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| 00:11.22 | bionet | is there any one out there? |
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| 00:17.26 | Macer | crap |
| 00:17.37 | Macer | now flash is outdated in m5 |
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| 00:32.36 | DocScrutinizer | ~xyawn |
| 00:32.37 | infobot | it has been said that xyawn is big coffee |
| 00:32.45 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
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| 00:42.37 | MNZ | Is there a publicly available repo that holds the maemo kernel? |
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| 00:45.07 | babsher | i think that most of the kernel comes from the linux git repo |
| 00:45.55 | MNZ | I know, but I want the maemo additions and patches all in one place. |
| 00:47.30 | babsher | there is some stuff in the developer guide about the kernel |
| 00:48.00 | babsher | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide |
| 00:48.16 | babsher | they talk about compiling the kernel there |
| 00:48.33 | MNZ | babsher, ooh thanks! shoulda looked there... |
| 00:48.40 | babsher | ay |
| 00:48.54 | babsher | do you know about the power interface in maemo |
| 00:49.32 | MNZ | what do you mean by power interfaces exactly? |
| 00:49.55 | babsher | well i have been looking at ways to save power by underclocking |
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| 00:50.03 | babsher | and turning things off |
| 00:50.31 | babsher | i only need the bluetooth but I would like to use it for about 10 hours |
| 00:50.57 | MNZ | well, there are some guides on saving battery and here's one I used http://wiki.maemo.org/How_To_Make_Your_Battery_Last_Longer |
| 00:51.39 | babsher | ya i looked at that. hmmm |
| 00:51.58 | babsher | i am installing the kernel-power module now |
| 00:52.12 | DocScrutinizer | there's really not much use in underclocking |
| 00:52.34 | DocScrutinizer | at least when your apps are written sanely |
| 00:53.13 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption#Software |
| 00:53.18 | MNZ | As I understand it, the kernel is a tickless one, so yeah... |
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| 00:59.46 | babsher | well all iam doing is recording data off the bluetooth chip |
| 01:00.03 | babsher | i dont really care about gui or wifi |
| 01:00.07 | DocScrutinizer | >>Many users find that they have about 50% battery left after a full day's worth of usage if they only use 3G when really needed (and don't have the magnetic clasp problem).<< |
| 01:00.11 | DocScrutinizer | BT is cheap |
| 01:00.25 | babsher | well that is good to know |
| 01:00.31 | DocScrutinizer | so what? 10h? should be absolutely no problem |
| 01:00.48 | babsher | sweet. even without underclocking |
| 01:01.30 | DocScrutinizer | esp without underclocking. Rush to idle is the motd |
| 01:02.11 | babsher | ic |
| 01:02.48 | babsher | but I am going to be using the blue tooth continuously |
| 01:03.25 | root___ | I have a question for anyone who's willing to help. All of my searches on the maemo forums, the wiki, and google have led me to dead ends. |
| 01:03.37 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, then you *might* end up with CPU running @ 250 all the time. That's as good as it gets anyway, as you can't clock lower |
| 01:03.48 | root___ | Is it possible to mount the eMMC over usb without a working boot? |
| 01:03.56 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
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| 01:04.31 | root___ | DocScrutinizer: was that for me? |
| 01:04.38 | DocScrutinizer | exporting of filesystems is done by a system daemon |
| 01:05.01 | DocScrutinizer | no system -> no exported filesystems |
| 01:05.11 | DocScrutinizer | hell, no filesystems at all :-P |
| 01:05.51 | root___ | sure. what then are the two devices that are attached in /dev? |
| 01:06.06 | DocScrutinizer | ??? |
| 01:07.56 | root___ | ... on a linux system. when I mount the n900, dmesg turns up two storage devices. any attempts to mount them turns up 'no medium found' |
| 01:08.06 | DocScrutinizer | I for sure have a lot more than two devices in /dev |
| 01:08.07 | root___ | two *new* |
| 01:08.09 | babsher | Doc. So what you are saying is that the kernel will scale the clock without me interfering |
| 01:08.34 | DocScrutinizer | basexactly |
| 01:08.39 | DocScrutinizer | babsher: ^^ |
| 01:10.15 | DocScrutinizer | root___: sorry, can't find my crystal ball. You'd need to disclose a bit more detail, so anybody can answer your question. E.G. the most detailed 2 lines from dmesg |
| 01:10.39 | root___ | lines are: |
| 01:10.59 | babsher | Doc. Thanks for the help! |
| 01:11.04 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
| 01:11.22 | root___ | scsi 5:0:0:0: Direct-Access Nokia N900 031 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2 |
| 01:11.49 | root___ | and a similar one with 5:0:0:1: |
| 01:11.57 | root___ | followed by: |
| 01:12.16 | root___ | sd 5:0:0:0: [sda] ... |
| 01:12.25 | root___ | and sd 5:0:0:1: [sdb] ... |
| 01:12.57 | DocScrutinizer | fine, your system mounted two new storage devices, called sda and sdb |
| 01:13.37 | DocScrutinizer | probably eMMC and uSD |
| 01:14.32 | root___ | I agree. However, I'm trying to figure out if I can then mount those as readable filesystems |
| 01:14.47 | root___ | They are recognized devices, but not mounted |
| 01:15.14 | DocScrutinizer | that might be related to automounter failing to corerectly detect them |
| 01:15.44 | DocScrutinizer | there should be sda1 and sdb1 somewhere in your dev/ |
| 01:16.46 | root___ | nope. that's part of the problem |
| 01:18.14 | DocScrutinizer | mount -t auto /dev/sda /mnt/eMMC_fatfloppy |
| 01:18.59 | root___ | already tried. returned 'must specify the file type' |
| 01:20.01 | DocScrutinizer | root___: please use pastebin to show the the full output generated during plugin, of dmesg or better `tail -f /var/log/messages` or whatever it's called on your system |
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| 01:21.54 | root___ | [765804.276023] usb 1-2: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 19 |
| 01:21.55 | root___ | [765804.493565] usb 1-2: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice |
| 01:21.55 | root___ | [765804.544439] usb 1-2: New USB device found, idVendor=0421, idProduct=0105 |
| 01:21.55 | root___ | [765804.544450] usb 1-2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=5 |
| 01:21.55 | root___ | [765804.544456] usb 1-2: Product: Nokia N900 (Update mode) |
| 01:21.57 | root___ | [765804.544460] usb 1-2: Manufacturer: Nokia |
| 01:21.59 | root___ | [765804.544464] usb 1-2: SerialNumber: 4D554D343931363834 |
| 01:22.02 | root___ | [767659.419454] usb 1-2: USB disconnect, address 19 |
| 01:22.04 | root___ | [767670.992155] usb 1-2: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 20 |
| 01:22.07 | root___ | [767671.125340] usb 1-2: configuration #1 chosen from 2 choices |
| 01:22.10 | root___ | [767671.139911] scsi7 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices |
| 01:22.12 | root___ | [767671.141496] usb-storage: device found at 20 |
| 01:22.15 | root___ | [767671.141503] usb-storage: waiting for device to settle before scanning |
| 01:22.17 | root___ | [767671.141841] usb 1-2: New USB device found, idVendor=0421, idProduct=01c7 |
| 01:22.20 | root___ | [767671.141850] usb 1-2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3 |
| 01:22.22 | root___ | [767671.141856] usb 1-2: Product: N900 (Storage Mode) |
| 01:22.25 | root___ | [767671.141860] usb 1-2: Manufacturer: Nokia |
| 01:22.27 | root___ | [767671.141864] usb 1-2: SerialNumber: 372041756775 |
| 01:22.30 | root___ | [767676.140380] usb-storage: device scan complete |
| 01:22.32 | root___ | [767676.140974] scsi 7:0:0:0: Direct-Access Nokia N900 031 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2 |
| 01:22.35 | root___ | [767676.141567] scsi 7:0:0:1: Direct-Access Nokia N900 031 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2 |
| 01:22.38 | root___ | [767676.144303] sd 7:0:0:0: [sda] Attached SCSI removable disk |
| 01:22.41 | root___ | [767676.148217] sd 7:0:0:1: [sdb] Attached SCSI removable disk |
| 01:23.31 | root___ | DocScrutinizer: and thank you for helping. |
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| 01:23.47 | DocScrutinizer | yuck |
| 01:23.53 | DocScrutinizer | ~pastebin |
| 01:23.59 | infobot | [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you should paste anything over 3 lines so you don't flood the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://bin.cakephp.org/ , http://asterisk.pastey.net/ , or install pastebinit with yum or aptitude. |
| 01:24.20 | root___ | apologies. I will educate myself |
| 01:28.17 | DocScrutinizer | anyway it looks quite ok, no idea if it should detect partitions ( like sda1), need to check as I've done this last time maybe 4 months ago |
| 01:30.54 | asj | root___: if you mount them by hand does it work? |
| 01:31.24 | asj | (not -t auto) |
| 01:32.17 | root___ | asj: I haven't been able to determine what fs (or other method) to use |
| 01:32.28 | asj | this is an n900 right? |
| 01:32.31 | root___ | yes |
| 01:32.42 | asj | vfat, check for partitions |
| 01:33.06 | asj | (as root fdisk -l) |
| 01:33.36 | e-yes | ~lis302dl |
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| 01:35.24 | root___ | fdisk -l only turns up the local drives, and trying 'fdisk -l /dev/sda' or 'sdb' doesn't return anythign |
| 01:35.33 | root___ | s/gn/ng/ |
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| 01:36.34 | DocScrutinizer | e-yes: ?? |
| 01:37.28 | DocScrutinizer | root___: try -t vfat |
| 01:37.30 | asj | usb is local |
| 01:37.38 | root___ | also 'mount -t vfat ...' gives 'no medium found' |
| 01:37.41 | e-yes | DocScrutinizer, ??:) |
| 01:37.49 | asj | it should be sda1 I'm fairly sure no? |
| 01:38.23 | DocScrutinizer | that's the problem asj. He says there isn't |
| 01:38.45 | root___ | there are no partitions listed for the sda and sdb devices |
| 01:38.47 | asj | DocScrutinizer: then I would say full stop, something is busted. |
| 01:38.53 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 01:39.21 | asj | either system is whacked, or n900 is broken. So, does the n900 boot/work have 27 gigs on /home/MyDocs? |
| 01:40.30 | root___ | n900 shows 'nokia' boot screen, but no further. |
| 01:40.36 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 01:40.46 | root___ | although-- |
| 01:41.04 | DocScrutinizer | [2010-08-27 03:04:38] <DocScrutinizer> exporting of filesystems is done by a system daemon |
| 01:41.06 | DocScrutinizer | [2010-08-27 03:05:01] <DocScrutinizer> no system -> no exported filesystems |
| 01:41.22 | DocScrutinizer | what part of this was unclear? |
| 01:41.24 | root___ | I got that. |
| 01:41.25 | root___ | thanks |
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| 01:42.30 | root___ | I was under the impression that we were continuing the conversation with the understanding that I was attemping to mount without a complete boot |
| 01:43.03 | root___ | thanks for the help, and the time. |
| 01:43.04 | DocScrutinizer | your N900 system is borked. reflash! |
| 01:43.11 | root___ | off to do so |
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| 01:45.10 | DocScrutinizer | e-yes: infobot does't know about lid302 :-P |
| 01:45.26 | DocScrutinizer | e-yes: nevertheless I do |
| 01:45.40 | DocScrutinizer | LIS302* |
| 01:46.20 | DocScrutinizer | e-yes: ECHAN? |
| 01:47.22 | DocScrutinizer | e-yes: ...as meego has a completely braindamaged lis3lv02d kernel driver, instead of the somewhat sane maemo borne lis302dl |
| 01:47.58 | e-yes | i'm not wondering how lis302 was implemented for n900. only one phone, no prob with non-standard interface. i wonder why they do it for meego in the same way (!dev/input) |
| 01:48.32 | e-yes | or meego intended only for n9?:) |
| 01:48.53 | asj | DocScrutinizer: jesus, must remember half the people out there are below average |
| 01:49.01 | asj | bangs his head into a wall |
| 01:49.07 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 01:49.59 | DocScrutinizer | e-yes: see my last line to you, above |
| 01:51.07 | DocScrutinizer | http://gitorious.org/nokia-n900-kernel/nokia-n900-kernel/blobs/master/drivers/hwmon/lis3lv02d.c#line47 is braindamaged joystick driver. Compare/diff to http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/i2c/chips/lis302dl.c |
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| 01:52.37 | DocScrutinizer | e-yes: /dev/input is a bit of... err, underfeatured, for LIS302 |
| 01:57.16 | DocScrutinizer | e-yes: you could use /dev/input_<lis302> if you're *really* interested in raw data from lis302 chip, at a rate of either 100 or 400 per second. Or you could have a lib that manages lis302 sysnodes/chip in a smart way, and have a dev/input device created by that lib, which only reports more filtered events, like e.g "up|down|left|right|front|rear" only if the device changed main orientation |
| 01:58.03 | e-yes | didn't knew about lis3lv02d, my bad, i thought they going to use curent lis302dl with meego too |
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| 01:58.29 | DocScrutinizer | I hope they will consider doing that |
| 01:58.57 | DocScrutinizer | lis3lv02d looks to me like wiimote os similar crap |
| 01:59.06 | DocScrutinizer | or* |
| 01:59.07 | e-yes | i have problems with current driver, reading coords in two processes (using dup |
| 01:59.30 | e-yes | ed descriptor) cause weird behaviors |
| 02:00.09 | DocScrutinizer | honestly, lis3lv02d is unusable for N900 |
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| 02:05.07 | DocScrutinizer | e-yes: not to state the nokia lis302dl driver is really great. It as well has flaws: it doesn't put highpass to purpose (http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/i2c/chips/lis302dl.c#164) and so configures lis302 chip for one particular situation only, which is "flat on table, screen heading up" (http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/i2c/chips/lis302dl.c#187) |
| 02:07.55 | e-yes | DocScrutinizer, btw, what you think about lis302 driver from OpenMoko? |
| 02:08.06 | DocScrutinizer | this concept obviously fails on as simple a changed situation as N900 placed on stand |
| 02:08.20 | DocScrutinizer | e-yes: I have to admit I never looked into it |
| 02:11.12 | DocScrutinizer | I suggested to devels same I did here: use highpass, set threshold for matching the smallest relative movement you want to get notice for. Then switch chip config from relative (with highpass) to absolute (hp disabled) for reading out absolute values for all three axis when you get IRQ indicating there's been a change large enough to matter |
| 02:14.09 | e-yes | oh, i see my knowledge about lis302 is far behind yours |
| 02:15.39 | DocScrutinizer | iirc on OM they changed the device node from absolute to relative reporting some point in time. But that hadn't any impact on kernel driver still doing sort of polling (*BAD*!) from lis302 chip, and then just calculating the "relative" properties by comparing new x|y|z vlaue tuple to last one and only output the changed values - yuck |
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| 02:16.06 | DocScrutinizer | but maybe I'm totally wrong on that, and this was nly a dream I had 18 months ago |
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| 02:19.24 | DocScrutinizer | isn't it funny, when somebody complains about high CPU load or sluggishness, you really have to ask "have you placed your N900 on a really flat surface? screen pointing up?" |
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| 02:37.52 | rm_you | johnx: lol |
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| 02:41.27 | johnx | hey rm_you |
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| 02:51.43 | luke-jr | wtf Maemo |
| 02:51.58 | luke-jr | it just disconnected my call so it could switch from GPRS to 802.11 |
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| 02:58.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | wut? lol |
| 02:59.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | luke-jr: could you reproduce/verify that? and then file a bug? :-D |
| 03:00.39 | ptmn_ | OMCK |
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| 03:04.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | luke-jr: wait. That wasn't a VoIP call? |
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| 03:54.07 | termana_moo | moo |
| 03:54.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | ;-D |
| 03:55.24 | TermanaN900 | :D |
| 03:55.28 | TermanaN900 | DocScrutinizer, hello :P |
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| 04:01.04 | TermanaN900 | Any reason why entering a chroot would slow the n900 down? Because thats what seems to happen |
| 04:01.07 | TermanaN900 | (for me) |
| 04:01.39 | TermanaN900 | and then i do some stuff with qemu in my chroot, and I need to restart because its so slow :P |
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| 04:06.18 | johnx | you're running qemu in a chroot on an N900 and wondering why it's slow? |
| 04:07.10 | TermanaN900 | johnx, no, im wondering why after exiting the system stays sluggish |
| 04:07.19 | TermanaN900 | exiting qemu* |
| 04:09.12 | johnx | run top before and after? look for interesting patterns in terms of memory usage? |
| 04:11.12 | microlith | entering a chroot? |
| 04:11.14 | microlith | memory usage |
| 04:11.21 | microlith | lolswappartition |
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| 04:13.34 | DocScrutinizer | TermanaN900: try joggling with a temporary swapfile, and swapoff; swapon - swapping swap ;-) |
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| 05:25.45 | girishr | anyone know how i can launch fennec on the command line on n900? |
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| 05:29.01 | girishr | finally |
| 05:29.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | by typing fennec? |
| 05:30.09 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 05:30.25 | girishr | the executable name is browser |
| 05:30.30 | girishr | browser <url> doesn't work |
| 05:30.40 | girishr | browser --url=<url> works |
| 05:32.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | what's going to happen to processes with lots of swapped out memory pages, on swapoff? will they simply terminate with fatal non-catchable signal? |
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| 05:48.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~wake hackers |
| 05:48.25 | infobot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on hackers and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
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| 05:55.25 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer51: yo |
| 05:55.49 | DocScrutinizer2 | crashanddie: yo |
| 05:56.02 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer51: most likely, they'll segfault or have future malloc()'s die |
| 05:56.36 | DocScrutinizer2 | future malloc()'s? the ones in the discarded memepages? :-P |
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| 05:58.06 | DocScrutinizer2 | segfault sounds logical |
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| 05:58.46 | KnightStalker | Hey,I have a problem with Firefox Sync on Maemo,mm,I wonder if anyone can help me? |
| 05:59.12 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B__ (~csb@89.243.43.12) |
| 05:59.48 | DocScrutinizer2 | ~ask |
| 05:59.49 | infobot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. |
| 05:59.56 | KnightStalker | So,For saving time,the question is actually that I do not have any problem with open tabs sync,but the bookmarks seems unsnced |
| 06:00.34 | *** join/#maemo ppenz (~ppenz@cm189-78.liwest.at) |
| 06:00.36 | KnightStalker | And I know about that do not ask to ask,I just did it to get sure I am in right place and I mustn't stick to firefox support ways |
| 06:00.51 | *** part/#maemo Khult (~kahult@gw.digia.com) |
| 06:00.55 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer2: maybe this provides some insight: http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Swapoff_Performance |
| 06:01.13 | DocScrutinizer2 | crashanddie: mille gracie |
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| 06:02.31 | crashanddie | KnightStalker: truth is, it's 8AM in mainland Europe, where most contributors are from, so it's really not noisey at the moment |
| 06:02.51 | toggles_w | too busy eating musli |
| 06:02.56 | Stskeeps | or drinking coffee |
| 06:02.58 | frals | mornin folks o/ |
| 06:03.05 | toggles_w | Mmm.. Cafe |
| 06:03.05 | X-Fade | Ugh, coffee :) |
| 06:03.15 | toggles_w | thanks Stskeeps, i'm off to get an expresso |
| 06:03.20 | crashanddie | I would crack up if someone said he was taking a shower |
| 06:04.47 | Stskeeps | getting there.. |
| 06:04.47 | *** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@62.119.155.253) |
| 06:04.48 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 06:05.31 | X-Fade | Need a waterproof device first, but then it would be a nice option :) |
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| 06:10.21 | rmrfchik | is there any relible way to sync my google calendar. |
| 06:10.24 | rmrfchik | depressed |
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| 06:10.55 | thresh | gives '?' to rmrfchik |
| 06:11.10 | thresh | use it wisely! |
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| 06:18.42 | rmrfchik | is there any relible way to sync my google calendar >>?<< |
| 06:19.33 | crashanddie | rmrfchik: you idiot |
| 06:19.47 | luke-jr | rmrfchik: if you want Google junk, get Android? |
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| 06:19.58 | crashanddie | rmrfchik: why the heck do you think exchange is implemented on the device? |
| 06:20.11 | crashanddie | rmrfchik: the only thing that works are calendar and contacts, btw |
| 06:20.39 | toggles_w | rmrfchik: don't take it to heart, they haven't had their coffee |
| 06:20.41 | rmrfchik | crashanddie: you idiot. MfE doesn't work |
| 06:20.48 | rmrfchik | ...after 2-3 weeks |
| 06:21.00 | rmrfchik | just stop working. need to recreate calendar. |
| 06:21.00 | luke-jr | blame Google |
| 06:21.21 | luke-jr | actually has 3 unsync'd calendars⦠|
| 06:22.19 | thresh | blerg. now appmanager doesnt show any catalogues. |
| 06:22.40 | thresh | oh finally, after 3 minutes it did. |
