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| 00:01.08 | gouverneur | pnik64: ovi store requires $1M corporate general liability insurance, new post about it... |
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| 00:01.29 | Shapeshifter | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=383098&postcount=77 lol the internet is a funny place. 188 people in that thread, now wittnessed about one of the very first retail n900 owners (who paid for it) |
| 00:01.46 | pnik64 | right, check the recent secret meeting in south korea |
| 00:01.46 | Shapeshifter | I hear fanfares |
| 00:01.51 | Shapeshifter | taataaadaaaa |
| 00:02.11 | javispedro | ... |
| 00:04.50 | pnik64 | wow |
| 00:04.55 | pnik64 | nice Shapeshifter |
| 00:06.58 | Shapeshifter | pnik64: that's not me |
| 00:07.30 | Shapeshifter | pnik64: I'm just saying, it's kinda funny that there are almost 200 people hitting F5 or ctrl-r every 10 seconds waiting for some guy in NYC to post a picture of his n900 |
| 00:07.44 | pnik64 | oh |
| 00:10.14 | gouverneur | I guess the retailers will ship to monday |
| 00:10.52 | gouverneur | nokia flagship stores isnt realy a retailers address |
| 00:13.04 | nomis | Shapeshifter: what? Where is the page I have to hit F5 on? :) |
| 00:13.30 | Shapeshifter | nomis: posted it above |
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| 00:14.39 | nomis | awesome! ;-P |
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| 00:20.49 | Shapeshifter | yay figured out the rsync command to back up my stuff without touching the scratchbox dirs |
| 00:22.07 | timeless_mbp | cries |
| 00:22.19 | timeless_mbp | found a couple more stupid xref errors |
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| 00:25.43 | pupnik | after irssi nothing else is fun |
| 00:25.50 | javispedro | ah |
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| 00:25.56 | javispedro | now I know who pnik64 was ;) |
| 00:26.18 | Proteous | irssi ftw |
| 00:26.21 | pupnik | o/ |
| 00:27.35 | javispedro | well, going to bed now. hopefully tomorrow oct2009ers will not have overriden tmo main defenses |
| 00:27.43 | Shapeshifter | yay. rm -vR scratchbox and I'm still here |
| 00:28.38 | Shapeshifter | any clues what would happen if I was to move the final sdk scratchbox dir to opt? |
| 00:28.51 | dmj726 | perhaps we need to hide tmo from the normals by only allowing access via ip address |
| 00:28.53 | Shapeshifter | mh. I'll just try cp. |
| 00:28.53 | javispedro | cats and dogs living together. |
| 00:29.04 | dmj726 | (not actual suggestion!) |
| 00:29.05 | javispedro | see you |
| 00:29.25 | dmj726 | we want to be found generally speaking |
| 00:29.42 | dmj726 | :) |
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| 00:38.14 | Venomrush | forum is going crazy |
| 00:38.23 | Venomrush | guys managed to get n900 posting pic up |
| 00:38.35 | Venomrush | and the swearing cursing nokia starts |
| 00:38.37 | Venomrush | lol |
| 00:38.38 | Venomrush | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=383145&postcount=95 |
| 00:38.47 | GeneralAntilles | Talk is a cesspit. |
| 00:40.06 | Shapeshifter | mh. how big is scratchbox anyway... seems like it's huge |
| 00:40.22 | Shapeshifter | well... if I cp a symlink, the target wont be copied as well, right? |
| 00:41.02 | Shapeshifter | but what about a du -sh? does du follow symlinks and add that to the total size? |
| 00:41.23 | GeneralAntilles | It's Maemo + development stuff + documentation + cross compilation stuff |
| 00:41.27 | GeneralAntilles | So, a couple of gigabytes. |
| 00:41.31 | GeneralAntilles | A large portion of which is docs. |
| 00:41.45 | kalikianatoli | Shapeshifter, around 2gb is normal, depending on what you install it can be bigger |
| 00:42.54 | kalikianatoli | hm... I think Thunar is trying to fool me: it says my 8gb sbox partition contains 21gb of data |
| 00:43.10 | Shapeshifter | kalikianatoli: well, that's what I'm saying, I think it follows symlinks. |
| 00:43.33 | Shapeshifter | not sure if du -sh does. And even more unsure if cp does follow them. I don't get it. |
| 00:43.39 | Shapeshifter | [1] shapeshifter@Tachychineta> du -sh /home/shapeshifter/stuff/maemofinal |
| 00:43.40 | Shapeshifter | 2.5G/home/shapeshifter/stuff/maemofinal |
| 00:43.47 | kalikianatoli | that sounds like a normal size |
| 00:43.49 | Shapeshifter | du -sh /mnt/space/maemo |
| 00:43.59 | Shapeshifter | 3.7G/mnt/space/maemo |
| 00:43.59 | kalikianatoli | your value might actually be correct |
| 00:44.04 | kalikianatoli | let me check here |
| 00:44.12 | Shapeshifter | but, the above is during a cp from the first to the second |
| 00:44.15 | Shapeshifter | the cp is still going on |
| 00:44.20 | Shapeshifter | and the target is already 3.7 |
| 00:44.24 | Shapeshifter | while the source is 2.5 |
| 00:44.27 | kalikianatoli | 4,5GB here with du -sh |
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| 00:45.11 | kalikianatoli | iirc a fresh copy of sbox was 1, something gb |
| 00:45.36 | Shapeshifter | this is really weird. I did 'cp -R /home/shapeshifter/stuff/maemofinal /mnt/space/maemo' and now the target has 4.4G while the source has 2.5 |
| 00:45.47 | Shapeshifter | I think I should have used cp -a |
| 00:46.05 | Shapeshifter | tries again with cp -a |
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| 00:46.38 | pupnik | http://europe.nokia.com/search?qt=maemo&GO.y=0&GO.x=0&GO=GO does europe.nokia.com not know maemo? |
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| 00:47.08 | pupnik | what does -a do, archive and de-symlinks? |
| 00:47.34 | pupnik | i am trying to log into the darn sdk page |
| 00:47.35 | Shapeshifter | pupnik: same as -dR --preserve=all |
| 00:48.06 | pupnik | ty i forgot that |
| 00:49.54 | lcukn900 | qt=maemo returns no result because maemo=qt+gtk+awesome |
| 00:50.32 | Shapeshifter | lcukn900: lol nice comment in the NYC thread |
| 00:52.19 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik? |
| 00:52.34 | GeneralAntilles | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com ? |
| 00:53.50 | lcukn900 | lol |
| 00:55.12 | kalikianatoli | haha, qt=maemo is a nice one |
| 00:55.27 | kalikianatoli | let's start pondering whether the server admin likes qt |
| 00:57.18 | lcukn900 | arghhhh greasy chicken fingers on my n900 screen |
| 00:58.12 | kalikianatoli | has *nails* :P |
| 00:58.41 | Proteous | no one to blame but youself |
| 00:59.35 | GeneralAntilles | Woo, nails! |
| 01:00.04 | Robot101 | lcukn900: use the stylus? :) |
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| 01:02.32 | lcukn900 | lol robot101 its too late for that |
| 01:03.08 | pupnik | GeneralAntilles: just wanted to log onto some nokia forum anhd ended up there |
| 01:03.23 | pupnik | so i searched for maemo aynd founs zarro |
| 01:04.51 | *** part/#maemo MrGoose (n=cache@5ac515c3.bb.sky.com) |
| 01:04.54 | pupnik | perhaps that forum is not active |
| 01:05.46 | pupnik | maybe a maemo topic |
| 01:05.49 | pupnik | ... |
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| 01:11.41 | pupnik | god bless all good souls who help open source |
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| 01:15.46 | pupnik | newest firmware scrolling is more responsive feeling |
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| 01:16.36 | pupnik | but maybe flick speed was just increased, not actual refresh rate |
| 01:21.48 | pupnik | i just thought of a way to maybe cheaply implement a notch filter |
| 01:21.59 | pupnik | i dint think ove read it |
| 01:22.26 | lcukn900 | pupnik cool. whats a notch filter |
| 01:22.27 | pupnik | would take only a few instructions per sample |
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| 01:23.00 | kalikianatoli | does a notch filter protect the device from scratches? |
| 01:23.09 | pupnik | audio term, cut out a notch in the frequency response |
| 01:23.31 | pupnik | to counter feedback or case resonances |
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| 01:23.47 | pupnik | heh |
| 01:24.20 | pupnik | well how would you naively reduce response at 300 hz? |
| 01:24.44 | lcukn900 | anyone got the viaspy link for tmo |
| 01:25.03 | pupnik | <ot me |
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| 01:59.56 | Ronaldo38741 | How do I make the N810's keyboard not auto-capitalize sentences? |
| 02:00.10 | GeneralAntilles | Open the control panel and turn off autocapitalization? |
| 02:00.26 | kalikianatoli | too easy |
| 02:00.58 | Ronaldo38741 | Would it be better if I asked a question no-one could answer? |
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| 02:02.22 | kalikianatoli | yes, please. we love the challenge :) |
| 02:04.12 | Ronaldo38741 | Which came first, the chicken or the egg? |
| 02:04.21 | Ronaldo38741 | In other news, where in the control panel? |
| 02:04.32 | GeneralAntilles | In the application menu? |
| 02:04.43 | Ronaldo38741 | "Text input settings" has no sucn option |
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| 02:04.57 | Ronaldo38741 | *such |
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| 02:05.12 | GeneralAntilles | It may in one of the dialogs farther down |
| 02:05.39 | Ronaldo38741 | Only one below it is "Panels" |
| 02:05.45 | GeneralAntilles | Under the dictionaries tab |
| 02:05.47 | GeneralAntilles | Settings |
| 02:06.13 | Ronaldo38741 | Dictionaries tab? |
| 02:06.23 | GeneralAntilles | In text input settings |
| 02:06.25 | GeneralAntilles | It may be called something lese |
| 02:06.27 | GeneralAntilles | else |
| 02:06.30 | GeneralAntilles | I have an aftermarket string set. |
| 02:06.41 | GeneralAntilles | But the tab in text input settings that have the dictionaries. |
| 02:07.17 | Ronaldo38741 | Ok, thanks |
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| 02:12.54 | thephilosopher | so |
| 02:13.02 | thephilosopher | who got the first n90 ? |
| 02:13.05 | thephilosopher | n900 |
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| 02:14.39 | GeneralAntilles | People who got prototypes months and months ago? |
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| 02:24.25 | GeneralAntilles | It's amazing how telepathy-haze can't manage to stay connected to AIM for more than an hour at a time. |
| 02:26.26 | jaska | hazy telepathy |
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| 02:27.03 | aep | can the "end of november" delivery date be trusted? |
| 02:27.24 | aep | actually i already know the answer, it's no. |
| 02:32.38 | GeneralAntilles | aep, well, some people got them at retail. |
| 02:32.51 | GeneralAntilles | Supposedly shipping will start tomorrow or early next week for Nokia pre-orders. |
