IRC log for #maemo on 20100105

00:04.07jebbathis is bs. let me know when things are actually working again.
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00:06.47pupnikhow?
00:07.12pupnikjust hung device fnordianslip sorry ;)
00:08.20fnordianslippupnik, no worries, not urgent
00:08.28fnordianslipjebba: chill dude.
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00:08.42TomaszDfnordianslip, you still need it?
00:08.55fnordianslipoh go on then
00:09.05TomaszDhttp://paste-it.net/public/kfc2bad/
00:10.21fnordianslipTomaszD: cheers
00:10.28TomaszDnp
00:11.30fnordianslipIts just that I seem to be able to make Media Player crash when editing the NoWatchDirectory entry, and wanted to be sure I'd not buggered the file up elsewhere
00:11.40lardmannight all
00:12.29TomaszDNoWatchDirectory shouldn't make Media Player crash fnordianslip, you'll only get some critical errors in the tracker log
00:13.47fnordianslipthat's what i'd have thought.  check out https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7540
00:13.48povbot`Bug 7540: Media Player crashes viewing Music by Playlist
00:16.28TomaszDthat is quite a wall of text you have there
00:17.28TomaszDfnordianslip, anything interesting in trackerd.log ?
00:17.45fnordianslipdunno.  where is it?
00:18.08TomaszD/home/user/.local/share/tracker/trackerd.log off the top of my head
00:18.55TomaszDyou might get an error about a .camera folder missing, I've already reported that and it's confirmed
00:19.28fnordianslipis your wall of text comment down to me not using capitalisation?
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00:20.07TomaszDno, it's ok, it's just a lot of information
00:21.06TomaszDfnordianslip, so if you add podcast to nowatch and force re-indexing the bug doesn't occur
00:21.17TomaszDbut if you don't force re-indexing, media player dies
00:21.18TomaszD?
00:21.32fnordianslipnope.
00:21.47fnordianslipif i add podcast dir to nowatch, then reindex, mp dies.
00:22.00fnordianslipif i undo that change and reindex, mp doesn't die.
00:22.19fnordiansliphave now found that many other potential changes to nowatch also cause mp crash
00:22.21TomaszDbut none of this happens without the massive library?
00:22.35fnordianslipdunno. you try ?
00:23.00TomaszDtbh, I've had enough for today
00:23.05TomaszDespecially with tracker
00:23.05fnordianslipassuming you haven't a 'massive' library. which mine isn't :)
00:23.16TomaszDwhich died on me very often today
00:23.23fnordianslipdon't fancy the 3 hour wait to resync the library
00:23.35fnordiansliptracker very well behaved for me, except this issue
00:23.45fnordianslipruns well and quickly
00:24.10pupnik'well behaved'.  look when you open media player, you have to wait for many seconds for it to pull up thumbnails, and watch while it sorts them
00:24.13TomaszDyes, but if you screw up adding mimetypes, it'll segfault and kill your dog
00:24.21MohammadAGfound a bug :/
00:24.28MohammadAGsuppose a song's playing, and you're chatting, what would you use the volume keys for?
00:24.36pupnikchanging font size
00:24.39fnordianslipzooming?
00:24.39MohammadAGlol
00:24.51TomaszDMohammadAG, that's already fixed.
00:24.56MohammadAGwhere?
00:25.01TomaszDin the future
00:25.04MohammadAGlol
00:25.05TomaszD:)
00:25.17TomaszDno, seriously, it's fixed
00:25.36pupnikoh so when media is playing my application can't see the +/- buttons anymore
00:25.36MohammadAGgonna vote for it :p
00:25.36pupnik?
00:26.04MohammadAGactually I don't mind it zooming, but it should at least reflow the text!
00:26.12pupnikthat is an option i think
00:26.13TomaszDwhen you chat the volume buttons adjust volume for PR1.1
00:26.16TomaszDso don't bother
00:26.24pupnikchat in WHAT APP?
00:26.32TomaszDconversations app
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00:26.48pupnikok nm
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00:27.23pupnikthose buttons should be relevant to current app, not background processes
00:27.26pupniklike the keyboard
00:27.45TomaszDwell, afair, adjusting text size was unintended
00:27.45MohammadAGagain, I don't mind it, but it should reflow the text
00:28.01fnordianslipTomaszD:  just reindex with the podcasts dir in nowatch, and nothing interesting in the tracker log.  mp still errors.
00:28.15angasule>:| I hate this bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2747
00:28.17povbot`Bug 2747: inconsistent mmc device naming at boot time when one card is missing
00:28.37TomaszDfnordianslip, very strange
00:28.43MohammadAGhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5624
00:28.45povbot`Bug 5624: Zoom in/out in IM chat does not reflow contents
00:29.41TomaszDnice, so maybe it'll come back later as a feature
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00:29.51TomaszDthe current version I have adjusts volume
00:30.34Kamuiwow, that mysticrokks is a pure troll
00:30.43KamuiI haven't read a single post from him that isn'
00:30.53Kamuit  derogatory to the OP or just purely not helpful
00:35.58Kamuifirst official test of the N900 in real world settings for me
00:36.42Kamuiclosed the 8 hour work day with about 50% battery life, received about 90 jabber IM's on it while connected to wifi.  Im impressed
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00:37.26Kamuithen 1 hour of podcast at the gym, no charges and its at 50%.  I think this is a definite winner.  Could definately go rbiger battery though.
00:37.36KamuiAny news on the N97 battery fitting?
00:38.40timeless_mbpwtf?
00:38.40MohammadAGmugen said they're making a higher capacity one
00:38.47timeless_mbpOpenVPN requires Bash?
00:38.49Kamuiyea, Im still waiting o that
00:38.57Kamuibut I'd HEARD that the N97 batteries fit
00:39.06Kamuiboth the regular 1800mah and the extended 4amp
00:39.12Kamuiobviously the 4amp needs a new back
00:39.20timeless_mbphrm
00:39.20zashwoot?
00:39.24Kamuijust wondering if anyone had confirmed it
00:39.25MohammadAGno, they don't
00:39.26zash4Ah?
00:39.40MohammadAGAssuming you meant the 3600mAh one
00:39.46Kamuiyea, 3900mah N97 extended
00:39.49Kamuimaybe it was 3600
00:39.51MohammadAG3600
00:39.52Kamuibut yes
00:39.53GAN900Kamui, why would a BP-4L fit?
00:40.13GAN900Kamui, pinwise, sure, but it's too large for the battery bay.
00:40.14KamuiGAN900, I don't know, I only own the N95, an N80, and the N900
00:40.22Kamuiso I can't compare them
00:40.33dnaumovKamui: heh, I went from N80 to an N95 8gb to an N900
00:40.35Kamuijust read that on a blog
00:40.42Kamuiha ha, same fo rme dnaumov
00:40.52dnaumovKamui: looking back now, N80 was all kinds of horrible if we are honest :P
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00:40.54KamuiI did have the iPhone 2g, 3g, and 3gs in between the N95 and N900
00:40.58Kamuiyea
00:41.04KamuiThe N80 was awesome
00:41.04Jaffahas an N97 here. Battery much larger physically; doesn't fit in N900
00:41.07dnaumovN95 8gb is really really good tho
00:41.08Kamuiexcept it had too little memory
00:41.11Kamuiand BAD battery life
00:41.18Kamuiit was what lead me to the N95
00:41.25KamuiI love dthe N95
00:41.29KamuiI actually had the N95-3
00:41.31dnaumovmy fiance got my n95 8gb
00:41.32Kamuiwith an 8gig sim
00:41.37KamuiI wanted the N95-4
00:41.38dnaumovnow that I am using the N900
00:41.48Kamuibut It was like 200$ cheaper to get the N95-3
00:41.59dnaumovshe replaced some truly horrible "clamshell" s40 nokia
00:42.01Kamuitake the .5" screen size loss
00:42.05Kamuiha ha
00:42.14Kamuidnaumov, I had the 9300 communicator for a while too
00:42.15Kamuiwow
00:42.19Kamuithat was a piece of doodoo
00:42.21dnaumovoh god
00:42.23dnaumov9300
00:42.30Kamui9300i to boot
00:42.36Kamui2nd worst device I've ever owned
00:42.42KamuiI was in love iwth it fo rabout 1 week
00:42.46Kamuithen realized just how limiting it was
00:43.14TomaszDI had all sorts of Siemens phones before going for the e61 initially, then the e51, now n900
00:43.18KamuiI really considered the e90 for a while, but decided against it.  There were all types of reports of software not supporting the non standard resolution
00:43.21dnaumovKamui: you wouldnt believe the amount of small business users who got the 9300 and then I had to watch their faces when they called us up (I work at a major mobile/internet provider) and I got to tell them it does not actually have FAX support
00:43.36Kamuilol
00:43.37MohammadAGi went from the 6680 to N95 to N97 (sold) to the N73 (really unproductive period) to the N86 and finally the N900
00:43.38dnaumovwell not watch their faces, but I could imagine them pretty well
00:44.00Kamuidnaumov, I had an efaxing app on my 9300, it was mostly useless though
00:44.26Kamuiyou're talking about native fax support righ
00:44.27VDVsxJaffa, do you like the N97, I had one for a couple of weeks, didn't like it very much :)
00:44.39KamuiI noticed that its in the firmware, but it never worked...that must be why
00:44.44TomaszDyeah Jaffa, why do you even have the n97 in the first place? :)
00:45.01SplasPoodI *loved* my N95, one of the best phones I've ever owned.
00:45.05Kamuiwell, I hear the N97 mini is pretty nice
00:45.17dnaumovKamui: we cashed in on that and offered them an auto-answermachine converter service, they were given an additional mobile number which they could give out to people, if you sent a FAX to it, what is technically a gsm answer machine picked it up, converted the fax into a PDF and mailed it to the user via email
00:45.17Kamuiif you're looking for a consumer ready S60v5
00:45.29TomaszDthe n95 was and still is great, my father refuses to upgrade from it
00:45.41Kamuilol dnaumov sounds just like the efax service I had
00:45.42VDVsxmine N97 has a loan, one of the first release, it seems that the current fw version is much better
00:45.50VDVsx*was
00:45.53dnaumovKamui: it was a truly ugly hack, but it worked and it worked perfectly and we saved people time and money and cashed in some serious $
00:46.01Kamuinice
00:46.10MohammadAGhad the N97 from v10
00:47.13MohammadAGsold it when it got v20
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00:50.01dnaumovTomaszD: I dont blame him, N95 8gb is the best phone with pda features, while N900 is the best pda with phone features :)
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00:50.32TomaszDdnaumov, he has the basic model with the card slot, but indeed an 8gb card
00:50.45Kamuidnaumov, I hate to say it
00:50.51Kamuibut the N900 has TERRIBLE phone features
00:50.59Kamuiwell
00:51.01Kamuinot terrible
00:51.02Kamuibut incomplete
00:51.03TomaszDnot terrible phone features.
00:51.06SpeedEvildo you mean software wise/
00:51.06TomaszDyes.
00:51.18Kamuino, I love the N900s dialer and functionality
00:51.22Kamuiits just that its "lacking"
00:51.28SplasPoodThankfully I have not encountered many 'issues' with the N900 that appear to be tied to hardware
00:51.41Kamuiyea, every issue I've had has been software related
00:51.42dnaumovits finally a phone that actually 1) has 900 Mhz UMTS support 2) is not retarded
00:51.47dnaumovthat alone is a seller for me :p
00:51.58Kamuisee im bummed
00:52.07KamuiI willingly lost 3g to get the N900
00:52.28Kamuiwho would think they would put tmobiles ridiculous frequency instead of the NATiONWIDE At&T freq
00:52.51dnaumovah, you got screwed on that, we dont have that problem in Finland :)
00:53.01Kamuiyea, I know you jerk :)
00:53.02Kamuibut its ok
00:53.09KamuiIm mostly always in wifi coverage
00:53.14Kamuiand the N900 does wifi wonderfully
00:53.15simula_sticks to prepaid telephone and wifi
00:53.16redeemanKamui: at&t uses the ridiculous frequency
00:53.52MohammadAGredeeman, if they changed it they'd lose the iPhone
00:53.52Kamuiit uses standard us gsm frequency 1900mhz IIRC
00:53.58Kamuior 850, or both, Im not sure
00:54.11Kamuibut the point is, its not an obscure frequency in the 1700mhz band
00:54.13MohammadAGoh wait, doesn't the iPhone support the t-mobile 3G too?
00:54.14Kamuithat NOTHING else uses
00:54.16Kamuino
00:54.17Kamuiit doenst
00:54.29redeemanKamui: rest of the world doesn't use 850mhz
00:54.30Kamuiiphone is 850/1900/2100 only for umts
00:54.33KamuiI know
00:54.44Kamui2100mhz was in use in the US when 3g gsm rolled out
00:54.52KamuiI believe its now only recently become a free band
00:54.56Kamuiif thats the case
00:55.02KamuiI think its up for auction in 2012
00:55.34KamuiI read about this in 08, so some of my facts might be slighly off
00:55.38Kamuimainly dates
00:55.54jXKamui: No, you're mostly right
00:56.11Kamuianyway, I don't argue that it would have been nice had the US implemented 2100mhz for Umts
00:56.20KamuiI wouldn't have een locked out of enjoying an ASSLOAD of good devices
00:56.30Kamuimy second favorite device of all time was the HTC Exec
00:56.40Kamuibut I was unfortunate enough to get only GPRS on it
00:56.48Kamuino edge, only gprs and umts
00:56.57Kamuiand umts was 2100mhz only on that beauty
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00:57.19angasuleI can't get ad-hoc working *or* USB networking :(
00:57.38Kamuiand unfortunately, if you didn't have the 3800mah battery that trippled its size, using wifi yielded about 2 hours of battery life
00:57.46KamuiAND wifi didn't stay connected of course when the phone slept
00:57.49Kamuibut I digress
00:58.04angasuleI had to stand on the sidewalk outside a bar to check my mail today (yeah, I work in one of the main buildings of the largest ISP in the country but they don't have proper wifi...)
00:58.10Kamuithe N900 is a masterpiece,
00:58.22Kamuieww, that sucks
00:58.41SplasPoodMuch like all phones it doesn't seem to understand the concept of 'always try and reconnect' as it relates to IM transports
00:58.42Kamuiat my office we use EAP-FAST for authentication
00:58.48Kamuino support on the N900 for eap-fast yet
00:59.03angasuleI had never heard of EAP-FAST :?
00:59.04Kamuijust peap, and eap-tls iirc
00:59.28Kamuieap-fast is ciscos fast EAP authentication based on DC login credentials
00:59.31Kamuino token
00:59.50Kamuino certificate I meant
01:00.03Kamuithe token is built from the DC to the eap controller
01:00.15angasulethird largest telecom companies in the world (just checked)
01:01.46leon-hmm, ioquake3 doesn't install and keeps bitchin about a missing package (opengles-sgx-img-common)
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01:02.57Kamuiopenarena is the way to go :)
01:03.11Kamuihaven't tried ioquake3 yet, so thats not a very objective comment
01:03.22nomisbah, I can't reliably influence the order in the icon view for the videos within the media player.
01:03.24leon-well, I did have it up and running already
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01:04.26leon-Kamui, hmm.. openarena has the same issue
01:04.51Kamuiwhat happens?
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01:20.33angasuleoh, well
01:20.44angasulewhenever I try to use USB networking the n810 just reboots itself
01:22.01Kamuianyone have Mplayer working ont eh N900
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01:22.08pupnikyes
01:22.10Kamuitried the version in extras-devel
01:22.15Kamuibut it freezes after 2 seconds
01:22.21pupniktry a different file
01:22.28KamuiI've been trying mytube
01:22.42Kamuiill try something manually
01:22.48SpeedEvilwfm
01:23.02pupnikyoutube may be too slow to stream
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01:23.38pupnikanybody here use anything to reformat / indent C code?
01:24.09pupnikah 'man indent'
01:25.42Kamuiworks
01:25.47Kamuibut its quite a bit slow
01:25.51Kamuithe audio is way behind the image
01:26.03Kamuiprobably just need to adjust some flags
01:27.50Kamuipupnik
01:27.54Kamuiusing a frontend?
01:27.57Kamuior just the terminal
01:28.50angasulethis is exasperating, I have no way of getting stuff into my N810, no card reader, no USB networking and no wifi ad-hoc :(
01:29.27fnordianslipangasule: bluetooth ?
01:29.36angasulenope
01:29.45fnordianslipwhy not?
01:30.08angasuleI don't have any bluetooth devices?
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01:30.34fnordianslipyour 810 is your best equipped device then?
01:30.51angasuleit's the only one with bluetooth
01:31.03angasulemy laptop has wifi and USB, but I can't get either of those to play nice with the n810
01:31.24angasuleI'm thinking the n810 is at fault in the ad-hoc case, but for USB, both are giving me attitude
01:31.42lcukangasule,
01:31.51lcuksetup a new connection on the n810
01:31.59lcukmake it adhoc unprotected
01:32.02pupnikKamui: you are probably playing a file too heavy for mplayer
01:32.25pupnikso how do we get needed build-deps into sdk repoi?
01:32.32pupniki keep building deps in scratchbox
01:32.41lcukassign an ip address subnet and dns manually
01:32.43pupnikand that work isn't shared
01:32.50lcukthen connect to it from the n810
01:33.00lcukreboot your laptop
01:33.05angasulelcuk: for some reason, the n810 insists my ad-hoc has WEP, if I set it up with WEP, it claims to connect correctly, but ifconfig says it has 100% TX errors
01:33.07lcukand the new connection should be visible
01:33.21lcuki use adhoc extensively
01:33.26lcukthis is the simplest route
01:33.28angasuleoh :?
01:33.34Kamuidamn
01:33.34angasulefunky
01:33.36Kamuipupnik
01:33.40Kamuithats ok, the default player works fine
01:33.40angasuleyou connect to the n810 itself? :?
01:33.44KamuiI just wanted to use mytube
01:33.46lcukyes
01:33.58lcukgo to connect and the adhoc connection you created is listed
01:33.59angasulethanks, I'll give that a try :D
01:34.00Kamuiit plays the files perfectly strangely enough
01:34.06lcukits an always available local based hotspot
01:34.14lcukthen, when you see it on your pc
01:34.16lcukconnect
01:34.21Kamuiso, one question pupnik, how would I disable compositing when running a specifi app
01:34.26Kamuido you know
01:34.29lcukit wont find ip addresses, but will create the correct type of connection profile
01:34.41lcukedit that profile and fill in the required ip addresses and it should work nicely
01:34.44pupnikKamui: the speed of the cpu is comparable to perhaps a 300 mhz pentium.  If you have one of those, try playing videos on it.
01:35.14lcukive used this method to connect to other 8x0s, between my 8x0s and 900s and laptop and desktop machines
01:35.18lcukthe adhoc works well :)
01:35.33Kamuipupnik, Im playing a 480p version of robot chicken star wars special avi, I don't know what codec was used
01:35.40Kamuibut it works perefectly with the built in player
01:35.48pupnikmplayer tells you all that when it plays
01:36.05pupnikand 480p is heavy stuff.
01:37.12Kamuimpeg4
01:37.13derfThe CPU is considerably better than a 300 MHz PII.
01:37.39lcukhey, pupnik mightv meant a celeron 300a, that could run at 450mhz
01:37.47pupnikdepends on what you are running.  what would you compare it to
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01:38.00jaskaceleron266 ran at 400-450 too :) (the l2-cacheless one :)
01:38.02lcukits got a kickass graphics card this time round too
01:38.03pupnik500mhz p2?
01:38.06Kamuihow about disabling compositing
01:38.07jaskawithout a fan, just a heatsink
01:38.07pupnikCPU
01:38.11Kamuihow is that done pupnik
01:38.21KamuiI want to try that with blender before I break the build with the wrapper
01:38.30derfWell, Theora ran at just about real-time for 720x480 on a 300 MHz PII.
01:38.40derfIt's almost 2x real-time on the DSP.
01:38.47pupnikmplayer Nokia_N900.mp4
01:38.55pupnikCPU
01:39.03derfAnd the ARM can just about do 720p (about 2.67x better).
01:39.15ali1234300MHz PII is the slowest x86 that can play DVDs in software
01:39.17pupnikhahaha
01:39.38pupnikright, and mplayer running only on CPU is roughly at 300mhz PentiumII
01:39.48fnordiansliplcuk:  does that adhoc wifi approach work on the n900 too?
01:40.06pupnikthat's fast.  look at what a 300mhz PII sucks for power.
01:40.11lcukfnordianslip, indeed it does
01:40.24lcukwhenever my router dies, i just "meh" and switch connection to adhoc
01:40.30fnordiansliplcuk: aah.  interesting
01:40.31lcukworks great on a train or in hotel
01:40.41ali1234pupnik: yeah well it is over 10 year old technology
01:40.46fnordianslipcane the devices battery much?
01:41.14lcuknot noticably bad for me, and right now its even better
01:41.33lcukcos ive changed where i build software now, cpou isnt running gcc all the time ;)
01:42.02lcuknormally when i need it, ive got usb lead available from laptop anyway
01:42.06lcukso its not noticable
01:43.26fnordianslipthanks.  cool tip
01:43.47fnordianslipbtw, does avahi work now on the n900?
01:45.04lcukdunno, think i saw an update, not sure tho
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01:47.06fnordianslipcheers.  it would be nice if that worked and the hosts used link local address assignments :)
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01:48.20iluvulcuk:D
01:49.08angasule_lcuk: thanks a bunch! you totally saved the day :D
01:49.09lcukwaves @ another admirer
01:49.25iluvulcukwaves back
01:49.56lcuk:D
01:50.17angasule_wicd failed to connect, no idea why, but I just connected manually, with the n810 as the beacon it was easy :D
01:51.33pupnikbuilt: install-info_4.13a.dfsg.1-5_armel.deb  texinfo_4.13a.dfsg.1-5_armel.deb
01:51.45pupnik<PROTECTED>
01:52.27lcukpupnik, if i show you some code, could you try to decipher how to make indent make all code look the same
01:52.41lcukie to use the style i could show you
01:52.45pupniki haven't learned how to use it yet :)
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01:56.18Kamuiso my picture problem is that "tracker" is indexing the folder the unwanted images are in?
01:56.19lcukballs, the bottle of milk is frozen \@/
01:56.20Aranelis appwatch 0.7 available at -devel?
01:56.29pupniklcuk: i want tabs in the source.  spaces are annoying
01:56.56lcuki agree, but only if sizeof(tab) == 4*space
01:57.20pupnikyeah
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02:00.50pupnikvi :set tabstop=4
02:01.19angasule_the beauty of tabs is that you can set them to whatever you want :)
02:01.45angasule_I set mine to 0, it looks great!
02:02.28angasule_installs a bunch of stuff
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02:03.47pupnikdangit unexpand isn't working for me either
02:04.15angasule_does OpenAL-Soft work on ARM? :?
02:06.50pupniki know people have built it, but i haven't heard sound from it
02:07.00pupnikif you have a source tree for it that builds, please share, btw
02:07.28angasule_hmm, I don't, at all, I just did a package search
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02:08.01angasule_I don know the developer, I was going to port my graphical (qt4) configuration utility of it, but not much point till it works :P
02:08.07angasule_so, I guess I need scratchpad
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02:09.31MohammadAGnn
02:10.03pupnikangasule_:  http://bundyo.com/things/libopenal1_1.10.622-1_armel.deb  http://bundyo.com/things/libopenal-dev_1.10.622-1_armel.deb  http://bundyo.com/things/libopenal1-dbg_1.10.622-1_armel.deb
02:10.30angasule_pupnik: but no sound from those?
02:10.43pupniki don't know, i can't get the game to run atm
02:10.51angasule_does n810 use alsa?
02:11.18pupnikthose are built for n900 btw
02:11.46angasule_oh, bummerous
02:11.52angasule_do you have an n810 or n900?
02:13.12angasule_I'm talking with the OpenAL-Soft developer on #openal , and passing the info :)
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02:15.15pupnikpupnik.de/libopenal0a_0.0.8-4_armel.deb  old build which should work on n810 if you force it
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02:17.23angasule_hmm, that's the old Sample Implementation, I'd rather not use that :-)
02:17.46angasule_I'll work on getting a new alsoft version on the n810
02:18.43Kamuihey
02:18.48Kamuihow do I get tracker to reindex the phone
02:18.50angasule_so does the n810 use alsa? or oss? or something else?
02:18.58KamuiI added an exclusion, but the content is still in the index
02:19.06KamuiI need to clear the "private" folders I marked out
02:19.14jXanyone wanna buy an N810?
02:19.21angasule_how much?
02:19.26jXincludes a 4GB microSD and a micro to mini adapter!
02:19.28Kamuiwill deleting the sqlite-db.pragmas file do it?
02:19.29jXsay, 200?
02:19.47Kamuinot a bad deal jx
02:19.47jXoriginal case, stylus, new screen as of this year (old one got a crack in it) new battery
02:19.57jXeven original box.
02:20.08jXand that plastic mount for your car
02:20.10matthew-How to check my n900's IMEI ?
02:20.24jXmatthew-: under teh battery, or in Settings > About
02:20.35Kamuimatthew-, go to about in settings
02:21.26matthew-yeah
02:21.27matthew-thanks
02:21.29jXnp
02:21.30matthew-x x
02:21.32matthew-:)
02:21.42matthew-anyone else having a bad day?
02:21.51Kamuime
02:21.57KamuiIm figuring out a lot of shit the hard way
02:21.58jXme
02:22.00Kamuiand it sucks
02:22.05pwnguinyay sgtpuzzles
02:22.32jXI have to keep fucking up Kamui's things so he stops trying to do things the easy way and it's getting annoying.
02:23.10Kamuislaps jX with a sock that has been stuffed with other socks
02:23.16jXoh noes!
02:23.35jXhttp://burntelectrons.org/media/onoz.gif
02:23.40matthew-i lost $483,000.30 today
02:23.55lcukKamui, i thought tracker was documented
02:23.58lcukits part of gnome isnt it?
02:23.59jXthat's funny, I found $483,000.30 today
02:24.00Kamuiit is
02:24.04jXby the snack machine
02:24.06Kamuilcuk thats how I figured it out
02:24.11lcukso does the documentation tell you how to reset its cache
02:24.12Kamuithe hard way
02:24.14Kamui:)
02:24.15Kamuiyea
02:24.19lcukwhat? rtfm?
02:24.19Kamuitracker-processes -r
02:24.23lcuk"hard way"
02:24.27Kamuithat clears and resets the cache
02:24.28jXmatthew-: how'd you lose half a million bucks?
02:24.33Kamuilcuk, I dind't know it was a standard app
02:24.39matthew-jX: :-)
02:24.40lcukme neither
02:24.44Kamuiso I did a lot of googling, and finally discovered some documentation
02:24.45matthew-jX: im a trader
02:24.47lcukwell done on investigating it, did you solve it?
02:24.49Kamuiwhich I read through
02:24.53Kamuiye
02:24.54Kamuis
02:25.01lcuktheres a bug report regarding this
02:25.02jXmatthew-: To your friends or to your country? ;)
02:25.03Kamui.config/tracker/tracker.cfg
02:25.12pwnguinmatthew-: so you lost someone elses money :)
02:25.12lcukwhere i queried whether it was possible to exclude
02:25.18jXmatthew-: Find out what transceiver package the 900 uses?
02:25.19Kamuiadd to the exclude line, and then run that command to delete the caches
02:25.23matthew-:D
02:25.25Kamuiits reindexing now
02:25.29lcukyeah, i dunno how to reset cache though and was waiting till i next needed it
02:25.32matthew-jX: no, didnt go to the office today
02:25.37jXtrader
02:25.38matthew-will go on thursday
02:25.40jXTRADER!
02:25.52jXThis is treesun!
02:25.55Kamuilcuk, the good thing about it is that I don't dislike being self reliant, I just hate redoing something that Im sure a dozen people have already asked and answered
02:25.58leon-somehow adding contacts is not producing any links to my desktop, argh..
02:26.05Kamuiand I suck, buecause it IS on talk.maemo.org
02:26.10lcukits been asked
02:26.10Kamui*sigh*
02:26.12lcukbut not often
02:26.16matthew-pwnguin: well, yeah
02:26.21matthew-still my bonus ;-)
02:26.25pwnguinpsh
02:26.49matthew-and most of my clients is friends and family
02:27.16matthew-bad RIMM
02:27.19matthew-bad!
02:27.44pwnguinif it makes you feel better, my porfolio is down 20 percent from last year
02:28.44matthew-if it makes you feel better, mine is 96% up since 24-01-2009
02:28.52pwnguinoh well thats cheating
02:29.07pwnguinactually not much difference
02:29.31matthew-its small portfolio thou
02:29.44pwnguinsize is the enemy of return
02:29.45pupnikwhat's your guess for USD/EUR through jan-feb.
02:29.56matthew-pwnguin: i dont do Forex
02:30.41matthew-pwnguin: yeah
02:30.42pwnguinusd/eur doesn't matter as much as usd/rmb and that's a political calculation
02:30.51matthew-i dont think ill go over 250m on one portfolio
02:32.10matthew-exposure that is
02:32.39pwnguinjust finished watching Shiller's Financial Markets lectures online yesterday
02:32.57pwnguinquite interesting in a couple ways
02:33.26pwnguinhis guest speakers were kinda misleading
02:33.35matthew-;]
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02:34.03pupnikheh, apple lisa, ebay, $1300
02:34.10pwnguinone guy claims his 28 percent annual return for 10 years was about diversity
02:34.45pwnguinbut then he lets slip he shorted .coms in the crash and shorted housing this time
02:35.02doc|homehe shorted both of those and he only made 28%?
02:35.17derfDiversity is the enemy of return just as much as size is.
02:35.25pwnguindoc|home: 28 percent for ten years
02:35.34doc|homethat's actually kinda lame
02:35.38derfMost people only have a handful of really good ideas.
02:36.00doc|homeespecially if you've the foresight to short two of the biggest bubbles in history
02:36.11pwnguindoc|home: you dont understand
02:36.12SpeedEvilderf: And Newton and Edison thought of them first.
02:36.14pupnikbtw if you think apple designs are great... http://cgi.ebay.de/Apple-eMate-300-Apple-Newton-in-working-condition_W0QQitemZ290386706212QQcmdZViewItemQQptZKlassische_Computer?hash=item439c657f24
02:36.18pwnguinits not 28 percent those two year
02:36.29doc|homepwnguin: I understood that
02:36.45pwnguinits 28 percent every year for ten, or perhaps 200 percent two years and average otherwise
02:36.59cehtehuhm .. i still wait to see many newton feature on todays devices :/
02:37.09cehtehthe newton clipboard was awesome
02:37.12derfIt's almost 1,200% total.
02:37.22doc|homepwnguin: yeah, but the housing crash and dotcom bubbles were far greater
02:37.29doc|home-s
02:37.40pwnguindoc|home: how the hell do you gain more than 100 percent from a short?
02:37.48pwnguinin an endowment setting
02:37.58derfOptions.
02:38.38pwnguinanyways, im guessing his main tool is access to yale graduates
02:39.22pwnguinanother guest speaker mentioned how they took an airline private with a partner
02:39.46pwnguinturns out a few months after that lecture was given their partner was arrested for running a ponzi scheme
02:40.53pwnguinanyways, more important things are at hand
02:41.08pwnguinwhy is extras-devel not working for me?
02:41.23pwnguin"no hash entry in release file"
02:48.58nomisargh. I renamed a file and the media player insists on showing the old name. It even still plays the video.
02:49.27nomishow do I force a re-run of the meta-tracker?
02:53.30pupniklinux can detect filename changes, can't it.  that should update tracker.
02:53.44pupnikbut maybe there will someday be a package for us to get folder-based media player
02:54.02pupnikfor people who can manage their own directories
02:54.23pupnikoh and whoever changed 'ls' to improperly sort my _files, die in a fire
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03:00.57nomispupnik: yeah, I hate this "oh, who cares about directories"-approach.
03:01.09nomisit already gets crowded with 32 videos.
03:02.08nomisat least I managed to disable the always-changing-icon-depending-on-where-I-pause-the-video.
03:10.34pupniki find that kind of useful though
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03:10.41pupnikexcept when the icon breaks
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03:18.21Kamuihave any copies of 1.1 test versions leaked?
03:18.28KamuiI'd really like to see where its at right now
03:18.49KamuiIm thinking about reflashing and starting over anyway, now that I know what I should do to prevent rootfs from filling up so easily
03:19.09GAN900Kamui, first and only warning. :)
03:19.25GAN900Kamui, do not solicite pre-release firmwares in this channel.
03:19.32Kamuidude
03:19.35KamuiIm sorry
03:19.39KamuiI should have read the rules
03:19.44Kamuimy fault, done, and done.
03:20.10GAN900Thanks. :)
03:20.44GAN900Understand that Nokia is extending a lot of faith in the community by distributing prerelease firmware under no NDA
03:20.59doc|homefaith about ... ?
03:21.17GAN900anything that jeopardizes that behavior in the future is undesireable. :)
03:21.25KamuiI didn't think this community fw would be as big a secretive deal as apple, but I totally understand what you're saying
03:21.43GAN900doc|home, not leaking it, not discussing the content with bloggers, etc.
03:22.03doc|homeGAN900: hmmm, why don't they just do it in the open?
03:22.11GAN900Kamui, Apple doesn't distribute pre-release stuff not under NDAs. ;)
03:22.23doc|homemethinks the point of open source is being missed somewhat :/
03:22.29Kamuithey do to developers and its under NDAs
03:23.02pupnikanybody try building QMMP?
