| 00:00.18 | Joey_Snowprano | no i charged battery to like 75% |
| 00:00.31 | Joey_Snowprano | but then it did it again with the buttons not working and the battery wont charge |
| 00:00.38 | Joey_Snowprano | i think the battery is screwed? |
| 00:00.46 | MohammadAGRX-51 | scratches head, and says oops |
| 00:00.47 | DocScrutinizer | maybe |
| 00:00.54 | Psi | does the n900 run without a battery? |
| 00:01.12 | Joey_Snowprano | well it just stopped reboot cycle battery might be completley dead now lol |
| 00:01.26 | flailingmonkey | no, must have battery |
| 00:01.42 | Psi | hm.. yeah, testing a different battery is definitly something to try |
| 00:01.46 | Joey_Snowprano | turned it back on and it's just continuous reboot again |
| 00:02.05 | Joey_Snowprano | except this time with the 5 dots after nokia screen |
| 00:02.14 | flailingmonkey | I don't know if N900 even charges a completely empty battery |
| 00:02.26 | DocScrutinizer | Psi: no |
| 00:03.03 | DocScrutinizer | flailingmonkey: it does. Usually |
| 00:03.09 | flailingmonkey | for example, take battery out, plug in charger, you'll get nothing |
| 00:03.27 | DocScrutinizer | flailingmonkey: what's that? |
| 00:03.28 | Speedevil | Is it possible to log out of maemo.org? |
| 00:03.33 | flailingmonkey | DocScrutinizer: thought it needed to detect battery and some other stuff |
| 00:03.58 | DocScrutinizer | you thought right |
| 00:04.01 | flailingmonkey | some people might think that you could run it without battery, if you have charger connected |
| 00:04.17 | DocScrutinizer | they will learn better |
| 00:04.24 | DrIDK | Is it possible to use Maemo Window X Decoration on my PC ? |
| 00:04.27 | flailingmonkey | like some laptops are able to, but thats not the case :) |
| 00:05.32 | flailingmonkey | probably not, i think maemo uses a modified x server? plus all the hildon modified gtk+ stuff |
| 00:06.11 | flailingmonkey | i am just talking out of my ass here though :P |
| 00:06.13 | DocScrutinizer | Joey_Snowprano: we had similar case a few days ago. Recharge your battery by any other means than N900. Will probably fix the issue |
| 00:06.21 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@54.200.49.122-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 00:06.24 | Joey_Snowprano | ok |
| 00:06.27 | flailingmonkey | brb |
| 00:06.38 | DocScrutinizer | Joey_Snowprano: your battery is empty, and reflashing in that state seems not to help |
| 00:06.50 | Joey_Snowprano | yeah I gotta find a way to charge it |
| 00:07.01 | Psi | does the n900 bat have a coulomb counter inside? |
| 00:07.20 | DocScrutinizer | http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/power/batteries/nokia-battery-bl-5j/compatibility |
| 00:07.25 | DocScrutinizer | Psi: no |
| 00:07.30 | Speedevil | Psi: no |
| 00:07.33 | Psi | well that makes it easier |
| 00:07.44 | DocScrutinizer | makes no difference |
| 00:07.46 | Speedevil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Charge_Meter |
| 00:08.34 | Joey_Snowprano | If i order a replacement battery you think it will come with enough charge on it? |
| 00:08.37 | DocScrutinizer | Joey_Snowprano: maybe the URL I posted gives you some ideas... Friends, brother.... |
| 00:08.59 | Psi | Joey_Snowprano: if you have a multimeter you could measure the voltage of the battery |
| 00:09.12 | DocScrutinizer | Psi: won't help |
| 00:09.45 | DocScrutinizer | Joey_Snowprano: probably a freshly bought battery has enough capacity, yes |
| 00:09.59 | Joey_Snowprano | i need a spare anyways |
| 00:10.01 | Speedevil | There are also alternatives |
| 00:10.07 | Joey_Snowprano | not the circumstances i wanted to get one though lol |
| 00:10.29 | DocScrutinizer | Joey_Snowprano: are you a technical guy? |
| 00:10.55 | Joey_Snowprano | well enough |
| 00:11.21 | pexi | its always good to visit the battery university :) http://www.batteryuniversity.com/ |
| 00:11.22 | Speedevil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/USB-UNIVERSAL-CHARGER-MOBILES-CAMERA-PSP-BATTERY-/260618510061?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_Batteries_SM&hash=item3cae12deed - for example |
| 00:11.37 | Speedevil | I would trust this to charge the battery for an hour or so. |
| 00:11.47 | Speedevil | I would question if it's a good idea to use it regularly |
| 00:12.54 | Psi | if it was me id probably just twist some wires around phone + and - terminals put battery in and connect wires to psu set at 3.8V, see if it booted then |
| 00:12.59 | pexi | battery university suggests low voltage charger for lion |
| 00:13.43 | Speedevil | Joey_Snowprano: I assume you'renot in Fife, Scotland? |
| 00:13.44 | pexi | cycles lasts longer |
| 00:13.54 | *** join/#maemo flailingmonkey (~user@static-98-140-86-94.dsl.cavtel.net) |
| 00:14.02 | pexi | i.e. battery capacity |
| 00:15.05 | Joey_Snowprano | lol no i am Orlando Florida |
| 00:16.17 | Speedevil | Well - that'd make my offer to let you borrow a battery for 4 min less useful :) |
| 00:16.54 | pexi | http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-21.htm |
| 00:18.42 | *** join/#maemo sheepbat (~lev3k@c-98-238-227-32.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:20.18 | pexi | am I risking loosing my google calendar notes if I sync through MFE? |
| 00:20.33 | *** join/#maemo type_t (~type_t@c-98-228-74-254.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 00:22.35 | DocScrutinizer | Joey_Snowprano: the reason this happens is probably the voltage of the battery is just high enough to make the phone think it can boot safely. but then when all the greedy stuff like backlight etc kicks in, the voltage drops under minimum level, and phone resets |
| 00:23.17 | Joey_Snowprano | ok |
| 00:23.26 | Speedevil | I would suggest trying connecting it to a computer first - not the wall charger |
| 00:23.39 | Speedevil | this can cause it to charge a tiny bit more before trying to boot |
| 00:24.01 | DocScrutinizer | this isn't supposed to happen, as voltage of cell shouldn't drop that much. And also there should be reasonable hysteresis between the 2 thresholds |
| 00:24.02 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 00:24.13 | Speedevil | yes |
| 00:24.54 | DocScrutinizer | and phone is supposed to enter an emergency charging mode without booting, when cell is really depleted |
| 00:25.27 | Speedevil | It does - but it seems that the threshold is just a little wrong I guess |
| 00:25.37 | Speedevil | Joey_Snowprano: Oh - also - I'd try takingthe SIM out |
| 00:25.45 | Joey_Snowprano | yeah i took the sim out |
| 00:25.54 | Joey_Snowprano | it does continuous reboot then eventually stops |
| 00:26.00 | DocScrutinizer | anyway shit happens, and if cell impedance is going a little up due to aging, or you got oxidized contacts, or tthe battery is cold or warm or it's full moon... |
| 00:26.03 | Joey_Snowprano | phone wont charge while it's off though will it? |
| 00:26.10 | Speedevil | Joey_Snowprano: yes, it will |
| 00:26.25 | Speedevil | Try leaving it on charge overnight. |
| 00:26.35 | Speedevil | Others have reported success when doing that |
| 00:26.37 | Joey_Snowprano | ok wall charger or through usb on computer? |
| 00:26.48 | Speedevil | Though Idon't understandwhy |
| 00:26.49 | DocScrutinizer | when it's charging it always has a yellow light |
| 00:27.16 | Speedevil | I don'tthink it mattersmuch forthis - wallcharger? |
| 00:27.58 | DocScrutinizer | anyway if it keeps bootlooping, then it definitely won't charge |
| 00:28.05 | Speedevil | yeah |
| 00:28.57 | DocScrutinizer | if you get it connected to charger or PC and staying quiet, then chances are it does charge |
| 00:29.44 | Joey_Snowprano | wonder what caused this though |
| 00:29.53 | Joey_Snowprano | wonder if it was the charger, the phone, or the battery |
| 00:30.04 | DocScrutinizer | only though if battery was in, when you connected to usb/charger. Inserting battery after connecting carger won't help |
| 00:30.51 | DocScrutinizer | Speedevil: (don't think it matters) wallcharger has D-short |
| 00:30.57 | DocScrutinizer | ->500 |
| 00:31.21 | DocScrutinizer | so definitely wallcharger |
| 00:31.24 | kW | I have to re-raise the question: does anybody successfully sync his contacts and calendar data with a linux desktop box? |
| 00:31.39 | DocScrutinizer | sync? nope |
| 00:31.58 | DocScrutinizer | though I heard legends it could be done |
| 00:32.27 | kW | Well... we have 15 years of history of portable digitale devices, and the sync-problem is still not solved... that's quite wird |
| 00:32.31 | kW | weird... |
| 00:32.41 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 00:32.43 | DocScrutinizer | :-S |
| 00:33.05 | DocScrutinizer | My take on that is vcard import export |
| 00:33.18 | kW | (I know the technology how to solve this, but I don't have time and resources to actually implement and advocate it...) |
| 00:33.46 | kW | but this effectively means that the user needs to keep track of which version of which vcard is current manually |
| 00:33.47 | DocScrutinizer | Kontact has vcard resource as an option for contacts database |
| 00:34.14 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, basically yes |
| 00:34.34 | DocScrutinizer | though vcard import never overwrites old contacts |
| 00:34.54 | DocScrutinizer | and at least Kontact can join contacts (iirc) |
| 00:35.19 | kW | hmm |
| 00:35.37 | kW | is this problem just nokia- or linux-specific or does it also exist in the windows world? |
| 00:36.29 | nextime | uff |
| 00:36.53 | nextime | i hate when networking isn't what should be |
| 00:37.03 | nextime | and apparently for no reason |
| 00:38.42 | Joey_Snowprano | bah it doesn't charge through computer when in USB mode does it? |
| 00:38.51 | Joey_Snowprano | no orange led |
| 00:39.03 | Joey_Snowprano | nevermind it's solid |
| 00:39.05 | Joey_Snowprano | i'm an idiot |
| 00:42.39 | DocScrutinizer | computer is suboptimal. It'll charge with 100mA only and maybe the computer eventually decides to power off the USB. Use the wallcharger! |
| 00:42.49 | *** join/#maemo swo (~swo@p54AECF0A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:43.01 | DocScrutinizer | emergency charging was designed with wallcharger in mind |
| 00:43.24 | Joey_Snowprano | is it charging though with wallcharger when it just does continuous reboot? |
| 00:43.33 | Joey_Snowprano | when i plug in wallcharger it automatically tries to boot up |
| 00:43.34 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 00:43.59 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, that's weird why it doesn't do that on PC then |
| 00:44.25 | Joey_Snowprano | because i hold down U for PC and it goes into usb mode |
| 00:44.38 | DocScrutinizer | probably the higher charge current rises the voltage above the boot threshold |
| 00:45.04 | DocScrutinizer | it doesn't chatge in USB mode afaik |
| 00:45.09 | DocScrutinizer | charge |
| 00:45.29 | DocScrutinizer | and actually USB mode means the system booted cleanly |
| 00:45.49 | Joey_Snowprano | ok |
| 00:46.15 | DocScrutinizer | so this is still a not completely understood issue |
| 00:46.21 | Joey_Snowprano | lol |
| 00:46.46 | DocScrutinizer | are there chances your 97 flashs all failed? |
| 00:47.08 | Joey_Snowprano | yeah |
| 00:47.25 | *** join/#maemo GuySoft (guy@bzq-79-179-43-253.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 00:47.43 | ptl | how can I buy stuff on Ovi Store? I've tried half a dozen proxies from different countries and it always say "Sorry, this item is not available for your country". How can I buy Zen Bound? |
| 00:48.00 | MohammadAG51 | move to another country |
| 00:48.19 | kW | Joey_Snowprano: using 'u', you have been able to flash everything and still the system reboots all the time? |
| 00:48.38 | Joey_Snowprano | I flashed firmware first and it didn't fix issue |
| 00:48.58 | Joey_Snowprano | did emmc and firmware next |
| 00:49.02 | Joey_Snowprano | and it didn't fix it either |
| 00:49.12 | ptl | MohammadAG51: tried US, CZ, France, Germany, Sweden, China |
| 00:49.13 | DocScrutinizer | Joey_Snowprano: anyway, you might be able to "switch off" the device from usb mode. So it should enter a clean charging state which is basically a minimal system that's ACTing_DEAD |
| 00:49.16 | Joey_Snowprano | but now i wonder if there was enough battery to sucessfully flash |
| 00:49.32 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@183.84-49-135.nextgentel.com) |
| 00:49.37 | kW | Joey_Snowprano: ah... you mean the flash failed? |
| 00:49.52 | Joey_Snowprano | i didn't get any errors or anything |
| 00:50.02 | MohammadAG51 | windows eh? |
| 00:50.08 | *** join/#maemo type_t (~type_t@c-98-228-74-254.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 00:50.19 | MohammadAG51 | you typed the full path to the file right? |
| 00:50.19 | Joey_Snowprano | the cmd prompt went through fine |
| 00:50.24 | kW | Joey_Snowprano: well, maybe you can confirm that you flashed correctly by reading the data from the device? |
| 00:50.25 | Joey_Snowprano | yeah |
| 00:50.35 | MohammadAG51 | run cmd as administrator |
| 00:50.48 | MohammadAG51 | then cd into into the Maemo Flasher directory |
| 00:51.52 | Joey_Snowprano | ok in the flasher directory |
| 00:52.37 | DocScrutinizer | double check the filenames of the two images you downloaded |
| 00:52.43 | DocScrutinizer | post them here |
| 00:52.48 | Joey_Snowprano | pretty positive i typed full file path names correctly because I pressed tab and it automatically did the file |
| 00:53.04 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 00:53.14 | Joey_Snowprano | RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM |
| 00:53.20 | Joey_Snowprano | RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM |
| 00:53.28 | DocScrutinizer | failwale! |
| 00:53.34 | DocScrutinizer | they don't match |
| 00:53.34 | Joey_Snowprano | uh oh |
| 00:54.03 | Joey_Snowprano | did i download the wrong one? |
| 00:54.11 | DocScrutinizer | obviously? |
| 00:54.41 | Joey_Snowprano | first time i have ever flashed using cmd so what did i do wrong? |
| 00:54.43 | DocScrutinizer | I'd guess the vanilla should have same version number? |
| 00:55.06 | DocScrutinizer | 2010.13-2.VANILLA |
| 00:55.35 | AntiPudd1ng | like s banana |
| 00:55.43 | DocScrutinizer | I guess is wrong. There should be a 2010.19 file, no? (not sure as I never did the 1.2 shuffle) |
| 00:56.36 | *** join/#maemo Klowner (~klown@71-215-23-109.dvnp.qwest.net) |
| 00:56.52 | Joey_Snowprano | There is eMMC content 1.2009.41-1 and eMMC content 10.2010.13-2 for the eMMC images |
| 00:56.59 | kW | DocScrutinizer: well, as far as I can recognize, I also used a 13-er emmc file and a 19-er PR file |
| 00:57.27 | Joey_Snowprano | maybe the order i did was wrong? |
| 00:57.33 | DocScrutinizer | ok, so probably I'm wrong |
| 00:57.39 | Joey_Snowprano | i did emmc then firmware |
| 00:57.48 | kW | I used RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin and then RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin |
| 00:57.49 | DocScrutinizer | you must NOT boot between the two flashes |
| 00:57.57 | MohammadAG51 | right combo |
| 00:58.10 | MohammadAG51 | indeed, follow the updated instructions |
| 00:58.19 | Joey_Snowprano | yeah i did emmc without -R |
| 00:58.22 | DocScrutinizer | as long as you don't boot in between them it's rather meaningless which sequence |
| 00:58.23 | Joey_Snowprano | then the firmware with -R |
| 00:58.25 | kW | Joey_Snowprano: why do you have a "1.002" in your filename? |
| 00:59.08 | *** join/#maemo njsf_ (~n@sxemacs/devel/njsf) |
| 00:59.12 | DocScrutinizer | kW: ?? |
| 00:59.28 | Joey_Snowprano | kw that's the USA release of the firmware 1.2 |
| 00:59.31 | Joey_Snowprano | it just downloaded that way |
| 00:59.34 | DocScrutinizer | aah |
| 00:59.34 | kW | Joey_Snowprano: I see |
| 00:59.40 | kW | I used the global release in my case |
| 00:59.53 | *** join/#maemo mindfaq (~mindfaq@p4FFE101C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:00.05 | Joey_Snowprano | maybe i should try global? i don't know what differences there are |
| 01:00.14 | kW | Joey_Snowprano: maybe it is an idea to flash an older firmware, or meego for example, just to determine whether the problem is specific to the firmware version (or more specific to the device) |
| 01:00.23 | kW | I don't know either |
| 01:00.50 | Speedevil | Oooh!!!! |
| 01:00.54 | Speedevil | http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2010/06/introducing-google-command-line-tool.html |
| 01:00.59 | Joey_Snowprano | now i wonder if the battery has enough juice for it |
| 01:01.08 | Speedevil | GoogleCL is a pure Python application that uses the Python gdata libraries to make Google Data API calls from the command line. |
| 01:01.28 | DocScrutinizer | I suggest you charge your battery. We had exactly same bootlooping madness here some 4 days ago. Was fixed with a new battery, and then it turned out the old was as good as the new one, after charging it |
| 01:01.35 | kW | Joey_Snowprano: well, once you can boot from any these firmwares, the battery problem should vanish |
| 01:01.54 | Joey_Snowprano | ok |
| 01:02.18 | Joey_Snowprano | i just don't know if it's charging in usb mode connected to PC |
| 01:02.24 | Joey_Snowprano | because it just loops when i use wall charger |
| 01:02.39 | kW | and when you use 'U'? |
| 01:02.43 | DocScrutinizer | you'll see tomorrow. Is the indicator LED on? |
| 01:02.52 | Joey_Snowprano | use U with wallcharger it didn't go into USB mode |
| 01:02.54 | kW | (can you unplug it from the computer after using 'U' and then use a wall charger?) |
| 01:03.35 | kW | or will it just reboot-cycle (or will it just shut off)? |
| 01:03.46 | Speedevil | http://code.google.com/p/googlecl/wiki/ExampleScripts - who was wondering aabout google calendar stuff earlier? |
| 01:04.33 | DocScrutinizer | you'll see tomorrow. Is the indicator LED on? |
| 01:04.34 | Joey_Snowprano | ok |
| 01:04.34 | *** join/#maemo type_t_ (~type_t@c-98-228-74-254.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 01:04.34 | Joey_Snowprano | so i unplugged the usb from computer |
| 01:04.43 | Joey_Snowprano | quickly plugged in wallcharger |
| 01:04.47 | *** join/#maemo GuySoft (guy@bzq-79-179-24-181.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 01:04.54 | kW | Joey_Snowprano: and...? :-) |
| 01:04.54 | Joey_Snowprano | i now have a flashing orange led |
| 01:05.00 | kW | well, that's nice :-) |
| 01:05.07 | Joey_Snowprano | and the device is not trying to boot lol |
| 01:05.07 | DocScrutinizer | very good |
| 01:05.34 | *** join/#maemo panaggio (~panaggio@200-158-190-11.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 01:05.41 | kW | is the flashing slow? |
| 01:05.46 | Joey_Snowprano | yes it is |
| 01:06.17 | kW | well, this is an indicator that after fully recharging, you may be able to ordinarily boot the device, I believe |
| 01:06.26 | Joey_Snowprano | ok |
| 01:06.26 | kW | because that slow flashing is actually "ACTDEAD"-mode AFAIK |
| 01:06.35 | DocScrutinizer | if you care, you shoild look after it every hour. as it might suddenly stop charging, or continue bootlooping or just do other weird things. If it's green in 3h you're done with the battery. Then redo flashing |
| 01:06.45 | DocScrutinizer | kW: yep |
| 01:06.47 | DocScrutinizer | kinda |
| 01:06.49 | kW | so it _did_ boot that far... |
| 01:07.19 | Joey_Snowprano | ok so once greenlighted should I just reflash or try turning it on? |
| 01:07.30 | kW | well, doesn't matter, you can reflash for sure |
| 01:07.41 | Joey_Snowprano | ok because i will have enough juice on the battery |
| 01:07.42 | DocScrutinizer | you'll probably turn it on anyway |
| 01:07.44 | kW | but you can also reflash later after looking what will happen :-) |
| 01:08.12 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 01:08.25 | Joey_Snowprano | well this was fun |
| 01:08.43 | *** join/#maemo GeneralAntilles (~ryan@Maemo/community/council/GeneralAntilles) |
| 01:08.52 | Joey_Snowprano | i appreciate you guys taking the time to help brainstorm and troubleshoot this with me |
| 01:08.54 | DocScrutinizer | it's actually interesting if the bootloops are a borked system or simply the particular battery state alone |
| 01:09.02 | kW | DocScrutinizer: I had similar things with the openmoko freerunner... booting worked fine, until the GSM chip was powered on |
| 01:09.12 | DocScrutinizer | lol, yes |
| 01:09.27 | kW | (in case of a low battery) |
| 01:09.32 | DocScrutinizer | N900 and FR have quite some things in common :-P |
| 01:09.59 | kW | well, I'm just in the process of switching to the N900 because I want to loose some of the common things... ;-) |
| 01:10.31 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 01:11.03 | *** join/#maemo GAN900 (~ryan@248-35.187-72.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 01:11.29 | DocScrutinizer | actually the FR charging was even worse than N900 hardware |
| 01:12.21 | kW | yes, but the FR could boot without battery... and charge then |
| 01:12.52 | DocScrutinizer | wonders how long the capacitors would keep a state of the 1707, when battery is taken out |
| 01:13.08 | DocScrutinizer | kW: only after A6 |
| 01:13.13 | DocScrutinizer | with A6 |
| 01:13.22 | DocScrutinizer | during... |
| 01:13.29 | DocScrutinizer | nobody knows :-P |
| 01:13.33 | *** join/#maemo guysoft42 (~guysoft@bzq-79-179-24-181.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 01:13.42 | kW | DocScrutinizer: well, A6 seems to be the hardware revision of my freerunner "copy" |
| 01:13.43 | DocScrutinizer | C1707=100uF fixed it |
| 01:14.10 | luke-jr | anyone know: if two towns are in the same rate center, does that imply they have the same local-calling-from areas? |
| 01:14.11 | DocScrutinizer | or was it 1767? |
| 01:14.43 | kW | well, I don't now :-) |
| 01:15.19 | DocScrutinizer | now that's a question no european user even knows the meaning of the words ;-P |
| 01:15.25 | kW | luke-jr: well, this depends probably on the country you are talking about... |
| 01:15.55 | luke-jr | kW: Nebraska |
| 01:16.11 | DocScrutinizer | USA I *knew* it. 3rd world :-P |
| 01:16.15 | kW | DocScrutinizer: in thailand, it is possible to have long distance calls within the same prefix area |
| 01:16.42 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 01:16.48 | kW | luke-jr: well, I do not know how it is in Nebraska |
| 01:16.57 | *** join/#maemo ohwhyme (~andyph666@port549.ds1-hvi.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 01:17.08 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: you give the USA too much credit. *worse* than 3rd world |
| 01:17.22 | luke-jr | prefix area != rate center |
| 01:17.31 | DocScrutinizer | I know 98% of Americans have really weird ideas about how telephone exchange works |
| 01:18.04 | kW | DocScrutinizer: well, "only" 1/6 of the U.S: population are below the poverty line |
| 01:18.38 | *** join/#maemo b-man (~b-man17@pool-71-244-171-62.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 01:18.49 | luke-jr | http://www.localcallingguide.com/lca_exch.php?exch=119690 |
| 01:19.02 | DocScrutinizer | I honestly have no idea what a rate center might be |
| 01:19.57 | DocScrutinizer | and the idea to get charged for inbound minutes is like you're talking about the big fish swimming in the moon |
| 01:20.08 | luke-jr | aka exchange? |
| 01:20.30 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: I don't get charged for inbound minutes. Not even monthly. |
| 01:20.44 | DocScrutinizer | we got no exchange here, the way you Americans seem to think about them |
| 01:21.09 | *** join/#maemo zhenhua (~zzhan17@nat/intel/x-eowxvrmayvrxatvx) |
| 01:21.27 | kW | luke-jr: that's quite interesting: the local-call-graph is not even symmetric |
| 01:21.37 | DocScrutinizer | we also got no free municipal calls |
| 01:21.45 | kW | that is, there are cases where A calling B is a local call but B calling A is not |
| 01:21.53 | *** join/#maemo Psi (~ben@ip-58-28-158-238.static-xdsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 01:22.31 | kW | DocScrutinizer: tell, how do you think americans think how exchanges work? |
| 01:23.36 | DocScrutinizer | I remeber some dude trying to explain to me about last 7 numbers, and local prefex being the next 3 or sth, and that's not area but exchange |
| 01:23.54 | DocScrutinizer | and allegedly the 7 is a fixed number of digits |
| 01:24.30 | DocScrutinizer | ther's no 6 digit numbers and no 8 digit numbers, and ahhh I don't remember, it was too weird |
| 01:24.39 | kW | DocScrutinizer: well, in france, there is also an attempt to make telephone numbers fixed length |
| 01:25.23 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, it's a nice to have, but has no impact whatsoever on how a call gets connected |
| 01:25.50 | DocScrutinizer | you start with the first digit, not with the last |
| 01:26.02 | kW | sure, it has no impact... and it has weird effects, such as companies which grow need to renumber everything, because the cannot just add more digits |
| 01:26.17 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 01:26.42 | DocScrutinizer | but they CAN do that, without breaking the scheme of their local exchange |
| 01:26.56 | kW | using "extensions"? |
| 01:27.37 | DocScrutinizer | I meant they CAN renumber and then add another 4 digits |
| 01:28.18 | DocScrutinizer | and the exchange won't care, as the exchange doesn't look at the digits after its own code |
| 01:29.12 | DocScrutinizer | actually nowadays you got the equivalent to a DNS, so every number can be everywhere |
| 01:30.21 | DocScrutinizer | I could move from south of Germany to North and technically *could* take my full number with me |
| 01:30.30 | kW | the equivalent... or actual DNS like e164.arpa? |