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| 06:23.31 | thresh | useless piece of junk. |
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| 06:37.55 | flux | appmanager gets really slow once you have many (non-default) repositories |
| 06:38.03 | MiXu- | Yup :/ |
| 06:38.03 | flux | I guess it inherits that from the dpkg text-based database |
| 06:38.25 | MiXu- | Faster Application Manager is a bit faster. |
| 06:38.35 | MiXu- | And at least it shows you what's happening behind the scenes |
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| 06:43.38 | DocScrutinizer | to whom it may concern (swapoff): http://lkml.org/lkml/2004/3/29/241 |
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| 06:53.11 | Gadgetoid_n900 | random |
| 06:55.20 | DocScrutinizer | urandom |
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| 06:58.45 | DocScrutinizer | thresh: only 3 minutes? lightning fast :-P <envy> |
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| 07:00.46 | DocScrutinizer | COFFEE |
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| 07:23.28 | Stskeeps | http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/26/commodore-usa-announces-the-pc64-an-atom-powered-pc-in-a-replic/ <- that really is temptng |
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| 07:25.13 | crashanddie | rmrfchik: I've been using my calendar for months, never noticed anything dying after a few weeks |
| 07:25.41 | rmrfchik | lucky idiot |
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| 07:26.40 | crashanddie | well, you're an idiot for not specifying you tried it |
| 07:27.07 | crashanddie | "is there any way to synch google calendar aside from MfE which is broken for me" |
| 07:27.08 | *** join/#maemo ptlo (~senko@213.147.102.186) |
| 07:27.09 | crashanddie | simples. |
| 07:27.23 | rmrfchik | it's bad morning for you or it's you regular way to communicate? |
| 07:27.40 | crashanddie | pretty much regular, methinks |
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| 07:28.14 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: this might make you gag: |
| 07:28.18 | rmrfchik | ok, plz, ignore me. |
| 07:28.18 | Stskeeps | â Can I get source code for this driver? |
| 07:28.18 | Stskeeps | No, the Intel® Embedded Media and Graphics Driver (EMGD) was designed so that Intel graphics chipset customers would not need access to the source code. |
| 07:28.37 | crashanddie | Stskeeps: lmao |
| 07:28.46 | DocScrutinizer | muhahaha |
| 07:28.46 | X-Fade | ORLY? |
| 07:29.03 | crashanddie | rmrfchik: /ignore is a powerful tool, use it wisely ;) |
| 07:29.14 | Stskeeps | which is fucking ironic considering it's tied to a certain xorg |
| 07:29.32 | rmrfchik | crashanddie: you don't get it. please you ignore me. |
| 07:29.50 | crashanddie | Stskeeps: that's just painful |
| 07:30.45 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 07:31.09 | *** topic/#maemo by DocScrutinizer -> Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Free software mirror: http://espejo.freemoe.org/ || "No, the Intel® Embedded Media and Graphics Driver (EMGD) was designed so that Intel graphics chipset customers would not need access to the source code." |
| 07:31.21 | crashanddie | fail |
| 07:31.37 | DocScrutinizer | why? |
| 07:31.47 | DocScrutinizer | err, how? |
| 07:32.21 | *** topic/#maemo by ChanServ -> Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Free software mirror: http://espejo.freemoe.org/ | "No, the Intel® Embedded Media and Graphics Driver (EMGD) was designed so that Intel graphics chipset customers would not need access to the source code." |
| 07:34.01 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, chanserv topicadd, nice... but clumsy, when you got a decent textedit window to manage the topic |
| 07:34.05 | *** join/#maemo tekojo (~quassel@host-177.nrln.net) |
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| 07:34.34 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 07:35.06 | crashanddie | actually is was more for the double pipe and double spaces |
| 07:35.15 | *** join/#maemo EZEki3l (~Shiva@3615mylife.foreverlovingjah.fr) |
| 07:35.26 | crashanddie | and you can also simply replace the whole topic |
| 07:35.56 | DocScrutinizer | rmrfchik: just get a coffee, ignore crashanddie's rude manners, and smile :-)) |
| 07:36.20 | *** part/#maemo girishr (~girishr@122.167.235.233) |
| 07:36.21 | rmrfchik | i did already :) |
| 07:36.31 | *** join/#maemo guardian (~guardian@i07v-62-34-48-83.d4.club-internet.fr) |
| 07:36.52 | crashanddie | good, finally one who gets it |
| 07:36.57 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
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| 07:37.35 | DocScrutinizer | tekojo: problems? |
| 07:40.04 | DocScrutinizer | tekojo: morning :-) |
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| 07:42.16 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: (double pipe and spaces) this was actually intetional, to separate it from the more serious parts of topic |
| 07:42.31 | crashanddie | oh |
| 07:42.34 | crashanddie | my bad then, apologies |
| 07:42.40 | DocScrutinizer | np, nm |
| 07:43.00 | DocScrutinizer | forgot about it spoiling the "topic auto tools" |
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| 07:46.09 | DocScrutinizer | ~help topic |
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| 07:51.18 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 07:51.32 | *** topic/#maemo by DocScrutinizer -> Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Free software mirror: http://espejo.freemoe.org/ | "No, the Intel® Embedded Media and Graphics Driver (EMGD) was designed so that Intel graphics chipset customers would not need access to the source cod |
| 07:51.51 | *** join/#maemo incar (~incar@pa58-109-144-168.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 07:52.02 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: ? |
| 07:52.03 | Stskeeps | got cut off |
| 07:52.06 | *** join/#maemo jukey (~jukey@kamiserver.de) |
| 07:52.17 | DocScrutinizer | eew |
| 07:52.59 | *** topic/#maemo by DocScrutinizer -> Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Free software mirror: http://espejo.freemoe.org/ | "The Intel® Embedded Media and Graphics Driver (EMGD) was designed so that Intel graphics chipset customers would not need access to the source code." |
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| 07:54.15 | Dassu | dd |
| 07:54.43 | TermanaN900 | Everyone see that the OpenSolaris Governing Board resigned? Guess even they didnt have any confidence in Oracle's plans |
| 07:56.12 | Stskeeps | TermanaN900: their hand was kinda forced it looks like |
| 07:58.08 | TermanaN900 | Stskeeps, maybe / probably. I've only read Oracle's plans and then the last meeting agenda. I dont blame them even if they werent forced to |
| 07:59.46 | DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications/ I read >>TV-Out with ... WLAN/UPnP<< - anybody tried this? (no device here that could do video streaming over WLAN, so no ay to test) |
| 08:00.13 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: it should be possible to a dlna television i guess |
| 08:00.20 | crashanddie | TermanaN900: opensolaris was dead fish anyway |
| 08:00.31 | crashanddie | TermanaN900: opensolaris had been announced as dead nearly a month ago |
| 08:00.50 | X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: I do have multiple servers, it shows them in media player. |
| 08:01.11 | DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: that's exactly opposite direction though |
| 08:01.36 | X-Fade | Ah, otherwise you need rygel. |
| 08:01.40 | DocScrutinizer | but hey, so I should be able to see one N900 as server in other N900's mediaplayer? |
| 08:01.44 | *** join/#maemo apoi (~andi@85-126-180-242.volume.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 08:02.20 | X-Fade | There is no upnp server included by default. |
| 08:02.27 | DocScrutinizer | mhm |
| 08:02.45 | DocScrutinizer | so this spec is a lie |
| 08:03.17 | Stskeeps | tv out with wlan/upnp -> tv is a upnp server |
| 08:03.19 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 08:03.23 | DocScrutinizer | ooh |
| 08:03.45 | Foob | Hi, any ideas what I should do, when I want to connect to my N800 with ssh by using bluetooth (Nokia E55 (Symbian) -> N800) |
| 08:04.19 | *** join/#maemo polymar (~polymar@82.210.249.81) |
| 08:04.29 | DocScrutinizer | install ssh server pkg on maemo |
| 08:04.48 | Foob | I think I should have ssh server running already |
| 08:04.50 | DocScrutinizer | then, for the BT part, errr no idea |
| 08:05.04 | Foob | Yeah, I were trying to google already for a while. It should be possible |
| 08:05.11 | DocScrutinizer | PAN maybe |
| 08:05.19 | Foob | PAN? -> google |
| 08:05.34 | DocScrutinizer | Private Area Network? |
| 08:05.37 | *** join/#maemo CTAPOMAK (~kvirc@host-92-124-179-166.pppoe.omsknet.ru) |
| 08:05.39 | DocScrutinizer | a BT profile |
| 08:05.43 | Foob | ah |
| 08:05.54 | Foob | Then there should be Ip address |
| 08:06.29 | Foob | Actually I'm trying to use Qt for making a client for one server |
| 08:06.43 | Foob | But the server is running on my N800 and I need to connect to it by Nokia |
| 08:06.47 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (~magao@157.88.94.233) |
| 08:06.52 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles#PAN |
| 08:07.40 | Foob | Ok, Thanks |
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| 08:09.13 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: morning |
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| 08:18.42 | mece | WOW! |
| 08:18.47 | mece | mussorgsky is pretty sweet! |
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| 08:21.51 | secyrita1 | hmm. any way to force n900 to use headphone-mode? |
| 08:22.07 | secyrita1 | or should i just go yell at the store that my original headphone doesnt work anymore :-( |
| 08:22.47 | Duckboot | secyrita1: Stare hard and evilly at it for 5 minutes, while you are waving a enormous magnet at it. |
| 08:23.06 | Duckboot | ;-P |
| 08:23.12 | thresh | be sure to enable camera, otherwise the device wont see you. |
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| 08:24.01 | Duckboot | thresh: Oh - I almost forgot that one - thanks |
| 08:24.31 | RST38h | Facebook Is Trying To Register The Word Face As A Trademark |
| 08:24.42 | Scelt | url |
| 08:25.45 | secyrita1 | Duckboot, thresh: already tried that :-( |
| 08:26.12 | Duckboot | RST38h: Wuut? |
| 08:27.02 | RST38h | Google, no? |
| 08:29.57 | Duckboot | RST38h: *facepalm* well well - so much for thinking. |
| 08:30.29 | thresh | you cant use facepalm! |
| 08:31.05 | RST38h | "Palm" is already a registred trademark, isn't it? |
| 08:31.06 | Duckboot | thresh: Shit - It contains the word face.... |
| 08:31.13 | crashanddie | RST38h: well, after they sued some poor teacher website for the use of "book", I'm not really surprised |
| 08:31.17 | Duckboot | So both face and palm are protected |
| 08:31.17 | thresh | RST38h: indeed. so it's ** from now on. |
| 08:31.28 | RST38h | "Face" is still safe |
| 08:31.35 | RST38h | "Book" too BTW |
| 08:31.38 | Duckboot | *f*cap*lm* |
| 08:31.46 | Duckboot | *f*cep*lm* |
| 08:31.53 | crashanddie | Duckboot: pretty sure that "Cap" is owned by CapGemini |
| 08:31.59 | Duckboot | HAHAHA |
| 08:32.28 | Duckboot | I have to either start speaking klingon, og just shut up. |
| 08:32.56 | Corsac | isn't klingon trademarked too? |
| 08:33.44 | ShadowJK | sure, but TtLINGHan HOL (or whatever klingon language is in klingon, I forget) isn't? :P |
| 08:34.01 | crashanddie | Duckboot: 'uch lIj nuj |
| 08:34.16 | RST38h | I am sure the whole language is patented |
| 08:34.33 | Duckboot | RST38h: Probably |
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| 08:34.45 | crashanddie | well, it's related material of Star Trek |
| 08:34.48 | crashanddie | so yeah, Paramount owns it |
| 08:34.56 | Duckboot | Then I'll have to come up with my own language, and trademark it. |
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| 08:35.08 | RST38h | wowow, "On FedEx vehicle for delivery" |
| 08:35.09 | crashanddie | yeah, good luck with the first pick up lines |
| 08:35.20 | crashanddie | RST38h: what are you going to get? |
| 08:35.27 | Duckboot | crashanddie: Don't need that, I'm married. |
| 08:35.53 | crashanddie | Duckboot: well, marriage doesn't exclude chat up lines, does it? |
| 08:36.01 | RST38h | crash: a laptop |
| 08:36.03 | crashanddie | Is flirting prohibited when in a serious relationship? |
| 08:36.05 | crashanddie | RST38h: sweet |
| 08:36.07 | Duckboot | crashanddie: Hehe |
| 08:36.13 | RST38h | this one has got broken LCD and it is too expensive to fix =( |
| 08:36.22 | crashanddie | RST38h: ah yes, had the same issue |
| 08:36.31 | crashanddie | RST38h: kinda dropped it in the stairs, big crack along the center line |
| 08:36.35 | crashanddie | so I just made a debian server out of it |
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| 08:36.52 | Scelt | ShadowJK: http://kasvi.org/index.php?kli |
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| 08:46.59 | DocScrutinizer | *nod* mussorgsky is exactly what I've been looking for |
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| 08:48.32 | DocScrutinizer | though a mediaplayer allowing to sort and `art` media files based on directory structure and filenames would be magnitudes nicer still |
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| 08:58.16 | X-Fade | Can anyone paste the Mem: line of top on a N900 running PR1.2 for me? |
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| 09:01.13 | psycho_oreos | X-Fade, Mem: 199776K used, 45572K free, 0K shrd, 1124K buff, 51900K cached |
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| 09:01.38 | X-Fade | psycho_oreos: What does total say? |
| 09:02.17 | psycho_oreos | X-Fade, it won't say in there, but if you do cat /proc/meminfo it'll show |
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| 09:02.25 | X-Fade | Hmm ok, looking at a different top myself ;) |
| 09:02.46 | psycho_oreos | actually free can show total as well |
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| 09:03.06 | X-Fade | psycho_oreos: What does total say for you? |
| 09:03.21 | psycho_oreos | X-Fade, Total: 1031772 |
| 09:03.32 | psycho_oreos | I'm sure that figure shouldn't change |
| 09:03.43 | X-Fade | Hmm on MeeGo I have: MemTotal: 228580 kB |
| 09:04.34 | psycho_oreos | meego on which? n9? |
| 09:04.42 | X-Fade | No, N900. |
| 09:04.50 | Stskeeps | X-Fade: different utilities maybe |
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| 09:05.12 | psycho_oreos | ahh probably different setup, maybe more swap space |
| 09:05.14 | X-Fade | cat /proc/meminfo |grep MemTotal |
| 09:05.14 | X-Fade | MemTotal: 228580 kB |
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| 09:05.38 | psycho_oreos | MemTotal: 245348 kB |
| 09:05.42 | Duckboot | Nokia-N900:~# cat /proc/meminfo |grep MemTotal |
| 09:05.42 | Duckboot | MemTotal: 245300 kB |
| 09:05.42 | X-Fade | No, that is supposed to be ram, right? |
| 09:06.02 | X-Fade | Yeah, that is what I figured. We have less ram to play with in the MeeGo kernel. |
| 09:06.17 | jacekowski | iirc that ram is shared |
| 09:06.23 | jacekowski | with dsp ivs and powervr |
| 09:06.25 | psycho_oreos | yeah that's definitely RAM, swap was 768MB |
| 09:07.00 | jacekowski | or just dsp |
| 09:07.08 | X-Fade | jacekowski: It is 16MB less, sounds suspicious ;) |
| 09:07.40 | psycho_oreos | I was suspecting kernel is newer on meego therefore it may reserve more but then that should still show it |
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| 09:08.01 | jacekowski | check memory map |
| 09:08.09 | jacekowski | it should be in dmesg |
| 09:08.16 | jacekowski | is bootloader same? |
| 09:08.18 | jacekowski | or different? |
| 09:08.40 | X-Fade | [ 0.000000] Memory: 128MB 128MB = 256MB total |
| 09:08.40 | X-Fade | [ 0.000000] Memory: 228440k/228440k available, 33704k reserved, 0K highmem |
| 09:08.58 | jacekowski | looks OK |
| 09:09.08 | X-Fade | So it reserves 32MB. |
| 09:09.23 | psycho_oreos | can't see mine lol, my n900 has been on awhile so it won't appear in dmesg |
| 09:09.50 | psycho_oreos | s/on/on\ for/ |
| 09:10.18 | *** join/#maemo ShadowJK (jk@terminus.enivax.net) |
| 09:10.57 | DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: isn't meego run via kexec? |
| 09:11.06 | *** join/#maemo jonne (~jonne@91.182.195.35) |
| 09:11.37 | X-Fade | No, direct boot. |
| 09:11.37 | DocScrutinizer | so odds might be the original kernel ram isn't available to the meego kernel? |
| 09:12.01 | DocScrutinizer | well, was just an idea |
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| 09:13.55 | Khertan | Morning |
| 09:14.02 | crashanddie | hi Khertan |
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| 09:14.32 | DocScrutinizer | hehe ->[112673.533477] wl1251: ERROR Power save entry failed, giving up |
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| 09:14.48 | crashanddie | psycho_oreos: space isn't a special character in regexp |
| 09:15.24 | Khertan | crashanddie, depends of implementation |
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| 09:15.58 | crashanddie | Khertan: eh? |
| 09:16.16 | Khertan | yes |
| 09:16.21 | Khertan | 4D |
| 09:16.22 | Khertan | :) |
| 09:16.24 | crashanddie | not it ain't |
| 09:16.28 | crashanddie | s/\s/ / |
| 09:16.37 | crashanddie | damn you infobot |
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| 09:18.11 | DocScrutinizer | ibot regex is most basic |
| 09:18.15 | crashanddie | indeed |
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| 09:18.44 | psycho_oreos | crashanddie, it is to me when using it under vim for example but its just a habit that I've gotten used to |
| 09:18.44 | DocScrutinizer | basically it's no regex but a stringsearch |
| 09:18.59 | psycho_oreos | vim/sed |
| 09:19.13 | crashanddie | psycho_oreos: in sed it's most likely due to your shell, not regexp |
| 09:19.47 | psycho_oreos | crashanddie, ahh ok, well then that'll be issue in bash department with escaping chars |
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| 09:20.16 | Khertan | should try to use regex a bit more ... i forgot everythings |
| 09:20.36 | crashanddie | wrote a 600 line perl script earlier this week |
| 09:20.51 | psycho_oreos | sucks at regexp but will learn how to deal with it when and if needed again |
| 09:21.05 | crashanddie | then I noticed I forgot ; nearly everywhere (I wrote it in one go), so I wrote another perl script to modify the first perl script |
| 09:21.20 | Khertan | write a pylint plugin for khteditor ... need a regexp test plugin now :) |
| 09:21.36 | DocScrutinizer | err, regex is *simple* |
| 09:21.44 | Khertan | DocScrutinizer, hum ... |
| 09:21.45 | crashanddie | just unreadable |
| 09:21.48 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
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| 09:22.04 | crashanddie | it really is very simple logic, find this, group this, replace with this |
| 09:22.09 | marmoute | Khertan: sweet for the pylint plugins |
| 09:22.28 | crashanddie | it's just that the way the grammar is written is extremely confusing and non-obvious for visual creatures like ourselves |
| 09:22.50 | DocScrutinizer | not to me :-P |
| 09:23.00 | Khertan | yep it s simply unreadable |
| 09:23.25 | DocScrutinizer | I started my career with such things like wordmaster on CPM2.2 |
| 09:23.48 | DocScrutinizer | or - even better - MEDIS on BS-M |
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| 09:24.50 | crashanddie | \(((?:[a-zA-Z_0-9]| |\*(?: ?,)?)\) <- not really the easiest way to read something |
| 09:24.58 | crashanddie | (I just wrote that on the fly, errors possible) |
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| 09:25.28 | Khertan | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:25.36 | Khertan | it s not readable |
| 09:25.44 | Khertan | if there isn't any comment in source |
| 09:25.49 | crashanddie | Khertan: matches an opening and or closing tag of XML |
| 09:25.54 | Khertan | :) |
| 09:26.03 | crashanddie | Khertan: and adds grouping for tag name, and properties+values |
| 09:26.03 | toggles_w | what's xml? |
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| 09:26.25 | crashanddie | Khertan: do you know what mine matches? |
| 09:26.33 | Khertan | crashanddie, ok but admit it s not easy to read |
| 09:26.53 | Khertan | crashanddie, lol meme pas |
| 09:26.53 | crashanddie | Khertan: I said that 5 minutes ago :P 11:21 < crashanddie> just unreadable |
| 09:27.03 | Khertan | yep |
| 09:27.05 | crashanddie | Khertan: it matches function arguments for C or C++ |
| 09:27.29 | Khertan | oh ... i keep it for my c qsyntaxhilighter so :) |
| 09:27.48 | crashanddie | you'll have to modify it |
| 09:27.50 | crashanddie | it's not perfect |
| 09:27.55 | Khertan | ;( |
| 09:28.02 | DocScrutinizer | it's silly to ask "can you read this?" - I can't even read C code without the context given |
| 09:29.17 | crashanddie | khertan: /\((?:((?:[a-zA-Z_0-9]| |\*?)(?: ?,))+\)/ <-- that should work |
| 09:29.19 | DocScrutinizer | it's like demanding machinecode should be written in flowcharts as the assembler is so hard to read |
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| 09:29.43 | crashanddie | only for function definitions, not function calls |
| 09:29.57 | DocScrutinizer | regex isn't a noation to read, but to efficiently *write* something |
| 09:30.03 | crashanddie | indeed |
| 09:30.20 | Khertan | DocScrutinizer, yep ... like perl ... this is something to write, not to read or maintain |
| 09:30.26 | crashanddie | I never try to "re-use" a regexp a couple of months after I've written it |
| 09:30.30 | crashanddie | I just write it anew |
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| 09:32.22 | DocScrutinizer | if you need a descriptive notation, use something like EBNF |
| 09:35.41 | MNZ | what does rx51 mean? |
| 09:36.03 | MohammadAG | device model number |
| 09:36.06 | MohammadAG | RX-51 |
| 09:36.30 | MohammadAG | ponders what the unreleased RX-71 was all about |
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| 09:36.47 | MNZ | and that's the model number of the production N900s ? |
| 09:36.52 | DocScrutinizer | for regex it's bets practice to supply a comment with maximum complexity string pattern example that should get matched by the regex - then it's actually simple to read regex |
