IRC log for #maemo on 20091122

`00:00.02`	`timeless_mbp`	`sp3000: that's impressive`
`00:00.04`	`timeless_mbp`	`3points`
`00:00.14`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Nokia sure loves Flash.`
`00:00.30`	`*** join/#maemo rrr__ (i=rrr@hd5e2608c.gavlegardarna.gavle.to)`
`00:00.35`	`timeless_mbp`	`wonders if they actually spell the store name "Cuidad [sic] de MÃ©xico"`
`00:00.46`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Nice`
`00:00.58`	`timeless_mbp`	`credit to sp3000`
`00:01.41`	`timeless_mbp`	`consistency @nokia is um...`
`00:01.48`	`timeless_mbp`	`incredibly bad when it comes to es-MX`
`00:02.01`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Incredibly bad when it comes to anything.`
`00:02.18`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Except, perhaps, for being inconsistent.`
`00:02.24`	`*** join/#maemo Xisdibik (n=Xisdibik@24.5.197.175)`
`00:04.20`	`timeless_mbp`	`nice`
`00:04.26`	`timeless_mbp`	`the spanish video has random English text`
`00:04.31`	`*** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk)`
`00:05.41`	`timeless_mbp`	`btw, how does nokia spell 'en es ee arr eye ee ess' ?`
`00:07.21`	`lcuk`	`timeless, they spell it the same, with extra spaces occasionally dont they`
`00:07.37`	`lcuk`	`that hurt my head more than the stuff ive been doin today`
`00:07.51`	`lcuk`	`won tho`
`00:07.57`	`timeless_mbp`	`Nseries or nseries?`
`00:08.21`	`*** join/#maemo unixSnob (n=unixSnob@starfury.spearlink.com)`
`00:08.29`	`lcuk`	`ahhh case sensitive`
`00:08.59`	`timeless_mbp`	`wow, the nokia store has n800s and n810s`
`00:09.18`	`lcuk`	`id tell you to go look on the site`
`00:09.25`	`lcuk`	`but you will find all variations no doubt lol`
`00:09.34`	`lcuk`	`o_O really?`
`00:09.40`	`lcuk`	`800s still?`
`00:10.36`	`timeless_mbp`	`dunno`
`00:10.44`	`timeless_mbp`	`presumably they never update their cr*p`
`00:13.09`	`luke-jr`	`what price?`
`00:13.24`	`timeless_mbp`	`sorry, never been south of the border`
`00:13.39`	`timeless_mbp`	`well, i've been to http://www.thesouthoftheborder.com/`
`00:15.23`	`*** join/#maemo tad_ (n=chatzill@nc-65-41-177-62.dyn.embarqhsd.net)`
`00:17.17`	`*** join/#maemo sgbirch (n=user@212.159.52.225)`
`00:18.48`	`tad_`	`tis quiet`
`00:20.10`	`sgbirch`	`Everyone is asleep dreaming of n900`
`00:20.24`	`Xisdibik`	`sgbirch: wrong, im day dreaming of mine`
`00:20.39`	`Macer`	`I'M IN CHICAGO`
`00:20.49`	`Macer`	`woop! let me go downtown and see if they have one :D`
`00:21.03`	`Xisdibik`	`Macer: how do you like living in the city with the highest homicide rate in the US? ;)`
`00:21.18`	`Macer`	`really? we made the highest huh?`
`00:21.25`	`Macer`	`usually it is a contest with NYC`
`00:21.26`	`Macer`	`haha`
`00:21.34`	`Xisdibik`	`i think so`
`00:21.35`	`Macer`	`i know we have the highest sales tax`
`00:21.40`	`tad_`	`n900`
`00:21.40`	`Macer`	`Xisdibik: year isn't over yet ;)`
`00:21.41`	`Xisdibik`	`how high is it there?`
`00:21.44`	`tad_`	`id like one`
`00:21.50`	`Macer`	`usually we are neck and neck with NYC`
`00:21.57`	`Macer`	`ironically enough`
`00:22.04`	`Macer`	`people here think it is something to be proud of haha`
`00:22.06`	`Xisdibik`	`how high is the sales tax there?`
`00:22.12`	`Macer`	`10.25%`
`00:22.20`	`Xisdibik`	`damn lol`
`00:22.24`	`Xisdibik`	`yea its like 9.75% here`
`00:22.28`	`Macer`	`Xisdibik: yeah... it's rough ;)`
`00:22.31`	`Macer`	`highest in the US`
`00:22.47`	`Xisdibik`	`we compete with NYC for most expensive housing market though`
`00:22.48`	`Xisdibik`	`:D`
`00:22.51`	`*** join/#maemo SmilybOrg (i=Smily@195.250.212.30)`
`00:23.03`	`Macer`	`we don't.... nyc is outrageous.. like CA market`
`00:23.04`	`Xisdibik`	`we being the area i am`
`00:23.10`	`Xisdibik`	`lives in CA`
`00:23.17`	`Macer`	`i never understood that either. the houses in CA are of such disgusting quality`
`00:23.22`	`Macer`	`like... lego building`
`00:23.27`	`Xisdibik`	`Macer: depends where you go`
`00:23.30`	`Xisdibik`	`my moms house is really nice`
`00:23.32`	`Macer`	`i was in SD`
`00:23.35`	`Xisdibik`	`as is my grandmothers`
`00:23.38`	`Xisdibik`	`well thats Socal :P`
`00:23.39`	`Macer`	`and they had that lego crap`
`00:23.41`	`Macer`	`:)`
`00:23.45`	`Xisdibik`	`the real housing market expenses are in SF bay area`
`00:23.48`	`Macer`	`where they could put a building together in 1 week`
`00:24.06`	`Macer`	`with fabricated bricks`
`00:24.08`	`sgbirch`	`Try 17.5% ... uk`
`00:24.11`	`Macer`	`heh`
`00:24.22`	`Macer`	`sgbirch: yeah.. but you have something to show for your taxes`
`00:24.33`	`Macer`	`we have debt and tanks`
`00:24.42`	`Xisdibik`	`sgbirch: that seems lower than it used to be`
`00:24.42`	`sgbirch`	`And 50% marginable income tax`
`00:24.50`	`Macer`	`ouch`
`00:24.55`	`Xisdibik`	`wasnt it like 21%+ a while ago?`
`00:24.58`	`Macer`	`sgbirch: streets paved in gold? :)`
`00:25.06`	`Xisdibik`	`Macer: no, bricks`
`00:25.14`	`Macer`	`Xisdibik: seriously?`
`00:25.20`	`Macer`	`we used to have brick streets`
`00:25.20`	`Xisdibik`	`some parts of UK yea`
`00:25.20`	`Xisdibik`	`;)`
`00:25.24`	`Macer`	`shame we don't anymore`
`00:26.05`	`sgbirch`	`Brits loves paying tax`
`00:26.23`	`sp3000`	`...gold bricks`
`00:27.39`	`javispedro`	`oh, someone reused my argument in the java thread.`
`00:27.59`	`Xisdibik`	`we have a brick road that winds left and right`
`00:28.02`	`Xisdibik`	`Lombard Street`
`00:28.32`	`Xisdibik`	`http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Sanfran_61_bg_032605.jpg`
`00:29.11`	`*** join/#maemo Anpr (n=Anpr@cpc1-cmbg1-0-0-cust173.cmbg.cable.ntl.com)`
`00:29.25`	`Anpr`	`hello guys`
`00:29.34`	`Xisdibik`	`hello Anpr`
`00:29.44`	`microlith`	`Xisdibik: considering some of the other streets, I wonder why they went through the difficulty of doing that`
`00:29.47`	`Anpr`	`how are u ? any news ?`
`00:30.10`	`Xisdibik`	`microlith: not sure actualy reads the wiki`
`00:31.35`	`Xisdibik`	`The switchbacks design, first suggested by property owner Carl Henry and instituted in 1922, was born out of necessity in order to reduce the hill's natural 27% grade, which was too steep for most vehicles to climb.`
`00:31.37`	`*** join/#maemo RobertH[AU] (n=robert@203-206-121-205.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`00:31.44`	`microlith`	`ahh`
`00:32.12`	`microlith`	`others might think "maybe a road shouldn't go here"`
`00:32.25`	`Xisdibik`	`Americans are stubborn :)`
`00:32.30`	`microlith`	`no joke`
`00:32.41`	`microlith`	`although I imagine it's fun to go down :)`
`00:32.49`	`Xisdibik`	`it is`
`00:33.03`	`Xisdibik`	`my friend went down it on something i totally forgot what its called`
`00:33.27`	`Xisdibik`	`its like putting scateboard wheels on tiny little platforms`
`00:33.32`	`Xisdibik`	`and going down on two of them, one for each foot`
`00:34.31`	`microlith`	`oh, sorta like doing a slalom, only without snow`
`00:34.44`	`Xisdibik`	`mmm`
`00:34.48`	`Xisdibik`	`not really`
`00:34.50`	`Xisdibik`	`let me try to find it`
`00:35.20`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Rollerskating? :P`
`00:35.26`	`lcuk`	`timeless, mxr cross reference, im just wanting to search for all instances of a function in use.`
`00:35.29`	`Xisdibik`	`no, they are not attached to your feet`
`00:35.33`	`lcuk`	`within a set of files`
`00:35.42`	`Xisdibik`	`its like two little skateboards with one wheel each`
`00:35.45`	`timeless_mbp`	`lcuk: sure`
`00:35.49`	`lcuk`	`http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle-20091116/search`
`00:35.52`	`lcuk`	`i got that far`
`00:35.54`	`Chani`	`o.0`
`00:36.00`	`lcuk`	`the "in files matching" area`
`00:36.03`	`timeless_mbp`	`if you want an identifier search, you're using the wrong entrypoint`
`00:36.11`	`lcuk`	`is it simply gary for everything with gary in`
`00:36.15`	`timeless_mbp`	`search is vaguely plain text`
`00:36.16`	`lcuk`	`filename wise`
`00:36.27`	`timeless_mbp`	`it's a regexp against the file path`
`00:36.47`	`timeless_mbp`	`but again, you have the wrong entrypoint assuming you can spell the function name correctly`
`00:36.49`	`lcuk`	`cool, so complete control when searching`
`00:36.54`	`timeless_mbp`	`pretty much`
`00:37.10`	`timeless_mbp`	`oh, for fremantle you almost certainly want to use a file limited search`
`00:37.19`	`timeless_mbp`	`as i think the db might be too large for search to work otherwise`
`00:37.21`	`lcuk`	`yeah i know`
`00:37.24`	`timeless_mbp`	`not certain but...`
`00:37.28`	`lcuk`	`i know which area im looking`
`00:37.29`	`timeless_mbp`	`for ident search, that's not required`
`00:37.42`	`lcuk`	`i just wanted to see if it matched with the sort of results i used to have in windows`
`00:37.48`	`lcuk`	`(i had my own file search doofer)`
`00:38.14`	`lcuk`	`im not interested in references outside a very specific area`
`00:38.20`	`javispedro`	`ali1234: it's not because it's using ogles instead of ogl.`
`00:38.20`	`lcuk`	`and i know there will be loads`
`00:38.27`	`javispedro`	`ali1234: you're hitting a clutter bug.`
`00:38.33`	`timeless_mbp`	`in general you should probably just use /fremantle/ instead of picking a specific version`
`00:38.42`	`timeless_mbp`	`they're unlikely to change particularly often`
`00:38.48`	`*** join/#maemo ArSa_ (n=ArSa@173-25-26-173.client.mchsi.com)`
`00:38.50`	`ali1234`	`javispedro: the blue/orange thing?`
`00:39.02`	`lcuk`	`i have done with every other time, but you highlight the different versions on the frontpage`
`00:39.05`	`javispedro`	`ali1234: yes`
`00:39.05`	`ali1234`	`the GL/GLES thing causes bezier surfaces not to work`
`00:39.06`	`lcuk`	`i tohught there might be a reason`
`00:39.21`	`ali1234`	`hence missing features`
`00:39.22`	`timeless_mbp`	`not really, just being silly i suppose`
`00:39.28`	`*** join/#maemo GuySoft (n=guysoft@93-173-161-80.bb.netvision.net.il)`
`00:39.34`	`javispedro`	`ali1234: missing features in the ogre ogles backend`
`00:39.35`	`javispedro`	`?`
`00:39.40`	`lcuk`	`nahh making it clear which is there`
`00:39.43`	`ali1234`	`probably yes`
`00:39.49`	`timeless_mbp`	`nods`
`00:40.01`	`ali1234`	`if you try to make a bezier patch, the call succeeds but when you try to instantiate it, it doesn't work`
`00:40.13`	`ali1234`	`probably just not implemented. normal meshes work fine`
`00:40.35`	`ali1234`	`it basically all works fine, just needs a little bit of polish, and packaging`
`00:41.52`	`*** join/#maemo RXrenesis8 (n=Adium@208.201.247.13)`
`00:45.28`	`*** join/#maemo zerojay (n=jay@blk-222-179-72.eastlink.ca)`
`00:47.35`	`javispedro`	`ali1234: the blue/orange stuff will work fine on device, or in SDK if you apply patch in bug #4870`
`00:47.36`	`povbot`	`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4870 Red & blue color channels swapped sometimes in SDK`
`00:47.55`	`ali1234`	`i'm running it on the device`
`00:48.17`	`javispedro`	`oh, then that's interesting.`
`00:48.44`	`lcuk`	`ali1234, did you "fix" your code in the sdk at some point`
`00:48.45`	`ali1234`	`i didn't know the sdk even had gles emulation`
`00:48.47`	`javispedro`	`then forget about everything I said :)`
`00:48.58`	`javispedro`	`it does.`
`00:49.05`	`javispedro`	`only in x86 target.`
`00:49.06`	`ali1234`	`lcuk: what do you mean?`
`00:49.19`	`lcuk`	`or could someone else - ie a patch was made in userland code to fix the apparant bug in the sdk`
`00:49.31`	`ali1234`	`the x libs thing?`
`00:49.33`	`javispedro`	`doubt it.`
`00:49.38`	`ali1234`	`i don't know what is causingit`
`00:50.21`	`ali1234`	`i just skipped compiling all the things that need X, namely the tools and the samples. you don't need them`
`00:50.23`	`*** join/#maemo myosound (n=myosound@173.13.200.50)`
`00:50.59`	`ali1234`	`it could be worked around in the cmake rules probably, but i don't know how cmake decides what libraries to link or add extra ones to it`
`00:51.29`	`*** join/#maemo philipl (i=1000@c-98-234-156-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`00:52.29`	`lcuk`	`in the last 24h ive gone from 1 screen to 2, and i find now i have 2, i could really do with 4 or more`
`00:54.19`	`*** join/#maemo anprrr (n=Anpr@cpc1-cmbg1-0-0-cust173.cmbg.cable.ntl.com)`
`00:54.23`	`*** join/#maemo carloscesa (n=carlos@189.2.128.130)`
`00:56.21`	`javispedro`	`lcuk: how true ... :P`
`00:56.29`	`javispedro`	`sometimes I wish I've stayed with just 1.`
`00:56.36`	`lcuk`	`i was happy`
`00:56.45`	`lcuk`	`its actually linux thats more optimized for more`
`00:56.52`	`CoreFusion-`	`damn that Borderlands has me hooked`
`00:56.53`	`lcuk`	`or unoptimized`
`00:58.30`	`RXrenesis8`	`don't worry, play it for a week and you'll be at level 50 with two playthroughs done and have nothing left to do.`
`00:58.50`	`*** join/#maemo anprrrrrrr (n=Anpr@cpc1-cmbg1-0-0-cust173.cmbg.cable.ntl.com)`
`01:05.50`	`*** join/#maemo digitalstimulus (n=digitals@cpe-071-077-144-145.nc.res.rr.com)`
`01:10.00`	`lcuk`	`has neckache`
`01:10.26`	`lcuk`	`im not used to looking around so much when using computer, im sure im gonna have a suntan in the morning too`
`01:11.12`	`*** join/#maemo xnt14 (n=xnt14@pool-71-251-0-112.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)`
`01:11.35`	`microlith`	`how big are the monitors?`
`01:11.49`	`Macer`	`It may seem impossible that two galaxies on opposite sides can be separated by 93 billion light years after only 13 billion years, since special relativity states that matter cannot be accelerated to exceed the speed of light in a localized region of space-time. However, according to general relativity, space can expand with no intrinsic limit on its rate; thus, two galaxies can separate more quickly than the speed of light if the space between them grows.`
`01:12.15`	`*** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (n=jr@200.194.116.85.dsl.manitu.net)`
`01:12.19`	`javispedro`	`the monitors are galaxy sized?`
`01:12.22`	`Macer`	`ah yes. the expansion paradox`
`01:12.40`	`Macer`	`einstein fails us again :)`
`01:12.52`	`*** join/#maemo Fionn_ (n=Fionn@83-71-111-204-dynamic.b-ras1.lmk.limerick.eircom.net)`
`01:13.53`	`Macer`	`the universe can expand at ftl speeds but matter within it cannot travel faster than light`
`01:13.56`	`Macer`	`lies`
`01:13.57`	`Macer`	`heh`
`01:15.44`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lcuk, I'm at 4 at the moment.`
`01:15.49`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lcuk, was at 6 for a little while`
`01:15.53`	`GeneralAntilles`	`but 4 works pretty well.`
`01:15.59`	`w00t_`	`6 monitors?`
`01:16.30`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Yeah, 2x 23.5", 2x 20", 2x 19" (widescreen).`
`01:16.39`	`w00t_`	`yeek.`
`01:16.59`	`w00t_`	`most I've had was two, I'd like three`
`01:17.16`	`w00t_`	`but that isn't likely for a while given I mostly work on laptops nowdays`
`01:18.59`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Laptops suck.`
`01:19.07`	`RXrenesis8`	`pfft`
`01:19.12`	`GeneralAntilles`	`4 is ideal at this resolution, I think.`
`01:19.22`	`GeneralAntilles`	`GTFO with your crappy MacBook Pro.`
`01:19.29`	`RXrenesis8`	`pfffffft`
`01:19.33`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/3981783507/`
`01:19.46`	`RXrenesis8`	`I'd like to see you fit your mac pro in a carryon bag`
`01:19.46`	`GeneralAntilles`	`You don't have too many far-flung outliers and there's enough space to put stuff.`
`01:20.30`	`GeneralAntilles`	`RXrenesis8, Forza 3 instead?`
`01:21.33`	`*** part/#maemo edgar2 (n=edgar2@fatmama.karen.abo.fi)`
`01:21.47`	`GeneralAntilles`	`RXrenesis8, that's what I have my N900 and (sometimes) my Mini 9 for.`
`01:33.16`	`w00t_`	`GeneralAntilles: depends, mine is ok really`
`01:33.52`	`w00t_`	`it suits me, it's not for everyone ;p`
`01:34.00`	`GeneralAntilles`	`w00t_, I've got a Mac Pro with a billion and one hard drives, 2 graphics cards, 8GB of RAM, and 8 cores. :P`
`01:34.29`	`w00t_`	`sure`
`01:34.33`	`w00t_`	`I don't need that :p`
`01:34.36`	`lpotter`	`thats not enough ram`
`01:34.51`	`w00t_`	`and for when I do, I have a desktop`
`01:34.58`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lpotter, agreed, but I have to wait for more money. :D`
`01:35.00`	`w00t_`	`but I use that about once per 3 months`
`01:36.06`	`timeless_mbp`	`GeneralAntilles: http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/photos/`
`01:36.10`	`lpotter`	`how you going to run scratchbox on that?`
`01:38.39`	`*** join/#maemo Xisdibik (n=Xisdibik@c-24-5-197-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`01:38.58`	`*** join/#maemo rrr__ (i=rrr@213.226.96.140)`
`01:44.05`	`GeneralAntilles`	`timeless_mbp, those pictures are all sideways.`
`01:44.26`	`timeless_mbp`	`yeah... dunno why`
`01:45.00`	`timeless_mbp`	`seems like the camera cheats`
`01:45.04`	`timeless_mbp`	`and relies on EXIF`
`01:45.08`	`timeless_mbp`	`which the browser doesn't know to use`
`01:45.35`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Anyway, why are these relevant?`
`01:46.45`	`timeless_mbp`	`shrugs`
`01:46.52`	`timeless_mbp`	`that's the nokia store in HEL`
`01:47.07`	`timeless_mbp`	`i'll take photos of what it looks like now at some point (maybe)`
`01:47.16`	`timeless_mbp`	`there's actually an n900 in one of the windows`
`01:51.05`	`*** join/#maemo bcat (n=sj@mgdb-4db8d9ba.pool.mediaWays.net)`
`01:56.27`	`*** join/#maemo hardaker (n=hardaker@mail.hardakers.net)`
`01:56.28`	`GeneralAntilles`	`timeless_mbp, I know the N900's fat, but I believe that's actually a giant N97. g`
`01:57.11`	`*** join/#maemo zap_ (n=zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`01:57.11`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N810 (n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`01:59.54`	`luke-jr`	`wtf?`
`02:03.01`	`Xisdibik`	`GeneralAntilles: how dare you talk about the n900 like that`
`02:03.04`	`Xisdibik`	`she is NOT fat!`
`02:06.14`	`RXrenesis8`	`I want to ride my bicycle`
`02:07.17`	`Shapeshifter`	`Who's this "Eldar"?`
`02:09.32`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Shapeshifter, some Russian blogger.`
`02:14.31`	`microlith`	`his name confused me at first`
`02:14.44`	`microlith`	`(I had warhammer 40k on the brain at the time)`
`02:15.34`	`*** join/#maemo tadthebuilder (n=chatzill@nc-65-41-177-62.dyn.embarqhsd.net)`
`02:16.42`	`tadthebuilder`	`so are most people satisfied with their n900's?`
`02:17.21`	`lpotter`	`I might be if I had one`
`02:17.36`	`auenf`	`i would be if nokia would consider bringing it out here`
`02:17.40`	`*** join/#maemo DeadDodo (n=dodobird@76.192.49.182)`
`02:17.58`	`tadthebuilder`	`heh`
`02:18.37`	`microlith`	`fuck`
`02:18.44`	`tadthebuilder`	`i cant get one unless the price drops alot myself`
`02:18.46`	`microlith`	`chase denied my transaction with nokia`
`02:19.06`	`microlith`	`great, time to call them`
`02:19.53`	`Robot101`	`tadthebuilder: seen them on amazon.com? they're <$500 if you get the $50 rebate`
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`02:20.23`	`microlith`	`I wish you didn't have to already have a nokia phone to be able to track your order progress online`
`02:20.43`	`tadthebuilder`	`robot, waiting on a used oen`
`02:20.45`	`tadthebuilder`	`one*`
`02:20.57`	`tadthebuilder`	`cannot afford 500 dollars on a phone right now...`
`02:21.13`	`microlith`	`man what the hell is the point of having a credit card if their default behavior is to deny charges over a (rather) low amount`
`02:21.43`	`DeadDodo`	`microlight: To build up a credit rating if you should need one later.`
`02:23.06`	`SpeedEvil`	`tadthebuilder: If you're overweight, try the n900 diet plan. Eat half the food to compensate for buying the n900.`
`02:23.18`	`tadthebuilder`	`welll`
`02:23.23`	`tadthebuilder`	`id probably die`
`02:23.52`	`SpeedEvil`	`(though /me is only on 2/3, not 1/2)`
`02:24.16`	`microlith`	`fucking credit card`
`02:24.21`	`SpeedEvil`	`:/`
`02:24.50`	`tadthebuilder`	`ill just stick with my n800 till they show up used`
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`02:25.41`	`luke-jr`	`I'll just stick with my N810 until someone makes a decent handheld >.>`
`02:25.53`	`DeadDodo`	`No one will ever make a decent handheld.`
`02:26.04`	`luke-jr`	`DeadDodo: Zaurus SL-C760 was for its time`
`02:26.29`	`javispedro`	`DeadDodo: quite appropiate name.`
`02:26.38`	`DeadDodo`	`Didn't that have a tiny keyboard, or am I think of a different model?`
`02:26.46`	`javispedro`	`luke-jr: decent handhelds are gone the way of the dodo.`
`02:26.54`	`javispedro`	`i learned that 4 years ago.`
`02:26.57`	`javispedro`	`this is the age of the iphone.`
`02:27.04`	`DeadDodo`	`Psion used to make some very nice handhelds 10 years ago.`
`02:27.06`	`microlith`	`oh goddamnit`
`02:27.12`	`microlith`	`they've been blocking everything for the past week`
`02:27.18`	`luke-jr`	`javispedro: :(`
`02:27.24`	`luke-jr`	`DeadDodo: it had a VERY NICE keyboard`
`02:27.38`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Ah, welcome back, tadthebuilder. :)`
`02:27.45`	`DeadDodo`	`Then I've mistaken it for another model. Was this one of those clamshell types?`
`02:27.46`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Post-congratulations. :)`
`02:27.50`	`tadthebuilder`	`haha`
`02:27.52`	`tadthebuilder`	`thanks`
`02:27.59`	`luke-jr`	`DeadDodo: yes`
`02:28.04`	`tadthebuilder`	`i was a little slow on the internets getting up`
`02:28.34`	`tadthebuilder`	`how is everything going generalantilles`
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`02:30.44`	`tadthebuilder`	`lcuk you here?`
`02:31.18`	`lcuk`	`ish`
`02:31.30`	`tadthebuilder`	`how are you doing man?`
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`02:32.21`	`lcuk`	`untangles keyboard`
`02:32.32`	`lcuk`	`im doing great i think! how are you`
`02:32.39`	`tadthebuilder`	`doing well`
`02:32.46`	`lcuk`	`nods`
`02:32.49`	`tadthebuilder`	`happily married`
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`02:33.09`	`tadthebuilder`	`you still looking for a job?`
`02:33.13`	`lcuk`	`heh so now no way to sneak an n900 on the credit card lol`
`02:33.30`	`lcuk`	`no tadthebuilder :) i am now gainfully employed (though still finding my feet)`
`02:33.42`	`tadthebuilder`	`glad to hear it`
`02:33.46`	`tadthebuilder`	`yeah no way for a n900`
`02:33.53`	`tadthebuilder`	`no budget either...:)`
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`02:33.55`	`tadthebuilder`	`its all good`
`02:33.58`	`tadthebuilder`	`rather have a wife than an n900`
`02:34.01`	`tadthebuilder`	`n800 still works`
`02:34.09`	`lcuk`	`i think the suggestion earlier by SpeedEvil was cool`
`02:34.21`	`tadthebuilder`	`heh`
`02:34.28`	`tadthebuilder`	`well I have no weight to lose`
`02:34.32`	`lcuk`	`holy crap it connected`
`02:34.44`	`tadthebuilder`	`im 6 3 and I weight about 140`
`02:34.56`	`tadthebuilder`	`(I should probably convert that...)`
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`02:35.12`	`lcuk`	`nahhh`
`02:35.19`	`lcuk`	`and its gone again`
`02:35.43`	`lcuk`	`wireless network is bein a sod`
`02:36.16`	`tadthebuilder`	`any updates on liqbase since my last being on?`
`02:36.26`	`lcuk`	`tadthebuilder, there is a maemo long weekend event happening in Barcelona start of next month.`
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`02:36.59`	`lcuk`	`some of Nokias top UX team are coming over and discussing with some developers and innovators`
`02:37.07`	`lcuk`	`and liqbase calendar is on the agenda :)`
`02:37.07`	`GeneralAntilles`	`yawns.`
`02:37.13`	`tadthebuilder`	`well thats cool`
`02:37.16`	`tadthebuilder`	`and exciting for you`
`02:37.19`	`GeneralAntilles`	`tadthebuilder, no more cold hotdogs? ;)`
`02:37.20`	`lcuk`	`indeed`
`02:37.21`	`tadthebuilder`	`where do you work no`
`02:37.25`	`tadthebuilder`	`haha exactly`
`02:37.48`	`lcuk`	`i work with collabora, based in cambridge`
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`02:38.18`	`tadthebuilder`	`i like the ninja`
`02:38.27`	`lcuk`	`heh`
`02:38.49`	`tadthebuilder`	`yeah so I googled it`
`02:38.56`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Big Maemo contractor.`
`02:39.04`	`lcuk`	`is slowly getting over hurdles`
`02:39.04`	`tadthebuilder`	`ah okay`
`02:39.13`	`lcuk`	`i seem to find every single pothole along the way :D`
`02:40.59`	`tadthebuilder`	`makes for a fun ride though, as long as your neck is tough`
`02:41.14`	`lcuk`	`heh just moaning tonight about neck ache`
`02:41.26`	`lcuk`	`ive gone from 1 monitor to 2`
`02:41.27`	`Robot101`	`o/`
`02:41.29`	`lcuk`	`but now i need more`
`02:41.36`	`tadthebuilder`	`add a third`
`02:41.36`	`Robot101`	`evening lcuk`
`02:41.43`	`lcuk`	`hey Robot101 \o`
`02:41.50`	`Robot101`	`has a bit of neckache using his old desktop PC on the projector :)`
`02:41.55`	`lcuk`	`tadthebuilder, i need about 10 with linux`
`02:42.03`	`lcuk`	`i was happy with the one before lol`
`02:42.07`	`Robot101`	`put a new gfx card in so he can drive the projector at 1080P HD`
`02:42.08`	`tadthebuilder`	`hey the more monitors the better`
`02:42.14`	`Robot101`	`lcuk: you should have another on tues :)`
`02:42.19`	`lcuk`	`wicked :D`
`02:42.24`	`Robot101`	`GeneralAntilles: we're not that big, only around 50 of us :D`
`02:42.58`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Robot101, I should say, relative to some of the other contractors.`
`02:43.14`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lcuk, Samsung 2343b,x`
`02:43.17`	`GeneralAntilles`	`s/,/w/`
`02:43.28`	`GeneralAntilles`	`tried to type qwerty there for a second.`
`02:43.31`	`lcuk`	`Robot101, i think i have it running :)`
`02:44.05`	`lcuk`	`how big is the projectection?`
`02:44.15`	`tadthebuilder`	`is confused by infobot`
`02:44.21`	`lcuk`	`infobot rocks!`
`02:44.22`	`infobot`	`yes I do`
`02:44.26`	`lcuk`	`he got upgraded recently`
`02:44.34`	`lcuk`	`:D hahaha`
`02:44.46`	`tadthebuilder`	`where did he come from?`
`02:44.47`	`GeneralAntilles`	`tadthebuilder, I should've used s/,/w/2`
`02:44.50`	`tadthebuilder`	`or is it actually a person`
`02:44.51`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Been here forever.`
`02:44.54`	`crashanddie`	`it's probably a sign`
`02:44.55`	`GeneralAntilles`	`It's a person`
`02:44.58`	`crashanddie`	`PS3 just crashed`
`02:45.00`	`Robot101`	`lcuk: its widescreen, about 3m x 1.5m I guess`
`02:45.04`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Who's parsing all of our requests.`
`02:45.07`	`GeneralAntilles`	`He's very dedicated.`
`02:45.09`	`GeneralAntilles`	`~botsnack`
`02:45.09`	`infobot`	`GeneralAntilles: thanks`
`02:45.20`	`tadthebuilder`	`i am very confused`
`02:45.28`	`Robot101`	`maybe a bit less, I'm crap at estimating distances`
`02:45.39`	`GeneralAntilles`	`tadthebuilder, it's a bot. ;)`
`02:45.43`	`Robot101`	`pretty big though :)`
`02:45.44`	`GeneralAntilles`	`He stores factoids for us`
`02:45.45`	`tadthebuilder`	`thankyou`
`02:45.46`	`GeneralAntilles`	`~mer`
`02:45.47`	`infobot`	`hmm... mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer`
`02:45.51`	`GeneralAntilles`	`does substitutins`
`02:45.52`	`tadthebuilder`	`ah isee`
`02:45.54`	`Robot101`	`I don't have the right cable or I'd plug my N900 in :)`
`02:45.55`	`GeneralAntilles`	`s/ins/ions/`
`02:46.05`	`GeneralAntilles`	`and has stupid little features like`
`02:46.10`	`GeneralAntilles`	`~3d2`
`02:46.14`	`GeneralAntilles`	`~roll 3d2`
`02:46.15`	`infobot`	`ACTION stuffs 3d2 in a hamster ball and rolls it down a steep, snow-covered mountain`
`02:46.19`	`lcuk`	`my cats went mental chasing tux last time i had a projector here`
`02:46.26`	`tadthebuilder`	`i thought it was actually going to roll the dice`
`02:46.29`	`GeneralAntilles`	`smacks infobot`
`02:46.30`	`lcuk`	`they also like line drawing`
`02:46.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`~coin`
`02:46.31`	`infobot`	`extra, extra, read all about it, coin is flipped... heads or tails?`
`02:46.32`	`tadthebuilder`	`we could play d&d haha`
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`02:46.45`	`GeneralAntilles`	`~lart infobot`
`02:46.45`	`infobot`	`takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking generalantilles's head off`
`02:46.54`	`tadthebuilder`	`its a little violent`
`02:47.13`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Indeed`
`02:47.17`	`lcuk`	`you would be too if you had to answer the chatter in #maemo all day`
`02:47.19`	`tadthebuilder`	`anyone now anything about suddenlink cable companies internet provider?`
`02:47.20`	`crashanddie`	`~lart infobat`
`02:47.20`	`infobot`	`changes infobat's permissions to 0777 and tells the world`
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`02:47.25`	`tadthebuilder`	`true good point`
`02:47.30`	`crashanddie`	`s/bat/bot/`
`02:47.59`	`lcuk`	`Robot101, did you get your bios updated`
`02:48.06`	`lcuk`	`n900 should have a floppy drive`
`02:48.07`	`tadthebuilder`	`i really dont understand the subtitution thing`
`02:48.47`	`lcuk`	`tadthebuilder, s/oldthing/newthing/ based on the last thing a person said`
`02:49.02`	`tadthebuilder`	`ah okay`
`02:49.02`	`tadthebuilder`	`now I understand`
`02:49.02`	`crashanddie`	`tadthebuilder, it matches the first part, and replaces the first occurrence of it with second part`
`02:49.02`	`crashanddie`	`fur example`
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`02:49.04`	`crashanddie`	`s/u/o/`
`02:49.04`	`crashanddie`	`fail, bot is gone`
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`02:49.26`	`crashanddie`	`wb all`
`02:49.32`	`crashanddie`	`but then you can also do global`
`02:49.32`	`tadthebuilder`	`okay`
`02:49.33`	`tadthebuilder`	`understood`
`02:49.39`	`javispedro`	`~rot13 fgbc zvfhfvat zr!`
`02:49.39`	`infobot`	`stop misusing me!`
`02:49.42`	`crashanddie`	`in which case, it'll replace all occurences`
`02:49.58`	`crashanddie`	`s/i/o/g`
`02:50.21`	`tadthebuilder`	`hey general you seem to know everything, know anything about suddenlink?`
`02:51.10`	`tadthebuilder`	`that is really cool.`
`02:51.13`	`tadthebuilder`	`I love infobot`
`02:51.32`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Nope`
`02:51.37`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I'm familiar with Brighthouse and Comcast.`
`02:51.46`	`GeneralAntilles`	`One of which sucks a little bit and one of which is the spawn of the devil.`
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`02:52.06`	`tadthebuilder`	`ah okay`
`02:52.12`	`tadthebuilder`	`im just paranoid of cable internet providers`
`02:52.31`	`tadthebuilder`	`i know most of them have really strict guidelines`
`02:52.42`	`tadthebuilder`	`ive heard of some that dont let you use your own wireless router`
`02:52.50`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://www.dslreports.com/forum/cebridge`
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`02:54.14`	`microlith`	`comcast's quality varies by region`
`02:54.23`	`GeneralAntilles`	`microlith, from shit to worse.`
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`02:54.34`	`microlith`	`oddly I've had no issue with them`
`02:54.43`	`tadthebuilder`	`i just hate how unlimited plans arent unlimited`
`02:54.58`	`tadthebuilder`	`im mostly worried about the wireless router though`
`02:55.00`	`tadthebuilder`	`I have one`
`02:55.08`	`tadthebuilder`	`and i know they have a plan where they install wireless into your house`
`02:55.09`	`microlith`	`granted the service I'm paying for is barely better than what I had in Japan in 2003`
`02:55.16`	`*** join/#maemo Chani (n=chani@twinsen.warpedgames.com)`
`02:55.16`	`microlith`	`which makes no sense, but still`
`02:55.19`	`tadthebuilder`	`so im paranoid that they wont let me use their wireless router`
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`02:55.30`	`tadthebuilder`	`i mean us my wireless router`
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`02:56.19`	`microlith`	`tadthebuilder: if you turn down their router, you can just use yours`
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`02:56.29`	`microlith`	`they can't block yours or somesuch`
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`02:56.37`	`tadthebuilder`	`i know they cannot stop it`
`02:56.45`	`tadthebuilder`	`but cant they forbid it in the user agreement?`
`02:57.03`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Usually they don't.`
`02:57.07`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Most of them have no reason to.`
`02:57.14`	`tadthebuilder`	`ah okay`
`02:57.17`	`luke-jr`	`usually they do forbid sharing with other people, though`
`02:57.18`	`tadthebuilder`	`well my issue is I have two choices`
`02:57.23`	`tadthebuilder`	`them or embarq dsl`
`02:57.26`	`tadthebuilder`	`I dont like dsl speeds`
`02:57.50`	`tadthebuilder`	`and im hoping to use voip (maybe even magic jack) because I have a cell phone and dont need a landline`
`02:57.59`	`tadthebuilder`	`in my opinion I dont need anything`
`02:58.02`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I'd probably go with cable.`
`02:58.05`	`tadthebuilder`	`but my wife wants some type of house phone`
`02:58.28`	`tadthebuilder`	`cable is advertising at a cheaper rate to`
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`02:58.34`	`tadthebuilder`	`20 bucks a month, even if its by itself`
`02:58.39`	`microlith`	`for how long?`
`02:58.39`	`tadthebuilder`	`though I know that an introductory rate`
`02:58.43`	`microlith`	`heh`
`02:58.48`	`tadthebuilder`	`doesnt say how long`
`02:58.52`	`tadthebuilder`	`or what the price will change too`
`02:59.05`	`tadthebuilder`	`I really dont like companies that do business like that`
`02:59.12`	`tadthebuilder`	`tell me what im going to pay when that price expires`
`02:59.56`	`crashanddie`	`meh`
`03:00.07`	`crashanddie`	`you pay $20 for a phone line?`
`03:00.59`	`tadthebuilder`	`20 dollars would be for their cable internet access`
`03:01.03`	`lcuk`	`which country are you in atm seb?`
`03:01.08`	`luke-jr`	`that's pretty standard for a phone line here...`
`03:01.16`	`crashanddie`	`uk`
`03:01.17`	`luke-jr`	`actually, rather low, except for VoIP`
`03:01.23`	`tadthebuilder`	`yeah`
`03:01.30`	`tadthebuilder`	`i realize that`
`03:02.06`	`tadthebuilder`	`but 20 dollars for cable internet seems like a scam to me...`
`03:02.06`	`tadthebuilder`	`haha`
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`03:02.30`	`GeneralAntilles`	`That's what I paid from Comcast for my first 12 months.`
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`03:02.36`	`luke-jr`	`tadthebuilder: $20 for cable internet is very low in the USA`
`03:02.39`	`tadthebuilder`	`its because their are tiers`
`03:02.43`	`tadthebuilder`	`of usage`
`03:02.44`	`tadthebuilder`	`speeds actually`
`03:02.44`	`luke-jr`	`it's usually like $45/mo`
`03:02.57`	`tadthebuilder`	`and that 1mbps`
`03:03.04`	`tadthebuilder`	`which is all they offer in my area`
`03:03.11`	`luke-jr`	`lol`
`03:03.11`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Ouch`
`03:03.14`	`tadthebuilder`	`im pretty sure that rules out reliable voip`
`03:03.16`	`luke-jr`	`I think mine is 15mbps`
`03:03.22`	`luke-jr`	`tadthebuilder: no, voip can work with dialup`
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`03:03.47`	`tadthebuilder`	`did not realize that`
