| 00:00.09 | tripzero | and i think the omap3 has that? |
| 00:01.21 | TheXception | yes point is i tried cross-compiling hedgewars to n900, which needs the fpc-compiler using vfpv3 it ends up with SIGILL |
| 00:01.23 | *** join/#maemo david__ (~david@190.114.240.2) |
| 00:02.16 | tripzero | MNZ, that's fake |
| 00:02.22 | tripzero | i dont' know if i believe that |
| 00:02.29 | pupnik | how about porting nogravity to n900 |
| 00:02.52 | MNZ | tripzero, most people think it's fake :) I think it is as well |
| 00:02.54 | tripzero | n900 already supports nogravity if you throw it high enough |
| 00:03.14 | pupnik | it runs the version i compiled for n810 |
| 00:03.41 | pupnik | not happy compiled for n900 atm |
| 00:04.17 | TheXception | if i use soft-floating it crashes due to a bug in soft-floating emulation |
| 00:04.29 | tripzero | hmm |
| 00:04.52 | pupnik | hmm |
| 00:06.47 | *** join/#maemo crs (~crs@gentoo/user/crs) |
| 00:07.12 | TheXception | i did not found an official fpc package so i hope maybe just some bugs in current svn version of fpc |
| 00:07.29 | TheXception | *find |
| 00:11.12 | *** join/#maemo jpinx-eeepc (~johnp@ppp-124-121-249-160.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 00:12.30 | *** join/#maemo TiagoTiago (~TiagoTiag@201-95-187-91.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 00:12.36 | TiagoTiago | hi |
| 00:12.57 | MNZ | hola TiagoTiago |
| 00:13.27 | TiagoTiago | isn't the N900 supposed to be able to search and connect to other bt dewvices while connected to a bt headset? |
| 00:14.33 | TiagoTiago | hi MNZ, the solution that day was simply to uninstall the stufff it was listing as not installed properlly and then reinstall them one by one :) |
| 00:14.39 | *** join/#maemo appnss (~appnss@178.Red-88-8-92.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 00:15.20 | MNZ | TiagoTiago, I know :) it would just be a hassle as you'd find about them eventually |
| 00:15.56 | TiagoTiago | I think i might have messed up somthing with the bt of my N900, it fails to see many bt devices while connected to the headset, and OVI suite isn't finding it :( |
| 00:16.59 | TiagoTiago | btw, does it matter that the hostname and bt name start with 3 digits before getting to the first letter? |
| 00:20.06 | TiagoTiago | should i uninstall the thing about HFP profile? what about the dun tethering? |
| 00:23.23 | TiagoTiago | any idea? |
| 00:24.18 | *** join/#maemo jophish (~jophish@customer25952.100.kt.cust.t-mobile.co.uk) |
| 00:27.26 | TiagoTiago | wtf?! |
| 00:27.45 | TiagoTiago | OVOI suite thinks my N900 is my N73 o.O |
| 00:30.05 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B_ (~csb@89.243.42.210) |
| 00:33.31 | TiagoTiago | how do i remove devices from OVI suite? |
| 00:34.38 | TiagoTiago | nvm |
| 00:37.42 | TiagoTiago | ok, i'll be AFK for bit, bbs |
| 00:42.43 | *** join/#maemo b0tz` (~b0tz@c-68-39-142-229.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 00:47.22 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~fernando@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 00:48.53 | TiagoTiago | back |
| 00:49.29 | TiagoTiago | hm, it's not finding it :( |
| 00:53.47 | ShadSEC | SpeedEvil, how accurate would you say are the mah figures of your script? |
| 00:54.50 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: It depends. |
| 00:54.56 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: +-20% |
| 00:55.04 | SpeedEvil | But consistently off between phones. |
| 00:55.14 | ShadSEC | good enough |
| 00:55.29 | SpeedEvil | I need to actually measure the current flow out of the battery, and correlate |
| 00:55.47 | SpeedEvil | But I haven't had the energy to set it up. |
| 00:55.51 | ShadSEC | yeah, that would be the real test |
| 00:56.15 | SpeedEvil | I'm pondering hard opening up phone to add compass too. |
| 00:56.41 | ShadSEC | how do you plan to do that? |
| 00:57.01 | ShadSEC | iconnecting it to a free gpio or something? |
| 00:58.06 | SpeedEvil | http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=LSM303DLHTR-ND |
| 00:58.17 | SpeedEvil | Pull the accelerometer |
| 00:58.29 | SpeedEvil | Or wire in parallel |
| 00:58.51 | luke-jr | couldn't you emulate a compass w/ GPS + accelerometers? |
| 00:59.16 | ShadSEC | oh, so this one has accelerometer and compass |
| 00:59.45 | ShadSEC | luke, only if you keep walking |
| 01:00.11 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: no |
| 01:00.27 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: I want to be able to record pointing info from pics |
| 01:00.41 | luke-jr | ? |
| 01:00.42 | TiagoTiago | there is no way to use any of the exisiting radios to get some sort of directional data relative to the device's oritentation, is there? |
| 01:01.16 | ShadSEC | tiago, again, only some estimation of your direction while you are moving |
| 01:01.26 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: accelerometers can't detect rotation? |
| 01:01.30 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: no |
| 01:01.36 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: It detects 'down' |
| 01:01.37 | luke-jr | O.o |
| 01:01.48 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: You can't tell rotation about the down axis. |
| 01:02.00 | TiagoTiago | they only detect where is down and translational motion |
| 01:02.15 | luke-jr | even 2/ 2? |
| 01:02.18 | luke-jr | w/* |
| 01:02.22 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 01:02.25 | TiagoTiago | you need at least two vectors to get a rotation |
| 01:02.29 | SpeedEvil | To quote Blue Peter. |
| 01:02.35 | SpeedEvil | Here is an answer I prepared earlier. |
| 01:02.50 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals |
| 01:03.03 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Technical:Accelerometer_Fundamentals#What_two_three_axis_accelerometers_can_do |
| 01:03.19 | ShadSEC | swapping the chips will be a real challenge |
| 01:03.35 | SpeedEvil | Probably paralleling it. |
| 01:03.42 | SpeedEvil | It can go on any I2C bus. |
| 01:04.15 | ShadSEC | and there is enough space for both? |
| 01:04.23 | ShadSEC | inside |
| 01:04.31 | ShadSEC | it saw it all pretty tight |
| 01:04.37 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: It's a 5*5*1mm chip |
| 01:05.00 | ShadSEC | mmm |
| 01:06.24 | ShadSEC | it is a grear mod, for sure |
| 01:06.39 | ShadSEC | great |
| 01:06.42 | TiagoTiago | would 3 accelerometers beat the limitations of using two? |
| 01:07.40 | TiagoTiago | or the precision errors would still get in the way too much? |
| 01:08.20 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: no. |
| 01:08.32 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: well - in principle - three ideal accels would |
| 01:08.40 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: But in practice no. |
| 01:08.45 | SpeedEvil | As they are very inaccurate. |
| 01:08.57 | SpeedEvil | And there are good gyro chips, as well as compass chips. |
| 01:09.42 | SpeedEvil | Consider what 1cm drift on the acellerometer does to a rotation. |
| 01:09.43 | ShadSEC | SpeedEvil, a gyro is a prerequisite for video stabilization isnt it? |
| 01:09.44 | MNZ | off for the night. so long folks. |
| 01:09.51 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: no. |
| 01:09.58 | ShadSEC | it can be done with accels? |
| 01:10.09 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: you can do that basically using the same techniques as MPEG. |
| 01:10.14 | TiagoTiago | btw, instead of hacking the device's hardware directly, how about that idea i posted in TMO, attaching the additional hardware on the battery cover and communicating with the device via the SD slot with a cable that has the tip shaped like a microSD card? |
| 01:10.14 | *** join/#maemo fredrin (~user@cm-84.208.108.15.getinternet.no) |
| 01:10.14 | SpeedEvil | motion compensation. |
| 01:10.27 | ShadSEC | i dont mean postprocessing |
| 01:10.29 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: yes - I posted that ages ago. |
| 01:10.49 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: Or during the recording. |
| 01:11.01 | TiagoTiago | here? |
| 01:11.08 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 01:11.12 | ShadSEC | so then gyros/accels etc wouldnt add better stabilization? |
| 01:11.41 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking#MMC_card |
| 01:11.47 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: there is no direct link between the accels and the camera |
| 01:12.13 | *** join/#maemo fredrin (~Fredrik@cm-84.208.108.15.getinternet.no) |
| 01:12.24 | TiagoTiago | ah |
| 01:12.35 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: So you'd need to feed in shake compensation into the middle of the video chain. |
| 01:12.40 | ShadSEC | SpeedEvil, I mean something as that the fcamera guys have done |
| 01:12.52 | TiagoTiago | i though it would be called SDio instead |
| 01:12.55 | SpeedEvil | You can't compensate for shaking. |
| 01:13.00 | ShadSEC | why dont? |
| 01:13.09 | SpeedEvil | You can however detect when shaking is happening |
| 01:13.34 | *** join/#maemo fredrin (~Fredrik@cm-84.208.108.15.getinternet.no) |
| 01:13.38 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: because you can't translate between - with the existing accel - acelleration and rotation. |
| 01:13.41 | TiagoTiago | if you got enough processing power you could run a deconvolution in the raw frame to fix the motionblur |
| 01:13.42 | ShadSEC | isn't that what shaker filter does? |
| 01:13.50 | SpeedEvil | It depends how you're holding the cam. |
| 01:14.07 | SpeedEvil | AIUI shaker filter simply avoids taking pictures when it's detecting wobbling. |
| 01:14.08 | fredrin | hai |
| 01:14.19 | fredrin | :) are DAVE here? |
| 01:14.19 | ShadSEC | mmm, you mean theres no way to tell how the shaking is happening to tell the video processor |
| 01:14.22 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: To an extent yes. |
| 01:14.23 | pigeon | anyone here has sygic mobile map on their n900? |
| 01:14.29 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: basically |
| 01:14.36 | fredrin | SpeedEvil, yay |
| 01:14.38 | ShadSEC | a pity |
| 01:14.41 | ShadSEC | pitty |
| 01:14.44 | fredrin | does you FR still lives? |
| 01:14.45 | ShadSEC | i thought it was possible |
| 01:14.45 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: i think the codec runs on the DSP - so in principle you could recode it. |
| 01:15.02 | fredrin | DocScrutinizer, yarr |
| 01:15.33 | SpeedEvil | fredrin: I never had one. neo1973 only. And it's dismantled in preparation for recycling into a web-enabled-microwave-oven. |
| 01:15.47 | fredrin | kek |
| 01:16.16 | TiagoTiago | if i had to choose between a compass and a gyro, if the compass had a "framerate" at least as good as the gyro, no ghosting/lagging etc, i would go with the compass, it still only provides a direction, but combined with the accells i imagine it would be enough, and as a bonus it would provide absolute values instead of relative |
| 01:16.17 | ShadSEC | SpeedEvil, now thats going into an area I dont know much. But I get the point that it would be useless for deshaking :) |
| 01:17.01 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: Accel + gyro gives you an absolute direction. |
| 01:17.04 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: err |
| 01:17.08 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: Accell + magno |
| 01:17.29 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: though you need to play games with filters. |
| 01:17.40 | TiagoTiago | that's what i meant by compass, a 3d magnetometer |
| 01:17.43 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: And assume that there is no significant long-term accelleration |
| 01:18.03 | TiagoTiago | like going up in a rocket or skydiving? |
| 01:18.15 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 01:18.46 | TiagoTiago | oh, damn, going round and round in a car would provide constant acceleration.... |
| 01:18.57 | TiagoTiago | would also* |
| 01:19.04 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: not quite - unless you also rotate the device |
| 01:19.21 | SpeedEvil | But then you can put GPS in. |
| 01:19.36 | TiagoTiago | if you're inside the car as it is making donuts you will rotate witih it |
| 01:21.04 | fredrin | mmmm donuts |
| 01:21.34 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: But you can tell it's rotating, due to the compass. |
| 01:21.35 | TiagoTiago | if the N900 was inside one of those gyrostabilized ballcamerass in the nose of a stuntcopter then things would be different |
| 01:22.16 | ShadSEC | signal *angulation would be awesome integrating gps and magno |
| 01:23.06 | TiagoTiago | hm, yeah, but would rotation rate + imprecise GPS (itms usually between a few ameters to dozens of meters worong isn't it) be enough to correct for the centrifugue force? |
| 01:23.16 | ShadSEC | also it can take into account the position of the antenna relative to ground and use the little directivity it may have |
| 01:23.27 | ShadSEC | btw, I winder what the radiation patter of the phone is mmmmm |
| 01:24.05 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: You feed it all into a kalman filter. |
| 01:24.16 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: and out pops a position and orientation. |
| 01:24.33 | SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalman_filter |
| 01:24.53 | fredrin | what's the problem? Trying to get better rotation on the n900? |
| 01:25.00 | TiagoTiago | is there a way to trigger that dzt-dzdzdzt interference GSM devices cause in microfones and the like manually with the N900? |
| 01:25.18 | ShadSEC | trigger? |
| 01:25.27 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: send a SMS |
| 01:25.29 | TiagoTiago | yeah, make it happen at will |
| 01:25.32 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: Or toggle the modem |
| 01:25.36 | TiagoTiago | without paying for it |
| 01:25.39 | ShadSEC | phone call would be best |
| 01:25.47 | SpeedEvil | modem off/on |
| 01:25.50 | ShadSEC | or perhaps just reassociating |
| 01:25.52 | TiagoTiago | hm, switch to offline and back enough? |
| 01:26.11 | ShadSEC | i wonder if theres a dbus call to ask it for neighboring networks |
| 01:26.17 | ShadSEC | i think i saw one |
| 01:26.33 | SpeedEvil | no there isn't. |
| 01:26.40 | SpeedEvil | not for cel |
| 01:26.42 | SpeedEvil | cell |
| 01:26.45 | luke-jr | fredrin: the problem is N900 has *no* rotation right now |
| 01:26.50 | TiagoTiago | i once saw on youtube a video of the N900 booting up and way before the homescreens showed it interefeered with the mic |
| 01:27.08 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: modem is a completely seperate CPU |
| 01:27.08 | ShadSEC | btw, why would you want to trigger interference? |
| 01:27.18 | TiagoTiago | just for kicks |
| 01:27.18 | ShadSEC | its it not even that much interference anyways |
| 01:27.33 | ShadSEC | use a jammer :) |
| 01:27.46 | fredrin | n900 as a jammer? |
| 01:27.48 | fredrin | :) |
| 01:27.49 | ShadSEC | no |
| 01:28.18 | TiagoTiago | i wonder if i wrap the mic cable around if that would record the sound loud and clear.... |
| 01:28.47 | fredrin | luke-jr, and it is unsolvable? |
| 01:28.49 | TiagoTiago | i like that pattern GSM devices make, it's so recognizable..... |
| 01:29.06 | luke-jr | fredrin: apparently not without opening it up and putting in a compass |
| 01:29.11 | TiagoTiago | without addtional hardware yes |
| 01:29.20 | luke-jr | fredrin: N900 is too closed to be an effective jammer |
| 01:29.47 | fredrin | the Freerunner will work? |
| 01:29.58 | luke-jr | possibly, from my understanding |
| 01:30.13 | ShadSEC | luke-jr, you can control the gsm radio on freerunner? |
| 01:30.47 | luke-jr | ShadSEC: AFAIK, there is a WIP open-source radio firmware for FR |
| 01:30.59 | ShadSEC | interesting |
| 01:31.09 | luke-jr | it also supports some low-end non-smart phones |
| 01:31.18 | luke-jr | that go for like $10 on ebay |
| 01:31.21 | fredrin | luke-jr, url? |
| 01:31.27 | luke-jr | I forget |
| 01:31.30 | ShadSEC | but i have seen those WIP to control a radio from 2005 and nothing has come out yet :( |
| 01:31.32 | luke-jr | affiliated with OpenBTS I think |
| 01:31.39 | TiagoTiago | when the plastic case of your bluetooth dongle falls of and you're left with a circuitboard attached to an USB plug itm's probably sing you should buy a new one.... |
| 01:31.45 | luke-jr | ShadSEC: they can make voice calls to each other now |
| 01:31.52 | luke-jr | but not to other non-free phones IIRC |
| 01:32.05 | ShadSEC | yes, someone posted the news here a couple of days ago |
| 01:32.24 | luke-jr | that's not "nothing" |
| 01:32.26 | fredrin | luke-jr, ok |
| 01:32.39 | ShadSEC | luke, using a simulated cell tower or a real one? |
| 01:32.49 | luke-jr | ShadSEC: sounded like real to me |
| 01:33.14 | luke-jr | if they're doing it in the US, they can use the 900 MHz deregulated GSM band |
| 01:33.19 | ShadSEC | then its just the voice enconding what they must have not implemented |
| 01:33.24 | luke-jr | with the same power limitations as wifi |
| 01:33.38 | luke-jr | ShadSEC: possible. or an unknown bug in the protocol |
| 01:33.41 | ShadSEC | if the phone was communicating with a real tower the most dificult part is done |
| 01:33.49 | TiagoTiago | what could make OVI suite detec my N73 but not my N900 via bluetooth? |
| 01:34.48 | ShadSEC | I think that if they dont mentio otherwise, there were using a cell simulator |
| 01:35.13 | TiagoTiago | not p2p? |
| 01:35.22 | ShadSEC | or maybe they dont mention it because it is not that legal to connect unofficial terminals to gsm network |
| 01:36.51 | ShadSEC | there were very interesting information in www.thc.org ..... but it seems itsgone now |
| 01:37.11 | TiagoTiago | waybackmachine or google cache? |
| 01:39.37 | ShadSEC | this was main page for the project http://wiki.thc.org/gsm |
| 01:39.54 | SpeedEvil | http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/gsm/osmocom-bb/index.html |
| 01:39.56 | SpeedEvil | see that |
| 01:40.03 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: |
| 01:40.36 | ShadSEC | yes, i read it the other day |
| 01:41.22 | ShadSEC | this is the most interesting part: Andreas Eversberg has been quietly working on getting call control of Layer3 into a state where it can do all the signalling required for mobile-originated and mobile-terminated call. |
| 01:41.35 | ShadSEC | that's what i would like to see.... |
| 01:42.31 | SpeedEvil | not on n900. |
| 01:42.47 | SpeedEvil | It's in a seperate core that you can't touch. |
| 01:42.50 | ShadSEC | i know, but its also a field i am interested... |
| 01:43.12 | ShadSEC | n900 is great for other things, not that one |
| 01:43.46 | SpeedEvil | The fun thing is this is - basically - all - osmoom-bb - and related projects - you need to actually crack voice calls in near-real-time. |
| 01:43.52 | SpeedEvil | For GSM at least. |
| 01:44.12 | SpeedEvil | You would need a moderately-very more expensive radio reciever. |
| 01:44.27 | ShadSEC | that part is easy, the hardest part is the radio one |
| 01:44.53 | SpeedEvil | It's not very hard - it's simply very expensive. |
| 01:44.54 | ShadSEC | and also, correctly implementing the protocols, which are not fully described |
| 01:45.14 | ShadSEC | they were very near to it in 2005 using gnu radio |
| 01:45.28 | ShadSEC | but the project was abandoned |
| 01:45.32 | SpeedEvil | no it wasn't |
| 01:45.48 | SpeedEvil | http://openbts.sourceforge.net/ |
| 01:46.03 | ShadSEC | the broadband signaling was being decoded |
| 01:46.23 | TiagoTiago | who checks if the modem firmware is signed properlly? |
| 01:46.35 | SpeedEvil | The modem firmware. |
| 01:46.50 | TiagoTiago | it checks itself? |
| 01:46.54 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 01:47.02 | SpeedEvil | the modem is a whole different CPU |
| 01:47.23 | ShadSEC | that looks to me as a simulated cell |
| 01:47.28 | TiagoTiago | then what prevents someone from flashing a new firmware that is hadcoded to say it's signed? |
| 01:47.44 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: that's where the 2005 project went |
| 01:48.01 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: the firmware on the modem checks the signature of the next one. |
| 01:48.12 | ShadSEC | what happenned with the branches of gsm interception? :) |
| 01:48.32 | SpeedEvil | GSM interception is a required part of getting a GSM cell setup |
| 01:48.34 | TiagoTiago | oh, i see, the current one gets in the way of the reflashing |
| 01:49.29 | TiagoTiago | and with the N900 there is no way to reflash the modemfirmware without the current modem firmware havving a say about it? |
| 01:50.10 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 01:50.41 | TiagoTiago | what about somthing like a modchip tricking the current firmware into thinking it's seeing a signed firmware and the flash a non'signed firmware that does't block any reflashing? |
| 01:50.57 | TiagoTiago | and then* |
| 01:51.17 | SpeedEvil | you can in principle do all sorts of stuff. |
| 01:51.29 | SpeedEvil | But then you're left with hacking a non-documented interface. |
| 01:51.34 | SpeedEvil | Which isn't so easy. |
| 01:51.36 | *** join/#maemo AlexG (~AlexG@114.80.91.4) |
| 01:52.03 | ShadSEC | SpeedEvil, so the project was completed |
| 01:52.27 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: no - openbts has some features that need finished off and polished. |
| 01:52.32 | TiagoTiago | checking the hardware it would be possible to start from scratch (itms an arm processor, the memory is that type etc) ? |
| 01:52.41 | TiagoTiago | erm |
| 01:52.55 | SpeedEvil | The RF interface is undocumented |
| 01:53.03 | TiagoTiago | chedcking ... wouldn't it be possible to build it from scratch?* |
| 01:53.14 | SpeedEvil | what? |
| 01:53.36 | SpeedEvil | you can't get the parts. And if you can they're not documented. |
| 01:53.42 | SpeedEvil | You have to use general purpose stuff. |
| 01:54.23 | TiagoTiago | even the components used aren't documented and hidden under some superglue seal? |
| 01:55.52 | TiagoTiago | if not, assuming there is enough components of each type necessary to buuld a basic working firmware, i imagine you would be able to start poking(in the emtaforical sense) the components and reverse engineer their API, no? |
| 01:56.21 | SpeedEvil | In princple. |
| 01:56.37 | johnx | TiagoTiago: how many hardware interfaces have you reverse engineered? |
| 01:56.37 | SpeedEvil | you can hack the modem - but it's not a very interesting result. |
| 01:56.57 | SpeedEvil | It's man-months of effort at best. |
| 01:57.07 | SpeedEvil | Assuming you start out knowing the GSM/3G protocols |
| 01:57.26 | *** join/#maemo johnxx (~john@c-76-104-225-147.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 01:58.20 | TiagoTiago | none with electricity involved, i've read about how people did stuff with things like videogame consoles, telephone networks etc |
| 01:58.30 | TiagoTiago | but i've read* |
| 01:59.06 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@202.154.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 01:59.16 | *** join/#maemo kerute (~kerute@kerunix.com) |
| 02:00.35 | *** join/#maemo TermanaN900 (~user@123-3-167-67.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 02:01.41 | SpeedEvil | Generally the process starts out with reading several thousand page datasheets. |
| 02:01.55 | TermanaN900 | yello |
| 02:02.06 | johnxx | TermanaN900, allo |
| 02:02.13 | TiagoTiago | not poking things and seeing how they react? |
| 02:02.33 | TiagoTiago | holla |
| 02:02.54 | johnxx | TiagoTiago, if there's documentation, you use it |
| 02:03.19 | johnxx | but you'll still have to go through a ton of random guessing in many cases |
| 02:04.40 | johnxx | So, I tuned in late to the conversation. What do you want to do again? |
| 02:05.07 | TiagoTiago | that's usually what happens in reverse engineering, no? |
| 02:05.22 | CreamyG | did u guys see that hdcp master key? |
| 02:05.37 | johnxx | CreamyG, yup. |
| 02:05.43 | ShadSEC | Tiago, it IS possible, it is just a great deal of work |
| 02:06.02 | CreamyG | i bet someone hacked it from intel, if they made it |
| 02:06.13 | CreamyG | i wish it was microsoft. i'd lol more |
| 02:06.25 | CreamyG | or sony |
| 02:06.34 | *** join/#maemo range (ralph@oemcomputer.oerks.de) |
| 02:07.04 | sevard | So I'm experimenting with video chat on my n810. I have gizmo5 installed and registered on my n810 and Ekiga registered with an antisip account on my laptop. My laptop can call my n810 just fine and pass audio, but when the call is made the n810's gizmo5 call screen shows a camera with a line through it. Anyone have any idea of gizmo5 disabled h264 pass through for some reason? |
| 02:07.19 | TiagoTiago | i was just commenting, they were talking about freerunner devices talking to eachother wihth a simulated cell i think, and someone asked about doing somthing like that withh the N900 and then another person said it wouldm"t be possible becaause the firmware is closed and the chip chwck for signature before allowing a new reflash |
| 02:07.28 | *** join/#maemo scp1 (~dmz@s83-177-28-44.cust.tele2.se) |
| 02:07.32 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 02:07.46 | *** join/#maemo otep_ (~quassel@AP-203.167.31.157.sysads.com) |
| 02:07.59 | SpeedEvil | FR devices - the baseband - calypso - docs - got leaked |
| 02:08.01 | johnxx | TiagoTiago, and you're going to start a project to hack it? |
| 02:08.03 | ShadSEC | possible yes, probable no |
| 02:08.05 | CreamyG | hmm if they are figuring out how to do it in nitdroid it's probably possible |
| 02:08.07 | TiagoTiago | i wish |
| 02:08.17 | CreamyG | unless it is locked to a certain protocol |
| 02:08.20 | johnxx | TiagoTiago, what's stopping you? |
| 02:09.02 | TiagoTiago | lack of knowledge, tools and willpower |
| 02:09.06 | CreamyG | i don't want to do any programming now, i'm lazy too |
| 02:09.12 | CreamyG | or maybe stoned :D |
| 02:09.28 | CreamyG | halo sounds like more fun |
| 02:09.59 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 02:10.13 | CreamyG | trying to understand someone else's code is hard for me, and learning new languages is not fun either |
| 02:10.30 | johnxx | TiagoTiago, 1) Everyone lacks knowledge at some point, 2) the tools are probably not that expensive 3) Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought |
| 02:11.06 | pigeon | hmm, mm9 on the n900 is working with the gps properly, but mm10 is not :\ |
| 02:11.07 | CreamyG | it's probably worse to reverse engineer an api than do pointer math so i'm not helping :P |
| 02:11.28 | TiagoTiago | i got the will but not the willpower, kinda the same thing with doing stretches and exercizing dailly |
| 02:11.52 | ShadSEC | Willpower is probably the most important factor on the equation.... if someones life depended on it, probably he would get it done somehow |
| 02:12.06 | TiagoTiago | yeah |
| 02:12.11 | johnxx | if I was getting paid enough, I could probably learn |
| 02:12.16 | CreamyG | haha. quit your job and code to afford food |
| 02:12.20 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 02:12.24 | johnxx | but it would not be a small number ... |
| 02:12.26 | ShadSEC | perhaps we should threat tiago's life to have it done :P |
| 02:12.37 | TiagoTiago | "i'll hack for food" Xp |
| 02:12.39 | johnxx | ShadSEC, seen fight club? :D |
| 02:12.45 | SpeedEvil | http://qkwv.com/weight.gif - My n900 diet. |
| 02:13.02 | CreamyG | yeah i have visualroute, i'm sending a hitman to your isp to get you |
| 02:13.22 | SpeedEvil | (I subsidised purchase of n900 from food budget, with the aid of thinking about cheap tasty meals I could prepare in bulk) |
| 02:13.24 | ShadSEC | yeah |
| 02:13.29 | ShadSEC | johnxx |
| 02:13.47 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 02:14.33 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@a88-115-26-73.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 02:14.33 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@redhat/pcfe) |
| 02:15.38 | johnxx | SpeedEvil, heh. I'm taking the budget for a nice quad-core setup out of the money I used to spend going out to lunch. haven't found out it's helping me lose weight though |
| 02:15.48 | GeneralAntilles | Ha |
| 02:15.53 | GeneralAntilles | Lunches out are so damn expensive. |
| 02:17.18 | *** join/#maemo tchan1 (~tchan@c-69-243-144-70.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 02:18.03 | johnxx | Yeah, I thought I was doing a good job of not spending too much on lunch, but making it myself is still hugely cheaper |
| 02:18.36 | johnxx | plus it's easy since we have a toster oven at work. I don't even have to make my lunch in advance :> |
| 02:19.48 | *** join/#maemo g55 (~g55@rgnb-5d87c017.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 02:21.37 | ShadSEC | AGPS position is calculated by the phone, or is it obteined from the network? |
| 02:21.58 | johnxx | errr, yes? |
| 02:22.07 | *** join/#maemo DaveR53 (~Dave@195.153.0.189) |
| 02:22.30 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: by the phone - pretty much |
| 02:22.35 | ShadSEC | I mean, it gathers information about signal strenght and position of the cells and calculates the position, or it sends that information to the apgs server and gets a reply back? |
| 02:22.44 | *** join/#maemo DangerMaus (~eeeeeeeee@tuxhacker/loft306) |
| 02:22.45 | SpeedEvil | It has a 'real' GPS too |
| 02:23.10 | ShadSEC | yep, but I want to know how do it get information about neighboring cells and its lat/lon |
| 02:23.26 | ShadSEC | but first i need to know, if it does, or not |
| 02:23.28 | johnxx | the phone is 'assisted' in getting a GPS fix by being given data about which satellites to look for, IIRC |
| 02:24.05 | johnxx | "ephemeris data" (again, IIRC) |
| 02:24.16 | ShadSEC | mm, so it sends just the information about one cell so that according to that rough position it is updated with ephemeris data fr that position? is that how it works? |
| 02:24.42 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: you don't. |
| 02:25.03 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: The AGPS bits are handled largely inside themodem. It does not export cell location. |
| 02:25.14 | ShadSEC | oh |
| 02:25.15 | SpeedEvil | The GPS is connected to the modem CPU |
| 02:25.33 | ShadSEC | so the cell tower provides that information, but it is just not accesible from so |
| 02:26.01 | SpeedEvil | basically, yes. |
| 02:26.10 | ShadSEC | ok, another wall then... thx |
| 02:26.10 | SpeedEvil | Though there are serveral modes for GPS |
| 02:26.20 | SpeedEvil | Some ofwhich use cell position, some do not |
| 02:26.31 | ShadSEC | yes |
| 02:26.53 | ShadSEC | but i was wondering about if it was possible to get some additional information about te cel |
| 02:26.56 | ShadSEC | cell ower |
| 02:29.24 | SpeedEvil | No. There isan openbug requestingthis - but it looks unlikely it's goinganywhere. |
| 02:31.14 | *** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
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| 02:31.37 | *** join/#maemo scp1 (~dmz@unaffiliated/scp1) |
| 02:34.40 | ShadSEC | if they could fix it in software, it is in theory accesible..... |
