| 00:00.05 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@62.219.120.20) |
| 00:00.10 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 00:00.48 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil1 (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 00:06.00 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@host-94-248-205-46.kabelnet.hu) |
| 00:07.07 | pyther | Can someone help me get the SDK running? |
| 00:07.13 | pyther | I keep getting /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set |
| 00:14.11 | FIQ|n900 | what is the system-wide .bashrc and where is it? |
| 00:15.04 | BugBlue | /etc/bashrc : |
| 00:26.37 | pyther | Does anyone have any good guides on getting started with the SDK |
| 00:28.57 | MohammadAG | ~maemosdk |
| 00:28.57 | infobot | from memory, maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation |
| 00:29.17 | *** join/#maemo angasule (~angasule@190.2.33.49) |
| 00:29.56 | *** join/#maemo teilzeitstudent (~teilzeits@p5DCCDDE2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:32.08 | *** join/#maemo booiiing (booiiing@e180016027.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 00:33.10 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
| 00:33.59 | Venemo | I tried to install the SDK |
| 00:34.04 | Venemo | this is the result: http://pastebin.com/bF0k7SgD |
| 00:34.07 | Venemo | could anyone help me? |
| 00:34.45 | MohammadAG | 64 bit |
| 00:34.48 | MohammadAG | am i right? |
| 00:35.02 | Venemo | yes. |
| 00:35.07 | MohammadAG | add vdso32=0 to the kernel parameters in grub and reboot |
| 00:35.09 | Venemo | Fedora 13 x86_64 |
| 00:35.12 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 00:35.17 | MohammadAG | whatever fedora uses then |
| 00:35.33 | MohammadAG | add vdso32=0 to kernel parameters |
| 00:35.37 | Venemo | okay |
| 00:36.01 | Venemo | it is /etc/grub.conf |
| 00:37.12 | Venemo | okay, I'll reboot |
| 00:38.37 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil1 (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 00:41.44 | pyther | How can I switch to the arm environment in the SDK? |
| 00:41.53 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@host-94-248-205-46.kabelnet.hu) |
| 00:43.21 | MohammadAG | pyther, sb-conf select FREMANTLE_ARMEL |
| 00:43.31 | MohammadAG | Venemo, assuming it worked? |
| 00:44.14 | pyther | MohammadAG: what should I answer when it asks me all the other questions? |
| 00:44.20 | Venemo | MohammadAG: it booted :) |
| 00:44.32 | MohammadAG | pyther, what all other questions? |
| 00:44.32 | Venemo | MohammadAG: now the SDK is installing itself again |
| 00:44.43 | MohammadAG | Venemo, btw |
| 00:44.49 | MohammadAG | I suggest when the SDK installs fully |
| 00:44.51 | MohammadAG | successfully |
| 00:44.57 | MohammadAG | you make backups of all packages |
| 00:45.01 | MohammadAG | makes reinstallations easier |
| 00:45.17 | pyther | I'm reinstalling, but it asked me about downloading some stuff and something about debian etch and lenny |
| 00:45.17 | Venemo | MohammadAG: okay, how do I do that? |
| 00:45.27 | MohammadAG | not sure how it runs on fedora, but scratchbox packages get downloaded to /tmp |
| 00:45.28 | pyther | ^^ I second that question |
| 00:46.11 | Venemo | MohammadAG: I'm still a Linux noob, so I just use the GUI tool for now |
| 00:46.21 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 00:46.24 | MohammadAG | check /tmp |
| 00:46.36 | Venemo | MohammadAG: so, if I save those packages from /tmp, then it doesn't have to redownload? |
| 00:46.44 | MohammadAG | yes, just use -c |
| 00:46.52 | MohammadAG | the GUI sucks btw :P |
| 00:47.01 | Venemo | MohammadAG: :D |
| 00:47.01 | MohammadAG | as for maemo related stuff |
| 00:47.13 | pyther | 1.2M/tmp/ |
| 00:47.19 | MohammadAG | the rootstrap is in /scratchbox/users/$user/home/$user/ |
| 00:47.23 | pyther | I don't think the packages are stored in tmp :P |
| 00:47.24 | MohammadAG | rootstraps actually |
| 00:47.35 | MohammadAG | heh, they are on debian/ubuntu :P |
| 00:47.46 | pyther | MohammadAG: I am on Ubuntu 10.04 |
| 00:47.50 | MohammadAG | hmm, rebooted? |
| 00:47.58 | MohammadAG | use the -F option |
| 00:47.59 | pyther | no the installer is still running |
| 00:48.07 | MohammadAG | well |
| 00:48.18 | Venemo | MohammadAG: there are a bunch of .tar.gz's in /tmp, indeed |
| 00:48.25 | MohammadAG | search for scratchbox-core_1.0.16_i386.deb |
| 00:48.56 | MohammadAG | mohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~/Documents/PR1.2 SDK$ ls * |wc -l |
| 00:48.57 | MohammadAG | 3129 |
| 00:49.40 | pyther | /var/cache/apt/archives/scratchbox-core_1.0.16_i386.deb |
| 00:49.49 | MohammadAG | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Hv1nZ3Fs |
| 00:50.09 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~neopwn@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 00:50.17 | Venemo | MohammadAG: I have scratchbox-devkit-blah-blah.tar.gz's |
| 00:50.32 | Venemo | MohammadAG: lots of 'em |
| 00:50.38 | MohammadAG | Venemo, about 10? |
| 00:50.49 | MohammadAG | 12 actually |
| 00:50.54 | Venemo | yes, 12 |
| 00:51.24 | MohammadAG | cp them somewhere, then cp them back to /tmp and use -c to resume |
| 00:51.32 | Venemo | -c ? |
| 00:51.41 | MohammadAG | script parameter |
| 00:51.46 | MohammadAG | not available on GUI afaik |
| 00:52.12 | MohammadAG | -cUse existing downloads, don't try to download again. |
| 00:52.30 | teilzeitstudent | is scratchbox still the supported SDK by upstream? |
| 00:52.54 | teilzeitstudent | Just curious~ |
| 00:53.07 | Venemo | MohammadAG: this is a parameter for the installer, right? |
| 00:53.28 | MohammadAG | yes, the terminal based one |
| 00:53.37 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: yes, considering that MADDE is still incomplete |
| 00:53.43 | Venemo | MohammadAG: ah, okay |
| 00:53.55 | Venemo | MohammadAG: apart from this 12, there are no other packages? |
| 00:54.07 | MohammadAG | Venemo, see my pastebin link above :P |
| 00:54.40 | Venemo | MohammadAG: I have no .debs |
| 00:54.45 | pyther | MohammadAG: I run sb-menu correct? |
| 00:54.58 | MohammadAG | I guess so |
| 00:55.08 | MohammadAG | Venemo, you will, once you start installing the maemo specific crap |
| 00:55.08 | teilzeitstudent | Venemo, well, I'm not using debian and I had a lot of problems with scratchbox.. MADDE (and that nokia sdk beta thingy) caused me no heachache at all |
| 00:55.14 | pyther | oh wait you said I want sb-conf |
| 00:55.31 | MohammadAG | the debs go in /scratchbox/users/$user/targets/FREMANTLE_$ARCH/var/cache/apt/archives |
| 00:55.36 | pyther | so using sb-conf how do I tell it I want arm? |
| 00:55.38 | MohammadAG | ARCH can be X86 or ARMEL |
| 00:55.49 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: I haven't tried Scratchbox yet, but if it's a pain in the ass, I'll uninstall it |
| 00:55.49 | MohammadAG | sb-conf select FREMANTLE_ARMEL |
| 00:55.57 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: to date, I have always used MADDE |
| 00:56.08 | MohammadAG | it's not a pita :P |
| 00:56.11 | MohammadAG | but hey |
| 00:56.13 | MohammadAG | one suggestion |
| 00:56.28 | MohammadAG | remove bind mounts before rm -rf'ing /scratchbox |
| 00:56.40 | MohammadAG | I killed my server remotely cause of that |
| 00:56.47 | MohammadAG | (/dev is binded there) |
| 00:56.53 | Venemo | I will ask before trying |
| 00:56.55 | teilzeitstudent | same here lol |
| 00:57.10 | teilzeitstudent | Actually, it was my notebook :< |
| 00:57.12 | pyther | MohammadAG: and now I can start building my package/ |
| 00:57.14 | *** join/#maemo sheepbat (~lev3k@2001:5c0:1000:b::6ee7) |
| 00:57.16 | Venemo | anyways, SELinux started complaining :D |
| 00:57.29 | Venemo | lucky me, I did set it to permissive mode |
| 00:59.01 | *** join/#maemo lcukn900 (~lcuk@cpc1-oldh7-0-0-cust142.10-1.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 00:59.03 | teilzeitstudent | Venemo, which graphic card & drivers do you use? And what fps (roughly) do you get? When using MADDE (or scratchbox, for that matter) my CPU is going at like 50% all the time, even if I do not do anything |
| 00:59.04 | Venemo | hm, it now gets stuff from repository.maemo.org |
| 00:59.19 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: hard to tell. |
| 00:59.29 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: on Windows, it works flawlessly |
| 00:59.40 | teilzeitstudent | does your windows show the CPU load? |
| 00:59.42 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: on Fedora, I have tried, but didn't work with it much |
| 00:59.59 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: yes, but I haven't really checked. It works very smoothly though |
| 01:00.11 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: I haven't noticed any differences on Linux, either |
| 01:00.25 | teilzeitstudent | hmm. which gfx card do you have? |
| 01:00.41 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: GeForce GT 240M, but I doubt it matters |
| 01:00.43 | pyther | Hmm I can't seem to get af-sb-init.sh start to work |
| 01:01.02 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: the GPU doesn't really participate in compilation afaik :P |
| 01:01.19 | pyther | /usr/bin/af-sb-init.sh: line 2: qemu:: command not found |
| 01:01.21 | MohammadAG | pyther, switch to X86 |
| 01:01.23 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 01:01.27 | MohammadAG | broken install |
| 01:01.54 | pyther | MohammadAG: so I can't test out my arm apps? |
| 01:02.11 | MohammadAG | not on Xephyr |
| 01:02.58 | teilzeitstudent | Venemo, compilation no. But running stuff matters. I cant run vmware either. both are, afaik, trying to grab some native hardware mode thingy which does not work with those crappy ATI drivers |
| 01:03.15 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: I run my apps directly on my N900 |
| 01:03.28 | pyther | MohammadAG: sb-conf: You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first |
| 01:03.36 | pyther | I'm pretty sure I only have one season going though :-/ |
| 01:03.37 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: it is the fastest way of testing |
| 01:03.44 | teilzeitstudent | Venemo, so.. you compile in scratchbox (console style), then run them nativly? |
| 01:03.50 | MohammadAG | pyther, open sb-menu and hit the last option |
| 01:03.58 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: no. |
| 01:04.05 | MohammadAG | actually |
| 01:04.09 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: as I said, I have never used Scratchbox before |
| 01:04.11 | teilzeitstudent | ah right.. madde? |
| 01:04.15 | MohammadAG | the GPU can't be used on scratchbox |
| 01:04.19 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: just trying it now for the first time |
| 01:04.26 | MohammadAG | hildon-desktop runs unaccelerated for example |
| 01:04.37 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: I did set up Nokia Qt SDK |
| 01:04.47 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: I press a button in Qt Creator |
| 01:04.54 | teilzeitstudent | Venemo, if you are trying scratchbox.. I'm sorry to hear xD |
| 01:04.55 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: and the app launches on the device in a few seconds |
| 01:05.11 | pyther | Is there anyway to see my mouse in Xephyr? |
| 01:05.13 | teilzeitstudent | Yea, the nokia SDK is awesome.. compared to what I saw before |
| 01:05.15 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: well, I need to see it before judging it :P |
| 01:05.50 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: anyways, Nokia Qt SDK (which in turn uses MADDE) works very well |
| 01:06.05 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: its only problem is the lack of ability to install 3rd party packages |
| 01:06.28 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: but even that can be worked around :) |
| 01:06.43 | lcukn900 | venemo do dee how it handles them and try adding custom ones? |
| 01:06.46 | teilzeitstudent | I first had to install MADDE manually, via some obscure console stuff. Which was written for Debian and did not work well with my Gentoo. Still, better than scratchbox |
| 01:06.53 | lcukn900 | do dee? |
| 01:06.55 | MohammadAG | o/ lcuk |
| 01:06.56 | lcukn900 | so see |
| 01:07.01 | MohammadAG | LOL |
| 01:07.09 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: yeah, back in february it wasn't as convenient |
| 01:07.13 | teilzeitstudent | Then along came the Nokia sdk. |
| 01:07.34 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: anyways, the Qt SDK is pretty easy to install with its nice GUI |
| 01:07.55 | teilzeitstudent | yea...the only thing I had to just click to get it running |
| 01:08.41 | Venemo | yeah. |
| 01:08.46 | teilzeitstudent | But still.. 4gb disk space or w/e is just too much |
| 01:08.53 | Venemo | OMG! Scratchbox installer surprised me |
| 01:09.00 | pyther | where is a good place to install software / compile software if I'm not using a deb file? |
| 01:09.13 | Venemo | it enabled the RPMFusion repository and started to install Xephyr with yum |
| 01:09.32 | teilzeitstudent | inst xephyr part of X11? |
| 01:09.35 | teilzeitstudent | isnt* |
| 01:10.11 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: no. it is an X11 server |
| 01:10.24 | teilzeitstudent | pyther, to install on your device... /opt is always good. just dont try /usr |
| 01:10.55 | joga | ooh nice, just noticed fheroes2 |
| 01:10.57 | pyther | teilzeitstudent: so I should probably do a prefix=/opt/mymplayer |
| 01:10.59 | joga | I loved that game :) |
| 01:11.16 | teilzeitstudent | Venemo, errr.. I meant xorg. probably. |
| 01:11.30 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: nope. |
| 01:11.38 | teilzeitstudent | it was on my system by default I think |
| 01:11.41 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: Xorg is an X server, too, and Xephyr is another one |
| 01:11.54 | Venemo | OKAY! IT WORKS! |
| 01:12.10 | Venemo | hm, it seems to be a quite crippled down Hildon-Desktop |
| 01:12.34 | teilzeitstudent | you still need to manually install a lot of stuff with scratchbox |
| 01:12.39 | teilzeitstudent | +manually* |
| 01:12.57 | teilzeitstudent | by defautl its only a bare system... I had no menu entries whatsoever |
| 01:12.59 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: XTerm is missing! WTF! |
| 01:13.02 | teilzeitstudent | yea |
| 01:13.08 | Venemo | can I install it? |
| 01:13.20 | teilzeitstudent | apt-get install |
| 01:13.21 | pyther | How can I get a mouse cursor in Xephry |
| 01:13.21 | teilzeitstudent | ftw |
| 01:13.29 | Venemo | teilzeitstudent: there is no apt-get on Fedora :P |
| 01:13.49 | teilzeitstudent | your in a chroot on debian, arent you? |
| 01:13.51 | MohammadAG | Venemo, why install xterm? |
| 01:14.03 | MohammadAG | use the scratchbox terminal |
| 01:15.14 | teilzeitstudent | I thing he/she was talking about on the device |
| 01:15.17 | teilzeitstudent | GUI~ |
| 01:15.23 | MohammadAG | I know :) |
| 01:15.28 | MohammadAG | osso-xterm can be installed |
| 01:15.38 | MohammadAG | but you need to use the numlock enter |
| 01:15.46 | MohammadAG | err, keypad |
| 01:15.54 | teilzeitstudent | the normal enter doesnt work? |
| 01:15.55 | MohammadAG | normal enter would bring up the keyboard |
| 01:16.01 | teilzeitstudent | ah |
| 01:16.04 | MohammadAG | on screen keyboard |
| 01:16.07 | teilzeitstudent | then thats what i was doing wrong |
| 01:16.17 | MohammadAG | just use scratchbox's terminal |
| 01:16.24 | MohammadAG | it works the same |
| 01:16.27 | teilzeitstudent | had a screen... no icons, no nothing, pressed some keys and strange things happend xD |
| 01:16.36 | MohammadAG | lol |
| 01:17.29 | Venemo | MohammadAG: how do I use scratchbox terminal? |
| 01:17.41 | teilzeitstudent | pyther, on my install, all I had to do was click into the xypher window. the mouse was "grabbed" automatically then |
| 01:18.01 | MohammadAG | /sc/log |
| 01:18.07 | pyther | hmm ok, mine was grabbed but I couldn't see what I was clicking on! |
| 01:18.08 | MohammadAG | damn, tried to tab |
| 01:18.09 | MohammadAG | xD |
| 01:18.12 | MohammadAG | /scratchbox/login |
| 01:18.13 | lcukn900 | n900_2 is wailing for battery and its all the way on other side of room |
| 01:18.22 | Venemo | hm, I added the Extras repos to it... and HAM is WAY faster! |
| 01:19.07 | MohammadAG | you should see how it runs on my i5 |
| 01:19.13 | MohammadAG | it's instant |
| 01:19.17 | lcukn900 | ssh in and shutdown to stop bugging |
| 01:19.21 | Venemo | yeah |
| 01:19.31 | Venemo | this is only a T4300... but it's great |
| 01:20.04 | Venemo | the guys who designed HAM overshoot the hardware requirement a little bit |
| 01:20.13 | lcukn900 | moh/venemo how about some real tracing to see slowdowns |
| 01:20.19 | MohammadAG | You are about to open 80 tabs. This might slow down Firefox while the pages are loading. Are you sure you want to continue? LOL |
| 01:20.34 | lcukn900 | the number of packages ham was geared to handled shot up immensely |
| 01:20.55 | teilzeitstudent | i'm telling you.. the graphics card makes all the difference, if it does not support all the things the linux kernel likes, its really really slow. even if you got a tripple core with 4ghz each |
| 01:20.57 | lcukn900 | the major hammering m5 gave it is harsh |
| 01:21.18 | Venemo | lcukn900: well, a 2.1 GHz x86_64 processor can handle it better than a 600 MHz ARM one... no wonder |
| 01:21.33 | lcukn900 | i know that i mean on device |
| 01:21.42 | lcukn900 | where can be really belttightened |
| 01:22.01 | teilzeitstudent | .. what?:P |
| 01:22.12 | lcukn900 | if the apt package list is filtered |
| 01:22.20 | lcukn900 | or icons removed etc |
| 01:22.32 | lcukn900 | does it return to snappiness |
| 01:22.39 | MohammadAG | teilzeitstudent, a GFX card on a PC with scratchbox does nothing |
| 01:22.40 | Venemo | lcukn900: I get your point |
| 01:23.04 | lcukn900 | hmmm icons |
| 01:23.16 | lcukn900 | exract once when downloading |
| 01:23.18 | pyther | Well after disabling nearly all the video output i'll see if mplayre will compile successfully :P |
| 01:23.23 | lcukn900 | and remove fronm apt |
| 01:23.32 | lcukn900 | would make db reads faster? |
| 01:23.52 | teilzeitstudent | MohammadAG, it does. If you have a propetairy driver that does not support hardware emulation or w/e. Simply because printing a screen takes the CPU, not native access to the GPU |
| 01:24.20 | *** join/#maemo derf (~derf@fuzzyneural.net) |
| 01:24.25 | MohammadAG | hildon-desktop uses the powervr, no PC I know has one |
| 01:24.28 | Venemo | lcukn900: my take on HAM would be multithreading |
| 01:24.43 | MohammadAG | tbh, HAM needs to use apt-get |
| 01:24.47 | lcukn900 | venemo fapman doesnt use mt |
| 01:24.51 | lcukn900 | i dont think |
| 01:24.58 | MohammadAG | apt does stuff much faster than apt-worker |
| 01:25.00 | lcukn900 | its just more optimal |
| 01:25.35 | jacekowski | teilzeitstudent: modern graphic cards have no 2d accelleration |
| 01:25.40 | lcukn900 | just fapman doesnt support everything |
| 01:25.43 | jacekowski | teilzeitstudent: it's all done in software |
| 01:25.45 | teilzeitstudent | MohammadAG, yea, but I was talking about the hardware emulation layer inside the kernel. i.e. run ARM stuff on a x86. without having to compile the same source for both |
| 01:25.55 | luke-jr | jacekowski: err, no |
| 01:26.02 | jacekowski | err yes |
| 01:26.11 | luke-jr | jacekowski: it's done using 3D acceleration |
| 01:26.26 | Venemo | lcukn900: yeah, because fapman's author was a ******** |
| 01:26.35 | lcukn900 | venemo? |
| 01:26.40 | Venemo | lcukn900: I'm very angry at him for not committing his changes to HAM |
| 01:26.47 | teilzeitstudent | jacekowski, yea but my ATI card is... well. retarded. if i run vmware, *everything* is done on CPU. |
| 01:26.52 | luke-jr | teilzeitstudent: there is no such emulation layer |
| 01:26.52 | *** join/#maemo Transformer (~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 01:26.53 | lcukn900 | venemo he didnt change he rewrote |
| 01:27.01 | lcukn900 | and its a new implementation |
| 01:27.05 | Venemo | lcukn900: yeah, I know |
| 01:27.06 | luke-jr | teilzeitstudent: that's VMWare being retarded :P |
| 01:27.14 | jacekowski | luke-jr: software has to translate 2d drawing commands to 3d that graphic card can understand |
| 01:27.20 | teilzeitstudent | kdrine? |
| 01:27.22 | Venemo | lcukn900: still he should have improved HAM instead |
| 01:27.26 | lcukn900 | venemo and frankly its GOOD to see |
| 01:27.30 | luke-jr | jacekowski: 3D is a superset of 2D for the most part |
| 01:27.30 | teilzeitstudent | kdrive* |
| 01:27.37 | lcukn900 | venemo it can still help improve ham |
| 01:27.43 | Venemo | lcukn900: yeah |
| 01:27.50 | luke-jr | teilzeitstudent: kdrive is a "small" X server |
| 01:27.55 | lcukn900 | because it does show that its feasible to make a fast one |
| 01:28.04 | jacekowski | luke-jr: kdrive is old xfree86 |
| 01:28.05 | lcukn900 | ie to see where slack is |
| 01:28.07 | Venemo | lcukn900: anyways, multithreading would allow one to use the GUI while loading... it would provide a much snappier feeling |
| 01:28.16 | jacekowski | luke-jr: before licensing issues created Xorg |
| 01:28.27 | luke-jr | jacekowski: then why does xorg-server have IUSE=kdrive ? |
| 01:28.34 | Venemo | lcukn900: instead of having to stare at the "please wait" dialog |
| 01:28.34 | lcukn900 | vnemo more deeply intrusive than streamlining the actions |
| 01:28.41 | lcukn900 | i agree |
| 01:28.41 | jacekowski | luke-jr: that's gentoo stuff |
| 01:28.52 | luke-jr | jacekowski: which is just symbolic representation of upstrea |
| 01:28.52 | jacekowski | luke-jr: because some packages depend on xorg-server |
| 01:29.04 | lcukn900 | the fapman advantage is like desktop install batch job |
| 01:29.17 | Venemo | lcukn900: of course, multithreading is a two-bladed weapon... it doesn't spare us from having to optimize the rest of the app |
| 01:29.25 | lcukn900 | so you dont see please wait until the end |
| 01:29.30 | jacekowski | anyways |
| 01:29.36 | Venemo | lcukn900: yeah, also very good idea |
| 01:29.40 | lcukn900 | did you know ham has a batch job mode... |
| 01:29.41 | jacekowski | i got lost |
| 01:29.45 | jacekowski | what is the problem |
| 01:30.07 | lcukn900 | implemented for restore operation. |
| 01:30.10 | jacekowski | HAM is slow |
| 01:30.12 | luke-jr | wonders when/if people will begin to optimize foreach loops with multithreading |
| 01:30.23 | lcukn900 | but it should be feasible to use same mechanism |
| 01:30.26 | luke-jr | no reason each element can't have its own thread, in theory :P |
| 01:30.32 | jacekowski | and well, HAM should be fixed |
| 01:30.38 | jacekowski | luke-jr: wasting of cpu cycles |
| 01:30.45 | microlith | luke-jr: if and only if the overhead for thread creation/destruction is worth it, which is unlikely in most cases |
| 01:30.48 | lcukn900 | jace ham is overworked |
| 01:30.49 | jacekowski | luke-jr: unless you have multicore cpu |
| 01:30.50 | MohammadAG | in theory, a wrapper can help |
| 01:31.02 | MohammadAG | i.e, make apt-worker use apt-get |
| 01:31.10 | lcukn900 | it worked well previously with less data |
| 01:31.23 | jacekowski | lcukn900: aptitude works without any problems |
| 01:31.35 | teilzeitstudent | errrr.. what was it then.... some way for accessing hardware directly without going through extra software layers. like wine vs. native windows |
| 01:31.42 | jacekowski | cydia on iphone works faster |
| 01:31.43 | MohammadAG | aptitude is a direct frontend for apt |
| 01:31.45 | jacekowski | and it's slower cpu |
| 01:31.50 | jacekowski | MohammadAG: it's not |
| 01:31.52 | lcukn900 | jace 1 big problem, its not the standard app manager. |
| 01:31.59 | MohammadAG | jacekowski, it doesn't use apt-worker |
| 01:32.01 | teilzeitstudent | same reason why ATI took years to support fancy xdamage stuff |
| 01:32.17 | MohammadAG | btw |
| 01:32.19 | lcukn900 | we already know faster versions are available |
| 01:32.20 | jacekowski | teilzeitstudent: DRM |
| 01:32.22 | lcukn900 | fapman |
| 01:32.34 | MohammadAG | isn't there a way to remove compression on debs? |
| 01:32.35 | lcukn900 | but thats not the point of this discussion :p |
| 01:32.43 | MohammadAG | would make dl slower, but unpacking much faster |
| 01:32.57 | jacekowski | teilzeitstudent: but DRM only works if you are rendering stuff on local hardware |
| 01:33.21 | lcukn900 | mohammadag no no no |
| 01:33.21 | *** join/#maemo ohwhyme2 (~ohwhyme@81-178-196-113.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 01:33.21 | jacekowski | teilzeitstudent: otherwise it will be packed into xproto and sent via network wherever you display |
| 01:33.29 | lcukn900 | faster apt-worker using less layers maybe |
| 01:33.31 | jacekowski | teilzeitstudent: you will still get 3d acceleration, but with higher cpu usage |
| 01:33.36 | Venemo | nah, okay... seems that the Maemo 5 SDK works on Fedora without issue |
| 01:33.38 | luke-jr | microlith: that's a practical problem :P |
| 01:33.38 | jacekowski | well, 1st problem |
| 01:33.44 | lcukn900 | but dont expect people ln mobile to download more data |
| 01:33.53 | jacekowski | why is HAM downloading updates every time i open it |
| 01:34.01 | jacekowski | even though it's downloading updates in background |
| 01:34.04 | MohammadAG | using the desktop icon? |
| 01:34.06 | lcukn900 | you tell me |
| 01:34.15 | MohammadAG | when starting it from terminal it does that |
| 01:34.17 | MohammadAG | for some reason |
| 01:34.18 | luke-jr | teilzeitstudent: WINE is faster than native Windows of course |
| 01:34.31 | jacekowski | luke-jr: when did that happen? |
| 01:34.37 | luke-jr | jacekowski: it's nothing new |
| 01:34.45 | teilzeitstudent | yea. thats the point. before using some kernel paramters, pretty much everything in scratchbox/MADDE was using my CPU to translate stuff into whatever my hardware uses. With those kernel params, everything ran sorta native. |
| 01:34.54 | Venemo | MohammadAG: unpacking speed isn't the issue |
| 01:34.55 | teilzeitstudent | luke-jr, of course it does. |
| 01:35.08 | luke-jr | teilzeitstudent: your x86 CPU can never run ARM binaries natively |
| 01:35.09 | jacekowski | luke-jr: that's new to me |
| 01:35.20 | luke-jr | jacekowski: WINE is a better implementation of the APIs |
| 01:35.20 | jacekowski | luke-jr: crusoe can |
| 01:35.29 | microlith | lol, crusoe |
| 01:35.30 | luke-jr | jacekowski: I said *his* x86 CPU |
| 01:35.30 | jacekowski | luke-jr: using linux apis |
| 01:35.36 | teilzeitstudent | :< |
| 01:35.38 | Venemo | IMO, HAM should agressively cache everything |
| 01:35.42 | rtyler | anybody using pygame on the n900? |
| 01:35.48 | jacekowski | luke-jr: you add additional layer of incompatible apis |
| 01:35.52 | jacekowski | luke-jr: that has to be slower |
| 01:35.56 | pyther | Holy Hell |
| 01:35.56 | *** join/#maemo rcampbell (~ryan@S01060013103d5208.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 01:36.01 | Venemo | it should update less, and allow the user to browse the repo while updating |
| 01:36.01 | lcukn900 | venemo thats not always right either |
| 01:36.04 | Venemo | that's all |
| 01:36.19 | lcukn900 | allowing to browse whilst perhaps |
| 01:36.24 | jacekowski | luke-jr: and according to benchmarks on wine website it is slower except when app is doing heavy number crunching and not calling many APIs |
| 01:36.29 | pyther | :( |
| 01:36.34 | lcukn900 | but when user opens ham it expects to get latest |
| 01:36.35 | luke-jr | jacekowski: you forget Windows' own implementation is on top of their native stuff |
| 01:36.41 | Venemo | lcukn900: yes. |
| 01:36.49 | jacekowski | luke-jr: it isn't |
| 01:36.51 | lcukn900 | perhaps we need to review versions sent from maemo again |
| 01:36.54 | luke-jr | jacekowski: all modern Windows is based on NT, which had its own native APIs |
| 01:37.02 | luke-jr | the Win32 API was added in a WINE-like fashon later |
| 01:37.05 | lcukn900 | do we still offer all versions of all packages |
| 01:37.08 | jacekowski | luke-jr: have you seen their kernel? |
| 01:37.12 | Venemo | anyways, I'll go and sleep now, so good evening guys |
| 01:37.19 | luke-jr | jacekowski: these APIs aren't in the Windows kernel IIRC |
| 01:37.20 | jacekowski | luke-jr: i mean source |
| 01:37.23 | Venemo | thanks for the help with scratchbox |
| 01:37.26 | lcukn900 | maybe just tips and used |
| 01:37.29 | luke-jr | it's in kernel32.dll and such |
| 01:37.35 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@40.84-48-217.nextgentel.com) |
| 01:37.39 | luke-jr | which wraps the native stuff |
| 01:37.40 | pyther | Yippy I compiled a static version of mplayer that works on my N900! |
| 01:37.42 | lcukn900 | venemo use ham with just extras |
| 01:37.50 | lcukn900 | its much faster |
| 01:37.56 | lcukn900 | than with devel too |
| 01:38.05 | jacekowski | luke-jr: google for windows research kernel |
| 01:38.20 | jacekowski | luke-jr: it's old windows xp kernel but it can give you idea how the stuff is done |
| 01:38.21 | lcukn900 | pyther well dine |
| 01:38.23 | lcukn900 | donde |
| 01:38.26 | lcukn900 | done |
| 01:38.46 | pyther | Now it would be cool to compile a version that can do video, but I have a feeling that would be a lot of patch work |
| 01:38.56 | t_s_o | hrmf, seems someone is pushing N900 qt programs to the N8x0 repo for some reason |
| 01:38.57 | lcukn900 | you spent time hacking at that! did your one movie work? |
| 01:38.58 | jacekowski | luke-jr: there is no NT api anywhere |
| 01:39.05 | lcukn900 | lol |
| 01:39.25 | lcukn900 | jace 2001ish there was a winnt leak afaik |
| 01:39.31 | pyther | lcukn900: no I can listen to iheartradio without the flash web page! (that took over 5 minutes to load) |
| 01:39.34 | lcukn900 | i read it on slashdot |
| 01:39.49 | lcukn900 | awww pyther bet you feel proud! |
| 01:39.50 | jacekowski | http://www.microsoft.com/resources/sharedsource/windowsacademic/researchkernelkit.mspx |
| 01:40.02 | lcukn900 | fancy offering a patch to sampo? |
| 01:40.10 | lcukn900 | or is it not fully working yet? |
| 01:40.17 | jacekowski | if you are at uni that microsoft likes or you know how to google you can get windows kernel and assisting libraries |
| 01:40.20 | jacekowski | as source |
| 01:40.22 | jacekowski | old version of it |
| 01:40.34 | jacekowski | ~ winxp sp1 |
