IRC log for #maemo on 20100801

00:00.09lcukfor similar, i would try something like maintaining bacup of the apt cache folder thingy
00:00.19lcukfor all the debs it gets and uses
00:00.29lcukand then do a dpkg -i *.deb
00:00.57lcukbut its just easier to restore from backup
00:01.10lcukand let ham do what it needs with the installed apps list
00:03.03psycho_oreoslcuk, hmm interesting, never actually bothered with that sort of method but its kinda like a habit routine that you have to get into
00:05.25psycho_oreos*sigh* for now I'll just have to bear with it :) bear and grin
00:05.55psycho_oreosthere should be another way to counteract it, I suppose using diff and then extracting out the user installed packages
00:06.35lcukbut you need the deps too, so the cache would be simplest for that
00:06.39lcukanyway, gnite \o
00:06.49psycho_oreosheh, nite
00:07.00psycho_oreosfacepalms self
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00:16.59DocAvalanchehttp://www.thesistersofmercy.com/misc/deardok.htm
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01:01.18th3_4zaradojulian assange
01:01.24th3_4zaradogod? bless tis man ...he is a modern day hero
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02:14.44luke-jrwow
02:14.57luke-jrpicking up my N810 after ~2 weeks, I really miss its size
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02:15.21SpeedEvil:/
02:15.24SpeedEvilyeah
02:15.38SpeedEvilthere are times I'd like a 20% larger thingy.
02:15.59SpeedEvilBut then, when I realise how I can easily fit it in small cases, it's not so bad.
02:16.05luke-jrand keyboard
02:16.16luke-jrSpeedEvil: I use my N810's case for N900
02:16.49pekujaI would really like a case that would enable access to the headphone jack
02:17.09pekujalost my CP-321 recently so I'm looking for a new one
02:17.10SpeedEvilI have one, but it's not a great case.
02:17.20luke-jrpekuja: Bluetooth?
02:17.31pekujaluke-jr: no, it's a case
02:17.37SpeedEvilhttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HARD-CRYSTAL-CLEAR-CASE-COVER-SKIN-SHELL-NOKIA-N900-/130412870026?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhonesCasesPouches&hash=item1e5d36798a
02:17.44pekujahttp://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/carrying-and-styling/carrying-cases/nokia-carrying-case-cp-321-for-nokia-n900
02:17.49pekujathe official one
02:17.53pekujapretty lame, I must say
02:18.02pekujaSpeedEvil: ah, that kind of case
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02:19.49luke-jrpekuja: Bluetooth headphones don't need a special case
02:20.09pekujaluke-jr: eh, I'm talking about the N900
02:20.22luke-jrme too
02:20.39pekujaluke-jr: ah, right, sorry
02:20.42pekujaluke-jr: it's late
02:20.45luke-jr…
02:21.03pekujaluke-jr: didn't quite understand what you were saying...
02:21.08pekujaanyways, that's not a bad suggestion
02:21.24luke-jrif you love your wires, you could always drill a hole too
02:21.26luke-jr<.<
02:21.29pekujaalthough I imagine the audio quality isn't too good for music and such
02:21.55luke-jruh?
02:22.06luke-jrdigital Bluetooth quality is going to be better than an analog wire
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02:25.50pekujaI wouldn't be so sure about that
02:26.09pekujathe other problem though is that BT headphones are expensive and require batteries
02:26.21luke-jrI think I got mine for like $10
02:26.25luke-jrincluding a simple charger
02:26.40SpeedEvildecent bluetooth headphones are not $10.
02:26.53pekujaluke-jr: and you think they sound better than regular wired headphones? I doubt that.
02:27.05luke-jrpekuja: honestly, I don't use either
02:27.10luke-jrI doubt I could tell the difference
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02:40.07EdLinpekuja, bluetooth is digital - and compressed, which means that it sounds *worse* than those horrible analog wires. ;-)
02:40.47pekujayeah, basically that's what I understand is that there's so little bandwidth in BT that the sound quality isn't too good
02:41.13EdLinpekuja, they compress it a lot, much more than a typical MP3 or something.
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02:43.40luke-jrEdLin: they do?
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02:48.23Psianyone know why my n900 time is always around 1min fast?
02:48.39Psidoes it get the time from gsm or network timeserver?
02:49.40ham5I wondered that about my sms messages the senders time is always 8minutes fast
02:50.02EdLinPsi, T-Mobile US changed DST several hours wrong recently and all of their phones showed the wrong time and had calendar malfunctions.
02:50.05Psifor me its always 1min fast, i can set it correct but its back 1 min fast when i look at it later
02:50.05ham5my time is updated from my phone carrier
02:50.06luke-jrPsi: I would think GPS
02:50.13SpeedEvilPsi: GSM
02:50.17SpeedEvilluke-jr: not GPS
02:50.26luke-jrSpeedEvil: why trust GSM over GPS?
02:50.35ham5should be the same anyway no?
02:50.41SpeedEvilhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10163
02:50.42povbotBug 10163: GPS does not automatically set time of device.
02:50.43luke-jrham5: obviously not in this case
02:50.45SpeedEvilWho knows
02:50.50luke-jrand what of people w/o GSM?
02:51.05EdLinluke-jr, use wifi to use NTP I guess.
02:51.17SpeedEvilluke-jr: doesn't set it here either with GSM - UK
02:51.25luke-jrEdLin: meh, ntpd doesn't require netwrok
02:51.36luke-jrntpd can pair up with gpsd ☺
02:51.42EdLin:)
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02:52.26sECuREhas anyone managed to compile a more recent g++ version (i need 4.5) and fiddle it into the MADDE cross compilation environment?
02:53.03sECuREi wonder if the MADDE source code you can get from gitorious is supposed to build a working g++ which can be copied into the fremantle 1.2 MADDE
02:53.29luke-jrsECuRE: GCC 4.5 is totally broken on ARM from what I hear
02:53.36sECuREno, it’s not
02:53.44sECuREi can build it outside the tree and compile my stuff just fine
02:53.48luke-jrsECuRE: furthermore, GCC 4.4+ output is not binary compatible with <4.4
02:53.49sECuREbut i want to have it inside MADDE
02:54.02luke-jrsECuRE: I wonder how much testing you've done
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02:54.14sECuREi compiled an application using qt 4.6 and it successfully runs on my n900
02:54.33luke-jrluck, I guess
02:54.45luke-jrI've had good luck with some apps too
02:54.48luke-jrlike strace
02:54.54luke-jrother apps, not so much luck ☹
02:55.00sECuREhum, ok
02:55.13sECuREstill, i want to try replacing the g++ inside my MADDE
02:55.35sECuRE(just copying over the files from the built g++ from toolchain-from-scratch.sh brings errors:
02:56.05sECuREarm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++: error trying to exec 'cc1plus': execvp: No such file or directory
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02:57.02sECuREah, hang on
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02:59.23sECuREah, needed to copy ~/cross-build/arm-long/tools/libexec/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/4.3.3/ since the gcc in the released MADDE is 4.2.1, but the one used in the meego source is newer
02:59.29sECuREnow lets fix the next error
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03:01.49luke-jrassume you need to copy everything, obviously
03:03.37sECuREyeah
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03:08.51sECuREalright, works now :)
03:09.04sECuRElets compile 4.5.0 with the same options and see if i can drop it in, too
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03:10.33DocScrutinizerEdLin: Psi: If you enable "automatic time settings" in date/time in settings, then time is set from GSM. You can install several NTP tools though, to get time from nternet, and I guess you can setup ntpd to sync with GPS time as well
03:11.17SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: set through GSM if your provider supports this. It diddn't work for me
03:11.41DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: obviously that' a prerequisite - yes
03:12.56DocScrutinizerI wonder when maemo is setting RTC
03:15.32DocScrutinizernice, my clocks (sys and RTC) are pretty in sync - and >60s off. And automatic setting is disabled
03:15.48DocScrutinizerso I can check what's going on when enabling it
03:16.44DocScrutinizerwooosh, both on the second accurate
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03:20.37DocScrutinizerpondering about NOT nstalling ntpd, instead prefers a script to check for actual network traffic >0 like every hour or so, and only then use ntpdate to get a sync sneaked in to already active data transmissions
03:22.08DocScrutinizeralternatively start that ntpdate sync on wlan connection up, and stop it on down
03:23.47SpeedEvilntpd uses almost nothinganyway
03:24.11DocScrutinizeryep, but that nothing happens too often and to mindlessly
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03:24.46DocScrutinizerntpd not built for machines with temporary internet connection
03:25.16SpeedEvilyeah
03:25.22DocScrutinizerand for sure not for machines that crank up power hungry 3G on ntpd's packets
03:26.59SpeedEvilI 'never' have 3G active when I care about battery life, so I don't mind about that.
03:27.22DocScrutinizermhm
03:28.19DocScrutinizeranyway doing a ntpdate max once every hour, and only when there's actually some other traffic active, seems a sensible approach
03:29.21DocScrutinizerstarting ntpd in ifup, and stopping it in ifdown the cheap way
03:29.51Jucatohi, does anyone know if the N810 can support 16GB SDHC cards? the official specs say only up to 8GB but I think I've seen someone say (forgot where) that he/she uses a 16GB card
03:30.19DocScrutinizerhmm, probably does
03:30.36DocScrutinizerprobably even supports 32G
03:31.00Jucatoheh ok. I don't think I've seen 32G around here though, so I guess 16GB would be ok. thanks :)
03:31.27DocScrutinizerthey are like 120$
03:31.36JucatoI'm not in the US
03:31.38DocScrutinizerlast time I cheked
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03:33.54Jucatonow if only connecting to computers through USB was reliable and has fast transfer speeds, I can forego needing a separate USB stick for portable stuff ... anyway thanks :)
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03:56.33luke-jrJucato: I'm pretty sure USB networking is faster than SD :p
03:58.13Jucatoluke-jr: I meant that transferring files to/from the SDHC card in the N810 to/from a computer connected through the USB cable isn't as fast as transferring using a USB stick. there's also times (often on a Linux computer) when N810 will use the external memory (SDHC) while connected so the desktop will only "see" the Internal 2G memory
03:58.38Jucatosometimes it's in reverse, sometimes both memories are seen. on Windows it almost always works fine though
03:58.55luke-jr…
03:59.07luke-jror just use scp
04:01.46Jucatoyes, that's what I usually do when I'm at home with my own network. but not when I'm outside. unfortunately, my nokia 5230 is a more reliable "USB stick" :(
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06:43.51Stskeepsmorning andre__
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07:18.13andre__heja Stskeeps
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07:30.45TermanaN900nice way to start the night! just got served a summons for small claims court! luckily its not for me :P
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07:46.17unixSnobhow can a webpage be launched from the commandline?  I tried "browser http://www.wolframalpha.com" and it ignores the argument
07:46.46gobukiuse browser --url <url>
07:46.57unixSnobthanks
07:47.04Ken-YoungunixSnob, You can also do it with a dbus command.
07:47.47unixSnobi tried dbus-monitor to see if I could see how to do it that way, and I didn't see any urls going through
07:48.02gobukilike this: dbus-send --type=method_call --dest com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr /com/nokia/HildonDesktop/AppMgr com.nokia.HildonDesktop.AppMgr.LaunchApplication string:browser
07:48.16Ken-YoungunixSnob, I use it in one of my programs - give me a minute, and I'll dig it out.
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07:48.58unixSnobgobuki: i don't see an URL in there
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07:49.21hamilton5s/an/a/
07:49.51unixSnobhamilton5: your english is wrong
07:50.04gobukiunixSnob: look here http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS#dbus-send-call it's listed under dbus-send-google
07:50.17hamilton5k snob
07:50.27toggles_wlol
07:50.34K0JIbKA:-D
07:51.37gobukis/dbus-send-call/dbus-send-google/
07:52.11unixSnobthanks gobuki
07:52.14Ken-YoungunixSnob, /usr/bin/dbus-send --system --type=method_call  --dest=\"com.nokia.osso_browser\" /com/nokia/osso_browser/request com.nokia.osso_browser.load_url string:\"www.cnn.com\"
07:52.52unixSnobgood to know.. know I can see youtube and flash things when sitting at my desktop
07:53.00unixSnobgnash pretty much sucks
07:53.07unixSnobs/know/now/
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08:22.07crashanddiemorning, Maemo
08:23.28psycho_oreoswho has done USB passthrough with ubuntu 9.04? I'm having can't have dual gateways and for some reason, making default route go to wireless internet fails
08:23.49psycho_oreosI'm having issues such as dual gateways*
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08:25.01hamilton5dual gate ways huh
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08:25.18hamilton5as long as u have the usb networkin enabled for your kernel
08:25.23hamilton5its pretty stright forward
08:25.27hamilton5networking setup
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08:26.08psycho_oreosit is but everytime I ifup usb0 it will drop internet connection from ppp0, because default gw points to usb0 instead of ppp0
08:26.09hamilton5as root ifconfig -a see if you see a usb0 on both
08:26.33psycho_oreoshttp://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking <-- actually I'm loosely following that guide
08:27.00hamilton5so bring up usb0 before ppp0 ?
08:27.14hamilton5or make new route after usb0
08:27.30psycho_oreosyeah but the default gw should only remain as ppp0 not changed to usb0, maybe I can just add extra up lines
08:27.51psycho_oreoshmm there's another issue with that I'm using network-manager to handle with ppp0
08:28.04psycho_oreosI suppose I could give it a try
08:28.36hamilton5word up 4:20 give it a try
08:29.30psycho_oreosheh its 18:28 here (6:28pm)
08:31.40BCMMtalking of networking, does the n900 support any kind of tethering out-of-the-box?
08:31.58mooserwhat is that
08:32.08Venemohi everyone!
08:32.10mooseri have mobile hotspot semi-working
08:32.12hamilton5if you can set it up command line
08:32.28BCMM(i have no idea what the "PC Suite" does on Windows, but i'm surprised there is no NAT in the default kernel, given that tethering is quite a popular feature)
08:32.32hamilton5few apps to use your gsm internet
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08:33.03BCMMi mean, are there any that work with the default kernel, and in general why on earth doesn't the default kernel do NAT?
08:33.04hamilton5hosts are going to start blocking it if it gets to out of control
08:33.12BCMMi mean, do iptables in general
08:33.28hamilton5iptables for just a client... why
08:33.36mooserBCMM: default unit is a very new phone OS and priority is features.  but unlike iphone our community let you do anything with device
08:33.49BCMMoh, i know
08:33.50mooserpriority is NOT features
08:34.19BCMMit just surprises me that iptables isn't in the default kernel for a communications device
08:34.40BCMMit started to bother me when i discovered that fcam doesn't like kernel-power
08:35.15JaffaMorning, all
08:35.20Jaffacrashanddie: yup, got the links
08:35.23Jaffacrashanddie: Thanks
08:35.34crashanddienp, glad I could help
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08:37.00crashanddieJaffa: if there's anything else you need
08:39.33VRe_BCMM: maybe only few consumers need nat or iptables?
08:42.45Corsacfew consumers need nat yes, but filtering I disagree
08:42.56Corsac(though they shouldn't have to use iptables scripts)
08:43.37VRe_why u would need filtering?
08:44.12VRe_do not run servers is simpler solution
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08:47.00VRe_and there is really not other daemons than ssh and http listening openly
08:47.48VRe_and those u have to install yourself, and if u have those u probably want to get to device from outside
08:47.52Corsacyes, but my point is not about known servers, rather than potentially untrusted applications
08:48.11Corsac(and filtering is not only inbound)
08:49.20VRe_if you install untrusted application, those can remove any preset rules so what would be thepoint?
08:50.13Corsacthey could do that at install time, not runtime
08:50.41VRe_they could add daemons, startup scriipts .. what ever
08:50.43Corsacanyway, you think filtering is useless, I disagree, that's all
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08:51.23VRe_only if you can guard the filering@which you can not.. and then you need to guard the guard ..etc.
08:51.37Jaffacrashanddie: I raised bug 11040 too
08:51.38povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11040 Profile list pages get slower and slower to render
08:52.07crashanddieJaffa: yeah, I'm assuming it queries the whole list, rather than using intelligent pagination
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08:52.15Jaffacrashanddie: Indeed
08:54.02fralshmm
08:54.14fralsis it just me.. or is thsi bug empty? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11042
08:54.15povbotBug 11042: MMS
08:55.19crashanddieJaffa: also, I noticed that around 200, the pages stops loading alltogether
08:55.28crashanddieJaffa: which your graph seems to display as well
08:55.34Jaffacrashanddie: Yup
08:56.13crashanddieJaffa: is that code open source?
08:56.20Jaffacrashanddie: Should be
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08:59.04crashanddiecan't seem to find it in http://vcs.maemo.org/svn/maemo2midgard/
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09:01.29crashanddieI love X-Fade's comments on the SVN commits... "Little bastard gave me grief."
09:02.29Jaffacrashanddie: Maybe it's coming from upstream midgard?