03:23.05Kamuibetas are gettable by anyone but its not easy work, hardly an issue here anyway, I was just curious as to what to expect
03:23.21Kamuiim done with the iphone I think anyway, N900 is the way of my future ;
03:23.22Kamui)
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03:23.38GAN900doc|home, a variety of reasons varying from third party stuff (Flash, etc.) to having dinosaurs and a lot inertia behind the current arrangement
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03:24.04GAN900doc|home, the open source stuff is nearly all available from git or svn
03:24.14doc|homenods
03:24.29GAN900Kamui, we're working towards a more open-friendly arrangement
03:24.37GAN900This is the first step
03:24.50GAN900Unfortunately, big ships turn slow.
03:25.31Kamuiwell, Im not crying, Q1 release is close enough, plus from all the talk, I feel like it will be this month
03:25.32Kamui:)
03:26.09GAN900But if we can demonstrate that this will benefit Nokia (i.e., point management at all the pretty bugs the prerelease testers have filed)
03:26.20Flandry-sleepdbus, wherefore art thou
03:26.22GAN900then we can work towards more in the future.
03:26.48Flandry-sleepis there any dbus services listing for fremantle?
03:27.07Flandry-sleepany introspection software i could use to discover same
03:27.20GAN900Kamui, so the problem with leaks is that management may go, "Oh, well, all that got us was leaked pre-release software, bad press and troubled relations with our vendors"
03:27.42GAN900Since they, by and large, don't really "get" open source.
03:28.16Kamuiyea, I see your point
03:28.30ljpFlandry-sleep: I have used qdbus on the n900, but you'll need qt libs
03:28.37Kamuiit seems to me that a disclaimer and download for registered developers might better the situation
03:28.58Flandryqdbus eh
03:29.14GAN900Kamui, give it 6 months and we'll see where we are.
03:29.35GAN900Kamui, how bugzilla savy are you?
03:29.38ljpFlandry: but that doesnt get built by default when building Qt
03:29.40Flandryit would be nice if nokia would publish a list of the interfaces for their proprietary stuff
03:30.11Flandryok it will have to be another day then, thanks
03:30.20KamuiGAN900, well, Im in a good place right now, not too rough to wait it out
03:30.27ljpthere is always dbus-monitor :)
03:31.18GAN900http://tinyurl.com/yey5upe
03:31.37GAN900Rough list of most of the issues resolved in PR1.1
03:32.13GAN900A few are 1.2
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03:39.35Flandryoh
03:39.52Flandrydbus-monitor is cool, but i don't think it's going to get me what i need
03:40.42ljpFlandry: if it's introspectable, then qdbus is easy to use
03:41.08Flandryalright i'll check it out then, thanks
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03:41.24papohrm
03:41.42papoI'm not sure whether I should buy and apply that zagg shield
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03:50.42KamuiGAN900, really never use bugzilla, but I've used it a few times to report bugs in other apps.  Nothing I couldn't handle ;)
03:50.44pupniknice fixes!
03:51.13pupniktry searching for bugs
03:53.18pupnikhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6100  yea just remove copy and paste from menu
03:53.19povbot`Bug 6100: The menu item "copy" in the browser menu does not work
04:00.02Kamuidamn
04:00.08Kamuifirst time im seeing the accelerometer bug
04:00.23Kamuithe eyes widget is randomly bouncing from down to up
04:00.31Kamuiand rotating the phone wont trigger the dialer
04:00.57Kamuitime for a cold boot
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04:09.36GAN900Kamui, wasn't sure if you knew your way around search enough to generate that list.
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04:13.58mfinkleGAN900: have you tried installing fennec on an n900?
04:14.15GAN900mfinkle, not since the earlu betas.
04:14.32mfinklewe had some reports that the deb was not installing into /opt and wanted to know if anyone was saw it too
04:14.34GAN900s/earlu/early/
04:15.38GAN900mfinkle, installing now. . . .
04:17.06`0660what's the quickest way to type ä and ö in n900 with us layout?
04:17.33`0660or do i just need to enable the virtual keyboard somehow...
04:18.46GAN900Fn-Sym
04:19.28GAN900mfinkle, appears to be installing properly to /opt
04:20.44Flandryomg there's a goto in this source
04:21.45`0660thanks!
04:22.09Kamuithat, GAN900, is a HUGE list
04:22.22Kamuithe next firmware release is going to be insanely clean
04:23.05mfinkleGAN900: thanks for checking
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04:33.34luke-jrFlandry: goto still is sometimes the best way to do things, even if rare :p
04:33.40luke-jrcomes with the language being functional
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04:42.14KamuiN900lcuk
04:42.51KamuiN900rebooted the phone
04:42.51KamuiN900works again
04:43.22lcukcould you post a followup vid showing that
04:46.27lucentblinks
04:46.52lucentI wonder, would Ovi Store arrive with the new firmware for N900?
04:46.59lucentis one holding up the release of the other?
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04:54.50Arkenoihttp://www.loopinsight.com/2010/01/04/device-turns-iphone-ipod-touch-into-universal-remote/ haha losers
04:56.53lucentArkenoi: does the IR from N900 transmit 30ft or better?
05:06.19matthew-Arkenoi: why? can u use n900 as a remote ?
05:07.25Arkenoilucent: i guess CIR should do, though i tried close range only
05:07.29Arkenoimatthew-, yes
05:07.38matthew-Arkenoi: What app?
05:07.57|RI wish i was able to record my remote in a coherent manner to add support for it :/
05:08.08Arkenoithe problem is predefined remote database is quite limited but i successfully tried it with my old VCR (yes, i still own a VCR)
05:08.12Arkenoiqtirreco
05:08.15matthew-ah
05:08.33Arkenoiit is not known yet if recording part is possible on n900
05:08.34matthew-Arkenoi: devel or test?
05:08.43Arkenoican't remember exactly
05:08.54|RArkenoi: well i thought it was not, but i was recording with a laptop...
05:09.08|RIn any case, i'm getting different result every time, go figure :(
05:09.08matthew-my battery is pissing me off ! :D
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05:11.33matthew-geez, i love the n900 :<
05:11.46matthew-i think they created a fanboi when i got it :D
05:12.37matthew-and, my other idea is to get another one and install openbsd/netbsd on it
05:15.02|Rhaha, good luck :)
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05:20.59Arkenoi|R, you do recording with generic IRDA?
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05:28.57KamuiArkenoi, what range do you get
05:29.04KamuiI've always wondered hwo well that worked...
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05:30.12Kamuinothing, including my old ass quasar vcr worked
05:30.28Kamuiand unforunately it doesn't appear that the app will let you record from another remote :(
05:30.47Arkenoikamui: never tried more than a few meters. yep, it does not yet :-(
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05:32.33|RArkenoi: yeah, well, found a guide explaining how to do it... but the output is awkward
05:32.47Kamuishare
05:32.50Kamuiyour link
05:33.42|Rgive me a sec, i have to find the forum post :)
05:33.56|Rhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=430484&postcount=43
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05:34.56konfoo!!!!
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05:50.14pupnikaudacity is a flaming POS
05:50.30siriusnovayeah so i just reflashed my N900
05:50.44siriusnovabut its the same pos crap firmware that came with release since Nokia refuses to release an update
05:50.45siriusnova>:|
05:50.47Kamuipupnik
05:50.53Kamuidid you ever rebuild gemrb for the N900?
05:50.59Kamuiwondering if that port works
05:52.57pupniki didn't, bundyo did.  it's complaining about missing files on my device
05:53.10pupnikso i might need to re-install the game
05:53.19Kamuithe deb installs ok?
05:53.23Kamuihas it been optified?
05:53.29pupniksure, but you will need to config.  yes, mostly
05:53.30Kamuiand are we talking about 0.6 ddeb?
05:53.39pupnikyes
05:53.42pupnikand n900
05:53.42Kamuisweet
05:54.17pupniki am working on something more my size ;)
05:54.23Kamui:)
05:55.17cehtehmhm
05:57.15pupnikcehteh: do you know how to make audacity not generate 800kB of .wav file metadata for every 10kB sample
05:58.25pupnikhow many years has that been under development?  FIFTEEN?
05:58.37Kamuipupnik, u porting audacity?
05:58.43cehtehno idea
05:58.59pupnikyou can totally smell the KDE-programmer stench
06:00.28cehtehhow about porting ardour to n900 instead :)
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06:01.07cehteh(and while at it replace pulseaudio with jack)
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06:18.39luke-jrpupnik: Audacity is GNOME crap, idiot
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06:23.44fluxluke-jr, how is ig GNOME crap? it doesn't even use any gnome libraries.
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06:25.04goodwillso here is a question ... I am using PC Suite to sync an outlook calendar to n900. I have a choice of usb or bluetooth. Anyone knows of way to sync it over the net
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06:25.59goodwillbefore anyone asks ... mail for exchange is not a viable option
06:26.58luke-jrflux: glib, GTK, GNOME... all the same crap
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06:27.15luke-jrjust different layers of the same framework
06:27.32cehtehreal men use snd
06:29.10fluxluke-jr, so irssi is GNOME crap then?
06:29.27luke-jrflux: more or less
06:29.43fluxwell, you are entitled to your view, of course :)
06:30.06RST38hIs talk.maemo.org down?
06:30.12goodwillluke-jr: fvwm? ratpoison fan?
06:30.20fluxr3no, it's just bloody slow
06:30.27fluxrst38h even
06:30.28RST38hAh, no, just very slow. Probably migrated to maemo.org servers, finally
06:30.47tekojoMorning RST38h :-)
06:31.16luke-jrgoodwill: never heard of it
06:31.27goodwillluke-jr: kde?
06:31.32RST38hEHLO tekojo =)
06:31.55fluxactually that makes most of Maemo GNOME-crap also, because they indeed seme to use GObject everywhere
06:32.02luke-jrgoodwill: what of KDE?
06:32.08flux(most of nokia-services and GUI anyway)
06:32.17goodwillluke-jr: you do nto like gnome ... so I wonder whats your wm of choice
06:32.19luke-jrflux: indeed, though Maemo6 is supposed to be better (non-glib)
06:32.32luke-jrgoodwill: I use KDE, though it is also crap (to a lesser degree)
06:34.08luke-jrMaemo 6 might have potential to be the first good environment IMO, but I have no confidence in Nokia.
06:34.44goodwilldoes not see anything wrong with glib
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06:36.35luke-jrglib: slow; GTK: ugly; GNOME: oversimplified
06:36.46RST38hGNOME works for me
06:38.40luke-jrgreat, so you either fit in GNOME's little box of how you should use it, or you don't mind letting the DE tell you how to use it rather than you telling it
06:39.05goodwillluke-jr: try fvwm ... you can tell it exactly how to behave
06:40.25luke-jrgoodwill: if it's GTK, no thanks
06:40.36goodwillluke-jr: its not
06:43.20Kamuidamn
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06:43.21Kamuiopen al suck
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06:43.22Kamuis
06:43.47Kamuiits causes pulseaudio to suck 55%+ cpu when a game/app uses it
06:43.56Kamuieithe rthat or pulseaudio has a huge buck
06:43.58Kamuibug
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06:46.19fluxyeah, pulseaudio cpu consumption wonders me also. I've been hoping it's because apps use a mismatched sample rate (bug) and pulseaudio needs to resample..
06:46.24fluxis there a bug about that?
06:47.25Kamuihaven't looked on bugzilla yet
06:47.31Kamuiill take a look later, gotta get to bed
06:47.39Kamuiother than the pulseaudio issue, gemrb runs great
06:47.42Kamui:)
06:47.44cehtehtought the DSP could do that ..
06:48.14fluxcehteh, maybe it could, but.. ?
06:48.26cehtehyeah blame someone else :P
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07:18.46RST38hX-Fade: around?
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07:34.10destinalquick scratchbox2 question..   the default                   {prefix = "/lib", map_to = target_root},   in  /usr/share/scratchbox2/lua_scripts/pathmaps/simple/00_default.lua   works, but I can't make new ones like        {prefix = "/usr/local", map_to = target_root},   .. any idea what I'm doing wrong?
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08:12.29Ceronhttp://www.lachschon.de/images/61357_i_cant_let_you_do_that_dave.jpg
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08:22.04Markus23good morning!
08:22.19pupnikmoo
08:22.21Markus23is it possible to open a new window for the browser in background?
08:22.36Markus23I sometimes want to open several windows and look at them later
08:22.42Markus23especially when reading rss
08:22.45Markus23is this supported?
08:23.32homeasvsX-Fade, ping
08:25.06kaudioyes
08:25.29Markus23kaudio: how can I change this behaviour?
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08:28.28RST38hhey pupnik
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08:35.15pupnikhi RST38h
08:35.52pupniksis you check out psx4all?
08:35.54pupnikdid
08:36.16pupnikkinda fun to see it chugging
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08:47.57RST38hpupnik: Naah, I never had PSX to begin with
08:48.06RST38hSo it is all kinda alien to me
08:48.10pupnikyeah that makes it not fun
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08:48.28pupnikretro is for the vibes
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08:49.03pupniki would have been a clockmaker in midieval europe
08:49.17pupnikmakin gears mesh
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08:51.46JaffaMorning, all
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09:04.56dmj726hmm...this whole camera thing is really handy.
09:05.22tybollthow so
09:05.32pupnikcause it doesnt suck
09:05.37dmj726I managed to use it to take a video of my hot chocolate, showing the consistency it *should* be since everyone is asleep right now.
09:06.10pupnikand you can share pics so much more easily than a regular camera
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09:07.24dmj726Oh, wow this is rich.
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09:08.28dmj726I don't think I would've brought out the digi8 camcorder for this.
09:08.56pupnikcatching the moment is the key
09:09.28dmj726yep, I can enjoy my "drink" and video it too.
09:10.04tybolltguess you had to have a n900 for ... that
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09:10.35dmj726I've been trying to make hot chocolate like they make in spain for a couple years now
09:10.43dmj726I think I've finally succeeded.
09:10.59tybolltwhats the secret?
09:11.38dmj726Fill a glass with 50% bittersweet chocolate, 25% milk, and 25% sugar.
09:11.42dmj726Boil that.
09:11.58tybolltholy crap
09:12.00dmj726Stir it vigorously for a minute
09:12.02nealthat's thick
09:12.08tybolltthat's insta-fatener right there >:)
09:12.10dmj726heat it to a boil again
09:12.21dmj726stir it vigorously for another minute until it's smooth
09:12.28dmj726It is.
09:12.37dmj726Make a small cup, not a big one.
09:12.45nealsounds like Angelina's (in Paris)
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09:13.02dmj726This is fairly similar to what I had at Chocolateria San Gines in Madrid
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09:13.11tybolltif I served this to the missus she'd be on a sugar-high for the rest of the evening ;)
09:13.32dmj726Which incidentally is the only Spanish restaurant I know of that offers free water.
09:13.42dmj726since the chocolate makes you thirsty.
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09:26.07prakanyone know of an easy way to edit my sudoers file?
09:26.21praki'm trying to get a bash script working on my n810, but having a lot of trouble
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09:29.58prakanyone here?
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09:31.34timeless_mbpprak: um
09:31.43timeless_mbp<PROTECTED>
09:31.48timeless_mbp+ update-sudoers
09:31.50timeless_mbp(roughly)
09:32.15timeless_mbp<PROTECTED>
09:34.02praktimeless_mbp: huh? i don't understand what you just said
09:34.11tybolltotherwise using the "visudo" command is recomended
09:34.23timeless_mbpprak: why do you want to update sudeors
09:34.26timeless_mbps/eo/oe/
09:34.38timeless_mbpthe reason i update it is because i have a package that distributes a file that needs sudo
09:34.43floriangood morning
09:34.51timeless_mbpthe proper way to do it is to distribute a file w/ the bits i want in the directory i mentioned
09:34.55timeless_mbpand call update-sudoers
09:35.00timeless_mbpwhich does the right thing (tm)
09:37.31praki want to be able to run a certain script that i wrote
09:37.36prakwhich i am having some problems running
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09:38.35prakhttp://www.pastebin.ca/1738551 and http://www.pastebin.ca/1738552
09:38.51prakbut i'm having problems running on the n810 even though i can run it on my ubuntu
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09:56.32grondiluHi, I've tried to encode a video using 'mencoder -avc lavc -lavcopts mpeg4 ...' but it doesn't seem to play well on my N900.  What are the best mencoder options to encode a vidéo for this device ?
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09:57.17cehtehgrondilu: http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/tablet-encode.html
09:57.46cehteh... but caveat, i got a bad video because of wrong framerate
09:58.06cehtehjust reencoding with fixing that in the source
09:59.05grondiluthks cehteh, I'll try that.
10:02.47pupniki noticed media player didn't honor my aspect ratio specifications
10:03.01pupniki.e. you have 320x240 and want to stretch to 400x240 for e.g.
10:03.31*** join/#maemo mairas (n=mairas@esprx02x.nokia.com)
10:03.42grondiluOh I see it's in Perl...  That's good.
10:06.13Gadgetoid_mbpNo SDL_net.h in scratchbox, what's the deal with that, yee!
10:06.57pupniksec
10:07.01RST38hcehteh: just use mencoder directly
10:07.15cehtehi dont care ..
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10:07.27kkitohello
10:07.41pupnikfakeroot apt-get install libsdl-net1.2-dev
10:07.51pupnikLOVES indent
10:08.15RST38hin which way?
10:08.36Gadgetoid_mbppupnik, that's a good idea ;D
10:09.47timeless_mbphello world
10:09.58Gadgetoid_mbpOnly it doesn't seem to exist
10:10.02timeless_mbpanyone feel like writing a tiny hildon test app for me?
10:10.18Gadgetoid_mbpI think I've had a repo fail
10:14.14pupniki can download a tiny hildon test app and build it
10:14.26pupnikGadgetoid_mbp: i don't really know how to see repo for the installed lib
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10:14.48Gadgetoid_mbppupnik: it's in extras dev, which I forgot to add *facepalm*
10:15.00pupniknp
10:15.08pupnikwb woglinde
10:15.23woglindejo pupnik
10:15.23Gadgetoid_mbpThanks for putting up with my stupidity
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10:16.15pupnikapt-cache show [package] gives enough to google it tho
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10:17.10tabMonkeyhi all
10:18.46cehtehpupnik: apt-cache policy [package]
10:18.53*** join/#maemo Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@openmoko/engineers/joerg)
10:19.15cehtehstomped on that some days ago too :)
10:19.40edheldilbut you can't see from which repo an *installed* package came, AFAIK
10:20.02cehtehedheldil: apt-cache policy [package]
10:20.06cehteh.. for you too :P
10:21.06Gadgetoid_mbpBetter make a mental note to try that one
10:21.35Gadgetoid_mbpJust trying to get the damned thing to update the src repo without failing now
10:22.16edheldilcehteh:  that's not true. see my careful wording
10:22.50edheldilit only shows from which repo the package of the same version is installable
10:22.50wazd_e63Morning all
10:23.05cehtehok then
10:23.13RST38hmoorning wazd
10:23.29_claesbasmorning
10:23.31Stskeepsmorn wazd
10:23.38woglindemoo
10:23.41Gadgetoid_mbpmoorning
10:23.44edheldilceh900:  i.e. if you haven't the repo in aources.list, apt-cache policy will not show it
10:24.12edheldilsry, ceh900 -> cehteh
10:24.21cehtehyeah . .and for manually (dpkg -i) installed packages it doesnt show either
10:24.37cehtehmhm why is ceh900 here .. i rebooted the n900 :P
10:24.40ccookeMorning, all
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10:25.16ceh901spam
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10:25.24SpeedEvil10 minute timeout until you pingout
10:25.31cehtehyeah
10:26.07cehteh:) bye
10:28.23Gadgetoid_mbphmm dear, repo fail
10:29.18StskeepsGadgetoid_mbp: http://www.qaiku.com/channels/show/maemork/view/1def9d2befd8994f9d211dea4c8d37a06ba62346234/
10:29.55Gadgetoid_mbpAh, that would be why I'm having trouble updating?
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10:31.34Gadgetoid_mbpWill have to install it the old fashioned way
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10:35.26Gadgetoid_mbpWheee, compiling
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10:36.31Gadgetoid_mbp*facepalm* -lsmpeg
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10:38.05Arkenoioops. fremantle lynx does not support https :-/
10:39.48adeushow about links
10:40.52Arkenoidon't see links in any repositories
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10:43.33SpeedEvilwget?
10:44.33adeusapt-cache policy links
10:44.45adeushttp://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk/free Packages
10:45.01Arkenoiah, sdk
10:45.08Arkenoinot optified i guess
10:45.20Arkenoinot really a problem, though
10:45.26timeless_mbplooks for native speakers
10:45.54lcukeveryone is a native speaker of some language or other
10:46.33woglinde*g*
10:46.35woglindeugh
10:47.04Gadgetoid_mbpI speak English natively, brilliant
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10:47.50lcuki speak northern
10:47.58lcukas does JamieBennett1 :D
10:48.08JamieBennett1:P
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10:48.53ShadowJKspeaks nothing native
10:49.54woglindelcuk whats northern?
10:50.14VDVsxwoglinde, bad English :P
10:50.16lcukabstract dialect of english
10:50.24lcukslaps VDVsx
10:51.25woglindelike saxxion in germany
10:51.26woglindehaha
10:51.43ShadowJKit has glottal stops instead of consonants. or vowels. I forget which
10:51.53ShadowJKmaybe it wasn't northern
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10:54.04timeless_mbphey, does anyone here know how to post one of those notifications that appears in the task switcher?
10:54.31SpeedEvil'gps recorder' does it
10:56.00timeless_mbpreads http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/hildon-home/src/hd-notification-manager.xml
10:56.05timeless_mbppokes JamieBennett
10:56.15timeless_mbplcuk: i presume i've already offered my package to you
10:56.29JamieBennettpokes back
10:56.31lcukyeah its installed
10:56.50timeless_mbpwhen was the last time it offered an update?
10:56.56timeless_mbpi tried to push an updated version today
10:57.14lcukdidnt check yet
10:57.37Gadgetoid_mbpHmm. is there a libmpeg already in a repo for fremantle?
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11:08.46timeless_mbpok
11:08.54timeless_mbpit looks like there's a ActionInvoked thing
11:09.01timeless_mbpanyone know how to use it? :)
11:11.12timeless_mbpso, it looks like i need to create a dbus service
11:11.16timeless_mbpregister it
11:11.39timeless_mbpthen forge a notification to hildondesktop w/ that service as the return address
11:11.52timeless_mbpand have the service reboot the system when it's called
11:11.59ifreqany good msn-account-plugin available yet?
11:12.19timeless_mbpifreq: i take it that butterfly is 'bad'?
11:12.32ifreqit has signup problems and heard it eats battery
11:12.46ifreqmsn-pecan has signup probs + it imports contacts without asking
11:12.51zaheermi have been using felipec's pecan for a few days and it is good
11:12.56ifreqhaze eats battery too
11:13.09zaheermall 3 import contacts without asking
11:13.28ifreqokay thats quite annoying :P
11:13.41ifreqmayb ill give a msn-pecan new try
11:13.53zaheermwell that is how the telepathy ones work
11:14.02zaheermthey integrate with your addressbook
11:14.08ifreqyeah right
11:14.11zaheermif you don't want that, use pidgin...
11:14.24ifreqtoo bad i dont have rest of the contacts added.. so just 20+ msn email addresses
11:14.38ifreqas i dont contact them via phone/sms  etc :P
11:14.51ifreqhermes import was nice
11:16.50Stskeepscurses libcal
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11:19.49ifreqis it normal that msn-pecan does not have icon under accounts (new)?
11:20.27Gadgetoid_mbplibmpeg anyone?
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11:22.28ifreqzaheerm: how do you like that when you remove msn contact under contacts it removes it from server too.. :)
11:23.05zaheermifreq, once you understand and actually read the warning, i'm fine...it'd be nice however to have an undo
11:23.21TomaszDzaheerm, I saw your thumbs up on my package, no issues with tracker? PR1.1 or 1.0?
11:23.45zaheermTomaszD, none that i noticed pr1.0 (not one of the lucky few)
11:23.54TomaszDok, cool, thanks
11:23.55pupniki need a nasty bezerk speech synth
11:24.01ifreqzaheerm: yeah, i just dont like only the msn contacnts under contacts.. so ofcourse removed em.. and read the warning later
11:24.06woglindepupnik lol
11:24.11pupnik:)
11:24.20pupnik(i do)
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11:30.30tabMonkeyAnyone know if there's a way to restart mce on the n900 without it rebooting the device?
11:30.45timeless_mbpgreedy.
11:33.10tabMonkeyno-one?
11:33.18leon-would anybody know where I could install opengles-sgx-img-common with the version 0.20090218.55.9+0m5
11:33.43leon-I seem to have something newer in my system and apt-get install does not find this particular version in the repos
11:34.46woglindeleon you need the nokia-binary line in your sources.list
11:35.31woglindebut I have to go now
11:35.34woglindesorry
11:35.40leon-woglinde, ok thanks.. I'll ask around
11:35.48woglindethere is a website
11:35.59woglindewhere you can request your personal deb line
11:36.19woglindebut I always forget where this was
11:36.23woglindeokay bye for now
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11:37.09tabMonkeyI believe the the website woglinde was referring to is this one http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula/index.php
11:39.57leon-tabMonkey, many thanks!
11:40.15tabMonkeynp
11:43.30ifreqif i reflash firmware do i need to reinstall all software +tune settings?
11:43.53pupnikno, it restores the broken state that caused you to need to reflash
11:44.11pupnik(joke)
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11:44.48ifreqhavent reflashed since i got the machine. but would love to have newer fw at some point.
11:45.20dmj726is there a way to update the fw without an effective compelte reinstall?
11:45.36pupnikbookmarks, contacts get restored
11:45.58dmj726apps and documents?
11:46.18pupnikhttp://lmgtfy.com/?q=n900+flash+restore+settings
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11:46.54dmj726I mean for when the new fw comes out, not if you brick it?
11:48.02Stskeepsandre__: ping
11:49.08fluxit would be nice if installed apps (and potentially their configuration) would stay intact during fw upgrade, but one can dream?
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11:49.38dmj726hmm...my n900 is mounting as read only
11:49.49andre__Stskeeps, pong
11:49.54dmj726flux...so it doesn't?
11:50.09fluxdmj726, I have no idea
11:50.14fluxdmj726, I'm pessimistic :)
11:50.17dmj726ah
11:50.36fluxthe best would be a normal apt-gettable upgrade, but apparently that won't be the case :-o
11:50.39dmj726I would hope there would be something more like ubuntu updates rather than clean slate
11:50.58fluxinfact, why not have both: apt-get, and if something fails horribly, you could always reflash
11:51.05dmj726yeah
11:51.07tabMonkeyif it's one of the SSU (seamless software update) they usually keep all of your settings and things
11:51.21tabMonkeythough they also sometimes go horribly wrong and require a reflash anyway ;)
11:51.22dmj726hopefully it will be one of those.
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11:51.48tabMonkeyI'm fairly sure it would be - the last few for the maemo 4 devices have been
11:51.50fluxtabmonkey, well, will it keep my hand-made /etc/network/if-up.d/00_openvpn ?
11:52.06dmj726actually it wouldn't matter either way if you could just get your package list and home folder backed up
11:52.15fluxor other files possibly created by software that doesn't add itself to the backup meta data file
11:52.43tabMonkeyflux: possibly, depending on whether they've made any changes to that area - if that's a standard file they'll overwrite it with their changes
11:52.56fluxtabmonkey, that'd be fine for me :)
11:53.18flux..although debian does have that 3-way configuration file merge also.. ;-)
11:53.45dmj726have either of you had ubuntu mount your n900 read only?
11:53.54fluxI wonder what happens to those folk who have converted ~user/MyDocs to ext3.. apparently camera doesn't work (?) after that.
11:53.56tabMonkeybest to take a backup of it - I don't think the maemo application manager has three-way merges yet
11:54.26tabMonkeydmj726: no, not seen that. Might be that the partition needs a fsck?
11:54.59dmj726n900 can do one itself?
11:55.36tabMonkeyflux: since they've done that I'm sure they'd be fine organising it themselves. I read today that a loop version of the ext3 ~user/MyDocs can use the camera correctly
11:56.09fluxtabmonkey, by loop you mean loopback-file mounted as ext3?
11:56.10tabMonkeydmj726: Not sure - I think so. You'd need to unmount MyDocs first
11:56.33dmj726sound unpleasant
11:56.46fluxtabmonkey, I wonder if there are any data safety or performance issues.. but if not, sounds like a decent option :)
11:56.48pupnikfind /etc -mtime 21   << get a list of files modified under /etc in past 21 days
11:57.31tabMonkeyflux: yeah, titan did something along those lines in this post http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=446502&postcount=101
11:58.22dmj726why would a camera app care abotu which fs it's on?
11:58.26tybolltI want reiser on Mydocs... c'mon, 's got to be the killer app!
11:58.37fluxI wonder if the camera app problem is due to lack of permissions, which are quite relaxed on the currently mounted vfat partition
11:58.44KMFDMit will be real killer
11:58.48dmj726Unless it's got something hard coded there, but that's pure ugly
11:59.06dmj726permissions would be the likely culprit
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12:03.50*** join/#maemo tabMonke1 (n=tabMonke@94-192-14-226.zone6.bethere.co.uk)
12:05.51dmj726"Do you want to empty the trash before you unmount?"
12:06.04dmj726"In order to regain the free space on this volume the trash must be emptied. All trashed items on the volume will be permanently lost."
12:06.08ifreqwill there be new firmware next week? heard some rumours
12:06.54tabMonkey_dmj726: emptry trash? Is it windows giving that message?
12:07.03dmj726nope
12:07.05dmj726ubuntu
12:07.41tabMonkey_dmj726: hmm. Ubuntu may have created a .trash folder or something.
12:07.42FIQthat message seemed to came from windows lol
12:08.07tabMonkey_ifreq: it's always a possibility - since a release is being tested by some at the moment
12:08.26FIQthinks that if he deletes a folder or file, he wants to delete it
12:08.33dmj726hmm n900 thinks the fs is read only too
12:09.44tabMonkey_dmj726: if you're on ubuntu you should be able to plug the n900 in, unmount it and fsck it there, rather than having to do it through the n900
12:10.09tybolltanyone tried qemu/kvm in the n900?
12:10.15dmj726fsck is complaining about it not being ext2
12:10.30tabMonkey_fsck.vfat
12:10.37dmj726ah
12:10.45dmj726:-[
12:11.01dmj726I don't fsck much
12:11.19dmj726um innuendo not intended
12:11.25tabMonkey_hehe
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12:11.55dmj726I think I found another fix though
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12:13.38tabMonkey_what was your fix?
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12:16.37tekoniveln900 refuses to turn on :( :( :(
12:16.53tekoniveleven the led shows no nothing
12:17.14hrwmorning
12:17.20tabMonkeymorning
12:17.30tekoniveltop of the morn all
12:17.31dmj726tabMonkey: reboot twice
12:17.33dmj726didn't work
12:17.42mgedmintekonivel, plug the charger in, leave it for an hour or two
12:17.42dmj726tekonivel: aww
12:19.06tekonivelmgedmin: its been in the usb overnight. didn't help :(
12:19.17mgedminooh :(
12:19.30mgedminpulling the battery out didn't help either?
12:19.49tekonivelwhen i connect the charger, and orange led appears. it turns off after a whiöe
12:19.54mgedminhmm
12:19.54dmj726have you tried resoldering the microusb port?
12:19.59tekonivelmgedmin: noåe
12:20.09mgedmincharging the battery in a different device might be simpler
12:20.25tybolltresoldering anything will get you into neat problems when claiming warranty
12:20.28tekonivels/noåe/nope/
12:20.43tybolltfirst - go for warranty - THEN when all other options are bust - resort to HW mod
12:20.57tekoniveli sure haven't soldered anything
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12:21.34tekonivelalso, i didn't do anything special. the device just ran out of juice, and now isn't recovering
12:22.09ShadowJKdo you have a voltmeter or multimeter?
12:22.11tekoniveli was wndering, are there any incantations i can make, like pressing a key combination at startup etc
12:22.19tybolltwhat puzzles me is you actually get the charging led... tells me it can't be _entirely_ bricked.
12:22.49tekoniveltybollt: normally the charging led pulsates, right?
12:22.55ShadowJKyes
12:22.58tekoniveltybollt: mine doesn't
12:23.07tekonivel:'{
12:23.11tybollthmm
12:23.27tybolltI recall my charging led not pulsating at one time
12:23.35tybolltPerhaps I was too drunk at the time?
12:23.42tybolltis trying now
12:23.52tekonivelmgedmin: yeah removing battery for 2 minutes didn't help either
12:24.51tekoniveli feel handicapped without mobile internet. what a horrible situation
12:25.08tybolltthere we go
12:25.12tybolltcertainly pulsating
12:25.20tybolltmust've been too drunk then
12:25.39tekoniveltybollt: yeah that's what i remembbered (pulsating, not drunk)
12:25.45tybollt;)
12:26.05tekoniveli don't remember being drunk ;)
12:26.07tybolltIf I were you I'd lookup nearest nokia repair centre and git'r done
12:26.26tekonivelwtf
12:26.39tybolltworks now? :D
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12:26.39fluxtekonivel, have you recharged it for a long period after disconnecting/connecting battery?
