| 00:00.29 | *** join/#maemo user_ (n=user@c-24-16-132-121.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 00:00.29 | djkrikke | DocScrutinizer, you got a n900? |
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| 00:01.35 | *** join/#maemo Gadgetoid (n=user@cpc3-nrwh9-2-0-cust561.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 00:01.36 | *** join/#maemo nonversation (n=meeeeee@200-83.207-68.panhandle.res.rr.com) |
| 00:01.50 | nonversation | does the N900 run google maps |
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| 00:02.11 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 00:02.20 | SpeedEvil | In that you can use the website, but not the app |
| 00:02.36 | nonversation | what about the ovi maps/navigation? does it have free turn by turn? |
| 00:02.49 | Gadgetoid | got my n900 playing video to the output and running irc simultaneously.... frikkin awesome |
| 00:03.23 | djkrikke | nice one Gadgetoid |
| 00:03.42 | djkrikke | I'm willing to talk to someone with a n900 about the user experiences, do you have some time Gadgetoid? |
| 00:04.06 | woglinde | Gadgetoid video is dsp |
| 00:04.22 | woglinde | so there should be enough cpu-power for irc |
| 00:04.41 | Gadgetoid | so are transitions so switching apps chugs the vid |
| 00:04.45 | SpeedEvil | nonversation: no turn by turn |
| 00:05.02 | nonversation | ouch |
| 00:05.02 | SpeedEvil | Or there is turn by turn - but no voice |
| 00:05.07 | nonversation | then what is ovi maps for? |
| 00:05.11 | SpeedEvil | it will route you to a destination |
| 00:05.17 | fnordianslippers | avoiding |
| 00:05.21 | Gadgetoid | what do you want to know djkrikke? |
| 00:05.27 | nonversation | it will provide directions ? |
| 00:05.36 | nonversation | but with no voice |
| 00:05.43 | *** join/#maemo simula_n900_ (n=Mark@c-24-16-132-121.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 00:06.10 | nonversation | what about other gps programs |
| 00:06.10 | nonversation | anything out as of yet or in the works for the N900 that would do this? |
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| 00:06.55 | simula_ | wow, xchat looks really nice on the n900 |
| 00:07.06 | SpeedEvil | nonversation: not really as I understand it. |
| 00:07.40 | crashanddie_mbp | nonversation: I didn't get ovi maps to work |
| 00:07.47 | djkrikke | well, I've been reading about the n900, and my impression is that this device needs as much "maintenance" as a linux desktop computer would need. I'm coming from an iphone 3GS and like tweaking etc, but I'm wondering if the device is really usable without lots of extra tools/tweaks (for example video). How bad is it? |
| 00:07.50 | Gadgetoid | aye super smooth xchat, needs kinetic scrolling though |
| 00:07.56 | crashanddie_mbp | nonversation: it found where I was, it found my location, but then didn't tell me where to go or what to do |
| 00:08.00 | SpeedEvil | djkrikke: what do you mean 'maintainance' |
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| 00:08.10 | crashanddie_mbp | nonversation: neither on screen nor by voice -- pretty useless imho |
| 00:08.26 | SpeedEvil | djkrikke: If you mean the add-ons - at the moment - most of the non-nokia software is alpha. |
| 00:08.34 | nonversation | =/ im also reading that the N900 has 32gb but only 2gb can be used for apps? |
| 00:08.36 | SpeedEvil | djkrikke: It will get better. |
| 00:08.39 | djkrikke | I was reading about watching movies on the n900 from websites, there were literally lots of addons and scripts necessary |
| 00:08.45 | sejo | hmm looking for some cool apps to add, mhat are your favorite apps on the n900? |
| 00:08.49 | crashanddie_mbp | djkrikke: no maintenance. Turn it on, browse, call, it works. |
| 00:08.56 | Gadgetoid | djkrikke i can download videos from bittorent on the n900 using transmission |
| 00:09.00 | SpeedEvil | But as it is basically,it works. |
| 00:09.17 | crashanddie_mbp | djkrikke: if there are software updates, it'll tell you, and ask if you want to update. That's about as much maintenance as there is to it |
| 00:09.20 | Gadgetoid | and then play them with the native player |
| 00:09.24 | nonversation | do all debian apps work for it? or do they have to be ported? |
| 00:09.27 | simula_ | scripts? selecting an app from a software repository is more like it. |
| 00:09.27 | *** join/#maemo BBNS_ (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 00:09.35 | nonversation | google earth? |
| 00:09.38 | Gadgetoid | no scripts |
| 00:09.41 | djkrikke | yes, does transmission just work without debian chroot etc? |
| 00:09.53 | crashanddie_mbp | djkrikke: yes |
| 00:10.00 | ShadowJK | djkrikke, well, the difference is that whereas the iphone doesn't let you expand it to play formats it doesn't play out of the box, the N900 is expandable. The addons you see are people who want to play more formats. |
| 00:10.34 | Gadgetoid | to play video to video out whilst using irc i just did mplayer -framedrop (filename) |
| 00:10.34 | crashanddie_mbp | djkrikke: this is a non-limited platform really, you don't need to "hack" or "break" it in order to do more stuff |
| 00:10.34 | woglinde | hm where is luck when I need him |
| 00:10.41 | crashanddie_mbp | woglinde: sleeping, probably |
| 00:10.45 | nonversation | will it run google earth? |
| 00:10.49 | crashanddie_mbp | nonversation: no |
| 00:10.52 | nonversation | why? |
| 00:10.53 | ShadowJK | Out of the box it handles avi, wmv and mp4 containers with ASP (divx, xvid) and h264 baseline codecs, aac and mp3 audio and some others I forget.. |
| 00:11.00 | crashanddie_mbp | nonversation: but that's because Google didn't port it to the ARM platform |
| 00:11.01 | SpeedEvil | nonversation: It is not a PC. |
| 00:11.04 | djkrikke | I know, but for some programs chroot is still necessary. And if your pointing at the jailbreaking of the iphone, that's indeed what I'm trying to avoid :P |
| 00:11.21 | nonversation | ok so it runs debian and the only apps it can use have been ported for ARM |
| 00:11.23 | crashanddie_mbp | djkrikke: no, chroot is not necessary |
| 00:11.25 | SpeedEvil | nonversation: It will run no PC software that is supplied only in binary form, that the maker has not released a version for ARM. |
| 00:11.59 | crashanddie_mbp | nonversation: it's not really debian -- it's based off debian, but that's like saying that ubuntu is debian |
| 00:12.00 | nonversation | how well does it work as a phone? |
| 00:12.08 | ShadowJK | mind, my PC doesn't need any maintenance either.. |
| 00:12.23 | SpeedEvil | has had it for a week, and has made one call, and one text. Worked fine. |
| 00:12.34 | djkrikke | what are the limitations of the base in terms of installing other applications, like for example a kde application (amarok)? |
| 00:12.42 | Gadgetoid | haha chroot? i dont think that means what you think it does |
| 00:12.42 | nonversation | I currently have an android phone, but looking at the N900 trying to decide if its worth it for me or not |
| 00:12.45 | crashanddie_mbp | you can place calls, through SIM or Skype (over wifi or 3G), send texts, receive texts and see them in conversations -- works |
| 00:13.08 | nonversation | so its fine to carry in your pocket as a normal phone |
| 00:13.20 | Gadgetoid | djkrikke most apps need refactored to use the n900 gui |
| 00:13.36 | djkrikke | I see |
| 00:13.46 | crashanddie_mbp | djkrikke: in the past there have been full ports of very heavy applications (like thunderbird or KDE) -- the problem is that GUIs don't scale well, so they were barely usable |
| 00:13.47 | SpeedEvil | nonversation: Personally, I'd recommend it to anyone. |
| 00:14.01 | djkrikke | I understand |
| 00:14.01 | nonversation | what about root? |
| 00:14.03 | Gadgetoid | although there may be another desktop linux port to the n900 |
| 00:14.07 | nonversation | do you have root access? |
| 00:14.12 | crashanddie_mbp | nonversation: yes |
| 00:14.12 | KenYoung | nonversation, Yup |
| 00:14.17 | SpeedEvil | The software problem gets a lot easier if you say 'you can't use fingers, stylus only' |
| 00:14.28 | crashanddie_mbp | djeezus, is this noobzone? Guys, just google your questions |
| 00:14.30 | SpeedEvil | Then it's more or less just a small desktop |
| 00:14.38 | Gadgetoid | i could kina use open office on my n810 |
| 00:14.48 | nonversation | speaking of stylus , do you really have to use that on the N900? |
| 00:14.51 | ShadowJK | my eyes need more training with the 3.5" screen. On the N810 I more or less was able to see pixels. The DPI is so much higher on the N900 though :-) |
| 00:14.59 | djkrikke | lol ShadowJK |
| 00:15.01 | ShadowJK | well not "so much", but a bit.. |
| 00:15.03 | nonversation | how sensitive to touch is it compared to an android device or iphone |
| 00:15.14 | djkrikke | nonversation, it's resistive |
| 00:15.19 | KenYoung | nonversation, The stylus is very helpful in many situations. |
| 00:15.23 | ShadowJK | I don't use stylus on N900 |
| 00:15.32 | nonversation | thats good, i hate a stylus |
| 00:15.36 | Gadgetoid | text in xchat is stupidly smooth |
| 00:15.40 | ShadowJK | and I was a die-hard stylus fan.. |
| 00:15.44 | djkrikke | basically that means you have to "press" instead of touching it like on the iphone |
| 00:15.49 | KenYoung | I use the stylus a lot with the browser, to make sure I click the correct linkgs. |
| 00:16.02 | ShadowJK | I just doubletap to zoom, it responds quickly enough |
| 00:16.09 | djkrikke | but from what I've heard and seen, the resistive screen works quite good |
| 00:16.26 | nonversation | does it run opera mobile? or opera? |
| 00:16.29 | sejo | DocScrutinizer: hmm got the extras but no gstreamer? |
| 00:16.29 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 00:16.35 | ShadowJK | nonversation, no. |
| 00:16.36 | djkrikke | nonversation, it runs firefox |
| 00:16.42 | Gadgetoid | the n900 responds well to very light touch |
| 00:16.42 | nonversation | webkit |
| 00:16.44 | djkrikke | firefox mobile iirc |
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| 00:17.04 | ShadowJK | firefox mobile is an alternative. The default browser microb is based on the same technology as firefox, gecko. |
| 00:17.07 | nonversation | what about social apps, twitter, facebook , myspace, and the like |
| 00:17.21 | nonversation | can you run those in the background |
| 00:17.24 | Gadgetoid | the screen is flush like the iphone and doesnt give like an oldschool pda |
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| 00:18.32 | nonversation | my previous expierences with nokia havent been so well when it comes to software support, sort of afraid to make the jump again |
| 00:18.52 | nonversation | like the E71 |
| 00:18.56 | nonversation | and N95 |
| 00:19.09 | KenYoung | Does anyone know how to get the N900 into portrait mode, other than with the dialer app? I'd like to have an application run in portrait mode, and I'd be happy to modify the source code to do so. |
| 00:19.19 | Gadgetoid | i am still waiting for my three sim to work in the n900 |
| 00:19.35 | nonversation | shouldn't any sim work in it? |
| 00:19.44 | nonversation | as long as you have the settings? |
| 00:19.58 | LinuxCode | Gadgetoid, needs activating ? |
| 00:20.04 | Gadgetoid | yes... unless its a particular three sim |
| 00:20.22 | Gadgetoid | in which case there is a known bug |
| 00:20.27 | *** join/#maemo Lorthirk (n=cm0901@109.114.1.61) |
| 00:20.36 | nonversation | Does the N900 have a twitter app? facebook app? myspace app? |
| 00:20.46 | Gadgetoid | fixed but no firmware update containing it yet |
| 00:20.54 | ShadowJK | Basically, sim cards are smartcards. The smartcards contain applications. The "sim" application is supported, but the new application used by 3g-only cards aren't. The "sim" application can support both gsm and 3g. At the time nobody was using the new 3g only app and nokia probably didn't think anyone would. Then it turned out otherwise.. wikipedia has the messy details on sim cards :) |
| 00:21.25 | Gadgetoid | it has widgets but the browser suffices for actually using facebook |
| 00:21.35 | Gadgetoid | apps are always a compromise |
| 00:21.54 | Gadgetoid | the n900 will run farmville kinda |
| 00:22.02 | djkrikke | that's cool |
| 00:22.17 | djkrikke | finally something with good web browsing and flash support |
| 00:22.25 | Gadgetoid | wish it would run quakelive and had dual analogue |
| 00:22.33 | sejo | there is witter (for twitter) but doesn't wark here |
| 00:22.44 | nonversation | so you have on screen widgets for twitter |
| 00:22.52 | sejo | it's cool to kave default video out |
| 00:23.11 | sejo | nonversation: yeah there is a widget also |
| 00:23.18 | sejo | but keeps on browsing |
| 00:23.33 | nonversation | facebook widgets as well? like the N97? |
| 00:23.40 | sejo | yes |
| 00:24.20 | nonversation | well that sounds good, looks like it covers most of what I use on android, except the navigation |
| 00:24.28 | Gadgetoid | i left my n900 downloading about 300mb from bittorrent on battery whoopsie.. seeded to 80 percent |
| 00:24.48 | Stskeeps | and your phone bill bankrupting you? |
| 00:24.56 | djkrikke | how's the battery when torrenting? |
| 00:25.06 | nonversation | hows the video quality? what format does it save the videos in? |
| 00:25.28 | nonversation | hope its mp4 or mov , avi |
| 00:25.30 | *** join/#maemo xchatevil (n=user@87.113.129.2) |
| 00:25.31 | nonversation | and not 3pg |
| 00:25.34 | Gadgetoid | dont torrent on battery :) |
| 00:25.50 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer51 (n=Joerg_rw@p57AF3F64.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:25.58 | djkrikke | is it really that bad? :P |
| 00:26.01 | *** join/#maemo |uben| (n=uben@p5084EB01.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:26.05 | Gadgetoid | it could probably suck down a gig without seeding |
| 00:26.10 | ShadowJK | I would guess 2-4 hours torrenting on battery :) |
| 00:26.25 | nonversation | when you record video, what format is it in? |
| 00:26.43 | Gadgetoid | but if you plan to actually watch the video afterwards you are gonna want to do it on mains |
| 00:26.49 | ShadowJK | nonversation, mp4 probably |
| 00:26.51 | ShadowJK | I haven't checked |
| 00:26.55 | Gadgetoid | the torrent client also has a web ui |
| 00:26.56 | xchatevil | flickr should have some video |
| 00:27.02 | ShadowJK | hasn't had a nokia phone in 3 years that has used 3gp |
| 00:27.27 | Gadgetoid | so you can leave your phone charging and add torrents to it from your desktop |
| 00:27.34 | *** join/#maemo sphenxes02 (n=sphenxes@85-127-135-71.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 00:27.35 | djkrikke | funny |
| 00:27.42 | nonversation | Android default video recording is in 3gp |
| 00:27.45 | nonversation | no other options |
| 00:27.48 | djkrikke | but then you'd probably download torrents on your desktop and add them from your n900? :) |
| 00:27.52 | nonversation | but of course they dont tell you that when they sell it to you |
| 00:28.06 | nonversation | and vlc doesn't support 3gp audio |
| 00:28.08 | nonversation | anymore |
| 00:28.22 | ShadowJK | 3gp audio... you mean amr? |
| 00:28.27 | nonversation | yup |
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| 00:28.38 | nonversation | its a pain in the ass |
| 00:29.07 | nonversation | I think in linux you have to complile vlc from source to get it to play amr, I think they leave it out as default |
| 00:29.34 | ShadowJK | probably |
| 00:29.45 | nonversation | I could not get anything to play my 3gp videos from android in linux, or windows , or woud play without sound |
| 00:29.49 | ShadowJK | the amr reference implementation isn't redistributable |
| 00:29.52 | Gadgetoid | true djkrikke i usually ftp into my desktop from the n900 and grab what i need |
| 00:29.57 | nonversation | only option is a direct upload to youtube, or spend time trying to cover it |
| 00:29.59 | nonversation | convert it |
| 00:30.40 | Gadgetoid | hmm that reminds me, need to grab my n810 and finish an ebook |
| 00:31.31 | *** part/#maemo nonversation (n=meeeeee@200-83.207-68.panhandle.res.rr.com) |
| 00:31.49 | Gadgetoid | theres an account plugin to idle irc nut it cant join channels or identify with nickserv... boo |
| 00:31.53 | djkrikke | afraid to ask, but how's the battery life, can it handle at least 1 day? |
| 00:32.09 | djkrikke | I know it is in reviews |
| 00:32.14 | djkrikke | and there they say about "yes" |
| 00:32.26 | djkrikke | but when used like it should be used (ftp, irc, ..), how is it? |
| 00:32.28 | Gadgetoid | does for me, sits on my desk all day idling irc |
| 00:33.02 | ShadowJK | irc on 3g is bad with lots of channels. edge lasts the day. wlan lasts longer |
| 00:33.05 | Xisdibik | djkrikke: i unplug it at about 7-8am, and go until after 8pm. using it for at least 3 hours of music player, and it has wifi, gps, etc on. |
| 00:33.19 | Gadgetoid | i am never far from power though |
| 00:35.24 | Xisdibik | to me the battery life is great |
| 00:36.06 | djkrikke | at what percentage is the battery at 8pm? |
| 00:36.19 | Gadgetoid | n810 is better... lack of gsm helps |
| 00:36.34 | Xisdibik | djkrikke: not sure, never checked the exact % |
| 00:36.49 | Xisdibik | below 25% for sure id say |
| 00:37.22 | ShadowJK | with 20 freenode irc channels and 15 other irc channels, I'm at 57% after 10 hours |
| 00:37.23 | djkrikke | ok thanks for that information |
| 00:37.24 | Xisdibik | ive never felt like i was rushing to charge the thing tho |
| 00:37.29 | djkrikke | right now my iphone is at 40% each day |
| 00:37.39 | Xisdibik | ShadowJK: on wifi or GSM/3G? |
| 00:37.42 | sejo | can't I add mp3 files as ringtone? |
| 00:37.44 | djkrikke | problem is, I take the train to my university and there's bad reception, it literally kills the battery |
| 00:37.45 | ShadowJK | gsm |
| 00:37.55 | Gadgetoid | i gave my iphone to the other half |
| 00:38.10 | ShadowJK | with 3g it/s at 50% in 3 hours :) |
| 00:38.15 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (n=hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 00:38.27 | Gadgetoid | lack of multi tasking meant i basically had to carry the iphone and n810 everywhere |
| 00:38.44 | ShadowJK | 3g is bad for irc |
| 00:40.36 | SpeedEvil | xchat on n900 is quite OK. |
| 00:41.03 | ShadowJK | except that changing settings crashes |
| 00:41.05 | djkrikke | what I'm also wondering is, someone tried bluetooth internet tethering before? |
| 00:41.16 | SpeedEvil | It could do with kineticisation of the scrolly things, but apart from that, and the profile thing. |
| 00:41.29 | Gadgetoid | apart from lack of kinetic scrolling and its hijacking the volume buttons to switch windows |
| 00:41.40 | *** join/#maemo jebba900 (n=jebba900@host159.200-117-170.telecom.net.ar) |
| 00:42.20 | Gadgetoid | cant even easily reach the volume keys with the keyboard open |
| 00:42.27 | KenYoung | On my N900, I am unable to set the execute permission bit of any file stored on the microSD card. Does anyone know how that can be fixed? |
| 00:43.00 | Gadgetoid | no ken |
| 00:43.12 | Gadgetoid | unless you want to reformat it |
| 00:43.20 | crashanddie_mbp | KenYoung: it's because the fat partition is mounted with the nosuid flag or something |
| 00:43.26 | KenYoung | Gadgetoid, I'm willing to reformat. |
| 00:43.27 | Stskeeps | noexec |
| 00:43.28 | crashanddie_mbp | or noexec |
| 00:43.38 | Stskeeps | KenYoung: internal or external? |
| 00:43.41 | Gadgetoid | fat cant even support exec/perms surely |
| 00:43.56 | crashanddie_mbp | Gadgetoid: everything is set as exec on fat |
| 00:44.11 | Gadgetoid | mmmm .... secure |
| 00:44.20 | crashanddie_mbp | hence the noexec flag |
| 00:44.24 | Gadgetoid | haha |
| 00:44.40 | Gadgetoid | mount -o remount,exec ftw |
| 00:44.42 | KenYoung | Stskeeps, There's only one microSD slot on the N900, isn't there? |
| 00:44.57 | crashanddie_mbp | KenYoung: actually there's 2 |
| 00:44.59 | Gadgetoid | dunno what device the sd is though |
| 00:45.00 | Stskeeps | KenYoung: well, the internal storage is 'technically' a sd, so wasn't sure what you meant. just format it ext2/ext3 |
| 00:45.05 | Stskeeps | KenYoung: and be happy |
| 00:45.06 | Stskeeps | P |
| 00:45.12 | SpeedEvil | Anyone figured out what pins under the battery might be? |
| 00:45.21 | crashanddie_mbp | SpeedEvil: i2c for sure |
| 00:45.24 | Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: serial, most likely. |
| 00:45.31 | ShadowJK | serial probably |
| 00:45.40 | crashanddie_mbp | there's two different set of pins |
| 00:45.50 | SpeedEvil | crashanddie_mbp: yeah. I was wondering if anyone had actually worked it out - wondering about gluing stuff on. |
| 00:45.51 | crashanddie_mbp | one which only has 2 pins, and another with 8 or 6 |
| 00:45.57 | KenYoung | Stskeeps, Thanks, I will. |
| 00:46.06 | SpeedEvil | 8/6 sounds like a candidate for jtag |
| 00:46.12 | crashanddie_mbp | indeed |
| 00:46.23 | crashanddie_mbp | i2c + jtag would make it very interesting |
| 00:46.26 | Gadgetoid | thats where someone will hack in a digital compass haha |
| 00:47.06 | sejo | has sounds video and now looking for themes :p |
| 00:47.08 | crashanddie_mbp | can we all be proper geeks, and just call it by its real name? A magnetometer |
| 00:47.41 | SpeedEvil | http://www.ssec.honeywell.com/magnetic/datasheets/HMC5843.pdf |
| 00:47.44 | Gadgetoid | magnetometerman |
| 00:47.54 | SpeedEvil | I2C, teeny, not too spendy |
| 00:48.29 | Stskeeps | how many pins does i2c typically require? :P |
| 00:48.34 | *** join/#maemo hardaker2 (n=hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 00:48.34 | SpeedEvil | 2 |
| 00:48.47 | Gadgetoid | just rig an ordinary compass under the n900 and use the camera to read it |
| 00:48.53 | Stskeeps | i mean, 2 serials and one jtag sounds sane.. but wtf is the last one |
| 00:49.19 | crashanddie_mbp | buttplug adapter |
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| 00:49.42 | Stskeeps | Gadgetoid: not an entirely bad idea :P |
| 00:49.42 | crashanddie_mbp | gives a whole new meaning to "Nokia: Connecting People: |
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| 00:50.10 | SpeedEvil | 6 is the absolute minimum for jtag. |
| 00:50.17 | Gadgetoid | it would kinda work stskeeps... if you held it level |
| 00:50.20 | SpeedEvil | gnd/and 5 other signals |
| 00:50.53 | DocScrutinizer | I2C also loves GND |
| 00:51.12 | fernando__ | er, I don't know if this is the right place, but... tablet-encode is quitting with a "Audio LAVC, couldn't find encoder for codec mp3." error |
| 00:51.37 | fernando__ | should I... reinstall mencoder or something? |
| 00:51.50 | DocScrutinizer | most likely the pins under bat aren't suitable for extensions nayway |
| 00:52.25 | DocScrutinizer | that's all fab calib and QA for jigmount |
| 00:52.52 | DocScrutinizer | JTAG, and maybe modem-tty |
| 00:53.08 | fernando__ | ah never mind |
| 00:53.27 | DocScrutinizer | Or speaker/earpiece etc, something they *need* to stick a DVM to |
| 00:53.29 | SpeedEvil | yeah - probably not plausible. |
| 00:53.46 | SpeedEvil | You could in principle probably add it easily. |
| 00:53.52 | SpeedEvil | Parallel the accel |
| 00:54.00 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 00:54.17 | DocScrutinizer | if you find the pads to slder a cable to |
| 00:54.32 | SpeedEvil | worst case, pull the chip |
| 00:54.37 | DocScrutinizer | eeeek |
| 00:54.41 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 00:54.45 | Macer | hm |
| 00:54.52 | Macer | in maemo4 why doesn't this thing get my imap folders? |
| 00:55.07 | DocScrutinizer | how about USB hub? |
| 00:55.10 | SpeedEvil | (and yes, I'm slightly reluctant to solder) |
| 00:55.34 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I haven't gotten round to it - I found stuff I'll need to test more today. |
| 00:55.52 | DocScrutinizer | aah that one |
| 00:55.56 | sejo | for maemo 5 (n900) mhat repo's should I set? fremantle |
| 00:56.01 | DocScrutinizer | I actually lost interest for now |
| 00:56.06 | sejo | diablo? |
| 00:56.10 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizerI haven't. |
| 00:56.36 | SpeedEvil | Just too much annoying random crap, and getting up the energy |
| 00:57.07 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: if you disassembe the critter, don't forget to post me highres flatbed scans |
| 00:57.20 | Macer | haha |
| 00:57.28 | DocScrutinizer | so I can read all the chip names ;-) |
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| 00:57.39 | Macer | and make the cheap chinese knockoff? |
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| 00:58.23 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: unfortunately, there is absolutely no way realistically I can afford to take it apart. If I break it, I will not be getting another. |
| 00:58.25 | DocScrutinizer | and nota bene: Nokia in their service manual marks can lids as "use new one, discard old part after removing" - well they do same for screws even o.O |
| 00:58.44 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: same here ;-D |