09:03.19psycho_oreoshamilton5, thanks :) you solved half the puzzle, the other half was solved by me, which still needs manual override of default gw
09:04.00crashanddieJaffa: nope, it's here all right. Found the display page: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/midgard-data/style/maemo2009/profile/show-list-item.php?root=maemo2midgard&view=markup
09:04.13Jaffacrashanddie: http://www.google.com/search?q=org_openpsa_qbpager+-inurl%3Amaemo.org%2Fprofile+-inurl%3Agreywolves.org&btnG=Search&hl=en&sa=2 is helpful too
09:04.33Jaffacrashanddie: http://trac.midgard-project.org/browser/trunk/midgardmvc/org_openpsa_qbpager
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09:08.04crashanddieJaffa: yeah, but from what I can tell that's just the pager module
09:08.11crashanddieJaffa: doesn't actually do any user-querying
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09:10.55crashanddieX-Fade: why the hell aren't you working on sundays, eh?
09:12.21Stskeepscos he works enough during the week? :P
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09:20.12Stskeeps\
09:21.29Corsac/
09:22.06TermanaN900your sheild is no match for me
09:22.10TermanaN900pew pew pew
09:22.13TermanaN900:P
09:23.10kerio|
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09:23.23kerio(look mom! no virtual kbd!)
09:23.25Corsac−
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09:24.14kerio##/{
09:24.19keriom[
09:24.24keriohah
09:24.35keriocatches shots and sends them back
09:24.45kerio(that m is a spring)
09:30.23TermanaN900kerio, looks more like perl
09:30.26TermanaN900:D
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09:57.22alteregoDoes the iPhone web browser support multiple windows or tabs?
09:59.21Venemoalterego: this is probably a bad place to ask :P
10:00.29psycho_oreosthere's always ##apple
10:00.30alteregoWell, I don't want to go into #iphone as I'd probably get caught in the Steve Jobs distortion field.
10:00.39TermanaN900alterego, yes. tabs-kind of thing
10:01.05alteregookay, that's cool
10:01.37TermanaN900alterego, think, webOS cards or MeeGo (handset) windows
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10:01.48jacekowskibut it looks like it reloads them when you switch
10:01.59jacekowskiso you have 2 or 3 tabs open
10:02.11jacekowskii think it's just 2
10:02.17jacekowskiand then next tabs are fake tabs
10:02.34TermanaN900jacekowski, indication it is still a POS :) :P
10:02.34alteregoInteresting, presumably lack of resources.
10:03.52alteregoI wonder if that's the same on the iPad
10:04.35psycho_oreosthink ipad has less RAM available
10:04.49psycho_oreoserr less RAM available compared to iphone 4
10:05.35alteregoWell, the iPad is a 3GS generation device.
10:06.00alteregoI'm sure the iPad (4) will be amazing, with it's cool sleek external antenna design :)
10:06.03psycho_oreosmore like enlarged *snickers*
10:06.22alteregoAnd un-ergonomic styling.
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10:08.35psycho_oreosand steve jobs will be up there again making stories up.. or the media will put words in his mouth.. no two stories agree with each other as we all know what jobs is like anyway
10:08.51psycho_oreoshe'll remain frail but continuing to maintain power from his death bed *ducks*
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10:10.28TermanaN900psycho_oreos, jobs is supposed to be god, not the godfather or something :P
10:11.16psycho_oreosTermanaN900, hardly any different to me.. he probably plays multiple roles
10:12.38TermanaN900psycho_oreos, including The Leacher
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10:15.03psycho_oreosTermanaN900, leacher?
10:15.44*** join/#maemo Dmitrys (~dmitrys@dmitrys.net)
10:16.35TermanaN900psycho_oreos, well i mean, they take a lot of open source and either a) license major changes differently or b) change and keep propriatary (if the license allows)
10:17.05TermanaN900so, i think its fair to say Jobs and Co. are leachers off of open source
10:17.18psycho_oreosTermanaN900, I define that as code thief :) but that's no different to gates/ballmer
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10:18.05crashanddieJaffa: wasn't able to find anything interesting for the user list, will have to ask someone who worked on the code previously
10:18.10TermanaN900psycho_oreos, does it look like im defending them either? :P
10:18.44psycho_oreosmakes me think back to that documentary, pirates of the silicon valley.."Good artists copy, great artists steal" - picasso
10:18.57crashanddieTermanaN900: you're always playing the devil's advocate, so, "Yes" is my answer.
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10:19.26Corsacpsycho_oreos: I'm not exactly sure Picasso was thinking about source code though
10:19.27psycho_oreosTermanaN900, nope but that's good :) mac fans don't mix well with linux fans
10:19.28crashanddiepsycho_oreos: why do you quote a documentary that quotes a painter rather than quoting the painter directly?
10:19.38crashanddiepsycho_oreos: wtf?
10:19.51crashanddiepsycho_oreos: I'm a mac fan, also a thorough linux fan
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10:20.17Dmitrys... hello, and I am a PC =)
10:20.26psycho_oreosCorsac, no but you can treat it as an analogy rather than a direct comparison
10:20.27Corsaccrashanddie: no you're not, you _have_ to choose!
10:20.47TermanaN900Dmitrys, :P
10:20.47psycho_oreoscrashanddie, because the quote doesn't belong to me :)
10:20.48crashanddieCorsac: NOOOOOOOOOOOO
10:20.49Corsacpsycho_oreos: I was kinda ironic, too
10:21.01Dmitrysgentlemen, wtf you're talking about again and again? =)
10:21.07psycho_oreosCorsac, well I fell through :P
10:21.27crashanddieDmitrys: as usual, some idiot is talking about copyright, and somehow managed to include Apple in the discussion.
10:21.29psycho_oreoscrashanddie, there are parts where I'm sure you will come to terms in dispute :)
10:22.01Dmitrysomg... it's escalading again =(
10:22.29psycho_oreosand the person who refers to the other person as an idiot missed what was said :p
10:22.31Dmitrysc'mon people... just stop it... useless =)
10:22.34crashanddiepsycho_oreos: ok, I'll bite. "Linux is nice when you're a student and have no money and all, but OSX is just when you're an adult, and can't be bothered to recompile your kernel ever two weeks"
10:22.52crashanddie</tongue_in_cheek>
10:23.09Dmitryscrashanddie that's right =)
10:23.14psycho_oreoscrashanddie, I can't see how maemo was designed to make the user/owner compile their kernels? elaborate?
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10:23.33crashanddiedid I say Maemo?
10:23.42MohammadAG51did I hear Mac?
10:24.03DmitrysMohammadAG51 what about particular Mac?
10:24.13MohammadAG51mac fans
10:24.15psycho_oreosand yes maybe apple's products are nice but I'd hate to be controlled.. the lack of freedom on iphone for example is apparent
10:24.16crashanddieMohammadAG51: Seth MacFarlane?
10:24.16Dmitrysppl are talking about differences
10:24.25MohammadAG51crashanddie, that's the one, ty
10:24.30psycho_oreosno you didn't say a maemo but you're trying to stereotype no?
10:24.38Dmitrysbetweeen god sake mac and linux
10:24.55MohammadAG51they both pwn windows, EOF
10:25.00Dmitrys))))))))
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10:25.28crashanddiepsycho_oreos: yes, "tongue in cheek" should've warned you about the sarcasm in my comment ;)
10:25.46crashanddiepsycho_oreos: now get off your high horses and go troll somewhere else
10:25.47kerioos x is a really nice desktop OS
10:25.53psycho_oreossighs
10:25.56kerioprobably better than foobuntu
10:26.05Dmitrysheeey! maemo is not ubuntu... it's not a DESKTOPPY linukz =)
10:26.08psycho_oreoscrashanddie, since when was I trolling?
10:26.16keriofor servers or embedded systems... linux ftfw
10:26.20MohammadAG51since the globe went flat
10:26.23crashanddiekerio: if only the updates could be less than 5Gigs :P
10:26.57crashanddiekerio: the software update app is yelling at me for the past couple weeks because I don't have enough space on the HD so it can update the system :P
10:27.01keriocrashanddie: yeah :( i'm on a crappy connection atm, cba to download stuff for 6 hours
10:27.42alteregoI use my phobe get about 2.5Mb
10:27.49crashanddiekinda reminds of maemo in a way :P "Not enough free space available to update" :P
10:27.52Dmitrysallright! what about meego? what is the current stage of adaptation for n900?
10:28.01alterego15 minutes for an average software update on ubuntu
10:28.04MohammadAG51#meego
10:28.05kerioDmitrys: "not much"
10:28.12kerioalterego: regular updates, sure
10:28.14Dmitrysstill useless?
10:28.17MohammadAG51#meego
10:28.20crashanddiealterego: well, again, depends of the network
10:28.31keriothe Enterprise solution is to release bigass updates in a pack
10:28.35psycho_oreosnice, I'll keep my eye in that channel
10:28.40DmitrysMohammadAG51 thank you mr. Mohammad - I am already there...
10:28.42alteregokerio: I did a clean install and update yesterday, 20 minutes using my N900
10:28.56MohammadAG51Dmitrys, then ask there :)
10:29.02crashanddiealterego: I can give you the address of a luxury hotel in Brisbane where updating a fresh install of ubuntu (one of my vm images) took over 2 weeks :D
10:29.05kerioand we all know that's the Only True Way
10:29.06alteregoI'm quite lucky, I've got good 3G connection here.
10:29.19DmitrysMohammadAG51 no diff btw meego and maemo at the moment
10:29.24alteregocrashanddie: you were there for two weeks? :)
10:29.25Termanacrashanddie, OS X is lovely. I was stuck on 10.5.6 on an install, too old to get Safari 4. But it let me update iTunes. But I then couldn't access the store AT ALL - I needed to update Safari for that
10:29.27TermanaCatch 22
10:29.30crashanddieDmitrys: wait, what?
10:29.31DmitrysMohammadAG51 this is the way it lives
10:29.37MohammadAG51uhuh
10:29.50crashanddieTermana: ouch
10:30.11Dmitryscrashanddie i see no difference excluding UI
10:30.21MohammadAG51LOL
10:30.24TermanaDmitrys, lol what?
10:30.25Dmitrys=)
10:30.41crashanddieDmitrys: you do realise that maemo is based off debian, and meego is well... not?
10:30.45TermanaSomeone tell me he is kidding
10:30.50TermanaHe is kidding right?
10:30.53MohammadAG51Termana, he isn't
10:31.01Termanadies
10:31.02valdyntrolling
10:31.04valdynblind
10:31.04Dmitryssry ppl! I meant purpose!
10:31.10MohammadAG51kill -9s Termana
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10:31.25crashanddieMohammadAG51: oh noes, you killed 9 seconds off Termana's life!
10:31.28crashanddieYou bastard!
10:31.31keriomeego personal setup:
10:31.34Dmitrysc'mon! =)
10:31.37kerio1) yum install apt4rpm
10:31.41MohammadAG51crashanddie, no, I used kill -9 :P
10:31.44kerio2) apt-get remove yum
10:31.50crashanddieMohammadAG51: no, you used -9s
10:31.57TermanaMohammadAG51, shouldn't -9 kill my parent processes as well. What did they ever do to you!? :P
10:32.03MohammadAG51crashanddie, it was used as a verb :P
10:32.21crashanddieMohammadAG51: you're going to be used as a verb in the past tense if you keep going like this :P
10:32.25alteregoI could really do with removing long keypress in favour key repeat ...
10:32.32MohammadAG51crashanddie, cool
10:32.38alteregoBackspace is a pain-in-the-ass
10:32.38kerioalterego: you can
10:32.47MohammadAG51gconf
10:32.49alteregokerio: I presumed so :P
10:32.51keriothere's a gconf setting
10:32.54Corsacalterego: a space in the back?
10:33.02alteregoOh great, you got the path?
10:33.06kerioi'd also like to remove sticky mod keys
10:33.11crashanddie"So, what happened to that troll in #maemo the other day?" "He was MohammadAG'd" "Oh, ouch, that's gotta hurt".
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10:33.31Termanalol
10:33.45crashanddieDamn I'm bored
10:33.45alteregoHeh
10:33.51MohammadAG51Noticed that
10:34.03MohammadAG51get off your arse and sudo make me a driver
10:34.12crashanddienha, can't really dev
10:34.20MohammadAG51I used sudo :(
10:34.26crashanddieI hurt my back the other day, I have to sit in the couch
10:34.48crashanddieand dev'ing with only one 13" screen is a pita
10:35.03TermanaMohammadAG51, try sudo gainroot ; sudo make me a driver
10:35.08Termana:P
10:35.12Termanaerr
10:35.18Termanawithout the second sudo
10:35.22keriosudo sudo sudo make me a driver
10:35.22crashanddieTermana: you're sudo'ing from root? :P
10:35.26MohammadAG51Termana, no tty, I can't use the spawned shell
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10:35.58crashanddieMohammadAG51: can you spawn hell?
10:36.08Termanacrashanddie, just making absolutely sure I'm executing as root!!!111!!
10:36.14MohammadAG51crashanddie, no, but I can have you spawned in it :P
10:36.25MohammadAG51Termana, rm -rf /usr
10:36.32crashanddieI'm already spawned. I though re-spawning was impossible?
10:36.35crashanddie+t
10:36.49MohammadAG51crashanddie, impossible is nothing®
10:36.52*** join/#maemo misc-- (~misc@60-241-66-237.static.tpgi.com.au)
10:37.27misc--hi all, is there a way I can make an application start automatically as soon as the wireless connection goes down?
10:37.56MohammadAG51Most probably, using a daemon
10:37.59Termanacreate a daemon that listens on dbus?
10:38.21alterego/etc/network/ifdown.d
10:38.21misc--ah right, it's all controlled through there is it
10:38.27misc--ahh
10:38.31alteregoOr whereever it is
10:39.01crashanddiemisc--: there's also the ICD2 framework (or whatever it's called)
10:39.01misc--yes, that could be the go... thanks for that, I'll check it out
10:39.42crashanddiemisc--: which can give you hooks on specific actions (specific wifi connection with specific BSSID is connected, goes down), 3g switches to wifi, etc
10:39.46misc--oh ok, I haven't heard of that but thanks =) I'll take a look if the if-down.d doesn't work
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10:39.57misc--ohhhh that sounds exactly what I'm after
10:40.57misc--actually, I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but sometimes when on 3g, it just does not connect to wireless automatically, even though I've set it up in the settings. Most times it works, but about 30% of the time it does not connect to wireless automatically
10:41.10misc--(using titan's kernel, if that's relevant)
10:41.58MohammadAG51crashanddie, 3G to wifi?
10:42.07MohammadAG51crashanddie, why don't most apps use that
10:42.15MohammadAG51meh, why am I asking you
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10:43.23*** join/#maemo Yoann512 (~yoann512@nyx.sheraf.net)
10:43.39crashanddiemisc--: I think it has to do with how many apps are actually attempting to use new connections
10:43.54crashanddiemisc--: if an app attempts to create new connections, it might search periodically for wifi in vicinity
10:44.14crashanddiemisc--: if however, the apps use the same tube, so the internet connection daemon doesn't get called, no search.
10:44.36crashanddieat least, that's how I'd have coded it :P
10:45.03Termanacrashanddie, even though that sound kind of flawed, you still admit thats how you would have coded it? :P
10:45.06misc--ahhh, so current connections means that wifi searcher doesn't get called because there are still active connections, where as new connections would force a wifi search to be done, or something?
10:45.45crashanddieTermana: it's not flawed. It's the next best option to save battery life (as compared to searching for wifi every 10 minutes)
10:46.13crashanddieTermana: and yeah, I usually tend to code what I'm asked, even though I'm rarely the one who decides what it should do :)
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10:46.41Termanabattery life? Who needs that
10:46.44crashanddiemisc--: that's how I'd explain the lack of "wifi detection" on a regular basis
10:46.47Termana:D
10:47.11TermanaSeriously though, is it just me or do the FM daemons suck the life out of your battery?
10:47.44Stskeepsfm usually does
10:47.44TermanaI installed one of the FM players and noticed my battery life went down. It greatly improved when i uninstalled it
10:47.54misc--crashanddie: ok that's interesting. I don't care that there are existing connections on 3g, I would just prefer it to switch right away (or at least whenever the 5 minute search happens). Oh well
10:49.03crashanddieMohammadAG51: did you see the light painting warfare video?
10:49.12crashanddieMohammadAG51: you have access to youtube, and all that, yeah?
10:49.15crashanddie:P
10:49.34Termana:P
10:49.50TermanaYouTube is owned by the big bad Google, so MohammadAG51 doesn't go there
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10:50.43crashanddiehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SWfPoITlP8
10:50.46crashanddieexcellent video
10:50.56alteregoHrm, can't find the gconf key.
10:51.10alteregoOr at leaset the one I toggled didn't seem to do it.
10:52.23*** join/#maemo MacMiller (~marper@201.164.206.200)
10:52.45alteregolcuk: ping
10:53.07lcukhey alterego
10:53.21lcukcrashanddie, thats like the light games you played around your bike
10:53.30crashanddielcuk: yup
10:53.33alteregoI was just thinking, you said you split up your YUV into a planar representation
10:53.42crashanddielcuk: except I did maybe 10 pictures worth of it, they did 500 pictures, with a story :P
10:53.55lcukyeah crashanddie that looks awesome
10:54.19alteregoDon't you just need the intensity? You shouldn't have needed colour for your inverse AR stjff :)
10:54.25alteregoI wouldn't have thought.