| 02:34.59 | zeltak | hya guys..sending back the n900 to nokia usa tomrrow due to I/O errors in flash...any tips on how to make sure those idiots actually fix it and not just send it back saying its all well? :) |
| 02:35.32 | TiagoTiago | get a new one? |
| 02:35.45 | zeltak | heheh yeah apart from thty :) |
| 02:35.48 | zeltak | *that |
| 02:35.48 | *** join/#maemo Jucato (~Jucato@kde/developer/jucato) |
| 02:36.03 | johnxx | zeltak, write to the flash until the rest of it is obviously dead? |
| 02:36.07 | ShadSEC | put it inthe microwave for a minute before sending it to them :P |
| 02:36.31 | ShadSEC | btw, do the tech service nowadays identify that damage? |
| 02:36.34 | TiagoTiago | i mean, have them send you a new one instead of fixing the one you sent them |
| 02:37.00 | johnxx | TiagoTiago, how do you "have them send [him] a new one"? |
| 02:37.12 | ShadSEC | a minute is probably too much time in the microwave |
| 02:37.21 | ShadSEC | perhaps 10 seconds would be enough |
| 02:37.29 | johnxx | or a stun gun / taser ... |
| 02:37.43 | zeltak | yeah i also want to know :) but seriously now..i mean i reflashed today before sending it tomorrow and im affraid the tech guy looking at it would just not notice anything wrong |
| 02:37.58 | TiagoTiago | i guess that is kinda what he was askiing, lol, i didn't think it tthru all that much |
| 02:38.04 | zeltak | it is working but i get loads of I/O errors in the log and freezes a few times a day |
| 02:38.04 | ShadSEC | I was VERY serious |
| 02:38.32 | TiagoTiago | does warranty covers running over it with your car? |
| 02:38.38 | zeltak | ShadSEC: intresting idea but its not all that frakked in willing to risk the warrenty |
| 02:38.40 | ShadSEC | physical damage |
| 02:38.50 | ShadSEC | but how would they notice the microwave thing? |
| 02:39.03 | TiagoTiago | all the burnmarks? |
| 02:39.09 | ShadSEC | a few seconds? |
| 02:39.21 | DangerMaus | so you were hit by lightning |
| 02:39.22 | TiagoTiago | have you seen what happens to a cd? |
| 02:39.30 | johnxx | ShadSEC, depends on if the LCD suffered damage |
| 02:39.31 | ShadSEC | yes, but its different |
| 02:39.52 | johnxx | ... or if someone from Nokia was hanging out on this channel ... |
| 02:39.55 | zeltak | i like the creative ideas but seriously has any one have any experience with nokia usa tech lab? |
| 02:40.02 | TiagoTiago | how different? a bunch of plastic and coonducti/e metal bunched up together |
| 02:40.19 | ShadSEC | johnx, yes, thats why a minute should be too much... but a few secnds should affect the lcd... although I AM NOT SURE. |
| 02:40.55 | ShadSEC | johnx, yeah, lets then reject all phones just in case the used the old microwave trick :P |
| 02:41.02 | johnxx | zeltak, afraid not. I guess all you can do is clearly explain the situation. maybe include a note about how to make it freeze in the box? |
| 02:41.12 | zeltak | yup johnxx did that.. |
| 02:41.17 | DangerMaus | haha some idiot in a carwash opens door to get something off windsheild and looses door |
| 02:41.22 | ShadSEC | yep, and if they fail, next time remember... microwave :P |
| 02:41.22 | zeltak | i hope the idiot that opens it sees it lol |
| 02:41.35 | johnxx | zeltak, is it the emmc or the rootfs/initfs flash? |
| 02:41.40 | zeltak | ShadSEC: ill keep that in mind ;-) |
| 02:41.45 | zeltak | emmc |
| 02:41.46 | TiagoTiago | what about water damage? |
| 02:42.26 | DangerMaus | errr... there is prob a sticker for that |
| 02:42.49 | johnxx | zeltak, easy then. "if you fill the card with movies the device will crash. please make it not do that. KTHX." Keep the repro instructions simple ;) |
| 02:42.50 | ShadSEC | what about you tell them you lost it, maybe they will send you a new one? uhhh, maybe not, but its not worse than watering it :P |
| 02:43.02 | *** join/#maemo mardi (~mardi@41.94.2.81.in-addr.arpa) |
| 02:43.03 | TiagoTiago | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chOfSxh9Yq4 <f why itms a bad idea to put a clellphone in the microwave |
| 02:43.44 | zeltak | heheh johnxx i went along that line ..even attached a log output..hope the tech guy is not deadbrain |
| 02:44.18 | ShadSEC | lol |
| 02:45.04 | johnxx | zeltak, I mean, as long as you can repro it by copying files from a windows machine to the emmc, I'd *hope* that they'd realize the problem. |
| 02:45.35 | zeltak | lets hope so...k thx for the tips and microwave ideads guys.. nighty night |
| 02:45.59 | TiagoTiago | good luck |
| 02:46.01 | johnxx | zeltak, best of luck. tell us how it turns out |
| 02:46.10 | *** part/#maemo scp1 (~dmz@unaffiliated/scp1) |
| 02:46.15 | zeltak | thx..sure will keep u posted |
| 02:48.29 | ShadSEC | good luck zeltak,and if you ever do the microwave thing, stop it after the first flash! ;) |
| 02:49.00 | TiagoTiago | now for real http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_z1QcytwsA |
| 02:51.00 | ShadSEC | yeah, that one is real |
| 02:51.26 | ShadSEC | the burns happen much more later than the damage to flash/ etc... |
| 02:51.48 | ShadSEC | first flash, stop it, and better to use te microwave at lw power |
| 02:52.32 | ShadSEC | I will try with an old usb stick and see |
| 02:53.47 | TermanaN900 | Ok, be truthful. Who is it on /g/ with an N8x0 with 54 days of uptime? :P |
| 02:56.43 | *** join/#maemo kthomas (~kthomas@77.127.64.172) |
| 02:56.48 | TiagoTiago | would be fun to have a call going on, or perhaps some live videofrom inside |
| 02:57.53 | ShadSEC | the call would be ended at very moment you press the power on button on the microave |
| 02:58.03 | ShadSEC | in fact, the moment you put it inside |
| 02:58.23 | ShadSEC | if it is isolated for 2400mhz it is for anything below |
| 02:58.38 | TiagoTiago | microwave ovens shield cellphone frequencies? |
| 02:58.48 | ShadSEC | it uses 2400 |
| 02:58.58 | ShadSEC | and it shields it very well |
| 02:59.04 | TiagoTiago | i see |
| 02:59.05 | ShadSEC | so it shields any frequencies below too |
| 02:59.19 | ShadSEC | it also probably shields more much than 2400 |
| 02:59.35 | ShadSEC | YOu can do that test |
| 02:59.40 | ShadSEC | call your cellphone and put it inside |
| 03:00.03 | ShadSEC | i would be very surprised if it has signal |
| 03:00.32 | *** join/#maemo dockane (~dockane@dsdf-4d0a0be4.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 03:02.02 | ShadSEC | although now that I think 900mhz has some exceptional penetration ability |
| 03:03.02 | luke-jr | 900mhz isn't used by cell phones here |
| 03:03.04 | *** join/#maemo DangerMaus_ (~N900@m485e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 03:03.06 | luke-jr | it's deregulated/free-for-all |
| 03:03.08 | luke-jr | :p |
| 03:03.15 | ShadSEC | you guys are lucky |
| 03:03.20 | ShadSEC | thats the best frequency |
| 03:03.23 | luke-jr | heh |
| 03:03.31 | luke-jr | except we're only allowed like 5 mile radius of xmit power |
| 03:03.33 | luke-jr | â¹ |
| 03:03.38 | ShadSEC | I have some ricochet modems... that's range and penetration |
| 03:03.45 | ShadSEC | they use 900mhz |
| 03:04.21 | pigeon | ah, problem solved, upgrade to the newer MM10. |
| 03:04.23 | ShadSEC | also they use 1WATT, ferquency hopping, |
| 03:04.24 | *** join/#maemo Suiseiseki (~desu@wikipedia/Antonio-Lopez) |
| 03:09.47 | DangerMaus_ | crap heard a pop and my eeepc power brick is dead not even a blinking light |
| 03:10.12 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@122.212.45.242) |
| 03:10.18 | TiagoTiago | did you microwave it? |
| 03:10.35 | DangerMaus_ | nope |
| 03:10.47 | DangerMaus_ | plugged it ti the unit |
| 03:11.28 | TiagoTiago | was it set to 110v and plugged in a 220v wallsocket? |
| 03:11.36 | DangerMaus_ | i geuss this is happining on a mass scale them dieing |
| 03:12.08 | DangerMaus_ | it auto chooses but its all 110 here |
| 03:13.38 | TiagoTiago | any power oscilations or spikes latelly? |
| 03:14.25 | TiagoTiago | also, was it plugged togther with a bunch of other things in the same wallsocket? |
| 03:14.37 | DangerMaus_ | im going back to bed my 770 no enough hdd to update bad njght |
| 03:14.50 | TiagoTiago | :( |
| 03:15.09 | DangerMaus_ | nothing to cause it the light came on plugged it to eee and pop |
| 03:15.18 | TiagoTiago | :( |
| 03:15.34 | TiagoTiago | perhaps it was a bug, in the original sense |
| 03:15.42 | DangerMaus_ | goet ahold of asus in morn rma it |
| 03:15.54 | TiagoTiago | good luck |
| 03:16.00 | *** join/#maemo raster (raster@enlightenment/developer/raster) |
| 03:16.17 | DangerMaus_ | ive read alot of rma.s of the brick on google |
| 03:16.28 | TiagoTiago | oh |
| 03:17.30 | DangerMaus_ | geuss im getting an igo unervsrsal brick |
| 03:17.48 | DangerMaus_ | till asus can get to it |
| 03:19.23 | DangerMaus_ | tiago any ideas on a bt kb not working anymore with the n900? |
| 03:20.15 | TiagoTiago | i'm having bt issues with my N900 too, not the same thing nut also with bt, i dunno how to solve |
| 03:20.46 | *** join/#maemo shinkamui (~KamN900@ip68-11-94-155.no.no.cox.net) |
| 03:21.03 | DangerMaus_ | what you having issues with everythimg else bt works here |
| 03:22.40 | TiagoTiago | OVI suite isn't seeing the N900 (but sees my N73), and sometmes, specially when my bt headset is connected, it won't find many devices it finds when the headset isn't connected |
| 03:22.49 | *** join/#maemo ZZzzZzzz_ (~ZZzzZzzz@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-21-207.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 03:24.02 | DangerMaus_ | havent played with a headset yet... |
| 03:25.02 | TiagoTiago | disconect any bt device from it and try again going straight to th e keyboard |
| 03:25.30 | DangerMaus_ | but i got it hooked to eee as modem bt and to gps reciever at the same time wi no issue |
| 03:25.31 | TiagoTiago | btw, doesn't the N900 nned you to install somthing to work with HID devices? |
| 03:26.28 | DangerMaus_ | i thought it was all bt outta the box unless something changedd with the update |
| 03:26.39 | DangerMaus_ | it used to work |
| 03:27.32 | TiagoTiago | dunno then |
| 03:28.54 | DangerMaus_ | and i dont think this one is hid but could be a module/ kernel thing |
| 03:29.07 | DangerMaus_ | if it is |
| 03:31.58 | DangerMaus_ | jrite now using the bt kb on the 770 bt through the 900 |
| 03:32.10 | DangerMaus_ | the eee is dead |
| 03:32.30 | DangerMaus_ | this is lkilling me |
| 03:34.38 | pupnik | watches |
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| 03:44.48 | johnxx | DangerMaus_, the PS killed the eee itself? |
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| 03:56.49 | ShadSEC | signal strenght drops from quality 100 and rssi -81 outside the microwave to quality 60 rssi -92 inside :) |
| 03:57.15 | ShadSEC | and wifi is completely killed |
| 03:57.30 | ShadSEC | just another absurd test |
| 03:57.48 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 03:57.55 | johnxx | "wifi is completely killed" ha! you better hope so |
| 03:58.10 | johnxx | otherwise your microwave would cook you while you stood there |
| 03:58.49 | ShadSEC | I was suppossed to check the values from remote ssh |
| 03:58.58 | ShadSEC | not surprisingly that wasnt possible :P |
| 03:59.09 | TiagoTiago | bluetooth aslo goes away, no? |
| 03:59.22 | ShadSEC | of course |
| 03:59.28 | johnxx | again "it better" :) |
| 03:59.51 | ShadSEC | but see how gsm is not COMPLETELY killed |
| 03:59.59 | johnxx | no surprise |
| 04:00.09 | ShadSEC | probably not usable for phone call though |
| 04:00.11 | TiagoTiago | what band are you using? |
| 04:00.21 | ShadSEC | but maybe an sms might come trough |
| 04:00.27 | TiagoTiago | try calling with the door shut and see if it rings? |
| 04:00.32 | ShadSEC | 2g in this test |
| 04:00.38 | johnxx | well, he's not using 2.4GHz :) |
| 04:00.46 | TiagoTiago | heh |
| 04:00.53 | ShadSEC | i dont have another phone heer |
| 04:00.58 | TiagoTiago | 2g uses lots of bands across the world |
| 04:00.59 | ShadSEC | why dont you try? :) |
| 04:01.12 | ShadSEC | probably 1.900 i dnt know |
| 04:01.24 | TiagoTiago | i don't think i can make an international call without paying, dunno |
| 04:01.35 | ShadSEC | our prividers uses several different ranges of frequency |
| 04:01.54 | ShadSEC | i mean you put your phone in your microwave and call it with another phone you might have there |
| 04:02.08 | TiagoTiago | over here each carrier uses one or two bands alone |
| 04:02.09 | TiagoTiago | ah |
| 04:02.37 | TiagoTiago | people are sleeping right now, i!l try to remember running this test tomorrow |
| 04:02.55 | luke-jr | 2G and 3G require each provider to have independent bands, correct? |
| 04:03.00 | luke-jr | is that a 4G limitation too? |
| 04:03.01 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@122.212.45.242) |
| 04:03.06 | TiagoTiago | really? |
| 04:03.11 | ShadSEC | i donno |
| 04:03.18 | johnxx | luke-jr, define "independent bands" |
| 04:03.29 | TiagoTiago | i thought they could all work togther if bureucracy wasn't in the way |
| 04:03.51 | luke-jr | johnxx: eg, ProviderA and ProviderB can't both have towers using the same 900 MHz band in teh same area? |
| 04:04.11 | TiagoTiago | the network might need some buffing up to handl the traffic squeezed in a single band though |
| 04:04.24 | TiagoTiago | but i' no expert |
| 04:04.50 | johnxx | luke-jr, huh. I hadn't thought of that, but uhm, I can't see how that would work in the EU, where there are 2 2G bands and n providers where n>2 |
| 04:06.06 | luke-jr | hmm |
| 04:06.16 | luke-jr | they all have independent towers? |
| 04:06.25 | luke-jr | or maybe they all share? |
| 04:06.56 | ShadSEC | this page is very interesting : https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/wiki/index.php?CSD%20services&id=1106&type=g |
| 04:07.03 | *** join/#maemo johnsu01` (~user@fencepost.gnu.org) |
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| 04:07.08 | johnxx | luke-jr, sooo, I'm not saying you're wrong, but can you cite your source? |
| 04:07.13 | ShadSEC | they share |
| 04:07.23 | ShadSEC | share the bands, and even the towers |
| 04:07.43 | *** join/#maemo ohwhyme (~ohwhyme@81-178-200-200.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 04:07.47 | ShadSEC | thus i donno what band I a connected to right now |
| 04:08.20 | TiagoTiago | somthing annoying over here is there is one carrier that stuck with an old techlogy for sometime while thwe others moved to GSM, then when that carrier finally moved to GSM the bansds commonly used by GSM had all been bought already, so gsm devices had to be made specfificly for their band, and with that they managed to have devices they sell be locked to ythe carrier while technicly having no lock in place |
| 04:09.02 | DangerMaus_ | hehe |
| 04:09.35 | ShadSEC | com.nokia.phone.SIM <- this one in particular soudns VERY interesting |
| 04:09.42 | johnxx | TiagoTiago, we have 4 major carriers here, and essentially they're all incompatible with each other in terms of phones (2 can share 2G phones) |
| 04:10.21 | *** join/#maemo AlexGiss (~AlexGiss@114.80.91.4) |
| 04:12.58 | TiagoTiago | this whole mess is really annying, what's the point of being abl e to slip your sim in another device, or change the sim of your device, if each carrier is imcompatible with the other? |
| 04:14.01 | TiagoTiago | it only works as intended if you got a multiband device with the right bands |
| 04:15.09 | johnxx | the point is that carriers are motivated by keeping customers, so it's in their best interest to make moving to another carrier difficult |
| 04:15.14 | johnxx | it's the free market at work :D |
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| 04:16.11 | TiagoTiago | that's actually them twisting the market to make it less free |
| 04:16.42 | johnxx | and *that* depends on who you ask :) |
| 04:17.40 | TiagoTiago | if they are all bad just the same and work to keep that as the statusquo, the consumer gets screwed |
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| 04:18.05 | DangerMaus_ | shoots palm hid bt kb... what got borked with that last os uoppdate? |
| 04:18.50 | GAN900 | johnxx, no, that's a heavily regulated market at work. ;) |
| 04:19.23 | TiagoTiago | IMO there are many situations where if comapnies stopped being selfish assholes they would attract lots more customers, so much that they would profit even more than now even if profit margins got reduced |
| 04:19.24 | GAN900 | There's very little to do with the free market about the telecommunications industry. |
| 04:19.34 | TiagoTiago | DangerMaus_, what update? |
| 04:19.44 | johnxx | GAN900, carrier lock-in is a result of regulation? |
| 04:20.24 | GAN900 | johnxx, the make-up of the telecommunications industry is partially a product of government interference in the market. |
| 04:20.35 | DangerMaus_ | long time ago |
| 04:20.42 | GAN900 | Look at the regulations and taxes involved. |
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| 04:21.14 | GAN900 | Can anybody AFFORD to compete with companies like AT&T and Verizon with that overhead? |
| 04:21.37 | DangerMaus_ | when i orrigionaly got the 900 last thanksgiving the bt kb worked after the update im thinking it didnt |
| 04:21.44 | johnxx | GAN900, not after the US lets them merge into behemoths and doesn't make any provisions for interoperability |
| 04:22.01 | GAN900 | It's the worst of both worlds, too regulated to allow real competition, not regulated enough to keep them in line. |
| 04:22.11 | johnxx | I'll agree to that |
| 04:22.31 | GAN900 | johnxx, this is not a valid argument against free market capitalism, however. :) |
| 04:23.09 | asj | GAN900: a duopolly is an argument that it's not a free market nor capitalist |
| 04:24.07 | johnxx | GAN900, we need a bit of regulation to make sure that we have enough players in the game to get any benefit though |
| 04:25.00 | GAN900 | johnxx, given the lack of real data on true free markets, I don't know that you can assert that. |
| 04:25.22 | GAN900 | Natural monopolies are one of the weird areas in free market systems, though. |
| 04:25.51 | GAN900 | The problem is that finding a good balance on regulations is basically impossible. |
| 04:26.12 | johnxx | which is why we should give up and just let the companies run things! yay! |
| 04:26.12 | GAN900 | Since mostly it results in the worst of both. |
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| 04:26.23 | asj | bullshit |
| 04:26.31 | TiagoTiago | rebooted :( |
| 04:27.01 | GAN900 | johnxx, right, that's not a statement likely to lead to productive discussion. |
| 04:27.05 | GAN900 | So goodnight. |
| 04:27.23 | johnxx | GAN900, then we need to experiment more. lots of impossible things have been become commonplace to keep experimenting |
| 04:28.15 | johnxx | GAN900, sorry. didn't mean to troll. Just a bit of sarcasm meant to draw out a counter-proposal |
| 04:29.34 | TiagoTiago | brb |
| 04:32.02 | TiagoTiago | back |
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| 04:35.58 | luke-jr | why worry about a free market? |
| 04:36.07 | luke-jr | what does that accomplish? |
| 04:37.05 | TiagoTiago | free market can go good, but it also can kinda selfdestruct |
| 04:38.37 | TiagoTiago | usually it goes bad when people are selfish assholes, stubborn or simply stupid |
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| 04:39.32 | TiagoTiago | there is still lots to be fixed in mankind |
| 04:40.48 | luke-jr | people are naturally selfish, stubborn, and stupid |
| 04:40.53 | luke-jr | sounds like a broken-by-design system |
| 04:40.59 | TiagoTiago | heh |
| 04:42.12 | TiagoTiago | i dunno if itms somthing with the culture or genes or a mix, but indeed humans often are like that |
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| 04:43.46 | TiagoTiago | like with democracy, it would work with ideal people, but with real people there is lots that can go wrong, and yet ther isn't anything better we can choose |
| 04:44.43 | luke-jr | it's the fallen nature of man after eating the stupid fig |
| 04:45.09 | luke-jr | with ideal people, anarchy would work. or socialism. or anything really. |
| 04:45.33 | luke-jr | and only a fool would choose democracy. with man's nature, democracy is the *worst* possible system |
| 04:45.40 | luke-jr | it quickly becomes tyranny |
| 04:46.09 | luke-jr | monarchy is the best choice IMO |
| 04:46.11 | TiagoTiago | IMO it's more dangerous to give power to a random few than to the masses |
| 04:47.17 | luke-jr | masses have a 100% certainty to be imperfect. |
| 04:47.26 | luke-jr | a single leader has the best probability to lead well |
| 04:48.47 | TiagoTiago | there are way more people that if given absolute power would fuck things royally than those that would do a reasonable job, masses are stupid, but usually at their worst they are still above than what things could be if only one or a little few random people were n power |
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| 04:50.39 | TiagoTiago | democracy kinda balances the power of the masses with the power of a few, at least in theory; it lets a fewbe in poewer but at the same time has the masses as abackup ifn case those in power mess up |
| 04:51.09 | luke-jr | that's why you make sure the Monarch is qualified :P |
| 04:51.46 | TiagoTiago | a meritocratic monarchy? |
| 04:51.52 | luke-jr | sure |
| 04:52.07 | luke-jr | and the Monarch can judge his own successor, as Monarch :p |
| 04:52.16 | luke-jr | only goes wrong if the Monarch is tricked, or becomes corrupt |
| 04:52.48 | luke-jr | next step is to divide the nations into tiny pieces, and give them each autonomy |
| 04:52.50 | TiagoTiago | it would still be good to have a way to cut the process in case the choice for monarch was mistaken |
| 04:52.57 | luke-jr | then when one screws up, it's not the end of the world :p |
| 04:53.23 | luke-jr | if a monarch becomes corrupt, the neighboring monarchies declare war |
| 04:53.24 | luke-jr | ⺠|
| 04:53.54 | TiagoTiago | and how is that better than the people impeaching the monarch? |
| 04:54.01 | luke-jr | that's rebellion |
| 04:54.09 | luke-jr | which is immoral |
| 04:54.20 | TiagoTiago | not if itms somthing institutionalized etc |
| 04:54.22 | luke-jr | people have no right to judge their ruler |
| 04:54.34 | luke-jr | then you effectively have a slow democracy |
| 04:54.38 | TiagoTiago | absolute power corrupts absolutly |
| 04:54.45 | luke-jr | because the ruler needs to appease the masses |
| 04:55.09 | luke-jr | rebellion isn't the only limit to power |
| 04:55.18 | luke-jr | disobedience to evil commands is legitimate |
| 04:55.42 | luke-jr | and all nations are of course subject to the Church's higher authority |
| 04:55.47 | pigeon | interesting, the contacts app on the n900 crashes everytime whenever i press a key when choosing the region/country. |
| 04:56.08 | TiagoTiago | but who is to judge what is and what isn't an evil command? |
| 04:56.15 | TiagoTiago | church?! |
| 04:56.25 | pigeon | or in fact, it crashes if i select any country from the list. |
| 04:56.25 | TiagoTiago | they also are severelly messed up |
| 04:56.32 | luke-jr | TiagoTiago: the Church teaches morality, of course, and the local bishops are a good place to apply it |
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| 04:56.40 | luke-jr | the Church is infallible. |
| 04:56.52 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: welcome to politics 101 |
| 04:57.02 | slonopotamus | aye |
| 04:57.15 | TiagoTiago | only an ideal church, that, like ideal people, is most improbable |
| 04:57.39 | TiagoTiago | ; that, like ideal people* |
| 04:57.43 | slonopotamus | trying to decide if it worse than physics discussion on #meego :) |
| 04:57.48 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 04:57.50 | luke-jr | but the ideal Church exists, so why not use it? :P |
| 04:58.09 | TiagoTiago | it does not, at least as far as i know |
| 04:58.30 | luke-jr | oh well, perhaps it's time to learn. but this isn't the place to get into that. |
| 04:58.47 | TiagoTiago | the church can only be as close to ideal as the people running it |
| 04:58.53 | luke-jr | there's always ##Catholic if you're interested |
| 04:58.57 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 04:59.04 | luke-jr | which is why the Church can only be ideal when that person at the top is Divine |
| 04:59.54 | TiagoTiago | books that have been writtwn, rewritten and translated by less than ideal people cannot represent the original ideal message |
| 05:00.07 | luke-jr | who said anything about books? |
| 05:00.37 | TiagoTiago | even worese fopr word of mouth traditions |
| 05:00.57 | luke-jr | again, you're assuming a fallible Church |
| 05:01.59 | TiagoTiago | an infallible church would only be possible with infallible people |
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| 05:02.35 | slonopotamus | this channel is uncomprehensible (i hope i spelled it correctly) without morning cup of coffee |
| 05:03.11 | luke-jr | TiagoTiago: the Church has an infallible Head, and infallible guidance |
| 05:03.21 | luke-jr | it cannot teach error in faith or morals |
| 05:04.15 | TiagoTiago | if that god really existed and really had our wellbeing in mind, it would have made many butterfly flap their wings ain the other side of the world and make a chain reaction of good things hapepen without interfeering with anyone's freewill |
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| 05:05.04 | luke-jr | no freewill interference required ⺠|
| 05:05.37 | TiagoTiago | a church can't work like Stephen Hawking, if the body is diseased it won't matter what the head up top is thinking |
| 05:06.14 | luke-jr | TiagoTiago: even if you can't understand how, it does work. :P |
| 05:07.51 | TiagoTiago | i can see it doesn't, the shit against gays, against women, against good healthy science, the deviled priest raping and just being swept to under the rug etc |
| 05:08.26 | TiagoTiago | sure at some points in hystory it was worse, but today itms still far from ideal |
| 05:08.29 | luke-jr | your disagreements with truth hold no grounds, nor does the slander of the mass media when put to scruteny |
| 05:09.20 | TiagoTiago | what truth? all there is is hearsay, some say someone they knew had a cousin that heard god say somthing |
| 05:09.24 | luke-jr | certainly not going to elaborate on that in here |
| 05:11.23 | TiagoTiago | i'm far more inclined into believing in gray aliens and extradimensional dragons reincarnated than in shit from the vatican and wherver the other "mainstream" religions go to pull stuff out of their ass |
| 05:11.23 | luke-jr | if you honestly want to discuss it, there's ##Catholic or PM |
| 05:11.52 | luke-jr | the Church doesn't quite qualify as "mainstream" anymore, but whatever |
| 05:13.32 | luke-jr | if you want DCC Chat, you'll need to configure your IRC client to send a WAN IP |
| 05:13.43 | TiagoTiago | hm |
| 05:14.03 | luke-jr | (if I try to initiate it, I'll probably send an IPv6 addressâ¦) |
| 05:14.22 | TiagoTiago | the other alternative is to go to that channel and have @bunch of people be agaiinst my point of view? |
| 05:15.34 | luke-jr | it's idle at the moment, but the purpose would be to explain why your objections are wrong. if someone else wakes up, that can hardly hurt. :p |
| 05:16.18 | TiagoTiago | a mob of people blinded by faith wouldn't be a pleasent chat partner |
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| 05:16.58 | luke-jr | faith isn't blinding. |
| 05:17.11 | luke-jr | there's always normal IRC PM too |
| 05:17.12 | luke-jr | shrug |
| 05:17.21 | TiagoTiago | not to everyone |
| 05:17.32 | TiagoTiago | how do i do that with xchat? |
| 05:18.42 | luke-jr | not sure, it might be labelled 'Query' |
| 05:18.43 | ShadSEC | is it possible to install a package using commandline from a non enabled repository without hacing to enable? |
| 05:19.26 | ShadSEC | ie: apt-get install screen from the tools repository without having it setup |
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| 05:23.21 | ShadSEC | is wget installed in default PR1.2? |
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| 05:28.13 | pigeon | does picking a region/country for an address in the contacts on the n900 work for anyone? |
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| 05:48.48 | ShadSEC | Any idea why it says that the tools repository is meant to be used only from the SDK environment? What harm could screen package do? |
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| 05:53.52 | merlin1991 | I don't know how good screen will run, but I think the main problems is, that the tool repo isn't optified, so you could brick you device by filling up rootfs |
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| 05:59.46 | ShadSEC | i see |
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| 06:02.26 | pigeon | hmm, the n900 seems to take much longer to get gps signal and fixes if there's no sim in it... |
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| 06:07.33 | pigeon | or if someone tells me it's a red herring... |
| 06:07.59 | Stskeeps | pigeon: AGPS is pretty much needed. it just takes very long time without |
| 06:08.40 | pigeon | is AGPS == "network positioning" in the settings? |
| 06:08.46 | CreamyG | yeah when my gps worked i am guessing WIND finally unblocked the damn port |
| 06:08.47 | merlin1991 | or doesn't work at all, like mine does |
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| 06:15.05 | Corsac | Stskeeps: especially since it doesn't seem to remember previous position/ephemeris, so it restarts from where it can, usually the middle of the country you're in if cell is on |
| 06:15.15 | Stskeeps | Corsac: :nod: |
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| 06:29.19 | rmrfchik | hehe, no MeeGo on Nokia World. |
| 06:29.38 | rmrfchik | only rotting symbian |
| 06:29.49 | johnx | rmrfchik, yeah. It would really steal the thunder of the Meego conference |
| 06:30.20 | johnx | rmrfchik, but you heard the good news about the Palm designer guy getting picked up for Meego UX, right? |
| 06:31.15 | rmrfchik | nope |
| 06:31.35 | rmrfchik | I lost hope in Nokia, so don't track meego |
| 06:31.46 | TiagoTiago | what about that tablet running meego i saw on the news at some conference? |
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| 06:31.54 | rmrfchik | what palm guy? from the original palm? |
| 06:32.22 | rmrfchik | TiagoTiago: hmm, 9:33AM "We will not make any MeeGo product launches today. More on that before the year is out. |
| 06:34.02 | johnx | http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/14/nokia-hires-peter-skillman-former-palm-design-vp-as-meego-user/ |
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| 06:34.25 | TiagoTiago | I think it wasn't a Nokia |
| 06:34.26 | johnx | actually, engadget has the important part of the story in the link itself. no real need to click. heh |
| 06:35.01 | johnx | TiagoTiago, if it's a tablet, it's likely intel related |
| 06:35.19 | johnx | rmrfchik, honestly, this is one case where intel being involved in a project gives me some amount of home |
| 06:35.24 | johnx | s/home/hope/ |
| 06:35.43 | TiagoTiago | I think i saw it on either CNN or BBC, it was in a place with lots of 3d TVs |
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| 06:36.04 | rmrfchik | johnx: yes, I eager to see not nokia's device. |