| 01:42.10 | Venemo | where are the icons files stored (apart from /usr/share/pixmaps) ? |
| 01:42.26 | luke-jr | jacekowski: Sony used it for their rootkit IIRC |
| 01:42.29 | MohammadAG | the motherload of shit I can't understand, /usr/share/icons |
| 01:42.30 | lcukn900 | /usr/share/icons |
| 01:42.45 | SpeedEvil | pyther: why? There is mplayer in exrtas |
| 01:42.49 | teilzeitstudent | ? |
| 01:42.52 | jacekowski | you don't really need kernel source to make a rootkit |
| 01:42.52 | teilzeitstudent | . |
| 01:42.58 | *** part/#maemo ziplock (~zip1ock@unaffiliated/ziplock) |
| 01:43.02 | lcukn900 | speedevil new tip of git |
| 01:43.08 | lcukn900 | for a new feature |
| 01:43.08 | jacekowski | you just need driver development kit |
| 01:43.11 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 01:43.22 | jacekowski | well, depends on rootkit |
| 01:43.25 | *** join/#maemo Aranel (~Aranel@unaffiliated/aranel) |
| 01:43.27 | *** join/#maemo Mr_Nobu (~MonkeyPuz@92.25.193.107) |
| 01:43.31 | pyther | SpeedEvil: yes, but is really old and doesn't support rtmp streams or piping from rtmpdump |
| 01:43.32 | jacekowski | sony went driver way iirc |
| 01:43.45 | SpeedEvil | pyther: Oook. Interesting. |
| 01:43.56 | psycho_oreos | sony = piece of shit |
| 01:44.08 | jacekowski | ekhm |
| 01:44.11 | jacekowski | i have sony laptop |
| 01:44.18 | jacekowski | and it's so far the best laptop i had |
| 01:44.30 | jacekowski | in terms of reliability and abuse taken |
| 01:44.44 | SpeedEvil | http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-1252240/The-food-won-war-The-weird-wonderful-ration-book-dishes-helped-Britain-victory.html |
| 01:44.45 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 01:44.46 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 01:44.53 | psycho_oreos | hopefully one day you'll be burned by their drm-lacing techniques |
| 01:45.00 | SpeedEvil | http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/23/toughbook-tiger-elephant-technology-personal-test.html |
| 01:45.01 | SpeedEvil | that |
| 01:45.02 | t_s_o | silly question from me perhaps, but have there been any plans to get qt 4.6 or newer onto diablo? |
| 01:45.08 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: |
| 01:45.28 | lcukn900 | t_s_o which verysion is there now? |
| 01:45.33 | jacekowski | but toughbook costs 5x more |
| 01:45.35 | t_s_o | 4.5, iirc |
| 01:45.41 | jacekowski | it's like 3-5k |
| 01:45.42 | lcukn900 | and did you follow the laest ssu tests? |
| 01:45.47 | t_s_o | yep |
| 01:45.53 | Venemo | goodbye |
| 01:46.00 | lcukn900 | :) good to see them |
| 01:46.06 | lcukn900 | damn gnite venemo |
| 01:46.14 | t_s_o | i dont think the community ssu touches on qt availability |
| 01:46.20 | lcukn900 | likes seeing venemos useful posts |
| 01:46.28 | lcukn900 | no tso |
| 01:47.13 | teilzeitstudent | errr. I was talking, among other things, about vdso. without that, my CPU was at 50% at *all* virtual guest things used the cpu at 100% just to make a click. with that, everything was at 1% |
| 01:47.23 | lcukn900 | but if someone got it working (latest qt) i dont see why it couldnt be tried? |
| 01:47.37 | t_s_o | reason i am asking was that there was at least on thread on talk that gave the impression that the reason the dev of a program didnt look into n8x0 support was because he was using qt 4.6 |
| 01:47.54 | teilzeitstudent | missing a ; there and a "at" too much. |
| 01:47.59 | jacekowski | teilzeitstudent: vdso is just a way how syscalls are called |
| 01:48.12 | lcukn900 | is there a defining list of what changedc in what qt version? |
| 01:48.23 | pyther | Now the 100% question if I build mplayer normally will it play videos :P |
| 01:48.29 | lcukn900 | because i expect to write qt stuff normallly and most should work? |
| 01:48.29 | jacekowski | teilzeitstudent: and without vdso calls are made safe always working slow int 0x80 way |
| 01:48.33 | pyther | s/100%/$100 |
| 01:48.43 | jacekowski | teilzeitstudent: with vdso syscalls are made sysenter/sysexit way |
| 01:49.24 | lcukn900 | tso in some cases it should be possible all the qt4.5 apps dont just stop working and are locked into one version |
| 01:49.35 | lcukn900 | so there is some compatability overlap surely |
| 01:50.47 | lcukn900 | i recall some great looking qt apps from n8x0 - qtablet |
| 01:50.54 | lcukn900 | shopper even! |
| 01:51.06 | lcukn900 | there was weather doofers |
| 01:51.22 | t_s_o | i see the n900 have you in its grip |
| 01:51.28 | *** join/#maemo rodarvus_ (~rodarvus@187.112.250.115) |
| 01:53.15 | *** join/#maemo Aranel (~Aranel@unaffiliated/aranel) |
| 01:53.21 | t_s_o | ugh, sorry, that was uncalled for |
| 01:55.42 | lcukn900 | t_s_o yes it was, but true all the same i need to get my 810 runnig |
| 01:55.56 | lcukn900 | :) |
| 01:56.59 | lcukn900 | t_s_o which app is it that needs later qt? |
| 01:57.12 | lcukn900 | and have you looked at building it in 4.5 |
| 01:58.36 | t_s_o | sorry, not much of a dev, mostly just wondering as there are some project threads on talk that would have been interesting to have variants of on the 800 series |
| 01:59.49 | t_s_o | still, even if the latest qt is available, the dev responsible for the app in question may not have a n8x0 to test on anyways |
| 02:00.15 | lcukn900 | thats where you come in handy :) |
| 02:00.43 | lcukn900 | it would be great to have a datapoint "oh it works on my 800" |
| 02:00.54 | lcukn900 | btw have you installed telescope? |
| 02:01.05 | lcukn900 | does it work as well as i have seen it |
| 02:01.26 | t_s_o | i would say so yes |
| 02:02.30 | t_s_o | now that it has launcher integrated, being able browse installed programs by page rather then the "eternal" scroll is nice |
| 02:03.13 | lcukn900 | heh nice |
| 02:03.26 | lcukn900 | tells tracy to order charger |
| 02:03.30 | t_s_o | i wonder if the main issue with n800 "ports" would be the ui |
| 02:03.46 | *** join/#maemo __a (~albert@c-5e4c72d5.06-180-6e6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 02:03.47 | lcukn900 | in the morning shes sleeping off lots of wine lol |
| 02:06.49 | lcukn900 | speaking of sleeping i am vanishing. i spent today with a cotton wad in ear and feeling dizzy at wedding so sitting now has been peaceful but i must doze |
| 02:06.51 | lcukn900 | gnite |
| 02:07.54 | MohammadAG | night :) |
| 02:08.15 | *** join/#maemo shpaq (~shpaq@gentoo/user/shpaq) |
| 02:24.35 | *** join/#maemo g55 (~g55@rgnb-5d87cc3d.pool.mediaWays.net) |
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| 02:32.02 | pyther | Hmm mplayer works pretty well on the N900 without any patches, from a quick test anyways, probably just needs a patch to prevent the screen from locking |
| 02:33.59 | *** join/#maemo rcg1 (~rcg@g230048040.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 02:34.02 | SpeedEvil | Hmm |
| 02:34.16 | SpeedEvil | I wonder if the latest one will play malformed flv |
| 02:34.41 | pyther | SpeedEvil: you have a link to a malformed flv? I can test it for you? |
| 02:34.48 | SpeedEvil | hangon |
| 02:39.07 | *** join/#maemo Funnyface (~user5330@136.80-202-97.nextgentel.com) |
| 02:39.49 | *** join/#maemo Mr_Nobu (~MonkeyPuz@92.25.193.107) |
| 02:39.50 | pyther | SpeedEvil: I'm hanging :P |
| 02:40.13 | *** join/#maemo n0mis (~simon@sign-4db6a782.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 02:40.47 | SpeedEvil | meh. |
| 02:40.54 | SpeedEvil | I can't find one I have the rights to. |
| 02:41.01 | SpeedEvil | Or approval for, so I'd better not. |
| 02:41.10 | SpeedEvil | to distribute |
| 02:41.27 | pyther | ahh ok, well if you see me on feel free to ask me to test it later |
| 02:41.32 | SpeedEvil | I can just compile it in my chroot - I'ver got ffmpeg built in there |
| 02:41.41 | SpeedEvil | so mplayer shouldn't be too hard |
| 02:41.55 | pyther | SpeedEvil: I took the latest svn snapshot and it compiled without a hitch |
| 02:42.03 | pyther | I used --disable-gui |
| 02:42.22 | SpeedEvil | MPlayer SVN-r31303-snapshot-4.3.3 (C) 2000-2010 MPlayer Team |
| 02:42.27 | SpeedEvil | I have - and it doesn't work. |
| 02:42.33 | SpeedEvil | I should get latest, and redo. |
| 02:43.08 | pyther | MPlayer SVN-r32027-4.2.1 (C) 2000-2010 MPlayer Team |
| 02:43.08 | SpeedEvil | I also want to get a transcoding flash proxy up and running. |
| 02:43.24 | SpeedEvil | That is - n900 flash requests a video. |
| 02:43.24 | ieatlint | http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/FLV/ might have one |
| 02:43.53 | pyther | Do you know if pulse audio on maemo has network support? |
| 02:44.07 | SpeedEvil | rtmpsomething on the phone notices this stream request, and relays it to a server. The serrver transcodes to a smaller bandwidth version, and sends to the phone. |
| 02:44.24 | SpeedEvil | And flash 'just works' |
| 02:44.44 | SpeedEvil | And yes, this is tricky. |
| 02:45.44 | SpeedEvil | Of course, the analogous process, but with mplayer popping up when flash is strarted, for when irt's not constrained by bandwidth |
| 02:50.11 | *** join/#maemo yrgd (~yrgd@c-98-235-44-106.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 02:53.02 | *** join/#maemo user_ (~user@adsl-90-54-118.mob.bellsouth.net) |
| 02:53.07 | user_ | hello |
| 02:53.23 | knackers | lo |
| 02:53.41 | knackers | anyone on N900 |
| 02:56.37 | *** join/#maemo n900evil (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 02:56.44 | luke-jr | knackers: everyone? |
| 02:56.48 | *** join/#maemo acidjazz (~acidjazz@70.86.36.250) |
| 02:56.50 | n900evil | yes |
| 02:57.39 | knackers | word |
| 02:57.48 | knackers | irssi here |
| 02:57.51 | luke-jr | irssi ftl |
| 02:58.24 | luke-jr | lol |
| 02:58.27 | SpeedEvil | xchat wfm |
| 02:58.48 | luke-jr | Quassel ftw |
| 02:59.08 | *** join/#maemo otep (~otep@AP-203.167.31.158.sysads.com) |
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| 03:30.40 | Macer | ok |
| 03:30.46 | Macer | i am a little confused with this facebrick thing |
| 03:30.48 | Macer | does it actually work? |
| 03:31.04 | *** join/#maemo Gh0sty (~ghosty@ip-83-134-176-171.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 03:31.41 | Macer | i keep getting unauthorized source ip address or some crap |
| 03:39.47 | Macer | well. another letdown. was hoping there was a fb client but this doesn't seem to work |
| 03:41.49 | Macer | i'm curious if m5 is actually moving stuff into normal repos anymore or is it all staying in dev? |
| 03:43.16 | *** join/#maemo roue (~roue@24-179-221-253.dhcp.dlth.mn.charter.com) |
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| 04:03.05 | Macer | guess facebrick is broken. blah. |
| 04:04.07 | *** join/#maemo Sargun (~Sargun@64.191.251.48) |
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| 04:20.28 | Macer | does this facebook widget even update? |
| 04:21.01 | Macer | maybe i shouldn't have made so much fun of the guy who was talking about nokia's timeline when he was talking about social networking :) |
| 04:21.17 | Macer | because right now this n900 totally blows for fb |
| 04:22.43 | Macer | ok let me leave it alone for an hour or so and see if this crapget with no options can update |
| 04:25.03 | obsidieth | its a bit of a battery hog anyway, i turn on email notifications and check it when i use it |
| 04:25.58 | Macer | well. i don't think it's updating |
| 04:26.11 | Macer | and facebrick won't connect to fb and gives unauthorized source ip errors |
| 04:26.16 | Macer | can't fidn a solution to that one either |
| 04:27.07 | auenf | err, wasnt facebrick still waiting to be authorized by the facebook developers? |
| 04:27.39 | Macer | hell if i know. some people say they were using it but evidently not? |
| 04:29.42 | Macer | so in order to get a widget i need to create an ovi store acct :) |
| 04:29.54 | Macer | checks to see if tmob can send him a galaxy-s |
| 04:30.52 | auenf | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=49216 |
| 04:32.01 | Macer | i was looking there |
| 04:32.11 | auenf | http://maemo.org/news//planet-maemo/category/feed:4dc3eb30b1706bbe938a07a9c65b46e8/ |
| 04:33.19 | Macer | wow. now that looks nice |
| 04:34.07 | Macer | but that still doesn't explain why facebrick doesn't seem to be working |
| 04:34.14 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 04:34.17 | Macer | i'm still reading that first thread seeing if i missed something |
| 04:35.22 | Macer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=49216&page=62 |
| 04:35.34 | *** join/#maemo MiXu- (~mikko.mat@dsl-trebrasgw2-ff2ffb00-26.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 04:36.10 | Macer | "Error loading newsfeeds: 5 Unauthorized source IP Address" |
| 04:42.00 | *** join/#maemo MiXu- (~mikko.mat@dsl-trebrasgw2-ff2ffb00-26.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 04:44.36 | *** join/#maemo acidjazz (acidjazz@notchill.com) |
| 04:45.43 | *** join/#maemo Finnish (~urkki@212-146-42-161.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 04:50.03 | Macer | ok. i give up. :) |
| 04:50.29 | Macer | this fb widget isn't updating |
| 04:50.40 | Macer | there is no fb client that seems to work |
| 04:50.54 | luke-jr | besides the browser? |
| 04:51.03 | Macer | that works like shit too over 3G ;) |
| 04:51.21 | luke-jr | well, Facebook is crap. |
| 04:51.23 | luke-jr | what do you expect? |
| 04:51.31 | Macer | well. android clients work ;) |
| 04:51.37 | Macer | as do the widgets |
| 04:51.40 | Macer | heh |
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| 04:52.40 | Macer | regardless of if it's crap or not. there are millions of people on it and nokia (like always?) will be a year late and a buck short |
| 04:52.54 | Macer | by the time meego gets anywhere android will have about what? 3 years on it? |
| 04:53.32 | Macer | while they try to stop-gap their dwindling market share with age old symbian.. now with qt |
| 04:54.01 | luke-jr | MeeGo doesn't compete with Android |
| 04:54.10 | Macer | obviously |
| 04:54.58 | Macer | nokia should just suck it up and just jump on the android bandwagon so they can sell some phones :) |
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| 05:08.23 | lpotter | not |
| 05:08.41 | lpotter | you think android sells more phones than nokia? |
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| 05:13.06 | zash | hahaha |
| 05:17.27 | Macer | not yet ;) |
| 05:17.50 | Macer | all i can do is stare at a graph and watch the nokia line steadily decline |
| 05:18.10 | Macer | anyways. on a brighter note. the fb pic sharing works like a champ |
| 05:18.38 | Macer | and there is one thing that the n900 can do that i love. the video chatting over skype and gtalk :) |
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| 05:38.28 | luke-jr | Macer: apparently the Skype part only works with Windows |
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| 05:47.25 | microlith | skype can do audio to macs and linux |
| 05:47.32 | microlith | video only works with Windows, apparently |
| 05:47.36 | luke-jr | microlith: but audio is useless |
| 05:47.46 | microlith | audio is useless? |
| 05:47.48 | luke-jr | Maemo can do audio to anything |
| 05:47.48 | microlith | maybe if you're deaf |
| 05:47.52 | luke-jr | no need for skype crap |
| 05:48.07 | microlith | worked great for me when I was in Japan |
| 05:48.17 | microlith | much better than paying $2/min |
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| 06:53.49 | RST38h | <yawn> |
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| 06:59.46 | rtyler | RST38h: you forgot to close your tag there |
| 07:00.19 | mortini | rtyler: or it's just a really long yawn. |
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| 07:30.19 | MNZ | morning folks! |
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| 07:30.26 | MNZ | ~botsnack |
| 07:30.26 | infobot | MNZ: aw, gee |
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| 07:41.39 | marcus_ | Heya guys. Is it possible to somehow get the list of online contacts on the n900? I am trying to create a notification system for when somebody logs in to IMs (Skype etc) |
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| 08:02.47 | MNZ | marcus_, the whole IM system in maemo is based on telepathy (the software, not actual telepathy..), so go look at their api |
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| 08:03.26 | marcus_ | I will look at it, thanks! |
| 08:03.31 | MNZ | marcus_, http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/ there probably is some way to subscribe to events |
| 08:03.52 | Macer | microlith: is there seriously a reason for phone companies to charge that much anymore? :) |
| 08:04.04 | Macer | i mean are they still paying for those copper cables they laid out like 100 years ago? |
| 08:04.55 | SwedeMike | maintenance still costs. |
| 08:05.15 | MNZ | I have a feeling data plans are so costly only because if they are not then everyone would use IM and voip instead of actually making calls.... |
| 08:05.15 | Macer | SwedeMike: yeah i suppose but costs $2/min? :) |
| 08:05.38 | Macer | people do use IM and voip instead of actualy making calls heh |
| 08:05.46 | SwedeMike | MNZ: how much are you paying? It varies a lot from market to market. |
| 08:05.48 | Macer | i know i got my mins down to the least i could and just use my skype calling |
| 08:06.44 | MNZ | you guys are lucky.... out here (egypt) data plans are pretty costly |
| 08:07.10 | SwedeMike | MNZ: that's most likely a political/regulatory problem than anything else. |
| 08:07.14 | Macer | MNZ: because the internet is run by satan and us godless pigs are in line with the falling star |
| 08:07.32 | MNZ | believe it or not, DSL is pretty well priced |
| 08:07.38 | MNZ | nothing political, it's just business |
| 08:07.52 | Macer | well. egypt isn't what it used to be :) |
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| 08:33.38 | DocScrutinizer | Macer: $2/min?? I'd prefer Thuraya then, or Iridium, or Inmarsat. Probably all of those offer better plans |
| 08:33.58 | RST38h | inmarsat is $7/min |
| 08:34.11 | DocScrutinizer | duh really? |
| 08:34.38 | DocScrutinizer | thought they'd compete with the ~1$ of the other two |
| 08:34.51 | RST38h | maybe things changed, dunno |
| 08:35.58 | Dassu | but according to the pattern, rules or as we call them laws of nature |
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| 08:38.26 | Venemo | hey guys |
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| 08:38.51 | Venemo | could anyone help me with a strange error message? |
| 08:38.54 | Venemo | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=800956#post800956 |
| 08:40.55 | DocScrutinizer | Thuraya ECO-SIM ~0.50EUR/min aiui |
| 08:40.57 | Dassu | you should try to download the package manually and then using dpkg to install it. That way you get more specific error msg |
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| 08:42.05 | Venemo | Dassu: Unpacking replacement sticky-notes ... Errors were encountered while processing: /home/user/MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache/qt4-homescreen-loader_4.6.2~git20100421-0maemo1_armel.deb |
| 08:42.19 | Venemo | Dassu: so the error is not even with Sticky Notes... |
| 08:44.25 | th3hate | Venemo, remove pelota widget |
| 08:44.36 | th3hate | if you have it installed |
| 08:44.50 | Venemo | th3hate: it is not my error message |
| 08:45.06 | Venemo | th3hate: I'm just a dev trying to help a user |
| 08:45.18 | Venemo | th3hate: why pelota widget? what is it? |
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| 08:49.29 | th3hate | Venemo, it uses a different version of qt4-homescreen-loader |
| 08:49.52 | th3hate | so it conflicts with sticky notes |
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| 08:51.15 | Venemo | th3hate: what version? There is only one, as far as I can tell |
| 08:51.25 | Venemo | th3hate: http://maemo.org/packages/view/qt4-homescreen-loader/ |
| 08:51.29 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: http://www.teltarif.de/i/sat-telefon.html?page=6 |
| 08:51.45 | DocScrutinizer | the table isn't too much German ;-) |
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| 09:21.18 | tobis87 | Venemo: You don't need to have use vdso32=0 on the kernel command line, there is is this nice kernel module availible witch does this while linux is running: Makefile http://pastebin.com/HXVJ3uXB vdso32_disable.c http://pastebin.com/pSvtf0m9 |
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| 09:25.57 | Venemo | tobis87: thanks! :) |
| 09:26.59 | Venemo | tobis87: hmmm. |
| 09:27.02 | Venemo | #ifndef CONFIG_X86_64 #error "Don't even try to compile me.. use /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled instead" #endif |
| 09:27.32 | tobis87 | didn't you say that you run Fedora 13 x86_64? |
| 09:27.44 | tobis87 | if NOT defined |
| 09:28.12 | Venemo | tobis87: aah... okay :) |
| 09:28.32 | Venemo | tobis87: and why is this better than editing the kernel line? |
| 09:28.50 | tobis87 | just make sure that you have System.map- in /boot |
| 09:29.06 | Venemo | tobis87: I guess that I would have to recompile this for every new kernel update |
| 09:29.14 | tobis87 | i don't know how it is called in fedora, |
| 09:30.02 | tobis87 | yes, as every kernel module... i have a costum kernel, so i don't know... but you can add it to dkms |
| 09:31.11 | tobis87 | Vdso -> http://www.trilithium.com/johan/2005/08/linux-gate/ |
| 09:32.40 | tobis87 | i would only disable it, if I would run scratchbox |
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| 09:44.37 | senge | i am considering buying nika n9000 and confused wether nokia is going to supoort maemo and also since andoird seems to be more prevalent |
| 09:44.47 | senge | so, which should be better maemo or android? |
| 09:45.12 | SwedeMike | senge: that's very subjective. |
| 09:45.34 | SwedeMike | senge: n900 does things android doesn't, and the other way around. |
| 09:45.43 | psycho_oreos | and you're asking in a maemo biased channel, there's a very high chance people would suggest maemo over android |
| 09:46.17 | senge | SwedeMike: well, i am just a linux geek and not much into games but i would like to use many applications!! |
| 09:46.34 | Corsac | senge: nokia won't switch to android if that's what you ask :) |
| 09:46.36 | senge | psycho_oreos: hehehe!! :) |
| 09:46.41 | Corsac | senge: what will be relevant is meego anyway |
| 09:46.48 | psycho_oreos | if hacking is your thing maemo is a little more open than android |
| 09:46.53 | SwedeMike | senge: well, if you want a linux based phone where you can actually use the linux, then n900 is the right choice. |
| 09:47.12 | senge | Corsac: no, i jusy want to make sure i get the best fr=or my money since nokia n900 and htc wildfire have a lot of price difference!! |
| 09:47.33 | yoyo | hi whether they are big delays in setting up a public key in the garage? I try to send my first program and "Permision denied": / |
| 09:47.45 | SwedeMike | the n900 is quite cheap nowadays, almost half price from launch. |
| 09:47.50 | SwedeMike | saw it for 330EUR the other day |
| 09:47.52 | Corsac | I wouldnt recommend buying the n900 right now, just wait for n9 (or so) |
| 09:47.54 | SwedeMike | I paid 600 for it. |
| 09:48.00 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@80.90.124.130) |
| 09:48.07 | Corsac | I paid it 200⬠with 1y contract |
| 09:48.27 | SwedeMike | I don't do contracts, they're just payment plans. |
| 09:48.35 | psycho_oreos | hardware spec you can't compare n900 over wildfire, n900 has got more RAM (albeit as swap) for instance and the ARM cpu can be overclocked |
| 09:48.48 | senge | ohh. N9 seems interesting. didnt know about this one!! |
| 09:48.54 | psycho_oreos | and it comes with 32GB as standard |
| 09:49.13 | Corsac | senge: well, be prepared to wait for few months though |
| 09:49.14 | psycho_oreos | N9 isn't even out yet |
| 09:49.20 | senge | psycho_oreos: thr is around 200$ difference between the two |
| 09:49.36 | senge | psycho_oreos: ahh yes gud point . 32 GB |
| 09:49.37 | Corsac | if it's announced at meego conference like n900 was at maemo summit, it could be available around christmas |
| 09:49.49 | tobis87 | senge: with maemo you have root access, and you are able to even compile your own kernel modules and use them. |
| 09:49.50 | psycho_oreos | senge, and meego will be based on woeful rpm base, unlike maemo's aging deb base |
| 09:51.26 | senge | psycho_oreos: thanks guys!! i think i can wait till christmas!! :) |
| 09:51.46 | tobis87 | senge: hardware crypto acceleration, is the stuff i currently working on... encryption on a mobile device! just don't try to execpt much use as a telephone from it, it was not designed to be one... |
| 09:51.54 | slonopotamus | psycho_oreos, how aging rpm is better than aging deb? |
| 09:52.11 | thresh | rpm ftw |
| 09:52.23 | psycho_oreos | senge, I still highly back n900 it maybe old and soon outdated but it is still very hacker friendly compared to android |
| 09:52.40 | psycho_oreos | slonopotamus, you misread me I prefer deb over rpm |
| 09:52.47 | senge | psycho_oreos: ok!! so, its really geeky! ;) :) |
| 09:53.02 | senge | and anyways it will take ages to reach india! :D |
| 09:53.23 | psycho_oreos | senge, try framebuffer console splash on boot which I bet no android can do without some third party ROM |
| 09:53.32 | slonopotamus | (both suck, actually) |
| 09:53.37 | slonopotamus | :P |
| 09:53.37 | senge | lol! n9000 was releassed two months ago!! |
| 09:53.53 | psycho_oreos | senge, then you can also install droid, install win95, install gentoo, install meego |
| 09:54.32 | senge | psycho_oreos: awesome!! i think i will try to get nokia n9000 |
| 09:54.40 | psycho_oreos | slonopotamus, mm both suck without a valid argument, nice way to base your bias |
| 09:54.51 | senge | since it would anyways be cheaper and n9 would be way too expensive for a sutdent like me!! |
| 09:54.59 | Zucca | I've been browsing trough Maemo 5 gconfigs and found one very useful setting there: /apps/osso/xterm/encoding lets you set the encoding of your xterminal, which is useful for people who have shell account on a remote server that has locale other than UTF-8. For example a frind of mine can now irc and use scandinavic letters. :) |
| 09:55.08 | senge | psycho_oreos: g2g!! i'll ping u!! ;) :D thanks !! |
| 09:55.12 | psycho_oreos | senge, and if you're into wireless pentesting, mameo has fully supported wireless chipset that allows you to do native rfmon capability |
| 09:55.45 | Zucca | There's also a setting to add more buttons to lower bar. It it possible to add alt key there? |
| 09:56.05 | slonopotamus | Zucca, in 2010 you still have encoding other than UTF-8? no wai. |
| 09:56.35 | slonopotamus | psycho_oreos, both are overcomplicated from packager POV |
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| 09:57.09 | psycho_oreos | slonopotamus, and you would prefer what? gentoo/arch/slackware method? |
| 09:57.16 | psycho_oreos | tarballs? |
| 09:58.02 | slonopotamus | psycho_oreos, gentoo ebuilds are nice, yep :) |
| 09:58.49 | psycho_oreos | slonopotamus, maybe they are nice but too bad you're not going to get that in a phone/internet tablet |
| 09:59.08 | slonopotamus | psycho_oreos, i do have |
| 09:59.28 | Zucca | slonopotamus: No. I don't have. Few frieds of mine have. They have irc service where they connect via ssh. After login and irc session (irssi) is automatically opened/resumed. We tried to set environment there, but all shell commands are unavailable (tried with /exec from irssi). So the only way was to change maemo terminal's encoding. |
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| 09:59.51 | psycho_oreos | slonopotamus, ok apart from gentoo on n8x0 project which is still beside the point that it lacks functionality with lots of mameo binaries |
| 10:00.07 | psycho_oreos | s/mameo/maemo/ |
| 10:00.28 | slonopotamus | psycho_oreos, 'lots of maemo binaries'? only firmwares |
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| 10:00.49 | psycho_oreos | the thing is that nokia didn't roll out maemo on gentoo as standard |
| 10:01.18 | psycho_oreos | slonopotamus, firmwares and proprietary drivers, bet you haven't got phone functionality yet |
| 10:01.41 | DangerMaus | hehe |
| 10:01.44 | slonopotamus | psycho_oreos, n8x0 doesn't have phone hw |
| 10:02.22 | psycho_oreos | slonopotamus, and if you haven't been following what I said, I was referring to n900, but alas it sounds like gentoo on n900 would either be no dice or still lacks functionality |
| 10:02.58 | slonopotamus | which only means that nokia 'open' strategy ain't actually open |
| 10:03.02 | DangerMaus | someone here has it but dont know if he got all the fuctionality |
| 10:03.30 | slonopotamus | because if it was, it would be trivial to package stuff into any distro you like |
| 10:03.36 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 10:03.41 | DangerMaus | yep |
| 10:03.42 | SwedeMike | slonopotamus: correct, it's not all open. |
| 10:03.51 | psycho_oreos | nokia has their own internal issues/conflicts in ways of trying to deal with the word `open' but comparing that to say android its alot better |
| 10:03.54 | kerio | Zucca: if you're using a codepage, you're doing it wrong |
| 10:03.59 | kerio | very, very wrong |
| 10:04.56 | BCMM | i know i just joined and have no context, but seriously, android doesn't get it |
| 10:05.03 | slonopotamus | whatever |
| 10:05.05 | BCMM | especially the "no duplication of effort" thing |
| 10:05.08 | DangerMaus | :) |
| 10:05.11 | slonopotamus | returns to his code |
| 10:05.24 | kerio | android is for poor hipsters |
| 10:05.51 | psycho_oreos | alas there was an Indian student that came in here asking to compare Nokia N900 and HTC Wildfire |
| 10:06.18 | kerio | as opposed to the iphone that's for rich hipsters |
| 10:06.18 | psycho_oreos | told him to get n900, n9 isn't even out yet and n900 for now is quite hacker-friendly |
| 10:06.46 | psycho_oreos | lol iphail |
| 10:06.47 | kerio | the n900 is the phone for nerds |
| 10:07.04 | Corsac | psycho_oreos: why do you think he was the hacker type? |
| 10:07.08 | psycho_oreos | apple is for those who don't want to know what their computer is doing |
| 10:07.27 | psycho_oreos | Corsac, I didn't think he was, I just told him that n900 is more hacker-friendly |
| 10:07.28 | kerio | "ooh android is so open, here, i can root it and have a terminal" |