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| 01:03.22 | crashanddie_mbp | DocScrutinizer: which service manual? |
| 01:03.57 | DocScrutinizer | for whatever it's worth: N810 "" PROD_TEST_PATTERN \n UART3(1:0) \n SLEEPCLK_REQ_1V8 \n SLEEPCLK_REQ_2V8 \n SCK "" |
| 01:04.20 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie_mbp: ^^ |
| 01:04.39 | DocScrutinizer | crashanddie_mbp: the answer ;-) |
| 01:04.41 | crashanddie_mbp | oh, n810 one, old |
| 01:07.24 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mediafire.com/?ndmjylkj4wk |
| 01:07.28 | SpeedEvil | n900 service manual |
| 01:08.43 | DocScrutinizer | how THE HECK download it? |
| 01:08.45 | jebba | a fkn .rar? |
| 01:09.10 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
| 01:09.11 | SpeedEvil | http://www.a2phone.com/component/option,com_phocadownload/Itemid,15/id,324/view,category/ |
| 01:10.12 | jebba | have to log in to download.... |
| 01:10.15 | SpeedEvil | yes - it's a pay site |
| 01:11.00 | DocScrutinizer | To access the private area of this site, please log in. :-(((( |
| 01:11.04 | DocScrutinizer | GRRRRRRRRR |
| 01:11.37 | jebba | it's real hard to distribute .pdfs on the internet, i know. |
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| 01:21.38 | user___ | sitting in da pub having a few |
| 01:21.55 | *** join/#maemo DantonicN800 (n=user@72.34.133.249) |
| 01:23.15 | user___ | crap |
| 01:24.29 | *** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@ANantes-252-1-60-181.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 01:26.26 | DocScrutinizer | havin a few crap - oh noes! |
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| 01:27.01 | DangerMaus | hehe |
| 01:27.37 | DangerMaus | gotta get an irssi config going here DocScrutinizer |
| 01:28.07 | DangerMaus | to stop signing on as user |
| 01:28.44 | ali1234 | wow, i just had a PROPER crash |
| 01:28.58 | ali1234 | while playing back a video i just recorded |
| 01:29.08 | ali1234 | n900 did an instant-reset |
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| 01:30.59 | DocScrutinizer | oooops |
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| 02:20.31 | *** topic/#maemo is to: Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Maemo-Barcelona Long Weekend - Registrations open - http://tinyurl.com/ydv6p62 |
| 02:21.48 | w00t | it was there before ovi, I only set that up today |
| 02:22.22 | DocScrutinizer | notifier: "Registered at Ovi of Nokia: joerg900 \n Chat, foo, and bla activated" |
| 02:22.50 | DocScrutinizer | yep, now it's there |
| 02:22.52 | AakashPatel | how do you swtich into the armel target in scratchbox? |
| 02:23.01 | w00t | adds you for fun and profit |
| 02:23.15 | DocScrutinizer | go ahead ;-D |
| 02:23.52 | ShadowJK | wonders if sb_menu does stuff |
| 02:24.02 | AakashPatel | oh yeah |
| 02:24.04 | AakashPatel | thanks |
| 02:24.36 | ShadowJK | and I don't even use that hting.. |
| 02:25.07 | AakashPatel | lol i havent used scratchbox in a while |
| 02:26.13 | w00t | DocScrutinizer: did that work? |
| 02:27.16 | DocScrutinizer | errr, what? |
| 02:27.35 | w00t | DocScrutinizer: tried adding you |
| 02:27.50 | DocScrutinizer | went unnoticed |
| 02:28.38 | DocScrutinizer | nooooow |
| 02:29.15 | DocScrutinizer | w00t: ok, for this *one* time :-DDD |
| 02:29.19 | w00t | ah :-D |
| 02:29.43 | w00t | hugs his n900 |
| 02:30.16 | kurtan | kills w00t and steals the n900 |
| 02:30.24 | w00t | kurtan: not got yours yet? |
| 02:30.26 | kurtan | has no ethics |
| 02:30.27 | *** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@ANantes-252-1-60-181.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 02:30.30 | kurtan | no.. :( |
| 02:30.40 | ShadowJK | sweden has the hutchinson 3g disease I think :) |
| 02:30.45 | w00t | kurtan: where are you? |
| 02:30.50 | DocScrutinizer | wonders which friggin "app" (I start to hate the word) to use to see any detail about w00t |
| 02:30.56 | w00t | DocScrutinizer: contacts |
| 02:30.58 | timeless_mbp | wow, my recording timing sucked |
| 02:30.59 | kurtan | hopefully nokia will start delivery this week |
| 02:31.04 | w00t | (address book icon) |
| 02:31.08 | kurtan | w00t: sweden |
| 02:31.11 | w00t | kurtan: ...ah |
| 02:31.17 | timeless_mbp | it got everything until they try to escape the supernova |
| 02:31.20 | DocScrutinizer | he |
| 02:31.33 | w00t | timeless_mbp: :-/ |
| 02:31.58 | DocScrutinizer | there appeared a W00the@ovi.com automagically XD |
| 02:32.03 | ShadowJK | timeless_mbp, well, it's mainstream scifi. They all make it, and the world/universe is saved for now. |
| 02:32.47 | ShadowJK | oh wait, was that the ep where that wasn't true? I can't remember :-( |
| 02:33.23 | timeless_mbp | i'm currently reading a book |
| 02:33.29 | timeless_mbp | wherever every couple of chapters someone dies |
| 02:33.54 | w00t | DocScrutinizer: when did you get yours? ;) |
| 02:33.59 | w00t | ah |
| 02:34.02 | w00t | nvm |
| 02:34.03 | w00t | :P |
| 02:34.08 | ShadowJK | One day, we will have technology that enables us to, like, download stuff from start to end, instead of sitting with a stopwatch surrounded by alarms trying to catch the whims of broadcasters |
| 02:35.52 | w00t | ShadowJK: :P |
| 02:37.41 | djkrikke | I see lots of users having troubles using vnc viewer on the n900, is this really working yet? |
| 02:37.49 | ShadowJK | hopes it wont involve adobe, javascript or theora |
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| 02:41.09 | DocScrutinizer | what's wrong with theora? |
| 02:42.05 | w00t | ** religious war alert ** |
| 02:42.07 | w00t | :p |
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| 02:42.15 | DocScrutinizer | ducks |
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| 05:46.47 | *** topic/#maemo is to: Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Maemo-Barcelona Long Weekend - Registrations open - http://tinyurl.com/ydv6p62 |
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| 05:51.57 | DocScrutinizer-8 | has anybody seen a manual for the tiny CA-148C usb-adapter that came with N900? |
| 05:52.56 | DocScrutinizer-8 | I'd think using this adapter without proper instruction is rather scary |
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| 06:18.52 | crashanddie_mbp | ~ping |
| 06:18.53 | infobot | ~pong |
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| 06:21.54 | lucent | has N900 on pre-order, peeks in to see what he can see |
| 06:22.43 | jiiv | :/ not much, mine's just shipped Friday. |
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| 06:23.36 | lucent | it's exciting for me - I'm a long time Linux user and I was not thinking "wow" until the N900 caught my eye |
| 06:23.52 | lucent | never had a phone with a data plan |
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| 06:24.53 | jiiv | I've been addicted to my n810 for quite some time, but the n900 is really the first 'gadget' that has really excited me. |
| 06:25.27 | jiiv | there's no telling how many times i refreshed dell's order page in the last month... |
| 06:25.35 | lucent | what pushed me to the point of buying it is my AT&T plan for basic nationwide service is more expensive than T-Mobile 3G with unlimited dataplan |
| 06:26.14 | lucent | linux phone, works with cheaper phone service, have 3G coverage in my area... done deal. |
| 06:26.20 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@95.141.187.81.in-addr.arpa) |
| 06:26.44 | lucent | jiiv: have you any thoughts about protecting the phone from scratches? |
| 06:27.07 | lucent | I have never had an expensive phone - as I said above - so I'm nervous about what to do on a slider device |
| 06:27.10 | jiiv | I ordered one of the zagg full body kits, but don't know how good it is or when it'll arrive. |
| 06:27.35 | jiiv | honestly i'm not too worried about the slider- my 810 is still very solid after a year or two of everyday use. |
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| 07:39.57 | *** topic/#maemo is to: Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Maemo-Barcelona Long Weekend - Registrations open - http://tinyurl.com/ydv6p62 |
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| 07:52.26 | *** topic/#maemo is to: Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Maemo-Barcelona Long Weekend - Registrations open - http://tinyurl.com/ydv6p62 |
| 07:56.43 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
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| 08:11.19 | andre__ | Sargun, like? |
| 08:11.26 | Sargun | smugmug |
| 08:11.29 | andre__ | as a user? as a developer? |
| 08:11.39 | Sargun | developer |
| 08:13.44 | andre__ | Sargun, for an easier life: wait a few weeks until bug 6177 will be resolved. for the hackish way: check out the code diffs in bug 5300. |
| 08:13.46 | povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6177 Consider pushing sharing-dialog-dev to nokia-binaries to encourage developer usage of sharing dialog |
| 08:13.51 | povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5300 Support sending files via Bluetooth in file manager |
| 08:14.18 | andre__ | I also hope that something's written about it in http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide |
| 08:19.47 | Myrtti | <PROTECTED> |
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| 08:20.07 | Proteous | the button would be labled "bacon" |
| 08:20.22 | Proteous | the two functions would be to produce bacon and coffee |
| 08:20.28 | Myrtti | one of the functions is "reset" and the other is that when the widget is tapped, the number on it increases by one. |
| 08:20.32 | Proteous | most awesome widget ever |
| 08:20.58 | Myrtti | reset would naturally reset the counter to 0 |
| 08:22.16 | Myrtti | I'm sure there is several usecases for such a counter, but I'd need it for my knitting to keep track of the rows of stiches I've done, or tens of stiches made |
| 08:23.56 | Myrtti | or I'll just learn python/whatever and do it myself... |
| 08:29.23 | Ashenburg | any of you familiar with drnoksnes? is there a way to edit the controller layout? |
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| 08:38.45 | Myrtti | meh. I'm looking at pygtk tutorial and hating it already |
| 08:45.00 | RST38h | Ladies and gentlemen! I am happy to announce that thanks to Clive Crous, Vulture's Eye works perfectly on N900 now |
| 08:45.10 | RST38h | Just needs some packaging. |
| 08:45.27 | jiiv | woot! um...what's that? |
| 08:45.48 | Ashenburg | sweet, I never tried nethack :) |
| 08:46.07 | jiiv | oh, it's a nethack? excellent. |
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| 08:48.14 | pekuja | a graphical version |
| 08:48.31 | jiiv | oh...i'm not sure how i feel about that. |
| 08:48.54 | pekuja | I'm sure the text version works just fine too |
| 08:49.03 | jiiv | kk :) |
| 08:49.26 | pekuja | but then maybe on a small device you would want some sort of GUI |
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| 08:49.39 | pekuja | but I suppose the keyboard works pretty well for nethack too |
| 08:49.56 | jiiv | it seems to. i have one (dungeon crawl i think?) on my 810 and it's fine for me. |
| 08:50.08 | jiiv | should hopefully receive my n900 this week some time. |
| 08:50.21 | pekuja | it's Sunday |
| 08:50.31 | pekuja | oh, you live in the part of the world where Sunday starts the week |
| 08:50.38 | jiiv | yes :) |
| 08:50.53 | pekuja | I'm hoping to get mine next week ;-) |
| 08:50.56 | pekuja | which starts tomorrow |
| 08:51.19 | pekuja | but I don't really know. |
| 08:51.23 | jiiv | best of luck with that :) dell apparently finally shipped mine friday, but i still have no tracking information. :/ |
| 08:52.00 | pekuja | Dell sells them? |
| 08:52.00 | pekuja | weird |
| 08:52.00 | jiiv | i haven't been excited about a new device in years, but now i'm like a kid waiting on christmas presents. |
| 08:52.11 | jiiv | they just resell for nokia, i believe. |
| 08:52.36 | jiiv | they had an excellent deal on november 5th, so i preordered through them. |
| 08:53.32 | pekuja | :-) |
| 08:53.38 | pekuja | how much was it? |
| 08:54.02 | jiiv | i believe it was $473 US, or something close to that after shipping and tax. |
| 08:54.07 | pekuja | not bad |
| 08:54.21 | pekuja | I ordered mine from my operator |
| 08:54.28 | jiiv | well, won't be bad if it ever arrives. :/ i'd started doubting that. |
| 08:54.36 | jiiv | oh? who do you use? |
| 08:54.40 | pekuja | it comes to about 550 euros during two years |
| 08:54.42 | pekuja | Saunalahti |
| 08:55.06 | jiiv | i'll pretend i know who that is. :) where do you live? |
| 08:55.12 | pekuja | I know some people who ordered from them have already received their devices |
| 08:55.20 | pekuja | which is encouraging |
| 08:55.20 | pekuja | Finland |
| 08:55.41 | jiiv | i'd figured so...it looked Finnish, but i'm not terribly familiar with it. |
| 08:56.11 | pekuja | :-) |
| 08:56.18 | pekuja | they're a smaller operator here anyways |
| 08:56.24 | jiiv | yes, having people who ordered from the same place receive their devices is both encouraging and terribly annoying...several people who ordered from dell after i did ended up getting them a couple weeks ago. :/ |
| 08:56.48 | jiiv | ah. none of our operators are selling them yet over here. |
| 08:57.45 | Ashenburg | RST38h: how do you play VE? with the keyboard or can you use the touchscreen? |
| 08:57.48 | RST38h | touchscreen |
| 08:57.53 | Ashenburg | nice! |
| 08:57.53 | jiiv | whoa, i just saw some screenshots of vulture's eye. that is sort of neat. |
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| 09:01.51 | jiiv | i believe it's about my bedtime, have a great evening. good luck on getting your n900, pekuja. |
| 09:02.18 | Sargun | does it do doom yet? |
| 09:08.17 | pekuja | well, it does Quake 3 |
| 09:08.23 | pekuja | dunno about Doom |
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| 09:09.38 | lucent | I pre-ordered N900 from Amazon when it was 519.99 usd and received notice that it *might* ship 2009-12-11 or later |
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| 09:10.42 | lucent | it's only mildly inconvenient since I can't get a screen protector for it any earlier than that anyhow |
| 09:12.32 | pekuja | I think I'll just get a case of some sort for it |
| 09:12.49 | pekuja | like the one that came with N810 |
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| 09:13.16 | lucent | oh and I'm in the USA so getting the Nokia CP321 case for the N900 ... had to go to eBay for that |
| 09:13.25 | lucent | UK seller that ships internationally |
| 09:13.59 | pekuja | the CP321 looks nice |
| 09:14.02 | pekuja | I'll probably get one of those |
| 09:14.23 | pekuja | can you attach that to a belt or something though? |
| 09:14.26 | pekuja | looks like just a plain case |
| 09:16.32 | lucent | it's just an official slip case |
| 09:17.11 | lucent | I need something to keep it from getting whacked when riding in my backpack |
| 09:17.33 | lucent | zagg invisibleshield + slip case... for now |
| 09:20.31 | pekuja | I'd like a belt clip case |
| 09:20.40 | pekuja | but the slip case might be fine too |
| 09:20.51 | lucent | belt clips _never_ work well for me |
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| 09:20.59 | lucent | always end up in a dropped phone |
| 09:21.10 | pekuja | I haven't really used them to be honest |
| 09:21.23 | pekuja | perhaps slip case + pocket is better |
| 09:21.31 | lucent | oh, well I'm not totally advising against using a belt clip |
| 09:21.35 | pekuja | I just have my current phone in my pocket without any case |
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| 09:21.52 | lucent | just that if you do, expect to toast your phone every now and then and buy / reimburse a new one |
| 09:22.18 | lucent | if work pays for the phone, belt clip is much more convenient |
| 09:22.48 | lucent | have them buy you a new one when it meets the impending doom |
| 09:23.08 | *** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@ANantes-252-1-60-181.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:23.08 | pekuja | hah |
| 09:23.16 | pekuja | maybe you're right |
| 09:29.09 | *** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 09:30.03 | *** join/#maemo pgquiles (n=pgquiles@84.88.33.150) |
| 09:30.16 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (n=millenom@94.198.78.26) |
| 09:31.56 | *** join/#maemo dolphin (n=dolphin@unaffiliated/dolphin) |
| 09:32.07 | *** join/#maemo johnx (n=john@c-98-203-215-72.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 09:32.28 | flux | does anyone have a link to the osso-xterm keymap bindings list? I've lost my link.. apparently it's not in its sources either, nor in gtk/gdk? |
| 09:33.54 | *** join/#maemo Termana (n=Termana@123-3-64-233.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 09:41.51 | flux | I suppose I just suck at searching, because it's this that finally decodes the values: gdk_keyval_from_name(key_start) |
| 09:42.29 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 09:42.46 | flux | ah, of course the map must be in gdk sources, not in its dev-headers |
| 09:45.57 | *** join/#maemo Unmenschlich (n=steven@p57A26CBA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:49.46 | johnx | ~lart XDMCP for being a PITA |
| 09:49.46 | infobot | pulls out his louisville slugger and uses XDMCP's head to break the homerun record for being a PITA |
| 09:50.24 | SpeedEvil | lucent: on the stupid hacks front. |
| 09:50.54 | SpeedEvil | lucent: I currently have cling film as my screen protector. |
| 09:52.05 | SpeedEvil | lucent: breath on the display, then carefully stretch film across one broad edge of screen, and lower it down onto screen, while keeping film taught. |
| 09:52.05 | *** join/#maemo chelli (n=chelli@p54B861CA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:52.05 | GAN900 | Morning, everybody. |
| 09:52.05 | SpeedEvil | Then trim with scissors, and apply a 4mm line of tape around it. |
| 09:52.27 | *** join/#maemo zs (n=zs@188-220-50-10.zone11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 09:52.27 | Meizirkki | morning GAN900 |
| 09:52.46 | Stskeeps | GAN900: how's bcn so far? |
| 09:52.49 | SpeedEvil | few bubbles if you do it right, and lasts OK with the stylus. fingernails can tear |
| 09:53.17 | cehteh | eww :P |
| 09:53.40 | GAN900 | Stskeeps, amazing |
| 09:53.43 | johnx | I don't think I ever did end up with any scratches in my N800's *screen* |
| 09:54.00 | cehteh | usually used cold laminator foil, for the n900 i now brought a screen protector for the first time |
| 09:54.11 | cehteh | .. well still waiting for the device :P |
| 09:54.25 | Stskeeps | GAN900: still think maemo is going to hell? :P |
| 09:54.25 | johnx | GAN900, good thing you got your passport, eh? |
| 09:54.25 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: I have a protector on order too. |
| 09:54.39 | Myrtti | what version of ubuntu should I have to install maemo 5 sdk? |
| 09:54.51 | Myrtti | would hardy do? I'd prefer it because it's lts |
| 09:55.14 | cehteh | applying the cold laminator foil with destilled water and isopropanole mixture, no bubbles, but takes a few days to settle |
| 09:55.26 | Mek | I'm running hardy and never had problems with the maemo 5 sdk, so should work |
| 09:55.47 | Myrtti | and no, I don't want to read the documentation. I've done that for the past 6 months. |
| 09:55.47 | Myrtti | :-D |
| 09:55.47 | cehteh | i have some for *years* on some devices now |
| 09:55.47 | Myrtti | Mek: thanks. |
| 09:56.10 | cehteh | some quite scratched .. maybe i shall reapply a new one on my gps for example :P |
| 09:56.35 | GAN900 | Stskeeps, well, not in the 2-months-ago context, but not sure about Maemo 6. |
| 09:57.04 | GAN900 | Was out until 4 AM last night with a bunch of people |
| 09:57.27 | GAN900 | I'm done today. <_< |
| 09:58.13 | flux | the keymap url in case anyone else has use for it: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/gtk+/gdk/gdkkeysyms.h |
| 09:58.27 | SpeedEvil | proper screen protectors these days have the soft silicone backing which just sticks |
| 09:58.31 | SpeedEvil | gently |
| 09:58.50 | Myrtti | SpeedEvil: and would last in my use about a week |
| 09:59.07 | thomastp | cehteh: where did you buy screen protector for n900 ? |
| 09:59.15 | SpeedEvil | Myrtti: ? |
| 09:59.29 | SpeedEvil | ebay! |
| 09:59.42 | cehteh | some internet shop .. i already regret it, way to expensive and they spamed me already |
| 09:59.52 | SpeedEvil | http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=n900&=&_sacat=See-All-Categories |
| 10:00.00 | cehteh | google around there are plenty |
| 10:00.17 | *** join/#maemo apol (n=apol@84.88.33.150) |
| 10:00.27 | Myrtti | OMFG! OMFG! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HOT-PINK-HYBRID-HARD-COVER-RUBBER-CASE-FOR-NOKIA-N900_W0QQitemZ150394071202QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhonesCasesPouches?hash=item23042f68a2 |
| 10:00.27 | Myrtti | PINKKKKKK |
| 10:00.31 | SpeedEvil | I got http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NOKIA-N900-CRYSTAL-CLEAR-HARD-CASE-SCREEN-PROTECTOR_W0QQitemZ190353399122QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhonesCasesPouches?hash=item2c51f25d52 |
| 10:00.37 | SpeedEvil | Unsure how well it will work |
| 10:00.45 | GAN900 | johnx, yes. |
| 10:00.48 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 10:01.04 | Clok | http://phantomskinz.com/nokian900.aspx not very expensive cover |
| 10:01.20 | GAN900 | Anybody see the updated http://maemo.org/support page? |
| 10:01.26 | Myrtti | then of course, I need a N900. |
| 10:01.46 | Myrtti | and I just spent my budget for shopping stuff for three months yesterday |
| 10:02.04 | cehteh | i got a DuraSec HighTec .. but it feels rubberish, not even sure how it performs on the real device |
| 10:02.06 | Myrtti | I bloody well hope the mattress will take some of my back pain away |
| 10:02.06 | cehteh | its quite thick so it might give good protection .. to be seen |
| 10:02.12 | Gadgetoid | my god, do you guys ever sleep |
| 10:02.23 | Myrtti | Gadgetoid: timezones, ever heard? |
| 10:02.31 | Gadgetoid | i want an N900 case with a non crappy stand built in |
| 10:02.34 | Myrtti | 2009-12-06 12:02:31 |
| 10:02.42 | johnx | GAN900, Looks nice. I'm almost sure the "Talk forums" link shouldn't point to "http://internettablettalk.com" though |
| 10:02.58 | johnx | Gadgetoid, we don't sleep. We wait. |
| 10:03.41 | Clok | are those rubber cases any good? |
| 10:03.55 | Gadgetoid | what are you waiting for johnx? |
| 10:03.58 | cehteh | wait until my case is finished ... :) |
| 10:04.05 | Myrtti | after I'm done with my Christmas present knitting, I'll knit a pouch for my N800 |
| 10:04.28 | cehteh | did i saied that i need the device first? :P |
| 10:04.37 | johnx | Gadgetoid, waiting for my shiny new laptop to ship (or for them to tell me they won't ship it. either one really) |
| 10:05.02 | *** join/#maemo myosound (n=myosound@173.13.200.50) |
| 10:05.43 | GAN900 | johnx, ah, oops. I blame Dave. ;) |
| 10:05.52 | Gadgetoid | johnx i had that with the core i7 imac |
| 10:05.56 | GAN900 | Also, the "Contributing to the wiki" article. |
| 10:07.08 | johnx | Gadgetoid, yeah, thing is that I'm kinda worried the price they posted was an accident and I'm not sure if they'll honor it... |
| 10:07.12 | Gadgetoid | and the n900.. i never really believed theyd honor the cheeky discounts |
| 10:08.21 | *** join/#maemo zap_ (n=zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net) |
| 10:08.27 | Gadgetoid | there's a toyota starlet wheel in my back garden... i feel so chavvy |
| 10:08.53 | johnx | Gadgetoid, keen. what year? |
| 10:08.57 | GAN900 | Our fearless leader is really good at ordering tapas. |
| 10:09.04 | Myrtti | god i need that widget |
| 10:09.12 | Termana | Gadgetoid - bit old discussion, but still - don't let any of these people fool you, they are vampires, they stay up till 4 in the morning and then hide away from the sun all day |
| 10:09.14 | johnx | god I need a tapa |
| 10:09.30 | Myrtti | I've miscalculated my rows again :-( |
| 10:09.34 | Gadgetoid | I'm a curry man |
| 10:09.41 | Myrtti | this will end up a shitty beret |
| 10:09.53 | johnx | Termana, yeah. I hide away at work, though actually my coworkers make me keep the blinds closed so they don't get glare on their screens ... hmmm |
| 10:10.00 | Gadgetoid | sound about rightt termana... timezones are a poor excuse |
| 10:10.03 | Termana | Myrtti: Gadgetoid's curry? |
| 10:10.20 | Gadgetoid | hahaha |
| 10:10.27 | Gadgetoid | ring burn |
| 10:10.31 | Myrtti | Termana: :-( |
| 10:10.39 | flux | recently there was some demo about synchronizing pc firefox with the n900 browser, anyone have an url handy? |
| 10:10.56 | johnx | Myrtti, don't feel bad. I've had really poor luck making curry into any decent sort of hat. :| |
| 10:11.16 | Gadgetoid | flux real geeks remember all the important urls |
