| 00:05.35 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@rrcs-24-39-133-205.nyc.biz.rr.com) |
| 00:05.50 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: 5h active? |
| 00:05.55 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 00:06.58 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: hmm, not good, but not bad as well? |
| 00:07.14 | SpeedEvil | I read later the 'only 3h 3g' |
| 00:08.09 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, backlight at 100% brightness and on/off ratio, and 3h of 3G - that sums up |
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| 00:17.21 | DocScrutinizer | wonders idly about the backlight-brightness adjusting daemon |
| 00:17.40 | DocScrutinizer | iirc it's also closed source |
| 00:17.56 | jacekowski | some things should just exist as small kernel modules |
| 00:18.09 | DocScrutinizer | which honestly is rather hilarious |
| 00:18.58 | jacekowski | imo, somebody should start a project to rewrite all parts like that as open source |
| 00:19.19 | jacekowski | so there would be fully functional open source replacement |
| 00:19.20 | DocScrutinizer | err, that's called meego |
| 00:19.31 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, qwerty12 wrote the toolbar changer |
| 00:19.41 | jacekowski | not whole os replacement |
| 00:19.47 | DocScrutinizer | nevertheless we are planning to kill closed bme eventually |
| 00:19.59 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: yes, I remember |
| 00:20.10 | jacekowski | i'm happy to help with that |
| 00:20.18 | DocScrutinizer | and I also remember it fights with the closed shit, and often loses |
| 00:20.44 | DocScrutinizer | at least on N810 it's absolutely obvious |
| 00:21.02 | ShadowJK | it's the ambient brightness + optional dynamic contrast into brightness setting that's closed really :) |
| 00:21.07 | SpeedEvil | I have the backlight thingy installed |
| 00:21.27 | SpeedEvil | plus I have a queen beecon (silly name but great applet) that echos 2 > relevant sysnode |
| 00:21.32 | SpeedEvil | 2 is the dimmest it will go |
| 00:21.42 | ShadowJK | Apparently there's a team in a controlled darklab doing that |
| 00:21.42 | SpeedEvil | ~70mA vs ~100mA |
| 00:22.14 | ShadowJK | but it's not so nice in real life when sensor can't tell direct and ambient light apart |
| 00:22.16 | DocScrutinizer | setting the system brightness to 100% and the toolbar app brightness to 20%, the real brightness jumps to whatever was touched last, but sometimes switches to system 100 level for no obvious reason |
| 00:22.59 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: camera! |
| 00:23.47 | DocScrutinizer | Samsung OMNIA is doing it that way. has no amb lite senor, uses front cam |
| 00:25.54 | DocScrutinizer | honestly, I mean c'mon, there's a set of sysfs nodes to read out the amblight sensor, and there's sysnodes to control the screen backlight. What's the use of a silly closed source daemon sitting in between them? WTF? |
| 00:26.41 | ShadowJK | Well I don't care about ambient light, what matters is if the background is making screen very dim, or if there's light bouncing off the screen making the screen surface bright |
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| 00:27.17 | DocScrutinizer | err, yes? |
| 00:27.22 | ShadowJK | als and cameras can't give useful info to control the screen brightness :) |
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| 00:27.36 | DocScrutinizer | so kill it |
| 00:28.09 | ShadowJK | better than nothing I guess |
| 00:28.51 | DocScrutinizer | no, actually a binary blob interfering with a nice community driven applet is worse than nothing |
| 00:29.19 | tripzero | my n900 pissed me off today. got stuck in portrait mode when i was trying to pull up a contact during a call |
| 00:29.49 | DocScrutinizer | hmmm |
| 00:29.58 | tripzero | i don't know what i did |
| 00:30.05 | DocScrutinizer | "steps to reproduce" ?? |
| 00:30.12 | tripzero | haha, no clue |
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| 00:31.47 | tripzero | tries and fails to reproduce outside of a call |
| 00:33.07 | SimonLR | ShadowJK: camera can give useful info to control the brightness. |
| 00:33.18 | SimonLR | ShadowJK: check lumin values and adjust based on that. |
| 00:33.38 | DocScrutinizer | SimonLR: yes, I agree |
| 00:34.15 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: any idea what that daemon is called? (the one managing the backlight) |
| 00:34.15 | SpeedEvil | Also, it can look at angle of sun, and accel |
| 00:34.28 | ShadowJK | mce probably |
| 00:34.39 | DocScrutinizer | fsck |
| 00:35.00 | DocScrutinizer | ~lart mce and bme |
| 00:35.00 | infobot | whacks mce and bme with a giant beaver's tail |
| 00:35.04 | njsf_ | tripzero: mine annoyed me more at becoming non responsive to touch when I was trying to answer a call |
| 00:35.34 | njsf_ | probably the old hildon-home problem, but impacting call answering not good |
| 00:35.51 | DocScrutinizer | hildon-home problem? |
| 00:36.03 | njsf_ | or hildon-desktop maybe |
| 00:36.16 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 00:36.28 | njsf_ | the home where the n900 becomes unresponsive but if you kill hildon-home it starts responding |
| 00:36.58 | njsf_ | someone in the hildon-home team suggests the problem is some other app doing constant screen updates thus waking hildon-home |
| 00:37.02 | MohammadAG_ | hildon-home are the widgets, -desktop is the window manager |
| 00:37.18 | DocScrutinizer | aaah widgets, yeah |
| 00:37.37 | MohammadAG_ | so blame widgets |
| 00:37.45 | njsf_ | It could have been an interaction between recaller and panucci maybe |
| 00:37.48 | Dima202 | %stats |
| 00:37.58 | njsf_ | since I have pannuci opened even if paused at the time |
| 00:38.16 | DocScrutinizer | recaller sounds suspicious |
| 00:38.41 | MohammadAG_ | don't have any problems and my desktop is full of widgets |
| 00:38.46 | MohammadAG_ | not those two though |
| 00:38.49 | DocScrutinizer | though that would probably cause issues with audio, not with responsiveness |
| 00:38.56 | njsf_ | panucci is an app, not widget |
| 00:38.57 | MohammadAG_ | I found the conversations widget caused a reset |
| 00:39.00 | njsf_ | recaller is a widget |
| 00:39.17 | njsf_ | yes, I removed the conversations widget, it was useless to me |
| 00:39.37 | njsf_ | does not keep track of which messages I had seen on the actual conversations window |
| 00:39.40 | DocScrutinizer | doesn't like widgets very much anyway |
| 00:40.06 | DocScrutinizer | I also doubt the whole widget concept is well thought |
| 00:40.09 | njsf_ | I currently just have the fm transmitter one, the OMWeather, the recaller and calendar one |
| 00:40.47 | njsf_ | although since Ovi Suite removed tethered Outlook calendar sync it is useless to me, so I'll probably remove the calendar one |
| 00:41.11 | DocScrutinizer | aiui all widgets share one process, and just one failing widget can bork the whole thing |
| 00:41.53 | njsf_ | yeahh there should be some limits, like a very high nice setting on hildon-home ;D |
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| 00:42.29 | njsf_ | the problem I guess is that python widgets are in another process.... |
| 00:42.55 | DocScrutinizer | there should be independent processes for each widget, so a runaway widget won't bork the whole desktop |
| 00:43.11 | MohammadAG_ | anyone got any idea how to get the playing song name from terminal? |
| 00:43.21 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 00:43.21 | MohammadAG_ | something involving gst_renderer |
| 00:43.46 | DocScrutinizer | gst_renderer? |
| 00:43.47 | MohammadAG_ | njsf_, killall python :P |
| 00:43.51 | MohammadAG_ | think so |
| 00:44.01 | DocScrutinizer | hmmpf |
| 00:44.10 | DocScrutinizer | dbus foo bar boo |
| 00:44.19 | njsf_ | DocScrutinizer only if with they don't hose stuff by having too many runnable processes |
| 00:44.54 | MohammadAG_ | DocScrutinizer, dbus is highly over my head |
| 00:44.54 | DocScrutinizer | uhuh |
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| 00:45.08 | MohammadAG_ | no idea how qwerty12 gets that stuff |
| 00:45.09 | DocScrutinizer | dbus is easy |
| 00:45.35 | DocScrutinizer | getting the methods and their parameters right is the art/magic |
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| 00:46.19 | MohammadAG_ | com.nokia.mafw.renderer.metadata_changed /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer |
| 00:46.29 | MohammadAG_ | got those, no idea how to use them :) |
| 00:46.46 | DocScrutinizer | that's not dbus' fault though when things like telepathy come with a mindboggling dbus API that nobody is able to understand, and you got no clue where to look for the manpage |
| 00:47.12 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, see above |
| 00:49.28 | DocScrutinizer | if I were maemo distro maintainer, I'd kick every app and the responsible developer down all the way to southpole and back, if they dare to come without a decent manpage that has a description plus example for each and every dbus call implemented in that app |
| 00:50.05 | DocScrutinizer | with *heavy* boots |
| 00:52.12 | njsf_ | DocScrutinizer: I could not agree more. What good are integration interfaces if they are not well designed or worse undocumented? |
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| 00:52.26 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 00:52.29 | DocScrutinizer | >:-(( |
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| 00:54.15 | DocScrutinizer | alas our 'distro maintainers' are the worst of all in that respect |
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| 00:54.45 | tripzero | fear not, meego will fix all |
| 00:54.47 | tripzero | :P |
| 00:54.49 | DocScrutinizer | the Nokia closed source crap doesn't even suppord dbus introspection |
| 00:54.57 | tripzero | ew, that is pretty bad |
| 00:54.57 | DocScrutinizer | how evil is THAT? |
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| 00:55.03 | MuJ | who cares anything about dying "distro?" |
| 00:55.21 | SimonLR | DocScrutinizer: What do you mean by "dbus introspection"? |
| 00:55.58 | tripzero | ie, implementing that org.freedesktop.dbus.interospection method to return xml for your dbus objects |
| 00:55.59 | b-man | hald-addon-bme, bme-rx-51, ect |
| 00:56.44 | SimonLR | Fair enough. |
| 00:58.27 | DocScrutinizer | SimonLR: compare: |
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| 00:58.31 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia-N900-02-8:~# mdbus2 com.nokia.alarmd |
| 00:58.40 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia-N900-02-8:~# mdbus2 org.freedesktop.Notifications |
| 00:59.10 | Dima202 | Dying ? |
| 01:00.33 | Dima202 | We die.. but the code lives on |
| 01:00.54 | MohammadAG_ | <DocScrutinizer> Nokia-N900-02-8:~# mdbus2 com.nokia.alarmd LOL |
| 01:00.57 | MohammadAG_ | / |
| 01:01.22 | MohammadAG_ | it's more sad than funny |
| 01:01.41 | DocScrutinizer | yes, actually it's really sad |
| 01:03.10 | DocScrutinizer | well, maybe I chosen a poor example, but anyway that's what dbus cracks told me: Nokia hasn't implemented introspection in their closed shit |
| 01:03.29 | DocScrutinizer | which is a violation of dbus design rules aiui |
| 01:03.47 | DocScrutinizer | at least it's nasty |
| 01:04.07 | MohammadAG_ | and n00bs like me don't understand it :P |
| 01:04.17 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, same here |
| 01:05.02 | ShadowJK | I wonder what kind of response "lack of introspection" bugs would get |
| 01:05.17 | *** join/#maemo hotdice (~hotdice@pool-173-75-165-122.bltmmd.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:05.26 | DocScrutinizer | I really wonder why Nokia hasn't contracted a gifted wellknown author to write O'Reilly Maemo Unleashed |
| 01:05.44 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: try it |
| 01:05.44 | ham5 | gonna contract you docscrutinizer |
| 01:06.00 | DocScrutinizer | ham5: I'm an abysmal author |
| 01:06.09 | ham5 | :) |
| 01:06.14 | DocScrutinizer | would need a ghostwriter ;-P |
| 01:06.31 | SpeedEvil | I'm a great ghostwriter. |
| 01:06.41 | ham5 | I run debian. |
| 01:06.42 | SpeedEvil | Occasionally bang on the keys in a random manner. |
| 01:06.50 | MohammadAG_ | ShadowJK, I don't think they'll stay on the bugtracker :P |
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| 01:08.03 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG_: it's really hard to delete something from bugtracker |
| 01:08.19 | DocScrutinizer | virtually impossible aiui |
| 01:08.22 | MohammadAG_ | DocScrutinizer, no delete button? |
| 01:08.24 | MohammadAG_ | wow |
| 01:08.37 | DocScrutinizer | check the ticket number sequence |
| 01:08.59 | ham5 | n900 bad ass ? |
| 01:09.04 | DocScrutinizer | probably you won't find voids |
| 01:09.13 | MohammadAG_ | Bug 1 |
| 01:09.14 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1 test - ignore it |
| 01:09.22 | MohammadAG_ | guess so |
| 01:09.59 | DocScrutinizer | you bet they had removed bug #1 if they had a reasonable way to do so |
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| 01:11.25 | DocScrutinizer | you can edit bugs aiui, even to a point where it's an empty meaningless ticket, but you hardly can remove a ticket as soon as it's away from tail |
| 01:11.55 | MohammadAG_ | not with my permissions though :) |
| 01:12.01 | DocScrutinizer | same is true for comments n tickets I've been told |
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| 01:13.17 | DocScrutinizer | probably due to the nature of he DBMS you can't take out a record from in between |
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| 01:17.44 | Macer | wow. chromium has gotten way better than when i last tried it |
| 01:17.46 | *** join/#maemo eggonlea (~lli5@58.246.243.190) |
| 01:17.51 | Macer | is there a chromium pkg for maemo? :) |
| 01:18.05 | Macer | maybe easydeb has one |
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| 01:19.06 | SpeedEvil | ges |
| 01:19.08 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 01:19.18 | SpeedEvil | in extras-devel |
| 01:19.27 | *** join/#maemo Disconnect (~Disconnec@sigkill.net) |
| 01:19.32 | Macer | seriously? |
| 01:19.33 | Macer | heh |
| 01:19.38 | Macer | that was like one of those wishlists |
| 01:19.50 | ham5 | f google |
| 01:19.52 | ham5 | u should be shot |
| 01:19.56 | ham5 | are you kidding |
| 01:20.10 | Macer | huh? |
| 01:20.18 | *** join/#maemo iDialekt (~idialekt@166.205.143.105) |
| 01:20.30 | jacekowski | Macer: it's still work in progress |
| 01:20.40 | Macer | chrome is the best browser i've used so far :) .. better than ie, safari, and ff |
| 01:20.50 | jacekowski | Macer: but i don't have time to do anything with it |
| 01:20.52 | Macer | jacekowski: will be nice to see how it goes |
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| 01:21.31 | jacekowski | sometimes i find hour or two to do something |
| 01:21.59 | MohammadAG|ZzZ | Night #maemo \o |
| 01:22.32 | jacekowski | but it would be helpfull to have chrome dev to help ( or little bit more comments in code ) |
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| 01:23.20 | jacekowski | and there is something i would like to have more |
| 01:23.37 | jacekowski | which is dalvik on n900 and iphone emulation |
| 01:24.00 | jacekowski | but both require lot of work |
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| 01:30.43 | DocScrutinizer | dalvik?? |
| 01:31.36 | SpeedEvil | the android vm |
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| 01:35.05 | b-man | dalvik on the n900 is way more likely to happen than an iphone emulator ;) |
| 01:36.39 | b-man | it's too bad that 'android application compatibility layer" project for ubuntu never took off :( |
| 01:36.56 | tripzero | too bad android sux and doesn't use standards |
| 01:37.05 | ham5 | f google |
| 01:37.06 | ham5 | yea |
| 01:37.07 | ham5 | ! |
| 01:37.13 | tripzero | and also, doesn't care one bit on working with others |
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| 01:38.50 | ham5 | they want that $$ |
| 01:38.52 | tripzero | that's why meego, IMHO, has a better approach than android (upstream first vs. forking upstream) |
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| 01:41.16 | b-man | tripzero: more like upstream vs. completely re-engineering the linux userspace & kernel in a lousy way lol |
| 01:42.20 | tripzero | ie "fork and screw up" |
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| 01:42.32 | tripzero | fork and fsck? |
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| 02:10.10 | DocScrutinizer | hmm fork&fsck sounds good - sold |
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| 02:10.41 | DocScrutinizer | ~ff |
| 02:10.42 | infobot | methinks ff is even in dutch |
| 02:11.32 | DocScrutinizer | ~ff is also fork&fsck |
| 02:11.33 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer |
| 02:12.24 | DocScrutinizer | ~ff is also or Android |
| 02:12.25 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer |
| 02:12.30 | DocScrutinizer | ~ff |
| 02:12.31 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, ff is even in dutch, or fork&fsck, or or Android |
| 02:12.37 | tripzero | lol |
| 02:12.38 | DocScrutinizer | blah |
| 02:13.28 | DocScrutinizer | btw |
| 02:13.32 | DocScrutinizer | ~android |
| 02:13.33 | infobot | methinks android is an Open Handset Alliance Project by Google or an alleged Open Source phone software stack that's really not open. http://code.google.com/android/, or if it's sometime actually freed, someone might port it on the neo, but the provided binaries are incompatible |
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| 02:13.57 | tripzero | nice |
| 02:14.05 | SpeedEvil | Oooh! Out of date even. |
| 02:14.16 | SpeedEvil | (as someone did) |
| 02:14.19 | DocScrutinizer | lol, largely |
| 02:14.29 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 02:15.40 | DocScrutinizer | shrugs |
| 02:16.13 | DocScrutinizer | ~tell #openmoko-cdevel about android |
| 02:16.24 | DocScrutinizer | you bitch!! |
| 02:16.26 | luke-jr | Android is actually non-free? |
| 02:16.29 | *** join/#maemo rodarvus_ (~rodarvus@187.58.226.54) |
| 02:16.34 | Termana | Plus, the Android stack is completely open now |
| 02:16.34 | luke-jr | I mean, beyond mere vendor stuff |
| 02:16.42 | Termana | AFAIK |
| 02:17.20 | Termana | luke-jr, There were a couple of things like the telephony stack and whatnot that were originally closed, but I believe they are open now |
| 02:17.28 | luke-jr | hum |
| 02:17.28 | DocScrutinizer | completely open and completely ff |
| 02:17.47 | DocScrutinizer | exactly what the world needs |
| 02:18.23 | Macer | wow. i don't care too much for google but wow... chromium is awesome heh |
| 02:18.37 | Macer | it is way better than the garbage i used a while back :) |
| 02:18.37 | Termana | DocScrutinizer, ff? |
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| 02:18.41 | tripzero | ~ff |
| 02:18.42 | infobot | i guess ff is even in dutch, or fork&fsck, or or Android |
| 02:18.53 | Termana | ah |
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| 02:20.42 | DocScrutinizer | duh, tripzero you've been faster than me ;-P |
| 02:20.54 | tripzero | slightly ;) |
| 02:22.10 | DocScrutinizer | well let's put it this way, you plus your oingtime via freenode to infobot was faster than mine |
| 02:22.24 | DocScrutinizer | s/oing/ping/ |
| 02:23.25 | DocScrutinizer | on my end of the continuum I've been faster than you |
| 02:25.28 | DocScrutinizer | wonders if that's a good example of Einsteins relativity theory |
| 02:25.57 | tripzero | :P |
| 02:26.20 | DocScrutinizer | the model for train-hating geeks |
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| 02:28.28 | DocScrutinizer | WTF??! my ssh to N900 doesn't accept any input except ^C anymore :-o |
| 02:29.08 | DocScrutinizer | on ^C it spits out a newline with $PS1 |
| 02:30.42 | DocScrutinizer | actually it accepts a blindly entered 'date^J' |
| 02:31.26 | DocScrutinizer | hehe 'stty sane^J' |
| 02:31.55 | arachnist | DocScrutinizer: ^C twice and blindly input "reset" |
| 02:32.18 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (~aloisio@189.115.167.169) |
| 02:32.18 | DocScrutinizer | stty sane did the job |
| 02:32.47 | DocScrutinizer | thanks anyway |
| 02:40.24 | DocScrutinizer | #!/bin/sh \n## file /usr/local/bin/apt-get \nif [ $1 -eq install ]; then \n$@ && echo '$@' >$HOME/installed-aps.sh \nelse \$@ \fi |
| 02:46.57 | *** join/#maemo dfl (~Miranda@nat1.academ.org) |
| 02:47.22 | pgas | -eq is to compare numbers |
| 02:48.18 | luke-jr | [ "$1" == 'install' ] |
| 02:48.20 | luke-jr | ftw |
| 02:48.40 | pgas | == is a bashism |
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| 02:49.44 | Stskeeps | yes it is |
| 02:49.46 | luke-jr | so use bash |
| 02:49.47 | luke-jr | :D |
| 02:51.09 | DocScrutinizer | grmppf |
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| 02:51.55 | pgas | or just use =, but yes quote "$1" "$@" |
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| 03:17.54 | KnightStalker | Hey,I wonder where I could find the option which I could say if the web pages can use my GPS? |
| 03:18.03 | KnightStalker | I am trying to get Google Maps work btw |
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| 03:22.45 | DocScrutinizer | any ideas why... |
| 03:22.49 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia-N900-02-8:~# echo $PATH |
| 03:22.51 | DocScrutinizer | /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11 |
| 03:23.37 | DocScrutinizer | still calls /usr/bin/apt-get, when I enter apt-get as cmd? |
| 03:24.01 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia-N900-02-8:~# which apt-get |
| 03:24.02 | DocScrutinizer | /usr/local/bin/apt-get |
| 03:24.54 | tripzero | odd |
| 03:25.08 | DocScrutinizer | but evidently /usb/local/bin/apt-get calls something different than apt-get does |
| 03:25.14 | tripzero | hash -r |
| 03:25.19 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 03:25.45 | DocScrutinizer | thanks |
| 03:25.59 | DocScrutinizer | I hate busybox |
| 03:26.02 | tripzero | lols |
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| 03:30.53 | KnightStalker | No one? |
| 03:31.29 | DocScrutinizer | well, just 9 lines. but works: http://paste.debian.net/71901/ apt-get_improved |
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| 03:44.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, I have to admit at least this time it's been my fault, as every shell seems to know hash -r. It's just that 'which' is telling lies to me |
| 03:46.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | and even that's not correct according to the merwe specs |
| 03:46.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | anyway bash rehashes automatically |
| 03:50.51 | *** join/#maemo avs (~avs@a88-113-5-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 03:51.16 | Dima202 | I have decided to start excersising, is there anything out there which will enable me to hand my n900 on neck or strap it to a hand? |
| 03:51.25 | Dima202 | hang* |
| 03:51.37 | Dima202 | probably straping to a hand is better idea |
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| 03:54.44 | Dima202 | +bluetooth headphones for a bit more radiation exposure |
| 03:55.25 | asjWrk | DocScrutinizer51: n900 doesn't use bash by default... |
| 03:55.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | orly |
| 03:55.55 | asjWrk | so don't assume it acts like bash :) |
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| 03:57.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | the first line in installed-apps.sh is '/usr/bin/apt-get install bash' though ;-) |
| 03:57.59 | asjWrk | but you have to execute it, it's /bin/bash not /bin/sh |
| 03:58.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | yesyesyes |
| 03:58.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'm well aware of that |
| 03:59.15 | raster | DocScrutinizer51: docz! |
| 03:59.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | moinmoin rater |
| 03:59.35 | Dima202 | Would class 2 sdhc be enough to play video? or better be safe and get class 4? |
| 03:59.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | raster even |
| 04:00.00 | DocScrutinizer51 | hmm |
| 04:00.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | wonders if there's anymore class2 out there |
| 04:00.43 | Dima202 | tons on amazon |
| 04:00.56 | Dima202 | 16gig under $40 |
| 04:01.04 | raster | DocScrutinizer51: wassap? |
| 04:01.14 | raster | wtf is class stuff again |
| 04:01.17 | raster | i once knew |
| 04:01.33 | Dima202 | 2mb/s? |
| 04:01.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | kicking N900 usb hostmode in the arse |
| 04:01.37 | raster | but why they cant just say "read rate: X MB/s , write rate Y MB/s" |
| 04:01.39 | raster | i dont know |
| 04:02.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | nobodz knows |
| 04:02.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | grrr neeed to remap z and y now |
| 04:02.37 | raster | probably because 2mb/s looks so pathetic |
| 04:02.39 | raster | :) |
| 04:03.05 | Dima202 | So I better buy class 4+? |
| 04:03.12 | Dima202 | and not be a cheap bastard |
| 04:03.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | class4 for sure is good enough |
| 04:04.05 | raster | ooh class == m/s minimum xfer |
| 04:04.10 | raster | they dotn say if its read or wreite |
| 04:04.25 | Dima202 | read prob/ |
| 04:04.25 | raster | my guess is write is slower so its going to be your minimum write rates |
| 04:04.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | cool |
| 04:04.41 | raster | in my experience i can pull read rates of 15m/s off any vaguely modern sd card i have floating about |
| 04:04.57 | raster | http://www.sdcard.org/developers/tech/speed_class/ |
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| 04:05.49 | Dima202 | hmm, my n900 internal memory is about 8 - 10 mb/s from what i've seen (write speed) |
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| 04:06.08 | asjWrk | video streams the n900 can decode won't be over 2mb/sec |
| 04:06.30 | asjWrk | plus read is faster than write |
| 04:07.00 | raster | http://www.sdcard.org/developers/tech/sdxc/ |
| 04:07.01 | raster | damn |
| 04:07.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | mine too slow atm - page doesn't load |
| 04:07.05 | raster | i hadnt heard of that yet |
| 04:07.11 | raster | up to 2tb supported |
| 04:07.18 | Dima202 | I see a class 10 16gig microsdhc for $100 but it's just too much |
| 04:07.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep |
| 04:07.24 | raster | wonders who will be able to afford that sucker when it comes out |
| 04:07.32 | asjWrk | Dima202: I have a class 2 16gb |
| 04:07.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | sdxc is funky |
| 04:07.50 | raster | funky chickens |
| 04:07.59 | *** part/#maemo ham5 (~iamone@unaffiliated/ham5) |
| 04:08.04 | *** part/#maemo syamajala (~syamajala@140.232.177.183) |
| 04:08.10 | asjWrk | Dima202: the biggest problem is filling them, 16gb at 2mb/sec is pretty slow |
| 04:08.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | ok that page never loads |
| 04:08.44 | *** part/#maemo jedlhl (~jed@ppp118-208-148-114.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net) |
| 04:09.08 | Dima202 | I was going to use it for dual booting meego and storage (flac, avi, mkvs) as 2x it will be slooow :( |
| 04:09.37 | raster | Dima202: well it all depends what u are willing to live with |
| 04:09.44 | raster | saying "penough to play video" - yes |
| 04:09.46 | raster | class 2 is |
| 04:09.52 | luke-jr | notes at least N8x0 probably can't go beyond Class 4 anyway |
| 04:10.08 | raster | u can play a nice 64kbit video stream no worries |
| 04:10.09 | raster | :) |
| 04:10.31 | asjWrk | 640k is enough for anyone |
| 04:10.33 | Dima202 | uhuh |
| 04:10.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | how fast kis class4: |
| 04:10.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | ? |
| 04:10.53 | raster | 4m/s "transfer rate minimum" |
| 04:11.00 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer51: lrn2google |
| 04:11.03 | raster | doesnt say if read and write rates differ (likely do) |
| 04:11.07 | raster | and its a minimukm guarantee |
| 04:11.17 | raster | nota "it actually mostly works much better than that" |