| 10:07.46 | Corsac | what about cyanogen stuff? |
| 10:07.53 | kerio | the iphone can do that too, but it's a third-party modification ffs |
| 10:07.59 | Corsac | might not be the rightest chan to ask though :) |
| 10:08.03 | psycho_oreos | cyanogen is an addon which still has its own limitations |
| 10:08.22 | Corsac | an âaddonâ? |
| 10:08.25 | kerio | i mean, the n900 has a system-wide kbd shortcut to launch osso-xterm |
| 10:08.36 | psycho_oreos | and rooting iphail will soon be verbotten, thank apple for counteracting DMAA |
| 10:08.37 | Corsac | isn't it a community rebuild of android sources? |
| 10:08.51 | kerio | psycho_oreos: huh? |
| 10:08.59 | *** join/#maemo sepultina (~quassel@79-141.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 10:09.02 | BCMM | kerio: there is a keyboard shortcut for xterm? |
| 10:09.02 | kerio | they don't want you to jailbreak |
| 10:09.12 | kerio | you have the device in your hand |
| 10:09.24 | kerio | gee, i wonder who will win |
| 10:09.26 | psycho_oreos | well I don't know and I don't really care about android, for what I need, n900 despite its obvious downfalls still outweighs better than its competitors |
| 10:09.44 | kerio | BCMM: ctrl+shift+x |
| 10:09.44 | psycho_oreos | kerio, apparently they will track you down if you have jailbroken iphone soon |
| 10:10.01 | BCMM | kerio: cool; is there a list of system-wide shortcuts somewhere? |
| 10:10.17 | kerio | psycho_oreos: yeah, and there was a rodent packing chocolate |
| 10:10.46 | psycho_oreos | kerio, meaning its a whole bunch of FUD? well that's what media is saying |
| 10:11.01 | psycho_oreos | but knowing apple, you can be sure they are secretive in their own ways |
| 10:11.01 | kerio | of course it's fud ._. |
| 10:11.16 | kerio | are you really believing the media? |
| 10:11.37 | psycho_oreos | no I just point and laugh at iphail users/owners |
| 10:11.38 | kerio | so far the iphone 4 is jailbreakable |
| 10:12.05 | psycho_oreos | media is just to make my day fly faster with something to point and laugh about |
| 10:12.11 | kerio | well, duh |
| 10:13.08 | kerio | i'm just saying that android is not that different |
| 10:13.18 | kerio | you're just gargling on a different cock |
| 10:13.45 | BCMM | the iphone 4 jailbreak is terrifying, since it uses a code execution vulnerability in PDF viewer |
| 10:13.53 | psycho_oreos | and I'm sure the media wasn't wrong about apple stripping a 3rd party developer's rights just because he wrote a program better than apple's own podcasting client no? I'm sure the dev made a big fuss on his blog |
| 10:14.07 | kerio | psycho_oreos: oh, sure, that's the app store |
| 10:14.09 | psycho_oreos | apparently it is |
| 10:14.22 | BCMM | (and i thought the whole reason for restricting you to a whitelist of applications was to ensure good quality) |
| 10:14.30 | kerio | i point and laugh at the developers accepting their contract |
| 10:14.37 | BCMM | (well, no i didn't, but hey) |
| 10:14.55 | psycho_oreos | even if android runs on linux kernel, it still prevents you from doing things of your own desire (such as dual/multibooting, only nexus one I heard can do it) |
| 10:15.14 | *** join/#maemo merlin1991 (~merlin199@84.114.238.170) |
| 10:15.15 | BCMM | kerio: the amazing bit is paying to develop the stuff that makes people use their platform |
| 10:15.27 | kerio | they have every right to provide you with the applications they want |
| 10:15.35 | psycho_oreos | that's apple for you, apparently there were fans behind that 3rd party app which was better decided to jailbreak their iphone just to install it |
| 10:15.50 | kerio | you, on the other hand, have every right to jailbreak it and install other stuff |
| 10:15.57 | kerio | or you know, buy a n900 |
| 10:16.01 | BCMM | kerio: i mean, a developer having to pay to write apps, when those apps are what make the platform |
| 10:16.04 | Corsac | what bother me the most about android is the link to google accounts and stuff like that |
| 10:16.13 | Venemo | kerio: I couldn't agree with you more |
| 10:16.32 | psycho_oreos | more or less applies to google android, want shell? you still need to jailbreak it |
| 10:16.33 | BCMM | kerio: i used to think apple had this straight in their head, since, unlike MS, they didn't charge extra for their desktop developement environment |
| 10:17.20 | kerio | xcode is fucking epic, or so i've been told |
| 10:18.36 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@80.90.124.130) |
| 10:18.46 | BCMM | kerio: in a good way? |
| 10:19.15 | BCMM | kerio: xcode is Apple's official IDE, right? the equivalent of Visual Studio? |
| 10:19.27 | kerio | yeah |
| 10:19.34 | kerio | in a good way |
| 10:19.39 | *** join/#maemo FireyFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) |
| 10:19.41 | kerio | it's powerful |
| 10:21.24 | BCMM | i haven't touched visual studio since having to write VB6 for school assignments, but i imagine it must be completely amazing in comparison |
| 10:22.17 | BCMM | VS has a terrible text editor, which is always a bad start |
| 10:23.26 | Venemo | Visual Studio is a very convenient IDE |
| 10:23.50 | Venemo | if you haven't used it since more than 10 years, how can you tell it has a "terrible text editor" ? |
| 10:25.06 | slonopotamus | used msvc on wednesday. it has a terrible text editor, really. |
| 10:25.26 | slonopotamus | s/vc/vs/ |
| 10:25.52 | Venemo | slonopotamus: I dunno abut vc |
| 10:26.01 | Venemo | slonopotamus: the C# editor is very good to use |
| 10:26.03 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@93.48.152.210) |
| 10:26.12 | crashanddie | msvc isn't a text editor, really |
| 10:26.16 | crashanddie | want a text editor? Open notepad |
| 10:26.23 | crashanddie | or word |
| 10:26.34 | joga | but it has an editor, where you input text |
| 10:26.47 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p4FEF5EB0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:26.49 | crashanddie | no, you input code |
| 10:26.50 | BCMM | Venemo: ok, it did then, by my standards |
| 10:26.57 | joga | :) |
| 10:26.59 | slonopotamus | Venemo, it even doesn't have error highlighting for c++. |
| 10:27.19 | BCMM | crashanddie: you edit plaintext files |
| 10:27.42 | BCMM | crashanddie: vim and emacs are text editors, and both are used mostly for inputting code |
| 10:27.59 | slonopotamus | crashanddie, notepad is crap. no regex search. |
| 10:28.15 | BCMM | notepad is crap, it doesn't support newlines properly |
| 10:28.17 | crashanddie | slonopotamus: notepad++ then |
| 10:28.56 | Venemo | slonopotamus: for C++ I use Qt Creator :) |
| 10:29.27 | crashanddie | vim for C++ |
| 10:29.27 | BCMM | i mostly use katepart-based things |
| 10:29.32 | crashanddie | well, vim for anything, really. |
| 10:29.48 | slonopotamus | Venemo, can it import vcproj files? i got ~200 of them here and converting them manually is not an option |
| 10:30.00 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 10:30.12 | BCMM | KDE has really got it right, IMHO - make one really good text editing component that can be embedded in various applications that need text editing |
| 10:30.35 | MohammadAG | likes gedit |
| 10:31.47 | BCMM | such that the IDE, the basic and advanced text editors and the LaTeX IDE all work the same way |
| 10:31.52 | slonopotamus | MohammadAG, how's hildon going? :) |
| 10:32.20 | MohammadAG | hildony |
| 10:33.10 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: booo |
| 10:33.35 | MohammadAG | slaps DocScrutinizer, hey |
| 10:34.05 | DocScrutinizer | 's too stupid to use rsync :-o |
| 10:35.42 | MohammadAG | rsync --partial --progress --rsh=ssh is what I use |
| 10:36.13 | DocScrutinizer | --rsh=ssh not an option as the port is non-standard (23) |
| 10:36.16 | DocScrutinizer | err 22 |
| 10:37.18 | BCMM | rsync uses SSH by default |
| 10:37.21 | Corsac | use --rsh="ssh -p 42" ? |
| 10:37.23 | tobis87 | i use alias rsync='rsync -r -t -p -o -g -x -v --progress -u -l -H --numeric-ids' in .bashrc |
| 10:37.26 | nid0 | -rsh="ssh -pxxxx" |
| 10:37.35 | nid0 | simples |
| 10:37.49 | merlin1991 | I installed scratchbox on unbuntu 10.04 today, and I didn't need to add the vm.mmap_min_addr = 0 to sysctl.conf |
| 10:38.05 | MohammadAG | marick kernel? |
| 10:38.10 | MohammadAG | meverick* |
| 10:38.32 | DocScrutinizer | -e "ssh -p xxxx" but anyway it delivers reasonable file list (with -v) but doesn't download a single byte of payload |
| 10:38.42 | Stskeeps | MohammadAG: did the thumb activation hack work btw? |
| 10:38.44 | Stskeeps | like, the errata |
| 10:38.50 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, --port=PORT specify double-colon alternate port number |
| 10:39.01 | DocScrutinizer | acts like the local machine already had all the files up to date |
| 10:39.11 | MohammadAG | Stskeeps, I got problems with dpkg, maemo crashed a bit, but I could chroot into 10.04 lucid |
| 10:39.26 | Stskeeps | ah |
| 10:39.42 | MohammadAG | but afaik, the kernel I used didn't have the patch you linked me to |
| 10:39.47 | MohammadAG | still got a link for it? |
| 10:40.57 | DocScrutinizer | (rsync) prolly a problem with symlinks or server rsync on remote machine, as identical cmd worked on another machine |
| 10:41.53 | DocScrutinizer | using scp now, will cope with that shit later, when transmission stalls and I need a way to resume :-S |
| 10:42.07 | *** join/#maemo mikhas (~michael@cs109108031096.pp.htv.fi) |
| 10:42.19 | MohammadAG | pokes Stskeeps |
| 10:42.40 | tobis87 | DocScrutinizer: -l, --links copy symlinks as symlinks -H, --hard-links preserve hard links -x, --one-file-system donât cross filesystem boundaries |
| 10:42.57 | MohammadAG | nvm, found it in logs :) |
| 10:43.05 | DocScrutinizer | I don't want any of these |
| 10:44.39 | tobis87 | but didn't you wrote "prolly a problem with symlinks"? |
| 10:50.42 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: (alternate port number) that's alternate port for rsyncd which doesn't apply here the cmd still using >>opening connection using: ssh -l jr bla.cloudy.de rsync --server --sender -vv foo...bar... |
| 10:52.19 | DocScrutinizer | tobis87: maybe I'm wrong with the symlink part, as it correctly lists the files, even when they are symlinks on the remote machine in fact. Anyway the remote symlinks would be rather stale on my local machine |
| 10:53.09 | tobis87 | you could also use sshfs to mount it and try rsync again? maybe a problem with ssh |
| 10:53.28 | DocScrutinizer | scp works like a charm |
| 10:53.47 | DocScrutinizer | sftp also works by now |
| 10:56.39 | *** join/#maemo Smily (Smily@89.142.27.182) |
| 10:57.43 | tobis87 | maybe a permission problem? |
| 10:57.55 | DocScrutinizer | total: matches=0 hash_hits=0 false_alarms=0 data=0 |
| 10:57.57 | DocScrutinizer | sent 20 bytes received 120749 bytes 18579.85 bytes/sec |
| 10:57.58 | DocScrutinizer | total size is 14146715468 speedup is 117138.63 |
| 10:58.20 | DocScrutinizer | after listing some 10k files |
| 10:58.21 | *** join/#maemo technomike_phone (~technomik@94-192-204-3.zone6.bethere.co.uk) |
| 10:58.29 | technomike_phone | Hey fellow maemo'ers |
| 10:58.39 | tobis87 | you're full command? |
| 10:58.44 | technomike_phone | I can't seem to make a skype video call |
| 10:58.47 | DocScrutinizer | -rwxrwSrwt 5172514 2009/02/06 05:40:49 willich/Unknown Artist - Unknown Album/21 - Unknown Artist - Track 21.mp3 |
| 10:59.06 | technomike_phone | I can't find the option to skype video call my contacts |
| 10:59.17 | technomike_phone | any ideas? |
| 10:59.18 | nid0 | have you setup your skype acct details? |
| 10:59.44 | technomike_phone | Yep. I can make and recieve skype calls and instant messages. |
| 10:59.55 | MohammadAG | the receiver has to have a webcam |
| 11:00.03 | technomike_phone | Ahhhhhhh! |
| 11:00.27 | MohammadAG | and version +4 of skype afaik |
| 11:00.32 | MohammadAG | skype for linux works too I think |
| 11:00.44 | technomike_phone | so just to confirm... its not because of kernel-power |
| 11:00.49 | DocScrutinizer | technomike_phone: afaik video calls work to windoze skype far ends only, and capability to do video shows up in skype after call established, by button 'video' enabled (talking outa my ass as I never use skype at all) |
| 11:00.53 | MohammadAG | no lol |
| 11:01.15 | MohammadAG | there should be a Skype Video Call option DocScrutinizer |
| 11:01.19 | technomike_phone | Hahaha :D |
| 11:01.30 | technomike_phone | I thought so MohammadAG |
| 11:01.37 | MohammadAG | the cam isn't the brightest thing I've seen though |
| 11:01.41 | technomike_phone | I have seen the option before |
| 11:01.44 | MohammadAG | and I usually talk at night |
| 11:01.53 | technomike_phone | agreed. whilst using the mirror app |
| 11:01.57 | tobis87 | permission should be correct, but i suspect the remote folder name could be wrong... i would really try sshfs, just to make sure it is not a rsync problem... btw, rsync over nfs does work... but it is dead slow |
| 11:01.57 | technomike_phone | I found it dark |
| 11:02.05 | *** join/#maemo avs (~avs@a88-113-5-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 11:02.20 | technomike_phone | If we had options to adjust the camera driver options |
| 11:02.32 | technomike_phone | to adjust brightness contrast etc |
| 11:02.35 | technomike_phone | then its good |
| 11:03.13 | technomike_phone | I think the darkness is because its under the dark faceplace on the n900 |
| 11:03.22 | EdLin | a question from someone who has a n810 but doesn't have a n900..... |
| 11:03.30 | EdLin | how is the n900 like as a phone? |
| 11:03.42 | nid0 | the "dark faceplate" is clear |
| 11:03.54 | technomike_phone | nid0 ah my mistake then |
| 11:04.12 | nid0 | EdLin: depends on exactly what your standards are for a phone |
| 11:04.20 | technomike_phone | Agreed |
| 11:04.27 | MohammadAG | technomike_phone, it's either the drive or the cam itself |
| 11:04.31 | MohammadAG | driver |
| 11:04.34 | technomike_phone | Yeah |
| 11:04.35 | nid0 | it makes and receives cellular calls that lets you talk to other people, while mobile, who are also using cellular phones |
| 11:04.38 | nid0 | so for me, its fine. |
| 11:04.58 | EdLin | nid0: I know it has good internet stuff, and is very open, but I'm wondering if it is reliable in the phone department for making and answering. That's all. |
| 11:04.59 | nid0 | other people however whine that its a shit phone because it cant do bullshit rarely-used stuff like per-contact ringtones. |
| 11:05.04 | DocScrutinizer | tobis87: |
| 11:05.06 | DocScrutinizer | opening connection using: ssh -p 2345 -l jr blah.cludy.de rsync --server --sender -vvlogDtprze.iLs . mp3/ |
| 11:05.07 | DocScrutinizer | receiving file list ... |
| 11:05.09 | DocScrutinizer | done |
| 11:05.10 | DocScrutinizer | delta-transmission enabled |
| 11:05.12 | DocScrutinizer | drwxrwxrwx 0 2010/08/14 10:39:42 . |
| 11:05.13 | DocScrutinizer | -rwxrwSrwt 2205118 2007/01/24 19:49:52 (Soundtrack) - Die Hard 3 - When Johnny Comes Marching Home (Original).mp3 |
| 11:05.27 | EdLin | nid0: I don't care about per-contact ringtones. |
| 11:05.53 | nid0 | if you want a phone that can make and receive phone calls, the n900 is about as excellent as almost any other mobile that's ever been made :) |
| 11:06.11 | DocScrutinizer | tobis87: then ends with just >>total: matches=0 hash_hits=0 false_alarms=0 data=0 |
| 11:06.24 | technomike_phone | It has no 3g video calls / mms picture message support / starhash operator code support (without installing extra app) / i think thats it |
| 11:06.25 | EdLin | nid0: I'm just asking because some smartphones aren't too good at that. e.g. WinMo. :) |
| 11:06.35 | technomike_phone | just things to bear in mind |
| 11:06.38 | technomike_phone | :) |
| 11:06.55 | nid0 | tbh winmo makes and receives perfectly good phone calls as well, winmo gets asstons more stick than it even remotely deserves |
| 11:07.15 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Venemo@host-94-248-205-46.kabelnet.hu) |
| 11:07.26 | EdLin | technomike_phone: well, I have a friend who's fond of texting me mms messages. What'll happen if he does that and it can't recieve them, an error? |
| 11:07.27 | Trewas | one annoying thing I have hit a couple of times making calls with n900 is that the volume key allows muting even while making a phonecall (which makes no sense whatsoever), any other nokia phone I have had doesn't |
| 11:07.47 | technomike_phone | hahahaa |
| 11:07.49 | technomike_phone | SAME |
| 11:07.51 | technomike_phone | here |
| 11:07.54 | nid0 | EdLin, for mms support youll need to install fmms, otherwise what happens depends on your carrier |
| 11:08.14 | EdLin | T-Mobile USA is my carrier.... |
| 11:08.15 | nid0 | normally if your device cant receive an mms and you get sent one, your carrier will just send you an sms with a link to a web portal where you can view the original mms |
| 11:08.19 | tobis87 | DocScrutinizer: what ends, over sshfs? |
| 11:08.34 | DocScrutinizer | rsync |
| 11:09.14 | DocScrutinizer | rsync -avvz -e "ssh -p 22345" jr@blah.cloud.de:mp3/ |
| 11:09.25 | EdLin | nid0: how well does fmms work? I don't do much mms myself, but this guy loves to send them to me. |
| 11:09.33 | MohammadAG | Stskeeps, if you're interested http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/kernels/thumb/ |
| 11:09.44 | Trewas | EdLin: at least my operator sends a normal SMS with a web link to view MMS when someone sends me an MMS message |
| 11:09.46 | MohammadAG | EdLin, better than my S60 MMS interface |
| 11:10.00 | MohammadAG | Trewas, install fmms, then bitch at your operator |
| 11:10.26 | Trewas | I installed fmms after that, nobody has sent me a MMS after that so dunno how it works ;) |
| 11:10.37 | *** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 11:10.50 | tobis87 | rsync -e "ssh -p 22345" -r foldertocopy jr@blah.cloud.de:mp3/ |
| 11:10.55 | MohammadAG | I just hate how MMS didn't work well in jordan |
| 11:11.06 | MohammadAG | at least I'm back where it works now :P |
| 11:11.09 | *** join/#maemo avs (~avs@a88-113-5-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 11:12.22 | DocScrutinizer | tobis87: err this would copy <foldertocopy> *to* the remote machine, not *from*, no? |
| 11:13.21 | MohammadAG | frals, ping |
| 11:13.31 | frals | pong |
| 11:13.40 | MohammadAG | how do I reset all fmms settings? |
| 11:14.02 | MohammadAG | particularly the APN, seems it can't autoconfigure when an APN is active |
| 11:14.04 | tobis87 | no foldertocopy will be compared with mp3 on blah.cloud.de and the missing files will be copied, i recommend to add -u ( skip files that are newer on the receiver) |
| 11:14.38 | frals | MohammadAG: gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/fmms |
| 11:14.49 | frals | MohammadAG: or just /apps/fmms/apn |
| 11:15.01 | *** join/#maemo DangerMaus (~eeeeeeeee@tuxhacker/loft306) |
| 11:15.12 | frals | MohammadAG: might leave your internet connection settings fubar, but i trust you know how to fix it ;) |
| 11:15.19 | frals | goes back to bfbc2 |
| 11:15.20 | tobis87 | oh the otherway around? |
| 11:15.24 | MohammadAG | LOL |
| 11:15.26 | kerio | mms sucks :< |
| 11:15.55 | kerio | why would someone use a mms over an email |
| 11:16.10 | *** join/#maemo TermanaN900 (~user@123-3-177-16.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 11:16.20 | frals | <sigh> |
| 11:16.20 | SpeedEvil | Because many phones do not support it as easily |
| 11:16.32 | aep | to laugh at iphone users |
| 11:16.43 | MohammadAG | iPhone users have mms :P |
| 11:16.45 | SpeedEvil | You can send pictures of drunk people with various areas exposed, with one or two buttons. |
| 11:17.01 | MohammadAG | kerio, scientific explanation ^ |
| 11:17.27 | tobis87 | i think, you just need to switch the folders rsync -e "ssh -p 22345" jr@blah.cloud.de:mp3/ foldertocopy/ |
| 11:17.55 | kerio | SpeedEvil: post them on flickr |
| 11:18.08 | kerio | even better |
| 11:18.18 | frals | kerio: its not the same |
| 11:18.41 | MohammadAG | frals, your team on bfbc2 depends on you, screw IRC!! |
| 11:18.44 | nid0 | open browser > register flickr account > upload photo > sms friend > give them web link to flickr picture > hope they have a proper browser and data connection on their phone |
| 11:18.45 | nid0 | vs |
| 11:18.50 | nid0 | mms picture to them |
| 11:18.55 | nid0 | gee which is easier |
| 11:19.04 | MohammadAG | flickr |
| 11:19.05 | MohammadAG | :P |
| 11:19.10 | frals | MohammadAG: ;p |
| 11:19.33 | MohammadAG | frals, PC gamer? |
| 11:19.50 | frals | yeah, only wnkrs play fps on console ;) |
| 11:20.03 | MohammadAG | Oi, watch it :P |
| 11:20.16 | kerio | nid0: except that you don't need to sms your friend |
| 11:20.28 | kerio | he'll watch the photo on your flickr rss feed |
| 11:20.41 | nid0 | ah ofc course he will, how silly |
| 11:20.44 | kerio | or on your facebook pace |
| 11:20.46 | kerio | page |
| 11:21.03 | kerio | page |
| 11:21.03 | nid0 | everyone on the planet has a flickr account and rss feeds setup, on their phone, for everyone they might possibly want to see pictures from |
| 11:21.07 | nid0 | its so clear now |
| 11:21.07 | kerio | and you don't need to register more than once |
| 11:21.12 | MohammadAG | lol frals, unset everything in gconf, purged fmms, configuration is still there :P |
| 11:21.34 | kerio | and sending 320x240 pictures via mms doesn't seem like a good idea to me :< |
| 11:21.43 | tobis87 | DocScrutinizer: or, rsync -avz -e "ssh -p 22345" jr@blah.cloud.de:mp3/ destination/ |
| 11:21.44 | technomike_phone | haha kerio agreed |
| 11:21.54 | frals | MohammadAG: if you mean the iap, yes, its saved under /system/osso/connectivity/IAP/something |
| 11:21.54 | kerio | nid0: no but most people have a facebook account |
| 11:21.59 | *** join/#maemo hannesw_ (~hannes@80-121-101-1.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 11:22.03 | MohammadAG | LOL frals |
| 11:22.03 | technomike_phone | mms has never appealed to me |
| 11:22.08 | DocScrutinizer | tobis87: yup, that seems to be the catch |
| 11:22.12 | frals | kerio: im sending 3-5MPix pictures |
| 11:22.25 | SpeedEvil | 5MP is a lie! |
| 11:22.28 | kerio | which will be correctly displayed by... the n900 |
| 11:22.31 | SpeedEvil | Which reminds me. |
| 11:22.33 | *** join/#maemo hannesw_ (~hannes@80-121-101-1.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 11:22.38 | technomike_phone | frals - how do you expect to send 5mp images via mms |
| 11:22.40 | SpeedEvil | I need to do some proper resolution testing. |
| 11:22.53 | kerio | yay testing |
| 11:23.02 | DocScrutinizer | tobis87: I left out dest/ as I had $cwd in correct location, so I thought no dest/ == ./ |
| 11:23.03 | frals | technomike_phone: err, i attach the image -> press send, off it goes! |
| 11:23.11 | technomike_phone | Also MohammadAG |
| 11:23.23 | nid0 | technomike_phone: mms picture size is only limited by restrictions of the mms software on the device in question |
| 11:23.31 | SpeedEvil | And filesize |
| 11:23.49 | SpeedEvil | Some/many operators cap filesize AIUI |
| 11:23.59 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@p1227-ipbf3907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 11:24.07 | frals | yeah, a lot of operators cap it as well |
| 11:24.12 | kerio | ~wtf aiui |
| 11:24.23 | kerio | ~botsnack |
| 11:24.23 | infobot | kerio: :) |
| 11:24.24 | technomike_phone | Aha |
| 11:24.32 | technomike_phone | Apologies then frals |
| 11:24.44 | technomike_phone | I never knew that! :o thats epic then |
| 11:24.51 | SpeedEvil | ponders PPPoMMS |
| 11:25.05 | technomike_phone | But it doesn't mean the recieving device can accept it either does it? |
| 11:25.09 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 11:25.13 | tobis87 | DocScrutinizer: it only compares folders, you should make sure you use -u, if you download new files with the same name, it would get overwriten... to have the exact on both, use --del... so on |
| 11:25.15 | technomike_phone | Thought so |
| 11:25.36 | MohammadAG | technomike_phone, also what? |
| 11:26.01 | technomike_phone | could you link me to where you have all.tar on the internet |
| 11:26.06 | technomike_phone | I need to redownload |
| 11:26.13 | technomike_phone | I think my copy is corrupt |
| 11:27.00 | MohammadAG | let me retar that properly |
| 11:27.14 | technomike_phone | thanks |
| 11:28.24 | MohammadAG | http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/test/all.tar.gz |
| 11:29.31 | SpeedEvil | Is there a share pic to arbitrary FTP site app? |
| 11:29.44 | MohammadAG | ovi store, yes |
| 11:29.58 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. |
| 11:30.09 | SpeedEvil | I need to register I suppose. |
| 11:30.21 | kerio | i thought there was a ftp uploader |
| 11:30.28 | kerio | MohammadAG: what's that? |
| 11:31.19 | *** join/#maemo jo-erlend (~jo-erlend@s07-04085.dsl.no.powertech.net) |
| 11:31.24 | *** join/#maemo technomike_phone (~technomik@94-192-204-3.zone6.bethere.co.uk) |
| 11:31.47 | MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, or use Red Pill mode |
| 11:31.47 | technomike_phone | woops |
| 11:31.47 | MohammadAG | kerio, pulseaudio |
| 11:31.50 | technomike_phone | I think AutoDisconnect disconnected my wifi |
| 11:31.54 | technomike_phone | connection |
| 11:32.08 | DocScrutinizer | tobis87: not really, I just replaced >>rsync -rvvt --no-l -e "ssh -p 22345" jr@blah.cloud.de:mp3/ destination/<< by >>* dest-2/<< and it worked like expected, created locally all dest-2/* subfolders found in remote:mp3, and started downloading files |
| 11:32.09 | technomike_phone | MohammadAG |
| 11:32.23 | jo-erlend | there are many icons in my menu. How can I remove them? There is an icon for Ovi store, for instance, manual, quick introduction, etc. |
| 11:32.32 | *** join/#maemo SC (~Loqki@77-46-210-125.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) |
| 11:32.38 | DocScrutinizer | tobis87: so I'll cancel scp now and resume with rsync |
| 11:33.01 | MohammadAG | jo-erlend, icons are .desktop files in /usr/share/applications/hildon |
| 11:33.09 | jo-erlend | thanks. :) |
| 11:36.13 | technomike_phone | MohammadAG - did you link to that? I may have missed it due to disconnect |
| 11:37.29 | MohammadAG | <MohammadAG> http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/test/all.tar.gz |
| 11:38.16 | technomike_phone | thanks :D |
| 11:40.03 | tobis87 | DocScrutinizer: yes, you can also do from/* /to/, but i don't see the reason for it, still you needed a destination. |
| 11:40.18 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (~Valerio@Maemo/community/contributor/VDVsx) |
| 11:41.42 | *** part/#maemo tobis87 (~tobiaskar@p5B288D31.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:43.16 | *** join/#maemo MSameerWork (~mohammed@a91-156-70-170.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
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| 11:44.30 | *** join/#maemo andi- (~andi@2001:470:1f0a:61f::2) |
| 11:46.25 | *** join/#maemo senge (7838a28f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.120.56.162.143) |
| 11:52.33 | *** join/#maemo jylan (~user@114.129.140.27) |
| 11:55.31 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (~Valerio@Maemo/community/contributor/VDVsx) |
| 11:57.30 | *** join/#maemo hurbu__ (~hurbanza@88-149-236-96.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 11:57.31 | *** join/#maemo bbee2 (~bbee@2001:888:155c::13) |
| 11:58.18 | senge | psycho_oreos: can i install meego and android on nokia n900 afterwards? |
| 11:58.50 | psycho_oreos | senge, android on NIT is known as NITdroid, and yes you can |
| 11:59.09 | psycho_oreos | though both projects are still very much works in progress |
| 11:59.22 | senge | and meego? |
| 11:59.35 | psycho_oreos | same |
| 11:59.38 | ShadowJK | I wish there was a way to tell ovi maps which language to display stuff in :( |
| 12:00.05 | TermanaN900 | ShadowJK, you can - it does three languages |
| 12:00.13 | TermanaN900 | English, English and English |
| 12:00.16 | TermanaN900 | :P |
| 12:00.29 | ShadowJK | i mean the maps |
| 12:00.47 | jacekowski | does it display stuff in different language if you have non english ui? |
| 12:00.57 | ShadowJK | dunno |
| 12:01.04 | TermanaN900 | I guess i forgot my sarcasm tags |
| 12:01.08 | jacekowski | because then maybe just export LANG=something else in simple wrapper may work |
| 12:01.15 | ShadowJK | It's displaying maps in a swedish town in finnish. |
| 12:01.29 | jacekowski | ShadowJK: it's almost the same |
| 12:01.56 | ShadowJK | I can search for the name I see on street sign, and it takes me to the right place on map, but in finnish :) |
| 12:02.09 | ShadowJK | street sign being in swedish |
| 12:02.13 | jacekowski | well at least search works for you |
| 12:02.16 | jacekowski | it doesn't for me |
| 12:02.48 | *** join/#maemo MrLOVER (~MrLOVER@119.152.41.67) |
| 12:02.49 | ShadowJK | yeah searching works awesomely |
| 12:02.59 | ShadowJK | why im using it instead of sygic |
| 12:03.11 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@40.84-48-217.nextgentel.com) |
| 12:03.14 | MrLOVER | Hi |
| 12:03.15 | jacekowski | sygic search is failure |
| 12:03.17 | ShadowJK | sygic has this strange notion of requiring a town or village in your search |
| 12:03.18 | jacekowski | esspecialy in london |
| 12:03.29 | jacekowski | if you search by postcode |
| 12:03.37 | ShadowJK | but it uses village/town divisions not even the locals know of |
| 12:03.39 | jacekowski | which what 99% of people do |
| 12:03.52 | jacekowski | well here i can just select country |
| 12:03.56 | jacekowski | and then type postcode |
| 12:04.07 | jacekowski | but most of london postcodes are not on the list |
| 12:04.28 | MrLOVER | Hiii |
| 12:04.33 | ShadowJK | postcodes here are like subset of subset of subset... |
| 12:04.53 | ShadowJK | if I find the right one it might include the entire country |
| 12:04.58 | jacekowski | hmm, how hard would it be to run tomtom on n900 |
| 12:04.59 | ShadowJK | that'd be nice |
| 12:05.06 | technomike_phone | Agreed |
| 12:05.06 | jacekowski | because tomtom run linux |
| 12:05.15 | technomike_phone | Tomtom <3 |
| 12:05.17 | SpeedEvil | Agreed. |
| 12:05.28 | jacekowski | i'm not sure how it displays stuff |
| 12:05.30 | DocScrutinizer | prod them to port |
| 12:05.32 | jacekowski | is it x or fb |
| 12:05.34 | SpeedEvil | But tomtom don't srll arm versions. |
| 12:05.35 | SpeedEvil | sell |