| 02:32.57 | GeneralAntilles | jaska, just calling it by the package name. |
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| 02:34.58 | thephilosopher | i thnk i am just gonna get a droid |
| 02:35.04 | thephilosopher | droid does lol |
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| 02:37.33 | microlith | that'll be nice |
| 02:37.50 | thephilosopher | ? |
| 02:38.01 | aep | "it does lol" ? |
| 02:38.02 | microlith | shipping starting tomorrow or early next week |
| 02:38.10 | thephilosopher | still |
| 02:38.22 | thephilosopher | aep: yep and cofee too |
| 02:38.30 | aep | oh well THAT is a point |
| 02:38.47 | simula_ | i just talked to a sales rep from nokia and early pre-order buyers will need to call up nokia sales because there is a problem with the headset |
| 02:39.02 | microlith | simula_: yes, did that the other day myself |
| 02:39.08 | simula_ | cool |
| 02:39.11 | aep | the headset? heh. who cares? |
| 02:39.14 | aep | they suck anyway |
| 02:39.20 | simula_ | aep... they will hold your order |
| 02:39.28 | aep | i didnt preorder yet |
| 02:39.32 | simula_ | ahhh heh |
| 02:39.41 | aep | i'm still not sure where to order. US or UK |
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| 02:39.54 | aep | due to the silly keybaord i cant order a german one anyway |
| 02:39.55 | thephilosopher | US cheaper |
| 02:40.01 | aep | yeah but later too |
| 02:40.14 | thephilosopher | aep: j max 2 weeks |
| 02:40.17 | aep | hmm |
| 02:40.52 | asdm | I know im a newb and i dont wanna piss anyone off so(usally i dont know the rules on asking for help and stuff and people get pissed), how can i ask for some help ? |
| 02:41.05 | thephilosopher | asdm: go head |
| 02:41.57 | aep | you just do it. like "hello, i have a problem with X doing Y but i expect Z" |
| 02:42.07 | asdm | I have a N770 I enabled usb host mode and installed Carman app and i plugged in the USB OBD reader to the N770 its registers at address5 but i think the porgram only reads bluetooth devices |
| 02:42.10 | aep | and people just answer. its that easy :D |
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| 02:42.22 | thephilosopher | what do you guys think of amazon |
| 02:42.30 | asdm | is there a way i can make the usb look like a bluetooth device to n770, thanks aep |
| 02:42.33 | thephilosopher | will we get the device before janury ? |
| 02:42.56 | aep | asdm: i have no idea. but maybe someone else does. just stick around and reask if no one responds in an hour or so |
| 02:43.09 | asdm | aep: ok, thnx |
| 02:43.42 | aep | thephilosopher: i dunno. would be interested too |
| 02:43.46 | aep | amazon is $50 cheaper |
| 02:44.03 | thephilosopher | actually 150 % cheaper compared to nokiausa |
| 02:44.04 | aep | but 3 months waiting is not worth $50 |
| 02:44.10 | aep | lol, huh? |
| 02:44.23 | thephilosopher | ? |
| 02:44.37 | aep | it says $600 |
| 02:44.51 | aep | and nokiausa says $649 |
| 02:45.07 | microlith | my re-ordered preorder totaled just a couple dollars over $600 |
| 02:45.11 | aep | err wrong. amazon is $559.99 |
| 02:45.25 | thephilosopher | ho yea |
| 02:45.31 | thephilosopher | counted the mail-rebate |
| 02:45.46 | aep | whatever rebate you have, i'm sure its not 150% |
| 02:45.56 | aep | except math in your country works different |
| 02:46.13 | microlith | if it were 150% cheaper, they'd be paying you |
| 02:46.14 | thephilosopher | lol |
| 02:46.23 | thephilosopher | i meant 150 $ |
| 02:46.27 | aep | ah lol |
| 02:46.33 | Ronaldo38741 | $300 and a N900? Sounds good |
| 02:47.03 | dmj726 | http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/19/breaking-leaked-uk-g.html |
| 02:48.09 | Ronaldo38741 | Old news |
| 02:48.27 | aep | heh UK still not done with it? |
| 02:48.33 | aep | weird country |
| 02:48.41 | dmj726 | from today...this is miore than 3 strikes |
| 02:48.52 | dmj726 | *more |
| 02:48.55 | aep | at least they have sane n900 layouts |
| 02:50.30 | kalikianatoli | nokiausa reads like nausea, was that intentional? :-] |
| 02:50.35 | aep | heh |
| 02:50.45 | aep | i bet! |
| 02:51.27 | kalikianatoli | I can only agree about the layout. I'm infinitly happy to have the English layout, even though I needed to adapt to the y/z |
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| 02:51.57 | aep | aww, now that you mention that.. thats something i didnt think of |
| 02:52.34 | aep | maybe i can scratch the labels of and make new ones D: |
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| 02:53.19 | kalikianatoli | For me it was a matter of using it for a while. I mean, almost all keys are somehow different than on a big keyboard |
| 02:53.38 | kalikianatoli | So it's not like that's the one making the difference |
| 02:53.39 | aep | hmh true |
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| 02:54.29 | kalikianatoli | Then again, you *can* switch the layout in the settings. But I don't know where to get new labels |
| 02:55.34 | aep | from your favorite chinese parts supply |
| 02:55.37 | aep | hides |
| 02:55.47 | kalikianatoli | heh |
| 02:56.28 | aep | thats where i get all my nokia parts from since nokia refuses to sell parts at an acceptable price |
| 02:56.52 | aep | (130⬠for a new E51 LCD is ripof. the entire device is just 200) |
| 02:57.34 | kalikianatoli | or you grab them off ebay or another place with broken devices ;) |
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| 02:58.21 | asdm | anyone try shopping at dealextreme ? |
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| 03:54.03 | Guest83958 | I get this error everytime I try apt-get update in ARMEL target in scratchbox. /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set |
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| 04:08.07 | Guest83958 | How do I solve the SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set problem? I keep getting that error |
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| 05:53.06 | RST38h | laughs at Ovi thread |
| 05:53.34 | RST38h | People discussing creation of a corporate entity that would let them submit content to Ovi |
| 05:53.55 | RST38h | Nobody is even considering the most logical solution |
| 05:54.50 | derf | We could call this corporate entity "Nokia". |
| 05:54.57 | derf | If it's not already taken. |
| 05:58.05 | RST38h | Nokla, yes |
| 05:58.23 | RST38h | Not yet taken although certain Chinese will be offended |
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| 06:21.06 | dmj726 | http://www.forum.nokia.com/document/Get_started_with_Maemo_5/ in slide 4 the announcer pronounces GNOME like genome |
| 06:21.34 | RST38h | And? |
| 06:22.00 | dmj726 | first time I've heard it pronounced that way... |
| 06:22.31 | dmj726 | as in ge as in gene, rather than G as in GNU |
| 06:22.47 | dmj726 | or just silent |
| 06:23.15 | RST38h | Maybe nobody told him how it is supposed to sound? =) |
| 06:23.24 | dmj726 | normally I don't care that much about silent vs hard g but the soft g could be confusing |
| 06:23.30 | dmj726 | her actually |
| 06:23.52 | RST38h | Ahhha, Brin started wearing black turtlenecks Jobs-style |
| 06:24.04 | dmj726 | I'm sure that it was a simple mistake of not having been told the pronunciation |
| 06:24.05 | RST38h | And he is using Droid |
| 06:24.22 | RST38h | Somebody send Brin an N900 =) |
| 06:25.04 | luke-jr | dmj726: at least he didn't try to make it silent. |
| 06:25.13 | luke-jr | pretty sure it's explicitly NOT supposed to be silent |
| 06:25.56 | dmj726 | yeah, though a silent g would actually be what most native linux users would expect on seeing that word the first time. |
| 06:26.12 | dmj726 | /s/linux users/English speakers |
| 06:26.41 | RST38h | dmj726: only if your native language is English |
| 06:26.55 | RST38h | Because when I see "g" I say "g" :) |
| 06:27.00 | pwnguin | guh-nome sounds stupid anyways |
| 06:27.18 | pwnguin | RST38h: avoid french then |
| 06:27.31 | RST38h | managed to follow this advice so far |
| 06:27.41 | dmj726 | that's normally true for native speakers but there is an english word gnome that's pronounced nome |
| 06:28.00 | RST38h | "nom", not "nome", right? ;) |
| 06:28.04 | dmj726 | yeah |
| 06:28.09 | pwnguin | nom nom |
| 06:28.14 | dmj726 | long o |
| 06:28.22 | dmj726 | as in Rome |
| 06:28.26 | RST38h | See what I mean? Absolutely no correspondence between spelling and pronounciation :) |
| 06:28.34 | dmj726 | yeah |
| 06:28.38 | pwnguin | throw in an umlaut |
| 06:28.41 | luke-jr | XD |
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| 06:29.16 | dmj726 | most English words do follow the rules, but there are tons of exceptions |
| 06:29.18 | RST38h | Every fucking word is pretty much a hieroglyph |
| 06:29.50 | RST38h | dmj726: AmigaOS had that speak: device that read text aloud |
| 06:30.10 | RST38h | dmj726: It used a database of rules. Still read with latino accent though =) |
| 06:30.22 | pwnguin | we have festival |
| 06:30.28 | dmj726 | that's because it's your female friend |
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| 06:31.38 | dmj726 | ...Amiga |
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| 06:40.42 | luke-jr | Festival's default voice kinda sucks |
| 06:41.05 | ShadowJK | would native english speaker hear difference between gnom and genom |
| 06:41.33 | dmj726 | gnom being with a hard g? |
| 06:42.27 | dmj726 | Native English speakers can easily hear both hard and soft Gs. |
| 06:43.43 | dmj726 | the word gnome, however, generally has a silent g unless it refers to the free software project instead of little dwarfs |
| 06:48.14 | ShadowJK | Well whether gnom with hard g would be heard as genom |
| 06:48.50 | RST38h | no |
| 06:48.51 | dmj726 | nope, very different than genom, which has the soft g |
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| 06:57.16 | microlith | Genom? |
| 06:57.24 | microlith | is assaulted by boomers |
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| 07:01.49 | CoreFusion- | is awake, again |
| 07:03.54 | CoreFusion- | is starting his day with Battle without honor or humanity |
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| 07:04.22 | microlith | tries to recall what that's from |
| 07:04.47 | CoreFusion- | it's the kill bill theme :P |
| 07:04.50 | microlith | ok |
| 07:05.08 | CoreFusion- | I find it refreshing |
| 07:05.10 | microlith | movie soundtracks arne't a large part of my collection |
| 07:05.14 | microlith | aren't* |
| 07:05.24 | CoreFusion- | http://open.spotify.com/track/6Q32Vkucx2qeuVyBd3NiFZ |
| 07:06.26 | CoreFusion- | or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG2_kpSYxXI |
| 07:07.45 | microlith | heh, ty |
| 07:08.54 | Khertan | is listening Gardian of Asguard |
