| 00:00.21 | *** join/#maemo Bash (~Bash@94-193-105-245.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 00:01.52 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 00:04.39 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: nonono, you need to throttle system load. Then system power consumption will drop, and temperature will drop, and battery will resume to charge as bq24150 is delivering sufficient power to supply systen *and* charge battery. If temp still too high then, your normal charge trottling will kick in as now battery is not DIScharging any more. Charge trottling will cause battery to discharge again, causing further system load throttling. |
| 00:04.41 | DocScrutinizer | .. this continues until temperature is going down to a reasonable level |
| 00:09.26 | MNZ | felipec, do you have any insider information on PA? Is it only needed for speaker protection and audio prioritizing (calls mute other audio, etc) ? or is there more to it? |
| 00:09.42 | MNZ | (insider information that can be shared, ie :) |
| 00:10.28 | *** join/#maemo fcrochik (~fcrochik@cpe-174-097-248-002.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 00:11.24 | felipec | MNZ: I don't think there's anything internal about it, Jyri Sarha did a presentation about it |
| 00:11.50 | felipec | http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Jyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf |
| 00:11.54 | *** join/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 00:11.57 | MNZ | felipec, yes, I've seen the slides and they're rather vague. And if there's nothing internal... why no sources? |
| 00:12.16 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: for this to work properly, you should differentiate the temperature reading, ans also delay the charge throttling by some 30..60s, so when you throttle system load, you give cell temp some 30s time to idicate it "plans to drop", and not start charge throttling if temp is on its way down |
| 00:13.17 | felipec | MNZ: pulseaudio is used for many reasons, good latency control, protection of the speakers, audio policy, mixing |
| 00:13.47 | felipec | volume |
| 00:14.23 | ShadowJK | people hate it though when it eats 30% CPU and they could be using that for something else :) |
| 00:15.12 | MNZ | felipec, all that can be managed without PA. It's only the audio policy that might be tricky, but DocScrutinizer says he's got an answer in the form of an alsa plugin :D |
| 00:15.41 | DocScrutinizer | mixing: ALSA dmix. latency control: we don't need that, and actually latency with PA is usually even higher than with mere ALSA. Protection of speakers: could have been implemented as a ALSA plugin as well. Audio policy: well I elaborated on that some 23h ago, in this chan. |
| 00:15.48 | ShadowJK | oh dear god, alsa plugins.. I thought they invented pulseaudio just because alsa plugins were undebugable and unfixable ;P |
| 00:16.44 | felipec | DocScrutinizer: I don't recall the issues with ALSA dmix, but there certainly were |
| 00:17.11 | ShadowJK | I've never seen dmix working yet :/ |
| 00:17.14 | DocScrutinizer | mhm, not here. I got severe issues with PA mixing instead |
| 00:17.29 | felipec | DocScrutinizer: and no, the algorithms are proprietary from Nokia, the couldn't be implemented as ALSA plugins without violating the licence, or something like that |
| 00:17.32 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: I've never seen it failing |
| 00:17.47 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 00:18.16 | MNZ | ShadowJK, alsa on most systems is running dmix by default as they can't do multiple streams natively, AIUI |
| 00:18.54 | DocScrutinizer | so we use PA as Nokia doesn't like the licence of ALSA, and also doesn't think it could disclose the code of those 'magic' plugins. Now that's what I call reasonable |
| 00:18.58 | ShadowJK | MNZ, i think they moved to having pulse open alsa hw direct because dmix was too buggy? ;p |
| 00:19.51 | DocScrutinizer | dmix never was buggy, as long as I know about it |
| 00:19.53 | MNZ | ShadowJK, I'm on debian right now and they have a deep rooted hate for PA. Audio works like a charm. I can actually do mp3 at close to 1% cpu on my core 2 duo |
| 00:20.49 | felipec | DocScrutinizer: what do you expect? Nokia to spend a huge amount of money rewriting some internal code that is considered a competitive advantage into something open-source friendly? |
| 00:21.09 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, maybe? |
| 00:21.22 | MNZ | ok so there IS some internal stuff, felipec ? |
| 00:21.42 | felipec | DocScrutinizer: we would be releasing the N900 right now if everything had to be perfect |
| 00:21.50 | ShadowJK | :) |
| 00:22.06 | SpeedEvil | felipe: can you elaborate on what the closed code is for in the audio chain? |
| 00:22.10 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, but that's no argument |
| 00:22.12 | MNZ | just how much of a competitive advantage though :/ I mean audio mixing and policy?? |
| 00:22.31 | felipec | SpeedEvil: you mean in PA chain? |
| 00:22.40 | derf | I suspect they more mean acoustic echo cancellation and speech pre/post processing. |
| 00:22.45 | SpeedEvil | felipe: yes |
| 00:23.59 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, nothing personal, but I feel I'm building up a mood to argue. So I prefer to part this convo for a while, chilling... |
| 00:24.41 | MNZ | haha cheers doc :) |
| 00:27.37 | felipec | SpeedEvil: I don't recall all the details, but there were quite a lot; echo cancellation, equalizer, speaker protection |
| 00:28.27 | SpeedEvil | hmm. The PDF I saw on the PA phone interface strongly implied that the phone module did all of that. |
| 00:28.33 | SpeedEvil | the echo that is. |
| 00:28.41 | SpeedEvil | Thanks. |
| 00:29.36 | *** part/#maemo DrGrov (~C.J@a91-153-77-41.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 00:29.40 | felipec | SpeedEvil: no, the phone chip is doing some stuff, but I don't recall exactly what |
| 00:30.12 | felipec | fortunately PA seems to have it's own echo cancellation nowadays :) |
| 00:30.24 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 00:30.48 | derf | Whose code is that? |
| 00:32.10 | felipec | derf: I don't know, I've seem some patches from Wim Tayman, from GStreamer/Collabora |
| 00:33.01 | derf | Just wondering if they're based on the Speex one, or something else. |
| 00:33.33 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. I wonder if the echo cancellation is for skype |
| 00:33.42 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:33.42 | derf | Skype does their own. |
| 00:34.38 | MNZ | so it seems it will not be possible to rip out PA completely because of the closed source stuff depending on it (ie, phone functionality). But for media purposes it looks quite possible to replace PA completely (as far as the info we have goes...) |
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| 00:35.24 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure. |
| 00:35.29 | derf | Yes, PA is using the Speex one. |
| 00:35.35 | derf | Found the patch. |
| 00:35.45 | SpeedEvil | I think it's possible. |
| 00:36.41 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@BSN-61-36-236.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 00:37.29 | MNZ | AFAICT everything's pretty much covered. Anywho, I'll find that out soon enough :D |
| 00:37.40 | SpeedEvil | Great work MNZ |
| 00:38.31 | MNZ | :) |
| 00:39.34 | MNZ | Which reminds me... anyone willing to do a quick parametric EQ UI for maemo :/ ??? pretty please? |
| 00:42.32 | lcuk | MNZ, you have to give more info about the available data :) |
| 00:42.42 | felipec | the NAC says 10mAh are consumed each 10min |
| 00:42.45 | lcuk | ie format, frequency etc |
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| 00:43.36 | ShadowJK | felipec, so that's 60mA |
| 00:43.50 | ShadowJK | But like, the precision is only good enough for +- 10% :) |
| 00:44.23 | MNZ | lcuk, I just want an empty shell really... sliders for bandwidth and center frequency and gain, and a selector for filter type. The difficult part (I think) is in figuring out how to integrate this into hildon the Right Way(tm) |
| 00:44.38 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@BSN-61-36-236.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 00:44.46 | lcuk | you can use kitchen scales to accurately determine the weight of a single penny |
| 00:45.07 | lcuk | if you do enough samples with multiples of them :P |
| 00:45.10 | felipec | ShadowJK: well, that matches the AI Average |
| 00:45.23 | lcuk | MNZ, right so you want the input side of it |
| 00:45.32 | lcuk | not the graphical output |
| 00:45.39 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: Or you are a geek. And your kitchen scales weigh to 0.1g |
| 00:46.01 | SpeedEvil | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.17483 |
| 00:46.02 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, i actually meant bathroom scales |
| 00:46.08 | lcuk | is tired |
| 00:46.23 | smhar | greetings |
| 00:46.25 | MNZ | lcuk, heck if you can graph the curves then all the better :P but yeah the plan was just to have a basic UI as opposed to no ui at all |
| 00:46.26 | lcuk | and I once did it using a lovely pile of pennies |
| 00:46.28 | SpeedEvil | I have contemplated refitting my bathroom scales with 18 bit ADCs |
| 00:46.56 | lcuk | MNZ, specifically different ends of the spectrum literally |
| 00:47.18 | lcuk | but something that it would have to do is like a real eq |
| 00:47.30 | lcuk | a single swipe across all the inputs should set the levels of each |
| 00:48.00 | MNZ | lcuk, I'm afraid you lost me |
| 00:48.11 | ShadowJK | felipec, getting any usable comparison data btw? |
| 00:48.29 | lcuk | well if you have a 10 bar EQ - 10 sliders. you dont want to need to click change each |
| 00:48.44 | lcuk | you want to be able to run finger horizontally across all |
| 00:48.47 | lcuk | in one swipe |
| 00:49.12 | smhar | I have a small home network. I can connect to it wirelessly using the N900 and I can access the internet to read emails/browse/install applications ..etc . the problem is: although I can ping my router -and browse its admin page- from N900, I can not ping or access my dreambox . any tips? |
| 00:49.32 | lcuk | what is your dreambox? |
| 00:49.42 | SpeedEvil | I guess it's like a dreamcatcher. |
| 00:49.47 | SpeedEvil | Is it made by indians? |
| 00:49.57 | ShadowJK | There's like a PMP/DVR thingy called "dreambox". |
| 00:50.03 | ShadowJK | i think |
| 00:50.22 | MNZ | lcuk, thing is, it's not a graphical EQ really, mostly because I haven't figured out how to (if it's possible) go from a graphical eq to parameters for a parametric eq (which is closer to what we have) |
| 00:50.57 | nox- | ShadowJK is right (i have one too :) |
| 00:51.01 | smhar | oh... sorry. dreambox is my TV satellite receiver -linux based- which is connected to my router using LAN |
| 00:51.23 | lcuk | smhar, can other devices on your network happily ping or access it? |
| 00:51.31 | lcuk | on your wifi network |
| 00:51.33 | nox- | can you ping other boxen on your lan from n900? |
| 00:52.04 | felipec | ShadowJK: not yet, now that I know I can get some relatively good number I'll start gathering data for gst-av, and then the alternatives |
| 00:52.20 | ShadowJK | ok :) |
| 00:52.26 | smhar | the N900 is the only device accessing the network through wifi, the rest all all in LAN using ethernet |
| 00:52.54 | SpeedEvil | smhar: you should look at your router config |
| 00:52.55 | smhar | an I can ping/telnet to DB from all the other computers. |
| 00:52.55 | lcuk | smhar, then I would suggest trying something else on the wifi |
| 00:53.04 | lcuk | and look towards problem being router config |
| 00:53.13 | ShadowJK | can you ping your other devices, not counting router? |
| 00:53.16 | SpeedEvil | smhar: the router is probably not setup to bridge the two nets |
| 00:53.31 | MNZ | I must get some eye shut time... good night #maemo! |
| 00:53.38 | lcuk | nn MNZ \o |
| 00:54.26 | smhar | yes. I can ping my other computers from N900 |
| 00:54.37 | nox- | huh |
| 00:54.39 | ShadowJK | :/ |
| 00:55.02 | nox- | checked packet filter rules on the router? |
| 00:57.02 | smhar | no, will try that |
| 00:59.00 | smhar | ok, I tried something else: I pinged N900 from other computers: it worked. I tried pinging DB from other computers: it failed !! |
| 00:59.20 | smhar | probably the DB does not accept pinging |
| 00:59.24 | smhar | ? |
| 00:59.33 | nox- | oh |
| 00:59.49 | nox- | can the n900 get to the dreambox' httpd? |
| 01:00.35 | *** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (Smily@BSN-61-52-18.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 01:00.45 | nox- | (and btw mine doesnt block pings tho its also an old one, dm7000) |
| 01:01.09 | smhar | nox-, mine is dm7000 :-) |
| 01:01.13 | nox- | hm |
| 01:01.19 | nox- | which firmware do you use? |
| 01:01.39 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@user-12lcboo.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 01:01.53 | nox- | anyway try pointing a browser at it |
| 01:02.02 | smhar | I do not remember.. its been a while since I last updated it, it uses the gemini |
| 01:02.08 | nox- | ah |
| 01:05.11 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@BSN-61-56-184.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 01:06.11 | DocScrutinizer | k, 9h on WLAN with xchat on 7 chan: bq27k says bat=85%, lshal aka bme says 75% |
| 01:07.16 | *** part/#maemo itsME (~nevermind@cpc3-lee24-0-0-cust551.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 01:10.04 | smhar | stupid me . the network cable to the DB was disconnected, probably my 1yr old son :-) I can ping DB from N900 now |
| 01:10.53 | nox- | aah :) |
| 01:11.25 | nox- | now you can try dreamremote :) |
| 01:11.37 | *** join/#maemo Mr_Nobu (~MonkeyPuz@78.148.90.241) |
| 01:11.52 | DocScrutinizer | first level help desk rules: 1. question - is your device plugged into mains? |
| 01:12.10 | nox- | hehe |
| 01:13.13 | SpeedEvil | 2. Should it be? |
| 01:13.19 | SpeedEvil | 3. Has it burst into flames? |
| 01:14.22 | *** join/#maemo Smily (Smily@BSN-61-40-137.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 01:14.42 | smhar | nox-, did you try DreamRemote? is it working with your DB7000? |
| 01:14.51 | *** join/#maemo Dr_Nobu (~MonkeyPuz@92.25.206.154) |
| 01:15.33 | nox- | no my firmware is too old... |
| 01:17.40 | smhar | nox-, why not updating it?! |
| 01:18.15 | nox- | you know the old saying `if it aint broke dont fix it'? :) |