| 01:30.51 | DocScrutinizer | e164.arpa is mainly for SIP |
| 01:30.58 | DocScrutinizer | aiui |
| 01:31.08 | DocScrutinizer | but yes, exactly this type of thing |
| 01:31.11 | kW | well, you are not allowed to take your number with you if you, although it is technically possible |
| 01:31.22 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 01:32.01 | DocScrutinizer | except if you got a non-geographical number |
| 01:32.10 | DocScrutinizer | e.g a vanity number |
| 01:32.53 | DocScrutinizer | also really huge companies sometimes move to another town and keep their area code of ld town |
| 01:33.03 | DocScrutinizer | old* |
| 01:33.12 | kW | oh |
| 01:33.23 | DocScrutinizer | Siemens e.g. |
| 01:33.30 | kW | how much do you have to pay to get an areay of an area code modified? ;-) |
| 01:33.54 | DocScrutinizer | dunno |
| 01:33.54 | kW | in switzerland, they effectively removed the area codes altogether |
| 01:34.16 | kW | and luxemburg never had area codes |
| 01:34.23 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 01:34.30 | DocScrutinizer | it had luxemburg |
| 01:34.37 | DocScrutinizer | small enough an area |
| 01:35.46 | kW | hmm, you're probably right |
| 01:36.08 | DocScrutinizer | in he former times (like the 70s) you could even tell if a number is north or south or any other quarter of a town. Not now |
| 01:36.17 | kW | you did not have an area-code-prefix (a '0') though |
| 01:37.09 | DocScrutinizer | in luxemburg? |
| 01:38.19 | kW | yes, AFAIK |
| 01:38.29 | DocScrutinizer | no surprise |
| 01:38.51 | DocScrutinizer | they had only one area, so no area code -> no area prefix |
| 01:39.12 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 01:40.22 | kW | this is what I was telling ;-) |
| 01:40.26 | kW | but I was wrong |
| 01:40.29 | DocScrutinizer | dialing the country code like +51 or whatever from anywhere in the world connects you to 'area' luxemburg. All you need is the base number then - probably 7 digits |
| 01:42.04 | DocScrutinizer | anyway tel number are read from left to right (if arabic), and not anything else |
| 01:42.24 | DocScrutinizer | and USA people sometimes seem to disagree on that |
| 01:42.49 | kW | DocScrutinizer: oh well, do they "type" the numbers in the same order as they read them? |
| 01:43.30 | DocScrutinizer | no idea |
| 01:43.39 | kW | hehe |
| 01:43.59 | MohammadAG51 | writing tel numbers in arabic is f'd up |
| 01:44.10 | MohammadAG51 | I use english numbers only |
| 01:44.55 | kW | MohammadAG51: probably what DocScrutinizer calls arabic _is_ what you call english |
| 01:44.58 | MohammadAG51 | but last time i saw an arabic number, it was LTR not RTL :) |
| 01:44.59 | DocScrutinizer | we got a nice system here: railway phone network. You need to skip from node to node. So depending where you are you get completely different 'numbers' to dial for same destination |
| 01:45.29 | MohammadAG51 | kW, wait... so I'm speaking dutch right now? |
| 01:46.13 | kW | DocScrutinizer: the same error everywhere (including the railway phone network), routing-information confused with identification information |
| 01:46.22 | kW | MohammadAG51: not necessarily, why? |
| 01:46.29 | *** join/#maemo type_t (~type_t@c-98-228-74-254.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 01:47.11 | DocScrutinizer | I just learn they are indian digits, in Europe known as indian-arabian digits o.O |
| 01:47.25 | kW | hehe |
| 01:48.33 | MohammadAG51 | never knew indians had the same number "symbols" |
| 01:49.07 | DocScrutinizer | I'm puzzled. I'm using european version of indian-arabian digits :-o |
| 01:50.11 | MohammadAG51 | i'm confused |
| 01:50.13 | MohammadAG51 | lol |
| 01:50.23 | DocScrutinizer | actually the don't, but they seem to consist of 9 digits and a zero symbol often a dot or ring, and are written left to right base10 |
| 01:50.26 | MohammadAG51 | i also fell asleep for 3 mins |
| 01:50.32 | MohammadAG51 | so... night :) |
| 01:50.46 | DocScrutinizer | night |
| 01:51.22 | DocScrutinizer | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabische_Zahlen |
| 02:02.06 | DocScrutinizer | seems /sbin/preinit changed quite a it from 1.1.1 to 1.2 |
| 02:02.22 | DocScrutinizer | bit* |
| 02:04.19 | DocScrutinizer | kW: the bootmenu stuff was there in 1.1.1 as well |
| 02:06.40 | *** join/#maemo lsm5 (~lsm5@cpe-74-77-136-217.buffalo.res.rr.com) |
| 02:08.15 | *** join/#maemo njsf_ (~n@sxemacs/devel/njsf) |
| 02:08.37 | kW | DocScrutinizer: that could be |
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| 02:23.18 | dotblank | Does the on-screen keyboard in pr1.2 not work in portrait mode? |
| 02:23.30 | Termana | good morning |
| 02:24.55 | *** join/#maemo yerga_ (~yerga@87.223.190.67) |
| 02:26.40 | DocScrutinizer | dotblank: did it prior to pr1.2? |
| 02:27.02 | Joey_Snowprano | ok got a green light now lol |
| 02:27.09 | dotblank | it worked prior |
| 02:27.16 | DocScrutinizer | dotblank: I'd guess in portrait it would get really small and tiny |
| 02:27.50 | dotblank | it had a different layout in portrait before 1.2 |
| 02:28.04 | DocScrutinizer | dotblank: so how would you invoke vkbd in portrait mode on 1.1.1? |
| 02:28.06 | dotblank | I want the old on screen keyboard back |
| 02:28.31 | dotblank | find an app that supported portrait find an empty text box |
| 02:28.35 | DocScrutinizer | Joey_Snowprano: so check now if it still bootloops |
| 02:28.36 | dotblank | then it would pop up |
| 02:28.49 | DocScrutinizer | tell me an app |
| 02:28.58 | dotblank | um.... |
| 02:28.58 | DocScrutinizer | I don't know a single one |
| 02:29.00 | Joey_Snowprano | i am, just turned it on. It's on the 5 dots screen |
| 02:29.03 | dotblank | thinking |
| 02:29.12 | Joey_Snowprano | and it loaded |
| 02:29.15 | Joey_Snowprano | VICTORY! |
| 02:29.19 | dotblank | Oh i made one |
| 02:29.19 | DocScrutinizer | LOOOOL |
| 02:29.23 | dotblank | thats right |
| 02:29.39 | dotblank | got the qt 4.6 on a pr 1.1.1 device |
| 02:29.52 | dotblank | and I tested auto rotation |
| 02:30.09 | DocScrutinizer | Joey_Snowprano: so that's a FAT ticket :-P |
| 02:31.29 | Joey_Snowprano | Thanks for the help |
| 02:31.46 | Joey_Snowprano | Like sincerely thank you |
| 02:32.07 | DocScrutinizer | dotblank: right - 1.1.1 had no portrait mode (mostly) and afaik no way to invoke the vkbd in any of the 2.3 apps that (inofficially) supported portrait |
| 02:32.24 | *** join/#maemo rodald (d8e68545@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.230.133.69) |
| 02:33.14 | DocScrutinizer | wonders whether to drain his battery to the point of loopings |
| 02:35.30 | *** join/#maemo g55 (~g55@rgnb-5d87d1fb.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 02:37.25 | LiraNuna | <dotblank> find an app that supported portrait find an empty text box |
| 02:37.29 | LiraNuna | it just rotates the screen |
| 02:37.36 | LiraNuna | but the keyboard shows up for 2 seconds |
| 02:37.43 | Joey_Snowprano | working like a champ now |
| 02:37.43 | LiraNuna | (swap duration) |
| 02:38.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | well battery icon is half black - guess I'll actually try my luck and see what's going to happen |
| 02:39.02 | DocScrutinizer | Joey_Snowprano: :-)) |
| 02:39.31 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@a88-115-2-128.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 02:39.31 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@redhat/pcfe) |
| 02:40.53 | dotblank | Migh have to make my own vkbd |
| 02:41.05 | dotblank | kinda important to have vkbd to work |
| 02:41.06 | rodald | hi, can someone help me flash my device step by step, it died this morning when i was uninstalling some programs, i uninstalled a program called Linux Kernel for power users that came with an app called mobile hot spot, and then it just rebooted and the screen never came back |
| 02:41.35 | DocScrutinizer | oooohnoes |
| 02:42.19 | DocScrutinizer | one deja vu after the other |
| 02:43.02 | DocScrutinizer | rodald: you need to reflash rootfs (and kernel) |
| 02:43.10 | *** part/#maemo Termana (~Bradley@CPE-121-221-224-231.lns7.pie.bigpond.net.au) |
| 02:43.13 | rodald | and how do i do that? |
| 02:43.17 | DocScrutinizer | ~tell rodald about flashing |
| 02:44.27 | rodald | right now i am trying to download the Nokia Software Updater, will it work? |
| 02:45.08 | DocScrutinizer | when you're thru with flashing, please go to the website of the mob. hotspot and shout at them as loud as you can |
| 02:45.42 | rodald | i am planing to >:( |
| 02:47.27 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~fernando@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 02:47.55 | DocScrutinizer | rodald: you should use the flasher.3.5.1 or what it's called |
| 02:48.17 | DocScrutinizer | I gather NSU doesn't work for your problem |
| 02:50.00 | rodald | should i use this one RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin, this one RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin or both of them |
| 02:50.21 | DocScrutinizer | the second one, COMBINED |
| 02:50.29 | DocScrutinizer | no need to flash EMMC |
| 02:50.45 | rodald | what do you mean with combined |
| 02:50.49 | dotblank | What a bummer that vkbd only works in landscape |
| 02:50.56 | dotblank | im super sad :( |
| 02:51.05 | DocScrutinizer | rodald: look at the file name |
| 02:51.26 | DocScrutinizer | there's VANILLA and COMBINED |
| 02:51.39 | rodald | ohhh sorry, thank you |
| 02:52.36 | DocScrutinizer | rodald: carefully study the wikipage infobot sent you |
| 02:53.14 | rodald | one question will that one work if the firmware wasnt the PR 1.2 i had the one before that |
| 02:54.04 | *** join/#maemo hcm (~hcm@port-92-193-43-203.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 02:54.28 | DocScrutinizer | then you'd possibly prefer to use the 50.2009 some +/- version of the above file. Or you update to 1.2 'en passant' |
| 02:55.07 | DocScrutinizer | so yes, it will work - that's what 80% of people do to upgrade from your version to the new PR1.2 |
| 02:55.10 | *** join/#maemo type_t (~type_t@c-98-228-74-254.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 02:55.45 | rodald | and how do i update to 1.2 with the VANILLA one |
| 02:55.55 | DocScrutinizer | just flash it |
| 02:56.16 | DocScrutinizer | nah, you don't need to upgrade the vanilla file |
| 02:56.24 | DocScrutinizer | just flash the combined |
| 02:57.04 | rodald | so in conclusion i can use the X-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin even if it wasnt PR1.2 |
| 02:57.15 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 02:58.22 | DocScrutinizer | I hope you have a recent backup though. otherwise you'll need to install all your apps again |
| 02:59.12 | DocScrutinizer | well, maybe that's not the worst thing, as I guess there is at least one app you don't want to be restored after upgrade ;-D |
| 02:59.20 | rodald | yes i do but i am having second toughts to do so because that will install the kernel i uninstalled again |
| 02:59.32 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 03:00.13 | DocScrutinizer | you can select on restore on a per app level iirc |
| 03:00.32 | DocScrutinizer | so maybe you have a look into backup app neverheless |
| 03:01.05 | *** join/#maemo dockane_ (~dockane@f048005254.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 03:01.18 | DocScrutinizer | at least it can restore your themes, your desktop widgets etc, and you can opt out from installing any apps |
| 03:01.36 | rodald | ah ok good to know :) now i only have to wait for the file to download :| |
| 03:03.34 | DocScrutinizer | rodald: you can create a new backup, after upgrade/flashing, and then restore that immediately, to practice and check it |
| 03:04.05 | DocScrutinizer | obviously restoring to the just backup'd state can't do any harm |
| 03:04.23 | rodald | i guess |
| 03:04.31 | DocScrutinizer | when you feel confident then select the real backup file to restore |
| 03:04.46 | rodald | but first i have to get out of this bad experience |
| 03:04.54 | *** join/#maemo b-man (~b-man17@cpe-98-30-196-184.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 03:05.05 | rodald | at least i am lerning how to flash :) |
| 03:05.09 | DocScrutinizer | will work, no worries :-) |
| 03:08.10 | *** join/#maemo PradaBrada (b2e6e609@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.230.230.9) |
| 03:09.19 | PradaBrada | hey guys wuts going on in this chatroom? |
| 03:12.19 | Joey_Snowprano | heading to bed. Thanks once again |
| 03:12.54 | rodald | right now i wish i have a faster internet connection only 31.9 out of 179.2 : ( |
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| 03:58.03 | dotblank | If I have a dialog in qt on maemo what signal is sent to the widget/window if the area outside is clicked |
| 03:58.36 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@54.200.49.122-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
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| 05:02.41 | LiraNuna | I just flashed eMMC image and rootfs |
| 05:02.54 | LiraNuna | and the settings seem to be set on 3G pone mode as opposed to Dual |
| 05:03.26 | *** join/#maemo shinkamui (~KamN900@ip68-11-94-155.no.no.cox.net) |
| 05:09.01 | ham5 | apt to switch that |
| 05:11.20 | Stskeeps | morn |
| 05:16.16 | *** join/#maemo lsm5 (~lsm5@cpe-74-77-136-217.buffalo.res.rr.com) |
| 05:22.41 | *** part/#maemo dragorn (nobody@durandal.kismetwireless.net) |
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| 06:01.05 | AntiPudd1ng | http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2010/06/introducing-google-command-line-tool.html $ google docs edit --title "Shopping list" --editor vim |
| 06:04.19 | *** join/#maemo MiXu- (~mixu@dsl-trebrasgw2-ff2ffb00-26.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 06:05.13 | Dassu | O_O |
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| 06:26.07 | AntiPudd1ng | http://alteeve.com/~lance/bally/bb_ovrl2.gif let's write an emulator for Bally Basic |
| 06:30.17 | *** join/#maemo bigbrovar (~quassel@83.229.6.19) |
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| 07:12.07 | th3hate | i messed m device up.. |
| 07:12.09 | th3hate | someone help me? |
| 07:12.54 | AntiPudd1ng | what device? |
| 07:13.14 | th3hate | i installed MAFW equalizer |
| 07:13.17 | th3hate | then wrote apt-get remove mafw-gst-renderer |
| 07:13.28 | th3hate | now the media player is completely gone |
| 07:13.31 | th3hate | even the widget |
| 07:13.49 | th3hate | any way to restore it? |
| 07:16.03 | *** join/#maemo marcus (~marcus@0x573ebd02.cpe.ge-0-2-0-1104.mrbnqu1.customer.tele.dk) |
| 07:16.19 | marcus | Heya guys. What is the theme name for Digital Nature (orange one) in /usr/share/themes? |
| 07:16.28 | marcus | I am trying to mod the transitions.ini |
| 07:20.17 | marcus | And if I mod /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini, will it then be changed right away? the effects. |
| 07:20.24 | *** join/#maemo choppa (~chigge@p5491F72C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:22.08 | *** join/#maemo z4chh (~zach@aolclient-67-9-195-57.aol.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 07:24.30 | th3hate | yes no need to restart |
| 07:26.08 | *** join/#maemo slyfox (~slyfox@178.125.33.114) |
| 07:28.25 | marcus | th3hate: I can see that now, really nice. Do you have experience in modding it? |
| 07:28.48 | *** join/#maemo DantonicN900 (~user@m7e0e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 07:30.36 | DantonicN900 | hey I just started having an issue, the bluetooth will no longer transmit voice to any device. Media works fine, just voice... any idea what is going on? |
| 07:35.27 | marcus | You sure the mic is working fine? |
| 07:36.54 | DantonicN900 | yes, regular calls work |
| 07:39.10 | DantonicN900 | besides it's the audio being received, not my audio |
| 07:39.45 | DantonicN900 | I can't hear the other caller |
| 07:40.14 | DantonicN900 | not sure if they can hear me... |
| 07:41.21 | *** join/#maemo |R (~bob@66.49.175.113) |
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| 07:45.02 | marcus | Hmm, was it dead on arrival? |
| 07:50.33 | DantonicN900 | had it since december... |
| 07:51.24 | DantonicN900 | was working fine till yesterday, haven't installed nor updated any software |
| 07:52.16 | *** join/#maemo TheNewAndy (~andy@CPE-58-164-10-212.lnse5.ken.bigpond.net.au) |
| 07:52.46 | DantonicN900 | the only thing I did different is I tried playing media through bt... ever since then voice no longer transmits |
| 08:00.44 | th3hate | is there any way to restore media player if i deleted it by mistake?? |
| 08:01.21 | valdyn | th3hate: how did you delete it? |
| 08:02.16 | th3hate | i installed MAFW equalizer plug in |
| 08:02.26 | th3hate | then wrote apt-get remove mafw-gst-renderer to remove it |
| 08:02.33 | th3hate | now media player is completely gone |
| 08:02.44 | Stskeeps | heh |
| 08:03.07 | Stskeeps | can prolly apt-get it back in. apt-cache search |
| 08:03.14 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Venemo@host-94-248-202-178.kabelnet.hu) |
| 08:03.39 | valdyn | th3hate: apt-get told you that it would remove it, and you just hit Y or enter to confirm? |
| 08:04.20 | th3hate | it said it would only remove the MAFW equ |
| 08:04.26 | th3hate | but it removed the whole media player |
| 08:04.35 | valdyn | th3hate: you didnt read |
| 08:05.00 | th3hate | o rly :D |
| 08:05.05 | th3hate | anyway to restore it? |
| 08:05.43 | valdyn | th3hate: apt-get install mediaplayer |
| 08:06.23 | th3hate | ok i'll try now |
| 08:06.51 | nextime | mumble |
| 08:07.29 | nextime | simple upstart script: that launch exec /etc/init.d/rc.local start |
| 08:07.56 | nextime | rc.local contain just "case "$1" in" switch |
| 08:08.07 | nextime | where in case of start do a . /etc/rc.local |
| 08:08.22 | nextime | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:08.30 | nextime | after the bootup of the phone |
| 08:08.37 | nextime | if i do an iptables -L -vn |
| 08:08.47 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (~david@c-24-10-116-215.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 08:08.49 | nextime | i see those three rules repeated three times |
| 08:08.54 | nextime | ( so, 9 rules ) |
| 08:09.08 | nextime | any idea on why it seem that rc.local is called 3 times? |
| 08:09.14 | *** join/#maemo Xisdibik (~Xisdibik@c-67-164-41-249.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 08:09.17 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-121-94-172.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 08:09.51 | nextime | oh, it is the respawn call on the upstart script probably |
| 08:09.55 | nextime | answer to myself |
| 08:10.15 | pigeon | should bluetooth mouse just work with the n900? or do i need to setup something manually? |
| 08:10.43 | marcus | Any way to download an image from my n900 to my desktop without using scp? |
| 08:10.48 | marcus | By using ssh only. |
| 08:11.13 | nextime | marcus: can't you use netcat? |
| 08:11.45 | pigeon | i suppose you could just ssh host cat file > something |
| 08:11.48 | marcus | nextime: Never heard of that. Guess it requies netcat on n900 as well? |
| 08:11.59 | nextime | marcus : yes |
| 08:12.20 | nextime | it is a sort of "raw tcp telnet like" thing |
| 08:12.50 | nextime | pigeon : no, if you do ssh host cat file |
| 08:12.54 | nextime | you can the file on the host |
| 08:13.04 | marcus | Yeah, I am doing that right now. |
| 08:13.05 | nextime | a oh |
| 08:13.09 | nextime | yes, it will work, you right |
| 08:13.10 | marcus | But that's with "vi" |
| 08:13.10 | nextime | :D |
| 08:13.20 | marcus | I'd rather use something like gedit etc. |
| 08:13.53 | nextime | ok, my rc.local now is working the right way |
| 08:14.09 | nextime | now i have the latest problem and my maemo is configured for my needs :) |
| 08:14.35 | pigeon | speaking of netcat, i don't see netcat in the maemo repo, and it's not enabled in busybox. |
| 08:14.43 | marcus | I just did a transitions mod, and damn it is looking good. Thanks to dscobsct |
| 08:14.45 | nextime | maybe someone have an idea on that issue: openvpn. I have a vpn link from my n900 to a remote server |
| 08:15.02 | nextime | if i start the vpn connected to my home wireless |
| 08:15.08 | nextime | all is working like a charm |
| 08:15.20 | nextime | if i start the vpn connected using hsdpa |
| 08:15.35 | nextime | tcp connection between the two endpoint of the vpn are working |
| 08:15.38 | nextime | same for udp connections |
| 08:15.50 | nextime | if i ping from the n900 to the server all is working |
| 08:16.18 | nextime | but, if i ping from the server to my n900, icmp packets arrive to the n900 tun device, but it doesn't answer at all |
| 08:16.27 | nextime | routing is ok |
| 08:16.47 | nextime | and mtu doesn't seem to be the problem as i tryed to reduce that and tcp/udp connection are working |
| 08:17.12 | nextime | any idea on what can be the issue? |
| 08:25.12 | valdyn | nextime: the n900 does not reply to pings by default |
| 08:26.03 | *** join/#maemo arachnist (arachnist@insomniac.pl) |
| 08:26.18 | nextime | valdyn : this is a good point, but if so, why if i start the vpn connected over wifi i can ping it? |
| 08:26.20 | grishnav | nextime: your provider probably blocks ICMP (or really, any incoming packets) from you. tmobile by chance? |
| 08:26.33 | grishnav | or are you talking about pinging over the VPN? |
| 08:26.39 | nextime | grishnav : no, as the icmp are INSIDE the openvpn tunnel |
| 08:26.46 | grishnav | ah, ok |
| 08:27.03 | grishnav | layer 2 or layer 3 mode? |
| 08:27.26 | nextime | grishnav : it is a symble openvpn link with static keys over udp |
| 08:27.33 | grishnav | ok but |
| 08:27.37 | grishnav | layer 2 or layer 3 mode? :P |
| 08:27.46 | grishnav | tun or tap? |
| 08:27.52 | nextime | grishnav : tun |
| 08:27.55 | valdyn | nextime: doesnt make sense, maybe you pinged the wrong ip, maybe something you run enables echo replies. It's just off by default |
| 08:28.04 | grishnav | ok so, layer 3 |
| 08:28.12 | grishnav | is the n900 getting an IP? |
| 08:28.13 | nextime | valdyn : no, the ip is the right one |
| 08:28.20 | grishnav | and if so, from where? |
| 08:28.25 | nextime | grishnav : it is fixed on the openvpn config |
| 08:28.25 | grishnav | and is it p2p or client/server mode? |
| 08:28.37 | nextime | i have 192.168.228.3 server side and .4 n900 side |
| 08:28.41 | nextime | p2p |
| 08:28.46 | grishnav | hmm |
| 08:29.01 | grishnav | so it works over wifi, but not hspa? |
| 08:29.11 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@213.59.86.89) |
| 08:29.15 | nextime | es |
| 08:29.15 | valdyn | that doesnt make sense either |
| 08:29.17 | nextime | yes |
| 08:29.18 | valdyn | coincidence |
| 08:29.20 | valdyn | its something else |
| 08:29.32 | valdyn | vpn is vpn, no matter the underlying protocol |
| 08:29.35 | grishnav | openvpn running in tcp or udp mode? |
| 08:29.41 | nextime | udp |
| 08:29.46 | grishnav | ok |
| 08:29.49 | *** join/#maemo MacDrunk (~marper@201.164.154.197) |
| 08:29.54 | grishnav | could be your provider isn't tracking the connection correctly |
| 08:30.00 | grishnav | can you get other traffic through? |
| 08:30.06 | grishnav | like can you ssh to your n90 when on hspa? |
| 08:30.08 | nextime | grishnav : yep, tcp and udp are working |
| 08:30.13 | grishnav | hrm |
| 08:30.15 | grishnav | weird |
| 08:30.19 | nextime | also icmp from n900 to server |
| 08:30.26 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 08:30.37 | *** join/#maemo MacDrunk (~marper@201.164.154.197) |
| 08:30.37 | grishnav | are there any firewall rules on the server? |
| 08:30.43 | nextime | and also if i ping from the server to n900 with a tcpdump -nvvvi tun0 on the n900 side |
| 08:30.47 | valdyn | nextime: did you already look if icmp echo replies are en- or disabled? |
| 08:30.48 | nextime | i see the icmp packets coming |
| 08:31.05 | nextime | valdyn : are enabled |
| 08:31.09 | grishnav | ok |
| 08:31.24 | grishnav | weird |
| 08:31.55 | grishnav | are you running iptables ora nything on the n900? |
| 08:31.57 | valdyn | maybe traffic is not really going thru that vpn tunnel |
| 08:32.29 | grishnav | yeah |
| 08:32.42 | grishnav | where is the openvpn "server"? is it on the internet, or on your home lan? |
| 08:32.47 | grishnav | and what is the addressing of your home lan? |
| 08:33.14 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 08:33.16 | valdyn | nextime: look at route -n output |
| 08:33.24 | nextime | grishnav : it is a dedicated server on internet |
| 08:33.32 | nextime | valdyn : already double checked |
| 08:33.34 | grishnav | ok, that blows that theory. :p |
| 08:33.56 | valdyn | nextime: ok, thats not useful, you need to paste these things somewhere for us to look at |
| 08:34.07 | grishnav | who is your hspa provider? |
| 08:35.07 | nextime | grishnav : vodafone |
| 08:35.20 | nextime | but i think it is irrilevant as the tunnel is established |
| 08:35.38 | grishnav | yeah, it should be |
| 08:35.53 | grishnav | unless they are handing you a private ip that happens to be the same subnet you decided to use for your vpn |
| 08:36.00 | grishnav | but that's unlikely |
| 08:36.25 | nextime | no, the for two reason: first other connection (tcp/udp) are working on the same pair of ip |
| 08:36.25 | valdyn | routing on the mobile phone subnet is "weird" |
| 08:36.37 | nextime | and anyway, gprs0 is on the 10/8 subnet |
| 08:36.48 | grishnav | they hand you a private IP? |
| 08:36.49 | grishnav | that sucks. |
| 08:36.59 | nextime | grishnav : yep, vodafone use nat |
| 08:37.06 | grishnav | that sucks hard, lol |
| 08:37.10 | grishnav | but it shouldn't matter |