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| 06:56.06 | TiagoTiago | i guess i'll be going, cya |
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| 07:05.29 | rmrfchik | johnx: according to profile on LinkedIn, Peter Skillman was in Handspring (when devices uses original Palm interface), and was in Palm since Jan 2007, when no any advance in GUi was evolved. |
| 07:06.01 | rmrfchik | May be he is a good guy, but seems like he has no relation with palm success in GUI/PIM. |
| 07:06.41 | johnx | rmrfchik: wasn't the palm pre UI in full swing around 2007? |
| 07:06.56 | johnx | (unrelated: handspring rawked!) |
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| 07:07.38 | rmrfchik | johnx: ahh.. new palm devices has no any relation with original palm spirit. |
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| 07:08.36 | johnx | if meego ended up looking a lot like the palm pre UI, that would be a very, very good thing |
| 07:08.41 | rmrfchik | I read about how Palm UI was born. The guy behind it was creating USER interface. Current ui designers are crearing GRAPHIC interface |
| 07:08.46 | rmrfchik | feel the difference |
| 07:08.52 | johnx | also, in case you forgot, handspring basically invented the smart phone ;P |
| 07:09.10 | johnx | feel the difference? it feels a lot like not using a stylus :P |
| 07:09.33 | rmrfchik | and my wife is crying about it -- how she will draw her designs now? |
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| 07:10.29 | mece | johnx, as long as the hardware doesn't look like the pre. |
| 07:10.32 | rmrfchik | and, despite stylis, original palm's gui and concept was very, very friendly. can't say this about any modern gui |
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| 07:10.59 | johnx | there have been big leaps forward since the PalmOS days (and a ton of missteps) |
| 07:11.30 | *** join/#maemo ufear (~koen@s001.onlyfear.nl) |
| 07:11.30 | johnx | throwing out all the new stuff would be a huge mistake, IMHO |
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| 07:11.53 | rmrfchik | one huge misstep I see -- no any modern device with gigafuckingherz can pop me up contacts/calendar/notes instantly |
| 07:12.29 | johnx | your palm never crashed on you and ate all your contacts, huh? |
| 07:12.53 | johnx | also related: you didn't develop for palm, did you? |
| 07:13.07 | rmrfchik | i did |
| 07:13.15 | johnx | how was that? |
| 07:13.20 | rmrfchik | and was happy not to deal with files. |
| 07:13.26 | rmrfchik | it was nice |
| 07:14.46 | johnx | huh. RST38h painted a very different picture of it, IIRC |
| 07:15.11 | rmrfchik | johnx: palm crashed, it happened, but thanks to god it is VERY VERY hard to lost your data. |
| 07:15.21 | rmrfchik | very smart backup system |
| 07:15.43 | johnx | as long as you synced all the time ... |
| 07:16.14 | johnx | I'm happy with my phone being a stand-alone device, that I can use away from a computer for extended periods |
| 07:16.24 | rmrfchik | I managed to have backup on SD card. In fact, two of backups -- weekly and daily |
| 07:16.45 | johnx | had a handspring without an SD slot |
| 07:16.55 | johnx | I was actually saving up for the MP3 module when it died |
| 07:17.02 | rmrfchik | so, any device without syncing can lose your data |
| 07:17.03 | johnx | I bought a Zaurus and never looked back |
| 07:17.07 | rmrfchik | isn't'? |
| 07:17.21 | johnx | devices that *keep your data in RAM* have a much better chance |
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| 07:17.25 | rmrfchik | I used Zaurus (and even hacked a little) for a year. |
| 07:17.26 | johnx | of losing it entirely |
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| 07:18.31 | johnx | look, I'm not arguing that the palm didn't have some very desirable traits |
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| 07:18.59 | johnx | in a lot of ways, I'd like to see us taking the UI as an example of "as simple as possible, but no simpler" |
| 07:20.12 | rmrfchik | the point is not only in simple UI. it is about speed, handy, intuitness. |
| 07:20.18 | rmrfchik | (can't speel last word) |
| 07:21.07 | johnx | those are definitely good traits, but if the device doesn't do what you want, they're useless |
| 07:22.19 | rmrfchik | yes, and was taking notes, uses ToDos and other PIM work on palm. And don't do this on any later device I had: acer n310 (wince), zaurus, n810, n900. |
| 07:23.05 | rmrfchik | all those devices can only be used as bookreader, simple game console. |
| 07:23.25 | johnx | I keep a ton of notes on the N900 in tomboy |
| 07:23.43 | flux | n900+emacs+org-mode ftw, no?-) |
| 07:23.46 | johnx | I sync them back and forth, wirelessly to my desktops |
| 07:24.10 | flux | I'm waiting for someone to compile Darcs for n900 to do that syncing part.. |
| 07:24.10 | rmrfchik | flux: i'm vim guy ;) |
| 07:24.25 | flux | rmrfchik, you know, some people have converted to emacs just to use org-mode ;-) |
| 07:24.26 | rmrfchik | johnx: how tomboy get synced? |
| 07:24.26 | johnx | and yes, sometimes I miss the the Palm Notes UI, but I don't miss the HWR |
| 07:25.00 | johnx | looks at his sync config |
| 07:25.04 | johnx | I think I sync it to ubuntu one |
| 07:25.33 | johnx | yeah |
| 07:26.30 | johnx | I sync the PIM stuff to my Mac over bluetooth. I really wish it could sync to CalDAV/CardDAV though |
| 07:29.21 | *** join/#maemo bergie (~bergie@nemein.suvilahti.nemein.net) |
| 07:29.21 | rmrfchik | johnx: I have idiosyncrasy to .net and mono. tomboy is .net, isn't? |
| 07:30.21 | johnx | connboy on the N900 is vala |
| 07:30.28 | johnx | or is it conboy? |
| 07:30.42 | johnx | but yeah, tomboy on the desktop is .net |
| 07:30.53 | johnx | and it's your loss. but it's no less free than PalmOS was ... |
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| 07:32.50 | rmrfchik | it's not about free, it's about hygiene |
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| 07:33.02 | johnx | avoiding patents? |
| 07:33.11 | rmrfchik | avoiding MS trap |
| 07:33.48 | johnx | I don't think either of us will manage to convince the other, so let's agree to disagree |
| 07:33.50 | *** join/#maemo lolloo (~user@94.97.47.218) |
| 07:33.52 | rmrfchik | heard last news from russia -- MS advoicates was used to sue dissent. |
| 07:34.08 | Stskeeps | did you see the followup? |
| 07:34.13 | Stskeeps | microsoft giving NGOs free licenses |
| 07:34.19 | rmrfchik | I saw |
| 07:34.21 | Stskeeps | and it wasn't MS advocates |
| 07:34.54 | rmrfchik | I read, MS people WERE on place when it all happened |
| 07:35.14 | rmrfchik | the saw what happens, the saw all license was fine and didn't do anything |
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| 07:35.58 | lolloo | site? |
| 07:36.26 | lolloo | aev> yeah I remember in the mid 90s there was so much hope that Russia and the U.S. would be friends |
| 07:36.47 | lolloo | ev> and that the cold war was over |
| 07:37.06 | lolloo | boy that was short lived |
| 07:37.25 | lolloo | hello? |
| 07:37.31 | rmrfchik | ? |
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| 07:47.44 | flux | has someone used n900 usb port for communicating with an external device via non-usb-means? possibly flipping power lines or something? |
| 07:48.04 | flux | I'm wondering what kind of speeds would such approach give.. |
| 07:48.20 | flux | (as in a few bps or possibly even a few kbps :-)) |
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| 07:50.34 | jacekowski | few bps at most |
| 07:50.39 | jacekowski | 10bps maybe |
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| 07:54.22 | mece | Khertan, ping |
| 07:57.19 | flux | jacekowski, oh well. possibly could be useful for some launcher, if even that :) |
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| 08:24.40 | crashanddie | hehehe |
| 08:25.18 | DocScrutinizer | moaning |
| 08:25.40 | crashanddie | I just messed with some people by having their voicemail say you-have.wav + digit_echo(random()) + new-message-plural.wav |
| 08:25.58 | crashanddie | takes off evil hat. |
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| 08:27.47 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: aaw, it was a nice hat |
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| 08:30.07 | DocScrutinizer | actualy I see this often, when people move their flat here and get new landline, with t-mo voicebox - though they have their own TAM :-P |
| 08:31.02 | DocScrutinizer | t-mo voicebox has annoying habit to cal every hour : "you have 5 new messages" - TAM: "... thank you for calling" |
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| 08:32.51 | DocScrutinizer | error description: "My TAM is weird, it talks to itself, leaving messages about messages" X-P |
| 08:37.08 | crashanddie | http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1787448&cid=33584186 |
| 08:40.47 | johnx | crashanddie: ugh. phone systems. ugh. |
| 08:41.29 | DocScrutinizer | eeerm |
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| 08:44.07 | *** join/#maemo florian_kc (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 08:45.08 | DocScrutinizer | what a BS |
| 08:45.59 | *** join/#maemo PolarFox (~polarfox@akatsomo.com) |
| 08:46.35 | *** join/#maemo range (ralph@centos/homeonthe/range) |
| 08:46.58 | DocScrutinizer | ""...for enabling the camera function of the screens 4th pixels you snap on a hood with a lens on top"" |
| 08:47.44 | johnx | DocScrutinizer: having fun with google translate? |
| 08:48.17 | *** join/#maemo ToJa92 (~ToJa92@90-228-225-154-no126.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 08:48.37 | DocScrutinizer | not really, just trying to figure how senors in a 'LCD' type screen can make for a camera function |
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| 08:49.29 | Jaffa | Mo9ring, all |
| 08:49.52 | DocScrutinizer | ...or has Polaroid developed a new photofilm that just needs to be held to the scene to pick up? without any camera around it? |
| 08:50.51 | DocScrutinizer | and M$ has copied this to their thin-as-shit-o-glass 'surface' device |
| 08:52.46 | *** join/#maemo ohwhyme (~ohwhyme@81-178-200-200.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 08:52.56 | johnx | hmm, for the full sized surface I think I remember something about IR sensors behind the screen or something to that effect? |
| 08:53.11 | crashanddie | they had IR projectors all over the place |
| 08:53.25 | crashanddie | and 4 (at least) cameras to locate the objects |
| 08:53.44 | crashanddie | the screen was coated with an IR absorbant |
| 08:54.03 | crashanddie | so that the cameras could detect the edges of the objects, and submit that edge-detection to the display |
| 08:54.53 | lcuk2 | jaffa arent you at Nokia World? |
| 08:54.53 | johnx | for some reason I thought I remembered them reading 'game cards' or something with patterns on them |
| 08:55.14 | johnx | might have been a different tabletop demo thing than surface though ... |
| 08:55.20 | *** join/#maemo msanchez (~msanchez@44.24.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
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| 08:56.50 | lcuk2 | DocScrutinizer, quad pels on the lcd |
| 08:56.56 | Jaffa | lcuk2: Yupl Had breakfast with Ari. Seen Ronan Mac Laverty, thp and Ville Vainio's supposed to be around |
| 08:57.11 | DocScrutinizer | quad pels? |
| 08:58.41 | lcuk2 | cool jaffa, did you find yourself an n8 yet |
| 08:58.48 | lcuk2 | DocScrutinizer, RGB and input |
| 08:59.01 | DocScrutinizer | johnx: see, you can't use IR sensors spread over any area for anything except contact scanning, as you can't take a picture of a scene by waving with the polaroid film |
| 08:59.17 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk2: ^^^ to you as well |
| 08:59.43 | DocScrutinizer | to call such thing 'camera' is mere BS |
| 08:59.44 | johnx | DocScrutinizer: yeah. I get the concept. Hence why I qualified what I was saying. I don't know *how* they do it *shrugs* |
| 09:01.14 | DocScrutinizer | for taking a picture you'll need a lens or aperture, or lasers and holography |
| 09:01.19 | *** join/#maemo Flyser (~quassel@p4FDE7226.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:01.50 | DocScrutinizer | none of all that is applicable to sensors in a display of whatever technology |
| 09:03.10 | DocScrutinizer | that's as silly as telling "your TV takes snapshots of you, via the screen, and sends them back to the TV-station" |
| 09:03.30 | johnx | DocScrutinizer: I used to be terrified that it did when I was little |
| 09:04.02 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, and this M$ announcement is for little boys |
| 09:04.06 | johnx | someone told me about the concept of "TV ratings" but didn't bother to tell me how the TV stations knew |
| 09:05.13 | *** join/#maemo smooph (~alschroe@sandworm.riedberg.ads.uni-frankfurt.de) |
| 09:05.48 | crashanddie | anyone remember those boxes that you held up against your TV monitor, in a specific area? |
| 09:06.02 | crashanddie | And it would allow you to "play"? The box had like a couple of input buttons |
| 09:07.08 | Jaffa | lcuk2: Going to look for one later. Qt Mobility, Qt Creator and Symbian, MeeGo and Maemo Hermes, I'm tginking. |
| 09:07.09 | DocScrutinizer | barcode type "morse" via TV? old boring nonsense |
| 09:07.11 | Jaffa | N8 is *nice* harddware |
| 09:07.21 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: yeah, something like that |
| 09:07.26 | johnx | DocScrutinizer: so yeah, the cameras in surface appear to actually be cameras |
| 09:07.36 | Stskeeps | Jaffa: and not even armv7 afaik.. |
| 09:08.03 | crashanddie | Jaffa: are you saying it's nice because Pamela Anderson (the old cow) has decided to star in a movie filmed by it? |
| 09:08.04 | Jaffa | Stskeeps: Really? It's fast. |
| 09:08.15 | Stskeeps | Jaffa: broadcom gfx chip is bloody capable |
| 09:08.18 | lcuk2 | jaffa dont fall into that trap |
| 09:08.22 | lcuk2 | the n810 is fast |
| 09:08.30 | Stskeeps | Jaffa: have heard rumours it's better than SGX |
| 09:08.31 | Jaffa | crashanddie: No. It's nice despite such tacky T&A tactics |
| 09:08.39 | lcuk2 | it just has to spend a long time drawing its huge screen |
| 09:08.56 | lcuk2 | the N8 has LOWER RESOLUTION display which allows a lesser cpu to look slick |
| 09:08.58 | lcuk2 | hint hint |
| 09:09.05 | crashanddie | lcuk2: and it has to spend even more time going through 18 different layers of software abstraction to reach the screen in the first place. |
| 09:09.08 | lcuk2 | its 640*360 |
| 09:09.09 | Jaffa | lcuk2: Sure - but I'm a user too and I care about UI responsiveness. |
| 09:09.16 | lcuk2 | yes |
| 09:09.23 | Jaffa | Virtual keyboard's not as nice as N900, of course |
| 09:09.29 | lcuk2 | so do that on n900 |
| 09:09.36 | lcuk2 | with meego |
| 09:09.43 | crashanddie | Jaffa: virtual keyboard as good as Opera's VK? |
| 09:09.51 | lcuk2 | and see how it works |
| 09:10.17 | FIQ|n900 | What is the default browser of MeeGo? |
| 09:10.26 | crashanddie | FIQ|n900: internet explorer |
| 09:10.27 | FIQ|n900 | microB, fennec, opera, what? :P |
| 09:10.32 | FIQ|n900 | yeah, right |
| 09:10.43 | FIQ|n900 | but, what is it? |
| 09:10.58 | crashanddie | "Blackberry Hotspot Browser" |
| 09:10.59 | DocScrutinizer | johnx: ( crashanddie: SpeedEvil: ) correct me when I'm wrong, but when you use just one sensor behind a lens of a certain aperture size, this won't improve the quality loss from small aperture, when compared to using same apperture size lens with a multi-pixel-sensor? |
| 09:11.05 | crashanddie | only allows connections through Wifi |
| 09:11.16 | mece | FIQ|n900: there's fennec on the current meego |
| 09:11.22 | FIQ|n900 | Ah, ok |
| 09:11.24 | FIQ|n900 | @ mece |
| 09:11.45 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: there's quality loss related to aperture size? |
| 09:11.51 | crashanddie | that's news to me. |
| 09:12.00 | mece | Nokias meego/harmattan browser is supposed to be webkit based. |
| 09:12.19 | johnx | DocScrutinizer: honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about and/or getting at |
| 09:12.21 | DocScrutinizer | so even while "surface" might have a lens in front of each of 600k one-pixel sensors, the overall performance still is that of a cam with an aperture of one pixel size |
| 09:12.34 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: sure, you need exposure like mad |
| 09:12.37 | Robot101 | mece: where did you hear that? |
| 09:12.41 | johnx | DocScrutinizer: go read wikipedia |
| 09:12.52 | johnx | it has a rear-projection screen, IR emitters and IR cameras |
| 09:12.59 | aquatix | hm, speaking of fennec; anyone that has the nightly fennec build working on os2008? (n810) |
| 09:13.02 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: oh, explained like that: yes |
| 09:13.06 | Jaffa | lcuk2: You miss my point. I don't care from a product pov. If the device & OS can't properly drive itself... |
| 09:13.08 | aquatix | it says it's missing libc 3.4.9 here (iirc) |
| 09:13.09 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: but that's not what they care about |
| 09:13.23 | lcuk2 | jaffa my hint was actually towards stskeeps |
| 09:13.30 | lcuk2 | not you ;) |
| 09:13.58 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: if you have an aperture of one px, you can probably detect if it's obstructed or not, and then *maybe* an rgb value |
| 09:14.05 | crashanddie | not much more than that |
| 09:14.11 | DocScrutinizer | yesyes |
| 09:14.20 | DocScrutinizer | I'd not call that a CAMERA |
| 09:14.23 | crashanddie | nope |
| 09:14.38 | mece | Robot101, I don't remember, but I'm pretty sure that was the case. |
| 09:14.39 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: plus, you'd have to see what the focus point is |
| 09:14.45 | *** join/#maemo frade (~ivan@nat/nokia/x-xcwqsdnjljsdtbyn) |
| 09:14.51 | DocScrutinizer | lol, that let aside, yes |
| 09:15.20 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: a pinhole camera will give you a pretty nice image of the sun when the image is projected at about a meter |
| 09:15.32 | DocScrutinizer | I know |
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| 09:15.58 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: use the same pinhole with a sensor plane at less than a cm from the aperture plane, and you get an insanely bright spot that is either completely washed out or black. |
| 09:16.51 | MNZ | just stick a webcam on the darn thing and be done with it |
| 09:17.08 | pupnik_ | binoculars focussed on a mirror bouncing off to a wall can also project an image of the sun - you can see sunspots and eclipses |
| 09:17.18 | DocScrutinizer | just ignore that M$ BS hoax |
| 09:17.53 | DocScrutinizer | don't they also regularly announce "really usable OS"? |
| 09:18.21 | johnx | DocScrutinizer: you mean that they can make a thinner Surface, or that the current one actually exists? |
| 09:18.43 | FIQ|n900 | wouldn't suprise me at all |
| 09:18.51 | FIQ|n900 | @ DocScrutinizer |
| 09:19.37 | DocScrutinizer | what wouldn't surprise you? If M$ had announced another vaporware that never is to come? |
| 09:20.04 | crashanddie | is objdump available on the n900? |
| 09:20.32 | lcuk2 | jaffa so you are rewriting hermes as a native app? |
| 09:21.17 | DocScrutinizer | or just if some bizz droid in M$ hasn't understood what optical touchpad is all about, and made up some BS about 'cameras in surface' |
| 09:21.30 | FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer: yeah. and the fact that it would make "really usable OS" |
| 09:21.40 | MNZ | crashanddie, yes, objdump is available |
| 09:21.42 | johnx | DocScrutinizer: I still can't tell if you're talking about the current version or some future version ... |
| 09:21.45 | crashanddie | hmm |
| 09:21.47 | mece | crashanddie, there is binutils. Shouldn't it be part ofd that? |
| 09:21.50 | crashanddie | I really don't want to setup scratchbox |
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| 09:22.26 | crashanddie | thanks mece |
| 09:22.49 | DocScrutinizer | I'm talking about the article crashanddie linked to (well actually he linked to a comment on that article) |
| 09:23.31 | DocScrutinizer | "" thin as a sheet of glass, with cameras built into the display"" |
| 09:24.17 | johnx | ah, got it |
| 09:24.22 | johnx | didn't RTFS |
| 09:24.23 | DocScrutinizer | I'd be *surprised* if this were about an already existing device |
| 09:24.40 | DocScrutinizer | as such device never will exist |
| 09:24.50 | johnx | meh. it's marketing speak |
| 09:24.51 | DocScrutinizer | (the next 10 or 15 years) |
| 09:25.06 | DocScrutinizer | or next 1500 years |
| 09:25.15 | johnx | there is a current version of surface that is quite real, but it involves a rear-projected display, ir emitters and ir cameras |
| 09:25.40 | johnx | it's almost exactly the size of one of those cocktail-style arcade cabinets |
| 09:26.02 | johnx | costs $12,500 |
| 09:27.01 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, an interactive table? |
| 09:27.18 | *** join/#maemo rmoravcik (~rmoravcik@gtsgw.ttc.cz) |
| 09:27.26 | DocScrutinizer | meh, I don't care, please don't answer |
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| 09:27.31 | peb__ | is gone. Gone since Tue Sep 7 15:18:00 2010 |
| 09:27.59 | Corsac | peb__: we don't care |
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| 09:28.57 | DocScrutinizer | wasn't peb__ earning a +q or +b from crashanddie for that annoyance, some months ago? |
| 09:29.49 | X-Fade | MohammadAG51: Ping? |
| 09:30.13 | crashanddie | was it peb_? |
| 09:30.21 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@54.200.49.122-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 09:30.29 | DocScrutinizer | lol, you got him on your /ignore ? |
| 09:30.34 | crashanddie | no no |
| 09:30.38 | *** join/#maemo Dialekt (~Dialekt@cpe-76-170-247-154.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 09:30.44 | crashanddie | I was wondering if it were indeed Peb who got banned for it |
| 09:31.23 | timeless | anyone here know what the heck "canceled" means in modest's outbox? |
| 09:31.35 | timeless | or how to debug "sending" |
| 09:31.53 | timeless | sp3000: ping |
| 09:31.59 | DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=is+gone.+Gone+since+ |
| 09:32.02 | johnx | wonders if he is the only person who ever had consistently good luck with modest ... |
| 09:32.07 | Jaffa | lcuk2: Thinking of trying to, anyway |
| 09:32.10 | timeless | (anyone know what my last point number was) |
| 09:32.27 | timeless | johnx: i've generally not had much trouble w/ it |
| 09:32.27 | DocScrutinizer | peb peb_ peb__ peb___ is gone. Gone since... |
| 09:32.32 | *** join/#maemo tekojo (~quassel@Maemo/maemo.org/infrastructure/tekojo) |
| 09:32.38 | timeless | but it just ate my last x messages |
| 09:32.42 | timeless | hi tekojo |
| 09:32.58 | tekojo | hi timeless |
| 09:32.59 | DocScrutinizer | timeless: 17 ? |
| 09:33.15 | johnx | timeless: switching between cell with crappy reception and wifi? what were the circumstances? |
| 09:33.22 | timeless | doc: is that available or used? |
| 09:33.31 | crashanddie | peb__: in case you didn't get the message: deactivate your bloody away script. |
| 09:33.32 | lcuk2 | jaffa cool |
| 09:33.35 | DocScrutinizer | lol, not sure |
| 09:33.37 | timeless | 3.5g atm on o2 pay as you go |
| 09:33.47 | crashanddie | timeless: got credit left? |
| 09:33.48 | timeless | no wifi involved |
| 09:34.01 | timeless | crashanddie: i'm using it now |
| 09:34.04 | timeless | :b |
| 09:34.08 | crashanddie | fairy nuff |
| 09:34.26 | crashanddie | timeless: can you connect to an smtp and send an email manually? |
| 09:34.33 | timeless | it's 10gbp for 1mo "unlimited" on an "iPhone only" plan |
| 09:34.34 | X-Fade | Well, maybe they charge you per email ;) |
| 09:35.02 | timeless | crashanddie: i don't think busybox includes telnet |
| 09:35.17 | nidO | o2's data service allows port25 connections |
| 09:35.33 | DocScrutinizer | messybox and telnet - *cough* |
| 09:35.35 | nidO | on contract, at least |
| 09:35.44 | DocScrutinizer | dream team |
| 09:35.46 | timeless | it worked earlier |
| 09:36.03 | MNZ | actually, maemo has both telnet and netcat |
| 09:36.05 | johnx | timeless: could you have roamed between towers? |
| 09:36.07 | MNZ | not messybox |
| 09:36.22 | timeless | johnx: i wrote one from my guest house room |
| 09:36.35 | timeless | so i was quite stationary |
| 09:36.45 | DocScrutinizer | MNZ: netcat? sure it wasn't socat? |
| 09:37.15 | MNZ | well the package says netcat |
| 09:37.29 | MNZ | and there's socat as well |
| 09:37.46 | timeless | what repo? extras? |
| 09:37.55 | DocScrutinizer | guess that's new, as I'd prefer netcat over socat, for mere memorability of cmd syntax |
| 09:38.01 | MNZ | netcat -> tools |
| 09:38.10 | MNZ | socat -> extras |
| 09:38.18 | MNZ | telnet -> extras |
| 09:38.23 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, that might explain it |
| 09:38.23 | timeless | grr |
| 09:38.30 | timeless | you guys collectively suck |
| 09:38.33 | timeless | :) |
| 09:38.58 | timeless | picks tools |
| 09:39.09 | MNZ | turns off vacuum. |
| 09:39.12 | MNZ | Better now? |
| 09:39.23 | crashanddie | timeless: I guess sucking collectively would be better than... sucking oneself (or on our own?)? |
| 09:40.26 | timeless | ok, would someone please give me a one liner to test nc/25 w/ a server they like? |
| 09:40.27 | lcuk2 | crashanddie, that would lead to trips to the orthopedist |
| 09:40.38 | *** join/#maemo FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 09:41.24 | timeless | kicks the brilliant list-ui designer who didn't include integrated search |
| 09:41.26 | alterego | Are there any videos of Nokia World ? |
| 09:41.38 | timeless | (can't filter ham's catalog list) |
| 09:41.39 | alterego | Can just find little clips, kinda want to watch all the keynotes |
| 09:41.55 | DocScrutinizer | hands timeless heavy boots |
| 09:41.56 | timeless | surely they'll suck, no? |
| 09:42.09 | timeless | doc: nc line would be better |
| 09:42.27 | DocScrutinizer | ~debian timeless |
| 09:42.27 | infobot | ACTION tells timeless to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! |
| 09:42.40 | lcuk2 | alterego, theres been a live stream http://events.nokia.com/nokiaworld/home.htm |
| 09:42.48 | lcuk2 | and it says that a vid will be available |
| 09:42.57 | timeless | ~ $ nc smtp.gmail.com 25 |
| 09:42.57 | timeless | 220 mx.google.com ESMTP x33sm196264weq.47 |
| 09:42.58 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se) |
| 09:43.05 | lcuk2 | note: that page is awful, its got a sliding swiping phone in the background in eyeshot |
| 09:43.14 | DocScrutinizer | cat | nc your.serv.er 25 |
| 09:43.43 | *** join/#maemo [DrkGUNMAN-N900] (~DarkGUNMA@host86-170-57-29.range86-170.btcentralplus.com) |
| 09:43.51 | timeless | anyway, the above should confirm that mail works.. |
| 09:44.04 | timeless | back to other stuff |
| 09:44.05 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@213.59.86.89) |
| 09:44.32 | timeless | oh, mfe is still delivering inbound and retrieving contacts, so i shouldn't be locked out.. |
| 09:44.39 | johnx | timeless: quick question. what do you mean by doesn't include integrated search. it has find-as-you-type |
| 09:45.08 | timeless | johnx: open the catalogs dialog.. |
| 09:45.31 | timeless | something each ui designer has to specify as turned on is stupid |
| 09:45.43 | johnx | aah, that. I guess it wasn't designed to have that many catalogs |
| 09:45.57 | timeless | i didn't kick the ham ui designer |
| 09:46.04 | timeless | i kicked the widget ui designer |
| 09:46.09 | johnx | aaah, got it |
| 09:47.24 | *** join/#maemo bigbrovar (~quassel@83.229.6.19) |
| 09:47.24 | timeless | anyway, can someone please help me figure out how to debug outbound mail w/ modest? |
| 09:47.38 | jacekowski | tcpdump? |
| 09:47.46 | timeless | i'm walking to edinburgh cstle and would like to conserve power |
| 09:47.53 | *** join/#maemo silbo (~quassel@193.40.194.207) |
| 09:47.58 | MNZ | tcpdump + wireshark |
| 09:48.21 | timeless | grr |
| 09:48.25 | timeless | bazookas unwelcome |
| 09:48.39 | jacekowski | tcpdump then |
| 09:48.41 | timeless | modest based logging preferred |
| 09:48.53 | X-Fade | timeless: Just delete the mail and copy it into gmail web? |
| 09:49.23 | X-Fade | Saves you a lot of energy :) |
| 09:49.28 | timeless | um, there's no copy |
| 09:49.40 | timeless | when i was asking for my point number |
| 09:50.03 | *** join/#maemo air (~brand@c-24-10-241-18.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 09:51.23 | *** join/#maemo eocanha (~eocanha@85-156-91-238.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 09:53.30 | timeless | 18. a mail app should al allow one to perform all basic mail operations (move, copy, forward, reply, save) on messages in all folders (inbox, outbox, drafts, sent) |
| 09:54.15 | MNZ | Oh so that's what 'point number' is.. Are these points recorded anywhere besides the irc log? |
| 09:54.36 | *** join/#maemo kwek (~kwek@212.230.221.208) |
| 09:54.37 | timeless | 19. an onscreen keyboard shouldn't place l and ! next to eachother l |
| 09:55.17 | timeless | not yet, but eventually... |
| 09:55.29 | lcuk2 | timeless, debugging the stream hmm |
| 09:55.39 | lcuk2 | not something actually expected |
| 09:55.52 | lcuk2 | especially not on the go |
| 09:56.17 | lcuk2 | is mail just sitting there? |
| 09:56.27 | timeless | walks up north bridge to the royal mile - it's a wee bit longer than a proper mile... |
| 09:57.11 | alterego | I should have gone to NW |
| 09:57.14 | alterego | sighs |
| 09:58.40 | timeless | it's sitting in outbox status 'sending' and status 'canceled' - 2 messages.. |
| 09:59.16 | *** join/#maemo ludens (~ludens@91.191.136.153) |
| 10:00.00 | lcuk2 | nice timeless how are you connecting smtp/imap? |
| 10:00.23 | lcuk2 | and is the account simple or complex (ie lots of folders or just straight normal bleh account) |
| 10:00.29 | timeless | 20. a contacts view should *always* be able to open the corresponding card (the dialog from a contact in sms can't...) |
| 10:00.51 | lcuk2 | where are you reading the specs from btw? |
| 10:00.58 | lcuk2 | and where can i get the previous 18? |
| 10:01.12 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk) |
| 10:01.16 | DocScrutinizer | timeless: small bazooka: tshark |
| 10:01.44 | DocScrutinizer | timeless: tshark|less even |
| 10:02.35 | DocScrutinizer | don't use this command via ssh, kids! |
| 10:02.59 | timeless | 21. a multiline editor (e.g. for mail) while free to show 2-3 lines of a longer blob *must* automatically bring in a subsequent or preceeding line when the user reduces the lines to 1. |
| 10:03.38 | timeless | irc log link is in topic, try yesterday. |
| 10:03.47 | *** join/#maemo zs (~zs@188-223-195-142.zone14.bethere.co.uk) |
| 10:04.07 | timeless | this is an mfe account w/ 20 or so remote folders. |
| 10:05.10 | *** join/#maemo Bash (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 10:05.32 | lcuk | timeless, does it get new messages down? |
| 10:05.32 | timeless | it's 11am and i've arrived at the castle, time to conserve power |
| 10:05.38 | lcuk | ok |
| 10:05.47 | timeless | lcuk: yes |
| 10:06.33 | lcuk | hmm |
| 10:10.38 | *** join/#maemo Khertan_ (c16a270a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.106.39.10) |