| 10:11.32 | *** join/#maemo zs_ (n=zs@188-220-50-10.zone11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 10:11.33 | flux | gadgetoid, yes :( |
| 10:11.38 | Myrtti | meh. I'm trying to knit a christmas present to my sister and I need a row counter :-/ |
| 10:11.43 | Myrtti | you're no fun |
| 10:11.59 | DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, I did some tests with GPS and it's mostly behaving great. With and w/o AGPS net download. I,d dare to say it's obviously storing the seed data and reuses it on next start. Nevertheless I had a really hard time to put it to work when zthat data was "old" and network connectivity was supposed to be there but had stalled. |
| 10:12.34 | *** join/#maemo DantonicN800 (n=user@c-24-7-146-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 10:12.42 | johnx | DocScrutinizer-8, yup. the problem is when it only has data to work with that's more than, say, half a day old |
| 10:12.49 | Gadgetoid | flux mainly because most of them contain a small subset of related words... such as wet, teens, nubile, win |
| 10:12.58 | johnx | and especially if you've moved a good distance since your last fix |
| 10:13.43 | johnx | flux, was it about fennec? |
| 10:13.54 | flux | johnx, ah, I think it was |
| 10:14.11 | johnx | http://lifehacker.com/5159079/firefox-mobile-aka-fennec-will-sync-tabs-with-firefox-on-your-desktop |
| 10:14.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, that's kinda known common problem with all GPS. you can confuse hell out of chipset when uploading "wrong" data to it |
| 10:14.38 | Gadgetoid | sync tabs? |
| 10:15.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, you know the filename of the seed file? |
| 10:15.37 | SpeedEvil | johnx: "" |
| 10:15.43 | johnx | DocScrutinizer-8, nope. look in /var maybe? |
| 10:15.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | tried |
| 10:16.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | maybe I'm too tired |
| 10:16.11 | *** join/#maemo BabelO (n=fcr@unaffiliated/babelo) |
| 10:16.18 | Gadgetoid | cafeworld is retarded |
| 10:16.58 | johnx | Gadgetoid, a world where the only businesses are cafes? |
| 10:17.11 | johnx | I'd put on some weight there, for sure |
| 10:18.11 | Gadgetoid | the facebook game, designed to draw gameplay over long and agonizing hours which you spend wholly alone instead of in an immersive social environment like world of warcraft |
| 10:18.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, I,d suggest to check internet connectivity prior to gps start. if no ping: delete too old file and disable network support setting for gps |
| 10:18.53 | johnx | Gadgetoid, huh. is it anything like working at a cafe? |
| 10:19.09 | flux | johnx, thank you. although it's not as useful as I hoped, as it'd also require switching to that browser.. |
| 10:19.27 | johnx | DocScrutinizer51, I'm actually trying to abuse lsof into cluing me in on what happens when I get an assisted fix |
| 10:19.34 | johnx | haven't caught it in the act yet though |
| 10:19.37 | Gadgetoid | no johnx... it totally lacks hot, coffee drinking chicks |
| 10:20.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, I'm not sure if that,ll pan out. probably short read and closing file |
| 10:20.15 | Gadgetoid | i'm drinking ceylon tea because i watched too much battlestar |
| 10:20.20 | johnx | Gadgetoid, but does it include a simulation of deepfrying hashbrowns and french fries, leaving you with the smell of grease permanently embedded in your skin? |
| 10:21.08 | Gadgetoid | no johnx... it doesnt seem to |
| 10:21.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, I tried to find new files (mdate) __ fail |
| 10:21.40 | Gadgetoid | words for the morning: i made a poo daddy |
| 10:21.49 | johnx | Gadgetoid, well, then it could be worse. you at least get minimum wage for playing, right? |
| 10:22.08 | johnx | DocScrutinizer-8, interesting, I was about to use a much more crude version of that same tactic |
| 10:22.13 | tigert | woop |
| 10:22.18 | tigert | new gpodder in repo |
| 10:22.20 | Stskeeps | woo |
| 10:22.31 | johnx | tigert, doom upside down? |
| 10:22.34 | tigert | some new stuff we worked on yesterday |
| 10:22.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, anyway I think without any file chipset is better off than with "wrong" one |
| 10:23.15 | tigert | johnx: :) ¡ɯÉuÊÇÄ±Ê 'Æuıuɹoɯ pooÆ |
| 10:23.39 | tigert | not everything we sketched is in the new release yet though |
| 10:23.49 | Gadgetoid | no johnx... i would lose money opotentially... it makes no sense! |
| 10:23.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, and not even trying to access internet is clearly better than waiting for response never to come |
| 10:24.19 | *** join/#maemo igagis (n=igagis@ns2.vsev.lanck.net) |
| 10:24.32 | johnx | Gadgetoid, I have a better game for you then. It doesn't pay any money either, but you get to sit at my desk and answer support tickets for 8 hours, 5 days a week. interested? |
| 10:24.53 | johnx | DocScrutinizer51, you really think it's blocking trying to access the net? |
| 10:24.56 | johnx | that'd be pretty silly |
| 10:25.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, I suspect that, yes |
| 10:26.00 | johnx | huh. maybe there is hope for improving it with some simple hacks then... |
| 10:27.11 | *** join/#maemo Gadgetoid_iMac (n=phil@cpc3-nrwh9-2-0-cust561.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 10:27.26 | Gadgetoid_iMac | hell no johnx, I left "tech requests" behind when I was made redundant |
| 10:28.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, yeah. like I suggested above |
| 10:28.06 | Gadgetoid_iMac | And then turned from being a DotNet developer to a PHP developer overnight |
| 10:28.30 | *** join/#maemo sven_ (n=sven@p4FDD3DC1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:28.33 | johnx | Gadgetoid_iMac, is that change a good thing or bad thing? |
| 10:28.45 | *** join/#maemo ashenbur (n=user@165-138-8.connect.netcom.no) |
| 10:28.48 | *** join/#maemo pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0C0BA.access.telenet.be) |
| 10:29.20 | Gadgetoid_iMac | johnx, it's simultaneously good and bad... but at least it's for a company that does both DotNet and PHP so I can bounce merrily from language to language like a sexually confused emo |
| 10:29.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, first test: disable network support in gps setup prior to starting it with a obsolete data |
| 10:29.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | simple |
| 10:30.31 | johnx | DocScrutinizer-8, disable...how? |
| 10:30.51 | Gadgetoid_iMac | looks up how best to cook bacon roast chicken |
| 10:30.56 | *** join/#maemo sleipnir (n=sleipnir@p4FDD3DC1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:31.13 | johnx | Gadgetoid_iMac, well that sounds ... convenient? |
| 10:31.53 | Gadgetoid_iMac | johnx, Yeah I had the new job before I even volunteered redundancy at my last one, which I'd been secretly willing to make me redundant for the best part of a year... what a lovely recession! |
| 10:32.31 | Gadgetoid_iMac | And self employment means I get a tax refund on the cost of my tools... which just so happen to be computers... aaaah! |
| 10:32.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, setup location network |
| 10:32.38 | johnx | it was the best of recessions, it was the worst of recessions? |
| 10:32.53 | Gadgetoid_iMac | the *blurst of recessions |
| 10:33.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, directly above field for AGPS server url |
| 11:21.17 | *** join/#maemo infobot (i=ibot@rikers.org) |
| 11:21.17 | *** topic/#maemo is to: Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Maemo-Barcelona Long Weekend - Registrations open - http://tinyurl.com/ydv6p62 |
| 11:21.31 | GAN900 | Bunch of drunk Maemo folks on the metro. |
| 11:21.38 | GAN900 | "It's about the people." |
| 11:21.54 | Stskeeps | xorAxAx: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337 - i personally think they should 1) allow N810 style AGPS (plot in on a map where you are) or 2) actually caching SUPL data |
| 11:21.55 | povbot` | Bug 5337: Can't get GPS lock without network connection |
| 11:21.55 | tigert | =) |
| 11:22.04 | tigert | GAN900: well, it is =) |
| 11:22.14 | tigert | GAN900: who would put up with this shit without the people? :D |
| 11:22.37 | tigert | sure the gadgets help a bit :) |
| 11:22.58 | *** join/#maemo Ashenburge (n=user@21.81-167-27.customer.lyse.net) |
| 11:23.12 | Gadgetoid_iMac | I installed Starcraft on my N810, was getting tired of Diablo |
| 11:23.27 | sejo | what is the resolution for the n900? |
| 11:23.31 | Gadgetoid_iMac | 800*480 |
| 11:23.43 | sejo | thx |
| 11:23.45 | Stskeeps | Gadgetoid_iMac: i wouldn't mind starcraft on my n810. |
| 11:23.47 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Milestone is 853*something isn't it |
| 11:23.52 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Stskeeps wouldn't that be lovely :D |
| 11:24.35 | ashenburger | seriously? diablo runs on the 810? is the project still alive? (i.e any chance of it seeing a fremantle release)? |
| 11:24.52 | Stskeeps | ashenburger: diablo is maemo 4.1.2 |
| 11:24.58 | Gadgetoid_iMac | listens for the sound of his terrible joke wooshing over ashenburger's head |
| 11:25.02 | *** join/#maemo cure` (n=cure@rzavelli.demon.nl) |
| 11:25.30 | *** join/#maemo fab_ (n=bellet@bellet.info) |
| 11:26.22 | GAN900 | tigert, no, I agree 100% it's just mildly funny applying that to a bunch of drunk people on themtraon. *g* |
| 11:26.25 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Implementing a page class in php with an isPostBack function is, perhaps, a little bit sad... |
| 11:26.28 | ashenburger | oops, guess I got a bit carried away there :p |
| 11:26.33 | *** join/#maemo pgquiles_ (n=pgquiles@84.88.33.150) |
| 11:26.45 | ashenburger | I did see a Baldur's Gate on an 810 though :) |
| 11:26.52 | Gadgetoid_iMac | We'd all love Diablo and Starcraft on our portables, Ashenburger... they're one of the holy grail |
| 11:27.19 | Gadgetoid_iMac | I did an article covering all the lovely games I could get to run on my Samsung NC10, but it's just not pocketable |
| 11:27.30 | tigert | GAN900: yeah, I know |
| 11:27.47 | tigert | I knew you agreed too |
| 11:28.00 | tigert | GAN900: I can imagine the scene very well =) |
| 11:28.16 | tigert | given the good meal and company at the restaurant earlier :) |
| 11:28.20 | GAN900 | Er, s/themtraon/the metro/ |
| 11:28.34 | sejo | is there a way to change the wallpaper? |
| 11:28.40 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 11:28.41 | cehteh | yes |
| 11:29.14 | sejo | and how would that be? |
| 11:29.15 | sejo | :p |
| 11:29.17 | homeasvs_ | lardmin, ok, it configures by default for target arm-linux-gnueabi |
| 11:29.29 | homeasvs_ | lardman, how can I see a list of alternative targets, and which one would you recommend instead ? |
| 11:30.16 | SpeedEvil | click on hte empty desktop. Click the 'gear' - click the menu area to get 'change wallpaper' |
| 11:30.24 | *** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@stgt-5f73a44a.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 11:30.27 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Damn you Disney Channel, damn you, now I want to slip Demi Lovato the sausage too |
| 11:30.53 | tigert | damn |
| 11:30.57 | tigert | BBC is so smart |
| 11:31.06 | tigert | "this podcast is available only in the UK" |
| 11:31.20 | SpeedEvil | Why damn you? |
| 11:31.23 | tigert | so isnt the point of podcasting partly that you can get it when you are travelling |
| 11:31.57 | SpeedEvil | tigert: you should get with the times! |
| 11:32.16 | Gadgetoid_iMac | SpeedEvil, there's only so many 17 year old Disney stars I can have pillows of before my wife gets suspicious |
| 11:32.36 | *** join/#maemo dimir_ (n=dimir@dimir.eu) |
| 11:32.40 | SpeedEvil | VPN out of the UK so the government can't log you, VPN in so you can get UK content when abroad. |
| 11:32.50 | tigert | SpeedEvil: yeah :D |
| 11:32.54 | Gadgetoid_iMac | I mean, she raised an eyebrow when I added Zac Efron |
| 11:33.35 | sejo | thx SpeedEvil |
| 11:33.55 | *** join/#maemo shdb (n=shdb@80-218-240-206.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:37.06 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer51 (n=Joerg_rw@200.194.116.85.dsl.manitu.net) |
| 11:37.19 | *** join/#maemo gn_ (n=gn_@117.204.2.104) |
| 11:38.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil, found the pickle file? |
| 11:38.51 | Termana | Gadgetoid_iMac: If I was your wife and you put in a Zac Efron pillow - I'd be raising eyebrows as well |
| 11:39.03 | *** join/#maemo IcanCU (n=IcanCU@195-240-105-32.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 11:39.16 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Termana, I was kidding... it was a Depp pillow |
| 11:39.33 | Termana | Just as bad |
| 11:39.38 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Actually, I wonder if there are Depp pillows... I'm secure enough about my sexuality to want one of those |
| 11:40.10 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Then I can stick my hand inside it, and use it as a Depp puppet |
| 11:40.17 | Termana | But is your wife secure enough of your sexuality? |
| 11:40.29 | Gadgetoid_iMac | "I didn't dutch oven you, it was Depp!" |
| 11:40.51 | Gadgetoid_iMac | That's a good question... |
| 11:41.36 | lardman | this is what happens when people start using Apple products |
| 11:41.37 | homeasvs_ | lardman, #define __NR_sched_getaffinity 242 <-- sounds like one I could live without if it is implemented as a noop |
| 11:41.50 | Myrtti | tragedy of my life, my oven baking pan fits only one ready made pizza or pizza base |
| 11:42.05 | lardman | homeasvs_: no idea I'm afraid |
| 11:42.21 | timeless_mbp | pokes people w/ n900s |
| 11:42.24 | Gadgetoid_iMac | That may be true lardman |
| 11:42.25 | lardman | you looking at the qemu source here? |
| 11:42.26 | timeless_mbp | lardman? :) |
| 11:42.36 | lardman | hi timeless_mbp |
| 11:42.43 | homeasvs_ | lardman, any idea about the hosts I could use instead of my arm-linux-gbeu one ? |
| 11:42.57 | Gadgetoid_iMac | HAI timeless_mbp! |
| 11:43.11 | timeless_mbp | hello |
| 11:43.21 | timeless_mbp | lardman: so.... got time to play? :) |
| 11:43.22 | lardman | homeasvs_: you might find a later version of qemu, or use the cpu transparency, but you'll need a device then |
| 11:43.27 | *** join/#maemo ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |
| 11:43.32 | lardman | timeless_mbp: not really, how long will it take? |
| 11:43.41 | ruskie | lo |
| 11:43.41 | lardman | am testing code atm |
| 11:43.49 | Termana | lardman - sounds viable (re: apple products and the discussion) - I'm using OS X at the moment as well |
| 11:43.52 | timeless_mbp | lardman: you can install and use it recreationally |
| 11:43.53 | Gadgetoid_iMac | I'm "working" |
| 11:44.14 | Termana | Gadgetoid_iMac: Working on your communication abilities? |
| 11:44.17 | lardman | timeless_mbp: go on then |
| 11:44.49 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Termana I hope not! I wouldn't be much cop as a "journalist" otherwise, I'm writing some lovely PHP |
| 11:47.22 | homeasvs_ | cool, erlang's configure is testing for presence of those syscalls |
| 11:47.27 | *** join/#maemo zenvoid_ (n=rgs@241.pool85-53-206.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 11:47.31 | homeasvs_ | so if I fake that out, tell it it's not there, I should be able to build |
| 11:48.13 | *** join/#maemo Vratha (n=grimw@ool-4a58d87f.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 11:48.16 | *** join/#maemo alexj_ (n=alexj@nat/yahoo/x-ohjswffarbzczjcr) |
| 11:48.35 | Vratha | hello there |
| 11:48.54 | Vratha | just got my n900 and have been playing around with it |
| 11:48.56 | Vratha | pretty spiffy device |
| 11:49.09 | Vratha | still trying to figure out how to tether |
| 11:50.37 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: no - oddly |
| 11:53.44 | timeless_mbp | how do i undo a thumbs down? |
| 11:54.51 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A126AC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:55.17 | *** join/#maemo yannj (n=yannj@cvl92-3-82-247-218-20.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:58.27 | *** join/#maemo ManuelSE (n=Manuel@p54B2C16C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:02.15 | ruskie | I'm trying to roll my own modest package but I'm getting: checking for MODEST_GSTUFF... configure: error: The pkg-config script could not be found or is too old. Make sure it is in your PATH or set the PKG_CONFIG environment variable to the full path to pkg-config. - of course this inside of ... |
| 12:02.19 | ruskie | ... scratchbox... I've already succesfully rolled my own zsh and tinymail so not really sure what's wrong... |
| 12:02.32 | *** join/#maemo fnordianslip (n=fnoridan@94-30-69-47.xdsl.murphx.net) |
| 12:02.40 | timeless_mbp | is pkg-config installed? |
| 12:02.47 | ruskie | yes |
| 12:02.55 | ruskie | which pkg-config |
| 12:03.03 | ruskie | unless it needs to be somewhere else as well |
| 12:03.06 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Söndagen! |
| 12:03.40 | DocScrutinizer-8 | SpeedEvil: noatime, noMtime?? |
| 12:03.42 | ruskie | config.log isn't much help in this case... and it's only on MODEST_GSTUFF that it's failing :( |
| 12:03.47 | Vratha | sweet; got the n900 tethering via my mac |
| 12:04.03 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Bluetooth, Vratha? |
| 12:04.09 | Vratha | nah, usb |
| 12:04.13 | Vratha | don't know how to do it via bt |
| 12:04.14 | Gadgetoid_iMac | OO, even better |
| 12:04.17 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: and not having time to fiddle with it |
| 12:04.23 | timeless_mbp | so, can someone talk me though the maemo boot sequence? :) |
| 12:04.34 | SpeedEvil | timeless: you pressw th |
| 12:04.39 | SpeedEvil | the button, and it boots |
| 12:04.39 | Vratha | Gadgetoid_iMac: heh, yeah, but i notice t-mobile isn't as fast as when i tried my iphone with a jailbreak |
| 12:04.43 | ashenburger | hmm is there any disadvantages to connecting to an adhoc wifi network? power consumtion being the big issue |
| 12:04.47 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Well, you see some dots, then a handshake... and up comes Maemo... pretty simply really timeless_mbp |
| 12:04.48 | lardman | timeless_mbp: add it to the init.d scripts perhaps? |
| 12:04.51 | Vratha | at&t i guess can claim the speed crown there |
| 12:05.02 | timeless_mbp | lardman: maemo uses upstart afaiu |
| 12:05.11 | lardman | lol |
| 12:05.13 | Gadgetoid_iMac | You said it ashenburger, chews through power like there's no tomorrow |
| 12:05.13 | lardman | oh well |
| 12:05.19 | lardman | same sort of thing I guess though |
| 12:05.40 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Even a dedicated device like the Mifi can only offer internet via Wifi for about 4.5 hours |
| 12:05.41 | timeless_mbp | oh sure |
| 12:05.48 | timeless_mbp | but i probably could figure out init.d :) |
| 12:05.59 | ruskie | Gadgetoid_iMac, I'd say that's due to a poor battery ;) |
| 12:06.48 | DocScrutinizer-8 | well there's still /etc/init.d/foo* |
| 12:06.52 | Gadgetoid_iMac | They're 1530mAh batteries ruskie, so you could be right- I've got 3 of 'em though |
| 12:07.17 | timeless_mbp | so... |
| 12:07.49 | ruskie | Gadgetoid_iMac, :) I'd like a an 8kmAh battery for such a device ;) |
| 12:07.49 | timeless_mbp | is it evil to have a script that deletes itself from /etc/init.d/ ? :) |
| 12:07.51 | ruskie | goes back to hammering away at trying to build modest... |
| 12:07.54 | ashenburger | oh well on the upside it looks like the n900 is working, but my wifi router is not :/ |
| 12:08.07 | *** join/#maemo viggi (n=viggi@cs181166131.pp.htv.fi) |
| 12:08.49 | DocScrutinizer-8 | timeless_mbp: can't see severy problems when done correctly |
| 12:09.11 | *** part/#maemo gn_ (n=gn_@117.204.2.104) |
| 12:09.46 | timeless_mbp | oh brother |
| 12:09.59 | timeless_mbp | i bet i don't have access to /opt at this point |
| 12:10.10 | Gadgetoid_iMac | I did think, ruskie, that it would be better with a belt clip and a fahookin' massive battery.. there's no real need for it to be small. If you're carrying a freakin' router around to give yourself internet access then you've probably got a good sized bag |
| 12:10.56 | lardman | timeless_mbp: have spotted a bug in your strings |
| 12:11.22 | lardman | you have "Cell" for "Mobile", the former means nothing |
| 12:11.32 | timeless_mbp | ouch |
| 12:11.39 | timeless_mbp | sad that you're the first person to spot that |
| 12:11.39 | lardman | You've also changed "Work" to "Business", the latter is preferable imo |
| 12:11.50 | timeless_mbp | clearly engb isn't tested heavily |
| 12:12.10 | SpeedEvil | Cellphone is a recognised term |
| 12:12.14 | SpeedEvil | Cell too |
| 12:12.20 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: it's wrong for engb |
| 12:12.22 | SpeedEvil | but it will get you looked at wierdly. |
| 12:12.22 | timeless_mbp | and i know better |
| 12:12.24 | lardman | Mobile is more normal |
| 12:12.38 | timeless_mbp | lardman: #merl10n please |
| 12:12.58 | Gadgetoid_iMac | "Cell"phone is quite an obtusely technical term for such a ubiquitous gadget |
| 12:13.25 | Gadgetoid_iMac | It's like calling a car, a Combustiontorotarymotionvehicle |
| 12:13.42 | timeless_mbp | Gadgetoid_iMac: enough |
| 12:13.47 | timeless_mbp | i screwed up. bad merge |
| 12:14.08 | Gadgetoid_iMac | I mean timeless_mbp, we should force americans to say "mobile phone" too! |
| 12:14.13 | SpeedEvil | Gadgetoid_iMac: linear, unless you're doing it wrong. |
| 12:14.23 | derf | Gadgetoid_iMac: Good luck with that. |
| 12:14.33 | Gadgetoid_iMac | What can I say SpeedEvil.. I can only drive in circles... |
| 12:14.57 | Gadgetoid_iMac | It's easy derf, we just sneak it in via a new HTML tag |
| 12:15.28 | aquatix | :) |
| 12:18.23 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Hmm I need a little porting project I can fiddle with on Maemo, I'd probably be in over my head... getting things to work properly on Dingux was pain enough |
| 12:19.28 | SpeedEvil | Gadgetoid: wine+qemu? :) |
| 12:20.16 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Hahaha |
| 12:20.40 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Yeah... starcraft in slideshow mode, that's a worthy goal |
| 12:21.09 | SpeedEvil | Make the keyboard lights flash to indicate network traffic |
| 12:21.16 | SpeedEvil | Or the notification light |
| 12:21.34 | _JP_ | port KeePassX, I could really use it :) |
| 12:21.48 | SpeedEvil | 'KITT' mode for the keyboard lights. (the 6 lights are independant) |
| 12:22.05 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Really? |
| 12:22.11 | *** join/#maemo oops6_4 (n=abhishek@115.184.16.93) |
| 12:22.24 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 12:22.34 | SpeedEvil | there are 6 lights across the keyboard all independant. |
| 12:22.34 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Sounds like a register prodding adventure, or something |
| 12:22.40 | SpeedEvil | and with seperate brightnesses |
| 12:22.50 | SpeedEvil | /sys/class/LED/lp5???/*kb* |
| 12:22.55 | SpeedEvil | or something like that |
| 12:22.57 | cehteh | hehe i want a capacitative keyboard! |
| 12:23.18 | homeasvs_ | is there an up-to-date guide for setting up cpu transparency ? can only find stuff for maemo 4 |
| 12:23.18 | cehteh | light by proximity :P |
| 12:23.18 | oops6_4 | Hi I have compiled my won qt application in scratchobox and tested on scratchbox simulator now how can I test it actually on my device I have n810 |
| 12:23.44 | homeasvs_ | trying to figure out how to use sbrsh-conf |
| 12:23.48 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (n=magao@84.79.25.26) |
| 12:23.51 | cehteh | what color is the keyboard light? |
| 12:23.55 | SpeedEvil | white |
| 12:23.57 | Gadgetoid_iMac | interesting /sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb1 - kb6 |
| 12:24.08 | Gadgetoid_iMac | HAHAHA |
| 12:24.17 | Gadgetoid_iMac | tw14030:vibrator |
| 12:24.20 | Gadgetoid_iMac | I'm so immature |
| 12:24.50 | cehteh | you can control the vibrators bightness :) |
| 12:25.41 | Gadgetoid_iMac | dare I echo 1 >> brightness ? |
| 12:25.49 | Gadgetoid_iMac | I don't know what the fsck I'm doing |
| 12:25.51 | SpeedEvil | 1 doesn't make it vibrate |
| 12:26.02 | SpeedEvil | the threshold on the way up is about 20, and down is about 14 |
| 12:26.13 | SpeedEvil | (rotation rather - vibration at this speed cannot be felt) |
| 12:26.52 | Corsac | sounds like fun |
| 12:27.27 | timeless_mbp | !summon qwerty |
| 12:27.27 | cehteh | you prolly want to tune that to be in resonance with the device mass |
| 12:27.57 | SpeedEvil | You can optimise for accelleration through the accellerometers |
| 12:28.13 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A126AC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:29.47 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Lord knows I've probably borked something up now |