| 09:37.15 | hrw | MNZ: n900 is rx-51 |
| 09:37.45 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: N9? |
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| 09:38.11 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, it was in the kernel from about a year ago afaik |
| 09:38.22 | DocScrutinizer | sure, why not |
| 09:38.59 | DocScrutinizer | tbh I'm puzzled to see 'N9' pictures where the device has a kbd |
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| 09:39.48 | DocScrutinizer | but that's not uncommon for products to get such features like hw kbd added/removed during development |
| 09:40.06 | crashanddie | Khertan: gets any parameter, including function calls: \((?:((?:[a-zA-Z_0-9\(\)\[\]]| |\*)+)(?: ?, ?)?)+\) |
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| 09:40.24 | Surfa | what makes you think it wouldn't have kbd from the beginnning? |
| 09:40.25 | Shadikka | mmmm, regexes |
| 09:40.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | MNZ: guess what I'm typing this on |
| 09:40.58 | MohammadAG | An N95? |
| 09:40.59 | MohammadAG | :P |
| 09:41.06 | Shadikka | crashanddie: Hmm, why comment the parentheses inside the character class? |
| 09:41.25 | crashanddie | dunno, just wrong habbit I guess? |
| 09:41.29 | MNZ | DocScrutinizer, a PDP11? |
| 09:41.36 | Shadikka | Just started wondering. :P Better safe than sorry, though. |
| 09:41.37 | crashanddie | MNZ: you are so wrong |
| 09:41.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | no no PDP11-51 |
| 09:41.49 | MNZ | crashanddie, what? what did I do? |
| 09:42.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | actually I gave away the PDP11 6 years ago |
| 09:42.54 | crashanddie | MNZ: DocScrutinizer51 actually drums his thoughts on a djembe, and has an autochtone from papua new guinea who converts it at lightning speed into binary bits which are fed through a USB port to his computer |
| 09:43.57 | crashanddie | because the autochtone has so many piercings, it was just a simple operation of shoving a A23 battery up his nose, and now everytime he taps his fingers on a cable, the computer can read it as a digital input |
| 09:44.39 | DocScrutinizer | hehehehe |
| 09:44.48 | crashanddie | bows |
| 09:45.13 | MNZ | I thought real programmers used the butterfly effect to manipulate the atmosphere into focusing cosmic rays onto usb cables to send keyboard input? |
| 09:45.25 | MNZ | XKCD does it best. http://xkcd.com/378/ |
| 09:45.26 | crashanddie | but again, you make a false assumption |
| 09:45.34 | MNZ | let me guess |
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| 09:45.40 | MNZ | DocScrutinizer is not a real programmer |
| 09:45.58 | crashanddie | you assume DocScrutinizer is a programmer, he is not. At best, he's an electronic programmer, and assembles systems using analogical electronics |
| 09:46.16 | crashanddie | analog? |
| 09:46.34 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not a real programmer, as "real programmers don't use Pascal" |
| 09:46.52 | Khertan | hate php |
| 09:47.00 | Stskeeps | <3 polypasca |
| 09:47.00 | Stskeeps | l |
| 09:47.06 | MNZ | Pascal Hyper-Processor ? |
| 09:47.08 | crashanddie | anyway, I'm out |
| 09:47.16 | crashanddie | lunch, and I'm getting a medical |
| 09:47.16 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:JOERG |
| 09:47.24 | MNZ | cheers crashanddie |
| 09:47.30 | Khertan | http://xkcd.com/353/ |
| 09:47.34 | Khertan | ^^ |
| 09:48.25 | MNZ | Khertan, a pythoneer? |
| 09:48.56 | Khertan | :) |
| 09:50.16 | Shadikka | python -c "import antigravity" |
| 09:50.43 | Shadikka | (try it if you don't know.) |
| 09:50.44 | MNZ | what really scares me is python -c "import sentience" |
| 09:50.59 | MNZ | didn't they remove that easter egg? |
| 09:51.10 | Shadikka | *shrug* Works in 3.1 at least. |
| 09:51.20 | rmrfchik | seems like i'm alone with scheme here |
| 09:51.32 | Shadikka | (3.1.2 to be more accurate) |
| 09:51.41 | rmrfchik | 3.1.2 is not a function |
| 09:51.51 | MNZ | XD |
| 09:52.03 | Shadikka | Took me a moment to figure out wtf. :P |
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| 10:00.40 | MNZ | DocScrutinizer, I have heard the name openmoko a bunch of times before but never did check it out. That wikireader is pretty awesome! |
| 10:02.57 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, funny little thing |
| 10:03.27 | DocScrutinizer | and it was originally designed with a decent hw kbd, in a clamshell |
| 10:04.31 | DocScrutinizer | and the kbd matrix was decently designed, not like the N900 one :-P |
| 10:04.52 | Foob | Darn, there isnt PAN support on my Nokia :P |
| 10:04.59 | jacekowski | there is nothing wrong with n900 keyboard |
| 10:05.20 | jacekowski | i don't really see case when somebody would want to press more than 2 keys at the same time |
| 10:05.26 | DocScrutinizer | plus I even had some footprint for a mini-USB connector on the PCB, so hackers could easily retrofit :-D |
| 10:06.38 | DocScrutinizer | errr, ctrl-shift-i or what was that now? to switch to portrait? and what was printscreen? |
| 10:07.17 | TermanaN900 | right, I have determined without doubt #meego == tmo |
| 10:07.21 | TermanaN900 | :P |
| 10:07.23 | rmrfchik | jacekowski: up+left to to move + ctrl to fire |
| 10:07.26 | rmrfchik | ;) |
| 10:07.29 | Surfa | 1 |
| 10:08.16 | DocScrutinizer | F-keys on Fn-Shift-<number> would be friggin nice |
| 10:08.51 | DocScrutinizer | ctrl-shift = alt - also a nice-to-have |
| 10:08.57 | X-Fade | Jaffa: ping? |
| 10:10.03 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: the point is, there is ZERO *nada* niente reason to build the N900 kbd matrix in _this_ borked way |
| 10:10.16 | X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: Can you drop the ops please? |
| 10:10.22 | DocScrutinizer | sorry |
| 10:10.24 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 10:10.29 | *** join/#maemo niko (~niko@freenode/staff/niko) |
| 10:11.05 | Foob | Argh... It's starting to look, that easiest way to connect my Nokia E55 to N800 is program the damn thing by myself :P |
| 10:11.16 | jacekowski | oO |
| 10:11.33 | Foob | with not so stable and good way of course |
| 10:11.46 | flashn | jacekowski, you like typing "|" on your n900? |
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| 10:12.04 | jacekowski | i do it with blue arrow key + sym + click on | |
| 10:12.18 | DocScrutinizer | PITA |
| 10:12.22 | MohammadAG | I have it remapped somewhere |
| 10:12.32 | MohammadAG | blue + up arrow key |
| 10:12.42 | flashn | the arrow/sym buttons are malplaced |
| 10:12.44 | flashn | really |
| 10:13.05 | jacekowski | well, i don't write poems on a phone |
| 10:13.15 | jacekowski | and i have "full" size bt keyboard |
| 10:13.21 | DocScrutinizer | on N900? surely not |
| 10:13.50 | DocScrutinizer | let's face it, N900 is short of one row on hw kbd |
| 10:14.24 | jacekowski | yeah, n97 keyboard is so much better |
| 10:14.40 | Surfa | i don't need extra row for n900 kb |
| 10:14.45 | LjL | my Milestone has 4 rows, but that results in very small keys... |
| 10:14.45 | Surfa | personal preferences |
| 10:14.47 | jacekowski | and the way it opens is much better |
| 10:15.19 | DocScrutinizer | the N810 kbd is really way better in that respect |
| 10:15.28 | MNZ | well I just tried hitting blue arrow + sym both with my left thumb and it seems that I manage to get it right each time |
| 10:16.00 | X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: ugh, not really. No key bump feedback and far too hard to press. |
| 10:16.29 | DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: I'm used to it, and I'm faster on N810 than on N900 |
| 10:16.49 | MohammadAG | I get 60WPM |
| 10:16.54 | MohammadAG | 72 on laptop |
| 10:17.02 | Shadikka | "while not all(x <= y for x, y in zip(deck, deck[1:])):" .. my head hurts. |
| 10:17.20 | TermanaN900 | Im with X-Fade - i like the n900 one better |
| 10:17.21 | DocScrutinizer | yuck |
| 10:17.48 | MNZ | I vote N900. (Small Print: never tried the n810) |
| 10:17.53 | DocScrutinizer | wtf "while not all" ? |
| 10:17.57 | MohammadAG | I haven't use an N8x0, so I have to agree the N900's better |
| 10:18.09 | MohammadAG | used* |
| 10:18.23 | LjL | scratches his head |
| 10:18.28 | Shadikka | DocScrutinizer: all(x) returns True if all values in the Iterable x eval to true |
| 10:18.31 | Shadikka | (*T) |
| 10:18.38 | svuorela | I like the keys much better on n900, but the layout better on n810 |
| 10:18.45 | DocScrutinizer | ayayayay |
| 10:19.09 | Shadikka | Okay, that's probably the most compact way of doing it (I cannot think of how to do it otherwise), but.. |
| 10:19.10 | rmrfchik | votes for n810 layout |
| 10:19.20 | Shadikka | It's definitely not the most elegant solution. |
| 10:19.49 | DocScrutinizer | isn't python nice? |
| 10:20.08 | Shadikka | hmm |
| 10:20.19 | DocScrutinizer | wait, is it even py? |
| 10:20.36 | visz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJeHHyXXS9A <- is that a men's wristwatch? |
| 10:20.42 | visz | Larisa Riquelme - lanzamiento del Nokia C3 |
| 10:20.43 | Shadikka | while not all(deck[i-1] <= deck[i] for i in range(1, len(deck))) would work |
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| 10:21.02 | Shadikka | It is Python. |
| 10:21.16 | Jaffa | X-Fade: pong |
| 10:21.17 | Shadikka | oh whoopsie, my train's leaving pretty soon o_O |
| 10:21.29 | Shadikka | (of _course_ I keep track of time.) |
| 10:21.32 | DocScrutinizer | Shadikka: that looks way better |
| 10:23.21 | Shadikka | gotta agree. |
| 10:23.34 | DocScrutinizer | really hates these oo-oriented coding styles |
| 10:23.59 | Khertan | How i can add shortcut on menu on maemo with qt ... QAction with shortcut are ignore |
| 10:24.20 | X-Fade | Jaffa: Would you agree I should just remove libgio from diablo extras*? |
| 10:24.34 | DocScrutinizer | prolly I'm too old to learn to like them |
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| 10:25.03 | Shadikka | DocScrutinizer: that was more like a functional coding style |
| 10:25.26 | Jaffa | X-Fade: AIUI, yes. |
| 10:26.13 | DocScrutinizer | Shadikka: yep, you're right. oo wasn't the right attribute |
| 10:26.37 | DocScrutinizer | maybe cluttered is more to the point |
| 10:26.52 | X-Fade | Jaffa: ok. exterminating... |
| 10:28.13 | DocScrutinizer | or let's call it the "Why use an array when we can use a dictionary of structures" coding style |
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| 10:30.52 | DocScrutinizer | gets headache on figuring what python does to memory usage by building up the lists to operate on, in above example |
| 10:33.17 | Shadikka | I'm not actually sure |
| 10:33.22 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, if something other than the bq chip takes over charging, the solid yellow light would go off right? |
| 10:33.33 | Shadikka | It might just reference the same list from two different points. |
| 10:33.46 | DocScrutinizer | errm, yes, think so |
| 10:33.59 | X-Fade | MohammadAG: Light is not driven by bq. |
| 10:34.07 | DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: it is |
| 10:34.10 | DocScrutinizer | :-) |
| 10:34.14 | X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: It isn't. |
| 10:34.18 | DocScrutinizer | ...as well at least |
| 10:34.27 | X-Fade | On meego, it charges without led. |
| 10:34.32 | DocScrutinizer | beg to disagree |
| 10:34.36 | X-Fade | So something drives it. |
| 10:34.47 | X-Fade | Or it needs to be configured to drive it at least. |
| 10:35.07 | X-Fade | My guess is that bme just pulses the led. |
| 10:35.13 | Shadikka | But anyway, memory usage in Python is usually not one of the first concerns. |
| 10:35.14 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, when nothing is handling charging the light is handled by the bq |
| 10:35.16 | DocScrutinizer | the RGB-indicator LED is driven by LP5523 *and* by bq24150 (for red+green) |
| 10:35.18 | jacekowski | http://www.hoovers.com/texas-instruments/--ID__11462--/freeuk-co-factsheet.xhtml |
| 10:35.20 | X-Fade | As you can edit the pattern with led pattern editor. |
| 10:35.21 | MohammadAG | it's solid yellow |
| 10:35.23 | jacekowski | Nokia accounts for about 20% of sales; |
| 10:35.33 | jacekowski | 20% stuff TI makes go to nokia |
| 10:35.35 | MohammadAG | X-Fade, you can't edit the solid yellow light |
| 10:35.41 | X-Fade | My N900 pulses green while charging. |
| 10:35.44 | TermanaN900 | X-Fade, that wouldn't explain emergency charging |
| 10:35.51 | MohammadAG | I'm on ubuntu atm, so no mce or bme |
| 10:36.26 | TermanaN900 | BME isn't running when doing emergency charging and the led is yellow during it |
| 10:36.40 | MohammadAG | indeed |
| 10:36.43 | DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: that's nice, though usually it pulses yellow. Solid yellow however is usually from bq24150 on mere hardware level, without any system involved |
| 10:37.01 | MohammadAG | dd your /dev/mtd5 with /dev/zero, then connect a charger :P |
| 10:37.16 | MohammadAG | (don't... do that) |
| 10:37.17 | Shadikka | I've just set the led to pulse turquoise when charging. |
| 10:37.30 | DocScrutinizer | bq24150 switching on red + green led via two transistors, during recovery charge |
| 10:38.54 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: afaik bq24150 is switching off the pin which drives yellow, as soon as any software takes over and reconfigures for *real* charging. So solid yellow means it's emergency charge |
| 10:39.21 | MohammadAG | and when that turns off, the light goes off |
| 10:39.27 | MohammadAG | any other lights are controlled by other software |
| 10:39.28 | RST38h | You are sure there is a pin that drives yellow? :) |
| 10:39.37 | MohammadAG | on maemo, that would be mce |
| 10:39.52 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: *maybe* you could configure bq24150 to still assert the yellow pin, while doing normal charge, but that's up to software then, which usually won't do that |
| 10:40.09 | *** part/#maemo richieeee72 (~richard@host86-133-186-116.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) |
| 10:42.03 | MNZ | Since we are on about hardware, is anyone working on that digital filter support on the hardware codec in the n900? |
| 10:43.02 | Shadikka | Now that's a binary operator for you. XAND. |
| 10:43.10 | Shadikka | A and B, but not both. |
| 10:44.15 | DocScrutinizer | MNZ: I looked into it, but for sure didn't think about actually starting a project to support it. Just know it's there and it looks versatile and worth a second look |
| 10:47.31 | DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: even nolo seems to stop the bq24150 solid yellow, and use LP5523 for doing these white light ramp-ups and stuff. But on comletely empty battery, so system won't even level-one-boot to NOLO, bq24150 kicks in and signals emergency recover charge in progress via lighting up red+green on a hw-level |
| 10:48.01 | MNZ | DocScrutinizer, I have always wanted to do some linux driver work, but taking a look at this I think it's way too complex for a noob right? |
| 10:48.14 | X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: But MohammadAG is running in ubuntu, so NOLO has touched it already. |
| 10:48.41 | MohammadAG | calls child abuse |
| 10:48.43 | DocScrutinizer | he's working on some very special wizardry involving bq24150 |
| 10:48.58 | MohammadAG | nothing's handling the chip |
| 10:49.07 | MohammadAG | when I run a charging script, the light goes off |
| 10:49.16 | MohammadAG | so I'm assuming the script does _something_ right |
| 10:49.16 | barisione | how are maemo apps translated usually? transifex? |
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| 10:53.05 | frals | barisione: ive seen a few use transifex at least (and i use it ;D) |
| 10:53.19 | barisione | I guess I should do the same then |
| 10:53.44 | barisione | I'm used to gnome where a bunch of people just translate my software without me even noticing |
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| 11:01.40 | DocScrutinizer | QtLinguist? |
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| 11:03.10 | DocScrutinizer | barisione: I guess it depends on the rest of tools/libs you're using |
| 11:03.40 | barisione | it's not a problem of tools I'm using (as a programmer), but how to get translators to translate my software |
| 11:04.07 | DocScrutinizer | for Qt based programs I'd guess using QtLinguist is the way to go |
| 11:04.44 | DocScrutinizer | for a gtk based program QtLinguist obviously is nonsense |
| 11:05.34 | barisione | hm, there is this: http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/maemo-extras/ |
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| 11:06.15 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, so..? |
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| 11:09.32 | DocScrutinizer | http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/linguist-translators.html is also nice |
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| 11:13.18 | barisione | DocScrutinizer: I have a different problem. you are suggesting a technical way to translate stuff |
| 11:13.38 | barisione | I'm looking for the place where translators get my strings and put their translations |
| 11:13.56 | DocScrutinizer | ahh, you need a management framework for all the tranlating groups? |
| 11:14.14 | DocScrutinizer | I see, no clue. ignore me |
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| 11:19.42 | MNZ | is the scratchbox environment a faithful reproduction of the OS as it is on the phone? |
| 11:19.50 | Stskeeps | no |
| 11:19.55 | MNZ | expected |
| 11:20.41 | MNZ | well, at least is the kernel source that I can get on scratchbox the actual source used to build the maemo kernel? |
| 11:21.53 | DocScrutinizer | ermm, no |
| 11:22.35 | MNZ | so how do I build a module or rebuild the maemo kernel? is it available on some public repo? |
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| 11:23.32 | DocScrutinizer | there have been reports the binaries shipped with images or via SSU are different to those you create from any available source. It's not completely clear yet if it's simply due to build environment differences or if there are actually different sourcecode versions used internally by Nokia |
| 11:23.42 | alterego | MNZ: you need scratchbox and download the kernel-source package. |
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| 11:26.19 | MNZ | ermm actually I did a apt-get soruce kernel. So what's the kernel-source package, alterego? |
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| 11:28.44 | MNZ | the package description says it's the kernel source for rx-51. I guess this is as close as possible? |
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| 11:32.54 | DocScrutinizer | close enough |
| 11:33.31 | DocScrutinizer | anyway it's probably a good idea to compile and install kernel and modules from same source, no matter what |
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| 11:34.52 | DocScrutinizer | ask MohammadAG, he should know by now :-) |
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| 11:35.51 | MohammadAG | rebuilding a module is easy |
| 11:35.56 | MohammadAG | in fact, I'm doing that right now |
| 11:36.14 | MohammadAG | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide#Compiling_External_Kernel_Modules |
| 11:36.25 | DocScrutinizer | how well do modules match the stock kernel? |
| 11:36.47 | MNZ | what about a module that's builtin? One would need to replace the kernel and I don't want to miss nokia-specific code |
| 11:38.04 | MNZ | MohammadAG, what's the difference between the kernel source from source of the 'kernel' package and the kernel source that the kernel-source package installs? |
| 11:38.31 | DocScrutinizer | if you modify a builtin module you'll have to build all modules as well. But you won't lose any 'nokia specifics' |
| 11:39.17 | MNZ | DocScrutinizer, unless the kernel sources we have are not the ones used to build the stock kernel |
| 11:39.43 | Stskeeps | trust me, it's the one |
| 11:39.43 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 11:39.44 | DocScrutinizer | yep, but as mentioned above, that's just rant |
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| 11:40.24 | DocScrutinizer | (yet?) |
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| 11:41.14 | MohammadAG | MNZ, use the source of the package "kernel" |
| 11:41.20 | MohammadAG | kernel-source is generated by that |
| 11:41.28 | MohammadAG | it's a copy of the kernel before anything is compiled |
| 11:41.35 | MNZ | MohammadAG, ah, thanks |
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| 12:07.25 | TTablet | Hey there! |
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| 12:07.36 | TTablet | Abou NITdroid.... |
| 12:07.44 | TTablet | How it is going? |
| 12:07.56 | TTablet | (NITdroid 2) |
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| 12:08.42 | MohammadAG | #nitdroid |
| 12:08.53 | TTablet | thx |
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| 12:21.44 | ramoncio | can anybody help me plz? I bricked my n900. it exists flash mode in just a second, so I can't flash it :( |
| 12:22.12 | flashn | >:/ |
| 12:22.41 | MohammadAG | take out battery, run flasher, connect USB, shove the battery back in |
| 12:23.04 | ramoncio | I'll try that right now, thanks |
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| 12:29.12 | ramoncio | Suitable USB device not found, waiting. |
| 12:29.13 | ramoncio | USB device found found at bus 002, device address 004. |
| 12:29.13 | ramoncio | Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2104 |
| 12:29.13 | ramoncio | NOLO version 1.4.14 |
| 12:29.13 | ramoncio | Version of 'sw-release': RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_MR0 |
| 12:29.15 | ramoncio | Booting device into flash mode. |
| 12:29.17 | ramoncio | Suitable USB device not found, waiting. |
| 12:29.25 | ramoncio | the usb icon appears for just a second |
| 12:29.48 | ramoncio | this is the command I run |
| 12:29.49 | ramoncio | sudo flasher-3.5 -F /media/Windows7/Users/ramoncio/Desktop/nokia\ n900/firmware/RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R |
| 12:29.49 | ramoncio | flasher v2.5.2 (Oct 21 2009) |
| 12:30.17 | Scelt | ?? flash |
| 12:30.23 | Scelt | ~flash |
| 12:30.24 | infobot | from memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