| 01:19.05 | sevard | uf it ain't broke it needs more custom feature patches |
| 01:19.06 | nox- | (actually i read about `boot problems' on dm7000 with newer fw...) |
| 01:19.42 | nox- | ..and then i just dont felt like messing with it :) |
| 01:19.50 | *** join/#maemo srw (~swo@p5DF3C114.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:23.44 | ShadSEC | Anyone knows what else is playing with wlan connections besides wlancond? |
| 01:24.37 | SpeedEvil | icd |
| 01:24.40 | SpeedEvil | icd2 even |
| 01:24.53 | ShadSEC | and why I can connect to a wlan from commandline but not doing the same when wlancond is stopped, that is whats driving me crazy |
| 01:26.14 | SpeedEvil | The closedpartrs are really annoying in this case. |
| 01:26.17 | ShadSEC | SpeedEvil, you say to me? |
| 01:27.18 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 01:27.41 | SpeedEvil | The interactions of icd and wlancond are not transparent |
| 01:27.45 | ShadSEC | never heard about icd2, doing some reasing thanks :) |
| 01:28.10 | SpeedEvil | And inmany cases get inthe way |
| 01:28.13 | bef0rd | Hey, is it possible to restore Nokia files from the built in emmc? I formatted it by accident :P |
| 01:28.15 | *** join/#maemo mikki-kun (~mikki-kun@243-108.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 01:28.24 | ShadSEC | and is there any steps to free wlan from their interaction while I am managing it? |
| 01:28.49 | ShadSEC | i mean, any steps already documented i could follow, i dont seem to find anything about it |
| 01:28.51 | SpeedEvil | No public way |
| 01:29.01 | SpeedEvil | It's a closed sourcethingy |
| 01:29.01 | ShadSEC | urgh |
| 01:29.33 | SpeedEvil | I want to tether over wifi. |
| 01:29.35 | ShadSEC | So, basically, i cant FREELY manage wlan without some process messing it? |
| 01:29.40 | SpeedEvil | And it gets in the way trhere. |
| 01:29.49 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it, yes, you can't. |
| 01:30.03 | ShadSEC | madness :S |
| 01:30.04 | SpeedEvil | You can kill wlancond and icd - but obvious problems then happen |
| 01:30.36 | ShadSEC | wlancondd i thought everything was ok, until i noticed then something is missing for everything to work alright |
| 01:31.05 | ShadSEC | gezz, i lost all past night thinking it was my fault |
| 01:32.05 | SpeedEvil | What are you trying to do? |
| 01:32.57 | ShadSEC | at this time, i am porting one program i made some years ago for running on openwrt |
| 01:33.10 | ShadSEC | similar to airoscript |
| 01:33.27 | SpeedEvil | what's it do? |
| 01:34.02 | ShadSEC | do you know airoscript? |
| 01:35.39 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 01:36.16 | ShadSEC | oh ok, anyway, its not the same... |
| 01:36.58 | ShadSEC | its the part where i need to setup a regular connection to an ap where it is giving trouble |
| 01:37.13 | ShadSEC | it only associates if wlancond is running |
| 01:37.29 | ShadSEC | but then it just steps into when it feels like |
| 01:37.43 | ShadSEC | wlancond or whatever is messing with my setup |
| 01:37.55 | SpeedEvil | yeah. :/ |
| 01:38.03 | SpeedEvil | you have iwconfig? |
| 01:38.06 | SpeedEvil | and friends |
| 01:38.06 | ShadSEC | yep |
| 01:38.19 | ShadSEC | its what i am using to setup it up |
| 01:38.33 | ShadSEC | the problem is whatever is messing with my connection afterwards |
| 01:38.41 | ShadSEC | sometimes sooner, sometimes later |
| 01:39.20 | *** join/#maemo Arkenoi (~ark@178.176.153.41) |
| 01:43.45 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@BSN-61-61-227.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 01:45.15 | ShadSEC | well, if I wlancond is the main offender i guess its time to strace it till death :) |
| 01:48.30 | *** join/#maemo b-man` (~b-man@pool-70-106-196-95.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 01:48.58 | nox- | this any help? http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Networking |
| 01:55.39 | ShadSEC | mmm, the disconnect internet d-bus call is interesting |
| 01:55.59 | lolloo | is there a program for n900 that lets me copy text from it and then paste it on the pc? |
| 01:56.14 | ShadSEC | i supposse theer are many more dbus calls not documented there, righ? |
| 01:57.42 | nox- | lolloo, you could use sshd + screen i guess... |
| 01:57.53 | ShadSEC | how have people get to know about all those dbus calls? maybe there is some source for all of them or just reverse engineering? |
| 01:58.17 | ShadSEC | source i mean, documentation or something |
| 01:58.26 | SpeedEvil | reverse engineering |
| 01:58.27 | SpeedEvil | AIUI |
| 01:58.32 | SpeedEvil | ceck the authorr |
| 01:58.35 | ShadSEC | or a standard.. i never heard about those dbus calls before n900 |
| 01:58.38 | SpeedEvil | of the wiki |
| 01:59.00 | ShadSEC | i see, so then that main source that there is for now |
| 01:59.04 | ShadSEC | thats |
| 01:59.43 | DocScrutinizer | introspection |
| 02:00.33 | DocScrutinizer | though lots of the Nokia specific systems don't support dbus introspection |
| 02:00.53 | lolloo | nox- , ssh? what is it? |
| 02:01.28 | nox- | oh is that like apple blocking tracing of itunes on osx? |
| 02:01.56 | nox- | lolloo, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openssh |
| 02:02.06 | *** join/#maemo Smily (Smily@BSN-61-58-86.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 02:02.35 | lolloo | nox- , thanks |
| 02:02.36 | ShadSEC | interesting |
| 02:02.38 | DocScrutinizer | mdbus2 might come in handy |
| 02:03.38 | *** join/#maemo Mr_Nobu (~MonkeyPuz@92.25.206.154) |
| 02:03.57 | ShadSEC | lolloo, there is no simple way to do that that i know of |
| 02:04.54 | nox- | well screen should support copy/paste but yes its not `that' simple :) |
| 02:04.59 | DocScrutinizer | >> mdbus2 -i drops you into a shell mode, where you can interactively explore services and call methods using readline command line completion and history. |
| 02:08.57 | lolloo | if there was a website link on my n900, and I wanted to send it to the pc.. mmm maybe I need notepad? |
| 02:10.35 | SpeedEvil | pastebinit |
| 02:16.01 | *** join/#maemo Smily (Smily@BSN-61-46-167.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 02:16.08 | *** join/#maemo Ken-Young (~Ken@pool-68-160-8-176.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 02:20.42 | zokier | or use some url shortener |
| 02:28.24 | ShadSEC | wlancond is NOT stepping into my setup... now lets see if it is just something missing or is it another program.... |
| 02:30.00 | ShadSEC | I guess this is another of the ways ppl is using to document dbus calls: |
| 02:30.09 | ShadSEC | read(4, "l\1\0\1\0\0\0\0\357\5\0\0\216\0\0\0\1\1o\0\33\0\0\0/com/nokia/wlancond/request\0\0\0\0\0\6\1s\0\22\0\0\0com.nokia.wlancond\0\0\0\0\0\0\2\1s\0\32\0\0\0com.nokia.wlancond.request\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\1s\0\6\0\0\0status\0\0\7\1s\0\5\0\0\0:1.89\0\0\0", |
| 02:30.25 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@a88-115-22-81.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
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| 02:32.50 | *** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 02:33.27 | *** join/#maemo tchan (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) |
| 02:37.49 | ShadSEC | hahaha |
| 02:37.55 | ShadSEC | here it is :) |
| 02:37.59 | ShadSEC | read(4, "l\1\0\1@\0\0\0M\6\0\0\266\0\0\0\1\1o\0\33\0\0\0/com/nokia/wlancond/request\0\0\0\0\0\6\1s\0\22\0\0\0com.nokia.wlancond\0\0\0\0\0\0\2\1s\0\32\0\0\0com.nokia.wlancond.request\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\1s\0\24\0\0\0settings_and_connect\0\0\0\0\10\1g\0\17iayiiayayayayiu\0\0\0\0\7\1s\0\5\0\0\0:1.89\0\0\0\10\0\0\0\10\0\0\0fon2200\0\1\0\0\0 \0\0\0\r\0\0\0\372\372\372\372\372\372\372\372\372\372\372\372\372\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\1\0\0\0 |
| 02:38.04 | ShadSEC | strace is yer friend :P |
| 02:38.18 | ShadSEC | thats the dbus call for setting up a wlan |
| 02:39.05 | ShadSEC | 372/372/372... etc is the WEP key fon2200 the essid etc... |
| 02:43.41 | zokier | http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-monitor.1.html might be easier than strace :) |
| 02:44.37 | ShadSEC | oh |
| 02:45.20 | ShadSEC | thx, i guess i need to read a lot more about that dbus thing :P |
| 02:50.23 | ShadSEC | wow,this is awesome |
| 02:50.43 | ShadSEC | so the "right" way to do things on n900 is through dbus? |
| 02:56.31 | zr0 | is there a decent facebook client for the n900 besides the web browser? |
| 02:59.05 | ShadSEC | zokier, this this dbus-monitor adds another dimension but... it is not showing any of wlancond dbus calls i got using strace |
| 02:59.27 | ShadSEC | maybe there are calls that aren't shown or maybe i am doing anything wrong? |
| 03:01.23 | zokier | have you monitored both session and system bus? |
| 03:02.11 | ShadSEC | no i just did dbus-monitor > |
| 03:02.17 | ShadSEC | thx :) |
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| 03:11.37 | ShadSEC | zokier, definitely not showing up... there are some dbus calls of wlancond on --system, but not the setup wlan one... |
| 03:12.06 | ShadSEC | does this show both requests and replys? I mean... is it all the conversation going on dbus? |
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| 03:15.01 | Bobbe | interesting |
| 03:15.06 | Bobbe | NSU is allowing to re-install 1.2 |
| 03:15.15 | Bobbe | have you guys been experiencing the same? |
| 03:16.14 | zokier | i think it shows replies too |
| 03:16.37 | Bobbe | ?? |
| 03:17.44 | ShadSEC | and is it possible some calls are made to no show up? |
| 03:18.38 | zokier | i'm not sure... it can be possible that it uses some other bus for internal calls |
| 03:19.46 | zokier | eg the wlan daemon or something runs as some different user, and it uses that users session bus |
| 03:19.54 | zokier | just guessing here |
| 03:19.59 | ShadSEC | but it follows the same dbus format... Ill try to see what happens if I send that dbus call... when I read how to do that ... |
| 03:20.33 | ShadSEC | in the straced call it identifies and wlancond |
| 03:20.38 | ShadSEC | as wlancond |
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| 03:21.14 | ShadSEC | just the same as other that are showing up, but the two most interesting calls arent |
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| 04:49.46 | RST38bis | Doc: here? |
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| 04:53.17 | RST38bis | Anyway, once any of swap-interested parties awaken, check out this: http://lwn.net/Articles/334649/ |
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| 04:54.20 | lolloo | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hYV-JSjpyU&feature=related |
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| 05:07.06 | TermanaN900 | yello |
| 05:11.17 | pupnik_ | hi |
| 05:14.34 | pupnik_ | http://pics.nase-bohren.de/dearapple.jpg Apple fans respond to the Ipad (nice tagline at bottom) |
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| 05:44.34 | ilius | [sbox-: ~] > sb-conf select SDK_ARMEL |
| 05:44.34 | ilius | sb-conf: No such target: SDK_ARMEL |
| 05:44.50 | ilius | i don't understand this |
| 05:45.19 | ilius | plz help |
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| 06:19.18 | Texrat | hey th0br0 |
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| 06:21.22 | th0br0 | hello Texrat |
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| 06:45.11 | kulve | felipec: pong |
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| 07:14.23 | shadsec2 | is 8 the maximun in <key>wlan_tx_power</key>? |
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| 07:32.15 | pupnik_ | Cell phone gang wars http://pics.nase-bohren.de/android-rowdies.png |
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| 07:35.48 | `Francesca_Lucch | hey guys |
| 07:36.20 | `Francesca_Lucch | question any of you know whrere i can change opera download path? |
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| 07:36.55 | pupnik_ | dunno |
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| 07:37.05 | `Francesca_Lucch | i want to set a default parth |
| 07:37.09 | `Francesca_Lucch | parth |
| 07:37.12 | `Francesca_Lucch | ... |
| 07:37.23 | `Francesca_Lucch | path |
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| 07:50.16 | pupnik_ | a path a path! |
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| 08:04.46 | plastun | hello! Can anybody vote for Mnemosyne package? I need only one vote for promote it to extras ) |
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| 08:05.01 | bef0rd | what is it |
| 08:05.37 | plastun | This is mobile version of Mnemosyne software |
| 08:05.37 | plastun | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:05.37 | plastun | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:06.27 | plastun | I have version for N800 and N810 in extras, and the current version for N900 |
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| 08:06.49 | `Francesca_Lucch | isnt it an anime? |
| 08:10.37 | `Francesca_Lucch | http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=5530 |
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| 08:11.13 | `Francesca_Lucch | >.> |
| 08:11.38 | psycho_oreos | the name maybe related to anime but it isn't necessarily anime itself, plus the guy who wanted to promote that stuff has got his connection reset by peer :p |
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| 08:12.08 | `Francesca_Lucch | i think he took the name of the anime |
| 08:12.21 | `Francesca_Lucch | but ok |
| 08:13.23 | bef0rd | peer is evil |
| 08:13.27 | psycho_oreos | he may or may not have but its irrelevant.. the name isn't trademarked or registered |
| 08:13.41 | bef0rd | i was going to vote, not sure where I had to |
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| 08:16.38 | psycho_oreos | he probably meant this: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/mnemosyne/2.0.0~beta13~rc1/ |
| 08:18.00 | plastun | oh, yes, this is right link |
| 08:18.09 | bef0rd | done |
| 08:18.25 | psycho_oreos | o.O he's back heh |
| 08:18.42 | plastun | yes, I was disconnected ( |
| 08:18.48 | psycho_oreos | we saw |
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| 08:19.26 | psycho_oreos | and `Francesca_Lucch had a trivial question for you in regards to the name of the app |
| 08:19.48 | plastun | thank you for voting. And I have a question, if my main packet depends on addtition library, writen myself, shoul I promote this library too? |
| 08:20.02 | bef0rd | what's the library about? |
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| 08:20.33 | plastun | it is main mnemosyne library, called libmnemosyne |