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| 07:14.54 | dmj726 | esbox garage site is down |
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| 07:18.00 | CoreFusion- | Khertan: You mean Guardians of Asgaard? |
| 07:18.15 | Khertan | yes ... :) |
| 07:18.30 | Khertan | just writing it from memory |
| 07:18.34 | CoreFusion- | Not for me :/ |
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| 07:42.20 | dmj726 | I've decided to try esbox, but am not having luck finding the documentation for it |
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| 07:52.53 | dmj726 | nevermind...found via google cache |
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| 07:56.17 | timeless_mbp | :( |
| 07:56.26 | timeless_mbp | my n900 killed itself while i was trying to read mail |
| 07:56.56 | dmj726 | :( |
| 07:56.58 | Stskeeps | :( |
| 07:57.01 | Stskeeps | browser or modest? :P |
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| 07:57.11 | dmj726 | define kill |
| 07:57.49 | auenf | shotgun, noose or locked itself in the car with a hose from the exhaust into the cabin? |
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| 08:01.05 | dmj726 | ...what email messages were you subjecting it too?!? =-O |
| 08:02.07 | Stskeeps | maemo bugtracker would definately make a n900 off itself |
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| 08:05.06 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 08:05.11 | Stskeeps | morning jaffa |
| 08:05.21 | Jaffa | Stskeeps: Did you have any thoughts on MWN idea? |
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| 08:08.26 | Stskeeps | Jaffa: reddit for tmo posts and events? :P |
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| 08:14.57 | Khertan | someone know a backup software that work on ubuntu ... |
| 08:15.10 | Khertan | making backup on ftp |
| 08:15.35 | Khertan | i ve try Simple Backup ... but is so simple that backup are unusable |
| 08:16.05 | Myrtti | rsync over ftp |
| 08:17.22 | bigbrovar | Khertan: Lucky backup has both a qt and a gtk frontend http://luckybackup.sourceforge.net/download.html |
| 08:18.00 | bigbrovar | Khertan: and it works really well, although it doesnt support backup over the network ( at least the lasttime i checked ) |
| 08:18.03 | Khertan | Myrtti: ... hum ... does rsync really support ftp ... ? |
| 08:19.05 | bigbrovar | Khertan: you can always get round the problem by mounted using nfs to mount ur remote back location |
| 08:19.06 | Khertan | luckybackup <<< doesn't support ftp |
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| 08:20.13 | Myrtti | Khertan: I'd be surprised if it doesn't |
| 08:20.38 | Dieterbe | hi guys. i feel pretty silly, but i can't figure out how to remove a song from the current playlist in the n900 (preproduction) media player (yeah, haven't flashed yet..) |
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| 08:21.19 | Myrtti | though I'd rather chop my left hand off than use ftp if ssh is available |
| 08:22.04 | Khertan | Myrtti: ssh isn't :) |
| 08:22.09 | dmj726 | The Maemo 5 getting started development tutorial is pretty well done (pronunciation aside) |
| 08:22.14 | Myrtti | and if you don't have ssh available, I'd chage host |
| 08:22.16 | Khertan | Myrtti: i m apt-get it ... so i ll try |
| 08:22.28 | Khertan | Myrtti: it s a special device |
| 08:22.30 | Myrtti | usage of ftp for backups is ... |
| 08:22.30 | dmj726 | I could see it being a very good intro for new devs |
| 08:22.34 | Myrtti | *cough* |
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| 08:24.00 | Khertan | luckybackup have an horrible interface |
| 08:24.01 | Khertan | ouch |
| 08:26.21 | bigbrovar | Khertan: am sure if you drop some $ in donation. It would help the project .. better still you can also make a mockup, or write you suggestions on what to the developers :) |
| 08:26.52 | Khertan | bigbrovar: or write my own ... and make a port for maemo too |
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| 08:27.25 | rrr__ | is there any ftp client on maemo yet? |
| 08:27.46 | bigbrovar | Khertan: yeah that too, although its often better to support an existing project than to start yet another one.. we haev too many orphaned project already |
| 08:28.07 | Stskeeps | rrr__: gftp? :P |
| 08:29.05 | *** join/#maemo subbukk (n=subbukk@147.243.216.25) |
| 08:29.21 | rrr__ | oh hey thanks i must be blind :p |
| 08:29.31 | Khertan | bigbrovar: maybe there is a reason for this orphaned ... because everybody think that is solution is better ... and backup on ftp sucks ... so do not implement it |
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| 08:31.08 | bigbrovar | Khertan: is insecure why not scp .. heck.. buy a dropbox account and be done with it.. I use dropbox to back up my essential config files |
| 08:33.26 | Khertan | bigbrovar: it s insecure ... right ... this is why it s on a local network "machine" |
| 08:33.47 | Khertan | bigbrovar: it s a small nas ... with four hard drive |
| 08:33.59 | Khertan | but doesn't support rsync over ftp |
| 08:34.04 | Khertan | but doesn't support rsync over ssh |
| 08:34.07 | RST38h | moos at Khertan and Sts |
| 08:34.15 | Khertan | hi RST38h |
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| 08:35.36 | bigbrovar | Khertan: why not mount the remote network drive then use rsync from, there. or you could use backupPC if that is not an over kill |
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| 08:36.23 | Khertan | bigbrovar: because i cannot mount it |
| 08:36.44 | bigbrovar | Khertan: ahh |
| 08:36.49 | Khertan | oh ... fuck ... i can mount it in ftp |
| 08:36.57 | Khertan | lol i ve forgotten that exists |
| 08:37.02 | bigbrovar | Khertan: i was thinking same |
| 08:37.05 | Khertan | i always use mount ssh |
| 08:37.19 | Khertan | i ve forgotten this feature |
| 08:37.22 | Khertan | thx |
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| 08:37.39 | bigbrovar | Khertan: i think dolphin has that feature inbuilt |
| 08:37.43 | asdm | I have a N770 I enabled usb host mode and installed Carman app and i plugged in the USB OBD reader to the N770 its registers at address5 but i think the porgram only reads bluetooth devices |
| 08:37.43 | asdm | is there a way i can make the usb look like a bluetooth device to n770 |
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| 08:38.17 | bigbrovar | Khertan: btw are u lucky enough to have a n900 in your possession ? |
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| 08:39.45 | Khertan | bigbrovar: yep |
| 08:40.23 | hrw | morning |
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| 08:41.56 | bigbrovar | Khertan: first i hate you :p .. second I have been asking this question and no one has been able to answer. How well is the proxy support of the N900. the n810 had very good proxy support when it comes to preinstalled applications ..( with the exception of the IM Chat app which never worked behind a network proxy) |
| 08:42.49 | adeus | considering that all nokia devs are inside a proxy, I'd guess the support is good |
| 08:42.53 | bigbrovar | Khertan: and no 3rd party app worked when you are behind a network proxy. there seem unable to use the system wide proxy settings. and very few had their own inbuilt proxy settings.. |
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| 08:44.04 | bigbrovar | adeus: for pre-installed apps yes.. (except the chat applications on the N810 which seems to be an upstream problem, because telepathy as at then did suport http proxy ) |
| 08:44.09 | Khertan | and no 3rd party app worked when you are behind a network proxy. <<< it s depends if the dev is a good one ... or made crap code |
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| 08:44.30 | Khertan | bigbrovar: proxy seems to be well supported |
| 08:44.38 | Khertan | as i use one ... |
| 08:44.43 | ShadowJK | it doesn't change for 3rd party apps |
| 08:45.06 | Khertan | ShadowJK: it does ... when the dev use direct socket call :) |
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| 08:45.45 | ShadowJK | I mean, there's not much you can do to make third party apps support it, besides modifying the app |
| 08:45.47 | jsmanrique | hello |
| 08:45.50 | bigbrovar | Khertan: even with 3rd party applicaitons like mauku, canola, mastory (former wordpy) and gpodder ( all this applications and more didnt work on the n810 ) |
| 08:46.07 | jsmanrique | anyone has an answer from DDP about what is happenning? |
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| 08:47.03 | Khertan | bigbrovar: it s was working with my n810 |
| 08:47.18 | Khertan | not sure for canola |
| 08:47.39 | Khertan | works with my proxy for mauku mastory |
| 08:47.49 | bigbrovar | Khertan: even behind a network proxy? cus afaik i even filed a bug for mauku, and wordpy to support proxy |
| 08:47.49 | Khertan | i ven't try with gpodder |
| 08:48.17 | bigbrovar | Khertan: and canola also doesnt... |
| 08:48.22 | Khertan | Khertan: even behind a network proxy? <<< yep ... it use the one in the network config settings |
| 08:48.33 | Khertan | bigbrovar: for canola i don't know ... i didn't use it |
| 08:49.00 | bigbrovar | Khertan: only pidgin, skype, and xchat did from the apps i tried and there had inbuilt proxy support |
| 08:49.44 | Khertan | strange |
| 08:50.04 | *** join/#maemo fab (n=bellet@monkey.creatis.insa-lyon.fr) |
| 08:50.06 | bigbrovar | the most painful is maemo weather which never worked for me.. and i knew it was the proxy issue |
| 08:50.22 | *** join/#maemo lardman|home (n=simon@78.150.120.147) |
| 08:50.22 | Khertan | omweather you mean ? |
| 08:50.28 | lardman|home | morning |
| 08:50.46 | bigbrovar | Khertan: both gnome and kde ( and even symbian) third party apps works fine using the systemwide proxy settings |
| 08:52.11 | Jaffa | bigbrovar: There's a bug in Maemo where it doesn't expose http_proxy correctly to apps, AFAIK |
| 08:52.22 | bigbrovar | here is a forum post i made about the issue http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32814 |
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| 08:53.01 | bigbrovar | Jaffa: thanks .. that is a major bug.. any idea if its fixed in maemo5? |
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| 08:53.55 | Jaffa | bigbrovar: Dunno, not tested. Probably should, as it'll impact Python's webbrowser module, which is used by python-facebook, which is used by Hermes. |
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| 08:54.39 | bigbrovar | Jaffa: do you have a link to the bug report? |
| 08:56.19 | Jaffa | bigbrovar: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3712 contains some stuff |
| 08:56.20 | povbot | Bug 3712: RSS reader uses proxy settings even when proxy disabled |