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| 12:32.37 | Scelt | ramoncio: you press the u key? |
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| 12:34.45 | pycg | how can i get qmake installed on n900? libqt4-dev qmake from sdk repos doesnt work |
| 12:35.13 | X-Fade | pycg: You can't. |
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| 12:35.38 | X-Fade | As the -dev package is hacked so that there are i386 binaries inside for scratchbox support. |
| 12:36.52 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (~thopiekar@p5B027658.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:38.00 | pycg | ok |
| 12:38.21 | ramoncio_ | sorry, my computer hanged |
| 12:38.35 | ramoncio_ | so this is the correct flash command? |
| 12:38.38 | ramoncio_ | sudo flasher-3.5 -F /media/Windows7/Users/ramoncio/Desktop/nokia\ n900/firmware/RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin --flash-only=kernel -f -R |
| 12:39.01 | X-Fade | ramoncio_: no |
| 12:39.11 | ramoncio_ | what should I change? |
| 12:39.30 | ramoncio_ | sorry, I lost the link |
| 12:39.35 | X-Fade | The EMMC bin is your internal storage. |
| 12:39.45 | ramoncio_ | oh |
| 12:39.47 | ramoncio_ | I see |
| 12:39.54 | X-Fade | You need the actual firmware. |
| 12:40.28 | ramoncio_ | n900/firmware/RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin |
| 12:40.31 | ramoncio_ | ???? |
| 12:40.48 | ramoncio_ | sorry |
| 12:40.49 | ramoncio_ | RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin |
| 12:41.04 | MohammadAG | yes |
| 12:42.59 | ramoncio_ | THANK YOU VERY MUCH |
| 12:43.08 | ramoncio_ | that was the problem |
| 12:43.19 | ramoncio_ | My n900 is back!! |
| 12:43.27 | *** join/#maemo Cervajz (~Cervajz@opensuse/member/Cervajz) |
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| 12:44.40 | ramoncio_ | thank you very much, I0m out for dinner |
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| 13:16.10 | crashanddie | boo |
| 13:16.43 | GAN900 | oob |
| 13:17.15 | crashanddie | make an effort: ood |
| 13:17.37 | FredrIQ | moo |
| 13:17.47 | FredrIQ | oop |
| 13:18.03 | crashanddie | boo |
| 13:18.04 | crashanddie | qoo |
| 13:18.08 | crashanddie | crap |
| 13:18.11 | crashanddie | poo |
| 13:18.13 | crashanddie | ooq |
| 13:18.47 | crashanddie | so, first horizontal, then vertical, then horizontal again, then vertical mirroring. |
| 13:18.50 | crashanddie | boo |
| 13:18.53 | crashanddie | poo |
| 13:18.56 | crashanddie | ooq |
| 13:18.59 | crashanddie | ood |
| 13:19.01 | crashanddie | boo |
| 13:19.26 | *** join/#maemo mnzaki (~mnzaki@41.234.186.113) |
| 13:19.32 | MohammadAG | /kick crashanddie |
| 13:19.51 | *** join/#maemo etrunko (~edulima@187.75.148.141) |
| 13:22.04 | crashanddie | wonders who the hell is behind Energy Star, and why have we been seeing them on our BIOS' for 20 years, even though every year someone else comes out with a better solution than their current crap. |
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| 13:30.47 | derf | crashanddie: It's a government program. |
| 13:31.02 | crashanddie | which government? |
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| 13:31.21 | derf | The US. |
| 13:31.25 | derf | Does it matter? |
| 13:31.47 | crashanddie | well, kinda |
| 13:31.57 | crashanddie | considering it appears on nearly any European computer |
| 13:32.14 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.energystar.gov/ |
| 13:32.27 | derf | We probably conned them into giving out tax breaks, too. |
| 13:33.25 | crashanddie | hmm, it's international, actually. |
| 13:34.01 | derf | I'm sure it is now. |
| 13:35.20 | *** join/#maemo raulfh (~raul@187.115.172.24) |
| 13:35.22 | derf | Anyway, the point is, Energy Star == tax dodge, and nothing to do with energy. |
| 13:36.02 | crashanddie | heh |
| 13:36.05 | crashanddie | "To qualify for an Energy Star logo, companies self-certify that their products comply with the standards. The Energy Department does not test products for compliance with Energy Star standards, and often there is no independent verification of what manufacturers report." |
| 13:36.16 | kerio | Shadikka: hmm |
| 13:36.20 | kerio | isn't that just a check for sortedness? |
| 13:36.20 | crashanddie | derf: not quite |
| 13:36.54 | crashanddie | "Devices carrying the Energy Star logo, such as computer products and peripherals, kitchen appliances, buildings and other products, generally use 20%â30% less energy than required by federal standards." |
| 13:37.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | sounds quite like 'CE' |
| 13:37.41 | derf | crashanddie: Who do you think wrote the standards? |
| 13:37.51 | crashanddie | well, as always, the industry |
| 13:38.31 | kerio | if list(deck) == list(sorted(deck)) |
| 13:38.43 | crashanddie | heck, my name is probably in a couple of standards drafts |
| 13:38.50 | crashanddie | and I was far from being unbiased |
| 13:39.02 | crashanddie | as timeless can certainly certify :D |
| 13:39.09 | kerio | you mean "crash and die" is in a lot of standards? |
| 13:39.10 | kerio | D: |
| 13:39.12 | *** join/#maemo spinningcompass (~hugo@adsl-99-116-208-178.dsl.frs2ca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 13:39.21 | crashanddie | well |
| 13:39.25 | crashanddie | never checked for that |
| 13:39.29 | crashanddie | but then again, that's not my name |
| 13:39.43 | kerio | i hope those are not plane standards |
| 13:39.43 | crashanddie | and "couple" is hardly "a lot" |
| 13:40.05 | crashanddie | kerio: I was a security consultant, if it makes you feel any better |
| 13:40.14 | MNZ | much better |
| 13:40.32 | *** join/#maemo carloscesa (~carlos@189.2.193.178) |
| 13:40.34 | crashanddie | which is one of the broadest terms I could think of, admittedly |
| 13:40.51 | Duckboot | A security Consultant named Crash and Die - Now I feel _real_ secure |
| 13:41.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | lol |
| 13:41.39 | kerio | oh, nitdroid has calls now? |
| 13:41.46 | Duckboot | kerio: Almost |
| 13:42.09 | kerio | cool |
| 13:42.19 | Duckboot | kerio: they are working on audio-routing afaik |
| 13:42.30 | kerio | haha what a pr0n clip during the video launch of the N8? |
| 13:42.44 | kerio | is reading RSS feeds |
| 13:43.07 | *** join/#maemo chenca (~chenca@187.113.118.24) |
| 13:43.35 | GAN900 | derf, quit being such a cynic. The government is only ever looking out for your best interests. *choke* |
| 13:44.22 | *** join/#maemo joga (joga@rikki.fi) |
| 13:45.07 | Duckboot | GAN900: And Unicorns really do exists. |
| 13:45.24 | Duckboot | s/exists/exist |
| 13:47.11 | crashanddie | Duckboot: I'm thinking unicorns really did exist |
| 13:47.52 | SpeedEvil | http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1025793/The-horned-deer-solve-mystery-unicorn.html |
| 13:48.05 | joga | does mappero have any command line parameters? It would be convenient to be able to make a shortcut that would display the route from gps position to some fixed target like home, using the "Reittiopas" route planner interface |
| 13:48.08 | *** join/#maemo Termana (~bradley@123-3-72-1.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 13:51.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | reit die Opas? |
| 13:51.52 | *** join/#maemo paroneayea (~user@fsf/member/paroneayea) |
| 13:51.54 | joga | www.reittiopas.fi :) |
| 13:52.13 | *** join/#maemo ToJa92 (~ToJa92@90-228-225-154-no126.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 13:52.26 | joga | mappero already has a nice interface to it, it's just that I need to manually click a few times to get the route |
| 13:52.44 | *** join/#maemo djdm (~deejaydee@rbldn.demon.co.uk) |
| 13:52.46 | joga | I'd like to have a couple of shortcuts like "Go home from here" |
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| 13:55.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | as well |
| 13:57.18 | GAN900 | Somebody should write a "SpecAnalyzer" application to check the numbers on rumor specs and tell you whether they're complete bs. |
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| 13:58.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | meh, maemo is incredibly lacking on such nice and actually simple integration: no way to click "take phot now" from contacts avatar selection. No way to store geo-coords to a contact, not to think about having a 'go there from here'. No copy of GPS coords to any other app in a simple manner |
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| 13:58.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | aso aso |
| 14:01.29 | GAN900 | It lacks polish everywhere |
| 14:01.46 | GAN900 | It's no surprise, given that it's a miracle the damn thing shipped at all |
| 14:02.06 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep |
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| 14:02.14 | *** join/#maemo TeringTuby (~TeringTub@87.213.105.245) |
| 14:02.35 | GAN900 | (which Nokia's marketting people like to point to like it's not embareassing) |
| 14:02.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | but meego will be so much better... Really! believe me! no kidding |
| 14:03.05 | *** join/#maemo merlincorey (~merlin@67.220.94.24) |
| 14:03.14 | psycho_oreos | meego with rpm hell |
| 14:03.27 | GAN900 | It will! We've got Intel and Novell n'shit involved! |
| 14:03.54 | Stskeeps | sigh, i've only had sanity with rpm so far |
| 14:03.55 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 14:04.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | yeah, so system integration and uniform UX can't fail |
| 14:04.26 | Stskeeps | considering how i usually rape OS'es, rpm hasn't been the least bit problematic |
| 14:04.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep same here |
| 14:05.03 | Termana | I'm not concerned about rpms |
| 14:05.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | RPM vs deb is kinda like emacs vs vim |
| 14:05.16 | Termana | I am concerned however over DocScrutinizer51 and Stskeeps raping OS'es |
| 14:05.18 | Termana | :P |
| 14:05.22 | Stskeeps | it's more fun when people compare rpm and apt-get |
| 14:05.22 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 14:05.49 | SpeedEvil | Can we not have a cat/dd war? |
| 14:05.53 | SpeedEvil | That'd be fun. |
| 14:05.53 | psycho_oreos | and there's no proper equivalent of apt-mirror |
| 14:06.43 | *** join/#maemo sergio__ (~sergio@157.Red-79-151-233.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 14:06.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'm temped to define a set of aliases and see how long it takes til people even notice they use zypper instead of apt |
| 14:07.22 | MohammadAG | I present to you, something that should go down linux history :P http://i33.tinypic.com/drec68.jpg |
| 14:07.30 | lbt | psycho_oreos: and no apt-cacher-ng :( |
| 14:08.07 | MNZ | MohammadAG, I've seen ~300 on an 8core i7 |
| 14:08.27 | satmd | :p |
| 14:08.31 | SpeedEvil | I've seen 8000 on a 486/75 |
| 14:08.37 | MohammadAG | xD |
| 14:08.43 | SpeedEvil | It was however a wierd app |
| 14:09.04 | SpeedEvil | I basically had several thousand sleep 5min going at once. |
| 14:09.15 | satmd | lol |
| 14:09.29 | MNZ | of course the load number stops really being of any use/meaning after a certain threshold.... |
| 14:09.32 | SpeedEvil | I was finding free domains in [a-z0-9].(com|net|org) |
| 14:09.36 | psycho_oreos | lbt, yup and we've silenced the rpm fans :) |
| 14:09.56 | MohammadAG | I was running make -j 100 |
| 14:10.03 | MohammadAG | compiling the kernel |
| 14:10.15 | SpeedEvil | This was on a 33k6 modem - which wasn't slow at the time, and already they were mostly gone up to length 4 |
| 14:10.27 | SpeedEvil | I now have a 4 letter domain name. |
| 14:10.41 | *** join/#maemo celesteh (~celesteh@sblug/member/celesteh) |
| 14:10.56 | kerio | SpeedEvil: what domain? |
| 14:11.17 | kerio | also, don't you mean [a-z0-9]+\.(com|net|org) ? |
| 14:11.29 | *** join/#maemo marciom (~marciom@187.113.118.24) |
| 14:11.41 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 14:11.50 | SpeedEvil | though also I checked single letters. |
| 14:11.52 | SpeedEvil | qkwv.com |
| 14:11.54 | kerio | oh, so... |
| 14:11.55 | kerio | hmm |
| 14:12.19 | kerio | what's the "one or more"? |
| 14:12.23 | kerio | "?"? |
| 14:12.30 | SpeedEvil | I picked it through the advanced means of placing snipes for a fiver on all ebay domain name auctions under chars. |
| 14:12.30 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 14:12.50 | SpeedEvil | I really wanted to express 1-4 - but I couldn't be bothered remembering the syntax |
| 14:12.55 | kerio | did you invent a nice backronym for it? |
| 14:13.11 | MNZ | SpeedEvil, [a-z]{1,4} |
| 14:13.16 | SpeedEvil | It's a duck surfing website. |
| 14:13.19 | SpeedEvil | Quackwave. |
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| 14:13.38 | kerio | heh |
| 14:13.51 | kerio | MNZ: [a-z0-9]{1,4} |
| 14:13.57 | kerio | can domains start with a number? |
| 14:13.58 | *** join/#maemo Zucca (~zucca@cs181163122.pp.htv.fi) |
| 14:13.59 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 14:14.05 | SpeedEvil | 4chan.org |
| 14:14.08 | kerio | oh right |
| 14:14.12 | kerio | feels dumb |
| 14:14.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | 1700.com |
| 14:14.16 | kerio | who owns 0.com? |
| 14:14.26 | *** join/#maemo killeus (~quassel@187.115.172.24) |
| 14:14.42 | kerio | oh, the IANA |
| 14:15.14 | MNZ | MohammadAG, btw, you'll probably build faster if you set the number of threads to something sane :D maybe double the number of cores? (guessing) |
| 14:15.33 | MNZ | ummm http://42.com wtf? |
| 14:15.57 | MohammadAG | MNZ, I wasn't building to get a kernel, was loading the PC to get more entropy |
| 14:16.03 | MohammadAG | which didn't exactly work |
| 14:16.14 | MNZ | Mouse wiggling FTW |
| 14:16.19 | GAN900 | Anybody else feel old when people talk about 1GHz ARMs like they're so 2008? |
| 14:16.32 | *** join/#maemo Zucca (~zucca@cs181163122.pp.htv.fi) |
| 14:16.36 | Jaffa | still has a 12MHz ARM250 in the loft :-( |
| 14:16.48 | Jaffa | And a StrongARM netBook in his study |
| 14:16.51 | kerio | bash on the keyboard like a monkey! |
| 14:17.26 | *** join/#maemo |CTAPOMAK| (~kvirc@host-92-124-135-223.pppoe.omsknet.ru) |
| 14:17.40 | SpeedEvil | I have a Z80 netbook. |
| 14:17.57 | *** join/#maemo andre900 (~user@g1.blanicka25.net) |
| 14:17.59 | _berto_ | fuck ARM, this is going to be my next computer: http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/26/commodore-usa-announces-the-pc64-an-atom-powered-pc-in-a-replic/ |
| 14:18.18 | _berto_ | (well, actually when they make one with a zx spectrum case :D) |
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| 14:21.23 | disse | heyho |
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| 14:25.56 | *** join/#maemo jacktheripper (~jacktheri@196.221.65.251) |
| 14:26.24 | jacktheripper | hey, I installed openjdk from the wiki. java is spitting out an error. It can't find libjli.so |
| 14:26.55 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@2a01:e35:243c:9250:223:54ff:fe69:226e) |
| 14:27.01 | GAN900 | The N9 specs thread is gold. |
| 14:27.13 | *** join/#maemo josemartins (~quassel@187.115.172.24) |
| 14:28.03 | jacktheripper | nvm, it works |
| 14:28.22 | disse | A little question: I compiled my first programm with scratchbox and saw it @ Xephyr. now, I wanted to test the same @ FREMANTLE_ARMEL. So, I changed this with sb-conf select FREMANTLE_ARMEL and wanted to compile. I give you some Information: http://pastie.org/1120422 |
| 14:29.19 | disse | and I created an other gtk file with ARMEL, but it doesn't worked too. |
| 14:29.53 | psycho_oreos | that's a simple user error |
| 14:30.11 | disse | where is my problem? |
| 14:30.33 | psycho_oreos | what you have: gtk_helloworld.c ... what you tried to make which the file doesn't exist: gtk_helloworld-1.c |
| 14:30.54 | disse | autch |
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| 14:32.31 | disse | why ARMEL doesn't work with Xephyr?? With X86 with no problems, but with ARMEL? |
| 14:32.43 | Appiah | O_o |
| 14:32.52 | disse | same commands |
| 14:33.07 | X-Fade | disse: Because your CPU is x86? :) |
| 14:33.13 | disse | ah, k |
| 14:33.34 | psycho_oreos | you could probably get that to work under qemu heh |
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| 14:47.18 | DocScrutinizer | muhaha. vulnerability in ActiveX-Control "UfPBCtrl.dll" of Trend Micro Internet Security. Allows execution of code in local context |
| 14:47.31 | kerio | heh |
| 14:47.42 | SpeedEvil | Umm. |
| 14:47.48 | SpeedEvil | Active-X is the vuln. |
| 14:47.50 | kerio | isn't there something similar to Muphry's Law for security? |
| 14:47.54 | SpeedEvil | Active-X is batshit insane. |
| 14:48.28 | SpeedEvil | It relies not only on the signator being honest, and non-compromised, but also producing 100% vulnerability-free code. |
| 14:49.09 | kerio | SpeedEvil: what could go wrong when using activex in a security tool? :D |
| 14:49.28 | DocScrutinizer | well Trend Micro is a antivir & firewall |
| 14:50.54 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 14:51.11 | *** join/#maemo dailylinux (~test@s21-06205.dsl.no.powertech.net) |
| 14:52.10 | DocScrutinizer | http://esupport.trendmicro.com/pages/Hot-Fix-UfPBCtrldll-is-vulnerable-to-remote-attackers.aspx |
| 14:52.26 | RST38h | has a PDP11-compatible palmtop. Eat that, punks. |
| 14:52.29 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:52.54 | DocScrutinizer | had a PDP11 |
| 14:54.19 | *** join/#maemo dr_s99 (~opera@TOROON47-1177874793.sdsl.bell.ca) |
| 14:54.40 | dr_s99 | Hi everyone |
| 14:54.59 | DocScrutinizer | not yet |
| 14:55.50 | *** part/#maemo dr_s99 (~opera@TOROON47-1177874793.sdsl.bell.ca) |
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| 15:40.15 | GAN900 | RST38h, why are you arguing with capacitive people? |
| 15:40.41 | GAN900 | RST38h, it's like arguing with liberals, you can't appeal to the emotional basis of their position. :P |
| 15:40.45 | kerio | resistive allows for a stylus |
| 15:40.48 | kerio | 'nuff said |
| 15:41.05 | GAN900 | kerio, resistive doesn't make me want to throw my phone at the wall. |
| 15:41.07 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: echo talk.maemo.org 0.0.0.0 >>/etc/hosts |
| 15:41.21 | RST38h | GAN900: I am not arguing, I am *hunting* =) |
| 15:41.23 | kerio | GAN900: meh, capacitive touchscreens aren't bad |
| 15:41.32 | kerio | my ipod touch works well |
| 15:42.34 | *** join/#maemo jpe (~jpe@d51528751.access.telenet.be) |
| 15:42.40 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, oh, but I'm having fun. |
| 15:42.45 | GAN900 | RST38h, well then, carry on. |
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| 15:43.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | hands RST38h a javelin |
| 15:44.03 | MNZ | hands RST38h a stylus |
| 15:44.55 | RST38h | More to the point though... |
| 15:44.59 | RST38h | Quesion: I have got two files (Image.c and Console.c) that qmake refuses to see. They are included as SOURCES in the .pro file, but the resulting Makefile does not mention them |
| 15:45.04 | RST38h | Any idea what may be wrong? |
| 15:45.14 | RST38h | (tried asking that on #meego, with nil result) |
| 15:45.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | RST38h: or want a M134? |
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| 15:52.52 | GAN900 | RST38h, no go here, either, apparently. |
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| 15:59.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | aims his MTHEL in tmo general direction |
| 16:02.15 | RST38h | GAN900: Yea, IRC has become useless for technical stuff lately, too =( |
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| 16:03.22 | Macer | ugh.. installing kubuntu on someone's pos emachine from like 2002 |
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| 16:10.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | RST38h: that's subjective |
| 16:10.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | RST38h: I'm sure you checked for silly UC/LC issues |
| 16:10.47 | RST38h | of course |
| 16:11.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | rename? atime? |
| 16:11.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | even strace? |
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| 16:13.38 | *** join/#maemo nicu (~nicu@212.103.70.50) |
| 16:13.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | or shoot with MTHEL |
| 16:14.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | the youtube vid is wort it - just for the music :-P |
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| 16:18.43 | *** join/#maemo antlong_ (~antlong@cpe-69-203-154-152.si.res.rr.com) |
| 16:19.08 | antlong_ | hello, does anyone know if its possible to view the contents of an sms via t-mobile.com |
| 16:21.06 | *** join/#maemo pablo2 (~pablo@189.2.128.130) |
| 16:22.14 | alterego | antlong_: this really isn't the best place to be asking that question .. |
| 16:22.19 | alterego | Don't tmobile have a forum? |
| 16:28.25 | antlong_ | touche |
| 16:28.41 | SpeedEvil | t-mobile UK does |
| 16:29.00 | SpeedEvil | But yes - that's an entirely provider dependant question. |
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| 16:54.48 | rtyler | howdy guys, I'm wondering if there's a quickstart tutorial I might have missed somewhere about syncing things like music to a maemo powered device like the n900 |
| 16:55.08 | rtyler | I tried syncing somehow with mass storage mode, but that only gave me access to my SD card |
| 16:55.20 | SpeedEvil | You plug n900 in |
| 16:55.33 | SpeedEvil | select 'ass rage' mode, and then simply copy the files. |
| 16:55.35 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 16:55.39 | SpeedEvil | mass strorage |
| 16:56.02 | rtyler | and I'm only permitted to push stuff onto the SD card as opposed to the phone's builtin storage? |
| 16:57.05 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 16:57.17 | SpeedEvil | If you don't select mass storage, it's not mounted |
| 16:57.30 | SpeedEvil | you're using windows? |
| 16:57.41 | rtyler | of course not, openSUSE :D |
| 16:58.07 | SpeedEvil | There is also sertting up USB networking, or using wifi, and then rsync/scp/... |
| 16:58.19 | SpeedEvil | I just rsync over wifi,as I'm lazy. |
| 16:58.57 | rtyler | heh, well I was hoping to take advantage of the podcasting stuff that banshee does |