| 12:05.38 | ShadowJK | fb |
| 12:05.42 | SpeedEvil | other than on wince |
| 12:05.47 | jacekowski | ShadowJK: and iphone |
| 12:05.58 | ShadowJK | also tomtom has pretty funky datastore |
| 12:06.08 | jacekowski | but it works |
| 12:06.11 | jacekowski | and it works quite well |
| 12:06.18 | jacekowski | if anybody has some spare time |
| 12:06.23 | *** part/#maemo MrLOVER (~MrLOVER@119.152.41.67) |
| 12:06.28 | jacekowski | then maybe trying to run it in chroot may be good idea |
| 12:06.31 | ShadowJK | i mean it's not easily adaptable to "standard" linus :) |
| 12:06.43 | TermanaN900 | linux |
| 12:06.43 | ShadowJK | it needs root for sure |
| 12:06.51 | *** join/#maemo sri_ (~sri@122.169.158.25) |
| 12:07.05 | TermanaN900 | I'm sure linus isn't really that standard |
| 12:07.09 | ShadowJK | blames the position of musb and headphone port on n900 for messing up spelling |
| 12:07.11 | TermanaN900 | :P |
| 12:07.11 | senge | psycho_oreos: n900 seems to be really powerful and maemo is taking full advantage of it!! played with the phone today! i think i will buy it |
| 12:07.12 | DocScrutinizer | yawns |
| 12:07.27 | jacekowski | senge: maemo is going to be abandoned |
| 12:07.31 | jacekowski | senge: wait for N9 |
| 12:07.36 | SpeedEvil | I disagree |
| 12:07.42 | SpeedEvil | Buy a phone now if you like it. |
| 12:07.55 | SpeedEvil | New phones will always be along, and you may not like them. |
| 12:07.59 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: what a shit advice is THAT? |
| 12:08.03 | SpeedEvil | But do youre research now. |
| 12:08.15 | crashanddie | your** |
| 12:08.17 | TermanaN900 | jacekowski, i am appaled you would commit such a sin |
| 12:08.17 | jacekowski | well, N9 is going to be released soon |
| 12:08.28 | jacekowski | N900 is quite old phone now |
| 12:08.33 | SpeedEvil | As to whart apps and stuff are avalable on the platform. And don't base purchsing decisions based on what might be available on your platform |
| 12:08.52 | jacekowski | anyways |
| 12:08.53 | senge | android seemed a safe bet! |
| 12:08.55 | Stskeeps | for the upcoming price of n900 its a quite nice phone for the price :P |
| 12:08.56 | technomike_phone | N9 |
| 12:08.57 | technomike_phone | wtf |
| 12:09.01 | crashanddie | senge: definitely is |
| 12:09.04 | technomike_phone | N8 is just coming out |
| 12:09.14 | jacekowski | N9 will be first meego device |
| 12:09.20 | technomike_phone | Ahhhhhhhh |
| 12:09.22 | technomike_phone | !!! |
| 12:09.22 | SpeedEvil | Oh - I see the n900 has a 15% cut in price onthe UK store. |
| 12:09.24 | technomike_phone | epic |
| 12:09.59 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: given the info new high end smartphones of Nokia will run on meego, and looking at state of meego right now, I dare to bet considerable amounts of money there will be NO N9 next 6 months *at least* |
| 12:10.10 | crashanddie | I would've qualified the G1 as being Epic, maybe not MeeGo |
| 12:10.21 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: harmattan meego.. |
| 12:10.33 | technomike_phone | I am getting the N8 |
| 12:10.38 | technomike_phone | It looks epic |
| 12:11.12 | technomike_phone | Gah but its no N900 |
| 12:11.12 | jacekowski | but hardware is quite slow |
| 12:11.16 | technomike_phone | Yeah |
| 12:11.19 | technomike_phone | :( |
| 12:11.35 | senge | ok! is the nokia n900 worth the money considering other android devices (namely HTC ones) ? :) |
| 12:11.35 | *** join/#maemo hurbu_ (~hurbanza@88-149-238-62.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 12:11.42 | jacekowski | worse display |
| 12:11.43 | technomike_phone | I had the N97 before N900 |
| 12:11.50 | technomike_phone | and it was epic fail |
| 12:11.57 | technomike_phone | Worst phone ever |
| 12:12.23 | jacekowski | ? |
| 12:12.27 | technomike_phone | Ammount of bugs in it I mean. Even Nokia admitted it was a huge failure. |
| 12:12.32 | technomike_phone | N97 |
| 12:12.33 | jacekowski | i quite like keyboard in n97 |
| 12:12.38 | technomike_phone | Oh yes |
| 12:12.40 | technomike_phone | me too |
| 12:12.46 | technomike_phone | and the way it opens |
| 12:12.47 | jacekowski | and way how display is opening |
| 12:12.52 | technomike_phone | Haha yes |
| 12:12.54 | technomike_phone | same |
| 12:12.56 | DocScrutinizer | senge: if you don't see why you would prefer a *real* linux device over a andridiot fake, then for sure andridiot is the better option for you |
| 12:13.33 | jacekowski | at some point somebody will port dalvik to glibc and then to normal linux |
| 12:15.01 | DocScrutinizer | senge: maemo/meego isn't a competitor to neither andridiot nor whiPhone |
| 12:15.30 | Stskeeps | jacekowski: worst part is some ubuntu guy did and then never released the source for ideological reasons.. |
| 12:16.28 | technomike_phone | isn't N900 a real linux phone |
| 12:16.32 | kerio | whiphone? |
| 12:16.34 | kerio | :o |
| 12:16.51 | technomike_phone | same question here |
| 12:16.51 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: this won't change the maemo user experience to that of an adridiot phone |
| 12:16.55 | kerio | the n900 is the only other real linux phone |
| 12:17.03 | technomike_phone | what is whiphone |
| 12:17.14 | technomike_phone | I thought so kerio |
| 12:17.39 | senge | DocScrutinizer: :) well i guess n900 is good enough for me. coz thr is always a better phone coming up! ;) :) and it has all the feature needed. As for the OS i could upgrade maemo on n900 to meego, right? |
| 12:17.45 | MNZ | gosh C wizards are so stuck up :| |
| 12:18.14 | DocScrutinizer | senge: eventually yes |
| 12:18.14 | psycho_oreos | dunno about meego on n900 yet |
| 12:18.15 | *** join/#maemo kyb3R (~kyb3R@a83-245-238-7.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 12:18.17 | *** part/#maemo jylan (~user@114.129.140.27) |
| 12:18.33 | DocScrutinizer | when Stskeeps finished the meego-arm port |
| 12:18.37 | psycho_oreos | I know for now its still very much wip for meego on n900 |
| 12:18.38 | senge | DocScrutinizer: i guess i will take the chances!! |
| 12:18.54 | kerio | the n900 is a kickass device |
| 12:18.57 | technomike_phone | The fail thing about most phones for me is... no hardware keyboard |
| 12:19.02 | senge | psycho_oreos: heheh thanks for telling about n900 ;) |
| 12:19.03 | kerio | it's somewhat of a lousy phone though |
| 12:19.19 | senge | kerio: any problems with your n900? |
| 12:19.37 | *** join/#maemo otep (~otep@203.167.31.158) |
| 12:19.41 | SC | Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com ïRc,Argetohu.com |
| 12:19.42 | SC | Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com ïRc,Argetohu.com |
| 12:19.46 | psycho_oreos | senge, the only issues with n900 is that it has small battery size and that the GUI functionality isn't all that great |
| 12:19.55 | psycho_oreos | ops? |
| 12:19.55 | SC | Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com ïRc,Argetohu.com |
| 12:19.55 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: you never even *seen* a lousy phone, believe me :-P |
| 12:19.56 | SC | Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com ïRc,Argetohu.com |
| 12:19.57 | SC | Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com ïRc,Argetohu.com |
| 12:20.03 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 12:20.07 | SC | Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com ïRc,Argetohu.com |
| 12:20.09 | jo-erlend | bye sc. |
| 12:20.09 | SC | Welcome in my Chat wWw.Argetohu.com ïRc,Argetohu.com |
| 12:20.21 | *** mode/#maemo [+b SC!*@*] by DocScrutinizer |
| 12:20.23 | *** kick/#maemo [SC!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!) |
| 12:20.45 | jacekowski | idoru failed |
| 12:20.52 | technomike_phone | senge - bad things for me are... the audio stutters... it lags sometimes due to high cpu usage... and battery life |
| 12:21.02 | psycho_oreos | thanks DocScrutinizer |
| 12:21.04 | kerio | senge: meh, it's not a phone you use to talk |
| 12:21.26 | jo-erlend | kerio, are you talking about n900? |
| 12:21.29 | psycho_oreos | you can, I did, nothing wrong with phone functionality, just not perfect |
| 12:21.38 | technomike_phone | kerio - haha I use my n900 for my phone! |
| 12:21.44 | jo-erlend | me too. I love it. |
| 12:21.47 | technomike_phone | i am on it right now |
| 12:21.52 | technomike_phone | :D |
| 12:22.02 | senge | kerio: i dont do phone calls much!! just need it for the linux awesomeness and open-nesss ;) :) besides some phone calls :) |
| 12:22.03 | technomike_phone | on xchat on n900 |
| 12:22.10 | kerio | senge: then it's perfect |
| 12:22.15 | technomike_phone | agreed |
| 12:22.22 | technomike_phone | its a perfect device |
| 12:22.24 | *** mode/#maemo [+b *!loqki@*] by DocScrutinizer |
| 12:22.29 | technomike_phone | but |
| 12:22.36 | psycho_oreos | initially it may feel funny having a touchscreen that's warm and touching your ear and knowing that its a linux phone/internet tablet you have holding near your ear :) |
| 12:22.37 | senge | so its a true *linux device* |
| 12:22.53 | jo-erlend | yes. |
| 12:22.57 | psycho_oreos | well almost true |
| 12:23.02 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 12:23.05 | senge | psycho_oreos: almost? |
| 12:23.15 | *** join/#maemo PsyTrance (~ubuntu@unaffiliated/psytrance) |
| 12:23.19 | psycho_oreos | senge, it has some proprietary software/driver/firmwares |
| 12:23.34 | technomike_phone | it disappoints me when audio stutters and when the cpu usage goes randomly high and it freezes up and also the bad battery life. |
| 12:23.39 | jo-erlend | it's not just a true linux device. It's also ARM. ARM and Linux are two of the coolest technologies around. :) |
| 12:23.43 | technomike_phone | but apart from those issues |
| 12:23.48 | technomike_phone | I absolutly love it |
| 12:23.48 | psycho_oreos | like GPS can't be activated without phonet, and phone functionality is pretty much proprietary |
| 12:23.52 | technomike_phone | it does lots |
| 12:24.00 | technomike_phone | of functions |
| 12:24.16 | senge | technomike_phone: all linux apps etc etc? |
| 12:24.25 | technomike_phone | Yeah :D |
| 12:24.47 | technomike_phone | what isn't ported can be ran in easy debian |
| 12:24.48 | jo-erlend | I think the only thing I really miss on n900, is hdmi. |
| 12:24.57 | technomike_phone | SAME |
| 12:25.00 | psycho_oreos | some of the poor battery life can be fixed by using power-kernel and auto-disconnect, etc |
| 12:25.19 | technomike_phone | which is why i am upgrading to N8 |
| 12:25.30 | psycho_oreos | ewww shitian -_-' |
| 12:25.33 | technomike_phone | well N9 |
| 12:25.36 | technomike_phone | i mean |
| 12:25.48 | jacekowski | hdmi on a phone is an overkill |
| 12:25.51 | technomike_phone | haha agreed psycho_oreos |
| 12:26.02 | t_s_o | the gps needs a phone connection? my understanding was that it could work without, it would just take longer to get the initial lockon |
| 12:26.07 | psycho_oreos | I'll be getting N9 if its good, but I won't be selling my n900 even if I obtain N9 |
| 12:26.18 | mikhas | t_s_o, *much* longer |
| 12:26.32 | psycho_oreos | t_s_o, the module cannot be accessed directly |
| 12:26.43 | technomike_phone | symbian is the slowest phone OS and just generally shit compared to all the other phone os's today |
| 12:27.01 | technomike_phone | what do you think |
| 12:27.04 | senge | psycho_oreos: hehe! you really love you n900? |
| 12:27.07 | senge | :) |
| 12:27.10 | jo-erlend | jacekowski, why? |
| 12:27.10 | psycho_oreos | symbian is retarded :) retarded and obsessive security over obscurity |
| 12:27.32 | technomike_phone | same here! I will not be selling my n900 at all. No matter what. |
| 12:27.38 | jacekowski | symbian was the first phone os like that |
| 12:27.47 | technomike_phone | haha yes |
| 12:27.49 | technomike_phone | agreed |
| 12:27.49 | psycho_oreos | senge, well I love it because its more open compared to android.. sure its an incomplete masterpiece but its not like you'll lose a limb over it |
| 12:27.49 | jacekowski | and it's 30 years old operating system |
| 12:27.56 | technomike_phone | agreed |
| 12:28.11 | kerio | jacekowski: that doesn't make it good |
| 12:28.20 | kerio | it just makes it old |
| 12:28.20 | technomike_phone | it should be abandoned now in favor of newe technologies and stuff |
| 12:28.24 | technomike_phone | like maemo |
| 12:28.27 | senge | ok! seems perfect since linux requires the extra hardwork but the its imperfection makes it cool sometimes |
| 12:28.27 | psycho_oreos | in fact it makes symbian pretty much counterproductive |
| 12:28.28 | senge | ;) |
| 12:28.46 | technomike_phone | haha agreed |
| 12:28.48 | jacekowski | i'm just saying that symbian has a history behind it |
| 12:28.53 | technomike_phone | yes |
| 12:28.57 | psycho_oreos | senge, if you're a hacker you will enjoy tinkering n900 :) |
| 12:29.03 | jacekowski | and it isn't just a bad OS |
| 12:29.06 | technomike_phone | bad history though. |
| 12:29.21 | technomike_phone | every phone I have had with symbian has been sluggish |
| 12:29.26 | jacekowski | it was first phone operating system when nobody really knew how to do it |
| 12:29.33 | technomike_phone | ah yeah true |
| 12:29.38 | mikhas | technomike_phone, if "best selling mobile OS ever" is bad history ... |
| 12:30.03 | technomike_phone | mikhas - best selling doesn't mean its good. |
| 12:30.04 | jacekowski | it's like saying wright brothers first plane was shit |
| 12:30.06 | psycho_oreos | I've had worse when my very first and will be my very last symbian phone.. n95.. random crashes, doesn't allow me to do things I want, and needs signed apps...extreme pita.. period |
| 12:30.27 | *** join/#maemo hurbu_ (~hurbanza@88-149-239-65.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 12:30.27 | technomike_phone | norton anti-virus is best selling AV but we all know its fail. |
| 12:30.29 | jacekowski | psycho_oreos: you can disable signature requirements |
| 12:30.29 | mikhas | what jacekowski said |
| 12:30.50 | technomike_phone | haha bad comparison |
| 12:30.56 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, untrue, that doesn't work when you have apps that don't have valid certificate.. it needs to be fully cracked |
| 12:30.58 | technomike_phone | but you see what i mean |
| 12:31.16 | technomike_phone | just mod the os to run unsigned apps |
| 12:31.24 | jacekowski | and i had couple symbian phones |
| 12:31.32 | kerio | (iphone's jailbreak, android's rooting) |
| 12:31.32 | psycho_oreos | hence there was things like hello ox |
| 12:31.39 | jacekowski | and some non nokia phones |
| 12:31.41 | psycho_oreos | symbian's cracking |
| 12:31.46 | jacekowski | and i always came back to nokia |
| 12:31.48 | kerio | symbian was ok |
| 12:31.50 | kerio | s60 was crap |
| 12:31.57 | technomike_phone | I remember when I first got my N95 8gb! good times |
| 12:31.58 | jacekowski | 7650 |
| 12:31.59 | jacekowski | n-gage |
| 12:32.06 | psycho_oreos | s60 v3 was the one I had, never again for symbian |
| 12:32.07 | kerio | OH GOD THE n-gage |
| 12:32.08 | technomike_phone | N96 was failure |
| 12:32.17 | technomike_phone | and so was N97 :( |
| 12:32.18 | psycho_oreos | n95-1 was by far the worst |
| 12:32.21 | jacekowski | i really miss pandemonium from n-gage |
| 12:32.35 | kerio | jacekowski: what game is it? |
| 12:32.36 | psycho_oreos | its equipped with a puny RAM compared to the NAM version |
| 12:32.44 | jacekowski | kerio: port of old pc game |
| 12:32.47 | technomike_phone | agreed psycho_oreos. but N96 felt like a downgrade |
| 12:33.00 | technomike_phone | not an upgrade lol |
| 12:33.00 | jacekowski | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemonium_(video_game) |
| 12:33.11 | psycho_oreos | technomike_phone, lucky for me to completely skip the boat of shitian fail :) |
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| 12:33.20 | technomike_phone | haha |
| 12:33.20 | psycho_oreos | I waited for n900 and now I have it |
| 12:33.24 | technomike_phone | :D |
| 12:33.47 | technomike_phone | I love the n900. It has everything! |
| 12:34.04 | technomike_phone | I bet someone writes an app to cook dinner with it soon |
| 12:34.05 | technomike_phone | haha |
| 12:34.26 | psycho_oreos | wasn't there pyrecipe? heh |
| 12:34.44 | technomike_phone | Haha epic ! |
| 12:34.52 | kerio | technomike_phone: adapt the linux coffee howto |
| 12:34.59 | SpeedEvil | I'm in the process of designing a microwave oven conrtroller using my old phone. |
| 12:35.05 | SpeedEvil | With internal webcam, ... |
| 12:35.10 | technomike_phone | wow |
| 12:35.59 | jacekowski | that reminds me of something |
| 12:36.28 | kerio | SpeedEvil: but does it run linux? |
| 12:37.21 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 12:37.30 | technomike_phone | :D |
| 12:37.34 | psycho_oreos | jacekowski, my beef doesn't end with having to fully crack it, I can't browse C:\, Z:\, I can't see hidden files and folders, I can't turn off the stupid camera/video shutter sounds (the otherwise lame law factors) and aboveall if I format the microSD card to whatever format is set on symbian, I cannot simply see the files under linux.. talk about epic fail |
| 12:37.35 | SpeedEvil | neo1973 |
| 12:38.32 | technomike_phone | yeah |
| 12:38.43 | technomike_phone | that is huge failure |
| 12:40.26 | senge | n8 seems very expensive |
| 12:40.28 | kerio | oh, the openmoko |
| 12:40.29 | kerio | cute |
| 12:40.31 | technomike_phone | I am just trying the get_iplayer script for UK N900 users for bbc iplayer |
| 12:40.49 | kerio | SpeedEvil: make the video feed public |
| 12:40.56 | technomike_phone | N8 will be expensive unfortunatly |
| 12:41.09 | technomike_phone | good tech inside though |
| 12:41.17 | psycho_oreos | N8 probably won't worth your money if you like linux |
| 12:41.21 | SpeedEvil | kerio: Sorry - pay-per-view only. |
| 12:41.32 | kerio | :( |
| 12:41.39 | technomike_phone | 12mp camera... hdmi... etc |
| 12:41.41 | kerio | send the feed to myfreecams |
| 12:41.44 | kerio | :D |
| 12:41.47 | technomike_phone | also guys |
| 12:41.58 | kerio | i want a n9 :( |
| 12:41.59 | technomike_phone | N8 has usb host support |
| 12:42.00 | psycho_oreos | sure nice specs... only to run symbian.. a waste |
| 12:42.07 | technomike_phone | so that's epic |
| 12:42.17 | technomike_phone | n900 should have it ffs |
| 12:42.26 | technomike_phone | :( |
| 12:42.27 | kerio | technomike_phone: so pay the guys working on it |
| 12:42.31 | psycho_oreos | there has been talks about usb host mode |
| 12:42.32 | technomike_phone | Ah ! |
| 12:42.35 | technomike_phone | :o |
| 12:42.41 | kerio | they'll have a lot of time to develop if they can quit their jobs |
| 12:42.44 | SpeedEvil | USB host mode is in progress, but it's slow. |
| 12:42.48 | technomike_phone | I neever knew |
| 12:42.57 | kerio | or, you know, develop it yourself |
| 12:43.14 | SpeedEvil | hell - I'd have more time, if I could pay someone 100 quid to do the garden for a bit. |
| 12:43.45 | kerio | SpeedEvil: what's more satisfying, your garden or usb host mode? |
| 12:44.10 | SpeedEvil | kerio: The problem is that I am getting the garden into a lower maintainance condition. |
| 12:44.10 | technomike_phone | kerio - good question haha |
| 12:44.32 | SpeedEvil | kerio: And if I do not do it now, the amount of work I have to do next year will _considerably_ increase. |
| 12:44.42 | SpeedEvil | And hence impact how much time then. |
| 12:44.47 | *** join/#maemo daddy54 (~irchon@78.134.113.128) |
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| 12:45.55 | technomike_phone | definetly best to finish the garden for future free time |
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| 12:45.57 | *** join/#maemo Psi (~ben@ip-58-28-158-238.static-xdsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 12:46.40 | SpeedEvil | Or alternativrely spend the time writing and consrtructing a gardenbot. |
| 12:46.45 | *** join/#maemo daddy54 (~irchon@78.134.113.128) |
| 12:47.01 | SpeedEvil | With seccateurs, tiny weedkiller spray, and a 20mm autocannon in the head. |
| 12:48.13 | *** join/#maemo hurbu_ (~hurbanza@88-149-238-44.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 12:48.35 | kerio | SpeedEvil: you'll need usb host mode for that! |
| 12:48.40 | kerio | *hint hint* |
| 12:52.05 | technomike_phone | hahahahaha |
| 12:52.27 | technomike_phone | and lol epic idea haha speedevil !! |
| 12:53.02 | kerio | i want to connect my 500gb hd to my n900 |
| 12:53.13 | kerio | wait, the 500gb is the internal one |
| 12:53.15 | kerio | the 1tb |
| 12:53.40 | technomike_phone | wow |
| 12:53.54 | technomike_phone | Good idea though. Imagine that! |
| 12:54.21 | technomike_phone | guys |
| 12:54.47 | kerio | although my home server kinda depends on that hd |
| 12:54.51 | kerio | i should really reinstall my home server |
| 12:55.02 | technomike_phone | I have a video in /home/user/ |
| 12:55.08 | kerio | possibly with debian instead of buntku |
| 12:55.09 | technomike_phone | on n900 |
| 12:55.24 | technomike_phone | how do i access it via media player to watch |
| 12:55.38 | kerio | technomike_phone: hmm... cutexplorer? |
| 12:55.39 | technomike_phone | or what is command to move files |
| 12:55.41 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 12:56.02 | technomike_phone | mv right? |
| 12:56.12 | FireFly | Interesting... http://www.petpassion.tv/inc/doc/OviMapsPlayerBetaWEB014_Docs/JsDocPublished_WEB014/index.html |
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| 13:01.41 | mikki-kun | technomike_phone: mv /home/user/VID /home/user/MyDocs/.videos/ |
| 13:01.54 | mikki-kun | VID == name of the vid-file |
| 13:04.31 | mikki-kun | wuhu \o/ "sudo init 0" in the xterm of the n900 and it really dies like twice as fast \o/ |
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| 13:14.54 | crashanddie | lmao |
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| 13:15.21 | crashanddie | you know you've browsed the web too much when you see this in the article description: "Even fits well underneath tactical vests or concealment clothing." |
| 13:16.11 | mikki-kun | that's kind of my everyday article description |
| 13:16.12 | mikki-kun | ^^ |
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| 13:18.48 | mikki-kun | yay, yet again a reset n900... i should keep track on when i flash it |
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| 14:04.13 | Macer | now wtf |
| 14:04.23 | Macer | the email app will open an email then kick you back to the list |
| 14:04.45 | *** join/#maemo smhar (~salman@84.235.101.106) |
| 14:05.32 | Macer | what is the stock m5 email app called? |
| 14:05.44 | Macer | maybe i can just delete the config dir and start from scratch |
| 14:07.20 | Venemo | it is called modest |
| 14:07.52 | Venemo | quite buggy in PR 1.2, but MohammadAG51 has a build of the most current patches |
| 14:09.05 | Macer | ok wtf |
| 14:09.14 | smhar | it is less than modest :-) |
| 14:09.15 | Macer | it downloads the list of emails.. |
| 14:09.28 | Macer | then when i try to open one it tries.. but doesn't open it and goes back to the list |
| 14:09.59 | Macer | device storage full.. wtf?! |
| 14:10.30 | slonopotamus | porn? |
| 14:10.41 | smhar | until a good email client designed for or well ported to N900, I will be using claws-email with all its good and bad issues |
| 14:10.48 | Macer | i'm trying ot find out how the hell it's full |
| 14:10.51 | Macer | i tried ot make a new msg |
| 14:11.00 | Macer | make a new email and it is telling me the device is full :) |
| 14:11.20 | Macer | tmpfs is full i guess |
| 14:11.21 | Macer | ? |
| 14:11.21 | slonopotamus | the question is which device? |
| 14:12.23 | *** join/#maemo Aranel (~Aranel@unaffiliated/aranel) |
| 14:12.31 | Venemo | you can use webmail if you don't want to bother with modest |
| 14:13.11 | Macer | i want an actual client |
| 14:13.23 | Macer | but this is making no sense |
| 14:13.43 | Macer | i have no idea why it won't allow me to open the emails blah. let me try to find another email app |
| 14:14.06 | Venemo | Macer: contact MohammadAG, he has a newer package of modest |
| 14:15.46 | *** join/#maemo igagis (~igagis@cs181109083.pp.htv.fi) |
| 14:16.14 | *** join/#maemo trumee (~rs4@cpc5-cmbg14-0-0-cust982.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
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| 14:17.33 | trumee | guys, have a funny problem. |
| 14:17.44 | mnzaki | trumee, all n900 problems are funny |
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| 14:18.28 | trumee | The media player in N900 doesnt connect to internet radio http://radash.ath.cx:88/broadwave.mp3 but mplayer plays it fine |
| 14:18.39 | trumee | Neither does mediabox. |
| 14:19.00 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (~magao@84.79.25.26) |
| 14:19.05 | lcuk | heya folks |
| 14:19.39 | MNZ | lcuk, hola |
| 14:20.00 | lcuk | has dull ringing in ear |
| 14:20.08 | lcuk | but no pain or dizzyness \o/ |
| 14:20.56 | MNZ | lcuk, play some neverball and report back |
| 14:20.56 | trumee | can somebody please try the above url in N900 media player. |
| 14:21.18 | trumee | it works in mplayer. Media player just keeps on connecting |
| 14:21.46 | crashanddie | smhar: I'm tempted to rename the email client to "dbshyntago" |
| 14:22.05 | crashanddie | "Don't be so humble, you're not that good" |
| 14:22.34 | smhar | crashanddie, :-) |
| 14:22.43 | MNZ | crashanddie, DB Shine ta go ? |
| 14:23.05 | smhar | I liked the 'shy' part |
| 14:24.51 | MNZ | trumee, works here |
| 14:25.04 | Macer | ugh this is like the twilight zone |
| 14:25.17 | MNZ | trumee, crap music though. |
| 14:25.25 | Macer | let me see if claws works |
| 14:25.34 | Macer | i tried trojita and it's flakey too |
| 14:25.46 | trumee | MNZ, thanks |
| 14:25.51 | trumee | for testing |
| 14:26.20 | *** join/#maemo Aranel (~Aranel@unaffiliated/aranel) |
| 14:30.39 | lcuk | mnz lol |
| 14:31.14 | lcuk | crashanddie, i think modest is a good name, it has corner cases like a lot of things |
| 14:31.37 | crashanddie | lcuk: i know, i know, I'm not bashing modest at all |
| 14:31.59 | crashanddie | lcuk: wasn't it on the n900 that everyone bashed the built-in email client, and modest was the saviour? |
| 14:32.06 | crashanddie | s/n900/n8x0/ |
| 14:32.23 | lcuk | idk |
| 14:34.11 | SpeedEvil | I've noticed no patches to modest to actually fix stuff though. |
| 14:34.16 | SpeedEvil | By 'the community' |
| 14:34.32 | SpeedEvil | But I haven't looked more than cursorily. |
| 14:34.36 | *** join/#maemo genewitch (~genewitch@cpe-76-174-127-138.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 14:35.39 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, in a way, its like all OSS |
| 14:35.44 | lcuk | or even closed stuff |
| 14:35.45 | *** join/#maemo Aranel (~Aranel@unaffiliated/aranel) |
| 14:35.52 | lcuk | there is a hill to climb |
| 14:36.05 | lcuk | to get to know the codebase before someone is proficient at it |
| 14:36.10 | lcuk | and can actively offer patches |
| 14:36.15 | lcuk | modest appears maintained |
| 14:36.29 | lcuk | by good active devs (go look on gitorious) |
| 14:36.40 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 14:36.42 | SpeedEvil | Of course |
| 14:36.52 | SpeedEvil | For any other than trivial patches. |
| 14:36.54 | lcuk | and like any maintained software, offering good bugs with lots of info allows the devs to cure |
| 14:37.06 | lcuk | patches like what? |
| 14:37.08 | Macer | well. claws it is |
| 14:37.10 | SpeedEvil | typos |
| 14:37.23 | Macer | i wonder if there is some type of way i can get claws to notify even when it isn't open |
| 14:37.23 | lcuk | hmm typos are harder usually |
| 14:37.28 | SpeedEvil | /* This is a coment*/ |
| 14:37.28 | lcuk | since the code is translated |
| 14:37.36 | lcuk | the source itself does not contain real labels |
| 14:37.41 | SpeedEvil | for example |
| 14:37.48 | lcuk | typos in comments? |
| 14:38.15 | SpeedEvil | An example of a clear error that has no chance of being correct, and can be certainly fixed with no knowledge. |
| 14:38.30 | SpeedEvil | If that patch is useful is a seperate question of course. |
| 14:38.37 | lcuk | if you know of one, please post it |
| 14:38.44 | lcuk | but most bugs I have seen arent |
| 14:38.47 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 14:38.59 | Macer | hm. does anybody kno wif there is a way to get claws to notify you without being open that there is new email? |
| 14:39.04 | SpeedEvil | Most bugs need more than trivial reading of one function in isolation. |
| 14:39.10 | Macer | or to get maemo to open claws instead of modest ? |
| 14:39.12 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 14:39.14 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, yup |
| 14:39.25 | lcuk | Macer, modest is open though |
| 14:39.27 | lcuk | thats the diff |
| 14:39.33 | Macer | oh |
| 14:39.39 | Macer | just don't see it running in the background or something? |
| 14:39.41 | MohammadAG | nice contacts plugins in devel |
| 14:39.49 | lcuk | http://gitorious.org/modest/modest |
| 14:40.56 | SpeedEvil | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11091 - for example. |
| 14:40.57 | povbot | Bug 11091: Bug in cpufreq module - exposed in /proc/timer_stats |
| 14:40.59 | Macer | lcuk: heh. no .deb? |
| 14:41.13 | SpeedEvil | I tried to follow the call-chain - but my head exploded. |
| 14:41.14 | *** join/#maemo Aranel (~Aranel@unaffiliated/aranel) |
| 14:41.22 | lcuk | Macer, no gitorious service offers debs |
| 14:41.27 | lcuk | err git host |
| 14:41.33 | lcuk | its perhaps an issue |
| 14:41.36 | MohammadAG | I don't see a reason it should |
| 14:41.50 | lcuk | it would be nice for git places to dynamically build and offer various final packages ;0 |
| 14:41.55 | lcuk | but that becomes hairy |
| 14:42.06 | lcuk | especially when certain git hosts mis identify the type of project |
| 14:42.19 | MohammadAG | that's what the SSU is for :P |
| 14:42.25 | lcuk | still withers when github identifies liqbase-playground as visual basic |
| 14:42.31 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 14:43.09 | lcuk | ( http://github.com/lcuk ) |
| 14:43.12 | MohammadAG | need help with GPG signing, or I could announce the SSU as terminal only |
| 14:43.30 | lcuk | MohammadAG, thats hardly seamless |
| 14:43.47 | MohammadAG | indeed |
| 14:44.06 | lcuk | your repo with the latest hildon libraries is cool :) |
