| 00:00.08 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, I think the maps will be in the 500MB-1.5GB range. |
| 00:00.18 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, it depends on region, though. That'd be my bet for US. |
| 00:00.38 | ds3 | fill up? surely, it has a real time compression through the DSP, right? :D |
| 00:01.23 | ds3 | GA: I was very disappointed at their demo maps; this is to the point where I much rather use maemo-mapper anyday |
| 00:01.48 | GeneralAntilles | Maemo Mapper's being ported to Clutter |
| 00:01.55 | GeneralAntilles | So it should be much friendlier on the N900. |
| 00:02.02 | ds3 | is the GSM module data only or did they bring out the mic and speaker so it can be used as a speaker phone? |
| 00:02.02 | GeneralAntilles | Ovi Maps on the N900 sucks. |
| 00:02.09 | GeneralAntilles | It's a cellphone. |
| 00:02.16 | ds3 | I am happy with the current Maemo mapper |
| 00:02.20 | GeneralAntilles | Earpiece and everything. |
| 00:02.47 | ds3 | well... except for its choking on huge track files |
| 00:02.47 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah |
| 00:02.47 | ds3 | OHHHHHHH |
| 00:02.47 | Milo- | javispedro gah, gentoo provides binary packages only, so I guess I'll start this building from scratch ._· |
| 00:02.47 | GeneralAntilles | Hardware will help with that. |
| 00:02.47 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, which rock and where? :P |
| 00:02.50 | javispedro | Milo-: don't understimate the task of building sbox. |
| 00:02.54 | ds3 | rock? |
| 00:03.00 | GeneralAntilles | Have you been hiding under. ;) |
| 00:03.07 | Milo- | javispedro well it seems like I will have to build it :) |
| 00:03.16 | Milo- | only binaries available through portage |
| 00:03.19 | javispedro | good luck. |
| 00:03.23 | GeneralAntilles | If you've got a data plan appended to your voice plan with T-Mobile right now it should work fine. |
| 00:03.32 | ds3 | some big chunk in the easter island :D |
| 00:03.42 | ds3 | I got a data plan but no voice plan |
| 00:03.46 | Pavlov | anyone made a google maps app for n900 yet? |
| 00:03.48 | GeneralAntilles | Ah |
| 00:03.55 | Milo- | javispedro simply turning on the VDSO in kernel would fix this though? |
| 00:03.57 | Pavlov | one that doesn't take 15 minutes to start? |
| 00:03.59 | GeneralAntilles | It should work fine |
| 00:04.02 | *** join/#maemo DrIDK (n=sacha@gam14-1-82-67-99-89.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 00:04.04 | GeneralAntilles | since you can just drop them SIM in |
| 00:04.09 | ds3 | can I export the EDGE/GPRS/3G/etc via the WiFi? |
| 00:04.11 | GeneralAntilles | and they don't have any real way to know what device you're using. |
| 00:04.13 | javispedro | Milo-: again, turning on compat VDSO == disabling randomizing VDSO |
| 00:04.16 | javispedro | yes. |
| 00:04.25 | GeneralAntilles | Not out of the box, but sure, that's something that can be setup easily enough |
| 00:04.28 | lcuk | burns vdso32=0 with fire |
| 00:04.30 | ds3 | GA: some TMO folks say I have to get a new plan for the 3G stuff and other says I am all set |
| 00:04.32 | hardaker | Pavlov: an open street maps app existed for the n8xx devices, which would be better (IMHO) if that would get improvement. needs routing though. |
| 00:04.36 | GeneralAntilles | and I'm sure somebody will make a script or a nice utility to do it soon. |
| 00:04.46 | DrIDK | Is there any tutorial to install and make the hello word application with QT4 on the maemo5 SDK ? |
| 00:04.46 | ds3 | GA: can it at least tether over BT? |
| 00:04.49 | Milo- | well, boot and retry |
| 00:04.51 | Pavlov | i mostly just want traffic and address searching |
| 00:05.11 | ds3 | the problem is will they be able to get the WiLink firmware to run the N900 in a mix AP/Client mode |
| 00:05.17 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, not out of the box, but it's pretty trivial to setup. http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles |
| 00:05.17 | lcuk | just wants a helicopter |
| 00:05.38 | *** join/#maemo alecrim (n=alecrim@201008206245.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 00:05.51 | javispedro | Dear Nokia. Please provide me a helicopter with my N900 or else you will lose quite a large chunk of the smartphone market. |
| 00:05.55 | ds3 | GA: did they bring out the S-Video or HDMI ports? |
| 00:06.04 | GeneralAntilles | The 3.5mm jack is A/V |
| 00:06.07 | GeneralAntilles | So, composite. |
| 00:06.09 | lcuk | does the pony require travel sickness pills? |
| 00:06.13 | GeneralAntilles | But it's the best looking composite I've ever seen. |
| 00:06.13 | ds3 | WHOA |
| 00:06.17 | ds3 | :)~~~~~~~ |
| 00:06.35 | ds3 | it is a shame the Pico DLP doesn't support composite out of the box |
| 00:06.36 | lcuk | ds3, video out is absolutely stunning |
| 00:06.44 | andre__ | hmm, helicopters... icecream machine would be cooler though. |
| 00:06.53 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, VGBA looks really good on composite. |
| 00:06.57 | lcuk | bacon grill is enough for me |
| 00:06.58 | microlith | wonders if he could borrow the reflow station at work to break out the dvi signals... |
| 00:07.23 | lcuk | not exactly an end user friendly modification |
| 00:07.27 | ds3 | GA: I was looking for a portable way of getting a larger screen for the few rare cases I need it...i.e. show pictures at a camp site |
| 00:07.31 | javispedro | icecream! dealbreaker!! |
| 00:07.34 | lcuk | usd to do smt repair |
| 00:07.51 | ds3 | it doesn't ahve to look good... Beagle Board composite quality is acceptable ;) |
| 00:07.53 | *** join/#maemo fernand0 (n=bef0rd@186.28.10.143) |
| 00:08.05 | *** join/#maemo Firebird (n=Firebird@pool-138-88-206-119.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:08.16 | lcuk | ds3, ive had it on portable projectors |
| 00:08.46 | microlith | lcuk: 'course not, considering it'd require creation of a shim pcb to reroute those signals without altering the existing ones :> |
| 00:08.48 | lcuk | adhoc kitty teasing device (he chased tux around the wall! |
| 00:08.58 | ds3 | lcuk: it depends... if you have a PicoDLP on hand.... |
| 00:09.37 | lcuk | why take a picodlp |
| 00:09.46 | lcuk | dont you carry a 32" tv in your pocket? |
| 00:09.57 | ds3 | uh...err |
| 00:10.00 | lcuk | you could pimp your camper van |
| 00:10.07 | microlith | lcuk: the creases get distracting after a while... |
| 00:10.16 | ds3 | I like the Pico? :D |
| 00:11.00 | lcuk | is that a pico in your pocket or are you just cold? |
| 00:11.15 | ds3 | heheh it doesn't get THAT hot ;) |
| 00:11.38 | ds3 | hides the dual opterons |
| 00:12.01 | lcuk | heh |
| 00:12.06 | lcuk | downloads new ubuntu |
| 00:12.51 | ds3 | anyone tried running the gvm on the N900? |
| 00:13.00 | lcuk | whats gvm |
| 00:13.08 | ds3 | Garnet Virtual Machine |
| 00:13.15 | lcuk | not me then |
| 00:13.22 | ds3 | the Palm emulator from Access that is in Beta on the older devices |
| 00:13.37 | javispedro | qwerty12_N810 did. |
| 00:13.46 | ds3 | was it painful to install? |
| 00:14.23 | ds3 | the N900 seems like the ideal thing to replace the N800 tetering to a Treo |
| 00:14.23 | ds3 | but for legacy reasons, I need the palm stuff |
| 00:14.41 | *** join/#maemo trickie (n=trickie@86.93.227.181) |
| 00:15.36 | javispedro | three words: keep the palm. |
| 00:15.47 | ds3 | why? |
| 00:15.54 | ds3 | don't trust garnet? |
| 00:16.09 | javispedro | don't. |
| 00:16.29 | ds3 | overall, I am happy with the GVM |
| 00:16.44 | javispedro | well, if it works already for you... |
| 00:17.06 | ds3 | I just need the datebook/todo list/memo things |
| 00:17.36 | javispedro | try them on your n800 before jumping. |
| 00:17.58 | ds3 | I did; it is just the expiration part that has me irked |
| 00:18.18 | *** join/#maemo Anpr (n=Anpr@cpc1-cmbg1-0-0-cust173.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 00:19.26 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, Maemo 5 has calendar and todo. |
| 00:19.30 | GeneralAntilles | They're not perfect, but they're workable. |
| 00:19.40 | ds3 | is it like the Gnome/KDE stuff? |
| 00:19.54 | ds3 | I have yet to find something that is as useable as the Palm stuff |
| 00:19.56 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzdxID_mSlU |
| 00:20.03 | javispedro | ds3: good luck... |
| 00:20.17 | GeneralAntilles | Actually, all of these videos are pretty useful: http://www.youtube.com/user/Maemo5UITeam |
| 00:20.32 | ds3 | can't look at them at the moment |
| 00:21.15 | Milo- | javispedro thank you :) the shell at least seems to work now |
| 00:21.34 | GeneralAntilles | Overview looks like this http://wiki.maemo.org/images/thumb/1/15/Calendar.png/500px-Calendar.png |
| 00:21.56 | simula | the vga out over video is sweet looking |
| 00:22.10 | *** join/#maemo anprrrrr (n=Anpr@cpc1-cmbg1-0-0-cust173.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 00:22.12 | ds3 | VGA out?! |
| 00:22.15 | anprrrrr | hello guys |
| 00:22.33 | *** join/#maemo SmilyOrg (i=Smily@BSN-95-201-227.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 00:23.07 | GeneralAntilles | Damn that Jon Reece! |
| 00:23.56 | ds3 | GA: btw, the clear plastic version (less the buttons) is available for sale now |
| 00:24.07 | GeneralAntilles | Ha, awesome. |
| 00:24.08 | GeneralAntilles | Where? |
| 00:24.28 | anprrrrr | anyone from the UK ? |
| 00:24.32 | ds3 | specialcomp but they been slow with listing the unit |
| 00:24.42 | GeneralAntilles | anprrrrr, lots of folks. |
| 00:24.49 | anprrrrr | any news ? |
| 00:24.51 | ds3 | got to mail them |
| 00:25.11 | ds3 | I also have them but I am mostly sold out (this is before listing it) |
| 00:25.16 | GeneralAntilles | Worst part is the lowres LCD. :( |
| 00:25.25 | ds3 | *nod* working on fixing that |
| 00:25.36 | GeneralAntilles | Wish the N810 LCDs were readily available at a reasonable price. |
| 00:25.48 | ds3 | other paying projects has been preempting a 800x480 version |
| 00:27.34 | pupnik_ | i never know whether to use MyDocs or MyDocs/.documents (which is annoying) |
| 00:28.11 | ds3 | with the higher speed of the 900, has anyone gotten a HP48 emulator working at a reasonable speed yet? |
| 00:28.21 | ds3 | i.e. x48 |
| 00:28.39 | pupnik_ | ty GeneralAntilles for uiteam link |
| 00:28.49 | lardman | goes to bed |
| 00:28.51 | lardman | night all |
| 00:28.55 | javispedro | nite |
| 00:29.02 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, haven't noticed if anybody's uploaded one. |
| 00:29.11 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, Almost TI85 works like a charm, though. ;) |
| 00:29.29 | ds3 | well... I kind of like the stack |
| 00:29.37 | ds3 | it is like having an adding tape machine |
| 00:30.04 | ds3 | what puzzles me is the HP48 emulator works fine on a PXA270 device (Treo) but it chokes on the OMAP2 N800 |
| 00:30.57 | *** join/#maemo Erod (n=Juno@unaffiliated/erod) |
| 00:31.06 | Dantonic | man where is the N900!!!! where is it??! AAAAAAAAH |
| 00:31.16 | javispedro | in tmo. |
| 00:31.46 | GeneralAntilles | throws a wet towel over Dantonic. |
| 00:32.06 | Dantonic | omg so tired of waiting :P |
| 00:32.22 | microlith | such antsy people |
| 00:32.28 | Dantonic | now my order on amazon says I have to wait until after December 25th!!! |
| 00:32.33 | ds3 | If everything people say is true, there is no point in getting an Archos 5 and reflashing it |
| 00:32.36 | GeneralAntilles | Dantonic, next week seems to the current favorite. |
| 00:32.41 | Dantonic | I hope so |
| 00:32.54 | Dantonic | I'm debating re-ordering it to get the extra $50 rebate from nokia |
| 00:33.11 | GeneralAntilles | Dantonic, my bet is that you'll be able to get it anyway. |
| 00:33.34 | Dantonic | I'm on the phone with amazon right now actually.. on hold |
| 00:33.37 | ds3 | does the N900 use the microUSB charger a-la N810 or the standard Nokia chargers? |
| 00:33.47 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, microUSB |
| 00:33.52 | ds3 | SIGH |
| 00:33.53 | GeneralAntilles | The N810 used the standard Nokia charger, though. |
| 00:33.55 | javispedro | what rock and where? |
| 00:33.57 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, sigh indeed. |
| 00:33.58 | Dantonic | I've heard that no matter when the pre-orders are placed, they will all be shipped together |
| 00:34.08 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, too many idiots whining for USB charging. . . . |
| 00:34.30 | ds3 | GA: I just want a way to charge it in the car... I just found a high current car charger a few months ago |
| 00:34.45 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, for the Nokia? |
| 00:34.47 | ds3 | so it'd be back to inverter + AC charger |
| 00:34.58 | ds3 | GA: yes... I found a 12V charger that works as well as the AC charger |
| 00:35.03 | pupnik_ | waiting for n900 until after christmas would really hurt, sorry Dantonic |
| 00:35.06 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, the box includes an adapter that'll adapt both of the old style Nokia chargers to microUSB. |
| 00:35.37 | Dantonic | ya thanks pupnik_ I appreciate that |
| 00:35.48 | GeneralAntilles | I doubt very much Amazon's estimate is much good. |
| 00:35.50 | *** join/#maemo wazd_ (n=Miranda@80-240-220-132.dnat.migtel.ru) |
| 00:36.03 | pupnik_ | usb charging even if trickle is very nice - n900 comes with adapter to let you charge n900 with standard nokia charger also |
| 00:36.10 | Dantonic | I just really expected to have it by now... hopefully next week |
| 00:36.48 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (n=infidel2@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 00:37.14 | pupnik_ | however it appears we had the choice of usb charging *OR* host mode, which is a bit of a pickle |
| 00:37.28 | GeneralAntilles | Be nice if they'd put 2 USB ports on. |
| 00:37.39 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (n=infidel2@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 00:39.12 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, oh, also, the camera kicks ass. |
| 00:39.23 | ds3 | we lost host mode?! |
| 00:39.31 | ds3 | ggrrrrrrr |
| 00:40.11 | ds3 | it may be rarely used but being able to get to a CDROM or a thumbdrive in those rare occasions is nice |
| 00:40.30 | GAN900 | Well, we lost OTG |
| 00:40.43 | GAN900 | Host mode may still be an option. |
| 00:40.52 | ds3 | for us 800 users, we never had OTG |
| 00:41.04 | ds3 | esp. since the mode pin wasn't brought out |
| 00:41.57 | *** join/#maemo CShadowRun (n=cshadowr@87.117.230.229) |
| 00:42.29 | pupnik_ | aha ty for the clarification |
| 00:43.05 | pupnik_ | playing openarena / quake3 with accelerometers is not something to let a drunk person do with your n900 |
| 00:43.18 | *** join/#maemo kylerh_ (n=kylerh@tn-76-7-165-130.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 00:43.34 | pupnik_ | i found it slightly dizzying sober |
| 00:45.37 | GAN900 | ds3, OTG worked here. |
| 00:45.54 | GAN900 | ds3, I bought one of the adaptors from jolouis. |
| 00:46.21 | GAN900 | pupnik_, sensitivity and mouselook really need work. |
| 00:47.28 | pupnik_ | it is surprisingly workable |
| 00:47.37 | pupnik_ | and fun |
| 00:47.54 | *** join/#maemo type_t (n=markwire@c-98-228-74-254.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
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| 00:48.09 | *** part/#maemo aakashd (n=aakashd@adsl-75-36-152-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:48.25 | wiretapped | does the n900 have a compass? |
| 00:48.39 | wiretapped | just read some conflicting answers on that |
| 00:49.06 | GeneralAntilles | No |
| 00:49.15 | GeneralAntilles | People on the internet are just idiots. |
| 00:50.22 | *** part/#maemo asdm (n=qwerty32@CPE001ad62f17c3-CM001868e79a36.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 00:50.34 | wiretapped | There is a comment at http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/discussions/board/message?board.id=smartphones&message.id=163007 about a video where "a Nokia representative mentions a digital compass in N900" |
| 00:50.42 | wiretapped | but the video has been removed by the user who posted it |
| 00:50.56 | wiretapped | but you're sure? |
| 00:51.24 | *** join/#maemo Xisdibik (n=Xisdibik@c-24-5-197-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:54.12 | type_t | hola |
| 00:55.02 | wiretapped | i mean, you probably didn't think your n800 had an fm radio ;) |
| 00:55.23 | javispedro | there's no digital compass. |
| 00:55.50 | Shapeshifter | javispedro: can software fix that? xD (joking) |
| 00:56.00 | Shapeshifter | I'm infected by the forum level of questions |
| 00:56.02 | javispedro | no, but brainwashing can |
| 00:56.07 | Shapeshifter | ahhh right |
| 00:56.47 | type_t | may be a sun dial might help.. |
| 00:57.10 | Shapeshifter | you can put the n900 in a bowl with water and it will adjust pointing north |
| 00:57.24 | wiretapped | is there an analog compass? =p |
| 00:57.31 | GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, it's not anywhere apparent. |
| 00:58.11 | Shapeshifter | you can use the n900 though to call someone to ask them where north is. |
| 00:58.19 | Shapeshifter | hope that is a useful workaround. |
| 00:58.51 | type_t | but we can think of code to get it to strap a GPS position and find its direction of travel. |
| 00:59.41 | pwnguin | as long as you only turn with a radius of 10 meters |
| 01:00.22 | DrIDK | How Can I install qt4-devel and play with it ? on maemo sdk freemantle ? |
| 01:08.49 | *** part/#maemo kylerh_ (n=kylerh@tn-76-7-165-130.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 01:11.12 | type_t | what type of compression packed is qt4 .deb ? |
| 01:11.28 | GeneralAntilles | Compression? |
| 01:11.51 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf-n810 (n=hellwolf@a109-50-50-4.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 01:13.25 | javispedro | type_t: gzip, but I guess that doesn't answer your question. |
| 01:14.42 | *** join/#maemo letusgothen (n=letusgot@69-165-142-60.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 01:15.37 | type_t | ha ok i see you you know .. i unpack .deb packages with 7zipmanager on windows and i get tar after first unpack control.tar and data.tar so .. |
| 01:15.48 | javispedro | why are you doing that? |
| 01:16.55 | ali1234 | type_t: the files that get installed in the fs are in data.tar |
| 01:17.05 | ali1234 | which is not compressed, it's a tar file |
| 01:18.07 | *** join/#maemo Tyrant91101 (n=tyrant@cpe-76-95-141-51.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 01:20.43 | *** join/#maemo BBNS_ (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 01:21.08 | *** join/#maemo MrGoose (n=cache@5ac515c3.bb.sky.com) |
| 01:22.35 | RXrenesis8 | 1. Look at your watch; is it before or after noon? |
| 01:23.10 | RXrenesis8 | 2. if you answered "before" the sun is over the eastern sky, if you answered "after, the sun is over the western sky. |
| 01:23.17 | RXrenesis8 | 3. ^ compass |
| 01:23.43 | ali1234 | what if its cloudy............. |
| 01:23.54 | ali1234 | or exactly noon? |
| 01:24.38 | RXrenesis8 | you should not be outside when it is cloudy, people get UV burns from that. and everyone knows that from 12:00 02:00 is siesta time |
| 01:24.53 | RXrenesis8 | PROBLEMS SOVED OKAY?! |
| 01:25.01 | ds3 | apparently the vikies had a special stone to solve teh cloudy case |
| 01:25.17 | ali1234 | what if its night time? |
| 01:25.19 | GeneralAntilles | blah blah blah military training |
| 01:25.56 | ds3 | polaris |
| 01:26.17 | ali1234 | what if its night time and cloudy and you lost your watch and n900? |
