| 00:01.32 | jacekowski | not really |
| 00:01.42 | jacekowski | microB seems to be better |
| 00:02.35 | Arif_ | microb is good enough |
| 00:02.38 | Arif_ | no need for furryfox |
| 00:02.39 | *** join/#maemo radic_ (~radic@p4FDA9353.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:03.04 | tripzero | votes for ovi nav to come to n900 today |
| 00:03.18 | Lumpio- | If only microB supported Weave |
| 00:03.38 | Arif_ | tripzero, on a saturday? |
| 00:03.40 | *** join/#maemo anotnac (~chatzilla@cpc2-dudl9-2-0-cust805.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 00:03.49 | tripzero | it's still friday here |
| 00:03.54 | pronto | http://imgur.com/Wzd7h.jpg two feet of snow :o |
| 00:04.00 | Arif_ | not in Finlandia |
| 00:04.09 | tripzero | i'll settle for monday if i have to |
| 00:04.10 | tripzero | :P |
| 00:04.19 | Arif_ | well.. |
| 00:04.22 | Arif_ | dreamon! |
| 00:04.23 | Arif_ | :P |
| 00:04.36 | tripzero | i know.. :| |
| 00:04.42 | lcuk | lol promulo |
| 00:04.47 | lcuk | pronto even |
| 00:05.12 | pronto | :D |
| 00:07.36 | jacekowski | why this crappy ovi store can't remember what phone i've got |
| 00:07.45 | jacekowski | and every time i go there it shows me shit for n97 |
| 00:07.46 | Arif_ | you need to enter your current password |
| 00:07.52 | Arif_ | and login |
| 00:07.57 | jacekowski | i did that |
| 00:08.07 | jacekowski | and changed my phone in settings |
| 00:08.17 | jacekowski | and when i go to shop next time |
| 00:08.19 | jacekowski | and log in again |
| 00:08.23 | jacekowski | i have n97 again |
| 00:08.36 | jacekowski | it's stored in cookies |
| 00:08.45 | Arif_ | enter your current password on the select phone page |
| 00:08.46 | Arif_ | o.o |
| 00:09.33 | jacekowski | mhm |
| 00:09.36 | jacekowski | that's stupid |
| 00:09.57 | Arif_ | yes it is |
| 00:10.08 | Arif_ | and there's nothing worht downloading on the N900 ovi store anyway |
| 00:10.44 | tybollt | hmm |
| 00:10.52 | tybollt | is need HALP |
| 00:11.00 | tybollt | \o/ |
| 00:11.15 | jacekowski | i just hope that something will change |
| 00:11.23 | range | Well, the angry bird levels seem to be back. |
| 00:11.34 | Arif_ | they're gone again |
| 00:11.38 | range | Again? |
| 00:11.41 | Arif_ | yes |
| 00:11.51 | range | Oh. Great. |
| 00:12.18 | Lumpio- | hahah |
| 00:12.20 | range | Looks like ovi will put *teh fear* into other app stores :) |
| 00:12.30 | Lumpio- | Well, luckily we have repositories. |
| 00:14.33 | Arif_ | it only had creditcard support anyway |
| 00:16.00 | jacekowski | what's wrong with CC |
| 00:16.06 | Arif_ | I don't have one |
| 00:16.16 | *** join/#maemo djdm (~deejaydee@rbldn.demon.co.uk) |
| 00:16.47 | tybollt | hmmm |
| 00:16.58 | Arif_ | and even if I had |
| 00:17.17 | Arif_ | I refuse to pay â¬3 for half a game that's only 60 cents on the iPhone store and that's the FULL game |
| 00:17.22 | tybollt | how do I control the volume of the alarm on the n900? |
| 00:17.46 | Arif_ | in the profiles? |
| 00:17.58 | tybollt | hmm ok |
| 00:18.10 | Arif_ | oh no |
| 00:18.12 | Arif_ | apparently not |
| 00:18.20 | tybollt | right |
| 00:18.25 | tybollt | I think I checked that |
| 00:18.31 | ShadowJK | CC is like .. "Why do you need /credit/? Don't you have money? Oh you have money? Then you don't need credit. GTFO." |
| 00:18.34 | ShadowJK | or "Why do you need credit? Don't you have money? Oh you don't, then how can you pay? Oh you can't, well GTFO." |
| 00:19.05 | tybollt | arif: I sleep hard I need louder alarm :) |
| 00:19.37 | Arif_ | I wake up from the vibration before the alarm even starts ringing |
| 00:19.42 | Arif_ | :D |
| 00:19.49 | tybollt | :D |
| 00:20.11 | Arif_ | ShadowJK, I have a bank card that I can't use on Ovi |
| 00:20.20 | *** join/#maemo victorpoluceno (~victorpol@187.5.147.234) |
| 00:20.28 | Arif_ | and I got banned from paypal because they found out I was <18 |
| 00:20.33 | Arif_ | =D |
| 00:20.37 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 00:20.59 | ShadowJK | bank cards are easy to get, because they aren't a loan :) |
| 00:21.15 | Arif_ | I could get a cc too |
| 00:21.33 | Arif_ | but why would I get one just to buy an overpriced half game |
| 00:21.34 | Arif_ | ;P |
| 00:21.44 | jef91 | Anyone else had issues with AIM not being able to login under IM accounts? |
| 00:22.09 | Arif_ | has no aim |
| 00:22.12 | Arif_ | ...wait |
| 00:22.18 | Arif_ | that sounds wrong |
| 00:22.25 | Arif_ | has no aim account! |
| 00:23.37 | ShadowJK | and CC's cost money, even when you fall in that narrow gap where you don't have too much money that asking for a loan is suspicious, and where you're not too poor to qualify for a loan |
| 00:23.54 | zerojay | jef91: If you are having a problem, look at Advanced options and see if a port number is listed. If not, add 5190. |
| 00:24.03 | Arif_ | ShadowJK, they cost money to have too! |
| 00:24.09 | Arif_ | like â¬50 a year |
| 00:24.16 | Arif_ | which I can waste on other stuff ;( |
| 00:24.51 | *** join/#maemo leandroal (~leandro@189.71.123.128) |
| 00:25.13 | jacekowski | ShadowJK: well, i have free CC |
| 00:25.33 | *** join/#maemo JoeBrain (~JoeBrain@173-11-92-50-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 00:25.34 | jef91 | zerojay no dice on adding the port :( |
| 00:25.56 | jacekowski | ShadowJK: and for me it's better to use CC because i don't pay foreign transaction fee if i go abroad |
| 00:26.02 | jacekowski | ShadowJK: while on debit card i pay |
| 00:26.22 | jacekowski | ShadowJK: and if i pay it within 60 days there is no intrest |
| 00:26.25 | Arif_ | pokes jacekowski with the EU |
| 00:26.25 | jacekowski | interest* |
| 00:26.47 | jacekowski | i'm in EU |
| 00:26.59 | ShadowJK | Yeah that's what I meant :) |
| 00:26.59 | ShadowJK | Arif_, it amazes me to this day that there are some sellers out there that don't accept normal bank cards, atleast with those they know immediately whether the customer has money or not |
| 00:27.02 | Arif_ | you don't have those costs in the EU...at my bank at least :O |
| 00:27.17 | jacekowski | Arif_: i do have to pay fee if i use my debit card abroad |
| 00:27.23 | Arif_ | hmm |
| 00:27.24 | Arif_ | I don't |
| 00:27.26 | jacekowski | Arif_: but not if i pay with CC |
| 00:27.34 | Arif_ | even in Turkey I can use it |
| 00:27.56 | *** join/#maemo jgoss (~josh@unaffiliated/jgoss) |
| 00:28.03 | Arif_ | ShadowJK, in Holland there's a payment method called iDEAL where you can pay on most Dutch webshops with your debit card |
| 00:28.13 | Arif_ | that's why CCs aren't very popular here I guess |
| 00:28.23 | zerojay | jef91: Was it missing? |
| 00:28.25 | jacekowski | well, i've got visa debit and mastercard and maestro and amex |
| 00:28.36 | jacekowski | pretty much all you can get |
| 00:28.37 | jef91 | zerojay Yes. And adding it made no change |
| 00:28.51 | jacekowski | and i can pay pretty much everywhere with that debit card |
| 00:28.52 | zerojay | jef91: Check again. You might have canceled it instead of saving it. |
| 00:28.57 | jef91 | the server is: login.messaging.aol.com |
| 00:29.12 | jef91 | No it saved, I checked and double checked |
| 00:29.24 | zerojay | Okay, set yourself offline and the back online. |
| 00:29.25 | Arif_ | I want the Mastercard paypass in .nl |
| 00:29.28 | Arif_ | ;( |
| 00:29.29 | ShadowJK | Arif_, in finland you can pay without cards on most webshops, and the same transaction method is accepted as proof of ID (with 0euro transaction) :)) |
| 00:29.49 | Arif_ | how do you pay then |
| 00:29.51 | Arif_ | at the door? :P |
| 00:30.10 | ShadowJK | online |
| 00:30.15 | *** join/#maemo jayabharath (~a0866114@nat/ti/x-mbcxvrxwkpnsmzph) |
| 00:30.18 | Arif_ | bank transfer? |
| 00:30.24 | Lumpio- | It's not a 0EUR transaction |
| 00:30.35 | Lumpio- | They have a standard API for identification and it doesn't count as a transaction |
| 00:30.47 | jef91 | Oh wait, yea just did that and it worked Zerojay thanks :D |
| 00:31.48 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~wazd@188.123.241.73) |
| 00:31.52 | ShadowJK | You pay via your bank's web interface. It requires a username/pin, plus a one time password. Some banks have these little battery-operated keys that display a number that is unique for that key, and valid for half a minute at the time, or something, instead of the one-time password list |
| 00:32.17 | Arif_ | ah |
| 00:32.21 | Arif_ | that's the same as iDEAL here |
| 00:32.25 | jacekowski | that's pointless |
| 00:32.30 | jacekowski | it's not portable |
| 00:32.37 | Arif_ | portable? |
| 00:32.44 | jacekowski | CC is portable and accepted worldwide |
| 00:33.04 | Arif_ | I'm not paying for a CC I'll never use ;p |
| 00:33.10 | jacekowski | it's free here |
| 00:33.14 | jacekowski | esspecialy if you could just generate like a one time CC number |
| 00:33.39 | jacekowski | so you go to your bank webpage - generate CC with £1 to £1000 limit or whatever |
| 00:33.55 | jacekowski | so you can use it on some suspicious website |
| 00:34.02 | *** join/#maemo mikhas (~michael@p4FC23FCF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:34.09 | Arif_ | wish we had free CCs |
| 00:34.19 | Arif_ | it'd make buying crap off DX much more easier :D |
| 00:34.46 | jacekowski | i don't really understand how bank makes profit |
| 00:34.58 | jacekowski | when i got my CC i had completly free acount |
| 00:35.16 | Arif_ | they make money off people that don't pay their debt |
| 00:35.36 | Arif_ | and part of your purchase goes to the CC company :p |
| 00:35.43 | Lumpio- | I doubt the money they charge you for credit cards or other services is really such a large part of their profit |
| 00:35.47 | Lumpio- | They collect interest |
| 00:35.50 | jacekowski | they made profit on me only once |
| 00:35.57 | Lumpio- | I wonder if banks are allowed to invest their customers' money |
| 00:36.00 | jacekowski | when i had to get 1k in the evening |
| 00:36.04 | jacekowski | Lumpio-: they are |
| 00:36.13 | Lumpio- | figures |
| 00:36.19 | Arif_ | that's how they get bankrupt and the whole crisis nonsense started :P |
| 00:36.22 | Lumpio- | But yeah, that's how they make money. |
| 00:36.31 | jacekowski | Lumpio-: that's 10% has to go to bank of england |
| 00:36.44 | Lumpio- | what? |
| 00:36.45 | jacekowski | Lumpio-: and they can do whatever they want with 90% |
| 00:36.53 | ShadowJK | I think the best part of it is that it works without the need for cards that are decoupled from your real accounts, and you don't have to pay 50 Euro per year to Visa or Mastercard :) |
| 00:37.09 | jacekowski | Lumpio-: 10% of deposited money go to bank of england, and 90% is invested |
| 00:37.29 | Arif_ | goes to sleep :yawn: |
| 00:37.57 | ShadowJK | There would probably be cheaper CC's if Mastercard and Visa actually competed with eachother, but instead they formed luottokunta which is this cartel which controls credit cards and other forms of consumer credit.. but the point is, I don't want credit, I just want to move money from myself to the seller, and for this I don't wnat to go through the highly expensive mastercard/visa cartel, when there's an existing payments infracstructure in place, that w |
| 00:37.57 | *** join/#maemo dl9pf_ (~quassel@p5B216AF5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:38.03 | ShadowJK | orks online, works in realtime, is easy to use, and costs me nothing :) |
| 00:38.14 | jacekowski | ShadowJK: i have free CC |
| 00:38.31 | ShadowJK | if Ovi wants to force me to use a card which, IF I QUALIFY to that narrow gap between not earning too much, and not earning too little, costs 50 - 300 Euro per year, then so be it... |
| 00:38.33 | Lumpio- | oh |
| 00:38.47 | *** join/#maemo dl9pf (~quassel@opensuse/member/dl9pf) |
| 00:38.56 | jacekowski | and if you earn too much you don't have any problems getting CC |
| 00:39.02 | jacekowski | it's when you earn too little |
| 00:39.46 | ShadowJK | jacekowski, I tried before they told me I don't need credit because I had 10,000 on deposit, and gave me a bank card instead |
| 00:40.08 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~pupnik@248.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 00:40.14 | jacekowski | you just apply for a card |
| 00:40.27 | jacekowski | online |
| 00:40.33 | pupnik | right im in a fun club |
| 00:40.40 | jacekowski | but anyways |
| 00:40.42 | jacekowski | time to sleep |
| 00:40.49 | ShadowJK | and they call me and invite me to face to face meeting to give me bank card |
| 00:41.12 | pupnik | how do i stream thew party right now to irc? |
| 00:41.37 | ShadowJK | And apparently they don't do "0 credit" cards either. |
| 00:41.52 | ShadowJK | like, pay 1000 or something into it in advance |
| 00:41.59 | jacekowski | you can always get debit card |
| 00:42.18 | ShadowJK | Yeah but it rarely works on sites outside the country |
| 00:42.28 | jacekowski | depends on card |
| 00:42.29 | ShadowJK | though it works on paypal |
| 00:42.33 | jacekowski | if you get like a visa debit |
| 00:42.35 | jacekowski | or something |
| 00:42.40 | jacekowski | it works fine worldwide |
| 00:43.05 | ShadowJK | Visa Electron was what they offered before, it worked on paypal and ryanair, but that was about it :P |
| 00:43.13 | ShadowJK | i think they're offering visa debit now |
| 00:43.17 | ShadowJK | but it costs more money than electron :/ |
| 00:43.41 | jacekowski | giving electron to people should be illegal |
| 00:43.47 | jacekowski | it's pretty much useless |
| 00:43.53 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~pupnik@248.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 00:44.15 | ShadowJK | it cost 0 to use it with ryanair :D |
| 00:44.18 | jacekowski | and well, as i said - it's free here |
| 00:44.24 | ShadowJK | while as using Visa or Visa Debit with ryanair costs something like 50E :) |
| 00:44.29 | *** join/#maemo ZogG (~zoggrules@bzq-79-177-30-30.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 00:44.32 | Lumpio- | jacekowski: Really? |
| 00:44.39 | Lumpio- | I've yet to ran to a place that doesn't accept Electron |
| 00:44.39 | jacekowski | more like £5 |
| 00:45.02 | Lumpio- | I don't do that much online shopping though, and even then I'd rather not use a credit card. And PayPal accept Electron. |
| 00:45.13 | jacekowski | Lumpio-: whole africa |
| 00:45.18 | pupnik | yall im gonna N900 vid beautiful women |
| 00:45.18 | jacekowski | Lumpio-: north america |
| 00:45.28 | Lumpio- | Well I don't go to 3rd world countries like that |
| 00:45.38 | pupnik | but no fast way to share the fun |
| 00:45.46 | jacekowski | Lumpio-: and lot of places in countries where banks don't give out electrons to people |
| 00:45.49 | jacekowski | like UK |
| 00:45.57 | Lumpio- | I know it might be useless in foreign countries but I don't go to weird countries. |
| 00:46.13 | jacekowski | UK isn't a strange country |
| 00:46.18 | Lumpio- | Also it's free until I turn 26 or something |
| 00:46.43 | ShadowJK | electron works in most of europe, atleast in ATMs |
| 00:47.21 | jacekowski | not here |
| 00:47.33 | jacekowski | only place here that accepts electrons is mcdonalds |
| 00:48.59 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (~david@c-67-174-39-138.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:49.10 | ShadowJK | I think 100% of shops here are accepting electron now... mostly because banks abolished bank cards and had to start issuing visa debit instead, so all the equipment had to be renewed anyway.. |
| 00:49.30 | ShadowJK | and banks had to abolish the cheap bank cards because of eu :( |
| 00:49.34 | jacekowski | it's not about equipment |
| 00:49.49 | jacekowski | bullshit |
| 00:49.54 | jacekowski | it's bank policy |
| 00:50.11 | jacekowski | banks here in EU gives out free debit and credit cards |
| 00:50.45 | ShadowJK | No they had to give up the bank cards because they don't work in all of eu |
| 00:50.59 | ShadowJK | and they can only issue new cards that work in all of eu |
| 00:51.37 | jacekowski | and going back to equipment |
| 00:51.47 | jacekowski | it's only software that decides what cards are supporte |
| 00:51.47 | jacekowski | d |
| 00:51.54 | ShadowJK | chip and pin too |
| 00:52.09 | jacekowski | that would require upgrade |
| 00:52.42 | jacekowski | but after you get chip&pin terminal you only need software change ( it's done automaticaly ) |
| 00:55.06 | auenf | maestro/cirrus debit cards? |
| 01:00.26 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi) |
| 01:02.48 | *** join/#maemo Gadgetoid_mbp (~phil@cpc3-nrwh9-2-0-cust561.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 01:04.47 | *** join/#maemo wizkoder (~quassel@201.244.97.90) |
| 01:07.26 | *** join/#maemo dracflamloc (~dracflaml@adsl-243-112-118.sav.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:14.08 | *** join/#maemo kkb110 (~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu) |
| 01:14.18 | *** join/#maemo t7g_ (~t7g@d14-69-127-101.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 01:19.17 | *** join/#maemo wizkoder (~quassel@201.244.97.90) |
| 01:22.06 | *** join/#maemo |R (~bob@66.49.172.22) |
| 01:32.00 | *** join/#maemo bleeter (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 01:32.21 | pupnik | fuck |
| 01:32.25 | pupnik | all the kids are mocking my linux |
| 01:33.05 | *** join/#maemo heaviside (~heaviside@81.90.21.225) |
| 01:35.11 | *** part/#maemo heaviside (~heaviside@81.90.21.225) |
| 01:35.40 | *** join/#maemo other_ (~chris@81.90.21.225) |
| 01:46.27 | *** join/#maemo wiretapped (~leif@pony.noisebridge.net) |
| 01:50.47 | *** join/#maemo Funnyface (~user734@76.89-11-145.nextgentel.com) |
| 01:54.58 | Funnyface | Hello, I am planning to buy an N900, and have looked around on the web about known issues with the devices. I found some threads where they discussed a microphone problem, random reboots, and some wifi and bluetooth bugs. But most of these threads date back to around Nov 2009. Any idea what the current state of these issues is? |
| 01:57.43 | dockane | Funnyface: i dont think you are going to get happy with n900 if you try to find a completly working smartphone. instead its fairly good working tablet with good enough working phone function set for the most nerds around me here |
| 01:59.03 | Funnyface | dockane: I can live with most software related stuff, because there is mostly a workaround to that, but I don't want to end up with yet another device where the hardware simply doesn't work as expected, like my old smart phone :P |
| 01:59.13 | ShadowJK | The random reboots was resolved an update |
| 01:59.17 | ShadowJK | in an* |
| 01:59.21 | Funnyface | ok great |
| 01:59.46 | ShadowJK | I'm not sure about the status of microphone problems, but they should be covered under warranty |
| 01:59.57 | ShadowJK | I think the current big topic is the USB port |
| 02:00.07 | Funnyface | it comes loose after a while? |
| 02:00.26 | *** join/#maemo tgalal_ (~tarek@196.205.152.140) |
| 02:01.08 | ShadowJK | Yeah. Some ports/plug combinations are very tight, and require a lot of force to unplug. The "workaround" seems to be to take the micro-usb plug and press the "teeth" in with your thumbnail, so that the latching force is reduced considerably, making it less likely that you'll damage the usb port |
| 02:02.18 | Funnyface | yeah sounds like an idea |
| 02:02.21 | ShadowJK | In the original firmware, using wifi and bluetooth at the same time was pretty much a disaster. According to forums, this was "fixed" with the first major update |
| 02:02.36 | ShadowJK | bluetooth is as good as bluetooth in general is, in my experience.. |
| 02:04.07 | ShadowJK | Might I ask what kind of user you are? on the scale of the generic "N900 looks like an awesome phone" type (I doubt, since you use freenode?), and "I'm a linux power user and want a linuxphone"-type, where would you say you are? ;-) |
| 02:05.27 | dockane | Funnyface: hardware works quite well afaict |
| 02:05.35 | ShadowJK | yes |
| 02:05.40 | luke-jr | suspects most people here are "N900 comes with root!" <.< |
| 02:05.48 | ShadowJK | :) |
| 02:06.00 | Lumpio- | \o/ |
| 02:06.36 | Funnyface | uhm somewhere in between I guess.. I am not a programmer, and have limited experience with linux, but I still like to play around with things and tweak settings and the like.. |
| 02:07.04 | Lumpio- | Oh, you need to be able to write shell scripts to make a call |
| 02:07.07 | Lumpio- | Nowait, that was openmoko |
| 02:07.27 | luke-jr | Lumpio-: that's what I want :D |
| 02:07.57 | ShadowJK | Funnyface, re wifi, there's a bug that hits some people when they leave home for work and such, that the wifi is left consuming power. It helps to disable "Switch to WLAN when available", and also a "ifconfig wlan0 down" from a rootshell works. There was supposedly a fix for this in the last minor upgrade, and I haven't encountered the issue myself since then. |
| 02:08.52 | Funnyface | hehe well that's fine |
| 02:08.58 | ShadowJK | In general, there are some phone features and some smartphone features, that some people except to be present, missing from the N900 |
| 02:09.13 | dockane | ShadowJK: me knows shell scripting to get things done and a bit where to copy and paste from |
| 02:09.43 | Funnyface | I might get some high capacity battery later on if I order the N900. haven't found any such batteries yet, but it might be an idea for a device like this |
| 02:10.08 | nomis | Are there smartphones where the battery lasts e.g. a week? |
| 02:10.16 | ShadowJK | Mugen power has one, or will have one, it increases the thickness of the N900 (some people think it's too thick already). |
| 02:10.22 | ShadowJK | nomis, no. Not if you use them. |
| 02:10.23 | raster | hmm speaking of n900... why is the maemo5 sdk so screwed? |
| 02:10.36 | raster | it never sets sbox_emulation_method |
| 02:10.51 | ShadowJK | nomis, My N900 lasts longer on battery than my Nokia E75, and the N900 does more work |
| 02:11.35 | ShadowJK | Since the browser allows multiple windows, I enter a forum and open each thread in a new window and then read them. This results in more web pages displayed than on E75. Yet it lasts longer on battery |
| 02:11.56 | Funnyface | it's probably going to be better than my current windows mobile phone anyway, 2 hours of use at the most and the battery is dead |
| 02:12.01 | luke-jr | nomis: N810 claimed a month, but lasted 3 hours or so at best :p |
| 02:12.06 | nomis | :) |
| 02:12.33 | ShadowJK | I always had Instant Messaging (IRC) and stuff going on the E75 too though. People who don't run anything internet on E75, and just use it to make phone calls, probably get a week or two of standby life. |
| 02:12.57 | ShadowJK | But I was at about 7 hours casual use and 12 hours idle (on IRC, screen off) use with it. |
| 02:13.14 | raster | nomis: yes. most smartphones will last a week - if you turn off wifi, bt, never actually turn the screen on or run anything and keep it on 2g mode. |
| 02:13.15 | raster | :) |
| 02:13.21 | luke-jr | ShadowJK: IRC is just asking for trouble :P |
| 02:13.33 | luke-jr | at least if you're in any active channels |
| 02:13.37 | Funnyface | does 2G in fact consume less power than 3G? |
| 02:13.41 | ShadowJK | My N900 does about 14-18 hours in the idling on irc scenario, and about 12 hours in the irc+casual browsing while at work scenario :) |
| 02:13.44 | luke-jr | someone needs to make a smart Quassel client <.< |
| 02:13.45 | ShadowJK | Funnyface, it does |
| 02:13.50 | raster | Funnyface: yes. |
| 02:14.00 | luke-jr | tell the server to only talk when the window is active or needs to highlight your nick |
| 02:14.06 | ShadowJK | Funnyface, especially if you use anything that transfers small amounts of data frequently, like instant messaging, skype, irc, msn, etc |
| 02:14.43 | raster | as such with normal usage (noirmal meanign the average joe - ie u take phone out ot check time a few times a day, do a bit of messaging, a few sharot-ish calls) most phones - smartphones included should last about 24hrs |
| 02:14.50 | raster | and then be low enough to need a recharge |
| 02:14.57 | raster | thats pretty much the norm |
| 02:15.11 | *** join/#maemo wizkoder (~quassel@201.244.97.90) |
| 02:15.20 | raster | regardless what u read in the hrs of talk/standby etc. time thats what the average seems to hover around |
| 02:15.36 | Funnyface | alright. I never noticed much of a difference with my current device |
| 02:15.37 | ShadowJK | The problem with 3g is that a single packet of data transfered keeps the radio active for some 5-10 seconds (this is something somewhat inherent to 3g tech, depends alot on the operator too), so if yo have a few IM accounts with their keep-alive packets, background protocol data, some chat activity, etc, the 3g radio is kept constantly transmitting and the battery drains in 3-6 hours :) |
| 02:16.05 | Funnyface | but I guess that the rest of the hardware consumes more power, so the radio's consumption is kind of insignificant |
| 02:16.16 | ShadowJK | gprs/edge is much better for that case. wifi (with a proper Access Point that supports wifi powersaving) is even better |
| 02:17.20 | ShadowJK | There are ways to make the N900 battery die in 1.5 hours too :) |
| 02:17.38 | ShadowJK | Like downloading at 10 megabits/sec from 3g for 1.5 hours |
| 02:17.48 | raster | Funnyface: with screen off and cpu on buyt in a lowe power mode (eg clocked down to 50 or 100mhz as it may be when u sit on im but are not actively participating) your modem wi.ll consume a large amount of your power |
| 02:17.55 | raster | probably at least half |
| 02:18.01 | ShadowJK | more than half :) |
| 02:18.02 | raster | (if its kept active) |
| 02:18.42 | Funnyface | and just one last thing.. if I somehow manage to screw up maemo so it won't boot, can the device be reinstalled without maemo running? |
| 02:18.50 | ShadowJK | yes |
| 02:19.08 | Funnyface | ok |
| 02:19.10 | sheepbat | use flasher |
| 02:19.17 | ShadowJK | warning: battery charging doesn't work when maemo is screwed |
| 02:19.19 | Funnyface | I think I will order it soon then :) |
| 02:19.21 | sheepbat | you can plug it into the computer and directly write to the NAND |
| 02:19.25 | ShadowJK | warning: flashing doesn't work if battery is empty |
| 02:19.29 | sheepbat | yeah.. that is a good warning |
| 02:19.30 | ShadowJK | so do your screwing with full battery ;) |
| 02:19.37 | sheepbat | charge it first |
| 02:19.43 | Funnyface | hehe ok |
| 02:20.10 | Funnyface | well in the worst case I guess I could get hold of a second battery |
| 02:20.10 | ShadowJK | And you need to be able to follow instructions in order to reflash with dead OS |
| 02:20.16 | Funnyface | or charge mine in someone else's devices |
| 02:20.37 | ShadowJK | something like remove battery, plug in cable, start flasher on host PC, press u and hold on device, put in battery... |
| 02:20.46 | ShadowJK | i forget the exact sequence, but it's on the wiki.. |
| 02:20.52 | ShadowJK | yeah. |
| 02:21.04 | Funnyface | yeah, as long as I won't leave the device bricked because of a software issue, it is fine |
| 02:22.46 | raster | Funnyface: i've had to reflash mine mayve 10 times since i got it around end of the year. it bricked itself while in my pocket too |
| 02:23.10 | Funnyface | haha |
| 02:23.13 | raster | somehow it managed to un-brick if i plugged and unplugged it in often enough so finsally a usb device registered and i could run flasher |
| 02:23.21 | ShadowJK | We don't have energy profiling on N900.. but if I cheat and compare N810/N800 idling with xchat on IRC, which is about 20-30 milliamps... and E75 sharing 3g/hsdpa over bluetooth to the idling N810.. then the 3f radio part is about 90% of power.. :/ |
| 02:23.24 | raster | and cosmic rays hit it at the right time and place |
| 02:23.27 | raster | and god knows what else |
| 02:23.52 | raster | its probably the most unstable device i have.. and thats including my prototypes :) |
| 02:23.58 | raster | and a freerunner. :) |
| 02:23.59 | ShadowJK | what do you do to it.. |
| 02:24.05 | ShadowJK | mine just keeps running ;) |
| 02:24.17 | raster | ShadowJK: stick it in a pocket. use it to make calls. thats about it. |
| 02:24.23 | ShadowJK | wtf :) |
| 02:24.33 | raster | the odd webpage here and there |
| 02:24.35 | nomis | Omweather update: now it can't decide if it supports 4 or 5 stations. Grmbl. |
| 02:24.46 | raster | gui keesp doing that "Reset itself" thing |
| 02:24.52 | nomis | but *maybe* the GPS issue is fixed... |
| 02:25.00 | ShadowJK | I use mine for idling on 30 irc channels, browse internets, sometimes 40+ windows open, use it for download podcasts on gpodder, including videos for youtube... |
| 02:25.00 | raster | the "incredibly rare opengles memory bug" |
| 02:25.06 | raster | ie happens 10 times in 5 minutes |
| 02:25.07 | raster | or more |
| 02:25.27 | ShadowJK | ah the "it only happens for you so we can't fix it"-type of bugs :( |
| 02:25.47 | raster | i've been hit by the "stuck dot" problem after it totally crashed badly and rebooted about 10 times |
| 02:25.49 | raster | thus the reflash |
| 02:26.24 | Funnyface | are you trying to scare me into not getting one, or is this issues you've actually had? :P |
| 02:26.33 | raster | ShadowJK: they happen to toehr people. it just happens to me on a daily/hourly/minutely basis. |
| 02:26.43 | ShadowJK | sucks :( |
| 02:26.45 | dockane | me uses n900 for an average request of 10 websites per day, half and half done via umts and wlan, 2-3 calls and 2-3 h mp3 playback. baterrey has to be reloaded every 1.5 days |
| 02:26.51 | johnsu01 | Mine had the stuck dot probably when I first got it, but flashing it has fixed it |
| 02:26.58 | johnsu01 | s/probably/problem |
| 02:27.13 | raster | johnsu01: yeah. flashing fixes it.. until it happens again |
| 02:27.13 | raster | :) |
| 02:27.16 | johnsu01 | it's been very stable since, at least as stable as symbian on my old e61 |
| 02:28.22 | ShadowJK | I think I've had one unexpected reset/reboot in total since getting it in december :) |
| 02:28.25 | raster | also the sdk so far is pretty arsetastic |
| 02:28.38 | raster | download and install pere instructions |
| 02:28.44 | raster | comes up with no sbox emulation method set |
| 02:28.47 | raster | so nothnig compiles |
| 02:29.04 | raster | fan-bloody tastic |
| 02:29.17 | ShadowJK | dunno, the SDK is somewhat easier than installing codesourcery and figuring out how to manually crosscompile random things :) |
| 02:29.21 | raster | u ned up fiddling and guessing - usntalling some extra qemu packages on host it didnt |
| 02:29.31 | raster | then u can finally select a cputransp method as its offered in sb-menu |
| 02:29.36 | ShadowJK | but then again I just downloaded the ubuntu vm image with the sdk already setup |
| 02:29.39 | raster | and.. it still doesnt set the emualation method env |
| 02:29.55 | Funnyface | how long do you reckon the N900's battery lasts at 100% CPU load then? :p |
| 02:29.56 | raster | u set it by hand and not things compile but dpkg/apt barf witn invalid instruction issues |
| 02:29.57 | raster | yay! |
| 02:30.05 | Funnyface | e.g. if you were to leave it encoding video in your pocket.. |
| 02:30.05 | johnsu01 | huh, never noticed any issue with it, and I've set it up twice now and am not exactly a pro at this stuff |
| 02:30.18 | *** join/#maemo jabis (~jabis@69.162.91.23) |
| 02:30.21 | raster | Funnyface: screen on or off? |
| 02:30.30 | Funnyface | either |
| 02:30.32 | Funnyface | on |
| 02:30.43 | raster | johnsu01: it's never set up qemu emulation for me - and i've instaleld it 3 times |
| 02:30.49 | ShadowJK | Funnyface, if I had to guess, 4 hours |
| 02:30.56 | ShadowJK | maybe 6 |
| 02:30.58 | Funnyface | that's good then |
| 02:31.02 | raster | Funnyface: my guess is 4hrs with screen off maybe 5 |
| 02:31.17 | raster | screen on - 3... maybe. |
| 02:31.20 | Funnyface | I hope these hong kong sellers will put up high capacity batteries and back covers on ebay soon :p |
| 02:31.34 | Funnyface | 2700mAh batteries or so :> |
| 02:31.43 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi) |
| 02:31.50 | ShadowJK | http://shop.eten.hu/nokia/nokia-n900/mugen-power-nokia-n900-2400mah-extended-replacement-battery-with-battery-door.html |
| 02:31.53 | ShadowJK | costly :/ |
| 02:32.05 | Funnyface | ouch |
| 02:32.08 | johnsu01 | I'm pretty sure mine would die much quicker than that -- it's only good for about an hour of bluetooth tethering (but I think I got a defective battery) |
| 02:32.09 | raster | let me try this sdk install.. for try #4 |
| 02:32.21 | Funnyface | I paid like $12 for the high capacity battery for my old phone |
| 02:32.25 | Funnyface | :p |
| 02:32.29 | ShadowJK | The problem with N900 is that there are a shitload of clueful users, mugen can't just put out a "3000mAh" battery, because the users would quickly figure out it isn't 3000 :) |
| 02:33.31 | ShadowJK | It's kinda scary really.. Mugen is highly regarded as the best provider of third party batteries... but the "1800mAh battery" I got from them for my N800 turned out to advertise itself (to the device) as 1200mAh, and in my test, it tested as 1200 :) |
| 02:33.59 | raster | wonderful waste of money there |
| 02:34.03 | ShadowJK | Mind, it's a Li-Ion so it's holding up better with age than the original Lithium Polymer batteries for N800 and N810 :) |
| 02:34.11 | raster | Funnyface: invariably capacity increases will mean size increases |
| 02:34.25 | raster | so generalluy a high capacity baery is really not possible to stick inthe same space |
| 02:34.37 | Funnyface | raster: yeah it'll need a thicker back cover |
| 02:34.44 | raster | unless they have a massive improvement in battery tech stuck in there - which is realtivelt unlikely |
| 02:34.50 | raster | Funnyface: yup. |
| 02:35.01 | raster | if u can make it bigger -0 then you can double the capacity... |
| 02:35.20 | Funnyface | also, I believe when you have a double capacity battery, it'll last for longer than twice as long |
| 02:35.24 | ShadowJK | Like, if you buy an original Nokia battery from some random e-tailer, chances are the battery has sat on the shelf for so long that its actual capacity is below the Mugen's 1200mAh... And certainly, if you buy the mugen because you've owned the N8x0 for awhile, discovered more things to use it for, but want more battery life, then chances are the fresh Mugen at 1200mAh will have more capacity than the original old nokia that was 1500mAh a year ago :) |
| 02:35.37 | Funnyface | because small batteries struggle at delivering peak power efficiently |
| 02:35.47 | ShadowJK | yes |
| 02:36.21 | Funnyface | if you run all the power consuming features at once on the normal battery, and that means 30% losses in heat, a double sized battery (of equal quality) will mean only 15% losses |
| 02:36.44 | ShadowJK | Again using my N8x0 as example, because I've got a fairly accurate metering setup there, there's about 10%-20% difference (with a slightly aged battery) between use as media player (high drain) and idle internet chat (medium drain) :) |