| 08:37.38 | nextime | grishnav : but i have public ip from vpn and 7.2 megs of connection for just 3 euro/week |
| 08:37.45 | nextime | so, it's acceptable to be inside a nat |
| 08:37.45 | nextime | :D |
| 08:37.57 | valdyn | nextime: where is your route -n output? |
| 08:38.11 | nextime | Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface |
| 08:38.11 | nextime | 192.168.228.3 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 tun0 |
| 08:38.11 | nextime | 94.23.194.106 10.150.46.21 255.255.255.255 UGH 0 0 0 gprs0 |
| 08:38.11 | nextime | 10.150.46.21 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 gprs0 |
| 08:38.11 | nextime | 0.0.0.0 192.168.228.3 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 tun0 |
| 08:38.21 | valdyn | ack, not here... |
| 08:38.26 | nextime | where 94.23.194.106 is the server |
| 08:38.35 | nextime | ( sorry for the paste, it was four lines.. ) |
| 08:38.59 | *** join/#maemo krutt (~mk@91-65-137-39-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 08:39.05 | *** join/#maemo krutt (~mk@unaffiliated/red-zack) |
| 08:40.01 | valdyn | nextime: if 94.* is your server, then traffic to that host is route through gprs0, not through the tun0 |
| 08:40.32 | nextime | valdyn : yesm as you can see it is routed to gprs0 |
| 08:41.42 | Dantonic | Any idea why my N900s bluetooth would no longer transmit calls to a paired device, after having tried streaming Media over Bluetooth? |
| 08:41.59 | Dantonic | it just won't transmit the audio from phone calls |
| 08:45.55 | nextime | OK |
| 08:46.07 | nextime | weird, but i found the problem |
| 08:46.21 | nextime | reducing the tun mtu to 1164 |
| 08:46.27 | nextime | ping is working. |
| 08:46.44 | nextime | so, it was a fragmentation issue |
| 08:47.02 | grishnav | that is weird |
| 08:47.18 | grishnav | enable the openvpn mtu-test option and see what it detects |
| 08:48.47 | nextime | yep, now i will investigate deeply, the important thing is that i found the direction |
| 08:48.48 | nextime | :) |
| 08:49.10 | nextime | i have one more issue to solve with the sip client now |
| 08:49.11 | *** join/#maemo Termana (~Bradley@CPE-121-221-146-120.lns2.pie.bigpond.net.au) |
| 08:49.31 | nextime | it send register request with the gprs0 address even over vpn |
| 08:49.36 | nextime | so, it doesn't work |
| 08:52.40 | grishnav | what are you using for the other endpoint? asterisk? |
| 08:53.28 | *** join/#maemo silbo__ (~quassel@193.40.244.205) |
| 08:53.35 | nextime | yep |
| 08:53.37 | grishnav | hmm |
| 08:53.49 | grishnav | well I'm not sure why the sip client int he n900 is putting the wrong address in the URI |
| 08:54.02 | grishnav | but you can probably use nat=yes in the asterisk peer config for the phone to work around it |
| 08:54.04 | nextime | grishnav : it is a know bug on sophia-sup |
| 08:54.07 | nextime | sip |
| 08:54.16 | nextime | yes, i'm trying with the asterisk nat helper |
| 08:54.17 | grishnav | http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Asterisk+sip+nat |
| 08:56.27 | nextime | yep, i know very well *, thanks :) |
| 08:56.58 | *** join/#maemo bergie (~bergie@dsl-hkibrasgw2-fef3de00-234.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 08:57.22 | nextime | an iptables masquerade on the tun interface of the n900 + a nat=yes in asterisk server side do the job. |
| 08:57.42 | *** join/#maemo choppa_ (~chigge@p5491F72C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:58.36 | *** join/#maemo jpe (~jpe@94-224-243-55.access.telenet.be) |
| 09:00.58 | *** join/#maemo hurbu (~hurbanza@88-149-236-98.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 09:03.49 | grishnav | not sure why you would need the masq but glad you got it workin'. :) |
| 09:04.27 | nextime | grishnav : cause nat helper on the asterisk side get the source ip and use that for rtp instead on the one that the client send inside the registration request |
| 09:04.48 | nextime | but also the source ip is the gprs0 one if i don't put a masquerade rule on the tun0 |
| 09:04.59 | nextime | so, i need to also masquerade the source ip |
| 09:06.04 | nextime | anyway, just tryed a call to a mobile phone of my brother with: |
| 09:06.26 | nextime | n900 connected with hsdpa, the sip client register to the asterisk server @ my home |
| 09:06.34 | nextime | the n900 is over vpn with a remote server |
| 09:06.42 | nextime | my home is connected in vpn with the same server |
| 09:06.54 | nextime | the call is ok, not too latence, acceptable quality |
| 09:06.56 | nextime | :) |
| 09:07.48 | nextime | now i just need two asterisk config to redirect also my office number and internal numbers |
| 09:07.54 | nextime | and all it's in the way i need |
| 09:07.55 | nextime | :D |
| 09:08.10 | *** part/#maemo Dawnmist (~Dawnmist@210.1.195.174) |
| 09:12.08 | *** join/#maemo me1ne (~Miranda@p549216B7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:12.48 | *** join/#maemo lpotter_ (~quackquac@CPE-58-173-176-56.wucz1.woo.bigpond.net.au) |
| 09:13.15 | grishnav | nice |
| 09:24.26 | *** join/#maemo zs (~zs@188-220-50-10.zone11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 09:25.05 | corecode | FAT: Filesystem error (dev mmcblk0p1) fat_get_cluster: invalid cluster chain (i_pos 0) |
| 09:25.09 | corecode | anybody had that? |
| 09:28.51 | corecode | hm |
| 09:28.57 | corecode | had to fsck from host |
| 09:33.21 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@BSN-143-118-191.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 09:33.23 | Duckboot | corecode: OC'ed? |
| 09:33.43 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 09:37.49 | corecode | the error was misleading |
| 09:38.07 | corecode | it complained about mmcblk0p1, but it ment mmcblk1p1 |
| 09:45.35 | *** join/#maemo rd (~rd@p57B498ED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:47.37 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B08D480.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:47.46 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 09:50.45 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@dsl-roibrasgw1-ff96c100-143.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 09:52.39 | AntiPudd1ng | dies laughing http://pics.nase-bohren.de/dixie.jpg |
| 09:52.48 | Jaffa | Morning, al |
| 09:52.51 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 09:54.11 | *** join/#maemo arachnist (arachnist@paludis/monkey/arachnist) |
| 09:54.32 | *** join/#maemo jonne (~jonne@91.182.7.15) |
| 10:03.38 | *** join/#maemo gour (~gour@78-0-254-164.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 10:05.32 | *** join/#maemo fuz_ (nobody@vau75-10-88-164-23-88.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:07.54 | alterego | Aloha |
| 10:08.00 | alterego | What a night ... |
| 10:10.21 | *** join/#maemo andrei1089 (~andrei108@81.18.92.10) |
| 10:14.06 | th3hate | I removed media player by mistake and restored it using apt-get install mediaplayer.. but the wiget is still missing (media player widget) |
| 10:14.09 | th3hate | how to restore it? |
| 10:14.22 | *** join/#maemo otep (~otep@AP-203.167.31.158.sysads.com) |
| 10:15.34 | Sargun_Screen | haha |
| 10:17.51 | *** join/#maemo Dialekt (~Dialekt@cpe-98-149-177-57.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 10:29.42 | *** join/#maemo marcus (~marcus@0x573ebd02.cpe.ge-0-2-0-1104.mrbnqu1.customer.tele.dk) |
| 10:29.44 | marcus | Heya |
| 10:29.56 | marcus | Is the Nokia N-Series theme /usr/share/themes/default? |
| 10:30.15 | marcus | Like, Digital Nature theme is /usr/share/themes/beta |
| 10:30.36 | *** join/#maemo bilboed-tp (~bilboed@95.136.153.103) |
| 10:35.29 | alterego | marcus yes, I believe so. |
| 10:36.05 | eitama | Hello, anyone knows How do I specify libqtm-contacts in the .pro file in qt-creator? |
| 10:36.07 | marcus | altergo: For some reason, it has not got a images/ foldes inside. |
| 10:38.30 | *** join/#maemo mlpug (~mlpug@a88-115-164-40.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 10:40.24 | gour | anyone using emacs' org-mode on n900? |
| 10:47.04 | *** join/#maemo gour1 (~gour@78-0-193-95.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 10:50.22 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 10:51.32 | MohammadAG51 | <marcus> Is the Nokia N-Series theme /usr/share/themes/default? |
| 10:51.32 | MohammadAG51 | alpha |
| 10:52.18 | marcus | Aha, thanks! |
| 10:52.36 | marcus | Perfect. Replacing the launcher icon with an Arch icon :3 |
| 10:53.35 | alterego | Woo my package is in extras :D |
| 10:54.07 | MohammadAG51 | yw :) |
| 10:54.22 | marcus | MohammedAG51: Will "cp * /usr/share/themes/alpha/images/" copy all from the current dir? |
| 10:55.46 | marcus | MohammadAG51: Will "cp * /usr/share/themes/alpha/images/" copy all from the current dir? |
| 10:55.52 | marcus | A instead of E, sorry. |
| 10:56.33 | valdyn | marcus: no it wont |
| 10:57.07 | marcus | valdyn: How come? Does it require "cp *.png /PATH/UND/SO/WEITER" |
| 10:57.14 | valdyn | marcus: cp -R ./ /usr/share/themes/alpha/images/ |
| 10:57.36 | marcus | That would be a folder, wouldn't it? |
| 10:57.36 | MohammadAG51 | yes, to /usr/......../images/ |
| 10:57.43 | marcus | I only want the files. |
| 10:57.57 | marcus | So it would work with my example, aye? |
| 10:58.01 | MohammadAG51 | if there are folders add -r before * |
| 10:58.10 | valdyn | marcus: probably for that case, but that just is not "all" |
| 10:58.30 | marcus | valdyn: You are right :-) I meant all files, thanks for pointing that out! |
| 10:58.32 | valdyn | marcus: and its -r , not -R oops |
| 10:59.31 | marcus | I'm just a little scared using all these commands, as I'm on root in SSH. |
| 11:00.30 | valdyn | globbing is easy to get wrong |
| 11:00.43 | MohammadAG51 | why wouldn't it... |
| 11:00.55 | marcus | Yes, indeed. |
| 11:03.07 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk) |
| 11:03.35 | MohammadAG51 | Yes |
| 11:06.59 | lcuk | wonders how this opened |
| 11:07.18 | jacekowski | is X-Fade around? |
| 11:08.19 | MohammadAG51 | it's a saturday |
| 11:08.20 | MohammadAG51 | kicks lcuk |
| 11:08.41 | lcuk | slaps MohammadAG51 with a frals |
| 11:09.11 | jacekowski | does anybody else know how to configure wanna-build + buildd + sbmdmock + scratchbox +whatever else is requred to work together? |
| 11:09.17 | MohammadAG51 | takes a shower |
| 11:09.17 | MohammadAG51 | damn fishy smell |
| 11:09.54 | lcuk | MohammadAG51, we dont normally like to complain :P |
| 11:10.00 | MohammadAG51 | err, huh? |
| 11:10.02 | lcuk | but you *do* have stink lines today |
| 11:10.13 | MohammadAG51 | lcuk, did I hurt his feeling? |
| 11:10.18 | MohammadAG51 | +s |
| 11:10.23 | lcuk | whos |
| 11:10.43 | MohammadAG51 | trouty |
| 11:10.51 | jacekowski | don't worry about that |
| 11:10.56 | MohammadAG51 | frals :P |
| 11:11.02 | lcuk | nahh |
| 11:11.05 | jacekowski | you have to learn to don't care |
| 11:11.13 | jacekowski | i don't care |
| 11:11.20 | lcuk | jacekowski, are you trying to make an autobuilder |
| 11:11.31 | jacekowski | lcuk: yes |
| 11:12.02 | lcuk | i tihnk all the details were posted - jebba managed to get it all working afaik |
| 11:12.07 | jacekowski | and so wanna-build is giving me a lot of grief |
| 11:12.21 | jacekowski | so far* |
| 11:12.23 | MohammadAG51 | isn't the autobuilder scratchbox + some scripts |
| 11:12.29 | jacekowski | MohammadAG51: yep |
| 11:12.40 | jacekowski | that "some scripts" is the part that is causing problems |
| 11:12.54 | jacekowski | Database for unstable doesn't exist |
| 11:12.54 | jacekowski | Jun 17 19:20:01 buildd[6657]: wanna-build --list=needs-build --dist=unstable failed; status 2/0 |
| 11:12.57 | jacekowski | Jun 17 19:20:01 buildd[6657]: Nothing to do -- sleeping 300 seconds |
| 11:13.10 | jacekowski | but if i do su buildd |
| 11:13.14 | jacekowski | and then use same sommand |
| 11:13.22 | jacekowski | i have different error |
| 11:13.38 | jacekowski | well, not an error, just information that there is nothing to do |
| 11:13.48 | *** join/#maemo joschi (~quassel@zuse.schalanda.name) |
| 11:16.53 | crashanddie | heh... My ISP is really run by nerds... Look at the time on the modem: http://www.free.fr/adsl/ |
| 11:17.00 | crashanddie | "1337", "leet" |
| 11:17.41 | ZogG | MohammadAG51 \Ñ/ |
| 11:17.45 | ZogG | \о/ |
| 11:18.00 | alterego | I think I'm going to redo the UI for my app in C++, Python/PySide loading times are awful. |
| 11:18.29 | crashanddie | why C++? |
| 11:18.35 | alterego | Qt |
| 11:18.36 | crashanddie | just do specific parts in C and call it from Python |
| 11:18.39 | jacekowski | because python sucks |
| 11:19.03 | jacekowski | i vote for tpm in n900 that disallows executing of any python software |
| 11:19.04 | jacekowski | and perl |
| 11:19.14 | crashanddie | python doesn't suck |
| 11:19.25 | jacekowski | well, everything that starts with p |
| 11:19.31 | crashanddie | it's a fun language that made programming fun again for anyone who's developed for more than a couple of years |
| 11:19.32 | alterego | It's a config editor, written in Qt, the whole thing can be done in C++ very easy, with the plus side of it being a lot quicker. |
| 11:19.33 | jacekowski | perl, python, php |
| 11:20.06 | crashanddie | PyQt is horrible, though, a bastard language that shouldn't have seen the light of day |
| 11:20.09 | alterego | Ruby is far superior |
| 11:20.10 | crashanddie | disclaimer: I've never really used it. |
| 11:20.19 | crashanddie | ruby is bollocks on a string |
| 11:20.23 | jacekowski | alterego: r looks almost like a p |
| 11:20.33 | alterego | it's the bollocks indeed :P |
| 11:20.34 | crashanddie | jacekowski: you too are bollocks on a string :P |
| 11:20.45 | jacekowski | i don't believe in intepreted stuff |
| 11:20.50 | jacekowski | it has to be real code |
| 11:20.55 | jacekowski | like C or C++ or asm |
| 11:21.08 | alterego | Ruby is far better than python, it's just not as mature or widespread. |
| 11:21.13 | lcuk | crashanddie, pyqt isnt a language |
| 11:21.31 | lcuk | python is decent and the qt aspect adds niceness |
| 11:21.32 | crashanddie | that's what I said |
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| 11:21.39 | crashanddie | I said a bastard language :P |
| 11:21.40 | crashanddie | so not really a language |
| 11:21.42 | crashanddie | a halfing |
| 11:21.45 | crashanddie | halfling |
| 11:21.47 | lcuk | fair |
| 11:21.55 | lcuk | pygtk before it? |
| 11:22.00 | crashanddie | shivers |
| 11:22.05 | alterego | Does PyQt segfault as much as PySide? |
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| 11:22.23 | crashanddie | lcuk: the fact that python segfaults because of Qt is enough of a warning for me |
| 11:22.26 | ZogG | i say Chinese is a language =) |
| 11:23.11 | alterego | crashanddie: it is painful. |
| 11:23.26 | lcuk | alterego, pickup a pair of swords and try swinging them round your head |
| 11:23.38 | alterego | Heh |
| 11:23.40 | lcuk | im certain you will lose some kind of limb or bodypart |
| 11:24.00 | lcuk | pyqt is similar - you have to be a trained ninja :p |
| 11:24.21 | alterego | It's very poor extension development when it actually causes predictable segfaults because of it's naff object handling. |
| 11:25.10 | alterego | It's awful, I'm thinking of ressurecting Ruby/Maemo just to use Qt in a decent interpreted language :P |
| 11:25.28 | lcuk | alterego, why not write native qt? |
| 11:25.46 | alterego | lcuk: on device hacking mainly. |
| 11:26.04 | lcuk | sure |
| 11:26.04 | alterego | Sometimes I just want to write something on the move. |
| 11:26.13 | lcuk | i know that feeling :) |
| 11:26.33 | alterego | For anything major I'll use Nokia Qt SDK becuase then you've got the designer. |
| 11:27.07 | alterego | If we had a Qt designer for N900 I'd be very happy. |
| 11:27.27 | alterego | Just need those .ui files ^.^ |
| 11:27.39 | lcuk | on device designing is ... a good thing :) |
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| 11:28.27 | alterego | Indeed, makes for the best user interfaces :) |
| 11:28.59 | alterego | A because you're trying to be as succinct as you can and b) because you've got the real environment. |
| 11:29.22 | lcuk | alterego, problem with designers though is that you dont have the entire surface available |
| 11:29.27 | alterego | I pretty much coded the whole of the Media Im Status Updater on the device in Vi one afternoon. :) |
| 11:29.43 | lcuk | at least on a larger slate you can show entire 1:1 tablet screen + all tools around |
| 11:29.53 | alterego | Yeah |
| 11:30.16 | alterego | Maybe we could use tv out :) |
| 11:30.49 | lcuk | its hardly on the go then is it :p |
| 11:30.58 | lcuk | but, yeah that works nicely |
| 11:31.06 | lcuk | tv out can show different info the normal tablet ui |
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| 11:34.55 | alterego | I'd quite like to write some apps that can drive the tvout separately actually. |
| 11:35.04 | lcuk | alterego, i already have one |
| 11:35.10 | *** join/#maemo cjdavis (~cjdavis@72.49.163.154) |
| 11:35.16 | alterego | You've managed it, how would I go about it. |
| 11:35.21 | alterego | ? |
| 11:35.34 | lcuk | apt-get install libliqbase1-dev ;) write in c |
| 11:35.44 | lcuk | apt-get build-essential (on device) |
| 11:35.46 | lcuk | make .. |
| 11:35.47 | alterego | ghey ... :P |
| 11:36.14 | frals | trouts MohammadAG51 with lcuk |
| 11:36.22 | lcuk | nice, gmorning frals |
| 11:36.26 | alterego | Is it possible to drive the TV out using a GLES context? |
| 11:36.30 | frals | afternoon o/ |
| 11:36.41 | *** join/#maemo kW_ (~kW@pD9EAC271.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:36.50 | frals | fuckin hell im actually glad im in finland today |
| 11:36.51 | lcuk | alterego, perhaps you would have to look |
| 11:36.58 | lcuk | frals, rly |
| 11:36.58 | lcuk | why |
| 11:37.04 | alterego | Heh |
| 11:37.04 | frals | whole stockholm is a complete mess due to royal wedding |
| 11:37.27 | lcuk | why are they having your wedding when you arent in the country :p |
| 11:37.33 | frals | ;D |
| 11:37.35 | lcuk | or is that the point :p |
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| 11:41.41 | alterego | Cool, the latest Linux Format has quite a few interesting articles. |
| 11:42.11 | alterego | lcuk: is it hard to drive the tvout seperately? Will the normal TV-OUT service get in the way at all? |
| 11:43.39 | lcuk | alterego, i found out by accident |
| 11:44.04 | alterego | Sure, but you've done it :P |
| 11:44.06 | lcuk | on the device, the normal apps that drive the YUV overlay close themselves when you pan to dashboard and back to "normal" rgb |
| 11:44.19 | alterego | Right |
| 11:44.21 | lcuk | but i found out when i run liq* apps, and pan back |
| 11:44.26 | lcuk | the yuv continues running |
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| 11:44.38 | lcuk | and the on device screen shows regular desktop |
| 11:44.54 | alterego | Hahah |
| 11:44.56 | alterego | Okay |
| 11:45.18 | alterego | I wonder why that is |
| 11:45.38 | lcuk | because i didnt stop the overlay |
| 11:46.12 | alterego | Oh, right |
| 11:47.24 | frals | giggle, fmms downloads: 366667! |
| 11:48.11 | lcuk | lol frals |
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| 11:48.28 | frals | lcuk: :D |
| 11:49.07 | w00t_ | frals: did you see my note on twitter? |
| 11:49.35 | frals | uh, maybe? ;D |
| 11:49.52 | SpeedEvil | I need to put together my 'download package log and app stats, and work out how many users it has' script |
| 11:49.56 | w00t_ | facebook says: 8,371 facebrick users as of yesterday |
| 11:49.58 | *** join/#maemo cjdavis (~cjdavis@72.49.163.154) |
| 11:50.18 | frals | w00t_: cool :> grats! |
| 11:50.26 | SpeedEvil | One person at least is using my compile of wpa_supplicant |
| 11:50.29 | frals | wishes he had someway of knowing # of users |
| 11:50.43 | screwgoth | Damn !! how can you build the Maemo pre-alpha2 root filessystem without the alpha repos ? |
| 11:50.57 | frals | download stats seems to update rather sporadically |
| 11:51.01 | SpeedEvil | frals: I think saying >25k is probably sane |
| 11:52.17 | SpeedEvil | google command line thingy is nice. |
| 11:52.26 | lcuk | screwgoth, jacekowski is doing some autobuilder stuffs |
| 11:52.51 | lcuk | slightly different level i bet, but there may be some crossover in info |
| 11:53.05 | screwgoth | Oh, so the repos have been recently moved ? |
| 11:53.10 | alterego | I have one download :P |
| 11:53.27 | alterego | And that was me .... |
| 11:53.34 | SpeedEvil | downloads alterego. |
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| 11:55.50 | lcuk | crikey! |
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| 11:56.09 | lcuk | bioinformatics companies offering me licenses for things |
| 11:56.40 | th3hate | has tweakr stopped working for anyone? it stopped snapping icons to grid here :S |
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| 12:00.17 | Shapeshifter | Can anyone living in the UK recommend a carrier that offers a prepaid-based mobile internet plan? Something like, buy a sim, load it with 10 bucks, buy a one-month flat for 9.99? |
| 12:01.02 | alterego | Oo, 3 downloads :J |
| 12:01.05 | lcuk | Shapeshifter, on o2 |
| 12:01.14 | lcuk | i have PAYG |
| 12:01.20 | lcuk | and if you top up £15 |
| 12:01.26 | alterego | Shapeshifter: Vodafone do it too I think. |
| 12:01.31 | lcuk | you can get a bolton for unlimited texts/internet |
| 12:01.35 | SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: Is 1G/mo enough? |
| 12:01.51 | Shapeshifter | mhh, nice. yeah I doubt I need more then 300mb |
| 12:02.00 | SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: t-mobile offer a 20 quid for 6 months booster |
| 12:02.17 | *** join/#maemo noctule (~noctule@genkt-056-003.t-mobile.co.uk) |
| 12:02.18 | SpeedEvil | So you get a free SIM, top up with 20 quid, apply the booster, and you're good for 6 months |
| 12:02.24 | Shapeshifter | mh I just need it for a week, really. Maybe I'll not get one at all but if it's cheap, I might. |
| 12:02.40 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 12:02.40 | SpeedEvil | http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/payg/boosters/ |
| 12:02.41 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 12:02.41 | Shapeshifter | SpeedEvil: that is quite cheap |
| 12:02.43 | Shapeshifter | thanks |
| 12:02.50 | SpeedEvil | they also do it for - IIRC - a fiver a week |
| 12:03.16 | Shapeshifter | 2.50 for 5 days is good |
| 12:03.25 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 12:03.55 | Shapeshifter | thanks guys. |
| 12:04.06 | SpeedEvil | np |
| 12:16.09 | alterego | fff, found all the episodes for Fringe season 2 except episode 16. |
| 12:16.15 | alterego | w t f :) |
| 12:16.21 | alterego | I need a coffee. |
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| 12:24.40 | vldcnst | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=721554&postcount=25 |
| 12:24.42 | vldcnst | oh my. |
| 12:25.39 | rodald | hi everyone i am trying to flash my device but nothing happens i am using the Maemo Flasher 3.5 but nothing seems to happen should it be somthing indicating that its flashing or something because all i got its the permision request from windows to run |
| 12:26.27 | ShadowJK | Uh, sounds like you just clicked it? |
| 12:26.43 | rodald | what do you mean with clicked? |
| 12:27.06 | ShadowJK | Well you're not supposed to click on it, it's not a graphical program |
| 12:27.15 | alterego | Heh |
| 12:27.21 | ShadowJK | It's only usable from shell/commandline/etc |
| 12:27.29 | rodald | oh no i run the comand line on the flasher |
| 12:27.49 | alterego | No, you run the flasher on the command lkine :P |
| 12:27.50 | ShadowJK | Ok, and yes, it's supposed to say stuff there :/ |
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| 12:37.33 | pupnik | arbeiten! |
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| 12:41.41 | lcukn900 | pupnik gmorning \o #liqbase has a very much alive kotczarny in it |
| 12:42.02 | pupnik | cool |
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| 13:01.55 | pupnik | is there a weather radar app (storms, rain) for maemo? |
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| 13:08.28 | th3hate_ | weatherbug in ovi store |
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| 13:09.07 | ham5 | ? |
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| 13:20.05 | marcus | Heya guys, is it correct that you can't play opengles games on pr1.2? When installing ioquake3, it says: "The following packages have unmet dependencies: liblges1-sgx-img:" |
| 13:20.20 | marcus | I read somewhere on the forums, that it did not work on pr1.2 yet. |
| 13:23.06 | Stskeeps | there is a gles1 problem afaik |
| 13:23.48 | alterego | Is it a serious issue? I was going to do some gles stuff tonight :P |
| 13:23.53 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 13:24.47 | marcus | alterego: I do not know what the real problem is, but for some reason I have seen that people can't install/make Quake3 work. |
| 13:25.25 | alterego | hrm, okay I'll take a look. |
| 13:26.09 | GAN900 | Probably never be fixed, either. |
| 13:26.39 | BCMM | what is the control scheme for quake3, by the way? |
| 13:27.22 | alterego | I still reckon we'll get a PR1.3 at the least. |
| 13:27.41 | marcus | BCMM: I'm pretty sure the accelerometer is in use for movement. The light sensor is for shooting. |
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| 13:27.50 | Stskeeps | GAN900: you remind me way too much of marvin the paranoid android |
| 13:27.58 | BCMM | ok, that's weird enough for me to want to install it |
| 13:28.39 | GAN900 | Stskeeps, it's not paranoid if it's supported by history. |
| 13:29.29 | alterego | GAN900: They have to support N900 longer as it's a proper handset I reckon. |