`03:03.47`	`GeneralAntilles`	`20/2Mbps at my parent's house with VoIP, and digital cable for about $120 with taxes.`
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`03:04.08`	`luke-jr`	`tadthebuilder: compressed, of course`
`03:04.20`	`GeneralAntilles`	`stabs Freenode.`
`03:04.21`	`luke-jr`	`tadthebuilder: but GSM codec, which IIRC is what GSM phones use too`
`03:04.25`	`*** join/#maemo sulx (n=sulx@85.23.15.158)`
`03:04.32`	`tadthebuilder`	`ah I see`
`03:04.34`	`*** join/#maemo karbas (i=karbas@143.51.142.148)`
`03:04.43`	`tadthebuilder`	`im not entirely sure but I think that its not unlimited too`
`03:04.51`	`tadthebuilder`	`or its unlimited sorta`
`03:05.05`	`*** join/#maemo jumpula (i=jussi@smooth.piipiip.net)`
`03:05.09`	`lcuk`	`at 1mbit max they could have a low limit and still never hit it`
`03:05.28`	`tadthebuilder`	`pft`
`03:05.29`	`tadthebuilder`	`haha`
`03:05.34`	`derf`	`Wideband voice codecs work pretty well and 32kbps.`
`03:05.34`	`lcuk`	`you have to be burning up the copper to do that`
`03:05.40`	`derf`	`s/and/at`
`03:06.05`	`luke-jr`	`lcuk: most US ISPs have a 5 GB limit, which you can easily hit with 56kbps`
`03:06.21`	`luke-jr`	`cell phone ISPs*`
`03:06.21`	`derf`	`That's before overhead. UDP/RTP overhead will take up the rest of dial-up's 56kbps.`
`03:06.27`	`lcuk`	`nods depends on usage of course`
`03:06.38`	`tadthebuilder`	`i would hit 5 gigs in a week`
`03:06.47`	`tadthebuilder`	`and also that price would not be what I get`
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`03:06.59`	`derf`	`luke-jr: I have never had a US ISP with a 5 GB limit.`
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`03:07.04`	`luke-jr`	`I used 3.2 GB today.`
`03:07.12`	`luke-jr`	`and I don't think I even did any torrenting`
`03:07.15`	`tadthebuilder`	`thats for people who have tv service its twenty dollars a month to add internet`
`03:07.18`	`luke-jr`	`derf: cell phone ISP`
`03:07.18`	`tadthebuilder`	`i cannot find their typical price`
`03:07.30`	`derf`	`luke-jr: Oh. Yes.`
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`03:08.45`	`tadthebuilder`	`the problem is I dont want tv`
`03:08.50`	`tadthebuilder`	`if I have internet why would I need tv...`
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`03:09.21`	`crashanddie`	`Free.fr, 30eur pm, 28Meg dsl internet (100% unlimited), Free VOIP across any interesting part of the world (landlines only by default, mobiles included for US/Canada), + 300 TV channels provided through a set top box which does DVR (300gig HD) and can be connected through CPL or ethernet`
`03:09.24`	`*** join/#maemo cpt_nemo (i=cpt_nemo@78.47.2.107)`
`03:09.25`	`crashanddie`	`compete with that, bitch ;)`
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`03:10.01`	`tadthebuilder`	`thats sixty usd a month aproximately right?`
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`03:10.47`	`Robot101`	`hmmm...`
`03:10.47`	`Robot101`	`kensington trackball/mouse thing which doesn't use bluetooth: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kensington-SlimBlade-Trackball-Mouse-Si860/dp/B000UR3TME`
`03:10.47`	`Robot101`	`or dedicated logitech trackball which does: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-904369-0914-Wireless-TrackMan-Optical/dp/B00006FMH1/`
`03:10.50`	`crashanddie`	`tadthebuilder, less, about 45`
`03:11.19`	`tadthebuilder`	`i live in the middle of nowwhere north carolina, which is why my options stink`
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`03:12.45`	`derf`	`tadthebuilder: Western half?`
`03:13.03`	`tadthebuilder`	`eastern half`
`03:13.09`	`tadthebuilder`	`martin county`
`03:13.30`	`tadthebuilder`	`about an hour and a half west of nagshead`
`03:14.01`	`derf`	`Yes, that's also pretty much the middle of nowhere.`
`03:14.02`	`tadthebuilder`	`(maybe less, just movie here...)`
`03:14.16`	`tadthebuilder`	`live in a town of 7000 people I think`
`03:14.16`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Robot101, I really like the Kensingtons.`
`03:14.36`	`derf`	`A good friend of mine is from Clinton, but that's fairly well south of where you are.`
`03:14.36`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kensington-Expert-Mouse-Trackball-compatible/dp/B00009KH63/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1258859662&sr=1-24 was the one I used last`
`03:14.44`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Although it's been replaced by an MX Revolution for a few years.`
`03:15.00`	`zeenix`	`Robot101: can't sleep because of mice issues? :)`
`03:15.27`	`tadthebuilder`	`ah makes sense derf`
`03:15.30`	`RXrenesis8`	`So far the only thing I've been able to establish is that I suck at CTF`
`03:15.39`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lol`
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`03:16.14`	`derf`	`I went to school in NC and my parents retired down there, so I've been all over the state.`
`03:16.22`	`derf`	`But still never quite to your neck of the woods.`
`03:16.29`	`Robot101`	`zeenix: lol, why are you awake? :P`
`03:16.35`	`tadthebuilder`	`there is nothing here worth seeing`
`03:16.37`	`Robot101`	`zeenix: I'm kinda on eastern time atm, not sure why`
`03:16.38`	`tadthebuilder`	`unless you like funs`
`03:16.40`	`tadthebuilder`	`guns*`
`03:16.47`	`tadthebuilder`	`there is store that claims to be the largest gun store in america`
`03:16.48`	`*** join/#maemo rZZZr (n=RzR@rzr.ww7.be)`
`03:16.51`	`derf`	`Yeah, at leats in the west you've got mountains.`
`03:16.51`	`Robot101`	`zeenix: playing with my PC on the projector, upgrading it and deciding how to control it from the sofa :)`
`03:16.55`	`derf`	`*least`
`03:17.12`	`tadthebuilder`	`I just moved here and its not horrible`
`03:17.20`	`tadthebuilder`	`but their isnt much either`
`03:17.21`	`tadthebuilder`	`"Typical usage" is defined as up to 21GB per month for users on their 1Mbps tier`
`03:17.32`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Robot101, BlueMaemo!`
`03:17.33`	`tadthebuilder`	`they have not imposed caps`
`03:17.34`	`lcuk`	`Robot101, n900 + bluemaemo`
`03:17.55`	`lcuk`	`lol GeneralAntilles`
`03:18.01`	`Robot101`	`bluemaemo did f**k all for me`
`03:18.02`	`tadthebuilder`	`but they are using a tool to show how much usage someone as used`
`03:18.10`	`tadthebuilder`	`which is typically a step on the way to imposing limitations`
`03:18.16`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Robot101, try the new version in Extras-devel.`
`03:18.34`	`Robot101`	`I read the forums and fscked around editing crap and bla bla and it just sat there and did nothing`
`03:18.52`	`lcuk`	`Robot101, what exactly do you need`
`03:19.05`	`tadthebuilder`	`Suddenlink thinks e-mails are a useful metric when talking about consumption, proclaiming that their definition of normal usage allows you to send "1.5 million emails."`
`03:19.06`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Robot101, it's been updated quite recently.`
`03:19.23`	`tadthebuilder`	`thats what i use my highspeed internet for...`
`03:19.42`	`lcuk`	`has a remote control that works over ip, it should really use tubes`
`03:19.51`	`derf`	`It's not that they think it's "useful", it's that it's good marketing.`
`03:20.10`	`tadthebuilder`	`it seems like a pointless metric to me`
`03:20.12`	`derf`	`To people who don't know anything, which is most of them, that sounds like an absurd abundance.`
`03:20.25`	`tadthebuilder`	`its like when a harddrive tells me how many mp3s it can hold...`
`03:21.26`	`lcuk`	`tadthebuilder, you DO send out 1.5million emails a week tho lol`
`03:21.35`	`tadthebuilder`	`definitly`
`03:21.41`	`tadthebuilder`	`its cause im actually a spambot`
`03:22.21`	`Robot101`	`GeneralAntilles: yeah I saw, lemme give it a try`
`03:22.32`	`Robot101`	`lcuk: just a pointer device to drive it from my sofa`
`03:22.36`	`Robot101`	`I got a kbd`
`03:22.56`	`lcuk`	`technically a wiimote would be perfect`
`03:23.02`	`lcuk`	`aim at screen`
`03:25.09`	`Robot101`	`I have a wiimote, it sucks`
`03:25.24`	`Robot101`	`well, I don't have the "sensor bar" (ie, two points of IR light)`
`03:25.30`	`Robot101`	`so it just acts as a relative input device`
`03:25.50`	`lcuk`	`simple accelerometer ala n900`
`03:25.51`	`Robot101`	`you have to rotate/tilt it to move anywhere, and level it to stop moving`
`03:26.10`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Robot101, just get a freaking sensor bar.`
`03:26.11`	`Robot101`	`which is pretty loss for a mouse`
`03:26.25`	`Robot101`	`GeneralAntilles: I dunno if that will actually make it work with wminput though`
`03:26.29`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Yeah, which is exactly why Nintendo went with the sensor bar approach. :P`
`03:27.09`	`lcuk`	`GeneralAntilles, robot101 is right, the driver and software to run it isnt in use afaik`
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`03:27.31`	`Robot101`	`wminput is this weird thing which you need to run each time, and re-pair the wiimote`
`03:27.45`	`Robot101`	`its not plain-sailing like bluetooth hid`
`03:27.55`	`lcuk`	`heh, the remote i use from n900 to my win desktop is ip`
`03:28.04`	`lcuk`	`ive never configured it beyond telling it ip`
`03:28.15`	`lcuk`	`and i can change the channel from anywhere in the world :D`
`03:28.38`	`lcuk`	`huggles his zapto.org ip`
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`03:29.05`	`tadthebuilder`	`dsl is faster...`
`03:29.36`	`lcuk`	`tadthebuilder, faster in best case, have your line checked to be certain`
`03:29.46`	`tadthebuilder`	`well`
`03:29.48`	`lcuk`	`i must go tho`
`03:29.49`	`tadthebuilder`	`i probably wont do it`
`03:29.54`	`tadthebuilder`	`have a nice night man`
`03:30.01`	`lcuk`	`gnite folks \o great to see you tad`
`03:30.06`	`Robot101`	`night lcuk`
`03:30.07`	`tadthebuilder`	`great to see you too`
`03:30.11`	`tadthebuilder`	`hope your enjoying your job`
`03:30.14`	`tadthebuilder`	`see ya around`
`03:30.18`	`lcuk`	`nite Robot101 GeneralAntilles etc \o`
`03:30.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`throws paper wads at lcuk on his way out the door.`
`03:30.41`	`tadthebuilder`	`im out too actually`
`03:30.57`	`tadthebuilder`	`nice seeing yall again. if anyone has an extra n900 send it my way`
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`03:31.04`	`tadthebuilder`	`ill be around from time to time`
`03:31.09`	`tadthebuilder`	`bye.`
`03:31.37`	`RXrenesis8`	`ok, camping works`
`03:32.10`	`GeneralAntilles`	`That was my strategy.`
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`03:45.06`	`crashanddie`	`second PS3 crash in a few hours`
`03:45.16`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Woo`
`03:46.07`	`crashanddie`	`btw, I think the last upgrade actually helped`
`03:46.21`	`crashanddie`	`I got a full 2 days of very strong usage out of the N900`
`03:46.44`	`crashanddie`	`(roughly 8 hours of mp3, 3 hours of browsing, 1 hour of phone and email)`
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`03:50.23`	`ali1234`	`playing mp3s is peanuts these days, with dsp and stuff`
`03:50.42`	`crashanddie`	`dsp is not used for mp3 IIRC`
`03:50.51`	`ali1234`	`oh realy? that sucks...`
`03:51.02`	`crashanddie`	`because the cost of keeping the DSP on (from a battery perspective) was higher than running it on the CPU`
`03:51.28`	`ali1234`	`that seems very counter intuitive`
`03:51.44`	`ali1234`	`maybe the dsp is just overkill in this case`
`03:52.32`	`ali1234`	`i mean, if the dsp would only be 1% utilized by decoding the mp3...`
`03:54.24`	`Flandry_`	`why would they include such an overpowered DSP?`
`03:55.14`	`SpeedEvil`	`h264`
`03:55.17`	`SpeedEvil`	`and friends`
`03:55.40`	`*** join/#maemo hexa (n=hexa@modemcable058.106-70-69.static.videotron.ca)`
`03:55.57`	`SpeedEvil`	`Of course - the nice way to do it would be to power up the DSP, decode 10M of raw audio, and send it back to sleep.`
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`04:02.13`	`Flandry_`	`the dsp does h264?`
`04:02.41`	`luke-jr`	`the dsp is just an alternate instruction set...`
`04:02.47`	`luke-jr`	`you can run whatever decoder you write for it`
`04:03.02`	`Flandry_`	`i'm just impressed i guess`
`04:03.16`	`Flandry_`	`is that what the NEON thing is for?`
`04:03.19`	`luke-jr`	`crashanddie: what are you talking about DSP on/off? it's not seperate from the CPU`
`04:03.26`	`luke-jr`	`Flandry_: no, I think NEON is different`
`04:03.31`	`luke-jr`	`NEON is extensions to normal ARM`
`04:03.37`	`Flandry_`	`they are separate chips`
`04:03.38`	`luke-jr`	`whereas the "DSP" is more like Jazelle and such`
`04:03.48`	`luke-jr`	`Flandry_: they aren't on N8x0 at least...`
`04:04.17`	`ali1234`	`DSP on/off is very much different from CPU on/off`
`04:04.44`	`Flandry_`	`i'm just going by the description of the OMAP chipset`
`04:04.49`	`luke-jr`	`Flandry_: OMAP is a single chip`
`04:04.56`	`Flandry_`	`talks about GPU, DSP and CPU like they are separate entities`
`04:04.56`	`ali1234`	`that's how ARM SoCs achieve such low power usage`
`04:05.27`	`luke-jr`	`Flandry_: they're logically different`
`04:05.54`	`luke-jr`	`like, you can have 3 partitions on a HD that are logically all different disks, but really only one disk`
`04:05.57`	`Flandry_`	`but obviously they can be powered independently`
`04:06.03`	`luke-jr`	`not exactly the same, since they're all the same type, but similar`
`04:06.05`	`Flandry_`	`otherwise it would be pointless`
`04:06.12`	`derf`	`They _are_ powered independently.`
`04:06.17`	`luke-jr`	`Flandry_: afaik the point of the DSP is merely marketting`
`04:06.19`	`ali1234`	`actually it's more like having a whole x86 motherboard etched into one chip`
`04:06.21`	`GAN900_`	`luke-jr, they can . . .`
`04:06.24`	`derf`	`Heck, CPUs often have individual logical units powered independently.`
`04:06.26`	`luke-jr`	`GAN900_: ?`
`04:06.26`	`GAN900_`	`What derf said.`
`04:07.10`	`GAN900`	`NEON is SIMD`
`04:07.15`	`Flandry_`	`ah`
`04:07.18`	`GAN900`	`Like SSE or AlitVec`
`04:07.30`	`derf`	`Except a heck of a lot better than SSE.`
`04:07.40`	`Flandry_`	`does Gcc not target it by default?`
`04:07.49`	`GAN900`	`Right`
`04:08.03`	`luke-jr`	`the DSP instruction set is not general-purpose AFAIK`
`04:08.18`	`luke-jr`	`it might not fit within GCC's assumptions`
`04:08.30`	`GAN900`	`Flandy_, N900 uses the DSP for video stuff.`
`04:09.23`	`GAN900`	`Audio is ARM side since it's cheaper to power one thing than two.`
`04:09.36`	`GAN900`	`Pulse is probably a contributing factor there.`
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`04:10.48`	`ali1234`	`the ARM core isn't powerful enough to decode h264...`
`04:10.58`	`ali1234`	`(real time)`
`04:11.54`	`derf`	`luke-jr: Yes it is.`
`04:11.54`	`Flandry_`	`so what does it take to get gcc to use NEON instructions?`
`04:11.58`	`derf`	`No, it's pretty radically different from the type of CPUs gcc normally targets.`
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`04:12.30`	`derf`	`gcc could probably be made to target it, but without significant work the code it generated would be ungodly slow.`
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`04:13.47`	`GAN900`	`ali1234, yes it is.`
`04:14.07`	`ali1234`	`GAN900: ok, for a specific subset of h264 it is`
`04:14.10`	`derf`	`GAN900: Depends on the resolution.`
`04:14.12`	`GAN900`	`Depends on the size and you decoder, though`
`04:14.14`	`derf`	`And bitrate.`
`04:14.22`	`GAN900`	`Of course.`
`04:14.36`	`derf`	`You aren't doing 1080p on a 600 MHz ARM.`
`04:14.41`	`GAN900`	`Duh`
`04:14.56`	`derf`	`Of course, you aren't really doing that on a 430 MHz DSP, either.`
`04:15.12`	`ali1234`	`huh, that zoom2 demo is fake then?`
`04:15.30`	`GAN900`	`Anybody tried the NEON decoder on the N900 yet?`
`04:15.51`	`derf`	`"The" NEON decoder?`
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`04:18.20`	`GAN900`	`Somebody in #beagle was working on something.`
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`04:29.49`	`crashanddie`	`I'm in the wrong industry`
`04:30.03`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Dumbass.`
`04:30.12`	`crashanddie`	`Ubisoft scored $300M in the first 24 hours of the launch of Assassin's Creed 2`
`04:30.31`	`crashanddie`	`And some con artists managed to steal $9M in 30 minutes from RBS`
`04:30.32`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Oh, christ, this guy needs to fuck off. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=385785#post385785`
`04:31.01`	`crashanddie`	`So respectively, they made as much as my company in 6 years and one quarter, excepted it's 24 hours and 30 minutes`
`04:31.04`	`Flandry`	`i've had him blocked for a month`
`04:31.24`	`Flandry`	`only time i've ever done that on a forum`
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`04:32.13`	`crashanddie`	`christaexport?`
`04:32.18`	`crashanddie`	`The religious fanatic?`
`04:32.47`	`KenYoung`	`Is this channel used for discussions of the N900, or does it have a separate IRC channel?`
`04:33.11`	`crashanddie`	`KenYoung, any Maemo related discussions are welcome`
`04:33.26`	`KenYoung`	`crashanddie, Thanks!`
`04:36.35`	`*** join/#maemo johnx (n=john@c-98-203-215-72.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
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`04:44.39`	`johnx`	`morning all`
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`04:59.45`	`LurkerXXX__`	`I wish we knew when phones would be readily available. I'm getting tempted to drive to chicago.`
`04:59.54`	`johnx`	`from where?`
`05:00.01`	`LurkerXXX__`	`cleveland`
`05:00.12`	`johnx`	`though, aren't they only available in chicago for people who had a preorder?`
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`05:00.16`	`GeneralAntilles`	`krisse on another user rampage.`
`05:00.30`	`johnx`	`hey GeneralAntilles. saw your post on deals.woot.com :)`
`05:00.55`	`LurkerXXX__`	`apparently they filled a few orders made only a day or two before the pickup`
`05:01.05`	`johnx`	`huh`
`05:01.05`	`GeneralAntilles`	`johnx, I was sad to see the DROID way up on the popularity list.`
`05:01.59`	`johnx`	`eh, it's not a bad phone really, but the n900 is better even when comparing just the hardware`
`05:02.21`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Android's more evil than the iPhone in my efes.`
`05:02.25`	`GeneralAntilles`	`s/efes/eyes/`
`05:02.43`	`johnx`	`wow. might want to get that iphone pulled out of your eye ... O_o`
`05:02.45`	`LurkerXXX__`	`Depends on what you want. The droid fits on a picket easier, and I wouldn't miss the tv-out.`
`05:02.52`	`johnx`	`so anyways, I've been fighting deals.woot.com's rss feed, trying to get yahoo pipes to eat it so I can run some serious filtering`
`05:03.08`	`johnx`	`LurkerXXX__, have you compared the keyboards to each other?`
`05:03.10`	`GeneralAntilles`	`johnx, I loved the invite email.`
`05:03.20`	`johnx`	`I love woot's writing in general`
`05:03.23`	`LurkerXXX__`	`johnx: yeah, I hate the droid keyboard. no feel.`
`05:03.44`	`LurkerXXX__`	`but the capacitive vs resistive screen is nice. It's all trade-offs.`
`05:03.58`	`johnx`	`yeah. how's the droid's camera?`
`05:04.07`	`LurkerXXX__`	`Now if I could get a droid phone running maemo, that might be nice.`
`05:04.19`	`LurkerXXX__`	`ok, its slow.`
`05:04.21`	`GeneralAntilles`	`LurkerXXX__, not likely.`
`05:04.38`	`LurkerXXX__`	`but I haven't seen how fast the N900's is, cause I can't get my hands on one.`
`05:04.49`	`johnx`	`GeneralAntilles, I wouldn't rule it out entirely. if we get more disenfranchised android owners, it might happen`
`05:05.44`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I can't believe christexaport's arrogance.`
`05:05.58`	`johnx`	`you must be new to the internet`
`05:06.03`	`Flandry`	`lol`
`05:06.07`	`LurkerXXX__`	`GeneralAntilles: they have pretty similar hardware. I wonder how difficult it would be for those in the know.`
`05:06.08`	`GeneralAntilles`	`He sounds like a telecommunications company PR person talking about municipal internet access.`
`05:06.14`	`Flandry`	`just block him and be done with it`
`05:06.28`	`johnx`	`ah, a new topic`
`05:06.35`	`johnx`	`is he for or against municipal wifi?`
`05:06.50`	`johnx`	`(though if he's against I probably fall out on the same side as him for different reasons)`
`05:07.00`	`GeneralAntilles`	`"Oh man, here's this thread with a proposal that could really help a lot of people stay in touch with what's going on in Maemo, I'm just going to take a giant dump on it then go to bed."`
`05:07.04`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=385785#post385785`
`05:07.25`	`GeneralAntilles`	`johnx, I'm again municipal WiFi, but not for the reasons the telecommunications companies usually quote. ;)`
`05:08.16`	`GeneralAntilles`	`sighs.`
`05:08.21`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I really need to block Talk at the router.`
`05:08.40`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=385818#post385818 Shit like that is just energy-killing.`
`05:08.44`	`johnx`	`wow. that's fantastically arrogant. :D that should go over real well`
`05:10.28`	`johnx`	`GeneralAntilles, a little diplomacy might help ... :/`
`05:10.47`	`Flandry`	`i recommend the six-shooter`
`05:10.54`	`GeneralAntilles`	`johnx, it never works.`
`05:11.29`	`GeneralAntilles`	`johnx, I've tried that approach many times in the past and usually people like geneven just end up coming out of the woodwork to stick knives in your kidneys.`
`05:11.32`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Not worth my time, certainly.`
`05:12.10`	`johnx`	`yeah, but when whackjobs come out of nowhere to cut you down when you've been really diplomatic, it makes them look like idiots`
`05:13.36`	`Flandry`	`talk needs a finer filter for new posts`
`05:13.45`	`GeneralAntilles`	`johnx, sadly, lots of the people on Talk really dig that sort of stuff.`
`05:13.45`	`johnx`	`for the side bar?`
`05:13.49`	`Flandry`	`yeah`
`05:14.05`	`Flandry`	`i don't care about the million different threads in sales`
`05:14.23`	`johnx`	`yeah, I think it shouldn't pull from off-topic or threads that have 1) more than N votes -and- 2) a score below M`
`05:14.39`	`johnx`	`yeah, skipping sales might be nice as well`
`05:14.42`	`Flandry`	`ha yeah`
`05:15.35`	`johnx`	`GeneralAntilles, just remember, that you don't always need to be the one setting the record straight. sometimes it's ok just to let the drunks have a good old fashioned barfight, then take their wallets when they're unconscious and what were we talking about?`
`05:16.29`	`GeneralAntilles`	`johnx, yeah, I moved on to that a few months ago, but it's still disheartening to read posts like that (even when you're not participating).`
`05:16.56`	`johnx`	`for sure, which is the other feature I want on talk: "permanently ignore thread"`
`05:17.37`	`Flandry`	`they should just give General superr mod powers and discretion to delete and ban at will`
`05:17.41`	`Flandry`	`that would shake things up`
`05:17.55`	`johnx`	`sometimes reading talk is like watching the nightly fox news: death, starvation, what are the celebrities doing today? and sports`
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`05:19.46`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Flandry, I've turned that down already.`
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`05:23.01`	`Flandry`	`pity`
`05:23.20`	`RXrenesis8`	`seriously`
`05:24.03`	`johnx`	`GeneralAntilles, ah c'mon. We could call it the 'great cleansing' and have people sacrifice goats and everything. it'd be fun`
`05:24.23`	`GeneralAntilles`	`johnx, yeah, kill the Talk datacenter with fire.`
`05:24.49`	`johnx`	`jeez, work with me on terminology here: 'the purifying flame'`
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`05:26.20`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Cower before me! I shall bring down the flaming wrath of the Cabal and cleanse this stinking cesspool of noobishness henceforth!`
`05:26.40`	`johnx`	`getting into the spirit at least`
`05:26.59`	`johnx`	`make sure you get sign-off from marketing and PR before making any statements. kthx :)`
`05:27.06`	`GeneralAntilles`	`His Lordship and Imperial Highness Emperor Field Marshal Antilles hath spoken!`
`05:28.29`	`derf`	`I guess you got a promotion?`
`05:28.44`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Maemo Summit 2008`
`05:28.47`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I blame timsamoff.`
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`05:42.38`	`johnx`	`anyone else in the puget sound area?`
`05:44.05`	`johnx`	`looks like there's an N900 meetup in redmond, right on the microsoft campus on tuesday (yeah I know, if this was a movie it'd totally be some kind of trap...)`
`05:44.19`	`GeneralAntilles`	`It's a trap!`
`05:44.36`	`GeneralAntilles`	`You're going to capture everybody and turn them into WinMob fans.`
`05:44.43`	`johnx`	`yeah, that's why I'm trying to find someone else who is going to watch my back...`
`05:44.45`	`luke-jr`	`how dare he`
`05:44.47`	`GeneralAntilles`	`You guys are going to be on Microsoft commercials! O_o`
`05:44.54`	`luke-jr`	`is there an op here to minimize the damage?`
`05:46.26`	`johnx`	`eh, at least I can appease them by saying how much I like microsoft hardware`
`05:47.02`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Wont save you`
`05:48.01`	`johnx`	`well, if I'm going down, I'm taking them with me :>`
`05:48.20`	`johnx`	`the guy has an HD2 to show off as well`
`05:48.38`	`johnx`	`anyone know any zero-day exploits against winmo? <_<`
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`05:48.57`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lol`
`05:52.15`	`johnx`	`seriously though. it should be a lot of fun. I think I should setup a lightweight http server to run off my N900 and serve pages over t-mo's 3G`
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`06:00.59`	`johnx`	`jeez. omweather just keeps getting better and better`
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`06:30.01`	`auenf`	`johnx, but will t-mo give you a non-nat interface?`
`06:30.06`	`auenf`	`or better yet, static ip?`
`06:30.09`	`johnx`	`nope`
`06:30.12`	`johnx`	`not for $10/month`
`06:30.20`	`johnx`	`I'll do ssh reverse tunneling I think`
`06:30.26`	`*** join/#maemo jaem (n=jaem@69.90.55.72)`
`06:30.29`	`auenf`	`(my phone has a static ip with no ports blocked/filtered)`
`06:30.31`	`jaem`	`morning folks`
`06:30.43`	`johnx`	`auenf, that's incredible. which carrier/plan?`
`06:30.47`	`johnx`	`mornin' jaem`
`06:30.57`	`auenf`	`australia`
`06:30.57`	`jaem`	`auenf, indeed`
`06:30.59`	`jaem`	`wow`
`06:31.01`	`jaem`	`that's amazing`
`06:31.21`	`auenf`	`its a mobile broadband sim with voice calling enabled`
`06:31.31`	`auenf`	`and get a free voip DID with it`
`06:31.43`	`jaem`	`wow`
`06:31.44`	`auenf`	`http://www.exetel.com.au/residential-hspa-pricing.php`
`06:31.52`	`auenf`	`WM A or WM B`
`06:32.09`	`auenf`	`no MMS tho`
`06:32.24`	`mza`	`want my damn device.`
`06:32.55`	`johnx`	`that's not a bad deal really`
`06:32.57`	`auenf`	`(re-sold thru optus, and cause its a wireless broadband service, it doesnt have access to the special access point to connect to the MMS server, so if i get a MMS, i get this: http://sc.nitroware.net/i/brokenMMS.png )`
`06:33.12`	`jaem`	`http://imagebin.ca/img/64z9xm.png :)`
`06:33.33`	`johnx`	`I think mine's $10/month, but if they figure out which phone I'm really using it with they might make me move to a higher plan`
`06:34.12`	`jaem`	`johnx, what if I work for your carrier? O_o`
`06:34.20`	`jaem`	`...I don't, for the record`
`06:37.36`	`johnx`	`jaem, I'm not too worried`
`06:37.41`	`jaem`	`:P`
`06:37.44`	`johnx`	`i'm not violating tos I think`
`06:38.02`	`jaem`	`aww... Kopete's Pipes plugin doesn't work with CowSay :(`
`06:38.21`	`jaem`	`does anyone here use the most recent SDK VM?`
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`06:47.38`	`mza`	`wow, was that a split?`
`06:47.50`	`half_of_jaem`	`yes`
`06:48.03`	`RXrenesis8`	`holoy crap`
`06:48.08`	`jaem`	`sorry... probably shouldn't do that :S`
`06:49.04`	`mza`	`been so long`
`06:49.09`	`mza`	`i missed irc`
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`07:20.24`	`sgbirch`	`Just listening to devorak pointing out that Nokia should have gone with android.`
`07:20.49`	`johnx`	`heh. didn't he go away yet?`
`07:21.22`	`sgbirch`	`He was supportive of Nokia`
`07:22.15`	`sgbirch`	`But I have to agree maemo vs android is betamax ve vhs`
`07:22.38`	`jaem`	`?!`
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`07:23.10`	`jaem`	`give me a real Linux distro over some crazy Java stack any day`
`07:23.11`	`sgbirch`	`Why doesnt Nokia make n900 rum android apps?`
`07:23.18`	`jaem`	`besides, Google owns enough of my life as it is`
`07:23.25`	`jaem`	`sgbirch, it's not quite that simple`
`07:23.43`	`johnx`	`sgbirch, should be possible, but it wouldn't run them as well as a native android device`
`07:23.52`	`johnx`	`still might be doable if you needed that one killer app`
`07:23.57`	`jaem`	`sgbirch, Android has the Linux kernel, yes, but it's not "Linux" in the conventional (misused) sense`
`07:24.22`	`jaem`	`I'd much rather be able to hack on C++ in a terminal on my phone`
`07:24.29`	`jaem`	`:)`
`07:24.56`	`sgbirch`	`But since it is the linux kernel ...`
`07:25.16`	`johnx`	`sgbirch, this will give you some background on what's required: http://mjfrey.blogspot.com/`
`07:25.20`	`sgbirch`	`Seems like it wouldnt be too difficult`
`07:25.43`	`johnx`	`it's not exactly trivial, but it should be doable`
`07:27.05`	`ali1234`	`"It turns out that Android uses it own version of libc and all binaries get linked against that. This causes a problem when a libc already exists on your system."`
`07:27.07`	`ali1234`	`wat?`
`07:27.22`	`johnx`	`yeah`
`07:27.27`	`sgbirch`	`It would really help see the n900`
`07:27.32`	`sgbirch`	`Sell`
`07:27.37`	`ali1234`	`that is completely untrue`
`07:27.50`	`microlith`	`doesn't it use uClibc?`
`07:27.52`	`johnx`	`maybe, but what does android have in terms of apps that we don't?`
`07:28.00`	`ali1234`	`android uses uclibc and guess what - it can easily coexist with glibc`
`07:28.19`	`sgbirch`	`Market acceptance`
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`07:28.48`	`sgbirch`	`Especially in US where nokia isnt well known`
`07:30.32`	`jaem`	`sgbirch, maybe, but Android apps probably wouldn't integrate well`
`07:31.05`	`jaem`	`and intentions aside, it might end up looking (on the face of it) like Nokia is saying "we can't do this properly ourselves, so we're doing it improperly with someone else's stuff"`
`07:31.10`	`jaem`	`I'm not saying it's bad`
`07:31.11`	`johnx`	`sooo, you think it would be a good idea for them to spend lots of man-months on half-assed android-app coexistence?`
`07:31.16`	`sgbirch`	`N900 is powerful enough to run android in a chroot`
`07:31.16`	`jaem`	`but just that it would probably look bad on their part`
`07:31.26`	`jaem`	`and wouldn't be worth the effort, as johnx said`
`07:31.53`	`johnx`	`sgbirch, not as fast as the droid can run android apps, and it's (by various accounts) the first android phone to not be terribly sluggish`
`07:31.58`	`microlith`	`I could see there being a port of it at some point, but it won't be official`
`07:31.59`	`jaem`	`which ARM toolchain does the N900 use? -arm7?`
`07:32.03`	`sgbirch`	`I think it would be a good community initiative. Like wine`
`07:32.16`	`microlith`	`johnx: it's the first android phone to use better than an ARM11 CPU`
`07:32.16`	`jaem`	`sgbirch, granted, but it will probably stay like wine`
`07:32.20`	`johnx`	`sgbirch, yup, so you better get working on it :)`
`07:32.25`	`jaem`	`I don't hink Nokia cares/wants to do that`
`07:32.48`	`Pavlov`	`the droid is nice`
`07:33.03`	`ali1234`	`wine is pretty awful - nothing works well in it except popular games (ie source engine)`
`07:33.06`	`sgbirch`	`Johnx: i may do just that`
`07:33.56`	`ali1234`	`and they've been working on it for 15 years`
`07:34.21`	`sgbirch`	`You missed the point about wine, it was an example of a user iniative.`
`07:35.06`	`sgbirch`	`An android port would be much easier than wine`
`07:35.20`	`johnx`	`a community effort ... for nokia marketing reasons?`
`07:35.39`	`sulx`	`well wine isn't awful. its better than nothing`
`07:35.51`	`johnx`	`most of the android stuff is reimplentations of stuff available on other platforms except for a couple real gems`
`07:35.57`	`ali1234`	`but it's worse than running windows in virtualbox for almost everything`
`07:35.57`	`jaem`	`sgbirch, ali1234, what's even crazier (albeit cool) is the LUK project`
`07:35.57`	`sgbirch`	`No ... The itch we scratch is access to android appa`
`07:36.01`	`jaem`	`it's like Wine for the kernel`
`07:36.05`	`jaem`	`O_o`
`07:36.05`	`sgbirch`	`Apps`
`07:36.47`	`johnx`	`seems easier/more productive to just do native maemo "ports" ...`
`07:37.27`	`ali1234`	`yeah. surely if you wanted to actually get access to a large number of apps, you should make a iphone compatibility layer?`
`07:37.28`	`johnx`	`though the reality is the best answer is usually in the grey area: just like a fair number of things are based on libwine`
`07:38.18`	`sgbirch`	`Iphone is closed source .. Much more difficult`
`07:39.03`	`johnx`	`there's an objective-c iphone-like layer for maemo already`
`07:39.09`	`sgbirch`	`Anyone know how to turn off the auto uppercase feature of the n810. Hate it`
`07:39.15`	`johnx`	`davlik without all the low-level kernel hacks might be a lot more reasonable`
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`07:40.00`	`johnx`	`ie, require some small source modification to the apps`
`07:40.56`	`jaem`	`sgbirch, same - it's in Settings`
`07:40.59`	`jaem`	`under Text Settings`
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`08:03.50`	`Xisdibik`	`is lcuk awake by any chance?`
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`08:13.07`	`Jaffa`	`Morning, all`
`08:13.54`	`johnx`	`mornin' Jaffa`
`08:13.54`	`Jaffa`	`sees christaexport's reply to his Maemo Weekly News proposal and finds the irony hilarious`
`08:14.37`	`Jaffa`	`http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=385558 FWIW`
`08:14.56`	`johnx`	`yeah, that was pretty fantastic`
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`08:34.15`	`lbt`	`Jaffa: ROFL`
`08:36.35`	`Xisdibik`	`Jaffa: isnt he a symbionite anyways?`
`08:36.56`	`Xisdibik`	`Jaffa: and morning ;)`
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`08:48.44`	`Jaffa`	`Xisdibik: Ah, no; now he's an expert on all things Maemo cough`
`08:49.03`	`Xisdibik`	`lol`
`08:50.22`	`qwerty12`	`Who gives a shit what he thinks? The sad thing is, you're not going to get any volunteers because - in true Talk style - this thread is now going to turn into a war and people will forget what post #1 said`
`08:51.00`	`johnx`	`qwerty12, s/talk/forum/ <- fixed it for ya`
`08:51.34`	`qwerty12`	`johnx: Sorry, but recently, Talk has become the worst of the worst`