| 02:37.49 | *** join/#maemo FSCV (~SCV@189.141.3.195) |
| 02:38.42 | raster | ok q |
| 02:38.43 | Funnyface | brb |
| 02:38.46 | raster | how do u install the sdk? |
| 02:44.17 | DocScrutinizer | this eten bat extender is ridiculous. in 7mm full plane the could have packed a 3500mAh easily. And I wonder how tF the main cam is supposed to work |
| 02:45.26 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: huh? LiPo aging faster than LiIon? |
| 02:46.49 | Dantonic | hey if I create a desktop icon under /usr/share/Applications/hildon how can I assign it a category so that Catorize can place it under one? |
| 02:47.57 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, yes |
| 02:48.41 | ShadowJK | Well, atleast the mugen/eten batteries age slower in my use :) |
| 02:48.48 | ShadowJK | speaking of... |
| 02:49.05 | ShadowJK | it's the last few days to preorder N900 extended battery at the "special" price.. |
| 02:49.07 | *** join/#maemo ferdna (~ferdna@cpe-24-92-116-113.elp.res.rr.com) |
| 02:49.44 | DocScrutinizer | that may explain a bit. My 6210 battery was at maybe 75% after 8 years of 24/7 use |
| 02:50.05 | ShadowJK | I suspect the camera in worst case will be a transparent window |
| 02:50.16 | Funnyface | I will order the N900 tomorrow then :) |
| 02:50.16 | ShadowJK | with no moving parts |
| 02:50.27 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: ack |
| 02:50.37 | DocScrutinizer | :-/ |
| 02:50.53 | DocScrutinizer | I don't want that bulk |
| 02:51.20 | ShadowJK | It's better than my previous bulk... E70 plus AA-battery-powered booster :) |
| 02:51.28 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 02:52.31 | ShadowJK | the booster use with N900 is kinda hard |
| 02:52.44 | DocScrutinizer | I'd prefer to drill 2 1mm holes to the original backlid and build a DIY piggyback to hold a number of AAA |
| 02:52.50 | ShadowJK | like, I used to plug/unplug the booster when taking the device out of pocket, etc |
| 02:52.51 | DocScrutinizer | to snap on |
| 02:53.12 | ShadowJK | but with the microusb the damn plugging/unplugging takes ages to not only align the plug, but also rotate it... |
| 02:53.35 | ShadowJK | they should really have added some plastic bits to the hole to guide it into the receptable |
| 02:53.49 | ShadowJK | instead of just leaving the hole, and then the smaller metal hole of the receptable... |
| 02:54.03 | DocScrutinizer | hrey fsckng should have added 3mm barrel charger receptacle |
| 02:54.11 | ShadowJK | the plug goes in, but you only just cleared the plastic and you're pushing the plug against the exterior metal shell :( |
| 02:54.28 | DocScrutinizer | maybe the 1mm like on n810 |
| 02:54.34 | ShadowJK | i think they call it 2mm |
| 02:55.02 | DocScrutinizer | maybe |
| 02:55.07 | ShadowJK | My E75 has both 2mm and microusb charging... the 2mm was usable for "slide phone into pocket and connect charger at the same time" |
| 02:55.09 | DocScrutinizer | 1,8 |
| 02:55.27 | ShadowJK | They published a spec for it and called it 2mm charging spec, so there :P |
| 02:56.18 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, we got none. Just bloody usb charging |
| 02:56.26 | DocScrutinizer | and no hostmode :-( |
| 02:56.35 | ShadowJK | and no ponies :( |
| 02:58.31 | ShadowJK | iirc the original backlid wasn't all that expensive |
| 02:58.41 | *** join/#maemo taylorqt (~taylorqt@119.121.204.179) |
| 02:58.49 | ShadowJK | there's the issue of finding a shop that will sell it, but.. |
| 03:01.23 | nomis | I wish the backlid would not have this weird bump around the camera. (I know it is a stand, but I'd prefer the device lying flat on the table... |
| 03:01.45 | DocScrutinizer | nomis: 100% ack |
| 03:02.07 | DocScrutinizer | designer's epic fail |
| 03:03.22 | *** part/#maemo taylorqt (~taylorqt@119.121.204.179) |
| 03:03.49 | DocScrutinizer | but recently designers seem to tend to the notion the device _never_ sits on the table and you still would like to operate it |
| 03:03.59 | nomis | if I'd have a spare back I'd probably experiment with adding additional bumps for stability. |
| 03:04.11 | DocScrutinizer | there's a lot of current designs with egg shaped backside |
| 03:04.47 | nomis | yeah, I totally don't understand that. |
| 03:05.22 | ShadowJK | I don't dare use it with the stand open either, it looks way too weak |
| 03:05.53 | raster | stand is rather useless beyond just having it display |
| 03:06.06 | DocScrutinizer | designers obviously giving a shit about real world usage patterns. I've seen a hell of this at some company I won't name here |
| 03:07.16 | acidjazz | any new apps |
| 03:07.18 | acidjazz | worth mentioning |
| 03:07.48 | acidjazz | how muhc longer is the n900 gonna be supported? whens the cutoff day? |
| 03:08.22 | DocScrutinizer | acidjazz: pleeeease don't start another meego killed N900 rant |
| 03:08.26 | acidjazz | lol |
| 03:08.43 | acidjazz | are they going to send out a signal that just shuts all n900s down |
| 03:09.02 | nomis | acidjazz: they have to, because it does not contain an x86 processor. |
| 03:09.09 | acidjazz | or maybe just turns them into new n950 buying devices |
| 03:09.10 | raster | no.... i am!!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHA |
| 03:13.03 | *** join/#maemo stevenhong (~xihong@124.240.125.27) |
| 03:13.34 | *** join/#maemo Sherif_Alaa (~sherif@41.233.139.98) |
| 03:13.45 | Sherif_Alaa | hii |
| 03:13.57 | DocScrutinizer | raster: btw cell technology seeing improvements every other week. It's not such an unlikely thing to see batteries with higher capacity same formfactor |
| 03:13.59 | Sherif_Alaa | is tarek here |
| 03:14.00 | Funnyface | one more thing, what sort of options are there for using the N900 as a modem for hooking up to a PC? |
| 03:14.11 | Funnyface | without third party programs |
| 03:15.24 | DocScrutinizer | opion 1: use the pc mode coming by default |
| 03:15.28 | *** join/#maemo tonikitoo (~tonikitoo@201-75-18-158-ma.cpe.vivax.com.br) |
| 03:17.04 | DocScrutinizer | U seen the requester popping up when you plug the USB to PC? |
| 03:17.24 | DocScrutinizer | "mass storage" / "PC-suite Mode" |
| 03:17.24 | raster | ]do not the kind fo improvements u see in silicon (doubling capacity every year or 2) |
| 03:17.30 | Funnyface | nope, I haven't ordered mine yet :P |
| 03:17.32 | *** part/#maemo Sherif_Alaa (~sherif@41.233.139.98) |
| 03:17.43 | Funnyface | ooh, yes I have seen that on "regular phones" |
| 03:18.00 | raster | mass storage should be kiled for such devices |
| 03:18.02 | raster | killed |
| 03:18.04 | raster | stupid idea |
| 03:18.08 | *** join/#maemo lcukn900 (~user@cpc3-oldh7-0-0-cust590.manc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 03:18.08 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 03:18.12 | raster | should always be "usbnet" |
| 03:18.22 | raster | + samda/nfs |
| 03:18.35 | raster | (and ssh and ... (http. ftp, etc.) |
| 03:18.35 | DocScrutinizer | esp since it makes up for the need to have VFAT on 28GB of the mass storage :-( |
| 03:18.43 | *** join/#maemo JoeBrain (~JoeBrain@173-11-92-50-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 03:18.43 | raster | no good reason not to do this |
| 03:20.46 | DocScrutinizer | well, you could mkfs.ext3 on the /home/MyDocs, if only... (/me frowns) cam borks on non-VFAT fs - WTF?? |
| 03:21.39 | raster | stupidity |
| 03:21.49 | *** join/#maemo Termana_n810 (~Bradley@123-3-163-208.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 03:21.50 | DocScrutinizer | maximum stupidity |
| 03:22.21 | lcukn900 | is there a bug report for that? the apps shouldnt know nor care? |
| 03:22.49 | Funnyface | btw, wifi access point could be great for places where you have poor signal strength to the mobile network :P |
| 03:22.57 | raster | bug report should be "you used fat... thats just silly!" |
| 03:23.05 | Funnyface | so you can put the phone in a good spot without needing a long cable :> |
| 03:23.19 | lcukn900 | well can see the point of fat |
| 03:23.28 | raster | i cant |
| 03:23.41 | lcukn900 | windows and peoples expectations |
| 03:23.41 | *** join/#maemo Wild_Doogy (~ben@vtelinet-66-220-237-209.vermontel.net) |
| 03:24.03 | raster | lcukn900: as aboive. dont do mass storage. you have a non-dumb device with a non-dumb host |
| 03:24.09 | raster | even if host is windows |
| 03:24.20 | raster | use usbnet + cifs (sambda) network file sharing |
| 03:24.31 | raster | or nfs for mac/linux guys if they like (no harm in offering both) |
| 03:24.43 | nomis | a file based usb storage class is something that needs to be invented. |
| 03:24.56 | raster | nomis: microsoft did already |
| 03:25.07 | lcukn900 | the n900 acts pretty much like 99pc of cams and phones and devices |
| 03:25.08 | raster | err what was it called? |
| 03:25.13 | nomis | raster: there is PTP, but it is very much tailored to specific file types. |
| 03:25.14 | raster | mpd? |
| 03:25.16 | raster | something |
| 03:25.26 | raster | mtp |
| 03:25.27 | raster | that was it |
| 03:25.55 | raster | lcukn900: if 99% of sheep jump off a cliff - then it must be a good idea to do the same. right? |
| 03:26.05 | DocScrutinizer | raster: know the best of the whole joke? VFAT needs to umount for mass storage XP |
| 03:26.21 | nomis | ah right. Slightly extended PTP. But why tf did they focus on media files? |
| 03:26.22 | raster | do yes. makes sense ar eu are dealing with a device on the block level |
| 03:26.35 | lcukn900 | when we are talking billions of devices - momentum is huge, so most likely yeah |
| 03:26.38 | raster | 2 machines working on the same set of blocks with an fs on top is going to screw it up completely |
| 03:26.47 | raster | using the nfs method will remove that need |
| 03:26.49 | raster | :) |
| 03:27.00 | raster | lcukn900: there is no NEED to do it that way |
| 03:27.22 | raster | lcukn900: you plug in and your phone for 99% of the world will appear as a file share on your network |
| 03:27.30 | raster | that includes windows, mac and linux users |
| 03:27.38 | raster | and it will work just as well as mass storage |
| 03:27.46 | raster | actually better as there is no unmounting needed |
| 03:27.55 | raster | thus the dev ie should be able to appear more quickly |
| 03:28.07 | raster | and both phone and pc can access the files., modify etc. at the same time |
| 03:28.22 | DocScrutinizer | raster: (block) what I say |
| 03:28.42 | lcukn900 | when we are talking billions of devices - momentum is huge, so most likely yeah |
| 03:28.54 | lcukn900 | keep with the old and the new |
| 03:29.02 | lcukn900 | fuck |
| 03:29.05 | raster | lcukn900: it doesnt mattere about billions of devices, momentum.. its WRONG |
| 03:29.08 | lcukn900 | up arrow on n900 |
| 03:29.23 | lcukn900 | i typed something conpletely different |
| 03:29.33 | raster | there is another way that is just as convenient, useful, compatible etc. AND has none of the associated vfat/mass stroage/mount/unmount pr5oblems etc. |
| 03:30.07 | raster | if your devivce is DUMB |
| 03:30.09 | lcukn900 | i would like to see a fat wrapper that allowed current style access but using whatever fs is actually on use |
| 03:30.14 | raster | its some 8bit microcontroller PIC |
| 03:30.28 | raster | or some tiny rtos - ro just a thumbdrive etc. |
| 03:30.37 | raster | it cant manage a whole tcp stack. network file sharing etc. |
| 03:30.46 | raster | when its a phone that runs linux on it.. it can - trivially. |
| 03:31.07 | raster | dont bother |
| 03:31.09 | raster | pontless |
| 03:31.14 | raster | 1. very complex |
| 03:31.42 | nomis | lcukn900: I actually implemented a virtual FAT32 filesystem on an avr32 based platform. |
| 03:31.55 | raster | 2. problematic and will have so many bugs that u will see files corrupted/lost and the fs otherwise mangled if u try and emulate a block device with a fat fs and back that with a real fs etc. |
| 03:31.58 | raster | totally pointless |
| 03:32.16 | lcukn900 | nomis really? was it practical? |
| 03:32.22 | raster | when u already have a solution - right there. samba and network file shares |
| 03:32.25 | nomis | lcukn900: it works neatly. The problem starts, when file data changes - there is no way to notify the usb host that it should discard cached data. |
| 03:32.42 | raster | nomis: let the problems begin :) |
| 03:32.51 | lcukn900 | isnt that the same with fat |
| 03:33.02 | raster | no |
| 03:33.03 | DocScrutinizer | sftp for linux, ftw. forget nfs |
| 03:33.06 | raster | because fat assumes a block device |
| 03:33.17 | DocScrutinizer | aka FUSE |
| 03:33.20 | raster | and a block device doesnt change conent unless the user of that device - the os with the fat fs, changes it |
| 03:33.22 | nomis | lcukn900: well, that is why the FAT gets unmounted on the n900 when entering mass storage mode. |
| 03:33.24 | raster | so consistency works |
| 03:33.34 | DocScrutinizer | err sshfs/FUSE |
| 03:33.49 | raster | DocScrutinizer: why forget nfs? its there. knfsd - cheap and works on every linux.. and mac box |
| 03:34.02 | raster | u can do sshfs if u want as well |
| 03:34.05 | DocScrutinizer | nfs has issues |
| 03:34.08 | raster | but nfs is low overhead |
| 03:34.11 | DocScrutinizer | stale locks etc |
| 03:34.14 | raster | minimal effort and workd |
| 03:34.19 | lcukn900 | nomis assume that there was the same limitation |
| 03:34.37 | raster | DocScrutinizer: dont allow locking. i disable it on mounting |
| 03:34.55 | lcukn900 | but a way to put fat face on for who needs it and also to allow raster his net based stack |
| 03:35.02 | raster | mount -t nfs -o noac,actimeo=10,intr,timeo=5,retry=1,nolock |
| 03:35.04 | raster | ... |
| 03:35.20 | raster | lcukn900: you dont NEED fat once u have the network fs |
| 03:35.39 | raster | lcukn900: every windows box that can do usb sotrage can do network fs |
| 03:35.50 | lcukn900 | raster yes, when i plug my camera i |
| 03:35.51 | nomis | lcukn900: you have to ensure that the filesystem content does not change, then you can export it into a virtual (readonly) fat. |
| 03:35.51 | raster | KEEPINg mass storage keeps problems |
| 03:36.14 | lcukn900 | only for those that dongt use it |
| 03:36.16 | DocScrutinizer | raster: we *have*. And like I said: we could do mkfs.ext3, if only... (*vomit*) |
| 03:36.16 | raster | lcukn900: i am not saying to change your desktop. i am saying to change the DEVICe |
| 03:36.19 | raster | your n900 |
| 03:36.31 | lcukn900 | to change to net alone involves changing all devices |
| 03:36.42 | raster | lcukn900: no it doesnt! |
| 03:36.46 | raster | aaaaaaagh! |
| 03:36.48 | raster | it does NOT |
| 03:36.52 | raster | not not not not not |
| 03:37.00 | raster | you change the n900 (for example) |
| 03:37.07 | raster | as its smart enough to run a network filesystem |
| 03:37.21 | raster | the hosts it plugs into - as its a usb gadget, udnerstand this protocol already |
| 03:37.31 | raster | they are already set up and ready to go to use it |
| 03:37.41 | raster | in fact ready enough were u just get an icon in your file shares |
| 03:37.50 | raster | you dont have to change any other device anywhere on the planet |
| 03:37.57 | lcukn900 | what other devices use it |
| 03:37.57 | nomis | raster: except that a networked filesystem over USB is a huge usability problem for >90% of the users. |
| 03:38.39 | nomis | heck, even the usb network itself is. |
| 03:38.53 | raster | nomis: how? on windows, mac and linux your remote host will be brought up - if you solve the "configure the ip asddress" problem (run a dhcpd on the device that advertises an ip, but no gatewaye or dns) |
| 03:39.10 | raster | so it will come up - auto-configure ip |
| 03:39.13 | lcukn900 | and usb networking from n900 to any of my computers requires a wizards hat and a spell book |
| 03:39.16 | nomis | raster: tell that to my grandma. |
| 03:39.27 | raster | then u advertise a network file share - which on peoples boxes will show upas an available share |
| 03:39.39 | lcukn900 | they wont look there |
| 03:39.42 | Termana_n810 | lcukn900 - don't forget the dead chicken |
| 03:39.48 | nomis | raster: you don't need to explain the idea to *me* - I get it. |
| 03:39.56 | lcukn900 | all the software for win looks in drive letter |
| 03:40.07 | raster | well for n900 its even better |
| 03:40.10 | raster | u dont even have to plug it in |
| 03:40.11 | lcukn900 | that i know of |
| 03:40.18 | raster | its on your wifi |
| 03:40.26 | raster | irf you are even at home your n900 will appear as a share |
| 03:40.38 | nomis | raster: yeah, that would be the more straightforward way. |
| 03:40.46 | raster | lcukn900: network file shares are also driver letters |
| 03:40.52 | nomis | if you assume a working Wifi/Network infrastructure. |
| 03:40.59 | lcukn900 | raster i agree. a better way exists. but to ignore a backup standard is folly |
| 03:41.17 | raster | nomis: even without one. plug into host. host sees usb network device. a windows/mac/linux host will send a dhcp request |
| 03:41.45 | raster | dhcpd on the n900 hears it and configures up usb net device so its a local loop only - no gateway etc. etc. |
| 03:41.47 | raster | just ip addr |
| 03:42.04 | lcukn900 | allow both! i like network interface |
| 03:42.10 | lcukn900 | it would speed up ssh |
| 03:42.12 | raster | lcukn900: u cant do both |
| 03:42.16 | lcukn900 | for dev |
| 03:42.22 | raster | once u do mass storage the filesystem can only exist in 1 place |
| 03:42.26 | raster | eg on the pc mounted |
| 03:42.27 | *** join/#maemo plwan (~Hister@74.115.1.53) |
| 03:42.28 | raster | or on the device |
| 03:42.33 | raster | and the pc cant see the fs |
| 03:42.34 | lcukn900 | infact |
| 03:42.46 | nomis | raster: you know, there *is* this dialog that allows for selecting a USB client role. |
| 03:42.49 | lcukn900 | ismt this almist what we have |
| 03:42.55 | lcukn900 | pcmode/storage |
| 03:43.01 | lcukn900 | option on pluggin |
| 03:43.04 | raster | nomis: i'm saying that there isnt a point |
| 03:43.11 | lcukn900 | just without the cloak over fat |
| 03:43.20 | raster | right now u need it because the n900 DOESNT offer usbnet auto-configure and fileshareing |
| 03:43.28 | lcukn900 | my battery is dying |
| 03:43.28 | ali1234 | the problem is that "pc mode" lacks automatic filesharing capability, nothing more |
| 03:43.32 | raster | its all already out there - it's just unused |
| 03:43.41 | ali1234 | the irony is that mass storage mode only exists for windows users |
| 03:43.52 | ali1234 | and that automatic filesharing would be easier for everyone |
| 03:44.02 | ali1234 | and that windows is claimed to be "easy for grandma" |
| 03:44.03 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@a88-115-30-175.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 03:44.03 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (~pcfe@redhat/pcfe) |
| 03:44.13 | ali1234 | when it is actually the worst and hardest to use :) |
| 03:44.31 | DocScrutinizer | apt-get install samba |
| 03:44.38 | raster | ali1234: correct. if pc mode had auto file shareing u wouldnt need mass storage (except for rare situations where u can manually ask for it as opposed to have to ask for it every time u are plugged in) |
| 03:44.39 | nomis | ali1234: how do you transfer files via USB when in PC suite mode? |
| 03:44.54 | ali1234 | nomis: you don't, because nokia didn't bother to implement it |
| 03:45.04 | lcukn900 | gnite \o |
| 03:45.17 | nomis | ali1234: ok, I misunderstood you then. |
| 03:45.24 | raster | *IF* nokia shipped with samba AND had it configurted to "asdvbertise file share on usb0 network always without permissions.restrictions" |
| 03:45.25 | ali1234 | nomis: or oyu use pc suite if you enjoy the pain |
| 03:45.27 | raster | err advertise |
| 03:45.32 | DocScrutinizer | astnah I can't as I want to get rid of that bloody VFAT then |
| 03:45.39 | DocScrutinizer | raster: ^^ |
| 03:45.52 | raster | do install samba? |
| 03:45.57 | raster | DocScrutinizer: install samba? |
| 03:46.09 | DocScrutinizer | offer mass storage |
| 03:46.14 | luke-jr | sigh |
| 03:46.30 | raster | DocScrutinizer: u mean u cant get rif of it because u need vfat because of camera? |
| 03:46.34 | luke-jr | it should just emulate a USB hub with both mass storage AND networking... |
| 03:46.40 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 03:46.40 | Termana_n810 | luke-jr - is it ok to PM you? |
| 03:46.42 | raster | luke-jr: u cant. |
| 03:46.48 | luke-jr | Termana_n810: yeah, but I might not see it :P |
| 03:46.52 | luke-jr | raster: u can. :p |
| 03:46.54 | raster | DocScrutinizer: thats another issue - bug in camera stuff |
| 03:47.01 | nomis | luke-jr: no need for a hub. You can implement multiple classes within a device. The PC suite mode does this. |
| 03:47.11 | luke-jr | nomis: but does Windows support it sanely? |
| 03:47.16 | raster | luke-jr: u cant. u cant BOTH mount a mass storage device AND offer it via file sharing over a network |
| 03:47.23 | raster | its a file system and cn be mounted 1 place only |
| 03:47.26 | ali1234 | actually you can do mass storage and networking at the same time but the problem is that you can't have the partition mounted while it is in user for mass storage |
| 03:47.27 | DocScrutinizer | raster: if that bug weren't there I'd not have any VFAT to mass-storage-share |
| 03:47.31 | luke-jr | raster: I didn't say to offer it over network |
| 03:47.37 | nomis | luke-jr: well, it has to. Otherwise the pc suite mode would not work on windows :) |
| 03:47.38 | ali1234 | also mass storage does not preclude the use of other filesystems |
| 03:47.40 | raster | u can try and add fat emulation layers on top of a real host os - u will have lots of troubles |
| 03:47.42 | ali1234 | it's windows that does that |
| 03:47.45 | luke-jr | raster: I said to offer it as mass storage, AND also provide network connectivity |
| 03:48.25 | raster | luke-jr: u can do both of those - sure. i'm not talking that. i'm talking the need to have to have a choice at all and to only provide network mode and over a network u can do everything you need - and do it seamlessly too |
| 03:48.44 | nomis | heads for the bed. Night all. |
| 03:48.50 | ali1234 | bluetooth already has this sealed up anyway |
| 03:48.51 | Wild_Doogy | night |
| 03:49.00 | ali1234 | you can use obex-ftp at the same time as any other service |
| 03:49.01 | raster | ali1234: DocScrutinizer is talking about the camera app on the n900 breaking if fs is not fat |
| 03:49.06 | raster | nothing to do with windows there |
| 03:49.11 | ali1234 | yeah, that's another reason |
| 03:49.31 | *** part/#maemo Wild_Doogy (~ben@vtelinet-66-220-237-209.vermontel.net) |
| 03:49.58 | raster | i'm talking more about nuking the entire mass storage thing |
| 03:50.08 | raster | and that removes the need for fat on the system as a result |
| 03:50.17 | raster | and that lets you then choose whatever fs you like |
| 03:50.48 | raster | and then the fs would likely not be fat (ext3 or something else) and then camera app likely would not break as it would not be assuming fat anymore but a real proper host fs |
| 03:50.56 | luke-jr | raster: better fat than ext3 |
| 03:51.09 | raster | and just saying that network can do all the same functions as usb storage - almost as nicely for most os's |
| 03:51.26 | luke-jr | raster: Windows requires drivers for networking, I hear |
| 03:51.32 | raster | instead of stroage icon on desktop - u look in file chares instead |
| 03:51.33 | raster | thats it |
| 03:51.39 | *** join/#maemo iscribe (~ce_25jakp@95.66.34.220) |
| 03:51.50 | ali1234 | if anything you should blame the usb org for not implementing a file transfer profile :) |
| 03:51.55 | raster | luke-jr: you can have a fat-on-loopback file |
| 03:52.06 | luke-jr | raster: why? |
| 03:52.08 | raster | expose that via usbstorage fir first time connect to windows and have an autorun.exe to install whatever u need |
| 03:52.16 | luke-jr | raster: my point is that ext3 on SD is a BAD BAD BAD idea :p |
| 03:52.28 | *** join/#maemo nerfhrder (~SuDzIe@95.66.40.198) |
| 03:52.31 | ali1234 | it is not worse than fat |
| 03:52.37 | luke-jr | raster: if I'm on Windows, I don't have rights to install anything |
| 03:52.44 | luke-jr | ali1234: on SD it is |
| 03:52.46 | raster | luke-jr: has worked like a charm for me for years and years |
| 03:52.51 | DocScrutinizer | raster: heh U r stealing my ideas ;-D |
| 03:52.54 | ali1234 | bah, i'm not going to argue |
| 03:53.03 | raster | maybe you just have crappy sd cards :) |
| 03:53.11 | *** join/#maemo kimitake (~kimitake@netblock-68-183-238-77.dslextreme.com) |
| 03:53.21 | luke-jr | raster: it's not a bug in the SD cards; it's assumptions ext3 makes that just don't hold true on SD |
| 03:53.27 | raster | DocScrutinizer: nokia already do it - they have an autorun.exe in the fat exposed over mass storage :) |
| 03:53.36 | luke-jr | mainly, ext3 assumes the block device writes things in order |
| 03:53.38 | raster | luke-jr: ... |
| 03:53.40 | DocScrutinizer | aah yes |
| 03:53.42 | raster | http://members.iinet.net.au/~haste/e17/WFM.png |
| 03:53.43 | luke-jr | SD cards don't necessarily do that |
| 03:54.05 | luke-jr | so better to use ext2 or even fat |
| 03:54.40 | DocScrutinizer | raster: I thought of 3G usb sticks, which play mass storage to install drivers, then driver ejects and stick remounts (here as a modem) |
| 03:54.52 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi) |
| 03:55.01 | raster | DocScrutinizer: good trick - for the windows world :) |
| 03:55.53 | DocScrutinizer | raster: yup. Though they actually have driver for xandros as well there (the one I got with EeePC in TPE) |
| 03:55.58 | ali1234 | yeah, another irony of windows. those 3g sticks use standard CDC-ACM profile, so do not technically need drivers |
| 03:56.05 | *** join/#maemo tonikitoo (~tonikitoo@201-75-18-158-ma.cpe.vivax.com.br) |
| 03:56.24 | raster | luke-jr: in reality u probably want something more like nilfs2 - but in my experience ext3 does perfectly fine - it's never screwed up on me. ext2 works too - tho with unclean mounting without fscks being.. rather bad |
| 03:56.29 | raster | or doing the fsdk's being bad |
| 03:56.51 | luke-jr | raster: better than ext3 getting corrupt and you never finding out :p |
| 03:57.02 | DocScrutinizer | ali1234: yep |
| 03:57.02 | luke-jr | "it's clean!" |
| 03:57.06 | raster | luke-jr: never has happened to me. |
| 03:57.35 | luke-jr | raster: as far as you know |
| 03:57.45 | luke-jr | raster: not to mention the high wear in the journal block |
| 03:58.07 | raster | luke-jr: that does need to be fixed - that is true |
| 03:58.21 | raster | thus why u mentioned nilfs2 |
| 03:58.41 | DocScrutinizer | bah |
| 03:58.53 | DocScrutinizer | gives a shit bout wear |
| 04:00.33 | DocScrutinizer | somebody put it this way: "does it really matter when lifetime of the flash storage is reduced from 100 years to 10 years?" |
| 04:01.14 | *** join/#maemo dockane_ (~dockane@g227197060.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 04:01.28 | raster | hehehehe |
| 04:01.40 | raster | with 1k write cycles |
| 04:01.46 | raster | or 10k even - it mattered |
| 04:01.51 | raster | with now 100k+ cycles..p its mattering less |
| 04:02.06 | DocScrutinizer | ack |
| 04:02.20 | ShadowJK | nilfs2 has been chewing my usb key for a few weeks |
| 04:02.26 | *** join/#maemo tank-man (1000@S010600121729c6a1.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 04:02.27 | DocScrutinizer | and even when a block wears out, so what? |
| 04:02.42 | DocScrutinizer | that thing got spare blocks |
| 04:02.47 | raster | ShadowJK: chewing? |
| 04:02.49 | ShadowJK | two weeks actually... averaging 700k/s write |
| 04:03.03 | ShadowJK | raster, the volume is at 85% full, the GC is having a fun time |
| 04:03.09 | raster | oooh |
| 04:03.15 | raster | i've never tried nilfs2 |
| 04:03.18 | raster | but it looks godo on paper |
| 04:03.20 | raster | :) |
| 04:03.41 | ShadowJK | 840 gigabytes written to a 4gig flash device :-) |
| 04:03.43 | ShadowJK | when does it fail? |
| 04:04.10 | ShadowJK | forgets how many cycles mlc is supposed to d |
| 04:04.11 | ShadowJK | o |
| 04:04.14 | DocScrutinizer | elects godo for geek word of March :-D |
| 04:04.31 | raster | sho these days 100k is standard |
| 04:04.43 | raster | ShadowJK: these days 100k cycles is pretty standard |
| 04:05.28 | DocScrutinizer | *without* any wear leveling |
| 04:05.34 | ShadowJK | blinks |
| 04:06.13 | ShadowJK | so at this rate my drive will fail in 18 years? |
| 04:06.24 | Termana_n810 | Your mum doesn't do wear leveling |
| 04:06.29 | DocScrutinizer | german computer mag c't did a test pretty some years ago. They tortured the sticks for months and couldn't wear a single block |
| 04:07.00 | ShadowJK | I actually have an SD card that I wrote 1 gigabyte per day to that failed silently |
| 04:07.28 | ShadowJK | silently in the sense that it started to return corrupt data for about 8 sectors (SD-sized sectors) per gigabyte |
| 04:07.33 | ali1234 | they got it up to 100k using ECC |
| 04:07.34 | ShadowJK | constantly moving around :) |
| 04:08.00 | ali1234 | so your flash drives probably have errors all over them, but they are correctable |
| 04:08.00 | Termana_n810 | ShadowJK - how long did it take to die? |
| 04:08.15 | ShadowJK | 2 years or so? |
| 04:08.24 | ali1234 | they probably had unwritable bits when you bought them :) |
| 04:08.30 | ShadowJK | It was my mp3 card, new songs each day |
| 04:08.54 | ShadowJK | one day some files had garbled sections :) |
| 04:09.05 | raster | ShadowJK: 18 years.. if u continually write to it for 18 years... ? :) |
| 04:09.15 | Termana_n810 | hmm, thats not so bad, considering it being just an SD card |
| 04:09.21 | ShadowJK | raster, 18 years at current nilfs-abuse pace I gather |
| 04:09.23 | *** join/#maemo thomaz (~thomaz@24-217-49-1.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) |
| 04:09.42 | ShadowJK | Termana_n810, oh, it might not have been the flash itself that failed, it worked fine if I used a slow-ass cardreader to write to it |
| 04:09.45 | raster | ShadowJK: i'd say thats in the "i dont give a shit" land :) |
| 04:09.59 | ShadowJK | raster, indeed |
| 04:10.15 | DocScrutinizer | let me put it this way: SSDs for servers get 5 years waranty |
| 04:10.49 | ShadowJK | Transcend's SD cards have "lifetime" warranty ;p |
| 04:10.51 | DocScrutinizer | I guess they know what they may offer |
| 04:11.04 | ShadowJK | actually the card that silently corrupts is transcend |
| 04:11.15 | raster | ShadowJK: did u ask for a new card? |
| 04:11.27 | ShadowJK | raster, thrown away the receipt long ago.. |
| 04:11.39 | DocScrutinizer | that's the point :-P |
| 04:11.41 | ShadowJK | plus, 1 gig card today costs... well you can't get them, but 2 gig costs like 5 euro? |
| 04:12.00 | cehteh | lifetime of you or the card? |
| 04:12.13 | ShadowJK | cehteh, I don't know, so I'll just assume the universe |
| 04:12.22 | raster | ShadowJK: bugger . it's nice to take up such lifetime offers... they seem so good when given.. i think they count on peole doign what u do - throwing away recipts/forgetting etc. |
| 04:12.23 | luke-jr | "we guarantee it will work until it fails!" |
| 04:12.43 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: of the card is nonsense :-) |
| 04:13.16 | cehteh | well i think thats what they want |
| 04:13.33 | ShadowJK | luke-jr, you forget the standard guarantee language: "We guarantee the product shall be free of manufacting defects and workmanship defects", or something like that |
| 04:13.56 | luke-jr | really? |
| 04:14.08 | luke-jr | when was the last time anything technological was free of manuf defects? |
| 04:14.18 | raster | has anyone packaged up lua for maemo? |
| 04:14.22 | ShadowJK | it dosn't include design defects |
| 04:14.35 | luke-jr | no, I mean manuf defects... |
| 04:14.44 | luke-jr | NAND tends to be expected to have bad blocks from the start... |
| 04:14.59 | ShadowJK | I guess if they're not marked as bad |
| 04:15.19 | luke-jr | dead pixels aren't very rare |
| 04:15.20 | luke-jr | etc |
| 04:15.29 | ShadowJK | "Nokia warrants to you that during the warranty period Nokia or a Nokia authorized service company will in a commercially reasonable time remedy defects in materials, design and workmanship" |
| 04:15.35 | ShadowJK | that's what nokia's europe warranty says |
| 04:17.20 | DocScrutinizer | there's a chip manuf defined limit of defect blocks allowable for a considered good NAND |
| 04:17.45 | ShadowJK | there's a standard for the defect pixels thing too |
| 04:17.54 | DocScrutinizer | they also guarantee certain blocks being ok |
| 04:18.02 | luke-jr | ShadowJK: that's a dumb one :P |
| 04:18.22 | ShadowJK | Although the nokia service manual has a one-row table listing the allowed number of defect pixels as 0.. |
| 04:19.50 | luke-jr | :D |
| 04:20.30 | Termana_n810 | People want us to invent a time machine - how can they expect that when we can't make error-free NAND. |
| 04:20.43 | ShadowJK | or error-free chips |
| 04:20.45 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: that's for QA for factory and repair. I guess that's not what they guarantee to customer |
| 04:20.59 | Termana_n810 | Besides which is more important. ERROR-FREE NAND OF COURSE |
| 04:21.09 | ShadowJK | I don't even know what they guarantee the customer |
| 04:21.21 | ShadowJK | seems each service point have their different rules |
| 04:22.00 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@gprs-internet-ff49f000-52.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 04:22.18 | cehteh | i'd prefer ecc over error-freeness anyways |
| 04:22.20 | ShadowJK | my sheevaplug's .5gig nand seems to have 4 bad blocks |
| 04:22.49 | DocScrutinizer | 5 G nand ? o.O |
| 04:22.58 | ShadowJK | point five |
| 04:23.00 | DocScrutinizer | 4 + 1? |
| 04:23.07 | ShadowJK | 0.5 |
| 04:23.08 | DocScrutinizer | aaaah |
| 04:23.08 | cehteh | but these controlers firmwares always seem a bit rushed out |
| 04:23.10 | ShadowJK | 512 meg |
| 04:24.56 | ShadowJK | isn't even using the nand at all |
| 04:25.05 | luke-jr | me either |
| 04:25.25 | DocScrutinizer | Alfa Romeo Meeto X-P |
| 04:29.59 | *** join/#maemo openstandards (~openstand@78.143.215.162) |
| 04:34.35 | *** join/#maemo adalal (~aritra@cpc4-clif8-2-0-cust778.know.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 04:34.58 | *** join/#maemo Acedip (~ani@fedora/Acedip) |
| 04:51.22 | *** join/#maemo UAE (~AnA_QaWeY@95.66.32.248) |
| 04:52.29 | DocScrutinizer | sshfs is awesome |
| 05:02.41 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~pupnik@p54B2CCC4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 05:10.44 | openstandards | has any one got a guide to setting up openvpn on the n900 |
| 05:11.00 | raster | finaaaaaly |
| 05:11.06 | raster | man i havd to fuck with this maemosdk |
| 05:11.13 | raster | its definitely not set up well |
| 05:11.26 | lucent | I've set up openvpn and it left me dumbfounded, can't help you even though I want to |
| 05:12.06 | openstandards | lucent, hard was it? |