| 12:33.23 | *** join/#maemo mece (n=user@YYMXXXI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 12:33.29 | mece | hey |
| 12:37.56 | DocScrutinizer-8 | SpeedEvil: your profund knowledge about vibrator behaviour makes me wonder... |
| 12:38.18 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Vibrator brightness, for sharing in the dark |
| 12:38.23 | DocScrutinizer-8 | how can you tell without disassembling the device? |
| 12:38.35 | oops6_4 | Hi I have compiled my won qt application in scratchobox and tested on scratchbox simulator now how can I test it actually on my device I have n810 ? |
| 12:39.13 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: you can hear the pwm driving signal modulated by the motor rotation |
| 12:40.12 | DocScrutinizer-8 | SpeedEvil: spoken like a real EE ;-D |
| 12:41.59 | _JP_ | I was told that SSHFS is in extras-testing, but I cant find it. Or is it in devel? |
| 12:42.34 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Shh, FS! |
| 12:42.41 | DocScrutinizer-8 | SpeedEvil: is there any summary of the /sys and maybe /dev nodes? |
| 12:43.22 | Gadgetoid_iMac | Neither can I, _JP_, it must have an obscure name |
| 12:46.22 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: no - I was planning on populating the hardware links I made on the n900 page with them |
| 12:46.36 | SpeedEvil | Or not AFAIK |
| 12:48.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil, well the kbd-leds were a nice kickoff |
| 12:48.20 | SpeedEvil | I'm impressed with the battery life - Coming up on 21h active with wifi on, doing a while (sleep 20) in bash |
| 12:48.28 | SpeedEvil | and logging battery level |
| 12:48.37 | SpeedEvil | With maybe an hours use in that time too |
| 12:50.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, I had 23h with 50% lightwight use incl backlight and 100% wifi and IRC |
| 12:50.40 | _JP_ | Gadgetoid_iMac: Found it in extras-devel, seems I was misinformed it being in testing... |
| 12:50.48 | *** join/#maemo Dang3rMaus (n=Thumper@tuxhacker/loft306) |
| 12:53.13 | *** join/#maemo juliank (n=juliank@ubuntu/member/juliank) |
| 12:57.14 | *** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@cs181192153.pp.htv.fi) |
| 12:57.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil, to me it seemed like reported bat charge in mAh was quite jumpy. Like to share your bat log? |
| 12:58.26 | timeless_mbp | grumbles |
| 12:58.48 | timeless_mbp | anyone here willing to admit some degree of familiarity with hildon/gtk? |
| 12:59.19 | *** join/#maemo Dang3rMaus (n=Thumper@adsl-68-248-235-203.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) |
| 12:59.41 | Dang3rMaus | hehe |
| 13:00.08 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: very |
| 13:02.28 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/Sat%20Dec%20%205%2017:20:10%20GMT%202009 |
| 13:02.43 | SpeedEvil | format should be obvcious |
| 13:03.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil, hal reports 8 "unit: bars". Thismcorresponds with batget (watching it charge). But I couldn't make a story out of max_charge / 8 or similar equations |
| 13:04.02 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer51: go check out toggles_w's open hald-addon-bme |
| 13:04.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | he |
| 13:04.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | Stskeeps, where to find? |
| 13:04.39 | Stskeeps | http://gitorious.org/mer-toggles/hald-addon-bme |
| 13:04.59 | DocScrutinizer51 | thanks |
| 13:05.16 | Stskeeps | not sure if protocol changed in rx-51 though |
| 13:05.38 | GAN900 | X-Fade, ping? |
| 13:06.06 | GAN900 | Stskeeps, you wouldn't happen to know where mediawiki resides? |
| 13:06.26 | Stskeeps | the sw? |
| 13:06.35 | GAN900 | Yeah |
| 13:06.42 | GAN900 | dneary wants access. |
| 13:06.53 | Stskeeps | ah - no idea |
| 13:06.59 | Stskeeps | i don't have access to maemo.org servers |
| 13:07.02 | GAN900 | We need to play with the default stylesheets. |
| 13:07.13 | GAN900 | Bleh, how useless can you get. :P |
| 13:07.25 | Stskeeps | sitting in my couch and working - very! |
| 13:07.26 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 13:07.31 | Stskeeps | on, that is |
| 13:07.51 | GAN900 | Unless it's a very fluffy couch. |
| 13:09.11 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@a88-112-120-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 13:10.47 | Ceron^ | when will i abe able to video chat |
| 13:10.50 | Ceron^ | trough skype |
| 13:10.52 | Ceron^ | with n900? |
| 13:11.01 | Ceron^ | i would want that feature :D |
| 13:12.54 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: shiiiit that's weird! |
| 13:13.48 | DocScrutinizer | got the log in kwrite and speeding thru a mostly static screen with ^f / F3 /shift-F3 |
| 13:14.12 | DocScrutinizer | feels like timemachine |
| 13:17.54 | *** join/#maemo lazni (n=lazni@118.71.22.84) |
| 13:18.37 | Gadgetoid | hmm if only the wiimote analogue worked with quake |
| 13:20.46 | *** join/#maemo prusnak (n=stick@hostivar-0053.koleje.cuni.cz) |
| 13:21.16 | SpeedEvil | Well - it's bluetooth - you have hte source |
| 13:21.42 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: Am I right this hald-addon-bme is basically the code that creates what we see in lshal for battery status? |
| 13:22.26 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: right, we made a open implementation that pokes BME (please don't investigate anything else than the information gathering stuff we put up) |
| 13:22.54 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/BME_Protocol |
| 13:23.02 | DocScrutinizer | aah thanks |
| 13:23.28 | *** join/#maemo oops6_42 (n=abhishek@115.184.75.249) |
| 13:23.31 | oops6_42 | Hi I have compiled my won qt application in scratchobox and tested on scratchbox simulator now how can I test it actually on my device I have n810 ? |
| 13:23.41 | Stskeeps | oops6_42: did you make a .deb package? |
| 13:24.06 | *** join/#maemo tonikitoo (n=tonikito@201-75-13-5-ma.cpe.vivax.com.br) |
| 13:24.14 | sivang | likes to get .debs for Xmas! |
| 13:24.16 | sivang | :) |
| 13:24.21 | oops6_42 | Stskeeps: no how to so that at is that necessary? |
| 13:24.25 | *** join/#maemo trbs (n=trbs@82-169-23-132.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 13:24.30 | sivang | guys, what the way to install a bash on the Maemo SDK ? |
| 13:24.38 | sivang | scratchbox, for that matter |
| 13:24.39 | Stskeeps | sivang: sdk should already have bash |
| 13:24.50 | Stskeeps | oops6_42: well, either that or you can copy the binary manually and install needed libs on device |
| 13:24.51 | sivang | Stskeeps: where do I access it from? I didn't see it on the apps list |
| 13:25.12 | Stskeeps | sivang: dpkg -l |
| 13:25.18 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=rsalveti@190.55.142.169) |
| 13:25.21 | Stskeeps | sivang: i'm quite sure scratchbox has bash |
| 13:25.22 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 13:25.30 | sivang | Stskeeps: right, but I want to run it from the Xephyr session |
| 13:25.33 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: this is information recovery ministery here. No plans to go beyond what you deliver in hald-addon-bme ;-P |
| 13:25.34 | ManuelSE | mmpc - music player client daemon is the greatest app on maemo |
| 13:25.55 | ManuelSE | now i control the heavenly sounds through the whole house |
| 13:26.13 | ManuelSE | needs to support multichannel volume tho |
| 13:26.26 | sivang | Stskeeps: from within the session, e.g. be able to run apps from bash and see the result whilst developing using Qt |
| 13:26.33 | Stskeeps | sivang: osso-xterm? :P |
| 13:26.35 | ManuelSE | np don kosaken chor |
| 13:26.45 | sivang | Stskeeps: /me checks |
| 13:26.51 | Stskeeps | X-Terminal, that is |
| 13:26.59 | oops6_42 | Stskeeps: and to install need lib on the device I need internet on my device that what I don't have currently so I think debpackage is good idea but can you redirect me to the link where I can get the steps |
| 13:27.39 | Stskeeps | oops6_42: copy the binary to your device over mass storage and chmod +x it when copied into /home/user..? |
| 13:28.26 | oops6_42 | Stskeeps: ok I will try |
| 13:28.28 | jebba | hmm. woke up to a hung fone. Left a web page with qik.com open. Probably flash leaking all night or something. My alarm did go off though, at least. |
| 13:28.33 | sivang | Stskeeps: I have to setup the SDK on this machine. I set it up on my netbook first which worked great except for some sluggines |
| 13:28.34 | *** part/#maemo DocScrutinizer51 (n=Joerg_rw@200.194.116.85.dsl.manitu.net) |
| 13:28.50 | sivang | Stskeeps: I will let you in a acouple of minutes if I can find it on the apps list |
| 13:29.34 | sivang | what is the VDSO paramter? |
| 13:29.44 | sivang | why need it be set for scratchbox ? |
| 13:29.50 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: you know GTA02 battery? Is BL-5J similar CC-chip design, or is it a "stupid" bat like BL-5C and the calculations are done in N900 hardware? |
| 13:30.27 | SpeedEvil | I have a 1G SD card in. 'backup' says the filesystem is read-only. It's a mounted vfat fs, mounted rw. Thoughts? |
| 13:30.46 | sivang | ah! vsyscall page |
| 13:30.47 | sivang | :) |
| 13:30.49 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: i don't know. battery handling is done in software |
| 13:30.56 | oops6_42 | Stskeeps: Thanks man working |
| 13:31.02 | Macer | SpeedEvil: yeah. spend $2 and get a 4G sd :) |
| 13:31.14 | jebba | underneath the battery (which i just had to yank....), there are three sets of pins on other motherboard that are visible. They look like they might be serial or usb or jtag or .... anyone know? |
| 13:31.15 | SpeedEvil | Macer: It needs 4? |
| 13:31.34 | DocScrutinizer | yep, I know. But e.g. where is the NTC to probe battemp. Where's the capacity calculated? |
| 13:31.37 | SpeedEvil | jebba: For $10, you may be able to find out |
| 13:31.41 | jebba | haha |
| 13:31.45 | jebba | how's that? |
| 13:31.48 | *** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 13:31.51 | *** join/#maemo CShadowRun (n=cshadowr@cshadowrun.com) |
| 13:31.52 | SpeedEvil | jebba: there is a site with the level 4 manual available |
| 13:31.58 | sivang | hey jebba |
| 13:31.58 | Macer | haha |
| 13:32.01 | SpeedEvil | which can contain schematics |
| 13:32.02 | sivang | jebba: what's up? |
| 13:32.03 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: aah, sorry to nag. You told you don't know |
| 13:32.04 | SpeedEvil | but it's not free |
| 13:32.10 | jebba | hey sivang |
| 13:32.21 | Macer | i'm updating macports |
| 13:32.24 | SpeedEvil | Macer: also - 4G for $2 - where? |
| 13:32.25 | sivang | jebba: you a nokian ? :) |
| 13:32.27 | Macer | :) |
| 13:32.33 | Macer | SpeedEvil: i was teasing |
| 13:32.47 | jebba | sivang: i have an n900 but dont work there if that's what you're asking |
| 13:32.49 | Macer | although i managed to buy a 4G from tigerdirect with adapters for like $10 |
| 13:32.56 | sivang | jebba: yes, I was wondering :) |
| 13:33.10 | SpeedEvil | Ah. /me is having extreme cashflow problems ATM. |
| 13:33.20 | Arkenoi | is there a note taking application that allows inserting sketches (and maybe even camera shots)? the point is taking notes quickly.. |
| 13:33.23 | sivang | SpeedEvil: join the club :) |
| 13:33.37 | sivang | Arkenoi: we should take Tomboy and make it a such |
| 13:33.47 | sivang | Arkenoi: howeer, not sure of mono could be ported to ARM |
| 13:33.52 | sivang | armel, for that matter |
| 13:34.06 | sivang | Arkenoi: I've had this thoughts for mono for long now |
| 13:34.11 | sivang | err |
| 13:34.16 | sivang | s/mono/Tomboy/ |
| 13:34.17 | sejo | hmm anyone having bad voice calls with sip? |
| 13:34.34 | jebba | sivang: there is conboy, which is tomboy in c |
| 13:34.48 | sivang | hmm, the installer should have better progress represetation for the download process of the scratchbox debs |
| 13:35.10 | DocScrutinizer | jebba: http://www.google.de/search?q=N900_RX-51_SM_L3%264.pdf |
| 13:35.11 | jebba | sejo: i tried to set up my ekiga.net account with it, but couldn't get it going. I could make a SIP call *into* the fone when it was runnign asterisk :) |
| 13:35.15 | Arkenoi | uses sip as primary callout method when wifi is available, works even better than GSM ;-) |
| 13:35.17 | sivang | jebba: ah, so mind some dirty work, prolem solved :) |
| 13:35.33 | sejo | jebba I got it working but bad ;uality |
| 13:35.42 | sejo | same with skype |
| 13:35.52 | sivang | jebba: do you think we could make it link against PyObjects so we could use python scripting to add the multimedia functionality ? |
| 13:36.07 | sejo | Arkenoi: thx hope it's on the client end then |
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| 13:36.34 | sejo | jebba: I just added sip account with nick@ekiga.net and works great |
| 13:36.38 | jebba | sivang: not sure, i've never even run conboy |
| 13:36.54 | Macer | anybody here ever use osx as an actual server? |
| 13:37.03 | tigert | sejo: its funny, I have several friends wiht ekiga accounts.. |
| 13:37.04 | jebba | sejo: I tried just calling 500@ekiga.net (echo test iirc). That work for you? |
| 13:37.04 | sivang | jebba: not to mention on the N900 right? :) |
| 13:37.14 | tigert | they never seem to have a working setup on desktop linux :) |
| 13:37.15 | jebba | ya ;) |
| 13:37.35 | tigert | "oops, sorry cannot talk, sound is broken" :D |
| 13:37.35 | jebba | i have it working ok on desktop |
| 13:37.35 | tigert | luckily it works fine on N900 |
| 13:37.56 | tigert | linux desktop sound stuff seems to have issues still |
| 13:38.05 | DocScrutinizer | I'm using sip://number@sipgate.de since a week now. Works great for inbound as well |
| 13:38.06 | sivang | tigert: you on a tablet ? |
| 13:38.08 | sejo | jebba doesn't connect |
| 13:38.11 | sivang | err, netbook ? |
| 13:38.21 | tigert | sivang: N900 and laptop now |
| 13:38.25 | sven-tek | YES, java runs on my N800. I can finally use my fav app pauker on my tablet PC. YES YES YES |
| 13:38.28 | tigert | but going for lunch now |
| 13:38.31 | jebba | DocScrutinizer hmm. why dont htey just make that info public? hmm |
| 13:38.41 | sivang | tigert: ah |
| 13:39.03 | jebba | sejo: ok, then maybe sip was working but ekiga is having probs with their server. Know a test url for digium offhand? I used to run a asterisk server for a couple years, but no more. |
| 13:39.04 | Stskeeps | sven-tek: what did you install? |
| 13:39.11 | sivang | tigert: The netbooks are very poor. Compaq Mini with nVidia ION are much better, if to say the least. |
| 13:39.32 | sven-tek | openjdk-6-cacao-jre |
| 13:39.33 | sejo | jebba dunno /100 |
| 13:39.40 | Arkenoi | jebba: "unable to estabilish connection". |
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| 13:39.43 | DocScrutinizer | jebba: policy |
| 13:39.57 | Stskeeps | sven-tek: oh cool |
| 13:40.06 | Stskeeps | sven-tek: under maemo or easy debian? |
| 13:40.09 | sivang | tigert: but the n900 is cool |
| 13:40.28 | Arkenoi | my registar is tario.net (sipnet.ru domain) |
| 13:41.08 | sejo | what stun does it use? |
| 13:41.26 | sven-tek | It runs under maemo. It has still some ugly fonts, but its usable. I use pauker a lot for learning, its greatest app ever for learning a language or anything you want to remember |
| 13:41.55 | Stskeeps | sven-tek: could you document your steps? |
| 13:41.55 | Stskeeps | others might find it interesting |
| 13:42.12 | sven-tek | nothing special done. just apt-getted the jre and then start pauker with "java -jar pauker-1.8.jar" |
| 13:42.27 | Stskeeps | apt-getted from where? :P |
| 13:43.45 | sven-tek | can i see the repository it was installed from with any debian tool? |
| 13:44.00 | Stskeeps | apt-cache show |
| 13:44.43 | sven-tek | Filename: pool/maemo4.0/misc/openjdk-6-cacao-jre_6b14-r0_armel.deb |
| 13:45.18 | sven-tek | i think its from the jalimo.evolvis.org/repository/maemo |
| 13:45.26 | Stskeeps | ah, jalimo |
| 13:46.13 | sven-tek | months ago i gave up running pauker... great |
| 13:46.57 | loft306 | Where yo look for the devices phone number? |
| 13:47.01 | loft306 | *to |
| 13:49.21 | jebba | here's a ton of test numbers: http://wiki.ekiga.org/index.php/Fun_Numbers |
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| 13:50.27 | loft306 | heh |
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| 13:55.23 | jebba | sejo: how do you have your ekiga account set up on the n900? I can connect to some places, but never get audio (I can with ekiga on my laptop, but not on the fone) |
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| 14:00.54 | sejo | jebba can't test now |
| 14:00.59 | sejo | skype works again :p |
| 14:01.05 | sejo | pretty good even |
| 14:05.01 | sven-tek | Is easy debian a good alternative to maemo on N800? |
| 14:05.17 | sven-tek | Is there an image to install it somewhere? |
| 14:05.39 | valdyn | sven-tek: i dont think its an alternative at all |
| 14:06.00 | sven-tek | okay, i dont want to hack but use it |
| 14:06.03 | valdyn | sven-tek: its just a way to use software from the debian armel repository |
| 14:06.10 | sven-tek | ah okay |
| 14:08.23 | sivang | valdyn: so it probably lacks the nokia prop stuff and the kernel patches to make it work with PM and related? |
| 14:08.29 | sivang | valdyn: re: easy debian |
| 14:08.43 | valdyn | sivang: its not a seperate system |
| 14:08.47 | naxxatoe | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:09.12 | loft306 | http://www.google.com/goog411/ |
| 14:09.42 | valdyn | sivang: debian chroot environment to install and run debian applications from |
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| 14:10.27 | sivang | valdyn: ah, nice so no changes to the setup. |
| 14:10.46 | valdyn | sivang: yea, no changes to maemo |
| 14:11.02 | sivang | valdyn: does it have to be a chroot ? |
| 14:11.11 | valdyn | sivang: yes |
| 14:11.13 | sivang | valdyn: for example, if I want to experment with stuff right on the fs |
| 14:11.13 | iDialekt | Anyone familiar with the 4g LTE stuff? |
| 14:11.28 | sivang | valdyn: I mean, adding the sources to the general sources.list |
| 14:11.32 | valdyn | sivang: hmm? do you understand what chroot means? |
| 14:11.38 | sivang | s/general/host-system/ |
| 14:11.45 | valdyn | sivang: easydebian has its own sources.list |
| 14:12.00 | sivang | valdyn: right, I don't want the apps to beconfied to the chroot fs |
| 14:12.07 | Arkenoi | lte sucks |
| 14:12.13 | sivang | valdyn: I want them to be able to access the /dev/ stuff |
| 14:12.27 | sivang | valdyn: sure I can setup loopback for that on the fs's |
| 14:12.33 | Arkenoi | because lte is to be owned by todays cellular networks ;-) |
| 14:12.47 | valdyn | sivang: mount --bind /dev /path/to/chroot/dev |
| 14:12.53 | Arkenoi | prefers wimax |
| 14:12.57 | aquatix | hm, can i launch the appmanager from terminal? maybe i can see why it crashes |
| 14:13.00 | sivang | valdyn: right, okay |
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| 14:13.22 | sivang | aquatix: find the desktop launcher file, see what binary it runs and run it |
| 14:13.23 | valdyn | sivang: but easydebian might already do that for you, i have no idea |
| 14:13.30 | sivang | valdyn: k, I should check |
| 14:13.32 | aquatix | sivang: good point |
| 14:13.36 | sivang | valdyn thanks dude |
| 14:13.42 | valdyn | http://wiki.maemo.org/Easy_Debian |
| 14:14.00 | iDialekt | ? |
| 14:14.03 | sivang | aquatix: you might be able to strace the app as well, to see if a system call is the problem |
| 14:14.11 | sivang | aquatix: but you have to have it installed first |
| 14:14.20 | aquatix | chicken-egg problem :) |
| 14:14.27 | aquatix | still have apt of couse |
| 14:14.27 | sivang | aquatix: :-D |
| 14:14.29 | aquatix | *course |
| 14:15.26 | jebba | got SIP going. Had to check "Open Routing" (?) or something (translation from spanish) |
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| 14:16.57 | Pega88 | hi, i'm working on maemo 5 - nokia N900 development for my school end project, is there maybe some website with a general overview/review of all the does and don't for developing for the N900? |
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| 14:19.17 | jebba900 | pega88 lots on the wiki |
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| 14:30.27 | fnordianslippers | test |
| 14:30.42 | jebba900 | ing |
| 14:30.49 | fnordianslippers | lish |
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| 14:34.31 | homeasvs_ | anyone here have a working .sbrsh for fremantle ? |
| 14:34.47 | homeasvs_ | racking my brain trying to figure out what's wrong with mine, and all the guides have typos and errors |
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| 14:38.41 | sejo | weird skype works perfect untill I receive an email, then it really starts to stutter |
| 14:39.13 | sejo | jebba: my sip is sejo@ekiga.net |
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| 14:56.58 | loft306 | heh |
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| 15:02.00 | jebba | man, google talk works really well. Just did a cross-hemisphere call and it sounds better than a cell phone call. |
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| 15:06.14 | sivang | jebba: yes it rocks |
| 15:06.19 | sivang | jebba: better then skpe |
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| 15:19.33 | timeless_mbp | um |
| 15:19.42 | timeless_mbp | my election thing from dneary was marked as spam |
| 15:20.33 | Stskeeps | it does look like spam |
| 15:20.33 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 15:20.39 | pekuja | D. Nedry |
| 15:21.15 | sejo | ooch didn't know galk was that good |
| 15:21.18 | sejo | sets up |
| 15:24.59 | sejo | I noticed that this night my battery wal almost empty |
| 15:25.06 | andre__ | hmm, does the on-screen virtual keyboard depend on any language settings or is it the same for all of them (except for Russian)? |
| 15:25.10 | sejo | putting it in offline mode does that help? |
| 15:26.44 | jebba | gah, i take an image, rotate and crop it in the fone, then select it for a background and it always "un"-rotates it, probably because it reads the EXIF info |
| 15:28.03 | aquatix | yay, wifi |
| 15:28.34 | timeless_mbp | andre__: eh? |
| 15:28.46 | timeless_mbp | the onscreen keyboard changes based on some setting in control panel |
| 15:28.56 | timeless_mbp | the french or spanish keymap should be slightly different from enus |
| 15:29.04 | homeasvs_ | anyone here have cpu transparency working ? |
| 15:29.11 | timeless_mbp | andre__: wait, which onscreen keyboard? :) |
| 15:29.18 | cehteh | germany prolly too ... and anyone seen a swiss-german keymap? |
| 15:29.22 | divinegod | ffdec_h264 is terribly slow. but i have a file that openmax (omx_h264dec) refuses to load.. anyone know what to do? |
| 15:29.29 | timeless_mbp | cehteh: none in sales |
| 15:29.53 | cehteh | worst of all .. so close to german but still so strange :) |
| 15:30.12 | cehteh | 4 offical languages all with accents :) |
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| 15:31.01 | andre__ | timeless, virtual one. not character |
| 15:31.09 | andre__ | the third screen, with all the symbols |
| 15:31.09 | timeless_mbp | andre__: ok |
| 15:31.16 | timeless_mbp | it's definitely different |
| 15:31.18 | timeless_mbp | all of them |
| 15:31.29 | timeless_mbp | the fn-ctrl one is very different for polish :) |
| 15:31.30 | aquatix | ok, thinkering with themes doesn't work |
| 15:31.32 | Stskeeps | heya MoonTiger |
| 15:31.36 | aquatix | i think i crashed mer :) |
| 15:31.38 | timeless_mbp | and the full screen finger keyboard tweaks language to landuage |
| 15:31.40 | andre__ | cehteh, what's wrong with the german one? |
| 15:31.41 | timeless_mbp | s/dua/gua/ |
| 15:31.50 | MoonTiger | hey Stskeeps |
| 15:31.52 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: i hate the repos |
| 15:31.57 | timeless_mbp | are you the repo master now? |
| 15:32.08 | cehteh | andre__: nothing .. i just wonder if swizerland gets an extra oen |
| 15:32.09 | Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: heck no |
| 15:32.10 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 15:32.16 | andre__ | oen? |
| 15:32.20 | cehteh | one |
| 15:32.33 | andre__ | for what? |
| 15:32.39 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: help me anyway? |
| 15:32.39 | odin_ | afnoon all |
| 15:32.46 | andre__ | I mean the keyboards are based on languages, not really countries... |
| 15:32.50 | timeless_mbp | the stupid gettext package is linked against a library it doesn't provide |
| 15:32.56 | timeless_mbp | andre__: um |
| 15:32.57 | cehteh | are french accents easily available on a german keyboard? |
| 15:33.07 | timeless_mbp | keyboards are based on regional variants of langauges |
| 15:33.11 | timeless_mbp | s/aug/uag/ |