| 14:44.11 | Venemo | MohammadAG: that would become SU, but not SSU |
| 14:44.15 | Venemo | :D |
| 14:45.07 | Macer | well. claws will do. i'll just keep claws running |
| 14:45.13 | lcuk | SSU* * if you are a gnu hacker with qualifications in ancient unix runes and mystic practices but if you are my mum or someone wait a bit longer whilst we discuss and sort out things |
| 14:45.20 | Macer | i sure wish there were a way to have it run in the background and open itself |
| 14:45.28 | Macer | or to force maemo to use claws instead of modest |
| 14:45.40 | Macer | like for the contact integration etc |
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| 14:48.13 | *** join/#maemo KMFDM (~tKMFDM@ip5658167f.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 14:48.25 | Macer | ARGH |
| 14:50.04 | *** join/#maemo nomis (simon@vmax.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de) |
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| 14:51.52 | Macer | ok. that's it. i tried. but. maemo is shit. you guys put a lot of work in it. but other than the ability to act as a "linux distro" it is total garbage as a phone OS |
| 14:52.54 | lcuk | macer have you ever found a handheld system you are happy with? |
| 14:53.10 | lcuk | I have at various times in the last couple of years heard you rail on every OS |
| 14:53.14 | Macer | symbian on the n95 |
| 14:53.18 | muellisoft | :D |
| 14:53.19 | muellisoft | lol |
| 14:53.21 | Macer | :) |
| 14:53.36 | lcuk | Macer, symbian emulator on n900? |
| 14:53.39 | lcuk | its open source? |
| 14:53.55 | Macer | android was ok after cyanogen but the jabber clients sucked |
| 14:53.59 | lcuk | wants original nokia bw emualtor with snake |
| 14:54.07 | lcuk | full complete phone inside phone |
| 14:54.10 | MohammadAG | liqsymbian |
| 14:54.14 | lcuk | urg |
| 14:54.18 | MohammadAG | :P |
| 14:54.24 | muellisoft | the beauty of Maemo is most of the things are free. You can freely modify the software if you don't like it. Even better: You can redistribute it as well :-) |
| 14:54.26 | Macer | lcuk: does it do portrait mode? |
| 14:54.30 | lcuk | i would not want to lick a phone |
| 14:54.33 | Macer | :-P |
| 14:54.35 | lcuk | Macer, it is portrait mode! |
| 14:54.42 | Macer | does it do landscape? |
| 14:54.43 | Macer | hahaha |
| 14:54.43 | lcuk | i mean original style nokia |
| 14:55.02 | lcuk | a real nokia 3210 active picture |
| 14:55.05 | Macer | i'm ordering my galaxy-s now ;) |
| 14:55.05 | lcuk | push button etc |
| 14:55.44 | Macer | lcuk: android started out pretty bad but at least now it is incredibly functional. maemo doesn't seem to have taken that path |
| 14:56.05 | *** join/#maemo DangerMaus (~eeeeeeeee@tuxhacker/loft306) |
| 14:56.20 | *** join/#maemo akoma1s_ (quasselcor@unaffiliated/akoma1s) |
| 14:56.26 | Venemo | Macer: people will hate you if you relace the N900 with an Android crap |
| 14:56.41 | Macer | well. i installed nit-droid on it ;) |
| 14:57.38 | Macer | if all the hardware worked then i would wipe maemo altogether.. but nokia prevents android from working correctly on any of their phones because they are scared people will realize that running a nokia based phone os isn't as fulfilling :) |
| 14:57.39 | MohammadAG | I wonder if icd2 can be replaced with network-manager |
| 14:58.00 | *** join/#maemo Aranel (~Aranel@unaffiliated/aranel) |
| 14:58.14 | cehteh | take one give one .. pile of shit? |
| 14:59.30 | Venemo | Macer: haha! |
| 14:59.37 | Venemo | Macer: what do you have against Maemo? |
| 14:59.37 | TermanaN900 | lcuk, looks like someone forgot to have their milk and cookies |
| 14:59.42 | TermanaN900 | :P |
| 14:59.55 | lcuk | hmm TermanaN900 ? |
| 15:00.08 | lcuk | i just had a glass of milk |
| 15:00.13 | lcuk | but yes, no cookies |
| 15:00.16 | Muelli | hah Macer! That's a stupid thing to say, because Nokia *does* push all it's Linux patches upstream. Google doesn't |
| 15:00.19 | lcuk | gotta watch my sugar intake |
| 15:00.21 | TermanaN900 | lcuk, actually i meant Macer |
| 15:00.23 | MohammadAG | ffs school tomorrow :( |
| 15:00.23 | TermanaN900 | :P |
| 15:00.32 | lcuk | lol TermanaN900 then that someone is YOU! |
| 15:00.57 | Venemo | Muelli: yeah... so, Android does use Nokia's patches, too! |
| 15:01.04 | TermanaN900 | lcuk, no i just had mine. lol :P |
| 15:01.08 | jacekowski | rotfl |
| 15:01.11 | jacekowski | i'm evil |
| 15:01.12 | jacekowski | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60567 |
| 15:01.27 | jacekowski | it tooke them only a week to realise that this modified fmtxd doesn't really work |
| 15:01.31 | jacekowski | took* |
| 15:01.43 | jacekowski | unless you modify kernel module as well |
| 15:01.54 | jacekowski | or change region |
| 15:01.57 | jacekowski | or something |
| 15:02.09 | nid0 | placebo effect, "ooh its new and shiny and an update, clearly its better!" |
| 15:02.12 | nid0 | "owait." |
| 15:02.23 | jacekowski | but people reported that it's working |
| 15:02.24 | TermanaN900 | jacekowski, looks like your still figuring it out as well |
| 15:02.25 | TermanaN900 | :P |
| 15:02.42 | jacekowski | TermanaN900: ? |
| 15:02.56 | jacekowski | no, my modified fmtx was supposed to only solve reduced power problem |
| 15:03.16 | nid0 | I wasnt someone who tried it, when you say doesnt work does it just not do anything or not increase transmission power/frequency range? |
| 15:03.17 | jacekowski | but somebody asked in comments to remove frequency limit |
| 15:03.39 | jacekowski | nid0: it increases power |
| 15:03.41 | jacekowski | alone |
| 15:03.48 | TermanaN900 | jacekowski, what im saying is, you just gave 3 different solutions, one of those being, do "whatever" |
| 15:03.49 | *** join/#maemo bbee (~bbee@unaffiliated/bbee) |
| 15:04.07 | TermanaN900 | jacekowski, so you must still be figuring it out :P |
| 15:04.10 | jacekowski | no |
| 15:04.23 | jacekowski | there are different options |
| 15:04.31 | jacekowski | i just named 2 |
| 15:04.48 | TermanaN900 | whatever is not an option then? |
| 15:04.49 | TermanaN900 | :P |
| 15:04.59 | jacekowski | it's metaoption |
| 15:05.13 | MohammadAG | flushes TermanaN900 |
| 15:05.21 | jacekowski | nid0: thing is that people reported that they had working lower frequencies |
| 15:05.34 | jacekowski | nid0: and lower frequencies only work if you change region to 4 |
| 15:06.46 | lcuk | hey guys. a couple of weeks ago somebody came in the chan |
| 15:06.55 | lcuk | asking about getting "sudser" working on the n900 |
| 15:07.02 | lcuk | he had used it happily in the past |
| 15:07.07 | lcuk | so I did a quick smoke test |
| 15:07.13 | lcuk | and then mailed the maintainer |
| 15:07.26 | lcuk | who put it for chinook and diablo |
| 15:07.27 | lcuk | http://pastebin.com/3zevWDv4 |
| 15:07.38 | lcuk | is it possible those who can to just test this |
| 15:07.53 | lcuk | and the guy will submit to the fremantle queue once tests are done |
| 15:08.20 | lcuk | sudser enables normal "sudo blah" syntax from the terminal |
| 15:08.47 | jacekowski | that's evil |
| 15:08.55 | *** join/#maemo Aranel (~Aranel@unaffiliated/aranel) |
| 15:09.03 | jacekowski | i mean it's security risk |
| 15:09.03 | lcuk | no, releasing binaries that you don't own is evil |
| 15:09.17 | lcuk | his work is something to make life simpler and more normal for folks |
| 15:09.44 | MohammadAG | Andrew doesn't have an N900 afaik |
| 15:09.55 | lcuk | exactly, so we need to check it for him :) |
| 15:09.56 | jacekowski | sudo gainroot is more secure |
| 15:09.58 | MohammadAG | which is why he let me take over http://maemo.org/packages/view/mc/ |
| 15:10.09 | lcuk | ahh MohammadAG interesting |
| 15:10.18 | lcuk | would you want to talk to him about taking this package too? |
| 15:10.41 | MohammadAG | I requested to be a maintainer |
| 15:10.46 | *** join/#maemo ShadowVX (~user@243-145-ftth.onsnetnuenen.nl) |
| 15:10.48 | MohammadAG | but sudser doesn't have one |
| 15:11.17 | lcuk | yeah its not been submitted to n900, it was just on the back of a couple of users asking |
| 15:11.32 | MohammadAG | so does it work? |
| 15:12.06 | lcuk | worked for me, but thats not the same |
| 15:12.15 | MohammadAG | does your device boot up |
| 15:12.19 | lcuk | yes |
| 15:12.53 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 15:12.58 | MohammadAG | does it take long to install? |
| 15:12.59 | *** join/#maemo sheepbat (~lev3k@2001:c08:3700:ffff::2:61bb) |
| 15:13.31 | lcuk | no its a tiny package |
| 15:13.36 | MohammadAG | oh, GUI dialog |
| 15:13.40 | lcuk | yup |
| 15:14.33 | MohammadAG | lcuk, did you set a password? |
| 15:15.43 | lcuk | how would I tell, I probably did |
| 15:15.50 | lcuk | hold on |
| 15:16.11 | lcuk | sudo ifconfig |
| 15:16.16 | lcuk | doesnt ask for a password |
| 15:16.19 | lcuk | from x term |
| 15:16.30 | lcuk | so no, I don't think I did |
| 15:18.03 | *** join/#maemo nomis (simon@vmax.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de) |
| 15:20.15 | jacekowski | lcuk: well, what i'm doing is not even an eula breach |
| 15:21.13 | lcuk | jacekowski, why would you think I meant you? |
| 15:21.25 | lcuk | I merely mentioned something I thought that was evil |
| 15:21.44 | jacekowski | because last time you mentioned it |
| 15:21.47 | MNZ | lcuk, try sudo -K; sudo ifconfig |
| 15:21.58 | lcuk | mnz, what would that do |
| 15:22.09 | jacekowski | but since then i had time to ask questions |
| 15:22.20 | MNZ | sudo -K = remove the sudo cache. See if it asks for a password now |
| 15:23.00 | lcuk | no password still |
| 15:23.15 | lcuk | jacekowski, have you asked the people who own the binary? |
| 15:23.30 | jacekowski | no |
| 15:23.39 | lcuk | aren't those the ones who matter? |
| 15:23.40 | jacekowski | i asked a solicitor |
| 15:23.42 | jacekowski | no |
| 15:24.07 | jacekowski | and british law is one that matters |
| 15:24.09 | jacekowski | in my case |
| 15:24.39 | jacekowski | (d) You may not reverse engineer, reverse compile, disassemble, or |
| 15:24.39 | jacekowski | otherwise attempt to discover the source code of the Software (except |
| 15:24.39 | jacekowski | to the extent that this restriction is expressly prohibited by law) |
| 15:24.40 | jacekowski | or create derivative works based on the Software. |
| 15:24.50 | jacekowski | thing in bracket is the most important part of it |
| 15:25.37 | lcuk | wow, i like your style. does that mean you can do that with anything? |
| 15:26.12 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: sudser is really a *bad* idea for maintaining a concerned bout security system |
| 15:26.25 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, sure |
| 15:26.35 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: sudser is about as dead stupid simple as *# |
| 15:26.36 | lcuk | but so is sudo gainroot |
| 15:26.42 | lcuk | or any of the other various methods |
| 15:26.45 | lcuk | or installing debs |
| 15:26.47 | DocScrutinizer | righyright |
| 15:26.49 | jacekowski | lcuk: distribution part of it is little bit illegal |
| 15:26.49 | lcuk | etc |
| 15:27.01 | lcuk | haha |
| 15:27.05 | lcuk | " a little bit " |
| 15:27.15 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@80.90.124.130) |
| 15:27.40 | jacekowski | thing is |
| 15:27.43 | jacekowski | that if you read eula |
| 15:27.44 | jacekowski | Nokia grants to You non-exclusive, non-transferable end-user rights |
| 15:27.44 | jacekowski | to install the Software on the local hard disk(s) or other permanent |
| 15:27.44 | jacekowski | storage media of one computer and use the Software on a single computer |
| 15:27.45 | jacekowski | or terminal at a time. |
| 15:27.55 | DocScrutinizer | my suggestion back when that guy came here asking bout sudser was to remove the NOPASSWD property from sudo gainroot sudorers config, as well as from sudsers sudoers config |
| 15:28.10 | jacekowski | nothing about phone itself |
| 15:28.23 | DocScrutinizer | and create a root password like ssh install does |
| 15:28.36 | jacekowski | and other thing is that i never accepted that eula |
| 15:28.46 | jacekowski | i bought phone with software already on it |
| 15:28.49 | jacekowski | and then upgraded it |
| 15:28.56 | jacekowski | and it never asked me to accept eula |
| 15:28.57 | *** join/#maemo LjL (~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl) |
| 15:29.15 | slonopotamus | jacekowski, aint phone a computer iself? hint: you can accept eula once per each device |
| 15:30.01 | slonopotamus | oh, you don't want to |
| 15:30.08 | TermanaN900 | I see |
| 15:30.23 | jacekowski | so that part is little bit fuzzy |
| 15:30.27 | TermanaN900 | Now we need a court case to determine if the n900 is a phone or a computer |
| 15:30.49 | jacekowski | according to nokia it's a tablet |
| 15:31.09 | ShadowVX | phone == computer nowadays |
| 15:31.21 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I'm temped to create a *pkg* (OMFG) to remove NOPASSWD from quite a number of lines in /etc/sudoers rsp /etc/sudoers.d/* |
| 15:31.35 | nid0 | well, nokia's n900 subsite does clearly define it as a computer many times |
| 15:32.14 | lcuk | leaves for the afternoon, this is just too crazy to comprehend, perhaps tomorrow it will make more sense |
| 15:32.38 | ShadowVX | ... |
| 15:32.41 | MohammadAG51 | lcuk, sudser command in terminal to set a pass for |
| 15:32.43 | MohammadAG51 | sudo... meh |
| 15:33.02 | TermanaN900 | He forgot his biscuits |
| 15:33.03 | *** join/#maemo Chewtoy (~chewtoy@c80-216-58-110.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 15:33.05 | TermanaN900 | :D |
| 15:33.52 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: same pkg could nuke the idiotic sudoers-update and instead include an #includedir /etc/sudoers.d line to /etc/sudoers |
| 15:34.00 | jacekowski | hmm, how do i boot phone via usb |
| 15:34.03 | jacekowski | with flasher |
| 15:34.06 | MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, too late, he left |
| 15:34.06 | jacekowski | i mean different kernel |
| 15:34.19 | MohammadAG51 | flasher-3.5 -k image.bin -l -b |
| 15:34.23 | jacekowski | i would need to have modules already in /lib/modules |
| 15:34.40 | jacekowski | ? |
| 15:34.52 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: nice idea |
| 15:34.57 | MohammadAG51 | probably, unless you select a different root= |
| 15:34.59 | TermanaN900 | jacekowski, yes |
| 15:35.07 | MohammadAG51 | using -b |
| 15:35.17 | MohammadAG51 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:35.24 | cehteh | i considered to hack that on my device, but a package would be certainly of more value (for others) |
| 15:35.30 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: yeah! I mean "update-sudoers" - what a weird shit is THAT? |
| 15:35.36 | *** join/#maemo johnsq (nobody@88.78.broadband14.iol.cz) |
| 15:35.44 | johnsq | Hi |
| 15:35.52 | MohammadAG51 | it adds lines in /etc/sudoers.d to /etc/sudoers |
| 15:35.54 | TermanaN900 | MohammadAG51, how would that help? He would still need to have modules located in the rootfs |
| 15:36.17 | TermanaN900 | where ever it might be |
| 15:36.17 | MohammadAG51 | yes, but not the default one |
| 15:36.17 | cehteh | never looked at that .. we already concluded that the security model of the device doesnt really shine (what security?) .. right? |
| 15:36.25 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: I *know* _what_ it does, I just have no fsckng clue _why_ it does |
| 15:36.39 | MohammadAG51 | to allow apps to run with sudo without a pass |
| 15:36.51 | jacekowski | m-shield ( ARM trustzone ) has so many features to make this device really secure |
| 15:36.52 | Venemo | what is the difference between 'su' and 'su -' ? |
| 15:36.57 | MohammadAG51 | a method similar to gksudo would be better |
| 15:36.59 | jacekowski | but nobody bothered to use it |
| 15:37.02 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: stop talking to me like I am an idiot, please |
| 15:37.12 | johnsq | Venemo: man su |
| 15:37.20 | MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, lol |
| 15:37.22 | cehteh | jacekowski: even the most basic unix security things are not deployed |
| 15:37.45 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: RTFM!!! man 5 sudoers |
| 15:37.51 | cehteh | i am rather wondering why there is a user and the whole userland doesnt run as root at first place :P |
| 15:37.58 | DocScrutinizer | /#includedir |
| 15:38.06 | MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, i'm not the one asking o_O |
| 15:38.20 | jacekowski | cehteh: oom would go crazy if that would be the case |
| 15:38.34 | cehteh | haha |
| 15:38.43 | cehteh | you found the reason! |
| 15:38.47 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: then stop answering as long as you have no idea about what's been the question |
| 15:38.56 | jacekowski | chill |
| 15:39.03 | Venemo | johnsq: hardly workable on Windows :) |
| 15:39.10 | *** join/#maemo __a (~albert@tappan-125-136.eduroam.liu.se) |
| 15:39.12 | MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, bad day? |
| 15:39.20 | GAN900 | Hush, children. |
| 15:39.34 | TermanaN900 | Wonderful |
| 15:39.35 | nid0 | Venemo: not entirely true, just type it into google instead of shell |
| 15:39.44 | johnsq | Venemo: then use a real os or google man su |
| 15:39.48 | TermanaN900 | now we get to listen to the teachings of GAN |
| 15:39.53 | TermanaN900 | :P |
| 15:40.58 | TermanaN900 | GAN900, we're waiting |
| 15:41.08 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: sorry, but >>[2010-08-29 17:33:51] <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: same pkg could nuke the idiotic sudoers-update and instead include an #includedir /etc/sudoers.d line to /etc/sudoers >>[2010-08-29 17:35:29] <DocScrutinizer> cehteh: yeah! I mean "update-sudoers" - what a weird shit is THAT? >>[2010-08-29 17:35:52] <MohammadAG51> it adds lines in /etc/sudoers.d to /etc/sudoers >>[2010-08-29 17:36:25] <DocScrutinizer> MohammadAG51: I * |
| 15:41.09 | DocScrutinizer | know* _what_ it does, I just have no fsckng clue _why_ it does >>[2010-08-29 17:36:38] <MohammadAG51> to allow apps to run with sudo without a pass |
| 15:41.21 | TermanaN900 | well apparently not him |
| 15:41.40 | MohammadAG51 | sigh, ttyl |
| 15:41.52 | *** part/#maemo MohammadAG51 (~lagrange@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 15:42.01 | pupnik_ | "It's almost hard to imagine ever being so young now." |
| 15:42.14 | GAN900 | Hehe |
| 15:42.43 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, don't let the enthusiastic youngsters make you shout at them to get off your lawn. :P |
| 15:42.55 | DocScrutinizer | :-) |
| 15:44.05 | jacekowski | well, only thing that comes to my mind would be optimisation |
| 15:44.13 | jacekowski | so then sudo only has to read one file |
| 15:44.18 | GAN900 | Anyway, is anybody else watching the Maemo-MeeGo OBS integration discussion on #meego and meego-dev with great hilarity? |
| 15:44.29 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: that's utter nonsense |
| 15:45.01 | jacekowski | well, it would make sense if there would be 100s of files in /etc/sudoers.d |
| 15:45.03 | DocScrutinizer | I guess they tried to implement some syntax check or security fallback in a very very weird way |
| 15:45.18 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, that's my understanding of it. |
| 15:46.29 | pupnik_ | http://cgi.ebay.de/Open-Pandora-Handheld-Netbook-Linux-Wifi-Emulators-/250689027050 |
| 15:47.05 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: but then it would be much cleaner to just syntaxcheck sudoers.d/* and kick out any offending file to /tem/crap/* |
| 15:47.14 | DocScrutinizer | or similar scheme |
| 15:47.14 | Stskeeps | GAN900: not really fair. we try to do something for maemo developers and legal issues has to be sorted. people pushing it is all about open source and it pains us having to push this (as it is the right thing to do for developers) |
| 15:47.33 | GAN900 | Stskeeps, it's not fair that it's fun to watch? |
| 15:48.01 | *** join/#maemo ziplock (~zip1ock@unaffiliated/ziplock) |
| 15:48.01 | Stskeeps | GAN900: no, that you think it's 'fun' someone is doing something about a real problem. |
| 15:49.36 | GAN900 | Stskeeps, hey, alternative is that I could be depressed about the whole thing. |
| 15:50.42 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 15:51.15 | *** join/#maemo daddy54 (~daddy54@78.134.113.128) |
| 15:51.50 | Stskeeps | GAN900: when it comes to things people could potentially be sued over if not done right, these kind of discussions and views are valid. we've found a good solution now after being aware of these issues. |
| 15:52.54 | DangerMaus | Whats MeeGo? |
| 15:52.56 | Stskeeps | GAN900: for my sake the closed apis of fremantle could die a horrible death, but we both know that isn't the right thing to do for developers. so a solution has to be made. |
| 15:53.51 | Stskeeps | DangerMaus: meego.com |
| 15:54.53 | DangerMaus | Ahhhh! |
| 15:54.59 | GAN900 | Stskeeps, well, I'm not exactly at the point where I'm attributing nobel intentions to MeeGo as a project. |
| 15:55.14 | GAN900 | le* |
| 15:57.20 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: just one question about bq24150 |
| 15:57.29 | DocScrutinizer | shoot |
| 15:57.32 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: you want that module to have default startup configuration |
| 15:57.43 | jacekowski | or read current settings in chip? |
| 15:57.56 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 15:58.24 | DocScrutinizer | I'd say it should do a chip reset on module init |
| 15:58.29 | *** join/#maemo Chewtoy (~chewtoy@c80-216-58-110.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 15:58.33 | jacekowski | great |
| 15:58.52 | DocScrutinizer | everything else would be rather insane |
| 15:59.00 | SpeedEvil | Chip reset, and come up in 100mA charge state? |
| 15:59.04 | SpeedEvil | Or wait for userspace |
| 15:59.36 | DocScrutinizer | come up in chip po defaults (which happens to be recovery charge config) |
| 15:59.45 | Stskeeps | GAN900: you've been reacting to every single thing with negativity when things are actually tried to be dealt with. it gets old. grab a shovel instead and/or do actual realistical proposals how to deal with issues you're supposed to represent. |
| 16:00.20 | GAN900 | Stskeeps, I think I'm going to move on instead. |
| 16:00.40 | GAN900 | MeeGo is currently incredibly exhausting and frustrating. |
| 16:01.22 | jacekowski | any open source project is |
| 16:01.32 | DocScrutinizer | nah |
| 16:02.01 | GAN900 | jacekowski, to some extent, but Maemo wasn't nearly as bad in 5 years as MeeGo has been for me. |
| 16:02.39 | jacekowski | there are couple things you have to learn to deal with that problem |
| 16:02.48 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~pupnik@p54866337.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:03.09 | DocScrutinizer | how to shout at people, for example? |
| 16:03.19 | jacekowski | you have to learn to don't car |
| 16:03.21 | jacekowski | care* |
| 16:03.25 | jacekowski | and to hate people |
| 16:03.27 | DocScrutinizer | pff |
| 16:03.35 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (~murrayc@host-88-217-185-158.customer.m-online.net) |
| 16:03.50 | *** part/#maemo daddy54 (~daddy54@78.134.113.128) |
| 16:03.55 | MNZ | hates you guys |
| 16:04.08 | nid0 | doesnt care |
| 16:04.12 | DocScrutinizer | I prefer to like peple and the work they do and to know they do as well |
| 16:04.13 | jacekowski | i don't care |
| 16:04.50 | DocScrutinizer | there's been FOSS projects that were joy instead of pain to contribute |
| 16:05.18 | jacekowski | last project i really was doing something with was amarok |
| 16:05.22 | MNZ | DocScrutinizer, why? what makes them different from maemo? how can me make maemo a joy to contribute to like the FOSS projects you speak of? |
| 16:05.29 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: they always took time to get to that point though |
| 16:05.31 | jacekowski | but then they decided to do amarok 2.0 |
| 16:05.34 | GAN900 | MNZ, well, Maemo's dead. |
| 16:05.57 | MNZ | GAN900, is nothing from maemo going to be useful to meego? |
| 16:05.57 | squidd | That's bit sad :( |
| 16:06.14 | GAN900 | MNZ, apparently not. |
| 16:06.19 | MNZ | lets pack up then |
| 16:06.41 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: just shouted bitch at amarok (to be precise at phonon hardcompiled to amarok, and - oh wonder - at PA once again) |
| 16:07.03 | jacekowski | well |
| 16:07.07 | *** part/#maemo Venemo (~Venemo@host-94-248-205-46.kabelnet.hu) |
| 16:07.07 | jacekowski | not so long ago |
| 16:07.13 | jacekowski | amarok was the best player i ever saw |
| 16:07.17 | jacekowski | multiple backends |
| 16:07.20 | MNZ | jacekowski, quodlibet ftw |
| 16:07.31 | jacekowski | musicbrainz integration |
| 16:07.41 | jacekowski | it could move files to directories |
| 16:07.45 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: ack |
| 16:07.49 | jacekowski | keep lyrics and stuff in one place |
| 16:08.05 | jacekowski | and what they done to it now is just sad |
| 16:08.11 | DocScrutinizer | now it's useless due to general audio madness on newer distros and KDE |
| 16:08.29 | MNZ | have you guys tried quodlibet seriously? |
| 16:08.45 | jacekowski | foobar reminds me of amarok |
| 16:08.48 | jacekowski | but it's not amarok |
| 16:08.59 | *** join/#maemo avs (~avs@a88-113-5-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:09.05 | jacekowski | MNZ: it's python and it's gtk based |
| 16:09.25 | MNZ | jacekowski, kde user... sorry had to guess from the amarok love |
| 16:09.38 | jacekowski | but that was nice thing about amarok that it could have one database in mysql |
| 16:09.43 | jacekowski | and all computers could use it |
| 16:10.11 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: I had latency from end of one song to start playback of next song, that increased by 3min (180s) on each new playback startoff |
| 16:10.19 | MNZ | quodlibet = python + gtk + gstreamer + hackiness + regexp search in all tags/filenames/directories/what-have-you |
| 16:10.39 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: oO? |
| 16:11.21 | MNZ | How far fetched is it to try keeping maemo alive solely on community efforts? |
| 16:11.37 | jacekowski | not very far |
| 16:11.46 | jacekowski | community isn't organised enough |
| 16:11.50 | DocScrutinizer | PA fucking doesn't quit when it should, so obviously phonon/amarok waiting till day dawns for stream getting freed and then starts next |
| 16:12.46 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: I had some 2 years ago lags of several DAYS!! for KDE desktop event audio |
| 16:13.21 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: funny thing when the warning sound of a alert requester yells 50h after the actual event |
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| 16:18.45 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: or maybe it's gstreamer, as aiui phonon is using gstreamer to interface to PA which in turn bases on ALSA device drivers :-x |
| 16:19.36 | jacekowski | fuck yeah |
| 16:19.44 | jacekowski | you have to love linux sound architecture |
| 16:20.13 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: notifier of phonon: "Phonon: Audio device hw:0.0 doesn't work, using hw:0.0 instead" MUHAHAHAHAAAAA |
| 16:21.23 | MNZ | Actually the linux sound architecture is not THAT horrible :/ it's just pulseaudio that sucks really. I've pretty much always had things work for me |
| 16:21.46 | MNZ | then again, debian doesn't use PA |
| 16:21.51 | DocScrutinizer | in phonon backend configuration you can select from gstreamer and xine - alas clicking on xine instantly segfaults |
| 16:22.36 | DocScrutinizer | off for vomiting elsewhere |
| 16:22.40 | DangerMaus | hehe |
| 16:23.02 | SwedeMike | PA has gotten better, I think a lot of people who say it sucks have older experiences. |
| 16:23.14 | SwedeMike | ubuntu and some others adopted it too soon |
| 16:23.24 | SwedeMike | but then again, I guess that might have increased development pace |
| 16:23.32 | DangerMaus | i love that msg for the sound stuff DocScrutinizer i see if alot |
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| 17:01.57 | nox- | moin |
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| 17:36.50 | n900-space | hey everyone |
| 17:37.23 | n900-space | my n900 is connected to wifi on which my laptop is also connected, but on n900 i cannot access internet and on laptop i can |
| 17:37.31 | n900-space | any idea whats happening ? |
| 17:37.44 | n900-space | any diagnostic commands ? |
| 17:37.56 | merlin1991 | ping? |
| 17:38.01 | slonopotamus | n900-space, and 'wifi' is some kind of a router? |
| 17:38.04 | mikki-kun | n900-space: hm, did you set yourself the ip it shpoudl fetch or are using dhcp? |
| 17:38.12 | mikki-kun | *should |
| 17:38.23 | mikki-kun | sorry for the typo <.< |
| 17:38.30 | n900-space | using dhcp mikki-kun , its getting the ip it usually gets |
| 17:38.33 | n900-space | no problem :) |
| 17:38.57 | mikki-kun | hm... did you try restarting your n900 and can you possibly ping it? |
| 17:39.00 | n900-space | wifi i meant slonopotamus, the wifi network, its a router yes |
| 17:39.19 | slonopotamus | n900-space, can n900 ping router itself? |
| 17:39.34 | n900-space | tried restarting many times, its been happening for more then a day now |
| 17:39.53 | slonopotamus | it worked before? |
| 17:39.58 | n900-space | do you mean ping the router mikki-kun ? |
| 17:40.06 | n900-space | oh |
| 17:40.14 | n900-space | yes it used to work slonopotamus |
| 17:40.24 | n900-space | what wud be the router's ip :) ? |
| 17:40.27 | mikki-kun | ping the n900 from your pc and yeah, also try pinging your router from the n900... |
| 17:41.02 | slonopotamus | n900-space, if your device ip is A.B.C.D, routes is usually A.B.C.1 |
| 17:41.11 | n900-space | like my n900 is issued 192.168.1.105 |
| 17:41.14 | n900-space | yes my laptop can ping it |
| 17:41.21 | mikki-kun | 192.168.1.1 it should be then |
| 17:41.31 | n900-space | trying from n900 to router ping now |
| 17:42.02 | slonopotamus | n900-space, 'route -n' and see what is assigned as default gateway (for 0.0.0.0) |
| 17:42.04 | n900-space | yes it can ping the 192.168.1.1 |
| 17:42.09 | slonopotamus | okay |
| 17:42.19 | slonopotamus | now, check gateway thing |
| 17:42.27 | n900-space | ok |