| 05:12.21 | lucent | it was tedious |
| 05:13.27 | lucent | I wanted to interact with a security concept (iptables, openvpn) from a non-security point of view (GUI configuration, multi-platform deployment, computer illiterate users) |
| 05:13.47 | lucent | that is never simple or easy in my experience to date. |
| 05:13.52 | *** join/#maemo githogori_ (~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 05:14.40 | lucent | openstandards: openvpn client is not very bad |
| 05:14.48 | openstandards | lucent, theres a mod for smoothwall that does work with iptables and openvpn |
| 05:15.46 | lucent | yeah I did use smoothwall but the openvpn integration (I tried this years ago) was like a mess of spaghetti shell scripts |
| 05:15.59 | *** join/#maemo Termana_n810 (~Bradley@123-3-172-183.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 05:16.03 | lucent | not saying anything about it now because I just don't know |
| 05:16.37 | openstandards | yeah thats what i'm looking to do, log into my network via that smoothwall mod |
| 05:16.51 | lucent | openstandards: for most networking endeavors on N900 you will need "Dummy" network selection installed, it must be located from Nokia website with a unique download key... did you get that already? |
| 05:17.05 | openstandards | lucent, no |
| 05:17.15 | openstandards | whats that |
| 05:17.15 | lucent | okay that much I can direct you to, let me find the linkage |
| 05:17.20 | openstandards | thanks |
| 05:19.08 | lucent | discussion here -> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=41604 |
| 05:19.16 | lucent | still looking for a more direct linkage |
| 05:20.03 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi) |
| 05:21.27 | lucent | openstandards: name of the file I'm searching for is libicd-network-dummy_0.12+0m5_armel.deb |
| 05:23.44 | lucent | openstandards: found it! http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula/index.php |
| 05:24.44 | lucent | openstandards: that link generates the key that you'll need |
| 05:24.58 | lucent | follow directions at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=454840 to install the actual deb |
| 05:25.29 | openstandards | thanks |
| 05:28.24 | *** join/#maemo mmgcs (~michael@pool-98-119-91-254.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 05:28.57 | mmgcs | does the maemo 5 sdk support emulator support connecting to exchange 2007? |
| 05:34.17 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (~jr@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 05:34.40 | *** join/#maemo Docscrutemp (~Joerg_rw@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 05:47.03 | *** join/#maemo dirtyrice88 (~dirtyrice@32.135.141.242) |
| 05:47.12 | *** join/#maemo bleeter (~bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 05:48.34 | mmgcs | does the maemo 5 sdk emulator support connecting to exchange 2007? |
| 05:49.27 | *** join/#maemo EspadaV8_L (~espadav8@unaffiliated/espadav8) |
| 05:51.18 | cehteh | mmgcs: it supports networking, but a lot apps dont work |
| 05:51.36 | mmgcs | i only see pop3/imap options in the emulator |
| 05:51.39 | cehteh | less in armel target .. its only meant for crosscompiling |
| 05:52.13 | cehteh | prolly the exchange conectivity programs are not part of the sdk |
| 05:52.51 | mmgcs | bummer, i'd like to make sure my provider, which is exchange 2007, works before shelling out 500 for an unlocked phone |
| 05:54.13 | cehteh | heh the emulator is not like the exact hardware |
| 05:54.41 | cehteh | even if it works on the emulator that wont tell anything about the actual n900 and vice versa |
| 05:55.03 | mmgcs | i understand that, just hoping for a basic test |
| 05:55.13 | cehteh | it has some exchange tools .. but well i dont use exchange |
| 05:55.28 | raster | ugh - exchange |
| 05:55.29 | cehteh | try to get someone with a real device to test it for you |
| 05:55.32 | raster | recipe for pain |
| 05:55.33 | raster | :) |
| 05:55.39 | mmgcs | hehe |
| 05:55.57 | cehteh | well imap isnt well supported on n900 either :( |
| 05:56.07 | mmgcs | wish i didn't have exchange hosted but i had some really strange things with google and i got gun shy |
| 05:56.11 | cehteh | at least the stock mail client sux |
| 05:56.25 | raster | thats perfectly possible |
| 05:56.29 | raster | most stock email clients suck |
| 05:56.29 | raster | :) |
| 05:56.39 | raster | someone has a :must do email" checkbox on their things to work on |
| 05:56.56 | raster | it doesnt include "make it not suck" in that checklist |
| 05:57.08 | raster | (invariably its simply time constraints) |
| 05:57.12 | cehteh | modest looks like its designed and programmed by upper management :) |
| 05:57.34 | cehteh | means they have a secretary which sorts their mail and only forwards whats important |
| 05:58.25 | mmgcs | when you start getting spam regarding specific stocks you invested in using schwab and you were using gmail it's time to get nervous - at least i did |
| 05:58.53 | mmgcs | so i pay for hosted email - the spam stopped |
| 06:00.04 | mmgcs | so... i want to develop on the n900 or similar device but i want to make sure i have mail, contacts, calendar before i shell out the money for an unlocked phone |
| 06:00.06 | cehteh | heh .. i guess its more how careful you about leaking your email to the public |
| 06:00.37 | cehteh | once left out spam starts |
| 06:00.56 | cehteh | an i wont trust a provider enough to filter spam out |
| 06:01.22 | cehteh | running 'popfile' here, quite liking it |
| 06:01.43 | mmgcs | i know, i'm in the process of moving to my own private email server but it takes time |
| 06:02.06 | cehteh | postfix & dovecot .. :) |
| 06:02.46 | cehteh | (and postgrey, to reduce at least the most trival spam attempts) |
| 06:02.57 | cehteh | thats my setup, works quite well |
| 06:03.04 | mmgcs | so what about calendar / contacts? |
| 06:03.25 | cehteh | dunno |
| 06:03.59 | cehteh | i dont use the n900 for that .. well starting to used contacts, just imported from my old sim card |
| 06:04.27 | cehteh | instead calendar i try to use emacs org-mode |
| 06:04.31 | mmgcs | well, the big 3 are critical to me, hence a quick decision to go exchange for now |
| 06:04.50 | cehteh | yes i cant help you much with this things |
| 06:05.05 | mmgcs | i travel enough to need something that isn't bound to a single box |
| 06:05.24 | cehteh | the building things are basically working (contacts and calendar) .. they could be better but its ok'ish |
| 06:06.04 | raster | i wish i could export my mh folders via imap... nicely... |
| 06:06.11 | raster | that'd be most loverly |
| 06:06.28 | mmgcs | i'm not a google fan and i've been in the C++ dev game for 15+ years so it's really appealing to me - i just want basic functionality before i dive in |
| 06:06.32 | cehteh | raster: maybe dovecot can do that? |
| 06:07.05 | cehteh | i was amazed how well it handles mboxes with indexing .. but finally switched to maildir |
| 06:07.27 | raster | cehteh: can it? i searched for a while - found nothing. |
| 06:07.45 | raster | i'd just dearly like my sylpheed mh dirs to be available to devices - like n900's etc. that do image... |
| 06:07.55 | raster | but stil lkeep all my email nicely in its mh tree that i rsync around |
| 06:08.13 | cehteh | how about doing that with maildir? |
| 06:08.23 | mmgcs | tech is strange... i work on software that gets deployed on satellites but i struggle with finding what i consider to be simple solutions... argh |
| 06:08.34 | raster | cehteh: mh is maildir - 1 file per mail. dirs for folders |
| 06:08.40 | cehteh | ah |
| 06:08.50 | cehteh | i thought thats slightly different |
| 06:08.58 | raster | sylpheeds adds its own .sylpheed-* cache files |
| 06:09.03 | cehteh | well then yes dovecot handles it out of the box |
| 06:09.04 | raster | so it can avoid scanning etc. |
| 06:09.17 | mmgcs | raster: do you work on geospatial solutions? |
| 06:09.51 | raster | mmgcs: ummmm no. |
| 06:10.04 | cehteh | dovecot makes its own .dovecot indexes or so (dunno exactly the names) |
| 06:10.11 | raster | cehteh: hmmm.. it does? |
| 06:10.22 | cehteh | lemme look |
| 06:10.23 | mmgcs | interesting, the name "raster" implies image analysis, gis, et cetera |
| 06:10.42 | raster | mmgcs: it implies image stuff.. thats about it :) |
| 06:11.12 | cehteh | /home/ct/Maildir# ls |
| 06:11.12 | cehteh | cur dovecot-uidlist dovecot.index dovecot.index.cache dovecot.index.log dovecot.index.log.2 new subscriptions tmp |
| 06:11.21 | mmgcs | so, multimedia is more you game? |
| 06:11.44 | raster | mmgcs: statistiucally theres much more "Raster" stuff in desktop gfx, art, games, hollywood than there is in geospatial solutions :) |
| 06:11.52 | raster | so rather odd that u asked that :) |
| 06:12.10 | cehteh | hehe |
| 06:12.28 | cehteh | how is the e state? |
| 06:12.29 | mmgcs | raster: depends on whether you're talking commercial or "intelligence community" |
| 06:12.53 | raster | for every 1 "intelligence community" theres probably 1000's orf commercial people |
| 06:12.55 | raster | as i said |
| 06:12.58 | raster | odd that u asked that :) |
| 06:13.10 | raster | cehteh: hmmm err good? :) |
| 06:13.19 | cehteh | i mean release soon? |
| 06:13.29 | mmgcs | depends on if you think you know what you know ;) |
| 06:14.03 | raster | cehteh: it will happen when it happens :) |
| 06:14.10 | mmgcs | regardless, it's all good :) |
| 06:14.51 | raster | mmgcs: i know what i know :) and i know that the commercial world is much bigger than the govt itelligence world by money and numbers... so.. as i said.. odd that u asked that :) |
| 06:14.53 | cehteh | of course .. just wondering, if there wont be so much progress, e17 would be a vaporware canditate :P |
| 06:15.22 | raster | cehteh: vaporware is software that is talked about but doesnt exist (cant be seen/used/ etc.) |
| 06:15.25 | raster | eq7 has never been that |
| 06:15.30 | mmgcs | ah, i'm not talking bigger, i'm talking science |
| 06:15.31 | cehteh | i lost a bit focus, started with e many years ago, but using ion now :) |
| 06:15.34 | luke-jr | raster: not just software... |
| 06:15.36 | raster | so by definition. it can never be vaporware as its source has been open since day 1 |
| 06:15.37 | raster | :) |
| 06:16.05 | luke-jr | Pandora = vapourware :) |
| 06:16.05 | raster | mmgcs: science is much smaller than the commercial world :) |
| 06:16.07 | cehteh | hence i say there is so much progress but no release |
| 06:16.08 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@2a01:e35:243c:9250:223:54ff:fe69:226e) |
| 06:16.19 | raster | luke-jr: true. in a broader sense of the meaning. |
| 06:16.23 | mmgcs | not a lot of games that can take hyperspectral imagery and figure out what's happening |
| 06:16.56 | mmgcs | regardless... |
| 06:17.02 | raster | cehteh: h we are busy on the libraries. e isnt released because basically its not being worked on. the libraries (efl) are. thats where 95% of all the work is going |
| 06:17.58 | raster | mmgcs: that doesnt much matter... as i said - io find it curious that your immediate leap was into a very small niche field as opposed to picking a more obvious larger-populated one |
| 06:17.59 | raster | :) |
| 06:18.30 | mmgcs | raster: well i guess that's because $$ is not an issue for me at this time |
| 06:19.05 | mmgcs | smaller numbers providing the right software to the appropriate niche is way more profitable than mass market |
| 06:19.20 | mmgcs | just my opinion and experience |
| 06:19.33 | *** join/#maemo rlp10 (~richard@client-81-98-90-14.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) |
| 06:19.41 | raster | mmgcs: issue as in you earn so much of it u just dont care? or you sit on a mountain of it? or that youa re more of an existential "it's all about the love and betterment of mankind dude" variety? :) |
| 06:20.11 | raster | ok - so it's "you're making a mint selling to a govt niche" :) |
| 06:20.12 | mmgcs | raster: excellent! |
| 06:20.12 | raster | fair enough |
| 06:20.24 | *** join/#maemo bigbrovar (~bigbrovar@83.229.6.19) |
| 06:20.33 | mmgcs | i'll fess up |
| 06:20.47 | raster | hey - good on ya if u are |
| 06:20.58 | raster | govts eat up enough of my money in taxes |
| 06:21.03 | raster | need to get them back somehow |
| 06:21.08 | raster | i have my own methods of doing that |
| 06:21.14 | cehteh | haha |
| 06:21.23 | mmgcs | i'm board with my iphone and blackberry and am have been programming c++ for 15 years and i'm bored |
| 06:21.28 | mmgcs | lol |
| 06:21.33 | mmgcs | typo |
| 06:21.35 | raster | mmgcs: fair enough |
| 06:21.48 | mmgcs | i have some ideas that i see as hobbies |
| 06:21.49 | raster | i just want a phone i can code for and re-use my work invested on code already |
| 06:21.55 | raster | that rules android and iphone out |
| 06:22.02 | raster | webos too |
| 06:22.09 | mmgcs | i tried webos |
| 06:22.21 | raster | n900 so far is a pretty shitty phone - but beter than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick |
| 06:22.30 | raster | i much prefer my prototype here on my desk |
| 06:22.30 | mmgcs | ugh |
| 06:22.31 | raster | :) |
| 06:22.36 | rlp10 | raster: lol |
| 06:23.00 | mmgcs | i had some palm pre delivered - broken keyboards, unable to activate, lock ups |
| 06:23.10 | mmgcs | frustrating |
| 06:23.35 | mmgcs | guess i'm backing myself into a corner |
| 06:23.41 | bigbrovar | anyone if the password manager package is compatible with keepass database? |
| 06:23.55 | mmgcs | work pays for an iphone, can't stand it |
| 06:24.01 | raster | mmgcs: hahahahaha |
| 06:24.04 | raster | i'm wioth u |
| 06:24.07 | raster | tho i never had an iphone |
| 06:24.09 | raster | bought one |
| 06:24.11 | raster | or owned one |
| 06:24.13 | raster | i refuse to |
| 06:24.18 | mmgcs | have a blackberry tour, slow and sluggish |
| 06:24.21 | raster | 1. i just tend to avoid doing what the sheep do |
| 06:24.30 | raster | 2. apple isnt developer friendly |
| 06:24.38 | mmgcs | tried palm, couldn't get a device delivered that worked |
| 06:24.53 | mmgcs | have a friend who made some cash on android game dev |
| 06:25.05 | raster | 3. my own software would violate the iphone dev rules anyway as it includes interpreters and ways of running logic - so i'm screwwed even if i accept all the other arsetastic restrictions |
| 06:25.27 | raster | android is the "rewrite it in our flavor of java and you're ok" |
| 06:25.42 | raster | hooray - and lets not have a jit while we're at it shall we>? |
| 06:25.45 | mmgcs | not doing android for me |
| 06:25.47 | raster | (have they added a jit now?) |
| 06:25.54 | mmgcs | lol |
| 06:26.01 | raster | screwed iof i'm rewrtigin in java (and their native sdk stuff is useless) |
| 06:26.07 | raster | as such i like linux |
| 06:26.08 | cehteh | my wife telephoned with a friend some time ago, that was like "We have a n900 now, just watched a movie on TV played back on its AVout" .. "Oh iphone cant do that?, well with only 4GB movies make no sense anyways" .... "Oh i am sorry to hear that you forgotten to cancel your contract" |
| 06:26.17 | raster | its comfy - its good. it works. so - my phone needs to be it too |
| 06:26.24 | rlp10 | Is there a maemo vm that I can demo using Maemo on my desktop? |
| 06:26.26 | mmgcs | me too, long time gentoo dabbler |
| 06:27.02 | raster | rlp10: no. not full vm. just sdk+scratchbox qemu+xephyr etc. |
| 06:27.10 | *** part/#maemo rohanpm (~rohan@kde/developer/rohanpm) |
| 06:27.30 | raster | mmgcs: well i'm happy. i get paid by samsung to work on e + their new products... |
| 06:27.31 | mmgcs | so, long story short, i guess there is no way i can test my exchange with the emulator |
| 06:27.33 | raster | so it's all good |
| 06:27.47 | cehteh | hehe nokia should setup a cluster of n900 and export then via vnc |
| 06:27.52 | mmgcs | raster: sounds like a good gig :) |
| 06:27.52 | raster | the os is becoming just what i want.. mostly because i kick people there whenever i find things i dont like |
| 06:28.03 | rlp10 | cehteh: that would be cool |
| 06:28.21 | rlp10 | raster: sorry to be dumb, but what's a scratchbox? |
| 06:28.42 | cehteh | environment for crosscompiling with less pain |
| 06:28.54 | mmgcs | a rectangular scrotum? kidding! |
| 06:29.07 | rlp10 | mmgcs: lol |
| 06:29.07 | cehteh | some scripts, chroots, qemu, gcc an stuff |
| 06:29.29 | rlp10 | cehteh: And then you can run under qemu? |
| 06:29.39 | cehteh | it starts qemu transparently |
| 06:30.12 | rlp10 | cehteh: And is the qemu just the app, or is it the whole maemo os? |
| 06:30.19 | cehteh | recently tried to put the sdk (armel) in a chroot on the device .. which failed because the crappy FAT fs cant handle symlinks |
| 06:30.24 | cehteh | time to reformat |
| 06:30.44 | raster | rlp10: what he said :) |
| 06:30.53 | cehteh | qemu is a emulator .. |
| 06:31.21 | cehteh | bit like vmware but real emulator so you can emulate ARM hardware on a x86 |
| 06:31.33 | cehteh | but lacks all the special stuff of the n900 of course |
| 06:31.50 | rlp10 | ok, thanks guys for your patience |
| 06:32.10 | rlp10 | I've dabbled in development, and am making decision whether or not to purchase a n900 |
| 06:32.39 | cehteh | hey .. if any of you guys is bored, how about stracing the camera app and write a LD_PRELOAD lib which overrides the FAT filesystem check? |
| 06:32.46 | luke-jr | (probably *not*) |
| 06:32.48 | luke-jr | runs |
| 06:35.04 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: sounds like fun |
| 06:35.23 | arachnist | cehteh: lol @ "my wife telephoned ..." ;) |
| 06:35.49 | rlp10 | Anyone hooked a n900 up to a projector? |
| 06:36.02 | DocScrutinizer | duh, why a projector? |
| 06:36.08 | *** join/#maemo DangerMaus (~eeeeeeeee@tuxhacker/loft306) |
| 06:36.10 | cehteh | with av out .. should work |
| 06:36.15 | arachnist | rlp10: i did, at work. |
| 06:36.19 | cehteh | but the quality is not that good |
| 06:36.36 | DocScrutinizer | I know. It's not even good on my 33' |
| 06:36.49 | lucent | rlp10: it's only composite |
| 06:37.10 | rlp10 | Ah, thanks for the feedback |
| 06:37.23 | cehteh | is the av out just always a clone of the screen or has it its own graphic sytem .. meaning would dualscreen be possible? :) |
| 06:37.26 | raster | DocScrutinizer: why they didnt include an hdmi breakout - i dont know |
| 06:37.32 | raster | perfectly possible |
| 06:37.40 | cehteh | raster: costs .. :) |
| 06:37.43 | lucent | raster: connector space would be a bit odd |
| 06:37.52 | DocScrutinizer | sshfs isn't that awesome - when your connection stalls :-( |
| 06:38.01 | raster | lucent: breakout - not an actual hdmi port... |
| 06:38.05 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: -o reconnect |
| 06:38.23 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: hmm, thanks |
| 06:38.25 | cehteh | but sshfs has a lot not so awesome things .. mostly fuse limitations |
| 06:39.02 | cehteh | still useable enough |
| 06:39.04 | DocScrutinizer | well, first of all even shell tab filename completion stalls the whole process |
| 06:39.07 | arachnist | DocScrutinizer: well, movies look quite well |
| 06:39.16 | lucent | bigbrovar: if you get keepassx, it works... I use keepassx on N900 from maemo-devel |
| 06:39.46 | DocScrutinizer | arachnist: depends on your expectations, I guess |
| 06:40.15 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi) |
| 06:40.25 | arachnist | DocScrutinizer: well, i haven't seen any other phone connected to a projector |
| 06:40.33 | DocScrutinizer | I'm one of the guys that hate DVB-T, due to the inferior abysmal quality |
| 06:40.36 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu_N800 (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 06:41.01 | lucent | arachnist: Apple stuff will show on external display |
| 06:41.11 | lucent | iPod, iPhone... |
| 06:41.12 | cehteh | DocScrutinizer: i am bit proud bout the vpn and xchat setup i have now ... lots of fiddleing .. but it works awesomely .. xchat parallel on n900 and laptop .. seamless switching between networks .. the default configs didnt do that |
| 06:41.15 | bigbrovar | lucent: naa am a chicken I still to only extra repo.. N900 is my only phone now (smart or dumb) I hope to it to the edge once I get the N97 mini which I then use as a smartphone |
| 06:41.53 | cehteh | btw where are you located will you be at CLT (Chemnizer LinuxTage)? |
| 06:41.57 | RST38h | yawns and asks what is going on |
| 06:41.59 | lucent | bigbrovar: I understand, let me tell you though that keepassx is *working* on N900. There is a problem, but it is only a visual issue, the height of text field widgets is too small for the font height |
| 06:42.01 | bigbrovar | cehteh: if only it can be more finger friendly.. xchat needs more freemantlization |
| 06:42.04 | arachnist | lucent: yes. but i haven't seen any phone actually connected to a projector. as in, being there, seeing it connected and not on the internet |
| 06:42.08 | *** join/#maemo Terje1 (~Terje@a91-152-105-94.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 06:42.22 | lucent | arachnist: oh. I beta tested the Microvision SHOWWX |
| 06:42.22 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: dunno |
| 06:42.24 | cehteh | bigbrovar: ack .. but nag someone else, i did my xchat job :) |
| 06:42.36 | lucent | it works with Apple iPod connector and projects full motion video |
| 06:42.54 | lucent | there's also an option for RCA style composite breakout |
| 06:42.59 | cehteh | next problem i have is the camera and fat ... |
| 06:43.03 | bigbrovar | cehteh: I am not naging just stating my experience :) |
| 06:43.17 | raster | shakes his head |
| 06:43.21 | cehteh | bigbrovar: i configured it reasonable useable for the n900 |
| 06:43.29 | raster | composite out is worse quality than the hvga screen.. |
| 06:43.34 | raster | why someone would use it.. beats me |
| 06:43.40 | raster | letalone wvga |
| 06:43.42 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 06:43.50 | raster | (composite compared to wvga) |
| 06:43.56 | bigbrovar | cehteh: am sure lots of people appreciate you for it. :) |
| 06:44.12 | raster | should have stuck in an hdmi framer ala beagleboard |
| 06:44.35 | lucent | raster: yes... and host USB |
| 06:44.44 | lucent | we can't have everything. |
| 06:44.55 | raster | yes you can damnit! |
| 06:44.56 | raster | :) |
| 06:45.00 | DocScrutinizer | raster: cvbs *could* be good quality |
| 06:45.03 | cehteh | raster: considering the use cases (watching your own movies by hacking the hotel TV) composite is the best (most compatible) solution |
| 06:45.05 | raster | presses the everything buttopn |
| 06:45.12 | cehteh | quality sux of course |
| 06:45.42 | raster | cehteh: more thinking that u can use your device as a pc replacement.. as long as u can find a usb hub for kbd+mouse to plug in and a screen with hdmi |
| 06:45.43 | raster | :) |
| 06:46.15 | cehteh | raster: someone did that already with bluetooth kb/mouse/tv ... |
| 06:46.21 | RST38h | cehteh: It looks like the image is contantly being copied to the TV display buffer about 4-5 times a second |
| 06:46.31 | RST38h | cehteh: Watching movies this way is kinda awkward |
| 06:46.33 | raster | cehteh: then all u need is proper display breakout :) |
| 06:46.54 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: ack |
| 06:47.00 | cehteh | RST38h: definately not .. we watched movies on it .. that wroks |
| 06:47.11 | cehteh | raster: displayport? |
| 06:47.30 | raster | cehteh: that'd do too.. tho too "unsupported" atm |
| 06:47.35 | RST38h | oh it works but I would not watc a movie with it |
| 06:47.39 | raster | too new |
| 06:47.44 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 06:47.51 | cehteh | RST38h: i mean with reasonable framerate |
| 06:48.10 | cehteh | little stutter .. but not 4-5 fps |
| 06:48.28 | DocScrutinizer | raster: thre are cheap adapters |
| 06:48.40 | RST38h | look at moving ibjects, cars, trains |
| 06:48.45 | *** join/#maemo lmoura (~lauromour@200.184.118.130) |
| 06:48.46 | cehteh | anyways .. phones with building projectors will come .. |
| 06:48.48 | raster | DocScrutinizer: ure.. tho u end up with adaptors all over i guess |
| 06:48.52 | RST38h | you will see that they move in little steps |
| 06:49.19 | raster | somethng that would break out hdmi (dvi - or whatever some digitial video signal) and do it with a minimal plug/connector |
| 06:49.46 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: and as movies are about movement, I'd rather not watch *any* video on N900 probably |
| 06:50.07 | RST38h | yes, I am afraid it is pretty nasty :( |
| 06:50.19 | RST38h | static images work ok though |
| 06:50.25 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 06:50.28 | raster | hmm why not |
| 06:50.31 | RST38h | gaming is even worse than video |
| 06:50.36 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu_N800 (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 06:50.36 | RST38h | too much lag |
| 06:50.37 | DocScrutinizer | except for red bleeding |
| 06:50.40 | raster | a dvd-quality movie shoul dbe able to be plaid back with no problems |
| 06:50.51 | raster | played |
| 06:50.53 | RST38h | DocScrut: I see no red bleeding here, got an LCD panel |
| 06:51.10 | thresh | waves |
| 06:51.14 | RST38h | raster: See above about image being contantly copied to a separate TV screen buffer |
| 06:51.15 | cehteh | needs better encoding options for recoding to the n900 .. tablet encode didnt do well |
| 06:51.16 | RST38h | moo, thresh |
| 06:51.30 | cehteh | RST38h: i think its not like that |
| 06:51.34 | RST38h | cehteh: Why do you need to recode for n900? Works fine without recoding |
| 06:51.48 | cehteh | RST38h: depends on the input |
| 06:51.58 | cehteh | not dvd i mean .. others |
| 06:52.08 | *** join/#maemo Termana_n810 (~Bradley@123-3-181-137.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 06:52.30 | raster | hmm who sets $PATH...rt oof i mean on the screen of the n900 itself |
| 06:52.35 | raster | copying to a tv out buffer is just silly |
| 06:52.42 | raster | that shouldnt need to be done |
| 06:52.56 | raster | i suspect someone took the lazy way out |
| 06:52.58 | RST38h | thresh: Any idea what is with all these people requested authorization to see your ICQ status? |
| 06:53.15 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: LCD here as well (33' TV) - but I guess it depends a lot on the actual analog input circuit (impedance etc) |
| 06:53.17 | RST38h | thresh: Seem to be real humans, never message |
| 06:54.05 | thresh | RST38h: uhm, icq.com/%N is not working, so probably their stupid clients are trying to authorize? |
| 06:54.18 | thresh | IIRC my kopete also failed miserably to add a user a couple of days ago |
| 06:54.27 | RST38h | thresh: Ah, that's what it is... |
| 06:55.31 | raster | EEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWww |
| 06:55.34 | raster | horribly slow |
| 06:55.37 | raster | ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww |
| 06:55.49 | RST38h | do we need to know that? |
| 06:55.51 | raster | didnt nokia get texture-from-pixmap working right with gl apps too>? |
| 06:56.18 | raster | arfe they doing software copies of the gl front buffer to the texture? |
| 06:56.31 | DocScrutinizer | raster: see? :-P |
| 06:57.06 | raster | ooh dear |
| 06:57.09 | raster | no bgra extension? |
| 06:57.19 | raster | boooooo! |
| 06:57.28 | cehteh | mhm .. playing video mounted over sshfs :P |
| 06:57.58 | raster | ooooh rendering artifacts |
| 06:58.00 | RST38h | is more interested by the fact that tv and lcd buffers seem to be separate |
| 06:58.02 | DocScrutinizer | well, modern TV you can stream your movie via BT |
| 06:58.23 | DocScrutinizer | raster: that too, yes :-( |
| 06:58.25 | RST38h | maybe mafw can be told to only show images in the tv buffer? |
| 06:59.10 | raster | hahahah |
| 06:59.10 | raster | oooh bugs bugs bugs |
| 06:59.11 | raster | oooh it doesnt render the app tile or close button |
| 06:59.42 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: I heard that should be possible |
| 06:59.53 | arachnist | cehteh: i tend to play 720p videos over sshfs from my box at home when i'm at work on a night shift |
| 07:01.25 | raster | ooooooh compositor is causing that rendering bug |
| 07:01.25 | raster | aha |
| 07:01.51 | DocScrutinizer | duh! |
| 07:01.59 | *** join/#maemo ZogG (~zoggrules@bzq-79-177-30-30.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 07:02.05 | *** join/#maemo tchan (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) |
| 07:02.11 | DocScrutinizer | raster: you're still with us? |
| 07:02.43 | raster | hmm actually no it isnt |
| 07:02.49 | raster | i correct myself |
| 07:02.52 | raster | its something else |
| 07:02.53 | raster | :) |
| 07:03.14 | DocScrutinizer | N900 AV that is? |
| 07:03.25 | *** join/#maemo RolaBlade (~Rola@hoasb-ff08dd00-36.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 07:03.29 | raster | av? |
| 07:03.43 | DocScrutinizer | av connector, cvbs, composite |
| 07:03.48 | raster | oh nono |
| 07:03.54 | raster | not talking about that |
| 07:06.40 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@84-75-177-47.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:08.51 | raster | actual rendering on the n900 |
| 07:09.04 | raster | i managed to miracrulously due to luck/persistence unbrick my n900 |
| 07:09.23 | raster | i've tried for the 5th time to get an sdk that works - finally with enough screwign around i can compile things.. and link to gl libs |
| 07:09.25 | DocScrutinizer | wooooow |
| 07:09.27 | ljp | i doubt it was bricked |
| 07:09.49 | raster | ljp: it was bricked |
| 07:10.03 | raster | turn on - no response by orange light |
| 07:10.05 | DocScrutinizer | raster knows to brick things ;-P |
| 07:10.08 | raster | no usb device appears on host |
| 07:10.12 | raster | nothing |
| 07:10.13 | raster | nada |
| 07:10.25 | raster | leave it plugged in for hourse or days - same result |
| 07:10.31 | raster | plug, unplug, plug, unplug - same result |
| 07:11.00 | DocScrutinizer | shiiit, how did you manage to resurrect it? |
| 07:11.05 | raster | eventually due to some luck i know not why.. it did turn on and presented a sub device |
| 07:11.07 | raster | i started flashing |
| 07:11.11 | raster | 70% thru - flash failed |
| 07:11.15 | raster | back to step 1 |
| 07:11.18 | raster | no life\ |
| 07:11.20 | raster | orange light |
| 07:11.21 | raster | etc. |
| 07:11.28 | raster | i just perservered and tried again |
| 07:11.34 | raster | and for some reason now - it booted |
| 07:11.37 | ljp | then it wasnt bricked :) |
| 07:11.41 | raster | so i flashed it - this time worked |
| 07:11.50 | raster | ljp: thats bricked enough for me |
| 07:11.51 | raster | :) |
| 07:12.03 | raster | no bootloader |
| 07:12.04 | raster | no life |
| 07:12.05 | raster | nothng works |
| 07:12.13 | raster | no output beyond an orange light |
| 07:12.14 | DocScrutinizer | raster: I really think you got a borked sample |
| 07:12.16 | ljp | i would suspect a dead battery is all :) |
| 07:12.23 | raster | (when plugged into usb - either wallcharger or pc) |
| 07:12.39 | raster | ljp: charging did nothing |
| 07:12.50 | ljp | leav it overnight? |
| 07:12.57 | raster | ljp: left it for days |
| 07:13.00 | raster | overnight |
| 07:13.01 | raster | all day |
| 07:13.03 | raster | multiple days |
| 07:13.11 | DocScrutinizer | not because it's been 'bricked' but more because of all the other things you told me |
| 07:13.13 | raster | orange light comes on indicating it's detected current on usb |
| 07:13.13 | ljp | they call that 'trickle' charging :) |
| 07:13.17 | raster | so it should atkleast trickyl charge |
| 07:13.20 | raster | yes |
| 07:13.22 | raster | but it didnt |
| 07:13.50 | ljp | sounds like a certain neo problem too |
| 07:14.00 | DangerMaus | you got a quirky one it seems |
| 07:14.00 | raster | i know about dead bats and trickle charging :) i've been thru the om wringer :) |
| 07:14.09 | raster | DangerMaus: i definitely did |
| 07:14.18 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 07:14.28 | raster | i've been adding mameo-extras to the apt soruces and it seems a whole bunch of os updates have happened |
| 07:14.40 | raster | the extras has yet more updates it seems |
| 07:14.41 | raster | anyway |
| 07:14.47 | raster | its now on and working |
| 07:14.52 | raster | plugged in :) |
| 07:14.57 | ljp | awesome |
| 07:15.07 | raster | just built efl for it |
| 07:15.10 | raster | testing gl engine |
| 07:15.19 | raster | n900/maemo opengl-0es libs have.. bugs... |
| 07:15.22 | raster | i'm tickling them |
| 07:15.29 | raster | compositor seems to have bugs |
| 07:15.39 | raster | doesnt render title and close button for expedite |
| 07:16.02 | raster | well not unless i go away from window and come back eg hit top-left for app chooser) |
| 07:16.08 | raster | software rendering works. |
| 07:16.19 | Termana_n810 | raster - i think you mean tackling... i don't think you tickle these types of bugs |
| 07:16.37 | DangerMaus | haha |
| 07:16.46 | raster | Termana_n810: no.. i just bitch. :) as gl-es is a closed binary blob.. thats all i will do :) |
| 07:28.04 | Termana_n810 | raster - most embedded GPU drivers are. i don't think i've really seen one that was open. i think openmoko's Glamo one is though. And the SmartQ one is err... open-ish (leaked) |
| 07:28.32 | Termana_n810 | oh, the OMAP2420 one is open for the driver |
| 07:29.33 | raster | Termana_n810: i know all of those |
| 07:29.49 | raster | the glamo was a very 1/4 arsed gpu,. gl-es1.1 with absolute minimal features |
| 07:29.59 | raster | couldnt even render att he res the gfx unit can drive |
| 07:30.16 | raster | the omap2 is an mbx - not open either. :) |
| 07:30.53 | raster | the smartq5 is the s3c6410 - yes, leaked, but no real implementations that work in the open. i have a fully working driver for it thats solid and does all the things - but thats an in-house effort. |
| 07:31.09 | raster | and my other prototypes here are also sgx.. but driver src is within my grasp and ability to fix up :) |
| 07:31.17 | raster | the n900 one.. is not |
| 07:32.21 | *** join/#maemo DangerMaus (~eeeeeeeee@tuxhacker/loft306) |
| 07:32.22 | luke-jr | raster: if it's in-house, could you release it? <.< |
| 07:32.31 | raster | no |
| 07:32.36 | luke-jr | :( |
| 07:32.42 | arachnist | signed some nasty NDAs, right? |
| 07:32.55 | raster | u dont get these babies without them |
| 07:33.09 | raster | even if i didnt have nda's... DONT BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU! |
| 07:33.10 | raster | :) |
| 07:33.10 | arachnist | right |
| 07:33.24 | luke-jr | well, obviously Samsung isn't attacking whoever leaked the docs...? :P |
| 07:33.54 | luke-jr | and that's flat out Samsung IP |
| 07:33.58 | raster | one thing leaking specsheets |
| 07:34.06 | raster | another leaking samsung copyright code that is the driver |
| 07:34.12 | luke-jr | ... |
| 07:34.12 | raster | or other things udner nda etc. etc. |
| 07:34.15 | raster | not going to do it |