| 15:33.12 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 15:33.19 | timeless_mbp | needs breakfast, lunch, and maybe dinner |
| 15:33.20 | Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: gettext package in fremantle is broken |
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| 15:33.34 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: is there a bug? |
| 15:33.37 | andre__ | cehteh, via onscreen special characters keyboard: yes. press bluekey+control |
| 15:33.38 | timeless_mbp | that's kinda incredibly lame |
| 15:34.02 | Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: you don't have doctools in your SB target do you? |
| 15:34.03 | andre__ | cehteh, not on the hardware keys themselves as they are limited and already used by äöü |
| 15:34.08 | cehteh | andre__: dunno if that pleases french-swiss people |
| 15:34.15 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: um, why do you ask? |
| 15:34.25 | andre__ | cehteh, french-swiss people should not use a german keyboard layout, but a french one. as easy as that. |
| 15:34.35 | Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: because normally SB hides this bug from you |
| 15:34.38 | timeless_mbp | cehteh: you can switch the hardware layout in software |
| 15:34.40 | cehteh | and dont forget about italian-swiss and raetero-romanic (ok they need äöü) |
| 15:34.45 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: well, err |
| 15:34.48 | timeless_mbp | what? |
| 15:34.58 | timeless_mbp | because my problem is that the .deb i got from the repository is broken |
| 15:34.59 | andre__ | cehteh, they should use the italian layout. what's the issue? |
| 15:35.06 | timeless_mbp | which means that my app doesn't work right |
| 15:35.17 | cehteh | andre__: you didnt seen a offical swiss keyboard layout dont you? |
| 15:35.23 | Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: there's a devkit for doctools (with gettext etc) for sb1. and that overrides the normal gettext package. normal gettext package is horridly broken lbt discovered the other day |
| 15:35.26 | timeless_mbp | cehteh: the keyboard has a way to compose keys |
| 15:35.27 | cehteh | and french layouts are very different |
| 15:35.41 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: i hit the broken gettext package every month or so |
| 15:35.47 | cehteh | well i am not in swizerland i dont care |
| 15:36.21 | andre__ | cehteh, there is no official swiss keyboard according to the latest documents I have here, but feel free to explain as Nokia changes everything at least twice per week :) |
| 15:36.36 | cehteh | haha i dont care |
| 15:36.52 | cehteh | compass and working GPS would be more important to me :P |
| 15:37.03 | timeless_mbp | cehteh: there's a third party package called ukeyboard |
| 15:37.12 | timeless_mbp | which lets you work w/ others to deal w/ this |
| 15:37.30 | luke-jr | cehteh: from what I've been hearing in here, GPS doesn't work |
| 15:37.32 | andre__ | cehteh, Uhm. Going to Settings > Text Input > Hardware keyboard layout there is "Suisse, Schweiz". Damn. Never seen that before. |
| 15:37.40 | andre__ | uargh |
| 15:38.10 | cehteh | hehe now you know what i mean? :) |
| 15:38.15 | andre__ | Bad idea. People should use Italian/German/French layout instead I think |
| 15:38.18 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 15:38.22 | Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: ask lbt about the back when he's back from bcn |
| 15:38.29 | Jaffa | tigert: The "Horizon" I was hacking was what's now "Attitude" |
| 15:38.30 | andre__ | cehteh, not yet as I have not tried it. But feel free to elaborate your issues :) |
| 15:38.35 | Jaffa | Not the old OS2005/6 Horizon |
| 15:38.55 | cehteh | andre__: you are german? |
| 15:39.09 | andre__ | cehteh, yes, according to my passport :) |
| 15:39.25 | Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: bug, that is |
| 15:39.48 | cehteh | well not on the n900 but on a normal keyboard look where some characters are on a swiss layout |
| 15:39.58 | cehteh | * $ § ... |
| 15:40.05 | cehteh | no à .. ok |
| 15:40.13 | cehteh | forgotten where the {[]} are .. |
| 15:40.21 | pekuja | nobody needs § |
| 15:40.29 | pekuja | it's useless |
| 15:40.38 | pekuja | I hate that they waste a whole key for that on European keyboards |
| 15:40.43 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: compass is a hardware mod. |
| 15:40.43 | *** join/#maemo bleader_ (n=bleader@teenapping.lalooz.com) |
| 15:40.47 | cehteh | if you ever want to make fun of someone switch his keyboard to swiss german |
| 15:40.50 | Stskeeps | or euro |
| 15:40.56 | pekuja | I'm sure in some European layouts there's something more useful there because they just need more keys in general |
| 15:41.10 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: I think a fairly simple one, if you could open the case, but... |
| 15:41.11 | Stskeeps | normal people just use 200e or 200eur, right? :P |
| 15:41.23 | pekuja | well, euro isn't too bad, because it's behind altgr anyhow |
| 15:41.25 | cehteh | SpeedEvil: and then solder it in? :) |
| 15:41.32 | andre__ | pekuja, as a lawyer i love § :-P |
| 15:41.32 | pekuja | doesn't really bother me that much |
| 15:41.36 | pekuja | it's just there if I really need it |
| 15:41.40 | pekuja | andre__: I'm sure you do :-P |
| 15:41.43 | pekuja | andre__: nobody else does ;-) |
| 15:41.47 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: basically |
| 15:41.54 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (n=unixSnob@ip-94-140-188-181.reverse.destiny.be) |
| 15:41.54 | cehteh | hehe |
| 15:41.54 | SpeedEvil | cehteh: in parallel with the accelerometer |
| 15:42.07 | SpeedEvil | http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=708 |
| 15:42.08 | cehteh | yeah and where is the software support for it? |
| 15:42.14 | pekuja | anyways, I would like to have a US layout for programming, but I'm not sure what the optimal solution would be to fit the scandinavian letters in there |
| 15:42.20 | SpeedEvil | It's on the I2C bus - write a driver |
| 15:42.36 | timeless_mbp | pekuja: optimal solution is to dunk scandinavia into the ocean |
| 15:42.41 | timeless_mbp | (and take .fi with it) |
| 15:42.42 | pekuja | well, my laptop has a couple of extra keys because it's a Japanese layout, so I could probably make it work |
| 15:42.51 | pekuja | timeless_mbp: :-( |
| 15:43.04 | pekuja | timeless_mbp: not that I have much fondness for my umlauts |
| 15:43.07 | timeless_mbp | pekuja: hey, don't frown, i'd lose my apt in the process |
| 15:43.39 | Gadgetoid | ported android yet? |
| 15:45.04 | zash | Yeah, how's the android-runtime-porting going? |
| 15:45.17 | zash | Canonical doing that right? |
| 15:45.44 | SpeedEvil | Oops. I meant http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9441 - but anyway. |
| 15:46.17 | Stskeeps | zash: someone was doing it but he threw a religious fit over not having google maps and such "android is not as open as you think" and never published the code.. |
| 15:46.20 | Gadgetoid | haha I'm just making dirty jokes... android is a sin |
| 15:47.18 | Stskeeps | zash: http://mjfrey.blogspot.com/ -send him an e-mail and poke him to publish |
| 15:47.49 | Gadgetoid | oo extras-testing failed for a change |
| 15:48.22 | *** join/#maemo alexj_ (n=alexj@115.184.70.23) |
| 15:48.53 | sejo | likes bounce |
| 15:49.08 | suihkulokki | bounce needs a level editor =) |
| 15:49.09 | zash | Stskeeps: lol |
| 15:49.16 | pekuja | zash: android runtime? would that mean running Android apps on Maemo with just a VM or something? |
| 15:49.19 | SpeedEvil | bounce++ |
| 15:49.22 | pekuja | zash: that'd be pretty sweet |
| 15:49.26 | Stskeeps | pekuja: see the page i referred to. |
| 15:49.29 | sejo | suihkulokki: mhat's the poy ? |
| 15:49.31 | sejo | pay |
| 15:49.34 | zash | pekuja: it's java-ish |
| 15:49.40 | zash | pekuja: runtime as in the java vm |
| 15:49.50 | zash | pekuja: except it's not java, but dalvik |
| 15:50.17 | *** join/#maemo oops6_4 (n=abhishek@115.184.75.249) |
| 15:50.38 | pekuja | zash: yeah, I know. if it is portable to Maemo, that's pretty exciting I think |
| 15:50.40 | pekuja | Stskeeps: thanks |
| 15:51.07 | SpeedEvil | I would even pay as much as 3 dollars for more levels on bounce. |
| 15:52.16 | Stskeeps | i wonder if they'll be on ovi store |
| 15:53.07 | kynky | 3 levels on bounce? thought the first icon was just for video |
| 15:53.41 | jebba | why doesn't this work? It's preventing me from removing fotos: `chmod u+w 2006-05-26/` (in MyDocs/.images subdir) |
| 15:53.50 | Stskeeps | jebba: it's FAT |
| 15:53.54 | SpeedEvil | kynky: well - yes |
| 15:54.02 | jebba | Stskeeps: but other dirs in there are +w |
| 15:54.08 | Stskeeps | jebba: that's kinda weird |
| 15:54.15 | Stskeeps | jebba: submit a bug? |
| 15:54.34 | jebba | andre__: ? ^^ |
| 15:54.35 | SpeedEvil | It's FAT as it has to be to allow it to work in mass storage mode with most PCs |
| 15:54.45 | kynky | hope not to long for koffice on n900 |
| 15:54.49 | jebba | SpeedEvil: but then why are other dirs +w ok? |
| 15:55.06 | SpeedEvil | VFAT does not support most attributes |
| 15:55.09 | jebba | i have a subdir with one dir +w and the others are -w |
| 15:55.26 | jebba | ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver $ ls -l |
| 15:55.27 | jebba | drwxrwxrwx 2 user root 65536 Dec 6 12:38 2005 |
| 15:55.27 | jebba | dr-xr-xr-x 2 user root 65536 Mar 23 2007 2006-05-26 |
| 15:55.27 | jebba | dr-xr-xr-x 2 user root 65536 Mar 23 2007 2006-07-26 |
| 15:55.28 | andre__ | jebba, hmm? |
| 15:55.46 | andre__ | context? |
| 15:55.46 | timeless_mbp | jebba: df -h ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver |
| 15:55.50 | jebba | ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver $ chmod +w 2006-07-26 |
| 15:55.51 | jebba | ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver $ ls -l | grep 07-26 |
| 15:55.52 | jebba | dr-xr-xr-x 2 user root 65536 Mar 23 2007 2006-07-26 |
| 15:56.03 | jebba | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:56.04 | jebba | Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on |
| 15:56.04 | jebba | /dev/mmcblk0p1 27.0G 7.1G 19.9G 26% /home/user/MyDocs |
| 15:56.31 | *** join/#maemo lpotter_ (n=quiggly@CPE-58-173-176-153.wucz1.woo.bigpond.net.au) |
| 15:56.54 | timeless_mbp | mount |grep MyDocs |
| 15:57.22 | jebba | andre__: I scp'd over a few directories. On my system the dirs are u-w so i didn't accidentally blow them out. I scp -pr them, so now when they are on the system, they don't have write perms. But I should be able to change that. |
| 15:57.35 | timeless_mbp | chuckles |
| 15:57.38 | jebba | $ mount |grep MyDocs |
| 15:57.38 | jebba | /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat (rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0133,rodir) |
| 15:57.50 | Stskeeps | rodir? |
| 15:58.06 | zash | read-only-dir? |
| 15:58.11 | jebba | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:58.11 | jebba | drwxrwxrwx 5 user root 65536 Dec 6 12:50 . |
| 15:58.12 | andre__ | aha. okay. |
| 15:58.23 | timeless_mbp | chmod 0777 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver |
| 15:58.42 | sejo | I have an icon in the status bar of the n900 that looks like a file with a red stripe through |
| 15:58.46 | sejo | what does that mean? |
| 15:58.48 | jebba | heh. chmod 0777 works, but +w doesnt ... |
| 15:58.54 | jebba | on the subdirs too. |
| 15:58.57 | timeless_mbp | sejo: no working sim card |
| 15:58.59 | *** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 15:59.10 | timeless_mbp | jebba: sounds like a busybox bug |
| 15:59.12 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 15:59.20 | jebba | anyway, in the foto manager it made it complain that it couldn't remove the images via tap tap tap |
| 15:59.21 | timeless_mbp | chmod 0555 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver |
| 15:59.25 | timeless_mbp | chmod +w ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver |
| 15:59.29 | timeless_mbp | does that fail? |
| 16:00.00 | jebba | timeless_mbp: correct. +w doesnt do anything |
| 16:00.13 | timeless_mbp | jebba: doesn't do anything or complains and doesn't do anything? |
| 16:00.14 | sejo | timeless_mbp: thanks |
| 16:00.14 | jebba | ah, but a+w does. |
| 16:00.23 | jebba | timeless_mbp: no complaints, just doesnt do anything |
| 16:00.28 | timeless_mbp | ok |
| 16:00.36 | timeless_mbp | so roughly, the ulimit means it's a partial mode change |
| 16:00.47 | timeless_mbp | and a partial mode change is meaningless on a FAT file system |
| 16:00.57 | timeless_mbp | chmod 0555 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver |
| 16:01.01 | timeless_mbp | chmod 0755 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver |
| 16:01.05 | timeless_mbp | what happens there? |
| 16:01.08 | jebba | but things like this fail: chmod -R o-w 2006-0* (well, has no effect) |
| 16:01.20 | timeless_mbp | please be careful |
| 16:01.35 | timeless_mbp | 'no effect' and 'fail' are very different |
| 16:02.10 | jebba | timeless_mbp: http://pastebin.ca/1704333 |
| 16:02.32 | timeless_mbp | right |
| 16:02.47 | timeless_mbp | so, roughly, a partial mode change is treated as an invalid thing |
| 16:02.54 | timeless_mbp | chmod 0777 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver |
| 16:02.58 | timeless_mbp | chmod 0755 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver |
| 16:03.01 | timeless_mbp | what happens there? |
| 16:03.13 | timeless_mbp | remember, fat does have a concept of 'readonly' |
| 16:03.23 | timeless_mbp | it just doesn't have a concept of groups, it's either readonly, or it isn't |
| 16:03.49 | jebba | timeless_mbp: updated pastebin http://pastebin.ca/1704336 |
| 16:04.06 | timeless_mbp | right |
| 16:04.12 | timeless_mbp | i'm not sure there's actually a bug here |
| 16:04.20 | jebba | ah, ok, i get it now. |
| 16:04.24 | jebba | hmm FAT |
| 16:04.28 | timeless_mbp | umask is what causes +w and friends to not be treated as 0yyy |
| 16:04.50 | odin_ | no Very FAT lols |
| 16:04.52 | timeless_mbp | i believe that the error message from the image viewer app is also sane |
| 16:05.21 | timeless_mbp | but, if you disagree, list it again, and i'll consider it |
| 16:05.21 | jebba | timeless_mbp: ya, if you try to delete an image, should it chmod it? instead of just error? |
| 16:05.31 | timeless_mbp | oh |
| 16:05.33 | timeless_mbp | well |
| 16:05.37 | timeless_mbp | no :) |
| 16:05.50 | timeless_mbp | but can file manager change the readonly bit for you? |
| 16:05.53 | jebba | heh. perhaps "this image is read-only, are you sure you want to delete?" or somesuch? |
| 16:06.00 | timeless_mbp | imagine you have 20 pictures in a set of 1000 pictures |
| 16:06.09 | timeless_mbp | because you don't want to accidentally delete them |
| 16:06.24 | timeless_mbp | you don't really want an image viewer to let you delete them <period> |
| 16:06.42 | timeless_mbp | anyway, can you remove the readonly bit from file manager? |
| 16:07.40 | jebba | timeless_mbp: i dont see a way in filemanager to change perms |
| 16:08.23 | timeless_mbp | looks like they dropped that feature :( |
| 16:08.29 | timeless_mbp | feel free to complain about file manager |
| 16:08.34 | timeless_mbp | the rest of it is all reasonable |
| 16:08.53 | sejo | how can I easily create a screenshot |
| 16:09.13 | jebba | for some reason i could delete all the default nokia images that came with the fone in the image viewer, except this image: digital_nature4_03.jpg not sure why that was different (all blown away now so can't full investigate, but it was: -rw-r--r-- ) timeless_mbp |
| 16:09.21 | timeless_mbp | sejo: ctrl-shift-p |
| 16:09.36 | timeless_mbp | jebba: was it your wallpaper? |
| 16:10.09 | jebba | dont' believe so. I was using default wallpaper at the time (not sure what that image looks like now) |
| 16:10.25 | timeless_mbp | it was probably that one :) |
| 16:10.37 | sejo | thx |
| 16:10.47 | SpeedEvil | Is htere any pic taking application that does not have the geolocation rounding bug? |
| 16:10.56 | timeless_mbp | rounding bug? |
| 16:11.08 | SpeedEvil | It rounds locations to whole seconds of lat/lon |
| 16:11.17 | SpeedEvil | meaning a 30m*15m or so grid (in UK) |
| 16:11.31 | Stskeeps | wow. |
| 16:11.31 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 16:11.46 | jebba | timeless_mbp: one other thing, re: wall papers. I had an image which I wanted to use as wallpaper. Needed to rotate it -90° and crop, which i did in the image viewer (very nice, btw). But then when i went to use it as a wallpaper, it got rotated *back* to it's original rotation, maybe due to EXIF info or something. I just edited it in gimp on laptop and deleted EXIF and it worked. |
| 16:12.07 | timeless_mbp | jebba: file a bug |
| 16:12.37 | sp3000 | hm, I was uder the impression the desktop (and avatars) don't support exif orientation, rather? |
| 16:13.01 | sp3000 | and that the immage edit uses it rather than transforming the data |
| 16:13.03 | timeless_mbp | jebba: try loading the picture (pre gimp) in the browser |
| 16:13.04 | sp3000 | but icbw |
| 16:13.16 | timeless_mbp | the browser doesn't support exif |
| 16:13.18 | timeless_mbp | (not a bug) |
| 16:13.29 | timeless_mbp | so if image viewer is cheating (quite likely) |
| 16:13.46 | timeless_mbp | then the bug is in desktop for not supporting a feature exposed by the image viewer "platform" |
| 16:13.57 | sp3000 | camera too, so no setting avatars from portrait portraits :) |
| 16:14.08 | sp3000 | ime |
| 16:14.37 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: so, does that make it a missing feature in gtkpixbuf? :) |
| 16:14.50 | lardman | hm Qt channel very quiet |
| 16:14.53 | sp3000 | heh, dunno |
| 16:15.03 | lardman | is there a Qt equivalent to osso_initialize()? |
| 16:15.09 | sp3000 | for moz upstream it's 298619 and rather inactive |
| 16:15.23 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: it's likely it'd break the web :) |
| 16:15.57 | sp3000 | sometimes bugs me when looking at a full size image at flickr, as the scaled versions are manged t orientation but the original is original and may be exif'd to orientation |
| 16:16.45 | sp3000 | I dunno, I suspect it would fix more than break |
| 16:17.14 | sp3000 | hmm, I'm missing pesto |
| 16:17.17 | timeless_mbp | depends how often there's stray exif data uses in sites which didn't know about it |
| 16:17.26 | timeless_mbp | hrm, pizza hut here has pesto |
| 16:17.32 | *** join/#maemo apol (n=apol@81.184.56.126.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 16:17.43 | sp3000 | and olives |
| 16:17.53 | sp3000 | so does my fridge ;) |
| 16:17.56 | timeless_mbp | has olives |
| 16:18.10 | timeless_mbp | goes to read 'maybe spam' |
| 16:18.23 | jebba | timeless_mbp: ok, browser shows it "upright", image viewer shows it "sideways" (how I want it), background shows it "upright" |
| 16:18.44 | timeless_mbp | yeah, file a bug against desktop |
| 16:18.55 | timeless_mbp | don't bother filing one against browser. i will kill it. i promise |
| 16:19.04 | lardman | mmm, olives |
| 16:19.33 | *** join/#maemo eie (n=f@unaffiliated/iei) |
| 16:19.47 | jebba | timeless_mbp: ok thx. sry for noise (esp. re: FAT) |
| 16:20.04 | timeless_mbp | shrugs |
| 16:20.04 | loft306 | haha |
| 16:20.08 | timeless_mbp | it's fun |
| 16:20.13 | *** join/#maemo Moku (n=John@f048208238.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:20.57 | timeless_mbp | ok, so where was i? |
| 16:21.05 | timeless_mbp | todo: write a po editor |
| 16:21.09 | timeless_mbp | . fix engb |
| 16:21.15 | timeless_mbp | . fix maps |
| 16:21.22 | timeless_mbp | . help a local |
| 16:21.25 | timeless_mbp | . eat breakfast |
| 16:21.38 | SpeedEvil | A poo editor? |
| 16:21.54 | sp3000 | so how would you solve connections priorization to avoid automatically preferring annoying hotels and whatnots that require some silly possibly paid login instead of working immediately? |
| 16:21.55 | lardman | shovel? |
| 16:21.56 | timeless_mbp | no |
| 16:21.59 | SpeedEvil | http://www.poopreport.com/Consumer/Content/Turd_twister/twister.html ? |
| 16:22.08 | SpeedEvil | ponders a digitally controlled one. |
| 16:22.11 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: without using drag and drop? |
| 16:22.19 | lardman | like those r/c snakes |
| 16:22.20 | jebba | hmm, HOWTO take screenshot? Best if I can do it from command line via SSH. Cuz if i take a screenshot of the desktop as it is now, it will explain bug much better than words :) |
| 16:22.20 | timeless_mbp | and without being arrested for aiding digital tresspassing? |
| 16:22.27 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: personally |
| 16:22.28 | sp3000 | I'm thinking the scheme should be moving connections between three tiers, "preferred", "autoconnect", "manual" |
| 16:22.33 | timeless_mbp | i'd use the mozilla approach |
| 16:22.38 | timeless_mbp | you connect to a network |
| 16:22.40 | jebba | ah, via VNC := |
| 16:22.40 | timeless_mbp | but that doesn't save it |
| 16:22.52 | timeless_mbp | to save the network, you tap the network indicator and select save |
| 16:23.02 | timeless_mbp | the save thing lets you add a comment, and specify a preference |
| 16:23.17 | *** join/#maemo hardaker2 (n=hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 16:23.19 | timeless_mbp | for networks you don't save, they're left in a provisional bin |
| 16:23.20 | sp3000 | those tiers effectively exist already; all wifis go to preferred, cellular goes to autoconnect or manual depending on your answer to the autoconnect prompt (or later twweaking in cpl) |
| 16:23.43 | timeless_mbp | anyway |
| 16:23.58 | timeless_mbp | from memory the networking ui is maemo4 or maemo3, not maemo5 |
| 16:24.03 | timeless_mbp | so we're talking about rewriting it :) |
| 16:24.17 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: do you have objections to my general approach? |
| 16:24.17 | SpeedEvil | autoconnect to unsecured wifi may not be legal though. |
| 16:24.36 | sp3000 | orthogonal |
| 16:24.38 | timeless_mbp | by the time you're using the ui i describe, it's trivial to have the dialog specify as a dropdown option preferred, manual |
| 16:24.50 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: not generally relevant |
| 16:24.56 | timeless_mbp | autoconnect is a distinct feature |
| 16:25.02 | SpeedEvil | oops - misread |
| 16:25.15 | timeless_mbp | the feature i was talking about but which we haven't covered is connecting to a network and pinging a well known host |
| 16:25.27 | timeless_mbp | some stupid state would probably claim that's digital tresspass |
| 16:25.30 | sp3000 | I'm basically suggesting the ability to demote wifis from preferred to autoconnect but not preferred , or manual |
| 16:25.47 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: i'm not opposed |
| 16:25.48 | SpeedEvil | Is there a way of connecting to two networks? I want to bridge my wifi and cell-radio to act as a modem |
| 16:25.54 | timeless_mbp | but, to do that, we'd need to redo the ui |
| 16:26.04 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: technically yes |
| 16:26.07 | timeless_mbp | from the ui, no |
| 16:26.10 | SpeedEvil | timeless: k |
| 16:26.12 | SpeedEvil | Thought not |
| 16:26.27 | sp3000 | in the general case, I think doing the simple thing and dumping wifis to preferred without questions may be the best alternative |
| 16:26.31 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: while nokia is trying to sell directly |
| 16:26.44 | timeless_mbp | we're also not trying to piss off cellular carriers more than necessary :) |
| 16:26.47 | sp3000 | simple case simple and tweak in cpl |
| 16:26.51 | SpeedEvil | timeless_mbp: sorry - sell directly? ah |
| 16:26.52 | timeless_mbp | besides, designing a ui for that is painful |
| 16:27.02 | timeless_mbp | and no such ui would be 'simple' |
| 16:27.03 | SpeedEvil | timeless_mbp: somewhat. |
| 16:27.13 | timeless_mbp | and simple is a ui design goal |
| 16:27.30 | sp3000 | otoh the case where you're discovering sucky wifis gets a bit circumlocutious, but it always was |
| 16:27.36 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: sorry, can you explain the categories again? |
| 16:27.49 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: i should plug devicescape |
| 16:27.53 | SpeedEvil | timeless_mbp: I'm unsure what'd be wrong with the wireless net simply taking all packets routed for its netmask. |
| 16:27.55 | timeless_mbp | (disclaimer, my cousin works for them) |
| 16:27.59 | sp3000 | preferred is a set to which you get connected if available even if you already have a lower tier connection |
| 16:28.02 | SpeedEvil | But yes, it would add hard-to-debug corner cases |
| 16:28.19 | tigert | hmm |
| 16:28.50 | sp3000 | autoconnect is one you get autoconnected to if nothing else is available (cellular if you say "yes" to autoconnect) |
| 16:28.54 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: given that we can't get the basic corner cases right |
| 16:28.57 | sp3000 | manual never autoconnects |