| 01:27.21 | *** join/#maemo waite (n=quassel@c-24-91-81-44.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 01:27.24 | ds3 | up the stream w/o a paddle |
| 01:28.03 | Proteous | ali1234 was eaten by a grue |
| 01:36.23 | javispedro | knowing you, if you lost your n900, you're not outside at night time and cloudy. |
| 01:37.10 | *** join/#maemo BabelO__ (n=fcr@lun34-2-82-238-28-28.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 01:38.31 | GeneralAntilles | SSH can usually confirm if it's in the building at least. ;) |
| 01:38.46 | javispedro | ouch. every time the clocks on CPUs speed up, engadget finds a way to slow their site. |
| 01:38.59 | GeneralAntilles | Indeed |
| 01:39.15 | *** join/#maemo BBNS_ (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 01:39.17 | javispedro | man. |
| 01:39.18 | lcuk | microsoft has the same inverse performance function |
| 01:39.22 | javispedro | if it it brings my desktop to a halt. |
| 01:39.34 | ds3 | Firefox! |
| 01:39.37 | javispedro | I can't even begin to imagine how it'll perform in _any_ embedded device. |
| 01:39.47 | jaem | good morning |
| 01:40.07 | ds3 | you got it all wrong... an embedded device is a pallet sized device that us embedded into the ground |
| 01:40.09 | *** part/#maemo type_t (n=markwire@c-98-228-74-254.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 01:40.19 | ds3 | ;) |
| 01:40.35 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, it works OKish on the N900. |
| 01:40.47 | GeneralAntilles | Fine once it's loaded, anyway. |
| 01:41.02 | jaem | did you folks see this? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzcxNQ |
| 01:41.08 | javispedro | same as my desktop, but there's a quite noticeable pause where everything hangs for 10-15 seconds |
| 01:41.16 | jaem | also, http://www.bada.com/ |
| 01:41.16 | javispedro | while loading. |
| 01:41.25 | jaem | looks interesting |
| 01:41.42 | GeneralAntilles | jaem, it's Samsung. |
| 01:41.51 | jaem | GeneralAntilles, yes, your point? |
| 01:42.07 | GeneralAntilles | They've got no text padding on the left on MicroB. |
| 01:42.12 | GeneralAntilles | jaem, they're a LiMo backer. |
| 01:42.20 | jaem | GeneralAntilles, ah |
| 01:42.26 | GeneralAntilles | LiMo is evil |
| 01:42.44 | jaem | they're calling this an "open mobile platform"... I take it it's not as open as they'd like to make it sound? |
| 01:43.17 | javispedro | ah, and Nokia is even going to sponsor yet another engadget show! |
| 01:43.38 | GAN900 | jaem, who the hell knows. |
| 01:43.48 | GAN900 | There's no real info available. |
| 01:44.04 | *** join/#maemo ElPollo_ (n=jurgen@ip4daa8958.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 01:44.20 | GAN900 | javispedro, it's like a beaten spouse. |
| 01:44.33 | GAN900 | They just keep going back for more. |
| 01:45.10 | GAN900 | Hell, they're just entrenching Engadget more since now if they changed their tune they'd be "sellouts". |
| 01:45.28 | javispedro | basically. |
| 01:45.55 | GAN900 | is excited about Barcelona. |
| 01:46.09 | javispedro | I don't know what to expect... |
| 01:47.11 | ds3 | open mobile platform? isn't that basically a peice of plywood on a snow slope? |
| 01:47.35 | jaem | ds3, that's a sled |
| 01:47.37 | jaem | easy to confuse |
| 01:47.43 | jaem | and no, not SLED |
| 01:47.54 | ds3 | surely... it is open, mobile, and a platform :D |
| 01:48.16 | ds3 | did you not just make such claims? |
| 01:48.16 | jaem | ds3, find me a sled that I can get a root shell on, and I might be interested |
| 01:48.45 | microlith | also, engadget's new layout burns the eyes |
| 01:48.51 | ds3 | nothing stopping you from hollowing out a burl and putting it on there |
| 01:49.03 | jaem | ds3, -grin- |
| 01:49.48 | pupnik_ | N900 multitasking is fantastic - 12 windows, one a paused sdl game, no system load |
| 01:49.48 | jaem | pupnik_, I know :D |
| 01:49.49 | jaem | it's great |
| 01:50.06 | microlith | shakes a tiny fist at Nokia |
| 01:50.42 | VDVsx | GAN900, Limo is a deal breaker, everybody knows that :P |
| 01:50.47 | pupnik_ | this zeemote library by mr harbaum is great - we need a hack to control x pointer with zeemote |
| 01:51.12 | jaem | is the zeemote a specific product? |
| 01:51.15 | pupnik_ | control N900 for presentations and games |
| 01:51.23 | jaem | or just the name of the driver? |
| 01:51.27 | pupnik_ | yes, cheap bt controller |
| 01:51.32 | jaem | ah, neat |
| 01:51.34 | jaem | how cheap? |
| 01:51.40 | pupnik_ | great and very unobtrusive |
| 01:51.52 | pupnik_ | 12-18 eu here |
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| 01:52.47 | pupnik_ | but where is no joystick kernel module so maybe we could cheat and pretend it is a wacom pad |
| 01:52.53 | pupnik_ | ? |
| 01:53.06 | javispedro | this is something we need to agree on someday |
| 01:53.19 | pupnik_ | brainstorm on t.m.o? |
| 01:53.20 | javispedro | some common joystick interface -- of course the usual linux one would be preferable, but dunno. |
| 01:53.48 | pupnik_ | javis can you send me drnoksnes with zeemote support ? |
| 01:53.57 | pupnik_ | @ javispedro |
| 01:54.23 | pupnik_ | have no way to test real ergonomics |
| 01:54.38 | javispedro | pupnik_: can you build drnoksnes itself? |
| 01:55.05 | pupnik_ | sure |
| 01:55.09 | javispedro | pupnik_: then get https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/download.php/1014/3791/4618/633/drnoksnes_zeemote.patch |
| 01:55.14 | pupnik_ | just not setup |
| 01:55.40 | javispedro | if you want me to build you'll need to ping me tomorrow -- too asleep now. |
| 01:55.47 | pupnik_ | maybe it takes me a week before compiles work |
| 01:55.49 | pupnik_ | k |
| 01:55.56 | pupnik_ | i get going |
| 01:56.03 | pupnik_ | ty |
| 01:56.45 | pupnik_ | i am still kind of in awe at n900 |
| 01:57.06 | javispedro | your reports about it being usable for gaming are comforting, truly. |
| 01:57.25 | pupnik_ | heh |
| 01:57.35 | CoreFusion- | realized that he has to get a wiimote before N900 arrives... |
| 01:57.52 | GAN900 | VDVsx, drink! |
| 01:58.02 | VDVsx | glup! |
| 01:58.30 | javispedro | remembers he needs to poke tmo about the 3d drivers and make attila drink |
| 01:58.30 | pupnik_ | i would feel silly bringing a wiimote with the N900 - zeemote fits one hand, in pocket |
| 01:58.37 | javispedro | agreed pupnik_ |
| 01:58.37 | GAN900 | javispedro, hopefully not lots of riotus Maemo people if the N900 doesn't ship in time. ;) |
| 01:58.47 | CoreFusion- | zeemote? |
| 01:59.11 | javispedro | GAN900: riots are inevitable at this point ;) |
| 01:59.17 | pupnik_ | yeah just got zeemote paired with n900 - it looks great |
| 01:59.29 | GAN900 | pupnik_, friend of mine plays emus on the bus with Wiimote in one hand and N800 in the other. |
| 01:59.36 | pupnik_ | will get dosbox zeemote jozstick FOR SURE |
| 01:59.50 | javispedro | that's why we need to agree on something. |
| 01:59.56 | javispedro | libzeemote requires libhildon |
| 02:00.01 | javispedro | adding on drnoksnes ... ok |
| 02:00.10 | javispedro | adding on every other SDL app ... :( |
| 02:00.30 | pupnik_ | yep |
| 02:00.37 | pupnik_ | quim sees it |
| 02:00.47 | pupnik_ | so brainstorm i think |
| 02:00.51 | CoreFusion- | Nah, I'd rather get Wiimote |
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| 02:01.07 | javispedro | pupnik_: ta! |
| 02:01.20 | javispedro | I might even fill a candidate solution for that bstorm item... |
| 02:01.47 | jaem | lol @ http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/11/stabbing_people.html |
| 02:02.03 | pupnik_ | k will try to get drnok and dosbox built first |
| 02:02.21 | javispedro | np |
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| 02:05.01 | CoreFusion- | jaem: wtf? |
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| 02:06.25 | ali1234 | heh, i forgot how annoying autocomplete and autocaps are |
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| 02:35.06 | BBNS | mmmm shipping madness! |
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| 02:45.55 | pupnik_ | if you want to see a sdl game done right, check out "Ur-Quan Masters" UQM |
| 02:46.33 | pupnik_ | upper left click paises game and returns to app overview |
| 02:46.37 | pupnik_ | pauses |
| 02:46.48 | jaem | does anyone have any experience with using minigpsd's advanced features on the N810? |
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| 02:47.13 | jaem | specifically, I'm wondering how difficult it is to serve up GPS info to an external host over Wifi/BT |
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| 02:50.33 | lcuk | pupnik_, dashboard |
| 02:50.52 | pupnik_ | ah ty |
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| 03:14.47 | pupnik_ | zeesteroids isnt a bad test either |
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| 03:23.47 | GeneralAntilles | stabs Perl to death. |
| 03:23.56 | GeneralAntilles | Installing Perl dependencies makes me want to kill myself. |
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| 03:25.20 | mzz | heh, I don't normally feel *that* strongly about it |
| 03:25.43 | GeneralAntilles | One stupid little mobi2html script is sucking my lifeblood away. |
| 03:28.21 | pupnik_ | i know dep tree mudbog GeneralAntilles |
| 03:28.28 | pupnik_ | very well |
| 03:28.37 | pupnik_ | days on end |
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| 04:40.20 | pupnik_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:40.20 | pupnik_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:40.44 | pupnik_ | mp3 playback |
| 04:41.11 | pupnik_ | i bet we can improve on that |
| 04:41.37 | pupnik_ | e.g. only activate eq at high volume |
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| 05:46.25 | ShadowJK | flash is pretty terrible, it pegs my Q9550 CPU at 100% and then it starts skipping video :) |
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| 05:57.18 | pupnik_ | been chatting on n900, occasional surfing, and frequent mp3 playback for 10 hours |
| 05:57.34 | pupnik_ | been chatting on n900, occasional surfing, and frequent mp3 playback for 10 hours on one charge |
| 05:57.40 | pupnik_ | there |
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| 05:58.25 | pupnik_ | just hookung up charger because i dont want to drain to warning point |
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| 06:04.01 | microlith | pupnik_: not bad for heavy activity |
| 06:05.32 | pupnik_ | not heavi - xterm leaves cpu at idle |
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| 06:05.39 | pupnik_ | only drains really wifi and screen |
| 06:06.09 | pupnik_ | continuous surfing of evil sites maybe 4 hours |
| 06:06.18 | pupnik_ | 5. |
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| 06:35.21 | microlith | pupnik_: oh, that's nice |
| 06:35.30 | microlith | shakes a tiny fist at Nokia |
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| 07:16.37 | RST38h | <yawn> |
| 07:16.38 | RST38h | EHLO ALL |
| 07:17.00 | qwerty12 | Grr, you just made me yawn. Morning, RST38h |
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| 08:15.54 | RST38h | The military's suicide rate among active-duty soldiers was about 20 per 100,000, nearly double the national U.S. rate of 11.1 suicides per 100,000 people, as reported by CDCP |
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| 08:16.56 | genewitch | anyone selling an n900? |
| 08:16.58 | genewitch | :-) |
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| 08:18.20 | genewitch | i can pre-order one from amazon for $479 after rebates, but i don't need the unlocked one i don't think |
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| 08:24.44 | `0660_ | :P |
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| 08:27.07 | RXrenesis8 | unlocked will be cheaper over time |
| 08:38.57 | pekuja | might be, but you still need to pay for service separately |
| 08:38.57 | genewitch | RXrenesis8: yeah but i don't need one and i'm willing to spend the $580 now |
| 08:39.27 | genewitch | tmobile is the only us carrier with 3g |
| 08:39.29 | genewitch | for it |
| 08:39.37 | genewitch | so why bother getting an unlocked one |
| 08:39.52 | pekuja | to stick it to the man? |
| 08:39.55 | genewitch | i live in a huge t-mobile market |
| 08:39.57 | genewitch | oh |
| 08:39.58 | genewitch | yeah |
| 08:40.02 | genewitch | i mean for me personally. |
| 08:40.03 | pekuja | ;-) |
| 08:40.11 | bigbrovar | genewitch: am tempted to go with amazon too for that price, my current pre-order is with Newegg, but the $80+ extra bucks can be used for a 16gb card + bluetooth headset |
| 08:40.18 | genewitch | i can see a huge draw for it over an iphone in non-3g markets |
| 08:40.25 | bigbrovar | although i get to loose my standing in the line |
| 08:40.44 | genewitch | i've read reports that amazon won't ship it till after christmas |
| 08:40.53 | genewitch | I sorta wanted one, you know, now |
| 08:41.06 | genewitch | and froogle had a bunch a couple of weeks ago, now they're all pre-orders |
| 08:41.15 | pekuja | how much is a SIM-locked N900 in the US? |
| 08:41.30 | genewitch | no idea, that's what i am trying to find out |
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| 08:41.47 | bigbrovar | genewitch: well I think they are just being over permissmistic. ( or I hope ) |
| 08:41.48 | pekuja | does anyone carry it? |
| 08:41.49 | genewitch | I know there are people who had the locked ones for sale 2 weeks ago |
| 08:42.07 | genewitch | pekuja: only online that i've found |
| 08:42.43 | pekuja | I think carriers might be shying away from it because of the VoIP capabilities |
| 08:42.44 | genewitch | if i buy it with my paypal card i save a percent |
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| 08:42.54 | genewitch | pekuja: has nothing to do with the carriers, it's the radio |
| 08:43.11 | pekuja | the radio? |
| 08:43.18 | genewitch | the radio is incompatible with every US carrier except T-Mobile, and that's just a fluke, T-Mobile happened to buy that spectrum for 4+ billion dollars |
| 08:43.19 | genewitch | yeah |
| 08:43.25 | pekuja | ah I see |
| 08:43.43 | pekuja | so T-Mobile is the only carrier you could even use it on? |
| 08:43.48 | genewitch | at&t |
| 08:43.53 | genewitch | at 2G speeds |
| 08:43.57 | genewitch | T-Mobile for 3G |
| 08:44.02 | pekuja | well yeah |
| 08:44.08 | genewitch | in the US that's it |
| 08:44.13 | pekuja | what's the maximum for 2G? |
| 08:44.22 | genewitch | under 200kbit |
| 08:44.26 | pekuja | yeah |
| 08:44.38 | genewitch | n900's max 3g speed is 10.1 mbit |
| 08:44.51 | genewitch | at least on tmobile's service |
| 08:45.05 | pekuja | so there are no SIM-locked N900's available in the US |
| 08:45.15 | genewitch | pekuja: not in stores, only online |
| 08:45.25 | genewitch | i've been asking for weeks, everyone looks it up and says no |
| 08:45.27 | pekuja | so who has it online? |
| 08:45.37 | pekuja | I'm looking at T-Mobile's site and they don't have it |
| 08:45.38 | genewitch | I don't know, i can't remember the sites i saw it on |
| 08:45.58 | genewitch | the sites i saw it on weren't cellular providers, they were like cellphone stores |
| 08:46.07 | pekuja | ok |
| 08:46.21 | pekuja | and they sell SIM-locked phones too? |
| 08:48.09 | genewitch | yeah they sold blackberries and androids and whatever |
| 08:48.35 | pekuja | ok |
| 08:48.58 | pekuja | the market is different there I guess. |
| 08:49.32 | pekuja | we have a very different market here in Finland probably because selling a phone with a contract was illegal for a long time |
| 08:49.37 | genewitch | ah |
| 08:49.45 | genewitch | we can do stuff without contracts here |
| 08:49.51 | genewitch | you just have to pay full price |
| 08:49.55 | pekuja | yeah |
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| 08:50.02 | pekuja | but I mean the culture is different |
| 08:50.03 | genewitch | and verizon wants you to pay a deposit anyhow |
| 08:50.22 | pekuja | people are more willing to pay full price |
| 08:51.14 | genewitch | well in the US it's more like people with good credit can get away with cheap phones and contracts |
| 08:51.14 | pekuja | and most of the contract deals aren't such where you are forced to pay for an expensive contract you don't need |
| 08:51.40 | genewitch | yeah |
| 08:51.52 | genewitch | the n900 is gunna cost me $70 a month to use |
| 08:52.10 | genewitch | i shouldn't ever go over my minutes cause i have voip lines coming out of every orifice |
| 08:52.46 | pekuja | even the iPhone you can get for around 20 euros a month with a two year contract |
| 08:52.54 | genewitch | that's dirt cheap |
| 08:53.01 | pekuja | yeah |
| 08:53.02 | genewitch | that's also $70 here |
| 08:53.13 | pekuja | you basically just pay for the phone, and the contract is cheap |
| 08:53.19 | genewitch | wait, though that might be the same |
| 08:53.35 | pekuja | 20 euros is around $30 |
| 08:53.39 | genewitch | nah it'd be 47 euros |
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| 08:54.09 | genewitch | do the iphones get 3g speed and unlimited data usage? |
| 08:54.32 | pekuja | no, but you can upgrade your contract to get that |
| 08:54.33 | genewitch | cause that's the perk for iphones in the USA. they're one of the few phones that both get unlimited bandwidth and can use more than the carriers cap you at |
| 08:54.45 | genewitch | the other one is android, but that's $10 more a month |
| 08:55.02 | pekuja | you can get an unlimited data plan at 384kbps for about 10 euros a month |
| 08:55.22 | genewitch | that's really slow though |
| 08:55.35 | genewitch | iphones here get 800-1200kbits |
| 08:55.50 | pekuja | for 1M it's 20 euros a month |
| 08:55.53 | aquatix | morning all |
| 08:55.55 | genewitch | that's cool |
| 08:56.13 | genewitch | pekuja: how much does a locked n900 cost where you are? |
| 08:56.28 | pekuja | I don't think they sell locked ones here |
| 08:56.37 | genewitch | well whatever, the standard n900 |
| 08:56.40 | genewitch | how much does it cost |
| 08:56.43 | pekuja | I think even the ones from carriers are unlocked |
| 08:56.46 | pekuja | it's about 600 euros |
| 08:56.50 | genewitch | ouuuch |
| 08:57.10 | genewitch | that's double what i am going to pay |
| 08:57.12 | pekuja | yeah, that's close to $900 |
| 08:57.15 | aquatix | hm, here in the Netherlands it's listed in online stores starting at 530 |
| 08:57.25 | genewitch | 530 euros is still a lot |
| 08:57.29 | aquatix | true |
| 08:57.37 | aquatix | but damn, it's some package :) |
| 08:57.46 | genewitch | i'm looking for less than 350 euros |
| 08:57.52 | pekuja | yeah I think the cheapest deals here are about 540 euros |
| 08:58.14 | genewitch | grrrrr |
| 08:58.39 | genewitch | i really want one, i guess i'll have to just wait and use my n800 for EVERYTHING until i get it. |
| 08:58.44 | pekuja | 480 usd on Amazon, right? |
| 08:58.48 | aquatix | for less than 350 EUR, you might better look at an android phone or an n8x0 tablet |
| 08:58.54 | aquatix | depending on what you want |
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| 08:58.57 | genewitch | pekuja: $520 with $50 mail in rebate |
| 08:59.08 | pekuja | ok, so $470 |
| 08:59.14 | genewitch | yeah thereabouts |
| 08:59.19 | pekuja | genewitch: do you have to pay taxes on top of that or is it tax-free? |
| 08:59.38 | genewitch | well it depends. technically you have to pay taxes but amazon won't charge them. |
| 08:59.43 | pekuja | an important thing to notice when comparing European and US prices is that European prices usually include taxes |
| 09:00.08 | pekuja | the Amazon deal is still really good though |