| 07:34.21 | raster | it 1. violates nda |
| 07:34.21 | luke-jr | how is it Samsung copyright code if it's in-house?? |
| 07:34.28 | raster | 2. violates a level of trust put in me |
| 07:34.34 | raster | 3. vbites the hand that feed m3 |
| 07:34.36 | raster | me |
| 07:34.41 | raster | err bites |
| 07:35.00 | raster | luke-jr: the s3x6410 driver is samsugnin-house driver |
| 07:35.08 | raster | well in-house to 1 division - samsung is a massive place |
| 07:35.18 | raster | dont think of it as 1 company |
| 07:35.19 | luke-jr | oh |
| 07:35.23 | raster | think of it as 30 companies |
| 07:35.31 | luke-jr | I thought you meant it was in-house for your company :p |
| 07:35.40 | raster | each group will jealously guard their own code and work and products, etc. |
| 07:35.56 | raster | my company is ... me :) |
| 07:36.24 | arachnist | most of big companies are actually a few smaller companies these days, sharing little more than brand name |
| 07:36.40 | raster | yeah |
| 07:38.02 | DocScrutinizer | bank of raster :-) |
| 07:40.26 | DocScrutinizer | raster: so you'll create a few images/videos to make the omap gfx go booom? |
| 07:40.41 | raster | fixing some other code first |
| 07:40.47 | raster | but gl seems to have... issues |
| 07:40.53 | raster | spee dis the first one i notice |
| 07:41.05 | *** join/#maemo sivang (~sivan@ubuntu/member/sivang) |
| 07:41.08 | sivang | hi al |
| 07:41.12 | raster | then just rendering bugs |
| 07:41.15 | raster | missing stuff |
| 07:41.17 | raster | no bgra extn |
| 07:41.29 | raster | i think the sgx530 should handle bgra texture.. no? |
| 07:41.31 | raster | textures |
| 07:41.57 | DocScrutinizer | no idea what's bgra |
| 07:42.05 | sivang | following to the instructions on the wiki for freeing up space for the latest Fremantle upgrae arenot that useful |
| 07:42.26 | sivang | I've everything there and nothing helped, plus I had no conflicting packages |
| 07:42.38 | sivang | I've now manualy apt-get dist-upgraded |
| 07:42.39 | *** join/#maemo dottedmag (~dottedmag@altlinux/developer/dottedmag) |
| 07:42.56 | sivang | should I just restart the machine now ? |
| 07:43.28 | DocScrutinizer | you should probably reflash |
| 07:43.53 | sivang | how do I know if the reflashing worked like it does when OTA upgrade happes? |
| 07:44.00 | sivang | or does it not happen by iutself from apt ? :\|) |
| 07:44.03 | DocScrutinizer | heard apt-get dist-upgrade is... deprecated |
| 07:44.08 | sivang | heh |
| 07:44.13 | sivang | nice that it is mentioned as a solution |
| 07:44.25 | sivang | and my upgrade bug was close since "the error message is apparent" |
| 07:44.35 | sivang | I am a *tad* disappointment |
| 07:44.52 | luke-jr | apt-get is deprecated :D |
| 07:45.32 | sivang | ;) |
| 07:45.37 | sivang | so what'snow ? |
| 07:45.44 | luke-jr | aptitude |
| 07:46.11 | DocScrutinizer | tar :-) |
| 07:46.33 | sivang | luke-jr: apt-get can now do mostly everthing aptitude does, specifically regarding dependency resolution, mvo/Keybuk ported most of it from aptitude to apt-get |
| 07:46.50 | sivang | How do I make my device show the latest PR update? |
| 07:46.58 | luke-jr | sivang: how about recording user-selected packages properly? |
| 07:47.11 | sivang | luke-jr: right, well, not yet:) |
| 07:47.11 | luke-jr | sivang: in any case, there is no need for apt anymore :) |
| 07:47.32 | DocScrutinizer | sivang: actually doing a backup, then flashing a clean new system might be what you should do |
| 07:47.39 | sivang | I am afraid to install aptitude so my remaining space on rootfs will not vanishagain |
| 07:48.04 | *** join/#maemo droid001 (~g1@p4FDC9BEB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:48.13 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: if this is the solution, then we need to proactively prevent from users installing anything from extras. |
| 07:48.36 | DocScrutinizer | huh? why hat? |
| 07:48.41 | DocScrutinizer | that* |
| 07:49.06 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9089https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9089 |
| 07:49.09 | povbot | Bug 9089: Upgrading Maemo itself (nokia official recommended upgrade) failed with "no enough space" on target device. |
| 07:49.17 | sivang | ah, nice stupid LG touchpad |
| 07:49.29 | sivang | what is going on wth synaptic touchpads these days? they have all gone mad. |
| 07:49.55 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, so what does that tell me, beyond what we discussed already? |
| 07:50.44 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: right, so if we want to have an OS that is supposed to reach *users* , not *power users* or hackers, this needs to be solved automatically |
| 07:51.04 | sivang | but I gues that is something for MeeGo already.... |
| 07:51.09 | sivang | oh well |
| 07:51.18 | sivang | attempt a reboot of the machine |
| 07:51.48 | DocScrutinizer | sivang: if you fill your rootfs with apps, and then install new versions which all are a few bits larger... what can HAM do? |
| 07:52.03 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: why areapps installed to rootfs the first place? |
| 07:52.16 | DocScrutinizer | a good point |
| 07:52.28 | DocScrutinizer | ~optification |
| 07:52.28 | infobot | somebody said optification was a botch to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space |
| 07:52.55 | sivang | seems like I hae a new splash screen and the ugrade and working nice |
| 07:52.55 | DocScrutinizer | nevertheless /var and libs also tend to grow on each upgrade |
| 07:52.58 | cehteh | ... note that just disabling all non-nokia repos often helps |
| 07:53.06 | sivang | cehteh: didn't help here |
| 07:53.15 | raster | aha |
| 07:53.17 | raster | expedite bug |
| 07:53.18 | cehteh | worked for me twice .. |
| 07:53.18 | *** part/#maemo rlp10 (~richard@client-81-98-90-14.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) |
| 07:53.18 | raster | gaaaah |
| 07:53.28 | raster | peolpe chaning code to non-premul colors.. grrr |
| 07:53.35 | cehteh | well this partitioning is really fucked beyond repair |
| 07:53.37 | sivang | very nice |
| 07:54.12 | sivang | despite the my frustration, apt-get dist-upgrade did the job nicely. |
| 07:54.23 | sivang | firmware update success |
| 07:54.27 | *** join/#maemo LuciusMare (~LuciusMar@187.110.broadband4.iol.cz) |
| 07:55.04 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net) |
| 07:55.06 | sivang | so is there like an optification ongoing task ? |
| 07:55.17 | LuciusMare | Hi, i'd like to report that my adblock plus does not work - it does not block any ads, and when i mouseover the flash plugins, no "block" shows there |
| 07:55.19 | sivang | are there more packags left that need optification ? |
| 07:55.54 | DocScrutinizer | sivang: all in -devel I guess |
| 07:56.02 | cehteh | mhm which is the main cam /dev/video0 or /dev/video1? |
| 07:56.10 | LuciusMare | cehteh: video0 |
| 07:56.13 | cehteh | thanks |
| 07:56.20 | sivang | DocScrutinizer: okay then |
| 07:56.36 | arachnist | video0 here was the front facing cam, not the main one |
| 07:56.42 | arachnist | at least last time i checked |
| 07:56.44 | LuciusMare | hm |
| 07:57.20 | sivang | anybody has an LG T380 laptop around ? |
| 07:57.35 | LuciusMare | arachnist: main cam here |
| 07:57.42 | sivang | I wan't to install Ubuntu, but not sure with will happen splashtop |
| 07:57.46 | sivang | or Smart ON |
| 07:57.49 | *** join/#maemo furunk3l (~furunk3l@HSI-KBW-095-208-201-197.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 07:57.50 | sivang | as LG call it. |
| 07:58.12 | sivang | (this is a small linux distro that boots in les then 2 secs allowing to web IM and music play) |
| 07:59.07 | sivang | the installation used to screw up thinpad's Access IBM, |
| 07:59.12 | sivang | but it was never useful ;) |
| 07:59.17 | LuciusMare | whyyy dont you listen to me, adblock?? :( |
| 07:59.36 | *** join/#maemo ZogG (~zoggrules@bzq-79-177-30-30.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 07:59.41 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@60-241-211-180.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 07:59.41 | raster | how do u ask for compositor to turn off? |
| 07:59.41 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (~slauwers@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie) |
| 07:59.44 | DocScrutinizer | ~kill adblock |
| 07:59.45 | infobot | ACTION shoots a super-inverse electron gun at adblock |
| 07:59.48 | raster | or is it off normally? |
| 08:00.02 | sivang | anywa , off to get some breakfast |
| 08:00.03 | LuciusMare | DocScrutinizer: thanks, it deserved it |
| 08:00.06 | DocScrutinizer | raster: if *you* don't know |
| 08:00.06 | cehteh | say cheese! |
| 08:00.17 | LuciusMare | emental. |
| 08:00.26 | raster | DocScrutinizer: its a maemo/holidon thing.. so.. i dont know :) |
| 08:00.39 | raster | i understand that their compositor can turn itself off or on |
| 08:01.08 | cehteh | less /home/user/MyDocs/camtrace ... thanks :) |
| 08:01.18 | DocScrutinizer | raster: I don't even understand where to find docs *if* there were any |
| 08:03.35 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-121-111-176.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 08:03.46 | *** join/#maemo Gadgetoid_mbp (~phil@cpc3-nrwh9-2-0-cust561.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 08:03.46 | raster | google doesnt turn up much |
| 08:03.47 | raster | :( |
| 08:04.24 | DocScrutinizer | raster: that's the beauty of "the driver API is the doc, you don't need schem", just one level higher |
| 08:05.32 | raster | no |
| 08:05.45 | raster | i'd be happy with a doc that tells me |
| 08:05.52 | raster | i bet its some proptertyy or x client message |
| 08:05.55 | raster | just need to know which one |
| 08:07.08 | cehteh | i read somewhere on t.m.o about this .. when going fullscreen you set some hint to turn compositing off |
| 08:07.19 | raster | yeah |
| 08:07.22 | Stskeeps | raster: look at hldon-desktop and clutter source |
| 08:07.22 | raster | just need to know what it is |
| 08:07.26 | raster | i'd like it off even when not fs |
| 08:07.32 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi) |
| 08:07.35 | raster | Stskeeps: source! baaaah! |
| 08:07.36 | SplasPood | hrm... I have a bookmark that for whatever reason won't show up in the add bookmark list (when adding one to the desktop), anyone seen that? |
| 08:08.02 | cehteh | raster: how shall that work? the other elements on the screen are composited |
| 08:08.18 | cehteh | i mean yes it might work .. but i doubt its supported |
| 08:08.31 | raster | Stskeeps: http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop ? |
| 08:09.24 | raster | cehteh: no reason it couldnt... u';d lose some alpha in situations |
| 08:09.27 | raster | anyway |
| 08:09.52 | cehteh | yes thinking about the statusbar/clock and so on .. maybe these are rendered directly |
| 08:10.27 | cehteh | but anything else, icons, windows, widgets are composited as it looks |
| 08:10.48 | raster | cehteh: well looking at a regular window being up |
| 08:10.53 | raster | there is no compositing here |
| 08:10.58 | raster | or doesnt need to be in the nroma, case |
| 08:11.07 | raster | theres the bar at the top with nothng overlapping the window itself |
| 08:11.13 | raster | window smaller |
| 08:11.21 | cehteh | it might still be composited (at least so i thought) |
| 08:11.46 | LuciusMare | I give up, making thread on tmo |
| 08:11.50 | *** join/#maemo rlp10 (~rlp10@client-81-98-90-14.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) |
| 08:11.52 | cehteh | well you are the graphics programmer ... i dont know anything :P |
| 08:12.36 | raster | cehteh: wel i'm benchmarkign.. so i'd like for the compositor not to be adding overhead |
| 08:12.51 | *** join/#maemo choppa (~chigge@mnch-4d045e7b.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 08:12.53 | cehteh | the canonical way is do go fullscreen for that |
| 08:12.56 | raster | but all in all i can compare appls and apples... as i have another device that does composite too |
| 08:13.00 | rlp10 | LEAVE |
| 08:13.19 | raster | cehteh: netwm fulscreen? |
| 08:13.20 | *** part/#maemo rlp10 (~rlp10@client-81-98-90-14.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) |
| 08:13.29 | cehteh | whatevr :) |
| 08:13.41 | raster | well.. i'd hope so |
| 08:13.47 | cehteh | its so a small screen :] |
| 08:14.13 | *** join/#maemo rlp10 (~rlp10@client-81-98-90-14.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) |
| 08:14.28 | *** part/#maemo rlp10 (~rlp10@client-81-98-90-14.cht-bng-014.adsl.virginmedia.net) |
| 08:15.02 | cehteh | tries to take a nap |
| 08:15.48 | raster | ooh dear n900 definitely suffers |
| 08:16.01 | raster | apples to apples comparison |
| 08:16.05 | raster | well as close as it gets |
| 08:16.13 | raster | (n900 vs my toy here) |
| 08:16.15 | raster | both compositing |
| 08:16.20 | raster | both using gl-es |
| 08:16.23 | raster | both running smae benchmark |
| 08:16.30 | raster | both with same resolutions creen |
| 08:16.52 | raster | both with wm/desktop adding "bars" aroudn app not allowing it the complete screen |
| 08:17.08 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@93.48.147.100) |
| 08:17.12 | raster | nm900 is about 1/2 to 1/3 the speed |
| 08:17.21 | raster | software rendering benchmark |
| 08:19.57 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@83.149.9.18) |
| 08:21.50 | raster | god damned thats piss poor |
| 08:22.45 | DocScrutinizer | so odds are I'll not need to worry about crazy bouncing hopping spinning icons all over the place for a few more month - good |
| 08:23.04 | DangerMaus | hehehe |
| 08:24.39 | *** join/#maemo anotnac (~chatzilla@cpc2-dudl9-2-0-cust805.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 08:26.54 | raster | let me just let this baby run to completion |
| 08:27.48 | *** join/#maemo Flyser (~flyser@unaffiliated/flyser) |
| 08:27.52 | crashanddie | lol... |
| 08:28.44 | crashanddie | just randomly heard a car drive by, revving the engine, with "I love rock'n'roll" blasting, then squeaking tyres, and the sound of a metal bending and glass breaking |
| 08:28.59 | crashanddie | From down the street "I'm all right, I'm all right" |
| 08:29.51 | raster | hmmm |
| 08:29.55 | raster | solid images borked |
| 08:30.04 | raster | i wonder why... |
| 08:32.09 | raster | DocScrutinizer: 152% faster on average |
| 08:32.15 | raster | (than n900) |
| 08:32.38 | DocScrutinizer | you doped it :-D |
| 08:33.47 | DocScrutinizer | raster: well I prefer 0clock over gfx grunt all days |
| 08:34.05 | raster | DocScrutinizer: u have 0xlock on n900 |
| 08:34.09 | raster | 0clock |
| 08:34.19 | raster | actually i hope to have that too... i hear its being worked on |
| 08:34.22 | DocScrutinizer | that's what I say |
| 08:34.24 | DangerMaus | crashanddie, they wont be doing that outside youe window for a while |
| 08:34.42 | DocScrutinizer | not on Ur proto's CPU |
| 08:34.52 | DocScrutinizer | aiui |
| 08:34.58 | *** join/#maemo alex-weej (~alex@cpc8-acto1-2-0-cust359.know.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 08:35.27 | raster | DocScrutinizer: zeroclock for my proto - yes. being worked on |
| 08:35.44 | raster | it already has cpufreq all working mostly happily |
| 08:36.00 | DocScrutinizer | don't see how that SoC is going to implement 0clock |
| 08:36.31 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, cpufreq. But real 0clock is a different game |
| 08:37.37 | raster | i know |
| 08:37.42 | raster | i was told they can do it |
| 08:37.44 | raster | and its on their plans |
| 08:37.58 | raster | even if u dont do 0 clokc |
| 08:38.02 | raster | if u go down to- like 1mhz |
| 08:38.14 | raster | or something that is so low in power usage its virtually the same |
| 08:38.24 | DocScrutinizer | yep, 1MHz qite possible |
| 08:38.55 | raster | so i cna run for 10 days - instead of 11 if u drop to 1mhz vs zero clock |
| 08:38.59 | raster | at that point... its didums |
| 08:39.35 | raster | whatever gets u in that ballpark |
| 08:39.40 | raster | ie u can run without actually suspending |
| 08:39.42 | DocScrutinizer | I'd like to see 10 days with SIP |
| 08:39.54 | raster | and use about the same power as suspending |
| 08:40.00 | raster | well with wifi off, 3g off etc. |
| 08:40.02 | raster | itd be doable |
| 08:40.19 | DocScrutinizer | then you can suspend as well |
| 08:40.36 | raster | sure |
| 08:40.40 | DocScrutinizer | as with all IF down, there's actually very few to process |
| 08:40.41 | *** join/#maemo |R (~bob@66.49.187.37) |
| 08:40.51 | *** join/#maemo lbt (~david@Maemo/community/contributor/lbt) |
| 08:41.52 | DocScrutinizer | well let's see how that samsung die performs, once you got a real system |
| 08:43.36 | *** join/#maemo ljp (~quassel@CPE-58-173-176-153.wucz1.woo.bigpond.net.au) |
| 08:49.50 | Stskeeps | what was the reflow shortcut for microb again? |
| 08:50.43 | *** part/#maemo DangerMaus (~eeeeeeeee@tuxhacker/loft306) |
| 08:54.27 | *** join/#maemo wormsxulla (chatzill@unaffiliated/wormsxulla) |
| 08:55.58 | *** join/#maemo lbt__ (~david@78.32.229.233) |
| 08:58.08 | DocScrutinizer | ctrl-foo |
| 08:58.10 | DocScrutinizer | ? |
| 08:58.16 | DocScrutinizer | R? |
| 08:58.26 | DocScrutinizer | O? |
| 08:58.34 | Stskeeps | I it seems |
| 08:59.23 | raster | DocScrutinizer: it is a real system actually - much like the freerunenr + debug board on the ribbon cable |
| 08:59.26 | raster | just no ribbon cabole |
| 08:59.38 | raster | pcb is actually extended out the side with debug attachments on |
| 08:59.54 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 09:00.42 | DocScrutinizer | seen a GTA01 on a debug yigg pcb in your office in TPE |
| 09:00.54 | DocScrutinizer | probably looked somewhat similar |
| 09:00.59 | raster | another example i guess |
| 09:01.00 | raster | yeah |
| 09:01.08 | raster | just here its all made as 1 pcb |
| 09:01.22 | raster | there are versions without the thing out the side - all looking production-like :) |
| 09:02.35 | DocScrutinizer | when your next flight goes over D, drop one into my garden :-) |
| 09:02.46 | raster | hahahahah |
| 09:03.47 | DocScrutinizer | candybar-bomber :-D |
| 09:08.27 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-085-216-083-242.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 09:08.49 | *** join/#maemo zacattack (~zacattack@nat/yahoo/x-ajcqgqxpwuwbhfvd) |
| 09:12.18 | *** join/#maemo Terje1 (~Terje@a91-152-105-94.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 09:14.02 | *** join/#maemo Vanadis (~Vanadis__@84-75-177-47.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:17.22 | *** join/#maemo Mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 09:18.39 | Mece | hey |
| 09:18.46 | Mece | is there a bug report about media player widget unpauseing paused music after a call? |
| 09:20.04 | *** join/#maemo dvoid_ (~dvoid@h213n5-sde-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 09:21.52 | *** join/#maemo lucas (~lucas@xanadu.blop.info) |
| 09:22.04 | lucas | hi |
| 09:24.08 | *** part/#maemo Myrtti (myrtti@ubuntu/member/pdpc.professional.myrtti) |
| 09:24.08 | *** join/#maemo Myrtti (myrtti@ubuntu/member/pdpc.professional.myrtti) |
| 09:25.20 | *** join/#maemo rdorsch (~rd@p5B2027A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:25.25 | *** join/#maemo marmara (~5b9bbc61@gateway/web/freenode/x-vrrgqfruvgimpoof) |
| 09:27.59 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi) |
| 09:28.16 | *** part/#maemo marmara (~5b9bbc61@gateway/web/freenode/x-vrrgqfruvgimpoof) |
| 09:28.37 | *** join/#maemo ZogG (~zoggrules@bzq-79-177-30-30.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 09:32.50 | *** join/#maemo MarkBao (~MarkBao@pool-173-76-27-66.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 09:33.36 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~wazd@188.123.241.73) |
| 09:38.52 | lucas | what is the best way to play videos on the n900 which are larger than the n900 screen? |
| 09:39.08 | lucas | mplayer -vo x11 -zoom is kind of slow ;) |
| 09:40.53 | flux | for one, there is no avoiding decoding the whole video area anyway, so I'm not sure how much better can be done |
| 09:41.01 | flux | but I hope better than what -vo x11 does anyway :) |
| 09:41.12 | *** join/#maemo raster_ (~raster@124-168-150-89.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 09:41.27 | *** join/#maemo siri1 (~cse32@210.212.222.41) |
| 09:44.08 | *** join/#maemo raster_ (~raster@124-168-150-89.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 09:45.09 | Lynoure | Mobile dev camp today, but the Qt talk there is very basic "what is Qt"... so had to pull out my laptop |
| 09:49.53 | timoph | good. I don't feel bad anymore for missing the train to helsinki :) |
| 09:51.09 | *** join/#maemo marcels (~marcels@84.26.166.31) |
| 09:56.08 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (~Meizirkki@bbwirelessgw2-fee1dc00-2.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 09:59.07 | *** join/#maemo raster (~raster@enlightenment/developer/raster) |
| 09:59.07 | *** join/#maemo DangerMaus (~eeeeeeeee@tuxhacker/loft306) |
| 09:59.35 | *** join/#maemo ZogG (~zoggrules@bzq-79-177-30-30.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 10:00.53 | *** join/#maemo Acedip (~ani@fedora/Acedip) |
| 10:02.46 | villager | lucas: it's generally a good idea to use -vo xv instead of -vo x11 on a regular pc, so probably also on the n900... |
| 10:03.21 | villager | that'll at least offload the scaling to the gpu |
| 10:03.21 | *** join/#maemo Sargun (~Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 10:04.08 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@200.84-49-138.nextgentel.com) |
| 10:07.00 | villager | using the builtin gstreamer stuff will also offload the decoding to the dsp |
| 10:10.02 | *** join/#maemo DangerMaus (~eeeeeeeee@tuxhacker/loft306) |
| 10:12.30 | lucas | villager: yes, but gstreamer apparently can't play the video I'm interested in, and I don't know how to debug it |
| 10:14.00 | villager | lucas: ok... well, if you have to use mplayer, then like I said, try to at least use xv, not x11 |
| 10:16.36 | *** join/#maemo sepultina (~quassel@zux221-186-131.adsl.green.ch) |
| 10:18.07 | *** join/#maemo jpe (~jpe@d5152834E.access.telenet.be) |
| 10:21.21 | *** join/#maemo jsa_ (~jsa@dna23-252.tampere.customers.dnainternet.fi) |
| 10:22.56 | lucas | apparently xv doesn't work if size(images from video) > size(screen) |
| 10:24.18 | *** part/#maemo siri1 (~cse32@210.212.222.41) |
| 10:28.48 | ShadowJK | I doubt you'll be able to sanely play videos bigger than screen on n900 :) |
| 10:29.32 | villager | lucas: hmm, interesting |
| 10:30.24 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@200.84-49-138.nextgentel.com) |
| 10:31.51 | *** join/#maemo cbrake (~cbrake@oh-69-34-21-229.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 10:34.58 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: what else is the composite out for? |
| 10:35.58 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 10:37.57 | lucas | apparently I'm hit by https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8913 |
| 10:37.58 | povbot | Bug 8913: Media Player can't play "XviD ISO MPEG-4" |
| 10:42.46 | *** join/#maemo amjad1 (~amjadduba@92.99.159.111) |
| 10:43.00 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 10:43.25 | lucas | so, if I want to re-encode the video so that I can play it on the n900, what would be appropriate parameters? |
| 10:44.09 | *** join/#maemo Flyser (~flyser@unaffiliated/flyser) |
| 10:44.21 | lucas | ah, found http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Video_Encoding |
| 10:45.25 | ShadowJK | The composite hardly even does 800x480 :) |
| 10:45.42 | ShadowJK | 800x480 h264 baseline 3.0 |
| 10:45.51 | ShadowJK | or something like that iirc |
| 10:46.44 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: but 32>3.5 |
| 10:47.24 | *** join/#maemo marcels (~marcels@84.26.166.31) |
| 10:48.34 | *** join/#maemo SWFu64 (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu) |
| 10:50.50 | *** join/#maemo promulo (~romulo@189.71.42.152) |
| 10:51.46 | *** join/#maemo DangerMaus (~eeeeeeeee@tuxhacker/loft306) |
| 10:53.13 | thresh | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxp4TjAkSL8 |
| 10:53.17 | thresh | oops ENOCHAN |
| 10:56.33 | *** join/#maemo borism (~boris@213-35-235-6-dsl.end.estpak.ee) |
| 10:57.24 | Dantonic | doesnt that hurt? |
| 10:58.03 | thresh | i think that bike has a suspension, plus his saddle has some too |
| 10:58.45 | thresh | although i ocasionally get me kicked straight there on my 200mm susp bike :( |
| 10:58.58 | Dantonic | should land on the pedals |
| 10:59.06 | Dantonic | with feet on pedals |
| 10:59.11 | Dantonic | avoid the crotch slap |
| 11:00.05 | thresh | this usually happens when the slope is too steep and i'm almost riding on my rear wheel |
| 11:05.11 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@213.59.86.89) |
| 11:05.44 | *** join/#maemo Dialekt (~Dialekt@cpe-75-85-113-244.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 11:08.30 | *** join/#maemo kkito (~offs@13.Red-88-1-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 11:11.53 | *** join/#maemo BabelO (~fcr@2a01:e35:2ee1:c1c0:21e:8cff:fe2d:7d3f) |
| 11:11.53 | *** join/#maemo BabelO (~fcr@unaffiliated/babelo) |
| 11:14.33 | *** join/#maemo oly (~sysadmin@94-193-143-29.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 11:23.36 | *** join/#maemo jreznik (~jreznik@36.173.broadband6.iol.cz) |
| 11:25.36 | *** join/#maemo felipec (~felipec@a91-153-253-80.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 11:25.57 | wazd | heya all |
| 11:26.03 | Stskeeps | lo wazdie |
| 11:29.39 | *** join/#maemo zs (~zs@188-220-50-10.zone11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 11:33.07 | crashanddie | thresh: something tells me he won't have many kids |
| 11:33.33 | *** join/#maemo Aranel (~Aranel@88.232.255.59) |
| 11:33.33 | *** join/#maemo Aranel (~Aranel@unaffiliated/aranel) |
| 11:33.52 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (~david@c-67-174-39-138.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 11:34.15 | Aranel | needs some Photoshop assistance =) (for 1 logo and 2 buttons, not much) |
| 11:34.37 | *** join/#maemo serban488 (~serban488@89.123.107.6) |
| 11:34.42 | oly | hi, can anyone point me at a n900 widget example preferably in python ? |
| 11:34.43 | serban488 | sal |
| 11:34.57 | serban488 | clujeni sunt |
| 11:37.14 | *** part/#maemo DangerMaus (~eeeeeeeee@tuxhacker/loft306) |
| 11:37.38 | oly | i found one but it imports hildondesktop which does not exist on my n900 :/ |
| 11:38.31 | frals | pretty sure you gonna need hildondesktop to do a widget |
| 11:39.15 | oly | hum i was wondering that, just would of expected it to be included by default on the n900 for other widgets |
| 11:39.24 | oly | but perhaps there all written in C |
| 11:42.32 | Stskeeps | oly, python-hildondesktop pkg exists afaik |
| 11:44.29 | oly | Stskeeps, so it does installing now :) |
| 11:46.57 | amjad1 | why does maemo only support ubuntu , why not fedora |
| 11:47.38 | ShadowJK | dont forget windows and macos |
| 11:47.54 | ShadowJK | and solaris, *bsd |
| 11:48.58 | oly | if it works on ubuntu surely it can work on others if some one works on it ? |
| 11:49.11 | *** join/#maemo Mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 11:49.23 | oly | perhaps theres not enough demand yet |
| 11:50.02 | oly | and there is the virtual image |
| 11:50.17 | Mece | hello |
| 11:50.29 | ShadowJK | Yeah it's just easier to use the image then to install it on fedora |
| 11:50.33 | Mece | could someone confirm Bug 9307 |
| 11:50.34 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9307 Media player widget plays paused music after call |
| 11:57.44 | *** join/#maemo Gadgetoid_mbp (~phil@cpc3-nrwh9-2-0-cust561.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 11:59.10 | *** join/#maemo jwittema (~jwittema@5ED2890C.cable.ziggo.nl) |
| 12:03.57 | *** join/#maemo juliank (~juliank@ubuntu/member/juliank) |
| 12:04.25 | Lynoure | What app do you prefer for storing passwords safely? |
| 12:04.45 | Lynoure | I've tried a couple and they seem quite... quirky. or overcomplicated |
| 12:05.14 | *** join/#maemo The_Tall1 (~A@p50816496.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:08.53 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (~david@c-67-174-39-138.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 12:09.55 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 12:10.19 | *** join/#maemo Termana (~bradley@123-3-161-192.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 12:11.47 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (~david@c-67-174-39-138.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 12:12.35 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 12:14.10 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (~david@c-67-174-39-138.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 12:17.08 | *** join/#maemo tkharju (~tkharju@84-253-216-252.satp.customers.dnainternet.fi) |
| 12:17.16 | *** part/#maemo tkharju (~tkharju@84-253-216-252.satp.customers.dnainternet.fi) |
| 12:20.46 | *** join/#maemo FatalSaint (~fatal@174-23-136-9.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 12:21.32 | *** join/#maemo MSameerWork (~mohammed@a83-245-160-234.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 12:21.33 | *** join/#maemo BabelO (~fcr@unaffiliated/babelo) |
| 12:30.42 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 12:31.27 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (~david@c-67-174-39-138.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 12:31.40 | *** join/#maemo SWFu64 (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu) |
| 12:38.08 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 12:40.16 | Arif_ | moo |
| 12:41.41 | *** join/#maemo Tuco11 (~Tuco1@148.106.4.6) |
| 12:41.58 | Gadgetoid_mbp | oom |
| 12:42.09 | arachnist | nom nom nom |
| 12:42.25 | Gadgetoid_mbp | Yay! |
| 12:42.58 | arachnist | 's description of java memory usage |
| 12:44.42 | Arif_ | installs java on arachnist's N900 |
| 12:44.50 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 12:45.31 | *** join/#maemo trbs (~trbs@82-169-23-132.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 12:48.04 | *** join/#maemo ZogG (~zoggrules@bzq-79-177-30-30.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 12:49.09 | *** join/#maemo trofi (~slyfox@178.125.68.158) |
| 12:52.48 | thresh | how do i debug fmms? |
| 12:52.56 | *** join/#maemo saltsa_ (aunola@xdsl-179-131.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 12:53.05 | thresh | somehow it doesnt download mms i just received |
| 12:53.08 | SpeedEvil | give frals lots of money to take the bugs out? |
| 12:53.41 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 12:53.41 | thresh | that is an option indeed! |
| 12:55.05 | *** join/#maemo igagis (~igagis@cs181109083.pp.htv.fi) |
| 12:57.32 | *** join/#maemo Ellas (~chatzilla@82.77.86.252) |
| 12:57.56 | *** join/#maemo FSCV (~SCV@189.141.3.195) |
| 12:57.56 | Ellas | hello! |
| 12:58.21 | *** join/#maemo FatalSaint (~fatal@97-117-94-95.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 12:59.30 | Stskeeps | lo FatalSaint |
| 13:00.02 | Arif_ | stop using MMS'es! |
| 13:00.26 | Arif_ | No one ever sent me an MMS ={ |
| 13:00.47 | N900evil | me neither |
| 13:00.59 | Arif_ | those things cost â¬0,50 here |
| 13:01.07 | Arif_ | :D |
| 13:01.36 | Arif_ | I'd rather use my 3G connection to communicate ;D |
| 13:04.53 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 13:05.40 | RST38h | moos |
| 13:06.19 | Arif_ | installs java on RST38h's N900 |
| 13:08.13 | Termana | Arif_ - Thats a crime against nature. I'm reporting this to Peter |
| 13:08.41 | Arif_ | but but |
| 13:08.43 | Arif_ | java is teh win! |
| 13:08.46 | Arif_ | look at Android! |
| 13:08.56 | Termana | EXACTLY! |
| 13:08.58 | Termana | :P |
| 13:09.15 | Arif_ | EVERYONE MUST USE JAVA |
| 13:09.25 | Termana | I didn't need you to prove my point by pointing out Android :P |
| 13:09.28 | Arif_ | SO WE CAN ONLY WATCH MP4 CRAP ON OUR PHONES |
| 13:09.30 | Arif_ | =P |
| 13:10.00 | Arif_ | Google just hates their users :( |
| 13:10.56 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~wazd@188.123.241.73) |
| 13:11.56 | RST38h | publicly defecates on Java |
| 13:11.57 | RST38h | Sorry |
| 13:12.05 | RST38h | ehlo wazd |
| 13:12.18 | Arif_ | Sun will not love you |
| 13:12.20 | Arif_ | ={ |
| 13:12.28 | RST38h | Sun? What is Sun? =) |
| 13:12.39 | RST38h | Some ancient hardware company bought by Oracle? |
| 13:12.48 | *** join/#maemo _julian (~quassel@dslc-082-083-133-099.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:12.52 | _julian | hi all |
| 13:12.53 | Arif_ | yes! |
| 13:13.01 | RST38h | ah fuck that. |
| 13:13.06 | Arif_ | still says oracle + sun on their site :P |
| 13:13.32 | _julian | is someone here familiar with lightmediascanner? - I am wondering how to detect updated and/or added files through the progress_status? |
| 13:13.36 | wazd | RST38h: moo |
| 13:16.54 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 13:17.43 | *** join/#maemo wazd_ (~wazd@188.123.241.73) |
| 13:17.50 | *** join/#maemo djkrikke (~djkrikke@d54C2F708.access.telenet.be) |
| 13:17.56 | *** join/#maemo zs (~zs@188-220-50-10.zone11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 13:18.03 | MiXu- | Hi. I just started a new project in garage. I'm new to open source. Is there any documentation on licensing that I should read? I'm using LGPL. |
| 13:18.49 | MiXu- | Should I for example have something written about licensing in my sources? (Nokia seems to do this) |
| 13:18.51 | RST38h | wazd: New Maemo Mapper is out, from the main repo, with Shmuma's stuff |
| 13:18.58 | RST38h | wazd: Still majorly screwed up though |
| 13:19.10 | derf | ... |
| 13:19.16 | pupnik | sorry i can not show you the girls from last night because the PHOTO APP IS NOT SHOWING THE PICS |
| 13:19.28 | derf | I'm still using my N810 more than my N900. |
| 13:19.38 | derf | Largely because of mapper. |
| 13:20.00 | djkrikke | Is it possible to enable the devel repository for 1 certain app? So the other applications won't automatically update if there is a new version in the devel repo? |
| 13:20.07 | pupnik | can yopu still enjoy the keyboard derf ? |
| 13:20.19 | wazd_ | rst38h: well, since my n800 can work for 2 hours only I doubt that I can find any use for maemo mapper :) |
| 13:20.43 | pupnik | goong to reboot piece of shit. maybe they will show |
| 13:20.48 | RST38h | derf: Maep |
| 13:20.49 | derf | pupnik: I enjoy having hardware keys to navigate the map. |
| 13:20.56 | wazd_ | Rst38h: cached yandex maps works fine though :) |
| 13:21.03 | RST38h | wazd: How about new battery? |
| 13:21.21 | wazd_ | RsT38h: it's new |
| 13:21.52 | RST38h | derf: BTW, I will be in the MD/DC/VA area from March 4 ro March 18, so if you want to cross paths at some coffee place, let me know |