`08:51.54`	`timeless_mbp`	`qwerty12: you're accusing forums of having redeeming value?`
`08:52.01`	`johnx`	`I think the trick might be small doses or something`
`08:53.07`	`timeless_mbp`	`of some drug?`
`08:53.14`	`johnx`	`I keep thinking about things like splitting the forum into hacker and new-user or something, but I don't see any way that wouldn't turn the non-hacker forum into a slum`
`08:53.23`	`johnx`	`timeless_mbp, of talk.m.o`
`08:53.52`	`timeless_mbp`	`yeah, but does it take a drug (like a muscle relaxant) to enable you to tolerate it?`
`08:55.58`	`johnx`	`nah, just a certain masochistic tendency`
`08:59.36`	`Xisdibik`	`id volunteer if i had any idea how to do it :D`
`08:59.57`	`Xisdibik`	`id fall into that "new user" non hacker group tho`
`09:00.01`	`Xisdibik`	`the ones that are slummin ;)`
`09:02.03`	`johnx`	`the problem is that there is a small number of vocal people who don't search and have a feeling of entitlement`
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`09:03.08`	`Termana`	`yello`
`09:03.11`	`johnx`	`allo`
`09:04.28`	`jaem`	`hi`
`09:04.34`	`mavhc`	`you're not allowed to post a second time if someone flags your post as something easily found in search, until you reply to your own post with the answer`
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`09:06.05`	`johnx`	`I have mixed feelings about trying to solve social problems with technical solutions`
`09:06.06`	`jaem`	`mavhc, I almost like it, but it would annoy the heck out of a lot of people`
`09:06.11`	`jaem`	`and then they'd just flame their own thread`
`09:06.19`	`jaem`	`johnx, I know... that's kind of the issue`
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`09:06.49`	`johnx`	`the real life analog is the cocktail party thought, right?`
`09:07.05`	`Xisdibik`	`has mixed feelings about feelings ;)`
`09:07.12`	`jaem`	`the imminent inrush of noobs on a forum is always scary, and most technological limits alienate people through unusability or anger`
`09:07.20`	`mavhc`	`you'd have to distinguish between those who can't search and those who won't search`
`09:07.21`	`johnx`	`at some point the signal/noise drops below a usable threshold and some smallish group of like-minded people go outside to discuss whatever they were talking about`
`09:07.33`	`jaem`	`johnx, yeah... and that's sad when it happens`
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`09:07.58`	`mavhc`	`what you need is a constant flow of ex newbs helping out the new newbs`
`09:08.20`	`timeless_mbp`	`jaem: i'm going to try to post an updated deb sometime today`
`09:08.23`	`timeless_mbp`	`got time to play w/ it?`
`09:08.23`	`johnx`	`mavhc, right, and that's my biggest reason for not really entertaining the thought of splitting`
`09:08.49`	`mavhc`	`you need the people who haven't answered the same question 100 times to answer that question`
`09:09.06`	`johnx`	`yup`
`09:09.07`	`jaem`	`timeless_mbp, possibly`
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`09:09.16`	`jaem`	`tomorrow's a bit tight, but I'll try to take a look`
`09:09.27`	`jaem`	`having a bit of a code sprint with a friend`
`09:09.30`	`johnx`	`mavhc, or you need to pay people to answer the same question a million times`
`09:09.39`	`jaem`	`timeless_mbp, we have two weeks or so to deliver this project`
`09:09.40`	`jaem`	`>_<`
`09:09.42`	`jaem`	`not enough time`
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`09:09.49`	`jaem`	`and everybody's miscommunicating`
`09:10.05`	`jaem`	`I think we all are in agreement, but everyone misunderstands everyone else and thinks we're not`
`09:10.09`	`timeless_mbp`	`ooh, you could be in finland`
`09:10.22`	`jaem`	`timeless_mbp, oh?`
`09:10.24`	`jaem`	`that bad?`
`09:10.25`	`jaem`	`:P`
`09:10.32`	`timeless_mbp`	`standard operating procedure`
`09:10.35`	`jaem`	`rofl`
`09:10.39`	`mavhc`	`ask everyone to summerise the current state of play`
`09:10.56`	`timeless_mbp`	`s/summerise/summarize/`
`09:11.00`	`jaem`	`johnx, I wonder how well a hybrid chat/forum model would work`
`09:11.12`	`timeless_mbp`	`making things like summer is like handing out rose-colored glasses`
`09:11.26`	`jaem`	`something where you could have publicly viewable discussions, with comments, but the actual dicussion is limited to invited users`
`09:11.32`	`jaem`	`more like IM/blog/forum mashup`
`09:11.39`	`Jaffa`	`Xisdibik: If you read large swathes of tmo, and can distinguish something new & intefresting over something trollish/old; you're perfect`
`09:11.44`	`jaem`	`so if I think your comment is valuable, I invite you into the discussion`
`09:11.49`	`jaem`	`if not, then I can just ignore it`
`09:11.54`	`Jaffa`	`jaem. IBM had an old o,protoype thing like that`
`09:11.55`	`jaem`	`and the discussion itself stays clean`
`09:12.00`	`ali1234`	`yeah that sounds great, it really won't exclude people even more than the current system`
`09:12.10`	`johnx`	`jaem, that sounds a little too ... stilted? kind of awkward`
`09:12.17`	`Jaffa`	`jaem: and I suppose that'*s kinda what Google Wave is.`
`09:12.23`	`Jaffa`	`(bloody N900 kb)`
`09:12.31`	`Xisdibik`	`Jaffa: id probably hit that 50% of the time, but i could learn with practice, i dont swathe through large amounts of tmo. that might change once i have my n900 though :D`
`09:12.38`	`mavhc`	`well, it might be once they have better permissions`
`09:12.47`	`Jaffa`	`Xisdibik: Read most of IRC?`
`09:13.19`	`jaem`	`Jaffa, that's actually kind of what I was thinking of, only with public comments`
`09:13.21`	`Xisdibik`	`I have it open alot, im not actively reading each line, but if im using my laptop i try to catch most of what people say`
`09:13.32`	`jaem`	`the comments could be voted up or down, and optionally be hidden`
`09:13.41`	`jaem`	`but the difference is that everyone could view the discussion`
`09:13.43`	`jaem`	`and have their say`
`09:13.45`	`Jaffa`	`There're some old hands like qwerty12 who read a lot of tmo and IRC and would perfect contributors.`
`09:14.00`	`jaem`	`but they could only directly contribute if they had something valuable to say`
`09:14.39`	`jaem`	`e.g. allow the noise, but separate it from the signal`
`09:14.41`	`Jaffa`	`jaem: How would that be decided? Previous history? (if so, how did they get that history ;-))`
`09:14.51`	`johnx`	`that sounds like a recipe for favoritism...`
`09:14.54`	`jaem`	`invitation from someone in the discussion`
`09:14.56`	`jaem`	`johnx, it does`
`09:15.01`	`jaem`	`I was just throwing it out there`
`09:15.06`	`mavhc`	`vote up/down`
`09:15.08`	`jaem`	`it has all sorts of problems`
`09:15.14`	`jaem`	`mavhc, yes, with mods`
`09:15.17`	`jaem`	`but it's an interesting idea`
`09:15.18`	`johnx`	`in terms of managing 500+ post discussions, slashdot is a good model`
`09:15.18`	`Xisdibik`	`then, i volunteer qwerty12 for the job ;)`
`09:15.33`	`mavhc`	`slashdot is ahead of the curve with moderation, because they've been at it longer`
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`09:16.03`	`Jaffa`	`jaem: interesting idea indeed`
`09:16.09`	`jaem`	`Jaffa, once you had a history, maybe, but initially you'd be "promoted" from the comment thread by votes/mods/current members of the discussion`
`09:16.15`	`johnx`	`yup, they've been handling those 500+ post, various-intelligence level, no-two-people-who-know-each-other situations very well`
`09:16.16`	`mavhc`	`seems like every discussion system starts with "everyone can post", then "ops block users", then "vote up/down", then...`
`09:16.28`	`jaem`	`mavhc, yeah`
`09:16.32`	`jaem`	`and there is no perfect solution`
`09:16.44`	`jaem`	`has anyone seen an actual implementation of what I'm proposing?`
`09:17.09`	`Jaffa`	`It sounds, in practicality, a lot like Slashdot`
`09:17.19`	`timeless_mbp`	`yep`
`09:17.23`	`mavhc`	`but you're recognising the person, not the post`
`09:17.26`	`jaem`	`Jaffa, hmm... except that there's no main thread`
`09:17.29`	`timeless_mbp`	`everything in forums evolves to be like slashdot`
`09:17.40`	`mavhc`	`you want to +v people statically`
`09:17.46`	`Jaffa`	`Signal separated from noise by mods, getting consistenly promoted gets you karma which raises your default post level`
`09:17.53`	`jaem`	`I'm thinking of separating the signal from the noise, but allowing the noise - so that people can flame, but you don't have to see it`
`09:17.59`	`Jaffa`	`mavhc: /.'s karma does that`
`09:18.00`	`johnx`	`timeless_mbp, that's becuase slashdot is really a moderated mailing list with a web front-end`
`09:18.09`	`jaem`	`and the people who aren't flaming aren't going to invite flamers in to the conversation`
`09:18.23`	`mavhc`	`Jaffa: so it's a combination of both?`
`09:18.46`	`johnx`	`6 months ago I would have said we don't have the numbers to do /. style meta-moderation, but I'm beginning to change my mind :)`
`09:18.47`	`Jaffa`	`Of course, /. has a limited number of new threads each day.`
`09:19.03`	`johnx`	`Jaffa, they also have firehose now`
`09:19.24`	`Jaffa`	`johnx: we might not need M2 yet, but straight "crowd-sourced" moderation may be practicable`
`09:19.36`	`*** join/#maemo DantonicN800 (n=user@c-24-7-146-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`09:19.37`	`Jaffa`	`johnx: true, I've looked at it once I think`
`09:20.19`	`mavhc`	`but in general it's more of a "interesting comments" system than a "support forum"`
`09:20.20`	`johnx`	`and for gods' sake: real threads`
`09:20.39`	`jaem`	`johnx, yeah`
`09:20.43`	`johnx`	`mavhc, but it handles the situation that eventually topics will diverge, and this isn't necessarily bad`
`09:20.51`	`RST38h`	`moos`
`09:20.51`	`jaem`	`comments vs threads is a distinction I'd like to make`
`09:20.58`	`johnx`	`but at the same time it's nice to be able to ignore the people who are talking about something different`
`09:21.01`	`RST38h`	`So, gentlemen, what is the topic of the day? =)`
`09:21.07`	`johnx`	`RST38h, comments`
`09:21.13`	`RST38h`	`tmo?`
`09:21.15`	`jaem`	`RST38h, and threads`
`09:21.16`	`jaem`	`yes`
`09:21.17`	`timeless_mbp`	`spam`
`09:21.25`	`jaem`	`and eggs`
`09:21.26`	`RST38h`	`You know what I want...`
`09:21.27`	`mavhc`	`without threads and the ability to ignore sub threads, and basically be usenet, you can't cope`
`09:21.34`	`RST38h`	`A generalized filter interface, with a bunch of obscure stuff`
`09:21.49`	`johnx`	`heh. this solves it: make the turing test a quiz on maemo :)`
`09:21.52`	`mavhc`	`usenet with karma`
`09:21.52`	`RST38h`	`But among this stuff, I owould like ot have "filter by user's account age" ;)))`
`09:22.12`	`ali1234`	`i'd like that too, but i'd probably use it the opposite way you do`
`09:22.33`	`RST38h`	`If you hide it among other filtering options, it is less likely to raise segregation alarms among some issues-waving people`
`09:22.37`	`mavhc`	`all forum software should be a web frontend to an nntp system`
`09:22.55`	`RST38h`	`ali1234: It is fine, as long as we are both satisfied :)`
`09:23.04`	`RST38h`	`mavhc: Why not move to google groups then?`
`09:23.44`	`RST38h`	`johnx: Somebody already proposed requiring a valid tablet MAC address for some forums =)`
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`09:24.38`	`qwerty12`	`RST38h: That's fucking brilliant, but make it an IMEI number, instead`
`09:24.42`	`timeless_mbp`	`heh`
`09:25.37`	`johnx`	`also: we shouldn't check for duplicated MACs. anyone who went to the trouble of tracking down an Nxx0 MAC address "passes the test"`
`09:25.53`	`mavhc`	`that'll work for about 10 mins`
`09:27.01`	`RST38h`	`qwerty: This will limit access to people with N900s. Don't wanna do that`
`09:27.17`	`johnx`	`actually, I think we should take a page from google and their captcha system`
`09:27.20`	`ali1234`	`it's an interesting dilemma that you have`
`09:27.43`	`ali1234`	`when somebody asks for an advanced feature the response is "we can't do that, think of the USERS"`
`09:27.55`	`qwerty12`	`RST38h: Well, to the N900 fora then. That's where a lot of the idiots can be found`
`09:27.58`	`ali1234`	`but the users are the one set of people you're not actually interested in listening to`
`09:28.06`	`*** join/#maemo mikhas (n=mikhas@p4FC21C87.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`09:28.11`	`RST38h`	`johnx: I have seen a math forum that required computing an integral to join`
`09:28.27`	`ali1234`	`and i quote "We don't want 95% of users to report bugs. Most of them are woefully under-qualified to do so"`
`09:28.34`	`RST38h`	`ali1234: you are missing the point`
`09:28.42`	`RST38h`	`ali1234: like, totally, man =)`
`09:28.43`	`timeless_mbp`	`ali1234: where's that from?`
`09:28.58`	`johnx`	`timeless_mbp, GeneralAntilles :)`
`09:29.04`	`ali1234`	`timeless_mbp: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=385818&postcount=43`
`09:29.33`	`*** join/#maemo gunni (n=quassel@81.173.176.231)`
`09:29.35`	`timeless_mbp`	`gan++`
`09:29.35`	`RST38h`	`First of all, someone without a tablet (n8x0, n900, etc) is NOT a tablet user.`
`09:30.05`	`RST38h`	`Secondly, someone who only writes to forums but never really reads them is of no interest to other forum members`
`09:31.30`	`*** join/#maemo wazd (n=Miranda@80-240-220-132.dnat.migtel.ru)`
`09:31.36`	`RST38h`	`moo wazd`
`09:31.55`	`ali1234`	`there are plenty of people with 4 digit post counts who don't seem to actually read what other people write`
`09:32.08`	`RST38h`	`Exactly`
`09:33.09`	`ali1234`	`the problem is that a lot of them are supposed pillars of the community`
`09:33.27`	`timeless_mbp`	`ali1234: do i know them?`
`09:34.34`	`RST38h`	`ali1234: can I have a list? =)`
`09:34.36`	`ali1234`	`i have to wonder, if the forums are so bad, why do you all spend so much time on them?`
`09:34.54`	`ali1234`	`maybe you should accept them for what they are, and move on`
`09:34.57`	`timeless_mbp`	`ali1234: i don't spend any time on them`
`09:35.03`	`timeless_mbp`	`i don't even know where they are :)`
`09:35.04`	`RST38h`	`actually, a lot of us do not`
`09:35.10`	`RST38h`	`Not any more, anyway`
`09:35.19`	`timeless_mbp`	`RST38h: some of us are slow learners`
`09:37.14`	`Jaffa`	`RST38h's point is valid. I skimmed /some/ threads yesterday for the first time in (literally) weeks.`
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`09:38.51`	`qwerty12`	`Xisdibik, Jaffa: Posted my propsal to join. Hopefully, others will follow suit and not engage in the silly (and pointless, as it is going to happen, anyway) discussion`
`09:39.02`	`Jaffa`	`BTW, anyone know which blog christaexport is involved in?`
`09:39.09`	`Jaffa`	`qwerty12: Ta muchly :)`
`09:39.15`	`qwerty12`	`Jaffa: maemo-freak, I believe`
`09:39.29`	`Xisdibik`	`yea think what thats right`
`09:39.41`	`Jaffa`	`URL?`
`09:39.49`	`Xisdibik`	`i remember him talking about symbian-freak and the maemo alternative coming out or that was out`
`09:39.50`	`Stskeeps`	`www.maemo-freak.com probably`
`09:40.01`	`Stskeeps`	`which looks a bit amateurish`
`09:40.04`	`Xisdibik`	`think that was stolen by another company`
`09:40.07`	`ali1234`	`it's linked on his sig`
`09:40.10`	`Xisdibik`	`they had to use another`
`09:40.13`	`*** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=rsalveti@189.115.173.175)`
`09:40.19`	`wazd`	`RST38h: heya`
`09:40.21`	`wazd`	`heya all`
`09:40.22`	`Xisdibik`	`guess not`
`09:40.24`	`Xisdibik`	`its in his link`
`09:40.32`	`Xisdibik`	`heya wazd`
`09:40.58`	`qwerty12`	`Hiya, wazd`
`09:41.05`	`qwerty12`	`Does Maemo-Freak.com even want to load for anyone?`
`09:41.38`	`qwerty12`	`Ah, there it is`
`09:42.09`	`Jaffa`	`Xisdibik: ta, when I'm at a computer I'll compare the brevity, frequent, breadth I'm proposing with the infrequent, in-depth, narrow articles most blogs write`
`09:44.04`	`jaem`	`is heading offline, and then to bed at some point`
`09:44.17`	`jaem`	`timeless_mbp, send me a PM when you post the package, pleas`
`09:44.21`	`Jaffa`	`jaem: g'night!`
`09:44.29`	`timeless_mbp`	`nods`
`09:44.33`	`jaem`	`I'll still be around, but if I leave #maemo open, I'll be up all night :P`
`09:44.34`	`jaem`	`cheers`
`09:44.38`	`*** join/#maemo zap_ (n=zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net)`
`09:44.47`	`*** part/#maemo jaem (n=jaem@69.90.55.72)`
`09:45.40`	`Xisdibik`	`Jaffa: :) oki dokey`
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`11:09.20`	`*** join/#maemo kkito (n=offs@255.Red-81-44-98.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)`
`11:13.21`	`*** join/#maemo Dantonic (n=david@c-24-7-146-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`11:16.20`	`johnx`	`huh, I seem to have a weird tendency to "end" threads`
`11:16.33`	`johnx`	`or maybe I'm just replying to threads that have already run their course?`
`11:16.38`	`swc\|666`	`johnx, a thread killer are u?`
`11:16.45`	`qwerty12`	`johnx: It's just you :p`
`11:17.03`	`johnx`	`swc\|666, johnx, destroyer of threads. has a certain ring ...`
`11:17.11`	`swc\|666`	`johnx, no worries, i seem to have that effect on bottles of beer`
`11:17.19`	`johnx`	`qwerty12, well, just as long as it wasn't just me responding late`
`11:18.33`	`qwerty12`	`:)`
`11:26.47`	`Dantonic`	`hi guys`
`11:26.53`	`johnx`	`allo Dantonic`
`11:27.03`	`Dantonic`	`hey johnx do you use vnc?`
`11:27.12`	`johnx`	`very occasionally`
`11:27.21`	`Dantonic`	`what OS do you run?`
`11:27.45`	`Dantonic`	`trying to figure out how to configure the server on my desktop... so I can view it on the NIT`
`11:27.50`	`Dantonic`	`on ubuntu 9.04`
`11:27.53`	`*** join/#maemo pupnik_ (n=pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik)`
`11:28.04`	`johnx`	`x11vnc --shared --forever`
`11:28.10`	`johnx`	`don't remember if it's -- or just -`
`11:28.31`	`Dantonic`	`wait huh? what does that mean? --shared --forever`
`11:28.34`	`Dantonic`	`is that a command?`
`11:28.54`	`johnx`	`just run exactly what I typed`
`11:29.03`	`johnx`	`if you want to know more: man x11vnc`
`11:29.10`	`Dantonic`	`gotta install x11vnc first no?`
`11:29.32`	`*** join/#maemo kkito (n=offs@255.Red-81-44-98.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)`
`11:29.43`	`Dantonic`	`been trying to use "Vino"`
`11:29.51`	`Dantonic`	`the remote desktop that comes with ubuntu`
`11:30.06`	`Dantonic`	`what a headache... had it working locally but couldn't get it to work through the internet`
`11:30.13`	`Dantonic`	`now it just stopped working all together`
`11:30.16`	`Dantonic`	`I'll try x11vnc`
`11:31.04`	`Dantonic`	`ok so I started vnc like you said...`
`11:31.04`	`*** join/#maemo felipec (n=felipec@80.24.4.74)`
`11:31.09`	`Dantonic`	`without password johnx ?`
`11:31.12`	`*** join/#maemo crashanddie_ (n=crashand@SecuraBit/listener/crashanddie)`
`11:31.17`	`Dantonic`	`I guess I can set that`
`11:31.35`	`johnx`	`set it if you want`
`11:31.40`	`johnx`	`I suggest not setting it for the test`
`11:32.05`	`Dantonic`	`so now in vnc viewer how do I access it?`
`11:32.08`	`Dantonic`	`just the local ip?`
`11:32.19`	`*** join/#maemo zap (n=zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net)`
`11:32.22`	`Dantonic`	`I"d like to figure out how to access it locally and remotely`
`11:32.43`	`alterego`	`I'm going to aim at submitting a package as day into extras until I've finished doing all of mine.`
`11:34.01`	`alterego`	`Tough I'm pushing two into testing now.`
`11:34.04`	`alterego`	`~though`
`11:35.05`	`*** join/#maemo shdb (n=shdb@80-218-240-206.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`11:35.36`	`Dantonic`	`johnx, sorry how do I access the remote desktop?`
`11:35.44`	`Dantonic`	`the ip is not working`
`11:36.02`	`johnx`	`what app are you using on your tablet?`
`11:36.45`	`alterego`	`multicast dns ftw :P`
`11:36.55`	`Dantonic`	`vnc viewer`
`11:37.15`	`johnx`	`do you need to specify the 'screen' number? might be 0`
`11:37.30`	`johnx`	`might need to put it after the ip address like 192.168.1.254:0`
`11:38.10`	`*** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`11:38.12`	`Dantonic`	`could not connect...`
`11:38.18`	`Dantonic`	`I think I did somethign to the tablet earlier`
`11:38.25`	`Dantonic`	`maybe entered a command I shouldn't have`
`11:39.30`	`Dantonic`	`I entered a ssh -L 5900:user:5900 host@ip`
`11:39.33`	`Dantonic`	`not sure what that did`
`11:39.35`	`SpeedEvil`	`checks email for the first time today, and finds a shipping invoice! (For a $2000 plasma TV that I diddn't order, that is addressed to a fictitious individual.) Oh well.`
`11:39.47`	`Dantonic`	`ouch SpeedEvil`
`11:40.07`	`johnx`	`Dantonic, is that ssh still running?`
`11:40.31`	`Dantonic`	`ew idk I'm rebooting right now`
`11:40.50`	`Dantonic`	`I closed the terminal`
`11:41.12`	`Dantonic`	`question when I close the terminal for x11vnc it closes the server connection?`
`11:41.18`	`johnx`	`yes`
`11:41.20`	`Dantonic`	`ok`
`11:41.25`	`alterego`	`hopes someone has packages screen up for maemo5`
`11:41.33`	`alterego`	`~packaged`
`11:41.39`	`*** join/#maemo peter-k (n=petergre@117.136.19.3)`
`11:41.48`	`peter-k`	`hi`
`11:42.10`	`alterego`	`Yes, yes they have :) Nice`
`11:42.41`	`peter-k`	`so many people in this room`
`11:43.23`	`Stskeeps`	`yeah, big community :P`
`11:43.23`	`peter-k`	`nice to meet you alterego`
`11:43.26`	`alterego`	`So, screen + VPN on the tablet ..`
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`11:43.54`	`johnx`	`allo peter-k. what brings you here?`
`11:44.14`	`Dantonic`	`bah nothing...`
`11:44.15`	`peter-k`	`what do you mean alterego?`
`11:44.39`	`peter-k`	`i have nothing to do now so i am here johnx`
`11:44.42`	`alterego`	`I'm just coming up with some ideas.`
`11:44.52`	`alterego`	`Whilst packaging up some apps.`
`11:45.46`	`Dantonic`	`anyone run ubuntu?`
`11:45.53`	`Dantonic`	`running 9.10? how is it any problems?`
`11:46.12`	`alterego`	`I'm not having any problems with ubuntu 9.10 amd64`
`11:46.26`	`johnx`	`Dantonic, no problems here. have it on like 4 machines or so`
`11:46.36`	`Dantonic`	`cool I have 9.04 on an amd64... and its a shitfest`
`11:46.51`	`alterego`	`Yeah, I've got it on 4 hardware machines and in a few VM's. :P`
`11:46.58`	`RST38h`	`Get a real Intel ;)`
`11:47.01`	`Dantonic`	`I might just upgrade`
`11:47.07`	`alterego`	`Heh`
`11:48.05`	`johnx`	`works here on my a64 3000+ but then again, 9.04 worked too`
`11:48.14`	`johnx`	`only problem I had was my craptastic pci wifi card`
`11:48.38`	`*** part/#maemo peter-k (n=petergre@117.136.19.3)`
`11:48.50`	`RST38h`	`People reported some weird problems with AMDs over the last year`
`11:48.53`	`*** join/#maemo bilboed-tp (n=bilboed@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net)`
`11:49.00`	`RST38h`	`What exactly is the problem with SDK not running on AMDs?`
`11:49.08`	`RST38h`	`Bad QEmu?`
`11:49.49`	`alterego`	`Well,I'm not running it on an AMD.`
`11:49.56`	`alterego`	`Core2Duo here.`
`11:49.57`	`Dantonic`	`let me do a quick backup`
`11:51.43`	`johnx`	`I wish maemo sb would use a newer qemu....like one that worked`
`11:51.45`	`RST38h`	`Enabling no-execute feature should probably break QEmu...`
`11:51.56`	`RST38h`	`johnx: there is a working quemu? :)`
`11:52.11`	`johnx`	`RST38h, I'm chrooted into an arm ubuntu install doing mer work`
`11:52.25`	`RST38h`	`On a real ARM? =)`
`11:52.38`	`johnx`	`heh`
`11:52.43`	`RST38h`	`Or transparent QEmu ARM?`
`11:53.08`	`johnx`	`transparent. the files in the chroot are armel ELFs. the host machine is my athlon 64`
`11:53.23`	`RST38h`	`Aha, so it works after all`
`11:53.29`	`johnx`	`yeah, works just fine`
`11:53.50`	`RST38h`	`Well, NX stuff is optional anyway, so either it is turned off or QEmu somehow routes around it`
`11:54.51`	`johnx`	`it acts as an interpreter, same way python or sh would`
`11:55.52`	`alterego`	`Tthe "products" sesction in a users' karma oesn't take into account extras?`
`11:56.07`	`RST38h`	`johnx: QEmu is supposed to be a binary translator`
`11:56.20`	`Dantonic`	`hmm I read there's a possible bug with the upgrade`
`11:56.23`	`RST38h`	`alterego: Only takes into account proper Extras, no -Testing`
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`11:56.43`	`Dantonic`	`upgrade brakes graphic drivers and x, preventing login or startx`
`11:56.47`	`RST38h`	`johnx: I.e. it generates x86 code and then jumps to it, something NX explicitely prevents`
`11:56.47`	`alterego`	`RST38h: Ah, good, cheers :)`
`11:56.49`	`*** join/#maemo zap (n=zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net)`
`11:56.52`	`Dantonic`	`I'm gonna burn it to disk just in case`
`11:57.00`	`Dantonic`	`so i can re-install if I have to`
`11:57.29`	`johnx`	`Dantonic, which graphics card do you have?`
`11:57.57`	`Dantonic`	`Nvidia 7600GT`
`11:58.08`	`johnx`	`didn't break my 6600`
`11:58.14`	`johnx`	`or rather my install`
`11:58.19`	`RST38h`	`Nvidia...mhm.`
`11:58.31`	`Dantonic`	`well I'll burn it to disk just in case`
`11:58.34`	`Dantonic`	`dling the image`
`11:58.35`	`johnx`	`RST38h, the only sane choice for video on linux :)`
`11:58.42`	`RST38h`	`Go try IGD...`
`11:58.52`	`RST38h`	`never had a decent video card in his computers`
`11:58.53`	`alterego`	`Didn't break my 7600GT :)`
`11:59.15`	`*** join/#maemo hmacht (n=hmacht@p57AF2B8F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`11:59.19`	`johnx`	`RST38h, igd?`
`11:59.33`	`*** part/#maemo hmacht (n=hmacht@opensuse/member/hmacht)`
`11:59.42`	`Dantonic`	`man...`
`11:59.42`	`RST38h`	`Intel Graphics Device`
`11:59.43`	`alterego`	`Well, if you want performance graphics, the intel cheapo chipsets aren't too bad, I've got a desktop workstation that has an integrated intel and works great for that machine.`
`12:00.11`	`RST38h`	`A summary name for all those display adapters Intel ships for tiny laptops`
`12:00.12`	`alterego`	`I much prefer nVideia, though, for performance :)`
`12:00.22`	`*** join/#maemo hmacht (n=hmacht@p57AF2B8F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`12:00.31`	`*** join/#maemo rdorsch (n=rd@91.32.53.201)`
`12:00.40`	`Dantonic`	`so does an upgrade change everything... does it replace all configuration files? or it leaves old settings behind?`
`12:00.42`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N900 (n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12)`
`12:01.05`	`johnx`	`Dantonic, everything stays the same. if you changed some file in /etc and it wants to replace it, it will ask you first`
`12:01.14`	`Dantonic`	`ah ok`
`12:01.18`	`RST38h`	`johnx: And before that, I had something produced by the resurrected Trident, right before it went under again`
`12:01.29`	`Dantonic`	`I want it to change everything fresh... cause I think I messed with the system too much`
`12:01.32`	`RST38h`	`And before, there was the NeoMedia (?) crap`
`12:01.37`	`Dantonic`	`might have messed something up not knowing what I'm doing`
`12:01.47`	`Dantonic`	`so noob`
`12:02.29`	`Dantonic`	`305MB of 699MB`
`12:02.34`	`johnx`	`hmm, s3 virge -> nvidia 128 (added a voodoo 2) -> matrox g400 -> radeon 7000 -> nv ti4200 -> nv 6600`
`12:02.34`	`Dantonic`	`gonna go brush my teeth`
`12:03.07`	`alterego`	`How do you promote to testing?`
`12:03.21`	`johnx`	`I learned my lesson on pie in the sky, open source video driver efforts where everything will work real soon now`
`12:03.30`	`alterego`	`My packages seemed to have gone straight from devel to extras`
`12:04.04`	`SpeedEvil`	`johnx: yeah - even open-source, open docs doesn't mean there will be enough interested coders.`
`12:05.26`	`johnx`	`exactly. I decided I'd rather have a working desktop and play with embedded stuff`
`12:05.54`	`RST38h`	`alterego: maemo.org/packages`
`12:06.06`	`RST38h`	`In Fremantle, they could not go from -devel to extras`
`12:06.46`	`alterego`	`YEah, that was chinook and diablo`
`12:06.57`	`alterego`	`I'm looking at the fremantle one now.`
`12:07.01`	`alterego`	`Erm,`
`12:07.17`	`alterego`	`How do I promote it to testing for fremantle then?`
`12:07.45`	`RST38h`	`maemo.org/packages`
`12:08.00`	`alterego`	`Yeah, I'm looking at that right now.`
`12:08.09`	`Dantonic`	`I just wish on one of my linux installations everything would just work for once...`
`12:08.36`	`RST38h`	`You will need to install Windows for that...`
`12:09.09`	`johnx`	`RST38h, you misspelled "just buy a mac and do whatever steve jobs tells you to"`
`12:09.17`	`lbt`	`Dantonic: with ya....`
`12:10.21`	`*** join/#maemo mlpug (n=mlpug@a88-115-164-40.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`12:10.31`	`alterego`	`I can't see a clear way to promote these packages :(`
`12:10.58`	`Dantonic`	`lol well I don't know if I'll go that far`
`12:11.03`	`Dantonic`	`going back to windows`
`12:11.13`	`Dantonic`	`:P I just have to learn more linux`
`12:11.29`	`RST38h`	`johnx: I am not THAT sadistic`
`12:12.02`	`RST38h`	`johnx: Besides, given its use scenarios, is Mac really a computer or a consumer device for media consumption?`
`12:12.09`	`lbt`	`is mildly amused at the apple/smokers/warranty thing atm`
`12:12.30`	`RST38h`	`yea it is cute`
`12:12.47`	`johnx`	`RST38h, eh. they nerfed the iphonepod for sure, but macs are still damn nice machines for 80% of users`
`12:12.57`	`alterego`	`Well, I smoke, but I'd never smoke around my laptop or desktop.`
`12:13.17`	`alterego`	`I've seen the damage it can do, computers are delicate complex devices that should be in nice clean environments :)`
`12:13.41`	`alterego`	`Hell, I even have air filters on all my workstations just to stop them getting dusty inside.`
`12:13.53`	`*** join/#maemo tom-davidson (n=quassel@uwyo-129-72-152-201.uwyo.edu)`
`12:14.23`	`johnx`	`heh. my desktop's CPU heatsink had recently swallowed enough dust to make it totally ineffective`
`12:14.32`	`Dantonic`	`rofl alterego you should be as careful with your lungs!`
`12:14.41`	`RST38h`	`yea`
`12:14.42`	`alterego`	`Yeah :/`
`12:14.57`	`RST38h`	`they cannot be replaced too`
`12:15.07`	`RST38h`	`once the warranty expires on these...`
`12:15.11`	`Dantonic`	`"... delicate complex devices that should be in nice clean environments..."`
`12:15.17`	`Dantonic`	`:)`
`12:15.25`	`alterego`	`Presumably I have to be the registered package maintainer to promote the package to testing?`
`12:15.31`	`RST38h`	`yea`
`12:15.44`	`alterego`	`Shit, I think qwerty still has those rights :/`
`12:16.02`	`RST38h`	`what package?`
`12:16.09`	`alterego`	`ruby1.8`
`12:16.13`	`RST38h`	`ah`
`12:16.13`	`*** join/#maemo RobertH[AU] (n=robert@203-59-92-225.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`12:18.19`	`*** join/#maemo trbs (n=trbs@82-169-23-132.ip.telfort.nl)`
`12:20.00`	`timeless_mbp`	`um`
`12:20.10`	`timeless_mbp`	`my n900 has decided it doesn't want to charge anymore`
`12:20.14`	`timeless_mbp`	`anyone have this experience?`
`12:21.28`	`RST38h`	`If it is connected to a computer, then that is a known bug`
`12:21.40`	`alterego`	`timeless_mbp: my N900 hasn't turned up yet :(`
`12:21.58`	`timeless_mbp`	`it's connected to either of 2 official nokia usb chargers`
`12:22.11`	`SpeedEvil`	`Have you tried turning it off and on again?`
`12:22.26`	`RST38h`	`then it is doa i guess`
`12:22.28`	`alterego`	`Hahah`
`12:22.33`	`alterego`	`He's scared to turn it off ;)`
`12:22.41`	`kurtan`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpmLrz_lSuE`
`12:22.43`	`kurtan`	`^^`
`12:22.49`	`Stskeeps`	`timeless_mbp: pull battery and try again?`
`12:22.52`	`*** join/#maemo DantonicN800 (n=user@c-24-7-146-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`12:23.02`	`RST38h`	`removing battery is recommended though`
`12:23.06`	`timeless_mbp`	`Stskeeps: or that might kill it permanently!`
`12:23.25`	`SpeedEvil`	`pull battery, leave 5 mins, unplugged, reinsert battery, plug in usb`
`12:23.49`	`johnx`	`kurtan, that's pretty awesome`
`12:23.54`	`RST38h`	`in a fridge!`
`12:24.08`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: IT crowd :P`
`12:24.17`	`johnx`	`I guess I should start watching it`
`12:24.23`	`kurtan`	`yes you should`
`12:24.30`	`kurtan`	`atleast the first two seasons :p`
`12:24.35`	`johnx`	`I just always felt like I got enough IT and Office at work to bother watching the shows`
`12:24.59`	`kurtan`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt9j80Jkc_A`
`12:25.14`	`kurtan`	`there's one more`
`12:25.37`	`*** join/#maemo BluesLee (n=malik197@ip-62-143-232-28.unitymediagroup.de)`
`12:25.41`	`timeless_mbp`	`powering it down + pulling battery worked`
`12:26.12`	`kurtan`	`hehe :)`
`12:28.55`	`*** join/#maemo RobertH[AU]_ (n=robert@203-59-153-65.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`12:28.57`	`RST38h`	`looks at mininova.org idly, wondering what movie he should download`
`12:31.03`	`alterego`	`A legal one I hope :P`
`12:31.16`	`RST38h`	`Continue hoping, I guess...`
`12:31.19`	`SpeedEvil`	`Legally blonde?`
`12:31.46`	`RST38h`	`alterego: not a big fan of court dramas, too`
`12:31.57`	`timeless_mbp`	`hey`
`12:32.00`	`timeless_mbp`	`quick poll`
`12:32.06`	`timeless_mbp`	`'Bookmarks' or 'Browser Bookmarks'?`
`12:32.33`	`SpeedEvil`	`I'd wonder about web bookmarks.`
`12:32.54`	`RST38h`	`Stickies.`
`12:33.10`	`alterego`	`Bookmarks`
`12:33.24`	`alterego`	`Who calls a user agent a "browser" any more.`
`12:33.45`	`johnx`	`RST38h, zombieland`
`12:33.50`	`SpeedEvil`	`In a genereal context, bookmarks might be placemarks in a book, or file you're reading, or any other navigation checkpoint.`
`12:34.01`	`RST38h`	`johnx: I have got enough of those IRL`
`12:34.06`	`SpeedEvil`	`I might want to set a bookmark for January 24th 2010`
`12:34.09`	`qwerty12_N900`	`alterego: Ouch. Am I still the maintainer? If so, change it.`
`12:34.26`	`*** join/#maemo Kusk (n=a@2904ds1-sdb.0.fullrate.dk)`
`12:34.29`	`alterego`	`qwerty12_N900: trying :)`
`12:34.37`	`qwerty12_N900`	`:)`
`12:35.10`	`alterego`	`It's not clear on the protocol of how to do things in this situation, I put in a request, I don't know whether that requires your authorization or someone elses.`
`12:36.50`	`johnx`	`'night all`
`12:37.14`	`RST38h`	`g'night`
`12:39.31`	`RST38h`	`"...surpassing the Dawn of the Dead remake to become the top-grossing zombie film in history."`
`12:39.35`	`*** join/#maemo javispedro (n=user@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net)`
`12:39.46`	`*** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk)`
`12:39.48`	`RST38h`	`"top-grossing" sounds vague in this context`
`12:39.54`	`RST38h`	`heya javis, lcuk`
`12:40.06`	`javispedro`	`morn`
`12:40.09`	`lcuk`	`hey RST38h and javis lol`
`12:40.23`	`alterego`	`Heh`
`12:41.29`	`*** join/#maemo Flandry_ (n=quassel@c-71-192-162-102.hsd1.nh.comcast.net)`
`12:42.00`	`lcuk`	`has anyone seriously looked at boot from mmc on n900 yet`
`12:42.22`	`javispedro`	`stskeeps did some bootmenu stuff`
`12:42.49`	`lcuk`	`yeah that will be for mer tho i assume, im wondering what hoops would have to be crossed for a maemo clone to sd`
`12:43.00`	`*** join/#maemo yigal (n=yigal@cpe-76-93-215-64.hawaii.res.rr.com)`
`12:43.01`	`lcuk`	`especially with /opt being offsite so to speak`
`12:43.14`	`yigal`	`so should I preorder an n900 like everyone else?`
`12:43.25`	`RST38h`	`who knows?`
`12:43.28`	`*** join/#maemo zchydem_work (n=mmt@193.209.83.30)`
`12:43.34`	`javispedro`	`what kind of question is that`
`12:43.35`	`*** join/#maemo Stskeeps (n=chobits@pc-10-195.skjoldhoej.dk)`