| 09:00.10 | genewitch | pekuja: in general, buying stuff online is tax free at the point of sale. you're supposed to claim the tax at the end of the year, but no one does. |
| 09:00.19 | pekuja | ah, I see |
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| 09:01.07 | pekuja | aquatix: are N810's still available? |
| 09:01.14 | genewitch | not in stores |
| 09:01.17 | genewitch | on ebay, yes |
| 09:01.19 | pekuja | yeah |
| 09:01.23 | genewitch | for over $300, usually |
| 09:01.43 | pekuja | I remember looking at them a while back... they were pretty cheap before they stopped selling them |
| 09:01.44 | genewitch | i guess you can use them in Baltimore on a 4G network |
| 09:01.47 | pekuja | should had bought one :-P |
| 09:03.44 | genewitch | i'm not going to bother pre-ordering the phone |
| 09:04.05 | genewitch | i'll just wait till it comes out and everyone has one that wants one then i'll buy one. so maybe have one in january? |
| 09:04.36 | genewitch | i had my hopes up to get it next week but i guess that's a ruined dream :'( |
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| 09:04.46 | pekuja | :-/ |
| 09:04.48 | genewitch | anyhow it's late here so i am going to go to sleep |
| 09:04.54 | pekuja | good night |
| 09:05.39 | aquatix | genewitch: nn |
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| 10:44.02 | dbk | hello |
| 10:46.30 | mtnman | hello |
| 10:48.47 | mtnman | ACTION |
| 10:49.55 | mtnman | anybody home? |
| 10:51.20 | sijk | maybe |
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| 10:52.22 | mtnman | maybe not? |
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| 10:57.08 | mtnman | hello |
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| 11:05.44 | range | .oO ( hello ... echo ... ) |
| 11:05.59 | mtnman | elho |
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| 11:57.07 | lardman | hey chaps |
| 11:57.12 | Stskeeps | heya |
| 11:57.43 | lbt | o/ lardman |
| 11:57.45 | lardman | I've got a curious problem, am trying to pass a string from my dialog constructor fn to the dialog callback handler, but it vanishes en-route |
| 11:57.54 | lardman | how are things lbt ? |
| 11:58.16 | lbt | busy :) |
| 11:58.20 | lbt | which is good |
| 11:59.07 | lardman | good good :) |
| 12:00.28 | lbt | you? |
| 12:00.56 | lardman | day job busy, but it's the weekend so now am debugging mbarcode busy :) |
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| 12:04.22 | lardman | ~curse Nautilus for still having rubbish sftp:// support |
| 12:04.23 | infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, Nautilus for still having rubbish sftp:// support ! |
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| 12:05.20 | lardman | hmm, very odd, I've no clue why my string in vanishing |
| 12:06.34 | *** join/#maemo oilinki (n=oil@ip-208-109-22-97.ip.secureserver.net) |
| 12:07.56 | lardman | hmm, I wonder if it's being freed somewhere else... The wonders of threading |
| 12:08.35 | RST38h | do you have any reasons to use dynamic memory allocation? |
| 12:08.46 | RST38h | as opposed to just declaring that data on top? |
| 12:08.55 | lardman | Yeah, I can't know what the barcode will contain |
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| 12:09.07 | RST38h | but does it have a limited length? |
| 12:09.19 | lardman | probably not |
| 12:09.29 | lardman | and in fact I am using a char array that the decoder passes me |
| 12:09.37 | RST38h | oh... |
| 12:09.59 | lardman | also the fact that the lookups may take a while, means that the threads need to have a copy of the data, etc |
| 12:10.22 | RST38h | messy, |
| 12:10.26 | lardman | yeah |
| 12:10.50 | lardman | nice, that's sorted it |
| 12:11.33 | lardman | school boy error - had to move from a blocking dialog to a async one, and forgot where the string was being freed |
| 12:12.18 | RST38h | wonders if the lemmings are gonna leave tmo once they all get their n900s |
| 12:12.33 | lardman | has nearly given up looking there |
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| 12:14.57 | lardman | goes back to pondering how to not have to handle every payload type |
| 12:19.35 | lardman | has anyone else had troubles with .desktop files from Fremantle not working on Diablo? |
| 12:19.46 | lardman | or service files for that matter? |
| 12:21.04 | RST38h | has not tried yet |
| 12:21.13 | RST38h | But I am using the same files without changes |
| 12:22.28 | lardman | hmm, perhaps it's something in the Fremantle one too then, not checked that yet |
| 12:22.40 | lardman | do you know about svn? |
| 12:22.49 | RST38h | a bit, not a lot |
| 12:22.59 | lardman | svn: Commit failed (details follow): |
| 12:23.00 | lardman | svn: File or directory 'debian/changelog' is out of date; try updating |
| 12:23.00 | lardman | svn: The version resource does not correspond to the resource within the transaction. Either the requested version resource is out of date (needs to be updated), or the requested version resource is newer than the transaction root (restart the commit). |
| 12:23.14 | lardman | I've updated the file from outside the tree, bad I know |
| 12:23.19 | lardman | can I force it to update? |
| 12:23.23 | lardman | commit even |
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| 12:23.41 | RST38h | ah I know this one |
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| 12:24.28 | RST38h | the "right" way to fix this is to update your tree fro the repository |
| 12:24.39 | lardman | yeah, but that's out of date now |
| 12:24.44 | RST38h | so that whatever changes were made to that file by someone else will be merged into your local copy |
| 12:24.48 | RST38h | then you can commit |
| 12:25.03 | RST38h | ok, then do this |
| 12:25.06 | lardman | I made the changes from a different checkout actually |
| 12:25.17 | RST38h | Move your file away. Update. Copy your file back. Commit. |
| 12:25.29 | lardman | damn |
| 12:25.32 | lardman | ah well |
| 12:25.45 | RST38h | that will fix it |
| 12:26.02 | RST38h | if you are absolutely sure you are not gonna keep any changes fro the svn copy |
| 12:27.49 | lardman | hmm, actually if you do svn update it flags the file and you can select "mf" to choose your file as the correct one |
| 12:27.58 | lardman | thanks for the pointer |
| 12:28.03 | lardman | anyway fixed now, I hope ;) |
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| 12:28.34 | lardman | strange how svn update doesn't overwrite new changes to files |
| 12:28.53 | lardman | my misunderstanding of how it works |
| 12:29.25 | RST38h | hmm...a chemist reports that the famous Anarchist's Cookbook is full of wrong recipes =) |
| 12:29.59 | lardman | lol |
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| 12:30.12 | RST38h | Almost like someone saving himself time tracking all the idiots down, so that he could just regularly go over hospital records in search of characteristic injuries =) |
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| 12:31.59 | lardman | :) |
| 12:32.35 | lardman | In .desktop files, what does Version refer to? I seem to remember seeing this on the ml in a thread about whether it's the app version or the file format |
| 12:32.59 | RST38h | that is for control files I think. Verifying |
| 12:33.20 | RST38h | Ok, in .desktop file, that is YOUR app version |
| 12:33.32 | lardman | really? |
| 12:33.35 | lardman | oh ok |
| 12:33.39 | RST38h | In control file, there is this: Standards-Version: 3.6.1 |
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| 12:33.42 | lardman | perhaps that's why it doesn't work |
| 12:33.44 | RST38h | THAT is the control file version |
| 12:33.45 | lardman | ok cool |
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| 12:38.30 | mord | been comparing diablo and 0.16 and for some reason fennec simply flies on 0.16 |
| 12:38.32 | mord | :) |
| 12:38.41 | mord | (n810) |
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| 12:39.05 | mord | erm. wrong channel, this. so sorry |
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| 13:00.54 | VDVsx | damn, is -devel still down or I broke something ? :) |
| 13:01.41 | KMFDM | VDVsx, i've been unable to connect to -devel |
| 13:01.47 | KMFDM | for 3 weeks with my phone |
| 13:02.05 | KMFDM | strangely my pc can load the file my phone claims it can't load perfectly fine |
| 13:02.19 | RST38h | wrong app manager config? |
| 13:02.47 | KMFDM | RST38h, the config is correct. I checked it several times and also tried completely re-entering it |
| 13:02.54 | KMFDM | testing also doesn't work |
| 13:02.56 | VDVsx | RST38h, humm, I got this: W: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/Release No Hash entry in Release file /var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras-devel_dists_fremantle_Release |
| 13:03.07 | VDVsx | KMFDM, -testing works here |
| 13:03.18 | VDVsx | -extras too |
| 13:03.27 | KMFDM | -extras works for me |
| 13:03.31 | RST38h | ah |
| 13:03.33 | KMFDM | but -devel and -testing don't |
| 13:03.52 | RST38h | Somebody explained why -devel gets this problem a whle ago |
| 13:04.00 | RST38h | Stskeeps, I think |
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| 13:04.32 | Stskeeps | no, jeremiah? |
| 13:04.40 | RST38h | maybe.... |
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| 13:04.50 | RST38h | it is a problem with the repository indeed |
| 13:05.51 | VDVsx | bahh |
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| 13:07.31 | VDVsx | wow 75p from the Maemo long weekend .. and counting :) |
| 13:07.36 | VDVsx | mini-summit :D |
| 13:08.46 | lcuk | finnish winter holiday |
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| 13:09.14 | lcuk | mornin VDVsx |
| 13:09.49 | VDVsx | lcuk, hhihi |
| 13:09.55 | VDVsx | lcuk, morning lcuk |
| 13:21.36 | lbt | Don't bother handling malloc returns null, just quit ... http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/19998 |
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| 14:47.14 | pupnik | N900 battery is fine for all-day use if you dont keep a cpu hog running |
| 14:47.20 | pupnik | imo |
| 14:48.12 | javispedro | pupnik: did you try a stress test with 100% cpu usage? |
| 14:49.33 | pupnik | nope |
| 14:49.37 | sgbirch | Jaffa: I have always been confused by Forum Nokia, not to mention maemo version numbers/names |
| 14:50.03 | sgbirch | Jaffa: But I do so love Nokia's Linux products |
| 14:50.47 | pupnik | javispedro: now that i ave external charger i may keep a spare battery with me if i am gone all day |
| 14:50.58 | javispedro | yeah... sigh. |
| 14:51.27 | pupnik | fastest discharge i had was about 5 hours |
| 14:51.30 | javispedro | I will try some powersaving settings ... like maxxing cpufreq at 330 Mhz or the like |
| 14:52.13 | pupnik | you might be able to get it down to three :) |
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| 14:52.19 | javispedro | s/maxxing/capping |
| 14:52.25 | sgbirch | pupnik: While I wait for th n900 I am using an HP6509 (wm5), 5 hours is a *dream* on that |
| 14:52.56 | javispedro | 3 hours is what I was told. |
| 14:52.58 | pupnik | oh just wlan no cell sgbirch |
| 14:53.01 | javispedro | with full stress testing |
| 14:53.09 | pupnik | just screen wlan and cpu |
| 14:53.50 | sgbirch | javispedro: 3 hours with everything turned on? |
| 14:53.55 | pupnik | meh i am interested in my own use profile. and N900 handles xterm/screen at idle speed |
| 14:54.06 | javispedro | sgbirch: or at least 100% cpu usage |
| 14:54.37 | pupnik | three sounds right |
| 14:54.56 | pupnik | those 10 hours i had a paused sdl game using no cpu |
| 14:54.59 | javispedro | and thus the reason I'll probably underclock it. |
| 14:55.00 | sgbirch | javispedro: that isnt bad .. 3 with the processor spinning |
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| 14:55.11 | javispedro | pupnik: sdl apps paused tick a 10Hz clock |
| 14:55.16 | javispedro | which drains battery |
| 14:55.21 | pupnik | ah |
| 14:55.21 | sgbirch | javispedro: I have been very impressed with my n810, it sips power |
| 14:55.34 | javispedro | 10Hz or 10KHz, I don't remember ;P |
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| 14:56.18 | pupnik | javispedro - it is real cool that pause feature - know how it is done? |
| 14:56.30 | pupnik | hopefully 10 hz |
| 14:56.45 | pupnik | uqm source should have it |
| 14:57.45 | javispedro | pupnik: no, sdl has no pause feature .. but SDL_WaitEvent does tick |
| 14:57.59 | javispedro | so the only way to pause sanely is block on d-bus or the like |
| 14:58.46 | pupnik | i believe unix has SIGSUSP ? |
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| 14:59.01 | javispedro | yeah |
| 14:59.08 | javispedro | but it's hard to SIGCONT with a keypress then |
| 14:59.17 | javispedro | unless you have a daemon doing that |
| 14:59.28 | javispedro | iirc it was requested sometime to send SIGSUSP to processes by system |
| 14:59.34 | javispedro | when idle. |
| 14:59.54 | pupnik | well the windowmanager process stll runs |
| 15:00.27 | pupnik | that should be susp and cont ing, no? |
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| 15:00.56 | javispedro | it could do that, as I was saying, it was requested |
| 15:01.07 | pupnik | cool |
| 15:01.09 | javispedro | but I don't even remember the bug # ... |
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| 15:01.38 | pupnik | however uqm does it is good enuf |
| 15:02.29 | sgbirch | The wait for the n900 is killing me .. |
| 15:03.06 | javispedro | so now someone just affirmed Mario Kart runs at 40fps in the G1 |
| 15:03.20 | javispedro | even though tit sucks (less than 10fps) on all youtube videos |
| 15:03.25 | lcuk | what does it run at on the n900 |
| 15:03.37 | javispedro | probably just a bit better than n810 -- 20fps or the like |
| 15:03.58 | javispedro | sighs |
| 15:04.53 | javispedro | I wonder where could I find a G1 owner around there ... |
| 15:06.32 | javispedro | s/there/here |
| 15:06.54 | pupnik | what is g1? android? |
| 15:07.14 | pupnik | n900? 20 maybe |
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| 15:07.59 | javispedro | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQkAKKRUFbg |
| 15:08.04 | javispedro | i don't what's the frameskip on that |
| 15:08.20 | javispedro | but my n810 plays it a bit faster than that _without_ frameskip |
| 15:08.21 | pupnik | the problems with n900 are a hardware fault (speaker response) fixed in software eq |
| 15:08.39 | pupnik | whick takes 15-25 percent cpu |
| 15:09.02 | javispedro | so, horrible. |
| 15:09.08 | pupnik | and no scaled blits costing another 15@percent or more |
| 15:09.10 | javispedro | pupnik: are you sure it's eq and not resampling? |
| 15:09.20 | pupnik | both together |
| 15:09.36 | javispedro | make drnok output at 44100 or 48000 and measure |
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| 15:09.57 | pupnik | maybe we could temp disable expensive pulseaudio and cheaply stream to dac |
| 15:10.07 | javispedro | or go back to using dsp for audio |
| 15:10.11 | pupnik | or just the app bypass it |
| 15:10.12 | javispedro | i don't know who decided against that... |
| 15:10.32 | javispedro | bypassing pulseaudio -- here by dragons |
| 15:10.33 | pupnik | we just must limit the volume |
| 15:10.37 | javispedro | s/by/be |
| 15:10.38 | pupnik | heh |
| 15:10.49 | javispedro | probably uses the ALSA device 100% of the time |
| 15:11.15 | javispedro | not to mention who knows what's the ALSA interface this time. |
| 15:11.31 | javispedro | but iirc I read it is more sane than n810 since they're not using dsp anymore |
| 15:11.57 | pupnik | k |
| 15:12.24 | pupnik | internal rate IS 48k |
| 15:12.38 | pupnik | pulse |
| 15:12.53 | pupnik | see /etc/pulse* |
| 15:13.19 | javispedro | idonthaveann900 ;) |
| 15:13.28 | javispedro | well, and how's cpu usage at 48kHz? |
| 15:15.36 | felipec | I'm not sure if it makes sens to bypass pulseaudio |
| 15:21.47 | pupnik | felipec: we have an audio subsystem consuming 15-25 percent cpu |
| 15:22.28 | felipec | pupnik: when you use speakers |
| 15:22.35 | pupnik | i dont mind becoming unpopular to make this an issue |
| 15:22.40 | pupnik | yes |
| 15:22.41 | SpeedEvil | pulseaudio is insanity. |
| 15:22.47 | SpeedEvil | At least resamplingwise. |
| 15:22.51 | felipec | pupnik: which are crappy and will fry if you use then 100% all the time |
| 15:23.14 | pupnik | so allow high perf apps to play at low volume |
| 15:23.22 | pupnik | without bottleneck |
| 15:23.36 | SpeedEvil | A patch that adjusts the DAC frequency if there is no sound playing would be good. |
| 15:23.37 | pupnik | two modes |
| 15:23.45 | pupnik | no |
| 15:24.02 | SpeedEvil | So if there isn't sound playing, and a sound source starts at 48KHz - it clocks the DAC to 48KHz |
| 15:24.05 | javispedro | no, I can easily make the emu render at 48kHz and seems that doesn't cause cpu usage to drop |
| 15:24.22 | felipec | pupnik: you can do that by issuing the ALSA ioctls I guess |
| 15:24.30 | pupnik | one mode where app generates 48khz and disablesm resampling and eq |
| 15:24.34 | SpeedEvil | Sample format conversion? though that should not sanely do that. |
| 15:25.26 | felipec | pupnik: if you send 48khz there's no resampling |
| 15:25.31 | javispedro | it's more easy for the emu to do conversion -- think it knows about the spc700 it is emulating. |
| 15:25.40 | felipec | and you can manually disable the equalizer I think |
| 15:25.41 | javispedro | and not everything is sampled sound at that level. |
| 15:26.10 | pupnik | felipec: that would be the app level solution! |
| 15:26.39 | javispedro | if you can manually disable eq, wouldn't speakers fry as said? |
| 15:27.04 | SpeedEvil | Generally not, you'll worst-case get distortion. |
| 15:27.07 | pupnik | lower volume |
| 15:27.14 | felipec | javispedro: that's not the equalizer, that's x-prot, different filter |
| 15:27.26 | Flandry | "generally not" |
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| 15:27.55 | pupnik | limit emulator voloume to 50 percent for all i care :) |
| 15:28.02 | javispedro | so it's x-prot the one pupnik finds using CPU -- not eq |
| 15:28.10 | javispedro | cause why would eq be enabled then |
| 15:28.36 | pupnik | ahh a googlable term surfaces! :) |
| 15:28.36 | toggles_w | hmm... according to this, http://www.logicbuy.com/deals/newegg-black-friday-deals-and-coupons/16737.aspx that would make the n900 $504-ish, plus $50 rebated, down to $450? |
| 15:29.02 | pupnik | wow |
| 15:29.20 | SpeedEvil | toggles_w: Interesting. |
| 15:29.30 | SpeedEvil | toggles_w: that's ~ what I paid in the UK after all the rebates |
| 15:29.37 | toggles_w | i wonder if the 10% off will negate the rebate though... |
| 15:29.42 | SpeedEvil | (though they have not as of yet taken any payment) |
| 15:30.01 | toggles_w | still, if amazon hasn't shipped mine, i might cancel and try the newegg deal ;-) |
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| 15:30.36 | SpeedEvil | Order both, ebay one. |
| 15:30.41 | toggles_w | LOL |
| 15:30.41 | felipec | pupnik: how big are the buffers you are pushing to pulse |
| 15:31.02 | _berto_ | guys, has anyone tried to change numeric values in the about:config window in the n900 ? |
| 15:32.07 | pupnik | ask javispedro felipec |
| 15:32.19 | javispedro | felipec: small |
| 15:33.28 | javispedro | around 512 2*16 bit samples. |
| 15:33.31 | felipec | javispedro: well, the bigger the buffers, the better the performance |
| 15:33.43 | javispedro | that was not the case with esd -- empirically tested. |
| 15:34.03 | javispedro | probably because of dsp |