| 13:21.53 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 13:22.04 | RST38h | wazd: Then how the hell...? |
| 13:22.43 | derf | I don't drink coffee (or beer for that matter). But we could always grab a pizza or something. |
| 13:22.53 | RST38h | derf: pizza will do. |
| 13:22.57 | wazd_ | Rst38h: dunno, already reflashed it |
| 13:23.34 | *** join/#maemo KMFDM (~tKMFDM@ip5658167f.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 13:24.11 | RST38h | wazd: I am now basically forced into making TI84+SE work, due to availability of the rom =) |
| 13:24.36 | wazd_ | Rst38h: oh, great) |
| 13:24.37 | wazd_ | Rst38h: at last :) |
| 13:24.49 | RST38h | wazd: Well, not sure if the dump is valid yet |
| 13:25.16 | RST38h | wazd: The 83+ and later models are weird on the inside - copy protection, writable flash roms, etc |
| 13:25.30 | wazd_ | rst38h: hello kitty mode included?) |
| 13:27.06 | *** join/#maemo promulo (~romulo@189.71.51.250) |
| 13:29.03 | RST38h | wazd: well, if you add an extra button to the top menu then why not |
| 13:29.16 | RST38h | wazd: Otherwise, I will have to force it every friday or something =) |
| 13:30.26 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 13:30.52 | wazd_ | Heh) |
| 13:30.54 | *** join/#maemo mschr (~mschr@0x5da7e7f2.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1105.srnqu1.customer.tele.dk) |
| 13:37.28 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~pupnik@p54B2EEBA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:38.02 | pupnik | the goddamn mp4 is right in DCIM but media player, media box dont see it |
| 13:38.57 | *** join/#maemo koupsa (~koupsa@2a01:e35:1386:4120:222:43ff:fe32:b871) |
| 13:40.54 | *** join/#maemo SWFu64 (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu) |
| 13:41.07 | pupnik | yo man BAD job |
| 13:42.24 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 13:43.25 | djkrikke | what do you guys think is the best for battery life, edge connection or wifi connection? |
| 13:43.38 | SpeedEvil | wifi |
| 13:43.54 | SpeedEvil | wifi with powersave |
| 13:44.09 | ShadowJK | wifi, unless you have a crap access point |
| 13:44.10 | djkrikke | ok, that's what I've configured already |
| 13:44.27 | djkrikke | how can you "test" if power saving works the way it should? |
| 13:44.29 | *** join/#maemo booiiing (booiiing@cl-959.dus-01.de.sixxs.net) |
| 13:44.31 | Lynoure | djkrikke: autodisconnect seems nice |
| 13:44.51 | djkrikke | indeed Lynoure |
| 13:44.53 | djkrikke | but that's in devel |
| 13:45.00 | Lynoure | djkrikke: by not doing anything and seeing if your net gets disconnected, perhaps. |
| 13:45.05 | djkrikke | and I don't want to add devel because all the other apps will start updating with devel versions |
| 13:45.06 | Lynoure | Many good things are :) |
| 13:45.31 | Lynoure | djkrikke: you can add, install, disable devel again, if curious. |
| 13:47.06 | djkrikke | oh really? |
| 13:47.10 | djkrikke | that's maybe a good idea |
| 13:47.42 | djkrikke | what other apps do you think are good, but in devel? |
| 13:50.03 | djkrikke | (that question was to Lynoure, sorry for not mentioning) |
| 13:51.04 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu_N800 (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 13:52.53 | *** join/#maemo ibrahimmohammed (~ibrahimmo@91.107.47.51) |
| 13:53.15 | *** join/#maemo fabinader (~c8e5c438@gateway/web/freenode/x-obqkgeqszpgafgrp) |
| 13:53.49 | fabinader | Hi, anyone knows how to include libgq-gconf (a GConf wrapper for Qt) into your Qt project (.pro) file? |
| 13:54.09 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 13:55.54 | *** join/#maemo bilboed (~bilboed@89.129.135.243) |
| 13:58.48 | djkrikke | hmm, this looks like a bug, each time I receive an e-mail I click on the "popup", but I get an empty mail.. |
| 13:58.53 | djkrikke | it is in my inbox howee |
| 13:58.55 | djkrikke | *however |
| 13:59.37 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@93.48.147.100) |
| 14:03.39 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 14:04.51 | *** join/#maemo tearms (~tearms@cpe-67-252-158-86.buffalo.res.rr.com) |
| 14:06.04 | *** join/#maemo celesteh (~celesteh@sblug/member/celesteh) |
| 14:06.15 | N900evil | djdjel clicking too fast? |
| 14:06.32 | Gadgetoid_mbp | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV7WXAqBAM4 + N900 = YAY :D |
| 14:06.36 | N900evil | I think I just had that happen with sms |
| 14:06.50 | *** join/#maemo victorpoluceno (~victorpol@200-193-73-197.bnut3700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 14:09.47 | *** join/#maemo trem (~trem@AToulouse-256-1-111-70.w86-210.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 14:10.39 | Lynoure | djkrikke: hmm, not sure, most of the time I don't differentiate where my apps come from... |
| 14:13.17 | pupnik | the transflective screen gives a beautiful green/orange in direct sunlight |
| 14:13.53 | pupnik | doesnt seem to flicker like n810 |
| 14:16.06 | djkrikke | Lynoure: I understand, what are some of your favourite apps then? |
| 14:16.25 | Lynoure | djkrikke: Quicknote, certainly |
| 14:16.42 | *** join/#maemo jophish (~jophish@hermi.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 14:16.50 | SpeedEvil | pupnik: you can turn the backlight entirely off too |
| 14:17.02 | Lynoure | djkrikke: Eggtimer from ovistore (embarrassed, but it's a nice alarm for pomodoros) |
| 14:17.17 | djkrikke | Lynoure: nice one lol |
| 14:17.38 | SpeedEvil | FBreader/xchat |
| 14:17.42 | Lynoure | djkrikke: Exercise Counter |
| 14:17.46 | SpeedEvil | camkeyd |
| 14:18.07 | SpeedEvil | speedy |
| 14:18.16 | Lynoure | Still looking for a decent password manager |
| 14:18.17 | SpeedEvil | (checks current internet speed) |
| 14:18.30 | Lynoure | all seem quirky or way too cluttered |
| 14:18.38 | Lynoure | Recommendations for one, anyone? |
| 14:18.53 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 14:21.18 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~pupnik@p54B2EEBA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:21.26 | djkrikke | Lynoure: doesn't microB save your passwords? |
| 14:21.36 | *** join/#maemo cjdavis1 (~cjdavis@cpe-71-67-99-208.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 14:21.46 | Lynoure | djkrikke: not for my other systems it does not |
| 14:22.17 | Lynoure | djkrikke: looking for a thing that stores notes or passwords encrypted in a file somewhere |
| 14:22.24 | djkrikke | I see |
| 14:28.01 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu_N800 (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 14:31.25 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu_N800 (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 14:31.33 | djkrikke | disco_stu, having problems? :P |
| 14:31.53 | crashanddie | god it feels good to shave |
| 14:31.58 | crashanddie | first time in three weeks now |
| 14:36.55 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 14:39.12 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 14:39.49 | *** join/#maemo andrei1089 (~andrei108@81.18.92.10) |
| 14:42.37 | andrei1089 | Hi, I'm trying to change the description of a package on maemo.org/downloads, but after a short time the old description is shown again. What am I doing wrong? |
| 14:42.43 | pupnik | mediabox also fails to see my new videos |
| 14:43.04 | pupnik | ow andrei1089 |
| 14:44.31 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu_N800 (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 14:45.51 | *** join/#maemo DangerMaus (~eeeeeeeee@tuxhacker/loft306) |
| 14:47.44 | villager | andrei1089: you're probably trying to change the description of the package on maemo.org/downloads, that's what you're doing wrong I think |
| 14:47.56 | villager | andrei1089: you're supposed to change it in the package itself, it updates from there |
| 14:48.42 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 14:48.57 | *** join/#maemo avs (~avs@a88-113-5-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:49.36 | andrei1089 | villager, then why is the option to change the description still available? |
| 14:50.25 | villager | andrei1089: it's a bug, it's been discussed but never done anything about |
| 14:50.36 | djkrikke | *runs away from bugs* |
| 14:51.03 | andrei1089 | ok, thanks villager |
| 14:51.08 | villager | andrei1089: it's a legacy from the n770/n800/etc days, when it did not work that way |
| 14:52.00 | villager | andrei1089: back then you updated on the webpage... but on the n900, the package description is supposed to be the same that you see in the app manager or something, I think |
| 14:52.13 | villager | which is taken from the package itself |
| 14:53.10 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 14:53.23 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 14:53.53 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (~EHS1@dslb-088-074-023-223.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:53.56 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (~EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 14:55.26 | *** join/#maemo onion (~milang@tori.tal.org) |
| 14:58.11 | *** join/#maemo richieeee72 (~richard@host86-156-152-171.range86-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:59.02 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 15:00.48 | *** join/#maemo renato_ (~renato@200.184.118.130) |
| 15:06.50 | *** join/#maemo embedded (~luigi@host244-156-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:06.57 | embedded | Hi all |
| 15:08.02 | embedded | Who knows how to create a ".desktop" file to run an application under X-Terminal with root priviledges? |
| 15:08.02 | SpeedEvil | hu |
| 15:09.16 | *** join/#maemo stevenhong (~xihong@124.240.125.27) |
| 15:10.38 | embedded | no one? |
| 15:10.49 | *** join/#maemo marcels (~marcels@84.26.166.31) |
| 15:11.44 | crashanddie | embedded: asked a million times and then some |
| 15:11.46 | crashanddie | embedded: google it |
| 15:12.41 | *** join/#maemo Tuco1 (~Tuco1@unaffiliated/tuco) |
| 15:13.06 | embedded | crashanddie: I just made some searches, but I only found how to create a shortcut to run app under XTerm but not as root |
| 15:14.33 | crashanddie | embedded: your google must be broken, look what I just found: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=538655#post538655 |
| 15:16.15 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 15:16.58 | *** join/#maemo waled999 (~CO_BB_SOR@95.66.40.90) |
| 15:17.47 | *** join/#maemo fabinader (~c8e5c438@gateway/web/freenode/x-dyipfwppeotitxzr) |
| 15:19.09 | embedded | crashanddie: I have already found it, but it doesn't work fine. Let me explain: if I launch XTerm and type "sudo gainroot" and then run my ncurses app, it works fine, if instead, I launch it by shortcut it seems to hang the phone, why? |
| 15:19.39 | pupnik | i just type "root" btw |
| 15:20.01 | crashanddie | embedded: have you tried with a simple command? |
| 15:20.12 | fabinader | Hi, anyone would know why I cannot access the GConf path /system/osso/connectivity/IAP/<IAP_NAME> through gconftool-2 within Scratchbox, although the directory is correctly created in /var/lib/gconf//system/osso/connectivity/IAP/<IAP_NAME> within Scratchbox? |
| 15:20.16 | crashanddie | embedded: something like "whoami"? |
| 15:20.31 | crashanddie | fabinader: access rights? |
| 15:21.38 | fabinader | crashanddie: What do you mean? The onwer must be "root"? It must be executable? |
| 15:21.51 | *** join/#maemo jo-erlend (~jo-erlend@ti221110a080-0463.bb.online.no) |
| 15:22.16 | crashanddie | fabinader: well, what user does it belong to, what are the access rights for said directory, and what user are you using? |
| 15:23.23 | *** part/#maemo richieeee72 (~richard@host86-156-152-171.range86-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:23.43 | embedded | crashanddie: to make it works and don't load CPU quite to 80% I have to get root priviledges first and *only* after execute the app. It doesn't work with a single line command concatenation |
| 15:24.01 | *** join/#maemo richieeee72 (~richard@host86-156-152-171.range86-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:24.18 | *** part/#maemo richieeee72 (~richard@host86-156-152-171.range86-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:24.29 | fabinader | crashanddie: Q1 - "maemo", Q2 - drwxrwxr-x 2 maemo maemo, Q3 - "maemo" I beleive, as whoami returend "maemo" |
| 15:26.20 | *** join/#maemo Woolly (~Woolly@cpc3-broo7-2-0-cust609.14-2.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 15:27.44 | crashanddie | embedded: not the question I asked |
| 15:28.04 | crashanddie | embedded: you asked "why does my phone freeze", I told you "what happens when you try to run a simple command like "whoami"" |
| 15:28.31 | embedded | ah ok |
| 15:28.32 | crashanddie | fabinader: and you're just trying to read the contents? |
| 15:28.39 | *** join/#maemo slaxium (~slaxium@tmo-105-25.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 15:28.41 | fabinader | Yeap |
| 15:28.55 | embedded | crashanddie: let me check |
| 15:29.34 | fabinader | crashanddie: Do you know if GConf in scratchbox works correctly, even if you call af-sb-init.sh start? |
| 15:29.55 | crashanddie | no idea mate, only used scratchbox for a couple months 3 years ago |
| 15:30.17 | crashanddie | should do though |
| 15:30.38 | fabinader | crashanddie: ok, thanks anyway :( |
| 15:31.18 | slaxium | maybe so can help me. can creat new share account any i click on new "settings" or "photos" quiets |
| 15:31.22 | embedded | crashanddie: eh but if my app is running under XTerm I not able to run any command until it's running, cause any attempt to open other instance of XTerm bring me to my app window |
| 15:31.27 | GAN900 | crashanddie, lol, I had a dream last night that I shaved my beard. |
| 15:32.10 | crashanddie | GAN900: the fact that we might have a real connection is strangely disturbing, good friend |
| 15:32.29 | crashanddie | GAN900: will have 40d on wednesday |
| 15:32.39 | GAN900 | Woo |
| 15:32.50 | GAN900 | Get some lenses. |
| 15:33.06 | crashanddie | also, I discovered an open source project that aims at providing low-budget DIY motion controllers |
| 15:33.33 | crashanddie | GAN900: check the video i sent to your desktop, seriously good stuff |
| 15:34.46 | pupnik | what about |
| 15:35.05 | crashanddie | for roughly $300 (or less if you use the n800/n810 in usb host mode) you can build a 2 axis head + timed trigger that will move the camera and take pictures at the speed you want/need |
| 15:35.05 | *** join/#maemo amjad1 (~amjadduba@92.99.159.111) |
| 15:35.19 | embedded | crashanddie: but if my app is running under XTerm I not able to run any command until it's running, cause any attempt to open other instance of XTerm bring me to my app window |
| 15:35.45 | crashanddie | pupnik: I highly recommend downloading the 720p version |
| 15:35.46 | crashanddie | http://rossching.com/eclectic-20/ |
| 15:36.03 | GAN900 | crashanddie, send it here. I don't feel like VNCing in. |
| 15:36.23 | crashanddie | GAN900: ^ |
| 15:36.39 | GAN900 | cehteh, Hildon Note?! |
| 15:36.43 | *** join/#maemo tg (irc@x-net.hu) |
| 15:36.51 | pupnik | I'll assume it's interesting cause it's you |
| 15:37.01 | *** join/#maemo wizkoder (~quassel@190.26.28.181) |
| 15:38.35 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-085-216-116-101.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 15:42.22 | *** join/#maemo aSIMULAtor (~me@dsl-hkibrasgw2-fef7de00-17.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 15:44.04 | *** join/#maemo mgedmin (~mg@Maemo/community/contributor/mgedmin) |
| 15:46.40 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 15:49.27 | *** join/#maemo julio (~julio@189.115.11.203) |
| 15:50.41 | *** join/#maemo ibrahimbb (unix@77.29.126.83) |
| 15:50.50 | *** join/#maemo Gadgetoid_mbp (~phil@cpc3-nrwh9-2-0-cust561.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 15:51.46 | *** part/#maemo julio (~julio@189.115.11.203) |
| 15:52.02 | *** join/#maemo cyborg-one (1000@212-178-8-142.broadband.tenet.odessa.ua) |
| 15:52.24 | *** join/#maemo sheepbat (~lev3k@c-98-238-227-32.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:53.06 | *** part/#maemo stevenhong (~xihong@124.240.125.27) |
| 15:53.07 | *** part/#maemo ibrahimbb (unix@77.29.126.83) |
| 15:57.24 | *** join/#maemo onion (~milang@tori.tal.org) |
| 15:57.43 | *** part/#maemo jo-erlend (~jo-erlend@ti221110a080-0463.bb.online.no) |
| 15:57.51 | *** join/#maemo jo-erlend (~jo-erlend@ti221110a080-0463.bb.online.no) |
| 15:58.28 | lcuk | mornin maemo |
| 15:58.55 | *** join/#maemo AmateurEngineer (~Ryan@e44.nat.iastate.edu) |
| 16:00.24 | jo-erlend | I thought I'd look into writing applications for Maemo in Python. Then I read about meego. Will that be very different, you think? |
| 16:01.02 | embedded | Is there some Maemo guru,please ? |
| 16:01.27 | arachnist | jo-erlend: qt will be the main/blessed toolkit/application framework, so you're better off learning PyQt4 |
| 16:01.59 | jo-erlend | arachnist, ah. Thanks. |
| 16:02.32 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (~murrayc@host-88-217-185-158.customer.m-online.net) |
| 16:02.48 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@gprs29.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 16:03.43 | embedded | hey guys is it possible that nobody here has developed an app for Maemo? |
| 16:03.59 | nomis | embedded: no. |
| 16:04.07 | Stskeeps | no, but asking a straight question is better |
| 16:04.40 | embedded | ehed I just asked before but now answers |
| 16:05.02 | embedded | except few works from crashanddie |
| 16:05.06 | embedded | words |
| 16:05.13 | nomis | embedded: sometimes even gurus don't know an answer. |
| 16:05.55 | lcuk | nomis, how did the fat discussion turn out last night |
| 16:06.14 | embedded | on 531 people? I think so |
| 16:06.15 | nomis | lcuk: I dunno, at some point I just went to bed. |
| 16:06.37 | lcuk | same here i had to plug in and snooze |
| 16:07.03 | lcuk | hey Stskeeps |
| 16:08.03 | *** join/#maemo aSIMULAtor (~me@Maemo/uxdesigner/aSIMULAtor) |
| 16:08.14 | *** join/#maemo angasule (~angasule@201.250.100.138) |
| 16:09.06 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~wazd@83.149.10.76) |
| 16:09.35 | wazd | Well, HTC HD2 is helluva spade |
| 16:09.59 | wazd | It's screen is larger than my whole e63 :) |
| 16:10.14 | *** join/#maemo Striki (~kos@strrev.php.is) |
| 16:11.23 | lcuk | wazd is that a bad thing? |
| 16:12.30 | wazd | Lcuk: well, I saw it earlier and it didn't look that huge for me) |
| 16:12.31 | wazd | lcuk: well, it's eyecatching :) |
| 16:13.26 | lcuk | not designed for people with small hands then |
| 16:14.18 | wazd | lcuk: I definitely don't have this problem) |
| 16:14.35 | lcuk | heh |
| 16:14.40 | lcuk | luke has nicked my n810 |
| 16:14.43 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@gprs29.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 16:15.33 | wazd | I actually wanted to buy it but it's even more expensive than n900 |
| 16:19.12 | *** join/#maemo FSCV1 (~SCV@189.141.5.41) |
| 16:22.10 | *** join/#maemo aloril (~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 16:23.24 | *** join/#maemo SWFu (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu) |
| 16:23.36 | RST38h | HD2 is nice |
| 16:23.39 | RST38h | But WinMo! |
| 16:24.25 | *** join/#maemo Flyser_ (~flyser@unaffiliated/flyser) |
| 16:25.55 | djkrikke | indeed |
| 16:26.00 | djkrikke | winMo is a big fail these days |
| 16:26.11 | *** join/#maemo wizzler (~quassel@190.27.126.155) |
| 16:30.49 | *** join/#maemo alecrim (~alecrim@189.2.128.130) |
| 16:36.08 | *** join/#maemo uhsf (~uhsf@modemcable228.151-57-74.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 16:38.30 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (~timeless@a88-115-8-36.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:38.30 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (~timeless@firefox/developer/timeless) |
| 16:39.46 | *** join/#maemo hcarrega (~hcarrega@a81-84-112-55.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 16:42.29 | *** join/#maemo DangerMaus (~eeeeeeeee@tuxhacker/loft306) |
| 16:46.58 | Aranel | needs some Photoshop assistance =) (for 1 logo and 2 buttons, not much - Maemo related) |
| 16:48.43 | nomis | Aranel: I can give you Gimp assistance. |
| 16:49.02 | Aranel | nomis: its better ^^ |
| 16:49.30 | lcuk | nomis, is your gimp suit back from the ccleaners already? |
| 16:49.37 | lcuk | and did they fix all the punctures? |
| 16:49.47 | nomis | lcuk: uh, what? |
| 16:49.56 | Aranel | nomis: I'm working on a unofficial support site for MeeGo/Maemo Turkey. Here what it looks like now: http://i47.tinypic.com/334k7dh.jpg |
| 16:49.56 | lcuk | :D just jesting |
| 16:50.16 | nomis | lcuk: oh right - took a while :) |
| 16:50.35 | lcuk | blame it on saturday |
| 16:51.19 | Aranel | nomis: I dont have any skills about graphics, so I could not do these logo and buttons. |
| 16:52.18 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 16:53.31 | nomis | Aranel: oh, sorry. I assumed you needed help in how-to-use gimp/photoshop. I won't start doing artwork for you, sorry. |
| 16:53.41 | *** join/#maemo Ian-- (~ian@78.133.23.235) |
| 16:53.52 | Aranel | nomis: =) np, thanks anyway. |
| 16:53.54 | mgedmin | wishes he could do artwork and other pretty things ... |
| 16:54.02 | mgedmin | likes pretty things |
| 16:55.43 | *** join/#maemo kik88 (~kik@92.33.137.237) |
| 16:56.16 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (~EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 16:57.04 | *** join/#maemo smaug (~chatzilla@cs181150024.pp.htv.fi) |
| 16:58.37 | *** join/#maemo BabelO (~fcr@unaffiliated/babelo) |
| 16:59.52 | RST38h | mgedmin: iPhone? |
| 17:00.12 | mgedmin | it is sort of pretty, yes |
| 17:00.19 | mgedmin | I like the slimness and minimalism of the design |
| 17:00.24 | mgedmin | I find the n900's screen prettier |
| 17:00.29 | mgedmin | tiny tiny pixels are so cute! |
| 17:00.44 | Lumpio- | small pixer kawaii? |
| 17:00.52 | arachnist | hehehe |
| 17:00.58 | mgedmin | remembers when he first saw an iPod and thought it was a medical device of some kind |
| 17:01.01 | arachnist | Lumpio-: s/kawaii/hentai/ ;) |
| 17:01.15 | mgedmin | arachnist, pixels, not pixies! |
| 17:01.17 | Lumpio- | I guess pixels can be perverted ¬_¬ |
| 17:01.27 | Lumpio- | Depends on what they're displaying |
| 17:01.46 | mgedmin | the all-white thing had some kind of sterile look |
| 17:01.57 | Shapeshifter | mhh! turning off 3G makes for like 3x more battery time |
| 17:02.42 | arachnist | Shapeshifter: turn off wifi scanning, and switch over to wifi only when you know you're in range |
| 17:02.46 | lcuk | mgedmin, ipod nano is edible monitoring device |
| 17:03.17 | mgedmin | would buy an ipod nano in an eyeblink, if it didn't refuse to work with his laptop |
| 17:07.24 | lcuk | wazd, what would a meego n900 redux look like in your eyes. using similar hardware capabilities but with your polished asthetics |
| 17:10.09 | red | polished n900 GUI yes please ;p |
| 17:10.52 | lcuk | red, we have ui polishing, lots of nice themes that people enjoy using |
| 17:11.09 | red | let me rephrase |
| 17:11.14 | lcuk | i was thinking outside |
| 17:11.26 | *** join/#maemo Erod (~Juno@unaffiliated/erod) |
| 17:11.39 | red | grid snapping, unified size for bookmarks, shortcuts and contacts on desktop, non-choppy animations |
| 17:12.36 | red | i can live without those things easily, but id be a happy camper if it was like that ;) |
| 17:13.24 | lcuk | didnt i see a community grid snapping tool |
| 17:14.11 | *** join/#maemo RST38bis (~user@NAT-81-25-53-57.ultranet.ru) |
| 17:14.40 | RST38h | Ok, anyone would like to talk me away from buying BH-905 headphones? |
| 17:14.43 | RST38h | RST38bis: test |
| 17:14.58 | lcuk | http://maemocentral.com/2010/02/25/n900-homescreen-setup-ideas-tricks/ |
| 17:15.03 | lcuk | red ^^ |
| 17:15.58 | lcuk | RST38h, buy the headphones if you want them, otherwise dont |
| 17:16.31 | RST38h | lcuk: nah, this will not work, either way =) |
| 17:16.41 | lcuk | lol |
| 17:16.45 | lcuk | what do you like about them |
| 17:17.22 | RST38h | real headphones, should be comfortable, bt, noise cancelling |
| 17:17.40 | *** join/#maemo dnaumov (~god@dsl-trebrasgw2-fe5ff900-211.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:17.57 | lcuk | are those attributes of the bh-905s? |
| 17:18.08 | *** join/#maemo alex-weej (~alex@cpc8-acto1-2-0-cust359.know.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 17:20.15 | mgedmin | afaiu the n900 has grid-snapping out of the box in latter firmwares, only the grid is *tiny* |
| 17:20.46 | RST38h | mgedmin: there is a secret to that ;) |
| 17:20.49 | RST38h | lcuk: yes |
| 17:21.00 | mgedmin | secret? ooh, do tell! |
| 17:24.06 | RST38h | mgedmin: there is a config file with desktop settings, you set snap-grid step there. I have mine set to 10 or something |
| 17:24.33 | RST38h | will tell you name ina second |
| 17:24.48 | *** part/#maemo DangerMaus (~eeeeeeeee@tuxhacker/loft306) |
| 17:24.57 | mgedmin | it's not in gconf. why isn't it in gconf?? |
| 17:26.05 | *** join/#maemo tgalal_ (~tarek@41.196.100.216) |
| 17:26.56 | RST38h | mgedmin: /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini |
| 17:27.05 | mgedmin | really? |
| 17:27.09 | mgedmin | transitions? |
| 17:27.42 | mgedmin | finds the original bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5372 |
| 17:27.43 | povbot | Bug 5372: Can't easily align desktop widgets (snap to position) on home screens |
| 17:28.06 | mgedmin | whoa, a 4x4 grid! |
| 17:28.26 | RST38h | hehe, yes, it makes sense to decrease swap to let you have 4 rows of icons |
| 17:28.31 | RST38h | s/swap/step |
| 17:28.34 | mgedmin | anyway, to put things in perspective, I find the current fine grid makes things at least 4x better than no grid at all |
| 17:32.11 | *** join/#maemo RST38bis (~user@NAT-81-25-53-57.ultranet.ru) |
| 17:32.41 | *** join/#maemo ferulo (~fherrera@58.118.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 17:33.01 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (~EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 17:33.29 | *** join/#maemo _Elwood_ (~elwood@unaffiliated/-elwood-/x-7688307) |
| 17:34.26 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (~EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 17:35.11 | *** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@gprs-prointernet-ffb16a00-205.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:41.59 | *** join/#maemo victorpoluceno (~victorpol@187.7.26.17) |
| 17:42.48 | *** join/#maemo mmgcs (~michael@pool-98-119-91-254.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 17:49.34 | *** join/#maemo kkito (~offs@13.Red-88-1-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 17:52.43 | *** join/#maemo zogg_ (~zoggrules@bzq-79-182-6-198.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 17:56.01 | pronto | andrei1089: you around? |
| 17:57.13 | ptl | I've just seen that there is a repository for java on Maemo 4 |
| 17:57.19 | lcuk | gah @ my nipple being wonky |
| 17:57.25 | ptl | why there is not such a repository for Maemo 5? |
| 17:57.45 | Lumpio- | Java D: |
| 17:58.02 | villager | perhaps someone realized that java sucks in the meantime |
| 17:58.10 | *** join/#maemo booiiing (booiiing@cl-959.dus-01.de.sixxs.net) |
| 17:58.22 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi) |
| 17:59.01 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 18:00.01 | *** join/#maemo wormsxulla (chatzill@unaffiliated/wormsxulla) |
| 18:01.24 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu_N800 (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 18:03.15 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@2a01:e35:243c:9250:223:54ff:fe69:226e) |
| 18:04.30 | mgedmin | many things that suck have large followings *cough*qt*cough* |
| 18:06.03 | lcuk | mgedmin, nothing new, sasha gray turned it into a career |
| 18:07.25 | mgedmin | who? |
| 18:07.59 | *** join/#maemo aspidites (~aspidites@68.89.210.32) |
| 18:08.10 | lcuk | mgedmin, dont search, it was a crude reference |
| 18:09.39 | aspidites | hates captcha. 30+ attempts and still can't register at ovi... |
| 18:10.58 | jaska | youre a machine! |
| 18:11.16 | aspidites | apparently. |
| 18:11.48 | *** join/#maemo Troy54 (~Troy54@86-41-92-106-dynamic.b-ras2.chf.cork.eircom.net) |
| 18:13.35 | aspidites | wow. finally worked. apparently registering from store.ovi.com is broken but can be done via ovi.com |
| 18:16.55 | *** join/#maemo RST38bis (~user@NAT-81-25-53-57.ultranet.ru) |
| 18:19.20 | aspidites | has anyone been able to download from ovi today? i click "continue" but it still won't let me download angry birds |
| 18:19.26 | cehteh | new maemo mapper, nice .. but where does it store the tiles? |
| 18:19.39 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (~EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 18:19.52 | RST38h | cehteh: on te perforated tape,judging from update speed |
| 18:20.01 | cehteh | hehe |
| 18:20.15 | cehteh | yes .. but i didnt found the papertrail yet |
| 18:20.29 | *** join/#maemo strcpy (~Hamid@213.207.217.35) |
| 18:20.30 | cehteh | done lsof and shows nothing |
| 18:20.33 | pupnik | what is cool this week |
| 18:23.38 | aspidites | hmm...apparently I can't download anything period on my browser... |
| 18:23.59 | strcpy | Anybody willing to help me about this broken apt on n900 ? http://pastebin.com/MBGNC8FC |
| 18:24.23 | strcpy | non of common fixes worked for me |
| 18:24.46 | mgedmin | strcpy, sudo vim /var/lib/dpkg/info/samba-common.postinst |
| 18:24.55 | mgedmin | add a line after the #!/bin/sh saying 'set -x' |
| 18:25.13 | strcpy | let me try it. thank you :) |
| 18:25.18 | mgedmin | then run 'sudo dpkg --configure -a' and see what command in the script produces that error message |
| 18:25.35 | mgedmin | that may be sufficient to figure out what's wrong and maybe file a bug report |
| 18:25.44 | RST38h | pupnik: LED pattern editor |
| 18:25.48 | RST38h | pupnik: rules pretty hard |
| 18:25.48 | cehteh | RST38h: ah it shares the cache with maep .. MyDocs/.maps |
| 18:25.57 | cehteh | yes |
| 18:25.58 | RST38h | cehteh: isn't it a good thing? |
| 18:26.02 | mgedmin | the unified maemo map tile cache! yay |
| 18:26.05 | strcpy | it appeard while connection dropped in middle of downloading samba by apt |
| 18:26.12 | cehteh | yes it is .. i just wanted to find out |
| 18:26.29 | cehteh | RST38h: the pattern editor is nice, but still lacks a lot features |
| 18:26.50 | cehteh | (and hey .. released after i handcoded all my favorite patterns duh! :P) |
| 18:26.51 | mgedmin | strcpy, interesting, but if the deb were incomplete, apt/dpkg wouldn't think you had samba already half-installed, I think |
| 18:27.10 | mgedmin | strcpy, alternatively you may want to try sudo apt-get install samba-common --reinstall |
| 18:27.14 | RST38h | cehteh: has got all I need to paint IM and missed calls different colors =) |
| 18:27.47 | strcpy | second workaround already tried ~> no luck |
| 18:27.53 | cehteh | you cant create new patterns with it and (i didnt found out at least) how to add new commands to the list |
| 18:28.22 | *** join/#maemo t-tan (~tanner@e183148199.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:28.41 | cehteh | and my patterns have a a minimum brightness of 1 instead 0 .. thats bit harder to code because pauses cant just decrement n times |
| 18:28.54 | strcpy | mgedmin: should I leave default set -e ? |
| 18:28.57 | cehteh | the charging/on/charged patterns i mean |
| 18:29.03 | mgedmin | strcpy, yes |
| 18:29.15 | cehteh | i like it glowing in the night, very dimly, just that one can locate the device |
| 18:29.32 | aspidites | . seems to only be wifi that has the problem. anyone else experiencing wifi download issues on n900? |
| 18:29.54 | *** join/#maemo richieeee72 (~richard@host86-156-152-171.range86-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:29.58 | SWFu64 | Anyone ever get that update in the UK? |
| 18:30.07 | cehteh | still not? |
| 18:30.08 | SWFu64 | Nothing for me |
| 18:30.36 | cehteh | i thought the snow has melted and the tunnel trains go again ... |
| 18:30.44 | strcpy | mgedmin: result : http://pastebin.com/gZ7neUDz |
| 18:30.49 | cehteh | but the intatnet pipes are still frozen :P |
| 18:31.00 | SWFu64 | I guess they are not bothering, maybe theres a big update coming shortly |
| 18:31.09 | mgedmin | strcpy, so, no change? |
| 18:31.13 | strcpy | nop |
| 18:31.14 | mgedmin | hey, what does the script itself look like? |
| 18:31.18 | cehteh | ok ... /me sucking osm maps like mad now |
| 18:31.19 | strcpy | let me try apt-gt update again |
| 18:31.21 | mgedmin | maybe it starts with #!/usr/bin/bash? |
| 18:31.26 | mgedmin | maybe you don't have bash installed? |
| 18:31.30 | richieeee72 | SWFu64: Did Nokia ever say anything official about missing the UK update? |
| 18:31.38 | mgedmin | strcpy, ^ |
| 18:31.45 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi) |
| 18:31.50 | SWFu64 | Not that I know of. |
| 18:32.10 | strcpy | DarkCell:~# head /var/lib/dpkg/info/samba-common.postinst |
| 18:32.10 | strcpy | #!/bin/sh |
| 18:32.10 | strcpy | # |
| 18:32.10 | strcpy | set -x |
| 18:32.10 | strcpy | set -e |
| 18:32.45 | mgedmin | weird |
| 18:32.59 | strcpy | indeed ! I`m lost |
| 18:33.07 | mgedmin | is grasping straws now |
| 18:33.15 | mgedmin | maybe the file has CR LF line endings? |
| 18:33.22 | strcpy | I had one idea , maybe it work ? manualy dowloading broken package and placing in apt temp folder? |
| 18:33.27 | pupnik | ty RST38h |
| 18:33.33 | mgedmin | "dpkg (subprocess): unable to execute post-installation script: No such file or directory" |
| 18:34.02 | mgedmin | seems to imply that either /var/lib/dpkg/info/samba-common.postinst doesn't exist or /bin/sh doesn't exist |
| 18:34.02 | *** join/#maemo marcels (~marcels@84.26.166.31) |
| 18:34.10 | strcpy | mgedmin: file is missing but donnow why apt is not downloading it again :/ |
| 18:34.18 | mgedmin | which file is missing? |
| 18:34.32 | RST38h | pupnik: check date widget as well, same as calendar widget but without the todo shit |
| 18:35.25 | strcpy | mgedmin: both exist |
| 18:35.33 | strcpy | I`m over ssh already |
| 18:35.39 | mgedmin | strcpy, and the line endings? |
| 18:35.57 | strcpy | optify "usr/share/doc/samba-common" |
| 18:36.10 | strcpy | ah CLRF .. |
| 18:36.13 | strcpy | let me chk |
| 18:37.40 | strcpy | all seems ok |
| 18:38.06 | strcpy | isn`t is a conflict between dev & extra repositories? |
| 18:38.20 | *** join/#maemo BoRjU (~Muttley@95.66.47.246) |
| 18:39.41 | mgedmin | I'm baffled by that error |
| 18:40.13 | mgedmin | brute force? sudo apt-get remove samba-common; sudo apt-get install samba? |
| 18:40.20 | strcpy | isn`t there any trick to atucally reset apt ? |
| 18:40.36 | mgedmin | define "reset apt" |