| 13:29.48 | GAN900 | alterego, we'll see. |
| 13:30.11 | GAN900 | So far nothing they've done has shown much of a commitment to that. |
| 13:30.37 | alterego | Yeah, I guess we will. :) |
| 13:31.17 | kW_ | Hello! Does anybody has successfully established synchronization of contacts and calendar appointments between N900 and any linux application? |
| 13:31.27 | alterego | The N900 will probably be my primary for at least another year and a half. |
| 13:31.47 | GAN900 | Nokia's long since moved on as a company, however. |
| 13:32.04 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@80-218-54-193.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 13:33.11 | alterego | If they fail to release more updates for it even just bug fixes, they're going to effectively force a lot of normal users to use our MeeGo community supported dist, which is a bad idea. I really think they'll have to put at least Qt 4.7 on it, which Ki thought I heard slated for PR1.3 |
| 13:33.39 | marcus | MeeGo will be more closed source, right? |
| 13:33.47 | Stskeeps | less |
| 13:34.11 | marcus | Less closed source? |
| 13:34.12 | alterego | As the developer community will be moving to MeeGo as soon as we can. We're going to leave a lot of normal users in the llurch |
| 13:34.17 | kW_ | Well, how usable is MeeGo currently? |
| 13:34.27 | GAN900 | kW_, define MeeGo |
| 13:34.32 | GAN900 | For handsets, not |
| 13:34.43 | GAN900 | The UX is still closed for some stupid reason |
| 13:35.00 | GAN900 | alterego, I don't think they particularly care, personally. |
| 13:35.03 | kW_ | GAN900: MeeGo as in http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/core/images/meego-n900-open-armv7l/ |
| 13:35.08 | MarvinTheParanoi | Stskeeps: that can't be GAN900 :-P |
| 13:35.25 | GAN900 | What's a Paranoi? |
| 13:35.26 | Jaffa | marcus: AIUI, the issue with OpenGLES is that some third party apps specified exact version dependency, which has now moved on |
| 13:35.29 | alterego | GAN900: well, I hope enough of them care enough to influence those that do not. |
| 13:35.36 | valdyn | kW_: theres no graphical UI in that |
| 13:35.53 | kW_ | valdyn: oh, so it is not usable from a user's point-of-view? |
| 13:36.00 | marcus | Jaffa: Aha, crap, but good to know that it is only some apps that are affected. |
| 13:36.02 | GAN900 | alterego, I think the core issue is that upper management doesn't care and there's a lot of belt tightening going on. |
| 13:36.09 | valdyn | kW_: correct |
| 13:36.44 | GAN900 | and what's the best place to start tightening? ;) |
| 13:36.53 | alterego | GAN900: sure I agree, the issue is obviously middle management. |
| 13:36.58 | MarvinTheParanoi | GAN900: MarvinTheParanoidAndroid |
| 13:37.04 | alterego | N97 support :P |
| 13:37.17 | GAN900 | MarvinTheParanoi, yes, yes. I get it. |
| 13:37.20 | alterego | And all other symbian phone lines :) |
| 13:37.27 | GAN900 | alterego, higher up than that, I think. |
| 13:37.37 | MarvinTheParanoi | GAN900: blame freenode for not supporting 138chars in nick |
| 13:37.45 | GAN900 | Anssi and friends. |
| 13:37.46 | alterego | Hah |
| 13:37.51 | GAN900 | MarvinTheParanoi, yes, I know. :P |
| 13:38.02 | GAN900 | Anssi the Dinosaur |
| 13:38.23 | alterego | Heh. |
| 13:39.21 | alterego | Where's this bloody bus, I want to be home already. |
| 13:39.47 | alterego | They should stick GPS' in buses we can track. |
| 13:40.37 | pupnik | that would be customer service |
| 13:40.40 | Corsac | Ansi or Anssi ? |
| 13:40.42 | alterego | Heh |
| 13:40.59 | pupnik | can't have that now |
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| 13:42.12 | alterego | Why don't we have something like the desktop Ovi maps for the N900 wiith the mashup capabilities :( |
| 13:43.49 | GAN900 | Corsac, Anssi Vanjoki |
| 13:44.02 | Corsac | oh |
| 13:44.05 | marcus | What is ~/cities for? |
| 13:44.06 | Corsac | not the agency |
| 13:44.20 | marcus | The GPS? |
| 13:45.53 | alterego | marcus: it contains all of the map data |
| 13:46.23 | DocScrutinizer | I thought even ANSII |
| 13:46.26 | marcus | alterego: And if I removed it, I guess it would just DL it again when I launch the Ovi maps thingy? |
| 13:46.54 | alterego | marcus: yes, though I just download all the maps for europe and stick it in there. |
| 13:47.19 | alterego | Saves you having to download maps when/if you cant. |
| 13:47.23 | marcus | And you get that from the Ovi site, aye+ |
| 13:47.53 | alterego | No, I had to manually do it, you can get the files by googling for it for S60 |
| 13:48.01 | marcus | Aha, okay. |
| 13:48.03 | alterego | Same data files. |
| 13:48.25 | alterego | I'll see if I can get the link |
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| 13:51.07 | RST38h | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/18/AR2010061805630.html?nav=igoogle |
| 13:51.34 | RST38h | WashPost delivers lulz again. |
| 13:54.24 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: lbt: I'm not surprised about few maemonians contributing to meego. Given the fact that whatever you ask for to discuss, no matter if it's ofono or PA, the answer is "let's build first version - *then* you can come up and discuss and convince us there's something better". We all know this isn't going to fly. Add to that the "heartly welcome" meego gave the maemo community as in replies to lbt's (and your) post about join... Where is |
| 13:54.25 | DocScrutinizer | meego heading at? |
| 13:55.09 | RST38h | Doc: besides, we already heard this when maemo5 was baking |
| 13:55.37 | RST38h | Doc: it is not like people have not voiced their concern about brain-damaged Maemo5 dialogs, for example |
| 13:55.50 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 13:56.26 | *** join/#maemo furunk3l (~furunk3l@HSI-KBW-091-089-039-063.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 13:56.32 | Arkenoi | I have a very strange question: is it possible to tie a script to sip registration? My cellular provider allows me to accept incoming calls via sip, but i have to set redirection status via http. |
| 13:56.33 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: go read about release process and schedules for why big changes arent made at this point |
| 14:00.06 | DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: should be possible (look for dbus scripting pkg/app), but I honestly doubt it will work, as it's hard to unset this redirection in case you lose SIP due to connectivity loss |
| 14:00.08 | *** join/#maemo lsm5 (~lsm5@cpe-74-77-136-217.buffalo.res.rr.com) |
| 14:00.29 | RST38h | Stskeeps: it is not like any explanation of nokia release process will make nokia look better in the eyes of n900 users |
| 14:00.42 | Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer, it's ok as redirection is reset authomatically on unregister |
| 14:00.53 | DocScrutinizer | ok then |
| 14:01.10 | RST38h | Stskeeps: If the release process leads to the majority of users being pissed off, then change the release process. |
| 14:01.29 | Stskeeps | RST38h: i don't care about nokia process, i was speaking meego |
| 14:01.41 | DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: there's a pkg called "dbus scripting *" or similar, it can start shellscripts on arbitrary d-bus events |
| 14:02.09 | alterego | What's wrong with m5 dialogs? Or is it specific app dialogs that are your concern? |
| 14:02.17 | RST38h | Stskeeps: Meego is not very interesting to the wide circle of users/developers until there is a device |
| 14:02.31 | RST38h | alterego: lots of space wasted |
| 14:02.41 | RST38h | alterego: not quite compatible with the gtk+ dialogs. |
| 14:02.53 | Stskeeps | RST38h: main topic was PA or ofono, in meego context |
| 14:03.00 | alterego | RST38h: well, device, or usable functioning system for a currennt device .. Like the N900 :) |
| 14:03.04 | RST38h | alterego: obviously do not work in portrait mode (see "lots of spae wasted") |
| 14:03.17 | alterego | :/ yeah. |
| 14:03.21 | Stskeeps | people have to realize a product has to be made, and a quality one |
| 14:03.42 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: (what's wrong) just look at time/date selector |
| 14:03.46 | RST38h | Stskeeps: Ok. Would you call Maemo5 a "quality product"? |
| 14:03.50 | RST38h | Software, I mean? |
| 14:03.57 | alterego | Well, as a devic the N900 is pretty awesome, even without HDMI :) |
| 14:03.58 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: about as wrong as it gets |
| 14:04.14 | Stskeeps | RST38h: yes, at least its more stable than what open community has been able to deliver |
| 14:04.16 | RST38h | As a device, it has no analogs |
| 14:04.22 | Stskeeps | not one that breaks randomly and is changing apis like britney spears changes underwear |
| 14:04.41 | RST38h | Stskeeps: The "open community" delivering things is a joke |
| 14:04.44 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@dau94-9-88-178-191-172.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:04.50 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Venemo@host-94-248-202-178.kabelnet.hu) |
| 14:05.00 | alterego | The group were being very, erm, brave when they tried clutterizing everything. That's why everything is so fudged, because it was effectively a complete rejig. |
| 14:05.01 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, the disconnect between the saying and doing kills me |
| 14:05.12 | alterego | I'm suprised they did as much as they did ... |
| 14:05.14 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: *nod* |
| 14:05.22 | RST38h | Stskeeps: But I absolutely insist that "breaks randomly" describes Maemo5 well |
| 14:05.26 | GAN900 | the response to attempts at participation from Maemo people isn't even vaguely encouraging. |
| 14:05.47 | alterego | They should however, at least bought ALL apps to the ssame level, PDF reader is a bloody joke. |
| 14:05.57 | RST38h | alterego: and it is not even clear why they did that thing with clutter |
| 14:06.15 | BCMM | one PDF at a time is weird |
| 14:06.18 | BCMM | evince is nice |
| 14:06.51 | BCMM | there are actually things i cannot effectively do in that pdf reader |
| 14:07.24 | BCMM | like read my university assignment from one PDF while looking at the formula sheet, which is a separate file |
| 14:08.11 | Stskeeps | RST38h: i don't really have the energy to discuss with you, nothing constructive ever comes out of those discussions, only bile, no initative. |
| 14:08.15 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM: at least the default one respects encryption and refuses to display e.g. the N900 schematics ;-P While evince displays nicely |
| 14:08.39 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: oh, PDF "encryption" is such a joke... |
| 14:09.27 | *** join/#maemo avs (~avs@a88-113-5-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:09.55 | alterego | RST38h: eye candy :P it was probably their road before meego took form. m5 was already pretty much done this time last year for instance. |
| 14:10.28 | BCMM | i use Okular on the desktop, which has a nice checkbox in the configuration "Obey DRM limitations" |
| 14:10.39 | alterego | Heh |
| 14:10.45 | kW_ | Does anybody know how to make the file-chooser of the user interface access the internal filesystem (e.g. "/home/user")? |
| 14:11.11 | BCMM | actually, i think there is actual encryption for PDFs, and there is also a series of "don't do this" flags, which people typically pretend is also a type of encryption |
| 14:11.23 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM: (multiple open pdf's) another attempt to implement properties on app level that the devels thought were wrong in OS. Here it's the winmobile concept of "one app wit one project at any time" |
| 14:11.25 | BCMM | the latter being the one people actually use |
| 14:11.44 | kW_ | BCMM: cool, I never realized this checkbox :-) |
| 14:11.58 | BCMM | PDF DRM is so, so, stupid |
| 14:12.02 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM: other prominent examples are tracker implementing a shadow filesystem, as the original isn't good enough |
| 14:12.43 | BCMM | and so many people seem to believe it is technically possible to "encrypt" something in such a way that you can decrypt and view it, but not decrypt and print it |
| 14:12.55 | marcus | Hmm, I remember having trouble to exit Open Arena and Quake 3, how is it that I do that? |
| 14:12.59 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: i don't know what "tracker" and "shadow filesystem" mean |
| 14:13.50 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM: nevermind, was random rant addressed to Nokia-unknown and rather unrelated to your point |
| 14:14.10 | marcus | Dunno if this is a stupid question, but isn't it possible for Nokia to port N-Gage to n900? |
| 14:14.16 | BCMM | aww, was kind of interested |
| 14:14.19 | marcus | http://www.n-gage.com/ |
| 14:14.24 | ShadowJK | I thought n-gage was dead.. |
| 14:14.40 | marcus | Dunno about that. |
| 14:14.47 | marcus | Still games out there, and n97 got n-gage |
| 14:15.28 | BCMM | n-gage is now an application? |
| 14:15.34 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 14:15.41 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM: ok: Nokia's latest recommendations are suggestion every app registers every file created at tracker (aka indexer), so we basically get two independent filesystems - the real fs tree and the tracker database |
| 14:15.44 | marcus | To download the N-Gage application, select your device below. You will be directed to a download page, where you will find instructions on how to install the N-Gage application onto your device. Support for additional N-Gage compatible devices is coming soon. |
| 14:15.58 | marcus | BCMM: Seems like it. |
| 14:15.59 | GAN900 | BCMM, dev kit and brand more like |
| 14:16.17 | *** join/#maemo richieeee72 (~richard@81.147.9.47) |
| 14:19.04 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM: the "hiding the OS" (what a strange take on that) is another example. If I'm unhappy with the user being even just able to *see* files/dirs in / then there for sure are better ways to cope with that than to cripple the systemwide fileselector lib so you think you're on a windoze shitsysem with drive letters |
| 14:20.11 | *** join/#maemo Khertan (~Khertan@AAmiens-155-1-46-87.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 14:20.14 | Khertan | Hi ! |
| 14:20.42 | Stskeeps | lo Khertan |
| 14:21.01 | RST38h | moo Khertan |
| 14:21.44 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: yeah, it's a bit strange |
| 14:21.45 | Khertan | I ve a question ... i'm trying to implement syntax checking by using pylint on KhtEditor ... but i didn't say any way to display information without eating too many space on source view ... any idea ? |
| 14:21.50 | Khertan | lo Stskeeps |
| 14:21.55 | Khertan | moo RST38h |
| 14:22.09 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: i kind of understand them doing things like renaming DCIM to Images |
| 14:22.21 | BCMM | but i guess that could've been done with symlinks |
| 14:22.41 | DocScrutinizer | yes, for sure. but even for this there's generic means like symlinks and dunnowhat |
| 14:22.51 | DocScrutinizer | exactly :-D |
| 14:22.53 | RST38h | they do it the symbian way |
| 14:23.13 | RST38h | laid off symbian people came to maemo devices and made 'em do it all the symbian way |
| 14:23.33 | RST38h | the file selection dialog, the directory names, the dialogs, the release schedule |
| 14:23.48 | DocScrutinizer | and that's extremely odd. They always try to mimic inferior OS and GUI instead of exploiting the genuine strengths of Linux |
| 14:24.04 | RST38h | Symbian is not inferior in any way |
| 14:24.12 | Khertan | Symbian is not inferior in any way <<< it is :) |
| 14:24.13 | RST38h | It has just been designed for a different usage scenario |
| 14:24.16 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: actually, it is a slightly interesting problem - they're obviously trying to prevent windows people saving stuff where they can't read it over MSC |
| 14:24.18 | DocScrutinizer | well, to some extent it is |
| 14:24.48 | RST38h | Symbian/S60 has been designed for using it with a traditional portrait-oriented phone, with a physical keypad and no touchscreen |
| 14:24.52 | kW_ | Does anybody know how to deal with "$MYDOCSDIR"? |
| 14:24.55 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: and mounting and symlinks are familiar concepts to me, but actually slightly difficult concepts if you haven't met them before |
| 14:24.58 | RST38h | That is where it excels |
| 14:25.02 | Khertan | But they let windows people deleting the wrong file due to hiding extension :) |
| 14:25.05 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: ack |
| 14:25.28 | RST38h | Attempts to shoehorn Symbian/S60 onto touchscreen devices have been somewhat awkward |
| 14:25.36 | RST38h | Although I have to admit that 5800 works well |
| 14:25.49 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM: yep, and who ever heard of ACL |
| 14:26.10 | *** join/#maemo Mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:26.31 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: i'm not quite sure how they are relevant |
| 14:26.49 | DocScrutinizer | e.g. to "hide OS from user" |
| 14:27.15 | Mece | hello maemites |
| 14:27.33 | BCMM | i certainly don't mind the file open dialog only showing the home dir |
| 14:27.40 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM: if you really feel you have to do that |
| 14:27.40 | BCMM | (in terms of hiding the OS) |
| 14:27.47 | *** join/#maemo jonne (~jonne@91.182.7.15) |
| 14:28.16 | BCMM | since UI stuff shouldn't have permission to write outside there anyway |
| 14:28.22 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM: it doesn't (show ~) |
| 14:29.14 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM: and the perms are exactly the point. If user can't write / delete there anyway, why stop him from reading there then? |
| 14:29.29 | DocScrutinizer | EVEN HIS OWN HOME!!! |
| 14:30.17 | BCMM | not being able to use UI stuff in ~/ is really annoying |
| 14:30.43 | BCMM | the best solution would be to make Windows support a proper filesystem on mass-storage devices |
| 14:30.51 | BCMM | </troll> |
| 14:31.00 | DocScrutinizer | that's like my landlord explains to me in my flat here's all the megacritical infrastruct I shouldn't touch and I have to keep out of there and camp in a tent on the lawn |
| 14:31.04 | *** join/#maemo kevloral (~kevloral@254.85-85-185.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
| 14:31.17 | kevloral | Hi all |
| 14:31.29 | Mece | ÑÑн пгнÑб ÑÑÑебб Ñл ÑÑÑе вгÑÑÑ ÑÑÑ ÐµÑ ÑÑÑеÑÑ ÐµÑÑÑ Ñаабб |
| 14:31.37 | DocScrutinizer | aaayes |
| 14:32.00 | Mece | ok |
| 14:32.04 | *** join/#maemo bunn4 (~dqweqw@c-24-218-235-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 14:32.16 | Mece | right |
| 14:32.25 | DocScrutinizer | Mece: döösbaddl |
| 14:32.29 | jacekowski | that wasn't even proper russian |
| 14:32.46 | Mece | I wonder if one who can understand cyrillic letters can read that as english.. |
| 14:32.59 | jacekowski | well, i understand cyrylic |
| 14:33.19 | jacekowski | but russian keyboard layout is different to english |
| 14:33.25 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: i wonder whether it would be feasible to create a modified vfat driver that stores POSIX permissions and so on in a file |
| 14:33.30 | kW_ | BCMM: well, this is my MYDOCSDIR problem... |
| 14:33.31 | Mece | jacekowski, ah yes. |
| 14:33.33 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: i mean, feasible in terms of performance |
| 14:33.56 | jacekowski | and some letters are read differently |
| 14:34.11 | bunn4 | is there a good scratchbox2 ubuntu tutorial? |
| 14:34.13 | kW_ | DocScrutinizer: how do I make different directories visible in the filesystem browser widget? |
| 14:34.30 | Mece | jacekowski, I'm working on getting qlister to work with russian and other languages with different letters than mine. |
| 14:34.33 | bunn4 | after installing sb2 doesnt seems to install arm-gcc compiler |
| 14:34.34 | jacekowski | b is read like v |
| 14:34.36 | DocScrutinizer | kW_: screwit |
| 14:34.51 | jacekowski | p is read like r |
| 14:34.55 | DocScrutinizer | kW_: make a symlink to a better dir name |
| 14:34.56 | jacekowski | and couple more |
| 14:35.03 | DocScrutinizer | in a better location |
| 14:35.05 | kW_ | DocScrutinizer: oh, symlinks work there? |
| 14:35.11 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: gah, i was about to ask if the file browser supports symlinks... |
| 14:35.22 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: oh, somebody did say that |
| 14:35.31 | BCMM | vfat doesn't have symlinks |
| 14:35.43 | kW_ | DocScrutinizer: well, I cannot create a symlink in a vfat directory, can I? |
| 14:36.03 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, I bindmount / to ~/MyDocs/MyRoot |
| 14:36.06 | jacekowski | well, you can |
| 14:36.10 | DocScrutinizer | works for me |
| 14:36.25 | jacekowski | i mean there is patch for it |
| 14:36.33 | BCMM | now in finally know what bindmount does that symlinks don't... |
| 14:36.34 | jacekowski | but i think it never went upstream to vanilia |
| 14:37.00 | jacekowski | BCMM: symlinks can be detected and are annoying |
| 14:37.00 | DocScrutinizer | though I always thought even windows2000 had symlinks. otoh that's NTFS, not VFAT |
| 14:37.09 | BCMM | jacekowski: implemented as .lnks? |
| 14:37.13 | DocScrutinizer | tbh I rarely ever touch VFAT |
| 14:37.19 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer: yeah, you can't do it on fat32 |
| 14:37.28 | jacekowski | BCMM: yes |
| 14:37.50 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: as far as i know ntfs only supports COW symlinks |
| 14:38.02 | BCMM | jacekowski: thing is, there is no way to do a cross-filesystem link that makes sense on both linux and windows |
| 14:38.23 | jacekowski | well, it's completly different fs design |
| 14:38.41 | jacekowski | it's like zfs on linux |
| 14:38.50 | jacekowski | you can use it with fuse |
| 14:38.56 | BCMM | is there even a way to use ntfs symlinks from windows? |
| 14:39.04 | DocScrutinizer | well at least I heard you *could* teach VFAT to know about unix permissions |
| 14:39.15 | BCMM | doesn't it do a bunch of stuff windows doesn't actually use, like case sensitivity? |
| 14:39.16 | Stskeeps | UMSDOS? |
| 14:39.35 | jacekowski | BCMM: well, it's used a lot on server windows |
| 14:39.44 | jacekowski | BCMM: for doing stuff like deduplication |
| 14:40.12 | BCMM | christ, there are still windows servers... |
| 14:40.39 | jacekowski | there are things that linux can't do |
| 14:40.48 | kW_ | well, "/ /home/user/MyDocs/root none bind" in /etc/fstab worked |
| 14:40.50 | jacekowski | AD for example |
| 14:40.59 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 14:41.14 | jacekowski | kW_: well fstab will be gone as soon as you reboot |
| 14:41.45 | BCMM | jacekowski: what is AD? |
| 14:41.48 | DocScrutinizer | kW_: need to patch init scripts |
| 14:42.05 | DocScrutinizer | to have additional mounts |
| 14:42.18 | kW_ | I did already patch the initscripts (e.g. to not recreate /etc/fstab) |
| 14:42.24 | DocScrutinizer | or to make fstab persistent :-P |
| 14:42.41 | DocScrutinizer | hehe, exactly |
| 14:42.44 | BCMM | fstab gets clobbered on reboot? |
| 14:42.51 | DocScrutinizer | yep :-/ |
| 14:42.56 | BCMM | why? |
| 14:43.02 | DocScrutinizer | ask Nokia |
| 14:43.08 | BCMM | Nokia: why |
| 14:43.17 | kW_ | hehe |
| 14:43.18 | BCMM | oh, they aren't in here... |
| 14:43.21 | jacekowski | because fstab is bad |
| 14:43.46 | jacekowski | it's old thing that remembers time when system had disks that never changed |
| 14:44.32 | DocScrutinizer | BCMM: another ncarnation of maemo hijacking the whole linux and then reinventing the original things in a crippled manner for user to cope with it |
| 14:44.48 | BCMM | could be worse, could be android... |
| 14:44.55 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 14:45.11 | kW_ | well, fstab is designed in that way that it does _not_ interfere with dynamic mounts... |
| 14:46.15 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: yeah, the disks in my N900 change every 10 minutes |
| 14:46.54 | BCMM | ah, but this will all change when USB host changes everything! |
| 14:47.28 | DocScrutinizer | even compared to my laptop where I *never* get any new disks |
| 14:48.19 | DocScrutinizer | so for my laptop a static fstab is sane, while N900 obviously should regenerate it dynamically on file open() |
| 14:49.23 | jacekowski | are you being sarcastic now? |
| 14:49.31 | DocScrutinizer | ooh sorry |
| 14:49.47 | DocScrutinizer | </sarcasm> |
| 14:50.37 | pupnik | n900 effectively contains a whole rack of audio / video gear, compared to 1987 or so |
| 14:50.40 | Termana | :D |
| 14:50.56 | bunn4 | /scratchbox/compilers/arm-gcc-3.3.4-glibc-2.3.2/bin/arm-linux-gcc |
| 14:51.01 | bunn4 | what if this doesnt exist |
| 14:52.02 | pupnik | then it doesn't suffer |
| 14:52.29 | DocScrutinizer | seems Nokia has a massive problem of clash between NIH and using a FOSS OS |
| 14:52.55 | pupnik | why? |
| 14:53.23 | DocScrutinizer | yeah why? because they never really got it what FOSS is all about? |
| 14:54.08 | *** join/#maemo mw22 (~chatzilla@cc528723-b.mp1.dr.home.nl) |
| 14:54.21 | *** join/#maemo tgalal (~tarek@41.206.152.5) |
| 14:57.01 | GAN900 | SD69 is such a classy dude. |
| 14:57.22 | DocScrutinizer | /whois SD69 |
| 14:57.55 | GAN900 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=721673#post721673 |
| 14:58.02 | GAN900 | Some Talk joker. |
| 14:58.36 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: do you happen to recall the URL of that pulseaudio - phone writeup? |