| 17:00.27 | *** join/#maemo D-Iivil (~D-Iivil@KMDCCLXXXI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:00.37 | D-Iivil | _o/ |
| 17:00.38 | *** join/#maemo johnsq (nobody@88.78.broadband14.iol.cz) |
| 17:00.46 | johnsq | Hi |
| 17:02.19 | *** join/#maemo [DarkGUNMAN-Ext] (~user@host86-141-253-223.range86-141.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:02.20 | D-Iivil | I have a stupid question; is there a switch or option for cp -command @ xterm to copy actual files instead of symlinks? I mean when copying ie. symlink folder, it just copies the symlink instead the real destination. |
| 17:02.36 | DocScrutinizer | rtyler: mount sshfs, if you want kinda generic access, without the pain of USB mass stoarge and cable plugging |
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| 17:03.13 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 17:03.17 | SpeedEvil | cp -R or -r |
| 17:03.21 | SpeedEvil | or -d |
| 17:03.22 | SpeedEvil | I forget |
| 17:03.34 | DocScrutinizer | rtyler: or use sftp://user@n900 in your favourite browser/filemanager |
| 17:03.39 | SpeedEvil | and maybe busybox cp won't actually do that at all |
| 17:04.29 | D-Iivil | SpeedEvil, -r copies folder recursively. |
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| 17:04.39 | rtyler | nods at DocScrutinizer |
| 17:05.03 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:05.17 | DocScrutinizer | seems what you want |
| 17:05.20 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 17:05.32 | D-Iivil | DocScrutinizer, thanks. Will try it :) |
| 17:06.37 | D-Iivil | Stupid cp wont give any help of available whitches with --help |
| 17:06.38 | D-Iivil | :) |
| 17:07.01 | DocScrutinizer | nuke messybox, get decent tools |
| 17:07.48 | DocScrutinizer | apt-get install coreutils-gnu |
| 17:08.23 | DocScrutinizer | apt-get install bash |
| 17:08.29 | D-Iivil | DocScrutinizer, I cannot tell other users to nuke it. |
| 17:08.29 | D-Iivil | DocScrutinizer, need to get my tiny shell script to backup the real files instead of symlinks. |
| 17:08.32 | FIQ | hmm |
| 17:08.48 | FIQ | why isn't bash a color terminal anymore, did some modify it? |
| 17:08.52 | DocScrutinizer | echo PATH=/usr/bin/gnu:$PATH >>.bashrc |
| 17:08.53 | FIQ | cause it were last time i downloaded it |
| 17:09.30 | mikki-kun | FIQ: i think you need to either active that in the .bashrc or maybe write a couple of lines for it |
| 17:09.39 | FIQ | ok |
| 17:09.40 | johnsq | D-Iivil: busybox cp -L |
| 17:09.50 | FIQ | lol -L |
| 17:09.53 | FIQ | what a random switch |
| 17:10.02 | D-Iivil | johnsq, yeah, already got the answer :) |
| 17:10.03 | FIQ | should be -H at least |
| 17:10.10 | FIQ | hmm |
| 17:10.17 | *** join/#maemo LjL (~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl) |
| 17:10.17 | johnsq | FIQ: works also |
| 17:10.21 | FIQ | or well, -h should work as cp isn't putting out human readable info) |
| 17:10.25 | FIQ | +( |
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| 17:11.04 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 17:11.08 | johnsq | -h should show the help, and not use --help for help! |
| 17:11.15 | mikki-kun | FIQ may i ask which distribution you had the colored output in? |
| 17:11.25 | FIQ | ehm |
| 17:11.28 | FIQ | maemo |
| 17:11.48 | GAN900 | Now that's just obnoxious. |
| 17:11.54 | mikki-kun | uhhh, on your n900? :o i didn't have that |
| 17:11.58 | *** join/#maemo choppa (~choppa@pD95F1758.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:12.04 | GAN900 | neglected to include beer in gluten-free considerations. |
| 17:12.39 | FIQ | mikki-kun, neihter did I on this download |
| 17:12.45 | FIQ | but last time i had it. D: |
| 17:13.09 | FIQ | and yea, coreutils-gnu >>>> messybox-things |
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| 17:13.25 | mikki-kun | hm, i guess you can find somewhere on the interwebs some lines which make it output in color again :) |
| 17:13.38 | FIQ | yeah |
| 17:13.40 | mikki-kun | busybox ftl |
| 17:13.41 | FIQ | google ftw. :P |
| 17:14.40 | ieatlint | "bash" isn't colour... if you mean why isn't ls showing colour coded results, try "ls --color" |
| 17:14.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | out what in color? |
| 17:15.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | or just look at .bashrc |
| 17:15.23 | mikki-kun | hm, does anybody have an idea what made my python behave like this? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60982 |
| 17:15.34 | FIQ | well, i used to have ls --color=always as alias before and i will add it again when i feel like charging my N900 |
| 17:16.07 | FIQ | uh |
| 17:16.11 | FIQ | ls as alias to that* |
| 17:16.16 | kerio | FIQ: "ls --color=always -f" you mean |
| 17:16.19 | SpeedEvil | ls probably does not support it |
| 17:16.25 | SpeedEvil | that is - busybox ls |
| 17:16.30 | FIQ | is -f adding *, /, etc? |
| 17:16.34 | FIQ | uh |
| 17:16.42 | FIQ | SpeedEvil, meant gls. D: |
| 17:17.01 | mikki-kun | FIQ: ssh in there and then something like 'echo "alias ls='ls --color'" >> ~/.bash_rc' could already do the job |
| 17:17.05 | FIQ | alias ls='gls --color=always' if i don't fail (tired atm) |
| 17:17.12 | D-Iivil | -H or -L didn't work. |
| 17:17.34 | FIQ | hm |
| 17:17.43 | FIQ | if i recall correctly i had -F as well |
| 17:17.48 | D-Iivil | I still get cannot create symlink -error when trying to copy symlinked file to MyDocs |
| 17:17.52 | ieatlint | i'm impressed how many people are participating in a topic of making ls show colours :P |
| 17:17.55 | FIQ | (add suffixes) |
| 17:18.09 | MNZ | D-Iivil, try some tar magic |
| 17:18.15 | mikki-kun | ieatlint: that's called teamwork ;) |
| 17:18.34 | mikki-kun | something other OS-communities don't have that much ^^ |
| 17:18.42 | SpeedEvil | D-Iivil: mydocs is vfat |
| 17:18.47 | SpeedEvil | It does not support symlinks. |
| 17:18.59 | MNZ | SpeedEvil, he wants to copy what the symlinks point to |
| 17:19.35 | D-Iivil | SpeedEvil, yes, I know, that's why I want to copy the_real_file instead of symlink. |
| 17:19.56 | D-Iivil | FIQ, -F didn't help :/ |
| 17:19.57 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 17:19.58 | *** join/#maemo adisbladis (adisbladis@194.14.0.123) |
| 17:20.03 | FIQ | D-Iivil, oh |
| 17:20.09 | MNZ | D-Iivil, like I said, tar magic |
| 17:20.13 | adisbladis | Is there any way to solve the error while running pacmd? |
| 17:20.15 | FIQ | er |
| 17:20.16 | SpeedEvil | FIQ: you probably nered to install gnu tools. |
| 17:20.19 | FIQ | nvm |
| 17:20.21 | SpeedEvil | D-Iivil: |
| 17:20.22 | FIQ | @ D-Iivil |
| 17:20.42 | SpeedEvil | D-Iivil: the busybox versions are cut down and are only intended for noninteractiver use. |
| 17:20.49 | SpeedEvil | This is fine, and they work well for that. |
| 17:20.50 | MNZ | D-Iivil, try "tar chf - yoursymlinks | tar x -C where/do/you/want/to/extract" |
| 17:21.05 | FIQ | SpeedEvil, i installed grep-gnu, coreutils-gnu, and some other gnu things |
| 17:21.06 | ieatlint | tar is kinda over the top, heh |
| 17:21.07 | D-Iivil | MNZ, thx, will try it :) |
| 17:21.09 | DocScrutinizer | mikki-kun: ...or `nano .bashrc` |
| 17:21.16 | ieatlint | at that point, just do "cat file > dest" |
| 17:21.26 | ieatlint | permissions won't be kept, but on vfat, that doesn't matter |
| 17:21.26 | mikki-kun | DocScrutinizer: i'd rather use notepad than go with nano... |
| 17:21.29 | FIQ | (like nano for example) |
| 17:21.34 | FIQ | meh |
| 17:21.34 | *** join/#maemo mfabiop (~quassel@187.115.172.24) |
| 17:21.34 | D-Iivil | FIQ, I cannot force other users to use those. Must work with included tools. |
| 17:21.41 | FIQ | nano is nicer. :D |
| 17:21.50 | mikki-kun | i am a vim-user |
| 17:22.06 | FIQ | ah |
| 17:22.11 | FIQ | guess vim is fine too. :p |
| 17:22.23 | MNZ | ieatlint, he would have to loop through all files, perhaps use find or something. tar will do the job (if -h is supported in busybox tar) |
| 17:22.39 | mikki-kun | in the past i liked nano, but as i grew accustomed to vim i kinda cannot live without it |
| 17:23.11 | ieatlint | MNZ, rsync would be the better choice overall... assuming it's not as crippled |
| 17:23.25 | FIQ | btw, is screen compiled for Maemo? |
| 17:23.30 | MNZ | ieatlint, I know, but it's not there on busybox |
| 17:23.53 | ieatlint | ah, i guess i installed it then... double checked it was on my n900 before commenting |
| 17:23.54 | kerio | apt-get install rsync |
| 17:24.12 | ieatlint | somehow it just seems hilarious to do tar like that |
| 17:24.17 | DocScrutinizer | D-Iivil: doesn't support messybox cp the -L flag? |
| 17:24.18 | lcuk | timeless, ping |
| 17:24.23 | D-Iivil | MNZ, getting just "cannot change ownership" -errors with that tar -command |
| 17:24.23 | FIQ | it appeared that the Debian .deb (copy/paste ftw) worked just fine to install, but had broken packages and didn't existed the repo |
| 17:24.31 | MNZ | kerio, he's writing a shell script for end users, and doesn't want to force them to install any extra stuff |
| 17:24.46 | FIQ | s/the repo/in the maemo repo/ |
| 17:24.57 | D-Iivil | DocScrutinizer, -L gives "cannot create symlink" error. |
| 17:24.58 | ieatlint | D-Iivil, those are warnings i'd bet, just ignore them.. the file is there |
| 17:25.05 | kerio | oh, i got "cannot change ownership" too |
| 17:25.07 | DocScrutinizer | umm |
| 17:25.09 | ieatlint | the change owner error i mean |
| 17:25.18 | kerio | while unpacking a tar with different owners/permissions |
| 17:25.26 | kerio | i ended up using rsync :3 |
| 17:25.31 | kerio | rsync is epic |
| 17:25.38 | FIQ | that's because of +x problems in vfat (as vfat isn't supporting the +x chmod at all), kerio |
| 17:25.42 | FIQ | iirc |
| 17:25.46 | kerio | probably |
| 17:25.58 | D-Iivil | ieatlint, yeah, you're right! |
| 17:26.10 | kerio | but tar on busybox has no ignore-unix-stuff (or whatever the option is called) |
| 17:26.11 | kerio | so... |
| 17:26.24 | D-Iivil | so the tar -magic works :) |
| 17:26.40 | kerio | no, wait, the problem was that the tar had a read-only directory with files inside |
| 17:26.54 | kerio | so it created the directory, happily set it to read-only, and then complained that it couldn't write to it |
| 17:27.04 | FIQ | heh |
| 17:27.52 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~neopwn@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 17:28.46 | D-Iivil | running out of battery. Thanks for the help :) |
| 17:28.54 | MNZ | kerio, umm... I never thought of that.. so how do you solve that? |
| 17:29.11 | ieatlint | yes, rsync is awesome... and even works for transferring files over ssh |
| 17:29.13 | kerio | root; tar jxvf archive.tar.bz2 |
| 17:29.19 | kerio | then i cursed a lot |
| 17:29.36 | MNZ | oh of course |
| 17:29.37 | kerio | and then bzcat archive.tar.bz2 | tar xv |
| 17:29.37 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia-N900-42-11:~# ll bln |
| 17:29.39 | DocScrutinizer | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 2010-08-27 19:28 bln -> .bashrc |
| 17:29.40 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia-N900-42-11:~# busybox cp -L bln blnx |
| 17:29.42 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia-N900-42-11:~# ll blnx |
| 17:29.43 | DocScrutinizer | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 420 2010-08-27 19:29 blnx |
| 17:29.58 | MNZ | hrmmm |
| 17:30.48 | MNZ | DocScrutinizer, maybe there were other factors complicating the thing.... a symlinked dir, or some permissions thign? |
| 17:31.07 | DocScrutinizer | maybe, dunno what you did |
| 17:33.00 | MNZ | I didn't do anything. And he logged off |
| 17:33.10 | MNZ | moving on |
| 17:35.51 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 17:38.30 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-121-115-107.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 17:39.32 | DocScrutinizer | kerio: (messy tar) LOL! but wait, extracting .bz2 shouldn't work at all with messytar, as it doesn't know how to invoke any decompressor, like usual tar does on finding proper file extension |
| 17:39.46 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: read more scrollback |
| 17:39.58 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: uh? tar doesn't detect format by extension |
| 17:40.02 | kerio | also it supports gzip |
| 17:40.08 | luke-jr | or at all for that matter |
| 17:40.10 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: uhuh? |
| 17:40.22 | luke-jr | that's why you need to specify -z or -j for gzip or bzip2 |
| 17:40.46 | kerio | heh |
| 17:40.54 | kerio | tar zxvf is so standard |
| 17:40.59 | *** join/#maemo tobis87 (~tobiaskar@p5B288583.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:41.07 | luke-jr | tar xjvpf <-- my default |
| 17:41.12 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (~aloisio@187.113.118.24) |
| 17:41.15 | kerio | p? |
| 17:41.18 | MNZ | luke-jr, I'm pretty sure it does some kind of detection (file, extension, or whatever) because I use tar xf for everything |
| 17:41.20 | luke-jr | preserve permissions |
| 17:41.22 | luke-jr | like +x :p |
| 17:41.25 | mgedmin | votes for xvzf |
| 17:41.35 | luke-jr | or maybe it means owners |
| 17:41.37 | luke-jr | and only works for root |
| 17:41.39 | luke-jr | shrug |
| 17:41.42 | kerio | heh |
| 17:41.53 | *** join/#maemo Ryback_ (~ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 17:41.53 | kerio | understanding unix: ur doin it wrong |
| 17:41.57 | luke-jr | MNZ: pretty sure normal GNU Tar doesn't do that |
| 17:42.18 | mgedmin | luke-jr, not only -p works only for root, it's on by default when you run tar as root |
| 17:42.23 | tobis87 | FIQ: Regarding colors, add these alias to /etc/bash.bashrc and source it in /etc/profile http://pastebin.com/04iW34Nr |
| 17:42.29 | mgedmin | so I'm not sure what's the point of ever specifying it explicitlhy |
| 17:42.33 | mgedmin | maybe I'm missing something |
| 17:42.50 | luke-jr | mgedmin: lol, maybe it wasn't at one point |
| 17:42.58 | SpeedEvil | -p will also work in the case of groups won't it? |
| 17:43.37 | MNZ | luke-jr, tar --version : tar (GNU tar) 1.23 |
| 17:43.40 | luke-jr | kill $(ps -eo size,pid | sort -n | tail -n 5 | cut -b 7-) # easily make more memory space! |
| 17:43.57 | MNZ | luke-jr, tar xf works just fine whether it's a tar.bz2 or tgz/tar.gz |
| 17:44.00 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@122.212.45.242) |
| 17:44.27 | luke-jr | MNZ: so it does ⦠weird |
| 17:45.24 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:53.08 | *** part/#maemo tobis87 (~tobiaskar@p5B288583.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:53.26 | lcuk | mgedmin, you have seen many apps translated around the OSS sphere, for the gtk apps, which mechanism/service is commonly used? |
| 17:54.19 | mgedmin | gettext |
| 17:56.12 | lcuk | thats the runtime translation tool though, do the translators have to have access to the source repositories to actually put the translations there? |
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| 18:00.14 | mgedmin | lcuk, this is a bit beyond my expertise |
| 18:00.31 | mgedmin | usually yes, the .po files live in the upstream source repo |
| 18:00.36 | mgedmin | translators often have commit privs |
| 18:01.13 | mgedmin | there are various tools that I'm not familiar with (Transifex? Pootle? GNOME has something of its own, I believe) and maybe they automate some of those things |
| 18:01.34 | mgedmin | sometimes translators attach .po files to bug reports saying "updated $language translation, please apply" |
| 18:02.57 | LjL | aww, i just found out the N900 doesn't have a compass :( |
| 18:03.55 | mirf | magnetometer? |
| 18:04.01 | mirf | shame isn't it |
| 18:04.22 | mirf | but it's got other awesomness :D |
| 18:04.45 | LjL | yeah, magnetometer. i have a Motorola Milestone now, which has it, and it's handy for 1) navigation when you're on foot 2) augmented reality stuff |
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| 18:05.14 | LjL | yeah the N900 has some nice things, which is why i've been considering switching, but i considered a compass a relatively important one |
| 18:05.22 | LjL | for some reason i was convinced it had it |
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| 18:07.55 | kerio | people with N900s don't walk that much anyway |
| 18:07.56 | kerio | :P |
| 18:09.10 | visz | walking is for chumps |
| 18:09.51 | mikki-kun | real geeks build their own compass! ^^ |
| 18:10.12 | *** join/#maemo killeus (~quassel@187.115.172.24) |
| 18:10.34 | derf | Just live in a country where you can see the sun. |
| 18:10.56 | mikki-kun | derf: even without it, the polar star helps you find your way |
| 18:11.00 | mikki-kun | *finding |
| 18:11.37 | MNZ | and if all that doesn't help, just ask someone with a magnetometer |
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| 18:17.55 | LjL | gyroscopes would be even better anyway! |
| 18:19.12 | SpeedEvil | need both |
| 18:19.27 | LjL | both would be most excellent |
| 18:19.34 | LjL | and a barometer! |
| 18:19.50 | MNZ | The augmented reality thing is pretty awesome. Makes me feel like I'm holding a pokedex |
| 18:20.36 | SpeedEvil | http://www.st.com/stonline/products/families/evaluation_boards/steval-mki062v2.htm?wt.mc_id=enews_aug10_inemov2 |
| 18:20.42 | LjL | well on my Milestone at least, augmented reality apps i've tried were kind of below expectations. the compass doesn't seem very accurate. |
| 18:22.23 | SpeedEvil | The compass is quite accurate - if calibrated properly, and away from metal. |
| 18:22.33 | SpeedEvil | If this is not true, it doesn't work so well |
| 18:22.51 | MNZ | SpeedEvil, ... someone needs to stick that thing into an RC plane or something |
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| 18:24.37 | LjL | MNZ: i keep thinking about this automated small dirigible idea... |
| 18:25.39 | LjL | SpeedEvil: well maybe, in fact i know a person who's trying to make an improved (and open-source) version of Android's daemon for processing raw compass values... but, i don't know. on my phone, moving it in directions that shouldn't really affect the compass reading seem to affect the compass reading, and i can't seem to get it to calibrate in a way that makes sense. |
| 18:25.49 | SpeedEvil | MNZ: I happen to know someone who actually is. |
| 18:26.14 | SpeedEvil | LjL: do you have access to the raw accel and magno ouputs? |
| 18:27.10 | LjL | SpeedEvil: magno i think so, accel not so sure. i'll know better after i'll be home with a linux machine where i can actually compile stuff for android |
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| 18:28.05 | MNZ | SpeedEvil, mad props to him |
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| 18:29.40 | SpeedEvil | LjL: you know that you have to use the accel to correct the output of a compass? |
| 18:30.00 | SpeedEvil | LjL: That is - the accelleration and the field orientation are two vectors. |
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| 18:30.22 | *** part/#maemo trem (~trem@mol92-1-81-57-136-23.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:30.34 | SpeedEvil | You have to use your model of the earths field, and the difference in these vectors pointing, to work out the absolute orientation of the device. |
| 18:31.02 | nox- | moin |
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| 18:33.30 | *** join/#maemo tobis87 (~tobiaskar@p5B288583.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:37.20 | tobis87 | unrelated: native zfs kernel module http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=zfs_linux_coming&num=1 will be available next month. |
| 18:37.51 | Stskeeps | woo |
| 18:38.48 | tobis87 | i would really like to see a comparision, between xfs and zfs (both as native modules). |
| 18:40.56 | tobis87 | don't know, ext4 and brtfs may be still unstable, and reiser4. mmh, i don't think i want to use a fs with the name from a murderer. (old joke: he killed his wife, because she became FAT) |
| 18:41.10 | Stskeeps | VFAT |
| 18:41.10 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 18:41.21 | Stskeeps | god, i just had a 90's debian flashback |
| 18:41.24 | Stskeeps | get out of my head |
| 18:41.24 | Stskeeps | :PP |
| 18:45.42 | *** join/#maemo jacktheripper (~jacktheri@196.221.65.251) |
| 18:46.24 | tobis87 | Stskeeps: What do you think about multiple sd card slots, in the next nokia devices? We could make some mighty sw raids. :-D |
| 18:46.38 | Stskeeps | tobis87: n800, go nuts with zfs |
| 18:47.28 | luke-jr | tobis87: why Nokia? |
| 18:48.44 | MNZ | what's mafw? |
| 18:49.32 | tobis87 | Stskeeps: As I said, it was unrelated, zfs would be an overkill, like xfs would be. Didn't they said that they had to ported linux to xfs. :-D |
| 18:50.14 | SpeedEvil | This is clearly the CPU a new nokia/meego device should have: |
| 18:50.20 | SpeedEvil | http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4206391/Mindspeed-26-core-basestation-DSP |
| 18:50.22 | tobis87 | luke-jr: Or Intel, it was a joke anyway. |
| 18:50.36 | luke-jr | tobis87: why Intel? |
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| 18:51.03 | luke-jr | why joke? |
| 18:51.28 | nox- | SpeedEvil, 12W? isnt that a bit much? :) |
| 18:51.48 | nox- | (for something like a smartphone i mean...) |
| 18:52.05 | SpeedEvil | But feel the cores! |
| 18:52.39 | nox- | :) |
| 18:54.29 | babsher | The n900 has a few 'cores' already but they are specialized |
| 18:55.11 | tobis87 | luke-jr: Will meego, not be supplied by Intel and Nokia? I mean of course other tablets could also have sw raid. But I don't think that you could easily compile the raid modules on android. Joke, because sw raid would be dead slow, I don't think omap's are fast enough. |
| 18:55.28 | luke-jr | tobis87: shrug, I don't care about MeeGo |
| 18:55.43 | luke-jr | sw raid isn't slow at all |
| 18:55.49 | luke-jr | especially not RAID-0 |
| 18:56.04 | luke-jr | that's just doing writes to alternative devices |
| 18:56.13 | luke-jr | RAID-0 would be handy for a nice performance boost |
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| 18:56.25 | luke-jr | and you assume Android competes with MeeGo |
| 18:56.27 | luke-jr | it doesn't |
| 18:56.30 | tobis87 | luke-jr: Well raid-0 is not really raid, I did mean raid-5 |
| 18:56.32 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 18:56.39 | luke-jr | MeeGo competes with Ubuntu and Gentoo |
| 18:56.48 | luke-jr | RAID-5 requires 3 devices |
| 18:57.14 | kerio | with the space of one? |