| 18:41.01 | mgedmin | actually, you don't want to apt-get install samba, you want smbclient |
| 18:41.50 | strcpy | there seems to be some progress here :) let me pastebin |
| 18:41.57 | *** join/#maemo aol (~aol@nblzone-225-22.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 18:42.19 | strcpy | http://pastebin.com/g6YquWqr |
| 18:42.22 | mgedmin | strcpy, IT IS WINDOWS LINE ENDINGS! |
| 18:42.31 | mgedmin | I just downloaded http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/s/samba/samba-common_3.4.3-maemo2_all.deb |
| 18:42.33 | mgedmin | and looked inside |
| 18:42.36 | aol | c question ... what is the correct way to define a constant char* in a header file ? |
| 18:42.45 | mgedmin | debian/postinst starts with "#!/bin/sh\x0D\x0A" |
| 18:42.55 | mgedmin | a broken package |
| 18:43.04 | mgedmin | contact the uploader, complain, tell him/her to fix it |
| 18:43.06 | strcpy | so wtf I've done wrong here ?! |
| 18:43.10 | aol | const char* my_const_string = "String"; does not work in gcc if it's in header file |
| 18:43.19 | strcpy | I fixed that here, |
| 18:43.23 | mgedmin | strcpy, nothing, the package is broken |
| 18:43.33 | mgedmin | wait, let me see your pastebin |
| 18:43.58 | strcpy | re-editing with nano/vim fix that |
| 18:44.15 | mgedmin | if you :set ff=unix before saving, yes |
| 18:44.23 | mgedmin | nano I don't think touches line endings at all? |
| 18:44.49 | mgedmin | postrm is also buggy |
| 18:44.53 | mgedmin | #!/bin/sh -e" |
| 18:44.59 | mgedmin | busybox sh doesn't like that |
| 18:45.01 | pronto | does anyone know how to use the .plist handbrake file for vidio encoding with handbrake cli,. the plist from http://wiki.maemo.org/Ripping_DVDs_with_Handbrake |
| 18:45.12 | mgedmin | should be changed to two lines: "#!/bin/sh" and "set -e" |
| 18:45.38 | strcpy | is already as above |
| 18:45.50 | strcpy | after I inserted your first hint |
| 18:46.06 | mgedmin | sometimes wishes all maemo packages were kept in revision control in a uniform manner, and he had commit rights |
| 18:46.43 | mgedmin | strcpy, I was talking about postrm now -- the cause for "/bin/sh: illegal option -" and "subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 2" |
| 18:50.12 | *** join/#maemo _Lucretia_ (~munkee@pdpc/supporter/active/lucretia) |
| 18:51.04 | mgedmin | emails the maintainer |
| 18:51.11 | strcpy | mgedmin: do you know about networking lags of n900 too? while wifi is set to it`s default powe-saving, wifi is actually broken for downloading/ssh/... but setting it to less power saving or disabling that, fix it |
| 18:51.22 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@93-35-147-212.ip55.fastwebnet.it) |
| 18:51.24 | ptl | huahuaha |
| 18:51.25 | strcpy | thanks for help about apt btw |
| 18:51.33 | mgedmin | people claim it's wifi accesspoints not following the 802.11whatever spec correctly |
| 18:53.13 | *** join/#maemo wulansari (~SECRETMAN@95.66.43.62) |
| 18:53.44 | RST38h | BTW does N900 support 802.11n? |
| 18:53.50 | redeeman | no |
| 18:53.51 | cehteh | no |
| 18:53.53 | RST38h | ok |
| 18:54.00 | jacekowski | no? |
| 18:54.03 | mgedmin | no |
| 18:54.08 | mgedmin | my ap doesn't either |
| 18:54.09 | jacekowski | are you sure |
| 18:54.13 | mgedmin | and my laptop |
| 18:54.47 | mgedmin | wikipedia says 802.11b/g only |
| 18:55.03 | *** join/#maemo zogg_ (~zoggrules@bzq-79-182-6-198.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 18:55.06 | strcpy | no jacekowski, 802.11n is not supported |
| 18:55.24 | strcpy | the chip they used is not supporting it |
| 18:55.45 | cehteh | not even a :/ |
| 18:55.54 | redeeman | nobody uses a |
| 18:55.57 | redeeman | everyone uses g |
| 18:55.57 | nid0 | thank god, 802.11a needs to die |
| 18:56.00 | redeeman | so who cares |
| 18:56.01 | nid0 | 10 years ago, ideally. |
| 18:56.04 | strcpy | non of them are required in common uses IMO |
| 18:56.18 | cehteh | mhm .. and running at 600Mhz for extended time, it gets quite warm now |
| 18:56.27 | cehteh | nid0: huh? a is cool |
| 18:56.29 | strcpy | and about N , who really needs that bandwidth on a phone ?! |
| 18:57.12 | cehteh | all people use 2Ghz .. 5Ghz is free :) |
| 18:57.15 | nid0 | nokia probably didnt want to put a draft version into something like a mass production phone anyway |
| 18:57.22 | RST38h | does |
| 18:57.25 | mgedmin | what's wrong with 802.11a? |
| 18:57.29 | nid0 | much better to wait till the spec's actually finalised before using it |
| 18:57.35 | nid0 | whats wrong with it? its sucks? |
| 18:57.38 | RST38h | mgedmin: too short range |
| 18:57.49 | RST38h | mgedmin: way too short |
| 18:57.52 | nid0 | terrible range, huge power usage |
| 18:57.53 | mgedmin | what, like 30 cm? |
| 18:58.04 | RST38h | mgedmin: not that bad, more like 10m |
| 18:58.29 | mgedmin | learned something new today |
| 18:58.57 | inz | mgedmin, do you feel more pain now? |
| 18:59.08 | mgedmin | no? |
| 18:59.35 | pupnik | ugh tefrrible range. who forced that? EU government? |
| 18:59.39 | *** join/#maemo mschr (~mschr@0x5da7e7f2.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1105.srnqu1.customer.tele.dk) |
| 18:59.39 | *** join/#maemo homeasvs__ (~thomas@107.249-246-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 19:00.02 | nid0 | no, its just a limitation of the standard. a was an olllld version of g, and was replaced by g because it was shit, effectively |
| 19:00.56 | inz | mgedmin, in finnish we use "knowledge brings pain" instead of "ignorance is a bliss" |
| 19:00.56 | mgedmin | learned another new thing today |
| 19:00.56 | strcpy | btw, any progress on packet-injection on wifi ? |
| 19:00.56 | inz | mgedmin, =) |
| 19:01.07 | strcpy | everyone is missing it :) |
| 19:01.20 | mgedmin | if ignorance is bliss then why aren't more people happy? |
| 19:01.36 | nid0 | dumb people think theyre smart |
| 19:07.01 | *** join/#maemo wazd (~wazd@188.123.241.73) |
| 19:07.37 | RST38h | nid0: and this makes them unhappy! |
| 19:07.40 | RST38h | cheers. |
| 19:08.39 | RST38h | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:09.02 | RST38h | http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/02/500x_lightbooks.jpg |
| 19:09.36 | *** join/#maemo wizkoder (~quassel@190.27.126.155) |
| 19:11.26 | *** join/#maemo alecrim (~alecrim@189.2.128.130) |
| 19:14.07 | *** join/#maemo zogg_ (~zoggrules@bzq-79-182-6-198.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 19:14.23 | *** join/#maemo trofi (~slyfox@93.84.243.210) |
| 19:14.57 | *** join/#maemo amjad1 (~hp@92.99.159.111) |
| 19:15.17 | mgedmin | what the? |
| 19:15.41 | mgedmin | that doesn't look like a nice way to treat books |
| 19:16.01 | *** join/#maemo _Elwood_ (~elwood@unaffiliated/-elwood-/x-7688307) |
| 19:16.08 | RST38h | it is done by performance artists |
| 19:16.34 | RST38h | you have ot be thankful there is no performance artist shitting at these books, on camera |
| 19:16.46 | *** join/#maemo zap (~zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net) |
| 19:17.38 | mgedmin | 802.11a versus 802.11bgn in large conferences: http://www.tummy.com/Community/Articles/pycon2010-network/ |
| 19:17.58 | pupnik | "Things are starting to pad out a little, even though general devs donât have devices yet; weâve got Picodrive for Genesis emulation, Hatari for Atari ST, UAE for Amiga, MAME, Vice for Commodore 64, and a really groovy port of DosBox with full touchscreen mouse emulation, for instance. Weâve got Abiword built in, along with some little utils â djwillis crammed quite a bit into that firmware space! Some ports are coming along .. Quake 1, 2, |
| 19:18.26 | *** join/#maemo jfk_ (~jfk@c209229.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 19:20.22 | nid0 | mgedmin, conferences in big open rooms and tons of access points but in an area flooded with other networks as well are about the only practical use of a |
| 19:20.28 | *** join/#maemo Fruktsoda (~EchoB@unaffiliated/fruktsoda) |
| 19:20.35 | *** part/#maemo Fruktsoda (~EchoB@unaffiliated/fruktsoda) |
| 19:22.43 | jebba | oh noes! the usb/recharge jack on my main n900 is now broke. doh. |
| 19:22.54 | mgedmin | ouch |
| 19:23.07 | Arif_ | get an external charger =P |
| 19:23.47 | jebba | guess i'll use that one for fedora since i can't recharge it anyway, heh |
| 19:25.17 | Arif_ | I found another bug \o/ |
| 19:25.41 | Arif_ | radios stop playing after you hear the low battery sound |
| 19:25.42 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@62.219.120.20) |
| 19:25.43 | Arif_ | ;9 |
| 19:25.45 | Arif_ | ;( |
| 19:27.08 | pupnik | maybe that is useful |
| 19:29.26 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@starfury.spearlink.com) |
| 19:30.07 | Arif_ | no it's not |
| 19:31.14 | pupnik | jebba: it might still pickup charge even if loose |
| 19:31.34 | pupnik | that cable with the lever arm is a serious error |
| 19:32.34 | *** join/#maemo krum_ (~krum@212.1.245.21) |
| 19:33.55 | jebba | pupnik, well it is not level now (like 150° instead of 180°) and plugging it in, it doesn't recharge. |
| 19:34.57 | pupnik | ow. did you trip over the cord? |
| 19:37.38 | *** join/#maemo Gadgetoid_mbp (~phil@cpc3-nrwh9-2-0-cust561.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 19:38.54 | ShadowJK | another charging port breaks... fun :/ |
| 19:39.06 | Stskeeps | on n900? |
| 19:39.29 | djkrikke | Arif_, when do you get the low battery warning? At what percentage? |
| 19:39.46 | *** join/#maemo Vulcanis_ (~CBabbage@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 19:39.58 | adalal | what is softpoweroff? |
| 19:40.32 | Arif_ | djkrikke, there's a battery bar and no % :o |
| 19:40.41 | djkrikke | oh i see |
| 19:40.49 | djkrikke | I use the desktop command widget |
| 19:40.52 | djkrikke | so I can get the percentage |
| 19:41.22 | Arif_ | I'm not that concerned |
| 19:41.51 | djkrikke | but when do you get the warning then, I suppose when the battery bar get's empty :) |
| 19:42.07 | djkrikke | because I read, if things go wrong and the battery really dies, you have to use a desktop charger. |
| 19:42.09 | Arif_ | you usually get a low battery warning when the battery is, well......low |
| 19:42.12 | Arif_ | =P |
| 19:42.12 | djkrikke | is that still correct anyway? |
| 19:42.16 | MohammadAG | <djkrikke> Arif_, when do you get the low battery warning? At what percentage? |
| 19:42.21 | MohammadAG | 5mAh |
| 19:42.31 | djkrikke | allright MohammadAG |
| 19:42.41 | ShadowJK | nah it justs starts saying 5mAh after battery low |
| 19:42.43 | adalal | can anyone tell me what the soft poweroff option means? |
| 19:42.54 | ShadowJK | jumps from whatever to exactly 5 :) |
| 19:43.04 | MohammadAG | lol |
| 19:43.13 | djkrikke | ShadowJK, maybe it's for saving the battery? |
| 19:43.16 | MohammadAG | usually it goes down by 5 here |
| 19:43.20 | djkrikke | so It doesn't really get empty |
| 19:43.31 | MohammadAG | 20-15-5-machine-gun-ding |
| 19:43.47 | ShadowJK | Yes of course |
| 19:43.55 | Arif_ | charges his battery :P |
| 19:43.57 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 19:44.10 | MohammadAG | needs to get a new SIM |
| 19:44.13 | djkrikke | ShadowJK, is that "bug" still in there? That it's possible you can't charge it anymore after going totally empty? |
| 19:44.34 | MohammadAG | N900 keeps saying no sim, it's kind of worn out (the sim) |
| 19:44.48 | ShadowJK | Only if you hosed the os, I think. |
| 19:45.23 | djkrikke | Like in an upgrade or something.. |
| 19:45.25 | ShadowJK | or if you try something silly like charge from an usb port (use the wall charger) |
| 19:45.35 | *** join/#maemo DHR (~hugh@CPE00606767ed59-CM000f9fa81660.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 19:45.53 | Arif_ | usually charges from an USB port |
| 19:46.19 | djkrikke | what's wrong with usb |
| 19:46.22 | ShadowJK | iirc low battery warning comes at about 3.5Volt and the software shuts down before 3.2Volt |
| 19:46.28 | MohammadAG | is charging from a USB atm (PS3 PSU rocks!) |
| 19:47.05 | ShadowJK | djkrikke, it requires negotiation with the host device, which requires the n900 to turn on, which requires power in the battery |
| 19:47.28 | djkrikke | ooh I see |
| 19:47.34 | ShadowJK | plus it's weak compared to wall charger |
| 19:47.35 | djkrikke | so charging an empty device with usb is going to give problems :) |
| 19:47.43 | *** join/#maemo vanadismobile (~user@gprs21.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 19:47.52 | Arif_ | what about a car charger |
| 19:47.55 | Lumpio- | It should work if done properly |
| 19:48.04 | Lumpio- | The current you can draw from USB without negotiation should be enough to kickstart the process |
| 19:48.15 | MohammadAG | Arif_, afaik car chargers don't work (if they're USB based) |
| 19:48.26 | MohammadAG | I use the wall charger in the car :) |
| 19:48.26 | Arif_ | they don't? |
| 19:48.32 | Arif_ | how do I charge my phone in the car then! |
| 19:48.37 | MohammadAG | wall charger :) |
| 19:48.51 | Lumpio- | ...there should be no difference between a car and a wall charger |
| 19:48.55 | Lumpio- | They're both likely dumb devices |
| 19:48.55 | Arif_ | normal cars don't have a wall socket thing :P |
| 19:49.21 | MohammadAG | Arif_, http://i48.tinypic.com/2nh106r.jpg |
| 19:49.27 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:49.30 | MohammadAG | :) |
| 19:49.51 | Arif_ | :huh: |
| 19:49.51 | MohammadAG | Use it for all my devices |
| 19:49.57 | RST38h | moo javispedro |
| 19:50.02 | javispedro | moo |
| 19:50.09 | Lumpio- | That's just ginormous. |
| 19:50.17 | *** join/#maemo Flandry (~quassel@c-71-192-162-102.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 19:50.19 | Lumpio- | And probably incredibly inefficient as well |
| 19:50.24 | javispedro | finally got my n900 back, and now half the albumart is gone |
| 19:50.37 | Lumpio- | Why would you want to stop the voltage up to 110/220V only to step it down immediately afterwards D: |
| 19:50.37 | mgedmin | has a thing like that, only it converts the car's 12V into USB |
| 19:50.57 | javispedro | the entire albumart infrastructure seems to be as fragile as a windows 3.1 .ini file . |
| 19:51.08 | MohammadAG | mgedmin, it has a USB port too, but that doesn't work with the N900 |
| 19:51.11 | RST38h | javispedro: tracker. |
| 19:51.27 | javispedro | RST38h: yeah I'm already tackling it. |
| 19:51.48 | Flandry | Is there a way to discover the actual uploader for an app in the repositories? |
| 19:51.49 | javispedro | seems it fails to copy stuff from .mediaartlocal to ~/.cache folders if they exist. |
| 19:51.57 | *** join/#maemo _Elwood_ (~elwood@unaffiliated/-elwood-/x-7688307) |
| 19:52.05 | RST38h | javispedro: more like, kill it for good and add a desktop button that says "rescan all media" |
| 19:52.11 | Flandry | ha |
| 19:52.21 | javispedro | and the stuff to read cover.jpg files from directories is just not implemented in anything other than .mp3 files. |
| 19:52.31 | MohammadAG | <Lumpio-> Why would you want to stop the voltage up to 110/220V only to step it down immediately afterwards D: / good point |
| 19:52.51 | javispedro | Flandry: iirc it's listed in te packages interfaces. |
| 19:52.54 | RST38h | javispedro: well, tracker is brought to you by the same guy who brought modest |
| 19:52.56 | RST38h | snickers |
| 19:53.03 | Flandry | MohammadAG: easier to change voltages with AC |
| 19:53.09 | mgedmin | kinda likes modest |
| 19:53.11 | Lumpio- | s/stop/step/ even |
| 19:53.16 | Flandry | don't know if that's a reason though |
| 19:53.18 | mgedmin | is kinda suspicious towards tracker |
| 19:53.20 | javispedro | Flandry: and also that cauldron list has that info |
| 19:53.28 | RST38h | mgedmin: I am sure it is Stockholm syndrome |
| 19:53.33 | ShadowJK | Vme uses the dc-10 car charger, works fine |
| 19:53.34 | Flandry | cauldron list? |
| 19:53.56 | javispedro | Flandry: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/ |
| 19:54.01 | ShadowJK | any car charger that follows the usb charging spec should be fine (but alot of crappy doesn't) |
| 19:54.08 | mgedmin | RST38h, no, my using Mutt on a dual-core laptop could be Stockholm syndrome |
| 19:54.22 | RST38h | mgedmin: PINE. And PICO. |
| 19:54.23 | MohammadAG | ShadowJK, Nokia's chargers work? |
| 19:54.30 | MohammadAG | read some posts on tmo that they don't |
| 19:54.36 | ShadowJK | lol? |
| 19:54.44 | javispedro | prepares to file the appropiate bugs... |
| 19:55.03 | mgedmin | RST38h, blasphemy! |
| 19:55.24 | mgedmin | oh, there goes my "no flame wars on irc" resolution again... |
| 19:55.44 | RST38h | Weird shit: AdBlocker+ icon changed from red to green |
| 19:55.44 | Flandry | heh |
| 19:56.10 | pupnik | evenin Flandry |
| 19:56.23 | Flandry | Hi pupnik |
| 19:56.34 | Flandry | So here's the problem. Says here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_i386/libpoppler-qt4-dev/0.12.2-2maemo0/ |
| 19:57.41 | strcpy | isn`t there anything ported to Maemo for GSM field testing ? like FTD for Symbian.. |
| 19:57.42 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (~infidel20@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 19:57.45 | Flandry | that "Loic Minier" is the maintainer, and that seems to coincide with the user information, but upon emailing Loic i was told that (s)he is not the maintainer for Maemo version |
| 19:58.14 | strcpy | current RFmon in extra is just covering very basic and useless info |
| 19:58.20 | ShadowJK | strcpy: no such (documented) access to the modem |
| 19:58.48 | strcpy | means no luck for developers unless they RE the firmware? |
| 19:59.06 | *** join/#maemo pillar (~pillar15@cs181189224.pp.htv.fi) |
| 19:59.28 | ShadowJK | probably |
| 19:59.32 | Flandry | So i can't figure out who to contact to get a dependencies problem fixed |
| 20:00.05 | javispedro | Flandry: what's the source package name? |
| 20:00.10 | javispedro | "poppler"? |
| 20:00.56 | lcuk | javispedro, just the person |
| 20:00.58 | lcuk | hiya |
| 20:01.03 | Flandry | Good question |
| 20:01.08 | Flandry | Let me check |
| 20:01.16 | javispedro | evening lcuk |
| 20:01.18 | *** join/#maemo pH5 (~ph5@e178198007.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:01.23 | cehteh | 2.1G.maps/OpenStreetMap I ... just takes time to fill up the flash :P |
| 20:01.26 | MohammadAG | Tsunami hits Marquesas Island |
| 20:01.41 | mgedmin | Flandry, if the debian/control file lies about the maintainer, check debian/changelog |
| 20:02.07 | adalal | can anyone tell me what soft poweroff means? |
| 20:02.46 | lcuk | :( @ tsunami |
| 20:02.59 | javispedro | debian says "Poppler". |
| 20:03.20 | javispedro | Flandry: thus cauldron says the latest uploader of poppler is "tanner" |
| 20:03.46 | cehteh | the parents of my wife live in valparaiso and send some pics |
| 20:03.58 | Flandry | Ah, thanks |
| 20:04.27 | Flandry | Was still trying to figure out the necessary apt and dpkg commands |
| 20:04.29 | cehteh | luckily nothing too dramatic happend, just some tumbled furniture, pictures fallen of the walls and some cracks in the walls |
| 20:06.23 | javispedro | Flandry: sorry; actually, qwerty12 uploaded the 0.12.2-2maemo0 version |
| 20:06.33 | javispedro | the other uploaders disabled qt4 support from what I read here |
| 20:06.55 | javispedro | what a mess. |
| 20:06.59 | Flandry | Yes |
| 20:07.13 | Flandry | It can't be installed without forcing |
| 20:07.47 | GAN900 | cehteh, no more Hildon Note! :P |
| 20:07.51 | *** join/#maemo ikke-t1 (~itengval@xdsl-205-40.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 20:08.06 | Flandry | So qwerty's the one to fix that i guess? |
| 20:08.08 | RST38h | Are there any Class6 16GB microSDHCs? |
| 20:08.09 | Arif_ | hm |
| 20:08.13 | RST38h | Or am I missing something? |
| 20:08.15 | Arif_ | I can't find a DC-6 charger on DX |
| 20:08.48 | javispedro | Flandry: I'd ask tanner, just because he's the last one. |
| 20:09.25 | javispedro | s/last one/more recent one |
| 20:09.26 | javispedro | bbl |
| 20:09.37 | Flandry | May i ask how you found that? I'm doing a site search with google and not coming up with that |
| 20:12.21 | *** join/#maemo ScribbleJ (~ScribbleJ@99-35-164-204.lightspeed.dwgvil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:12.47 | Arif_ | hmm |
| 20:12.52 | Arif_ | what was the N900's battery ? |
| 20:12.58 | mgedmin | flickr sharing plugin bug: "quotes" in your title end up shown as " on the web |
| 20:13.42 | MohammadAG | Arif_, BL-5J |
| 20:13.48 | Arif_ | ah |
| 20:13.51 | Arif_ | thanks =} |
| 20:14.09 | MohammadAG | np :) |
| 20:15.24 | Arif_ | http://cgi.ebay.nl/DESKTOP-BATTERY-CHARGER-FOR-NOKIA-BL-5J-5800-N900-X6-UK_W0QQitemZ200442859338QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhoneAccessories_MobilePhoneChargers?hash=item2eab534f4a |
| 20:15.27 | Arif_ | so I could use this one? |
| 20:15.33 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (~hannes@80-121-100-238.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 20:16.14 | MohammadAG | Arif_, only 2 pounds?! |
| 20:16.24 | Arif_ | 3 |
| 20:16.25 | Arif_ | :P |
| 20:16.51 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~pupnik@82.113.106.29) |
| 20:16.59 | MohammadAG | 2.85 :P |
| 20:17.15 | MohammadAG | but still, wouldn't it affect the battery? |
| 20:17.44 | MohammadAG | I have two batteries, and charging them 1 by 1 isn't the easiest way |
| 20:18.34 | RST38h | Ok, anyone knows what is the current story on N900 memory card performance? |
| 20:18.44 | RST38h | Does it matter if I buy class2, class4, or class6 card? |
| 20:19.05 | Arif_ | what are you going to do with it |
| 20:19.26 | RST38h | access it? |
| 20:19.33 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi) |
| 20:19.41 | Arif_ | store pr0n? |
| 20:19.43 | Arif_ | record videos? |
| 20:19.48 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: My cheap 1G card gets over 12M/s read |
| 20:19.56 | Arif_ | I'd go for class 2 |
| 20:20.04 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: reading from /dev/mmcblk[01] I get >27M/s |
| 20:20.11 | SpeedEvil | at the same time with dd |
| 20:20.14 | RST38h | SpeedEvil: how about writing? |
| 20:20.15 | Arif_ | they just want to screw you over anyway :) |
| 20:20.15 | ScribbleJ | I have a 16G uh, whatever class is 2mb/sec, and it does video recording just fine. |
| 20:20.31 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: writing is a whole nother story. |
| 20:20.43 | Arif_ | you should read reviews anyway |
| 20:20.48 | Arif_ | Class is minimum write speed |
| 20:21.01 | Arif_ | I had class 4 cards that were faster than 6 :( |
| 20:25.19 | MohammadAG | might sell my 16GB card |
| 20:25.31 | MohammadAG | and buy a 32GB one, but it's too expensive :( |
| 20:25.35 | Arif_ | waits for 32GB cards |
| 20:25.45 | *** join/#maemo [MONEY] (~TK@c-24-23-27-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:25.52 | MohammadAG | Arif_, why wait? You can order them now |
| 20:26.11 | MohammadAG | 99.97 pounds |
| 20:26.28 | Dragnslcr | Does anyone else have GMail synchronization setup and working? Calendar sync seems to be working fine, but contact sync is failing |
| 20:27.07 | cehteh | GAN900: wha? |
| 20:27.10 | cehteh | t |
| 20:27.12 | Arif_ | and what makes you think I'll pay so much for that |
| 20:27.13 | Arif_ | :P |
| 20:27.22 | *** join/#maemo RolaBlade (~Rola@hoasb-ff08dd00-36.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 20:27.26 | GAN900 | cehteh, the XChat plugin |
| 20:27.32 | cehteh | whats with it? |
| 20:27.43 | GAN900 | cehteh, the Hildon Notes drive me crazy. :P |
| 20:27.46 | GAN900 | use libnotify |
| 20:27.59 | cehteh | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:28.20 | cehteh | you changed it? |
| 20:28.54 | cehteh | for libnotify someone could add 'n' for the mode |
| 20:29.06 | cehteh | turning on/off libnotify stuff |
| 20:29.20 | cehteh | i just didnt cared enough |
| 20:29.48 | Milo- | gahh, why does the mad qmake and mad dpkg-buildpackage force my application to be installed with 644 permissions? |
| 20:30.08 | MohammadAG | Arif_, and how else would you get it? |
| 20:30.09 | Milo- | It needs to have executable permissions |
| 20:30.29 | Arif_ | wait untill the prices drop :p |
| 20:31.38 | Milo- | how do I make the installer auto-set the permissions to 755 rather than 644? |
| 20:32.04 | mgedmin | Milo-, how are you installing it in your debian/rules? |
| 20:32.29 | MohammadAG | Arif_, ah, when the 64GB cards get released |
| 20:32.29 | mgedmin | I'm sure dpkg-buldpackage doesn't touch the permissions your build/install process (i.e. debian/rules) sets |
| 20:32.30 | MohammadAG | :p |
| 20:32.43 | Milo- | mgedmin that file is untouched |
| 20:32.51 | mgedmin | huh |
| 20:32.58 | Arif_ | has no hurry :D |
| 20:33.27 | mgedmin | wait, "untouched"? |
| 20:33.34 | Milo- | http://codepad.org/4ijfsMV7 this is what the generator created |
| 20:33.46 | satmd | 'not modified' |
| 20:33.52 | Milo- | haven't touched it.. |
| 20:33.54 | *** join/#maemo Chewtoy (~chewtoy@200.7.44.194) |
| 20:33.58 | Flandry | hehe |
| 20:33.58 | mgedmin | okay, it runs "make install" |
| 20:34.02 | mgedmin | what does your Makefile look like? |
| 20:34.24 | Milo- | it has 'install -m 644 -p' but I don't know why it automatically sets it to that |
| 20:34.29 | mgedmin | probably autogenerated by qmake or something... |
| 20:34.32 | Milo- | yes |
| 20:34.34 | mgedmin | I'm not familiar with qmake |
| 20:34.38 | mgedmin | sadly |
| 20:34.52 | mgedmin | you probably need to tell it somehow that this is an executable file |
| 20:35.13 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 20:35.14 | Milo- | I don't see an option for such |
| 20:35.44 | mgedmin | can you pastebin your qmake source file? |
| 20:36.08 | Milo- | http://codepad.org/SWRhaNlk |
| 20:37.28 | *** join/#maemo ujjain (~ujjain@unaffiliated/ujjain) |
| 20:37.58 | mgedmin | and the Makefile? |
| 20:39.37 | Milo- | it is autogenerated by qmake, so it makes very little difference.. http://paste.pocoo.org/show/jSgsMHIz6xwf4uZjAPta/ |
| 20:39.54 | mgedmin | I'm just curious about qmake |
| 20:40.01 | *** join/#maemo Cy8aer (~Cy8aer@xdsl-213-196-254-39.netcologne.de) |
| 20:40.07 | Milo- | q-curious |
| 20:40.10 | mgedmin | a quick google gave me http://doc.trolltech.com/3.0/qmake-guide.html |
| 20:40.15 | mgedmin | which mentions nothing about file permissions |
| 20:40.23 | mgedmin | but given TARGET it should realize it's an executable |
| 20:40.30 | mgedmin | hm, 3.0? should I look for 4.0? |
| 20:40.30 | Milo- | yup |
| 20:40.37 | *** part/#maemo ujjain (~ujjain@unaffiliated/ujjain) |
| 20:40.41 | Milo- | 4.5 even |
| 20:40.54 | Milo- | http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/qmake-manual.html |
| 20:42.08 | mgedmin | Milo-, huh? I see "INSTALL_PROGRAM = install -m 755 -p " in your paste |
| 20:42.24 | Milo- | mgedmin yes, but install_app has 644 |
| 20:42.29 | mgedmin | and -$(INSTALL_PROGRAM) "build/$(QMAKE_TARGET)" "$(INSTALL_ROOT)/opt/maeremote/bin/$(QMAKE_TARGET)" |
| 20:42.35 | mgedmin | where QMAKE_TARGET = MaeRemote |
| 20:42.36 | Milo- | apparently that sets it to 644 in the actual product |
| 20:42.53 | mgedmin | "install_app" is not present at all in that file |
| 20:42.56 | mgedmin | I'm confused now |
| 20:42.58 | Milo- | INSTALL_APP |
| 20:43.06 | Milo- | erm |
| 20:43.09 | Milo- | INSTALL_FILE |
| 20:43.10 | mgedmin | chromium's search is case-insensitive |
| 20:43.11 | Milo- | sorry, |
| 20:43.16 | mgedmin | yes, file is for non-executable files |
| 20:43.24 | Milo- | ah I see |
| 20:43.27 | Milo- | hmm |
| 20:43.29 | mgedmin | isn't it MaeRemote that gets installed wrong? |
| 20:43.31 | mgedmin | which file is it? |
| 20:43.33 | Milo- | yes |
| 20:44.03 | Milo- | /opt/maeremote/bin/MaeRemote gets installed with 644 permissions for weird reasons |
| 20:44.27 | Milo- | debian/maeremote.tarlist also says so |
| 20:44.44 | Milo- | but that file is autogenerated by buildpackage command |
| 20:44.51 | mgedmin | can you check debian/maeremote/opt/maeremote/bin ? |
| 20:44.59 | mgedmin | does the file in there have correct perms or not? |
| 20:45.09 | mgedmin | loves bisecting for bugs |
| 20:45.23 | Milo- | yes it hasd |
| 20:45.23 | Milo- | -d |
| 20:45.49 | mgedmin | interesting |
| 20:46.06 | mgedmin | midnight commander can let you see inside .debs |
| 20:46.21 | mgedmin | if you start mc and go inside the binary deb produced, can you check the permissions? |
| 20:46.33 | mgedmin | IIRC alt-t toggles view modes, one of which shows file perms |
| 20:46.55 | mgedmin | nah, executables are in different color and have a * in front of them anyway |
| 20:47.01 | Milo- | midnight commander? |
| 20:47.04 | mgedmin | mc |
| 20:47.15 | Milo- | on n900? |
| 20:47.18 | *** join/#maemo Cy8aer (~Cy8aer@xdsl-213-196-254-39.netcologne.de) |
| 20:47.20 | mgedmin | or in scratchbox |
| 20:47.28 | Milo- | don't have such command in n900 |
| 20:47.30 | mgedmin | wherever you have the .deb file produced by dpkg-buildpackage |
| 20:47.37 | mgedmin | you can install mc from extras-devel, I think |
| 20:47.40 | Milo- | ah |
| 20:47.43 | mgedmin | did it make it into extras? |
| 20:47.54 | mgedmin | anyway, it doesn't matter where you use mc |
| 20:48.08 | mgedmin | I'd do that on my (linux) laptop anyway, the keyboard is better |
| 20:48.11 | mgedmin | ;) |
| 20:48.21 | javispedro | heh |
| 20:48.37 | mgedmin | then again, it's very unlikely that dpkg-buildpackage would take a mode 755 file and silently change the mode to 644 when packing the .deb |
| 20:48.46 | javispedro | I just found an SD card that sometimes doesn't do writes correctly if I do it at high speeds. |
| 20:48.51 | javispedro | "human" high speeds. |
| 20:48.53 | mgedmin | but it's also unlikely that this happens when you install... |
| 20:49.01 | Milo- | installing it on my desktop now |
| 20:49.12 | mgedmin | any chance of a VFAT partition getting in the way? those can't really represent file permissions |
| 20:49.33 | Milo- | nope nothing is installed in the vfat partition |
| 20:49.42 | mgedmin | IOW I've no clue where the problem is, but it's not in your qmake config nor in debian/rules at least |
| 20:49.48 | Arif_ | oh yay |
| 20:50.03 | Arif_ | I opened bug 9315 :P |
| 20:50.04 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9315 Radio stops playing after low battery warning |
| 20:50.30 | Milo- | mgedmin okay got the mc |
| 20:51.00 | Milo- | doesn't show up as an executable |
| 20:51.01 | *** join/#maemo dnaumov (~god@dsl-trebrasgw2-fe5ff900-211.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 20:51.20 | mgedmin | interesting! |
| 20:51.29 | lcuk | Milo-, movies do the same as i found out last night |
| 20:51.35 | lcuk | i was 99% through an episode |
| 20:51.37 | mgedmin | so it's executable in debian/maeremote, but not in the .deb |
| 20:51.40 | lcuk | and got low battery |
| 20:51.42 | mgedmin | how on earth could that happen? |
| 20:51.58 | Milo- | sounds like fun... |
| 20:52.04 | Milo- | bloody pirates! |
| 20:52.15 | Arif_ | who pirated what? |
| 20:52.22 | Milo- | pirates pirated pirates |
| 20:52.39 | Arif_ | hands Milo- a pirated version of Angry Birds |
| 20:52.54 | Milo- | yarrr |
| 20:53.58 | lcuk | oi! |
| 20:54.06 | lcuk | developers worked hard to make those |
| 20:54.20 | Milo- | mgedmin maybe it is a madde bug.. |
| 20:54.32 | lcuk | its not easy making birds angry and takes a lot of practice |
| 20:55.23 | Arif_ | it's not worth pirating anyway |
| 20:55.28 | Arif_ | ;P |
| 20:55.33 | javispedro | mgedmin: i've seen a shitload of weird things like that within scratchbox. |
| 20:55.43 | Milo- | javispedro I'm not using scratchbox |
| 20:55.48 | Milo- | I am using madde and n900.. |
| 20:55.56 | javispedro | madde |
| 20:55.57 | mgedmin | I haven't tried madde yet |
| 20:55.58 | javispedro | windows? |
| 20:55.58 | Milo- | gentoo, madde and n900 :) |
| 20:56.00 | javispedro | ah |
| 20:56.15 | lcuk | javispedro, what was the name of the gles book you were gonna get |
| 20:56.18 | mgedmin | a 600-megabyte shell script is not something I'm going to download and blindly run, thank you very much |
| 20:56.27 | Milo- | mgedmin heh |
| 20:56.36 | Milo- | the shell script is actually just few kilos |
| 20:56.42 | javispedro | lcuk: the book I got ;) ; it's "OpenGL ES 2.0 Programming Guide" |
| 20:56.45 | Milo- | but for some reason nokia has stucked the binary code inside the shell script :D |
| 20:56.45 | mgedmin | yeah, it's a shar archive I bet |
| 20:56.56 | lcuk | is it good |
| 20:57.17 | Milo- | mgedmin but saves tons of trouble to use madde instead of crapbox :) |
| 20:57.36 | Milo- | except when it was time to build the package :D |
| 20:57.41 | mgedmin | like the permissions issue you have now? |
| 20:57.45 | mgedmin | let me know how that goes |
| 20:57.46 | Milo- | :P |
| 20:57.49 | javispedro | lcuk: I learned quite a lot from it. my only gripe is that it talks little about 1.1 (which is to be expected). |
| 20:58.01 | Milo- | I think I'll make a thread to Talk |
| 20:58.02 | mgedmin | ordered a 120 GB SSD today |
| 20:58.04 | lcuk | so we need 1.1 or can we use both |
| 20:58.07 | lcuk | or is 1.1 only for the n810 |
| 20:58.11 | javispedro | lcuk: if you want it as a tutorial I think it's good |
| 20:58.12 | lcuk | nice mgedmin |
| 20:58.15 | mgedmin | doesn't know if he'll bother reinstalling scratchbox when he gets it |
| 20:58.16 | javispedro | 1.1 only for n810 |
| 20:58.21 | mgedmin | maybe it'll be time to try out MADDE |
| 20:58.21 | lcuk | right, good thanks |
| 20:58.24 | javispedro | n900 has both now |
| 20:58.37 | lcuk | yeah are you managing to use it as you need? |
| 20:58.38 | mgedmin | now I've got scratchbox installed years ago, so the pain is past |
| 20:59.00 | lcuk | scratchbox on ubuntu is a breeze nowadays |
| 20:59.02 | lcuk | with the gui installer |
| 20:59.13 | mgedmin | they made a gui installer? ooh aah |
| 20:59.19 | mgedmin | I wouldn't trust it anyway |
| 20:59.20 | javispedro | Madde might have speciall logic for executable perms |
| 20:59.28 | javispedro | considering windows doesn't implement those. |
| 20:59.29 | mgedmin | give me .debs |
| 20:59.37 | ShadowJK | mgedmin, what make/model? |
| 20:59.42 | lcuk | mgedmin, of course for a pro like yourself thats the expected way |
| 20:59.43 | mgedmin | or a shell script I can read and interpreted myself, one command at a time |
| 20:59.50 | lcuk | but for n00bs its simpler to step through |
| 21:00.09 | mgedmin | ShadowJK, Intel X25-M with a lot of qualifications I don't really understand (MLC -- okay, I know what *that* is, 34NM -- huh?) |
| 21:00.23 | ShadowJK | Forget about MLC and 34 nm |
| 21:00.24 | mgedmin | lcuk, s/pro/paranoid person/ |
| 21:00.27 | ShadowJK | It's all about the controller |
| 21:00.32 | lcuk | mgedmin, one and the same |
| 21:00.35 | ShadowJK | and intel is both kicking ass, and proven |
| 21:00.50 | mgedmin | then there were models ending in G2C1 and G2R4 (or was it R5?) |
| 21:00.53 | mgedmin | I got the C1 one |
| 21:00.58 | mgedmin | because the other one was out of stock |
| 21:01.32 | javispedro | bah, I was already starting to forget how cool the n900 was. |