| 16:28.57 | timeless_mbp | i'd rather not go there :) |
| 16:29.01 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 16:29.24 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: so |
| 16:29.32 | timeless_mbp | i think my approach is right |
| 16:29.33 | sp3000 | I don't think the autoconnect set would act preferred over the manual set as in disconnecting from a manually connected thing to hop over there; only preferred would do that |
| 16:29.43 | timeless_mbp | namely the status area should let you promote/demote/note the network |
| 16:29.48 | timeless_mbp | preferably geotag it |
| 16:30.15 | timeless_mbp | wonders if devicescape has shipped for the n900 yet |
| 16:31.34 | *** join/#maemo alexj__ (n=alexj@115.184.63.59) |
| 16:33.10 | sp3000 | yeah, access to demote without going through cpl would fix the discovering sucky wifis case adequately I think, it could probably be shoehorned into that dialog |
| 16:33.28 | w00t | timeless_mbp: got a minute to try reproduce something a bit weird? |
| 16:33.38 | timeless_mbp | maybe |
| 16:33.52 | w00t | tap the top left repeatedly (going between switcher and launcher) |
| 16:33.52 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: that dialog needs to be taken out back and shot |
| 16:34.08 | w00t | while doing this, I often end up at a blurred background (similar to launcher/switcher) with no items |
| 16:34.42 | w00t | I can reproduce this on two devices, but I'm not sure whether it's universal as Stskeeps can't |
| 16:34.51 | loft306 | scrambled eggs |
| 16:35.09 | sp3000 | receiving bacon frame |
| 16:35.10 | timeless_mbp | w00t: ask the channel |
| 16:35.16 | timeless_mbp | goes back to engb |
| 16:35.27 | w00t | ok, anyone else want to have a play with that one? :-) |
| 16:35.49 | SpeedEvil | timeless: seems to make sense |
| 16:36.56 | loft306 | dont got it w00t |
| 16:37.17 | w00t | loft306: are you pressing fairly rapidly? (once per 0.5 seconds) |
| 16:37.19 | w00t | roughly |
| 16:37.38 | loft306 | yep |
| 16:37.47 | w00t | hmm |
| 16:37.50 | w00t | I wonder why I'm special :-) |
| 16:38.00 | loft306 | see buth things on screen at once but no scramble |
| 16:38.04 | jebba | timeless_mbp: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6632 |
| 16:38.05 | povbot` | Bug 6632: Background image does not show correct rotation |
| 16:38.26 | w00t | not a scramble, loft306, and it isn't always instantly triggerable, but I can always get it within about 10-20 seconds |
| 16:38.52 | timeless_mbp | jebba: well filed, good steps to reproduce |
| 16:39.08 | loft306 | no just see both launcher and switcher on screen at the same time |
| 16:39.12 | ShadowJK | am I the only one who thinks the current connectivity ui is good as is? :P |
| 16:39.16 | timeless_mbp | jebba++ |
| 16:39.18 | sp3000 | fwiw I'm not sure if wifis in the middle tier makes sense or not |
| 16:39.19 | loft306 | till i stop and one fades out |
| 16:39.22 | w00t | ShadowJK: I don't mind it |
| 16:39.23 | SpeedEvil | w00t: I just tried it or a minute or so, and it diddn't do it at all |
| 16:39.33 | w00t | wtf. |
| 16:39.40 | w00t | this is insane :P |
| 16:39.41 | SpeedEvil | w00t: That is - it simply switched between - though occasionally stalling for a moment. |
| 16:39.42 | jebba | timeless_mbp: thx |
| 16:39.45 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: what's really needed is "ignore this network, it sucks" |
| 16:39.48 | loft306 | is DangerMaus |
| 16:39.49 | SpeedEvil | w00t: 3 apps. |
| 16:40.24 | w00t | I only have web bookmarks and an IM window open |
| 16:40.27 | sp3000 | that's kind of the bottom tier, but otoh I didn't think of any ...warning indicator for that |
| 16:40.36 | w00t | let me see if that matters |
| 16:40.38 | loft306 | same as SpeedEvil for results |
| 16:40.51 | SpeedEvil | w00t: calculator, a webpage, and file manager |
| 16:40.56 | sp3000 | and some of the bottom tier items may be thnigs you do want but just often not |
| 16:41.01 | loft306 | as we all break something |
| 16:41.06 | loft306 | :P |
| 16:41.25 | w00t | triggered with web bookmarks only open.. let's change that to calculator and see what happens |
| 16:41.51 | w00t | triggered with calculator too. I'm at a loss.. |
| 16:42.05 | w00t | thinks |
| 16:42.48 | SpeedEvil | Has anyone had issues with the statusbar loadmeter? |
| 16:42.52 | w00t | fwiw |
| 16:42.54 | w00t | http://share.ovi.com/media/w00teh.PublicRandomStu/w00teh.10003 |
| 16:42.56 | *** join/#maemo zenvoid__ (n=rgs@244.pool85-59-248.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 16:42.56 | SpeedEvil | For me it coincided with wifi not working |
| 16:42.57 | w00t | that's what it looks like |
| 16:44.41 | w00t | tries moving desktops to see if that matters somehow |
| 16:44.56 | loft306 | hmm with calc i get it to drop out of launcher/switcher to the background here and there but not blurry |
| 16:45.19 | w00t | loft306: that occurs when it was blurry like that and you press anywhere |
| 16:45.23 | loft306 | alrite enough of this |
| 16:45.30 | w00t | so chances are it registered a press on the background and went to desktop |
| 16:45.44 | loft306 | thats what i was thinking |
| 16:45.47 | w00t | reproduced on another desktop, so that's not it |
| 16:46.05 | w00t | theme differs on the two devices, so that's not it |
| 16:46.12 | hardaker2 | wonders why /usr/share can't be entirely moved to /opt |
| 16:46.21 | loft306 | just your devices w00t your special :P |
| 16:46.35 | w00t | :( |
| 16:48.09 | w00t | it always occurs when going to the launcher screen, never the switcher, which makes sense given there is no button to open the launcher screen |
| 16:48.14 | jebba | would be nice to move / to /opt ;) |
| 16:49.05 | hardaker2 | jebba: hah. yeah. though I understand the reason why they did it that way, they still should have made / larger. |
| 16:49.17 | hardaker2 | considers porting gparted and wonders how that would work ;-) |
| 16:49.32 | hardaker2 | my / is now full :-( |
| 16:49.41 | hardaker2 | it's a lot of painful maintance to fix it. |
| 16:50.30 | jebba | hardaker2: don't reboot until you fix it or you may have to flash (I went thru that...) |
| 16:50.33 | *** join/#maemo MoaBird (n=MoaBird@adsl-76-211-235-184.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:50.44 | jebba | get to 99% at least |
| 16:51.08 | hardaker2 | Ah, good to know. thanks. |
| 16:51.10 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (n=millenom@94.198.78.26) |
| 16:51.24 | hardaker2 | I've dropped it down to about 99 already but I'm glad to have heard that. |
| 16:51.57 | LeoD | hm, how big is /? |
| 16:52.50 | hardaker2 | rootfs 233104 226900 1920 99% / |
| 16:52.52 | sp3000 | GB/4 + compression |
| 16:52.59 | LeoD | hmhm |
| 16:53.04 | *** join/#maemo MoaBird (n=MoaBird@adsl-76-211-235-184.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:53.18 | *** join/#maemo baze (n=baze@f050238001.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:53.23 | hardaker2 | I think someone said it was safe to move /var/cache to /opt but I haven't. |
| 16:54.07 | odin_ | hardaker2, run "du -s /var/lib/dpkg" |
| 16:54.22 | hardaker2 | 28876 |
| 16:54.34 | odin_ | 28Mb of 233Mb, quite a bit.... |
| 16:54.34 | hardaker2 | info being the big one. |
| 16:54.42 | hardaker2 | yep. |
| 16:55.18 | odin_ | I moved mine to /home/opt/maemo/var/lib/dpkg (I wrote a script on what I did) |
| 16:55.57 | timeless_mbp | andre__: i can't find the sources for sbox2 |
| 16:55.58 | hardaker2 | you've rebooted since then I assume? |
| 16:56.20 | hardaker2 | (though there is no reason it should be needed before /home is mounted) |
| 16:56.33 | *** join/#maemo udovdh (n=udovdh@pindarots.xs4all.nl) |
| 16:56.35 | odin_ | yes and installed some apps |
| 16:56.38 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: some crappy work network? :) |
| 16:57.12 | timeless_mbp | hardaker2: i've already explained why we can't move things to /opt |
| 16:57.16 | timeless_mbp | go read the channel logs |
| 16:57.20 | sejo | hmm /101 |
| 16:57.32 | hardaker2 | timeless_mbp: I understand the technical reasons. |
| 16:57.40 | hardaker2 | but the current solution isn't workable. |
| 16:57.40 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (n=unixSnob@ip-94-140-188-181.reverse.destiny.be) |
| 16:57.47 | timeless_mbp | you mean not wanting to screw customers? |
| 16:57.52 | timeless_mbp | you call that a technical reason? |
| 16:58.41 | sp3000 | yeah I'm not sure if that sort of thing shouldn't just be in the bottom tier anyhow |
| 16:58.52 | sejo | does the maemo speak caldav? |
| 16:58.53 | hardaker2 | timeless_mbp: I should say I understand *why* things are done the way they are; but / is too small for it to be a usable system for any reasonable amount of pkg installs. |
| 16:59.22 | timeless_mbp | hardaker2: not if everyone installs into /opt |
| 16:59.39 | timeless_mbp | (not technically a great answer for the same reasons, but hey) |
| 16:59.39 | hardaker2 | timeless_mbp: Yep. there are a *ton* of things that should be in /opt that aren't. I agree. |
| 16:59.40 | *** join/#maemo oops6_4 (n=abhishek@115.184.98.138) |
| 16:59.49 | timeless_mbp | are there? |
| 16:59.51 | hardaker2 | but none-the-less: packaging is harder. |
| 16:59.55 | timeless_mbp | they shouldn't get promoted |
| 16:59.59 | *** part/#maemo oops6_4 (n=abhishek@115.184.98.138) |
| 17:00.00 | timeless_mbp | shrugs |
| 17:00.10 | timeless_mbp | what we should have done was just setup a second package root in /opt |
| 17:00.13 | timeless_mbp | and use that |
| 17:00.22 | hardaker2 | 124160 /usr/share |
| 17:00.27 | timeless_mbp | it requires a bit more magic at the apt level |
| 17:00.35 | timeless_mbp | but it'd be better |
| 17:00.42 | odin_ | hardaker2, http://www.pastebin.org/61421 (try that, just comment out the last line which does the removal if you are not sure, it backs it up to a tar.gz file anyhow) |
| 17:01.05 | hardaker2 | odin_: thanks; I'll look at it. |
| 17:01.27 | hardaker2 | there are two ways to separate out things that have to be in / vs those that don't. |
| 17:01.31 | timeless_mbp | odin_: you're assuming he used command line to install junk? |
| 17:01.42 | timeless_mbp | shrugs |
| 17:01.43 | ShadowJK | I guess python somehow slipped through and was in extras before it was optified? :( |
| 17:01.48 | timeless_mbp | hardaker2: so, nokia screwed up |
| 17:01.51 | hardaker2 | 1) assume everyone can move stuff to /opt when packaging (including all the people that have been doing it other ways for everything they've packaged in the past) |
| 17:01.56 | *** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@a91-153-253-251.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:01.56 | timeless_mbp | fixing it is incredibly hard |
| 17:02.02 | odin_ | timeless_mbp, assuming in what way? |
| 17:02.05 | w00t | ShadowJK: afaik python doesn't work optified atm |
| 17:02.06 | timeless_mbp | and way too late for a product that solidified months ago |
| 17:02.14 | ShadowJK | w00t, i think it does now? |
| 17:02.18 | w00t | mm |
| 17:02.18 | odin_ | timeless_mbp, I used HAM to install junk and still had not space |
| 17:02.18 | timeless_mbp | odin_: that cache dir is only used by apt, not ham |
| 17:02.20 | hardaker2 | 2) mark *only* the things that need to be in / as in / and move common directories to /opt and package the criticial ones separately (which could be done by experts at nokia) |
| 17:02.20 | w00t | you might be right |
| 17:02.22 | w00t | I don't know |
| 17:02.27 | timeless_mbp | odin_: that's because you didn't reboot |
| 17:02.32 | timeless_mbp | and someone held open file handles |
| 17:02.40 | timeless_mbp | (roughly) |
| 17:02.53 | timeless_mbp | "experts at nokia" |
| 17:02.54 | timeless_mbp | funny |
| 17:03.02 | hardaker2 | heh. |
| 17:03.05 | timeless_mbp | the experts are what gave you what you have, and |
| 17:03.11 | timeless_mbp | you expect something better later? |
| 17:03.15 | odin_ | timeless_mbp, no before rebootting I took a look at that issue, and couild not see any open file handlers to anonymous files |
| 17:03.17 | timeless_mbp | what are you smoking, and can i have some? |
| 17:03.40 | hardaker2 | I'm stating what the world *should* be like. Which means that in the world I'm describing, yes there *should* be experts at nokia. |
| 17:03.41 | w00t | heh |
| 17:03.48 | hardaker2 | I'm not, however, describing what currently exists -;) |
| 17:03.49 | ShadowJK | I guess that the "experts" never imagine to install so many apps that the / would fill up without optification :) |
| 17:03.53 | w00t | everyone is humajn |
| 17:03.56 | odin_ | timeless_mbp, HAM does appear to update the apt repo dirs, I have never installed anything with "apt-get" (yet) but I still had only 7Mb free on rootfs |
| 17:03.57 | w00t | -j |
| 17:04.14 | timeless_mbp | odin_: ham is not supposed to use the apt cache dir |
| 17:04.18 | sp3000 | is a unicorn |
| 17:04.19 | ShadowJK | is pretty content after having installed ssh, rsync, mplayer, gpodder, xchat, and most of that probably went to / |
| 17:04.28 | timeless_mbp | oh |
| 17:04.35 | timeless_mbp | you're moving /var/lib/dpkg |
| 17:04.37 | timeless_mbp | sorry |
| 17:04.42 | timeless_mbp | i assumed you moved the other one |
| 17:04.53 | timeless_mbp | yeah, that one should move |
| 17:04.59 | timeless_mbp | well |
| 17:05.02 | timeless_mbp | actually |
| 17:05.11 | timeless_mbp | it can't move for roughly the same reason |
| 17:05.17 | timeless_mbp | because it'd cause a system flash to be broken |
| 17:05.27 | timeless_mbp | so, no :) |
| 17:05.28 | odin_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:05.38 | odin_ | shall I open a bug report to move it in next release ? |
| 17:05.40 | timeless_mbp | basically, that breaks system updates |
| 17:05.42 | timeless_mbp | no |
| 17:05.50 | timeless_mbp | totally pointless, it won't work |
| 17:06.00 | timeless_mbp | see my original explanation for why system stuff can't be in /ppt |
| 17:06.05 | ShadowJK | wouldn't system flash restore the original? |
| 17:06.10 | timeless_mbp | it can't |
| 17:06.17 | timeless_mbp | system flash only touches ubifs |
| 17:06.30 | timeless_mbp | if it fries /home, then the customer is screwed |
| 17:06.39 | timeless_mbp | because we ate 2gb of his *user* data |
| 17:06.42 | odin_ | but when ubifs boots up the first time, it can run and offer to re-link/re-set suiff in /home |
| 17:06.44 | timeless_mbp | things like his mailbox |
| 17:07.06 | timeless_mbp | odin_: have you ever tried merging two package repositories? |
| 17:07.16 | ShadowJK | If the user managed to get modest to collect any significant amount of mails there's something else abnormal going on too ;-) |
| 17:07.25 | timeless_mbp | it's roughly apt-get dist-update between competing apt-vendors |
| 17:07.32 | odin_ | but /home/opt/maemo/ should not be considered "user data" ?? |
| 17:07.32 | timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: shh |
| 17:07.46 | timeless_mbp | odin_: but /home/opt shares space with /home/user |
| 17:07.49 | *** join/#maemo Pebby (n=pebby@c-98-248-129-187.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 17:07.50 | timeless_mbp | it's the same stupid file system |
| 17:07.51 | *** join/#maemo lpotter (n=quiggly@CPE-58-173-176-153.wucz1.woo.bigpond.net.au) |
| 17:07.56 | timeless_mbp | please go read the output from df |
| 17:08.02 | odin_ | it should be considers extra system space which is managed by SSU |
| 17:08.06 | timeless_mbp | and keep in mind that flashing is not aware of file system structure |
| 17:08.13 | odin_ | who cares its the same |
| 17:08.17 | timeless_mbp | flashing writes raw data |
| 17:08.19 | ShadowJK | maybe it'd be easier to just move and symlink all the extra crap you've installed |
| 17:08.23 | timeless_mbp | that happens to become a file system |
| 17:08.33 | timeless_mbp | it's easier not to use ham |
| 17:08.42 | timeless_mbp | and to use apt configured w/ alt-root |
| 17:08.57 | timeless_mbp | w/ a bit of black magic, you could make apt do the right thing (tm) |
| 17:09.09 | odin_ | I've audier a number of packages installed but can't see where the bulk of the problem is.. I have further work to do, to identify problem packages, I think the /usr/lib/ is a good place to look |
| 17:09.43 | odin_ | heh.. I'm not after a black magic device... just simply solutions non-linux-experts can use |
| 17:09.47 | *** join/#maemo JPohlmann (n=jannis@xfce/core-developer/JPohlmann) |
| 17:10.08 | timeless_mbp | only install stuff that's been promoted to extras |
| 17:10.17 | timeless_mbp | and let's go fix the couple of broken things in extras |
| 17:10.26 | odin_ | are you saying after a reflash that all the packages that were previously installed but placed into /home/opt will all be re-installed/re-linked ? |
| 17:10.30 | timeless_mbp | (note: this doesn't actually work, but for now, that's our story, and let's stick to it) |
| 17:10.53 | timeless_mbp | odin_: after a reflash / and /home are out of sync |
| 17:11.03 | timeless_mbp | if the package database lives in /, then it won't know about anything in /home |
| 17:11.13 | timeless_mbp | if it's in /home, then it won't know about anything in / |
| 17:11.16 | odin_ | so what is the problem anyhow... that /var/lib/dpkg is moved, since it doesn't matter after a reflash |
| 17:11.17 | timeless_mbp | neither way works |
| 17:11.23 | timeless_mbp | um, wtf |
| 17:11.27 | timeless_mbp | it most certainly does matter |
| 17:11.33 | odin_ | moving it does not increase problems |
| 17:11.36 | timeless_mbp | because you want to be able to do system upgrades over the air |
| 17:11.40 | *** join/#maemo lpotter_ (n=quiggly@CPE-58-173-176-153.wucz1.woo.bigpond.net.au) |
| 17:11.51 | timeless_mbp | you need to know which system packages and versions are installed |
| 17:12.08 | timeless_mbp | anyway, please go away and think about this for a month |
| 17:12.20 | timeless_mbp | you clearly haven't, and you're wasting my time and raising my blood pressure |
| 17:12.26 | odin_ | did you read the script ? there is a symlink left /var/lib/dpkg -> /opt/maemo/var/lib/dpkg |
| 17:12.31 | *** join/#maemo davidost (n=user@c83-255-36-30.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 17:12.42 | timeless_mbp | after flashing, what happens to that symlink? |
| 17:12.45 | timeless_mbp | it's dead jim |
| 17:12.47 | *** part/#maemo davidost (n=user@c83-255-36-30.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 17:12.50 | odin_ | so what ? |
| 17:12.53 | odin_ | you reflashed |
| 17:12.54 | timeless_mbp | you now have two incompatible package databases |
| 17:12.59 | timeless_mbp | how the heck do you merge them? |
| 17:13.03 | odin_ | all my packages where are also in /home/opt are gone too |
| 17:13.14 | ShadowJK | Even without the symlink, the database gets overwritten? |
| 17:13.15 | odin_ | there is no *new* problem created |
| 17:13.19 | *** join/#maemo davidost (n=user@c83-255-36-30.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 17:13.42 | timeless_mbp | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:13.42 | timeless_mbp | if [ -d "/opt/maemo/var/lib/dpkg" ] |
| 17:13.42 | timeless_mbp | then |
| 17:13.42 | timeless_mbp | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:13.43 | timeless_mbp | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:13.45 | timeless_mbp | sure there is |
| 17:13.52 | timeless_mbp | the second time i try to run your script, it fails |
| 17:13.56 | ShadowJK | And with the symlink, you happen to have a a backup left of the database at the point before flashing? |
| 17:14.01 | odin_ | if I reflash I expect things to be reset |
| 17:14.04 | timeless_mbp | now i have crap in /opt, i can't use teh script again |
| 17:14.37 | timeless_mbp | look |
| 17:14.42 | odin_ | the check at the top of the script is to stop you from running it twice, when it failed a previous time before, so you NEVER loose youe dpkg dir, no matter how many time your try and run it |
| 17:14.51 | timeless_mbp | roughly speaking, the system can't be changed to work the way you're suggesting globally |
| 17:14.51 | odin_ | it is not there so you can re-run it after a reflash |
| 17:15.10 | timeless_mbp | and if we're going to engineer a fix |
| 17:15.14 | timeless_mbp | we might as well get it right |
| 17:15.22 | timeless_mbp | getting it right involves support for merged package databases |
| 17:15.22 | odin_ | sure you work on that :) |
| 17:15.26 | timeless_mbp | via an alt root |
| 17:15.37 | greenfly | not only that, if the package database is unaffected after a firmware update, what happens to the packages that didn't install in /opt, but are now gone, yet the database that didn't get overwritten still thinks they are there? |
| 17:15.48 | Myrtti | *sigh* |
| 17:15.52 | Myrtti | sdk won't install :-( |
| 17:15.53 | timeless_mbp | greenfly: :) |
| 17:16.24 | odin_ | greenfly, lol.. but the symlink is gone, when you reflash the dpkg if moved back on device |
| 17:16.46 | greenfly | this is a harder problem than anyone in here is going to fix with a few symlinks and a 10-line bash script |
| 17:17.00 | greenfly | odin_: yeah and the package database will at that point be broken and incorrect |
| 17:17.08 | odin_ | the problem is rootfs exhaustion and the non-scalable use of HAM |
| 17:17.16 | greenfly | odin_: unless you can know with a certainty that EVERY package it knows of was installed in /opt |
| 17:17.21 | greenfly | and they won't be |
| 17:17.27 | tigert | Myrtti: whats the problem? |
| 17:17.29 | odin_ | ^^^ just to re-iterate exactly that the problem domain is |
| 17:17.33 | lucent | is there a way to recover a "bricked" (software no good) phone ... like a hardware USB storage mode or something? |
| 17:17.46 | lucent | adds "N900" |
| 17:18.06 | tigert | lucent: reflash? |
| 17:18.12 | lucent | oh okay |
| 17:18.17 | w00t | lucent: tried flashing? |
| 17:18.21 | odin_ | ~reflash |
| 17:18.22 | infobot | rumour has it, reflash is zImage and/or initrd.bin on CF and press C+D+Reset (collie) OR updater.sh, zimage.bin and/or initrd.bin on CF/SD and press OK while rebooting, then option 4, then CD or SF, then HAI (yes), then wait and cross fingers (all other models) |
| 17:18.28 | jebba | odin, instead of the symlinking etc, you can just do: apt-get -o dir::cache=/home/user/MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache ... |
| 17:18.38 | lucent | I ordered, haven't received yet. Just starting to get curious about it |
| 17:18.48 | odin_ | jebba, I am not using "apt-get" and never have use it, I am using HAM |
| 17:18.59 | jebba | ah gotcha |
| 17:19.00 | tigert | eh |
| 17:19.01 | Stskeeps | lucent: define recover |
| 17:19.15 | lucent | lol @ instructions for zaurus |
| 17:19.24 | tigert | infobot is on crack |
| 17:19.25 | infobot | No, I'm not! |
| 17:19.30 | w00t | hah |
| 17:19.42 | tigert | ~lart infobot |
| 17:19.42 | infobot | brandishes Excalibur! "With this sword, I vanquish thee, tigert!" and lops off tigert's head |
| 17:19.47 | lucent | I used to own a zaurus c3000 and I recognize those |
| 17:19.50 | sejo | sorry was afk for a while... does anyone know if the n900 can speak caldav? |
| 17:20.22 | w00t | sejo: I do not believe so, but I'm not an expert ther |
| 17:20.24 | w00t | e |
| 17:20.34 | tigert | it would be fun to run the same infobot on some other embedded linux channel as well, with a shared database :) |
| 17:20.51 | timeless_mbp | jebba: yeah, he's not changing the .deb cache |
| 17:20.57 | timeless_mbp | he's changing where the package db lives |
| 17:21.02 | Myrtti | tigert: hm, I think I might have fixed it, woes with 64-bit... discussions long gone with workmates in our internal jabber chatrooms suddenly come back as flashbacks |
| 17:21.27 | sejo | thx w00t |
| 17:21.29 | tigert | ok |
| 17:21.30 | jebba | certainly would be fantastic to have more space on / since the device has so much fkn space, but no need to retread that path.... |
| 17:21.47 | odin_ | simply because 5% use for just the package db is significant (IMHO) considering packages will only increase now and could easily be 10% before the next model is out |
| 17:22.05 | timeless_mbp | hrm, is crash-reporter available to normal people? |
| 17:22.25 | jebba | perhaps 1G NAND by then (?). was pretty easy to install a "lot" and brick the device, and we dont even have 5% of the app repo that will be there in a year. |
| 17:22.41 | w00t | timeless_mbp: how do I check? |
| 17:22.53 | timeless_mbp | w00t: it'd be in 'other' in ham |
| 17:22.59 | w00t | one moment |
| 17:23.16 | tigert | w00t: check your controlpanel first |
| 17:23.26 | w00t | hmm? |
| 17:23.31 | tigert | if it has the last item as "crash reporter" |
| 17:23.39 | w00t | will do, one moment |
| 17:23.50 | tigert | since HAM wont show it in the package list if it is already installed |
| 17:24.19 | tigert | well, it would be in the uninstall section of course |
| 17:24.49 | w00t | not in HAM or control panel that I can see |
| 17:25.00 | sejo | btw should I stick to the "web" application or install fennec? |