| 18:57.17 | luke-jr | "real" RAID makes no sense for a handheld device IMO |
| 18:57.27 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: Sure it does |
| 18:57.43 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: I want important data to survive disk or chip failures. |
| 18:57.54 | kerio | SpeedEvil: so send it away |
| 18:57.54 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: but not filesystem failures? |
| 18:57.59 | luke-jr | or CPU failures? |
| 18:58.03 | luke-jr | or RAM failures? |
| 18:58.29 | kerio | or someone stealing your n900 |
| 18:58.32 | luke-jr | RAID's only purpose is for low-end uptime improvement |
| 18:58.52 | luke-jr | it's not useful for data survival |
| 18:59.03 | SpeedEvil | I note that there have been 4? people in here reporting failures of rthe emmc |
| 18:59.16 | *** join/#maemo mnzaki (~mnzaki@41.238.231.93) |
| 18:59.36 | luke-jr | also, I'll note that SSD by nature are in fact a kind of RAID |
| 18:59.46 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: sony is banning the PS3 Jailbreak users, and they've managed to get a court order to prevent the company sending any more devices |
| 18:59.54 | tobis87 | does the n900 actually have ecc ram? i seen a ecc error recently in dmesg. |
| 19:00.15 | SpeedEvil | SSD is not a kind of raid. |
| 19:00.23 | SpeedEvil | Any more than an elephant is a kind of tomato. |
| 19:00.40 | SpeedEvil | tobis87: ECC flash - yes - RAM no. |
| 19:00.41 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: it uses redundant NAND to handle failures |
| 19:01.20 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: Which is totally different from RAID |
| 19:01.21 | crashanddie | luke-jr: and RAID has not a lot to do with redundancy |
| 19:01.21 | SpeedEvil | The data is never duplicated. |
| 19:01.42 | luke-jr | LOL |
| 19:01.52 | SpeedEvil | The failure detection mechanism only kicks in due to a nearly incorrect, or incorrect read. |
| 19:02.06 | SpeedEvil | At that point, it may step in in some way to manage block errors. |
| 19:02.11 | zeltak | hya..anyone know whats the minimum size of micro-sd needed to boot nitdroid? |
| 19:02.12 | SpeedEvil | And copy the data around. |
| 19:02.12 | luke-jr | RAID requires redundancy, not inherently duplication :p |
| 19:02.39 | luke-jr | it's a /Redundant/ Array of Inexpensive Disks |
| 19:02.47 | *** part/#maemo Kegetys (kegetys@a91-154-251-20.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:02.49 | crashanddie | erhm... well, if you are running raid-0, is it still redundant? |
| 19:02.51 | luke-jr | SSD arguably is an array of NAND |
| 19:02.55 | *** join/#maemo Kegetys (kegetys@a91-154-251-20.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:03.00 | luke-jr | crashanddie: that's why RAID-0 isn't really RAID |
| 19:03.12 | crashanddie | ok, so we agree on that |
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| 19:03.45 | tobis87 | if i think about it, ssd's don't really need raid-5, since they will fail, after a time i will surely be dead. but raid-0 seems indead intersting. |
| 19:03.53 | luke-jr | I suppose you could define NAND as expensive, thus never usable in RAID.. |
| 19:04.11 | luke-jr | tobis87: uh, you don't plan to live long? |
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| 19:04.27 | pauly_ | hi |
| 19:04.40 | luke-jr | sure, SSD will fail after the *device* dies, but not after you or I, hopefully :P |
| 19:04.50 | Kegetys | ssd is not a disk so its not RAID ;) |
| 19:05.17 | luke-jr | it's not a disc, but how is disk defined? O.o |
| 19:05.19 | pauly_ | quick question anyone knows what blinking greed led light when charging n900 off usb mean |
| 19:05.33 | SpeedEvil | Are you colour blind pauly_? |
| 19:05.41 | SpeedEvil | blinking yellow is charging. |
| 19:05.50 | SpeedEvil | Blinking blue is you have a message. |
| 19:05.50 | mnzaki | pauly_, it means I've had enough, you can unplug me now |
| 19:05.56 | Kegetys | "something with a round shape resembling a flat circular plate" |
| 19:05.57 | SpeedEvil | solid green is charged |
| 19:06.06 | luke-jr | Kegetys: that sounds like 'disc' |
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| 19:07.09 | jatt | in easy debian I press the blue arrow and this is mapped to enter how do i fix this |
| 19:07.48 | rtyler | does maemo 5 run dnsmasq or anything else locally to cache DNS queries? trying to find ways to improve my performance on AT&T's crap EDGE network :) |
| 19:07.50 | Kegetys | afaik. "disc" is not an actual word but just an alternate to "disk" used for optical media |
| 19:07.58 | luke-jr | yes |
| 19:08.11 | kerio | so it *is* an actual word |
| 19:08.20 | kerio | it's like disk but for optical media |
| 19:08.27 | SpeedEvil | rtyler: It has its own internal DNS |
| 19:08.33 | SpeedEvil | rtyler: I'm unsure if it caches |
| 19:08.46 | luke-jr | err |
| 19:08.46 | SpeedEvil | No reason not to install bind in principle. |
| 19:08.50 | tobis87 | luke-jr: i thought that the ssd wear problem is only a theoretical problem. i mean the cpu of the n900 will be long dead before the ssd starts to wear. |
| 19:08.51 | luke-jr | afaik 'disc' is the actual word |
| 19:08.55 | luke-jr | and 'disk' some modern variant |
| 19:09.04 | Kegetys | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_(mathematics) |
| 19:09.05 | luke-jr | for non-visibly-circular drives |
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| 19:09.36 | luke-jr | tobis87: yes, the CPU in N900 is shorter-lived. |
| 19:09.39 | Kegetys | guess they are just alternate spellings according to that |
| 19:09.44 | luke-jr | tobis87: but I hope you aren't :P |
| 19:10.08 | mnzaki | by short-lived, how short do you mean? |
| 19:10.30 | luke-jr | mnzaki: the CPU is estimated to last under a year at full speed |
| 19:10.43 | luke-jr | even with Gentoo, though, my N900 is usually idle |
| 19:11.17 | luke-jr | full speed = 600 MHz, not overclocked |
| 19:11.27 | pauly_ | im prim pretty sure its blinking green so idk |
| 19:11.29 | luke-jr | overclocked obviously will rapidly degrade it |
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| 19:12.55 | kerio | it's all a scam so you'll buy the new, faster meego device! |
| 19:13.03 | SpeedEvil | No I won't. |
| 19:13.15 | SpeedEvil | I'm running my n900 for the next 4 years at least. |
| 19:13.15 | kerio | me neither |
| 19:13.16 | MNZ | neither will I |
| 19:13.32 | MNZ | I'm going down with my n900. |
| 19:13.34 | luke-jr | I'll buy whatever device fits my needs, regardless of what company makes it or what OS is ships |
| 19:14.06 | nox- | yeah same here |
| 19:14.27 | kerio | gee, i just like shiny toys |
| 19:14.31 | luke-jr | and nothing really has since Sharp's Zaurus SL-C* line |
| 19:14.32 | kerio | :| |
| 19:14.46 | nox- | and also, yes raid is no susbstitute for backup |
| 19:14.50 | luke-jr | so I'm very curious about their new IS01 |
| 19:15.03 | kerio | nox-: otoh, backup is not a substitute for RAID |
| 19:15.05 | kerio | :) |
| 19:15.11 | tobis87 | luke-jr: No, surely not... Through I sometimes think about the future... How will they look at the devices we use today. Consider you go, 20 years back in time with a sdhc card with a size 16gb. What had they thought of it. |
| 19:15.19 | kerio | RAID is meant to improve performance and uptime |
| 19:15.20 | luke-jr | kerio: RAID is just a cheap alternative to true redundancy. |
| 19:15.28 | nox- | kerio, yep |
| 19:15.31 | RST38h | Is it me, or have Extras* gone mad? |
| 19:15.35 | luke-jr | even for uptime, RAID can't handle a power supply failure, for example |
| 19:16.03 | RST38h | I am getting report of severla updated packages (including numptyphysics) but trying to update them returns "file size mismatch" |
| 19:16.50 | luke-jr | if you really need uptime guarantees, run two servers on a round-robin in Europe and USA |
| 19:18.14 | SpeedEvil | segments luke-jr. |
| 19:19.36 | MNZ | luke-jr, lets see your 'uptime guarantee' hold up when nuclear war breaks out! HA! |
| 19:20.03 | luke-jr | MNZ: if I need it to survive that, I could handle it⦠;) |
| 19:20.42 | luke-jr | in that case, you put them in a secured facility underwater, with some kind of fuses on the network connection to suppress the EMP |
| 19:20.55 | luke-jr | and you have a minimum 3 servers :p |
| 19:21.37 | MNZ | of course all internet communication is now controlled by the govt and cut off so it doesn't really matter |
| 19:21.42 | MNZ | oh, and your users are dead |
| 19:22.18 | SpeedEvil | http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/University-of-Michigan-nanoresonators/ |
| 19:22.26 | SpeedEvil | Interesting - displays without polarisers |
| 19:25.31 | tobis87 | MNZ: The satellites should still work, if they don't use a-sat's against communications. Depends, don't know how much MAD is considered today. |
| 19:25.47 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 19:26.42 | crashanddie | "British Airways apologized to passengers after an emergency message warning they were about to crash into the sea was played by mistake." |
| 19:27.20 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@124.49.122.172) |
| 19:27.22 | satmd | lol |
| 19:27.36 | satmd | hai2u2 |
| 19:27.41 | tobis87 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-satellite_weapon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction, and the internet was designed for an nuclear war. so it is decentralized. |
| 19:28.14 | nox- | haha crashanddie |
| 19:28.44 | nox- | i wonder if that really was a `mistake' tho... |
| 19:29.14 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-239-213.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 19:29.25 | MNZ | tobis87, I know it's decentralised, but when it comes down to the real deal, each country/alliance is going to grab their 'piece' and assume full control of it. Cut off communications with the enemy probably? |
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| 19:33.57 | tobis87 | MNZ: Don't know, it depends how long it would take to switch to a secondary system. If you have a first-strike from a nuclear-submarine, I doub they would have enough time. Sure Norad might have enough time to close their big fat door, but to shut down all systems and switch to backup. I don't think so. Since, they still have to communicate with all their units... |
| 19:34.50 | tobis87 | MNZ: But a attack will surely damage a huge percent of the gateways. |
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| 19:39.14 | satmd | test fennec alpha |
| 19:41.34 | tobis87 | MNZ: But we could also discuss if people from mars will land here in the next hundred years. Nuclear weapons are used to prevent war, not to use them. Except, the two bombs on japan, "they were test cases", I would be indeed good for the near east if the iran would have nuclear weapons, because this would balance power with israel again. But now enough on politics. |
| 19:42.23 | satmd | 'test cases' |
| 19:42.31 | tobis87 | yes, sorry to harsh |
| 19:42.54 | MNZ | nuclear war is never justified. |
| 19:42.54 | satmd | there were a lot better places from a stratetic point of view |
| 19:43.18 | satmd | they really were used to test effectivity against people |
| 19:43.22 | tobis87 | but, at that time no other country had nulear weapons. so only after russia became the second power, the weapons were not usable anymore. |
| 19:43.29 | babsher | nuclear war would destroy civilization |
| 19:43.32 | satmd | also one was enough |
| 19:43.45 | alterego | Depends who's justifying it. |
| 19:44.06 | satmd | true |
| 19:44.07 | MNZ | also, the iran-israel balance, IMHO, is not that simple.... a lot of people, me included, fear that Iran might actually use the bombs |
| 19:44.52 | crashanddie | tobis87: there's only what... 9 root dns servers which would operate in case of a nuclear war? |
| 19:44.58 | luke-jr | tobis87: the two used in Japan really were test cases. |
| 19:45.03 | crashanddie | tobis87: the rest of the root dns servers are hosted in the US |
| 19:45.06 | luke-jr | tobis87: the war was already over when they were dropped |
| 19:45.15 | MNZ | of course if they do it it'd be epicly stupid, because they simply are no match to israel/usa. Never mind the damages from their bomb(s) while iran would be literally wiped off the map |
| 19:45.28 | luke-jr | crashanddie: what does it matter? all the sub-root DNS servers would be dead |
| 19:45.53 | crashanddie | luke-jr: all of them? Would they? |
| 19:45.54 | luke-jr | MNZ: I'd prefer Iran did use the bombs. |
| 19:46.02 | MNZ | luke-jr, ? |
| 19:46.24 | luke-jr | MNZ: Israel deserves it at this point. |
| 19:46.36 | luke-jr | actually, I might be exaggerating a little⦠|
| 19:46.37 | crashanddie | let's not get into who deserves what |
| 19:46.46 | luke-jr | arguably nobody deserves nukes |
| 19:47.07 | luke-jr | crashanddie: all the ones relevant to the US. and as you said, Europe has its own |
| 19:47.18 | MNZ | luke-jr, imho israel deserves a bit of spanking, but not nukes. And like I said, iran would most probably seize to exist if they used even just one bomb |
| 19:47.30 | luke-jr | cease* |
| 19:47.33 | crashanddie | cease |
| 19:47.36 | MNZ | woops |
| 19:47.56 | luke-jr | MNZ: this is where you blame the speech recognition, and tell us where to find it |
| 19:48.36 | luke-jr | anyhow, Iran wouldn't cease just so long as they got the US at the same time |
| 19:48.39 | tripzero | the dominion deserves nukes |
| 19:48.46 | tripzero | and i gave it to them last night |
| 19:48.50 | tripzero | them and the zerrg |
| 19:49.00 | luke-jr | sneak EMPs into the military-hosting cities |
| 19:49.12 | luke-jr | wipe out all the US offenses |
| 19:49.50 | MNZ | I'd bet a good sum that the US will know Iran is about to strike several hours before they do |
| 19:50.03 | tripzero | EMPs have to be detonated in the upper atmosphere to be effective |
| 19:50.13 | crashanddie | seriously, I don't mind the theoretical discussions about what would happen in case of nuclear wars, but "attacking" countries specifically is just going to end up in a troll war |
| 19:50.14 | luke-jr | tripzero: they're line of sight. depends on the range you want. |
| 19:50.27 | tobis87 | MNZ: It depends on your view. Israel is totaly mitarilised by the US. Try to get the point of view of the counties around israel. I don't live there, so I can only argue about the facts i read. Also the big wall in jerusalem... My view is that israel thinks they can do whatever they want. I mean stopping the ship under flag from turkey. This could have been seen as an act of war against turkey, and turkey is in the nato..... |
| 19:50.35 | luke-jr | tripzero: just get up high in some big commercial building⦠|
| 19:50.41 | luke-jr | nearby all the military complexes |
| 19:50.49 | SpeedEvil | crashanddie: Unless it's a universally unpopular country. |
| 19:51.01 | crashanddie | I don't think such a thing exists |
| 19:51.06 | SpeedEvil | For example - nigeria. Do we really want all that spam? |
| 19:51.10 | luke-jr | LOL |
| 19:51.30 | crashanddie | SpeedEvil: so a few hundred idiots spamming the world is enough to deserve a nuke? |
| 19:51.37 | tripzero | lol |
| 19:51.43 | crashanddie | nice application of "innocent until proven guilty" |
| 19:51.44 | MNZ | Nuke em I say |
| 19:51.46 | luke-jr | crashanddie: people can get pretty bent out of shape over spam :0 |
| 19:52.11 | tripzero | nukes aren't as good as you might think. takes 2 of them to take out a hive cluster these days |
| 19:52.20 | luke-jr | nukes are boring |
| 19:52.31 | luke-jr | if you're going to take over, use EMPs and/or neutrons |
| 19:52.42 | SpeedEvil | brb, collecting shipment of diamonds, that I'm recieving for a modest fee. |
| 19:52.51 | tripzero | lol |
| 19:53.17 | tripzero | SpeedEvil, aka, DiamondSmuggler |
| 19:53.19 | luke-jr | neutron bombs are probably ideal |
| 19:53.30 | luke-jr | just wipes out living beings, leaving all the infra intact |
| 19:53.41 | luke-jr | blow one of them and start moving in⦠|
| 19:53.57 | luke-jr | lots of jobs for cremators too |
| 19:54.23 | luke-jr | and free iPhones |
| 19:54.31 | babsher | what is the best way to parse argv |
| 19:54.49 | luke-jr | babsher: Perl! |
| 19:54.50 | luke-jr | runs |
| 19:55.00 | babsher | well i am programing in c |
| 19:55.07 | MNZ | Picture this... a huge ass plane with ginormous amps blasting out a nigerian prince's email with a jamaican accent. Then a 'Eat neutrons suckers!' and drop the bombs |
| 19:55.54 | crashanddie | babsher: for (int i = 0; i < argc; i++) { println("%s\n", argv[i]); } |
| 19:55.55 | babsher | i was trying getopt |
| 19:56.03 | *** part/#maemo adisbladis (adisbladis@194.14.0.123) |
| 19:56.05 | babsher | but it is giving me errors |
| 19:57.06 | *** join/#maemo sepultina (~quassel@79-141.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 19:58.26 | crashanddie | babsher: yeah, cuz "it's giving me errors" is such a useful way of describing the error |
| 19:58.29 | luke-jr | crashanddie: ++i |
| 19:58.39 | crashanddie | luke-jr: doesn't matter |
| 19:58.55 | luke-jr | crashanddie: doesn't matter in practice, but does in theory! |
| 19:59.01 | crashanddie | luke-jr: erhm, no. |
| 19:59.04 | tripzero | babsher, getOpts |
| 19:59.17 | luke-jr | if your compiler doesn't optimize, and your instruction set doesn't have a post-increment opcode |
| 19:59.20 | tripzero | it's the best way |
| 19:59.38 | crashanddie | luke-jr: the incrementation condition gets evaluated on its own, so post or pre wouldn't matter |
| 20:00.04 | luke-jr | crashanddie: you're assuming basic optimization |
| 20:00.10 | tripzero | * luke-jr was optimized out |
| 20:00.17 | crashanddie | yeah, this isn't 1986 |
| 20:00.20 | luke-jr | :p |
| 20:00.28 | crashanddie | and you're not using assembly to write c |
| 20:00.36 | *** join/#maemo MNZ (~mnzaki@41.234.190.161) |
| 20:00.51 | luke-jr | and if the code ever gets put into C++, it could have practical problems too :P |
| 20:01.10 | luke-jr | well, except that you're in complete control of 'i' there |
| 20:01.49 | *** join/#maemo Vanadis (~Vanadis@84-75-182-160.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:02.00 | babsher | well from the few minuets i have spent with getopts i realized that it is garbage |
| 20:02.14 | luke-jr | wonders why C++ doesn't just take "foo[bar++]" and rewrite it as "foo[bar]; ++bar;" |
| 20:03.03 | crashanddie | isn't that exactly what it does? |
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| 20:03.23 | tripzero | yes |
| 20:03.43 | crashanddie | luke-jr: you're in a troll mood, go have a walk and beer outside, I'm buying |
| 20:03.57 | SpeedEvil | Some processors have postincrementing addressing modes |
| 20:04.08 | SpeedEvil | So the explicit form is slower |
| 20:04.37 | babsher | i am sure if you add -O4 the gcc will figure it out |
| 20:06.10 | luke-jr | crashanddie: you don't want me to have a beer. |
| 20:06.13 | luke-jr | trust me. |
| 20:06.19 | crashanddie | a coke then |
| 20:06.49 | tobis87 | i still don't understand why the icc (intel c compiler) is so much faster than gcc. |
| 20:07.06 | luke-jr | tobis87: because it only supports x86 crap |
| 20:07.50 | luke-jr | GCC has a middle layer to support multiple instruction sets |
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| 20:09.18 | MNZ | ok I'm confused. What does 'flashing' actually do? |
| 20:09.32 | tobis87 | i only compiled game engines and aircrack with it, but with ipo and pgo it is really fast. you only have to check fp-model source and -fstack-security-check, -static-intel are also nice features. |
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| 20:11.34 | tripzero | tobis87, its not faster in all cases |
| 20:12.08 | tripzero | from what i hear, it's really good at optimizing tight-loop stuff (like game engines) |
| 20:12.27 | tripzero | but if you were to compile something like firefox in icc, it'd probably be slower |
| 20:12.34 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@ip-86-49-9-217.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 20:12.39 | tripzero | (if it would compile at all) |
| 20:15.28 | tobis87 | have you tried it with auto-vectorizing, ipo and pgo? it reduces "recompute light" in sauerbraten in one map (nmp8) from 21s to 12,3s. |
| 20:16.40 | tripzero | tobis87, i've never used icc. I'm just relating what others have said on the matter. There's a reason why intel doesn't compile even their own distro using icc |
| 20:17.03 | tripzero | and the fact that it doesn't make everything faster is one of those reasons |
| 20:17.12 | tobis87 | just, as an example... there is also an enhanced version of par2, which makes use of the threading building block libary... all cores used. |
| 20:17.57 | tobis87 | tripzero: I don't say you should, I would only recommend it for very cpu intensive programs. |
| 20:18.10 | tripzero | yeah |
| 20:18.17 | *** join/#maemo shinkamui (~KamN900@ip68-11-94-155.no.no.cox.net) |
| 20:18.31 | tripzero | i think we are saying the same thing |
| 20:18.47 | tobis87 | yes |
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| 20:20.16 | *** join/#maemo n0mis (~simon@sign-4db60093.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 20:21.46 | MNZ | someone answer me before I brick my n900. I just built a kernel from the sources in scratchbox. Now theoretically I can just drop the package in and install it and everything will be fine and dandy right? or do I HAVE TO use the flasher tool? |
| 20:22.31 | *** join/#maemo Jajjax (~user@ua-83-227-220-12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:22.58 | Stskeeps | always keep a backup |
| 20:23.16 | MNZ | the flasher tool can backup my kernel? |
| 20:27.19 | lcuk | MNZ, it was more incase it all goes tits up and you need to reflash ;) |
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| 20:37.05 | lcuk | tripzero, did you by chance get any further with libmeegotouch on maemo? |
| 20:37.06 | *** join/#maemo Genewitch|3 (~genewitch@cpe-76-174-127-138.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 20:37.40 | tripzero | lcuk, no :(. But i haven't tried in 2 weeks |
| 20:38.06 | lcuk | *nod* |
| 20:38.08 | tripzero | i wish public obs for maemo worked |
| 20:38.11 | lcuk | hows your app going? |
| 20:38.37 | lcuk | or is that the 2week stoppage too |
| 20:38.51 | tripzero | yes. it's the stoppage as well. It's pretty much done. |
| 20:39.02 | tripzero | it does what it's supposed to do. too bad i can't test it though :( |
| 20:39.11 | tripzero | it runs on my igep board with meego though :) |