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| 15:34.15 | javispedro | which limited buffer size to something around PAGE_SIZE |
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| 15:34.56 | javispedro | pupnik: so try bigger buffer sizes (arg "-b 512", "-b 1024", etc.) |
| 15:35.04 | VDVsx | does anyone knows what is the default lib used in maemo5 to parse conf files (ini-like) ? |
| 15:35.18 | javispedro | VDVsx: glib has some of that stuff |
| 15:35.43 | pupnik | and my app will pad-out samples to 48k |
| 15:35.49 | javispedro | VDVsx: GKeyFile |
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| 15:36.14 | felipec | javispedro: the problem is the locking required between pulse threads and pushing buffers around |
| 15:36.42 | VDVsx | javispedro, do you know if it preserves the comments in the files ? |
| 15:36.59 | javispedro | VDVsx: no, I never tried it.. :P |
| 15:37.02 | felipec | javispedro: last time I tried 128k worked fine |
| 15:37.18 | _berto_ | can anyone try to change any numeric value in about:config ? |
| 15:37.55 | javispedro | pupnik: you could make a plot with buffer size vs pa cpu usage ;) |
| 15:38.52 | VDVsx | javispedro, yes it preserves, thanks ;) |
| 15:39.01 | pupnik | i cant fix these problems |
| 15:39.07 | javispedro | note though that higher buffer sizes will distort -- that's something I'm considering to workaround |
| 15:39.07 | pupnik | i tried |
| 15:39.38 | VDVsx | _berto_, in the browser ? |
| 15:39.52 | _berto_ | VDVsx: yes |
| 15:39.59 | _berto_ | VDVsx: I can't change any numeric setting |
| 15:40.07 | VDVsx | _berto_, let me try here |
| 15:40.13 | _berto_ | VDVsx: thanks |
| 15:40.16 | pupnik | javispedro: that distortion is a bug |
| 15:40.25 | javispedro | not a bug, but rather a // TODO ;) |
| 15:40.46 | pupnik | right |
| 15:40.56 | pupnik | or wontfix |
| 15:40.58 | javispedro | but the CPU usage measures should be good. |
| 15:41.28 | javispedro | if buffer size does help much an easy workaround is to just buffer in my app after rendering |
| 15:41.52 | javispedro | instead of sending every rendered buffer to pa |
| 15:42.00 | VDVsx | _berto_, confirmed (42-11) |
| 15:42.13 | _berto_ | VDVsx: you mean you can't either? :) |
| 15:42.15 | pupnik | ahh |
| 15:42.16 | VDVsx | the dialog does nothing |
| 15:42.19 | _berto_ | okay |
| 15:42.28 | _berto_ | the funny thing is that i haven't seen anything in bugzilla |
| 15:42.41 | _berto_ | but there are other bugs about the browser config |
| 15:42.48 | VDVsx | but I can change the booleans at least |
| 15:42.51 | _berto_ | it can't be that no one noticed this before |
| 15:42.54 | _berto_ | yes, and strings too |
| 15:43.15 | _berto_ | i'll report it anyway |
| 15:43.47 | VDVsx | _berto_, yeah the dialog for ints is different |
| 15:43.51 | _berto_ | yes |
| 15:48.46 | _berto_ | VDVsx: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6270 |
| 15:48.52 | povbot | Bug 6270: Can't modify numeric settings in about:config |
| 15:49.41 | _berto_ | ok, reported, I'm leaving now |
| 15:49.42 | _berto_ | see you |
| 15:49.46 | VDVsx | bye |
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| 16:03.46 | lopz | hi ;] |
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| 16:08.55 | RST38h | 'The Apple store called and informed me that due to the computer having been used in a house where there was smoking, [the warranty has been voided] and they refuse to work on the machine "due to health risks of second hand smoke,"' wrote one customer |
| 16:09.04 | RST38h | Cute |
| 16:09.18 | javispedro | oh, hi RST38h |
| 16:09.43 | pekuja | second hand smoke from a laptop that has been used in a smoking household? |
| 16:10.42 | mikhas | well, PCs from a smokers smell terrible |
| 16:10.53 | luke-jr | RST38h: sounds about right, at least as far as voiding the warranty |
| 16:11.19 | luke-jr | presumably they apply it equally, and don't honour warrantys if cat hairs are found eitehr |
| 16:11.19 | pekuja | smell is one thing, but second hand smoke? |
| 16:11.44 | mikhas | that one I dont know, sounds wrong to me. |
| 16:11.53 | mikhas | there are all kind of unhealthy things in a PC |
| 16:12.57 | luke-jr | yeah, but smoke/cat hair can damage it |
| 16:14.18 | *** join/#maemo hrw|gone (n=hrw@chello089078170228.chello.pl) |
| 16:16.37 | *** join/#maemo peter-k (n=petergre@117.136.19.4) |
| 16:17.52 | DocScrutinizer | actually I never seen a PC damaged by smoke |
| 16:17.59 | RST38h | luke: or just reserve the right to refuse servicing any computer with explanation "your pc is disgusting" |
| 16:18.00 | javispedro | there are horror stories all around the www about pcs literally "filled" with smoke or greas |
| 16:18.15 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: XD |
| 16:18.17 | RST38h | yea, they look pretty bad on the inside, cheaper to throw away |
| 16:18.17 | javispedro | I can believe some conscious techie refuse working on it. |
| 16:18.49 | *** part/#maemo peter-k (n=petergre@117.136.19.4) |
| 16:21.58 | mikhas | so the solution is to require the customer to clean up the computer, voiding the warranty while doing so =) |
| 16:22.16 | RST38h | figures what he is gonna do to "Droid and Android gaming irony" thread participants |
| 16:22.29 | javispedro | please kill me :) |
| 16:23.30 | RST38h | javis: So far it looks like Kaa talking to Bandar-logs |
| 16:24.20 | Flandry | i haven't visited that one since yesterday |
| 16:24.31 | Flandry | i thought i was on Engadget |
| 16:24.44 | javispedro | I still think the "older" one was worse. |
| 16:24.59 | javispedro | the one where someone registered and shown us he had "13 emulators" avail for N900. |
| 16:25.10 | javispedro | that's even before rst pushed his apps to -stable |
| 16:25.21 | alterego | Is there somethig wrong with extras devel? |
| 16:25.44 | RST38h | Ah, Wiki is sometimes SO true: "Their foolish and chattering ways are illustrated by their slogan: We are great. We are free. We are wonderful. We are the most wonderful people in all the jungle! We all say so, and so it must be true.. Bandar-log communicate almost entirely through the repetition of other animals' speech." |
| 16:25.51 | Flandry | it's hosted on maemo servers... |
| 16:28.58 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (n=andre@g1.blanicka25.net) |
| 16:29.20 | javispedro | though the whole Java argument is useless on that thread, since from what I've understood by quickly analyizing some droid emus only sound has to go through Java. |
| 16:29.35 | javispedro | (by quickly I mean may be inexact) |
| 16:29.39 | RST38h | javis: But of course. Only it does not matter to them |
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| 16:34.20 | thux | many of here wonders should they buy iphone 3 g s or n900, which one has better hardware? price seems to be close |
| 16:34.35 | RST38h | 3gs of course |
| 16:34.40 | javispedro | yes. |
| 16:35.04 | alterego | Yeah, iPhone, why even ask. |
| 16:35.07 | blimey3k | 3GS if you want a phone phone |
| 16:35.26 | alterego | chuckles |
| 16:35.29 | javispedro | sighs |
| 16:35.35 | thux | ok good to know, i don't know specs of either one |
| 16:35.43 | alterego | Why don't you go to #iphone and ask their opinion |
| 16:36.14 | thux | is here #iphone channel? |
| 16:36.18 | RST38h | of course |
| 16:36.34 | andre__ | takes a look under his bed if he still has those huge blinking irony markers |
| 16:36.35 | RST38h | Just not on this server I guess |
| 16:36.47 | thux | seems so |
| 16:36.48 | javispedro | there's even a haskell-iphone channel :P |
| 16:36.56 | alterego | Heh |
| 16:37.11 | RST38h | andre: is there a rocket engine too? |
| 16:37.13 | thux | #iphone ##iphone Forwarding to another channel |
| 16:37.13 | *** join/#maemo zs (n=zs@188-220-50-10.zone11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 16:37.29 | andre__ | RST38h, I can't talk about this here in public, sorry |
| 16:37.29 | mikhas | clever guys, a hidden channel! |
| 16:37.32 | *** join/#maemo JPohlmann (n=jannis@xfce/core-developer/JPohlmann) |
| 16:38.08 | RST38h | mikhas: hidden stuff must be mighty cool! |
| 16:38.21 | javispedro | just look at the topic |
| 16:38.23 | javispedro | :) |
| 16:38.40 | mikhas | =) |
| 16:38.50 | RST38h | "Instead of replacing the St. Louis Zoo's deceased polar bears with live ones, zoo officials put robots up in their place." |
| 16:39.31 | sp3000 | as long as they support mauling, s'ok |
| 16:39.41 | RST38h | sp3000: the article says not YET. |
| 16:39.56 | sp3000 | awww. feature regression. |
| 16:40.24 | javispedro | is it 2020 already? the world went mad and I didn't notice because I've gone mad already? |
| 16:40.26 | RST38h | Well, maybe the eyes light up, just like in the movies.... |
| 16:40.33 | javispedro | and they shoot lasers |
| 16:40.43 | *** join/#maemo trbs2 (n=trbs@82-169-23-132.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 16:40.58 | RST38h | javis: Satan got hired by The Onion, and he is working on their news. |
| 16:41.05 | sp3000 | that's still just a workaround |
| 16:41.48 | *** join/#maemo lardman|home (n=simon@78.150.120.147) |
| 16:41.58 | RST38h | javis: No other news outlet hired him, all said he was too hmm... different |
| 16:42.07 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: pictures - http://www.theoland.com/media/bear_sculptures/GM_Bears/Squid_500sq.jpg |
| 16:42.24 | RST38h | SpeedEvil: Oh! An idol! |
| 16:42.34 | lardman|home | wonders where the other XChat client is located |
| 16:42.46 | lardman | ah, here it is |
| 16:43.11 | lbt | SpeedEvil: send it to Bruce Schneier |
| 16:44.02 | RST38h | SpeedEvil: http://community.livejournal.com/detskiy_dvor/ (all commentaries are in Russian, but you really do not need 'em) |
| 16:44.24 | javispedro | blackra1n, pwnage, redsn0w, ultrasn0w -- are they hacking a phone or a night club? |
| 16:44.27 | thux | seems that iphone only got 256mb ram, ain't n900 have more? |
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| 16:44.39 | Stskeeps | 256mb ram, 768mb swap |
| 16:44.46 | Flandry | you got to be kidding. Satan has been on Fox news for years |
| 16:45.03 | RST38h | Flandry: too dull for the Satan. I suspect that was Jesus. |
| 16:45.39 | Flandry | I'd like to think He'd do a better job, but maybe that's just me :P |
| 16:45.43 | RST38h | SpeedEvil: Actually, the best-of is here: http://community.livejournal.com/practical_chaos/923.html (it will save you some browsing) |
| 16:46.31 | RST38h | Flandry: The key point is that whatever news Satan puts into print, come into reality. That is why Him working for The Onion is so scary =) |
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| 16:46.43 | thux | arm cortex a8 600mhz not bad what n900 got? |
| 16:46.49 | javispedro | same. |
| 16:46.55 | Flandry | ah, i saw that Twilgiht Zone episode too |
| 16:47.23 | suihkulokki | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:47.29 | suihkulokki | garr |
| 16:48.23 | javispedro | I can't watch ONN videos! |
| 16:48.38 | javispedro | level 1 emergency -- time to mkfs / |
| 16:49.28 | RST38h | Flandry: I think it was based either one someone's short story *or* on a retro urban legend |
| 16:49.56 | SpeedEvil | http://www.theonion.com/content/video/anonymous_philanthropist_donates |
| 16:50.12 | RST38h | yeeek |
| 16:50.38 | javispedro | SpeedEvil: that's exactly the video I'm trying to watch!! |
| 16:50.43 | javispedro | and I can't! I can't! |
| 16:50.47 | javispedro | damn Flash. |
| 16:50.50 | *** join/#maemo pH5 (n=ph5@g229247176.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:50.56 | javispedro | launches all the browsers on his system |
| 16:51.21 | Flandry | sure, but Twilght Zone is the cannonical source, even if retrospectively |
| 16:51.34 | RST38h | yea, guess so |
| 16:51.52 | Flandry | thinks it should be, anyway |
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| 17:10.28 | lardman | hmm, is Garage working for you chaps? |
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| 17:11.06 | RST38h | worked a few hours ago |
| 17:11.17 | lardman | worked 10min ago, but not now |
| 17:11.21 | RST38h | pupnik spoiled all the fun =( |
| 17:11.27 | RST38h | too serious |
| 17:12.16 | lardman | ah, just veeeerrrryyyy slow |
| 17:13.44 | RST38h | Bug #5300 got into internal bugzilla. Sweet |
| 17:13.45 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5300 Support sending files via Bluetooth in file manager |
| 17:15.30 | javispedro | RST38h: actually, the fun is starting for me -- since the a320 is a console I tried. |
| 17:15.51 | javispedro | it was on par with N810 -- and he's saying it's full speed. |
| 17:16.04 | RST38h | javis: he does not understand what he is saying |
| 17:16.23 | RST38h | not worth arguing there, although trolling poor lemming all the way to the cliff may be fun |
| 17:17.17 | lardman | what's the a320? |
| 17:17.24 | lardman | large aircraft to me |
| 17:17.34 | javispedro | arm11, 500ish Mhz iirc. |
| 17:17.41 | lardman | pda? |
| 17:17.44 | javispedro | yeah |
| 17:17.49 | javispedro | console |
| 17:18.05 | javispedro | well I was wrong |
| 17:18.08 | lardman | Dingoo |
| 17:18.11 | javispedro | not arm11 |
| 17:18.11 | RST38h | A Chinese console |
| 17:18.13 | javispedro | but MIPS |
| 17:18.24 | RST38h | Anything with MIPS will suck by definition |
| 17:18.32 | lardman | small screen too |
| 17:18.36 | RST38h | (I can explain why, but it is somewhat involved) |
| 17:18.57 | lardman | go on :) |
| 17:19.39 | RST38h | Well, MIPS instruction set has been made by academics, so even although it is RISC, it is incredibly inefficient |
| 17:19.52 | RST38h | For example, VGBA binary size hits 1MB on MIPS |
| 17:19.57 | lardman | they made the inefficient microcode? |
| 17:20.06 | RST38h | Also, the stack frames are huge |
| 17:20.13 | lardman | or poor design/instruction choice? |
| 17:20.16 | RST38h | No, they designed inefficient instruction set |
| 17:20.20 | lardman | ah ok |
| 17:20.28 | RST38h | That does not well express what people want to do |
| 17:20.53 | RST38h | It is a freaking university project, not a production design |
| 17:21.04 | lardman | :) |
| 17:21.22 | RST38h | So, on expensive workstations, these problems are offset by huge caches and fast memory |
| 17:22.07 | RST38h | But once you cut down the caches and use normal consumer grade 133MHz SDRAM (or mDDR), the performance goes straight to hell |
| 17:22.11 | lardman | so why was it adopted then? |
| 17:22.32 | RST38h | The design is free, it is cheap to produce, so lots of Chinese make and use it |
| 17:23.01 | RST38h | And for low performance uses, it works well enough. I have one of those Chinese systems on my desk |
| 17:23.11 | lardman | ok |
| 17:23.22 | *** part/#maemo thux (i=thux@irkki.fi) |
| 17:23.23 | RST38h | ICNexus, MIPS chip, runs Linux, starts X11/XFCE on its little 640x460 screen |
| 17:23.49 | RST38h | Runs fine, has even gone Xine compiled for it, but waaaaay slow |
| 17:23.57 | RST38h | s/gone/got |
| 17:24.57 | RST38h | When comparing it to ARM instruction set, you can clearly see that the designers were fixing shortcomings of the MIPS design, and largely succeeded |
| 17:24.57 | javispedro | from what I read it doesn't run linux but a custom kernel, I though otherwise. |
| 17:25.17 | javispedro | which may explain why it reached high performance with such low specs |
| 17:25.23 | RST38h | javis: Doesn't matter, at the end it runs binary code, and does it slowly |
| 17:25.26 | lardman | hmm, how are these supposed to work?: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/hildon/hildon-Additions-to-GTK+.html#HildonPortraitFlags |
| 17:25.58 | javispedro | conny discovered it. |
| 17:26.05 | javispedro | you may want to search for his -developers post |
| 17:26.10 | lardman | ok |
| 17:26.13 | RST38h | lardman: SUPPORT will tell wm that your window can be rotated |
| 17:26.20 | javispedro | iirc he made a wiki entry, but I don't remember where. |
| 17:26.27 | RST38h | REQUEST will tell wm that you do not suppor tlandscape at all |
| 17:26.31 | lardman | yeah, but from the wording it looks like I can only choose one or the other, not both |
| 17:26.42 | qwerty12 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Using_Fremantle_Widgets#Portrait_Mode |
| 17:26.42 | RST38h | why choose both? |
| 17:26.52 | javispedro | qwerty12++ :) |
| 17:26.55 | lardman | well because my app will be able to support both |
| 17:27.01 | RST38h | semantically, choosing both makes no sense |
| 17:27.10 | RST38h | lardman: Both morientations? that is SUPPORT |
| 17:27.41 | javispedro | "That means that to get a rotated desktop all visible windows must have the HILDON_PORTRAIT_MODE_SUPPORT flag set to 1 and at least one of them must have the HILDON_PORTRAIT_MODE_REQUEST flag set to true." |
| 17:28.07 | lardman | RST38h: that's what I thought, but the wording indicates that that will stick it there |
| 17:28.16 | lardman | ah well, I'll just set it and see what happens |
| 17:28.23 | lardman | qwerty12: thanks for the link btw :) |
| 17:29.02 | RST38h | javis: sounds weird |
| 17:29.29 | javispedro | the weird thing is that the wm doesn't "request" portrait when rotated |
| 17:29.37 | javispedro | other than that, it's mostly what you explained. |
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| 17:29.56 | lardman | so this should work? hildon_gtk_window_set_portrait_flags(*window, HILDON_PORTRAIT_MODE_SUPPORT); |
| 17:29.58 | javispedro | it's up to individual apps to request portrait when required. |
| 17:30.02 | lardman | ignore the odd *window stuff |
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| 17:30.48 | javispedro | the autorotating stuff should be a candidate for libhildonextras |
| 17:31.51 | RST38h | It is all messed up :( |
| 17:32.05 | RST38h | would expect WM simply resize his windows on rotation |
| 17:32.28 | javispedro | heh I was right it the a320 used linux |
| 17:32.40 | javispedro | the guy says the linux one goes faster than the custom kernel one. |
| 17:32.56 | RST38h | javis: Ah, forget him, go for the sharper guy =) |
| 17:33.01 | RST38h | That one is funnier |
| 17:33.34 | javispedro | I tried the linux one or so the owner said me. |
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| 17:34.02 | RST38h | does it play GBA games at full speed based on sw emulation alone then? :) |
| 17:34.15 | javispedro | it plays them "like ZSNES". |
| 17:34.21 | javispedro | .. |
| 17:34.29 | SpeedEvil | I thought it just transported large numbers of people over large distances quite fast. |
| 17:34.56 | luke-jr | my GameBoy Advance plays GBA games at full speed :) |
| 17:34.58 | luke-jr | runs |
| 17:35.23 | javispedro | my guess is that the dingoo's custom kernel one is snes9x while the "linux" one is drpocketsnes (as usual). |
| 17:35.29 | javispedro | so no surprises. |
| 17:35.51 | lardman | actually iirc the a320 does use Linux |
| 17:36.05 | lardman | as I've seen in the inflight entertainment system crash |
| 17:36.08 | lardman | ;) |
| 17:36.31 | javispedro | post that to tmo just to confuse them ;) |
| 17:36.49 | lardman | lol yeah |
| 17:37.25 | javispedro | well I can't outcompete "it feels like ZSNES" so end of discussion. |
| 17:39.51 | RST38h | lardman: I have seen it start X11 |
| 17:40.07 | RST38h | lardman: with the X cursor and all |
| 17:40.13 | lardman | yeah, sounds about right |
| 17:40.20 | lardman | bbiab |
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| 17:53.05 | javispedro | RST38h: oh, cmon. I can think of one workload where Java is faster than C. |
| 17:53.26 | crashanddie | javispedro, development? |
| 17:53.40 | javispedro | bah, that's subjective. |
