| 00:00.20 | LiraNuna | ~ $ ./sqrtf-test 1 |
| 00:00.20 | LiraNuna | testing 1, argc=2 |
| 00:00.21 | LiraNuna | testing 2, a=1 |
| 00:00.23 | LiraNuna | whoops |
| 00:00.23 | lcuk | LiraNuna, and then get rid of optimizations and other things - i have had strange stuff which only happens when doubles are used in my case |
| 00:00.50 | lcuk | app said whoops? :D |
| 00:01.00 | LiraNuna | lcuk, no, it just hangs there |
| 00:01.02 | xorAxAx | is the builder broken on maemo.org/packages? |
| 00:01.12 | xorAxAx | my package has 0 bytes |
| 00:01.22 | lcuk | i used to reproducably get lockups on liqbase if i used doubles in my blitter |
| 00:01.23 | LiraNuna | lcuk, http://pastie.org/private/eq2yfldww2omxivarzkora |
| 00:01.24 | jacekowski | check log |
| 00:01.26 | LiraNuna | no optimization |
| 00:01.34 | jacekowski | xorAxAx: what's package name? |
| 00:01.43 | xorAxAx | jacekowski: dwimd |
| 00:02.04 | lcuk | LiraNuna, what about the other specific cpu options etc |
| 00:02.14 | LiraNuna | I can remove if you want |
| 00:02.16 | lcuk | (i dont doubt there could be compiler problems |
| 00:02.18 | lcuk | yes |
| 00:02.55 | LiraNuna | huh |
| 00:02.59 | LiraNuna | linking with -lm solves it |
| 00:03.26 | lcuk | hah |
| 00:03.29 | LiraNuna | wtf? |
| 00:03.32 | LiraNuna | why idn't it complain |
| 00:03.37 | lcuk | thats not it is it |
| 00:03.45 | lcuk | its part of it i think |
| 00:03.57 | lcuk | there must be a symbol defined somewhere giving sqrtf |
| 00:04.03 | lcuk | otherwise build would fail |
| 00:04.09 | jacekowski | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/dwimd_0.2-3/armel.root.log.OK.txt |
| 00:04.13 | *** join/#maemo ie (~se@unaffiliated/ie) |
| 00:04.59 | lcuk | LiraNuna, its not your night is it ;) |
| 00:05.02 | LiraNuna | nope |
| 00:05.05 | lcuk | slides over a beer |
| 00:05.23 | LiraNuna | it hangs again if I use .cpp / -lm |
| 00:05.28 | lcuk | i gave up headscratching at windows |
| 00:05.39 | LiraNuna | I'm running Linux |
| 00:05.47 | lcuk | im on about me |
| 00:05.50 | LiraNuna | oh |
| 00:06.49 | LiraNuna | lcuk, question is |
| 00:06.52 | LiraNuna | why doesn't GCC use VSQRT |
| 00:07.03 | lcuk | VSQRT? |
| 00:07.11 | LiraNuna | VFP instruction |
| 00:07.13 | jacekowski | LiraNuna: works on my computer |
| 00:07.22 | lcuk | visual foxpro? |
| 00:07.28 | LiraNuna | ... |
| 00:07.33 | LiraNuna | it's an ARM instruction |
| 00:07.48 | jacekowski | gcc isn't the best compiler |
| 00:07.51 | jacekowski | but it's the only one |
| 00:08.08 | lcuk | it depends on the asm mode doesnt it |
| 00:08.22 | LiraNuna | even when adding -mfpu=vfpv3 |
| 00:08.31 | jacekowski | well, even on x86 simd instructions are barely supported |
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| 00:08.39 | jacekowski | i mean - it supports them |
| 00:08.48 | jacekowski | but very rarely generates code for them |
| 00:08.57 | LiraNuna | that's not true |
| 00:09.06 | LiraNuna | try coding for x86_64 and do |
| 00:09.13 | lcuk | yeah cos it has to identify patterns in its v1 code to replace |
| 00:09.27 | LiraNuna | float max(float a, float b) { return a > b ? a : b; } |
| 00:09.32 | LiraNuna | and it'll use maxss |
| 00:09.43 | LiraNuna | SSE instruction |
| 00:09.51 | LiraNuna | same for min / minss |
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| 00:09.59 | LiraNuna | GCC is smart - don't take credits from it |
| 00:10.10 | LiraNuna | jacekowski, please read http://www.liranuna.com/sse-intrinsics-optimizations-in-popular-compilers/ |
| 00:10.26 | LiraNuna | I am NOT a novice who can be told "GCC sucks deal with it" |
| 00:10.27 | jacekowski | it's better in 4.x.x |
| 00:10.28 | lcuk | so LiraNuna perhaps you could get into the gcc/arm mailing list area |
| 00:10.32 | derf | And there's approximately a thousand times more effort put into the x86 backend compared to ARM. |
| 00:10.33 | jacekowski | but in 3.x was hopeless |
| 00:10.54 | LiraNuna | derf, I was refering to <jacekowski> well, even on x86 simd instructions are barely supported |
| 00:11.36 | derf | The real reason gcc uses SSE for floating point is because the 80x87 FPU does horrible and confusing things to the precision. |
| 00:11.47 | jacekowski | and there was recently lot of people moaning about icc generating much better code |
| 00:11.50 | lcuk | LiraNuna, if you have the skills and time to identify/report/fix/improve gcc on arm then go for it :) |
| 00:11.52 | LiraNuna | sqrtf() in GCC / x86_64 results into sqrtss |
| 00:11.54 | derf | So once they had a way to stop using it, they jumped at the chance. |
| 00:12.24 | lcuk | we dont have an x86_64 here tho |
| 00:12.35 | LiraNuna | and I know how GCC's optimizer works, it recognizes sqrtf as an intrinsic NOT a function |
| 00:12.40 | lcuk | actually, gcc must be better than i would have made it |
| 00:12.43 | LiraNuna | unless it's in softfp mode |
| 00:12.50 | LiraNuna | hmm |
| 00:12.53 | lcuk | at least it KNOWS not to try making a sqrtss instruction on arm :D |
| 00:12.53 | LiraNuna | softfp |
| 00:12.56 | LiraNuna | investigates |
| 00:13.04 | LiraNuna | it's multilib time |
| 00:13.05 | lcuk | its prolly a thumb issue isnt it |
| 00:13.12 | derf | That said, gcc still does a pretty bad job of generating _actual_ SIMD job (which is no insult to gcc... doing so from C is extremely difficult; nobody does it well). |
| 00:13.12 | lcuk | very minimal instructionset ? |
| 00:13.14 | LiraNuna | lcuk, asm shows ARM mode |
| 00:13.18 | derf | *SIMD code |
| 00:13.32 | LiraNuna | derf, auto-vectorization sucks everywhere |
| 00:13.39 | derf | I just said that. |
| 00:13.48 | LiraNuna | yeah, I don't expect the compiler to do that anyway |
| 00:14.01 | LiraNuna | anyway, it's multilib time |
| 00:14.01 | derf | Though it would be a lot easier from, say, FORTRAN. |
| 00:14.18 | lcuk | runs through LiraNuna's house and turns off his router unexpectedly |
| 00:14.27 | LiraNuna | :O |
| 00:14.47 | LiraNuna | /quit #maemo Connection Timed Out |
| 00:14.49 | LiraNuna | OOPS |
| 00:15.19 | LiraNuna | something makes GCC go into softfp mode |
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| 00:23.04 | dsster | Has anyone here tried rtorrent on their n900? |
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| 00:24.44 | LiraNuna | I knew it! |
| 00:24.46 | LiraNuna | softfp! |
| 00:24.48 | LiraNuna | what the hell?! |
| 00:24.49 | LiraNuna | bl__aeabi_fadd |
| 00:27.26 | LiraNuna | you're kidding... |
| 00:27.26 | LiraNuna | sqrtf-test.cpp:1: sorry, unimplemented: -mfloat-abi=hard and VFP |
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| 00:28.01 | DocScrutinizer | <trollmode>if you need fp to code your app, then probably the app isn't worth to be coded at all</trollmode> |
| 00:28.42 | LiraNuna | if it wasn't for the trollmode tags, I'd shoot you in place |
| 00:29.16 | jacekowski | jacekowski:/var/log/apache2# cat access.log | grep chromiu | wc -l |
| 00:29.16 | jacekowski | 5349 |
| 00:29.52 | jacekowski | X-Fade: have you thought about making package download statistics for repository.maemo.org? |
| 00:31.50 | b-man|laptop | ok, i fixed the TriviaBot issue - killed it's account xD |
| 00:32.52 | DocScrutinizer | UH? |
| 00:33.21 | LiraNuna | HORRAY! |
| 00:33.21 | LiraNuna | fsqrtss15, s17 |
| 00:33.24 | b-man|laptop | LOL |
| 00:34.21 | b-man|laptop | DocScrutinize, i got a note stating "hi there! It appears your bot TriviaBot is severely broken and keeps trying to join #freenode and then leaving.. bots are not allowed in #freenode so please fix this as soon as you can. Thanks!" |
| 00:35.04 | b-man|laptop | and apparently the bot grew a mind of it's own - because i deleted the bot from my computer months ago |
| 00:35.07 | LiraNuna | lcuk, derf, see? GCC is perfectly capable of using HW accel floats |
| 00:35.20 | MohammadAG | is a bot suitable in #maemo? |
| 00:35.26 | MohammadAG | a trivia one |
| 00:35.38 | lcuk | no |
| 00:35.43 | b-man|laptop | hell no xDD |
| 00:35.44 | lcuk | LiraNuna, cool beans |
| 00:35.48 | derf | And what did you have to do to fix it? |
| 00:35.55 | MohammadAG | b-man|laptop, thought you were bringing one in... |
| 00:35.58 | b-man|laptop | delete it's account |
| 00:36.20 | b-man|laptop | MohammadAG: this was freenode in general, not #maemo |
| 00:36.38 | LiraNuna | derf, I enabled softabi |
| 00:36.42 | LiraNuna | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:36.45 | b-man|laptop | i had to contact an admin and he helped me delete the account |
| 00:36.45 | MohammadAG | b-man|laptop, ah kk |
| 00:36.54 | MohammadAG | just /ns drop it |
| 00:37.01 | LiraNuna | this should be default in the toolchain |
| 00:38.11 | b-man|laptop | MohammadAG: i almost had to use a special password reset key xD |
| 00:38.44 | DocScrutinizer | b-man|laptop: I know the background. I fail to see which account you deleted, as you.cant.undo.it wouldn't use any account you could delete? |
| 00:39.34 | b-man|laptop | DocScrutinizer: the account was under my name, so i was able to remove it |
| 00:40.22 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, so how as the italian bot able to register with your account & pw? |
| 00:40.40 | lcuk | mafia got hold of it and subverted it to their needs |
| 00:41.24 | b-man|laptop | DocScrutinizer: i originally created the account to have a trivia bot under #maemo-trivia, but when i decided to take it down, i forgot to remove the bot's account |
| 00:42.03 | b-man|laptop | as for the strange activities sense then, i have no idea :S |
| 00:42.04 | DocScrutinizer | we are talking about a freenode nickserv account, or what? |
| 00:42.11 | b-man|laptop | yes |
| 00:42.12 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 00:42.31 | lcuk | and the bot was hardcoded to use these credentials? |
| 00:42.43 | DocScrutinizer | ouch |
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| 00:43.09 | b-man|laptop | lcuk: if you mean hardwired account information, no |
| 00:43.40 | lcuk | ok, so somehow someone has binary+config of your bot |
| 00:43.47 | b-man|laptop | yup |
| 00:43.51 | DocScrutinizer | so again, where from got the italian bot the password to register with 'your' freenode account? |
| 00:45.01 | DocScrutinizer | btw when you delete an account, it's probably damn easy to recreate it |
| 00:45.02 | b-man|laptop | DocScrutinizer: i created the bot's account while i was identifies as 'b-man17' in freenode, so it created the account under the name of b-man17 |
| 00:45.39 | DocScrutinizer | you probably better had changed the password |
| 00:45.46 | b-man|laptop | i did |
| 00:45.59 | lcuk | and get a fake identity |
| 00:46.05 | b-man|laptop | LOL |
| 00:46.06 | lcuk | we should put you in witless protection |
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| 00:46.30 | lcuk | n |
| 00:46.52 | b-man|laptop | DocScrutinizer: it used a septate account password than my account from the start ;) |
| 00:47.20 | b-man|laptop | it was just 'under my name' |
| 00:47.30 | DocScrutinizer | I never thought different |
| 00:48.00 | DocScrutinizer | still it'd be better to keep the account and just change the password |
| 00:48.23 | b-man|laptop | i deleted the account |
| 00:48.34 | ech0Asus | anyone know how to scan other channels besides 6? |
| 00:48.37 | DocScrutinizer | so now everybody is free to reclaim it |
| 00:48.46 | ech0Asus | cause that would be sick.. |
| 00:49.13 | b-man|laptop | DocScrutinizer: the nickname sure, the actual account using the nickname no longer exists |
| 00:50.23 | b-man|laptop | lcuk: i'll move to London xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD |
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| 00:52.48 | DocScrutinizer | well polonium is toxic only for Russians in London |
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| 01:09.16 | LiraNuna | jacekowski, apparently valgrind doesn't support ARM |
| 01:09.29 | LiraNuna | checking host system type... arm-unknown-linux-gnueabi |
| 01:09.29 | LiraNuna | checking for a supported CPU... no (arm) |
| 01:09.30 | LiraNuna | :( |
| 01:10.47 | lindi- | LiraNuna: there are patches |
| 01:10.53 | LiraNuna | right, but it's incomplete |
| 01:10.57 | LiraNuna | http://old.nabble.com/Valgrind-on-ARM-patch-td19365648.html |
| 01:11.43 | lindi- | LiraNuna: there has been progress in 2009 |
| 01:13.58 | robtaylor | lindi-: oh, awesome! i don't suppose there's a git tree anywhere? |
| 01:14.20 | LiraNuna | lindi-, well, it's not on 3.5 |
| 01:14.28 | LiraNuna | anywhere I can get the source from? |
| 01:15.57 | robtaylor | LiraNuna: it looks like sid's valgrind has a bunch of armel support patches in |
| 01:16.30 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: :-) o/ |
| 01:17.14 | ech0Asus | grr i want to apt-get install skype but it dont work :( |
| 01:17.55 | lindi- | robtaylor: well the 2009 patches are in https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=126449 at least |
| 01:17.56 | povbot | Bug 126449: was not found. |
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| 01:18.29 | LiraNuna | ech0Asus, skype is built into N900; if you're in N810/N800 it should be in the default repository |
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| 01:18.38 | ech0Asus | i don't like the built in skype |
| 01:18.55 | ech0Asus | i can't check my voicemails |
| 01:19.10 | LiraNuna | good point, file a bug? |
| 01:19.28 | LiraNuna | ech0Asus, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7470 |
| 01:19.29 | povbot | Bug 7470: N900 does not support Skype Voicemail Settings |
| 01:19.55 | LiraNuna | "This is currently being worked on" |
| 01:20.02 | robtaylor | LiraNuna: LiraNuna: interestingly, it looks like a lot of arm valgrind support is going into lucid's package, with some guy from arm working on it |
| 01:20.14 | LiraNuna | robtaylor, interesting |
| 01:20.23 | ech0Asus | i installed easy debian just to try and see if i could get it installed through that but its not there :( |
| 01:20.24 | robtaylor | guesses google are paying for that |
| 01:20.25 | LiraNuna | so, can we get lucid on the N900? :D |
| 01:20.27 | andres | ech0Asus: should be there in the next weeks (1.2) |
| 01:20.41 | LiraNuna | ech0Asus, skype desktop doesn't have ARM version |
| 01:20.45 | robtaylor | LiraNuna: just dget the package and build under sb |
| 01:20.45 | DocScrutinizer | ech0Asus: surprise surprise |
| 01:20.58 | robtaylor | LiraNuna: though YMMV ;) |
| 01:21.12 | LiraNuna | YMMV == ? |
| 01:21.43 | robtaylor | LiraNuna: your mileage may vary |
| 01:21.51 | LiraNuna | oh |
| 01:21.53 | ech0Asus | any way to scan more then chan 6? |
| 01:21.55 | LiraNuna | I don't use scratchbox |
| 01:21.58 | LiraNuna | I got my own toolchain |
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| 01:23.36 | DocScrutinizer | ech0Asus: [2010-04-10 17:31:47] <DocScrutinizer> you're aware skype binary is closed-source, (c) skype/ebay, and even crypted? |
| 01:23.41 | LiraNuna | ech0Asus, just wait a bit - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45449 |
| 01:24.20 | LiraNuna | DocScrutinizer, apparently they work really hard on crypting it, they even got anti-debugger code |
| 01:24.34 | robtaylor | LiraNuna: ah, you could grab the package and then apply the patches. |
| 01:24.45 | DocScrutinizer | LiraNuna: I know :-D |
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| 01:25.12 | LiraNuna | DocScrutinizer, I take it you saw that lecture? |
| 01:25.24 | DocScrutinizer | blackhat? yep |
| 01:26.25 | dsster | has anyone tried running PSX4Pandora on the N900? Looks like they did a pretty good job with it.. cpu and gpu is identical to n900 |
| 01:27.25 | LiraNuna | dsster, should be trivial, pandora uses Linux too |
| 01:27.31 | ech0Asus | anyone else installed anything with easy debian? i got aircrack workin with it just locked on chan 6 for some lame reason lol.. |
| 01:27.48 | ech0Asus | iceweasel works pretty good... |
| 01:28.40 | DocScrutinizer | ech0Asus: yep, noticed that as well. Seems to be a 'known issue' |
| 01:29.47 | ech0Asus | is known issue fixable? lol |
| 01:29.54 | dsster | yeah they are using gentoo |
| 01:30.02 | LiraNuna | dsster, I can't seem to find anything (binary or source) about PSX4Pandora |
| 01:30.22 | DocScrutinizer | dunno, might be a wifi firmware issue |
| 01:30.50 | dsster | LiraNuna: gimme a min. i'll find it. I would test myself but I just order my n900 yestorday :) |
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| 01:35.15 | ech0Asus | hrm wonder what bluetooth tools could be installed with easy debian... |
| 01:35.46 | ech0Asus | never played with bt before.. |
| 01:35.58 | dsster | LiraNuna: it's hard to find for me too. I'll keep looking |
| 01:36.10 | LiraNuna | dsster, when you find source/binary - tell me :) |
| 01:36.43 | ech0Asus | hrm, ill check app list from backtrack and see if any are in synaptic :) |
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| 01:47.26 | lcuk | LiraNuna, before i forget |
| 01:47.36 | lcuk | the arm asm stuff you found earlier |
| 01:48.03 | lcuk | could you do a blog post or amend whichever wiki page is reqd with info on how people can make sure the hardware ops are used |
| 01:48.29 | lcuk | (since im guessing you didnt need to actually rebuild gcc itself) |
| 01:48.52 | LiraNuna | hold on |
| 01:49.12 | LiraNuna | LiraNuna, for best results, I think -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp |
| 01:49.20 | LiraNuna | dunno if you need more |
| 01:49.30 | LiraNuna | -mfpu=vfpv3 |
| 01:49.41 | lcuk | but irc is very poor for retention and information transfer to > sum of people listed there and paying attention |
| 01:50.39 | lcuk | a "best practices optimising builds on maemo" sort of post would be what im thinking i suppose |
| 01:50.44 | LiraNuna | I'm busy atm |
| 01:50.47 | LiraNuna | D: |
| 01:50.49 | lcuk | i know |
| 01:50.58 | LiraNuna | sorry, just Ctrl+R'd on my termina |
| 01:51.02 | lcuk | and a blog post for a single bit of info isnt needed :p |
| 01:52.02 | lcuk | but it would be good to build this sort of knowledge up or add to things if they are there |
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| 01:59.39 | jacekowski | i think i have working package |
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| 02:02.31 | jacekowski | i don't even have blog |
| 02:02.43 | jacekowski | my only existence in internet is in irclogs |
| 02:02.48 | jacekowski | and some forum posts |
| 02:03.08 | jacekowski | which ussualy end up in me showing my antisocial behaviour |
| 02:03.22 | jacekowski | ( that's why i don't have blog ) |
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| 02:04.13 | jacekowski | can anybody check something for me? |
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| 02:05.28 | jacekowski | and, is there any article/wiki entry/whatever about general UI guidelines |
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| 02:13.39 | ptl_demands_PR12 | jacekowski: in the maemo 5 sdk they had some stuff |
| 02:13.52 | ptl_demands_PR12 | jacekowski: but intertwined with hildon programming |
| 02:14.08 | dsster | LiraNuna: I found the guy who wrote it. ZodTTD is a cool dude. Still trying to find the source |
| 02:14.54 | ptl_demands_PR12 | jacekowski: http://wiki.maemo.org/Legacy_Maemo_5_Documentation/Human_Interface_Guidelines/Notes_and_Banners |
| 02:16.28 | rm_you | aight, I guess texrat didn't go to TX Linuxfest :( |
| 02:16.37 | rm_you | met a couple other maemo people there though |
| 02:16.41 | rm_you | which was cool :) |
| 02:17.07 | jacekowski | ptl_demands_PR12: do you ever sleep? |
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| 02:28.11 | ptl_demands_PR12 | jacekowski: I slept all day today :) and I also slept (somewhat) with my new girlfriend before that, a few hours earlier |
| 02:33.31 | dsster | LiraNuna: are you still there? |
| 02:33.40 | dsster | LiraNuna: I believe I found something |
| 02:35.29 | dsster | What version of psx4all is n900 using? Is it the one ZodTTD updates? |
| 02:36.34 | dsster | I was searching for hours :( |
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| 02:40.35 | jacekowski | i'm just wondering if removing unused parts from repository would be good idea |
| 02:40.48 | jacekowski | ( other platform versions and etc. ) |
| 02:45.47 | dsster | anyone here know what the hell is a .gpe file format? |
| 02:46.52 | luke-jr | probably something for GPE? |
| 02:47.05 | luke-jr | anyhow, file formats are foo/bar, not .foo |
| 02:47.15 | luke-jr | .foo is just part of the filename and can be anything |
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| 02:53.36 | dsster | http://dl.openhandhelds.org/cgi-bin/wiz.cgi?0,0,0,0,71,171 |
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| 02:53.47 | dsster | this is all i found from psx4pandora |
| 02:55.01 | dsster | This looks like it's for palm os? |
| 02:55.17 | DocScrutinizer | file *.gpe |
| 03:00.38 | dsster | did you find what file type is it? |
| 03:01.29 | DocScrutinizer | who? me?? |
| 03:01.55 | dsster | yeah |
| 03:02.21 | DocScrutinizer | I got no .gpe here to issue a 'file *.gpe' cmd |
| 03:03.50 | dsster | so you downloaded and extracted that zip file and file *.gpe gave you that error? |
| 03:04.15 | dsster | just ignore me lol, I still don't have the Nokia N900 and I'm going way ahead of myself here |
| 03:04.37 | dsster | Just would be cool to have psx emu running at 100% out of the box with no o/c |
| 03:05.51 | dsster | That dude ZoddT wrote some good code which allowes psx4pandora to run at 600mhz faster then 100% speed. So I thought why can't it be run on N900 since same hardware or nearly identical |
| 03:06.35 | dsster | <- got over excited. |
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| 03:09.20 | dsster | damn it i was looking at the wrong device this whole time |
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| 03:10.21 | dsster | that repo release was not for linux at all thats why i was so confused |
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| 03:11.25 | crashanddie | Brilliant article: http://www.macworld.com/article/150529/2010/04/macalope_flash.html |
| 03:12.04 | crashanddie | dsster: please stop talking to yourself :P |
| 03:12.13 | dsster | kk |
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| 03:23.26 | crashanddie | dsster: .gpe files are games for GP2X |
| 03:23.33 | crashanddie | dsster: google would've told you that |
| 03:23.47 | GeneralAntilles | finds the device really underwhelming. |
| 03:23.57 | crashanddie | what device? |
| 03:23.58 | GeneralAntilles | I think it's crippled from the fact that every little goddamn thing has to be monetized. |
| 03:24.01 | GeneralAntilles | iPad |
| 03:24.14 | crashanddie | I dunno, I think it's fun |
| 03:24.28 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: I just wish the haters would get over it and start talking about other stuff already |
| 03:24.43 | jacekowski | i like hardware |
| 03:24.55 | jacekowski | ui is quite nice as well |
| 03:25.01 | GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, I've been quite bored with it. |
| 03:25.09 | jacekowski | but os sucks a lot |
| 03:25.12 | GeneralAntilles | Trying to find interesting software, but it's all very expensive |
| 03:25.15 | GeneralAntilles | No multitasking is a bear |
| 03:25.23 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: don't misunderstand me, I don't mind a good, well constructed argument explaining why the iPad is bad (the typography article is excellent in that way), but all the threads that just say "HAHA, IT SUCKS" is getting old. |
| 03:25.25 | jacekowski | and apple policy |
| 03:26.06 | jacekowski | i mean - iphone 3g or 3gs running maemo - that would be almost perfect phone |
| 03:26.18 | crashanddie | erm, no |
| 03:26.22 | jacekowski | + maybe memory card support |
| 03:26.24 | crashanddie | because Maemo sucks as a phone software |
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| 03:26.40 | jacekowski | it makes phone calls |
| 03:26.41 | crashanddie | there's a bunch of things it can't do, and Nokia isn't throwing enough devs at it |
| 03:26.45 | GeneralAntilles | Ugh |
| 03:26.52 | GeneralAntilles | The resolution on the iPhone sucks |
| 03:26.55 | GeneralAntilles | Capacitive sucks. |
| 03:26.57 | GeneralAntilles | No thanks. |
| 03:27.07 | crashanddie | No real keyboard... |
| 03:27.19 | luke-jr | http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://dashjr.org/maps/wifi/2009-20100410a.km :) |
| 03:27.22 | pwnguin | on the other hand, it has ringtones per contact |
| 03:27.24 | luke-jr | (warning: use Chrome or Firefox) |
| 03:27.58 | crashanddie | pwnguin: indeed, and real call log, and support for conferences, and support for hold calls, and a responsive UI... |
| 03:28.17 | microlith | luke-jr: wardriving? |
| 03:28.31 | GeneralAntilles | pwnguin, because it's a phone |
| 03:28.40 | crashanddie | luke-jr: works fine on safari |
| 03:28.45 | pwnguin | GeneralAntilles: instead of what? a good phone? |
| 03:28.46 | GeneralAntilles | pwnguin, the N900 is many other things before it's a phone. |
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| 03:29.02 | pwnguin | GeneralAntilles: ok, well the phoen app sucks |
| 03:29.05 | GeneralAntilles | pwnguin, it's not a good phone |
| 03:29.09 | GeneralAntilles | because it's a mobile computer with phone functionality. |
| 03:29.12 | GeneralAntilles | It's not a smartphone. |
| 03:29.19 | crashanddie | it's a stupidphone |
| 03:29.19 | GeneralAntilles | No matter how much people want to pretend it is. |
| 03:29.22 | pwnguin | this is a tired and stupid argument |
| 03:29.29 | crashanddie | pwnguin: agreed |
| 03:29.33 | luke-jr | crashanddie: fine, sure, I imagine slow tho |
| 03:29.39 | crashanddie | luke-jr: not really |
| 03:29.40 | jacekowski | Successfully uploaded packages. |
| 03:29.44 | luke-jr | microlith: I just avoid the same route twice |
| 03:29.49 | jacekowski | i've just uploaded chromium |
| 03:29.52 | GeneralAntilles | pwnguin, meh, buy the right device for your requirements. |
| 03:29.52 | dsster | I don't understand? All I need the phone part for is making phone calls? How is it not a good phone? |
| 03:29.56 | jacekowski | hopefully it's going to build |
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| 03:30.00 | GeneralAntilles | pwnguin, if you need a strong phone, don't buy the N900. |
| 03:30.06 | GeneralAntilles | dsster, same here. |
| 03:30.16 | pwnguin | GeneralAntilles: nothing about the hardware stopping it from being a good phone |
| 03:30.18 | GeneralAntilles | gets good reception, speaker-phone is loud and clear. |
| 03:30.31 | crashanddie | dsster: because you don't have the same requirements as everyone else? |
| 03:31.04 | jacekowski | where i can see my build progress? |
| 03:31.05 | GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, same applies to everybody else. |
| 03:31.46 | crashanddie | dsster: I spend my days in phone conferences, my blackberry (well, when I had one) supports the ability to pre-program a calendar item as a phone conference, with the phone number and conference code. As soon as the time comes, the phone warns me there's a meeting, and I can click on "Dial", and 5 seconds later I'm in the conference |
| 03:32.17 | crashanddie | This is not a patended feature, it's not a difficult feature to implement -- if the calendar was appropriately built, which it isn't. |
| 03:32.37 | pwnguin | i'd just be happy to have caldav |
| 03:33.00 | GeneralAntilles | Well, given limited resources, etc. . . . |
| 03:33.11 | crashanddie | You can't expand the security of the device because those parts are closed source, you can't better the phone app of the device, because that's closed source, you can't better the mail/exchange part of the device, because it's closed source |
| 03:33.13 | dsster | So just use a calender event and write a script to make a loud noise and dial into the conference 1 second before it starts |
| 03:33.16 | GeneralAntilles | Sure, there are hundreds of little features you're welcome to point out which could make this or that better |