| 17:42.55 | n900-space | says something like: |
| 17:43.21 | n900-space | destination is 192.168.1.0 .... Gateway is 0.0.0.0 |
| 17:43.26 | n900-space | thats the first line |
| 17:43.30 | n900-space | and the 2nd line: |
| 17:43.31 | slonopotamus | n900-space, other line, plz |
| 17:43.56 | n900-space | destination is 0.0.0.0 .... Gateway is 192.168.1.1 |
| 17:44.07 | slonopotamus | looks correct |
| 17:44.23 | slonopotamus | n900-space, can you ping 8.8.4.4 from n900? |
| 17:44.32 | n900-space | trying |
| 17:44.55 | n900-space | yes i can |
| 17:44.57 | slonopotamus | if yes, you have dns issue. if no, something is likely b0rked in router setup |
| 17:44.58 | n900-space | what is it btw |
| 17:45.07 | nox- | google dns |
| 17:45.13 | n900-space | aha |
| 17:45.22 | slonopotamus | n900-space, google dns. just easy to remember |
| 17:45.31 | n900-space | ok |
| 17:45.50 | slonopotamus | n900-space, now, dns. what do you have in /etc/resolv.conf ? |
| 17:46.01 | n900-space | lemme check |
| 17:46.24 | slonopotamus | $10 it has some crap :) |
| 17:46.38 | n900-space | hhehehehe |
| 17:46.41 | n900-space | hehehe |
| 17:46.46 | n900-space | ok it says |
| 17:46.53 | n900-space | only has 2 lines |
| 17:46.57 | n900-space | and they say : |
| 17:47.09 | mikki-kun | slonopotamus: i think you just won ^^ |
| 17:47.15 | n900-space | line 1 : #automatically generated by pc-connectivity-manager |
| 17:47.32 | n900-space | line 2 : nameserver 192.168.2.14 |
| 17:47.48 | *** join/#maemo technomike_phone (~technomik@94-192-204-3.zone6.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:47.59 | slonopotamus | bingo :) |
| 17:48.06 | n900-space | :) |
| 17:48.21 | mikki-kun | we have a winner here \o/ claim your price slonopotamus |
| 17:48.22 | mikki-kun | ^^ |
| 17:48.23 | slonopotamus | n900-space, replace second line with 'nameserver 192.168.1.1' (without quotes) |
| 17:48.35 | mikki-kun | slonopotamus: not 127.0.0.1? |
| 17:48.57 | slonopotamus | mikki-kun, n900 has dns daemon? |
| 17:49.05 | n900-space | ok and will not effect my pc connectivity in any way ? |
| 17:49.12 | mikki-kun | slonopotamus: at least my n900 has 127.0.0.1 in it and that works |
| 17:49.14 | slonopotamus | n900-space, nope |
| 17:49.29 | slonopotamus | n900-space, okay, first try 127.0.0.1 |
| 17:49.36 | n900-space | ok |
| 17:49.45 | thresh | on 900, you're supposed to provide dnsmasq with a dns server. |
| 17:49.52 | mikki-kun | but my netbook (running gentoo) usses 192.168.1.1.... weird |
| 17:49.53 | slonopotamus | n900-space, 'nameserver 127.0.0.1' |
| 17:50.11 | slonopotamus | mikki-kun, and that's the proper setup |
| 17:50.30 | slonopotamus | n900-space, then try going to some websites |
| 17:50.34 | mikki-kun | take away my precious wpa_supplicant and stuff will not be properly set up ^^ |
| 17:50.51 | n900-space | working :) |
| 17:50.51 | n900-space | yayyy |
| 17:50.57 | n900-space | google.com just showed up |
| 17:51.07 | *** part/#maemo ziplock (~ziplock@unaffiliated/ziplock) |
| 17:51.40 | slonopotamus | n900-space, one of standard network troubles |
| 17:53.15 | slonopotamus | n900-space, okay, now i got root access to your computer. downloading out private pics... |
| 17:53.27 | mikki-kun | slonopotamus: maybe cause i have set up a static ip for that connection |
| 17:53.35 | mikki-kun | that's maybe why it uses 127.0.0.1 |
| 17:53.49 | n900-space | hehehe :) |
| 17:53.50 | mikki-kun | from my n900 and therefore needed to configure my dns-servers |
| 17:53.57 | n900-space | i'm running windows right now :) |
| 17:53.59 | mikki-kun | 8.8.4.4 is my secondary ^^ |
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| 17:54.47 | slonopotamus | n900-space, hey, installing linux on that thingie was step #0. |
| 17:55.48 | n900-space | yes n I have fedora c12 on multiboot, so aint that big a sinner these days. |
| 17:56.31 | n900-space | btw, i cud just not install the pc-connectivity app on fedora !!! |
| 17:56.37 | n900-space | its was just not getting installed. |
| 17:56.38 | mikki-kun | :o fedora? go gentoo! |
| 17:57.07 | n900-space | the way it has been described on pc-connectivity.garage.maemo.org/ |
| 17:57.13 | n900-space | gentoo? |
| 17:57.13 | n900-space | well sure |
| 17:57.18 | n900-space | will get it downloaded tonight |
| 17:57.48 | n900-space | I was having trouble getting my external hdd to boot my laptop |
| 17:57.51 | n900-space | its was sad |
| 17:58.03 | slonopotamus | n900-space, you were lucky you met me. if you met my dad, he would already installed freebsd 4.x on your poor box :) |
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| 17:59.03 | mikki-kun | freebsd? that one i gotta try when i am feeling lucky |
| 17:59.31 | mikki-kun | slonopotamus: is it a huge change if you go there from linux? |
| 17:59.36 | n900-space | hehehe |
| 17:59.52 | slonopotamus | mikki-kun, no fun (on desktop), very moderate hw support |
| 17:59.54 | nox- | mikki-kun, http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/bsd4linux1.php |
| 18:00.06 | nox- | :) |
| 18:00.35 | slonopotamus | mikki-kun, gentoo is a closest thing in linux world to freebsd (and that's why i'm using it) |
| 18:00.39 | n900-space | :) |
| 18:00.53 | n900-space | ./rants |
| 18:00.55 | mikki-kun | a fellow gentooer :) \o/ |
| 18:01.14 | slonopotamus | also, do not forget to lookup depenguinator project :D |
| 18:01.51 | mikki-kun | nox-: thanks for the link, will read it |
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| 18:02.38 | n900-space | lemme boot this machine from fc12, since you guys are online I should ask for one more thing |
| 18:02.58 | nox- | and re desktop freebsd, its not _that_ bad, i even have vdr running on freebsd now with dvb-s2 |
| 18:03.25 | slonopotamus | nox-, they still have oss |
| 18:03.34 | slonopotamus | (sound) |
| 18:03.50 | Shadikka | nox-: Thanks for the link, it seems interesting. :) |
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| 18:05.30 | nox- | well is that a problem slonopotamus? at least freebsd's `oss' has in-kernel mixing and per-app volume so you rarely need any `sound daemons' like linux has countless ones... |
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| 18:06.26 | slonopotamus | nox-, last time i tried (~2006) kde (with arts!!) could only make sounds from a single app at a time |
| 18:07.12 | nox- | well ok maybe 2006 there were no vchans yet (or they werent enabled by default) |
| 18:07.34 | slonopotamus | and launching quake exclusively locked audio output so no other app could make any sound while it was running |
| 18:08.02 | nox- | yeah then you didnt have vchans (enabled) |
| 18:09.01 | slonopotamus | nox-, i don't say freebsd is bad. i have it on a couple of servers. it just happens that linux is easier to use on desktops thanks to wider hw support |
| 18:09.17 | slonopotamus | (whatever. we're completely off-topic) |
| 18:09.19 | nox- | yeah ok |
| 18:09.24 | nox- | that too :) |
| 18:11.23 | slonopotamus | n900-space, hmm... fedora still boots?!?! |
| 18:11.51 | BCMM | heh, i have a problem with the app manager |
| 18:12.12 | BCMM | "Unable to update 'Evince: Document Viewer'. Update file corrupted." |
| 18:12.17 | BCMM | but that isn't my problem |
| 18:12.21 | slonopotamus | try again? |
| 18:12.27 | BCMM | the problem is whether to click "yes" or "no"... |
| 18:12.36 | BCMM | (facepalm) |
| 18:12.39 | slonopotamus | :D |
| 18:12.43 | MNZ | XD |
| 18:12.58 | slonopotamus | lol :) |
| 18:13.03 | MNZ | well, evaluate whether or not it was unable to update |
| 18:13.04 | slonopotamus | quick, screenshot it |
| 18:13.09 | BCMM | i presume someone forgot to type "Try again?" |
| 18:13.10 | MNZ | if unable, then yes. |
| 18:13.20 | slonopotamus | BCMM, it deserves to be put on tdwtf |
| 18:13.21 | BCMM | what's the screenshot shortcut again? |
| 18:13.39 | slonopotamus | BCMM, take a photo, whatever :) |
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| 18:18.04 | mikki-kun | ctrl + shift + p i think it was |
| 18:18.13 | slonopotamus | n900-space, your fedora is kinda slow to boot up |
| 18:19.21 | n900-space | no my internet is slonopotamus |
| 18:19.34 | n900-space | and i was busy playing with n900 |
| 18:20.16 | n900-space | btw, any suggestions for a new laptop? |
| 18:20.59 | slonopotamus | suggests buying a new laptop |
| 18:21.03 | *** join/#maemo __al (~albert@tappan-125-136.eduroam.liu.se) |
| 18:21.21 | slonopotamus | n900-space, just don't buy broadcom wifi |
| 18:21.33 | slonopotamus | n900-space, all the rest is fixable |
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| 18:22.37 | n900-space | hmm |
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| 18:23.06 | n900-space | i think my dell laptop has a wifi hw from broadcom |
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| 18:23.32 | slonopotamus | you're lucky if it works properly |
| 18:23.52 | slonopotamus | it might not |
| 18:24.11 | n900-space | well its working right now |
| 18:24.31 | nox- | doesnt dell also do things like nonstandard psu-to-mobo plugs/pinouts? |
| 18:24.32 | n900-space | i'm connected to the last signals that my router broadcasts .. from far away |
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| 18:24.37 | n900-space | both my n900 and the laptop |
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| 18:25.58 | BCMM | what OS will you run on the laptop? |
| 18:26.46 | n900-space | linux and windows 7. on the development side, QT for some learning stuff, and sql servers and visual studio 2010 for office work BCMM |
| 18:27.14 | BCMM | i've had plenty of sorta-working wireless with linux |
| 18:27.25 | BCMM | and one very good completely solid atheros |
| 18:27.51 | slonopotamus | BCMM, intel wifi are most trouble-less |
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| 18:29.38 | n900-space | so i followed instructions here: |
| 18:29.39 | n900-space | http://pc-connectivity.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/node3.html#SECTION00032200000000000000 |
| 18:29.48 | BCMM | slonopotamus: not my experience |
| 18:29.54 | n900-space | for getting this pc connectivity software on my linux installation |
| 18:30.10 | BCMM | slonopotamus: i had one that would panic the kernel when disconnecting from certain networks |
| 18:30.13 | n900-space | but according to the website, when i do a |
| 18:30.22 | n900-space | yum check-update |
| 18:30.28 | BCMM | this was a few years ago and hte driver might be much better now |
| 18:30.30 | n900-space | it gives me the following problem: |
| 18:30.39 | *** join/#maemo citygent (citygent@support.team.at.shellium.org) |
| 18:30.49 | n900-space | Loaded plugins: presto, refresh-packagekit http://pc-connectivity.garage.maemo.org/yum/base/12/i386/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 14] HTTP Error 404 : http://pc-connectivity.garage.maemo.org/yum/base/12/i386/repodata/repomd.xml Trying other mirror. Error: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository: pc-connectivity. Please verify its path and try again |
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| 18:33.50 | slonopotamus | n900-space, maybe fedora11 is last thing it supports? |
| 18:34.16 | mikki-kun | hm, how can i disable myself the bootvideo of the n900 without installing any apps? |
| 18:34.26 | n900-space | the docs are old maybe |
| 18:34.47 | n900-space | but shouldnt that work in fc12 slonopotamus |
| 18:34.50 | n900-space | ? |
| 18:35.52 | slonopotamus | n900-space, try replacing 12 with 11 in your url. however it might not install/work |
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| 18:36.31 | slonopotamus | mikki-kun, by looking what those apps do and doing same thing by hand? |
| 18:36.52 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@252.244.broadband9.iol.cz) |
| 18:37.00 | slonopotamus | mikki-kun, i think you can install, disable video, uninstall |
| 18:37.57 | slonopotamus | n900-space, why you want maemo-pc-connectivity? |
| 18:38.22 | mikki-kun | thanks for the idea... i just thought somebody knows better already than i do |
| 18:39.04 | slonopotamus | n900-space, maybe you just want http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking ? |
| 18:39.24 | n900-space | I use that on windows to connect to n900, to do ssh and stuff. |
| 18:39.45 | slonopotamus | you don't need anything but wifi to do ssh |
| 18:39.45 | n900-space | yes actually usb networking is what i want on my linux laptop with n900 |
| 18:40.01 | slonopotamus | n900-space, just follow that page then |
| 18:40.47 | n900-space | lets say i'm not on a wifi, just the laptop and the n900 connected with a usb cable, for that. |
| 18:41.19 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@252.244.broadband9.iol.cz) |
| 18:41.25 | slonopotamus | n900-space, that page has all info you need to setup it |
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| 18:42.19 | n900-space | checking |
| 18:42.54 | *** join/#maemo guardian (~guardian@i07v-62-34-48-83.d4.club-internet.fr) |
| 18:49.52 | *** join/#maemo retro|cz (~retry2@125.151.broadband3.iol.cz) |
| 18:51.48 | n900-space | slonopotamus: once my n900 is connected to the laptop in usb mode, I want to use laptop's internet connection on my n900 (dont want n900 on wifi network cuz it keep disconnecting bcuz of weak signals) |
| 18:53.06 | slonopotamus | n900-space, you need to setup routing on laptop for that to work |
| 18:53.09 | SpacedOut | Is there something I'm supposed to manually do after upgrading the power kernel? I installed kernel-power 2.6.28-maemo40 on N900 and now that I rebooted it comes up with the blue Nokia text white background (usb icon), goes blank and doesn't do anything more. |
| 18:53.54 | slonopotamus | SpacedOut, weren't you told that overclocking is dangerous? :) |
| 18:54.31 | nid0 | installing power kernel != overclocking neccesarily |
| 18:54.49 | SpacedOut | slonopotamus: I didn't overclock, I just wanted to test the T-Mobile IPv6 datalink. |
| 18:54.57 | slonopotamus | n900-space, 1 sec, had a link nearby |
| 18:55.12 | SpacedOut | http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power ? |
| 18:57.04 | *** join/#maemo lbt (~david@Maemo/community/contributor/lbt) |
| 18:57.06 | SpacedOut | I guess I try doing a USB flash of the kernel. |
| 18:57.11 | slonopotamus | n900-space, http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking |
| 18:58.19 | slonopotamus | n900-space, it describes desktop setup so n900 can access internet via it |
| 18:58.27 | *** join/#maemo technomike_phone (~technomik@94-192-204-3.zone6.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:58.30 | technomike_phone | hey guys |
| 18:58.50 | technomike_phone | Can I use a 32gb microSD card on n900? |
| 18:59.13 | prozzerg | no, 16gb is max (if i remember the specs correctly) |
| 19:00.17 | technomike_phone | oh :( |
| 19:02.08 | slonopotamus | (cool quote in topic, btw) |
| 19:05.10 | *** join/#maemo marcels (~marcels@cm1017201-a.maast1.lb.home.nl) |
| 19:07.18 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
| 19:08.26 | ShadowJK | i think 32g works too |
| 19:08.39 | ShadowJK | it's just not tested by nokia because it didn't exist |
| 19:08.41 | *** join/#maemo Dakon (~eike@www.sf-tec.de) |
| 19:08.46 | *** join/#maemo tkharju (~tkharju@ip151.otanner14.opintanner.fi) |
| 19:08.51 | *** join/#maemo ClaesBas (~ClaesBas@stock-zit3.8.cust.blixtvik.net) |
| 19:08.54 | technomike_phone | Ah yeah! |
| 19:09.08 | technomike_phone | I am going to get a 32gb microsd |
| 19:09.35 | ShadowJK | they're so expensive |
| 19:09.46 | ShadowJK | are you that desperate for extra storage? :P |
| 19:10.13 | technomike_phone | Yeah but what do you think of the fake ones. I mean I know they aren't as fast but storage wise they are epic. |
| 19:10.14 | slonopotamus | technomike_phone has lots of porn |
| 19:10.20 | technomike_phone | Haha xD |
| 19:11.05 | slonopotamus | no other valid reason to take 2x32gb in a phone :) |
| 19:11.14 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Timur@host-94-248-205-46.kabelnet.hu) |
| 19:11.16 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@mm-26-134-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by) |
| 19:11.29 | technomike_phone | Hahaahah :P |
| 19:11.40 | technomike_phone | Good idea. Portable porn! |
| 19:11.46 | technomike_phone | xD |
| 19:12.07 | Dakon | has anyone an idea why my scratchbox can't connect to repository.maemo.org? |
| 19:12.14 | Dakon | resolv.conf if set correctly |
| 19:12.18 | slonopotamus | you can even share it via bluetooth! |
| 19:12.22 | technomike_phone | Hahaha |
| 19:12.41 | slonopotamus | Dakon, restarted scratchbox after computer boot? |
| 19:12.49 | technomike_phone | N900 is helping me learn linux more :D |
| 19:13.03 | slonopotamus | Dakon, can it connect anywhere else? |
| 19:13.07 | Dakon | yes |
| 19:13.21 | Dakon | no idea, there is no ping ;( |
| 19:13.41 | slonopotamus | facepalm.png |
| 19:14.38 | slonopotamus | Dakon, telnet, ssh, wget? it must have smth |
| 19:14.45 | Dakon | hm, no, doesn't look like |
| 19:15.16 | Dakon | I meant: it has ssh, but that also can't connect |
| 19:15.46 | ShadowJK | As far as I know, nobody besides Sandisk has 32gig microsd cards, so the "fakes" probably wrap around |
| 19:16.04 | ShadowJK | where wrap around means that as you start writing 17 gigabytes it's overwriting the first gig :) |
| 19:16.08 | slonopotamus | Dakon, by ip too? (to filter out dns troubles) |
| 19:16.24 | technomike_phone | ShadowJK :o oh |
| 19:16.33 | Dakon | hm, that works |
| 19:16.46 | technomike_phone | lucky you told me. Thanks. Definetly not going for that then :P |
| 19:17.02 | Dakon | pinging repository.maemo.org from outside the scratchbox works |
| 19:17.42 | *** join/#maemo n900-space (ca44b2c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.68.178.197) |
| 19:17.52 | n900-space | sigh |
| 19:18.09 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: I doubt they'd use expensive 16GB chips to fake a 32GB MMC |
| 19:18.11 | ShadowJK | technomike_phone, have you seen too-cheap-to-be-true 32g microsdhc? |
| 19:18.24 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, yeah it probably fucks up earlier :) |
| 19:18.52 | n900-space | slonopotamus: the moment i connect my n900 to my laptop, the laptop's wifi connection stops working |
| 19:18.56 | technomike_phone | "... do show 32GB and 16Gb in capacity, they do work but only up to 1GB if your lucky. " |
| 19:19.11 | technomike_phone | haha |
| 19:19.18 | ShadowJK | :) |
| 19:19.38 | technomike_phone | I will wait for drop in price of genuine |
| 19:21.55 | *** join/#maemo tkharju (~tkharju@ip151.otanner14.opintanner.fi) |
| 19:23.17 | slonopotamus | n900-space, sorry for outdated link. you want http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking |
| 19:23.42 | n900-space | aha |
| 19:23.51 | n900-space | np |
| 19:24.48 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@p1227-ipbf3907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 19:25.34 | slonopotamus | n900-space, that possibly means laptop takes wrong route (tries to go outside via usb, not via wifi). take a look at 'route -n' output when 'wifi stops working' as you say. and read through that new page, maybe it has explicit proper routes |
| 19:25.55 | technomike_phone | YES PHATE |
| 19:26.02 | technomike_phone | RENEGADE SNAREZ |
| 19:26.05 | technomike_phone | !!! |
| 19:26.18 | technomike_phone | GETTING BACK IN THE JUNGLE! |
| 19:26.20 | technomike_phone | man |
| 19:26.36 | technomike_phone | i want to go into the jungle for real |
| 19:26.51 | n900-space | ok i will slonopotamus , and thanks for helping out in getting the internet working on n900 too ! |
| 19:27.22 | technomike_phone | that was my friend typing in the wrong channel |
| 19:27.24 | technomike_phone | sorry guys |
| 19:27.53 | slonopotamus | got really weird pptp setup where default policy routed eth0 traffic _into_ pptp tunnel working over eth0 :D |
| 19:27.57 | BCMM | wow, freenode has a channel where that is normal? |
| 19:28.24 | n900-space | hehe |
| 19:28.28 | slonopotamus | BCMM, :D |
| 19:28.28 | technomike_phone | I am going to buy Joikuspot and check it out |
| 19:28.34 | technomike_phone | Have any of you guys got it |
| 19:28.49 | mikki-kun | technomike_phone: there is also "mobile hotspot" in the extras-testing repo |
| 19:29.04 | mikki-kun | relies on titan's custom kernel yet should be free |
| 19:29.06 | *** join/#maemo AlMehdi (~AlMehdi@c-db31e255.03-135-6c756c90.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 19:29.12 | mikki-kun | and sport the same features joiku does |
| 19:29.14 | *** join/#maemo angasule (~angasule@190.2.33.49) |
| 19:29.39 | cehteh | wishes for a real hotspot aka managed mode |
| 19:29.57 | cehteh | dhcp and all |
| 19:30.10 | technomike_phone | ah! |
| 19:30.25 | mikki-kun | but i haven't tried it as i don't have 3g, sadly |
| 19:30.26 | technomike_phone | thanks alot mikki-kun |
| 19:30.39 | technomike_phone | wow not having 3g |
| 19:30.42 | slonopotamus | n900-space, yeah, that link has some words on default gateway mess |
| 19:30.55 | technomike_phone | I am so used to having 3g everywhere i go here in uk |
| 19:30.56 | mikki-kun | no problem :) i saw it once and it got mentioned a couple of time somewhere so i decided to give it a look |
| 19:31.10 | technomike_phone | that its hard to imagine life without 3g |
| 19:31.49 | mikki-kun | if you know more about it could you please make a small review of that app? :) |
| 19:32.03 | mikki-kun | couldn't find any in particular |
| 19:32.12 | technomike_phone | Sure |
| 19:32.21 | technomike_phone | that would be cool |
| 19:32.42 | technomike_phone | What is the best custom kernel to use in your opinion |
| 19:32.54 | technomike_phone | I have kernel-power installed |
| 19:33.16 | slonopotamus | technomike_phone, the one that was configured by someone else |
| 19:33.29 | technomike_phone | haha what would that be |
| 19:34.26 | *** part/#maemo AlMehdi (~AlMehdi@c-db31e255.03-135-6c756c90.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 19:34.35 | SpacedOut | technomike_phone: Which version? I dorked up my device with the -40 version. |
| 19:34.39 | slonopotamus | i mean, not by yourself :) it becomes a really boring experience after you configure first 5-10 kernels |
| 19:35.00 | mikki-kun | slonopotamus: yet every time you seek the best performance i guess ;) |
| 19:35.27 | mikki-kun | not just randomly adding and removing stuff x) |
| 19:36.12 | mikki-kun | feels like yesterday when i was like "ughhh, what the?! is that important? i hope..." |
| 19:36.29 | technomike_phone | SpacedOut |
| 19:36.31 | slonopotamus | mikki-kun, after all, i ended up using genkernel. no visible performance loss/gain |
| 19:36.35 | technomike_phone | I am really not sure |
| 19:36.36 | mikki-kun | but uhm yeah, how could i make my own kernel vor the n900? |
| 19:36.48 | mikki-kun | *for |
| 19:36.48 | slonopotamus | mikki-kun, sure, why not |
| 19:36.50 | technomike_phone | I just typed apt-get install kernel-power |
| 19:37.03 | slonopotamus | oh, 'how' |
| 19:37.14 | mikki-kun | technomike_phone: i am running the -40 but something just doesn't seem to work with the apps i combine... either the kernel or i dunno what... |
| 19:37.30 | slonopotamus | as usual. get sources, get compiler, make menuconfig, make |
| 19:37.35 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 19:37.47 | SpacedOut | `dpkg -l kernel-power` then again it might only have been a problem on upgrading, I have no idea, I'm looking at the instructions for flashing over USB. |
| 19:37.48 | mikki-kun | i'd need to compile on arm-architecture, right? |
| 19:37.50 | technomike_phone | Well it seems a little unstable but it could just be me |
| 19:38.05 | slonopotamus | mikki-kun, or with a crosscompiler |
| 19:38.13 | SpacedOut | mikki-kun: That's what the SDK is for. |
| 19:38.22 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 19:38.44 | mikki-kun | SpacedOut: the sdk pulls in like "you need this and that"... it asks me to install previous versions of stuff i have >.< |
| 19:38.51 | slonopotamus | SpacedOut, you don't need 'SDK' to compile a kernel. you just need a toolchain. |
| 19:39.07 | mikki-kun | and i'd say if i need an sdk for making a kernel then somethign went awfully wrong with the design |
| 19:39.10 | jacekowski | toolchain is a part of SDK |
| 19:39.33 | slonopotamus | that doesn't mean you can't take only toolchain |
| 19:39.55 | mikki-kun | any way i can find out the parameters with which the kernel was compiled? |
| 19:40.10 | slonopotamus | mikki-kun, .config? |
| 19:40.26 | mikki-kun | slonopotamus: i meant if i have the kernel but not the .config |
| 19:40.34 | mikki-kun | or is that somewhere as well placed? |
| 19:40.53 | slonopotamus | mikki-kun, i think n900 config is present in n900 kernel package |
| 19:41.16 | slonopotamus | mikki-kun, or publically accessible nearby |
| 19:41.30 | mikki-kun | at least tian should have it |
| 19:41.33 | mikki-kun | *titan |
| 19:42.16 | mikki-kun | and ok, that's maybe a dumb question, but can i take another kernel-version? |
| 19:42.30 | mikki-kun | like 2.6.35? |
| 19:42.53 | luke-jr | no |
| 19:43.00 | slonopotamus | it'll be missing some stuff required for maemo |
| 19:43.15 | mikki-kun | hm, basically i'd just need to patch then the kernel |
| 19:43.16 | luke-jr | mikki-kun: Maemo isn't Linux, it's derived from Linux. |
| 19:43.18 | slonopotamus | mikki-kun, n900 kernel is somewhat patched |
| 19:43.29 | luke-jr | mikki-kun: porting stuff between versions is non-trivial |
| 19:43.47 | mikki-kun | maemo =! linux?! |
| 19:43.58 | Stskeeps | luke-jr's insane, don't mind him |
| 19:43.59 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 19:44.10 | luke-jr | mikki-kun: they took an old version of Linux, and modified it a lot |
| 19:44.15 | slonopotamus | mikki-kun, http://natisbad.org/N900/n900-custom-kernel.html |
| 19:44.29 | TomaszD | a lot? they didn't modify it enough |
| 19:44.33 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, it wasn't so old when they took it |
| 19:44.37 | TomaszD | for desktop performance for example |
| 19:44.38 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: it's old now! |
| 19:44.42 | mikki-kun | i hope some day we will be able to install gentoo properly on the n900 |
| 19:44.46 | mikki-kun | that would be enough for me |
| 19:44.57 | luke-jr | "properly"? |
| 19:45.02 | luke-jr | fremantle-sources works fine :P |
| 19:45.03 | slonopotamus | 'properly'? |
| 19:45.13 | luke-jr | meego-sources should work for Gentoo as well, but then you lose Maemo |
| 19:45.36 | mikki-kun | in particular i am very annoyed by e.g. no /var/log/dmesg or /var/log/messages |
| 19:45.48 | luke-jr | mikki-kun: none of my Gentoo systems have those either |
| 19:45.50 | luke-jr | metalog ftw |
| 19:46.16 | mikki-kun | hm, is that as well employed in maemo? |
| 19:46.20 | luke-jr | no |
| 19:46.22 | slonopotamus | mikki-kun, As of today (March 6th 2010), the N900 kernel is a Nokia-patched 2.6.28-omap1. Current stable version of 2.6.28 kernel series is version 10 (i.e. 2.6.28.10). The associated patch is more than 850 KB (wc reports 26418 lines for that baby). |
| 19:46.24 | luke-jr | but I run Gentoo |
| 19:46.26 | luke-jr | :p |
| 19:47.22 | Stskeeps | meh, go for 2.6.35 |
| 19:47.22 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 19:47.23 | Stskeeps | bbl |
| 19:47.26 | mikki-kun | i am runnign as well gentoo =p |
| 19:47.40 | luke-jr | so install metalog or whatever and be happy :P |
| 19:47.44 | mikki-kun | slonopotamus: you think we can share the lines? :D |
| 19:47.52 | mikki-kun | like 50:50 ^^''' |
| 19:47.58 | luke-jr | mikki-kun: no point |
| 19:48.07 | luke-jr | MeeGo already has a mostly ported 2.6.35 |
| 19:48.13 | luke-jr | but it's ported to N900, not to Maemo |
| 19:48.18 | luke-jr | because Maemo is dead |
| 19:48.34 | mikki-kun | well, mine dies after i reinstall all the apps i installed |
| 19:48.37 | mikki-kun | kinda... lame |
| 19:48.44 | mikki-kun | on a reinstall |
| 19:48.48 | luke-jr | mikki-kun: so install Gentoo instead of Maemo? :P |
| 19:48.58 | luke-jr | actually, I don't think you can get rid of Maemo entirely yet :\ |
| 19:49.12 | mikki-kun | i would love to, but the poor cpu would fry before it would be all compiled :( |
| 19:49.19 | luke-jr | mikki-kun: mine didn't. |
| 19:49.22 | luke-jr | yours is that old? |
| 19:49.45 | mikki-kun | uhhh, on your n900? |
| 19:49.48 | luke-jr | yeah |
| 19:50.01 | mikki-kun | hm, how long did it take you? |
| 19:50.08 | ShadowJK | <Stskeeps> luke-jr's insane, don't mind him |
| 19:50.10 | luke-jr | also, according to cpufreq-info, I only use 600 MHz for 3.15% of the time |
| 19:50.17 | ShadowJK | insane gentoo users :) |
| 19:50.18 | luke-jr | mikki-kun: I forget, a few days? |
| 19:50.24 | mikki-kun | lol |
| 19:50.38 | luke-jr | updates usually finish overnight |
| 19:50.49 | luke-jr | notes he used Gentoo on his old 800 MHz desktop too |
| 19:50.53 | slonopotamus | mikki-kun, n900 is clockable up to 1.1GHz, that's pretty a lot |
| 19:50.55 | luke-jr | and that was no doubt slower than N900 |
| 19:51.01 | johnsq | mikki-kun: corei7 qemu compiles in about 24h |
| 19:51.07 | mikki-kun | slonopotamus: and reducing it's lifetime badly |
| 19:51.16 | luke-jr | mikki-kun: 600 MHz is enough |
| 19:51.33 | slonopotamus | mikki-kun, 600 is still not-so-bad |
| 19:51.46 | mikki-kun | luke-jr: at times it feels like i'd need a gazillion hertz |
| 19:51.52 | luke-jr | mikki-kun: impatient.. |
| 19:52.01 | mikki-kun | badly written code i guess |
| 19:52.23 | mikki-kun | or way too heavy on the poor hardware |
| 19:52.24 | luke-jr | actually, it'd be far easier if you ran a recent Linux port |
| 19:52.29 | *** join/#maemo luizirber (~luizirber@187.39.189.160) |
| 19:52.42 | mikki-kun | like which one? |
| 19:52.43 | luke-jr | mikki-kun: again, I used Gentoo back when 800 MHz was the norm for desktops⦠it's bearable |
| 19:52.53 | luke-jr | mikki-kun: like one with proper I/O prioritization ;) |
| 19:53.03 | mikki-kun | n280 here @ 1.66 |
| 19:53.04 | luke-jr | so you can just set emerge to "bulk" I/O priority |
| 19:53.09 | slonopotamus | wonders why everyone _suddenly_ stopped talking about mmc wear-out and switched to overclocking-is-dangerous |
| 19:53.15 | mikki-kun | so i know what it means to have 'slow' speeds |