| 17:53.41 | crashanddie | javispedro, segfaults? |
| 17:54.06 | javispedro | not really. |
| 17:54.09 | javispedro | but |
| 17:54.12 | javispedro | the equivalent of |
| 17:54.46 | javispedro | const int max = A_LOT; for (int i = 0; i < max; i++) { void * m = malloc(60); } should be faster on Java. |
| 17:54.55 | javispedro | ;) |
| 17:55.22 | crashanddie | that is, until you reach the VM heap maximum |
| 17:55.27 | crashanddie | at which point if would just fail |
| 17:55.34 | crashanddie | it would** |
| 17:55.41 | javispedro | well the C version would fail then too. |
| 17:55.46 | jaska | iirc you cant even change the heap maximum runtime :| |
| 17:55.49 | crashanddie | excepted C doesn't have a heap ;) |
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| 17:55.57 | crashanddie | jaska, you can, actually |
| 17:55.58 | javispedro | the c library does. |
| 17:56.06 | crashanddie | javispedro, it does? |
| 17:56.10 | javispedro | malloc / free |
| 17:56.16 | javispedro | that's a heap. |
| 17:56.22 | javispedro | not garbage collected of course, but a heap. |
| 17:56.24 | jaska | crashanddie: o.O, last time i looked i didnt figure out how to |
| 17:56.34 | jaska | then again im no java guy |
| 17:58.24 | crashanddie | javispedro, what I meant was: the Java VM has a pre-allocated chunk of memory |
| 17:58.40 | crashanddie | javispedro, so memory assignment is just an internal process, whereas C needs to "ask" it from the OS |
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| 17:59.11 | javispedro | well If that's the case it is a limitation of the VM, not anything perse. |
| 17:59.37 | javispedro | maybe because changing heap size at runtime on a generational gc is hard. |
| 17:59.42 | javispedro | s/hard/complex |
| 17:59.50 | javispedro | but shouldn't... |
| 18:00.05 | javispedro | hum.. |
| 18:00.08 | javispedro | cometothinkofit |
| 18:00.13 | javispedro | java can change the heap size at runtime! |
| 18:00.21 | javispedro | I mean, the sun JVM does. There's a min and max settings. |
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| 18:02.35 | RST38h | javis: ohmygodrunforthehills |
| 18:02.48 | RST38h | remembers how KVM creates a new heap in each function |
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| 18:03.04 | RST38h | And destroys it at exit, apparently as the last ditch attempt to control memory leaks |
| 18:03.05 | lcukn900 | waves from kebab shop |
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| 18:03.16 | RST38h | moo lcuk |
| 18:03.20 | RST38h | happy kebab time =) |
| 18:04.19 | javispedro | well, my own stupid VM's "new" func is implemented as "void *p = stackP; stackP += request; return p" ;) |
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| 18:04.41 | javispedro | er.. stackP is a stupid name here but you get the idea |
| 18:05.10 | javispedro | and malloc performance is everything! I will rule the world! |
| 18:05.14 | javispedro | hides |
| 18:07.09 | RST38h | javis: you remember that test that showed Java being faster than C++? |
| 18:07.41 | Proteous | pics or it didn't happen... |
| 18:07.44 | javispedro | RST38h: which one? |
| 18:07.45 | RST38h | by as much as 30% |
| 18:08.08 | Proteous | maybe 30% or more |
| 18:08.18 | javispedro | cause there's like a hundred of them... (there's quite a lot of academics that want to put java back on supercomputing centers...) |
| 18:08.18 | RST38h | javis: Well, they basically took a few web-bound applications, programmed them in Java and C++ (similar code) and showed how Java was 30% faster |
| 18:08.55 | javispedro | "web-bound"? |
| 18:08.58 | javispedro | heh. |
| 18:08.58 | RST38h | javis: Closer examination revealed that these apps did a lot of memory allocations (strings! web is all about strings) |
| 18:09.23 | javispedro | there's also an interesting point where the sun jvm performs well |
| 18:09.27 | RST38h | javis: And GCC memory allocator just hasn't been tuned well enough. Java memory allocator obviously was |
| 18:09.39 | lcukn900 | rst happens everywhere |
| 18:09.48 | javispedro | runtime inlining -- don't understimate it specially when gcc doesn't use intercompilation unit optimizations |
| 18:10.01 | RST38h | lcuk: Not everywhere can you get rights to claim that "java is faster than c++" though :) |
| 18:10.21 | RST38h | javis: does nothing to those new's and delete's |
| 18:10.42 | RST38h | javis: Using memory pools does help though, but it is usually application-specific approach |
| 18:11.07 | RST38h | javis: But forget all that, in GCC they all end up with malloc()s |
| 18:11.22 | RST38h | Or did, anyway |
| 18:11.25 | javispedro | yeah, but sometimes makes the jvm perform much better in smaller benchmarks -- until you add -fwhole-program to the C program flags |
| 18:11.38 | Flandry | man i love this channel |
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| 18:12.09 | javispedro | Flandry: it IS lovely :) |
| 18:12.18 | RST38h | javis: Dunno, frankly I have not seen that happen ever. |
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| 18:12.38 | RST38h | javis: I did see Java applet crash Linux once though =) |
| 18:12.49 | Proteous | I have never not seen it not happen sometimes |
| 18:13.04 | javispedro | heh |
| 18:15.45 | RST38h | Four more votes needed for Speccy |
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| 18:16.04 | kkito | hello |
| 18:16.12 | javispedro | RST38h: i've seen it happen specially in non-serious benchmarks. Cause every C++ serious benchmarks doesn't abuse virtual functions where performance is required etc. |
| 18:16.22 | kkito | i am programming a videogame for n900 |
| 18:16.30 | RST38h | javis: virtual functions impact is somewhat overrated :) |
| 18:16.35 | kkito | i have problems capturing the X event keys |
| 18:16.57 | kkito | i am able to capture mouse press, mouse motion, but no even keyboard key press |
| 18:17.02 | kkito | do you know why? |
| 18:17.12 | javispedro | what toolkit are you using, kkito? |
| 18:17.19 | javispedro | gtk+, qt, sdl, or bare x11? |
| 18:17.23 | kkito | javispedro, i am using Xlib |
| 18:17.49 | javispedro | interesting. can you see if your keypresses go to a background app? |
| 18:17.57 | RST38h | javis: STL is probably worst offender performance wise, because it implicitely uses dynamic memory allocation |
| 18:18.06 | adeus | should it matter? |
| 18:18.13 | RST38h | javis: Then exception handling |
| 18:18.15 | adeus | if you're monitoring the xevent loop |
| 18:18.23 | kkito | javispedro, yes, the contact list |
| 18:18.32 | javispedro | I mean, if while your application is topmost keypresses go to a background window |
| 18:18.44 | javispedro | that means your app is not requesting the input focus, which the fremantle wm seems to care about. |
| 18:18.47 | qwerty12 | kkito: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/55127?page=last |
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| 18:18.56 | Flandry | ah yes, it's time for my daily RFT (request for testers): http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/uqm/0.6.7-0maemo/ |
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| 18:19.47 | javispedro | https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1526&action=view |
| 18:19.54 | javispedro | Input focus, as I though :) |
| 18:19.55 | Flandry | hmm are they really sticking to the demand that all apps have a bugchecker id |
| 18:20.11 | kkito | javispedro, when i press th "a" key (for example), then the contact list window open ups |
| 18:20.14 | Flandry | last discussion i saw of that, it was a discouraged encouragement |
| 18:20.23 | qwerty12 | kkito: Again, http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/55127?page=last |
| 18:20.40 | javispedro | kkito: yeah, that's the input focus problem. look at qwerty12's link and https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1526&action=view |
| 18:21.32 | qwerty12 | can't believe they still haven't applied that patch... |
| 18:21.40 | kkito | ok, i am goint to take look, thx to all! |
| 18:21.40 | qwerty12 | Been a while since I filed it |
| 18:22.06 | javispedro | it should be in upstream doesn't it? |
| 18:23.15 | qwerty12 | has no idea about xev's upstream =) |
| 18:23.35 | javispedro | i guess xorg |
| 18:24.08 | qwerty12 | xev on the N900 gave me problems so, naturally, I just uploaded that patch to Maemo's bugtracker |
| 18:24.33 | javispedro | yes yes, that's good enough. |
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| 18:25.18 | kkito | javispedro, do you know the bug number of the last patch? |
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| 18:25.33 | qwerty12_N810 | bug 5987 |
| 18:25.34 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5987 xev does not catch keypresses on N900 |
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| 18:41.26 | tigert | i think on Home, theres something that grabs kbd events to do the quick contact search / phonecall popup |
| 18:41.28 | Proteous | I caught a keypress once, just about broke my net. |
| 18:41.45 | tigert | maybe that interferes |
| 18:42.26 | tigert | maybe theres a way to make it work, I'd ask on the mailing list -dunno if this has been discussed before |
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| 18:55.21 | qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: I lack the motivation, and - since it uses libhildonfm2 - I can't see how it would be any better :) |
| 18:56.16 | RST38h | qwerty: ah =) |
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| 19:36.58 | Jaffa | Ev'ning |
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| 19:38.42 | pupnik | nes emu runs 200+ fps internally |
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| 19:40.52 | RST38h | moo pupnik |
| 19:42.00 | zerojay | which one? |
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| 19:51.02 | RST38h | "Has Sci-Fi Run Out of Steam?" (C)Slashdot |
| 19:51.14 | Flandry | hmm |
| 19:51.28 | RST38h | (no, idiots, you are just growing out of your favorite sysadmin scifi genres) |
| 19:52.35 | `0660_ | :) |
| 19:52.47 | Flandry | ha |
| 19:53.21 | Flandry | well i think the problem is that the achievable has been narrowed leaving only the unachievable |
| 19:53.34 | Flandry | look at Poul Anderson's later work |
| 19:53.47 | RST38h | You are missing the point ;) |
| 19:54.01 | Flandry | it was all more or less hard science fiction, and always came to the conclusion that human space travel is a doomed endeavor |
| 19:54.36 | Flandry | so the ability of sci fi to motivate and inspire has been reduced by our achievement of the majority of the inspiring bits |
| 19:54.56 | RST38h | Like any other literature, good scifi is about people, not about technology or science |
| 19:55.27 | Flandry | that's neither here nor there by the criterion of the article |
| 19:55.47 | RST38h | So, if you concetrate solely on technology (and all these slashdotters appear to be cyberpunk fans) then you sooner or later run out of steam |
| 19:56.12 | Flandry | Boat of a Million Years is a great example of this |
| 19:56.26 | RST38h | Haven't read it, but there are multiple good examples |
| 19:56.54 | RST38h | They are just more complex than another cyberpunk book about the "cyberspace" |
| 19:57.04 | Flandry | it doesn't concentrate on technology, but on the effect that advancement has on humankind |
| 19:57.22 | RST38h | Well, stuff by Dan Simmons is all like that |
| 19:57.25 | javispedro | if I read another book where cyberspace is the premise i'm going to puke |
| 19:57.26 | Flandry | the human spirit as it were |
| 19:57.35 | RST38h | Some of it is seriously hallucinogenic |
| 19:57.36 | Flandry | i never got into those actually |
| 19:57.43 | Flandry | haven't even read snow crash |
| 19:57.44 | RST38h | Try them |
| 19:57.52 | Flandry | meh |
| 19:57.57 | RST38h | also have not read Snow Crash. Tried but was turned off |
| 19:58.13 | crashanddie | god Assassin's Creed II is a good game |
| 19:58.28 | RST38h | China Mieville also writes decent stuff, not sure what drugs he is on though |
| 19:58.34 | lardman|afk | crashanddie: really? |
| 19:58.47 | crashanddie | lardman|afk, yeah, I love it |
| 19:58.48 | lardman|afk | crashanddie: last one was rather repetitive |
| 19:58.58 | crashanddie | lardman|afk, got it yesterday evening, played 12 hours straight |
| 19:59.04 | lardman | bloody hell |
| 19:59.12 | Flandry | i like sci fi as an ensign of the human spirit, not an exploration of alternative realities/lifestyles |
| 19:59.17 | microlith | ponders an on-device answering machine for the N900 |
| 19:59.18 | crashanddie | lardman, they added a monetary system which really changes the whole game |
| 19:59.28 | lardman | I bought CoD Modern Warfare 2 the other day |
| 19:59.29 | Flandry | Heinlein walked the line usually |
| 19:59.32 | lardman | nice game |
| 19:59.34 | crashanddie | lardman, yeah, got that too |
| 19:59.41 | crashanddie | lardman, solo is too short though |
| 19:59.47 | crashanddie | lardman, PS3 or xbox? |
| 19:59.57 | lardman | PC |
| 20:00.00 | crashanddie | damn |
| 20:00.31 | lardman | I need an nVidia 260 or higher for work, so should make the graphics even better :) |
| 20:00.46 | crashanddie | lardman, so basically, in AC2, there's one city that you can invest in, so that for example, you upgrade the bank, a few stores and build a brothel, and suddenly the whole city changes, everything looks a lot nicer |
| 20:01.07 | Flandry | heheh the brothel really spruces things up eh? |
| 20:01.10 | crashanddie | lardman, after that, it brings you a steady income, and now that I've upgraded everything in the city, it basically pays for all my skills upgrades |
| 20:01.12 | lardman | oh right, you can invest money? |
| 20:01.24 | lardman | what about game play though? |
| 20:01.39 | lardman | I didn't much like the fighting in the last one, plus the endless repetition of the missions was boring |
| 20:01.40 | Chani | worries |
| 20:01.41 | crashanddie | because when you steal from people, it makes you "known" from the guards, and there's posters of you and stuff |
| 20:02.05 | crashanddie | lardman, well, fighting is pretty much the same, even though there's a lot of variation in the actions you can do |
| 20:02.18 | Chani | so I woke up this morning because my n900 made a funny noise. it's plugged into my laptop but still had the orange charging light. it wasn't responding. |
| 20:02.22 | crashanddie | that being said, because you've got that much more items at your disposition, you don't actually have to fight |
| 20:02.51 | crashanddie | just shoot a smoke bomb and run away, dive into the water and swim under water to escape, hire a militia on the fly to stop the guards, etc |
| 20:03.12 | *** join/#maemo zs_ (n=zs@188-220-50-10.zone11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:03.28 | crashanddie | you can also hire some thiefs or hos to distract the guards while you slip through undetected |
| 20:03.40 | Chani | I held down the power button until it turned off... then I tried to turn it back on... I get five dots bouncing back and forth for a coule of seconds, hten the screen goes blank but there's still a blue glow from hte corner light, hten nothing |
| 20:04.16 | Chani | I can see a faint nokia logo on hte screen... |
| 20:04.28 | crashanddie | Chani, pull the usb cable |
| 20:04.33 | crashanddie | Chani, pull the battery |
| 20:04.44 | CoreFusion- | Chani: take the battery off for a while |
| 20:04.54 | Chani | aw crud, it's so hard to get at the battery... |
| 20:05.02 | RST38h | Flandry : can't say much of human spirit |
| 20:05.03 | crashanddie | no it's not |
| 20:05.04 | mikhas | Chani, use a credit card |
| 20:05.27 | crashanddie | Chani, this is a N900, not an iPhone, getting the battery out isn't hard, in comparison |
| 20:05.32 | Chani | pulls it out |
| 20:05.35 | Chani | crashanddie: oh? |
| 20:05.43 | RST38h | Flandry : but the details of the setting (i.e. the alternativeness of reality etc) are kinda arbitrary in good sci fi |
| 20:05.51 | GeneralAntilles | lardman, yeah, 1 was repetitive but the story kept me in through the end. |
| 20:05.59 | Chani | got to play with an iphone for a minute once. it was weird. |
| 20:06.09 | RST38h | Flandry: can be a freaking fairy land with unicorns for all I care :) |
| 20:06.17 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles & lardman: also, now you don't need to get the viewpoints, investigate or beat someone up, and then kill the guy |
| 20:06.18 | GeneralAntilles | lardman, too bad about PC. My friends and I have been reeking havoc on the 360. ;) |
| 20:06.22 | Flandry | sure |
| 20:06.29 | GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, that's nice. |
| 20:06.30 | lardman | GeneralAntilles, crashanddie: I need to go back and continue it really |
| 20:06.43 | RST38h | ok, away |
| 20:06.44 | GeneralAntilles | The viewpoints, while cinematic, got incredibly, stupidly repetitive after a very short time. |
| 20:07.03 | lardman | GeneralAntilles, crashanddie: It's pretty crap that these cross-platform games don't allow cross-platform multiplayer |
| 20:07.10 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 20:07.16 | GeneralAntilles | It makes sense, though |
| 20:07.22 | GeneralAntilles | PC players would completely dominate the console players. |
| 20:07.23 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles & lardman: the game doesn't care about the viewpoints really, you just don't have a map if you don't... even though you still see all the interest points relative to your missions, you just don't see what's around ya |
| 20:07.33 | lardman | GeneralAntilles: why? |
| 20:07.44 | crashanddie | lardman, because keyboard and mouse rocks the casbah? |
| 20:07.47 | GeneralAntilles | lardman, because two joysticks do not a mouse and keyboard make. |
| 20:08.00 | lardman | indeed, so why buy a console I ask myself ;) |
| 20:08.10 | Flandry | indeed |
| 20:08.10 | GeneralAntilles | Price, convenienc |
| 20:08.12 | crashanddie | lardman, because it's a helluva lot cheaper? |
| 20:08.12 | Flandry | i never have |
| 20:08.13 | GeneralAntilles | and social stuff. |
| 20:08.19 | lardman | is it cheaper? |
| 20:08.21 | Flandry | i need a comp anyway |
| 20:08.26 | crashanddie | I paid £250 for the PS3, with 2 games |
| 20:08.26 | GeneralAntilles | An Xbox 360 is $200. |
| 20:08.27 | lardman | I guess so, depends if you need a PC for work or not |
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| 20:08.34 | Chani | :/ now it just doesn't want to turn on. |
| 20:08.36 | crashanddie | lardman, and that's the new one, the slim |
| 20:08.43 | GeneralAntilles | No screwing around with drivers, network cards or running out of hard drive space. |
| 20:08.45 | lardman | yeah fair enough |
| 20:08.52 | GeneralAntilles | Just get online and play |
| 20:09.01 | crashanddie | lardman, plus i get BBC iPlayer in HD on it, bluray, and what not (and also, no cheating bastards) |
| 20:09.02 | GeneralAntilles | Plus, all of my friends have 360s. |
| 20:09.10 | GeneralAntilles | Very few of them have gaming-capable PCs. |
| 20:09.13 | lardman | wonders when a coop Aliens vs Marines game will come out...? |
| 20:09.22 | Chani | I get a solid yellow light if I plug in the usb |
| 20:09.24 | GeneralAntilles | lardman, Gears of War? |
| 20:09.30 | lardman | We used to play at work/uni |
| 20:09.35 | lardman | no like real Aliens |
| 20:09.36 | sp3000 | Chani: use a charger |
| 20:09.43 | sp3000 | for a few minutes |
| 20:09.52 | Chani | sp3000: the usb charger is my only chargere |
| 20:10.05 | crashanddie | Chani, leave it be for a couple of minutes |