| 03:33.20 | pwnguin | im surprised caldav hasn't been hacked in given the evolution datastore |
| 03:33.23 | GeneralAntilles | But those features add up to time requirements. |
| 03:33.40 | GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, mail is open. |
| 03:33.40 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: I do realise that, trust me, I do |
| 03:33.45 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: MFE? |
| 03:33.50 | GeneralAntilles | Is closed |
| 03:34.04 | pwnguin | GeneralAntilles: the places where Nokia intentionally made it easy to diversify seem to have fantastic community response |
| 03:34.24 | crashanddie | Honestly, I would've spent hours hacking at the source code had I been given the chance |
| 03:34.36 | pwnguin | three's all kinds of telepathy plugins |
| 03:34.41 | pwnguin | there is |
| 03:34.55 | GeneralAntilles | All, notably, from Nokia or Nokia contractors. |
| 03:34.58 | pwnguin | there's a couple Sharing plugins i use |
| 03:35.55 | GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, I just can't believe you can't adjust the margins in any of the book readers. |
| 03:36.07 | GeneralAntilles | What's the point of having a big, pretty screen if you can only use 75% of it? |
| 03:36.14 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: have you read the typography article? |
| 03:36.26 | luke-jr | pwnguin: Nokia didn't make Telepathy |
| 03:36.43 | crashanddie | http://fontfeed.com/archives/ipad-typography |
| 03:37.15 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: ^ |
| 03:37.59 | jacekowski | mhm |
| 03:38.11 | jacekowski | fail |
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| 03:40.41 | GAN900 | crashanddie, yeah |
| 03:41.34 | crashanddie | time for lunch, 'later |
| 03:41.52 | GAN900 | I like to differentiate between blasting Nokia for dedicating insufficient resources to the platform that will save them as a company in the long term and to blasting Maemo Devices for doing what they could with what they had |
| 03:42.02 | *** join/#maemo z4chh (~zach@dhcp-128-194-74-49.resnet.tamu.edu) |
| 03:42.06 | GAN900 | Which is why I usually argue in these discussions. |
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| 03:42.38 | jacekowski | i don't think that smartphones like n900 are that important for them |
| 03:42.45 | jacekowski | most of people have simpler phones |
| 03:43.06 | jacekowski | and they did smartest move they could |
| 03:43.08 | jacekowski | use linux |
| 03:43.26 | luke-jr | N900 isn't a smartphone |
| 03:43.32 | jacekowski | tablet |
| 03:43.40 | jacekowski | but the point is |
| 03:43.47 | luke-jr | any recent news on the IS01? |
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| 03:43.55 | jacekowski | that there is a lot of linux developers |
| 03:44.21 | jacekowski | and lot of linux apps already |
| 03:44.26 | jacekowski | it's just about porting them |
| 03:44.41 | microlith | just porting apps won't get people to use them |
| 03:44.55 | microlith | at least, not if you're thinking beyond the immediate maemo community |
| 03:44.57 | pwnguin | well, porting apps to a new UI aint easy. but having kajillion libraries that build helps |
| 03:45.02 | luke-jr | notes most apps are not usable on N8x0 at least |
| 03:45.13 | jacekowski | kajillion? |
| 03:45.40 | luke-jr | most people want apps designed for a smartphone ;) |
| 03:45.41 | pwnguin | halfway between a billion and a jigawatt |
| 03:45.52 | luke-jr | ... |
| 03:46.01 | dsster | lol |
| 03:46.03 | luke-jr | gigawatt includes a unit |
| 03:46.20 | dsster | So back to the future? |
| 03:46.20 | jacekowski | luke-jr: it's still simpler to teach linux developer how to make smartphone ui |
| 03:46.35 | luke-jr | jacekowski: sure; but give me enough RAM and I can just run KDE 4.4 :P |
| 03:46.42 | jacekowski | luke-jr: than what iphone did, which was completly new platform running only on mac |
| 03:46.54 | jacekowski | mhm |
| 03:46.55 | jacekowski | kde 2 |
| 03:47.04 | jacekowski | or kde 3.x should work |
| 03:47.06 | luke-jr | not interested |
| 03:47.16 | luke-jr | they're both ancient and unmaintained |
| 03:47.20 | jacekowski | i built gentoo on 800Mhz duron with 256M ram |
| 03:47.31 | LiraNuna | is it known why N900's scrolling is laggy? |
| 03:47.33 | jacekowski | maemo libraries are ancient as well |
| 03:47.35 | luke-jr | I run Gentoo on my N810 with however MHz it has and 128 MB RAM |
| 03:47.41 | luke-jr | KDE does not run too happy :( |
| 03:47.55 | dsster | why would you run kde? o.O |
| 03:47.59 | luke-jr | nothing better |
| 03:48.04 | dsster | gnome i would understand.. |
| 03:48.10 | luke-jr | GNOME is awful |
| 03:48.16 | LiraNuna | no it's not :( |
| 03:48.23 | *** join/#maemo Pengman`` (~user@1405ds1-abc.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 03:48.28 | luke-jr | and when KDE barely runs, GNOME would no doubt fail to be even remotely useful |
| 03:48.34 | luke-jr | GNOME is terribly bloated and terribly UI |
| 03:48.37 | luke-jr | etc |
| 03:48.43 | jacekowski | question regarding updating system libraries - is it very bad if i would upgrade libexpat? |
| 03:49.02 | njsf | twm FTW! |
| 03:49.04 | *** join/#maemo woodong50__ (~moodapo@211.244.137.200) |
| 03:49.20 | luke-jr | njsf: I actually have twm installed just for that reason :P |
| 03:49.31 | luke-jr | twm + arora is quite bearable |
| 03:49.49 | DocScrutinizer | fsck kde4.4 |
| 03:50.01 | DocScrutinizer | broken crap |
| 03:50.24 | luke-jr | O.o |
| 03:50.26 | luke-jr | 4.3 works fine here |
| 03:50.32 | luke-jr | did 4.4 break much? |
| 03:50.32 | DocScrutinizer | OMG |
| 03:51.09 | jacekowski | 4.0 was useless |
| 03:51.09 | DocScrutinizer | dunno 4.3.1 here, FFS |
| 03:51.20 | luke-jr | jacekowski: I agree |
| 03:51.24 | luke-jr | I switched with 4.1 IIRC |
| 03:51.27 | luke-jr | maybe 4.2 |
| 03:51.30 | jacekowski | amarok 2.0 is useless |
| 03:51.37 | luke-jr | at least 4.2 I grabbed early |
| 03:51.39 | luke-jr | jacekowski++ |
| 03:51.45 | DocScrutinizer | 4.3.1 still << KDE3 |
| 03:51.48 | luke-jr | I dumped Amarok crap for mplayer -playlist |
| 03:51.50 | jacekowski | pretty much kde 4 and amarok 2 caused me to just fuck linux and go back to windows |
| 03:52.12 | jacekowski | amarok 1.4 was the best player i've had |
| 03:52.41 | luke-jr | Amarok 1.4 was tolerable IMO, but far from sane |
| 03:52.48 | luke-jr | I kinda miss XMMS |
| 03:52.52 | DocScrutinizer | whole KDE4 is a fsckng metoo-redmond-epigone |
| 03:53.03 | DocScrutinizer | and a can of worms |
| 03:53.16 | luke-jr | KDE 4's biggest problem right now IMO is the bloat and reinventing things |
| 03:53.26 | DocScrutinizer | yesss |
| 03:53.32 | jacekowski | my build is just uploading to fail again |
| 03:53.32 | luke-jr | if it stuck to Qt4, it'd be nice |
| 03:54.18 | DocScrutinizer | on point #50 and 100th segfault I stopped listing what broke from 3->4 |
| 03:55.18 | DocScrutinizer | and still they claim KDE4 is 'ready for prime time' -HAAH !! |
| 03:56.10 | luke-jr | KDE 4.3 is pretty stable for me |
| 03:56.14 | luke-jr | other than Konq and retarded websites |
| 03:56.29 | luke-jr | KMail has one easily reproduced crash, but it doesn't bother me enough to report it |
| 03:56.43 | DocScrutinizer | pretty stable is quite something different than KDE4 |
| 03:57.08 | luke-jr | more annoying than those 2 crash situations is KWin locking my keyboard -.- |
| 03:57.21 | luke-jr | every few days I have to Ctrl-Alt-F2 and restart kwin |
| 03:57.24 | luke-jr | to get my kb back |
| 03:58.47 | dmj726_n900 | How does on unfullscreen pidign? |
| 03:59.04 | dmj726_n900 | *one * pidgin |
| 04:00.45 | *** join/#maemo alexj (~alexj@nat/yahoo/x-vlwyhzterlcfdihe) |
| 04:00.49 | Trizt | I have stable KDE4 on all the three machines I have installed, the thing that annoys me most is the lack of multi X support |
| 04:01.38 | DocScrutinizer | yeahyeah, KDE4 for sure is super stable - as long as you don't touch it |
| 04:02.14 | Trizt | DocScrutinizer; don't use the 4.0, use at least 4.4 |
| 04:02.57 | dsster | wow you guys are still on about that |
| 04:03.16 | luke-jr | lol |
| 04:03.35 | dsster | it all comes down to prefrence really |
| 04:03.48 | DocScrutinizer | I'd happily use 3.5 or what it was, if only they supported it any further |
| 04:04.59 | DocScrutinizer | preference - yeah. I prefer a system to *work* with, that doesn't segfault on random bits every second day |
| 04:05.43 | Trizt | I would have used gnome, but for some reason they released a crappy sequel, so I switched to KDE3, KDE4 ain't what I really want, too much eye candy, but ctwm is a bit too much work to keep the menus up to date |
| 04:05.53 | dsster | Just remove the junk features and you will be left with a stable core nothing fancy dm |
| 04:06.42 | Trizt | dsster; then you have just console left if you do that on kde4 :P |
| 04:06.55 | dsster | lol |
| 04:07.37 | dsster | xcde is my 2nd fav. after gnome |
| 04:08.19 | Trizt | I don't like those gtk2 based, they seem to make things so user unfriendly using gtk2 |
| 04:08.24 | DocScrutinizer | looks at the graybluish and gray knetworkmanager icon on gray background, mumbles swearwords about eyecandy and idiots using black+white pastell scheme on a color screen, and starts to ponder treating the whole laptop in microwave oven |
| 04:08.47 | dsster | i mean xfce* |
| 04:09.16 | *** join/#maemo Terje (~Terje@a91-152-105-94.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 04:09.41 | Trizt | DocScrutinizer; ctwm maybe something for you, it's rock stable and no fancy stuff |
| 04:10.08 | Trizt | should be sleeping at least 3h longer |
| 04:10.31 | luke-jr | http://gitorious.org/wifi-mapgen fwiw |
| 04:11.11 | DocScrutinizer | fuck, I tailored and tweaked kde to my needs for some 10 years now. KDE4 nuked most of that. I don't see how switching to something still more different would reduce my bloodpressure |
| 04:12.14 | Trizt | DocScrutinizer; next time, when they release KDE5, then you don't have to change anything on ctwm, you can even get my configurations from 94 which I used at university |
| 04:14.46 | *** join/#maemo mfinkle (~mfinkle@c-71-58-69-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 04:17.15 | DocScrutinizer | nah, I probably should use a 6 weeks kubuntu period to get used to this way of errr working?, then switch to win7 and get a good book with advice like "how to rename 150 files on a graphical desktop: make sure your mouse is lokated in a convenient position, get a large can of tea (no coffee!)..." |
| 04:18.00 | dsster | that sucks dude |
| 04:18.23 | Trizt | DocScrutinizer; you can run kde4 on that win7 |
| 04:18.36 | DocScrutinizer | YEAH EVEN BETTER |
| 04:18.56 | luke-jr | lol |
| 04:20.20 | *** join/#maemo woodong50__ (~moodapo@211.244.137.200) |
| 04:20.24 | dmj726_n900 | windows 7 isn't awful to look at, but it fails to run any of my more recent code. |
| 04:21.06 | Trizt | you souldn't compile them gainst glibc ;) |
| 04:22.33 | *** join/#maemo psybermonkey (~psybermon@115.134.83.51) |
| 04:23.19 | dmj726_n900 | or code new features for the mutter window manager |
| 04:25.07 | *** join/#maemo fqhuy (~huy@133.64.169.222) |
| 04:25.40 | dmj726_n900 | (mutter's like metacity but without the suck) |
| 04:27.49 | jacekowski | is there any place where i can see current output of autobuilder? |
| 04:29.32 | crashanddie | jacekowski: re something you said earlier: Adopting Linux isn't necessarily a good thing. The porting effort to go from a full-blown Desktop OS to a mobile/tablet OS is severe |
| 04:29.59 | crashanddie | jacekowski: most applications needs a full rewrite because they are so unoptimised for the CPU, also, the input and interface needs to be re-thought and rebuilt from scratch |
| 04:30.47 | jacekowski | that's just ui |
| 04:30.56 | jacekowski | libraries can be reused |
| 04:31.02 | crashanddie | barely |
| 04:31.12 | crashanddie | but then again, general libraries are easy to port |
| 04:31.18 | luke-jr | crashanddie: for me, it's a good thing, since I *want* a full blown desktop OS on my mobile :) |
| 04:31.32 | *** join/#maemo tomaterr (~tomaterr@adsl-99-29-240-57.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:31.37 | jacekowski | i don't like that waiting |
| 04:31.38 | crashanddie | luke-jr: yeah, but you don't have a full keyboard and mouse |
| 04:31.49 | luke-jr | crashanddie: that's Nokia's fault :( |
| 04:31.54 | jacekowski | but as it's working for 10 minutes now |
| 04:32.02 | jacekowski | it doesn't look like it's going to fail |
| 04:32.14 | luke-jr | my C760 had a full-ish keyboard |
| 04:32.37 | *** join/#maemo hardaker2 (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 04:34.12 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (~jr@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 04:36.00 | nfermat | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:42.12 | jacekowski | i just don't understand one thing |
| 04:42.17 | jacekowski | http://abh-news.com/nokia-n900-ready-for-google-chrome-transfer-2407.html |
| 04:42.23 | jacekowski | on every single page they mention |
| 04:42.28 | jacekowski | something similiar |
| 04:42.40 | jacekowski | Nokia N900, the tiny pocket computer can port the Debian 32-bit |
| 04:42.46 | jacekowski | wtf? |
| 04:43.50 | *** join/#maemo Aranel (~Aranel@88.232.204.118) |
| 04:43.56 | *** join/#maemo Aranel (~Aranel@unaffiliated/aranel) |
| 04:44.25 | microlith | jacekowski: looks like it went through google translate a couple times |
| 04:45.17 | jacekowski | yeah, but where did original debian 32 bit came from? |
| 04:45.44 | microlith | dunno, I suspect they're thinking you ported some debian package of chromium? |
| 04:48.50 | jacekowski | well, there isn't any official debian package for starters |
| 04:49.04 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer-8 (~jr-N810@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 04:51.54 | *** join/#maemo fmacedos (~user@201-3-201-1.jvece702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 04:51.59 | *** part/#maemo fmacedos (~user@201-3-201-1.jvece702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 04:53.15 | jacekowski | i hate waiting |
| 04:53.54 | jacekowski | that builder should have like bazyllion core bazyllion gigahertz cpu to build these packages |
| 04:56.18 | Trizt | overclock the n900 then ;) |
| 04:56.23 | *** join/#maemo fqhuy (~huy@133.64.169.222) |
| 05:03.23 | jacekowski | it's not building on my phone |
| 05:03.24 | dsster | speaking of o/c how many reports of people frying so far? |
| 05:03.31 | jacekowski | it's building on maemo builder |
| 05:03.57 | jacekowski | and at the moment it's building for 40 minutes |
| 05:04.05 | microlith | dsster: none yet I believe, mostly people are seeing data corruption and having to reflash |
| 05:04.07 | jacekowski | and qt was building there for 20 minutes |
| 05:04.28 | jacekowski | nobody would admit to it |
| 05:04.41 | dsster | oh excellent :) |
| 05:04.57 | microlith | well, data corruption isn't excellent :P |
| 05:06.01 | dsster | thats why you store data on external flash :) |
| 05:06.26 | microlith | which doesn't save you when your root partition corrupts itself |
| 05:06.44 | microlith | the reasons for overclocking remain defeated |
| 05:07.04 | dsster | depends, you could use root on internal memory and /home on sdhc card |
| 05:07.25 | microlith | well, /home is already on the eMMC |
| 05:07.43 | microlith | they're seeing corruption in the UBIFS partition |
| 05:08.47 | dsster | ah so it would affect external memory as well then? |
| 05:09.02 | microlith | potentially |
| 05:09.03 | dsster | that sucks, but gotta keep backups then |
| 05:09.13 | microlith | the better thing is to not push the processor beyond spec :) |
| 05:09.28 | dsster | haha thats just asking to much :) |
| 05:09.38 | microlith | overclocking is the only thing I've seen that has been noted by the nokia guys as a warranty-killer |
| 05:09.44 | microlith | and they warned about it last september |
| 05:10.58 | jacekowski | it kills only OC faults related warrant |
| 05:11.00 | jacekowski | y* |
| 05:12.32 | DocScrutinizer | really likes to kick every now end then, reeeeaaly..... uh, hold me |
| 05:12.42 | dsster | a 800mhz o/c shouldn't be too bad.. i've heard people capping 1k ghz |
| 05:12.58 | dsster | now 1k i agree is overboard |
| 05:14.08 | DocScrutinizer | spams all OC-fanbois with 1599 registry optimizers |
| 05:14.29 | DocScrutinizer | escalates to ramdoubler |
| 05:14.48 | jacekowski | i'm thinking about playing around with cpu frequency as well |
| 05:14.49 | dsster | It's not that scarry to overclock. if you live in a hot and humid enviornment should stay away from any overclocking |
| 05:15.02 | jacekowski | but in both direction |
| 05:15.12 | b-man | passes out... 1:14am here :P |
| 05:15.21 | dsster | 1,15 here |
| 05:15.21 | jacekowski | bleeter: 6:15 here |
| 05:15.22 | LiraNuna | luke-jr, in case you're wondering, there's a better way |
| 05:15.27 | LiraNuna | luke-jr, -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfpu=neon -mfloat-abi=softfp |
| 05:15.33 | DocScrutinizer | WAAAAAH. dsster shut up please. |
| 05:15.35 | LiraNuna | ^ best of all worlds |
| 05:15.50 | jacekowski | i'm not going to sleep before my build finishes |
| 05:15.54 | jacekowski | which might be another 2h |
| 05:16.07 | jacekowski | well 1h now |
| 05:16.28 | LiraNuna | now how can I make those switches default :| |
| 05:16.48 | jacekowski | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:16.51 | luke-jr | Lira? |
| 05:17.06 | LiraNuna | luke-jr, GCC switches for floats |
| 05:17.28 | luke-jr | ... |
| 05:17.32 | RST38h | moos evilly |
| 05:17.39 | b-man | lol, Gentoo is fun :) |
| 05:18.24 | LiraNuna | luke-jr, you asked it from me, no? |
| 05:18.26 | luke-jr | no? |
| 05:18.34 | DocScrutinizer | dsster: I heard when you place your N900 into a plastic bag, then fill that bag with water and freeze it to -41°C, and then you wear a tinfoil hat, you can even OC to 2.2GHz |
| 05:18.36 | jacekowski | somebody has gentoo on his n900 |
| 05:18.39 | LiraNuna | oh shi- it was lcuk |
| 05:18.43 | luke-jr | lol |
| 05:18.50 | LiraNuna | luke-jr, I'm sorry; confused you both! |
| 05:19.05 | dsster | DocScrutinizer: test it out and let me know how it goes for ya ;) |
| 05:19.17 | LiraNuna | lcuk, ahem - -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfpu=neon -mfloat-abi=softfp |
| 05:19.25 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: does it only work on -41? |
| 05:19.40 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: afaik yes |
| 05:20.29 | DocScrutinizer | dsster: nah, clearly with all your knowledge about relation between overclocking and ambient humidity you are the better expert for these OC wizardies |
| 05:20.48 | jacekowski | X-Fade: builder is too slow for me |
| 05:21.25 | DocScrutinizer | dsster: please enlighten me - is it because the CPU can't sweat that effectively when it's more humid? |
| 05:21.35 | dsster | i'm no expert, just a common hardware enthusiast |
| 05:22.57 | dsster | humidity makes condensation worse then it already it, that's all |
| 05:23.43 | DocScrutinizer | aaahhyaeah, condensation when it's hot |
| 05:23.54 | DocScrutinizer | makes a lot of sense |
| 05:24.07 | b-man | is off to bed.... c ya guys :) |
| 05:24.07 | dsster | i can't recall the correct term, but you get my point |
| 05:24.20 | DocScrutinizer | but honestly those OCers always seem to know exactly what to do |
| 05:25.23 | DocScrutinizer | I got the point - you got no clue at all |
| 05:25.28 | dsster | humidity is bad for electronics in general, combine that with heat and overclocking is a bad idea |
| 05:25.58 | DocScrutinizer | a yes. please just take it elsewhere |
| 05:26.02 | dsster | just fuck off, if you need to do research please go ahead and don't bother me with your questions |
| 05:26.04 | jacekowski | bullshit |
| 05:26.16 | jacekowski | humidity is a problem when is cold |
| 05:26.28 | dsster | not only when it's cold |
| 05:26.31 | jacekowski | which is what happens when you do extreme overclocking |
| 05:26.32 | dsster | when hot too |
| 05:26.43 | jacekowski | because you do extreme cooling at the same time |
| 05:26.49 | dsster | humidity = corrosion in any temperature |
| 05:26.54 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 05:27.09 | jacekowski | dsster: you've got no fucking clue what are you talking about |
| 05:27.31 | dsster | it's basic stuff |
| 05:27.36 | dsster | common knowledge |
| 05:27.43 | jacekowski | copper doesn't corode |
| 05:28.09 | DocScrutinizer | I'm ready... |
| 05:28.15 | DocScrutinizer | any requests? |
| 05:28.24 | jacekowski | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:28.38 | *** kick/#maemo [DocScrutinizer!~jr@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer (User terminated!) |
| 05:28.40 | jacekowski | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:29.16 | *** mode/#maemo [+o crashanddie] by ChanServ |
| 05:29.25 | *** mode/#maemo [+b DocScrutinizer!*@*] by crashanddie |
| 05:29.28 | crashanddie | anything else? |
| 05:29.37 | jacekowski | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:29.40 | microlith | o_O |
| 05:29.45 | *** mode/#maemo [+o jacekowski] by crashanddie |
| 05:29.57 | jacekowski | now i'm your new god |
| 05:30.03 | *** mode/#maemo [-o crashanddie] by ChanServ |
| 05:30.07 | crashanddie | bows before jacekowski |
| 05:30.15 | LiraNuna | did anyone do OpenVG developement or have demos? |
| 05:30.24 | LiraNuna | on the N900, that is |
| 05:30.52 | *** mode/#maemo [-o jacekowski] by ChanServ |
| 05:31.21 | jacekowski | i don't think it's supported on n900 |
| 05:31.24 | *** mode/#maemo [+o crashanddie] by ChanServ |
| 05:31.32 | LiraNuna | jacekowski, omap supports it |
| 05:31.38 | *** mode/#maemo [-b DocScrutinizer!*@*] by crashanddie |
| 05:31.49 | *** mode/#maemo [-o crashanddie] by ChanServ |
| 05:31.49 | jacekowski | is there a driver for it? |
| 05:32.02 | LiraNuna | no clue |
| 05:32.23 | jacekowski | that can be easily checked |
| 05:32.40 | jacekowski | but i'm to tired |
| 05:32.48 | LiraNuna | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Microprocessor |
| 05:32.56 | LiraNuna | # Integrated POWERVR SGX™ graphics core with OpenGL ES® 2.0 and OpenVG™, support. |
| 05:33.02 | jacekowski | LiraNuna: nothing about software side of it |
| 05:33.11 | LiraNuna | just sayin' it's capable |
| 05:33.15 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (~jr@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 05:33.32 | DocScrutinizer | awesome, that's been refreshing |
| 05:33.58 | dsster | has anyone tried rtorrent on the n900? |
| 05:34.10 | LiraNuna | dsster, Transmission works REALLY good |
| 05:34.20 | LiraNuna | and it's almost fully hildonized |
| 05:34.23 | LiraNuna | really good |
| 05:34.23 | jacekowski | that would be easy to port |
| 05:34.29 | jacekowski | but there is one problem with rtorrent |
| 05:34.32 | jacekowski | which is memory usage |
| 05:34.53 | *** join/#maemo moza (~moza@h87-241-123-38.dynamic.se.alltele.net) |
| 05:35.00 | jacekowski | as every connection uses chunk size + a bit of memory |
| 05:35.13 | jacekowski | and chunks are ussualy about 2M |
| 05:35.22 | jacekowski | or more |
| 05:35.25 | dsster | so Transmission does not have this issue? |
| 05:35.35 | jacekowski | no |
| 05:35.37 | LiraNuna | Transmission works quite well |
| 05:35.38 | *** join/#maemo sejo (~SeJo@kwak.sejo.be) |
| 05:35.42 | jacekowski | it's been designed differently |
| 05:35.47 | LiraNuna | I downloaded a lot of stuff over 3G |
| 05:35.51 | dsster | ok, sounds great |
| 05:35.53 | LiraNuna | quite fast as well |
| 05:36.03 | jacekowski | rtorrent can easily handle 1Gbit on slow cpu |
| 05:36.09 | sheepbat | t-mo doesn't have o problem with that, LiraNuna ? |
| 05:36.22 | LiraNuna | sheepbat, they say, "Unlimited Internet" |
| 05:36.22 | jacekowski | as long as there is enough ram and disk can take that amount of I/O |
| 05:36.30 | LiraNuna | we'll see how "Unlimited" that is :) |
| 05:36.36 | dsster | haha |
| 05:36.37 | sheepbat | 10 GiB |
| 05:36.40 | sheepbat | it's somewhere in the contract |
| 05:36.52 | jacekowski | transmission would kill anything with 30-40Mbit.s |
| 05:37.02 | LiraNuna | sheepbat, I don't think I downloaded that much |
| 05:37.10 | sheepbat | ahhh.. okay |
| 05:37.15 | sheepbat | which plan do you have? |
| 05:37.17 | dsster | LiraNuna: have your tried sip on tmobile? |
| 05:37.24 | sheepbat | I'm thinking about getting the PDA internet-only plan |
| 05:37.25 | LiraNuna | sheepbat, "Unlimited Internet" |
| 05:37.32 | sheepbat | there's more than one unlimited internet plan |
| 05:37.33 | LiraNuna | dsster, no, I don't have a sip account I can use |
| 05:37.47 | sheepbat | there's a very cheap one intended for use with featurephones |
| 05:37.49 | LiraNuna | sheepbat, uh, the 69$/mo one |
| 05:37.56 | jacekowski | that's a lot |
| 05:38.01 | LiraNuna | unlimited everything |
| 05:38.05 | sheepbat | does that come with.. ahh, okay |
| 05:38.06 | dsster | just make a free one using gvoice + sipgate + sipsorcery free incoming + outgoing |
| 05:38.15 | jacekowski | i have unlimited internet with 600 minutes and texts |
| 05:38.15 | LiraNuna | they say unlimited |
| 05:38.20 | jacekowski | for £25 |
| 05:38.27 | sheepbat | I don't use mine as a phone much, so I'd probably save a bunch of money just paying for when I use voice/text |
| 05:38.30 | LiraNuna | !g 25 gbp in usd |
| 05:38.30 | jacekowski | 24mo contract with a phone |
| 05:38.42 | LiraNuna | no googlebot in here? |
| 05:39.03 | jacekowski | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:39.05 | sheepbat | 38 |
| 05:39.19 | jacekowski | and that includes n900 |
| 05:39.45 | DocScrutinizer | googlebot? nah |
| 05:39.45 | LiraNuna | oh wow |
| 05:39.46 | jacekowski | and now they are doing even cheaper contracts |
| 05:40.00 | DocScrutinizer | ~google googlebot |
| 05:40.07 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net) |
| 05:40.10 | DocScrutinizer | not enabled |
| 05:40.12 | LiraNuna | jacekowski, subsidized? |
| 05:40.34 | LiraNuna | jacekowski, I've heard UK being gimped atm on the N900 |
| 05:40.39 | LiraNuna | on something |
| 05:40.43 | jacekowski | gimped? |
| 05:40.54 | DocScrutinizer | ~convert 25 BP to USD |
| 05:41.25 | jacekowski | cheapest tarrif is £15/mo for 24 months + £137 ( for n900 tarrif with unlimited internet ) |
| 05:41.37 | DocScrutinizer | ~convert 25 GBP to USD |
| 05:41.52 | sheepbat | the bot's a little outdated, it seems |
| 05:42.15 | jacekowski | i wish it wouldn't |
| 05:42.24 | dsster | around $38 |
| 05:42.34 | LiraNuna | GBP* |
| 05:42.37 | jacekowski | i prefer 1gbp == 2usd exchange rate |
| 05:43.03 | dsster | hah not yet |
| 05:43.12 | crashanddie | I prefered it when we had 3 dollars to the pound |
| 05:43.16 | crashanddie | (aussie dollar) |
| 05:43.24 | crashanddie | I would've been feckin rich by now. |
| 05:43.55 | jacekowski | there used to be times when it was close to 1gbp == 3 usd |
| 05:44.37 | sheepbat | you do realize it's *good* for the UK to have a weak pound, right? |
| 05:44.43 | sheepbat | well.. it can be, at least |
| 05:44.55 | jacekowski | sort of |
| 05:45.07 | sheepbat | it means people buy british |
| 05:45.32 | jacekowski | but that means as well that it costs more to go abroad |
| 05:45.40 | DocScrutinizer | burps |
| 05:45.42 | sheepbat | true |
| 05:45.56 | sheepbat | it means brits have to buy brit too |
| 05:45.56 | jacekowski | and it means anything that has to be bought abroad is expensive |
| 05:46.17 | jacekowski | it's good thing for country that's absolutely self sufficient |
| 05:46.28 | jacekowski | like china |
| 05:46.33 | sheepbat | yes |
| 05:46.44 | sheepbat | which is why they intentionally lower the value of their currency |
| 05:47.37 | Trizt | anyone know if they will port flashplayer 10 to arm/n900? |
| 05:47.46 | jacekowski | but i don't think that's very good thing for UK |
| 05:48.01 | jacekowski | Trizt: maybe |