| 08:20.44 | plastun | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/python-libmnemosyne/2.0.0-16~rc7/ |
| 08:21.04 | bef0rd | oh, not sure, it's the first time I'm voting, I suppose it will get promoted to extras too, as a dependency |
| 08:21.31 | achipa | bef0rd: plastun: no manual lib promotion - it will get pulled in |
| 08:21.43 | plastun | cool! |
| 08:21.46 | achipa | (unless someone put it in the user/* section, but that is a different story) |
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| 08:24.49 | `Francesca_Lucch | humm where do i get python |
| 08:25.17 | kerio | python.org? |
| 08:25.22 | kerio | oh, you mean in the repos |
| 08:25.37 | `Francesca_Lucch | one for maemo |
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| 08:25.53 | `Francesca_Lucch | N900 |
| 08:26.29 | psycho_oreos | I saw it was available in extras-testing or maybe extras-devel |
| 08:26.41 | `Francesca_Lucch | humm |
| 08:27.26 | psycho_oreos | http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=python&org_maemo_packages_search[2][property]=title&org_maemo_packages_search[2][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[2][value]=same |
| 08:27.34 | psycho_oreos | lol |
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| 08:30.03 | `Francesca_Lucch | o.o |
| 08:30.33 | `Francesca_Lucch | wonder what one is for maemo5 |
| 08:31.18 | psycho_oreos | depends on which one you need I suppose |
| 08:32.02 | psycho_oreos | anyone played with kernel compiling? trying to custom compile titan's kernel with a specific version string but dpkg-buildpackage isn't doing the whole thing right |
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| 08:32.40 | `Francesca_Lucch | the complete pack like as on sayp |
| 08:32.53 | `Francesca_Lucch | s60 |
| 08:33.16 | kerio | `Francesca_Lucch: doesn't work like that |
| 08:33.35 | `Francesca_Lucch | o? |
| 08:33.45 | kerio | also please refrain from using weird characters as the beginning of your nick, it makes it harder to tab-complete |
| 08:33.59 | kerio | "the complete pack" for python probably includes some GBs of libraries |
| 08:34.03 | kerio | there's no "complete pack" |
| 08:34.11 | `Francesca_Lucch | so |
| 08:34.44 | dr34m | morn |
| 08:36.45 | `Francesca_Lucch | symbian-freak.com/downloads/freeware/cat_s60_3rd/descriptions/python/python_for_s60.htm |
| 08:36.48 | `Francesca_Lucch | that |
| 08:36.58 | kerio | yeah, doesn't work like that |
| 08:37.05 | kerio | just install "python" |
| 08:37.10 | kerio | and then install the libraries you need |
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| 08:37.53 | `Francesca_Lucch | i see |
| 08:38.17 | `Francesca_Lucch | oh yeah how come solarwolf game dont run |
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| 08:40.20 | `Francesca_Lucch | humm only rtill maemo4 |
| 08:40.26 | `Francesca_Lucch | till* |
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| 08:44.04 | trumee | anybody using a blueetooth mouse with N900. I need a recommendation on what mouse to buy? |
| 08:44.57 | kerio | a bluetooth one |
| 08:46.01 | trumee | kerio: yes |
| 08:46.12 | kerio | no, that's my recommendation |
| 08:46.31 | trumee | kerio: all bt mouse work with N900? |
| 08:46.37 | kerio | i don't see why not |
| 08:46.50 | `Francesca_Lucch | lol |
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| 09:01.38 | psycho_oreos | problem is why would you want a bt mouse? do you want RSI/CTS? :) |
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| 09:04.16 | felipec | kulve: I got vorbis, flac and mp3 working on gst-av, and fixed oggdemux and flacparse to work with tagreadbin, I'm trying to measure the power usage |
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| 09:09.37 | trumee | psycho_oreos: whats wrong with bt mouse? |
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| 09:09.55 | trumee | i was going to travel soon and did not want to carry laptop with me. |
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| 09:10.12 | psycho_oreos | trumee, that issue is not related to bt mouse but mouse in general |
| 09:10.41 | trumee | I have a bt keyboard and wanted a mouse to accompany that |
| 09:11.03 | trumee | seems on tmo people are reporting problems pairing bt mouse. |
| 09:11.07 | psycho_oreos | N900 has touch screen |
| 09:11.40 | trumee | psycho_oreos: yes, but bt mouse is little better to handle |
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| 09:12.17 | trumee | cheapest i have found http://www.ebuyer.com/product/169790 |
| 09:12.31 | trumee | not sure it would pair with N900 or not. |
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| 09:14.07 | MohammadAG51 | Any mouse would pair, as long as it has a pair code i guess |
| 09:14.15 | psycho_oreos | trumee, better to handle till you get RSI/CTS but whatever |
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| 09:28.02 | kulve | felipec: ok. Let me know about the results :) |
| 09:31.26 | felipec | kulve: so far it seems to be: nokiamp3=72mAh, libvorbis=114mAh, libflac=66mAh, ffmp3/ffvorbis/ffflac=66mAh |
| 09:33.44 | kulve | felipec: nice numbers (both the fact that vorbis is taking so little and the useful mAh measurements) |
| 09:34.52 | kulve | felipec: uhm, why mAh? What does it mean actually..? |
| 09:35.24 | felipec | sorry, I meant mA |
| 09:35.34 | kulve | felipec: ah, ok :) |
| 09:35.42 | felipec | kulve: here's the script I used: http://pastie.org/1153444 |
| 09:36.35 | kulve | I wonder how accurate that is.. Have you tried to reproduce those multiple times? |
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| 09:37.49 | shadsec2 | Anyone knows the full com.nokia.wlancond methods description? |
| 09:38.04 | felipec | kulve: yes, I'm trying that now with vorbis |
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| 09:39.00 | felipec | those numbers I just posted is by running 10min, so the accuracy is +-6mA, and I did run a few times, and they seemed to match, but not in a controlled way |
| 09:39.57 | trumee | felipec: how can i use ffvorbis on N900? |
| 09:40.18 | trumee | felipec: i am presently using Mediabox which uses libvorbis i think. |
| 09:40.42 | felipec | trumee: does mediabox use GStreamer? |
| 09:41.02 | trumee | felipec: yes it does. but presently i am using mplayer backend with it. |
| 09:41.14 | felipec | kulve: at least the mp3 measurement seems to match yours: 18.3 hours |
| 09:42.03 | felipec | trumee: mplayer uses ffmpeg as a backend, so it's only a matter of compiling ffmpeg with vorbis support |
| 09:42.13 | trumee | felipec: Media Player (mafw?) takes too much cpu power. Mediabox (With mplayer) uses considerable less. |
| 09:42.36 | trumee | felipec: is there any compiled binary which i can use? |
| 09:43.00 | felipec | trumee: yes, that mostly GStreamer's fault |
| 09:43.42 | felipec | trumee: although mafw can use different backends, so somebody could write an mplayer backend |
| 09:44.17 | felipec | trumee: I can give you binaries to try for Media Player, and it might help quite a bit, but still it cannot match mplayer |
| 09:45.14 | trumee | felipec: i am happy to use mplayer. are there any binaries for that? |
| 09:46.16 | felipec | trumee: no |
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| 09:46.48 | felipec | if you are happy with mplayer then you should suggest to the one packaging that stuff to use ffmpeg's vorbis, although my guess would be that they are already doing that |
| 09:46.49 | trumee | felipec: are you using mafw with ffvorbis? |
| 09:47.23 | felipec | trumee: yes, mafw -> gstreamer -> gst-av -> ffmpeg-vorbis |
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| 09:48.44 | trumee | felipec: "although my guess would be that they are already doing that", is there a way to find that out? |
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| 09:52.49 | felipec | trumee: ask the guys that package mplayer? |
| 09:53.24 | trumee | felipec: will do that that. can you please point where the binaries for gstreamer with ffvorbis are? |
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| 09:56.12 | dridk | Hi, I want to use gst-launch from gstreamer. What Do I need to install ? |
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| 09:57.07 | felipec | trumee: http://people.freedesktop.org/~felipec/maemo/ |
| 09:57.48 | felipec | trumee: copy libgstav.so and libgstogg.so to /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10, but that would conflict with ogg vorbis support (libgstogg.so) |
| 09:58.00 | felipec | dr34m: gstreamer0.10-tools |
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| 10:01.43 | trumee | felipec: so libgstogg.so should be overwritten. thanks for these. |
| 10:02.38 | felipec | trumee: they might not work, it depends if you have libavcodec |
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| 10:03.14 | trumee | felipec: cheers. i will check that. |
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| 10:05.48 | Zombie3 | SwedeMike: did you ever get IPv6 working? Found in a channel log that you had trouble with neighbour discovery, and I have the same... |
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| 10:08.18 | SwedeMike | Zombie3: it's working well now anyway.. a friend of mine had problems as well, they ended up faultfinding his NIC driver for multicast related problems |
| 10:08.22 | SwedeMike | oh |
| 10:08.25 | SwedeMike | bah, N900 |
| 10:08.36 | SwedeMike | Zombie3: no, I still don't have it working on my N900 on wifi |
| 10:08.42 | Zombie3 | yikes |
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| 10:09.02 | SwedeMike | Zombie3: we got it working on 2G/3G though. |
| 10:09.06 | Zombie3 | it's not even responding to ND |
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| 10:09.23 | Zombie3 | multicast eh... I can check if that works on IPv4 |
| 10:09.34 | SwedeMike | Zombie3: no, as far as I can see, the packets are somehow not ending up in the kernel for processing, at least no response can be seen |
| 10:09.49 | Zombie3 | that's what I see too |
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| 10:10.22 | SwedeMike | Zombie3: my initial response was regarding general ipv6 problems in linux, not N900 related |
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| 10:11.49 | Zombie3 | oic. I remember discovering DLNA DMS's, so multicast would have worked. That's before I installed the power kernel though |
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| 10:14.16 | Zombie3 | SwedeMike: it's odd that everybody seems to report that it works out of the box, and the two of us have trouble |
| 10:14.44 | SwedeMike | Zombie3: yeah. |
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| 10:15.27 | Zombie3 | tcpdump sees the RA |
| 10:17.05 | Zombie3 | and neighbour sollicications when I ping its LLA |
| 10:17.13 | Zombie3 | yet, no response |
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| 10:18.49 | Zombie3 | I compiled iproute2 for the n900, btw |
| 10:22.12 | Corsac_ | Zombie3: it's in extra-devel |
| 10:22.23 | Corsac_ | I never bothered to make it go to testing though |
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| 10:25.06 | Zombie3 | Corsac: it's a must-have for any networking geek. It would be useful |
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| 10:44.04 | Shapeshifter | ruskie: Hey there. I'm a bit confused about how you packaged urxvt. I want to improve its handling on the n900, and for that I'd need to add some perl scripts. Usually they go into /usr/lib/urxvt/perl/ on a normal system, but it seems like you've put urxvt (the binary) into /opt/maemo/usr/bin/ but there is no /opt/maemo/usr/lib/urxvt, so where do the perl scripts go? |
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| 10:49.39 | alterego | Shapeshifter: /opt/maemo/usr/lib/urxvt is fine |
| 10:49.58 | alterego | If it doesn't exist just create it :P |
| 10:54.47 | Shapeshifter | alterego: mhhh. not yet working as I imagine it. :| I'm trying to do this: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/rxvt-unicode-hacking-800818/page2.html#post4013717 |
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| 10:57.06 | alterego | Maybe urxvt needs to be compiled with perl support or something? |
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| 10:58.11 | Meldiuz | hi |
| 10:58.51 | Shapeshifter | alterego: mhhh. yeah seems like ruskie didn't compile it with perl support. or at least it's not in the deps. |
| 10:59.11 | Shapeshifter | how sad. I assume there still isn't any other terminal than X-Terminal? |
| 10:59.48 | alterego | Well, I've not needed anything other than xterm so I've not really looked. |
| 11:00.22 | Shapeshifter | it's not even xterm. |
| 11:00.33 | alterego | I know |
| 11:00.43 | Meldiuz | Has anyone tried to install lighttpd on the n900? |
| 11:01.08 | Corsac | considering it's in extra-? I guess so |
| 11:01.16 | alterego | Heh |
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| 11:05.11 | Shapeshifter | w00t my scratchbox install still works. |
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| 11:10.23 | alterego | Heh# |
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| 11:20.47 | DocScrutinizer | just to let you know :-) http://wiki.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Hardware/N900/Installation |
| 11:22.10 | Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: what can FSO do, and what can't it do? Does it do GSM/3G? |
| 11:22.37 | DocScrutinizer | not yet |
| 11:22.50 | DocScrutinizer | this is just one week old I'd guess |
| 11:23.02 | Shapeshifter | ;) |
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| 11:31.33 | alterego | Hrm, an RC for the Qt SDK |
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| 11:40.20 | IcanCU | i want to make an application that will switch off 3g when the screen baclight times out |
| 11:40.31 | IcanCU | does such an app already exist? |
| 11:40.45 | DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: but FSO has a holistic approach, integrating ALL subsystems into a nice middleware (eventually, when finished). So no more eleventy different APIs for e.g. liblocation, WLAN mgmnt, phonecalls, mce blinkenlights, screendimming... |
| 11:40.49 | psycho_oreos | sorta, its called autodisconnect |
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| 11:41.58 | DocScrutinizer | IcanCU: although such an app is vastly useless |
| 11:42.13 | pigeon_ | is there a way to disable the power kernel and use the normal one without uninstalling it? |
| 11:42.29 | IcanCU | why would it be DocScrutinizer |