| 04:11.26 | swc|666 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital |
| 04:11.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | luke-jr: learn to read backscroll |
| 04:11.59 | raster | do class 2 = sm/s, 4 == 4/ms 6 == 6 m/s etc. |
| 04:12.00 | luke-jr | NO U |
| 04:12.05 | raster | "minimum transfer rate" |
| 04:12.37 | swc|666 | needs a class 45 microsd |
| 04:13.12 | |R | wants a class 45 microSDXC 128GB |
| 04:13.47 | luke-jr | steals it from |R |
| 04:14.13 | *** join/#maemo shamus (~shamus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 04:14.20 | swc|666 | would settle for a 512mb nand in his n900 |
| 04:15.16 | luke-jr | mostly pretends his handhelds don't have NAND |
| 04:15.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | NAND is rubbish |
| 04:15.28 | raster | nand should die for all but bootloaders |
| 04:15.36 | raster | (ie bios) |
| 04:15.59 | KnightStalker | Where could I tell the browser that requesting GPS position from websites are allowed? |
| 04:16.30 | Dima202 | I have made a decision i'll be getting a $20 8gb class 6 microsdhc :) seems best value atm |
| 04:16.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | KnightStalker: nowhere? |
| 04:16.40 | KnightStalker | o.O |
| 04:16.40 | *** join/#maemo Anss| (~user@131.207.207.66) |
| 04:16.47 | asjWrk | KnightStalker: I beleive there's a plugin that would help you there |
| 04:16.54 | raster | Dima202: rule of thumb generally is "3rd from the top" is best value |
| 04:16.57 | KnightStalker | How to install it =) |
| 04:17.01 | raster | generally |
| 04:17.24 | asjWrk | KnightStalker: like any other browser plugin |
| 04:17.48 | Dima202 | raster, took me about 20 minutes to figure it out :p |
| 04:17.50 | KnightStalker | well firefox should say "Missing plugin" but it doesn't :\ |
| 04:18.17 | asjWrk | KnightStalker: next time there's an ad on a page should it popup "Missing ABP" ? |
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| 04:18.45 | KnightStalker | there is no ad :\ |
| 04:19.01 | asjWrk | bangs his head on a concrete wall |
| 04:19.01 | luke-jr | too bad there's no popular removable NAND/NOR cards |
| 04:19.14 | luke-jr | to avoid dealing with all this block emulation crap |
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| 04:21.18 | microlith | well |
| 04:21.21 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@83.149.9.42) |
| 04:21.27 | asjWrk | KnightStalker: anyways, look in at App Manager, there are browser plugins in there |
| 04:21.30 | microlith | no point in not doing block emulation with NAND, since you have to access it like that anyway |
| 04:21.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | /mode +m #maemo |
| 04:21.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | night |
| 04:21.50 | KnightStalker | oh right =) |
| 04:22.05 | *** join/#maemo hurbu_ (~hurbanza@88-149-237-132.dynamic.ngi.it) |
| 04:22.06 | ShadowJK | microlith, yeah but the block emulation pretends it's 512 byte blocks when it's more like 256kbyte |
| 04:22.13 | microlith | ah, true |
| 04:22.17 | KnightStalker | but it would be great if I had the name of the plugin <3 |
| 04:22.21 | microlith | and even with the move to 4k sectors it's still short |
| 04:22.27 | ShadowJK | yes |
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| 04:22.59 | luke-jr | microlith: you don't. |
| 04:23.11 | microlith | rather, isn't the 256K block the eraseblock size, with read/write being smaller normally? |
| 04:23.18 | *** join/#maemo IRCMonkey (~tonikitoo@201-75-0-67-ma.cpe.vivax.com.br) |
| 04:23.21 | microlith | hasn't worked with NAND much |
| 04:23.45 | ShadowJK | microlith, in practice sequential writes are fast and random access slow |
| 04:23.47 | microlith | maybe I will more when micron finishes off buying us :D |
| 04:24.12 | luke-jr | UBI > unknown SD emulation anyhow |
| 04:24.24 | ShadowJK | if you write 4K and go off reading something somewhere else, the card then reads in 256k, modifies 4k, erases a new block, writes 256k, all before serving your read.. |
| 04:25.00 | microlith | yeah |
| 04:25.36 | ShadowJK | So that works out to roughly "never do random writes" |
| 04:25.38 | ShadowJK | Which makes all normal filesystems crap :) |
| 04:25.45 | microlith | at least, not when you're stuck with a single chip |
| 04:26.18 | raster | thus the existence of thgnis like btrfs, nilfs2 |
| 04:26.20 | ShadowJK | it's not like multichannel helps with anything except sequential speeds anyway :) |
| 04:26.28 | ShadowJK | btrfs did not do very well in my test :) |
| 04:26.42 | microlith | even on more recent SSDs? |
| 04:26.58 | raster | in theory it should be able to account for "the behavior of block emulation" as part of the fs structure |
| 04:27.03 | raster | at least thats its intent |
| 04:27.12 | raster | maybe not as good as it could be |
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| 04:28.06 | ShadowJK | When did the conversation change to SSDs? SSDs have beefy ARM processors and >=64M of RAM to run a LogFS-like filesystem on the nand chips :) |
| 04:28.14 | microlith | ah |
| 04:28.29 | ShadowJK | Except maybe the jmicron based ones, they just suck mostly |
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| 04:29.43 | raster | btrfs was intende for "thumbdrives" last i checked |
| 04:29.56 | raster | and linfs2 last i checked was log-fs based |
| 04:30.09 | raster | as that allowed also for fs versioning and snapshots, rollback etc. |
| 04:30.19 | ShadowJK | in my test consisting of timed copy of squid's cachespool to SD card, nilfs2 was fastest, and ext4 was only twice as slow. btrfs 3 times as slow as nilfs2. |
| 04:30.25 | raster | so it at least fits in with sd-card logic |
| 04:30.41 | raster | aaah u tried nilfs2 |
| 04:30.51 | raster | nilfs2 has been on my list of fs's to watch |
| 04:30.55 | raster | never gotten to playing with it tho |
| 04:31.02 | raster | in concept it seems about right |
| 04:31.10 | raster | and the idea of being able to version the fs sounds good to me |
| 04:31.18 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (~jr@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 04:31.21 | raster | if i was making a complet eproduction os + product |
| 04:31.25 | ShadowJK | nilfs2: 16 minutes, ext4: 29 minutes, btrfs: 46 minutes, ext2: 110 minutes |
| 04:31.30 | raster | i'd have a minimal rescue os and boot loader in nand |
| 04:31.58 | ShadowJK | Same chunk of data being copied to same thumbdrive |
| 04:31.59 | raster | (minimal rescue os can connect to a network in one of many ways and download a fresh install onto mmc/sd if all poo hits the fan) |
| 04:32.13 | raster | and the entire rest of the os on mmc (be it emmc or removable) |
| 04:32.23 | raster | and nilfs2 would be high on my list of choices |
| 04:32.37 | raster | as - for doing thigns like upgrades, you can literally tag your fs before a package upgrade |
| 04:32.41 | ShadowJK | nilfs2 has other less desireable behaviour though, like the garbage collector constantly writing tons of data :) |
| 04:32.46 | raster | and ifr poo happens - roll back to the prior version |
| 04:32.53 | raster | the rescue fs shoudl also be able to do this too |
| 04:32.55 | *** join/#maemo Docscrutemp (~Joerg_rw@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 04:33.06 | raster | and always maintain up to N snaps in the past just in case |
| 04:33.30 | raster | hmm |
| 04:33.36 | raster | well i guess nilfs2 needs tuning |
| 04:33.37 | raster | :) |
| 04:34.15 | ShadowJK | Well, it has only written 642 gigabytes onto my 8 gigabyte thumbdrive since March 10th, when I moved the 3 gigabyte squid cachespool onto it, which sees maybe 50 megabytes max of real writes per day ;) |
| 04:34.27 | *** join/#maemo ClaesBas (~ClaesBas@stock-zit3.8.cust.blixtvik.net) |
| 04:34.50 | raster | i wonder why |
| 04:35.07 | raster | probably the "eraseblock size" thjing |
| 04:35.11 | raster | ie write 2 bytes to the log |
| 04:35.16 | raster | end up having to write 256k |
| 04:35.19 | ShadowJK | No it's unaware of eraseblocks |
| 04:35.22 | raster | and repeat way too often |
| 04:35.40 | raster | then why so much? |
| 04:35.46 | ShadowJK | beats me :) |
| 04:35.49 | raster | hehehe |
| 04:36.07 | ShadowJK | The author basically agrees that it's not "optimized" for use on storage that has wear&tear constraints :) |
| 04:36.22 | raster | well lets see |
| 04:36.29 | raster | u likely have 100k write cycles |
| 04:36.32 | raster | if not more |
| 04:36.49 | raster | lets say thats 1 month |
| 04:36.53 | raster | (roughly) |
| 04:37.04 | raster | u have 1250 months of writing available for your thumbdrive |
| 04:37.13 | raster | you just used up 1 |
| 04:37.26 | raster | so still over 100years left :) |
| 04:37.46 | ShadowJK | Yeah so given that this thing has a max write speed of about 6 megabytes per second, it'd still take ages to wear it out |
| 04:37.55 | ShadowJK | I don't see why people worry about wear ;) |
| 04:38.00 | raster | (for now i dumbly assume the log rolls thru the device and so will spread itself out :)) |
| 04:38.09 | raster | same |
| 04:38.18 | raster | when u had lkike 1k or 10k cycles |
| 04:38.20 | raster | it mattered |
| 04:38.26 | raster | these days 100k+ is the norm |
| 04:38.40 | raster | an d given the massive space to spread the writes out over now... it's getting moot |
| 04:38.44 | ShadowJK | I'm hoping LogFS will be ready soon :) |
| 04:38.57 | raster | lets see what happens |
| 04:49.48 | RST38h | yawns at the world |
| 04:50.41 | DocScrutinizer | (I don't see why people worry about wear) hehehe - tell that to our OC-antimater guy |
| 04:51.15 | DocScrutinizer | yawns on his own |
| 04:51.25 | raster | oc-antimater? |
| 04:51.29 | Dima202 | farts |
| 04:51.33 | raster | burrps |
| 04:52.37 | DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-04-28.log.html#t2010-04-28T04:28:05 |
| 04:53.52 | RST38h | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=51728 is hilarious |
| 04:54.11 | RST38h | Anyone willing to guess posters' distribution by the country of origin? =) |
| 04:56.40 | Dima202 | Interesting, can I make a recording play through the phone? I made a rec. of a conversation I wanted to play to another caller |
| 04:57.52 | DocScrutinizer | well, if recaller can record a call, then I'd guess the inverse is possible as well |
| 04:59.24 | Dima202 | I'm guessing I would ahve to write the code myself |
| 04:59.33 | Dima202 | If I want the option |
| 04:59.53 | RST38h | there would be a problem |
| 05:00.00 | DocScrutinizer51 | hmm probably |
| 05:00.07 | RST38h | all pa clients get priorities |
| 05:00.13 | RST38h | the phone gets the higher priority |
| 05:00.28 | RST38h | whoever else will try playing audio while the phone is running, will hang |
| 05:00.53 | RST38h | and you won't be able to quit your app either, not until phone app is done using pa |
| 05:01.09 | RST38h | (the latter behaviour is a bug, there is a tracker for it) |
| 05:01.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | freggles |
| 05:02.01 | Dima202 | well mplayer plays the file but no sound |
| 05:02.14 | RST38h | correct |
| 05:02.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | once more appreciates the strictlz analog design of GTA02 gsm audiopath |
| 05:04.04 | *** join/#maemo Terje_ (~Terje@esprx02x.nokia.com) |
| 05:04.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | ah and before I forget |
| 05:04.38 | *** join/#maemo chmac (~chmac@london.chmac.com) |
| 05:04.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~nuke pulseaudio |
| 05:04.40 | infobot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at pulseaudio ... Bâ¢â¢M! |
| 05:04.53 | RST38h | http://gizmodo.com/5530298/swineattack-an-iphone-game-for-pig+hating-bacon-lovers <=== pass this url to lcuk =) |
| 05:05.35 | RST38h | just yesterday got an email from some guy who complained about audio not playing in VGBA on desktop Ubuntu |
| 05:05.51 | *** join/#maemo njsf_ (~n@sxemacs/devel/njsf) |
| 05:05.53 | RST38h | Apparently, no /dev/dsp*. Poor sucker =) |
| 05:06.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | RST38h: how's call-mute implemented? |
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| 05:07.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | would the pa clients be stopped so my app could take over? |
| 05:08.38 | RST38h | Doc: I doubt it |
| 05:08.48 | RST38h | But you can try |
| 05:09.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | not right now |
| 05:09.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | but basically yes |
| 05:09.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | know how to do that |
| 05:10.07 | RST38h | either use an sdl game, or any of my emulators |
| 05:10.23 | RST38h | call yourself, while the game is running, see what happens to the game audio |
| 05:11.03 | RST38h | actually, my stuff will not do for this test: I shut down sound and pause on the focus-out events |
| 05:11.03 | Termana | Did anyone see that earthquake? |
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| 05:11.03 | Termana | I think it just made a split |
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| 05:11.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | is there anz decent doc about the general audio-config/concept/howto? |
| 05:11.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | huh? |
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| 05:12.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | earthquake?? |
| 05:13.09 | DocScrutinizer51 | thys ys ypsylyn!!! grrr and zis iz zet |
| 05:13.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~trout DocScrutinizer |
| 05:13.24 | infobot | ACTION slaps DocScrutinizer around a bit with a large trout! |
| 05:13.37 | njsf_ | DocScrutinizer51: seems like your keyboard is shaking a lot |
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| 05:14.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | not used to my new qwerty |
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| 05:15.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | is a wertzu Fritz |
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| 05:18.00 | Termana | I see my sticky tape helped the situation |
| 05:19.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'm really tempted to try and nuke the whole cpu-eating PA shit, and set up a sane ALSA only audio config |
| 05:21.07 | RST38h | ALSA does not work properly |
| 05:21.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | aah |
| 05:21.20 | RST38h | There is just enough ALSA to make PA work |
| 05:21.26 | RST38h | Ask pupnik for details |
| 05:21.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | seems to me PA doesn't work properly |
| 05:21.45 | RST38h | well it works, more or less |
| 05:22.06 | RST38h | it's a pig on resources and has a few nasty bugs but it works |
| 05:22.41 | njsf_ | I have never seen PA not using unreasonable amount of cpu after a while. to me it seems PA in a embedded/mobile setting is a poor decision, unless massive profiling/improvement effort is put to it... |
| 05:22.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | sow how for god's sake could alsa perform anz worse? |
| 05:23.06 | RST38h | ALSA just does not work on Fremantle |
| 05:23.15 | RST38h | Try using it and you will know |
| 05:23.26 | njsf_ | DocScrutinizer51: my guess is that having mixed streams are just painfull in ALSA |
| 05:23.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | ok, so that's a fremantle problem |
| 05:23.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | no thez're simple, easy, and just work |
| 05:23.58 | RST38h | And yes, I would really love if the Tentacled One just ate up all the well-wishing motherfuckers inventing their own audio frameworks |
| 05:24.03 | njsf_ | the comment i have for that is: mixed streams tend to stutter on the n900 anyway, so PA is bringing no benefit |
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| 05:25.08 | RST38h | Starting with the PA guy, then the ALSA people, the ARTS guy, Raster (sorry, Raster), all the way down, until the only thing remaining is the /dev/dsp | /dev/audio | /dev/pcm API |
| 05:25.57 | raster | RST38h: esd wasnt an audio framework |
| 05:26.04 | raster | it was an access layer |
| 05:26.12 | RST38h | raster: As far as I am concerned, it is the same shit =( |
| 05:26.13 | raster | /dev/dsp simply didnt work properly |
| 05:26.14 | njsf_ | I think I should go deaf,... that would be better for me. no need for the n900 to be a phone at all :) hmmm I guess I would just need it to have TTY interface... oh wait it does not :( |
| 05:26.16 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:26.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | PA is based on a concept of freewheeling clocks that eat cpu like mad even when there's no more audio at all. ALSA is based on a clocked master slave chain |
| 05:26.26 | RST38h | raster: But I have to give you a credit here: at least ESD worked |
| 05:26.37 | raster | u had no mixing unless the hw directly did it AND driver supported multiple dsp opens |
| 05:26.42 | raster | that was at that time for 1 card only |
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| 05:26.49 | raster | and no other audio daemons existed other than nas |
| 05:26.50 | RST38h | raster: correct, and that is how dsp works |
| 05:26.57 | raster | and nas had zero adoption |
| 05:27.02 | raster | yup |
| 05:27.15 | raster | so useless if u want to play your music and get "beep - you have new mail" |
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| 05:27.31 | RST38h | raster: so, the logical solution would be to somehow allow multiple dsp opens in the kernel and implement mixing |
| 05:27.35 | raster | esd should have of course gotten more development |
| 05:27.52 | raster | like handling the case where hw did mixing and simply direct streams direct to /dev/dsp with no software mixing |
| 05:27.59 | raster | probably a better quality audiomixer |
| 05:28.02 | RST38h | raster: instead, people all went in different directions and implemented their own "frameworks" =( |
| 05:28.05 | raster | and some way to actually know real latency |
| 05:28.16 | RST38h | raster: you are describing ALSA |
| 05:28.21 | raster | yes |
| 05:28.24 | RST38h | raster: And ALSA is a freaking mess. |
| 05:28.28 | raster | alsa cam along much later |
| 05:28.38 | raster | i started esd in mid 97 |
| 05:28.59 | RST38h | ARTS has been there already |
| 05:29.04 | raster | i was pissed off that i couldnt play my music and get other audio |
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| 05:30.44 | raster | i didnt hear of arts till much later |
| 05:30.52 | njsf_ | raster: you rasterman from Enlightment fame ? :O |
| 05:30.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | fsckng arts never worked for me |
| 05:31.23 | RST38h | Doc: None of these frameworks ever worked for me, so no wonder |
| 05:31.35 | raster | 1998 actually |
| 05:31.49 | RST38h | Doc: Raster's ESD kinda worked on N8x0, although it was missing documentation |
| 05:31.52 | raster | thats what the arts page seems to say - june 1998 |
| 05:31.58 | raster | http://www.arts-project.org/gen/newsarchive/news_1998.html |
| 05:32.06 | DocScrutinizer51 | and since all the herd of idiot sheeps went PA on all the distros, it broke mz desktop audio completely |
| 05:32.12 | RST38h | ah the site is still around??? |
| 05:32.14 | raster | RST38h: esd always worked for me |
| 05:32.15 | raster | :) |
| 05:32.25 | RST38h | raster: Yes, I have guessed that =) |
| 05:32.31 | raster | esd was simple tho |
| 05:32.45 | raster | it was a dead-simple socket that could with some ldpreload magic pretend to be a basic /dev/dsp |
| 05:32.55 | raster | all esd did was mix and play mixed output |
| 05:33.05 | raster | offer mixed output as another stream u can get via a socket |
| 05:33.19 | raster | it shoudl have always worked as long as /dev/dsp worked |
| 05:33.30 | raster | if app was written to use esd - no reason it shouldnt work |
| 05:33.52 | Dima202 | good night |
| 05:33.56 | raster | but it wasnt very expansive in features |
| 05:34.00 | raster | njsf_: maybe |
| 05:34.02 | raster | :) |
| 05:34.10 | raster | anyway |
| 05:34.13 | RST38h | "However, it turned out that some people don't want a sound server at all" -- ARTS author |
| 05:34.24 | raster | esd pre-dated all known "audio frameworks" on linux |
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| 05:34.45 | raster | you can blame everyone else for simply wanting to re-invent the wheel as opposed to adding whatever it is they needed to esd |
| 05:34.46 | raster | :) |
| 05:34.48 | RST38h | raster: Except for OSS :) |
| 05:34.55 | raster | oss is a driver |
| 05:35.00 | RST38h | raster: Ok, accepted |
| 05:35.14 | RST38h | blames PA guy for not reusing ESD |
| 05:35.18 | raster | it has no logic beyond at the most basic level exposing some sound card controls |
| 05:35.21 | raster | alsa is much better |
| 05:35.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | alsa also is a driver |
| 05:35.30 | njsf_ | for the record esd is simple enough to be useful and sane |
| 05:35.38 | RST38h | raster: Except that ALSA never really works in its entirety |
| 05:35.41 | njsf_ | I always used it when possible |
| 05:35.43 | raster | DocScrutinizer51: alsa includes things like dmix - u are exiting driver realms there |
| 05:35.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | yes |
| 05:35.58 | RST38h | raster: The API is so freaking large and so specific to particular PC audio hardware... |
| 05:36.03 | njsf_ | I prefer to do esdsp on old OSS needing apps |
| 05:36.09 | raster | what esd needed is simply adding more features for the things it didnt do |
| 05:36.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | and dmix just works |
| 05:36.20 | raster | like mixer controls - esd never prtended to worry about the audio mixer |
| 05:36.26 | raster | as i said |
| 05:36.29 | raster | latency querie |
| 05:36.32 | raster | sbetter soft-mix code |
| 05:36.55 | RST38h | Let us petition Nokia to switch back to ESD =) |
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| 05:37.06 | raster | njsf_: i designed esd to be the way it was for easy of adoption for oss apps |
| 05:37.12 | raster | as thats all that existed at the time |
| 05:37.24 | pupnik | mornin raster et al |
| 05:37.36 | raster | the common oss /dev/dsp use case was open /dev/dsp - do some ioctls to set samplerate/format - then just write data until done |
| 05:37.40 | raster | so esd worked that way |
| 05:37.43 | RST38h | Doc: Here is pupnik, he should know all about ALSA on Maemo5 |
| 05:37.49 | RST38h | ehlo pupnik |
| 05:37.52 | raster | (excetp the ioctls were steram header inf before streaming your audio) |
| 05:37.56 | raster | pupnik: hey hey :) |
| 05:38.05 | raster | anyway |
| 05:38.09 | raster | esd is old by now |
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| 05:38.18 | flux | raster, hm, does esd also predate nas? |
| 05:38.24 | raster | and as such - alsa does everything i wanted for esd to do |
| 05:38.27 | raster | so its kind of moot |
| 05:38.38 | ljp | or mute :) |
| 05:38.42 | raster | flux: no. nas pre-dates esd. but nas came with the issue that it was hard to port to |
| 05:38.50 | raster | i looked at it |
| 05:39.04 | raster | and went "bah - no one is going ot use that api considering their current oss code" |
| 05:39.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | nas is overkill for all I know |
| 05:39.19 | raster | nas also had no foothold in the linux world |
| 05:39.27 | raster | it didnt ship with slackware or redhat at the time |
| 05:39.55 | raster | for a while i was pondering if audio should maybe become an extension to x |
| 05:39.59 | njsf_ | NAS was always clunky. only useful thingy was to make other students NCD X-terms play weird sounds as prank (since they started unprotected) :D |
| 05:40.00 | raster | since your diusplay went via x |
| 05:40.08 | raster | why now sound too? it makes sense |
| 05:40.09 | njsf_ | this is ofcourse circa 93 :) |
| 05:40.19 | raster | yeah |
| 05:40.33 | RST38h | Hmmm...Eldar continues to advertise Samsung any way he can |
| 05:40.38 | raster | nnas was over-engineered at least for the simple thign i wanted |
| 05:40.58 | raster | "i want to play my mp3.. and hear my other audio sounds if i want to - regardless what /dev/dsp wants to do" |
| 05:41.20 | RST38h | Not sure what he meant by showing a mediocre macro photo made with a Samsung and claiming that "the megapixel race is over" though |
| 05:41.59 | pupnik | i prefer non-eldar topics in the morning |
| 05:42.02 | njsf_ | raster: besides the _network_ bindings which kinda make the pranks possible, first thing to do was always to wrap it in tcpwrappers and deny anything but 127.0.0,1 :D |
| 05:42.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | and PA was designed as a low latency framework for hard realtime apps aiui |
| 05:42.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | latencies <50ms |
| 05:42.40 | raster | hehehe |
| 05:42.58 | raster | yeah |
| 05:43.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | which nobody cares even for phonecalls and shit like that |
| 05:43.06 | raster | but man that was long ago |
| 05:43.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | but that's basically why PA sucks |
| 05:44.05 | flux | docscrutinizer51, nobody cares about it even for games? |
| 05:44.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | sucks CPU, sucks reliability... |
| 05:44.25 | RST38h | pupnik: ah come one, we all like a little eldar in our life |
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| 05:44.27 | raster | pa's big issue is partly its floatingpoint mixer |
| 05:44.28 | DocScrutinizer51 | 50ms??? nah |
| 05:44.33 | flux | in any case, I found that the function to estimate current audio latency is great |
| 05:44.33 | raster | tthat doesnt help in the slightest |
| 05:44.46 | pupnik | so much time to make up every way you turn... time we have wasted on the way... |
| 05:45.08 | raster | one reason u dont see pa and the likes used for audio is if u look at the audio infra for games and the likes |
| 05:45.11 | raster | they use ring buffers |
| 05:45.21 | raster | and rely on dma to suck out audio from the buffer in a loop |
| 05:45.30 | RST38h | correct |
| 05:45.32 | raster | as opposed to writing it as u go |
| 05:45.36 | RST38h | and there is pa_simple for that |
| 05:45.51 | raster | so any game writer will go to the audio api that provides that kind of feature with the least hassle |
| 05:45.58 | raster | (and latency etc.) |
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| 05:46.10 | RST38h | So, PA will stay for another year or two, then get replaced with another "better" audio framework |
| 05:46.19 | RST38h | So cicrcle of suffering never breaks |
| 05:46.28 | flux | pa_simple is quite nice aswell, although I didn't get low latency out of it (but I didn't even try) |
| 05:46.47 | flux | however the full api doesn't seem to be quite documented, or didn't I just look at the right places? |
| 05:47.06 | RST38h | none of these audio apis are documented |
| 05:47.11 | RST38h | authors are too busy extending them |
| 05:47.15 | raster | hahahaha |
| 05:47.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | sighs in dispair and waves... Night |
| 05:47.18 | raster | not esd |
| 05:47.24 | pupnik | cu DocScrutinizer51 |
| 05:47.25 | RST38h | do not believe me? check the same alsa |
| 05:47.28 | raster | that hasnt been extended in more than a decade :) |
| 05:47.40 | RST38h | raster: ok, esd is just not documented, that is all =) |
| 05:48.38 | pupnik | pa_simple looks like my kinda girl! |
| 05:48.53 | RST38h | pupnik: same problems though |
| 05:49.12 | RST38h | pupnik: high cpu usage, latency, and it locks up due to that priority bug |
| 05:49.39 | raster | esd has docs |
| 05:49.43 | raster | esd.h is commented |
| 05:49.48 | RST38h | raster: right. =) |
| 05:50.17 | njsf_ | Oh cannot ever forget the NFS 2 sources comments |
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| 05:50.48 | raster | RST38h: everything u need to use it is there |
| 05:51.03 | njsf_ | at one point in the xdr file they had all the structure documentation (as in little over the structure member names and some obvious linkages) |
| 05:51.08 | njsf_ | followed by: |
| 05:51.26 | njsf_ | From here on you're on your own. Good luck. There be dragons |