| 05:49.05 | jacekowski | http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200811/111708ARMAdobeFlash.html |
| 05:49.14 | jacekowski | they will |
| 05:49.24 | *** join/#maemo bidossessi (~bidossess@41.221.23.177) |
| 05:49.32 | jacekowski | question is when |
| 05:49.41 | Trizt | I hope that not all sites will block old flashplayers before they are finished, adobe been quite slow IMHO |
| 05:50.42 | DocScrutinizer | I'd hope all sites will block *all* versions of flash eventually |
| 05:51.38 | Trizt | DocScrutinizer; yes, but still there are too many idiot "web builders" who thinks flash is good |
| 05:51.52 | DocScrutinizer | hmm yes |
| 05:52.41 | DocScrutinizer | "this site is optimized for MS-Explorer 5.0" |
| 05:52.48 | crashanddie | I say we should remove flash from the N900 as a standard package |
| 05:53.11 | Trizt | DocScrutinizer; :) |
| 05:53.12 | jacekowski | flash is good |
| 05:53.19 | crashanddie | or rather, I have a few apps I'm developping now (waiting for pr1.2, to have pyside and qt 4.6), I'm going to make them conflict with flash |
| 05:53.25 | jacekowski | there is nothing better to make all these fancy ads on web pages |
| 05:53.51 | microlith | wonders why fedora doesn't set up sudo right |
| 05:54.18 | dsster | how is flash on the n900? I've seen different videos, some are laggy and some are just great |
| 05:54.22 | *** join/#maemo Termana_n810 (~Bradley@58.171.239.229) |
| 05:54.44 | Trizt | dsster; I think it's lagish |
| 05:55.20 | Trizt | dsster; but what do you expect from adobe |
| 05:55.45 | dsster | :( |
| 05:55.50 | microlith | boggles at fedora |
| 05:55.53 | MiXu- | It's a bit laggy, but usable anyway |
| 05:56.43 | jacekowski | dsster: flash on linux always had performance issues |
| 05:56.47 | Trizt | microlith; why do you use a developing/testing distro? |
| 05:57.04 | microlith | I'd rather not use RHEL |
| 05:57.14 | jacekowski | dsster: so i'm surprised by how well it's working compared to how it was working year ago on linux |
| 05:57.17 | *** join/#maemo oscillik (~oscillik@cpc1-runc5-2-0-cust188.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 05:57.29 | Trizt | microlith; centos? or use something better like Gentoo ;) |
| 05:57.37 | dsster | jacekowski: agreed. I was suprised it worked so well from the videos i saw |
| 05:57.43 | microlith | sorry, I got over gentoo five years ago |
| 05:57.51 | *** join/#maemo ie (~se@unaffiliated/ie) |
| 05:57.54 | jacekowski | omfg |
| 05:58.01 | jacekowski | i'm fucking stupid |
| 05:58.07 | microlith | I'm impressed though, fedora 12 completely doesn't work right in virtualbox |
| 05:58.10 | jacekowski | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/chromium_5.0.369.2-maemo1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt |
| 05:58.21 | DocScrutinizer | yeah gentoo native ftw, instead of maemo ;-P |
| 05:58.24 | *** join/#maemo Terje (~Terje@a91-152-105-94.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 05:58.53 | microlith | dhcp doesn't work for some reason |
| 05:59.19 | DocScrutinizer | "I'll call you once a week, dear. The remaining time my gentoo is building the weekly snapshot" |
| 06:00.18 | Trizt | microlith; last ok from redhat was RH7.3. At work we dropped Fedora in favour for ubuntu (personally I dislike ubuntu) |
| 06:00.27 | microlith | heh |
| 06:00.32 | microlith | I use ubuntu all over |
| 06:00.57 | dsster | jacekowski: that's what you where waiting for? |
| 06:01.10 | microlith | in fact the issues I'm having now in fedora are largely why I backed away from redhat a while ago |
| 06:01.38 | Trizt | nods |
| 06:01.49 | dsster | line 1: cd: obj-arm-linux-gnueabi: No such file or directory |
| 06:02.13 | microlith | tries a different adaptor type |
| 06:02.49 | jacekowski | dsster: nah i was waiting for OK |
| 06:03.14 | jacekowski | dsster: but it failed because i left out something that shouldn't be there |
| 06:03.22 | jacekowski | but chrome binary was built correctly |
| 06:04.46 | dsster | ah then there is hope yet |
| 06:05.35 | *** join/#maemo Sargun (~Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 06:05.38 | jacekowski | the problem is that it will have to rebuild it again |
| 06:05.49 | jacekowski | whole 1h 40 minutes of building |
| 06:06.04 | *** join/#maemo mirsal (~mirsal@videolan/developer/Mirsal) |
| 06:06.06 | Trizt | sounds like fun |
| 06:06.11 | dsster | :/ |
| 06:06.12 | mirsal | moin |
| 06:06.19 | Trizt | morjes |
| 06:08.29 | jacekowski | maybe less if it's using ccache |
| 06:09.07 | crashanddie | UK Political leader on radio: "Did you know that 54% of 14 year olds have had unprotected sex??" "Erhm, sir, it's actually 5.4%" "Oh, ok, BUT STILL! That's enormous" |
| 06:09.36 | jacekowski | it is |
| 06:09.54 | crashanddie | Not really |
| 06:10.01 | jacekowski | nvm |
| 06:10.06 | jacekowski | i've read it incorrectly |
| 06:10.28 | crashanddie | but I just love how he clings onto his initial argument, even though the base premise is completely false... By an order of 10 xD |
| 06:10.31 | Trizt | crashanddie; maybe the politician had unprotected sex with 54% of all the 14 years olds he bangs |
| 06:11.05 | crashanddie | Trizt: Erhm, this is the UK, not alabama |
| 06:11.25 | dsster | haha |
| 06:11.34 | Trizt | tries to picture the difference ;) |
| 06:12.41 | dsster | I like my woman fully developed |
| 06:12.56 | DocScrutinizer | seems to discover relations between foeca and chrome - both have content hardcoded. |
| 06:13.37 | Trizt | DocScrutinizer; thats why chromium seems to be fast as they already compiled half the internet into it? ;) |
| 06:13.48 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 06:14.03 | Trizt | crashanddie; oh, they speak Spanish in alabama? |
| 06:14.07 | jacekowski | foeca? |
| 06:14.41 | crashanddie | Trizt: eh? |
| 06:14.49 | DocScrutinizer | and when you click a new link, it >>the problem is that it will have to rebuild it again <jacekowski> whole 1h 40 minutes of building |
| 06:14.57 | DocScrutinizer | foreca |
| 06:15.33 | jacekowski | next step will be getting rid of expat out of it |
| 06:15.34 | Trizt | crashanddie; was trying to figure out where uk and alabama differs from eachother |
| 06:15.45 | jacekowski | but that would require new expat in maemo |
| 06:15.55 | jacekowski | but that can be worked around |
| 06:15.56 | *** join/#maemo konttori (~konttori@Maemo/OS/konttori) |
| 06:16.33 | Trizt | Heippa konttori |
| 06:16.56 | crashanddie | Trizt: IQ, art, humour, spelling, pronounciation, film quality, tv quality, we have race car pilots who know how to turn right, as well as left, and we play real sports |
| 06:17.13 | crashanddie | Trizt: now, unless you want to get silenced, I suggest you don't reply |
| 06:17.34 | Trizt | crashanddie; and your fotball is round as a ball should be? |
| 06:19.30 | dsster | no America football is completely different |
| 06:20.00 | DocScrutinizer | yeeha, football the third sequel |
| 06:20.03 | Trizt | you mean rugby for wimps? |
| 06:21.11 | DocScrutinizer | now who's going to utter 'soccer' |
| 06:22.26 | dsster | oh is that wht you call football in the uk? |
| 06:22.49 | Trizt | swamp football, the sport for men |
| 06:24.38 | crashanddie | I just love how tiger woods had to go to a "sex addicts anonymous" meeting |
| 06:25.01 | crashanddie | Though I'm not sure the best way to treat sex addicts is to put them in a room with a bunch of other sex addicts |
| 06:25.09 | Trizt | is it anonymous when you have the world press running after him? |
| 06:25.21 | Terje | crashhanddie, "anonymous". Right. |
| 06:25.31 | DocScrutinizer | konttori: SpeedEvil_ had a great idea about internet assisted 2G<->3G handover |
| 06:25.54 | crashanddie | really, that's akin to going to over-eaters anonymous, and finding out that all the other people are cakes |
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| 06:27.06 | dsster | I don't think that guy is a sex addict at all. Simply sometimes when we have one woman for too long you want to try another one.. it's completely normal. but these days everyone needs treatment for every little thing |
| 06:28.19 | ds3 | anyone see this behavior - power off charger but leave it plugged in the N900. The battery bar animation continues even though there is no power going in and the screen stays active because it still thinkss it is charging? |
| 06:28.24 | Trizt | dsster; now you need treatment against your anti treatment feelings |
| 06:28.54 | LiraNuna | hmm, somehow my toolchain makes huge binaries |
| 06:29.04 | Trizt | ds3; think I have had something like that |
| 06:29.25 | ds3 | Trizt: any work around? |
| 06:29.39 | Trizt | don't unplug the charger |
| 06:29.59 | Stskeeps | ds3: i just saw the same |
| 06:30.00 | Trizt | don't unpower the charger |
| 06:30.03 | Appiah | Will being connected to a vpn (openvpn) drain your battery faster? |
| 06:30.07 | anvith3 | i'm trying to compile flite for maemo N810 in sbox. i want to change the audio driver generated by ./configure to the one used on the device. the contents of config/config file are as follows AUDIODRIVER = alsa |
| 06:30.07 | anvith3 | AUDIODEFS = -DCST_AUDIO_ALSA |
| 06:30.07 | anvith3 | AUDIOLIBS = -lasound |
| 06:30.07 | ds3 | not valid; I am charging in the car from a switched 12V outlet |
| 06:30.08 | Stskeeps | ds3: green light on |
| 06:30.28 | ds3 | Stskeeps: I disabled the green light but have the keep screen on while charging enabled |
| 06:30.41 | dsster | have you guys heard of george carlin? for those that haven't youtube him :) my favorite comedian *interesting topic |
| 06:30.42 | Stskeeps | ds3: :nod: |
| 06:30.53 | Trizt | ds3; manually turn the screen off? |
| 06:31.36 | ds3 | Trizt: if I remember... this is in a car, mobile use |
| 06:31.54 | Trizt | nods, wait and see if there any change in pr1.2 |
| 06:31.59 | ds3 | sigh |
| 06:32.20 | Stskeeps | ds3: just had problem with normal charger as well, so |
| 06:32.26 | ds3 | a seperate charge port would probally have preventing this |
| 06:32.50 | ds3 | Stskeeps: I think my 12V charger is setup the same way as a wall charger |
| 06:33.16 | Stskeeps | it is a bug though |
| 06:33.39 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: add a normal hub, powered from your charger to upstream port, and connect one of the downstream ports with a normal cable to N900 |
| 06:33.47 | Myrtti | oo. I had forgotten I've got admin rights on the wiki. |
| 06:33.51 | Myrtti | oh well. One less spammer |
| 06:33.57 | ds3 | Docscrutinizer: doesn't that limit charge to 500mA? |
| 06:34.04 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 06:34.32 | DocScrutinizer | impact is much lower than you might expect, though |
| 06:34.36 | ds3 | has anyone seen the phone module crash under high load? i.e. CPU pegged for a while then it acts as if there is no coverage at all |
| 06:35.10 | ds3 | DocScrutinizer: in my case, it is quite noticeable as I have a proper USB connection available and that doesn't really keep up |
| 06:35.29 | DocScrutinizer | errm |
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| 06:36.04 | DocScrutinizer | maybe disable the 'keep on while charging' option |
| 06:36.21 | ds3 | I am running GPS + 3G + Mapper and I seem to have a net discharge |
| 06:36.33 | DocScrutinizer | ouch |
| 06:36.44 | ds3 | DocScrutinizer: I am trying to use it as a in car GPS setup so that's not an option |
| 06:37.18 | ds3 | adding Media player w/OGG support to the mix is what was pegging my CPU |
| 06:37.56 | ds3 | so either Mapper has grown fatter since it was Maemo mapper or even the OMAP3 can't keep up with mapping + OGG decode at the same time |
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| 06:38.22 | DocScrutinizer | ds3: if you feel like DIY, then build a custom charge cable (maybe out of a CA-101) where D+ and D- aren't permanently shorted, but rather by a relay that breaks the connection when the 12V is off |
| 06:38.40 | konttori | Trizt: heippa |
| 06:39.10 | konttori | DocScrutinizer: what was your idea? |
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| 06:39.29 | ds3 | DocScrutinizer: maybe that but from an iGo tip+USB setup...easier to work with full size A connectors |
| 06:41.09 | ds3 | nix that idea...it probally won't work since the iGo tip is where the resistor is |
| 06:41.16 | DocScrutinizer | it's been halfway SpeedEvil_ 's idea. Anyway there seems to be no standard for 2G->3G handover, as the modem probably can't poll for 3G BTS while GPRS tarffic is going on. So the idea is to fetch the list of 'neighbour' 3G BTS for a 2G cell from internet. This way the modem has a way to tell if it's a good idea to switch to 3G |
| 06:41.28 | DocScrutinizer | konttori: ^^^ |
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| 06:46.40 | LiraNuna | who is jhakala? |
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| 06:51.34 | DocScrutinizer | konttori: if carriers have a way to check the IMEI in a internet request for 3G neighbours of a 2G cell with their location server that can confirm the IMEI is actually in the queried 2G cell, then probably they would find it's a good idea as they never open up their full network config database to any abuse and they gain better service quality with low TCO (just a few servers with a link to location server) |
| 06:51.42 | crashanddie | LiraNuna: your imaginary friend? |
| 06:51.55 | LiraNuna | crashanddie, ... |
| 06:52.03 | LiraNuna | it shows he compiled GCC for scratchbox |
| 06:52.55 | DocScrutinizer | konttori: and Nokia could be first to offer this with N900 |
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| 06:55.50 | crashanddie | LiraNuna: he's the guy who compiled GCC for scratchbox? |
| 06:55.58 | DocScrutinizer | konttori: or even simpler: as all GPRS traffic is routed via the BTS, the 'server' for the 3G neighbours could be implemented in every BTS software, under a 'local' IP |
| 06:58.30 | DocScrutinizer | konttori: please don't get that wrong, the whole story is based on mere assumptions about how 2G->3G handover actually works. If these assumptions are incorrect, the whole idea might be moot |
| 06:58.39 | ds3 | when the N900 goes from 3G to 3.5, is that a bug? |
| 06:58.57 | DocScrutinizer | huh? |
| 06:59.07 | DocScrutinizer | I'd call it a nice feature |
| 06:59.15 | ds3 | the signal strength indicator |
| 06:59.46 | DocScrutinizer | 3.5 is only detected during real traffic |
| 06:59.51 | ds3 | trying to figure out if it is really going back to EDGE (2.5) where there is a bug updating or is there really such a thing as 3.5? |
| 07:00.20 | DocScrutinizer | 3.5 is HSPA (turbo UMTS) |
| 07:01.31 | ds3 | ah okay |
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| 07:07.43 | LiraNuna | <DocScrutinizer> 3.5 is only detected during real traffic |
| 07:07.54 | LiraNuna | that's why I only see it jumping from 3G to 2.5 |
| 07:08.00 | LiraNuna | 3.5* |
| 07:08.23 | LiraNuna | is it a technical limitation? or driver "problem" ? |
| 07:09.58 | DocScrutinizer | what? the '3.5 only during data traffic'? |
| 07:10.51 | LiraNuna | yeah |
| 07:12.22 | DocScrutinizer | UMTS nees to establish an active connection prior to each transfer. Probably the HSPA property isn't in the standard advertisment of the cell, and is negotiated for each active connection |
| 07:13.00 | DocScrutinizer | anyway I've seen this on other phones as well |
| 07:13.20 | DocScrutinizer | so probably 'tech limitation' |
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| 07:13.52 | LiraNuna | I see |
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| 07:16.03 | kirma | it was the case on e90, and I believe I've heard the thing repeatedly on web forums about other ones too (at least nokia, .fi being so strongly nokia-oriented that there's rather limited interest for other ecosystems as more than just call devices) |
| 07:19.17 | DocScrutinizer | konttori: btw were you able to gather some info about how to get service info from modem, like neighbour cells etc - for onen's openbmap project |
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| 07:52.51 | microlith | wow |
| 07:52.58 | microlith | fedora knows no end of pissing me off |
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| 08:53.19 | crashanddie | Was just at the corner shop, and by slightly remixing the headlines of two newspapers: "Immigrants cause global warming" |
| 08:56.33 | SpeedEvil_ | hmm. |
| 08:57.03 | SpeedEvil_ | wonders if the term cleaner miles could become widely used. |
| 08:58.05 | LiraNuna | N900 is 500MHz or 600MHz? |
| 08:58.09 | frals | god i hate mms |
| 08:58.32 | frals | or rather carrier holding on to the messages for x amount of time for no god damn reason at all |
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| 09:08.15 | lardman | morning |
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| 09:08.36 | *** join/#maemo Ken-Young (~Ken@pool-151-203-32-233.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 09:11.34 | danielsilva | hello #maemo, do you all know if there's been any work to automatically transform normal gtk/qt UIs into mobile-friendly UIs? |
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| 09:11.50 | lardman | what do you mean by automatic? |
| 09:11.58 | danielsilva | i mean by making changes to the UI toolkit |
| 09:12.10 | danielsilva | say, modifying gtk and qt on maemo |
| 09:12.28 | lardman | Anyonw know if I should apt-get upgrade the SDK to pr 1.2 and still be able to build stuff for the pr 1.1.1 image we have |
| 09:12.39 | lardman | danielsilva: ah I see |
| 09:13.00 | lardman | danielsilva: there are some changes if a hildon window is used rather than a gtk window |
| 09:13.16 | danielsilva | lardman: what sort of changes? |
| 09:13.31 | lardman | window looks different |
| 09:14.18 | lardman | anyone else have any better thoughts than mine? |
| 09:14.26 | lardman | as I've not touched GTK+ since last year |
| 09:15.06 | danielsilva | lardman: I was thinking something like this :) http://i.imgur.com/ifotX.png |
| 09:15.33 | danielsilva | that's an LD_PRELOAD shim for gtk, hiding unnecessary parts of the UI |
| 09:15.47 | danielsilva | top right shows a normal gtk app |
| 09:16.28 | danielsilva | on the left (and scaled down on the bottom right) is the same app, but with a modified gtk that hides toolbars, menubars, statusbars, and some group frames |
| 09:16.38 | lardman | yep |
| 09:16.41 | danielsilva | and scrollbars |
| 09:17.27 | danielsilva | i slapped that code together today but not sure where to send these ideas |
| 09:17.34 | lardman | Well that's not what you get with gtk+ here, though there may be some patched components |
| 09:17.45 | lardman | is it gtk? |
| 09:17.54 | lardman | which is being deprecated... |
| 09:17.57 | danielsilva | it's a shared library that intercepts gtk calls |
| 09:18.03 | lardman | (for use in Maemo anyway) |
| 09:18.05 | danielsilva | could do the same for qt or clutter |
| 09:18.37 | lardman | Well it's certainly of interest, and GTK will move to being a community maintained toolkit for use in maemo, so send it to the maemo-developers list |
| 09:18.55 | danielsilva | alright |
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| 09:34.21 | Ken-Young | lardman, Will hildon widgets be community maintained, too? Qt will be the only official toolkit? |
| 09:35.24 | crashanddie | lardman: you should reply to the maemo-community thread regarding documentation |
| 09:36.41 | crashanddie | lardman: highlight spam! Your screen is all red now! |
| 09:36.44 | crashanddie | lardman: happy sunday! |
| 09:37.56 | lardman | hey crashanddie |
| 09:38.17 | lardman | Ken-Young: I think that is supposed to be the case, yes |
| 09:39.35 | lardman | crashanddie: stuff from maemo-community gets moved by my work computer, and Kontact doesn't seem to be able to see deleted but non-purged messages on the IMAP server |
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| 09:45.40 | crashanddie | is that just a complicated way of saying: "Will do tomorrow"? |
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| 09:47.30 | ShadowJK | wonders if imap even has a "deleted and non-purged" state |
| 09:47.38 | lardman | something like that, plus a quick curse of Kontact |
| 09:48.06 | lardman | ShadowJK: hmm, I wonder if that's deleted and non-purged from Outlook's internal db then |
| 09:48.37 | lardman | had never really thought about it, though actually I can still see the emails in deleted and non-purged form from webmail, so they must still be on the imap server |
| 09:49.05 | lardman | checks webmail to see what crashanddie is on about |
| 09:49.19 | lardman | not enough coffee :p |
| 09:51.11 | lardman | crashanddie: The thread from dneary? I don't see any relevance...? |
| 09:51.45 | crashanddie | lardman: no, Andrew's thread "Sprint, your action required" |
| 09:53.45 | lardman | ah, I try to avoid sprints |
| 09:53.53 | lardman | and I'm pretty short on time atm anyway |
| 09:56.45 | crashanddie | mate, your priorities aren't set right I'm afraid |
| 09:56.51 | crashanddie | we need to see a bit more commitment from you |
| 09:57.29 | lardman | lol |
| 10:06.42 | crashanddie | lardman: actually, it has nothing to do with the sprint |
| 10:06.59 | crashanddie | lardman: rather has become a discussion about the organisation of documentation |
| 10:07.10 | lardman | Oh right |
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| 10:07.25 | lardman | well I'm sure I don't really need to stick my oar in too |
| 10:07.40 | lardman | but I'll have a look at the thread later on, once ff has updated itself |
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| 10:11.43 | lardman | hmm, am not fond of the gmane interface to the ml archives |
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| 10:13.18 | lardman | argh! |
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| 10:13.40 | lardman | anyone know how I can just look at a list of the email subjects rather than single days and the whole message? |
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| 10:15.27 | crashanddie | lardman: http://n2.nabble.com/maemo-community-f2589629.html |
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| 10:16.32 | lardman | ah, I was looking for a build log actually, but thanks |
| 10:18.10 | lardman | so, apparently libtool now needs a dep? |
| 10:18.35 | lardman | or rather needs to be added as a dep |
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| 10:22.13 | lardman | bbl, work to do |
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| 10:34.15 | crashanddie | Haha, if your wife catches you wanking to a slurry movie, and she threathens a divorce... Is that "The Porn Ultimatum"? |
| 10:35.53 | frals | lol |
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| 10:53.39 | frals | ~curse tmo for being down |
| 10:53.49 | infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, tmo for being down ! |
| 10:53.49 | lardman | re |
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| 10:55.09 | Termana | tmo is always down |
| 10:55.55 | Termana | They must of misread when they bought the server. It must of said "99% downtime" rather than "99% uptime" |
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| 10:56.11 | lardman | :) |
| 10:56.17 | lardman | probably too many people |
| 10:56.22 | lardman | overloaded |
| 10:56.34 | Termana | probably wishful thinking |
| 10:56.38 | Termana | lol j/k :P |
| 10:59.04 | crashanddie | Termana: MUST HAVE |
| 10:59.24 | Termana | crashanddie: misread? :P |
| 10:59.49 | crashanddie | no, misspelt. It's "Must have said", not "must of said" |
| 10:59.53 | crashanddie | you tool. |
| 11:00.29 | Termana | Ah, i see. Thanks for the tip fag. |
| 11:00.38 | *** mode/#maemo [+o crashanddie] by ChanServ |
| 11:00.41 | *** kick/#maemo [Termana!~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie] by crashanddie (goodbye) |
| 11:00.43 | *** mode/#maemo [-o crashanddie] by ChanServ |
| 11:00.47 | lardman | lol |
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| 11:24.37 | Anti[N900] | hi there |
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| 11:25.28 | Anti[N900] | is it any way to update to new firmware without reflashing? |
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| 11:26.54 | Trizt | Anti[N900]; from the nokia repo |
| 11:28.09 | Anti[N900] | which of? |
| 11:29.11 | Anti[N900] | i've 2 default nokia repos, and it's no new update? |
| 11:29.34 | Anti[N900] | s/?// |
| 11:29.38 | Trizt | it's per default in your add/remove catalogues, you should get a notification about the update as soon as the new version has been released and you are online with the phone |
| 11:30.14 | Trizt | I guess you are waiting for pr1.2, and it's not released yet |
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| 11:31.51 | Anti[N900] | uhm... and what about situation, that some software in maemo devel//testing repo requre new versions of system components |
| 11:32.06 | lardman | that is an ongoing problem |
| 11:32.08 | Anti[N900] | and qt too :) |
| 11:32.10 | Trizt | Anti[N900]; it will tell you that you can't install it |
| 11:32.44 | lardman | though if the packages are built with specific version deps, they should mostly run on pr1.1.1 afaiu |
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| 11:32.56 | lardman | but many aren't |
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| 11:34.05 | Trizt | but shouldn't take too many years until pr1.2 is released and those last dependencies are solved |
| 11:34.26 | lardman | fingers crossed ;) |
| 11:36.41 | lardman | but yeah, should be out soon we all assume |
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| 11:40.10 | Trizt | lardman; you forking up? |
| 11:40.23 | lardman|home | nah, crappy TalkTalk connection |
| 11:41.41 | Trizt | nods |
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| 11:42.52 | lardman | FF is playing up too, but I've read that may be down to FF itself |
| 11:43.06 | lardman | timing out, etc., almost like a DNS problem somewhere |
| 11:44.03 | Trizt | hmmm... checked that the dog haven't chewed your tp-cable? |
| 11:44.20 | lardman | no pets :) |
| 11:44.27 | Trizt | gf? |
| 11:44.30 | lardman | wife |
| 11:44.46 | Trizt | oh, those may chew on cables from time to time ;) |
| 11:44.50 | lardman | lol |
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| 11:55.40 | Anti[N900] | btw, sometimes i think about question, why default N900 partitions table is so terrible? :) |
| 11:56.10 | Trizt | Anti[N900]; for someone was bored at work ;) |
| 12:02.17 | pupnik | if you dont know why, don't assume "terrible" |
| 12:03.00 | SpeedEvil | Anti[N900]: simply an accumulation of design descisios that seemed reasonable at the time. |
| 12:03.29 | crashanddie | awesomeness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp8SOjWFMiU |
| 12:03.38 | Anti[N900] | uhm |
| 12:04.43 | Trizt | :) your car? |
| 12:05.25 | Anti[N900] | and why many software is not optified and installing in "nofreespace" root partition? :) |
| 12:05.28 | Anti[N900] | :)) |
| 12:05.53 | lardman | crashanddie: yeah I saw that on the news |
| 12:05.54 | lardman | nasty |
| 12:06.05 | crashanddie | it's amazing no one was hurt |
| 12:06.11 | lardman | tho was it April the 1st...? |
| 12:06.31 | jacekowski | btw. https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/chromium_5.0.369.2-maemo1/armel.build.log.OK.txt |
| 12:06.38 | crashanddie | lardman: would surprise me, it was documented on good news week on march 25th |
| 12:06.51 | lardman | ok, just wondering |
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| 12:09.53 | Trizt | jacekowski; does it work? |
| 12:10.06 | jacekowski | kinda |
| 12:10.20 | Trizt | what's not working as supposed? |
| 12:10.44 | jacekowski | input/ no kinteic scrolling/ |
| 12:10.45 | jacekowski | mhm |
| 12:10.47 | jacekowski | fullscreen |
| 12:10.49 | jacekowski | no zoom |
| 12:11.12 | jacekowski | well, no zoom with volume keys |
| 12:11.23 | jacekowski | i hope to fix most of that today |
| 12:11.46 | Trizt | okey, that's not too bad, my volume buttons don't work in all apps anyway |