| 19:53.22 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~neopwn@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 19:53.26 | mikki-kun | mmc wear-out? |
| 19:53.31 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: we read the OMAP specs :P |
| 19:53.31 | mikki-kun | did i miss a hype? :o |
| 19:53.45 | luke-jr | at 600 MHz, the OMAP will last less than a year |
| 19:54.02 | luke-jr | and that time drops off fast as you overclock more |
| 19:54.09 | mikki-kun | luke-jr: i didn't, i just know it makes logical sense why TI said that cpu is actually for (was it really?) 500MhZ |
| 19:54.19 | *** join/#maemo tonikitoo| (~tonikitoo@201-75-89-250-ma.cpe.vivax.com.br) |
| 19:54.29 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, n900 swaps to builtin, <irreplaceable!!!111!11!> mmc |
| 19:54.46 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: by default |
| 19:54.46 | slonopotamus | it'll definitely wear out in a moment |
| 19:54.58 | Venemo | alterego: ping |
| 19:55.01 | Venemo | ~seen alterego |
| 19:55.07 | infobot | alterego is currently on #maemo, last said: 'Depends who's justifying it.'. |
| 19:55.07 | mikki-kun | slonopotamus: take a fine saw and saw it off, take the new one, use duct-tape and wd40 and it'll work like a charm! |
| 19:55.07 | luke-jr | in Gentoo, I swap to MicroSD |
| 19:55.30 | luke-jr | infobot: fail |
| 19:55.30 | infobot | FAIL. |
| 19:55.36 | mikki-kun | :D |
| 19:55.44 | luke-jr | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:55.47 | mikki-kun | uhhh... shouldn't it be 'FAIL!' |
| 19:56.21 | ShadowJK | i read a datasheet for an mmc once, did the math, and concluded it'd take ages to wear out at constant 1.5Meg/s rate (which was what I was doing with that thing at the timej |
| 19:56.55 | luke-jr | heh |
| 19:57.07 | luke-jr | eMMC's solution to swap wear-out problem: slow down the data rate to make it take longer |
| 19:57.39 | ShadowJK | it doesn't have the resources to do it fast :) |
| 19:57.41 | mikki-kun | do faster eMMCs therefore die faster? |
| 19:57.42 | luke-jr | I'll stick to the throwaway fast MicroSD cards |
| 19:57.53 | luke-jr | ShadowJK: my MicroSDs are faster than the eMMC |
| 19:58.07 | mikki-kun | luke-jr: which ones are you using? class 12? Ã.ö |
| 19:58.12 | luke-jr | mikki-kun: no clue |
| 19:58.16 | luke-jr | whatever I had lying around |
| 19:58.25 | mikki-kun | then how can you say yours are faster than the emmc? |
| 19:58.43 | luke-jr | dd says so |
| 19:58.49 | ShadowJK | also since only stuff you manually force to use the microsd, it gets much faster |
| 19:58.52 | slonopotamus | mikki-kun, mmc wear-out was as FUD as current overclocking-is-dangerous stuff |
| 19:58.55 | *** join/#maemo ohwhyme (ohwhyme@cpc2-hari8-0-0-cust116.hari.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 19:59.06 | luke-jr | ShadowJK: I forget if I had swap disabled or not |
| 19:59.08 | ShadowJK | because sd/(e)mmc really hates seeks |
| 19:59.21 | slonopotamus | ... |
| 19:59.38 | ShadowJK | even with swap disabled it'll do demand paging of stuff in /opt |
| 19:59.56 | luke-jr | ShadowJK: Maemo mayeb |
| 20:00.00 | luke-jr | I'll have to retest under Gentoo |
| 20:00.05 | ShadowJK | slonopotamus, when writing, pure read-only random access is fast |
| 20:00.37 | slonopotamus | err...wut? |
| 20:00.40 | ShadowJK | iirc I got about 6meg/s write speed on the emmc |
| 20:01.02 | ShadowJK | slonopotamus, on as/(e)mmc random access write is superslow |
| 20:01.17 | luke-jr | err, wtf |
| 20:01.20 | luke-jr | my Gentoo won't boot anymore |
| 20:01.32 | slonopotamus | ShadowJK, slower than on hdd? in % |
| 20:01.32 | ShadowJK | like that 6meg/s degrades easily to 200kbyte/s |
| 20:01.37 | slonopotamus | meh |
| 20:01.58 | slonopotamus | random writes on hdd easily degrade to 10kbyte/s |
| 20:02.06 | slonopotamus | well, maybe 20 |
| 20:02.11 | *** join/#maemo tonikitoo| (~tonikitoo@201-75-89-250-ma.cpe.vivax.com.br) |
| 20:02.12 | ShadowJK | no way :) |
| 20:02.34 | slonopotamus | single seek is 5-10ms |
| 20:02.45 | Venemo | ~seen lcuk |
| 20:02.48 | infobot | lcuk <lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 4h 35m 43s ago, saying: '" a little bit "'. |
| 20:03.08 | Venemo | http://mellbimbo.eu/files/33293.jpg -> lcuk would have liked this |
| 20:04.23 | slonopotamus | !!! select error: (4, 'Interrupted system call') |
| 20:04.26 | *** join/#maemo rblank (~rblank@83.219.114.94) |
| 20:05.31 | luke-jr | CRAP |
| 20:05.36 | luke-jr | Gentoo requires R&D mode to boot â¹ |
| 20:05.53 | slonopotamus | how you managed to do that? |
| 20:06.06 | luke-jr | watchdogs? |
| 20:06.14 | slonopotamus | oh |
| 20:06.18 | mikki-kun | LOL |
| 20:06.24 | slonopotamus | write a wd kicker |
| 20:06.27 | luke-jr | :/ |
| 20:06.33 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: it's before 'boot' runlevel |
| 20:06.36 | jacekowski | watchdog is enabled only if you kick it |
| 20:06.37 | slonopotamus | better as an in-kernel driver |
| 20:06.42 | jacekowski | so untill fist kick it's disabled |
| 20:06.53 | jacekowski | slonopotamus: in-kernel kicker is bad idea |
| 20:06.57 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil1 (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 20:07.01 | jacekowski | slonopotamus: it won't detect userland malfunction |
| 20:07.09 | slonopotamus | jacekowski, watchdog is a bad idea |
| 20:07.37 | slonopotamus | software charger is an insamely bad idea |
| 20:07.41 | slonopotamus | :P |
| 20:08.05 | slonopotamus | expecially userspace software charger |
| 20:08.15 | slonopotamus | s/xp/sp/ |
| 20:08.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | slonopotamus: write a kernel module to kick a kernel module??? X-P |
| 20:08.33 | mikki-kun | that's a cool idea |
| 20:08.47 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer51, there's hw wd, no? |
| 20:08.50 | luke-jr | it's the OMAP WD |
| 20:09.00 | slonopotamus | i win |
| 20:09.05 | mikki-kun | CONFIG_GTFO! <-- that'll be a good name for it i guess ^^ |
| 20:09.13 | luke-jr | disabling only the OMAP WD boots |
| 20:09.51 | ShadowJK | slonopotamus, here's a graph: http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/thessdanthology_031809001858/18643.png |
| 20:10.07 | ShadowJK | notice the harddrives outperforming the jmicron based SSDs :) |
| 20:10.19 | ShadowJK | and samsung.. |
| 20:10.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | slonopotamus: there's n9 autonomous hw wd, and there's no such thing like a sw charger, in N900 |
| 20:10.42 | SpeedEvil | yeah - 4K random write is pessimal |
| 20:10.44 | SpeedEvil | Pretty much |
| 20:10.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | s/n9/no/ |
| 20:11.02 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: Do you happen to have 64K and 128K random write? |
| 20:11.10 | ShadowJK | nop |
| 20:11.31 | ShadowJK | http://www.anandtech.com/show/2738/25 |
| 20:11.46 | luke-jr | "You need to also disable watchdogs if you are not using the closed components, especially the Battery Management Entity (BME). This can be done similarly to above, except the flasher command is following: sudo flasher-3.5 âenable-rd-mode âset-rd-flags=no-omap-wd,no-ext-wd" |
| 20:11.56 | *** join/#maemo Fredrik1994 (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 20:12.15 | mikki-kun | whoah, seeing my ssd at place two for random writes @ 4K is nice :) |
| 20:12.29 | slonopotamus | ShadowJK, conclusion - everything but intel ssd under random writes = epic fail |
| 20:12.53 | ShadowJK | slonopotamus, well this article was written a few years ago |
| 20:13.07 | ShadowJK | the author was so pissed off at the ssd in his laptop |
| 20:13.24 | slonopotamus | ShadowJK, well, there are more ssds now |
| 20:13.29 | crashanddie | ShadowJK: how come intel manage to have drives that are so superior |
| 20:13.32 | ShadowJK | it would randomly freeze for a second when writing IMs or clicking a link |
| 20:13.42 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk) |
| 20:13.46 | crashanddie | ShadowJK: i mean, where did the technology come from? Did they buy some company, or was it in-house tech? |
| 20:13.52 | ShadowJK | music would stutter when switching from one app to another or opening a new window |
| 20:14.26 | luke-jr | eMMC swap partition: read=12.4 MB/s, write=3.1 MB/s |
| 20:14.27 | *** join/#maemo DangerMaus (~eeeeeeeee@tuxhacker/loft306) |
| 20:14.39 | ShadowJK | crashanddie, basically everyone else was focusing on sequential read/write because that's what every review site tested |
| 20:14.49 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, moved to xorg-1.8 already? |
| 20:14.52 | mikki-kun | hm... funny, with the flasher i get via usb around 12MB/sec write.... |
| 20:14.58 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: dunno, whatever's stable |
| 20:15.13 | ShadowJK | intel benchmarked slower than competition in those stupid benchmarks |
| 20:15.21 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, 1.8 is the first one to drop hal |
| 20:15.22 | ShadowJK | but real life performance was superior |
| 20:15.29 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: HAL was always optional |
| 20:15.36 | crashanddie | ShadowJK: and then the testors went "eh?" when they noticed the machine actually worked a whole lot faster? |
| 20:15.46 | *** join/#maemo perlite (~perlite@111-240-205-100.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 20:15.52 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, yeah, but now it is deprecated completely |
| 20:16.01 | crashanddie | ShadowJK: do you know the curent price point of SSD (and more specifically, Intel)? |
| 20:16.07 | ShadowJK | What the SSD has to do is run a log structred filesystem ontop of the ssds. Treat the ssd like a tape drive, writing into a circular buffer |
| 20:16.09 | mikki-kun | slonopotamus: you can still use hal, last version |
| 20:16.14 | SpeedEvil | crashanddie: you need to actually do a lot more expensive and complex block control to get good random write perrfrmance. |
| 20:16.36 | ShadowJK | crashanddie, well doesn't amazon know.. |
| 20:16.44 | ShadowJK | or newegg, whatever |
| 20:16.44 | luke-jr | MicroSD swap partition: read=20 MB/s, write=3.4 MB/s |
| 20:17.10 | MohammadAG51 | hey lcuk |
| 20:17.15 | ShadowJK | ocz vertex is also good. Anand basically yelled at ocx until they gave in and made the first non-intel non-shit ssd ;p |
| 20:17.18 | slonopotamus | mikki-kun, i'd like to remove it completely, but k3b doesn't work then :( |
| 20:17.19 | lcuk | hey MohammadAG51, is it tomorrow? |
| 20:17.20 | mikki-kun | lol... really i don't know whether to laugh or cry, but that is just insane |
| 20:17.21 | nox- | `real' blocksize on ssds is some 128 or 256 K, right? |
| 20:17.28 | ShadowJK | nox-, yes |
| 20:17.40 | crashanddie | hmm... Intel X25 is still roughly at around $2.6 per gig |
| 20:17.53 | nox- | so its a bit like the worries ppl have about 4k sectors on harddrives now... |
| 20:18.07 | SpeedEvil | nox-: sort-of, yes. |
| 20:18.10 | mikki-kun | slonopotamus: well here in gentoo i can tell it to remove hal from it... it worked, but then i decided to remake my netbook and haven't had since then the motivation to go again to 1.8 ^^'' |
| 20:18.20 | ShadowJK | Anyway, the jmicron ones are essentially a shitload of mmc/sd in striped raid-0 :) |
| 20:18.34 | mikki-kun | nox-: my x25-m g2 has 512B |
| 20:18.36 | ShadowJK | which is why they were crap |
| 20:18.44 | ShadowJK | mikki-kun, it lies |
| 20:18.50 | ShadowJK | everything lies |
| 20:18.50 | nox- | mikki-kun, internal blocksize i meant |
| 20:19.05 | nox- | (some 4k harddrives also lie btw) |
| 20:19.19 | mikki-kun | hm, may i ask how i can look that up? |
| 20:19.25 | mikki-kun | so i can report what mine says |
| 20:19.37 | ShadowJK | it's usually considered proprietary information |
| 20:20.02 | crashanddie | ShadowJK: it's a shame that HDs are still at $.2 per gig, or might just jump the gun |
| 20:21.14 | ShadowJK | Anyway, what x25-m does internally is something like: when host writes blocks 2, 98, 37, 4, x25-m internally writes 9,10,11,12.. and obviously keeps a table so it knows which sectors to read when host wants to read stuff.. |
| 20:21.31 | SpeedEvil | crashanddie: Well... |
| 20:21.46 | MohammadAG51 | lcuk, it? is? |
| 20:21.46 | SpeedEvil | crashanddie: It doesn't matter at some point, if it's big enough. |
| 20:22.07 | MohammadAG51 | it's never tomorrow anyways :P |
| 20:22.08 | SpeedEvil | crashanddie: I'm about to setup a couple of low-power laptops with 4G 'SSD' |
| 20:22.13 | ShadowJK | I'd have a small-ish OS ssdrive, and big harddrive for "media" |
| 20:22.24 | crashanddie | SpeedEvil: sure, i'd just like to have something above 200gig (200gig is the bare minimum on a everyday laptop anyway) under $300 |
| 20:22.25 | SpeedEvil | (really SD in a adaptor) |
| 20:22.30 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (~magao@84.79.25.26) |
| 20:22.33 | ShadowJK | sleeps |
| 20:22.41 | crashanddie | ShadowJK: doesn't really work on a laptop, does it? |
| 20:22.44 | MohammadAG51 | hmm, w00t_ ping? |
| 20:23.03 | crashanddie | waves at MohammadAG51 |
| 20:23.05 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: don't forget the decent RAM buffers in decent SSD |
| 20:23.12 | MohammadAG51 | waves at crashanddie |
| 20:23.25 | MohammadAG51 | starting school tomorrow, you won't see me a lot here :( |
| 20:23.31 | mikki-kun | what is actually the internal blocksize? |
| 20:23.35 | DocScrutinizer | wut?? |
| 20:23.42 | lcuk | MohammadAG51, I think tonight I am going to sit back in bed and write some code |
| 20:23.42 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: good luck mate |
| 20:23.54 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: which year/section? |
| 20:24.06 | MohammadAG51 | 12th year, last one |
| 20:24.08 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: that's unacceptable |
| 20:24.10 | SpeedEvil | mikki-kun: ~128K |
| 20:24.16 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, at one point I did the math and concluded the size of such a mapping table was same as the declared ram size of the ssd.. |
| 20:24.17 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: specialising in? |
| 20:24.24 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: no university after that? |
| 20:24.32 | ShadowJK | so it probably doesn't buffer as much as you'd think |
| 20:24.39 | MohammadAG51 | still haven't decided what I'm going to do |
| 20:24.49 | MohammadAG51 | but yeah.. I probably should |
| 20:24.57 | crashanddie | get a least a smallish degree |
| 20:24.59 | DocScrutinizer | well when it buffers the table plus one or two blocks that's enough |
| 20:25.04 | SpeedEvil | crashanddie: If structured right, you can put it in flash. |
| 20:25.04 | crashanddie | like a bachelor's or something |
| 20:25.14 | SpeedEvil | crashanddie: largely |
| 20:25.20 | crashanddie | SpeedEvil: eh? |
| 20:25.21 | MohammadAG51 | this is high school mate |
| 20:25.26 | MohammadAG51 | not uni :P |
| 20:25.35 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: well, the year after is uni, right? |
| 20:25.39 | MohammadAG51 | yes |
| 20:25.39 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 20:25.49 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: start thinking about it |
| 20:25.54 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: f structured right, you can put it in flash. |
| 20:26.01 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: look into international studies, they make studying very fun |
| 20:26.13 | *** join/#maemo trumee (~nobody@cpc5-cmbg14-0-0-cust982.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 20:26.37 | MohammadAG51 | crashanddie, I'm looking forward to Uni outside of IL :P |
| 20:26.42 | MohammadAG51 | this country's dead |
| 20:26.45 | MohammadAG51 | night life sucks |
| 20:26.50 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: erasmus, crossroads, via domitia, there's plenty of funds and scholarships you can apply for |
| 20:27.07 | crashanddie | but you need to do it early and soon -- it's burocracy, takes decades |
| 20:28.26 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: UK has good unis, germany has too. France only if you can stand it, and then sweden or denmark. I wouldn't recommend the US, way too far and very little international scholarships |
| 20:29.09 | MNZ | ok folks, what does flaher-3.5 -b do exactly? out with it now |
| 20:29.19 | MohammadAG51 | hmm, well, studying in Europe shouldn't be hard, I'm not passing the arabic crap |
| 20:29.25 | crashanddie | MNZ: rtfm |
| 20:29.30 | *** join/#maemo srw (~swo@pD9E3ECB0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:29.35 | MNZ | crashanddie, that's the problem, I rtfm |
| 20:29.44 | MohammadAG51 | doing my final GCEs this year |
| 20:29.59 | MNZ | fm = boot. IRL = instant brick |
| 20:30.01 | luke-jr | MNZ: rtfm again |
| 20:30.08 | luke-jr | it boots for me |
| 20:30.20 | luke-jr | but I use 3.0 |
| 20:30.24 | MohammadAG51 | ~debian MNZ |
| 20:30.24 | infobot | ACTION tells MNZ to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! |
| 20:30.57 | MNZ | :S I RTFMed. More than once. Also, now flashing with the stock kernel and still bricked. WTF? |
| 20:31.13 | luke-jr | if you can flash, it ain't bricked |
| 20:31.15 | crashanddie | MNZ: it adds a command that will be passed to the kernel |
| 20:31.18 | luke-jr | brick = broken NOLO |
| 20:31.25 | luke-jr | crashanddie: that never works tho |
| 20:31.37 | MohammadAG51 | can't nolo be fixed with a cold flash? |
| 20:31.40 | crashanddie | just because the kernel/bootloader is broken |
| 20:31.48 | trumee | guys, how do i identify what repo does a package belong to? |
| 20:31.52 | luke-jr | MohammadAG51: sure, but can you even cold flash N900? |
| 20:31.57 | MohammadAG51 | yes |
| 20:32.01 | luke-jr | MohammadAG51: cold flash means you wire direct to the flash chip |
| 20:32.06 | MohammadAG51 | i know |
| 20:32.06 | DocScrutinizer | incredible, N900 got so fsckdup by unknown reason, I had to remove battery to 'unbrick' it. Would really feel like a brick, with no reaction to power button. Funny enough it reacted to USB charger plugin |
| 20:32.08 | luke-jr | I doubt it's exposed |
| 20:32.20 | MohammadAG51 | err, flasher-3.5 --cold-flash |
| 20:32.34 | trumee | i tried "apt-cache depends frogatto-engine" and it gave me a list of packages. How do i identify what repo they belong to? |
| 20:33.04 | luke-jr | MohammadAG51: hum, sounds like a serial port thing |
| 20:33.08 | MNZ | on a totally unrelated note though, MohammadAG51 what ALs are you doing? |
| 20:33.19 | slonopotamus | trumee, that's the key question to understand deb |
| 20:33.20 | luke-jr | MohammadAG51: I destroyed my N810 battery trying to get to its serial port |
| 20:33.53 | MohammadAG51 | luke-jr, could be, but... -U, --usb-device=ARG Specify USB device to use (bus:device address) |
| 20:33.58 | trumee | slonopotamus: i am more of a gentoo ebuild guy than a deb guy :) |
| 20:34.05 | slonopotamus | huh |
| 20:34.06 | luke-jr | MohammadAG51: that's not for cold flahs |
| 20:34.12 | DocScrutinizer | pokes crashanddie and glares. rogue sw?? |
| 20:34.17 | MohammadAG51 | MNZ, err, ALs? :) |
| 20:34.27 | slonopotamus | gentooers occupying #maemo |
| 20:34.41 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: Maemo is dead. Gentoo naturally conquers all. |
| 20:35.11 | MNZ | MohammadAG51, AL == A Level == GCE. Or what do you guys call it there? |
| 20:35.16 | luke-jr | trumee: in case you missed it, Gentoo requires R&D mode for now â¹ |
| 20:35.17 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, who's next, meego? :) |
| 20:35.24 | MohammadAG51 | oh, sorry, we don't use the term AL :P |
| 20:35.28 | trumee | i tried "apt-cache showpkg" but i guess it lists all the versions instead of just installed version. |
| 20:35.30 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: they won't know what hit them! |
| 20:35.46 | slonopotamus | :D |
| 20:35.55 | nox- | trumee, if the package is installed: apt-cache policy foo |
| 20:35.55 | MohammadAG51 | Biology Physics Chemistry, Core maths and Stats (afaik one A level), as well as arabic |
| 20:36.03 | trumee | nox-: thanks |
| 20:36.55 | slonopotamus | nox-, have you tried that? |
| 20:37.04 | trumee | luke-jr: does nitdroid need R&D mode too? if not, why does gentoo? |
| 20:37.06 | MohammadAG51 | I can't see myself compiling on each installation of an app :P |
| 20:37.10 | slonopotamus | nox-, it shows only part of the url |
| 20:37.12 | MNZ | meh. so I managed to get the phone into vibrator mode again |
| 20:37.25 | MohammadAG51 | trumee, it depends on how the dev makes priorities |
| 20:37.43 | MohammadAG51 | for example, I'm not interested in fixing it atm on NITUbuntu |
| 20:37.54 | MohammadAG51 | i'm interested in getting ofono working |
| 20:37.54 | luke-jr | trumee: no idea |
| 20:37.57 | slonopotamus | MohammadAG51, that prevents you from running every thing you see on the web though :) |
| 20:38.06 | MNZ | vibrator mode = boot -> vibrate -> reboot. Good for..err..vibrating :/ |
| 20:38.09 | luke-jr | trumee: the stupid watchdog kills Gentoo w/o |
| 20:38.16 | nox- | slonopotamus, ah hm, have to look in sources.list then too |
| 20:38.24 | MohammadAG51 | luke-jr, scripts in init to fix it |
| 20:38.38 | luke-jr | MohammadAG51: init doesn't get a chance to start |
| 20:38.45 | MohammadAG51 | o_O |
| 20:38.52 | luke-jr | it's still waiting on udev probing |
| 20:39.03 | slonopotamus | nox-, for maemo repos, it doesn't show enough to understand which of extras-* it is |
| 20:39.22 | nox- | hm ok :( |
| 20:39.24 | luke-jr | I suppose udev can be configured to do it, but then it's a close call |
| 20:39.24 | slonopotamus | err |
| 20:39.31 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, wait |
| 20:39.45 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: no |
| 20:39.46 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, on n8x0 we were kicking wd in linuxrc |
| 20:40.02 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: on N8x0, we had an initfs with BME |
| 20:40.18 | DocScrutinizer | MNZ: Flash eMMC, *DO NOT BOOT*, flash rootfs |
| 20:40.23 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, yeah, but still, linuxrc has smth wrt wd |
| 20:40.34 | jacekowski | well, it should be done in a way that kernel inits hardware and keeps it running |
| 20:40.35 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: not the one I wrote for N900 :P |
| 20:40.47 | jacekowski | untill userland is ready to take over |
| 20:40.51 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, /usr/sbin/dsmetool --root-mounted |
| 20:41.03 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: no DSME |
| 20:41.04 | MNZ | DocScrutinizer, I was thinking rootfs flash first to see if it will boot? besides I didn't mess with anything except the kernel, this shouldn't be happening :@ |
| 20:41.49 | DocScrutinizer | MNZ flashing eMMC after boot of rootfs will "brick" |
| 20:41.56 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, afair, that tells dsme to start a thing that'll kick wd each N secs |
| 20:42.02 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: there is no DSME |
| 20:42.30 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, so you need some other kind of a kicker |
| 20:42.39 | trumee | nox-: "apt-get policy" doesnt mention that package came from extras-devel? |
| 20:43.03 | jacekowski | slonopotamus: WD is stopped untill first kick |
| 20:43.21 | slonopotamus | jacekowski, doesn't kernel kick it? |
| 20:43.23 | MNZ | DocScrutinizer, what? but my eMMC is intact! I just flashed with a new kernel I built, it didn't boot |
| 20:43.26 | DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: listen to jacekowski |
| 20:43.34 | luke-jr | jacekowski: not so |
| 20:43.35 | trumee | i want to find out whether an installed package came from extras-devel or not? |
| 20:43.38 | slonopotamus | jacekowski, until userspace is working |
| 20:43.44 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: why? he is wrong :P |
| 20:43.54 | DocScrutinizer | no he's not |
| 20:44.10 | luke-jr | WD is killing the system before it even starts the boot process |
| 20:44.20 | jacekowski | luke-jr: that WD has like 120s timeout |
| 20:44.22 | DocScrutinizer | the only question is WHO is actually kicking the hw wd |
| 20:44.33 | luke-jr | jacekowski: so boot to where it reboots |
| 20:44.37 | *** join/#maemo mikki-kun (~mikki-kun@182.52.83.247) |
| 20:44.47 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: must be NOLO |
| 20:45.03 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: that's absolute nonsense. How would the system ever boot then? |
| 20:45.08 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: nfc |
| 20:45.16 | trumee | slonopotamus: i want to find out whether an installed package came from extras-devel or not? |
| 20:45.19 | luke-jr | BME is fast? |
| 20:45.19 | jacekowski | hmm |
| 20:45.24 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: he might be right |
| 20:45.28 | jacekowski | iirc there was wd code in nolo |
| 20:45.33 | jacekowski | let me just verify it |
| 20:45.39 | DocScrutinizer | regarding NOLO he might be right |
| 20:46.02 | DocScrutinizer | but running nolo is a booted up device, at least from my POV |
| 20:46.03 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: "boot process" as in init scripts |
| 20:46.31 | jacekowski | yep |
| 20:46.37 | jacekowski | nolo kicks watchdog |
| 20:46.42 | luke-jr | I suppose maybe I could have linuxrc kick the WD one more time before it starts /sbin/init |
| 20:47.00 | slonopotamus | trumee, fella gentooer, i have no idea how the hell this damn apt is supposed to be used. to me, it's totally broken and lacking even basic functionality (like --depclean) |
| 20:47.28 | trumee | slonopotamus: no worries |
| 20:47.55 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: yep, and flasher --nowatchdog (or whatever it's called) tells NOLO not to do that |
| 20:48.00 | slonopotamus | and no, apt-get autoremove is broken too. |
| 20:48.04 | DocScrutinizer | that's the whole simple story |
| 20:48.24 | jacekowski | question is |
| 20:48.35 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: problem is that requires R&D mode which kills battery life |
| 20:48.36 | jacekowski | is it good idea for bootloader to kick watchdog |
| 20:48.53 | MNZ | quick question, what's fiasco? |
| 20:48.57 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, question: WHY |
| 20:49.05 | jacekowski | MNZ: combined image |
| 20:49.05 | slonopotamus | why R&D mode kills battery life btw? |
| 20:49.10 | jacekowski | slonopotamus: it doesn't |
| 20:49.12 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: it forces keyboard light on constantly |
| 20:49.18 | jacekowski | slonopotamus: well flashing keyboard leds maybe |
| 20:49.21 | DocScrutinizer | ~dict fiasco |
| 20:49.23 | jacekowski | luke-jr: that can be disabled |
| 20:49.24 | slonopotamus | oh my |
| 20:49.26 | luke-jr | jacekowski: can it? |
| 20:49.28 | jacekowski | ~fiasco |
| 20:49.29 | infobot | L4-compatible real-time microkernel capable of running Linux in usermode. URL: http://os.inf.tu-dresden.de/fiasco/ |
| 20:49.39 | luke-jr | O.l |
| 20:49.46 | luke-jr | is that fiasco related? |
| 20:49.49 | jacekowski | no |
| 20:50.03 | jacekowski | but i was just wondering what's under that factoid |
| 20:50.04 | MNZ | ah... I was using the -k option with the image instead of -F ...... that's why it wasn't working |
| 20:50.15 | MNZ | so -k is for...? |
| 20:50.19 | MNZ | a kernel image |
| 20:50.20 | luke-jr | MNZ: -k just loads a kernel temporarily IIRC |
| 20:50.29 | luke-jr | maybe requires another option |
| 20:50.40 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: (forces kbd light) that's easily switched off by sysnode |
| 20:50.46 | luke-jr | jacekowski: which WD is it, do you know? |
| 20:50.58 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: how? |
| 20:51.12 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: note the forced kbd light is not something userspace |
| 20:51.12 | slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer, is jrbme ready yet? :P |
| 20:51.19 | luke-jr | and I would guess not kernelspace |
| 20:51.32 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: note sysfs is also something not userspace |
| 20:51.34 | DocScrutinizer | :p |
| 20:52.02 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: so this is some non-standard kernel feature? |
| 20:52.19 | jacekowski | luke-jr: 32khz one |
| 20:52.23 | luke-jr | jacekowski: ? |
| 20:52.30 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: is sysfs content anything standard anyway? |
| 20:52.37 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: yes. |
| 20:52.51 | luke-jr | jacekowski: twl4030_wdt or watchdog? |
| 20:52.51 | DocScrutinizer | so is this particular sysnode then |
| 20:52.52 | slonopotamus | some new stuff for my n800... |
| 20:52.54 | slonopotamus | >>> Emerging binary (3 of 66) sys-apps/coreutils-8.5 |
| 20:54.24 | keesj | http://www.nu.nl/gadgets/2321918/progressie-android-nokia-telefoons.html (while about android it the first time I see the n900 mentioned on that normal news site) |
| 20:55.02 | slonopotamus | telefoons... :P |
| 20:55.12 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: you're so cute, why don't you simply look at schematics, find out about which GPIO enables that switch which enables the KBD flickering, and then grep kernel source to find where in sysfs to switch it? |
| 20:56.00 | jacekowski | luke-jr: twl4030 |
| 20:56.14 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: I wasn't aware the schematics were freely available |
| 20:56.21 | jacekowski | and watchdog should be it's alias anyways |
| 20:56.30 | DocScrutinizer | (fiasco) iirc the *original* meaning is flask |
| 20:56.37 | luke-jr | jacekowski: no, they're different watchdogs⦠|
| 20:56.39 | DocScrutinizer | (italian) |
| 20:56.47 | jacekowski | but |
| 20:57.05 | jacekowski | that watchdog can be disabled |
| 20:57.15 | kerio | i can confirm, fiasco means flask |
| 20:57.20 | kerio | it also means failure though |
| 20:57.26 | kerio | (in italian) |
| 20:57.40 | *** part/#maemo Snusmumriken (~mli@43.169.216.81.static.s-k.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 20:57.42 | luke-jr | it also means crisis. at least to me. |
| 20:58.59 | DocScrutinizer | one thing's for sure - Nokia marketing droids' name finding *is* a fiasko |