| 14:58.48 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: the 5ms thing |
| 14:58.52 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 14:58.58 | DocScrutinizer | the pdf? |
| 14:59.01 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 14:59.05 | DocScrutinizer | mompls |
| 14:59.10 | SpeedEvil | I seem to have forgotten to bookmark it. |
| 15:00.03 | DocScrutinizer | http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Jyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf should be the gem |
| 15:00.09 | SpeedEvil | Thanks! |
| 15:00.33 | DocScrutinizer | *damn* the laughter starts again |
| 15:01.20 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~user@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 15:01.30 | SpeedEvil | Currently trying to understand the audio hardware to writeup a FAQ on it. |
| 15:02.27 | SpeedEvil | Well - a QITPSABDAJUP |
| 15:02.49 | SpeedEvil | Questions I think people should ask, but don't, and just use pulseaudio. |
| 15:02.52 | *** join/#maemo merlin_phone (~merlin199@194.48.133.8) |
| 15:04.00 | merlin_phone | does anyone know where skype saves the contact pictures on the n900 |
| 15:04.11 | *** join/#maemo zap_ (~zap@178.130.21.28) |
| 15:04.29 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: please reserve a special section "angry rants by DocScrutinizer" for me ;-D |
| 15:04.30 | *** join/#maemo mece1 (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 15:06.17 | *** join/#maemo SunilGhai (~SunilGhai@203.76.178.43) |
| 15:07.51 | DocScrutinizer | first entry in there: <32PT, bold> WHY NEEDS PA TO KNOW ABOUT GSM OTA PACKET RATE AND TIME ADVANCE? |
| 15:08.32 | SpeedEvil | I don't quite think that's referring to that. |
| 15:09.00 | SpeedEvil | If my skim of it is correct, that's responding to 'queue near empty/full' messages from the GSM modems audio FIFO |
| 15:09.03 | DocScrutinizer | err? not? |
| 15:09.30 | *** join/#maemo merlin_phone (~merlin199@194.48.133.8) |
| 15:09.43 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: measure latency? |
| 15:09.57 | Stskeeps | PA uses that a fair bit |
| 15:10.43 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:10.43 | *** join/#maemo jmc93739653 (~jmc937396@65-73-82-221.dsl1.mnd.mn.frontiernet.net) |
| 15:10.44 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:10.46 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:10.56 | DocScrutinizer | if that's not OTA, then I dunno |
| 15:10.57 | *** part/#maemo merlin_phone (~merlin199@194.48.133.8) |
| 15:11.07 | *** join/#maemo merlin_phone (~merlin199@194.48.133.8) |
| 15:11.41 | Stskeeps | yes, but TA is a perspective on how long it takes to reach base station |
| 15:11.58 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:12.00 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:12.01 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:13.00 | DocScrutinizer | that's so completely and exactly just missing the point |
| 15:13.30 | Stskeeps | the call quality is quite nice on n900 though |
| 15:13.31 | DocScrutinizer | I never seen or heard of a tech spec that made me laugh more |
| 15:13.59 | Stskeeps | write something better then? |
| 15:14.32 | *** join/#maemo Terje_ (~Terje@a91-152-107-58.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 15:14.33 | merlin_phone | so does anyone know where to contact pictures from skype im accounts get saved on the n900? (I want set one phone contact to the skype pic since it's merged and has several IM users and the other pics suck :P) |
| 15:14.46 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: sure, but it was as well without modem introducing irrelevant parameters to audio subsystem to tune some buffers to something they don't relate to in any way whatsoever |
| 15:14.53 | *** join/#maemo messi_x (~Messi_x@110.49.23.200) |
| 15:15.30 | merlin_phone | and i can't stand it when the pic changes everytime i log on the im services depending on wich one connects first |
| 15:15.32 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: maybe you don't see the whole picture then? either way, is that fremantle or future stiff? |
| 15:15.38 | Stskeeps | stuff |
| 15:16.10 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: PA needs to measure latency from speaker audio sink to mic audio source, to calibrate AEC. That's *completely unrelated* to whatever is going on at the GSM side though |
| 15:16.25 | luke-jr | demand open phone-CPU! |
| 15:16.38 | luke-jr | <.< |
| 15:17.09 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: right, but it should be synchronised with whats being sent out on gsm for power saving/avoiding cutouts/etc? |
| 15:17.31 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: I think I'm well capable of seeing the whole picture, and that is fremantle stuff |
| 15:17.56 | Stskeeps | k |
| 15:18.23 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: nonsense. The GSM audio stream is transparent to whatever the audio interface from modem to outside world might be |
| 15:18.45 | Stskeeps | mmkay |
| 15:18.48 | luke-jr | is N900 850 or 900? |
| 15:18.57 | DocScrutinizer | there's simply nothing to reasonably sync or adjust to |
| 15:19.00 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: mail the guy and discuss |
| 15:19.12 | Stskeeps | first.lastname@nokia.com |
| 15:19.25 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, what's that worth for? |
| 15:19.33 | luke-jr | ... |
| 15:19.47 | DocScrutinizer | make him feel bad? make me feel bad? make Nokia think about it? |
| 15:19.53 | *** join/#maemo trbs (~trbs@5355B9B3.cable.casema.nl) |
| 15:19.56 | Stskeeps | well, whats the point of moaning about something if you don't want to discuss it? |
| 15:20.00 | Termana | luke-jr: 900 |
| 15:20.04 | luke-jr | lame |
| 15:20.22 | luke-jr | Nokia should have made N900 quad-band with open phone-side firmware |
| 15:20.23 | Stskeeps | or maybe figuring out if there is a reason for those things |
| 15:20.30 | luke-jr | so I could mod it to talk CDMA <.< |
| 15:21.12 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: well, that's maybe a valid point. If only it were "that's been the specs I got, so I implemented it that way" |
| 15:21.48 | ShadowJK | I think the gsm radio is quad band and the 3g is triband.. |
| 15:21.49 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: what - i suspect - is exactly the way it happened |
| 15:22.14 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: cost of implementing something like that is too big for it being for no reason. |
| 15:22.17 | arachnist | luke-jr: people in the usa should've got their mobile phones "The Right Way" (tm), so that all of the carriers would use the same system |
| 15:22.25 | Termana | ShadowJK: thats basically the case with all 3G radios AFAIK |
| 15:22.30 | luke-jr | ShadowJK: I thought they used the same radio, but 3G required the 850/900 frequency? |
| 15:22.44 | luke-jr | arachnist: they do. all CDMA |
| 15:22.54 | ShadowJK | Termana, no I have a phone with quad band gsm and single-band 3g too :P |
| 15:23.16 | Termana | ShadowJK: :P I just meant with having quad band gsm heh |
| 15:23.28 | ShadowJK | ah |
| 15:24.16 | DocScrutinizer | Termana: I know of a phone with 3band GSM - it's called errrr... Freerunner |
| 15:24.43 | luke-jr | arachnist: AT&T has some limited 3G coverage, admittedly, but N900 doesn't support it |
| 15:24.51 | luke-jr | arachnist: everything else here is CDMA |
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| 15:25.00 | Termana | DocScrutinizer: Right, but that doesn't have 3G, thats GSM only :P So my statement still holds true |
| 15:25.20 | DocScrutinizer | ok |
| 15:25.36 | arachnist | luke-jr: well, if you would've used what is being used in the europe, there would be no problem ;) |
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| 15:26.56 | ShadowJK | well.. |
| 15:27.01 | ShadowJK | It's not entirely consistent in europe either |
| 15:27.13 | ShadowJK | Although the triband 3g in N900 does cover all of europe |
| 15:27.14 | DocScrutinizer | problem 1: CDMA in USA, only few GSM networks. Problem 2 in USA: Carriers decide to use frequencies dedicated to GSM and run UMTS on them |
| 15:27.25 | Termana | DocScrutinizer: speaking of the Freerunner, do you know if the *BSD on Freerunner efforts got any further than has been documented on the openmoko wiki? |
| 15:27.44 | DocScrutinizer | no idea, sorry |
| 15:28.25 | Termana | luke-jr: I have a solution for you |
| 15:28.25 | DocScrutinizer | Termana: //join #openmoko(-cdevel) and ask there |
| 15:29.02 | Termana | DocScrutinizer: will do :) cheers. (probably tomorrow, bout to go to bed :P) |
| 15:29.19 | Termana | luke-jr: move. Problem fixed. |
| 15:29.48 | Termana | Or use t-mobile |
| 15:31.17 | *** part/#maemo richieeee72 (~richard@81.147.9.47) |
| 15:33.00 | yigal | The external speaker makes a noise every time the screen is touched pr 1.2 is there a fix or an option i'm missing? |
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| 15:33.37 | Stskeeps | sure its not just the vibra? |
| 15:34.16 | yigal | I'll disable and see |
| 15:34.17 | DocScrutinizer | ts-click is an audio event, so it's not just vibra |
| 15:35.06 | yigal | Vibrate was off |
| 15:35.06 | DocScrutinizer | in settings there is a level0..2 setting for those clicks |
| 15:35.09 | Stskeeps | true |
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| 15:35.42 | Stskeeps | yigal: yes, but settings - display - touch screen vibration? |
| 15:35.43 | yigal | All sounds are off as far as I'm aware? |
| 15:35.47 | DocScrutinizer | keyboark click, touchscreen click, system signals, whatnot... |
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| 15:36.14 | DocScrutinizer | keyboark is nice (adding to spellchecker) |
| 15:36.42 | SpeedEvil | too verbose. |
| 15:36.49 | SpeedEvil | The term should clearly be keybark. |
| 15:36.55 | yigal | Stskeeps: ty, that was it |
| 15:38.41 | DocScrutinizer | see how hard my life as EE can get? I'd never figure anybody could think of vibrator as a speaker output |
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| 15:42.38 | shorter | why do the ringtones on the n900 get reset everytime the battery dies? |
| 15:43.08 | shorter | I put more ring tones in the regular directory and selected one in profile -but it doesn't stick |
| 15:43.47 | shorter | Also, I'm not sure it works when connected as 'mass storage' because it can't access ./MyDocs |
| 15:43.50 | alterego | I think my favorite thread at the moment is the miss-steps thread, it's been a really good one, high quality posts and a lot of reasonable information, seems to even be creating some good progress. |
| 15:45.40 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: (interrupts from audio, 1000?/s) see >> Do block transfers to McBSP2 1280 word buffer<< |
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| 15:47.22 | SpeedEvil | thanks |
| 15:47.54 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: (rant / questions) what is the rationale behind bothering about 5ms latency vs 20ms, when the OTA has a RTT of *at least* 200ms? |
| 15:48.14 | SpeedEvil | to avoid clicks on buffer over/underruns |
| 15:48.50 | Dantonic | After successfully pairing the N900 with a headset device, or my car's Bluetooth, I am able to initiate and receive calls, however any of the audio from the call is not transmitted to the paired device. |
| 15:48.50 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: hypothesis: requirement specs said "keep latency as low as possible" where they should have s/possible/reasonable/ |
| 15:49.08 | pexi | shorter, don't let the battery die. it looses capacity |
| 15:49.16 | Dantonic | This started happening after I tried streaming music over bluetooth... |
| 15:49.29 | Dantonic | any idea why? |
| 15:49.30 | SpeedEvil | possible. |
| 15:50.05 | shorter | pexi, how easily? |
| 15:50.13 | shorter | It has died like 4 times already |
| 15:50.26 | shorter | how powerful is it compared to other smart phone's batteries? |
| 15:50.51 | DocScrutinizer | shorter: my ringtone is sticky, and it is converted to a .wav that lives in some ~/.* folder. So umount MyDocs won't matter |
| 15:51.34 | pexi | well, lion batteries don't like when they get fully discharged, but i donno what kind of smart protection system n900 has |
| 15:51.45 | shorter | DocScrutinizer is it better than if I leave it in mp3? |
| 15:52.14 | shorter | pexi, the battery seems to die almost immediately after the status bar shows any red |
| 15:52.30 | DocScrutinizer | shorter: the settings 'app' does that converting job in background, you don't need to cope with it |
| 15:52.50 | shorter | why does mine get reset to a default ringer? |
| 15:52.58 | ShadowJK | My battery lasts a few hours after the meter goes red |
| 15:53.00 | DocScrutinizer | dunno |
| 15:53.02 | ShadowJK | (in idle) |
| 15:53.08 | shorter | I'm not sure about any mounting issue, but the battery dying definitely does it |
| 15:53.11 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: same here |
| 15:53.29 | shorter | would that health program tell me if there is something wrong with my battery? |
| 15:53.32 | DocScrutinizer | 60min *with screen backlight at 100%* |
| 15:53.50 | luke-jr | arachnist: true, but Europe has a tendency to be retarded; can't blame people for being skeptical :) |
| 15:53.55 | ShadowJK | pexi, I would say N900's shutdown thresholds are fine as long as you recharge it the same day after running it "dead" |
| 15:54.03 | luke-jr | arachnist: in any case, 3G GSM didn't exist when CDMA was being deployed here |
| 15:54.09 | shorter | furthermore, ps -A shows an awefully lot of stuff running, despite the fact that they don't use any cpu most of the time, it seems it might still be running downt he battery a lot |
| 15:54.17 | pexi | ShadowJK, ok, good to know |
| 15:54.33 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: how would reducing the buffer size from 20ms to 5ms avoid any clicking/dropouts? |
| 15:54.46 | luke-jr | Termana: I cannot legally leave Nebraska. If you have an idea for amnesty somewhere else, including travel arrangements without passports, please let me know. |
| 15:54.52 | luke-jr | Termana: also, no T-Mobile in Nebraksa |
| 15:55.00 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: or buffer over/underruns |
| 15:55.18 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: more the opposite is true |
| 15:55.39 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: the smaller the bufer, the more likely you get OF/UF |
| 15:56.24 | luke-jr | Termana: also, "somewhere else" would need to be an improvement over NE :P |
| 15:56.27 | ShadowJK | shorter, well, generally speaking powertop is more useful for finding out what's killing standby time.. also, the facebook widget is well known for sucking batteries empty in no time |
| 15:56.39 | ShadowJK | Although powertop was removed from later firmware images :( |
| 15:57.19 | GAN900 | I guess we can probably unsticky the brainstorm threads. . . . |
| 15:57.44 | Stskeeps | luke-jr: why can't you legally leave nebraska, out of curiousity? |
| 15:58.17 | luke-jr | Stskeeps: this State is getting close to a dictatorship |
| 15:58.24 | Stskeeps | luke-jr: .. practical reaons |
| 15:58.25 | Stskeeps | reasons |
| 15:58.26 | alterego | I've noticed that my N900 charger is one of those brutish ones that are quite hard to push in and release, my usb cables are all fine though. what shojuld I do? |
| 15:58.38 | luke-jr | Stskeeps: my wife has a mental illness |
| 15:58.58 | luke-jr | Stskeeps: in Nebraska, that is basically grounds for them to claim custody of our children |
| 15:59.03 | th3hate | is there any way to retrieve the media player widget if i uninstalled it? |
| 15:59.06 | Stskeeps | ok, but have they? |
| 15:59.20 | luke-jr | yes, as soon as feds gave them jurisdiction (6 months after we moved here) |
| 15:59.26 | luke-jr | Legal separation allows me to regain my own custody alone |
| 15:59.28 | luke-jr | but |
| 15:59.45 | luke-jr | in NE, legal separation also means you need court permission to leave the state |
| 16:00.31 | Stskeeps | so, when kids are 18, you can leave the state? |
| 16:00.32 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 16:00.36 | luke-jr | ... |
| 16:00.56 | luke-jr | by that time, Nebraska will hopefully no longer exist |
| 16:01.10 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: be carefull on inserting/retracting the USB plug. It will wear and get more easy/gentle after a few 1000 rounds |
| 16:01.30 | shorter | can bar showing connections, batterylife, and misc widgets become full? |
| 16:01.51 | shorter | ...I'm asking because I installed some more (tor) that take up space in there, and now my flashlight app disappeared |
| 16:01.59 | luke-jr | my lawyer is helping me get court permission to leave the state |
| 16:02.11 | luke-jr | but my wife's guardian ad litem is likely to try to object somehow |
| 16:02.26 | Stskeeps | and you can't be guardian of your wife? :P |
| 16:02.35 | luke-jr | Stskeeps: potentially, if she had a legal guardian |
| 16:02.53 | Stskeeps | mmkay |
| 16:02.56 | luke-jr | guardian ad litem is a lawyer that second-guesses her in this specific court case more or less |
| 16:03.03 | luke-jr | she has her own lawyer that represents her |
| 16:03.33 | th3hate | what's the name of media player widget package?? i want to apt-get it???? |
| 16:03.34 | Stskeeps | next question is if you knew of this problem before getting married and having children.. |
| 16:03.46 | luke-jr | Stskeeps: nope, kinda irrelevant tho |
| 16:03.53 | luke-jr | we didn't live in Nebraska then, either |
| 16:04.02 | luke-jr | I was a fool to not look up the laws here first I guess |
| 16:04.04 | Stskeeps | heh |
| 16:05.06 | luke-jr | Stskeeps: the problem didn't really manifest until our 2nd was born |
| 16:05.27 | luke-jr | triggered more or less by post-partum depression |
| 16:05.39 | Stskeeps | so she didn't have a legal guardian by the time you got married? |
| 16:05.43 | luke-jr | she still doesn't. |
| 16:05.49 | Stskeeps | mmkay |
| 16:05.50 | luke-jr | guardian != guardian ad litem |
| 16:06.13 | luke-jr | the GAL can *only* second guess her in regards to the specific court case involving the children |
| 16:06.38 | Stskeeps | then again, that should apply for a lot of people, since that can't be a uncommon problem. |
| 16:07.03 | luke-jr | triggered by post-partum, not simply post-partum :) |
| 16:07.08 | th3hate | someone help me for the love of god@@@ |
| 16:07.09 | luke-jr | bi-polar |
| 16:07.31 | luke-jr | anyhow, I have to run |
| 16:07.39 | luke-jr | gonna be late for lunch |
| 16:07.40 | luke-jr | <.< |
| 16:10.29 | pexi | are there any app for locking/showing clock when your phone is locked. so you can watch just the time rather than 'logging in' |
| 16:10.56 | Stskeeps | pexi: tap the top button |
| 16:12.01 | pexi | and can I lock this manually? |
| 16:12.03 | pexi | :) |
| 16:12.18 | pexi | I really don't like using this as a phone |
| 16:12.19 | pexi | :) |
| 16:14.22 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: the paper mentiones "simple bufering would add... 20ms latency [so we invent a weird scheme to get that down to 5ms]". 15ms difference in latency correspond to the delay caused by 5m distance from the phone in speaker mode. Would anybody care about the *latency* introduced into a phonecall by a 5m distance from speaker/mic to user? |
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| 16:26.57 | shorter | how should I get powertop then ShadowJK? |
| 16:27.06 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 16:27.52 | DocScrutinizer | shorter: maybe google will find a .deb to download somewhere |
| 16:28.11 | shorter | DocScrutinizer, what softare do you recommend to figure out what is costing the most power? |
| 16:28.22 | DocScrutinizer | powertop |
| 16:28.24 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (~aloisio@187.113.170.140) |
| 16:28.55 | DocScrutinizer | as for now speedevil's more tailored-to-the-device aproach isn't complete yet |
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| 16:30.46 | Stskeeps | heh, i forgot how speedy Diablo on N8x0 actually felt at times |
| 16:33.08 | ShadowJK | indeed :-) |
| 16:34.27 | shorter | anyone here use googlevoice? |
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| 16:36.00 | DocScrutinizer | shorter: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=491333#post491333 |
| 16:36.27 | hpbox | hi, is there some program for the n900 where I can mark a place on a map, then go there later? I've looked at Maep and Maps but they both seem to lack the ability to save a location |
| 16:36.30 | shorter | lol, reading that as we speak |
| 16:36.51 | shorter | i think mappero |
| 16:37.08 | pcfe | hpbox: Mappero |
| 16:37.19 | hpbox | thanks I'll check it out |
| 16:37.26 | hpbox | btw I think I found a bug in Maps |
| 16:37.35 | pcfe | file a bug report then |
| 16:37.38 | hpbox | this isn't the place to report it I guess .. |
| 16:37.43 | hpbox | will do thank you |
| 16:37.49 | pcfe | no, needs to go to bug tracker |
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| 17:08.28 | ham5 | yea theres this one program to mark where your car is so you can go back to it |
| 17:08.31 | ham5 | sure it work son gps |
| 17:09.51 | yigal | Where can i download transmission? |
| 17:10.09 | crashanddie | yigal: the internet |
| 17:10.10 | ham5 | its in the repos |
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| 17:11.20 | yigal | ham5: devel repos? |
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| 17:14.11 | ham5 | or testing |
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| 17:41.53 | kW_ | Hello! Does anybody know where received SMS messages are stored? |
| 17:42.15 | crashanddie | kW_: in a database |
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| 17:42.22 | Arkenoi | kw: sqlite |
| 17:42.26 | ham5 | conversations |
| 17:43.32 | teilzeitstudent | kW_, at this link you'll find where that db is.. and other things: http://blogs.sans.org/computer-forensics/2010/03/17/nokia-n900-forensic-cheat-sheet/ |
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| 17:44.40 | crashanddie | kW_: /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el.db |
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| 17:45.37 | kW_ | thank you :-) |
| 17:45.48 | kW_ | did anybody of you try out phone calls over SIP over WLAN on the N900 |
| 17:45.49 | kW_ | ? |
| 17:46.14 | teilzeitstudent | But another matter: Does anyone know how IM & Skype servers handle beeing logged in to the same account via your PC and maemo? I.e. can I log into the same skype account from my PC and my n900? |
| 17:46.35 | merlin1991 | teilzeitstudent I just did that |
| 17:46.44 | merlin1991 | you get the msgs on both devices then |
| 17:46.58 | merlin1991 | if you type on your pc you get your own msg on the n900 then too and vice versa |
| 17:47.11 | teilzeitstudent | merlin1991, ah nice. Do you know what happens when you get a call? |
| 17:47.19 | merlin1991 | didn't try that :) |
| 17:47.37 | crashanddie | kW_: sure |
| 17:47.39 | teilzeitstudent | Alright thanks |
| 17:48.06 | crashanddie | kW_: my ISP's modems provide specific wifi networks I can connect to to call with |
| 17:48.19 | teilzeitstudent | Then I just need to somehow link a cellphone call to skype to make a conference call :p |
| 17:48.20 | crashanddie | kW_: so I've got wifi networks all around the country I can use to call with |
| 17:49.29 | crashanddie | teilzeitstudent: yes, you can be logged to one account from multiple location |
| 17:50.20 | crashanddie | merlin1991: all logged-in clients will ring, when you pick up on one device, the others will show "missed call from" |
| 17:53.57 | kW_ | crashanddie: well, the voice quality seems to be skippy in my first attempt |
| 17:54.11 | crashanddie | then it's your network |
| 17:54.14 | teilzeitstudent | crashanddie, thats actually smarter than I expected it to be. |
| 17:54.36 | crashanddie | I've been using Skype and SIP all over the world, usually continents apart, never had issues unless due to networking problems |
| 17:54.58 | crashanddie | and Skype/SIP usually works better than HTTP, because of QoS |
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| 17:55.40 | kW_ | crashanddie: well, it is a local WLAN |
| 17:55.55 | crashanddie | and? |
| 17:56.08 | Macer | skype seems to work fine for me |
| 17:56.20 | crashanddie | kW_: it being local doesn't mean it's good... |
| 17:56.20 | Macer | even over 3G |
| 17:56.24 | kW_ | crashanddie: but what _is_ skippy is actually the WLAN of the N900, I get ping round-trip times in the 100eds of milliseconds |
| 17:56.55 | kW_ | compared to less than 10ms when using the laptop... then on the WLAN-side, something is probably wrong |
| 17:56.55 | Macer | i get 200ms+ over tmob |
| 17:57.03 | Macer | skype seems fine |
| 17:57.15 | Macer | maybe a little longer of a slight delay |
| 17:57.27 | crashanddie | kW_: you could have a stupid router that doesn't play nice with the Power Saving features of the N900, you could have it configured on on the same channel as everyone on your building (channel 6 or 12, by any chance?), resulting in crappy network performance |
| 17:57.44 | crashanddie | kW_: millions of people are using skype and SIP just fine, don't toss it because you can't diagnostic it, thanks |
| 17:57.48 | crashanddie | going for food, later all |
| 17:57.58 | derf | Pretty much every router I've ever used falls under this "stupid router" category. |
| 17:58.59 | kW_ | well, my router is actually doing fine with any other WLAN device in the vicinity |