| 11:42.45 | DocScrutinizer | you usually do NOT want to "switch off 3G", as it's very expensive to switch on again, and almost for free to keep it established |
| 11:43.27 | IcanCU | expensive in terms of battery? |
| 11:43.38 | DocScrutinizer | you maybe want to tear down local routing, so no more outbound packets go to 3G |
| 11:43.47 | DocScrutinizer | yep, in terms of battery |
| 11:43.52 | IcanCU | ah i see |
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| 11:44.37 | DocScrutinizer | it's not 3G that sucks battery, it's actual data over 3G that does |
| 11:44.57 | kerio | yeah but having an open connection will lead to exchanged data |
| 11:45.12 | DocScrutinizer | of course if you got a criminal dataplan that's billed by time, you maybe want to do such thing nevertheless |
| 11:45.32 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: that depends on your local management of apps |
| 11:45.49 | kerio | the facebook widget will refresh once in a while |
| 11:46.06 | SwedeMike | what one wants to have is to have all apps sync so they communicate at the same time |
| 11:46.07 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: if you can't teach your apps to behave, then it's a stupid approach to tear down whole 3G instead |
| 11:46.21 | SwedeMike | once every five minutes, wake up the 3G from idle and do their things, then go down in idle again. |
| 11:46.44 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: it shouldn't. It only should do this when screen unblanked, and facebook applet visible |
| 11:46.57 | kerio | oh, makes sense |
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| 11:48.22 | DocScrutinizer | generally you can't fix a broken-by-design app by changing the way connectivity works. At least not when you take such a brute-force approach |
| 11:49.55 | DocScrutinizer | if facebook app actually does behave like that, it never must go into extras, it needs downvote for that |
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| 11:52.03 | alterego | So quiet today. |
| 11:52.11 | alterego | Probably because the weather is so very nice outside :) |
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| 12:27.48 | PontusOhman | Anyone tried dual sim with success? |
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| 12:32.45 | lcuk | PontusOhman, hmm |
| 12:32.51 | lcuk | do dual sims even fit? |
| 12:33.12 | kerio | if you shove them in, sure |
| 12:33.13 | BluesLee | hey |
| 12:33.23 | BluesLee | i bought one yesterday |
| 12:34.02 | kerio | i bet you can fit like 7 |
| 12:34.02 | BluesLee | lcuk: this one for the beloved iphone fits perfectly http://www.eurodualsim.com/site/ |
| 12:34.19 | BluesLee | lcuk: its a no cut version |
| 12:34.50 | BluesLee | the second sim sits between the battery and the cover |
| 12:34.53 | lcuk | then try it and see |
| 12:35.08 | SpeedEvil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/nokia-N900-FAULTY-/130430754963?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhones&hash=item1e5e476093 Oops. |
| 12:35.11 | SpeedEvil | (not mine) |
| 12:35.13 | PontusOhman | Yeah, but I want to check if there will be a menu to use for it :) |
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| 12:35.46 | BluesLee | PontusOhman: there is no stk menu |
| 12:35.57 | kerio | SpeedEvil: awesome |
| 12:36.00 | PontusOhman | BluesLee: Okey =/ |
| 12:36.15 | BluesLee | PontusOhman: you should use an older phone which has an stk menu |
| 12:36.28 | BluesLee | PontusOhman: then you activate 007 mode |
| 12:36.49 | BluesLee | PontusOhman: an then you should switch between the sims with 001+call resp 002.call |
| 12:37.34 | BluesLee | PontusOhman: unfortunately, it does not work:-) |
| 12:37.59 | BluesLee | PontusOhman: i may post a thread on talk with screenshots |
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| 12:40.12 | lcuk | the lovely yellow hildon banners |
| 12:40.17 | lcuk | should be tintable |
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| 12:40.30 | lcuk | when a process goes well, they should be tinted green |
| 12:40.38 | lcuk | and when its an error banner it should be tined red |
| 12:41.01 | trumee | BluesLee: what do you mean it does not work? |
| 12:41.03 | lcuk | seeing yellow all hte time means you have to read the banner itself to understand its contents - even if you were expecting it |
| 12:41.22 | lcuk | (and apps have the worst way of describing things) |
| 12:42.07 | trumee | BluesLee: You are not able to use the adaptor as it is intended? |
| 12:44.06 | BluesLee | trumee: right |
| 12:44.21 | Khertan_Home | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:44.24 | BluesLee | trumee: it works with stk mode in other mobiles |
| 12:45.05 | trumee | BluesLee: i am not interested in other mobile. So the verdict is it is useless for N900. No dual sim support. :( |
| 12:45.18 | BluesLee | trumee: in 007 mode (=using code+call) it generates powercycles |
| 12:45.30 | BluesLee | trumee: this holds only for the version i mentioned |
| 12:45.37 | trumee | BluesLee: you mean it reboots the phone? |
| 12:46.07 | BluesLee | trumee: no, it "reboots" the sim |
| 12:46.12 | kerio | i bet cellmo won't like that anyway |
| 12:46.18 | trumee | BluesLee: ah, i see. |
| 12:46.39 | BluesLee | trumee: it asks for your pin every 30 s |
| 12:47.18 | BluesLee | there are cut versions which work |
| 12:47.25 | trumee | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=770311&postcount=12 this guys post suggests it works |
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| 12:59.27 | trumee | how can i refresh hal in N900? |
| 13:02.52 | trumee | <PROTECTED> |
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| 13:03.53 | Chibi-Taiga | hey guys whats this wget ? |
| 13:04.36 | SpeedEvil | wget is a command line tool to get web and other files |
| 13:04.58 | Chibi-Taiga | http://jdownloader.org/download/index |
| 13:05.02 | Chibi-Taiga | i wanna install this |
| 13:05.23 | Chibi-Taiga | but i need wget probaly |
| 13:05.25 | Chibi-Taiga | for n900 |
| 13:05.41 | SpeedEvil | Well - ask them for a n900 version |
| 13:05.46 | FauxFaux | Getting Java to work isn't amazingly trivial, so that's probably not a great idea. |
| 13:05.48 | lcuk | hmm oauth fails if you open 2 auth requests from different apps o_O |
| 13:05.50 | SpeedEvil | Oh |
| 13:05.54 | lcuk | potentially |
| 13:05.54 | SpeedEvil | No java |
| 13:06.00 | SpeedEvil | so find another downloader |
| 13:06.01 | FauxFaux | There is Java. |
| 13:06.05 | SpeedEvil | It's not like there is a shortage |
| 13:06.14 | FauxFaux | But Chibi obviously not has the slightest idea what it's doing. |
| 13:06.33 | Chibi-Taiga | jdownloader is an java application |
| 13:07.10 | Chibi-Taiga | its pretty neat for downloading from links |
| 13:07.14 | Chibi-Taiga | and dlc |
| 13:09.35 | lcuk | Khertan_Home, just because I have my keyboard closed does not mean I need to be in portrait mode :$ |
| 13:09.50 | lcuk | often wiggles keyboard in/out |
| 13:12.33 | *** join/#maemo tgalal (~quassel@41.91.15.188) |
| 13:13.25 | tgalal | hey my N900 absolutely stop scanning for new media. This includes new pictures by the camera, music, videos, everything.. Any idea what's wrong ? |
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| 13:14.03 | SpeedEvil | Tracker database is possibly corrupt |
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| 13:16.44 | SpeedEvil | Blow away /home/user/.cache/tracker/file* |
| 13:16.56 | SpeedEvil | you may want to back them up first, just in case |
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| 13:32.55 | Noobmonk3y | waves |
| 13:33.36 | Noobmonk3y | has anyone else been suffering from the nokia messaging pain in the ass - where it keeps on asking for the password? been happenning for about 5 days now |
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| 13:35.16 | tgalal | SpeedEvil: removed it, restarted the phone, and it did query for new media. However, only 20 songs of about 400 were found! And same pictures showed up again, didn't get the new ones too.. |
| 13:40.23 | FireFly | Hm.. what was the name of the file that runs on USB mass storage connection & disconnection? |
| 13:40.32 | FireFly | s/file/shell script/ |
| 13:40.43 | FireFly | Err, yes, I did |
| 13:42.05 | SpeedEvil | tgalal: you know that if you plug in USB and select mass storage - that the media on it is inaccessible? |
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| 13:46.10 | tgalal | SpeedEvil: it is accesible normally via mass storage |
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| 13:50.29 | tgalal | SpeedEvil: is there a way I could track the process of creating the databases so I'd know where it gets stuck |
| 13:52.06 | SpeedEvil | umm |
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| 13:53.25 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:53.34 | SpeedEvil | also - installing syslogd |
| 13:57.07 | tgalal | SpeedEvil: i changed the verbosity to debug. Where does it show up? |
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| 14:04.57 | SpeedEvil | syslog I think |
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| 14:11.21 | DocScrutinizer | (/home/user/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg) you can nice trackerd there, strongly recommended |
| 14:11.43 | RST38h | Doc: Here? |
| 14:13.12 | DocScrutinizer | # Sets the indexing speed (0->20, where 20=slowest speed) |
| 14:13.13 | DocScrutinizer | #Throttle=0 |
| 14:13.15 | DocScrutinizer | Throttle=10 |
| 14:13.35 | DocScrutinizer | actually means niceness of tracked process |
| 14:13.52 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: wazzup? |
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| 14:20.13 | trumee | Anybody used two sixaxis controllers at the same time? |
| 14:20.20 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: ?? |
| 14:20.34 | RST38h | Doc: Back to out chat about swap fragmentation |
| 14:20.50 | DocScrutinizer | aah |
| 14:20.53 | RST38h | Doc: I have been looking for a Linux utility that would defragment swap in place |
| 14:20.58 | trumee | If both are used together N900 loses its touchscreen functionality. |
| 14:21.04 | RST38h | Doc: Which seems logical, even for HDs |
| 14:21.13 | DocScrutinizer | yo |
| 14:21.25 | DocScrutinizer | guess there's no such thing though |
| 14:21.28 | RST38h | Doc: Have not found any. What I found though is even curioser |
| 14:21.32 | trumee | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=814133#post814133 heres partly my solution. |
| 14:21.49 | RST38h | Doc: http://lwn.net/Articles/334649/ |
| 14:21.52 | RST38h | Doc: Enjoy |
| 14:22.06 | RST38h | Doc: And if you feel like trying it, please do |
| 14:22.23 | DocScrutinizer | I think somebody did already |
| 14:22.28 | RST38h | URL? |
| 14:22.30 | trumee | Crap, dont know its bash3 fault, but if i do a 'wq' or 'x' in vi as root, it freezes the xterm |
| 14:22.41 | DocScrutinizer | some few days ago, along with crypto |
| 14:22.51 | trumee | although 'q' works ok. |
| 14:23.10 | RST38h | Ah: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32105 |
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| 14:24.37 | SpeedEvil | http://pastebin.ca/1938872 RST38h - on defragging swap |
| 14:24.40 | SpeedEvil | ell - not fragging |
| 14:24.46 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-09-07.log.html#t2010-09-07T20:42:55 |
| 14:24.49 | SpeedEvil | an email tro a mailing list that's not gone through |
| 14:25.29 | RST38h | Speed: Too complicated, won't ever be implemented, need a ready-made solution =( |
| 14:26.06 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: rsp http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=compcache |
| 14:26.07 | SpeedEvil | it's a few dozens of lines of C to implement a simple nbd client |
| 14:27.09 | RST38h | wonders how plain compcache will fare on the N900, with the disk swap off |
| 14:27.09 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~Fernando@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 14:28.26 | RST38h | Doc: Ironically, the search result mostly contains questions like mine, we it does look like we have to hunt down and interrogate tobis87 =) |
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| 14:30.09 | jedlhl | hi all, it is possible to get the very latest meego env (i.e. daily trunk builds) for n900's nowadays isn't it? |
| 14:30.18 | jedlhl | One just has to be prepared to build an img from that daily trunk right? |
| 14:31.05 | DocScrutinizer | jedlhl: /join #meego-arm |
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| 14:32.16 | jedlhl | thanks im in meego atm but i'll also try meego-arm |
| 14:32.17 | Jaffa | jedlhl: Weekly, AIUI. But last week's wasn't buildable. |
| 14:33.02 | jedlhl | yeah apparently: some exceptions if they updated closed blobs (published weekly) but usually latest weeklys work |
| 14:33.45 | Jaffa | saw you ask it on #meego and Stskeeps' reply |
| 14:33.49 | Jaffa | goes to bastardise a USB cable. |
| 14:34.07 | jedlhl | yeah noticed, my bad |
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| 14:41.12 | BluesLee | can i call a chosen contact which is saved on my sim memory via dbus? |
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| 14:53.22 | alterego | QMaemo5ListPickSelector is quite a crappy class really .. |
| 14:55.05 | lcuk | alterego, propose a better one |
| 14:55.22 | alterego | Actually, looking at it it goes deeper. |
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| 14:57.29 | alterego | I wish C++ had closures |
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| 15:27.13 | alterego | ponrders on what to have for dinner. |
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| 15:28.05 | Noobmonk3y | is going out for dinner, yay! no pondering needed.... |
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| 15:28.11 | Noobmonk3y | ponders what to wear.... darnnit |
| 15:30.46 | alterego | Well, until you get there :P |
| 15:31.07 | alterego | Then you'll have to choose from a menu obviously :P |
| 15:31.55 | Noobmonk3y | lol :P |
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| 15:33.02 | lcuk | hey Noobmonk3y |
| 15:33.06 | Noobmonk3y | hey hey luck :) |
| 15:33.11 | lcuk | did you break the transitions on my machine |
| 15:33.22 | Noobmonk3y | Nope, not for lack of trying, but nope lol |
| 15:33.27 | lcuk | :D |
| 15:33.28 | Noobmonk3y | i'm multitasking :P wooohooo go me! |
| 15:33.29 | lcuk | heh |
| 15:33.32 | alterego | Think I'll have some toast and then maybe order a pizza later. |
| 15:33.55 | Noobmonk3y | Playing with Nitdroid - v impressed, whilst configuring exchange in a vmware environment :) |