| 10:11.04 | Khertan_ | Hi ! |
| 10:11.33 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~chatzilla@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 10:12.45 | *** join/#maemo calvaris (~calvaris@192.100.124.156) |
| 10:13.33 | Jaffa | Khertan: Using Khweeteur, very nice. |
| 10:13.59 | Jaffa | Khertan: Can it embolden (or some other way) the @replies? |
| 10:13.59 | *** join/#maemo ayanes (~ayanes@unaffiliated/ayanes) |
| 10:14.12 | Khertan_ | embolden ? |
| 10:14.18 | crashanddie | Khertan_: accentuer |
| 10:14.22 | Jaffa | Khertan: As in make bolder :) |
| 10:14.24 | Khertan_ | launch google translator :) |
| 10:14.31 | Khertan_ | ah thx crashanddie |
| 10:14.32 | Khertan_ | :) |
| 10:15.08 | Jaffa | Khertan: Notifications are nice, but they seem to open a new window, even if I have one open. That's the biggest issue I've seen so far. |
| 10:15.14 | Khertan_ | hum ... just only the @reply to you or all @reply ? |
| 10:15.23 | crashanddie | Khertan_: @reply to the user |
| 10:15.29 | Khertan_ | Jaffa: yep notification is broken since 0.0.27 |
| 10:15.32 | crashanddie | well, anything that matches @$username |
| 10:15.53 | Khertan_ | Jaffa: and i'm fighting against dbus to understand why |
| 10:16.00 | Jaffa | Yeah |
| 10:16.06 | Jaffa | What crashanddie said |
| 10:16.10 | Khertan_ | didn't like dbus |
| 10:16.17 | Jaffa | Khertan_: DBus fun! |
| 10:16.22 | crashanddie | Khertan_: also, the twitter API provides a "in reply to" tweet ID |
| 10:16.32 | *** join/#maemo apol_ (~apol@84.78.178.63) |
| 10:16.35 | crashanddie | this could enable conversation-style tweet display |
| 10:16.45 | Khertan_ | crashanddie: which is broken |
| 10:16.49 | crashanddie | no it's not |
| 10:17.09 | crashanddie | you just need to parse them as strings, not ints :P |
| 10:17.16 | Jaffa | What is "serialisation"? (with tweets/Twitter= I know the concept in general) |
| 10:17.24 | Khertan_ | it s ... made a try and you ll see most reply didn't have any in_reply_to id |
| 10:17.36 | crashanddie | Khertan_: then it's the other client that is broken |
| 10:17.44 | crashanddie | Khertan_: but a good client, or the web interface do it properly |
| 10:18.01 | Khertan_ | crashanddie: :) it could but the result is the same ... user complain about tweeteur := |
| 10:18.04 | Khertan_ | :) |
| 10:18.04 | merlin1991 | witter does it afaik |
| 10:18.18 | crashanddie | anyay, out for lunch |
| 10:18.20 | crashanddie | later |
| 10:18.37 | Khertan_ | but the question is how display reply correctly |
| 10:18.49 | *** join/#maemo xnt14 (~xnt14@pool-96-250-97-29.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 10:19.04 | Khertan_ | put the icon the other side ? |
| 10:19.39 | Khertan_ | and display the original text in small font in the bottom ? |
| 10:20.20 | Khertan_ | someone know status.net works ? |
| 10:20.44 | *** join/#maemo tlir (~tlir@bzq-82-81-96-168.red.bezeqint.net) |
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| 10:25.27 | Khertan_ | ouch ... there is a but in reply_to in Khweeteur |
| 10:25.29 | Khertan_ | :) |
| 10:28.02 | *** join/#maemo Ian-- (Ian--@77.243.78.98) |
| 10:28.54 | *** join/#maemo Arkenoi (~ark@178.176.181.215) |
| 10:30.29 | *** join/#maemo bleeter_ (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 10:30.38 | tlir | hey guys |
| 10:30.44 | tlir | been a while... |
| 10:31.22 | *** join/#maemo silbo (~quassel@193.40.194.207) |
| 10:32.04 | tlir | has anyone tried android on the n810? |
| 10:39.29 | *** join/#maemo ZogG (~zoggrules@bzq-79-178-11-23.red.bezeqint.net) |
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| 10:44.34 | apol_ | is it just me or it isn't possible to install libqt4-gui due to unmet dependencies on ARM? (opengles-* stuff) |
| 10:45.07 | Stskeeps | added the nokia-binaries repo? |
| 10:45.22 | *** join/#maemo kwek (~kwek@212.230.221.208) |
| 10:45.59 | *** join/#maemo akeripper (~akeripper@213-21-75-230.bon.t3.se) |
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| 10:46.23 | apol_ | Stskeeps: oh no |
| 10:46.24 | apol_ | >.< |
| 10:46.31 | apol_ | ok might be that |
| 10:46.35 | apol_ | thx |
| 10:47.03 | *** join/#maemo kwek (~kwek@212.230.221.208) |
| 10:48.28 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@gprs39.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
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| 10:49.45 | crashanddie | lol |
| 10:50.18 | crashanddie | about 40% of the people at the htc launch have nokia world badges showing |
| 10:50.48 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@62.119.155.253) |
| 10:53.18 | nidO | i hear everyone got given survival kits from nokia too? |
| 10:54.12 | pupnik_ | meego strategy should include a decoupled OS/device track. 1) Turbo-fy a unity to Work-up Meego-Arm to a competitive consumer-phone OS. 2) Task one unit to bring-out the hottest spread of smart-phones they can, regardless of where the OS-update status is. I don't think Nokia can afford the current release cycle. |
| 10:55.26 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 10:55.41 | *** join/#maemo lizardo (~lizardo@189.2.128.130) |
| 10:57.25 | nidO | any clues as to where a live stream for the htc event is? |
| 10:57.26 | smooph | pupnik_: second that |
| 10:57.45 | *** join/#maemo pyhimys (~kytomaki@v6.fi) |
| 11:01.19 | lcuk | nidO, its here http://events.nokia.com/nokiaworld/ |
| 11:01.32 | nidO | :< |
| 11:02.20 | lcuk | thats the only event that matters right to many around here right now |
| 11:04.55 | *** join/#maemo ptlo (~senko@cpezg-94-253-147-179-cbl.xnet.hr) |
| 11:07.50 | *** join/#maemo Carneque (~bigbabyje@ip66-110-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 11:08.36 | Carneque | Hi all, just got N900 in the mail... looking forward to doing some SDK work... I need to ask a stupid question first... how do I find my own phone number? |
| 11:09.36 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Phone - pnatd / at+cnum=? is the wrong way |
| 11:10.03 | lcuk | Carneque, i normally end up calling my other phone with a new sim, but theres some technical way as SpeedEvil showed :P |
| 11:10.13 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@pd95c4acb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:10.52 | Carneque | well since I can now, I might as well find it the super difficult way... of course that's why we all got this phone to begin with right? |
| 11:11.32 | Carneque | oh that's actually really easy... sweet |
| 11:11.42 | Carneque | thanks speedevil |
| 11:11.53 | *** join/#maemo vanadis (~vanadis@213.144.156.248) |
| 11:12.00 | SpeedEvil | I'm sure it's probably also in gconf |
| 11:12.07 | wazd | Yo dawg! We heard that you like interfaces, so we've created the interface above the interface, so you can navigate while you navigate |
| 11:12.16 | wazd | (c) HTC |
| 11:12.33 | smooph | The Contact section also has a "My Settings" or something like it section |
| 11:12.43 | nidO | in fairness, nothing wrong with that. Sense is far better than the uis their devices would ship with otherwise |
| 11:13.48 | wazd | nidO: I'm fine with "another" UI, but UI on top of the UI on top of the UI |
| 11:14.06 | wazd | nidO: that's what Sense for WM was actually :) |
| 11:14.19 | Carneque | anyone thought about adding some backtrack linux functionality to the N900? |
| 11:14.23 | nidO | well, until winmo and android ship with command-line only versions, thats the best HTC can do :> |
| 11:14.37 | wazd | nidO: MeeGo is the answer :) |
| 11:14.55 | nidO | seriously though, no livestream for the htc event? :< |
| 11:15.42 | wazd | nidO: they can't even power on htcsense.com in time :P |
| 11:15.43 | ShadowJK | my phone doesn't know its own number :) |
| 11:17.43 | ShadSEC | Carneque, there are already several projects working on that |
| 11:17.44 | *** join/#maemo GuySoft_nokia (~Guysoft@117.96.235.204) |
| 11:18.48 | *** join/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@87.213.105.245) |
| 11:19.01 | *** part/#maemo GuySoft_nokia (~Guysoft@117.96.235.204) |
| 11:24.23 | wazd | samsung tab for $1240 - oh my :) |
| 11:25.20 | Carneque | ShadSEC, any links? |
| 11:26.40 | *** join/#maemo baraujo (~Bruno@189.2.128.130) |
| 11:27.47 | ShadSEC | www.neopwn.com - Very alfa yet, but they have developed modules with injection support |
| 11:28.07 | ShadSEC | also, it is some weird thing mixing open source with paid beta...... |
| 11:28.31 | ShadSEC | but the injection modules are great |
| 11:29.30 | ShadSEC | I wonder if they have already reach the 1300 euro for releasing the source of the patch |
| 11:30.17 | alterego | It'd be nice if I could have firefox to per tab proxying :/ |
| 11:30.25 | ShadSEC | on maemo.org talk you can search for kismet and aircrack-ng |
| 11:31.36 | Carneque | cool SEC, do you work for the SEC? |
| 11:31.43 | ShadSEC | whats the SEC? |
| 11:31.53 | ShadSEC | the SEC in mi nick stands for security |
| 11:31.53 | SpeedEvil | Securities and Exchange Commission? |
| 11:31.58 | ShadSEC | obviously not |
| 11:32.20 | *** join/#maemo NishanthMenon (~nmenon@nat/ti/x-vbdexshpaemhjtgd) |
| 11:33.36 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@213.59.86.89) |
| 11:33.46 | SpeedEvil | imagines ShadSEC... http://stylefrizz.com/img/louis-vuitton-lv-monogram-gimp-mask.jpg |
| 11:35.21 | ShadSEC | lol |
| 11:37.27 | *** join/#maemo Jucato (~Jucato@kde/developer/jucato) |
| 11:38.00 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (~murrayc@host-88-217-185-158.customer.m-online.net) |
| 11:38.33 | *** join/#maemo ToJa92_ (~ToJa92@90-228-225-154-no126.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 11:40.09 | crashanddie | ShadSEC: well, it's a shame they absolutely want to use chroot, when there's utterly no need for it |
| 11:40.38 | ShadSEC | That's a very interesting topic.... |
| 11:40.47 | ShadSEC | it depends... |
| 11:41.05 | crashanddie | ShadSEC: plus, the chroot is fucking up more things than actually fixes it. And the mount menu is completely fucked as well. They have some serious bugs they need to weed out |
| 11:41.31 | ShadSEC | I have tested the injection modules, but I havent even mounted neopwn yet |
| 11:41.42 | crashanddie | I mean, I like the idea, of having a unified interface is nice |
| 11:42.02 | crashanddie | But what is it in the end? Just a compilation of tools readily available, and just waiting to be compiled? |
| 11:42.07 | ShadSEC | I am also working on some related project, probably will release something in a week or two |
| 11:42.22 | crashanddie | So basically, he took on the projet to collect a number of tools, but couldn't be bothered to compile them natively? |
| 11:42.26 | ShadSEC | And, I have done all the development inside a chroot |
| 11:42.34 | ShadSEC | I think it is safest for many reasons |
| 11:42.38 | crashanddie | safest? |
| 11:42.49 | crashanddie | He's mounting all of proc, sys, and whatnot to the chroot |
| 11:42.52 | ShadSEC | also, you get the option to natively compile, that's something unresonable to do outside a chroot |
| 11:43.07 | crashanddie | unreasonable? WTH? |
| 11:43.24 | ShadSEC | space issues and more... |
| 11:43.35 | crashanddie | erhm... |
| 11:43.38 | *** join/#maemo pablo2 (~pablo@189.2.128.130) |
| 11:43.38 | ShadSEC | I have come to a conclusion about maemo/n900 |
| 11:43.51 | ShadSEC | the main "phone" os, should be left unharmed |
| 11:44.04 | ShadSEC | then it should be a community secondary FULL OS in a chroot |
| 11:44.15 | crashanddie | lmao |
| 11:44.20 | ShadSEC | why? |
| 11:44.23 | nidO | except maemo's nothing like that |
| 11:44.29 | crashanddie | yeah, because we really ahve the ability to throw RAM in the air, eh? |
| 11:44.35 | nidO | and if you want a community chroot os |
| 11:44.37 | crashanddie | Maybe you want a chroot for every single app out there? |
| 11:44.44 | nidO | easydebian's been in the repos for quite a while |
| 11:44.55 | ShadSEC | no, just one main, and one secondar COMMNITY chroot |
| 11:44.59 | ShadSEC | community |
| 11:45.07 | crashanddie | I really don't see the point |
| 11:45.14 | crashanddie | we have QA processes for a reason |
| 11:45.26 | crashanddie | and chroot will just enable bad practises and wasted CPU cycles |
| 11:45.31 | ShadSEC | but you wouldn't need that much QA that is needed now |
| 11:45.40 | crashanddie | of course you would |
| 11:45.48 | crashanddie | you're just sliding the problem somewhere else |
| 11:45.51 | ShadSEC | I don't see why it would waste more cpu |
| 11:46.04 | ShadSEC | in fact, it isnt in practice because that is exactly what i am running here |
| 11:46.24 | *** join/#maemo ToJa92_ (~ToJa92@90-228-225-154-no126.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 11:46.33 | crashanddie | if everything runs inside a chroot, you'll just end up with people not wanting to kill their chroot. So instead of doing QA for the primary, "phone OS" as you call it, you'd just be doing QA for the chroot |
| 11:46.47 | ShadSEC | i am being pragmatic.... there are lots of missing packages for mainmaemo because of those QA issues |
| 11:46.52 | *** join/#maemo killeus (~quassel@187.115.172.24) |
| 11:46.55 | ShadSEC | when you can compile most of them right away inside a chroot |
| 11:47.05 | crashanddie | and you can compile most stuff inside Maemo directly as well |
| 11:47.18 | ShadSEC | yes, but you are taking risks doing that |
| 11:47.26 | nidO | just as you are doing it in chroot |
| 11:47.29 | SpeedEvil | chroot uses significant amounts of extra RAM |
| 11:47.38 | ShadSEC | I dont notice it |
| 11:47.59 | ShadSEC | how much would you call significant extra? 10%? |
| 11:48.26 | crashanddie | ShadSEC: not only do you need to load/swap the main libraries, on top of that you have to load the other libraries of the secondary os inside the chroot |
| 11:48.59 | *** join/#maemo cfreak200 (~cfreak200@p4FDB33D7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:49.01 | ShadSEC | Only the ones missing on the main os |
| 11:49.43 | crashanddie | god damn, you sound almost as thick as swc|666 himself |
| 11:50.04 | ShadSEC | it works great for me, what can i say |
| 11:50.08 | *** join/#maemo ToJa92_ (~ToJa92@90-228-225-154-no126.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 11:50.09 | crashanddie | well, good for you |
| 11:50.13 | crashanddie | I don't see it taking off though |
| 11:50.25 | ShadSEC | anyway, about the neopwn chroot |
| 11:50.30 | crashanddie | I'd rather package the drivers nicely, with some natively compiled apps, properly optified. |
| 11:50.34 | ShadSEC | its easier that way in first place |
| 11:50.58 | ShadSEC | and considering how alpha it is I dont think he has had the time to even consider other way |
| 11:51.18 | crashanddie | no, he decided to put himself in this shit |
| 11:51.22 | crashanddie | big major difference |
| 11:51.31 | ShadSEC | But you can already do that |
| 11:51.44 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: no - you inside a chroot need to load all the libraries inside the chroot into RAM. |
| 11:51.53 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: Independantly of if they are present on the main system. |
| 11:52.04 | ShadSEC | I have moved some apps compiled in the chroot and take them out to main os.. everything is working perfectly |
| 11:52.22 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: Normally - if you have 100 programs using glibc, you have one copy of it in RAM. With a chroot, you have two. |
| 11:52.28 | crashanddie | ShadSEC: but that only works if your chroot has the same glibc, the same kernel, the same dynamic libraries |
| 11:52.56 | ShadSEC | speedevil, mmm |
| 11:53.04 | ShadSEC | the same glibc i am not sure |
| 11:53.04 | crashanddie | ShadSEC: and in that regard, it's exactly the same as running everything in the main OS. Just use scratchbox for dev, and the device for testing. Tons of people are doing it. |
| 11:53.09 | ShadSEC | the same kernel yes, of course |
| 11:53.20 | crashanddie | ShadSEC: well, a compatible glibc at least |
| 11:53.21 | ShadSEC | the same libs... well, i first copied all the main os ones to the chroot |
| 11:53.29 | crashanddie | ShadSEC: (so the chroot needs to have an older glibc than the main OS) |
| 11:53.32 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: the same or different libs are quite different. |
| 11:53.38 | ShadSEC | any adds or changes that have been made later were just needed |
| 11:53.39 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: Err - the same |
| 11:53.47 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: with respect to memory usage. |
| 11:54.06 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC: you need a copy in RAM from the chroot, and from the main OS. |
| 11:54.23 | crashanddie | do you want to know why he's doing everything inside a chroot? |
| 11:54.28 | crashanddie | I'll tell you why |
| 11:54.35 | crashanddie | because he wants to limit the apps to only run inside neopwn |
| 11:54.46 | crashanddie | that way, he thinks he'll have a steady stream of income |
| 11:55.12 | ShadSEC | probably you guys are right, but I can only say it is working great for me, and I don't notice the penalty in practise |
| 11:55.14 | crashanddie | Heck, I'm decompiling the drivers as we speak, reverse engineering them, and as soon as I have workable sources, I'm releasing to the public |
| 11:55.59 | ShadSEC | I am not so sure it is all for the money... |
| 11:56.04 | crashanddie | yes it is |
| 11:56.05 | ShadSEC | but who knows |
| 11:56.12 | crashanddie | he was pissed that nobody bought neopwn with the n900 |
| 11:56.32 | crashanddie | the guy has I don't know how many "financially involved contributors" |
| 11:56.35 | crashanddie | which means he has debts |
| 11:57.02 | ShadSEC | I wasn't very positive about the failed announce and all that sutff.... (appnns in forum), but at least they developed the injection patch, which is GREAT. |
| 11:57.22 | crashanddie | and they should've opened up immediately at that point |
| 11:57.32 | crashanddie | but he didn't, and decided to go commercial |
| 11:57.49 | crashanddie | worse yet, he decided to make people pay for something he didn't have yet, so that he could get the money to unlock the driver |
| 11:58.33 | ShadSEC | from what I can tell he is using compat-wireless |
| 11:58.44 | crashanddie | well, duh |
| 11:58.48 | crashanddie | "insmod compat.ko" |
| 11:59.22 | ShadSEC | uh? |
| 11:59.57 | crashanddie | lol |
| 12:00.00 | crashanddie | how did you install it? |
| 12:00.14 | ShadSEC | About the paying thing... it would have been much better if he had just said that in first instance |
| 12:00.15 | MohammadAG51 | ahem |
| 12:00.21 | ShadSEC | there's no compat.ko |
| 12:00.32 | MohammadAG51 | disagrees |
| 12:01.31 | crashanddie | ShadSEC: so how did you install it, then? |
| 12:01.48 | MohammadAG51 | cfg80211.ko compat.ko control-panel-ui.tar.gz kernel-power-flasher_2.6.28-maemo40-wl1_armel.deb kernel-power-modules_2.6.28-maemo40-wl1_armel.deb kernel-power_2.6.28-maemo40-wl1_armel.deb mac80211.ko neopwn neopwn.desktop neopwn.png neopwn.sh optimize.sh rfkill_backport.ko test.sh wl1251.ko wl1251_spi.ko |
| 12:02.06 | MohammadAG51 | file list on a line ftw |
| 12:02.10 | sp3000 | timeless: pong |
| 12:02.16 | sp3000 | timeless: 10098#c2 doesn't wfm |
| 12:02.19 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: could you test something for me? |
| 12:02.24 | MohammadAG51 | sure |
| 12:02.27 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: remove the powerkernel provided by neopwn |
| 12:02.28 | ShadSEC | gezz yer right ;) |
| 12:02.32 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: install the one in the repos |
| 12:02.39 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: and load the modules |
| 12:02.41 | MohammadAG51 | crashanddie, it should work |
| 12:02.42 | MohammadAG51 | but yeah, I'll do that |
| 12:02.45 | *** join/#maemo Termana (~bradley@123-3-171-234.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 12:02.50 | ShadSEC | didn't look at it after I scripted |
| 12:02.50 | crashanddie | if it works, I'm packaging tonight and releasing |
| 12:02.58 | *** join/#maemo marciom (~marciom@186.212.115.231) |
| 12:03.05 | MohammadAG51 | shout if you need help with packaging |
| 12:03.09 | crashanddie | sure |
| 12:03.09 | ShadSEC | I did |
| 12:03.15 | ShadSEC | and it complaines about missing symbols |
| 12:03.16 | *** join/#maemo rodarvus_ (~rodarvus@189.26.136.88.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 12:03.19 | crashanddie | lol |
| 12:03.23 | crashanddie | yeah, sure it does :) |
| 12:03.29 | MohammadAG51 | hmm |
| 12:03.31 | Termana | Half following the conversation from my n900 |
| 12:03.32 | crashanddie | highfives MohammadAG51 for finding that one |
| 12:03.34 | X-Fade | MohammadAG51: As you are a lazy bastard, I fixed fb for you ;) |
| 12:03.40 | X-Fade | MohammadAG51: Hope you don't mind :) |
| 12:03.41 | Termana | Has he released the kernel source? |
| 12:03.44 | MohammadAG51 | facebook? |
| 12:03.46 | crashanddie | Termana: nope |
| 12:03.48 | MohammadAG51 | it wasn't broken! |
| 12:03.49 | MohammadAG51 | :P |
| 12:03.54 | X-Fade | MohammadAG51: frozen bubble. |
| 12:04.00 | crashanddie | Termana: we just have the binaries.. I'm trying to reverse engineer it though. |
| 12:04.03 | MohammadAG51 | I uploaded a new package lol |
| 12:04.16 | MohammadAG51 | curses broken OpenWRT install |
| 12:04.21 | X-Fade | MohammadAG51: Yeah, but I changed it to depend on new perl. |
| 12:04.25 | Termana | So, isn't this a GPL violation? |
| 12:04.26 | ShadSEC | crashanddie, aren't they suppossed to release it when they reach 1300 euro? |
| 12:04.31 | MohammadAG51 | yeah X-Fade i uploaded that |
| 12:04.38 | MohammadAG51 | didn't check if it went through though |
| 12:04.48 | MohammadAG51 | Termana, it is |
| 12:04.52 | X-Fade | MohammadAG51: I created a -2 at least. |
| 12:05.02 | X-Fade | MohammadAG51: 5-1 was the lastest. |
| 12:05.16 | MohammadAG51 | hmm, then it didn't go through |
| 12:05.19 | crashanddie | Termana: well, they're not exactly distributing |
| 12:05.29 | MohammadAG51 | X-Fade, I might keep it in -devel tbh |
| 12:05.40 | MohammadAG51 | too many testers think depending on perl is a blocker |
| 12:05.42 | crashanddie | Termana: so they're not violating it... But I don't think reverse engineering a GPL driver is a violation, regardless of my having the source code or not |
| 12:06.00 | X-Fade | MohammadAG51: Well now we should push it. As they will get free space. |
| 12:06.00 | MohammadAG51 | cashhandle it isn't |
| 12:06.04 | MohammadAG51 | typo intended :P |
| 12:06.07 | crashanddie | i know |
| 12:06.10 | MohammadAG51 | xD |
| 12:06.17 | X-Fade | MohammadAG51: And perl is now available in apps, so for everybody. |
| 12:06.17 | Termana | :P |
| 12:06.18 | crashanddie | "Cash Handler" |
| 12:06.32 | MohammadAG51 | likes Crash Handle better |
| 12:06.32 | crashanddie | actually, that'd be a better suited nickname for swc|666 |
| 12:06.40 | MohammadAG51 | rofl |
| 12:06.49 | MohammadAG51 | X-Fade, I'll think about it :P |
| 12:07.05 | MohammadAG51 | the QA team needs to be fired (wrong word) and reviewed |
| 12:07.21 | MohammadAG51 | assign new testers and don't let n00bs (no offence) test |
| 12:07.41 | MohammadAG51 | depending on perl is like depending on pyside, it's not my fault the game needs it |
| 12:08.05 | X-Fade | MohammadAG51: Yeah, but it used to cost a lot of space on rootfs. Now it doesn't. |
| 12:08.16 | crashanddie | http://twitter.com/teotwaki/status/24563767706 |
| 12:08.28 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@62.119.155.253) |
| 12:08.49 | MohammadAG51 | crashanddie, |
| 12:08.51 | Stskeeps | why 'no sources'? |
| 12:08.51 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 12:08.58 | crashanddie | Stskeeps: cuz I don't have them |
| 12:09.05 | Stskeeps | heh |
| 12:09.07 | MohammadAG51 | why not upload kernel-power wl1 to devel |
| 12:09.09 | MohammadAG51 | non-free |
| 12:09.10 | zap | fired or shooted? |
| 12:09.20 | MohammadAG51 | shot* that too |
| 12:09.24 | *** join/#maemo tackat_ (~trahn@pd95c4acb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:10.34 | X-Fade | MohammadAG51: Won't that conflict with the existing one? |
| 12:10.46 | MohammadAG51 | nope, shouldn't |
| 12:10.54 | MohammadAG51 | it's a different package name |
| 12:11.18 | MohammadAG51 | or... not |
| 12:11.24 | MohammadAG51 | if it's one thing the ssu taught me |
| 12:11.32 | MohammadAG51 | it's how to unpack and repack properly |
| 12:12.06 | Stskeeps | twitches |
| 12:12.29 | MohammadAG51 | points to GPL in debian/copyright |
| 12:13.05 | MNZ | MohammadAG51, how to repack?? I have tried it a bunch of times and gave up... simply using ar fails. |
| 12:13.16 | mece | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:13.23 | Stskeeps | mece: fairly large bunch |
| 12:13.35 | Stskeeps | the good news is that our qt nightmares are over |
| 12:13.35 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 12:14.03 | lcuk | meego had nightmares? |
| 12:14.17 | lcuk | I thought it was happycamperville :P |
| 12:14.21 | MohammadAG51 | MNZ, dpkg-deb -b |
| 12:14.24 | Termana | lcuk, the MeeGo men had nightmares |
| 12:14.27 | mece | lcuk, young 'uns often do. |
| 12:14.36 | Stskeeps | if you have to repack, you're doing stuff wrong |
| 12:14.37 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 12:14.56 | lcuk | mece mm |
| 12:15.09 | MNZ | MohammadAG51, I meant an actual deb unpacked with 'ar x bla.deb' |
| 12:15.14 | Termana | Stskeeps, is that why you pack several times for any flights? |
| 12:15.15 | MohammadAG51 | ar? |
| 12:15.16 | Termana | :P |
| 12:15.17 | MohammadAG51 | idk |
| 12:15.24 | MohammadAG51 | I use dpkg-deb -x to unpack |
| 12:16.01 | MNZ | yeah, the more sensible way. I should just stop doing that ar thing :/ |
| 12:16.02 | lcuk | crashanddie, shoving a random binary that you didnt develop into non free sounds painful |
| 12:16.14 | lcuk | how can you confirm its validity ? |
| 12:16.34 | lcuk | as a security person I would have thought you wouldnt take a risk like that? |
| 12:16.52 | MohammadAG51 | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:16.52 | MohammadAG51 | Stskeeps, see? |
| 12:17.00 | MohammadAG51 | i can modify the kernel package, and I'm not violating anything |
| 12:17.38 | lcuk | smiles at qtmobility |
| 12:17.57 | mece | cuddles qtmobility |
| 12:18.33 | mece | stops cuddling qtmobility and eyes qtquick instead |
| 12:18.34 | MNZ | googles qtmobility |
| 12:18.48 | MohammadAG51 | pets qtmobility with a knife |
| 12:18.48 | frals | trouts lcuk |
| 12:18.58 | MohammadAG51 | slaps frals with an infobot |
| 12:19.12 | MohammadAG51 | (that thing bites) |
| 12:19.15 | mece | runs, screaming something about "Zombies" |
| 12:19.28 | MNZ | thinks you are a crazy bunch |
| 12:19.37 | Termana | http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/15/nokia-crashes-htcs-london-event-with-red-balloons-hate/ - :P |
| 12:19.52 | MohammadAG51 | MNZ, who isn't, muhahaha |
| 12:19.58 | *** join/#maemo ZogG (~zoggrules@bzq-79-178-11-23.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 12:20.36 | crashanddie | lcuk: I never said I'd shove it in non-free |
| 12:20.39 | lcuk | mece qtmobility isnt all about front end stuff, its talking to the backend with nice classes. |
| 12:20.45 | crashanddie | lcuk: I said I'd release it, entirely different things |
| 12:21.05 | lcuk | Pending a few tests by @MohammadAG this afternoon, I will be releasing the Wifi injection driver for the #Nokia #N900 tonight. (No sources) |
| 12:21.07 | mece | lcuk, I know. So much funky new stuff, so little time.. |
| 12:21.09 | lcuk | release it with no sources |
| 12:21.17 | lcuk | you cant put it into free section with no sources |
| 12:21.26 | lcuk | the only way you can do it is to put it in non-free |
| 12:21.26 | crashanddie | lcuk: and? |
| 12:21.40 | MohammadAG51 | LOL @ nokia |
| 12:21.42 | crashanddie | lcuk: no, I can just put it on an FTP or even megaupload for that matter |
| 12:22.10 | MohammadAG51 | lcuk, actually he can |
| 12:22.20 | mece | HTC came to NokiaWorld with buses to get the people over to their gig though... |
| 12:22.20 | lcuk | hmm MohammadAG51 |
| 12:22.22 | MohammadAG51 | someone did that with unrar on the ubuntu repos |
| 12:22.38 | MohammadAG51 | just make a debian/rules o cp files |
| 12:22.39 | lcuk | did they get shouted at or is it still there? |
| 12:22.50 | Termana | mece, ouch |
| 12:23.09 | MohammadAG51 | still there afaik |
| 12:23.38 | MohammadAG51 | and i was a packaging noob months ago, so I kinda did the same with Open Remote Play (SORRY!) |
| 12:23.51 | *** join/#maemo bleeter (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 12:24.16 | lcuk | frals, could you let me borrow that trout of yours please |
| 12:24.52 | mece | yeah.. I'm out. ta. |
| 12:24.55 | *** join/#maemo arno0ob (~arno0ob@nor75-32-78-237-172-37.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:24.55 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~wazd@188.123.241.73) |
| 12:24.57 | *** part/#maemo mece (~mwikstro@mariehamn.abo.fi) |
| 12:26.33 | lcuk | MohammadAG51, when frals gets back |
| 12:26.46 | lcuk | get him to slap you with his trout |
| 12:26.58 | frals | lcuk: my precioussssssssssssssssssssssss |
| 12:29.25 | tybollt | slaps frals w/ MohammadAG51 |
| 12:30.51 | Termana | lcuk, I'd rather frals just leave his 'trout' right where it belongs |
| 12:30.57 | Termana | :P |
| 12:32.29 | MohammadAG51 | LOL |
| 12:33.25 | pupnik_ | frals tybollt with a MohammadAG51 |
| 12:34.29 | Termana | ted pupnik_ |
| 12:34.46 | Termana | Too bad it's not spelt right :P |
| 12:35.03 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 12:35.11 | *** join/#maemo d1b (~db@d1b.org) |
| 12:36.08 | *** join/#maemo bergie (~bergie@80.222.243.234) |
| 12:36.51 | crashanddie | bonus points if you make your quit message "Conversation Termanated" |
| 12:37.11 | *** join/#maemo muellisoft (~muelli@port-90795.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 12:37.37 | *** part/#maemo MohammadAG51 (~lagrange@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 12:37.48 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG51 (~lagrange@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 12:38.09 | *** join/#maemo dneary (~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
| 12:39.19 | *** join/#maemo KMFDM (~tKMFDM@ip5658167f.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 12:41.41 | DocScrutinizer | anybody tried modprobe --force <new-wlan-drivers>, on stock and uncrippled power kernel ? |
| 12:42.43 | *** join/#maemo Termana_ (~bradley@123-3-186-146.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 12:43.46 | DocScrutinizer | (can't get worse than kernel OOPS, no?) |
| 12:44.14 | *** join/#maemo Ryback_ (~ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 12:44.19 | *** join/#maemo hazl (59d45bc8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.212.91.200) |
| 12:44.23 | hazl | hi |
| 12:44.25 | MohammadAG51 | anything similar for insmod! |
| 12:44.41 | DocScrutinizer | eeh? |
| 12:44.43 | hazl | How does one get voice navigation in maperro? |
| 12:44.49 | DocScrutinizer | insmod is obsolete |
| 12:44.54 | MohammadAG51 | ?* |
| 12:45.00 | *** join/#maemo ZogG (~zoggrules@bzq-79-178-11-23.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 12:45.02 | hazl | For the life of me I can't make it work. |