| 17:59.17 | derf | Yes, but they're not trying the N900's aggressive power saving. |
| 17:59.45 | merlin1991 | what's so special about the n900 power saving? |
| 17:59.49 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@r5j217.net.upc.cz) |
| 18:00.13 | derf | It tries to coordinate things so that the radio is only on during a small, predefined interval, and the AP knows to send data during that interval. |
| 18:00.59 | *** join/#maemo z4chh (~zach@aolclient-67-9-195-57.aol.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 18:01.16 | derf | Except when the AP doesn't know, or is out of sync, that means it has to re-transmit things until it gets lucky enough to send it during the interval the N900 radio is on. |
| 18:01.23 | *** join/#maemo simula (~mark@c-24-16-132-121.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:01.54 | kW_ | well, which ping-times over WLAN do you achieve with your n900? |
| 18:02.40 | Ikarus | kW_: as low as for my laptop |
| 18:03.06 | Surfa | not to mention that cheapie wlan aps work quite interestingly very often |
| 18:03.33 | Surfa | typically they work in a way that's easiest to implement, no matter if it's according to spec or not :) |
| 18:03.55 | Surfa | wlan iop is very tricky thing |
| 18:04.33 | kW_ | Ikarus: well, give a number :-) |
| 18:04.41 | Ikarus | kW_: under 10ms |
| 18:04.49 | Ikarus | kW_: depending of other traffic |
| 18:04.57 | Ikarus | (collisions and all that) |
| 18:05.02 | ShadowJK | rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 48.572/173.105/317.873/78.585 ms |
| 18:05.06 | ShadowJK | (17 packets) |
| 18:05.08 | ShadowJK | 1 second interval |
| 18:05.32 | ShadowJK | rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 2.661/99.701/219.985/39.648 ms |
| 18:05.34 | kW_ | so the average is 173ms? |
| 18:05.35 | ShadowJK | .1 second interval |
| 18:05.46 | ShadowJK | yes |
| 18:05.52 | kW_ | I get "rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 3.066/209.707/591.759/147.563 ms" |
| 18:06.17 | kW_ | ShadowJK: well, that's still slow in your case |
| 18:06.22 | Appiah | hey.. anyone else havin problems with zoutube? |
| 18:07.13 | *** join/#maemo Funnyface (~user734@51.80-203-50.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:07.15 | kW_ | Ikarus: what is the output of "ping -c 10 192.168.0.53 | tail -n 1" where "192.168.0.53" is the IP address of your N900? |
| 18:07.42 | Ikarus | kW_: depends on where I run it from (laptop or desktop) |
| 18:07.55 | *** join/#maemo benno2 (~benno2@92.49.17.72) |
| 18:08.41 | kW_ | Ikarus: well, run it from both ;-) (or choose any device, just make sure it goes over WLAN) |
| 18:08.57 | SpeedEvil | kwrtt min/avg/max/mdev = 95.158/251.043/456.854/118.766 ms |
| 18:09.06 | SpeedEvil | tjhat's with powersave on |
| 18:09.18 | SpeedEvil | with powersave off, it is some 10ms IIRC |
| 18:09.42 | kW_ | where can I change the powersave settings? |
| 18:10.04 | kW_ | well, 450ms jitter is probably too much for SIP... |
| 18:10.16 | benno2 | SpeedEvil, Hi, about the audio discussion on maemo-developers as expected nothing useful (nothing technical) came out. just that I'm barking on the wrong tree and engaging in long diatribes :) |
| 18:10.51 | SpeedEvil | the long diatribe is not helpful |
| 18:10.57 | SpeedEvil | generally |
| 18:11.13 | SpeedEvil | kW_: it gets better if you use the net intensively |
| 18:12.12 | benno2 | SpeedEvil, I know but some background to explain everything is needed. I just have the feeling that when it comes ot audio very little people are knowledgable. they know that the media player plays an audio and sends pcm data to the audio card but then it ends there. |
| 18:12.12 | kW_ | SpeedEvil: well, I use it as intensively as necessary to do SIP calls... |
| 18:12.43 | SpeedEvil | infobot: powersave is a wireless power saving technology that keeps the radio off much of the time to save power. You enable or disable this by selecting settings->internet connections, then carry on through the connection settings to the end, clicking 'next' till you get to 'advanced' - where you can set powersaving settings. |
| 18:12.44 | infobot | ...but powersave is already something else... |
| 18:12.48 | SpeedEvil | sighs. |
| 18:13.01 | SpeedEvil | ~powersave |
| 18:13.02 | infobot | setterm -powersave waste |
| 18:13.13 | SpeedEvil | ~forget powersave |
| 18:13.50 | SpeedEvil | infobot: no, powersave is a wireless power saving technology that keeps the radio off much of the time to save power. You enable or disable this by selecting settings->internet connections, then carry on through the connection settings to the end, clicking 'next' till you get to 'advanced' - where you can set powersaving settings. |
| 18:13.50 | infobot | okay, SpeedEvil |
| 18:13.55 | SpeedEvil | ~powersave |
| 18:13.56 | infobot | hmm... powersave is a wireless power saving technology that keeps the radio off much of the time to save power. You enable or disable this by selecting settings->internet connections, then carry on through the connection settings to the end, clicking 'next' till you get to 'advanced' - where you can set powersaving settings. |
| 18:14.21 | Ikarus | SpeedEvil: also explain what the settings do |
| 18:14.29 | benno2 | does anyone experience occasional audio dropouts (clicks,skips,pops), for example during mp3 playbacks, video playback VOIP apps etc ? |
| 18:14.38 | SpeedEvil | benno2: yes |
| 18:14.49 | SpeedEvil | benno2: you nee concrete examples, not 'pulseaudio sucks' |
| 18:15.09 | benno2 | SpeedEvil, yes. what is a typical case where you get audio clicks ? |
| 18:15.37 | SpeedEvil | play music or listen to FM radio. |
| 18:15.43 | SpeedEvil | Install an application. |
| 18:16.15 | kW_ | ah, with fully disabled powersave, I get 3ms ping times :-) |
| 18:16.20 | Ikarus | benno2: only on heavy system load |
| 18:16.56 | kW_ | and no more drops in SIP call quality :-) |
| 18:17.16 | benno2 | Ikarus, yes but which apps then cause audio dropouts ? audio/video player or apps like skype too ? |
| 18:17.32 | Ikarus | kW_: hack the SIP app to enable/disable WiFi powersaving on the fly |
| 18:17.38 | Ikarus | benno2: it's due to swapping |
| 18:17.52 | SpeedEvil | I suspect it's swapping too |
| 18:17.56 | kW_ | Ikarus: well, I should add this as a bug report somewhere... but where actually? |
| 18:17.58 | teilzeitstudent | benno2, for me, everything that uses the CPU a lot. the app manager, browsing with 4~ open windows..even one will do when a lot of flash is used |
| 18:18.17 | Ikarus | kW_: bugs.maemo.org ? |
| 18:18.21 | Ikarus | or whatever the name is |
| 18:18.28 | *** join/#maemo Sebas1 (~Gebruiker@195-241-217-67.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 18:18.30 | Ikarus | kW_: Nokia devs take over stuff from it |
| 18:18.37 | jacekowski | i hate wanna-build |
| 18:18.41 | *** part/#maemo Sebas1 (~Gebruiker@195-241-217-67.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 18:18.43 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: ? |
| 18:18.45 | jacekowski | for some fucking reason it doesn't see my uploads |
| 18:18.53 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 18:19.16 | SpeedEvil | Have you tried hitting it repeatedly with a hockey stick smeared in essence of trout? |
| 18:19.17 | jacekowski | and x-fade isn't here so i can't just ask him to send his config files to me |
| 18:19.20 | kW_ | does "Bugs against packages which have not been modified for Maemo should be reported upstream to their developers or maintainers." mean I should go to nokia directly? |
| 18:19.26 | RST38h | Have you tried a sacrifice? |
| 18:19.44 | RST38h | A small rodent will suffice, as far as the builder is concerned |
| 18:20.03 | benno2 | teilzeitstudent, then you get audio skips on apps like skype/voip apps too ? or only in the audio player ? |
| 18:20.05 | SpeedEvil | kW_: the proper place for this would be icd - it needs to be configured to vary powersaving on the fly |
| 18:20.20 | SpeedEvil | benno2: I also get skips on 'FMradio' |
| 18:20.53 | teilzeitstudent | benno2, the default audio player, nqaap, fm radio client, havnt tested skype. |
| 18:20.55 | benno2 | SpeedEvil, sad. because it is routed through pulse audio ? |
| 18:20.59 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 18:21.22 | SpeedEvil | It's also possible to setup the audio hardware so the CPU is not involved at all, but that is not done |
| 18:22.11 | Ikarus | kW_: no, Maemo == Nokia for that |
| 18:22.28 | teilzeitstudent | Which reminds me.. is there any overview about how sound is handled? i.e. which subsystems are involved in which way? pulseaudio, alsa, ... what else? And at which points the profiles are used etc? |
| 18:23.05 | SpeedEvil | teilzeitstudent: I was planning on writing one. |
| 18:23.08 | SpeedEvil | but ... |
| 18:23.16 | teilzeitstudent | Found some PDF slide show somewhere, but that wasnt too helpfull |
| 18:23.23 | *** join/#maemo ToJa92_ (~ToJa92@90-228-225-154-no126.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 18:23.27 | SpeedEvil | alsa is basically uninvolved |
| 18:23.53 | SpeedEvil | save as a compatibility layer over pulse, and what pulse attaches to the hardware with (unsure) |
| 18:23.57 | SpeedEvil | All apps talk to pulse |
| 18:23.58 | kW_ | well, the other side still seems to have some dropouts... even with wireless powersave switched off |
| 18:24.24 | benno2 | SpeedEvil, well then is seems the whole system is quite weak. because pulseaudio. on the mailinglist I just got a repsonse on the ML: "As I understand it, pulseaudio on the n900 achieves 5ms latency, and a few dozen microseconds of jitter.It's just not for normal users." |
| 18:24.31 | teilzeitstudent | SpeedEvil, well I'm kinda curious about the "silent" profile (which stops all sound expept the audioplayer" |
| 18:24.38 | SpeedEvil | Pulse talks to the hardware, which has a very flexible audio routing engine. |
| 18:24.50 | SpeedEvil | benno2: yes - that was me - and I pointed at a PDF |
| 18:24.52 | jacekowski | fucking fuck |
| 18:25.00 | benno2 | SpeedEvil, :) |
| 18:25.15 | SpeedEvil | sighs. |
| 18:25.20 | SpeedEvil | needs minions. |
| 18:25.35 | teilzeitstudent | "Jyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf"? :P |
| 18:25.36 | RST38h | jacek: just wasted a perfectly good pet hamster? |
| 18:25.45 | benno2 | SpeedEvil, but the numbers on paper do not seem to reflect the real numbers users are seeing. |
| 18:26.12 | SpeedEvil | benno2: yes - as I understand it, the mobile phone side is dealt with very differently to the rest of the auido |
| 18:26.28 | SpeedEvil | benno2: I would load something like angry birds, and then look a t ho it does sounds. |
| 18:26.51 | benno2 | teilzeitstudent, that PDF is a bit of a joke. lots of nice theory but in practice the system is quite weak. |
| 18:27.52 | teilzeitstudent | benno2, I wouldnt know. Understood the title, then my head started hurting. |
| 18:28.34 | *** join/#maemo spectre- (~n900@41.210.191.7) |
| 18:28.39 | *** join/#maemo pupnik_ (~pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) |
| 18:29.19 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (~alehorst@189.115.87.46) |
| 18:29.31 | teilzeitstudent | All I really wanted to do was route the cell "sound" to skype via a bit of sox. But that relies heavily on alsa |
| 18:30.23 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 18:30.27 | benno2 | teilzeitstudent, my head started hurting by reading all the lies in that document! good idea, bad implementation |
| 18:30.29 | SpeedEvil | benno2: The paper is largely orthogonal to normal sound on the device as I understand it. It simply shows that the hardware, and some elements of pulse can do it. |
| 18:31.17 | *** join/#maemo Vulcanis (~a_lovelac@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 18:31.36 | *** join/#maemo trumee (~nobody@cpc2-cmbg15-0-0-cust1000.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 18:31.37 | dr34m | whats a good ebook reader ? something not so memory hungry |
| 18:32.10 | SpeedEvil | I have used FBReader for a few dozen books. |
| 18:32.12 | SpeedEvil | Works OK. |
| 18:32.38 | benno2 | SpeedEvil, if Nokia had a brain, they would have investigated what's currently available on Linux. They would have discovered JACK and could have written a few modules for it to accomodate their needs (power management mainly). most best brains about linux audio are on the linux-audio-dev ML. asking for advice would cost nothing. |
| 18:32.46 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~puphome@p54B2AB7D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:32.51 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 18:33.12 | RST38h | good good |
| 18:33.37 | *** join/#maemo opdf2 (~asdfsd@c-67-173-70-13.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 18:33.46 | RST38h | linux-audio-dev <-- good place to start when creating lists of people for extermination |
| 18:35.23 | RST38h | maybe then we will not have o rewrite all the apps to the next greatest audio framework every two years |
| 18:36.06 | *** join/#maemo teilzeitstudent_ (~teilzeits@p5DCCCD11.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:36.17 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-121-118-60.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 18:36.44 | derf | You only have this problem because you insist on having apps with sound. |
| 18:36.53 | RST38h | correct, yes |
| 18:37.00 | luke-jr | pfft |
| 18:37.03 | benno2 | RST38h, yes sometimes the mood isn't that good, some are stubborn etc. but the most competent people on the subject are there. and there are the linux audio conferences where people give prsentations about the current status about linux audio etc. Wondering why Nokia di not tap into that developer pool. |
| 18:37.10 | luke-jr | there have only ever been two audio frameworks worth using |
| 18:37.17 | luke-jr | not a big problem |
| 18:37.30 | RST38h | benno: absolutely no need in such people |
| 18:38.02 | RST38h | benno: there is a need in peope with enough guts to go back to /dev/audio |
| 18:38.06 | *** join/#maemo thuttu77 (~thuttu77@a88-112-28-227.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:38.18 | lcuk | does anyone know where i ca nget a tardis from? |
| 18:38.25 | benno2 | RST38h, the JACK API for example has remained quite stable and you can exchange JACK1 for JACK2 server and apps still work. In linux sampler it has been ages that we did not touch the jack audio output module. |
| 18:38.43 | luke-jr | benno2: but JACK is just some lame layer |
| 18:38.43 | RST38h | lcuk: will tell you if you tell me where I can get today's episode from =) |
| 18:38.50 | luke-jr | ALSA works just fine as it is |
| 18:38.59 | RST38h | luke: not really |
| 18:38.59 | pupnik_ | why not compile jack for n900 and try it |
| 18:39.12 | RST38h | luke: I guess you have never tried programming with ALSA |
| 18:39.13 | pupnik_ | money -> mouth |
| 18:39.15 | benno2 | I don't know how many native pulseaudio apps there are, but the list of apps supporting JACK is getting very long while on the homepage of pulseaudio I see just a couple of clients. |
| 18:39.17 | lcuk | RST38h, #bbc tv at its finest. come over to england this week, you can watch it on iplayer |
| 18:39.20 | luke-jr | RST38h: nope |
| 18:39.39 | luke-jr | I'm happy with the OSS API |
| 18:39.43 | luke-jr | that ALSA is compatible with |
| 18:40.26 | RST38h | benno2: perfect, another audio api |
| 18:40.39 | RST38h | luke: ALSA simulates OSS API |
| 18:40.46 | benno2 | luke-jr, yes ALSA works but the problem is that on a phone you need to route and mix several sources. one could IMO just implement an ALSA dmix plugin too. except for mixing and routing I think that a phone does not require a very flexible system. more or less everything is "hardwired" |
| 18:40.48 | luke-jr | everything supports OSS API :) |
| 18:40.54 | RST38h | luke: but it is quite a bit more, and that "bit" is a freaking mess |
| 18:41.13 | RST38h | "OSS API" itself is an extension of the /dev/audio |
| 18:41.17 | luke-jr | benno2: ALSA has a dmix plugin, enabled by default |
| 18:41.27 | *** join/#maemo toggles_1 (~irssi_tog@host24-225-static.28-79-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:41.29 | luke-jr | benno2: and this is #maemo, not #openmoko |
| 18:41.38 | pupnik_ | benno2: bluetooth sinks are dynamic |
| 18:42.09 | RST38h | So, BSD people at some point reimplemented a cut-down version of the OSS API and called it /dev/pcm, linked to /dev/dsp |
| 18:42.13 | Appiah | can anyone verify that zoutube works atm? |
| 18:42.18 | benno2 | luke-jr, yes, OSS was quite simple, but as soon as you depart from the stereo soundcard model OSS is getting harder to deal with. so cards with 5.1 outs are getting more common and ALSA better deals with such stuff. |
| 18:42.39 | luke-jr | benno2: I have two ears. |
| 18:42.40 | luke-jr | <.< |
| 18:42.49 | RST38h | benno: could you please explain why you need 5.1 output in a laptop? |
| 18:42.51 | RST38h | or a phone? |
| 18:43.04 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: It is nice to plug the phone into stuff as a media source. |
| 18:43.10 | RST38h | (and what prevents you from having 6 values per sample anyway) |
| 18:43.16 | pupnik_ | right SpeedEvil |
| 18:43.25 | pupnik_ | see N8 / hdmi |
| 18:43.36 | luke-jr | RST38h: to be fair, I can see a legitimate need to have independent and concurring outputs via headset and speakers on a handheld device |
| 18:43.37 | RST38h | Speed: And you have got a 5+1 audio system? The one that is really better than two speakers? |
| 18:44.19 | benno2 | RST38h, the Nokia N8 for example comes with a HDMI out with dolby audio out. if it ran Linux it would be hard to address it with the OSS API. (N8 runs symbian^3) |
| 18:44.41 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh_ (~kthomas@r5j217.net.upc.cz) |
| 18:44.44 | RST38h | benno: you can easily enough transfer 6 values/sample in the OSS API |
| 18:44.50 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: I am currently using a mono 4" speaker for much of my audio. |
| 18:45.01 | RST38h | speedevil: same here |
| 18:46.16 | SpeedEvil | DAB radio - waterproof - 13h battery life, can drop a brick on it, and it will be a bit scuffed. |
| 18:46.27 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B08F395.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:46.53 | *** join/#maemo otubo (~otubo@201-1-91-225.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 18:47.11 | benno2 | RST38h, yes I know but then one has to standardize the stuff. today it's 6 values (5.1 out), tomorrow. or 3 values as said could mean 3 stereo outs etc. in that regard ALSA is more flexible and ready for such multichannel scenarios. and the API has remained quite stable lately. but I agree, OSS was quite straightforward to use. (except the mmap() API perhaps) |
| 18:47.16 | *** join/#maemo angasule (~angasule@190.2.33.49) |
| 18:47.36 | RST38h | benno: And believe it or not, OSS API supports this too |
| 18:52.51 | *** join/#maemo asj (~asj@218.185.108.156) |
| 18:55.05 | mece_ | hey anyone here have righttoleft lanuage input on their phone? |
| 18:56.23 | Arkenoi | why if i set up an adhoc network once, it is stuck as visible forever even if it is not in range and gone for good? |
| 18:56.38 | Corsac | because it's adhoc? |
| 18:56.57 | crashanddie | Arkenoi: it's the whole point of ad-hoc |
| 18:56.59 | Corsac | there's no such thing as âout of rangeâ for ad-hoc networks |
| 18:58.03 | ManoftheSea | um |
| 18:58.19 | ManoftheSea | there is, just not that the device can tell you. |
| 18:58.25 | ManoftheSea | It's gonna form a network of one. |
| 18:58.42 | ManoftheSea | But a network of one is pretty much what I'd define as "out of range" |
| 18:59.10 | crashanddie | ManoftheSea: except anyone can connect to it |
| 19:01.12 | *** join/#maemo DHR (~hugh@CPE00606767ed59-CM000f9fa81660.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 19:01.20 | Corsac | (and that's the point, again) |
| 19:01.23 | *** join/#maemo Creteil (bigbob@vlm28-1-88-177-120-215.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:01.28 | Creteil | hi all |
| 19:01.32 | crashanddie | It's like the "Free Public Wifi" ad-hoc network that has travelled around the world and then some |
| 19:01.59 | Creteil | someone know how I can fetch directly the modest-3.4 branch from git ? |
| 19:03.04 | Creteil | I have successfully get the tarball from gitorious and build it, but I want to be able to get latest comit's with a simple git pull in this branch ... |
| 19:05.27 | Creteil | allo ? |
| 19:06.08 | crashanddie | Creteil: ask in #git? |
| 19:06.11 | *** join/#maemo crs (~crs@gentoo/user/crs) |
| 19:06.59 | 18VAA2N09 | hello |
| 19:07.27 | 18VAA2N09 | where could I study nanotechnology and help to in developing it |
| 19:07.38 | *** join/#maemo kW (~kW@unaffiliated/kw) |
| 19:07.50 | Stskeeps | university is a good bet |
| 19:08.17 | 18VAA2N09 | MIT? |
| 19:08.39 | Creteil | crashanddie, hehehe, not a bad idea :-) |
| 19:08.40 | Stskeeps | check their research centers |
| 19:08.51 | trumee | i uploaded some images using picasaweb sharing plugin, the uploaded images dont have latitude and longitude |
| 19:09.15 | trumee | i have noticed same thing with facebook sharing plugin as well. is that a bug? |
| 19:09.19 | crashanddie | 18VAA2N09: really the wrong channel |
| 19:09.22 | jacekowski | 18VAA2N09: if i were you i wouldn't aim for MIT after asking that sort of question |
| 19:09.27 | trumee | or am i missing something. |
| 19:09.32 | crashanddie | jacekowski: good point |
| 19:09.45 | crashanddie | 18VAA2N09: what's your knowledge of nanotechnology? |
| 19:10.19 | 18VAA2N09 | nothing much, but I don't know eny other way to help make life better xD |
| 19:10.25 | jacekowski | i would like to do some sort of bioengineering bioinformatics stuff |
| 19:10.26 | 18VAA2N09 | any* |
| 19:10.30 | mece_ | trumee, you can choose in options of the sharing if you want to include precise positioning, iirc |
| 19:10.50 | jacekowski | but i'm too old for that now |
| 19:11.07 | lcuk | you are never too old to try something |
| 19:11.17 | jacekowski | i would have to get a-level's in biology and chemistry |
| 19:11.26 | jacekowski | which is at least 2 years |
| 19:11.33 | frals | fuckin hell why doesnt ikea.fi have the site available in swedish |
| 19:11.33 | lcuk | 18VAA2N09, great you came to maemo to askthose questions, we are all about making things work in tiny boxes :D |
| 19:11.34 | pexi | biochemistry |
| 19:11.37 | frals | blames lcuk |
| 19:11.38 | *** join/#maemo hrw|n900 (~hrw@chello089078170228.chello.pl) |
| 19:11.47 | hrw|n900 | hi |
| 19:11.53 | lcuk | frals, why the hell dont you work at ikea :P |
| 19:12.00 | jacekowski | and then another couple years at uni |
| 19:12.12 | frals | according to my friend who works for them in sweden they pay isnt that good! |
| 19:12.44 | pexi | if you fail, with biochemistry you can always choose to go for the M.D road :) |
| 19:12.50 | lcuk | its the only workplace you can do naked tho - so that solves one of your crisis questions |
| 19:12.52 | trumee | mece_: I have three options in sharing 1) Keep all 2) Remove gps coord and 3) Remove all in file. I had selected 1) but still the coordinates were lost |
| 19:13.07 | frals | lol lcuk |
| 19:13.18 | mece_ | trumee, did you have positioning enabled elsewhere? |
| 19:13.19 | lcuk | hi hrw|n900 \o |
| 19:13.49 | lcuk | trumee, did the images have gpd coordinates embedded ? |
| 19:14.00 | trumee | mece_: The images have coordinates in them. I can see it in image details |
| 19:14.17 | trumee | lcuk: yes, the gps coordinates are embedded |
| 19:14.26 | *** part/#maemo Creteil (bigbob@vlm28-1-88-177-120-215.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:14.27 | hrw|n900 | how many of you use hermes? |
| 19:15.29 | trumee | lcuk: Image details shows GPS Long/Lat/Alt on N900. But picasaweb doesnt have that info |
| 19:15.35 | trumee | hrw|n900: i have used hermes |
| 19:15.46 | lcuk | ok trumee does picasaweb resave the images and lose them? |
| 19:15.57 | crashanddie | lcuk: no, the N900 probably does |
| 19:16.13 | crashanddie | trumee: are you sharing at full size? |
| 19:16.26 | *** join/#maemo trupheenix (~quassel@111.119.240.224) |
| 19:16.36 | lcuk | hes already answered the question about tags to keep |
| 19:16.55 | lcuk | trumee, how about uploading another and confirming you hit 1 |
| 19:16.57 | trumee | crashanddie: Image size is set to "Preserve Original" |
| 19:16.58 | *** join/#maemo Xam (~Xam@79.165.173.146) |
| 19:17.18 | trumee | lcuk: ok, going to try it again. |
| 19:17.18 | *** join/#maemo testr (~Miranda@212.233.138.39) |
| 19:18.32 | lcuk | crashanddie, doctorwho was awesome this week :D |
| 19:18.48 | crashanddie | lcuk: haven't watched it, haven't watched any with the new doctor |
| 19:18.51 | *** join/#maemo rcampbell (~ryan@S01060013103d5208.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 19:18.56 | crashanddie | lcuk: I think i won't be able to watch him |
| 19:19.18 | lcuk | heh |
| 19:19.20 | trumee | lcuk: confirmed, picasaweb doesnt show the coordinates |
| 19:19.25 | crashanddie | trumee: link? |
| 19:19.45 | lcuk | trumee, does it retain the other information tho? |
| 19:19.54 | trumee | lcuk: yes it does |
| 19:19.57 | lcuk | since you selected option (1) which was keep everything |
| 19:20.20 | lcuk | and the source image you just uploaded DID have gps in confirmed? |
| 19:20.36 | lcuk | if thats the case: bug time |
| 19:20.36 | SpeedEvil | If you're uploading to picasa an image that includes EXIF GPS in, and picasa is not using it, that's picasas problem |
| 19:20.39 | crashanddie | lcuk & trumee: I doubt picasaweb would remove any kind of exif data. You could check the source of the exporter plugin |