`12:43.36`	`lcuk`	`yigal, if you were dedicated you wouldv preordered someime in 1987`
`12:43.44`	`alterego`	`Hahah`
`12:44.12`	`yigal`	`lcuk: you're right I must show my devotion`
`12:44.15`	`javispedro`	`lcuk, i dont think /opt will be a problem`
`12:44.28`	`lcuk`	`javispedro, it will if the partition is reused`
`12:44.40`	`yigal`	`I just purchased a eee t91mt, yay`
`12:44.40`	`lcuk`	`and both original and clone use the same space`
`12:44.51`	`lcuk`	`so the startup of the clone must be altered`
`12:45.03`	`lcuk`	`to mount a different path`
`12:45.08`	`javispedro`	`yeah, but just edit the partition mounting script ;)`
`12:45.19`	`javispedro`	`er.. that.`
`12:45.41`	`lcuk`	`nods`
`12:45.41`	`*** join/#maemo DantonicN800 (n=user@c-24-7-146-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`12:46.01`	`lcuk`	`in the original n8x0 cloning i dont think you needed to do that, you could just reclone and reclone as many times as you needed`
`12:46.09`	`javispedro`	`oh`
`12:46.35`	`javispedro`	`touchÃ©.`
`12:46.44`	`yigal`	`on the n900 can a chroot be installed and made to work as nicely as it is on the n8x0?`
`12:46.46`	`RST38h`	`yuigal: Devoton can only be shown through a sacrifice`
`12:47.03`	`RST38h`	`yigal: Preferably human, but a small rodent or two will do too`
`12:47.07`	`yigal`	`RST38h: should I burn my G1`
`12:47.16`	`RST38h`	`yigal: Goood idea`
`12:47.18`	`lcuk`	`hang on`
`12:47.19`	`javispedro`	`java!`
`12:47.26`	`RST38h`	`On a sacrificial fire!`
`12:47.34`	`lcuk`	`yigal, no, your g1 is not a sufficient sacrifice`
`12:47.37`	`RST38h`	`javis: not again =)`
`12:47.39`	`lcuk`	`we need something with value`
`12:47.41`	`javispedro`	`to the tentacled one!`
`12:47.50`	`yigal`	`my n800 :(`
`12:47.57`	`lcuk`	`:O how dare you`
`12:48.00`	`*** join/#maemo JPohlmann (n=jannis@xfce/core-developer/JPohlmann)`
`12:48.02`	`*** join/#maemo Unmensch (n=steven@87.162.94.63)`
`12:48.06`	`RST38h`	`Sacrificing n800 may be considered blasphemy`
`12:48.06`	`lcuk`	`thats like sacrificing your firstborn`
`12:48.09`	`lcuk`	`ahhh wlel`
`12:48.11`	`lcuk`	`needs must`
`12:48.23`	`qwerty12_N900`	`lcuk: What's wrong with that, may I ask?`
`12:48.29`	`lcuk`	`in what way`
`12:48.32`	`yigal`	`it's by its nature a horrible sacrifice`
`12:48.40`	`lcuk`	`like talking technical and stuff`
`12:49.16`	`lcuk`	`qwerty im just having a rest from some things ive been looking at`
`12:49.25`	`javispedro`	`well burning n800 kills the kittens hidden between that power maemo's cuteness`
`12:49.29`	`lcuk`	`and part of looking at them made me think about cloning`
`12:49.32`	`*** join/#maemo hannesw_ (n=hannes@91-115-223-62.adsl.highway.telekom.at)`
`12:49.32`	`*** join/#maemo L0cutus (n=kki@94.162.6.115)`
`12:49.46`	`javispedro`	`s/between/inside heh`
`12:50.17`	`lcuk`	`the n800 wasnt perfect until nokia added a bacon grill tray (hidden as a keyboard)`
`12:50.37`	`yigal`	`I will burn the my desires and purify my body so that when I'm truly ready I will finally be given the n900`
`12:50.49`	`L0cutus`	`re`
`12:50.56`	`RST38h`	`...and find out it is a phone.`
`12:50.58`	`*** join/#maemo jrocha (n=JRocha@91.117.86.40)`
`12:51.07`	`alterego`	`I think replacing my gnome-terminal launcher icon with a gnome-terminal+screen launcher icon was probably the coolest idea I've had over the past few weeks.`
`12:52.27`	`Stskeeps`	`timeless_mbp: bored?`
`12:52.30`	`yigal`	`get yakuake on maemo`
`12:52.38`	`yigal`	`drop down term, ooh`
`12:52.55`	`Stskeeps`	`oh, wait, i can do that on my ow`
`12:52.56`	`Stskeeps`	`n`
`12:53.07`	`qwerty12_N900`	`yigal: ...until you find out Matchbox sucks... =)`
`12:53.34`	`yigal`	`ya, matchbox isn't that great`
`12:53.40`	`yigal`	`it works though`
`12:53.49`	`*** join/#maemo lcukn900 (n=user@82.132.139.167)`
`12:54.08`	`yigal`	`(it) sucksless mentality goes a long way`
`12:54.59`	`*** join/#maemo edgar2 (n=edgar2@fatmama.karen.abo.fi)`
`12:55.31`	`qwerty12_N900`	`On the N800, telling it to ignore requests to make a dialog modal was awesome, as I could actually still use the tablet while sending/recieving something`
`12:55.51`	`qwerty12_N900`	`over Bluetooth`
`12:56.28`	`alterego`	`I'm thinking of turning the N810 into a home automation server, using the RS232 port talking to a MOXA box`
`12:56.54`	`alterego`	`I mean the UART talking via RS232 to a MOXA`
`12:57.07`	`*** join/#maemo baze (n=baze@f050205149.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`12:57.59`	`yigal`	`alterego: sounds pretty sweet, would you make a gui for coffee making, blind raising etc.?`
`12:58.15`	`alterego`	`Yeah, it'd be a web application though`
`12:58.41`	`yigal`	`alterego: sweet, so different devices could in theory control the house`
`12:58.43`	`alterego`	`Using my semantic services architecture with a RESTful interface on top of ti, then I could write a UI client too ^.^`
`12:59.00`	`alterego`	`Anything with a web browser and wifi access in my house yeah.`
`13:00.02`	`alterego`	`I think I'll start with getting it to turn off/on my workstation, TV/monitor, and my XBox 360`
`13:01.27`	`RST38h`	`Megalomania (n.) -- ...`
`13:01.30`	`yigal`	`the n900 is the first tablet which make it very simple to connect an external monitor so awesome, but when will I be with you sweet`
`13:01.54`	`RST38h`	`you can connect external monitor to 5800 for now`
`13:02.57`	`alterego`	`Then I'll get a beagle board to use as a media PC ^.^`
`13:03.13`	`yigal`	`ya, symbian boo`
`13:04.06`	`*** join/#maemo osku- (n=osku@cs181145060.pp.htv.fi)`
`13:04.33`	`crashanddie_`	`connecting to the external monitor is only useful for movies/clips though`
`13:04.47`	`crashanddie_`	`I can't see the resolution being nearly good enough for presentations or text editing`
`13:04.56`	`RST38h`	`looks for 4 more N900 users`
`13:04.58`	`lcuk`	`its perfect for presentations`
`13:05.07`	`lcuk`	`you mustv seen many`
`13:05.21`	`lcuk`	`text editing at 800*480 is more than people had for years`
`13:05.31`	`lcuk`	`you act like people had 1600*1200 always`
`13:05.33`	`RST38h`	`To finally push at least Speccy into Extras`
`13:05.52`	`crashanddie_`	`lcuk, I tried connecting it to my TV`
`13:05.52`	`Shapeshifter`	`Is there a way to install Qt in the sdk?`
`13:05.56`	`RST38h`	`edited a lot of text at 512x212 =)`
`13:05.57`	`crashanddie_`	`lcuk, went to TMO on it`
`13:06.08`	`crashanddie_`	`lcuk, my eyes were bleeding after 20 minutes or so`
`13:06.22`	`yigal`	`1280x800 is really nice on my 10" screen`
`13:06.39`	`lcuk`	`RST38h, spec was even lower wasnt it`
`13:06.47`	`lcuk`	`crashanddie_, thats as maybe`
`13:07.04`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: V9938 could do 512x212 text`
`13:07.17`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: TMS9918/9928 could only do 256x192`
`13:07.32`	`lcuk`	`nods`
`13:07.40`	`lcuk`	`i was amazed when the amiga had low and high res`
`13:07.57`	`RST38h`	`Oh, Atari had VARIABLE res for ages`
`13:08.05`	`lcuk`	`and even tho it flickered like a bitch and made my eyes bleed more than anything nowadays`
`13:08.07`	`lcuk`	`i was happy`
`13:08.12`	`RST38h`	`In 2600, you had to update the screen with CPU :)`
`13:08.29`	`lcuk`	`yeah sounds like xv ;)`
`13:08.39`	`RST38h`	`Ok, what would be the best tmo forum to post a request to test n900 apps?`
`13:09.09`	`Shapeshifter`	`mhhh. apt-cache search qt shows some stuff, but I don't see just "qt" and no "pyqt" either.`
`13:09.37`	`yigal`	`how do you like that 1280x800, http://yigalweinstein.info/screen-shot.png , just beautiful`
`13:10.07`	`lcuk`	`yigal, on what device`
`13:10.27`	`lcuk`	`and you lost the left hand edge`
`13:10.32`	`yigal`	`it's an eee not n900, n900 a bit overkill you're right`
`13:10.32`	`qwerty12_N900`	`yigal: Now I hate you; best I ever see all day is 1024x768 :'(`
`13:10.34`	`lcuk`	`dunno RST38h`
`13:11.20`	`*** join/#maemo EspadaV8_L (n=espadav8@93.97.175.175)`
`13:11.24`	`lbt`	`looks at his 3200x1280 desktop (with GL) and keeps schtum`
`13:12.28`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: Posting to Applications`
`13:12.49`	`RST38h`	`Would post to Games, but I am afraid to attract any attention from Oct2009ers`
`13:14.08`	`lcuk`	`lbt, sore neck?`
`13:14.16`	`lcuk`	`or all on one 4" screen`
`13:14.31`	`alterego`	`Wow, got the SDK working really well for once ^.^`
`13:14.35`	`lbt`	`I have to get up and walk to see the other edge of the screen :)`
`13:14.41`	`lcuk`	`haha`
`13:14.45`	`lcuk`	`in a different timezone`
`13:14.47`	`qwerty12_N900`	`:O`
`13:15.03`	`*** join/#maemo Stskeepz (n=chobits@pc-10-195.skjoldhoej.dk)`
`13:15.22`	`SpeedEvil`	`vaguely remembers one micro with a wierd 3 field interlace`
`13:15.29`	`lbt`	`nb Bounce on a 10' projector makes you queasy...`
`13:15.31`	`SpeedEvil`	`that 'worked' on most monitors`
`13:16.38`	`crashanddie_`	`lcuk, things are OK when the monitor is made for what you try to do`
`13:17.24`	`crashanddie_`	`lcuk, I wouldn't mind working on a 640x480 monitor, provided that it doesn't have pixels the shape of a clusterfuck`
`13:17.47`	`SpeedEvil`	`'s other device has a 480*640 3.5" screen.`
`13:17.47`	`lcuk`	`can you draw a clusterfuck and send a pic`
`13:17.56`	`alterego`	`Heh`
`13:18.31`	`yigal`	`is the video card on the n900 restricted to a max of 480x640 or can it use a higher setting on an external monitor?`
`13:18.36`	`alterego`	`1920x1200 on my lap[top, perfect for development :P`
`13:18.42`	`ShadowJK`	`lol`
`13:18.45`	`yigal`	`alterego: lol`
`13:18.46`	`Stskeepz`	`vcgomes: 800x480`
`13:18.49`	`Stskeepz`	`err, yigal`
`13:18.50`	`lcuk`	`yigal, 800*480`
`13:18.57`	`lcuk`	`or occasionally 480*800`
`13:19.04`	`lcuk`	`with aspect locking`
`13:19.15`	`yigal`	`not bad`
`13:19.40`	`lcuk`	`and i was so surprised when i found out you can drive the n900 video out with different data to the internal lcd`
`13:19.50`	`lcuk`	`so i had liqbase on one and gtk on the other`
`13:19.59`	`SpeedEvil`	`stabs the 100dpi mafia.`
`13:20.14`	`SpeedEvil`	`100dpi is a stupid resolution for screens unless you are at least 1m from them.`
`13:20.39`	`ShadowJK`	`dpi becomes a stupid measure too`
`13:20.47`	`ShadowJK`	`dpi and pixels, I mean`
`13:21.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`To an extent, yes.`
`13:21.22`	`yigal`	`dell is selling the n900 again, but for $600 now`
`13:21.27`	`lcuk`	`would love a floating point vector display`
`13:21.43`	`ShadowJK`	`something like angle of user's view taken up by a pixel`
`13:21.48`	`ShadowJK`	`it'd vary with viewing distance`
`13:22.01`	`yigal`	`sounds useful`
`13:22.07`	`yigal`	`or really confusing`
`13:22.17`	`lcuk`	`holographic display`
`13:22.18`	`SpeedEvil`	`The 'right' dpi - IMO - is one where you can display a grid antialiased at any resolution without it being detectable by the eye if the screen has double the resolution`
`13:22.19`	`RST38h`	`is there any way to create itemized lists in bbcode?`
`13:22.39`	`ShadowJK`	`if it could be measured in realtime, the size of text on the display would become smaller as you brought the device closer, and bigger as you moved it further away`
`13:23.21`	`alterego`	`Heh`
`13:23.46`	`lcuk`	`ShadowJK, no that would be seriously annoying`
`13:24.08`	`qwerty12_N900`	`RST38h: You missed the http://talk.maemo.org/maemo/images/editor/insertorderedlist.gif and http://talk.maemo.org/maemo/images/editor/insertunorderedlist.gif buttons in the bar at the top, while posting? :)`
`13:24.44`	`lcuk`	`i would write in 80pt font "you won 1million dollars" then in 6pt font "to claim enter 383487234273"`
`13:25.28`	`*** join/#maemo blawl (n=blawl@77.42.48.122)`
`13:25.33`	`ShadowJK`	`I'm saying pt is a silly measure now :)`
`13:26.10`	`lcuk`	`you need to have relative measures within your code`
`13:26.13`	`ShadowJK`	`you'd have to normalize pt to something like "6pt when viewed at 30cm" or whatever`
`13:26.13`	`lcuk`	`and pt is understood`
`13:26.29`	`lcuk`	`but a pt is already something like that`
`13:26.34`	`ShadowJK`	`no`
`13:26.36`	`blawl`	`hi, does anyone know if lastest maemo support tun/tap device?`
`13:26.47`	`blawl`	`i cannot find anything with google`
`13:27.58`	`RST38h`	`qwerty: really?`
`13:27.59`	`RST38h`	`hmm`
`13:28.29`	`*** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@stgt-5f7090ae.pool.mediaWays.net)`
`13:28.43`	`ShadowJK`	`the pt -> pixels transform depends on dpi, so it's basically a funny unit for what mm or inches expresses`
`13:30.35`	`BabelO`	`hi, any one here can tell me why this give me compile error ? device = g_object_new(LOCATION_TYPE_GPS_DEVICE, NULL);`
`13:30.45`	`BabelO`	`i followed the wiki on maemo`
`13:31.05`	`BabelO`	`invalid conversion from 'void' to 'LocationGPSDevice'`
`13:31.07`	`*** join/#maemo baze_ (n=baze@92.227.44.244)`
`13:32.05`	`lbt`	`so RST38h`
`13:32.13`	`lbt`	`I dl'ed Master Gear`
`13:32.33`	`lbt`	`and put Sega_Tween_Game_Gear.zip in ~/MyDocs`
`13:32.44`	`lbt`	`I click on it and get a black screen`
`13:35.04`	`*** join/#maemo felipec (n=felipec@238.Red-88-21-104.staticIP.rima-tde.net)`
`13:36.50`	`timeless`	`has anyone complained to the ukeyboard guys that they broke their package by using find -exec?`
`13:37.35`	`*** join/#maemo Meizirkki_ (n=Meizirkk@80.220.238.64)`
`13:38.44`	`timeless`	`is kinda surprised the builder doesn't try to install the package`
`13:39.08`	`qwerty12_N900`	`timeless: He doesn't have an N900, and the SDK features the full find`
`13:40.00`	`*** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net)`
`13:40.06`	`fragment`	`hmm, how can I reset the backlight time-out on the N900?`
`13:40.49`	`timeless`	`surely we could augmment the builder w/ a busybox root`
`13:41.14`	`*** join/#maemo shpaq (i=shpaq@85.222.29.130)`
`13:41.32`	`Stskeepz`	`jeremiah: proposal for test of packages for maemian.. does the package -actually- insert into a n900 chroot`
`13:42.02`	`Stskeepz`	`should be fairly easy with qemu arm user emulation :P`
`13:43.23`	`lbt`	`Stskeepz: do you mean an install test?`
`13:43.41`	`Stskeepz`	`yeah`
`13:44.28`	`RST38h`	`qwerty: checked, my editor shows none of these`
`13:45.01`	`javispedro`	`worries, worries, and worries.`
`13:45.13`	`jeremiah`	`Stskeepz: Sounds good, I'll write that down`
`13:45.31`	`Stskeepz`	`javispedro: about?`
`13:45.53`	`jeremiah`	`But I don't think it will be as easy as you think :P`
`13:46.29`	`qwerty12_N900`	`RST38h: When pressing "New Reply", in the text area, you should get a row of buttons above it. If not, go to http://talk.maemo.org/profile.php?do=editoptions and make sure Standard Editor is selected from "Message Editor Interface"`
`13:47.15`	`RST38h`	`qwerty: that should be it then...hm`
`13:47.23`	`lbt`	`Stskeepz: security issues in allowing a chroot with nw connections (builder is, afaik, nw-less chroot)`
`13:47.35`	`lbt`	`and you may need that to install deps?`
`13:48.02`	`RST38h`	`I had Simple Text Box there`
`13:48.19`	`Stskeepz`	`lbt: mm`
`13:48.30`	`lbt`	`just a thought...`
`13:48.38`	`lbt`	`food - back l8r`
`13:48.38`	`alterego`	`Anyone else have issues with the application manageron the SD?`
`13:48.54`	`javispedro`	`Stskeepz: work and stuff I want to do when I get the n900.`
`13:48.54`	`RST38h`	`javis: I am sure you have seen this, but just in case: http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE5AJ1EU20091120`
`13:48.56`	`alterego`	`~SDK, it doesn't seem to want to install some packages ...`
`13:48.57`	`jeremiah`	`Why wouldn't you have network?`
`13:49.05`	`jeremiah`	`I mean, how would you install depedencies?`
`13:49.18`	`javispedro`	`did anyone make ogles1.1 work in device? I kinda remember my last "remote" test failed.`
`13:49.38`	`lcuk`	`hehe @ freezing autobuilder during the install test if an app waits for input ;)`
`13:49.49`	`SpeedEvil`	`yow. ' "We are selling 400 times more games on iPhone than on Android,"' rst38`
`13:49.54`	`jeremiah`	`alterego: What packages is it choking?`
`13:49.59`	`javispedro`	`RST38h: not seen it, but totally expected.`
`13:50.17`	`alterego`	`Anything in 'ruby-defaults' try installing 'irb' from extras-devel`
`13:50.40`	`zap`	`does Nokia already sell N900? Can't find any place to buy`
`13:50.52`	`RST38h`	`javis: Seen it a few days ago, also did not see it a s a surprise =(`
`13:50.52`	`alterego`	`zap: nokia.com`
`13:50.54`	`jeremiah`	`I know this is a stupid question, but is ruby already on teh device you are trying to install on?`
`13:51.06`	`RST38h`	`zap: Apparently the closest spot is NYC :)`
`13:51.07`	`zap`	`alterego: found only tge "preorder now" page`
`13:51.09`	`alterego`	`Nope`
`13:51.18`	`RST38h`	`zap: Have you signed up for the Nov 24 event btw?`
`13:51.24`	`zap`	`no`
`13:51.26`	`jeremiah`	`irb is a repl and won't work without ruby`
`13:51.29`	`alterego`	`jeremiah: looking at the application manager logs it fails to find repository.maemo.org .. :/`
`13:51.35`	`zap`	`I don't like tusovkas :)`
`13:51.40`	`jeremiah`	`alterego: Ah, that sucks.`
`13:51.59`	`jeremiah`	`what does your sources.list look like?`
`13:52.07`	`alterego`	`But it's only that package ..`
`13:52.13`	`jeremiah`	`odd`
`13:52.27`	`RST38h`	`zap: Well, neither I nor wazd intead to stay for the party, I guess, but the presentation may be worth taking a look at`
`13:52.34`	`RST38h`	`s/intead/intend`
`13:52.53`	`alterego`	`http://pastie.org/709888`
`13:53.20`	`zap`	`RST38h: I will watch it on youtube sitting in my chair :)`
`13:53.36`	`jeremiah`	`alterego: Looks like that should work without a problem.`
`13:53.54`	`jeremiah`	`alterego: Not sure what is wrong there. :-/`
`13:54.05`	`jeremiah`	`RST38h: Are you guys in Barc?`
`13:54.16`	`jeremiah`	`And by Brac I mean Barcelona`
`13:54.17`	`*** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=Valerio@Maemo/community/council/VDVsx)`
`13:54.21`	`RST38h`	`zap: sounds like a plan I can use too =)`
`13:54.26`	`zap`	`no we're in BRIC :)`
`13:54.30`	`RST38h`	`jeremiah: Not me, out of vacation days, low on money`
`13:54.32`	`alterego`	`Anyone got a device they can try it on? :)`
`13:54.38`	`javispedro`	`natives abbreviate the city name as "BCN"`
`13:54.41`	`*** join/#maemo jrocha (n=JRocha@91.117.86.40)`
`13:54.42`	`javispedro`	`;)`
`13:55.31`	`qwerty12_N900`	`Foreigners call it "that Spanish city" ;P`
`13:55.59`	`javispedro`	`qwerty12_N900: didn't you read the tmo topic about the flag? ;)`
`13:56.03`	`RST38h`	`javis: or "Gaudi playground" =)`
`13:56.29`	`qwerty12_N900`	`javispedro: Nope, but do you happen to read BBC News? =)`
`13:57.00`	`javispedro`	`not read, but I sometimes listen to them. Blame Nokia's selection of Internet radio stations for the n810.`
`13:57.09`	`qwerty12_N900`	`javispedro: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8371305.stm`
`13:57.31`	`javispedro`	`ah, messy stuff.`
`13:58.01`	`*** join/#maemo dolphin (n=dolphin@unaffiliated/dolphin)`
`13:58.28`	`timeless_mbp`	`qwerty12_N900: that's awesome`
`13:58.28`	`*** join/#maemo JoakimCarli (n=eeeeh@83.252.242.250)`
`13:58.54`	`ShadowJK`	`that selection of radio stations is also available on S60 ;)`
`13:59.27`	`alterego`	`Does a package have to be inextras-devel for a period of time before it can be promoted to extras-testing?`
`13:59.33`	`RST38h`	`BBC isn't the worst choice though`
`13:59.43`	`javispedro`	`alterego: no,`
`13:59.43`	`alterego`	`Because I can't see anyway to promote this package :/`
`13:59.52`	`javispedro`	`but the autobuilder may take a while to upload pkgs to the repo`
`14:00.03`	`RST38h`	`alterego: ok, follow my directions`
`14:00.12`	`alterego`	`m'ksay`
`14:01.27`	`RST38h`	`alterego: go to http://www.maemo.org/packages`
`14:01.46`	`RST38h`	`alterego: click on "All packages in Fremantle Extras-devel."`
`14:02.10`	`alterego`	`m'hmm`
`14:04.51`	`*** join/#maemo letusgothen____ (n=letusgot@69-165-145-108.dsl.teksavvy.com)`
`14:05.05`	`alterego`	`Ah, there's a premote package link now :P`
`14:05.11`	`alterego`	`Thanks RST38h`
`14:07.24`	`RST38h`	`alterego: cooool =)`
`14:07.55`	`alterego`	`It was that first step that I was missing I think ;)`
`14:08.04`	`alterego`	`That linked it with the devel repository.`
`14:10.29`	`alterego`	`Oh, I can't promote the whole "package" I have to do each individual component.`
`14:10.34`	`alterego`	`(source package that is)`
`14:11.07`	`javispedro`	`what's this stuff about the "portrait mode bug"?`
`14:11.10`	`javispedro`	`~seen yerga`
`14:11.13`	`infobot`	`yerga is currently on #maemo (2d 18h 59m 8s). Has said a total of 13 messages. Is idling for 1d 19h 2m 56s, last said: 'ali1234, it worked fine here with 42-11'.`
`14:12.08`	`timeless_mbp`	`darn, SWep4 is showing`
`14:12.19`	`qwerty12_N900`	`javispedro: bug 6203, maybe`
`14:12.20`	`povbot`	`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6203 Rotation in 42-11 is not as smooth as in 41-10 for some third party apps`
`14:12.58`	`javispedro`	`no, this http://share.ovi.com/album/yerga.Maemo5portraitb`
`14:13.04`	`qwerty12_N900`	`Ah`
`14:13.42`	`qwerty12_N900`	`Maybe's he's referring to his N900 being stuck in portrait mode?`
`14:13.45`	`timeless_mbp`	`javispedro: whose calendar app is that?`
`14:13.51`	`timeless_mbp`	`the calendar app title is unfortunate`
`14:14.08`	`javispedro`	`that's what I want to know.`
`14:14.20`	`timeless_mbp`	`my guess is that it's ours`
`14:15.09`	`*** join/#maemo sjaensch (n=sj@mgdb-4db8d9ba.pool.mediaWays.net)`
`14:15.21`	`javispedro`	`well there are not that many calendar apps in fremantle ;)`
`14:15.57`	`alterego`	`Oh, balls`
`14:16.02`	`lcuk`	`course there are`
`14:16.12`	`alterego`	`ruby installs to /usr/ but we should be doing everything under /opt now right?`
`14:16.15`	`lcuk`	`calendar apps are the new media players`
`14:17.00`	`qwerty12_N900`	`Apart from metalayer-crawler, I quite liked Diablo's default`
`14:17.42`	`*** join/#maemo JoakimCarli (n=eeeeh@c83-252-242-250.bredband.comhem.se)`
`14:18.20`	`range`	`lcuk: What? The fremantle calendar doesn't play .ogg alarms?`
`14:18.40`	`javispedro`	`"It went in right before the release,`
`14:18.40`	`javispedro`	`we were not told about it, and we had no chance to test it or point out the obvious problem with it."`
`14:18.44`	`javispedro`	`sighs`
`14:19.04`	`lcuk`	`range, mmm?`
`14:19.07`	`lcuk`	`i dunno`
`14:19.34`	`Stskeepz`	`javispedro: hmm?`
`14:19.39`	`javispedro`	`ohmd`
`14:19.49`	`Stskeepz`	`ah`
`14:19.54`	`Stskeepz`	`ohmd was there from the start though? :P`
`14:20.00`	`range`	`lcuk: Well, if they are the new media players :)`
`14:20.10`	`javispedro`	`ah, I guess he meant while rotating only then`
`14:20.22`	`lcukn900`	`lol i meant as in a hello world app`
`14:21.00`	`*** join/#maemo KMFDM (n=tKMFDM@ip5658167f.direct-adsl.nl)`
`14:21.48`	`alterego`	`Can you rotate the emulator? :)`
`14:21.50`	`*** join/#maemo tiflsc (n=tiflsc@c054.fem.tu-ilmenau.de)`
`14:22.00`	`javispedro`	`"the emulator"..`
`14:22.06`	`alterego`	`Well, the SDK`
`14:22.13`	`javispedro`	`but yes, you can use xrandr to rotate Xephyr in the SDK`
`14:22.33`	`javispedro`	`or so said the wiki..`
`14:22.37`	`lcuk`	`vanishes`
`14:22.39`	`RST38h`	`Are they already filing bugs against "the emulator" on bugzilla?`
`14:23.17`	`alterego`	`Heh`
`14:23.36`	`*** join/#maemo JosefAssad (n=josef@1385158235.dhcp.dbnet.dk)`
`14:24.16`	`JosefAssad`	`quick question: the stuff listed on http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/, is that a subset of what is in extras or where does that come from?`
`14:24.46`	`javispedro`	`user/* subset of extras.`
`14:24.51`	`JosefAssad`	`ah, ok`
`14:24.58`	`alterego`	`Neat`
`14:25.34`	`crashanddie_`	`time for lunch`
`14:25.38`	`crashanddie_`	`llunch I guess, for "late lunch"`
`14:26.08`	`*** join/#maemo JoakimCarli (n=eeeeh@c83-252-242-250.bredband.comhem.se)`
`14:26.11`	`ali1234`	`qemu isn't an emulator now?`
`14:26.23`	`crashanddie_`	`The hint is in the name`
`14:26.39`	`ali1234`	`yes, that's kind of what i thought too`
`14:26.49`	`javispedro`	`but the SDK isn't.`
`14:27.07`	`ali1234`	`but the thing that lets you run armel binaries on a PC is`
`14:27.13`	`crashanddie_`	`ali1234, technically speaking, qemu is a "CPU Emulator"`
`14:27.33`	`javispedro`	`ali1234: but that's what most people talk about when they refer to the "emulator".`
`14:27.44`	`ali1234`	`javispedro: the SDK includes an emulator`
`14:27.45`	`crashanddie_`	`so, being pedantic, to answer alterego's question, "no, you can't rotate the CPU emulator"`
`14:27.45`	`javispedro`	`since, oh! the armel target doesn't even boot h-d.`
`14:28.37`	`javispedro`	`ali1234: and it includes a calendar application now, but that doesn't mean people should call it "the calendar".`
`14:28.42`	`crashanddie_`	`but yeah, people are right in using the term "emulator" for the SDK and stuff`
`14:29.08`	`javispedro`	`crashanddie_: no, because it tricks them into thinking the GUI they're seeing is being emulated. it isn't. it's running diferent binaries.`
`14:29.21`	`crashanddie_`	`who gives a?`
`14:29.27`	`alterego`	`doesn't.`
`14:29.29`	`crashanddie_`	`it emulates how your application will behave`
`14:29.48`	`alterego`	`If javispedro wants to correct everyone then so be it, I'm not going to lose sleep.`
`14:29.49`	`javispedro`	`crashanddie_: me. and the poor person who files a bug about my apps without trying on device, since I'll kill him.`
`14:29.58`	`alterego`	`Meaning is more important to me than syntax :P`
`14:30.03`	`alterego`	`Except when programming.`
`14:30.09`	`javispedro`	`or gives thumbs up/down in -testing without device.`
`14:30.19`	`crashanddie_`	`javispedro, whatev`
`14:30.25`	`lbt`	`RST38h: did you see my query re MasterGear?`
`14:30.25`	`*** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A172EA.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`14:30.27`	`javispedro`	`crashanddie_: it's already happening.`
`14:30.35`	`crashanddie_`	`javispedro, again, who gives a?`
`14:30.47`	`javispedro`	`ah well, ok.`
`14:30.51`	`crashanddie_`	`Just ask that people who provide bug reports also provide a valid mac address`
`14:30.52`	`crashanddie_`	`done`
`14:31.08`	`alterego`	`Hahah,`
`14:31.24`	`crashanddie_`	`if people are too stupid to understand that things don't work the same on-device and in the emulator, they're idiots`
`14:31.33`	`crashanddie_`	`you have the same limitation on every platform`
`14:31.50`	`javispedro`	`specially when on this platform the SDK is _not_ an emulator.`
`14:31.59`	`crashanddie_`	`javispedro, fuck off`
`14:32.12`	`ali1234`	`where i come from, an SDK is a compiler and some includes and libraries`
`14:32.18`	`ali1234`	`maybe not even the compiler`
`14:32.28`	`javispedro`	`feels a dejÃ vÃº now.`
`14:32.43`	`ali1234`	`calling the emulator "the SDK" is just wrong`
`14:32.58`	`ali1234`	`it's even more misleading than calling it "an emulator"`
`14:33.02`	`javispedro`	`it's not an emulator!`
`14:33.06`	`crashanddie_`	`javispedro, the correct spelling is: Déjà vu`
`14:33.09`	`ali1234`	`nor is it an SDK!`
`14:33.12`	`crashanddie_`	`(minus capital)`
`14:33.13`	`alterego`	`ali1234: he was right in what I Was talking about, I wasn't using the arm target, so the actual emulator (qemu) was not being used.`
`14:33.30`	`javispedro`	`while I don't agree either with calling it "SDK", at least that's what Nokia calls it.`
`14:33.31`	`ali1234`	`what you are calling the SDK is infact an entire distribution of maemo, for x86`
`14:33.41`	`javispedro`	`ok.`
`14:33.58`	`alterego`	`How about SDE then :P`
`14:34.28`	`crashanddie_`	`javispedro, iPhone emulator runs different binaries, blackberry emulator runs different binaries, android emulator runs different binaries`
`14:34.31`	`ali1234`	`hell, it would probably cause a lot less confusion if those virtual images... instead of having all the scratchbox cruft inside an ubuntu image or whatever... if they were just maemo x86 running native`
`14:34.31`	`qwerty12_N900`	`wannabe emulator`
`14:34.40`	`javispedro`	`crashanddie_: android emulator doesn't.`
`14:34.42`	`Stskeepz`	`ali1234: well, no, not really :P`
`14:34.44`	`crashanddie_`	`yes it does`
`14:34.47`	`ali1234`	`but i suppose that would be too logical`
`14:34.47`	`javispedro`	`no it doesn't`
`14:34.53`	`crashanddie_`	`javispedro, try to run a GPS app`
`14:34.53`	`javispedro`	`i just give it yesterday the snesoid apk`
`14:34.55`	`Stskeepz`	`ali1234: i welcome you to test out sdk on a x86 machine raw :P`
`14:35.14`	`ali1234`	`on a virtual machine? sure? why not?`
`14:35.21`	`javispedro`	`that is the same binary than runs on the actual phone, and it worked.`
`14:35.25`	`javispedro`	`so yes it runs same binaries.`
`14:35.29`	`javispedro`	`try that on the Maemo SDK.`
`14:36.19`	`RST38h`	`lbt: No, which one?`
`14:36.20`	`crashanddie_`	`javispedro, when I played with it (round droid 0.8, beta version), the emulator ran different low-level libs in order to have applications and platform not crash as soon as you tried to access a non-existing device, such as GPS`
`14:36.22`	`javispedro`	`it won't even work in the true "Emulator" (armel target) since qemu's sbox version support for newer arm cpus is ... well.`
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`14:36.31`	`lbt`	`RST38h: I dl'ed Master Gear`
`14:36.32`	`RST38h`	`lbt: (I may have forgotten)`
`14:36.35`	`lbt`	`and put Sega_Tween_Game_Gear.zip in ~/MyDocs`
`14:36.38`	`lbt`	`I click on it and get a black screen`
`14:36.44`	`RST38h`	`Of course`
`14:36.54`	`RST38h`	`MG does not support .zip files, and I am not sure why it should`
`14:37.02`	`crashanddie_`	`javispedro, I think I never compiled anything on device before the N900, everything was compiled in scratchbox, and then scp'd/or deb'd to the device`
`14:37.08`	`lbt`	`my other emulators did, and there are no docs and it accepted it...`
`14:37.12`	`RST38h`	`Either give it .sms/.gg file, or .sms.gz/.gg.gz`
`14:37.20`	`lbt`	`just as a comment`
`14:37.37`	`javispedro`	`crashanddie_: me neither, probably because "the emulator" in the diablo sdk was better.`
`14:37.59`	`RST38h`	`lbt: Quoting from the source code that prints help on "mg -help":`
`14:38.00`	`RST38h`	`<PROTECTED>`
`14:38.00`	`RST38h`	`<PROTECTED>`
`14:38.00`	`RST38h`	`#if defined(ZLIB)`
`14:38.00`	`RST38h`	`<PROTECTED>`
`14:38.00`	`RST38h`	`#endif`
`14:38.07`	`crashanddie_`	`javispedro, sorry for the flaming btw, nothing personal`
`14:38.22`	`crashanddie_`	`I'm just starting to get pretty sick of all the people being so seriously anal about specific words`
`14:38.22`	`javispedro`	`crashanddie_: it's me who started the flaming, so don't worry.`
`14:38.29`	`lbt`	`RST38h: err, this is a gui? with an About menu`
`14:38.31`	`alterego`	`Heh`
`14:38.36`	`wazd`	`RST38h: well, since "party" will look like silent sitting in "Yaposhka" near the store and talking with tablet users, not bloggers, then why not? :)`
`14:38.38`	`crashanddie_`	`For fuck's sake, it's a word, who gives a shit about how it's capitalised or used, as long as the meaning remains clear`
`14:38.39`	`lbt`	`maybe that would be a place for help`
`14:38.55`	`lbt`	`but if you don't want the feedback, that's cool too :)`
`14:38.57`	`RST38h`	`wazd: Yea, I am absolutely for this kind of party, I like these`
`14:38.58`	`crashanddie_`	`and yes GeneralAntilles, I'm talking to you as well with the above statement`
`14:39.21`	`RST38h`	`wazd: It is jumping around with a horde of bloggers scavenging for free food that I detest :)`
`14:39.31`	`alterego`	`Hahahah`
`14:39.57`	`wazd`	`RST38h: people on n8xx.com agree with you :)`
`14:40.06`	`RST38h`	`lbt: I guess the main problem is that I do not provide a menu item that links to the help page`
`14:40.20`	`RST38h`	`lbt: I implemented this in Windows, but it is missing from Maemo apps`
`14:40.22`	`lbt`	`and, there's no unzip on the device`
`14:40.40`	`RST38h`	`lbt: unzip is actually available from Extras-Testing or -Devel`
`14:40.51`	`RST38h`	`lbt: (and no, it is not my problem :))`
`14:40.54`	`lbt`	`it's just not as slick as it could be IMHO`
`14:41.12`	`lbt`	`filter on filetype/extentions would be useful`
`14:41.13`	`qwerty12_N900`	`RST38h: My biggest complaint with your emulators is that it quits when it can't load a file. You get a message on the console; why not show it in the GUI and give the user a chance to load a different file?`
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`14:41.23`	`RST38h`	`lbt: Well...As far as ZIP handling is concerned, I would like to avoid it. It makes complete mess of the source code.`
`14:41.43`	`RST38h`	`lbt: And does not serve any useful purpose for myself, as I keep everything gzipped`
`14:42.03`	`RST38h`	`qwerty: That is easy to fix. I will try fixing it in the next release`
`14:42.06`	`lbt`	`isn't it how they're normally handled though?`
`14:42.14`	`RST38h`	`qwerty: If it is not too much of pain, remind me about it in 3-4 days`
`14:42.20`	`lbt`	`not an emu user really`
`14:42.20`	`RST38h`	`lbt: no`
`14:42.24`	`qwerty12_N900`	`RST38h: Thanks`
`14:42.38`	`RST38h`	`lbt: GZIP support is added trivially via ZLib and it is transparent`
`14:42.53`	`lbt`	`nod`
`14:42.56`	`lbt`	`tar.gz?`
`14:43.01`	`lbt`	`or gg.gz`
`14:43.02`	`RST38h`	`lbt: ZIP support means I have to replace fopen/fread/fclose with a bunch of really messy code not written by myself`
`14:43.05`	`RST38h`	`lbt> gg.gz`
`14:43.16`	`lbt`	`and do I need all the Source/ Stuff`
`14:43.18`	`RST38h`	`lbt: Think of it this way:`
`14:43.55`	`RST38h`	`lbt: you can have a directory with 100 .gg files that you gzip *.gg and compress them well, then stop thinking of them`
`14:44.12`	`RST38h`	`lbt: Or you can have a directory with 100 .zip files containing Cthulhu knows what`
`14:44.38`	`RST38h`	`lbt: And ask the emulator author to look into each file for you, pick a file that he thinks you consider relevant, and load it`
`14:44.48`	`RST38h`	`lbt: I would like to avoid the second route`
`14:45.35`	`lbt`	`sure but the sites ship .zip packages ...`
`14:45.49`	`derf`	`RST38h: Fortunately, no one cares what you like.`
`14:46.09`	`alterego`	`Has anyone wrote a script that does the inital validation that the promotion interface does?`
`14:46.23`	`alterego`	`Might be good to have that so you can check before upploading all your junk`
`14:46.28`	`lbt`	`so it's like saying that your package mgr prefers tar.gz so we should dl .deb files, unpack them and put them together again as .tar.gz files`
`14:46.47`	`lbt`	`again, trying to be constructive`
`14:47.13`	`RST38h`	`derf: the feeling is mutual :)`
`14:47.42`	`RST38h`	`lbt: My package prefers the type of files containing rom images for the hardware I aemulate`
`14:47.59`	`lbt`	`fair enough :)`
`14:48.12`	`RST38h`	`lbt: Handling for zip archives is provided by WinZip on windows, unzip on Linux`
`14:48.19`	`ali1234`	`this is why the "file soup" method of putting everything in one directory, and having each app try to guess which files it should and shouldn't show in file dialogues, completely and utterly sucks`
`14:48.27`	`*** join/#maemo lardman (n=simon@78.150.120.147)`
`14:48.32`	`lardman`	`"morning"`
`14:48.36`	`RST38h`	`lbt: Having said that, I am sorry for not including a link to documentation into the package. Will have to fix it.`