10:54.53lcukalterego, i grabbed the one I wrote for the n810 and I still have to use the planar to render the live camera image
10:55.02lcukso the conversion is full color
10:55.12alteregoAh, fair nuff
10:55.32lcuk(and on the n810 even included a color muting routine which reduced intensity of the UV planes by half to remove most of the grainyness
10:56.00alteregoI was just wondering, as it'd make things a lot quicker if you didn't use UV :)
10:56.10lcukyeah but now I am glad I did
10:56.22alteregoHeh
10:56.23*** join/#maemo MiskaX (a55vdng5uo@rankki.sonarnerd.net)
10:56.27lcukbecause the point sourcesidentified can now be checked for hue
10:56.36lcukand I can make sure I only pick out certain bright spots
10:56.37alteregoRight
10:56.42lcukie if I want red lights or something
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10:59.34crashanddielcuk: another one from the same guy which is pretty cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=031Dshcnso4
11:01.56lcukoh cool crashanddie
11:02.27lcukmy mum would love that, she would sit in bedrom shooting into the garden just to fill it with flowers
11:02.32*** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1)
11:02.55DassuAny YouTube Client for N900 that still works?
11:02.58TermanaI can fap to this
11:03.01Termana:P Kidding
11:03.09alteregoDassu: microb?
11:03.18*** join/#maemo Vanadis (~Vanadis@80-218-11-57.dclient.hispeed.ch)
11:03.18TermanaDassu, zutube (or w/e) doesn't work?
11:03.20lcukDassu, native browser works for me
11:03.26Termanazoutube*
11:04.01*** join/#maemo Wamanuz (~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com)
11:07.45DassuTermana: Zoutube doesn't work and hasn't worked for few months. The fix was posted but it was never implemented
11:08.00DassuImho microb is way too slow.
11:08.14TermanaYou know what to do!
11:08.17TermanaOVERCLOCK!
11:08.18Termanaruns
11:08.23Dassu....
11:08.23Termana:P lol
11:08.26alteregoDassu: too slow for what?
11:08.35alteregoIt plays you tube videos finel
11:08.36TermanaDassu, its a joke
11:08.38DassuToo slow for that type of lash
11:08.39Dassu*flash
11:08.44alteregoAs long as you buffer them first
11:08.50*** join/#maemo MiskaX (~jussi@rankki.sonarnerd.net)
11:09.18Dassualterego: yes, but it takes time to load and meanwhile the whole device seems to be running at 100%
11:10.09DassuI even use minitube on my Linux laptop because of the flash
11:10.39MohammadAG51flash sucks tbh
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11:11.00*** part/#maemo alicemirror (~Alicemirr@87.253.117.195)
11:11.01MohammadAG51it 100%s my 1.7GHz (signle core) laptop
11:11.14MohammadAG51barely touches my i5
11:13.06TermanaIt locks up my poor EEE PC :P
11:13.20liorihello... if I started writing an app for maemo now, should I choose gtk or qt?
11:13.27nid0qt
11:13.27alteregoFlash is somewhat of a resource hog.
11:13.27Termanaliori, qt
11:13.45TermanaAny browser with HTML5 video support on the N900 atm?
11:13.49alteregoBut what are the current alternatives. We're a slave to idiot web designers aswell :)
11:13.49MohammadAG51alterego, somewhat?
11:14.06TermanaI guess the nightly Chrome builds could be used with HTML5 video on the n900?
11:14.15liori...which leads to another question: is there a pleasant language which works on maemo and has good bindings to qt?
11:14.25MohammadAG51Termana, wouldn't flash be faster?
11:14.26nid0current alternatives == silverlight
11:14.33MohammadAG51chrome is kind of a proof of concept
11:14.38DassuTermana: MicroB but only for OGG theora
11:14.39liori(c++ is not pleasant, python lacks static typing)
11:15.06lcukliori, well what language would suit you
11:15.22MohammadAG51PyC
11:15.23liorianything high-level with static typing
11:15.25MohammadAG51:p
11:15.26lcukbecause I don't now of many things that interop with C++ nicely
11:15.43lcuksometimes missed ActiveX
11:15.50MohammadAG51o_O
11:16.00MohammadAG51isn't that shit well.. shit?
11:16.21liorisomething like c# would be good enough for me... except that it doesn't like qt and mono is not ported to maemo
11:16.28lcukno, technically ActiveX allowed interop from many places
11:16.52lcukliori, there are mono builds available
11:16.59*** join/#maemo Termana_ (~bradley@123-3-69-149.static.dsl.dodo.com.au)
11:17.02lcukbut to use them you need to add new devkits into scratchbox
11:17.16*** join/#maemo MiskaX (b42xidnmcd@rankki.sonarnerd.net)
11:17.24Termana_Gah these disconnects aren't even funny anymore
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11:30.05lcukponders going back to bed
11:30.49*** join/#maemo user__ (~user@ip-109-41-201-13.web.vodafone.de)
11:33.04crashanddieis bored
11:34.40MohammadAG51same
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11:35.21TermanaI have a mission for everyone bored, if you choose to accept it
11:35.46lcukplays with gestures
11:35.55TermanaYour mission: Find a brick, and take a photo of you putting it (lightly) against your N900, deliver the picture to me.
11:36.12TermanaThis message will self destruct... when the logs are purged
11:36.17MohammadAG51hmm, I have a better challenge
11:36.31lcukTermana, thats crap and would need a second device to take photo with
11:36.39MohammadAG51get a dozen of bricks, then tape yourself throwing them at Termana
11:37.06Pforcefuuu what should i do next for DropN900 :
11:37.08Pforce:P
11:37.10Pforceupload sync i suppose
11:37.29TermanaMohammadAG51 seems intent on doing malicious damage to me tonight :P
11:37.30MohammadAG51a code merge with flyN900
11:37.52MohammadAG51Termana, I don't do *** an*l :P
11:37.53Pforce:)
11:38.07MohammadAG51wonders why he censored that
11:38.09TermanaMohammadAG51, I didn't mean to participate in NITdroid honestly! Please dont hurt me
11:38.10PforceThrowBox
11:38.19Termana:P
11:39.12lbtLMAO .... watching the F1... and they're playing "Fernando" over the Massa/Ferrari section...."If I had to do the same again, I would my firend" :D
11:39.19lcukTermana, http://liqbase.net/liq.20100801_001.termana.jpg
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11:40.15Termanalcuk, do you 'shop that with MS Paint?
11:40.15*** join/#maemo Funnyface (~user5330@66.84-49-158.nextgentel.com)
11:40.16lcukyes, I am THAT bored
11:40.19Termanadid*
11:40.22lcuk<PROTECTED>
11:40.23Termana:P
11:40.52lcukhas been playing with gestures and using liqcalc as the test unit
11:40.53Termanalcuk, thanks, now I can tell the trolls on tmo that say their device is bricked, that NO it isn't. THIS N900 is bricked
11:41.20lcukits not though, its on
11:41.46Termanalcuk, would you rather me get you to smash a brick into your n900? :P
11:42.12lcuknahh i need them to play with
11:42.16TermanaNo? Then you will say NOTHING of the sort again!
11:42.18Termana:P
11:42.26lcukTermana, http://github.com/lcuk/liqcalc/raw/master/liqcalc.screenshot.png
11:42.40lcukwhich part of that needs documentation
11:42.55Termanalcuk, none of it.
11:43.00TermanaSOLAR CELL dims the screen
11:43.07lcuk:D
11:43.13lcukindeed it does!
11:43.29Termanalcuk, sorry - I was here when you described it before :P
11:43.32Termanalol
11:43.34lcukits the first thing I think that NEEDS capacitive
11:43.50lcukso I can proportionally dim it based on how much its covered
11:44.04lcukat the moment its just on press
11:44.07Termanalcuk, I don't... think... capacitive can do that?
11:44.11TermanaCan it?
11:44.12Termana:P
11:44.24lcukyeah sure, you get a splodge
11:44.31lcukand can work out size of the splodge
11:45.11TermanaOh I'm sorry "how much its covered", I thought you said "how hard its covered", as in how hard its pressed :P
11:45.27lcukTermana, you only have to block out the incoming light
11:45.28lcuk:P
11:45.35lcuknot press it into the ground
11:45.43Termanalcuk, :P
11:46.18Termanalcuk, it would be more life like that way - any calculator I've used that has one you need to press down a bit before it does anything
11:46.41Termanalcuk, or maybe I was using liqcalc...
11:46.42lcukwell thats fine, it does that now
11:46.43Termana:D
11:47.20lcukputs optification into libliqbase and re merges the portrait branch
11:48.37lcukoh cripes - last night i started some minor mods and just left the editor open :(
11:48.43lcukshould revert and code again
11:50.11lcukdislikes multiple desktops on ubuntu for this reason
11:50.16lcukyou "lose" windows too easily
11:50.29alteregoMy laptop got a bit of water damage last night. Now it wont turn on.
11:50.32alteregoscht ...
11:50.52SpeedEvilalterego: Disconnect battery and any AC. Ideally at the moment it happens.
11:50.58SpeedEvilalterego: Is it a lot of water?
11:51.01Termanaalterego, DocScrutinizer thinks you should put it in rice
11:51.02Termana:D
11:51.07alteregoNot too much
11:51.16SpeedEvilalterego: how clean water?
11:51.24alteregoI've taken panels off and am leaving it some time to dry
11:51.33alteregoIt was clean water yeah
11:52.08SpeedEvilRemove hard drive, place in oven at 60C to dry for a day.
11:52.25alteregoMight download the maintanance manual and see about taking it apart properly and drying it manually
11:52.26SpeedEvilIf you're sure it was clean water.
11:52.33alteregoThen leaving it a bit longer
11:52.34Termanalcuk, liqbase-playground makes my n900 use more power than the usb charger is providing
11:52.38SpeedEvilyeah - that's another good idea.
11:52.42Termanalcuk, stop draining my battery :P
11:52.48alteregoYeah, I only drink water really ;)
11:52.52lcukTermana, what are you running on the playground?
11:52.53DocScrutinizer51Termana: fuck I never said that
11:53.12lcuksince using more power is something anything can do, but most of the cells are idle unless used
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11:53.31TermanaDocScrutinizer51, specifically why I said it old chap - in fact you said it makes no difference
11:54.01Termanalcuk, I used the torch when the notification came up, so thats probably what it was
11:54.30lcukdamn!  yeah the torch using so much stuff :| not it sits totally idle with a blank screen
11:54.43lcukso whatever is draining power is not that
11:55.02lcukwhats top saying
11:55.18Termanalcuk, also, liqbase-playground installed something called onedotzero - it crashed before starting
11:55.39lcukyes the packages are a bit stale in -devel
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11:55.45lcukhas not pushed recently
11:55.56lcukbut i replaced one of the odz dependencies there
11:56.18lcukwill try to update today
11:56.41Termanalcuk, doesn't seem to be doing too much in top - though the notification didn't come up again either
11:57.30lcukthe version in -devel still has lots of green flashes around doesnt it
11:57.41Termanalcuk, yep
11:58.09lcukis pleased to have removed those
11:58.45Termanalcuk, also, the postcard app, when I click to draw, it comes up with a credits screen, but when it goes back to the selection screen, it shows that I have been able to draw on the postcard, hidden under the credits screen obviously
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12:01.20lcukTermana, yeah, fixed
12:01.37lcukare you working from source? i didnt think I had pushed that to -devel yet
12:01.57keriowhat's the front-facing camera for? :/
12:02.02lcuk(thats actually bug #1!) http://github.com/lcuk/libliqbase/issues/issue/1
12:02.03povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1 test - ignore it
12:02.12MohammadAG51lol
12:02.15Termanalcuk, no, working from -devel
12:02.30Termanalcuk, there you go, the bot thinks you should ignore it :P
12:02.32lcukhmm i didnt think the cover screen had gotten there, ahh well
12:02.49*** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie)
12:02.50lcukthats fine it has been dealt with and moved past quickly :P
12:03.05lcukhttp://github.com/lcuk/libliqbase/commit/d3920198103d6e35f3c020f8901ea4c28d4d5200
12:03.33crashanddieheh, dneary has made slashdot :D
12:04.14TermanaI think chrome is having a heart attack on me, keeps force closing pages for no reason
12:04.19Termanacrashanddie, link?
12:04.38crashanddiehttp://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/08/01/0326208/First-GNOME-Census-Results?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
12:05.01crashanddiethe first two links first words are "Reposted from Neary Consulting" and "Dave Neary..." respectively.
12:07.18TermanaCanonical... I'm a disappoint.
12:07.22Termanauninstalls Ubuntu
12:07.23Termana:P
12:08.25*** join/#maemo wazd (~wazd@188.123.241.73)
12:08.25lcukmorning wazd \o
12:09.40*** join/#maemo Ebzzry (~Ebzzry@122.55.111.14)
12:10.11EbzzryHi! Is it currently possible to send SMS via command line in Maemo 5?
12:10.25TermanaEbzzry, you should be able to do it with dbus
12:10.31Termanasec, I'll find the exact command
12:10.48EbzzryTermana: :)
12:11.54TermanaEbzzry, eh maybe not dbus if you don't want to use python, but if you use pnatd and send the correct AT commands you can send an SMS
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12:12.18*** join/#maemo chittoor (~chittoor@117.204.52.177)
12:12.49EbzzryTermana: Do you happen to have a link to the docs?
12:12.56TermanaAlthough SMS could be done over dbus, I can't figure out the listed script quickly enough to tell you the exact command
12:13.04TermanaEbzzry, http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Send_SMS
12:13.21TermanaThere might be something outside that, I don't know
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12:14.09EbzzryTermana: I'll go and check it out now.
12:17.54*** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B08B896.dip.t-dialin.net)
12:21.26EbzzryTermana: Thanks
12:21.51lcukjust send a posthumous SMS message to mrs lcuk
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12:23.47crashanddielcuk: eh?
12:23.53crashanddielcuk: tracy passed?
12:23.59lcukno
12:24.13Venemohi
12:24.15lcukshe said "i am just getting some dinner in the shopping centre cafe before i die of starvation"
12:24.28lcukso i texted back saying i had already died
12:24.34Venemocan the Maemo SDK be installed on 64-bit Linux?
12:24.57Venemothe installer says "not supported, but you can install it anyways"
12:24.57lcukVenemo, yes but with more gotchas than in 32bit, i believe the documentaiton on maemo.org goes through it
12:25.05Venemowill it actually work?
12:25.20derfIt works just fine for me.
12:26.09Venemowill it work on Fedora?
12:26.22derfGekk if I know.
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12:26.38crashanddieVenemo: I hear Meego works well on Fedora
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12:27.24Venemocrashanddie: perhaps, but I'm interested in the current N900 SDK
12:27.44crashanddies/Fedora/Fedora :P/
12:27.45lcukhe wants an sdk - Venemo what apps are you trying to develop - ie qt only or general gtk/misc apps?
12:28.52crashanddieI'd love to be able to dev natively on OSX for the N900
12:29.20Venemolcuk: I want to be able to compile and run all the apps that people develop with Scratchbox
12:29.29Venemolcuk: I already have Nokia Qt SDK up and running :)
12:29.46lcukVenemo, then if your linux foo is strong yo ushould get it on, but as it says its not supported
12:30.44Venemolcuk: well, I don't really care if it is supported or not, it is enough if it works
12:30.49Venemohm, E: Scratchbox cannot be used under Security Enchanced Linux (SELinux).
12:30.59Venemoit seems that I have to disable SELinux
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12:43.02GNU\caust1chi! my n900 recently shutdown because of low battery while i was installing a package and was stuck in a reboot loop afterwards and it didnt charge
12:43.47GNU\caust1csomeone proposed to put the device into r&d mode, which i did now. it is connected to usb right now and the orange light is on, but it isn't flashing. is the device charging now?
12:44.50GNU\caust1cit isnt rebooting now, it just shows the nokia logo with the maintainence logo
12:46.00VenemoGNU\caust1c: will it not charge if you leave it on the charger?
12:46.29GNU\caust1cit is constantly rebooting on the charger
12:46.39Stskeepsflash the entire thing.
12:46.48GNU\caust1ci need to charge the battery first
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12:47.24knightstalkerHello,I don't know why my fring doesn't have skype add-on anymore,I am sure I was using it some time ago but it doesn't do skype anymore,any reasons?
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12:47.33VenemoGNU\caust1c: yep, I second the reflash opinion
12:47.49GNU\caust1ci hope its charging right now, but i don't know it, thats why i'm asking
12:48.11Venemoknightstalker: noone knows, but it seems that fring no longer supports Skype
12:48.41knightstalkerVenemo,Ahhh,Thats bad,so there are now no standalone skype client?
12:49.06Venemoknightstalker: I dunno. What's wrong with the built-in one?
12:49.22*** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (~timeless@a88-115-8-36.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
12:49.40knightstalkerVenemo,Well,Can I make video calls with it?Or probably use the chat system of it?
12:50.07Venemoknightstalker: yes, both.
12:50.10knightstalkerI know I can make voice calls to a phone(I think),but can I make voice calls to a user?