| 12:45.42 | DocScrutinizer | modprobe is the 'new' insmod (since 10 years or what, now) |
| 12:47.36 | DocScrutinizer | man insmod: 2002-12-27 ... Most users will want to use modprobe(8) instead, which is more clever. |
| 12:48.19 | E0x | insmod don't load dependencies |
| 12:48.41 | ShadSEC | insmod in maemo doesnt have --force-magic |
| 12:50.25 | ShadSEC | or it does? mmmm |
| 12:53.23 | DocScrutinizer | --force == --force-vermagic and --force-modversion. == -f |
| 12:53.31 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@194.48.133.8) |
| 12:53.58 | DocScrutinizer | what's --force-magic ? |
| 12:54.25 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@194.48.133.8) |
| 12:54.48 | ShadSEC | opps, typo |
| 12:54.57 | hazl | Is anyone using mappero? |
| 12:55.29 | Surfa | if it happens not to crash |
| 12:55.31 | Surfa | sometimes yes |
| 12:56.11 | hazl | Is there any working and usable voice navigation for N900? |
| 12:56.26 | nidO | yes, mappero |
| 12:56.44 | Stskeeps | sygic |
| 12:56.44 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 12:57.00 | hazl | How do you enable voice? There is no sound in mappero. |
| 12:57.17 | E0x | in mouse is enable , but in a italian voice |
| 12:57.19 | nidO | in settings is an option called "voice guidance" or something equally obvious |
| 12:57.20 | nidO | tick it |
| 12:57.24 | E0x | i never bother change it |
| 12:57.31 | *** join/#maemo lmoura (~lauromour@186.212.115.231) |
| 12:58.24 | hazl | It is on. There is still no sound. No error either. |
| 12:58.34 | nidO | turned your phone off silent? |
| 12:58.46 | nidO | also, are you moving currently? |
| 13:00.18 | hazl | no phone is not on silent. I am not moving now. But I tested it earlyer by settin a goal and there was no sound. |
| 13:00.48 | alterego | Do goals have alarms? |
| 13:01.04 | alterego | Oh, you're talking about mapping :) |
| 13:03.59 | *** join/#maemo redeeman (~redeeman@62.242.235.90) |
| 13:04.01 | GAN900 | I can't believe Nokia World didn't see any MeeGo action. |
| 13:04.30 | Noma | MeeGo Conference comes in a month |
| 13:04.34 | redeeman | hello |
| 13:05.07 | redeeman | i have a problem, i cant use wifi at all anymore, it started around 1 month ago, basically, it cannot do ifconfig wlan0 up |
| 13:05.11 | redeeman | then it just hangs |
| 13:05.14 | redeeman | and wlancond starts using 100% cpu |
| 13:05.18 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@gprs47.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 13:05.32 | redeeman | in dmesg i see wl1251: error timeout waiting for the hardware to complete initialization |
| 13:05.32 | redeeman | just after it loads the firmware |
| 13:05.38 | redeeman | wl1251-bin.fw |
| 13:06.23 | redeeman | im on a very slow internet connection right now, the http conns drop all the time, so i cant really google about it |
| 13:06.30 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 13:06.31 | redeeman | anyone that knows anything about this? |
| 13:07.26 | lcuk | redeeman, how do i do ifup from the UI? |
| 13:07.35 | lcuk | i cant find it |
| 13:07.45 | redeeman | it does it before trying to search for accesspoints |
| 13:07.46 | lcuk | ifconfig ^ |
| 13:08.05 | redeeman | if it do it manually same issue |
| 13:08.34 | lcuk | so what, your network list just doesnt show anything to connect to? |
| 13:08.42 | redeeman | yep |
| 13:08.43 | GAN900 | Noma, doesn't have the same media coverage. |
| 13:08.46 | redeeman | it used to work ofc |
| 13:09.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | borked firmware file? |
| 13:09.07 | Noma | GAN900: but it would've been a bad mistake to release a meego phone with completely unfinished os |
| 13:09.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | redeeman: borked firmware file? |
| 13:09.24 | GAN900 | Noma, not release. |
| 13:09.29 | redeeman | DocScrutinizer, can you post md5sum of correct ones? |
| 13:09.31 | lcuk | GAN900, indeed, though some stuff got done hopefully |
| 13:09.35 | *** join/#maemo vzq_ (~vzq@a91-152-246-203.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 13:09.38 | lcuk | ari and jaffa and thp were there |
| 13:09.49 | lcuk | thp will at least be interested in the gtk stide somewhat |
| 13:09.53 | GAN900 | Noma, Nokia never has releases synch up with announcements |
| 13:09.54 | *** join/#maemo briglia (~briglia@201-75-99-7-ma.cpe.vivax.com.br) |
| 13:10.01 | lcuk | unless he is rebuilding gpodder from scratch |
| 13:10.03 | GAN900 | But some at least would've been nice |
| 13:10.14 | lcuk | still miffed at not going |
| 13:10.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | if you paste cmdline here to do, I'll do |
| 13:10.24 | GAN900 | Instead we get a nice little demonstration that Symbian is still Nokia's favorite. |
| 13:10.27 | *** join/#maemo chenca (~chenca@186.212.115.231) |
| 13:10.36 | lcuk | GAN900, understandably so |
| 13:10.39 | nidO | nothing wrong with that |
| 13:10.41 | lcuk | theres a lot of hard work gone into t |
| 13:10.45 | lcuk | and it does look good |
| 13:11.07 | Noma | if the would've said that "yeah we have a meego phone coming soon", who would've bought those symbian phones? of course the hype them now |
| 13:11.09 | redeeman | md5sum /lib/firmware/wl* |
| 13:11.22 | nidO | symbian's tried and tested and works well, even if socialtards whine that "symbian r sux" just because s60's interface is dated |
| 13:11.24 | *** join/#maemo chenca (~chenca@186.212.115.231) |
| 13:11.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | redeeman: sorry but c+p is all I can do right now |
| 13:11.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | ok |
| 13:11.47 | lcuk | goes walkabout, bbl |
| 13:11.57 | redeeman | alternatively if someone else could just upload those two files somewhere i'd apreciate it |
| 13:12.01 | GAN900 | nidO, note that the N900 is still Nokia's most powerful hardware. |
| 13:12.05 | crashanddie | haha |
| 13:12.12 | crashanddie | this quote seems like it was written for the iPhone |
| 13:12.23 | DocScrutinizer51 | 3a68787e5b1cb75e2a8c160ad79297ab /lib/firmware/wl1251-fw.bin |
| 13:12.24 | crashanddie | "If a machine can be made so that an idiot can use it, then only an idiot will use it." |
| 13:12.38 | nidO | GAN900: which nicely demonstrates how good s^3 is under the hood, being as all it's new lower-spec phones are running s^3 really nicely |
| 13:12.39 | yoasif | I'm writing a webapp and i want to make sure it has good maemo support |
| 13:12.43 | GAN900 | Betting on the "tried and true" rarely got anybody very far in the tech sector. |
| 13:12.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | 6d570e73a9cb1f686b2ad5cdbbdf6b83 /lib/firmware/wl1251-nvs.bin |
| 13:13.02 | yoasif | are there any guides to make sure i'm not doing anything too crazy like there are for iphone etc? |
| 13:13.05 | GAN900 | nidO, I'm not sure that's what I take away from it. |
| 13:13.05 | redeeman | same as here |
| 13:13.21 | alterego | yoasif: yes, on the forum nokia site. |
| 13:13.55 | GAN900 | Windows 98 runs really nicely on limited hardware, too. |
| 13:14.14 | *** join/#maemo willer_ (~willer@189.2.128.130) |
| 13:14.29 | Termana | nidO, symbian does suck, and their new user interface is no difference. I still think it sucks. |
| 13:14.57 | nidO | the fact remains, the new raft of devices from nokia are cheap, so there's not going to be crazy mad highspec hardware in them. all 4 of them are budget-to-midlevel price, and have relatively high-end though not groundbreaking hardware in them - nothing going for the cream of the top-end there, but that doesnt diminish what *has* come out |
| 13:15.14 | alterego | Termana: the "new" interface isn't realy knew. |
| 13:15.18 | alterego | Just more additions for touch devices. |
| 13:15.28 | alterego | Symbian^4 will hgave a whole new UI |
| 13:15.42 | alterego | Completely based on Qt |
| 13:15.47 | alterego | (thank god) :) |
| 13:19.30 | *** join/#maemo drizztbsd (~quassel@dynamic-adsl-78-12-157-104.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 13:19.33 | *** join/#maemo appnss (~appnss@87.Red-81-44-193.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 13:19.46 | jacekowski | alterego: symbian^3 |
| 13:21.54 | yoasif | alterego, if i just do a mobile ui optimized for iphone it should look ok on nokia right? :/ |
| 13:22.27 | alterego | yoasif: sure, I don't see why not. |
| 13:23.05 | yoasif | alterego, you think the guys here would be willing to play with it once i am done? |
| 13:23.50 | alterego | I'm sure someone will, try talking on talk.maemo.org |
| 13:24.10 | alterego | Why hasn't IPADD on tmo been banned yet? He's posted like four ads in the last hour |
| 13:25.53 | crashanddie | alterego: you must be mistaken, this is #maemo, not #tmo. |
| 13:28.25 | nidO | hm, nokia releasing their own charging mat then eh |
| 13:28.30 | *** join/#maemo setanta (~setanta@186.212.115.231) |
| 13:29.19 | jacekowski | why they don't make it compatible with stuff already on market |
| 13:29.23 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se) |
| 13:29.27 | nidO | sadly its not actually wireless |
| 13:29.28 | jacekowski | it will take 20 years for them to standarise on something |
| 13:29.37 | jacekowski | and it will end up like microusb |
| 13:29.37 | nidO | it seems to just be a dock with 4 charge cables |
| 13:31.38 | nidO | shame really, an obvious play for any of the big manus seems to me to pick up the tech powermat or similar use, and start building the inductors into all their future phones |
| 13:32.45 | *** join/#maemo rodarvus (~rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus) |
| 13:34.03 | *** join/#maemo an0therb0x (~priest@pool-173-66-165-9.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 13:34.05 | frals | nidO: its a dock with 4 cables and some usb slots for plugging in whatever brand chargers and comes with se/lg/samsung adapters or something like that |
| 13:34.17 | *** join/#maemo carloscesa (~carlos@189.2.193.178) |
| 13:34.22 | nidO | yer see up, figured that out right after my initial excitement :( |
| 13:36.42 | *** part/#maemo an0therb0x (~priest@pool-173-66-165-9.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 13:36.44 | *** join/#maemo melmoth (~pamadio@nat/redhat/x-bwrnfqucjropdlkr) |
| 13:37.05 | frals | ah, my bad |
| 13:37.51 | nidO | I just saw the picture before actually looking carefully and reading, had figured that might be a prelude to building induction charging into the phones or batteries :p |
| 13:44.35 | *** join/#maemo pinheiro (~pinheiro@bl16-216-171.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 13:45.24 | *** join/#maemo felipec (~felipec@192.100.124.156) |
| 13:45.25 | marnanel | the last few days, hildon-desktop has been doing the fade-in-fade-out transitions for putting a single-line note up, without actually stopping to show me a note. This is on fremantle. Does that sound familiar to anyone? |
| 13:48.42 | *** join/#maemo juliank (~juliank@ubuntu/member/juliank) |
| 13:49.51 | *** join/#maemo kthomas (~kthomas@IGLD-84-229-69-219.inter.net.il) |
| 13:50.05 | GAN900 | marnanel, reboot? |
| 13:51.05 | lcuk | marnanel, ^ |
| 13:51.22 | marnanel | has done so, and it still does it |
| 13:51.57 | marnanel | It does display notes properly when there are notes to display, but it just keeps running this transition every ten or twenty seconds the rest of the time |
| 13:52.11 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@p1227-ipbf3907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 13:52.34 | lcuk | marnanel, screenshot |
| 13:53.10 | marnanel | lcuk: the transition takes ~ half a second, it will be very difficult to get a screenshot of it |
| 13:53.42 | lcuk | marnanel, how often? |
| 13:54.03 | marnanel | every ten or twenty seconds. I could time it if you like |
| 13:54.44 | lcuk | hmm you have something trying to sign in? |
| 13:54.56 | lcuk | it doesnt sound familiar to me |
| 13:55.24 | lcuk | but since nowadays theres soooooo many apps available thats not difficult |
| 13:56.08 | *** join/#maemo felipec_ (~felipec@nat/nokia/x-cmsosodkmphgyimy) |
| 13:57.40 | *** join/#maemo zs (~zs@188-223-195-142.zone14.bethere.co.uk) |
| 13:59.21 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:00.04 | DocScrutinizer | marnanel: which transition? |
| 14:00.06 | marnanel | will try it with all IM accounts disabled and see |
| 14:00.26 | DocScrutinizer | fade-in/out? |
| 14:00.48 | marnanel | DocScrutinizer: the one which is used to display a single-line note that drops down from the top of the screen, causing the background to blur, and then rises up again, unblurring the background |
| 14:01.43 | DocScrutinizer | and you say background blurs and unblurs without any yellow notifier showing? |
| 14:02.43 | marnanel | yes |
| 14:03.04 | DocScrutinizer | please check exact frequency, and variance in freq |
| 14:03.07 | MohammadAG51 | it's haunted |
| 14:03.27 | MNZ | it's bored |
| 14:03.40 | DocScrutinizer | I remember to have seen some "notify every 30s about xyz" |
| 14:04.31 | DocScrutinizer | if transition is 'too slow' for configured display time of notifier, it might easily look like transitions are for no apparent reason |
| 14:05.19 | DocScrutinizer | ...where nofier is destructed before transition had a chance to display it |
| 14:05.26 | DocScrutinizer | notifier* |
| 14:05.48 | marnanel | will time it for a few iterations |
| 14:06.00 | DocScrutinizer | k, |
| 14:06.35 | *** join/#maemo ruskie (ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |
| 14:06.36 | DocScrutinizer | also check if there are any updates in HAM, new SMS, mails, IM msgs, dunno what else |
| 14:06.44 | DocScrutinizer | missed calls |
| 14:07.43 | *** join/#maemo zs (~zs@188-223-195-142.zone14.bethere.co.uk) |
| 14:07.57 | DocScrutinizer | damn, this must be annoying :-S |
| 14:09.40 | DocScrutinizer | is this notification a d-bus call usually, or is it a direct lib api call? |
| 14:09.48 | DocScrutinizer | of hildon desktop |
| 14:10.09 | DocScrutinizer | cause if it's d-bus you got good chances to track it down |
| 14:10.14 | *** join/#maemo pinheiro (~pinheiro@bl16-216-171.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 14:10.44 | marnanel | As far as I can remember it's triggered by a particular X property on the newly-created window |
| 14:10.54 | marnanel | though it's been a few months since I looked at it |
| 14:11.10 | DocScrutinizer | no idea, no devel here |
| 14:11.24 | marnanel | d-bus would have been nice, but I'm pretty sure it isn't |
| 14:12.04 | marnanel | well, I can write a script that checks for newly-created windows |
| 14:12.17 | DocScrutinizer | pangalactic ltrace? X-P |
| 14:12.45 | lindi- | that's called systemtap :) |
| 14:12.53 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@gprs53.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 14:13.21 | marnanel | lindi-: what is, a way to check for newly-created windows? |
| 14:13.35 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5/strace#How_to_Trace_All_the_Running_Applications |
| 14:13.49 | DocScrutinizer | gnhnhnnnhnhnnn |
| 14:14.13 | marnanel | good grief, no |
| 14:14.16 | marnanel | I don't want to strace it |
| 14:15.03 | marnanel | all I need to do is request property changes on the root window, which will tell me when the new window is created; then I can request the pid of the owner of that window, and I will know what app is putting them up |
| 14:15.08 | *** join/#maemo zs (~zs@188-223-195-142.zone14.bethere.co.uk) |
| 14:15.13 | *** join/#maemo pinheiro (~pinheiro@bl16-216-171.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 14:15.22 | marnanel | will try this after work and see how it goes |
| 14:15.34 | lindi- | marnanel: xtrace might help |
| 14:15.49 | *** join/#maemo felipec (~felipec@nat/nokia/x-himjiaorgzgjuxsj) |
| 14:15.50 | lindi- | although I have only used it with one application at a time |
| 14:16.11 | marnanel | lindi-: thanks |
| 14:16.38 | GAN900 | Portrait detection is really terrible |
| 14:16.52 | GAN900 | I hope there's a lock switch in MeeGo. |
| 14:17.03 | *** join/#maemo lmoura (~lauromour@186.212.115.231) |
| 14:17.12 | DocScrutinizer | portrait detection? ;-D |
| 14:17.30 | DocScrutinizer | camera autotrigger on smile? X-P |
| 14:18.33 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: if you're talking bout orientation sensing via g-meter, it's probably fubar in meego atm |
| 14:19.27 | DocScrutinizer | as g-meter doesn't even have a proper kernel driver |
| 14:19.58 | DocScrutinizer | the meego one is for externally powered joysticks :-P |
| 14:20.11 | X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: Afaik it works in the meego snapshots. |
| 14:20.19 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 14:20.38 | *** join/#maemo johnsu01` (~user@fsf/staff/johnsu01) |
| 14:21.12 | DocScrutinizer | sure it 'works' - by sensorfw polling g-meter via I2C all the time(!) at a sampling rate of 20Hz or something similarly insane |
| 14:21.59 | DocScrutinizer | you for sure don't want to do this on a battery powered modile device |
| 14:22.54 | DocScrutinizer | I mentioned it in #meego-arm - answer: "is it upstream?" as if I knew or as if it even mattered |
| 14:23.53 | *** join/#maemo dailylinux (~test@s21-06205.dsl.no.powertech.net) |
| 14:24.55 | DocScrutinizer | hell, I'm checking and side-to-side reading LIS302 drivers for >2h, and all I earn is a "is it upstream" :-S |
| 14:25.27 | DocScrutinizer | meh, that's meego |
| 14:26.33 | Stskeeps | no, actually, we said "send patches", but sure.. |
| 14:26.57 | *** join/#maemo zs (~zs@188-223-195-142.zone14.bethere.co.uk) |
| 14:27.25 | Stskeeps | patches should be developed in upstream, not in a distro |
| 14:28.58 | DocScrutinizer | I couldn't care less |
| 14:29.06 | Stskeeps | fair enough |
| 14:29.17 | X-Fade | Maybe that is the real problem though :) |
| 14:30.46 | DocScrutinizer | I'm also not interested in 'the real problems of meego" - I just reviewed a meego driver and found it completely broken and pointed to a better implementation. I'm neither the developer nor maintainer of any of the drivers or distros |
| 14:30.53 | Stskeeps | nor are we |
| 14:31.07 | *** join/#maemo pyther (~pyther@unaffiliated/pyther) |
| 14:31.08 | pyther | Hi |
| 14:31.11 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, thought you were actively developing meego |
| 14:31.18 | Stskeeps | we don't develop the entire kernel. |
| 14:31.22 | pyther | Is there any way to trouble shoot why alarmd doesn't switch profiles sometimes? |
| 14:31.35 | lcuk | anyone with knowledge of how other systems/distros/gorups manage accelerometer |
| 14:31.55 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, you have mentioned the mode sensing callback/interupt thing before |
| 14:32.02 | lcuk | do other drivers make use of it? |
| 14:32.10 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: i'm really tired of your negativity. i continously extend a hand to help you or make you able to do things, but you return with paranoia, grumpiness, generalization and insults. it blocks your own work and makes it difficult to defend your behaviour and attitudes. so, i'm done talking to you. |
| 14:32.11 | DocScrutinizer | maemo driver does |
| 14:32.15 | lcuk | or do most places use the polling mechanism |
| 14:33.15 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: what in >><DocScrutinizer> ooh, thought you were actively developing meego<< is an insult or negative, in your world? |
| 14:34.32 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, which driver needs updating/changing/listening for for this interrupt? |
| 14:34.36 | *** join/#maemo dos11 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 14:34.40 | lcuk | get practical |
| 14:34.46 | lcuk | i dont think anywhere uses it |
| 14:34.51 | DocScrutinizer | lis302dl |
| 14:35.05 | lcuk | is it something skills are available to modify |
| 14:35.13 | Stskeeps | general attitude and that wasn't it. if you had just had a sane outlook on the world instead of your shitty attitude, you'd have been much further. |
| 14:35.17 | lcuk | or does it need a whole new low->high level full interface building? |
| 14:35.28 | Stskeeps | and a shame to watch a good talent go to waste on stupid attitude. |
| 14:35.29 | DocScrutinizer | in maemo, in meego it's called lis3dl02x or something like that |
| 14:36.52 | *** join/#maemo plq (~plq@88.249.173.198) |
| 14:37.03 | *** join/#maemo setanta (~setanta@186.212.115.231) |
| 14:38.27 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: the maemo implementation is mostly sane and comprehensive, while the upstream driver used in meego is 'crippled' and not optimized for power conservation |
| 14:38.55 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, no |
| 14:38.59 | lcuk | maemo polls too |
| 14:39.31 | lcuk | (at least I think it does) |
| 14:39.55 | lcuk | if the chip has this cool interuppt callback on motion it would be great |
| 14:40.00 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: as I'm not familiar with all the git stacking and whatnot, I can't comment on anything except the names are slightly different and the maemo one is better |
| 14:40.13 | lcuk | but it would need threading through from the low to high level |
| 14:40.34 | X-Fade | afaik it has interrupts on thresholds. |
| 14:40.45 | DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: exactly |
| 14:40.47 | RST38h | <yawn> |
| 14:40.51 | X-Fade | Still needs to be powered up though ;) |
| 14:40.52 | lcuk | yeah which would be really good for power consumption |
| 14:40.58 | lcuk | bah! |
| 14:41.02 | DocScrutinizer | yep, sure |
| 14:41.12 | lcuk | X-Fade, starting and stopping my computer costs more than idling it :P |
| 14:41.28 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: lis302 eats some uA on active standby |
| 14:42.09 | lcuk | and waking it up and sleeping it many times a second doesnt? |
| 14:42.14 | DocScrutinizer | considerably less than breathing light average |
| 14:45.39 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: (threading thru from low to high) aiui a sane implementation like the maemo one is using uevents |
| 14:45.54 | *** join/#maemo hannesw_ (~hannes@80-121-90-83.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 14:46.18 | *** join/#maemo GNUtoo|laptop (~gnutoo@host55-144-dynamic.54-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:46.30 | DocScrutinizer | you're setting threshold in /sys and get a notification when a orientation change is detected |
| 14:46.48 | DocScrutinizer | otherwise just idle instead of poll@40Hz |
| 14:47.11 | lcuk | great |
| 14:47.21 | lcuk | so, how do we relay this information to the required people |
| 14:47.30 | DocScrutinizer | dunno |
| 14:47.31 | GNUtoo|laptop | hi, where can I find some informations on the DSPs? I'd like to decode high res videos(not within maemo but on my n900, another distro is used) what is better for decoding videos? the DSP or the CPU+NEON+mplayer |
| 14:47.43 | lcuk | so they can make an attempt at building this module and testing its power drain for reals |
| 14:48.02 | lcuk | GNUtoo|laptop, idk, speak with ti perhaps |
| 14:48.15 | GNUtoo|laptop | ah? |
| 14:48.17 | lcuk | or test it yourself |
| 14:48.21 | GNUtoo|laptop | ok |
| 14:48.29 | GNUtoo|laptop | then how do I use the DSP? |
| 14:48.38 | GNUtoo|laptop | I need gstreamer right? |
| 14:49.06 | *** join/#maemo setanta (~setanta@186.212.115.231) |
| 14:49.20 | *** join/#maemo jpinx-eeepc (~johnp@ppp-124-120-18-150.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 14:49.24 | lcuk | technically no |
| 14:49.50 | *** join/#maemo b0tz (~b0tz@unaffiliated/b0tz) |
| 14:50.24 | GNUtoo|laptop | ok |
| 14:50.36 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, any idea if the interface is available o nthe maemo driver already? |
| 14:50.39 | GNUtoo|laptop | I was said mplayer couldn't use the DSP |
| 14:50.59 | GNUtoo|laptop | maybe I should ask in #oe or #beagle |
| 14:51.03 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: just checking |
| 14:51.05 | lcuk | GNUtoo|laptop, install mplayer and see |
| 14:51.29 | GNUtoo|laptop | lcuk, stock big buck bunny 420p plays well |
| 14:51.42 | *** join/#maemo yoasif (~asif@107.sub-75-193-34.myvzw.com) |
| 14:51.53 | lcuk | then your life is complete already? |
| 14:51.55 | X-Fade | GNUtoo|laptop: Sure, 720 does too. |
| 14:52.12 | GNUtoo|laptop | really? |
| 14:52.12 | GNUtoo|laptop | wow |
| 14:52.21 | GNUtoo|laptop | I'll try |
| 14:53.04 | lcuk | GNUtoo|laptop, out of academic interest which distro are you using where thats not working? |
| 14:54.32 | GNUtoo|laptop | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:54.32 | GNUtoo|laptop | SHR |
| 14:54.32 | GNUtoo|laptop | it's very new |
| 14:54.34 | GNUtoo|laptop | we got it booting some days ago |
| 14:54.37 | GNUtoo|laptop | so... |
| 14:54.51 | GNUtoo|laptop | it's based on angstrom |
| 14:54.54 | lcuk | shr looks sweet |
| 14:54.58 | lcuk | yeah i have seen it :) |
| 14:55.04 | GNUtoo|laptop | mplayer big_buck_bunny_720p_surround.avi -vo x11 -ao alsa |
| 14:55.08 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
| 14:55.12 | GNUtoo|laptop | that's what I used |
| 14:55.15 | GNUtoo|laptop | should I try xv |
| 14:55.16 | GNUtoo|laptop | ? |
| 14:55.24 | lcuk | yes :) |
| 14:55.25 | X-Fade | Why would you ever use x11? |
| 14:55.27 | lcuk | try anything |
| 14:55.41 | GNUtoo|laptop | because of that: |
| 14:55.52 | GNUtoo|laptop | Source image dimensions are too high: 1280x720 (maximum is 800x480) |
| 14:56.12 | GNUtoo|laptop | I'll try that: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=26538 |
| 14:56.28 | X-Fade | Yeah, so why would you want to have 720p on a 480p screen? |
| 14:56.37 | GNUtoo|laptop | same issue |
| 14:56.42 | X-Fade | That won't make it any better :) |
| 14:56.47 | GNUtoo|laptop | I know |
| 14:56.49 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/* |
| 14:56.50 | GNUtoo|laptop | use case: |
| 14:57.03 | GNUtoo|laptop | you've got a 720p only version on the net |
| 14:57.05 | GNUtoo|laptop | or: |
| 14:57.06 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/i2c/chips/lis302dl.c |
| 14:57.17 | GNUtoo|laptop | you've got a laptop and you don't want to transcode |
| 14:57.26 | GNUtoo|laptop | both uses cases are valid |
| 14:57.42 | X-Fade | Anyway, omap3 can play 720p with proper hardware accel. |
| 14:58.01 | MNZ | GNUtoo|laptop, conclusion I have reach re:DSP is as a general rule of thumb, it's a pain |
| 14:58.06 | GNUtoo|laptop | wonder if it's a legend, because koen used no sound and similar settings |
| 14:58.21 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 14:58.26 | rmrfchik | hmm, htc announces desire Z with keyboard |
| 14:58.26 | GNUtoo|laptop | DSP can do 720p? |
| 14:58.29 | DocScrutinizer | hi GNUtoo|laptop |
| 14:58.32 | GNUtoo|laptop | hi DocScrutinizer |
| 14:58.47 | GNUtoo|laptop | DocScrutinizer, btw why were you angry for the battery script? |
| 14:58.52 | GNUtoo|laptop | didn't understood |
| 14:58.53 | MNZ | GNUtoo|laptop, google gst-dsp |
| 14:58.57 | GNUtoo|laptop | ok |
| 14:59.04 | DocScrutinizer | GNUtoo|laptop: doesn't belong here |
| 14:59.27 | GNUtoo|laptop | wow |
| 14:59.28 | GNUtoo|laptop | http://code.google.com/p/gst-dsp/ |
| 14:59.33 | GNUtoo|laptop | ok |
| 14:59.44 | RST38h | "...the name "S60" never passed a speaker's lips once. For years, executives would never say the word "Symbian". Now "S60" has been airbrushed from history. Like N-Gage, it never existed at all.: |
| 14:59.46 | GNUtoo|laptop | what do you mean DocScrutinizer |
| 14:59.54 | GNUtoo|laptop | doens't belong in #maemo ? |
| 15:00.35 | Surfa | RST38h, not really comparable |
| 15:01.14 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ|n900 (~user@2.69.190.70) |
| 15:03.09 | MNZ | Any ideas which one of the mapping apps can be preloaded with maps (besides ovi) |
| 15:03.19 | nidO | mappero |
| 15:03.33 | nidO | and sygic |
| 15:03.41 | *** join/#maemo rmoravcik (~rmoravcik@gtsgw.ttc.cz) |
| 15:03.47 | nidO | though if you want comprehensive maps from mappero you're going to need a boatload of disk space |
| 15:05.28 | MNZ | mappero was nice, last time I used it. But all the kings googling and all the kings men couldn't preload mappero again :/ |
| 15:05.33 | alterego | Quite like the look of the E7 |
| 15:06.08 | nidO | open mappero > options > maps > manage maps |
| 15:06.22 | nidO | follow prompts to download maps using various options |
| 15:06.42 | *** join/#maemo smooph (~alschroe@sandworm.riedberg.ads.uni-frankfurt.de) |
| 15:07.45 | *** join/#maemo rmoravcik (~rmoravcik@gtsgw.ttc.cz) |
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| 15:27.44 | mrmoku | DocScrutinizer: do you know in what state the meego kernel for n900 is? |
| 15:27.54 | GNUtoo|laptop | MNZ, nice I've compiled it |
| 15:28.05 | GNUtoo|laptop | MNZ, now how can I use it? |
| 15:28.10 | DocScrutinizer | mrmoku: nope, not really |
| 15:28.14 | mrmoku | k |
| 15:28.25 | DocScrutinizer | mrmoku: /join #meego-arm |
| 15:28.58 | mrmoku | should have asked there, yes :P |
| 15:30.15 | MNZ | GNUtoo|laptop, sorry but I'm clueless. You will need the dspbridge kernel module though, don't think that's part of gst-dsp |
| 15:30.38 | MNZ | My guess is load dspbridge, then test using gst-launch |
| 15:30.46 | GNUtoo|laptop | ok |
| 15:31.08 | GNUtoo|laptop | no way to have that work automatically like: |
| 15:31.11 | GNUtoo|laptop | launch totem |
| 15:31.15 | GNUtoo|laptop | and it just works |
| 15:31.16 | GNUtoo|laptop | ? |
| 15:32.11 | MNZ | you are going to have to use the gst sinks it provides for decoding, how each player deals with creating a gst pipeline (is there a system default, etc) is another story, one that I don't know |
| 15:33.15 | GNUtoo|laptop | ok |
| 15:33.21 | GNUtoo|laptop | I'll try gst-launch then |
| 15:33.26 | *** join/#maemo yofel_ (~quassel@unaffiliated/yofel) |
| 15:33.35 | GNUtoo|laptop | felipec wrote it |
| 15:34.00 | GNUtoo|laptop | but he's not there currently |
| 15:34.02 | MNZ | yep, and he just so happens to be a #maemo idler :D |
| 15:34.48 | *** join/#maemo ohwhyme (~ohwhyme@81-178-200-200.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 15:35.16 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: ping |
| 15:35.28 | MohammadAG51 | pong |
| 15:35.32 | GNUtoo|laptop | no idea of gst-launch commandline args |
| 15:35.34 | GNUtoo|laptop | ? |
| 15:35.42 | GNUtoo|laptop | I pushed the .so in the right location |
| 15:35.44 | GNUtoo|laptop | but then? |
| 15:35.54 | GNUtoo|laptop | I'll try decodebin2 |
| 15:36.36 | *** join/#maemo pH5 (~ph5@e178217184.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:37.05 | MNZ | you'll want "gst-launch filesrc location="/path/to/file" ! demuxer ! gst-dsp-decoder ! sink" |
| 15:37.27 | MNZ | where demuxer and gst-dsp-decoder are left as an exercise for the reader |
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| 15:45.47 | *** join/#maemo frenchy (~frenchy@cpe-071-070-128-177.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 15:45.52 | frenchy | ok im gonna try and get help one more time before selling my n810 for parts, im pretty sure i bricked it hardcore, can anyone help? |
| 15:46.44 | MNZ | what did you do? |
| 15:48.43 | GNUtoo|laptop | ok found that: |