| 17:25.01 | *** join/#maemo sphenxes02 (n=sphenxes@85-127-206-126.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 17:25.05 | timeless_mbp | tigert: crash-reporter needs art for ham, xxx please fix for me? :) |
| 17:25.21 | timeless_mbp | sejo: you should install fennec, decide you don't like it, and uninstall it |
| 17:25.30 | w00t | ^ |
| 17:25.32 | sejo | lol |
| 17:25.37 | timeless_mbp | it's free, no reason to take someone else's word for it |
| 17:25.47 | timeless_mbp | make up your own mind, don't be a sheep or a lemming |
| 17:26.16 | *** join/#maemo EspadaV8_L (n=espadav8@93-97-175-175.zone5.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:26.25 | jebba | image viewer is fantastic, btw :) nice job |
| 17:26.29 | odin_ | jebba, maybe the package manager should do the disk-space checks from the point of view of a non-root user, so a package installed even though running as root can't use the reserved filesystem space |
| 17:26.37 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@81.187.141.95) |
| 17:26.38 | *** join/#maemo sphenxes01 (n=sphenxes@85-127-206-126.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 17:26.56 | timeless_mbp | odin_: the file system is compressed |
| 17:27.00 | *** join/#maemo woglinde (i=woglinde@78.52.231.175) |
| 17:27.02 | timeless_mbp | there's no way to get useful answers |
| 17:27.04 | woglinde | hi |
| 17:27.11 | sejo | timeless_mbp: ok asked it because 1) i'm interested in what others have tested 2) because I have no interest in playnig vith it if it is a memory hog or battery drainer |
| 17:27.26 | timeless_mbp | it's a web browser |
| 17:27.34 | timeless_mbp | they're all memory hogs and battery leaches |
| 17:27.53 | odin_ | timeless_mbp, then there should be a mechnism to request an answer, i.e. re-compact/compress/evaluation the ubifs and give me the real numbers |
| 17:27.54 | hardaker2 | sejo: it's slow and big. In theory, with weave it would be kinda cool for that feature. but I haven't actually gotten the weave plugin to even work. |
| 17:27.56 | timeless_mbp | but next time, just explain why you're asking first, you'll save some aggravation :) |
| 17:28.05 | timeless_mbp | odin_: nope. |
| 17:28.28 | timeless_mbp | you can't know what will happen until you do it |
| 17:28.28 | SpeedEvil | timeless: lynx |
| 17:28.44 | SpeedEvil | (though somewhat given on the memory leeches) |
| 17:28.50 | timeless_mbp | it's roughly a Schrödinger's cat problem |
| 17:29.09 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: oh, i could offer telnet... |
| 17:29.11 | timeless_mbp | but really |
| 17:29.13 | SpeedEvil | giggles at the concept of the n920 launching with multitouch lynx. |
| 17:29.22 | odin_ | where a packages that are downloaded stored ? before install by HAM ? |
| 17:29.54 | tigert | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:30.17 | woglinde | ~seen javispedro |
| 17:30.19 | infobot | javispedro <n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 18h 42m 53s ago, saying: ':) well, gnite'. |
| 17:30.19 | tigert | no? |
| 17:30.26 | odin_ | 11Mb in /var/lib/apt 2.5% |
| 17:30.27 | sp3000 | MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache/ sounds plausible |
| 17:30.40 | tigert | shuts up :) |
| 17:31.37 | sp3000 | the bits I see in /var/cache/apt/archives are packages installed manually w/ apt-get |
| 17:32.09 | ShadowJK | I think crash-reporter is in the sdk tools repo |
| 17:32.12 | odin_ | so you need a loop back fs driver for ubifs to null storage which can provide information about on-disk compression ratios |
| 17:32.23 | sejo | bleh fennec doesn't render by blog sicely soo no-go |
| 17:32.25 | *** join/#maemo JPohlmann (n=jannis@xfce/core-developer/JPohlmann) |
| 17:32.33 | sejo | s/sicely/nicely/ |
| 17:32.53 | suihkulokki | lynx is kinda dead, now we need someone to create webkit-ncurses.. |
| 17:33.05 | tigert | aalib:) |
| 17:33.08 | sejo | suihkulokki: why not try w3m? |
| 17:33.08 | timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: oh sure, that'll help memory use |
| 17:34.55 | Myrtti | links ⥠|
| 17:35.32 | jebba | HOWTO zoom image in image viewer tho? |
| 17:35.50 | w00t | volume control |
| 17:35.52 | timeless_mbp | jebba: hardware volume keys |
| 17:36.05 | odin_ | anyhow not trying to squeeze the very last Mb out of rootfs, just after early warning of getting full and better limits in HAM (especially if the problem causes bricked devices, maybe ubifs and the roofs could expand the volume during the bootup and take back those pages again to reseve for the next bootup) |
| 17:36.28 | timeless_mbp | ??? |
| 17:36.51 | timeless_mbp | you do understand that there's a physical piece of hardware behind ubifs, right? |
| 17:37.10 | odin_ | maybe tacking pages of ram will do it, onto the volume |
| 17:37.20 | timeless_mbp | ... |
| 17:37.22 | w00t | umm.. |
| 17:37.31 | jebba | ah, i see. That was bringing up image browser (multiple thumbnails) on some images. Though I've also read that volume shouldnt be used for that (?) https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6347 |
| 17:37.32 | Stskeeps | twitches |
| 17:37.33 | povbot` | Bug 6347: [metabug] N900 Hardware key: Zoom vs. Volume inconsistencies |
| 17:37.33 | odin_ | yes and you can keep pages reserved for bootup if you wanted... just like other aspect of ubifs |
| 17:37.38 | greenfly | you might be able to get away with some sort of unionfs, if it were stable enough, but even that solution has problems |
| 17:37.59 | w00t | sedates Stskeeps |
| 17:38.08 | timeless_mbp | unionfs doesn't really solve the package db problem |
| 17:38.18 | greenfly | right |
| 17:38.18 | timeless_mbp | qnx is about the only system i know that got this right |
| 17:38.27 | timeless_mbp | but packaging for qnx was so hard that everyone hated doing it |
| 17:38.28 | greenfly | that's among the problems :) |
| 17:38.36 | odin_ | I am making a presumption that bricked devices are due to 100% full rootfs, and the device won't boot if it can't write out some files |
| 17:38.39 | timeless_mbp | i think qnx packaging was probably actually not as bad as maemo packaging |
| 17:38.42 | timeless_mbp | but... |
| 17:38.54 | timeless_mbp | odin_: do us a favor and don't? |
| 17:38.56 | *** join/#maemo grinseka1ze (n=grinseka@clue20.linguistik.uni-erlangen.de) |
| 17:39.22 | odin_ | just for clarification, I'm not only talking about package db issue here, I am talking from the point of view of making a full fs condition not cause bricked devices |
| 17:39.24 | jebba | but that's pretty much true. Fill 100%, get brick. |
| 17:39.52 | odin_ | less bricked devices == more happy people |
| 17:39.57 | timeless_mbp | shrugs |
| 17:40.02 | RST38h | Bug 6347: [metabug] Give us the hardware keys back! |
| 17:40.04 | povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6347 [metabug] N900 Hardware key: Zoom vs. Volume inconsistencies |
| 17:40.06 | timeless_mbp | a user who manages to fill his device |
| 17:40.15 | timeless_mbp | will manage to fill his device no matter how many extra k you give him |
| 17:40.20 | timeless_mbp | he'll still be unhappy |
| 17:40.27 | timeless_mbp | sometimes it's better to fire your customer |
| 17:40.27 | odin_ | maybe also a yellow/red band warning in the device "your rootfs is low on space" |
| 17:40.39 | timeless_mbp | under what conditions? |
| 17:40.44 | timeless_mbp | gecko is um, ~10mb |
| 17:40.46 | odin_ | timeless_mbp, not sure I'm on your wavelength there timeless |
| 17:40.58 | timeless_mbp | webkit if it has to pull in qt.net is ~25 |
| 17:41.18 | timeless_mbp | if you try to install one of those, the warning at 5mb would be vaguely useless |
| 17:41.28 | timeless_mbp | but if you try to install a 10k package, a warning at 5mb would also be useless |
| 17:41.50 | odin_ | huh HAM (apt-get) should not be installing them in the first place, which is a sep issue |
| 17:42.01 | RST38h | Most managers will eventially find it easier to fire the employee who systematically suggest firing their customers... |
| 17:42.12 | timeless_mbp | RST38h: not in finland :) |
| 17:42.35 | *** join/#maemo ferdna (n=ferdna@cpe-24-92-112-49.elp.res.rr.com) |
| 17:42.35 | odin_ | the red/yellow band warning is a general usage monitor/indicator |
| 17:42.41 | timeless_mbp | besides, @nokia, we have a really screwy concept of who the customer is |
| 17:42.56 | jebba | certainly not geeks on irc! ;) |
| 17:42.57 | timeless_mbp | historically it was some other entity entirely unrelated to real customers |
| 17:43.02 | timeless_mbp | which was rather unfortunate |
| 17:43.05 | *** join/#maemo goshawk (n=quassel@93-34-59-11.ip48.fastwebnet.it) |
| 17:43.15 | timeless_mbp | but do note, that as jebba writes, eventually geeks on irc are not the target audience |
| 17:44.17 | timeless_mbp | look, if there's a bug in apt, there's a bug in apt |
| 17:44.22 | timeless_mbp | find the bug, and get it fixed |
| 17:44.30 | odin_ | the target audience are the twats out there with money and no sense who fall for marketing schemes of the time |
| 17:44.32 | timeless_mbp | ideally apt should not hose any system |
| 17:44.48 | timeless_mbp | didn't say that :) |
| 17:44.51 | odin_ | lol I am not using apt.. HAM would prolyl hose my system |
| 17:45.16 | Myrtti | I'm becoming more and more cynical and impatient... *sigh* |
| 17:45.19 | timeless_mbp | apt in this case being apt as a system, including apt-worker and the apt libraries |
| 17:45.38 | odin_ | which HAM is using undernearth... ok understood |
| 17:45.42 | jebba | i just talked to a total non-tech who is using N900 now and is blown away by it. (google talk being something he really liked + qik) |
| 17:46.11 | timeless_mbp | qik? |
| 17:46.21 | jebba | qik.com it's an app in extras too |
| 17:46.30 | w00t | Myrtti: whyfor? |
| 17:47.09 | odin_ | what about a package management plugin for libapt (or whatever its called) that can deal with pre-compressed/optimized/container file based packagedb's ? |
| 17:47.15 | Myrtti | w00t: I just want to slap people that I can't withstand... |
| 17:47.31 | Myrtti | goes back to watching telly and to knit |
| 17:47.33 | w00t | Myrtti: :-/ |
| 17:47.39 | odin_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:47.41 | Stskeeps | gets Myrtti the power to electrocute people over the internet |
| 17:47.48 | w00t | Stskeeps: stab-over-ip |
| 17:48.31 | odin_ | or even better just a single file /var/lib/dpkg/one-big-package-db-dont-look-inside-me |
| 17:49.14 | timeless_mbp | ok, qik looks cool |
| 17:49.50 | *** join/#maemo Shellevil (n=user@87.113.129.2) |
| 17:53.48 | timeless_mbp | odin_: i think there has been some discussion of using loopback mounted file systems for some of these things |
| 17:54.24 | timeless_mbp | trying to use gzip is probably to some extent a layering violation, and is certainly fairly invasive |
| 17:55.39 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 17:55.44 | timeless_mbp | spots a packaging bug |
| 17:55.52 | odin_ | timeless_mbp, those ideas just off-the-cuff I don't know enough about 'libapt' and I can't say I have any motivation to address/fix those things |
| 17:55.55 | jebba | timeless_mbp: so i went through like 100 images in the image viewer and rotated ones that had incorrect rotation. They appear fine when viewing them full screen and in "tools" mode, but as thumbnails they are not correct rotation. |
| 17:56.02 | sp3000 | gzip won't help much on a compressed fx |
| 17:56.06 | sp3000 | fs even |
| 17:56.27 | timeless_mbp | jebba: i can't same i'm shocked |
| 17:56.32 | timeless_mbp | find /file a bug :) |
| 17:56.41 | jebba | mkay |
| 17:56.54 | timeless_mbp | jebba: note that you earn karma for filing good unique bugs |
| 17:57.00 | odin_ | anyone know what compression does it use itself ? |
| 17:57.09 | timeless_mbp | so this isn't just useless work |
| 17:57.34 | timeless_mbp | http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/doc/ubifs.html |
| 17:57.42 | timeless_mbp | would it shock you to learn there's actually documentation? |
| 17:57.49 | RST38h | Myrtti: Hey, what are you getting impatient about? Haven't you decided to skip Maemo5 altogether? =) |
| 17:57.50 | sp3000 | don't recall, lzop/gz/none either statically or dynamically |
| 17:57.53 | timeless_mbp | that you could find using your favorite search engine? |
| 17:57.57 | Shellevil | timeless so you might earn another n900? |
| 17:58.05 | sp3000 | something in that ballpark |
| 17:58.07 | odin_ | zlib an LZO but which is used inN900 ? |
| 17:58.13 | timeless_mbp | Shellevil: or a discount on an n900.next? something like that |
| 17:58.16 | jebba | ya, no kidding. what a buncha karma do anyway? free burritos? |
| 17:58.20 | jebba | ah ok. |
| 17:58.30 | RST38h | odin: libz is libz everywhere |
| 17:58.33 | timeless_mbp | jebba: it can also get you a search |
| 17:58.37 | timeless_mbp | s/search/shirt/ |
| 17:58.39 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 17:58.44 | timeless_mbp | i have an orange one |
| 17:59.09 | odin_ | speaking of libz, where is it in userspace? ls -l /lib/lib*z*so /usr/lib/lib*z*so does not yeild a result |
| 17:59.10 | Stskeeps | same :P |
| 17:59.13 | Shellevil | xchat - is there a way to hide the top bar? |
| 17:59.31 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: why can't i find a single FiF shirt on google? |
| 18:00.08 | Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: dunno. i wear it at home mostly :P |
| 18:00.12 | RST38h | odin: /usr/lib no? |
| 18:00.13 | jebba | Shellevil: not that i've found -- looked for same thing |
| 18:00.33 | RST38h | Stskeeps: I have got VE working. ON a 800x480 screen. |
| 18:00.38 | sp3000 | rotating an image updates its thumb for me ok |
| 18:00.41 | Stskeeps | RST38h: cool |
| 18:01.00 | RST38h | Stskeeps: Will package into a deb, but not going to deal with autobuilder |
| 18:01.09 | timeless_mbp | ve? |
| 18:01.23 | RST38h | Stskeeps: So, whoever would like to push it through autobuilder, be my guest(s) and earn extra 40 or so karma |
| 18:01.33 | Stskeeps | RST38h: try to push source somewhere though |
| 18:01.56 | RST38h | Stskeeps: It is 29MB and involves complicated system of makefiles |
| 18:02.02 | sp3000 | odin_: you're missing an asterisk |
| 18:02.24 | RST38h | Stskeeps: + I will have to add .desktop, change default config, add packaging, and probably add a few keyboard shortcuts |
| 18:02.35 | RST38h | Stskeeps: The rest I actively refuse to deal with :) |
| 18:02.52 | odin_ | sp3000, ah yeah no -devel packges on device :) duh! |
| 18:04.27 | PolarFox | has anyone done anything to get mail more often than waiting 5 minutes? :) |
| 18:04.48 | jebba | sp3000: was that with an image that had EXIF data? Mine had previous EXIF data. |
| 18:05.02 | PolarFox | Maemo wont do IMAP idle nicely, So is there a "hack" to make it go faster :) |
| 18:05.09 | timeless_mbp | oops |
| 18:05.11 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 18:05.12 | Myrtti | RST38h: impatient about everything, not just maemo. I've recently quit several other, far more personally important irc channels because I couldn't handle idiots gracefully anymore |
| 18:05.14 | timeless_mbp | botched something |
| 18:05.35 | *** join/#maemo Speedevil (n=user@87.113.129.2) |
| 18:06.02 | RST38h | Myrtti: May I suggest reading scp-wiki.wikidot.com? It is almost as pacifying as knitting |
| 18:06.20 | jebba | Myrtti: fire up /ignore ... |
| 18:06.43 | redeeman | Myrtti: did you get the sdk working? |
| 18:06.48 | RST38h | checked tmo this morning and all he found were Oct2009ers actively discussing some completely bogus stuff |
| 18:06.55 | Myrtti | redeeman: yeah |
| 18:06.58 | redeeman | ok good |
| 18:07.20 | Myrtti | well, I haven't tried it yet, but atleast it installed |
| 18:07.33 | RST38h | And yes, first 4 /ignores set for some #maemo characters =( |
| 18:07.55 | redeeman | odin_: are you still interrested in stuff to clean up / with? |
| 18:07.59 | Myrtti | jebba: old habits die hard, as an ex op of many channels I lack the skill of ignoring idiots, that's the worst part of it |
| 18:08.48 | redeeman | odin_: you could probably remove around 10MB of locales and timezones, i do however not know if the timezones are used for the world clock or not(however, i would speculate not) |
| 18:08.49 | *** join/#maemo tomdavidson (n=quassel@uwyo-129-72-152-201.uwyo.edu) |
| 18:09.10 | PolarFox | Myrtti: I hope anyone didn't expect #maemo to survive N900 release. |
| 18:10.13 | Myrtti | PolarFox: I've not had high hopes at any point... |
| 18:10.37 | *** join/#maemo Fazias (n=nnscript@212-149-213-180.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 18:11.05 | timeless_mbp | PolarFox: the n900 was already released |
| 18:11.17 | Zeddeh | how do i get subtitle support for the media player on the n900? |
| 18:11.24 | RST38h | you do not |
| 18:11.30 | timeless_mbp | redeeman: they're used by the clock |
| 18:11.32 | Robot101 | timeless_mbp: I think that was his point |
| 18:11.34 | Zeddeh | are there any other players? |
| 18:11.38 | timeless_mbp | so yeah, that'd almost certainly break things |
| 18:11.38 | RST38h | mplayer |
| 18:11.48 | redeeman | timeless_mbp: but also for the worldclock to see other timezones? |
| 18:11.58 | redeeman | oh well. guess those shouldn't be removed then |
| 18:12.01 | redeeman | but the locales certainly can |
| 18:12.09 | jebba | sp3000: it has changed it for some, not others (thumbnail rotation). They both have exif info. Hmm. I wonder if the cache is just lagging or something |
| 18:12.11 | Fazias | could anyone care to tell me how can i get the drnoksnes to launch my roms :p? |
| 18:12.14 | timeless_mbp | redeeman: well, the world clock data just points to timezone files |
| 18:12.17 | *** part/#maemo davidost (n=user@c83-255-36-30.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 18:12.24 | RST38h | http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2009/12/03/nokia-buy-palm-dump-symbian-axe-maemo-hire-rubinstein-and-do-it-now-analyst-advises/ |
| 18:12.29 | RST38h | Ahahahahaha |
| 18:12.30 | tigert | GAN900: around? |
| 18:12.39 | timeless_mbp | and the datafile can be changed to rely on a different set of timezones .. |
| 18:13.52 | jebba | my TZ data (Buenos Aires) is incorrect.... (bug filed) |
| 18:14.07 | timeless_mbp | jebba: isn't your time zone the one where your government was broken? |
| 18:14.13 | sp3000 | that's the one :) |
| 18:14.23 | timeless_mbp | jebba: resolved: fix your government |
| 18:14.35 | timeless_mbp | (move?) |
| 18:14.50 | *** join/#maemo gunni (n=quassel@xdsl-84-44-134-242.netcologne.de) |
| 18:15.02 | jebba | timeless_mbp: oh, i'd certainly love to do both, believe me. |
| 18:15.10 | Speedevil | Or overthrow |
| 18:15.32 | sp3000 | doesn't want to do his government |
| 18:15.33 | *** join/#maemo Flyser (n=flyser@unaffiliated/flyser) |
| 18:15.40 | tigert | hmm |
| 18:15.46 | tigert | anyone still in maebar? |
| 18:15.57 | tigert | planning for dinner or such? |
| 18:17.14 | *** join/#maemo Firebird (n=Firebird@pool-138-88-215-39.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 18:17.36 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: eep |
| 18:17.41 | timeless_mbp | somehow i ended up using enus0 |
| 18:20.44 | Shapeshifter | Is it normal with these kinds of devices that there are quite a few bad eggs among new units or is the n900 something to be worried about? broken mics, broken screens, leaking screens, leaking keyboards, unstable usb-ports... |
| 18:20.51 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (n=geaaru@host143-209-dynamic.50-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:21.33 | tigert | leaking keyboards? |
| 18:21.44 | Shapeshifter | tigert: leaking light |
| 18:21.49 | Shapeshifter | between keys |
| 18:22.16 | Stskeeps | Shapeshifter: moist SD card ports |
| 18:22.18 | tigert | right |
| 18:22.22 | Stskeeps | oh, that was n8x0.. |
| 18:22.25 | RST38h | What is a leaking screen? or a leaking keyboard? |
| 18:22.51 | *** join/#maemo shpaq (n=shpaq@gentoo/user/shpaq) |
| 18:22.52 | Shapeshifter | RST38h: screen leaking light, being illuminated unevenly, keyboard leaking light between keys |
| 18:23.05 | RST38h | the fragile usb port is indeed a problem, I hope they back down and add a normal power connector to the next model |
| 18:23.13 | pekuja | Shapeshifter: I'd say that's pretty common. new devices always have problems |
| 18:23.13 | RST38h | Shapeshifter: bullshit mostly |
| 18:23.24 | timeless_mbp | Shapeshifter: there's actually a feature for having very bright lights behind half the keyboard |
| 18:23.38 | *** join/#maemo zap_ (n=zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net) |
| 18:23.44 | pekuja | Shapeshifter: you just have to hope you don't get one of the bad eggs I suppose. or wait :-/ |
| 18:23.50 | Fazias | bah, managed to find my solution to drnoksnes from irclogs, thank god for search... Time to enjoy my n900 more! |
| 18:23.52 | pekuja | Shapeshifter: early adopters usually get screwed a bit |
| 18:23.56 | timeless_mbp | RST38h: not going to happen |
| 18:23.58 | divinegod | i've just filed bug 6653, problems with h264 videos |
| 18:23.59 | povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6653 was not found. |
| 18:24.00 | Shapeshifter | mh. |
| 18:24.07 | RST38h | Shapeshifter: the only "uneven illumination" I can see is a slight variation in brightness at the rightmost edge, but you have to consciously look for it |
| 18:24.11 | timeless_mbp | have you paid any attn to the European union demands for a standard charging cable? |
| 18:24.12 | *** join/#maemo Mece (n=mece@KMMCDLII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:24.28 | *** join/#maemo digitalstimulus (n=digitals@cpe-071-077-144-145.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 18:24.30 | RST38h | Shapeshifter: leaky keyboard illumination is some kind of bullshit |
| 18:24.31 | divinegod | s/6653/6635/ |
| 18:24.34 | povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6635 OpenMax returns error when trying to play an mp4 file with h264 video |
| 18:24.35 | Mece | wow' xchat is nice |
| 18:24.49 | Fazias | it is |
| 18:24.58 | RST38h | Shapeshifter: Yes, keys may be somewhat unevenly illuminated (there are just so many leds underneath), but it isn't an issue really |
| 18:25.37 | RST38h | timeless: providing BOTH has not been explicitely prohibited by the EU |
| 18:25.43 | Speedevil | The LED brightness is settable per Led |
| 18:26.07 | RST38h | And by only providing that USB connector Nokia sets itself up for support trouble |
| 18:26.16 | Speedevil | You can even animate them |
| 18:26.19 | timeless_mbp | shrugs |
| 18:26.22 | RST38h | In about 3 months form now |
| 18:26.28 | timeless_mbp | nokia needs to get the usb port working right <period> |
| 18:26.38 | RST38h | Probably impossible |
| 18:26.41 | timeless_mbp | not getting it right would be *bad* |
| 18:26.48 | Speedevil | host++ |
| 18:26.56 | Mece | hmm the user list has too big font, but otherwise xchat seems very good. |
| 18:26.56 | Speedevil | (imo) |
| 18:27.02 | RST38h | The logic behind it (as in not charging when being plugged into PC) should be fixable |
| 18:27.12 | RST38h | Even electrical circuitry can be fixed (i.e. USB host) |
| 18:27.16 | tigert | Speedevil: you can also tune the notification leds |
| 18:27.24 | RST38h | Mechanics are a no go though |
| 18:27.27 | tigert | Speedevil: like make email and chat blinks different color |
| 18:27.29 | tigert | mce.ini |
| 18:27.46 | Mece | this should be pushed to testing soon imo |
| 18:27.51 | redeeman | what is wrong with the usb port? |
| 18:27.54 | RST38h | Well, dunno, maybe if you fix the whole assembly with some kind of plastic goo... |
| 18:28.04 | *** join/#maemo GiantTalkingCow (n=quassel@adsl-76-211-235-184.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:28.07 | RST38h | redeeman: apparently becomes loose |
| 18:28.15 | Speedevil | mece: yeah - BUT for the save settings thing |
| 18:28.21 | RST38h | redeeman: with the socket tearing off the board |
| 18:28.34 | redeeman | wtf |
| 18:29.06 | Mece | SpeedEvil, oh? I guess I didn't save settings |
| 18:29.06 | RST38h | totally expected if you ask me |
| 18:29.24 | RST38h | MicroUSB is flimsy and not supposed to be used often (as in for charging) |
| 18:29.31 | Speedevil | mece crashes on exit of prefs |
| 18:29.51 | redeeman | RST38h: i have devices with microusb that has been replugged many hundreds of times with no issues |
| 18:30.03 | Shapeshifter | RST38h: no, I mean, actually wrongly cut out keyboards or something. Here, at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysI62VO9ohw 2:50 |
| 18:30.06 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: *wah* |
| 18:30.10 | Shapeshifter | oh and I forgot dead pixels. |
| 18:30.11 | timeless_mbp | my installer is broken |
| 18:30.16 | RST38h | redeeman: apparently, statistics are different |
| 18:30.18 | Speedevil | rst: the variant usesd hasx 10000 cycle typ |
| 18:30.23 | redeeman | RST38h: interresting |
| 18:30.44 | ShadowJK | Nokia E75 has both 2mm and microusb charging :) |