`14:48.55`	`*** join/#maemo ReinhardK (n=rk@dyn-218.dsl-pool.de.synnet.net)`
`14:49.39`	`RST38h`	`Also, the lack of filtering by extension someone has mentioned is mostly because I could not figure out how to implement it in HildonFM2 :)`
`14:49.42`	`lbt`	`Ah, I see the .gg.gz appears with a nice icon... would be good to have a filetype filter`
`14:49.48`	`lbt`	`heh`
`14:49.52`	`RST38h`	`Yea, if you show me how to do it ;)`
`14:50.12`	`javispedro`	`looking inside .zip files? pft.`
`14:50.20`	`javispedro`	`look at how slow nautilus is.`
`14:50.23`	`lbt`	`no, just an extension filter`
`14:50.27`	`qwerty12_N900`	`RST38h: Make them as normal (and, for libhildonfm2), explictly set that filter to be active?`
`14:50.36`	`RST38h`	`lbt: Notice that I set up the icons and the MIME types for all the relevant file types`
`14:50.45`	`lbt`	`yeah, nice`
`14:51.07`	`RST38h`	`lbt: So once you stop asking for weird crap (like ZIP file parsing) and switch to correct archival methods, it all "just works" :)`
`14:51.20`	`lbt`	`and it launches...`
`14:51.27`	`RST38h`	`so it should`
`14:51.37`	`lbt`	`heh, no fair... you told me to dl a .zip file`
`14:51.44`	`RST38h`	`qwerty: Got a code snippet? ;)`
`14:52.07`	`qwerty12_N900`	`Nope =)`
`14:52.07`	`lbt`	`and mame uses zip files.... so when it opened it, I assumed it was all good`
`14:52.11`	`RST38h`	`lbt: but...mm...don't you know what to do with zip files? :)))`
`14:52.16`	`lbt`	`http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtkmm/unstable/classGtk_1_1FileFilter.html`
`14:52.21`	`RST38h`	`MAME is a bit different.`
`14:52.34`	`lbt`	`not a mame/emu expert...`
`14:52.36`	`RST38h`	`Actually, in the case of MAME, using .zips is the least of possible evils I think`
`14:52.55`	`javispedro`	`ah, are you discussing a standard extension filter for the file open dialog?`
`14:53.00`	`lbt`	`anyhow does that Sega_Tween_Game_Gear demo do anything`
`14:53.03`	`lbt`	`javispedro: yes`
`14:53.09`	`javispedro`	`i do that in drnoksnes gui, lemme check`
`14:53.11`	`RST38h`	`MAME's problem is that every coinop board has different number of roms arranged in different ways with a lot of extra stuff (like charsets, palettes, overlays)`
`14:53.22`	`RST38h`	`So, MAME is kinda like OpenOffice in terms of storage`
`14:53.34`	`RST38h`	`It has to contain lots of heterogenous data in a single file`
`14:53.51`	`RST38h`	`All the time providing access to individual parts of that data. Hence ZIP usage`
`14:54.24`	`javispedro`	`https://git.maemo.org/projects/drnoksnes/?p=drnoksnes;a=blob;f=gui/plugin.c;hb=HEAD#l126`
`14:54.28`	`RST38h`	`lbt: I have no idea what it does, just found you a homebrewn gg/sms rom to try :)`
`14:54.33`	`javispedro`	`^^ gtk_file_filter_add_pattern sample`
`14:54.50`	`*** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@a91-153-253-251.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`14:54.53`	`RST38h`	`lbt: You can google for real commercial sms/gg roms of course, but I can't legally provide you with any`
`14:55.04`	`RST38h`	`javis: Ahhhaaa!!!`
`14:55.56`	`javispedro`	`*.zip files =)`
`14:56.29`	`javispedro`	`well, see you`
`14:57.45`	`lbt`	`heh, he beat me to it :)`
`15:03.25`	`Stskeepz`	`http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34043386/ns/travel-news?GT1=43001 <- wtf`
`15:04.06`	`qwerty12_N900`	`I know I shouldn't laugh, but...`
`15:04.46`	`alterego`	`:/ libreadline5-dev seems to be broken.`
`15:05.52`	`*** join/#maemo cnorin_claesbas (n=cnorin_c@c83-248-212-32.bredband.comhem.se)`
`15:06.45`	`*** join/#maemo claesbas2 (n=cnorin_c@c83-248-212-32.bredband.comhem.se)`
`15:06.48`	`Stskeepz`	`i wonder if nokia shops / suppliers / etc has a really bad impression of upcoming n900 users by now`
`15:07.05`	`alterego`	`Heh, probably.`
`15:07.25`	`*** join/#maemo luke-jr (n=luke-jr@2002:62b3:1d4c:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d)`
`15:07.28`	`alterego`	`Though, if they see it for waht it is, anticipation, rather than just childish obsession :P`
`15:07.47`	`*** join/#maemo claesbas2_ (n=cnorin_c@c83-248-212-32.bredband.comhem.se)`
`15:07.54`	`Stskeepz`	`n900, turning people into madmen.`
`15:07.59`	`Stskeepz`	`which then will become more n900s.`
`15:08.03`	`Stskeepz`	`brilliant business model.`
`15:08.25`	`*** join/#maemo swc\|666 (n=infidel2@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821)`
`15:08.48`	`alterego`	`I for one welcome our finnish overlords :P`
`15:09.05`	`lardman`	`qwerty12_N900: interesting, I think that's a 727, which has a runway takeoff length of 5,800', which is quite a bit more than the remaining length of that runway`
`15:09.15`	`RST38h`	`How do I delete a GtkFileFilter?`
`15:10.39`	`wazd`	`OH NO THEY DID IT!`
`15:10.48`	`RST38h`	`?`
`15:10.50`	`lardman`	`what do people recommend for a music player/centre app?`
`15:10.58`	`RST38h`	`sighs at lardman`
`15:11.01`	`lardman`	`desktop`
`15:11.02`	`wazd`	`Twitter updates as a feature in MaeVoice :D`
`15:11.10`	`RST38h`	`Oh, that...`
`15:11.20`	`Stskeepz`	`wazd: keeping up to date with n900 news!`
`15:11.21`	`RST38h`	`lardman: WinAmp :)`
`15:11.21`	`Stskeepz`	`:P`
`15:11.37`	`lardman`	`Pre-installed Rhythmbox has just gone tits up`
`15:11.42`	`wazd`	`http://vimeo.com/7743059`
`15:11.57`	`RST38h`	`lardman: Whatever looks like WinAmp on Linux will do`
`15:12.04`	`wazd`	`I can EVEN update tweets! No way!`
`15:12.04`	`wazd`	`:D`
`15:12.11`	`lardman`	`yeah, am just trying to select from a long list of names tho`
`15:12.41`	`*** join/#maemo promulo (n=romulo@189.71.18.199)`
`15:12.56`	`lardman`	`tries Exaile`
`15:13.06`	`RST38h`	`lardman: pointless, go with winamp clone.`
`15:13.13`	`*** join/#maemo sleipnir (n=Sleipnir@p4FDD636E.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`15:13.19`	`RST38h`	`lardman: tried that before, only winamp works :)`
`15:13.34`	`*** join/#maemo post_j (n=poster@75.1.214.255)`
`15:13.46`	`RST38h`	`there was one more, apparently done in Motif (!), but I no longer remember the name`
`15:13.57`	`qwerty12_N900`	`lardman: Amarok, but the older versions were way better`
`15:15.34`	`ali1234`	`lots of people like banshee and songbird`
`15:15.44`	`Shapeshifter`	`songbird lol`
`15:15.46`	`ali1234`	`i've given up on that now, i just use spotify`
`15:16.02`	`*** join/#maemo sleipnir (n=Sleipnir@p4FDD636E.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`15:16.04`	`lardman`	`I'll give Amarok a go, have to switch to Qt at some point anyway ;)`
`15:16.22`	`qwerty12_N900`	`uses it in GNOME`
`15:16.26`	`Shapeshifter`	`Don't even try giving songbird more then like 10000 tracks or it will fall from the sky like a lame duck`
`15:16.33`	`lardman`	`qwerty12_N900: it's KDE based though`
`15:16.39`	`ali1234`	`yeah, same for banshee and rhythmbox`
`15:16.41`	`Shapeshifter`	`mpd + Ario = win.`
`15:16.45`	`qwerty12_N900`	`lardman: Still works`
`15:16.49`	`lardman`	`indeed`
`15:17.00`	`ali1234`	`maybe one day somebody will make a mp3 jukebox that doesn't choke on more than a couple of hundred files. but not today`
`15:17.11`	`Shapeshifter`	`ali1234: mpd.`
`15:17.18`	`ali1234`	`mpd is not a mp3 jukebox`
`15:17.21`	`ali1234`	`it has no damn gui`
`15:17.31`	`Shapeshifter`	`ali1234: you kidding >.> it has like a 100 guis.`
`15:17.34`	`ali1234`	`the mp3 playing backend is not the problem`
`15:17.43`	`Shapeshifter`	`and Ario is an awesome gui to mpd.`
`15:17.53`	`ali1234`	`the problem is all the indexing system are rubbish`
`15:18.53`	`ali1234`	`moving the player backend out of the gui is just pointless, since they all use gstreamer anyway`
`15:19.17`	`ali1234`	`none of them are even responsible for playback`
`15:19.44`	`Shapeshifter`	`ali1234: so you think it's pointless that mpd is a backend many people can use while choosing a frontend they like? like, a web frontend if you need it, or gtk, or qt, or with lots of stuff, or with little, or command line.`
`15:19.46`	`*** join/#maemo dabozz (n=benny@dslb-084-059-189-015.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`15:20.13`	`ali1234`	`yes, because the little command line part is superfluous and gstreamer is vastly superior`
`15:20.44`	`ali1234`	`i don't need yet another mp3 playing tool and all the associated audio configuration drama`
`15:20.52`	`RST38h`	`wazd: I am still missing point of MaeVoice`
`15:21.05`	`Shapeshifter`	`ali1234: gstreamer can index my music?`
`15:21.11`	`RST38h`	`wazd: Most videos look like Alcoholics Anonymous admissions`
`15:21.32`	`ali1234`	`Shapeshifter: that's exactly the problem. nothing can index music in a decent way on linux`
`15:21.50`	`Shapeshifter`	`ali1234: what's wrong with mpd?`
`15:21.54`	`GeneralAntilles`	`crashanddie_, I do. :)`
`15:21.59`	`range`	`mpd does a good job doing so.`
`15:22.33`	`GeneralAntilles`	`ali1234, really interested in that list myself. :)`
`15:23.00`	`*** join/#maemo albatross (n=albatros@93-40-130-91.ip38.fastwebnet.it)`
`15:23.02`	`Shapeshifter`	`ali1234: and what audio configuration drama are you talking about?`
`15:23.40`	`range`	`All I need is a non web gui for Maemo 5 (ncmpc probably is a bit fiddly on there)`
`15:23.41`	`lardman`	`rubbish, won't even play music while importing`
`15:24.02`	`lardman`	`too much time wasted, /me cracks on with coding and uses N900 for music`
`15:24.14`	`ali1234`	`Shapeshifter: the audio configuration drama is the one where anything that isn't gstreamer chokes to death on pulseaudio`
`15:24.28`	`Shapeshifter`	`ali1234: lol.... just install OSS for gods sake.`
`15:24.32`	`Shapeshifter`	`alsa is rubbish anyway`
`15:24.44`	`ali1234`	`and the problem with mpd is it combines a bunch of stuff that really shouldn't be combined, in a way which is totally incompatible with all other software`
`15:24.47`	`Shapeshifter`	`and complete and utter rubbish at that.`
`15:25.06`	`lardman`	`hmm, has anyone compiled battlegweled for Fremantle?`
`15:25.23`	`*** join/#maemo digitalstimulus (n=digitals@cpe-071-077-144-145.nc.res.rr.com)`
`15:25.40`	`Shapeshifter`	`ali1234: I still don't see what you're talking about. I can run mpd, listen to music, see a flash movie at the same time in firefox and put mplayer on top of that, if I ever wanted to do that. Sound is not a problem, I don't see what mpd has got to do with any of this.`
`15:25.51`	`Shapeshifter`	`Just because pulseaudio and alsa suck, doesn't mean mpd sucks >.>`
`15:26.01`	`ali1234`	`this is it though, pulseaudio does not suck for me`
`15:26.37`	`ali1234`	`what sucks is programs that don't bother to implement pulse support, instead taking the "not invented here" approach`
`15:26.40`	`RST38h`	`ahreally?`
`15:26.51`	`Shapeshifter`	`the only ever reason to use alsa is because OSS doesn't support USB sound recording (i.e. webcam mics), which is reallly sad, but other then that it's totally awesome.`
`15:27.04`	`Shapeshifter`	`ali1234: pulse support? *rolleyes`
`15:27.21`	`ali1234`	`yes pulse support`
`15:27.40`	`Shapeshifter`	`ali1234: run it through padsp.`
`15:27.44`	`range`	`Hmmm. I think the mpd I'm listening to right now has pulse support.`
`15:27.51`	`ali1234`	`padsp emulates OSS, not ALSA`
`15:28.02`	`ali1234`	`so it's only useful for a subset of all broken apps`
`15:28.25`	`ali1234`	`but hey, if you're too lazy to implement it, you could always just use gstreamer`
`15:28.36`	`RST38h`	`Should we also implement support for ALSA, ESD, ARTS?`
`15:28.41`	`ali1234`	`nope`
`15:28.44`	`Shapeshifter`	`ali1234: so you think that all apps need to start supporting the inane alsa/pulse duct-tape solution?`
`15:29.04`	`ali1234`	`especially not ESD and ARTS, nobody important has used those for at least 10 years`
`15:29.08`	`RST38h`	`Then I will probably just wait for a year or two for PA to die its natural death.`
`15:29.27`	`RST38h`	`;)`
`15:29.34`	`ali1234`	`actually i would suggest that nobody ever implement an mp3 player that hits the hardware directly`
`15:29.40`	`ali1234`	`instead, use gstreamer`
`15:30.58`	`GeneralAntilles`	`ali1234, still waiting on that list. ;)`
`15:31.07`	`ali1234`	`GeneralAntilles: at the moment it's just you`
`15:31.16`	`GeneralAntilles`	`ali1234, ah, good to know.`
`15:31.24`	`RST38h`	`So, ali, no list?`
`15:31.30`	`GeneralAntilles`	`ali1234, let me know when you get a clue.`
`15:31.34`	`RST38h`	`kinda forgot but was reminded by General`
`15:31.45`	`ali1234`	`GeneralAntilles: sure. let me know when you stop being a hypocrite :)`
`15:31.50`	`GeneralAntilles`	`'cause right now you don't have one about me or what I contribute to this community.`
`15:32.21`	`ali1234`	`GeneralAntilles: you're right. all i know about what you contribute is what i get from reading what you write`
`15:32.46`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Nor, apparently, how bugzilla works or what my comments about it mean.`
`15:33.37`	`GeneralAntilles`	`isn't surprised, anyway.`
`15:33.38`	`ali1234`	`really, what does bugzilla have to do with anything? i don't recall saying bugzilla was particularly bad?`
`15:33.58`	`lardman`	`hmm, Amarok doesn't actually play anyway`
`15:34.13`	`ali1234`	`although i might have at some point. but i don't think it's the worst bug tracker or anything`
`15:34.21`	`RST38h`	`lardman: XMMS.`
`15:34.42`	`RST38h`	`lardman: Believe me, it is going to be nother quest for the holy grail =)`
`15:34.43`	`lardman`	`I'm after something with a library`
`15:34.48`	`RST38h`	`Ah`
`15:35.00`	`lardman`	`well Amarok quite literally does not play anyway`
`15:35.25`	`RST38h`	`Does anything play? It may be a problem with the audio driver after all`
`15:35.52`	`lardman`	`nah the previous problem was a missing gst component, but I've no idea how it went missing`
`15:36.05`	`lardman`	`and now, no, afaict nothing plays from Amarok`
`15:36.14`	`qwerty12_N900`	`lardman: It saw your GStreamer code coming`
`15:36.16`	`lardman`	`it's decided to rescan though`
`15:36.25`	`lardman`	`crap software`
`15:36.39`	`lardman`	`fires up mplayer`
`15:36.40`	`RST38h`	`GStreamer has not gone missing. It hid!`
`15:37.55`	`lardman`	`ok, so other apps are happy to output audio`
`15:38.02`	`GeneralAntilles`	`ali1234, my recommendation is that you focus on that reading thing. It's not working so well for you right now.`
`15:38.33`	`alterego`	`Heh`
`15:38.56`	`alterego`	`maemo.org is always so bloody sllow for me.`
`15:39.01`	`ali1234`	`GeneralAntilles: keep up the attacks, it's really convincing me that i should re-evaluate my opinion of you`
`15:39.42`	`*** part/#maemo bulfaiter (n=simon@24.6.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com)`
`15:40.06`	`RST38h`	`Gentlemen, could you just stop it?`
`15:40.25`	`RST38h`	`It is not worth the quarrel, really.`
`15:40.49`	`pupnik_`	`whoever made this xterm open links so easy deserves @big THANKS!`
`15:41.41`	`pupnik_`	`NO MORE hilighting the url like a monkey in a bad video game`
`15:42.08`	`alterego`	`:)`
`15:42.20`	`RST38h`	`if you mean gnome terminal, it has got a few worse problems`
`15:42.34`	`lardman`	`aargh, I'm going to strangle that bloody wolf`
`15:42.42`	`lardman`	`just sitting there laughing (silently) at me`
`15:42.44`	`RST38h`	`like its insistance on focusing at the tab level`
`15:42.56`	`RST38h`	`s/level/label`
`15:45.31`	`*** join/#maemo ferulo (n=fherrera@95.16.120.217)`
`15:45.53`	`petteri`	`is there a way to get visual bell stuff into notifications with the xterm. It would be nice with irssi and mutt`
`15:46.18`	`pupnik_`	`~ < RST38h> lardman: Whatever looks like WinAmp on Linux will do`
`15:46.21`	`Shapeshifter`	`soo... is there a way to get qt and pyqt into the maemo5 sdk?`
`15:47.28`	`alterego`	`Shapeshifter: not in the repositories?`
`15:47.59`	`*** join/#maemo hardaker (n=hardaker@mail.hardakers.net)`
`15:48.24`	`*** join/#maemo cnorin_claesbas (n=cnorin_c@83.248.212.32)`
`15:48.45`	`pupnik_`	`default media player is good enough for me this time. i likes it`
`15:48.55`	`lardman`	`pupnik_: I know, but I can't see the buggers`
`15:49.11`	`*** join/#maemo DeadDodo (n=dodobird@adsl-76-192-49-182.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`15:50.43`	`RST38h`	`pupnik: he needs the one for the desktop not for N900`
`15:51.02`	`pupnik_`	`o`
`15:51.11`	`lardman`	`GStreamer-WARNING **: Failed to load plugin '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstschro.so': /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstschro.so: undefined symbol: schro_virt_frame_new_vert_downsample`
`15:51.15`	`lardman`	`that's my problem`
`15:51.19`	`Shapeshifter`	`alterego: apparently not. apt-cache qt shows some qt libs but no package "qt" and pyqt isn't there at all.`
`15:52.28`	`RST38h`	`So much for using gstreamer...`
`15:53.00`	`lardman`	`have fixed that by removing some packages, but rhythmbox still won't start, and fails silently`
`15:53.10`	`lardman`	`reaches for a stick with which to hit the computer`
`15:53.24`	`RST38h`	`Spanking penguins?`
`15:53.41`	`lardman`	`more like cracking penguin skulls open`
`15:53.58`	`RST38h`	`What would PETA say?`
`15:54.56`	`qwerty12_N900`	`He'd buy them off with some wine`
`15:56.30`	`lardman`	`hmm, banshee is written in mono?`
`15:56.44`	`range`	`Yes.`
`15:56.53`	`lardman`	`tries it anyway`
`15:57.42`	`RST38h`	`[state-of-factly] Castle Anthrax`
`15:57.58`	`DeadDodo`	`Mono's a pain in the ass. And not because of the Microsoft affiliation, either. It's bloody slow.`
`15:58.01`	`alterego`	`Seems to just be me using the auto-builder today :P`
`16:00.00`	`*** join/#maemo DeadDodo (n=dodobird@adsl-76-192-49-182.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`16:00.08`	`lardman`	`ah, finally, banshee at least plays music`
`16:00.20`	`lardman`	`now moves onto cursing segfaults`
`16:00.29`	`alterego`	`Heh`
`16:00.39`	`alterego`	`What are you trying tt odo lardman? Just listen to music?`
`16:01.09`	`lardman`	`trying to code`
`16:01.24`	`lardman`	`but wanted to listen to music, so have actually spent the best part of a hour installing stuff that won't work`
`16:01.28`	`*** join/#maemo Smily (i=Smily@BSN-143-117-28.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)`
`16:01.32`	`lardman`	`so am feeling nice and relaxed now :)`
`16:01.37`	`alterego`	`Hahah`
`16:01.38`	`lardman`	`or not`
`16:01.44`	`lardman`	`goes and get a beer`
`16:01.44`	`alterego`	`What distro you using?`
`16:01.52`	`lardman`	`Ubuntu`
`16:02.17`	`alterego`	`Weird, I use rhythmbox just fone on buntu`
`16:02.21`	`alterego`	`~fine ..`
`16:02.22`	`infobot`	`ACTION requires .. to provide everyone else in the channel with fresh triple fudge brownies`
`16:02.31`	`DeadDodo`	`Mmmm.`
`16:02.57`	`lardman`	`I did until today, when it stopped working`
`16:03.10`	`*** join/#maemo ArSa (n=ArSa@173-25-26-173.client.mchsi.com)`
`16:03.11`	`lardman`	`no clue why, worked this morning, not this afternoon, no updates inbetween`
`16:03.13`	`alterego`	`Interesting,`
`16:03.47`	`lardman`	`well I know the error - is further up the page, but that doesn't even seem to have been the issue`
`16:04.53`	`RST38h`	`~fine alterego`
`16:04.54`	`infobot`	`ACTION requires alterego to provide everyone else in the channel with fresh triple fudge brownies`
`16:05.40`	`alterego`	`rawr`
`16:05.43`	`alterego`	`What did I do? :(`
`16:05.54`	`alterego`	`Is it me wasting all the resources on the auto-builder? :P`
`16:05.55`	`RST38h`	`gave me a wrong idea.`
`16:06.06`	`lardman`	`hmm osso_get_sys_dbus_connection() is segfaulting`
`16:06.08`	`RST38h`	`That is usually sufficient, too...`
`16:07.38`	`*** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A172EA.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`16:09.27`	`lardman`	`hmm, what causes osso_initialize() to fail?`
`16:09.42`	`lardman`	`ah, version number I bet`
`16:10.36`	`RST38h`	`haven't been checking the result of osso_initialize, have we? ;)`
`16:10.53`	`Macer`	`n900 out yet?`
`16:10.56`	`Macer`	`grins`
`16:11.04`	`RST38h`	`It is out at NYC =)`
`16:11.19`	`Macer`	`chicago too from what i've heard`
`16:11.21`	`RST38h`	`Or so they say. Might be something in the water though.`
`16:11.28`	`Macer`	`"heard"`
`16:11.28`	`Macer`	`heh`
`16:14.59`	`lardman`	`hmm, still failing`
`16:15.50`	`RST38h`	`Ok, it is C# night for me =(`
`16:16.01`	`qwerty12_N900`	`RST38h: Condolences`
`16:16.13`	`konttori`	`lcuk: you around?`
`16:16.31`	`RST38h`	`btw, added extension filters, just need to test`
`16:16.51`	`RST38h`	`and if someone tells me how to start web browser from a program, I will add links to documentation`
`16:17.04`	`lardman`	`in C?`
`16:17.11`	`konttori`	`I have a small idea to add to file manager: new and modified to be on the top level of fm. It would query from tracker last 50 modified or added items (sorted by that field), and allow thus quick access to the new content.`
`16:17.25`	`konttori`	`(btw: anybody is welcome to comment if that sounds good or bad)`
`16:17.37`	`pupnik_`	`nice nice`
`16:17.42`	`lardman`	`anyone know how to debug osso startup problems?`
`16:17.44`	`konttori`	`It should be pretty trivial (and safe) change`
`16:17.45`	`Jaffa`	`konttori: Sounds good`
`16:17.48`	`pupnik_`	`i would use it`
`16:18.24`	`*** join/#maemo crashanddie__ (n=crashand@cpc1-lewi1-0-0-cust192.bmly.cable.ntl.com)`
`16:18.49`	`crashanddie__`	`"Officials in Spain tackle masturbation hands on"`
`16:18.57`	`lardman`	`lol`
`16:19.14`	`qwerty12_N900`	`Pedos in government?`
`16:19.19`	`crashanddie__`	`"Who gives a shit about the economy, let's teach our kids how to spank the monkey!"`
`16:19.50`	`crashanddie__`	`Just goes to show how useless government officials really are`
`16:19.55`	`crashanddie__`	`and how little work they accomplish`
`16:20.13`	`pupnik_`	`when is kbd backlight on n900 supposed to come on!`
`16:20.20`	`pupnik_`	`it is dark here`
`16:20.21`	`crashanddie__`	`pupnik_, when you press it`
`16:20.25`	`crashanddie__`	`pupnik_, and it's open`
`16:20.54`	`pupnik_`	`closing and reopening slide displaz worked ty`
`16:21.40`	`pupnik_`	`the letter widths are not perfect`
`16:21.47`	`pupnik_`	`u is darker than i`
`16:22.59`	`pupnik_`	`how is that for a product hardware complaint? i dont know what else seems imperfect`
`16:23.16`	`*** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@84.49.132.202)`
`16:23.23`	`ali1234`	`you think they're going to put an LED under each key?`
`16:23.37`	`pupnik_`	`nope`
`16:23.42`	`ali1234`	`oh wait, you're joking :)`
`16:24.11`	`lardman`	`wow, it works`
`16:24.28`	`lardman`	`I was testing from the command line and it wasn't working, but from the menu it does`
`16:24.31`	`lardman`	`and it even rotatesa`
`16:24.33`	`lardman`	`cool`
`16:24.39`	`SpeedEvil`	`ali1234: optimus-stylee would be cool`
`16:24.51`	`pupnik_`	`what are you doing lardman ?`
`16:25.01`	`alterego`	`That tmo thread about the ovi store license is funny.`
`16:25.10`	`alterego`	`Is it me or is tmo getting really dumb?`
`16:25.10`	`RST38h`	`SpeedEvil: isn't this what touch screen is about?`
`16:25.18`	`lardman`	`pupnik_: adding rotation support to mbarcode`
`16:26.04`	`pupnik_`	`you have barcode recognition working? congrats!`
`16:26.06`	`RST38h`	`alterego: the AI server that provided smart comments has been turned off`
`16:26.09`	`GeneralAntilles`	`alterego, it's long past dumb.`
`16:26.13`	`RST38h`	`too much resources drain`
`16:26.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`notices Reggie pushing Talk for MWN.`
`16:26.52`	`konttori`	`I think that if kb is open, the device should always be in landscape mode`
`16:26.53`	`RST38h`	`tmo or his own Maemo Talk?`
`16:26.59`	`GeneralAntilles`	`tmo`
`16:27.00`	`lardman`	`~MWN`
`16:27.10`	`lardman`	`~google MWN`
`16:27.16`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lardman, see the recent -community thread.`
`16:27.17`	`mza`	`so which plan do i need to get tmo 3g? same plan i had on my G1?`
`16:27.21`	`RST38h`	`konttori: that feels correct, but somehow I suspect there is going to be a case or two against that =)`
`16:27.25`	`lardman`	`ah, the magazine`
`16:27.25`	`lardman`	`?`
`16:27.28`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/community/55170`
`16:27.46`	`lardman`	`Jaffa's weekly news`
`16:28.01`	`konttori`	`i think it's still better than having otherwise accidental rotations`
`16:28.05`	`alterego`	`konttori: even when remaping the arrow keys to compensate for it in tetris? :)`
`16:28.13`	`SpeedEvil`	`RST38h: yes - but not quite`
`16:28.42`	`Jaffa`	`GeneralAntilles: Interesting indeed. Don't quite see how it'd work.`
`16:28.59`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Discussion of articles should go wherever the article subject originated.`
`16:29.04`	`RST38h`	`konttori: how about disabling auto-rotate but still letting application rforce portrait mode?`
`16:29.08`	`konttori`	`alterego: tetris is only in portrai`
`16:29.13`	`lardman`	`Jaffa: btw I'd be happy to contribute`
`16:29.21`	`Jaffa`	`lardman: excelllent :)`
`16:30.30`	`alterego`	`I don't know whether weekly is too much,.`
`16:30.39`	`alterego`	`Well, actually it probably isn't.`
`16:30.39`	`konttori`	`hey, is there a rar available for the device?`
`16:30.56`	`alterego`	`But I think maybe have a monthly larger edition? With like some code smnippets and tutorials or stuff.`
`16:31.11`	`lardman`	`hmm, starts being real work then though`
`16:31.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`alterego, what, and step all over christexaport's shoes? ;)`
`16:31.32`	`alterego`	`Yeah, hence having that bit monthly, gives some time to work on publishing larger articles.`
`16:32.04`	`alterego`	`Though, admittedly there is the blog-o-sphere to do our own stuff.`
`16:32.23`	`RST38h`	`has seen unrar somewhere`
`16:32.25`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Then you'd be stealing audience from people who already bought their own space. :roll:`
`16:32.42`	`Jaffa`	`alterego: Well volunteered :)`
`16:32.47`	`lardman`	`lol`
`16:32.59`	`RST38h`	`humbly suggests to Jaffa et al using newlc.com format rather than weekly`
`16:33.15`	`alterego`	`newlc is pretty well done.`
`16:33.57`	`Jaffa`	`RST38h: Isn't that basically a blog?`
`16:34.06`	`RST38h`	`Although they have changed the design in the wrong way lately`
`16:34.10`	`RST38h`	`Jaffa: Kinda`
`16:34.39`	`lardman`	`agregator?`
`16:34.47`	`RST38h`	`Jaffa: It is different from the normlal blog because they provide quality news (rather than random stuff) and periodically do specialized tutorials`
`16:34.54`	`RST38h`	`With code snippets and stuff`
`16:35.07`	`RST38h`	`So, the article quality at newlc is about the same as you propose`
`16:35.14`	`Jaffa`	`Ah, agreed. Ther's a space for that - but as lardman says, starts being real work then.`
`16:35.25`	`RST38h`	`But they just keep the flow, not doing weekly stuff`
`16:35.26`	`Jaffa`	`will leave high quality in-depth journalism to christaexport for now.`
`16:35.32`	`Jaffa`	`True`
`16:35.48`	`RST38h`	`Well, if you strive to finish it by the end of each week, it is real work`
`16:36.01`	`RST38h`	`If you finish it when you finish it, it is still bearable I guess`
`16:36.49`	`RST38h`	`tries to somehow summarize the situation`
`16:36.49`	`lardman`	`need to get some journo types involved then`
`16:36.53`	`lardman`	`as they will want to do it`
`16:36.55`	`RST38h`	`Let us see...`
`16:37.11`	`RST38h`	`1. We have a bunch of blogs from individuals, of different quality`
`16:37.18`	`RST38h`	`2. We have an aggregator of these blogs`
`16:37.23`	`RST38h`	`3. We have a forum`
`16:38.01`	`RST38h`	`One thing we miss (and I guess this is what Jaffa is trying to achieve) is a "manual" aggregator that only collects the top quality blog entries and removes all repeats`
`16:38.10`	`Jaffa`	`RST38h: Correct.`
`16:38.24`	`RST38h`	`Jaffa: In fact, I even know where you can stick it`
`16:38.24`	`lardman`	`and also someone to summarise the very long TMO threads`
`16:38.27`	`lardman`	`and ml ones`
`16:38.28`	`RST38h`	`Jaffa: maemo.org News section`
`16:38.31`	`Jaffa`	`And fish out the quality stuff from a thousand-long thread`
`16:38.38`	`RST38h`	`Jaffa: As opposed to the Planet subesection of News`
`16:38.59`	`Jaffa`	`RST38h: Slightly harder cos of the way that works (and would require the content to be entered into midgard, AIUI)`
`16:39.16`	`Jaffa`	`At least with Planet can do output however one wants and have it included.`
`16:39.19`	`RST38h`	`Jaffa: Well, that is something maemo.org team should work on`
`16:39.54`	`alterego`	`What will the format of this emag be?`
`16:40.11`	`RST38h`	`Jaffa: Also, do steal newlc's idea of color-coding articles`
`16:40.16`	`lcuk`	`konttori, ping`
`16:40.38`	`SpeedEvil`	`RST38h: but...`
`16:40.39`	`RST38h`	`Jaffa: According to the thematics (i.e. news, review, developer stuff, etc)`
`16:40.49`	`SpeedEvil`	`RST38h: that'll lead to scrolling past reams and reams of white on white posts.`
`16:41.02`	`RST38h`	`why?`
`16:41.25`	`SpeedEvil`	`oh - blogs - I thought you were talking about highlighting talk threads`
`16:43.21`	`Jaffa`	`alterego: HTML, lightweight. Downloadable or readable. Other formats in future, perhaps.`
`16:45.18`	`RST38h`	`Jaffa: By "lightweight" you do not mean current maemo.org and tmi themes, I hope?`
`16:45.24`	`RST38h`	`s/tmi/tmo`
`16:45.35`	`lcuk`	`i like the slashdot approach to forums, having moderation and filtering to just show the 5 decent comments on a thread`
`16:45.55`	`RST38h`	`On ./, you are really better off not seeing any comments...`
`16:46.12`	`RST38h`	`Keeps your faith in humanity safe, you know`
`16:46.47`	`alterego`	`Heh`
`16:46.57`	`alterego`	`tmo is starting to get that feel too now though :P`
`16:47.15`	`alterego`	`Who's going to pay for the therapy of the tmo monitors?`
`16:47.23`	`*** join/#maemo rdorsch (n=rd@p5B2035C9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`16:47.24`	`lardman`	`lol`
`16:47.42`	`qwerty12_N900`	`nominates alterego`
`16:47.48`	`alterego`	`Hah`
`16:47.57`	`lardman`	`I find one-touch-band-and-removing people stops me needing therapy ;)`
`16:48.03`	`lardman`	`s/band/ban`
`16:48.39`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Use that power with less discretion, please.`
`16:49.01`	`lardman`	`:)`
`16:49.16`	`SpeedEvil`	`'This one time, at ban camp'`
`16:49.31`	`alterego`	`Hah`
`16:49.44`	`suihkulokki`	`does talk have moderators?`
`16:49.45`	`GeneralAntilles`	`is personally in favor of applying the beatdown to people who troll about "Fixed in Fremantle" in otherwise productive threads.`
`16:49.51`	`GeneralAntilles`	`suihkulokki, yes.`
`16:49.56`	`lardman`	`perhaps more MW4 first to get the right mindset`
`16:50.24`	`GeneralAntilles`	`suihkulokki, problem is that historically speaking there was only one and he was never very proactive in his application of moderation.`
`16:50.27`	`alterego`	`I do wonder about maemo "news" because I don't seem to find much "news" anywhere.`
`16:50.33`	`GeneralAntilles`	`suihkulokki, so it's a lot more lenient than many forums.`
`16:50.39`	`alterego`	`I think the only news I see is generally new SDK releases.`
`16:50.43`	`lbt`	`ooh, plug N900 into usb, select mass-storage. Instant reboot`
`16:50.46`	`alterego`	`IS there some resource I'm missing?`
`16:50.51`	`GeneralAntilles`	`alterego, Planet?`
`16:51.09`	`alterego`	`GeneralAntilles: bug fixes and random stuff about firefox mobile? :P`
`16:51.10`	`suihkulokki`	`GeneralAntilles: would certainly need more moderation imho :P`
`16:51.18`	`qwerty12_N900`	`Even Planet is going down the shitter with those stupid Twitter feeds`
`16:51.45`	`alterego`	`We need tree.maemo.org for twitter :P`
`16:51.58`	`GeneralAntilles`	`suihkulokki, I agree, but every time somebody tries to do something productive or useful on Talk the conspiracy theorists come swarming out screaming about the maemo.org cabal and Nokia's plan to steal their pocket lint.`
`16:52.10`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Yeah, that Firefox feed really needs fixing.`
`16:52.41`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I think we just need to let everybody have their own domain where they only see the things they want to see.`
`16:53.12`	`GeneralAntilles`	`qwerty12.maemo.org only shows questionable material.`
`16:53.45`	`qwerty12_N900`	`Where can I sign up?`
`16:53.46`	`alterego`	`Heh`
`16:53.48`	`SpeedEvil`	`screams 'You can take our lives, but you can never take our lint!'`
`16:54.19`	`lbt`	`hmm, how about modding up/down? But only listening to mods from people you 'trust'`
`16:54.39`	`SpeedEvil`	`Web of trust type thingy`
`16:54.41`	`lbt`	`mods SpeedEvil down`
`16:54.47`	`lbt`	`no-one cares`
`16:54.51`	`lbt`	`:)`
`16:54.54`	`lbt`	`kinda`
`16:54.58`	`lbt`	`more social`
`16:55.00`	`lcukn900`	`slashdot`
`16:55.11`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Ugh`
`16:55.25`	`lbt`	`yeah, but there are some people on tmo who I'd trust to mod down the morons`
`16:55.28`	`SpeedEvil`	`lbt: sort of amazon 'recommendations' - but weighting mods against that`
`16:55.43`	`lbt`	`just slashdot I think`
`16:55.53`	`SpeedEvil`	`So rating a post down weights all the other mods that voted it down up for your personal weight`
`16:55.57`	`lbt`	`but only factoring in certain people's votes`
`16:56.03`	`lbt`	`no`
`16:56.06`	`alterego`	`I've got an even better idea, we can all look through the planet aggregation list and choose the sources that are actually useful :P`
`16:56.16`	`alterego`	`Then include them in our own RSS readers :P`
`16:56.25`	`lbt`	`just if I mod it down and you listen to me then you see it as -1. Otherwise you don't`
`16:56.40`	`lbt`	`alterego: I'm thinking about tmo`
`16:56.41`	`lcukn900`	`lbt i want wikipedia where i can change the bias. i want an article on manchester united from a man u fan`
`16:56.50`	`alterego`	`Ah`
`16:56.56`	`suihkulokki`	`alterego: click on the opml lnink to get the list of rss feeds in your rss app - then just remove anyones you don't want =)`
`16:56.59`	`lcukn900`	`same idea as you are thinking`
`16:57.01`	`alterego`	`I don't use tmo much, so I Don't really know.`
`16:57.12`	`alterego`	`suihkulokki: yeah, that's an even better idea :P`
`16:57.12`	`lcukn900`	`allow everyone to vote`
`16:57.22`	`lcukn900`	`but only account for friends votes`
`16:57.22`	`lbt`	`thinks tmo would be a wasteland after I got through with it ;D`
`16:57.29`	`lbt`	`lcukn900: yes`
`16:57.45`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lbt, sounds like a better plan.`
`16:57.45`	`lardman`	`hmm, so shall I unpack and then repack my H/VBoxes when the orientation changes?`
`16:57.54`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lbt, hasten it's demise so we can move on completely.`
`16:57.58`	`lbt`	`heh`
`16:58.00`	`alterego`	`I think we should forget about negative voting and just have positive.`
`16:58.15`	`suihkulokki`	`I think twitter feeds are not really useul on planet`
`16:58.18`	`GeneralAntilles`	`We should just troll relentlessly until useful content stops appearing.`
`16:58.20`	`lbt`	`alterego: nah, I want to positively ignore some posts`
`16:58.23`	`alterego`	`That's the problem, tmo is full of crap, if we had thumbs up and a section of tmo that showed the most "interesting" threads, we'd be fine.`