| 12:12.07 | jacekowski | it will hopefully appear in repo in couple minutes |
| 12:12.53 | Trizt | okey, I'll maybe test it, this far I have been kind of disappointed with the alternative browsers |
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| 12:14.04 | jacekowski | only thing i can say |
| 12:14.08 | jacekowski | that it's really fast |
| 12:14.23 | jacekowski | esspecialy javascript performanc |
| 12:14.24 | jacekowski | e |
| 12:14.56 | Trizt | thats something positive then |
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| 12:15.31 | lardman | cool |
| 12:15.33 | lardman | well done then |
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| 12:23.10 | lardman | so what's the take with this overclocking? |
| 12:23.12 | lardman | safe? |
| 12:23.42 | jacekowski | no |
| 12:26.01 | Trizt | how unsafe is it? |
| 12:26.35 | Trizt | you need a 2000mm 10000rpm fan to do it safe? |
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| 12:27.01 | Trizt | neads tea |
| 12:27.05 | pupnik | i was told not to, so i wont |
| 12:27.15 | lardman|home | ~lart TalkTalk |
| 12:27.15 | infobot | offers TalkTalk some herring |
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| 12:28.03 | jacekowski | Trizt: very unsafe |
| 12:28.15 | jacekowski | Trizt: it drasticaly reduces lifespan of cpu |
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| 12:28.43 | jacekowski | Trizt: and it's like from 500 years at 400MHz to 200h on 700MHz |
| 12:29.06 | naxu | is there already documented cases where device has bricked from overclocking? |
| 12:29.57 | jacekowski | it won't fail straight away |
| 12:30.09 | jacekowski | just couple days/weeks later |
| 12:30.34 | jacekowski | and then people will start - lol omg wtf my n900 is broken |
| 12:30.38 | naxu | i guess overclocking instructions have been around for about week now |
| 12:30.44 | jacekowski | instead of - i've broken my device by OC |
| 12:30.49 | naxu | so first should be visible soon |
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| 12:31.11 | naxu | if it really is so harmfull for cpu / other parts |
| 12:31.38 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: |
| 12:31.55 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: another OC fan |
| 12:32.12 | Trizt | sadly you can't just change the cpu to one of those newer dualcores |
| 12:32.48 | Trizt | but I would have been a little bit happier if the n900 was a lite bit faster on switching to a higher frequency when on load |
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| 12:33.54 | pupnik | certain websites will always be slow - it is part of their business model to be slow |
| 12:34.02 | jacekowski | repository is broken |
| 12:34.29 | jacekowski | i've checked and no single package has been added today |
| 12:34.38 | RST38h | no point |
| 12:34.51 | RST38h | autobuilder builds packages with unsatisfiable dependencies |
| 12:34.58 | Trizt | pupnik; yes, and some make software slower so that you have to buy more powerful hardware |
| 12:35.22 | RST38h | But you can whine on bug ##9752 |
| 12:35.24 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9752 Autobuilder links against uninstallable libraries |
| 12:35.45 | pupnik | Trizt: i was thinking of fadt loading ads and slow loading content |
| 12:36.34 | Trizt | pupnik; okey, I almost never notice those differences as privoxy filters the adds away for me |
| 12:38.05 | pupnik | hehe |
| 12:38.49 | FIQ | have you heard about applications fail in fullscreen mode like this before: when program is active, a new "unknown" window is created and force switched to, and the program window dies. The new window shutdown itself when going to task switcher |
| 12:38.55 | Trizt | I still remember the old good time, no ads and no frames on the web pages |
| 12:39.44 | wolf^ | I still can't understand people not using the old good adblock |
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| 12:40.31 | SpeedEvil | pages are supported by ads. |
| 12:40.53 | Trizt | wolf^; all browsers don't support it, so better have privoxy, works for all browsers as far as I know |
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| 12:41.20 | RST38h | We've been there before, and intermediate layers between the platform and the developer ultimately produces sub-standard apps and hinders the progress of the platform.' (c) Steve Jobs |
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| 12:43.27 | pupnik | i dont want apps to become totally webcentric either. give me offline capability to get things done |
| 12:44.49 | Trizt | pupnik; but thats the way to pay for the license in the future |
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| 12:45.19 | naxu | sometimes network just doesnt work |
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| 12:50.49 | crashanddie | "Here it comes, here it comes" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLQ5p7u2JdI&feature=related |
| 12:50.53 | crashanddie | woops, wrong link |
| 12:51.10 | crashanddie | right link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQN9SdvO-vs |
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| 12:58.18 | FIQ | libsdl-mixeroggwav1.2-dev have unmet deps, libc6-dev and libsdl1.2-dev (version 1.2.4 or more), where can i find those? |
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| 13:04.27 | pupnik | nobody interested in patching up bundyo's gemrb package eh |
| 13:04.40 | pupnik | its hardly a candidate for autobuilder atm |
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| 13:13.12 | RST38h | pupnik: Well, I am not releasing anything to autobuilder until 1) they fix it to produce installable packages or 2) PR1.2 is released |
| 13:13.27 | RST38h | pupnik: No ETA on either, so app development stalled |
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| 13:14.14 | pupnik | i actually played some nethack. falcons eye is that good |
| 13:14.53 | pupnik | wondering if ui can be made still easier for noobs |
| 13:15.00 | RST38h | prolly not |
| 13:15.11 | RST38h | they will be better off playing a simpler game |
| 13:15.19 | pupnik | yeah |
| 13:15.49 | pupnik | which reminds me, qauozl's pygame netrek can run on n900, but needs ui work |
| 13:16.10 | lardman | RST38h: do you know if libtool now has to be added as a dep for packages to build? |
| 13:16.36 | RST38h | lardman: No idea, but I do not think it will make any difference |
| 13:17.04 | lardman | just that a new build I sent in doesn't want to build, was wondering if this is an effect of the SDK upgrade |
| 13:17.27 | pupnik | get on the phone with X-Fade or whomever |
| 13:17.32 | lardman | version upgrade, same debianisation files, etc but with version bum[ |
| 13:17.47 | lardman | yeah, am also not so bothered until we see PR 1.2 tbh |
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| 13:18.38 | RST38h | pupnik: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_video_games |
| 13:19.27 | RST38h | pupnik: some not yet ported rpgs there |
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| 14:06.15 | wazd_e63 | Heya maemo :) |
| 14:06.22 | wazd_e63 | Long time no see :) |
| 14:07.42 | RST38h | moooo wazd |
| 14:07.46 | RST38h | how are things? |
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| 14:09.46 | wazd_e63 | Rst38h: heya |
| 14:10.13 | wazd_e63 | Rst38h: fixed ti84+ screen, but forgot to send it to you :( |
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| 14:11.02 | wazd_e63 | Rst38h: still don't see the solution for buttons |
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| 14:12.32 | FIQ | libsdl-mixeroggwav1.2-dev have unmet deps, libc6-dev and libsdl1.2-dev (version 1.2.4 or more), where can i find those? |
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| 14:19.39 | RST38h | wazd: Maybe stylize buttons so that they look approximately but not exactly like the real thing? |
| 14:19.56 | RST38h | wazd: autobuilder is broken, so I cannot release this stuff anyway, any time soon |
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| 14:21.42 | RST38h | wazd: in brighter news, seems that there is Chromium for Maemo5 and it is said to be pretty speedy |
| 14:22.18 | FIQ | has it |
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| 14:22.37 | FIQ | and it works fine |
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| 14:23.00 | wazd_e63 | Rst38h: well, maybe, but it look so cool now :( |
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| 14:24.08 | wazd_e63 | Rst38h: my sister is tearing herself appart, cause now she realized how much could she save buying a laptop thru you in us :) |
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| 14:26.29 | wazd_e63 | Rst38h: some vaios has almost $+1k pricetags in here |
| 14:27.10 | lcuk | hey ho \o |
| 14:27.20 | lcuk | you been busy beaver wazd_e63 ? |
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| 14:27.58 | FIQ | hm, anyone? |
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| 14:33.24 | wazd_e63 | Lcuk: hey there |
| 14:33.39 | wazd_e63 | Lcuk: yeah, lots of stuff to do |
| 14:33.46 | *** join/#maemo zs (~zs@188-220-50-10.zone11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 14:33.55 | *** join/#maemo pwnguin (~jldugger@75-23-241-171.lightspeed.kscymo.sbcglobal.net) |
| 14:33.58 | *** join/#maemo pwnguin (~jldugger@ubuntu/member/jldugger) |
| 14:34.15 | wazd_e63 | Lcuk: since I'm a one man army :) |
| 14:34.26 | RST38h | wazd: Should have just bought an ASUS |
| 14:34.33 | RST38h | wazd: Or, eeek, Samsung |
| 14:34.37 | javispedro | moo, gentleman |
| 14:34.45 | RST38h | moo indeed, javispedro |
| 14:34.51 | wazd_e63 | Rst38h: samsung? Wut? :D |
| 14:35.00 | wazd_e63 | Javispedro: heyaa |
| 14:35.20 | RST38h | cackles evilly, while copying latest Dr Who, Stargate, and Fringe to his N900 |
| 14:35.48 | wazd_e63 | Rst38h: Aw, just saw premiere episodes of sgu |
| 14:36.01 | RST38h | wazd: Get the Doctor |
| 14:36.07 | wazd_e63 | Or sonething like that |
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| 14:36.34 | RST38h | wazd: SGU is nice (I mean nicer than previous SG series) but too bland |
| 14:36.41 | Trizt | wazd_e63; seen all the episodes this far and still feels like nothing has happen in sgu |
| 14:37.02 | RST38h | Trizt: Nothing will, it is just the new StarTrek |
| 14:37.12 | wazd_e63 | Rst38h: don't have much time for this stuff, just had a terrible hangover yesterday, so could't work at all :) |
| 14:37.16 | javispedro | what could happen with such a premise? |
| 14:37.20 | RST38h | wazd: eh! |
| 14:37.21 | Trizt | even startrek had more action |
| 14:37.44 | RST38h | Trizt: It is all about psychological suspense! |
| 14:38.03 | Trizt | must have missed that |
| 14:38.05 | RST38h | Trizt: US military culture vs US corporate culture vs US government culture |
| 14:38.19 | RST38h | Trizt: With poor grunts caught in between =) |
| 14:38.40 | wazd_e63 | Trizt: I guess it's not much about action, but some senseless shiny stuff :) |
| 14:38.41 | wazd_e63 | Also ckecked out 1st episode of V |
| 14:39.00 | RST38h | is eagerly awaiting some kind of political correctness crisis on SGU |
| 14:39.25 | wazd_e63 | mix of characters from lost and this series bout two plastic surgerers :) |
| 14:39.30 | RST38h | wazd: Not the same as the ancient series about rodent-eating aliens? |
| 14:39.50 | wazd_e63 | Rst38h: dunno :) |
| 14:40.05 | wazd_e63 | Rst38h: nobody was eaten yet :) |
| 14:40.21 | Trizt | wazd_e63, RST38h; it has similarities with the original series |
| 14:40.36 | RST38h | wazd: The original V was kinda nice, like US eagerly copying Russian WWII movie with aliens instead of germans =) |
| 14:40.55 | wazd_e63 | Rst38h: well, at least they are crocodiles, covered with human skin |
| 14:41.26 | *** join/#maemo panaggio (~panaggio@200-158-190-11.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 14:41.59 | RST38h | wazd: Yea, that is the thing, right from the original V |
| 14:42.18 | wazd_e63 | Rst38h: since V has only 9 episodes, I guess they failed :) |
| 14:42.23 | RST38h | wazd: Another cute piece of trivia about V: "The script was presented to NBC, for production as a television mini-series, but the NBC executives rejected the initial version, claiming it was too "cerebral" for the average American viewer. To make the script more marketable, the American fascists were re-cast as man-eating extraterrestrials, taking the story into the realm of science fiction." |
| 14:42.38 | javispedro | :) |
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| 14:43.01 | wazd_e63 | Hehe :) |
| 14:44.39 | Trizt | will watch some crappy episodes of ST:Voyager |
| 14:45.10 | wazd_e63 | Trizt: somach problems? :D |
| 14:45.16 | wazd_e63 | Stomach* |
| 14:45.36 | Trizt | No, not yet :P |
| 14:45.53 | RST38h | Then why do you want to throw up? |
| 14:46.12 | Trizt | See how long I can hold it down |
| 14:46.40 | wazd_e63 | Trizt: oh, that's an old drunk party game :D |
| 14:47.25 | Trizt | didn't knwo, just had those drink when someone does something wrong in starwars |
| 14:48.41 | Trizt | it's quite horrible, but ST:V seems to be todays best program on telly |
| 14:49.05 | wazd_e63 | Rst38h: and bout laptop: she needs it for status showcasing too, so no cheap look :) |
| 14:49.45 | Trizt | wazd_e63; skinnit.com? |
| 14:50.14 | wazd_e63 | Trizt: do they work with mother russia too? :) |
| 14:50.39 | *** join/#maemo Zetro (~Zetro@d83-183-202-119.cust.tele2.se) |
| 14:50.43 | Trizt | just special order and you can cover whole russia |
| 14:50.50 | wazd_e63 | Trizt: and what do they do anyway, I'm on the phone with 5k bucks per meg |
| 14:51.27 | Trizt | they have "stickers" for different devices, so you can have designed look |
| 14:51.40 | wazd_e63 | Trizt: aw, pfff :) |
| 14:51.44 | Trizt | or some hilarious family photo |
| 14:52.01 | wazd_e63 | Trizt: NO cheap look :D |
| 14:52.08 | Trizt | :D |
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| 14:52.41 | wazd_e63 | Trizt: I thought they can make some custom leather or metal casing :) |
| 14:53.03 | RST38h | wazd: ASUS builds some laptops that look nicely, in spite of being made of shit and vapors |
| 14:53.36 | wazd_e63 | Rst38h: she's found HP elitebook 2530p |
| 14:53.37 | RST38h | wazd: See bamboo series |
| 14:53.41 | Trizt | wazd_e63; sure, they can use some pattern to make it almost look like that |
| 14:53.56 | RST38h | isn't sure what that HP is. They all look like bricks covered in blue lights to him |
| 14:54.21 | javispedro | likes older thinkpads |
| 14:54.28 | Trizt | HP is the utter crap, I will sell mine if someone dares to want to buy it |
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| 14:56.53 | RST38h | Trizt <-- obviously never used Lenovo ;) |
| 14:56.56 | Trizt | Even the Chinese think HP is crap, not just thinking of that video where a customer jumped on his laptop as HP refused to repair it, but that Chinese government has closed down factories where they produced HP laptops, as the factories did make so low quality product that the government thought it was hurting the Chinese reputation. |
| 14:57.17 | RST38h | looks over the list of proposed GSoC apps, sadly |
| 14:57.33 | RST38h | So much trying to win Google's attention there... |
| 14:57.59 | RST38h | So many copycats, too |
| 14:58.00 | Trizt | No, I haven't. I'm thinking about a Nokia one, but only if it runs ARM or some other none 8080 based CPU |
| 14:58.48 | wazd_e63 | Trizt: still it's the only laptop that fits her requirements: light, 13", durable, expensive looking :) |
| 14:58.56 | *** join/#maemo sheepbat (~lev3k@c-98-238-227-32.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 14:58.59 | RST38h | Every third applicant proposes to develop an eBook reader. |
| 14:59.10 | RST38h | Every second applicant wants to develop "something for the cloud" |
| 14:59.12 | wazd_e63 | Rst38h: meh |
| 14:59.27 | Trizt | :) |
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| 14:59.59 | wazd_e63 | Rst38h: so there is a guy that develops eBook reader for the cloud?) |
| 15:00.48 | Trizt | wazd_e63; that must be the most important application this millenium |
| 15:01.45 | wazd_e63 | trizt: sure it is |
| 15:01.55 | wazd_e63 | Cloudreader 3000 |
| 15:01.57 | Trizt | I think I'll buy at least 100 |
| 15:02.06 | RST38h | wazd: Prolly |
| 15:02.31 | RST38h | wazd: It makes perfect sense, the book is in the cloud, the user has no access to it, he can just read it, on the cloud... |
| 15:02.53 | *** part/#maemo orbarron (~orb@nat/ti/x-toufznhsxambtrjp) |
| 15:03.03 | Trizt | on the other hand an unreader application had been good, so you could reread a book as if you read it for the first time |
| 15:03.38 | lcuk | Trizt, as you get older you find you can read books you once knew |
| 15:04.01 | lcuk | unreader is natural - it has a name also: senility |
| 15:05.07 | lcuk | im sure ive heard about some sort of cloud based document viewer |
| 15:05.10 | RST38h | Lots of Meego in the Maemo GSoC too |
| 15:05.13 | lcuk | but its name eludes me |
| 15:05.27 | RST38h | considers marking down all Meego proposals out of sheer spite =) |
| 15:05.47 | RST38h | Ah, let us not be evil (C)Google |
| 15:06.25 | Trizt | lcuk; can you remind me which ones to read in a couple of years? |
| 15:06.44 | lcuk | Trizt, birth certificate is always a good read |
| 15:07.01 | lcuk | the characters in it are somehow important |
| 15:07.07 | Trizt | nah, then you get just so damn depressed when you know how old you are |
| 15:07.09 | lcuk | but i cant remember why |
| 15:07.10 | pupnik | what about meego on some of these android phobnez |
| 15:07.27 | pupnik | strikes questioning rapper pose |
| 15:07.35 | RST38h | pupnik: We do not even have a usable Meego on N900s... |
| 15:07.41 | xorAxAx | so which CPU will have the first meego device? |
| 15:07.57 | lcuk | does some sort of rapper hand gesture - fo' sur pupnik |
| 15:08.07 | lcuk | lol RST38h |
| 15:08.15 | pupnik | well izm sayzin the mode de emploi on them should be considured |
| 15:08.29 | crashanddie | mode d'emploi |
| 15:09.34 | crashanddie | lcuk: you fraud! |
| 15:09.35 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (~mardi_@95.141.187.81.in-addr.arpa) |
| 15:09.46 | Trizt | pupnik; it could be an improvement with a xterm for a phone used to run android |
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| 15:09.55 | crashanddie | From: Gary |
| 15:10.06 | crashanddie | "We are China based company explicitly active for iPhone software programming solutions and Mobile Application Development services as well as wireless application (WAP) development." |
| 15:10.13 | crashanddie | I KNEW IT! |
| 15:10.20 | RST38h | Now it is iPhone solutions? |
| 15:10.27 | RST38h | It has been web design, then PHP |
| 15:10.30 | pupnik | sure why not run android from meego kernel |
| 15:10.47 | pupnik | or am i being wrong |
| 15:10.48 | crashanddie | anyway, have a good one all |
| 15:10.52 | pupnik | cu crashanddie |
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| 15:13.19 | gopalakr | am a noob in n900 development, anyone can tell hws best to begin ? |
| 15:13.34 | RST38h | 1. Install Ubuntu Linux |
| 15:13.44 | RST38h | 2. Get Maemo SDK and install it onto Ubuntu Linux |
| 15:13.51 | Treibholz | use 32bit |
| 15:13.51 | RST38h | 3. Follow tutorials from maemo.org |
| 15:14.06 | RST38h | 4. Do get a real device, as debugging under SDK is kinda useless |
| 15:14.32 | crashanddie | or download the VM that contains the dev env pre-installed. |
| 15:14.35 | gopalakr | yep using karmic ubuntu 9.1, using virtualbox for 32 bit , do have a device... |
| 15:14.51 | RST38h | you do not need virtual box |
| 15:14.55 | gopalakr | which tutorial ? any url... too much there |
| 15:14.57 | RST38h | all you need is ubuntu |
| 15:15.17 | gopalakr | really ? i had trouble with scratchbox on 64 |
| 15:15.34 | crashanddie | I love it when people on tmo say "I don't understand, I have offered a solution on brainstorm, but people (amongst which respectable community members) have downvoted my proposal... I don't understand" |
| 15:16.29 | RST38h | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide |
| 15:16.31 | javispedro | always though brainstorm-like applicacions are not very useful |
| 15:17.14 | javispedro | see the ubuntu one |
| 15:17.14 | pupnik | ideas are cheap |
| 15:17.14 | RST38h | javispedro: But they let the people responsible claim that they have done their job, without implementing any proposed changes |
| 15:17.21 | RST38h | ideas are like assholes, everybody has one |
| 15:17.24 | gopalakr | cool ok.. |
| 15:17.29 | *** join/#maemo jreznik (~jreznik@36.173.broadband6.iol.cz) |
| 15:17.39 | RST38h | gopalakr: Do not use 64bit OS |
| 15:18.02 | RST38h | (not sure why you would be using it anyway) |
| 15:18.04 | javispedro | ah, using a 64bit OS is just fine, but then you will spend more time developing scratchbox instead of maemo apps :) |
| 15:18.31 | gopalakr | yea |
| 15:18.44 | Treibholz | 64bit is OK, just a tick harder to setup the SDK |
| 15:19.03 | gopalakr | i mean 64bit is not trivial atleast for the lay to semi literate developers |
| 15:20.02 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) |
| 15:20.28 | lupine_85 | uses 64-bit + scratchbox |
| 15:20.32 | lupine_85 | took no time at all to set up |
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| 15:21.29 | RST38h | uses scratchbox2 |
| 15:23.25 | gopalakr | Id love to see a one-stop ducumentation for support on 64 bit,, |
| 15:23.42 | gopalakr | the hacks i meant |
| 15:23.46 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (~mardi_@95.141.187.81.in-addr.arpa) |
| 15:23.50 | *** join/#maemo geek00l_ (~geek00l@175.144.169.210) |
| 15:23.56 | javispedro | if you reaaaaaaaaaaly want 64 bit just do it and come here to complain when it does not work (it's what everyone does after all :P ) |
| 15:24.16 | javispedro | then hope someone recognizes the problem and posts the solution |
| 15:25.00 | javispedro | shudders. nokia is still suggesting to disable vdso. |
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| 15:26.13 | *** join/#maemo anvith3 (~anvith3@117.200.98.15) |
| 15:26.27 | trip0 | vdso? |
| 15:26.39 | *** join/#maemo nicu (~nicu@212.103.70.50) |
| 15:27.12 | javispedro | virtual dynamic shared object |
| 15:27.13 | Stskeeps | javispedro: that is more of a qemu problem though |
| 15:27.32 | javispedro | Stskeeps: it's a glibc problem for all I know |
| 15:28.24 | RST38h | has no idea what vdso is |
| 15:28.47 | RST38h | but the whole scheme of running half the sdk executables in qemu sounds like a potential clusterfuck |
| 15:28.57 | javispedro | what linux uses to enable support for sysenter |
| 15:29.05 | FIQ | hm, anyone that can solve my dep problem? |
| 15:29.31 | Stskeeps | javispedro: in newer kernels you do not ned to disable vdso |
| 15:29.37 | anvith3 | i was trying to install Firefox 1.0.0 on a N810 and the operation failed because there wasn't enough memory on the device. Now the device has entered a reboot loop and gets as far as the home screen and stops responding an then reboots. i have advaced power mgmt installed and it shows a red empty battery icon and before connecting to the apmd daemon it reboots |
| 15:29.54 | *** join/#maemo amit_usual (vattam@190.120.226.89) |
| 15:30.00 | anvith3 | what do i do? |
| 15:30.15 | javispedro | Stskeeps: I think I pointed that on a bug report; the issue is that the glibc-2.3.2 sbox ships doesn't work with _randomized_ vdso. Nokia's suggestion is to disable vdso entirely support. |
| 15:30.38 | javispedro | Stskeeps: but it works with the older fixed, "compat" vdso. |
| 15:30.59 | javispedro | http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/sbox/rtld-vdso-assertion.patch |
| 15:31.11 | javispedro | (this patch to sbox's glibc fixes it...) |
| 15:31.27 | javispedro | unfortunately it takes more than 24 hours to build in the debian-sarge vm. |
| 15:32.39 | anvith3 | anubody? |
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| 15:44.33 | jacekowski | why builder is broken |
| 15:48.25 | *** join/#maemo deca (~user@host81-129-251-232.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:51.11 | *** join/#maemo b-man (~b-man17@pool-98-115-104-62.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 15:52.59 | javispedro | 2,285 posts in o/c thread :( |
| 15:53.22 | jacekowski | i think you meant, break my phone thread |
| 15:55.35 | xorAxAx | o/c? |
| 15:55.49 | Termana | xorAxAx: overclock |
| 15:56.15 | xorAxAx | wow |
| 15:56.54 | *** join/#maemo tgalal (~tarek@41.178.140.245) |
| 15:57.46 | DocScrutinizer | probably spinning in circles after every 89 posts |
| 15:58.00 | RST38h | javispedro: The Tentacled One is feeling triumphant today! |
| 15:59.49 | DocScrutinizer | well, in the end it's healthy darwinism |
| 16:03.06 | Jaffa | javispedro: Can I put you as point man on http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council for "PR1.2 autobuilder"? |
| 16:03.32 | javispedro | Jaffa: I think so |
| 16:03.53 | Jaffa | javispedro: Cool, we could probably do with an update to the wiki page or thread about the experiments you & X-Fade have been doin |
| 16:04.09 | javispedro | ok, will expand on that |
| 16:04.51 | *** join/#maemo dougt (~dougt@c-24-130-158-216.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
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| 16:05.46 | Jaffa | javispedro: Done :-) |
| 16:06.05 | *** join/#maemo adalal1 (~aritra@cpc4-clif8-2-0-cust778.know.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 16:07.28 | jacekowski | i'm giving up on free |
| 16:07.44 | javispedro | so, from now on gentlemen, redirect all libhildon1 dependency complains to me :) |
| 16:07.55 | jacekowski | if my package doesn't appear there before .deb finishes building i'm sending binary to non-free |
| 16:07.57 | *** join/#maemo TomaszD (~Tomasz@Maemo/community/contributor/TomaszD) |
| 16:07.58 | *** join/#maemo z4chh (~zach@dhcp-128-194-74-49.resnet.tamu.edu) |
| 16:08.07 | Shapeshifter | huh. it says here that placing a call locks the cpu at 600mhz until the other side picks up |
| 16:08.11 | Shapeshifter | this seems very daft |
| 16:08.18 | Shapeshifter | and possibly dangerous |
| 16:08.41 | jacekowski | where does it say so? |
| 16:08.53 | Jaffa | javispedro: Probably want to add yourself as CC on ihttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9752f you haven't already :-( |
| 16:08.53 | povbot | Bug 9752f: could not be retrieved: InvalidBugId |
| 16:09.02 | javispedro | bug 9752 |
| 16:09.03 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9752 Autobuilder links against uninstallable libraries |
| 16:09.12 | javispedro | yeah, read it this morning |
| 16:09.17 | Shapeshifter | jacekowski: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=601691&postcount=1823 well okay that's not the best source I know |
| 16:09.42 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) |
| 16:10.42 | *** join/#maemo lopz (~gentoo@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 16:11.16 | lopz | hi |
| 16:11.20 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@95.149.124.153) |
| 16:11.28 | PhonicUK | hey all |
| 16:11.43 | jacekowski | Shapeshifter: "Maybe we should file a bug report (if someone can confirm my observation with a stock kernel)?" |
| 16:11.58 | jacekowski | Shapeshifter: nobody confirmed it on stock kernel so far |
| 16:12.16 | pupnik | yay |
| 16:12.37 | PhonicUK | i am the southern most IRC user in mainland england! |
| 16:13.38 | DocScrutinizer | heh, why not OC to 1GHz on placing a call? Maybe other end picks up faster then :-P |
| 16:13.41 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@starfury.spearlink.com) |
| 16:15.27 | t-tan | 600Mhz lock has been confirmed for stock kernel http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=601725&postcount=1828 |
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| 16:16.37 | t-tan | If haven't been following the OC thread - it has become the undervoltage thread |
| 16:16.43 | javispedro | how much time does your telco allow to ring without answering? |