| 19:20.45 | GAN900 | crashanddie, sucker. |
| 19:20.46 | SpeedEvil | Also |
| 19:20.52 | crashanddie | GAN900: wanker |
| 19:20.53 | SpeedEvil | there is a google command line thingy |
| 19:20.54 | trumee | lcuk, crashanddie:http://pastebin.com/xftWXtXi |
| 19:21.09 | crashanddie | trumee: LINK? |
| 19:21.24 | SpeedEvil | http://code.google.com/p/googlecl/wiki/ExampleScripts |
| 19:21.27 | crashanddie | trumee: just take a bloody picture and upload it. |
| 19:21.28 | SpeedEvil | very handy |
| 19:21.36 | SpeedEvil | it uploads to picasa using python |
| 19:21.42 | SpeedEvil | (and does many other things) |
| 19:22.10 | *** part/#maemo Venemo (~Venemo@host-94-248-202-178.kabelnet.hu) |
| 19:23.48 | *** part/#maemo hrw|n900 (~hrw@chello089078170228.chello.pl) |
| 19:23.56 | hrw | hi |
| 19:24.12 | *** join/#maemo ofauchon (~ofauchon_@LNeuilly-152-22-24-165.w193-251.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:25.21 | trumee | crashanddie: here you go, http://picasaweb.google.com/rajil.s/Test#5484566361256225154 |
| 19:26.45 | ofauchon | Hi ... 2 days ago, my N900 went off, and was rebooting. I reflashed (System first, then eMMC, with battery full). Now I can see the five dots animation, and then it reboots forever. Any idea ? thx |
| 19:27.00 | hrw | Jaffa: present? |
| 19:27.59 | trumee | crashanddie: so it is a bug in picasaweb? |
| 19:28.26 | crashanddie | trumee: Latitude: 52° 12' 16" N |
| 19:28.34 | crashanddie | Longitude: 0° 7' 3" E |
| 19:29.09 | trumee | crashanddie: where do you see that? |
| 19:29.10 | *** join/#maemo watakushi (~watakushi@host52-248-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:29.25 | crashanddie | trumee: after downloading the picture |
| 19:29.36 | crashanddie | trumee: so picasa just doesn't display it |
| 19:29.44 | trumee | crashanddie: ah!, so picasaweb doesnt display the tags right |
| 19:29.50 | crashanddie | indeed |
| 19:30.13 | trumee | crashanddie: facebook also has a similar issue i think |
| 19:30.51 | crashanddie | trumee: go to picasa web settings |
| 19:31.37 | trumee | crashanddie:cool. got it! |
| 19:31.47 | crashanddie | trumee: make sure the "use my gps camera's longitude information" |
| 19:32.04 | trumee | crashanddie: "Automatically map photos if they contain location data." |
| 19:32.17 | crashanddie | hmm |
| 19:32.58 | trumee | crashanddie: i had the above option, and enabling it shows the right tags |
| 19:33.58 | crashanddie | there you go :) |
| 19:34.28 | *** part/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 19:34.32 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 19:34.38 | crashanddie | wrong button |
| 19:37.31 | *** join/#maemo ceyusa (~vjaquez@95.61.238.167) |
| 19:37.50 | mece_ | soo.. anyone around with arabic or hebrew input on their phone? |
| 19:38.34 | trumee | crashanddie: if i tag the photo in N900 (e.g. travel) while sharing, the gps tags are lost on upload |
| 19:39.35 | trumee | crashanddie: nope i was wrong |
| 19:40.13 | trumee | crashanddie: the tags are retained, i checked it by downloading the image from picasaweb. So it is a picasa problem. Not to worry |
| 19:40.27 | crashanddie | trumee: use flickr :P |
| 19:40.54 | trumee | crashanddie: is there a sharing plugin for flickr? |
| 19:41.08 | crashanddie | trumee: yeah, it's shipped by default |
| 19:41.25 | crashanddie | trumee: it's the reason I started using flickr, when I got the N900 in Amsterdam |
| 19:41.29 | trumee | crashanddie:all my family is on gmail. so it is simpler to use picasa. |
| 19:41.58 | crashanddie | trumee: same here, Flickr just works a lot better overall |
| 19:42.43 | trumee | crashanddie: hmm. i will try it out |
| 19:43.13 | trumee | crashanddie: is it possible to set the album name from N900. In picasa everything goes to Dropbox which is painfull |
| 19:43.32 | trumee | crashanddie: and i meant for flickr btw. |
| 19:43.39 | *** join/#maemo cure` (~cure@rzavelli.demon.nl) |
| 19:44.00 | *** join/#maemo jasd (~dj@unaffiliated/jasd) |
| 19:44.53 | mece_ | trumee, in share via service->options, isn't there a "choose album"? |
| 19:45.32 | trumee | mece_: I want to create a new album instead of choosing an existing album name. |
| 19:48.05 | DocScrutinizer | ovi share FTW :-P |
| 19:48.46 | mece_ | I use ovi share |
| 19:48.57 | DocScrutinizer | and yes, the 'create new album" option obviously is missing |
| 19:48.57 | mece_ | trumee, I don't think you can from the plugin |
| 19:49.07 | Stskeeps | got the 3d driver in N8x0 working. |
| 19:49.10 | mece_ | Denmaaaaaaaark! |
| 19:49.15 | mece_ | \o/ |
| 19:49.27 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: you rock! |
| 19:49.43 | mece_ | Stskeeps, omg! That took a while ;) You rock! |
| 19:49.58 | Stskeeps | there's a bunch of HW recovery stuff, but i see stuff spinning on my screen |
| 19:50.06 | mece_ | yay verily yay! |
| 19:50.11 | *** join/#maemo HarryS (H@harry.lu) |
| 19:50.20 | mece_ | Stskeep++ |
| 19:50.21 | mece_ | ? |
| 19:50.26 | mece_ | öh I forget how that is done |
| 19:51.09 | Stskeeps | hehe |
| 19:51.38 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Venemo@host-94-248-202-178.kabelnet.hu) |
| 19:51.53 | DocScrutinizer | ~stskeeps++ |
| 19:52.08 | lcuk | Stskeeps, is that on diablo? |
| 19:52.11 | DocScrutinizer | now I have to kick myself :-P |
| 19:52.11 | Stskeeps | lcuk: yes |
| 19:52.16 | lcuk | kickass \o/ |
| 19:52.37 | Stskeeps | still a lot of work to be done but the principle works |
| 19:52.49 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 19:52.55 | trumee | crashanddie: do i need to enable gps coord in flickr, as i did with picasaweb. The long/lat tags re not showing up in flickr. |
| 19:52.56 | lcuk | sure, so this is an advance on the 3d driver working a while ago? :D |
| 19:53.39 | crashanddie | trumee: look at advanced Exif |
| 19:53.41 | Stskeeps | there's some things we need to look at still, but this is useful |
| 19:54.17 | Stskeeps | http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/maemo.org/gl/wrapperwsegl.c |
| 19:54.24 | Stskeeps | scroll down to wseglSwapDrawable |
| 19:54.37 | *** join/#maemo lcukn900 (~lcuk@82.132.248.120) |
| 19:54.40 | solrize | Oh heh, "remote sim mode" doesn't do anything like what it sounded like. which raises the question, is it possible to do what it sounded like? i.e. proxy a sim card between two phones via bluetooth |
| 19:55.16 | alterego | solrize: no, not really. |
| 19:55.18 | trumee | crashanddie: http://www.flickr.com/photos/67572716@N00/4714633781/ |
| 19:55.39 | trumee | crashanddie: The exif data doesnt show gps lat/long |
| 19:55.40 | DocScrutinizer | solrize: you'd need the AT+CSIM method in modem for that, and it's usually crippled or nonexistent, aiui |
| 19:55.40 | solrize | alterego, hmm, what's the issue? data rate? latency? |
| 19:55.41 | lcuk | Stskeeps, ewww - you define fd=-1; then test if(fd==-1) :p |
| 19:56.07 | solrize | DocScrutinizer, hmm. |
| 19:56.11 | lcuk | and even then dont check that you actually managed to open it correctly! |
| 19:56.28 | Stskeeps | lcuk: static |
| 19:56.29 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 19:56.33 | Stskeeps | lcuk: and yes.. |
| 19:56.33 | crashanddie | trumee: doesn't appear to have it |
| 19:56.34 | Stskeeps | it is ugly |
| 19:56.35 | lcuk | the update there is what you were asking me last night were you |
| 19:56.39 | Stskeeps | :nod: |
| 19:56.48 | alterego | solrize: it's just not possible, no one has or will bother writing that feature, what would be the point? |
| 19:56.52 | lcuk | eep didnt see the static and yeah thats ugly ass |
| 19:56.52 | trumee | crashanddie: so N900 ate it while uploading. |
| 19:57.12 | crashanddie | it did |
| 19:57.17 | *** join/#maemo cure` (~cure@rzavelli.demon.nl) |
| 19:57.32 | crashanddie | trumee: http://www.flickr.com/photos/byte/3079897126/meta/ |
| 19:57.37 | crashanddie | trumee: this one has full gps data |
| 19:57.38 | solrize | http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7137565/description.html somebody seems to have patented it! found that by googling at+csim |
| 19:57.38 | mece_ | what is up with autobuilder again? |
| 19:57.54 | DocScrutinizer | check your upload options! you can remove geotags iirc |
| 19:58.23 | crashanddie | trumee: http://www.flickr.com/account/geo/exif/?from=privacy |
| 19:59.15 | DocScrutinizer | and that's a persistent setting (thank gods of hildon) |
| 20:02.04 | solrize | The Neo1973 will support +CSIM, but for security reasons, no access to |
| 20:02.04 | solrize | GSM applications (instruction class 0xA0) is allowed. |
| 20:02.10 | solrize | what's the security issue? |
| 20:02.29 | DocScrutinizer | (AT+CSIM) there's actually *one* phone that has full support, when you update modem firmware to http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/calypso_moko_FW/moko11/ |
| 20:02.50 | trumee | crashanddie: yup, with that link it works now. Thanks |
| 20:04.13 | DocScrutinizer | (two phones to be precise: 1973 and Freerunner) |
| 20:04.23 | mece_ | OMG FUCKING ABULL_UK!!!!!! AAARGH!! *rips hair out* |
| 20:04.42 | mece_ | s/ABULL/ABILL/ |
| 20:04.53 | mece_ | haha. made infobot swear. Shame on you infobot |
| 20:05.38 | DocScrutinizer | you could repeat that several times even :-P |
| 20:05.41 | solrize | are those functions accessible from the sim card through a smart card reader? and is the sim part of the gsm radio, i.e. not directly accessible from the phone? that surprises me since it's full of address book info etc |
| 20:05.49 | lauri | hey guys, does anyone of you know how are those two-line buttons made (like the ones in addressbook)? |
| 20:05.54 | RST38h | what? he went out of his mind again/ |
| 20:05.55 | RST38h | ? |
| 20:06.06 | mece_ | lauri, two-line? Que? |
| 20:06.08 | RST38h | lauri: there is a secondary text |
| 20:06.11 | DocScrutinizer | solrize: yes |
| 20:06.20 | crashanddie | mece_: that's enough |
| 20:06.29 | mece_ | crashanddie, sorry. |
| 20:07.09 | lauri | RST38h: how is it implemented? |
| 20:07.17 | *** join/#maemo thuttu77 (~thuttu77@a88-112-28-227.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:08.37 | crashanddie | lmao, in "The Sound of Music", the uncle suddenly calls the kids "You bunch of gloomy pussies" |
| 20:09.09 | Jaffa | hrw: yes, but intermittently and possibly not in a receptive mood now. |
| 20:09.46 | mece_ | lauri, like this: http://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs_unstable/tutorial/html/sec-Buttons.html |
| 20:09.48 | crashanddie | Jaffa: "CATCH" |
| 20:10.27 | lauri | mece_: I see, what about PyQt4? |
| 20:10.49 | GAN900 | Jaffa, "not in a receptive mood"? :D |
| 20:11.19 | mece_ | lauri, hmm. dunno about that. I haven't tried to make any. |
| 20:11.22 | ofauchon | Jaffa, could you help me with a bricked n900 (reboots when dots cycling) . I did everything : Full Battery, System then eMMC.... No more idea |
| 20:11.42 | GAN900 | Does anybody else find the whole "New Ovi stuff is coming Thursday!" thing completely hilarious? |
| 20:11.44 | Jaffa | GAN900: I'm channeling Nokia ;-) |
| 20:11.58 | GAN900 | When was Ovi launched for Maemo? |
| 20:12.01 | Jaffa | Is this "new new new new new Ovi"? |
| 20:12.02 | lcuk | ofauchon, i hope you did not boot inbetween flash rootfs and emmc |
| 20:12.02 | mece_ | GAN900, haha that was pretty funny. |
| 20:12.08 | GAN900 | How long until we get paid apps, you think? |
| 20:12.14 | *** join/#maemo mw22 (~chatzilla@cc528723-b.mp1.dr.home.nl) |
| 20:12.19 | mece_ | GAN900, I did buy zen bound today though :) |
| 20:12.21 | GAN900 | Jaffa, the PR1.2 Ovi, yeah. |
| 20:12.28 | ofauchon | lcuk, what's the problem if I did ? |
| 20:12.48 | lcuk | if you did you just wiped out the /opt content put there on first boot after flashing |
| 20:13.10 | ofauchon | lcuk, I did 1/ Flash system 2/Flash eMMc /3 reboot |
| 20:13.59 | ofauchon | and many other things like enabling rd mode .. with no success |
| 20:14.02 | solrize | the openmoko phone seems to be pretty dead |
| 20:14.13 | lcuk | ofauchon, what caused this problem in the first place |
| 20:14.18 | DocScrutinizer | solrize: === Moko9-Beta2 === * Adds "AT+CSIM" (for swisscom) [and we didn't feel like protecting the SIM from user, for any security issues(instruction class 0xA0)] - see http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/calypso_moko_FW/all_version__CHANGELOG.txt |
| 20:15.04 | ofauchon | Don't know... I woke up, the phone was off . When I switched it on , it was rebooting |
| 20:15.28 | ofauchon | I may try to compile a framebuffer console kernel... |
| 20:15.38 | ofauchon | boring |
| 20:15.48 | DocScrutinizer | battery flat? |
| 20:16.05 | ofauchon | I charged the battery with another phone... it's 100% |
| 20:16.17 | DocScrutinizer | ponders waking up as well now |
| 20:16.49 | Kaadlajk | lauri: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo-4.6/qmaemo5valuebutton.html |
| 20:16.52 | lcuk | only thing i can suggest if try once again with the reflashing specifically and then if that fails its down to nokia i guess |
| 20:17.05 | lauri | lcuk: I was almost there :P |
| 20:17.06 | lauri | thanks |
| 20:17.08 | solrize | DocScrutinizer, yeah, it looks difficult/impossible to buy those phones any more... and i'm still wondering what the security issue is or what those 0xa0 instructions do. maybe if i put the sim in some external device instead of another phone, the n900 can spoof it to its internal gsm modem? |
| 20:17.30 | lcuk | lauri, ? |
| 20:17.51 | lauri | lcuk: I was browsing Qt4-s Maemo specific features list |
| 20:18.02 | DocScrutinizer | solrize: nope for spoof on N900, and for sure you can for buying Freerunners |
| 20:19.11 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: clas 0x0A is access to on sim authentication algorithm etc iirc |
| 20:19.28 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: eh? |
| 20:19.32 | *** join/#maemo MarcusM (~user@0x573ebd02.cpe.ge-0-2-0-1104.mrbnqu1.customer.tele.dk) |
| 20:19.52 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: AT+CSIM class 0x0A commands |
| 20:20.07 | *** join/#maemo flailingmonkey (~user@static-98-140-86-94.dsl.cavtel.net) |
| 20:20.20 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: oops, sorry ETAB |
| 20:20.30 | flailingmonkey | howdy |
| 20:20.32 | DocScrutinizer | solrize: ^^^ |
| 20:20.34 | crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: why the hell are you talking me? |
| 20:20.40 | flailingmonkey | timeless: ping |
| 20:22.01 | MarcusM | Heya guys. |
| 20:22.14 | solrize | DocScrutinizer, thanks. it looks like rSAP does something like what i want but only for incoming calls? outgoing needs one of those restricted 0xa0 commands? |
| 20:22.20 | lcuk | denmark won against cameroon |
| 20:22.33 | MarcusM | lcuk: weve won now? |
| 20:22.42 | MarcusM | didnt think the match was over |
| 20:22.47 | lcuk | yeah just |
| 20:22.59 | MarcusM | aha. brilliant, i guess |
| 20:23.56 | lcuk | first ever danish win? |
| 20:24.26 | luke-jr | Danish can't possibly win. |
| 20:24.35 | MarcusM | well, in this wm, or what you call it |
| 20:25.05 | MarcusM | we lost against holland the 1st match |
| 20:25.08 | lcuk | luke-jr, sure they can, like anyone else in the world cup its about luck lol |
| 20:25.11 | luke-jr | oh; I guess since all WM suck quite a bit, it wouldn't take much for Danish to win there |
| 20:25.37 | luke-jr | it doesn't take much for a Window Manager to be decent, but somehow all I've seen screw it up |
| 20:25.39 | luke-jr | :/ |
| 20:25.53 | luke-jr | what's this Danish one called? |
| 20:26.02 | DocScrutinizer | solrize: sorry that's beyond my knowledge of the issue |
| 20:26.29 | DocScrutinizer | solrize: at least ATM |
| 20:26.35 | MarcusM | luke-jr: wut? :p |
| 20:27.08 | luke-jr | ... |
| 20:27.20 | DocScrutinizer | solrize: basically AT+CSIM is not related to either in- or outbound calls. It's about registration to the network and similar things |
| 20:28.32 | trumee | Wifi Power Saving + g729= Crappy sip calls on N900 |
| 20:28.38 | DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: you're sure you're not talking bout wordcount (WC) ? |
| 20:29.10 | DocScrutinizer | trumee: not related to g729 |
| 20:29.17 | trumee | i wonder whether there was any wlan power saving on N95. It works well with g729 |
| 20:29.35 | *** join/#maemo g55 (~g55@rgnb-5d87c66b.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 20:29.42 | trumee | DocScrutinizer: dunno. ulaw behaves better here than g729. |
| 20:29.44 | solrize | DocScrutinizer, thanks. ok, forget about actual sim proxying for the moment, does the idea of using another phone as a remote UI for an n900 sound worthwhile? |
| 20:29.52 | DocScrutinizer | trumee: strange |
| 20:29.56 | luke-jr | trumee: WiFi power saving was always a bad joke |
| 20:30.29 | trumee | luke-jr: are there any statistics on whether it makes a difference? |
| 20:30.48 | flailingmonkey | trumee: what wifi power setting |
| 20:30.50 | trumee | luke-jr: The warning message on disabling it is "terrifying". |
| 20:31.29 | trumee | flailingmonkey: Wlan power saving under connections tab. |
| 20:31.30 | DocScrutinizer | solrize: don't ask me. I'm just aware of usecases like built-in phones in cars to share the SIM of the mobile and do a full proxy |
| 20:32.01 | *** join/#maemo Venemo1 (~Venemo@host-94-248-202-178.kabelnet.hu) |
| 20:32.07 | luke-jr | trumee: uh, personal experience of anyone who's tried to SSH to a PSM-enabled wifi client? |
| 20:32.38 | trumee | luke-jr: i do that all the time. never had any issue with this. |
| 20:32.39 | solrize | DocScrutinizer, yeah, that's what rsap is for, so your incoming calls can go to the car phone, but you can't make outgoing calls that way. i didn't even realize that car handsfree systems had their own gsm radio though, i thought they were just like headsets |
| 20:32.43 | flailingmonkey | trumee: i see it now. |
| 20:32.52 | DocScrutinizer | trumee: probably g711 simply has much higher bandwidth than g729 on WLAN, so the PSM doesn't kick in |
| 20:33.18 | trumee | DocScrutinizer: could be that. |
| 20:34.01 | SpeedEvil | trumee: It's lots |
| 20:34.11 | DocScrutinizer | solrize: there are both types. and for the one with GSM function (TX/RX) it should work for outbound calls as well as inbound |
| 20:34.29 | MarcusM | it really feels like the battery life has been improved since 1.2 |
| 20:34.32 | SpeedEvil | trumee: It - without powersave - uses around 1/6th of the battery per hour - solely for wifi - with cpu idle, and backlight off |
| 20:35.01 | SpeedEvil | trumee: Wtih powersave on (and a supporting AP) it's more like 1/300th |
| 20:35.33 | trumee | SpeedEvil: hmm. that is a big difference. Any idea if N95 had power saving enabled? |
| 20:36.10 | trumee | SpeedEvil:N95 does sip calls perfectly with battery life equal to N900 |
| 20:36.15 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: With ssh - max powersaving mode - I get ~200-400ms interactive. |
| 20:36.31 | solrize | DocScrutinizer, hmm, well that should do everything i want then. the idea is to just leave the big n900 (or an even bigger successor that might be ipad sized) in my bag, and use a small symbian phone as a remote handset for it |
| 20:37.29 | trumee | SpeedEvil: What about max and intermediate power saving. is there a big difference between them? |
| 20:37.50 | SpeedEvil | not tried intermediat |
| 20:38.00 | trumee | Bug 10388 is the issue |
| 20:38.01 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10388 Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem? |
| 20:38.45 | trumee | I am forced to use N95 for sip calls over wifi. Shameful for a NIT!!! |
| 20:39.07 | *** join/#maemo type_t (~type_t@c-98-228-74-254.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 20:39.32 | solrize | actually i have another idea which is kind of evil, which is to leave the sim plugged into a computer at home and connect to it over the internet from elsewhere |
| 20:40.20 | SpeedEvil | solrize: you can't normally do that - as the cell modem will not allow you to do that. |
| 20:40.42 | *** join/#maemo Vulcanis (~a_lovelac@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 20:40.49 | SpeedEvil | Unless it supports the various remote SIM protocols. |
| 20:41.10 | solrize | right, but these things do support rsap, the mode for car phones |
| 20:41.48 | Stskeeps | ponders idly if he blew out the MBX part of his n8x0 |
| 20:42.02 | SpeedEvil | yes - exactly. |
| 20:42.10 | GAN900 | Stskeeps, seriously? |
| 20:43.39 | solrize | SpeedEvil, do you know where the gsm speech codec lives? ie can i just sent my own bit stream through the cell modem? either an arbitrary bit stream, or a gsm-coded voice stream that was made outside the phone (e.g. for a voice mail system) |
| 20:43.51 | luke-jr | Stskeeps: I was wondering that about my GPS for a while, a few months ago. |
| 20:44.11 | luke-jr | Stskeeps: turned out an update had re-enabled serial console, which kinda interfered ;)\ |
| 20:44.35 | *** join/#maemo muelli (~muelli@port-92612.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 20:47.33 | *** join/#maemo _rd (~rd@p57B498ED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:47.49 | *** part/#maemo Venemo1 (~Venemo@host-94-248-202-178.kabelnet.hu) |
| 20:48.28 | mece_ | jacekowski, ping? |
| 20:48.43 | jacekowski | pong |
| 20:49.06 | jacekowski | mece_: |
| 20:49.07 | dotblank | I have observed weird behavior with portrait auto rotation in qt4 |
| 20:49.24 | DocScrutinizer | solrize: I know of no phone that supports SAP-client |
| 20:49.25 | mece_ | jacekowski, would you mind terribly to test qlister 0.2-7 with russian input and see if everything works as it should? |
| 20:49.25 | *** join/#maemo Venemo (~Venemo@host-94-248-202-178.kabelnet.hu) |
| 20:49.57 | jacekowski | mece_: well, that will be hard |
| 20:50.05 | jacekowski | mece_: i have normal english n900 |
| 20:50.10 | mece_ | jacekowski, ok. |
| 20:50.31 | SpeedEvil | solrize: that will never ever wrk |
| 20:50.42 | SpeedEvil | solrize: basically: |
| 20:50.52 | SpeedEvil | solrize: The transmitted audio path looks like: |
| 20:51.39 | solrize | DocScrutinizer, it really seems annoying that the phones put obstacles to prevent people from writing these applications.. i thought nokia WANTED people to write interesting phone apps |
| 20:51.55 | mece_ | jacekowski, nevermind then. I can write russian if I choose russian input, and it works, so I'll just have to go with that :) I see no reason why it shouldn't work. Just wanted to make sure. |
| 20:51.58 | alterego | So, just had a thought, can a truely open platform really bring in a horde of app developers when the whole point of our platform is openness and freesoftware? |
| 20:52.17 | jacekowski | alterego: not really |
| 20:52.19 | alterego | So far, obviously it's just really attracted, well, us .. |
| 20:52.20 | mece_ | anyone with a russian n900 around? Or hebrew, or arabic, or chinese? |
| 20:52.23 | jacekowski | alterego: it's all about marketing |
| 20:52.26 | SpeedEvil | solrize: mic->signal processing ->GSM module audio in -> GSM encode -> radio -> radio errors ->GSM decode -> ISDN or other telco network -> GSM encode -> radio +errors -> GSM module RF in -> GSM decode -> speaker |
| 20:52.56 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: in n900 it goes trough omap and pulseaudio |
| 20:52.56 | SpeedEvil | solrize: There are at least two codecs in the chain that you can't control, and additionally bit errors. So that never works |
| 20:53.12 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: yes - that was the 'signal processing' step - it's largely irrelevant |
| 20:53.13 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 20:53.22 | jacekowski | what is he doing? |
| 20:53.39 | DocScrutinizer | AEC |
| 20:53.45 | DocScrutinizer | it seems |
| 20:53.48 | jacekowski | aec? |
| 20:54.01 | DocScrutinizer | Acoustic Echo Cancellation |
| 20:54.04 | solrize | SpeedEvil, thanks, yeah that's basically what i was asking. i can deal with the bit errors but it's annoying to mess up the sound with another layer of encode/decode |
| 20:54.12 | SpeedEvil | solrize: you can't. |
| 20:54.18 | SpeedEvil | solrize: You're missing the point. |
| 20:54.33 | SpeedEvil | solrize: There are already two or three other codecs that you have no control over. |
| 20:54.45 | jacekowski | sort of |
| 20:54.50 | SpeedEvil | solrize: And the presence of bit errors means those codecs act like encryption to non-voice signals. |
| 20:54.52 | jacekowski | these codes behave in a specific way |
| 20:54.55 | lcuk | was meant to be gone this w/e |
| 20:55.03 | SpeedEvil | They intentionally throw away non-voice like signals. |
| 20:55.24 | jacekowski | SpeedEvil: but you can abuse it to send your signal |
| 20:55.26 | solrize | right, that's what i mean. is that stuff inside the module though, or is there more stuff in the network also doing that? |
| 20:55.28 | satmd | not exactly encryption |
| 20:55.28 | jacekowski | at low bitrate |
| 20:55.44 | jacekowski | solrize: just module |
| 20:55.45 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: yes, at a bitrate of maybe 10/s |
| 20:55.52 | mece_ | it appears lcuk failed then... |
| 20:55.58 | SpeedEvil | solrize: Only the step up to the first 'radio' is in hte phone |
| 20:56.02 | DocScrutinizer | maybe even 100/s if you're good in designing such stuff |
| 20:56.13 | lcuk | mece_, yup, i lost will to be awake this morning and fell back asleep |
| 20:56.17 | jacekowski | codes itself uses 9.6k |
| 20:56.19 | jacekowski | iirc |
| 20:56.24 | solrize | jacekowski, 13k |
| 20:56.34 | SpeedEvil | solrize: The rest is in the cell tower it's connected to, the far cell tower, the network between the tower, and maybe even the PSTN it's tunneling through |
| 20:56.35 | mece_ | lcuk, ow.. |