| 08:57.11 | hrw | maemo5 in 1024x600 looks mixed |
| 08:57.12 | *** join/#maemo kalikiana (n=kalikian@xfce/goodies-developer/kalikiana) |
| 08:57.25 | hrw | some apps looks ok, some bad, some (like Clock) show bugs |
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| 08:58.30 | timeless_mbp | frowns |
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| 08:58.54 | hrw | Calendar crashes like hell with my Joe Average contact... |
| 08:59.11 | hrw | 'Birthday calendar does not exist !!' and then crash |
| 08:59.14 | hrw | heh. |
| 08:59.20 | dmj726 | hrw: trying to run maemo5 on a netbook? |
| 08:59.30 | hrw | dmj726: no, maemo5 sdk still |
| 08:59.52 | bigbrovar | Jaffa: thanks |
| 09:00.41 | timeless_mbp | hrw: file a bug? |
| 09:00.46 | *** join/#maemo sphenxes01 (n=sphenxes@85-127-168-223.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 09:00.52 | timeless_mbp | preferably identify the crash id for it... |
| 09:00.57 | timeless_mbp | or do you not have crash-reporter? |
| 09:01.07 | *** join/#maemo pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0C0BA.access.telenet.be) |
| 09:01.49 | hrw | timeless_mbp: device first, then bugs |
| 09:02.02 | timeless_mbp | oh bah |
| 09:02.20 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 09:02.31 | hrw | timeless_mbp: I want to be sure that bugs occur also on device |
| 09:02.35 | jaem | timeless_mbp, hi |
| 09:02.38 | timeless_mbp | hello |
| 09:02.43 | timeless_mbp | needs to fix ok/cancel |
| 09:02.46 | jaem | sigh... |
| 09:02.55 | jaem | is registering on the government student loan website |
| 09:02.58 | jaem | their forms are stupid |
| 09:03.23 | jaem | the ToS agreement form tells you to enter your password and click the "I agree" button |
| 09:03.36 | *** join/#maemo EspadaV8_W (n=andrew@213.208.81.106) |
| 09:03.45 | *** join/#maemo Xisdibik (n=Xisdibik@c-24-5-197-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 09:03.45 | jaem | however, if you don't agree, you have to select the "I disagree" radiobutton... and then click "I agree" to submit |
| 09:03.47 | jaem | >)< |
| 09:04.05 | dmj726 | You agree to disagree? |
| 09:04.12 | dmj726 | :P |
| 09:04.13 | jaem | maybe |
| 09:04.30 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 09:04.33 | timeless_mbp | absolutely! |
| 09:04.47 | jaem | also, on the "edit your personal information" form, the "best time to call" field defaults to 12am, and doesn't force you to change it before submitting |
| 09:05.25 | *** join/#maemo Disconnect (n=Disconne@sigkill.net) |
| 09:05.57 | hrw | timeless_mbp: which crash-reporter? |
| 09:06.07 | timeless_mbp | oh nokia-maemo has a crash reporter |
| 09:06.12 | timeless_mbp | which we probably don't ship :) |
| 09:06.12 | *** part/#maemo millenomi (n=millenom@93.35.148.119) |
| 09:06.15 | timeless_mbp | it was called nitro in diablo |
| 09:06.22 | *** join/#maemo xolubi (n=ezra@41.222.209.90) |
| 09:06.24 | timeless_mbp | now it's "crash-reporter" |
| 09:06.41 | hrw | timeless_mbp: and still nokia internal only? |
| 09:06.48 | timeless_mbp | dunno |
| 09:06.56 | timeless_mbp | ask eero |
| 09:07.01 | hrw | who? |
| 09:07.03 | timeless_mbp | or search to see if it's in extra-* |
| 09:07.26 | hrw | itis |
| 09:07.48 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 09:07.49 | hrw | and not installable it is |
| 09:07.56 | timeless_mbp | not installable? |
| 09:08.10 | jaem | hrw, fix your packages, you must... mrrmmm |
| 09:08.15 | jaem | ;) |
| 09:08.17 | *** join/#maemo sp3000 (n=tt@hoasnet-fe21dd00-183.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 09:08.27 | timeless_mbp | bah, i should ask sp3000 for help |
| 09:08.35 | *** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoasb-ff0ddd00-14.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 09:08.39 | hrw | ok, found why |
| 09:08.42 | *** join/#maemo jkyro (i=jasu@dsl-hkibrasgw1-fe23f900-77.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 09:08.49 | hrw | some packages failed to install in sbox |
| 09:09.02 | hrw | ~curse sbox for crappy 'I should be root' handling |
| 09:09.03 | infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, sbox for crappy 'I should be root' handling ! |
| 09:09.20 | *** join/#maemo sergio_ (n=sergio@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 09:13.20 | hrw | ok, removed few packages and system is going on |
| 09:13.44 | *** join/#maemo Fargus (n=Fargus@195.99.172.226) |
| 09:13.59 | suihkulokki | hrw: you mean you didn't use fakeroot and changing uid/gid of files didn't work? |
| 09:15.12 | hrw | suihkulokki: I refuse to read sbox manuals. as it allows me to use apt-get then I use it |
| 09:15.26 | suihkulokki | you can't "apt-get install" as non-root a pc either |
| 09:15.27 | jaem | what exactly does fakeroot do, anyhow? |
| 09:15.45 | hrw | suihkulokki: on pc I cannot. in sbox I can |
| 09:16.03 | timeless_mbp | http://linux.die.net/man/1/fakeroot |
| 09:16.12 | hrw | suihkulokki: ofcourse some postinstall scripts complain about it but for me it is a bug in a way which sbox works |
| 09:16.18 | jaem | timeless_mbp, heh... yeah |
| 09:16.22 | jaem | that would work - sorry |
| 09:16.35 | suihkulokki | hrw: because inside sbox dirs in /usr /var etc are user writable |
| 09:17.04 | *** join/#maemo zs (n=zs@188.220.50.10) |
| 09:17.12 | suihkulokki | ofcourse apt in sbox could be patched to exit if not under fakeroot... |
| 09:18.02 | hrw | suihkulokki: as I do not plan to use maemo5sdk vbox image for development I am fine with totally broken system in it due to 'sbox is not root but tries to behave like one' thing |
| 09:18.04 | suihkulokki | doesnt like sbox but thinks hrw is being a epic whiner atm. |
| 09:18.17 | hrw | suihkulokki: I am atm |
| 09:18.54 | jaem | yay, whining |
| 09:19.59 | RST38h | sb2! sb2! |
| 09:20.24 | alterego | Or you could just alias 'apt-get' to 'fakeroot apt-get' :P |
| 09:20.38 | hrw | http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/tmp/pic10.jpg is lovely |
| 09:21.00 | suihkulokki | alias "sudo" as "fakeroot" and use it like you'd on a pc =) |
| 09:21.00 | timeless_mbp | alterego: so that apt-get --download-only would do something stupid |
| 09:21.21 | alterego | Heh |
| 09:21.24 | alterego | Okay, |
| 09:21.36 | timeless_mbp | hrw: nice |
| 09:21.41 | alterego | Could write a simple wrapper script |
| 09:21.55 | lardman|home | curiously I don't need to use fakeroot for anything other than building |
| 09:22.20 | hrw | lardman|home: fakeroot for building??? |
| 09:23.52 | lardman|home | yeah you know dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot |
| 09:24.02 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 09:24.08 | Corsac | hhm, n900 seems to be available on nokia.fr too |
| 09:24.11 | hrw | ah.. building+packaging |
| 09:24.14 | Corsac | but 650⬠is really to expensive |
| 09:24.17 | *** join/#maemo borism (n=boris@213.35.232.204) |
| 09:24.22 | hrw | lardman|home: "debuild" is more comfortable |
| 09:24.25 | *** join/#maemo florian_kc (n=fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 09:24.26 | lardman|home | hrw: yeah sorry all combined |
| 09:25.35 | aquatix | Corsac: it's available for 530 EUR here in the netherlands |
| 09:25.40 | aquatix | well, `available' |
| 09:25.51 | hrw | aquatix: 'listed in shop' |
| 09:25.56 | aquatix | indeed |
| 09:26.09 | *** join/#maemo tKMFDM (n=tKMFDM@ip5658167f.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 09:26.23 | hrw | 2499 PLN in Poland |
| 09:26.30 | lardman|home | hmm, my diablo app is non-hildonised (inc the window) I wonder what's gone wrong...? |
| 09:26.41 | hrw | which means ~604⬠|
| 09:27.06 | Corsac | aquatix: in nokia website or in physical stores? |
| 09:27.17 | aquatix | Corsac: estores |
| 09:27.33 | aquatix | http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/244767/nokia-n900-zwart.html (dutch pricewatch site) |
| 09:27.41 | konttori | loves transmission on n900 (sorry for totally unnecessary comment, just had to shout out loud) |
| 09:27.57 | lardman|home | does Diablo not have a hildon-style gtk_init()? |
| 09:28.04 | RST38h | ah you pirate =) |
| 09:28.15 | timeless_mbp | ok |
| 09:28.19 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 09:28.21 | timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/ |
| 09:28.25 | timeless_mbp | now has two versions of fremantle |
| 09:28.34 | timeless_mbp | note that fremantle-41 is slightly broken, and i'm not sure i'll try to fix it |
| 09:28.41 | timeless_mbp | fremantle-42 is more interesting anyway |
| 09:29.29 | RST38h | GIMP to be removed from Ubuntu 10.04 |
| 09:29.53 | timeless_mbp | RST38h: it isn't an end user tool |
| 09:29.57 | alterego | :( |
| 09:29.59 | hrw | hm. N900 comes with WH-205 headphones. they have accept call button. does it work with n900? |
| 09:30.07 | *** join/#maemo mikhas (n=mikhas@85.183.48.167) |
| 09:30.14 | lardman|home | I didn't get any :( |
| 09:30.26 | alterego | I want to know if my N95/96 media headphones will work with the N900, unlikely I guess. |
| 09:30.30 | lardman|home | are they the same as came with N8x0? |
| 09:30.34 | jaem | RST38h, oh really? |
| 09:30.35 | jaem | link? |
| 09:30.36 | hrw | lardman|home: tried to connect HS-47 from n8x0? |
| 09:30.38 | lardman|home | nah, N95 ones don't workj |
| 09:30.40 | aquatix | RST38h: from default install/cd yes |
| 09:30.52 | lardman|home | hrw: not sure if I have a working pair anymore |
| 09:30.55 | hrw | alterego: so far they do not |
| 09:30.57 | aquatix | still, i think it's not a good move, as it is a nice demo app |
| 09:31.00 | Jaffa | RST38h: More accurately, what aquatix said. |
| 09:31.30 | alterego | That's a bit rubbish, I like the media controls on those remotes, I use them all the time. |
| 09:31.34 | konttori | RST38h: no.... for downloading carmic coala! |
| 09:31.35 | aquatix | but apparantly not that interesting for the default demographic canonical targets |
| 09:31.43 | konttori | for use on my... n900 |
| 09:31.49 | jaem | konttori, "carmic coala"? Is that the non-KDE version? :P |
| 09:31.54 | aquatix | teehee |
| 09:31.56 | hrw | alterego: so do I. I use AD-44 (2.5mm) with my E66 |
| 09:32.06 | aquatix | jaem: that's with CDE as default WM |
| 09:32.14 | aquatix | s/WM/DE |
| 09:32.22 | jaem | aquatix, ha |
| 09:32.41 | konttori | RST38h: if they remove gimp from 10.04 will they also finally remove the GIMP toolkit? |
| 09:32.44 | timeless_mbp | konttori: hrm, i think i meant to kick you |
| 09:33.02 | timeless_mbp | konttori: sounds more like an Ubuntu 11 or Ubuntu 12 goal :) |
| 09:33.11 | jaem | gah... stupid website |
| 09:33.23 | jaem | my cell carrier keeps expiring my account, but not freeing the username |