12:50.29knightstalkerwell then,it seems to be fine :p
12:53.59knightstalkereh,Venemo,How can I access Skype's page in built-in system which I can tell it to make video calls or do text(for voice call I know that I just need to go to phone)
12:54.31*** join/#maemo bouteilledelait (~bouteille@nyx.sheraf.net)
12:55.39wazdlcuk: o/
12:57.30knightstalkerdo chat*
12:59.59knightstalkerhttp://www.fring.com/newsroom/skypeblocksfring.asp
13:00.02knightstalkerSilly skype </3
13:00.37*** join/#maemo Yoann512 (~yoann512@nyx.sheraf.net)
13:01.18FauxFauxknightstalker: Read the Skype response to that.  Silly fring.
13:01.46crashanddiehi wazd
13:02.02knightstalkerFauxFaux,k :p
13:02.05*** join/#maemo TheNewAndy (~andy@58.165.129.95)
13:03.16knightstalkerFauxFaux,so can you also answer me? XD
13:05.16*** join/#maemo MiskaX (mnb7vplg1r@rankki.sonarnerd.net)
13:05.25knightstalker"In this case, however, there is no truth to Fring’s claims that Skype has blocked it. Fring made the decision to remove Skype functionality on its own." XDDDD
13:05.42*** join/#maemo ohwhyme (~ohwhyme@79-77-139-250.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
13:06.53*** join/#maemo HarryS (H@harry.lu)
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13:07.41knightstalkerbut I also beleive skype doesn't work so good in their clients,for an example,its linux client which suck terribly :p
13:07.49crashanddieeh?
13:07.54knightstalkerJup :p
13:08.04crashanddieHave you seen Skype on the N900 mate? Works fine
13:08.10knightstalkerSure I did
13:08.10crashanddieHave you seen Skype on OSX? Works fine.
13:08.15knightstalkerI didn't :p
13:08.17knightstalkerXD
13:08.32knightstalkerWell,They work fine
13:08.40crashanddieI've been using Skype for the past what, 8 years? Never had issues -- maybe sometimes some weird funky routing problems but that's about it
13:08.45knightstalkerbut have you ever seen the linux version?Windows version is way better
13:08.52knightstalkerAnd linux version compared to the windows one is crap
13:09.19crashanddieI don't think so, but meh, you have your opinion and don't wish to change it
13:09.24crashanddieyour first statement made that very clear.
13:09.29knightstalkerIt did :p
13:09.56crashanddieyou use smileys a bit too often mate. This isn't /b/
13:10.56knightstalkerI don't think using smiley does harm users eyes though and I like them
13:11.15jacekowskilinux version isn't crap
13:11.29jacekowskiit just lags a bit after all other version
13:11.36jacekowskivideo calls were added little bit later
13:11.46jacekowskialsa support was added couple years too late
13:11.54*** join/#maemo psycho_oreos (~no@27-33-197-14.tpgi.com.au)
13:12.05jacekowskibut it is same as windows skype was 5 years ago
13:12.09knightstalkerGenerally,They update it ages after they do the windows skype
13:12.21jacekowskibecause nobody cares about linux
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13:12.53knightstalkerjacekowski,and what you are saying is fail
13:13.30knightstalkerI know that windows users are more,but that doesn't mean to ignore linux completely
13:13.31crashanddiehow about you stfu?
13:13.39DocScrutinizerto be honest " :p " hurts my eyes
13:13.49knightstalkerk then
13:13.51knightstalkerI stfu
13:13.55jacekowskithey don't ignore it completly
13:14.03jacekowskithey just leave it little bit behind
13:15.02crashanddiethey have a bloody official client, which does nearly everything the other clients do
13:15.19knightstalkercrashanddie,sorry but,didn't you just end the topic?
13:15.30*** mode/#maemo [+q *!*@shellium/member/KnightStalker] by ChanServ
13:15.34crashanddienow I did
13:16.14DocScrutinizerveto
13:16.25crashanddieyeah, me too, that's unacceptable crashanddie
13:16.30*** mode/#maemo [-q *!*@shellium/member/KnightStalker] by ChanServ
13:16.40jacekowskicrashanddie: little bit waspy today?
13:16.44crashanddiequite
13:16.51crashanddieI'm just too f'in bored
13:17.10*** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B480FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
13:17.14*** join/#maemo jpe (~jpe@d515285F7.access.telenet.be)
13:17.24crashanddienothing to do, weather isn't really nice, nobody available to go see
13:17.25*** join/#maemo mw22 (~chatzilla@cc528723-b.mp1.dr.home.nl)
13:17.56DocScrutinizerhands crashanddie a lolly
13:18.01crashanddieweeeeeeeeeeeeee
13:20.13luke-jrhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWYmEICNgOQ
13:20.23DocScrutinizerstares at cryptic weird -ChanServ- 1 to -ChanServ- 6
13:20.43knightstalkeroO
13:21.09DocScrutinizerX-Fade: clean access list up a bit?
13:22.07DocScrutinizer*!i=coffee@mug.ipv6.c0ffee.org  WTF?!
13:24.06zashOMG, You can write coffe in hex! omfg
13:24.22zash12648430 \o/
13:28.20StskeepsDocScrutinizer: keep in mind the access list is at least 5 years old..
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13:34.42lcukmmmm fake cheese on toast is poor but nutricious substitute for putting the grill on a for a while
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13:41.03DocScrutinizerFAKE cheese?? :-o°°|)
13:41.41luke-jrfreenode_#sane.log:[Friday 02 October 2009] [06:51:46 pm] Join  c0ffee has joined this channel (n=coffee@mug.ipv6.c0ffee.org).
13:41.42luke-jrfwiw
13:42.09DocScrutinizeryeeeha
13:42.50DocScrutinizer<PROTECTED>
13:43.28lcukDocScrutinizer, grated cheese put on regular toast and zapped in the microwave for a bit
13:43.42lcukvs real toasted cheese under the grill
13:43.54DocScrutinizermhm
13:44.25lcukone takes a few seconds, the other needs warming up the oven for a while
13:44.34TermanaSomehow I opened up 2 xchat windows
13:44.35Termana:P
13:44.50DocScrutinizerthought you're talking about those indigestible mockup products like analog cheese, preferably from a can sprayed on the toast
13:45.03knightstalkerTermana,what do you mean?
13:45.03lcuklol nope not quite that bad
13:45.32Termanaknightstalker, I opened up two xchat windows. Pretty much means exactly that :P
13:45.35lcukjake helped me put black pepper on it
13:45.49lcuki think we will be finding random bits of pepper around the kitchen for the next few months
13:45.52DocScrutinizerTermana: so what?
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13:46.01knightstalkerTermana,Then,I don't feel thats weird?
13:46.18TermanaSounds like someone hasn't had their milk yet
13:46.48lcukTermana, at least with opening 2 instances you can be sure of getting an answer if you ask something
13:46.57lcukunless your clone doesnt like the sound of you either :P
13:47.04Termanalcuk, :P
13:47.30*** join/#maemo sevard (sev@unaffiliated/sevard)
13:47.31DocScrutinizerTermana: don't make me angry, you already managed to wake me up by highlighting me with incorrect quotes :-S
13:48.17*** join/#maemo TomaszD (~tom@Maemo/community/contributor/TomaszD)
13:48.39Knight|HW^wow,The sound you use for HighLight must be horrible XD
13:48.43TermanaDocScrutinizer, I'm sorry for waking you. Though I fail to see how you awoke quite a bit after I highlighted you. Do you make it beep at you every 5 minutes when your highlighted or something?
13:48.47Knight|HWwhich managed to wake you up
13:49.09lcukhas bacon as a highlight
13:49.21Termanammm bacon
13:49.40DocScrutinizerTermana: what detail makes you think I woke up *after* you highlighted me?
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13:50.17*** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@252.244.broadband9.iol.cz)
13:50.36TermanaDocScrutinizer, Let me propose this to you. If you don't want to be woken up when people say your name, turn off your speakers.
13:50.47DocScrutinizerTermana: of course I woke up the very moment you posted <Termana> alterego, DocScrutinizer thinks you should put it in rice
13:51.01TermanaDocScrutinizer, not because I highlighted you though
13:51.20Knight|HWI say,highlighting someone isn
13:51.29TermanaBecause I said "thinks you should put it in rice", the highlight didn't wake you
13:51.31Knight|HWisn't a good reason to fight and discuss it for some time XD
13:51.36DocScrutinizerTermana: even worse, you spread lies about me *without* highlighting me :-P
13:51.49*** join/#maemo mzanetti_ (~mzanetti@df01ppp194.eplus-online.de)
13:52.17*** join/#maemo FireStorm| (~paul@94.169.172.210)
13:52.43FireStorm|guys, got a problem, i've cracked my screen so can't use the phone, is there anyway to get contacts off it, unforuntly they are not saved to sim :(
13:53.22DocScrutinizerFireStorm|: use AV-cale and TV
13:53.28DocScrutinizercable even
13:53.41FireStorm|do i need to do anything as i got password on it
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13:54.01Knight|HWyou can use keyboard cant you?
13:54.05FireStorm|so can't use the screen
13:54.25Knight|HWYou just connect it to TV and use the keyboard to input the password
13:54.31FireStorm|or can u use the keyboard to enter in password
13:54.32FireStorm|^^^ :p
13:54.50FireStorm|ur a legend
13:55.04Knight|HWhmm
13:55.18FireStorm|wish i knew that last night
13:55.23FireStorm|phone got into a fight and lost
13:55.24FireStorm|:(
13:55.30Knight|HWomg
13:55.36Knight|HWyou use such phone for a fight XD
13:55.49Knight|HWsuch a big risk
13:55.49FireStorm|no
13:55.52FireStorm|we got into a fight
13:55.56FireStorm|and it was in pocket
13:56.02FireStorm|and we beat matey up
13:56.02Knight|HWaha
13:56.09FireStorm|but the phone suffered a cracked screen ;9
13:56.16FireStorm|that might been the coppers man handlign me to the floor
13:56.20lcukbut you shouldv seen the state of the other guys' phone
13:56.21DocScrutinizerwill cost you ~80 bucks
13:56.37Knight|HWDocScrutinizer,hmm,do ssh in N900 auto runs when the mobile starts up?
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13:56.54SpeedEvilKnight|HW: If you have installed the daemon.
13:56.57DocScrutinizerif you installed ssh server then yes
13:57.05FireStorm|oooo
13:57.07FireStorm|i wonder
13:57.09SpeedEvilopenssh client/server
13:57.11Knight|HWOkay,Thanks,and yeah I meant the ssh server XD
13:57.25FireStorm|lcuk dunno about the other bloke he went off in a ambulance...
13:58.10Knight|HWFireStorm| if you possibly had ssh you could use it to install vnc and then using vnc you could made a visual connection to the phone
13:58.11FireStorm|DocScrutinizer it's insured, spoke to shop n they wann send it off for 2 -4 weeks
13:58.19FireStorm|yer vnc is installed
13:58.21Knight|HWI am pretty sure by then you could enter the password
13:58.23FireStorm|ssh is running
13:58.25FireStorm|but
13:58.30DocScrutinizerKnight|HW: there are weido hacks to stop/start sshd on click of a button/icon/widget
13:58.39FireStorm|i would need to connect it via cable?
13:58.44FireStorm|or over local wireless
13:58.45DocScrutinizerbut you'd know if you got one of those
13:59.23DocScrutinizerFireStorm|: yep
13:59.24Knight|HWFireStorm| I don't know the cable way,maybe ask others but yeah,for wireless,yeah,just connect it to wireless find its local IP via the router and connect to it <3
13:59.27FireStorm|lcuk i couldn't help it that his mega gorgeous bird grabbed my fake cock and stuck it in her mouth :d
13:59.32DocScrutinizerFireStorm|: why don't you use TV??
13:59.34Knight|HWAnd omg,I have HomeWork
13:59.43FireStorm|yer i am going to go via t.v be easier
13:59.54Knight|HWDocScrutinizer,He wonders if he can put pass via keyboard I beleive
14:00.05FireStorm|yer
14:00.06DocScrutinizeryou can
14:00.07lcukFireStorm|, wtf :S not the sort of info that comes out of this discussion
14:00.08Knight|HWI think we can right
14:00.08Knight|HW?
14:00.09TermanaOh jees. How brought t.m.o here?
14:00.09*** join/#maemo Funnyface (~user5330@66.84-49-158.nextgentel.com)
14:00.11TermanaWho*
14:00.12Knight|HWRight XD
14:00.18FireStorm|lol was on a stag do :D
14:00.26FireStorm|and he got jealous and got beat up and i broke phone :(
14:00.27DocScrutinizerTermana: you!
14:00.47FireStorm|but the g1 in other pocket is perfect :(
14:00.55FireStorm|cheap nokia crap?
14:01.00TermanaDocScrutinizer, yes, just like I woke you - all lies I tells ya!
14:01.11Knight|HWSomething else,Do someone knows why N900 hates "|" ?I couldn't manage to find it on keyboard OR use vnc to use that character
14:01.46DocScrutinizerTermana: so finally you know what to get for your serial fixture?
14:02.01TermanaKnight|HW, its not on the keyboard, which explains why you cant find it.
14:02.07technomikeOn searching the net, I have just found out about R&D mode :o
14:02.23TermanaDocScrutinizer, no? Am I suppose to know?
14:02.28Knight|HWTermana,I am not blind ofc...did you just read the main question? .-.
14:02.28DocScrutinizeryep
14:02.29Termanasupposed*
14:03.05DocScrutinizerTermana: http://www.fonefunshop.co.uk/Unlocking/servicecableuniversal1.htm
14:03.15TermanaKnight|HW, the N900 is an inanimate object and doesn't have feelings, therefore I concluded that it doesn't hate it
14:03.29Knight|HWokay thanks for the answer...
14:03.35technomikeGuys, what is the benefit/use of ASTERISK PBX on n900/maemo ??
14:03.36DocScrutinizerplus some minor rework by soldering wires to correct pogopins, maybe
14:03.56luke-jrKnight|HW: because Nokia is too stupid to design a decent keyboard :/
14:03.59technomikeits a VOIP server right? :S why would you need that on a phone. running a pbx server from phone...
14:04.04technomikewhat :S
14:04.27lcukDocScrutinizer, wouldnt that cause problems with pressing the touchscreen and or real keys?
14:04.29luke-jrtechnomike: maybe someone wants voicemail on their phone?
14:04.31DocScrutinizertchan: it's nonsense basically, for those too daft to set up their VoIP clients correctly :-P
14:04.35TermanaKnight|HW, I don't think your very appreciative of my answer
14:04.36SpeedEviltechnomike: For example, you might want to not answer calls directly, but have them go to an answerphone on your phone.
14:04.41TermanaAre you disrespecting me?
14:04.42Termana:P
14:04.43DocScrutinizertechnomike: ^^^
14:04.44luke-jrtechnomike: maybe a hack for IAX2 support
14:04.49DocScrutinizersorry tchan
14:04.56technomikeAhhhhhhhhhh ! Thanks. Understand now. :D
14:05.07SpeedEviltechnomike: Or have that happen for only annoying people in your contacts list.
14:05.17technomikeMight try that out then
14:05.20TermanaDocScrutinizer, hmm, that seems cheaper than anything you said :P
14:05.30DocScrutinizerlcuk: for ts I'd say *IF* it does then just lock screen :-D
14:05.39luke-jrAsterisk includes a sound clip of monkeys. Maybe it's useful for ringtones.
14:05.44DocScrutinizerfor kbd I don't think it's a real problem
14:06.54*** join/#maemo bilboed-tp (~bilboed@212-123-27-210.iFiber.telenet-ops.be)
14:07.06*** join/#maemo eichi (~eichi@stgt-5f70a556.pool.mediaWays.net)
14:07.09lcukDocScrutinizer, theres many instances where holding keyboard and getting extra characters causes problems
14:07.31Knight|HW^ the | thingy?Yeah its not a real problem,but,Its sometime a pain while doing some commands on terminal and Debian,like using grep and...
14:07.42DocScrutinizerlcuk: keys won't get pressed by the fixture
14:08.04eichihello, are there many difference, if i write an QT App c++ for linux x86 or maemo 4 or maemo 5 or meego etc?
14:08.07*** join/#maemo bilboed-tp (~bilboed@212-123-27-210.iFiber.telenet-ops.be)
14:08.23DocScrutinizerlcuk: also you can support the phone on the key-free zones at right and left end
14:08.25eichibecause i want to write one, which works on all of them
14:08.41DocScrutinizerlcuk: ...which btw you can do for ts as well
14:08.53lcukDocScrutinizer, sure, if it works great, just looks like it would need to press
14:09.10lcukeichi, *technically* qt should work everywhere if you stick to simple baseline things
14:09.21lcukhowever once you go beyond that you may have compatability issues
14:09.45lcukand each place you need it may still need specific defines and stuff - just like any cross platformy bits
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14:10.11DocScrutinizerTermana: I can get such fixture for you and do the needed reworks
14:10.43TermanaDocScrutinizer, as long as I don't highlight you when your sleeping again, at least. :P
14:10.50eichiokay, but its nothing i have to on the very first of beginning to write. means i can make this things later like
14:10.53DocScrutinizernvm
14:10.58DocScrutinizerj/k
14:11.09eichimore like "porting to mobile devices" then
14:11.42DocScrutinizereichi: yep
14:11.53TermanaDocScrutinizer, quick pm?