| 05:51.40 | njsf_ | :) |
| 05:51.52 | raster | that be dragons is quite a popular phrase |
| 05:51.54 | raster | :err |
| 05:51.57 | njsf_ | The course assignment was encryption at the XDR layer so NFS would be encrypted |
| 05:51.57 | raster | har be dragons |
| 05:51.58 | raster | :) |
| 05:52.00 | raster | thar |
| 05:52.02 | raster | bah |
| 05:52.23 | njsf_ | naturally I was pissed at the helpfullness of the comments :D |
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| 05:53.23 | RST38h | raster: ...and after a while I even figured out how ot use it! |
| 05:53.29 | raster | :) |
| 05:53.53 | RST38h | raster: Would much rather prefer to fopen("/dev/dsp0","wb") and use standard ioctls there though |
| 05:54.04 | RST38h | raster: "/dev/esd0" would do too =) |
| 05:54.21 | raster | well esddsp did that job for u |
| 05:54.34 | raster | if u used /dev/dsp and ioctl's... it'd just intercept and translate |
| 05:55.04 | raster | not to mention it provided a nice example of how to port from raw /dev/dsp to esd calls |
| 05:55.17 | raster | (that would even fall back to /dev/dsp for u if there was no esd around etc.) |
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| 05:55.25 | raster | tho i havent used esd myself in years |
| 05:55.31 | raster | as alpha has handled dmix for me |
| 05:55.34 | raster | err alsa |
| 05:55.47 | raster | so my goal for esd is there |
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| 05:56.08 | raster | it'd have been nice to have some kind of loopback kernel driver/module |
| 05:56.18 | pupnik | esddsp gets me sound on a couple of n810 apps. yay. |
| 05:56.53 | raster | audio and video are both a mess on linux |
| 05:57.09 | raster | audio because it just has no good management structure |
| 05:57.14 | raster | sure - alsa mixes and allows access |
| 05:57.19 | raster | but come on.. that mixer is just wrong |
| 05:57.35 | raster | pa offers structure |
| 05:57.42 | raster | ie basically an audio manager |
| 05:57.50 | raster | but it kicks in some nice overhead |
| 05:57.59 | raster | that can be fixed - someone just needs to do it |
| 05:58.16 | raster | not sure why phonon exists.. but thats how it goes |
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| 05:58.31 | raster | gst is orthogonal |
| 05:58.38 | raster | as its a layer on to to do encoding/decoding |
| 05:58.42 | raster | so thats anothe rmatterentirely |
| 05:59.35 | pupnik | looking over PA on maemo5 was educational for me. |
| 05:59.57 | pupnik | another fun thing to do is look at what the alsa driver exposes with alsamixer (pasuspender) |
| 06:00.15 | pupnik | so many mysterious fun controls! |
| 06:00.26 | raster | thats part of the problem |
| 06:00.28 | raster | too many controls |
| 06:00.53 | raster | sometime3s i event shake my head at there being both pcm and master volume |
| 06:01.09 | *** join/#maemo eggonlea (~lli5@58.246.243.190) |
| 06:01.09 | raster | i guess thanks to cd-roms and their audio analogue loopback legacy |
| 06:01.12 | raster | hooray |
| 06:01.14 | pupnik | hehehehehe |
| 06:02.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | no, you have analog loopback from alll the input channels |
| 06:02.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | 'monitor' |
| 06:03.09 | raster | there wouldnt have been a need if it were not for cd roms |
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| 06:05.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | if you want to do a dubover on an existing track then theres need for sure to add input monitor to the output with 0 latency |
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| 06:05.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | what means NO pcm |
| 06:05.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | but analog loopback |
| 06:05.53 | pupnik | good point i think :) |
| 06:06.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | from input to output |
| 06:06.13 | raster | bah |
| 06:06.13 | *** join/#maemo user__ (~user@119.73.47.5) |
| 06:06.16 | raster | who needs that? |
| 06:06.32 | raster | other than for very special case "professional" use |
| 06:06.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | who needs audio? |
| 06:06.54 | *** join/#maemo fab (~bellet@bellet.info) |
| 06:06.58 | raster | 99% of use is either - play some audio from some source (digital ie wav, mp3, - comes out as pcm) |
| 06:07.13 | raster | or record some audio from an external source (and get pcm from card) |
| 06:07.18 | raster | and do both at the same time |
| 06:07.44 | Corsac | hmhm, there's no way to access changelog.Debian.gz after installation? |
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| 06:32.41 | mece | oops |
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| 06:47.15 | pupnik | On http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_examples/ svn checkout https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/branches/fremantle-sdk-testing/maemo-examples should be changed to https://vcs.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/branches/fremantle-sdk-testing/maemo-examples/ ... apparently |
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| 06:54.01 | ZogG | beta ovisuit is windows only? damn |
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| 06:54.17 | ZogG | beta one |
| 06:54.34 | TigerTael | Does that work with the N900? |
| 06:55.05 | timeless_mbp | doubtful |
| 06:55.44 | TigerTael | Oh... ;/ |
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| 07:02.34 | mece | TigerTael, apparently they are looking for beta testers for ovi suite, particularly people with N900 |
| 07:02.53 | mece | TigerTael, so at least the goal is to get it working on N900 |
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| 07:06.18 | narayan44 | I'm just waiting for google maps for my n900 |
| 07:06.24 | narayan44 | ovi maps blows |
| 07:06.43 | narayan44 | well its not completely worthless |
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| 07:10.51 | alterego | mece: who's looking for beta testers? And where do I sign up? :D |
| 07:11.27 | mece | alterego, ovi suite 2.2 beta. |
| 07:12.08 | tybollt | mece: supposed N900 support? |
| 07:12.12 | alterego | Ah, yeah. I see it. |
| 07:12.38 | mece | tybollt, that's the point of getting N900 users as beta testers I suppose, yeah. |
| 07:12.56 | *** join/#maemo ceyusa (~vjaquez@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 07:13.46 | tybollt | mece: googlers says there's a thread on tmo - clicking the link leads to a 404 |
| 07:14.24 | tybollt | is this one of those SUPAH S3KR|T betas? |
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| 07:18.05 | ZogG | TigerTael timeless_mbp it's in the list - but in known issues is written all the problems - that are "not supoorted" most of them |
| 07:19.22 | Tuukka | tybollt, yeah the testers are supposed to keep their lips tightly closed |
| 07:20.00 | *** join/#maemo fab_ (~bellet@monkey.creatis.insa-lyon.fr) |
| 07:20.00 | Tuukka | : | |
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| 07:20.35 | mece | Tybollt: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=51800 |
| 07:20.46 | *** join/#maemo aliin19 (~Asgar@115.184.136.148) |
| 07:21.16 | aliin19 | heyyyyy \ |
| 07:21.20 | mece | tybollt, I believe some threads have been merged, hence the 404 |
| 07:21.36 | *** part/#maemo aliin19 (~Asgar@115.184.136.148) |
| 07:22.05 | timeless_mbp | ZogG: ooh, url for known issues? |
| 07:22.49 | ZogG | it's there - can't share it if you are not beta tester you wouldn't be able to see it anyway |
| 07:22.51 | ZogG | gotta go |
| 07:22.53 | ZogG | bye |
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| 07:25.08 | tybollt | jajaja |
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| 07:35.31 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 07:36.46 | crashanddie | yo from Europe |
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| 07:37.03 | mece | yo from europe also! |
| 07:37.10 | mece | :D |
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| 07:37.35 | TigerTael | yo from South Africa |
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| 07:39.16 | mece | crashanddie, are you not normally yo:ing from Europe? |
| 07:39.24 | crashanddie | nope |
| 07:39.30 | crashanddie | was in Australia for the past 6 months |
| 07:39.55 | mece | TigerTael, Funky, I was just wondering if there are many maemites in africa. Apparently at least one :D |
| 07:40.10 | mece | crashanddie, ah yesh. Now I recall. |
| 07:40.12 | crashanddie | TigerTael: howzit bru? |
| 07:41.27 | crashanddie | TigerTael: verstaan jy afrikaans of nie? |
| 07:41.58 | *** mode/#maemo [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 07:42.00 | tybollt | crashanddie: you got to fly back all the way then? News said Ireland is gearing up to shut down their flying again and others may follow. |
| 07:42.22 | crashanddie | tybollt: yeah, flew to singapore then london, and london to france, no problems with flying |
| 07:43.39 | TigerTael | crashanddie, yah. |
| 07:44.00 | tybollt | crashanddie: as someone who had to travel athens - stockholm in a bus due to that silly ash-thing some week ago I can tell you - LUCKY BASTARD ;) |
| 07:44.17 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 07:44.43 | crashanddie | tybollt: well, I spent 35 hours in planes, lucky is probably not the right word, but yeah, traveling from Oz to Europe on a coach wouldn't have been good either :P |
| 07:45.11 | crashanddie | tybollt: the fuck were you doing in athens anyhoo? Starting a revolution? |
| 07:45.15 | crashanddie | yo Jaffa |
| 07:45.21 | tybollt | ;) |
| 07:45.23 | dottedmag | Why there are there uncompressed copies of sounds from /usr/share/sounds in ~/.local/share/sounds ? |
| 07:45.29 | dottedmag | Is that some kind of cache? |
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| 07:46.17 | tybollt | crashanddie: no I was in africa actually - egypt - tanning my pink skin. athens was as far into europe as anyone dared fly |
| 07:46.29 | crashanddie | ouch |
| 07:46.53 | tybollt | but yeah - greece right now - seems a bit of a clusterfuck :S |
| 07:47.49 | crashanddie | so did I miss something with regards to PR1.2? |
| 07:47.52 | crashanddie | it was leaked? |
| 07:47.53 | *** join/#maemo noobmonk3y (~noobmonk3@host86-178-50-44.range86-178.btcentralplus.com) |
| 07:48.01 | TigerTael | crashanddie, leaked yes... |
| 07:48.13 | TigerTael | It was totally awesome, peoples phones started going mental... |
| 07:48.16 | fcrozat | but not final 1.2 |
| 07:48.18 | fcrozat | a pre-release |
| 07:48.25 | noobmonk3y | lol at the rooms title ;) |
| 07:48.29 | noobmonk3y | nornin alls |
| 07:48.31 | crashanddie | man, what has maemo.org become, apple.com? |
| 07:48.40 | crashanddie | Who the fuck cares about a leaked version? |
| 07:48.41 | timeless_mbp | crashanddie: eh? |
| 07:48.50 | timeless_mbp | oh, you mean macrumors.com? |
| 07:48.50 | narayan44 | any good? |
| 07:48.57 | crashanddie | timeless_mbp: yeah, pretty much |
| 07:49.05 | crashanddie | timeless_mbp: yeah, sorry, tmo = fmc |
| 07:49.06 | timeless_mbp | rumors are bad |
| 07:49.13 | tybollt | crashanddie: yes, yes apparently it was and it was a big ass bruhaha over on TMO during the weekend. Even the "cease and desist" like posts were issued :) |
| 07:49.27 | crashanddie | tybollt: yeah, saw reggie's post |
| 07:49.42 | lcuk | crashanddie, you should know, open source cares more about copyright than anyone |
| 07:49.50 | crashanddie | lcuk: :D |
| 07:49.55 | tybollt | timeless_mbp: Joe Average thrive on rumours... |
| 07:49.55 | narayan44 | I know...right... |
| 07:49.57 | jacekowski | if anybody is interested in flashing his phone with leakyware |
| 07:49.58 | narayan44 | I was just about to say |
| 07:50.08 | jacekowski | i'm happy to break the law and provide him with that firmware |
| 07:50.09 | crashanddie | jacekowski: same rules applies here |
| 07:50.22 | crashanddie | jacekowski: so say one more thing and get uberslapped :P |
| 07:50.26 | noobmonk3y | grins |
| 07:50.32 | *** join/#maemo booiiing (~booiiing]@cl-959.dus-01.de.sixxs.net) |
| 07:50.33 | narayan44 | to be honest do you trust it?? |
| 07:50.36 | lcuk | heya noobmonk3y \o |
| 07:50.42 | noobmonk3y | morning lcuk :D :D |
| 07:50.51 | narayan44 | I mean I ran hacked firmware on my motorola v3 for years |
| 07:50.54 | timeless_mbp | would you like a nice brick with that? |
| 07:50.56 | noobmonk3y | is sick in bed today :( - oh well, more coding to do ;) |
| 07:51.30 | crashanddie | I'm actually tempted to spend today building a fake image that will only show a jack-in-the-box going "AHAHA" (the horrible laughter from Jurassic Park) |
| 07:51.30 | TigerTael | narayan44, hacked firmware is different from Alpha firmware. |
| 07:51.48 | jacekowski | well, stating that filename of that firmware is [censored] and md5sum is [censored] isn't breaking a law |
| 07:51.54 | lcuk | crashanddie, that would make a good app :) |
| 07:52.05 | lcuk | supply your own picture and sound and let people make their own |
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| 07:52.15 | crashanddie | lcuk: my conversation searcher is going along quite nicely |
| 07:52.26 | lcuk | neural upgrade? |
| 07:52.47 | narayan44 | still I'm not adventerous enough to run alpha firmware on my cellphone I use everyday |
| 07:52.47 | lcuk | in all seriousness, good |
| 07:53.13 | crashanddie | lcuk: now have options to search specific dates, specific senders, phone number ranges, specific keywords, and also isn't restricted to sms anymore, I support all conversation types now (and obviously, you can filter which type you want to search) |
| 07:53.16 | lcuk | also, see this lovely piece of open source wizardry for our maemo http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=641035#post641035 |
| 07:53.23 | lcuk | portrait sms |
| 07:53.28 | crashanddie | and it is mighty fast |
| 07:53.47 | lcuk | make sure you include mms in that when you are done |
| 07:53.51 | alterego | crashanddie: you're stealing my idea :P I was gonna replace the boot up screen with a rick roll and call it PR1.3 :P |
| 07:53.52 | lcuk | speak with frals |
| 07:53.56 | crashanddie | will do |
| 07:54.30 | lcuk | i dunno where he stores them |
| 07:54.30 | noobmonk3y | throws a trout at frals |
| 07:54.30 | jacekowski | narayan44: n900 isn't a phone |
| 07:54.31 | alterego | crashanddie: I was going to write an app that allows you to generate your own maemo fiasco images and replace the boot screen with any video of your choosing. Thought it would stop people trusting any old source of images ;) |
| 07:54.38 | noobmonk3y | jacekowski, my n900 is my mobile phone, whatcha on about willis |
| 07:54.50 | lcuk | its my phone too |
| 07:54.54 | jacekowski | noobmonk3y: it's a tablet with phone functionality |
| 07:54.56 | narayan44 | I know its a tablet with a GSm radio thrown in as an after thought |
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| 07:55.01 | narayan44 | but I use it as a phone |
| 07:55.03 | lcuk | no its a phone with awesomeness built in |
| 07:55.05 | crashanddie | lcuk: application starts up in less than a second, and a search takes .4 seconds on average. SQLite is seriously fast, excellent. |
| 07:55.05 | noobmonk3y | jacekowski, it is my mobile phone....... dont care what you call it ;) |
| 07:55.19 | TigerTael | My N900 IS MY PHONE. |
| 07:55.22 | noobmonk3y | lol |
| 07:55.23 | lcuk | yeah crashanddie i know sqlite can handle these small databases wlel |
| 07:55.23 | TigerTael | So don't tell me my phone isn't a phone. |
| 07:55.25 | noobmonk3y | i love this debate :P |
| 07:55.30 | TigerTael | Bloody idiots. ;p |
| 07:55.33 | jacekowski | crashanddie: sqlite is slow if you compare it to big database |
| 07:55.41 | lcuk | no jacekowski |
| 07:55.47 | lcuk | a big database usually has overheads |
| 07:55.51 | lcuk | and copying data etc |
| 07:55.59 | lcuk | small sqlite database should be blinding |
| 07:56.06 | noobmonk3y | hasnt tried using the sqlite yet :| |
| 07:56.12 | jacekowski | sqlite has overheads on lot of things |
| 07:56.21 | jacekowski | it has to open db, load i |
| 07:56.23 | lcuk | sure, but orders of magnitude less |
| 07:56.24 | jacekowski | load it* |
| 07:56.28 | crashanddie | jacekowski: well, be my guest if you want to run oracle on your n900 |
| 07:56.29 | jacekowski | no way to cache stuff |
| 07:56.37 | lcuk | its the microsoft access for linux :D |
| 07:56.56 | lcuk | likes it as a small single user db |
| 07:56.57 | jacekowski | dynamic field sizes |
| 07:57.04 | jacekowski | lcuk: i prefer mysql |
| 07:57.08 | jacekowski | with libmysql |
| 07:57.09 | raster | sqlite isnt bad |
| 07:57.15 | lcuk | you can keep yoursql then :p |
| 07:57.20 | raster | but ... its not amazingly fast |
| 07:57.21 | TigerTael | ;) |
| 07:57.23 | raster | http://watchwolf.fr/blog/index.php?post/2009/09/27/Sqlite-versus-Eet |
| 07:57.26 | viliny_ | mssql ftw! |
| 07:57.32 | crashanddie | jacekowski: but well, you can't really compare an oracle cluster running on zLinux on mainframes with a database running on an n900 |
| 07:57.43 | lcuk | jacekowski, ive got mysql and sqlite in use in different places |
| 07:57.43 | raster | just scroll to the bottom if u want the numbers |
| 07:57.57 | lcuk | on a webserver - totally granted, mysql pwns |
| 07:58.12 | lcuk | but on the device sqlite is quick and effective as long as you dont overload it |
| 07:58.15 | raster | (eet beats sqlite by like about 5x) |
| 07:58.22 | lcuk | (example: i made a 115mb monster) |
| 07:58.32 | crashanddie | gents, I wasn't trying to start a db-war |
| 07:58.36 | raster | in this case the actual kind of usage both are intended for - looking up stuff cached on disk |
| 07:58.49 | crashanddie | I was just saying: calling sqlite from python is a lot faster than I expected |
| 07:58.51 | raster | cas no need for war :) |
| 07:58.53 | raster | sqlite is decent |
| 07:59.13 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:59.24 | crashanddie | meh, sqlite is also the main db on android |
| 07:59.42 | tybollt | Yes I need me a DB on my N900 - so I will install a full blown DB2 - sure! |
| 07:59.44 | crashanddie | feel free to implement your own, I'm going with whatever works and requires least amount of work |
| 08:00.02 | raster | already do |
| 08:00.16 | crashanddie | in this case, sqlite with python bindings is installed on nearly every n900, which means less space requirements for my users |
| 08:00.26 | TigerTael | crashanddie, it sounds good to me. |
| 08:00.34 | raster | eet was written years ago. and its the basis of a lot of tech that runtime decodes data from disk per-widget |
| 08:00.42 | raster | and it works very fast because it was intended to do just that |
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| 08:00.53 | lcuk | nice raster |
| 08:01.01 | raster | sure |
| 08:01.14 | raster | if all you want is "make my app work on an n900 with minimal dependencies" then thats fine |
| 08:01.33 | raster | if u are designing software and looking for a very fast/optimal way to store/save config (from c/c++ apps) |
| 08:01.53 | raster | and otherwise do the same for blobs of data like caches, contacts, etc. etc |
| 08:02.10 | raster | (stuff you read very often, modify rarely) then eet seems ti do better |
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| 08:06.24 | crashanddie | again |
| 08:06.37 | crashanddie | "fast/optimal way to store/save config" is a stupid argument |
| 08:06.47 | crashanddie | You read configuration once, write it once (in most workflows) |
| 08:06.55 | crashanddie | it doesn't require blisteringly fast reaction times |
| 08:07.06 | crashanddie | unless you read/write your config every millisecond, that is |
| 08:07.41 | crashanddie | cache shouldn't be in a db, it should be in cache (duh) |
| 08:07.50 | linuxcentos | Morning |
| 08:07.58 | crashanddie | and contacts is hardly something you would read extremely often, again |
| 08:08.17 | linuxcentos | i'm looking to try Qt SDK |
| 08:08.35 | linuxcentos | is it possbile to use Java to develop Qt apps? |
| 08:08.48 | crashanddie | in other words: stop trolling about your db (that for some reason google france can't even find); the best way to convert people is by showing them use-cases (as in, in working applications) where the advantage is obvious. |
| 08:09.00 | linuxcentos | can't find docs on Java + Qt on qt.nokia.com |
| 08:09.04 | raster | crashanddie: depends what yopu mean by cache... have you ever tried to deal wiyth fdo standards? which eman u have to scane lots of directories load lots of .desktop file s - parse them |
| 08:09.07 | tekojo | linuxcentos: no, it's c++ or python |
| 08:09.12 | lcuk | crashanddie, contacts are read more than you think |
| 08:09.12 | raster | scane lots of fs heirachies hunting for icons |
| 08:09.15 | raster | u want caches. |
| 08:09.32 | raster | and as i mentioned - contacts. they are read very often compared to writes.. |
| 08:09.43 | narayan44 | haha people flame over anything |
| 08:09.52 | linuxcentos | tekojo: any links to tutorial? |
| 08:09.54 | narayan44 | speaking of which has anyone ported emacs to the n900 yet |
| 08:10.00 | raster | incoming call, search for contact. entering a phone numebr, email address etc. - trynig to match what you type to something in your contacts and present completions etc. |
| 08:10.06 | dottedmag | narayan44: It's selling the technology stack -> trying to bring more contributors. |
| 08:10.13 | dottedmag | nicely done, btw. |
| 08:10.15 | tybollt | so |
| 08:10.33 | crashanddie | lcuk: and searching through 8 months worth of is done in .4 seconds, so there really isn't any reason to flame any more :P |
| 08:10.46 | mece | linuxcentos, http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.6//index.html |
| 08:10.47 | crashanddie | s/worth of/worth of conversations/ |
| 08:10.50 | tekojo | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.6/index.html |
| 08:11.13 | mece | tekojo, simple minds think alike |
| 08:11.18 | tekojo | mece you are fast! |
| 08:11.25 | tybollt | out of all this chatter about the new ovi beta... is it clear yet if this is contained to Ovi suite or is it known whether Ovi.com will follow suit and be compatible w/ the N900 soon too? |
| 08:11.45 | mece | linuxcentos, for python: http://www.pyside.org/documentation/ |
| 08:12.28 | mece | tybollt, it's just the ovi suite so far, afaict. |
| 08:13.33 | jacekowski | crashanddie: no way it's doing it that fast |
| 08:13.41 | jacekowski | crashanddie: or you are not talking a lot |
| 08:13.48 | jacekowski | crashanddie: how big is that db? |
| 08:13.51 | mece | any pyqt/pyside coders around? I've got a possibly simple issue that I don't know how to solve. |
| 08:13.58 | crashanddie | jacekowski: dunno, n900 is discharged, can't check |
| 08:14.10 | *** join/#maemo adalal (~aritra@cpc4-clif8-2-0-cust778.know.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 08:14.20 | jacekowski | sqlite doesn't have support for fulltext indexing |
| 08:14.31 | jacekowski | so it can only use naive "bruteforce" search |
| 08:14.34 | raster | hehehe |
| 08:15.17 | dottedmag | jacekowski: wha? fts3? |
| 08:15.18 | pupnik | it would be nice if apt-worker didn't have to bruteforce update everything |
| 08:15.36 | pupnik | but then again, just avoid using HAM and upgrades are painless |
| 08:17.52 | *** join/#maemo shinkamui (~KamN900@ip68-11-94-155.no.no.cox.net) |
| 08:19.33 | mece | ok whatevs, perhaps there's a similar solution in c++. So I've got a stacked window, and I want a function run in the main window after I return from the stacked one. How to do that? Alternatively, how do I access the parent window's functions? |
| 08:20.57 | raster | wonders why you don't just hook a callback to the stacked window delete/close signal and run it there |
| 08:21.08 | raster | i assume qt has such a thing... |
| 08:21.23 | Khertan | Hi everybody ! |
| 08:21.33 | mece | tips his hat to Khertan |
| 08:21.33 | *** join/#maemo ThoMe (tm@tm.muc.de) |
| 08:21.34 | ThoMe | Hello! |
| 08:22.29 | Khertan | mece, sorry cann't help with pyqt/pyside i ve full of strange behavior |
| 08:22.31 | ThoMe | I have a Nokia n900. |
| 08:22.41 | mece | ThoMe, yay you! |
| 08:22.44 | ThoMe | What can I do for to compile to strongSwan (IPSEC, http://www.strongswan.org)? |
| 08:24.03 | mece | ThoMe, tru building with autotools in scratchbox as explained here: http://wiki.strongswan.org/wiki/strongswan/InstallationDocumentation |
| 08:24.07 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~wazd@188.123.241.73) |
| 08:24.31 | mece | s/tru/try |
| 08:24.35 | jacekowski | ThoMe: ipsec and n900 isn't going to happen |
| 08:24.47 | jacekowski | ThoMe: n900 kernel don't have required modules |
| 08:24.51 | mece | ThoMe, or don't. Thanks jacekowski |
| 08:24.52 | ThoMe | jacekowski: oh, why? oh ok :-( |
| 08:25.20 | ThoMe | jacekowski: and later is this modul available? |
| 08:25.23 | *** join/#maemo florian_kc (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 08:25.25 | jacekowski | but you can probably build them |
| 08:25.36 | mece | jacekowski, any reason why said modules couldn't be added in a custom kernel? |
| 08:25.52 | jacekowski | you can add them |
| 08:26.02 | ThoMe | jacekowski: I? i dont know.. how? :-) |
| 08:26.05 | jacekowski | but if he's asking how to build that |
| 08:26.16 | ThoMe | jacekowski: jo! :P |
| 08:26.16 | jacekowski | then he's probably not going to know how to build kernel |
| 08:26.16 | lcuk | crashanddie, case in point about earlier: http://blog.barisione.org/2010-05/gtk-surprises-on-maemo/ |
| 08:26.17 | flashn | you can load them virtually |
| 08:26.24 | lcuk | jaffa you get a mention too :p |
| 08:26.39 | ThoMe | jacekowski: can you help me for built it? |
| 08:27.24 | jacekowski | not really |
| 08:27.43 | jacekowski | i've got no idea what toolchain nokia is using to build n900 kernel |
| 08:27.46 | ThoMe | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/vpnc/ <<only ipsec with shared-secret-key and i think ike V1 |
| 08:27.57 | ThoMe | i need auth via certificate and ike V2 |
| 08:28.02 | *** join/#maemo Erod (~Juno@unaffiliated/erod) |
| 08:28.07 | jacekowski | and it's probably older than sb toolchain |
| 08:28.39 | jacekowski | so best case scenario is that you will end up with tainted kernel |
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| 08:32.29 | wazd | boarning people :) |
| 08:32.50 | Jaffa | lcuk: Ah, yes - I remember what barisione wanted to talk about now :-) |
| 08:32.51 | DocScrutinizer | roaming |
| 08:32.57 | tybollt | are you a boar now? |
| 08:33.00 | lcuk | lol jaffa :) |
| 08:33.24 | barisione | Jaffa: yeah, I will report a bug for hermes in the next days :) |
| 08:33.51 | Jaffa | barisione: Is there a spec for what file should be used for the contact picture? |
| 08:33.58 | Jaffa | barisione: (i.e. location) |
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| 08:35.42 | barisione | Jaffa: you can put it where you want, but there is a but related to the deletion of the avatars |
| 08:35.48 | barisione | I will tell you later in a bug report |
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| 08:39.30 | lcuk | barisione, this is optimal location and the existing methods will work i gather? (since i know there are other apps which perform similar duties been asked about/notified wanting to do similar) |
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| 08:45.23 | mece | ah solved. parentWidget() duh. |
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| 08:51.53 | alterego | So, are we placing bets on PR1.2 being released today? |
| 08:52.04 | Corsac | see topic |
| 08:52.05 | alterego | I'll take, by-the-end of the month. |
| 08:52.47 | alterego | oops |
| 08:58.21 | Scelt | it's dump that we are not allowed to talk about pr 1.2 without a punishment. |
| 08:58.36 | RST38h | Yes, talk about it and you will never get it |
| 08:58.42 | viliny_ | Scelt: Dumb |
| 08:58.47 | Scelt | it's like kicking if talking about GTK |
| 08:58.55 | Scelt | viliny_: oh, typo :) |
| 08:58.58 | viliny_ | :] |
| 08:59.21 | alterego | What about Gtk in PR1.2? |
| 08:59.34 | alterego | I just want Qt4.6 :( |
| 08:59.36 | Scelt | No! Don't say the forbidden words! |
| 08:59.56 | Scelt | I sense the dark side of the Force is strong in you |
| 09:00.54 | Tuukka | ~pr1.2 |
