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| 01:17.47 | Macer | well. fmms seems to get the job done as far as pics go |
| 01:19.27 | Macer | people still sell n810s for $250? |
| 01:19.28 | Macer | wow |
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| 01:40.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | heh, I paid 240EUR |
| 01:40.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | for the spare |
| 01:43.49 | Ken-Young | Does anyone (here) know if the N900 is still being manufactured? |
| 01:44.16 | SpeedEvil | Ken-Young: well - it's still being sold. |
| 01:44.34 | SpeedEvil | Ken-Young: It's moderately unlikely they'd have huge stocks. |
| 01:44.53 | Ken-Young | SpeedEvil, yeah, I want to buy one more before stocks dwindle, but I don't know if I should be in a hurry yet. |
| 01:45.18 | SpeedEvil | I really doubt it. |
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| 01:45.45 | Ken-Young | SpeedEvil, You doubt they're still being manufactured? |
| 01:47.41 | Ken-Young | Oh, sorry - I misunderstood. |
| 01:49.07 | zeltak | hya guys..i searched alot but just cant find the info..where do i need to put my aliases? .profile dosent seem to work |
| 01:50.42 | Ken-Young | zeltak, .profile works for me. |
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| 01:51.21 | Ken-Young | zeltak, Are you using xterm? |
| 01:51.41 | zeltak | Ken-Young: yeah..the default terminal that came with maemo |
| 01:52.06 | Ken-Young | zeltak, Which directory did you put .profile in? |
| 01:52.28 | zeltak | Ken-Young: home/user/.profile |
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| 01:53.05 | Ken-Young | zeltak, home/user/.profile or /home/user/.profile ? |
| 01:53.23 | zeltak | /home/user/profile |
| 01:53.32 | zeltak | sorry about the mistype :) |
| 01:53.53 | zeltak | here is the current file : http://paste.xinu.at/e1S/ |
| 01:54.18 | Ken-Young | zeltak, Who's the owner, and what are the file permissions on .profile ? |
| 01:54.52 | pronto | me |
| 01:55.18 | zeltak | ahh i see the owner is root |
| 01:55.36 | zeltak | wierd it dosent work also in ssh (when i log in as root) |
| 01:55.38 | Ken-Young | zeltak, Try making it user. |
| 01:55.46 | zeltak | k trying it now Ken-Young |
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| 01:58.24 | zeltak | yup workon the n900..wonder why it dosent work with ssh when i log as root..i have alos the same file in /root/.profile |
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| 02:03.26 | Macer | hm |
| 02:03.31 | Macer | application manager seems screwed |
| 02:03.54 | Macer | trying to install nitdroid |
| 02:09.42 | zeltak | say anyone else having problems with usb connection under linux (where it takes a few tries to get it working in usb mass storage mode)? |
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| 02:40.55 | tank-man | zeltak, i've always used sd card or wifi |
| 02:42.27 | Macer | blah |
| 02:42.47 | default_ | zel: sorry.. I don't use it often (about 2 times a month) .. but have not had that problem as of earlier today |
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| 03:01.16 | zeltak | thx default_ |
| 03:05.48 | default_ | could be a bad connection |
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| 03:41.57 | Macer | wow |
| 03:42.03 | Macer | nitdroid is awesome |
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| 04:00.48 | Ken-Young | Macer, I'm not familiar with nitdroid, what does it let you do? |
| 04:00.58 | Cabletwitch | Yarp. |
| 04:01.52 | luke-jr | Ken-Young: NITdroid is an Android port to NITs |
| 04:02.27 | Ken-Young | luke-jr, Can you run Android apps with it? |
| 04:02.41 | luke-jr | presumably |
| 04:02.46 | luke-jr | it's Android |
| 04:03.08 | luke-jr | perfect for idiots like Macer who just want a lame phone |
| 04:03.10 | luke-jr | :P |
| 04:03.50 | Ken-Young | Does it run as a Maemo app, or do you have to boot a full Android? |
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| 04:17.07 | Macer | luke-jr: hahahaha |
| 04:17.32 | Macer | yeah. everybody knows only the best and brightest use gentoo on their phones :) |
| 04:18.27 | Macer | i'm booting it back into deadmo5 now :) |
| 04:19.11 | Macer | luke-jr: honest go god. i would care less about maemo dying off if they at least added a portrait mode to the "desktop" |
| 04:20.46 | Macer | and actual built in hid support for bt keyboards like maemo4 had |
| 04:21.51 | luke-jr | Macer: portrait mode is easy |
| 04:22.04 | Macer | a functional portrait mode :-P |
| 04:22.20 | Macer | not that disgusting non-usable hackery that just rotates a non-resizing screen around |
| 04:22.33 | Macer | android handles it nicely |
| 04:22.42 | Macer | as does any other OS than maemo :) |
| 04:22.58 | luke-jr | hmm I see what you mean |
| 04:23.02 | luke-jr | the desktop doesn't really rotate |
| 04:23.13 | Macer | well.. it does "rotate" |
| 04:23.20 | Macer | but you can tell it isn't meant to do that |
| 04:23.22 | luke-jr | but not resize |
| 04:23.35 | Macer | or reposition |
| 04:23.54 | Macer | i just hope that nitdroid figures out a few things. the gsm, gps, and cam is all that is left |
| 04:24.06 | Macer | but i am sure nokia will do whatever it can to prevent it from working in android |
| 04:24.22 | luke-jr | GPS is pretty much a given |
| 04:24.26 | Macer | as they are unwilling to admit their OSes are failures :) |
| 04:24.35 | luke-jr | have someone from NITdroid contact me ;) |
| 04:24.43 | Macer | just go to #nitdroid |
| 04:24.46 | luke-jr | I'm there |
| 04:24.48 | Macer | i'm sure someone there will help you heh |
| 04:25.02 | luke-jr | I don't need help. |
| 04:25.03 | Macer | but the cams and the gps and modem are the last 3 things |
| 04:25.04 | luke-jr | they do. |
| 04:25.10 | luke-jr | I have GPS working on Gentoo 10)% |
| 04:25.12 | luke-jr | 100% |
| 04:25.19 | lpotter | quite sure symbian is still the most used/selling phone os |
| 04:25.32 | lpotter | not sure if that means its a failure or not |
| 04:25.33 | Macer | lpotter: yeah i suppose if you include crap phones too ;) |
| 04:25.47 | Macer | people who have their drug dealing burn phones don't care what os it runs |
| 04:26.14 | lpotter | you mean s30 and s40 |
| 04:27.33 | Macer | heh. well i am betting that statistic will close up soon enough |
| 04:27.52 | lpotter | then wtf are you doing here? being a troll? |
| 04:28.37 | Macer | no. i don't care about symbian. maemo is still good. it will just go stale soon enough. |
| 04:28.51 | Macer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Mobile_devices |
| 04:29.54 | Macer | wow.. 10% for android... why is that statistic so off on the symbian wikipedia entry..maybe it's outdated |
| 04:30.31 | lpotter | says 2010 Q1,. thats fairly outdated |
| 04:31.26 | lpotter | youve been listening to US tech media too much |
| 04:31.35 | Macer | yeah but the symbian entry has q1 of 2010 at 4.7% |
| 04:31.40 | Macer | for android |
| 04:31.54 | lpotter | the graphic says 44% |
| 04:32.27 | Macer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbian_OS |
| 04:32.59 | Macer | i was looking at the competition section |
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| 04:33.03 | Macer | Although the share of the global smartphone market dropped from 52.4% in 2008 to 47.2% in 2009 |
| 04:33.12 | Macer | wow that is a huge drop in market share |
| 04:34.53 | lpotter | 5%? |
| 04:35.49 | Macer | yes. 5% of a market share is a huge drop |
| 04:36.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | Macer: please stop trolling |
| 04:36.54 | lpotter | in that case, apple is hugely more poplular than android |
| 04:37.07 | Macer | well. i'm not but ok. onthe brighter side... the front cam works great in maemo |
| 04:37.12 | lpotter | and synbian is insainly more popular than all |
| 04:37.15 | Macer | i was surprised how well it video chatted :) |
| 04:38.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | Macer: please stop trolling |
| 04:38.57 | Macer | er. i wasn't. i was talking about using my n900 front cam for video chatting over skype and gtalk that worked well |
| 04:42.07 | Macer | nokia holds 75% of the chinese market share. wow. doesn't show which operating systems tho. |
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| 05:08.08 | Scifi | Hi, Is autobuilder still down? |
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| 05:33.12 | Jaffa | achipa: Cool, thanks |
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| 05:53.07 | phish3 | hey guys, i'm looking to develop an event based application.. I've done my share of android deving and find it does things poorly here - you basically must poll here |
| 05:53.21 | phish3 | but I'm wondering how maemo does with sockets being left open over time |
| 05:53.32 | phish3 | do they become stale as a result of power saving or anything? |
| 05:53.53 | luke-jr | they might get reset if the network connection changes |
| 05:54.45 | phish3 | but so lets say things are pretty stable, when the phone isn't doing anything for a moment or lets say the screen turns off, the sockets are still good? |
| 05:55.06 | phish3 | oh and is my application told when the sockets are ... killed? |
| 05:55.21 | phish3 | android... they just are stale, you have no way of telling unless you watch for timeouts |
| 05:56.04 | luke-jr | should work just like any other Linux system |
| 05:56.04 | phish3 | completely new to maemo so I'm just seeing if it can help for these parts |
| 05:56.17 | luke-jr | ordinary BSD sockets |
| 05:56.26 | phish3 | well I get that that's the api |
| 05:57.12 | luke-jr | Maemo doesn't have any custom API nonsense (at least not for sockets) |
| 05:57.27 | luke-jr | it's exactly the same code that would be running on your desktop system |
| 05:57.38 | phish3 | hmm, like I said, I get that and that's good |
| 05:58.03 | phish3 | I'm just wondering if lets say cell tower changes will propigate up teh stack "like it should" |
| 05:58.20 | luke-jr | or shouldn't. |
| 05:58.24 | phish3 | yea |
| 05:58.34 | luke-jr | if I lose cell signal, I don't want my connections reset. |
| 05:58.41 | phish3 | yes, good catch |
| 05:58.45 | luke-jr | I want them to try to stick around in case I go back |
| 05:59.18 | luke-jr | when/if it does timeout, I think you'd get an EOF on the socket |
| 05:59.32 | phish3 | yes, that's the kind of thing I thought on android |
| 05:59.39 | phish3 | instead they hung around :forever: |
| 05:59.49 | luke-jr | well Android isn't Linux |
| 05:59.53 | luke-jr | it's quite a different beast |
| 05:59.56 | phish3 | well, it is and isn't :P |
| 06:00.20 | luke-jr | kernel fork aside, Android apps have numeroous layers of abstraction in between |
| 06:00.35 | luke-jr | it could be running on HURD and nobody would notice |
| 06:00.40 | phish3 | rofl |
| 06:01.21 | phish3 | tbh the linuxness of maemo is a great selling point for the people I'm discussing this app with |
| 06:01.39 | phish3 | specially wanting to leverage qt app on the desktop being reused on the mobile app |
| 06:01.55 | phish3 | just had to make sure the socket stuff would work better |
| 06:02.14 | phish3 | *than on android, which it seems it does |
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| 06:03.03 | phish3 | btw any updates on n900 successor? |
| 06:03.08 | ieatlint | qt compatibility between a desktop linux system and maemo should be good |
| 06:03.20 | ieatlint | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo-4.6/platform-notes-maemo5.html details the differences |
| 06:03.23 | phish3 | that thing is taking its time coming out and its lack of some power disqualifies it from some :ahem: military applications |
| 06:04.16 | ieatlint | worth reading, as there are changes to qt itself beyond the addition of the QMaemo5* classes |
| 06:04.38 | Jucato | ieatlint: +1. I just have one issue: a phonon bug which makes Qt apps not respect the system volume :( |
| 06:04.39 | phish3 | oh, interesting |
| 06:05.06 | phish3 | hnn, luckily I'm not looking to use sound just yet |
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| 06:05.34 | ieatlint | qsound may not work, but the qaudio* classes do |
| 06:05.51 | phish3 | out of context that's pretty odd |
| 06:06.11 | ieatlint | i'd agree :P |
| 06:06.25 | ieatlint | maemo wants you to use gstreamer to play media... |
| 06:07.00 | Jucato | directly in Qt apps using the gstreamer API? |
| 06:07.01 | phish3 | directly huh |
| 06:07.08 | Jucato | heh same question :) |
| 06:07.16 | ieatlint | i didn't say that :P |
| 06:07.31 | ieatlint | as to how you accomplish it... |
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| 06:09.03 | ieatlint | also worth noting that if you stick to qt, an app can be written to work on a desktop, in maemo, in meego and in symbian |
| 06:09.15 | ieatlint | not sure i'm the biggest fan of qt or c++ in general, but that is nice |
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| 06:09.28 | Jucato | anyway, the bug was reported and confirmed by other people (but officially still tagged as unconfirmed). sound works anyway. it just doesn't respect system volume (if you set system volume to low, the Qt app will still play full blast) |
| 06:10.00 | Jucato | ieatlint: well, that's the theory :) |
| 06:10.21 | ieatlint | yeah, a theory that so far has proven only about 90% true |
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| 06:11.06 | Jucato | you'd still have to be mindful of the UI of course (form factor and such) |
| 06:11.41 | phish3 | even so having c++ and alot of the qt util classes to use is great |
| 06:11.54 | phish3 | try reimplementing all your c++ in java for android :/ |
| 06:12.11 | Jucato | nods |
| 06:12.28 | ieatlint | i've happily avoided java thus far... |
| 06:13.08 | Jucato | too ... sometimes just because I'm afraid I might like it :D |
| 06:13.31 | phish3 | so yea though, has there been any news in the last 3 months for n900 successor? |
| 06:13.48 | Stskeeps | phish3: talk.maemo.org is probably better to search |
| 06:13.58 | phish3 | checks it out |
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| 06:14.49 | Jucato | how about any definitive news on what Maemo 6 will really be? I've been out of the loop for a while so the last thing I heard was that it would be a something ("product"?) of MeeGo. |
| 06:15.02 | phish3 | oh yea so if I just bought a n900.. er should I just buy a normal model for development right? |
| 06:15.31 | Jucato | (ironically, again I am getting a Nokia device after it has been "deprecated" ... just like my N810 :) |
| 06:15.43 | ieatlint | Jucato: there is no maemo 6, it will be meego |
| 06:15.45 | phish3 | and will it come out of the box with maemo 5 and qt libs are available for that without much mucking around, right? |
| 06:15.48 | Jucato | phish3: I don't think there are any abnormal models :) |
| 06:15.50 | ieatlint | phish3: there is no dev model per se |
| 06:16.03 | phish3 | apt-get away or so? |
| 06:16.21 | Jucato | phish3: Qt will be installed by default when you upgrade the firmware to PR 1.2 (latest update) |
| 06:16.22 | ieatlint | an n900 running the current firmware has the qt 4.6.2 libs |
| 06:16.51 | phish3 | upgrades automatic or do I have to download stuff to flash and run a special bootloader or something? |
| 06:17.15 | Jucato | I believe it's automatic OTA |
| 06:17.36 | phish3 | no root-preventing fiacos? |
| 06:17.49 | ieatlint | not sure about OTA... i used the nokia software update utility, which was just a windows app that is designed for idiots to run |
| 06:18.20 | phish3 | that's good, I wasn't looking to foruming around for a day like I often do for android |
| 06:18.33 | ieatlint | getting root on the device doesn't require a hack |
| 06:18.40 | ieatlint | (which is also something to note security-wise) |
| 06:19.20 | phish3 | that's mostly good - I don't want the system fighting me if I have to do something more custom than normal |
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| 06:22.02 | frals | software updates are OTA but can be flashed as well if that floats your boat ;) |
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| 06:36.16 | MiXu- | Is there some way to bypass apt-get over https certificate errors? |
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| 07:08.12 | kke | The following NEW packages will be installed: |
| 07:08.13 | kke | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:08.25 | kke | trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/libSDL_ttf-2.0.so.0.6.3', which is also in package libsdl-ttf2.0-0 |
| 07:08.29 | kke | hmph |
| 07:08.35 | *** join/#maemo tbf (~mathias@85.183.48.167) |
| 07:09.22 | kke | btw how do i know which PR i have? |
| 07:10.17 | mece | kke, menu -> settings -> about product |
| 07:10.33 | mece | Version: 10.2010.19-something is pr1.2 |
| 07:11.53 | dr34m | anybody ever send a broken nokia back? was wondering about avg time it takes to get it back... waiting 3 weeks now |
| 07:12.18 | dr34m | n900 that is |
| 07:12.19 | kke | mece: ok cool so i got 1.2 |
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| 07:12.50 | mece | dr34m, I got mine back in 3 hours. I didn't sen it though. Took it directly to the service people. |
| 07:12.57 | hatake_kakashi | dr34m, not I but have they given you any form of contact? |
| 07:13.12 | kke | dr34m: my e71 was in for over two months and didn't work even then.. (battery still goes out in about 10 minutes) |
| 07:13.43 | dr34m | brrr i brought it back where i bought it and they send to nokia .nl |
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| 07:14.33 | dr34m | kke over 2 months :s |
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| 07:42.15 | mece | ~seen qole |
| 07:42.17 | infobot | qole <~qole@Maemo/community/council/qole> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 151d 15h 5m 47s ago, saying: 'Stskeeps, oh that's some great news!'. |
| 07:42.31 | mece | 151 days... I guess he'll be back any day now.. |
| 07:43.33 | pronto | o= |
| 07:44.05 | mece | :) |
| 07:44.10 | MohammadAG51 | ~seen Jebba |
| 07:44.11 | infobot | jebba <~jebba@8.20.201.9> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 28d 6h 21m 32s ago, saying: 'Well, you better wear a helmet around here....'. |
| 07:44.55 | mece | MohammadAG51, I hope qole gets the meego chroot working. Would be nice to fiddle with it a little without having to reboot or anything.. :) |
| 07:45.03 | Stskeeps | we already have a meego chroot though |
| 07:45.12 | *** join/#maemo [DarkGUNMAN] (~user@212.183.140.53) |
| 07:45.12 | mece | Stskeeps: we do? |
| 07:45.23 | mece | Stskeeps: I haven't been paying attention |
| 07:45.23 | Stskeeps | sec |
| 07:45.29 | mece | waits |
| 07:45.35 | Stskeeps | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/chroot |
| 07:45.55 | MohammadAG51 | swap images and boot that thing |
| 07:46.27 | MiXu- | dr34m: It's summer so the queues are quite long. |
| 07:46.48 | MiXu- | My gf took her phone to service and was told to expect it back in about a month |
| 07:46.52 | mece | MohammadAG51, well that's what I didn't want to do. |
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| 07:48.16 | mece | I don't feel up to the task of actually installing that chroot. I'll wait for something easy. I think qole is doing just that. |
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| 07:59.44 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 08:00.01 | Jaffa | Stskeeps: What's usable in the chroot? |
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| 08:00.24 | Stskeeps | Jaffa: not sure, i haven't been dealing with it |
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| 08:20.27 | achipa | Stskeeps: is it time for an easy-meego, perhaps ? |
| 08:20.43 | Stskeeps | achipa: easy-meego is a bit of a problem of the extensive gl usage |
| 08:20.57 | achipa | Stskeeps: I see... |
| 08:21.36 | mece | Stskeeps, you can't get to the gpu from chroot or what? (I really don't know how these things work) |
| 08:21.47 | mece | ah the drivers.. |
| 08:21.51 | mece | or? |
| 08:21.59 | Stskeeps | mm |
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| 08:33.27 | jophish | hmm, If I mash the buttons on my n900 at any time, even during the boot. It turns off |
| 08:33.43 | Stskeeps | usually not a good sign |
| 08:33.50 | jophish | brand new too |
| 08:33.59 | jophish | I shall investigate further |
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| 08:35.06 | lcuk | jophish, some would say "don't mash the keys" but make a video if you found a new effect |
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| 08:36.09 | frals | :D |
| 08:36.14 | jophish | I might be hallucinating though |
| 08:36.26 | jophish | Just got in from a flight from NJ to the UK |
| 08:36.53 | TermanaN900 | he did the mash, he did the n900 buuuton mash |
| 08:37.25 | mece | jophish, well I can't imagine why you would want to mash the keys, but it still shouldn't reboot from that.. |
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| 08:41.36 | MohammadAG51 | mashes keys |
| 08:42.01 | crashanddie | mashes MohammadAG51 |
| 08:42.10 | MohammadAG51 | crashanddie, gtfo |
| 08:42.18 | crashanddie | :( |
| 08:42.18 | MohammadAG51 | :p |
| 08:42.21 | crashanddie | But I'm at work, I can't go out |
| 08:42.35 | DuckBoot | makes mashed potatoes |
| 08:42.39 | MohammadAG51 | work != IRC |
| 08:42.40 | TermanaN900 | when he says mash, does he mean with his fingers or with his mouth? |
| 08:42.51 | crashanddie | TermanaN900: with a spork? |