14:12.00DocScrutinizergo ahead
14:12.40lcukeichi, it depends on what qt features you think you need
14:13.01DocScrutinizereichi: lcuk: for a hello world it doesn't matter
14:13.23DocScrutinizerfor special hildonization it does
14:14.00luke-jreichi: Maemo 4… is very dead now
14:14.15eichiDocScrutinizer i need kalender widget style sql and a mapwidget
14:14.39lcukluke-jr, but it has qt on it and lots of devices exist and other apps work on it
14:14.48eichiluke-jr: yeah, but the only thing works on my n800 usable
14:14.51luke-jrlcuk: it does?
14:14.57lcukand my 810 would have even more use if the damn mapping license server would let me BUY a license
14:14.58*** join/#maemo dvoid (~dvoid@h230n4-sde-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com)
14:14.59luke-jreichi: I run Gentoo
14:15.15eichiluke-jr: which desktop?
14:15.15lcukluke-jr, sure, the device is alive
14:15.28DocScrutinizeryou'll see what it needs for special care on N900 as soon as you try it on the device. The base shouldn't hold any completely wrong bits though, just missing a few
14:15.29luke-jreichi: KDE
14:15.51luke-jrbut really usually CLI
14:16.02luke-jrjust KDE for web and such
14:16.26eichii dont like gentoo, but maybe i try archlinux on n800
14:16.29eichiwould be an idea
14:16.35luke-jrdidn't know they had a port
14:17.05eichigentoo has?
14:17.29luke-jrhttp://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0
14:17.34DocScrutinizerhmm, qt on maemo4 aka diablo? /me wonders...
14:17.38luke-jrof course, porting Gentoo is trivial
14:17.42lcukyes DocScrutinizer
14:17.45JucatoQt 4.5
14:17.51DocScrutinizerk
14:18.27lcukperfectly feasible to allow apps to be written and used
14:18.43DocScrutinizerso prolly you had to do a considerable effort to backport qt4.6|7 programs
14:20.23*** join/#maemo CasTTeLLo (~user@118.100.50.236)
14:20.29lcukyes but when writing for compatability, you work with minimal working set to get effect required
14:21.05CasTTeLLohello
14:21.28lcukhello CasTTeLLo \o
14:21.38*** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie)
14:22.01CasTTeLLo:)
14:22.06lcukgermany 1:0 Nigeria  womans U20 world cup final
14:22.15lcuk65 minutes played :)
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14:27.56*** join/#maemo bilboed-tp (~bilboed@212-123-27-210.iFiber.telenet-ops.be)
14:32.22crashanddiedo they all look like rooney?
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14:32.46*** part/#maemo Cute_boy (cute_boy@divide.by.zero.at.shellium.org)
14:33.53alteregoWell, it's done.
14:33.59alteregoI've managed to take my laptop apart
14:34.37alteregoPutting it back together will be exciting. And I've got a blister from undoing all the absurdly tight screws :(
14:35.35*** join/#maemo FireStorm| (~paul@94.169.172.210)
14:35.39FireStorm|oh for ur records u need to use the screen to enter in pass code on boot up via av cable
14:35.42lcukcrashanddie, no its quite reasonable
14:35.52TermanaPlease don't repeat yourself for no reason
14:36.09FireStorm|i didn't mean to as i disconnected :p
14:36.16FireStorm|sent oen before n one on connect
14:36.18FireStorm|so :p
14:36.31FireStorm|but it's not bad as u can guess where buttons are based on what u can see on the screen
14:36.51*** join/#maemo MiskaX (xok7eoifqg@rankki.sonarnerd.net)
14:37.03crashanddielcuk: somehow, I can't help but think of the nigerian players trying to convince the german players that they're the daughter of rich army generals.
14:37.18TermanaStrange, I wonder why my n900 just timed out, but I didn't (since I'm connected through it) :P
14:37.39lcukits a football game crashanddie
14:39.07mhmhanyone tried to get silverlight streaming to work?
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14:41.03DocScrutinizerFireStorm|: if lock password isn't possible to enter via hw kbd then that's definitely a bug. On a helping sidenote you probably can see from screen which key you pressed on touch sensor, as the key should highlight, and it is actually entered on releasing the touch, so you should be able to touch on arbitrary position, then slide your finger to highlight the correct key before release
14:41.36DocScrutinizers/from screen/from TV
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14:44.50DocScrutinizerFireStorm|: do a decent backup (via backup utility) to the SD card. For the contacts you might want to export as vcards (or csv), also to the sd card
14:44.54FireStorm|DocScrutinizer yer i done it that way
14:45.15FireStorm|but just saying u can't use the keyboard on the pass code has to eb touch screen
14:45.24FireStorm|and yes i worked out where buttons where and tapped it in
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14:45.31FireStorm|but if touch screen fails then ur in trouble
14:45.44DocScrutinizeryes, and that's definitley a bug
14:46.17DocScrutinizerI never noticed as I don't use lock password
14:46.29FireStorm|i do as i can't trust people at work
14:46.55FireStorm|:)
14:47.01FireStorm|who do i report bugs to then?
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14:48.28timeless_mbpbugs.maemo.org ?
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14:50.54felipecis anyone around maintaining mplayer, or anything using FFmpeg?
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14:52.44alteregoI wonder what is happening to my servers internet connection to cause these reconnects ....
14:55.34lcukGermany just won U20 womans World Cup 2:0 against Nigeria
14:55.35FireStorm|times out
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14:55.40FireStorm|so drops connection
14:55.50FireStorm|google the error i'm sure there is a router change to fix it
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14:57.00alteregoNo, the connection issue is in a datacentre in the US
14:57.21alteregoNothing to do with my internet connection. It's the connection of the server I remotely log into which I keep IRSSI running in a screen session
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14:59.34FireStorm|oh lol
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15:10.01alteregoThink I'll spend this afternoon writing a little toy app
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15:12.13trumeeanybody know which package provides the telepathy sofia sip libraries on N900?
15:12.29alteregoI saw an app similar on Android, thought it'd be a neat toy :)
15:12.49trumeeThis page is only for maemo4 http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/
15:13.29timeless_mbptrumee: dpkg -l is your friend?
15:13.43timeless_mbpthe packages are part of the platform...
15:14.18timeless_mbpdpkg -S also works...
15:14.30trumeetimeless_mbp: i am still struggling with poor sip performance on N900 :(
15:15.08timeless_mbpi'm struggling w/ having to do some technical writing
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15:48.50ShadowJKouch, texrat had his USB port separate a second time..
15:50.50lcukhe should stop swinging it by its lead then
15:52.03alteregoYeah, I've still had no issue with my USB port.
15:52.32alteregoMakes me wonder how these people are treating theirs, I plug-unplug mine probably at the very least 10 times a day, and anything up to 30 I would have thought
15:52.42lcukthe only time i got concerned really was when i wanted to disable alarm and pulled whilst plugged in to take it back to bed
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15:53.00lcukalterego, i have 1 usb lead and 3 devices on regular cycle between it
15:53.18alteregoHeh
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15:53.30alterego3 devices, you're so greedy :P
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15:54.01lcukalterego, not really i have uses for them
15:54.07lcukcould do with more really
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15:54.11alteregoHeh
15:54.19lcukbut this works for testing
15:54.22alteregoI could do with more (more than one)
15:54.36alteregoUnfortunately I have to make do with what I have :P
15:54.41alteregoAnd backup lots ..
15:54.57lcukyeah
15:55.20lcuk<PROTECTED>
15:56.14alteregoI'm working on a toy app at the moment, I saw on an Android phone the other day. It's a programmable scrolling LED display toy app
15:56.17lcuki would really like to see inductive charging plates
15:56.27alteregoYou configure a message and it shows on the screen a LED style display with the message.
15:56.37alteregoKind of pointless, but I kind of felt an itch to write it :D
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15:58.28lcuksomeone had one designed using liqbase as the editor
15:58.32lcukdigs through memory
15:59.07alteregoWell, the next step, with USB host mode or RS232 would be to actually program a real one.
15:59.17lcukyeah its practical
15:59.24alteregoBut as a toy app in the style of andoid and iphone's I thought it was quite fun.
15:59.28lcuki think the one they wanted would attach onto bike spokes
15:59.35alteregoHeh
15:59.42alteregoOh, yeah, those are cool.
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16:00.03alteregoI wonder if I could use the accel for doing something similar ..
16:00.27eichiluke-jr: what about installing software with gentoo on n800? i used gentoo 3 years and i never liked the time i have to wait on compiling. that was a intel x86 with nearly 3ghz. i start crying if i thing about the time i have to wait in a 400mhz arm. how long did you install kde? 2 weeks?
16:01.15lcukalterego, hmm messages are easy
16:01.20lcuki have a nametag doofer here
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16:02.08alteregoI know it's easy ..
16:02.45lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liq.pendant.20091225_001.jpg
16:03.07lcukhung round neck on a lanyard it always stays upright
16:03.22alteregoI don't think you quite understand what I mean.
16:03.42alteregoUsing the accel to test for motion to display a 2D led pattern.
16:03.47alteregoSorry, 1D led patter.
16:03.59alteregoThat creates a 2D led pattern as you move it from left to right.
16:04.11lcukahh i know what you mean then
16:04.15lcukyou would have lotsa lag
16:04.21lcuki keep spinning n900 round on my desk
16:04.39keriothat requires a constant spin
16:05.00alteregoAnd what I'm doing now, is basically dividing the N900 display into a grid of circles, each circle is a LED either on or off.
16:05.28alteregoThen I'm writing a LED driver for character data that displays letters on the grid, then I make those letters scroll across the grid, like a scrolling LED display :)
16:05.38alteregoIt's just a pointless amusement/tiy.
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16:05.40alterego~toy
16:05.41infoboti guess toy is usually made of plastic
16:05.41lcuk+1
16:05.46lcuknods
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16:06.55lcukalterego, would you dare to attach n900 itself to the wheel of your bike though?
16:07.06alteregolcuk: hah, no :)
16:07.10lcukit would be better using a stripe of christmas tree lights along a spoke
16:07.11alteregoI was thinking more hand-held ;)
16:07.36alteregolcuk: yeah, I saw a clock that operated similar, was basically like a metronome with leds on it.
16:07.42lcukyeah
16:07.44alteregoShowed the time as it moved.
16:10.22alteregoSo you don't think the accel data would be good enough to detect your motion as you wave it back and forth?
16:10.31alteregoIm suppose you could just make it based on time.
16:11.02lcukalterego, it would be feasible but absolutel location like that is a difficult problem ;)
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16:11.09lcuk-l
16:12.35alteregoHrm, yeah
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16:13.18alteregoNot sure that matters so much as displaying your updated images as you progress from stop, speed up, slow down, stop and then backward repeat.
16:13.57lcukalterego, try it
16:14.04lcukit should be feasible
16:14.06alteregoI might just do that.
16:14.12lcukand if you are good and get a rythm going
16:14.14alteregoWhen I've finished this project :P
16:14.16lcukyou could lock on more
16:16.01alteregoWell, my LED display widget is done.
16:16.08alteregoGonna make it nice and customizable.
16:16.24alteregoThen I'll work on the character generator.
16:16.31alteregoAfter I've had a shower, bbiab :)
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16:18.33Pforcedoes anyone know if PyQt4 for maemo is intended to be so that the qmainloop is not running when nothing is being done in the ui
16:18.48timeless_mbp?
16:18.53timeless_mbpyou need an eventloop
16:18.54Pforcethis feels crazy, but my qtimer is calling its timeout function only when i move the mouse on scratchbox
16:18.59timeless_mbpw/o one, your app is supposed to die
16:19.27Pforcewell qapp is the has a event loop, thats why we use the framework
16:19.38Pforcebut my qtimers are not working as on other platforms
16:19.55Pforcei was wondering if this is some kind of battery saving shit
16:20.05timeless_mbpheh
16:20.23timeless_mbptimer behavior has been special in our experience
16:20.32timeless_mbpeven in gtk
16:20.50Pforceand to be spesific, im on pyqt4 in py 2.5
16:21.05Pforcei was wondering why my file writing threads were taking so long
16:21.21Pforceim polling Thread.join() with in the qtimer timeout function
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16:21.25Pforcefor all my threads
16:21.33Pforceand start the next worker thread when the other is completed
16:21.59Pforceeven the threads seem to have issues running without me moving my mouse like a maniac
16:23.11Pforceman, this is a big setback
16:23.32Pforcei need my app.exec_() but i also need constant main loop
16:23.59Pforcei subclassed QApplication.event() and there comes events very rarely
16:24.03Pforcewhich is odd
16:24.17Pforceill try installing a event filder
16:24.20Pforcefilter
16:25.26GNU\caust1cyay, my n900 works again :)
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16:34.57alteregoReally need to get a DVI to HDMI converter
16:35.04alteregoAnd a new SATA cable ..
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16:49.25Pforceok got it
16:49.33Pforceg mainloop was the one hanging
16:49.38Pforcenot qtimers or the main loop
16:49.46DocScrutinizerhehe
16:50.05Pforceit wont budge before you move mouse or something happens in the ui
16:50.07Pforceweird
16:50.26alteregoSounds like you're running it in some silly UI event listener.
16:50.29Pforcehmm i wonder if i need that q mainloop at all
16:50.35Pforceno its not
16:50.47Pforcei thought i need it for dbus and conic stuff
16:50.56DocScrutinizermainloop in a mainloop?
16:51.06Pforcewell, i do iterations to the gmainloop
16:51.24Pforcebut i suppose i dont need it at all, now that i think of it
16:51.33alteregosighs
16:52.00DocScrutinizerponders idly why it's called MAINloop :-P
16:52.24alteregoHah
16:52.33Pforceheh
16:52.50Pforcegood thing i looked into this :D
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16:53.51DocScrutinizerthis is your MAIN mainloop, though shalt not have other loops besides mainloop
16:54.50alteregoI could of sworn I remember reading something similar in the programming 10 commandments or something
16:55.02DocScrutinizerthou*
16:55.41timeless_mbpPforce:  yeah, the gmainloop sucks :
16:55.43timeless_mbp:)
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16:56.05timeless_mbpthat's what was breaking gecko at times
16:56.07timeless_mbploads of fun
16:56.36Pforceright, i just thought i need it on the side with context iterations http://pastebin.com/y7z0GXsv
16:56.49Pforceas it was in the examples, but it was there just to make the example run :>
16:56.51DocScrutinizermubles "will it learn assembler?! prior to messing with OO! will it now?!"
16:57.14Pforceill still have to test on the device if it runs without, i cant see dbus stuff on the scratchbox emu
16:57.49PforceDocScrutinizer: you can have multiple mainloops :P sometimes its needed
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16:58.05DocScrutinizeryou can have one wait though
16:58.09Pforcelike in our work project we run qt in the client and gmainloop in a qthread
16:58.11DocScrutinizerONLY one wait
16:58.28Pforcefor gstreamer
16:59.23DocScrutinizerit's the central wait that listens to ALL signals causing the process(es) to resume from dispatcher sleep state
16:59.57DocScrutinizerif you manage two mainloops will share that central wait() then you're fine
17:01.10DocScrutinizeryes yes, event driven programming isn't for kids :-D
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17:14.55bleadermmm my SYM key doesn't seem to work anymore, is there any obvious reason for this to happen that I may not be aware of ?
17:15.31bleader(physical key seems to be ok as ctrl is working fine)
17:15.47bleaderbut on screen keyboard doesn't appeapr anymore
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17:25.05timeless_mbpdefine doesn't work
17:25.12timeless_mbpif you mean 'doesn't bring on the osk overlay'
17:25.15timeless_mbpdid you install hebrew?
17:25.25timeless_mbpor, does blue-EUR give you PIPE?
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17:32.54alteregoNow I need to come up with a clever way of converting characters into my LED patterns ..
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17:35.16SpeedEvilI suggest a diode ROM
17:38.42alteregoEven though I'm quite distraught my laptop is in bits because I spilled water over it. I kind of like hacking on the big screen of my workstation :)
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17:45.43ShadowJKugh, this sh script I wrote on the commandline on a single line
17:46.00ShadowJKmakes absolutely no sense now that I a week later try to split it into multiple lines and add indentation
17:46.05SpeedEvil:)
17:46.14alteregoHeh
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17:46.23luke-jreichi: no patience? a complete rebuild (required to upgrade GCC 4.3 to 4.4) has taken me about 2 weeks, with a lot of idle "waiting on user because something broke" time
17:47.01ShadowJKIt's like 30 lines when I try to indent it sanely, and it stops making sense
17:47.10ShadowJKwrote this on N900 line-editing
17:47.36alteregoNiiiiice ...
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17:49.26ShadowJKhttp://pastebin.com/sqkmiGPi this is a small part, anyone wanna split it and indent?
17:49.29ShadowJK:)
17:49.52ShadowJKhas lots so many masterpieces of similar quality when system has unexpectedly rebooted and ~/.history no longer had it
17:50.22alteregoWow that looks awful :P
17:50.34ShadowJK:D
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17:51.35ShadowJKhttp://pastebin.com/wcAL4deh hm, I could obviously do with a function here.. how do they work again..