12:26.43tekonivelthis is showing a good sign of life now
12:26.59flux(and not reconnecting the charging power)
12:27.04tekoniveli moved from usb to a proper charger... is pulsating now
12:27.13tekonivelflux: overnight
12:27.18tybollttekonivel: ooooh
12:27.23mgedminbug 6004?
12:27.25povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6004 N900 sometimes ignores USB data cable
12:27.27tybollttekonivel: please -always a proper charger
12:27.50tybollttekonivel: there's no guarantee what a computer/whatever will output on a usb port I suppose.
12:27.53mgedminhappened to me again the other day: plug in USB data charger --> N900 doesn't charge, doesn't pop up the "what to do with USB?" menu
12:27.59mgedminunplug, plug again -> worked
12:28.05tybolltif drained entirely - always real charger
12:28.19tekonivelthis sucks, because i tried this proper charger yesterday, i'm sure
12:28.32tybolltmgedmin: that's a known bug - apparently fixed in RP1.1
12:28.33ShadowJKusb cable to computer requires the battery to have enough power left for n900 to boot and negotiate with computer... plus, the charger is twice as strong as usb
12:28.35tekoniveltybollt: aha, ok that must be it
12:28.51tekonivelsighs of relief
12:29.17tekonivelthanks you all for holding my hand :`}
12:30.37tekonivelstill acting up, i'm not reliefed under i see the desktop
12:30.42Muhvi^^
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12:30.55Muhvithat is common problem with other phones as well
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12:31.15leon-hehe, the nokia binaries and falling back to the earlier opengles version bricked the device :)
12:31.32leon-had to get it reflashed, ugh
12:31.32Muhviif using usb charger from computer etc. it doesn't always charge the phone if battery is totally dried up
12:32.40ShadowJKIt shouldn't really let the battery get that dried up in the first place, but otoh the user can do things that pull battery lower :/
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12:34.01dmj726any reason files might not chmod?
12:34.05tekonivelnow booting
12:34.11dmj726I'm root
12:34.23tekonivelthis surely hasn't been an experience i'veenjoyed
12:34.40tekonivelluckily there's #maemo
12:34.45tekonivel:)
12:35.02dmj726I do chmod 755 myfile and it's still not executable
12:35.25X-Fadedmj726: THat is because the card is mounted noexec.
12:35.31dmj726ah
12:35.54dmj726how do I run programs from it then?
12:36.00dmj726I've done it before
12:36.02X-FadeYou don't ;)
12:36.13mat-dmj726: i just have the same problem
12:36.24dmj726I ran sheep that way
12:36.27mat-and discovered that any of the files in Mydocs will become executable
12:36.30fluxmaybe via /lib/ld-linux.so.3 ?
12:36.42tekonivelnow at desktop. thanks all, esp tybollt, ShadowJK, flux, mgedmin
12:36.44dmj726what did you do?
12:36.55X-Fademaybe by calling sh before it?
12:36.57dmj726mat-: how did you execute the files?
12:37.02mat-dmj726: moved my files to /home/usr/
12:37.06mat-and NOT Mydocs
12:37.08RST38hAh heeeere you areeee
12:37.12fluxbah, that hole has been closed
12:37.24RST38hX-Fade: Can I ask for one more little favor? =0
12:37.43X-FadeRST38h: It it is in the few minutes work range, yes ;)
12:38.01RST38hX-Fade: Hope so. Could you approve my request to become XChat maintainer?
12:38.13X-FadeRST38h: Oh, that I can do.
12:38.19RST38hthinks the last build should be promoted to -Testing but does not have the rights
12:38.21RST38hThanks!
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12:38.38RST38hSame for XChat Locales please
12:38.51X-Fadedone
12:39.01JaffaX-Fade: Should https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7545 be assigned to you or Ferenc? Ferenc seems to be the default assignee...
12:39.03povbot`Bug 7545: Install the SyntaxHighlight source-code extension
12:39.14homeasvsX-Fade, is it possible someone killed the couchdb build yesterday ? The log looks awfully short and gives no real reason for failure besides a signal
12:39.23X-Fadehomeasvs: I did.
12:39.31homeasvsX-Fade, ok, so it was hung ?
12:39.37X-Fadehomeasvs: erlang was running 2000 minutes on that file.
12:39.52X-Fadehomeasvs: I thought that was long enough.
12:40.05homeasvsX-Fade, weird, it didn't hang back when I built erlang, and now it does hang.  Any chance it ran on different builders ?
12:40.19tybolltbit OT so you will chastise me for it but... screen protection or no screen protection? experiences?
12:40.32X-FadeJaffa: yes, ferenc is fine for that. I am in cc for that anyway.
12:40.49X-Fadehomeasvs: qemu was spinning 100%.
12:41.13pingpongdoes anybody know how I can prevent the MAC address of the usb network from changing? I would like to use a udev rule but's the MAC is changing after reboot
12:41.16homeasvsX-Fade, yeah, that's what happens in my armel scratchboxes, and that's what I also expected for the erlang build in extras, but it didn't
12:41.23homeasvsX-Fade, so I'm surprised it does now for couchdb
12:41.31pingpong*udev rule at my host system
12:41.46ShadowJKtybollt: new touchwindow assy is 100 bucks, you can just replace hatt if you accidentally put n900 in same pocket as your keys/pens and whatever
12:41.55X-Fadehomeasvs: I remember that for erlang I also needed to kill something.
12:42.04X-Fadehomeasvs: And then it continued instead of failed.
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12:42.45homeasvsX-Fade, yeah.  In my sbox however any erlc execution hangs
12:43.04tybolltShadowJK: it works like that? I mean... you can get that part? I don't have to have a good friend at nokia's? ;)
12:43.06homeasvsX-Fade, otoh I just noticed that the erlang packages are bad anyway, none of the crypto/ssl stuff was built
12:43.10X-Fadehomeasvs: Can you try it with a newer qemu in your own sbox?
12:44.02*** join/#maemo chenca (n=chenca@200.184.118.130)
12:44.34X-Fadehomeasvs: http://maemo.gitorious.org/qemu-maemo
12:44.46ShadowJKtybollt: you can get the component for 55. If I understood it correctly, some guy on tmo who had a big scratch was quoted ~100 bucks by a repair shop
12:45.35homeasvsX-Fade, I'll try - can I build a .deb straight from that checkout ?
12:45.59RST38hA'ok, XChat goes into Extras-Testing, thanks X-Fade
12:46.01JaffaVDVsx: Could it be argued that the Jan sprint meeting is an opportunity for some of our more... quiet... council members to show some activity?
12:46.05X-Fadehomeasvs: I have no idea, if there is a debian dir then you should be able to just run dpkg-buildpackage.
12:46.17*** join/#maemo mas_ (n=mas@cm238-46.liwest.at)
12:46.18homeasvsI'll check and let you know
12:46.27dmj726okay, I'm officially retarded.
12:46.42VDVsxJaffa, + 1 for that, I'll have a very busy month :(
12:46.44dmj726I just spend 10 minutes trying to figure out why a program won't run
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12:46.59RST38hMoo, VDVsx by the way
12:47.10VDVsxhey RST38h :)
12:47.13tybolltShadowJK: neat. My experience from nokia repair centre around here (stockholm, .se) is they'd just "sorry - that'd cost more thant the phone is worth, bubye now"
12:47.14dmj726It's a binary compiled for x86
12:47.25JaffaVDVsx: Especially since at least two of the council members ran on an "increased communication" ticket.
12:47.26tybolltShadowJK: w/out even inspecting the damage to the phone
12:47.55tybolltbut that's very good news
12:48.07ShadowJKtybollt: well the same guy was quoted 224 for replacing the cover and case
12:48.16tybolltheh, there you go :)
12:50.12VDVsxJaffa, I'm trying to do my best, but the last times were not very easy, I'm starting to be a little bit demotivated, especially after get massive insults yesterday :(
12:50.17VDVsxbetter times will come :)
12:50.40JaffaVDVsx: Now you know why I stopped :-(
12:50.54ShadowJKhttp://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900 all not in stock and unorderable :(
12:51.09X-FadeVDVsx: Always remember that people who complain care, when they stop complaining, they moved on ;)
12:51.52dmj726http://forums.celtx.com/viewtopic.php?t=8366&sid=b4d20c0f0ee49b14b49b4228e4596c17
12:52.09VDVsxX-Fade, I'm fine with complains, but I like to be respected at least in the same way I respect others
12:52.17dmj726It strikes me that celtx shouldn't be too terribly hard to port
12:52.41tybolltShadowJK: any word of a car gps-style holder/dock?
12:52.43JaffaVDVsx: Take Texrat up on his volunteration
12:53.02nealwhen a gtktreeview is placed in a hildon pannable area, the row heights are large.  I appreciate that this is useful for selecting the right item, but I'd like to nevertheless reduce the height by about 30%.  How can I do this?
12:53.29VDVsxJaffa, he told me he's a bit sick, but I'll check it him :)
12:53.36dmj726would anybody want celtx on their phone?
12:53.42ShadowJKtybollt: hm, I was going to try one I saw at Clas Ohlson once..
12:53.46X-FadeVDVsx: true.
12:53.53JaffaVDVsx: Ah, doh. He gets migraines IIRC
12:53.55tybolltShadowJK: Dude... Clas Ohlson? :)
12:53.58JaffaWhich reminds me, I need some drugs
12:54.03Stskeepsperhaps it's time to give council increased role as it's well, a bit not-functional atm :P
12:54.06tybolltI don't trust them w/ this fine a phone :)
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12:54.49ShadowJKtybollt: well my N900 already proved it survived an aerial flight through my car ;)
12:55.08X-FadeShadowJK: Did you have n900fly running?
12:55.10Jaffawants to give the current council a scorecard. Maybe it'd be best sent straight to council@maemo.org rather than public shaming; and asking them what they've learned and how we can make sure we get more active candidates.
12:55.17KMFDMmy n900 survived an aerial flight today
12:55.20KMFDMit kept running to and didn't crash
12:55.23tybolltShadowJK: Hmm you HAD to test that "throw your n900"-app - didn't you? ;-)
12:55.27ShadowJKx-fade: no it wasn't out yet
12:55.27RST38hEh...gerbick transdickifies so quickly nowadays...
12:55.34Stskeepswouldn't mind seeing community council be people who spearhead efforts and work with people to get things accomplished and get a sense of having a management of the community
12:55.34KMFDM*too
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12:55.46JaffaStskeeps: That sounds ideal :-)
12:55.50Stskeepsas we are kinda flailing atm
12:55.51KMFDMi slide on ice and had to decide if i wanted to fall face first on ice covered concrete or drop the phone and get my balance
12:56.20KMFDMgranted i have a rubber protector on the phone
12:56.29tybolltI'd say I fancy my n900 broken over my face being turned into ground meat
12:56.29X-FadeThe 'problem' with a community council is that they need to do things in their spare time.
12:56.37*** join/#maemo IRCMonkey (n=tonikito@189.2.128.130)
12:56.55X-FadeGoals often get kicked by real life issues.
12:56.58VDVsxStskeeps, ran for the council, I'll vote on you :p
12:57.01KMFDMtybollt, precisely
12:57.05KMFDMso into the air it went
12:57.14StskeepsVDVsx: being both a maemo.org employee and council will give me a headache
12:57.22KMFDMthe protector flew off, battery panel flew off
12:57.24*** join/#maemo victorpoluceno (n=victorgp@189.72.83.245)
12:57.29KMFDMbut battery stayed put so it stayed on
12:57.29ShadowJKI had my N900 on the dashboard because that's where its fm transmitter gives best signal. In an intersection it was more slippery than I anticipated, and I was in a lazy sideways skid, and when the wheels found grip again and straightened out the car, the jerk sent my N900 flying :)
12:57.35KMFDMi gave a live update in another irc channel at the time
12:57.44X-FadeStskeeps: And a bit of a conflict of interest ;)
12:57.50JaffaX-Fade: Indeed. But that doesn't seem to be a problem for a lot of other projects. I think the expectation is that those who have the idea have to push it; and it's not clear that all the disparate people involved in maemo.org (some Nokians, some maemo.org, some contractors at Nemein) who can set and push an agenda.
12:57.57VDVsxStskeeps, I can recommend you some good pills for that :)
12:59.51Stskeepsmaybe council should be a matter of daily management instead - if you run for it, you run for daily or weekly meetings where efforts are voted on and resources allocated , if you can't handle that, resign
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13:00.27RST38hStskeeps: See item about how this is done in spare time
13:00.39VDVsx@ BCN I discussed with dneary & others, if nokians/maemo.org people in the council could be good or bad for the community
13:01.10StskeepsRST38h: still
13:01.33RST38hStskeeps: From personal experience I can assure you that this is barely possible =(
13:01.42tybolltno, you all just say that - while in fact you were looking for an excuse to test  ... http://my-maemo.com/software/applications.php?name=N900_Fly&faq=47&fldAuto=1043
13:01.51tybollt;-)
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13:02.11StskeepsRST38h: well, then council is partly useless and we start to have mini commitees or something instead that -can- spend time on issues :P
13:02.18Stskeepslike we have bugsquad, docsquad, etc
13:02.31RST38hStskeeps: Interesting idea
13:02.55RST38hStskeeps: i.e. switch to something small, adhoc, centered around a single task
13:02.56Stskeepsright now we're not getting any visions or direction of the community to self-organise either :P
13:03.18RST38hWell, that is because you have a wrong idea of the community
13:03.38RST38hA lot of people do, in fact, because the more realistic view is such a sad thing to consider :)
13:03.38Stskeepsi'd like to see the community be a working community, but that's my own personal view :P
13:04.43*** join/#maemo briglia (n=briglia@189.2.128.130)
13:04.45RST38hWell, the problem is that there is no "community".
13:04.49VDVsxthe problem is that we're very different from most of the OpenSource communities using this kind of management (I guess that was inspired in the Gnome community)
13:04.57RST38hThere is a bunch of different people, all doing their own things with the phones
13:05.12leon-what's the latest production firmware?
13:05.14RST38hTheir paths intersects at maemo.org, tmo, this channel, etc
13:05.26VDVsxwe're becoming more and more like the android community
13:05.35RST38hWhen their paths intersect, however briefly, you get impression of the community
13:05.49*** join/#maemo mikhas (n=mikhas@p4FC22023.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:06.24RST38hBut some people move on, other people come, some may not have time to participate in communal mingling, etc
13:07.04RST38hSo when you talk about community eforts, you should always keep this fluid, unstable, ghost-like model in mind
13:07.10Stskeepswe should really have been organising the incoming people better though - for those who'd like to contribute
13:07.46RST38hStskeeps: People do not like organization. The more you organize, enforce rules, etc the more people will be turned away
13:07.58VDVsxvery true
13:07.59RST38hGood organization is when the organized do not notice anything out of the ordinary ;)
13:08.00leon-word :)
13:08.15RST38hRemember what happened when ITT became TMO?
13:08.44RST38hAnd all that changed was the domain name and the fucking layout
13:09.51StskeepsRST38h: still, for those who want to contribute and work together to make something bigger, it should be possible to set up a mini project for doing so
13:11.17Stskeepsand for those mini projects that require the time of paid contributors or adjustments to maemo.org, council should be in over to help allocate resources for accomplishing it
13:11.24*** join/#maemo blanc (n=asdf@62-47-25-5.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
13:11.25Stskeepsand hence dynamically making direction of efforts
13:12.27Stskeepsthat is really what facilitation should be like, helping making things possible :P
13:12.56Stskeepswonders where the civilization style 'revolution' button is
13:14.25ifreqpuuh
13:14.30RST38hStskeeps: Ah, if n people would like to work jointly, they will, without any external organization
13:14.50RST38hStskeeps: humans are small pack animals, they organize pretty well in groups <5
13:15.37StskeepsRST38h: agreed, and there's no need for it to be. but if it requires shared resources (employees, web space, passwords, whatever, decisions), these have to be allocated to them
13:15.52RST38hStskeeps: Now, if the council takes some real efforts to fix the maemo.org snafu, that would be waaaaaaaaay appreciated
13:16.33RST38hStskeeps: Because they way it is now, maemo.org services actively PREVENT people from working together
13:17.07*** join/#maemo Do-m-pie (n=Do-m-pie@195-241-24-17.ip.telfort.nl)
13:17.09StskeepsRST38h: it's slowly getting out of the snafu, but yeah
13:17.18RST38hStskeeps: people also tend to find their own web space, version control systems, etc
13:17.38StskeepsRST38h: agreed, was just examples
13:17.40RST38hStskeeps: So, the least the council can do is to make maemo.org resources competitive with other resources out there
13:18.01lcukis the meeting happening in here then
13:18.10RST38hi.e. autobuilder working 24/7, instant page reloads, instant status changes
13:18.21*** join/#maemo Sir_Lancelot (n=Lancelot@a213-22-208-114.cpe.netcabo.pt)
13:18.23RST38hreasonable UI for browsing packages
13:18.46Stskeepslcuk: nah, this is just discussion
13:18.47RST38hwell organized documentation page (how old is this issue? ;))
13:18.47ShadowJKlol
13:19.10RST38hWell organized news page
13:19.14ShadowJKit's http, it needs a browser, it'll never be instant
13:19.19RST38h(and I have some suggestions on that)
13:19.31RST38hShadowJK: By instant I mean <10 seconds
13:19.34*** join/#maemo milos_ (n=milos@92.36.172.101)
13:19.40ShadowJKright :)
13:19.44lcukajax!
13:19.51RST38hShadowJK: Right now, it is 2-3 minutes to reload the damn page + 1-3 hours for the package status to change
13:19.51Stskeepshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Objective:Best_community_for_mobile_Linux_innovation
13:19.55lcukweb2.0 autobuilder
13:19.57lcukwith shiny things
13:19.58fluxshadowjk, AJAX server side push \o/
13:20.01Stskeepslcuk: it's called OBS
13:20.02Stskeeps:P
13:20.11RST38hlcuk: That is exactly the opposite to what I would do :)
13:20.17ShadowJKSometimes I think rms hasb the right idea when he emails people asking them to download a webpage for him
13:20.20lcukwhen obs builds mplayer ill accept it
13:20.33lcukits a big problem
13:20.35RST38hStskeeps: For some reason people tend to think that they can solve things through technology
13:20.49tybolltShadowJK: Please say you were being ironic... :-|
13:20.52*** join/#maemo dneary (n=dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary)
13:20.53StskeepsRST38h: ever seen OBS? grab an account on build.opensuse.org
13:20.54RST38hStskeeps: Hence we have Midgard, SB, Ajax, etc
13:21.03lcukwaves @ dnaumov
13:21.05lcukdneary too
13:21.05RST38his not grabbing any new accounts, sorry
13:21.10*** join/#maemo guysoft422 (n=guysoft@bzq-79-176-19-192.red.bezeqint.net)
13:21.11Stskeepsmeh, alright
13:21.22Stskeepsgrabs screenshot
13:21.26dnearylcuk, No I don't
13:21.29ShadowJKtybollt: well atleast with email you dont sit around waiting for immediate response afterwards ;)
13:21.45RST38hStskeeps: The current problems should be resolved on social level + by fixing current infrastructure, even at the cost of dropping the badly broken parts
13:22.07RST38hStskeeps: Throwing more software kludges at them is going to make them worse
13:22.13lcukthe autobuilders got updated didnt they?
13:22.28Gadgetoid_mbpRocks'n'Diamonds now running on my n900... kinda
13:22.29lcukand from submit to accept was <3 mins someone was saying
13:22.45lcukor was that just fluke cos of an empty queue
13:22.46RST38hlcuk: Try promoting a package to -Testing
13:22.53RST38hlcuk: See how long it will take you
13:22.55StskeepsRST38h: this comes with organisational change too though
13:23.06lcukRST38h, yeah that step is harsh
13:23.11RST38hlcuk: Try voting for a package. Try voting for a news item. Try finding your package in the Extras-testing package list.
13:23.19lcukthe whole packages interface is when i noticed it went slower
13:23.34RST38hStskeeps: I do not know and do not care HOW this will come
13:23.53RST38hStskeeps: I just know that it SHOULD come in order for this bunch of people to thrive
13:24.22StskeepsRST38h: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/obs1.png , http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/obs2.png
13:24.43RST38hStskeeps: Well, it is nice littl eimage
13:24.56ShadowJKMaybe voting-doesn't-work-at-all-through-http should be documented somewhere... or on a bugtracker... or maybe the interface shouldn't give you a button to vote over http, which doesn't work...
13:24.59RST38hStskeeps: I cannot judge how well it actually works though
13:25.16RST38hShadowJK: You know what happens with the stuff reported on the bugtrakcer
13:25.34RST38hShadowJK: For example, remember that huge orange rabbit dropping at Maemo Planet?
13:25.41ShadowJKlcuk: what's the problem with using obs to build mplayer?
13:25.46RST38hShadowJK: I reported it at bugzilla months ago. It is still there.
13:26.00ShadowJKorange rabbit dropping?
13:26.09StskeepsShadowJK: that was opensuse build service policy (novell)
13:26.16Stskeepson our own instance this problem wouldn't exist
13:26.20ShadowJKah
13:26.21lcukShadowJK, policy against building anything fun
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13:27.45X-FadeRST38h: Pick battles that are worth fighting. A style element... damn, you must really have a lot of time..
13:27.54RST38hShadowJK: At the right side, the scroll list handle
13:28.08RST38hX-Fade: Well, you know it was just one of many items filed
13:28.25RST38hX-Fade: Only using it as an example of something trivial, that prpbably takes <15 minutes to fix
13:28.30X-FadeRST38h: Filing trivial bugs actually slows progress.
13:28.32dmj726configure: error: Your compiler does not follow the C++ specification for temporary object destruction order.
13:28.45dmj726I'm getting this error, and I'm not sure why?
13:28.45RST38hX-Fade: Well, trivial or not, it is still an orange rabbit dropping :)
13:29.08ShadowJKthe right hand navigation menu covering package descriptions is cute too, but such things seem way too common, also outside of maemo.org for me to care much about..
13:29.43X-FadeRST38h: I'll take a .css which works with all our services.
13:29.44tybolltMFE wizards around here? Can you coerce it into _only_ alerting for messages in the inbox?
13:30.05RST38hX-Fade: Mmm?
13:30.13RST38hX-Fade: Why do you need a single .css?
13:30.14StskeepsX-Fade: btw, is there a list of the cvs/svn/git's of the various maemo.org services?
13:30.25Stskeepsif anyone did want to contribute
13:30.30RST38hAnd why is that orange thing a part of .css at all?
13:30.32lcuka map
13:30.54X-FadeStskeeps: most of it is in maemo2midgard svn on garage
13:30.55lcukStskeeps, its something the distmaster would start off isnt it
13:31.28StskeepsX-Fade: thanks
13:31.52Gadgetoid_mbpHow do I hack an app into the maemo5 apps menu, can launch from the terminal but no keyboard input gets redirected to the app itself
13:31.58RST38hX-Fade: Several people actually wanted to help with the web site
13:32.18StskeepsX-Fade: we should probably put that on wiki in contribution somewhere
13:32.20RST38hX-Fade: Maybe you can let some of them tweak a few things here and there?
13:32.44TomaszDcome on guys, "Cellular Modem Control Buttons" needs one more freaking vote to get into Extras, please vote http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/cell-modem-ui/0.3-0/
13:33.24TomaszDStskeeps, I haven't seen one vote from you, do you not test the apps you download? :P
13:33.51StskeepsTomaszD: to be honest my n900 is generally so messed up my bug reports would often be unreproducible
13:34.01ShadowJKalthough, maemo.org works much better than www.nokia.fi that I tried visiting yesterday. It loaded the page, then it made the page 50% darker, then a big bright rectangle appeared in the middle. The rectangle was eventually filled with helpful tips/adverts how to use Comes With Music. There was no way to get rid of this rectangle, and the links that were not covered by the box, on the actual page, did not work.
13:34.26TomaszDStskeeps, how about a basic backup, reflash, deploy backup, test apps
13:34.38TomaszDbesides you have more than one device
13:34.41Stskeepserr.. no
13:34.44Stskeepsi have one device
13:34.52lcukShadowJK, did you click outside the box!
13:34.59TomaszDah, ok
13:35.10ShadowJKlcuk, yes
13:35.10tybolltTomaszD: scuse a silly user such as me - but how is it different from the "offline mode" given by default?
13:35.22StskeepsX-Fade: if anyone asks in the future, the preferred way to get patches for website is through bugzilla?
13:35.52TomaszDtybollt, you disable the 3G modem, the phone part, wifi and bluetooth stays on, so it's a tablet mode, not offline mode, for saving power.
13:36.03tybolltcheck
13:36.09*** join/#maemo fiferboy (n=fiferboy@Maemo/community/contributor/fiferboy)
13:36.28tybolltare you the maintainer? I think it might be worth elaborating on that in the description actually.
13:36.47TomaszDnah, I'm just browsing through the QA list to get some movement
13:36.49X-FadeStskeeps: Yes, but if the person is someone who can continue to fix things and the fixes are of a decent quality, I won't mind giving svn accees.
13:36.56StskeepsX-Fade: alright
13:37.00TomaszDtybollt, but the description is quite clear actualy
13:37.13StskeepsX-Fade: is packages interface in a SCM anywhere yet? (couldn't find it)
13:37.23Stskeeps(sorry for all the questions, just collecting info)
13:37.25tybolltTomaszD: wait yes
13:37.31tybolltTomaszD: doh, sorry
13:37.37tybolltTomaszD: mea culpa
13:37.42X-FadeStskeeps: Styling in maemo2midgard, package interface is upstream in midgard's svn.
13:37.55TomaszDwell, test it, vote for it, let's get some movement in extras
13:38.18Jaffagoes to vote for it having tested it
13:38.19tybolltI think "sign up/register" is the first part (for me :)
13:38.35TomaszDyou do that then
13:38.50FIQhm
13:38.56X-FadeStskeeps: http://trac.midgard-project.org/browser/branches/ragnaroek/midcom/org.maemo.packages
13:38.56FIQthe table mode..
13:39.19TomaszDalso, call forwarding applet needs two more votes guys http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/callforwarding/0.3.1/
13:39.29FIQi've heard it was available on firmware prereleases, but not the official and some app turned it back?
13:39.53TomaszDFIQ, yes, so vote for that app http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/cell-modem-ui/0.3-0/ :)
13:39.53JaffaFIQ: Correct.
13:40.41StskeepsX-Fade: thanks!
13:40.46StskeepsX-Fade: making a wiki page
13:41.08FIQi haven't an account or device yet, but i will get it soon. :p
13:41.33FIQjust waiting for a new stock in some web sellers coming 13th jan
13:42.11FIQand then, i can finally play with the N900. :d
13:42.28FIQs/d/D/
13:42.35FIQ???
13:42.39FIQw/e
13:42.51RST38hBTW, could someone vote for Javispedro's build of Vulture's Eye?
13:42.56hrwgosh... I hate maemo filemanager
13:43.10tybollt?
13:43.13hrwno way to enter /home/user/modules/ dir
13:43.17tybolltit has xterm, what more can you ask?
13:43.30hrwtybollt: ;D
13:43.33RST38hhrw: As soon as you stop calling it filemanager it becomes ok :)
13:43.45hrwRST38h: sure, but it is named filemanager
13:43.57FIQhm
13:44.12RST38hhrw: By mistake, I am sure :)
13:44.32FIQi've heard of KDE for maemo, is it any progress at all on that?
13:45.02hrwFIQ: for maemo or for nxxx?
13:45.20FIQmaemo5/N900
13:45.31X-FadeFIQ: Qt4.5 is on the device by default
13:45.38StskeepsX-Fade: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community/Contribute
13:45.39X-FadeFIQ: Qt 4.6 is in extras-devel
13:45.42FIQk
13:45.51hrwmy god... running kde under maemo5 would be disaster
13:46.04X-FadeKDE however, nah ;)
13:46.07StskeepsX-Fade: could be good in order to delegate work to volunters
13:46.08hrwrunning it instead of maemo5 UI would be better
13:46.25RST38hPlease, vote for XChat here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/xchat/2.8.6-maemo14/
13:46.34X-FadeStskeeps: Sure, everything is out in the open anyway.
13:46.44StskeepsX-Fade: yeah, it's just difficult to chase down
13:46.51RST38hTomaszd: I will change the control file lines next time I reboot into Linux.
13:48.05TomaszDRST38h, you're the xchat maintainer? thanks :)
13:48.44tybolltFIQ: really? kde4 running on the n900? :D
13:49.48TomaszDI'm looking through the extras-testing vote count and there are many apps which are on the verge of being accepted into Extras, it's just that very few people test and vote
13:50.03ifreqgive app which to use for voting
13:50.16FIQi don't know if it's true, but somewhere i heard that.. for about 1-2months ago, and in a _very_ early stage, don't heard anything about it after that
13:50.18RST38hTomaszD: Proposal to lower threshold from 10 to 5 votes has been agreed upon but never implemented.
13:50.41TomaszDalright, first of all this needs only a couple of votes http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/callforwarding/0.3.1/
13:50.41FIQ@tybollt
13:50.58RST38hhas not installed this one
13:51.33leon-what have I done now, reflashed the device and phone functionalities and 3g are crippled :)
13:51.48TomaszDRST38h, who is at fault?
13:51.53hrwshit... looks like my DDP n900 has something fucked with keyboard backlight
13:52.14X-Fadehrw: did you enable r-d mode?
13:52.20leon-is the US 42.11 pr firmware simlocked or something like that?
13:52.35TomaszDthe maemo-geolocation plugin needs three votes. It works fine. http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/maemo-geolocation/1.1.3-1/
13:52.46RST38hTomaszD: Ask either X-Fade or jeremiah
13:52.57RST38hTomaszD: May also want to ask VDVsx
13:53.03lcukhrw, ummm sure you are not in ummmm dev mode in the flasher (forget actual name)
13:53.07RST38hyea, voting for geolocation
13:53.13hrwX-Fade: good question
13:53.32TomaszDX-Fade, jeremiah, VDVsx, why is this bottleneck of 10 votes required, when 5 votes were agreed upon?
13:53.33lcukthats it X-Fade lol
13:54.19X-FadeTomaszD: Server work comes first. Then we'll work on improvements first.
13:54.28X-Fade- 2nd first ;)
13:54.40TomaszDthe voting spree should continue though, there is a simple game from Maemo 4, crazy parking, which works, is a bit quirky with notifications, but works fine, just like on the n810, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/crazyparking/0.2.7-3/
13:54.55TomaszD^ 2 votes required
13:55.15RST38h"Game not started" bug?
13:55.19TomaszDyeah
13:55.29ShadowJKi thought that was in the ... game framework thingy..
13:55.31RST38hThis is not Crazy Parking's fault
13:55.39TomaszDok then, vote :)
13:55.40RST38hShadowJK: Exactly
13:55.48FIQgame
13:56.01FIQnow i lost again..
13:56.06RST38hTomaszD: note that it takes minutes to vote for a single app
13:56.23RST38hTomaszD: So even voting for them is kinda painful and time consuming
13:56.33*** join/#maemo notrev (n=earruda@189.2.128.130)
13:56.37ShadowJK(and it doesn't work on http)
13:56.41TomaszDRST38h, no it doesn't, just click to vote and move on, leave the page loading, you can open multiple tabs...
13:56.47RST38hShadowJK: Works via http for me
13:56.55ShadowJKdidn't work for me :/
13:57.07RST38hTomaszD: You know what? You can duplicate VDVsx's idea
13:57.15RST38hTomaszD: He has done a really simple thing
13:57.21TomaszDwhich is?
13:57.48RST38hTomaszD: He collected all direct voting page URLs for packages he considered fit and posted them as one big list to tmo
13:57.55RST38hTomaszD: Worked like a charm
13:58.03ShadowJKLOL
13:58.10TomaszDpeople are that lazy?
13:58.10RST38hBecause navigating the current package interface is like thawing permafrost
13:58.29TomaszDI mean I shouldn't be surprised, the interface is slow, testing takes time
13:58.34ShadowJKI only do it for specific apps I used on N8x0 that I'm interested in ;)
13:58.39RST38hTomaszD: Partially that but mainly because the current web interface pretty much DOES NOT WANT you to use it
13:58.50VDVsxTomaszD, I'm also proposing a team of testers in this month sprint, you seem a good candidate :p
13:58.54MuhviHi, do you have any ideas if the default mediaplayer in N900 has any easier ways to make playlists
13:59.01RST38hTomaszD: A lot of people are already using these apps just not voting
13:59.08ShadowJKbtw, from maemo.org, how do you navigate to packages?
13:59.17RST38hAhahha
13:59.20RST38hthere is no link :)))
13:59.30TomaszDthis is a sad situation
13:59.32RST38hShadowJK: maemo.org/packages is not accessible from maemo.org via links
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13:59.40RST38hpromptly facepalms
13:59.41TomaszDI think I discovered the voting process by chance
13:59.43FIQdownloads i think?
13:59.43FIQseems logical
13:59.55ShadowJKTomaszD, me too
14:00.07RST38hFIQ: only Downloads is for Extras
14:00.14ShadowJKBut I was wondering how many steps away from maemo.org it is. Whether you can find a path through clicking wiki first or whatever
14:00.21RST38hBUT, this made me think of something
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14:00.42RST38hShadowJK, TomaszD, VDVsx: Got a crazy idea.
14:01.12TomaszDRST38h, probably something revolutionary, like a link to the voting pages from maemo.org?