| 09:00.55 | infobot | pr1.2 is, like, not here yet. Stop asking. Read the topic Just stop asking. Read the topic. AND STOP ASKING. If you ask then release moves by another week, so do not ask. |
| 09:01.31 | viliny_ | a week each time eh? i don't think i'll have the n900 in 24 years :/ |
| 09:01.54 | Surfa | do you guys know, if tehere is support for pan panu role in n900, official apparently not, but unofficial? |
| 09:02.23 | alterego | Hah |
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| 09:07.12 | Khertan | alterego, qt isn't the solution |
| 09:07.14 | Khertan | really |
| 09:07.16 | Tuukka | Going to order a dataplan today :) |
| 09:07.21 | Khertan | gtk is far away better :) |
| 09:07.24 | Khertan | believe me |
| 09:07.25 | Khertan | :) |
| 09:07.43 | alterego | Khertan: I might prefer Gtk, but Qt is the future ... |
| 09:07.48 | alterego | There's no denying that. |
| 09:07.55 | Khertan | is going to replace moblin on his netbook ... |
| 09:07.58 | wazd | Khertan: heya :) |
| 09:08.12 | Khertan | alterego, qt isn't the futur ... it one possible future |
| 09:08.18 | Khertan | alterego, qt isn't the futur ... it s one possible future |
| 09:08.21 | Tuukka | full speed (15Mb/s) unlimited usage 13,9e/month |
| 09:08.39 | Khertan | and i believe that you ll come back from this qt everywhere solution :) |
| 09:09.27 | Khertan | and all of this is a matter of preferences |
| 09:09.29 | Khertan | really |
| 09:09.39 | *** join/#maemo Free_maN (~Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman) |
| 09:10.44 | Surfa | well, if' you want to have somehow reasonable portability between nokia devices, qt may be wise way to go |
| 09:11.06 | Khertan | Ultra speed (0.8 Mb/s) unlimited usage (until you reach 500Mo) with full access (http and https only) 25.90 :) (french isp) |
| 09:11.26 | Khertan | Surfa, portability ... haha ! |
| 09:11.53 | Surfa | Khertan, using gtk it's not possible even in theory |
| 09:12.11 | Khertan | gtk on what ? meego ? |
| 09:12.32 | Khertan | it s in the schema showing different component of the plateform |
| 09:12.35 | Surfa | ok, so you just didn't read my first line? |
| 09:13.14 | Khertan | it s words portability that make me laught ... |
| 09:13.24 | alterego | Not just Nokia devices, desktop machines too |
| 09:13.30 | alterego | Maybe even server solutions. |
| 09:13.31 | Khertan | yep |
| 09:13.35 | alterego | I quite like Qt to be honest. |
| 09:13.43 | Khertan | hum |
| 09:13.52 | Surfa | Khertan, it's so easy to stick one word on the line that contains multiple others too |
| 09:13.52 | Khertan | you ll got same result as with gtk :) |
| 09:13.58 | jacekowski | Khertan: o2 seems to have fair fair use policy |
| 09:13.59 | Khertan | yep |
| 09:14.04 | *** join/#maemo bergie (~bergie@nemein.suvilahti.nemein.net) |
| 09:14.07 | Khertan | o2 ? |
| 09:14.16 | jacekowski | yeah |
| 09:14.19 | jacekowski | at least o2 uk |
| 09:14.27 | Khertan | ah sorry :) |
| 09:14.30 | Surfa | o2, that operator you know? |
| 09:14.52 | nid0 | o2 uk has a fup but they dont enforce it unless you really really take the piss |
| 09:14.53 | Khertan | didn't know them ... i didn't think they exist in france |
| 09:15.14 | *** join/#maemo eluiandil (~d94d3628@gateway/web/freenode/x-oljrucjrtaennpco) |
| 09:15.19 | eluiandil | hi all |
| 09:15.45 | Khertan | we have only 3 isp here in france and i think that the problem come from that ... |
| 09:15.59 | jacekowski | nid0: well i really took a piss and they didn't enforced it |
| 09:16.03 | eluiandil | does maemo 5 have /proc/config.gz ? |
| 09:16.16 | jacekowski | nid0: as far as i know they enforce it different way |
| 09:16.34 | noobmonk3y | prods frals |
| 09:16.41 | jacekowski | nid0: traffic is prioritized by amount of data downloaded |
| 09:16.42 | frals | slaps noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout |
| 09:16.45 | jacekowski | eluiandil: no |
| 09:16.52 | eluiandil | if no, how i can get current kernel configuration? |
| 09:16.52 | frals | hows you noobmonk3y? |
| 09:16.58 | nid0 | o2 used to apply a speed cap over 2gb afaik, but they abolished the hard limiting a while ago, now they just contact you if you pull in tens of gb and ask you to ease up |
| 09:17.05 | noobmonk3y | :D :D ill, but apart from that, fine :P |
| 09:17.10 | frals | :D |
| 09:17.16 | noobmonk3y | think i've figure out the healthcheck bug :| |
| 09:17.16 | chem|st | I need a new weapon... the guys are going nuts on tmo now |
| 09:17.23 | noobmonk3y | just removed the gps and loaction examples :P |
| 09:17.28 | frals | figuring out a bug is usually ":D" :P |
| 09:17.33 | noobmonk3y | lol true |
| 09:17.37 | eluiandil | jacekowski: how i can get current kernel configuration? |
| 09:17.38 | noobmonk3y | ok figured iout where it is |
| 09:17.43 | noobmonk3y | just not why it happens |
| 09:17.56 | frals | noobmonk3y: you should just add a check so it doesnt run it if the user denies access to the gps |
| 09:17.57 | nid0 | semi-figured-out then :p |
| 09:18.04 | noobmonk3y | good point |
| 09:18.12 | frals | also still not gotten a link to your git repo! |
| 09:18.19 | frals | or svn or cvs or whatever :P |
| 09:18.22 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@wifi-roaming-0-19.nss.udel.edu) |
| 09:18.47 | jacekowski | eluiandil: have you downloaded maemo kernel sources? |
| 09:19.23 | noobmonk3y | lol frals |
| 09:19.29 | noobmonk3y | setting up a git looked like a nightmare |
| 09:19.35 | eluiandil | jacekowski: yes, from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/k/kernel/kernel_2.6.28.orig.tar.gz |
| 09:20.02 | noobmonk3y | has very little experience with any of those, so slightly worried i may just bugger everything up |
| 09:20.32 | jacekowski | eluiandil: you need diff as well |
| 09:20.46 | jacekowski | eluiandil: then you unpack it |
| 09:20.50 | jacekowski | eluiandil: patch it with that diff |
| 09:21.06 | jacekowski | eluiandil: and then you will find config files where they should be |
| 09:21.24 | crashanddie | lcuk: interesting link |
| 09:21.39 | *** join/#maemo yerga (~Daniel@Maemo/community/contributor/yerga) |
| 09:21.42 | eluiandil | jacekowski: i will try this, thanx |
| 09:22.34 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@pd95bc258.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:23.53 | frals | noobmonk3y: if you mess up the repo just start again :P |
| 09:24.11 | noobmonk3y | :| repo? so confused i thought gits just store files? |
| 09:24.33 | frals | yeah the git repository :P |
| 09:25.13 | frals | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_%28software%29 ! |
| 09:25.37 | Scelt | I'm using git, it's awesome |
| 09:25.45 | Scelt | local commits just rock |
| 09:26.21 | noobmonk3y | :| which git is best to use? :| i assume there is more then 1 :P |
| 09:26.30 | noobmonk3y | Scelt, wouldnt have a clue what ya mean by that! |
| 09:26.50 | *** join/#maemo valdyn (~valdyn@valdyn.org) |
| 09:27.55 | frals | apt-get install git-core |
| 09:29.29 | *** join/#maemo JLP (~jlp@tm.84.52.174.5.dc.cable.static.telemach.net) |
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| 09:29.32 | Scelt | noobmonk3y: you can commit locally changes and then push them to repo instead of just commiting them to repo. the advance is that you can commit code that isn't ready or fully tested yet if you want to try something else in between etc. |
| 09:29.56 | noobmonk3y | ohhh - so without having to repackage everything over and over again? |
| 09:30.07 | Scelt | :) |
| 09:30.20 | noobmonk3y | hmmm but can i do it on the device and my pc? :P |
| 09:30.32 | Scelt | you're going to far. I'm talking about source code, nothing about compiling |
| 09:30.38 | Scelt | too |
| 09:30.40 | noobmonk3y | oh :( |
| 09:31.07 | Scelt | I'm mainly a web developer so not using much compiling at all |
| 09:31.09 | noobmonk3y | frals, on the device i assume? |
| 09:31.38 | frals | noobmonk3y: yes, or wherever you got your code |
| 09:31.50 | noobmonk3y | on a windows vista laptop, and the device :P |
| 09:31.59 | frals | easiest is to register at gitorious.org and create a project there and commit to, or use garage |
| 09:32.04 | noobmonk3y | installing it on the n900 atm :P |
| 09:32.05 | Scelt | github? |
| 09:32.09 | frals | or github i guess |
| 09:32.56 | KnightStalker | LOLs at nokia n8 sneak peak => http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/nseries |
| 09:33.00 | KnightStalker | whats that about :p |
| 09:33.08 | KnightStalker | peek* |
| 09:33.20 | noobmonk3y | hmmmm now you gave me a choice, eeeeeek |
| 09:33.25 | noobmonk3y | which one is easier lol |
| 09:34.16 | lcuk | frals, noobmonk3y im a member at both github and gitorious |
| 09:34.26 | frals | dunno i use gitorious, works for me |
| 09:34.27 | noobmonk3y | lol thats cos u rock ;) |
| 09:34.27 | lcuk | gitorious is nicer :) |
| 09:34.30 | frals | and i like the webinterface! |
| 09:34.34 | noobmonk3y | ooo i can use openid! |
| 09:34.35 | noobmonk3y | yay |
| 09:35.11 | lcuk | but liqbase is staying on github because i tend to break git repositories when i move them |
| 09:35.25 | *** join/#maemo frankS2 (frank@unaffiliated/franks2) |
| 09:35.50 | noobmonk3y | hows the mouth lcuk ? |
| 09:36.15 | lcuk | 24 minutes from not hurting any more hopefully |
| 09:38.05 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 09:39.32 | noobmonk3y | awwwww |
| 09:39.38 | noobmonk3y | right i have a gitorious account! |
| 09:40.31 | noobmonk3y | lol it lost me on the first page :P ssh keys |
| 09:40.52 | noobmonk3y | It's generally located in ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub or ~/.ssh/id_dsa.pub. If you want to use multiple keys you'll have to add each of them seperately. |
| 09:41.22 | X-Fade | noobmonk3y: Use ssh-keygen to create one |
| 09:42.14 | noobmonk3y | thinks to say thanks but thinks X-Fade also just spoke in chinese ;) |
| 09:42.35 | noobmonk3y | http://www.sshkeygen.com/ ? |
| 09:42.39 | X-Fade | NO! |
| 09:42.39 | *** join/#maemo th3hate (~Chrome@bzq-79-181-3-99.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 09:42.47 | noobmonk3y | lol |
| 09:42.48 | X-Fade | That is the worst thing one can ever do :) |
| 09:42.50 | noobmonk3y | haha |
| 09:42.56 | *** join/#maemo GNUton-BNC (~gnuton@kde/developer/aloisio) |
| 09:42.58 | lcuk | use your n900 |
| 09:43.08 | noobmonk3y | oooo |
| 09:43.10 | noobmonk3y | gotcha! |
| 09:43.13 | X-Fade | Letting your private key be created by a website. |
| 09:43.25 | X-Fade | That opens you up to being hacked. |
| 09:43.39 | noobmonk3y | i'm assuming a passphrase is a sensible idea |
| 09:44.13 | lcuk | its a little ott for some things but depends on your level of security required |
| 09:45.44 | noobmonk3y | hmmm |
| 09:45.47 | noobmonk3y | ok created i think |
| 09:46.17 | X-Fade | noobmonk3y: Ok, then it should be in /home/user/.ssh/id_rsa.pub |
| 09:46.28 | dottedmag | Is there any cron-like compatibility layer for alarmd? |
| 09:46.34 | dottedmag | I just want to run some script every day |
| 09:46.34 | X-Fade | Or dsa if you created a dsa key. |
| 09:46.36 | *** join/#maemo alexg__ (~alex@87.223.161.65) |
| 09:46.40 | noobmonk3y | yup just found a file |
| 09:50.47 | noobmonk3y | lmfao |
| 09:50.52 | noobmonk3y | loving the licence choice |
| 09:50.59 | noobmonk3y | (on gitorious) |
| 09:51.31 | noobmonk3y | any suggestions for licence? |
| 09:51.40 | noobmonk3y | otherwise i may be on wikipedia for a while |
| 09:51.52 | X-Fade | noobmonk3y: Depends on what you want out of it. |
| 09:52.07 | noobmonk3y | wouldnt be open source if i wanted to be a millionaire lol |
| 09:52.28 | X-Fade | If you want people to be able to steal it -> BSD |
| 09:52.43 | X-Fade | If you like the source to be available even after fork -> *GPL* |
| 09:52.54 | noobmonk3y | ooo gpl sounds fun |
| 09:52.55 | *** join/#maemo wazd_n900 (~user@188.123.241.73) |
| 09:52.58 | noobmonk3y | so people can still use it |
| 09:53.06 | noobmonk3y | but my project will be my project |
| 09:53.07 | wazd_n900 | hello again |
| 09:53.12 | noobmonk3y | hi wazd_n900 |
| 09:53.34 | X-Fade | noobmonk3y: Well, with GPL your project won't be your project exactly. |
| 09:53.43 | noobmonk3y | oh lols |
| 09:53.44 | wazd_n900 | people, how can I unpack 7z archive on n900? :) |
| 09:54.12 | X-Fade | noobmonk3y: Anybody can fork it, but they have to give you the source if you ask for it. (If they publish the app) |
| 09:54.17 | noobmonk3y | ok i want a project to share my code - and allow others to upload obviously :P - but i suppose i need to release the idea of ownership |
| 09:54.28 | timeless_mbp | X-Fade: 'publish' isn't the right word |
| 09:54.38 | timeless_mbp | if i publish an app to a store and charge $1m |
| 09:54.42 | RichardP | I dont suppose theres an app which allows me to use the N900 as a wifi router for mobile data access from a laptop, is there? :) |
| 09:54.46 | jacekowski | timeless_mbp: you can't |
| 09:54.49 | timeless_mbp | and you don't buy it, you aren't entitled to source :) |
| 09:54.54 | noobmonk3y | RichardP, two of them |
| 09:54.55 | jacekowski | timeless_mbp: there is $199 limit as far as i know |
| 09:54.57 | timeless_mbp | jacekowski: why not? |
| 09:54.58 | noobmonk3y | joikuspot and mobile hotspot |
| 09:55.11 | timeless_mbp | jacekowski: i didn't say 'ovi store' :) |
| 09:55.13 | RichardP | noobmonk3y: thanks |
| 09:55.20 | noobmonk3y | :D |
| 09:55.20 | adeus | is joikuspot something else then pre-alpha already? |
| 09:55.22 | X-Fade | timeless_mbp: Yeah, but trying to explain the gpl to a noob in 2 sentences ) |
| 09:55.26 | X-Fade | timeless_mbp: Kind of hard ;) |
| 09:55.29 | noobmonk3y | adeus, 1.1 works fine for me |
| 09:55.34 | noobmonk3y | just kick out every few hours though |
| 09:55.39 | noobmonk3y | does* |
| 09:55.47 | noobmonk3y | X-Fade, you did a good job :D |
| 09:55.56 | adeus | interesting |
| 09:56.05 | adeus | that current version I have works for about 10 seconds |
| 09:56.08 | jacekowski | timeless_mbp: and with GPL one person can buy it and share source with everybody |
| 09:56.08 | adeus | then the device boots |
| 09:56.16 | noobmonk3y | :P |
| 09:56.19 | X-Fade | noobmonk3y: Anyway, ownership and opensource is kind of hard. |
| 09:56.23 | timeless_mbp | jacekowski: find a person w/ a million dollars for me, and we'll talk :) |
| 09:56.35 | jacekowski | timeless_mbp: so you might sell only one million dollar copy |
| 09:56.37 | noobmonk3y | good point |
| 09:56.45 | timeless_mbp | jacekowski: that's ok |
| 09:56.54 | jacekowski | open source doesn't work very well as business model |
| 09:56.57 | timeless_mbp | even after 70% taxes, i'm still better off than i was a year ago |
| 09:57.23 | jacekowski | it works quite well as something to save lot of money |
| 09:57.38 | jacekowski | code reuse and etc. |
| 09:58.07 | noobmonk3y | hmmm ok..... getting there |
| 09:58.08 | noobmonk3y | Add new repository to Healthcheck |
| 09:58.10 | jacekowski | it works out better to reuse somebody else code, give something to community and sell just software that works on top of it |
| 09:58.26 | noobmonk3y | i'm assuming by repository i had a development repo or something to the project? |
| 09:58.53 | timeless_mbp | jacekowski: unfair |
| 09:59.11 | jacekowski | why? |
| 09:59.18 | FIQ | Hmm |
| 09:59.28 | jacekowski | it's how everybody is doing it |
| 09:59.40 | noobmonk3y | ohhhhhhhk |
| 09:59.44 | noobmonk3y | i have a git repo! |
| 09:59.48 | jacekowski | ugh |
| 09:59.50 | jacekowski | use svn |
| 09:59.57 | FIQ | Wouldn't it be possible for the maemo community, or by Nokia to host a repository that have bug fixes and such? |
| 09:59.59 | noobmonk3y | it seems to just be swearing at me a lot and calling me a git. :( |
| 10:00.07 | FIQ | On the parts that is open source i mean |
| 10:00.12 | noobmonk3y | jacekowski, dont tell me that now lol! |
| 10:00.42 | FIQ | So things can improve before a new fw |
| 10:00.51 | *** join/#maemo lma (~51bb52a5@gateway/web/freenode/x-zcrztipfvgiqcwvu) |
| 10:01.03 | X-Fade | FIQ: We had that once, it was named Sardine. |
| 10:01.34 | lma | X-Fade: Stskeeps: Re: Community updates for diablo meeting - want to do it now? |
| 10:02.02 | FIQ | Because i feel the "release often" thing doesn't really seems to be crect. |
| 10:02.09 | FIQ | X-Fade: ok |
| 10:02.13 | FIQ | for fremanthle? |
| 10:02.15 | FIQ | -h |
| 10:02.21 | X-Fade | FIQ: No, years ago. |
| 10:02.27 | FIQ | ahh |
| 10:02.30 | FIQ | oki |
| 10:02.40 | FIQ | s/crect/correct/ |
| 10:02.44 | X-Fade | lma: Fine by me, I'm around. |
| 10:03.00 | X-Fade | lma: Even better in about an hour actually. |
| 10:03.05 | timeless_mbp | FIQ: who said anything about release often? |
| 10:03.20 | timeless_mbp | sardine was a failure |
| 10:03.33 | lma | X-Fade: ok, I'll be here |
| 10:03.53 | X-Fade | lma: Let's see if Stskeeps wakes up. |
| 10:04.21 | FIQ | isn't "release early, release often" a key thing with open source? |
| 10:04.27 | *** join/#maemo chittoor (~chittoor@listertech.in) |
| 10:04.27 | *** join/#maemo achipa (~chatzilla@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 10:04.42 | *** join/#maemo mk8 (~torello@ip-212-141.sn1.eutelia.it) |
| 10:04.50 | Stskeeps | X-Fade: mm? |
| 10:05.01 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: Always works ;) |
| 10:05.07 | Stskeeps | sup? |
| 10:05.08 | SpeedEvil | FIQ: Many projects do largely internal releases |
| 10:05.14 | SpeedEvil | FIQ: Look at firefox, for example. |
| 10:05.38 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: lma has time to meet now, you too? |
| 10:05.56 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: Or actually I prefer to have it in an hour so I can get some lunch before it ;) |
| 10:05.58 | SpeedEvil | or - rather - largely internal development till a release. |
| 10:06.02 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre) |
| 10:06.33 | Stskeeps | X-Fade: i'm in a car towards warsaw on a n900, arrifing in 7 hours, so yes, in an hour is fine with me |
| 10:06.47 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: As long as you aren't driving? :) |
| 10:06.47 | timeless_mbp | FIQ: firefox fwiw releases at <6 month intervals |
| 10:06.51 | timeless_mbp | would you call that often? |
| 10:06.56 | timeless_mbp | there happen to be nightlies |
| 10:07.02 | timeless_mbp | but those can be very crashy |
| 10:07.14 | timeless_mbp | and whether those are actually key to anything is questionable |
| 10:07.24 | Stskeeps | X-Fade: wife driving |
| 10:07.32 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: Good ;) |
| 10:07.36 | FIQ | ok, nvm then. :p |
| 10:07.37 | timeless_mbp | there have been some really interesting bug tracking database studies recently |
| 10:07.53 | timeless_mbp | which roughly show that there's a core group of people whose feedback is critical |
| 10:08.02 | timeless_mbp | and then there's a huge group of people who are mostly time-sinks |
| 10:08.16 | Stskeeps | X-Fade: will join #maemo-meeting |
| 10:08.21 | timeless_mbp | if the studies are accurate and predictive and if my interpretation is valid |
| 10:08.35 | viliny_ | sounds like society to me timeless |
| 10:09.00 | timeless_mbp | then one could argue that not releasing nightlies to the general public, but merely releasing them to that core group (which is not called 'core' in the study) would still work |
| 10:09.20 | *** join/#maemo tekojo (~quassel@Maemo/maemo.org/infrastructure/tekojo) |
| 10:09.40 | timeless_mbp | viliny_: well, now there's documented evidence that the virtual world acts like the normal world :) |
| 10:09.48 | *** join/#maemo villemv (~quassel@a88-112-162-4.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 10:10.31 | timeless_mbp | fwiw, i'm a personal believer in release-early-release-often |
| 10:10.36 | timeless_mbp | and mozilla was indeed built upon it |
| 10:10.43 | timeless_mbp | however, i also believe that most users are idiots |
| 10:10.51 | timeless_mbp | and that i don't want idiots wrecking my cellular network |
| 10:11.02 | timeless_mbp | and that i want to be able to make a 911 call when i have an emergency |
| 10:11.15 | SpeedEvil | FIQ: 'nightlies' - you can indeed compile your own apps of the open-source code - there are just no binaries |
| 10:11.16 | timeless_mbp | i do not want my ability to make that call to be hindered by a nearby idiot |
| 10:11.23 | SpeedEvil | timeless: err... |
| 10:11.34 | SpeedEvil | timeless: The cell modem is never going to be opensource. Ever. |
| 10:11.35 | viliny_ | timeless_mbp: i'm an ok guy and i'm mostly friendly. I'm good at bunch of stuff but i honestly don't think i would be an asset to a bughunting project :) |
| 10:11.44 | viliny_ | so i guess i'm an self-aware idiot |
| 10:11.57 | SpeedEvil | timeless: nothing else in the phone can affect cell networks. |
| 10:12.09 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: not quite accurate |
| 10:12.11 | RichardP | timeless_mbp: then shouldnt the cell service provider get their finger out and prevent a single handset from causing issues? |
| 10:12.21 | timeless_mbp | RichardP: that'd be nice |
| 10:12.25 | timeless_mbp | how's it working so far? |
| 10:12.31 | timeless_mbp | points to NYC and London |
| 10:13.19 | *** join/#maemo Termana_n810 (~Bradley@123-3-154-59.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 10:13.20 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: phones can make lots of calls |
| 10:13.24 | SpeedEvil | timeless_mbp: In what manner can a normally operating phone module screw with another one nearby? Other than perhaps using the towers bandwidth, and reducing download speeds? |
| 10:13.25 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 10:13.29 | SpeedEvil | sure. |
| 10:13.32 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 10:13.33 | timeless_mbp | as long as they can do that, then buggy user space can ruin the 911 network |
| 10:13.33 | *** join/#maemo gaveen_ (~gaveen@unaffiliated/gaveen) |
| 10:14.42 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: but please keep in mind, we aren't talking about 'normally operating phones' here |
| 10:14.50 | timeless_mbp | we're talking about abnormal phones |
| 10:14.57 | SpeedEvil | normally operating phone module |
| 10:15.06 | KnightStalker | Someone help me with my mobile =O |
| 10:15.09 | timeless_mbp | your average human probably can't make more than one phone call per 5s, perhaps 10s, maybe longer |
| 10:15.11 | SpeedEvil | I mean - you can't screw with the code running on that platform |
| 10:15.13 | KnightStalker | its killing me... |
| 10:15.36 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: the userspace code can almost certainly start and stop a phone call much faster than a human |
| 10:15.58 | SpeedEvil | timeless: last I played with a cellphone via atd, it was somewhat faster - not enormously faster than 5s |
| 10:16.07 | SpeedEvil | the setup/teardown time was quite long |
| 10:16.55 | SpeedEvil | Admittedly, if you've got a thousand phones in a coverage area all doing that, that would be a problem, but that does seem like quite a stretch. |
| 10:16.56 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: are you willing to accept that most idiots aren't going to sit w/ their phone trying to call and hang up from the 911 operator repeatedly? |
| 10:17.02 | KnightStalker | My mobile says "device storge full bluh bluh" every min |
| 10:17.16 | timeless_mbp | or that if we had such an idiot, we'd be willing to change the label from 'idiot' to 'evil' |
| 10:17.24 | SpeedEvil | And calling 911 is not a bug |
| 10:17.32 | SpeedEvil | It's a feature. |
| 10:17.34 | timeless_mbp | KnightStalker: open xterminal |
| 10:17.35 | timeless_mbp | df -h |
| 10:17.42 | KnightStalker | I already did |
| 10:17.44 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: calling it isn't a bug, sure |
| 10:17.46 | KnightStalker | rootfs is 100% full |
| 10:17.48 | *** join/#maemo Gh0sty (~ghosty@ip-83-134-178-61.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 10:17.54 | *** join/#maemo tekojo (~quassel@Maemo/maemo.org/infrastructure/tekojo) |
| 10:17.55 | timeless_mbp | KnightStalker: well, that's your problem |
| 10:17.59 | timeless_mbp | uninstall some stuff |
| 10:18.01 | SpeedEvil | timeless_mbp: I mean - someone has to add that code intentionally |
| 10:18.08 | KnightStalker | uh? |
| 10:18.12 | SpeedEvil | KnightStalker: disable all repos. |
| 10:18.18 | KnightStalker | Okay =) |
| 10:18.23 | SpeedEvil | KnightStalker: should give you some space while you work something out |
| 10:18.33 | SpeedEvil | KnightStalker: having the repos enabled alone takes several megs |
| 10:18.39 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: buggy code can do all sorts of stuff |
| 10:18.48 | timeless_mbp | going into a loop is something that buggy code does fairly often |
| 10:18.55 | viliny_ | timeless_mbp: i don't really see it as a potential threat that a bunch of n900 would start ddossing 911 |
| 10:19.13 | KnightStalker | timeless_mbp:well actually in the memory section of settings it says I have about 1 gig for applications |
| 10:19.14 | timeless_mbp | the fact that 911 is special cased means that one doesn't need to have code that intentionally tries 'dial 9', 'dial 1', 'dial 1' |
| 10:19.17 | KnightStalker | whats that then? |
| 10:19.18 | *** join/#maemo humis (~humis@xdsl-83-145-207-206.nebulazone.fi) |
| 10:19.31 | timeless_mbp | it can accidentally point to the 'dial_emergency_number()' function |
| 10:19.37 | SpeedEvil | KnightStalker: that's irrelevant |
| 10:19.46 | timeless_mbp | KnightStalker: nokia ui designers being idiots |
| 10:19.49 | timeless_mbp | please ignore them for now |
| 10:19.56 | KnightStalker | lol |
| 10:20.10 | viliny_ | saying idiot more than the smurfs say smurf :) |
| 10:20.12 | timeless_mbp | there are 4 file systems in the n900 |
| 10:20.19 | timeless_mbp | rootfs [OS core] |
| 10:20.38 | timeless_mbp | app overflow [that thing] |
| 10:20.49 | timeless_mbp | visible home |
| 10:20.54 | timeless_mbp | mmc card |
| 10:21.01 | timeless_mbp | the ui only tells you about the last 3 |
| 10:21.03 | KnightStalker | MyDocs = visible home? |
| 10:21.06 | timeless_mbp | yes |
| 10:21.13 | KnightStalker | Got it ;p |
| 10:21.24 | KnightStalker | after diabling repos = 93% @ rootfs |
| 10:21.31 | KnightStalker | what applications consume more rootfs? |
| 10:21.31 | timeless_mbp | now uninstall some stuff :) |
| 10:21.37 | SpeedEvil | tempfs! |
| 10:21.40 | timeless_mbp | there's an app for that :) |
| 10:21.48 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: that isn't visible in the ui we're talking about |
| 10:21.50 | KnightStalker | the name? :D |
| 10:21.56 | *** join/#maemo BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 10:21.57 | timeless_mbp | KnightStalker: *shrug* |
| 10:22.01 | KnightStalker | lol |
| 10:22.07 | SpeedEvil | KnightStalker: Install gnu-find - find / -ctime -20 -size +1000k |
| 10:22.18 | KnightStalker | apt-get? |
| 10:22.32 | timeless_mbp | if you don't have rootsh installed, you'd need to install that first.. |
| 10:22.36 | SpeedEvil | KnightStalker: that will find all files changed under 20 days ago, of over 1000k |
| 10:22.39 | timeless_mbp | (f you want to use apt-get) |
| 10:22.57 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: does that span file systems? |
| 10:23.05 | timeless_mbp | was never very good w/ using 'find' |
| 10:23.13 | SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/findutils-gnu/4.4.2-1maemo4/ |
| 10:23.14 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 10:23.23 | SpeedEvil | yes - you need to find / -mount -ctime... |
| 10:23.30 | SpeedEvil | sorry - not fully woken up yet. |
| 10:23.37 | KnightStalker | and one very very very annoying thing is that my mobile says something is missing when actually apt-get says its alright... |
| 10:23.41 | KnightStalker | I hate that |
| 10:23.53 | timeless_mbp | ? |
| 10:24.01 | SpeedEvil | there are probably better ways to find large packages |
| 10:24.13 | *** join/#maemo Zeddeh (~zeddy@cable-prv-ff67dd00-148.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 10:24.14 | noobmonk3y | frals, git sorted git core installed |
| 10:24.49 | SpeedEvil | Also - if you find a package installing large amounts on / (where large >100k) - then mail the author, enter it in bugtracker, comment on tmo, or tattoo it on your forehead. |
| 10:24.57 | Zeddeh | why do you get kicked for asking about 1.2.. im just confused as the new Nokia Qt SDK requires you have PR 1.2 installed, how should i deploy my applications to the device? |