17:52.10alteregofunctionname() { .... }
17:52.47ShadowJKThis is part of a powersave script on my server where my IRC client is, I block IRC to my N900 and N810 for 60 seconds with iptables, then I unblock it and wait until all queued up data has been transmitted, and then block again
17:52.59ShadowJKwhere my irc client / bouncer is..
17:53.13alteregoI just use screen ...
17:53.41ShadowJKlol
17:53.44SpeedEvilShadowJK: Oooh - neat - more or less what I suggested.
17:53.58SpeedEvilShadowJK: does it queue the packets, or simply block?
17:55.13ShadowJKdunno how to queue
17:55.20ShadowJKI just iptables -J DROP
17:55.23ShadowJK-j*
17:55.52luke-jrinefficent TCP queuing :p
17:56.10ShadowJKSo it gets queued by the TCP stack, which eventually retries it after I unblock.. that pastebin is the loop that looks at netstat -to output and counts how many bytes have still not been transmitted successfully
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17:58.00ShadowJKfinds he gets more actually done in sh because he doesn't know how to do anything properly and just writes out crap until it works
17:58.04luke-jrconsider a suspendable screen ;)
17:58.12ShadowJKhas xchat on N900 :P
17:58.22ShadowJKand screen with irssi and irssi-proxy on server
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17:58.45luke-jrI mean have the N900 automatically close your connections when idle
17:58.53luke-jrand reconnect to the screen when you activate it
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17:59.23luke-jra kind of network-screen
17:59.24ShadowJKbah humbug :P
17:59.51luke-jradd a smart X11 proxy for X11 suspending too ;)
18:00.12ShadowJKMaybe with another proxy that would buffer chat hwen disconnect and then transmit it all when I connect
18:00.31luke-jr…
18:00.32ShadowJKI tried that ages ago on desktop, and xchat was too friggin slow to render the burst of chat on connect :)
18:00.44luke-jrthat's the "screen" part of it
18:00.53luke-jrI suppose you could do the same w/ Quassel-protocol
18:03.18zashput your ssh sessions in a loop and kill them on suspend
18:06.39alteregoOh sweet, this should work F*cking nicely :D
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18:10.04SpeedEvilneeds to get to writing http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:WebProxy
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18:11.37harbaumHi
18:13.07Stskeepslo till
18:13.38KhertanHi !
18:13.42harbaumi am still struggling with x11vnc
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18:14.00Khertanlbt, hello is it something normal on community obs : dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown information field 'Maemo-Display-Name' in input data in package's section of control info file
18:14.01Khertan?
18:14.03harbaumanyone ever managed to get past the clock setup screen on the n900 with this?
18:14.42harbaumi spilled my n900 with latte macchiato (lots of sugar), the display cable was stuck and broke
18:15.05Stskeepsharbaum: did you get a display showing?
18:15.05harbaumso now i have a keyboard compartment that still sort of works and i can ssh into it
18:15.14Stskeeps(in x11vnc)
18:15.16Stskeepsjust knowing how far you are
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18:15.36harbaumStskeeps: vnc gives me a screen that's 800 pixels wide and ~10 pixels high ... very odd
18:15.50Stskeepsharbaum: hmm :P
18:16.05harbaumnow i am trying to get some screen on tv out, but that also doesn't seem to work
18:16.19alteregoOkay, I thought this would be easy ..
18:16.27alteregoI can draw shapes, but I can't seem to draw text ...
18:16.55Stskeepsharbaum: rsync -aHx / and your mmc and such to a microsd, best way to backup and eventually restore..
18:17.43harbaumStskeeps: i already tar'ed /home/user. So the "real" backup is not that necessary
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18:20.09mmarc__1hey, guys, maybe some of you tried to compile a foreign toolchain for scratchbox using scratchbox's i486 toolchain? In toolchaincompiled this way I've got a SIGSEGV in /lib/ld-linux.so.2, and that's surpricing. Are there any common reasons for that, do you know?
18:21.33*** join/#maemo marcels (~marcels@cm1017201-a.maast1.lb.home.nl)
18:22.41harbaumhmm, just a blank screen on tvout. also the screen lock switch was so stuck i could barely move it ... sugar ...
18:25.10SpeedEvilharbaum: I'd recommend dissasembling and reassembling
18:25.28SpeedEvilharbaum: you will - absolutely certainly - be doing further damage by having it powered on.
18:25.42harbaumSpeedEvil: The screen cable is broken, so there's no reason to be careful
18:26.07SpeedEvilwell - if you want it to work as it is doing now.
18:26.57harbaumSpeedEvil: I am doing this to get a backup.
18:27.24harbaumIt should be dry by now, so i don't thing any more harm will be done
18:28.02harbaumThe major question is: Get a new n900 or wait for a meego handset
18:28.39SpeedEvilah
18:28.40Venemoharbaum: depends on whether you trust in an N900-compatible MeeGo release or not
18:28.47SpeedEvilharbaum: it never dries.
18:29.12SpeedEvilharbaum: that is - sugary substances never dry enough in most climates to not be corrosive.
18:29.33SpeedEvilIt will always stay slightly damp.
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18:29.55SpeedEvilharbaum: do you have ssh enabled?
18:30.01harbaumSpeedEvil: The device has been soaked. There's not much further damage to be done. And buying a replacement screen won't even guarantee me a working device
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18:30.13harbaumSpeedEvil: Sure, i already tar and copied the data
18:32.22SpeedEvilah.
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18:33.01SpeedEvilI'd still dissasemble and wash, if it was mine.
18:33.18SpeedEvilAre you sure the cable has sheared?
18:36.31toggles_w@sk021
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18:39.52kerioi'd soak it in pure h2o
18:40.29kerioi mean, H₂O
18:41.00kerio(unicode ♡)
18:41.28alteregoSweet, my LED display widget, is now driven by a character driver which handles scrolling and can use any font available :D
18:43.01harbaumSpeedEvil: Yes, the display cable is broken, halfway through
18:43.19alteregoOh, this works very nicely indeed :D
18:43.27alteregoNow to write the configuration controls.
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18:45.37toggles_wls
18:45.43toggles_wlsls
18:46.53tank-manalterego, you made a kernel module to turn on/off the led?
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18:56.04alteregoNo, it's an on screen emulation
18:56.10alteregoJust a toy app
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19:05.12DocScrutinizerwonders why users always leave channel befor somebody can answer to their story
19:06.20*** join/#maemo marginalMan (root@sverige.freeshell.org)
19:06.33DocScrutinizeranyway, seems harbaum's device needs display flex cable assembly swap, just like mine did. Should be feasible for maybe 100 bucks
19:07.34*** join/#maemo harbaum (~harbaum@i59F7A128.versanet.de)
19:07.59DocScrutinizerThough on mine I'm sure it was this unequaled stupid design of connector on flex cable on juper piggyback flex cable that broke. I even wonder how it can work at all
19:08.15DocScrutinizerjumper
19:09.21DocScrutinizerno matter what, if display flex cable is broken, TV out is dead too. Seems SoC video circuitry somehow needs signals *from' LCD, to work correctly
19:09.50harbaumDocScrutinizer: Ah, ok, that explains why i don't see anything
19:10.14ShadowJKbah, my operator has removed my area from the generic "fubar" area, but I still don't get 3g like before the storms :/
19:10.47DocScrutinizerShadowJK: wtf?
19:11.19ShadowJKThey have a live map with known current faults on their network
19:11.48ShadowJKbut after the storms there was so many places without power or wrecked that they just added a big generic "lots of fubar in this area" instead
19:12.16harbaumDocScrutinizer: In fact tv-out generates a valid signal. Just without contents
19:13.01DocScrutinizerharbaum: I recommend to disassemble the device according to RX51_SM_L1_2.pdf, and rinse the housing, and if due also the main PCB with demineralized water. Then dry thoroughly
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19:13.32DocScrutinizerfor at least 7 days, on maybe 50..60°C
19:15.17DocScrutinizerthen reassemble, and get repair (display FPC swap) on a Nokia service center
19:15.50DocScrutinizerask for the broken FPC! :-)
19:16.06marginalManlooking through a guide on overclocking the n900, ideal settings are set to a min of 500, max of 850
19:16.11*** part/#maemo akk (~akkana@adsl-69-105-235-1.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)
19:16.21DocScrutinizer*might* come handy, if ever you ruin front cam, ALS, or indicator LED
19:16.39marginalManwhen setting it to the lv profile it suggests 250 850
19:16.53DocScrutinizermarginalMan: NO!
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19:17.00marginalManno?
19:17.05DocScrutinizerthat's all maximum bullshit
19:17.13keriomarginalMan: the right settings are 250 600
19:17.13kerioLIKE NOKIA SAYS
19:17.19DocScrutinizerspread by noobs that don't have any clue
19:17.30keriomin of 500? the FUCK
19:17.44BCMMno! don't listen to nokia! there is a conspiracy to make your devices run in a needlessly slow and not-on-fire way!
19:17.52DocScrutinizerlv profile is completely nonsense
19:18.06marginalManhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=595582&postcount=774
19:18.25marginalManeasy guys...
19:18.25DocScrutinizerand any clock >600MHz will wear out your CPU at a rate of maybe 10% per week, maybe faster
19:18.41marginalManwow
19:19.07marginalManok... so wht ure saying is stay away from oc
19:19.18*** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie)
19:19.29keriomarginalMan: do you *need* oc?
19:19.38DocScrutinizerI.E run your device on CPU locked to 800 and odds are it starts segfaulting like mad, after several weeks
19:19.52ShadowJKthe "stutter" "jitter" many people experience isn't improved by OC anyway ;)
19:20.02DocScrutinizeryes, stay away from OC if you don't EXACTLY understand what it's all about
19:20.40crashanddieTruth is, most people don't need the OC, and just do it for the e-peen, and the psychological effect "oooh it's soooooooo much faster"
19:20.43marginalMantried the 850 setting... -it does make it way smoother, more responsive, but if its gonna wear it out... -am sure i can do without it
19:21.16keriohey, if you have enough spare cash to buy a new n900 or maybe another phone when yours fucks up, do it
19:21.30marginalManheh, -i'll pass, thanks
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19:21.41keriowe're just insisting on the fact that it's not safe
19:21.43kerioit can never be safe
19:22.06DocScrutinizermarginalMan: It's like messing with RPM limiter in engine of your car, so you can go to 8000 or 10000RPM to drive a little faster
19:22.08kerioapart from that, do whatever you like, i guess
19:22.15DocScrutinizermotor will explode after a while
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19:22.33kerio~nuke engine
19:22.34infobotACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at engine ... B☢☢M!
19:22.38crashanddieDocScrutinizer: except that on an engine, you can change parts yourself relatively easily
19:22.57BCMMyou mean i can't upgrade the CPU on my n900?
19:23.01kerionot if they fuse togheter
19:23.03DocScrutinizereven if you go down to sane limits after a while, motor has taken damage on your running it at high RPM
19:23.21crashanddiekerio: I've pushed quite a few engines to the max, never seen that happen.
19:23.29marginalManfigured as much, -but if tht explosion happens after 3 years... -i'd hav said ok, -10% a week is a lil too steep
19:23.41BCMMdo ARMs cook the same way as x86 and ppc cores i've cooked?
19:23.51keriomarginalMan: "-10%/week" is a number straight from DocScrutinizer's ass, afaik
19:23.52BCMMi.e. just start getting the maths wrong after a bit
19:23.55BCMMsuch that everything crashes?
19:24.05DocScrutinizerkerio: sure it is
19:24.13marginalManhaHA
19:24.16DocScrutinizerbut my ass has GOOD numbers
19:24.27DocScrutinizerand those OC fanboys have NO numbers
19:24.35BCMMvarious people's ideas of safe/ideal overclock speeds are similarly pulled from various asses
19:24.39DocScrutinizer~joerg
19:24.40infobotsomebody said joerg was a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, usually known as DocScrutinizer
19:25.04marginalManok... -i loaded up enhanced linux kernel for power users to get this going... -havnt changed the default -which it reverts to on reboot...
19:25.20marginalManis this default the nokia default?
19:25.25marginalManor should i uninstall?
19:26.30DocScrutinizerI think you're ok with power kernel's boot default
19:26.59DocScrutinizerthough power kernel is notorious to cause other little nasty inconveniences every now and then
19:27.36marginalMan# kernel-config show: min-125 max-600 avoid-125
19:27.50DocScrutinizer125 is unstable
19:28.06DocScrutinizer600 already is "official OC"
19:28.08marginalManthts^ wht the default shows...
19:29.25marginalMancant find no flaw at all with the device... -hardware/os -it is awesome
19:29.38marginalManbut could do with a lil more processing power
19:30.53luke-jrDocScrutinizer: wait, Nokia advertises an OC value?
19:30.54DocScrutinizerBCMM: I'd always prefer to trust in numbers from my ass, than in numbers or WFM cheers from OC fanboys that have so totally no clue at all they even think OC can be made safe by cooling the device or reducing core voltage
19:32.06DocScrutinizerluke-jr: sure, 600 is OC for the OMAP35xx we got in N900. As in "expected lifetime for 600: 1000h"
19:32.25DocScrutinizerthe chip is rated for a continuous max clock of 500
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19:32.39toggles_w45 days?
19:32.48luke-jr41 days :|
19:33.07DocScrutinizermaybe 5000
19:33.17luke-jr208 days?
19:33.20luke-jrstill under a year
19:33.21DocScrutinizerhad to check back with the specs-nonavailable
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19:33.47toggles_wdamn' i'm going to go through a few n900's waiting for meego then
19:34.11luke-jrthat means I'm going to have to plan an upgrade before 2012 ☹
19:34.27DocScrutinizerluke-jr: yep, So you don't want to lock your CPU clock to 600 for any extended period of days/weeks for no good reason. Except if you planned to discard the device after finishing that important task
19:34.41luke-jrDocScrutinizer: *ahem* Gentoo
19:35.38toggles_w-funrollloops needs 600 for weeks at a time
19:35.49TrewasDocScrutinizer: by the way what causes OC to harm the device even if voltage is lowered and cooling improved? looking at the electromigration wikipedia page (which of course could be wrong...) it appears that the main factor is current density which if I understand correctly should increase linearly with overclocking and decrease with lower voltage
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19:36.21DocScrutinizerand nota bene that's always time the cpu is *actually clocked* at 600, not the time it's enabled to 1000 and in fact idling @ 250 or zeroclock
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19:38.02DocScrutinizerTrewas: SmartReflex(R) implements a micro regulator in CPU for virtually every gate. So lowering Vcore just reduces the power dissipated by those micro regulators, but doesn't change anything for the actual gate voltage
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19:39.49DocScrutinizercheck TI doc download pages for whitepapers about SmartReflex technology
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19:39.55TrewasDocScrutinizer: ok, but should increasing the current density by few tens of percents decrease the lifetime of the so drastically? or is the some heavily non-linear factor in play
19:40.49luke-jrDocScrutinizer: does the 5000 hour counter reset after it idles? :P
19:40.51DocScrutinizerthere's a non-linearity factor like on gas discharge lamps or Zeners, above a certain threshold it goes thru the roof
19:42.06luke-jrI'd go set my N900 to max 500 MHz, but it's already laggy enough at 600 :/
19:42.11DocScrutinizerTrewas: you need a certain minimum energy of electrons to strike a metal atom out of crystal
19:42.15luke-jrand that's just with Maemo
19:42.28DocScrutinizeronce you cross that limit it goes zooom
19:42.35luke-jrwhy did Nokia use these slow procs rather than the 1.5 GHz Snapdragons?
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19:43.07toggles_wdev time?
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19:43.46ShadowJKI didn't think snapdragons came in 1.5GHz back then? :)
19:43.48SpeedEvilthe n900 was developed most of a year ago
19:43.59DocScrutinizer2 years I'd say
19:44.02TrewasDocScrutinizer: makes sense, still somewhat surprising to me if the designs are made so close to the limit
19:44.05SpeedEvilpossibly, yes.
19:44.13luke-jrShadowJK: I was drooling over them back then…
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19:44.31SpeedEvilTrewas: That's the point - you don't know if they are.
19:44.47DocScrutinizerbut TI knows
19:44.52SpeedEvilTrewas: There are many possibilities. From 100% of CPUs will fail after 10-15000 hours at 850MHz.
19:45.11luke-jrTrewas: think of it as TI shipping them OC'd :P
19:45.16SpeedEvilTrewas: To all CPUs will work fine 'forever' - say 100000 hours - at whatever speed they can stably overclock to.
19:45.50ShadowJKI still haven't seen any benchmarks of snapdragon vs A8 :(
19:45.51luke-jrnotes good old i386 CPUs still work today
19:45.58DocScrutinizerI think OMAP35xx has 100.000 @ 500
19:46.03SpeedEvilTI may know that the 650MHz part is in fact stable to 800MHz, or they may not simply throw rejects + untested into the 650MHz bin
19:47.31toggles_wluke-jr: oc'd to 600?