`16:58.26`	`qwerty12_N900`	`suihkulokki: Amen`
`16:58.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`suihkulokki, most certainly.`
`16:58.34`	`lbt`	`suihkulokki: +1`
`16:58.50`	`lardman`	`we should make gaining an account more difficult...`
`16:58.56`	`alterego`	`Yeah, lets have tree.maemo.org`
`16:58.56`	`lardman`	`perhaps a karma score of >200 or so?`
`16:59.07`	`alterego`	`lardman: not a bad idea.`
`16:59.14`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lardman, you have to answer a battery of historical questions about Maemo.`
`16:59.15`	`t_s_o`	`another september that never ends?`
`16:59.24`	`*** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@80.32.146.69)`
`16:59.39`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Which would disqualify jokers like that javispedro.`
`16:59.40`	`GeneralAntilles`	`ohdamn`
`16:59.42`	`lbt`	`you know, the +/- votes wouldn't even need to be visible`
`17:00.02`	`javispedro`	`poses and smiles`
`17:00.13`	`lbt`	`heh, how appropriate`
`17:00.16`	`t_s_o`	`obscure and useful or famous and useless...`
`17:00.42`	`suihkulokki`	`GeneralAntilles: as a community member can you mail that to planet @Â maemo.org :)`
`17:00.45`	`lbt`	`nervously watches a raid rebuild...`
`17:00.59`	`suihkulokki`	`delegates`
`17:01.03`	`*** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@cs181192153.pp.htv.fi)`
`17:01.11`	`GeneralAntilles`	`suihkulokki, what, removing the twitter feeds?`
`17:01.18`	`suihkulokki`	`ya`
`17:01.28`	`alterego`	`Council member, we're all community members :P`
`17:01.30`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Somebody hit X-Fade once he gets back from vacation.`
`17:01.37`	`lcukn900`	`or change the layout`
`17:01.43`	`GeneralAntilles`	`alterego, nothing of the sort.`
`17:01.44`	`Jaffa`	`alterego: GeneralAntilles ain't on the council anymore`
`17:01.44`	`lcukn900`	`i like a sidebar of twits`
`17:01.54`	`lcukn900`	`but not main articles`
`17:02.02`	`alterego`	`Oh`
`17:02.16`	`alterego`	`Did you get too many -10's GeneralAntilles ? :)`
`17:02.19`	`Jaffa`	`Does Vimeo let you do any editing when you upload stuff?`
`17:02.23`	`GeneralAntilles`	`alterego, https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_Council`
`17:02.28`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I didn't run for a 3rd term.`
`17:02.43`	`qwerty12_N900`	`Yeah, we all booed him off`
`17:02.49`	`Stskeepz`	`ponders if the price drops are due to increased demand`
`17:03.02`	`alterego`	`Yeah, I thought you'd still be in the Council, just not the leader?`
`17:03.19`	`GeneralAntilles`	`alterego, that was my second term. ;)`
`17:03.26`	`GeneralAntilles`	`A year was plenty long for me.`
`17:03.50`	`lbt`	`wonders about trying again to get contacts of his N900`
`17:04.01`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lbt, vCards?`
`17:04.06`	`lbt`	`?`
`17:04.11`	`lbt`	`go on...`
`17:04.12`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lbt, export some?`
`17:04.31`	`lardman`	`or I can point you at some code that will list the contacts for you`
`17:04.32`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Should be a menu option.`
`17:04.42`	`lbt`	`hmm, yes`
`17:04.59`	`lbt`	`I wanted syncml... but at this point...`
`17:05.05`	`lbt`	`GeneralAntilles: thanks :)`
`17:05.10`	`crashanddie__`	`lol`
`17:05.17`	`*** join/#maemo goodwill (n=Good@pool-71-165-54-172.lsanca.btas.verizon.net)`
`17:05.25`	`lbt`	`lardman: yes please... I can then convert to ldif I guess`
`17:05.33`	`lardman`	`ok, hang on a tick`
`17:05.34`	`crashanddie__`	`fr.emploi.* (french newsgroups regarding jobs and recruiting) are dead, no new posts since april... The crunch is going strong!`
`17:05.53`	`goodwill`	`pardon me, for this stupid question: When talking about unlocked phones what does, "Carrier unlock", "international retail unlock" and "US retail unlock means"`
`17:06.22`	`Stskeeps`	`does N900 even support simlock?`
`17:06.23`	`Stskeeps`	`:P`
`17:06.38`	`alterego`	`goodwill: not really the place to ask.`
`17:06.39`	`goodwill`	`the ones I see on newegg says US carrier unlock`
`17:06.40`	`*** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk)`
`17:06.43`	`alterego`	`try ##gsm`
`17:07.01`	`qwerty12_N900`	`Stskeeps: If not this one, we know the device running Maemo 6 will =)`
`17:07.02`	`GeneralAntilles`	`goodwill, buy an N900, call it a day.`
`17:07.06`	`alterego`	`goodwill: it probably just means it'll work on any provider in he USA`
`17:07.12`	`*** join/#maemo DeadDodo (n=dodobird@adsl-76-192-49-182.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`17:07.13`	`alterego`	`As it's a USA model N900 which is unlockedw`
`17:07.15`	`*** join/#maemo penguinbait (n=mlewis@Maemo/community/council/penguinbait)`
`17:07.17`	`lardman`	`http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/emerillon/test_abook.c`
`17:07.23`	`goodwill`	`alterego: only ask cause I am looking at the n900 and trying to figure out whether I'll be able to use it internationally`
`17:07.30`	`GeneralAntilles`	`alterego, minus CDMA and iDEN providers.`
`17:07.34`	`*** join/#maemo yigal (n=yigal@cpe-76-93-215-64.hawaii.res.rr.com)`
`17:07.37`	`lbt`	`lardman: ta`
`17:07.39`	`SpeedEvil`	`goodwill: yes.`
`17:07.41`	`lardman`	`np`
`17:07.50`	`SpeedEvil`	`goodwill: all - at the moment - n900s are the same hardware`
`17:07.55`	`SpeedEvil`	`(well - modulo keyboard)`
`17:07.58`	`GeneralAntilles`	`^`
`17:07.59`	`goodwill`	`it says "US retail unlock" though`
`17:08.03`	`goodwill`	`sighs`
`17:08.13`	`lardman`	`is designed to just print out online- contacts, but has to iterate through all of them to work that out, etc`
`17:08.15`	`alterego`	`goodwill: all can be fixed with a software update.`
`17:08.16`	`SpeedEvil`	`And I don't think anyone is actually selling locked n900s yet`
`17:08.20`	`GeneralAntilles`	`goodwill, Newegg also claims Mozilla made the built-in browser and that it's Maemo's first mobile computer. ;)`
`17:08.36`	`GeneralAntilles`	`goodwill, Newegg likes to throw around random buzzwords`
`17:08.38`	`timeless_mbp`	`GeneralAntilles: did you contact newegg?`
`17:08.50`	`DeadDodo`	`NewEgg needs to do research for more then 20 seconds.`
`17:08.52`	`GeneralAntilles`	`timeless_mbp, haven't bothered trying to find a contact address yet.`
`17:09.02`	`DeadDodo`	`than* 20...`
`17:09.02`	`GeneralAntilles`	`than*`
`17:09.29`	`goodwill`	`I am still not sure where to get an n900 that is completely unlocked then`
`17:09.35`	`timeless_mbp`	`GeneralAntilles: hrm`
`17:09.37`	`timeless_mbp`	`http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16875205178`
`17:09.41`	`GeneralAntilles`	`goodwill, there are no locked N900s. :)`
`17:09.42`	`timeless_mbp`	`Maemo Browser powered by Mozilla technology`
`17:09.43`	`timeless_mbp`	`that's ok`
`17:09.46`	`timeless_mbp`	`which part am i looking for?`
`17:09.48`	`alterego`	`goodwill: they're all completely unlocked, were you not listening to what we were saying?`
`17:10.01`	`goodwill`	`alterego: alright`
`17:10.02`	`GeneralAntilles`	`timeless_mbp, one of the questions in the giveaway quiz.`
`17:10.07`	`timeless_mbp`	`oh`
`17:10.08`	`goodwill`	`thank you`
`17:10.09`	`timeless_mbp`	`nice`
`17:10.20`	`*** join/#maemo Erod (n=Juno@unaffiliated/erod)`
`17:10.36`	`DeadDodo`	`Giveaway quiz?`
`17:10.39`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://promotions.newegg.com/Sweepstakes/NokiaN900/index.html?cm_mmc=SNC-Facebook-_-na-_-na-_-na`
`17:10.41`	`alterego`	`Also, unless they say "N900, locked to vodafone" it's unlikely to be locked to anything, it should have been a bit more of a giveaway that they said it was "unlocked".`
`17:10.44`	`timeless_mbp`	`http://www.newegg.com/HelpInfo/OverView.aspx#ContactUsTab`
`17:10.48`	`timeless_mbp`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:10.48`	`timeless_mbp`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:10.54`	`GeneralAntilles`	`"Mozilla, the makers of Firefox, created an internet browser for the N900 that supports flash and video, so you can experience the web just like you do on your computer."`
`17:10.55`	`alterego`	`Though I can understand the confusing with "USA"`
`17:10.59`	`alterego`	`~confusion.l`
`17:11.13`	`pupnik_`	`is media player not playing youtube flvs a bug? or a mikssing feature?`
`17:11.20`	`pupnik_`	`missing`
`17:11.23`	`timeless_mbp`	`GeneralAntilles: not false actually`
`17:11.28`	`RST38h`	`pupnik: Depends`
`17:11.30`	`timeless_mbp`	`it doesn't say "created the browser`
`17:11.44`	`RST38h`	`pupnik: I would say it is a missing decoder, i.e. this is not a bug`
`17:11.50`	`pupnik_`	`k`
`17:11.56`	`Stskeeps`	`then again, i don't understand what's limiting n900 to be non-simlockable. i mean, all the celluar modem stuff is closed and in a diff chip..`
`17:11.59`	`alterego`	`timeless_mbp: well their ambiguous grammer is a different issue all together :P`
`17:12.09`	`Stskeeps`	`and you could probably lock on that level :P`
`17:12.29`	`alterego`	`Stskeeps, I believe locks _are_ done on that level.`
`17:12.34`	`*** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net)`
`17:12.41`	`timeless_mbp`	`i'm pretty sure i've translated strings for locked n900s`
`17:12.42`	`pupnik_`	`should i file a feature request to play back youtube flvs?`
`17:12.44`	`alterego`	`But how many operators do you know of that are selling the N900's right now?`
`17:12.57`	`timeless_mbp`	`alterego: there's one in england`
`17:13.04`	`alterego`	`timeless_mbp: really? Who?`
`17:13.04`	`timeless_mbp`	`other than that, i don't know of any`
`17:13.05`	`SpeedEvil`	`alterego: that's not an operator`
`17:13.09`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Indeed`
`17:13.37`	`SpeedEvil`	`alterego: it's a mobile phone store that applies the kickback they get from the network for a new connect to provide a phone.`
`17:13.39`	`RST38h`	`pupnik: Just call it properly: "Please, implement flv decoding plugin"`
`17:13.53`	`alterego`	`Heh`
`17:13.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`However - vodafone.ie have said they will carry it`
`17:14.03`	`*** join/#maemo claesbas2 (n=cnorin_c@c83-248-212-32.bredband.comhem.se)`
`17:14.05`	`alterego`	`Oh, like, car phone werehouse or something.`
`17:14.08`	`*** join/#maemo BabelO_ (n=fcr@lun34-2-82-238-28-28.fbx.proxad.net)`
`17:14.12`	`RST38h`	`DivX decoder is also missing and there have been multiple complaints about H.264 decoder completeness`
`17:14.23`	`qwerty12_N900`	`pupnik_: Installing zoutube will install gstreamer-flv, at least`
`17:14.24`	`alterego`	`Yeah, Vodafone have said they'd provide it, but not until next yeaer, and they really _love_ branding their scht.`
`17:14.42`	`RST38h`	`qwerty: Won't that fix pupnik's problem?`
`17:15.02`	`*** join/#maemo claesbas2_ (n=cnorin_c@c83-248-212-32.bredband.comhem.se)`
`17:15.05`	`qwerty12_N900`	`RST38h: Not sure if the Media player will start to list FLVs...`
`17:15.20`	`qwerty12_N900`	`But it should be able to play them if it does do so`
`17:15.37`	`RST38h`	`listing flvs is something tracker should do?`
`17:16.00`	`*** join/#maemo claesbas2__ (n=cnorin_c@c83-248-212-32.bredband.comhem.se)`
`17:16.01`	`RST38h`	`qwerty: Btw, is it at all possible to implement subtitles inside the current gst framework?`
`17:16.14`	`GeneralAntilles`	`My neighbor really loves practicing the clarinet.`
`17:16.18`	`RST38h`	`qwerty: I.e. without involving Nokia and preferably by using an existing component?`
`17:16.22`	`lbt`	`hmm, the contents of the zipfiles in a backup are interesting`
`17:16.36`	`alterego`	`RST38h: gstreamer has a plugin that'll render fonts`
`17:16.42`	`RST38h`	`lbt: If you want to change the address book this way, it does not work :(`
`17:16.49`	`qwerty12_N900`	`RST38h: zaheerm tried, but it requires being able to get the name of the currently playing file`
`17:16.50`	`lbt`	`ah`
`17:16.59`	`*** join/#maemo claesbas2___ (n=cnorin_c@c83-248-212-32.bredband.comhem.se)`
`17:16.59`	`SpeedEvil`	`https://forum.vodafone.ie/index.php?/topic/1140-nokia-n900/ - vodafone.ie`
`17:17.05`	`RST38h`	`lbt: If you find a way, PLEASE let me know`
`17:17.08`	`timeless_mbp`	`there's a comment in a vodafone.co.uk forum from someone at vodafone indicating they expected to have the n900`
`17:17.14`	`SpeedEvil`	`alterego: exactly`
`17:17.16`	`lbt`	`RST38h: nod`
`17:17.18`	`RST38h`	`has got a whole address book of phone numbers starting with 8-`
`17:17.28`	`RST38h`	`Need to change 'em to +7`
`17:17.34`	`timeless_mbp`	`+7 ??`
`17:17.51`	`timeless_mbp`	`russia?`
`17:18.04`	`*** join/#maemo claesbas2____ (n=cnorin_c@83.248.212.32)`
`17:18.22`	`*** join/#maemo ignacius (n=ignacius@144.Red-79-145-95.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)`
`17:19.55`	`*** join/#maemo DeadDodo (n=dodobird@adsl-76-192-49-182.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`17:19.56`	`lardman`	`if I place an HBox and a VBox into another box and only fill one, does the other take up no (screen) space?`
`17:20.59`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=onthegri@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12)`
`17:21.04`	`*** join/#maemo MrGoose1 (n=cache@5ac515c3.bb.sky.com)`
`17:21.25`	`lbt`	`lardman: depends on stretch`
`17:21.40`	`lbt`	`and thumb and border and...`
`17:21.51`	`lbt`	`but yes`
`17:22.48`	`SpeedEvil`	`timeless_mbp: are you sure you're not thinking of .ie?`
`17:23.01`	`timeless_mbp`	`SpeedEvil: the forum hit i have is .co.uk`
`17:23.19`	`timeless_mbp`	`http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=35671`
`17:23.31`	`timeless_mbp`	`(bah, fish it out of google cache)`
`17:23.37`	`SpeedEvil`	`timeless_mbp: as soon as last week - the forum mods on .co.uk have been saying 'we can't say', look on 'coming soon' - where it doesn't appear`
`17:23.49`	`timeless_mbp`	`SpeedEvil: ah`
`17:26.27`	`Jaffa`	`RST38h: Export all contacts as vCard, regexp search & replace, re-import`
`17:26.41`	`Jaffa`	`did that to make sure all his numbers were internationalised`
`17:27.02`	`RST38h`	`Jaffa: Will it merge stuff automagically?`
`17:27.23`	`lbt`	`Jaffa: are you aware of any work to sort out syncing to Linux desktops?`
`17:27.35`	`Jaffa`	`lbt: I'm not aware of any`
`17:27.43`	`lardman`	`lbt: thanks`
`17:27.50`	`Jaffa`	`RST38h: No, but it should keep fidelity if you delete all and re-import.`
`17:27.58`	`Jaffa`	`RST38h: Take a backup to be sure, though ;-)`
`17:28.08`	`RST38h`	`qwerty: Well, it can probably show a file open dialog to select subtitle file on init?`
`17:28.25`	`RST38h`	`Jaffa: Hmmm...ok. Sounds mighty dangerous though`
`17:29.25`	`lardman`	`hmm, can I add the same widget to two boxes, and only display one of them?`
`17:29.35`	`lbt`	`no`
`17:29.37`	`qwerty12`	`RST38h: Not a bad idea... Now you've got me interested, lol`
`17:29.40`	`lardman`	`thought not`
`17:30.19`	`Jaffa`	`RST38h: Why? VCFs are a trivial text-based format.`
`17:30.21`	`lbt`	`you can move a widget between two locations`
`17:30.39`	`lardman`	`yep, was just trying to avoid repacking new boxes, etc`
`17:30.41`	`javispedro`	`oh, I would be interested in knowing how to get the name of the currently played filename from a gst demuxer`
`17:31.01`	`Shapeshifter`	`guys, I'm trying to add extras-devel to my SDK but I can't find how to do that. The extras-devel page doesn't even feature deb lines of the repo`
`17:31.21`	`qwerty12`	`Shapeshifter: http://repository.maemo.org.`
`17:31.40`	`javispedro`	`even though I think it goes against gst principles... since basically it could be not a file but a pipe, etc.`
`17:32.00`	`lbt`	`there was a discussion recently on the correct flashing order... eMMC then fiasco or vice-versa....`
`17:32.02`	`Shapeshifter`	`qwerty12: ahh thanks.`
`17:32.06`	`lbt`	`any conclusion?`
`17:34.10`	`Shapeshifter`	`mhh. but for some reason these 404 if I add them and then run apt-get update: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/unknown/free/binary-i386/Packages.gz 404 Not Found [IP: 213.155.157.9 80]`
`17:34.24`	`Shapeshifter`	`same for Err http://repository.maemo.org unknown/free Packages 404 Not Found [IP: 213.155.157.9 80]`
`17:35.00`	`Shapeshifter`	`mh I guess that should say fremantle`
`17:35.03`	`Shapeshifter`	`and not unknown >.>`
`17:35.52`	`Shapeshifter`	`nevermind, it's working now.`
`17:35.55`	`*** join/#maemo DeadDodo (n=dodobird@adsl-76-192-49-182.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`17:36.08`	`Shapeshifter`	`but at least in the SDK the .install link to add repos seems to be broken.`
`17:38.05`	`lardman`	`ok, so if I destroy a box, but it contains widgets to which I still hold a reference, is the box destroyed and the widgets remain ok?`
`17:38.26`	`lardman`	`hmm, must be a cleaner way to do this`
`17:38.33`	`RST38h`	`Jaffa: I know, just being afraid that some part of the process will scre up (as always)`
`17:38.53`	`pupnik_`	`wow, the new fresh faces at tmo`
`17:39.08`	`*** join/#maemo type_t2 (n=markwire@c-98-228-74-254.hsd1.il.comcast.net)`
`17:39.33`	`pupnik_`	`"what does dosbox emulate?" ... /me crawls towards his coffin`
`17:40.00`	`lardman`	`tell them "boxes"`
`17:40.18`	`pupnik_`	`dasbox`
`17:40.22`	`pupnik_`	`l m a o`
`17:41.08`	`type_t2`	`dos =microsoft operating (Disk Opera.. Sys..)< D O S`
`17:42.11`	`type_t2`	`the BALDER.img on a ubuntu .iso is an image of FreeDOS.`
`17:42.38`	`pupnik_`	`ah?`
`17:42.49`	`javispedro`	`and what's FreeDOS doing in a ubuntu iso?`
`17:42.54`	`*** join/#maemo Xisdibik (n=Xisdibik@c-24-5-197-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`17:42.56`	`type_t2`	`so can you use dosbox to work an Freedos floppy??`
`17:43.21`	`RST38h`	`pupnik: troll 'em!`
`17:43.21`	`pupnik_`	`i forgot. think it has own dos builtin`
`17:43.32`	`javispedro`	`dosbox has own dos builtin.`
`17:44.00`	`type_t2`	`they put it in i case you got to boot linux the Hard way using command line with dos ..Lin.. something.`
`17:44.03`	`pupnik_`	`lardman's offhand genius will be the foundation of my millions someday`
`17:44.14`	`lcuk`	`you know the charging animation when the device is switched off`
`17:44.15`	`pupnik_`	`das box`
`17:44.20`	`javispedro`	`in case you want to waste time I guess :)`
`17:44.21`	`lcuk`	`can i change that for amiga workbench`
`17:44.29`	`Shapeshifter`	`Mh. I can't find the sqlite3 bindings for python in the repos. Well, at least not in extras-devel. There is an extras repo for fremantle, isn't there? it's not on that page`
`17:45.10`	`lcuk`	`<lardman> tell them "boxes" hahahaha`
`17:45.20`	`lardman`	`so many levels ;)`
`17:45.27`	`type_t2`	`javispedro Do you want to waste time?..`
`17:45.53`	`timeless_mbp`	`RST38h: so... one of the fields is a creation date`
`17:45.53`	`javispedro`	`no, I would like to have more time to waste =)`
`17:46.02`	`timeless_mbp`	`afaiu the creation date is how merges are handled`
`17:46.08`	`lardman`	`has boxes, of the GTK persuasion, on the mind atm`
`17:46.11`	`timeless_mbp`	`two nodes w/ the same creation stamp are related`
`17:46.17`	`timeless_mbp`	`and the one w/ the newer modification stamp wins`
`17:46.21`	`timeless_mbp`	`(at least, in general)`
`17:46.22`	`*** join/#maemo Analias (n=analias@c-68-35-8-162.hsd1.nm.comcast.net)`
`17:47.28`	`timeless_mbp`	`frowns`
`17:47.34`	`timeless_mbp`	`um... GeneralAntilles ?`
`17:47.44`	`timeless_mbp`	`why does the package promotion system record my ip address?`
`17:47.50`	`timeless_mbp`	`if it records my name, surely that's sufficient`
`17:48.13`	`type_t2`	`nothing is sufficient when Data Mining.`
`17:48.32`	`timeless_mbp`	`but i don't want to be data mined`
`17:48.34`	`timeless_mbp`	`i am not a number!`
`17:48.40`	`timeless_mbp`	`are you number 2?`
`17:49.04`	`*** join/#maemo thomastim (n=n@87.221.231.116)`
`17:49.12`	`type_t2`	`check your wallet and there is Licence number a SS number ..`
`17:49.17`	`suihkulokki`	`I am not a number. I am a free man!`
`17:49.30`	`DeadDodo`	`You're number 3456032. Now shut up.`
`17:49.34`	`timeless_mbp`	`http://www.museum.tv/eotvsection.php?entrycode=prisonerthe`
`17:49.43`	`timeless_mbp`	`type_t2: i'm unlicensed :)`
`17:49.55`	`thomastim`	`juego de boxeo online http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html`
`17:49.56`	`*** part/#maemo thomastim (n=n@87.221.231.116)`
`17:50.00`	`*** join/#maemo hardaker (n=hardaker@mail.hardakers.net)`
`17:50.13`	`timeless_mbp`	`http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3456032.html UTILIZATION OF PROPANE RECOVERED FROM LIQUEFIED NATURAL GAS`
`17:50.27`	`suihkulokki`	`timeless_mbp: I only know that from sample iron maiden uses..`
`17:50.48`	`suihkulokki`	`fear of the dark \,./`
`17:50.58`	`timeless_mbp`	`suihkulokki: aww, we need to get you some episodes from the prinsoner`
`17:51.09`	`timeless_mbp`	`s/prinsoner/prisoner/`
`17:51.32`	`lardman`	`~lart Gnome for the taskbar locking up`
`17:51.32`	`infobot`	`slaps Gnome upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh for the taskbar locking up`
`17:52.22`	`*** join/#maemo letusgothen (n=letusgot@69-165-145-108.dsl.teksavvy.com)`
`17:52.22`	`Shapeshifter`	`is still looking for a way to get python sqlite3 bindings into his sdk :\|`
`17:52.26`	`DeadDodo`	`You think Gnome's bad now? Wait until Gnome 3.0. It'll be the KDE crapfest all over again.`
`17:53.05`	`lardman`	`will move to KDE then`
`17:53.22`	`javispedro`	`no, because Gnome3 is basically removing the taskbar, so at least it won't hang =)`
`17:53.22`	`lardman`	`I'll simply move with Nokia ;)`
`17:53.32`	`lardman`	`really, news to me`
`17:53.37`	`lardman`	`sounds... interesting`
`17:54.44`	`DeadDodo`	`By then, maybe KDE will be a decent desktop. It's getting better over time, although I don't think it'll ever quite get back to the level of the 3.x series.`
`17:55.18`	`javispedro`	`np, we'll switch to enlightment`
`17:55.19`	`RST38h`	`javis: what is coming instead of task bar?`
`17:55.37`	`RST38h`	`likes current gnome`
`17:55.53`	`DeadDodo`	`I'll link you a youtube vid of it, because it's sort of hard to explain. Imagine a virtual desktop switcher as a taskbar and launcher.`
`17:55.55`	`javispedro`	`RST38h: something weird with parts of it written in javascript`
`17:56.10`	`RST38h`	`ohmygod`
`17:56.15`	`javispedro`	`that's all /me needs to know about it =)`
`17:56.42`	`DeadDodo`	`Here's a nice vid of a recent build: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjoUlCbVHDE`
`17:56.49`	`*** join/#maemo realitygaps (n=realityg@p5B3FA888.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`17:57.07`	`RST38h`	`javis: desktop widgets?`
`17:57.30`	`DeadDodo`	`No desktop widgets that I've heard of, no.`
`17:57.44`	`DeadDodo`	`Oh wait, nevermind.`
`17:58.02`	`RST38h`	`http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2009/09/gnome-3-quick-visual-tour.html`
`17:58.02`	`javispedro`	`but I was thinking desktop widgets -- I think the transitions and rest of stuff is written in js`
`17:58.11`	`javispedro`	`s/I was/I wasn't`
`17:58.21`	`Jaffa`	`GNOME 3 seems to remind me of Maemo 5 :)`
`17:58.38`	`RST38h`	`yea`
`17:58.57`	`RST38h`	`wishes people stopped "improving" desktops`
`17:59.06`	`*** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@95.141.187.81.in-addr.arpa)`
`17:59.13`	`Jaffa`	`leaves RST38h with his Windows 1.0 and GEM...`
`17:59.21`	`javispedro`	`now move the global menu bar to the top and tada!`
`17:59.23`	`lcuk`	`wow gnome3 looks like liqbase`
`17:59.27`	`RST38h`	`Workbench was fine`
`17:59.33`	`DeadDodo`	`It reminds me of a bloody bad idea. There are rumors that Canonical's gonna hire people to fork Gnome because they think that Gnome 3 will kill their user base.`
`17:59.49`	`Jaffa`	`Not that I think GNOME 3's going in the right direction (or the wrong one); but it's good to push these thoughts out there.`
`18:00.01`	`Jaffa`	`guru meditates all over RST38h`
`18:00.11`	`javispedro`	`seems more usable than the first videos I saw about it though`
`18:00.19`	`javispedro`	`now all it's missing is a classical task bar in the bottom`
`18:00.27`	`RST38h`	`no, this Gnome3 thing does look like Maemo5`
`18:01.19`	`javispedro`	`add a classical task bar in the bottom and remove the useless sidebar and you have a usable system again :)`
`18:01.24`	`DeadDodo`	`javispedro: No task bars... the designers claim they're against it. All apps are launched by zooming out and dragging them to a desktop.`
`18:01.34`	`javispedro`	`a usable system that is mostly the same as gnome 2 :D`
`18:01.43`	`RST38h`	`javis: They seem to assume that an avregae user starts so many applications at once that he needs to SEARCH through them using a text box`
`18:01.52`	`*** join/#maemo archebyte (n=user@66.169-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)`
`18:02.04`	`javispedro`	`and that "recent documents" needs 25% of my screen state`
`18:02.13`	`luke-jr`	`Jaffa: the right direction for GNOME 3 is Qt4`
`18:02.29`	`javispedro`	`which is something I never used, and the only time I enter that menu is to clear it.`
`18:02.30`	`lbt`	`:D`
`18:02.42`	`RST38h`	`luke: Which is now owned by Nokia and not truly FOSS`
`18:02.54`	`luke-jr`	`RST38h: what?`
`18:02.54`	`*** join/#maemo fnordianslip (n=fnoridan@94-30-69-47.xdsl.murphx.net)`
`18:02.56`	`lcuk`	`and a different language`
`18:03.08`	`luke-jr`	`lcuk: GNOME has never had a standard language`
`18:03.09`	`lcuk`	`kde is goin great as it is`
`18:03.10`	`RST38h`	`javis: Well, at least I do not see The Paperclip in GNOME3`
`18:03.18`	`luke-jr`	`KDE is getting suckier and suckier`
`18:03.22`	`RST38h`	`javis: Unless the sucker is hiding somewhere`
`18:03.25`	`javispedro`	`RST38h: it's right there on the sidebar.`
`18:03.30`	`lcuk`	`but thats the qt version of gnome`
`18:03.31`	`javispedro`	`just wait for the slideshow plugin :)`
`18:03.39`	`luke-jr`	`lcuk: no, KDE has nothing to do with GNOME`
`18:03.50`	`luke-jr`	`KDE even predates GNOME`
`18:03.59`	`lcuk`	`ffs they do the same job`
`18:04.03`	`lcuk`	`you know what i mean`
`18:04.16`	`RST38h`	`"adly, Compiz and Gnome-Shell dont play nice, however this doesnt mean the end of eye-candy effects as gnome-Shell has slick animations all of its own thanks to Clutter! "`
`18:04.29`	`RST38h`	`(and what do I do if I have only got the IGD?)`
`18:04.56`	`javispedro`	`pray your brain gets used to the slow-mo desktop`
`18:05.12`	`RST38h`	`or downgrade to XFCE?`
`18:05.16`	`DeadDodo`	`I feel that the Linux desktop is suffering from a lack of good UI design. Current Gnome is okay, future Gnome looks bad, KDE isn't very good.`
`18:05.32`	`lcuk`	`or stick with what you have/use an upgraded fork as discussed`
`18:06.01`	`javispedro`	`you think everytime you change the desktop metaphor you gain new users. I see everytime someone changes the desktop metaphor they lose users.`
`18:06.10`	`lardman`	`hmm, I now have an app where none of my widgets appear in portrait mode, and all come back for landscape`
`18:06.38`	`javispedro`	`well, save for Apple. they just put Jobs on a show and Him'll take care of even selling something as .... as the Dock!`
`18:06.40`	`RST38h`	`lardman: some container is acting wrong?`
`18:06.57`	`RST38h`	`Apple is different`
`18:07.24`	`lardman`	`I have and HBox which contains an HBox + a VBox, and I switch a pair of box widgets between those two`
`18:07.25`	`RST38h`	`Those cultists will applaud even when you give them tactile 3D UI made of cow turds`
`18:07.39`	`lardman`	`smello-vision`
`18:08.15`	`javispedro`	`someone ports Ogre -> the N900 can run GTA3`
`18:08.19`	`javispedro`	`sighs`
`18:08.47`	`lardman`	`do GTK widgets need to be destroyed or are they ref counted?`
`18:09.14`	`lbt`	`lardman: some containers take over management`
`18:09.41`	`lardman`	`e.g. I'm thinking of destroying a VBox and then placing the contents in an HBox on rotation, etc`
`18:09.55`	`RST38h`	`lardman: only the top one needs ot be`
`18:10.02`	`RST38h`	`the rest goes with it`
`18:10.11`	`lbt`	`you may want to move them and then destroy the top box`
`18:10.15`	`lardman`	`ah, so everything is destoryed underneath`
`18:10.19`	`lardman`	`ok`
`18:10.24`	`lbt`	`yes`
`18:11.05`	`Stskeeps`	`javispedro: ogre was ported to beagleboard, last i read`
`18:11.21`	`javispedro`	`there's now a port for the n900 in tmo`
`18:11.22`	`igagis`	`lardman: do you use GTKmm?`
`18:11.41`	`lardman`	`no`
`18:11.50`	`lardman`	`I try to avoid C++`
`18:11.55`	`lardman`	`is that C++?`
`18:12.09`	`igagis`	`lardman: yes, it's a C++ wrapper of GTK+`
`18:12.11`	`javispedro`	`yes, GTKmm is C++`
`18:13.08`	`Stskeeps`	`hmm`
`18:13.10`	`pupnik_`	`N900 scorched3d would be a challenge`
`18:13.17`	`Stskeeps`	`i wonder if qole could do Easy Diablo`
`18:13.27`	`Stskeeps`	`for running diablo-only apps on n900`
`18:13.27`	`Stskeeps`	`:P`
`18:15.23`	`javispedro`	`port diablo to n900!`
`18:15.48`	`Stskeeps`	`javispedro: it isn't impossible for sure.. :P`
`18:16.06`	`*** part/#maemo dabozz (n=benny@dslb-084-059-189-015.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`18:16.06`	`pupnik_`	`daimonin`
`18:16.41`	`pupnik_`	`gets u a nice mmorpg within n900 performance profile`
`18:16.48`	`RST38h`	`thought javispedro meant the game`
`18:17.22`	`javispedro`	`stabs RST for thinking javispedro had joined the ordes of tmo users`
`18:17.27`	`pupnik_`	`i would like a free dungeon keeper`
`18:17.40`	`pupnik_`	`defending a dungeon against heroes was fun`
`18:17.52`	`RST38h`	`Seriously though, Diablo-like UI on top of Angband would rule`
`18:18.07`	`crashanddie__`	`so what's the new firmware all about?`
`18:18.42`	`lardman`	`new firmware?`
`18:18.46`	`*** join/#maemo DeadDodo (n=dodobird@adsl-76-192-49-182.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`18:19.01`	`pupnik_`	`RST38h: did you know that the diablo devs were roguelike players? they consciously emulated the concept`
`18:20.13`	`crashanddie__`	`lardman, /topic`
`18:21.38`	`lardman`	`ah, few days old`
`18:23.26`	`*** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil)`
`18:24.08`	`RST38h`	`pupnik: Of course I did, it does not take too much to see that :)`
`18:24.09`	`Timpii`	`RST38h: there's Vulture's Eye and -Claw, but they're for Nethack and Slash'em`
`18:24.29`	`RST38h`	`pupnik: Of course, making it time-based rather than turn-based spoiled all the fun`
`18:24.42`	`RST38h`	`Timpii: Ahaaa, thanks, gonna check 'em`
`18:24.52`	`RST38h`	`can probably live with Nethack based one`
`18:25.27`	`RST38h`	`Looks like it is based on Falcon's Eye`
`18:25.42`	`lardman`	`argh, not getting on too well with adding and removing things from boxes`
`18:26.02`	`Timpii`	`yip, falcon's eye stagnated a bit so they forked it`
`18:26.20`	`RST38h`	`lardman: it is messy :(`
`18:26.28`	`RST38h`	`lardman: what is your widget hierarchy right now?`
`18:27.04`	`lardman`	`it's notebook( hbox( vbox, vbox) )`
`18:27.12`	`RST38h`	`javispedro, qwerty, pupnik: Take a look at this little gem: http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Vulture%27s`
`18:27.16`	`RST38h`	`Portable?`
`18:27.27`	`*** join/#maemo ferdna (n=ferdna@cpe-24-92-112-49.elp.res.rr.com)`
`18:27.28`	`lardman`	`and I want to make it swap between that and notebook( vbox( vbox, vbox) )`
`18:27.43`	`javispedro`	`SDL -- should be,`
`18:27.51`	`RST38h`	`lardman: can you switch to vbox(hbox,hbox) or maybe vbox(hbox(vbox,vbox))?`
`18:27.55`	`javispedro`	`dunnou about the performance.`
`18:28.02`	`qwerty12`	`RST38h: You must've "known" me for long enough now to know that Nethack isn't my cup of tea :)`
`18:28.09`	`RST38h`	`javis: Falcon's was pretty statis, performance show be ok`
`18:28.17`	`RST38h`	`qwerty: Not really =)`
`18:28.31`	`lardman`	`RST38h: the two vboxes need to either sit next to one another in landscape or ontop of one another in portrait`
`18:30.17`	`*** join/#maemo GuySoft (n=guysoft@93-173-161-80.bb.netvision.net.il)`
`18:31.01`	`RST38h`	`lardman: ok, wrap'em all into another vbox`
`18:31.04`	`pupnik_`	`i love whoever made the url click in N900 terminal`
`18:31.05`	`RST38h`	`see what happens`
`18:31.29`	`RST38h`	`lbt: still here?`
`18:31.38`	`pupnik_`	`tried porting vuktures eye in 2007 RST38h`
`18:31.51`	`lardman`	`RST38h: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m42f2fde2`
`18:31.54`	`pupnik_`	`my project dir had 200 subdirs`
`18:32.05`	`RST38h`	`pupnik: wow...why?`
`18:32.19`	`konttori`	`somebody should add anti-alias function to border pixels in http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Vultures_eye.png`
`18:32.24`	`pupnik_`	`thought it might be fun`
`18:32.32`	`konttori`	`anti-aliased transparency I mean`
`18:32.39`	`pupnik_`	`so true`
`18:33.15`	`RST38h`	`200 dirs though?`
`18:33.23`	`RST38h`	`salivates over that screenshot`
`18:33.38`	`*** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A172EA.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:33.47`	`RST38h`	`lardman: Ok, one thing you may want to do is stop bothering with reordering widgets in containers`
`18:34.11`	`lardman`	`how do you mean?`
`18:34.20`	`RST38h`	`lardman: just kill the whole tree and recreate it from scratch. In fact, make a single function create_ui(GtkWidget *Parent)`
`18:34.38`	`lardman`	`I need to keep the child widgets active ideally`
`18:34.46`	`RST38h`	`lardman: That kills all parent's children and create them all anew`
`18:34.48`	`lardman`	`otherwise I need to re-parse data, etc`
`18:35.01`	`RST38h`	`is that costly?`
`18:35.14`	`lardman`	`well gst setup cost amongst other things`
`18:35.18`	`lardman`	`so yeah`
`18:35.40`	`RST38h`	`hmmm...'cause I do not think anyone can guarantee you what happens when you rearrange existing widges in gtk+`
`18:35.50`	`lardman`	`I was hoping that just removing the widgets from the HBox\|VBox, and then setting the notepad entry to the new one would do the trick`
`18:36.57`	`RST38h`	`ok let us proceed on assumption that it is safe`
`18:37.06`	`RST38h`	`I do not see you removing hbox`
`18:37.22`	`RST38h`	`only removing two vboxes`
`18:38.22`	`lardman`	`yeah I remove two vboxes from what is either an hbox in landscape or a vbox in portrait`
`18:38.23`	`RST38h`	`oh, here is a possible problem`
`18:38.35`	`RST38h`	`who is the parent of your hbox and vbox?`
`18:38.56`	`*** join/#maemo crashanddie_ (n=crashand@cpc1-lewi1-0-0-cust192.bmly.cable.ntl.com)`
`18:39.10`	`lardman`	`either a VBox or an HBox, which is the notepad entry`
`18:39.21`	`RST38h`	`wait`
`18:39.25`	`lardman`	`appdata->tab[0]`
`18:39.36`	`RST38h`	`who is the parent of appdata->tab[0]?`
`18:39.46`	`lardman`	`a notepad`
`18:39.51`	`_\|Nix\|_`	`Is the fremantle-extras-devel buildbot building?`
`18:39.59`	`RST38h`	`All right. So the notepad owns both hbox and vbox at any given time?`
`18:40.09`	`lardman`	`appdata owns all the entries`
`18:40.22`	`lardman`	`ah, perhaps I need to tell GTK that?`
`18:40.25`	`_\|Nix\|_`	`I've been waiting for, like, an hour for some resuts on Pidgin ...`
`18:40.30`	`RST38h`	`appdata is just a struct, let us forget about it for now`
`18:40.39`	`RST38h`	`Nix: Somebody murdered it today`
`18:40.46`	`_\|Nix\|_`	`Great ...`