| 09:33.29 | konttori | would be great. Imho, they should just embrace qt and be done with it |
| 09:33.32 | jaem | so I'm on the fifth username now |
| 09:33.33 | jaem | :/ |
| 09:33.48 | jaem | konttori, QIMP? |
| 09:33.52 | konttori | and have ubuntu as the non-cluttered version of kde. |
| 09:33.53 | konttori | lol! |
| 09:33.53 | jaem | didn't somebody try that? |
| 09:34.06 | hrw | alterego: but if acceptcall button on WH-205/HS-47 works then AD-54 should be doable |
| 09:34.06 | mikhas | the channel for qt trolls is #troll =p |
| 09:34.11 | Khertan | hum ... question ... when i mount a ftp on the desktop with ubuntu ... it s not possible to access it by command line ? |
| 09:34.15 | konttori | jaem: I did mean gnome moving to qt |
| 09:34.25 | jaem | mikhas, good troll or bad troll? :P |
| 09:34.35 | konttori | would be much better if gnome and kde both used just qt |
| 09:34.37 | aquatix | Khertan: you mean through fuse? |
| 09:34.40 | jaem | does Qt Software have a channel? |
| 09:34.46 | aquatix | Khertan: it's mounted in your homedir somewhere |
| 09:34.48 | konttori | and have the two design filosophies for the desktop |
| 09:34.57 | Khertan | aquatix: i don't if it s use fuse anyway |
| 09:35.03 | konttori | #qt |
| 09:35.08 | jaem | right |
| 09:35.09 | jaem | heh |
| 09:35.11 | *** part/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 09:35.15 | Khertan | konttori: it ll be better if kde use gtk |
| 09:35.20 | *** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 09:35.27 | Khertan | [10:35] <Khertan> konttori: it ll be better if kde use gtk |
| 09:35.34 | jaem | Khertan, gah! no - don't say that! |
| 09:35.42 | konttori | Khertan: are you serious? |
| 09:35.54 | konttori | qt is far superior to gimp toolkit |
| 09:35.56 | Khertan | konttori: yep ... keep gtk ... |
| 09:36.03 | Khertan | konttori: you think it is ... |
| 09:36.11 | jaem | sniffs |
| 09:36.14 | mikhas | opinions dont make facts |
| 09:36.16 | jaem | is that burning bits? |
| 09:36.17 | Khertan | konttori: but it s your point of view |
| 09:36.27 | jaem | smells flaming bits |
| 09:36.29 | Khertan | konttori: i clearly prefer gkt |
| 09:36.34 | konttori | well, true enough. Anyway, I prefer gnome over kde any day |
| 09:36.47 | Khertan | specially when coding in python |
| 09:36.57 | konttori | but qt and qt c++ are much better dev envs than gobject. |
| 09:36.59 | hrw | use whatever you want. |
| 09:37.08 | konttori | yeah, python and gtk make gtk quite nice to use |
| 09:37.09 | Khertan | konttori: for you ... not for me |
| 09:37.31 | Stskeeps | at least we have sortof freedom on toolkit on maemo5 :P |
| 09:37.33 | Khertan | just a example |
| 09:37.35 | RST38h | konttori: Are you installing karmic koala on your N900 right now? =) |
| 09:37.43 | Khertan | i ve made a ui with glade |
| 09:37.56 | Khertan | i m trying to made the same with qtdesigner |
| 09:37.59 | jaem | Stskeeps, have they made Qt packages for the N900 yet that don't fill up the rootfs :/ |
| 09:38.01 | jaem | ? |
| 09:38.17 | Khertan | it s just not easy to use |
| 09:38.18 | konttori | RST38h: lol... |
| 09:38.26 | jaem | I need it installed for a university project, but I don't want to uninstall everything else |
| 09:38.27 | RST38h | konttori: If they remove GTK, GNOME people at Ubuntu may go postal and literally murder our last hope for a Linux desktop =) |
| 09:38.31 | jaem | I think they're not packaged properly |
| 09:38.43 | jaem | RST38h, fair point |
| 09:39.00 | konttori | jaem: qt packages are optified |
| 09:39.09 | konttori | and there is both 4.6 and 4.5 available |
| 09:39.16 | jaem | konttori, really? |
| 09:39.16 | jaem | huh |
| 09:39.23 | jaem | where is 4.6 available from? -devel? |
| 09:40.02 | konttori | by the way, most of ovi store apps for n900 are qt based |
| 09:40.05 | hrw | btw - which resolution is available on tvout from n900? qpal? qntsc? |
| 09:40.07 | Khertan | [10:39] <konttori> jaem: qt packages are optified <<< are you sure ? last time i fill up the / |
| 09:40.23 | Khertan | konttori: this doesn't make them good :) |
| 09:40.25 | jaem | Khertan, that's what I thought... at least, as of about two days ago |
| 09:40.47 | Khertan | pyside one isn't ... |
| 09:41.09 | kirma | hrw: I understood in general use, it's the native display resolution rescaled |
| 09:41.12 | lardman|home | how can one debug a .desktop file which isn't starting the app (which starts from the commandline?) |
| 09:41.32 | kirma | specific hardware capabilities would be interesting, certainly |
| 09:41.39 | lardman|home | and, can I use the same .desktop file on Diablo and Fremantle (i.e. a Fremantle one on Diablo that is) |
| 09:41.52 | konttori | Khertan: pyside isn't optified that's for sure |
| 09:42.05 | konttori | also could be that 4.5 is not either, I thought it is, but not sure |
| 09:42.11 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (n=andre@g1.blanicka25.net) |
| 09:42.19 | Khertan | lardman|home: pray |
| 09:42.31 | jaem | konttori, sorry to reiterate, but where is 4.6 available from? |
| 09:42.36 | jaem | I kind of need it :P |
| 09:42.37 | lardman|home | Khertan: that bad? :( |
| 09:42.40 | hrw | kirma: rescaled but to which res... |
| 09:42.55 | Khertan | lardman|home: there is no way to debug this things ... |
| 09:43.01 | lardman|home | Khertan: curiously I can't start it from the main menu and from the command line I've lost my hildon window and am back to a normal one |
| 09:43.13 | Khertan | just modif ... try ... pray ... modif ... try ... pray ... |
| 09:43.20 | suihkulokki | jaem: http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/qt4-maemo5/4.6.0~git20091118-0maemo1/ |
| 09:43.26 | jaem | yay |
| 09:43.27 | lardman|home | lol |
| 09:43.28 | jaem | thanks |
| 09:43.30 | suihkulokki | jaem: also, #qt-maemo |
| 09:43.34 | jaem | oh right... that reminds me |
| 09:43.45 | jaem | Extras-devel is complaining at me when I try to refresh |
| 09:43.50 | jaem | one sec - I'll grab the error |
| 09:43.59 | alterego | The transition from Gtk to Qt is going to be interesting. |
| 09:44.10 | alterego | I think we're going to lose a lot of valuable applications in the process for quite some time. |
| 09:44.14 | Khertan | [10:44] <alterego> The transition from Gtk to Qt is going to be interesting. <<< nope .... it will not be |
| 09:44.45 | konttori | alterego: well, harmattan will have gtk support still. |
| 09:44.46 | Khertan | i still don't understand why not keeping gtk |
| 09:44.50 | Jaffa | alterego: Most should be OK with carrying on using Gtk; the question is how much will a Gtk app have to change to match whatever new UI comes in |
| 09:44.51 | jaem | error is: "No Hash entry in Release file /var/lib/apt/lists.new/....extras-devel_dists_fremantle_Release" |
| 09:44.53 | Khertan | it s really a bad idea |
| 09:45.08 | konttori | well, DUI is totally new stuff. |
| 09:45.09 | mikhas | alterego, Qt devs will have to rewrite their apps as well =) |
| 09:45.12 | jaem | Khertan, well, they bought Trolltech for a reason... |
| 09:45.16 | Jaffa | Khertan: Every time the screen redraws during rotation the limitations of Gtk are obvioous |
| 09:45.32 | konttori | if you want the eye-candy and the convenience, then you need to do quite a bit of porting even from a qt app. |
| 09:45.38 | alterego | mikhas: They wont have to do a complete rewriite, where as a lot of gnome tech based apps might. |
| 09:45.42 | Khertan | Jaffa: which limitation ? |
| 09:45.56 | alterego | Is this move from Gtk+ to Qt, going to make all the glib stuff redundant aswell? |
| 09:46.05 | jaem | hrm... anyone know what's up with extras-devel? Is it just me? |
| 09:46.06 | konttori | gtktreeview limitations are pretty obvious as well |
| 09:46.08 | konttori | compared to what qt has |
| 09:46.09 | alterego | Will libosso get pushed into a C++ Qt based implementation? |
| 09:46.11 | Jaffa | Khertan: That it doesn't work very well for the kind of thing they're doing with it. |
| 09:46.18 | konttori | glib will stay |
| 09:46.26 | Jaffa | jaem: Not tried recently; I'll turn it on so I can test the optified Python... hang on |
| 09:46.35 | jaem | Jaffa, thanks |
| 09:46.42 | konttori | libosso will probably be deprecated (not sure, but my guess) |
| 09:46.44 | Khertan | konttori: i found the tree view is good ... the qt one ... i ven't yet successfully use it ... too much complex |
| 09:46.51 | RST38h | konttori: Which does not say much about Ovi Store, given its app acceptancepolicies =( |
| 09:46.59 | mikhas | konttori, I dont see where a cellrenderer is limited compared to that data() + delegate hack |
| 09:47.08 | RST38h | konttori: No, seriously, who came up with that crap? |
| 09:47.16 | Khertan | Jaffa: which kind ... it s work well on maemo 5 ... |
| 09:47.20 | konttori | view + model + delegate you mean |
| 09:47.22 | alterego | tbh, I don't really see much point in libosso anyway, it's just a dbus wrapper with some application reigstration crap. |
| 09:47.35 | alterego | It's something extra that we shouldn't really need to worry about. |
| 09:47.43 | konttori | the policies are for symbian app |
| 09:47.50 | konttori | development |
| 09:47.59 | mikhas | no, I meant the direct comparision of the niceties a cellrenderer offers vs. the ugliness that data() + delegate offer |
| 09:48.19 | konttori | sorry, emilia is 'helping' me type better |
| 09:48.49 | Khertan | don't like how interface are think in qt ... but like how it s done in gtk |
| 09:49.07 | lardman|home | argh, give me my hildon window back you buggers! |
| 09:49.16 | lardman|home | not talking to anyone in particular |
| 09:49.21 | Khertan | :) |
| 09:50.10 | konttori | policies for ovi store apps will msot likely be different for n900 apps once ovi store is opened |
| 09:50.29 | konttori | but, to be hones, I don't have a clear visibility to the ovi store process, that's just my own guessing |
| 09:50.32 | *** join/#maemo monkeyiq (n=monkeyiq@124.148.73.246) |
| 09:51.09 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 09:51.27 | tero | could someone tell me why my treeview's row height changes when I put in into hildon.pannablearea instead of gtk.scrolledwindow? |
| 09:52.01 | *** join/#maemo dneary (n=dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
| 09:52.05 | tero | on maemo5 |
| 09:52.45 | RST38h | tero: I think you want an extra vbox |
| 09:53.08 | lardman|home | doesn't look forward to debugging Diablo .desktop file this evening |
| 09:53.09 | lardman|home | bbl |
| 09:53.26 | RST38h | konttori: Even for Symbian apps, this stuff sounds ridiculous :) |
| 09:53.36 | *** join/#maemo trbs (n=trbs@87.215.139.10) |