| 08:42.52 | lcuk | or with a potato masher |
| 08:43.01 | lcuk | Foon |
| 08:43.07 | TermanaN900 | if hes mashing it with his mouth, that would make it reboot |
| 08:43.38 | MohammadAG51 | chroots into TermanaN900 and executes rm -rf /* then reboots |
| 08:43.38 | TermanaN900 | water damage |
| 08:43.49 | frals | trouts MohammadAG51, irc == work |
| 08:44.00 | Knirch | agreed, irc == work |
| 08:44.02 | MohammadAG51 | ~frals |
| 08:44.03 | infobot | [frals] a large smelly trout, or the developer of fMMS |
| 08:44.18 | mece | hehehe |
| 08:44.26 | TermanaN900 | MohammadAG51, so frals hit you with himself? |
| 08:44.39 | mece | have you guys noticed that the N900 has an incredible microphone? |
| 08:44.56 | MohammadAG51 | yes |
| 08:44.58 | marmoute | and pitiful speaker |
| 08:45.02 | kerio | microphone? |
| 08:45.05 | mece | The best I've ever seen on a phone. |
| 08:45.06 | kerio | :o |
| 08:45.06 | mece | yep |
| 08:45.13 | MohammadAG51 | kerio, that hole on the bottom of the device |
| 08:45.18 | TermanaN900 | kerio didnt even know it had one |
| 08:45.20 | kerio | ooh, yeah, that phone thingy |
| 08:45.20 | lcuk | yes mece, marmoute no |
| 08:45.22 | MohammadAG51 | you know, the one you use to talk on calls |
| 08:45.22 | kerio | never used it |
| 08:45.23 | crashanddie | mece: well, I've heard the quality of the microphone more than I've seen it |
| 08:45.34 | mece | crashanddie, teehee |
| 08:45.39 | TermanaN900 | :P |
| 08:45.49 | *** join/#maemo frade (~ivan@esprx02x.nokia.com) |
| 08:45.50 | mece | kerio, LOL |
| 08:46.12 | mece | The funny thing is that it's much better than my ears when sound is loud. |
| 08:47.01 | TermanaN900 | mece, i would assume sound quality of the speaker is limited to what your ear sound quality was |
| 08:47.05 | MohammadAG51 | cloaks frals w/ Maemo/community/trouter/frals |
| 08:47.23 | TermanaN900 | but obviously your listening to it another way than your ears to get better quality |
| 08:47.40 | TermanaN900 | buttplugs? |
| 08:47.43 | TermanaN900 | :P |
| 08:47.46 | mece | TermanaN900, well I meant that if the sound is so loud that my ears can't hear it properly, ie it cracks, the N900 can still record it perfectly clear. |
| 08:48.49 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~user@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 08:49.56 | BCMM | does the n900 screen tend to scratch in normal use? |
| 08:50.08 | mece | BCMM, it does in my normal use. |
| 08:50.20 | lcuk | BCMM, not really, but its a bit troublesome with my diamond tipped stylus I agree |
| 08:50.26 | mece | BCMM: I've got small kids, so I get dirt everywhere. |
| 08:50.32 | koala_man | mine hasn't scratched yet |
| 08:50.53 | lcuk | tracy keeps her N900 in her handbag and the kids play with it |
| 08:50.57 | BCMM | i've used a screen protector so far, whish is now extensively scratched by the stylus, and i'm wondering whether to replace it |
| 08:51.04 | lcuk | it does have some minor scratches, but nothing like the monster on my n810 |
| 08:51.13 | crashanddie | lcuk: the kids are in her handbag too> |
| 08:51.14 | crashanddie | ? |
| 08:51.27 | frals | crashanddie: where else would you put them when you go out? |
| 08:51.28 | mece | I have one proper scratch and a ton of superficial ones that don't really matter. |
| 08:51.41 | lcuk | no, but explaining keeping something in a hangbag with all assortment of things is not normally the most healthy of places |
| 08:51.46 | BCMM | anyone know of an n900 case that it can be charged in? |
| 08:52.18 | BCMM | the biggest risk is probably when it's kicking around my desk, plugged into the pc |
| 08:52.31 | *** join/#maemo TermN900 (~user@123-3-172-233.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 08:52.37 | BCMM | the rest of the time it can be in the case or alone in a pocket |
| 08:53.08 | lcuk | BCMM, tracy has tried 2 covers for hers |
| 08:53.13 | lcuk | both allowed charging |
| 08:53.38 | lcuk | she is geting one of those pretty covered cases soon (stick on plastic) so getting best of both |
| 08:54.00 | *** join/#maemo ml-mobile (~wat@bm203-180-241-140.bmobile.ne.jp) |
| 08:54.53 | mece | BCMM: there's a pretty trick leather case fron nokia that looks cool but is slightly bulky. My boss has that one on his. |
| 08:55.11 | BCMM | i could get a "sock", actually |
| 08:55.27 | BCMM | mece: i have a leather case from nokia, came free |
| 08:55.33 | BCMM | covers the ports |
| 08:55.35 | X-Fade | I use the 770 pouch thingie :) |
| 08:55.48 | BCMM | i kinda want that, but with charging... |
| 08:55.53 | lcuk | heh X-Fade i have a bigger Nokia baggie |
| 08:56.00 | lcuk | with drawstrings too! |
| 08:56.02 | *** join/#maemo Yoann512 (~yoann512@nyx.sheraf.net) |
| 08:56.11 | mece | BCMM: this one I meant: http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/carrying-and-styling/carrying-cases/nokia-carrying-case-cp-408 |
| 08:57.45 | X-Fade | ~seen javispedro |
| 08:57.47 | infobot | javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 74d 7h 58m 32s ago, saying: 'oh.. aisleriot solitaire with clutter/3D vista-like animations! port port port !'. |
| 08:57.47 | BCMM | also, i'm veggie and kinda don't wanna acquire leather things on purpose |
| 08:57.51 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FredrIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 08:58.00 | mece | I got a screenprotector after I started noticing scratches, so I don't have to be so careful, and that's enough for me. The phone is very sturdy as long as you have the screen towards yourself when in a pocket. |
| 08:58.00 | X-Fade | Hmmm I wonder where he went. |
| 08:58.29 | lcuk | X-Fade, gsoc meego |
| 08:58.36 | *** join/#maemo bouteilledelait (~bouteille@nyx.sheraf.net) |
| 08:58.37 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer51: did you get my email from yesterday? |
| 08:58.45 | BCMM | i thought i had minor scratches, but i can't find them now |
| 08:58.45 | mece | BCMM: Dunno if it's real leather. |
| 08:59.02 | Stskeeps | X-Fade: doing some really cool stuff with meegotouch virtual keyboard and gtk |
| 08:59.03 | TermanaN900 | I put a screen protector on my n900 after what happened with my n810 |
| 08:59.10 | mece | BCMM: you need sunshine to see them properly. The sun comes out and suddenly it's all scratched |
| 08:59.23 | frals | bah, anyone else having trouble getting to http://doc.trolltech.com ? |
| 08:59.40 | BCMM | sometimes the stylus will draw a line through the finger-grease that looks just like a scratch |
| 08:59.41 | mece | Stskeeps: so meego has full gtk? |
| 08:59.53 | Stskeeps | mece: i'd say 'real gtk' |
| 08:59.53 | mece | frals, took about .1 of a second to load that page, so no. |
| 08:59.55 | TermanaN900 | the stylus has scratched my n810 screen so badly that when trying to use the stylus on it, it makes a bad blackboard scratchy sound |
| 09:00.05 | mece | Stskeeps: as opposed to hildon? |
| 09:00.08 | Stskeeps | mece: bingo |
| 09:00.08 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 09:00.09 | frals | mece: cheers |
| 09:00.23 | Stskeeps | mece: i did a proof of concept libhildon for 'real gtk' |
| 09:00.28 | Stskeeps | noone has really followed up on it |
| 09:00.34 | mece | Stskeeps: well, the n900 can use real gtk can it not? |
| 09:00.36 | BCMM | mece: heh, i'm not one of the crazies who think fake leather just encourages real leather |
| 09:00.40 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: Yeah, saw that. I wonder why he isn't here though ;) |
| 09:00.59 | mece | BCMM: that's nice :) |
| 09:01.20 | BCMM | leather is a big selling point, so if it doesn't say so, it isn't |
| 09:02.54 | BCMM | mece: how does that thing work? plastic back clips on, whole for cam? |
| 09:03.09 | TermanaN900 | i had a red plastic case for mine. took it off because it made the device feel unnatural |
| 09:03.56 | BCMM | yeah, i was mostly looking for the sort of small case that you take it right out of to use |
| 09:04.07 | BCMM | just to keep it safe when charging |
| 09:04.59 | mece | BCMM, ok. no that case has a hole for the camera and for every plug and whatnot. It's very good that way, but it's not something you take it out of easily. |
| 09:05.24 | mece | it has a smooth fabric on the inside of the "lid" very soft and nice. |
| 09:05.57 | lcuk | Stskeeps, links to the gtk experiment please |
| 09:07.06 | Stskeeps | lcuk: planet.maemo.org |
| 09:07.15 | Stskeeps | or which one? |
| 09:07.40 | lcuk | <Stskeeps> mece: i did a proof of concept libhildon for 'real gtk' |
| 09:07.40 | lcuk | <Stskeeps> noone has really followed up on it |
| 09:08.13 | Stskeeps | http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-June/003201.html |
| 09:08.19 | Stskeeps | as well as on gnome-mobile |
| 09:09.07 | lcuk | did you perhaps ping claudio about it after you did it? |
| 09:10.43 | wazd | Stskeeps: o/ |
| 09:10.49 | wazd | hello all :) |
| 09:10.54 | Stskeeps | lo wazd, how's tricks? suffocating? |
| 09:11.49 | wazd | Stskeeps: Well, if I'll open the window - I'll die, if I'll close the window - I'll die :D |
| 09:11.58 | wazd | Stskeeps: that's how Moscow looks now :) |
| 09:13.50 | X-Fade | wazd: Awesome footage though. Post apocalypse like ;) |
| 09:14.19 | wazd | X-Fade: thanks, that's around my countryhouse, not far from Moscow itself :) |
| 09:14.23 | X-Fade | But I can imagine it is not fun to be there right now. |
| 09:14.52 | wazd | X-Fade: looks like some giant zombie movie stage :D |
| 09:15.13 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~bear@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 09:15.13 | X-Fade | Hehe |
| 09:15.23 | *** join/#maemo jayne (maddhatt@freenode/staff/jayne) |
| 09:15.27 | wazd | X-Fade: well, actually yes, I'm laughing more because I'm tired of all that stuff :) |
| 09:16.10 | wazd | X-Fade: Have to keep my windows shut - about 40 degrees in the room now :( |
| 09:16.20 | mece | wazd, where are the photos? |
| 09:16.33 | X-Fade | wazd: I can imagine that that is quite horrible yes. |
| 09:16.46 | mece | wazd, nasty stuf :/ |
| 09:17.04 | wazd | mece: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=779527&postcount=538 |
| 09:17.12 | Brik | 28 |
| 09:17.40 | achipa | X-Fade: hi there, is there any way I can get a simple way of acquiring the vote/comment URL for the interface ? |
| 09:18.04 | achipa | X-Fade: I would need it for KISStester, it's the only big thing missing... |
| 09:18.08 | lcuk | wazd, whats the smoke from? |
| 09:18.09 | X-Fade | achipa: the rest api? |
| 09:18.27 | achipa | X-Fade: so you CAN vote via rest ? |
| 09:18.29 | mece | hee, important research completed! http://www.cube20.org/ |
| 09:18.33 | wazd | lcuk: burning forests around the country |
| 09:18.45 | lcuk | o_O :( |
| 09:18.47 | X-Fade | achipa: No, only comment itself. |
| 09:18.54 | Jucato | hi, is there a way to automatically update the applications menu when I install my (Qt) package? it's installed in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/<size>, but the icon only displays properly in the menu after a restart of the device (the XB-Maemo-Icon-26 part works perfectly though) |
| 09:19.29 | X-Fade | achipa: But for comment listing see: http://maemo.org/packages/api/v1/comments/data/1/450c69a4a68811de965317405429a5f7a5f7/ |
| 09:20.12 | Jucato | or should the proper path be /usr/share/icons/hicolor/<size>/hildon/ ? |
| 09:20.20 | mece | hehe "Mordors black mist has also reached Helsinki, thanks." |
| 09:20.22 | wazd | this is even more sad photo - http://s48.radikal.ru/i121/1008/87/89244880cb3c.jpg |
| 09:20.37 | achipa | and how do I get the "450c69a4a68811de965317405429a5f7a5f7" part from the package name ? |
| 09:20.45 | achipa | X-Fade: ^^ |
| 09:21.02 | X-Fade | achipa: That is the guid listed in the package info in the rest api. |
| 09:22.02 | *** join/#maemo Flyser_ (~quassel@p4FDE7CD0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:23.13 | *** join/#maemo andrenarchy (~andrenarc@stifel.math.tu-berlin.de) |
| 09:24.45 | wazd | and this is moscow right now http://i070.radikal.ru/1008/dd/ef2cfb5cd10c.jpg |
| 09:24.58 | achipa | X-Fade: I'm still bonked in the head, do you have like... docs for that api ? I know just the call for search and now the comments |
| 09:25.33 | X-Fade | achipa: the search gives you <id> |
| 09:26.08 | *** join/#maemo Cervajz (~Cervajz@opensuse/member/Cervajz) |
| 09:26.12 | MohammadAG51 | Shapeshifter, why didn't you ask X-Fade to take down maemoreactor? |
| 09:26.30 | crashanddie | X-Fade: d'you get my email? |
| 09:26.32 | X-Fade | achipa: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/open-collaboration-services <- OCS api |
| 09:26.48 | X-Fade | crashanddie: Yes, but haven't gotten to it yet. |
| 09:26.57 | achipa | X-Fade: is going through search foolproof wrt to different versions in the repo ? |
| 09:27.18 | crashanddie | X-Fade: yeah take your time, I'd like to get your thoughts and GAN900's before doing anything |
| 09:27.56 | X-Fade | achipa: It should only list most recent versions. If not ping me ;) |
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| 09:34.59 | achipa | X-Fade: sooo... can you tell me what I'm doing wrong: http://maemo.org/packages/api/v1/content/data/?parent=fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel&search=fheroes2 |
| 09:35.34 | achipa | and I get the fheroes2-demodata package (even though there is one actually named fheroes2) |
| 09:36.30 | X-Fade | achipa: Hmmm I do see it here: http://maemo.org/packages/api/v1/content/data/?parent=fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel&search=heroes |
| 09:36.52 | X-Fade | achipa: Let me look at the code. |
| 09:38.24 | X-Fade | achipa: Hmm it searches in title, instead of name ;) |
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| 09:38.50 | achipa | X-Fade: heh, no wonder the results looked kooky |
| 09:38.59 | X-Fade | achipa: Let me fix that now. |
| 09:39.19 | achipa | X-Fade: (Y) |
| 09:39.48 | X-Fade | achipa: Try now. |
| 09:40.12 | achipa | The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading. |
| 09:40.14 | achipa | errhm |
| 09:40.20 | X-Fade | achipa: flushing cache ;) |
| 09:40.41 | achipa | okay now... |
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| 09:47.57 | X-Fade | achipa: I think I can get a thumbs api implemented today problably. |
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| 09:49.27 | achipa | X-Fade: that would be cool |
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| 09:50.48 | achipa | X-Fade: (as basically that is now only missing piece in KISStester) |
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| 09:52.23 | X-Fade | achipa: I'll probably use this api: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/open-collaboration-services#vote |
| 09:52.32 | Jaffa | achipa: I'm thinking of looking at doing some automated analysis on the checkbox screen, e.g. check /var/lib/dpkg/info/$PACKAGE.list for any /opt entries (or paths handled by python-optify) and showing the bug tracker URL. |
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| 09:53.22 | achipa | Jaffa: excellent - though note that optify is tricky business - it really should be done on the server |
| 09:53.53 | achipa | Jaffa: as it's not really an optification bug if someone messed with one's own paths |
| 09:54.07 | Jaffa | achipa: Perhaps; I don't think KISStester should do any auto-checking, but it can at least do the same heuristic check |
| 09:54.18 | Jaffa | achipa: ...that I'd do when testing a package. |
| 09:54.43 | Jaffa | achipa: i.e. it puts some stuff in /opt, or it's contained within the bind-mounted Python dirs. |
| 09:55.27 | achipa | Jaffa: yeah |
| 09:55.46 | achipa | Jaffa: though I'd probably suggest using something like os.path.realpath to work around symlinks |
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| 09:56.51 | Jaffa | achipa: I'll have a look tonight |
| 09:57.17 | achipa | Jaffa: licensing is a tough thing to check, tho, as appmanager has no concept of it, and docpurge happily kills anything the maintainer might have put in |
| 09:58.05 | achipa | in any case, all help welcome |
| 09:58.50 | achipa | I'll make it packageable/buildable tonight, so as soon as we have the REST stuff in, ship it ! |
| 10:00.00 | achipa | Jaffa, X-Fade: just wondering, should maybe the first versions have some sort of safety switch ? so that people unfamiliar with what this is about don't get trigger happy while we're only testing it ? |
| 10:00.35 | achipa | (I already added an are you sure for the thumb to avoid oops-es, but was thinking about something more proactive...) |
| 10:01.31 | X-Fade | achipa: Add a confirm dialog? |
| 10:01.36 | X-Fade | achipa: Or something like that? |
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| 10:03.19 | achipa | X-Fade: yes, you have an areyousure on thumbing, but saying if maybe there should be something else to enable write access (talking about the testing phase - it would not be needed once it's stable enough to go to testing and extras) |
| 10:04.19 | achipa | like 'create a file named rwtesting in MyDocs' or whatever |
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| 10:04.58 | X-Fade | achipa: Maybe don't enable direct voting right away? |
| 10:05.28 | achipa | X-Fade: well we DO need to put it out to people to be able to test if it works :) |
| 10:05.55 | X-Fade | achipa: Sure, but maybe not while testing the tester ;) |
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| 11:10.11 | MohammadAG | wonders why the N900 accepts a BT connection before it asks where to save the file |
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| 11:19.45 | xkr47-DI | hi |
| 11:20.38 | xkr47-DI | I'm trying to sync the calendar with exchange using the built-in exchange sync |
| 11:21.01 | xkr47-DI | after a bunch of minutes of "first time sync" it fails and says there was an error communicating |
| 11:21.27 | xkr47-DI | based on tcp dumps I can see that the phone spontaneously closes the connection 30 seconds after last network activity |
| 11:21.52 | xkr47-DI | so I'm guessing there's a timeout that causes it to fail |
| 11:22.19 | xkr47-DI | I guess our exchange server may just be really slow (it's located in another office overseas) |
| 11:22.20 | frals | there is a thread on talk.maemo.org and a wiki page on maemo.org which have instructions on how to get log files from activesync, might be a starting point :) |
| 11:22.42 | xkr47-DI | yeah I saw, I was just thinking if you know a setting for such a timeout |
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| 11:23.10 | xkr47-DI | a bunch of events flow through and the progress bar progresses about 40% |
| 11:23.26 | xkr47-DI | but then it always disconnects after 30 seconds of "nothing" |
| 11:23.37 | xkr47-DI | but alright, I'll try the syslog |
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| 11:35.47 | nas_ | xkr47-DI you do that over WIFI ? |
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| 11:45.50 | Jaffa | achipa: Drop the confirm dialogue and make it go off /home/user/.kisstester-rw file existing |
| 11:49.08 | frals | xkr47-DI: if you have that autodisconnect app it might be interfering if the connection goes down completetly after exactly 30sec |
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| 11:50.32 | achipa | Jaffa: ook |
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| 12:00.17 | xkr47-DI | nas_, usb networking |
| 12:00.33 | xkr47-DI | frals, no autodisconnect on usb |
| 12:01.50 | nas_ | ckk |
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| 12:07.03 | kerio | hey, new mobile maps version |
| 12:07.18 | kerio | does someone use it? is it good enough as a satnav? |
| 12:07.59 | DuckBoot | kerio: Ovi Maps? |
| 12:08.07 | *** join/#maemo briglia (~briglia@189.2.128.130) |
| 12:08.14 | kerio | no, the Sygic one |
| 12:08.18 | DuckBoot | Aaah |
| 12:10.00 | *** join/#maemo panaggio (~panaggio@200-158-190-75.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
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| 12:12.55 | rmrfchik | hmm, mBarCode don't read datamatrix. Only QR |
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| 12:32.12 | ZogG_N900 | hey |
| 12:32.17 | ZogG_N900 | sup? |
| 12:32.25 | kerio | ZogG_N900: depends on your orientation |
| 12:32.37 | ZogG_N900 | straight ) |
| 12:32.46 | kerio | then... the sky |
| 12:32.51 | kerio | or the roof |
| 12:32.58 | ZogG_N900 | is on fire |
| 12:33.14 | kerio | we don't need no water let the motherfucker burn |
| 12:33.14 | ZogG_N900 | damn hot here |
| 12:33.30 | mece | just got a pair of koss PortaPro's for his N900. yay! |
| 12:33.49 | ZogG_N900 | koss portawut? |
| 12:33.54 | ZogG_N900 | headphones? |
| 12:34.12 | SpeedEvil | I got a Kosh case for my n900. You can't even tell it's a phone now. |
| 12:34.59 | ZogG_N900 | meh. n900 is too big anyways on it's own. don't need case |
| 12:35.03 | mece | ZogG_N900: yes. |
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| 12:35.35 | ZogG_N900 | mece, control buttons/mic or just headphones? |
| 12:35.56 | ZogG_N900 | sorry, on phone, can't google it ( |
| 12:36.17 | mece | ZogG_N900: just headphones. Old school, and very good imo. |
| 12:37.20 | ZogG_N900 | but is n900 quality is that good, i mean audiocard |
| 12:37.22 | ZogG_N900 | or chip |
| 12:37.35 | ZogG_N900 | i like to listen to music on it |
| 12:37.46 | *** join/#maemo woodong50__ (~moodapo@110.12.164.165) |
| 12:37.46 | ZogG_N900 | but thinking of cowon d2+ |