| 15:33.57 | alterego | My gf has gone away for a week, so I can take this opportunity to chill out have a few beers and do some coding ^.^ |
| 15:34.12 | lcuk | alterego, just throw some cheese and tomato and misc fridge fodder onto some toast |
| 15:34.21 | Noobmonk3y | lcuk, remember how annoyed i was about lack of ide's and pyqt programming.... |
| 15:34.24 | lcuk | made pizza last night |
| 15:34.34 | Noobmonk3y | Managed to get a simple app working on nitdroid in under an hour, meh....... |
| 15:34.36 | lcuk | potentially |
| 15:35.01 | lcuk | yes its easy to get simple apps working |
| 15:35.07 | Noobmonk3y | well not on maemo :P |
| 15:35.10 | alterego | lcuk: I would, but I have literally nothing in the fridge, we cleaned it out last night before she left. |
| 15:35.11 | Noobmonk3y | hehe |
| 15:35.29 | alterego | Well, everything except a little pasta sauce. |
| 15:35.31 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 15:35.37 | alterego | So I could use that, BBQ :) |
| 15:36.37 | lcuk | Noobmonk3y, can you develop android apps on the android device? |
| 15:36.45 | lcuk | like you pretty much did with healthcheck? |
| 15:36.55 | Noobmonk3y | ahhh good point, probably not, but wouldnt be doing that most of the time :P |
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| 15:37.14 | Noobmonk3y | lcuk, i only did it a bit on h/c - mainly as i had no pc, but realistically was too cumbersome, allthough good that i could |
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| 15:37.45 | lcuk | Noobmonk3y, for python, if there was a nice simple ide that talked it would work well |
| 15:37.58 | Noobmonk3y | yup i agree entirely :) |
| 15:38.07 | Noobmonk3y | eclipse is getting there with python, just not quite there yet |
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| 15:38.19 | lcuk | eclipse is like some monster itself |
| 15:38.24 | Noobmonk3y | yeah hehe |
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| 15:38.33 | lcuk | it hardly comes into the simple category |
| 15:38.53 | Noobmonk3y | but one thing an ide does dtart doing - is standardising in a way, it means people can visually see and adapt quickly, might be a monster, but does help quick development |
| 15:39.06 | Noobmonk3y | after the year of configuring it :P |
| 15:39.09 | lcuk | exclipse, picking up where the emacs as OS left off |
| 15:39.24 | Noobmonk3y | haha |
| 15:39.33 | lcuk | -x |
| 15:43.03 | Corsac | as if emacs had left of :/ |
| 15:43.06 | Corsac | s/of// |
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| 16:09.47 | lcuk | Noobmonk3y, so are you pushing your hardco errr H/C to different platform then |
| 16:10.00 | *** join/#maemo dmb (~dmb@unaffiliated/dmb) |
| 16:10.03 | Noobmonk3y | naaaaaa, was just testing the waters :P - staying with mameo :P |
| 16:12.19 | lcuk | thought your app ran on maemo, what is this mameo you speak of :p |
| 16:13.02 | Adeon | mameo must be the new secret nokia mobile OS that can brew coffee |
| 16:13.53 | lcuk | mobile coffee brewing is so old hat |
| 16:14.02 | lcuk | the next generation mobiles will run on fuelcells |
| 16:14.07 | lcuk | and can share vodka with you |
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| 16:22.17 | Noobmonk3y | lol |
| 16:25.20 | Chibi-Taiga | since n900 is a linux based phone does it support wine ? |
| 16:25.28 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 16:25.35 | SpeedEvil | Wine is not an emulator. |
| 16:25.36 | sheepbat | that would require an x86 CPU |
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| 16:25.46 | Chibi-Taiga | i see |
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| 16:27.59 | *** join/#maemo dvoid (~dvoid@h230n4-sde-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 16:28.30 | kerio | qemu! |
| 16:29.14 | *** join/#maemo Venemo_N900 (~communi@netacc-gpn-4-29-73.pool.telenor.hu) |
| 16:29.59 | Venemo_N900 | Hi Maemo people |
| 16:31.01 | *** join/#maemo SWFu_ (~SWFu@88-110-205-137.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 16:35.00 | *** join/#maemo Xaphania (Shiva@a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.iiiii.info) |
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| 16:39.32 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: bochs + win NT |
| 16:39.36 | kerio | heh |
| 16:39.39 | kerio | how about NO |
| 16:41.06 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 16:41.48 | *** join/#maemo jacktheripper (~George@196.221.189.109) |
| 16:42.52 | DocScrutinizer | bacon nfused vodka |
| 16:43.08 | kerio | i want qemu |
| 16:43.15 | DocScrutinizer | infused (darn, need to boot and vacuum my kbd) |
| 16:44.04 | *** join/#maemo Dhraak[n900] (~ntryon@cpe-67-240-248-41.rochester.res.rr.com) |
| 16:44.26 | kerio | your kbd has an OS? |
| 16:44.29 | kerio | yeah, you better turn it on |
| 16:45.03 | DocScrutinizer | cons of a laptop: low profile keyboard (no space for bread crumbs), and can't unplug kbd to clean with vacuum |
| 16:45.59 | lcuk | turn upside down and bash repeatedly |
| 16:46.28 | lcuk | scoop crumbs into a pile and nibble for the rest of the afternoon |
| 16:46.36 | kerio | lol |
| 16:46.49 | DocScrutinizer | doesn't help as gap between keys is too small so crumbs will only come out when pressing keys to open up sufficient gap |
| 16:47.07 | kerio | i have a gap between keys :D |
| 16:47.10 | *** join/#maemo andrei1089 (~andrei108@81.18.92.10) |
| 16:48.03 | DocScrutinizer | even then crumbs will stay where they are: inside key caps |
| 16:48.24 | Venemo_N900 | Advantage of N900 keyboard: the gap between keys is too small for any dirt to get in there |
| 16:48.30 | Venemo_N900 | but lcuk, that was lol |
| 16:49.35 | lcuk | the n810 keyboard was crumbsafe |
| 16:49.48 | lcuk | but the 810 and 900 have a different issue |
| 16:49.52 | lcuk | sand in the slider! |
| 16:50.00 | DocScrutinizer | eeeeeek |
| 16:50.01 | lcuk | it makes a god awful noise when you get it |
| 16:50.31 | Venemo_N900 | I finally saw an N810 live on the mobile linux applications course, and it looked very good |
| 16:50.36 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, actually N900 is anti-ruggedized |
| 16:50.45 | shadeslayer | any ideas if nokia will release a N900 with a capacitive screen? |
| 16:50.51 | kerio | shadeslayer: go away |
| 16:50.59 | shadeslayer | kerio: :P |
| 16:50.59 | Venemo_N900 | actually, I would prefer an N900 with the N810's colors and design |
| 16:50.59 | DocScrutinizer | no way |
| 16:51.11 | shadeslayer | why? |
| 16:51.20 | shadeslayer | arent capacitive screens the norm now? |
| 16:51.35 | kerio | for dickphones |
| 16:51.44 | DocScrutinizer | fsck crappy c-ts. No stylus, no resolution |
| 16:51.45 | Venemo_N900 | shadeslayer: capactive screens are crap |
| 16:52.03 | shadeslayer | why? |
| 16:52.17 | kerio | *serious* lack of precision |
| 16:52.19 | lcuk | like a good cake: |
| 16:52.21 | kerio | i mean, it's ridiculous |
| 16:52.27 | Venemo_N900 | shadeslayer: because they are inaccurate and unusable with anything but bare fingers |
| 16:52.29 | lcuk | single layer capacitive screens are good, but dual layered mixed mode are better. |
| 16:53.10 | shadeslayer | oic |
| 16:54.16 | Venemo_N900 | resistive ones are better IMO |
| 16:54.54 | DocScrutinizer | <3 n900 r-ts |
| 16:55.22 | Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: "r-ts" = ? |
| 16:55.34 | DocScrutinizer | resistive touch-screen? |
| 16:55.54 | Venemo_N900 | K |
| 16:56.18 | shadeslayer | i really do want a n900... just cant afford it right now :P |
| 16:56.42 | shadeslayer | also... is there a SDK or developer channel for maemo ? |
| 16:56.59 | Venemo_N900 | shadeslayer: wait for the next model, then the N900's price will sink down |
| 16:57.03 | *** join/#maemo rodarvus_ (~rodarvus@189.26.132.213.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 16:57.15 | DocScrutinizer | I honestly doubt that |
| 16:57.18 | Venemo_N900 | shadeslayer: yes, #maemo-devel and #qt-maemo |
| 16:57.21 | shadeslayer | Venemo_N900: next model of N900? haha :P |
| 16:58.17 | Venemo_N900 | shadeslayer: next model will be called N9 afaik |
| 16:58.26 | DocScrutinizer | most probably next device is crap by spec. like c-ts, no hw-kbd and whatnot |
| 16:58.26 | shadeslayer | oic |
| 16:58.51 | DocScrutinizer | or it's N9 |
| 16:59.11 | Venemo_N900 | Well, noone knows for sure |
| 16:59.20 | DocScrutinizer | anyway don't hold your breath for considerably lower prices of N900 |
| 16:59.38 | Dhraak[n900] | lcuk: so you can do multitouch ungloved but still use the stylu for precision or cold weather? |
| 16:59.41 | DocScrutinizer | N810 still is ~240EUR |
| 16:59.56 | lcuk | Dhraak[n900], yes |
| 17:00.02 | lcuk | i write a lot |
| 17:00.14 | lcuk | and its impossible with a frozen sausage |
| 17:00.26 | DocScrutinizer | you can do mt on r-ts! |
| 17:00.43 | shadeslayer | Venemo_N900: http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n9-3398.php << OS : Symbian^3 .. lol |
| 17:00.58 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, sure |
| 17:01.03 | lcuk | i showed it on my 810 |
| 17:01.25 | lcuk | and its an embedded standard part of liqbase :P |
| 17:01.25 | Dhraak[n900] | I got my n900 off ebay last month for $354 or so with all retail-box accessories and several screen protectors |
| 17:01.41 | shadeslayer | looks sweet |
| 17:01.44 | DocScrutinizer | I guess that's fake mt though, as neither N810 nor N900 have the hw for true mt |
| 17:01.49 | shadeslayer | specially the screen tilting |
| 17:01.58 | Venemo_N900 | shadeslayer: not announced yet officially, so as I said, noone knows |
| 17:02.12 | shadeslayer | Venemo_N900: ok... |
| 17:02.20 | Dhraak[n900] | fake mt? |
| 17:02.33 | lcuk | Dhraak[n900], sure |
| 17:02.41 | Dhraak[n900] | how's that work? |
| 17:02.49 | lcuk | on the n800 |
| 17:02.50 | lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJWvvn_cePM |
| 17:02.53 | lcuk | see for yourself |
| 17:02.58 | lcuk | install liqbase on it |
| 17:03.03 | lcuk | try it out even :P |
| 17:03.14 | Dhraak[n900] | I know my laptop's touchpad can emulate multifinger taps |
| 17:04.17 | DocScrutinizer | on fake mt the driver will detect 2 touchpoints as one touchpoint that moves very fast to a new pos, and increases area/pressure |
| 17:04.20 | lcuk | (oh, your n900 still doesn't have complete liqbase rebuild |
| 17:04.21 | Dhraak[n900] | needs to actually look into changing default apps |
| 17:04.28 | lcuk | hmmms and ponders releasing it again |
| 17:05.16 | Dhraak[n900] | had to cp/paste that url into fennec |
| 17:05.20 | DocScrutinizer | so basically what fake mt does is gesture recog rather than true mt |
| 17:05.50 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, it has finger recognisers and works out when you break the laws of physics |
| 17:06.06 | DocScrutinizer | ok, fair enough |
| 17:06.11 | lcuk | so that "oh look, you couldnt have possibly moved that far in one step, its a second finger" |
| 17:06.15 | Dhraak[n900] | ...and, evil as it may be, perhaps get flash working in fennec |
| 17:09.19 | *** join/#maemo DangerMaus (~eeeeeeeee@tuxhacker/loft306) |
| 17:10.05 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: true mt on r-ts works with such simple methods like probing current flowing thru the gradient plane. or - even better - on true 5 wire r-ts you get mt basically for free |
| 17:12.09 | DocScrutinizer | though you can do a "sequential fake 5 wire" on a genuine 4 wire r-ts, if your driver hw isn't too braindamaged |
| 17:12.32 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, with 5 wire you cannot do pixel by pixel MT addressing |
| 17:12.38 | *** join/#maemo Dhraak[n900] (~ntryon@cpe-67-240-248-41.rochester.res.rr.com) |
| 17:13.14 | lcuk | you need to implement the sort of 4 element per pixel thing that the statum device uses |
| 17:13.14 | Dhraak[n900] | could I get that mt youtube link again? |
| 17:13.23 | DocScrutinizer | I guess there's not a single technology for ts that does MT on a pixel resolution |
| 17:13.29 | lcuk | <lcuk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJWvvn_cePM |
| 17:13.40 | Dhraak[n900] | thanks |
| 17:14.15 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, Stantum MT resistive http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv3X5y-ajtc |
| 17:14.19 | Dhraak[n900] | burned some battery on a reboot |
| 17:14.48 | DocScrutinizer | yeah those buggers stolen my ideas :-P |
| 17:15.07 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: SAW will. |
| 17:15.11 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, homemade LED arrays |
| 17:15.16 | lcuk | can do output and per pixel input |
| 17:15.34 | lcuk | by measuing the current drop as the LED absorbs some of the reflected light from neighbours |
| 17:16.36 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 17:16.54 | lcuk | LED array with touch input: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2v4-QvGuU |
| 17:17.36 | Dhraak[n900] | wonders how hard it'd be to change the okuda theme to TNG LCARS colors |
| 17:19.49 | crashanddie | ok, my gmail account has been sending massive amounts of spam |
| 17:19.51 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: optical touchscreens largely incapable to work with stylus |
| 17:19.55 | crashanddie | steps to figure it out? |
| 17:20.05 | lcuk | sure |
| 17:20.09 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: yep, saw is a nice technology |
| 17:20.20 | lcuk | is just showing there is a lot of thought already gone into this and similar fields |
| 17:20.34 | lcuk | crashanddie, "sending"? |
| 17:20.43 | lcuk | I once got joejobbed |
| 17:20.53 | lcuk | and had ~20k bounces in a day |
| 17:20.57 | crashanddie | lcuk: I have about 300 emails in my "sent" directory |
| 17:21.00 | crashanddie | with about 100 bounces |
| 17:21.05 | lcuk | then stop sending them |
| 17:21.10 | crashanddie | well, I didn't |
| 17:21.17 | crashanddie | it's a phishing email for World of Warcraft |
| 17:21.21 | lcuk | or look on the bottom of the screen for the ip addresses of people connected |
| 17:21.43 | crashanddie | yeah, nothing |
| 17:21.47 | lcuk | you still play wow :P |
| 17:21.53 | crashanddie | nope |
| 17:22.02 | crashanddie | I've never played with that account |
| 17:22.24 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I gather Stantum is 5wire r-ts |
| 17:22.31 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, no |
| 17:22.38 | lcuk | you cant do that with only 5 wires |
| 17:23.02 | DocScrutinizer | uh, so what else? |
| 17:23.14 | DocScrutinizer | 'multi-wire'? |
| 17:23.32 | lcuk | its the only feasible way for true mt |