| 20:10.05 | lardman | there was supposed to be a coop game coming out where you (or us, our group) could play the Marines, were rather looking forward to that |
| 20:10.14 | GeneralAntilles | lardman, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens:_Colonial_Marines perhaps? |
| 20:10.18 | Chani | poor little thing... |
| 20:10.21 | crashanddie | lardman, like an evo of AvP? |
| 20:10.26 | lardman | crashanddie: yeah |
| 20:10.30 | lardman | GeneralAntilles: sounds about right |
| 20:10.39 | GeneralAntilles | I love coop campaign games. |
| 20:10.42 | lardman | we mod'ed AvP, but wasn't great for coop |
| 20:10.53 | crashanddie | AvP was awesome though |
| 20:11.02 | crashanddie | 3 marines, 1 queen, 20 hours of fun |
| 20:11.17 | GeneralAntilles | lardman, have you tried Tremulous? |
| 20:11.24 | Chani | ooh! picked it up and it vibrated and the light started pulsing. :) |
| 20:11.25 | crashanddie | anyway, getting back to the game |
| 20:11.36 | crashanddie | Chani, that's what she said |
| 20:11.39 | lardman | GeneralAntilles: nope |
| 20:11.41 | Chani | hehehe |
| 20:11.42 | GeneralAntilles | lardman, do. |
| 20:11.56 | crashanddie | oh, and lardman |
| 20:12.02 | lardman | ah, I've heard of it, read about it |
| 20:12.14 | crashanddie | why buy a console? Because it's easier to convince the spouse that you're spending the money on something "everyone will use" |
| 20:12.15 | lardman | now I see the screenie |
| 20:12.27 | lardman | lol |
| 20:12.38 | lardman | well mine wants a wii |
| 20:12.42 | lardman | I think |
| 20:13.06 | GeneralAntilles | Ought to buy one and find out. :P |
| 20:13.16 | lardman | thinks back to the afternoons of Multiplayer Far Cry and Doom3 |
| 20:13.34 | lardman | GeneralAntilles: money doesn't grow on trees ;p |
| 20:13.44 | GeneralAntilles | lardman, oh? Sucks for you, then. :P |
| 20:13.49 | lardman | lol |
| 20:14.03 | GeneralAntilles | waited in line in sub-freezing weather to get a Wii. |
| 20:14.09 | qwerty12_N810 | lardman: No, but they're easily softmodded, so you can - *ahem* - get back the money |
| 20:14.48 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 20:14.51 | GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N810, bad person. |
| 20:15.00 | lardman | the big problem with the wii, the way I see it, is that you should just go out and play the sport you are playing on it, rather than risking your living room furntiure |
| 20:15.00 | GeneralAntilles | But USB loading really does reduce load times. |
| 20:15.02 | crashanddie | lardman, oh, and another reason to buy AC2: Leonardo Da Vincin |
| 20:15.05 | crashanddie | -n |
| 20:15.12 | GeneralAntilles | and it's much nicer not having to rifle through CD cases. |
| 20:15.19 | *** join/#maemo sjaensch (n=sj@mgdb-4db8cf3b.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 20:15.27 | GeneralAntilles | lardman, Wii Sports is only a small part of the Wii's appeal. ;) |
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| 20:15.43 | GeneralAntilles | Zelda and Mario are in there, too. |
| 20:15.44 | crashanddie | lardman, wii sports is fun with multiple people, it really can be super fun, for any kind of group age |
| 20:15.52 | GeneralAntilles | (Super Mario Bros Wii is absolutely amazing) |
| 20:15.54 | crashanddie | (no surprise there that they sold 50 million units) |
| 20:15.59 | lardman | thinks of real sports being super fun, etc., etc |
| 20:16.14 | lardman | :) |
| 20:16.25 | crashanddie | lardman, yeah, but how many of your mates come round for a beer or dinner and you then go, "let's go play some tennis, you brought your racket with?" |
| 20:16.38 | lardman | not many, true |
| 20:16.39 | crashanddie | It's not about playing the sport |
| 20:16.42 | crashanddie | it's about having fun |
| 20:17.09 | crashanddie | same as when you play a video game where you mass murder 300 civilians, it really isn't something you'd do because you're bored on a saturday afternoon |
| 20:17.16 | crashanddie | (MW2) |
| 20:17.24 | lardman | true |
| 20:17.34 | lardman | well, probably depends on what you have available |
| 20:18.28 | lardman | so, wii probably the best bet for "fun" gaming, rather than serious, which I'd do on the PC anyway |
| 20:18.30 | lardman | ? |
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| 20:19.02 | GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, you don't mass murder anybody. |
| 20:19.16 | GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, I fired all of 50 rounds in that mission and none of them were at civilians. |
| 20:19.25 | GeneralAntilles | lardman, generally speaking. |
| 20:19.32 | GeneralAntilles | lardman, although it has its share of serious stuff, too. |
| 20:19.34 | lardman | going back OT for a moment, can I disable an edit/entry widget so I can select and copy from it,. but not edit it? |
| 20:19.42 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, talking about playing online, I mass murder everyone <-- leet playa |
| 20:19.48 | GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, ha, sure. |
| 20:19.56 | lardman | GeneralAntilles: just thinking of the wife really, and I'll doubtless play it too :) |
| 20:19.58 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, jk, I destroyed those headless chicken in the airport |
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| 20:20.09 | lardman | any sword/stick fighting games? |
| 20:20.15 | lardman | doesn't do that enough in the real world |
| 20:20.53 | GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, by the way, everybody's a "leet playa" in their own eyes. :P |
| 20:20.56 | GeneralAntilles | Just ask qwerty12. |
| 20:22.28 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, Actually, I used to be pretty good at CS back in the day |
| 20:22.34 | qwerty12_N810 | lardman: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/gtk/GtkEditable.html#gtk-editable-set-editable |
| 20:22.53 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, was in ATR, top10 FR, went to the CPL in 2002 (won't say my ranking though) |
| 20:23.15 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, but now, I really don't play "for da frags" anymore, I just want to enjoy myself |
| 20:23.30 | qwerty12_N810 | Too much info =) |
| 20:23.31 | lardman | qwerty12_N810: thanks, missed that |
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| 20:25.52 | GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, as long as I'm maintaining a positive KDR I'm good. ;) |
| 20:26.05 | GeneralAntilles | Got some dead-weight friends to compensate for. |
| 20:26.07 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, I'm not even pos in MW2 |
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| 20:26.22 | lardman | what's KDR? |
| 20:26.25 | *** join/#maemo eocanha (n=eocanha@130.152.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 20:26.27 | lardman | Kills to Death ratio? |
| 20:26.30 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah |
| 20:26.37 | GeneralAntilles | Hovering around 1.5 here. |
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| 20:28.33 | lardman | http://wiki.maemo.org/Using_Fremantle_Widgets#Portrait_Mode is confusing |
| 20:28.55 | lardman | is the recommended method to listen for the orientation messages, or the screen size change ones? |
| 20:29.00 | GeneralAntilles | Finnglish! |
| 20:29.04 | *** join/#maemo philosopher (i=84cce8c2@gateway/web/freenode/x-zahgsiwyrttljenk) |
| 20:29.18 | qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: camelCase! |
| 20:29.19 | *** join/#maemo choppa (n=choppa@pD95F07A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:29.26 | philosopher | do you guys think maemo need a beter sdk/develloping platform to attract more coders ? |
| 20:29.35 | *** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@86.56.57.78) |
| 20:29.36 | GeneralAntilles | philosopher, yes. |
| 20:29.47 | lcuk | yes |
| 20:29.52 | philosopher | and is there work on that from nokia ? |
| 20:30.01 | lcuk | well, not in some ways |
| 20:30.03 | philosopher | maybe a higher language than c/c++ |
| 20:30.13 | GeneralAntilles | philosopher, that's not the answer. |
| 20:30.14 | lcuk | the language isnt the problem |
| 20:30.21 | GeneralAntilles | Something that ins't obnoxious and irritating to install and use |
| 20:30.22 | qwerty12_N810 | philosopher: ATM, I think Maemo needs an app store that has not had its policies designed by an idiot |
| 20:30.29 | GeneralAntilles | and actually supports a number of platforms. |
| 20:30.35 | lcuk | the current nice gui sdk installs cleanly now with minimum of fuss |
| 20:30.49 | GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N810, s/idiot/team of lawyers/ |
| 20:31.40 | philosopher | actually the sdk doesnt work for me |
| 20:31.47 | lardman | the issue there is that they've not bothered to change the rules isn't it? |
| 20:31.52 | GeneralAntilles | Grab the VM |
| 20:31.52 | qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: When I have to admit Apple has done it better, it makes me cry inside :) |
| 20:31.55 | lardman | philosopher: how so? |
| 20:32.04 | philosopher | but what i meant is that it seems that android and iphone Os avec better developent env than maemo |
| 20:32.10 | GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N810, Apple often does things better. |
| 20:32.18 | lcuk | better is subjective |
| 20:32.22 | GeneralAntilles | The compromises you have to make for it though are often disagreeable. |
| 20:32.24 | philosopher | lardman: just hang-up every time i try using firefox |
| 20:32.39 | lardman | inside scratchbox? |
| 20:32.43 | lcuk | you can build everything in the current sdk |
| 20:32.44 | philosopher | yes |
| 20:32.53 | philosopher | with vmwre and ubuntu |
| 20:32.53 | lardman | philosopher: well that's not really what it's for |
| 20:33.09 | philosopher | lardman: really ? i missed something then |
| 20:33.18 | lardman | have you cross-compiled firefox for the device? |
| 20:33.28 | lardman | and are now trying to run it from within sb? |
| 20:33.45 | lardman | which target? armel or x86? |
| 20:34.09 | lcuk | grabs bottle of wine and offers to folks |
| 20:34.15 | lardman | yes please! |
| 20:34.17 | lardman | :) |
| 20:34.23 | lcuk | nods |
| 20:34.40 | *** join/#maemo AD-N770 (n=jep@24.Red-80-26-22.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 20:34.41 | lcuk | pours glass to the brim and necks it |
| 20:34.44 | philosopher | armel |
| 20:34.55 | lardman | armel emulation has issues |
| 20:34.58 | philosopher | but i thought the sdk contain already a ready image of maemo ? |
| 20:35.00 | lardman | best to test on device really |
| 20:35.08 | lardman | not afaiu anyway |
| 20:35.20 | philosopher | GeneralAntilles: compromise ? |
| 20:35.20 | lcuk | philosopher, it contains a close enough version |
| 20:35.25 | lcuk | with web browser and apps |
| 20:35.50 | lcuk | on your x86 machine i believe you are still best running the x86 target |
| 20:35.52 | GeneralAntilles | philosopher, you loose freedom for a functional ecosystem. |
| 20:36.10 | philosopher | GeneralAntilles: functional ecosystem ? |
| 20:36.12 | *** join/#maemo amrileria (i=54fbd5d9@gateway/web/freenode/x-wblttujxjbiymupx) |
| 20:36.22 | lcuk | functional ecosystem? |
| 20:36.49 | qwerty12_N810 | functional ecosystem? |
| 20:38.23 | lardman | goes for more wine ;) |
| 20:38.41 | *** join/#maemo frogger (n=frogger@76.73.16.26) |
| 20:38.54 | Shapeshifter | is standing in front of the NYC flagship store. |
| 20:38.54 | andre__ | wine! good idea... |
| 20:39.06 | Shapeshifter | ....on google street view |
| 20:39.11 | lcuk | Shapeshifter, excellent are you buying? |
| 20:39.15 | lcuk | doh! |
| 20:39.18 | Shapeshifter | xD |
| 20:39.51 | Shapeshifter | there's a huge UPS van blocking the view. |
| 20:40.13 | lcuk | n900 delivery? |
| 20:40.14 | qwerty12_N810 | is sitting in his house, on his sofa, watching the Shit Factor, with his N810 and N900 in his hands |
| 20:40.30 | philosopher | GeneralAntilles: ? |
| 20:41.41 | philosopher | so anyone think nokia need to adopt like mono or java as an offical languages ? |
| 20:42.01 | Shapeshifter | there's a loot of taxis in NYC |
| 20:42.36 | microlith | philosopher: no, very much no |
| 20:42.48 | philosopher | really ? |
| 20:42.51 | philosopher | purist ? |
| 20:42.53 | qwerty12_N810 | philosopher: Just you? |
| 20:43.09 | philosopher | not just asking actually i am a c/c++ develloper |
| 20:43.31 | philosopher | but most app develloper dont like c/c++ |
| 20:43.53 | lcuk | adopting a new language would be a massive undertaking and would require a substantial retooling whilst also making sure the underlying framework still existed: for reference look at the move to qt |
| 20:44.20 | luke-jr | philosopher: Mono/Java suck |
| 20:44.31 | philosopher | luke-jr: is trolling ? |
| 20:44.36 | lardman | good lord, X-Factor is the biggest pile of bollocks I've ever had the misfortune to walk in and watch a couple of minutes of while pouring myself a glass of wine |
| 20:44.36 | luke-jr | the real world works in C and such |
| 20:44.49 | lcuk | hey luke-jr you see ms opened up the mini .net framework under apache license? |
| 20:44.58 | luke-jr | lcuk: like I care? |
| 20:44.59 | lcuk | or micro/nano or whatever its called |
| 20:45.08 | philosopher | lcuk: good point but isnt that really neccessary to get the kind of cusual developer that meamo needs ? |
| 20:45.11 | lcuk | its open source tho |
| 20:45.14 | luke-jr | so? |
| 20:45.20 | luke-jr | it's still .NET :p |
| 20:45.24 | lardman | likes C |
| 20:45.27 | lcuk | philosopher, readup on python |
| 20:45.30 | philosopher | luke-jr: you are making pointless argument... |
| 20:45.45 | lcuk | casual devs can use that, less causal ones will stick with cobol or lisp |
| 20:45.55 | lardman | nah, assembly |
| 20:46.03 | qwerty12_N810 | lardman: I thought you were a MATLAB guy? :) |
| 20:46.17 | lcuk | matlab is c++ isnt it |
| 20:46.23 | lardman | yeah for most stuff, but when I have to write something fast I turn back to old school C or FORTRAN |
| 20:46.34 | qwerty12_N810 | Heh |
| 20:47.13 | lardman | and MATLAB's pretty quick actually, C is only 2x as fast |
| 20:47.17 | lcuk | adores C, detests the boilerplate and padding around the useful parts |
| 20:47.42 | philosopher | actually the .net compact is not opensource |
| 20:47.44 | *** join/#maemo andre_ (n=andre@g1.blanicka25.net) |
| 20:47.51 | lcuk | i never said compact |
| 20:48.12 | lardman | sounds like something with a mirror + sponge in it |
| 20:48.36 | lardman | s/sponge/poof |
| 20:48.54 | philosopher | lcuk: was talking about mono ? |
| 20:49.33 | philosopher | so if i understand you guys think that c++/c is the languages needs |
| 20:49.38 | lcuk | no, i was talking about the .net micro framework used in embedded systems (like the MS clock) its a minimal super tight .net implementation |
| 20:49.43 | lcuk | and looks supercool tbh |
| 20:50.03 | lardman | philosopher: no, Python or similar would be better to get people programming really |
| 20:50.13 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=Miranda@80-240-220-132.dnat.migtel.ru) |
| 20:50.26 | philosopher | lcuk: but pointless when your platform have an oss |
| 20:50.49 | philosopher | lardman: hummm maybe |
| 20:51.28 | lardman | well, something simple, and Python is reasonably so |
| 20:51.28 | philosopher | i ll give it a try never programmed in python |
| 20:51.29 | lcuk | philosopher, you rightly pointed out java/monoetc. i like the language of .net |
| 20:51.52 | lardman | that's because you've had the misfortune to program for Windows recently ;) |
| 20:52.09 | philosopher | lol |
| 20:52.21 | philosopher | lardman: have try c# and .net dev env ? |
| 20:52.22 | lcuk | you told us you enjoyed it |
| 20:52.28 | lcuk | you came in chan every night happy as larry |
| 20:52.35 | lcuk | "ohhh look i got to build a form today!" |
| 20:52.45 | lardman | oi, stop tarnishing my good name! |
| 20:52.58 | lardman | I did have to embrace VB (6) once again the other day though |
| 20:53.06 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 20:53.10 | lcuk | see |
| 20:53.16 | lcuk | hi javis |
| 20:53.33 | lcuk | gets back to scratchbox anyway |
| 20:53.43 | qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: You? Scratchbox? |
| 20:53.45 | lardman | so I guess it's comparatively better ;) |
| 20:53.54 | lcuk | :) yes |
| 20:54.45 | javispedro | hi lcuk |
| 20:54.48 | philosopher | so what should i download to start mamoe dev ? |
| 20:55.06 | frogger | does someone can give me a hint how to get the selected text in the GtkEntry widget ? |
| 20:55.07 | frogger | does someone can give me a hint how to get the selected text in the GtkEntry widget ? |
| 20:55.12 | javispedro | philosopher: the SDK |
| 20:55.21 | lardman | philosopher: what do you want to program? |
| 20:55.26 | lardman | philosopher: what sort of apps? |
| 20:55.42 | philosopher | lardman: no clue just testing how the dev env is |
| 20:56.44 | lardman | I see |
| 20:57.06 | lardman | well you could do Python on-device, or anywhere else you wanted, as long as you test on device |
| 20:57.55 | lcuk | philosopher, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation |
| 20:57.59 | lcuk | if you are in linux |
| 20:58.03 | philosopher | dont i need a set library for biding ? |
| 20:58.16 | javispedro | actually likes sbox |
| 20:58.28 | javispedro | then the only other embedded toolchain I've used is the oldie palmos one, so... |
| 20:58.34 | *** join/#maemo ab (n=ab@pdpc/supporter/professional/ab) |
| 20:58.38 | lardman | philosopher: Python in interpreted |
| 20:58.43 | lardman | s/in/is |
| 20:58.57 | philosopher | lcuk: that what i did , but i thought someone said that the sdk wasnt for develloping ? |
| 20:59.25 | *** join/#maemo gunni_ (n=quassel@xdsl-213-196-229-26.netcologne.de) |
| 20:59.27 | lcuk | its a TLA, (S)oftware (D)evelopment (K)it |
| 20:59.38 | lcuk | you decide |
| 20:59.44 | philosopher | lardman: yes... that why i beileve that maemo could rely on it for heavy development |
| 21:00.06 | lardman | it's slower than C/C++ though, and the bindings are not all present |
| 21:00.08 | javispedro | considering on of the complais of android is the fact everything is interpreted... |
| 21:00.11 | javispedro | s/on/one |
| 21:00.16 | javispedro | s/complais/complaints |
| 21:00.20 | philosopher | lcuk ok now i am confuse .... |
| 21:00.24 | lcuk | its java isnt it |
| 21:00.35 | javispedro | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:00.47 | javispedro | being java I though they would just ship a x86 dalvik |
| 21:01.00 | philosopher | i said that the sdk didnt work for me and hangup anytime i use firefox in the scratchbox |
| 21:01.11 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 21:01.12 | javispedro | firefox in the scratchbox? |
| 21:01.20 | timeless_mbp | so... are people using mxr.maemo.org yet? |
| 21:01.32 | timeless_mbp | javispedro: fwiw, that will definitely fail soon if it doesn't yet |
| 21:01.34 | philosopher | javispedro: yes |
| 21:01.41 | timeless_mbp | firefox jit requires armvSomething |
| 21:01.49 | timeless_mbp | and last i checked qemu's armv support was lame |
| 21:02.03 | javispedro | timeless: I used it a bit a few days ago, search for some clutter or hildon-desktop related stuff iirc. worked fine. |
| 21:02.18 | timeless_mbp | javispedro: =) |
| 21:02.26 | timeless_mbp | please advertise it |
| 21:02.32 | GeneralAntilles | philosopher, dear god no Java. |
| 21:02.36 | timeless_mbp | it can save people a lot of time/trouble |