| 15:48.44 | GNUtoo|laptop | http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard/gst-dsp |
| 15:49.04 | GNUtoo|laptop | thanks MNZ |
| 15:49.09 | frenchy | tried installing mamona and now i dont even get the nokia screen, its just dead |
| 15:49.31 | GNUtoo|laptop | the issue was that: |
| 15:49.34 | GNUtoo|laptop | gst-dsp-decoder |
| 15:49.41 | GNUtoo|laptop | I didn't know what one to use |
| 15:49.46 | lcuk | i hope thats not a generic problem |
| 15:49.47 | GNUtoo|laptop | I'll try the elinux howto |
| 15:49.52 | GNUtoo|laptop | (I know a bit gstreamer) |
| 15:50.15 | lcuk | frenchy, I assume you did discuss this with the manoma guys |
| 15:50.25 | lcuk | and ask if anyone else has experienced this? |
| 15:50.35 | *** join/#maemo mardi (~mardi@81.2.94.41) |
| 15:50.56 | frenchy | nobody answered in that channel, it seems pretty dead |
| 15:51.17 | lcuk | perhaps they tried installing manoma in the channel itself |
| 15:51.25 | tripzero | zing! |
| 15:51.26 | *** join/#maemo mardi (~mardi@41.94.2.81.in-addr.arpa) |
| 15:51.29 | frenchy | this is like the 3rd time ive been in here about this, i just figured id try one more time before i sell it for parts |
| 15:51.37 | *** join/#maemo wazd_n900 (~user@83.149.8.86) |
| 15:51.49 | lcuk | well did you try it with a known charged battery? |
| 15:51.53 | lcuk | as suggested |
| 15:51.55 | wazd_n900 | hello again people :) |
| 15:52.00 | lcuk | because if its totally not doing anything |
| 15:52.04 | frenchy | lcuk, yeah it was charged |
| 15:52.11 | lcuk | i know it *was* charged |
| 15:52.25 | lcuk | but battery meters lie and IDK what sort of chrging stuff it has |
| 15:52.30 | lcuk | and if it flattens battery etc |
| 15:52.43 | lcuk | so, like I said, have you tried it with a known charged valid battery? |
| 15:53.01 | frenchy | lcuk, well even if the battery is dead now shouldnt it at least do something when i plug it into the charger? |
| 15:53.09 | *** join/#maemo Nandan (~a@122.167.251.200) |
| 15:53.15 | lcuk | IDK - you removed the OS and put something else on |
| 15:53.19 | frenchy | lcuk, i also tested the battery with a multimeter and it seems alive |
| 15:53.24 | lcuk | yeah |
| 15:53.33 | lcuk | i have 9volt batteries that wont run anything |
| 15:53.39 | lcuk | but i still get a shock on my tongue |
| 15:53.58 | lcuk | so I am guessing the answer to my question is "no" |
| 15:54.14 | Nandan | can some one guide me to compile latest ffmpeg from svn for N900 |
| 15:54.23 | lcuk | i suggest if you know someone with an n810 to borrow their working battery for a minute |
| 15:54.30 | frenchy | lcuk, well i have a new battery coming in the mail that i will test when it gets here but i am afraid i fried the bootloader and from what ive read it need s acold flash |
| 15:54.38 | frenchy | which is beyond my expertise |
| 15:54.53 | lcuk | well until you see some signs of life you dont know what it is |
| 15:55.12 | DocScrutinizer | frenchy: a silly question: what *is* mamona? |
| 15:55.16 | frenchy | lcuk, i dont know anyone with one, |
| 15:55.23 | frenchy | DocScrutinizer, just another distro |
| 15:55.33 | *** join/#maemo inz (inz@maemo-hackers.org) |
| 15:55.47 | wazd_n900 | dockane: distro from INdT |
| 15:55.54 | wazd_n900 | oops |
| 15:56.18 | MNZ | DocScrutinizer, apparently, something openembedded based, http://dev.openbossa.org/trac/mamona/ |
| 15:56.42 | RST38h | wazzzd |
| 15:56.47 | DocScrutinizer | thnaks everybody |
| 15:57.10 | *** join/#maemo baraujo (~Bruno@189.2.128.130) |
| 15:57.56 | frenchy | im looking for contact info right now |
| 15:58.02 | frenchy | for mamon |
| 15:58.03 | frenchy | a |
| 15:58.04 | *** join/#maemo igagis (~igagis@cs181109083.pp.htv.fi) |
| 15:58.51 | frenchy | everytime i talk to people about this they say its impossible to completely brick this device, has anyone heard of any accounts where the bootloader got hosed and killed the device? |
| 15:59.17 | jacekowski | there is hardcoded bootloader in rom of cpu |
| 15:59.51 | SpeedEvil | This does not mean that it is impossible to brick from a consumer point of view. |
| 15:59.52 | jacekowski | that can't be hosed |
| 16:00.08 | GNUtoo|laptop | abuot mamona: |
| 16:00.09 | GNUtoo|laptop | #mamona |
| 16:00.17 | SpeedEvil | The hardcoded bootloader as I understand it cannot be used to flash over USB |
| 16:00.38 | Gh0sty | i guess an EMP could hose the bootloader :p |
| 16:00.39 | timeless | rm, it looks like modest didn't eat the email i moved |
| 16:00.46 | frenchy | jacekowski, ok so is it possible to brick it in such a way that the only way to recover is a cold flash? |
| 16:01.04 | SpeedEvil | frenchy: Above comments relate to n900. Sorry - just scrolled up |
| 16:01.17 | timeless | instead it lied to me about where it put it... |
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| 16:02.17 | *** join/#maemo dmj726_n9001 (~user@host-81-81.flgaroy.clients.pavlovmedia.com) |
| 16:02.25 | tripzero | blast those EMPs!! |
| 16:04.14 | *** join/#maemo raster (~raster@enlightenment/developer/raster) |
| 16:04.27 | lcuk | timeless, it caught up then? |
| 16:04.50 | timeless | no |
| 16:04.57 | timeless | i had tried to move one message |
| 16:05.36 | DocScrutinizer | raster: moinmoin :-) |
| 16:06.21 | timeless | there's a folder picker, and you can go 'up' to the device level (above account) and create a folder. the folder ended up insideth |
| 16:06.29 | timeless | the account |
| 16:06.41 | timeless | this vkb sucks |
| 16:08.08 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@IGLD-84-229-158-14.inter.net.il) |
| 16:09.07 | DocScrutinizer | frenchy: jacekowski claims he did coldflash on N900 via USB. For N810 situation is unclear |
| 16:09.07 | pyther | Every now and then alarmed fails to switch my profile. Is there anyway to troubleshoot this? |
| 16:09.08 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
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| 16:09.44 | frenchy | DocScrutinizer, Yeah ive seen the n900 coldflash but cant find any info on the n810 doing it |
| 16:10.19 | *** join/#maemo silbo_ (~quassel@193.40.194.207) |
| 16:10.34 | DocScrutinizer | pyther: hmm, alarmed logs? running alarmed from terminal, or even check syslog etc for alarmd (!=alarmed) logs? |
| 16:10.35 | *** join/#maemo felipec (~felipec@nat/nokia/x-mlbfuiclrapnvneb) |
| 16:11.12 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@pd95c4acb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:11.20 | timeless | how do people find events in a city? |
| 16:11.20 | pyther | DocScrutinizer: how can I view syslog messages? |
| 16:11.57 | SpeedEvil | pyther: apt-get install syslogd |
| 16:12.01 | SpeedEvil | pyther: but it's broken |
| 16:12.06 | MohammadAG51 | cat /var/log/syslog |
| 16:12.14 | SpeedEvil | pyther: You need to - after boot - killall -HUP syslodg |
| 16:12.15 | SpeedEvil | gd |
| 16:12.19 | DocScrutinizer | depending on whether or not you installed syslogd, you'll either look into /var/log/* or do a dmesg |
| 16:12.29 | SpeedEvil | as it puts the syslog in /home/user/var/log/syslogd |
| 16:12.41 | SpeedEvil | and it puts it there before /home is mounted |
| 16:13.07 | pyther | ok where can I find the alarmed log? |
| 16:13.11 | timeless | it's always been sysklogd for me.. |
| 16:13.27 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ouch |
| 16:13.36 | *** join/#maemo frade (~ivan@a88-114-94-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:13.45 | DocScrutinizer | pyther: no idea. ask Shapeshifter |
| 16:13.50 | SpeedEvil | At least - I assume that's the iussue - I haven't investigated beyond killall -HuP fixing it |
| 16:14.57 | pyther | hmm. I better not install syslog because I'll likey forget I'll have to do that |
| 16:16.48 | raster | DocScrutinizer: docz |
| 16:17.43 | *** join/#maemo sleipnir (~sleipnir@p4FDD1531.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 16:25.33 | ShadowJK | new sygic10 is pretty nice |
| 16:26.19 | ShadowJK | driving while listening to streaming internet radio with fm transmitter, the music pauses and voice directions come through car speakers, and then music resumes :) |
| 16:28.02 | ShadowJK | it's focus-stealing :( but not self-topping luckily.. still.. can't type outside sygic maps when it's running, and the keep-display-lit stopped working somewhere during the trip, possibly after lots of switching back and forth to media player.. |
| 16:28.45 | *** join/#maemo nidO (nidO@dsl-fixed-94-30-53-17.interdsl.co.uk) |
| 16:29.50 | alterego | Wow, the preorders for the N8 are apparently the best they've ever had for a device. |
| 16:30.04 | *** join/#maemo mikhas (~michael@cs109108031096.pp.htv.fi) |
| 16:30.08 | alterego | I have to admit, I'm sort of tempted :D |
| 16:30.16 | Stskeeps | hope they don't fuck it up like n900 was.. |
| 16:30.17 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 16:30.40 | ShadowJK | lol yeah that was my first thought too |
| 16:30.52 | alterego | The N900 was just too well advertised for its' own good .. |
| 16:31.14 | alterego | I hope the N8 doesn't fail like the N97 and N96 :) |
| 16:31.46 | satmd | waves |
| 16:31.46 | ShadowJK | N96 was fully deserved |
| 16:31.58 | *** join/#maemo Summeli (summeli@irc.summeli.fi) |
| 16:32.11 | ShadowJK | it was like N95 with enough RAM to actually boot the os successfully, aka N95-8G |
| 16:32.16 | alterego | I got the N96 because on paper it looked like just an updated N95 8G |
| 16:32.27 | ShadowJK | except 200⬠more expensive |
| 16:32.41 | MohammadAG51 | and a crappier slider |
| 16:32.42 | ShadowJK | oh it looked exactly like N95-8 on paper to me :) |
| 16:32.57 | alterego | Except it has 16G and a micro SD |
| 16:33.01 | RST38h | N95 was a low-res brick |
| 16:33.03 | alterego | Oh, and DVB-H |
| 16:33.08 | RST38h | N96 was another ow-res brick |
| 16:33.18 | MohammadAG51 | the N95 was nice tbh |
| 16:33.30 | alterego | The N95 8 was the best phone I've ever had. |
| 16:33.31 | RST38h | No idea why everyone is still considering them "good" |
| 16:33.32 | MohammadAG51 | I still think it's the best nokia phone |
| 16:33.39 | alterego | I'd still gladly use it today. |
| 16:33.53 | MohammadAG51 | I still do |
| 16:34.01 | MohammadAG51 | sometimes to charge my N900's battery |
| 16:34.03 | RST38h | E70 has been the best S60 phone ever |
| 16:34.16 | steinex | my |
| 16:34.19 | ShadowJK | if I had to use a symbian phone I'd go back to N810 :) |
| 16:34.22 | RST38h | Actually looked and felt like a PHONE. Had the best keyboard ever. |
| 16:34.37 | steinex | anyone here from germany that uses supl.google.com instead of supl.nokia.com? |
| 16:34.42 | nidO | I really really liked my e90 |
| 16:34.45 | MohammadAG51 | hmm |
| 16:34.47 | steinex | is it better / does it work at all? |
| 16:34.49 | MohammadAG51 | alterego, actually |
| 16:34.54 | ShadowJK | i thought supl.google.com was dead |
| 16:35.03 | steinex | mh |
| 16:35.06 | MohammadAG51 | doesn't the N96 lack the gfx chip the N95 had? |
| 16:35.24 | steinex | actually i'm looking for an alternative to supl.nokia.com in germany because it doesn't work that well... |
| 16:35.25 | alterego | MohammadAG51: erm, no, it has the same chip |
| 16:35.28 | steinex | any tips? |
| 16:35.35 | alterego | steinex: supl.google.com |
| 16:35.36 | MohammadAG51 | alterego, sure? |
| 16:35.41 | MohammadAG51 | wasn't it removed |
| 16:35.44 | MohammadAG51 | i remember it was |
| 16:35.56 | alterego | Maybe I'm wrong, I thought it was the same. |
| 16:36.02 | alterego | Could have been removed in the N97? |
| 16:36.06 | MohammadAG51 | the N96 was also dual core afaik |
| 16:36.15 | ShadowJK | i think they only released drivers for n95 |
| 16:36.30 | MohammadAG51 | not sure, but i remember the N96 lacked something huge the N95 had |
| 16:36.39 | *** part/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@87.213.105.245) |
| 16:36.40 | MohammadAG51 | the N95 was sold with the accelerometer hidden xD |
| 16:36.47 | *** join/#maemo th3hate (~Chrome@bzq-79-182-45-139.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 16:36.47 | MohammadAG51 | came to us all as a surprise |
| 16:36.58 | MohammadAG51 | V20 i think |
| 16:38.42 | alterego | Hrm |
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| 16:41.45 | Nandan | hello |
| 16:41.47 | Nandan | <PROTECTED> |
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| 16:43.59 | alterego | Nandan: that way -> http://maemo.org/development/ |
| 16:44.11 | Nandan | thanks |
| 16:44.40 | alterego | np |
| 16:44.43 | *** join/#maemo dmj726_n900 (~user@m5d5e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 16:44.52 | steinex | supl.google.com doesn't seem to work |
| 16:44.55 | steinex | no idea why. |
| 16:45.05 | alterego | Oh, maybe that's not it. |
| 16:46.47 | *** join/#maemo mikki-kun (~mikki-kun@120-157.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 16:47.56 | *** join/#maemo MNZ (~mnzaki@41.234.189.124) |
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| 16:52.35 | Jaffa | re |
| 16:53.09 | *** join/#maemo kthomas (~kthomas@77.127.139.95) |
| 16:53.52 | Jaffa | FWIW, Stphen Elop - the new CEO - seemed nice and enthusiastic in his few words. |
| 16:54.13 | RST38h | Short question: Is FrozenBubble2 optified?n |
| 16:54.30 | RST38h | Jaffa: Don't they all... |
| 16:54.35 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (Fernando@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 16:54.49 | Jaffa | RST38h: OPK never did! |
| 16:55.01 | GAN900 | alterego, by a Symbian device? |
| 16:55.29 | RST38h | Jaffa: Ah, but he was a Finn! |
| 16:55.59 | RST38h | Jaffa: On the other hand, I fully subscribe to the Arkenoi's analysis of the situation :) |
| 16:56.07 | Jaffa | RST38h: So are most of the Nokia exec team :) |
| 16:56.09 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 16:56.12 | Jaffa | RST38h: Oh? |
| 16:57.36 | RST38h | Jaffa: "Another martyr getting a handle-less briefcase labelled 'dumbshit Symbian' and being forced to carry it on and never EVER throw it away." |
| 16:58.32 | alterego | GAN900: do you mean "buy a symbian device"? |
| 16:58.36 | RST38h | Jaffa: "Which, lacking balls, he is going to carry on and on and on" |
| 16:59.43 | GAN900 | alterego, in respone to "sort of tempted". |
| 16:59.44 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@77.127.200.52) |
| 16:59.50 | GAN900 | alterego, don't try to confuse me! |
| 17:00.47 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@88.30.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 17:01.17 | alterego | GAN900: yes, I'm sort of tempted to buy the N8 |
| 17:02.15 | *** join/#maemo dmj726_n9001 (~user@m705e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 17:02.43 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@2a01:e35:8b2b:fac0:221:5dff:fe95:a18) |
| 17:04.35 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@gprs17.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 17:06.19 | *** join/#maemo kthomas (~kthomas@77.127.112.168) |
| 17:11.09 | steinex | any hint about supl.google.com? |
| 17:11.15 | *** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@95.73.77.227) |
| 17:11.16 | steinex | i'm clueless :/ |
| 17:14.38 | *** join/#maemo ilius (4e26f387@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.38.243.135) |
| 17:14.51 | *** join/#maemo nidO (nidO@dsl-fixed-94-30-53-17.interdsl.co.uk) |
| 17:14.52 | *** join/#maemo FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 17:15.04 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@77.127.167.202) |
| 17:16.19 | ilius | there was a package that could change default media player when tap on a media file in file manager |
| 17:16.57 | ilius | but i cant remind the package name |
| 17:18.45 | pyther | Is there a gps speed monitor that does NOT require an internet connection? |
| 17:20.05 | *** join/#maemo lopz (~jjlc@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 17:21.40 | *** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 17:23.24 | *** join/#maemo mk8 (~torello@ip-212-141.sn1.eutelia.it) |
| 17:23.31 | dneary | Hey ho |
| 17:24.59 | jacekowski | pyther: yes |
| 17:25.02 | jacekowski | pyther: any of them |
| 17:25.11 | jacekowski | pyther: just click no when it asks |
| 17:25.16 | jacekowski | pyther: it will take a lot longer to get a lock |
| 17:26.19 | pyther | jacekowski: ok, I wonder if it forgets the gps data when I reboot |
| 17:26.33 | jacekowski | yep |
| 17:26.39 | *** join/#maemo alextreme (~alex@82-171-161-1.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 17:26.53 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B08B5EE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:26.53 | jacekowski | basicaly it will take ages to get a lock without internet |
| 17:27.10 | pyther | ok |
| 17:27.22 | satmd | not true |
| 17:27.27 | RST38h | UK ISPs To Pay 25% of Copyright Enforcement Costs <== ahahaha |
| 17:27.28 | pyther | now it would be also nice to prevent jspeed from asking every 30 minutes, but I can live with that |
| 17:27.33 | satmd | but it will take 20 secs - 20 minutes |
| 17:28.21 | pyther | I let it sit for over 15 minutes without getting a lock |
| 17:28.39 | jacekowski | well, it has to be outside |
| 17:28.47 | jacekowski | with clear view |
| 17:28.48 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 17:28.54 | pyther | we were moving |
| 17:28.59 | pyther | that was probably the problem |
| 17:29.03 | jacekowski | that too |
| 17:30.32 | *** join/#maemo Tott3 (~Tott3@h7n3-sv-g-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 17:33.44 | *** join/#maemo guardian (~guardian@i07v-62-34-48-83.d4.club-internet.fr) |
| 17:37.08 | *** join/#maemo richieeee72 (~richard@host86-153-229-124.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:37.39 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@93.69.183.221) |
| 17:38.48 | *** join/#maemo jonne|reconnecte (~jonne@91.182.161.26) |
| 17:41.01 | *** join/#maemo johns (nobody@88.78.broadband14.iol.cz) |
| 17:41.14 | johnsQ | Hi |
| 17:41.56 | *** join/#maemo inz (inz@maemo-hackers.org) |
| 17:43.11 | *** join/#maemo DangerMaus (~eeeeeeeee@tuxhacker/loft306) |
| 17:46.03 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-236-243.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 17:46.25 | dneary | Hi |
| 17:46.31 | dneary | bergie, Ping? |
| 17:46.39 | dneary | X-Fade, Ping? |
| 17:46.49 | timeless | finds friendly wifi at a bar-cafe |
| 17:46.56 | timeless | hi dneary |
| 17:47.00 | bergie | dneary: pong |
| 17:47.05 | timeless | waves from edinburgh |
| 17:47.16 | *** join/#maemo jkyro (~jasu@dsl-hkibrasgw1-fe23f900-77.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:47.55 | dneary | bergie, I'm trying to send out election tokens for the election that's starting in 6 hours |
| 17:47.58 | trumee | timeless: back at work? |
| 17:48.12 | dneary | bergie, And test.maemo.org doesn't have an smtp server |
| 17:48.18 | bergie | ah, fun |
| 17:48.22 | dneary | Can you remember how we sent them out last time? |
| 17:48.31 | timeless | no! |
| 17:48.53 | trumee | timeless: Nokia guys seem to have long holiday! |
| 17:48.56 | bergie | dneary: from "maintenance" would sound logical |
| 17:48.57 | timeless | three another two plus weeks of vacation |
| 17:49.01 | timeless | 4 weeks |
| 17:49.10 | timeless | it's standard for europe |
| 17:49.10 | trumee | timeless: wowwwwwwwwwwwww! |
| 17:49.42 | dneary | trumee, In France, 5 weeks is normal. 6 weeks is not unusual. For the year, that is |
| 17:50.23 | dneary | trumee, People tend to take 3 weeks during the Summer, 1 week for skiing, a few days for Christmas, a few days for Easter, a few days around the end of October |
| 17:50.39 | dneary | And the rest spread over the year |
| 17:50.43 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~x@84.114.238.170) |
| 17:50.56 | dneary | bergie, I don't think I have access to maintenance |
| 17:51.10 | dneary | bergie, But I'm sure I was the one who sent the emails last time |
| 17:51.11 | trumee | dneary: and for the rest frenchies go on a strike :p |
| 17:51.21 | dneary | trumee, Nah, that's a myth |
| 17:51.34 | dneary | There's generally only about 5 or 6 big strikes a year |
| 17:51.45 | timeless | yeah, in finland it's 4summer weeks (preferably as a lump) and one winter |
| 17:51.52 | dneary | And they're generally not very popular |
| 17:51.57 | bergie | dneary: hmm, then you've probably been given access to some of the other ones. maemo1/2? |
| 17:52.12 | dneary | bergie, I *thought* I'd sent them from test |
| 17:52.53 | bergie | well, theoretically the ISP could've removed SMTP service from that box |
| 17:52.53 | dneary | Yup, I did... I see a nohup.out from Mar 23 |
| 17:52.54 | *** join/#maemo CreamyG (CreamyG@S0106001ee5476d0f.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 17:53.12 | dneary | Let me just see if there was something tricky going on |
| 17:53.19 | *** join/#maemo onion (~milang@tori.tal.org) |
| 17:53.47 | dneary | Yeah - I think Bergie installed exim for me last year |
| 17:53.51 | dneary | It must not be started |
| 17:54.02 | dneary | And I don't believe I'm an sudoer on that machine |
| 17:55.12 | bergie | dneary: wasn't me, I don't have sudo on that box either |
| 17:55.36 | dneary | bleep |
| 18:00.42 | lcuk | hey bergie dneary \o |
| 18:01.03 | *** join/#maemo mirr0r (flugel@6d4822d1.ftth.concepts.nl) |
| 18:01.32 | dneary | hi lcuk |
| 18:01.52 | dneary | "too drunk to lcuk" |
| 18:02.08 | timeless | smiles, vbox people fixed a bug i filed |
| 18:02.15 | lcuk | stonecoldsober |
| 18:02.31 | lcuk | cold being operative, its brass monkeys here today |
| 18:03.48 | lcuk | dneary, did the meeting get arranged then? |
| 18:03.50 | *** join/#maemo dmj726_n900 (~user@m1c5e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 18:03.51 | DangerMaus | hehe |
| 18:04.03 | dneary | lcuk, yes, tomorrow, noon utc |
| 18:04.24 | lcuk | reasonable enough |
| 18:04.24 | DangerMaus | grrr.. hmmm my eeepc powerbi=rick came back ti life today...hmmm |
| 18:04.26 | *** join/#maemo diegohcg (~diegohcg@189.2.128.130) |
| 18:05.13 | CreamyG | lol that's kinda weird, i thought it made a pop |
| 18:05.20 | DangerMaus | it did |
| 18:05.25 | DangerMaus | or something did |
| 18:05.48 | CreamyG | well it's probably still safer than those fake batteries |
| 18:05.56 | DangerMaus | unless it just had a lowd thermal cut out |
| 18:06.00 | DangerMaus | loud |
| 18:06.10 | *** join/#maemo ppc (~ppc@dslb-084-058-172-028.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:06.14 | DangerMaus | fake batteries? |
| 18:06.33 | CreamyG | yesterday there was some guy in there wanting to buy fake n900 batteries from ebay |
| 18:06.39 | CreamyG | didn't belive there could be any danger |
| 18:06.40 | DangerMaus | lol |
| 18:06.54 | DangerMaus | boom! |
| 18:07.14 | crashanddie | waves at the doomsdayers |
| 18:07.20 | CreamyG | yeah... it's pretty rare, but nokia and other phone manuafcturers always claim that the only batteries that blow up are the fake ones |
| 18:07.27 | DangerMaus | my buddie hadd a samsung go thermal in his back pocket lastweek |
| 18:07.29 | crashanddie | you do realise that plenty of people have bought cheapo batteries off ebay and had no issues with them? |
| 18:07.39 | crashanddie | (except for the fact they hold a charge for about 20.3 seconds) |
| 18:07.50 | *** join/#maemo cjdavis (~cjdavis@WS-ESR1-74-215-254-54.fuse.net) |
| 18:07.59 | DangerMaus | haha |
| 18:08.10 | *** join/#maemo dmj726_n9001 (~user@host-80-214.flgaroy.clients.pavlovmedia.com) |
| 18:08.18 | lcuk | dneary, was there any further discussion about the maemo.org stuff? I knoew bergie is giving a talk about this very subject in a couple of weeks |
| 18:08.40 | dneary | lcuk, Help me out... which stuff? And which talk? |
| 18:08.41 | DangerMaus | i got prob fake batteries in my motorola and it charges normaly and lasts a few days |
| 18:09.01 | *** join/#maemo MSameerWork (~mohammed@a91-156-70-170.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:09.18 | CreamyG | yes lol, i just feel the need to warn people that they aren't safe since li-ion batteries are unstable to begin with, any manufacturing defect or parts they skipped to save a penny will increase the chance of violent failure |
| 18:09.22 | DangerMaus | i should pack up and go home |
| 18:09.42 | CreamyG | i |
| 18:09.43 | lcuk | dneary, the maemo.org app store stuff I tried to bring up at last meeting and then sent over the notes for about the potential for people to actually work on it in this sprint |
| 18:09.45 | dneary | bergie, Am I stuck, then? |
| 18:09.54 | CreamyG | i'd still buy them myself, just refuse to recommend it |
| 18:09.55 | lcuk | http://opensolutions.coss.fi/ohjelma.html |
| 18:10.02 | dneary | lcuk, Ah - did you ever get any answer from X-Fade? |
| 18:10.04 | lcuk | bergie has a talk scheduled about it here |
| 18:10.05 | lcuk | no |
| 18:10.12 | GAN900 | dneary, clearly a conspiracy to end the council. |
| 18:10.26 | dneary | no speaky fiinjhliish |
| 18:10.38 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 18:10.38 | lcuk | Maemo.org Downloads - Building an open community "app store" |
| 18:10.38 | lcuk | - Crowdsourced quality assurance and development of comprehensive web services using an open source model. |
| 18:10.38 | lcuk | Henri Bergius, |
| 18:10.38 | lcuk | Consultant Partner, CEO, |
| 18:10.38 | lcuk | Nemein Oy |
| 18:10.49 | lcuk | English |
| 18:11.15 | timeless | 22. when making a time input widget that supports 12hour format and lists am or pm, do *not* hide changing am/pm behind a menu (!) (this might be an s40 feature) |
| 18:12.07 | *** join/#maemo briglia (~briglia@189.2.128.130) |
| 18:12.22 | timeless | sp3000: about:plugins fix no-workee? :( |
| 18:13.02 | timeless | sp3000: wfm |
| 18:13.36 | dneary | lcuk, I remember opening that page and saying "I can't understand this" |
| 18:13.37 | *** join/#maemo Summeli (summeli@irc.summeli.fi) |
| 18:13.42 | crashanddie | lcuk: Unicorn Bacon to be included in next release of Firefox! http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1788284&cid=33588874 |
| 18:13.42 | dneary | I missed the English translation |
| 18:13.49 | kerio | BACON |
| 18:13.50 | *** join/#maemo Myrtti (myrtti@ubuntu/member/pdpc.professional.myrtti) |
| 18:13.56 | crashanddie | kerio: UNICORN BACON |
| 18:14.02 | *** join/#maemo Arkenoi (~ark@178.176.181.215) |
| 18:14.04 | lcuk | thats not english translation, its on the page I just linked to |
| 18:14.04 | kerio | even more awesome |
| 18:14.13 | lcuk | either way |
| 18:14.51 | dneary | lcuk, Interesting, in that context, to see the MeeGo compliance discussion |
| 18:15.14 | lcuk | this has nothing to do with meego? |
| 18:15.22 | dneary | lcuk, Yeah - a bit far down the page (and, unless I'm mistaken, the first entry on the page in English) for me to browse to |
| 18:15.51 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@mm-32-134-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by) |
| 18:15.56 | lcuk | bergie retweeted it a few days ago |
| 18:16.13 | dneary | lcuk, I'm just saying: the MeeGo discussion is showing up a couple of things which people see as true for an app store unquestioningly |
| 18:16.20 | lcuk | but anyway, can it be brought up in the meeting - since obviously theres "something" happening |
| 18:16.45 | dneary | lcuk, Please do - like I said, Henri & X-Fade are the guys to talk to |
| 18:17.00 | lcuk | well bergie just vanished |
| 18:17.26 | bergie | lcuk: still here |
| 18:17.31 | lcuk | :D |
| 18:17.54 | bergie | just went out for a smoke :-) |
| 18:18.06 | bergie | dneary: unfortunately we need someone with better access |
| 18:18.14 | lcuk | bergie, your talk, is it just field notes, or would you want to follow up with an implementation? |
| 18:18.18 | *** join/#maemo Mousey (~wtfisme@sea02-v600-nat.marchex.com) |
| 18:18.27 | RST38h | |
| 18:18.42 | lcuk | i will fwd you the mail I sent to dneary and X-Fade |
| 18:18.53 | lcuk | it has some thoughts about the device end |
| 18:19.03 | lcuk | and how we have some of the pieces already in place |
| 18:19.17 | bergie | lcuk: great, thanks |
| 18:20.16 | *** join/#maemo mlpug (~mlpug@a88-115-171-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:20.31 | *** join/#maemo trem (~trem@mol92-1-81-57-136-23.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:20.35 | lcuk | bergie, mail addr? |
| 18:20.41 | *** part/#maemo richieeee72 (~richard@host86-153-229-124.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:20.46 | timeless | um |
| 18:21.03 | timeless | anyone hear of an "Indian" pr1.2 image? |
| 18:21.20 | bergie | lcuk: bergie@nemein.com |
| 18:21.21 | timeless | further, anyone have the ability to get and flash it? |
| 18:21.45 | lcuk | timeless, hm similar to the HK I guess? |
| 18:21.46 | Stskeeps | timeless: skypeless |
| 18:22.15 | timeless | stskeeps: ? |
| 18:22.32 | timeless | turns on skype |
| 18:22.41 | lcuk | timeless, i just asked it might be tomorrow before I get a response though |
| 18:22.53 | timeless | sorry, i'm mostly squating for power to my starving phone |
| 18:23.55 | Stskeeps | timeless: indian is without skype, afaik |
| 18:24.04 | lcuk | k bergie mailed |
| 18:24.35 | timeless | stskeeps: sweet |
| 18:24.49 | timeless | lcuk: are you doing bugs.maemo triage? |
| 18:25.14 | *** join/#maemo mlfoster (~chatzilla@nat/intel/x-ziatutcckvpkxvrs) |
| 18:25.33 | lcuk | no i am drinking a brew atm |
| 18:25.47 | timeless | hi mlfoster |
| 18:26.07 | *** join/#maemo grenadejumper (~grenadeju@188.126.195.206) |
| 18:26.12 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (mh@93.159.64.31) |
| 18:28.00 | lcuk | bergie, shall have to sync smoking times again soon \o |
| 18:28.48 | *** join/#maemo jpe (~jpe@d51528885.access.telenet.be) |
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| 18:34.59 | PhonicUK | hey all, quick question |
| 18:35.14 | PhonicUK | why is apt-get wanting to remove mp-freemantle-203-pr in order to install libsdl-mixer1.2 ? |
| 18:36.04 | timeless | presumably there's a conflict |
| 18:36.30 | timeless | it's probably trying to update a package that's version pinned |
| 18:36.47 | PhonicUK | I understand that mp-fremantle-203-pr is just a metapackage, does this mean its safe to remove? |
| 18:36.54 | PhonicUK | or should I hold fire on updating sdl mixer? |
| 18:37.19 | timeless | it's a version pinning meta package |
| 18:37.20 | kerio | PhonicUK: it's just a metapackage |
| 18:37.32 | PhonicUK | okay |
| 18:37.32 | kerio | and it's not very likely that we'll have a new PR anyway |
| 18:37.33 | timeless | which iiuc is used to manage system updates |
| 18:37.34 | kerio | and you can just reflash |
| 18:37.42 | timeless | kerio: err |
| 18:37.56 | timeless | not that i can actually promise such a thing |
| 18:37.58 | PhonicUK | so is it okay to remove it and let it update everything to later versions? |
| 18:38.02 | kerio | PhonicUK: yeah |
| 18:38.07 | timeless | but we're definitely updating ota |
| 18:38.13 | kerio | but you'll break SSU |
| 18:38.18 | timeless | and iirc we did announce plans for another |
| 18:38.19 | PhonicUK | SSU? |
| 18:38.28 | kerio | so you'll probably have to reflash in order to update the OS |
| 18:38.32 | PhonicUK | ah |
| 18:38.32 | kerio | which is good anyway |
| 18:38.42 | PhonicUK | I reflash anyway for new PR releases |
| 18:39.02 | timeless | if you always reflash, then killing that package is fine |
| 18:39.14 | PhonicUK | okay |