| 10:25.43 | thresh | you dont. |
| 10:25.46 | timeless_mbp | Zeddeh: this irc channel has publicly available logs |
| 10:25.53 | timeless_mbp | they're linked from the channel topic |
| 10:25.56 | timeless_mbp | you could read them |
| 10:26.04 | timeless_mbp | they're even searchable |
| 10:26.12 | timeless_mbp | you might consider reading some of them as a good investment |
| 10:26.15 | noobmonk3y | meh |
| 10:26.21 | KnightStalker | lol |
| 10:26.36 | Tuukka | reading random spam = good investment? |
| 10:26.44 | frals | noobmonk3y: and now go read git for dummies :D |
| 10:27.10 | noobmonk3y | cries :( |
| 10:27.42 | KnightStalker | frals,noobmonk3y seems to be a noob but not a dummy :P |
| 10:27.55 | noobmonk3y | I r noob - tis true..... |
| 10:28.35 | noobmonk3y | is reading http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/gittutorial.html and crying some more |
| 10:28.49 | KnightStalker | Hmm,have someone tried flashing his n900 to meego? => http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_native_install_on_N900 |
| 10:29.04 | timeless_mbp | noobmonk3y: personally, i'm quite happy using mercurial instead of git :) |
| 10:29.17 | Tuukka | It's just a command line, ain't it? |
| 10:29.18 | noobmonk3y | :| |
| 10:29.57 | Zeddeh | Has anyone gotten qt mobility working on maemo? :> |
| 10:30.11 | KnightStalker | I didn't :P |
| 10:30.18 | lpotter | yup |
| 10:30.24 | Zeddeh | messaging aswell? |
| 10:30.53 | lpotter | didnt try, but i believe the beta is a bit broken for messaging |
| 10:30.54 | Zeddeh | imo the ability to send SMS is pretty damn important |
| 10:30.57 | Zeddeh | and they fail at that. |
| 10:31.02 | noobmonk3y | i think my problem is i dont understand how git helps |
| 10:31.08 | noobmonk3y | it just seems a bit complicated |
| 10:31.11 | timeless_mbp | noobmonk3y: helps do what? |
| 10:31.16 | noobmonk3y | exactly ;) |
| 10:31.23 | timeless_mbp | what problems do you have? |
| 10:31.28 | noobmonk3y | git lol |
| 10:31.32 | Zeddeh | lpotter, have you stumbled upon any forum discussion regarding the matter? I would really like to find people trying to fix the issue :p |
| 10:31.40 | timeless_mbp | git/hg let you work with other people asynchronously |
| 10:31.43 | noobmonk3y | frals asked me to create a git so he could help me with healthcheck |
| 10:31.44 | frals | noobmonk3y: its version control - are you using any other thing to keep track of code changes currently? |
| 10:32.00 | noobmonk3y | a text file and my head |
| 10:32.02 | timeless_mbp | if you've finished step 1 |
| 10:32.07 | timeless_mbp | and are going to work on step 2 |
| 10:32.15 | timeless_mbp | and someone wants to review/fix your step 1 |
| 10:32.19 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@gprs39.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 10:32.20 | timeless_mbp | and you then finish step 2 |
| 10:32.33 | timeless_mbp | and they then finish changing your step 1 |
| 10:32.39 | timeless_mbp | you now have things which are inconsistent |
| 10:32.44 | timeless_mbp | the question is how to deal w/ that |
| 10:32.46 | noobmonk3y | :| |
| 10:32.47 | lpotter | Zeddeh: might be something on forum nokia |
| 10:32.55 | Zeddeh | nope |
| 10:33.01 | Zeddeh | not under qt atleast |
| 10:33.08 | timeless_mbp | noobmonk3y: git/hg make dealing w/ that much easier |
| 10:33.17 | noobmonk3y | ahhh ok, kinda get that |
| 10:33.28 | noobmonk3y | used svn in windows before, that kinda made sense |
| 10:33.33 | noobmonk3y | its probably console v gui |
| 10:33.41 | noobmonk3y | i'm a visual person :P hehe |
| 10:33.51 | timeless_mbp | although you should really have step 01â¦10 and 11â¦20 and someone else should have their own 11...20 |
| 10:34.13 | timeless_mbp | because having only 3 changes where two of them are large / conflicting is always painful |
| 10:34.22 | timeless_mbp | broken up into smaller steps, it's much more managable |
| 10:34.40 | Zeddeh | What i was thinking is why not build the messaging part myself, i just dont know which tool to use in the nokia qt sdk |
| 10:34.43 | timeless_mbp | noobmonk3y: for hg, there's hgtk |
| 10:34.49 | noobmonk3y | hg? |
| 10:34.53 | timeless_mbp | i presume there's something similar for git |
| 10:34.56 | timeless_mbp | hg=mercurial |
| 10:34.59 | noobmonk3y | oh ok |
| 10:35.00 | timeless_mbp | it's a competing vcs |
| 10:35.07 | frals | noobmonk3y: theres gui for windows for git afaik |
| 10:35.08 | timeless_mbp | well, dvcs |
| 10:35.15 | frals | tortoisegit and smth else as well |
| 10:35.46 | Zeddeh | in my symbian sdk i do this |
| 10:35.47 | Zeddeh | C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe /K C:\Qt\symbian\bin\qtenv.bat |
| 10:36.02 | Zeddeh | i cant find anything similar for the sdk :p |
| 10:37.07 | timeless_mbp | Zeddy: i think there's a #maemo-qt or #qt-maemo or something |
| 10:37.22 | timeless_mbp | in general, i'd assume they're in a better position to offer help |
| 10:37.38 | Zeddy | yeah im there aswell |
| 10:38.45 | *** join/#maemo srw (~swo@p54AEE3AF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:38.50 | mece | hey is there a recommended structure on opt? should the app data go under /opt/maemo/<appname> or /opt/<appname> or what? |
| 10:38.54 | Zeddy | that channel is just rather dead when it comes to questions and answers :p |
| 10:39.17 | SpeedEvil | mece: ls -l /opt |
| 10:39.18 | *** join/#maemo tekojo (~quassel@Maemo/maemo.org/infrastructure/tekojo) |
| 10:39.25 | SpeedEvil | mece: Currently it seems rather random |
| 10:39.28 | mece | SpeedEvil, I have all sorts. |
| 10:39.37 | mece | SpeedEvil, it should be decided upon. |
| 10:39.41 | SpeedEvil | Sure |
| 10:39.45 | mece | hmm |
| 10:40.08 | timeless_mbp | mece: fwiw, i found a solution that almost worked |
| 10:40.17 | timeless_mbp | and then i hit a road block |
| 10:40.19 | SpeedEvil | we seem to have /opt/appname/ /opt/producer/appname attempt /opt/attemptatuniqueid/appname/... |
| 10:40.26 | timeless_mbp | so i'm now just going to install both packages |
| 10:40.31 | RichardP | timeless_mbp: what do you mean by london? |
| 10:40.33 | timeless_mbp | and have runtime code figure it out |
| 10:40.33 | SpeedEvil | mece: I would suggest something like java |
| 10:40.34 | mece | timeless_mbp, lol |
| 10:40.43 | mece | SpeedEvil, how does java do it? |
| 10:40.45 | SpeedEvil | mece: /opt/mece.com/yourapp |
| 10:40.56 | mece | SpeedEvil, hmm.. |
| 10:41.00 | SpeedEvil | mece: where the middle bit is a website you control |
| 10:41.20 | mece | SpeedEvil, I don't have one. Well I do but there's not much info there. |
| 10:41.24 | crashanddie | anyone know of any jobs in Europe? More specifically, I'm a security consultant by trade, but have a heavy background in programming. I'd be interested in a tools developer position, or an R&D position where POCs are important. Bonus points if it can be remote |
| 10:41.24 | timeless_mbp | RichardP: http://www.google.com/search?q=carrier%20london%20appologizes |
| 10:41.32 | SpeedEvil | Is there a guarantee that tehre will not be two packages of the same name? |
| 10:41.34 | *** join/#maemo TomaszD (~tom@Maemo/community/contributor/TomaszD) |
| 10:41.47 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: installed at the same time? yes |
| 10:42.18 | mece | SpeedEvil, should be yes. apt would scream angrily if you tried to install something else with same package name |
| 10:42.36 | SpeedEvil | I suppose then that makes packagename a sensible /opt/foo/ |
| 10:43.19 | mece | SpeedEvil, I suppose. There is also the stuff that is symlinked from rootfs. I believe there is some of that under /opt/maemo/ |
| 10:43.26 | Zeddy | i really hope meego and symbian 3 will have a working development environment |
| 10:43.31 | Zeddy | otherwise they will fail |
| 10:43.48 | timeless_mbp | Zeddy: i've setup a build env w/ symbian 3 |
| 10:43.52 | timeless_mbp | it wasn't too painful |
| 10:43.56 | mece | Zeddy, QtSDK looks pretty nice too.. |
| 10:44.01 | timeless_mbp | i mean, i only filed about a dozen bugs trying to set it up |
| 10:44.12 | Zeddy | yes but they never seem to get all parts working |
| 10:44.12 | mece | Zeddy, or was that the one you're having trouble with? |
| 10:44.26 | RichardP | timeless_mbp: thats got sod all to do with a bad phone or app, and everything to do with a crap provider - O2 wasnt geared up for an unlimited data plan and it showed (I had an O2 iPhone from day 1, until about a month ago when I switched to the N900, O2s data plan always sucked, even when you put the iPhone sim card into a different phone) |
| 10:44.31 | mece | timeless_mbp, LOL |
| 10:45.15 | mece | I think I'll go with /opt/appname/ |
| 10:45.49 | timeless_mbp | RichardP: um |
| 10:45.51 | Zeddy | mece: well yes, that too. Im actually developing an app for s60 5th edition, but the mobility -messaging has a bug http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTMOBILITY-64 which makes it impossible to actually send a SMS, it just puts them in the draft folder, so now i decided to try out the Nokia QT SDK and try to deploy my app to maemo, only to find out they left out messaging completely |
| 10:46.00 | alterego | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mobile+operator+apologizes |
| 10:46.00 | timeless_mbp | go read the context? |
| 10:46.04 | Zeddy | one can only imagine my frustration, the deadline would be next monday |
| 10:46.04 | alterego | is link enough |
| 10:47.00 | *** join/#maemo Hurrdurr (~buja@ppp-94-66-25-125.home.otenet.gr) |
| 10:47.01 | timeless_mbp | RichardP: the context was getting operators to not suck |
| 10:47.17 | timeless_mbp | my point is that ⦠it isn't happening |
| 10:47.43 | alterego | Though, that would probably be related to loads of tossers buying an iPhone and saturating the network with their fart app downloads. |
| 10:48.03 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (~mardi_@nat/ibm/x-adijbkwwhqktmnie) |
| 10:48.04 | *** join/#maemo fr01b (~opera@212.30.2.18) |
| 10:48.51 | RichardP | timeless_mbp: but the context has nothing to do with your earlier point - the problem had nothing to do with an individual handset or app |
| 10:49.15 | timeless_mbp | RichardP: it was a response to a local request |
| 10:49.19 | *** join/#maemo Zeddeh (~zeddy@cable-prv-ff67dd00-148.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 10:49.21 | Zeddeh | omfg |
| 10:49.36 | Zeddeh | just love it when my computer reboots in the middle of a 3 hour installation |
| 10:49.44 | RichardP | timeless_mbp: what? |
| 10:50.03 | timeless_mbp | oh brother |
| 10:50.06 | timeless_mbp | now i've missed lunch |
| 10:50.10 | timeless_mbp | blames RichardP |
| 10:50.25 | KnightStalker | Zeddeh: you love that? |
| 10:50.27 | RichardP | timeless_mbp: heh, send me the bill :) (note: i have not offered to pay it, just receive it from you) |
| 10:50.33 | KnightStalker | I would kick the computer |
| 10:50.40 | *** join/#maemo Terje_ (~Terje@esprx02x.nokia.com) |
| 10:51.12 | Zeddeh | KnightStalker, so would i, only i think the rebooting is because of all the hitting |
| 10:51.32 | timeless_mbp | RichardP: jpg from an n900 ok? |
| 10:51.47 | timeless_mbp | considers various options |
| 10:51.59 | Zeddeh | thats what you get when you buy a 800 euro laptop for 100 euro |
| 10:52.05 | RichardP | timeless_mbp: sure, jpg of a £20 note ok in return? |
| 10:52.43 | KnightStalker | W00t @ Zeddeh |
| 10:52.44 | KnightStalker | Any applications like Shazam for n900 just yet? |
| 10:52.55 | timeless_mbp | bah, how about you give me your address and i'll send you the bill w/ a self addressed postage paid envelope inside |
| 10:53.08 | *** join/#maemo Dompie (~Do-m-pie@195-241-24-17.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 10:53.23 | timeless_mbp | has no idea what currency RichardP was using |
| 10:53.36 | *** join/#maemo danielwilms (~dwilms@esprx01x.nokia.com) |
| 10:53.42 | *** part/#maemo fr01b (~opera@212.30.2.18) |
| 10:54.49 | *** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@pd95bc258.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:54.51 | *** join/#maemo fr01b (~opera@212.30.2.18) |
| 10:54.53 | *** join/#maemo dl9pf_ (~quassel@p5B21201E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:55.28 | RichardP | timeless_mbp: GBP was what I was using :) |
| 10:58.06 | PerfDave | RichardP: everybody knows that GIFs of seven-legged spiders are the standard form of payment in e-mail! |
| 10:58.08 | *** join/#maemo Do-m-pie (~Do-m-pie@195-241-24-17.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 10:58.20 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@213.59.86.89) |
| 10:59.09 | BCMM | heh |
| 10:59.55 | TigerTael | lol |
| 11:00.44 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 11:03.13 | *** join/#maemo mgedmin (~mg@Maemo/community/contributor/mgedmin) |
| 11:03.40 | *** join/#maemo albanc (~alban@pasanda.collabora.co.uk) |
| 11:04.48 | *** join/#maemo GNUton-BNC (~gnuton@cs181167085.pp.htv.fi) |
| 11:08.04 | *** join/#maemo NishanthMenon (~nmenon@nat/ti/x-bmuntdrregqrcpuk) |
| 11:08.11 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@93.48.147.100) |
| 11:09.47 | *** join/#maemo KA (~kalfa@pasanda.collabora.co.uk) |
| 11:11.23 | *** join/#maemo Djigorifico_ (~Djigorifi@30-97.kg.ftth.internl.net) |
| 11:16.06 | tybollt | hmnm |
| 11:16.40 | achipa | hm... do I need to depend on maemo-optify or is just 'echo auto > debian/optify' enough ? |
| 11:16.56 | alterego | Hah, poor N900 user dropping his phone down the toilet. pahahaha |
| 11:16.57 | alterego | gutted |
| 11:17.35 | *** join/#maemo rmoravcik1 (~rmoravcik@gtsgw.ttc.cz) |
| 11:17.40 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@wifi-roaming-0-19.nss.udel.edu) |
| 11:19.03 | achipa | ~poke X-Fade |
| 11:19.04 | infobot | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind X-Fade, pokes X-Fade repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
| 11:19.18 | *** join/#maemo kkb1101 (~kkb110@wifi-roaming-0-19.nss.udel.edu) |
| 11:19.34 | KnightStalker | lol |
| 11:20.10 | *** join/#maemo mairas (~mairas@esprx02x.nokia.com) |
| 11:20.18 | KnightStalker | changes the poke message of his bot to infobot's message :D |
| 11:21.14 | *** join/#maemo TigerTael (~tr0n@41-133-217-216.dsl.mweb.co.za) |
| 11:22.16 | achipa | X-Fade: did you change anything with regard to the autobuilder autooptification autoyet ? 'Cause if you haven't I have something interesting for you... |
| 11:23.35 | mece | hey what's the variable for user home directory in a shellscript? |
| 11:23.46 | Khertan | ~ |
| 11:23.48 | Khertan | :) |
| 11:24.02 | mece | Khertan, doh, thanks |
| 11:24.15 | timeless_mbp | $HOME ? |
| 11:24.22 | *** join/#maemo mikki-kun|N900 (~mikki-kun@113.53.36.215) |
| 11:24.32 | mece | $HOME was what I was looking for. |
| 11:24.35 | timeless_mbp | doesn't think of ~ as a variable |
| 11:24.58 | alterego | tmo d\own? |
| 11:24.59 | mece | so how do I concatenate $HOME? I know nothing of shellscripting |
| 11:25.01 | frals | tmo down again ;o |
| 11:25.14 | *** join/#maemo jukey (~jukey@brln-4db8672a.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 11:25.15 | timeless_mbp | mece: $HOME/foo should work |
| 11:25.17 | achipa | he's dead, Jim |
| 11:25.21 | alterego | heh |
| 11:25.22 | timeless_mbp | $HOMEbar will not do what you want |
| 11:25.26 | *** join/#maemo MikeK (~chatzilla@93.164.179.114) |
| 11:25.32 | mece | It's not just you! http://talk.maemo.org looks down from here. |
| 11:25.41 | mece | timeless_mbp, thanks. |
| 11:25.47 | X-Fade | achipa: Meeting atm, will get back to you. |
| 11:25.56 | achipa | X-Fade: np, whenever you have time |
| 11:26.24 | achipa | as for the homebar, that's ${HOME}bar IIRC |
| 11:26.27 | timeless_mbp | http://www.downornot.com/talk.maemo.org |
| 11:26.32 | timeless_mbp | talk.maemo.org is down! |
| 11:26.40 | achipa | OMG ! You don't say ! :) |
| 11:26.51 | alterego | Hah |
| 11:26.58 | mece | will "foo >> $home/.foo/output.txt" create the .foo directory? |
| 11:27.04 | inz | no |
| 11:27.05 | mece | err$HOME |
| 11:27.07 | mece | ok |
| 11:27.13 | timeless_mbp | mece: you need to mkdir first |
| 11:27.19 | alterego | mece: no, |
| 11:27.24 | *** join/#maemo baraujo (~Bruno@189.2.128.130) |
| 11:27.25 | inz | It will create the file though |
| 11:27.35 | alterego | (if the directory exists) ;) |
| 11:27.35 | inz | (given that the directory exists) |
| 11:27.40 | inz | damn |
| 11:27.46 | mece | inx, timeless_mbp, alterego, thanks, and lol :D |
| 11:27.51 | alterego | np |
| 11:27.52 | mece | inz even :P |
| 11:28.05 | alterego | I prefer inx, change your name! :D |
| 11:28.11 | inz | nevar |
| 11:28.45 | mece | would this be appropriate to avoid error messages: mkdir $HOME/.foo/ > /dev/null |
| 11:29.03 | achipa | mece: 2> /dev/null |
| 11:29.08 | mece | oki. |
| 11:29.38 | mece | > gives everything, and 2> just errors? |
| 11:29.44 | achipa | mece: although mkdir -p is probably cleaner |
| 11:29.57 | achipa | mece: > is stdout, 2> is stderr |
| 11:30.10 | mece | i c. |
| 11:30.14 | mece | is there a way to get both? |
| 11:30.27 | *** join/#maemo briglia (~briglia@189.2.128.130) |
| 11:30.52 | mgedmin | yes |
| 11:30.54 | achipa | mece: 2>&1 |
| 11:31.06 | mgedmin | >/dev/null 2>&1 |
| 11:31.18 | mgedmin | ordering is important here |
| 11:32.07 | achipa | The maemo.org - Talk database has encountered a problem. |
| 11:32.19 | Zeddeh | meeeeeh |
| 11:32.31 | SpeedEvil | Oh no! |
| 11:32.37 | SpeedEvil | It might all have been deleted! |
| 11:32.41 | *** join/#maemo pupnik_ (~pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) |
| 11:32.43 | SpeedEvil | The tragedy! |
| 11:33.20 | pupnik_ | 558 nicks... |
| 11:33.38 | MohammadAG_ | morning |
| 11:34.06 | noobmonk3y | morrrrning |
| 11:34.15 | lardman | morning chaps |
| 11:35.00 | noobmonk3y | morrrrrning |
| 11:35.19 | *** join/#maemo pablo2 (~pablo@189.2.128.130) |
| 11:35.32 | *** join/#maemo TomaszD (~tom@Maemo/community/contributor/TomaszD) |
| 11:36.46 | lcuk | morning lardman MohammadAG |
| 11:37.31 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 11:37.35 | timeless_mbp | 2:40pm |
| 11:37.43 | MohammadAG | hey lcuk, lardman, noobmonk3y :) |
| 11:38.43 | frals | o/ |
| 11:39.06 | pupnik_ | i would like an mp3 player that auto-ffwds through music and only plays spoken voices |
| 11:39.08 | MohammadAG | asks lcuk to show timeless_mbp the morning/night thing |
| 11:40.30 | mece | what does "StartupWMClass=appname" in .desktop files do? |
| 11:40.49 | Termana_n810 | good morning MohammadAG, lcuk, lardman, noobmonk3y, et al. |
| 11:40.53 | MohammadAG | why do I feel tmo is crapping out on me Sorry, the forum is unavailable for maintenance. |
| 11:41.00 | timeless_mbp | http://www.google.com/search?q=StartupWMClass |
| 11:41.02 | MohammadAG | hey Termana_n810 |
| 11:41.07 | SpeedEvil | hey all |
| 11:41.13 | lcuk | MohammadAG, timeless knows all about internet time, he just likes to be picky :p |
| 11:41.20 | MohammadAG | lol |
| 11:41.23 | *** join/#maemo murrayc_ (~murrayc@dslb-088-064-086-030.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:41.33 | lcuk | he is afterall, timeless |
| 11:41.33 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu) |
| 11:41.44 | timeless_mbp | http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec-latest.html |
| 11:41.48 | MohammadAG | Good point lmao |
| 11:41.54 | timeless_mbp | If specified, it is known that the application will map at least one window with the given string as its WM class or WM name hint (see the Startup Notification Protocol Specification for more details). |
| 11:43.04 | tybollt | hmm |
| 11:43.16 | timeless_mbp | wonders how to file bugs about freedesktop.org standards |
| 11:43.27 | tybollt | how do I mark a range of photos so that I can mail them or whatever |
| 11:43.33 | *** join/#maemo zs (~zs@188-220-50-10.zone11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 11:43.34 | mece | hmm ok I donä't know how to "map at least one window with the given string as its WM class" so I'll just skip that one. |
| 11:43.52 | *** join/#maemo idx0r (idx@cable-188-2-228-180.dynamic.sbb.rs) |
| 11:43.59 | tybollt | Oh and the maps app in the n900 - what a piece of shit |
| 11:44.29 | achipa | are we acting as a tmo replacement now ? :) |
| 11:44.38 | mece | LOL |
| 11:45.01 | tybollt | I actually tried to use it and man was it ever worthless :) |
| 11:45.26 | MohammadAG | Will Qt get us ovi maps 5.0? |
| 11:46.22 | achipa | is ovi maps 5 written in Qt ? |
| 11:46.36 | mece | is there an ovi maps 5? |
| 11:46.39 | achipa | s/in/with/ |
| 11:47.02 | MohammadAG | meh,you missed the joke |
| 11:47.09 | mece | why the fuck does that s/there/tharr thing ever work for me? |
| 11:47.19 | mece | MohammadAG, aaahaha. Yep. |
| 11:47.44 | mece | err.. s/ever/never |
| 11:47.45 | mece | lol |
| 11:47.47 | mece | I really need it. |
| 11:47.53 | mece | s/need/want |
| 11:47.55 | MohammadAG | mece, you don't know the sintax |
| 11:48.00 | mece | apparently not. |
| 11:48.03 | MohammadAG | s/sintax/syntax/ |
| 11:48.06 | mece | damn |
| 11:48.08 | MohammadAG | :) |
| 11:48.09 | *** join/#maemo mw22 (~chatzilla@195-241-215-77.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 11:48.10 | MohammadAG | last / |
| 11:48.15 | *** join/#maemo pupnik__ (~pupnik@80-186-30-160.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 11:48.15 | mece | s/damn/doh/ |
| 11:48.17 | *** join/#maemo TheNewAndy_ (~andy@60-242-120-238.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 11:48.18 | mece | ahaa |
| 11:48.31 | mece | s/ahaa/I'mAnIdiot |
| 11:48.36 | mece | lol |
| 11:48.37 | zash | mece: trailing / |
| 11:48.45 | MikeK | Hi, I'm getting this error: "/scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: /targets/links/scratchbox.config: No such file or directory" after I upgraded to Ubuntu 10.04 lucid, when I try to build Fennec - any one else seen this? |
| 11:48.46 | zash | s/: /: you need a / |
| 11:48.47 | mece | s/lol/mece is an idiot/ |
| 11:49.07 | mece | thanks :) |
| 11:49.11 | lardman | hi noobmonk3y, MohammadAG, lcuk |
| 11:49.19 | lardman | battles with online expense claim system |
| 11:49.21 | noobmonk3y | well that killed the conversation! |
| 11:49.25 | sECuRE | s/foo/bar |
| 11:49.31 | sECuRE | s/foo\/bar/baz/ |
| 11:49.36 | sECuRE | tses! |
| 11:49.47 | mece | hehe |
| 11:50.57 | *** join/#maemo Erod (~Juno@unaffiliated/erod) |
| 11:53.55 | mece | noobmonk3y, how does your dependencies for healtcheck work on pr1.1.1 when it's qt? |
| 11:54.39 | noobmonk3y | whatcha mean? |
| 11:54.39 | MohammadAG | 4.5.2 maybe |
| 11:54.39 | mece | hmm.. |
| 11:54.40 | mece | well ok.. but it's pyqt |
| 11:54.41 | mece | does pyqt depend on 4.5.2? |
| 11:54.41 | *** part/#maemo idx0r (idx@cable-188-2-228-180.dynamic.sbb.rs) |
| 11:54.41 | noobmonk3y | python2.5, python2.5-qt4-gui, python2.5-qt4-core, python-dbus, python2.5-gtk2, python-location, gstreamer-tools, pulseaudio-utils, python-hildon, pyside-qt4-core, pyside-qt4-gui |
| 11:54.48 | noobmonk3y | those are my dependencies lol |
| 11:55.04 | mece | ok, does pyside-qt4-core work on pr1.1.1? |
| 11:55.14 | noobmonk3y | ahhh dunno :P |
| 11:55.16 | mece | I had a lot of trouble to get that installed on my device. |
| 11:55.30 | noobmonk3y | that i added yesterday so not sure |
| 11:55.34 | Khertan | i ve version 0.2.3 installed |
| 11:55.34 | mece | righty-o. |
| 11:55.52 | mece | Khertan, yeah, but if you have no version installed, how will hammy react? |
| 11:56.15 | Khertan | hum ... force the install from older version with apt |
| 11:56.16 | Khertan | i think |
| 11:56.38 | Khertan | apt-get install pyside-qt4-core=0.2.3 |
| 11:56.47 | Khertan | or something like that |
| 11:57.01 | Khertan | The following packages have been kept back: |
| 11:57.01 | Khertan | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:57.01 | Khertan | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:57.01 | Khertan | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:57.02 | Khertan | 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 23 not upgraded. |
| 11:57.04 | Khertan | ouch |
| 11:57.06 | Khertan | sorry |
| 11:57.09 | Khertan | :) |
| 11:57.27 | Khertan | cannot be upgraded due to depandancies issue |
| 11:57.48 | mece | Khertan, but ok, can you make it depend on an older version then? |
| 11:57.57 | mece | Khertan, to avoid the problem until pr1.2 appears |
| 11:58.26 | achipa | mece: pyside has no qt4.5 version |
| 11:58.32 | *** join/#maemo MAK_ (~MAK@109.107.234.204) |
| 11:58.33 | mece | achipa, righty-o. |
| 11:58.39 | mece | achipa, there is the problem then. |
| 11:59.02 | mece | I'll test this with pyqt4 then. |
| 11:59.16 | Khertan | mece, i fact i'm surely not the better to ask ... as my install was a bit mess |
| 11:59.23 | Khertan | and many think isn't working |
| 11:59.28 | Khertan | like QSyntaxHilight |
| 11:59.44 | Khertan | i'm doing initial dev with PyQt4 currently |
| 12:00.05 | Khertan | and as PySide should be api compatible you will have just the import statement to change |
| 12:00.42 | MAK_ | can i back to pr 1.1 or not plz |
| 12:00.53 | achipa | it will be still a while until that import statement is worth changing |
| 12:01.13 | mece | MAK_, If you ask that, I'm guessing not. |
| 12:01.55 | achipa | (in fact, things being the way they are, I'd say it's quite pointless to switch before Harmattan) |
| 12:01.58 | MAK_ | mece_: so wehn the offical pr 1.2 relased can i upgrade to it normally |
| 12:02.20 | mece | MAK_, I'd think so. I'm guessing you have the leaked firmware? |
| 12:02.58 | *** join/#maemo SWFu (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu) |
| 12:03.05 | SpeedEvil | MAK_: you can go back, but your phone will not work |
| 12:03.07 | SpeedEvil | (to 1.1) |
| 12:03.31 | MAK_ | mece_: because the radio verison upgraded ??? |
| 12:03.33 | mece | SpeedEvil, I'd classify that as "no, you can't" ;) |
| 12:03.58 | SpeedEvil | mece: If it just stopped phone calls, I pretty much wouldn't care. |
| 12:04.11 | SpeedEvil | mece: lack of data would be a dealbreaker though |
| 12:04.18 | mece | SpeedEvil, well you're not normal now are you? ;) |
| 12:04.36 | mece | SpeedEvil, Well 3g data would not work either. |
| 12:04.44 | MAK_ | thnx all |
| 12:05.02 | *** join/#maemo ag0ny (~sascha@khan.procar.de) |
| 12:05.42 | noobmonk3y | oh ffs @Frals :P - phone keeps kicking me off wireless and going over to mms lol |
| 12:06.28 | alterego | Happy star wars day btw |
| 12:06.32 | *** join/#maemo parim (~Pari@pari-win7.wlan.rose-hulman.edu) |
| 12:06.40 | lcuk | may the 4th be with you! |
| 12:06.51 | lcuk | noobmonk3y, try changing the mode |
| 12:07.00 | noobmonk3y | hehehehe |
| 12:07.15 | noobmonk3y | havnt even got fmms working yet lol |
| 12:07.22 | noobmonk3y | well yet - as off this week since reinstall |
| 12:07.26 | lcuk | yet you are getting many mmss |
| 12:07.44 | noobmonk3y | i got 1 a few weeks ago :D |
| 12:08.02 | lcuk | my tongue is still numb |
| 12:08.10 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (~Meizirkki@84-231-7-159.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 12:08.19 | lcuk | but i'd have it numbed again in a heartbeat |
| 12:08.32 | *** join/#maemo Dharmendra (~dbhojwan@59.163.89.69) |
| 12:08.54 | noobmonk3y | :P |
| 12:09.22 | Dharmendra | How to reflash the N900 with production image |
| 12:09.27 | mece | hmm.. no Qt.WA_Maemo5StackedWindow in qt4.5? |
| 12:09.46 | Khertan | mece, nope |
| 12:09.48 | Khertan | qt4.6 |
| 12:09.56 | alterego | mece: There's not realy any mobility stuff in 4.5 no maemo specific stuff, it's all in 4.6 |
| 12:10.00 | Khertan | welcome in the wonderfull world of qt |
| 12:10.00 | Khertan | :) |
| 12:10.26 | mece | noobmonk3y, halp! |
| 12:10.34 | alterego | Khertan: you prefer Hildon? :P |
| 12:10.45 | Khertan | alterego, yes |
| 12:10.46 | Khertan | :) |
| 12:10.53 | *** join/#maemo chenca (~chenca@200.184.118.130) |
| 12:10.55 | alterego | Heh |
| 12:11.40 | Khertan | is trying for the 6th time to write the ubuntu iso to an usb key |
| 12:11.47 | mece | fakkingfrakketycrud! |
| 12:11.56 | *** join/#maemo MikeK (~chatzilla@93.164.179.114) |
| 12:11.57 | alterego | Khertan: worked first time for me ... |
| 12:12.02 | *** join/#maemo Vanadis_Work (~Vanadis_W@cust.static.84-253-9-113.cybernet.ch) |
| 12:12.02 | mece | ok, so it's not possible to get a qt4.6 app to extras, I'm guessing. |
| 12:12.10 | mece | currently. |
| 12:12.15 | Khertan | is tired by wifi problem and no update |