`18:40.55`	`RST38h`	`Other people complained`
`18:41.02`	`lardman`	`ok, so at any one time, one of the H\|VBox which will be contained in appdata->tab[0] is floating and empty`
`18:41.12`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N900 (n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12)`
`18:41.23`	`lardman`	`in fact which will be pointed to by appdata->tab[0]`
`18:41.26`	`RST38h`	`lardman: yea. but I think you need to remove the empty one from the notepad`
`18:41.49`	`RST38h`	`lardman: so that at any given time, the notepad only contains one widget, either vbox or hbox`
`18:41.49`	`lardman`	`hmm, I can't just overwrite the pointer and it will be updated?>`
`18:42.07`	`lardman`	`that code is there at the bottom, but it didn't do anything`
`18:42.08`	`RST38h`	`I don't think so :)`
`18:42.19`	`_\|Nix\|_`	`I don't actually need it, if I can figure out why Application Manager seems to ignore packages available from rivial repositories ...`
`18:42.27`	`_\|Nix\|_`	`trivial, even ...`
`18:42.29`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@95.118.124.24.cm.sunflower.com)`
`18:42.50`	`lardman`	`RST38h: my other thought was for appdata->tab[0] to be a static box, and I can then place my container V\|HBox in it`
`18:42.53`	`RST38h`	`Nix: care to quote the repo config?`
`18:42.56`	`_\|Nix\|_`	`I have one at deb http://192.168.1.33 ./ and it doesn't pick up the new version of Pidgin ...`
`18:43.27`	`_\|Nix\|_`	`... yet apt-get upgrade picks up the updates, and apt-cache policy also sees the newer package.`
`18:43.35`	`RST38h`	`Repo is probably set up wrongly...But I am not an expert on repos unfortunately :(`
`18:43.36`	`lardman`	`can I create a GTKBox? It's not just there to be subclassed?`
`18:43.38`	`Macer`	`what are the pptp ports?`
`18:43.47`	`lbt`	`RST38h: back now`
`18:43.47`	`Macer`	`i can't seem to get this damn vpn to connect anymore and don't know why`
`18:44.00`	`Macer`	`unless tmob has blocked the ports altogether to prevent vpning from a g1`
`18:44.02`	`RST38h`	`lardman: Ok, the appdata thing is completely bogus`
`18:44.15`	`_\|Nix\|_`	`RST38h: It's a really simple setup ... a directory full of .deb files plus a Packages file listing them ...`
`18:44.22`	`Stskeeps`	`Macer: heh, probably`
`18:44.29`	`*** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein)`
`18:44.33`	`RST38h`	`lardman: it carries no meaning other than let you "freeze" it in the rarely used Nokia's app free process (when it gets out of memory)`
`18:44.36`	`_\|Nix\|_`	`I'm mystified as to why HAM ignores the updates available therein ...`
`18:44.37`	`Macer`	`Stskeeps: you busy now? was wondering if you could test teh vpn for me`
`18:44.57`	`Stskeeps`	`Macer: very slow at getting into new things at this exact moment`
`18:44.59`	`lardman`	`RST38h: for me appdata is a global which contains all of the data needed by the app`
`18:45.00`	`RST38h`	`lbt: Will a link to the page with documentation from the Gtk-friendly About box be sufficient?`
`18:45.11`	`RST38h`	`lbt: In terms of cdocumenting MG and my other apps?`
`18:45.17`	`RST38h`	`lardman: Exactly`
`18:45.19`	`Macer`	`damn. ok`
`18:45.21`	`lbt`	`active link would be great...`
`18:45.48`	`RST38h`	`lardman: The reason why this data is not just a bunch of global vars is to let Maemo take the whoel appdata and save it to disk, afaik`
`18:45.50`	`lardman`	`RST38h: so if the fact that the struct holds a pointer to a gtk widget counts towards the ref counting that's fine`
`18:45.57`	`lardman`	`yeah`
`18:46.03`	`lardman`	`and to make it neat ;)`
`18:46.05`	`RST38h`	`lardman: But this has nothing to do with Gtk`
`18:46.18`	`Macer`	`damn thsi sucks`
`18:46.18`	`lardman`	`right, so I need to grab a reference`
`18:46.23`	`Macer`	`is there sshfs for xp? :)`
`18:46.41`	`Macer`	`since this vpn crap doesn't seem to be working all that well`
`18:46.47`	`RST38h`	`lardman: In Gtk, your hbox and vbox widgets are both children of another widget`
`18:46.51`	`lardman`	`Macer: yeah I think there is actually`
`18:46.59`	`Macer`	`hm. that would work`
`18:47.09`	`RST38h`	`lardman: So, by looking at your code snippet I see that you keep them both as children`
`18:47.13`	`lardman`	`Macer: but 3rd party, ping qwerty12_N900`
`18:47.22`	`RST38h`	`lardman: ANd my guess is that only one of them should be, the one you are currently using`
`18:47.36`	`RST38h`	`lbt: Then that is how I am going to do it.`
`18:47.39`	`Macer`	`heh`
`18:47.43`	`Macer`	`anybody up to test a vpn for me?`
`18:47.54`	`Macer`	`just to see if it's teh phone.. since that is the only external network i can get on right now`
`18:47.57`	`lardman`	`RST38h: well I'd like to swap between them, and as only one can contain the data, that's troublesome`
`18:47.58`	`Macer`	`it will connect locally`
`18:48.06`	`qwerty12_N900`	`Macer: There's Dokan, which mounts an SFTP server as a 10GB hard drive... Alternatives exist, but they aren't free`
`18:48.07`	`Macer`	`i don't thihnk i'd have to forward ports for pptp would i?`
`18:48.08`	`lbt`	`works for me - although a Help button would be better -and you have a spare slot`
`18:48.10`	`lardman`	`unless I place both in yet another box`
`18:48.28`	`RST38h`	`lbt: yea, but I may have a few other uses for it ;)`
`18:48.28`	`Macer`	`qwerty12_N900: can you test a vpn for me? :)`
`18:48.40`	`RST38h`	`In fact, I have got a plenty of spare slots now, check the latest versions`
`18:48.46`	`qwerty12_N900`	`Macer: Sorry, I don't have OpenVPN set up`
`18:48.49`	`Macer`	`doh`
`18:48.54`	`Macer`	`i need someoen with an xp box`
`18:48.54`	`qwerty12_N900`	`(Or installed, even)`
`18:48.56`	`lbt`	`Good - it was looking ..... full`
`18:48.57`	`Macer`	`i'm doing this in xp ;)`
`18:49.05`	`Macer`	`i just need to make sure someone can connect to the vpn`
`18:49.11`	`Macer`	`it was working before. i don't know wha thappened`
`18:49.13`	`RST38h`	`lardman: You won't be losing any data, as these boxes do not have to be destroyed, just disconnected from their current parent`
`18:49.18`	`Macer`	`i'm guessing a tmobile thing`
`18:49.23`	`Macer`	`i used to be able to tether and connect to it`
`18:49.38`	`lardman`	`RST38h: that's what I thought I was doing?`
`18:49.58`	`RST38h`	`lardman: right now, you are not switching vbox and hbox, just moving stuff from one to another`
`18:50.11`	`RST38h`	`lardman: which make sme conclude both hbox and vbox are children of the notebook`
`18:50.21`	`*** join/#maemo zchydem_work (n=mmt@vpn-pub2.hard.ware.fi)`
`18:50.22`	`lardman`	`swapping and altering the appdata->tab[0]`
`18:50.36`	`RST38h`	`altering tab[0] does not do a thing, remember, that is YOUR OWN struct :)`
`18:50.36`	`lardman`	`so that it just points to one of them`
`18:50.38`	`*** join/#maemo iDialekt (n=idialekt@166.205.131.17)`
`18:50.47`	`lardman`	`ah crap`
`18:50.50`	`lardman`	`of course`
`18:50.55`	`lardman`	`though.....`
`18:51.02`	`lardman`	`no`
`18:53.17`	`doc\|home`	`anyone know if it's possible to have the n900 set up as a wireless AP?`
`18:53.38`	`doc\|home`	`would be nice to have an ipod touch, for example, connect to the internet via the n900`
`18:54.19`	`wao`	`well, it should work`
`18:54.23`	`RST38h`	`why even use an ipod touch?`
`18:54.24`	`wao`	`but how..`
`18:54.44`	`doc\|home`	`RST38h: some apps on the ipod that aren't on the n900`
`18:55.36`	`RST38h`	`and you are willing to carry two gadgets that do the same thing a bit differently?`
`18:56.02`	`qwerty12_N900`	`Well, one of 'em can phone...`
`18:56.36`	`RST38h`	`...and play video without reencoding...`
`18:56.42`	`RST38h`	`...and has a keyboard...`
`18:56.55`	`RST38h`	`...and a decent resolution display...`
`18:57.02`	`*** join/#maemo fragment (i=fragment@hedelmae.fi)`
`18:57.27`	`qwerty12_N900`	`Let me guess: You're not talking about the iPod Touch?`
`18:57.29`	`*** join/#maemo crashanddie__ (n=crashand@host86-156-54-41.range86-156.btcentralplus.com)`
`18:57.40`	`Macer`	`welp`
`18:57.43`	`RST38h`	`cackles`
`18:57.45`	`Macer`	`let me try otu this dokan crap :)`
`18:58.03`	`doc\|home`	`RST38h: yes`
`18:58.40`	`_\|Nix\|_`	`I had to turn on red-pill-mode and turn off "Ignore Packages From Wrong Domains" to see updates from that repo.`
`19:01.09`	`RST38h`	`So, no more repositories outside of maemo.org???`
`19:01.32`	`javispedro`	`that was in diablo too.`
`19:02.08`	`javispedro`	`see file /etc/hildon-application-manager-domains/`
`19:02.28`	`*** join/#maemo Milhouse (n=irc_milh@dsl-217-155-26-150.zen.co.uk)`
`19:03.54`	`lardman`	`RST38h: ah, working`
`19:04.26`	`lardman`	`RST38h: and was before I posted the code too, I was just confused by the left-overs on my gst output window not being updated`
`19:04.26`	`*** join/#maemo MuJ (n=muj@romeo-16.srv.hosting.fi)`
`19:04.28`	`lardman`	`doh!`
`19:04.36`	`lardman`	`RST38h: but thanks for the help`
`19:05.03`	`mza`	`Will the calendar support iCal invites?`
`19:05.16`	`mza`	`the SDK says unknown calendar file`
`19:05.25`	`mza`	`when opening the attachment from mail`
`19:06.09`	`Jaffa`	`Now krisse's chiming in on the "MWN encroaches on our territory" meme. I'm resisting saying "perhaps if you weren't saying all the same thing and actually did the work I'm suggesting, I wouldn't need to suggest it".`
`19:06.30`	`RST38h`	`lardman: eh!`
`19:06.44`	`RST38h`	`Jaffa: He has got a territory?`
`19:07.00`	`qwerty12_N900`	`RST38h: allaboutmaemo`
`19:07.11`	`Jaffa`	`s/He/She/?`
`19:07.31`	`javispedro`	`but isn't the idea of MWN more "lower level" than _any_ maemo fansite?`
`19:07.32`	`RST38h`	`Jaffa: I have never seen Krisse IRL, still assuming He`
`19:08.09`	`RST38h`	`The name looked male, although who am I to guess Finnish names?`
`19:08.22`	`*** join/#maemo bigbrovar (n=bigbrova@83.229.6.19)`
`19:08.53`	`ShadowJK`	`what's mwn?`
`19:09.03`	`*** join/#maemo wnd (n=wnd@katei.fi)`
`19:09.15`	`RST38h`	`Jaffa's proposed news site`
`19:09.26`	`ShadowJK`	`RST38h, "Krisse" sounds a bit unigender to me`
`19:09.38`	`ShadowJK`	`but i'd probably assume female`
`19:09.41`	`RST38h`	`ShadowJK: there is a real name, a moment`
`19:09.58`	`ShadowJK`	`krisse can be a real name too :-)`
`19:10.14`	`RST38h`	`yea`
`19:10.42`	`RST38h`	`But it is ...what do you call it? a short abbreviation of a full name, isn't it?`
`19:10.48`	`lardman`	`is there an easy way to get a gtk widget such as a drawing_area to redraw itself?`
`19:10.55`	`ShadowJK`	`RST38h, something like that`
`19:10.58`	`qwerty12_N900`	`Krisse Juorunen`
`19:11.03`	`RST38h`	`_update()?`
`19:11.06`	`derf`	`Easier than what?`
`19:11.08`	`RST38h`	`qwerty: yea!`
`19:11.23`	`qwerty12_N900`	`In related news, I should be recieving my cyberstalking license soon`
`19:11.28`	`lardman`	`ah gdk_window_invalidate_rect()`
`19:12.04`	`*** join/#maemo Jiten (n=blight@nbl172.fotokone.fi)`
`19:12.12`	`RST38h`	`qwerty: No until you start guessing people postal addresses by their nicks!`
`19:12.15`	`ShadowJK`	`wonders if that name is real`
`19:12.21`	`derf`	`lardman: gtk_widget_queue_draw().`
`19:12.39`	`lardman`	`ah, cool, thanks`
`19:12.50`	`qwerty12_N900`	`ShadowJK: It sounds Finnish enough =)`
`19:12.53`	`qwerty12_N900`	`hides`
`19:13.39`	`ShadowJK`	`Yes, but morphing normal words into names is easy in finnish :)`
`19:14.52`	`Macer`	`blah. this is starting to drive me nuts`
`19:15.00`	`Macer`	`can anybody here try to connect to a vpn for me?`
`19:15.33`	`Macer`	`it seems to connect and tries to verify the username/pw then loses it :(`
`19:16.13`	`Macer`	`going to have to do something drastic`
`19:16.44`	`RST38h`	`like....stop trying to run it? =)`
`19:16.58`	`lcuk`	`does anyone know how i would save a sequence of yuv frames (in memory) into an avi perhaps using compression`
`19:17.08`	`lcuk`	`can gstreamer cope with this kind of thing?`
`19:18.23`	`*** join/#maemo b-man17 (n=b-man17@pool-98-115-74-139.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net)`
`19:19.26`	`*** join/#maemo wnd (n=wnd@katei.fi)`
`19:19.52`	`luke-jr`	`lcuk: I have a script for that`
`19:20.18`	`*** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian)`
`19:20.40`	`lcuk`	`luke-jr, mind digging it out?`
`19:20.46`	`sijk`	`Jaffa: Krisse is a Finnish female name, either real name or nick name for Kristiina`
`19:20.55`	`RST38h`	`Ahha!`
`19:21.13`	`RST38h`	`So, assuming Kristie from now on`
`19:22.01`	`*** join/#maemo crashanddie (n=crashand@SecuraBit/listener/crashanddie)`
`19:22.48`	`luke-jr`	`lcuk: \| yuvtoppm ... \| ppmtoy4m ... \| mpeg2enc ...`
`19:22.53`	`luke-jr`	`lcuk: tweak as desired`
`19:23.26`	`RST38h`	`And, btw, mpeg is lossy`
`19:23.42`	`crashanddie`	`Jaffa, http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8630/jaffaeatinganddrinkingg.jpg`
`19:23.47`	`lcuk`	`ponders a way to redirect live yuv screen out to a stream and running thos`
`19:23.53`	`lcuk`	`RST38h, dont really care`
`19:24.04`	`lcuk`	`thanks luke-jr`
`19:24.05`	`RST38h`	`crashanddie: Notice the characteristic red eyes`
`19:24.07`	`luke-jr`	`lcuk: for AVI, I just feed a PNG format into ffmpeg`
`19:24.15`	`RST38h`	`crashanddie: He is definitely looking for the next victim`
`19:24.16`	`crashanddie`	`Jaffa, I really don't want to trouble you, but that's not retouched, and with the red eyes, and the glowing drink, you could be in Merlin`
`19:24.29`	`*** join/#maemo iDialekt (n=idialekt@166.205.131.17)`
`19:25.33`	`crashanddie`	`RST38h, or maybe he was looking at one of the nokia chicks, or waitresses, or community chicks`
`19:25.36`	`*** join/#maemo jysky (i=jyri@distortionturtle.net)`
`19:25.39`	`crashanddie`	`cuz damn, the selection was fine`
`19:25.45`	`lcuk`	`luke-jr, compressing a new png image every frame takes > 0.5seconds`
`19:25.56`	`lcuk`	`i wanted realtime or nearly recording`
`19:26.07`	`lcuk`	`so flat yuv is simplest`
`19:26.10`	`RST38h`	`crash; Does their blood taste any different?`
`19:26.21`	`lcuk`	`crashanddie, you lie`
`19:26.25`	`luke-jr`	`lcuk: ffmpeg might take it`
`19:26.28`	`crashanddie`	`lcuk, I do?`
`19:26.29`	`lcuk`	`it was you that were eying them up`
`19:26.38`	`crashanddie`	`lcuk, no, I got phone numbers, different thing`
`19:26.44`	`luke-jr`	`lcuk: ffmpeg lists yuv4mpeg pipe format`
`19:26.48`	`crashanddie`	`And I had dinner with the waitress the other night`
`19:26.58`	`*** join/#maemo jani (i=rasjani@viuhka.fi)`
`19:27.02`	`crashanddie`	`well, if kebab after hours is considered as dinner`
`19:27.02`	`timeless_mbp`	`GeneralAntilles: so, http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/164/ is up`
`19:27.16`	`lcuk`	`lol`
`19:27.32`	`lcuk`	`luke-jr, cool ill have a dig see if i can push out frames`
`19:27.58`	`*** join/#maemo yuizy (n=yuizy@nefele.org)`
`19:28.01`	`*** join/#maemo zemm (i=zemm@underkround.net)`
`19:28.54`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: hey :D`
`19:29.00`	`Stskeeps`	`evening PaulFertser`
`19:29.04`	`Stskeeps`	`how is it going?`
`19:29.09`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: i came back with good news, not useless talks as usual :)`
`19:29.20`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: got Debian working after solving few issues.`
`19:29.22`	`*** join/#maemo pekuja (n=pekuja@blues.fixme.fi)`
`19:29.32`	`Stskeeps`	`cool`
`19:29.34`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: i hope you had a nice weekend too :)`
`19:29.44`	`Stskeeps`	`what was the issue?`
`19:30.18`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: really, when i argue it's not to offend or something, i really appreciate the work all you honest guys do :D`
`19:30.19`	`Stskeeps`	`PaulFertser: yeah yeah, let's stick to the technical stuff :)`
`19:30.28`	`*** join/#maemo Jiten (n=blight@nbl172.fotokone.fi)`
`19:30.44`	`*** join/#maemo MuJ (n=muj@romeo-16.srv.hosting.fi)`
`19:30.58`	`*** join/#maemo Macer_ (n=mace@rancorous.net)`
`19:31.33`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: the first and main issue is initramfs compatibility with 2.6.30 kernel. Major number for mmcblk0 was changed, which obviously produced strange and unexpected problems due to static device nodes in initramfs.`
`19:31.45`	`Stskeeps`	`right, we normally call it initfs`
`19:31.53`	`Stskeeps`	`and yes, that'd do some problems`
`19:32.26`	`luke-jr`	`PaulFertser: should have been expected`
`19:32.26`	`*** join/#maemo nasmajoh (n=nasmajoh@a91-154-120-165.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`19:32.29`	`luke-jr`	`nothing newsworthy there`
`19:32.32`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: very dire problems i'd say since it's kind of hard to debug without any good feedback whatsoever, i needed to compile a kernel with a framebuffer.`
`19:32.51`	`luke-jr`	`PaulFertser: you should be compiling your kernel w/ a fb anyway :P`
`19:33.00`	`luke-jr`	`PaulFertser: the evdev stuff changed too IIRC`
`19:33.07`	`luke-jr`	`so I bet you couldn't use arrow keys there`
`19:33.33`	`PaulFertser`	`luke-jr: hm, i hoped that the recent initfs is supposed to be compatible with the latest kernels. And yes, keys do not work but i didn't bother, just waited for timeout.`
`19:33.51`	`Stskeeps`	`PaulFertser: the good news is that initfs can be skipped.`
`19:34.03`	`Stskeeps`	`or modified.`
`19:34.03`	`luke-jr`	`PaulFertser: sure, depending on what you mean by "recent"`
`19:34.29`	`luke-jr`	`lp:~luke-jr/+junk/n8x0-bootmenu-autodetect-evdev <-- branch of bootmenu that fixes the keyboard issue`
`19:34.44`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: when i skipped initfs, i got the device powered off in a minute, so special care should be taken to start all those caring daemons.`
`19:34.46`	`luke-jr`	`lp:~luke-jr/+junk/n8x0-bootmenu-kexec <-- bootmenu w/ kexec support (untested)`
`19:34.50`	`*** part/#maemo nasmajoh (n=nasmajoh@a91-154-120-165.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`19:34.52`	`Stskeeps`	`PaulFertser: YES`
`19:34.54`	`Stskeeps`	`err, yes`
`19:35.07`	`Stskeeps`	`luke-jr: and why didn't you submit those patches? :P`
`19:35.18`	`luke-jr`	`Stskeeps: I pushed them to LP and told someone on IRC`
`19:35.21`	`luke-jr`	`that's how I submit stuff`
`19:35.22`	`luke-jr`	`<.<`
`19:35.26`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: another problem is that initfs assumes that initramfs is mounted rw which wasn't true for my kernel.`
`19:35.50`	`timeless_mbp`	`PaulFertser: isn't that more of a mistake in your kernel?`
`19:35.57`	`luke-jr`	`PaulFertser: err, initramfs is usually read-only`
`19:36.09`	`luke-jr`	`IIRC, most of the time it's squashfs`
`19:36.15`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: other minor issues with debian included a segfaulting plugin in ts.conf, slightly wrong xorg.conf i copied from somewhere, missing pointercal, stuff like that.`
`19:36.47`	`Stskeeps`	`PaulFertser: yeah, that initfs is mounted rw? that's new`
`19:36.50`	`*** join/#maemo Macer (n=mace@rancorous.net)`
`19:36.51`	`pupnik_`	`we should do some security auditing`
`19:36.54`	`PaulFertser`	`timeless_mbp: i assume, no. It's common to mount root ro by default. And on n810 it's not actually initramfs, rather a NAND partition with jffs2 on it.`
`19:36.59`	`luke-jr`	`PaulFertser: I suggest you read over our Gentoo stuff`
`19:37.13`	`*** join/#maemo Soder (n=Soder@c83-254-194-53.bredband.comhem.se)`
`19:37.19`	`timeless_mbp`	`frowns`
`19:37.27`	`timeless_mbp`	`i'm thirsty, but i'm not sure i'm hungry enough to get dinner`
`19:37.29`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: there's some "cp /mnt/new_root/linuxrc /tmp/linuxrc" which didn't work with initfs mounted ro.`
`19:37.30`	`konttori`	`nice, I just saw cali reviewing n900 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3z8YCzb0vI`
`19:37.32`	`timeless_mbp`	`but i have to decide _now_`
`19:37.41`	`Stskeeps`	`PaulFertser: ah, no, but /tmp is a tmpfs`
`19:37.43`	`luke-jr`	`PaulFertser: /tmp is tmpfs`
`19:37.47`	`PaulFertser`	`luke-jr: thanks for the suggestion`
`19:37.55`	`luke-jr`	`!`
`19:38.00`	`luke-jr`	`why is slonopotamus.org down :(`
`19:38.42`	`PaulFertser`	`luke-jr: well, that means it's probably in error either in my kernel (compiled without tmpfs) or lack of /etc/fstab on initfs for whatever reason or something like that. Anyway i do not see a reason to copy linuxrc from new_root anywhere, i think it can be started from there as well.`
`19:39.01`	`luke-jr`	`PaulFertser: I don't think initfs uses fstab`
`19:39.46`	`PaulFertser`	`luke-jr: i wasn't in the mood to investigate that thouroughly given i lack serial console anyway. I just modified the script to exec /mnt/new_root/linuxrc, it worked "like a charm".`
`19:42.33`	`PaulFertser`	`luke-jr: (branch with evdev fixes) thanks. As a sidenote i do not understand why anyone might want to use bazaar when there's git and mercurial ;)`
`19:43.38`	`luke-jr`	`PaulFertser: Bazaar is easier, since it fits with the historical RCS syntax for commands`
`19:43.50`	`luke-jr`	`also, git's support for subversion repositories is crap`
`19:44.39`	`yigal`	`hello`
`19:44.51`	`crashanddie`	`git needs proper windows integration`
`19:44.55`	`PaulFertser`	`luke-jr: i tried git-svn and liked it tbh. And in bazaar it's not obvious how to do something like "git format-patch" to send a plain-text readable e-mail etc. Git seems to be so much more flexible, you can use it any way you like.`
`19:44.58`	`Stskeeps`	`PaulFertser: so, what is not working in your kernel snapshot?`
`19:45.04`	`yigal`	`you guys probably already saw this, this is rediculous, http://maemoproject.com/`
`19:45.19`	`luke-jr`	`crashanddie: who uses Windows?`
`19:45.20`	`crashanddie`	`and git needs a web-based management system allowing the setup of new repos, that are available directly online`
`19:45.25`	`crashanddie`	`luke-jr, my whole company?`
`19:45.34`	`lcuk`	`yigal, perfectly normal day i nthe life of the n900`
`19:45.35`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: i'll know soon. For today my task was to start debian and now my friend is going to have some struggles on his own.`
`19:45.37`	`luke-jr`	`PaulFertser: git assumes you just want to import from subversion`
`19:45.40`	`lcuk`	`it generates it own stuff all the time`
`19:45.43`	`RST38h`	`yigal: Yes, we saw it. There are 250+ varieties of mushrooms in the Finland forests.`
`19:45.55`	`yigal`	`:)`
`19:45.59`	`luke-jr`	`PaulFertser: bzr diff <-- outputs a patch`
`19:46.03`	`PaulFertser`	`luke-jr: no, git-svn allows for comfortable two-way communication with svn. I used it myself.`
`19:46.14`	`ali1234`	`luke-jr: git diff <- outputs a patch`
`19:47.03`	`ali1234`	`that isn't quite the same thing as format-patch, which outputs a patch series, or git send-email which sends it to your favourite mailing list for reviewal`
`19:47.07`	`crashanddie`	`probably one of the best slashdot comments ever: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3291&cid=1395315`
`19:47.09`	`PaulFertser`	`luke-jr: yes, but what if you want to send an e-mail that has description, commit message and patch and is directly applicable with "git am"? I tried to do the same with bazaar but couldn't find a way, somewhere it's written that it's not desired function.`
`19:47.15`	`luke-jr`	`PaulFertser: bzr-svn is completely transparent; you almost never notice the other end is Subversion`
`19:47.25`	`PaulFertser`	`luke-jr: same with git-svn i think`
`19:47.45`	`luke-jr`	`PaulFertser: it's not desired, as such a method inherently loses a lot of info`
`19:47.47`	`Stskeeps`	`ponders idly that most people favour turning maemo.org into a non-profit foundation/company on http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/open_source_software_distributed_via_store-ovi-com/`
`19:48.02`	`Chani`	`:/`
`19:48.17`	`ali1234`	`luke-jr: with git it does not lose any info, because the patch files it outputs retain all the commit data`
`19:48.20`	`luke-jr`	`PaulFertser: better to send a repo to merge`
`19:48.36`	`Chani`	`don't leave your n900 charging overnight. this is hte second time I've gone to sleep with it nearly done charging, and woken up with it totally dead and refusing to charge`
`19:48.37`	`PaulFertser`	`luke-jr: yet in the "git world" this method works quite good, especially with the mailing lists.`
`19:48.45`	`luke-jr`	`ali1234: it doesn't`
`19:48.53`	`ali1234`	`luke-jr: what information does it lose?`
`19:48.59`	`luke-jr`	`ali1234: merge information?`
`19:49.10`	`ali1234`	`luke-jr: no, it doesn't`
`19:49.23`	`luke-jr`	`anyhow, git and bzr are both nice`
`19:49.32`	`luke-jr`	`git just has a learning curve, whereas bzr is more user friendly`
`19:49.42`	`ali1234`	`i will agree with that`
`19:49.52`	`ali1234`	`i didn't like git until about 3 months after i started using it`
`19:49.59`	`ali1234`	`then it clicked`
`19:50.15`	`RST38h`	`Chani: Never happened here`
`19:50.24`	`luke-jr`	`I'm disappointed that not even git supports proper cherry picking`
`19:50.53`	`ali1234`	`anyway, when you merge on git, you get a commit merge, unless there was no merge conflicts. that commit will appear in an exported patch series, preserving the merge info`
`19:51.08`	`ali1234`	`and, git cherry-pick has always worked fine for me`
`19:52.05`	`luke-jr`	`ali1234: when I had to cherry-pick with git, it didn't act like it saved ANY metainformation, except a revision ID in the log message`
`19:52.20`	`luke-jr`	`I can only imagine if I did merging now it would have issues`
`19:52.21`	`PaulFertser`	`So it seems bazaar wants to impose its understanding of the "best practicies" on you while git gives you complete freedom and transparency of operations.`
`19:52.38`	`javispedro`	`ponders why "Fixing Ovi" is not a solution in that brainstorm item.`
`19:52.59`	`luke-jr`	`PaulFertser: I use bzr-svn on a regular basis with my work`
`19:53.06`	`RST38h`	`Mhm. Poor krisse is really pissed now...`
`19:53.07`	`Chani`	`I do wish git would automatically record what branch something came from`
`19:53.08`	`PaulFertser`	`luke-jr: so did i with git-svn ;)`
`19:53.26`	`Stskeeps`	`javispedro: suggest it?`
`19:53.33`	`qwerty12_N900`	`RST38h: Oh noez! Will she storm off again?!`
`19:53.33`	`RST38h`	`What have you done to krisse, you elitist technopigs?!?`
`19:53.36`	`ShadowJK`	`Chani, it will just have to deal with it, i doubt n900 would last much beyond breakfast for me if it wasn't on charger during night`
`19:53.52`	`ali1234`	`Chani: the hash records that info: from the hash you can see where it came from with git show <hash>`
`19:54.11`	`RST38h`	`ponders on the proper translation for the word "ozalupit'"`
`19:54.31`	`Proteous`	`damp dragon`
`19:54.58`	`Chani`	`ali1234: really? hmm, i've dcommitted everything now so I can't check`
`19:55.32`	`ali1234`	`the only thing that really screws up the history is git rebase`
`19:55.53`	`Chani`	`git show on a git-svn commit just shows the log and the diff.`
`19:56.06`	`javispedro`	`Stskeeps: I will but then I will vote it down :)`
`19:56.40`	`Chani`	`yawns`
`19:56.56`	`JosefAssad`	`wonders how massive any maemo foundation liability coverage would be`
`19:57.16`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: is it considered important for Mer to fully support 2.6.30 kernel?`
`19:57.39`	`Stskeeps`	`PaulFertser: getting newer kernels is a plus for all inhabitations of the ecosystem.`
`19:57.50`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: it's obvious`
`19:57.58`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: but is it one of the "immediate targets"?`
`19:58.07`	`Stskeeps`	`PaulFertser: yes, i hate being stuck at this kernel version`
`19:58.20`	`luke-jr`	`Stskeeps: how goes gpsdriver code? :p`
`19:58.28`	`Stskeeps`	`luke-jr: ask me in december`
`19:58.33`	`luke-jr`	`ok`
`19:58.37`	`Stskeeps`	`right now we're not going to 2.6.30 cos some things are broken and i'm not sure WLAN driver supports PSM`
`19:58.38`	`Jaffa`	`crashanddie: I AM MEEEERRLIN. Stskeeps should bow before me.`
`19:58.40`	`Stskeeps`	`which is essential`
`20:00.00`	`crashanddie`	`Jaffa, i'd say we're starting to have some pretty compelling evidence that you're not human`
`20:00.00`	`crashanddie`	`http://www.flickr.com/photos/slauwers/4001322448/`
`20:00.10`	`*** join/#maemo Flyser (n=flyser@unaffiliated/flyser)`
`20:00.14`	`Jaffa`	`crashanddie: sub-human sounds about right.`
`20:00.32`	`crashanddie`	`bowing, transfer of scrolls, targeting unsuspecting victims, drinking liquid gold...`
`20:00.34`	`RST38h`	`un-human is the correct specification`
`20:00.51`	`RST38h`	`as in enemy to everything humans stand for =)`
`20:01.32`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: yep, the the power consumption that n810 shows with the stock kernel and maemo is just unbelievably impressive.`
`20:01.46`	`RST38h`	`you and the General, two enemies of the humankind...`
`20:02.13`	`pupnik_`	`:) PaulFertser you have comparisons?`
`20:02.39`	`alterego`	`qwerty12_N900: you about?`
`20:02.48`	`qwerty12_N900`	`alterego: yessir`
`20:02.58`	`PaulFertser`	`pupnik_: all other devices i know use suspend2ram, so it's not directly comparable with zero-clock and extensive PSM support all over the place in n810.`
`20:03.03`	`alterego`	`Do you need to do antything to let me be the maintainer of the ruby stuff?@`
`20:03.25`	`qwerty12_N900`	`alterego: I'd have thought a change of the name would be enough?`
`20:03.34`	`alterego`	`Maybe this stuff takes time.`
`20:03.44`	`alterego`	`No, there's someting in the promotion interface that keeps it.`
`20:03.56`	`*** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=CBabbage@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net)`
`20:04.21`	`alterego`	`I might ask whoever to clear ruby from all the repos so I can upload the stuff from scratch.`
`20:06.04`	`crashanddie`	`how about we don't put ruby in the repos?`
`20:06.08`	`crashanddie`	`Just delete it and blacklist it`
`20:06.14`	`alterego`	`Why?`
`20:06.19`	`alterego`	`What would that acheive?`
`20:06.26`	`crashanddie`	`NO RUBY`
`20:06.32`	`crashanddie`	`erhm`
`20:06.37`	`alterego`	`m'hmm`
`20:06.37`	`crashanddie`	`I just found my fake police ID card`
`20:06.49`	`*** join/#maemo digitalstimulus (n=digitals@cpe-071-077-144-145.nc.res.rr.com)`
`20:06.58`	`qwerty12_N900`	`crashanddie: From your stripping days? :p`
`20:07.06`	`crashanddie`	`qwerty12_N900, not really`
`20:07.18`	`crashanddie`	`qwerty12_N900, from working with the police (i won't say which one), for their smartcards`
`20:07.28`	`qwerty12_N900`	`Hehe`
`20:07.35`	`crashanddie`	`we had to do some tests, so we quickly designed some layout for the cards, took pictures, added info and printed`
`20:07.50`	`crashanddie`	`thing is, the layout is like 90% the same as what they're using now`
`20:08.02`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: wouldn't it be nice to have all the necessary daemons started from rootfs rather than from initfs? And also i'm afraid some of them are compiled for OABI.`
`20:08.35`	`crashanddie`	`I don't have the nice shiny 3d film on the card, nor the certificates, but still`
`20:08.54`	`Stskeeps`	`PaulFertser: nah, they're not`
`20:09.37`	`*** join/#maemo dabozz (n=benny@dslb-084-059-189-015.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`20:10.59`	`Stskeeps`	`PaulFertser: but they're built for uclibc`
`20:11.11`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: i think i saw some error about OABI during boot of initfs so i enabled OABI_COMPAT, i think i can run readelf on all initfs binaries when i get access to the device again.`
`20:11.30`	`Stskeeps`	`it's always good to support oabi i guess`
`20:11.51`	`*** join/#maemo Ufoeke (n=ufoeke@212.112.59.50)`
`20:12.11`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: why?`
`20:12.18`	`Ceron^`	`http://naurunappula.com/520667`
`20:12.32`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: to run obsolete binary-only stuff? i'm not going into this discussion again ;)`
`20:13.09`	`Stskeeps`	`PaulFertser: i think error may be from uclibc built with oabi support? dunno`
`20:13.25`	`alterego`	`grrr :(`
`20:15.06`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: i think always requiring initfs to start daemons is not exactly common way anyway and might be confusing for the newcomers.`
`20:15.24`	`Stskeeps`	`PaulFertser: you need tricks on these devices.`
`20:15.40`	`*** join/#maemo JoakimCarli (n=eeeeh@c83-252-242-250.bredband.comhem.se)`
`20:16.47`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: i think if you run the daemons early in the boot process when you start /sbin/init directly it'd be still ok.`
`20:16.55`	`Stskeeps`	`PaulFertser: that's what some do, yeah`
`20:17.02`	`Stskeeps`	`like a init=/linuxrc or something`
`20:19.59`	`pupnik_`	`the internet is just getting crippled right now`
`20:20.51`	`pupnik_`	`dude made a fielf`
`20:21.26`	`pupnik_`	`dude made a field-of-view patch for bioshock. they apparently got it removed from the net?`
`20:21.51`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: (/linuxrc) it's still too hackish imho, i think many embedded platforms run without additional scripts.`
`20:22.42`	`Stskeeps`	`PaulFertser: yes, but n8x0 isn't a typical one. either way, your port, your choice`
`20:23.49`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: i can't see what makes n8x0 that different from others. Most devices are equipped with a watchdog of some kind and require initialisation of other devices on boot.`
`20:26.40`	`PaulFertser`	`Can anyone please tell me how is internal SD card connected on n810? I'm wondering what kernel option should i enable for it to work.`
`20:27.05`	`alterego`	`Anyone here ever had to become a maintainer of a package that already had a maintainer in the maemo5 extras promotional interface?`
`20:27.32`	`alterego`	`I'm clicking on the "become maintainer" link but nothing seems to happen after I follow that process.`
`20:27.41`	`javispedro`	`oh, it worked for me a few weeks ago :P`
`20:27.56`	`alterego`	`javispedro: did the process take any time?`
`20:28.04`	`alterego`	`Or was it instantaneous?`
`20:28.09`	`RST38h`	`alterego: why not add your name to the maintainers line inside the package itself?`
`20:28.11`	`javispedro`	`instantaneous and without confirmation :P`
`20:28.22`	`alterego`	`RST38h: already done`
`20:28.22`	`RST38h`	`won't that make maemo.org guess you as the second maintainer?`
`20:28.32`	`javispedro`	`my guess is that everything is dead`
`20:28.37`	`javispedro`	`wasn't the autobuilder broken a few hours ago?`
`20:28.42`	`RST38h`	`yep`
`20:28.44`	`qwerty12_N900`	`We need you, Niels!`
`20:28.59`	`Stskeeps`	`PaulFertser: as mmc.. :P`
`20:29.09`	`javispedro`	`yeah, he's out for a few weeks and everything break.`
`20:29.09`	`PaulFertser`	`Stskeeps: omap-mmc? That's for external.`
`20:29.13`	`RST38h`	`That is not normal btw. X-Fade leaves for vacation and hell breaks loose`
`20:29.35`	`alterego`	`He's been gone ages :(`
`20:32.31`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N901 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk)`
`20:32.35`	`*** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@54.200.49.122-static.velocitynet.com.au)`