| 20:56.38 | jacekowski | so you can probably push 4-5k over it |
| 20:56.47 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: You really can't. |
| 20:57.01 | jacekowski | i did that |
| 20:57.07 | jacekowski | over voip |
| 20:57.08 | *** join/#maemo djkrikke (~djkrikke@d54C2F708.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:57.09 | lcuk | ad now i have the most stinky headache ever and no desire to code or do anyfink actually |
| 20:57.10 | jacekowski | but using gsm codec |
| 20:57.12 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: The codec intentionally throws away non voice-like signals. |
| 20:57.31 | jacekowski | but you can generate voice like signal |
| 20:57.32 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: That is - talking of standard GSM voice channels |
| 20:57.35 | SpeedEvil | Sure. |
| 20:57.39 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: no, you can't |
| 20:57.48 | jacekowski | ffs |
| 20:57.53 | jacekowski | don't tell me what i can't do |
| 20:58.10 | SpeedEvil | One _horribly_involved_ hack got 1300bits/second using a synthetic throat, driven by data, and basically a voice recogniser on the other end |
| 20:58.23 | djkrikke | Hi guys, I notice that when I'm in the inbox of a pop3 mail box, send myself an email using another computer, "send and receive" on the n900...it refreshes....but doesn't show any new mail in the list. So I get out the inbox, join it again, and there is my e-mail. Can someone try this as well, so I can possibly report this as a bug? |
| 20:58.41 | jacekowski | djkrikke: it's by design |
| 20:58.51 | djkrikke | I'm curious? |
| 20:58.51 | luke-jr | djkrikke: POP3 is long obsolete |
| 20:58.57 | CutMeOwnThroat | SpeedEvil, yes? |
| 20:59.09 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 20:59.13 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: the highest bitrate you can possibly get thru GSM voiceband is someone reading a text loud, and far and typewriting it |
| 20:59.15 | SpeedEvil | CutMeOwnThroat: |
| 20:59.15 | solrize | i guess there's no way to have a gsm to gsm call without the demodulation by the pots network, but at least there's a sensible reason for that |
| 20:59.21 | CutMeOwnThroat | oh, you said synthetic throat... must have misheard |
| 20:59.25 | SpeedEvil | solrize: There is. |
| 20:59.30 | djkrikke | jacekowski, design? |
| 20:59.38 | SpeedEvil | solrize: It's called circuit switched data |
| 20:59.39 | djkrikke | luke-jr: That isn't the discussion :) |
| 20:59.41 | solrize | gprs? |
| 20:59.57 | SpeedEvil | solrize: And is fairly expensive, and not enabled for many/most peoples accounts |
| 21:00.09 | solrize | it presents as a different type of call to the network, i guess |
| 21:00.13 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 21:00.19 | solrize | stupid telco scams :) |
| 21:00.22 | DocScrutinizer | solrize: there is a thing called CSD though, a dialup dazaconection from gsm to gsm |
| 21:00.54 | DocScrutinizer | damn, SpeedEvil constantly beats me |
| 21:00.54 | jacekowski | well, it's not expensive |
| 21:01.02 | jacekowski | it's same price as voice call |
| 21:01.08 | jacekowski | sometimes cheaper |
| 21:01.23 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: it's better than someone reading aloud. It is every differentiable sound makable by a human voicebox that can be sent over GSM - split by GSM frame time |
| 21:01.32 | *** join/#maemo lcukn900 (~lcuk@82.132.248.120) |
| 21:02.07 | SpeedEvil | (where makeable by a human voicebox is shorthand for 'encodable without errors by a GSM codec in the face of typical line condititons) |
| 21:02.14 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: language would serve for the 'codec' though |
| 21:02.28 | solrize | so can the n900 let me route its linux /dev/audio to the gsm audio input, instead of using hte microphone? like if i want to program my own answering machine on the n900 |
| 21:02.37 | djkrikke | jacekowski, what did you mean with design? |
| 21:02.39 | SpeedEvil | 1300 bits/second is way better than an order of magnitude better than voice. |
| 21:02.47 | SpeedEvil | solrize: The n900 can. |
| 21:02.58 | SpeedEvil | solrize: Indeed - the call normally goes through the CPU. |
| 21:03.06 | solrize | ah, cool |
| 21:03.09 | SpeedEvil | solrize: If the maemo stack will let you is another question. |
| 21:03.09 | jacekowski | djkrikke: check bugzilla |
| 21:03.32 | SpeedEvil | solrize: I suspect the answer is 'no, not without completely rearchitecting the system, and writing your own phone client' |
| 21:04.03 | DocScrutinizer | yep :-S |
| 21:04.09 | SpeedEvil | solrize: http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Jyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf - may be interesting to you. |
| 21:04.26 | SpeedEvil | (pulseaudio as used in the n900 to do phone calls) |
| 21:04.41 | solrize | hmm. well i know that it's possible to bypass the mic since the whole bluetooth headset system does exactly that |
| 21:05.06 | solrize | so if i can intercept the bluetooth stuff in the maemo stack... |
| 21:05.08 | SpeedEvil | It's definately possible in software. |
| 21:05.32 | SpeedEvil | If you can do it without stopping the existing software, or confusing it to the state it malfunctions is almost certainly a no. |
| 21:05.33 | solrize | thanks. so things aren't quite pessimal ;) |
| 21:05.42 | DocScrutinizer | but very questionable if the PA policy enforcer engine allows you to do that |
| 21:06.43 | solrize | PA policy enforcer? what is that and what is it doing in a supposedly open system? :) |
| 21:06.43 | SpeedEvil | It's not only PA - it's all of the call handling stuff that is basically - as I understand it - generally completely closed. |
| 21:06.43 | SpeedEvil | ~closed |
| 21:06.44 | infobot | methinks closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages |
| 21:06.44 | SpeedEvil | REgrettably not all the parts are open |
| 21:06.44 | SpeedEvil | looks at infobot. |
| 21:06.44 | DocScrutinizer | ~factinfo closed |
| 21:06.44 | infobot | closed -- created by timeless_mbp <n=timeless@192.100.124.156> at Mon Jan 11 20:52:30 2010 (159 days); it has been requested 12 times, last by SpeedEvil, 0s ago. |
| 21:06.44 | solrize | who are they trying to fool with this enforcer stuff anyway? it looks like i can get gsm modules from sparkfun with none of this enforcement stuff |
| 21:06.44 | *** join/#maemo cure` (~cure@rzavelli.demon.nl) |
| 21:06.44 | solrize | http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9533 |
| 21:06.50 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 21:07.48 | solrize | the media player is closed? hahahaha it is a piece of crap anyway. i'd like to port rockbox to the phone |
| 21:07.55 | *** join/#maemo type_t (~type_t@c-98-228-74-254.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 21:08.04 | *** part/#maemo Venemo (~Venemo@host-94-248-202-178.kabelnet.hu) |
| 21:08.31 | SpeedEvil | Bits of code are popping up that are promising to replace bits of architecture. |
| 21:08.46 | SpeedEvil | For example - 'cuteexplorer' is almost a perfect replacement for the file manager. |
| 21:09.04 | SpeedEvil | And 'cron' is a perfect replacement for the calendar. :) |
| 21:09.21 | solrize | hee |
| 21:09.26 | DocScrutinizer | alarmed is - in fact |
| 21:10.09 | solrize | what is PA? |
| 21:10.24 | SpeedEvil | PulseAudio |
| 21:10.37 | SpeedEvil | http://blessn900.com/ - for example might be interesting as a camera app |
| 21:10.38 | *** join/#maemo testr (~Miranda@212.233.138.39) |
| 21:11.02 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: still I ponder to hack up the fileselectorlib to fix this issue for *all* apps on fremantle, not to replace HFM by cuteexplorer |
| 21:11.52 | SpeedEvil | that might be interesting, yes. |
| 21:12.18 | SpeedEvil | I was seeing the stock FM do odd things - like refusing to delete large files on ext2 |
| 21:12.31 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, indeed |
| 21:12.33 | SpeedEvil | I should try to debug that. |
| 21:12.38 | flailingmonkey | DocScrutinizer: speaking of which |
| 21:12.38 | lcuk | to the replacing bits |
| 21:12.46 | DocScrutinizer | that's another topic - for sure HFM is a retarded piece of sw |
| 21:12.50 | flailingmonkey | mece_: what was the link to you libhildonfm2 work? |
| 21:13.36 | DocScrutinizer | libhildonfm2, that was the name |
| 21:13.39 | flailingmonkey | alterego: I tried and voted qlister :) |
| 21:13.52 | flailingmonkey | ~libhildonfm2 |
| 21:13.53 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, libhildonfm2 is a piece of sh*t |
| 21:13.54 | SpeedEvil | Up or down? |
| 21:14.11 | flailingmonkey | I voted it up. |
| 21:15.25 | flailingmonkey | alterego: quick question, what do you think of a way to re-enable auto-rotation after you do a manual rotation? |
| 21:15.37 | mece_ | flailingmonkey: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=710395&postcount=14 |
| 21:15.39 | flailingmonkey | alterego: its not the most common usecase, just curious |
| 21:16.19 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: you had a look into the issue of libhildonfm2 to not allow cd .. on Phone and card? |
| 21:16.20 | solrize | wow, that blurless is a really cute idea, i didn't know you could read out from a ccd sensor without wiping it. they read while a long exposure is still in progress? |
| 21:16.27 | *** join/#maemo type_t (~type_t@c-98-228-74-254.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 21:16.29 | SpeedEvil | solrize: I suspect they don't |
| 21:16.45 | SpeedEvil | solrize: I suspect they simply take a short exposure pic, then a long exposure one |
| 21:17.03 | solrize | they say they don't. maybe they just mean the interval is short |
| 21:17.22 | mece_ | funny enough, my post in that thread was completely ignored, and the discussion went on, and people were discovering the problems I had and solved. Go figure. |
| 21:17.38 | mece_ | s/had and/had found and/ |
| 21:17.53 | SpeedEvil | solrize: They don't quite give detail sof the algorithm. |
| 21:17.55 | flailingmonkey | tmo needs a way to vote up posts, so they stand out |
| 21:18.11 | SpeedEvil | mece_: TMO is so fucking broken. |
| 21:18.14 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 21:19.25 | SpeedEvil | (though the above 'blessn900' would ideally really need to be opensource (or for them to have APIs to hook)) |
| 21:20.54 | lcuk | tmo has a way to vote up posts, but no way to show a view of only voted up posts |
| 21:21.05 | pupnik | what a great product, SpeedEvil (blessn900) |
| 21:21.06 | solrize | it's just as well that they don't give details since it's closed/commercial. (oh blech, they say patent pending) |
| 21:21.20 | SpeedEvil | sighs. |
| 21:21.39 | SpeedEvil | There is tons of prior art on this. |
| 21:23.05 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre) |
| 21:25.22 | solrize | oh cool, maybe something comparable can be written based on earlier publications then. i wonder if it can be done for chdk too |
| 21:25.52 | SpeedEvil | it's probably simpler just to take the pics, then postptocess |
| 21:26.05 | SpeedEvil | sighs at the patent system. |
| 21:26.27 | solrize | their digital zoom thing, is that just replacing crappy linear stretching with bicubic interpolation or something like that? |
| 21:26.42 | SpeedEvil | Patents should reward true brilliance, or sustained effort. |
| 21:27.12 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 21:27.18 | SpeedEvil | You should _NOT_ be ever able to get a patent because you have average skill, and had 15 min to solve a problem, and happen to be the first to file it. |
| 21:27.19 | asj_ | SpeedEvil: I think the original intent is valid, publish the knowledge so others can use it |
| 21:27.34 | SpeedEvil | Because that utterly stifles creativity. |
| 21:29.18 | *** join/#maemo conne (~conrad@brln-4db81b70.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 21:29.27 | solrize | well that gets off subject of phones :) |
| 21:29.49 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 21:29.54 | *** join/#maemo mavhc (~mavhc@cpc4-basf8-2-0-cust689.know.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 21:30.42 | asj_ | solrize: ya figure phones are patent free and hasn't stifiled inovation? :) |
| 21:31.22 | mece_ | lcuk, good tweet. I LOL'd |
| 21:31.25 | mece_ | http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l47zijIl5k1qzit26o1_500.jpg |
| 21:31.57 | asj_ | mece_: awesome |
| 21:32.01 | asj_ | goes surfing |
| 21:32.18 | mece_ | asj_, credit goes to lcuk. |
| 21:32.30 | lcuk | not at all |
| 21:32.34 | lcuk | i just spotted it on irc lol |
| 21:32.42 | lcuk | <luckz> http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l47zijIl5k1qzit26o1_500.jpg <- ONTOPIC! |
| 21:32.45 | lcuk | and thats not me :p |
| 21:32.47 | *** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (Smily@BSN-143-114-134.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 21:32.56 | solrize | asj, :) i think as FOSS hackers we're all on about the same page about patents, so filling the channel with vent won't help much |
| 21:33.01 | mece_ | that extra z makes all the difference. |
| 21:33.11 | *** join/#maemo lpotter (~quackquac@CPE-58-173-176-56.wucz1.woo.bigpond.net.au) |
| 21:33.22 | *** join/#maemo mw22 (~chatzilla@cc528723-b.mp1.dr.home.nl) |
| 21:33.45 | asj_ | solrize: not sure, I have 2 ;) |
| 21:34.56 | DocScrutinizer | mece_: you looked into the acces-to-/ thing of libhildonfm2 ? |
| 21:35.38 | SpeedEvil | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=faggots+%27burn+them%27++guard+soft&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= |
| 21:35.41 | SpeedEvil | argh |
| 21:36.32 | DocScrutinizer | faggots + burn_them ?? |
| 21:37.57 | SpeedEvil | I was looking for a quote from 'Good Omens' |
| 21:38.02 | jacekowski | what's a cheapest way to have internet in a phone if i'm going to usa for couple days? |
| 21:38.29 | *** join/#maemo avs (~avs@a88-113-5-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 21:38.32 | SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Omens |
| 21:38.45 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Load it all onto a microSD before you go. |
| 21:38.49 | jacekowski | sign up for a contract, and don't pay it and don't come back? |
| 21:39.50 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: With the emergence of armed Predators, with remotely targetted missiles, do you really want to do that? |
| 21:39.54 | dotblank | can someone test my n900 app? |
| 21:40.16 | dotblank | requires pr1.2 |
| 21:40.20 | SpeedEvil | Not at the moment, I have to go to sleep. |
| 21:40.22 | SpeedEvil | What is it? |
| 21:40.27 | dotblank | grooveshark client |
| 21:40.59 | dotblank | trying to debug behaviour in portrait mode |
| 21:41.16 | dotblank | my n900 is doing wierd things |
| 21:41.50 | *** join/#maemo Talus_Laptop (~xpto@bl14-37-22.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 21:41.57 | *** join/#maemo ofauchon (~ofauchon_@217.109.75.181) |
| 21:43.35 | *** join/#maemo mw22_ (~chatzilla@cc528723-b.mp1.dr.home.nl) |
| 21:44.25 | dotblank | When a dialog window pops up it changes screen orientation out of portrait until the sensor resets and finds that its in portrait and sets it back |
| 21:44.40 | dotblank | seems almost random when this occurs |
| 21:45.00 | flailingmonkey | interesting |
| 21:45.26 | *** join/#maemo pbati (~fozpaulo@201.41.166.207) |
| 21:46.38 | flailingmonkey | lcuk, the display of posts should be decorated to indicate their current vote-status, and make it possible for extremely low voted posts to be dimmed or hidden |
| 21:46.55 | mece_ | dotblank, that's one of the reasons I have the possibility for manual rotation in qlister. It's really autorotate can be frustrating sometimes. |
| 21:47.33 | *** part/#maemo pbati (~fozpaulo@201.41.166.207) |
| 21:49.51 | mece_ | I think I'm gonna head out. |
| 21:51.50 | mece_ | please test and vote qlister if you've got the time. I really want to rid the world of that stupid dependency bug that the version in extras have. |
| 21:52.13 | mece_ | here's the link http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/qlister/0.2-6/ |
| 21:52.19 | mece_ | bye. |
| 21:53.01 | *** join/#maemo jonne (~jonne@91.182.77.65) |
| 21:55.44 | dotblank | If anyone wants to help me test my grooveshark app let me know |
| 21:59.22 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shamus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 22:02.38 | pupnik | http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk167/smileykarlsruhe/DSC08345.jpg?t=1276703345 nice 5 row keyboard on the HTC dream |
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| 22:08.50 | noctule | evening all |
| 22:09.03 | pupnik | moo |
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| 22:14.29 | flailingmonkey | ahoy |
| 22:15.31 | crashanddie | GAN900: what was the insult for, earlier? |
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| 22:16.30 | SpeedEvil | Is there a trival way to set a LED pattern under shell? |
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| 22:26.32 | DocScrutinizer | ~lart HILDON_FILE_SYSTEM_MODEL_* |
| 22:26.32 | infobot | urinates on HILDON_FILE_SYSTEM_MODEL_* |
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| 22:27.49 | GAN900 | crashanddie, by way of greeting. :P |
| 22:27.57 | opdf2 | Anyone try the Backflip keyboard? |
| 22:28.22 | crashanddie | GAN900: interesting |
| 22:28.34 | pupnik | http://www.chinaewindow.com/180-degree-rotating-qwerty-keyboard-tv-mobile-phoneblack-p-373.html cute rotating cellphone design |
| 22:29.51 | pupnik | http://www.chinaewindow.com/white-mid-7-inch-touch-screen-apad-tablet-pc-google-android-wifi-p-1017.html chinese android MID tablet $101 |
| 22:30.20 | benno2 | DocScrutinizer, reading through the pulseaudio (client) API docs. again don't know if I should cry of laugh :) |
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| 22:30.59 | SpeedEvil | dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_led_pattern_deactivate string:PatternExample |
| 22:31.04 | SpeedEvil | (above question) |
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| 22:31.14 | flailingmonkey | benno2: have you tried using pulseaudio on top of jackd on the n900? |
| 22:31.27 | DocScrutinizer | benno2: hmm yes |
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| 22:32.17 | fcorrea | after running af-sb-init.sh start "something" is supposed to show up on Xephyr isn't? It doesn't show nothing to me and still says it the gui is up and running which I can verify by running run-standalone.sh maemopad. Any clues? |
| 22:32.22 | GAN900 | crashanddie, yeah, yeah. |
| 22:32.34 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: yes, that's the suggested way to do, anyway PatternExample won't work usually |
| 22:32.47 | MohammadAGRX-51 | infobot, ping |
| 22:32.48 | infobot | ~pong |
| 22:33.11 | benno2 | flailingmonkey, not yet. I am currently developing an audio app which needs to record data with low delay. next step will be trying pulseaudio directly. and then perhaps gstreamer. tried using ALSA directly specifying only freq=48000, stereo 16bit but the open call fails. |
| 22:33.33 | benno2 | DocScrutinizer, there is a chapter "developing high latency apps" :) |
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| 22:34.28 | SpeedEvil | benno2: stop pulseaudio, then edit /etc/asound.conf to add a real hardware device link. But that's silly |
| 22:34.47 | DocScrutinizer | benno2: ROTFL |
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| 22:36.34 | benno2 | flailingmonkey, it makes no sense to run both PA and JACK. wastes resource and adds makes the audio chain longer and possibly weaker. as said there is only room for one bully in town :) but as said on the ML, if Nokia is really able to make meego run smooth and PA delivers decent low latencies for user space too then I'll shut up and happily use what is available. it's not that I'm in love with jack. just want to get the job done. |
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| 22:38.06 | benno2 | SpeedEvil, I need to deploy the app on standard N900's without breaking anything. so I need to avoid hacks. I've read the PA docs that you can load modules into PA and run them within PA for lower latencies (they mention voip clients) , but I find this silly and who knows if it is supported by the N900. |
| 22:38.46 | benno2 | DocScrutinizer, from the PA docs "For the sake of reducing power consumption and drop-out safety always make sure to pick the highest latency possible that fulfills your needs. Never pick a lower latency than you really need. If you do pick needlessly low latencies you just burn CPU and make it more likely that we will get a drop-out. And worst of all that makes PA and me look bad, since people will blame PA and me for it. And I don't like to look bad! ;-)" |
| 22:39.11 | SpeedEvil | sighs. |
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| 22:39.38 | DocScrutinizer | benno2: sounds reasonable |
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| 22:42.01 | benno2 | DocScrutinizer, yes but above they say that in substance PA does what it wants, you can suggest a latency but it does not guarantee anything and might chose the latency it wants. I can understand the limits of the hw, but it should allow at least a range of reasonable latencies. the nokia PDF says that PA on the N900 changes the hw audio buffersize when not in a call (increased bufsize). but does not say anything specific.I find this bad because even when not |
| 22:42.01 | benno2 | in a call we might need fast audio response. |
| 22:42.53 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, what can I say |
| 22:44.05 | benno2 | it's a bad design to place artificial restrictions when all the above (low power consumption and fast audio response) can be accomplished by well designed apps that follow the programming guidelines. |
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| 22:45.13 | nomis | benno2: so far you have failed to establish, that the current infrastructure does not satisfy your latency needs. So the discussion is moot. |
| 22:46.06 | Corsac | and you talk too much |
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| 22:51.19 | luke-jr | benno2: it makes no sense to run *either* PA *or* JACK |
| 22:51.24 | luke-jr | ALSA works fine by itself |
| 22:53.13 | pupnik | perhaps you're not aware of all the features people expect from a phone and what demands those place on the audio subsystem |
| 22:53.25 | pupnik | or perhaps you are |
| 22:54.07 | benno2 | nomis, yes I cannot give my final verdict about it. so more research is needed. And yes I make lots of noise but it's for a good cause. It might be disturbing for some but OTOH the outcome can be helpful to others which want to achieve the same goals.so far it seems that one cannot easily find a cookbook recipe to solve my problem. I'll try to reduce the noise I make to a minimum until I made progress or exhausted all audio APIs maemo provides. |
| 22:54.37 | luke-jr | pupnik: hardly matters, since Maemo IS NOT A PHONE PLATFORM |
| 22:56.36 | benno2 | luke-jr, in principle I agree with you, the less sw components run the better. if ALSA is enough to perform all the tasks then other stuff is not needed.the question is if it can be done solely with dmix etc.they probably went the PA route because it's easier to mix and route in userspace rather than in the ALSA layer. |
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| 22:59.13 | crashanddie | fuck a doodle do. UFO threads on TMO. |
| 22:59.29 | luke-jr | LOL |
| 22:59.40 | luke-jr | so identify them. then they can't be UFOs |
| 22:59.44 | crashanddie | luke-jr: Maemo is not a phone platform? |
| 23:00.04 | crashanddie | luke-jr: mind sending me your Maemo 5 netbook, and Maemo 5 internet tablet? |
| 23:00.39 | luke-jr | crashanddie: why would I send you my N810? |
| 23:00.51 | crashanddie | Your n810 runs Maemo 5? |
| 23:01.04 | luke-jr | no, thanks to Nokia |
| 23:01.07 | luke-jr | ;) |
| 23:01.28 | crashanddie | luke-jr: can you deactivate the automated contacts when you type on the desktop? And when you type digits without prime focus, does the annoying phone UI pops up every single time? |
| 23:01.37 | crashanddie | Oh yeah, that's right, it's because it's a bloody phone operating system! |
| 23:01.38 | crashanddie | :) |
| 23:01.58 | crashanddie | sorry, being argumentative |
| 23:04.53 | flailingmonkey | it's still just a MID platform with highly intwegrated phone app |
| 23:05.03 | flailingmonkey | s/inwegrated/integrated/ |
| 23:05.40 | flailingmonkey | and it shows in the rough edges of the phone experience (vs. the whole N900 experience) |
| 23:07.04 | pupnik | i think some people expected the n900 to do everything a pda or phone had ever done before and better |
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| 23:07.35 | flailingmonkey | well, thats what they would like |
| 23:08.15 | flailingmonkey | but in order to do that, you need a solid base and thats where most of the work went into |
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| 23:16.59 | crashanddie | laughs at the backtrack guys who tried to hype NeoPwn for N900, and well, now they're falling short, and hard on their faces |
| 23:19.55 | crashanddie | w00t, I got a +5 insightful on slashdot, yay :0 |
| 23:20.14 | satmd | cheater :p |
| 23:21.22 | MohammadAG51a | test |
| 23:21.49 | crashanddie | MohammadAG51: test succeeded |
| 23:22.11 | DocScrutinizer | sighs |
| 23:22.12 | MohammadAG51 | Houston we have lift off! |
| 23:22.34 | DocScrutinizer | congrats for successfully connecting to ZNC :-P |
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