| 18:39.23 | *** join/#maemo digitalsurgeon (~ahmad@cs78198088.pp.htv.fi) |
| 18:39.30 | kerio | i thought there was a non-version-pinning... version |
| 18:39.35 | kerio | of metapackages |
| 18:39.36 | *** join/#maemo chadi (~chadi@212.36.208.2) |
| 18:39.36 | *** join/#maemo chadi (~chadi@unaffiliated/chadi) |
| 18:39.51 | timeless | kerio: i'm not quite sure how that'd work |
| 18:40.03 | kerio | \o/ |
| 18:40.06 | kerio | no idea |
| 18:40.06 | timeless | the set of packages we're going to ship will change |
| 18:40.31 | timeless | thus a package that merely says "take the latest of this list of packages" |
| 18:40.43 | timeless | *will* do the *wrong* thing TM |
| 18:40.53 | *** join/#maemo edisson (~edisson@189.2.128.130) |
| 18:41.39 | *** join/#maemo Noobmonk3y (~Noobmonke@cpc2-lanc4-0-0-cust67.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 18:42.00 | kerio | don't you mean ⢠|
| 18:42.02 | Noobmonk3y | blinks |
| 18:42.06 | *** join/#maemo Suiseiseki (~desu@wikipedia/Antonio-Lopez) |
| 18:42.24 | kerio | UTF8 MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU SUPPORT IT |
| 18:42.25 | *** join/#maemo millenomi_ (~millenomi@93.48.158.121) |
| 18:42.32 | Noobmonk3y | blonks |
| 18:42.59 | kerio | DESCRIBE WHAT SNOWMAN (U+2603) LOOKS LIKE |
| 18:43.34 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@user-12lcboo.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 18:43.50 | crashanddie | kerio: that's the second caps warning you're triggering |
| 18:44.07 | RST38h | Ah just kill him off... |
| 18:44.08 | kerio | that's yelled in the movie ._. |
| 18:44.16 | Noobmonk3y | prods lcuk, MohammadAG51 , frals , evening alls :) |
| 18:44.32 | *** join/#maemo TomaszD (~tom@Maemo/community/contributor/TomaszD) |
| 18:45.44 | *** join/#maemo nicu (~nicu@212.103.70.50) |
| 18:45.49 | mikhas | â |
| 18:46.01 | lcuk | dneary, bergie heres minutes from the last meeting when I proposed it (but jaffa said was impractical) |
| 18:46.02 | lcuk | http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/maemo-meeting-2010-05-17.html#t15:31 |
| 18:46.17 | kerio | i'm still baffled by the existance of a snowman glyph in unicode btw |
| 18:46.33 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~wazd@188.123.241.73) |
| 18:46.59 | Noobmonk3y | lcuk, the shopping basket idea? he didnt ignore it, just went ok? |
| 18:47.20 | Noobmonk3y | good idea though :P |
| 18:47.20 | soltys | morning |
| 18:47.37 | *** join/#maemo bbee (~bbee@unaffiliated/bbee) |
| 18:47.39 | soltys | is there any last.fm scrobbler for the default music playr ? |
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| 18:47.46 | Noobmonk3y | kerio.... dont be baffled just agree and carry on :P |
| 18:47.50 | soltys | s/yr/er/ |
| 18:47.56 | soltys | damn |
| 18:48.13 | soltys | a/aer/ayer/ |
| 18:48.30 | soltys | it's not my day |
| 18:48.41 | kerio | soltys: syntax error ;) |
| 18:48.49 | soltys | ;) |
| 18:49.38 | timeless | you can only s/// the last non s/// line anyway |
| 18:49.47 | timeless | so your curse would have foiled you |
| 18:49.54 | timeless | leaves |
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| 18:50.06 | soltys | timeless: i know that.. ;) |
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| 18:55.39 | MNZ | aaaand time for a trip to zzzland |
| 18:55.53 | MNZ | so long folks! |
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| 19:00.11 | GNUtoo|laptop | hi, how do I boot my own kernel? |
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| 19:03.00 | crashanddie | spit it out, kick it |
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| 19:08.26 | GNUtoo|laptop | oops I forgott the details |
| 19:08.36 | GNUtoo|laptop | sorry(I'm very tired) |
| 19:08.38 | GNUtoo|laptop | so... |
| 19:08.41 | GNUtoo|laptop | I tried multiboot |
| 19:08.51 | GNUtoo|laptop | and it say that it didn't found the kenrel |
| 19:09.00 | GNUtoo|laptop | I've named the entry and the kernel after uname -r |
| 19:09.24 | GNUtoo|laptop | vmlinuz-$(uname -r) for the kenrel image in /boot/multiboot/ |
| 19:09.40 | GNUtoo|laptop | $(uname -r) beeing the uname -r of the new booted kenrel |
| 19:09.51 | GNUtoo|laptop | I can boot it flashing it directly |
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| 19:09.57 | GNUtoo|laptop | but I'd like multiboot to work |
| 19:10.06 | GNUtoo|laptop | also I was able to get console with multiboot |
| 19:10.11 | GNUtoo|laptop | and the kernel was there |
| 19:10.23 | roombacat | Same |
| 19:10.40 | GNUtoo|laptop | roombacat, you've the same issue? |
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| 19:16.51 | roombacat | too long ago GNUtoo|laptop - you need to find someone with a n900 |
| 19:17.03 | GNUtoo|laptop | ok |
| 19:17.13 | GNUtoo|laptop | maybe #meego-arm |
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| 19:23.31 | lcuk | ahem |
| 19:23.34 | lcuk | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62312 |
| 19:23.40 | lcuk | announce] swappolube to lubricate your gui |
| 19:23.52 | lcuk | up for testing |
| 19:24.00 | lcuk | its a little set of tweaks |
| 19:24.16 | *** join/#maemo GNUtoo|laptop (~gnutoo@host55-144-dynamic.54-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:24.24 | SpeedEvil | interesting |
| 19:25.40 | SpeedEvil | I wonder about an icky hack. |
| 19:25.54 | SpeedEvil | You want 1G of swap - say. |
| 19:26.06 | SpeedEvil | You want to keep it reasonably non-fragmented. |
| 19:26.53 | SpeedEvil | so, you setup 10 swapfiles of 100M each, and then when you detect that one is very fragmented, you swapoff it |
| 19:26.58 | SpeedEvil | s/10/15/ |
| 19:27.07 | SpeedEvil | and wind up page_cluster |
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| 19:35.39 | crashanddie | I thought fragmentation was a non-issue on flash? |
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| 19:38.22 | trumee | crashanddie: any luck testing with my pbx? |
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| 19:38.42 | crashanddie | well, sadly exactly as you predicted |
| 19:39.02 | trumee | crashanddie: so choppy in a couple of minutes? |
| 19:39.08 | crashanddie | major cut-outs, and robot voice every now and then, pretty much unusable |
| 19:39.24 | crashanddie | well, the first drastic quality drop is about 3-4 minutes into the call, so it seems |
| 19:39.34 | crashanddie | but then the quality remains roughly the same (or as crappy?) |
| 19:40.00 | crashanddie | I did notice that forcing the screen to remain lit by browsing menus could "wake up" the call though |
| 19:40.13 | trumee | crashanddie: yes. the only workaround is to Hold Call >Activate call. Then the choppiness goes away for some time |
| 19:40.40 | crashanddie | so it's some kind of CPU going to sleep mode? |
| 19:40.57 | crashanddie | s/CPU going to sleep mode/CPU-going-to-sleep-mode issue/ |
| 19:41.10 | trumee | crashanddie: No i dont think it is a cpu issue. rather it is a gstreamer issue |
| 19:41.11 | SpeedEvil | crashanddie: read fragmentation is pretty much a non-issue. |
| 19:41.25 | Shapeshifter | ruskie: would you mind rebuilding the urxvt in your repo with perl support? |
| 19:41.30 | trumee | crashanddie: you run a pbx as well? |
| 19:41.55 | SpeedEvil | crashanddie: Write fragmentation is. The real 'blocks' on flash are ~130K or so eraseblocks. If you partially write an eraseblock, then the flash has to copy the previous contents over to a new block. |
| 19:42.11 | trumee | crashanddie: If you use any desktop sip client or even Nokia N95, call is perfect. |
| 19:42.12 | SpeedEvil | crashanddie: This can mean performance going from megabytes/s to dozens of kilobytes/s |
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| 19:43.34 | crashanddie | trumee: yeah, call was fine from my server to yours |
| 19:43.43 | crashanddie | SpeedEvil: fair enough |
| 19:44.18 | trumee | crashanddie: what do you mean call was fine, how did you check that? |
| 19:44.30 | crashanddie | trumee: I'm a developer on a SIP server for corporate hotlines |
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| 19:45.18 | trumee | crashanddie: ah. Your are the man then. Collabora dev thinks it is a jitter issue in gstreamer |
| 19:45.44 | crashanddie | trumee: well, I have access to call stats when calling with my server; amongst other things the rdcp info. Hardly any packet drop from your server nor latency issues |
| 19:45.53 | crashanddie | rtcp** |
| 19:45.57 | trumee | crashanddie: if you have any comments could you please add it to bug #10388 |
| 19:45.59 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10388 Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem? |
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| 19:47.40 | trumee | crashanddie: the number you called is actually a remote pjsip server. Your call was like this you<>my freeswitch pbx<>remote pjsip server |
| 19:48.24 | crashanddie | trumee: and my server is: my desktop phone -> phone line -> audiocode -> my server -> sip to your freeswitch |
| 19:48.41 | crashanddie | (as opposed to n900 -> freeswitch) |
| 19:49.52 | trumee | crashanddie: is it possible to check on N900 itself whether there is any latency issues? |
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| 19:50.38 | crashanddie | I guess I could n900 -> my server to see what is happening, I could also piggyback the call on my server to compare the two outputs |
| 19:51.41 | crashanddie | as in, I can singleplex myself into a conference where the n900 and your freeswitch are having a chat, and listen to the difference in quality |
| 19:51.58 | *** join/#maemo avs (~avs@a88-113-5-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:52.08 | crashanddie | though that wouldn't be before monday most probably |
| 19:52.09 | trumee | crashanddie: ah i see. it will be useful. |
| 19:52.43 | trumee | crashanddie: if you want i could connect the pjsip server directly to your pbx. that could be an extra test. |
| 19:53.26 | crashanddie | or I can play an audiobook on my server directly |
| 19:53.58 | trumee | crashanddie: audiobook on your server wont be real test since everything will be on the same network. |
| 19:54.18 | trumee | crashanddie: But your conference call sounds like a good idea |
| 19:54.44 | trumee | crashanddie: i will keep the server alive and you can test it on Monday. |
| 19:54.58 | crashanddie | will do |
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| 19:56.48 | trumee | crashanddie: btw did you test with PSM off? |
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| 20:02.28 | alterego | Teeheehe, it's star buck! |
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| 20:12.25 | aep | any idea if there is a wpa_supplicant somwhere for maemo5? i'd like to connect to a wpa encrypted network |
| 20:12.57 | SpeedEvil | The stock client will do WPA |
| 20:13.05 | SpeedEvil | Simply setup your passphrase in the UI |
| 20:13.50 | aep | the GUI can only connect to one network at once |
| 20:14.45 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 20:14.58 | SpeedEvil | Unfortunately there isn't a nice way of connecting to two. |
| 20:15.05 | *** join/#maemo ZogG (~zoggrules@bzq-79-178-11-23.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 20:15.24 | jacekowski | well, it would have to be on same channel |
| 20:15.34 | jacekowski | and i'm not sure if n900 wifi card can do it anyways |
| 20:15.46 | aep | umts and wifi at the same time should work |
| 20:15.59 | SpeedEvil | I'm assuming he's (or she, or it) is meaning phone and wifi |
| 20:15.59 | jacekowski | yeah |
| 20:16.05 | SpeedEvil | or they. |
| 20:16.12 | SpeedEvil | I keep forgetting communal intelligences. |
| 20:16.22 | aep | heh |
| 20:16.38 | aep | well, the gui thing doesnt seem to use any tool i know |
| 20:16.43 | aep | at least none of them are installed |
| 20:16.54 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't. |
| 20:17.14 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:18.10 | aep | well, any manpage somewhere? |
| 20:18.20 | aep | or should i just ... give up? |
| 20:18.20 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 20:18.25 | *** join/#maemo Khertan (~Khertan@AAmiens-155-1-35-184.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:18.28 | SpeedEvil | wlancond is somewhat opensource. |
| 20:18.40 | SpeedEvil | Who can remind me who was bemoaning this last night. |
| 20:19.11 | aep | err well ... doesnt look like this is intended to be _used_ |
| 20:19.30 | SpeedEvil | Ah yes. |
| 20:19.36 | SpeedEvil | ShadSEC |
| 20:19.40 | SpeedEvil | Who isn't here now |
| 20:19.46 | SpeedEvil | What're you trying to do |
| 20:19.53 | aep | doesnt seem to react on command line arguments |
| 20:20.08 | SpeedEvil | Bridge wifi to 3G in wifi-client mode on the n900? |
| 20:20.13 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't |
| 20:20.17 | aep | nah, forward |
| 20:20.22 | aep | bridging wont do any good |
| 20:20.37 | SpeedEvil | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle-20091116/source/osso-wlan/dbus-handler.c |
| 20:20.38 | aep | usb to gsm i got working |
| 20:20.41 | aep | but the cable is annoying |
| 20:20.43 | SpeedEvil | yeah - bridging in the loosest senser |
| 20:21.01 | aep | err... what is this? |
| 20:21.02 | SpeedEvil | There is a stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid solution in principle. |
| 20:21.40 | SpeedEvil | ssh root@phone pnatd|pppd |
| 20:21.42 | SpeedEvil | sort-of |
| 20:21.43 | aep | great code |
| 20:21.49 | aep | backs of |
| 20:22.05 | aep | hey thats not even that stupid |
| 20:22.33 | SpeedEvil | I don't know how to get that pipe bidirectional, I haver forgotten themissing link |
| 20:22.55 | aep | not this way, but the general idea would work |
| 20:23.01 | SpeedEvil | Also - I haven't tested it beyond pnatd actually giving a response that looked like ppp sync after doing the #99 thing |
| 20:23.30 | *** join/#maemo ehalmans (~user@host064-001.kpn-gprs.nl) |
| 20:23.38 | MohammadAG51 | LOL @nokia |
| 20:23.43 | MohammadAG51 | (twitter) |
| 20:24.28 | *** part/#maemo ehalmans (~user@host064-001.kpn-gprs.nl) |
| 20:24.36 | aep | SpeedEvil: i'll research on that idea. thanks |
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| 20:34.49 | Tott3[AEX] | anyone know where to get skype? oO |
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| 20:38.49 | crashanddie | ok, i'm sick of this shit |
| 20:39.02 | *** join/#maemo msanchez (~msanchez@44.24.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
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| 20:39.10 | *** mode/#maemo [+o crashanddie] by ChanServ |
| 20:39.32 | *** topic/#maemo by crashanddie -> Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Free software mirror: http://espejo.freemoe.org/ | Skype is INCLUDED in the N900. Unless you live in India, that is. |
| 20:39.37 | *** mode/#maemo [-o crashanddie] by ChanServ |
| 20:39.38 | satmd | :D |
| 20:39.44 | Shadikka | :) |
| 20:41.44 | *** join/#maemo RST38bis (~user@NAT-81-25-53-73.ultranet.ru) |
| 20:42.36 | Myrtti | hands crashanddie a metallic pink starburst seal of approval |
| 20:42.45 | CreamyG | Tott3[AEX] you probably have to flash a different firmware to your n900 if it's not installed |
| 20:42.55 | CreamyG | he doesn't look very indian from here |
| 20:42.57 | GAN900 | Point them at the global firmware? |
| 20:42.58 | RST38bis | whadidhedo? |
| 20:42.59 | Tott3[AEX] | nvm found it |
| 20:43.04 | CreamyG | haha |
| 20:43.31 | Myrtti | RST38bis: the last bit in the topic |
| 20:44.14 | RST38bis | ah how queer |
| 20:44.36 | CreamyG | hey does anyone know how "Crash reporter" works? i installed it a while ago and it never pops up anything until theres 10 duplicate core dumps or whatever, then says its overwriting them. i see its options have "upload crash reports" disabled by default. which seems dumb. so if i turn that on, where does it send them? |
| 20:44.56 | GAN900 | CreamyG, Nokia. |
| 20:45.16 | Myrtti | sets out to do her animated GIF version of the seal |
| 20:46.08 | CreamyG | okay, i hope they enjoy their 10 intellisyncd dumps |
| 20:46.45 | CreamyG | and by enjoy, i mean fix the damn thing so it doesn't crash ten times a day |
| 20:46.57 | RST38bis | wonders if skype will ever be fixed on the n900 |
| 20:47.05 | RST38bis | prolly not :( |
| 20:47.35 | Corsac | skype sucks anyway |
| 20:48.05 | *** join/#maemo ptlo (~senko@cpezg-94-253-147-211-cbl.xnet.hr) |
| 20:48.18 | CreamyG | it's good for indians apparently |
| 20:49.02 | CreamyG | lol sending crash report 11/85 |
| 20:49.07 | CreamyG | sweet phone, this is |
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| 20:50.26 | Tott3[AEX] | RST38bis what you mean by ever be fixed? |
| 20:50.53 | lcuk | Theres a thread on TMO at the moment which is looking for the good experiences long term users have had over the years with maemo |
| 20:50.57 | *** join/#maemo wazd1 (~wazd@188.123.241.73) |
| 20:50.59 | lcuk | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=817191#post817191 |
| 20:51.44 | lcuk | GAN900, and RST38bis and Jaffa and andre__ and X-Fade and anyone else who wants to say something about their positive experiences, please do! :) |
| 20:52.10 | lcuk | some lovely comments so far |
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| 20:52.13 | RST38bis | Their most recent tool in the fight against internet memes is this public safety information bulletin entitled: "An Introduction to PEDO BEAR." |
| 20:52.39 | RST38bis | wazd moo |
| 20:52.43 | lcuk | sigh |
| 20:52.48 | lcuk | "I always loved the helpful, friendly vibe. Developers, friendly banter, developers and good laughs." |
| 20:52.53 | andre__ | positive experience? with what? :-P |
| 20:52.56 | lcuk | wouldv been more along the lines what I am thinking |
| 20:53.09 | lcuk | of come on andre__ :P even GAN900 smiles sometimes! |
| 20:53.38 | andre__ | hey, I try to also become a poisonous community member! I can't suddenly add positive comments! :-P |
| 20:53.40 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@95.232.230.183) |
| 20:53.58 | lcuk | andre__, then make your own thread :P |
| 20:54.10 | lcuk | this one is about the things that have gone right! |
| 20:54.10 | RST38bis | lcuk: nah, not gonna spend time on that, no point |
| 20:54.26 | lcuk | theres no point to anything |
| 20:54.39 | crashanddie | well, has anything gone right in Maemo, really? |
| 20:55.12 | lcuk | read the thread |
| 20:55.15 | lcuk | people seem to think so |
| 20:55.40 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@54.200.49.122-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 20:55.55 | andre__ | lcuk, done. you're welcome ;-) |
| 20:56.03 | lcuk | maemo has introduced many people to linux |
| 20:56.18 | andre__ | ubuntu even more. ;-) |
| 20:56.28 | RST38bis | lcuk: so what is the point of this thread? is it supposed to make me feel all warm inside or what? |
| 20:57.07 | lcuk | andre__ ubuntu never replaced my windows, maemo I bought a device and it didnt have windows, so I had to learn it |
| 20:57.13 | lcuk | RST38bis, no, its just another topic |
| 20:57.25 | RST38bis | hm. |
| 20:57.28 | lcuk | the talk in talk.marmo.org is upto us what the topics are |
| 20:57.28 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 20:57.33 | lcuk | so I thought I might try a positive one |
| 20:58.51 | lcuk | marmo o_O |
| 20:59.18 | lcuk | RST38bis, did you have a 770? |
| 21:00.26 | crashanddie | andre__: you're a student? |
| 21:01.46 | andre__ | crashanddie, yes |
| 21:01.53 | crashanddie | damn |
| 21:02.19 | andre__ | nah, it's not that bad actually :-P |
| 21:02.20 | *** join/#maemo babsher (~bionet@b172-25-177-0.nat.washington.edu) |
| 21:02.35 | andre__ | Because when I grow up, I want to become $something. |
| 21:02.41 | tlir | guys, anyone tried android yet on the n810? |
| 21:02.59 | crashanddie | I thought you were like a 30yo dude or summing |
| 21:03.17 | crashanddie | why are the same bloody questions coming up 24/7? |
| 21:03.26 | *** join/#maemo ZZzzZzzz (~ZZzzZzzz@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-62-214.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:03.35 | *** mode/#maemo [+o crashanddie] by ChanServ |
| 21:03.49 | *** topic/#maemo by crashanddie -> Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Free software mirror: http://espejo.freemoe.org/ | Skype is INCLUDED in the N900. Unless you live in India, that is. | Also this is #maemo, NOT #nitdroid |
| 21:03.54 | *** mode/#maemo [-o crashanddie] by ChanServ |
| 21:04.19 | lcuk | crashanddie, how is your search tool getting on? or have you not had time? |
| 21:04.28 | crashanddie | not working on it at all |
| 21:04.30 | andre__ | crashanddie: nope, still not 30... but that wouldn't exclude student status either... :) |
| 21:04.49 | lcuk | could you push what you did do? |
| 21:04.58 | crashanddie | I could |
| 21:05.30 | alterego | I really like how the N900 maintains seperate internet connections for the phone and a tethered computer. |
| 21:05.33 | crashanddie | But anyone who understands Qt and can do a select in SQL is at the same point as I |
| 21:05.37 | alterego | It's funky :) |
| 21:05.39 | *** join/#maemo visz (vis@irkki.fi) |
| 21:05.46 | RST38bis | lcuk: nah, I did not |
| 21:05.47 | alterego | And bluetooth |
| 21:05.54 | crashanddie | except I don't understand Qt |
| 21:06.04 | *** join/#maemo jophish (~jophish@cpc2-glfd1-0-0-cust875.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 21:06.12 | crashanddie | lcuk: I'll release a search lib end of next week, how's that? |
| 21:06.29 | lcuk | crashanddie, just put your knowledge in a post, if nothing happens, so what, but someone might use it to learn from |
| 21:06.32 | lcuk | thats cool |
| 21:06.39 | crashanddie | lcuk: then you just convince khertan to make a UI for it |
| 21:06.42 | lcuk | RST38bis, what was your first? |
| 21:06.46 | lcuk | no crashanddie |
| 21:06.55 | lcuk | we convince khertan and others to read the thread |
| 21:07.00 | lcuk | theres more in the community than just him! |
| 21:07.17 | RST38bis | lcuk: n810 |
| 21:07.41 | lcuk | RST38bis, was that because you just found out about them, or did you want a keyboard? |
| 21:08.22 | alterego | A UI For what? I've got some spare time and Qt skillz ;) |
| 21:08.53 | RST38bis | lcuk: nokia had a developer discount, I applied, ported my stuff to it |
| 21:09.01 | lcuk | nods |
| 21:09.16 | crashanddie | alterego: we want to use the conversation UI to display search results |
| 21:09.27 | crashanddie | alterego: search would work on conversations mainly (sms and IM) |
| 21:09.35 | alterego | Hrm |
| 21:09.46 | crashanddie | alterego: conversation UI framework is there, and callable, just not documented |
| 21:09.58 | alterego | Hrm, cool. |
| 21:10.22 | alterego | So you have the ability to open a chat window with a specific message in view? |
| 21:10.32 | crashanddie | pretty much |
| 21:10.38 | alterego | Nice |
| 21:10.47 | alterego | Well, do a UI mockup and I'll have a go |
| 21:11.12 | crashanddie | I want to get this injection driver out first |
| 21:11.16 | crashanddie | so that'll be tomorrow |
| 21:11.23 | crashanddie | as I said, I'll work on it next week |
| 21:11.24 | alterego | Okay, well, you know where to find me ;) |
| 21:12.45 | crashanddie | Khertan_: ping |
| 21:12.51 | crashanddie | Khertan_: what's pypackager? |
| 21:15.00 | *** join/#maemo Tott3[AEX] (~Tott3@h7n3-sv-g-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 21:16.34 | *** join/#maemo dmj726_n900 (~user@m305e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 21:19.30 | *** join/#maemo bromgiku (~pyzikov.r@coderszone.net) |
| 21:20.22 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~neopwn@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 21:20.52 | ieatlint | heh, i've spent the last two days listening to intel talk about meego |
| 21:21.11 | lcuk | crashanddie, pypackager is khertans package to package python apps |
| 21:21.30 | lcuk | http://maemo.org/packages/view/pypackager/ |
| 21:21.38 | crashanddie | hmm |
| 21:22.29 | CreamyG | hey crashanddie, are you working on that mobile backtrack thing? |
| 21:30.28 | *** join/#maemo b-man` (~b-man@pool-70-106-196-95.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 21:32.14 | crashanddie | CreamyG: not directly |
| 21:32.50 | crashanddie | CreamyG: I got hold of the drivers, and have been working with some people to see how they worked exactly |
| 21:33.38 | crashanddie | working on packaging a single .deb which will load the injection drivers into the kernel when needed |
| 21:34.59 | CreamyG | cool, that will be fun to play with. i hope they release a public beta or at least lower the donation requirement... |
| 21:35.51 | CreamyG | or are you saying the drivers will be for the standard os/kernel when you're done? |
| 21:35.59 | crashanddie | yeah |
| 21:36.11 | crashanddie | well, you'll just need to install a modified power kernel |
| 21:36.17 | CreamyG | oooh even better then. dual booting is cool and all, but its nice to be able to receive calls :) |
| 21:36.32 | *** join/#maemo dmj726_n9001 (~user@host-80-214.flgaroy.clients.pavlovmedia.com) |
| 21:36.59 | crashanddie | there's no dual booting with neopwn |
| 21:37.24 | crashanddie | it's a chroot, meaning you just click on an icon and it launches the app |
| 21:37.32 | crashanddie | you just eat plenty of RAM |
| 21:37.52 | *** join/#maemo dvoid_ (~dvoid@h230n4-sde-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 21:38.07 | CreamyG | oh okay, i assumed it was a whole OS. |
| 21:38.26 | crashanddie | well, it's just an OS that runs on top of Maemo |
| 21:38.32 | crashanddie | just like easydebian, for example |
| 21:38.47 | crashanddie | (neopwn is based on easydebian, AFAICT) |
| 21:39.37 | CreamyG | well i should just try it some time, but last i saw they wanted $20 |
| 21:39.48 | crashanddie | thing is |
| 21:40.01 | crashanddie | asking money for someone to be included in a beta isn't a donation |
| 21:40.04 | crashanddie | it's a fee. A purchase. |
| 21:42.06 | *** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@95.72.94.192) |
| 21:42.33 | CreamyG | yeah. well i dunno if that's good or bad, but i just don't wanna pay more than $5 for something in beta |
| 21:42.44 | crashanddie | It's bad |
| 21:42.55 | crashanddie | which is why I'm releasing the driver |
| 21:47.36 | CreamyG | i'd be okay with it if it was $5, but more than that i worry that the coder may just quit and keep the money. anyways i should probalby get back to work, or i can't really judge people if i'm getting paid to do nothing all day lol |
| 21:48.36 | CreamyG | goes to make coffee |
| 21:48.38 | crashanddie | You should work for the french government |
| 21:48.53 | crashanddie | now there's people who have graduated into getting paychecks for doing utterly nothing |
| 21:48.57 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se) |
| 21:49.20 | CreamyG | haha dude if this chan wasn't logged, i'd say which i work for lol... |
| 21:49.46 | MohammadAG51 | kicks povbot |
| 21:50.27 | crashanddie | CreamyG: from what I can tell, you work for the Edmonton, Canada mayor's office. |
| 21:50.30 | CreamyG | of course i won't have found this chan if every google search for some build error didn't lead here |
| 21:50.40 | lcuk | crashanddie, i hate to break it to you, but how do you know that the binary you are about to distribute is based on the open code? (devils advocate here, you could be committing just as much a sin as you say this guy is doing) |
| 21:50.58 | *** join/#maemo lupine_85 (~lupine_85@master.lupine.me.uk) |
| 21:51.03 | CreamyG | haha no, well i'm connected via my home computer so it won't show exactly thank god :P |
| 21:51.16 | crashanddie | CreamyG: good call. |
| 21:51.16 | MohammadAG51 | lcuk, the kernel is licensed under the GPL |
| 21:51.25 | *** join/#maemo lupine_85 (~lupine_85@unaffiliated/lupine-85/x-7392152) |
| 21:51.36 | lcuk | MohammadAG51, so when somebody asks crashanddie for the source? |
| 21:52.01 | MohammadAG51 | why should they? when he got a GPL licensed blob? |
| 21:52.19 | lcuk | you do not play games with licensing |
| 21:52.34 | lcuk | the same rules would apply to crashanddie as he says should apply |
| 21:52.46 | MohammadAG51 | tell it to the guy who's distributing a sourceless blob which is "maintained" by the stock kernel nokia guy |
| 21:52.46 | lcuk | the proper right thing to do now you have a binary is officially request the source |
| 21:52.49 | crashanddie | hey, I didn't say anything about his licence |
| 21:52.50 | lcuk | and follow through that way |
| 21:53.08 | lcuk | no crashanddie but MohammadAG51 is right, if you are distributing a binary blob of the GPL kernel |
| 21:53.12 | lcuk | and modules etc |
| 21:53.17 | lcuk | you have to also follow the gpl |
| 21:53.26 | MohammadAG51 | he's not the guy at fault here |
| 21:53.29 | lcuk | and since you cannot supply the source yourself |
| 21:53.36 | crashanddie | lcuk: sure I can |
| 21:53.38 | lcuk | MohammadAG51, he will be if he distributes the binary |
| 21:53.43 | crashanddie | lcuk: if you want, I'll send it to you tomorrow morning |
| 21:53.50 | lcuk | i dont want it |
| 21:53.52 | crashanddie | lcuk: it will compile no problem, into the .ko |
| 21:53.53 | lcuk | i am not interested |
| 21:54.08 | crashanddie | Just be prepared to read ASM |
| 21:54.43 | MohammadAG51 | GPL code can be legally disassembled I guess... |
| 21:54.46 | lcuk | contact the FSF |
| 21:54.52 | *** join/#maemo dmj726_n900 (~user@m155e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 21:54.55 | lcuk | r whoever you have to do |
| 21:55.01 | crashanddie | I don't give a shit |
| 21:55.09 | *** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p5B103683.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:55.12 | lcuk | but don't compound it by re-distributing something you know if GPL as binary |
| 21:55.13 | MohammadAG51 | lcuk, and if the person distributing the blob doesn't push the source? |
| 21:55.33 | crashanddie | lcuk: and I'm not the author, I have no necessity to publish the source code |
| 21:55.50 | lcuk | http://gpl-violations.org/ |
| 21:55.57 | crashanddie | I haven't modified it, I'm not bound to publish anything |
| 21:56.08 | lcuk | http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-violation.html |
| 21:56.11 | kerio | crashanddie: did you release neopwn? |
| 21:56.19 | lcuk | read the license carefully |
| 21:56.31 | *** join/#maemo angasule (~angasule@190.2.33.49) |
| 21:57.08 | lcuk | crashanddie, you have what you believe is offending binary code |
| 21:57.09 | nox- | moin |
| 21:57.11 | lcuk | follow due process |
| 21:57.19 | lcuk | and request source officially |
| 21:57.24 | crashanddie | No |
| 21:57.34 | crashanddie | It won't change squat shit |
| 21:57.44 | *** join/#maemo srw (~swo@p5DF3DB6C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:57.49 | crashanddie | give me two weeks, and you'll have the source code, written by me. |
| 21:57.59 | lcuk | then report the violation back to the original copyright owner |
| 21:58.01 | crashanddie | in the meantime, I'm releasing what I have. |
| 21:58.03 | lcuk | and let them deal with it |
| 21:58.15 | crashanddie | I don't care whether you like it or not |
| 21:58.31 | crashanddie | If I remember, you're the one who didn't start liqbase as GPL in the first place |
| 21:58.37 | lcuk | no |