| 12:38.10 | Shapeshifter | MohammadAG51: because there's a new package called "reaction face-off". The maemoreactor package is obsolete. (name change because of the trademark issue) |
| 12:38.14 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~pupnik@a91-155-177-214.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 12:38.29 | MohammadAG51 | Shapeshifter, I asked why you didn't ask him to take it down |
| 12:38.31 | pupnik | http://zx81.zx81.free.fr/serendipity/index.php?/archives/444-Pandora-FishFillets-Fish-Fillets-Next-Generation-for-pandora.html Looks like an improved fish fillets - game port candidate for maemo / n900 |
| 12:38.35 | MohammadAG51 | i know that you changed names |
| 12:38.37 | Shapeshifter | MohammadAG51: Oh, I DID ;) |
| 12:38.46 | Shapeshifter | I wrote him in here and I wrote him an email |
| 12:38.49 | Shapeshifter | no reaction |
| 12:38.54 | MohammadAG51 | hmm |
| 12:39.21 | MohammadAG51 | Shapeshifter, btw, prime numbers are incorrect, or i'm a retard |
| 12:39.25 | mece | pupnik: how did you're lady like the weather yesterday? |
| 12:39.37 | Shapeshifter | MohammadAG51: yes they are. |
| 12:39.48 | Shapeshifter | MohammadAG51: I fixed it but I need to update the package |
| 12:39.49 | pupnik | mece: said it was amazing! |
| 12:39.54 | *** part/#maemo type_t (~type_t@c-98-228-74-254.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 12:39.55 | MohammadAG51 | damn you Shapeshifter, you made me lose a game |
| 12:40.00 | Shapeshifter | D |
| 12:40.00 | mece | pupnik, no tent landed on her then? |
| 12:40.02 | Shapeshifter | D: |
| 12:40.04 | ZogG_N900 | lol |
| 12:40.28 | ZogG_N900 | MohammadAG51, did u get ur bluetooth headphones ? |
| 12:40.35 | pupnik | no injuries thankfully. she said people had to squat down to prevent being blown-over from the storm gusts |
| 12:40.44 | mece | pupnik, insane... |
| 12:40.49 | MohammadAG51 | ZogG_N900, nope |
| 12:41.05 | ZogG_N900 | MohammadAG51, mwahahahah |
| 12:41.12 | DuckBoot | Bluetooth Audio on the N900 is at best choppy. atleast when you're streaming music over wifi. |
| 12:41.21 | ieatlint | weather? what's that? |
| 12:41.41 | mece | pupnik, we had thunderstorms on saturday in stockholm too, but it rained the whole day instead :/ Stuff didn't break though. |
| 12:41.54 | ZogG_N900 | ieatlint, it's when it is really f* hot |
| 12:42.08 | Jucato | Weather: that thing people use to make up excuses for delaying or cancelling schedules |
| 12:42.11 | ieatlint | it's been 11-15c here since winter |
| 12:42.24 | ieatlint | when it occasionally dropped as low as maybe 5c... on rare occasion, that is |
| 12:42.51 | ZogG_N900 | like u |
| 12:43.00 | SpeedEvil | I was blown out of my shoes by a storm once. |
| 12:43.16 | DuckBoot | Weather: That thing that makes women more attractive, due to less fabric covering vital parts. |
| 12:43.16 | SpeedEvil | I never expected that when I went to see Gladiators being filmed. |
| 12:43.20 | ieatlint | we have fog though, i haven't seen the sun in maybe a week |
| 12:43.28 | ZogG_N900 | if u think it isn't enuf use farenhgeit |
| 12:44.53 | MohammadAG51 | heh, it's 38C here |
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| 12:46.17 | MohammadAG51 | lol DuckBoot |
| 12:46.34 | ieatlint | i was in vegas last weekend actually, 32c low and 45c high |
| 12:46.42 | ieatlint | i have some sympathy... dry heat though |
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| 12:47.16 | SpeedEvil | I'm in Scotland. High of 16C, low of 9 today. |
| 12:47.38 | ieatlint | scotland sounds nice then :P |
| 12:47.56 | DuckBoot | Approx 23c in Oslo today |
| 12:48.16 | MohammadAG51 | packs and moves to scotland |
| 12:48.19 | MohammadAG51 | i miss bad weather |
| 12:49.07 | ieatlint | i don't think it's exceeded 15c here in san francisco for at least a month |
| 12:49.11 | crashanddie | throws a bucket of water on MohammadAG51 |
| 12:49.16 | crashanddie | there's your bad weather |
| 12:49.17 | ieatlint | that is, on the western side of sf anyway |
| 12:49.31 | crashanddie | ieatlint: serious? Such bad weather? |
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| 12:49.50 | ieatlint | crashanddie: we don't have weather here |
| 12:49.58 | crashanddie | you just have fog? |
| 12:50.01 | DuckBoot | MohammadAG51: I was in the very northernmost part of Norway earlier this summer - ~24 m/s wind, 3c and rain - Is that bad enough for you? |
| 12:50.05 | ieatlint | exactly |
| 12:50.06 | ieatlint | just fog |
| 12:50.07 | crashanddie | I'm in southern france, high of 38 |
| 12:50.33 | ieatlint | summertime means 18c highs, wintertime means 15c highs .. it's a cold summer |
| 12:50.48 | ieatlint | coldest in 40 years |
| 12:50.52 | MohammadAG51 | DuckBoot, no |
| 12:50.56 | DuckBoot | ;-P |
| 12:51.05 | MohammadAG51 | i haven't seen any snow for about 3-4 years |
| 12:51.08 | ieatlint | the only way we know between summer and winter is rain.. it never rains in the summer |
| 12:51.14 | MohammadAG51 | well, since CoD4 came out |
| 12:51.44 | DuckBoot | MohammadAG51: I promise you shitloads of snow in the wintertime, and absolutely _no_ sun there for atleast a couple of months. |
| 12:51.55 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: is that because you never left the house ever since CoD4 came out? |
| 12:51.59 | ieatlint | MohammadAG51: where are you? |
| 12:52.18 | crashanddie | ieatlint: IRL |
| 12:52.52 | MohammadAG51 | crashanddie, LOL no |
| 12:53.04 | ieatlint | haha, yeah, i was about to ask wtf |
| 12:53.07 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (~thopiekar@p57A12AD0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:53.12 | ieatlint | how is it 38c in ireland and 16c in scotland |
| 12:53.33 | MohammadAG51 | ieatlint, ireland moves closer to africa |
| 12:53.38 | MohammadAG51 | moved* |
| 12:54.17 | ieatlint | i'm going to guess morocco then |
| 12:54.23 | crashanddie | what is the shorthand for your bloody country then? |
| 12:54.35 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: go outside and chant the hatikvah |
| 12:55.01 | SpeedEvil | 38C in ireland sounds unlikely. |
| 12:55.09 | crashanddie | then move to Haifa and get a job you bum |
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| 12:56.10 | crashanddie | ah, IL |
| 12:56.17 | crashanddie | ieatlint: he lives in IL |
| 12:56.31 | MohammadAG51 | not in IL atm though |
| 12:56.31 | ieatlint | ah |
| 12:56.38 | crashanddie | you fled? |
| 12:56.55 | MohammadAG51 | no, tactics, planning a war |
| 12:57.16 | Stskeeps | going to bomb apple? |
| 12:57.16 | SpeedEvil | IL is not ireland. The religious differences are slightly larger. |
| 12:57.16 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 12:57.28 | ieatlint | i can bomb apple much more easily |
| 12:57.37 | MohammadAG51 | Stskeeps, you could say that :p |
| 12:57.40 | crashanddie | ok, so the military excuse for fleeing: you executed a tactical withdrawal? |
| 12:58.08 | MohammadAG51 | kind of, we're targetting france atm |
| 12:58.29 | ieatlint | yeah, take care of france for us.. the rest of the western world will thank you |
| 12:59.07 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: can you wait 3 months? |
| 12:59.14 | MohammadAG51 | hmm |
| 12:59.22 | MohammadAG51 | maybe, if you give us 10k frogs legs |
| 12:59.36 | MohammadAG51 | they make better warheads |
| 13:00.04 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: after 3 months the probation period is over and I'm entitled to jobloss benefits in case of a war |
| 13:00.40 | MohammadAG51 | LOL |
| 13:00.45 | crashanddie | also, anyone who currently resides in a country where the education system isn't better than france's is not allowed to joke about invading it |
| 13:00.48 | MohammadAG51 | in that case, no |
| 13:00.51 | ieatlint | bah, france would probably just surrender anyway :P |
| 13:00.52 | crashanddie | err |
| 13:00.59 | crashanddie | healthcare instead of education |
| 13:01.20 | MohammadAG51 | healthcare in IL is almost on par with western countries crashanddie |
| 13:01.36 | crashanddie | for starters, to anyone who lives in the UK and US, France has a healthcare system, and it works :) So there :P |
| 13:01.55 | ieatlint | san francisco has a healthcare system, and it kinda works |
| 13:01.56 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 13:01.59 | Stskeeps | and it's not just a guillotine(sp) for every sick person? |
| 13:02.02 | ieatlint | better than the rest of the country, anyway |
| 13:02.07 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: then again, most western countries aren't on par with France's healthcare ;), so your point is mooot |
| 13:02.48 | MohammadAG51 | crashanddie, can't see hoe france's healthcare's better |
| 13:02.51 | MohammadAG51 | how* |
| 13:02.55 | *** join/#maemo srw (~swo@pD9E3CF61.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:02.57 | DuckBoot | Norway has a pretty good healthcare. |
| 13:04.00 | E0x | hello |
| 13:04.15 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: that's like saying that your car goes as fast as most WWI-era trains. |
| 13:04.15 | crashanddie | ieatlint: also, for the record, the Dutch surrendered before the French did. |
| 13:04.15 | crashanddie | read history books, don't watch TV. |
| 13:04.43 | ieatlint | yeah, well, they didn't have the maginot line to defend them |
| 13:04.53 | ieatlint | :P |
| 13:04.59 | pablo2 | In scratchbox , where I find libpthread.so.0?? Packages name !? |
| 13:05.01 | ieatlint | i'm still bitter about vietnam |
| 13:05.40 | *** part/#maemo mece (~mwikstro@mariehamn.abo.fi) |
| 13:05.40 | ieatlint | i mostly kid, my bias against france is based on personal experiences |
| 13:06.03 | MohammadAG51 | crashanddie, you're not french, why do you like france so much |
| 13:06.08 | ieatlint | people in paris are dicks, and i was stopped by customs while driving into france near lille |
| 13:06.24 | ieatlint | and well, it resulted in the guy sticking his hands in my pants without warning |
| 13:06.37 | MohammadAG51 | wtf |
| 13:06.43 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: I love the country, I just hate the French |
| 13:07.00 | ieatlint | yeah, i heard good things about the south, especially provence |
| 13:07.03 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@213.59.86.89) |
| 13:09.30 | *** join/#maemo villev (~quassel@esprx02x.nokia.com) |
| 13:10.49 | *** join/#maemo Tsarpf_ (~Tsarpf@dsl-kvlbrasgw2-fec7dc00-116.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 13:10.52 | E0x | sorry for the offtopic , but i take some code from the sleeper.py app , exactly the part that do the draw but when i run my program i get some error : http://pastebin.com/wLZjD8ur , this is the code is not finish and is very very dirty and don't do anything yet, just want try the draw first : http://pastebin.com/Xm7Ft8gW |
| 13:10.55 | alterego | Heh, you hate a whole nationality ... |
| 13:10.58 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: A few quotes from De Gaulle (a general who fled to Britain and then led France through the rebellion against the Nazis, ended up being the first president of the 5th Republic): "How can anyone govern a nation that has two hundred and forty-six different kinds of cheese?" "I have tried to lift France out of the mud. But she will return to her errors and vomitings. I cannot prevent the French from being French." and |
| 13:11.44 | alterego | E0x: None with a capital N not none. |
| 13:13.37 | E0x | hmm alterego what i dump ass i am |
| 13:14.12 | alterego | dumb with a b not a p :P |
| 13:14.14 | alterego | :D |
| 13:14.24 | E0x | hehe |
| 13:14.25 | E0x | thx |
| 13:16.55 | alterego | bbiab |
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| 13:18.05 | ieatlint | france... a country that strikes so often, it does it at the world cup |
| 13:18.45 | ieatlint | still, a country known for being arrogant dicks might be better than a country known for being ignorant bigots |
| 13:19.17 | *** join/#maemo muelli (~muelli@port-8605.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 13:19.25 | MohammadAG51 | since we're already off topic |
| 13:19.33 | MohammadAG51 | new topic: politics |
| 13:19.35 | MohammadAG51 | runs |
| 13:19.48 | ieatlint | so, nationalism socialism... |
| 13:19.54 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~wazd@188.123.241.73) |
| 13:20.10 | pupnik | pablo2: should be provided by libc |
| 13:20.31 | *** join/#maemo sheepbat (~lev3k@c-98-238-227-32.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 13:23.25 | RST38h | moos at wazd evilly |
| 13:23.33 | *** join/#maemo Termana (~bradley@123-3-157-27.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 13:23.47 | wazd | RST38h: hello :) Are you in Mordor or gone to the US? :) |
| 13:24.04 | RST38h | wazd: Still here, working |
| 13:24.12 | RST38h | wazd: Family left for .BY yesterday |
| 13:24.17 | *** join/#maemo chenca (~chenca@187.113.111.136) |
| 13:24.23 | wazd | RST38h: good :) |
| 13:24.52 | RST38h | wazd: obligatory pic: http://pit.dirty.ru/lepro/2/2010/08/04/32845-075656-f1fdab3dc282c86c4fbef1f141aacb65.jpg |
| 13:25.04 | wazd | RST38h: yeah-yeah :) |
| 13:25.24 | wazd | RST38h: in fact at my countryhouse it was even worse |
| 13:26.03 | wazd | RST38h: now it's much clearer brw :) |
| 13:26.32 | RST38h | wazd: Just wait until the evening... |
| 13:27.07 | wazd | RST38h: well, I'm trying to get as much quasi-fresh air into my room as possible right now :) |
| 13:27.20 | *** join/#maemo mgedmin (~mg@Maemo/community/contributor/mgedmin) |
| 13:27.23 | *** join/#maemo celesteh (~celesteh@sblug/member/celesteh) |
| 13:27.32 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 13:28.25 | RST38h | wazd: airplane O2 generator is the only answer... |
| 13:28.37 | wazd | RST38h: http://s09.radikal.ru/i182/1008/cc/3965820eabb0.jpg |
| 13:28.42 | *** join/#maemo Cy8aer (~Cy8aer@62.157.192.144) |
| 13:29.19 | RST38h | wazd: The Mist. |
| 13:30.03 | lcuk | RST38h, one of those thunderstorms near HEL should clear the air somewhat |
| 13:30.25 | RST38h | lcuk: had thunderstorms here for a month |
| 13:30.30 | RST38h | lcuk: they do nothing |
| 13:31.06 | lcuk | epe |
| 13:31.08 | lcuk | eep |
| 13:31.17 | RST38h | (which actually looks weird, as one would expect things to at least get more wet) |
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| 13:44.05 | DocScrutinizer | for all the "maemo is dead" trolls: >> This has been fixed in package kernel 2.6.28-20103003+0m5 which is part of the internal build version 2010.31-2<< From bug 10808 |
| 13:44.06 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10808 kernel oops on activating heartbeat trigger |
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| 13:49.35 | *** join/#maemo TomaszD (~tom@Maemo/community/contributor/TomaszD) |
| 13:51.34 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: yeah, I think the "maemo is dead" clan aren't really interested. |
| 13:52.23 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, giraffe stage 2 |
| 13:52.30 | DocScrutinizer | to 3 |
| 13:53.00 | *** join/#maemo etrunko (~edulima@201.53.197.138) |
| 13:53.35 | E0x | nice! my fisrt widget get draw ! |
| 13:53.38 | *** join/#maemo jpe (~jpe@94-224-243-109.access.telenet.be) |
| 13:53.41 | E0x | now let make it do something |
| 13:53.42 | E0x | :D |
| 13:53.47 | *** join/#maemo ag0ny (~sascha@khan.procar.de) |
| 13:53.48 | DocScrutinizer | I should make subtitles (translate to maemo trollish) for the giraffe video |
| 13:54.10 | *** join/#maemo fiferboy (~quassel@hq.clearcable.ca) |
| 13:54.10 | *** join/#maemo fiferboy (~quassel@Maemo/community/contributor/fiferboy) |
| 13:54.29 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, who cares if it's fixed internally. |
| 13:55.11 | GAN900 | If you'll recall there were at least two rounds of Diablo updates that never made it out of the pipeline. |
| 13:55.14 | DocScrutinizer | actually nobody. But quite evidently the assumption maemo development is abandoned is quite wrong |
| 13:55.45 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 13:57.28 | *** join/#maemo luizirber (~luizirber@187.39.126.64) |
| 13:58.47 | lcuk | 100% totally wrong |
| 13:59.03 | GAN900 | Hehe |
| 13:59.07 | GAN900 | Well, we'll see |
| 13:59.22 | GAN900 | I've been bitten by optimism too many times before. |
| 13:59.56 | Termana | So now you refrain from any at all |
| 13:59.58 | Termana | Just saying |
| 14:00.00 | Termana | :P |
| 14:00.01 | lcuk | jees GAN900 did anything break? |
| 14:00.54 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, have you seen how the live background support is coming on? |
| 14:01.18 | lcuk | vlad has managed to create the whole new control panel as well as a core set of cool new live items |
| 14:01.24 | lcuk | even a video one :D |
| 14:01.24 | DocScrutinizer | eeew, please don't |
| 14:01.27 | GAN900 | Termana, yep. |
| 14:01.27 | lcuk | tis uber cool |
| 14:01.30 | lcuk | :p |
| 14:01.45 | luke-jr | [08:55:11] <GAN900> If you'll recall there were at least two rounds of Diablo updates that never made it out of the pipeline. |
| 14:01.54 | luke-jr | GAN900: as in, stuff we still don't have? |
| 14:02.01 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: bat killer |
| 14:02.12 | GAN900 | Termana, call it burnout. Or perhaps burnout prevention. |
| 14:02.17 | lcuk | sure DocScrutinizer |
| 14:02.19 | GAN900 | luke-jr, yep |
| 14:02.23 | luke-jr | -.- |
| 14:02.28 | lcuk | but theres many people who leave devices on desks during daytime etc |
| 14:02.36 | lcuk | whilst hacking on main computer with device sat charging |
| 14:02.55 | Dassu | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=47371 can somebody explain me the benifits of this? :| |
| 14:02.58 | Dassu | Geez |
| 14:03.11 | GAN900 | luke-jr, the community SSU project is working on releasing at least some of them. |
| 14:03.14 | Dassu | "I'm using over 9000 apps so I need to have all shortcuts on my dekstopzzsa" |
| 14:03.25 | lcuk | Dassu, sure, some people are unhappy with only 4 |
| 14:03.39 | luke-jr | I think 5 would be nice |
| 14:03.42 | Dassu | I was unhappy with 4 but because it was way too may |
| 14:03.45 | Dassu | 2 is eough |
| 14:03.48 | lcuk | and its entirely feasible to have whole homescreen for contacts and another for shortcuts and another for xyz etc |
| 14:03.51 | luke-jr | I have 20 on my desktop |
| 14:03.59 | Dassu | I have like 5 |
| 14:04.00 | lcuk | "2 is enough...FOR YOU" |
| 14:04.09 | Termana | I just use 1 |
| 14:04.10 | Dassu | "FOR ME" |
| 14:04.15 | Dassu | Well, it is for everyone |
| 14:04.16 | Termana | and it has 2 rows of 4 icons |
| 14:04.25 | Dassu | people just fill their screes with shortcuts they dont eve use |
| 14:04.28 | Termana | and a bookmark on each side |
| 14:04.40 | lcuk | Dassu, and? |
| 14:04.41 | GAN900 | Sadly it's about two years too late for most people to care. |
| 14:04.44 | lcuk | they might have a use for them |
| 14:04.47 | lcuk | you dont - deal |
| 14:05.01 | Dassu | ... |
| 14:05.11 | Dassu | it is faster to search it from the menu then |
| 14:05.15 | Dassu | 2 clicks |
| 14:05.19 | lcuk | for you |
| 14:05.24 | Dassu | dsadsa |
| 14:05.25 | luke-jr | Dassu: desktop isn't for shortcuts, n00b |
| 14:05.25 | DocScrutinizer | never restrict users by introducing random arbitrary limits! If anybody wants 100, give her 100 |
| 14:05.37 | GAN900 | TEHO |
| 14:05.39 | Dassu | "Her" |
| 14:05.42 | Dassu | Oh it is women now |
| 14:05.45 | Dassu | NOw I c |
| 14:05.48 | *** join/#maemo habmala (~sebb@81-231-143-171-no122.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 14:05.48 | Dassu | NO help then |
| 14:06.08 | DocScrutinizer | ~attack Dassu |
| 14:06.09 | infobot | ACTION grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing Dassu |
| 14:06.10 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, don't use PC pronouns. |
| 14:07.10 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, or we'll have to ban you. |
| 14:07.11 | *** join/#maemo Flyser (~quassel@p578D1BAB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:07.15 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: I will stop that, just for they are NOT PC, at least the notion I use them :-) |
| 14:07.55 | DocScrutinizer | never restrict users by introducing random arbitrary limits! If anybody wants 100, give them 100 |
| 14:08.10 | luke-jr | 'them' is plural |
| 14:08.21 | GAN900 | luke-jr, STFU |
| 14:08.43 | GAN900 | "they" and "them" are acceptable for singular gender-neutral pronouns. |
| 14:09.47 | *** join/#maemo lizardo (~lizardo@189.2.128.130) |
| 14:09.47 | luke-jr | no |
| 14:10.00 | luke-jr | English has enough ambiguity without such abuse :P |
| 14:10.17 | luke-jr | 'em' is a perfectly good singular gender-neutral pronoun here |
| 14:10.20 | GAN900 | I think European speakers just like pissing off native speakers with PC pronouns. |
| 14:10.25 | DocScrutinizer | k, have fun. /me off for coffee (and popcorn?) |
| 14:10.45 | luke-jr | Europeans don't speak natively? |
| 14:10.48 | GAN900 | luke-jr, so you prefer he or she? |
| 14:10.53 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (~aloisio@187.113.111.136) |
| 14:10.58 | GAN900 | luke-jr, not English. |
| 14:11.01 | Lynoure | GAN900: can I use "she" if I ever write something relevant? :) |
| 14:11.08 | luke-jr | GAN900: I prefer e |
| 14:11.20 | luke-jr | or he |
| 14:11.23 | Lynoure | I prefer 'hän' but that's wrong language |