| 21:01.24 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 21:02.08 | *** join/#maemo alextreme (~alex@82-171-161-1.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 21:02.14 | DocScrutinizer | (well, the idea to call a company/product anything like *moko also wasn't that brilliant - but at least less obvious to german/US dudes not knowing Spanish) |
| 21:02.41 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 21:03.08 | kerio | (what does moko mean?) |
| 21:03.25 | DocScrutinizer | something you usually find in your nose |
| 21:03.34 | MNZ | hair :O |
| 21:04.03 | kerio | ooh |
| 21:04.05 | kerio | i get it |
| 21:04.26 | kerio | well, at least it's open |
| 21:04.33 | kerio | :d |
| 21:06.15 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@252.244.broadband9.iol.cz) |
| 21:08.53 | crashanddie | ~ping |
| 21:08.53 | infobot | ~pong |
| 21:09.03 | *** join/#maemo MarcusM (~user@0x573ebd02.cpe.ge-0-2-0-1104.mrbnqu1.customer.tele.dk) |
| 21:09.37 | kerio | ~botsnack |
| 21:09.37 | infobot | kerio: thanks |
| 21:09.39 | MarcusM | is it normal that gps takes a long time to locate without internet locator-thingy? |
| 21:09.41 | kerio | yw |
| 21:09.58 | kerio | MarcusM: yup |
| 21:10.09 | MarcusM | even after like 5min it havent found anything |
| 21:10.23 | kerio | without phonet running and registered *and* without an active internet connection it will be incredibly slow |
| 21:10.32 | kerio | with both of those, it takes 10s, tops |
| 21:11.47 | MarcusM | yup, internet makes it alot faster, but how much data does that use? |
| 21:12.03 | *** join/#maemo josephnexus (~josephnex@71-38-89-235.bois.qwest.net) |
| 21:12.07 | josephnexus | hello everyone |
| 21:12.19 | MarcusM | hi |
| 21:12.26 | josephnexus | for some reason the media player doesn't seem to be indexing new ogg files that I drop into the music folder |
| 21:12.30 | josephnexus | any ideas? |
| 21:13.00 | MarcusM | have you installed support for ogg? |
| 21:13.04 | josephnexus | yes |
| 21:13.08 | nox- | i wonder if you could tell it to remember the last gps position and start again from there if no notwork... |
| 21:13.13 | josephnexus | i can play the audio when i open it via the file manager |
| 21:13.21 | MarcusM | hmm okay |
| 21:13.34 | luke-jr | well, kicking both watchdogs in linuxrc didn't help at all |
| 21:13.41 | luke-jr | jacekowski: â¹ |
| 21:14.18 | jacekowski | what is a bootreason? |
| 21:14.25 | luke-jr | nfc? |
| 21:14.28 | DocScrutinizer51 | nox-: that's how it's supposed to work, but obviously there's some bug in that |
| 21:14.55 | josephnexus | is there a way to tell the media player to reindex the music? |
| 21:15.40 | nox- | DocScrutinizer51, well here it starts with a position somewhere around the center of germany then, maybe it gets that from the 3g tower or something? |
| 21:15.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | it's tracker |
| 21:16.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep |
| 21:17.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | without the NC from GSM indicating the country it starts with exactly my old coords but obviously those don't make it through cellmo to GPS |
| 21:18.43 | luke-jr | unfortunately, I'm not sure I have enough interest in figuring out AGPS :P |
| 21:18.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | I wouldn't be surprised to learn that's a bug i cellmo FW |
| 21:20.25 | luke-jr | actually, I suspect AGPS might be entirely modem side |
| 21:20.40 | luke-jr | /I/ certainly don't get a fix under 10 seconds every time |
| 21:20.45 | josephnexus | any ideas on fixing this tracker issue? |
| 21:21.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | luke-jr: (A cellmo) ack, me too |
| 21:22.00 | luke-jr | with modem on 3G, 6 seconds to fix |
| 21:22.08 | luke-jr | note, in both cases the N900 was connected to my Wifi |
| 21:22.34 | nox- | yeah it doesnt need 3g data link, wifi works too |
| 21:22.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | josephnexus: check tracker's config file |
| 21:22.48 | josephnexus | where would I find that? |
| 21:23.22 | jacekowski | i said that long time ago |
| 21:23.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | somewhere in user's home iirc |
| 21:23.27 | jacekowski | agps is done in cellmo only |
| 21:23.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | jacekowski: of course :-) |
| 21:24.25 | nox- | jacekowski, so you mean it cant work without 3g/gsm packet data connection? |
| 21:24.54 | jacekowski | yep |
| 21:24.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | jacekowski: it's quite consequent as same modem and gps is used on phones without a userland system outside cellmo |
| 21:25.20 | jacekowski | but that would mean as well that cellmo can have two connections at the same time |
| 21:25.21 | kerio | huh? i think i definetely *got* a gps fix without an active connection and an active sim |
| 21:25.23 | nox- | hm i thought i had see w/o wifi getting a fix takes even longer that with |
| 21:25.29 | nox- | than with |
| 21:25.34 | jacekowski | kerio: it can get a fix, but not agps fix |
| 21:25.39 | kerio | oh, i see |
| 21:25.46 | jacekowski | one normal connection for phone and one for modem itself |
| 21:26.01 | kerio | nah, can't be |
| 21:26.11 | lcuk | josephnexus, whats up with your index? |
| 21:26.12 | kerio | otherwise, why would it ask you to connect |
| 21:26.19 | kerio | just to connect twice? |
| 21:26.21 | josephnexus | lcuck, it just isn't updating |
| 21:26.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | nox-: I guess modem will acept alltternative internet than 3G, or it maybe even gets agps data from bts without any internet data involved |
| 21:26.30 | josephnexus | it shows stuff from before, but nothing new that I add |
| 21:26.39 | luke-jr | nox-: wrong |
| 21:26.57 | nox- | hm |
| 21:27.46 | luke-jr | jacekowski: I suspect this is why some N900 owners have been billed for tethering |
| 21:27.55 | luke-jr | because in reality, N900 *is* tethering |
| 21:27.59 | lcuk | josephnexus, try this thread http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42088 |
| 21:28.22 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: w/ only WiFi, no AGPS |
| 21:28.33 | kerio | tethering? |
| 21:28.35 | kerio | to what? |
| 21:28.37 | kerio | to rapuyama? |
| 21:28.55 | kerio | it doesn't make sense |
| 21:29.14 | luke-jr | kerio: the tablet tethers to the phone |
| 21:29.18 | kerio | oh |
| 21:29.20 | luke-jr | via phonet |
| 21:29.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | I don't see that |
| 21:30.00 | kerio | it's not a phone, it's a modem :| |
| 21:30.16 | luke-jr | kerio: modems don't do voice |
| 21:30.33 | jacekowski | voicemodems do |
| 21:30.44 | nox- | haha |
| 21:30.48 | kerio | i had a serial modem that also did fax and voice |
| 21:30.51 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@84-75-182-160.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:30.58 | nox- | yep there were those... |
| 21:31.03 | luke-jr | kerio: then it isn't a mere modem |
| 21:31.13 | kerio | it's still not a phone :< |
| 21:31.48 | nox- | stupid carriers shouldnt care about where data goes to/from, only how much |
| 21:31.52 | luke-jr | kerio: it's running the same thing Nokia low-end phones do, just w/o a LCD hooked to it |
| 21:32.05 | kerio | nox-: why should they, if that means they can bill you more? |
| 21:32.12 | kerio | (i still don't get why people *accept* that kind of thing) |
| 21:32.30 | nox- | yah :/ |
| 21:32.33 | kerio | anyway, having a n900 completely justifies you for *any* kind of traffic |
| 21:32.36 | luke-jr | kerio: that's why capitalism is evil |
| 21:32.50 | luke-jr | kerio: does it? |
| 21:32.56 | luke-jr | [16:31:52] <luke-jr> kerio: it's running the same thing Nokia low-end phones do, just w/o a LCD hooked to it |
| 21:32.57 | jacekowski | kerio: well, on my old £35 contract for iphone ( and now £25 for n900 ) i could download as much data as i wanted |
| 21:32.58 | luke-jr | that was BS btw |
| 21:33.05 | jacekowski | and O2 never charged me more |
| 21:33.22 | luke-jr | kerio: over here in the US, I hear AT&T doesn't allow N900, and T-Mobile doesn't allow N900 on PAYG data |
| 21:33.29 | kerio | luke-jr: then they suck |
| 21:33.36 | kerio | luke-jr: of course it does |
| 21:33.37 | luke-jr | kerio: and they're the only options |
| 21:33.53 | nox- | eww |
| 21:33.58 | kerio | i mean, if you download a torrent how can they be sure you tethered a computer to your n900 |
| 21:34.04 | luke-jr | every other service is CDMA or iDEN |
| 21:34.06 | kerio | transmission works perfectly fine |
| 21:34.12 | kerio | luke-jr: you live in the US |
| 21:34.15 | kerio | i feel ya |
| 21:34.17 | kerio | :( |
| 21:34.20 | jacekowski | luke-jr: well, here nobody would ever think about paying more than £40/mo for a phone |
| 21:34.28 | kerio | (also yeah, capitalism sucks) |
| 21:34.55 | lcuk | hmm, c files, using fopen(filename) can I make it so that it will try to create a new file, but fail and return NULL if the file exists. |
| 21:35.13 | lcuk | and checking if it exists first then opening it is not atomic |
| 21:35.19 | luke-jr | lcuk: I think so |
| 21:35.20 | lcuk | so i would rather avoid that |
| 21:35.24 | luke-jr | rtfm? |
| 21:35.28 | kerio | lcuk: open it as... c? |
| 21:35.29 | lcuk | i have done |
| 21:35.31 | lcuk | twice |
| 21:35.40 | *** join/#maemo norayr (~noch@81.16.7.19) |
| 21:35.46 | norayr | join #meego |
| 21:36.02 | jacekowski | lcuk: you have to stat first |
| 21:36.06 | lcuk | flags are "r,r+,w,w+,a,a+" |
| 21:36.18 | lcuk | jacekowski, so it cannot be an atomic op in linux |
| 21:36.26 | lcuk | i used to use that kind of syntax in windows |
| 21:36.29 | luke-jr | lcuk: use open(2) and fdopen |
| 21:36.37 | lcuk | where i could open with a lock |
| 21:36.46 | lcuk | so that it would fail if someone on the other side of the network opened it |
| 21:36.46 | luke-jr | lcuk: open(2) has O_EXCL |
| 21:36.56 | lcuk | ooh, looking |
| 21:37.06 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 21:37.19 | luke-jr | "O_EXCL Ensure that this call creates the file: if this flag is specified in conjunction with O_CREAT, and pathname already exists, then open() will fail." |
| 21:37.21 | lcuk | awesome |
| 21:37.24 | lcuk | thanks luke-jr |
| 21:37.32 | crashanddie | someone forgot to read the man? |
| 21:37.39 | luke-jr | crashanddie: not quite |
| 21:37.41 | lcuk | wrong man ;) |
| 21:37.51 | luke-jr | he needs to use 2 functions instead of 1 |
| 21:38.03 | luke-jr | because C doesn't support this feature |
| 21:38.20 | luke-jr | only POSIX |
| 21:38.33 | *** join/#maemo smhar (~salman@84.235.101.78) |
| 21:38.37 | luke-jr | (fopen is C, whereas open and fdopen are POSIX) |
| 21:38.47 | *** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 21:39.44 | luke-jr | on the bright side, fdopen doesn't require a syscall I think |
| 21:39.51 | luke-jr | just open |
| 21:42.34 | *** join/#maemo LjL (~ljl@151.83.172.164) |
| 21:48.12 | *** join/#maemo citygent (citygent@unaffiliated/citygent) |
| 21:48.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | (tethering) there's no reasonable way to tell if you do that (or your smartphone does) |
| 21:48.43 | *** join/#maemo hcm (~hcm@port-92-193-55-171.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 21:49.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | and ther's no second connection |
| 21:49.17 | jacekowski | ttl |
| 21:49.37 | jacekowski | if you see packets send with two different ttls then it's most likely tethering |
| 21:50.08 | satmd | there is |
| 21:50.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | if carrier says 'tethering' he actually means 'using other ports than the ones supposed to be possible for the device you announced' |
| 21:50.22 | satmd | ack, I was about to suggest the same |
| 21:53.44 | *** join/#maemo akoma1s (quasselcor@unaffiliated/akoma1s) |
| 21:54.08 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: so... what do they do with... any phone that can be programmed? |
| 21:55.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | no idea, here we got no such insane plan fineprint. probably they'll charge you accordingly |
| 21:58.28 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@40.84-48-217.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:03.02 | *** join/#maemo Guest43412 (~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl) |
| 22:06.20 | zeltak | is it not possible to run 'screen' as "user"? i get a permission error |
| 22:08.18 | zeltak | Cannot make directory '/var/run/screen': Permission denied |
| 22:08.41 | FIQ|n900 | i get that as well |
| 22:08.57 | FIQ|n900 | seemed to work if i ran screen as root, then exited and runned as user |
| 22:08.59 | FIQ|n900 | dunno why |
| 22:09.03 | zeltak | mmm wierd... |
| 22:09.04 | Shadikka | sudo mkdir /var/run/screen, sudo chmod 0777 /var/run/screen |
| 22:09.37 | FIQ|n900 | wouldn't that only work temporarly |
| 22:09.42 | zeltak | Shadikka: is that normal procedure or is it a hack to make it work? |
| 22:09.52 | Shadikka | That depends a bit, I'm not sure |
| 22:10.04 | Shadikka | That's what I'd do as a normal *nix user |
| 22:10.08 | FIQ|n900 | it's not normal |
| 22:10.20 | Shadikka | /var/run/screen is where the per-user socket files of screen are stored |
| 22:10.34 | Shadikka | so if you just create it as root and give everybody write permissions to it, it should work normally afterwards |
| 22:10.34 | nox- | sounds like an oversight in the packaging |
| 22:10.43 | zeltak | i use nix in 3-4 machiones at home but i always run screen as nornal user |
| 22:10.45 | Shadikka | If you run screen as root, it basically does the same thing :P |
| 22:10.54 | zeltak | gotcha |
| 22:11.16 | zeltak | i dunno i also cand sudo apt-get as user..before reflashing i remember i used to do that |
| 22:12.06 | zeltak | error i get: |
| 22:12.08 | zeltak | Sorry, user user is not allowed to execute '/usr/bin/apt-get update' as root on Nokia-N900. |
| 22:12.30 | Shadikka | Now that's curious. |
| 22:12.39 | zeltak | befoer reflashing yesterday i could use sudo i think..am i just imagining? |
| 22:12.46 | FIQ|n900 | zeltak, you have sudo gainroot? |
| 22:12.48 | FIQ|n900 | (rootshj |
| 22:12.50 | zeltak | yup |
| 22:12.56 | FIQ|n900 | -j+) |
| 22:13.14 | Shadikka | Some sudoers oversight? |
| 22:13.15 | FIQ|n900 | you can edit sudoers with visudo, but dunno if it's the right way to do |
| 22:13.39 | nox- | it isnt (on n900) |
| 22:13.39 | zeltak | read in the wiki NOT TO DO IT NO MATTER WHAT ..lol |
| 22:13.48 | zeltak | the visudo thing |
| 22:14.13 | FIQ|n900 | ah, ok. :p |
| 22:14.19 | FIQ|n900 | i did it anyway. :D |
| 22:14.20 | lcuk | i need a really tough pen driven a4 size slate. something that can survive living between my lap and keyboard |
| 22:14.41 | FIQ|n900 | but i do pretty much things i shouldn't do |
| 22:14.49 | FIQ|n900 | (i've also changed defaultshell) |
| 22:15.13 | derf | Should have been around in the good old days. |
| 22:15.17 | zeltak | yeah really wanted bash but was warned not to do that as well :) |
| 22:15.17 | derf | That used to brick your device. |
| 22:15.20 | lcuk | coping with bits dropped on it and work with high resolution pen |
| 22:15.52 | *** join/#maemo Funnyface (~user5330@136.80-202-97.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:15.52 | FIQ|n900 | edited passwd manually to have /bin/bash and also added "user ALL=NOPASSWD: ALL" in sudoers |
| 22:15.54 | zeltak | so you guys dont have sudo issues etc..? wondering if i shoud reflash again...:( |
| 22:16.31 | FIQ|n900 | i'm ready for boot fails already, so i'm fine |
| 22:16.33 | FIQ|n900 | :) |
| 22:17.07 | zeltak | FIQ|n900: out of curiosity whats your steps on boot fails ;-)? |
| 22:17.34 | FIQ|n900 | plugging in usb cable, hold down u, reflash! |
| 22:18.03 | FIQ|n900 | i did that 20mins after i got my new N900 |
| 22:18.19 | FIQ|n900 | was very tired and forgot the major rule to edit sudoers with visudo |
| 22:18.41 | FIQ|n900 | managed to break it. :P |
| 22:18.57 | zeltak | how do you backup and more important restore? |
| 22:19.12 | zeltak | i used the build in program to backup...that sucked.. |
| 22:19.18 | FIQ|n900 | reflash just fiddle with rootfs |
| 22:19.33 | FIQ|n900 | and my important data is on home and mydocs |
| 22:19.36 | zeltak | i restored through it and it didnt restore stuff correctly.. |
| 22:19.37 | FIQ|n900 | so i was fine |
| 22:19.52 | kerio | why did you edit /etc/passwd instead of adding /bin/bash to /etc/shells |
| 22:19.54 | kerio | :| |
| 22:20.04 | zeltak | yeah i tried flashing just /root but it screwed up apt for some reason so has to reflash emmc :( |
| 22:20.26 | FIQ|n900 | kerio, because i dunno how shells should be specifiecd |
| 22:20.44 | FIQ|n900 | and i was to lazy to google up |
| 22:21.02 | FIQ|n900 | i know i will fuck up the device sooner or later, nn telling |
| 22:21.15 | FIQ|n900 | i've devel on all the time too |
| 22:21.22 | zeltak | so in terms of root..i just install rootsh right? there is something in the wiki about "sudser",,i guess that obselete right? |
| 22:21.26 | FIQ|n900 | any more info you want that you will not like? |
| 22:21.27 | *** join/#maemo akoma1s (quasselcor@unaffiliated/akoma1s) |
| 22:21.46 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 22:22.06 | FIQ|n900 | zeltak, tha's the normal wa yin maemo yes |
| 22:22.11 | zeltak | kk cool |
| 22:22.16 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 22:22.38 | zeltak | so i still dont get it why my sudo is fucked..thats the only thing i installed (and openssh) |
| 22:22.55 | FIQ|n900 | what's wrong with it? |
| 22:23.15 | FIQ|n900 | does it whining about you need to specify pw? |
| 22:23.23 | FIQ|n900 | because, that's normal |
| 22:24.02 | zeltak | no i cant use sudo at all as user |
| 22:24.18 | zeltak | FIQ|n900: for example if i issue: sudo apt-get update |
| 22:24.28 | zeltak | i get: Sorry, user user is not allowed to execute '/usr/bin/apt-get update' as root on Nokia-N900. |
| 22:24.31 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
| 22:24.33 | FIQ|n900 | Oh |
| 22:24.40 | FIQ|n900 | ok |
| 22:24.48 | *** join/#maemo plq (~plq@88.249.173.198) |
| 22:24.50 | nox- | just type `root' |
| 22:25.05 | nox- | then do the apt-get in the root shell |
| 22:25.20 | zeltak | yeah i can get root but i like to use sudo as user to quikcly launch stuff |
| 22:25.28 | zeltak | but if thats normal then ok |
| 22:25.37 | zeltak | i mean if thats how it works on all n900 |
| 22:25.45 | *** join/#maemo Pavlov (~pavlov@shell.off.net) |
| 22:26.50 | zeltak | i thought i could use sudo tu launch progs as root or quikcly edit config files |
| 22:27.00 | zeltak | (like in ubuntu etc..) |
| 22:27.50 | FIQ|n900 | got that functionality on his old N900 randomly, doesn't know how that happened (that was without visudo-ing then) |
| 22:28.14 | zeltak | heheh yeah i remember i could do it before the reflash..thats what drives me mad.. |
| 22:29.05 | FIQ|n900 | ugh |
| 22:29.06 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@ip-86-49-9-217.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 22:29.20 | FIQ|n900 | why does bash come with an ugly PS1 D: |
| 22:29.31 | FIQ|n900 | -bash-2.05b$ |
| 22:32.30 | zeltak | Shadikka: the chmod thing dosent stick after a reboot? is there a way to make it stick? |
| 22:37.10 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:39.34 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:40.38 | MNZ | Folks I did it! IT VERKS! I got hardware effects (3D effect only for now...) working on the TLV320AIC34 in the n900! |
| 22:41.05 | satmd | ! |
| 22:42.03 | SpeedEvil | Woo! |
| 22:42.07 | SpeedEvil | Congrats! |
| 22:42.16 | nox- | ideed :) |
| 22:42.24 | nox- | indeed even |
| 22:42.24 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Audio_Codec - linky |
| 22:42.43 | SpeedEvil | Also - this is proof of concept that you can do auido filters on it too |
| 22:43.41 | *** join/#maemo e-yes (~e-yes@95.72.90.23) |
| 22:43.47 | MNZ | SpeedEvil, yes that's where I started, and on to the TI website. I got 3D(easiest one to do) implemented as an alsa mixer control |
| 22:43.52 | derf | Wait, seriously, this has a hardware equalizer and they're burning 15% CPU to make PulseAudio do it? |
| 22:44.06 | MNZ | derf, working on it ;) |
| 22:44.17 | kerio | derf: sssssh |
| 22:44.19 | kerio | don't spoil it |
| 22:44.34 | SpeedEvil | derf: yes. |
| 22:44.42 | SpeedEvil | derf: Also FMradio is shitty for that reason. |
| 22:44.47 | kerio | i still don't get it |
| 22:44.54 | SpeedEvil | derf: FMradio has no good reason at all to go through the CPU |
| 22:44.56 | kerio | who the hell thought that using pulseaudio on a phone would be a good idea |
| 22:45.24 | nox- | SpeedEvil, i read somewhere that it was to protect the speaker from too much bass... |
| 22:45.28 | pupnik | heh derf yup |
| 22:45.32 | SpeedEvil | FM radio use should go from ~10h to ~100h if that was changed |
| 22:45.35 | nox- | speakers even |
| 22:45.38 | SpeedEvil | maybe ~50h actually |
| 22:45.45 | kerio | the speakers suck anyway :< |
| 22:46.16 | MNZ | Actually I think I can get the FM radio routing done pretty quickly, it's the equalizer stuff that's pretty hard to grasp for me :( |
| 22:46.43 | DocScrutinizer | MNZ: \o/ |
| 22:47.02 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_Power_management mnz - for a simple tool to show power usage. |
| 22:47.04 | kerio | MNZ: i love you <3 |
| 22:47.12 | MNZ | does a happy dance |
| 22:47.16 | SpeedEvil | I'm polishing it and going to patch and upload it to extras. |
| 22:47.25 | MNZ | SpeedEvil, sweet |
| 22:47.32 | kerio | hold on, how can fm radio skip the cpu? |
| 22:47.36 | kerio | doesn't get it |
| 22:47.43 | SpeedEvil | kerio: It routes through the codec chip |
| 22:48.02 | kerio | yeah but then you have no software control and no other audio |
| 22:48.05 | SpeedEvil | kerio: It goes in one A/D, out the other D/A through the internal digital mixers and switches. |
| 22:48.38 | DocScrutinizer | MNZ: that's really great news :-)) |
| 22:49.43 | MNZ | DocScrutinizer, Indeed it is! I couldn't believe it when I got it working :D |
| 22:49.52 | SpacedOut | Does the kernel-power or built in kernel use an initrd for the N900? |
| 22:49.53 | MNZ | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:50.10 | DocScrutinizer | *cough* |
| 22:50.19 | *** join/#maemo Chewtoy (~chewtoy@c80-216-58-110.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 22:50.25 | MNZ | :( Am I going to have to dig through mafw ? please say no |
| 22:50.45 | DocScrutinizer | :-x |
| 22:51.18 | MNZ | where's me shovel |
| 22:51.43 | kerio | yay |
| 22:51.52 | kerio | /dcc send MNZ shovel |
| 22:52.12 | pupnik | MNZ: you got a pulseaudio working without any EQ? |
| 22:52.25 | kerio | he got an EQ working without any pulseaudio :D |
| 22:52.31 | MNZ | anywho, the equalizer thing is going to take some time.... I can't figure out the coefficients for the equation yet.... All I can actually implement is preset stuff (Bass boost, treble boost, etc) |
| 22:52.40 | MNZ | pupnik, as kerio said :D |
| 22:52.59 | pupnik | good job mate |
| 22:53.08 | MNZ | so unless someone with a background in DSP steps up, we're gonna settle for the presets |
| 22:53.21 | nox- | moin pupnik :) |
| 22:53.27 | MNZ | pupnik, thanks :D |
| 22:53.30 | kerio | i just want pulseaudio to stop eating my cpu time |
| 22:53.33 | kerio | it's valuable :< |
| 22:53.48 | pupnik | definitely kerio |
| 22:54.10 | FIQ|n900 | wouldn't it be a great idea to kill if if you've sound off |
| 22:54.11 | pupnik | a volume limiter could be done instead of eq, for some uses |
| 22:54.14 | FIQ|n900 | maybe not |
| 22:54.46 | pupnik | you can bypass it, but you need to watch your volumes |
| 22:54.52 | MNZ | pupnik, volume control is already done in hardware |
| 22:55.21 | MNZ | (unless PA is doing it in software and just ignoring the alsa controls..... I'm gonna have to look into that) |
| 22:55.42 | kerio | #maemo - working hard to completely discredit Nokia as a serious software company |
| 22:56.27 | MNZ | haha |
| 22:56.42 | pupnik | MNZ: if you ever do find where PA is doing the EQ, please try disabling it and comparing rough cpu use estimates with it enabled and disabled |
| 22:56.50 | *** join/#maemo yrgd (~yrgd@c-98-235-44-106.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 22:57.00 | pupnik | i'm guessing the eq is taking about 1/2 of PA's cpu time |
| 22:57.15 | pupnik | or 1/3 at least |
| 22:57.24 | MNZ | pupnik, definitely. Right now I am concentrating on the HW side and exporting stuff through alsa, next step is moving up the stack |
| 22:57.58 | pupnik | cool |
| 22:58.19 | SpacedOut | MNZ: alsamixer tells me the hardware volumes are all the way up all the time, but you probably already knew that. |
| 22:58.25 | pupnik | nox-: wats news in .de |
| 22:59.09 | MNZ | SpacedOut, I've only noticed them move when I change the volume from the status bar |
| 22:59.28 | MNZ | Also, try pluging in a headphone and changing volume from the status |
| 22:59.30 | *** part/#maemo Macer (mace@rancorous.net) |
| 23:00.02 | MNZ | SpacedOut, just so we are clear, you are running "alsamixer -D real" correct? |
| 23:00.03 | nox- | pupnik, only the usual stuff i think |
| 23:01.08 | SpacedOut | Probably not, anyhow my N900 is down and out for the moment, and I'm trying to reflash the kernel or some such to get it booting again. |
| 23:01.34 | kerio | wait, what |
| 23:01.46 | kerio | pulse reduces the volume of the audio feed but not the hw volume? |
| 23:01.53 | kerio | what the FUCK |
| 23:02.14 | MNZ | kerio, done in software :/ yeah, I know, PA rocks |
| 23:02.23 | pupnik | there are reasons for that |
| 23:02.33 | kerio | really, reasons? |
| 23:02.34 | kerio | :| |
| 23:02.40 | kerio | what reason could it possibly be |
| 23:02.57 | pupnik | independent volume control per application |
| 23:03.42 | *** join/#maemo plq (~plq@88.249.173.198) |
| 23:04.08 | MNZ | actually I just did a quick test and the hardware volume is changing, both by changing volume from status and from media player |
| 23:05.25 | MNZ | in funnier news, trying to change the pulseaudio master volume from alsamixer lags the device :D |
| 23:05.54 | *** join/#maemo SWFu (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu) |
| 23:06.27 | *** join/#maemo incar (~incar@pa58-109-170-93.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 23:06.50 | pupnik | you have pasuspender installed? |
| 23:06.58 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~fernando@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 23:07.30 | MNZ | pupnik, on the n900, of course not. If you suspend pa you get no call audio :D |
| 23:08.58 | MNZ | SpeedEvil, that software power management page will come in handy, thanks |
| 23:09.32 | kerio | pupnik: bite me |
| 23:12.24 | kerio | no offense |
| 23:14.04 | asj | feel the love |
| 23:15.34 | *** join/#maemo __a (~albert@c-5e4c72d5.06-180-6e6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 23:17.30 | satmd | pa also has something called flatvolumes - configurable |
| 23:17.49 | satmd | if enabled (default), it'll adjust the relative volume of individual streams to the loudest stream |
| 23:18.08 | satmd | that can cause glitches on volume changes on some drivers |
| 23:20.36 | pupnik | it seems to me that audio piping should be done at a low-level with realtime priority |
| 23:21.47 | kerio | pupnik: nah, that would be the sensible thing to do |
| 23:23.14 | pupnik | i don't even know what is taking so much cpu time. though there is one hint about buffer underruns requiring a lot of processing to reset |
| 23:23.17 | SpeedEvil | MNZ: You've seen the various hardware pages? |
| 23:23.50 | lcuk | pupnik, was that how asound used to work |
| 23:24.05 | MNZ | SpeedEvil, yeah I skimmed through the ones linked in the wiki. |
| 23:24.44 | asj | pupnik: the problem with running everything at high priority is well...everything is high priority ;) |
| 23:24.58 | MNZ | The audio codec is what caught my eye as why-the-hell-is-this-not-used immediately though |
| 23:28.08 | *** join/#maemo guardian (~guardian@i07v-62-34-48-83.d4.club-internet.fr) |
| 23:29.04 | SpeedEvil | MNZ: Because spec-writers don't strart out by reading all of the datasheets |
| 23:36.53 | *** join/#maemo crs (~crs@gentoo/user/crs) |
| 23:38.17 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@ibmaus65.lnk.telstra.net) |
| 23:42.32 | *** join/#maemo jacktheripper (~jacktheri@41.91.68.24) |
| 23:42.59 | MNZ | SpeedEvil, as far as the audio codec is concerned I think the spec writers have done a good job |
| 23:46.27 | *** join/#maemo panaggio (~panaggio@200-158-190-75.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 23:46.43 | SpeedEvil | why? |
| 23:47.18 | technomike_phone | audio stutter is annoying :( |
| 23:47.43 | SpeedEvil | technomike_phone: Don't worry, it's fixed. |
| 23:48.56 | MNZ | SpeedEvil, because they've summed up the attractive features quite well with little technical details. These wiki pages are meant for users right? not devs? |
| 23:49.13 | *** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (Smily@BSN-143-178-175.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 23:50.00 | technomike_phone | SpeedEvil - still got to wait for the next update unfortunatly :( |
| 23:50.39 | technomike_phone | which could be a long way off |
| 23:51.40 | SpeedEvil | MNZ: sorry - what spec writers? |
| 23:51.57 | SpeedEvil | MNZ: Oh - I was referring to the n900 software spec writer. |
| 23:52.13 | MNZ | Oh, then nvm :D |
| 23:52.19 | SpeedEvil | I'm the author of most of category:n900_hardware |
| 23:52.29 | technomike_phone | Any news on possible release time? I know its not announced but maybe someone knows something? |
| 23:52.54 | SpeedEvil | Can anyone not comment on the version of software they're running on their phone? |
| 23:54.33 | johnx | SpeedEvil, oooh, I can. |
| 23:55.05 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@122.212.45.242) |
| 23:56.56 | SpeedEvil | .5pot+1egg+2onion+10g oil |
| 23:56.59 | SpeedEvil | argh |
| 23:57.19 | johnx | aah, must be a clue as to the release date |
| 23:57.54 | SpeedEvil | It was actually a note to myself about the composition of a meal I just ate. |
| 23:57.59 | SpeedEvil | To compute calories. |
| 23:58.19 | SpeedEvil | About 280Kc |