| 17:23.38 | lcuk | you saw the video |
| 17:23.42 | lcuk | there has to be a grid |
| 17:24.26 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, for 4touch, yes possibly amount of generic data from 5wire is too low |
| 17:25.08 | crashanddie | Thing is, my computer has been off all day |
| 17:25.13 | crashanddie | and it's been sending spam all afternoon |
| 17:25.22 | crashanddie | I've changed the password, crap. |
| 17:25.35 | DocScrutinizer | so you add points all over the sensing plane area, not only probing the 4 corners |
| 17:26.37 | pronto | where does the n900 keep recorded videos |
| 17:26.41 | DocScrutinizer | as long as there are no more tha 2 touchpoints inside area of the square built by 4 sensing points, you're fine |
| 17:29.21 | DocScrutinizer | pronto: either on uSD, or on /home/user/MyDocs/DCIM |
| 17:30.32 | RST38h | back |
| 17:32.06 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
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| 17:37.45 | Dhraak[n900] | wonders how best to (and whether he wants to) get flash in fennec |
| 17:38.25 | *** join/#maemo ritz (~ritz@114.143.54.204) |
| 17:38.26 | Dhraak[n900] | think I'll leave that taint isolated in microB |
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| 17:41.08 | Chibi-Taiga | is there something like emule for n900 ? |
| 17:42.22 | Shapeshifter | good grief HAM is a disgrace. |
| 17:42.26 | Shapeshifter | ._. |
| 17:43.17 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-121-123-130.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 17:43.49 | Dhraak[n900] | HAM? |
| 17:44.17 | Shapeshifter | harmattan fuckin' application manager |
| 17:44.34 | Dhraak[n900] | ah |
| 17:45.20 | lcuk | Shapeshifter, err |
| 17:45.27 | lcuk | "hildon application manager"? |
| 17:45.33 | Shapeshifter | oops |
| 17:45.34 | lcuk | and disable -devel and -testing |
| 17:45.34 | Shapeshifter | indeed |
| 17:45.41 | Shapeshifter | lcuk: and end up with what? |
| 17:45.42 | lcuk | and push devs to get their apps in shape without needing them |
| 17:46.14 | Shapeshifter | lcuk: are you suggesting that it's reasonable that HAM can only cope with a limited, small number of applications? |
| 17:46.16 | lcuk | you are trying to load in every version of every app developed and constantly refreshing them |
| 17:46.21 | frals | lcuk: well, they kinda need to pass -devel and -testing to get to extras.. :p |
| 17:46.27 | lcuk | frals, sure |
| 17:46.37 | frals | hence people need them active ;-) |
| 17:46.55 | lcuk | I would rather find an alternative :P |
| 17:47.03 | lcuk | and they only need -testing to be fair |
| 17:47.05 | Shapeshifter | lcuk: I usually don't make this lame comparison, but look at the iphone... or android. people browsing applications don't want to wait 3 minutes for the index to load. and there really aren't many applications for the N900, even including -testing and -devel. |
| 17:47.19 | Shapeshifter | it's an overviewable list you can even browse through by hand in about 15 minutes |
| 17:47.35 | Shapeshifter | it's simply a disgrace. |
| 17:47.38 | lcuk | Shapeshifter, download assistance works on the web in a similar manner to those other devices |
| 17:48.09 | lcuk | and Shapeshifter the guy who wrote fapman tried it |
| 17:48.20 | lcuk | so you grab that |
| 17:49.24 | RST38h | fapman is alsoslowupdatingindices |
| 17:49.38 | lcuk | indeed |
| 17:49.43 | RST38h | May I once again suggest reanimating PackRat? |
| 17:49.46 | lcuk | latest version is slower than other |
| 17:49.54 | Shapeshifter | lcuk: so you disagree that the whole package management through app with the inane HAM as its frontend is a horrible solution for the n900? |
| 17:50.06 | Shapeshifter | lcuk: you can't be seriously suggesting that HAM is "good" |
| 17:50.07 | RST38h | Because it will do exactly what you all want - fast server-side package browsing |
| 17:50.18 | *** join/#maemo VenemoN900 (~communi@netacc-gpn-4-166-74.pool.telenor.hu) |
| 17:50.20 | lcuk | Shapeshifter, i think there is no viable alternative solution at this point |
| 17:50.29 | RST38h | lcuk: There is |
| 17:50.29 | VenemoN900 | Hey again |
| 17:50.33 | lcuk | but with some work, some others may present themselves |
| 17:51.20 | RST38h | lcuk: Open this in MicroB on your tablet: http://ageofikon.info/packrat/ |
| 17:51.23 | lcuk | RST38h, server side in what regard |
| 17:52.09 | RST38h | lcuk: Check the url |
| 17:52.33 | lcuk | i am |
| 17:52.36 | RST38h | lcuk: You can browse one or more repositories this way, installing stuff by clicking on install |
| 17:52.54 | Shapeshifter | RST38h: did you make this? |
| 17:52.55 | Plektra | ohoi |
| 17:52.57 | RST38h | lcuk: It works instantly (the app lists being kept at the server) and roughly corresponds to Ovi |
| 17:53.02 | lcuk | but that still has its issues |
| 17:53.02 | RST38h | Shapeshifter: yes |
| 17:53.16 | VenemoN900 | Hm... what is the file that contains the repositories' data? |
| 17:53.19 | RST38h | lcuk: Of course it does. A few you will have to live with, others can be fixed trivially |
| 17:53.23 | Shapeshifter | RST38h: I'm probably stupid but I cannot see how to "browse" and not search this... |
| 17:53.37 | RST38h | Shapeshifter: That is one thing that has to be fixed |
| 17:53.38 | lcuk | RST38h, the main one being the "apt-get update" and huge local package lists |
| 17:53.49 | lcuk | which is exactly the same as fapman |
| 17:53.55 | RST38h | Shapeshifter: A separate page has to be added to browse by category |
| 17:54.31 | RST38h | lcuk: well, you can serve a package directly in .deb form via http |
| 17:54.41 | lcuk | dependencies |
| 17:55.19 | RST38h | lcuk: create a personalized repo where the web site loads user's packages |
| 17:55.23 | Shapeshifter | lcuk: what about them. you can pull those as well. |
| 17:55.25 | RST38h | and their dependencies |
| 17:55.30 | trumee | is there any software on N900 which allows to rate music. |
| 17:55.33 | lcuk | and you are at the PPA stage |
| 17:55.35 | lcuk | :) |
| 17:55.49 | trumee | I want a way to rate music and then generate playlist of rated music. |
| 17:55.55 | *** join/#maemo mardi (~mardi@81.2.94.41) |
| 17:57.27 | lcuk | RST38h, for normal humans and path of least resistence - pushing as many apps onto extras itself is a benefit |
| 17:57.56 | lcuk | because then the need to use -devel by default can be sidestepped as much as possible |
| 17:58.05 | RST38h | lcuk: obviously, powers that set extras promotion policies are not normal humans |
| 17:58.25 | Xaphania | HellOlAloHallOhayo.. I HI.. |
| 17:58.25 | RST38h | lcuk: Most normal humans have understood this by now and simply enabled -testing and -devel |
| 17:58.35 | lcuk | RST38h, no |
| 17:58.43 | RST38h | yes, lcuk, unfortunately |
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| 18:00.47 | trumee | hmm. amarok has that feature but have never used it. |
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| 18:27.52 | ponyofdeath | hi, when i select usb mode my linux does only see my emc as sdb and not my mmc memory card does not seem to be exported anyone know why? |
| 18:28.56 | lcuk | heh nice, SHR on n900, open embedded variant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywkWbb_BetI looks fast and has lots of compatability with existing things (shows numpty working :D) |
| 18:29.15 | lcuk | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62152 thread on it |
| 18:30.02 | *** join/#maemo lsm5 (~lsm5@potential.cse.Buffalo.EDU) |
| 18:31.41 | ShadowJK | ponyofdeath, there's probably something running on the N900 that's using the emmc |
| 18:32.07 | ponyofdeath | ShadowJK: ahh let me check i think i installed lsof |
| 18:33.22 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (mh@178.160.90.59) |
| 18:33.29 | ponyofdeath | ShadowJK: does not look like it |
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| 18:34.16 | ShadowJK | lsof | grep MyDocs ? |
| 18:35.02 | ponyofdeath | ShadowJK: well no this is for /media/mmc1 |
| 18:35.13 | ponyofdeath | Mydocs shows up as sdb |
| 18:35.31 | ShadowJK | oh it was the reverse of what i thought it read |
| 18:35.35 | ponyofdeath | ShadowJK: but my addon sd card does not |
| 18:36.10 | ponyofdeath | ShadowJK: yeah not sure if it needs an separate usb module to get detected or what |
| 18:36.11 | Funnyface | lcuk: well, those openmoko devices are said to be really slow (haven't tested any myself) so no wonder those things will run well on the N900 :>! |
| 18:36.47 | lcuk | Funnyface, of course |
| 18:36.59 | lcuk | optimising for a lower spec device makes it looks really slick on faster |
| 18:37.08 | Funnyface | yeah |
| 18:37.14 | Funnyface | I just wish they'd do that for anything new :P |
| 18:37.15 | lcuk | its something I have tried to drill into many folks for a while :) |
| 18:37.25 | Funnyface | most progress in hardware is eaten by inefficient software |
| 18:37.41 | Funnyface | I'd really love to see something like windows 95 booted on a modern PC :P |
| 18:37.42 | lcuk | and designing software from comfort of your multi ghz machine |
| 18:37.58 | joga | I used transitioncontrol to pretty much make all transitions instant, it seems more slick that way |
| 18:38.11 | Shadikka | Funnyface: Shouldn't be that hard. :P |
| 18:38.21 | Shadikka | I remember somebody telling that he runs Win95 just for the speed. |
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| 18:39.09 | Funnyface | Shadikka: well, my win95 system used to boot just about as fast as my current win7 system does |
| 18:39.13 | Funnyface | :P |
| 18:39.33 | Funnyface | I wonder how microsoft can claim that every new version of windows is "faster and more efficient than ever before" |
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| 18:39.52 | lcuk | because you generally buy it on hardware that runs faster |
| 18:39.59 | Funnyface | exactly :P |
| 18:40.46 | Funnyface | if it is so much faster, maybe I should stick win7 on my old PC |
| 18:40.59 | Funnyface | just too bad it won't run on 32MB of RAM :P |
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| 18:41.35 | kynky | well he not running windows95 for the security |
| 18:42.18 | lcuk | whats wrong with security on win95? |
| 18:42.22 | koala_man | they're talking about the user experience |
| 18:42.49 | Shadikka | Well, on the other hand, Win95 is so old that if there's anything still around that exploits it, it's slightly surprising. |
| 18:43.01 | Funnyface | ^^ |
| 18:43.26 | SpeedEvil | Shadikka: you're assuming that the current exploits don't work on 95 there. |
| 18:44.17 | Shadikka | true. |
| 18:44.26 | Funnyface | well it can't be that bad, run it behind NAT, and use modern software on it |
| 18:46.04 | lcuk | win95 had ping of death didnt it? |
| 18:46.30 | Funnyface | I think the early ones did |
| 18:46.49 | kynky | think so, but that got patched, if update applied or you had a service release of it i think |
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| 18:47.29 | Funnyface | they had something called Windows 95 "B" or something that had it fixed |
| 18:47.47 | kynky | yeah win95B had usb support too |
| 18:48.59 | kynky | but if using ie3 (think ie4 was with an update) then definately some browser exploits that would effect it |
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| 19:02.54 | lcuk | who booted widows on the n900? |
| 19:02.58 | lcuk | windows |
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| 19:15.49 | RST38h | 'Galileo Was Wrong' is an inaugural conference to discuss the 'detailed and comprehensive treatment of the scientific evidence supporting Geocentrism, the academic belief that the Earth is immobile in the center of the universe. |
| 19:16.09 | RST38h | 'Scientific evidence available to us within the last 100 years that was not available during Galileo's confrontation shows that the [Catholic] Church's position on the immobility of the Earth is not only scientifically supportable, but it is the most stable model of the universe and the one which best answers all the evidence we see in the cosmos.' |
| 19:16.42 | RST38h | read it as "100 metres" rather than "100 years" first, but anyway... |
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| 19:20.39 | qwebirc19741 | hey |
| 19:21.15 | qwebirc19741 | can someone tell me, if i can use gfire pidgin plugin on my n900 somehow?!?! pls help!! :$ |
| 19:21.37 | RST38h | no. |
| 19:21.47 | qwebirc19741 | =( |
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| 19:22.07 | qwebirc19741 | so xfire is unable on n900? |
| 19:22.13 | SpeedEvil | qwebirc19741: In principle - it would need compiled. |
| 19:22.26 | qwebirc19741 | hm |
| 19:22.35 | RST38h | Speed: If he could recompile stuff he wouldn't be asking |
| 19:22.48 | qwebirc19741 | yeah =D tru |
| 19:23.09 | qwebirc19741 | as you see, im totally noob to these stuffs =( |
| 19:23.35 | nox- | moin |
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| 19:57.49 | trumee | luke-jr: around? |
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| 20:15.21 | alterego | Half way season 2 of SG-1 .. |
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| 20:15.55 | alterego | It's been a good Sunday, got some nice coding done, had some pizza and a few beers. |
| 20:15.56 | lcuk | alterego, how is your app coming on? |
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| 20:16.13 | alterego | Pretty good. |
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| 20:16.47 | lcuk | screenies or updates? is it converted to qml yet? |
| 20:17.06 | alterego | Past few sessions I've been heavily refactoring the configuration areas. |
| 20:17.23 | alterego | Funny you should mention that, I've actually been working on porting some of my widgets to QML :) |
| 20:17.28 | lbt | any debian packagers fancy packaging a tool to help me setup management around the meego community cluster? http://www.heiho.net/synctool/ |
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| 20:18.59 | alterego | Unfortunately, all my attempts to get a Qt 4.7 toolchain and madde working together have failed. |
| 20:19.16 | alterego | So I'm kinda stuck waiting for Qt SDK 2 |
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| 20:19.35 | alterego | Downloaded the RC today, but it doesn't contain any maemo stuff :/ |
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| 20:20.12 | alterego | Also, qml-launcher has for some reason stopped working on my N900 :/ |
| 20:20.19 | alterego | And I'm not really prepared to reflash just yet. |
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| 20:41.29 | lcuk | alterego, hmm |
| 20:41.36 | lcuk | you sound like you goosed it up slightly |