14:01.13VDVsxI also proposing "testing app of the day"
14:01.19VDVsxmaemo.org front page
14:01.25RST38hTomaszD: Not revolutionary at all
14:01.27VDVsxwith the required warning of course
14:01.36TomaszDRST38h, I was being sarcastic...
14:01.38TomaszD:)
14:01.49TomaszDAnyway, I'm up for the testing team or whatever the name
14:01.58TomaszDjust contact me when anything happens
14:02.08RST38hShadowJK, TomaszD, VDVsx: We can take PackRat, install it to a server outside of Maemo.org and modify it a little bit to crawl and display extras-testing, extras, and extras-devel packages
14:02.14*** join/#maemo milos_ (n=milos@92.36.172.101)
14:02.25RST38hFurthermore, I can add to each Extras-testing a direct link to vote for it
14:02.39RST38h(insert "package" before "a direct link")
14:02.59TomaszDRST38h, have you checked the latest AppWatch application? the UI is a bit weird (almost invisible scroll bars) but it's really really nice for sorting and displaying repos
14:03.18TomaszDit would be cool if people could vote directly from that app
14:03.18VDVsxRST38h, I'm not familiar with packrat have to check it
14:03.20RST38hTomaszD: Yes, it is pretty nice but strikes me as a bit of overkill
14:03.30RST38hVDvsx: http://ageofikon.info/packrat/
14:03.43TomaszDoverkill... maybe not, it's just a power user's tool, not a user's tool
14:03.50RST38hTomaszD: A web interface should probably suffice and can be used to show more information
14:04.09RST38hTomaszD: Also, you can change and evolve web interface waaaay faster than an app
14:04.55TomaszDbefore that happens, please vote for the new bluetooth-dun package which doesn't require to reboot the phone to enable the service any more http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/bluetooth-dun/1.0-5/
14:06.52TomaszDI think no matter what we try, there needs to be a more authoritarian approach to this process, like a few dedicated people with more power in their hands, I don't know what power exacty, but maybe blocking an app from getting into Extras, because people stupidly voted for a broken version, etc
14:07.30RST38hTomaszD: Making things more authoritarian rarely helps.
14:07.41RST38hBut I guess you already know that :)
14:08.01TomaszDyeah, I'm just thinking about it, I guess a better, faster web service would do the trick
14:08.16RST38hexactly. with a somewhat lower threshold.
14:08.27TomaszDthere's also a conflict of interest, we don't want people to break their devices, but we do want them to test
14:08.28tabMonkeyI like the idea of having an application to do the voting / commenting with. Atilla's appwatch gets the data anyway, but he said earlier that he's hesitant to implement that until the servers get fixed
14:08.40TomaszDexpose the link to extras-testing making it easier to install the repo, or not.
14:09.21RST38hTomaszD: Well, unless you give people something in exchange (money, candy, sexual satisfaction), it won't work
14:09.28*** join/#maemo Texrat (n=fabricat@pool-173-74-18-244.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)
14:10.09RST38hTomaszD: Even a satisfying thump! sound when voting will suffice
14:10.09TomaszDmany people are adventerous enough without having to give them anything in exchange
14:10.17RST38hTomaszD: Oh no
14:10.40RST38hTomaszD: They will install anything just to see how it works, this is their rewards
14:10.52RST38hTomaszD: But by voting you are not getting any reward
14:10.59TomaszDthat's true.
14:11.10RST38hYou already installed it, it works, why vote?
14:11.12TomaszDI guess you don't even get karma, do you?
14:11.33RST38hno idea... you probably do get some karma
14:12.29TomaszDwhat I've noticed is that reporting bugs gives massive amounts of karma, maybe voting should give people more karma...
14:12.31TomaszDI don't know
14:12.36pupnik_one thing i can do is sound editing
14:12.38TomaszDI'm running out of ideas.
14:13.01pupnik_why care about karma?
14:13.10pupnik_have fun, do stuff
14:13.14TomaszDsome people do, so why not tap that source
14:13.37tybolltpupnik_: because popular TV series teach us that if you don't... you get run over by a car the minute after you score the million dollar lottery ticket.
14:14.02TomaszD*tap into that source
14:14.07TomaszDit came out all wrong ;)
14:14.19*** join/#maemo hardaker (n=hardaker@mail.hardakers.net)
14:14.36pupnik_heh
14:15.14TomaszDalright, one last app for today, 2 more votes, GPXView, personally I don't use it, but it does work fine, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/gpxview/0.9.1/
14:15.26RST38htybollt: popular videogames teach us that you get 5000 karma for hitting 5 low-karma humans in a row though
14:15.36timeless_mbpandre__: ping
14:15.49pupnik_i am de-suckifying a game atm
14:15.58andre__timeless_mbp, pong
14:16.00pupnik_very fun
14:16.01tybolltRST38h: >:)
14:16.07timeless_mbpandre__: so about that browser select bug
14:16.08KamuiWrkanyone using vpnc
14:16.17timeless_mbpdid you confirm it w/ 41, 42 or 51?
14:16.18KamuiWrkis it capable of pptp or only ipsec
14:16.32timeless_mbpbecause w/ things after 42 i'm not experiencing what the reporter described
14:18.04wiretappedis there some way to see the raw message or at least the full headers in modest?
14:18.56*** join/#maemo Erod (n=Juno@unaffiliated/erod)
14:19.00timeless_mbp(7669)
14:19.08andre__timeless_mbp, i can confirm in 53-1
14:19.35tabMonkeywiretapped: ~/.modest/cache/mail/imap/name of account/folders/INBOX
14:19.44tabMonkeyyou should be able to view them there
14:20.14tabMonkeyif nowhere else
14:20.49*** join/#maemo sopi (n=feri@a88-114-210-83.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
14:21.06timeless_mbpandre__: hrm
14:21.15timeless_mbpwhen i tap in 51 it doesn't jump me
14:21.26timeless_mbpand it doesn't jump in my colleague's things either
14:22.01wiretappedtabMonkey: awesome, thanks! was hoping for a better way, but that works
14:22.16tabMonkeynp
14:22.59andre__timeless_mbp, did you scroll down to "Browser"? did you tap it?
14:24.12timeless_mbpyes. yes.
14:24.39*** join/#maemo tekonivel (n=user@ns.lasipalatsi.net)
14:25.02timeless_mbpah
14:25.05timeless_mbptype bro
14:25.29timeless_mbpthen scroll to Browser, tap it, tap done
14:25.34timeless_mbpso i can accidentally work around it
14:25.59timeless_mbpbecause the "logical path" gets me to where i kinda want to go
14:26.07timeless_mbpthe "fast logical path" fails as described
14:26.34leon-is it std procedure that the sim is not working on the first boot, if you flash the mmc stuff?
14:28.23*** join/#maemo Acedip (n=ani@fedora/Acedip)
14:29.03*** join/#maemo tekojo (n=quassel@Maemo/maemo.org/infrastructure/tekojo)
14:29.19andre__timeless_mbp, well, don't type. scroll ;-)
14:29.50*** part/#maemo feri (n=feri@a88-114-210-83.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
14:30.05timeless_mbpandre__: "workaround available"
14:30.46RST38hOh. N900 hung.
14:35.17*** join/#maemo felipec (n=felipec@esprx02x.nokia.com)
14:36.31*** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@217.174.199.201)
14:38.06*** join/#maemo myosound (n=myosound@g2s.nthp.org)
14:44.11RST38hHehe, MediaBox has no exit button :
14:44.51*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gateway.sunflowerbroadband.com)
14:46.06RST38hUninstall =(
14:46.16*** join/#maemo wazd_e63 (n=wazd@83.149.9.40)
14:46.22slonopotamusexit buttons are for dweebs
14:46.27*** join/#maemo rdorsch (n=rd@p5B201EB9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
14:46.40RST38hslonopotamus: thus uninstalling...
14:47.02RST38hon the positive side, the mediabox UI is somewhat more clear now
14:47.09leon-has anybody else experienced the sort of an issue that the after flashing the device will just not get any network and does not even ask for pin code?
14:48.03danielwilmsleon- which version did you have before and to which version did you flash??
14:48.32*** join/#maemo zenvoid_ (n=rgs@165.pool85-59-255.dynamic.orange.es)
14:50.09leon-well, I had the most current firmware from R&D flashed on the device, but as that didn't work with the nokia-binaries I reflashed back to 42-11
14:50.55leon-if I now reflash the thing back to the current R&D it works ok, but 42-11 is a no go
14:52.11*** join/#maemo bib (n=bib@93.11.8.237)
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14:56.54tekojoleon- you can't downgrade after going beyond a certain week
14:57.30tekojounless you are inside Nokia and get professional help :-)
14:57.56*** join/#maemo esaym153 (n=esaym153@cpe-24-174-176-203.satx.res.rr.com)
14:58.20leon-tekojo, ok..
14:58.35Wolfiepeople get professional help in nokia? whoa
14:58.40leon-well, I'll just cope with the latest and the greatest then
14:59.23tekojoWolfie we do have the people who really know and then us normal people
15:00.04*** join/#maemo warp10 (n=warp10@host180-138-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
15:00.36Wolfietekojo: i think you missed my quip, but that's ok.
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15:01.05jiajiahow is going with chinese input does anyone know if it is now availible
15:01.16*** join/#maemo oilinki (n=oil@ip-208-109-22-97.ip.secureserver.net)
15:01.43tekojono, I decided to ignore it :-)
15:02.05Wolfiewell done, then
15:02.27*** join/#maemo timsamoff (n=chatzill@ppp-70-246-246-179.dsl.ksc2mo.swbell.net)
15:02.46Stskeepsjiajia: there's maemo-scim project i think
15:03.26Wolfieso, have i understood correctly, that any firmware updates for n900 must be flashed, instead of doing a normal linuxy kernel update?
15:04.06CaesiumOTA updates should come through app manager as I understand it
15:04.08Wolfiei guess what i'm asking is, must the firmware be updated with a computer, or can it be done over the air with only the phone itself?
15:04.16Wolfieright
15:04.30Caesiumwhether 1.1 will be OTA is another question :)
15:05.10Wolfiegotcha. thanks.
15:05.42*** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-fee1dc00-2.dhcp.inet.fi)
15:08.06*** join/#maemo lardman (n=vircuser@92.28.130.76)
15:08.12lardmanhi chaps
15:08.19lardman& chapesses
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15:09.37SpeedEvilI'm not sure I like the unable to downgrade firmware thing. I hope that's a bug to be fixed.
15:10.51RST38hchaps, chapesses, and chaperones
15:11.03*** join/#maemo deadbyrd (i=42da7fd8@gateway/web/freenode/x-fdozraglreymaqao)
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15:11.27lardmanSpeedEvil: I wonder if it's because the new image contains the starts of the DRM stuff?
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15:13.42FIQHow long does a battery last for you on heavely (i pwnd at spelling) use?
15:13.56lcuklardman, more likely because backwards and forwards compatability is harder to deal and much less of an issue
15:14.06lardmanlcuk: who knows
15:14.09lcukat least from old style experience
15:14.46fragmentFIQ: I guess you mean N900?
15:14.48CaesiumFIQ: constant backlight and wifi on? less than a day
15:15.25FIQsay that I have microB, Xchat and some msn application running, how long would it last?
15:15.25FIQ(that's the common apps i use on my current)
15:15.44fragmentFIQ: 3G connection on all the time?
15:18.32matthew-FIQ: a few hours
15:18.34matthew-(4-5)
15:19.14fralshmm, you know you go too long between implementing and testing when the cat falls asleep on your n900
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15:23.01vesa3g is a real batteryhogger atleast here. even wifi uses less. with no active connections you can get 2-3 days easily (light web-browsing/rss/whatnot)
15:23.15vesaactive = always on i mean
15:23.34RST38hArkenoi: so, are we finally getting 3g or not, btw?
15:23.40mgedminis a real battery-hogger, drains his n900 twice a day
15:23.59RST38hah, the vampire
15:24.21RST38hmgedmin: btw, vote: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/xchat/2.8.6-maemo14/
15:24.38mgedminwas the "crashes on settings" bug fixed?
15:24.46RST38hyes
15:24.52RST38hand the power drain too (I hope)
15:25.06*** join/#maemo jebba1 (n=jebba@host131.190-231-141.telecom.net.ar)
15:25.23RST38hto test the latter, either delete ~/.xchat2 or change lagometer value to 0
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15:29.58fralsonly diff between 13 and 14 conf is the lagometer? :)
15:31.18SpeedEvilxchat seems to use about 14 min/day or so of CPU in a busyish channel
15:32.51Stskeepsbergie: random question, will brainstorm be having a search?
15:33.01Arkenoirst38h: mts, yes. already seen it. megafon - not yet
15:33.48RST38hArkenoi: Where? WHERE?
15:33.48bergieStskeeps: yes
15:34.04Stskeepsbergie: good, was going nuts about not being able to find it :P
15:34.11Arkenoirst38h: yesterday seen it at netname on Sukharevskaya
15:34.24bergieStskeeps: but before that, googling with inurl: is a good start :-)
15:34.37ArkenoiMTS also claims it has continuous converage for metro circular line
15:34.41Arkenoitunnels as well
15:35.16Stskeepsbergie: will be moving the open sourcing queue to brainstorm so having tags or something to keep them together with string would be nice :P
15:35.39ceda_Nokia n97 had a feature that tested the WLAN connection for a capture page (You need to enter a code to access the network: [    ])
15:35.59ceda_I've not seen anything like that on the N900/Maemo 5
15:36.16cedaI tried to find a bugzilla for it but failed to find one
15:36.18*** join/#maemo alextreme (n=alex@82-171-161-1.ip.telfort.nl)
15:36.19ShadowJKSpeedEvil, don't forget about wakeups
15:36.50bergieStskeeps: can you post a ticket about that? Should be easy
15:37.04bergieStskeeps: openness stuff could be a category too
15:37.43RST38hArkenoi: Have not seen it at the ring line
15:39.36SpeedEvilShadowJK: of course
15:39.59cedahttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5723 is a severe version of this :P
15:40.01povbot`Bug 5723: N900 multiple crashes that led to device failure with wireless network that redirects to a login page
15:40.52SpeedEvilShadowJK: however the first is easily measured, the cost of the second needs to be measured with external equipment, or with a rundown test that's complex to get right
15:40.52RST38hcead: Ah I know this one
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15:41.04*** part/#maemo _claesbas (i=53f1f704@gateway/web/freenode/x-gbobjetjttitzlyi)
15:41.09RST38hceda: It renders IM plugins unusable until you restart them
15:41.32*** join/#maemo aakashd (n=aakashd@nat/mozilla/x-dfkyfmmstcgijilf)
15:42.53*** join/#maemo Macer (i=mace@rancorous.net)
15:44.50Stskeepsbergie: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7676
15:44.51povbot`Bug 7676: Add 'Open sourcing' category to brainstorm
15:45.30bergiethx
15:45.36*** join/#maemo zero (n=H31180Y@201.159.131.194)
15:46.45TomaszDis thinking of trying to port wesnoth
15:46.58TomaszDshouldn't be too hard (famous last words)
15:47.20SpeedEvilis thinking of trying to - instead of doing something sensible - porting nethack for 34 keys.
15:48.20lardmanis cursing material noise
15:48.22KamuiWrknethack is the best game of all time
15:48.26KamuiWrknext to maybe angband ;)
15:48.41X-FadeTomaszD: Wasn't wesnoth already porte?
15:48.58KamuiWrkwesnoth, I think is still only running on the older tablets
15:49.03TomaszDX-Fade, I'm looking through the garage project
15:49.10X-FadeHmm I really have packetloss on my keyboard ;)
15:49.19fiferboyTomaszD: Someone is working on Wesnoth now
15:49.30*** join/#maemo an0therb0x (n=priest@pool-173-66-163-104.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
15:49.49fiferboyTomaszD: I did a bit of work on a Diablo port, and it really isn't too difficult (especially with Glenn's patches in garage)
15:49.51cedaRST38h: it also hans modest until some timeout. It also tells me "Exchange server not responding" - basically I get loads of messages instead of a browser :/
15:49.57TomaszDwhat's there to work on? The worst screw-up you can do is actually release all the debs to the user category instead of having one package and hiding everything else
15:50.01SpeedEvilX-Fade: crumbs are not packets.
15:50.23TomaszDlike the retarded gcompris sound modules in the user category
15:50.25X-FadeSpeedEvil: Don't know the status. Just saw some activity..
15:50.36cedaRST38h: have you seen any bug reports on this? I'm about to file a new one having searched for some time now
15:50.49fiferboyTomaszD: It needs a bit of maemo-izing on the debian packages, the rules file needs some changes, and there are some SDL tweaks that can be beneficial
15:50.51an0therb0xhello, where can i get a list of available repositories for the N900 ?
15:50.56timeless_mbpX-Fade: ping
15:51.07timeless_mbpi'm looking at the export contact dialog and seeking help
15:51.11TomaszDfiferboy, I'll make sure to steal what I can
15:51.13TomaszD:)
15:51.24cedaan0therb0x: repository.maemo.org has a list somewhere
15:51.39X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Don't look at me? :)
15:51.42fcrozathmm, my n900 rebooted while idle
15:51.53fcrozat(I just noticed the nokia logo )
15:51.59timeless_mbpX-Fade: i just want someone who speaks English to lend a sympathetic ear
15:52.03cedaan0therb0x: http://repository.maemo.org/ is what I was thinking of
15:52.23fiferboyTomaszD: The guy working on it is the other person listed on the garage page (besides Glenn and I)
15:52.35an0therb0xceda: thanks
15:52.36fcrozat32wd_to
15:52.50TomaszDfiferboy, I only see diablo-specific patches
15:53.04*** join/#maemo zenvoid__ (n=rgs@165.pool85-59-255.dynamic.orange.es)
15:53.08TomaszDsome scratchboxisms and a linking problem patch
15:53.15fiferboyTomaszD: Yeah, he hasn't put anything in the repo yet - but you could email him and find out if he has made any progress
15:53.58TomaszDfiferboy, non-public efforts don't count, I guess I'll e-mail him if I fail ;)
15:54.23TomaszDfiferboy, and you can do one thing for me, i18n-ize your widgets already! :P
15:54.35fiferboyTomaszD: True.  Wesnoth could definitely do with an optification
15:54.52fiferboyTomaszD: Sure, after I get more than 5 hours sleep in a stretch I will :P
15:55.08TomaszDfiferboy, not only optification, but a clever way to package it, so it doesn't flood the app manager
15:55.33TomaszDI even saw some gstreamer plugins in the user category, I'm not sure if people know what they're doing..
15:55.44*** join/#maemo seba (n=seba@bvh235.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
15:56.14fiferboyTomaszD: There should be at least the main package, data package (maybe data and sound together?), and a giant campaign package?
15:56.44fiferboyTomaszD: I assume you don't like having thirty different campaign packages all separate
15:56.49TomaszDfiferboy, I was thinking about normal users who don't care about packages, and release wesnoth-all as the public one
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15:56.56TomaszDhide the rest
15:56.57timeless_mbpandre__: ping
15:56.57timeless_mbphttps://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?classification=Maemo%20Official%20Applications
15:57.02timeless_mbpThe Email application "Modest" (used since Maemo 4) (Note, please file Exchange bugs under Synchronization)
15:57.08timeless_mbpwhere is 'synchronization'?
15:57.15fiferboyTomaszD: Probably not a bad option for the N900, with lots of space in opt
15:57.40timeless_mbpoh, it's in platform
15:57.45TomaszDyep, as long I can make optification work, which I think is doable, wesnoth-all should be the only one visible
15:58.14*** join/#maemo Hexagoon (i=Hexagon@c83-255-113-135.bredband.comhem.se)
15:58.19fiferboyTomaszD: Should be easy - just have wesnoth-all in user and the others not in user
15:58.25TomaszDfiferboy, there are no troubles with right-clicking btw? (as in, useless without right click)
15:58.29TomaszDfiferboy, indeed
15:59.03fiferboyTomaszD: I think it can be played without right-click, there are some keyboard shortcuts and menus that should do everything
15:59.11TomaszDok then
15:59.44TomaszDdinner first though...
15:59.45fiferboyTomaszD: If you start with the latest debian stable packages there might be some library version issues
15:59.54fiferboyis thinking of libboost particularly
16:00.16TomaszDfiferboy, I'll try the next best thing and downgrade the versions and see what happens
16:00.32fiferboyTomaszD: Sounds good.  Give me a shout if you want some help
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16:00.49*** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=rsalveti@200.184.118.130)
16:01.01TomaszDfiferboy, thanks
16:01.03bibUSSD il possible with N900 ?
16:01.25RST38hpromptly curses libboost and everyone who worked on it
16:02.31cedaRST38h: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7678
16:02.32povbot`Bug 7678: connection to wlan with login page should launch browser
16:02.37*** join/#maemo IRCMonkey (n=tonikito@189.2.128.130)
16:03.02RST38hceda: I am afraid the bug reporter is asking too much
16:03.15RST38hbut yea, this is how it should behave
16:04.01TomaszDtoo much? if it works in symbian, does it mean that maemo is an inferior platform?
16:04.15RST38hDunno, I just feel it will never be implemented
16:04.39TomaszDI hope Nokia devs don't share your feelings
16:04.40TomaszD:)
16:09.14cedaRST38h: Well, the reporter is me and going in/out of the office at least twice a day makes this phone pretty annoying (since it's missing this feature)
16:10.33cedaI'd be happy with a workaround (a python-script listening to some dbus event/signal)
16:10.49vpvthe maemo repos seem to be really slow...
16:10.53SpeedEvilMeh.
16:11.02Stskeepsvpv: what's your location and what kind of response are you getting?
16:11.07SpeedEvilY'all know that I've been wondering about USB host for a while?
16:11.22SpeedEvilSeems very likely it's a solder job to fix it. And not an easy one either.
16:11.24SpeedEvil:/
16:11.25RST38hceda: I simply leave th ephone at the officc
16:12.11vpvStskeeps: I'm using them from Finland via my wlan, I added fremantle tools and installed htop, "apt-get update" took quite a while but actually installing the package seemed to be a bit faster.
16:12.40vpvand seems like it wasn't cpu bound, I have the system load applet running
16:12.42luke-jrStskeeps: power abuser
16:13.22Arkenoimost "login pages" actually are fallback from some authentication standard
16:13.35cedaRST38h: you don't use a phone out of the office? :)
16:13.51Arkenoicannot remember its name but the idea is that if you have proper auth client installed you never see a "login page"
16:14.05Arkenoismartconnect on s60 did support it
16:14.06cedaArkenoi: well, this WLAN has a CAPTCHA box
16:14.11RST38hceda: nope, why
16:14.45RST38hArkenoi: Not when you are using evil stuff like cell-provider wifi services or Intel guest wifi
16:14.47cedaRST38h: I use my phone to talk to friends and family, and read RSS feeds on my way home from and to work, ...
16:15.08RST38hceda: I use it on the way from/to home of course
16:15.13RST38hjust not during lunch breaks
16:15.42cedaah :)
16:16.21pupnik_argh.  segfaults segfaults
16:16.48Arkenoirst38h: at least golden wifi does support it
16:18.01RST38hgolden - maybe
16:18.21*** join/#maemo igagis (n=igagis@ns2.vsev.lanck.net)
16:18.40RST38hArkenoi: stopped at that japanese place yesterday, it had free wifi
16:19.04RST38hArkenoi: Very convenient =)
16:19.42Arkenoibtw what is the point of having login page if wifi is free anyways?
16:20.00mgedmincustomer annoyance
16:20.01luke-jrfaster speeds?
16:21.12*** join/#maemo ml-N900 (n=wat@166.191.65.46)
16:21.31RST38hArkenoi: ads, I guess
16:21.59*** join/#maemo philo (i=4618df12@gateway/web/freenode/x-kldzgywjnbhnlyed)
16:22.43*** part/#maemo jeremiah (n=jeremiah@c83-248-143-10.bredband.comhem.se)
16:22.48cedaI like "356 Kernel lacks IPv6 support" :D
16:22.57*** part/#maemo danielwilms (n=dwilms@dasasob.nokia.com)
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16:23.28philoanyone bying an n900 from dell
16:23.34philothey have a pretty sweet deal
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16:25.23dmj726morning
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16:26.38dmj726Unlocked phones connected to Ubuntu boxen are great
16:26.46TomaszDfiferboy, you said it, libboost problems, tweaking debian/control...
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16:32.46dmj726n900 + ubuntu netbook = travelling wifi hotspot
16:33.08dmj726takes about 2 minutes to setup though
16:33.22slonopotamusanyone successfully repartitioned n900? got a link with info?
16:33.58dmj726slonopotamus: you're refering to making the home folder ext?
16:34.08dmj726weren't there camera problems?
16:34.46slonopotamusdmj726, i feel myself very constrained in 256mb rootfs and want to do smth with it
16:35.13SpeedEvilslonopotamus: you can't
16:35.14dmj726well that's on its own 256 mb drive
16:35.15X-Fadeslonopotamus: You can't repartion the root as that physical chip is only 256 ;)
16:35.20SpeedEvilslonopotamus: / is on a 256M hardware
16:35.21dmj726exactly
16:35.40zashwhatsitcalled, unisonfs or somethnig?
16:35.49slonopotamusthen obvios fix is to move it somewhere else :)
16:35.52slonopotamusubifs
16:36.09X-Fadeslonopotamus: Yeah, that is an option.
16:36.30X-FadeAlthough you probably need a bootmenu for N900 then.
16:37.50Hexagoonwhy have a bigger root?
16:37.58TomaszDfiferboy, around?
16:38.08Hexagoonall apps should be in /opt/ and all docs in /home/user/MyDocs
16:38.19dmj726because root has a nasty tendency to fill up if you install non-optified apps
16:38.35Hexagoonwhy install non optified apps then? ;)
16:38.38X-FadeWhy not just mount /usr somewhere else?
16:38.43X-Fadeif you really want to?
16:38.46TomaszDanyone knows what to do with SDL_mixer has no OGG support!
16:38.51TomaszDother than disabling sound?
16:39.06slonopotamusX-Fade, that all just complicates everything.
16:39.10RST38hyou can probably recompile libsdlmixer
16:39.14RST38hor whatever it is called
16:39.17X-FadeTomaszD: Or transcode ;)
16:39.17SpeedEvildmj726: I've found that reflashing a week ago and reinstalling all my apps - most of them have been optified
16:39.19ShapeshifterHas imagemagick been packaged for the n900 yet?
16:39.27TomaszDX-Fade, heh
16:39.48dmj726SpeedEvil: do you install from devel?
16:41.14SpeedEvilyues
16:41.33dmj726okay
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16:41.55Arkenoiused "live optifying" script from tmo and found it to be almost perfect solution
16:42.16ShadowJKalmost?
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16:43.53ArkenoiShadowJK, a few minor glitches with application icons and i still don't know if everything gonna be ok after i get system update
16:44.27RST38hTheme created by
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16:44.27RST38hMobile - Advertising Programs - Business Solutions - Privacy Policy - Help - About Google
16:44.27RST38h©2010 Google
16:44.36RST38hOh shit. Sorry.
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16:46.23AndrewFBlackHello
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16:50.06ccookeHuh. Even though I can't currently charge it, my n900 is a better phone than my previous one. Damnit.
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16:50.43RST38hso you couldn't charge your previous one either?
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16:52.43ccookeRST38h: no, but the n900 gets massively better reception :-)
16:53.34luke-jrccooke: if the previous one is a Nokia, the batteries might be compatible
16:53.47ccookeunfortunately not
16:54.00ccookebut I'll have a battery charger soon
16:54.16ccookewell, I will if I don't decide to buy my own n900 early
16:54.16*** join/#maemo Xisdibik (n=Xisdibik@206-169-98-162.static.twtelecom.net)
16:54.30ccookemust find the time to work out who to ask about the n900
16:54.36luke-jrO.o
16:55.14ccookemy maemo summit loaner n900's usb socket has fallen out - this is a known problem.
16:55.31ccookeI need to find out if Nokia can be persueded to do anything about it, basically
16:56.10ccookehell, I'd happily pay to get it fixed (so that I don't have to buy my own n900 *this* month, rather than in April :-)
16:56.36Xisdibik*jedi mind tricks* you want YOUR n900 now, go buy it
16:56.36Xisdibik:D
16:57.04ccookeXisdibik: of course I do. However, I'm trying to avoid it right this moment :-)
16:57.30Xisdibikavoiding will just make you suffer more :)
16:58.03RST38hResistance is futile.
16:58.37RST38hYou will be ass...assi...assi....whacked with the rest of us
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16:59.48ccookeRST38h:
17:00.20ccookehey, I've aready bought one...
17:00.36ccooke(for my wife, who has been swapping batteries with me the last couple of days :-)
17:00.42leon-hmm, where can one find the hwid code of the n900?
17:00.56leon-http://vaibhavsharma.wordpress.com/files/2009/08/new-nokia-internet-tablet-3.jpg
17:00.57lucenthwid?
17:01.07woglindehm the next epic fail
17:01.19woglindetelefonmanager dont accept *100#
17:01.21leon-it seems that it is mentioned under the battery on some devices, but mine doesn't have it
17:01.27dmj726Is it just me or are there a lot of family members that buy one after seeing the n900
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17:02.01ccookeleon-: you can get the same information from the Settings applet
17:02.02lucentdmj726: or the 'droid, if they like Verizon service and are US-based
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17:02.12leon-ccooke, ok
17:02.20woglindedmj726 no
17:02.27ccookeleon-: at the bottom - about, or something
17:02.38woglindeI dont know much who buyed it
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17:03.18ccookeknows of... hmm. Five people who've bought n900s at his instigation
17:03.18dmj726I just heard that ccooke's wife got one.  My mom got one.
17:03.26dmj726really?
17:03.43TomaszDwill I get crucified by Nokia if I upload a replacement package for libsdl-mixer1.2 with ogg support?
17:04.02woglindeccooke are they all millionairs?
17:04.03ccookeoh, no. Six. One of those five ended up getting one for their partner
17:04.14leon-ccooke, no hwid there :o
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17:04.16ccookewoglinde: No, they all got subsidised deals.
17:04.17woglindeI never would pay 600 bucks for telephone
17:04.41leon-only software version, wlan mac, bt address and imei
17:05.06ccookeleon-: wlan mac is the hwid they've used before
17:05.24lucentwoglinde: I think similarly, I paid $530 for my N900 and there may or may not be an additional $50 prepaid visa card coming my way for the Ovi Store rebate offered to US buyers
17:05.34Arkenoinever owned a telephone that was cheaper than $600 when introduced
17:05.43lucentthat's the absolute high end of what I would pay for a computer, much less a phone
17:05.57lucentit's just squeaking by within reach so I went for it
17:06.24*** join/#maemo mece (n=mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi)
17:06.27Arkenoiactually i never paid more than $600 for a computer, though
17:06.29dmj726I went for it considering how much we're saving switching to tmobile with unsubsidized phones
17:06.50ccookefor my wife's, I'm effectively paying about £5 a month more than I did for her last phone, and the n900 was free on that
17:07.03lucentoh, heh, tmobile... they robo dialed me yesterday at 7am
17:07.10lucentI was pissed
17:07.14corecodehaha
17:07.39corecodecronjob setting phone ringer to silent until 10am?
17:07.53lucenthow to do that?
17:08.06lucentwould really like to.... considering I cannot set a ringtone-per-contact
17:08.07dmj726Me getting one droid is more expensive than my family getting 2 n900s
17:08.09corecodedunno, but should work
17:08.24corecodeshould as in "would be good if it did"
17:08.36corecodehm $550?
17:09.06corecodeno, $530?  why didn't i see that.  oh well, $550 is okay as well
17:09.12corecodeat newegg
17:09.21lucentcorecode: it was amazon, and only for a few hours
17:09.27corecodeah i see
17:09.54lucentI had my order with newegg, saw $529.99 at amazon and switched my preorder to amazon without hesitation
17:09.55corecodemy gf is coming back from the states, so she'll take it with her
17:10.10corecodeso timely delivery is important
17:10.20woglindere
17:10.31woglindeeven 500 I would not pay
17:10.40woglindeand I fine with prepaid
17:10.50woglindeso I dont need a contract over 24 months
17:11.04corecodethen you don't get a n900 i guess, or?
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17:11.26woglindeI have one from work
17:11.28woglinde*g*
17:11.35woglindebut right its not mine
17:12.10woglindebut I can use my prepaid card with it
17:12.13lucentI like to check my web browser based games when I'm on the bus to/from  home and the ski resort, then directly to work
17:12.29woglindelucent *g*
17:12.35woglindethe bus has wifi?
17:12.51lucentno, but I have decent EDGE roaming along the way
17:13.05lucentif you can call it decent, it works for what I am using it for
17:13.28lucentthis saves me like 2 hours of sitting at home checking web browser games, every day
17:13.37lucentmy time is definitely worth $500
17:14.51woglindelucent I didn talked about the worth
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17:15.39lucentoh, I did not understand your meaning
17:16.08woglindeno prob
17:16.11lucentyou are saying, there was no need to pay 500, because you got your phone paid for by the business?
17:16.24woglindeno
17:16.29mecehow's the N900 for playing Travian? I (Luckily) don't play anymore, but I sure would have loved one when I did.
17:16.35ccookeleon-: ah, now I'm not on the phone, I can see the hwid you mentioned
17:16.36woglindeI have it to develop some stuff
17:16.46woglindeand my colleague maybee need it too
17:17.13lucentmece: I don't know about Travian, the web based games that I am playing now are "Tribalwars" and "Urban Dead", neither requires Flash
17:17.38ccookeleon-: you can get that with 'cat /proc/component_version'
17:17.39leon-ccooke: :)
17:17.45leon-ok, thanks
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17:18.00ccookeleon-: the hw-build field there appears to be the same
17:18.15corecodehow is the voip situation on maemo?