| 21:01.34 | mgedmin | bit on the expensive side, but recent blog posts about 7-second Ubuntu boot time cinched it |
| 21:01.49 | javispedro | though everytime I use the n810 I have the urge to try diablo's h-d on the n900 :) |
| 21:02.26 | mgedmin | what's h-d? |
| 21:02.31 | javispedro | hildon-desktop, I mean. |
| 21:02.35 | mgedmin | interesting |
| 21:03.05 | mgedmin | the only things I miss from my n810 are the half-size virtual keyboard, bluetooth file sending and SMB browsing in the file manager |
| 21:03.14 | javispedro | and I miss the task navigator |
| 21:03.15 | mgedmin | and the kickstand, maybe |
| 21:03.32 | mgedmin | I love the new task navigator, but wish it let me reorder apps by dragging |
| 21:03.57 | Arif_ | what about the craptastic speakers :P |
| 21:05.26 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (~unixSnob@starfury.spearlink.com) |
| 21:05.32 | Flandry | There's a quote for my wall: <javispedro> mgedmin: i've seen a shitload of weird things like that within scratchbox. |
| 21:06.20 | mgedmin | "I've seen things you humans wouldn't believe: sunrise on Titan, permission bits disappearing into the void inside scratchbox, ..." |
| 21:06.37 | javispedro | my current explanation is that "fakeroot" has a limited buffer size. |
| 21:06.46 | SpeedEvil | All these things fade. Like charged gates in the rain. |
| 21:06.49 | lcuk | mgedmin, i believe the permission bits |
| 21:06.57 | lcuk | ntfs has a healthy habit of that itself |
| 21:07.02 | mgedmin | that's only because you were there |
| 21:07.14 | mgedmin | javispedro: ! |
| 21:07.16 | mgedmin | interesting theory |
| 21:07.24 | mgedmin | is it true? |
| 21:07.34 | mgedmin | doesn't fakeroot stop and complain loudly when this happens? |
| 21:07.40 | javispedro | dunno, didn't even look at the code. |
| 21:07.52 | mgedmin | nah, I don't believe it |
| 21:08.02 | mgedmin | fakeroot is used for all kinds of huge packages all the time (think: openoffice) |
| 21:08.18 | javispedro | true. |
| 21:08.57 | javispedro | hm... but this is sbox's own years-old fakeroot we're talking about. |
| 21:09.19 | mgedmin | openoffice wasn't written yesterday... |
| 21:09.48 | dmb | openoffice was written 5 years ago either |
| 21:09.58 | javispedro | touché. so back to "a wizard hides my execute permission bits". |
| 21:10.41 | javispedro | "or gives back ownership of them to user -- instead of root" |
| 21:11.07 | mgedmin | the wizards are subtle and quick to anger |
| 21:11.13 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (~tso@200.84-49-138.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:11.37 | mgedmin | ponders stracing the dpkg-buildpackage and grepping the log for MaeRemote, then looking for chmod()/fchmod() calls |
| 21:11.51 | mgedmin | no, wait, the permissions are right on the fs |
| 21:12.00 | mgedmin | is flummoxed again |
| 21:12.23 | Milo- | okay, another question, where do I place the pictures in the project which my UI uses? |
| 21:12.27 | javispedro | once added two chmod -R calls "just to be sure" |
| 21:12.55 | Milo- | currently my UI has few pictures, but when I execute my binary, those pictures doesn't show up, unless those pictures are in the CWD. |
| 21:13.28 | *** join/#maemo Sargun (~Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 21:13.29 | Milo- | but if I want those pictures to show up on default, how should I create my build directories ? |
| 21:14.22 | javispedro | while on the topic of magic, https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/old/201001/corsixth_0.0.0-beta1-0maemo3/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt |
| 21:14.24 | mgedmin | well, the Debian way would be: make sure your package installs them in /usr/share/yourpkgname/picture1.png etc. |
| 21:14.30 | mgedmin | and have your app load them from that location |
| 21:14.44 | javispedro | see the error message and the different "stat file" commands I've put there for debuggin. |
| 21:14.49 | mgedmin | the Maemo way would be: make sure your package installs them in /opt/maemo/usr/share/yourpkgname/picture1.png and loads them from that location |
| 21:15.25 | Milo- | mgedmin both ways are not very developer-friendly :) |
| 21:15.38 | Flandry | lol |
| 21:15.50 | MohammadAG | sudo su works on the N900 lol |
| 21:15.56 | MohammadAG | didn't work before |
| 21:16.04 | javispedro | oh |
| 21:16.17 | Flandry | developer friendly directories? |
| 21:16.28 | lcuk | Milo-, are you a windows developer? |
| 21:16.31 | Milo- | no |
| 21:16.41 | lcuk | what do you work in? |
| 21:16.44 | javispedro | MohammadAG: the "didn't work before" part is true; but it doesn't work here, asks me for root password. |
| 21:16.57 | mgedmin | javispedro, 128-char pathname limit? |
| 21:17.05 | javispedro | mgedmin: 128-char _only_? |
| 21:17.17 | Milo- | lcuk just don't like filling my /usr/share/ with pictures while I'm trying to develop something :P |
| 21:17.19 | mgedmin | I dunno, I was just wondering |
| 21:17.21 | javispedro | if that explains it I'm going to kill someone. |
| 21:17.24 | mgedmin | seems short |
| 21:17.27 | Milo- | I like to keep my pictures in my git repo |
| 21:17.37 | lcuk | Milo-, but if its your app folder you can |
| 21:17.43 | lcuk | cos you can uninstall reinstall |
| 21:17.56 | Milo- | true but installing and uninstalling, what a mess |
| 21:17.56 | lcuk | if its user pictures, look in /home/user/* |
| 21:18.08 | Milo- | make clean && make && ./a.out \o/ |
| 21:18.16 | mgedmin | Milo-, yeah, I like my apps to run from the current directory without installing too |
| 21:18.22 | javispedro | mgedmin: fortunately, while it is 100% reproducible on the diablo autobuilder, it works OK on the fremantle autobuilder and on my local scratchbox setup. |
| 21:18.22 | lcuk | so you are on device developing |
| 21:18.37 | MohammadAG | javispedro, http://i45.tinypic.com/2vd1ngz.jpg |
| 21:18.40 | mgedmin | so I usually do something if file_exists('/usr/share/myapp/img.png'), use that, otherwise fall back to ./images/img.png |
| 21:18.49 | lcuk | i made original liqbase look in 2 places for its app data (including media) |
| 21:19.07 | lcuk | if i ran it from my dev folder /media/mmc/svn/liqbase it would see the media inside mmc |
| 21:19.12 | javispedro | MohammadAG: now you're going to have to guess which extras package has added a NOPASSWD "su" entry in your sudoers |
| 21:19.18 | lcuk | otherwise from an installed system it would find it in /usr/share/liqbase |
| 21:19.55 | Milo- | lcuk that is not a bad idea actually |
| 21:20.05 | Milo- | though, only place where I use pictures, is in css. |
| 21:20.13 | mgedmin | javispedro, I just tried echo '/home/builder1/maemo-diablo-armel-extras-devel/work/corsixth-0.0.0-beta1/debian/corsixth-data/usr/share/games/CorsixTH/CorsixTH'|wc -c and got back 128 |
| 21:20.15 | Milo- | how do I check for existance in css? :P |
| 21:20.34 | Milo- | especially when my GUI has been created with qtdesigner |
| 21:20.41 | mgedmin | javispedro, I would probably try to rename the CorsixTH file to something shorter and upload it to the autobuilder, just to test the 127-char filename limit |
| 21:20.52 | mgedmin | hypothesis |
| 21:21.02 | javispedro | mgedmin: yeah, sounds plausible |
| 21:21.02 | mgedmin | Milo-, those are very good questions |
| 21:21.03 | Milo- | maybe I should move the stylesheet from stylesheet file to constructor |
| 21:21.07 | RST38h | javis: BTW, CorsixTH never worked for me |
| 21:21.17 | RST38h | javis: Is there something I am missing? |
| 21:21.23 | javispedro | RST38h: yes, it's not install-and-run |
| 21:21.29 | mgedmin | Milo-, I'd be inclined to cargo-cult, i.e. find some open-source app using qt and images then see how it was made |
| 21:21.35 | javispedro | RST38h: you have to copy the hospital files manually, edit some config files, etc. |
| 21:21.40 | RST38h | ohh |
| 21:21.40 | *** join/#maemo doubleukay_ (~doubleuka@124.168.122.182) |
| 21:21.43 | mgedmin | it's not really cargo-culting if you understand how something works when you copy it |
| 21:22.29 | MohammadAG | javispedro, if you do guess which one it is, tell me lol |
| 21:22.46 | mgedmin | lcuk, if you're looking for reading matter, I suggest Steven Brust's Vlad Taltos series |
| 21:22.49 | Flandry | cargo-cult? What a weird expression |
| 21:22.58 | lcuk | ooh a series |
| 21:22.59 | MohammadAG | does anyone know how to disable the boot logo? |
| 21:23.06 | mgedmin | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_programming |
| 21:23.07 | lcuk | i dont like reading individual books |
| 21:23.10 | MohammadAG | kernel-flasher-maemo used to have it disabled |
| 21:23.14 | lcuk | i tend to get into the story and want more |
| 21:23.18 | mgedmin | nods |
| 21:23.29 | Flandry | oooh |
| 21:23.39 | Flandry | Not the same as "borrowing code" |
| 21:23.41 | lcuk | im spying peter hamilton |
| 21:23.49 | lcuk | hes got some decent series available |
| 21:24.30 | mgedmin | wonders if freenode has a channel for book-lovers |
| 21:24.37 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (~pupnik@p54B2FE07.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:24.37 | RST38h | speaking of cargo cults, TI84+SE emulation is not coming. Yet. |
| 21:24.52 | RST38h | mgedmin: Undernet #bookz. |
| 21:25.11 | javispedro | "Other interpretations include: threatening your computer with a shotgun until it has been debugged." |
| 21:25.13 | *** join/#maemo OldNugget (~user@tmo-101-242.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 21:25.14 | RST38h | Looks like TI84+SE protects its ROM really well =) |
| 21:25.53 | mgedmin | wants to talk book recommendations, not swap around pirated bookz |
| 21:25.58 | Flandry | heh if i'd actually red that book on my shelf i'd have known the term |
| 21:26.04 | Flandry | read* |
| 21:26.22 | Flandry | At least my library is well-read |
| 21:26.45 | pupnik | :) /me remembers his dad's 1979 TI calculator fondly |
| 21:27.00 | pupnik | those happy red LEDs... |
| 21:27.01 | mgedmin | first learned that term from Niven's _Dream Park_ |
| 21:27.21 | mgedmin | then remembers being surprised that people had to explain what "cargo cult" is when introducing "cargo cult programming" etc. |
| 21:28.12 | Flandry | Only Niven book i have read is ringworld and lucifer's hammer |
| 21:28.35 | RST38h | mgedmin: talking books recommendations is a bad idea |
| 21:28.40 | pupnik | i first heard of cargo cullts from Feynman's autobiography |
| 21:28.55 | RST38h | mgedmin: as tastes differ, a lot |
| 21:28.56 | Flandry | yeah that's the one on my shelf i haven't read |
| 21:28.57 | mgedmin | RST38h, whaddayamean, I'm out of books to read and am climbing walls |
| 21:29.08 | mgedmin | okay, tastes differ, true |
| 21:29.17 | RST38h | mgedmin: Can I suggest Lithuanian Criminal Code? =) |
| 21:29.17 | mgedmin | (everyone is wrong except me, of course) |
| 21:29.24 | RST38h | cackles evilly |
| 21:29.45 | Flandry | Mistborn series? |
| 21:29.49 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi) |
| 21:29.49 | mgedmin | RST38h, if I'd wanted to read that, I'd have gone into law school |
| 21:30.02 | Flandry | I liked the implementation of magics for that |
| 21:30.08 | RST38h | But anyway, what genre/subgenre do you feel like reading? |
| 21:30.24 | mgedmin | likes SF |
| 21:30.50 | mgedmin | I think I got the Mistborn e-book when tor.com had that promotional campaing for their new website |
| 21:30.52 | RST38h | mgedmin: more specific? |
| 21:31.12 | Flandry | There's always the Lensman series if you want to indulge your adolescent side :P |
| 21:31.28 | mgedmin | specifics are hard... |
| 21:31.29 | SpeedEvil | I've recently been enjoying http://www.temeraire.org/ in that vein. |
| 21:31.41 | SpeedEvil | Hornblower + dragons. |
| 21:31.47 | mgedmin | read them, liked them |
| 21:32.11 | Flandry | I like Poul Anderson's work |
| 21:32.12 | *** join/#maemo doubleukay (~doubleuka@124-168-81-99.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 21:32.17 | mgedmin | Lois McMaster Bujold, Charles Stross, Terry Pratchett, Steven Brust |
| 21:32.27 | mgedmin | Eric Flint's works are fun to read |
| 21:32.31 | SpeedEvil | All good. |
| 21:32.33 | RST38h | mgedmin: Ok. Try Blindsight by Peter Watts. Available from his web site for free. |
| 21:32.34 | mgedmin | as well as David Eddings's |
| 21:32.39 | mgedmin | ooh, Peter Watts |
| 21:32.42 | SpeedEvil | has been reading 163[0-9] |
| 21:32.50 | mgedmin | Karl Schroeder also has a free ebook on his website |
| 21:32.55 | Flandry | He pays a lot of attention to details and has good problem/solution adventures |
| 21:33.06 | RST38h | mgedmin: Although I am afraid it will be somewhat too cerebral after reading Bujold and Pratchett |
| 21:33.13 | SpeedEvil | http://www.baen.com/library/ |
| 21:33.18 | SpeedEvil | free SF library |
| 21:33.25 | mgedmin | the problems with writers like Bujold and Pratchett is that almost anything else feels like a letdown after them |
| 21:33.29 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (~david@c-67-174-39-138.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:33.34 | *** join/#maemo SWFu64 (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu) |
| 21:33.45 | RST38h | mm... |
| 21:34.01 | RST38h | Now you have created a problem |
| 21:34.08 | Flandry | hmm that sounds like a challenge |
| 21:34.21 | mgedmin | forgot to mention Robin McKinley |
| 21:34.23 | *** join/#maemo MrGoose1 (~cache@5ac020e5.bb.sky.com) |
| 21:34.37 | RST38h | But should be doable, just gimme a moment |
| 21:34.40 | SpeedEvil | I like Jim Butcher's dresden PI |
| 21:34.49 | Flandry | Jack McDevitt has some nice scifi |
| 21:34.51 | mgedmin | almost threw the second book at the wall, then it got really good |
| 21:35.16 | mgedmin | is currently reading T. A. Pratt's Marla Mason series |
| 21:35.24 | SpeedEvil | Baen has some silly books. Programming magic. |
| 21:35.29 | mgedmin | Robin Cook? |
| 21:35.33 | SpeedEvil | Rick Cook |
| 21:35.34 | mgedmin | got bored in book 3 |
| 21:35.38 | mgedmin | er, yes |
| 21:35.39 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 21:35.44 | SpeedEvil | It might have been robin |
| 21:35.45 | lcuk | damn pdf |
| 21:35.47 | mgedmin | Rick |
| 21:35.56 | mgedmin | my fingers cached the 'Robin' |
| 21:35.56 | RST38h | mgedmin: Robert Asprin? |
| 21:36.04 | Flandry | ha |
| 21:36.14 | mgedmin | lcuk, https://code.launchpad.net/~mgedmin/+junk/pdf2html makes PDFs readable in fbreader |
| 21:36.23 | RST38h | mgedmin: Ursula Leguin? |
| 21:36.25 | Flandry | Loved the myth series back in the day |
| 21:36.30 | lcuk | im on about windas expee |
| 21:36.41 | SpeedEvil | Myth* is very good light reading. |
| 21:36.41 | *** join/#maemo doubleukay_ (~doubleuka@210-84-60-72.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 21:36.42 | RST38h | mgedmin: Anything by Zelazny? |
| 21:36.47 | mgedmin | I liked _Another Fine Myth_ when I first read it (a LT translation by the local SF publisher), didn't quite enjoy it when I re-read it in English years later |
| 21:36.52 | RST38h | mgedmin: (including the satanic cycle) |
| 21:37.12 | mgedmin | Zelazny is not bad |
| 21:37.24 | mgedmin | I read some things by Ursula LeGuin, don't quite remember my reaction |
| 21:37.39 | felipec | zaheerm: did your problems with msn-pecan got fixed? |
| 21:37.58 | SpeedEvil | Glen Cook is worth a read too. The black company are some of the best done series I've seen. |
| 21:37.59 | RST38h | is really careful to only choose teenage stuff |
| 21:38.21 | SpeedEvil | Legionaire era merceneries in a land with magic. |
| 21:38.22 | RST38h | mgedmin; Brian Jacques? |
| 21:38.26 | lcuk | throws pdf out the window and loses mails he was writing |
| 21:38.32 | Arif_ | bah |
| 21:38.35 | derf | Zelazny was my favorite teenage stuff. |
| 21:38.39 | Arif_ | I lost my pen |
| 21:38.40 | Arif_ | :( |
| 21:38.41 | *** join/#maemo Cy8aer1 (~Cy8aer@xdsl-213-196-227-75.netcologne.de) |
| 21:38.51 | mgedmin | lcuk, poppler-utils can be built on Windows; Python also works on Windows, so if you have a PDF you want to read very much, you can hack it |
| 21:38.54 | Flandry | Chronicles of Amber fun |
| 21:39.02 | RST38h | reread Zelazny at 30 and could not understand how he could read that |
| 21:39.10 | SpeedEvil | walks the pattern. |
| 21:39.10 | mgedmin | RST38h, Brian Jacuqes is the first name I don't recognize |
| 21:39.11 | lcuk | mgedmin, its just a few pdfs that shouldnt be a problem - single pagers |
| 21:39.16 | derf | Hell, I even liked The Black Throne back then. |
| 21:39.19 | Flandry | yeah haha true |
| 21:39.22 | lcuk | that if i had known they were gonna lock up my machine i wouldv exported |
| 21:39.24 | RST38h | mgedmin: Mice. Mice in armor. Many, many mice. |
| 21:39.26 | derf | I am not stupid enough to go back and read it now. |
| 21:39.30 | mgedmin | even if I spelt it correctly ;) |
| 21:39.31 | Arif_ | heh |
| 21:39.34 | SpeedEvil | Niven. |
| 21:39.37 | RST38h | mgedmin: Other small furry animals in armor too |
| 21:39.42 | SpeedEvil | wants a scrith case for his n900. |
| 21:39.43 | mgedmin | ooh, how could I've forgotten to mention Neal Stephenson? |
| 21:39.43 | lcuk | niven == god |
| 21:39.45 | Arif_ | first 5 results on "n900 stylus" search on google leads to maemo.org |
| 21:39.52 | mgedmin | liked _The Mote in God's Eye_ |
| 21:39.53 | lcuk | lol SpeedEvil |
| 21:39.57 | *** join/#maemo Jago (~jago@dsl-trebrasgw2-fe5ff900-211.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 21:39.58 | lcuk | that and a variable sword |
| 21:40.06 | RST38h | mgedmin: Heinlein. |
| 21:40.16 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: naah. Swap the flash LED for a tasp. |
| 21:40.18 | Flandry | meh |
| 21:40.23 | mgedmin | I _think_ I read everything by Heinlein |
| 21:40.29 | RST38h | Ok |
| 21:40.29 | lcuk | mgedmin, the mote was good, reminded me of linux enthusiasts |
| 21:40.32 | *** join/#maemo davyg (~davyg@dau94-9-88-178-191-172.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:40.32 | RST38h | mgedmin: Harrison? |
| 21:40.33 | Flandry | Heinlein is also one that i can't read again now |
| 21:40.39 | lcuk | building and making full use of everything around em |
| 21:40.47 | Flandry | good comparison |
| 21:40.50 | lcuk | did you read the followup |
| 21:41.09 | lcuk | digs into memorybank for the name |
| 21:41.09 | Flandry | what was it called? |
| 21:41.15 | zaheerm | felipec, yep, been working very well since the last package you gave me which disabled offline messages, thx |
| 21:41.20 | RST38h | mgedmin: Martin? =) |
| 21:41.27 | mgedmin | lcuk, _The Gripping Hand_ IIRC |
| 21:41.37 | lcuk | yeha |
| 21:41.39 | derf | George R. R. Martin? |
| 21:41.41 | pupnik | how nice to see favorite chatters here this evening |
| 21:41.50 | felipec | zaheerm: cool :) offline messages are now enabled, but should work now |
| 21:41.52 | RST38h | mgedmin: Sapkovsky? |
| 21:41.58 | derf | (not SF, but the first Martin I thought of) |
| 21:41.59 | RST38h | mgedmin: Oldi? |
| 21:42.00 | Flandry | Oh, i don't think i read that |
| 21:42.06 | SpeedEvil | Diamond Age. |
| 21:42.10 | RST38h | ran out of teenage stuff |
| 21:42.15 | mgedmin | yeah, I'd love to know how life pans out for Arya, but I'm not holding my breath |
| 21:42.38 | Flandry | Good followup? |
| 21:42.38 | RST38h | mgedmin: Pullman? Gaiman? |
| 21:42.38 | mgedmin | RST38h, the Witcher guy? Played the game, never read any of his books |
| 21:42.43 | lcuk | stephensons books kinda just finish unexp |
| 21:42.45 | mgedmin | I loved a couple of books by Oldi |
| 21:43.00 | mgedmin | Gaiman rules |
| 21:43.03 | RST38h | mgedmin: You will like Sapkovski. |
| 21:43.24 | mgedmin | Pullman ... I liked The Golden Compass, was disappointed by the other two |
| 21:43.28 | derf | Err, somehow I'm confusing GRRM with Martin Cruz Smith. |
| 21:43.30 | RST38h | Well, Gaiman is borderline teenage stuff |
| 21:43.39 | lcuk | snowcrash kicked ass |
| 21:43.39 | derf | Both Martins with too many names. |
| 21:43.55 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: Good Omens was awesome. |
| 21:43.55 | *** join/#maemo Gadgetoid_mbp (~phil@cpc3-nrwh9-2-0-cust561.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 21:44.02 | mgedmin | SpeedEvil++ |
| 21:44.12 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, scrith or hull material btw |
| 21:44.12 | SpeedEvil | m25 |
| 21:44.25 | RST38h | Beyond Gaiman, there is insanity, drug use, and general misantropy |
| 21:44.40 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: hull material for the screen, scrith for the case. |
| 21:44.50 | zaheerm | felipec, ok great, is your latest package in extras-testing yet? |
| 21:44.56 | lcuk | but scrith comes into its own at orbital scale |
| 21:45.01 | RST38h | mgedmin: But ok, let us say Muse of Fire by Simmons |
| 21:45.03 | derf | If you want insanity, drug use, and general misantropy, you want PKD. |
| 21:45.08 | lcuk | you can paint hull material |
| 21:45.13 | mgedmin | PKD failed to click with me |
| 21:45.15 | *** join/#maemo b-man17 (~b-man17@pool-98-115-101-180.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 21:45.28 | mgedmin | not a big fan of insanity, drug use or general misantropy |
| 21:45.33 | SpeedEvil | flow my tears. |
| 21:45.44 | RST38h | derf: Naah, the guy was a dick. |
| 21:45.46 | Flandry | scrith |
| 21:45.51 | felipec | zaheerm: no, the one I released today is only on -devel, probably tomorrow I'll push it to -testing |
| 21:46.00 | SpeedEvil | Harlan Elison is strange. |
| 21:46.04 | RST38h | derf: Besides, we will end up with Burroughs at this rate |
| 21:46.05 | derf | RST38h: I don't want to be his friend, I just want to read his books. |
| 21:46.11 | SpeedEvil | "I have no mouth and I must scream" |
| 21:46.11 | lcuk | whos read the new niven books? fleet|juggler|destroyer of worlds | |
| 21:46.19 | zaheerm | felipec, ok will test it tomorrow in any case whether it is in -devel or -testing |
| 21:46.22 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: I got very dissapointed |
| 21:46.28 | derf | I mean, Harlan Ellison does't win personality contests, either. |
| 21:46.33 | RST38h | true |
| 21:46.42 | RST38h | But then I am not reading him |
| 21:46.42 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: I haven't read the newer ones after a _massive_ dissapointment |
| 21:46.47 | RST38h | Dull shit. |
| 21:46.47 | Flandry | Not many writers do? |
| 21:46.49 | felipec | zaheerm: thanks :) |
| 21:47.04 | lcuk | i liked them, was gonna read them all whatever, but it was a decent storyline |
| 21:47.26 | zaheerm | felipec, no worries, keep up the good work...i only do IM on my n900 now |
| 21:47.26 | lcuk | it would be hard to outdo the rest of the known space ringworld setting books |
| 21:47.43 | Flandry | Sadly most of my reading was as a teen so that's my repertoire |
| 21:47.54 | zaheerm | felipec, that's why my nexusone google gave me, i only use for google maps |
| 21:47.55 | SpeedEvil | Wen Spencer is a good read usually. |
| 21:48.02 | Flandry | Stainless steel rat |
| 21:48.04 | lcuk | Flandry, the good thing about good books is they are timeless |
| 21:48.15 | lcuk | so you can talk about them as if you read them yesterday |
| 21:48.19 | mgedmin | SSR was my introduction to SF |
| 21:48.20 | SpeedEvil | 'Tinker' - protagonist is a female scrapyard operator. |
| 21:48.27 | zaheerm | felipec, silly device for im with no keyboard...and i use sms/im more than voice on my phone |
| 21:48.28 | mgedmin | it was also the reason I learned to read Russian |
| 21:48.36 | RST38h | oh wait |
| 21:48.38 | Flandry | Well, yeah, but my tastes have changed, and my hormone levels ;) |
| 21:48.40 | cehteh | mhm some progress meter for downloading maps would be nice .. but well i prolly should started it with downloading the whole county |
| 21:48.44 | lcuk | heh |
| 21:48.47 | RST38h | mgedmin: Farmer. |
| 21:48.47 | zaheerm | felipec, and pecan is the best of the 3 msn options |
| 21:48.49 | lcuk | playboy is your usual now :p |
| 21:48.51 | *** join/#maemo rlinfati (~rlinfati@net-93-147-32-24.t2.dsl.vodafone.it) |
| 21:48.52 | cehteh | shoudnt |
| 21:49.15 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: where from? |
| 21:49.27 | Flandry | more like chemistry and materials references |
| 21:49.34 | Flandry | that's not really pleasure reading though |
| 21:49.37 | cehteh | germany |
| 21:49.50 | cehteh | south/western part |
| 21:49.57 | lcuk | mgedmin, totally different topoic, gtimelog - what would be required to tie it in with monitoring irc chans for its entries |
| 21:49.59 | mgedmin | cehteh, what mapping app? |
| 21:49.59 | SpeedEvil | I prefer well constructed self-consistent detailed fantasy worlds. |
| 21:50.06 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: I meant what source. |
| 21:50.09 | cehteh | maemo mapper |
| 21:50.13 | cehteh | osm |
| 21:50.19 | cehteh | what else :P |
| 21:50.22 | mgedmin | maemo-mapper used to make my n810 run out of RAM and crash if I tried to download too many maps (like over 25 megs) |
| 21:50.23 | *** join/#maemo fnordianslip (~fnoridans@94-30-69-47.xdsl.murphx.net) |
| 21:50.26 | felipec | zaheerm: yeah, I also do IM on my N900 now... the keyboard is pretty decent |
| 21:50.38 | mgedmin | but m-m has a progress bar for the downloading... |
| 21:50.40 | SpeedEvil | felipec: surprisingly so. |
| 21:50.47 | cehteh | there was an update today which fixed the map download stuff, seems it works fine now |
| 21:50.48 | zaheerm | felipec, i never use my desktp, that is how good the n900 im experience is |
| 21:50.49 | Flandry | have you read "The High Crusade" by Anderson? That's a fun little sci-fi read |
| 21:50.51 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: osm2go is good. |
| 21:50.53 | cehteh | but needs a lot of ram |
| 21:50.56 | SpeedEvil | Flandry: yup. |
| 21:51.00 | mgedmin | Flandry, yep |
| 21:51.29 | *** join/#maemo SWFu64 (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu) |
| 21:51.33 | Flandry | It's the one i recommend to non-scifi readers |
| 21:51.36 | *** join/#maemo rdorsch (~rd@184.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 21:51.37 | RST38h | Oh wait |
| 21:51.41 | felipec | and I have all my accounts there, now even facebook :p |
| 21:51.49 | RST38h | mgedmin: Snegov, all three books =) |
| 21:51.56 | mgedmin | felipec, does facebook chat work for you? |
| 21:52.08 | mgedmin | it rejects my login since yesterday |
| 21:52.17 | mgedmin | RST38h, Sne-who? |
| 21:52.25 | mgedmin | another unfamiliar name |
| 21:52.51 | RST38h | mgedmin: http://www.lib.ru/RUFANT/SNEGOW/ |
| 21:52.58 | MohammadAG | mgedmin, using Jabber? |
| 21:53.00 | mgedmin | my knowledge of Russian SF is small |
| 21:53.00 | RST38h | mgedmin: No wonder, you are too young to remember :) |
| 21:53.05 | mgedmin | MohammadAG, yes |
| 21:53.07 | MohammadAG | keeps saying Network Error here |
| 21:53.21 | lcuk | mgedmin, how long did it take you to learn russian |
| 21:53.24 | mgedmin | I read a few books back before I learned to pay attention to things like author names |
| 21:53.25 | MohammadAG | ovi chat does the same |
| 21:53.27 | RST38h | mgedmin: In short, the pretty much the first attempt at space opera in Russian |
| 21:53.35 | mgedmin | didn't like most of them, started ignoring the whole field |
| 21:53.45 | SpeedEvil | tries to think of russian SF. |
| 21:53.52 | mgedmin | liked Lukyanenko's _Labyrinth of Mirrors_ later |
| 21:53.57 | SpeedEvil | Stanislaw Lem. Nope, polish I guess |
| 21:54.01 | felipec | mgedmin: yeah, works fine through XMPP |
| 21:54.09 | RST38h | mgedmin: Urgh. You are making it really difficult to suggest anything. |
| 21:54.11 | mgedmin | felipec, thanks! |
| 21:54.16 | mgedmin | so it's a problem on my end, not facebook's |
| 21:54.22 | zaheerm | mgedmin, works for me fine with jabber |
| 21:54.30 | RST38h | mgedmin: I mean... Luk'yanenko... urgh, |
| 21:54.50 | mgedmin | RST38h, don't worry, I heard a few suggestions of things I haven't read and am interested |
| 21:54.53 | mgedmin | like _Mistborn_ |
| 21:55.07 | mgedmin | I think FBReader didn't like the .zip tor gave me |
| 21:55.09 | lcuk | peter hamilton does space opera |
| 21:55.15 | mgedmin | it has a .opf file inside referring to a file that doesn't exist |
| 21:55.15 | *** join/#maemo colonelqubit (~colonelqu@129.170.131.196) |
| 21:55.23 | mgedmin | I'll need to unzip and fix it on the laptop first |
| 21:55.35 | mgedmin | lcuk, yup, read it, wasn't bad |
| 21:55.38 | mgedmin | better than okay even |
| 21:55.40 | MohammadAG | mgedmin, if you find a fix do highlight me :) |
| 21:55.54 | lcuk | mgedmin, which books of his |
| 21:55.58 | mgedmin | MohammadAG, Google Talk often gives me "Network Error" |
| 21:55.58 | MohammadAG | I've tried killing telepathy, but kilalll keeps saying no process killed |
| 21:56.02 | lcuk | i was planning on getting the first from a few of his series |
| 21:56.07 | mgedmin | facebook tells me "authentication failed" |
| 21:56.09 | MohammadAG | mgedmin, a reboot should fix that |
| 21:56.11 | lcuk | and then following the rest |
| 21:56.18 | MohammadAG | says Network error here |
| 21:56.43 | MohammadAG | The N900 keeps trying to connect too, the battery went flat in 2 hours |
| 21:57.27 | mgedmin | lcuk, sorry, missed your question in the deluge |
| 21:57.39 | lcuk | dont worry |
| 21:57.53 | lcuk | im getting a batch of his books and will just follow which look good |
| 21:57.53 | SpeedEvil | Anyway - the baen free library is a very good sampling of hte field. |
| 21:58.19 | SpeedEvil | Worth downloading for use with fbreader. |
| 21:58.21 | mgedmin | lcuk, the Mindstar Rising trilogy, the Commonwealth Saga and, Night's Dawn series |
| 21:58.28 | mgedmin | also _Fallen Dragon_ |
| 21:58.44 | mgedmin | baen ++ |
| 21:58.54 | mgedmin | that's where I found Eric Flint |
| 21:59.25 | SpeedEvil | hamilton is very worth a read too. |
| 21:59.40 | lcuk | yeah, and not just worth it, hes prolific |
| 21:59.41 | *** part/#maemo richieeee72 (~richard@host86-156-152-171.range86-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:59.44 | mgedmin | would give hamilton a 3.5 or 4 out of 5 |
| 21:59.52 | lcuk | so if you like his style you can keep reading for ages |
| 22:00.12 | mgedmin | it is gripping, yes |
| 22:00.39 | mgedmin | then again I finished Terry Goodkind's _Sword of Truth_ series, despite increasing temptation to throw books at walls |
| 22:00.58 | mgedmin | what helped me was that I had no clue about US politics or libertarianism back when I was reading it |
| 22:01.16 | lcuk | i think thats the same for most us government people ;) |
| 22:01.21 | javispedro | files a bug that's already fixed in Harmattan |
| 22:01.26 | SpeedEvil | Richard K Morgan - 'Altered Carbon'. Think the stainless steel rat + nanotech + bond + explosions. |
| 22:01.31 | SpeedEvil | Very awesome. |
| 22:01.33 | mgedmin | ooh, Morgan is fun |
| 22:01.38 | lcuk | javispedro, mm whats dat |
| 22:01.40 | mgedmin | except that I hated _Market Forces_ |
| 22:02.04 | javispedro | lcuk: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9316 , part of the albumart crazyness stuff I was commenting previously |
| 22:02.05 | povbot | Bug 9316: Tracker doesn't run album art heuristics for non-mp3 audio files |
| 22:02.05 | mgedmin | loved all his other books |
| 22:02.30 | t-tan | hi, does anybody know how to boot maemo from SD card? |
| 22:02.44 | mgedmin | t-tan, there used to be a wiki page describing that |
| 22:02.47 | mgedmin | I never tried it myself |
| 22:02.53 | Flandry | sounds awesome |
| 22:02.54 | mgedmin | I think you have to install bootmenu |
| 22:03.05 | Flandry | @speedevil |
| 22:03.13 | t-tan | i followed http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Bootmenu boot it always reboots... |
| 22:03.24 | mgedmin | ah :( |
| 22:04.16 | MohammadAG | t-tan, did u disable the watchdog? |
| 22:04.43 | t-tan | MohammadAG: good idea! I should do that |
| 22:04.43 | SpeedEvil | John Ringo is very good for explosions and high-tech soldiery. |
| 22:04.55 | Arif_ | hmm |
| 22:05.01 | Arif_ | where can I buy an N900 stylus |
| 22:05.22 | MohammadAG | a 100 bucks and I'll send mine to you |
| 22:05.26 | SpeedEvil | Arif_: ebay |
| 22:05.28 | MohammadAG | with free shipping |
| 22:05.33 | *** join/#maemo ljp (~quassel@CPE-58-173-176-153.wucz1.woo.bigpond.net.au) |
| 22:05.40 | RST38h | "Sex, violence, destruction of property" - three qualities of good sf according to Heinlein |
| 22:05.52 | javispedro | genius. |
| 22:06.06 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: ringo tends to tick all those boxes. Not usually at the same time though. |
| 22:06.16 | Arif_ | sends MohammadAG Zimbabwean 100$ |
| 22:06.23 | MohammadAG | lol |
| 22:06.26 | *** join/#maemo cyndis (cyndis@v6.kapsi.fi) |
| 22:06.29 | RST38h | stopped reading this kind of stuff long time ago =( |
| 22:07.06 | MohammadAG | Arif_, http://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900 |
| 22:07.17 | Arif_ | hmm |
| 22:07.22 | *** join/#maemo choppa (~chigge@mnch-4d045e7b.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 22:07.30 | MohammadAG | they sell 3 packs |
| 22:08.03 | MohammadAG | (1, or 2/3 packs) |
| 22:08.22 | Arif_ | what weird language is that |
| 22:08.23 | Arif_ | xD |
| 22:08.41 | jaska | the language of mordor |
| 22:09.07 | Arif_ | I hope they accept paypal |
| 22:09.27 | MohammadAG | Arif_, finnish :) |
| 22:09.28 | SpeedEvil | You can't just paypal into mordor. |
| 22:09.46 | RST38h | you can't? |
| 22:09.47 | Flandry | Ah, so it *is* the language of Mordor |
| 22:09.50 | javispedro | mordor finnish |
| 22:10.26 | Arif_ | a "buy" button would be nice |
| 22:10.26 | Arif_ | :O |
| 22:10.27 | Flandry | Mordor: land of of the midnight sun and idyllic lakes |
| 22:10.43 | Arif_ | oh it's just hidden |
| 22:10.45 | Arif_ | and yay |
| 22:10.47 | Arif_ | paypal |
| 22:10.50 | mgedmin | Arif_, they do accept paypal! http://www.klc.fi/fin/ohje-en.php/ |
| 22:10.53 | colonelqubit | I'm trying to convince myself that $500 for a phone isn't too ludicrous. Dell has the n900 for $480 w/free ship. Any cheaper prices out there? |
| 22:11.12 | mgedmin | colonelqubit, please tell me they ship overseas ;) |
| 22:11.13 | *** join/#maemo hardaker2 (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 22:11.25 | Flandry | Call it a mobile computer and it will be easier to convince yourself ;) |
| 22:11.29 | Arif_ | they're â¬600 here |
| 22:11.31 | MohammadAG | Arif_, http://www.klc.fi/fin/ohje-en.php/ |
| 22:11.45 | SpeedEvil | And remember to count insurance. |
| 22:11.48 | mgedmin | well, 500 GBP |
| 22:12.01 | colonelqubit | SpeedEvil: "Dear Sauron, your Paypal account has been temporarily suspended for inappropriate activity, including taking a hit out on two little people. Sincerely, The PayPal Team" |
| 22:12.17 | Arif_ | a hit ? |
| 22:12.25 | mgedmin | found a 515 EUR deal for a N900 locally |
| 22:12.26 | RST38h | calls his "my precioussss" |
| 22:12.28 | colonelqubit | Arif: rather, a contract |