| 16:17.05 | javispedro | *the other end answering, of course. |
| 16:17.16 | t-tan | we're now running 500Mhz with the voltage uses for Idle. so we set min. freq to 500 |
| 16:17.40 | Shapeshifter | that sounds clever |
| 16:17.53 | jacekowski | besides, 600MHz is safe |
| 16:18.01 | Shapeshifter | I see that undervolting works quite well. no instabilities? |
| 16:18.04 | t-tan | javispedro: haven't tried ringing for more than 1h :) |
| 16:18.08 | jacekowski | phone is running at that frequency when you are playing games or something |
| 16:18.10 | javispedro | pft. |
| 16:18.21 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: there's no hard standard |
| 16:18.30 | javispedro | yeah, my telco cuts at 2-3 minutes |
| 16:18.35 | t-tan | Shapeshifter: yes, flawless so far |
| 16:18.45 | jacekowski | t-tan: does it improve battery life? |
| 16:18.59 | t-tan | jacekowski: we're running tests. give us some days... |
| 16:20.19 | t-tan | and we can run 850 with the same voltage uses for 500Mhz. could be safe OC |
| 16:20.34 | t-tan | s//stock/ |
| 16:21.18 | jacekowski | it still increases current |
| 16:22.00 | DocScrutinizer | sets up autokickban on regex '.* safe .* OC .*' and '.* OC .* safe .*' |
| 16:22.09 | t-tan | jacekowski: yep, but if it's less than 600MHz with stock it should be fine |
| 16:22.20 | jacekowski | t-tan: no |
| 16:22.40 | jacekowski | t-tan: there is lot more things to it than just current |
| 16:22.54 | jacekowski | t-tan: higher frequency causes current to flow differently as well |
| 16:22.57 | t-tan | I know electromigration... |
| 16:23.15 | t-tan | but nobody knows how much it really affects lifetime. |
| 16:23.34 | *** join/#maemo ceyusa (~ceyusa@95.61.238.167) |
| 16:23.39 | t-tan | maybe in 2 years we know...:) |
| 16:23.41 | DocScrutinizer | well, TI knows for sure |
| 16:23.58 | jacekowski | do a HALT test and tell us |
| 16:24.11 | *** join/#maemo booiiing (~booiiing]@cl-959.dus-01.de.sixxs.net) |
| 16:24.23 | DocScrutinizer | they had enough chips to burn, and they definitely have the knowhow |
| 16:25.08 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B-N900 (~C-S-B@89.243.176.249) |
| 16:25.13 | t-tan | every chip is different. bad chips won't run stable with undervoltage... |
| 16:25.25 | DocScrutinizer | so what? |
| 16:25.54 | DocScrutinizer | that's what selection in fab is for |
| 16:26.36 | t-tan | it's only for the minimum requirements. some N900 owners are more lucky than others... |
| 16:26.54 | javispedro | exactly -- they're not idiots one has to assume. if more than, say, 25% of the chips worked fine at a lower voltage they would market them so for sure. |
| 16:26.58 | Shapeshifter | t-tan: does the increased idle clock increase smoothness significantly? isn't it just a placebo effect? |
| 16:27.03 | javispedro | exactly to Doc :) |
| 16:27.14 | DocScrutinizer | of coure sometime chip manufs 'label down' higher rated chips, if they are in a pinch and some big customer places big order |
| 16:27.52 | jacekowski | Shapeshifter: changes in clock causes cache flush |
| 16:28.04 | jacekowski | Shapeshifter: so it is possible |
| 16:28.10 | t-tan | Shapeshifter: honestly, I can't tell. maybe if I had to N900 to compare simultaenously |
| 16:28.26 | DocScrutinizer | but I'd believe in that only if a test on a 1000-base of samples was done in a scientific manner |
| 16:28.35 | Shapeshifter | mhh. I'm looking forward to some tests. |
| 16:29.02 | t-tan | DocScrutinizer: just send me a 1000 sample :) |
| 16:29.06 | noobmonk3y | anyone used the listWidget.editItem() command in pyqt before? having a few issues with it, and not sure if i need to pass anything? |
| 16:29.32 | noobmonk3y | self.listWidget.editItem(string) or do i need self.listWidget.editItem(selectedrow,string) ? |
| 16:29.48 | DocScrutinizer | t-tan: hahaha, it's not *my* hobby to OC-fry the device |
| 16:30.18 | DocScrutinizer | t-tan: you know, I have other means to kill my N900 :-P |
| 16:30.38 | noobmonk3y | w00t_, :D - any ideas on a listwidget.editItem? :D |
| 16:30.54 | *** part/#maemo dougt (~dougt@c-24-130-158-216.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 16:30.55 | lcuk | noobmonk3y, try both |
| 16:30.57 | noobmonk3y | the page just says (QListWidgetItem item) |
| 16:31.09 | noobmonk3y | lol lcuk have tried but confuzzled |
| 16:31.14 | t-tan | but this is the only way to turn it into a cigarette lighter |
| 16:31.25 | lcuk | so you pass it a ref to the item you want to become editable? |
| 16:31.30 | noobmonk3y | doesnt make sense to just pass an item and not a string to change it too? |
| 16:31.54 | lcuk | no - that call would appear to me to be the one to start interactive editing on an item |
| 16:32.19 | lcuk | to change the text of an item programmatically, isnt there a settext or similar property on the listitem itself? |
| 16:32.44 | *** join/#maemo Hibernica (~chatzilla@188-222-253-84.zone13.bethere.co.uk) |
| 16:32.44 | noobmonk3y | hmmmm will try that :D |
| 16:33.36 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~fernando@190.68.1.196) |
| 16:37.11 | *** join/#maemo Arkenoi (~ark@81.200.10.87) |
| 16:38.03 | *** join/#maemo andrei1089 (~andrei108@86.121.168.17) |
| 16:38.03 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@host211-35-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 16:39.31 | noobmonk3y | yay works! |
| 16:39.34 | noobmonk3y | thanks lcuk |
| 16:39.37 | noobmonk3y | again....... ;) |
| 16:39.44 | noobmonk3y | self.listWidget.currentItem().setText |
| 16:40.09 | noobmonk3y | got it so if i click some of the items in healthcheck they auto-update :D |
| 16:40.17 | noobmonk3y | things like accelerometer etc :D |
| 16:42.06 | *** join/#maemo ml-mobile (~wat@32.174.175.162) |
| 16:44.03 | frals | noobmonk3y: whenever you need to know what you can do with an object just do print dir(instanceofobject) |
| 16:44.42 | noobmonk3y | ahhhhh thatks frals :D |
| 16:44.49 | noobmonk3y | very usel to know :D |
| 16:45.06 | *** join/#maemo booiiing (~booiiing]@cl-959.dus-01.de.sixxs.net) |
| 16:45.07 | noobmonk3y | i find the trolltech riverside websites ok, but can be very confusing seeing it done in C, and not in pyqt |
| 16:45.40 | Arkenoi | looks like unlucky me got a device that does not work properly when both smartreflex and sleep_mode are enabled :-/ |
| 16:45.48 | Arkenoi | previous one was ok |
| 16:48.59 | Shapeshifter | well that's odd. after a reboot, free space on rootfs dropped from 25 to 15... |
| 16:50.10 | DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: hmm, actually that's odd |
| 16:57.17 | *** join/#maemo hcarrega (~hcarrega@a85-139-128-194.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 16:58.13 | *** join/#maemo user__ (~user@cpe-76-173-12-28.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 16:58.20 | *** part/#maemo user__ (~user@cpe-76-173-12-28.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 16:58.36 | noobmonk3y | :| |
| 16:58.42 | noobmonk3y | my rootfs does do random things too |
| 16:58.44 | noobmonk3y | :( |
| 16:58.54 | *** join/#maemo Gadgetoid_mbp (~phil@cpc3-nrwh9-2-0-cust561.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 16:59.01 | noobmonk3y | not much on at the moment and it's up to 41mb free, no repos enabled :| |
| 16:59.13 | noobmonk3y | time for a reflash :D |
| 16:59.43 | DocScrutinizer | noobmonk3y: damn, that's not windows! |
| 16:59.49 | *** join/#maemo andrei1089 (~andrei108@86.121.181.225) |
| 16:59.53 | noobmonk3y | hehe :P |
| 17:00.11 | noobmonk3y | probably healthcheck eating my device apart ;) |
| 17:00.24 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 17:00.51 | DocScrutinizer | rm -rf /tmp/* |
| 17:01.58 | *** join/#maemo geneven (~user@cpe-76-173-12-28.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 17:03.13 | noobmonk3y | lol :P |
| 17:03.59 | noobmonk3y | right off for din's :D |
| 17:04.01 | noobmonk3y | is away |
| 17:04.39 | *** join/#maemo adan_ (~adan@host81-154-240-134.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:09.28 | *** join/#maemo PhonicUK (~PhonicUK@95.149.124.153) |
| 17:09.30 | PhonicUK | hey all :D |
| 17:09.42 | PhonicUK | I am the southern most Maemo user in the whole of Mainland England! D: |
| 17:11.11 | *** join/#maemo ScriptRipper_ (~mmohring@p4FDBBA99.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:11.36 | *** join/#maemo ScriptRipper_ (~mmohring@p4FDBBA99.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:11.57 | noobmonk3y | lol PhonicUK |
| 17:12.00 | noobmonk3y | south cornwall? |
| 17:12.03 | PhonicUK | yeah |
| 17:12.08 | PhonicUK | take a look: |
| 17:12.09 | noobmonk3y | kathy is redruth way i think |
| 17:12.11 | PhonicUK | http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/bpfoq/the_southern_most_reddit_post_in_mainland_england/ |
| 17:12.26 | *** join/#maemo ScriptRipper_ (~mmohring@p4FDBBA99.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:12.28 | PhonicUK | I posted that from near Lizard Point |
| 17:12.33 | *** join/#maemo S-Wo (~swo@p54AEC24C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:12.36 | PhonicUK | the absolute bottom of the country |
| 17:12.37 | noobmonk3y | cool, not been there in years :D |
| 17:12.54 | PhonicUK | i got a signal at the top of The Lizard Lighthouse |
| 17:12.59 | noobmonk3y | right back to heading out lol |
| 17:15.41 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu) |
| 17:17.25 | *** join/#maemo jayabharath (~a0866114@nat/ti/x-gqodkmdnkfqwbsol) |
| 17:19.43 | *** join/#maemo nsuffys (~sabayon5@45.244.146.195.dynamic.adsl.abo.nordnet.fr) |
| 17:21.05 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-121-96-161.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
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| 17:23.59 | *** join/#maemo sttwister (~sttwister@81.18.92.10) |
| 17:24.56 | lcuk | PhonicUK, have you checked on the map |
| 17:25.05 | PhonicUK | ? |
| 17:25.35 | PhonicUK | what do you mean |
| 17:25.38 | lcuk | pininthemap.com/maemo |
| 17:26.16 | lcuk | or rather, added it there |
| 17:26.31 | *** join/#maemo adan (~adan@host81-135-7-62.range81-135.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:26.41 | PhonicUK | well im only on holiday so im not sure it counts |
| 17:26.44 | *** join/#maemo FIQ (~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq) |
| 17:26.56 | lcuk | sure it does! |
| 17:27.07 | lcuk | :D |
| 17:27.09 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil1 (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 17:27.47 | PhonicUK | how do i add a point? |
| 17:27.53 | PhonicUK | ah nm |
| 17:29.21 | PhonicUK | Whats the "master pin password" ? |
| 17:30.20 | lcuk | shotgun |
| 17:30.39 | PhonicUK | done :D |
| 17:30.41 | PhonicUK | its on the map |
| 17:31.07 | *** join/#maemo Abhinav1 (~Abhinav1@unaffiliated/abhinav1) |
| 17:31.47 | *** join/#maemo sleipnir (~sleipnir@p4FDD1185.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:32.06 | lcuk | heh PhonicUK |
| 17:32.14 | PhonicUK | upvote my reddit post :D |
| 17:32.25 | lcuk | not got an account |
| 17:32.57 | korhojoa | hmm. i have a question: will just undervolting the n900 void it's warranty? |
| 17:33.11 | Arkenoi | if my phone gives spontaneous 32_wd reboots if both enable_off_mode and smartreflex are set, which one to choose to get better battery life? |
| 17:33.35 | RST38h | disable smartreflex |
| 17:35.56 | *** join/#maemo kkb1101 (~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu) |
| 17:36.09 | *** join/#maemo nomadalien (~reja@d217179.upc-d.chello.nl) |
| 17:39.46 | *** part/#maemo nomadalien (~reja@d217179.upc-d.chello.nl) |
| 17:42.06 | DocScrutinizer | korhojoa: no, it won't |
| 17:42.54 | *** join/#maemo Cazou (~detlev@host-213-213-221-24.brutele.be) |
| 17:44.29 | *** join/#maemo FlavioFerreiraBR (~Flavio@189.71.127.208) |
| 17:44.52 | jacekowski | why maemo repositories are broken? |
| 17:44.56 | jacekowski | all of them |
| 17:45.08 | jacekowski | i've sent package 8h ago to free and nothing so far |
| 17:45.15 | jacekowski | and same to non-free while ago |
| 17:45.22 | jacekowski | and nothing happened as well |
| 17:45.55 | RST38h | is getting cryptic emails in arabic |
| 17:45.58 | DocScrutinizer | usual weekend DDoS? |
| 17:46.12 | pupnik | i vote that community council members must decide on supreme ruler with a hotdog or hamburger eating contest |
| 17:46.56 | *** join/#maemo murselaydin (~murselayd@85.103.250.119) |
| 17:47.11 | RST38h | pupnik: I would actually prefer a baloon fight |
| 17:47.24 | RST38h | it is more spectacular. |
| 17:47.51 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: or the 770s need ointment and for that the whole repo is down until the oilcan is empty X-P |
| 17:49.05 | jacekowski | since 9th of april there was nothing added/updated |
| 17:49.51 | DocScrutinizer | maybe somebody finally is fixing the 1.2-madness |
| 17:50.37 | DocScrutinizer | though I wouldn't hold my breath for that |
| 17:51.30 | pupnik | webcam if you do |
| 17:51.46 | RST38h | Doubt it |
| 17:52.04 | RST38h | It does look like nobody cares |
| 17:55.04 | pupnik | i care a little bit about many things and a lot about a few |
| 17:58.27 | *** join/#maemo andrei1089 (~andrei108@86.121.181.127) |
| 18:01.11 | *** join/#maemo auenf (David@218-214-2-63.people.net.au) |
| 18:01.57 | *** join/#maemo slackmagic (1000@unaffiliated/slackmagic) |
| 18:01.57 | *** join/#maemo mlpug (~mlpug@a88-115-164-40.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:02.31 | *** join/#maemo spliffy_ (~spliffy@p4FE95DC0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:05.45 | aSIMULAtor | +++++00000000000000000000000000000000000000 |
| 18:05.48 | *** join/#maemo dmj726_n9001 (~user@63.252.66.182) |
| 18:05.50 | *** join/#maemo marcus_ (~marcus@0x573ebd02.cpe.ge-0-2-0-1104.mrbnqu1.customer.tele.dk) |
| 18:05.53 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@62.219.120.20) |
| 18:05.59 | marcus_ | Hmm, is it normal that my brightness change randomly? |
| 18:06.09 | *** join/#maemo amit_usual (vattam@190.120.226.89) |
| 18:06.10 | marcus_ | Sometimes when messing around on it, it suddenly goes darker, and sometimes brighter |
| 18:06.17 | *** join/#maemo pobega (~pobega@student-214-112.sunyit.edu) |
| 18:06.18 | GAN900 | marcus_, it has an ambient light sensor. |
| 18:06.26 | marcus_ | GAN900: Aha! (: Thankie |
| 18:06.41 | Jaffa | jacekowski: Raised a bug, or asked X-Fade? |
| 18:06.54 | jacekowski | X-Fade: |
| 18:07.04 | jacekowski | X-Fade: why are repositories broken? |
| 18:07.15 | lcuk | jacekowski, some people rest at weekend |
| 18:07.27 | lcuk | and their irc clients die before they get back to them |
| 18:07.34 | lcuk | write an official bug report please |
| 18:07.37 | lcuk | something that wont get lost |
| 18:07.46 | jacekowski | i'll make sure that won't get lost |
| 18:08.46 | marcus_ | Anyone tried the OpenArena port for n900? Saw it in the app list today. |
| 18:08.52 | *** join/#maemo shvedsky (~pavel@gw.zunet.ru) |
| 18:10.00 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (~fernando@190.68.1.196) |
| 18:11.17 | MohammadAG | marcus_, no but I tried Quake 3 (same engine) |
| 18:11.49 | marcus_ | MohammadAG: Dunno though if OpenArena has been just-as-much optimized, as it's recently been added to the repositories. |
| 18:12.13 | MohammadAG | not really |
| 18:12.18 | MohammadAG | it's been there for about 4 months |
| 18:12.21 | MohammadAG | I think.. |
| 18:12.24 | marcus_ | o.o |
| 18:12.32 | marcus_ | I oughta read all the apps one-by-one. |
| 18:13.00 | MohammadAG | marcus_, 2009-10-17 14:22 UTC |
| 18:13.08 | marcus_ | :3 |
| 18:13.09 | marcus_ | Soz. |
| 18:13.21 | marcus_ | How is it though to be playing it? Hard with accelerometer movement? |
| 18:13.42 | MohammadAG | Very lol, got pwned by my mate who was using a kb and a mouse on his PC |
| 18:13.50 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@g1.blanicka25.net) |
| 18:13.52 | marcus_ | Haha! Ofc :P |
| 18:13.58 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre) |
| 18:14.17 | marcus_ | Could be epic though to go to a LAN party with your friends, while they are coming with their PCs+KB+Mouse and then you just drag out your N900 ;) |
| 18:14.30 | lcuk | we do that anyway |
| 18:14.36 | marcus_ | :3 |
| 18:15.15 | marcus_ | BTW, is it using OpenGL ES? |
| 18:15.26 | pupnik | if you could compete using a n900, that would be epic |
| 18:15.39 | marcus_ | Indeed (: |
| 18:15.55 | _llll_ | sounds like a good way to ruin eyesight |
| 18:16.21 | lcuk | _llll_, plug n900 into projector and run apps on cinema size projector :) |
| 18:16.34 | lcuk | video out FTW :D |
| 18:16.50 | MohammadAG | _llll_, it's ruined here anyways :P |
| 18:16.56 | _llll_ | i tried that with my tv, but it's a bit odd trying to move the mouse |
| 18:17.00 | pupnik | now i know why US folks prefer a portrait mode phone. |
| 18:17.08 | _llll_ | err, well not mouse but scrolling etc |
| 18:17.11 | pupnik | they need one hand for wanking. |
| 18:17.17 | marcus_ | pupnik: Rofl |
| 18:17.22 | Shapeshifter | is pleased with his trivial mpd controlling widgets http://stuff.moritzg.ch/Screenshot-20100411-201147.png |
| 18:18.00 | lcuk | Shapeshifter, :) |
| 18:18.03 | *** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (Smily@BSN-143-112-41.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 18:18.11 | *** join/#maemo ml-mobile (~wat@32.174.175.162) |
| 18:18.26 | pupnik | nice |
| 18:18.56 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (~david@c-67-174-39-138.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 18:18.58 | range | etter readability than cutempc ... :) |
| 18:19.00 | range | *better |
| 18:19.13 | pupnik | Shapeshifter: can you do a "add current track to some list" or "delete current track"? |
| 18:19.47 | Shapeshifter | pupnik: would sure be possible. it's just the desktop command execution widget with some mpc | sed stuff |
| 18:20.31 | pupnik | is there a "delete" or "add current track to some list" in the protocol? |
| 18:20.39 | Shapeshifter | mpc del <songpos> |
| 18:20.43 | Shapeshifter | it's all in man mpc |
| 18:20.54 | Shapeshifter | (ohwait, the n900 doesn't have mandb :P) |
| 18:21.11 | flux | maybe someone could hack a net-based man alternative ;) |
| 18:21.48 | pupnik | ty. bouncy like fresh noodles. |
| 18:23.48 | Shapeshifter | a pity that all the widgets are in the same thread :| |
| 18:25.27 | *** join/#maemo crs (~crs@gentoo/user/crs) |
| 18:27.14 | RST38h | Hmm...tmo fell into gerbilling |
| 18:27.40 | RST38h | That looks like the end of it. |
| 18:28.18 | *** join/#maemo ftrvxmtrx (~i515i@87.252.227.4) |
| 18:28.49 | pupnik | lol what? |
| 18:29.38 | pupnik | were someone's expectations not met? stop the internet! :P |
| 18:30.29 | korhojoa | hm. I tried the xlv kernel |
| 18:30.38 | korhojoa | i don't notice anything except that it now idles at 500 |
| 18:30.42 | korhojoa | power savings ahoy? |
| 18:31.09 | MohammadAG | korhojoa, USB cable connected? |
| 18:31.32 | korhojoa | it's always at 500 mhz |
| 18:31.48 | t-tan | korhojoa: the ideal or the normal xlv? |
| 18:31.49 | korhojoa | unplugged it just two seconds before you asked |
| 18:31.51 | korhojoa | ideal |
| 18:32.02 | korhojoa | stuck in a powerconfig thing to set it to never go higher than 500 |
| 18:32.04 | korhojoa | seems to be working |
| 18:32.05 | t-tan | korhojoa: yes, 500 is the default |
| 18:32.24 | korhojoa | since it's now at a low voltage, it should be fine |
| 18:32.32 | t-tan | it runs 500 with very low voltage |
| 18:32.33 | korhojoa | i mean, it's always at 500 when connected via usb |
| 18:32.46 | t-tan | yes, that the case for all kernels incl .stock |
| 18:33.00 | korhojoa | ah. but does it up the voltage then too? |
| 18:33.25 | t-tan | when and why? |
| 18:35.08 | korhojoa | I mean, they have different voltage settings. that's what the different speed 'tiers' are on the stock kernel |
| 18:35.30 | korhojoa | since this kernel now has two tiers, does that mean that it goes to the higher one? |
| 18:35.43 | t-tan | check the details on http://wiki.maemo.org/Overclocking#Installation_of_the_latest_experimental_kernels |
| 18:39.30 | *** join/#maemo ad-n770 (~somebody@24.Red-80-26-22.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 18:40.44 | *** join/#maemo zs (~zs@188-220-50-10.zone11.bethere.co.uk) |
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| 18:43.28 | DocScrutinizer | flux: maybe someone can compile a mandb pkg for maemo? |
| 18:44.24 | MohammadAG | wonders if that's easy... |
| 18:44.46 | flux | docscrutinizer, I was thinking something like #!/bin/sh man =( curl "http://man.pages.net/man/$1" ) using zsh syntax, but better |
| 18:45.17 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@83.149.9.41) |
| 18:45.30 | korhojoa | can't you just alias that |
| 18:45.32 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil_ (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 18:46.03 | flux | sure, once you have a service that gives out raw man pages based on manual page name |
| 18:46.14 | flux | and add some support for sections.. |
| 18:46.23 | *** join/#maemo ioeee (~x@81.39.206.3) |
| 18:46.26 | korhojoa | fun thing to do when testing stuff: ssh in and do "watch ./overclock.sh" if you have the script from the post in the current directory |
| 18:47.39 | *** join/#maemo C-S-B-N900 (~C-S-B@89.243.176.249) |
| 18:49.20 | marcus_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:49.43 | RST38h | yes |
| 18:49.50 | marcus_ | goodie. |
| 18:50.11 | korhojoa | god damnit |
| 18:50.26 | korhojoa | i did watch -n0 by mistake. |
| 18:50.32 | korhojoa | don't do this, kids. |
| 18:51.17 | Lynoure | tell them why as well, otherwise curiousity will kill some of the cats. |
| 18:51.36 | DocScrutinizer | I'd bet watch is spoiling results for a cpuclk freq statistics |
| 18:52.26 | korhojoa | because you set the refresh to 0, and watch is a relatively simple program, if the thing you are watching too is very simple, it will cause a tight loop which runs until it catches an exception, which won't be caught since the cpu is too busy completing the watch command instead of listening to key input (or ssh) |
| 18:52.48 | korhojoa | DocScrutinizer: not really |
| 18:52.49 | DocScrutinizer | points to powertop and likes to think there's been a bit of sensible considerations behind the design |
| 18:52.54 | korhojoa | it's been fairly nice |
| 18:52.55 | flux | it seems doubtful to me that is the correct interpretation of the situation :-o |
| 18:53.07 | flux | because there are no realtime priorities involved, right? |
| 18:53.17 | Lynoure | exactly what I thought it would do... but weird watch even allows 0 |
| 18:53.28 | korhojoa | yes. this was confusing to me too |
| 18:53.57 | korhojoa | it also does not allow a value which is not divisible with 1 |
| 18:54.08 | flux | korhojoa, how about that it produced so much output that the terminal's processing became saturated? |
| 18:54.11 | korhojoa | eg. 0.5/2.5 |
| 18:54.23 | korhojoa | flux: that is possible too. didn't think of that. |
| 18:54.31 | korhojoa | actually, that's probably more likely |
| 18:54.33 | *** join/#maemo shinkamui (~KamN900@ip68-11-94-155.no.no.cox.net) |
| 18:54.37 | jacekowski | looks like somebody already reported that bug |
| 18:54.37 | jacekowski | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98897 |
| 18:54.38 | povbot | Bug 98897: was not found. |
| 18:54.38 | korhojoa | seeing as i was using ssh |
| 18:54.44 | jacekowski | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9889 |
| 18:54.45 | povbot | Bug 9889: Autobuilder does not upload packaged to extras-devel |
| 18:55.00 | marcus_ | RST38H: GTKmm as well? (GTK+ for C++) |
| 18:55.23 | korhojoa | damnit. |
| 18:55.43 | flux | the n900 watch doesn't appear to use curses, so it most likely redraw the screen fully every time |
| 18:55.47 | korhojoa | why does nano-tiny not put in a alias (or symlink) to nano if nano isn't installed |
| 18:55.58 | flux | without that -n0 would likely be well usable |
| 18:56.04 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~Javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 18:56.20 | flux | (hm, or 'with that ncurses-support') |
| 18:57.15 | MohammadAG | is building man-db |
| 18:57.27 | MohammadAG | surprised there are no dependencies missing |
| 18:57.57 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 18:58.30 | *** join/#maemo andrei1089 (~andrei108@86.121.179.137) |
| 18:59.40 | korhojoa | someone should port uprecords to maemo |
| 19:01.07 | *** join/#maemo geaaru_ (~geaaru@host128-220-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:01.08 | *** join/#maemo dmj726_n900 (~user@63.252.66.189) |
| 19:01.36 | lcuk | i think im going to make a cheerleading ircbot |
| 19:01.49 | lcuk | that responds to "can someone port ..." or similar |
| 19:01.58 | lcuk | to encourage op to do it |
| 19:02.15 | lcuk | korhojoa, if it matters to you, get involved and make a start |
| 19:02.29 | korhojoa | lcuk: i'm lazy and think i'll just try the package from lenny |
| 19:02.38 | lcuk | good idea |
| 19:02.51 | lcuk | some apps work nicely when just brought over and recompiled |
| 19:03.08 | lcuk | the package itself wont tho i believe |
| 19:04.00 | korhojoa | http://packages.debian.org/lenny/libuptimed0http://packages.debian.org/lenny/libuptimed0 |
| 19:04.06 | korhojoa | no? :| |
| 19:04.10 | korhojoa | let's see |
| 19:05.08 | DocScrutinizer | flux: for some manpages I really don't see I'd ever find it useful to have then rom internet only - ifconfig comes to mind |
| 19:05.23 | *** join/#maemo otubo (~otubo@201.82.64.155) |
| 19:05.24 | DocScrutinizer | From |
| 19:05.34 | flux | docscrutinizer, yes. but that's the rarest case. |
| 19:05.40 | Jaffa | lcuk: We need to recruit RevdKathy as an MWKN contributor |
| 19:06.29 | lcuk | jaffa mwn could have public submissions ala slashdot? |
| 19:06.44 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, you get the rope, lcuk gets the chair, and I'll get a set of those cool eyelid things from a Clockwork Orange? |
| 19:06.55 | korhojoa | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:06.58 | DocScrutinizer | nevertheless one single rare case moots the whole concept. If I need mandb then I need mandb and if I got it, why go for internet based manpages then? |
| 19:07.00 | korhojoa | :/ |
| 19:07.02 | _llll_ | flux: 'curl -s http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?"$1" | less' more or less usable |
| 19:07.10 | lcuk | korhojoa, i told you |
| 19:07.14 | lcuk | it still needs recompilation |
| 19:07.23 | korhojoa | what's the darn difference |
| 19:07.30 | korhojoa | they've both got arm in the name :( |
| 19:07.32 | lcuk | and thats only if the wind is in your direction and everything is fine |
| 19:08.06 | flux | _llll_, wel, you could use lynx to handle the HTML |
| 19:08.08 | lcuk | korhojoa :) |
| 19:09.03 | korhojoa | fine. let's try --force-architecture then |
| 19:09.23 | Treibholz | what is the equivalent of .bashrc for ash? .ashrc doesn't work. |
| 19:09.25 | marcus_ | I know this is kinda C++ related, but I'm working on a SDL snake game for my n900, and for some reason whenever it touches wall (when it's supposed to be game-over) it does a segmentation error. |
| 19:09.25 | marcus_ | http://pastebin.com/VEFB5m6X |
| 19:09.30 | marcus_ | Why is that? (: |
| 19:09.32 | Jaffa | lcuk: Public submissions are a case of someone doing "@mwkn" on Twitter. |
| 19:09.46 | *** join/#maemo rdorsch (~rd@p5B201F18.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:10.37 | *** join/#maemo ghostcube_maemo (~Ghost@p5B2D407D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:11.24 | ghostcube_maemo | hi is it possible to get freoffice installed? |
| 19:11.28 | lcuk | so something like "generalantilles smells of elderberries @mwkn" would make it to the front page? |
| 19:11.42 | korhojoa | damn you, apt. that's not right: 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 379 to remove and 4 not upgraded. |
| 19:11.59 | ghostcube_maemo | apt is cool :) |