19:47.51luke-jrtoggles_w: or whatever
19:48.05toggles_w;-)
19:48.20DocScrutinizerTI doesn't clock the OMAP35xx, OEMs do. TI just recommends/suggests
19:48.56luke-jrDocScrutinizer: except when TI is selling by speed?\
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19:50.37DocScrutinizerand of course TI has two interests: selling chips with brilliant numbers (like clock=1GHz) but also not to pay billions of dollars for device swap programs their customers have to do, because TI promised a certain lifespan @ clockspeed they couldn't deliver
19:52.01DocScrutinizerso TI does decent tests on what their chips can do for which timespan, before a certain percentage fails, and that's what their deals with Nokia are based on
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19:52.43marginalManits the same proc tht is in the last gen iphone?
19:53.33DocScrutinizernow a few blockhead OC nitwits come and say "hey but when I do this or that, my device runs stable @ foo ExaHz" - pfrrrrrrrt
19:53.52luke-jrwhoa Exahz
19:53.59luke-jrI'll risk my device for that
19:54.01luke-jr:P
19:55.38DocScrutinizerTI says "100.000h@500, 5000h@600, 500h@750" or somesuch. Why should anybody know better how to get the best of performance out of TI SoC than TI does?
19:56.27DocScrutinizerok, topic finished
19:57.05DocScrutinizershouting for nurse to get his valium IV injection
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19:57.33marginalManbreathe buddy... breathe...
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19:59.38luke-jrwait a second
19:59.43luke-jrwas s3c6410 always 800 MHz⁇
20:01.13SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: the datasheet of course is not a performance optimising tool. It's part of marketing.
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20:03.11DocScrutinizersure
20:03.28SpeedEvilSo it may be that all parts can do forever @600
20:03.59DocScrutinizeron a certain percentage of chips yes
20:04.09SpeedEvilOr even all of them
20:04.28DocScrutinizerunlikely, as TI would have rated it 600 then
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20:04.57luke-jrit may be that the lucky N900 can do forever @ 600
20:05.41DocScrutinizeryou bet they got the dudes that know their math, to add a few 0/00 on top of the results of their tests, for error
20:06.24DocScrutinizerand they got the procedures to get decent test results giving a error margin of 0/00 only
20:06.55DocScrutinizerTI didn't start chip business last year
20:07.13SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: they would have rated it at 600, if they did not think that they can sell the 850MHz parts at a markup.
20:07.21SpeedEvilTheoretically.
20:07.37*** join/#maemo MiskaX (lcw0zjhtho@rankki.sonarnerd.net)
20:08.15DocScrutinizerTHEORETICALLY possible. See what Kingston does with SanDisk flash chips
20:09.07DocScrutinizerSanDisk sells 32GB uSD class2, Kingston sells class4
20:09.07DocScrutinizerthough Kingston gets their chips from SanDisk
20:09.24DocScrutinizernow you know why I don't buy Kingston :-P
20:10.31DocScrutinizer~omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05  read that!
20:10.32infobotDocScrutinizer: okay
20:10.34luke-jrjust because *some* chips work at Class4/850MHz fine doesn't mean they *all* do
20:10.52luke-jrif they do testing to sort them, they sell the better ones at a premium
20:12.19DocScrutinizerdo you think SanDisk is too stupid to do decent tests on their own chips, while some reseller knows how to? OR SanDisk would sell premium to a lowcost reseller while using second grade on own brand
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20:14.39DocScrutinizerit's just SanDisk IO error - WTF??? Kingston IO error - meh, what had I expected, get another one
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20:19.00tremnite all, sweet dreams
20:19.44DocScrutinizerof course Kingston is using another flash controller chip in their SD than SanDisk does - well maybe maybe not. But then how would Kingston know how to build a controller that gets performance out of SanDisk NAND that SanDisk themselves doesn't know how to achieve?
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20:21.34nox-moin
20:21.40DocScrutinizermoinmoin
20:21.50nox-moin DocScrutinizer
20:22.46nox-are any bugs known wrt sending textmessages?  i wanted to send someone my new number and only the 4th or so textmessage went thru...
20:23.37Venemohi everyone
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20:23.50DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: so it's perfectly possible TI is selling very same chip from very same waver to another OEM rated @600, just telling them "Don't advertise it's a TI chip, and don't expect your device to live longer than 1 year"
20:23.53Venemois this article still valid: http://www.alphatek.info/2010/02/13/install-the-nokia-n900-maemo-5-sdk-on-fedora/ ?
20:24.12Venemoit suggests some modifications to the .py installer of the Maemo SDK, but it is quite dated
20:24.54DocScrutinizernox-: nope, nothing known
20:25.17nox-hm
20:26.42DocScrutinizernox-: go to menu of conversations, enable "receive delivery reports"
20:26.53nox-ah good idea
20:28.20DocScrutinizerSMS is neither realtime nor guaranteed to deliver at all
20:28.44DocScrutinizerocasional delays or even fails are rather common
20:28.58nox-hm where exactly is that entry?
20:29.14DocScrutinizerconversations, menu, settings
20:29.30*** part/#maemo marginalMan (root@sverige.freeshell.org)
20:29.59nox-ah, found it, thx
20:30.01DocScrutinizersettings being 5th of 5. "delivery reports" 1st of 2
20:30.29nox-yep
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20:31.57DocScrutinizerdunno how maemo rtcom / telepathy(?) handles a stack of SMS that weren't able to send due to conectivity loss
20:32.03*** join/#maemo _trine (~trine@trine1-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net)
20:32.15DocScrutinizermight pile up and get sent an hour later, or whatever
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20:32.48nox-well at least my 3g link seems to be pretty good according to the little display at the top...
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20:33.33SpeedEvilhas been streaming video for an hour or so a night over 3G.
20:33.34nox-(its funny btw, just the day i got the sim i read in the local paper we now finally got 3g coverage too :)
20:33.35DocScrutinizermhm, then it's probably the SMSCC that just dropped them, also the most usual case
20:33.37SpeedEvilWorks OK.
20:34.03DocScrutinizernox-: \o/
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20:42.16pupbuntuthis n900 hotspot isn working with any computer or cellfone i use
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20:43.22lbtKhertan: hey... back now
20:43.46lbtdid you get sorted?
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20:49.01kerioi wanna buy a batch of old, cheap PIIIs and overclock them into oblivion
20:49.11kerio8GHz or something
20:49.27kerioone cpu/month is not that much if that cpu costs 10€
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20:54.57luke-jrkerio: who said it would last a month?
20:55.08luke-jrin case you didn't notice, it scales more logarithmic than linear
20:55.46DocScrutinizerdoes N900 MWI for voicebox?
20:55.48*** part/#maemo haltdef (haltdef@unaffiliated/haltdef)
20:56.04luke-jrkerio: also, in the meantime, it will miscalculate/malfunction ☺
20:56.27luke-jrkerio: why not get 8x 1 GHz P3s and leave them at normal speed? :P
20:56.43DocScrutinizer(of GSM, or - while thinking about it - maybe also for SIP)
20:57.02*** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B480FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
21:00.30kerioluke-jr: or using 3 badly overclocked PIIIs, and checking the answer
21:00.47kerioat the same time, like a single cpu with redundancy
21:03.01*** join/#maemo haltdef (haltdef@unaffiliated/haltdef)
21:03.02luke-jrlol
21:03.20kerioP3s rule
21:03.53*** join/#maemo mc_teo` (~hah@unaffiliated/mcteo/x-951735)
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21:17.38tybolltok
21:17.47tybolltthis wifi bug is really killing me
21:17.50prontoD;
21:17.52tybolltgod darn
21:18.29tybolltNookla needs to get the *** out of their *** and fix that... sigh... not a new maemo release just give us a bug fix to non working wifi and all is well
21:19.32ShadowJKwhat wifi bug?
21:20.20DocScrutinizer51wifi WFM
21:20.24tybolltsjk: After <insert random time period> connected to wifi it just magically stops working
21:20.36tybolltfor no good reason
21:20.50DocScrutinizer51never happened here
21:20.52*** join/#maemo Kht_n900 (5c8ef309@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.142.243.9)
21:20.54tybolltconnect to 3G and connect back to the wifi - works again
21:21.03lbtJaffa: ping
21:21.29tybolltnow I have measured and I know that every inch of my apt is very well covered signal wise so it can't be that.
21:21.38lbtwho edits mwn as well as Jaffa ?
21:21.40Kht_n900Hi !
21:21.49DocScrutinizer51tybollt: sounds like losing DHCP lease, or even credentials for WEP/WPA
21:22.02ShadowJKlol
21:22.24ShadowJKI take it that "connect to wifi" means that his connection drops, and can't reconnect
21:22.27ShadowJKnot that it silently stops working
21:22.44tybolltwhat does "can't reconnect" mean?
21:22.47ShadowJKThough disconnecting entirely like when going to 3g has the side effect of unloading the driver I think :)
21:22.48tybolltwhy can't it reconnect?
21:23.41tybolltanyway I heard GAN report something very similar to this so thought it was a known issue
21:23.53DocScrutinizer51how the hell shall *we* now?
21:24.00tybollt*know
21:24.20*** join/#maemo bergie (~bergie@dsl-hkibrasgw2-fef3de00-234.dhcp.inet.fi)
21:24.31DocScrutinizer51nothing in syslog?
21:24.42tybolltDocScrutinizer51: dhcp lease... doubt it very much :)
21:24.52DocScrutinizer51what's your router/AP saying?
21:24.55tybolltbut the losing wpa credentials - how'd that work?
21:25.26tybolltthe AP is dumb so doesn't say anything really
21:25.33ShadowJKI think that the bug where wifi is left consuming huge amounts of power despite phone using cellular data is a known WONTFIX bug ;p
21:25.45tybolltbut fair enough I'll go ahead and debug that then :)
21:25.49DocScrutinizer51much similar to dhcp. you got a wpa lease for a certain duration and you need to renew afaik
21:26.33tybolltDocScrutinizer51: funny I don't see that on my laptop on the same network, ehr... on my laptop*s* :)
21:26.41nox-yeah you can set the ap to rekey after some time...
21:27.12tybolltolrite that may be a clue then, will see about that
21:27.55*** join/#maemo habmala (~sebb@81-231-143-171-no122.tbcn.telia.com)
21:28.21ShadowJKBut like, when he tries to connect it'd get a new WPA lease wouldn't it?
21:29.14tybolltsjk: The point is... if I read you correctly... the reloading of the driver (basically glorified insmod/modloads) is what reestablishes the connectiong?
21:29.20tybollt-g
21:29.33DocScrutinizershould, but when things go nuts because of e.g PSM
21:30.08habmalaHi all, sorry for jumping in like this ;) (I know it can be annoying) I'm looking for an old forum thread but cant find it, what I need to know is where to place an icon that should be recognised by a .desktop file
21:30.21habmalaand sorry for the long post ;) thanks in advance..
21:30.23ShadowJKtybollt, that's my guess
21:30.33ShadowJKtybollt, but I still don't know whether your issue is that N900 thinks it's connected when it's not
21:30.54ShadowJKor that it's disconnected and thinks it's disconnected and can't either find AP or connect to AP when you try
21:31.35tybolltit doies think it is connected, the connection one is the one hilighted in the data-connection selection display
21:32.06DocScrutinizerso connection stalls
21:32.22DocScrutinizermuch like it does when PSM goes apeshit
21:32.34tybolltPSwhatnow?
21:33.17DocScrutinizerAP kicking device out of ARP table due to not answering ARP request. Or failing lease renewal, for whatever, there are several possible causes for that
21:33.27DocScrutinizerpower saving mode
21:34.07tybollthmm
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21:34.23DocScrutinizerthe thing where AP and device agree on sleeping for 5s now, and during that AP is buffering packets addressed for device
21:34.26nox-that wifi-using-power wontfix bug, is that bc it tries to reconnect to wifi to save 3g bw?
21:35.13ShadowJKok if it thinks it's connected, but no data flows, then I'd try with medium powersaving instead of the high powersaving
21:35.45ShadowJKnox-, dunno, it's left always scanning or always listening or something when it's supposed to just activate once every 5 minutes for a quick scan... or something like that
21:35.55nox-oh hm
21:35.57ShadowJKdunno, I just ifconfig wlan0 down when it happens :)
21:36.01nox-sounds broken
21:36.04nox-heh
21:37.00DocScrutinizermight be related to a connection config in N900 having "hidden" property
21:37.18*** part/#maemo Omegamoon (~egoe@demolitionman.xs4all.nl)
21:37.21nox-ah
21:37.36tybolltDocScrutinizer51: you mean if the network is set to not broadcast SSID?
21:37.51DocScrutinizerfor AP with hidden SSID the device needs to actively ping them to query if they are one of the known AP with hidden SSID
21:38.05tybollthmmm
21:38.07tybolltok
21:38.32tybolltso that's likely my problem
21:38.42tybolltand really s/hidden/non advertised/
21:38.54DocScrutinizerso if you got both a network connection with hidden SSID configured on your device, and an AP with hidden SSID in vicinity, there might start doom
21:39.15tybolltfair enough
21:39.29tybolltnow to figure out why only N900 and not ERANGE other wifi consumers does this :)
21:40.03DocScrutinizermaybe they do?
21:40.19habmalamight have fonund it, tnx anyway ;)
21:41.28nox-it could still only ping the `hidden' ap(s) every 5min like it does check the other wifi notworks
21:42.00DocScrutinizeryep, sure
21:42.44*** join/#maemo greenfly (~greenfly@benjamin.greenfly.net)
21:43.05DocScrutinizerbut probably there are ways to easily introduce a bug there, like not asigning a tag "ignore" to AP MAC that didn't respond nicely to a query
21:43.20nox-yeah
21:44.03*** join/#maemo MiskaX (ipt4x4hmsb@rankki.sonarnerd.net)
21:44.08DocScrutinizerfigure the list has primary key ESSID
21:44.36DocScrutinizerinstead of MAC
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21:45.54DocScrutinizerI noticed my laptop going stale/confused on multiple AP with identical SSID as well. Couldn't associate by MAC
21:46.24DocScrutinizermaybe a bug in WPA-supplicant or whatever
21:47.15DocScrutinizermultiple AP with hidden SSID will create same issue, just one magnitude of escalation worse :-P
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21:50.31DocScrutinizerwell in the end you get what you deserve, hidden SSID are *strongly* deprecated :-P
21:50.56tybollthuh what?
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21:51.05tybolltwhy is hidden ssid wrong?
21:51.38tybolltor non broadcasted/advertised ssid
21:51.38DocScrutinizerintroduces a number of vulnerabilities
21:52.07DocScrutinizerwhile not adding a single bit of useful additinal security or whatever
21:52.56VenemoDocScrutinizer: this is a surprise for me
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21:54.44tybolltanyone using this? :S http://www.lcdskydd.se/popup_image.php?pID=81
21:55.04keriowhat are those "buttons" for?
21:55.08kerioand where's the space for the led
21:55.15kerioand how are you going to open the camera lid
21:55.24kerioand wtf, how do you open the kbd
21:55.31tybolltI was hoping someone'd tell me :D
21:55.58tybolltA brand new Protective Skin Case for your Nokia N900. Protects the phone that you love and adds a soft touch to your great gadget. The Skin Cases come with an Organic Anti-Dust (OAD) coating which is a special layer of Organic Anti-dust Material that is sprayed on the surface of the silicone case. This can avoid dust sticking to them. The case can be cleaned easily due to the anti-dust material. Great protection from light drops, scratches
21:56.03nid0generic picture is generic?
21:56.14tybolltnid0: could be
21:57.52DocScrutinizerwrong picture or wrong brain
21:58.21DocScrutinizeroops sory I picked my dog's brain this morning, left mine at home
21:59.52DocScrutinizermybe s/dog/canary bird/
22:01.47cehtehmy self build case is the best anyways :P
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22:05.05*** join/#maemo smhar (~salman@94.79.216.77)
22:05.45smhargreetings
22:06.18*** join/#maemo jayabharath1 (~a0866114@nat/ti/x-hgyqlmhjlkiixezg)
22:06.21smharhow to copy  select and copy text from a webpage in Firefox in N900?
22:08.16*** join/#maemo SWFu (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu)
22:09.39tybolltso anyone tried a black silicone based cover for N900?
22:12.48*** join/#maemo greenfly (~greenfly@216.246.127.101)
22:15.04timeless_mbpsmhar: does ctrl-a work?
22:15.32nox-<DocScrutinizer> I noticed my laptop going stale/confused on multiple AP with identical SSID as well. Couldn't associate by MAC - how does n900 cope with that?
22:17.45DocScrutinizernox-: never tried, there's no more AP with hidden SSID around here, and I don't need to use the AP of my neighbours anymore
22:18.02nox-heh ok
22:18.51nox-i guess if it goes by signal strength maybe thats even `good enough'...
22:18.58DocScrutinizerSo I didn't even try to associate to an open AP with non-unique name
22:19.23*** join/#maemo MiskaX (zwou5vt5lx@rankki.sonarnerd.net)
22:20.39DocScrutinizerbut, in the end, for all AP with identical SSID they are supposed to form a network with same credentials and WPA/DHCP lease handover. So how would that be different on APs with shared SSID <hidden>
22:20.42*** join/#maemo lcuk (lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk)
22:21.26DocScrutinizerIt can not work
22:21.44*** join/#maemo eichi (~eichi@stgt-5f70a556.pool.mediaWays.net)
22:22.20*** part/#maemo eichi (~eichi@stgt-5f70a556.pool.mediaWays.net)
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22:24.13technomikeUnable to install Extra protocol support for Conversations and Contacts (MSN)
22:24.18technomikeI wonder why though :S
22:24.35crashanddielmao, in CSI, some powerdrill killed its owner because the power cable had been reversed, and it hence was "reversed polarity"... On a 110, alternative current power cable xD
22:24.48technomikeLOL
22:24.54DocScrutinizermuhahaha
22:25.03nox-rofl
22:25.10lbtdon't laugh... it could happen....