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| 20:45.26 | alterego | I don't see how :/ I do very little lower than app development. |
| 20:46.20 | alterego | It just stopped working, around the time I installed an fcam update but I can't believe that actually had anything to do with it. |
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| 20:57.51 | RST38h | BTW, why are Modest people not updating their source code in git? |
| 20:59.56 | lcuk | where are you seeing commits being made? |
| 21:02.36 | alterego | Why aren't people modifying hildon doing the same? |
| 21:02.36 | alterego | :) |
| 21:02.42 | alterego | Has MohammadAG51 submitted his patches? |
| 21:02.59 | RST38h | does he have any patches? |
| 21:03.00 | lcuk | clean specific patches pending :) |
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| 21:03.11 | alterego | :) |
| 21:03.17 | RST38h | Hasn't he taken the current version of hildon-desktop and compiled it? |
| 21:03.49 | alterego | Various people have added modifications aswell, implementing functionality, one of which I believe is to do with application launcher scroll speed. |
| 21:03.52 | lcuk | we have various tips of HD, but no bugfix commits to send through review |
| 21:03.55 | lcuk | yes RST38h |
| 21:04.25 | alterego | But with two different mods, one using gconf and the other transition files. |
| 21:04.27 | lcuk | alterego, implementing new functionality technically has specific issues without much more discussion |
| 21:04.35 | alterego | (I personally prefer MohammadAG51's transition file approach tbh) |
| 21:04.47 | lcuk | but patches to unfixed bugs could be sent down a different track easily. |
| 21:05.14 | lcuk | scroll speed is a reversion of a change made by madam |
| 21:05.20 | RST38h | alterego: the scroll speed thing is in the svn |
| 21:05.27 | RST38h | alterego: committed by the maintainer |
| 21:05.47 | alterego | Oh, cool |
| 21:06.00 | RST38h | alterego: I suggested an icon rotation feature that can be added relatively easily |
| 21:06.17 | RST38h | But nobody is willing to try adding it, and I do not have the time myself |
| 21:06.23 | lcuk | RST38h, there is already a test branch which does portrait switcher in the open somewhere |
| 21:06.46 | RST38h | lcuk: yes, but the full portrait switch is way more intrusive |
| 21:07.00 | RST38h | lcuk: not clear what to do with the desktop content too |
| 21:07.03 | alterego | Yay, branches .. |
| 21:07.15 | RST38h | rotating the icons is a neater idea imho |
| 21:07.27 | lcuk | lessrstdesktop content has been contentious for a while as we know |
| 21:07.31 | alterego | So, Nokia drop hildon, who picks it up? :) |
| 21:07.32 | lcuk | and I 100% agree |
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| 21:14.53 | lcuk | alterego, not dropped, given freedom, if we want it hildon on meego etc we have to get used to dealing with it in the community. |
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| 21:15.51 | RST38h | lcuk: we do not want hildon on meego |
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| 21:16.28 | RST38h | lcuk: we need meego devices with well maintained firmware and stable APIs that do not change every year |
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| 21:16.54 | lcuk | sure RST38h |
| 21:16.56 | RST38h | hildon itself is not some religious symbol that you want to carry on at any cost |
| 21:17.10 | lcuk | i dont want to, but theres a lot of apps, gtk or qt |
| 21:17.11 | RST38h | it is a framework. qt is another framework. I can live with either. |
| 21:17.16 | lcuk | that depend upon the libraries within |
| 21:17.33 | RST38h | lcuk: People will switch from gtk apps to qt ones, but nothing will change overally |
| 21:17.46 | RST38h | yes, there will be some apps we will lose, but we will gain some new ones |
| 21:17.57 | lcuk | sure |
| 21:18.01 | RST38h | as I've said, maintaining hildon compatibility is not a bug issue |
| 21:18.13 | lcuk | for you perhaps |
| 21:18.27 | RST38h | But having two incompatible Qt-based APIs that do the same and are not compatible qith Qt base IS AN ISSUE |
| 21:18.46 | alterego | You don't have to agree with it RST38h but if people want it, then they'll have it. |
| 21:18.52 | RST38h | Of course none of us can do anything about it, as it is once again a matter of Nokia internal politics |
| 21:19.01 | alterego | There was interested in a MeeGo with a more Maemo UX |
| 21:19.07 | alterego | s/interested/interest |
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| 21:19.27 | lcuk | RST38h, for the greater majority of apps, hildon compatability will be an issue at least for a short time |
| 21:19.29 | RST38h | alterego: Yea, I am not arguing that some people may want it, but strongly doubt it is going to be of wide public interest. Most users and developers will just move on |
| 21:19.37 | lcuk | until mechanisms to translate that knowledge are in place |
| 21:19.51 | alterego | Most users and developers hopefully wont be moving at all. |
| 21:20.06 | RST38h | lcuk: it will be the same as with maemo5. 2-4 months of no-apps, then everything back to normal. |
| 21:20.07 | alterego | I'd imagine the advent of MeeGo will obviously introduce far more developers and users from outside of MeeGo |
| 21:20.23 | alterego | 2nd MeeGo was Maemo there ;) |
| 21:20.30 | RST38h | lcuk: Unless, of course, Nokia and Intel successfully manage to alienate whatever community developers they have got left |
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| 21:21.00 | lcuk | RST38h, we have known about the qt transition for >12months |
| 21:21.08 | alterego | I don't think that will happen, not on a mass scale, those of us that are still here are obviously well informed about what is happening. |
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| 21:21.23 | alterego | The largest factor I think for most of us is access to devices .. |
| 21:21.27 | Stskeeps | and the changes in maemo5 was known for a long while too |
| 21:21.27 | RST38h | alterego: Well, meego.com is not nearly as inclusive as maemo.org. They do not appear to be interested in anyone not directly contributing to their corporate projects |
| 21:21.29 | lcuk | and to date I have yet to see a single app taken bodily from gtk to qt |
| 21:21.49 | RST38h | lcuk: And you may have noticed a multitude of Qt apps in Maemo repos |
| 21:21.52 | Stskeeps | the first action came when there was a new device |
| 21:21.57 | lcuk | RST38h, sure |
| 21:22.03 | alterego | Stskeeps: agreed. |
| 21:22.04 | lcuk | but many of those are written with hildon in mind |
| 21:22.05 | RST38h | lcuk: Conversion from GTK to Qt is never going to happen, so no wonder |
| 21:22.19 | RST38h | lcuk: It is easier to write an app from scratch. Or at least rewrite the UI. |
| 21:22.28 | lcuk | oh I totally know that! |
| 21:22.29 | Stskeeps | many most likely want to get away from GObject braindamage too |
| 21:22.36 | RST38h | lcuk: So, as I have said, the set of apps will change |
| 21:22.39 | Stskeeps | or give qt that shot they always wanted |
| 21:22.57 | RST38h | STskeeps: As weird as it may sound, I do not give a shit about GObject or QObject |
| 21:23.12 | RST38h | Stskeeps: As long as I get to do what I want to do with the minimum overhead |
| 21:23.16 | lcuk | gobject isnt braindamage, its reasonable compromise |
| 21:23.43 | lcuk | like anycodebase |
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| 21:24.03 | RST38h | Stskeeps: What I so far see in Qt is that the ownership of objects is often muddied. You add a widget to another widget and you are no longer sure who owns the pointer to the first widet |
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| 21:24.41 | RST38h | Stskeeps: Maybe I simply missed some important piece of documentation though. But if not, we will get way more leakage bugs with Qt |
| 21:24.43 | Stskeeps | RST38h: heck if i know.. qt is on my list of things to learn |
| 21:24.50 | alterego | I admit, it is somewhat confusing, but Qt uses reference counting .. |
| 21:24.58 | alterego | So as long as it has a parent you shouldn't worry about it |
| 21:25.02 | Stskeeps | RST38h: i just know what headaches i've had from gobject |
| 21:25.16 | RST38h | alterego: Except that the definition of parent is kinda muddied too |
| 21:25.30 | alterego | RST38h: not really, an object can only have one parent. |
| 21:25.33 | marnanel | so I have apparently bricked my N900. I am trying to cold flash Fremantle onto it again, but flasher-3.5 keeps telling me "You have to supply the 2nd image". What am I doing wrong? |
| 21:25.40 | alterego | Though the parent can be changed. |
| 21:25.41 | RST38h | STskeeps: Yea, GObject is someone really hating C++ trying to implement C++ in C :) |
| 21:26.18 | alterego | Actually, GObject was devised more to interface with other languages, object-orientation was the design paradigm they chose, didn't have much to do with C++ per se. |
| 21:26.22 | RST38h | alterego: Yet, when you add a widget to the layout, the docs say that "the layout takes the ownership". Is layout a parent now? Or not? And who is the parent? |
| 21:26.45 | Stskeeps | alterego: yet everyone ended up doing strange C programs with it.. |
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| 21:26.57 | RST38h | alterego: Of course. And it is completely incidental that their Vala language got to look exactly like C++ |
| 21:27.07 | Stskeeps | vala should have come first, not gobject |
| 21:27.08 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 21:27.21 | alterego | RST38h: well, similar, it's more C# than C++ imo :P |
| 21:27.27 | RST38h | alterego: yea, right :) |
| 21:27.28 | lcuk | if native C had supported object.method(args) syntax, most of c++ and vala could go out the window :D |
| 21:27.34 | alterego | Though I'm not intimately familiar with vala :) |
| 21:27.45 | RST38h | lcuk: "nativeC supporting methods" is otherwise known as C++ :) |
| 21:27.58 | lcuk | sure CFont did basically that |
| 21:28.00 | alterego | Regardless of these points, at least we're not using Objective-C like those iPhone nerds :P |
| 21:28.01 | lcuk | but then it evolved! |
| 21:28.04 | lcuk | feature creep! |
| 21:28.05 | RST38h | lcuk: Which, believe it or not, ANYONE can use using the same GCC compiler :) |
| 21:28.21 | lcuk | alterego, sigh |
| 21:28.24 | RST38h | lcuk: YOu are not forced to use the complete C++ standard |
| 21:28.32 | lcuk | a fully OO language is good |
| 21:28.36 | lcuk | of course RST38h |
| 21:28.43 | alterego | lcuk: I'm sorry, do you like Obj-C? :) |
| 21:28.48 | lcuk | and liqbase is now built with g++ |
| 21:28.49 | alterego | Like Ruby .. |
| 21:28.51 | RST38h | lcuk: In fact, I regularly tell our developers to avoid doing so if they want to stay sane and in one piece |
| 21:28.59 | lcuk | i build regular c stuff |
| 21:29.06 | lcuk | but have option to upgrade as required |
| 21:29.24 | lcuk | it causes some minor tweaks but nothing drastic |
| 21:29.26 | RST38h | C++ isn't really an OO language, Smalltalk is :) |
| 21:29.30 | lcuk | sure |
| 21:29.37 | RST38h | But never tell it to C++ gurus ;) |
| 21:29.45 | alterego | Ruby, C#, Java, Smalltalk .. |
| 21:29.50 | lcuk | OO to most people is the runtime meta info and introspection |
| 21:29.55 | RST38h | Oberon, anyone? |
| 21:30.00 | lcuk | which had to be tacked on to give it to qt |
| 21:30.05 | lcuk | vb.net! |
| 21:30.06 | RST38h | PERL5+? Latest PHP? |
| 21:30.08 | *** part/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@82-168-81-130.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 21:30.14 | alterego | yuk :P |
| 21:30.17 | RST38h | Objective PROLOG... |
| 21:30.23 | lcuk | i like the .net core system |
| 21:30.27 | lcuk | but dislike its ide |
| 21:30.37 | ml-mobile | FORTRAN++ |
| 21:31.00 | RST38h | You can create goddamn objects in any language, with a bit of syntactic glue |
| 21:31.06 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@84-75-182-160.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:31.14 | SpeedEvil | I object! |
| 21:31.15 | RST38h | It is important to only create them when they FUCKING MAKE SENSE |
| 21:31.22 | alterego | Hahah |
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| 21:32.10 | *** part/#maemo catalin (~catalin@unaffiliated/catalin) |
| 21:32.14 | derf | OO is encapsulation and polymorphism. |
| 21:32.26 | derf | RTTI and introspection is something else. |
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| 21:33.07 | RST38h | [COROLLARY: That is why you should never make students read books on OOP and design methods. The feeble minded are too easy to go mad after that.] |
| 21:33.23 | RST38h | derf: OO is when everything is an object |
| 21:33.44 | RST38h | derf: Blocks of code are not objects in C++. Neither are atomic types, really. |
| 21:33.58 | derf | That's "pure OO"... it gets a extra word because it's a stupid thing to do. |
| 21:33.59 | kerio | python doesn't let me subclass modules :( |
| 21:34.05 | RST38h | derf: In fact, types are not objects (can't do stuff like int.size() :)) |
| 21:34.13 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@54.200.49.122-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 21:34.16 | alterego | You can in some languages :) |
| 21:34.29 | *** join/#maemo nidO (nidO@dsl-fixed-94-30-53-17.interdsl.co.uk) |
| 21:34.33 | alterego | Well, where int.size actually makes any sense :P |
| 21:34.34 | RST38h | derf: Only gets an extra word because C++ gurus do not want to accept that their glorified C preprocessor is not OOP ;) |
| 21:35.03 | derf | "C++ gurus"? |
| 21:35.05 | derf | I hate C++. |
| 21:35.15 | RST38h | derf: then you should understand |
| 21:35.17 | RST38h | cackles |
| 21:35.46 | derf | I mean, it's not like Smalltalk is better. |
| 21:35.47 | RST38h | Real OOP probably wouldn't run as fast as C/C++ programs do... |
| 21:35.53 | RST38h | derf: of course not |
| 21:36.01 | derf | It's a cute little language, but I wouldn't want to actually write software in it. |
| 21:36.21 | RST38h | derf: but that is the point, nobody really wants to USE a real OOP language |
| 21:36.26 | RST38h | derf: too unpractical |
| 21:36.35 | derf | I agree with you. |
| 21:36.47 | RST38h | Similar subject: real functional language, like LISP |
| 21:36.51 | derf | I was objecting mostly to lcuk's definition of OO. |
| 21:36.52 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (~magao@84.79.25.26) |
| 21:36.53 | RST38h | Very elegant but a bitch to use |
| 21:37.22 | sp3000 | heretic! :P |
| 21:37.26 | lcuk | derf, most people when asked respond like that |
| 21:37.36 | RST38h | (CDR sp3000) |