| 14:12.12 | GAN900 | Lynoure, is the person the pronoun is refering to actually a person, and female? :P |
| 14:12.44 | Lynoure | GAN900: possibly. If 'them' is ruled out, I think defaulting for one's own gender is pretty sane. |
| 14:12.55 | luke-jr | women/she/her are a subset of men/he/him after all |
| 14:13.34 | luke-jr | but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spivak_pronoun works if less ambiguous terms are required |
| 14:13.52 | DocScrutinizer | s/men/man(kind)/ |
| 14:13.53 | GAN900 | Lynoure, them is proper and acceptable |
| 14:14.05 | GAN900 | Despite luke-jr's grammar natzism. |
| 14:14.37 | GAN900 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun#Modern_English |
| 14:14.41 | DocScrutinizer | grammar tonalism? |
| 14:14.45 | Lynoure | I like how many RPG books use 'she' and 'he', one for the gamer, one for the gamemaster |
| 14:15.06 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: Spivak has widespread use |
| 14:15.07 | Lynoure | That actually squeezes some usefulness out of there being two different words. |
| 14:15.57 | DocScrutinizer | sounds like a Czech Military |
| 14:16.18 | DocScrutinizer | or something I don't wanna eat |
| 14:16.51 | lcuk | did this whole brainfart occur because someone used "her" ? hwy the big hangups? |
| 14:17.05 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 14:17.39 | lcuk | why ^ |
| 14:17.41 | Lynoure | lcuk: you don't want my speculation on that =) |
| 14:18.13 | lcuk | not really, i think DocScrutinizer's original point was much more worthwhile rather than bikeshedding about it ;) |
| 14:18.18 | DocScrutinizer | well, I said 'give her 100' imagine what had happend, had I said "give her 50" :-D |
| 14:18.29 | Lynoure | DocScrutinizer: hee. |
| 14:18.33 | DocScrutinizer | ~50$ |
| 14:18.50 | DocScrutinizer | infobot: WAKE UP! |
| 14:18.51 | infobot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on UP! and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 14:19.02 | *** join/#maemo TiagoTiago (~TiagoTiag@189-46-25-79.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 14:19.03 | DocScrutinizer | :-/ |
| 14:19.14 | luke-jr | lol |
| 14:19.19 | luke-jr | infobot: wake TiagoTiago |
| 14:19.19 | infobot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on TiagoTiago and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 14:19.32 | TiagoTiago | hi |
| 14:21.04 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, anyway, now you're more informed about a stupid issue than you were 5 minutes ago. |
| 14:22.04 | TiagoTiago | Can any of you help me with http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60019 please? |
| 14:22.26 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, my morning was so funny, even with tmo, I had no time yet for my coffee :-P |
| 14:23.23 | *** join/#maemo zs (~zs@188-223-195-142.zone14.bethere.co.uk) |
| 14:23.36 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FredrIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 14:24.06 | GAN900 | Coffee is bad for you. |
| 14:24.47 | DocScrutinizer | nah, TiagoTiago is bad for me |
| 14:24.55 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 14:25.01 | E0x | hmm |
| 14:25.07 | DocScrutinizer | commenting on threads without reading the original post |
| 14:25.15 | E0x | how i can change the current desktop |
| 14:25.16 | E0x | ? |
| 14:25.25 | E0x | i try changing the gconf key |
| 14:25.40 | E0x | but not work , i mean it get change at gconf but not visual |
| 14:26.11 | TiagoTiago | click on the backgorund then on the gear that appear and then on the gear on the top left corner to see the menu |
| 14:26.15 | E0x | i am trying do a widget that jump to N desktop when you preset the number of it |
| 14:26.22 | TiagoTiago | oh |
| 14:26.37 | TiagoTiago | not what i thought you were talking about |
| 14:26.38 | E0x | like a pager |
| 14:27.09 | E0x | def set_view_key(self, view): client = gconf.client_get_default() client.set_int('/apps/osso/hildon-desktop/views/current', view) |
| 14:27.24 | E0x | set_view_key(number) |
| 14:27.30 | E0x | do the change it gconf |
| 14:27.35 | E0x | but not get apply |
| 14:27.40 | E0x | in the desktop |
| 14:27.45 | *** join/#maemo azakai (~alon@99-113-35-11.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 14:29.22 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: though you're probably right, nevertheless I don't want to hear it. Your not my medical doctor :-) let's talk about OC instead :-P |
| 14:29.51 | *** join/#maemo mlfoster (~chatzilla@nat/intel/x-vjtzbflpyedysxuc) |
| 14:30.33 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, don't do that either! |
| 14:30.54 | DocScrutinizer | why? is adrenaline even worse than coffee? |
| 14:31.04 | GAN900 | wonders if last-gen Mac Pros will be cheap. |
| 14:31.21 | GAN900 | With longterm abuse, yes. :P |
| 14:31.43 | DocScrutinizer | heh, I'm not an adrenaline junky |
| 14:31.50 | TiagoTiago | Can any of you help me with http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60019 please? |
| 14:32.02 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 14:32.13 | DocScrutinizer | ~spell http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60019 |
| 14:33.07 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 14:33.35 | korhojoa | ~spell tornado |
| 14:33.37 | TiagoTiago | ~read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60019 |
| 14:33.41 | DocScrutinizer | just had a weird idea of povbot maybe could do tmo topic expansion the same way it does for tracker ticket numbers |
| 14:33.50 | TiagoTiago | balls |
| 14:34.10 | korhojoa | when people post thread urls, it replies with the thread title? |
| 14:34.16 | TiagoTiago | that would be usefull |
| 14:34.28 | korhojoa | does it post the title of websites otherwise? |
| 14:34.33 | korhojoa | because that's pretty darn handy |
| 14:34.44 | TiagoTiago | better if it also quoted the firsr post |
| 14:34.56 | DocScrutinizer | bug 10808 |
| 14:34.56 | korhojoa | i know a few irc channels that have bots that do that, it really makes it easier to know what you're clicking on |
| 14:34.57 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10808 kernel oops on activating heartbeat trigger |
| 14:35.03 | korhojoa | that is handy |
| 14:35.37 | TiagoTiago | ~google http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60019 |
| 14:35.45 | TiagoTiago | balls |
| 14:36.01 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: sure not better, as bot will get banned for spamming then |
| 14:36.50 | TiagoTiago | the thread is about the issue i'm having with the browsr refreshing cdrtain pages over and over again |
| 14:37.19 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: you're googling for a URL... :-S What's the expected result of ~google? another URL? |
| 14:37.34 | TiagoTiago | hm, i didn't thought about that, yeah, many threads got lenghty first posts |
| 14:38.12 | TiagoTiago | perhaps it would show the title of the page and an excerpt? |
| 14:38.27 | TiagoTiago | i mean, Google |
| 14:39.23 | DocScrutinizer | everything >5 *short* lines is considered flooding here |
| 14:39.33 | TiagoTiago | for the first result given the search terms, be it an url or kregu.ar keywords |
| 14:39.57 | *** join/#maemo ohwhyme (~ohwhyme@officebackup.dacharan.co.uk) |
| 14:40.20 | TiagoTiago | regular* |
| 14:40.47 | DocScrutinizer | me browses to kregu.ar, and drops a greeting not to Werner Almesberger in BUE while doing so |
| 14:40.55 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@83.149.8.189) |
| 14:41.02 | DocScrutinizer | note* |
| 14:41.35 | TiagoTiago | gah! lol i remembered thee naeme of the browser wrongg, completly wrong |
| 14:42.06 | TiagoTiago | lool, itms hard to type fast on the N900 without silly typos xP |
| 14:42.10 | *** join/#maemo johnsq (nobody@88.78.broadband14.iol.cz) |
| 14:42.16 | DocScrutinizer | registers kregu.ar doman |
| 14:42.19 | *** join/#maemo baraujo (~Bruno@189.2.128.130) |
| 14:42.23 | johnsq | Hi |
| 14:42.33 | johnsq | Hi |
| 14:42.40 | TiagoTiago | hihi |
| 14:43.02 | MohammadAG51 | TiagoTiago, i get 59 WPM adjusted (w/o typos) on the N900 |
| 14:43.04 | DocScrutinizer | hi hihi |
| 14:43.18 | MohammadAG51 | w/ typos i get 68 or so |
| 14:43.32 | DocScrutinizer | djjk dakjdah dakjhd sdkjhda skjh sök skjhs skhsh dkiorqh sdjh |
| 14:43.35 | DocScrutinizer | 156 |
| 14:43.56 | MohammadAG51 | sometimes, even ops spam and need a kick :p |
| 14:44.08 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 14:44.13 | TiagoTiago | hm, weird, i got the yellow notificarion but the msg is missing in the chat history :\ |
| 14:44.14 | *** kick/#maemo [DocScrutinizer!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!) |
| 14:44.18 | MohammadAG51 | ty |
| 14:44.46 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 14:44.51 | MohammadAG51 | wb |
| 14:44.56 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 14:45.04 | TiagoTiago | ah, nvm, it was just colored differemtly |
| 14:48.47 | DocScrutinizer | nah, now it gets silly on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60014&page=3 |
| 14:49.40 | DocScrutinizer | yellow notification?? |
| 14:50.51 | DocScrutinizer | are you guys all using pre-summit devices? the ones with "red and blue led swapped" bug? |
| 14:50.55 | TiagoTiago | sent the URL via skype to my desktop, can't browse talk.maemo threads on the device ebcause of the issue i'm having |
| 14:51.30 | TiagoTiago | nomis, i mean the yellow card in the dashboard |
| 14:51.36 | kerio | if i don't have a receipt, do i get warranty right now? |
| 14:51.48 | kerio | from nokia |
| 14:52.13 | DocScrutinizer | depends on the shop, I guess |
| 14:52.47 | DocScrutinizer | basically, as the device is not possible to be older than 2 years... |
| 14:52.56 | kerio | oh, then ok |
| 14:53.24 | kerio | yeah, the law says i have 2 years |
| 14:53.28 | frals | atleast in .se i dont know any shop who would take your device and send it off unless you have a receipt showing you bought it there, but dunno how nokia care handles it |
| 14:53.48 | DocScrutinizer | but then you might have to prove you bought it in a country where 2 years warranty apply at all |
| 14:54.36 | kerio | i think nokia knows |
| 14:55.00 | DocScrutinizer | frals: nope, it's supposed to be irrelevant in which shop you bought the device. Every Nokia care center shall accept return for repair |
| 14:55.01 | kerio | and yeah, it's only nokia for me - i bought it used |
| 14:55.29 | X-Fade | Hmm is warranty transferable? |
| 14:55.37 | DocScrutinizer | usually yes |
| 14:55.38 | frals | DocScrutinizer: alright, never had to use warranty for any of my nokia devices so... :D |
| 14:55.42 | kerio | huh? |
| 14:55.50 | kerio | it's by-device |
| 14:56.02 | X-Fade | Warranty is a contract between buyer and seller iirc. |
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| 14:56.34 | kerio | will i get a substitution for the device? |
| 14:56.36 | frals | X-Fade: afaik in sweden it depends, some allow it to pass to second buyer or such, but ianal so |
| 14:56.49 | DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: though you're basically right, the contract is transferrable, and usually not even bound to name of original customer |
| 14:57.08 | TiagoTiago | perhaps if you talk directly witth Nokia and do not mention where you got it? |
| 14:57.13 | X-Fade | I'd say, don't mention the bought used part ;) |
| 14:57.22 | kerio | that's what i'll do :D |
| 14:57.34 | kerio | it should be a eu device anyway |
| 14:58.01 | DocScrutinizer | say it's been a gift |
| 14:58.01 | kerio | the limits on the fmtx ui are 107.9/88.1 |
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| 14:58.32 | TiagoTiago | are there any variations in the hardware of the N900 across the world? |
| 14:58.46 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 14:58.51 | X-Fade | Yes |
| 14:58.59 | DocScrutinizer | ?? |
| 14:59.06 | X-Fade | Hw keyboard? |
| 14:59.11 | DocScrutinizer | arrrgh |
| 14:59.16 | frals | :D |
| 14:59.26 | kerio | oh yeah it's definetely an IT device |
| 14:59.31 | kerio | whew |
| 14:59.35 | TiagoTiago | oh, right, ok other than localized keys, any difference? |
| 14:59.40 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 14:59.43 | X-Fade | yes |
| 14:59.49 | kerio | lol |
| 14:59.50 | DocScrutinizer | charger that comes with it |
| 15:00.12 | DocScrutinizer | and sticker placed in battery bay |
| 15:00.19 | MohammadAG51 | and fmtx state |
| 15:00.28 | DocScrutinizer | that's not hw |
| 15:00.32 | kerio | can't you override that by sw? |
| 15:00.42 | kerio | is 87.5/108 the hw limit? |
| 15:00.42 | X-Fade | Hardware tends to change also a bit over time. |
| 15:00.43 | MohammadAG51 | hm, right |
| 15:00.54 | MohammadAG51 | kerio, no, kernel module limit |
| 15:01.04 | kerio | what's the hw limit? |
| 15:01.05 | DocScrutinizer | over time yes, over localization no |
| 15:01.19 | kerio | and is the module opensourced? |
| 15:01.26 | MohammadAG51 | all modules are |
| 15:01.33 | MohammadAG51 | kerio, you can edit limits |
| 15:01.42 | DocScrutinizer | heard the new devices use glue to harden the micro USB |
| 15:01.51 | MohammadAG51 | you'll have to use something other than the GUI |
| 15:01.55 | kerio | ooh i'm getting one of those |
| 15:02.08 | kerio | the wallcharger doesn't always work |
| 15:02.13 | TiagoTiago | if i installed the powerkernel would the fmtx limitations from what came with the device still be there or does it set it to a common value? |
| 15:02.14 | kerio | and the screen is scratched |
| 15:02.32 | kerio | TiagoTiago: it's mostly a ui problem |
| 15:02.47 | MohammadAG51 | TiagoTiago, afaik fmtx state is in cal |
| 15:02.47 | kerio | with v4l-ctl you can go 87.5-108 |
| 15:02.48 | romen | do you think it is possible to have the keyboard changed in a nokia center? |
| 15:02.57 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: correct |
| 15:03.00 | kerio | romen: probably not |
| 15:03.07 | MohammadAG51 | so the GUI will only show values for the region set in cal |
| 15:03.10 | kerio | but you can change your layout |
| 15:03.11 | MohammadAG51 | fmtx-faker helps |
| 15:03.16 | TiagoTiago | It would be pretty awesome if Nokia had a warranty like NSD (makers of the Powerball) offers |
| 15:03.19 | DocScrutinizer | romen: most likely yes |
| 15:03.31 | MohammadAG51 | romen, changing the keymat is piss easy |
| 15:03.32 | DocScrutinizer | romen: I changed it myself though |
| 15:03.38 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 15:03.40 | MohammadAG51 | two screws, then pry it |
| 15:03.48 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 15:03.50 | MohammadAG51 | i did with the screen & device on |
| 15:03.57 | kerio | TiagoTiago: like? |
| 15:04.04 | romen | MohammadAG51, I'm quite scared of opening it xD |
| 15:04.15 | MohammadAG51 | it's not opening the whole device :) |
| 15:04.21 | DocScrutinizer | romen: you're not exactly "opening" it |
| 15:04.46 | MohammadAG51 | oh, for the record, i just turned 17, so i'm not an engineer or something |
| 15:04.47 | DocScrutinizer | it's the two torx screws under keyboard |
| 15:05.01 | kerio | MohammadAG51: does it replace the fmtxd? |
| 15:05.08 | kerio | because i have jacekowski's |
| 15:05.14 | MohammadAG51 | kerio, no, it reports a different region |
| 15:05.18 | TiagoTiago | Worldwide, lifetime waranty, if you prove you got one made by them they will send you replacement parts no questions asked |
| 15:05.20 | MohammadAG51 | instead of the one in cal |
| 15:05.31 | MohammadAG51 | kerio, so you can use both |
| 15:05.35 | kerio | neat |
| 15:06.07 | GAN900 | MohammadAG51, nor a grammarian, apparently. :P |
| 15:06.18 | romen | DocScrutinizer, the two on the bottom of the rear side (bottom left and bottom right corners)? |
| 15:06.28 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 15:06.43 | DocScrutinizer | the other 4 are Phillips |
| 15:06.44 | MohammadAG51 | GAN900, err? :p |
| 15:06.50 | MohammadAG51 | PH0 afaik |
| 15:07.06 | MohammadAG51 | the torx screws are T6 i think |
| 15:07.06 | romen | DocScrutinizer, and where can I find spare parts? |
| 15:07.15 | DocScrutinizer | that's the hard part |
| 15:07.17 | TiagoTiago | as many times as you need |
| 15:07.19 | MohammadAG51 | spare parts for what? |
| 15:07.29 | MohammadAG51 | i used the same screws |
| 15:07.36 | MohammadAG51 | disassembled it 4 times |
| 15:07.53 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900?page=1 |
| 15:08.02 | *** join/#maemo chadi (~chadi@unaffiliated/chadi) |
| 15:08.06 | TiagoTiago | NSD rocks! :D |
| 15:08.09 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/ |
| 15:08.39 | romen | MohammadAG51, I have a N900 with finnish keyboard (as I'm living here and bought it here) but as I'm not a finnish/swedish speaker (even less a writer!!) the localized keyboard is quite uncomfortable |
| 15:09.13 | DocScrutinizer | romen: ^^^ |
| 15:09.21 | MohammadAG51 | esp the arrows, |
| 15:09.26 | DocScrutinizer | saremi is where I got my QWERTY |
| 15:10.01 | kerio | MohammadAG51: fmtx-faker did jack shit |
| 15:10.04 | kerio | ._. |
| 15:10.24 | romen | MohammadAG51, right, especially the arrows xD |
| 15:10.35 | MohammadAG51 | kerio, reboot |
| 15:10.37 | kerio | hmm... is there a way for nokia to check for past overclock? |
| 15:10.41 | kerio | MohammadAG51: i did |
| 15:10.43 | romen | DocScrutinizer, I'm checking thos 2, thanks! |
| 15:11.11 | MohammadAG51 | kerio, set region |
| 15:11.18 | kerio | romen: if you need help on keyboard remapping ask here |
| 15:11.31 | GAN900 | has dark spots on his screen. :( |
| 15:11.47 | TiagoTiago | :( |
| 15:12.04 | Stskeeps | GAN900: stop spilling coffee on it |
| 15:12.14 | DocScrutinizer | romen: inserting the new keymat is a bit tricky, as you need to do it both keymat and frame same time, but it definitely works |
| 15:12.33 | kerio | MohammadAG51: how do i do that? |
| 15:12.45 | MohammadAG51 | fmtx-faker-tool --help |
| 15:12.56 | romen | kerio, the thing is that as also the US N900 keymap is not really "standard" (due to size) just changing the keymap wouldn't be enough for me, as I would get crazy in looking for blue keys and the rightmost part of the keyboard would be completely different |
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| 15:13.14 | TiagoTiago | did you use a magnifying glass to read tiny text in a sunny day? |
| 15:13.52 | DocScrutinizer | romen: so you're quite out of options then |
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| 15:14.07 | GAN900 | Stskeeps, must be somebody else, I don't drin coffee. |
| 15:14.37 | Stskeeps | GAN900: it's the rot from talk.maemo.org seeping into your n900 then |
| 15:14.41 | MohammadAG51 | replace keymat + layout and you're done |
| 15:14.50 | GAN900 | Could be that |
| 15:14.58 | romen | MohammadAG51, how hard is that? |
| 15:15.04 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: dark spots on LCD ts are a known problem |
| 15:15.06 | GAN900 | Either way, it's going back to Nokia in a month. |
| 15:15.14 | frals | romen: the solution is obviously to learn swedish so you can use the keyboard properly... ;-) |
| 15:15.17 | DocScrutinizer | caused by too much force applied |
| 15:15.20 | romen | replacing keymat+frame? |
| 15:15.22 | GAN900 | wonders if they'll do another proto round. |
| 15:15.31 | DocScrutinizer | romen: only keymat |
| 15:15.51 | TiagoTiago | does the screen got tiny lenses that would focus the sunlight and burn stuff inside? |
| 15:16.23 | DocScrutinizer | romen: http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/product_info.php/info/p4575_Original-Nokia-N900-Keypad-QWERTY--english-.html |
| 15:16.44 | kerio | MohammadAG51: even with other/50 i get the usual restriction |
| 15:16.45 | romen | frals, yeah maybe, but still I will not use the Å, Ö, Ä keys very often I don't have so many sedish/finnish correspondants xD |
| 15:16.59 | *** join/#maemo MikeK (~chatzilla@93.164.179.114) |
| 15:17.05 | romen | (not to speak about the arrows xD) |
| 15:17.21 | frals | åäö is the shit ;-) |
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| 15:18.22 | romen | DocScrutinizer, my german is somewhere near my finnish/swedish, do they ship to finland? |
| 15:18.37 | DocScrutinizer | dunno, but probably yes |
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| 15:20.37 | TiagoTiago | is that your finnish? |
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| 15:20.59 | romen | DocScrutinizer, thanks! Anyway I will try to ask to some Nokia center near here if it is possible to change the keyboard through them, as I guess that with shipping costs to Finland the price will grow considerably |
| 15:21.24 | romen | TiagoTiago, my finnish, swedish and german are all around a level of 0 xD |
| 15:21.42 | romen | (among many other languages, unfortunately) |
| 15:21.48 | *** join/#maemo hari_ (~nokia@117.192.168.85) |
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| 15:22.01 | TiagoTiago | could you get the parts from somthing like ebay and have the service tcenter assemble it for you? |
| 15:22.20 | E0x | hmm look like the desktop switching can get done via dbus , where i can find reference of maemo dbus ? |
| 15:22.21 | kerio | if you bribe them, sure |
| 15:22.30 | kerio | dbus-monitor |
| 15:22.32 | kerio | :) |
| 15:22.33 | TiagoTiago | :\ |
| 15:22.46 | DocScrutinizer | romen: I'd say any Nokia center is supposed to perform this perfectly legitimate request |