17:18.33ccookecorecode: skype works. SIP works.
17:18.35KamuiWrkwow, almost missed out on the Nokia 50$ visa card rebate
17:18.38TomaszDalright, I got the ball rolling on wesnoth
17:18.49corecodecute
17:18.53ccookePeople seem to say that google talk works, but I'm not in the US so I couldn't say.
17:18.54woglindeTomaszD with gles?
17:19.02lucentKamuiWrk: Ovi Store isn't available for N900, I included a letter with my submission asking them to please honor it anyways
17:19.08ccookebut both skype and SIP are working perfectly on mine...
17:19.11TomaszDwoglinde, gles? this is an sdl game
17:19.30corecodeccooke: sip is integrated like it is for the e51?
17:19.37KamuiWrklucent, I noticed, but on the rebate I have it clearly says nokia N900
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17:19.43ccookecorecode: more integrated, I think
17:19.44RST38hTomaszD: any hope of getting it into a repo?
17:19.51woglindetomaszd hm so they are using gl indirectly
17:19.53corecodeccooke: excellent!
17:19.53KamuiWrklucent, they better honor it :)
17:19.59woglindebut you are right
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17:20.12woglinderemebering of the wesnoth stuff at oe
17:20.13corecodewhat about jabber?
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17:20.25ccookecorecode: all voip services use the same dialler, contacts and call list as the cellular calls.
17:20.32goodwilldoes maemo5 have a less utility in any pf the packages?
17:20.35TomaszDRST38h, I have to figure out this corporate interest conflict first. I need the sdl mixer to support ogg. The default mixer package does not and is maintained by Nokia. Uploading a package that superseds it with ogg support would be a dick move
17:20.42goodwillI am not a fan of more
17:20.56ccookecorecode: jabber's supported out of the box for IM, and uses the same contacts as the voip and SMS - the same app does IM and SMS.
17:21.27woglindeTomaszD urgs yes
17:21.28eijkHi! Can anybody give me a hint where the definition of the symbol selector table (invoked with Fn+Ctrl) is?
17:21.32corecodeccooke: that's cool
17:21.34woglindepoor nokia guys
17:21.37woglindedont like ogg
17:21.37jebba1TomaszD: nothing in extras can replace a core package. that's the roolz.
17:21.45corecodeccooke: so i need to work on migrating all my chat contacts to jabber
17:21.54TomaszDjebba1, I'll try working around this
17:21.55woglindehi jebba
17:22.00corecodeccooke: i suppose that app is not opensource
17:22.01TomaszDbut I don't promise anything
17:22.03woglindejebba *g* dont worked for debconf
17:22.08jebba1https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=176
17:22.09povbot`Bug 176: Ogg Vorbis support out of the box
17:22.10jebba1hhaha
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17:22.32ccookecorecode: there's a plugin for almost every IM app you like - all using the same address book and IM interface.
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17:22.36jebba1TomaszD: perhaps could be broken out into separate package. Or a separate repo along the lines of http://rpmfusion.org could be created.
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17:23.09jebba1it boggles the mind that they wont support ogg.  I can sorta understand mp3, but ogg? wtf is the downside?
17:23.12corecodeccooke: well i'm still trying to settle on how i keep chat logs
17:23.15TomaszDjebba1, I don't want a separate package. I'd rather distribute the mixer binary with the game and make the game link against that specific one
17:23.19woglindeTomaszD hm possible could be to rename the package and install the libs in seperate dir
17:23.35woglindeTomaszD hm or link staticl
17:23.47corecodeccooke: if i have everything through jabber, i can anyways use jabber clients on pc and have all run though the same infrastructure
17:23.47redeemanjebba1: nokia has previously talked about how ogg(specifically theora) is something they won't support, and don't encourage people to use
17:23.48woglindefor sdl-mixer
17:24.03ccookecorecode: My n900, for instance, is connected to a SIP account, skype, gtalk, a second jabber server, aol, icq and yahoo.
17:24.15ccooke(I'm told msn support works, too, but have heard it's not quite as stable)
17:24.37*** join/#maemo Mousey (n=wtfisme@sea02-v600-nat.marchex.com)
17:24.50corecodeokay
17:25.13jebbaredeeman: ya, and that is mind boggling  ;)   Should support wikipedia audio, for instance.
17:25.33redeemanthe people responsible for that at nokia are obviously braindead
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17:26.06woglinderedeeman yes
17:26.17Stskeepsjebba: nokia sponsored kulve getting a n900 to make ogg-support package though
17:26.17simula_is wikipedia audio ogg format?
17:26.26corecodehuh?  no ogg support?
17:26.38woglindeStskeeps hm than fix sdl-mixer
17:26.42simula_there is ogg support, but in one of the other repos :)
17:26.47woglindeStskeeps can you do it?
17:26.59Stskeepswoglinde: the problem is that SDL isn't exactly modular it looks like
17:27.05mececorecode, well you can just install it from the repo. It's just not installed when you get the device.
17:27.29corecodeok, still...
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17:28.56thauta
17:28.59Stskeepsi still don't understand how people who claim to love freedom wants to push ogg on nokia though. it boggles my mind how freedom can turn into "ship our codec or else", where freedom should mean that nokia is free to not ship ogg
17:29.17woglindeStskeeps eh we want wesnoth
17:29.23woglindegive us this freedom
17:29.31RST38hAFAIK Ogg isn't even free
17:29.32Stskeepswoglinde: you're more than free to dpkg -i a replacement :P
17:29.51woglindeRST38h not?
17:30.02RST38hGentlemen, if you are using XChat on your N900s and have not voted yet, please do vote here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/xchat/2.8.6-maemo14/
17:30.32woglindeRST38h you want the carma for next device?
17:30.44RST38hwoglinde: owned by some company, may infringe on patents from other companies
17:30.49*** join/#maemo BBNS_ (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
17:30.50RST38hwoglinde: But of coooourse
17:30.58tybolltRST38h: ugh - OGG isn't free? :-S
17:31.06tybolltis confused now
17:31.09derfRST38h: Every piece of software in existence may infringe on patents from some other company.
17:31.13RST38htybollt: Let me google for details, a moment
17:31.21RST38hderf: there are some specific concerns about ogg
17:31.22tybolltRST38h: cool, thanks
17:31.31lucentI read through the ogg-on-nokia bug, it's kind of wasting the Nokia engineer's time isn't it?
17:31.31simula_thought that was the whole point of ogg
17:31.32Stskeepsderf: at least we know with the older codecs that they are patent encumbered and you can fix it for a price
17:31.35derfRST38h: Then please be specific.
17:31.40woglindein matters only where patents are holded
17:31.41hrwhi
17:31.43tybolltsimula_: exactly... so did I :S
17:31.43derfStskeeps: That's not tru.e
17:31.45woglindeor was giveb
17:31.47derf*true
17:31.47eijkYes, please look up the details, otherwise, this sounds like FUD to me...
17:31.48woglindears given
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17:31.57Stskeepsgets the popcorn
17:32.00derfYou know of _some_ patents for the codec.
17:32.09tybolltStskeeps: :-P
17:32.14derfThe MPEG-LA by no means guarantees that they license all the required patents.
17:32.27derfIn fact they specifically disclaim doing so.
17:32.51derfThat's why you see things like MS getting sued for shipping MP3.
17:33.27woglindeMPEG-LA license are funny anyway
17:33.31dmj726Ya know, somebody should patent the compound word
17:33.32jebbaStskeeps: freedom is setting up our own repos to replace the crappy parts that nokia ships and won't allow to be improved  :)
17:33.36*** join/#maemo ml-N900 (n=wat@166.191.65.46)
17:33.44dmj726To promote innovation in spoken language
17:33.51Stskeepsjebba: i'd say we have that :P
17:34.07woglindefor devices you are royaltiee free if you dont sell more than 100k copies a year
17:34.17lucentI'm pretty sure that the issue is Nokia's market position does not see a clear and obvious benefit over their competitor's products to include OggVorbis / OggFLAC by default
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17:34.23jebbaStskeeps: exactly. There isn't a unified "free" repo yet, but i imagine that is coming soon enough.
17:34.31lucentit has very little to do with licensing
17:34.44jebbalucent: ya, except that it is the most voted for bug in bugzilla...
17:34.51jebbaso the market is definitely trying to tell them something
17:34.54tybolltin that respect - granted you can just mod your sources.lis - n900 is pretty damn open compared to the godphone and the robots
17:35.03lucentjebba: the bugzilla is not the market
17:35.25jebbaRST38h: Woo hoo! I got to be 10th karma voter for xchat. Well, assuming the fkn thing doesn't just spin for the next day.
17:35.31Stskeepsalso, there's ogg-support you can add with a install
17:35.33Stskeepswhat's the harm?
17:35.33RST38hderf: here: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=13531
17:35.33Stskeeps:P
17:35.50lucentStskeeps: battery life suffers greatly
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17:35.57Stskeepslucent: actually no
17:35.59jebbaStskeeps: the harm is in cases like TomaszD points out: no wesnoth or whatever.
17:36.00Stskeepslucent: hang on
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17:36.14Stskeepsjebba: we had wesnoth on diablo just fine
17:36.16Stskeepsafaik
17:36.18RST38hjebba: it still requires 10 days period before being promoted
17:36.22Stskeepslook for a solution there
17:36.34jebbalucent: there were tests about battery. I think in the bug report linked above.
17:36.34tybolltno harm really, more of a crude awakening... I was certain ogg and flac were entirely free and unencumbered by those silly patents
17:36.52lucent"free" is not the issue here
17:37.01jebbatybollt: basically they are as free of patents as it comes in anything.  Hitting spacebar is probably "patented" too.
17:37.13Stskeepshttp://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2009/11/07/n900-battery-duration-ogg-vs-mp3/
17:37.28lucentyou want something out-of-the-box on a device that is being marketed to sell against competitor products that do not have these features desired
17:37.41SpeedEvilBelieved to be patent free isn't quite the same as obviously being patented.
17:37.42RST38htybollt: people have patented so much different generic stuff nowadays, that it is almost impossible
17:37.43lucentwhat's the use to spend time  on implementing them for the first gen product?
17:38.18RST38hlucent: The point here is that very few users actually want ogg
17:38.35lucent:)
17:38.35RST38hlucent: But these few are very, VERY vocal
17:38.47RST38hMore or less same as with MMS
17:38.49tybolltRST38h: so what's the beef here?
17:39.02ali1234and AT&T 3G support too
17:39.07lucentI can name products that include OggVorbis/FLAC support, but they are not cellular devices
17:39.21lucentSanDisk Sansa Fuze is one such product
17:39.24RST38htybollt: The guys in that forum thread discuss how ogg uses MDCT encoding, which is apparently patented
17:39.33StskeepsRST38h: ogg out of the box, that is
17:39.44RST38hStskeeps: yea
17:39.57Stskeepsi love the freedom that we can add support without issue. that's sufficient for me.
17:40.01RST38hStskeeps: But not out of the box either. For example, I still have no use for ogg
17:40.10goodwillah ... I found less
17:40.20jebbaRST38h: ya, very few users "want ogg", in Nokia: "Dear user, do you want OGG support?"  User: "No".  But if it's phrased like, Nokia: "Dear user, would you like wikipedia audio support?"  User: "Yes, please".   As one example.
17:40.20tybolltRST38h: ugh :S
17:40.43lucentRST38h: why do you keep saying ogg, do you mean ogg? do you mean one of the codecs like FLAC or Vorbis or Speex.... ?
17:41.02tybolltogg is the container right
17:41.33jebbatybollt: i think we're sorta talking loosely here about ogg*  = flac, vorbis, speex.
17:41.41tybolltanyway what I mean is ogg/vorbis, ogg/flac as I wrote
17:41.49RST38hlucent: I mean both Ogg vorbis and Ogg <whatever video thing they have>
17:41.59jebbatheora/matroska.
17:42.04RST38hjebba: In my case, the answer will be WHAT?
17:42.13RST38hWhat wikipedia audio? Who cares?
17:42.33RST38hlucent: My personal experience with vorbis and theora (matroska too btw) has been horrible
17:42.43jebbaUh, wikipedia is like the 10th biggest website in the world, and their default audio format is ogg. Lots of pages (e.g. in wikitionary etc) are using ogg more and more.
17:42.49tybolltWell
17:42.59RST38hlucent: Stuttering, no rewind/forward, unsynced subtitles, crashing players, hanging players
17:43.04tybolltYou guys may not remember
17:43.08tybolltbut a few years back
17:43.13tybolltwhen mp3 was the new hot hing
17:43.14jebbaRST38h: i have been using ogg theora video with my N900 fine.
17:43.19RST38hjebba: "Ah, fuck that..."
17:43.20jebbalooks *really* good actually.
17:43.29tru_anyone used a a2dp with the n900?
17:43.36RST38hjebba: (that was about 10th site in the world of course)
17:43.48lucenttybollt: I do remember, in fact have one of those Expanium CD-MP3 players ;P
17:43.49jebbaRST38h: ya, but its like a no brainer easy to include. Anyway, we'll have a decent repo to replace this stuff within the next 3-4 months i would assume.
17:43.55tybolltthe assholes (pardon my french)  over at franuhofer institute threatened to sue EVERYBODY for using mp3 which was theirs and theirs only.
17:44.03tybolltfraunhofer*
17:44.08RST38hjebba: Assume. But I would suggest against holding your breath
17:44.14*** join/#maemo swc|666 (n=infidel2@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821)
17:44.30jebbaoh, i wont hold my breath. I just hope someone else does it  ;)
17:45.52*** join/#maemo Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun)
17:46.22TomaszDso guys, what should I do with the sdl mixer ogg thing, I'm not experienced enough with this
17:46.43jebbaTomaszD: Stskeeps said it was in diablo, perhaps check how it was done there.
17:47.39TomaszDjebba, there's a separate package that conflicts with the one in the sdk, and doesn't even work, terribly ugly
17:47.52jebbaTomaszD: pastebin it.
17:48.08timeless_mbpsighs
17:48.34timeless_mbpjebba: so... addressbook export is annoying
17:48.44TomaszDsomeone uploaded http://maemo.org/packages/view/libsdl-mixeroggwav1.2-dev
17:48.50TomaszDthis doesn't work, tried
17:49.00woglindelol
17:49.03woglindejebba?
17:49.20RST38htomaszd: how about downloading its source and looking at it?
17:49.23woglindeslow slow maemo.org
17:49.34RST38hfrankly can't quite understand why ogg requires a separate mixer
17:49.54woglindeits sdl
17:49.57woglindemixer
17:50.05TomaszDRST38h, I don't care about the source, I'm already compiling wesnoth with ogg support here, I've rolled my own sdl mixer with ogg support that actually works
17:50.06woglindeyou can compile it against different sound stuff
17:50.14TomaszDI don't want to make it conflict with the standard package
17:50.20TomaszDthat's just retarded to do
17:50.33RST38hTomaszd: Ah :)
17:50.48timeless_mbpwoglinde: and you can't just configure it to support whatever the system has?
17:50.52timeless_mbpyah static compilation
17:51.14woglindetimeless_mbp alreay mentioned it
17:51.25TomaszDtimeless_mbp, a topic I know nothing about, that's why I need help, I see some linker commands here in the configure --help text
17:51.28woglindeand TomaszD has it working so topic is theough
17:51.36woglindethrough
17:51.51woglindeokay
17:51.53woglindetill later
17:52.06woglindeI hope I will be get nx stuff working
17:52.07TomaszDbut I'd first have to roll a separate working mixer package with ogg support that would work side by side with the crippled one from the sdk
17:52.10woglindethis evening
17:52.36RST38hArkenoi: Next gadget: http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/light-blue-optics-unveils-light-touch-a-10-inch-touchscreen-pic/
17:52.38RST38h;)
17:53.24samueldrRST38h: woah nice
17:53.43lucentRST38h: based on the showwx from microvision?
17:53.49lucentI got to beta test a showwx
17:54.00lucentit's nice, this concept would work great at short throw distances
17:54.10*** join/#maemo pcfe (n=pcfe@a83-245-163-38.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
17:54.15samueldrI can see so many hacking possibilities
17:54.17TomaszDor ask everyone to put "either/or" deps for every package that uses the mixer...
17:54.31Arkenoifunny thing, looks quite bulky on the photo though
17:54.35lucentlarger throw distances would need a big increase in power, more than can be safetly marketed for a portable consumer device
17:55.33lucentRST38h: best advantage of scanning laser display is the displayed image is always in focus
17:56.07ali1234TomaszD: can't you just set a "provides" tag or whatever it's called
17:56.17SpeedEvilLasers do not have zero beamwidth.
17:56.26RST38hlucent: =))
17:56.35SpeedEvilA 5mm beam diffracts at a minimum of 0.5 milliradians or so.
17:56.36RST38hlucent: What is the optimal usable distance for showwx?
17:56.49SpeedEvilnarrower beams diffract lots more.
17:57.12homeasvsX-Fade, so, it looks like I can now run scratchbox in arm with that new qemu and succesfully build erlang stuff
17:57.28homeasvsX-Fade, I'll let you know if I end up having complete packages built with this
17:57.34lucentRST38h: well, in *total* darkeness, I set up a rear projection display using a cotton shower curtain at about 7ft throw, and the projected image was... let me measure hang on
17:57.37homeasvsX-Fade, if this works, how do we get it on the builders ?
17:57.56jebbawoglinde: wogline?
17:57.58RST38hlucent: That curtain still got burn marks? ;)
17:58.14lucentRST38h: 80" diagonal
17:58.20RST38hWhoah
17:58.26RST38hwanna wanna wanna
17:58.29lucentit wasn't terribly bright
17:58.42RST38hbut it is ok, at 80" from such a little thing...
17:58.55RST38hthrough a layer of cotton too
17:58.56lucentyep! its size is the huge win for a small studio apartment like mine
17:59.15lucentplus I didn't even bother to smooth out the curtain much
17:59.27jebbahomeasvs: ah! erlang in the builder! oh noes!  ;)
17:59.44*** join/#maemo fnordianslipeee (n=darren@94-30-69-47.xdsl.murphx.net)
17:59.51lucentI wish that I'd had a N900 to play with when I beta'd the showwx
17:59.55homeasvsjebba, well, I meant the new qemu that can build erlang :)
17:59.58jebbahomeasvs: if you patched up qemu to do it, check the qemu package on maemo.gitorious.org somewhere
18:00.15RST38hlucent: Actually, I tried N900 playing movies on a 32" LCD flat screen
18:00.29lucentRST38h: output is okay?
18:00.30homeasvsjebba, no, I just built that gitorious version to see if it worked
18:00.33homeasvsjebba, and it does
18:00.37RST38hlucent: Does not look very good (both PC and BBK DVD player were much better)
18:00.39jebbahomeasvs:  git://gitorious.org/qemu-maemo/qemu-maemo.git
18:00.41jebbaah ok
18:00.44RST38hlucent: But watchable still
18:00.47homeasvsjebba, so my question is, what needs to happen to replace the builder's version with this new one
18:00.53timeless_mbpandre__: does 7397 have anything to do w/ browser?
18:01.02jebbaheh. homeasvs suggest taking that to maemo-devel
18:01.17jebbamy guess that it won't happen until the infamous "server move" is complete
18:01.18*** join/#maemo fnordian900 (n=user@94-30-69-47.xdsl.murphx.net)
18:01.25lucentRST38h: oh okay, what is the breakout cable, I see one red two yellow
18:01.30RST38hlucent: I suspect it will look better on a projector, LCD showed too many signal artefacts
18:01.39dmj726It doesn't look as good as a dvd (might also be the quality of videos), but it's very handy to connect it to a tv
18:01.55RST38hlucent: video/right/left
18:02.03andre__timeless_mbp, feel free to move it to Multimedia/GStreamer
18:02.22lucentRST38h: right you are, I have one of those fancy LED Pharox 60W bulbs that is warm white, makes every white colour yellow :P
18:02.22RST38hlucent: One interesting thing is that N900 feels much slower on the big screen than on its own screen
18:02.35timeless_mbpandre__: done
18:02.47*** join/#maemo tabMonkey_away (n=tabMonke@94-192-14-226.zone6.bethere.co.uk)
18:02.53dmj726RST38h: I think it might be slower
18:03.04timeless_mbpandre__: can i change the description of the mail product to mention the classification for sync too?
18:03.10RST38hdmj726: What is it doing? Pushing extra pixels to a secondary screen buffer?
18:03.16SpeedEvillucent: are those the ones witrh no blue output at all?
18:03.22RST38hOr using memory bandwidth for a TV encoder?
18:03.36dmj726I know it's not outputing the exact same pixels
18:03.46TomaszDali1234, that's actually a good idea man
18:03.46RST38hyea, I have heard that a few times
18:03.53dmj726Some apps (kmplayer) output different things to eachs creen
18:03.55lucentSpeedEvil: I don't know about blue. the Pharox 60W would be something I'd replace an incadescant 40w bulb with
18:04.01andre__timeless_mbp, sure
18:04.02fiferboyTomaszD: Yeah SDL mixer is another problem :)
18:04.21TomaszDfiferboy, how about a separate package that Provides the standard SDK one
18:04.37RST38hhas got a 35W fluorescent
18:04.37TomaszDwill that tag be respected?
18:04.49timeless_mbpdone, thanks
18:04.58fiferboyTomaszD: That is what Glenn did for the OS2008 build, he called it libsdlmixer_onlyoggandwav, or something
18:05.13RST38hWhich is pretty nice, but it definitely is not bright enough to justify its "like 120W" moniker and also looks like an alien anal probe
18:05.29TomaszDfiferboy, thanks, I'll try that, he already provided a package for fremantle, but it doesn't work at all, I'll roll my own this evening
18:05.46fiferboyTomaszD: I never had luck with his package either
18:05.47lucentRST38h: noted.
18:05.58TomaszDbbl food
18:06.03fiferboyTomaszD: It might be he changed something other than just the depend
18:07.06lucentCFLs end up in the wastebin at every workplace I've been to
18:07.13lucentit's a big heavy metals hazard
18:07.22RST38hOh well
18:07.45RST38hkinda suspect that CFLs are on the low end of the hazard range where he lives
18:07.56*** join/#maemo andrei1089 (n=andrei10@81.18.92.10)
18:07.58lucentRST38h: oh, I did not mention, I work in a movie theater
18:07.58jebbaanyone using sbdmock or similar autobuilders? I'm going to set up sbdmock unless there is something better.
18:08.06lucentI tried the show wx on a cinema screen :P
18:08.07jebbagoes to read old thread started on this hehe
18:08.23RST38hlucent: <hate> + <envy>
18:08.52lucentthe throw is about perfect, but it's not bright enough and our emergency exit sign's overcast overpowers it
18:09.22RST38hheh
18:09.36lucentsitting in the front row you can make a nice bright image about 2" diagonal
18:10.14lucentcinema film projector bulbs are about 2000W
18:10.39lucentit's not surprising that the brightness isn't comparable
18:11.07RST38hhas seen laser projectors in a few places
18:11.17RST38hBaltimore Aquarium uses them, for one
18:11.23lucentfull colour?
18:11.26RST38hThey are pretty impressive
18:11.41RST38hlucent: Only seend full color here, in the Darwin Museum
18:11.49lucentokay
18:11.50*** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@ANantes-252-1-39-32.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr)
18:12.00RST38hlucent: But I do not think it had enough resolution
18:12.26lucentthe Microvision tech is great, it will end up in a Nokia product eventually
18:12.27Arkenoias my notebook died i watch movies alot with n900
18:12.30lucentthat is my guess
18:12.52Arkenoiwith 3m mpro120 pocket projector
18:12.53lucentArkenoi: which media player is your preference
18:13.02Arkenoinative one
18:13.18Arkenoimplayer is too slow
18:13.35dnaumovis anyone here using Handbrake to transcode videos to be viewed on their N900? is it possible to transcode the video but do a direct steam copy of the audio track from source to destination? its really silly to re-encode an already lossy 128-192kbps audio again into AAC, reducing the quality even further...
18:14.08Arkenoimencoder -ac copy
18:14.17*** join/#maemo alehorst (n=alehorst@201.22.16.96.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br)
18:14.18dmj726I don't bother to transcode anything to use on the n900
18:14.22dmj726It's not necessary
18:14.33Arkenoime neither, except it is HD
18:14.42dnaumovdmj726: good luck watching 1080p...
18:14.50dmj726If it's 1080p then yeah
18:14.58jebbaanyone know if mplayer is built with N900/ARM optimizations?
18:15.01jebbaneon etc
18:17.02lucentdnaumov: I thought you could do it with Handbrake, but I haven't used Handbrake recently so I can't verify that
18:17.10lucentmore of a question for Handbrake devs
18:17.35Gadgetoid_iMacdnaumov: you can pass-through the audio in Handbrake
18:22.32|RI'm wondering if google will announce anything more than the Nexus One in the next few minutes...
18:23.33dmj726they're announcing that today?
18:24.53*** join/#maemo n6pfk (n=n6pfk__@pool-173-53-57-150.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net)
18:24.59|Rrightn ow
18:25.02|Rright now
18:25.07|Rhttp://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/01/google-android-event-liveblog.ars
18:25.12Gadgetoid_iMacNexus One = Fail
18:25.18RST38hwhy?
18:25.25Gadgetoid_iMacIt fixes all the bad points in the Droid, but adopts none of the good points...
18:25.28|Ryeah, i'm not getting it either
18:25.30RST38hGooglers are absolutely awed by it
18:25.36Gadgetoid_iMacGooglers are idiots
18:25.44RST38hNot the ones I know
18:25.57Gadgetoid_iMacThey wouldn't know a smartphone if you rammed one up each nostril and set them to vibrate
18:26.08RST38hNexus has no real unified messaging though, so it is a no go
18:26.18hrwGadgetoid_iMac: I could say same thing about nokians
18:26.25Gadgetoid_iMacIt has no keyboard... how are you going to do any unified messaging on it!
18:26.34tigertkuriiri: got any luck with the access point stuff?
18:26.45Gadgetoid_iMachrw: You could, but to rise above that I would just like to say: HTC TyTN II FTW!
18:27.00hrwGadgetoid_iMac: tytn2? that crappy qvga brick?
18:27.13Gadgetoid_iMachrw: Blasthemy!!!
18:27.31Gadgetoid_iMac(it was a brick, though)
18:27.36dmj726eh, they can have their device
18:27.55dmj726I'm happy with mine.
18:28.32tybolltI can edit my sources.list... what can googlers do? Submit to google store?
18:29.20Gadgetoid_iMacI like Google store, it's better than the Apple app store in a few ways
18:29.20tybolltshrug - if godphone and robots want to drink the koolaid - by all means... I'm perfectly happy w/ my n900 =)
18:29.39Gadgetoid_iMacBut it's also packed full of total dross
18:30.28Gadgetoid_iMacI wonder if I should try and finish porting Rocks'n'Diamonds
18:30.58hrwtybollt: I would like to have sane dev environment in maemo5
18:31.07RST38hhrw: You should tel him the same about Applers! =)
18:31.08hrwwith current dev tools
18:31.22dmj726seems like it's just made to flash pretty colors
18:31.36dmj726also, why does it have 2 mics but only one camera?
18:31.38hrwRST38h: I used iphones for <30 minutes since they appeared on market
18:31.47hrwRST38h: so I prefer to not comment
18:32.08RST38hhrw: You mean, you have already been contaminated? =)
18:32.26hrwque?
18:32.43RST38hBy the apple virus!
18:33.29dmj726don't worry, the apple virus can be cured by a good dose of debian
18:33.42Gadgetoid_iMacThe iPhone is an undeniably great device, but it's just a trumped up featurephone to any self respecting geek
18:33.48SpeedEvildmj726: also by boiling for 5 minutes, and serving with pork.
18:34.21dmj726hmm...animated wallpaper
18:34.24hrwRST38h: from apple products I used: MacOS 7.1/7.5.5/7.6.1 in Shapeshifter emulator (on Amiga), LC 475 (for fun),  powerbook 180c (we tried to hack it a bit), powermac g5 (as web machine at friend home), iphone 2g/3g/3gs for <half hour in total
18:34.26jebbai have an iphone sitting here. pretty annoying device actually. Need a special stupid tool to even get the SIM out.
18:34.40SpeedEviljebba: it's called an axe.
18:34.43RST38hfound today that gebrick has been contaminated and is totally lost to us
18:34.54dmj726;anybody try this with maemo?
18:34.58RST38hhrw: Ah, you had an Amiga?
18:35.04hrwRST38h: yes
18:35.21*** join/#maemo Gadgetoid_mbp (n=phil@cpc3-nrwh9-2-0-cust561.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com)
18:35.24Arkenoiwishes it to be the way to ignore applications in sotware catalog forever (or, at least, unltil i un-ignore it). too many *-zhhk stuff to scroll through
18:35.29tybolltdmj726: hmm animgif? mjpeg?
18:35.43dmj726would that work on n900 wallpaper?
18:35.44hrwRST38h: A600 bought in 1995, then added HDD, 2MB ram, switched to A1200, ended with A1200 040/40 2+64MB ram, 17GB hdd, vga mono
18:35.48RST38hArkenoi: which section did that stuff got to?
18:36.05RST38hhrw: I bought a used A2000 in the US, then got a similarly used A3000
18:36.17*** join/#maemo Gadgetoid_mbp (n=phil@cpc3-nrwh9-2-0-cust561.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com)
18:36.25hrwa3000 was best model released
18:36.25RST38hthe multiple screens thing felt absolutely amazing at the time
18:36.29Arkenoiextras devel
18:36.34hrwa3000+ was greatest ever built
18:36.44RST38hArkenoi: no, which section inside extras-devel?
18:37.09RST38hhrw: well mine was kinda slow, but worked
18:37.48RST38heven mounted his university account as a disk. Over a modem. Using some really ugly kludge.
18:37.50hrwRST38h: default a3000 is slow like hell - you need good cpu card - cyberstorm for example
18:38.03RST38hdidn't have money for a card
18:38.18Arkenoisystem
18:38.23tybolltamiga was good for its time but the lack of mmu was ... well
18:38.34RST38hah, ok, so the chinese guy littered all over system
18:38.44RST38hwondered where the crap went
18:38.45*** join/#maemo LuciusMare (n=LuciusMa@187.110.broadband4.iol.cz)
18:38.46LuciusMareomg
18:38.57LuciusMarehow to record videos on fremantle?
18:39.03lbtStskeeps: ping
18:39.09hrwrun camera tool, switch to video
18:39.13RST38htybollt: thanks to lack of mmu amiga had shorter context switch time than Sun
18:39.20LuciusMarehrw: where? any picture?
18:39.22tybolltLuciusMare: open the cam door on your mobile and voila record
18:39.23SpeedEvilLuciusMare: opwn rhwe shutter, select 'A' - selectr videwo
18:39.25LuciusMarei didnt find the icon
18:39.31LuciusMarehm
18:39.39SpeedEvilAnd it should be _way_ more obvious trhan that
18:39.53LuciusMareow
18:39.53hrwLuciusMare: camera app suxx
18:39.55*** join/#maemo kalikianatoli (n=kalikian@xfce/goodies-developer/kalikiana)
18:39.56tybolltRST: Bleeding fast... sure.
18:40.02RST38hIt also had an OS architecture that some people are still striving to achieve nowadays
18:40.03LuciusMareexactly, SpeedEvil.
18:40.15RST38h(penguins included)
18:40.30LuciusMarethank you.
18:40.43tybolltRST38h: the die hard miggy people still claim lack of mmu produced better programmers since if you fucked up you'd die harder... I dunno that's a religious war I suppose ;)
18:41.36hrwRST38h: Sun also used m68k at that time
18:41.53hrwRST38h: remember then Sun workstations were used to develop AmigaOS 0.x
18:42.14ArkenoigTranslate is handy, but it does not remember language preferences. I doubt many of us need translation to and from afrikaans
18:42.15dmj726Sounds like the nexus phone has good voice command abilities
18:42.40jebbaArkenoi: there is qstardict now  :)
18:42.44hrwdmj726: probably even nokia 6310i had better voice command abilities then n900
18:42.59dmj726I don't really care about voice that much
18:43.12leon-anybody know how to reflash the device back to sales release firmware if for some reason you would have ended up with something else on your device? :)
18:43.13dmj726My 5 year old dumb phone had a bit of voice stuff.
18:43.17*** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
18:43.19dmj726which I despised
18:43.53RST38hhrw: Yes, but the context switch time was compared with a SPARC running SunOS 4.3
18:44.17hrwleon-: wiki.maemo.org has info
18:44.21RST38htybollt: naaah, it just made programs crash and take whole system with them
18:44.26dmj726now give me a phone that lets me subvocalize my phone calls, and I'll be impressed
18:44.29|Rwell, the nexus gets full voice support everywhere it seems
18:44.43leon-hrw, many thanks...
18:44.43jebbahey, can i get some testing/karma for this?  http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/burgerspace/1.8.3-18/   I friend in USA wants it, but i dont even dare suggest he enable extras-testing  ;)
18:44.45RST38htybollt: but it was way less frequent than some people pictured it to be
18:45.12RST38hjebba: -testing is relatively safe to enable
18:45.28RST38h-devel I would not
18:45.31dmj726The full voice support is interesting, but I wouldn't end up using it much
18:45.32hrwleon-: you jsut need firmware image and flasher-3.5 tool. if you are using windows then you can also try NSU but I do not know does it supports n900
18:45.46jebbaheh. RST38h, ya, but there's some users that you *know* you dont even want to suggest that...