| 21:37.40 | derf | lcuk: Most people are idiots. |
| 21:38.05 | derf | At least when it comes to programming. |
| 21:39.15 | *** part/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 21:39.24 | lcuk | is it this kind of negativity that makes qt difficult or people? |
| 21:39.43 | lcuk | for ^ |
| 21:39.47 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 21:40.24 | RST38h | why do you think qt is difficult? |
| 21:41.02 | derf | I thought everyone loved Qt. |
| 21:41.11 | lcuk | <derf> It's a cute little language, but I wouldn't want to actually write software in it. |
| 21:41.25 | RST38h | lcuk: derf said that about Smalltalk |
| 21:41.38 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 21:41.45 | alterego | I quite like it, but there's not really enough description of some of the lower level fundamentals that stop me from freaking out. |
| 21:41.56 | alterego | Like the whole reference counting by parents etc. |
| 21:41.57 | lcuk | reasonable enough RST38h |
| 21:42.19 | derf | Documentation is always poor. |
| 21:42.30 | derf | I _still_ have no idea what the GTK reference counting rules are. |
| 21:42.41 | derf | And I've been using it for some ridiculous number of years now. |
| 21:43.19 | lcuk | allocate what you need, release it when its done, be sensible. should be the ref counting rules for every object |
| 21:43.39 | alterego | Actually, I found gtk better, it generally tells you when you need to destroy objects you get etc. |
| 21:43.44 | lcuk | but devs get lazy and say "oh the garbage collection will get it" |
| 21:44.03 | alterego | Though, with the appropriate C++ qualifiers you get a decent indication ;) |
| 21:44.14 | derf | alterego: I meant more once you put things in the widget hierarchy. |
| 21:45.13 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 21:45.27 | *** join/#maemo Dhraak[n900] (~ntryon@42.interlockroc.net) |
| 21:45.54 | derf | But lcuk is right. If you have to think about it too hard, then the system is designed wrong. |
| 21:46.41 | DocScrutinizer | yo |
| 21:46.45 | alterego | Agreed |
| 21:47.17 | FIQ|n900 | maemo.org or me fail? |
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| 21:59.24 | DocScrutinizer | http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/maemo.com |
| 21:59.44 | *** join/#maemo genewitch (~genewitch@cpe-76-174-127-138.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 21:59.50 | DocScrutinizer | .org ofc |
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| 22:08.49 | pigeon_ | does anyone know where you're supposed to find sygic mobile maps 10 for the n900? the one on ovi store is still 9 for me. |
| 22:08.59 | b-man` | w00t!! i just booted my N900 with u-boot :D |
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| 22:13.14 | *** join/#maemo musca (musca@tyrael.eu) |
| 22:13.39 | MohammadAG51 | b-man`, do wild ducks!!! |
| 22:13.54 | b-man` | lol |
| 22:14.02 | MohammadAG51 | Get symbian^3 running |
| 22:14.22 | b-man` | sure, i'll try lol |
| 22:14.51 | MohammadAG51 | I'm not kidding |
| 22:15.01 | MohammadAG51 | Get symbian^3 running |
| 22:15.09 | MohammadAG51 | i wanna see what they did to that crap |
| 22:15.14 | b-man` | i'm not kidding either :) |
| 22:15.24 | b-man` | MohammadAG51, btw |
| 22:15.29 | b-man` | if you wanna try |
| 22:15.44 | b-man` | i have the u-boot image that i builded uploaded |
| 22:15.53 | b-man` | *built |
| 22:16.13 | *** join/#maemo Funnyface (~user5330@213.84-49-158.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:16.41 | b-man` | http://b-man.xceleo.org/files/u-boot-2.6.28.10debian38.bin |
| 22:16.59 | *** join/#maemo Sickki (sickki@unaffiliated/sickki) |
| 22:17.20 | b-man` | flasher-3.5 -k u-boot-2.6.28.10debian38.bin -f -R |
| 22:18.01 | MohammadAG51 | zImage? |
| 22:18.20 | b-man` | it's both u-boot and zImage |
| 22:18.27 | b-man` | in 1 file |
| 22:19.05 | b-man` | it's a safer method than wiping nolo |
| 22:19.29 | MohammadAG51 | yeah |
| 22:19.40 | MohammadAG51 | although wiping nolo would be nice |
| 22:19.55 | MohammadAG51 | I wonder if it says Aieeee or something when it dies |
| 22:20.01 | b-man` | lol |
| 22:20.21 | b-man` | hmm |
| 22:20.38 | b-man` | so far, everything in maemo works as if nothing has happened :) |
| 22:24.10 | Arkenoi | played with s^3 a bit, almost no difference from 5th edition |
| 22:24.12 | Arkenoi | sucks |
| 22:24.12 | Arkenoi | (as expected) |
| 22:24.44 | Arkenoi | crappy ui, no unified communications |
| 22:26.10 | *** join/#maemo rodarvus__ (~rodarvus@187.112.249.80) |
| 22:26.35 | *** join/#maemo rodarvus (~rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus) |
| 22:26.47 | b-man` | i wonder if i can now get NetBSD running... xD |
| 22:27.18 | DocScrutinizer | @Nokia: look there: http://maemo.org/news/jobs/ and tell me about the joy to read same biz speak blabla for EACH and EVERY job :-/ |
| 22:28.16 | DocScrutinizer | could we maybe get a diff patch that only holds the unique bits of each job offer? |
| 22:29.38 | DocScrutinizer | ps: same problem on taleo |
| 22:35.56 | johnx | mornin' all |
| 22:36.30 | MohammadAG51 | Shapeshifter, reactionfaceoff still fails to start |
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| 22:40.40 | Shapeshifter | MohammadAG51: how so? ran it from the command line? |
| 22:41.10 | MohammadAG51 | Shapeshifter, i pastebinned the error for you a month ago :P |
| 22:41.21 | MohammadAG51 | you never got it fixed |
| 22:41.32 | Shapeshifter | well shit. |
| 22:41.34 | MohammadAG51 | AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'core' |
| 22:41.50 | Shapeshifter | ah yes, the numpy problem. I have no clue whatsoever why it occurs. |
| 22:41.53 | Shapeshifter | and I cannot fix it. |
| 22:42.04 | Shapeshifter | I don't know why your numpy has no core. |
| 22:42.04 | MohammadAG51 | sigh |
| 22:42.14 | Shapeshifter | mine has a core. like it should :| |
| 22:42.21 | MohammadAG51 | idk, reflash your device and you'll lose it |
| 22:45.28 | Shapeshifter | MohammadAG51: I just looked at http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/python-numpy/1.4.0-1maemo2/ and it has a core module. |
| 22:46.23 | Shapeshifter | on my phone, I have 1.4.0-1maemo4 which is in testing, and it too has a core module. numpy must have a core module. I don't know why this happens on your device. |
| 22:46.37 | Shapeshifter | what does apt-cache show python-numpy tell you? |
| 22:46.41 | Shapeshifter | which version do you have? |
| 22:46.58 | *** join/#maemo Smily (Smily@89.142.220.182) |
| 22:48.05 | MohammadAG51 | ii python-numpy 1:1.4.0-1maemo3 |
| 22:49.19 | Shapeshifter | of course, it has a core. But you see. You can just do python >>>from numpy import core and it should work. but it doesn't for you. |
| 22:49.34 | *** join/#maemo DangerMmaus (~eeeeeeeee@99.141.69.148) |
| 22:49.44 | *** join/#maemo Wamanuz (~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 22:49.49 | Shapeshifter | no idea why it is broken. it's not broken here, and I have no guesses on what must be broken for this not to work on your device. maybe you did some funky optification of python or whatnot |
| 22:49.55 | Shapeshifter | maybe the numpy package has a bug. |
| 22:50.41 | MohammadAG51 | ImportError: /usr/lib/libblas.so.3gf: undefined symbol: d_cnjg |
| 22:51.10 | MohammadAG51 | Shapeshifter, i reflashed twice, it failed each time |
| 22:51.49 | Shapeshifter | well it seems like numpy depends on libblas3gf (>= 1.2-2maemo3) and apparently, that lib is broken. |
| 22:53.32 | Shapeshifter | I saw something similar happening with pyside and Qt, also a undefined symbol error. not on my device, however. This was the bug report http://bugs.openbossa.org/show_bug.cgi?id=275 and their analysis was "a problem with binary compatibility between PySide and Qt, |
| 22:53.33 | povbot | Bug 275: RFE: Nokia 770 needs VPN (GUI) |
| 22:53.37 | Shapeshifter | maybe a new Qt update has broken the compatibility between the libs, we will |
| 22:53.39 | Shapeshifter | release a new PySide version this week and this will fix this problem" |
| 22:54.18 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 22:54.47 | Shapeshifter | so my guess now is that whatever the numpy module wants from libblas3gf is not there anymore. I guess it should be reported to the numpy dude. But maybe this has been fixed in 1.4.0-1maemo4, which you don't use, yet. |
| 22:57.40 | *** join/#maemo lolloo (~user@94.99.74.74) |
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| 23:29.55 | lolloo | how do I work Psfreedom? |
| 23:30.15 | lolloo | do I just install it from the repo? |
| 23:30.36 | lolloo | can you help me guys? |
| 23:32.55 | pigeon_ | can you (temporarily) disable the power kernel without uninstalling it? |
| 23:33.40 | johnx | lolloo, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=61669 |
| 23:34.30 | johnx | pigeon_, not to my knowledge. as far as I know, it replaces the kernel in flash when it's installed, then puts the old one back when it's uninstalled |
| 23:34.47 | johnx | (someone will definitely correct me if I'm wrong here ;) ) |
| 23:35.28 | pigeon_ | johnx: hmm, but then, i noticed when the power kernel crashes, the reboot will load the old kernel automatically. |
| 23:35.56 | johnx | aaah, then it's quite possible I'm wrong. :) sorry for the confusion |
| 23:36.00 | pigeon_ | so i'm guessing the old/stock kernel isn't "replaced" completely. |
| 23:36.57 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@user-12lcboo.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 23:37.11 | johnx | lolloo, BTW, that was the first result on google for: n900 ps3freedom site:talk.maemo.org |
| 23:38.43 | johnx | pigeon, if you tell me the exact package name I'll take a look at the packaging and see if I can make a better guess as to how it coexists with the stock Nokia kernel |
| 23:38.56 | johnx | is it 'kernel-power'? |
| 23:39.18 | pigeon | i believe so. |
| 23:39.50 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro) |
| 23:40.08 | FIQ|n900 | yay :D |
| 23:40.10 | FIQ|n900 | rootfs 227.9M 223.7M 8.0k 100% / |
| 23:40.53 | johnx | FIQ|n900, ok, I'll bite: what exactly did you do? |
| 23:41.24 | FIQ|n900 | i downloaded a too big file |
| 23:41.36 | FIQ|n900 | why is the browser downloading tmp files in /var |
| 23:41.37 | johnx | aaah, without the headers I read that backwards :) |
| 23:41.37 | FIQ|n900 | -.- |
| 23:41.52 | johnx | parsed that as 100% of the space being free :) |
| 23:41.56 | FIQ|n900 | and, fixed |
| 23:41.58 | FIQ|n900 | hah |
| 23:43.19 | johnx | pigeon, did you have to download a 'multiboot' or 'flasher' package of some type as well? |
| 23:43.43 | pigeon | johnx: yeah, it's a dependency of something else i think. |
| 23:44.02 | pigeon | let me check |
| 23:44.42 | pigeon | kernel-flasher at least |
| 23:45.17 | johnx | kernel-flasher or kernel-power-flasher? |
| 23:45.27 | javispedro | hmpf. gtk_text_buffer_crete_mark - mark_name parameter: documentation: "name for mark, or NULL." implementation:"g_assert(name != NULL);" |
| 23:45.38 | pigeon | johnx: i have both installed actually. |
| 23:46.41 | ShadSEC | Anyone knows what does wlancond do to associate to an ap, besides the usual set essid, etc? I need a way to do it from commandline |
| 23:47.14 | javispedro | ShadSEC: a lot of things, does the network use encryption? |
| 23:47.47 | ShadSEC | in this test WEP, but I need more support than that |
| 23:47.48 | javispedro | the issue is not wlancond, which is open, but the crypto part, which is closed and invoked by wlancond |
| 23:48.02 | javispedro | ShadSEC: use wpasupplicant |
| 23:48.19 | ShadSEC | javispedro, the problem is that it isnt associating (Not-Associated) |
| 23:48.23 | johnx | ShadSEC, what exactly are your requirements? are you trying to cut wlancond out of the equation or just pull its strings from the command line? |
| 23:48.55 | ShadSEC | at first I tried to put (stop wlancond) it out, but that is even worse |
| 23:50.04 | ShadSEC | My need: It will be enough if I just are able to iwconfig essid, key, etc and it associated from command line |
| 23:50.36 | ShadSEC | I dont care if wlancond is running or not as long as it doesnt mess with my wlan0 |
| 23:51.27 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@122.212.45.242) |
| 23:52.14 | nox- | http://code.technically.us/post/1109586140/exchange-remote-wipe-is-a-terrible-terrible-bug |
| 23:52.25 | *** join/#maemo DangerMmaus (~eeeeeeeee@adsl-99-141-69-148.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:52.44 | ShadSEC | I even thought about telling it to do it for me using the dbus call setting_and_connect |
| 23:52.46 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 23:52.50 | nox- | i wonder if maemo does that too... |
| 23:52.57 | nox- | (or meego for that matter) |
| 23:53.03 | johnx | ShadSEC, that's what I'd suggest |
| 23:53.14 | johnx | I don't think wlancond will ignore wlan0 as long as it's running |
| 23:53.18 | javispedro | ShadSEC: I used to do that pre-N900 but I know that the wifi driver on n900 is complete enough to work with wpasupplicant alone |
| 23:53.21 | ShadSEC | but I am not sure how to translate the straced dbus call into one I can use |
| 23:53.48 | ShadSEC | neither I have been able to find information about that call googling |
| 23:53.59 | javispedro | ShadSEC: sample code https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=libicd-wpa;a=blob;f=wlan.c;h=659e922d4f39f6a71969be32502c54ce9cf4700f;hb=3611cfaee7e551b23487562c54982cf5155978fb#l153 |
| 23:54.06 | javispedro | either way, don't |
| 23:54.18 | javispedro | wpasupplicant is know to work, so I'll check your conf file |
| 23:54.23 | javispedro | *I'd |
| 23:55.26 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 23:55.40 | SpeedEvil | I wonder why my 3G speed max has gone way up |
| 23:55.46 | SpeedEvil | now I'm getting 1.5mbps |
| 23:57.48 | johnx | javispedro, wpa_supplicant will actually work with wlancond running? |
| 23:58.05 | javispedro | johnx: doubt so |
| 23:58.13 | javispedro | johnx: any scan will put the interface dow |
| 23:58.17 | ShadSEC | I didn't even tried wpa_supplicant since I was testing wep alone |
| 23:58.21 | javispedro | johnx: and icd2 will initiate one every 30s |
| 23:58.47 | javispedro | er... every 10 minutes (user setting after all) |
| 23:58.59 | johnx | nox-, yeah. the remote wipe thing always weirded me out. It's basically a requirement for anything to be allowed to connect to exchange, AFAICT |
| 23:59.11 | ShadSEC | the biggest problem I think it is that when stop wlancond, it powerdowns the wlan or something |
| 23:59.24 | javispedro | did you ifconfig wlan0 up? |