| 15:23.28 | romen | TiagoTiago, do yuo think it would be even remotely possible?? In Italy (I'm Italian) they would be quite rude if I ask them to replace the keyboard of my device with a spare part provided by myself |
| 15:24.12 | romen | well actually in my home town I've always had troubles with the only nokia (nad other brands) care center |
| 15:24.56 | TiagoTiago | if the spare part is made by the same brand and intended to be used with that device, what would they have against it? |
| 15:25.58 | DocScrutinizer | romen: will your car repair shop be happy when you come for a oil swap and bring your own oil? |
| 15:26.19 | romen | TiagoTiago, that they cannot (over)charge you for it, therefore they will be surely able to come up with some (apparently to them) good reason to refuse it (and there will be nobody to complain with if you think the reason is not valid at all) |
| 15:27.25 | romen | DocScrutinizer, luckily I don't yet own a car: so many troubles, expenses and taxes xD |
| 15:27.45 | TiagoTiago | what if you offer to pay them the equivalent to the profit they would have if you bought an equivalent part from them? |
| 15:28.06 | kerio | as i said, bribe them |
| 15:28.23 | TiagoTiago | ah |
| 15:28.32 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: won't fly, as they are liable for the quality of the work, and you might bring a component with hidden defect |
| 15:28.54 | TiagoTiago | i see |
| 15:29.03 | romen | TiagoTiago, they would not admit that the real reason is that they would overcharge you for the spare part in addition to the workload for exchange the parts xD, kerio's solution is more fashionable in Italy xD |
| 15:29.21 | kerio | romen: IT_it here |
| 15:29.25 | kerio | sadly |
| 15:29.31 | TiagoTiago | it's a warranty voiding procedure? |
| 15:29.37 | DocScrutinizer | well, maybe if you come and just ask to *help you* do the swap, then they might do it on a different legal base |
| 15:30.45 | romen | DocScrutinizer, that would be one way to start a good "bribing" approach |
| 15:30.53 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 15:31.21 | TiagoTiago | does your lens cover make a litle noise whenyou shake your N900 a bit? |
| 15:31.34 | DocScrutinizer | not here |
| 15:32.00 | mirf | mine does |
| 15:32.06 | mirf | but I think tis' actaully the stand |
| 15:32.20 | TiagoTiago | hm, might be |
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| 15:32.34 | mirf | yeah the noise changes when I open the stand |
| 15:32.40 | mirf | its' a lot more loose |
| 15:32.48 | romen | anyway before buying it from germany and try to do it myself I'll ask here in Finland if they can "regularly" do it and how much will I be charged, they are usually so kind here in Finland xD |
| 15:33.11 | TiagoTiago | indeed it changes |
| 15:33.37 | TiagoTiago | lol, thanx for pointing it out :) |
| 15:34.38 | DocScrutinizer | romen: tell them you asked on Nokia technical support forum and it's just 2 screws and 10min of work, so they don't charge you for a complete disassembly of device |
| 15:34.51 | TiagoTiago | hm, but if i hold it still the noise doesn't go away.... |
| 15:35.44 | romen | TiagoTiago, here too, there is something moving and making some noise on shaking near the cover lens, but it does not stop when I hold with fingers the stand and the lens cover... |
| 15:36.37 | DocScrutinizer | lens cover is notorious to have... issues |
| 15:36.57 | romen | TiagoTiago, and the little "shaking" noise was there since I unboxed it, is not something recent |
| 15:37.38 | DocScrutinizer | seems they even reworked the slider design |
| 15:37.53 | TiagoTiago | ok, I think i've figured it out, it's the memory hard holder |
| 15:38.05 | romen | exactly |
| 15:38.11 | romen | I figure it right now xD |
| 15:38.17 | romen | *figured |
| 15:38.26 | TiagoTiago | card* |
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| 15:39.07 | DocScrutinizer | noobs, did you think about taking off the backlid and shaking it without the whole phone attached to it :-D |
| 15:39.16 | romen | DocScrutinizer, only now xD |
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| 15:39.48 | romen | that's how I figured it out (well, 5 months is not so long to coming out with this brilliant idea xD) |
| 15:39.50 | TiagoTiago | lol, i took of the lid and shook the phone xD |
| 15:40.27 | romen | TiagoTiago, my card holder is still empty, what about yours? does it make noise even with a memory card inside? |
| 15:40.50 | DocScrutinizer | no, doesn't |
| 15:41.21 | TiagoTiago | though i guess that is not all that dumb considering we had just noticed that holding the parts on the lid still didn't stop the noise |
| 15:41.45 | TiagoTiago | i don't have a card to put there yet :/ |
| 15:42.58 | DocScrutinizer | maybe you get a 1GB for free, when you get your next grocery shopping |
| 15:43.23 | TiagoTiago | are they that cheap over there? |
| 15:43.46 | DocScrutinizer | I guess they're 3 bucks if you can find any |
| 15:43.51 | DocScrutinizer | not checked |
| 15:43.56 | TiagoTiago | hm |
| 15:45.01 | TiagoTiago | are the cards the N900 use also victim of the pandemy of falsified mass storage devices like how it has been going on with Kingston pendrives? |
| 15:45.25 | pcfe | is your empty internal card holder in the open or locked position (as per the writing on the holder) |
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| 15:46.12 | TiagoTiago | it make noise unlocked, but locking still doesn't kill the noise |
| 15:46.27 | TiagoTiago | more noise* |
| 15:47.34 | TiagoTiago | damn batery sucking progs |
| 15:48.01 | pcfe | considering the price of cards thes days, if it bothers you, buy a small one |
| 15:48.18 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: (falsified) yes, there are falsified uSD, see http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=918. 1GB sandisk are 5.50, not 3.00 |
| 15:48.37 | pcfe | as to false cards, my N900 did not come with a card IIRC, anyway, when buying just be sure to buy from a reputable source and not from the low end of the price range |
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| 15:49.14 | pcfe | then, when you have it, write it full of verifiable data and read the data back plus verify |
| 15:49.25 | DocScrutinizer | EUR |
| 15:49.39 | pcfe | say, for example an ISO image of some Linux distro (big file and comes with a md5 or sha checksum file |
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| 15:51.35 | romen | TiagoTiago, what do you mean with "pandemy of falsified mass storage devices"? |
| 15:51.37 | DocScrutinizer | dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk1 count=1 bs=<size of card>; (well maybe count 1000, and size-of-card/1000) then do a md5sum |
| 15:51.38 | TiagoTiago | damn, just about 2 hours and almost 80% of charge used :\ |
| 15:52.00 | TiagoTiago | yeah, a disease that has spreead all over the world |
| 15:52.37 | DocScrutinizer | wonders if N900 might sufer same uSD Vdd shortcircuit issue on empty holder, that's been found on Freerunner |
| 15:52.42 | MohammadAG51 | doesn't the accelerometer support taps? |
| 15:52.54 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 15:53.00 | DocScrutinizer | even doubletaps |
| 15:53.09 | MohammadAG51 | and isn't the accel always on? |
| 15:53.20 | DocScrutinizer | maybe |
| 15:53.37 | TiagoTiago | we could use that for mouse clicks and the touch screen for mouse hovering! :D |
| 15:53.46 | MohammadAG51 | cool, then my post is half right |
| 15:53.54 | MohammadAG51 | the other half i'll need to check |
| 15:54.08 | TiagoTiago | dunno about batttery consumption though |
| 15:55.06 | SpeedEvil | The accel is not always on. |
| 15:55.09 | SpeedEvil | However. |
| 15:55.19 | SpeedEvil | The 'tap' mode uses _lots_ less power than pollin it |
| 15:55.20 | DocScrutinizer | lis302 is reasonably modest with power. It's connected to Vdd2_8, so 'always on' |
| 15:55.33 | SpeedEvil | By always on, I mean enabled |
| 15:55.50 | DocScrutinizer | mhm, that's a sw issue though |
| 15:55.51 | SpeedEvil | tap mode just generates an interrupt on tap. |
| 15:55.57 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
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| 15:56.14 | SpeedEvil | As far as I'm aware there is nothing to handle this though, so it gets ignored as it's not exposed to software. |
| 15:56.20 | DocScrutinizer | honestly g-meter is *never* supposed to be polled |
| 15:57.04 | DocScrutinizer | if kernel driver does polling, then that's abysmal wrong and BAD(tm) |
| 15:57.23 | SpeedEvil | Well - it's not really |
| 15:57.23 | celesteh | how often does maep update it's maps? I'd like it to re-download once a week or once a month. |
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| 15:57.37 | DocScrutinizer | usually you have it in differential mode, and trigger on any kind of movement |
| 15:57.41 | SpeedEvil | celesteh: The openstreetmap servers are at their limit. |
| 15:57.56 | SpeedEvil | celesteh: they're running on donated bandwidth, and are pretty much pinning it. |
| 15:58.24 | SpeedEvil | celesteh: In most places, there is not significant editing going on that would make updating much more than a couple of months worthwhile. |
| 15:58.44 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_usage_policy |
| 16:01.58 | *** join/#maemo marcels (~marcels@cm1017201-a.maast1.lb.home.nl) |
| 16:03.37 | tobis87 | Hi! Has anyone done nmon http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-analyze_aix/ for the n900? |
| 16:04.56 | SpeedEvil | It' |
| 16:04.59 | SpeedEvil | s a binary. |
| 16:05.02 | SpeedEvil | There is no source. |
| 16:05.06 | SpeedEvil | So no, it can't work. |
| 16:05.18 | pupnik | bundyo never chats does he |
| 16:06.12 | TiagoTiago|AFK | gonna go eat, be back in a bit |
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| 16:08.38 | TiagoTiago|AFK | is away: I'm busy |
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| 16:13.43 | tobis87 | SpeedEvil: Did you mean me? There is source: http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/nmon, and it only needs libncurses5-dev dependency. So I may be even able to compile it on the device. (gcc -o nmon lmon12f.c -Wall -D JFS -D GETUSER -D LARGEMEM -D DEBIAN -lncurses) |
| 16:14.50 | kerio | i read that as "nom" |
| 16:14.50 | SpeedEvil | tobis87: I couldn't see any link to the source |
| 16:14.50 | SpeedEvil | Is there actual source anywhere? |
| 16:15.06 | tobis87 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:15.32 | tobis87 | argh I meant SpeedEvil: |
| 16:16.05 | celesteh | SpeedEvil: I use open cycle maps, and my area (london) is in the midst of ading new cycle routes and other infrastructure for bikes |
| 16:16.38 | celesteh | SpeedEvil: I should donate to the OSM project, though |
| 16:16.48 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: ah - fair enough. london is better mapped |
| 16:17.17 | SpeedEvil | celesteh: |
| 16:17.39 | SpeedEvil | celesteh: I don't off-hand know how you'd convince maep to redownload periodically though. |
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| 16:19.19 | SpeedEvil | tobis87: http://www.mauve.plus.com/nmon - seems to work |
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| 16:19.33 | SpeedEvil | Though it's badly written. |
| 16:19.38 | SpeedEvil | (coredumps with no proc) |
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| 16:20.17 | kerio | is maep better than mappero? |
| 16:20.27 | SpeedEvil | dunno. |
| 16:20.46 | joga | maep is nice and simple in comparison |
| 16:20.56 | joga | mappero is a bit weird imo |
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| 16:21.06 | joga | it can do more though |
| 16:21.13 | ShadowJK | instead of reloading it'd be nice if there existed sensible way to check if it has been modifiedvupdated |
| 16:21.26 | TiagoTiago | is back (gone 00:12:48) |
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| 16:21.38 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: yes, I'm unsure if there is a nice way to do that with OSM/opencyclemap tiles |
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| 16:26.20 | tobis87 | SpeedEvil: Thanks, I will try it but I found that the source from debian is newer. I will try compiling it |
| 16:26.34 | SpeedEvil | tobis87: that was the compiled version from the tarball you linked |
| 16:28.36 | tobis87 | SpeedEvil: Yes, I know thank you for that. At first I thought it would be hard to compile it, but since it is only one file, I will try it myself. |
| 16:29.03 | SpeedEvil | looks like an interesting tool. |
| 16:29.09 | SpeedEvil | A proper package would be useful. |
| 16:31.38 | tobis87 | SpeedEvil: Yes this is my problem, I would do it. But I can't get going with scratchbox. I don't have problems backporting the newest firefox to the my oldest Ubuntu machines (7.10). But I fail miserably with working inside a vm. |
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| 16:36.56 | celesteh | I used to use Maemo Mapper with my n800 and it was birlliant, but the new version seems really unfinished |
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| 16:41.34 | TiagoTiago | well, i'm heading off, cya |
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| 16:52.58 | johnsq | Hi |
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| 17:27.09 | Finnish | How is Meego compared to Maemo on Nokia N900? |
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| 17:28.36 | Stskeeps | maemo's a consumer OS, meego's not atm |
| 17:28.37 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 17:28.54 | Finnish | Ah, ok |
| 17:28.56 | pronto | to me meego seems likes its for idiots(majority of people) and maemo is for linux nerds |
| 17:29.06 | Finnish | Buahahaa |
| 17:29.07 | pronto | but i've only used meego on a usb boot on my netbook |
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| 17:30.27 | MiXu- | Maemo does feel like an OS designed for linux nerds |
| 17:30.35 | MiXu- | It's like ubuntu but on a phoen. |
| 17:30.45 | pronto | O_o |
| 17:30.54 | pronto | that dont make sense |
| 17:31.04 | pronto | considing ubuntu is not for linux nerds |
| 17:31.08 | MiXu- | Ubuntu is for linux nerds. Don't get me started. :D |
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| 17:31.16 | MiXu- | If you use linux you are a linux nerd D: |
| 17:31.31 | pronto | uubuntu is for people who still want windows but also want linux |
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| 17:31.59 | MiXu- | Ubuntu is way too difficult for anyone who's not "computer literate" |
| 17:32.18 | pronto | that can be debated |
| 17:32.23 | MiXu- | Sure everything is ok if the only thing you do is use OoO and Firefox. |
| 17:32.47 | MiXu- | But people just don't understand why some stuff won't work on ubuntu. |
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| 17:33.43 | alterego | Windows is also pretty dificult for people that are not computer literate .. |
| 17:33.54 | alterego | As with pretty much any computer OS |
| 17:33.56 | PhonicUK | MiXu, most comp illiterates/semi literates i show ubuntu to find it easier than windows |
| 17:34.12 | PhonicUK | mostly because apps are organized by category |
| 17:34.14 | alterego | PhonicUK: I think it's easier too ... |
| 17:34.15 | MiXu- | PhonicUK: The UI is pretty easy yes |
| 17:34.24 | MiXu- | And the window manager is nice and flashy |
| 17:34.26 | pronto | ubuntu is like the retarded dog in a wolf pack |
| 17:34.40 | PhonicUK | and all apps are managed in the package manager |
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| 17:34.54 | MiXu- | PhonicUK: "all" meaning the ones community provides |
| 17:35.01 | Jartza | even my mom uses ubuntu |
| 17:35.07 | GAN900 | PhonicUK, my limited testing backs that up. |
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| 17:35.10 | Jartza | but she was always in problems with windows |
| 17:35.23 | PhonicUK | which provides almost everything the average user needs |
| 17:35.30 | PhonicUK | all the essentials |
| 17:35.30 | Jartza | she's Really computer-illiterate |
| 17:35.33 | MiXu- | Then John from Hickville buys Adobe Photoshop to edit his family photos and is surprised that it won't work. |
| 17:35.46 | GAN900 | The only sticking point tends to be specialized stuff for Windows. Accounting, photo editing, PIM, etc. |
| 17:35.47 | MiXu- | John takes his pc to service to have it fixed, and they install windows. |
| 17:36.15 | PhonicUK | if hes buying photoshop just to edit family photos, hes got other problems |
| 17:36.16 | Jartza | that happens too, yes. |
| 17:36.30 | MiXu- | PhonicUK: Yes. Not understanding shit about IT. |
| 17:36.38 | MiXu- | And that's 85% of population |
| 17:36.38 | Jartza | but I don't think that's too common. would happen with mac as well, if it was. |
| 17:36.49 | MiXu- | Jartza: There's photoshop for mac |
| 17:36.51 | PhonicUK | pre install gimp and getting a gimp book is what i do |
| 17:36.58 | MiXu- | But you do have a point |
| 17:37.08 | luke-jr | MiXu-: troll |
| 17:37.17 | Jartza | MiXu-: sure, but if you just go and buy "photoshop", they most propably just sell you a windows version :) |
| 17:37.21 | luke-jr | alterego is correct |
| 17:37.27 | GAN900 | MiXu-, who buys Photoshop? |
| 17:37.38 | luke-jr | KDE is far easier to use than Windows |
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| 17:37.49 | MiXu- | luke-jr: Yes, I am in a trolly mood today. But I'm saying Ubuntu is still way too difficult for majority of people, as people tend to be totally clueless when it comes to IT. |
| 17:37.53 | PhonicUK | all you need to explain is that they shouldnt buy any software and only use the package manager |
| 17:38.02 | wazd | oh crap, here comes the smoke again :( |
| 17:38.05 | luke-jr | MiXu-: Ubuntu sucks. A fair comparison is Kubuntu. |
| 17:38.14 | Jartza | my mom thinks meego was much messier and harder-to-use than ubuntu :) |
| 17:38.20 | Jartza | I tried meego on her laptop |
| 17:38.21 | PhonicUK | Ubuntu is only hard if yoju are too used to the windows ecosystem |
| 17:38.37 | PhonicUK | sdent from my n900 |
| 17:38.52 | MiXu- | I just read about a study today that stated that young people aren't actually computer literate. Many young kids don't even know how to google efficiently. |
| 17:38.58 | wazd | RST38h: looks and smells like you were right :( |
| 17:39.21 | PhonicUK | most people just type their question into google as plain english |
| 17:39.37 | luke-jr | PhonicUK: for the most part, that's the only way to do it… |
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| 17:40.40 | alterego | MiXu-: abundantly apparent when you read some of the questions in #linux .. even in here. |
| 17:40.50 | MiXu- | Yep :) |
| 17:41.32 | E0x | not python-xlib in maemo 5 ? |
| 17:41.45 | E0x | i saw the package is available in Diablo |
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| 18:12.27 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 18:12.30 | *** mode/#maemo [+f ##overflow] by DocScrutinizer |
| 18:12.36 | *** mode/#maemo [+j 3 20] by DocScrutinizer |
| 18:12.44 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
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| 18:15.47 | DocScrutinizer | [notice] channel has been set to join-throttling with forward. For join events exceeding a rate of 3 joins in 20 seconds, users are forwarded to ##overflow |
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| 18:17.17 | DocScrutinizer | if you encounter any recurring problems with this setting, please drop a note to any of the chanops (/msg chanserv access #maemo list) |
| 18:18.30 | chadi | does purging an app clear its settings from /home ? |
| 18:18.47 | DocScrutinizer | nope, usually not |
| 18:19.07 | DocScrutinizer | though depends on particular app pkg |
| 18:19.32 | chadi | aptitude... then what is the difference between remove and purge? |
| 18:19.55 | mortini | remove just removes it's package, but generally leaves some junk behind |
| 18:19.59 | mortini | purge removes said junk |
| 18:20.05 | chem|st | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:20.08 | mortini | like, a config file that's in that path |
| 18:20.13 | mortini | er, pacakge. |
| 18:20.41 | chem|st | usally the ones in home are not installed but created once a user starts the app |
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| 18:23.03 | chadi | umm ok ty |
| 18:23.04 | DocScrutinizer | as apt can't now about that fact, it depends what package maintained decided to do on postremove script. Best practice is to keep those files |
| 18:23.13 | DocScrutinizer | know* |
| 18:23.44 | chadi | and any idea where hermes stores its configuration files? |
| 18:24.33 | DocScrutinizer | just a generic idea: use strace hermes, and check for the file handles opened |
| 18:25.29 | chem|st | 2nd |
| 18:25.56 | chadi | DocScrutinizer: "strace hermes" in a terminal? That doesn't seem to work. |
| 18:25.59 | chem|st | oh hell I still am 12mA above a real deep sleep... |
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| 18:26.48 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, no idea what hermes is at all, so can't give better advice, except RTFM |
| 18:27.37 | chadi | DocScrutinizer: I mean, the strace command is not found.. |
| 18:27.53 | DocScrutinizer | aaah, it's in tools |
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| 18:28.19 | chadi | okay |
| 18:28.29 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5 |
| 18:28.36 | mortini | chadi: dpkg -L |
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| 18:28.48 | mortini | gives a listing from the pkg anyways |