| 21:02.44 | timeless_mbp | and it can certainly save me a lot of frustration |
| 21:03.00 | *** join/#maemo concept10 (n=concept1@cpe-24-242-248-145.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 21:03.01 | javispedro | agreed, a pretty useful tool. |
| 21:03.36 | crashanddie | javispedro, Android supports native C |
| 21:03.39 | javispedro | philosopher: why do you want to run firefox in scratchbox? or do you mean the "Maemo Browser"? |
| 21:03.59 | philosopher | javispedro: yea maemo browser i meant |
| 21:04.20 | GeneralAntilles | Newegg claimed Mozilla developed the Maemo 5 browser. |
| 21:04.30 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: You sound like RST38h |
| 21:04.44 | javispedro | crashanddie: I know, but this shows Google cares about people using native C. |
| 21:04.48 | lcuk | timeless, how best to advertise. we know of it and use it on random intervals as developers, and when someone is asking code related questions we can guide them there |
| 21:04.57 | Jaffa | crashanddie: Does it have direct access to any useful libraries, or do you have to go back up to Java and down again? |
| 21:04.59 | timeless_mbp | shrugs |
| 21:05.07 | javispedro | else why they would ship an slow as molasses emulator when a quick x86 dalvik would've done a much better job? |
| 21:05.10 | timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: wah |
| 21:05.12 | crashanddie | Jaffa, nha, you actually get some useful libraries |
| 21:05.36 | philosopher | GeneralAntilles: why not java ? |
| 21:05.37 | Jaffa | crashanddie: ah, cool. |
| 21:05.51 | javispedro | Jaffa: at least you can output to fb0 without going back to Java. Sound's another story. |
| 21:05.56 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, as official platform language, though? |
| 21:06.11 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, support is fine, but turning the platform into Android is not a direction I want to see things go in. |
| 21:06.12 | crashanddie | Jaffa, I've seen DMA, file access, and some low-level devices interaction, so I'm guessing it really depends on how well you manage to convince them to give you access really |
| 21:06.33 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Official; don't mind. And I can see why Nokia wants to focus on Qt (with C++) as the official (with WRT) language. |
| 21:06.52 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: And it won't anytime soon. |
| 21:07.03 | Jaffa | Something of the same quality of PyMaemo but in Java would be nice, though. |
| 21:07.05 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, clearly, but what I was responding to is important context here. :P |
| 21:07.05 | lcuk | wrt runs javascript doesnt it *grin* |
| 21:07.09 | crashanddie | Jaffa, are you going to work with C++ and Qt to have fun after coming back from work? |
| 21:07.23 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: There's a lot of scrollback to read ;-) |
| 21:07.37 | Jaffa | crashanddie: I think I might be focussing on the Python/Qt route a bit more ;-) |
| 21:07.43 | crashanddie | guys, should I go for pizza, quarter pounder or anything else (not inspired on food) |
| 21:07.49 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, then probably not worth continuing to discuss the subject. |
| 21:08.03 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: I agreed with you <shrug/> |
| 21:08.05 | Jaffa | crashanddie: pizza |
| 21:08.30 | GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, pizza. |
| 21:08.47 | GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, unless you're talking about a quality burger. |
| 21:08.55 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, don't forget my request :P |
| 21:09.07 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, not really |
| 21:09.12 | crashanddie | but pizzas are shit in the UK |
| 21:09.16 | lcuk | crashanddie, i second pizza |
| 21:09.23 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, what's your request? |
| 21:09.27 | lcuk | agreed, but burgers are worse |
| 21:09.33 | GeneralAntilles | Sucks to be you guys. |
| 21:09.40 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, no it doesn;t |
| 21:09.47 | GeneralAntilles | can find both excellent pizzas and excellent burgers within 5 minutes of here. |
| 21:09.49 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, i'll be in aus soon, so fuck UK pizzas xD |
| 21:10.04 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, test my app with MAC OS :) |
| 21:10.04 | qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie: He's just pissed at Florida having shit 3G |
| 21:10.19 | lcuk | 3g, how old |
| 21:10.22 | crashanddie | qwerty12_N810, and moskitos |
| 21:10.24 | lcuk | i have 3.5g here |
| 21:10.29 | RST38h | General: how about French crepes though? |
| 21:10.30 | crashanddie | qwerty12_N810, and swamps |
| 21:10.44 | crashanddie | qwerty12_N810, and no decent clubs or city |
| 21:10.51 | crashanddie | qwerty12_N810, and no decent university |
| 21:10.52 | lardman | crashanddie: no more pizzas for you mate, pies + sauce |
| 21:10.56 | andre_ | "i have 3.5g here" sounds like 3,5 grams of some drugs to me |
| 21:11.01 | lcuk | qwerty can you have the phone G rating, and up it to 6 or 7 G ? |
| 21:11.01 | qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: Precisely! They don't even have that! |
| 21:11.10 | qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie: Hehe |
| 21:11.14 | lcuk | lol andre_ well what i just said makes it sound worse |
| 21:11.44 | VDVsx | anyone with a PS3 and a N900 that can test something for me ? :P |
| 21:11.48 | crashanddie | lardman, didn't catch the sense of that |
| 21:12.04 | lardman | you ever been to Australia? |
| 21:12.17 | crashanddie | lardman, do you mean "I need to only eat pies + sauce to remind me of the horrendous UK eating habits, or because that's what I'll be getting foreva" |
| 21:12.18 | lardman | tho there are lots of Italian and Greek restaurants of course |
| 21:12.24 | qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: Meh, I keep mine in 2G :p |
| 21:12.28 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, oh, right, that. |
| 21:12.28 | lardman | well that's all you'll be getting |
| 21:12.30 | lardman | :) |
| 21:12.39 | crashanddie | interesting |
| 21:12.39 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, not a rush ;) |
| 21:12.42 | qwerty12_N810 | Ha |
| 21:12.47 | crashanddie | lardman, nope, never been there xD |
| 21:13.05 | *** join/#maemo L0cMini9 (n=kki@94.163.175.238) |
| 21:13.06 | lardman | pies + sauce are good though, staple, especially if you head down to the footie |
| 21:13.26 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, good question, never looked. |
| 21:15.07 | lardman | hmm, all this talk of pies and sauce has made /me hungry |
| 21:15.21 | *** join/#maemo asdm (n=qwerty32@CPE001ad62f17c3-CM001868e79a36.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 21:15.35 | crashanddie | Hahaha |
| 21:15.38 | qwerty12_N810 | lardman: With some wine, of course? |
| 21:15.40 | crashanddie | Just checked my bank statement |
| 21:15.54 | crashanddie | Last week I complained that some website charged too much for the use of the credit card |
| 21:15.59 | lardman | qwerty12_N810: no, at the footie would have to be some beer |
| 21:15.59 | crashanddie | they just refunded 20p |
| 21:16.18 | asdm | I need some help getting a usb device Elm327 to work with N770 and Carman running in host mode |
| 21:16.25 | qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie: Treat yourself: Buy 20 sherbets |
| 21:16.49 | crashanddie | qwerty12_N810, a sherbet is 1p?# |
| 21:17.02 | qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie: Round here, yeah :p |
| 21:17.03 | lardman | how old are you qwerty12_N810, sound like you're from the 50s! |
| 21:17.19 | lardman | back in my day a sherbet was 1/2d |
| 21:17.22 | lardman | etc |
| 21:17.29 | crashanddie | qwerty12_N810, dude, you realise that when they go through the defrosting process of a freezer, that is not the recommended way of making sherbet? |
| 21:17.36 | javispedro | hmm.. crepes... |
| 21:17.39 | crashanddie | qwerty12_N810, oh, and btw, the actual spelling is sorbet |
| 21:17.43 | lardman | no |
| 21:17.48 | lardman | different thing |
| 21:18.05 | qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie: Gah, who said sweets were good for you anyway? :) |
| 21:18.06 | crashanddie | Sherbet, an American term for a frozen dessert like sorbet, but containing a small amount of dairy. |
| 21:18.18 | lardman | what do the Yanks know? |
| 21:18.24 | lardman | they call trousers pants |
| 21:18.26 | GeneralAntilles | Ah, bugzilla hate. |
| 21:18.30 | GeneralAntilles | Gotta love Talk. |
| 21:18.39 | lardman | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherbet_%28powder%29 |
| 21:18.49 | lardman | that's the real deal, sherbet |
| 21:19.03 | javispedro | oh, the sun's java vs android's java discussion is still ongoing. |
| 21:19.04 | crashanddie | lardman, oh |
| 21:19.23 | lardman | heads for the bottle again |
| 21:19.25 | lardman | :) |
| 21:19.39 | GeneralAntilles | andre_, I'd've slaughtered people in that thread by now. |
| 21:20.25 | qwerty12_N810 | Quote (C) Internet Tough Guy |
| 21:21.30 | *** join/#maemo myosound (n=myosound@173.13.200.50) |
| 21:21.45 | andre_ | GeneralAntilles, no, why? I'm patient (some people call it stubborn though) |
| 21:22.11 | crashanddie | andre_, being certain that you're right and "waiting for people to join your line of thinking" isn't patience |
| 21:22.39 | GeneralAntilles | andre_, irrational, unconstructive people irritate me. |
| 21:22.59 | derf | GeneralAntilles: You'd better stay off the internet, then. |
| 21:23.05 | genewitch | RST38h: you mentioned earlier something about lemmings leaving tmo when they got their n900s; what did you mean? is tmo t-mobile? |
| 21:23.06 | GeneralAntilles | derf, Talk, anyway. |
| 21:23.18 | GeneralAntilles | talk.maemo.org |
| 21:23.23 | genewitch | Oh |
| 21:23.30 | asdm | rfcomm -i ohci5 listen 0 1 |
| 21:23.30 | asdm | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:23.45 | genewitch | i just want an n900. i can't stand having to wait this long for something that i should have been able to get a week ago |
| 21:23.46 | andre_ | crashanddie, thanks :-D |
| 21:23.48 | GeneralAntilles | andre_, bug #6272. Off to a fine start, I see. |
| 21:23.49 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6272 User-friendliness fail |
| 21:24.08 | GeneralAntilles | andre_, somebody didn't read the bug writing guidelines, I see. |
| 21:24.10 | RST38h | genewitch: talk.maemo.org |
| 21:24.16 | andre_ | i'll wait until monday to triage that |
| 21:24.25 | andre_ | want some cool rantings first ;-) |
| 21:24.26 | genewitch | RST38h: oh. i see. lemmings. |
| 21:25.25 | RST38h | General: BTW, I found a relevant quote |
| 21:25.31 | *** join/#maemo promulo (n=romulo@189.71.18.199) |
| 21:25.38 | ShadowJK | genewitch, where does your "should" and a week ago come from? :-) |
| 21:25.42 | RST38h | General: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar-log |
| 21:25.47 | RST38h | General: check it out |
| 21:26.33 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, ahaha, that's awesome. |
| 21:26.37 | *** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@54.200.49.122-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 21:26.37 | VDVsx | andre_, that reminds me that I've something for you :P |
| 21:26.45 | RST38h | General: Anyone familiar? =) |
| 21:27.48 | *** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman) |
| 21:29.40 | *** join/#maemo saLOUt (n=rriemann@dslb-088-073-078-034.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:30.24 | andre_ | VDVsx, chocolate? yum yum |
| 21:31.00 | zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Link me to this bugzilla hate thread. |
| 21:31.28 | GeneralAntilles | zerojay, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34878 |
| 21:31.33 | GeneralAntilles | Go forth and destrooooy! |
| 21:32.04 | andre_ | hell yeah |
| 21:32.39 | zerojay | Hahaha.. I think krisse is just trolling at this point. |
| 21:33.03 | javispedro | I have to wonder how can 4 pages of posts be written in something as plain as the bugzilla bug entry form? |
| 21:33.17 | javispedro | in a single day! |
| 21:33.22 | qwerty12_N810 | zerojay: lol, of course. This was the guy who thought Nokia needed to bring out Netbooks with Maemo on 'em... |
| 21:34.10 | GeneralAntilles | krisse's a woman. ;) |
| 21:34.33 | qwerty12_N810 | s/guy/lady/ |
| 21:35.10 | zerojay | "asks for more information than the user needs to give"? She doesn't have a clue how bug tracking works. Providing all the information possible is important because while the user may not see why some piece of info is important, the developer might. |
| 21:35.32 | andre_ | feel free to comment :-P |
| 21:35.44 | zerojay | Ooooh, believe me - I plan on it. |
| 21:36.09 | GeneralAntilles | lol, zerojay's gonna be the grump in my place. |
| 21:36.42 | sp3000 | generally, forums can be a fine place to discuss bugs for people who can't handle bugzillas |
| 21:37.17 | sp3000 | I'm sure some accommodations between them can be made but in the general case I think it's asking for magic |
| 21:37.19 | GeneralAntilles | sp3000, we've had lots of people volunteer to transcribe bugs reported on the forums into useful bugs for bugzilla |
| 21:37.31 | GeneralAntilles | but, much like the people who volunteered to do the same for the wiki, nothing ever came of it. |
| 21:37.41 | andre_ | true |
| 21:37.59 | Jaffa | 's read tmo :-( |
| 21:38.22 | qwerty12_N810 | Bad Jaffa |
| 21:38.30 | zerojay | It's also hard to do that when the bugs mentioned on the forums are nothing but vague "it doesn't work" all the time. |
| 21:38.45 | Jaffa | I even tried to limit it to a selection of threads in Community, Development and Applications. |
| 21:39.11 | sp3000 | zerojay: yeah, but forums can be more convenient for the prodding |
| 21:39.23 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (n=hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 21:40.02 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, junkie. |
| 21:40.08 | qwerty12_N810 | Jaffa: Block it on your router, and donate £1 to [charity of your choosing] everytime you try to go on it |
| 21:40.32 | Jaffa | qwerty12_N810: We're going to buy Peter Kay's DVD single of his all-star animated coolness for Children in Need. |
| 21:40.41 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: I'd closed it until your Bugzilla hate thread |
| 21:43.12 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, muahaha! |
| 21:43.25 | Jaffa | Cut me off, man! |
| 21:44.49 | zerojay | I've barely been on talk in the last week or so and shit like that makes me feel like I haven't missed much. |
| 21:45.10 | Jaffa | zerojay: I only realy went back to post http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34888 |
| 21:45.24 | Jaffa | my "someone-else read tmo, so I don't have to" idea. |
| 21:45.52 | zerojay | Yeah, I think I saw you say something about it on twitter. |
| 21:45.58 | Jaffa | yeah |
| 21:45.59 | *** join/#maemo simula_ (n=mark@c-24-16-132-121.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 21:46.14 | Jaffa | and -community, and pmo. Spammer <= me |
| 21:46.36 | Jaffa | offs to watch a West Wing. |
| 21:49.16 | GeneralAntilles | Why do people want to distribute OSS through Ovi? |
| 21:49.55 | GeneralAntilles | What qgil seems to be suggesting is that Extras is going to take a rather severe back seat. |
| 21:50.14 | qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: With Nokia blatently promoting the Store more? |
| 21:50.30 | GeneralAntilles | Especially sad since it DOESN'T EVEN WORK |
| 21:50.41 | lbt | GeneralAntilles: I do |
| 21:50.49 | lbt | I want to sell Shopper on ovi |
| 21:51.07 | lbt | the plebs will love it and pay me |
| 21:51.09 | asdm | Anyone ever get N770 And CarMAn to work with USB ELM 327 ? |
| 21:51.11 | lbt | sorry, customers |
| 21:51.27 | lbt | and I am dead serious BTW |
| 21:56.49 | Stskeeps | should look into corporate liability insurance |
| 21:57.43 | andre_ | Stskeeps, also thought about that a year ago. But I can't remember whether I signed a contract or not :) |
| 21:59.42 | Stskeeps | andre_: were you employed or own company? |
| 21:59.43 | Stskeeps | (forgot) |
| 22:01.50 | Stskeeps | cos that probably determines if it's you or someone else taking care of that :P |
| 22:03.15 | *** join/#maemo borism_ (n=boris@213-35-232-204-dsl.end.estpak.ee) |
| 22:03.48 | GeneralAntilles | OpenIsmus |
| 22:04.22 | qwerty12_N810 | I thought he worked in a chocolate factory? |
| 22:05.08 | zgold | What is the preferred way to play through g-streamer on the commadn line in maemo 5? |
| 22:06.00 | Chani | :/ I have horrible luck with n-series and chargers |
| 22:06.07 | Chani | my n900 is having trouble charging now |
| 22:06.17 | Chani | I finally got it to turn on, but it says that battery is low |
| 22:06.31 | *** join/#maemo claesbas2 (n=cnorin_c@c83-248-212-32.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 22:06.33 | andre_ | Stskeeps, I'm employed |
| 22:06.52 | andre_ | qwerty12_N810, sssh, don't tell them about all my other jobs! |
| 22:07.06 | mikhas | Chani, do you recharge via USB? |
| 22:07.12 | Chani | mikhas: yes |
| 22:07.22 | qwerty12_N810 | andre_: Ohh, right. Sorry! |
| 22:07.34 | crashanddie | Jaffa, MoSCoW? |
| 22:07.35 | mikhas | well, you might want to try via power outlet |
| 22:07.47 | Chani | aha! got it this tim,,, but it'll probably stop again in a minute |
| 22:07.47 | mikhas | it could be that your USB port is not providing enough power for a recharge |
| 22:07.58 | Chani | mikhas: don't have one of those chargers |
| 22:08.01 | andre_ | qwerty12_N810, and never ever mention my microsoft position. you know those open source facists... |
| 22:08.03 | Chani | all I have is the usb cable |
| 22:08.15 | mikhas | ok, try other USB ports then |
| 22:08.16 | Chani | mikhas: also, it worked fine for the last week |
| 22:08.25 | mikhas | and check your BIOS whether you ramp up power supply |
| 22:08.30 | mikhas | hmph |
| 22:08.36 | mikhas | <= out of ideas then |
| 22:08.36 | Chani | just this morning I woke up and it was frozen, thinking it was still charging... |
| 22:08.37 | andre_ | Chani, how did you get the device if you don't have a normal non-usb charger? :) |
| 22:08.55 | Chani | andre_: from a teacher. he had two devices and only one wall charger |
| 22:09.04 | andre_ | Chani, tried removing the battery and wait for a day? |
| 22:09.05 | andre_ | ah i see |
| 22:09.19 | andre_ | wonders whether his idea makes sense at all |
| 22:09.19 | mikhas | 1. go to your teacher's house 2. steal the wall charger |
| 22:09.45 | sp3000 | (if it's attached to a wall, take the wall too, it may come in handy) |
| 22:09.46 | Chani | I have problems with my n810 too, I have to jiggle the cable a lot to get it to charge, then if I touch it again it might stop |
| 22:09.48 | andre_ | that list is missing to take the food from the fridge |
| 22:09.56 | Chani | hehehe |
| 22:09.59 | GeneralAntilles | puts andre_ on a stake. |
| 22:10.11 | mikhas | it's an open-ended list =) |
| 22:10.18 | qwerty12_N810 | 1. Download porn 2. Threaten to put it on teacher's account if he does not give the charger |
| 22:10.26 | Chani | aargh, it stopped charging when I put it down again |
| 22:10.43 | Stskeeps | Chani: typical issue with that charger plug |
| 22:11.14 | sp3000 | typically loses with cables before plugs |