`20:34.12`	`javispedro`	`qwerty12 already owns the N901!`
`20:34.26`	`javispedro`	`you should configure your client to use N910 or N920 instead of N901`
`20:34.41`	`javispedro`	`this way you'll bring panic to the masses every time :)`
`20:34.42`	`qwerty12_N900`	`"N666" =)`
`20:35.11`	`javispedro`	`EvilQwerty_N666`
`20:35.14`	`*** join/#maemo GuySoft (n=guysoft@93-173-161-80.bb.netvision.net.il)`
`20:37.27`	`*** join/#maemo goshawk (n=quassel@93-34-38-120.ip48.fastwebnet.it)`
`20:39.44`	`ali1234`	`PaulFertser: on n800 both the mmc slots are running off mmci-omap`
`20:40.18`	`PaulFertser`	`ali1234: i see, thanks a lot`
`20:40.54`	`ali1234`	`that's the /sys platform driver name`
`20:42.10`	`ali1234`	`it does appear to be the same thing as omap-mmc`
`20:42.35`	`PaulFertser`	`ali1234: i understand`
`20:42.52`	`PaulFertser`	`ali1234: now i read the code and i see it's multi-slot driver, with 2 slots specified for n800/n810.`
`20:42.59`	`PaulFertser`	`ali1234: thanks again :)`
`20:47.40`	`RST38h`	`Isn't N901 an ASUS? =)`
`20:49.02`	`*** join/#maemo Dantonic (n=david@c-24-7-146-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`20:52.08`	`luke-jr`	`RST38h: IIRC that's M900`
`20:54.25`	`KMFDM`	`this is incredibly annoying. i flashed my device but as the -devel and -testing repos refuse to work I can't re-add a lot of apps`
`20:54.36`	`KMFDM`	`I guess i'm going to manually download the debs and install that way`
`20:54.59`	`lbt`	`so KMFDM what's up with the repos?`
`20:56.43`	`KMFDM`	`http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/freemantle/free/binary-armel/Packages 404 not found [ip: 92.122.188.49 80]`
`20:57.00`	`KMFDM`	`i get the same thing for non-free and on extras-testing free and non-free`
`20:57.24`	`qwerty12_N900`	`KMFDM: fremantle; not freemantle`
`20:57.45`	`lcuk`	`speaking of freemantl, Stskeeps what happened to it lol`
`20:57.50`	`lcuk`	`freemantle`
`21:00.01`	`timeless_mbp`	`qwerty12_N900: so um`
`21:00.05`	`timeless_mbp`	`zenity showed me something`
`21:00.08`	`timeless_mbp`	`but the theming was odd`
`21:00.15`	`timeless_mbp`	`do i need something magical to get standard theming?`
`21:00.25`	`qwerty12_N900`	`root?`
`21:00.29`	`timeless_mbp`	`yeah i'm root`
`21:00.38`	`qwerty12_N900`	`run-standalone.sh zenity`
`21:01.46`	`crashanddie`	`oh ffs`
`21:01.58`	`crashanddie`	`landlord is in living room, and iplayer is down`
`21:02.03`	`crashanddie`	`can't watch top gear :(`
`21:02.31`	`qwerty12_N900`	`crashanddie: Join me in grabbing it off a torrent later`
`21:02.46`	`crashanddie`	`http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/watchlive/`
`21:02.46`	`crashanddie`	`w00t`
`21:08.06`	`*** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=CBabbage@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net)`
`21:09.41`	*** join/#maemo cure` (i=cure@rzavelli.demon.nl)
`21:11.31`	`*** join/#maemo Rhoruns (n=Rhoruns@ip98-165-84-98.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`21:11.49`	`*** join/#maemo Chewtoy (n=chewtoy@c80-216-126-156.bredband.comhem.se)`
`21:15.36`	`*** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net)`
`21:17.47`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Hey, who's surprised, rcadden is being silly.`
`21:18.43`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Oh, screw krisse.`
`21:18.59`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=386138`
`21:21.07`	`RST38h`	`http://zchydem.enume.net/?p=149 <=== Symbian/S60 people brought their "goodies" to Harmatan`
`21:21.15`	`RST38h`	`Be afraid. Be very afraid.`
`21:21.20`	`*** join/#maemo tonikitoo (n=tonikito@201-75-91-56-ma.cpe.vivax.com.br)`
`21:21.30`	`javispedro`	`I am afraid already...`
`21:21.39`	`*** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@86.56.57.78)`
`21:21.52`	`javispedro`	`Thank god, m6 devices will use a capacitive screen so deciding will be easy.`
`21:22.00`	`RST38h`	`every time I see that class diagram, I get really afraid`
`21:22.50`	`Stskeeps`	`and what's amatter with MVC? :P`
`21:23.25`	`RST38h`	`overengeneered to hell`
`21:24.58`	`*** join/#maemo zs (n=zs@188-220-50-10.zone11.bethere.co.uk)`
`21:26.36`	`*** join/#maemo igagis_ (n=igagis@ns2.vsev.lanck.net)`
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`21:30.03`	`*** join/#maemo Flyser_ (n=flyser@unaffiliated/flyser)`
`21:30.30`	`*** join/#maemo g3r0n1m0 (n=periket2@89.131.164.78)`
`21:31.26`	`g3r0n1m0`	`Hi, I need to know my n770 identification number, I've remove the back cap, the battery an the label that is supossed to give the ID is not present`
`21:31.40`	`g3r0n1m0`	`how can I get my device WLAN Identification number?`
`21:31.57`	`microlith`	`you want the mac address?`
`21:32.20`	`g3r0n1m0`	`no no, I need the identification number in order to upgrade my OS.`
`21:32.29`	`sp3000`	`I suspect those have always been shown in settings -> about`
`21:32.29`	`g3r0n1m0`	`nokia site is requesting it`
`21:32.31`	`ali1234`	`it's on the sticker under the battery`
`21:32.56`	`*** join/#maemo Vulcanis_ (n=a_lovela@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net)`
`21:32.57`	`javispedro`	`yeah, he wants the MAC address`
`21:33.07`	`ali1234`	`no, on n900 mac is not used`
`21:33.11`	`ali1234`	`oh wait`
`21:33.14`	`g3r0n1m0`	`there's no sticker`
`21:33.15`	`ali1234`	`n770`
`21:33.54`	`javispedro`	`g3r0n1m0, read http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_770.php`
`21:33.58`	`g3r0n1m0`	`<sp3000>The only thing I can get there is the mac`
`21:34.09`	`javispedro`	`that's what you want.`
`21:34.46`	`zs`	`there is no such thing like n770`
`21:35.00`	`sp3000`	`there is only zuul`
`21:35.06`	`g3r0n1m0`	`<javispedro>gracias`
`21:35.06`	`sp3000`	`s/zuul/xul/`
`21:35.09`	`GeneralAntilles`	`When people are pulling out John Swift, you know there's been a communication issue.`
`21:36.02`	`lbt`	`hmm dropbear doesn't force a root passwd change`
`21:36.32`	`SpeedEvil`	`Is tere a default ssh password?`
`21:36.37`	`lbt`	`rootme`
`21:36.40`	`SpeedEvil`	`(wrt the iphone virus)`
`21:36.45`	`javispedro`	`account is disabled though`
`21:36.45`	`lbt`	`indeed`
`21:36.54`	`lbt`	`nope`
`21:36.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`I mean - taking into account the iphone virus`
`21:36.55`	`javispedro`	`even it has to be checked if dropbear cares about it`
`21:37.01`	`javispedro`	`openssh does`
`21:37.21`	`lbt`	`I could have bypassed something I guess`
`21:37.31`	`lbt`	`since I did a restore settings from a backup`
`21:37.35`	`javispedro`	`I might believe dropbear not caring about disabled accounts,`
`21:37.45`	`ali1234`	`i installed dropbear on n800 a couple of hours ago and no password prompt either`
`21:37.54`	`javispedro`	`but at least on n810 root account has ! as first char in passwd entry`
`21:39.32`	`timeless_mbp`	`ok`
`21:39.37`	`javispedro`	`so theoretically no password will ever match.`
`21:39.41`	`qwerty12_N900`	`Unless you're in RD-Mode :)`
`21:39.44`	`timeless_mbp`	`anyone want to be my debian build script friend?`
`21:40.10`	`GeneralAntilles`	`takes a second swing at the bugzilla insanity.`
`21:40.45`	`timeless_mbp`	`?`
`21:41.02`	`GeneralAntilles`	`timeless_mbp, krisse pulled out John Swift for my 95% quote.`
`21:42.02`	`lbt`	`hmm, it also truncates the password at 8 chars`
`21:42.25`	`*** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=rsalveti@189.115.167.206)`
`21:43.06`	`timeless_mbp`	`it==?`
`21:43.11`	`timeless_mbp`	`probably requires an upgrade`
`21:43.13`	`*** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=a_lovela@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net)`
`21:43.21`	`timeless_mbp`	`iirc a newer bugzilla supports non whichever limited passwords`
`21:43.35`	`lbt`	`I just flashed the retail fiasco`
`21:43.46`	`javispedro`	`probably not using shadow then`
`21:43.57`	`lbt`	`and typing 'passwd' at the prompt says 5-8 chars`
`21:43.57`	`luke-jr`	`has anyone here ever heard of John Connor?`
`21:44.02`	`lbt`	`no, not using shadow`
`21:44.08`	`javispedro`	`would never use password login in n8x0`
`21:46.03`	`*** join/#maemo guysoft422 (n=guysoft@93-173-161-80.bb.netvision.net.il)`
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`21:48.20`	`*** join/#maemo Howdy (i=53b919ab@gateway/web/freenode/x-nhxwbneocexnqiby)`
`21:50.09`	`*** join/#maemo paroneayea (n=user@fsf/member/paroneayea)`
`21:50.13`	`paroneayea`	`hello all`
`21:50.31`	`paroneayea`	`so, n900 is awesome`
`21:50.41`	`SpeedEvil`	`paroneayea: no, it sucks.`
`21:50.49`	`SpeedEvil`	`get an iphone.`
`21:50.51`	`paroneayea`	`SpeedEvil: :P`
`21:51.00`	`GeneralAntilles`	`paroneayea, NYC/Chicago?`
`21:51.02`	`doc\|home`	`what's an n900?`
`21:51.08`	`paroneayea`	`GeneralAntilles: yeah, picked mine up here in chicago`
`21:51.09`	`javispedro`	`android is so much better.`
`21:51.11`	`paroneayea`	`yesterday`
`21:51.11`	`SpeedEvil`	`cannot comment about its awesomeness, not having had one delivered yet.`
`21:51.20`	`GeneralAntilles`	`doc\|home, I think it's an Android something or other.`
`21:51.23`	`SpeedEvil`	`looks at nokia.co.uk, and clicks refresh`
`21:51.27`	`doc\|home`	`GeneralAntilles: oh? lame`
`21:51.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`doc\|home, or maybe the new iPhone.`
`21:51.35`	`doc\|home`	`lamer`
`21:51.42`	`javispedro`	`iphone? no android!`
`21:51.53`	`javispedro`	`dealbreaker!`
`21:51.55`	`paroneayea`	`I'm trying to figure out what kind of data/power cable this is so I can get extras.`
`21:51.56`	`GeneralAntilles`	`javispedro, or maybe it's Apple switching to Android.`
`21:51.56`	`doc\|home`	`stabs canadian telcos`
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`21:52.09`	`GeneralAntilles`	`paroneayea, yes, indeed, it's a pretty kickin' device.`
`21:52.13`	`GeneralAntilles`	`paroneayea, microUSB.`
`21:52.15`	`paroneayea`	`thus far anyway, it seems as hackable as advertised`
`21:52.20`	`paroneayea`	`GeneralAntilles: excellent, thanks :)`
`21:52.26`	`GeneralAntilles`	`paroneayea, Amazon sells official cables for all of about $0.60.`
`21:52.44`	`GeneralAntilles`	`parasight, the AC-10U power adapter is, unfortunately, still a bit pricey (~$17).`
`21:52.47`	`paroneayea`	`GeneralAntilles: haha, great, thanks. nokia sells them for about.. 60`
`21:52.51`	`SpeedEvil`	`paroneayea: impressions so far? What sort of user are you?`
`21:52.52`	`paroneayea`	`dollars :P`
`21:53.00`	`paroneayea`	`SpeedEvil: well I'm a programmer`
`21:53.01`	`GeneralAntilles`	`But I picked up 4 microUSB cables for all of about $9 with shipping.`
`21:53.11`	`paroneayea`	`so I've barely gotten time to hack it yet but`
`21:53.18`	`paroneayea`	`it wasn't hard to get root access on the thing`
`21:53.23`	`*** join/#maemo EspadaV8_L (n=espadav8@93-97-175-175.zone5.bethere.co.uk)`
`21:53.32`	`GeneralAntilles`	`paroneayea, the first really open mainstream phone. ;)`
`21:53.33`	`paroneayea`	`and installing python was as easy as apt-get install python`
`21:53.42`	`paroneayea`	`GeneralAntilles: indeed, I got two, one for myself and my wife`
`21:53.44`	`paroneayea`	`who is a non-hacker`
`21:53.50`	`paroneayea`	`and we are both extremely pleased.`
`21:54.43`	`paroneayea`	`the ui is much slicker than the videos even show I think. It is really gorgeous and shows off what can be done w/ technology that's pretty close to what on a free software desktop`
`21:54.55`	`paroneayea`	`unlike a terrible android self-contained universe :)`
`21:55.00`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Hooray for not running a Java VM!`
`21:55.04`	`paroneayea`	`yeah no shit`
`21:55.15`	`paroneayea`	`overall it's exceeded expectations in all ways thus far`
`21:55.20`	`paroneayea`	`and my expectations were pretty high`
`21:55.33`	`paroneayea`	`the main issue I'm having now is that it doesn't have an alt key`
`21:55.38`	`GeneralAntilles`	`paroneayea, plus Nokia has vaguely open governance, a public bugzilla and a history of supporting open source.`
`21:55.45`	`paroneayea`	`which sounds silly but I plan to port emacs to it :)`
`21:55.55`	`Stskeeps`	`qemacs is already there..`
`21:55.55`	`Stskeeps`	`i think`
`21:56.00`	`paroneayea`	`really? hm`
`21:56.02`	`GeneralAntilles`	`paroneayea, um, consider subscribing to maemo-developers.`
`21:56.19`	`GeneralAntilles`	`paroneayea, and emacs has been ported to Maemo since version 1.`
`21:56.20`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_mailing_lists`
`21:56.26`	`paroneayea`	`GeneralAntilles: oh neat`
`21:56.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`qole is working on getting key rebindings working properly.`
`21:56.37`	`*** join/#maemo hardaker (n=hardaker@mail.hardakers.net)`
`21:56.37`	`paroneayea`	`yes I guess I should`
`21:56.39`	`paroneayea`	`that's awesome`
`21:56.39`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I'd like to add tab and pipe myself.`
`21:56.52`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I think there's some HAL silliness involved.`
`21:57.05`	`GeneralAntilles`	`As the stuff that worked on Maemo 4 isn't working now.`
`21:57.10`	`GeneralAntilles`	`(xmodmap, etc.)`
`21:57.14`	`sp3000`	`I can't let you have the pipe, Dave.`
`21:57.34`	`GeneralAntilles`	`(sound of heavy breathing)`
`21:57.47`	`paroneayea`	`I was thinking of seeing if I could map function+one of the arrow keys to alt`
`21:57.54`	`paroneayea`	`those don't seem to be mapped to anything`
`21:58.05`	`paroneayea`	`and maybe function + one of the others to pipe`
`21:58.10`	`GeneralAntilles`	`No, fn on the arrow keys, backspace and return is free.`
`21:58.17`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Shift-Fn is free on everything.`
`21:58.25`	`javispedro`	`save for the internal layouts. dammit!`
`21:58.26`	`paroneayea`	`aha`
`21:58.33`	`GeneralAntilles`	`paroneayea, two goodies:`
`21:58.33`	`javispedro`	`s/internal/international`
`21:58.42`	`GeneralAntilles`	`ctrl-shift-x opens the XTerm from anywhere.`
`21:58.48`	`GeneralAntilles`	`and ctrl-shift-p takes a screenshot.`
`21:58.54`	`paroneayea`	`noted!`
`21:58.55`	`paroneayea`	`thanks :)`
`22:01.22`	`paroneayea`	`GeneralAntilles: so is this the way to go for mapping the keyboard? http://maemo.org/community/maemo-users/mapping_the_n900_keyboard/`
`22:01.57`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I unsubbed from -users at least 18 months ago, so I dunno. ;)`
`22:02.03`	`GeneralAntilles`	`recommends avoiding that particular list.`
`22:02.13`	`GeneralAntilles`	`waits for the page to load.`
`22:02.58`	`paroneayea`	`yeah, I could see that being quite noisy`
`22:03.11`	`GeneralAntilles`	`There's a lot of Android and iPhone people on there, too. ;)`
`22:03.17`	`timeless_mbp`	`oh, that's helpful`
`22:03.24`	`timeless_mbp`	`do i want to know why they're on there?`
`22:03.29`	`GeneralAntilles`	`As a side note, maemo.org is getting a server upgrade RSN.`
`22:03.48`	`*** join/#maemo tonikitoo (n=tonikito@201.75.91.56)`
`22:03.56`	`GeneralAntilles`	`timeless_mbp, why people like that insist on hanging around and trolling communities they have no reason to be a part of is a question I'd really like an answer to.`
`22:04.56`	`timeless_mbp`	`qwerty12_N900: um`
`22:04.59`	`timeless_mbp`	`it didn't work?`
`22:05.15`	`timeless_mbp`	`oh`
`22:05.17`	`timeless_mbp`	`it kinda did`
`22:05.18`	`timeless_mbp`	`ouch`
`22:05.20`	`timeless_mbp`	`that's bad`
`22:05.27`	`timeless_mbp`	`so um, that sucks`
`22:05.36`	`timeless_mbp`	`the uninstall and install both warn about the reboot`
`22:05.37`	`*** join/#maemo choppa (n=choppa@mnch-4d0428e8.pool.mediaWays.net)`
`22:06.27`	`qwerty12_N900`	`You're using zenity to warn about something in a postinst? Just use maemo-confirm-text, or do what I did and just popup a HildonBanner`
`22:06.40`	`timeless_mbp`	`i want to ask about rebooting`
`22:06.46`	`*** join/#maemo mgedmin (n=mg@Maemo/community/contributor/mgedmin)`
`22:06.53`	`qwerty12_N900`	`Ah`
`22:06.55`	`timeless_mbp`	`i need to not do it from there`
`22:06.59`	`timeless_mbp`	`the problem is...`
`22:07.06`	`timeless_mbp`	`i'm not really sure where to do it`
`22:07.15`	`timeless_mbp`	`there are at least 3 cases:`
`22:07.21`	`timeless_mbp`	`1. installing the package for the first time`
`22:07.24`	`timeless_mbp`	`2. uninstalling the package`
`22:07.30`	`timeless_mbp`	`3. using the control panel applet`
`22:07.34`	`timeless_mbp`	`4. upgrading the package`
`22:08.10`	`timeless_mbp`	`in 3, the control panel could manage to warn about the reboot`
`22:08.21`	`timeless_mbp`	`in 1 and 2, the package needs to do the reboot`
`22:08.57`	`*** join/#maemo digitalstimulus (n=digitals@cpe-071-077-144-145.nc.res.rr.com)`
`22:08.59`	`*** join/#maemo gunni_ (n=quassel@xdsl-81-173-235-29.netcologne.de)`
`22:09.05`	`timeless_mbp`	`in 4, i need to offer, but only once`
`22:09.18`	`*** join/#maemo Londi (n=m@dsl-kvlbrasgw2-ff04c000-105.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`22:10.22`	`sp3000`	`just put the warning in every dialog :P`
`22:11.43`	`*** join/#maemo IcanCU (n=IcanCU@3E336208.dslaccess.aol.com)`
`22:12.40`	`sp3000`	`ooh, I'm subscribed to -users`
`22:12.47`	`sp3000`	`11k unread, hmm`
`22:12.58`	`sp3000`	`that's not working so well ;)`
`22:13.27`	`*** join/#maemo Londi (n=m@dsl-kvlbrasgw2-ff04c000-105.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`22:14.30`	`qwerty12_N900`	`God/Nokia, why the hell are the default feeds in the RSS Reader Twitter ones?`
`22:15.11`	`range`	`To show that updating works? >:)`
`22:15.35`	`qwerty12_N900`	`I miss BBC World News from Maemo 4 :(`
`22:16.40`	`qwerty12_N900`	`(Yes, I should stop being a drama queen but I've already typed in that feed's URL 7 times now)`
`22:18.59`	`sp3000`	`actually what I'm cusrious about is whether it's possible to enumerate the 1st 3rd and 4th levels in the kb mapping without touching the second`
`22:19.10`	`GeneralAntilles`	`hopes that clears things up a bit.`
`22:19.14`	`sp3000`	`for the shift-arrows selection reason`
`22:19.37`	`*** join/#maemo zerojay (n=jay@blk-222-179-72.eastlink.ca)`
`22:19.53`	`Stskeeps`	`oh, that's interesting`
`22:19.59`	`Stskeeps`	`http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=385315&postcount=1`
`22:20.05`	`*** join/#maemo nybble (n=nybble@about/apple/performa/nybble)`
`22:20.07`	`Stskeeps`	`The next device, running Harmattan, will feature a capacitive, multi-touch, WVGA (800x480) screen. The core of Maemo 6, useful for testing, will be installable on N900, although it won't be fully functional (hardware difference).`
`22:23.41`	`Stskeeps`	`nice to see they're going out of the way to provide it somehow`
`22:24.12`	`mgedmin`	`wants to complain about ukeyboard 2.0-6 being non-installable`
`22:24.39`	`qwerty12_N900`	`Stskeeps: Well, if they did not, the torrent of anti-Nokia comments would be well deserved`
`22:24.41`	`timeless_mbp`	`mgedmin: i already did`
`22:24.45`	`timeless_mbp`	`they're going to fix it`
`22:24.46`	`mgedmin`	`good`
`22:24.52`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I can't believe Nokia doesn't get that dropping support every year or so isn't a good business plan.`
`22:25.04`	`*** join/#maemo g3r0n1m0 (n=periket2@89.131.164.78)`
`22:25.09`	`mgedmin`	`timeless_mbp, just to make sure, it's the "/var/lib/dpkg/info/ukeyboard.postinst: line 21: rename: not found" bug, right?`
`22:25.18`	`timeless_mbp`	`no`
`22:25.27`	`timeless_mbp`	`my bug was the find -exec problem`
`22:25.38`	`mgedmin`	`heh, two bugs, what fun!`
`22:25.51`	`timeless_mbp`	`they take comments in the package promotion stuff`
`22:25.56`	`timeless_mbp`	`comment there and thumbs down`
`22:26.02`	`Stskeeps`	`GeneralAntilles: at least they're making support a hell lot easier to do.`
`22:26.10`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Stskeeps, doesn't help end users, though.`
`22:26.28`	`Stskeeps`	`i doubt there'd be a m5->m6 SSU`
`22:26.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`It's just a shitty thing to do.`
`22:26.33`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Especially after those comments about at least 2 rounds.`
`22:26.39`	`GeneralAntilles`	`A flashable image is workable.`
`22:26.56`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Asking people to seek out a community distribution to upgrade is not.`
`22:27.21`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Talk has but me in an awfully bad mood this evening.`
`22:27.22`	`Stskeeps`	`why not, though? are we just admitting we're not capable? :)`
`22:27.25`	`javispedro`	`I doubt m5->m6 upgrade path and that post nearly confirms it.`
`22:27.33`	`javispedro`	`*too.`
`22:27.59`	`range`	`Well, reinstall would be in order, I thinl.`
`22:27.59`	`*** join/#maemo ArSa (n=ArSa@173-25-26-173.client.mchsi.com)`
`22:28.03`	`range`	`*think`
`22:28.18`	`range`	`Upgrade to 2008 required that too, didn't it?`
`22:28.45`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Stskeeps, because it's a PR disaster.`
`22:29.09`	`Stskeeps`	`really though? with all the cooked roms and such out there`
`22:29.44`	`Stskeeps`	`and i don't know how long time they will support fremantle. doubt it's getting dropped at PR1.1.`
`22:29.49`	`timeless_mbp`	`grumbles`
`22:29.52`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Because they're choosing to jettison large portions of their community for the sake of dubious "hardware" issues.`
`22:30.03`	`GeneralAntilles`	`They're certainly not going to support it side-by-side.`
`22:30.07`	`javispedro`	`"hardware issues" --> multitouch all over the interface.`
`22:30.33`	`timeless_mbp`	`curse`
`22:30.37`	`timeless_mbp`	`ok`
`22:30.47`	`timeless_mbp`	`anyone here know where the lame Hildon Yes/No dialogs are used?`
`22:30.48`	`GeneralAntilles`	`javispedro, which is just inane.`
`22:31.03`	`javispedro`	`GeneralAntilles: not from a PR PoV.`
`22:31.17`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Multitouch isn't even necessary on the iPhone.`
`22:31.35`	`timeless_mbp`	`gan: but we're nokia`
`22:31.59`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=386170&postcount=63`
`22:32.02`	`GeneralAntilles`	`sighs.`
`22:32.05`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Bottom of the signature.`
`22:32.09`	`timeless_mbp`	`we require you to install a rose colored glasses filter to ignore our spelling of "Cuidad de MÃ©xico" :)`
`22:32.23`	`javispedro`	`LOL`
`22:32.38`	`javispedro`	`Cuidad de MÃ©xico means "take care of MÃ©xico"`
`22:32.59`	`javispedro`	`imperative form, second person plural`
`22:33.15`	`javispedro`	`s/form/mood`
`22:36.03`	`javispedro`	`GeneralAntilles: let them experience the feeling getting a WONTFIX in your carefully made bugreport is!`
`22:36.17`	`javispedro`	`s/WONTFIX/Fixed in a device you may or may not buy ;)`
`22:36.51`	`Macer`	`hm`
`22:36.58`	`Macer`	`going to install win7 on one of my boxes`
`22:37.17`	`Macer`	`i honestly should install debian or something on it.. but meh.. i need something that can run mediaportal`
`22:37.30`	`Macer`	`i should try out mythtv.. never bothered with it before`
`22:37.53`	`Macer`	`last i tried it was total garbage :)`
`22:38.07`	`*** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`22:38.09`	`timeless_mbp`	`javispedro: did you see it btw?`
`22:38.17`	`javispedro`	`timeless_mbp: nope`
`22:38.33`	`javispedro`	`can I see that on SDK?`
`22:38.34`	`timeless_mbp`	`http://www.flagship.nokia.com/`
`22:38.40`	`timeless_mbp`	`it requires flash :)`
`22:38.41`	`javispedro`	`ah, not on device :P`
`22:38.54`	`javispedro`	`heh`
`22:38.56`	`tbf`	`do i have to register for each package i want to upload to extras-devel?`
`22:39.13`	`javispedro`	`:)`
`22:39.22`	`timeless_mbp`	`tbf: eh?`
`22:40.07`	`javispedro`	`WTF`
`22:40.09`	`timeless_mbp`	`btw, does http://www.meet-your-city.com/ load for anyone?`
`22:40.18`	`javispedro`	`"Store is now closed, it opens at 0undefined:00 PM"`
`22:40.19`	`timeless_mbp`	`there's a link to it from the bottom left of that page`
`22:40.25`	`timeless_mbp`	`javispedro: lol`
`22:40.27`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Oops, the travel agent put me in Barcelona 7:45 Friday morning.`
`22:40.32`	`GeneralAntilles`	`is going to be tired on Friday.`
`22:40.55`	`tbf`	`timeless_mbp: just tried to upload a new version of glib-json, but didn't get any response from the autobuilder`
`22:41.00`	`tbf`	`hmm. should try the web iface`
`22:41.15`	`timeless_mbp`	`i haven't used ssh in ages`
`22:41.45`	`javispedro`	`poor Nokia clients in S~ao Paulo`
`22:42.41`	`*** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@nat/ibm/x-ztyfgsbtvuqdvagm)`
`22:45.41`	`GAN900`	`Anybody else flying out on Monday?`
`22:46.54`	`*** join/#maemo jaem (n=jaem@69.90.55.72)`
`22:46.58`	`jaem`	`good morning`
`22:48.34`	`zerojay`	`GAN900: lol... yeah, just saw the sig.`
`22:50.33`	`GeneralAntilles`	`zerojay, recalling, yet again, why I hate that place.`
`22:51.22`	`tbf`	`timeless_mbp: my fault. generated a bad _source.changes file`
`22:51.33`	`timeless_mbp`	`it didn't warn?`
`22:53.11`	`tbf`	`timeless_mbp: no message from dput, no mail from autobuilder`
`22:53.16`	`tbf`	`but the web interface told me`
`22:53.19`	`*** join/#maemo Pio_ (n=sean@207.181.14.102)`
`22:54.13`	`*** join/#maemo ArSa_ (n=ArSa@173-25-26-173.client.mchsi.com)`
`22:56.31`	`javispedro`	`doesn't know whether to assist to the n900 presentation or first ux sessions in bcn long weekend, since there's a non nil chance I won't have touched an n900 by then.`
`22:57.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`javispedro, play with somebody's on Thursday?`
`22:58.11`	`javispedro`	`what's going on thursday?`
`22:58.48`	`paroneayea`	`GeneralAntilles: so, I can't seem to find any reference to an existing build of emacs for maemo 5, old builds seem to be for maemo 4? Do you know where this is?`
`22:59.05`	`GeneralAntilles`	`paroneayea, dunno if anybody's built it for 5 yet.`
`22:59.10`	`paroneayea`	`ah okay`
`22:59.11`	`GeneralAntilles`	`However the 4 version SHOULD work.`
`22:59.54`	`javispedro`	`oh good lord.`
`23:00.11`	`javispedro`	`I got the XChat English spell checker working!`
`23:00.17`	`javispedro`	`say goodbye to my typos.`
`23:00.17`	`Flandry_`	`assist is a false cognate`
`23:00.18`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Really?`
`23:00.19`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Sweet`
`23:00.25`	`Flandry_`	`i always found that odd`
`23:00.35`	`javispedro`	`:)`
`23:00.39`	`Flandry_`	`attend is the word you want :D`
`23:00.47`	`GeneralAntilles`	`minus "to"`
`23:01.01`	`javispedro`	`Flandry_: ta!`
`23:01.33`	`Flandry_`	`my favorite false cognate is "embarassed"`
`23:02.25`	`javispedro`	`remembers a popular ad about that one on TV.`
`23:02.46`	`Flandry_`	`oh?`
`23:02.53`	`javispedro`	`local TV`
`23:03.08`	`paroneayea`	`whoa`
`23:03.14`	`Flandry_`	`assuming a significant bilingual population?`
`23:03.34`	`GeneralAntilles`	`paroneayea, hmm?`
`23:03.49`	`javispedro`	`I don't remember the details, but iirc it was aimed at the more educated layers`
`23:04.01`	`paroneayea`	`/ only has 250 mb alotted to it :)`
`23:04.12`	`*** part/#maemo g3r0n1m0 (n=periket2@89.131.164.78)`
`23:04.20`	`paroneayea`	`was about to see if I could install emacs on it, probably would have used up all remaining space :)`
`23:04.27`	`javispedro`	`specially I don't remember what was advertised, so it was definitely a bad ad ;P`
`23:05.00`	`mavhc`	`seems to be the case with a lot of well known ads`
`23:05.28`	`mavhc`	`I remember seeing an ad, about 9 years ago just before I switched to downloading tv illegally`
`23:05.50`	`GeneralAntilles`	`paroneayea, yeah, see /opt.`
`23:06.07`	`GeneralAntilles`	`paroneayea, Fremantle packages are generally designed to install to /opt (which is 2GB).`
`23:06.32`	`paroneayea`	weird, /opt doesn't show up when I run `df -h`
`23:06.59`	`javispedro`	`http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=386353#post386353`
`23:07.13`	`javispedro`	`whats cool is how it resembles the n810 keyboard layout.... sigh`
`23:07.14`	`Pavlov`	`<PROTECTED>`
`23:07.15`	`GeneralAntilles`	`paroneayea, /dev/mmcblk0p2`
`23:07.19`	`GeneralAntilles`	`What Pavlov said.`
`23:07.21`	`paroneayea`	`GeneralAntilles: aha`
`23:07.22`	`javispedro`	`or /home`
`23:08.02`	`*** join/#maemo alehorst (n=alehorst@189.26.44.70.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br)`
`23:08.31`	`paroneayea`	`GeneralAntilles: cool, thanks :)`
`23:08.41`	`paroneayea`	`er, thanks Pavlov :)`
`23:12.09`	`paroneayea`	`I guess now is a good time to learn about debian packaging ;p`
`23:12.14`	`paroneayea`	`I've been meaning to for some time.`
`23:13.07`	`GeneralAntilles`	`paroneayea, we've got lots of skilled packagers in the room.`
`23:13.22`	`GeneralAntilles`	`jeremiah, is our debmaster. http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_team`
`23:14.21`	`paroneayea`	`:)`
`23:14.41`	`paroneayea`	`dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of emacs:`
`23:14.42`	`paroneayea`	`<PROTECTED>`
`23:14.42`	`paroneayea`	`<PROTECTED>`
`23:14.48`	`paroneayea`	`guess I should try the no-x version`
`23:15.04`	`Flandry_`	`i gotta say, ever since someone talking here about how the 3-row is good because it reduces thumb travel and allows you to also reach the screen, i've been feeling like my Zaurus keyboard is way too spread out`
`23:15.12`	`*** join/#maemo ArSa (n=ArSa@173-25-26-173.client.mchsi.com)`
`23:15.48`	`Flandry_`	`i've always thought of it as an awesome keyboard, but i can see the case for closer spacing on thumboard`
`23:20.42`	`*** join/#maemo _claesbas (n=cnorin@c83-248-212-32.bredband.comhem.se)`
`23:21.49`	`paroneayea`	`dpkg: error processing emacs_22.1-1_armel-nox.deb (--install):`
`23:21.49`	`paroneayea`	`<PROTECTED>`
`23:21.49`	`paroneayea`	`<PROTECTED>`
`23:21.57`	`paroneayea`	`well I gues emacs tried installing to / after all :)`
`23:22.13`	`javispedro`	`yeah if you got a diablo .deb`
`23:22.21`	`javispedro`	`I mean, a pre fremantle .deb package .`
`23:22.33`	`javispedro`	`you'll have to get maemo-optify and run maemo-optify-deb on the .deb file`
`23:22.56`	`javispedro`	`or if you're building it read about maemo-optify stuff .`
`23:25.24`	`*** join/#maemo KindOne (n=lol@h58.45.28.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)`
`23:27.09`	`javispedro`	`twitches`
`23:27.21`	`javispedro`	`someone saying "all applications are Qt"`
`23:27.36`	`GeneralAntilles`	`About what, where?`
`23:28.18`	`javispedro`	`about n900, some local reviewer...`
`23:28.24`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lol`
`23:29.29`	`*** join/#maemo andre__ (n=andre@g1.blanicka25.net)`
`23:34.41`	`*** join/#maemo zerojay (n=jay@blk-222-179-72.eastlink.ca)`
`23:36.12`	`*** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil)`
`23:38.17`	*** join/#maemo cure` (n=cure@rzavelli.demon.nl)
`23:39.27`	`javispedro`	`youtube comment in a video showing the older ugly N900/rover protos: "Where can I get the metal case which is in the video?ï»¿"`
`23:39.31`	`javispedro`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw-c8iHZBd4`
`23:40.38`	`GeneralAntilles`	`javispedro, those are the Mozilla/Maemo Danish Weekend cases.`
`23:41.49`	`javispedro`	`case? or is that the actual device housing`
`23:42.11`	`GeneralAntilles`	`It's a case.`
`23:42.25`	`Macer`	`blah`
`23:42.33`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Similar to the one the Adobe guy used for that unannounced Android phone during the Flash 10.1 presentation.`
`23:43.17`	`javispedro`	`ouch then.`
`23:46.55`	`*** join/#maemo xorAxAx (n=xoraxax@moinmoin/coreteam/alexander)`
`23:47.41`	`*** join/#maemo ciroip (n=ciron810@151.61.193.54)`
`23:48.20`	`KenYoung`	`Is there a default root password which can be used on the n900 when executing a commad with sudo ?`
`23:48.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`There's no user password`
`23:48.34`	`andre__`	`install rootsh from Extras repository`
`23:48.37`	`GeneralAntilles`	`^`
`23:48.37`	`andre__`	`and use sudo gainroot`
`23:48.42`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Well, "root"`
`23:49.01`	`KenYoung`	`GeneralAntilles, Where does one find the Extras repository?`
`23:49.32`	`andre__`	`Start Application Manager, click the menu bar, choose "Application catalogues"`
`23:49.52`	`KenYoung`	`Thanks!`
`23:49.53`	`andre__`	`I think there should already be an "Maemo Extras" entry that you have to enable first`
`23:49.56`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Just use the .install link here. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh`
`23:50.02`	`andre__`	`That also works :)`
`23:50.20`	`KenYoung`	`Thanks again.`
`23:50.26`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Ugh, stupid Extras.`
`23:50.30`	`GeneralAntilles`	`er, Downloads.`
`23:50.33`	`andre__`	`heh`
`23:50.38`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/rootsh/`
`23:50.39`	`GeneralAntilles`	`That`
`23:50.48`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Stupid search doesn't find the Maemo 5 version.`
`23:52.10`	`xorAxAx`	`nice to see that nokia stopped calling maemo differently (OS 2008 etc.) at the surface`
`23:52.28`	`xorAxAx`	`is maemo 5 based on qt?`
`23:52.43`	`andre__`	`no, on gtk.`
`23:52.51`	`andre__`	`maemo 6 will be based on qt`
`23:53.09`	`xorAxAx`	`wp-de claims that 5.1 will only have community supported gtk`
`23:53.19`	`range`	`5.1?`
`23:53.21`	`GeneralAntilles`	`xorAxAx, the maemo (lowercase m) project was the open source part of Internet Tablet OS.`
`23:53.28`	`andre__`	`xorAxAx, a great and reliable source.`
`23:53.35`	`GeneralAntilles`	`xorAxAx, Nokia finally decided to adopt it as their brand last year.`
`23:53.45`	`andre__`	`may I quickly edit that wikipedia page to state that Maemo 4 was based on Windows Mobile?`
`23:53.48`	`GeneralAntilles`	`xorAxAx, yeah, they're fools. ;)`
`23:53.56`	`xorAxAx`	`andre__: i guess its just outdated :)`
`23:54.02`	`andre__`	`true. yes :-)`
`23:54.05`	`GeneralAntilles`	`xorAxAx, nope, just plain wrong.`
`23:54.09`	`GeneralAntilles`	`That was never the case.`
`23:54.14`	`andre__`	`people guessing stuff. wikipedia.`
`23:54.34`	`crashanddie`	`I managed not to smoke for a week`
`23:54.37`	`crashanddie`	`well`
`23:54.38`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Woo`
`23:54.40`	`crashanddie`	`less than a week`
`23:54.47`	`GeneralAntilles`	`hands crashanddie a cup of coffee.`
`23:54.49`	`lardman`	`re`
`23:54.52`	`crashanddie`	`since wednesday afternoon really`
`23:54.53`	`lardman`	`how's things chaps`
`23:54.54`	`lardman`	`?`
`23:55.26`	`crashanddie`	`but fuck it, I'm going to buy fags`
`23:56.24`	`lardman`	`Can anyone think, off hand, how I should clear my non-double-buffered gtk_drawing_area after I do a screen rotate to get rid of any artefacts therein?`
`23:57.51`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Correctly?`
`23:58.38`	`lardman`	`nah, just any old way so it doens't look like I have two sets of buttons and labels`
`23:59.49`	`lardman`	`I guess I'll have to draw a big black square to it`

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