| 09:53.56 | *** join/#maemo monkeyiq (n=monkeyiq@124.148.73.246) |
| 09:54.52 | konttori | RST38h: it does, but I don't care about symbian apps |
| 09:55.06 | konttori | so, it's all perfectly fine if they shoot themselves in the foot |
| 09:55.40 | konttori | as long as we make it so that we allow also some of you guys to dev apps that you can use to make some income as well |
| 09:55.56 | *** join/#maemo monkeyiq (n=monkeyiq@124.148.73.246) |
| 09:56.28 | kirma | hrw: you might dig up specifics supported by omap3 from this: http://www-s.ti.com/sc/techlit/sprufa4 |
| 09:56.45 | konttori | and that cannot happen as long as we have silly policies like that 1 meur insurance |
| 09:56.53 | kirma | heh, 421 pages ;) |
| 09:57.48 | kirma | I believe the hardware could generate "native" resolution signal to tv out easily, but it's just not implemented on software |
| 09:57.51 | kirma | might be nice though |
| 09:58.31 | *** join/#maemo monkeyiqchin (n=monkeyiq@124.148.73.246) |
| 09:59.06 | timeless_mbp | hrm |
| 09:59.11 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=Valerio@Maemo/community/council/VDVsx) |
| 09:59.13 | timeless_mbp | what's the bug # for OK/Cancel in browser? |
| 09:59.13 | kirma | I suppose N900 output is composite video? |
| 09:59.43 | *** join/#maemo monkeyiq (n=monkeyiq@124.148.73.246) |
| 09:59.47 | timeless_mbp | kirma: as opposed to? |
| 09:59.59 | kirma | s-video |
| 10:00.06 | kirma | supported by OMAP3 |
| 10:00.26 | kirma | oh well. I could check the service manual that I have somewhere... |
| 10:01.03 | gouverneur | kirma: the OMAP3 supports IrDA but we dont know if the Ir device does yet |
| 10:01.32 | timeless_mbp | kirma: there's no video port |
| 10:01.39 | fragment | kirma: composite, cable is included |
| 10:01.47 | gouverneur | kirma: service manual? |
| 10:01.48 | timeless_mbp | there's a 3.5" port which works with a composite out cable |
| 10:01.57 | kirma | fragment: yep, so I thought |
| 10:02.31 | gouverneur | timeless_mbp: its mm |
| 10:02.35 | kirma | gouverneur: you know, for service centers diagnosing problems |
| 10:02.41 | timeless_mbp | gouverneur: oops :) |
| 10:02.41 | tero | RST38h: thanks, that fixed the row height.. unfortunately it also broke scrolling using treeview.scroll_to_cell() :/ |
| 10:02.46 | timeless_mbp | 3.5" screen, 3.5mm jack |
| 10:02.48 | timeless_mbp | so confusing :) |
| 10:02.56 | *** join/#maemo Xisdibik (n=Xisdibik@c-24-5-197-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 10:03.01 | timeless_mbp | it didn't sound right when i typed/read it, so thanks for the correction :) |
| 10:03.02 | kirma | timeless_mbp: I suppose it's composite video and mono audio or something? |
| 10:03.10 | *** join/#maemo Openfree` (n=Openfree@203.110.163.133) |
| 10:03.14 | jaem | Jaffa, any word? |
| 10:03.17 | aquatix | timeless_mbp: 3.5' batterypack? |
| 10:03.20 | timeless_mbp | there are 3 cables: red, yellow, white |
| 10:03.27 | gouverneur | kirma: is there a leak in your service center? like FAX or a scanner? ;) |
| 10:03.28 | timeless_mbp | my impression is that it's stereo |
| 10:03.40 | timeless_mbp | s/cables/plugs/ ? |
| 10:03.52 | gouverneur | cinch |
| 10:04.03 | aquatix | timeless_mbp: red and white sound like stereo |
| 10:04.05 | gouverneur | all three and stereo yes |
| 10:04.33 | gouverneur | like the video3 input on your TV |
| 10:05.01 | gouverneur | (most of the time t´his is 3) |
| 10:05.08 | kirma | gouverneur: google for n900 service manual... there's a site that basically sells these things for rather low subscription fee if you're interested. the legality of it is... questionable, but maybe not in the country of origin. |
| 10:05.41 | *** join/#maemo monkeyiq (n=monkeyiq@124.148.73.246) |
| 10:05.53 | timeless_mbp | jaem: so... vibrate |
| 10:06.09 | gouverneur | kirma: you know that just for the sake I should not buy one |
| 10:06.11 | jaem | timeless_mbp, what? |
| 10:06.13 | timeless_mbp | hrm, i think i fixed that already |
| 10:06.18 | jaem | oh right |
| 10:06.19 | jaem | good |
| 10:06.20 | timeless_mbp | and i've fixed Yes/No :) |
| 10:06.24 | jaem | yay |
| 10:06.37 | jaem | do you have to check the no box, and then click yes? XD |
| 10:06.54 | hrw | kirma: I have 3 omap3 boards at desk |
| 10:07.00 | timeless_mbp | bah |
| 10:07.03 | hrw | kirma: and use 1280x800x16 with them |
| 10:07.03 | timeless_mbp | there's a vbox 3.0.12 |
| 10:07.05 | kirma | I'd say that service manual isn't particularly useful for anything unless one is addicted to reading technical documents |
| 10:07.48 | timeless_mbp | so... is anyone using mxr.maemo.org/fremantle? :) |
| 10:07.57 | kirma | hrw: I know it's possible, but details about TV out might be different... I suppose the doc I pasted might have some sort of an answer ;) |
| 10:08.06 | hrw | k |
| 10:08.35 | hrw | the worst thing is that this is composite. so PAL 720x576 is probably max what can be done |
| 10:08.37 | *** join/#maemo AD-N770 (n=jep@80.24.4.74) |
| 10:09.06 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 10:09.54 | timeless | stskeeps: vbox 3.0.12 killed my mbp |
| 10:09.59 | Stskeeps | timeless: not bad |
| 10:10.05 | timeless | it's chirping |
| 10:10.17 | kirma | "up to 60 megasamples per second" ... speaking of limitations imposed by the plain DAC on TV part |
| 10:10.44 | *** join/#maemo zaheerm (n=zaheer@93-97-43-61.zone5.bethere.co.uk) |
| 10:11.29 | Jaffa | jaem: Sorry, had a power cut. |
| 10:11.59 | Khertan | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/modest/src/gnome/modest-msg-edit-window.c <<< they use gtk source view ? |
| 10:12.00 | jaem | Jaffa, :( oops |
| 10:12.01 | Khertan | ??? |
| 10:12.10 | jaem | Khertan, O_o |
| 10:12.25 | Khertan | but on n900 it s look like a pannable area |
| 10:12.30 | RST38h | tero: It starts sounding like Avkon. |
| 10:12.32 | Khertan | not a scrolledwindow |
| 10:12.42 | jaem | speaking of, is there *really* no way to copy text out of Modest's message view window?! |
| 10:12.43 | RST38h | Which is disturbing. |
| 10:12.51 | Jaffa | jaem: extras-devel is working within HAM |
| 10:12.54 | RST38h | jaem: Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V |
| 10:13.01 | jaem | Jaffa, thanks, I'll give it another try |
| 10:13.07 | jaem | RST38h, but selecting... |
| 10:13.09 | jaem | is there a gesture |
| 10:13.14 | jaem | am I just an idiot? |
| 10:13.20 | RST38h | hmmm...it does not? lemme check |
| 10:13.29 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 10:13.30 | Jaffa | jaem: shift & Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V apparently |
| 10:13.34 | gouverneur | kirma: yes it is interessting to know the wireing of the device |
| 10:13.49 | gouverneur | kirma: on which side of open source do you live? |
| 10:13.53 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp_ (n=timeless@a88-115-8-36.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 10:14.01 | jaem | Jaffa, shift+drag? |
| 10:14.02 | jaem | or what? |
| 10:14.16 | hrw | timeless: I use vbox 3.0.12 on my debian |
| 10:14.26 | Jaffa | jaem: Shift+ Cursor keys was what was said in the earlier bug report |
| 10:14.27 | tero | RST38h: I guess the problem is that the pannablearea and treeview inside vbox don't know about each other |
| 10:14.29 | RST38h | Oh shit, it really does not let you mark text! |
| 10:14.41 | Jaffa | That's genious |
| 10:14.50 | timeless_mbp_ | hrw: how long have you had 3.0.12? |
| 10:14.51 | Jaffa | s/genious/genius/ *coughj* |
| 10:14.54 | RST38h | Is there a bug filed for that? |
| 10:14.57 | jaem | RST38h, :P |
| 10:15.00 | jaem | not yet |
| 10:15.20 | jaem | I would, but I'm trying to get a bursary application in, and it's 2:30am |
| 10:15.22 | jaem | do you mind? |
| 10:15.26 | timeless_mbp_ | ooh |
| 10:15.29 | timeless_mbp_ | there's a beta of 3.1 |
| 10:15.33 | timeless_mbp_ | hrw: have you tried the beta? |
| 10:15.35 | RST38h | jaem: Should I file? |
| 10:15.42 | jaem | RST38h, please |
| 10:15.47 | RST38h | ok |
| 10:16.47 | RST38h | tero: Treeview probably does not know how to scroll, it thinks it is shown wholly inside that vbox |
| 10:17.16 | kirma | gouverneur: I'm not quite certain what you refer to, but I'm not related to nokia... home hacker and professionally writing closed source network security running on open source based appliances |
| 10:17.34 | RST38h | tero: If there is a way to translate item id ==> y coordinate in the tree view, you can use that y cooridnate to scroll the vbox |
| 10:18.47 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 10:19.16 | timeless_mbp_ | RST38h: if you want to select text you have to use reply/forward |
| 10:19.43 | *** join/#maemo Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 10:21.00 | RST38h | sighs |
| 10:21.13 | RST38h | bug #6258 gentlemen |
| 10:21.14 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6258 Modest message view does not let user select text |
| 10:21.19 | *** join/#maemo matmo (n=chatzill@doconnel.force9.co.uk) |
| 10:21.31 | mikhas | I think I did select text once |
| 10:21.46 | mikhas | andre__ helped me wit that ... |
| 10:22.06 | mikhas | could it be it's a regression, rather than a new bug? |
| 10:22.18 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=Miranda@80-240-220-132.dnat.migtel.ru) |
| 10:22.52 | matmo | hi all, sure I saw a post a few weeks back about an exchange programme for N900's handed back from the summit loans. Did I imagine it or can anyone point me to info? |
| 10:23.36 | mikhas | RST38h, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5033 |
| 10:23.37 | povbot | Bug 5033: Select/Copy text withing email is nonintuitive/broken |
| 10:24.04 | RST38h | mikhas: Ah, so there was a bug for that! |
| 10:24.10 | mikhas | no not exactly |
| 10:24.11 | *** join/#maemo _berto_ (n=berto@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 10:24.15 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 10:24.19 | mikhas | this one is for "reply to email" mode |
| 10:24.24 | mikhas | yours is for "reading email" |
| 10:24.33 | RST38h | Ok, it is different then |
| 10:24.44 | mikhas | yes, perhaps link to it still |
| 10:24.58 | mikhas | and confirm that you can still select text in reply mode |
| 10:25.01 | RST38h | Althoguh it feels almost like there should be a single bug report for Modest: "Modest does nto work" |
| 10:25.06 | mikhas | =) |
| 10:25.32 | tigert | hey, it sends and receives mail :) |
| 10:25.41 | RST38h | tigert: for some people, yes |
| 10:25.49 | RST38h | tigert: for my pop3 account, it does not |
| 10:25.57 | *** join/#maemo sjaensch (n=sj@p54B6E3CF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:26.01 | tigert | ah |
| 10:26.19 | RST38h | pop3 is broken beyond usable |