| 19:12.00 | _llll_ | flux: hmm, is lynx installed? i guess could just launch microB or something |
| 19:12.15 | ghostcube_maemo | damn the ones made the packages |
| 19:12.18 | ghostcube_maemo | hehe |
| 19:12.22 | lcuk | korhojoa, :) |
| 19:12.22 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, an editor has to review the public submissions. |
| 19:12.26 | flux | marcus_, perhaps you should try debugging it on a PC with valgrind |
| 19:12.34 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, only authorized users' submissions get picked up by the bot. |
| 19:12.34 | lcuk | you know how to flash stuff |
| 19:12.49 | lcuk | yeah GeneralAntilles but cos its truthful it should be front paged instantly :p |
| 19:12.57 | marcus_ | flux: never heard of that, but I'll take a look at it. |
| 19:14.24 | korhojoa | what the hell. just looked at my rootfs. 14M available?! |
| 19:14.50 | Treibholz | korhojoa: apt-get clean |
| 19:15.04 | korhojoa | wow. 6 megs |
| 19:15.18 | lcuk | you added lenny packages list too didnt you |
| 19:15.29 | *** join/#maemo mikhas (~michael@cs78145066.pp.htv.fi) |
| 19:15.42 | korhojoa | never! |
| 19:16.09 | ghostcube_maemo | you tried move script? |
| 19:16.30 | lcuk | looks sideways |
| 19:16.45 | korhojoa | ghostcube_maemo: yeah. i moved wireshark to opt |
| 19:16.47 | DocScrutinizer | flux: alias man 'dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest="com.nokia.osso_browser" --print-reply /com/nokia/osso_browser/request com.nokia.osso_browser.load_url string:"http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?$1"' |
| 19:17.04 | korhojoa | DocScrutinizer: that's pretty awesome |
| 19:18.18 | *** join/#maemo joppu (~joppu@cs181126155.pp.htv.fi) |
| 19:18.18 | korhojoa | :/dbus-send: Data item "bash" is badly formed |
| 19:18.26 | *** join/#maemo gjl (~gjl@cpc1-seve21-2-0-cust257.13-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 19:18.32 | flux | you actually need to put that as a shell function |
| 19:18.35 | _llll_ | alias cannot have arguments |
| 19:18.53 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, sorry. Was an instrument-flight |
| 19:19.29 | korhojoa | I mean, alias man='stuff' should be correct? |
| 19:19.34 | _llll_ | if you put it in a script, remeber to quote the $1 in case someone does "man "foo;rm -rf $HOME" |
| 19:19.40 | flux | man() { dbus-send ... } |
| 19:19.42 | *** join/#maemo zs_ (~zs@188-220-50-10.zone11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:19.45 | DocScrutinizer | flux: man () {'dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest="com.nokia.osso_browser" --print-reply /com/nokia/osso_browser/request com.nokia.osso_browser.load_url string:"http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?$1"'} |
| 19:19.55 | flux | docscrutinizer, almost ;) |
| 19:20.12 | *** join/#maemo Aranel_ (~Aranel@88.229.254.215) |
| 19:20.58 | flux | hmm, actually does the shell support defining shell functions that way |
| 19:21.16 | ghostcube_maemo | i thinj |
| 19:21.24 | ghostcube_maemo | bash 3 does |
| 19:21.26 | korhojoa | syntax error. |
| 19:21.30 | _llll_ | yeah, dnot think busybox does |
| 19:21.40 | flux | foo() { echo foo } -> syntax error |
| 19:21.50 | korhojoa | nor does bash on mine |
| 19:21.55 | flux | does it have some other syntax? |
| 19:21.56 | DocScrutinizer | func foo {...} |
| 19:21.59 | korhojoa | (from repo) |
| 19:22.05 | _llll_ | tru function foo() { ...} but i doubt it works |
| 19:22.45 | _llll_ | also variosu combinations of spaces/no spaces between foo () and { |
| 19:23.06 | flux | maybe it supports them only in files |
| 19:23.33 | _llll_ | i rmemerb trying some script with functions and it didnt work |
| 19:23.45 | _llll_ | but that script had lots of bashisms so cant remember why now |
| 19:23.57 | DocScrutinizer | function xxx { echo xXxX; } |
| 19:24.10 | flux | well, /etc/init.d/ is filled with functions using the foo() {\n ..\n} way and they work |
| 19:24.58 | _llll_ | oh, no (), yay posix |
| 19:25.08 | korhojoa | holy ... , new lehto post: 1150mhz, 0x48, TALK ABOUT OVERVOLTAGE?! |
| 19:25.23 | ghostcube_maemo | wut? |
| 19:26.25 | t-tan | korhojoa: the last words lehto could write with his N900... |
| 19:26.40 | ghostcube_maemo | haha |
| 19:26.44 | MohammadAG | oh wow, free space 8kb |
| 19:26.48 | MohammadAG | I need a new HDD |
| 19:26.54 | _llll_ | what do these people run on their overclocked phones? |
| 19:27.05 | flux | SETI @ Home, obviously |
| 19:27.05 | MohammadAG | MicroB ;) |
| 19:27.24 | ghostcube_maemo | crysis |
| 19:27.42 | ghostcube_maemo | .-. |
| 19:27.47 | b-man | fedora 12 :D |
| 19:27.57 | t-tan | _llll_: photoshop on wine on qemu |
| 19:28.02 | trumee | anybody tried sip over vpn? Does the sip uri need a private address like 50@192.168.1.1 or should it refer to public address like 50@xx.dyndns.org |
| 19:28.33 | pupnik | i just have non-vpn sip to a fixed ip addr |
| 19:28.34 | MohammadAG | t-tan, while emulating x86, since wine doesn't run on ARM devices :) |
| 19:28.36 | Treibholz | would prefer more RAM, than a faster CPU |
| 19:28.43 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (~murrayc@host-88-217-185-158.customer.m-online.net) |
| 19:28.47 | Treibholz | SWAP is used all the time |
| 19:29.07 | _llll_ | i'd like to "overclock" the physical size of the screen |
| 19:29.09 | t-tan | MohammadAG: that's why I listed qemu |
| 19:29.10 | trumee | openvpn works fine for email/browser but sip registration doesnt go through tunnel. And i am indeed using scripts from famous bug 1860. |
| 19:29.11 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1860 Won't pass through VPN |
| 19:29.17 | DocScrutinizer | is amazed people get the more excited about ultimately bricking they N900 the fewer they understand about how it works. The N900 free fly app also got quite some attention, but it was too obvious which parameters would cause a break |
| 19:29.18 | hrw | morning |
| 19:29.19 | MohammadAG | t-tan, oh thought it was some app :p |
| 19:29.37 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 19:29.44 | pupnik | how about all portable manufacturers refuse to implement javascript or flash, forever |
| 19:29.46 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, overclocking is good, to a certain degree |
| 19:29.52 | korhojoa | DocScrutinizer: free fly? |
| 19:29.54 | MohammadAG | (ok it does shorten lifetime) |
| 19:29.59 | Treibholz | pupnik: that would be great! |
| 19:29.59 | Wizzup | Anyone who is using a BT keyboard for N900? I want one but I'm not sure what ones are compatible. I currently have a freedom keyboard here, but I can't get it to work. |
| 19:30.05 | MohammadAG | korhojoa, it measures how much you can throw the N900 |
| 19:30.06 | ghostcube_maemo | yeah to 800 mhz should work |
| 19:30.07 | korhojoa | DocScrutinizer: ah, the throwing one? |
| 19:30.27 | DocScrutinizer | has other means to shorten lifetime. Preferrably his own :-P |
| 19:30.28 | pupnik | we can dream, Treibholz |
| 19:30.32 | MohammadAG | ghostcube_maemo, any frequency should work, but it will shorten lifetime |
| 19:30.49 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, well you shortened your lifetime *ahem* :P |
| 19:30.53 | Treibholz | pupnik: even on my netbook it's a pain |
| 19:30.57 | MohammadAG | your N900's lifetime* |
| 19:31.02 | jacekowski | pupnik: how would i watch my porn on n900? |
| 19:31.11 | ghostcube_maemo | yeah but isnt it by factory testet for this arm that 800 work ok? |
| 19:31.12 | jacekowski | pupnik: without flash |
| 19:31.14 | Treibholz | jacekowski: zooporn? |
| 19:31.18 | korhojoa | hmm. the xlv ideal kernel should not shorten lifetime if it's not overclocking, right? |
| 19:31.22 | SpeedEvil | jacekowski: use a stand. |
| 19:31.31 | _llll_ | jacekowski: that's "overcoking", not "overclocking" |
| 19:31.35 | MohammadAG | ghostcube_maemo, no, OC damage is HW damage |
| 19:31.35 | _llll_ | err, overcokcing |
| 19:31.41 | _llll_ | bah, cant type |
| 19:31.49 | t-tan | korhojoa: nope. if you set max to 600 you're totally safe |
| 19:32.19 | GAN900 | ghostcube_maemo, it's rated for 600MHz and not fulltime |
| 19:32.20 | flux | when does the maximum hz is taken into use? |
| 19:32.21 | MohammadAG | t-tan, wouldn't that cause his N900 to run slower than stock? |
| 19:32.33 | flux | or would it still be overclocked before pmconfig is run? |
| 19:32.35 | SpeedEvil | t-tan: no. |
| 19:32.38 | MohammadAG | (lower voltage at 600 max) |
| 19:32.52 | SpeedEvil | t-tan: If it goes at 600MHz - it goes at 600MHz - voltage is irrelevant. |
| 19:32.56 | ghostcube_maemo | sure i know it teps from 250 to 600 |
| 19:32.59 | SpeedEvil | (othe than to power consumption) |
| 19:33.04 | ghostcube_maemo | i see it in conky |
| 19:33.08 | GAN900 | ghostcube_maemo, even the speedbinned OMAP3530s are only rated for 720MHz |
| 19:33.27 | ghostcube_maemo | hmm ok |
| 19:33.49 | ghostcube_maemo | damn i killed the clip for my n900 case |
| 19:33.53 | t-tan | SpeedEvil: max=limit, not the minimum. it the same limit the stock has |
| 19:33.56 | ghostcube_maemo | grml |
| 19:34.13 | hrw | but the good thing is that next beagleboard (beagleXM) will not use omap3530 ;D |
| 19:34.54 | ghostcube_maemo | where can i get the missing qt libs for koffice |
| 19:36.11 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (~Valerio@Maemo/community/council/VDVsx) |
| 19:36.19 | korhojoa | SpeedEvil: so it doesn't matter what voltage it uses if it's still going too fast for too long? |
| 19:36.42 | Arkenoi | ghostcube_maemo, wait for pr1.2 |
| 19:37.02 | hrw | ghostcube_maemo: release on 12 November |
| 19:37.08 | FIQ | libsdl-mixeroggwav1.2-dev have unmet deps, libc6-dev and libsdl1.2-dev (version 1.2.4 or more), where can i find those? |
| 19:37.23 | MohammadAG | FIQ, PR1.2 |
| 19:37.29 | hrw | FIQ: inside of nokia |
| 19:37.42 | GAN900 | hrw, what's it using? |
| 19:37.48 | MohammadAG | infiltrates Nokia HQ |
| 19:37.51 | hrw | FIQ: if you will sell your soul and 60% of internal organs then you may get it next week |
| 19:38.00 | hrw | GAN900: DM37xx iirc |
| 19:38.08 | MohammadAG | "may" lol |
| 19:38.19 | FIQ | ok |
| 19:38.23 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: is this a secret or will Nokia announce officially the cpu-clockspeed tests implemented in maemo.org this weekend? And how will it transfer the device ser#, or does it rely on IP? |
| 19:38.52 | t-tan | korhojoa, SpeedEvil: OPP are relevant according to TI, not frequency |
| 19:39.19 | t-tan | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=596274&postcount=937 |
| 19:39.34 | pupnik | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:39.35 | pupnik | 41 |
| 19:39.41 | pupnik | normal temp? |
| 19:39.55 | GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, I believe they'll use it for targetting the cruise missiles. |
| 19:39.56 | MohammadAG | the exact opposite of normal |
| 19:40.05 | MohammadAG | pupnik, mine idles at 13 |
| 19:40.07 | MohammadAG | or 12 |
| 19:40.21 | korhojoa | mien says 17 |
| 19:40.31 | t-tan | 14 |
| 19:40.32 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: sure. Or simply for warranty purposes |
| 19:40.47 | *** join/#maemo richieeee72 (~richard@host86-156-152-171.range86-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:41.46 | spliffy_ | i get -40 |
| 19:42.01 | pupnik | the computer brain electro-god on the other side has been programming me heavily this week. but it keeps forgetting the traces it leaves. 41 degrees! |
| 19:42.11 | korhojoa | spliffy: take it out of the CO2 bath |
| 19:42.18 | spliffy | lol |
| 19:42.40 | *** join/#maemo AakashPatel (~AakashPat@97.87.141.47) |
| 19:42.40 | *** join/#maemo AakashPatel (~AakashPat@unaffiliated/aakashpatel) |
| 19:42.53 | spliffy | it's on my table |
| 19:42.55 | t-tan | spliffy: are you in Siberia? |
| 19:43.08 | *** part/#maemo richieeee72 (~richard@host86-156-152-171.range86-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:43.19 | spliffy | no, im in europe |
| 19:43.34 | spliffy | 7 degrees celsius outside.. but i'm at home |
| 19:43.36 | MohammadAG | the -40 is actually 40 |
| 19:43.43 | MohammadAG | idk why it says that sometimes |
| 19:43.56 | MohammadAG | (it could be +40, not sure) |
| 19:44.37 | dottedmag | t-tan: it's ~0 in Siberia now. |
| 19:44.50 | pupnik | they are trying to communicate to us |
| 19:45.10 | jaska | modulating the +/- signs? |
| 19:45.11 | korhojoa | is there a way to check which voltage you're at? |
| 19:45.18 | pupnik | yes |
| 19:45.22 | *** join/#maemo lardman (~vircuser@92.25.140.11) |
| 19:45.38 | MohammadAG | damn |
| 19:45.39 | MohammadAG | /dev/sda5 10531272 9960264 36044 100% / |
| 19:46.19 | korhojoa | pupnik: do you know how to do that then? if so, could you share? |
| 19:46.25 | spliffy | i exposed it to some heat, now it's at 21 |
| 19:47.07 | korhojoa | spliffy: what did you do? |
| 19:47.16 | korhojoa | take it out from a vaccuum? |
| 19:47.29 | lcuk | held it over his cig perhaps |
| 19:47.32 | spliffy | i didn't do anytho nspecial |
| 19:48.00 | spliffy | s/anytho n/anything / |
| 19:48.03 | t-tan | korhojoa: if have the ideal kernel: modprobe bq27x00_battery; cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/voltage_now |
| 19:48.52 | spliffy | oh and i don't oc |
| 19:49.00 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (~timeless@a88-115-8-36.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:49.00 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (~timeless@firefox/developer/timeless) |
| 19:49.04 | *** join/#maemo cyborg-one (99@85-238-108-25.broadband.tenet.odessa.ua) |
| 19:50.03 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: I thought it would have been fair to announce the clockfreq survey to OC fanboys. But probably the 'reduce service costs' aspect took precedence - I'd not be surprised if Nokia actually leaked/prodded the OC-kernel to massively cut number of accepted RMA |
| 19:50.24 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, I have no idea what you're talking about. ;) |
| 19:51.08 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: oops sorry, forgot we're not supposed to discuss it in public |
| 19:51.13 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 19:51.39 | t-tan | DocScrutinizer: how do you know about the cheque in my mailbox? |
| 19:51.49 | *** join/#maemo FlavioFerreiraBR (~Flavio@189.71.127.208) |
| 19:52.33 | DocScrutinizer | t-tan: I was one of the guys plotting the concept |
| 19:52.42 | t-tan | oops, rm -rf */memory/* |
| 19:53.15 | pupnik | gone daddy gone (your love is gone) |
| 19:58.35 | *** join/#maemo aloril (~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:58.46 | *** join/#maemo tg (irc@x-net.hu) |
| 19:59.16 | DocScrutinizer | clockspeed test seems to slow down access to http://talk.maemo.org as well as repository update for me |
| 19:59.29 | DocScrutinizer | but only slightly |
| 19:59.34 | *** join/#maemo ufa_ (~ufa@189.72.204.158) |
| 20:02.09 | *** join/#maemo ghostcube_maemo (~Ghost@p5B2D4387.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:04.21 | marcus_ | How do I quit OpenArena on the n900? o.o |
| 20:04.46 | DocScrutinizer | 8seconds power button hold ;-P |
| 20:04.49 | pupnik | i say symbian is lookin nice and brushed up |
| 20:04.51 | *** join/#maemo ufa__ (~ufa@187.54.96.217) |
| 20:05.05 | marcus_ | srsly?! |
| 20:05.07 | marcus_ | o.o |
| 20:05.20 | DocScrutinizer | marcus_: just kidding, no idea |
| 20:05.48 | DocScrutinizer | marcus_: I'm in a somewhat sarcastic mood, sorry |
| 20:06.49 | Treibholz | I never got Symbian to an uptime of 5 days! |
| 20:06.57 | corecode | mm |
| 20:07.02 | corecode | OC time! |
| 20:07.07 | dsster | Good day |
| 20:07.14 | lcuk | Treibholz, ? symbian is easy to hold up |
| 20:07.16 | hrw | Treibholz: I got much longer times with S60 then week |
| 20:07.32 | DocScrutinizer | marcus_: still a short powerbutton push should get you the menu with "stop current task" maybe |
| 20:07.59 | Treibholz | I had a Siemens-SX1, a Nokia e61 and an e61i, all were damn unstable. |
| 20:08.02 | hrw | DocScrutinizer: powerkey menu is never granted to appear after power key press |
| 20:08.07 | hrw | Treibholz: I have e66 |
| 20:08.18 | dsster | corecode: what are the settings you're working with? |
| 20:08.44 | DocScrutinizer | hrw: that's why I added 'maybe' |
| 20:09.13 | corecode | dsster: i'm gonna first patch up the kernel |
| 20:09.25 | corecode | dsster: and then try and understand what these different voltages mean |
| 20:09.36 | MohammadAG | marcus_, = button |
| 20:09.45 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, not in the Quake 3 engine |
| 20:10.03 | corecode | dsster: then i'll look into specifying a maximum time on the highest setting |
| 20:10.23 | corecode | dsster: because i don't want to fry my cpu on some runaway process |
| 20:10.32 | dsster | o.O @ corecode: You're going to play with volgate? Be careful bud |
| 20:10.42 | corecode | dsster: but likely i'll start maybe with 800MHz |
| 20:10.45 | corecode | volgate? |
| 20:10.55 | dsster | voltage* :p |
| 20:11.00 | corecode | of course |
| 20:11.22 | dsster | yeah 800mhz is a safe bet. I think should work on stock voltage though |
| 20:11.24 | corecode | reduce voltage for conserving energy |
| 20:12.25 | DocScrutinizer | dsster: WHAT is a 'safe bet'?? How'd you come to state such things? |
| 20:12.48 | dsster | From the forums i've read 800 mhz is easy to reach with no problems |
| 20:12.56 | MohammadAG | lols |
| 20:12.58 | dsster | corecode: what voltage are you attempting? |
| 20:13.20 | MohammadAG | dsster, the forums also say you should stay alive if you fall 100 feet |
| 20:13.26 | DocScrutinizer | dsster: take an axe. It's even easier and more reliable in result |
| 20:13.58 | dsster | If you don't like overclocking go join # #maemoPleaseDontDiscussOverclocking |
| 20:14.13 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (~david@c-67-174-39-138.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:14.14 | Treibholz | the n900 is not slow because of its CPU, it's slow because it doesn't have enough RAM. |
| 20:14.24 | corecode | oh jesus |
| 20:14.30 | corecode | what is wrong with you people |
| 20:14.47 | DocScrutinizer | dsster: if you like spreading BS as given facts, then I'll happily help you to go anywhere |
| 20:14.52 | corecode | do you drive in a car with a helmet on? |
| 20:15.02 | corecode | don't you have a life? |
| 20:15.09 | Treibholz | corecode: no, but with a seatbelt. |
| 20:16.22 | ghostcube_maemo | i read not only in forum about the 800 mhz thing, in german it magazines too so anything must be true with this. |
| 20:16.38 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 20:17.54 | *** join/#maemo Xisdibik (~xisdibik@c-67-164-41-249.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:18.21 | hrw | Treibholz: +1 |
| 20:18.58 | corecode | i'm sick of this constant FUD regarding CPU lifetime |
| 20:19.26 | corecode | each time somebody says OC, millions of people scream OH NOES TEH WORLD WILL END! |
| 20:19.27 | MohammadAG | corecode, actually, he's right, you're wrong |
| 20:19.36 | corecode | how am i wrong? |
| 20:19.47 | corecode | by having an opinion? |
| 20:19.50 | MohammadAG | no |
| 20:19.53 | corecode | that can hardly be wrong |
| 20:20.00 | MohammadAG | I didn't say that |
| 20:20.10 | hrw | I have to tell one thing: I am tired of that OC talks |
| 20:20.26 | MohammadAG | BTW I have my N900 overclocked, but I know lifetime is less than a year now (at 800) |
| 20:20.31 | hrw | basically each device now can be OC - nevermind which cpu it has |
| 20:20.35 | corecode | how do you know that? |
| 20:20.39 | DocScrutinizer | I read on a thousand sites Man never reached the moon, so it MUST be true |
| 20:20.53 | MohammadAG | corecode, it's 10 years at 500, 5 years at 550, do the maths |
| 20:20.53 | DocScrutinizer | WTF?? |
| 20:21.03 | ghostcube_maemo | dont start a moonlanding bash |
| 20:21.06 | ghostcube_maemo | :) |
| 20:21.07 | javispedro | sigh. What I am tired off is the stupid importance people give to overclocking. it's completely useless. |
| 20:21.09 | corecode | where did you get these numbers? |
| 20:21.20 | Treibholz | me too, everytime I look in here, somebody is talking about overclocking... |
| 20:21.24 | MohammadAG | corecode, Igor |
| 20:21.37 | corecode | and igor knows that how? |
| 20:21.39 | MohammadAG | well someone (a trusted person - not sure who he was) posted them here |
| 20:21.43 | hrw | tomorrow I will overclock my fridge |
| 20:21.44 | MohammadAG | corecode, he's a Nokia engineer |
| 20:21.49 | dmj726_n900 | I don't think anyone knows what the lifetime will *actually* be. |
| 20:21.53 | javispedro | hrw: it will freeze your stuff 0,5% faster!!! |
| 20:22.00 | corecode | dmj726_n900: tanks! |
| 20:22.05 | javispedro | s/,/. (damn dot comma) |
| 20:22.15 | dmj726_n900 | they can give reasonable guesses |
| 20:22.32 | hrw | javispedro: 0.5 contra 0,5 depends on regional settings. for me 0,5 is proper ;D |
| 20:22.42 | LiraNuna | how do you set a 128bit NEON register? |
| 20:22.42 | Jaffa | corecode: Igor Stoppa is one of the senior, principal, hardware engineers of the 770, N8x0 and N900 devies. |
| 20:22.44 | javispedro | hrw: me too :) |
| 20:22.52 | corecode | okay |
| 20:22.52 | LiraNuna | I can see how to set a lane, but not all lanes |
| 20:22.59 | t-tan | corecode: 800 is actually a no-go frequency. it doesn't have the appropriate divider |
| 20:23.02 | dmj726_n900 | based on what the chip is rated to last and the proportional decrease on average at a given voltage and clockspeed. |
| 20:23.08 | DocScrutinizer | ghostcube_maemo: don't claim a high number of citations of a incorrect fact makes it any more correct or honorable |
| 20:23.13 | Jaffa | corecode: i.e. he knows of what he speaks. More than some forum dude who says "well, *mine's* fine so why did Nokia choose 600MHz, it's soooo slooooow." |
| 20:23.23 | javispedro | Jaffa: I love how you put that in mwkn, "engineer extraordinaire" :) |
| 20:23.29 | corecode | Jaffa: yes, of course |
| 20:23.49 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~wazd@188.123.241.73) |
| 20:24.03 | t-tan | igors comment on OC: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=603833&postcount=66 |
| 20:24.08 | Jaffa | corecode: Sorry, it's just the overclocking thread seems to think a sample size of about a dozen, over 3 days, equates to a proper soak test across hundreds of devices. |
| 20:24.15 | Jaffa | javispedro: Seems apt ;-) |
| 20:24.29 | javispedro | heh |
| 20:24.34 | dsster | I guess us hardware enthusiasts can't enjoy overclocking becuase the engineer sad it's a bad thing to do |
| 20:24.39 | dmj726_n900 | that said, a few weeks of "mine is fine" does not equal "it will work for the desired lifetime" |
| 20:24.45 | corecode | but really, i still don't understand how the frequency (without changing the voltage) would influence the lifetime, apart from heat issues |
| 20:25.02 | corecode | Jaffa: that thread is just major pain |
| 20:25.04 | javispedro | oh, god. |
| 20:25.05 | dsster | corecode: don't even ask just follow instructions |
| 20:25.14 | javispedro | oh, god again. |
| 20:25.17 | corecode | hehe |
| 20:25.21 | dmj726_n900 | corecode it does. |
| 20:25.36 | corecode | anyways, where would i find the kernel source nokia is using, in a neat little repo? |
| 20:25.51 | dmj726_n900 | a computer engineer is telling you thins. |
| 20:25.53 | corecode | because with the debian sources i just get one huge diff |
| 20:25.56 | Treibholz | corecode: well, you could tinker a fan in your device... |
| 20:26.00 | *** join/#maemo andrei1089 (~andrei108@86.121.179.137) |
| 20:26.17 | corecode | Treibholz: i said, apart from heat issues |
| 20:26.25 | ghostcube_maemo | cooling board for N900 |
| 20:26.29 | ghostcube_maemo | :D |
| 20:26.30 | Treibholz | corecode: heat IS killing hardware. |
| 20:26.42 | corecode | Treibholz: yes, yes |
| 20:26.46 | corecode | Treibholz: apart from heat |
| 20:26.51 | SpeedEvil | Home taping is killing music! |
| 20:26.57 | dmj726_n900 | also, with things like clockspeed, it's actually good that companies are somewhat conservative. |
| 20:27.03 | corecode | and michael jackson! |
| 20:27.03 | SpeedEvil | corecode: wikipedia - see electromigration |
| 20:27.14 | Treibholz | SpeedEvil: I haven't use da tape in about 10years... |
| 20:27.35 | Treibholz | SpeedEvil: I haven't used a tape in about 10 years... |
| 20:27.46 | ghostcube_maemo | hmm tapes will live longer than all of our damn mp3 |
| 20:28.03 | ghostcube_maemo | :) |
| 20:28.04 | *** mode/#maemo [+o javispedro] by ChanServ |
| 20:28.11 | Treibholz | ghostcube_maemo: raid5 out of tapes? |
| 20:28.17 | Treibholz | interessting... |
| 20:28.17 | ghostcube_maemo | heh |
| 20:28.35 | Treibholz | that could work. |
| 20:28.58 | dsster | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXGDRrkaRgU |
| 20:29.12 | ghostcube_maemo | hugs his vinyls |
| 20:29.15 | ghostcube_maemo | :) |
| 20:29.30 | *** mode/#maemo [-o javispedro] by javispedro |
| 20:30.13 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: ah, birthday present? :) |
| 20:30.46 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: joking, thanks. |
| 20:31.16 | DocScrutinizer | just a comment on 'oh god again' |
| 20:31.32 | javispedro | :) |
| 20:31.38 | DocScrutinizer | you know I get tired of arguing |
| 20:32.42 | corecode | SpeedEvil: yea, sorry, still can't find a reference to frequency, just to heat and current density |
| 20:33.25 | DocScrutinizer | current density is a first order function of frequency, on some rails |
| 20:33.40 | corecode | aha |
| 20:33.50 | javispedro | aha, free software zealot required in tmo thread. |
| 20:34.16 | javispedro | ah no, he already came :) |
| 20:34.33 | corecode | DocScrutinizer: how so? |
| 20:34.54 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~pupnik@82.113.106.31) |
| 20:34.54 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) |
| 20:35.02 | SpeedEvil | corecode: current is approximately proportional to frequency * voltage ^2 |
| 20:35.23 | corecode | huh? |
| 20:35.26 | SpeedEvil | corecode: and the area is set by the physical area of some critical path in the chip |
| 20:35.31 | corecode | which frequency are we talking about |
| 20:35.39 | SpeedEvil | cock frequency. |
| 20:35.59 | *** join/#maemo lardman (~vircuser@78.145.60.45) |
| 20:36.03 | DocScrutinizer | ölol |
| 20:36.15 | dsster | lol |
| 20:36.33 | corecode | alright, maybe we should take this to ##electronics |
| 20:36.51 | corecode | because it is not clear to me how current is proportional to frequency |
| 20:37.25 | DocScrutinizer | no, you should take this to TI-EE and Chip Design department, which came up with the numbers |
| 20:37.54 | SpeedEvil | We are speculating as to the reason. |
| 20:38.07 | *** join/#maemo Gh0sty (~ghosty@ip-83-134-176-36.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 20:38.25 | SpeedEvil | It could vary from all chips will die at 8000 hours +-1000 hours if overclocked to 720MHz. |
| 20:38.35 | SpeedEvil | To no chips die ever, and it's a marketing thing. |
| 20:38.40 | Gh0sty | hello |
| 20:38.59 | SpeedEvil | Unless you have a very good contact at TI - you will never know. |
| 20:39.02 | DocScrutinizer | corecode: just as much for your enlightening: clock is switching parasitary capacitors in a chip. Charging a capacitor more frequently needs more current obviously |
| 20:39.04 | SpeedEvil | (until devices start failing) |
| 20:39.05 | Gh0sty | ok just got the phone since friday ... just started to test with it :P |
| 20:39.26 | Gh0sty | where can i find all the goodies? like for example extra profiles? |
| 20:39.40 | corecode | DocScrutinizer: no |
| 20:39.54 | corecode | DocScrutinizer: it needs more energy, not more current |
| 20:40.01 | corecode | DocScrutinizer: it just needs the same current more often |
| 20:40.07 | Gh0sty | and is it possible to put the 'messages' icon also in the phone screen? |
| 20:40.31 | ghostcube_maemo | Gh0sty: as an shortcut |