18:45.47*** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@stgt-5f73824a.pool.mediaWays.net)
18:45.53RST38hoh
18:45.54*** join/#maemo davyg (n=davyg@dau94-9-88-178-191-172.fbx.proxad.net)
18:46.02RST38hwe call them the iphone users =)
18:46.03hrwbb in few
18:46.04*** join/#maemo u1106 (n=user@gprs-prointernet-ffc56a00-35.dhcp.inet.fi)
18:46.04jebbaplus is pretty innocuous package/game
18:46.06ali1234jebba: just have him install the dpkg directly then?
18:46.15jebbaRST38h: exactly. he's an i*/apple user...
18:46.19*** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@a88-112-120-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
18:46.34jebbaali1234: dude, i'm not even going to bother with command lline stuff with this user. trust me.
18:46.41jebbait'll take 8 hours.
18:46.44ali1234then make an .install
18:46.56jebbaor just get 4 karma points and it's in extras. done.
18:46.59leon-hrw, yes I have flashed the device like 100 times already but after flashing it the sim card is no longer usable
18:47.09jebbaand others can use it too....
18:47.36*** part/#maemo MSameer (n=M@a88-115-21-252.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
18:49.02jebbaanyone know a way to search pacakges by maintainer? e.g. what packages i've submitted and forgot abotu? hah
18:49.21*** join/#maemo Xisdibik (n=Xisdibik@206-169-98-162.static.twtelecom.net)
18:49.25*** join/#maemo lbt (n=david@Maemo/community/contributor/lbt)
18:49.39SpeedEvilIs there a simple dialog tool runnable from shell?
18:49.44SpeedEvilsomething like xdialog
18:49.50RST38hOk, reboot. Going to try making a keyboard layout switch applet
18:49.51leon-I even tried cold flashing but no use that one either..
18:50.07jebbaSpeedEvil: i thought i saw zenity somewhere
18:50.18jebbaya, it's in extras-*something
18:51.03SpeedEvilinteresting
18:51.05SpeedEvilthjanks!
18:51.08*** join/#maemo RevdKathy (n=RevdKath@5ad2ed06.bb.sky.com)
18:51.09SpeedEvilSounds interesting.
18:51.17dnaumovGadgetoid_iMac: I thought the pass-through was only for when the source was AC3?
18:51.24SpeedEvilI want to do 0th cut of some near-trivial apps
18:51.39*** join/#maemo _claesbas (n=cnorin@c83-248-209-44.bredband.comhem.se)
18:51.49SpeedEvilawk+shell+gnuplot can do lots
18:51.52Gadgetoid_iMacdnaumov: I'm sure you can pass-through any source, it would be silly not to be able to... I'd have to check
18:52.13SpeedEvilnotes bad typing is due to gloves.
18:52.19SpeedEvilSorry for any inconvenience.
18:53.27|RN900 has dual Mic right?
18:53.30hrwleon-: does sim work in other phone? if yes then report bug. if not then replace it
18:53.54SpeedEvil|R: don['t think so
18:54.02leon-hrw, it works
18:54.44matthew-|R: no
18:54.58|Ruhm ok, i thought i saw stereo recording somewhere
18:56.07Gadgetoid_iMacdnaumov: surely leaving the target audio settings the same as the source would imply a pass-through... AAC and DTS pass-through are explicit pass-through settings for the original tracks on DVDs
18:56.25*** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@a88-113-5-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
18:56.32jebbagah, builder down again
18:56.41jebbaor is that unmentionable now?
18:56.53jebbaFailed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/fremantle/tools/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz  504 Gateway Time-out [IP: 193.184.164.146 80]
18:57.13jebbajust when i thought it was safe to submit jobs again  ;)
18:57.55*** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=Slonopot@80.90.124.131)
19:01.07slonopotamusis it only me lacking scrollbar for userlist in fremantle xchat?
19:02.00*** join/#maemo LinuxCode (n=LinuxCod@fedora/LinuxCode)
19:05.50*** join/#maemo rdorsch (n=rd@p5B201EB9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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19:10.42wazd_e63Oh, nexus one will be released today?
19:10.59*** join/#maemo inz (i=inz@maemo-hackers.org)
19:11.31Pavlovit is out
19:11.36jebbahmm, how hackable nexus one?
19:11.45Pavlovhttp://google.com/phone
19:11.52jebbai see some google fones can use ofono.
19:12.13*** join/#maemo brambiALT (i=brambi@d54C18678.access.telenet.be)
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19:17.06Pavlovdunno, ill let you know how it is tomorrow
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19:18.20*** join/#maemo myosound (n=myosound@g2s.nthp.org)
19:18.25Sir_LancelotNow that Nexus is official, N900 has a long way to catch up, to compensate the hard work of having it inside my pocket :D
19:18.59Sir_Lancelotfunny, how much eye-candyness is appreciated ;)
19:19.01luke-jrSir_Lancelot: but does Nexus have a keyboard? :P
19:19.29corecodeRST38h: that ha forum thread does not conclusively inform whether vorbis is covered by patents or not
19:19.58Sir_Lancelotscrew the KB. If the digital KB is good, than it's no worse than a physical one
19:20.05jebbaany clue how many apps android has?
19:20.49zashbah, sandboxed pseudojava
19:21.24jebbaah, android "store" has 20,000 applications.  Hmm, wtf. That's more than debian. How can that be?
19:21.40dnaumovwhy would you want nexus one? ita droid that looks only slightly better than the original droid (which was ugly in both aesthetics and performance department)
19:21.46zashdoes it have over 9000 flashlight apps?
19:21.50ali1234jebba: debian doesn't have any where near as many fart apps
19:21.50jebbahaha
19:22.04jebbaya. Better than 100 apps in extras though  :(
19:22.13wazd_e63lancelot: believe me, no onscreen keyboard can deal with proper hardware
19:22.37wazd_e63Hardware ftw
19:22.51ali1234not only that but the nexus is HTC
19:22.52mavhcno multitouch, no point
19:23.02ali1234that means it will fall apart if you look at it funny
19:23.17RST38hmavhc: do not forget it must have capacitive screen, support mms, and itunes
19:23.26RST38hmavhc: Otherwise it is not worthy!
19:23.31Sir_Lancelotbut you have to agree with me, that N900 is far from being eye-candy
19:23.38Sir_Lancelotand there's a lack of apps
19:23.45ali1234not really
19:23.48Sir_Lancelotthere's no app for Facbeook, for example
19:24.04RST38hwhat is Facebook?
19:24.10Sir_Lancelotand the Twitter apps are kinda lame yet...
19:24.13ArkenoiSir_Lancelot, iir there is one?
19:24.27jebbato my newbie amigo from apple/iphone world that has n900 he thinks there's a lack of apps. I told him "oh just wait" weeks ago, and since then there's been like 15 new apps. Whoopie.
19:24.37*** join/#maemo Anaconda_ (i=anaconda@xen.ihme.org)
19:24.54ali1234i don't see why anyone would buy a n900 to use facebook and twitter
19:25.02moo-_-touch.facebook.com
19:25.02Arkenoii remember one of first things i deleted from my n900 was "facebook app" or "facebook app downloader", cannot remember exactly which one
19:25.05wazd_e63there is a website
19:25.05davygSir_Lancelot, never heard that debian has a lack of app
19:25.06moo-_-who needs an app...
19:25.16wazd_e63Why would you need an app
19:25.20jebbaali1234:  they don't buy it to use facebook and twitter. They buy it to do all sorts of stuff, and that's one of the things.
19:25.21RST38hjebba: But there were 1500 new apps at the apple appstore at the same time!
19:25.37jebbaexactly. Tons of stuff RST38h
19:25.55RST38hiPhone is superior! It's better!
19:25.55moo-_-jebba: most of apps are just rebranded websites
19:25.59moo-_-mobile internet is not about apps
19:26.04myosound1500 fart apps
19:26.05Sir_Lancelotso, if I understood correclty, there's no use for social network apps on N900, right?
19:26.26moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: what you could do with an app which you cannot do using a browser?
19:26.31wazd_e63rst38h, e63 ftw, shut up!)
19:26.35*** join/#maemo BBNS_ (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
19:26.35Arkenoiuses n900 with livejournal and linkedin all the time but never seen any need of "apps"
19:26.39jebbamoo-_-: perhaps, but theres also thousands of useful apps too.  By just dismissing it by saying "fart apps" and stuff you are just putting your head in the sand to the reality that android and iphone are *WAY* ahead of maemo in terms of applciations.
19:26.47moo-_-jebba: yeah I know
19:26.52moo-_-I am a mobile app developer myself
19:26.53*** join/#maemo DarwinSurvivor (n=DarwinSu@142.232.129.163)
19:26.56ali1234so what are these amazingly useful apps?
19:26.58moo-_-including iphone :)
19:26.59Sir_Lancelotbecause of the size of the screen, moo-_-
19:26.59Arkenoiactually syncing contacts with those might be handy, but i hardly see anything other an "application" may bring
19:27.09ifreqmakes new social app --> run facebook on fullscreen
19:27.10TomaszDfiferboy, when I'm running maemo-optify it complains Cannot chdir to debian/wesnoth-data
19:27.12ifreqwho wants to buy??
19:27.25jebbaali1234: well, there was one he was using to study biology. It had all the parts of the body, muscles, etc. he used for skool. Was very impressive little app.
19:27.33jebbalots of specialized things like that.
19:27.36ifreqArkenoi: hermes can do the synckin with twitter and facebook, its cool :)
19:27.39Sir_Lancelotof course the browser supports everything...the problem is that the webpage is optimized fpor bigger screens
19:27.47moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: touch.facebook.com
19:27.48Sir_LancelotIf I want to make a tweet
19:27.50Arkenoiifreq: i know, but i do not use either one ;-)
19:27.52moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: m.twitter.com
19:27.53Sir_LancelotI wan't it fat
19:27.58ifreqArkenoi: you won :)
19:27.59fiferboyTomaszD: I have no experience with optify, but don't you just specify it in a file in the debian directory?
19:28.25moo-_-and by the way, there is a twitter app nowadays :)
19:28.25jebbafiferboy:  just do  "echo auto > debian/optify"
19:28.30moo-_-or several of them
19:28.37jebbafiferboy: then you can run maemo-optify-deb on your completed debs
19:28.37RST38hBy the way...
19:28.46Sir_Lancelotso, in this case, what is the expectation for N900? what will be the "Wow" apps that will come up
19:28.48fiferboyjebba: Right, thanks
19:28.48moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: skype is integrated directly to your address book
19:28.49Sir_Lancelotin the future?
19:28.53moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: so no skype app needed
19:28.56RST38hIf N900 is so great, why there is no Heater App for N900 yet?!?
19:28.56TomaszDjebba, what about the autobuilder?
19:29.02moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: phone itself is the "skype"
19:29.26jebbafiferboy: you can also add  Build-Depends: maemo-optify     but that isnt necessary in the builder anymore.
19:29.30moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: also I think facebook will be integrated in the near future too
19:29.33KamuiWrkcrapola
19:29.34*** join/#maemo tabMonkey (n=tabMonke@94-192-14-226.zone6.bethere.co.uk)
19:29.35KamuiWrkI did it again
19:29.37KamuiWrkrootfs full
19:29.41myosoundfirefox and xterm are the wow apps for n900
19:29.46moo-_-there is also MSN integration, AOL, ICQ already. you name it
19:29.55fiferboyjebba: And the autobuilder picks up from the optify file as well?
19:29.56jebbaTomaszD: what about the autobuilder? I dont understand.  You just need to do "echo auto > debian/optify" for the builder to optify, if that's what you are asking.
19:30.02jebbafiferboy: yes, exactl.y
19:30.14fiferboyjebba: Thanks!
19:30.17jebbanp
19:31.09TomaszDjebba, you mean I should put a file optify in the debian folder, with auto as its content?
19:31.23Arkenoiso what about that fecesbook app shipped with my n900? was i hallucinating?
19:31.26Sir_LancelotWhat could be my expectation for N900? what will be the "Wow" apps that will come up
19:31.26KamuiWrkis /usr/share on the rootfs?
19:31.27Sir_Lancelotin the future?
19:31.30corecodecrayon physics!
19:31.31KamuiWrkIm thinking about relinking it
19:31.35corecodethat would be a cool app
19:31.39moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: firefox
19:31.40KamuiWrkseems to have about 125m on it
19:31.47moo-_-it syncs with your desktop browser
19:31.54woglindere
19:32.07Sir_LancelotArkenoi that is a widget...barely called an application
19:32.10RST38h"Whenever you want to go fanboy harassing, go after 2PM because if they don't have the charger with them, that device is like a brick in the water."
19:32.11jebbaTomaszD: exactly
19:32.17RST38hehehe
19:32.25TomaszDjebba, thanks, didn't know that. Is that documented somewhere?
19:32.31RST38hSir_Lancelot: What is facebook? Why do I need it?
19:32.32*** join/#maemo Rhoruns (i=Rhoruns@ip98-165-95-29.ph.ph.cox.net)
19:32.35jebbaKamuiWrk: be careful with relinking. There are some discsussions about it in talk.mo
19:32.36RST38hIs it some website?
19:32.37*** join/#maemo ml-mobile (n=wat@166.134.247.177)
19:32.43jebbaTomaszD: uh, ya probably somewhere heh.
19:32.52moo-_-RST38h: facebook is for people with facebook friends :)
19:33.03jebbaTomaszD: fiferboy  see:  http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Package_Building_HOWTO
19:33.17RST38hmoo: Are "facebook friends" the same happy people I sometimes see in SIMS screenshots?
19:33.31RST38hlike...virtual people?
19:33.33ml-mobile:( watchdog strikes again
19:33.55ali1234RST38h: no "facebook friends" are the people *outside* your basement
19:34.01TomaszDjebba, thanks
19:34.08jebbawould be nice if we could just shoot the watchdog in the head. Perhaps time to poke at that in the kernel.
19:34.22TomaszDjebba, thought about adding info about the maemo-specific fields in control?
19:34.30RST38hali1234: I do not have a basement.
19:34.40jebbaTomaszD: such as what?
19:34.41ali1234RST38h: virtual basement
19:34.56RST38hali1234: I do not have a virtual basement.
19:35.02TomaszDjebba, XB-Maemo-Display-Name, XB-Description, things like that
19:35.06jebbahahah. #1 iphone free app is kamasutra something  (me looking at his iphone for first time)
19:35.15KamuiWrkjebba, thanks for the advice, I guess Ill just run the optify script, just didn't want to wait 30 minutes for it to build a list of installed apps
19:35.18jebbaTomaszD: i think i have some of that in there, ya.
19:35.31jebbaKamuiWrk: np
19:35.50Arkenoiis there *working* barcode scanner?
19:36.02moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: there is no difference between skype callls and normal phone calls. there is no difference between skype chat and SMS messages. that's nifty.
19:36.06RST38hArkenoi: /msg lardman
19:36.08jebbaTomaszD: ah, ya, i see i dont have them in my wiki page. Need to update that for use with a GUI app.
19:36.12TomaszDjebba, no, you don't. May I add those?
19:36.18jebbaTomaszD: ya, go for it thx!
19:36.22TomaszDok
19:36.24Sir_Lancelotlet's see if I can make my self understand
19:36.30moo-_-by the way does someone have a script to turn skype on when you arrive to home wlan?
19:36.38Sir_Lancelotwhat I'm asking, is which are the objectivs for N900?
19:36.38*** join/#maemo crashanddie (n=slauwers@SecuraBit/listener/crashanddie)
19:36.45jebbaoh, there's a Dakar application for iphone. spongebob too heh.
19:36.48crashanddieyooooo bitches
19:37.01myosoundSir_Lancelot: I'd say n900 is the "debian in your pocket" hacker phone
19:37.04Sir_LancelotI know what the phone does...I have already for 1 month, and thanks to you guys, I've been loving it
19:37.09moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: good browser and very good surfing experience
19:37.35Sir_Lancelothowever, I'm distant enough to clearly identify the good and bad things about it
19:37.44villagerali1234: my accelerometer is busted again... did you want me to try stuff?
19:37.50ali1234villager: yes
19:37.55Sir_Lancelotand with soo many offers outside, I'm curious to know where N900 is going
19:38.05ali1234villager: hang on while i upload some shiz
19:38.06jebbaah, but i have to sign up to even install "free" applications.
19:38.27jebbaPLONK
19:38.28ArkenoiFatal error: Call to undefined method midcom_application::get_error_string() in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/org/maemo/brainstorm/handler/solution.php on line 1
19:38.33Sir_Lancelotif it's only web surfing...then It's good enough already. It would be a shame if that would be the only objective...
19:38.36moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: I think there is no third-party integration to contacts on other platforms
19:38.45*** join/#maemo DarwinSurvivor (n=DarwinSu@142.232.129.163)
19:38.56RST38himagine that, this whole monstrosity is written in php...
19:38.59jebbaArkenoi: where's that?
19:39.07jebbaah brainstorm
19:39.08Sir_Lancelotmaybe N900 is not the phone for me. That's what I'm trying to understand
19:39.09Arkenoiline 100 actually
19:39.13Arkenoiyep, brainstorm
19:39.23moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: it is not for everyone
19:39.24jebbaArkenoi: outage reports go here:  https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5818
19:39.25povbot`Bug 5818: We need servers
19:39.30*** join/#maemo crashanddie (n=slauwers@jof66-1-82-242-246-29.fbx.proxad.net)
19:39.37*** join/#maemo DarwinSurvivor (n=DarwinSu@142.232.129.163)
19:39.38RST38hServer?
19:39.54ali1234villager: go here: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/
19:39.54RST38hNo, someone needs to figure out this mess.
19:39.58RST38hNo server.
19:40.05ali1234villager: download the i2c tools, stick them on to the phone
19:40.12*** join/#maemo DarwinSurvivor (n=DarwinSu@142.232.129.163)
19:40.14villagerali1234: ok
19:40.16woglinderst he mails are on the new server now
19:40.17Sir_Lancelotyou're right moo-_-
19:40.21moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: if your objectives are many games and fun, N900 is not for you
19:40.25jebbaRST38h: i dont understand.  Usually the server outage bugs are supposed to be reported here, AFAIK:  https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5818
19:40.26povbot`Bug 5818: We need servers
19:40.28woglinderst so the hope of transition isnt down
19:40.36moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: I think N900 is more about business than entertainment
19:40.39*** join/#maemo simoneb_ (n=simone@151.59.219.188)
19:40.43moo-_-iPhone is all about entertainment
19:40.49RST38hwoglinde: I now strongly believe that the problems are not due to the hardware =(
19:41.03woglinderst only mails
19:41.09woglindenot www
19:41.23RST38hok, let us see what happens when www is transitioned
19:41.25jebbaRST38h: someone mentioned in #maemo-meeting today they have an optimization for brainstorm to speed it up. Not sure what they are waiting for tho
19:41.27Sir_Lancelotmoo -_- I see things being developed
19:41.33Sir_Lancelotin extras-devel
19:41.37Sir_Lancelotthat are amazing
19:41.43Sir_Lancelotlike the RDS FM transmitter thing
19:41.44moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: the phone has been on market just one mo
19:41.45Sir_Lancelotand so on..
19:41.51*** join/#maemo DarwinSurvivor (n=DarwinSu@142.232.129.163)
19:41.55jebbaya, just need to get them to get into extras.
19:41.57Sir_Lancelotand the BT keybord and mouse
19:42.04Sir_Lancelotthere are great achievements
19:42.07woglindejebba exchanging the crappy webserver and cms?
19:42.10Sir_Lancelotwhich no other phone will have
19:42.12woglinde*duck and hide*
19:42.15*** join/#maemo DarwinSurvivor (n=DarwinSu@142.232.129.163)
19:42.15KamuiWrkI was impressed by the thread on improving the transmitters power
19:42.17KamuiWrkis that legit?
19:42.19moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: though open source community shapes the direction geekdom and hackery are not the only factors behind N900
19:42.23KamuiWrkeveryone seems to claim in there that it works
19:42.30Sir_LancelotI'm just wondering if it will stop here and focus only on web browsing
19:42.33moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: though they are very good ones if you are into it
19:42.33*** join/#maemo DarwinSurvivor (n=DarwinSu@142.232.129.163)
19:42.34jebbawoglinde: no clue. I assume it's just something like a better SQL SELECT or something
19:42.43Sir_Lancelotor if devs will focus also in other things
19:42.47jebbabut no idea beyond that. Tis practically secret wtf they do.
19:42.51mtnbkranyone else experience that subfolders of INBOX on an imap server don't show up in the mail app on N900/maemo5?  sadly my iPhone handled my IMAP and all folders cleanly and intelligently  while the curent mail app on my N900 struggles to d/l all emails in a folder and when there are a lot it akes forever - even on wifi.
19:43.10villagerali1234: just the 3 i2c* ones? done
19:43.13ali1234yes
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19:43.33*** join/#maemo viq (n=viq@unaffiliated/viq)
19:43.34moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: Nokia will surely pursuit iPhone and Android... it would be crazy to do otherwise. Nokia would fall to be low-end phone manufacturer only
19:43.35*** join/#maemo DarwinSurvivor (n=DarwinSu@142.232.129.163)
19:43.36ali1234villager: ok, ssh in to phone, and do: rmmod lis302dl
19:43.36villagerali1234: now what?
19:43.45ali1234then: ./i2cdump 3 0x1d
19:43.52SpeedEvilKamuiWrk: it doesnt meaningfully improve it
19:43.52ali1234and pastebin output
19:44.04Sir_Lancelotforcing Symbian has brought them to that place...
19:44.05KamuiWrkSpeedEvil: roh noes!
19:44.21SpeedEvilKamuiWrk: at least - here - the default is already the max
19:44.22RST38hmoo: iPhone is pointless to pursue
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19:44.32SpeedEvilKamuiWrk: and the max power kinda sucks utterly.
19:44.45*** part/#maemo FIQ (n=FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq)
19:44.46*** join/#maemo FIQ (n=FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq)
19:44.52mtnbkrali1234: to answer your question from a few minutes ago re: good apps on iphone... I loved the gutiar tuner app and even emailed the devs to see if they would consider a maemo port - it was/is awesome and is much more than a simple tuner too
19:44.54RST38hmoo: It is a cult, not a thing any more
19:45.01villagerali1234: http://pastebin.com/m6faf050f
19:45.03TomaszDjebba, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Package_Building_HOWTO#debian.2Fcontrol
19:45.22Sir_Lancelotjust ot make it clear: I hate iphone
19:45.26Sir_LancelotLOL
19:45.29RST38hmoo: Android is pursuable, especially considering how many things Google just does not get about phones
19:45.30ali1234villager: ok that's good
19:45.31jebbaTomaszD: rad! THx!
19:45.38ali1234villager: hang on while i check datasheet for next command
19:45.39moo-_-RST38h: If you look behind fanboyism, iPhone has the best usability of modern phones, still. Apple has shown how to do appstore correctly.
19:45.46TomaszDjebba, np
19:45.50*** join/#maemo angleiron (i=63407ddf@gateway/web/freenode/x-qjqhwzuuitnmvwld)
19:45.59RST38hmoo: This does not matter
19:46.00*** join/#maemo Pudding-n900 (n=user@chello084112095229.38.11.vie.surfer.at)
19:46.14RST38hmoo: What matters is that it is a cult
19:46.20moo-_-RST38h: are you saying that usability does not matter?
19:46.21RevdKathymtnbkr - I thinkthere is a tuner app, isn;t there? In testing if not in extras
19:46.30SpeedEvilRST38h: Oooh - cult
19:46.32SpeedEvil!
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19:46.32mtnbkrSir_Lancelot: lol   iPhone is nice but I HATED all the DRM and other LOCK INS... Day one on my N900 I was playing all my ogg vorbis files. Screw Apple. :)
19:46.44SpeedEvilRST38h: Do we get ceremonial robes?
19:46.46RST38hmoo: Oh usability matters but even if iPhone were unusable, it would not make a difference
19:46.47jebbaya, defintely screw apple ;)
19:46.54ifreqSpeedEvil: yeah ofcoors
19:46.54moo-_-RST38h: ah
19:46.59ifreqcan i hold the dagger
19:47.03ifreqmoo will be sacrifised
19:47.09RST38hifreq: Yea
19:47.09ali1234villager: ok now: ./i2cset 3 0x1d 0x21 0x40
19:47.18RevdKathymtnbkr: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/tuner/
19:47.22moo-_-RST38h: however, there are rational arguments where iPhone is good, not Good
19:47.24ali1234villager: and then ./i2cdump 3 0x1d again, and pastebin output
19:47.36RST38hifreq: You hold the dagger, SpeedEvil will be at the altar, in his ceremonial robes
19:47.40mtnbkrRevdKathy: yeah, I have it but there is no comparison.   Not even one thing is comparable. the Guitar Tuner app on iPhone I had had all sorts of chord configs, metronome,  and more.  pretty slick acually.
19:47.42woglindeali uh what are thes commands do to i2c?
19:47.49RST38hifreq: I will go bring something to collect the blood into
19:47.56moo-_-RST38h: it was big mistake for Nokia to ignore iPhone when it was released... it made them to look like idiots today
19:47.56ali1234woglinde: they send i2c raw packets
19:48.08SpeedEvilwhere are i2c
19:48.12SpeedEvil* tools
19:48.13SpeedEvil?
19:48.17ali1234woglinde: i2cdump reads the whole i2c register address apce
19:48.19villagerali1234: http://pastebin.com/m63738241
19:48.21ali1234SpeedEvil: i compiled them myself
19:48.28woglindei2dump us clear
19:48.31woglindeis clear
19:48.40RST38hmoo: Nokia is a huge company which explicitly abandoned touch devices years ago
19:48.54RST38hmoo: It has got lots of inertia. Hence the reaction.
19:48.57villagerali1234: perhaps we need to reset the boot bit also?
19:49.07ali1234villager: i thought 0x40 was the boot bit
19:49.18ali1234try 0x02 instead maybe the endianness is wrong
19:49.22villagerali1234: yes, but you just set it, also need to reset it back to 0?
19:49.22Sir_Lancelotand how about PalmPre
19:49.26Sir_Lancelotis Linux
19:49.31Sir_Lancelotopen source and so on
19:49.32Arkenoiwell, apple's idea is "fuck the long tail". make something that fits perfectly for 90% users and just do not care if the rest becomes upset. most people's usage patterns are simple (who said "stupid"? ;-) and if you do not fit, apple is not for you. i don't.
19:49.36Sir_Lancelotbut looks good!
19:49.38jXas well as all the android phones
19:49.42RST38hSir: PalmPre is dead afaik
19:49.48villagerali1234: I can try to set it back to 0
19:49.50jXRST38h: what?
19:49.51ali1234villager: no it goes back to 0 automatically according to datasheet
19:50.11RST38hjX: Tiny sales compared to other players
19:50.16moo-_-RST38h: it is not about touch screen, but the generic concept what people want. Nokia was all about features features features and S60 menus were getting horrible phone after phone.
19:50.19RST38hjX: Lots of complaints about performance
19:50.26jXyeah, but saying it's dead is silly
19:50.40RST38hjX: This is as good as dead
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19:50.51RST38hzombified, ok
19:50.53Sir_LancelotjX you have to learn to flter what RST38h says...  ehehehe
19:50.55villagerali1234: didn't appear to in the dump though
19:50.57moo-_-looking back to that.... N900 doesn't have that many features :D
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19:51.09ali1234villager: right, and 0x40 is definitely right
19:51.11villagerali1234: ok, should I try 2?
19:51.11jXSir_Lancelot: There seem to be a number of people here in need of filters. ;)
19:51.19ali1234villager: looks like your accelerometer has actually crashed :/
19:51.25RST38hmoo: Nokia does not target what people want
19:51.30Sir_LancelotjX , right ;)
19:51.30KamuiWrkSpeedEvil, noooo!  mine shows 113 as the powerlevel, people were saying raising it to 118 removed static in the car, does this not sound accurate?  I suppose the best proof for me would be to actually try it
19:51.35Arkenoiand it is religion - people are *willing* to ajust their habits because they faithfully believe that apple knows better what they need than themselves. looks like it is true. apple is not for people capable of determining their own needs either.
19:51.40moo-_-RST38h: well they are doing consumer business?
19:51.45KamuiWrkI mean, Im not trying to run a pirate radio station :)
19:51.55RST38hmoo: It targets whatever its highly paid business / market analysts say people want
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19:52.11Sir_Lancelotjust because Maemo is wonderfull, why can't it be beautifull as well? :d
19:52.12ali1234villager: wait a minute
19:52.16ali1234it's turned off
19:52.22SpeedEvilKamuiWrk: I'm not saying it can't work - just that the difference
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19:52.30SpeedEvilI found with my radio was very small.
19:52.33RevdKathyKamuiWrk - do it - run MaemoFM from your n900 and do phone in chats!
19:52.35Arkenoiwants to override most annoying radio stations, shame the transmitter is not strong enough
19:52.35ali1234villager: ./i2cset 0x1d 0x20 0x40
19:52.39RST38hmoo: Once you let those make decisions, things generally continue going in the same direction where they started to go years ago
19:52.51RST38hmoo: For S60 it was "more features"
19:52.53SpeedEvilKamuiWrk: and hte output power at highest is regrettably small
19:53.00moo-_-RST38h: ack. I agree.
19:53.07ali1234villager: actually 0x47
19:53.29RST38hmoo: Making a non-standard decision may get you fired but making the same decision as the last year is ok
19:53.53villagerali1234: http://pastebin.com/m2d82dd2d
19:54.04moo-_-RST38h: there is very much truth in that
19:54.09RST38hmoo: and there is no jackass at the top who would say "ah, screw it all"
19:54.14ali1234villager: see the different values at 0x10 - 0x1f now?
19:54.17Arkenoirst38h: that's the problem of mobile industry: no one has the balls
19:54.17Sir_Lancelothaving the palm pre on N900...would be like having the Megan Fox in your bed, and a pair of nuts with 10 Lt of milk
19:54.23villagerali1234: yep
19:54.26ali1234villager: also 0x21 went back to 0
19:54.27RST38hArkenoi: not just mobile
19:54.35ali1234villager: ok so now try reloading the module
19:54.37moo-_-RST38h: well... jackass is a synonym for leadership :)
19:54.39RST38hArkenoi: industry as a whole
19:54.40ali1234villager: see if it works ok now
19:54.44RST38hok, corporate industry
19:55.00moo-_-Sir_Lancelot: which one is Megan Gox?
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19:55.06Arkenoithe term "iphone killer" is itself a sign of terminal loser
19:55.10Sir_Lancelotupsss
19:55.11lardmansees the snowcast for SW England
19:55.11Sir_LancelotFox
19:55.12Sir_Lancelot:P
19:55.13villagerali1234: looks good
19:55.28moo-_-Arkenoi: in Nexus One launch even they specifically avoided the term
19:55.30Arkenoinot having the balls to make the obvious thing the first place and then chasing the leader
19:55.31ali1234villager: ok, so this is probably a bug in the module then
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19:55.48ali1234villager: in any case, a "reallyreset" option can be added
19:55.52ali1234villager: through sys
19:55.58moo-_-Arkenoi: no one kills anyone in corporate business... they all do suicide.
19:55.59RST38hok, sleep for me.
19:56.00villagerali1234: dunno, could be some other linux module doing something wrong to the i2c bus, not necessarily the lis302dl, or?
19:56.06ali1234villager: it could, yes
19:56.12villagerali1234: but yeah, a boot option would be great
19:56.14RST38hmoo: actually they do not suicide
19:56.21ali1234villager: it would have to be a module though, since the driver locks that device from userspace access
19:56.30ali1234villager: that's why i asked you to unlaod it
19:56.38RST38hmoo: They get their severance packages and go marinate in sunshine somewhere
19:57.12RST38hmoo: Their former employees do suicide every now and then, although homocide seems to be more common among them nowadays
19:57.38TomaszDnice, organizing the menu will come in PR1.2 hopefully
19:57.39RST38h<sleep>
19:57.41TomaszD:)
19:57.54SpeedEvilali1234: are these tools in any downloadable form?
19:57.55Arkenoias i stated before, religious beliefs are important. imagine HTC made a phone with no bluetooth, no cut&paste, imbecile email client and non-removable battery 3 years ago. people would laugh at it!
19:58.09Arkenoibut apple fanboys are believers
19:58.20ali1234SpeedEvil: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/
19:58.20villagerali1234: well, hope it'll be fixed in some future update, anyway
19:58.32SpeedEvilrhanka~
19:58.44Arkenoicultists even
19:59.17ali1234i guess i should make a package, i do have a repo after all
20:00.45tigertwow
20:00.50woglindeArkenoi he they fixed cut and paste
20:00.51tigertgtranslate app
20:00.55tigertrocks!