| 10:26.29 | mikhas | yes, even without modest =p |
| 10:26.32 | jaem | RST38h, correction: in Diablo modest DidNotWork (TM)... in Fremantle it just has issues |
| 10:26.39 | RST38h | imap kinda works but goes bonkers over large folders (guess the size of gmail folders) |
| 10:26.57 | jaem | in fact, as much as some things like the lack of text selection are stupid, at least it functions, and is reasonably speddy |
| 10:27.04 | RST38h | jaem: That is a difference between DidNot and DoesNot. I am talking of N900 Modest |
| 10:27.06 | *** join/#maemo Lorthirk (n=cm0901@host21-182-dynamic.56-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:27.10 | jaem | Gmail IMAP on Diablo's Modest was completely unusable |
| 10:27.17 | jaem | on the N900 is just has issues |
| 10:27.28 | jaem | but it works well enough that I bother to use it |
| 10:27.33 | Stskeeps | hmm, anyone noticed location-test-gui in SDK? |
| 10:27.43 | RST38h | jaem: I also use it...Sometimes. Once a week. |
| 10:27.46 | *** join/#maemo zer0mdq (n=nnnnuser@190.190.193.33) |
| 10:27.54 | jaem | RST38h, I use it several times a day |
| 10:27.56 | Jaffa | jaem: It could be better if it made up its mind whether it had to be online or not to show you email; the caching implementation, and updating, is the second biggest annoyance to me after not having an option to put sigs below quotes and have a proper attribution |
| 10:27.58 | jaem | annoying bugs, yes |
| 10:28.06 | jaem | unusable, no - at least, not for me |
| 10:28.09 | RST38h | jaem: You are probably llucky to have your exact use case covered |
| 10:28.16 | jaem | RST38h, probably |
| 10:28.26 | RST38h | jaem: because I cannot use it for pop3 |
| 10:28.26 | jaem | but it's still miles better than Diablo's Modest |
| 10:28.32 | jaem | RST38h, :O |
| 10:28.52 | RST38h | And for GMail I sometimes use it, but can't call it pleasant experience |
| 10:28.52 | jaem | okay, I'll rephrase that... when it works, it works reasonably well |
| 10:28.54 | jaem | lol |
| 10:29.12 | jaem | the lack of a "search my inbox of 8000 messages" feature is a bit obtuse |
| 10:29.14 | jaem | :/ |
| 10:29.24 | RST38h | SSH + PINE does it for me |
| 10:29.42 | RST38h | Incredibly, lowly PINE *will* search my 8000-message folders |
| 10:30.01 | aquatix | (al)pine is rather nice |
| 10:30.40 | RST38h | But, of course, this cannot be counted as a victory for Maemo Devices :( |
| 10:30.50 | *** join/#maemo DantonicN800 (n=user@208.54.14.96) |
| 10:31.09 | jaem | I've finally decided that I do like kinetic scrolling in the terminal... however, has anyone else noticed that the cursor button sometimes doesn't appear? :S |
| 10:31.35 | jaem | I recently noticed it, although it had been nagging in the back of my head for a while, I think |
| 10:31.46 | jaem | I haven't seen it happen recently, but I'll file a bug when I do |
| 10:32.18 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 10:34.24 | jaem | has to get working on some Maemo coding this weekend |
| 10:34.51 | *** join/#maemo mairas (n=mairas@192.100.124.219) |
| 10:34.52 | SpeedEvil | batters a maemo cod, and eats it for breakfast. |
| 10:34.54 | jaem | my university project team has to get a demo ready for a high-publicity event, and we're really short on time |
| 10:35.15 | jaem | actually, first we have to demo it to Nokia |
| 10:35.23 | viq | I saw a package of claws-mail, that searches too ;) |
| 10:35.30 | jaem | then, a week and a half later, we have to demo it to a much larger audience |
| 10:35.32 | jaem | sigh |
| 10:35.35 | jaem | not enough time |
| 10:35.54 | jaem | huh |
| 10:35.55 | SpeedEvil | ponders what the project might be. |
| 10:36.01 | SpeedEvil | n900 powered velociraptor? |
| 10:36.04 | jaem | SpeedEvil, I can't say much at the moment |
| 10:36.06 | jaem | close |
| 10:36.10 | jaem | XP |
| 10:36.13 | jaem | just kidding |
| 10:36.32 | jaem | SpeedEvil, once it's been demoed, I can talk more about it |
| 10:36.40 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 10:36.53 | Jaffa | jaem: the cursor button doesn't appear if there's no scrollback |
| 10:36.58 | Jaffa | (e.g. you're using screen) |
| 10:37.03 | jaem | Jaffa, that could be it |
| 10:37.04 | jaem | heh |
| 10:37.11 | jaem | also explains why it was nagging at me |
| 10:37.22 | jaem | Jaffa, apt has no issue with extras-devel, but HAM still complains at me, and refuses to list it |
| 10:37.22 | jaem | odd |
| 10:37.48 | jaem | wait... nvm |
| 10:37.50 | jaem | hrmmmm |
| 10:38.00 | jaem | it says the catalogue failed, but it's listing it now |
| 10:43.33 | *** join/#maemo BBNS_ (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 10:45.30 | *** join/#maemo BBNS_ (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 10:47.36 | ccooke | Morning, all |
| 10:49.17 | hrw | argh... compiz in ubuntu |
| 10:49.28 | jaem | ccooke, morning |
| 10:49.47 | gouverneur | hrw: argh... ubuntu |
| 10:50.05 | aquatix | yay ubuntu |
| 10:50.06 | aquatix | :P |
| 10:50.11 | Shapeshifter | arch is the best |
| 10:50.18 | aquatix | no, debian! |
| 10:50.21 | gouverneur | Shapeshifter: depends |
| 10:50.27 | jaem | Shapeshifter, +1 |
| 10:50.29 | gouverneur | aquatix: depends aswell |
| 10:50.36 | aquatix | ghehe |
| 10:50.41 | Shapeshifter | gouverneur: you could even say "depends" for windows. |
| 10:50.41 | aquatix | to everyone his/her own |
| 10:50.47 | *** join/#maemo tekojo (n=quassel@Maemo/maemo.org/infrastructure/tekojo) |
| 10:50.47 | aquatix | doesn't care |
| 10:50.54 | jaem | gouverneur, true... I can appreciate both, despite not using *buntu on my primary machines |
| 10:50.55 | viq | Slashdot says ubuntu removes gimp as being "too complicated" ;P |
| 10:50.59 | Shapeshifter | clearly, windows the best. |
| 10:51.03 | Shapeshifter | if you want to play far cry |
| 10:51.06 | gouverneur | I would't install an arch or slack or gentoo onto a 24/7 productive server |
| 10:51.08 | aquatix | viq: only from default install/cd |
| 10:51.13 | jaem | Shapeshifter, viq, yeah - Windows has MSPain! |
| 10:51.19 | jaem | paint* |
| 10:51.20 | jaem | but also pain |
| 10:51.23 | jaem | -snerk- |
| 10:51.27 | tigert | slackware was fun in 1995 :) |
| 10:51.31 | Shapeshifter | mspain, right :) |
| 10:51.40 | tigert | it had the coolest theme for man page colors =) |
| 10:51.45 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (n=magao@157.88.94.233) |
| 10:51.48 | tigert | quite a bit has changed since... |
| 10:51.54 | gouverneur | viq: it is... or do you know some n00b who is able to work with any adobe programs? |
| 10:52.17 | Shapeshifter | gimp ain't that bad |
| 10:52.22 | gouverneur | scribus gimp and so on are known to be for advanced users only |
| 10:52.37 | jaem | gouverneur, it's a pity Paint.NET is... .NET |
| 10:52.42 | jaem | I quite liked it on Windows |
| 10:52.48 | jaem | even if it got a bit fat by the end |
| 10:52.51 | viq | gouverneur: I am not quallified to comment ;) |
| 10:53.00 | tigert | inkscape and gimp has gotten me this far on my professional career :) |
| 10:53.06 | Shapeshifter | real men use imagemagick xD |
| 10:53.11 | tigert | some Adobe stuff every now and then, but I keep returning to inkscape |
| 10:53.17 | jaem | Shapeshifter, real men use a hex editor |
| 10:53.22 | tigert | Shapeshifter: I do that too, but its a bit hard to edit shapes with it :) |
| 10:53.27 | Shapeshifter | jaem: I knew this was next |
| 10:53.32 | gouverneur | gimp isnt bad but its that feature rich that most joes get hit by dialoges they never understand |
| 10:53.35 | tigert | imagemagick is a resource hog thouhg |
| 10:53.41 | jaem | Shapeshifter, toggle switches and patch cables? :P |
| 10:53.51 | tigert | gouverneur: yeah its not a simple paint app :) |
| 10:53.52 | jaem | Shapeshifter, butterflies? |
| 10:53.59 | Shapeshifter | jaem: exactly. |
| 10:54.06 | tigert | gouverneur: then again, simple tools are there and it is no problem to get started |
| 10:54.29 | Shapeshifter | likes fireworks the most. |
| 10:54.37 | jaem | Shapeshifter, I actually took a class where we had to write ASM on paper, hand-assemble it from the back of a dead-tree reference manual, and type it into RAM on a hex keypad |
| 10:54.48 | jaem | they kept telling us they'd get the computers set up, but they didn't |
| 10:54.51 | jaem | in 8 months |
| 10:54.55 | jaem | >_< |
| 10:54.55 | Shapeshifter | ^^ |
| 10:54.58 | gouverneur | I use imagemagick for all pictures but for skizzing |
| 10:55.06 | tigert | the N810 theme was done in inkscape, vectors are nice for that stuff since it is easy to edit colors etc later |
| 10:55.09 | jaem | gouverneur, say again? |
| 10:55.17 | gouverneur | I use imagemagick for all pictures but for skizzing |
| 10:55.22 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 10:55.23 | gouverneur | ;) |
| 10:55.24 | tigert | and inkscape does a good job in keeping on the pixel grid |
| 10:55.28 | jaem | gouverneur, I meant, "clarify" |
| 10:55.34 | jaem | tigert, true |
| 10:55.35 | timeless_mbp | jaem: doesn't .NET run on Moonlight? |
| 10:55.39 | alterego | Inkscape is probably one of my favorite linux UI apps. |
| 10:55.41 | alterego | ~gui apps. |
| 10:55.53 | Shapeshifter | jaem: don't you know skizzing? It's like skiing, but for cool people. |
| 10:55.58 | alterego | timeless_mbp: you mean, moonlight runs on .net :P |
| 10:56.05 | jaem | timeless_mbp, Mono, yes, bt Paint.NET uses MS' proprietary ink extensions |
| 10:56.25 | timeless_mbp | mono moon, moon mono... |
| 10:56.32 | timeless_mbp | 'ink' |
| 10:56.34 | jaem | tigert, alterego, check out http://murphyslab.ca/2009/11/07/graphing-with-inkscape/ by a friend of mine |
| 10:56.36 | jaem | interesting read |
| 10:56.41 | timeless_mbp | ? |
| 10:56.48 | jaem | timeless_mbp, yeah - inking, as in with a pen |
| 10:56.53 | jaem | or a mouse, if you don't have a tablet |
| 10:57.07 | jaem | but last I checked, Mono had no equivalent libs |
| 10:57.13 | gouverneur | jaem: copy paste resize drawing-simple-things watermark text effects and so on I do with imagemagick if I need to do more than one picture |
| 10:57.30 | lardman | re |
| 10:57.35 | tigert | jaem: wow |
| 10:57.36 | gouverneur | ink I use for vector stuff |
| 10:57.37 | tigert | sweet |
| 10:57.44 | alterego | jaem: that is sweet, thanks :) |
| 10:58.01 | jaem | tigert, alterego, you're welcome, but all the credit goes to my friend |
| 10:58.22 | jaem | oh yeah... I went to Costco today, and scanned for networks on my N900... one of them had the SSID "...a Hidden Network" |
| 10:58.30 | jaem | ...I think they missed a crucial point there |
| 10:58.33 | jaem | Fail |
| 10:58.35 | tigert | :) |
| 10:58.35 | alterego | Hahah |