| 20:40.45 | SpeedEvil | corecode: you're mislead - things are not ideal. In real life, it's not quite so discrete as that. |
| 20:41.04 | DocScrutinizer | corecode: and on lines averaging the pulses due to *their* parasitary capacitance to die it will result in a higher avrg current |
| 20:41.07 | SpeedEvil | corecode: the current flows tend to blur into one another |
| 20:41.26 | Gh0sty | ghostcube_maemo: how then? |
| 20:41.32 | *** join/#maemo lbt (~david@Maemo/community/contributor/lbt) |
| 20:41.45 | ghostcube_maemo | click on screen to get desktop meu |
| 20:41.48 | ghostcube_maemo | menu |
| 20:41.56 | ghostcube_maemo | and there add shortcut |
| 20:42.01 | corecode | Gh0sty: tap background, tap gears top right, select add shortcut, select messages, select done |
| 20:42.13 | corecode | seems you can only have one shortcut tho |
| 20:42.19 | corecode | not on multiple screens |
| 20:42.28 | MohammadAG | not if you clone the .desktop file |
| 20:42.39 | korhojoa | Gh0sty: remember to overclock it to 1100 mhz though. I mean, you don't want to be stuck at 600. |
| 20:42.44 | Gh0sty | corecode: hmm i dont have the gears in the phone screen? |
| 20:42.57 | corecode | Gh0sty: tap background first |
| 20:42.57 | SpeedEvil | Gh0sty: tap the desktop background |
| 20:43.05 | noobmonk3y | waves :D |
| 20:43.07 | MohammadAG | Gh0sty, just hold an empty area on the desktop |
| 20:43.11 | MohammadAG | waves back |
| 20:43.13 | DocScrutinizer | korhojoa: warning! |
| 20:43.13 | ghostcube_maemo | hi noobmonk3y |
| 20:43.16 | korhojoa | just in case of mods: joke. |
| 20:43.19 | noobmonk3y | hey alls :D |
| 20:43.22 | noobmonk3y | hey ghostcube_maemo |
| 20:43.29 | korhojoa | and there it is |
| 20:43.52 | Gh0sty | hmm but in the phone screen i only have the recent caller list, no empty background? :/ |
| 20:44.14 | korhojoa | the free space between stuff |
| 20:44.22 | korhojoa | there's the buttons and caller list |
| 20:44.30 | MohammadAG | Gh0sty, go back to the desktop |
| 20:44.31 | korhojoa | tap the empty space imbetween for example |
| 20:44.52 | korhojoa | daym. need to charbe my keyboard. well. i guess that means it's time to go to sleep. |
| 20:45.20 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) |
| 20:45.24 | *** join/#maemo simula (~mark@c-24-16-132-121.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 20:45.25 | Gh0sty | there is no space in between, they are underneath eachother :/ |
| 20:45.28 | luke-jr | does anyone make a Mini/MicroSD card with RAM+flash? |
| 20:45.31 | Gh0sty | unless i have an old version ? :p |
| 20:45.44 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: they all have RAM |
| 20:45.48 | Gh0sty | or that 1 pixel? :p |
| 20:45.57 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: really? in any case, I meant usable as a block device |
| 20:46.03 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: it's just it's only a eraseblock or two in size, and it is not exposed to the user |
| 20:46.15 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: think /tmp :) |
| 20:46.38 | SpeedEvil | yeah - would be nice |
| 20:46.42 | SpeedEvil | however - |
| 20:47.04 | SpeedEvil | http://www.nickscipio.com/pod/2010/02/05/bunny-stocking/ |
| 20:47.06 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 20:47.08 | LiraNuna | I'm looking for the NEON intrinsic equivalent of SSE's _mm_set_ps() |
| 20:47.08 | SpeedEvil | not that |
| 20:47.12 | SpeedEvil | (not worksafe) |
| 20:47.13 | LiraNuna | anyone knows what it is? |
| 20:47.23 | luke-jr | would be nice if Nokia ported Linux to N8x0 like they advertise :p |
| 20:47.25 | ghostcube_maemo | Gh0sty: maybe read this in the manual its good described there with pic |
| 20:47.27 | luke-jr | then I could use ramzswap |
| 20:47.35 | SpeedEvil | http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=918 |
| 20:47.38 | SpeedEvil | that |
| 20:47.46 | SpeedEvil | you can see there is very little space in a microSD |
| 20:48.27 | ghostcube_maemo | anyone can suggest a theme ? |
| 20:48.56 | SpeedEvil | Pirate monkeys. |
| 20:49.59 | javispedro | Space pirate orangutans |
| 20:50.46 | ghostcube_maemo | o.O |
| 20:53.28 | Treibholz | Nazi Space Pirate Orangutans |
| 20:53.37 | Treibholz | 2.0 |
| 20:55.51 | *** join/#maemo Otacon22 (~otacon22@93-36-118-148.ip60.fastwebnet.it) |
| 20:56.11 | ghostcube_maemo | Treibholz: wär in nem de chan ein lebenslanger ban |
| 20:56.17 | ghostcube_maemo | ;) |
| 20:56.51 | Otacon22 | patience has a limit: it is a month waiting to be solved the bug 7764 |
| 20:56.52 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7764 WPA-EAP authentication fails with *any* expired certificate |
| 20:57.04 | Otacon22 | why no one wants to fix it? |
| 20:57.22 | javispedro | Otacon22: lucky you I had to wait a year and a half. |
| 20:57.30 | javispedro | Otacon22: but then I had coding experience so I coded my workaround |
| 20:57.39 | Otacon22 | i cannot connect to my university wifi network since when i've buyed my N900 |
| 20:59.00 | *** join/#maemo adam___ (~adam@hypnos.fscker.com) |
| 21:00.08 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 21:00.12 | GAN900 | The iPad really, really needs a kickstand |
| 21:00.22 | MohammadAG | It needs a kick |
| 21:00.28 | javispedro | iPad + kickstand reference reminds javispedro of ... |
| 21:00.30 | jaska | a stand to put it on so you can kick it better? |
| 21:00.30 | GAN900 | You have to be holding it constantly if you want a good angle on the screen. |
| 21:00.40 | jaska | like a tee for golf balls |
| 21:01.04 | b-man | luke-jr: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=47479 - for ramzswap ;) |
| 21:01.48 | jacekowski | Otacon22: because that's not a bug really |
| 21:01.59 | Otacon22 | it's an application bug |
| 21:02.02 | Otacon22 | so it is a bug. |
| 21:02.13 | Otacon22 | please don't say thing that are not right |
| 21:02.14 | jacekowski | Otacon22: that it refuses to authenticate using invalid certificate? |
| 21:02.15 | b-man | javispedro: lol |
| 21:02.16 | luke-jr | b-man: looks liek N900 |
| 21:02.17 | javispedro | jacekowski: that one is a bug (believe me I've been monitoring wpa ones) |
| 21:02.43 | Otacon22 | no. The WPA2 EAP TLS auth fail with any certificate. |
| 21:02.46 | javispedro | jacekowski: I do know there are quite a few that are not bugs (psk key lens, override invalid certificate requests... etc.) but that one is a bug. |
| 21:02.48 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil1 (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 21:02.48 | Otacon22 | not invalid one |
| 21:02.53 | Otacon22 | but also a valid one |
| 21:03.42 | jacekowski | mhm |
| 21:03.43 | jacekowski | oh |
| 21:03.54 | jacekowski | well, can't you just remove that certificate from keyring? |
| 21:04.14 | javispedro | not from the ui, but I guess yes. |
| 21:04.50 | *** join/#maemo andrei1089 (~andrei108@86.121.179.137) |
| 21:09.19 | *** join/#maemo kylanpaj (kylanpaj@mustatilhi.cs.tut.fi) |
| 21:11.04 | *** join/#maemo ferdna (~ferdna@cpe-24-92-116-14.elp.res.rr.com) |
| 21:12.37 | corecode | oh jesus i hope they don't build hardware like they write kernel code |
| 21:12.50 | javispedro | they build worse hardware |
| 21:13.53 | t-tan | there must be reason why most stuff is closed-source.... |
| 21:14.01 | GAN900 | er |
| 21:14.07 | GAN900 | It's not even close to most |
| 21:14.34 | javispedro | hardware, hardware! |
| 21:14.47 | GAN900 | But the reasons are usually: differentiation, trade secrets, legacy or 3rd party. |
| 21:14.58 | t-tan | stuff that matters to access important hw components |
| 21:15.07 | pupnik | yes! nno! stop it! |
| 21:15.29 | jacekowski | i'm just wondering what would happen if somebody would reverse it |
| 21:15.47 | javispedro | GAN900: legacy is reason used when the source plain sucks ;P |
| 21:16.05 | GAN900 | well, yeah |
| 21:16.06 | GAN900 | But it's still a reason |
| 21:16.50 | javispedro | *after watching mbx kmod source code* definitely yes :) |
| 21:17.06 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: what do you want to RE? it's all disclosed already, except cellmo |
| 21:17.19 | jacekowski | and power managment |
| 21:17.24 | DocScrutinizer | nah |
| 21:17.27 | javispedro | you're asking the right people :) |
| 21:18.03 | *** join/#maemo visz (vis@irkki.fi) |
| 21:18.43 | jacekowski | so where is a code for bme_RX-51? |
| 21:18.47 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: power management is TI BQ24150, BQ27200, and TWL4030 |
| 21:18.52 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: isn't cellmod also pretty much disclosed (ofono worked iirc) |
| 21:18.57 | javispedro | *cellmo |
| 21:19.08 | *** part/#maemo Otacon22 (~otacon22@93-36-118-148.ip60.fastwebnet.it) |
| 21:19.24 | *** join/#maemo Ken-Young (~Ken@pool-151-203-32-233.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 21:19.33 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: well the lowlevel access to the modem probably isn't though I never had a close look at it |
| 21:19.39 | *** join/#maemo hardaker2 (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 21:20.43 | javispedro | it does seem to talk below the at layer at least |
| 21:20.47 | DocScrutinizer | I just know it's a I2C interface and we don't know the registers inside the modem chipset |
| 21:21.05 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: yep exactly |
| 21:21.17 | DocScrutinizer | I2C direct register access |
| 21:21.32 | javispedro | has a quick look at ofono.. |
| 21:21.34 | DocScrutinizer | not much use in RE that |
| 21:22.02 | DocScrutinizer | without decent datasheets for the register adresses and functions |
| 21:22.05 | javispedro | isimodem is the backend the n900 ofono uses |
| 21:22.22 | SpeedEvil1 | camera would be nice to RE |
| 21:22.25 | SpeedEvil1 | and replace |
| 21:22.37 | DocScrutinizer | aah yes, another one |
| 21:22.38 | SpeedEvil1 | (the sw, not the hw) |
| 21:22.50 | SpeedEvil1 | Camera sucks in a fair few ways. |
| 21:23.00 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@54.200.49.122-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 21:23.21 | DocScrutinizer | though there probably cam manuf IP algo comes to stop Nokia from ever disclosing it |
| 21:23.25 | SpeedEvil1 | Won't save to vfat - will sometimes not take pictures if it can't get a GPS fix - GPS position inaccurate |
| 21:23.44 | SpeedEvil1 | does not integrate well with flashlight |
| 21:23.56 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil_ (~Speedevil@87.112.243.248.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) |
| 21:23.58 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil_ (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 21:23.59 | javispedro | won't save to vfat? :P |
| 21:24.02 | DocScrutinizer | aaah you're talking bout the UI |
| 21:24.05 | javispedro | s/ext3 ? |
| 21:24.14 | SpeedEvil1 | won't save to not vfat |
| 21:24.19 | SpeedEvil1 | rather |
| 21:24.25 | DocScrutinizer | and I thought that'S been fixed |
| 21:24.28 | javispedro | me too |
| 21:24.35 | SpeedEvil1 | In 1.1.1? |
| 21:24.43 | javispedro | iirc it had to do with case sensitiveness AND permissions |
| 21:24.44 | SpeedEvil1 | K, never tried it. |
| 21:24.46 | DocScrutinizer | erhhm yes |
| 21:24.57 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: yep |
| 21:25.12 | SpeedEvil | But yes - lowlevel too would be interesting from a number of perspsectives |
| 21:25.18 | corecode | SpeedEvil: where did you find the omap3430 datasheet? |
| 21:25.23 | SpeedEvil | ebay |
| 21:25.29 | SpeedEvil | Or google. |
| 21:25.34 | DocScrutinizer | a root daemon creating a dir, and user process trying to write to it |
| 21:25.36 | javispedro | you found the datasheet??? |
| 21:25.39 | javispedro | or the trm? |
| 21:25.41 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 21:25.50 | corecode | ebay? |
| 21:25.53 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure - ... |
| 21:26.06 | DocScrutinizer | corecode: there are half a dozen |
| 21:26.18 | javispedro | the trm/technical manual is public, the datasheet isn't. I didn't find the 3430 one. |
| 21:26.24 | corecode | ah |
| 21:26.45 | DocScrutinizer | http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/omap3530.pdf |
| 21:26.48 | corecode | i'm just interested in what the smartreflex voltage points mean |
| 21:26.51 | DocScrutinizer | for example |
| 21:26.52 | javispedro | that's 3530 trm |
| 21:27.04 | *** join/#maemo TomaszD (~tom@Maemo/community/contributor/TomaszD) |
| 21:27.06 | javispedro | er no.. sorry |
| 21:27.21 | javispedro | s/trm/datasheet |
| 21:27.56 | javispedro | 3530 trm, 3530 datasheet: public. |
| 21:28.03 | javispedro | 3430 trm: public, SWPU223A_FinalEPDF_03_17_2010.pdf |
| 21:28.08 | javispedro | 3430 datasheet: ???' |
| 21:28.19 | *** join/#maemo bergie (~bergie@solt.imedia.com.pl) |
| 21:28.20 | corecode | yea, what's up with that? |
| 21:28.33 | javispedro | probably requires nda |
| 21:28.46 | corecode | hm. |
| 21:32.46 | LiraNuna | has anyone ever used NEON intrinsics? |
| 21:33.00 | LiraNuna | I'm looking for the NEON intrinsic equivalent of SSE's _mm_set_ps() |
| 21:33.10 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (~magao@84.79.25.26) |
| 21:34.36 | javispedro | isn't that a plain load? |
| 21:35.16 | javispedro | on arm it would be implemented as a neon ldm at least. |
| 21:37.29 | LiraNuna | thing is, _mm_set_ps() allows me to set all 4 lanes in one line |
| 21:37.51 | LiraNuna | a load would make me create an aligned const variable then use the appropriate load intrinsic |
| 21:38.13 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) |
| 21:40.18 | lardman | it makes /me glad to see the way #maemo has reverted to a nice channel for technical questions :) |
| 21:40.42 | *** join/#maemo danielsilva (~dsilva@76-218-202-164.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:41.10 | spliffy | it must be a temporary glitch :P |
| 21:41.13 | LiraNuna | lardman, am I asking at the wrong place? |
| 21:41.19 | lardman | no not at all |
| 21:41.27 | *** join/#maemo lopz (~gentoo@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 21:41.33 | LiraNuna | I'm really excited to work on NEON |
| 21:41.33 | lardman | and I'm sorry that I don't know anything about NEON asm |
| 21:41.44 | LiraNuna | this is the only docs I have - http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/ARM-NEON-Intrinsics.html |
| 21:41.46 | javispedro | the issue is not about asm, but intrinsics |
| 21:42.01 | javispedro | and all I know is that they suck, but since you have a more recent compiler, dunno. |
| 21:42.07 | LiraNuna | I think what I want is vld1q_f32 but it takes a pointer |
| 21:42.29 | LiraNuna | javispedro, I use my own compiler since GCC 4.2.1 ICEs when optimizing NEON (-O2) |
| 21:42.42 | javispedro | yeah, I still remember that discussion |
| 21:43.06 | javispedro | note that the net result is that 4.2 was never assumed to support intrinsics :P |
| 21:43.52 | lardman | how much do they abstract the underlying asm? |
| 21:43.54 | LiraNuna | the headers are there |
| 21:44.03 | LiraNuna | lardman, not much, that's a good thing I think |
| 21:44.20 | LiraNuna | the intrinsics almost map 1:1 to instructions |
| 21:44.21 | javispedro | LiraNuna: since you exactly know what you want, why you don't scrub the headers for functions accepting 4 floats? |
| 21:44.29 | lardman | indeed, but then why not just write in pure asm and skip the intrinsics? |
| 21:44.30 | LiraNuna | javispedro, because it doesn't exist :( |
| 21:44.36 | javispedro | then it doesn't exist |
| 21:45.16 | javispedro | LiraNuna: you said it yourself. they mostly map 1:1 to neon opcodes, and there can't be a "4 float loading opcode" for obvious reasons |
| 21:45.37 | javispedro | so in fact you want here an intrinsic doing "something more" which is to put stuff into .rodata with proper alignment and issue an ldm instruction |
| 21:45.52 | LiraNuna | javispedro, thing is, in SSE _mm_set_ps doesn't have an opcode, and the compiler simply uses movaps from a const memory location |
| 21:46.08 | javispedro | see my point then :) |
| 21:46.59 | LiraNuna | http://pastie.org/private/jwxdfug13sy1gptsupfdua |
| 21:47.02 | LiraNuna | ugly ugly code |
| 21:47.18 | javispedro | macroize |
| 21:47.35 | LiraNuna | wants C++0x |
| 21:47.45 | LiraNuna | vld1q_f32({1, 2, 3, 4}); |
| 21:47.46 | LiraNuna | :( |
| 21:48.27 | javispedro | er.. |
| 21:48.36 | javispedro | float32x4_t vec = { 1, 2, 3, 4 } seems to work |
| 21:48.54 | LiraNuna | o_O |
| 21:49.16 | LiraNuna | well what do you know |
| 21:49.19 | LiraNuna | dies |
| 21:50.07 | LiraNuna | now for shuffles |
| 21:51.24 | *** join/#maemo FlavioFerreiraBR (~Flavio@189.71.127.208) |
| 21:51.30 | javispedro | uh, for that gcc 4.2 generates two slow vmovs |
| 21:51.58 | LiraNuna | yeah since you can't optimize it without an ICE |
| 21:54.20 | LiraNuna | -save-temps |
| 21:56.17 | LiraNuna | javispedro, looks good here |
| 21:56.32 | LiraNuna | loads a pointer to const data and |
| 21:57.48 | LiraNuna | vldr |
| 21:58.03 | javispedro | fine |
| 21:58.33 | LiraNuna | you sound unpleased |
| 21:58.44 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@217-162-187-41.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:59.44 | DocScrutinizer | is actually highly pleased, like lardman |
| 21:59.55 | javispedro | naa, just bored :) |
| 22:00.09 | LiraNuna | you're just jealous 'cause I can use GCC 4.4.3 :3 |
| 22:00.19 | LiraNuna | ;P |
| 22:00.29 | javispedro | float32x4_t vec = { 1, 2, 3, 4 };vec2 = vmulq_f32(vec, vec); |
| 22:00.32 | javispedro | this one works with 4.2 |
| 22:00.38 | LiraNuna | can you -O2 |
| 22:00.40 | javispedro | but is to be expected since the failing part is not invoked at all |
| 22:00.41 | javispedro | yes |
| 22:00.53 | LiraNuna | oh, it doesn't even use it though |
| 22:00.55 | javispedro | it then does as you said, creates an .ltorg and a vld |
| 22:00.57 | LiraNuna | try printing it |
| 22:01.10 | danielsilva | can I find the n900 default theme somewhere and use it for standard gtk apps on a desktop? |
| 22:01.11 | javispedro | two vldr actually |
| 22:01.12 | DocScrutinizer | I take it something inside OMAP knows how to handle 4dimensional vectors? |
| 22:01.20 | danielsilva | or even hildon apps on a desktop |
| 22:01.27 | javispedro | it knows how to manipulate space time |
| 22:01.31 | LiraNuna | DocScrutinizer, it's called NEON, and it's a part of the Cortex-A8 |
| 22:01.42 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: it's a SSE wannabe |
| 22:01.45 | DocScrutinizer | that's friggin awesome |
| 22:01.57 | LiraNuna | it's not really a wannabe, it seems better than SSE in theory |
| 22:01.59 | javispedro | (or actually SSE is a NEON wannabe) |
| 22:02.02 | javispedro | depends on who you ask :) |
| 22:02.04 | LiraNuna | :D |
| 22:02.16 | LiraNuna | well, SSE came before NEON, so |
| 22:02.17 | LiraNuna | :( |
| 22:02.32 | LiraNuna | <javispedro> two vldr actually |
| 22:02.34 | javispedro | at least it's easier to memorize than SSE which resembles x86 itself in evolution an design |
| 22:02.38 | LiraNuna | I think that's because the regs are 64bit |
| 22:02.47 | LiraNuna | there's no way to address 128bit directly, it seems |
| 22:03.08 | LiraNuna | javispedro, SSE is not very x86ish |
| 22:03.19 | LiraNuna | movaps - mov aligned parallel scalar |
| 22:03.23 | LiraNuna | addaps - add aligned parallel scalar |
| 22:03.25 | LiraNuna | etc etc |
| 22:03.29 | ssvb | LiraNuna: use vld1, it can load up to 256 bits of data with a single instruction |
| 22:03.35 | *** join/#maemo dandiesel (~562c6b06@gateway/web/freenode/x-fmjchtpoqjlahmhl) |
| 22:03.47 | LiraNuna | ssvb, I did |
| 22:03.52 | LiraNuna | http://pastie.org/private/jwxdfug13sy1gptsupfdua |
| 22:04.16 | dandiesel | Hey all.. have posted a thread in talk.maemo about (what I believe is) my bricked N900.. |
| 22:04.25 | LiraNuna | ssvb, code seems massier |
| 22:04.25 | ssvb | LiraNuna: ugh, these are intrinsics |
| 22:04.38 | LiraNuna | ssvb, so...? |
| 22:04.44 | LiraNuna | I like portable code |
| 22:05.07 | ssvb | LiraNuna: so it's a compiler fault, not neon |
| 22:05.16 | MohammadAG | dandiesel, N900s don't brick |
| 22:05.16 | LiraNuna | hmm, stmia+vld1.32 vs. vldr x2 |
| 22:05.47 | ssvb | LiraNuna: using aligned vld1 instructions you can load 128-bits of data per cycle, which is nice |
| 22:05.50 | dandiesel | @MohammadAG i've got a blank screen , non responsive |
| 22:05.51 | javispedro | LiraNuna: i mean that it's been extended and extended and extended... like x86. neon seemingly looks nicer. |
| 22:06.01 | LiraNuna | javispedro, ah, I see |
| 22:06.16 | simula | dandiesel, did you remove the battery and hold down the power button? |
| 22:06.19 | LiraNuna | ssvb, aligned to what? |
| 22:06.37 | ssvb | LiraNuna: aligned at 128-bit boundary (16 bytes) |
| 22:06.45 | LiraNuna | like SSE, I see |
| 22:06.49 | javispedro | btw, while googling, http://hardwarebug.org/2008/12/31/arm-neon-memory-hazards/ |
| 22:06.53 | dandiesel | have removed battery, here are the steps i've taken so far : http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=605325#post605325 |
| 22:07.17 | ssvb | javispedro: that's for mixing arm and neon |
| 22:07.35 | javispedro | yeah, I read it :) |
| 22:08.16 | dandiesel | Can't seem to get flasher to recognize the n900 when it's connected to USB in update mode |
| 22:09.01 | corecode | that trm does not seem to talk about how to configure the actual values of the voltage regulation |
| 22:09.21 | javispedro | yeah, that's part of the datasheet. |
| 22:09.37 | dandiesel | Can't seem to get flasher to recognize the n900 when it's connected to USB in update mode |
| 22:09.43 | corecode | javispedro: heh |
| 22:09.43 | javispedro | see the 3530 trm vs datasheet to get an idea |
| 22:10.12 | corecode | so people who tweak the voltage controller operate in the dark? |
| 22:10.36 | javispedro | the "how" should be in the trm, and it's also in the kernel |
| 22:10.49 | corecode | yea, but not the what |
| 22:10.50 | javispedro | the "why" isn't. |
| 22:10.58 | javispedro | or the what :) |
| 22:11.08 | corecode | 0x30 is 1.2 volt, says the kernel |
| 22:11.22 | corecode | but how much you need for what and what 0x2f would be... |
| 22:11.26 | dandiesel | Can anyone help..? Thought this would be the best place to check. |
| 22:11.34 | LiraNuna | ssvb, http://pastie.org/private/vgjydrbadleozgtxhimvnq |
| 22:12.06 | *** join/#maemo TriztFromWork (~user@62.95.110.130) |
| 22:12.28 | *** join/#maemo gomiam1 (~magao@84.79.25.26) |
| 22:12.47 | *** join/#maemo jacekowski (jacekowski@jacekowski.org) |
| 22:12.49 | lardman | dandiesel: Windows? |
| 22:13.32 | LiraNuna | ssvb, I think two vldr's are actually better if data is in .text |
| 22:13.40 | LiraNuna | ARM is RISC, isn't it |
| 22:14.03 | dandiesel | windows 7 64 bit |
| 22:14.21 | lardman | dandiesel: I've never got the Windows flasher to work |
| 22:14.33 | dandiesel | Have tried running flasher in 32bit xp compatibility mode, in administrator mode etc.. 'Suitable USB device not found'. |
| 22:14.36 | dandiesel | Ah interesting |
| 22:14.40 | lardman | dandiesel: 32bit XP, and I know what I'm doing |
| 22:14.44 | *** join/#maemo andrei1089 (~andrei108@86.121.179.137) |
| 22:15.00 | lardman | dandiesel: I'd suggest booting a Linux LiveCD and using the Linux flasher, works everytime |
| 22:15.04 | LiraNuna | "I know what I'm doing" lines always scare me |
| 22:15.10 | lardman | lol |
| 22:15.25 | LiraNuna | especially since I say them too much myself |
| 22:15.26 | lardman | well, I have reasonable experience of debugging Windows drivers then |
| 22:15.38 | dandiesel | yeah I was looking at that option, guess I don't have a choice :) |
| 22:15.47 | *** join/#maemo Mek (~marijn@93.157.1.37) |
| 22:15.50 | LiraNuna | dandiesel, Linux is free, etc etc |
| 22:16.03 | dandiesel | i know :) |
| 22:16.04 | LiraNuna | a 64bit flasher would be nice, though :( |
| 22:16.13 | MohammadAG | it works on linux |
| 22:16.27 | MohammadAG | the 32 bit flasher works on a 64 bit system |
| 22:16.28 | lardman | my thought was that the device isn't seen in its flashing state for long enough for the driver to be installed, eventually it gets bored and starts to boot and appears as mass storage |
| 22:16.29 | jacekowski | i'm not going to mention other things that would be nice as wel |
| 22:16.31 | jacekowski | l |
| 22:16.33 | MohammadAG | (and a 64 bit OS) |
| 22:16.37 | LiraNuna | MohammadAG, yes... I know that |
| 22:16.44 | LiraNuna | but a native one is always better(TM) |
| 22:16.50 | MohammadAG | well |
| 22:16.54 | *** join/#maemo FSCV (~SCV@189.141.5.25) |
| 22:17.01 | MohammadAG | changing the control file should be possible |
| 22:17.02 | dandiesel | yes lardman , Nokia USB Parent flasher drivers won't install as it seems the 'device is unplugged' before it manages to install |
| 22:17.20 | lardman | dandiesel: you might be able to manually force the installation of the driver without the device attached, but as I dual boot I couldn't be bothered and just use Linux |
| 22:17.27 | MohammadAG | dandiesel, hold u before inserting the cable |
| 22:18.01 | MohammadAG | Nokia should've gone the iPhone way of update mode (not flaming/trolling w/e) |
| 22:18.05 | dandiesel | i was wondering about that lardman , not sure how to go about it. thanks mohammad have been doing that all day unfortunately it's not recognising the device (earlier my printers and devices DID show n900 connected in update mode however) |
| 22:18.16 | MohammadAG | the iPhone doesn't exit DFU mode, even when unplugged |
| 22:18.42 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 22:18.46 | *** join/#maemo juke_ (~juke@2a01:e35:2f58:380:21c:23ff:fea0:6202) |
| 22:18.47 | MohammadAG | dandiesel, |
| 22:18.51 | MohammadAG | you can get DSL |
| 22:18.54 | lardman | dandiesel: I'm not overly sure how I'd do it for Windows either - need to identify the ID of the "flashing ready device", then see which driver needs to be installed, etc., etc |
| 22:19.00 | MohammadAG | (Damn Small Linux) |
| 22:19.02 | MohammadAG | and install flasher |
| 22:19.28 | lardman | dandiesel: yep, I'd go with that tbh, boot off a flash drive or CD |
| 22:19.34 | dandiesel | looks like it's my last resort i think. it's a pain not being able to actually see whats on screen on the device |
| 22:19.41 | MohammadAG | DSL is 30MBs |
| 22:19.45 | MohammadAG | Ubuntu is 700MBs |
| 22:19.52 | MohammadAG | so pick the one you want :) |
| 22:19.57 | lardman | though if someone does have the time to work out how to sort the Windows drivers that would be good - I wonder what the Nokians think....? |
| 22:20.21 | MohammadAG | lardman, "they can use a 32 bit OS, screw them" |
| 22:20.22 | MohammadAG | :P |
| 22:20.34 | LiraNuna | LOL |
| 22:20.50 | lcuk | someone should work out how to do n900 -> n900 flashing too :D |
| 22:20.50 | javispedro | corecode: 0x30 is 1.2 volt says who? |
| 22:20.51 | *** join/#maemo bleeter_ (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 22:20.56 | corecode | kernel comment |
| 22:21.05 | lardman | MohammadAG: doesn't work on 32bit WinXP either |
| 22:21.26 | MohammadAG | lcuk, agreed, I'm surprised there aren't videos from NokiaConversations |
| 22:21.29 | MohammadAG | (on youtube) |
| 22:21.37 | MohammadAG | lardman, works for me on 32 bit XP PC |
| 22:21.37 | lardman | lcuk: I guess it's still possible to flash directly on the device |
| 22:21.45 | lardman | MohammadAG: ah, not for me though |
| 22:21.50 | MohammadAG | hmm |
| 22:21.53 | MohammadAG | not sure why |
| 22:21.54 | lcuk | lardman, that would be an idea |
| 22:22.03 | MohammadAG | a hard one to implement :P |
| 22:22.08 | lcuk | tho some flash images would wipe out the data they are flashing |
| 22:22.11 | lardman | no, the n8x0 could do that |
| 22:22.16 | MohammadAG | lcuk, |
| 22:22.17 | MohammadAG | actually |
| 22:22.27 | lcuk | unless such a process ONLY activated with stuff on the actual removable mmc |
| 22:22.35 | MohammadAG | they can sacrifice (weird choice of words) 300MBs from the eMMC |