22:25.10technomikehahahahaa really am lmao here
22:25.39nox-lbt, i thought only on three-phase power?
22:25.47DocScrutinizerCSI, so close to reality the police gets nervous about gangsters gathering too much knowledge - YEAH
22:25.54nox-hehe yeah
22:26.26lbtnox-: you can't reverse three phase, silly... there's an odd number of wired
22:26.49*** join/#maemo mkargar (~mkargar@64.120.218.196)
22:26.52nox-no but if you connect the phases wrong a motor might run reverse
22:27.06mkargarhello
22:27.18DocScrutinizernox-: absolutely
22:27.40DocScrutinizerin german it's called phase direction
22:28.02DocScrutinizeror rotation direction (sic!)
22:28.25mkargari have n900!i deleted rare mp3 from my n900!how to i want recover it?
22:28.40keriooh noes
22:29.02smhartimeless_mbp, I want a small selected text only not the whole page
22:29.12tybolltmkargar: riight click the tashbin and choose undelte... ... oh wait...
22:29.13crashanddieDocScrutinizer: it gets even more fun when you move the phase by 60 degrees on two phases, but not the third one... Mechanical fireworks
22:29.17DocScrutinizernox-: there's even 3-phase plugs that have a switch for that :-P
22:29.19lbtmkargar: was it stored on the SD?
22:29.43lbtthat's FAT32 and you may have some luck using an undelete tool...
22:30.22nox-if it was on the 32G partition or sdhc card those should be vfat so possibly recoverable by something like photorec or what it was called
22:30.48mkargarlbt:no!
22:30.58lbtit's gone then
22:31.23DocScrutinizerseem to remember some killer swapped phase and PE on the plug of a drilling machine. Was that also CSI?
22:31.29mkargartybollt:tashbin?!
22:32.21tybollthmm lots of gems at tmo :)
22:32.44tybolltdid jacek try flash 10 btw?
22:32.47crashanddieDocScrutinizer: yeah, on top of a in-construction prison
22:32.49tybolltwhat happened?
22:32.53crashanddieDocScrutinizer: I'm watching it now
22:32.56mkargarplease help me?
22:33.00nox-mkargar, not even the MyDocs partition?
22:33.05DocScrutinizerlbt: eMMC also FAT32
22:33.56crashanddieanyway, low battery, I should turn my laptop off before Hollywood predicts my death through electromagnetic induction of my testicles. Later
22:33.59keriowtf... i can't access MyDocs through storage mode :|
22:34.37kerioit's correctly unmounted on the n900
22:34.43mkargarnox-:yes!I have mydoc partition!
22:35.04nox-mkargar, if the mp3 was on there try something like `photorec'
22:35.17nox-no guarantee but it `might' work...
22:35.27DocScrutinizerphotorec?
22:35.35DocScrutinizerfor mp3?
22:35.54nox-well there may be others too
22:36.16lcukphotorec has a group of recognition plugins afaik
22:36.33*** join/#maemo MiskaX (lhxdcp004y@rankki.sonarnerd.net)
22:36.47DocScrutinizermc has unearse for ext2/ext3 :-/
22:36.50mkargarnox-:photorec is recovery tool?
22:37.00nox-yeah for fat at least afaik
22:37.03lcukyes, and mp3 is on the list
22:37.13lcukhttp://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/File_Formats_Recovered_By_PhotoRec
22:37.50DocScrutinizerprobably best is to plug into a windows PC and use native windows tools for unerasing files on vfat
22:37.58lcuknods
22:38.08lcukwhy has this one file only got one home if its rare?
22:38.58nox-yeah just what i was thinking...  `data thats not backed up isnt important by definition'
22:39.10nox-:)
22:39.23keriofucking automount fail
22:39.24kerio:|
22:39.32*** join/#maemo mmarc__1 (~marcusmae@h81-88-120-145.rev.domonet.ru)
22:39.44lcuki can understand if it was created on the device
22:39.45*** join/#maemo Dantonic (~david@c-24-10-116-215.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
22:39.55lcukand not had a chance to be gotten off yet
22:40.00nox-true
22:41.07asjlcuk: they claim to reover files with known headers, and then said *.txt files :)
22:42.21lcukasj, sure, its scanning for filenames - windows is clever like that :P
22:42.46*** join/#maemo the_lord (~david@200.8.188.151)
22:42.50keriolcuk: are you claiming there's a better way to distinguish a file's type than a TLA?
22:43.05kerioA WITCH I SAY, IT'S WITCHCRAFT
22:43.06mkargarnox-:ok!in fact,my problem not rare mp3!i recorded audio file by ''recorder'' program and saved it with ''file'' name!since of 5 min,i recorded another audio by ''recorder;; app!in proccessing  save file,i choose same name(file) and it rewriten on the first audio file!but,i have firs recorded audio!!how to recover it?
22:43.10lcukstill gets confused by the linux mechanism of no extension requirement and shebangs (tho very very powerful)
22:43.37nox-mkargar, oooh so you wrote over the same file :(
22:43.42lcukkerio, in windows at least i can know at a glance that an apple is an apple
22:44.00nox-mkargar, as fat doesnt to cow like say zfs, id say the data is gone
22:44.08lcukmkargar, you messed up now
22:44.14lcukthats not the same as deletion
22:44.16mkargarnox-:*iwant first recorded audio!
22:44.18nox-indeed
22:44.28keriomkargar: tough luck
22:44.37kerionext time, be more careful and make copies
22:44.44lcukdeletion invalidates just the link entry
22:45.00lcukwriting stuff over it may infact vape the data
22:45.01nox-if the first recording was longer maybe the end is still readable if find its `clusters'...
22:45.06lcukand no1 will know what
22:45.06nox-if you
22:45.34keriocan the default mediaplayer open apple lossless files?
22:45.36lcukheh. listen to the whole device as audio
22:45.48lcukand see whether your ears explode first
22:45.50keriolcuk: hahaha
22:45.53lcukor you encounter the fragment
22:46.03lcukbut its mp3
22:46.13lcukso you are looking for frames (you said it was mp3?)
22:46.18lcukwhich would be even worse
22:46.27keriomp123 /dev/mmcblk0
22:46.39kerioeventually you'll hit it! :D
22:46.45lcukASKJHSHSKJDHSSHJSDKHSAHJSHKDJSHASKJDHSKJSDHSAKHDKJSADHSAKDHSADHKDHSSHJSKHHKJ
22:47.16mkargarnox-:please help me?is it imposible recover it?
22:47.58keriocan the deault media player read apple lossless or m4a/aac?
22:48.03lcukmkargar, do not write anything else to the disk
22:48.13nox-mkargar, if the first recording was longer than the second then the end of the first one may still be on the flash
22:48.14lcukcontact a data recovery specialist
22:49.04nox-or at least dd the fs to an image on a pc and use that for recovery
22:49.16nox-copies of that...
22:49.21mkargarnox-:yes!first file was 88 min!second file is 6sec!
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22:51.26mkargarnox-:?
22:51.28nox-kerio, aac i think it can
22:51.39kerioapple lossless? :3
22:51.47nox-dunno
22:51.53nox-if not maybe try mplayer?
22:52.06kerionox-: that would be cheating
22:52.12nox-heh
22:52.20kerioalso vlc > mplayer
22:52.22kerioPROVE ME WRONG
22:52.33nox-does vlc run on n900 too?
22:52.39keriosure
22:52.44nox-oh heh
22:52.45keriono frontend
22:52.47keriocvlc
22:52.48lcukmkargar, try the suggestions here, take a backup and run the photorec tool.  see if it does anything and magically brings it back
22:52.49nox-ah
22:52.56lcukbut stop bloody writing to that disk
22:53.11nox-and in this case backup == image
22:53.26lcukyes dd it
22:53.29nox-yes
22:53.56lcukvanishes to bed time coding ponderment
22:54.01technomikeI love my N900, I use it for practically everything. If I could, I would use it to cook my meals, etc. There is probably a way to get it to cook, I mean, it does everything else...
22:54.31mkargarlcuk:ok!i install photorec!
22:54.35lcukthere is at least one cooking recipe app
22:54.53lcukhildonised and optimised afaik :)
22:55.13lcukpyrecipe
22:55.36nox-the touchscreen may not like dirty hands tho :)
22:55.48lcukmm voice control?
22:55.52nox-heh
22:56.12lcuk"computer, make me bacon"
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22:56.23keriotechnomike: well, duh
22:56.28lcukARGHGGHGHGHGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH i said make me bacon, not make me into bacon
22:56.43kerioread the linux-coffee howto and port bacon on it
22:56.52technomikehahahaha
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22:57.26lcukwe had bacon butties as the food at the wedding rececption this weekend.  was the most awesome wedding reception i have ever been to
22:57.28DocScrutinizerspeech recog lib -where? when? why not yet?
22:58.11lcukDocScrutinizer, because only future computers have viable speech recog, but we need proper star trek communicator phone app once all the stuff gets open source
22:58.43lcukincluding needing to flip it open using an accelometer gesture
22:58.47lcuknot just land/port
22:58.53DocScrutinizerhmm, voice dialing and cmd seems to work pretty nice on N95
22:59.31lcuk"computer phone see dive"
22:59.36lcuk"formatting c drive now"
22:59.49DocScrutinizersome 10 years ago I had a linux app that was able to learn 16 words, and sometimes even recognize them correctly
23:00.00DocScrutinizervanished into oblivion :-(
23:00.01lcukhehe
23:00.18*** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie)
23:01.12keriothe n900 has no voice dialing ._.
23:01.14lcukDocScrutinizer, perhaps the problem is not trying to recognise things and fit input into boxes in a usual manner, its about adding context to the things it hears
23:01.42lcukkerio, temporary problem, i bet its feasible :P
23:02.22DocScrutinizerI'd be more than happy with nato alphabet plus alternate, control, escape, enter, backspace
23:03.08DocScrutinizermaybe plus 0..9
23:03.37DocScrutinizersome special chars, like + - $ * # /
23:03.48DocScrutinizerno context, PLEASE!
23:04.17nox-having to spell out everything sounds slow tho
23:04.29*** join/#maemo radiochickenwax (~user@ip72-201-232-49.ph.ph.cox.net)
23:05.01tybolltheh my gps thingy for the car has an amazing voice discovery
23:05.12tybolltbasically never fails
23:06.24asjvoice discovery?
23:07.11tybollteh it's too late for me :) voice recognition/voice input system...
23:08.02*** join/#maemo MiskaX (pzfdsuwu0p@rankki.sonarnerd.net)
23:08.04DocScrutinizerI don't mind a <press button> "alternate" >alternate on<, "delta" >dial command on, tell first char<, "whiskey" >double-u, 16 contacts<, "echo" >double-u eh, 1 contact<, "enter" >dialing contact 'Werner', number: 1, 3, 2, 2...<
23:08.11lcukDocScrutinizer, i mean context as in your input, you specify what an utterance means
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23:09.15DocScrutinizerobviously alternate-D means dial, in example above
23:12.05asjtybollt: ah ok
23:12.23asjtybollt: my car isn't bad either
23:12.30DocScrutinizerlcuk: you got the context problem all the time, no matter which MMI you use
23:14.42kerio"N900, kill Flanders"
23:15.24DocScrutinizerhell, even my 10 years old 6210 knows how to dial one of 10 contacts that have spoken name trained. And it does that rather reliably (in silent environment)
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23:16.17cehtehsomewhere i seen a pocket-sphinx port for the n900 .. without any useable apps around :/
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23:16.39DocScrutinizerN95 recognizes contact names without any training, neither for correct pronounciation of contact names nor for speaker
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23:21.40DocScrutinizerso given the facts there's absolutely zero OS specific code in such a speech recognition function - except interfacing to audio for recording, and that's quite simple enough - why doesn'r Nokia bother to port that symbian speech recog to N900, I mean there's other closed source apps you need to install as a blob, so it can't be copyright issues or anything
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23:22.28derfLicensing issues, probably.
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23:22.36derfI doubt they own all the code.
23:22.54DocScrutinizerblah, the LICENCE IT, NOKIA! you got the money
23:22.54ShadowJKI doubt they wrote any of it :P
23:23.02DocScrutinizerthen*
23:23.23DocScrutinizerI bet they didn't
23:23.37DocScrutinizeras they didn't write a sngle line of code for bme
23:24.11DocScrutinizerstabs Robot101
23:25.33asjI wonder if it's a service that wasn't used very much
23:25.55asjI know I tried it on my Symbian phones, then found the user interface to the voice recognition useless and never used it again
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23:26.43DocScrutinizerasj: the point is on N900 the users are in cntrol over the user interface, if only Nokia would provide the lib
23:27.59DocScrutinizerso probably the chance to put this tho proper use and usability first time ever
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23:28.22asjDocScrutinizer: are there no oss options?
23:29.12DocScrutinizernever found any. There are ultraheavy universitary projects for full text recognition but nothing simple and lightweight
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23:30.02DocScrutinizeras mentioned above, 10 years ago there was an app that could learn like 16 words
23:30.15DocScrutinizermore like a PoC
23:30.41nox-hmm  http://cmusphinx.sourceforge.net/
23:31.05nox-looks like this is opensource?
23:32.14mortiniDocScrutinizer: i remember seeing something about even the commercial speech recognition stuff has stalled since  the early 2k's
23:33.13DocScrutinizernox-: seems like that's one of the 2 much-too-heavy univeritary projects
23:33.37nox-heh
23:33.47nox-maybe the algos are just complex...
23:34.18DocScrutinizeryep, as it's true speech-to-text, not a simple recognition of a limited set of words
23:34.26nox-aah ok
23:35.01DocScrutinizerS2T never worked THAT great
23:35.16nox-still theres something called `pocketsphinx' so it might run on n900...
23:35.22mortiniprobably not a lot of comercial good in it, either, since the delta between what's possible and what it'd take to be profitable is probably pretty large.
23:35.28DocScrutinizeras you always run into the context problem changing meaning and thus spelling of similarly sounding words
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23:36.24nox-yeah tho i guess context is also used to improve recognition rates
23:37.15DocScrutinizeron "dial number - - Werner - - OK" there's just as much context
23:37.30nox-true
23:37.43DocScrutinizeror "start application -- xchat - - OK"
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23:38.47DocScrutinizer"set alarm - - one, two, oh, oh -- OK"
23:40.12keriorsync to sync music through usb is fucking awesome
23:41.56kerioi'm scared of unplugging my usb cable now
23:41.59keriotracker :(
23:42.17DocScrutinizerhehe
23:42.46keriois there a way to stop it and force it to start from the absolute scratch?
23:43.05DocScrutinizersure
23:43.16DocScrutinizerjust forgot how
23:43.21BugBluersync? yes but why?
23:43.29kerioBugBlue: what else?
23:44.53BugBluejust start it again and rsync will make sure what needs to be transfered
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23:47.27kerionot the transfer
23:47.29keriothe stupid tracker
23:47.31kerio._.
23:47.42kerioi know rsync is smart enough to figure all things by himself
23:48.13kerio(except that vfat is stupid so it needs a bigger time window and that os x is stupid so it needs to exclude .DS_Store)
23:48.34kerioDocScrutinizer: I HAVE THE URGE TO OVERCLOCK TO MAKE IT GO FASTER
23:48.41kerioWHAT CAN I DO
23:51.50lcuktell people to optimise their apps so they dont waste cpu or battery
23:52.24keriolcuk: *hahahahahaha*
23:52.29keriohehe
23:52.33kerio-sigh-
23:52.33kerio:(
23:52.44cehtehkerio: rsync -P  for once ..
23:52.55cehtehand use another filesystem than fat :P
23:53.22cehteh(well there is some parameter for rsync to support some timestamp fuzz)
23:53.23kerioyeah, i'll just reformat MyDocs to use ext2
23:53.39kerioand -P just tells him to continue where he left off
23:53.46keriowhich is *useless* since it's a local transfer
23:53.48cehtehurgs .. why not ext3 or ext4? :P
23:54.47nox-is ext3 really better for flash?
23:55.12kerioubifs is good for flash
23:55.15cehtehits better optimized meanwhile .. and the writes to the log are neglectible
23:55.16kerioor so i heard
23:55.32cehtehubifs is for raw flash, not mmc/sd
23:56.13cehtehthe root filesystem is ubifs but you cant use that on blockdevices
23:57.04cehtehext4 will only work with an extended kernel, just for the record (anyways, i use it)
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23:58.40DocScrutinizernox-: >>...and is successfully used on IPhone, Nokia Maemon devices and on Windows Mobile.<< (pocketsphinx)
23:58.59nox-heh
23:59.56DocScrutinizerlooks like the text itself was dictated using sphinx :-P the "typos" are phonetic, like "ariphmetics"
23:59.58DocScrutinizer:-D

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