| 12:12.20 | RichardP | cant wait until meego is usable :) |
| 12:12.23 | Khertan | alterego, most of the time too :) |
| 12:13.35 | *** join/#maemo noobmonk3y (~noobmonk3@host86-178-50-44.range86-178.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:13.40 | achipa | mece: you're guessing rught |
| 12:13.45 | noobmonk3y | lol lcuk - that msg killed my xchat |
| 12:14.17 | mece | noobmonk3y, is it possible to do portrait mode and stacked windows in qt4.5, if yes then how? |
| 12:14.36 | noobmonk3y | mece, not in qt |
| 12:14.42 | noobmonk3y | 5.6 you can i think |
| 12:14.42 | Khertan | stacked window can be done by passing the main window as parent |
| 12:14.47 | noobmonk3y | yeah |
| 12:14.54 | noobmonk3y | but wont work in newer qt version :P |
| 12:15.02 | Khertan | but ll not work in qt4.5 |
| 12:15.04 | Khertan | but ll not work in qt4.6 |
| 12:15.14 | mece | Khertan, so simply create a new QMainWindow with old window as parent. |
| 12:15.24 | Khertan | retro compatibility what ? :) |
| 12:15.37 | Khertan | mece, exactly ... but work only for qt4.5 not 4.6 |
| 12:15.38 | Khertan | :) |
| 12:15.50 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 12:16.10 | noobmonk3y | win = HelloWindow(MainWindow) |
| 12:16.10 | noobmonk3y | win.setAttribute(Qt.WA_Maemo5StackedWindow) |
| 12:16.21 | noobmonk3y | ignore the second line in 4.5 |
| 12:16.28 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (~Meizirkki@80-186-55-239.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 12:16.29 | Khertan | this little example annoy me so much that i ll just wait until 4.6 to continue my qt dev :) |
| 12:16.36 | noobmonk3y | lol khertan |
| 12:16.37 | *** join/#maemo guysoft422 (~guysoft@bzq-79-180-53-22.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 12:16.46 | Khertan | i fear that there is many example like this |
| 12:17.00 | Khertan | and when you start learning a new framework it s didn't help you |
| 12:17.33 | Khertan | like the QSyntaxHilght working in pyqt4 not in pyside |
| 12:17.41 | Khertan | and seems broken too on qt4.6 |
| 12:17.43 | Khertan | :) |
| 12:17.54 | alterego | Noice |
| 12:18.02 | noobmonk3y | i needed pyside to fix stackable windows as 4.5 wasnt playing ball |
| 12:18.20 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~Maemohamm@62.219.120.20) |
| 12:18.26 | achipa | ? it does work via the parenting game |
| 12:18.44 | Khertan | achipa, for qt4.5 only |
| 12:18.46 | Khertan | :) |
| 12:19.04 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (~JRocha@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 12:19.09 | Dharmendra | can anybody tell me how to flash N900 |
| 12:19.22 | Khertan | Dharmendra, with a firmware |
| 12:19.28 | Khertan | look at maemo wiki |
| 12:19.35 | Dharmendra | Link plz ? |
| 12:19.35 | achipa | Khertan: no, I'm not talking about that, but pyside vs pyqt |
| 12:19.46 | Khertan | ah sorry |
| 12:20.18 | Khertan | hum ... i don't think how it s really works ... but from what i understand pyside should have same api than pyqt and same result |
| 12:20.25 | Khertan | no the case actually :) |
| 12:20.38 | Khertan | but still beta too |
| 12:20.39 | *** join/#maemo tg (irc@x-net.hu) |
| 12:20.43 | *** join/#maemo radic_ (~radic@178.2.218.218) |
| 12:20.44 | Khertan | so nothing to whine |
| 12:20.56 | Khertan | just as i'm learning qt it s a bit annoying |
| 12:20.57 | Dharmendra | Khertan, can you plz share me the wiki link ? |
| 12:20.59 | *** join/#maemo pupnik_ (~pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) |
| 12:21.16 | mece | Dharmendra, http://wiki.maemo.org/Flashing |
| 12:21.21 | Dharmendra | Thx |
| 12:21.27 | achipa | pyqt is less beta :) but obviously if something is off in qt, then it can megically fix that |
| 12:21.43 | achipa | with pyside it's a double-beta |
| 12:21.45 | achipa | :) |
| 12:21.51 | *** part/#maemo Dharmendra (~dbhojwan@59.163.89.69) |
| 12:21.51 | Khertan | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware |
| 12:22.34 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~fiq@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 12:23.01 | *** join/#maemo yabba (~yabba@YZKCXXIV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 12:23.03 | achipa | s/can/cannot/ |
| 12:23.08 | Khertan | no hi ... no bye ... nice |
| 12:23.13 | Khertan | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:23.15 | Khertan | grr |
| 12:23.45 | tybollt | is guessing the people in here are effectively telling people how to get crax0red/leax0red firmwarew on to an N900 =) |
| 12:24.02 | Khertan | it s seems |
| 12:24.11 | Khertan | but what ... it ll not ask twice |
| 12:24.25 | tybollt | so yes achipa - it seems you folks ARE replacing TMO |
| 12:24.27 | Khertan | the next time after bought an replacement n900 device :) |
| 12:24.30 | MohammadAG | kicks tybollt |
| 12:24.51 | tybollt | go right ahead buddy =) |
| 12:24.53 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 12:24.55 | MohammadAG | that can't be done on tmo :P |
| 12:24.57 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) |
| 12:25.01 | achipa | wait, nobody ranted about MMS yet... |
| 12:25.22 | tybollt | achipa: no fun, there _is_ mms now :( |
| 12:25.37 | *** join/#maemo bigbrovar_ (~bigbrovar@83.229.6.19) |
| 12:25.55 | achipa | flash 10.1 ? |
| 12:25.58 | tybollt | bastard frals - taking away our reasons to whinge :-( |
| 12:26.43 | pupnik | yeah exactly. providing solutions. what is he thinking.. :) |
| 12:27.00 | MohammadAG | slap him with a trout! |
| 12:27.24 | achipa | pfft, next you're going to tell me somebody did a portrait SMS app... oh, wait... |
| 12:28.20 | alterego | Heh |
| 12:28.28 | alterego | I'm liking the look of that app actually. |
| 12:28.46 | *** join/#maemo GuySoft (~guysoft@bzq-79-180-53-22.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 12:32.08 | yabba | yeah, now you can write sms again while you drive... except I think it still illegal to do so |
| 12:33.34 | *** join/#maemo The_Tall1 (~A@p50814325.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:33.45 | *** join/#maemo otubo (~otubo@201.82.68.121) |
| 12:34.06 | alterego | I tell you what though, the Qt SDK simulator is awful .. |
| 12:34.36 | alterego | I don't like the way the menubar is not in the UI |
| 12:34.44 | *** join/#maemo z4chh (~zach@dhcp-128-194-74-64.resnet.tamu.edu) |
| 12:35.16 | alterego | I'm guessing it's just a window, which hasa themed frame as the actual device .. |
| 12:35.28 | alterego | Doesn't even theme it :( |
| 12:35.30 | *** join/#maemo smaug (~chatzilla@cs181150024.pp.htv.fi) |
| 12:35.42 | timeless_mbp | yabba: that's a regional issue |
| 12:36.32 | asj | alterego: so you're saying engadget is wrong? |
| 12:37.30 | alterego | asj: wrong about what? |
| 12:37.40 | *** join/#maemo anssias (~anssi@s1.ims.fi) |
| 12:37.47 | asj | alterego: the Qt SDK is the most adorable thing they've seen out of Nokia |
| 12:38.00 | asj | err, SDK simulator |
| 12:38.08 | alterego | Really ... |
| 12:38.40 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 12:38.41 | asj | ayup |
| 12:39.31 | asj | anyways, bed time, work starts in < 10 hour, wtf |
| 12:39.37 | alterego | Well, I think it's pretty awful, though, I could be doing something wrong .. |
| 12:40.39 | lcuk | alterego, is it better than the old one? |
| 12:41.19 | mece | oh well. I'll just go for pyside and qt4.6.2 and go for extras once pr1.2 is out. |
| 12:41.23 | alterego | Do you mean better than scratchbox? Erm, maybe it will be, but I think scratchbox is far better, though there is obviously a great deal of difference between a simulator and an emulator in this case. |
| 12:41.32 | alterego | mece: good choice ;) |
| 12:42.02 | Khertan | To qt developpers ... what is the best way to implement an "pseudo" auto indentation on a QTextEdit, currently i ve subclass it and test if it s a return key in the keyPressEvent but it s a bit slow |
| 12:42.05 | Khertan | any idea ? |
| 12:42.22 | *** join/#maemo maddler_ (~maddler@nopal.komputika.net) |
| 12:42.22 | *** join/#maemo msanchez (~msanchez@233.13.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 12:42.31 | maddler_ | howdy |
| 12:42.32 | alterego | Khertan: to #qt developers. :P |
| 12:42.45 | Khertan | alterego, oh yes ... true |
| 12:42.46 | Khertan | :) |
| 12:43.13 | lcuk | got redirected from #qt to #qt-creator for a question last night |
| 12:43.15 | alterego | Not sure why your method is slow though, seems a pretty logical implementation choice.; |
| 12:43.22 | lcuk | but then got a mirrored answer in both :) |
| 12:43.27 | alterego | Heh |
| 12:43.36 | Khertan | :) |
| 12:44.27 | *** join/#maemo edisson (~edisson@189.2.128.130) |
| 12:44.58 | *** join/#maemo reggna (~reggna@c-ccab72d5.015-28-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 12:45.59 | achipa | mece: just out of curiousity, what works for you better in pyside under 4.6 than in pyqt ? |
| 12:47.58 | alterego | The LGPL? :D |
| 12:49.51 | achipa | alterego: GPL vs GPL an obstacle for Extras ? |
| 12:50.10 | achipa | GPL vs LGPL |
| 12:50.19 | anssias | i couldnt find repo for erminig-ng. is there one? |
| 12:50.21 | alterego | I wasn't being serious achipa |
| 12:50.36 | alterego | I would hope PySide is better supported and more heavily developed. |
| 12:50.41 | alterego | That would be my reasoning. |
| 12:51.19 | Khertan | currently i got a maemo theme in a qtextview with pyside (rounded corner) and not with pyqt |
| 12:52.12 | achipa | alterego: I wouldn't be surprised seeing PyQt switch to LGPL when PySide gets anywhere near a completed state |
| 12:52.24 | achipa | alterego: at which point it's a lot ado about nothing |
| 12:52.44 | *** join/#maemo tekojo (~quassel@Maemo/maemo.org/infrastructure/tekojo) |
| 12:53.38 | achipa | and Maemo missed a year's worth of python/qt apps... but I digress |
| 12:53.50 | *** join/#maemo dfl (~Miranda@nat1.academ.org) |
| 12:54.22 | achipa | the bottom line is that today, paradoxical as that might sound, PyQt has better support for Maemo 5 than PySide does |
| 12:55.25 | *** join/#maemo gaveen (~gaveen@unaffiliated/gaveen) |
| 12:55.50 | Khertan | achipa, better support isn't exactly what i say ... as not real maemo theme ... but true, works better |
| 12:55.51 | Khertan | :) |
| 12:56.21 | *** join/#maemo tonikitoo (~tonikitoo@189.2.128.130) |
| 12:56.35 | achipa | Khertan: pyside doesn't even support the Maemo5 classes yet under shiboken |
| 12:57.03 | Khertan | achipa, i didn't look so far yet in qt ... just the basics so i didn't see that :) |
| 12:57.17 | achipa | hence my surprise of mece's enthusiasm of going for Extras with PySide... |
| 12:59.34 | *** join/#maemo the_lord (~david@201.208.252.64) |
| 12:59.38 | *** join/#maemo jonne|reconnecte (~jonne@225.234-246-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 12:59.56 | the_lord | Hi! |
| 13:00.27 | the_lord | I want to install about 3-4 apps that need libqt4 or something of qt4 |
| 13:02.03 | the_lord | how can I install those deps? |
| 13:02.29 | andre__ | the_lord, exactly define "something" first |
| 13:02.52 | the_lord | andre__, libqt4* |
| 13:02.59 | the_lord | python-qt4* |
| 13:03.15 | andre__ | and now please drop the * and be exact |
| 13:03.37 | the_lord | let me search for the deps of one of them |
| 13:04.01 | Khertan | andre__, the answer is the same for all python-qt4* depandancies |
| 13:04.09 | Khertan | wait pr1.2, isn't it ? |
| 13:04.19 | andre__ | *most* probably yes |
| 13:04.39 | the_lord | Khertan, but I want them now :P |
| 13:04.39 | Khertan | ah hum maybe force install of old version |
| 13:04.40 | andre__ | but can also be "don't use 4.5" |
| 13:04.42 | Po0ky | .w 4 |
| 13:05.20 | *** join/#maemo parim (~Pari@pari-win7.dhcp.rose-hulman.edu) |
| 13:05.24 | *** join/#maemo Mace_N900 (~mace@m065e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 13:05.37 | Mace_N900 | hm |
| 13:05.51 | Mace_N900 | why does the gps seem to take forever to get a lock? |
| 13:05.58 | the_lord | espeakcaller, needs libqt4-core and libqtgui |
| 13:06.12 | Mace_N900 | it screws up my cam geotagging |
| 13:06.13 | tybollt | Mace_N900: do you allow it to connect to the network? |
| 13:06.22 | MohammadAG | the_lord, they're in 1.2 |
| 13:06.32 | Mace_N900 | is there a specific option for that? |
| 13:06.36 | the_lord | Mace_N900, maybe you are not using triangulation via your provider |
| 13:06.43 | MohammadAG | Mace_N900, it takes 5 seconds here |
| 13:07.20 | lardman | I must say I wasn't impressed with Map's update time when I was walking around Bristol, with data, the other day |
| 13:07.24 | the_lord | MohammadAG, I know, but I don't know when pr1.2 will come |
| 13:07.32 | lardman | but that's probably Map being crap rather than the AGPS |
| 13:07.35 | Mace_N900 | i have network positioning on |
| 13:07.35 | andre__ | see subject of channel |
| 13:07.52 | the_lord | andre__, I'm not asking for it |
| 13:07.55 | Mace_N900 | is there some other server i should be using for tmobile? |
| 13:08.20 | Khertan | probably ... |
| 13:08.28 | Mace_N900 | right now it is set to the default supl.nokia.com |
| 13:08.38 | lardman | Mace_N900: using the supl.nokia.com (iirc) one? |
| 13:08.44 | MohammadAG | the_lord, tbh no@one knows |
| 13:08.45 | andre__ | the_lord, nobody knows a date. that's all. |
| 13:08.46 | Khertan | i know that sfr block other server and force user to use the sfr one |
| 13:08.54 | Mace_N900 | lardman, yes |
| 13:09.02 | lardman | Khertan: oh right |
| 13:09.02 | MohammadAG | s/@/\ |
| 13:09.08 | Mace_N900 | it is set to that by default |
| 13:09.10 | achipa | the_lord: disable extras-devel, install pyqt, and you're good to go |
| 13:09.14 | tybollt | uhm what |
| 13:09.19 | lardman | Mace_N900: I use that with Vodafone, should work fine I guess |
| 13:09.21 | the_lord | MohammadAG, I know, but there's got to be a way to install them |
| 13:09.26 | Mace_N900 | hm |
| 13:09.32 | MohammadAG | libqt4-maemo5-* |
| 13:09.33 | Khertan | vodafone is sfr |
| 13:09.37 | tybollt | do network operators block suppl.nokia.com? |
| 13:09.38 | Mace_N900 | maybe it needs to download the sat data |
| 13:09.45 | the_lord | achipa, I use some apps from devel |
| 13:09.49 | *** join/#maemo TigerTael (~tr0n@41-133-217-216.dsl.mweb.co.za) |
| 13:09.51 | Mace_N900 | i doubt it |
| 13:09.51 | andre__ | tybollt, in which country and which operator? |
| 13:09.51 | lardman | Khertan: works for me afaict in the UK |
| 13:09.52 | timeless_mbp | tybollt: i've heard rumors that some do |
| 13:10.01 | Mace_N900 | hm |
| 13:10.08 | tybollt | timeless_mbp: that's ... wow :-| |
| 13:10.09 | Mace_N900 | i wonder if tmob does |
| 13:10.14 | alterego | vodafone block me getting map images for the location widget |
| 13:10.15 | achipa | the_lord: it doesn't matter - just don't install the pyqt from extras-devel as that one is for PR1.2 |
| 13:10.17 | tybollt | timeless_mbp: how bloody anal can they get? :S |
| 13:10.18 | timeless_mbp | tybollt: not internally |
| 13:10.20 | Khertan | lardman, ah... maybe this are specifics for this stupid french people |
| 13:10.23 | alterego | Which is annoying, but AGPS works fine for me through voda |
| 13:10.27 | achipa | the_lord: you can re-enable it after isntalling |
| 13:10.32 | timeless_mbp | from memory it was a maemo owner who indicated it |
| 13:10.42 | lardman | Khertan: perhaps, if so sorry to hear that |
| 13:10.46 | Mace_N900 | hm |
| 13:11.00 | Mace_N900 | does the phone use the internet for sat data? |
| 13:11.03 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 13:11.06 | *** join/#maemo SimonLR (~hawaii@24.138.121.254) |
| 13:11.13 | Khertan | operator : sfr , country : france ... |
| 13:11.22 | lardman | Mace_N900: for assistance to improve the lock speed, yes it can |
| 13:11.26 | Mace_N900 | instead of downloading it from the 300bps sat |
| 13:11.32 | lardman | and indeed it needs to to get a decent lock speed |
| 13:11.33 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (~mardi_@nat/ibm/x-uehomylqowsylxkp) |
| 13:11.35 | Mace_N900 | lardman, yeah |
| 13:11.41 | Mace_N900 | thats what i mean |
| 13:11.44 | Khertan | contract : unlimited internet (restricted to http, https and 500Mb by month) |
| 13:11.45 | lardman | yep |
| 13:11.51 | Mace_N900 | hm |
| 13:11.52 | tybollt | timeless_mbp: I meant internally |
| 13:12.05 | Mace_N900 | does this geotagging do it by default? |
| 13:12.16 | Mace_N900 | or the built in stuff? |
| 13:12.22 | Mace_N900 | i still havent locked yet |
| 13:12.32 | Khertan | but we can use the sfr server which seems working too with n900 ... |
| 13:12.40 | the_lord | achipa, how do I install a old version of a package using apt-get ? |
| 13:12.43 | lardman | Mace_N900: everything uses the liblocation library, so they will all use assistance to get a lock |
| 13:12.44 | *** join/#maemo tekojo (~quassel@192.100.124.156) |
| 13:12.44 | *** join/#maemo tekojo (~quassel@Maemo/maemo.org/infrastructure/tekojo) |
| 13:12.49 | Mace_N900 | hm |
| 13:12.55 | Mace_N900 | ok then. weird |
| 13:12.56 | the_lord | even better, how do I know the available versions? |
| 13:13.13 | Mace_N900 | well. let me stick it on a roof or something |
| 13:13.19 | lardman | Mace_N900: but the repeat interval can be set by each app individually iirc |
| 13:13.21 | achipa | the_lord: apt-get install package=oldversionnumber |
| 13:13.29 | Mace_N900 | hm |
| 13:13.35 | lardman | so if it fails it needn't try again immediately... I think |
| 13:13.46 | Mace_N900 | i see |
| 13:13.47 | achipa | the_lord: but that will probably not work because of dependencies |
| 13:13.53 | Mace_N900 | ok. i will figure it out |
| 13:14.04 | Mace_N900 | bacause my pics dont have geotagging on them |
| 13:14.17 | achipa | the_lord: really, your best bet is to install without extras-devel, I'm not saying that for kicks |
| 13:14.17 | lardman | Mace_N900: that can be disabled in the app settings |
| 13:14.40 | mtnbkr | anyon else notice that alarms on the N900 work even if it is OFF. It 'wakes' and sounds the alarm clock... Nice feature, but a little concerning for us tinfoil hat wearers :) |
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| 13:15.17 | achipa | mtnbkr: it's called RTC, and is in every computer and phone since like, at least 20 years ago |
| 13:15.46 | lardman | achipa: unless you have a 770 where it rolls over every 60min or so hey? ;) |
| 13:15.50 | alterego | More than 20 years ago :) |
| 13:15.58 | Mace_N900 | ah well.. ok |
| 13:16.00 | lardman | (or something like that anyway) |
| 13:16.00 | alterego | More like 25 years ago |
| 13:16.01 | Mace_N900 | thanks |
| 13:16.07 | achipa | lardman: details ! :D |
| 13:16.14 | lardman | achipa: :) |
| 13:16.22 | achipa | 25, 25 , do I hear a 30 ? |
| 13:16.27 | alterego | :) |
| 13:16.30 | alterego | 30! |
| 13:16.35 | alterego | Just kidding :D |
| 13:17.01 | TigerTael | mtnbkr, that's what I love most about it! |
| 13:17.07 | achipa | hey, I still recall the RTC being an upgrade for Amiga users ! |
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| 13:19.44 | alterego | I remember my dad hacking the RTC on an Acorn A3000 to switch a relay to turn the A3000 on and it loaded a program off of a floppy which downloaded all the share prices from a teletext decoder. |
| 13:19.50 | alterego | To this day that machine is still running .. |
| 13:19.59 | alterego | He's probably got about 15 years of stock info. |
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| 13:23.52 | tybollt | alecrim: what exchange? |
| 13:24.27 | tybollt | s/alecrim/alterego/ |
| 13:25.33 | pupnik | neat -- someone is running gimp thru autobuilder |
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| 13:28.55 | the_lord | achipa, excellent, I disabled devel, but the apps I want are there :P |
| 13:29.07 | the_lord | I guess I'm screwed til pr 1.2 |
| 13:29.21 | tybollt | pupnik: I'd rather have a paint application :-| |
| 13:30.03 | achipa | the_lord: which apps exactly are we talking about here ? |
| 13:30.19 | the_lord | espeakcaller, for instance |
| 13:30.27 | the_lord | koffice is another one |
| 13:31.01 | achipa | okay, koffice is unrelated to pyqt, you need pr1.2 for that one |
| 13:31.13 | achipa | but for espeakcaller, do what I said |
| 13:31.18 | achipa | disable extras-devel |
| 13:31.20 | achipa | install pyqt |
| 13:31.24 | achipa | enable extras-devel |
| 13:31.25 | alterego | tybollt: FTSE |
| 13:31.31 | alterego | Probably more, I don't know off hand. |
| 13:31.31 | achipa | install whatever you need |
| 13:31.33 | achipa | ... |
| 13:31.35 | achipa | profit |
| 13:31.37 | achipa | etc etc |
| 13:32.18 | the_lord | achipa, espeakcaller is _in_ devel |
| 13:32.35 | achipa | let me be more specific |
| 13:32.42 | achipa | 1. disable extras-devel |
| 13:32.44 | achipa | 2. install pyqt |
| 13:32.51 | achipa | 3. enable extras-devel |
| 13:32.56 | achipa | 4. install espeakcaller |
| 13:33.03 | achipa | done |
| 13:34.07 | the_lord | achipa, hmm, let me try that |
| 13:34.26 | achipa | the point is just that you don't want espeakcaller to auto-install the newest pyqt in extras-devel |
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| 13:37.34 | the_lord | why the catalog list in the app manager takes so long to populate> |
| 13:37.35 | the_lord | ? |
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| 13:38.42 | Khertan | because there is also old lib in extras-devel |
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| 13:44.11 | zomg | I'm trying to compile the maemobrowser example from Qt 4.6 to run on my N900, but I keep getting a symbol lookup error for QAbstractKineticScroller |
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| 13:44.47 | zomg | What exactly could be the problem here? It runs fine in scratchbox |
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| 13:45.01 | pupnik | plenty of things to do for mypaint tybollt |
| 13:45.14 | achipa | zomg: and what version of Qt do you have on your device ? |
| 13:45.24 | the_lord | achipa, how do I know which apps are installed in / ? |
| 13:45.27 | zomg | achipa: I installed maesheep from extras-devel which as far as I know should install 4.6 |
| 13:45.34 | the_lord | I have no space left on device |
| 13:46.16 | zomg | achipa: using apt-cache show libqt4-core says 4.5.whatever though, so I'm not quite sure if it's installed correctly |
| 13:46.55 | X-Fade | achipa: So, you had an idea? |
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| 13:49.55 | achipa | whoa, traffic :) |
| 13:50.09 | achipa | X-Fade: well, a question first: |
| 13:51.55 | achipa | X-Fade: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/abiword/2.8.1-2/ |
| 13:52.18 | zomg | achipa: so any ideas for my prob? I'm really just beginning with this maemo stuff so it could be some very elementary mistake on my part =) |
| 13:52.19 | achipa | I upped this, has debian/optify -> auto, and yet the autobuilder ignored it |
| 13:53.06 | X-Fade | achipa: Hmm strange. |
| 13:53.10 | X-Fade | Let me check the logs. |
| 13:53.12 | alterego | Okay, maybe I was a little hard on the simulator earlier, I might have to come up with a development strategy that uses the sim for lightweight testing, then moves to scratchbox and then moves to device. |
| 13:53.21 | achipa | zomg: the Qt4.6 installed with maesheep is a different package, it's not a replacement for PR1.2 |
| 13:53.43 | alterego | That is until the sim properly matures. |
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| 13:53.56 | zomg | achipa: so is there any docs on how to actually make it work? |
| 13:54.05 | zomg | the sdk docs and whatever I can google aren't very helpful at all |
| 13:54.20 | achipa | zomg: the simple solution is to wait for PR1.2 |
| 13:54.35 | zomg | Sorry but that won't do =) |
| 13:54.40 | zomg | Unless it's due out tomorrow |
| 13:54.41 | zomg | or so |
| 13:55.09 | achipa | zomg: the hard way, which does work, is to downgrade your qt packages in the SDK |
| 13:55.26 | achipa | zomg: and use libqt4-maemo5 to build your app |
| 13:55.47 | zomg | So that would work for 4.6 stuff? We are developing specifically for 4.6 |
| 13:56.26 | achipa | zomg: yes it would work UNTIL pr1.2 (I told you, it's the hard way) |
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| 13:57.13 | zomg | Okay, sounds good enough =) Thanks |
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| 13:57.24 | achipa | np |
| 13:59.19 | pablo2 | Is it possible turn on /off the flash camera in n900? using gstreamer or dbus |
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| 14:03.49 | alterego | pablo2: do you mean turn on the flash light for the main camera? |
| 14:04.20 | pablo2 | alterego, ys |
| 14:04.52 | X-Fade | achipa: Why do you use dates in the future in your changelog btw? |
| 14:05.45 | achipa | X-Fade: errare humanum est ? my dchg-or-whatsitcalled is broken so I resorted to manually poking it.. |
| 14:06.14 | achipa | X-Fade: don't tell me THAT broke it ? :S |
| 14:06.27 | alterego | pablo2: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Flash_Torch |
| 14:07.03 | X-Fade | achipa: No, that should not matter. in the builder at least. |
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| 14:07.31 | pablo2 | alterego, thanks |
| 14:07.57 | alterego | pablo2: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=flashlight-appl;a=tree;f=src;h=2bad4d4db2e419afc4ec97b3082818cb746bc516;hb=HEAD |
| 14:08.02 | alterego | That may be of more help |
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| 14:09.09 | RST38h | moo all |
| 14:09.18 | alterego | Moo to you too RST38h |
| 14:09.27 | achipa | re-moo |
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| 14:11.20 | Termana | RST38h, baaaaa |
| 14:11.24 | Termana | oh sorry wrong animal |
| 14:11.25 | Termana | :P |
| 14:12.24 | RST38h | PR1.2?!? |
| 14:12.27 | RST38h | hides |
| 14:12.54 | MohammadAG_ | tis getting old |
| 14:12.55 | MohammadAG_ | :P |
| 14:12.59 | alterego | Heh |
| 14:13.01 | alterego | Where?!?!?! |
| 14:13.09 | alterego | Gawd, there goes another week :P |
| 14:13.27 | TigerTael | I can't wait for 1.2 to come... stop all these bloody people asking for it. |
| 14:14.09 | X-Fade | achipa: I have no idea why it didn't run. You can also try to add maemo-optify in your debian/rules |
| 14:14.17 | TigerTael | Then we can have a bit of calm before they start crying about PR1.3 |
| 14:14.29 | cato` | we need a 1.2.1 |
| 14:14.32 | X-Fade | achipa: But otherwise ask on -developers, Marius might know. |
| 14:15.19 | achipa | X-Fade: same thing happened with gsfonts... though I later on realized that might have been a mistake to upload at all |
| 14:15.56 | Veggen_ | actually, as long as the current maemo branch is a dead end, I'd much rather like Nokia to focus on getting MeeGo based os running....and to suppoer it on N900, preferably. |
| 14:16.22 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (~kvirc@140.84-49-128.nextgentel.com) |
| 14:16.34 | achipa | X-Fade: does it make any difference that I uploaded this via scp -> drop.maemo.org (prolly not) |
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| 14:18.39 | X-Fade | achipa: No, it should run in the last part of the build phase. |
| 14:20.11 | MohammadAG_ | Stskeeps, is there any way to press enter on mer? |
| 14:20.22 | MohammadAG_ | (specifically X Terminal on it) |
| 14:21.32 | Stskeeps | ctrl-m |
| 14:21.45 | Stskeeps | (yes, this is the 80s) |
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| 14:27.09 | MohammadAG_ | Stskeeps, thanks! |
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| 15:06.12 | kroll | say hey |
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| 15:38.22 | an0therb0x | help please what is the default lock code for the n900 ? |
| 15:38.39 | SpeedEvil | 21345 |
| 15:38.40 | SpeedEvil | 124345 |
| 15:38.43 | SpeedEvil | sighs. |
| 15:38.45 | SpeedEvil | 12345 |
| 15:38.51 | SpeedEvil | It's in the manual. |
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| 15:39.02 | SpeedEvil | Which is deeply unhelpful to normal people. |
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| 15:40.35 | an0therb0x | SpeedEvil: 12345 did not work .. damn i am screwed now |
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| 15:43.41 | an0therb0x | please help how do i factory reset the n900 since i have forgotten the lock code ? |
| 15:44.03 | pupnik | give it back to the guy you stole it from? |
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| 15:44.51 | an0therb0x | pupnik: its mine ... i pressed the power button and selected "secure device" now i can't get back in |