| 22:22.41 | MohammadAG | and put a recovery partition |
| 22:22.43 | ssvb | LiraNuna: vldr's are slower, but they are more flexible and support more addressing modes, so the compiler prefers them |
| 22:22.58 | lcuk | yes MohammadAG but that recovery partition could need redoing |
| 22:23.00 | LiraNuna | ssvb, 'slower' how? isn't it RISC? |
| 22:23.07 | MohammadAG | lcuk, like? |
| 22:23.11 | lardman | recovery partitions are overrated |
| 22:23.14 | *** join/#maemo andrei1089 (~andrei108@86.121.179.137) |
| 22:23.18 | *** join/#maemo celesteh (~celesteh@sblug/member/celesteh) |
| 22:23.30 | ssvb | LiraNuna: vldr's only have 64-bit per cycle throughput |
| 22:23.34 | MohammadAG | lcuk, the image would have to be updated, they can add that function in flasher |
| 22:24.11 | lcuk | i quite like the idea of having multiple variation OSes on external mmcs |
| 22:24.13 | MohammadAG | they can also add the Wifi drivers and cellular drivers, as well as wget |
| 22:24.21 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: enable usb-hostmode, plug in target device, start flasher. Should be simple ;-) |
| 22:24.22 | lcuk | can flip through them like tiny amiga floppy disks :D |
| 22:24.23 | *** join/#maemo type_t (~markwire@c-98-228-74-254.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 22:24.23 | MohammadAG | to fetch the image |
| 22:24.35 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, ok - try it |
| 22:24.44 | LiraNuna | ssvb, I see it, but I also see GCC setting up the stack to use vld1.32 |
| 22:24.49 | MohammadAG | well flasher is on the N900 |
| 22:24.56 | MohammadAG | so if host mode is possible |
| 22:25.01 | MohammadAG | one N900 can flash the other |
| 22:25.02 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I'll do in a few days :-D |
| 22:25.08 | lcuk | MohammadAG, compromisewhich doesnt need it |
| 22:25.09 | MohammadAG | (what if the two are bricked :P) |
| 22:25.14 | javispedro | corecode: that value has no meaning to nobody other than smartreflex |
| 22:25.14 | *** join/#maemo tealbird (~Freakazoi@70-36-184-147.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 22:25.15 | LiraNuna | ssvb, they may be slower in batch loading, however I try to load one |
| 22:25.20 | lcuk | :) great DocScrutinizer |
| 22:25.26 | tealbird | Anyone in SF south bay looking to carpool for ELC? |
| 22:25.38 | LiraNuna | ELC? |
| 22:25.40 | GeneralAntilles | is going to forgo any quotes on the overclocking story. . . . |
| 22:25.44 | tealbird | embedded linux conference |
| 22:26.02 | LiraNuna | I'd love to, but I have to work :| |
| 22:26.16 | tealbird | Too bad |
| 22:26.17 | DocScrutinizer | kicks GeneralAntilles for using the O-word :-P |
| 22:26.21 | LiraNuna | damn weekday confrences |
| 22:26.34 | GeneralAntilles | tealbird, now or in the future? |
| 22:26.39 | LiraNuna | it's tomorrow |
| 22:27.00 | GeneralAntilles | knows Myrtti may have been looking for transportation. |
| 22:27.09 | tealbird | I'm taking time off, didn't even try to get work time cuz I know they wouldn't pay |
| 22:27.11 | ssvb | LiraNuna: single load may be fine, but really optimized neon code needs to schedule load/store and alu instructions so that dual issue is used, also all the latencies need to be taken into accound with loops unrolled and pipelined |
| 22:27.27 | ssvb | *account |
| 22:27.29 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: and SmartReflex(R) is IP of TI |
| 22:27.35 | LiraNuna | NEON is more complex than SSE, isn't it |
| 22:27.45 | ssvb | no, it's easier |
| 22:28.00 | ssvb | because it is more consistent and orthogonal |
| 22:28.01 | LiraNuna | maybe it's just my unfamiliarity with it |
| 22:28.12 | javispedro | and also because since there's one chip to target only you can do optimize for stuff like what ssvb mentioned :) |
| 22:28.27 | javispedro | * argh, redundant word syndrome syndrome. |
| 22:28.44 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: also to my understanding SmartReflex(R) also comprises of a few kernel patches to manage the hw |
| 22:28.50 | lardman | heads for bed |
| 22:28.52 | lardman | night all |
| 22:28.55 | *** join/#maemo _bella_ (~mrc@200-180-9-241.fnsce703.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 22:28.56 | LiraNuna | g'night lardman |
| 22:28.56 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I am looking at it. |
| 22:29.07 | _bella_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:29.24 | javispedro | also discovered that Nokia disabled the kernel parameter for o/c that had been in the kernel since the very first days and nobody noticed but I mentioned... |
| 22:29.28 | ssvb | LiraNuna: it's easy to convert code from SSE to NEON, but not the other way around |
| 22:30.25 | LiraNuna | go-go-gadget Ctrl+H ! |
| 22:30.41 | *** join/#maemo type_t (~markwire@c-98-228-74-254.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 22:30.59 | LiraNuna | ssvb, is there shuffling in NEON? |
| 22:31.16 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer/javispedro/SpeedEvil/anybody else, want to take a look at the (incomplete) draft? http://pastebin.com/Fk691bUz |
| 22:31.52 | *** join/#maemo fqhuy (~huy@133.64.169.222) |
| 22:32.04 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: damn, was halfway under the shower |
| 22:32.05 | ssvb | LiraNuna: yes, vtbl |
| 22:32.16 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles: where do you plan to put that? in a giant bill board somewhere? :) |
| 22:32.24 | ssvb | LiraNuna: and vzip/vuzp which are faster |
| 22:32.50 | LiraNuna | vtbl seems to be 8bit lanes only |
| 22:33.20 | LiraNuna | zipping only goes in pairs |
| 22:33.30 | ssvb | LiraNuna: don't know about intrisincs, but real vtbl is very powerful |
| 22:33.59 | ssvb | LiraNuna: it has 8-bit granularity, and MMX/SSE can handle only 16-bit data |
| 22:34.04 | LiraNuna | ssvb, yeah, I can see you can shuffle butes |
| 22:34.07 | LiraNuna | bytes* |
| 22:34.40 | t-tan | SpeedEvil: I calculated a complete freq*voltage^2 table |
| 22:34.42 | t-tan | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=606065&postcount=2384 |
| 22:34.49 | ssvb | LiraNuna: you can shuffle anything if you can shuffle bytes |
| 22:35.11 | *** join/#maemo FSCV1 (~SCV@189.141.5.25) |
| 22:35.20 | LiraNuna | ssvb, un/zip only goes for pairs, right |
| 22:35.20 | LiraNuna | ? |
| 22:35.27 | LiraNuna | ugh my keyboard is dying |
| 22:35.47 | t-tan | javispedro: which kernel parameter? |
| 22:35.51 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: added edit |
| 22:36.02 | ssvb | LiraNuna: zvip/vuzp can interleave/deinterleave data, don't know what you mean |
| 22:36.03 | javispedro | t-tan: mpurate and the rest |
| 22:37.08 | ssvb | LiraNuna: it's just the most common operation, for arbitrary shuffles vtbl is used |
| 22:37.25 | LiraNuna | can vtbl duplicate? |
| 22:37.53 | LiraNuna | i.e if I give it a mask of 0's, will it duplicate first lane to all? |
| 22:37.54 | ssvb | LiraNuna: sure it can :) but you are better to use vdup, it is also faster |
| 22:38.01 | LiraNuna | (I know thre's vdup) |
| 22:38.02 | LiraNuna | lol |
| 22:38.22 | LiraNuna | ssvb, when you say 'faster', do you mean setup time or clocks? |
| 22:38.37 | ssvb | LiraNuna: both |
| 22:38.41 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: add a passage more clearly pointing to the warranty loss |
| 22:38.52 | LiraNuna | ssvb, so NEON isn't RISC? |
| 22:39.05 | ssvb | LiraNuna: for vdup/vzip/vuzp you do not need to construct index register |
| 22:39.14 | LiraNuna | right |
| 22:39.34 | ssvb | LiraNuna: pure RISK does not exist anymore :) |
| 22:39.47 | LiraNuna | :( |
| 22:40.23 | ssvb | *RISC |
| 22:41.07 | LiraNuna | hmm |
| 22:41.11 | ssvb | LiraNuna: do you have ARM Architecture Reference Manual? |
| 22:41.18 | LiraNuna | ssvb, somewhere here, yeah |
| 22:41.29 | LiraNuna | I only skimmed through it |
| 22:41.47 | ssvb | LiraNuna: this and Cortex-A8 TRM provide all the needed information |
| 22:42.22 | pupnik | epoc felt snappy. all QT and Python and Java devs need to have an old psion for reference |
| 22:42.50 | javispedro | or a palmos handheld |
| 22:42.54 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: damn, new URL -> http://pastebin.com/u8kkd0Si |
| 22:43.24 | javispedro | pupnik: never impressed by how launching garnetvm applications that rival in feature sets with those of maemo are still an order of magnitude faster than native maemo ones? :) |
| 22:43.32 | javispedro | think calendar, etc. |
| 22:44.03 | dandiesel | can i create a livecd using slax? |
| 22:44.11 | javispedro | (of course, I'd never want to code nothing serious for PalmOS again) |
| 22:44.12 | ssvb | LiraNuna: also check this one, it's a good cortex-a8 microarchitecture overview: http://www.arm.com/miscPDFs/24588.pdf |
| 22:44.14 | MohammadAG | dandiesel, use DSL, it's smaller |
| 22:44.14 | dandiesel | dont want to download ubuntu |
| 22:44.28 | dandiesel | thanks |
| 22:44.53 | MohammadAG | dandiesel, http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ |
| 22:45.16 | corecode | javispedro: yes, but still people are tweaking the values to undervolt/overvolt the mpu |
| 22:45.33 | pupnik | javispedro: todays standard seems to be "well it feels faster than the web" |
| 22:45.39 | *** join/#maemo romulo (~romulo@189.71.74.239) |
| 22:45.49 | javispedro | corecode: but those do nothing at all from what I see in the code unless smartreflex is enabled |
| 22:46.05 | javispedro | (talking about vsel here) |
| 22:48.21 | corecode | javispedro: yes, right |
| 22:48.30 | corecode | well, people seem to be using sr |
| 22:48.42 | javispedro | (no wonder the crashes) |
| 22:48.50 | corecode | why? |
| 22:49.12 | javispedro | changing the vsel without the associated opp voltage |
| 22:49.35 | corecode | what do you mean, without changing |
| 22:50.36 | javispedro | that I don't know what smartreflex uses vsel for, but if you're changing it _without_ changing the actual operating voltage, dunno what happens |
| 22:50.53 | javispedro | maybe smartreflex active does something around it, maybe it's just wrong and nobody knows |
| 22:50.59 | corecode | shouldn't sr change the voltage? |
| 22:51.36 | javispedro | yes, but the above applies. |
| 22:52.26 | corecode | from reading the code/trm i was under the impression that sr was responsible for ramping the voltage |
| 22:52.56 | corecode | doesn't seem that any other part is being configured with changing voltage |
| 22:53.04 | corecode | on opp switch |
| 22:53.15 | DocScrutinizer | corecode: [2010-04-12 00:28:43] <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: also to my understanding SmartReflex(R) also comprises of a few kernel patches to manage the hw |
| 22:53.24 | *** join/#maemo andrei1089 (~andrei108@86.121.179.137) |
| 22:53.49 | corecode | on top of the nokia kernel? |
| 22:54.19 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: they're public, I'm looking at them. |
| 22:54.47 | DocScrutinizer | yes, the code is public, but the knowledge is IP of TI |
| 22:54.51 | javispedro | :) |
| 22:57.21 | jacekowski | have anybody tried how low you can go with frequency? |
| 22:59.22 | *** join/#maemo amit_dusual (vattam@190.120.226.89) |
| 23:00.45 | DocScrutinizer | 125 has been reported instable |
| 23:00.58 | *** join/#maemo type_t (~markwire@c-98-228-74-254.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 23:01.15 | jacekowski | what sort of instable? |
| 23:01.21 | DocScrutinizer | dunno |
| 23:02.18 | jacekowski | i'll have to play around with it and see how low it can go and how does it improve battery life |
| 23:03.33 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: keep in mind the general strategy is run-to-idle where CPU is at zero Hz most of the time |
| 23:03.36 | SpeedEvil_ | measuring while active at min cpu would be good |
| 23:03.45 | ShadowJK | Keep in mind that cpu is OFF in idle, so 125 only helps if phone is running something that constantly requires a small amount of cpu |
| 23:03.57 | SpeedEvil_ | there are a few usecases for this |
| 23:04.01 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: :-P |
| 23:04.08 | DocScrutinizer | faster |
| 23:04.11 | SpeedEvil_ | mp3, |
| 23:04.16 | SpeedEvil_ | umm |
| 23:04.27 | SpeedEvil_ | fmradio |
| 23:04.58 | SpeedEvil_ | I wonder also how much can be pwered down with static screen |
| 23:05.04 | ShadowJK | blames gprs lag ;-) |
| 23:05.52 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: use HSCSD ;-P |
| 23:05.56 | t-tan | jacekowski: 125 turned out to be worse for battery life than 250 |
| 23:06.16 | SpeedEvil_ | t-tan: measured how? |
| 23:06.16 | ShadowJK | n900 doesn't support it |
| 23:06.17 | jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: zero hz? |
| 23:06.22 | javispedro | SpeedEvil_: the lcd controller has a (afaik unused) slow refresh mode |
| 23:06.28 | SpeedEvil_ | hmm |
| 23:07.01 | javispedro | dunno if it does anything good :P |
| 23:07.17 | SpeedEvil_ | javispedro: I got ~8% extra battery life on one laptop going from 24-4 bit mode |
| 23:07.46 | javispedro | interesting, cause I would think quite a lot of time the n900 screen is on it's not doing anything at all |
| 23:07.59 | javispedro | (think 30 seconds countdown to poweroff, just reading text, ...) |
| 23:08.27 | SpeedEvil_ | javispedro: screen is often quite readable with no backlight. |
| 23:08.40 | javispedro | direct sunlight :) |
| 23:08.49 | t-tan | SpeedEvil_: while idling. device went much more often to max.freq than with 250 |
| 23:08.54 | SpeedEvil_ | but at low backlight settings, backlight uses a small fractiom |
| 23:09.14 | *** join/#maemo Cmvo1 (~cmvo@tmo-105-101.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 23:09.16 | SpeedEvil_ | t-tan: that may be a matter of fixing stuff. |
| 23:09.42 | t-tan | SpeedEvil_: yes, write a smarter governor |
| 23:09.49 | SpeedEvil_ | maybe even just tweaking tweakables in the governor |
| 23:09.58 | SpeedEvil_ | not writing anything |
| 23:10.01 | DocScrutinizer | mentions on OM FreeRunner a *dark* LCD display uses some 30mA power, probably for the 16 datalines pulled low most of the pixels transferred from SoC to LCD |
| 23:10.23 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 23:10.44 | SpeedEvil_ | DocScrutinizer: I see very little difference if any between black and white screen |
| 23:10.53 | SpeedEvil_ | on noop |
| 23:11.12 | SpeedEvil_ | n900 |
| 23:11.54 | DocScrutinizer | hmm seems the N900 LCD has 3 LVD lines, which are neutral to actual data transferred |
| 23:12.06 | t-tan | people have played with the params..to no avail |
| 23:12.33 | SpeedEvil_ | 3, not 4 ? |
| 23:12.35 | SpeedEvil_ | oh |
| 23:12.43 | javispedro | ponders if the core voltage is changed in omap linux when smartreflex driver is removed |
| 23:12.51 | SpeedEvil_ | what's the n900 screen depth |
| 23:13.01 | javispedro | SpeedEvil: interesting question. unknown. |
| 23:13.37 | t-tan | SpeedEvil_: color or physical? |
| 23:13.44 | SpeedEvil_ | bits |
| 23:14.04 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, unknown |
| 23:14.16 | javispedro | actual panel is acx565akm iirc. no datasheet. |
| 23:14.28 | t-tan | i guess 6bit/channel as usual for TN displays |
| 23:14.32 | DocScrutinizer | though there seem idications it's 5/6/5 |
| 23:14.47 | LiraNuna | ssvb, thanks for that link |
| 23:15.35 | *** join/#maemo jaek (~jaek@c-71-202-163-230.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:16.01 | javispedro | hm. |
| 23:16.03 | jaek | does the headphone jack on the n900 work as line-in also? |
| 23:16.06 | ssvb | LiraNuna: you are welcome, feel free to bug me if you have any neon related questions :) |
| 23:16.19 | LiraNuna | ssvb, you'll regret saying that ;P |
| 23:16.26 | t-tan | the iPad might have true 24bit color as it is a IPS panel |
| 23:16.42 | LiraNuna | ipad more like hype-pad |
| 23:16.44 | SpeedEvil | jaek: no |
| 23:17.13 | jaek | cant use the tuner/recorder with an electric (silent) guitar T_T |
| 23:17.45 | ssvb | LiraNuna: btw, direct access to L2 cache from NEON unit is broken and disabled in current OMAP3 chips, so it always goes through L1 now |
| 23:17.45 | GAN900 | t-tan, viewing angle sucks. |
| 23:17.45 | pupnik | fm transmitter on guitar |
| 23:18.02 | LiraNuna | ssvb, crap. |
| 23:18.08 | *** join/#maemo FSCV (~SCV@189.141.5.25) |
| 23:19.06 | jaek | doesnt the hw have a line in on the jack? the headphones that come with the n900 have a mic |
| 23:19.26 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: what's going to happen with your OC statement? |
| 23:19.30 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, thanks! |
| 23:19.38 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro/DocScrutinizer, mwkn.net |
| 23:19.47 | javispedro | ah. |
| 23:19.51 | javispedro | there's already a overclocking item |
| 23:20.02 | GeneralAntilles | From last week? |
| 23:20.02 | javispedro | the one where he talks about the "engineer extraordinaire" |
| 23:20.04 | javispedro | yep |
| 23:20.05 | LiraNuna | what's with all the overclocking talk today |
| 23:20.31 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, that there is. |
| 23:20.39 | GeneralAntilles | We were shooting for /. dupedom |
| 23:20.40 | GeneralAntilles | Too bad. |
| 23:21.01 | javispedro | I guess that means instant success! |
| 23:21.05 | GeneralAntilles | Well, I guess I'll just bind that to an autoreply if anybody mentions overclocking in here. ;) |
| 23:21.52 | javispedro | hm... |
| 23:22.09 | *** join/#maemo javis900 (~Javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 23:22.26 | javispedro | no, it's not me being an idiot: I don't have my cloak! |
| 23:22.29 | javispedro | ;P |
| 23:23.43 | jaek | i presume it must be possible to hack a cable to act like a headset? |
| 23:23.56 | javispedro | wouldn't you break something if you connect a speaker out into a mic in? |
| 23:23.56 | SpeedEvil | jaek: yes, you can do that |
| 23:24.06 | SpeedEvil | jaek: IIRC the input ADC is very low quality though |
| 23:24.15 | SpeedEvil | jaek: more voice than hifi, and mono only |
| 23:24.55 | jaek | man that sucks, it would have been nice to use the n900 as an effects box |
| 23:25.54 | jaek | guitar -> n900 -> a2dp out |
| 23:26.16 | *** join/#maemo Funnyface (~user734@76.89-11-145.nextgentel.com) |
| 23:26.27 | SpeedEvil | jaek: there are bluetooth audio in devices |
| 23:26.56 | jaek | then you cant stream the output to another a2dp device |
| 23:27.16 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: I vote or that |
| 23:27.20 | jaek | due to bandwidth restrictions |
| 23:27.25 | jaek | on a2dp |
| 23:27.34 | SpeedEvil_ | why not? |
| 23:27.49 | SpeedEvil_ | ah |
| 23:28.02 | SpeedEvil_ | also latency may be bad. |
| 23:28.04 | jaek | you cant even use a bluetooth mouse + a2dp at the same time let alone two a2dp streams |
| 23:28.06 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: [2010-04-11 18:21:59] * DocScrutinizer sets up autokickban on regex '.* safe .* OC .*' and '.* OC .* safe .*' |
| 23:28.34 | SpeedEvil_ | you could use it as a drumkit. |
| 23:28.52 | SpeedEvil_ | with the accel picking up the sticks. |
| 23:29.04 | jaek | there is no usb host mode, right? |
| 23:29.15 | jaek | if there was i could just plugin a usb audio device |
| 23:29.22 | SpeedEvil_ | Is it safe to watch the OC at work? |
| 23:29.32 | SpeedEvil_ | not yet. |
| 23:29.45 | LiraNuna | ssvb, what is vbsl? (intrinsics call it "Bit Selection") |
| 23:29.48 | SpeedEvil_ | usb host is a maybe |
| 23:30.02 | SpeedEvil_ | nobody has gotten it working. |
| 23:30.13 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, seriously? lol |
| 23:30.17 | MohammadAG | OC |
| 23:30.25 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: 0v3rcl0ck1n6 15 54f3 4nd rul35 y0u l00z3r5 1'm 3v1l h4ck3r |
| 23:30.29 | MohammadAG | sighs with relief |
| 23:30.29 | jaek | if the n900 did have a host mode the device would instantly become 100x more useful (for hackers) |
| 23:30.51 | jaek | didnt all of the prior devices have host mode? |
| 23:30.51 | Gh0sty | in some description online i read it should be possible |
| 23:30.56 | Gh0sty | but you need a special cable |
| 23:31.06 | Gh0sty | perhaps the firmware does not support it yet? |
| 23:31.13 | ssvb | LiraNuna: it can be used for making code branchless |
| 23:31.20 | DocScrutinizer | jaek: we're working on that |
| 23:31.23 | MohammadAG | jaek, yes they did, but they didn't use the USB port for charging |
| 23:31.32 | LiraNuna | ssvb, is it like cmpps in SSE? |
| 23:31.46 | jacekowski | symbian phones are arm based as well? |
| 23:32.01 | DocScrutinizer | and no, you don't even need a special cable probably |
| 23:32.20 | Gh0sty | oh rly :p |
| 23:32.23 | Gh0sty | thats nice :) |
| 23:32.33 | Gh0sty | but there are a lot of features missing in the phone :( |
| 23:32.45 | SpeedEvil_ | yup. |
| 23:32.45 | ssvb | LiraNuna: well, there are comparison instructions which write either all zeros or all ones to the destination register depending on the result, these can be used as bit masks for selection |
| 23:32.49 | Gh0sty | more profiles, switch profiles based on schedules and cell locations |
| 23:33.15 | SpeedEvil_ | Gh0sty: for some, it's fine as is. |
| 23:33.17 | LiraNuna | ssvb, so I can AND for selection? |
| 23:33.25 | Gh0sty | SpeedEvil_: well if i compare |
| 23:33.38 | ssvb | LiraNuna: branches based on NEON values are *very* expensive, this is a bad thing in cortex-a8 |
| 23:33.45 | LiraNuna | ssvb, in SSE, comparison returns a mask in form of 0000 and FFFF |
| 23:33.46 | Gh0sty | this device cost me 550 eur and does not have some features my e65 has |
| 23:33.59 | Gh0sty | which cost around 150 at the time |
| 23:34.06 | SpeedEvil_ | Gh0sty: for example, I've recieved one call, made 20 texts over the time I've had it. |
| 23:34.08 | ssvb | LiraNuna: yes, you can, but bit selection is a bit more flexible |
| 23:34.23 | LiraNuna | ssvb, care to give me an example? (can be impractical) |
| 23:34.30 | Gh0sty | i made one call and zero texts |
| 23:34.31 | *** join/#maemo jorma (~kario@tuubi.mermit.fi) |
| 23:34.31 | *** join/#maemo FSCV (~SCV@189.141.5.25) |
| 23:34.35 | wolf^ | yes, and it doesn't have functionality of a 0.50$ pen |
| 23:34.38 | Gh0sty | but then again only have it like 3 days :p |
| 23:34.49 | SpeedEvil_ | Gh0sty: 4 months? |
| 23:34.58 | Gh0sty | lol ok |
| 23:35.04 | Gh0sty | then you did not need a phone |
| 23:35.13 | Gh0sty | but a internet tablet :p |
| 23:35.24 | DocScrutinizer | wolf^: ;-D ++ |
| 23:35.35 | SpeedEvil_ | well - I did need an emergencies phone too. |
| 23:35.48 | SpeedEvil_ | but, yes. |
| 23:36.16 | Gh0sty | where can we put feature requests? |
| 23:36.30 | SpeedEvil_ | brainstorm |
| 23:36.49 | SpeedEvil_ | brainstorm.maemo.org ? |
| 23:36.57 | Gh0sty | k |
| 23:38.13 | ssvb | LiraNuna: well, for example for implementing getting the maximum value for each element between two vectors (even though this operation has its own instruction), that would be one comparioson and selection |
| 23:39.09 | LiraNuna | ssvb, how is it different than vceq and friends? |
| 23:39.37 | *** join/#maemo andrei1089 (~andrei108@86.121.179.137) |
| 23:40.07 | ssvb | LiraNuna: vceq is a comparison instruction which constructs mask |
| 23:40.28 | ShadowJK | heh, playing mp3 and xchat, cpu never drops below 500MHz... hooray gtk and mafw/gstreamer |
| 23:40.31 | LiraNuna | ssvb, how is the mask generated for vbsl? |
| 23:40.45 | LiraNuna | or used |
| 23:41.25 | ssvb | LiraNuna: with all the same vceq instruction for example |
| 23:41.36 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: odd |
| 23:42.52 | SplasPood | Hrm, if I have a widget that fails to show up when selected from the add widget menu, where would I go to debug that (logs..?) |
| 23:43.00 | jacekowski | btw. why are they modyfing kernels to overclock it |
| 23:43.34 | jacekowski | as it is possible to talk to hardware directly |
| 23:43.42 | jacekowski | or even modify kernel on the fly |
| 23:43.44 | ssvb | LiraNuna: don't let the bits confuse you, it is perfectly fine also for 8, 16, 32 bit data |
| 23:44.04 | LiraNuna | ssvb, it's not confusing, it's something SSE does not have |
| 23:44.10 | LiraNuna | I just seek to understand it |
| 23:44.25 | LiraNuna | I'm trying to port my SSE math library to NEON |
| 23:45.28 | pupnik | hmm |
| 23:45.51 | ssvb | LiraNuna: I guess it was just simple to implement this instruction to operate on bit level, and it is a bit more flexible than inventing something that would be operating per element |
| 23:46.15 | SpeedEvil | SplasPood: check other desktops - also - it can appear under stuff |
| 23:46.16 | ssvb | LiraNuna: even if nobody would actually use real selection at bit granularity |
| 23:46.21 | *** join/#maemo ml-mobile (~wat@32.174.175.162) |
| 23:46.29 | LiraNuna | ssvb, it's like AND then? |
| 23:46.40 | LiraNuna | bit selection usually means AND :P |
| 23:47.03 | ssvb | LiraNuna: yes, except in some cases it replaces AND/OR pair |
| 23:47.23 | ssvb | so it may save some instructions |
| 23:47.25 | LiraNuna | ah, I see |
| 23:47.36 | LiraNuna | I think I understand what it does |
| 23:47.38 | LiraNuna | thank you |
| 23:47.57 | SplasPood | SpeedEvil: I'll take another look... beyond that tho.. any way to see a log of stuff starting, etc? |
| 23:48.25 | LiraNuna | ssvb, I love the multiply-add/sub instructions |
| 23:48.25 | ssvb | LiraNuna: and NEON has a "shift with insert" instruction, it can also help to eliminate some AND/OR stuff |
| 23:48.45 | SpeedEvil | SplasPood: unsure |
| 23:49.12 | ssvb | LiraNuna: vector long multiplication are quite nice |
| 23:49.22 | LiraNuna | NEON looks very fun |
| 23:49.30 | LiraNuna | too bad it's annoyingly undocumented :( |
| 23:49.52 | ssvb | LiraNuna: it's well documented in ARM ARM |
| 23:50.18 | LiraNuna | ssvb, I want portable code, and I'm already familiar with the way GCC spews intrinsics |
| 23:50.23 | LiraNuna | so I prefer no inline asm |
| 23:50.32 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: why does xchat + mp3 use lots more than either? |
| 23:50.58 | ssvb | LiraNuna: intrinsics are just confusing, I never got into getting familiar with them just because the compiler usually generates awful code :) |
| 23:51.17 | LiraNuna | ssvb, in 4.2.1 they ARE awful |
| 23:51.32 | ssvb | 4.5.0 is not much better |
| 23:51.39 | LiraNuna | 4.4.3 is what I'm using |
| 23:51.47 | LiraNuna | but yeah, at least it doesn't ICEs |
| 23:51.55 | LiraNuna | s/s// |
| 23:52.01 | LiraNuna | :| |
| 23:52.14 | LiraNuna | ICE* |
| 23:52.30 | *** join/#maemo geek00l_ (~geek00l@175.144.169.105) |
| 23:53.47 | LiraNuna | ssvb, intrinsics -> SSE code in GCC works VERY well |
| 23:54.08 | LiraNuna | I believe GCC's core for them is the same, since it recognizes both as vs4f |
| 23:54.12 | *** join/#maemo danielsilva1 (~dsilva@76-218-202-233.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:54.35 | LiraNuna | for now I'm only playing with float32x4_t (.f32 opcodes) |
| 23:54.52 | ssvb | LiraNuna: x86 is usually out-of-order, so it's compensating compiler stupidity a lot :) |
| 23:54.59 | LiraNuna | hahahaha |
| 23:55.12 | LiraNuna | ssvb, http://www.liranuna.com/sse-intrinsics-optimizations-in-popular-compilers/ |
| 23:55.24 | LiraNuna | it's quite good |
| 23:56.52 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil_ (~Speedevil@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 23:57.21 | LiraNuna | ssvb, I wrote a 'vec4' class that will do a lot of optimized operations for the programmer even if the programmer does awful mistakes |
| 23:58.34 | LiraNuna | ssvb, I would like to have that class for NEON as well |
| 23:58.54 | LiraNuna | ssvb, that's why I am confident in GCC's code generation abilities :) |
| 23:59.39 | ssvb | LiraNuna: don't forget to report "missing-optimization" bugs to gcc if you notice something strange :) |
| 23:59.46 | LiraNuna | ssvb, I did! |
| 23:59.51 | LiraNuna | http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=43147 |
| 23:59.52 | povbot | Bug 43147: was not found. |