| 21:58.40 | crashanddie | if I remember, you're the one who didn't release source code |
| 21:58.42 | lcuk | i started it as closed source |
| 21:58.51 | lcuk | you are right |
| 21:58.54 | lcuk | and I learnt about it |
| 21:59.02 | lcuk | and I spent time finding out |
| 21:59.10 | crashanddie | so don't come busting my nuts because I'm just pushing people over the edge rather than killing myself asking nicely for it |
| 21:59.10 | lcuk | and it was a carefully considered decision |
| 21:59.20 | lcuk | crashanddie, but this is already GPL code |
| 21:59.25 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 21:59.28 | crashanddie | no, it's not. |
| 21:59.31 | lcuk | me coming from a closed source world changes nothing |
| 21:59.33 | crashanddie | for all we know, it isn't |
| 21:59.43 | *** join/#maemo dmj726_n9001 (~user@host-81-81.flgaroy.clients.pavlovmedia.com) |
| 21:59.47 | lcuk | then who has the copyright? |
| 21:59.48 | crashanddie | actually, I know, but you don't |
| 21:59.52 | lcuk | because its not your binary |
| 21:59.57 | crashanddie | there isn't any copyright provided with the binaries |
| 22:00.11 | kerio | can i have the binaries? |
| 22:00.19 | crashanddie | sure, email? |
| 22:00.21 | crashanddie | pm it |
| 22:00.48 | MohammadAG51 | crashanddie, use strings on the .ko |
| 22:00.48 | crashanddie | lcuk: I suspect it is GPL due to a transcript I've read, of swc|666 ranting in another channel |
| 22:01.07 | MohammadAG51 | license=GPL |
| 22:01.12 | crashanddie | aww crap |
| 22:01.37 | MohammadAG51 | so, swc|666 should provide the sources of the blobs |
| 22:01.56 | MohammadAG51 | otherwise he's violating the GPL |
| 22:02.03 | SpeedEvil | Licence=GPL does not mean that it is GPL licence. |
| 22:02.14 | crashanddie | well, it is, actually |
| 22:02.17 | kerio | SpeedEvil: hard to think of something else |
| 22:02.29 | crashanddie | SpeedEvil: the driver is based off the wl1251 driver |
| 22:02.33 | crashanddie | which is GPL |
| 22:02.40 | crashanddie | and has been modified |
| 22:02.43 | SpeedEvil | there have - for example - been cases when COPYING was distributed on DVDs that were not GPL |
| 22:02.44 | crashanddie | so the changes should be released |
| 22:02.47 | SpeedEvil | ah - k |
| 22:03.04 | MohammadAG51 | indeed, so it's not crashanddie violating the GPL here |
| 22:03.16 | crashanddie | well, I understand lcuk's point |
| 22:03.19 | SpeedEvil | It is if he's further redistributing. |
| 22:03.32 | crashanddie | I'm helping in the distribution of code that violates the GPL |
| 22:03.32 | SpeedEvil | It's _everyones_ fault that redistributes without source. |
| 22:03.41 | SpeedEvil | And they all have the obligation to provide source. |
| 22:03.58 | MohammadAG51 | then swc|666 has to do that, not crashanddie |
| 22:03.59 | crashanddie | SpeedEvil: does C code with the function list but ASM inside count as code? |
| 22:04.11 | crashanddie | cuz I have that |
| 22:04.11 | SpeedEvil | Of course - if they don't have it - that's tricky - but it's no different than a router maker that ships the router without GPL source as they weren't given it. |
| 22:04.14 | crashanddie | and it compiles (kinda) |
| 22:04.38 | MohammadAG51 | well, can't crashanddie just change licenses? |
| 22:04.44 | crashanddie | nope |
| 22:05.17 | crashanddie | Well, I could just include a GPL licence with swc|666's details as the author, so he gets the problems, not me :P |
| 22:05.20 | SpeedEvil | Because someone is violating GPL does not give you the right to that code. |
| 22:05.37 | SpeedEvil | If I take mplayer, patch it and release it, I'm violating GPL. |
| 22:05.55 | SpeedEvil | however, you do not have the right to take that code, and slap a GPL on it - even if you have the actual code. |
| 22:06.12 | MohammadAG51 | swc|666, mind pitching in? |
| 22:06.13 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@88.193.150.143) |
| 22:06.28 | SpeedEvil | Me violating the license does not give you the licence to code I wrote. |
| 22:06.28 | crashanddie | ok, and if I reverse engineer the ASM and re-implement it myself, am I still violating? |
| 22:07.22 | SpeedEvil | That's beyond my knowledge. |
| 22:07.24 | wmarone | crashanddie: probably, but it could be argued that the code is "contaminted" |
| 22:07.32 | wmarone | contaminated* |
| 22:07.41 | crashanddie | do you mean "tainted"? |
| 22:07.48 | SpeedEvil | Consider though that you can do the same for windows. |
| 22:07.58 | SpeedEvil | And I'm sure Microsoft would be very unhappy. |
| 22:08.12 | SpeedEvil | (though it would take a couple of weeks more than doing the wl* drivers) |
| 22:08.14 | wmarone | crashanddie: iirc, that's the phrasing they used when reverse engineering the BIOS decades ago |
| 22:08.18 | crashanddie | except that Microsoft would attack me on other things |
| 22:08.27 | crashanddie | patents, trademarks |
| 22:10.16 | SpeedEvil | My latest fun licence related realisation has been that if you have a TPM system - or one where the user can't access running binaries - you can get round GPL entirely by shipping the user the (encrypted) source, and compiling on device. |
| 22:10.29 | SpeedEvil | When it gets to the user. |
| 22:10.43 | GAN900 | Seems like way too much work. |
| 22:11.22 | SpeedEvil | The nasty licence conditions - requiring release of source code - are not triggered - as you're not distribting object, and you just have to say it's GPL. |
| 22:11.28 | SpeedEvil | (2 only) |
| 22:14.41 | crashanddie | there is no notice saying I'm not allowed to reverse engineer/decompile. There is just a string that says "GPL". Microsoft's licence however says I'm not allowed to do such things. |
| 22:14.54 | MohammadAG51 | i'm off |
| 22:14.56 | MohammadAG51 | night |
| 22:15.01 | crashanddie | night MohammadAG51 |
| 22:15.09 | crashanddie | I would've loved swc|666's input though. |
| 22:17.22 | *** join/#maemo apol__ (~apol@81.184.58.89.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 22:17.39 | SpeedEvil | Without the licence, the only - sanely legal - interpretation is that you have no licence to do anything other than the author implied |
| 22:17.42 | SpeedEvil | but ... |
| 22:21.34 | crashanddie | Well, sue me. |
| 22:21.55 | crashanddie | If you manage to find out my home address, anyway. |
| 22:23.40 | *** join/#maemo svu (~svu@089-101-075015.ntlworld.ie) |
| 22:26.32 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@IGLD-84-228-153-173.inter.net.il) |
| 22:26.43 | *** join/#maemo g55 (~g55@rgnb-5d87d30b.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 22:29.33 | alterego | Heh, there's two actors from BSG so far. |
| 22:30.34 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@IGLD-84-228-153-173.inter.net.il) |
| 22:31.43 | luke-jr | got banned from swc|666's channel for calling them out on it |
| 22:32.16 | wmarone | heh |
| 22:32.39 | crashanddie | their channel? |
| 22:33.05 | luke-jr | crashanddie: ASM doesn't qualify as source unless it really is source. read the GPL |
| 22:33.18 | crashanddie | and reverse engineering? |
| 22:33.19 | luke-jr | [16:55:57] <crashanddie> I haven't modified it, I'm not bound to publish anything |
| 22:33.26 | luke-jr | not true, GPL requires you to publish it regardless |
| 22:33.30 | luke-jr | or rather, include it |
| 22:33.40 | crashanddie | no I have to provide a way to get it |
| 22:33.45 | luke-jr | crashanddie: reverse engineering is a fair use right |
| 22:33.55 | crashanddie | I can even ask for money for the "making available of the sources" |
| 22:34.05 | kerio | luke-jr: what if my asm really looks like something outputted by gcc? |
| 22:34.06 | luke-jr | crashanddie: you have to include the source, or make it available to anyoen who asks (and include a notice saying so) |
| 22:34.16 | luke-jr | kerio: GCC output isn't source |
| 22:34.26 | crashanddie | and GCC input? |
| 22:34.32 | luke-jr | crashanddie: they have some channel⦠I don't know what it is anymore |
| 22:34.34 | kerio | but asm can be |
| 22:34.48 | crashanddie | As I said, I have C code that compiles and produces the .ko |
| 22:34.49 | luke-jr | crashanddie: source code is defined by the GPL as the preferred form of making modifications |
| 22:34.54 | luke-jr | crashanddie: so it has to be the real source |
| 22:34.58 | *** join/#maemo Echoo (~Echo@2a01:608:ffff:3644:225:22ff:fe17:67d5) |
| 22:35.03 | luke-jr | with comments and everything |
| 22:35.16 | crashanddie | so if I reverse engineer it and re-implement it in the wl1251 code, I'm good |
| 22:35.26 | *** join/#maemo aquatix (~aquatix@higgs.soleus.nu) |
| 22:35.38 | luke-jr | crashanddie: should be, but I think not on a technicality |
| 22:35.47 | luke-jr | there's 2 ways to violate the GPL ;) |
| 22:35.55 | luke-jr | 1. contract infringement |
| 22:35.58 | luke-jr | 2. copyright infringement |
| 22:36.17 | luke-jr | in both cases, though, swc|666 still owns the modifications |
| 22:36.27 | crashanddie | actually, he owns fuck all |
| 22:36.27 | luke-jr | on the other hand, Copyright Law does protect your right to reverse engineer it by default |
| 22:36.33 | crashanddie | the guy who wrote the modified driver owns everything |
| 22:36.34 | luke-jr | so unless he forced you to sign to not doing so⦠|
| 22:36.53 | luke-jr | crashanddie: at least in the USA, if you're paid to do something, the person who paid you holds copyright |
| 22:37.06 | crashanddie | not true |
| 22:37.09 | crashanddie | depends on the contract |
| 22:37.37 | *** join/#maemo krakan (~jonas@193.12.234.194) |
| 22:37.55 | luke-jr | contract can spell out other terms, but the default is the employer owns it |
| 22:38.07 | crashanddie | employer being the keyword here |
| 22:38.22 | crashanddie | and unless there's an employer/employee relationship, there is no transfer of copyright |
| 22:38.28 | crashanddie | not defacto, anyway |
| 22:38.52 | *** join/#maemo DangerMaus (~eeeeeeeee@tuxhacker/loft306) |
| 22:38.54 | luke-jr | well then, who wrote it? :P |
| 22:39.24 | luke-jr | tho presumably they provided swc|666 with the source up front |
| 22:39.29 | luke-jr | which means they have no obligation to send it |
| 22:40.27 | crashanddie | no |
| 22:40.34 | crashanddie | he never had the source if I understand it correctly |
| 22:40.44 | crashanddie | and won't until he finishes paying the dude |
| 22:40.51 | luke-jr | ⦠|
| 22:41.10 | luke-jr | he told me he paid for it out of pocket up front |
| 22:41.27 | crashanddie | again, this is my memory from an IRC transcript, but "the dude" said he'd release the source under GPL 6 months down the line anyway |
| 22:41.44 | luke-jr | ew |
| 22:41.52 | luke-jr | I'm not sure the GPL has a time limit on fulfillign the request |
| 22:42.12 | crashanddie | well, my understanding is that he has creditors who, it's like a whole fucking mafia film |
| 22:42.57 | luke-jr | yeah, I don't see a time limit in the GPL |
| 22:43.01 | luke-jr | at least not GPL-2 |
| 22:43.14 | luke-jr | which means he could just take 6 months to fill any requests for source :/ |
| 22:44.04 | luke-jr | wow, that's a pretty gaping loophole⦠|
| 22:44.07 | crashanddie | well, there you go. If anyone asks for the source, I'll just say "Due to high demand, we are expecting up to 12 months handling time. Please provide payment for postal services of delivery of the source code in advance" |
| 22:44.20 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, if you modify a GPL'd code, you have the obligation to deliver the code with the binary, but you're not obliged to publish the binary to anybody. So original author has a problem at max with neopwn dude |
| 22:44.33 | luke-jr | crashanddie: you need to offer it up front. you can't wait for someone to ask |
| 22:44.54 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: not quite |
| 22:45.06 | luke-jr | the code need not be delivered with the binary as long as you include an offer |
| 22:45.16 | luke-jr | and that offer has no time limit on filling it |
| 22:45.18 | DocScrutinizer | even that |
| 22:45.19 | luke-jr | just on cost |
| 22:45.43 | crashanddie | well, then my offer is as such: "Should you wish to access the source code, feel free to mail your request to <insert PO box here>" |
| 22:45.44 | DocScrutinizer | but the point is, no binary, no code. and binary ships to anybody on *your* discretion |
| 22:46.10 | luke-jr | "Expected handling time is 2 years. Your request can be expediated to a week for a fee of $2000" |
| 22:46.11 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: except that swc|666 is shipping the binary to anyone who pays a fee |
| 22:46.39 | DocScrutinizer | original author just shiped to neopwn, so also the source code will be shipped to neopwn |
| 22:46.47 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: if you go with the 'offer' option, you're obliged to honour a request from anyone, not just who you send the binary to. |
| 22:47.04 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: so that's his problem then, not original authors' |
| 22:47.14 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: Only if they can find you. |
| 22:47.24 | crashanddie | luke-jr: which in this case, is near impossible |
| 22:47.30 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: you're obliged regardless. but obviously you can't request w/o finding them :p |
| 22:47.32 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: If you go and live as a hermit, they can't require you! |
| 22:48.50 | crashanddie | and if the offer to provide source code says swc|666 as the contact to obtain source code? |
| 22:53.17 | DocScrutinizer | aiui the requirement to offer source code is implicitly bound to the continuous act of shipping the binary. And also implicitly is limited to those receiving the binary, either directly or by third party, as long as you are still involved in the shipping |
| 22:55.18 | DocScrutinizer | GPL is tailored against commerce, not primarily against somebody uploading a modified binary to rapidshare |
| 22:55.50 | crashanddie | so as soon as I upload it, and say I'm done, I'm no longer bound to provide source code? |
| 22:55.57 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: uh, no |
| 22:56.02 | crashanddie | Considering I'm |
| 22:56.04 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: FSF encourages commerce |
| 22:56.11 | crashanddie | Considering I'm "no longer involved in the shipping" |
| 22:56.24 | crashanddie | http://tomoyo.sourceforge.jp/cgi-bin/lxr/source/drivers/net/wireless/wl12xx/wl1251_main.c |
| 22:56.28 | crashanddie | I've got the initial code |
| 22:56.33 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: why do you think you ever were ? you got the binary under any contract mentioning GPL? |
| 22:56.42 | crashanddie | nope |
| 22:56.49 | luke-jr | then you can't upload it period |
| 22:56.53 | luke-jr | that's copyright infringement |
| 22:56.57 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@84-75-182-160.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:57.14 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: so why do you bother about GPL then? |
| 22:57.28 | crashanddie | I'll just diff the initial branch code with the one that works for injection |
| 22:57.30 | DocScrutinizer | maybe the code has nothing to do with GPL at all |
| 22:57.34 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: "b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give *any third party*, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange;" |
| 22:57.37 | crashanddie | and reimplement the features that are missing |
| 22:57.56 | crashanddie | "machine-readable copy" |
| 22:58.26 | crashanddie | OK, I know how i'll do this |
| 22:58.40 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: third party is anybody *involved* in the issue, so I can't ask for source of which I never got a binary |
| 22:58.41 | luke-jr | "The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it. For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable." |
| 22:58.45 | crashanddie | dunno if tomorrow will be enough |
| 22:58.59 | crashanddie | luke-jr: yeah yeah, it's all good |
| 22:59.04 | crashanddie | luke-jr: I'll provide all that |
| 22:59.06 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: no, "You" means anybody receiving the binary. |
| 22:59.58 | luke-jr | wait, not quite in this context |
| 23:00.07 | luke-jr | I suppose it can be argued to be ambiguous. |
| 23:00.22 | luke-jr | but "any third party" certainly seems to be more vauge than "any recipient" |
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| 23:02.04 | vanadismobile | is there a local logfile for mail for exchange? |
| 23:02.33 | vanadismobile | i just got an exchange server error and it's not synchronising |
| 23:05.40 | *** join/#maemo hcarrega (~cardinal@a81-84-227-203.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 23:07.44 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: you're perfectly safe to publish in whatever form you like. You received a binary, maybe repackaged it, and distribute a binary. You never signed or accepted any contract. So if anybody comes and tries to prove your binary being a copy of his copyrighted work, you can shoot back and prove it's a derived work from a GPL'd source and you're free to distribute this work, as original author of the original binary you copied can't |
| 23:07.45 | DocScrutinizer | explain how he can legally violate GPL on his binary but otoh request you to obey a copyright he obviously doesn't hold |
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| 23:09.25 | wmarone | deletes MfE account |
| 23:09.48 | DocScrutinizer | and you got no liabilities to anybody but the 'copyright holder' of that binary |
| 23:10.05 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: you can't just redistribute/publish any binary you receive |
| 23:10.21 | DocScrutinizer | sure you can, see crashanddie - he does |
| 23:10.29 | luke-jr | and you wouldn't be infringing just on swc's copyright, but all the copyright holders to the wl12xx driver |
| 23:10.33 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: illegally |
| 23:10.37 | DocScrutinizer | you just have to prepare to get sued for it |
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| 23:10.54 | luke-jr | so much for 'perfectly safe' |
| 23:11.16 | luke-jr | where did he publish it, anyhow? |
| 23:11.17 | luke-jr | ;) |
| 23:11.20 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: you're not aware of any other copyright holders |
| 23:11.29 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: irrelevant. |
| 23:11.38 | DocScrutinizer | BS |
| 23:11.38 | luke-jr | you don't need to be aware of the copyright holders to infringe on it |
| 23:12.10 | luke-jr | by default, you cannot publish any software unless you made it yourself from scratch |
| 23:12.20 | DocScrutinizer | ofc any of the original (C) holders (the real ones) can sue you |
| 23:12.21 | luke-jr | even if there's no copyright declared on it |
| 23:12.59 | DocScrutinizer | and you'll happily add his GPL and (C) notice, and the parts of code he claims is his |
| 23:13.05 | luke-jr | I would venture to guess that no original copyright holder of wl12xx would sue crashanddie, since it's not really his fault |
| 23:13.25 | DocScrutinizer | and if that'S not enough you have to stop publishing, as you don't have any better source |
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| 23:14.14 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: the term 'you can not' is largely inadequate in this stage of discussion |
| 23:14.17 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: yeah, that's what I figured for some time now |
| 23:14.35 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: I'm going to release the binary form, and then work on re-implementing it myself if neopwn doesn't want to release |
| 23:14.38 | luke-jr | ponders if hex editing a binary arguably makes it the 'source code' if you have nothing more readable |
| 23:14.58 | DocScrutinizer | even that |
| 23:15.01 | luke-jr | crashanddie: if I were you, I'd just check with the original copyright holders first |
| 23:15.05 | luke-jr | crashanddie: get their blessing |
| 23:15.24 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: DAMN, who are they??? |
| 23:15.25 | crashanddie | luke-jr: the link I showed earlier are the original copyright holders |
| 23:15.29 | crashanddie | http://tomoyo.sourceforge.jp/cgi-bin/lxr/source/drivers/net/wireless/wl12xx/wl1251_main.c |
| 23:15.35 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: oh you were serious? |
| 23:16.07 | crashanddie | I'm going to use that code, and will be able to fill in the gaps easily |
| 23:16.07 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: you can'tknow who they are |
| 23:16.07 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: why not? |
| 23:16.07 | crashanddie | How hard can it be? |
| 23:16.09 | luke-jr | it's part of mainline |
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| 23:16.20 | DocScrutinizer | uhuh, says who? |
| 23:16.30 | luke-jr | ⦠|
| 23:16.53 | DocScrutinizer | you compared the binary to some original mainline module? |
| 23:17.03 | luke-jr | crashanddie did, as I underrstand it |
| 23:17.29 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: I decompiled the binary, and am cutting through it as we speak |
| 23:17.43 | DocScrutinizer | no, he's going to do that, and as soon as he gets to know I'm sure he'll let the authors know what's going on |
| 23:17.46 | crashanddie | pasting the GPL code that is available and noticing the mismatches between the GPL code and the ASM code |
| 23:18.13 | luke-jr | crashanddie: did their binary happen to have a string identifying the exact compiler used? |
| 23:18.21 | crashanddie | yes |
| 23:18.26 | luke-jr | you could conceivably do a binary diff on it ;) |
| 23:18.26 | DocScrutinizer | until then he's free to distribute the binary and wait to get sued by swc, what never will happen |
| 23:18.41 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: or any other copyright holder |
| 23:18.51 | crashanddie | luke-jr: how would that help? |
| 23:18.58 | crashanddie | luke-jr: oh, in noticing where the changes are? |
| 23:19.02 | luke-jr | crashanddie: exactly |
| 23:19.04 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: just for not including GPL |
| 23:19.13 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: for not including the source code |
| 23:19.25 | DocScrutinizer | fuck, that's BS, he has no src |
| 23:19.34 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: GPL says in that case, you cannot distribute at all |
| 23:19.48 | crashanddie | luke-jr: except I don't have the GPL at all with the binaries |
| 23:19.54 | crashanddie | luke-jr: so how am I supposed to enforce it? |
| 23:19.56 | luke-jr | crashanddie: anyhow, like I said, I'd suggest emailing the wl12xx original authors, summarizing the violation, and asking for them to release you from the GPL in this instance |
| 23:20.11 | DocScrutinizer | tell me where that's written please. And then prove to me how GPL is to apply to a unknown binary |
| 23:20.11 | luke-jr | crashanddie: you can't enforce it. |
| 23:20.18 | luke-jr | crashanddie: legally, you can't distribute the binary at all |
| 23:20.27 | crashanddie | says who? |
| 23:20.34 | luke-jr | crashanddie: Copyright Law and GPL |
| 23:20.46 | crashanddie | I was given the binary, with the mention "Do with it as you please, I'm washing my hands off it" |
| 23:20.49 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: again, if you assume it's not GPL, then you can't distribute it period under any conditions |
| 23:20.51 | DocScrutinizer | who cares about GPL |
| 23:20.53 | DocScrutinizer | ????? |
| 23:21.06 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: f u |
| 23:21.08 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: I can whole day long |
| 23:21.23 | crashanddie | chill guys |
| 23:21.29 | DocScrutinizer | who's going to stop me? |
| 23:21.49 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: with that attitude, I'd sue you if I held the copyright. |
| 23:21.50 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: for sure NOT you |
| 23:22.00 | DocScrutinizer | you don't |
| 23:22.02 | lcuk | holy shit |
| 23:22.03 | crashanddie | ok, no need to get personal |
| 23:22.10 | lcuk | liqflow on livewp single view is awesome |
| 23:22.21 | crashanddie | lcuk: yeah, you launched a hairy topic, it's still going strong |
| 23:22.31 | lcuk | i didn't launch it |
| 23:22.45 | luke-jr | GPL: "If you cannot distribute so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence *you may not distribute the Program at all*." |
| 23:23.06 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: stop quoting irrelevant nonsense |
| 23:23.24 | DocScrutinizer | the binary isn't under GPL, that's the whole point |
| 23:23.29 | crashanddie | lcuk: pretty sure you did guv :P 23:50 < lcuk> crashanddie, i hate to break it to you, but how do you know that the binary you are about to distribute is based on the open code? (devils advocate here, you could be committing just as much a sin as you say this guy is doing) |
| 23:23.31 | luke-jr | fine then |
| 23:23.51 | luke-jr | Copyright Law: """" You may not distribute the program at all, period, unless you have permission from the copyright holder." |
| 23:23.56 | lcuk | crashanddie, oh, that yeah. |
| 23:23.57 | luke-jr | """" = paraphrased |
| 23:24.16 | lcuk | and DocScrutinizer - there is reasonable doubt since everyone was bitching that its exactly what happened |
| 23:24.18 | crashanddie | luke-jr: again, that depends on the country |
| 23:24.28 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: and who's going to sue me? |
| 23:24.29 | lcuk | i merely observed that crashanddie would be in the same situation |
| 23:24.34 | luke-jr | crashanddie: every country I know of defaults to "you cannot distribute" |
| 23:24.37 | crashanddie | lcuk: aye |
| 23:24.42 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: any copyright holder |
| 23:24.53 | DocScrutinizer | shrugs |
| 23:25.10 | DocScrutinizer | we've been there twice before |
| 23:25.13 | crashanddie | luke-jr: Kazakhstan copyright law doesn't. |
| 23:25.24 | luke-jr | so move to Kazakhstan |
| 23:25.32 | lcuk | seriously though crashanddie - liqflow is behind everything on the desktop, its awesome |
| 23:25.33 | crashanddie | didn't you know? I live there. |
| 23:25.35 | crashanddie | I mean here. |
| 23:26.01 | crashanddie | lcuk: how so? |
| 23:26.27 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: you don't know who's copyright holder, you don't know which copyright the binary is under. So you can't assume anything in advance... |
| 23:26.35 | lcuk | vasvlad has added live wallpapers, and he spent time adding support for any application, liqbase ones as well |
| 23:26.35 | DocScrutinizer | but honestly, seeya peeps |
| 23:26.41 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: in that case, you can't distribute it period |
| 23:26.44 | lcuk | so it lives behind all the icons and stuff |
| 23:26.49 | lcuk | and runs at its full speed :) |
| 23:26.56 | DocScrutinizer | period yourself. I can |
| 23:26.56 | crashanddie | lcuk: oooh, shiny |
| 23:27.00 | lcuk | indeed! |
| 23:28.02 | lcuk | crashanddie, it includes all the x11screensavers too! |
| 23:28.07 | lcuk | about 100 of them :D |
| 23:28.22 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: Oook! |
| 23:28.32 | SpeedEvil | I want xlock -inroot -mode flame... |
| 23:32.08 | lcuk | xflame Yes Continuous High http://wiki.maemo.org/Xscreensaver |
| 23:32.14 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, ^ |
| 23:32.26 | lcuk | theres the list of the xscreensavers with notes about cpu use etc |
| 23:33.04 | lcuk | of course, theres also gas balls in ovi store as well |
| 23:33.05 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~neopwn@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 23:33.09 | lcuk | which is opengl based |
| 23:33.25 | alterego | I like gas balls |
| 23:33.44 | alterego | I might work on something similar once I've plowed through my projects. |
| 23:33.51 | lcuk | sure |
| 23:33.59 | lcuk | technically you can take any standard app |
| 23:34.03 | lcuk | and add a config file |
| 23:34.09 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
| 23:34.10 | lcuk | and it will be runnable in the livewp |
| 23:34.14 | SpeedEvil | ponders. |
| 23:35.06 | SpeedEvil | mplayer? |
| 23:35.17 | *** join/#maemo radic (~radic@dslb-094-216-234-136.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:36.07 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, its got movie support anyway |
| 23:36.12 | lcuk | thats another feature lol |
| 23:36.30 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
| 23:37.06 | lcuk | he just added the "one wallpaper for all desktops tweak |
| 23:37.15 | SpeedEvil | A 'live' virtual sky background would be awesome. |
| 23:37.15 | *** join/#maemo panaggio (~panaggio@200-158-190-75.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 23:37.28 | SpeedEvil | But for that, I'd need to install the compass. |
| 23:37.29 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, i think someone already did a video for that |
| 23:37.34 | lcuk | hah |
| 23:37.43 | lcuk | it doesnt have to be that real :P |
| 23:37.52 | lcuk | nice thing |
| 23:37.57 | lcuk | it supports up/down strokes |
| 23:38.05 | lcuk | so i might put calendar on there or something |
| 23:39.08 | lcuk | as it stands now whilst swiping the desktop, i am loving liqflow flowing :D |
| 23:39.17 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 23:39.32 | lcuk | i should make the strokes erode with time |
| 23:39.37 | lcuk | so that the flow slows back down |
| 23:41.21 | alterego | I wrote a nice little QWidget that allows horziontal or vertical view swiping. |
| 23:41.27 | alterego | Been using it in my apps. |
| 23:41.51 | lcuk | alterego, cool beans |
| 23:42.12 | alterego | It is a really cool UX design pattern |
| 23:42.21 | alterego | I feel quite cool doing it :) |
| 23:42.27 | lcuk | does it move to next "tile" like the desktop does |
| 23:42.32 | lcuk | or swipe continuous |
| 23:42.45 | alterego | It slides to the next tile. |
| 23:43.28 | lcuk | wow, the YUV overlay even shows through transparency on widgets |
| 23:43.48 | alterego | Yeah, |
| 23:48.54 | *** join/#maemo b0tz (~b0tz@unaffiliated/b0tz) |
| 23:50.39 | lcuk | MohammadAG51, whats the simplest way to flash the led light (any colour?) |
| 23:51.43 | alterego | All done via dbus |
| 23:51.47 | alterego | I thought |
| 23:52.01 | alterego | You can get it to execute any of the patterns in the mce config file. |
| 23:54.56 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: echo > file |
| 23:55.15 | SpeedEvil | Or yes - dbus if you just want it to flash and any pattern is OK |
| 23:55.33 | lcuk | i just want to make it flash for a quick test in the frame renderer |
| 23:55.42 | lcuk | to make sure when screensaver comes on |
| 23:55.46 | lcuk | it actually stops |
| 23:56.02 | lcuk | errr screen dims |
| 23:57.07 | alterego | Check out fcam |
| 23:57.10 | alterego | See how they do it. |
| 23:57.28 | lcuk | its ok |
| 23:57.34 | lcuk | i just running top over ssh |
| 23:57.40 | lcuk | was thinking overly complex |
| 23:57.42 | lcuk | :) |