| 18:29.15 | chem|st | chadi: it is a damn phone... all stuff for debugging and such most devel must be installed from terminal... |
| 18:30.23 | chadi | chem|st: no problem at all :-) |
| 18:30.31 | chem|st | good! ;) |
| 18:31.47 | chem|st | just wanted to make captain obvious happy, you will find some stuff provided in "tools" and some other in "extras-devel" |
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| 18:46.28 | tobis87 | To find the packages which only have been removed, but no purged, you cold just do "dpkg -l | grep ^rc" |
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| 18:47.19 | ShadowJK | gah |
| 18:48.03 | ShadowJK | I've had my N900 since November, and never encountered the bug where it gets stuck saying "Media format not supported" at everything |
| 18:48.16 | ShadowJK | and now it has happened twice in two days :/ |
| 18:48.21 | ShadowJK | grrr |
| 18:48.33 | pronto | :O |
| 18:48.39 | pronto | hands ShadowJK a cookie |
| 18:49.08 | ShadowJK | can't figure out how to fix it |
| 18:49.15 | DocScrutinizer | blames ShadowJK for OC... err, nah |
| 18:49.25 | ShadowJK | very often I get this bug where it just does nothing |
| 18:49.40 | ShadowJK | restarting mafw-gst something usually fixes that |
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| 18:49.52 | ShadowJK | but it's not working for this issue :-) |
| 18:50.13 | pronto | have you tried turning it on and off again? |
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| 18:51.16 | pupnik | super YAAY THANK YOU Tom Tanner for 'locate' package |
| 18:51.17 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: added some mangled media file? The hw accel is known to blow chunks on oddly encoded media files, and won't recover from that until reboot |
| 18:51.18 | ShadowJK | I have too much stuff open |
| 18:51.38 | ShadowJK | I'd rather spend some time figuring out how to recover than spend half an hour on a power cycle each time it happens |
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| 18:51.55 | ShadowJK | nope, not afaik |
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| 18:52.19 | ShadowJK | It happens in the middle when I've paused and want to resume |
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| 18:52.26 | DocScrutinizer | odd |
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| 18:53.31 | DocScrutinizer | and nothing in dmesg I presume |
| 18:53.47 | BCMM | half an hour for a power cycle? |
| 18:55.59 | ShadowJK | Well I need to copy/paste stuff from browser into notes, save that, copy paste it back to browser afterwards and so on... |
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| 19:02.28 | BCMM | but yeah, it would be useful to be able to reset the dsp from software |
| 19:03.03 | kthomas_vh | very useful :) |
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| 19:03.43 | BCMM | is it theoretically possible? |
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| 19:05.37 | pupnik | skaven is a fantastic mod composer |
| 19:06.12 | *** join/#maemo setanta (~setanta@189.115.166.12.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 19:11.54 | *** join/#maemo ilius (~ilius@unaffiliated/ilius) |
| 19:12.08 | ilius | During flashing N900, is it possible to change rootfs to 27 GB memory? |
| 19:13.03 | *** join/#maemo marciom_ (~marciom@186.212.112.70) |
| 19:13.03 | ilius | i have flasher-3.5 but i can not find any option for this |
| 19:13.18 | *** join/#maemo Macer (mace@rancorous.net) |
| 19:13.25 | *** join/#maemo setanta (~setanta@186.212.112.70) |
| 19:14.43 | kerio | ilius: rootfs is on the internal flash, not the eMMC |
| 19:15.04 | kerio | you can resize home in spite of MyDocs |
| 19:15.12 | kerio | (home also holds /opt) |
| 19:17.05 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@pdpc/supporter/student/phonicuk) |
| 19:17.16 | ilius | size of root partition is not really enough and not compatible with these much packages in meamo repo!! |
| 19:17.33 | ilius | how can i increase it? |
| 19:18.20 | *** join/#maemo Cy8aer (~Cy8aer@static-87-79-75-7.netcologne.de) |
| 19:18.54 | ilius | kerio: what do you mean "home also holds /opt" ? /opt is part of rootfs (mounted in /) and /home is in a separate device |
| 19:19.06 | jacekowski | no it's not |
| 19:19.55 | *** join/#maemo citygent (citygent@unaffiliated/citygent) |
| 19:20.03 | kerio | /opt is binded to /home/opt/ |
| 19:20.40 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 19:21.18 | ilius | whats the size of home? (my n900 can boot up right now) |
| 19:21.29 | *** join/#maemo chenca (~chenca@186.212.112.70) |
| 19:22.15 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (~aloisio@186.212.112.70) |
| 19:22.48 | ilius | most of application files will be installed to /usr, then i want to move /usr (or the root itself) to 27 GB device |
| 19:23.54 | *** join/#maemo TiagoTiago (~TiagoTiag@189-46-25-79.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 19:24.06 | TiagoTiago | hi |
| 19:25.32 | TiagoTiago | microB keeps refreshing over and over again in some sites, what can i do to fix this? |
| 19:25.48 | *** join/#maemo Bactius (~Janar@haga-cent-164.bitnet.nu) |
| 19:25.53 | *** join/#maemo lmoura (~lauromour@186.212.112.70) |
| 19:26.03 | kerio | ilius: most of the application files will be installed in /opt/, because of how the programs are packetized |
| 19:26.46 | ilius | kerio: how can i move /usr (or the root itself) to 27 GB device? this is my question! |
| 19:26.55 | kerio | don't know if it's possible |
| 19:26.59 | *** join/#maemo ioeee (~N900@224.Red-88-26-84.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:27.14 | DocScrutinizer | ilius: if you don't know how to 'mount|less', you probably shouldn't worry about all that |
| 19:27.21 | *** join/#maemo sezuan (bouncer@irc.scheff32.de) |
| 19:28.09 | TiagoTiago | isn't it just a matter of messing with the partitions of the 32 GB internal flash drive? |
| 19:28.14 | ilius | DocScrutinizer: yes i know that, but i was not deeped into it, and /opt was not matter for me |
| 19:28.28 | crashanddie | ilius: you can't |
| 19:28.29 | *** join/#maemo booiiing (~booiiing]@cl-959.dus-01.de.sixxs.net) |
| 19:28.36 | ilius | :'( |
| 19:29.22 | DocScrutinizer | if you want to move /usr out of /, the you need to make sure it's monted early enough during boot, as maemo managed to mess up system configuration by mandatory use of some commands living in /usr/(s)bin ;-( |
| 19:29.54 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: let's just move / to the eMMC |
| 19:29.54 | kerio | :D |
| 19:30.10 | DocScrutinizer | or you fix that flaw/bug, by moving the corresponding commands to /(s)bin where they belong |
| 19:30.14 | TiagoTiago | Doesn't the file system allows for trivcking the os into reading/writing stuff in a different place than it thinks they are? |
| 19:30.17 | ilius | DocScrutinizer: it seems that /usr is needed before even any statup script go to run |
| 19:30.39 | ShadowJK | If there's a package in extras that uses much space on /, it's a bug that should be reported |
| 19:31.27 | Bactius | I'm confused. If I have a problem with the LED-pattern, should I describe it at maemo talk forums? |
| 19:31.32 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: let's face it: optification is a bug on top of a bug |
| 19:31.37 | DocScrutinizer | ~optification |
| 19:31.38 | infobot | optification is, like, a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs |
| 19:31.48 | Bactius | And under which category? |
| 19:32.28 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, I would just have had PREFIX=/opt/maemo/ , and called it /usr/pkg/ instead of /opt/whatever ;p |
| 19:32.52 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (~aloisio@186.212.112.70) |
| 19:34.12 | TiagoTiago | somthing lieke symlinking the folder to another folder in the other parititon? (i don't know what i'm talking about, do i?) |
| 19:35.15 | ShadowJK | No I mean no symlinks |
| 19:35.19 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: you start to have a slight idea about what you're talking of |
| 19:35.39 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: but here it's done by bindmount |
| 19:35.43 | chem|st | TiagoTiago: try again ;) |
| 19:35.45 | DocScrutinizer | not by symlinks |
| 19:35.51 | TiagoTiago | cool! :) |
| 19:36.01 | ShadowJK | right now stuff is compiled with PREFIX=/usr, and installed to /usr, then moved to /opt/whatever and symlinked from /usr |
| 19:36.18 | chem|st | TiagoTiago: like matrix... there is no spoon |
| 19:36.42 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: incredibly stupid botch |
| 19:36.56 | chem|st | ShadowJK: did not undertand the initial though on that |
| 19:36.57 | TiagoTiago | indeed |
| 19:37.51 | TiagoTiago | i can feel there is no spoon, but i still see the shiny silverware instead of raining green code |
| 19:38.15 | chem|st | TiagoTiago: wrong pills my friend, wrong pills |
| 19:38.21 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 19:38.24 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 19:39.04 | chem|st | just be aware of the truth... everything is a file |
| 19:39.16 | ShadowJK | hopefully with MeeGo we get new enough kernel that btrfs or logfs works, so we can sanely have / on a big emmc |
| 19:39.52 | DocScrutinizer | with uBoot on NAND ;-D |
| 19:40.05 | *** part/#maemo ioeee (~N900@224.Red-88-26-84.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:40.11 | kerio | i want DumbOS on the NAND and meego on the emmc |
| 19:40.28 | DocScrutinizer | DumbOS==maemo :-D |
| 19:41.07 | jacekowski | well, somebody would have to find enough time to port nand driver to work with uboot |
| 19:41.14 | DocScrutinizer | meego on eMMC seems feasible right now |
| 19:41.32 | DocScrutinizer | orly? |
| 19:41.49 | jacekowski | and we can get uboot to work |
| 19:41.50 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: how's OM FR uBoot doing it then? |
| 19:41.53 | jacekowski | and replace nolo |
| 19:42.10 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: OM FR have different nand |
| 19:42.19 | jacekowski | well, controlled differently |
| 19:42.24 | DocScrutinizer | why replace NOLO? it chainloads uBoot happily |
| 19:42.24 | TiagoTiago | is there somewhere i can see a roadmap-like thing for opening up Maemo & company? |
| 19:42.39 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: where would you store kernel then? |
| 19:42.41 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: hmm? |
| 19:42.57 | jacekowski | get rid of 2nd stage nolo |
| 19:43.10 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: it's not like uBoot takes 127MB |
| 19:43.21 | jacekowski | and shove uboot there |
| 19:43.31 | jacekowski | and then kernel can stay where it is at the moment |
| 19:43.36 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@mm-59-129-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by) |
| 19:43.48 | DocScrutinizer | find the private key to sign it, and we'll all be thankful |
| 19:44.04 | jacekowski | 2nd stage bootloader is not signed |
| 19:44.11 | jacekowski | only 1st stage bootloader is |
| 19:44.13 | *** join/#maemo chenca1 (~chenca@186.212.112.70) |
| 19:44.19 | jacekowski | 2nd stage is only checksummed |
| 19:44.39 | DocScrutinizer | uhuh |
| 19:44.45 | TiagoTiago | Has anyone managed to replace the firmware with a bootloader and thenload Maemo and anythingnelse people managed to maeke compatible with the device from less firm storage areas? |
| 19:44.55 | DocScrutinizer | well, seems you need to discuss that with Stskeeps and maybe timeless |
| 19:45.07 | DocScrutinizer | they both disagree |
| 19:45.13 | DocScrutinizer | aiui |
| 19:45.34 | kerio | dumbos should run the phone to call by dialing numbers and to receive |
| 19:45.57 | jacekowski | 1st. there is only one signature for nolo |
| 19:46.34 | jacekowski | 2nd. no signature checking in 1st stage bootloader |
| 19:46.52 | *** part/#maemo alicemirror (~Alicemirr@87.253.117.195) |
| 19:47.14 | jacekowski | i'll try to replace 2nd stage nolo tomorrow |
| 19:47.28 | TiagoTiago | why was it decided to make the os be firmer than plain software? |
| 19:47.43 | DocScrutinizer | writes a condolence card, to be prepared - just in case |
| 19:47.55 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: i've already wiped mtd |
| 19:48.02 | jacekowski | well, part of it |
| 19:48.05 | jacekowski | mtd0 |
| 19:48.09 | jacekowski | the one with bootloader |
| 19:48.12 | koala_man | why am I getting a 302 Found "error" on the maemo repos? |
| 19:48.47 | jacekowski | phone can be booted from usb using flasher and then nolo can be flashed |
| 19:48.53 | *** join/#maemo RST38bis (~user@NAT-81-25-53-73.ultranet.ru) |
| 19:49.10 | jacekowski | so cat /dev/zero > /dev/mtd0 is safe |
| 19:49.15 | RST38bis | suddenly found another use for n900 |
| 19:49.16 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: great initiative on USB host mode |
| 19:49.28 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: anyway since there's absolutely no documentation about whole the bootprocess (that I'm aware of), I have not the slightest idea what you are talking about with 1. stage 2. stage and all that foo |
| 19:49.43 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: huh? |
| 19:49.46 | *** join/#maemo sepultina (~quassel@79-141.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 19:49.50 | jacekowski | 1st stage - nolo x-loader |
| 19:49.58 | jacekowski | MLO on beagle board |
| 19:50.19 | jacekowski | 2nd stage - real bootloader, uBoot, NoloScnd |
| 19:50.44 | RST38bis | N900 has much lower...eh..thermal profile than a laptop, so it is usable at 35oC with all windows closed |
| 19:50.54 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: deciding to release the binaries |
| 19:51.36 | RST38bis | Got smaller screen of course, but still better than getting boiled alive |
| 19:52.13 | *** join/#maemo ilius (~ilius@unaffiliated/ilius) |
| 19:52.49 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: ooh that old thing, well it's kinda funny how I posted a "I'm considering that" previously and then MohammadAG51 "decided" on it. Anyway I got the feeling the way it's coming along now users again will get it completely wrong |
| 19:53.40 | MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, we discussed it here on IRC |
| 19:53.46 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: it goes like that - omap boot rom -> read 1st stage bootloader -> verify signature -> run it or shutdown or boot from usb -> 2nd stage bootloader -> kernel |
| 19:53.58 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: Well, having more people trying to reproduce it can only bring good things -- as long as you guys filter out the "doesn't work, sux" comments |
| 19:54.43 | MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, and we all know the status of the project atm |
| 19:55.06 | DocScrutinizer | not exactly. Filtering of sux is easy, it's the false positives that really tend to ruin your day |
| 19:55.33 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: I'm not so sure "we all know" |
| 19:55.45 | MohammadAG51 | it's stalled, now we all know |
| 19:55.50 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: then you need to find a way to easily filter out the false positives |
| 19:56.11 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: depending on your definition of "we", "we" already knew |
| 19:56.17 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: that's as impossible as filtering out trolls at server level |
| 19:56.47 | DocScrutinizer | depending on your definition of "stall" you seem to miss quite a few details |
| 19:57.10 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: not if you ask for technical details (dmesg, amongst others), and fdisk information |
| 19:57.50 | DocScrutinizer | that's exactly the points that are going to ruin your day |
| 19:57.52 | RST38bis | feels like he is missing on a personal conflicts of sorts |
| 19:58.09 | RST38bis | once again, what is the matter? |
| 19:58.31 | DocScrutinizer | RST38bis: ??? |
| 19:58.40 | pupnik | i have taken a n900 into a sauna briefly |
| 19:58.44 | MohammadAG51 | RST38bis, nothing personal, normal discussion |
| 19:58.52 | RST38bis | hmm ok |
| 19:58.56 | MohammadAG51 | pupnik, i put mine in a fridge once |
| 19:59.10 | RST38bis | pupnik: is it still alive? |
| 19:59.30 | TiagoTiago | mine feels warm all over after charging for a while somtimes |
| 19:59.42 | pupnik | no RST38bis but the killer was different |
| 20:00.06 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: maybe you noticed new users in #mhd, maybe you also read maemo_developers_device_queue wiki |
| 20:00.40 | MohammadAG51 | I did |
| 20:01.28 | DocScrutinizer | and then we need to clearly know WHAT we are hoping to get from a mass deployment of a definitely borked kernel, for mere test purposes, and we need to publish that, and we need to give users the means to accomplish on gathering that info |
| 20:01.39 | RST38bis | pupnik: poor n900... |
| 20:02.15 | RST38bis | Doc: massive suffering of tmo lemmings, what else? |
| 20:02.34 | RST38bis | Isn't it a worthy goal? |
| 20:02.35 | pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrmIutAOooA Alright lastnight finland had VERY strange weather - stormfront at Hietanieme beach |
| 20:02.48 | DocScrutinizer | RST38bis: exactly - except hostmode devels drownng in the crap torrent |
| 20:02.56 | RST38bis | of course |
| 20:03.18 | RST38bis | does suspect few people really need the host mode though |
| 20:03.19 | TiagoTiago | microB keeps refreshing some pages, mostly unusablr, any idea how i can fix this? |
| 20:03.27 | kerio | i still want the hostmode :( |
| 20:04.05 | crashanddie | RST38bis: well, host mode was just fun |
| 20:04.42 | *** join/#maemo fiferboy (~quassel@Maemo/community/contributor/fiferboy) |
| 20:04.48 | crashanddie | RST38bis: you're not a true NIT convert until you've seen johnx setup a complete desktop system with only his n800 as computer in a couple of minutes |
| 20:05.48 | chem|st | kerio: even my notebook uses less power than my n900 so get off with stuff using power... |
| 20:05.52 | RST38bis | hmm... yes I can appreciate that but prefer bt peripherals |
| 20:06.57 | DocScrutinizer | at least one thing is for sure: publishing a hostmode test kernel prematurely, without proper announcement about what it is exactly, what we expect it to do and not to do, and especially without giving users one-click solutions to create proper reports, we will waste a big chance as no noob-user will give it a second try just for us comin along like "duh, we forgot: please do #a lsusb, #a dmesg>logfile, #a foo bar..." |
| 20:08.00 | kerio | noob-users? on *my* N900? |
| 20:08.01 | chem|st | crashanddie: my management was going uweeeee when I plugged it to the beamer and used an bt-pen for presentation |
| 20:08.02 | RST38bis | have you thought of integrating changes into titan's kernel? |
| 20:08.18 | MohammadAG51 | RST38bis, I suggested it, but it might conflict while testing |
| 20:08.31 | DocScrutinizer | hthey woll com ebitching at us for 2 weeks, then ask for a working kernel and otherwise turn a way from it |
| 20:08.55 | MohammadAG51 | hmm, I like the idea of something logging dmesg + usb statemachine |
| 20:09.01 | crashanddie | chem|st: yeah, I did a few presentations using the N900's TV output too |
| 20:09.10 | mord | pupnik: it /was/ rather scary |
| 20:09.38 | ShadowJK | has lost a DVB box so far |
| 20:09.39 | TiagoTiago | how does the main camera handles running behind a visible light filter (like a couple of layers of overexposed phpotographic film) ? |
| 20:09.43 | chem|st | crashanddie: the office's equipment is quiet low so tv out is fair enough ;) |
| 20:09.57 | ShadowJK | wasn'r qucik enough to unplug it when thuderatorm appeared :) |
| 20:10.33 | RST38bis | well at least that huge gaping asshole of a storm did not stay |
| 20:11.11 | DocScrutinizer | mord: see? we need to know what we want to ASK before we deploy a kernel for users to give us the ANSWER |
| 20:11.30 | *** join/#maemo hcarrega (~cardinal@a81-84-227-203.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 20:11.36 | *** join/#maemo mlfoster (~chatzilla@134.134.137.73) |
| 20:11.43 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: ^^^ |
| 20:11.52 | DocScrutinizer | sorry mord ETAB |
| 20:11.59 | mord | DocScrutinizer: np |
| 20:13.39 | TiagoTiago | is there another channel for getting help with misbehaving default progs on the N900? |
| 20:13.41 | pupnik | chem|st: you not being stupid makes me wonder what you mean about 'notebook uses less power than n900' |
| 20:13.50 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: you also seen red areas bleeding out to the right, on TV out? |
| 20:14.54 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: like chan tabs in red on xchat illegible |
| 20:14.54 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: can't say I have |
| 20:14.55 | DocScrutinizer | maybe just my TV |
| 20:14.58 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: I only used pictures generated from PPT |
| 20:15.21 | TiagoTiago | you should try on a different device |
| 20:15.23 | *** join/#maemo DantonicN800 (~user@c-24-10-116-215.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:15.28 | RST38bis | Doc: for a variety of reasons you wont get good tv output from N900 |