| 22:11.16 | Chani | jiggles the cable again |
| 22:11.41 | andre_ | qwerty12_N810, if you could elaborate the first step via /prvmsg - tried so many times and never found it in this internet thingy |
| 22:11.47 | Chani | *sigh* it works when I'm touching the cable... |
| 22:12.21 | qwerty12_N810 | andre_: Well, it all starts with Lemonparty... |
| 22:12.36 | andre_ | Chani, yeah, sometimes technical stuff behaves like women. just be friendly to them and show some love. |
| 22:14.09 | GeneralAntilles | Ooh, sweet, HP's got a thin client with that 1.2GHz Marvell. |
| 22:15.55 | luke-jr | O.o |
| 22:16.45 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:17.19 | luke-jr | ... |
| 22:17.23 | SpeedEvil | (I know there are USB scales, however I don't have one) |
| 22:18.25 | crashanddie | anyone know what Jaffa meant by "MoSCoW prioritisation?" |
| 22:18.37 | zerojay | andre does, I think. |
| 22:18.46 | andre_ | actually: no. |
| 22:19.21 | andre_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MoSCoW |
| 22:22.23 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@a88-112-120-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 22:25.05 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, failed to connect. |
| 22:25.22 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, bad Mac :P |
| 22:25.24 | SpeedEvil | Talk lacks something at the moment. It should have an auto-generated youtube channel for each thread, where everyone can add video comments. |
| 22:25.32 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, did you removed the previous pairings ? |
| 22:25.34 | zerojay | lol |
| 22:25.36 | GeneralAntilles | Yes |
| 22:25.55 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, which opinion did you use ? |
| 22:26.01 | GeneralAntilles | Me need a bot to mirror -1 comments that match keyword searches to Talk. |
| 22:26.04 | GeneralAntilles | (from slashdot) |
| 22:26.13 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, the opinion that you suck. |
| 22:26.39 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, I know :P , -->Option |
| 22:27.56 | GeneralAntilles | Hang on, let me delete the pairings again. |
| 22:28.44 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, use the third option, if it fails to connect go back and choose the second (reconnect) |
| 22:29.32 | GeneralAntilles | OK, it works. |
| 22:29.35 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@202.84-49-132.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:29.38 | qwerty12_N810 | Option 4: Ditch the Mac |
| 22:29.42 | GeneralAntilles | Why doesn't the hardware keyboard work? |
| 22:29.58 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, same problem as xev and Qole's stuff |
| 22:30.03 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, 'course the layout is all wrong. |
| 22:30.04 | VDVsx | hintfocus |
| 22:30.11 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, qwerty12 has a patch for that, right? |
| 22:30.28 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, not for the efl LIB :( |
| 22:30.39 | GeneralAntilles | Ah |
| 22:30.48 | qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: Ship xprop with BlueMaemo =) |
| 22:30.50 | GeneralAntilles | Well, my issue is that the layouts don't match. |
| 22:30.51 | qwerty12_N810 | hides |
| 22:30.52 | VDVsx | has to kick someone |
| 22:31.37 | VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, in the worse case I can do a gtk or Qt main loop that inject the keys into EFL |
| 22:31.54 | *** join/#maemo tchan (n=tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) |
| 22:32.40 | lardman | night chaps, cu tomorrow |
| 22:33.25 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, OK, got some bugs to file. |
| 22:33.51 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, as I said the UI is unfinished, but shot :P |
| 22:33.58 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, what version is this? |
| 22:34.18 | VDVsx | 0.3.9 |
| 22:35.38 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, can you move the settings and about up into the menu? |
| 22:36.13 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, I can, but this is not GTK+ :) |
| 22:36.29 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, well, it's trying to look like it. :P |
| 22:37.24 | VDVsx | more or less, lol |
| 22:37.51 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, not being able to get to about until you've connected to something is irritating. |
| 22:39.18 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, true, I've plans to make hildon-like menu, but first I need to finish the 'default' UI |
| 22:39.40 | VDVsx | actually a did one, but very ugly |
| 22:39.47 | VDVsx | needs wazd help :p |
| 22:41.47 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, ah, I've a service record that support the multimedia keys/email/browser ...., only need a way to assign them (more UI work :() |
| 22:41.55 | Jaffa | crashanddie: Wikipedia link above is accurate: Must/Should/Could/Won't |
| 22:42.03 | VDVsx | better than assign p or space |
| 22:42.47 | GeneralAntilles | Don't think they'll work in OS X. |
| 22:43.05 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, yes they work, according to one of my testers |
| 22:44.19 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, "volume up/down, mute, play/pause, stop, next track, previous track all work as expected on both systems." XP and Mac OS 10.5.8 |
| 22:46.24 | wazd | VDVsx: who summoned me? :D |
| 22:46.42 | GeneralAntilles | throws holy water on wazd and runs. |
| 22:46.57 | VDVsx | wazd, was GeneralAntilles |
| 22:47.03 | VDVsx | w:P |
| 22:47.05 | wazd | Harrr! |
| 22:48.11 | wazd | VDVsx: so? :) |
| 22:48.42 | Macer | n900 out yet? |
| 22:48.43 | Macer | :) |
| 22:48.46 | *** join/#maemo letusgothen____ (n=letusgot@69-165-145-108.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 22:48.56 | Macer | i was going to buy one this week but went out and bought a ton of clothes instead haha |
| 22:48.57 | VDVsx | wazd, I need more stuff for BlueMaemo, but lets finish the essential first :) |
| 22:49.06 | wazd | Macer: nono, is n900 shipped yet? :D |
| 22:50.40 | GeneralAntilles | Macer, Chicago and NY flagship stores supposedly have them. |
| 22:51.12 | SpeedEvil | Also allegedly UK orders from nokia.co.uk are going out monday |
| 22:51.14 | *** join/#maemo ArSa (n=ArSa@173-25-26-173.client.mchsi.com) |
| 22:52.01 | *** join/#maemo cghouly (n=dade@75.37.68.211) |
| 22:52.58 | lbt | SpeedEvil: oooh |
| 22:53.13 | *** join/#maemo eightace (n=rooms@host86-154-187-87.range86-154.btcentralplus.com) |
| 22:53.28 | SpeedEvil | but that was from talk - so who knows. (though the nokia.co.uk site itself says 'from 23rd' |
| 22:53.41 | SpeedEvil | (no change in order status though I ordered on the 20th) |
| 22:53.48 | ShadowJK | .fi store orders mostly went out yesterday, allegedly. Alot of people who managed to obtain UPS tracking though, say UPS is moving the packages the wrong direction, away from .fi o_0 |
| 22:53.50 | alterego | MEEMO |
| 22:54.09 | alterego | cocksqueezers |
| 22:54.17 | ShadowJK | I'm afraid to check if my visa still says -800 or if nokia shop failed to charge it |
| 22:54.23 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 22:54.31 | *** join/#maemo juliank (n=juliank@ubuntu/member/juliank) |
| 22:54.48 | GeneralAntilles | I still need to re-order with DDP |
| 22:54.58 | GeneralAntilles | My credit card company hates Forum Nokia's BS. |
| 22:56.05 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@95.141.187.81.in-addr.arpa) |
| 22:56.24 | cghouly | Hello everyone. I was wondering, is anyone working on porting mauku 2 and/or microfeed to diablo? |
| 22:59.13 | wazd | VDVsx: can I go sleep now? :) |
| 22:59.30 | VDVsx | wazd, no |
| 22:59.32 | VDVsx | lol |
| 22:59.45 | wazd | VDVsx: damn :)\ |
| 22:59.53 | VDVsx | wazd, now you can :P |
| 23:00.06 | VDVsx | but only 3 hours |
| 23:00.13 | VDVsx | is enough for you |
| 23:00.22 | wazd | VDVsx: kk my lord :D |
| 23:00.28 | VDVsx | :D |
| 23:02.42 | kirma | speedevil: as shadowjk told... I guess large portion of european preorders have got shipping from rotterdam on friday evening |
| 23:02.55 | kirma | mine is Köln/Cologne now |
| 23:03.01 | kirma | +in |
| 23:03.12 | ShadowJK | I ordered rather late, and the damn website was so broken I couldn't register a username, so I didn't get any emails.. |
| 23:03.19 | ShadowJK | except the first 3 |
| 23:03.21 | SpeedEvil | No charge yet. |
| 23:03.28 | javispedro | save for DDP orders, which have been lost in cyberspace. |
| 23:03.43 | ShadowJK | And Nokia Shop FI said they ran out of devices due to high demand and couldn't fulfill every order :/ |
| 23:05.31 | kirma | Nokia Shop FI gave indirect impression that they would have the devices in Finland, but they were really in Rotterdam (port?), and I think some non-Finn had identical tracking information indicating that the shipment there was much larger than just Finns... so others in other countries might be missing some too |
| 23:05.33 | mikhas | but that's good signs, no? |
| 23:06.04 | mikhas | high demand, I mean |
| 23:06.22 | *** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 23:06.24 | ShadowJK | Well at this point the devices going to fi aren't going anywhere else because no other place has crippled the keyboard in the same way, right ;) |
| 23:06.29 | kirma | I'm confident it'll end up at work on monday to me, unless UPS delivery guy fumbles locally at Helsinki... |
| 23:07.00 | ShadowJK | I think I picked standard delivery, I don't remember well. I hope that means Itella and not UPS |
| 23:07.16 | kirma | I would certainly have appreciated it getting shipped on thursday and reaching me friday, but it's not such a huge issue it would tip over my world |
| 23:08.06 | ShadowJK | The devices sitting in rotterdam kinda explains why they started shipping so soon, to account for the extra time it takes? |
| 23:09.51 | kirma | Rotterdam would also indicate that they really did ship it by *ship* from Korea |
| 23:10.23 | kirma | how long that takes... |
| 23:11.51 | *** join/#maemo ali1234 (n=al@87.106.101.225) |
| 23:12.20 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 23:12.26 | ShadowJK | 2-3 weeks I guess? |
| 23:12.49 | ShadowJK | what's that other big port in germany? |
| 23:12.53 | ShadowJK | up some river iirc |
| 23:13.15 | SpeedEvil | rhine |
| 23:13.16 | kirma | netherlands, biggest port in europe |
| 23:13.20 | qwerty12_N810 | Hamburg? |
| 23:13.21 | range | Hamburg. But that's really not as close as Rotterdam. |
| 23:13.49 | range | SpeedEvil: Further up the rhine is stupid if you need a central hub. Next large harbour behind Rotterdam is Duisburg. |
| 23:13.51 | till- | bremerhaven |
| 23:14.10 | till- | :) |
| 23:14.24 | *** join/#maemo zer0mdq (n=nnnnnuse@190.190.193.33) |
| 23:14.28 | Stskeeps | if from korea, why not italy/france? |
| 23:14.28 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 23:14.34 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - I was trying to remember my german geography. |
| 23:14.34 | *** part/#maemo cghouly (n=dade@75.37.68.211) |
| 23:14.43 | SpeedEvil | Which comes largely from the '1632' series of novels. |
| 23:14.44 | Stskeeps | if it goes through the canal down in egypt |
| 23:15.01 | till- | but hamburg harbor is much bigger |
| 23:15.02 | range | Stskeeps: Yeah, I'm wondering about that too, as it has to go through the mediterranean sea. |
| 23:15.20 | range | So maybe not by ship after all? |
| 23:15.27 | SpeedEvil | ponders the _real_ reason for the shipping delays. |
| 23:15.27 | ShadowJK | Stskeeps, sea is most economical |
| 23:15.45 | SpeedEvil | It's a tragic reverse of the Spinal Tap moment. |
| 23:16.05 | SpeedEvil | The screen is in fact 3.5m, not 3.5". |
| 23:16.18 | *** join/#maemo borism (n=boris@213-35-232-204-dsl.end.estpak.ee) |
| 23:16.30 | Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: i'd pay for a 3.5m N900. |
| 23:16.44 | Stskeeps | if it came at the price suggested in DDP, that'd be great, too ;) |
| 23:16.55 | range | Rotterdam seems to be one of UPS' central hubs. |
| 23:17.48 | andre_ | maybe some Somali pirates now all have N900s and that's the real reason why we wait ;-) |
| 23:18.27 | kirma | some page says that daesan-rotterdam shipment would take a tad over a month |
| 23:18.49 | range | But UPS is bleh. Looks like taking off half a day if I want to receive the thing at home. |
| 23:19.13 | kirma | that would be great joy since vast portion of somali don't even know how to read their own language |
| 23:20.15 | andre_ | i'm not talking about the average Somali (whatever that means since the country does not exist), but educated pirates. |
| 23:20.58 | SpeedEvil | Somalia doesn't exist? |
| 23:21.15 | kirma | where they have got their education if the country has supposedly been in constant civil war for like twenty years? |
| 23:21.16 | kirma | :I |
| 23:21.23 | kirma | (yeah, offtopic) |
| 23:21.37 | qwerty12_N810 | Somalia's awesome. I mean, where else in the world can you go to Puntland? |
| 23:21.49 | andre_ | true that! |
| 23:22.15 | andre_ | kirma, just because there is civil war in parts of the country does not mean that people are uneducated ;-) |
| 23:22.35 | SpeedEvil | Or that it doesn't exist. |
| 23:22.36 | andre_ | pirates do contact ship owners in english or french i assume. |
| 23:22.51 | andre_ | yes, it exists on some maps. but that's all. |
| 23:23.18 | mikhas | they needed the n900s to extend their pirate business |
| 23:23.25 | kirma | I have to say that the pirates haven't really worked too hard on giving that civilised, highly educated image... |
| 23:23.52 | andre_ | well, maybe that's the media here? |
| 23:24.51 | andre_ | they probably didn't start piracy because they were bored. |
| 23:24.58 | kirma | I actually think european media is gentle to them, but they're completely uninterested to spin their own ultra-selfish actions in believably positive light. |
| 23:25.06 | andre_ | and they probably don't have good boats and weapons because they are stupid. |
| 23:25.44 | andre_ | sure. but why should they care about what others think, if nobody cared about somalia for 15 years? :-) |
| 23:26.01 | *** join/#maemo n6pfk (n=n6pfk__@96.238.186.191) |
| 23:26.36 | andre_ | if european ships take away your fish and dump their waste in front of your coast i'd also think about how to pay back. |
| 23:27.09 | andre_ | (still it's both criminal of course. it's not that I want to say that it's good what they do.) |
| 23:29.03 | kirma | if you look at historical records, you can see that fishing has never been actually big part of society in somalia. and I doubt if any country has right to demand that other countries should come to solve their own problems, and threat with trouble if they don't. |
| 23:29.58 | kirma | but I'd say: back to the topic, political discussions are usually not so fruitful... |
| 23:30.03 | andre_ | true :-) |
| 23:30.30 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah! Let's talk about how much bugzilla sucks instead. :P |
| 23:30.51 | kirma | at least that's politics that somehow touches us ;) |
| 23:31.02 | qwerty12_N810 | Yeah, that bug"master" even more so! ;P |
| 23:31.11 | kirma | anyway... bedtime -> |
| 23:31.28 | andre_ | GeneralAntilles, tell me, tell me! :-P |
| 23:31.30 | *** join/#maemo type_t2 (n=markwire@c-98-228-74-254.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 23:31.31 | range | GeneralAntilles: Other bug trackers suck too, at least bugzilla has the features :) |
| 23:31.41 | andre_ | qwerty12_N810, who's that sucker? |
| 23:32.21 | GeneralAntilles | range, sarcasm context: bug #6272 |
| 23:32.22 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6272 User-friendliness fail |
| 23:32.42 | qwerty12_N810 | andre_: Erm, *looks around*. Maybe I can get him or her to reveal themselves with a piece of chocolate |
| 23:33.33 | GeneralAntilles | Them, qwerty12_N810, _them_. |
| 23:33.52 | range | GeneralAntilles: Ah, the Reverend. Well, yes, for beginners Mantis seems to be more user friendly. |
| 23:33.59 | range | For bug takers, it really isn't. |
| 23:34.14 | qwerty12_N810 | growls at the pedant that is GeneralAntilles |
| 23:34.42 | GeneralAntilles | thwaps qwerty12_N810 on the muzzle. |
| 23:36.56 | *** join/#maemo dabozz (n=benny@dslb-094-219-049-018.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:37.28 | Jaffa | All bug trackers suck; and there are valid points in the tmo thread which andre_ says are fixed in a later Bugzilla build. |
| 23:39.02 | GeneralAntilles | Indeed |
| 23:39.11 | GeneralAntilles | has a few ideas about the guided form. |
| 23:40.04 | andre_ | i should check out the guided form in the 3.4 landfill test installation once my workmachine is usable again (upgrading distro currently) |
| 23:40.47 | GeneralAntilles | andre_, what are those grayed out strings that disappear when you click a text field called? |
| 23:40.50 | GeneralAntilles | We need some of those. |
| 23:41.18 | andre_ | ah. good question. |
| 23:42.31 | GeneralAntilles | Short strings to indicate what should be in a field. |
| 23:42.51 | andre_ | yes, i understand |
| 23:43.18 | GeneralAntilles | andre_, yeah, not sure why I typed that. |
| 23:43.27 | GeneralAntilles | I think I was going to come up with a good example, but it didn't happen. |
| 23:43.32 | GeneralAntilles | is distracted watching The Office. |
| 23:43.44 | andre_ | US version, I assume? |
| 23:44.50 | GeneralAntilles | Indeed |
| 23:46.13 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (n=hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 23:46.15 | javispedro | are you trying to track the N900 as they're shipped through the world? |
| 23:46.36 | javispedro | crazy, crasy, crazy stuff :) |
| 23:46.56 | *** join/#maemo ZrZ (n=RzR@rzr.ww7.be) |
| 23:47.01 | GeneralAntilles | andre_, tooltips could also be handy. |
| 23:47.44 | andre_ | if people get it that they exist |
| 23:47.44 | Stskeeps | javispedro: any luck with the new shipment? |
| 23:47.47 | GeneralAntilles | andre_, you know those little Web 2.0 pixelart question marks they put by form items? |
| 23:47.55 | javispedro | Stskeeps: no, same results... |
| 23:47.58 | Stskeeps | javispedro: k |
| 23:48.33 | andre_ | oh yeah! |
| 23:51.09 | *** part/#maemo type_t2 (n=markwire@c-98-228-74-254.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 23:52.29 | timeless_mbp | oh! |
| 23:52.40 | timeless_mbp | did anyone take any new photos of the nokia store in HEL? |
| 23:53.24 | andre_ | wonders whether there is a Nokia store in this town too that he could annoy :-P |
| 23:53.45 | timeless_mbp | andre_: there's one in Chicago, IL, one in NYC |
| 23:53.55 | timeless_mbp | iirc there's one in Tokyo |
| 23:54.09 | andre_ | okay. sounds like very few towns |
| 23:54.18 | timeless_mbp | iirc there are <10 |
| 23:55.03 | timeless_mbp | http://www.flagship.nokia.com/ |
| 23:55.24 | timeless_mbp | 9 in fact |
| 23:55.29 | timeless_mbp | so precisely <10 |
| 23:56.03 | timeless_mbp | wait |
| 23:56.06 | timeless_mbp | omigosh |
| 23:56.11 | timeless_mbp | Nokia = Stupid |
| 23:56.18 | timeless_mbp | they have a flagship store in .br |
| 23:56.27 | timeless_mbp | and no one thought to warn them that Ovi was taken? |
| 23:57.17 | luke-jr | ? |
| 23:58.47 | timeless_mbp | http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE58N6QT20090924 |
| 23:59.06 | sp3000 | timeless_mbp: did you notice the mexican bit is misspelled in the fp flash |
| 23:59.21 | timeless_mbp | the site was pure flash, my eyes glazed over |