| 20:39.20 | tripzero | i'm happy about that |
| 20:39.21 | lcuk | ponders |
| 20:39.32 | lcuk | I need to get the dependency chart together for it lal |
| 20:39.34 | lcuk | all |
| 20:40.21 | Jaffa | re |
| 20:40.25 | *** join/#maemo guardian (~guardian@i07v-62-34-48-83.d4.club-internet.fr) |
| 20:40.34 | lcuk | hey Jaffa \o |
| 20:40.42 | Jaffa | X-Fade: seen the req. to get rid of libgio from chinook as well? |
| 20:40.59 | tripzero | i started another app to remote control my car from my phone. but it's just a UI skeleton right now |
| 20:41.10 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B49AC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:41.17 | tripzero | need to make the backend properly support stuff |
| 20:41.23 | lcuk | tripzero, thats how lots of apps start |
| 20:41.58 | luke-jr | lcuk: lots of poorly designed apps* |
| 20:42.13 | tripzero | http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/attachments/mp3car-gatherings/59600d1281854847-afk-fest-2010-connected-car-demo-planning-thread-screenshot2.jpg |
| 20:42.15 | luke-jr | apps that begin with UI, probably never see a library/console version |
| 20:42.52 | tripzero | luke-jr, this ui is designed to talk to a library |
| 20:43.09 | tripzero | which talks to a daemon over dbus |
| 20:43.09 | luke-jr | the way all UIs should be :D |
| 20:43.12 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 20:43.16 | lcuk | sees a nice front end liqcalc and a nicer backed osso-calculator-engine and ponders |
| 20:43.25 | tripzero | lol |
| 20:48.23 | luke-jr | so 10 days, and my N900 is laggy again |
| 20:48.29 | luke-jr | I have info to report! |
| 20:49.18 | kerio | luke-jr: "works on *my* machine!" |
| 20:49.37 | luke-jr | in 10 days, hildon-desktop has nearly doubled in memory usage |
| 20:49.43 | *** join/#maemo jhb (~joerg@p4FEF4B88.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:49.45 | luke-jr | it is now #3 most memory consuming process |
| 20:49.57 | kerio | killall hildon-desktop! |
| 20:50.01 | luke-jr | after hildon-status-menu (#2) and pulseaudio (#1) |
| 20:50.11 | luke-jr | but those two were consistent in their location |
| 20:50.31 | tripzero | did you add a bunch of widgets to the desktop? |
| 20:50.33 | luke-jr | new 4th place memory waster has come from even lower on the list: |
| 20:50.35 | luke-jr | /usr/bin/mafw-dbus-wrapper mafw-gst-subtitles-renderer |
| 20:50.36 | luke-jr | tripzero: no |
| 20:50.48 | luke-jr | tripzero: in fact, I suspect my 2 year old deleted some for me |
| 20:51.19 | luke-jr | so anyhow, mafw-gst-subtitles-renderer looks at first glance to be the biggest leak |
| 20:51.33 | luke-jr | from under 20 MB memory to over 40 MB |
| 20:52.10 | luke-jr | hildon-home went from 8 MB to 35 MB |
| 20:52.25 | tripzero | ew |
| 20:52.26 | tripzero | and yikes |
| 20:52.45 | kerio | haha wait, what |
| 20:52.48 | kerio | pulseaudio? |
| 20:53.05 | luke-jr | osso-connectivity-ui-conndlgs went from under 2 MB to over 20 MB |
| 20:53.21 | luke-jr | kerio: pulseaudio is consistently always the largest memory (ab)user |
| 20:53.36 | luke-jr | consistently around 75 MB |
| 20:53.40 | luke-jr | whether 1 hour or 10 days |
| 20:53.50 | kerio | and how is that *not* a problem, given the limited amount of RAM? |
| 20:53.59 | luke-jr | kerio: it's a consistent problem :P |
| 20:54.14 | *** join/#maemo mitsutaka (~mitsutaka@p1227-ipbf3907marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 20:54.14 | luke-jr | I set out to analyze the lag developed over a period of time |
| 20:54.42 | luke-jr | trackerd has gone 10 MB -> 16 MB |
| 20:54.53 | tobis87 | maybe it's me, but i only need shortcuts, i don't use any widgets and i also don't use multiple screen. through i don't have it on longer than two days. |
| 20:55.25 | mgedmin | I disabled wlan search accidentally; battery life doubled |
| 20:55.46 | lcuk | hmm |
| 20:55.48 | SpeedEvil | RSS!=memory |
| 20:55.53 | lcuk | how often do you drift between Aps? |
| 20:56.15 | SpeedEvil | http://www.selenic.com/smem/ lcuk |
| 20:56.17 | lcuk | mgedmin, I guess the amount of change will depend on how often you drop out of range |
| 20:56.52 | mgedmin | while I'm guessing it's due to my n900 being offline for the whole day |
| 20:56.57 | luke-jr | that seems to be the worst of it |
| 20:57.03 | mgedmin | (there's usually a wlan near me, so my n900 tends to be online) |
| 20:57.06 | kerio | hardware uses battery, news at 11 |
| 20:57.36 | lcuk | kerio, stfu, its about which and when and how to mitigate it |
| 20:57.37 | ShadowJK | luke-jr, this is like VSZ, right? |
| 20:57.46 | luke-jr | ShadowJK: size |
| 20:57.51 | ShadowJK | right |
| 20:57.54 | tobis87 | how is the swap fragmentation caused anyway? does the kernel forget, to free swap if a program exits? |
| 20:58.00 | lcuk | think apollo 13 ish |
| 20:58.07 | ShadowJK | tobis87, sex |
| 20:58.10 | ShadowJK | um |
| 20:58.12 | ShadowJK | sec. |
| 20:58.57 | ShadowJK | http://enivax.net/jk/kswapd.png |
| 20:59.07 | ShadowJK | This is swap access pattern |
| 20:59.38 | ShadowJK | I recorded the position (y axis) in swap of each write |
| 21:00.12 | ShadowJK | It's sequential at first until it reaches the end of the swap area, and then becomes increasingly random thereafter |
| 21:00.23 | luke-jr | too bad there's no way to specify "search when I have no other connection" |
| 21:00.37 | luke-jr | or at least "don't search, but DO start gprs when you get 2G/3G" |
| 21:00.52 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: yeah - a nice sequential would be nice with GC |
| 21:01.33 | ShadowJK | i found a workaround but it didn't fix the slowdown-after-long-uptime issue |
| 21:01.52 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: So that if you come across a block with 16 free, and 4 used at the end, you want to swap out 8, you copy the 4, and do an atomic write of 12 |
| 21:02.02 | luke-jr | why do you assume swap fragmentation is a problem? |
| 21:02.08 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: because it is |
| 21:02.17 | luke-jr | prove it |
| 21:02.25 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: Write speed of nonaligned blocks is hideously bad on SD |
| 21:02.29 | SpeedEvil | or emmc |
| 21:02.31 | luke-jr | if it was the problem, workaround would fix it |
| 21:02.36 | SpeedEvil | where blocks are 130K |
| 21:02.38 | SpeedEvil | or so |
| 21:02.47 | SpeedEvil | workaround? |
| 21:02.51 | luke-jr | [16:01:33] <ShadowJK> i found a workaround but it didn't fix the slowdown-after-long-uptime issue |
| 21:03.05 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 21:03.12 | SpeedEvil | I'm not saying swap is causing slowdown. |
| 21:03.22 | SpeedEvil | Just that swap is clearly broken, and should be fixed |
| 21:03.31 | *** join/#maemo nhdezoito (~quassel@187.115.172.24) |
| 21:03.50 | ShadowJK | luke-jr, after running my workaround, available swap bandwidth clearly increased, but, the system was also demanding more swap bandwidth |
| 21:03.54 | luke-jr | anyhow, I bet if you get rid of hildon-desktop, mafw-gst-subtitles-renderer, hildon-home, and osso-connectivity-ui-conndlgs, it will work better |
| 21:04.12 | tobis87 | ShadowJK: yes, i have seen this earlier, nice graph.. But how is this caused? Is there no patch availilbe, so that the kernel rearrange the swap every day. |
| 21:04.31 | ShadowJK | no it never rearranges swap |
| 21:04.51 | lcuk | luke-jr, or identify the leaks - are you using the latest build? I recall madam fixing some leaks around |
| 21:05.19 | ShadowJK | luke-jr, anyway in my use the mafw-* stuff crashes pretty regulary, and it uses dsp. on N810 the memory management was totally broken on that side |
| 21:05.27 | luke-jr | lcuk: I'm using what is in the repos |
| 21:05.36 | lcuk | so give latest a retest and see, and if it cures most, brilliant, if not if you can see where and give some pointers.. |
| 21:05.40 | ShadowJK | so im beginning to wonder if I lose some 10 megs of physical ram at each crash |
| 21:05.41 | lcuk | luke-jr, which repos |
| 21:05.52 | lcuk | standard pr1.2 binaries? |
| 21:05.53 | luke-jr | lcuk: whatever the M5 repos are |
| 21:05.55 | luke-jr | yeah |
| 21:05.58 | lcuk | ok |
| 21:06.07 | lcuk | cos the hildon components have had some work done later as you know |
| 21:06.12 | lcuk | in prep for a pr whatever |
| 21:06.18 | ShadowJK | because at the end the device was behaving pretty much like as if it had 64m physical ram |
| 21:06.24 | *** join/#maemo Rhoruns (Rhoruns@ip98-165-94-55.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 21:06.30 | ShadowJK | the end being before I gave up and rebooted |
| 21:06.33 | lcuk | it would be really good if you could give them a try |
| 21:06.43 | lcuk | ask MohammadAG51 about repository with them |
| 21:07.28 | tripzero | i wonder how nokia is going to handle harmattan 3rd party packages |
| 21:07.56 | tripzero | seems like they just lost the community to upstream meego |
| 21:09.12 | tobis87 | to arrange the memory in order to have large chunks of free memory in swap, instead of small chunks, which cause fragmentation... This remembers me somehow of ms-dos, the drivers also needed to be loadhighed in a special order, so they all fit in the upper memory block. |
| 21:09.45 | *** join/#maemo akeripper (~akeripper@213-21-75-230.bon.t3.se) |
| 21:10.04 | ShadowJK | tripzero, they'll get a thermonuclear device, drop it on third party devs, start requiring birth certificates, photo id, and a phd from ovi store contributors, break ovi store payments handling, and then proclaim the entire operation an outstanding success |
| 21:10.27 | tripzero | lol |
| 21:10.29 | luke-jr | killed those 5 processes and system is back to lag-free |
| 21:10.53 | luke-jr | tobis87: that makes no sense |
| 21:10.55 | ShadowJK | do you lose open apps if you kill hildon-desktop? |
| 21:11.02 | luke-jr | ShadowJK: no |
| 21:11.11 | ShadowJK | oh awesome |
| 21:11.18 | ShadowJK | iirc on n810 you did |
| 21:11.23 | luke-jr | those apps appear to have gracefully restarted |
| 21:11.28 | luke-jr | other apps unaffected |
| 21:11.33 | luke-jr | had to -9 hildon-home tho |
| 21:11.38 | luke-jr | until I did that, it remained laggy |
| 21:11.44 | luke-jr | so hildon-home at least is a major lag inducer :P |
| 21:13.41 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi) |
| 21:18.38 | luke-jr | so⦠when does cron.daily run on Maemo? :P |
| 21:19.45 | ShadowJK | lol? |
| 21:19.58 | ShadowJK | does cron run at all? |
| 21:21.06 | tobis87 | luke-jr: how? i thought the swap is used sequential first, later programs use space, which is located after the space which is used by earlier programs... if the swap is nearly full and you close a program, the space is freed, but another programm might need more space than the program you have closed. So the memory the new program allocates is scattered all over the disk. |
| 21:21.58 | luke-jr | ShadowJK: /etc/cron.daily/ exists⦠:/ |
| 21:22.26 | SpeedEvil | It's not to program granularity |
| 21:22.53 | SpeedEvil | It's whatever per swapout the swap algorithm thought it was right to swapout |
| 21:22.54 | luke-jr | tobis87: if swap is ever used more than a day, that's a waste of memory |
| 21:23.10 | luke-jr | a specific block of swap, I mean |
| 21:23.21 | luke-jr | to be used, pages need to be loaded into RAM |
| 21:23.27 | luke-jr | so if it stays in swap, you're not using it |
| 21:24.13 | ShadowJK | if something pushed to swap is later modified or freed completely, it ceases to exist on swap device |
| 21:24.30 | luke-jr | or read |
| 21:24.52 | luke-jr | well, I suppose Linux might retain the swap record to skip the "write to swap" later⦠|
| 21:25.20 | *** join/#maemo `alt096 (~LBI@unaffiliated/alt096) |
| 21:25.38 | luke-jr | actually, fragmentation per the usual meaning might be good for swap |
| 21:25.41 | luke-jr | on SSD |
| 21:26.02 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 21:26.17 | luke-jr | write whatever 32 (4K) pages you want to get rid of first to the same block.. |
| 21:26.19 | SpeedEvil | you don't care about intra-block fragmentation at all |
| 21:26.26 | SpeedEvil | only inter-block |
| 21:26.48 | SpeedEvil | Then you need some sort of GC algorithm too |
| 21:27.00 | ShadowJK | luke-jr, pages both in swap and ram are counted as swap cache :P |
| 21:27.09 | ShadowJK | it's in /proc/meminfo even |
| 21:29.38 | *** join/#maemo rm_you (~Adam@24-155-46-198.dyn.grandenetworks.net) |
| 21:33.02 | tobis87 | ok, only some is swapped out, but it is sequential right? so, if i leave my device on all the time, linux thinks i can swap this out because it is not used since a certain amount of time. and this is randomly? so, you have the problem that the data next to each other does not belong together? i don't know, could someone tell me why the swap get's messed up after some days? |
| 21:34.12 | SpeedEvil | It's not randomly |
| 21:34.27 | SpeedEvil | something keeps track of how often pages are used |
| 21:34.39 | SpeedEvil | the least used ones get thrown out |
| 21:34.39 | *** join/#maemo mnzaki (~mnzaki@41.234.188.102) |
| 21:35.55 | SpeedEvil | Simply as once you've swapped out the first 768M - say - the first 132K eraseblock may have 8 free 4K pages. |
| 21:36.32 | SpeedEvil | If you write these, the device internally has to do a read of 100K, for the initial data, and then a write of the whole 132k block |
| 21:36.44 | SpeedEvil | So the speed is 1/4 of what it might otherwise be |
| 21:37.30 | SpeedEvil | If there were only 4K free, then the speed is 1/32 of normal write speed |
| 21:37.38 | satmd | has a wd drive that is 4k sectors, but tells the os it has 512byte sectors |
| 21:37.43 | satmd | sighs |
| 21:37.59 | SpeedEvil | Exactly the situation with SD |
| 21:38.02 | satmd | 'alignment' |
| 21:38.07 | satmd | yeah |
| 21:38.17 | SpeedEvil | But the real sectors in that case are 130K or so |
| 21:38.27 | satmd | well, most filesystems by themselves use 4k boundaries |
| 21:38.29 | satmd | but! |
| 21:38.44 | satmd | that only works if those are at the same offset as the underlying blockdevice |
| 21:38.46 | SpeedEvil | exact alignment can vary |
| 21:39.08 | satmd | so, more fun example |
| 21:39.17 | satmd | 4k block you change first 2 byte |
| 21:39.31 | satmd | worst case you'll have to redo 2 blocks of the blockdevice, each 4k |
| 21:40.04 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 21:40.27 | ShadowJK | except on sd/mmc/emmc each is like 128-256k :) |
| 21:40.35 | satmd | :) |
| 21:40.38 | ShadowJK | so 2 bytes can turn into half a meg :D |
| 21:40.42 | luke-jr | wtf |
| 21:40.44 | luke-jr | N900 laggy again |
| 21:41.42 | MohammadAG51 | lcuk, ping |
| 21:42.02 | kerio | i want to be able to write a single bit |
| 21:42.10 | kerio | no, HALF a bit |
| 21:42.14 | satmd | :D |
| 21:42.21 | satmd | tristate bits? |
| 21:42.26 | MohammadAG51 | kerio, MALF a bit? |
| 21:42.51 | luke-jr | actually, writing half-bits doesn't cost anything on NAND⦠<.< |
| 21:43.02 | luke-jr | so long as the half is always 0 |
| 21:43.10 | kerio | satmd: how else are you going to represent FileNotFound? |
| 21:43.10 | lcuk | MohammadAG51, |
| 21:43.19 | mnzaki | How do I use the deb package generated by building the kernel package on scratchbox?? The kernel package is just a deb that installs a .fiasco kernel in /boot, what then? |
| 21:43.33 | lcuk | kerio, you have been reading too much dailywtf |
| 21:43.35 | MohammadAG51 | lcuk, what was the repo question about? |
| 21:43.44 | kerio | lcuk: i have |
| 21:43.44 | lcuk | it wasnt afaik |
| 21:43.48 | kerio | is it unhealthy? |
| 21:43.52 | lcuk | extremely |
| 21:44.02 | kerio | it's brillant |
| 21:44.03 | MohammadAG51 | mnzaki, er, you should get more than one package |
| 21:44.05 | tobis87 | ok, the pages are not randomly swaped out, but after usage. my point is, if not all pages of a program are swapped out, you could have some pages belonging to the same program swapped out later and very far away from the page which also belongs to the program. And reading all pages for a program would be, very slow, because the pages are not after another. |
| 21:44.10 | MohammadAG51 | -modules and a -flasher package |
| 21:44.20 | SpeedEvil | tobis87: no |
| 21:44.28 | SpeedEvil | tobis87: random reads on flash are not particularly slow |
| 21:44.30 | mnzaki | MohammadAG51, yeah I just unpacked the flasher package and the postinst doess the magic apparently |
| 21:44.44 | *** join/#maemo merlincorey (~merlin@67.220.94.24) |
| 21:44.53 | MohammadAG51 | the flasher package is only a postinst anyways :P |
| 21:45.43 | tobis87 | SpeedEvil: all right, i really need to forget all of the harddrive stuff. |
| 21:45.52 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@98.155.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 21:46.40 | MNZ | one final thing, just how 'easy' is it to restore the stock kernel? I need to download the entire firmware image? |
| 21:47.08 | MohammadAG51 | no lol |
| 21:47.22 | MohammadAG51 | apt-get --reinstall install kernel kernel-modules kernel-flasher |
| 21:47.25 | MohammadAG51 | and you're done |
| 21:47.54 | MohammadAG51 | if you brick the device, just dl the kernel package from the repos on a pc and extract using dpkg-deb |
| 21:48.02 | *** join/#maemo merlincorey (~merlin@nginx/adept/merlincorey) |
| 21:52.04 | luke-jr | or emerge fremantle-sources etc |
| 21:52.09 | ShadowJK | tobis87, imagine app A and app B. A shows your smss. B is for camera. You're texting and B has all its pages 0-7 swapped out to swap pages 0-7 covering sd blocks 0-1. You open camera lens cover. B's pages 0-1 are immediately swapped in and modified by B. Swap now has 0-1 unused. two pages from A get swapped out to 8-9. when you switch back to A, two pages from B get swapped to 10-11, and A's two pages are brought back in again. Now the swap file has two h |
| 21:52.16 | ShadowJK | oles in it. fragmentation |
| 21:53.16 | ShadowJK | And before you ask, writing in the first hole immediately to fill it makes sd rewrite the entire block |
| 21:53.35 | ShadowJK | which is what we wanted to avoid in the first place |
| 21:54.08 | *** join/#maemo technomike (~technomik@nat66.mia.three.co.uk) |
| 21:54.27 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@54.200.49.122-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 21:59.00 | *** join/#maemo Psi (~ben@player-92-149.lan.a5.auckmageddon.com) |
| 22:00.06 | *** join/#maemo SWFu (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu) |
| 22:02.22 | tobis87 | ShadowJK: So using ramzswap is a good idea, because it only modifies as much as actually is used. Writing and reading to/from storage causes to much to read/write because of alignment. |
| 22:02.41 | ShadowJK | um. |
| 22:03.07 | tobis87 | i mean swap on storage, emmc |
| 22:03.13 | ShadowJK | it doesn't change access patterns in any signigicant way afaik |
| 22:03.14 | lcuk | question: total number of applications in maeme extras-devel at this time (not counting dupes) how do I get that figure? |
| 22:04.40 | tobis87 | ShadowJK: ?, I thought the alignment was the problem, if ramzswap only write to memory, there shouldn't be a alignment. |
| 22:05.15 | ShadowJK | well you still have swap |
| 22:05.36 | ShadowJK | unless you want to encounter "Operation disabled due to low memory" constantly |
| 22:06.55 | *** join/#maemo pinheiro (~pinheiro@bl15-18-86.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 22:07.47 | *** join/#maemo DrIDK (~schutz@2a01:e35:2436:3590:222:15ff:fecb:d802) |
| 22:08.35 | DrIDK | Is it possible to know how many download has be done for an application in extra-devel ? |
| 22:08.36 | tobis87 | if it is a problem of alignment in general, why is this only caused after some time? because the free space of the swap partiton lies between two physical sectors? |
| 22:08.40 | DrIDK | Is it possible to know how many download has be done for an application in extra-devel ? |
| 22:09.49 | *** join/#maemo pinheiro (~pinheiro@bl15-18-86.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 22:09.53 | ShadowJK | tobis87, because physical sectors on sd are 128-256k and ram sector are 4k. |
| 22:10.22 | SpeedEvil | DrIDK: sort of |
| 22:10.40 | SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/download-stats/index.php?unixname=fmms&os=Maemo5&repo=extras |
| 22:11.13 | DrIDK | SpeedEvil: awesome!! |
| 22:12.56 | tobis87 | ShadowJK: Yes, but ramzswap with a size of 32mb, compresses 80mb of data... so i only need sometimes to write on storage. Ok, i have recenly read an article on these new 4k harddrives.... My problem is really that i'm still with my thoughts on regualar harddrives. |
| 22:13.00 | SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/packages/view/fmms/ also |
| 22:13.14 | SpeedEvil | Look at the last two peaks |
| 22:13.34 | SpeedEvil | they correlate with the latest version becoming available in testing, and then 10 days later (ish) extras |
| 22:14.29 | ShadowJK | 4k harddrives are fine, the os deals with 4k chunks of data too, even if it would talk in 512 byte chunks of data over sata. Worsr case is the harddrive writing double amount of data |
| 22:14.57 | SpeedEvil | Which incidentally implies that about 70% or so of people have extras-testing turned on. |
| 22:15.22 | DrIDK | SpeedEvil: how many repos are there : extra , test, and ? |
| 22:15.28 | tobis87 | Yes, you have to make sure the partition starts on sector, which is a multiplier of 8. I do understand it now, damn aligments... Can the kernel not be patched to modify ram sectors |
| 22:15.50 | SpeedEvil | Also rthat maybe 100K peeps have fmms installed. |
| 22:15.58 | SpeedEvil | DrIDK: testing, devel, extras |
| 22:16.11 | ShadowJK | tobis87, the hardware memory management unit deals with 4k pages |
| 22:16.12 | SpeedEvil | tobis87: yes |
| 22:16.17 | *** join/#maemo Funnyface (~user5330@136.80-202-97.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:16.24 | SpeedEvil | tobis87: But you really don't want 130k pages |
| 22:16.29 | ShadowJK | VAX had 512 byte pages I heard someone say :-) |
| 22:17.08 | SpeedEvil | This is one of those setting your foot on fire to cure athletes foot problems. |
| 22:17.29 | *** join/#maemo Funnyfacemob (~user@136.80-202-97.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:17.31 | *** join/#maemo elstupidos (~elstupido@96.248.224.79) |
| 22:17.34 | ShadowJK | big pages only make sense for a few specialized things that do their own extensive memory management, like java |