| 18:30.51 | RST38h | Speedevil: much fewer for a lot of people, it seems |
| 18:31.04 | redeeman | is that 10k cycles for the microusb port? |
| 18:31.14 | RST38h | Speedevil: the 10k figure may apply to the socket itself not to the assembly |
| 18:31.30 | RST38h | ShadowJK: Hey, E70 has the mighty 3.5mm plug |
| 18:31.36 | RST38h | ShadowJK: THAT thing NEVER broke on me |
| 18:31.38 | Speedevil | rst: and you get early fails with any hardware |
| 18:31.54 | Speedevil | rst: assembly? |
| 18:32.03 | ShadowJK | RST38h, I have one broken 3.5mm, one working 3.5mm and 3 working 2mm :) |
| 18:32.14 | RST38h | Speedevil: the socket is soldered to the board, that connection breaks according to tmo reports |
| 18:32.22 | ShadowJK | Speedevil, the port itself doesn't break, but everything around it breaks |
| 18:32.27 | RST38h | ShadowJK: Did you chew on it? =) |
| 18:32.29 | ShadowJK | RST38h, I don't think it's soldered on |
| 18:32.32 | Speedevil | rst: soldered to pcb, That's it |
| 18:32.49 | ShadowJK | RST38h, dunno, I think the contacts inside are worn out and not pushing against hte plug sufficiently |
| 18:32.59 | RST38h | ShadowJK: 2mms often go back in N8x0s, apparently - lots of people complained |
| 18:33.01 | Speedevil | shad: that is not expected. |
| 18:33.15 | ShadowJK | I think it's not even soldered on N8x0? iirc sts swapped one with no soldering |
| 18:33.24 | RST38h | Interesting |
| 18:33.35 | *** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@a91-153-253-251.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:33.35 | Speedevil | the life figure does not include it falling off! |
| 18:33.44 | ShadowJK | Speedevil, indeed :) |
| 18:34.07 | Speedevil | That's a fault in process or design. |
| 18:34.08 | ShadowJK | One thing I've noticed about the microusb connection, is that it's hard to get it aligned correctly and at the right angle |
| 18:34.08 | *** join/#maemo shpaq__ (n=shpaq@atlnts.org) |
| 18:34.20 | ShadowJK | though the plug on the converter seems better than the plug on the charger... |
| 18:34.32 | RST38h | ShadowJK: Of course, it is a wide rectangular motherfucker |
| 18:34.33 | Speedevil | sha: put fur round it. |
| 18:34.33 | ShadowJK | with the 2mm and 3.5mm things it was pretty easy, if it was aligned it went in |
| 18:34.39 | Shapeshifter | RST38h: seen what I meant by leaking keyboard? |
| 18:34.43 | RST38h | ShadowJK: I can never plug it in the dark |
| 18:34.52 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 18:34.54 | ShadowJK | RST38h, it took me 5 minutes last time :) |
| 18:35.07 | ShadowJK | I have the converter in the car, and there I seem able to plug it in pretty consistently in the dark |
| 18:35.25 | Arkenoi | miniusb is way better than micro |
| 18:35.44 | ShadowJK | The converter gets so hot, I imagine it's sucking up most of hte power itself... heh |
| 18:35.44 | Speedevil | feel the plug |
| 18:35.44 | RST38h | Not getting hot here |
| 18:35.48 | Speedevil | the smooth side is down |
| 18:35.53 | jebba | Mece: xchat isnt "optified" |
| 18:35.55 | RST38h | ShadowJK: I will say the heresy now. |
| 18:36.03 | *** join/#maemo digitalstimulus (n=digitals@cpe-071-077-144-145.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 18:36.13 | RST38h | ShadowJK: N900 needs a charging cradle, like those Casio Exilims. |
| 18:36.17 | jebba | optification will hold back lots of apps. |
| 18:36.18 | ShadowJK | Speedevil, I have no problem finding the right way up. Sensibly, Nokia has only embossed crap on one side of it |
| 18:36.30 | RST38h | ShadowJK: Of course, it means that it would be plugged upside down :) |
| 18:36.56 | ShadowJK | RST38h, upside down and sideways you mean |
| 18:37.03 | *** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@a91-153-253-251.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:37.03 | ShadowJK | :) |
| 18:37.07 | jebba | mece just saved his xchat prefs ;) |
| 18:37.18 | *** join/#maemo Mece (n=mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:37.20 | ShadowJK | I think the crashes in xchat will hold it back more ;) |
| 18:37.28 | Speedevil | I want another 3.5MM stereo socket for charge |
| 18:37.46 | Speedevil | _so_ much better for usb |
| 18:37.56 | Speedevil | but... |
| 18:38.13 | ShadowJK | I'd want all connectors on one side of hte phone, so I could sensibly have headphone and charger plugged in at the same time whilst phone is in pocket |
| 18:38.33 | ShadowJK | right now, phone is going to sit on one plug... |
| 18:38.34 | Myrtti | ShadowJK: lollers. |
| 18:38.43 | suihkulokki | looks for a pony |
| 18:38.43 | RST38h | ShadowJK: well, I assume we finalyl get the portrait mode |
| 18:38.46 | Myrtti | ShadowJK: have you seen N95? |
| 18:38.55 | ShadowJK | Myrtti, at a distance |
| 18:39.03 | jebba | suihkulokki: build up lots of karma points |
| 18:39.05 | RST38h | ShadowJK: But the thing is, the screen should probably be rotatable in all four directions |
| 18:39.20 | Myrtti | the stereo jack is in the UTMOST SHITTIEST place in the history of mobile phones in that one |
| 18:39.22 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 18:39.56 | ShadowJK | Myrtti, does it stick out sideways like the usb on e75? |
| 18:39.56 | sp3000 | tries to imagine the worst possible spot |
| 18:39.59 | sp3000 | in the middle of the screen? :) |
| 18:39.59 | ShadowJK | center of the screen |
| 18:40.01 | Shapeshifter | adding "buzzing sound from 3.5mm plug" to list. |
| 18:40.02 | ShadowJK | lol jinx |
| 18:40.21 | Myrtti | ShadowJK: sideway sticking, oh yes. |
| 18:40.27 | *** join/#maemo ccooke (n=ccooke@cpc1-walt12-2-0-cust1002.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 18:40.28 | ShadowJK | hah |
| 18:40.29 | *** join/#maemo AakashPatel (n=Aakash@75.134.53.175) |
| 18:41.00 | ShadowJK | it wouldn't be so bad if there still existed L shaped headphone plugs, but after iphone those became extinct <g> |
| 18:41.04 | timeless_mbp | oops |
| 18:41.06 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 18:41.17 | ShadowJK | hm |
| 18:41.18 | timeless_mbp | sp3000: i merged an incomplete script into my release :(~ |
| 18:41.31 | Myrtti | http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/2329783976/ |
| 18:41.39 | Speedevil | I went sxo far as to make a low profile l. fun |
| 18:41.56 | Myrtti | making pouches for the N95 is a feat of design because of that bloody hole |
| 18:42.02 | *** join/#maemo Mece (n=mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:42.11 | ShadowJK | Myrtti, lol |
| 18:42.27 | ShadowJK | Presumably the play/pause/etc controls actually work, though :) |
| 18:42.38 | Myrtti | ShadowJK: not if your phone autolocks... |
| 18:42.43 | jebba | hmm, map program (OVI) is in Spanish (my default language), but the maps themselves are english.... |
| 18:42.48 | Myrtti | ShadowJK: which I've noticed WAY too many times |
| 18:42.56 | ShadowJK | oh, my E75 responded to the control even when locked |
| 18:43.15 | Myrtti | keyboard lock or security code locked? |
| 18:43.37 | odin_ | redeeman, du -s /usr/share/zoneinfo/ = 2008 (not 10Mb) also /etc/localtime is the most important part |
| 18:43.38 | ShadowJK | in fact, the only sensible thing was to lock it manually. If you just left it in pocket, the accelerometer would make it flip between portrait and landscape, burning cpu on that and burning power on never switching off the backlight :-) |
| 18:43.44 | ShadowJK | Myrtti, keyboard lock |
| 18:44.09 | redeeman | odin_: i said zoneinfo combined with locales |
| 18:44.20 | Myrtti | ShadowJK: yeah, if only using keyboard lock, then they worked, but I keep my phone autolocking with security key |
| 18:44.27 | ShadowJK | ah |
| 18:44.56 | ShadowJK | Back to that converter thing... when feeding it off of N810 charger, the converter seems to run at about 50C for me? |
| 18:45.06 | timeless_mbp | jebba: hrm |
| 18:45.10 | timeless_mbp | where are you mapping? |
| 18:45.19 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 18:45.19 | ShadowJK | You'd think they put a linear voltage regulator in there... |
| 18:45.33 | sp3000 | I'm not sure if it makes sense to require the key for dedicated media buttons... |
| 18:46.18 | *** join/#maemo dimir (n=dimir@dimir.eu) |
| 18:46.18 | jebba | timeless_mbp: just basical things like "South Pacific Ocean". Note, the first time I ran the app, i had english set, but i have switched over to spanish since then (and have rebooted etc) |
| 18:46.28 | *** join/#maemo killefiz (n=sven@fedora/killefiz) |
| 18:46.54 | jebba | or even "South America" .... as it is calling the continent |
| 18:46.57 | timeless_mbp | ponders |
| 18:47.15 | odin_ | redeeman, maybe like other linux distros, each locale can be installed independantly, I'm not actually looking for any more space on / but what things seem excessive (i.e. could do better) |
| 18:47.31 | timeless_mbp | jebba: if you zoom in on brazil, or argentina, what does it say? |
| 18:47.52 | redeeman | odin_: ok, it just sounded like you wanted to remove stuff, and you can certainly remove lots of locales you'll never need |
| 18:48.01 | timeless_mbp | jebba: note that for Ukraine, the maps showed me stuff in Ukrainian (when they didn't say "Undefined") |
| 18:48.26 | killefiz | are n900 end-user-support questions on-topic in here? |
| 18:48.29 | RST38h | has no problems being shown stuff in Ukrainian. Is it a problem? |
| 18:48.38 | timeless_mbp | killefiz: software support, yes |
| 18:48.41 | timeless_mbp | hardware support, no |
| 18:48.44 | timeless_mbp | -- call nokia care |
| 18:48.47 | RST38h | killefiz: Questions are on topic, answers are not |
| 18:49.10 | killefiz | I'm looking for a way to import contacts from a csv-file |
| 18:49.28 | RST38h | convert it to vcard format, then import vcard |
| 18:49.45 | timeless_mbp | import it to outlook and use pcsuite or mfe |
| 18:49.59 | odin_ | redeeman, localepurge (a debian tool, I wonder if the package management has a way to metatag individual files being locale specific, and then just not install them when no relevant |
| 18:50.00 | killefiz | I don't have windows |
| 18:50.09 | timeless_mbp | so use RST38h 's suggestion |
| 18:50.28 | timeless_mbp | sigh |
| 18:50.29 | killefiz | timeless_mbp: sure - how Do I import multiple vcards then? |
| 18:51.11 | sp3000 | was it possible to concatenate vcards into one file or somesuch? |
| 18:51.15 | timeless_mbp | yes |
| 18:51.24 | timeless_mbp | but wikipedia fail @explaining that |
| 18:51.43 | jebba | timeless_mbp: well, zooming in on buenos aires gives the street names in spanish and such, but there's not even english names for them.... |
| 18:51.59 | Speedevil | hmm |
| 18:52.03 | Myrtti | jebba: what, ovi maps? |
| 18:52.17 | jebba | yes |
| 18:52.18 | Myrtti | jebba: it's dead, Jim. |
| 18:52.26 | RST38h | Is there a problem with Spanish names? They look ok to me. |
| 18:52.31 | jebba | ya, that's true. |
| 18:52.40 | RST38h | Myrtti: "...you take its tricorder, and I will take its purse" |
| 18:52.43 | Speedevil | keyboard with gloves o |
| 18:52.52 | Myrtti | RST38h: we come in peace, shoot to kill |
| 18:52.52 | Speedevil | n o |
| 18:52.54 | jebba | RST38h: i'm saying the map data is in english (E.g. "South America") even when system is set to spanish. |
| 18:53.00 | Speedevil | is m |
| 18:53.08 | RST38h | finally found a place to use this phrase |
| 18:53.11 | jebba | "Brazil" not "Brasil" etc. |
| 18:53.41 | Speedevil | not u |
| 18:53.47 | RST38h | jebba: Yea, GMaps has the same kind of problems |
| 18:54.07 | Speedevil | actually, it is pretty unusab.e |
| 18:54.10 | timeless_mbp | jebba: i think what you'll find is that places are only given one name |
| 18:54.15 | RST38h | jebba: The map data probably lacks the complete set of translations so the system shows whatever it has got |
| 18:54.30 | jebba | .... |
| 18:54.31 | timeless_mbp | translating all the regions into each language is wasteful |
| 18:54.39 | Speedevil | openstreetmap is better in principle |
| 18:54.41 | sp3000 | Speedevil: yeah the gloves eat the tactile feedback so knowing what keys you're on gets pretty impossible |
| 18:55.01 | timeless_mbp | now, the fact that they don't translate continents is probably unfortunate |
| 18:55.03 | RST38h | only ever had problems with untranslated names in Taiwan |
| 18:55.06 | timeless_mbp | but it certainly simplifies implementation |
| 18:55.17 | RST38h | Spanish, Russian, Ukrainian,they are all ok |
| 18:55.27 | tigert | RST38h: Seoul subway map was scary too |
| 18:55.28 | Speedevil | sp3 more that they were stopping me getting to the top row |
| 18:55.31 | timeless_mbp | RST38h: what happened in taiwan? |
| 18:55.37 | sp3000 | so it looks like there's the "local" layer of names and the "global" one and the latter is in english? |
| 18:55.40 | RST38h | hierogyphs |
| 18:55.43 | jebba | if OVI maps is goign to be shitcanned, which map program should i be focusing on? |
| 18:55.54 | timeless_mbp | jebba: maemo mapper |
| 18:55.55 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 18:55.58 | RST38h | has figured a few (for north, south, up, down, exit, etc) but that wasn't enough |
| 18:56.50 | sp3000 | which kinda makes sense, except that the global set coundl be localized, and, um, my chinese isn't that good either so I could use seomething more pronounceable there |
| 18:56.55 | Stskeeps | jebba: maemo mapper or twaeti's webapp |
| 18:57.40 | tigert | depends on what you want |
| 18:57.40 | jebba | ah cool, maemo mapper does it correctly ("Brasil") :) |
| 18:57.48 | tigert | ecoach works ok too |
| 18:58.09 | RST38h | Brazil, Brasil, who cares... |
| 18:58.13 | sp3000 | ok, well, the chinese bits are in latin alphabet in this case so it's workable for me ;) |
| 18:58.27 | jebba | RST38h: well, that was just one example... |
| 18:58.48 | *** join/#maemo JPohlmann (n=jannis@xfce/core-developer/JPohlmann) |
| 18:58.53 | RST38h | jebba: Most European languages use phonetic transcription (more or less) |
| 18:59.19 | RST38h | jebba: So, it is still readable, in whatever language |
| 18:59.19 | jebba | looks like they are just using whatever the country calls itself. Because it has "United States of America" not Estados Unidos, etc. |
| 18:59.23 | *** join/#maemo eie (n=f@unaffiliated/iei) |
| 18:59.49 | ruskie | http://sprunge.us/YUNJ <-- anyone able to help out with a modest build problem? |
| 18:59.52 | jebba | RST38h: yes, if you read Farsi, you can find Iran! |
| 19:00.18 | tigert | hmm |
| 19:00.34 | tigert | would be nice if ssh-agent was run in the tablet |
| 19:00.42 | tigert | I wonder how well it behaves wrt battery |
| 19:00.47 | timeless | tigert: eh |
| 19:01.05 | timeless | agent should be roughly free |
| 19:01.12 | jebba | literally. Iran isn't written "Iran", it is written in an arabic script (!) |
| 19:01.59 | jebba | same with afghanistan, etc. (some are written in both, like Libya, Iraq just with Latin script). Interesting. |
| 19:02.00 | timeless | this is maemo mapper or ovi maps? |
| 19:02.11 | jebba | maemo mapper. I've ditched OVI now :) |
| 19:02.33 | timeless | maemo mapper isnh't really maps |
| 19:02.42 | timeless | it's a generic client |
| 19:02.58 | tigert | maemo mapper can display pretty much any map |
| 19:03.00 | timeless | you might be using google maps or openstreet or |
| 19:03.31 | *** join/#maemo mfinkle (n=mfinkle@67.135.24.102) |
| 19:03.35 | jebba | yes, i suppose is due to how openstreet is doing it. It is actually pretty cool this way, but still a bit difficult. I wonder how good it would be for travelling in Tokyo, for example. |
| 19:03.41 | jebba | goes to check |
| 19:04.11 | Arkenoi | seems that google is not likely to support n900 by their own effort, at least we haven't hear anything about it |
| 19:04.27 | luke-jr | why would they? |
| 19:04.29 | Arkenoi | misses gmail much and calendar sync |
| 19:04.39 | luke-jr | Arkenoi: your fault for using broken webapps |
| 19:04.41 | RST38h | ? |
| 19:04.41 | Arkenoi | they do for a variety of phones |
| 19:04.50 | luke-jr | Arkenoi: phones that pay them royalties... |
| 19:04.53 | RST38h | try macuco? |
| 19:04.58 | *** join/#maemo Paltti (i=54f9801d@gateway/web/freenode/x-ggtymszabuerqyrq) |
| 19:05.38 | Arkenoi | luke-jr, does ms pay? nokia for s60 models? |
| 19:05.41 | tigert | Arkenoi: eh |
| 19:05.47 | tigert | Arkenoi: use the google activesync? |
| 19:05.47 | RST38h | how does a phone pay someone royalty? |
| 19:05.54 | luke-jr | Arkenoi: likely? |
| 19:05.57 | tigert | it syncs my googlecalendar fine |
| 19:06.00 | *** join/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host81-155-227-189.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:06.07 | tigert | mail has problems (some exchange protocol issue maybe) |
| 19:06.09 | luke-jr | Arkenoi: when did MS make a phone? |
| 19:06.11 | tigert | but that works via imap |
| 19:06.20 | luke-jr | RST38h: the company that made it, obviously |
| 19:06.20 | ShadowJK | weren't they going to make a round one |
| 19:06.28 | jebba | ah tokyo (with openstreetmaps) is in japanese and latin script |
| 19:06.33 | *** part/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host81-155-227-189.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:06.33 | RST38h | luke |
| 19:06.38 | RST38h | : prooflink? |
| 19:06.40 | Arkenoi | tigert, does not really work :-( |
| 19:06.45 | tigert | Arkenoi: it doesnt? |
| 19:06.59 | luke-jr | RST38h: if Google doesn't get royalties, why do they sue people for 'pirating' their apps? |
| 19:07.00 | Arkenoi | RST38h, and no google maps anyways |
| 19:07.12 | luke-jr | or threaten to, anyhow |
| 19:07.29 | RST38h | no prooflink, luke? |
| 19:07.41 | Arkenoi | tigert, does not with mine, and it is not officially supported |
| 19:07.46 | luke-jr | RST38h: you can search just as well as I can |
| 19:07.56 | RST38h | no prooflink, ok. |
| 19:08.03 | tigert | Arkenoi: ok |
| 19:08.06 | ruskie | luke-jr, because those people don't respect terms of service |
| 19:08.41 | Arkenoi | anything that can talk to google maps api? to share location? |
| 19:08.55 | *** join/#maemo Colinde (n=din_hest@0x4dd57065.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 19:09.01 | RST38h | Arkenoi: Ok, let us go over things |
| 19:09.05 | Colinde | Hi! |
| 19:09.10 | Stskeeps | hi Colinde |
| 19:09.34 | RST38h | Arkenoi: For GMail you can either use Macuco, or Modest over IMAP, or Google's mobile web interface |
| 19:09.39 | luke-jr | Arkenoi: Google can't write proper code for beans; don't expect their stuff to work outside their few "supported" environments |
| 19:09.48 | RST38h | Arkenoi: Both Macuco and web interface will look pretty much like that app |
| 19:09.56 | Arkenoi | RST38h, modest over imap does not really push |
| 19:09.56 | Paltti | lo, i'm trying to flash my bricked n900 with windows xp, after giving the command "flasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R" cmd prompt only says "RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM: %m" - what I do wrong? |
| 19:10.10 | RST38h | Arkenoi: Neither does that Google app on S60 |
| 19:10.15 | RST38h | Not for me anyway |
| 19:10.26 | Stskeeps | Paltti: that looks a bit weird.. |
| 19:10.31 | RST38h | Arkenoi: Now, for maps, use Maemo Mapper |
| 19:10.46 | RST38h | Arkenoi: Note that it fetches Googgle maps via a URL set in the settings |
| 19:11.03 | RST38h | Arkenoi: If Google changes that URL, you have to find and use the new one |
| 19:11.13 | Arkenoi | RST38h, maemo mapper does not support latitude and way slower than ovi maps, so i do not see any advantages :-( |
| 19:11.24 | kynky | thought one of reasons google sued ppl for using gmaps data was because of the licensing agreement google had with its satelite imagining provider |
| 19:11.28 | RST38h | Otherwise, use OpenStreetMap or MS Virtual Earth or yahoo Maps (all three available from MaemoMapper) |
| 19:11.35 | Arkenoi | i do not really need map from google |
| 19:11.44 | Arkenoi | i want to share location with google map |
| 19:11.45 | timeless | a vaguely responsive maintainer and much better map data |
| 19:11.54 | RST38h | Arkenoi: No, it does not support latitude (neither does ovi maps afaik) but it is not slower than Ovi Maps |
| 19:11.56 | Arkenoi | who provides the map itself is not relevant for me |
| 19:11.59 | *** join/#maemo GiantTalkingCow (n=MoaBird@adsl-76-211-235-184.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:12.14 | timeless | shrugs |
| 19:12.26 | Arkenoi | RST38h, i tried it, it was painful to navigate and slow :-( |
| 19:12.52 | RST38h | Arkenoi: Well, if you can program, why not write a script that will read your location and send it to Google via their web api? |
| 19:12.56 | Colinde | is AFK |
| 19:12.56 | timeless | when you're stuck in the capital of Ukraine and you map only shows 1 + 1/2 roads, you'll change your mind |
| 19:13.06 | kynky | and one of reasons i thought google supported s60 devices for google apps was because s60 is biggest mobile platform out there |
| 19:13.10 | Arkenoi | RST38h, thinking on it, is it documented? |
| 19:13.22 | Stskeeps | timeless: ovi or osm? |
| 19:13.25 | RST38h | Arkenoi: google search? |
| 19:13.27 | timeless | ovi |
| 19:13.39 | timeless | try the web version |
| 19:13.43 | timeless | the data is common |
| 19:13.48 | RST38h | Why would ANYONE want to see roads in Kiev? |
| 19:14.08 | sp3000 | two roads oughta be enough for anyone |
| 19:14.12 | RST38h | When all you need is a subway map and the location of the main intercity bus station? |
| 19:14.13 | timeless | rst38h: helpful if you want to get around... |
| 19:14.27 | suihkulokki | RST38h: do you know if latitude is based on gtalk + the jabber location standard or if latitude is completly separate? |
| 19:14.33 | timeless | rst: good luck getting that from this map |
| 19:14.44 | RST38h | suihkulokki: No idea, but I will check in a moment |
| 19:15.25 | RST38h | never ever needed a map in Kiev. You get off the subway at the center and walk around. |
| 19:15.31 | timeless | Ovi Maps is not available on Maemo mobile device |
| 19:15.31 | timeless | To use Ovi Maps on your Maemo device, please use the version that is installed on your phone. |
| 19:15.37 | timeless | sighs |
| 19:15.38 | Arkenoi | if it was based on jabber location standard, we'd get correct position when connecting to gtalk with builtin IM |
| 19:15.46 | timeless | and error message written by a finn |
| 19:15.53 | Stskeeps | wonders who designed ovi maps and who to beat |
| 19:15.54 | timeless | sui: your people suck |
| 19:16.13 | timeless | stskeeps: gate5 berlin, as i explained @summit |
| 19:16.17 | suihkulokki | timeless: doubt so, the finnish translation of that error message is horrible too :P |
| 19:16.20 | sp3000 | timeless, it's worse in finnish :) |
| 19:16.26 | kynky | thought ovi maps 3.0 was supposed to be ok |
| 19:16.35 | RST38h | Interesting: http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google+Mobile/thread?tid=0b261499d30e1165&hl=en |
| 19:16.38 | RST38h | So, no official API |
| 19:16.39 | timeless | You can find it in the applications menu. |
| 19:16.41 | timeless | Ovi Maps for Web isn't accessible from your Maemo device browser. |
| 19:16.42 | sp3000 | something like, ovi maps is not available for the browser maemo mobile device |
| 19:17.49 | timeless | sp3000: did they do the background image on this error page properly? :) |
| 19:17.49 | jani | what ovi service is actually accessible and usuable from/for maemo ? |
| 19:18.00 | timeless | jani: files? |
| 19:18.07 | kynky | ovi maps 1.0 for n900 |
| 19:18.19 | jani | uu! |
| 19:18.23 | timeless | sp3000: did you say files worked? |
| 19:18.30 | jani | ;) |
| 19:18.35 | sp3000 | dunno |
| 19:19.06 | sp3000 | we do link to it :) |
| 19:19.06 | Gadgetoid | hmm battery tending toward the low end after a day of tinkering |
| 19:19.07 | RST38h | suihkulokki, Arkenoi: http://code.google.com/apis/gears/geolocation_network_protocol.html |
| 19:19.10 | RST38h | Here you go |
| 19:19.11 | timeless | we link to store.ovi.miobi |
| 19:19.12 | Stskeeps | jani: i'm personally waiting for community to set up their own maemo.org Maps, Store |
| 19:19.15 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 19:19.16 | jani | well, i would have cared only for contacts .. got 200 numbers in ovi contacts and not really looking forward to write them manually back to the device |
| 19:19.41 | jani | stskeeps: maybe call it a windows ? =)) |
| 19:19.46 | RST38h | Stskeeps: If I set up a store, will you pay me 30% to resell your app? :) |
| 19:20.21 | Stskeeps | RST38h: if you handled credit card processing for micropayments, maybe |
| 19:21.01 | RST38h | Stskeeps: No, just normal payments |
| 19:21.42 | RST38h | Stskeeps: Unless you want to pay cc company $1 for each micropayment of course |
| 19:22.48 | jebba | omg, appears maemo-optify-buildpackage works :) |
| 19:23.07 | killefiz | timeless: I found an iphone app that exported all my contacts as one vcf and the n900 contacts app was then able to import it in one go -> Problem solved, thanks |