| 20:15.41 | DocScrutinizer | RST38bis: I'm aware |
| 20:15.59 | lcuk | has variable experience with tvout |
| 20:16.01 | DocScrutinizer | but that particular effect is kinda bug |
| 20:16.15 | RST38bis | naah |
| 20:16.55 | RST38bis | red/blue bleeding is standard when trying to show high contrast digital picture on tv |
| 20:17.09 | *** join/#maemo shinkamui (~KamN900@ip68-11-94-155.no.no.cox.net) |
| 20:17.25 | DocScrutinizer | mhm, ack |
| 20:17.31 | RST38bis | and you have got a pal tv right? |
| 20:17.40 | DocScrutinizer | so the contrast too high on my TV |
| 20:17.44 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 20:17.52 | TiagoTiago | got any test pic that would make that effeect obvious i can have? |
| 20:17.57 | RST38bis | yea if you can lower it do |
| 20:18.21 | RST38bis | or you can try lowering it with resistors |
| 20:18.28 | *** join/#maemo sepultina (~quassel@79-141.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 20:18.40 | DocScrutinizer | well it's probably the sensitivity of AV-in of TV that's mismatched to N900 |
| 20:18.51 | DocScrutinizer | yep, exactly |
| 20:18.53 | RST38bis | resistors. |
| 20:19.56 | *** join/#maemo vblazquez (~vic@254.154.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 20:20.25 | TiagoTiago | i haven't noticed any artifacts in my tv while display the tv-out from my N900 so far |
| 20:20.53 | tobis87 | DocScrutinizer: Could you not just make this experimental kernel dependend on a script which runs in the background. And this script would query all informations you would need and send these if the wifi would be connected? I don't like the idea, since it is how mirco$oft would do it, but it may be neccacery for the noobs. |
| 20:22.10 | TiagoTiago | i mean, other than the stretching due to brightenss and thefuvked up tops scanlines; but those issues are of the TV hardware itself, any input will have them |
| 20:22.26 | TiagoTiago | fucked up* |
| 20:22.48 | *** join/#maemo luizirber (~luizirber@187.39.126.64) |
| 20:23.06 | RST38bis | not quite |
| 20:23.36 | DocScrutinizer | tobis87: sure we could - just we didn't discuss THAT yet |
| 20:23.45 | RST38bis | digital sources tend to generate high contrast output with higher resolution than tv can handle |
| 20:24.24 | *** join/#maemo marciom (~marciom@186.212.112.70) |
| 20:24.24 | TiagoTiago | hm, i've just switched it to pal and it's a mess |
| 20:24.24 | RST38bis | this causes all kinds of artefacts, especially if this analog output is shown at digital tv panel |
| 20:24.54 | DocScrutinizer | (TV-out) http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10054 |
| 20:25.03 | tobis87 | DocScrutinizer: This just came to my mind, I think they did something like this for ubuntu as well, I remember uninstalling it was first thing I did. |
| 20:25.26 | TiagoTiago | gonna try hooking up directly to the TV insteada going thru the VCR to see if gets any better |
| 20:26.41 | pupnik | does X11 have temporal dithering? |
| 20:27.47 | TiagoTiago | damn fatass CRT with plugs only in the behind :/ |
| 20:27.55 | *** join/#maemo croppa (~stuart@202-90-54-173.static.linearg.net) |
| 20:28.48 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: ?? only with >200fps? |
| 20:29.45 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: i dislike banding, my eyes seem to be very sensitive to it |
| 20:29.48 | *** join/#maemo xnt14 (~xnt14@pool-96-250-166-116.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:30.41 | DocScrutinizer | you mean that rainbow thing seen on colorwheel projectors? |
| 20:32.17 | TiagoTiago | curious, my TV doesn't even show colors with PAL directly pluggrd..... |
| 20:32.42 | DocScrutinizer | maybe it's not a PAL device? :-D |
| 20:32.49 | TiagoTiago | like with 16 bit gradients? |
| 20:33.22 | TiagoTiago | it acepts NTSC, PAL-M and -N |
| 20:33.51 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, but probably does no good job on autodetect |
| 20:34.09 | TiagoTiago | which PAL does the N900 sends? |
| 20:34.13 | DocScrutinizer | seems you'll need to kick it to PAL |
| 20:34.19 | RST38bis | pal-m |
| 20:35.03 | TiagoTiago | set it manually to each format, still black and white, with some of the grays waving moire patterrns |
| 20:35.20 | RST38bis | hmmm, xchat does not run browser on url click |
| 20:36.52 | kerio | RST38bis: url hold |
| 20:36.55 | TiagoTiago | it also got some dashes just above the screen (the TV is 4:3) on the top left side |
| 20:38.23 | DocScrutinizer | RST38bis: click&hold |
| 20:38.30 | TiagoTiago | also for some reason it seems to wobble side to side kinda like how when the degaussers are running, but not as strong and no rainbowing |
| 20:38.56 | RST38bis | ah! thanks! |
| 20:39.11 | TiagoTiago | i need a new TV :\ |
| 20:39.25 | chem|st | TiagoTiago: I don't even own one... |
| 20:40.27 | *** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 20:40.45 | TiagoTiago | a program to gerate images that got patterrns like those ties and suits that flicker colored moire patterns would be fun |
| 20:40.57 | TiagoTiago | generate* |
| 20:42.51 | TiagoTiago | hm, now i'm getting the same issue with pal via the VCR... |
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| 20:54.54 | kerio | oh ffs my vibra is stuck again |
| 20:55.06 | kerio | i really need to send it to repairs :( |
| 20:56.00 | TiagoTiago | be back in a bit |
| 20:56.14 | TiagoTiago | is away: I'm busy |
| 21:01.18 | steinex | vibra? |
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| 21:02.28 | nox- | moin |
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| 21:10.10 | pupnik | so did I miss any lasting substitute for pulseaudio? |
| 21:11.14 | pupnik | NO. NO NONONO www.collabora.co.uk/projects/pulseaudio/ - |
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| 21:13.19 | TiagoTiago|AFK | is back (gone 00:17:05) |
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| 21:24.58 | crashanddie | TiagoTiago: please deactivate your away script |
| 21:26.19 | mc_teo | i live in ireland |
| 21:26.48 | mc_teo | which means none of the major websites have any of the barcodes in their dbs |
| 21:27.36 | mc_teo | so i have to like search for a while to get something that actually works in mbarcode |
| 21:28.25 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: hehehe :-S |
| 21:28.41 | DocScrutinizer | pupnik: also a 'fan' of PA? |
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| 21:29.32 | pupnik | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:29.33 | pupnik | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:29.33 | pupnik | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:29.38 | pupnik | end. of. story. |
| 21:30.13 | TiagoTiago | sorry 'bout the away msgs , it was on by dwefault on X-chat and i hadn' noticed it yet u.u |
| 21:30.16 | DocScrutinizer | isn't it amazing how Poettering and redhat managed to shove that crap down everybody's throat, just for no good reason? |
| 21:31.25 | crashanddie | TiagoTiago: use /away if you want, just make sure it doesn't pollute the channels you're in |
| 21:33.12 | pupnik | DocScrutinizer: that's the worst i've ever seen on any game on N900 |
| 21:33.39 | DocScrutinizer | allegedly PA was starting to do everything much better than ALSA (which has been managed by Suse/Novel ever since - nooo, surely didn't matter), and now we got another layer of soundserver over ALSA card interfaces, and the only two things it actually gave us which ALSA doesn't are audio-over-IP and hotswitching of devices |
| 21:33.40 | pupnik | need to completely replace both openal and bypass pulse |
| 21:33.50 | pupnik | yep! |
| 21:34.08 | ShadowJK | I did wonder, when pulseaudio used too much CPU on my desktop, how they'd make it work on a limited cpu.. |
| 21:34.36 | DocScrutinizer | the only two *useful* things, but then it also introduces all kinds of borkedness like the CPU usage and forcing a new audio API onto every app |
| 21:35.04 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, arguably it also gave an API with comprehendable documentation ;p |
| 21:35.46 | ShadowJK | most alsa apps remain buggy until they become so popular an alsa dev has to come add the voodoo to fix them |
| 21:35.49 | DocScrutinizer | well, maybe the documentation of ALSA could be better, but that could have been done |
| 21:35.51 | pupnik | it might be fixable performance-wise |
| 21:36.02 | DocScrutinizer | nah |
| 21:36.26 | pupnik | but a few things are atrocious, like the behavior when underruns occur |
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| 21:36.52 | pupnik | time to go kill a mewling kitten or two |
| 21:36.55 | pupnik | heh, cheers nox |
| 21:37.22 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: admittedly we had a long way to go until we considered ALSA working correctly, on twinklephone, but then I don't see PA is *any* better wrt that |
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| 21:37.41 | ShadowJK | my experience with alsa and underruns has been that it does something like: turn up volume to max, play burst of noise, corrupt all delay measurements |
| 21:38.16 | ShadowJK | pulseaudio on the other hand seems to just hang and not kill my ears :-) |
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| 21:39.21 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: not reproducible here, at least since ALSA 1.0.1 or somesuch |
| 21:39.50 | DocScrutinizer | 0.98 had a few nasty bugs still |
| 21:40.07 | ShadowJK | I never used alsa when it was 0.x |
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| 21:42.28 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, I don't get it how you need to discard and rewrite from scratch a whole framework, just because you are too lazy to study the docs and sources. PA is no % better than ALSA |
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| 21:43.11 | DocScrutinizer | ok, there are bugs in ALSA? fix then!! |
| 21:43.18 | *** join/#maemo luizirber (~luizirber@187.39.126.64) |
| 21:43.24 | DocScrutinizer | no docs? write them! |
| 21:44.13 | DocScrutinizer | btw -> http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/alsa-lib/group___p_c_m.html |
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| 21:45.18 | DocScrutinizer | I agree that's not great, but then otoh how many projects have a really better doc? |
| 21:45.25 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: as you mention it... I had this wierd behaviour of low sound in earspeaker, once I just touched all controls and now it seems to be loud enough to hear someone... |
| 21:48.06 | smhar | is there a way to enter text using handwritting in N900? |
| 21:48.09 | chem|st | sound behaviour seems to be random sometimes and even with PA niced all the way up there is still something having a hickup down left |
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| 21:48.37 | chem|st | smhar: garnettVM |
| 21:48.48 | chem|st | smhar: nevermind just kidding... |
| 21:49.27 | SpeedEvil | chem|st: there is a fix to pulseaudio |
| 21:49.27 | chem|st | smhar: for chinese only afaik (please tell me wrong) |
| 21:49.28 | smhar | chem|st, you got me high for just a little |
| 21:49.32 | SpeedEvil | chem|st: to prevent skipping |
| 21:49.39 | SpeedEvil | chem|st: however - it's not public |
| 21:50.12 | MohammadAG51 | PR1.3, i wonder when that is |
| 21:50.15 | chem|st | SpeedEvil: the skipping isn't the problem it is to have no sound or scrambled |
| 21:50.33 | chem|st | well if the no sound means it skips then well... |
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| 21:52.05 | chem|st | I still dont get why the drivers are so closed up... still |
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| 21:52.33 | TiagoTiago | are we gonna have Swype onthe N900? |
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| 21:54.25 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: btw I don't get what delay measurements you refer to. If you use a ring buffer with two segments of length N then you know the playback shall be off by N<delay<2N - as long as no plugins used. For plugin delay I dunno if there's any concept at all to deal with them, but they are supposed to be small enough not to matter |
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| 21:58.18 | chem|st | TiagoTiago: is swype available for nitdroid? then yes if not I doubt it |
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| 22:00.08 | trumee | SpeedEvil, will tha PA fix overcome the sip bug #10388? |
| 22:00.09 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10388 Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem? |
| 22:00.25 | lcuk | pupAssembly results look uber cool |
| 22:00.40 | lcuk | digging through the js1k stuff |
| 22:00.47 | lcuk | damn pupnik left |
| 22:00.52 | TiagoTiago | why isn't voltage used to measure battery charge while recharging? |
| 22:00.57 | lcuk | http://hackaday.com/2010/08/08/behind-the-scenes-of-a-1k-graphics-demo/ |
| 22:01.43 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: also buffer underruns clearly will playback the old content of the other end of the ringbuffer. I don't see how they could start to act up, change volume and playback random noise |
| 22:01.53 | trumee | it seems that bug is not a sip issue rather a PA/alsa issue |
| 22:01.54 | lcuk | js1k.com/demo/79 is cool as are lots of the others |
| 22:02.20 | SpeedEvil1 | dunno trumee |
| 22:03.00 | trumee | SpeedEvil, is that fix on maemo bugzilla? |
| 22:03.14 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 22:03.23 | SpeedEvil | was something about choppy audio |
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| 22:03.44 | SpeedEvil | an internal fix with a note that nokia does not say when it will release releases at the end |
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| 22:04.09 | trumee | hmm. quick search doesnt reveal it |
| 22:05.18 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: why should it? |
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| 22:09.33 | TiagoTiago | I'm looking at the graph from BatteryGraph and it gives a decent approximation of the amount of charge in the battery and it is the only readout that contimues to be updated while the charger is plugged |
| 22:11.43 | DocScrutinizer | that internal fix and "don't publish any source before binary hits the endusers' devices" policy - just to avoid happening again their competitors roll out a device like pre with stuff Nokia "invented" and not yet shipped - that's actually so annoying... no words for that |
| 22:12.27 | trumee | SpeedEvil, search on PA and fixed doesnt bring up that bug |
| 22:12.45 | TiagoTiago | well, "annoyning" is a word.... |
| 22:13.50 | TiagoTiago | at least if spelled correctly |
| 22:14.04 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: LiIon charging is way more complex than you seem to think. Yet basically it's stupid simple to charge, just to analyze state is a bit more complex |
| 22:14.44 | TiagoTiago | like i said, the lines in the graph make sense |
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| 22:15.36 | DocScrutinizer | you *think* they do |
| 22:16.31 | trumee | SpeedEvil, i have given up on finding that bug number. |
| 22:16.43 | DocScrutinizer | ~tell TiagoTiago about batteryfaq |
| 22:16.46 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer: not only because they are founding OSS so proudly |
| 22:16.58 | TiagoTiago | it's the only line updated while charfing, and the moment i pull the plug the "bars" and "miliamps" liines jump to pretty close to where the voltage line is |
| 22:17.26 | chem|st | if they put it OSS noone else can provide it closed anymore |
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| 22:18.41 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: so complain with author of that batterygraph app? I'm not using it and I see no such problems anywhere |
| 22:18.42 | TiagoTiago | unless they try to use the "great minds think alike" excuse/kiss-assery |
| 22:18.55 | TiagoTiago | what problem? |
| 22:19.46 | DocScrutinizer | your problem |
| 22:19.58 | TiagoTiago | what's my problem? |
| 22:20.05 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 22:20.13 | DocScrutinizer | yeah what's your problem?? |
| 22:20.16 | *** join/#maemo masterhumper (~SeJo@exherbo/developer/sejo) |
| 22:20.33 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 22:21.08 | DocScrutinizer | which brings us back to [2010-08-10 00:05:17] <DocScrutinizer> TiagoTiago: why should it? |
| 22:21.11 | *** join/#maemo guerby (~guerby@191.174.71-86.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 22:21.24 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 22:21.45 | SpeedEvil | trumee: It doesn't. |
| 22:22.04 | SpeedEvil | trumee: I don't remember which component it was on, it wasn't on media playeer. |
| 22:22.16 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 22:22.21 | SpeedEvil | wasn't on pulseaudio |
| 22:22.24 | SpeedEvil | maybe media |
| 22:22.33 | trumee | SpeedEvil, hmm. |
| 22:23.01 | MohammadAG51 | PA fix? |
| 22:23.13 | TiagoTiago | Well, other means to measure battery charge while charging doesn't seem to work, the battery icon oin the status bar for exaple doesn't inform anything about the current battery charge other than it's going up |
| 22:23.47 | trumee | SpeedEvil, media and fixed brings up 233 bugs |
| 22:24.12 | trumee | MohammadAG51, yeah. any idea which one is that? |
| 22:24.12 | MohammadAG51 | bug 7190 |
| 22:24.13 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7190 music stutters while multi-tasking, especially browsing web |
| 22:24.21 | MohammadAG51 | faster than a bot |
| 22:24.55 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 22:27.13 | trumee | MohammadAG51, thanks for pointing that out |
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| 22:28.55 | tybollt | ecoach users? |
| 22:29.41 | tybollt | w/ the symbian app similar to ecoach you get altitude measurements as well - guess ecoach doesn't extract that from the gps? |
| 22:29.51 | tybollt | are there other better apps for this? |
| 22:30.18 | lcuk | tybollt, contact sampo, he is very receptive to feedback |
| 22:30.25 | SpeedEvil | yes, that one MohammadAG51 |
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| 22:31.32 | alturiak | tybollt: it does, altough not very accurate. gps recorder is quite nice, too. they both have their use. |
| 22:32.29 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@22.174.broadband3.iol.cz) |
| 22:33.55 | TiagoTiago | is it possible to filter The GPS coordinates before sending them to programs reading them, somthing like an average of the last few N positions weigthed by precision: |
| 22:35.07 | TiagoTiago | weighted by their precisions* |
| 22:35.34 | *** join/#maemo Smily (Smily@89.142.220.6) |
| 22:36.11 | TiagoTiago | ? |
| 22:37.07 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: why? |
| 22:37.32 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_GPS contains some GPS accuracy info |
| 22:37.44 | SpeedEvil | I have not yet extracted noise info |
| 22:38.15 | *** join/#maemo dailylinux (~test@s21-00210.dsl.no.powertech.net) |
| 22:38.52 | TiagoTiago | i left mapero running over nigth by the window and the track recorded when i woke up was filled with spikes hundred of meters away forom the center position |
| 22:39.04 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@84-75-183-32.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:39.34 | SpeedEvil | Windows can be opaque. |
| 22:39.45 | SpeedEvil | Some energy saving windows have coatings that block GPS |
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| 22:40.39 | TiagoTiago | the other day driving around the track recorded appeared to be the path of someonee playing GTA, with a tank blasting thru buildings |
| 22:42.06 | TiagoTiago | like on that movie ( i think it was a 007 one) with the tank doing powerslides and demolishimg brick walls |
| 22:42.16 | SpeedEvil | Same with cars |
| 22:42.19 | SpeedEvil | some block GPS |
| 22:42.40 | *** join/#maemo crs (~crs@gentoo/user/crs) |
| 22:43.09 | BCMM_ | it would be nice if applications that can leave a track could be configured to leave a gap where the error is above a specified amount |
| 22:43.28 | TiagoTiago | the point is, with a filtering like i suggested, i expect the coordinates programs get would appear much closer to reality |
| 22:43.53 | alturiak | same for ecoach, it only polls every two seconds - and sometimes, the position is way off, leaving a nasty spike in the track |
| 22:44.00 | BCMM_ | if i'm walking about in town with maep running, it leaves spiky patterns on the trace every time i go into a building |
| 22:44.29 | SpeedEvil | also - you need a decent signal if you're expecting it to do dynamics |
| 22:44.44 | SpeedEvil | BCMM: you can. |
| 22:44.45 | TiagoTiago | if the coordinate has a precision of hundreds of meters it would have very little weight |
| 22:44.46 | alturiak | even in the field, without anything blocking gps ;-) |
| 22:44.50 | SpeedEvil | BCMM: though only with grep |
| 22:46.01 | TiagoTiago | spikes would be significantly reduced and made closer to more accurate emeasurements |
| 22:46.54 | *** join/#maemo SWFu (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu) |
| 22:47.00 | TiagoTiago | at least if the algorithm works as i expect |
| 22:47.16 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: The GPS outputs confidence figures. |
| 22:47.20 | SpeedEvil | You can use those. |