20:00.58tigertneat
20:01.00woglindeafter 2 years
20:01.13jebbatigert: does gtranslate use web?  (i'm assuming that's google=
20:01.21tigertyes
20:01.41*** join/#maemo mas (n=mas@cm238-46.liwest.at)
20:01.57woglindejebba burgerspace has now 9 thumbs up
20:02.10jebbanice thx :)
20:02.18*** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=Slonopot@80.90.124.131)
20:02.36jebbawoglinde: surely you did extensive testing and debugging too, right?!! ;)
20:02.50jebbadont want you to be chased by fried chicked or anything
20:04.29*** join/#maemo eijk (n=til@e178218123.adsl.alicedsl.de)
20:04.52ali1234haha i used to have this game on C64
20:04.59ali1234except it was called "mr wimpy"
20:05.13FIQok
20:05.20FIQso, guys
20:05.33FIQwhen you answered my question before, my battery runned out
20:05.43FIQso i didn't really managed to see the answer
20:05.48FIQso i ask again
20:05.59*** join/#maemo onen|openBmap (n=quassel@vbo91-1-89-87-201-85.dsl.club-internet.fr)
20:06.17FIQhow long would the battery last if you use Xchat, microB and some random msn application running?
20:06.54tigertmaybe the N900 answered to you? :)
20:07.12FIQoh
20:07.15FIQit would sure do...
20:07.18FIQif i had one
20:07.20fralsdepends on how much you use each activity and quality of net connection id say
20:07.21FIQ:)
20:07.22tigertah
20:07.47FIQfrals, ok, then i will test for myself. :p
20:08.31FIQit's not really a problem (i'm used to take my charger with me all the day, my current phone last after 2 hours using), but could be nice to know
20:08.48KamuiWrkis 1000 blocks 1K or 1M
20:09.03*** join/#maemo trickie (n=trickie@86.93.227.181)
20:09.04KamuiWrk1024
20:09.12KamuiWrkor not even related
20:09.45jebbacan i karma whore one more stinking vote for this app so i can forget about it? thx  :)  http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/burgerspace/1.8.3-18/
20:10.35BaTmAnI think karma should come round without you asking for it ;)
20:11.01BaTmAnbut hey
20:11.08BaTmAn10/10
20:11.10BaTmAnwell done
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20:12.05FIQi lost. :3
20:12.18Pudding-n900is it wotrth downloading it?
20:12.30Pudding-n900*worth
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20:19.01hrwheh...
20:19.27hrwPR 1.1 is not released for people and nokians respond with 'will be fixed in pr 1.2'
20:19.58woglindehrw lol
20:20.13pwnguinPR?
20:20.18hrwwants maemo5 lenny edition
20:20.26villagerwell, it's released to beta testers though I think
20:20.37pwnguinpre-release?
20:20.52hrwpwnguin: name it like you want
20:21.02woglindehrw hm yes and we want debhelper 7 with override support
20:21.14woglindelenny has only debhelper7 without it
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20:22.16hrwwoglinde: once switched to lenny backports will be easier. but from my rumours maemo11 will be first release based on Lenny
20:22.17fralshrw: what bug is that?
20:22.40hrwfrals: something with hildontouchscroller
20:22.47hrwI just removed that mail
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20:23.01hrwbug #5496
20:23.02povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5496 HildonTouchSelector: No hint that there are more items
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20:24.46GAN900Hoo boy, I can only imagine the flames my full inbox is full of.
20:25.13Bolle_mobilehi
20:26.06hrwwoglinde: the fun is that to get more sane devs nokia should do such updates. but they are frozen by sbox with obsolete software (and looks like no one got idea to pay for improving it). effect is that instead of getting stuff from Debian in easy way we need to hack
20:26.27hrwbut thats maemo way and did not changed since os2005
20:26.56hrwexcept they learnt that software update does not need to equal total reflash. took them 3 years...
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20:27.31Bolle_mobilesbox really sucks :)
20:27.51ali1234sbox only exists because of the autotools mess
20:28.09woglindeali what?
20:28.14hrwali1234: really? there are build systems which takes that mess from you
20:28.26ali1234hrw: indeed
20:28.42woglindeali you can use autotools the right or the wrong way
20:28.45hrwali1234: I am building whole embedded distributions for last few years and nearly did not touched autotools at that time
20:28.48woglindeit depends on you
20:28.50ali1234sbox only exists because autotools relies on configure being run in the target environment
20:28.56woglindewhen you are lazy as developer
20:29.03woglindeyou will mess it up
20:29.13hrwali1234: orly?
20:29.34ali1234hrw: yes, really, that is the whole reason for scratchbox to exist
20:29.35woglindeali please look at openembedded
20:29.43ali1234if it wasn't for that, we could just cross compile everything like normal
20:29.51woglindehrw and  I working with and on it
20:29.58villagerali1234: autotools has no such requirement, you're supposed to run configure on the host environment
20:29.59ali1234woglinde: openembedded is a collection of patches for broken autotools scripts
20:30.18villagerali1234: the only issue is when people don't know how to use autotools properly
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20:30.25jon1012hi all
20:30.25woglindebroken cmake bjam and scons too
20:30.28woglinde*g*
20:30.32hrwali1234: not only autotools... we cover (nearly) every build system tools now
20:30.35ali1234villager: which is like 99.99% of people who use autotools, because it's huge and impossible to understand
20:30.46jon1012someone knows why, when I'm on 3g, neither mail nor google talk / skype or anything work beside the web browser ?
20:30.47woglindeali????
20:30.55hrwcmake, scons, distutils, autotools, qmake, perl crap etc etc etc
20:30.55jon1012when I'm on wifi everything works
20:31.04hrwjon1012: works for me
20:31.05ali1234woglinde: yes, you heard me
20:31.06woglindeali 2 days and you are fine with autotools
20:31.13ali1234woglinde: which version?
20:31.17woglindebut I had this discussion often
20:31.27Bolle_mobilecan i get rid of busybox by liking /bin/sh to bash? sudo gainroot always gives me busybox...
20:31.33jon1012whenever I connect using data connection (edge/ 3g) only web works
20:31.35SpeedEviljon1012: some providers filter crap
20:31.36woglindeI think 4 times here
20:31.48jon1012SpeedEvil: I can't even use imap :(
20:31.55jon1012bwah
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20:32.06ali1234Bolle_mobile: i wouldn't recommend it, all kinds of bad stuff could happen
20:32.08jon1012and I thought it for one year to get the n900 :(
20:32.08woglindeali with autotools when used right, I will know it will crosscompile for most arches I use
20:32.16jon1012took not thought
20:32.19ali1234woglinde: when used right, yes
20:32.33woglindeali using autotools right isnt that hard
20:32.33ali1234but that almost never happens
20:32.35woglinde2 days
20:32.39hrwBolle_mobile: chsh from root account
20:32.41woglindebelieve me
20:32.46Bolle_mobileyeah... i expected wired things :)
20:32.52ali1234woglinde: can you get python developers to fix their build system then please?
20:33.05Arkenoitried to tune adblock+ settings, no luck - i cannot add any filters, the ui is non-responsive there.
20:33.08Bolle_mobilebash is aleady my root shell
20:33.19hrwArkenoi: same here
20:33.32hrwBolle_mobile: apt-get install rootsh and use 'root' instead of 'sudo gainroot'?
20:33.33woglindeali unfornatly I dont get payed to fix all the crappy stuff
20:33.37timeless_mbpandre__: i can't
20:33.41Bolle_mobilessh root@localhost works fine
20:33.41timeless_mbpbugzilla's closed for the holidays :)
20:34.00Bolle_mobileah thanks hrw
20:34.08andre__timeless_mbp, and you cannot wait two days? means you should learn some self-organization ;-)
20:34.21timeless_mbpi have other problems
20:34.21hrwali1234: in OE we do build of native python to build target python
20:34.23woglindeali and I have to write more code on myself when I am using cmake
20:34.30andre__timeless_mbp, up to you. I won't look at them
20:34.31timeless_mbpbut yes, my self-org sucks
20:34.33andre__no time
20:34.38timeless_mbpyeah, don't worry
20:34.41ali1234woglinde: well my original point stands, sbox exists because nobody knows how to use autotools properly, because it's too complicated and the docs are horrible
20:34.48timeless_mbpi'll ensure someone collects them
20:35.11woglindeali no
20:35.29woglindeeven with scratchbox the messy autotools using will be better
20:35.53woglindeali but you didnt provide a solution on your own
20:36.06woglindebashing is one thing to make it better another
20:36.58Bolle_mobileroot works fine... didn't know that
20:37.25villagerwoglinde: he's defending scratchbox as the solution, that's his point...
20:37.52woglindevillager hm I didnt get this interpretation
20:38.14KamuiWrkwow
20:38.17KamuiWrkI am freeing up nothing
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20:39.06villagerwoglinde: he says scratchbox is needed because people can't use autotools properly so it's impossible to crosscompile autotools-using stuff without scratchbox
20:39.45villageror other virtual environments I suppose
20:39.47KamuiWrk:)
20:40.16jebbaBaTmAn: thx! :)
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20:43.01ali12341i'm not defending scratchbox
20:43.07*** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=Slonopot@80.90.124.131)
20:43.57jebbaali1234: pretty much all distros use some kind of scratchbox to build
20:43.59ali12341i'm merely pointing out that if somebody made a build system that could actually handle cross compiling gracefully, then scratchbox would not be needed
20:44.07felipecit's possible to cross-compile autotools stuff without scratchbox
20:44.12jebbathough maybe not as crufty as maemo sb ;)
20:44.16felipecit's just horrendously difficult
20:44.20ali12341felipec: except when it isn't
20:44.55felipecali12341: OE does it, for example, and Fedora, AFAIK
20:45.18kulveand some specific components are designed to be easily cross compilable
20:45.22jebbaBaTmAn: or maybe not, still says 9/10
20:45.40jebbafelipe, ya fedora uses "mock" which is quite nice.
20:45.44wazd_e63Screw T9 dictionary - hello qwerty magic
20:46.01ali12341gentoo has that whole crossdev thing
20:46.09*** join/#maemo Moku (n=John@e181245022.adsl.alicedsl.de)
20:46.15ali12341and a huge collection of patches against broken autotools + other build scripts
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20:49.11Bolle_mobile@jebba thanks for your wiki page.. :)
20:50.12slonopotamusjebba, you don't need scratchbox. you need crosscompiler and/or qemu or build natively
20:50.18swc|666yea jebba 's wiki page kicks chuck norris' ass
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20:51.10jebbaBolle_mobile: no prob  :)
20:51.57jebbaslonopotamus: ya, i know. But if you want to build hundreds of packages sanely, you use some sort of scratchbox/chroot/whateveryouwanttocallit
20:53.38Bolle_mobilehehe and chuck norris has an n900 :D
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20:55.13jebbaBaTmAn: your voted didn't count. Must be diebold running the thing  ;)
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20:56.45MaemohammadAGrepos down?
20:56.48slonopotamusjebba, in gentoo, you just use package manager :)
20:57.11jebbaslonopotamus: ah, i've done gentoo, but not crosscompiling.
20:57.13MaemohammadAG97% [Waiting for headers]
20:57.57ali1234jebba: under gentoo it isn't much more complicated than ROOT=/foo ARCH=whatever emerge ...
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20:58.35jebbaMaemohammadAG: outages get filed here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5818  they probably will want to know what IP you're coming from  (ah, and your DNS resolver. Just thought of that, but it'll be usefull)
20:58.36povbot`Bug 5818: We need servers
20:58.53loufoque_is there an android environment for maemo, in order to run android applications?
20:58.59jebbaali1234: and what does that produce in the end?
20:59.02simoneb_i am unable to remove or reinstall some packages because they fail with this error: Could not find platform independent libraries <prefix>, Could not find platform dependent libraries <exec_prefix>, Consider setting $PYTHONHOME to <prefix>[:<exec_prefix>] (etc.etc.) I think that setting $PYTHONHOME may fix them, what should i set it to?
20:59.16slonopotamusali1234, nowadays it is even simpler thanks to crossdev-wrappers that create proper wrapper script with all variables needed for emerge
20:59.17ali1234jebba: it produces a chroot for your arch in /foo
20:59.19jebbai thought that just installed on gentoo, but that's all i've ever done with it. Never made gentoo pacakges.
20:59.30jebbaah, ya, well a chroot is basically a sandbox.
20:59.36jebbaor a sandbox is a glorified chroot more like
21:00.05ali1234jebba: the chroot is your final root fs. or you can say --buildpackage
21:00.35leon-argh.. why in the hell does the foreca widget open the browser.. how crappy is that :)
21:00.52ali1234essentially, emerge can already cross compile stuff just by setting some variables, then it works exactly the same as compiling native
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21:03.40jebbadah burgers in extras!  (well, next cron run i assume)
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21:11.52GAN900vdv
21:11.56GAN900VDVsx, ping?
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21:27.54wirelessdreameranyone know here if master and monitor mode can be enabled on the n900's wireless card?
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21:29.01woglindewirelessdreamer I will try qucik build iw
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21:31.10wirelessdreamerwoglinde: I tried iwconfig wlan0 mode monitor/master after sudo gainroot with no luck
21:31.24wirelessdreamerwas wondering if there is a modified kernel module that'll enable it
21:31.31wirelessdreamerI haven't looked into chipset support yet
21:33.00jebbawirelessdreamer: just a bug closed as WONTFIX about that today since it's something to do with iwconfig, not specific to n900
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21:33.39wirelessdreamerjebba: does the chipset support it?
21:33.42woglindeyeah thats why I will try iw
21:33.46wirelessdreamermaybe can be set with iwpriv
21:35.03VDVsxGAN900, pong
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21:35.57mkargarhello | how to install android 2.1 on n900?
21:37.48jebbawirelessdreamer: dont know off hand
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21:39.06wirelessdreamerjebba: thanks
21:39.32jebbawirelessdreamer: there's also a thread on talk.maemo.org .  Search for wifi hotspot
21:39.46jebbahttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6350
21:39.47povbot`Bug 6350: getbootstate bricks the device after 17 reboots if there are no normal boots in between them
21:40.02jebbawirelessdreamer:  sry, bad paste:  http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30916&goto=newpost
21:40.26N900evilmk8, you do not.
21:40.31mkargarhello | how to install android 2.1 on n900?
21:40.44N900evilyou can't
21:40.45jebbamkargar: i dont think anyone has.
21:40.49greenflymkargar: you don't/can't
21:40.54woglindemkargar wrong channel
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21:41.59greenflynot that I'd see much of a point of having android anyway, unless there's some special java app you need
21:42.21mkargargreenfly:it possible in future?
21:42.27simoneb_i can't uninstall or reinstall or have it to work telepathy-butterfly ... it appears that a long list of dependencies are half-configured and in the same state, how can i recover them?
21:42.28greenflyif you are a developer the development options are better under maemo, and if you are a Linuxy guy, the Linux environment is actually real and you don't have to jailbreak anything
21:42.53greenflymkargar: probably not, you will probably have to purchase a device google supports
21:43.04woglindehui libnl builds
21:43.29greenflymkargar: for instance, the droid has similar hardware specs to the n900 and runs android
21:43.54greenflyat least, I'd say that's the most comparable device out there, hardware-wise
21:44.11woglindehms
21:44.19woglindeiw is at dephelper 7
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21:44.56jebbagreenfly: well, you don't have to jailbreak anything, but even if you get it to install you can't charge your battery and such...
21:45.18greenflyjebba: you might have misunderstood me
21:45.22mkargargreenfly:are you mean motorola droid?
21:45.37greenflyjebba: what I'm saying is that under maemo you don't have to jailbreak anything to get access to the Linux underneath
21:45.44greenflymkargar: yes
21:46.06mkargargreenfly:but,it is only for germany!
21:46.42valdynmkargar: what is only for germany?
21:46.47greenflymkargar: if a hardware keyboard is important to you, and you want similar specs, then you might have to wait for another phone
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21:47.07greenflymkargar: it is very unlikely that android will be ported to the n900 any time soon
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21:48.46ali1234sounds like a challenge
21:49.29Stskeepswhy unlikely? :P
21:49.42Stskeepsi mean, there were people insane enough to do it for n8x0.
21:49.57mkargarvaldyn:my mean it released only in germany country?ok?
21:50.00greenflyStskeeps: key phrase is "any time soon"
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21:50.17greenflyStskeeps: I can see someone doing it, say, in a few years when the shine has warn off their n900 and they want to test things
21:50.37VDVsxJaffa, wow, you win @ X-terminal icon, lolol
21:50.41greenflybut I think most people that are clever like that are either working for android or working for maemo, and likely not for both
21:50.59greenflybut hey, stranger things have happened
21:51.07greenflyI'm sure it's possible
21:51.10ali1234i don't really see any evidence of that
21:51.19wazd_e63who is insane enough to want android on  n900
21:51.24ali1234i think most of the people who would do it probably have about 10 phones already
21:51.33wazd_e63Call the nurse
21:51.54greenflyI just don't know why someone would want a castrated linux on their n900
21:52.02valdynmkargar: i dont get it, phones release late in germany, not "only in germany"
21:52.03greenflywhen they can have the real thing
21:53.33jon1012greenfly: to get more apps ?
21:53.47wazd_e63sheesh
21:54.00greenflyjon1012: 90% of which just replicate the functionality in a website that their web browser can't manage?
21:54.06VDVsxboots android in wazd's e63
21:54.23wazd_e63vdvsx, eeew)
21:55.04jon1012greenfly: websites that need to have super good eyes to see ? (or if they want to pan around during 2 minutes using zoom)
21:55.23ali1234yeah, those apps make using websites a lot easier on mobiles
21:55.25mkargargreenfly:ok!ok!what id differents in n900 and android phone hardware's that i can't install android on it?
21:55.26jon1012greenfly: I love maemo, but you have to give that to android, there are a lot of apps on that :)
21:55.49greenflyjon1012: if we are going by that then we should all be using iPhones
21:55.52wazd_e63jon1012, what exactly apps?
21:56.02ali1234greenfly: not all, just most
21:56.23greenflyhaving 100x more fart apps doesn't make it a compelling platform to me
21:56.23jon1012I had an iphone before my n900, and I love my n900, it's not the point
21:56.33mkargargreenfly:what is...
21:56.41greenflybeing restricted to programming only in a proprietary version of java doesn't help either
21:56.41jon1012point it, n900 lacks websites done for it, or a lot of apps... but that will come with time
21:56.49jon1012point is*
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21:56.57greenflyhaving a castrated Linux userspace that you have to hack to get access to doesn't attract me either
21:57.18wazd_e63change the fucking user agent
21:57.26greenflyit's only "open" if you are comparing it to an iPhone
21:57.33valdynjon1012: "lacks websites done for it" ?
21:57.40greenflybut you still have to jailbreak both to have any real fun
21:57.42valdynjon1012: that totally defeats the purpose
21:57.55jon1012wazd_e63: yeah... websites done for a normal screen can't work correctly on a screen with such high dpi !
21:58.07ali1234what i want to know is why should everyone want the same thing?
21:58.14jon1012oops, valdyn not wazd_e63 :)
21:58.20ali1234i mean, different people might want different things from their phone, did you consider that?
21:58.29greenflyali1234: I'm in the maemo channel
21:58.29valdynjon1012: i still dont get it
21:58.44greenflyali1234: not in the android or iPhone or general cellphone os channel
21:58.52valdyn( and i wish i had higher dpi )
21:58.54greenflyso I'm talking about why I like maemo as a platform over the rest
21:58.58jon1012valdyn: if I go to normal websites, I have to zoom (or put my eyes very near to the screen)
21:59.09ali1234greenfly: no, you're slating all the others and causing an argument
21:59.13valdynjon1012: different dpi does not change that
21:59.15jon1012valdyn: iphone optimised sites on iphone are easily readable...
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21:59.34greenflyali1234: I'm talking about why I don't like the others in the context of why I think maemo is superior
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21:59.38jon1012ok not dpi but "higher resoluton on a lesser physical space"
21:59.46greenflyali1234: you know, it's /OK/ for people to have a difference of opinion
21:59.51wazd_e63jon1012, change browser's agent to the aifone
22:00.00wazd_e63And be happy
22:00.01valdynjon1012: you can id as iphone
22:00.21valdynjon1012: but you will not ever see each smartphone get its own special site version
22:00.25jon1012I don't want :) my n900 has a better resolution than iphone, so using iphone websites on n900 is not good either
22:00.44jon1012valdyn: I don't ask that... I ask that mobile websites take resolution into account
22:00.52greenflyali1234: and I think my pro-maemo comments are in the right channel
22:01.02ali1234greenfly: sure, but you say things like "I just don't know why someone would want a castrated linux on their n900" and then argue with the people who explain it to you
22:01.10jon1012or a web browser that can emulate a lesser resolution doing zoom on elements and not letting the full layout as is
22:01.13valdynjon1012: oh well, thats not gonna happen
22:01.19greenflyali1234: noone has explained it to me yet
22:01.24valdynjon1012: its not even happening for real computers
22:01.25greenflyali1234: one person said they wanted more apps
22:01.35greenflyali1234: noone has explained why they wanted the limited Linux userspace
22:01.41valdynjon1012: dont i love those fixed-width websites
22:01.56ali1234android is no more limited than maemo if you buy the developer edition of the phone
22:02.06greenflyali1234: have you seen the linux userspace?
22:02.16Stskeeps'"On the Nexus One, only 190 megabytes of its total 4.5 gigabytes of memory is allowed for storing apps. On the $199 iPhone, nearly all of the 16 gigabytes of memory can be used for apps."
22:02.16greenflymaemo feels like a regular old debian distro
22:02.20Stskeepsoh the irony
22:02.25*** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=Slonopot@80.90.124.131)
22:02.32valdynthats probably nonsense too
22:02.51greenflyandroid has all these shortcuts, hacks, etc. that make it barely like a Linux userspace anyone would recognize
22:02.55lbtStskeeps: bug 6416  ... can you ask for the source in your official capacity :)    .....  especially given Alan's comment that it's not in the w51-1 build
22:02.57povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6416 Wifi won't connect until rebooted...
22:03.07ali1234greenfly: maemo has plenty of those too
22:03.09greenflynot that it matters, since you seem to be stuck using java to program for it, why access the userspace anyway?
22:03.11Stskeepslbt: aren't you supposed to be on vacation or did i miss something? :P
22:03.17lbtsoon, soon
22:03.19ali1234greenfly: quite
22:03.26lbtleave friday morning
22:03.32lbtsnow permitting!
22:03.38lbtwe're snowed in ..... again
22:03.42greenflyfor me, the ability to access the userspace without having to violate any ToS is a feature, though
22:03.52greenflyfor me, the ability to have a range of programming languages as options is a feature
22:04.12greenflyfor me, another platform having more apps at the moment isn't compelling or otherwise I'd be using an iPhone
22:04.18ali1234i don't have any issue with this
22:04.23greenflybecause android sits in the middle
22:04.32greenflydoesn't have as many apps as iPhone and isn't as slick and polished
22:04.35greenflybut is slightly more open
22:04.37*** part/#maemo JamieBennett (n=JamieBen@Maemo/community/contributor/JamieBennett)
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22:04.58greenflymaemo is very open, but certainly doesn't have as many apps as either (I'd argue parts of it are as slick as android)
22:05.42greenflyanyway this is my opinion
22:05.52ali1234well like it or not, there will always be people who choose style over substance
22:05.58greenflyyeah and that's their right
22:06.06greenflythey are just as entitled to their opinion
22:06.54ali1234also for people who use google services a lot, the android integration is very good
22:07.01woglindeokay
22:07.02ali1234it arguably works better than iphone
22:07.08woglindeiw list the card only as monitor
22:07.13greenflyali1234: google:android::apple:iphone
22:07.20wirelessdreamerwoglinde: I really only care about monitor
22:07.26wirelessdreamerdid you grab iw from a repo?
22:07.28ali1234greenfly: exactly N900:???
22:07.30jon1012I am a python developer, I'm an open source developer, I use pygtk daily in my work too... so I really really love maemo and the n900... so same for me... but I would love more apps and a better browser (that can somehow adapt websites to get bigger fonts and stuff like that) on the n900
22:07.43woglindewirless lets see if iw can clone the interface
22:07.47greenflysure, if you use a lot of proprietary services from a vendor, you will likely get a better integrated experience on their hardware and software
22:07.54ali1234greenfly: if they had any sense it would be N900:ubuntu :)
22:08.34wirelessdreamern900 supports gmail, goolgetalk voice, googletalk im, skype voice, skype im, imo it has perfect integration off the main services
22:08.39greenflyNokia doesn't have the same sort of non-phone hardware and software services to lock you in
22:08.55ali1234wirelessdreamer: the gmail support in N900 is awful
22:09.22wirelessdreamerthen again I don't want to be notified as i recieve new email
22:09.23ali1234gtalk is ok, but i don't see any way to make audio calls over gtalk
22:09.41zashdoes xmpp-jingle work?
22:09.50wirelessdreameri've only used they skype voice calls for voip so far
22:09.53zashon non-gogle servers
22:09.53simula_i like the gmail support personally :)
22:09.58Gadgetoid_iMacstarts futility hacking away at rocks 'n' diamonds on his n900 again
22:09.58ifreqwould love to have _good_ msn plugin and skype video
22:10.00ali1234i don't know anyone who uses skype
22:10.03greenflyso maemo doesn't have to worry as much about integration. it's more like Linux in general where the goal is general interoperability
22:10.19wirelessdreamerskype video with support for either camera would be one i'd like
22:10.46woglindehm no tcpdump
22:10.49greenflyinstead of something to encourage you to sign up with more google or apple services
22:10.50ali1234i would be happy if i could just read me gmail in N900
22:10.56wirelessdreamerwoglinde: tcpdump works
22:11.01wirelessdreamerits in one of the other repos
22:11.04*** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
22:11.06greenflyali1234: use the exchange or IMAP sync?
22:11.07ali1234but i can't because i have several folders with several hundred mails in each
22:11.21ali1234the only way i can use gmail on N900 is thru browser
22:11.23wirelessdreamerand if you use easy debian wireshark works in non monitor mode as well
22:11.35ali1234if i try to use the imap thing, it just hangs and never loads up the mails
22:11.36simula_ahhh, ali1234, i only have an inbox that i really use :)
22:11.36greenflyor otherwise just use the browser
22:11.36wirelessdreamerali1234: i've got gmail running in the built in mail client
22:11.51woglindehms tcpdump in sid has debformat 3
22:11.53wirelessdreameri don't have google voice integration working right though
22:11.56woglindetrying lenny one
22:12.20wirelessdreamerwoglinde: I think it was in extras or extras-devel when i grabbed it
22:12.20go1dfishgood google voice integration would be very nice
22:12.20go1dfishparticularly for incoming calls
22:12.27wirelessdreamerstandalone googlevoice app for dialingworks for me
22:12.29go1dfishright now, answering a gv call on the n900 is quite a hassle
22:12.34greenflybut if someone came in here arguing that the n900 doesn't integrate well with iTunes and their Mac, and that's incredibly important to them, I'd probably suggest they try out an iPhone
22:12.37jon1012we could make a gmail app ourselves :)
22:12.39go1dfishI almost always end up missing the call
22:12.41ifreqlikes to stay away from google (okay mayb google maps..)
22:12.45woglindehm lets see wirelessdreamer
22:12.53jon1012using python libgmail and pygtk...
22:12.59greenflylikewise, if someone is tied in to many google products for all their daily apps, I'd argue they should look at android
22:13.02wirelessdreameri'm not sure what apt command would tell me what repo i installed tcpdump from
22:13.12ali1234greenfly: i'm not tied in, there is nothing better for me
22:13.13woglindehm I have it enable
22:13.25go1dfishgreenfly: I disagree there, one of the things google does do right (most of the time) is their use of open protocols
22:13.27greenflywirelessdreamer: apt-cache showpkg <packagename>
22:13.27wirelessdreamerwoglinde: sec i'll check again
22:13.33woglindeit is there
22:13.43go1dfishand thats where linux can/should shine as well
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22:14.16greenflygo1dfish: sure, but it's less out of a sense of nobility and more out of a sense that it doesn't impact their bottom line like it does with Apple or MS
22:14.20wirelessdreamerwoglinde: its in extras-devel
22:14.29wirelessdreamergreenfly: thanks
22:14.38greenflyafterall, if you develop other apps that use their protocol, you are still storing your data on their servers
22:14.46simoneb_can anybody tell me what the $PYTHONHOME variable should be set to in maemo?
22:14.55greenflyand still not impacting their search business
22:15.00ali1234greenfly: unless you develop an app that sucks out all your data and stores it in something else
22:15.12ali1234greenfly: the problem is nobody has made "something else" that actually works as good yet
22:15.14greenflyand still providing valuable advertising metrics they can use the next time you go to the search engine
22:15.25woglindehm uh seems I shouldnt install another libnl
22:15.51wirelessdreamerwoglinde: where'd you grab iw from?
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22:16.19greenflyali1234: again, they don't seem to care too much about most of that since it doesn't impact their bottom line
22:16.19woglindewirelessdreamer compiled mysel
22:16.20woglindef
22:16.29woglindehm hm
22:16.30jebbaare foo@jabber.org and jebba@jabber.org *voice* calls using IAX2/jingle?
22:16.56Robot101iax2 is nothing to do with jingle
22:16.57*** join/#maemo andrei1089 (n=andrei10@81.18.92.10)
22:17.04ali1234greenfly: they do care about it, that's why they make their core business around staying ahead of the competition, rather than trying to lock in customers
22:17.11go1dfishgreenfly: not arguing you on privacy concerns, but in general... (gv excluded)...
22:17.14greenflybut I'd still argue if you use google calendar, google voice, google reader, gmail etc and spend most of your time and store most of your data on google servers, you are going to get the best portable device experience out of a google phone
22:17.15Robot101if you make voice calls over XMPP, that's using jingle or gtalk, depending what client the other end uses
22:17.20go1dfishimproving support for most google services inmproves support overall
22:17.38go1dfishjabber, imap idle, etc...
22:17.44ali1234greenfly: nobody is arguing against that :)
22:17.55ali1234greenfly: that's a reason why people might want android on N900
22:17.58greenflyali1234: then I'm unclear what we /are/ arguing about
22:18.12greenflyali1234: why wouldn't someone just get a droid?
22:18.25ali1234greenfly: because N900 has a more open kernel
22:18.28greenflyabout the same hardware, only running android, plus with a nice subsidy from the mobile carrier
22:18.29go1dfishwell for one, droid is cdma only
22:18.30wirelessdreamergreenfly: n900 has the best emu support ;)
22:18.34ifreqthinks not all want to google monitor every step you do within phone/services you use
22:18.36jebbaRobot101: i thought jingle was iax2ish
22:18.37ali1234greenfly: or because the droid has a crap camera
22:18.37greenflyali1234: not once you install android
22:18.40jebbaanyway thx
22:18.41go1dfishand n900 has the most flexible OS
22:18.55ali1234greenfly: that makes no sense
22:19.03greenflyagain, all the things you are listing (apart I guess from the phone, I didn't know the droid phone sucked) goes away when you install android
22:19.07ali1234greenfly: once you install android... you'll be running the same kernel
22:19.14go1dfishgoogle has enough market penetration overall re email, that nokia will have bottom line impacts even though they don't control the services
22:19.14greenflyer, not droid phone, droid camera
22:19.22go1dfishapple only services, that doesn't apply as much
22:19.24leon-one thing that is really irritating, the desktop has no snapping so that stuff could be aligned nicely there
22:19.24greenflyali1234: how's that? android has its own kernel
22:19.29ali1234greenfly: wrong
22:19.39ali1234greenfly: android kernel patches are all available
22:19.45ali1234greenfly: some of them are even in staging
22:19.54Robot101jebba: no, there's nothing to do with iax in jingle. jingle does xmpp signalling and uses rtp for media and ice for nat traversal
22:20.05ali1234greenfly: what's missing is the binary drivers used by HTC android phones
22:20.08go1dfishI'd like to be able to run android in a chroot in maemo tbh
22:20.11ali1234greenfly: but, you don't need those on N900
22:20.16go1dfishjust for the hell of it more than anything else
22:20.32go1dfishI wouldn't want to run android as my primary os though
22:20.41greenflygo1dfish: I could see that as a really interesting use
22:20.46woglindeargs that was not good
22:20.59greenflyespecially if you could just abstract away the OS part and run chrooted apps
22:21.12jebbaRobot101: nice. thx.  Sure works well doing @jabber.org to @jabber.org voice calls  :)
22:21.23Robot101jebba: :D
22:21.26jebbaRobot101: you happen to know much about ofono?
22:21.45greenflyali1234: http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/How-Much-Linux-Is-in-Android
22:21.50Robot101jebba: we hacked on it a bit to integrate it with telepathy, but it was kinda immature and hard for us to work with / test, so its on the back burner for the moment
22:21.58jebbai have it built and running on N900 under fedora 12, but i need a modem.config but I don't know which /dev/foo or what to point at.
22:22.01woglindeseems I need to fool the package db
22:22.08Robot101jebba: it doesn't support the nokia h/w yet
22:22.16*** join/#maemo MohammadAG (n=Mohammad@62.219.120.20)
22:22.21ali1234greenfly: that article is second hand nonsense
22:22.27jebbai thought they had some bits for isimodem
22:22.35greenflyali1234: follow the links to the first-hand account then
22:22.36Robot101jebba: yeah, nowhere near ready aiui
22:22.41jebbai beat it and threateeneded it, but they wouldnt talk hehe
22:22.49jebbaah drats.
22:23.01jebbai thought it was closer, just no where near ready for primetime
22:23.09ali1234greenfly: further more, they're not even talking about the kernel
22:23.20ali1234android is not linux at all
22:23.20jebbabecaiuse isimodem seems to have quite a bit to it  (i was using latest git=
22:23.28ali1234any more than X windows is linux
22:23.29simula_heh
22:23.31ali1234or busybox is linux
22:23.39greenflyheh are we going to dust off that argument?