| 22:12.45 | mgedmin | accidentally eating them or something, I suppose |
| 22:13.01 | javispedro | has been calling his own "my preciousssss" for quite a while today, after 26 days of it being away. |
| 22:13.04 | Arif_ | orders 3 styli |
| 22:13.08 | mgedmin | "Dear Sauron, your order for the one ring has been delayed." |
| 22:13.20 | RST38h | javis: ah how have you survived? |
| 22:13.27 | Arif_ | calls his N900 a toy :D |
| 22:13.39 | javispedro | RST38h: n810, basically. |
| 22:13.55 | mgedmin | calls his N900 his "nokia", and his 6600 slide his "phone" |
| 22:14.00 | mgedmin | technically they're both Nokia phones |
| 22:14.06 | RST38h | ah right |
| 22:14.23 | Arif_ | has the original 6600 |
| 22:14.32 | RST38h | well, n900 is "neopadlog" as far as network names are concerned |
| 22:14.54 | mgedmin | is insufficiently inventive and calls his mg-n900-2.local |
| 22:14.59 | colonelqubit | SpeedEvil: Insurance for a $500, what was it?, ah yes, "mobile computer" might not be a bad idea, but it isn't cheap. 1 year is $64. |
| 22:15.11 | SpeedEvil | colonelqubit: no, it's not. |
| 22:15.21 | SpeedEvil | But neither is finding you sat on it, and have to replace it. |
| 22:15.25 | Arif_ | I refer to mine as the "en dokuzyüz" too :P |
| 22:15.29 | colonelqubit | SpeedEvil: fair 'nuff |
| 22:15.41 | mgedmin | 's had a little accident with a teapot |
| 22:15.42 | SpeedEvil | I figure that sitting on it has a rather higher percentage than 10% |
| 22:15.59 | Arif_ | mgedmin it didn't like tea? |
| 22:16.02 | javispedro | how often do you plan to sit on it? |
| 22:16.11 | mgedmin | Arif_, it survived unscathed, thankfully |
| 22:16.12 | javispedro | it all depends on that answer. |
| 22:16.19 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: I sat on my last two laptops. |
| 22:16.22 | Arif_ | I want a stylus insureance |
| 22:16.25 | mgedmin | javispedro, "expect" would be more accurate than "plan" |
| 22:16.32 | Arif_ | I'll lose mine every 2 weeks |
| 22:16.33 | Arif_ | :D |
| 22:17.10 | javispedro | 's n900 hasn't made any high jump yet. |
| 22:17.27 | Arif_ | mine flew into a girls lap once :D |
| 22:17.45 | javispedro | ah, my preciousss manually made albumart with patched meta tracker. |
| 22:17.46 | colonelqubit | at risk of talking myself out of buying an n900, does anyone have an idea of how soon we'll see cheaper maemo/meego phones on the market? |
| 22:18.17 | Arif_ | apparently it's not a good idea having it dangle around your neck in a moving bus |
| 22:18.18 | SpeedEvil | I have real doubts you'll see a cheaper maemo phone this year |
| 22:18.19 | Arif_ | -.- |
| 22:18.20 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (~david@c-67-174-39-138.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:18.28 | *** join/#maemo robink (~robink@fatcat.creosotehill.org) |
| 22:18.41 | SpeedEvil | Arif_: Well - if it introduces you to hot girls... |
| 22:18.43 | colonelqubit | Though the geek factor is nice, I don't really *need* two cameras on my phone, for example... :P |
| 22:18.58 | SpeedEvil | colonelqubit: the front camera will cost nokia under a dollar |
| 22:19.00 | *** join/#maemo benh (~benh@54.200.49.122-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 22:19.14 | cehteh | most high end phones have two cams .. and the front cam is a 50 pence thing, that doesnt add much to the cost |
| 22:19.31 | *** join/#maemo sarah93 (sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 22:19.41 | *** join/#maemo richieeee72 (~richard@host86-156-152-171.range86-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 22:19.41 | RST38h | 50 pences is a lot when it comes to mass producing electronics |
| 22:19.56 | Arif_ | 50 cent? |
| 22:20.01 | Arif_ | I doubt it costs nokia 3 cents |
| 22:20.06 | colonelqubit | I'm always suspicious of the cameras in cell phones, what with them having to squeeze into such a thin form factor |
| 22:20.06 | SpeedEvil | it's more than that |
| 22:20.21 | javispedro | and the ir emitter must be so cheap they actually pay nokia for each shipped unit with one |
| 22:20.23 | SpeedEvil | the rear cam is of the order of $25 |
| 22:20.31 | cehteh | well most other components are more expensive .. gps, touchscreen, display, slider mechanism |
| 22:20.41 | SpeedEvil | the GPS is probably under $5 |
| 22:20.55 | Arif_ | I doubt the whole phone is above $100 |
| 22:20.55 | cehteh | maybe not sure |
| 22:21.01 | Arif_ | to produce :D |
| 22:21.01 | RST38h | cehteh: two main articles are the media processor and the display |
| 22:21.03 | cehteh | a lot flash storage also adds up |
| 22:21.22 | RST38h | cehteh: yea, the RAM/ROM chip is probably the next on the BOM |
| 22:21.47 | colonelqubit | cehteh: yes, I was going to suspect that the flash storage and screen were $$, beyond initial development outlay |
| 22:21.57 | cehteh | and my guess will be that the n900 successor may be disappointing for geeks |
| 22:22.04 | cehteh | more WAF less features |
| 22:22.28 | Arif_ | as long as it has better speakers |
| 22:22.31 | Arif_ | >:) |
| 22:22.39 | cehteh | the speakers are not *that* bad |
| 22:22.47 | Flandry | I think they're great |
| 22:22.54 | SpeedEvil | screen is only $35 to replace. |
| 22:22.57 | cehteh | well great is something else :P |
| 22:23.03 | Arif_ | Flandry, no |
| 22:23.06 | SpeedEvil | (and another $30 for the touchscreen) |
| 22:23.08 | Arif_ | unless you come from the eyephone |
| 22:23.11 | Flandry | we're talking something that fits in a hand |
| 22:23.20 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (~millenomi@93-35-147-212.ip55.fastwebnet.it) |
| 22:23.34 | cehteh | Arif_: i opt for a subwoofer you can plug into the headphone jack .. that would fix it |
| 22:23.39 | Arif_ | Flandry, may I introduce you to the Nokia 5800, 6233, and N95 (8GB) |
| 22:23.56 | Arif_ | they're all smaller than the N900! |
| 22:24.02 | cehteh | i mean with decent support. .. that the headphone jack then really carries only bass signal |
| 22:24.12 | sarah93 | wow you should check this http://bit.ly/bFi9I4 |
| 22:24.15 | RST38h | N95 is a freaking brick |
| 22:24.22 | Flandry | i don't really know those but the comparisons suggested the N95 is similar in sound quality |
| 22:24.25 | javispedro | I hate how each device I've had basically has more background noise than the previous one. |
| 22:24.35 | *** join/#maemo sarah93 (sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 22:24.35 | javispedro | s/noise/hissss |
| 22:24.36 | cehteh | anyways .. i am mostly hearing with headphones so i dont really care |
| 22:24.46 | RST38h | javis: Hey I have got a doorbell and it has no background noise |
| 22:24.55 | Flandry | in any case it's much batter than my previous featurephone, and that one had great speakers for its time by the reviews |
| 22:25.00 | Arif_ | you can't hear speech from the N900 speakers |
| 22:25.03 | Arif_ | when outside xD |
| 22:25.07 | *** join/#maemo sarah93 (sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 22:25.19 | Flandry | really? |
| 22:25.31 | Arif_ | well, hardly |
| 22:25.50 | *** join/#maemo sarah93 (sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 22:26.17 | Flandry | I am talking about speakerphone mode |
| 22:26.24 | cehteh | double as long battery time would be on my list, yes |
| 22:26.34 | *** join/#maemo Omegamoon (~egoe@demolitionman.xs4all.nl) |
| 22:26.37 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 22:26.40 | *** join/#maemo sarah93 (sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 22:26.51 | Arif_ | well it's nearly impossible to watch a movie/listen to radio on the N900 speakers |
| 22:26.51 | Arif_ | ;p |
| 22:26.53 | Flandry | still haven't gotten used to holding my PDA to my face :D |
| 22:27.11 | *** join/#maemo sarah93 (sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 22:27.11 | Flandry | who uses speakers for the radio? |
| 22:27.36 | javispedro | they're Ok |
| 22:27.41 | Arif_ | so you can hear your surrounding |
| 22:27.44 | Arif_ | when doing something |
| 22:27.49 | Arif_ | and leave the phone somewhere in the middle |
| 22:27.51 | Flandry | ah |
| 22:27.57 | Arif_ | I want to walk 3 steps away from it :) |
| 22:27.57 | *** join/#maemo sarah93 (sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 22:28.11 | colonelqubit | does the FM transmitter work well? |
| 22:28.17 | Arif_ | yes |
| 22:28.21 | Arif_ | for me it does |
| 22:28.36 | Flandry | well i wouldn't expect to be able to set a phone down and hear it from somewhere elsare for |
| 22:28.37 | colonelqubit | I've never had a phone or mp3 player with the feature, but it sounds like a slick idea |
| 22:28.55 | Arif_ | Flandry, aw |
| 22:29.03 | Arif_ | I was used to it with my older phone |
| 22:29.07 | Arif_ | maybe I'm just spoilt :) |
| 22:29.16 | Flandry | maybe :) |
| 22:29.19 | Arif_ | colonelqubit, it hisses somewhat but that's fixed with FMBoost |
| 22:29.29 | colonelqubit | Arif_: ah, okay |
| 22:29.36 | sarah93 | wow you should check this http://bit.ly/bFi9I4 |
| 22:29.38 | Arif_ | and you even get the artist/album/title if your radio has RDS :D |
| 22:29.43 | colonelqubit | nice |
| 22:29.47 | Flandry | Well i came on to ask about the maintainer for poppler qt and got sucked into this blackhole of time |
| 22:29.53 | *** join/#maemo sarah93 (sarah@BSN-176-138-210.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 22:29.54 | Flandry | gotta get work done, ttyl :) |
| 22:29.59 | Arif_ | lol |
| 22:30.06 | Arif_ | at 23:30 on a Saturday night? |
| 22:30.35 | *** join/#maemo Flandry (~quassel@c-71-192-162-102.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 22:30.53 | Flandry | only 17:30 here; the night is young |
| 22:31.07 | Arif_ | living in the past are you :P |
| 22:31.07 | Flandry | such is the life (sic) of a phd candidate :P |
| 22:31.31 | sarah93 | wow you should check this http://bit.ly/bFi9I4 |
| 22:31.37 | sarah93 | wow you should check this http://bit.ly/bFi9I4 |
| 22:31.55 | Arif_ | lol |
| 22:32.06 | Arif_ | I SO WANT TO CLICK THAT |
| 22:32.44 | nid0 | way ahead of you! |
| 22:32.54 | Arif_ | o rly |
| 22:33.02 | nid0 | i earnt him a euro towards a bullshit probably nonexistant prize, it seems |
| 22:33.15 | Arif_ | BUT BUT |
| 22:33.20 | Arif_ | the nick was sarah! |
| 22:33.31 | Arif_ | it must be a girl! |
| 22:33.34 | nid0 | clearly a girl then |
| 22:34.04 | Arif_ | transmits some Turkish music to nid0's radio |
| 22:34.31 | nid0 | turns dream theater back up |
| 22:34.38 | Arif_ | xD |
| 22:35.25 | Arif_ | hits nid0 over the head with his saz |
| 22:40.52 | Arif_ | awww |
| 22:40.58 | Arif_ | N900 is not getting free Ovi |
| 22:41.05 | Arif_ | .....maps |
| 22:41.28 | cehteh | who needs that with osm.. |
| 22:41.37 | *** join/#maemo bearkitten (~vladi@cpe-75-80-173-106.san.res.rr.com) |
| 22:41.41 | Arif_ | dunno |
| 22:41.44 | Arif_ | I don't use navigation :D |
| 22:42.47 | Arif_ | I want bug 9020 fixed that's all :D |
| 22:42.48 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9020 Media player crashes when trying to search in ''All songs'' |
| 22:42.52 | Arif_ | go away |
| 22:42.54 | Arif_ | stupid bot :( |
| 22:43.33 | *** join/#maemo sp3001 (~chatzilla@hoasnet-fe21dd00-183.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:43.34 | cehteh | i want the cam able to write to no fat filesystems |
| 22:44.06 | Arif_ | hmm |
| 22:44.14 | Arif_ | but non fat filesystem can't be mounted on wind00z |
| 22:44.25 | cehteh | i dont care |
| 22:44.45 | *** join/#maemo tchan (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) |
| 22:44.54 | Arif_ | but everyone loves windows ! ;P |
| 22:45.39 | cehteh | i dont say everyone should reformat |
| 22:46.03 | Arif_ | but really that should be fixed too yes |
| 22:46.08 | cehteh | but that the cam only stores on fat is stupid |
| 22:46.24 | Arif_ | sounds like a lame limitation to me =} |
| 22:46.43 | cehteh | very likely artifical |
| 22:47.27 | Arif_ | hmm |
| 22:47.32 | Arif_ | mp3tag has a new version apparently! |
| 22:47.40 | cehteh | may be it should be the other way around and reject ubifs |
| 22:48.13 | Arif_ | OH WELL |
| 22:48.16 | Arif_ | oh well* |
| 22:48.16 | cehteh | i'll look int this sometime next |
| 22:48.22 | Arif_ | you never know what Nokia's upto :D |
| 22:50.12 | cehteh | i dont care |
| 22:50.20 | *** join/#maemo EspadaV8_L (~espadav8@unaffiliated/espadav8) |
| 22:57.16 | *** join/#maemo Aranel (~Aranel@88.232.255.59) |
| 22:57.16 | *** join/#maemo Aranel (~Aranel@unaffiliated/aranel) |
| 22:57.20 | colonelqubit | Arif_: You can mount ext2/ext3 on windows |
| 22:57.30 | *** part/#maemo sivang (~sivan@ubuntu/member/sivang) |
| 22:57.35 | jacekowski | not really |
| 22:57.42 | Arif_ | wh ywould I want to :p |
| 22:57.44 | jacekowski | it's only ext2 that you can mount |
| 22:57.50 | Arif_ | I don't have any media in that format O.o |
| 22:57.55 | colonelqubit | Arif_: ext2fsdhttp://www.ext2fsd.com/ |
| 22:57.58 | jacekowski | and there is no drivers for it bultin |
| 22:58.18 | colonelqubit | oh, it's not built-in, but that way you don't have to format all of your media as FAT32 |
| 22:58.19 | jacekowski | colonelqubit: it fucks up filesystem more often than it doesn't |
| 22:58.35 | Arif_ | I format mine as NTFS :P |
| 22:58.38 | colonelqubit | I've had good experiences w/it |
| 22:58.51 | jacekowski | colonelqubit: try mounting unclean FS with it |
| 22:58.51 | nid0 | home users arent going to have to want to install extra shit on windows to just make their n900 plug in and show up |
| 22:58.52 | colonelqubit | that can work, too |
| 22:59.26 | colonelqubit | fair 'nuff |
| 22:59.31 | Arif_ | home users don't know what a filesystem or driver is |
| 22:59.34 | Arif_ | :) |
| 22:59.53 | nid0 | exactly, they want to just plug it in and have it work |
| 23:01.00 | Arif_ | is a home user =} |
| 23:01.02 | cehteh | anyways .. anyone knows/investigates how the camera takes pictures and saves them? |
| 23:01.03 | colonelqubit | the 800lb Windows juggernaut wins again. So sad |
| 23:01.18 | jacekowski | colonelqubit: it's about simplicity |
| 23:01.26 | jacekowski | colonelqubit: and fat32 is much simpler fs btw. |
| 23:01.30 | cehteh | there is the omapcamd and the camera-ui ... |
| 23:01.37 | jacekowski | colonelqubit: you can read and write it using 8bit uC |
| 23:01.40 | Arif_ | if everyone was using ext2 that one'd "win" |
| 23:02.13 | colonelqubit | jacekowski: too bad Microsoft likes to sue people for using fat32 |
| 23:02.26 | nid0 | clearly ntfs is the way to go tbh!:( |
| 23:02.36 | cehteh | i wonder if nokia has licensed it :P |
| 23:03.41 | Arif_ | I wonder what happens if I format the 27GB to NTFS |
| 23:04.02 | cehteh | cam prolly cant write to ntfs either |
| 23:04.12 | *** join/#maemo SWFu64 (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu) |
| 23:04.38 | nid0 | if you format the mmc to ntfs |
| 23:04.44 | nid0 | the n900 will probably say "fuck that" |
| 23:04.50 | *** join/#maemo `0660 (~olli@ppp121-45-207-145.lns20.cbr1.internode.on.net) |
| 23:05.02 | Arif_ | the media player sesm to say that a lot :P |
| 23:05.10 | jacekowski | as somebody said |
| 23:05.20 | jacekowski | nokia has a list of patents they don't give a shit about |
| 23:05.40 | Arif_ | apparently Apple didn't read that list ;( |
| 23:05.59 | cehteh | needs symlinks on the filesystem .. fat doesnt support symlinks .. grr |
| 23:06.44 | cehteh | maybe i reformat the internal storage to ext3 or ext4 and use fat on the uSD |
| 23:07.26 | Arif_ | you should! |
| 23:07.41 | *** join/#maemo kakashi_ (~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi) |
| 23:08.01 | *** join/#maemo koupsa (~koupsa@AStrasbourg-151-1-8-25.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 23:08.25 | ali1234 | does anyone know why the camera app needs fat? |
| 23:08.43 | *** join/#maemo user__ (~user@static-host119-73-44-205.link.net.pk) |
| 23:08.44 | t_s_o | ugh, seems like the big cultural change on the forum is the "me wants working feature x, now!" vs "hmm, could be nice if it could do x", and the willingness to report bugs in a factual, calm way... |
| 23:08.52 | user__ | hi |
| 23:09.06 | t_s_o | or lack of latter, that is... |
| 23:09.21 | cehteh | t_s_o: no wonder |
| 23:09.35 | t_s_o | cehteh? |
| 23:09.42 | cehteh | with the current roller-coaster ride, nokia treats the community |
| 23:09.46 | pupnik | "The legacy that we leave on this earth comes down to the principles by which we lived. It is the ideas we hold, and the way we've pursued them that are the source of our immortality." - Lew Rockwell |
| 23:10.10 | cehteh | and a lot more end-users and not geeks buying the device now too |
| 23:10.19 | Arif_ | meh |
| 23:10.31 | Arif_ | everyone on the forum is saying that you should've researched before buying it |
| 23:10.33 | Arif_ | which is stupid ;P |
| 23:10.40 | t_s_o | heh, yep, i do wonder how many of the N900 users are teens with dads credit card... |
| 23:10.55 | cehteh | yeah .. the more people buy now, the better |
| 23:11.07 | Arif_ | hey, I'm a teen with my own money |
| 23:11.08 | Arif_ | ;( |
| 23:11.16 | *** join/#maemo jacekowski (jacekowski@jacekowski.org) |
| 23:11.28 | cehteh | well .. if all developers have a n900 they prolly dont want the successor model |
| 23:12.02 | ab3339 | u should v researched than :) |
| 23:12.04 | cehteh | so nokia should be forced to provide meego for the n900 too, otherwise they dry out of community developers |
| 23:12.24 | *** join/#maemo jebba (~jebba@Ploegsma.cwx.net) |
| 23:12.26 | pupnik | there is an interesting point cehteh |
| 23:12.30 | *** join/#maemo tgalal_ (~tarek@41.196.100.216) |
| 23:12.34 | cehteh | and comparing mamemo.org vs ovi store repos you clearly see where the hammer hangs |
| 23:12.47 | Arif_ | ovi store? |
| 23:12.51 | Arif_ | what store :P |
| 23:13.08 | cehteh | pupnik: i always saied that .. kids: code for the device you own, dont care about the rest |
| 23:13.29 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (~david@c-67-174-39-138.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:13.38 | *** join/#maemo UAE (~hardboy@95.66.38.241) |
| 23:13.56 | t_s_o | cehteh: i guess thats why nokia was handing out free devices for devs |
| 23:14.16 | t_s_o | tho that discount program got fumbled... |
| 23:14.26 | cehteh | t_s_o: well i dont know how big the return (in sense of work done) was |
| 23:14.40 | MohammadAG | anyone using Vagulume? |
| 23:14.49 | t_s_o | to i guess the fumble came from a "missunderstanding" between "old" nokia and "new" nokia |
| 23:14.52 | t_s_o | tho |
| 23:15.04 | cehteh | there where likely 1000 devices handed out .. but possibly only a few of the owners do really develop apps on it |
| 23:15.14 | *** join/#maemo SWFu64 (~SWFu@unaffiliated/swfu) |
| 23:15.15 | t_s_o | cehteh: it seemed to shift the focus away from the N8x0 at least |
| 23:15.17 | cehteh | and there are many many more devs who had already to buy a device |
| 23:16.15 | cehteh | and consider my very little contribution to xchat .. which took me about a workday to do, i i had coded on a freelance base that work would almost equal a n900 .. |
| 23:16.28 | cehteh | (ok forget about taxes) |
| 23:17.29 | MiXu- | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:17.38 | MiXu- | I was wondering why it was so damn slow |
| 23:18.08 | cehteh | .. thats why i need symlinks on the device .. to install the sdk there in a chroot |
| 23:18.31 | *** part/#maemo richieeee72 (~richard@host86-156-152-171.range86-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 23:18.39 | pupnik | anyone here put a compiler on N900? |
| 23:19.00 | MiXu- | I use my N900 as my main phone. I'll keep my dev stuff far away from it until it's "ready for testing". :) |
| 23:19.08 | cehteh | you cant yet .. at least not easily |
| 23:19.27 | cehteh | the devel/sdk packages are not optified |
| 23:19.51 | cehteh | but you need some decent filesystem space to put it on it |
| 23:19.54 | ali1234 | create a loopback ext2 image on the fat partition, mount, install chroot |
| 23:19.56 | villager | cehteh: my cyborgeye app is capable of taking pictures much like camera-ui, though that's not my app's purpose, I just threw some code in for fun |
| 23:20.02 | pupnik | :( cant i trick packages into installing into mmc somehow cehteh ? |
| 23:20.15 | cehteh | and symlinks .. |
| 23:20.39 | cehteh | pupnik: my plan is to reformat some space to ext3 or ext4 and doing a chroot there |
| 23:20.40 | pupnik | ty ali1234 guess a chroot is the way |
| 23:20.51 | cehteh | completely isolating it from the rest of the device |
| 23:21.01 | villager | cehteh: it'd be pretty easy to use nokia's gstreamer stuff to make a camera-ui clone |
| 23:21.17 | cehteh | yeah loopback ext2 or fuseext2 may work too |
| 23:21.54 | cehteh | villager: i dont want a clone .. and who here figured out that its really hard to access some special features like whitebalance focus and stuff? |
| 23:22.36 | villager | cehteh: it's easy with the nokia's gstreamer stuff, hard without |
| 23:22.44 | cehteh | villager: i am thinking about figuring out how it writes stuff to the disk and hack a LD_PRELOAD in which cheats it pretending anything is a FAT |
| 23:22.45 | *** join/#maemo Acedip (~ani@fedora/Acedip) |
| 23:23.02 | ali1234 | cehteh: can you strace the camera app to see why it fails? |
| 23:23.02 | javispedro | cehteh: optifying a package is trivial |
| 23:23.14 | javispedro | unless it's not, of course. |
| 23:23.22 | villager | cehteh: I unfortunately found out that if I used the binary blob from nokia, I could no longer control exposure manually, the automatic stuff kept overriding it... oh well |
| 23:23.32 | cehteh | ali1234: sure ... but not completely trivial and i had no time/success yet |
| 23:23.40 | cehteh | the camera is a daemon and a gui ... |
| 23:23.59 | cehteh | villager: yeah you straced it already or? |
| 23:24.09 | javispedro | iirc the camera FAT problem was solved in tmo |
| 23:24.18 | cehteh | dont you think the ld_preload would be the simplest hack and valuable for anyone? |
| 23:24.30 | cehteh | javispedro: how? link? |
| 23:24.40 | villager | cehteh: yes... it calls private ioctls in the kernel, and the kernel relays the request to the userspace daemon |
| 23:25.36 | cehteh | does the daemon write to /tmp and then some spool copies it over or does the daemon write it to the device? |
| 23:25.48 | villager | the daemon isn't responsible for disk i/o |
| 23:25.55 | cehteh | i noticed that the daemon has a optarg pointing to /tmp |
| 23:26.23 | cehteh | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:26.29 | javispedro | cehteh: "This seems like the best solution to me. Perhaps now that the camera is working with non FAT partitions the loopback file is not necessary." http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=499825&postcount=72 |
| 23:26.38 | javispedro | but I didn't found the actual solution. |
| 23:26.51 | javispedro | my guess -- some case sensitiveness issue. |
| 23:27.01 | villager | cehteh: that's probably a unix socket or something |
| 23:27.32 | villager | possibly the way the daemon communicates with the kernel |
| 23:28.53 | javispedro | or a permission issue. I doubt the camera app checks the target filesystem. |
| 23:28.56 | cehteh | strangely i never see anything existing there |
| 23:29.14 | villager | cehteh: the file is probably unlinked as soon as the socket is connected |
| 23:29.23 | cehteh | yeah |
| 23:29.50 | villager | cehteh: do you really have issues with camera-ui and fat? I thought I read that it's a permission issue, not a filesystem issue? |
| 23:30.31 | cehteh | i have no issues with the camera ui .. but i need a better (unix) filesystem |
| 23:30.39 | cehteh | needing symlinks |
| 23:30.56 | cehteh | well and performance and stability .. and recoverability ... |
| 23:31.58 | cehteh | javispedro: yes all 'workarounds' i seen involve keeping a fat filesystem .. isnt that crap!? |
| 23:32.10 | mgedmin | what is that thing about camera and fat anyway? |
| 23:32.14 | mgedmin | is there a bug? |
| 23:32.16 | javispedro | cehteh: not IMO, but well. |
| 23:32.38 | cehteh | mgedmin: nobody knows |
| 23:32.59 | javispedro | cehteh: i'm pretty sure that if he said it's fixed, then it's fixed without a fat partition anywhere. |
| 23:33.03 | cehteh | some say its a feature preventing accidental writes to the rootfs when the mmc is unmounted |
| 23:33.20 | cehteh | javispedro: show me how/where please .. |
| 23:33.29 | mgedmin | ah! |
| 23:33.33 | mgedmin | makes sense |
| 23:33.34 | ali1234 | that would make sense. usb mass storage mode screws us again |
| 23:33.54 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (~david@c-67-174-39-138.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:33.55 | javispedro | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=479171#post479171 |
| 23:33.58 | mgedmin | let me guess, the camera app is closed source? |
| 23:34.04 | cehteh | yes |
| 23:34.10 | javispedro | see above post. |
| 23:34.19 | SpeedEvil | It's so awesome, it's gotta be closed! |
| 23:34.27 | mgedmin | oh, a permissions issue |
| 23:34.29 | timeless_mbp | chuckles |
| 23:34.33 | javispedro | as I though. |
| 23:34.33 | mgedmin | malice, incompetence, etc. |
| 23:34.42 | timeless_mbp | claiming that the camera has a bug |
| 23:34.42 | javispedro | and they spent nearly 5 pages trying to guess what was happening. |
| 23:34.47 | jacekowski | everything can be reversed |
| 23:34.55 | timeless_mbp | for a situation which it explicitly doesn't support |
| 23:34.56 | cehteh | javispedro: cool |
| 23:34.57 | timeless_mbp | is insane |
| 23:35.05 | timeless_mbp | would you guys please reprogram your 'bug' reporters? |
| 23:35.22 | timeless_mbp | as fat doesn't support ownership |
| 23:35.35 | timeless_mbp | it hardly makes sense for the camera app to try to create a folder with a specific owner... |
| 23:35.41 | DocScrutinizer | cehteh: (feature) MEH |
| 23:35.52 | javispedro | every bug is "a situation the program doesn't explicit support". now the question is "was the program expected to support it?" |
| 23:35.53 | cehteh | hehe . 'some say' .. |
| 23:35.53 | mgedmin | it's Not Right |
| 23:36.21 | timeless_mbp | javispedro: it's very clear that a non fat partition was *not* a supported configuration |
| 23:36.25 | cehteh | timeless_mbp: well that pretty well explains why it doesnt work and how it can be fixed |
| 23:36.31 | *** join/#maemo Nukkuva (~a@86.110.226.17) |
| 23:36.31 | *** join/#maemo Nukkuva (~a@unaffiliated/nukkuva) |
| 23:36.37 | cehteh | going to reformat |
| 23:37.02 | javispedro | 's happy with FAT |
| 23:37.14 | timeless_mbp | it seems odd to me that 'camera' would be able to create a folder owned by root |
| 23:37.19 | timeless_mbp | didn't think camera ran as root |
| 23:37.29 | *** join/#maemo lbt (~david@Maemo/community/contributor/lbt) |
| 23:37.29 | *** join/#maemo lbt__ (~david@78.32.229.233) |
| 23:37.40 | timeless_mbp | camera is running as user |
| 23:37.41 | mgedmin | timeless_mbp, see, this is why I want my computers to run open-source software, because a trivially-supportable combination of features gets rejected as "NOTABUG according to The Holy Spec" |
| 23:37.42 | cehteh | the camera daemon does |
| 23:37.43 | ali1234 | the weird daemon thing might do it |
| 23:38.13 | timeless_mbp | cehteh: does it have a name? |
| 23:38.17 | cehteh | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:38.21 | timeless_mbp | ps doesn't find wierd-camera-daemon |
| 23:38.23 | mgedmin | fixing the thing in an open-source project would take less energy than all this arguing about what is a bug and what isn't |
| 23:38.23 | villager | it'd surprise me if the daemon did it |
| 23:38.40 | ali1234 | +1 |
| 23:38.43 | Arif_ | build your own open source phone :P |
| 23:38.48 | javispedro | I doubt the daemon does the write |
| 23:38.53 | timeless_mbp | build your own open source camera |
| 23:38.54 | villager | however, camera-ui is autostarted by a root process, perhaps it happens before the camera-ui drops permissions |
| 23:39.03 | timeless_mbp | javispedro: surely strace could tell you quickly? |
| 23:39.15 | javispedro | timeless: strings told me it even faster |
| 23:39.23 | javispedro | s/it/ |
| 23:39.36 | timeless_mbp | what did it say? |
| 23:39.46 | javispedro | no DCIM, MYDOCS, nor link to hildon-fm |
| 23:40.18 | DocScrutinizer | ~mgedmin++ |
| 23:40.51 | cehteh | ok as soon maemeo mapper finished with the map downloading i make a backup and reformat |
| 23:41.02 | javispedro | camera-ui contains both mydocs and dcim strings. |
| 23:41.03 | cehteh | lets try this extended kernel thing :) |
| 23:41.25 | cehteh | going ext4 .. |
| 23:41.58 | villager | timeless_mbp: camera-ui is started at boot by the dsme subsystem, which runs as root... it's possible that the camera-ui doesn't change uid to user immediately, but mkdirs a bit first, I suppose |
| 23:42.15 | timeless_mbp | villager: i'll buy that |
| 23:42.25 | ali1234 | so camera-ui goes off making directories and who knows what else before dropping privileges that sounds like a bug to me |
| 23:42.41 | cehteh | does anyone of you know whats the underlying blocksize of the emmc and uSD? |
| 23:42.43 | ali1234 | but it is also possible the camera-ui just asks the daemon to make the directory |
| 23:43.07 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: ~128K I think |
| 23:43.19 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: based on some preliminary benchmarks |
| 23:43.44 | cehteh | eww ... to big to use as filesystem blocksize .. i hoped for 16k or 32k |
| 23:43.51 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (Smily@BSN-143-112-44.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 23:44.14 | SpeedEvil | I haven't worked it out properly though. |
| 23:44.31 | cehteh | well such big blocks are reasonable for flash |
| 23:44.39 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 23:45.03 | cehteh | 4k blocks are the biggiest for ext |
| 23:45.41 | javispedro | stripe-width to the rescue I guess. |
| 23:46.25 | *** join/#maemo teilzeitstudent (~teilzeits@p5DCCCC07.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:46.26 | cehteh | yes my thinking |
| 23:46.36 | cehteh | whats the 'fragment' size for? |
| 23:46.39 | *** join/#maemo jebba (~jebba@Ploegsma.cwx.net) |
| 23:46.41 | villager | ali1234: after having written my own app using the nokia camera framework, I highly doubt it's the daemon's responsibility to write the files, the gstreamer plugin handles everything needed to transfer the photo to the user process, and lets it deal with storing it to disk or whatever |
| 23:46.43 | nid0 | ok so dumb question, what are sane settings within maemo mapper to get it to predownload a realistic amount of map data? |
| 23:47.01 | villager | ali1234: so my guess is that it's a bug in camera-ui making directories before dropping privileges |
| 23:47.30 | cehteh | nid0: dont .. i am sucking and the servers are damn slow :P |
| 23:47.37 | SpeedEvil | nid0: where you need to go, to the level you need it to. |
| 23:47.38 | nid0 | just ticked it to download me zoom levels 1-4 of google maps and it's asked me to confirm the download of (and i quote) 1041882136 maps |
| 23:47.40 | SpeedEvil | And no more. |
| 23:47.46 | nid0 | seems a little off to me..? |
| 23:47.49 | DocScrutinizer | points to cam frontend "sorage location" setting |
| 23:47.52 | SpeedEvil | 1-4? |
| 23:47.59 | DocScrutinizer | sTorage |
| 23:48.00 | SpeedEvil | 1-4 should be I think... |
| 23:48.04 | cehteh | well consider that every increased (lower) level quadruples the data |
| 23:48.18 | SpeedEvil | 256 tiles on the 4th level |
| 23:48.34 | SpeedEvil | nid0: maybe it's backwards, and 1-4 is the highest zoom? |
| 23:48.38 | nid0 | it doesnt quite break down exactly how much data is involved in the download of that 1.04 billion maps though.. |
| 23:48.51 | nid0 | its 4 of the most detailed, 0 is most detailed, 20 is like the whole planet |
| 23:48.56 | cehteh | nid0: i am at 6GB downloaded now or so :) |
| 23:49.10 | nid0 | all i want is just a reasonably accurate map of the uk, basically :< |
| 23:49.18 | *** join/#maemo bearkitten (~vladi@m420e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 23:49.19 | SpeedEvil | binary maps use _LOTS_ of space |
| 23:49.23 | nid0 | yeah no kidding |
| 23:49.28 | SpeedEvil | consider a bit per meter. |
| 23:49.32 | SpeedEvil | meter square |
| 23:49.51 | SpeedEvil | that's over 100km*100km 10^10 bits. |
| 23:49.54 | cehteh | level 6 or so should enogh .. open maep .. zoom full in .. |
| 23:49.56 | cehteh | that 0 |
| 23:49.56 | SpeedEvil | or a gigabyte |
| 23:50.09 | cehteh | and then zoom out and count 1 2 3 ... |
| 23:51.00 | nid0 | am i right in thinking that the default lat/long in the manage maps section is the area you're currently actually looking at on the map? |
| 23:51.09 | SpeedEvil | and that zoom level may not be enough for navigating in small streets |
| 23:51.17 | cehteh | yes (i hope so) |
| 23:51.35 | cehteh | just does some insane downloading |
| 23:51.37 | SpeedEvil | Just remember you can't legally cache google tiles. |
| 23:51.48 | cehteh | about 100km around where i live |
| 23:51.52 | nid0 | screw legally, i just want a working nav suite |
| 23:51.53 | SpeedEvil | And also that if you're gonna hammer the OSM servers be moderate. |
| 23:52.01 | *** part/#maemo MrGoose1 (~cache@5ac020e5.bb.sky.com) |
| 23:52.07 | SpeedEvil | Tehy are almost maxing out their 100mb upstream at times |
| 23:52.14 | cehteh | has some squid hacks for OSM |
| 23:52.21 | SpeedEvil | And persistant downloaders will get banned. |
| 23:52.38 | nid0 | ..yeah zoom level right down to 0 does seem a little excessive for navigation |
| 23:52.40 | SpeedEvil | Do not use more than a couple of threads to download. |
| 23:52.41 | javispedro | who downloads non vectorial data from osm? |
| 23:52.51 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: many apps |
| 23:52.52 | cehteh | my squid will cache anything for 5 months or more .. no matter what expire time was attached there |
| 23:52.58 | cehteh | (only for osm tiles) |
| 23:53.08 | cehteh | making osm faster than google maps at home :) |
| 23:53.42 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: so maybe the 0-length-tiles issue in tango isn't exactly packet loss of my gprs? |
| 23:54.00 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: for OSM |
| 23:54.11 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: well - I doubt it - they aren't that flooded |
| 23:54.22 | SpeedEvil | it's just if everyone downloads it all... |
| 23:54.57 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (~david@c-67-174-39-138.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:55.08 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: yeah. Also tago map DL via USB seems to work fine |
| 23:55.20 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: (FR that is) |
| 23:56.57 | cehteh | wonders about bitmap maps vs vector maps .. bitmap cost a shitload of space, but prolly easier to decompress and more battery friendly than rendering vectors |