| 15:45.12 | pupnik | :/ maybe someone knows |
| 15:45.40 | alterego | an0therb0x: did you set the lock code? Or is it still default? |
| 15:45.43 | javispedro | that means you put in a code |
| 15:45.57 | javispedro | if it were the default it would have asked to change it the first time you press secure device. |
| 15:46.31 | alterego | In which case, have you tried the common boring codes like 1 2 3 4 5 |
| 15:46.43 | an0therb0x | yeah i have only one code which is what i use whenever i power cycle |
| 15:46.52 | an0therb0x | but that code no longer works |
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| 15:47.03 | javispedro | that probably is the sim's pin. |
| 15:47.05 | alterego | an0therb0x: you mean the sim lock? |
| 15:47.12 | alterego | The lock code is 5 digits usually .. |
| 15:47.24 | alterego | Have you tried adding adigit like 0 to the end or seotmhing you might have done? |
| 15:47.36 | noobmonk3y | 12345 is the default isnt it? |
| 15:47.50 | alterego | Well, that's what I use :P |
| 15:48.11 | alterego | I use the word "use" loosely ;) |
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| 15:48.18 | noobmonk3y | lol |
| 15:48.37 | alterego | Right, nome time, see you all on the other side ... |
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| 15:49.21 | an0therb0x | damn this is not cool ...12345 does not work and my "original" lock code does not work as well |
| 15:52.57 | javispedro | the good news is that you should be able to get it back -- the bad news is that the only way I know requires deleting some data. |
| 15:53.20 | javispedro | A Nokia Care center should be able to do it also, btw. |
| 15:55.08 | Stskeeps | with proof of ownership you can prolly ask them |
| 15:56.23 | reggna | Is there any way for me to import ALL of my calendars from Google Calendar to my N900? |
| 15:57.02 | timeless_mbp | reggna: you should be happy if you manage to get some of your data from ONE of your calendars |
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| 15:57.24 | timeless_mbp | google sync support was not an advertised feature |
| 15:58.01 | reggna | Is there any improvement on this? Or is it a lost cause? |
| 15:58.23 | timeless_mbp | 1.2 should be better than 1.1.1 |
| 15:58.42 | timeless_mbp | but even there i wouldn't expect better than the happiness i describe above |
| 15:58.50 | timeless_mbp | there's a third party which offers a turnkey solution |
| 15:58.57 | timeless_mbp | you could consider them |
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| 15:59.37 | reggna | timeless_mbp: Where can I find them or there software? |
| 16:01.07 | crashanddie | their |
| 16:01.51 | timeless_mbp | nuevasync |
| 16:02.35 | timeless_mbp | they're a good group and iirc contribute to open source, but they have a business model |
| 16:02.41 | timeless_mbp | (so does nokia fwiw, although far be it for me to understand nokia's) |
| 16:02.46 | reggna | Thank you. |
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| 16:07.40 | timeless_mbp | note that i'm not affiliated w/ them and haven't used their software, so no warranty, but it might work |
| 16:07.50 | timeless_mbp | and they're certainly much more responsive than ms or nokia :/ |
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| 16:15.50 | an0therb0x | i believe a recent package update is causing issues with the n900 lock code |
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| 16:18.02 | pupnik | if so, maybe someone else will report the same problem an0therb0x |
| 16:18.27 | javispedro | which package |
| 16:18.30 | C-S-B | so did anyone flash the hacked 1.2? |
| 16:18.38 | javispedro | feel free to point fingers cause this would be a very important topic. |
| 16:19.04 | noobmonk3y | lols |
| 16:19.34 | javispedro | has brief romance with hp tc1100 |
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| 16:23.23 | Jaffa | Best comment of the day: "Was diablo officially discontinued by Nokia?" |
| 16:23.30 | Jaffa | He needs a "Fixed in Fremantle" t-shirt |
| 16:24.39 | pupnik | javispedro: how does the device feel? top-heavy in laptop mode? |
| 16:25.04 | javispedro | feels like a 800-page book, a bit heavy indeed. |
| 16:25.08 | javispedro | must be +1kg |
| 16:25.29 | konttori | C-S-B: I have ... 5 weeks ago ;) |
| 16:25.39 | C-S-B | you liking it? |
| 16:25.52 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (~quassel@p57A14BF3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:26.10 | konttori | Well, not so much, there were some grave issues (which is why it's not released) still on that release |
| 16:26.22 | javispedro | giggles |
| 16:26.58 | konttori | Hey, I have moved now officially away from fremantle. The amount of coordination needed is slowing down and I moved to Harmattan yesterday. |
| 16:27.15 | konttori | The teams now know what they are working next, and my involvement is not needed anymore. |
| 16:27.52 | javispedro | oh, that's bad news -- I loved the way you handled it. |
| 16:27.56 | konttori | I am now pushing 50% of my time to something I cant tell, and the rest 50% on improving our 3rd party developer maemo API story. |
| 16:28.58 | furunk3l | buibui |
| 16:29.01 | *** join/#maemo parim (~Pari@pari-win7.dhcp.rose-hulman.edu) |
| 16:29.37 | microlith | "grave issues" isn't good to hear :/ |
| 16:29.39 | konttori | On the maemo API, my immediate focus points are atm on making sure extension points have been defined (or will be), so that we are catering well enough also non-libMeegoTouch applications/extensions |
| 16:30.01 | konttori | microlith: always on the last days/weeks there are only grave issues left (and found). |
| 16:30.11 | *** join/#maemo yabba (~yabba@ZYYMMCMLXXXVII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:30.12 | konttori | of it would be minor, the release would be made immediately |
| 16:30.22 | konttori | nobody will delay a release for a minor issue. |
| 16:30.36 | microlith | understandably |
| 16:31.45 | konttori | and often, the grave issues are related to long period usage, which tends to mean that it will only be really found when testing is continuing longer. Or, e.g. SSU issues can sometimes only be found when enough volume of devices is used to test upgrades from weird 1.1.1 configurations (and states) to the latest and greatest. |
| 16:32.21 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (~alehorst@187.112.130.138) |
| 16:32.22 | pupnik | konttori: those words would be well put to T.M.O. to help stop the whinging |
| 16:32.28 | noobmonk3y | ;) |
| 16:32.31 | noobmonk3y | i agree |
| 16:32.35 | *** join/#maemo Pavlov (~pavlov@shell.off.net) |
| 16:32.41 | microlith | so there's a good chance all these "early adopters" will hit these >.> |
| 16:32.54 | noobmonk3y | blinks |
| 16:33.33 | *** join/#maemo nsuffys (~sabayon5@76.254.146.195.dynamic.adsl.abo.nordnet.fr) |
| 16:33.53 | *** part/#maemo parim (~Pari@pari-win7.dhcp.rose-hulman.edu) |
| 16:34.04 | noobmonk3y | wohooooooooo |
| 16:34.20 | *** join/#maemo larsivi (~quassel@188.113.74.106) |
| 16:34.29 | noobmonk3y | just 'committed' something to git - i actually still dont understand what i did, but it worked! |
| 16:34.48 | *** join/#maemo vbenes (~vbenes@r9gj71.net.upc.cz) |
| 16:35.33 | *** join/#maemo z4chh (~zach@dhcp-128-194-74-64.resnet.tamu.edu) |
| 16:36.04 | andre__ | noobmonk3y, "committed" or "pushed"? :-D |
| 16:36.17 | noobmonk3y | erm... both i have a feeling lol |
| 16:36.21 | noobmonk3y | well it pushed something |
| 16:36.29 | andre__ | heh |
| 16:36.32 | MohammadAG_ | healthcheck off a cliff |
| 16:36.36 | *** join/#maemo centoslinux (~centoslin@s0021-0018.dsl.start.no) |
| 16:36.38 | *** join/#maemo lcuk3 (lcuk@cpc1-oldh7-0-0-cust142.manc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 16:36.43 | noobmonk3y | ;) |
| 16:36.47 | noobmonk3y | http://gitorious.org/healthcheck/healthcheck |
| 16:36.51 | noobmonk3y | well it only shows a push |
| 16:36.52 | *** join/#maemo jollity (~ksusha_su@195.222.127.7) |
| 16:36.58 | noobmonk3y | so i'm going with "push" as the answer to that |
| 16:37.21 | noobmonk3y | lol i scared lcuk3 off |
| 16:37.27 | noobmonk3y | well the other lcuk |
| 16:37.28 | Zeddeh | moment of truth |
| 16:37.30 | lcuk3 | nahh noobmonk3y |
| 16:37.33 | noobmonk3y | :P |
| 16:37.34 | lcuk3 | just virginity fail |
| 16:37.38 | noobmonk3y | hehehe |
| 16:38.15 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk) |
| 16:38.45 | konttori | pupnik: I don't think anything will stop that. |
| 16:39.04 | noobmonk3y | konttori, i really do think it will help :D |
| 16:39.23 | konttori | anyway, I hope it's not long anymore. We *again* have a good candidate, so the release is near (if nothing goes wrong) |
| 16:39.38 | noobmonk3y | thinks that should be stamped on every tmo mebers login page |
| 16:40.03 | noobmonk3y | members* |
| 16:40.15 | timeless_mbp | konttori: fwiw, â8 was ok in my book |
| 16:40.17 | timeless_mbp | -10 sucked |
| 16:40.21 | noobmonk3y | lol |
| 16:40.44 | timeless_mbp | konttori: that's ignoring the fact that someone broke the sip stack |
| 16:40.56 | timeless_mbp | so when i make calls, it still rings after the call connects :( |
| 16:41.05 | timeless_mbp | hasn't gotten around to filing that |
| 16:41.13 | lcuk | slaps timeless_mbp |
| 16:41.21 | noobmonk3y | laughs |
| 16:41.22 | *** join/#maemo mikki-kun|N900 (~mikki-kun@113.53.36.215) |
| 16:41.27 | noobmonk3y | quite a funny bug :P |
| 16:41.41 | timeless_mbp | lcuk: well, if they have a candidate, surely people will hear for themselves soon enough :) |
| 16:41.45 | lcuk | hasnt noticed it |
| 16:41.54 | noobmonk3y | so timeless is the one lengthening the wait.... and therefore allowing the tmo ranters to rant more? lol |
| 16:41.59 | lcuk | any idea which week |
| 16:42.00 | timeless_mbp | lcuk: how often do you call +1800555TELL using skype over GPRS? |
| 16:42.13 | timeless_mbp | noobmonk3y: i didn't file the bug |
| 16:42.15 | lcuk | i dont |
| 16:42.19 | *** join/#maemo congerro (~Don@2001:638:204:10:215:f2ff:fe5c:3914) |
| 16:42.22 | noobmonk3y | thats what i meant timeless ;) |
| 16:42.22 | timeless_mbp | so how can you blame me for it? :) |
| 16:42.38 | noobmonk3y | well, someone else will rant if that is a bug ;) - anyway |
| 16:42.40 | timeless_mbp | only people who file bugs really lengthen the wait |
| 16:42.45 | noobmonk3y | they will rant if there arn't no bugs anyway |
| 16:42.51 | timeless_mbp | anyway, after about half a minute, the ringer stops |
| 16:42.54 | noobmonk3y | are no* |
| 16:45.14 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (~Meizirkki@80-186-215-68.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 16:45.33 | *** join/#maemo congerro (~Don@nat-wh.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) |
| 16:46.14 | *** join/#maemo noobmonk3y (~noobmonk3@host86-178-50-44.range86-178.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:46.24 | noobmonk3y | prods MohammadAG_ |
| 16:46.27 | noobmonk3y | meh |
| 16:46.31 | noobmonk3y | xchat died |
| 16:47.00 | timeless_mbp | hey, can someone here load about:plugins for me ? |
| 16:47.09 | timeless_mbp | (microb browser, 1.1.1 or older on n900) |
| 16:47.30 | *** join/#maemo mikki-kun|N900 (~mikki-kun@113.53.36.215) |
| 16:47.32 | ShadowJK | it's empty |
| 16:47.39 | *** join/#maemo eikkka (~5b9c6aeb@gateway/web/freenode/x-jshbzbejhapbvflu) |
| 16:47.49 | timeless_mbp | thanks |
| 16:48.00 | ShadowJK | oh no wait, a few seconds after progress bar vanished text appeared |
| 16:48.13 | ShadowJK | Installed Plugins... Default Plugin |
| 16:48.20 | timeless_mbp | oh, it's just slow? |
| 16:48.22 | timeless_mbp | try loading |
| 16:48.23 | timeless_mbp | http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/23/plugins.htm |
| 16:48.25 | timeless_mbp | and |
| 16:48.26 | timeless_mbp | http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/23/plugins.html |
| 16:48.27 | MohammadAG_ | blames noobmonk3y's install |
| 16:48.35 | eikkka | hey, i'm trying to setup a facebook chat account to my conversations without any duplicate contacts constantly popping up, and i heard Jabber's the best option, but I have no idea what jabber is and how I get it to work :/ |
| 16:49.21 | ShadowJK | timeless_mbp, yeah those load in about 4sec |
| 16:49.40 | timeless_mbp | does it show the same list? |
| 16:49.57 | ShadowJK | No |
| 16:50.04 | tybollt | konttori: so ovi _suite_ is being worked on apparently, when will ovi_.com_ get some love, n900-wise? |
| 16:50.14 | *** join/#maemo igagis (~igagis@cs181109083.pp.htv.fi) |
| 16:50.22 | timeless_mbp | can you pastebin.mozilla.org the two lists? |
| 16:50.39 | timeless_mbp | tybollt: afaik they're unrelated groups |
| 16:51.41 | tybollt | timeless_mbp: someone told me even ovi.com has different groups/teams for each thing there (like calendar, contacts etc) |
| 16:51.59 | timeless_mbp | correct |
| 16:52.16 | timeless_mbp | it's an umbrella, not an integrated team :) |
| 16:52.28 | timeless_mbp | the only thing it has is an integrated slow updating device support list |
| 16:52.57 | tybollt | timeless_mbp: anyway I'm really just trying to wrap my head around why Nokia ignores the best feature in years for the N900. |
| 16:53.07 | *** join/#maemo congerro (~Don@2001:638:204:10:215:f2ff:fe5c:3914) |
| 16:53.24 | timeless_mbp | tybollt: i'm sure there's a good dilbert cartoon for this |
| 16:53.42 | *** join/#maemo madian_ (~madian@de2-as7708.alshamil.net.ae) |
| 16:53.44 | pupnik | oh oh oh |
| 16:53.50 | *** join/#maemo trofi (~slyfox@178.125.33.201) |
| 16:53.59 | ShadowJK | ondevice about:config: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/720959 your first url: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/720960 second: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/720961 |
| 16:54.03 | timeless_mbp | http://duncaninfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/dilbert_marketing.jpg |
| 16:54.25 | *** join/#maemo guysoft422 (~guysoft@bzq-79-180-53-22.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 16:54.29 | pupnik | this doesn't fit but it is awesome ... http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/70000/0000/600/70675/70675.strip.gif |
| 16:54.49 | lcuk | pupnik, dilbert is always awesome |
| 16:55.13 | *** join/#maemo congerro (~Don@nat-wh.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) |
| 16:55.29 | tybollt | timeless_mbp: =) |
| 16:56.04 | timeless_mbp | pupnik++ |
| 16:56.07 | ShadowJK | wonders how to tell media player plugin that media player can play ogg |
| 16:56.08 | timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: thanks |
| 16:56.26 | ShadowJK | ondevice about:plugins really ends there |
| 16:56.35 | *** join/#maemo Bactius (~Janar@m83-185-103-206.cust.tele2.se) |
| 16:56.44 | timeless_mbp | http://charliealfred.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/dilbert-1.png?w=764&h=228 |
| 16:56.48 | timeless_mbp | is an interesting one |
| 16:56.57 | timeless_mbp | i know an engineer at nokia w/ personal experience w/ that one |
| 16:56.58 | timeless_mbp | sadly |
| 16:57.04 | Trizt | timeless_mbp; the last package you released yesterday did wonders, didn't kill widgets and the odd GUI problems seems to have disappeared |
| 16:57.28 | timeless_mbp | Trizt: wow |
| 16:58.31 | timeless_mbp | Trizt: is it actually translating stuff? |
| 16:58.43 | timeless_mbp | because i think the last update i shipped was basically empty :( |
| 16:58.45 | Trizt | seems so |
| 16:58.50 | pupnik | hahahaha timeless_mbp |
| 16:59.09 | timeless_mbp | pupnik: well, one of my packages was an armel v. all conflict |
| 17:01.16 | *** join/#maemo The_Tall1 (~A@p50814325.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:02.38 | *** join/#maemo congerro (~Don@2001:638:204:10:215:f2ff:fe5c:3914) |
| 17:03.49 | pupnik | anybody in tampere want to do dinner sometime? |
| 17:04.47 | timeless_mbp | goes out for a while |
| 17:04.54 | Trizt | have fun |
| 17:05.37 | *** join/#maemo Tuukka (~5b99367d@gateway/web/freenode/x-przvypuxbcmxxuca) |
| 17:11.55 | konttori | tybollt: ovi suite is worked on, of ovi.com, I don't understand what you mean |
| 17:12.45 | *** join/#maemo choppa (~chigge@mnch-d9bde3d5.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 17:13.28 | konttori | loves that last dilbert. It rings so true in large organizations |
| 17:13.46 | w00t_ | hehe. most of them do. |
| 17:14.17 | tybollt | konttori: ovi.com is entirely not compatible with the N900 device. When will device capability be added for the N900? Actually a word from Nokia that they at all will be adding N900 support for ovi.com (whenever) would suffice... |
| 17:15.05 | konttori | tybollt: like what kind of issues are there (I was never managing browser, and I don't use ovi.com, so I have no clue what kind of issues you mean) |
| 17:15.15 | tybollt | As it stands pretty much every phone ever released (well...) by nokia can sync various content OTA w/ ovi.com, but the Nokia supposed flagship N900, can't. :-( |
| 17:16.01 | ShadowJK | there's "syncing" on ovi.com? I thought it was just a website |
| 17:16.07 | *** join/#maemo FredrIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 17:16.07 | tybollt | konttori: syncing your phonebook, your calendar, your <insert type of content here> over the air. |
| 17:16.13 | tybollt | slaps sjk :) |
| 17:16.14 | *** join/#maemo Joonas (~jkirsebom@0x55510915.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 17:16.22 | Trizt | tybollt; I think ovi is a windroid only thing, they seen to that less and less of it can be used by normal people |
| 17:17.03 | tybollt | so what - is being able to edit your calendar on the web NOT a nifty thing all-of-a-sudden? |
| 17:18.07 | *** join/#maemo booiiing (~booiiing]@cl-959.dus-01.de.sixxs.net) |
| 17:19.34 | *** join/#maemo Xisdibik (~Xisdibik@m5a0e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 17:19.35 | Trizt | tybollt; yes, it requires you to install some strange program that don't work on anything normal but on microsoft only |
| 17:19.57 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-078-042-039-158.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 17:19.57 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 17:20.04 | tybollt | :P |
| 17:20.14 | tybollt | Trizt: no |
| 17:20.25 | tybollt | Trizt: you _entirely_ missed the point, so very very entirely :) |
| 17:20.33 | ShadowJK | I don't install programs on my xp machine, it's best that way |
| 17:21.25 | tybollt | Trizt: ovi.com is _entering your data in a web browser of your choice_ and then syncing with your mobile - has N O T H I N G to do, nothing what-so-ever with windows. |
| 17:21.29 | *** join/#maemo kabtoffe (~kbergstr@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff5ec100-39.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:21.30 | *** join/#maemo __a (~albert@c-f84272d5.06-180-6e6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 17:21.36 | ShadowJK | xp has a bluetooth stack, so driver discs with bt dongles are evil. XP is perfectly able to use phones as modems over bluetooth too, so pcsuite things must be evil :D |
| 17:21.47 | *** join/#maemo furunk3l (~furunk3l@89.246.68.22) |
| 17:21.56 | *** join/#maemo mikki-kun|N900 (~mikki-kun@113.53.36.215) |
| 17:22.11 | tybollt | I am talking about ovi.com - syncing OTA, not Ovi Suite, sigh... |
| 17:22.15 | tybollt | different things |
| 17:24.37 | Trizt | tybollt; I noticed that they changed the flies to require that horrible software, won't take long before everything there will use the application instead |
| 17:25.53 | noobmonk3y | does music bought on the nokia ovi music thingy work on the n900? |
| 17:26.21 | tybollt | noobmonk3y: bet it won't |
| 17:26.25 | noobmonk3y | meh |
| 17:26.27 | noobmonk3y | want to get some music |
| 17:26.35 | tybollt | noobmonk3y: seriously, I have no idea |
| 17:26.36 | konttori | tybollt: I see, so synch issues. DUnno, again something I wasn't handling. |
| 17:26.37 | noobmonk3y | and never had an mp3 player as they make it so hard to figure out |
| 17:26.45 | tybollt | but buying music from nokia? jeebus |
| 17:26.45 | Trizt | noobmonk3y; no, DRM |
| 17:26.48 | SpeedEvil | still hasn't claimed his 5 free tracks. |
| 17:26.53 | noobmonk3y | Trizt, no idea |
| 17:26.59 | noobmonk3y | wish it would just tell me |
| 17:27.01 | Trizt | noobmonk3y; it has |
| 17:27.10 | noobmonk3y | oh then the n900 wont work poo :( |
| 17:27.18 | Trizt | nods |
| 17:27.20 | noobmonk3y | dont get it £8 for an albumn and i cant play it on then 900 :( |
| 17:27.27 | noobmonk3y | the* |
| 17:27.45 | noobmonk3y | is there anywhere that goves good drm free music? :D (Ata cost obviously) |
| 17:27.50 | Trizt | but you an't download the songs with a normal machine either |
| 17:27.51 | ShadowJK | I think whether it works or doesn't work on n900 depends on where Nokia thinks you live, and if they're wrong you have no way of making them change their mind :) |
| 17:28.01 | konttori | is very axiously waiting for pr1.2 to go out so that extras devel will receive the wonderful qt4.7 and qt quick! |
| 17:28.11 | noobmonk3y | lol konttori |
| 17:28.16 | w00t_ | konttori: you and just about everyone else I think |
| 17:28.18 | noobmonk3y | feed the developers beer, normally works |
| 17:28.18 | w00t_ | :-) |
| 17:28.21 | *** join/#maemo mikki-kun|N900 (~mikki-kun@113.53.36.215) |
| 17:28.34 | tybollt | konttori: There's something very profoundly wrong in that comming from ... you :) |
| 17:28.40 | noobmonk3y | right... so no-one buys music online and copies it to their device? |
| 17:28.56 | konttori | lol, but I'm waiting for it for entirely different reasons. |
| 17:29.07 | noobmonk3y | konttori, pr1.2 comes with QT porn? lol |
| 17:29.08 | ShadowJK | noobmonk3y, it's too damn difficult, complex and hard compared to piracy |
| 17:29.14 | konttori | I think that qt quick will change fundamentally the way we develop apps for both mobile and for desktop |
| 17:29.26 | noobmonk3y | ShadowJK, i know! and it bugs me! i want to buy and they just wont god damn let me! |
| 17:29.36 | frals | trouts noobmonk3y |
| 17:29.38 | noobmonk3y | too lazy to buy a cd and rip it, just want to download, and have it on my device! |
| 17:29.41 | tybollt | konttori: in what regard - care to elaboratE? |
| 17:29.42 | Trizt | noobmonk3y; my gf "bought", but she can only listen those on her phone, she is not that happy, at least it was freebies, but she will not spend any money there to get any more |
| 17:29.42 | noobmonk3y | kicks frals |
| 17:29.46 | noobmonk3y | ~kick frals |
| 17:29.47 | infobot | ACTION kicks frals |
| 17:29.55 | tybollt | trouts noobmonk3y |
| 17:30.07 | noobmonk3y | oh ok.... |
| 17:30.14 | noobmonk3y | meh that doesnt hugely bother me |
| 17:30.18 | noobmonk3y | thats kinda the only place i want it |
| 17:30.39 | noobmonk3y | rarely listen to music except when i run, and i always take the n900 with me, as i use ecoach |
| 17:30.56 | Trizt | noobmonk3y; by principles, i don't spend money on tings that I haven't the freedom to use as it fits me |
| 17:31.01 | ShadowJK | I used to try to buy one song per new music shop. You'd get on to phone and one to PC. It didn't take long before I discovered the songs worked on neither :) |
| 17:31.12 | tybollt | huh |
| 17:31.17 | frals | goes back to preparing fmms 1.0 |
| 17:31.22 | noobmonk3y | hmmmmmmm |
| 17:31.27 | konttori | well, it completes the separation of the UI and logic in a very fine way, essentially creating a 3 tier architecture for UI, UI logic (javascript), and c++. Quite like how web development is done, with the difference of direct access, however, this time for full fledged application development. |
| 17:31.37 | noobmonk3y | it does make me chuckle that in a room of people no one knows a legal easy way lol |
| 17:31.55 | ShadowJK | noobmonk3y, because there isn't one |
| 17:32.04 | konttori | when the qml + common widgets is true, then it is indeed a very very powerful combination |
| 17:32.04 | noobmonk3y | :| worrying! |
| 17:32.07 | Scelt | frals: which comes first? fmms 1.0 or pr 1.2? |
| 17:32.27 | noobmonk3y | scelt - it is the version that Trouts..... it will beat PR1.2 before PR1.2 beats it ;) |
| 17:32.29 | mtnbkr | noobmonk3y: I just rip my cds to flacs and do what I want with them, play them anywhere, on any of my computers or my N900 - no DRM |
| 17:32.42 | noobmonk3y | mtameni, too geeky, too much effort, and i own no cd's |
| 17:33.05 | noobmonk3y | mtnbkr, |
| 17:33.08 | noobmonk3y | meh wrong person |
| 17:33.12 | noobmonk3y | auto tab w000psie |
| 17:33.19 | mtnbkr | noobmonk3y: you have an N900 and ripping a CD is too geeky? ha |
| 17:33.23 | noobmonk3y | yup ;) |
| 17:33.26 | mtnbkr | lol |
| 17:33.39 | noobmonk3y | would rather hone my geekiness to ertain things, some things in life i like to be easy |
| 17:33.43 | noobmonk3y | like my women.... |
| 17:33.45 | noobmonk3y | :P |
| 17:33.46 | noobmonk3y | lol |
| 17:33.51 | Trizt | connect a usb cd-rom to the n900 |
| 17:33.53 | noobmonk3y | shit better get ready b4 the missus gets here |
| 17:34.33 | Trizt | ovi works nicely now: 500 Internal Server Error |
| 17:34.53 | noobmonk3y | lol |
| 17:34.57 | noobmonk3y | new beta? |
| 17:35.07 | noobmonk3y | actually the new beta one seems pretty good (ovi suite that is) |
| 17:35.10 | nid0 | suite, store, share, maps, mail...? |
| 17:35.50 | Trizt | noobmonk3y; don't work on a real os and can't accept eula on game-console os |
| 17:36.16 | noobmonk3y | ? |
| 17:36.44 | *** join/#maemo eean (~imonroe@amarok/developer/eean) |
| 17:37.24 | nid0 | noobmonk3y: he's bitching that it doesnt work on linux, and is a fanboy who cant use windows properly |
| 17:37.29 | *** join/#maemo frosty` (~m0biu5@c-67-189-185-105.hsd1.ny.comcast.net) |
| 17:38.13 | konttori | loves the humor of qml security description: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qdeclarativesecurity.html ... google probably would not set that as an example ;) |
| 17:38.57 | Trizt | nid0; it just make people frustrated as it don't work properly, at work we only have problems with machine that run game-console os |
| 17:39.24 | *** join/#maemo Arkenoi (~ark@109.188.60.92) |
| 17:39.41 | nid0 | find an administrator that can set them up properly? |
| 17:40.39 | MohammadAG_ | <Trizt> ovi works nicely now: 500 Internal Server Error |
| 17:40.42 | Trizt | nid0; won't help, the administrator won't be able to fix bugs in the microsoft code |
| 17:40.44 | MohammadAG_ | thumbs up Nokia, thumbs up! |
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| 17:42.17 | RST38h | Mohammad: Why? |
| 17:42.18 | *** join/#maemo N900evil (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 17:43.02 | RST38h | Oh, the Ovi... |
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| 17:47.23 | pupnik | what is our position wrt "Flash Lite" |
| 17:48.05 | SpeedEvil | pupnik: we don't have it |
| 17:48.17 | SpeedEvil | AIUI |
| 17:49.27 | tybollt | what is flash lite? |
| 17:49.50 | konttori | pupnik: you can run flash lite apps in the browser |
| 17:50.08 | MohammadAG_ | tybollt, flash used on symbian devices |
| 17:50.10 | konttori | they run just fine (and pretty much faster than 'real' flash |
| 17:50.37 | ShadowJK | I didn't know fullflash ran flashlite too :) |
| 17:52.24 | pupnik | ty konttori |
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| 17:54.28 | Stskeeps | wb gcobb |
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| 17:55.28 | konttori | pupnik: you can test also on your web browser flash lite apps. |
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| 17:55.50 | konttori | e.g. http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/0306dc84-25c6-4e5f-81a5-4397045b7af4/Flash_Lite_Visual_Example_v1_0_en.zip.html |
| 17:56.06 | konttori | then just drag swf to your browser (or open in browser of your n900) |
| 17:56.43 | *** join/#maemo ciroip (~ciron810@151.61.193.176) |
| 17:56.45 | konttori | if you then want to create flash lite 'application', just copy the content of the tutorial applet, it is a good example of how to create fullscreen flash application on the device. |
| 17:57.00 | konttori | then just replace the tutorial.swf with your own, and boom. |
| 17:57.13 | timeless | konttori: do you use mfe? |
| 17:57.16 | konttori | (obviously, also make a new .desktop file and the usual stuff) |
| 17:57.22 | konttori | timeless: yeah |
| 17:57.49 | timeless | try opening calendar, open a synced item |