22:23.48greenflywhether Linux is just the kernel or the overall system
22:23.52ali1234greenfly: nope, because i'm not going to rise to it
22:23.54greenflywe should call in RMS while we are at it
22:24.00greenflyhe'll have an opinion on that one
22:24.11ali1234greenfly: anyhow, the point is, android does not need any closed kernel patches to run
22:24.33pupnik_In soviet USA, you do not own an Android phone, it OWNS YOU!
22:24.36jebbaRobot101: since you seem to know all this. What about a telepathy-iax2?  That would rule  :)
22:25.12greenflyali1234: it sounds like that's less important than the hard-coding in things like the hot-plugging interfaces and the rest of the userspace
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22:25.24ifreqpupnik_: thought 1st you ment google :P
22:25.42ali1234greenfly: yes, well, it might be hard coded, but the source code is available
22:25.54Slasheriis now quite happy, after install debian in chroot from scratch with deboostrap and configured shortcuts to automatically load nice command line environment :)
22:26.12greenflyali1234: anyway, my point was that once you did install android, you would (unless you figured out some chroot or partitioning scheme) be overwriting maemo
22:26.21ali1234greenfly: so what?
22:26.28ali1234greenfly: you can flash it back any time you want
22:26.41ali1234greenfly: or you could fix the maemo bootloader to allow dual boot
22:26.43greenflyali1234: so, at the time earlier in this conversation, everyone seemed to be touting that you'd still have all the advantages of maemo
22:26.50greenflywhich you wouldn't, unless you flashed it back
22:27.12ali1234you could easily dual boot
22:27.12greenflysure would be fun to reboot my n900 every time I wanted to use google navigation or gmail
22:27.12GeneralAntillesX-Fade, ping?
22:27.26Robot101jebba: nobody really pushing for that - you could do it, but...
22:27.36greenflythen reboot again when I wanted to run anything not written in java
22:27.36*** join/#maemo user__ (n=user@p4FF6AAC7.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:28.02ali1234greenfly: also you can install debian on top of android, including X windows
22:28.04go1dfishali1234: I know the zaurus was one of the first machines to get android running on it publicly
22:28.10go1dfishusing the chroot approach
22:28.18go1dfishbefore there were any  devices officially anounced
22:28.35greenflyI think the chroot approach would be the most compelling way
22:28.43ali1234yeah, well, there's no reason why not
22:28.44greenflysince the n900 doesn't exactly boot quickly
22:28.55go1dfishhttp://www.omegamoon.com/blog/static.php?page=ZaurusAndroid
22:28.56pupnik_i think google can chew on a dog log
22:29.01greenflyespecially if you could abstract away most of the environment and just get to the java runtime engine
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22:29.05ali1234go1dfish: android runs on everything these days
22:29.27greenflybut honestly, that would only be interesting so you could run a few choice android apps
22:29.32greenflykinda like wine for linux
22:29.43greenflybut then, that's just me
22:29.52ifreqwhats wrong with portin sw instead of emulation?
22:30.08greenflyifreq: it wouldn't exactly be emulation
22:30.09ali1234ifreq: it isn't porting if you just port dalvik
22:30.14greenflysince you'd just be porting the java environment
22:30.15ali1234?
22:30.16jebbaRobot101: well, i dont think *I* could do it. I could push for it though.  ;)   Was talking to the maintainer of asterisk in debian about it too a couple weeks back. I guess everyone is too silent that wants it.  Because the SIP thing is always a problem with firewalls.
22:30.17go1dfishgreenfly: and just another way to show the extreme flexibility of maemo vs other devices
22:30.21greenflythe apps would be running natively, in a sense
22:30.25go1dfishoh you like android? yeah I can do that to :P
22:30.25greenflygo1dfish: indeed
22:30.52Robot101jebba: we tend to push for Jingle support to deal with firewalls, because it uses ICE
22:30.52ali1234you might even be able to run both at the same time through kvm
22:30.57ali1234if they ever fixed it for arm
22:31.35ali1234personally i don't think even maemo is open enough
22:31.40ali1234i say roll on ofono and mer
22:31.41pupnik_robot101 tell us more about this jingle support.  requires a service, no?
22:31.55greenflyeh, allegedly since the android apps are just java (a proprietary java but all the same) you might just have to port that runtime environment
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22:32.03greenflyplus whatever hooks you'd need for it to recognize the hardware
22:32.06go1dfishali1234: it could be better, it's the best at the moment, and enough for me
22:32.11wirelessdreameranyone know how to remap the camera buttons functions when not in camera mode?
22:32.18go1dfishthe parts that arent open are at least exposed through open apis
22:32.22Robot101pupnik_: it requires any XMPP server, otherwise its basically peer to peer
22:32.24greenflywirelessdreamer: there are a few apps in extras that do it that you could reference
22:32.30go1dfishwhen it impeded my flexibility I'll be angry
22:32.33go1dfishso far it hasn't
22:32.46Robot101pupnik_: if you're doing PBX stuff, then asterisk and freeswitch have gtalk or jingle modules which let you do that
22:32.58jebbaRobot101: i packaged asterisk for n900  ;)
22:32.59wirelessdreamergreenfly: can you offer any of their names? :)
22:33.00woglindewirlessdreamer hm cloning interface and monitoring works
22:33.05*** join/#maemo mkargar (n=mkargar@94.74.140.236)
22:33.07pupnik_ty Robot101
22:33.12wirelessdreamerwoglinde: nice :) what commands did you use?
22:33.13ali1234go1dfish: hmm actually it really isn't about open/closed, more about the broken package management and dev environments
22:33.15woglindeiw
22:33.20ali1234but that's a completely different argument
22:33.21woglindeand tcpdump
22:33.26wirelessdreamerwith what args, i've never used iw before
22:33.28wirelessdreameronly iwconfig
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22:33.40zashRobot101: how well does jingle work (on maemo/n900)? (me beeing a xmpp geek)
22:33.51jebbazash: works great. I was just using it.
22:33.56woglindeiw wlan0 add interface wlanfoo type monitor
22:33.56greenflywirelessdreamer: camkeyd
22:34.02wirelessdreamergreenfly: thanks
22:34.05greenflynp
22:34.09woglindewirelessdreamer problem is libnl
22:34.10Robot101zash: amazingly well? we were the first jingle implementation, shipped on the N800
22:34.20jebbawe did @gmail to @jabber and two @jabber to @jabber and it worked really well. zash.
22:34.27woglindeseems not available on sdk, but there is one in the rootfs
22:34.27wirelessdreamerwoglinde: that takes over the wifi control?
22:34.33zashawesome
22:34.37woglindewith diffreent version
22:34.47woglindeI installed it and some other apps complained
22:34.52woglindeabout the to high version
22:34.55Robot101zash: now we speak 5 jingle dialects, the draft from 3 years ago, current jingle drafts, gtalk from 4 years ago, gtalk from 2 years ago, and google video (which is, ironically, a fork of their 4yo protocol)
22:34.58go1dfishbroken package management? I happen to quite like apt/deb
22:34.58pupnik_thanks Robot101
22:35.01woglindeI had to fake the status file
22:35.09go1dfishif you're referring to the filesystem layout though...
22:35.12go1dfishno argument here
22:35.13jebbaRobot101: what's the scoop with video calls then?
22:35.22woglindegoldfish no was my failure
22:35.23ali1234go1dfish: yeah i like it too, when it is used as intended
22:35.43Robot101jebba: I can't say anything unless/until our finnish friends do, sorry
22:35.51woglindebut n900 seems to work with libnl 1.1.5 anyway
22:36.00woglindeI will see after next reboot
22:36.06ali1234go1dfish: /opt is one issue, inability to update libs in a sane way is another
22:36.07*** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@nat/ibm/x-oihzbbovoijvmbnr)
22:36.24pupnik_libs are also a security concern
22:36.41woglindewirelessdreamer there is more work need to get iw into extras-devel
22:36.44pupnik_both wrt nokia and community access
22:36.45jebbaRobot101: who/where you work for if at all, if you dont mind me askin?
22:36.46woglindewhich I have no time for
22:36.52*** join/#maemo b-man17 (n=b-man17@pool-98-108-28-68.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net)
22:36.56Robot101jebba: www.collabora.co.uk
22:37.03go1dfishali1234: hmm havent heard about lib update issues
22:37.12go1dfishcan you elaborate?
22:37.17ali1234go1dfish: it has been discussed to death on the ML and here
22:37.25ali1234go1dfish: any time anyone mentions it, it starts a flame war
22:37.33Robot101jebba: we work on telepathy, gstreamer, hildon-desktop, clutter, X, etc on maemo
22:37.36go1dfishah ok, I only recently joined the ML
22:38.24go1dfishRobot101: would it be possible to use gstreamer to transcode videos on the dsp?
22:38.27ali1234go1dfish: basically because libs do not have a user/* section, HAM doesn't offer updates unless a user facing package has it as "required"
22:38.34go1dfishafter recording
22:39.10ali1234go1dfish: so consider for example games that uses ogre3d. ogre3d uses libfreeimage
22:39.13go1dfishah, unless a user facing package has it required at a certain version you mean?
22:39.34ali1234go1dfish: say i package ogre3d libs and freeimage, then 10 people package their favorite ogre3d game
22:39.35Robot101go1dfish: transcode to what? not sure what encoders there are released for the DSP atm
22:39.40go1dfishif so you can stop before devolving into a flame war, I think I get the implications
22:39.44ali1234go1dfish: now i find a security bug in libfreeimage
22:39.50go1dfishRobot101: h264
22:39.57go1dfishuse case would be recording a video...
22:40.01go1dfishon the n900
22:40.10go1dfishand transcoding it on the device, potentially resizing
22:40.25go1dfishfor quicker upload, to a site for streaming to flash plugin
22:40.26ali1234go1dfish: now all 10 people have to bump the version on their games, i have to bump the version on ogre3d libs (= possibley hundreds of megs of updates) otherwise HAM wont show the freeimage update
22:41.07go1dfishali1234: got it
22:42.10acidjazzthis phone sucks
22:42.23acidjazzwhen is the update
22:42.33acidjazznotifications close/hide the top widget menu
22:42.44ljphmm.. I thought it was pretty good..
22:42.46acidjazzso while you get flooded w/ notifications trying to pull it up it keeps going away
22:43.05acidjazzalot of window closing and window switching is becoming non-responsive
22:43.06*** join/#maemo kamui__ (n=KamN900@ip68-11-94-155.no.no.cox.net)
22:43.08Robot101acidjazz: known issue, I think its going to be fixed soon
22:43.13acidjazzso whens the update
22:43.21acidjazzphone launched a while ago now
22:43.24Robot101also the getting less responsive in the WM
22:43.27*** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=Slonopot@80.90.124.131)
22:43.32acidjazzWM?
22:43.37Robot101window manager
22:43.50Robot101the thing that does the switching and closing and stuff :)
22:43.54acidjazzright yea
22:43.55acidjazzhildone
22:43.57acidjazzwhat about it
22:44.33moo-_-acidjazz: if you want to have a phone which sucks, try OpenMoko!!
22:45.22acidjazzopenmoko didnt cost us $600 and get backed by the largest phone company in the world
22:45.26ljpopenmoko was good with qtopia
22:45.52ljp'cept that large bevel around the screen
22:46.25moo-_-acidjazz: well fair enough :)
22:46.50ali1234why did the openmoko phone have a hole in it, like a soap on a rope?
22:46.55woglindeopenmoko is not a phone
22:47.01pupnik_gor showering?
22:47.02ali1234i know
22:47.06woglindeother wise apple is computer
22:47.06ali1234i just forgot what it was called
22:47.09acidjazzso is there any ETA of a patch? updates?
22:47.21ifreqacidjazz: for neck strap?
22:47.21woglindechoose btw fta01 or fta02
22:47.22Pavlovwhere is the oprofile kernel for fremantle?
22:47.26ifreqerr ali1234 *
22:47.28acidjazzi got this huge expensive brick im waiting to be a real smartphone
22:47.29ali1234woglinde: the one with the hole in it
22:47.31acidjazzcan someone in here tell me when taht is
22:47.38woglindefreerunner
22:47.40woglindefta02
22:47.42Robot101acidjazz: anyone in here who knows can't tell you. sorry.
22:47.51ali1234so, why did the freerunner have that hole in it then?
22:47.56acidjazzim glad to see omweather is on to pof their widget
22:48.02acidjazzsince its getting more love and dev time then the damn phone
22:48.07acidjazzon top*
22:48.28woglindeali because the chassi come from another project
22:48.41woglindeand make a form cost much money
22:49.00ali1234woglinde: hmm really? i'd like to know more. got links?
22:49.18woglindethat was some rumor I heard
22:49.20woglindeno links
22:49.20moo-_-woglinde: bu it could have shipped with a bag of lego bricks? made your own form, nerd, damnit? :)
22:49.31woglindemoo lol
22:49.31moo-_-ali1234: talk.maemoorg
22:49.52woglindeI am pissed now about libnl situation
22:50.47moo-_-ali1234: sorry wrong nick
22:51.20acidjazzthe only maemo update ive gotten in weeks is the TouchSearch appnow allows me to press the return key to intiiate the search
22:51.30acidjazzis maemo abandoned?
22:51.43ifreqacidjazz: stop whining or change camp please?
22:51.44greenflyacidjazz: once you get past 15 complaints in an hour you get a special prize
22:51.46acidjazzdid nokia move all their developers back to s60v5  ?
22:51.50ifreqall ive read on backlog is huge whining
22:51.52greenflyalmost there
22:52.02acidjazzi dont mean to whine
22:52.13ljpacidjazz: no
22:52.17greenflyhow can you accidentally do nothing but whine for the last 15 mins?
22:52.19go1dfishacidjazz: not abandoned, but not as mature as other smartphone OS's though
22:52.23ljpsome work on many platforms
22:52.49greenflyyou are an early adopter of a new device with a new software platform that you expect to be bug free
22:52.59greenflyseems a bit unreasonable
22:53.03ali1234maemo isn't exactly new
22:53.14go1dfishali1234: the phone part is
22:53.15greenflyeither be willing to put up with a few bugs or don't be an early adopter
22:53.19greenflymaemo 5 is
22:53.25ali1234and maemo 6 will be again
22:53.39go1dfishthe os is quite decent as a computer/tablet
22:53.41greenflyany time I try a x.0 release of a piece of software (if I do) I expect some bugs
22:53.43go1dfishbut mediocre as a phone
22:54.01acidjazzi love how two of the app catalogs are down now too
22:54.03go1dfishI hate talking on the phone anyway, so it works out well for me, but isn't the perfect device for everyone
22:54.05greenflywhich, there has only been one production release of the firmware to date that I know of
22:54.17ali1234maybe they should move to a more ... incremental development model. you know, one where they release updates for the existing software, rather than just rewriting it from scratch every 2 years
22:54.27acidjazzgreenfly: lol a few? also im not complaining that they exist im complaining about the progress
22:54.40*** join/#maemo felipec (n=felipec@a91-153-253-80.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
22:54.50greenflyacidjazz: the problem is that there are a few hundred more people just like you out there
22:54.56ljpi think it works quite well as a phone
22:54.57greenflyacidjazz: but they have different bugs that they are complaining about
22:55.09greenflyacidjazz: since you are just complaining in here, nothing will be done about yours
22:55.12*** join/#maemo GAN900 (n=ryan@Maemo/community/contributor/GeneralAntilles)
22:55.14go1dfishali1234: thats the plan for 6
22:55.22acidjazzwhats the eta for 6
22:55.25greenflyand the people who are filing and following quality bug reports will likely get priority over you
22:55.29go1dfishMaemo and the tablets have largely been R&D for nokia
22:56.16ali1234true
22:57.45acidjazzis there any ETA for 6?
22:57.58greenflyyear or two from now, right?
22:58.15greenflyI'm assuming it will arrive alongside a new nokia tablet product
22:58.19acidjazzoh sweet ill just wait
22:58.40greenflyacidjazz: beware, as it'll be a .0 release when it first comes out, there might be bugs
22:58.50acidjazzor just start using http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/n900fly/ Uses the accelerometer to measure how high you can throw your n900
22:59.02*** join/#maemo corecode_ (n=corecode@chlamydia.fs.ei.tum.de)
22:59.11*** join/#maemo jospoortvliet (n=supersto@5350F312.static.ziggozakelijk.nl)
22:59.15acidjazzgreenfly: makes perfect sence given they only have 1 year
22:59.18acidjazzsense*
22:59.27greenflyacidjazz: it's still new enough that if you don't like it, you should still be able to get a good price for it used
22:59.45acidjazzi guess ill just have to order a nexus
23:00.01greenflythere we go. now the complaint circle is complete
23:00.02acidjazzso i can have a phone that works until 6 comes out
23:00.17greenflythe bug report isn't done until the ultimatum is stated
23:00.37valdyni love channels where trolls are booted once that is obvious
23:00.47acidjazzim not trying to troll or complain or be annyoing
23:00.51greenflyhah
23:01.01SplasPoodhrm.. would anyone be willing to tell me how much free space they have on / (on the N900)
23:01.17ali1234SplasPood: 47mb
23:01.21Caesium63MB
23:01.30SplasPoodok well thats def my problem then
23:01.32SplasPoodI have 9.
23:01.38greenflyI have 14 or so right now
23:01.38SpeedEvil28
23:01.41SplasPoodAny thoughts as to wtf
23:01.41acidjazzive been using nokia phones forever and ive been waiting months for the n900 and from day one ive never seen so many issues compared to any closely flagship-type phone theyve launched
23:01.54greenflyit'll reduce eventually, then when I reboot I'll go up to around 20-some
23:01.57sp300056
23:01.58valdynSplasPood: you installed apps / packages that are not optified?
23:02.08pupnik_you've never seen a linux community go to town on a phone, i'll bet acidjazz
23:02.15SplasPoodvaldyn: did I?  not even certain what that means so it's entirely possible I guess
23:02.23ali1234i've never owned a phone that worked properly
23:02.30ali1234all phones, indeed all computers, have bugs
23:02.36valdynSplasPood: i think extras-devel / extras-testing stuff might be condidates
23:02.38ali1234and IT wonders why they get no respect
23:02.39greenflyI gotta head home, so someone else please keep the troll fed while I'm away
23:02.40go1dfishI've been sitting at 14mb free for weeks
23:02.46SplasPoodvaldyn: heh, well then yes, certainly
23:02.57ifreqgreenfly: too tired :(
23:03.04acidjazzali1234: i agree and accept that
23:03.08corecode_what do i have to do to feed it?
23:03.21valdynSplasPood: optified = installs into /opt, where there is plenty free space
23:03.28ifreqcorecode_: fill lines with troll nick included
23:03.35acidjazzbut w/ like s60v5 nokia had updates w/in weeks
23:03.37SplasPoodvaldyn: ahhh now 'optified' is very clear ;)
23:03.39acidjazzthey were on it constantly
23:03.50SplasPoodcorecode_: iphones
23:04.04corecode_ifreq: oh that sounds easy
23:04.09*** join/#maemo w00t (n=w00t@freenode/podcast/presenter/w00t)
23:05.13valdynacidjazz: for all i know, s60 is their bread and butter OS, not a niche as maemo
23:05.31ali1234i bet s60 still has many glaring bugs though
23:05.35ali1234even after patching
23:05.35corecode_so what's the problem?
23:05.38Robot101valdyn: NOS is their bread and butter OS :P
23:05.54valdynRobot101: NOS = ?
23:05.55leon-blah blah blah :)
23:05.57corecode_my e51 still can't connect to WPA2/PEAP
23:06.01Robot101nokia 1108 is their highest volume phone :P
23:06.01SplasPooduninstalls all the ruby crap he was playing with.
23:06.14Robot101valdyn: NOS, the kernel under Series 30 and Series 40
23:06.19SplasPoodfreed up 9MB
23:06.27valdynRobot101: i see, i do like those phones , actually
23:06.38valdyncheap, throwable
23:06.42acidjazzvaldyn: you dotn take a niche os and hyp/release a phone like this though :)
23:06.55ali1234acidjazz: nokia didn't hype n900 at all
23:06.59corecode_acidjazz: what's your complaint?
23:07.26acidjazzcorecode_: just the updates/support for maemo and flaws w/ the phone
23:07.43acidjazzi would expect some kind of progressal update by now given the amt of time the phones been out
23:07.44go1dfishali1234: exactly, the hype was mostly community generated
23:07.53corecode_acidjazz: what's the issue exactly?
23:07.56go1dfishbecause it is an awesome device
23:08.00go1dfishjust not such a great phone
23:08.01acidjazzcorecode_: not complaining about hte actual bugs .. just the lack of progress
23:08.02ali1234acidjazz: watch the keynote from nokia world, they talk about the new n97 for 55 minutes and n900 appears in one slide
23:08.19acidjazzali1234: that kills me cuz i have the n97
23:08.28acidjazzand the concept of maemo is way better than symbian
23:08.33corecode_acidjazz: in my  experience nokia always was unbelievably slow
23:08.44acidjazzwell w/ ali1234's point theyre not
23:08.47go1dfishbut linux geeks aren't exactly widely regarded for their social skills, so the lack of advanced phone functionality isn't a big deal for those most excited about maemo
23:09.05go1dfishcorecode_: all big corps are incredibly slow
23:09.19corecode_go1dfish: i know
23:09.24SpeedEvilThe entity I get most SMSs from is paypal, the second is my bank.
23:09.36SpeedEvilI've made one 3 minute call in the past 2 months.
23:09.42go1dfishgoogle is able to achieve a small modicum of speed through subdivision into small teams, and aloting a percentage of time to free-ish experimentation
23:09.46ali1234i receive about 5 phone calls a month, and make about 2
23:09.52corecode_paypal sends text messages?
23:10.08ali1234otoh my gmail sees about 100 not-spam emails a day
23:10.37acidjazzhttp://www.octofish.net/bugjar/2010/01/maemo-official-platform-bug-ja-56.html
23:10.52SplasPoodhrm.. octofish.. why do I know that name...
23:11.00acidjazzso whats hte process of these getting fixed and a patch/update released
23:11.15valdynacidjazz: check the bts
23:11.37go1dfishacidjazz: bug nokia through appropriate channels, and wait, or develop our own alternatives to affected applications
23:11.58acidjazzgo1dfish: i have been
23:12.09acidjazzvaldyn: whats bts?
23:12.14go1dfishso you've been filing bug reports in bugzilla?
23:12.33acidjazzno .. bugging nokia through appropriate channels
23:12.42acidjazzi just came in here to get your guys' opinion as well
23:12.53sp3000see "fixed"?
23:13.05corecode_what's the appropriate channel?
23:13.08sp3000as for releasing, shruggery
23:13.11corecode_i thought that was bugzilla
23:13.12pupnik_why does debian build want to compile my sound and graphics resources
23:13.31*** join/#maemo TomaszD (n=tom@unaffiliated/tomaszd)
23:13.31go1dfishok just wanted to clarify that this is not an appropriate channel to bug nokia :) anyone here from nokia is here at least partially due to their own volition.  so dont drive them off :)
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23:14.13pupnik_<PROTECTED>
23:14.18pupnik_This log records what I did to get my Maemo packages built. I thought it would be a weekend's work. It was actually over a week, and not a fun week either.
23:14.31*** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=Valerio@Maemo/community/council/VDVsx)
23:14.31valdynacidjazz: bug tracking system, at http://bugzilla.maemo.org
23:14.44corecode_pupnik_: haha
23:14.55corecode_new servers are necessary it seems
23:15.32pupnik_http://mat.exon.name/logs/maemo   << source
23:15.48ljpacidjazz: the way to get things fixed is to file bug reports. they so get looked at
23:16.09ljpi mean they do get looked at
23:17.11acidjazzljp; i understand that and i see that happening, i just want to see the fixes on our phones :)
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23:18.37woglindehm google nexus
23:18.47acidjazzyea android 2.1
23:18.55acidjazz1gz cpu
23:18.56woglindewith maemo5
23:18.57woglindejheheheee
23:19.01acidjazzyarite
23:19.04woglindeor mer
23:19.08acidjazzhow about android 2.1 on the maemo?
23:19.10go1dfishno keyboard, no deal (IMO)
23:19.19acidjazzerr android 2.1 on the n900?
23:19.32ShadowJKacidjazz: what's that in MIPS though ;p
23:19.33acidjazzany word of google maps for maemo?
23:19.34woglindeacidjazz no fun
23:19.43woglindewhy googlemaps?
23:19.57woglindeI am working on navit
23:20.02acidjazzcuz google maps > *
23:20.06acidjazzand ovi maps is a ridiculous joke
23:20.07woglindebut time is limited
23:20.30go1dfishacidjazz: maemaps
23:20.43acidjazzlol that web site?
23:20.45acidjazzthat doesnt work?
23:20.51acidjazzsigh
23:20.51go1dfishI havent tried it
23:21.04acidjazzhttp://tomch.com/maemaps.html
23:21.28go1dfishovi maps sucks
23:21.36go1dfishbut it's been enough for my purposes lately
23:21.50go1dfishbut yeah, it blows chunks, in more ways than I care to count
23:21.56acidjazzenough? by the time it loads im lost
23:22.09acidjazzby the time gps works the batterys dead
23:22.18acidjazz2-3 second delay on each keystroke
23:22.41ali1234ovimaps would not pass extras testing requirements imho
23:22.53ali1234unless of course they have changed them again
23:23.00GeneralAntillesWoo, contractors!
23:23.03go1dfishheh I would hope not
23:23.09go1dfishbreaks ui consistency
23:23.18go1dfishno onscreen keyboard support
23:23.25woglindegenaral where?
23:23.48GeneralAntilleswoglinde, Ovi Maps.
23:24.14woglindegan yeah navteq
23:24.21GeneralAntilleswoglinde, nah, not Navteq
23:24.24GeneralAntillesSomebody else.
23:25.10woglindehm okay cards are from navteq
23:25.26GeneralAntillesRight, but somebody else did the application.
23:27.00ShadowJKthe actual map seems more detailed than google maps, but the POI are less, and the program is nearly unusable :p
23:27.15jebbamy noob friend: "i tried to vote but had a hell of a time with the website not loading."  I'm sure he'll be back!
23:28.38pupnik_it may require more than a server upgrade to improve responsiveness
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23:32.47jebbaI finally got a simple app into extras. It's comical how much fkn around it took.
23:32.51TomaszDI just an electronic compass with an altimeter for 13 eur
23:33.05TomaszDjebba, which one?
23:33.12woglindetoamsz nexus has compass
23:33.25jebbaTomaszD: burgerspace.  it's the killer app of the n900  ;)
23:33.31woglindejebba *g*
23:34.15TomaszDI won't be carrying around an expensive phone onboard as a co-pilot during a rally...
23:34.19jebbai've done quite a few more, but i'm not even sure at this point what is built and i'm not going to agonize for the next few hours just trying to get the package descriptions to load.  There also doesnt appear to be a way to search for packages by maintainer, which would be real handy.
23:34.22jon1012I can't play those games on my n900 :(
23:34.47jebbajon1012: what games?
23:34.59jon1012burgerspace for example
23:34.59jebbawhy?
23:34.59jon1012I have a french keyboard
23:35.07jon1012and I don't want to change key layout
23:35.10jebbaah, but i did a UHKM keymapt too for it  :)
23:35.14jebbaand arrows.
23:35.18jon1012cool !
23:35.29jon1012uhkm ?
23:35.44ali1234not wasd?
23:35.49jebbaU=up   H=left  K=right M=down
23:35.52pupnik_see duke nukem source for changing keyboard map at start of game
23:35.54jebbaspace = pepper
23:35.58pupnik_ukki solved the games problem
23:36.04jon1012on french keyboard it would be uhjk
23:36.18jon1012or UHKJ
23:36.39jebbaya, but M is better than J on n900 IMHO
23:36.46jebbacuz the keys are so small
23:36.46jon1012jebba: thing is
23:36.50jon1012for me it's ","
23:36.52jon1012not M
23:36.55jon1012:)
23:37.06jon1012AZERTY not QWERTY...
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23:37.45jebbajon1012:  you know of a foto of french N900 keyboard?  I used a french keyboard on a mac TI forever ago...
23:38.07jon1012uhkm => unusable on azerty (just like wasd anyway)
23:38.19jebbahttp://img709.imageshack.us/img709/1725/n900phonehouse.jpg  like that?
23:38.20jon1012jebba: I could take one
23:38.30pupnikrm -R debian/
23:38.31jon1012no
23:38.38jon1012my keyboard isn't like that
23:38.50jebbaah, that is awerty though
23:39.04jon1012it's some strange azerty with the m in place of the ,
23:39.13jon1012which isn't french azerty
23:39.22jon1012(I guess it's some photoshopping for the ad)
23:39.42jebbawell that blows. Too bad no french testers ;)
23:39.51jon1012I don't have the arrows anyway
23:39.58jebbathey dont like hamburgers anyway, so i think it's safe  ;)
23:40.00jon1012I have left / right with FN for up / down
23:40.08jon1012I'm french :)
23:40.18jebbai'm still looking for a foto
23:40.24jon1012I'll take one
23:41.37jon1012ok done let me upload it
23:42.11jebbacool!
23:42.57ShadowJKat some point it starts making sense to map to scancodes instead of mapping to symbols keys produce...
23:44.06ali1234who wanted to disable watchdog?
23:44.18jebbahmm, well i guess i won't be promoting pidgin-otr gah
23:44.23ali1234the kernel source shows how to do it
23:44.28jebbaali1234: everyone?
23:44.39ali1234__raw_writel(0xAAAA, base + OMAP_WATCHDOG_SPR);
23:44.40jebbayou can do it in r&d, but that comes with pribbs
23:44.43ali1234__raw_writel(0x5555, base + OMAP_WATCHDOG_SPR);
23:44.52ali1234just make a python script to do it thru /dev/mem
23:44.55ali1234no mo watchdog
23:45.11jebbaya, but will the hardware reset *without* a watchdog?
23:45.18ali1234no
23:45.39jebbaali1234: let Stskeeps know in Mer
23:45.49jebbabecause Mer has to run in R&D mode or it reboots (!)
23:45.55*** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
23:46.02jon1012jebba: http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/4999/mg4113.jpg
23:46.06ali1234why don't they just disable the watchdog in their kernel?
23:46.08jon1012this is the picture of my n900
23:46.08jebbathx jon1012
23:46.08ShadowJKno kicker available?
23:46.36ml-mobilethe automatic brightness control on this thing is flaky
23:46.40jebbawow. ok, ya, that's too bad. Hrumph. I thought i had that solved.
23:49.14*** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk)
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23:51.34*** join/#maemo Noma (i=arponen@xob.kapsi.fi)
23:52.11Nomacan anyone tell me if there is a way to get maemo-select-menu-location -package to n900 anymore? it seems to be removed from repos
23:52.25|Rml-mobile: yeah, instead of checking every 5 seconds and going all on or all off... it should every second drop or raise a step :)
23:52.36ShadowJKit's not relevant on n900
23:52.40|RIt would be a lot more progressive and easier on the eyes!
23:52.59jebbajon1012: man, WASD doesnt work for you either. Hmm. Well, thx for letting me know. I noted it here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7689
23:53.00GeneralAntillesNoma, removed from Fremantle.
23:53.00povbot`Bug 7689: Keymap: HUKM and arrows aren't good enough for the French
23:53.06NomaShadowJK: wiicontrol wouldn't install without it
23:53.13GeneralAntillesNoma, the menu is just going to be flat with PR1.2
23:53.18GeneralAntillesNoma, put a dummy binary in.
23:53.22GeneralAntillesEr, script.
23:53.29Nomahow do i do that?:)
23:53.39jebbaali1234: not sure. Perhaps they will disable watchdog in kernel. I'll probably try that sometime, but not for a couple weeks
23:54.02GeneralAntillesNoma, touch /usr/local/bin/
23:54.04GeneralAntilleser
23:54.12GeneralAntillesNoma, touch /usr/local/bin/maemo-select-menu-location
23:54.21*** join/#maemo BBNS_ (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
23:54.34Nomalet's try :)
23:55.14ShadowJKdo atleast all n900 have the same amount of physical keys? all the same size? mapping it tp physical keys would be cleverer... and could even work once/if devices for noh-latin scripts come out :P
23:55.22Nomadpkg: regarding wiicontrol-1.0_all.deb containing wiicontrol, pre-dependency problem: wiicontrol pre-depends on maemo-select-menu-location
23:55.25Nomastill getting that
23:56.12TomaszDNoma, where are you getting this wiicontrol app from?
23:56.19TomaszDthe one in the repository works fine
23:56.27luke-jrShadowJK: google images is your friend ;)
23:56.32Nomai got a .deb somewhere
23:56.50Nomawhat repository is it included?
23:56.50TomaszDNoma, didn't you think it would be better to actually search in the application manager first?
23:56.51ShadowJKdude don't do that
23:56.54Nomai did
23:57.06ml-mobilegrabbing random .debs is not a good idea
23:57.06timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: doesn't it need to be executable?
23:57.27Nomathe .deb was from maemo talk forums' wiimote-thread
23:57.27timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: i've got a string problem for you :)
23:57.40ShadowJKit was for maemo4 probably
23:57.44TomaszDNoma, wiicontrol is in extras-devel
23:58.24Nomayep, i found it now. my extras-devel wasn't working through the graphical app manager, had to do apt-get update in the terminal
23:58.39TomaszDNoma, http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel
23:58.57Nomayep
23:59.19luke-jrponders an app that plots all participating N900 users on a map in realtime
23:59.47luke-jrwould look interesting, if nothing else XD

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