| 22:47.24 | SpeedEvil | Much stuff does not. |
| 22:47.35 | TiagoTiago | yep |
| 22:47.37 | SpeedEvil | This is a bug on behalf of the apps. |
| 22:48.48 | TiagoTiago | many do show the circle of where you might be, but they still have the coordinate umtouvhed |
| 22:49.32 | TiagoTiago | they are aware of the estimated error margin, they just don't do much about it |
| 22:49.42 | SpeedEvil | they can't. |
| 22:50.04 | TiagoTiago | with my algorithm they might |
| 22:50.11 | SpeedEvil | Or rather - they can't magically guess what is the position is. |
| 22:50.31 | SpeedEvil | I'm actually 1/4 through coding a software GPS in assembler for stm32. |
| 22:50.37 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 22:51.18 | TiagoTiago | my algorithm should help them make a more accurate guess about the real position |
| 22:51.51 | SpeedEvil | What algorithm - sorry - I missed that. |
| 22:52.54 | TiagoTiago | current position = average of N previous positions weigthed by their respective precisions |
| 22:53.07 | TiagoTiago | erm |
| 22:53.40 | TiagoTiago | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:55.02 | Robot101 | yeah the reporting location in your status had loads of fun bugs there |
| 22:55.04 | TiagoTiago | if it works as i expect it to, it shloud reducee significcanrtly the imprecision spikes in thee recorded track keeping the points closer to the real coordinates |
| 22:55.08 | SpeedEvil | That works but only if you know it's static |
| 22:55.26 | cehteh | note that every averaging also induces latency |
| 22:55.44 | Robot101 | if the accuracy plummets and the position goes miles away, but your previous position was within the tolerance, and more accurate, it makes more sense not to jump your position around |
| 22:56.13 | TiagoTiago | shloud work for moving measuremens as well, might need to also weight by how recent each prwvious measwuremnt is |
| 22:56.16 | SpeedEvil | There is also the issue that most apps don't get the difference between GPS and cell positioning. |
| 22:56.18 | cehteh | doesnt i have a 'precision' for each measurement? |
| 22:56.25 | SpeedEvil | cell positioning can be hundreds of km out |
| 22:56.27 | SpeedEvil | yes, it does |
| 22:56.46 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_GPS_Reverse_Engineering |
| 22:56.51 | TiagoTiago | what is the precision reported for cell towers? |
| 22:56.54 | Robot101 | yeah, the jumping from GPS to cell positioning would make people jump cities on their IM status depending if they had GPS or not |
| 22:56.56 | SpeedEvil | though there is proabbly a better link to liblocation |
| 22:57.15 | SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/liblocation/ |
| 22:57.48 | cehteh | so you can include that in your averaging .. if accuracy drops AND the position is farer of than with the current speed would be possible then just drop it or average it .. but if accuracy is high give a higher preference to the current measurement and dont put much weight into averaging previous positions |
| 22:59.14 | cehteh | there is this 'jspeed' applet which is pretty unuseable because it doesnt make any averaging btw .. |
| 22:59.20 | TiagoTiago | i' not saying my algorithm is perfect, but i expect it to work much better than raw coordinates except in worse case scenarios (where it probably wouldn't be worst than raw measurements in terms of how wrong it can get) |
| 23:00.18 | cehteh | does liblocation really provide raw data? i expect its already a bit corrected and averaged in the gps |
| 23:00.32 | cehteh | firmware stack or whatever works there |
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| 23:01.05 | TiagoTiago | is that what mappero uses? |
| 23:01.33 | cehteh | no idea |
| 23:03.45 | TiagoTiago | there is a tiny nic the smooth part of the "arm" of my glasses gthat goes behind my left ear, barelly noticeable but it's gradually scraping the skin there :( |
| 23:04.20 | BCMM_ | TiagoTiago: you could cover it with a tiny amount of nail varnish |
| 23:04.48 | TiagoTiago | hm, that sounds like it might work, thanx :) |
| 23:05.23 | BCMM_ | nail varnish has a multitude of good uses |
| 23:07.42 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: It does not. |
| 23:07.49 | BCMM_ | or you could use tape, since glasses with sticky tape on them earn you geek points |
| 23:08.10 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: Raw data in this case would mean raw psuedoranges - which are the raw relative doppler rates to the satellites. |
| 23:08.17 | TiagoTiago | how those military things work qith GPS, balls cooking powerdull antennas? |
| 23:08.22 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: It does not provide that. |
| 23:08.41 | TiagoTiago | damn typos |
| 23:08.45 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: It provides position only, and information about the errors on that position. |
| 23:08.58 | *** join/#maemo retro|cz (~retry2@125.151.broadband3.iol.cz) |
| 23:09.01 | SpeedEvil | (well - velociry and error velocity too) |
| 23:09.16 | SpeedEvil | Also sats and their signals. |
| 23:09.33 | SpeedEvil | But no more detailed information that would let you usefully postprocess the signal. |
| 23:09.46 | TiagoTiago | isn't actually signal/noise ratio? |
| 23:09.51 | SpeedEvil | I have a couple of days of data that I need to analyse. |
| 23:10.02 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: No, it's really horribly more complex than that. |
| 23:10.06 | TiagoTiago | isn't it* |
| 23:10.14 | BCMM_ | TiagoTiago: which military things? |
| 23:10.30 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: It's 'basically' the error dispersion found by the kalman filter that's inside the GPS. |
| 23:10.47 | TiagoTiago | drones, bomb disposal bots, those darpa driverless racers etc |
| 23:10.55 | TiagoTiago | wow |
| 23:11.04 | BCMM_ | TiagoTiago: there are certain types of GPS signals that are used only by the US mil, and iirc the workings of some of them are secret |
| 23:11.26 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: Each sat broadcasts its timestamp. The GPS takes the known orbits, the timestamps, and works out a position from these. |
| 23:11.33 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (~aloisio@186.212.112.70) |
| 23:11.44 | TiagoTiago | i thought they let civilians use GPS to the full centimeter precision |
| 23:11.49 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: If there are 4 sats, you can work out an unambiguous 3D position. (if they are in the right place) |
| 23:12.24 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: If there are 5 sats however - the errors won't quite match up, and you cannot 'solve' the position to a point - it comes out as a probability. |
| 23:12.35 | SpeedEvil | If you ignore any satellite you get a different solution. |
| 23:12.39 | TiagoTiago | wouldn't 3 sats be enough to get a position on earth and a position in earth's orbit? |
| 23:12.46 | SpeedEvil | no, you need time too. |
| 23:12.51 | BCMM_ | TiagoTiago: i believe they subsequently got even better military signals |
| 23:12.55 | SpeedEvil | 3 sats give a 2d fix. |
| 23:13.20 | SpeedEvil | With WAAS/EGNOS/... you get a ~2m error. |
| 23:13.27 | BCMM_ | TiagoTiago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_signals#Military_.28M-code.29 - hopelessly vague, i'm afraid |
| 23:13.35 | TiagoTiago | distance from e points should be enough for two possible 3d coordinates |
| 23:13.47 | SpeedEvil | With local differential GPS - which costs lots - you get centimetric. |
| 23:13.50 | SpeedEvil | e? |
| 23:13.53 | TiagoTiago | 3 points* |
| 23:14.01 | TiagoTiago | gah |
| 23:14.03 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: you don't have a perfect time. |
| 23:14.10 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: so you need 4 for a 3d fix |
| 23:14.17 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: yep, that unawareness-of-precision thing in most apps is rather annoying. Fahrplan for example gave me wrong schedule for my bus, as it picked the station from a raw-position that libloc delivered 4s after switching on, and the station was off 1500m |
| 23:14.37 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 23:15.01 | SpeedEvil | And the m-code docs are published in _lots_ more detail than that. |
| 23:15.07 | SpeedEvil | It's 'just' the key which is secret. |
| 23:15.07 | DocScrutinizer | well, thank god it's been raining cats and dogs |
| 23:15.08 | SpeedEvil | AIUI |
| 23:16.16 | BCMM_ | is it possible for an application that doesn't know about precision to be given the cell-tower location? |
| 23:16.35 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 23:16.42 | SpeedEvil | Or rather. |
| 23:16.43 | TiagoTiago | time between the signal sent and you getting it gives you distance, kmowing the position of the 3 emiters and your distsnce to the should let you calculate 2 possible positions |
| 23:16.44 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 23:16.57 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: you don't know the local time though |
| 23:17.17 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: Being one microsecond off in your local time gets you a position error of 300m. |
| 23:17.21 | BCMM_ | (i presume that when i see 0 sats and my location is given as a stationary point that is not where i am with an error of many hundreds of meters, that position is the cell tower i'm connected to, right?) |
| 23:17.29 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: So you have to solve for time. |
| 23:17.35 | SpeedEvil | BCMM: yes |
| 23:17.38 | TiagoTiago | well, up to the precision of the devicem's internal clock |
| 23:17.54 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: which is perhaps accurate to a microsecond a second - best case. |
| 23:18.27 | BCMM_ | on a sorta-related thing, any advances on setting the n900's clock from GPS? |
| 23:18.28 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: The local clock - without lock to the satellites - is no better than around 100ppm. |
| 23:18.35 | BCMM_ | last i heard, it basically didn't work |
| 23:18.46 | SpeedEvil | BCMM: it is not meant to. |
| 23:19.06 | SpeedEvil | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10163 |
| 23:19.07 | povbot | Bug 10163: GPS does not automatically set time of device. |
| 23:19.15 | BCMM_ | oh |
| 23:19.53 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: So you have to also solve for time, to get an accurate position. Hence 3 sats = 2d fix, 4 sats = 3d |
| 23:20.09 | TiagoTiago | isn't there some sort of phase detection or even differences in the signal reeceived that would let you measure time with more p.recision than the devices clock's? |
| 23:20.10 | BCMM_ | so when you set it to automatically update the time, how is it supposed to do it? NTP? something in one of the GSM protocols? |
| 23:20.19 | DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: try to stop speed of light with a stopwatch ;-) |
| 23:21.08 | BCMM_ | ah, bug says GSM - so if it doesn't work for me, it's probably my network's fault? |
| 23:21.17 | DocScrutinizer | internal clock is off by seconds rather than microseconds, and microseconds is quite sufficiently inaccurate a granularity even |
| 23:21.28 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, cannot stop it, but I can send it on a U turn |
| 23:21.49 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I *knew* you'd say that :-D |
| 23:21.55 | lcuk | :D |
| 23:22.02 | TiagoTiago | the fourth is to calibrate the time imprecision? |
| 23:22.24 | DocScrutinizer | the fourth is the clock |
| 23:22.31 | DocScrutinizer | *IS* even |
| 23:22.49 | TiagoTiago | hm |
| 23:23.08 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: yes |
| 23:23.11 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: well - no |
| 23:23.16 | TiagoTiago | lol |
| 23:23.25 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: All four are used to derive both the local time, and a position. |
| 23:23.27 | DocScrutinizer | to be precise, you get just ratiometric values for distance to 4 sats first |
| 23:23.30 | lcuk | likes answers like that |
| 23:23.32 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: one is not used as a clock |
| 23:24.03 | DocScrutinizer | it's jsut when you finally decided your exact position then you can get microsecond accurate time from sats |
| 23:24.14 | lcuk | the results from each sat allows cross referencing between them |
| 23:24.18 | *** join/#maemo [DarkGUNMAN] (~user@host86-170-238-59.range86-170.btcentralplus.com) |
| 23:24.31 | SpeedEvil | In 'reality' all of the differential ranges and range-rates of the satellites are thrown together in a kalman filter, which spits out position/velocity/uncertainty values. |
| 23:25.03 | lcuk | considered this sort of algorithm for positioning n900s using sound o_O |
| 23:25.20 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 23:25.31 | TiagoTiago | please elaborate |
| 23:25.49 | DocScrutinizer | distance to 1.sat=1.0, to 2nd=1.0000235, to 3rd=0.94598, to 4th=1.100234 |
| 23:25.53 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@net-91-81-208-43.cust.dsl.vodafone.it) |
| 23:25.58 | SpeedEvil | http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gps_f.html - read that. |
| 23:26.07 | DocScrutinizer | this together with pos of the 4 sat gives you your pos |
| 23:26.29 | SpeedEvil | You don't get distances, you get psuedoranges. |
| 23:26.33 | TiagoTiago | i mean the audio GPS thing |
| 23:26.40 | SpeedEvil | The satellites all broadcast the current time. |
| 23:26.44 | SpeedEvil | ah - right |
| 23:26.56 | SpeedEvil | Sonar should be quite possible in a limited form |
| 23:27.20 | lcuk | TiagoTiago, just part of doing this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSrwpbxyAM it was one of a few algorithms I looked at |
| 23:28.09 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, how often is timestamp transmitted? |
| 23:28.14 | lcuk | or is that the signal itself |
| 23:28.27 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: the simple answer to that is 'once every 30s' |
| 23:28.44 | lcuk | fair enough |
| 23:28.44 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: this is somewhat misleading, as this is how often it transmits an actual time. |
| 23:29.25 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: however - there are implied timestamps by the format of the signal at 1/1024th of a second, 1/50th of a second, and also smaller intervals. |
| 23:29.26 | DocScrutinizer | the signal is phaselocked to time though |
| 23:29.31 | SpeedEvil | oh - 6s too |
| 23:29.33 | lcuk | cool |
| 23:30.13 | SpeedEvil | 6s data packets, one of 5 has a timestamp in, transmitted at 50bps, with each bit repeated 20 times. |
| 23:30.16 | lcuk | and I am guessing doppler is taken into account on the recv, but I will read the rest of the posting you did |
| 23:30.36 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: basically, yes. Doppler, and yourvelocity + satvelocity |
| 23:30.47 | SpeedEvil | And local clock drift |
| 23:30.50 | lcuk | it doesn't know your vel |
| 23:31.11 | DocScrutinizer | basically doppler is one of the obstacles why you need so high effort to really receive the sats |
| 23:31.32 | lcuk | the bigger obstacle literally is buildings and reflections |
| 23:31.34 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: It does not generate every position from scratch. It uses the current estimate of position to work out the time, and fresh position info from the changes in signal. |
| 23:31.46 | SpeedEvil | And multipath adds fun. |
| 23:32.08 | lcuk | ahh |
| 23:32.09 | SpeedEvil | Basically you can ignore any 'late' reflections, if you do things carefully, without much affecting the ignal. |
| 23:32.20 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 23:32.39 | TiagoTiago | hm, GPS signal bounces, i hadn't thought about that before, interesting issue |
| 23:32.41 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: Multipath that is shorter than 1us is 'simply' ignored. |
| 23:33.03 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: It can - with more smarts be used to augment the signal, and improve lock. |
| 23:33.03 | lcuk | cool |
| 23:33.33 | DocScrutinizer | I'm frequently 'mirrored' inside a building with high wall in front of me, rather than correct pos outside |
| 23:33.51 | *** join/#maemo panaggio (~panaggio@200-158-190-75.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 23:33.53 | TiagoTiago | does the N900 uses the bounces for enhacement? |
| 23:34.12 | DocScrutinizer | just when a less tall building is behind me though |
| 23:34.20 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago: Essentially nothing is known about the algorithms of the n900 gps |
| 23:34.35 | *** join/#maemo marciom (~marciom@187.58.100.181) |
| 23:34.39 | DocScrutinizer | so most of 'visible' sky is by refexion on that high building |
| 23:35.00 | lcuk | does your position actually show reflected? |
| 23:35.11 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 23:35.17 | lcuk | rarely attempts gps other than in car |
| 23:36.05 | DocScrutinizer | incl reversal of velocity and direction |
| 23:36.12 | DocScrutinizer | well not velocity |
| 23:36.22 | SpeedEvil | Interesting. |
| 23:36.28 | TiagoTiago | indeed |
| 23:36.30 | DocScrutinizer | but movement vector and change of pos, so |
| 23:36.35 | DocScrutinizer | ~2119 |
| 23:36.35 | infobot | The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. |
| 23:36.52 | TiagoTiago | :) |
| 23:37.40 | TiagoTiago | is the GPS code just a binary blob or a firmware running separatedly in the GPS chip itself? |
| 23:38.26 | DocScrutinizer | #2 |
| 23:38.35 | SpeedEvil | It's inside the cellmo |
| 23:38.41 | SpeedEvil | reportedly. |
| 23:38.41 | DocScrutinizer | or maybe even in rapuyama |
| 23:39.19 | DocScrutinizer | though the ds of the gps chip itself suggests there's not much in rapuyama done for calculation of GPS |
| 23:39.27 | *** join/#maemo ArkanoiD (~ark@178.176.192.47) |
| 23:39.39 | DocScrutinizer | posiibly A(gps) |
| 23:40.02 | SpeedEvil | ds? |
| 23:40.08 | SpeedEvil | I diddn't see one. |
| 23:40.20 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, poroduct blabla sheet |
| 23:40.33 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 23:40.50 | SpeedEvil | I don't think I saw that. |
| 23:41.09 | DocScrutinizer | "low workload, siutable even for weak AP systems" bla bla bla |
| 23:42.08 | *** join/#maemo TiagoTiago_ (~TiagoTiag@201-42-84-164.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 23:42.37 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 23:43.20 | TiagoTiago_ | damn router keeps crashing and needing to be booted :( |
| 23:43.26 | DocScrutinizer | http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbugencontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12028&contentId=4636 |
| 23:44.32 | DocScrutinizer | http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12776&contentId=30978 |
| 23:46.39 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, on re-reading it, it's not exactly mentioned |
| 23:47.17 | TiagoTiago_ | I wonder if it's actually someone attacking it from the internet |
| 23:50.52 | TiagoTiago_ | did i miss anything while my connection was down? |
| 23:50.59 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@ibmaus65.lnk.telstra.net) |
| 23:51.41 | DocScrutinizer | well, it says 'one-chip-solution to bring GPS to any cellphone" (OWTTE), that makes me think there's no blob on rapuyama |
| 23:52.47 | SpeedEvil | perhaps. |
| 23:52.48 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 23:53.16 | DocScrutinizer | I nevertheless wonder what's that "Software GPS Engine" |
| 23:53.35 | DocScrutinizer | block sitting outside everything |
| 23:54.22 | DocScrutinizer | http://focus.ti.com/pdfs/wtbu/ti_navilink_5.pdf |
| 23:54.36 | SpeedEvil | schematic says I2C |
| 23:54.44 | SpeedEvil | It's like neo1973 I guess |
| 23:54.54 | SpeedEvil | and n810 |
| 23:55.17 | SpeedEvil | the GPS chip is a softradio. It handles all of the hard-realtime, and correlators. |
| 23:55.23 | SpeedEvil | And RF frontendy stuff. |
| 23:55.52 | SpeedEvil | The CPU is left with position calculation, and configuring all of these to scan for sats based on 'stuff'. |
| 23:56.29 | SpeedEvil | The GPS chip has no idea at all of position, only PRNs and relative samplerates |
| 23:56.44 | DocScrutinizer | maybe, maybe not. IIRC it's same chip like in N810 though, and there we know about the driver being a big bad blob, no? |
| 23:56.54 | TiagoTiago_ | soft radio? does this means programs can use it for other purposes? |
| 23:57.24 | DocScrutinizer | yes, like creating a general spectrogram of GPS band |
| 23:57.30 | TiagoTiago_ | nice |
| 23:57.38 | DocScrutinizer | maybe |
| 23:57.45 | TiagoTiago_ | do want |
| 23:58.07 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago_: No. |
| 23:58.24 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago_: It means in principle it can be flexibly configured to recieve GPS signals. |
| 23:58.30 | DocScrutinizer | it's as much a softradio as is the radio inside the broadcom BT chip |
| 23:58.34 | SpeedEvil | TiagoTiago_: but you can't do this, as it's connected to teh cellmo |
| 23:58.46 | TiagoTiago_ | :( |
| 23:59.42 | DocScrutinizer | exactly, and I guess that's why AGPS over WLAN doesn't fly. Not even if your position is guessed correctly to the .001 lon/lat |