| 17:57.52 | timeless | swipe left |
| 17:57.55 | timeless | swipe right |
| 17:58.03 | timeless | does it say the item is synced? |
| 17:58.18 | timeless | for me, on this n900 it says n900 (Local) |
| 17:58.39 | timeless | if i leave the view and open the item directly, it says n900 (Synced) |
| 17:59.53 | konttori | lemme see... |
| 18:01.19 | konttori | timeless: yeah, it does |
| 18:01.44 | *** join/#maemo dvaske (~dvaske@esprx02x.nokia.com) |
| 18:01.45 | timeless | does which? |
| 18:02.53 | *** join/#maemo HarryS (H@harry.lu) |
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| 18:03.51 | konttori | timeless: it says local after swipe back. |
| 18:04.21 | timeless | cool |
| 18:04.40 | timeless | anyone here use mfe w/ pr1.1.1 or older? |
| 18:05.44 | timeless | konttori: next exciting feature |
| 18:05.50 | timeless | switch to agenda view |
| 18:06.14 | timeless | open the app menu, settings, manage calendars, uncheck birthdays and synced |
| 18:06.33 | timeless | tap done, save |
| 18:06.41 | timeless | you should be in agenda mode |
| 18:06.49 | DocScrutinizer-8 | moo |
| 18:06.53 | timeless | but for me, i (sometimes) have a blank window |
| 18:07.27 | timeless | if you switch to week and back to agenda, you should see a button for new event |
| 18:07.27 | konttori | lol, I have stumbled often on odd things in calendar application |
| 18:07.31 | timeless | confirm? |
| 18:07.31 | *** join/#maemo Tuco1 (~Tuco1@unaffiliated/tuco) |
| 18:07.31 | DocScrutinizer-8 | hi konttori |
| 18:08.11 | timeless | the calendar app seems to be full of magic tricks |
| 18:08.30 | timeless | things to make you blink and think you were seeing things |
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| 18:09.44 | *** join/#maemo jukey (~jukey@brln-4db8672a.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 18:09.44 | pupnik | cannot click on "Start" in Flash_Lite_Visual_Example.swf |
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| 18:20.31 | johnsq | Hi |
| 18:21.08 | KnightStalker | is now away |
| 18:21.22 | hrw | hi |
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| 18:22.09 | hrw | timeless: calendar app is full of bugs too |
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| 18:23.56 | timeless | =query #meego |
| 18:24.06 | timeless | oops |
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| 18:30.57 | Trizt | timeless; you begun to work with meego stuff yet? |
| 18:31.05 | Trizt | at work I mean |
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| 18:32.32 | mikki-kun | hm, what is the correct way to put aliases in my .ashrc so that every time i start a term this file is read? |
| 18:33.21 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 18:34.30 | timeless_mbp | Trizt: only if you count asking someone for a cname for mxr.meego.com using my work address 'work' |
| 18:34.42 | timeless_mbp | or talking to the intel l10n lead |
| 18:35.00 | timeless_mbp | so, anyone here w/ pr1.1.1 or older and mfe? |
| 18:35.11 | timeless_mbp | really wants to know if these bugs are reproducible there |
| 18:35.52 | microlith | timeless_mbp: yeah I've got that |
| 18:37.28 | pupnik | mikki-kun: i put aliases in .profile and they get loaded |
| 18:37.49 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (~timeless@a88-115-8-36.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
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| 18:38.03 | mikki-kun | ahhhh, thanks :) |
| 18:38.09 | timeless_mbp | microlith: did you see my instructions to konttori? can you try them? |
| 18:38.18 | mikki-kun | so i should rather use .profiles than .ashrc? |
| 18:38.20 | microlith | let me scroll up an dtry |
| 18:38.24 | timeless_mbp | thanks |
| 18:38.30 | Trizt | timeless_mbp; okey, thats progress at least :) yes, I do have 1.1.1 |
| 18:38.38 | Trizt | whats mfe? |
| 18:38.43 | timeless_mbp | mail for exchange |
| 18:38.51 | timeless_mbp | aka activesync |
| 18:38.53 | timeless_mbp | aka ... |
| 18:39.18 | Trizt | no, nothing like that, we have thought of having such beast at work, but this far we have managed to avoid it |
| 18:39.22 | DocScrutinizer-8 | nausea |
| 18:40.11 | Trizt | damn, I should take a nap before it's time to work |
| 18:40.31 | microlith | hmm |
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| 18:40.51 | microlith | timeless_mbp: I ended up on agenda view |
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| 18:46.20 | hrw | http://blog.barisione.org/2010-05/gtk-surprises-on-maemo/ - nice read |
| 18:46.29 | timeless_mbp | microlith: there are two distinct bugs |
| 18:46.35 | timeless_mbp | the question is what do you see |
| 18:46.45 | timeless_mbp | in the agenda one, you might end up w/ a blank view |
| 18:46.51 | timeless_mbp | or at least no 'new event' button |
| 18:47.15 | *** join/#maemo Sargun (~Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 18:47.22 | DocScrutinizer-8 | ~seen javispedro |
| 18:47.24 | infobot | javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2h 19m 32s ago, saying: 'oh, that's bad news -- I loved the way you handled it.'. |
| 18:49.01 | lcuk | hrw, indeed |
| 18:49.54 | hrw | lcuk: noted my comment there? |
| 18:50.39 | microlith | timeless_mbp: the display rendered normally |
| 18:50.55 | timeless_mbp | microlith: try the other problem |
| 18:50.59 | timeless_mbp | it's more consistent |
| 18:51.06 | timeless_mbp | will be back in 1-5 hours |
| 18:52.20 | lcuk | hrw have just a little faith, people are trying |
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| 18:55.27 | microlith | timeless_mbp: yes, an item marked as (synchronized) went (local) after swiping |
| 18:55.35 | *** join/#maemo gaveen (~gaveen@unaffiliated/gaveen) |
| 18:55.51 | microlith | and reverted to (synchronized) after reopening the item |
| 18:56.19 | microlith | actually, the first item you transition to is marked as (local) |
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| 18:57.33 | hrw | lcuk: users are trying to have a faith, yes. I forgot that such thing exists when it comes to maemo5 |
| 18:57.50 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 18:58.04 | barisione | hrw: you never know what is going to happen ;) |
| 18:58.14 | barisione | (and by this I actually mean you never know) |
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| 18:59.28 | hrw | barisione: sure, but as I said many times I lost any faith in nokia 'so called' developers teams knowledge |
| 18:59.54 | hrw | barisione: the good thing is that at least contacts have some external people working on it. |
| 19:00.17 | lpotter | ya, we're not real developers... |
| 19:00.23 | hrw | barisione: because calendar (which is internal written afaik) was designed and written by nokia 5110 user |
| 19:00.43 | hrw | lpotter: I said nokia - you are trolltech first then nokia for me |
| 19:01.04 | *** join/#maemo tbf (~mathias@86.56.57.78) |
| 19:01.29 | RST38h | real developers develop for iphone |
| 19:01.31 | RST38h | ducks |
| 19:01.59 | lpotter | nope. real developers develop for nphone |
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| 19:04.28 | lpotter | besides, you should blame the engineers |
| 19:04.34 | lpotter | shouldn't that is |
| 19:04.50 | hrw | rather designers + managers |
| 19:06.23 | hrw | designers did disaster designs for some soft (calendar), quite good for other (contacts). then developers wrote something more or less conform to designs. then managers decide will it get released or not. and if then when |
| 19:07.07 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~Maemohamm@62.219.120.20) |
| 19:07.27 | RST38h | doubts these UI designs were ever tested on the real users |
| 19:07.30 | lpotter | I see you have been assimilted... |
| 19:07.37 | hrw | as a user I can not change anything in that chain |
| 19:07.44 | lcuk | hrw - if you had the calendar are there any things from your list you would be able to have a go at curing? |
| 19:07.47 | hrw | as a developer I also can not chane anything |
| 19:08.07 | lpotter | sure you can. bug reports do get listened to |
| 19:08.23 | hrw | lcuk: I could at least go for my bug 6933 as it looks like <1h work |
| 19:08.24 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6933 Alarm times are shown wrong |
| 19:08.52 | *** join/#maemo muelli (~muelli@rzdspc10.informatik.uni-hamburg.de) |
| 19:09.05 | lcuk | nods |
| 19:09.12 | hrw | lpotter: please... wontfix, will be fixed in harmattan, moved into brainstorm - those are my favorite solutions used |
| 19:10.09 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (~Meizirkki@84-231-67-98.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 19:10.38 | lpotter | well.. some fixes might break compatibility |
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| 19:11.55 | hrw | I voted for many bugs which got me more or less irritated and those which got 'resolved' mostly did moved to trashcan^Wbrainstorm |
| 19:12.07 | hrw | lpotter: such as bug 6933 |
| 19:12.53 | *** join/#maemo bilboed (~bilboed@89.129.135.245) |
| 19:14.17 | hrw | bug 5294 is another example of terrible design. wontfix for fremantle is what I see it |
| 19:14.18 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5294 Support for modifying/deleting a single occurrence of repeating event |
| 19:18.15 | *** join/#maemo Goliath23 (~david@vidsolbach.de) |
| 19:18.16 | Goliath23 | hi |
| 19:18.42 | Goliath23 | is this the correct channel for questions related to qt maemo development? (nokia qt sdk) |
| 19:18.48 | alterego | wonders why the simulator takes so much CPU power .. |
| 19:18.53 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (~Valerio@Maemo/community/contributor/VDVsx) |
| 19:19.10 | *** join/#maemo Otacon22 (~otacon22@93-36-67-233.ip59.fastwebnet.it) |
| 19:19.40 | lcuk | alterego, because the n900 is so awesome :D |
| 19:20.01 | Goliath23 | I currently try to make my first steps, and I wonder why an application in the simulator with a simple qmainwindow has a gray background. I thought it would be using hildon style already (and thus, be black) .. wrong assumption? |
| 19:20.26 | hrw | Goliath23: #maemo-qt exists too |
| 19:20.42 | lcuk | hrw Goliath23 #qt-maemo |
| 19:20.57 | hrw | ops, long time since last time I was there |
| 19:21.15 | zokier | there is #maemo-devel too, although its quite quiet |
| 19:21.21 | lcuk | heh tis ok - how is your qt coding coming on? |
| 19:21.27 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
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| 19:21.55 | hrw | lcuk: mine? halted |
| 19:22.15 | lcuk | because of blockers? |
| 19:22.18 | lcuk | or no time? |
| 19:23.08 | hrw | lcuk: no sense in writing software which is not available for users (aka 'I do not use extras-devel' people) |
| 19:23.15 | *** join/#maemo SWFu (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu) |
| 19:23.26 | hrw | lcuk: and after stopped I moved my time into other areas |
| 19:23.52 | hrw | s/which is not/which can not be made/ |
| 19:24.39 | lcuk | reasonable enough |
| 19:24.56 | Otacon22 | Hi all, |
| 19:25.22 | Otacon22 | i need to add a program in my N900 menu |
| 19:25.31 | Otacon22 | i've created a .desktop file for hildon |
| 19:25.45 | Otacon22 | now there is the icon in the menu |
| 19:25.51 | Otacon22 | but i'm not able to start the program |
| 19:26.03 | Otacon22 | the program is a python game made with pygame |
| 19:26.15 | siman01 | does anyone know anything about using spinlocks? specifically why I can't find /usr/include/linux/spinlock.h and what the alternatives are I don't think building against all the kernel headers is the right solution? |
| 19:26.26 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 19:26.27 | Otacon22 | i've tried to use exec=/usr/bin/python /path/script.py |
| 19:26.48 | Otacon22 | and also to add #!/usr/bin/python in the .py script and then just give to exec the path of the script |
| 19:26.49 | microlith | siman01: there's also semaphores and mutexes |
| 19:26.53 | Otacon22 | but still not working |
| 19:26.56 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (~david@c-67-174-39-138.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:27.00 | barisione | hrw: were you at fosdem? or was it another guy complaining a lot about the calendar? :) |
| 19:27.22 | hrw | barisione: I was there and I always complain a lot about maemo5 calendar crapp |
| 19:27.23 | MohammadAG_ | Otacon22, Exec=python /path/file.py should be enough |
| 19:27.40 | *** join/#maemo crazyhorss (~Lore@m385e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 19:27.46 | Otacon22 | ok |
| 19:28.23 | barisione | hrw: I wonder if we actually talked (outside of the pub on friday night, it was me, a nokian working on the browser, maybe you and another guy) |
| 19:28.39 | hrw | barisione: if you want to hear more from me in person I will be at UDS-M next week |
| 19:28.43 | hrw | barisione: that was me |
| 19:28.50 | barisione | hrw: ah! :) |
| 19:28.57 | barisione | the maemo world is small |
| 19:29.04 | siman01 | microlith: yes thank, I'm not familiar enough with the code I'm porting, the OSX port used spinlocks do you think it would be wise to look into using samaphores or mutexes instead, is there a reason for spinlocks being uncool |
| 19:29.10 | hrw | barisione: I remember that someone had internal nokia build on n900 there |
| 19:29.35 | hrw | barisione: and was talking bullshits about adding video calls and mms support in pr1.2 |
| 19:29.58 | *** join/#maemo rdorsch (~rd@p5B20110F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:30.03 | microlith | siman01: spinlocks have specific use cases for critical sections, mostly where speed is of concern |
| 19:30.14 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@host86-159-250-255.range86-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:30.28 | barisione | hrw: define âtalking bullshitâ :) maybe he was saying something true and maybe not |
| 19:30.42 | PhonicUK | hey all |
| 19:31.23 | Otacon22 | MohammadAG_, it is not working here |
| 19:31.31 | Otacon22 | from terminal it starts |
| 19:31.40 | Otacon22 | but not with the launcher |
| 19:32.02 | PhonicUK | my n900 failed to boot 4 times in a row, then seemed to recover :\ |
| 19:32.58 | MohammadAG_ | Otacon22, does it need root privileges to launch? |
| 19:33.05 | Otacon22 | no |
| 19:34.35 | *** join/#maemo melfar (~user@cs181106199.pp.htv.fi) |
| 19:34.37 | pupnik | for some reason my synergy build is working again... |
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| 19:35.19 | lcuk | Otacon22, pastebin your .desktop file |
| 19:35.22 | Otacon22 | ok |
| 19:35.55 | *** join/#maemo kthomas_vh (~kthomas@rrcs-24-39-133-205.nyc.biz.rr.com) |
| 19:37.31 | siman01 | microlith: the code I'm wanting to port is here http://lxr.ingres.com/lxr/source/src/cl/hdr/hdr/csnormal.h#2583 I think I need to understand it better, thanks for your help. |
| 19:37.51 | melfar | is maemo window manager opensourced? the thing that renders windows and allows to switch between them |
| 19:37.58 | Otacon22 | lcuk, http://pastebin.com/Vzf0EjMT |
| 19:38.21 | jaska | iirc its matchbox |
| 19:38.24 | MohammadAG_ | MyDocs? |
| 19:38.28 | Otacon22 | for the icon i've used another one just for test |
| 19:38.40 | Otacon22 | yes |
| 19:38.47 | Otacon22 | i've said that is a my app |
| 19:38.57 | MohammadAG_ | move it out of MyDocs |
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| 19:39.34 | hrw | barisione: right |
| 19:39.46 | hrw | melfar: mbwm2 was open last time when I looked at it |
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| 19:40.15 | hrw | melfar: but as this is maemo5 component it can have quite closed development |
| 19:41.42 | Otacon22 | MohammadAG, nothing changes |
| 19:42.18 | hrw | melfar: you can check maemo.gitorius.org |
| 19:42.53 | melfar | is it called hildon-desktop now? |
| 19:43.31 | hrw | no, thats separate |
| 19:44.18 | hrw | bye all |
| 19:44.32 | melfar | libmatchbox2? |
| 19:44.38 | melfar | thanks hrw |
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| 19:46.41 | ruskie | hmm does kernel-power include a fbconsole or not? |
| 19:49.51 | korhojoa | hmm. webmin for n900 would be awesome |
| 19:49.56 | korhojoa | remotely turn on and off stuff |
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| 19:50.21 | MohammadAG_ | which package is py_compilefiles in? |
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| 20:07.23 | DocScrutinizer | wonders if N900 has WOL :-P |
| 20:07.57 | DocScrutinizer | (just kidding, on "remotely turn on...") |
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| 20:11.20 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, it should be able to if you can connect an ethernet adapter and keep supplying data + 5V after shutting down |
| 20:12.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | hmm and what's with WLAN? |
| 20:13.20 | MohammadAG | same? |
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| 20:17.34 | DocScrutinizer | interesting question |
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| 20:18.20 | DocScrutinizer | but I guess you can't keep the WLAN chip powered while the main system is mostly shutdown |
| 20:19.19 | Corsac | remote wakeup is evil |
| 20:19.24 | opdf2 | is there a list of support voip codecs by n900? I can only find this: http://www.forum.nokia.com/Technology_Topics/Mobile_Technologies/VoIP/Nokia_VoIP_Framework/VoIP_support_in_Nokia_devices.xhtml |
| 20:19.28 | DocScrutinizer | so it's probably academic effort to check if the WLAN chipset supports WOL, and if there's a IRQ line to wake the main system |
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| 20:19.56 | SpeedEvil | well - ... |
| 20:20.01 | tybollt | ...' |
| 20:20.23 | SpeedEvil | I get ~150 hours or so waiting on wlan. |
| 20:20.34 | SpeedEvil | That's not with the CPU all teh time in C4 |
| 20:20.59 | DocScrutinizer | opdf2: using wireshark you easily can catch a SDP package on call setup, and read out what's the set of codecs N900 SIP offers to the remote client |
| 20:21.00 | ruskie | hmm so nobody knows if the power kernel supports fbcon? |
| 20:21.01 | SpeedEvil | so it should be possible to get >>150 hours with 'wake on lan' done in software |
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| 20:21.22 | Corsac | ruskie: I don't think so |
| 20:21.23 | opdf2 | DocScrutinizer: cool thanks |
| 20:21.33 | ruskie | hmm to bad |
| 20:21.44 | DocScrutinizer | opdf2: or you simply call twinklephone (linux SIP softphone) and cjeck in twinkle's logs |
| 20:21.49 | ruskie | I guess I'll stick with jebbas kernel then |
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| 20:29.01 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: ( if you can connect an ethernet ) perfectly feasible with USB hostmode |
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| 20:29.25 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: and applying VBUS would wake the device |
| 20:29.54 | DocScrutinizer | :-) |
| 20:30.14 | MohammadAG_ | DocScrutinizer, :) |
| 20:30.35 | SpeedEvil | Can someone remind me where that nice kernel cross-ref of the n900 kernel is? |
| 20:33.15 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: if you find it, please add it to the wiki. I'm interested as well. For now I go with the very basic http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/usb/musb/musb_core.c stuff with its clickable names |
| 20:33.20 | toggles_w | q |
| 20:33.28 | SpeedEvil | http://www.foddy.net/Athletics.html :) |
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| 20:41.16 | SpeedEvil | Ah - I think that's what I meant - sorry. |
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| 20:53.04 | SpeedEvil1 | DocScrutinizer: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/search?string=wake.*on.*lan®exp=on&find=%2Fkernel%2Fdrivers%2Fnet%2Fwireless%2Fwl12xx%2F&findi=&filter=^[^\0]*%24&hitlimit=&tree=fremantle oh well - I guess that would have made it too easy |
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| 20:58.14 | C-S-B | how playable is psx on n900 these days? |
| 20:58.19 | SpeedEvil1 | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/wl12xx/wl1251_acx.h#974 looks interesting - but it's another case of Oooh! Another standard to read. |
| 20:58.26 | SpeedEvil1 | (to fully understand) |
| 21:07.30 | noobmonk3y | prods lcuk - still got all your teeth? :P |
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| 21:07.42 | noobmonk3y | prods frals - hows the trout farm? :P |
| 21:07.56 | noobmonk3y | meh .... must be time for bed :P |
| 21:07.58 | frals | bah |
| 21:08.09 | noobmonk3y | bah bah ? bah humbug? |
| 21:08.10 | frals | was suppose to package 1.0.0 today and write a post about it |
| 21:08.13 | noobmonk3y | awwwwwww |
| 21:08.16 | frals | missus had other plans |
| 21:08.16 | frals | :D |
| 21:08.19 | noobmonk3y | lol |
| 21:08.33 | noobmonk3y | not allways a bad thing :P |
| 21:08.43 | frals | mhm :) |
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| 21:13.54 | SimonLR | ADf |
| 21:14.27 | SimonLR | f |
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| 21:26.06 | wirelessdreamer | i'm trying to dump a listing of the indexed music on my n900, I'm assuming I need to use one of the tracker-* command line tools, but i'm having trouble figuring out which one should be used, and with what args. anyone familiar with trackerd? |
| 21:29.18 | pupnik | wirelessdreamer: tracker-files -m audio/mpeg gives me all .mp3 files |
| 21:29.32 | pupnik | maybe that can point you in right way |
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| 21:31.01 | wirelessdreamer | pupnik: thanks, any idea if id3 info can also be returned? |
| 21:31.13 | wirelessdreamer | mainly artist and track title |
| 21:31.16 | MAK_ | hi all iam now on pr1.2 and iam back to pr1.1 so the celluar data nt work so what ican do ? |
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| 21:36.22 | trem | nite all, sweet dreams |
| 21:36.44 | pupnik | no idea wirelessdreamer - i just hit tracker-[tab] and read the info |
| 21:37.43 | tripzero | wirelessdreamer, yes, you can get metadata from tracker |
| 21:37.48 | tripzero | how... i have no idea |
| 21:37.55 | tripzero | but it is possible |
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| 22:01.13 | SpeedEvil | ponders the ultimate cheap-food app. |
| 22:01.23 | SpeedEvil | Track what you've got in your cupboards. |
| 22:01.34 | SpeedEvil | Watch supermarket sites for special offers. |
| 22:01.53 | DocScrutinizer | rotfls at MAK |
| 22:02.07 | SpeedEvil | Look at online recipie sites, and work out the highest rated recipies you can make with stuff you've got. |
| 22:02.40 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: still following you diet plan? |
| 22:02.49 | *** join/#maemo grishnav (~grishnav@e2180-8777.securedservers.com) |
| 22:03.52 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 22:04.06 | SpeedEvil | 90% of the way there. |
| 22:04.26 | SpeedEvil | http://qkwv.com/weight.gif |
| 22:04.28 | SpeedEvil | :) |
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| 22:13.08 | opdf2 | n900 on newegg front page. plz buy me lol |
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| 22:23.48 | MohammadAG | VertSMS in -devel |
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| 22:25.29 | frals | fMMS 1.0.0 uploaded \o/ |
| 22:25.55 | ptl | cool |
| 22:26.09 | lcuk | RT: <frals> fMMS 1.0.0 uploaded \o/ |
| 22:26.33 | MohammadAG | RT: <lcuk> RT: <frals> fMMS 1.0.0 uploaded \o/ |
| 22:27.00 | MohammadAG | frals, heading to extras? :D |
| 22:27.29 | MohammadAG | Just checked twitter, guess so :) |
| 22:27.30 | lcuk | -testing |
| 22:30.41 | PhonicUK | is it possible for a script to pick up when the active profile has changed? |
| 22:31.25 | PhonicUK | i want a way of setting my IMs to AFK when on silent. |
| 22:31.46 | MohammadAG | wouldn't it be better as a daemon? |
| 22:32.33 | PhonicUK | maybe, depends if a script is already run on a profile switch |
| 22:33.37 | frals | dbusinterface at /com/nokia/profiled seems to be active during profile switch |
| 22:33.51 | frals | introspecting that might give you an idea of what to do |
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| 22:34.33 | PhonicUK | cool, cheers :) |
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| 22:53.57 | opdf2 | frals: ty |
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| 23:06.31 | njsf | re |
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| 23:20.06 | frals | hmm |
| 23:20.22 | frals | hit the promote button 5mins ago, wonder when its gonna stop loading the page |
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| 23:21.04 | frals | Package has been promoted. Go back to the package instance page. \o/ |
| 23:22.24 | SpeedEvil | is somewhat excited. |
| 23:22.42 | SpeedEvil | would be more excited if he'd ever had occasion to send a mms. :) |
| 23:22.52 | SpeedEvil | So - what's next? fvideocall? |
| 23:23.10 | SpeedEvil | congrats! |
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| 23:23.38 | frals | :D |
| 23:23.42 | SpeedEvil | Can it break down, and tell you how many total downloads you've had? |
| 23:23.56 | summel | pupnik: ? |
| 23:24.10 | frals | last count i did which was 2 days ago i think i had 170k downloads from -devel |
| 23:24.33 | SpeedEvil | So - divide by 83 versions, and ? |
| 23:24.45 | SpeedEvil | or are those seperate? |
| 23:25.15 | frals | its total over all versions |
| 23:26.06 | *** join/#maemo svu (~svu@089-101-099223.ntlworld.ie) |
| 23:26.07 | SpeedEvil | Still awesome :) |
| 23:26.19 | MohammadAG_ | <SpeedEvil> So - what's next? fvideocall? |
| 23:26.21 | SpeedEvil | I imagine that most people don't update that regularly :) |
| 23:26.23 | MohammadAG_ | Yay thanks frals ! |
| 23:26.24 | frals | im happy, seems there are a few people benefiting from the application at least :) |
| 23:26.45 | SpeedEvil | frals: Indeed, and if all of them bought you a beer, you'd drown! |
| 23:27.02 | frals | id be dead but it be a good way to go out! |
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| 23:27.42 | MohammadAG_ | frals, you did promote both archs right? :) |
| 23:27.52 | frals | negative |
| 23:28.00 | MohammadAG_ | then do it |
| 23:28.01 | frals | do i need to do that? |
| 23:28.06 | MohammadAG_ | well I had to |
| 23:28.27 | frals | might as well then |
| 23:29.03 | frals | need to repackage sharing-fmms and make it lib/ or whatever instead of user/ tomorrow ;( |
| 23:30.14 | MohammadAG_ | why tomorrow? |
| 23:30.26 | frals | because its 0130 and i need to be at uni tomorrow :p |
| 23:30.30 | MohammadAG_ | The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: |
| 23:30.31 | MohammadAG_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:30.31 | MohammadAG_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:31.03 | MohammadAG_ | frals, lib/what? |
| 23:31.11 | Noma | how complicated would it be to make a widget for customizable internet searches (consisting of a textbox and a drop-down selector for the search engine)? |
| 23:31.22 | SpeedEvil | Noma: Isn't there one? |
| 23:31.29 | frals | lib/whatever, dunno what section it should be but anything but under user ;P |
| 23:31.31 | SpeedEvil | Noma: I've got one on my desk |
| 23:31.33 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (~rsalveti@187.59.121.241) |
| 23:31.33 | SpeedEvil | Noma: oh |
| 23:31.34 | Noma | :o |
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| 23:31.42 | Noma | name? |
| 23:31.46 | SpeedEvil | Noma: it's not selectable is it - it just is configurable to oen |
| 23:32.32 | Noma | maybe i need to contact the developer if he could add that feature, i have like ten different search engines i'd like to use |
| 23:32.38 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 23:32.41 | SpeedEvil | touchsearch |
| 23:33.06 | SpeedEvil | I haven't relaly investigated if it can do what you want |
| 23:33.20 | Noma | i'll try |
| 23:35.31 | Noma | actually it does just what i needed |
| 23:35.34 | Noma | ty :) |
| 23:35.43 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 23:36.58 | Noma | all it needs now is automatic import from my desktop pc's google chrome...:p |
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| 23:45.35 | SpeedEvil | Oooh - shiny. Bootchart in busybox |
| 23:45.37 | SpeedEvil | http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox/2010-May/072365.html |
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| 23:57.56 | Ikarus | SpeedEvil: oooh |