| 22:17.35 | SpeedEvil | Also - the above count counts all downloads - extras, testing, and devel |
| 22:18.01 | tobis87 | No, not for the ram, but can't you, just say collect 130k pages first, and then sync them to disk. |
| 22:18.23 | SpeedEvil | http://qdb.us/301221 |
| 22:18.26 | SpeedEvil | on memory managment |
| 22:18.29 | SpeedEvil | tobis87: yes. |
| 22:18.54 | SpeedEvil | tobis87: But then the pages written get 'deleted' one by one, until you have a fragmented swap |
| 22:19.35 | ShadowJK | where deletion really means the app owning the page has accessed and modified it |
| 22:19.41 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 22:19.59 | SpeedEvil | and the kernel therefore dropped the swapped page, so it's 'free' |
| 22:20.09 | *** part/#maemo elstupidos (~elstupido@96.248.224.79) |
| 22:20.14 | tobis87 | Nah, I avoid java as much as I can, even more after oracle got it. I even consider to not use brtfs in the future, because it was developed from oracle... |
| 22:20.15 | SpeedEvil | this may not have actually been ever read from disk though |
| 22:20.36 | ShadowJK | ideally you'd predict the future so that the pages are written in the order in which the apps will in the future access and modify them, which also requires predicting exactly what the user is going to do, which buttons the user will press in which order, and so on :) |
| 22:20.54 | SpeedEvil | You might as well not use ReiserFS due to the fact that the developer throws out perfectly good car-seats. |
| 22:21.41 | BugBlue | ext4 is just missing the killer features |
| 22:22.12 | luke-jr | I think ext4 developers place their wives above killer features. |
| 22:22.31 | BugBlue | don't be so serious :) |
| 22:22.55 | BugBlue | let's see ho btrfs turns out, they promise killing features |
| 22:22.58 | SpeedEvil | Anyway - it hasn't been proved yet that ext3 devs haven't killed people. |
| 22:23.14 | merlincorey | true |
| 22:23.16 | *** join/#maemo mengaetna (~mengaetna@78.167.132.134) |
| 22:23.36 | luke-jr | BugBlue: it was a pun |
| 22:23.58 | *** part/#maemo mengaetna (~mengaetna@78.167.132.134) |
| 22:23.59 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@net-91-81-208-108.cust.dsl.vodafone.it) |
| 22:27.58 | tobis87 | ShadowJK: So I assume, regarding swap, the best way how it could be done, was already done, |
| 22:28.19 | ShadowJK | well not really |
| 22:30.02 | *** join/#maemo psycho_oreos (~no@115.131.22.110) |
| 22:30.11 | xnt14 | Gah! just racked up a $200 bill because MyNokia sent messages to germany... |
| 22:30.33 | xnt14 | hmm |
| 22:30.42 | xnt14 | calls t-mobile |
| 22:30.42 | Stskeeps | why would it want to do that? |
| 22:30.43 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 22:31.20 | xnt14 | Stskeeps: apparently, according to my bill, my N900 sent 40 messages to germany... |
| 22:31.27 | xnt14 | I googled the number |
| 22:31.29 | BugBlue | suggests *any* textplan.. |
| 22:31.34 | xnt14 | registered to nokia |
| 22:31.38 | BugBlue | xnt14: does it start with 0049? |
| 22:31.38 | Stskeeps | xnt14: you're in US aren't you? |
| 22:31.44 | xnt14 | Stskeeps: yeah |
| 22:31.54 | BugBlue | 5 dollars a text? |
| 22:31.56 | xnt14 | I have an unlimited texting plan, but its domestic, not internatonal |
| 22:31.59 | luke-jr | BugBlue: long distance |
| 22:32.08 | xnt14 | BugBlue: hmm |
| 22:32.09 | xnt14 | checks |
| 22:32.22 | tobis87 | BugBlue: well i don't know of ext4, but reiser4 might had a KILLER feature... :-D i try to be not to serious, but if micro$oft would ever develop one of the best filesystems, would you use it? i mean look at what oracle now pulls of, after they got sun, i don't like android, put a patent war.... is always not nice. |
| 22:32.24 | BugBlue | when I message outside of my plan (like international) I pay about 25 cents a text |
| 22:32.35 | xnt14 | BugBlue: yeah |
| 22:32.42 | luke-jr | tobis87: arguably NTFS is one of the best |
| 22:32.53 | BugBlue | (eurocents, I don't know what the dollar right now does, but it can't be 5$) |
| 22:33.13 | BugBlue | tobis87: no. I won't use ZFS either |
| 22:33.14 | luke-jr | how many eurocents in a euro? |
| 22:33.21 | BugBlue | luke-jr: 100 |
| 22:33.23 | luke-jr | lame |
| 22:33.42 | xnt14 | hmm |
| 22:33.43 | tobis87 | luke-jr: which is a better version of hpfs... which was developed from ibm and microsoft together. |
| 22:33.47 | BugBlue | it's a lot in seperate coins :) |
| 22:34.28 | xnt14 | perhaps I should replace mynokia's daemon binary with a shell script... |
| 22:34.30 | luke-jr | there should be 16 shilling to a dollar, and 16 cents to a shilling |
| 22:35.04 | BugBlue | the last time I tried to pay in the UK there were 100 pence in a pound |
| 22:35.17 | kerio | luke-jr: so a cent is actually a 256th? |
| 22:35.30 | BugBlue | kerio: 1 bit of a byte |
| 22:35.32 | luke-jr | yeah |
| 22:35.41 | BugBlue | off |
| 22:35.47 | BugBlue | trying to reclaim my bed |
| 22:36.11 | *** join/#maemo MNZ (~mnzaki@41.238.230.166) |
| 22:36.27 | babsher | fat32 |
| 22:36.28 | Stskeeps | xnt14: to my knowledge it should allow you to unsubscribe or opt-out in the US, but i might be wrong |
| 22:36.45 | kerio | from the latin centum, -i, meaning a hundred |
| 22:36.47 | Stskeeps | xnt14: but running up 200mb worth of messages seem a bit wild and you should complain in a shop |
| 22:37.08 | xnt14 | Stskeeps: I tried, it failed, it also sent me a message (from a US shortcode) saying that unsubscription failed |
| 22:37.37 | Stskeeps | xnt14: i'd go complain where you bought it then.. but then again, it does say on the box costs may be encountered |
| 22:37.49 | tobis87 | i still hear ballmer being amousted of the therm k-locs used by ibm, for lines of code... He said microsoft could do more efficiant code, in less... blah, blah... blast from the past, serious i think os/2 couldn't have been as bad as windows got. |
| 22:38.13 | xnt14 | Stskeeps: the N900? |
| 22:38.30 | Stskeeps | xnt14: right |
| 22:39.08 | xnt14 | question is, whats the point in complaining to amazon? I like my N900... besides MyNokia... |
| 22:41.15 | xnt14 | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10506 - why is this marked as unconfirmed? it looks like it has solid evidence behind it. |
| 22:41.16 | povbot | Bug 10506: 'My nokia' unsubscribe attempt costs money. This is in breach of the UK regulations on premium rate texts. |
| 22:43.30 | *** join/#maemo mnzaki (~mnzaki@41.234.185.250) |
| 22:45.38 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure. |
| 22:47.43 | *** join/#maemo mnzaki (~mnzaki@41.234.185.65) |
| 22:49.26 | cehteh | woot ... i just accidentally found out the emergency call feature of the n900 when its locked |
| 22:52.28 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 22:55.50 | SpeedEvil | how? |
| 22:56.33 | kerio | :o emergency call? |
| 22:57.17 | psycho_oreos | there's nothing new about that |
| 22:57.20 | kerio | how do you access it? |
| 22:57.47 | crashanddie | xnt14: because this is hairy issue. If they confirm the bug, they're basically accepting guilt. I know the council tried to do something, but it ended up being pretty moot as I recall |
| 22:57.57 | psycho_oreos | when you have screen lock and you have to enter phone lock code you dial in the emergency phone numbers and there will be a call button |
| 22:58.06 | kerio | oh |
| 22:58.25 | crashanddie | psycho_oreos: which is standard behaviour on nearly any phone in the world |
| 22:58.50 | crashanddie | psycho_oreos: take any old phone, and when you *boot* it, and it asks for the PIN, just type 112 or 911, and it will offer to dial emergency |
| 22:59.06 | lcuk | my potential meego summit brief: |
| 22:59.07 | lcuk | Maemo Community, Standing on the shoulders of giants. http://pastebin.com/h5cE5QjR |
| 22:59.22 | lcuk | can someone give me a quick review :$ |
| 22:59.30 | psycho_oreos | crashanddie, I was merely pointing out what cehteh said was not of a big relevance |
| 22:59.49 | crashanddie | psycho_oreos: and I was merely furthering that point |
| 23:00.02 | tobis87 | where did these numbers actually came from? |
| 23:00.12 | psycho_oreos | crashanddie, better yet is to direct that to cehteh rather than me :p |
| 23:00.24 | crashanddie | well, you keep highlighting him, so no need ;) |
| 23:00.35 | lcuk | tobis87, which numbers? the 25k members is direct from stats gathered last year |
| 23:00.36 | cehteh | .. type 911 or 112 or 000 into the passcode dialog |
| 23:00.38 | psycho_oreos | not until now |
| 23:00.46 | cehteh | prolly nothing new, but i dint know it |
| 23:00.49 | lcuk | and the nearly 6k is from directly checking extras-devel a little while ago |
| 23:01.08 | cehteh | a "Emergency Call" button appears then (better do not hit it) |
| 23:01.12 | *** join/#maemo kW (~kW@unaffiliated/kw) |
| 23:01.16 | tobis87 | no, 112 or 911...? why did they choice these, easy to remember, or why |
| 23:01.19 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: Is ecosystem really hyphenated? |
| 23:01.48 | crashanddie | lcuk: is that the lcuk who started liqbase talking, or the marketing guy who was invited to Nokia HQ? |
| 23:01.49 | crashanddie | SpeedEvil: it isn't |
| 23:01.54 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: I would go "this entire ecosystem" rather than "the entire" |
| 23:01.57 | lcuk | crashanddie, this is the person who knows where meego stands now with reinventing the wheel. |
| 23:02.08 | lcuk | done |
| 23:02.09 | SpeedEvil | Actually - "this ecosystem" |
| 23:02.23 | crashanddie | "grand ecosystem" |
| 23:02.30 | lcuk | :) |
| 23:02.49 | lcuk | done |
| 23:02.54 | SpeedEvil | It's also too wordy |
| 23:03.01 | tobis87 | anyway my favorite: 0118 999 881 999 119 72 <- should have been in the n900 as an easteregg :-D |
| 23:03.07 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, its also very near the deadline and I have been ill |
| 23:03.13 | SpeedEvil | 'The entire eco-system has worked steadily to produce a rock solid platform capable of supporting every usecase possible with some of the most passionate developers on the planet' |
| 23:03.16 | lcuk | and its only an abstract |
| 23:03.21 | SpeedEvil | Fair enough |
| 23:03.37 | crashanddie | "capable of supporting every usecase possible"? |
| 23:03.45 | crashanddie | That's quite detached from the truth, isn't it? |
| 23:03.49 | lcuk | tell me something maemo *cannot* do |
| 23:03.53 | *** join/#maemo MNZ (~mnzaki@41.234.194.115) |
| 23:03.57 | tobis87 | http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_IT_Crowd#Calamity_Jen_.5B1.2.5D |
| 23:04.00 | crashanddie | Synch with exchange? |
| 23:04.03 | lcuk | haha |
| 23:04.18 | lcuk | i thought it could at some level |
| 23:04.27 | lcuk | MfE? |
| 23:04.31 | lcuk | potentially? |
| 23:04.33 | crashanddie | doesn't work |
| 23:04.37 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: Capable of supporting is somehwat meaningless if nobody actually knows the bits to poke to do it as they involve closed bits. |
| 23:04.38 | crashanddie | well, nice idea, completely screwed though |
| 23:04.39 | lcuk | then it will be fixed |
| 23:04.49 | SpeedEvil | Also. |
| 23:04.54 | SpeedEvil | Stuff does not always get fixed. |
| 23:05.02 | crashanddie | lcuk: the product's been out for a year nearly, it should've been fixed |
| 23:05.10 | crashanddie | especially considering it was part of the marketing material |
| 23:05.24 | lcuk | well talk to different parties |
| 23:05.29 | lcuk | i am on about community stuff :P |
| 23:05.33 | crashanddie | and no, synching contacts through MfE and email through IMAP isn't "working" |
| 23:05.35 | SpeedEvil | There is a deadline. You have perhaps 2-3 years of ongoing development by different people on the n900. |
| 23:05.53 | SpeedEvil | After that time, the people fall away, and it's left to bitrot. |
| 23:06.09 | lcuk | ok, somewhat bikeshedding :P should I submit this as is and then bicker? |
| 23:06.15 | crashanddie | my speculation: the same will happen to MeeGo |
| 23:06.28 | crashanddie | lcuk: one thing I'd change |
| 23:06.48 | lcuk | is all up for change |
| 23:06.57 | lcuk | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:06.58 | crashanddie | second line into the abstract: "creating everything from tiny scratch their own itch hacks" |
| 23:07.03 | lcuk | and will hope to get input on it :) |
| 23:07.13 | lcuk | into? |
| 23:07.16 | crashanddie | that reads just so wrong |
| 23:07.27 | lcuk | ok so reword it, ill go make a brew |
| 23:10.05 | pyther | Hi |
| 23:10.17 | crashanddie | "... have been involved in the community at different stages creating a wealth of products and knowledge, ranging from little hacks that soothed an itch, to full-blown games, kernel modules and even quality assurance procedures" |
| 23:10.17 | pyther | I have a mythfrontend and I would like to use my N900 to control it, as a remote |
| 23:10.34 | pyther | Does anyone know of any prgorams that will allow me to do this? |
| 23:10.44 | crashanddie | what the hell is a mythfrontend? |
| 23:11.12 | lcuk | ta crashanddie that does read better :) |
| 23:11.23 | pyther | myth tv (the frontend; gui application) |
| 23:12.24 | crashanddie | "Enter Meego, slick, shiny, cross platform and fully supported. A veritable Prince Charming offering to cure all the deficiencies." |
| 23:12.35 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: http://pastebin.com/7au3snWT - thoughts |
| 23:12.39 | crashanddie | That one made me smile, choke, almost, too. |
| 23:12.55 | *** join/#maemo n900uk (5612adfc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.18.173.252) |
| 23:12.59 | *** join/#maemo trumee (~nobody@cpc5-cmbg14-0-0-cust982.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 23:13.05 | n900uk | hello |
| 23:13.50 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, combined with the line change crashanddie just supplied I think that works well |
| 23:14.04 | n900uk | i directed by the wiki that i can get help here |
| 23:14.10 | lcuk | :) thanks |
| 23:14.24 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, it even earmarks the "but" quite well |
| 23:15.02 | crashanddie | n900uk: sure, how can we help? |
| 23:15.18 | crashanddie | lcuk: you're the butt with earmarks :D |
| 23:15.26 | SpeedEvil | solves n900uks problem. |
| 23:15.32 | SpeedEvil | puts down the anvil. |
| 23:15.45 | n900uk | i cannot delete file from my n900 any more. it is recognizn them as read only file |
| 23:16.11 | *** join/#maemo ciroipO (~ciron810@cpe-071-068-048-204.carolina.res.rr.com) |
| 23:16.20 | psycho_oreos | it might be a perms issue |
| 23:16.39 | lcuk | ok crashanddie SpeedEvil this looks reasonable to submit for now http://pastebin.com/KzmicX7E |
| 23:16.44 | crashanddie | ok, wifi -> macbookpro -> ethernet bridge -> vmware -> ubuntu -> tftp -> ethernet cable -> 5 year old laptop downloading debian; definitely not fast |
| 23:16.56 | crashanddie | lcuk: if it's just a draft, yup |
| 23:17.08 | lcuk | crashanddie, its enough for a submission |
| 23:17.14 | lcuk | it has to be expanded into a full keynote |
| 23:17.20 | lcuk | by the time of the summit |
| 23:17.24 | crashanddie | gfi |
| 23:17.26 | SpeedEvil | Also - whart's the audience. |
| 23:17.29 | lcuk | and I have to get over my nerves |
| 23:17.33 | SpeedEvil | Is hackers appropriate. |
| 23:17.42 | crashanddie | SpeedEvil: yes |
| 23:17.46 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: Imagine the audience completely naked. |
| 23:17.53 | crashanddie | SpeedEvil: that so doesn't work |
| 23:17.55 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: And covered in marmite. |
| 23:17.59 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, will discuss this later |
| 23:18.04 | lcuk | i might have more on stage with me |
| 23:18.08 | lcuk | :) |
| 23:18.12 | crashanddie | SpeedEvil: last time I tried that, some hot chick gave me wood, I could not move from behind the projector |
| 23:18.20 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 23:18.26 | lcuk | i bet that made an uncomfortable shadow |
| 23:18.35 | crashanddie | I was on the good side of the projector |
| 23:18.48 | crashanddie | (not the shiny side) |
| 23:18.54 | tobis87 | n900uk: which file, and where? |
| 23:19.08 | SpeedEvil | n900: and trying to acess it how. |
| 23:19.29 | crashanddie | SpeedEvil: you're gone further than we thought... you talk to your n900 now? |
| 23:19.38 | crashanddie | over IRC? |
| 23:19.45 | SpeedEvil | crashanddie: yes. |
| 23:19.54 | SpeedEvil | crashanddie: Sometimes it's the easiest way to copy and paste |
| 23:20.06 | n900uk | so far in my download folder and my camera. have not tried the rest yet |
| 23:20.37 | crashanddie | SpeedEvil: in nomine patris et fillii et spiritus sancti |
| 23:21.02 | *** join/#maemo akeripper (~akeripper@213-21-75-230.bon.t3.se) |
| 23:21.15 | pyther | Can I run a java app on my N900? |
| 23:21.29 | crashanddie | pyther: only through the debian chroot |
| 23:21.37 | pyther | :( |
| 23:21.46 | pyther | anyremote is missing from the repos |
| 23:22.13 | crashanddie | lcuk: you sponsored for the meegocon? |
| 23:22.16 | SpeedEvil | Is there any deep reason why java plugins couldn't be supported in the browser? Or is it just nobodies compiled it? |
| 23:22.33 | tobis87 | n900uk: Open Xterm, cd MyDocs; ls -a; -> http://pastebin.com/ |
| 23:22.56 | derf | AFAIK no one's gotten Java working on the device at all. |
| 23:23.10 | crashanddie | SpeedEvil: probably because nobody is interested in browser java plugins |
| 23:23.39 | b-man` | pyther: icedtea6 is available for maemo |
| 23:23.56 | b-man` | so yes, you can run java apps |
| 23:24.02 | pyther | ahh ok, cool |
| 23:24.15 | crashanddie | b-man`: how fast is it? |
| 23:24.24 | derf | Well, shows how much I know. |
| 23:24.32 | crashanddie | derf: ditto |
| 23:24.48 | crashanddie | though, icedtea? |
| 23:24.50 | b-man` | crashanddie: i've been able to run netbeans on my n900 ;) |
| 23:24.51 | crashanddie | seriously? |
| 23:24.59 | b-man` | yup |
| 23:25.06 | derf | It could be worse. |
| 23:25.09 | crashanddie | who comes up with these crap names? |
| 23:25.13 | derf | It could be blackdown. |
| 23:25.21 | b-man` | rofl |
| 23:25.50 | crashanddie | next we'll have an east coast rapper called nosy puss |
| 23:26.05 | tobis87 | tobis87: sorry, you should do ls -ao instead... |
| 23:26.13 | lcuk | submitted: http://conference2010.meego.com/session/maemo-community-standing-shoulders-giants |
| 23:26.25 | b-man` | there was already an application available called fapman LOL |
| 23:26.25 | crashanddie | tobis87: people died on the stake for less than that |
| 23:26.25 | tobis87 | argh, i did mean n900uk: |
| 23:26.40 | b-man` | *available for maemo |
| 23:27.16 | crashanddie | b-man`: yeah, I just can't help myself and smile everytime I see that name |
| 23:27.31 | tobis87 | crashanddie: well, people in general learn by failure... even evolution works that way. |
| 23:27.34 | b-man` | LOL |
| 23:27.39 | crashanddie | b-man`: "Fapman, for uber geeks, and uber fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap" |
| 23:28.04 | b-man` | xDD |
| 23:28.23 | crashanddie | I thought it was a porn media manager before reading the description |
| 23:28.56 | b-man` | he really should have thought of a better name xD |
| 23:30.00 | *** join/#maemo ohwhyme (~ohwhyme@81-178-196-113.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 23:30.14 | crashanddie | anyway, off to bed |
| 23:30.16 | crashanddie | 'later all |
| 23:30.26 | MNZ | good night |
| 23:31.10 | tobis87 | we also have MaeGirls, and i was interested, maybe some way to get in contact to the other side of the maemo community |
| 23:31.46 | tobis87 | but, no it is only a monitor for women's cycle :-D |
| 23:32.12 | crashanddie | yeah, other ideas for the name was "maenstrual" |
| 23:32.33 | n900uk | tobis87: done |
| 23:33.04 | tobis87 | n900uk: pastebin.com link? |
| 23:33.15 | n900uk | yes |
| 23:33.36 | tobis87 | where? |
| 23:34.24 | n900uk | http://pastebin.com/hEV5GQSE |
| 23:34.35 | lcuk | retweet this ppl: https://twitter.com/lcuk/status/22307306537 |
| 23:34.42 | lcuk | please :$ |
| 23:35.49 | tobis87 | n900uk: sorry, you forgot a space in the command do "lsX-ao" where X stands for a space. |
| 23:37.12 | n900uk | okay |
| 23:37.53 | crashanddie | lcuk: I will not |
| 23:38.44 | lcuk | why will you not :P |
| 23:38.57 | crashanddie | because I'm not a twit |
| 23:39.02 | crashanddie | I do not twitter |
| 23:39.15 | MNZ | no one 'twitters'. We tweet. |
| 23:39.26 | MNZ | :P |
| 23:39.29 | lcuk | ok mnz, will you tweet https://twitter.com/lcuk/status/22307306537 please |
| 23:39.30 | crashanddie | s/t /t use/ |
| 23:39.37 | crashanddie | crap |
| 23:40.08 | MNZ | lcuk, sure thing. |
| 23:41.27 | n900uk | tobis87:http://pastebin.com/R584zZt0 |
| 23:42.30 | tobis87 | ~nuke messybox |
| 23:42.30 | infobot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at messybox ... Bâ¢â¢M! |
| 23:45.24 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 23:45.42 | tobis87 | n900uk: the problem is, that i don't have my n900 right here, and the ls is diffrent from the normal ls on linux pc's... so this command is also not correct try "lsX-al" where X stands for a space, please... could be caused by a permission problem |
| 23:46.34 | tobis87 | btw, how did you get a autorun.inf in there? |
| 23:47.30 | n900uk | me? |
| 23:47.30 | FIQ | ~seen khertan |
| 23:47.32 | infobot | khertan is currently on #maemo (3h 19m 29s), last said: 'How i can add shortcut on menu on maemo with qt ... QAction with shortcut are ignore'. |
| 23:47.44 | tobis87 | n900uk: yes |
| 23:48.46 | *** join/#maemo xifle (elfix@wikipedia/pdpc.21for7.elfix) |
| 23:48.49 | n900uk | i dont know much about that. am just a learner |
| 23:49.42 | tobis87 | n900uk: yes, thats ok, could you please do ls -al in pastebin.com |
| 23:53.25 | n900uk | i opened the xterminal afresh and typed as advised: no such file or directory |
| 23:53.30 | *** join/#maemo panaggio (~panaggio@200-158-190-75.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 23:55.34 | tobis87 | did you do: cd_MyDocs (after that) ls_-al (underlines are space)? |
| 23:56.24 | n900uk | space |
| 23:57.10 | tobis87 | yes, since you typed first time without space, but yes underlines (_) should be space |
| 23:57.54 | tobis87 | i mean you should type in " " instead of "_" |
| 23:58.12 | n900uk | ok |
| 23:58.40 | n900uk | so: ls al |
| 23:59.16 | tobis87 | after you done "cd MyDocs", yes |
| 23:59.26 | n900uk | ok |