| 10:58.58 | tigert | I once saw "NEIGHBOUR: GET YOUR OWN GODDAMN INTERNET!" -ssid (in finnish of course) |
| 10:59.05 | tigert | that was pretty funny :) |
| 10:59.51 | jaem | tigert, lol... |
| 10:59.57 | jaem | hmm... I was thinking... Evernote + N900 would be awesome for lecture notes |
| 11:00.00 | timeless_mbp | jaem: um |
| 11:00.05 | timeless_mbp | is that really the side? |
| 11:00.06 | Shapeshifter | sometimes when I'm bored I'll take out kismet while on the train to work |
| 11:00.08 | timeless_mbp | er ssid |
| 11:00.08 | gouverneur | Shapeshifter: jaem: if they didnt remove avatars and so form maemo I could show you one of my pics (handmade not computer) |
| 11:00.11 | Shapeshifter | funny essids everywhere |
| 11:00.18 | timeless_mbp | because i think that's my localization's text |
| 11:00.20 | Shapeshifter | like "obama" |
| 11:00.22 | jaem | however, the people that take photos of the lecture notes tend to make a bad reputation by being stupid, and I don't want that stigma |
| 11:00.24 | inz | tigert, reminds me of the old "norwegian virus" -joke |
| 11:00.24 | Shapeshifter | "scheiss windows" |
| 11:00.35 | tigert | inz: ? |
| 11:00.39 | gouverneur | Shapeshifter: da hast du wohl recht |
| 11:00.46 | gouverneur | brb |
| 11:00.55 | inz | tigert, "You have just received a Norwegian virus. Since we are not so technologically advanced in Norway, this is a MANUAL virus. Please delete all the files on your hard disk yourself and send this mail to everyone you know." |
| 11:01.01 | Shapeshifter | gouverneur: was an essid I saw on the way to work ;) |
| 11:01.04 | timeless_mbp | "... a hidden network" |
| 11:01.08 | timeless_mbp | is the string i use |
| 11:01.18 | jaem | timeless_mbp, >_<... I should have guessed |
| 11:01.19 | timeless_mbp | so if H and N are capitalized, then the network really has that name |
| 11:01.23 | gouverneur | Shapeshifter: nice |
| 11:01.30 | tigert | jaem: pen + paper (less geeky and easier to write) + N900 camera to "fax" them to evernote would work |
| 11:01.36 | tigert | or flickr or whatever |
| 11:01.37 | jaem | in fact, I think a friend asked, and it came to mind |
| 11:01.38 | jaem | heh |
| 11:01.58 | gouverneur | Shapeshifter: a-hell-of-a-hotspot is coming along my way |
| 11:02.01 | timeless_mbp | i should see if there are any special characters i can stick into those buttons to highlight "this is *SPECIAL*" |
| 11:02.07 | Shapeshifter | ^^ |
| 11:02.18 | jaem | tigert, good point actually... I don't know why that didn't occur to me |
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| 11:02.25 | jaem | but their OCR seems pretty good |
| 11:02.50 | mikhas | my handwriting easily breaks any OCR |
| 11:03.04 | tigert | jaem: I do mindmaps and such usually when taking notes |
| 11:03.11 | tigert | so ocr is kinda pointless |
| 11:03.14 | tigert | so images would work for me |
| 11:03.30 | jaem | tigert, same for a lot of my notes, but the advantage of Evernote is that it stores images, but indexes the text |
| 11:03.46 | jaem | so I could, say, look up some calculus theorem by name, and find the graph |
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| 11:04.09 | tigert | oooh right |
| 11:04.09 | tigert | tries |
| 11:04.27 | jaem | hrm... has anyone tried hooking up a Wacom Bamboo tablet to the N810? |
| 11:04.44 | jaem | I doubt it would have enough current supply |
| 11:04.52 | jaem | but that would be pretty awesome for xournal |
| 11:05.04 | tigert | the touchscreen itself has pressure sensitivity a bit |
| 11:05.09 | jaem | my handwriting's pretty messy, so I have to zoom in way too far to write neatly |
| 11:05.11 | jaem | yeah |
| 11:05.18 | tigert | its much easier to draw on the screen itself when the dpi is high |
| 11:05.20 | jaem | but the panning bugs me |
| 11:05.23 | jaem | mmhmm |
| 11:05.24 | tigert | sure |
| 11:05.28 | jaem | I suppose |
| 11:05.32 | tigert | so write on a paper sheet and photograph it :) |
| 11:05.35 | tigert | less trouble :) |
| 11:05.37 | tigert | *snap* |
| 11:05.55 | jaem | I was bugging what's-his-name who's working on the Fremantle Xournal port to add some sort of paging ability |
| 11:06.09 | jaem | but with no hardware buttons on the face, that's a bit more awkward |
| 11:06.21 | jaem | a gesture would be nice |
| 11:06.37 | jaem | something that could be done with the hand that's holding the device, while using a stylus with the other |
| 11:06.40 | tigert | two fingers to pan? |
| 11:06.45 | tigert | and one to draw would work |
| 11:06.50 | SpeedEvil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270485833257&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D270485833257%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1 is clearly the correct solution for doing n900 images. |
| 11:06.57 | tigert | I guess you could detect something from the touch area size |
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| 11:07.34 | jaem | tigert, writing with your finger?! um... no |
| 11:08.19 | jaem | I meant a paging gesture, as in "do something with your left thumb to slide it right/carriage return on EOL" while writing with your right hand/stylus |
| 11:08.41 | jaem | as long as you're writing within the lines, it could work, and obviously you could turn it off if you're not |
| 11:08.56 | tigert | yeah |
| 11:09.29 | jaem | there was some talk about making it (in the future) be aware of larger units of writing than just strokes |
| 11:09.48 | jaem | e.g. it knows that a group of letter close together is a word, and can add intelligence based on that |
| 11:11.33 | Shapeshifter | mhh. I don't really get why resistive touch screens didn't have multitouch until only recently. |
| 11:11.51 | jaem | Shapeshifter, are those the 5-wire panels? |
| 11:11.53 | SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: it's more complex to implement. |
| 11:11.59 | jaem | or am I thinking of something else? |
| 11:12.13 | SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: you've got to basically segment the screen into lots of little screens to do multitouch |
| 11:12.22 | Shapeshifter | I'm still reading on how they actually work |
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| 11:13.45 | jaem | hmm... well, that application is done... my uni has a "work-study" program that allows you to work for a prof to earn some cash |
| 11:14.04 | jaem | only I didn't apply in time for this semester, so the project I mentioned that I'm doing, I'm doing for free |
| 11:14.14 | jaem | I'm hoping to get payed for it next semester :P |
| 11:14.33 | jaem | by the way, sbox allows multiple users, right? |
| 11:14.54 | jaem | that was the impression I was under, but then I was told otherwise... and I haven't had time to look into it |
| 11:15.14 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 11:15.21 | jaem | Stskeeps, any limitations? |
| 11:15.45 | Stskeeps | well, fakeroot affects all users i guess |
| 11:15.48 | Stskeeps | but i can't recall |
| 11:16.03 | jaem | nods |
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| 11:20.47 | Lorthirk | woah, n900 available on italian nokia shop |
| 11:21.07 | jaem | O_o why does ankiqt have >= deps on two different versions of libqt4-core, as well as = deps on one of them? ...I guess that's why it's in -devel |
| 11:21.33 | jaem | I'm glad the maemo.org team decided to split it into -devel and -testing |
| 11:21.51 | hrw | Lorthirk: n900 is available in all nokia webshops. except DDP one |
| 11:22.26 | Lorthirk | it was only on preorder until yesterday (always talking about italian...) |
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| 11:26.49 | kirma | hrw: after lots of digging, I conclude that highest tv resolution N900 might be able to output is 944*576 or so (wide-screen square pixel PAL) |
| 11:27.16 | DocScrutinizer | did Nokia care to add a decent voice-control to N900? as Maemo5 has some blobs anyway, I guess Nokia could port the voice control from e.g. N97 as well |
| 11:27.29 | *** join/#maemo pupnik_ (n=pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) |
| 11:27.42 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: There is no voice control currently, AFAIK |
| 11:28.17 | DocScrutinizer | :-S |
| 11:28.28 | *** part/#maemo feri (n=feri@nemein.suvilahti.nemein.net) |
| 11:28.32 | DocScrutinizer | thanks for the info anyway, Jaffa |
| 11:28.43 | kirma | err, not quite so. 848x576... mmaybe. |
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| 11:29.05 | *** part/#maemo bigbrovar (n=bigbrova@83.229.6.19) |
| 11:29.18 | hrw | kirma: thx |
| 11:29.58 | kirma | but achieving that is another thing, although that part of the video hardware is openly documented |
| 11:30.42 | kirma | I assume that 59 MHz clock is available on the chip... just hoping I didn't misinterpret the documentation. |
| 11:31.02 | jaem | kirma, where are you getting the docs from? |
| 11:31.16 | DocScrutinizer | :-) my question |
| 11:31.38 | kirma | in this specific case, I'm browsing through http://www-s.ti.com/sc/techlit/sprufa4 |
| 11:31.53 | kirma | just generic OMAP35x documentation |
| 11:31.59 | jaem | ah, okay |
| 11:32.10 | jaem | is there an overview of the N900 hardware anywhere? |
| 11:34.08 | kirma | service manual has some higher-level information on internal components and service schematics would have specifics, but neither are really public documentation, although widespread once phone is on market |
| 11:34.12 | tbf | jaem: http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/ is not sufficient? |
| 11:34.42 | jaem | tbf, I meant components, not general specs |
| 11:34.50 | jaem | kirma, figured as much ;) |
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| 11:35.22 | DocScrutinizer | thnx :-) |
| 11:35.43 | kirma | I believe there will be crack-open kind of stuff in relatively short time around the web |
| 11:35.59 | fragment | kirma: are you looking for some specific information or just everything generally? |
| 11:36.32 | jaem | konttori, what is the "transitioncontrol" package for? |
| 11:36.43 | jaem | your pkg description isn't exactly enlightening :P |
| 11:36.43 | Stskeeps | disabling transitions in UI |
| 11:36.50 | Stskeeps | in hildon desktop specifically |
| 11:36.51 | jaem | ah |
| 11:36.56 | konttori | jaem: you can tune the transitions on the device with it |
| 11:37.04 | Stskeeps | ah, yes, tune |
| 11:37.05 | jaem | tune == on/off, or "tune"? |
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| 11:37.35 | konttori | so, you can tune them to be longer, shorter, you have lot's of granularity |
| 11:37.35 | jaem | I was actually surprised at how much eyecandy they packed into the N900 while still making it quite usable |
| 11:37.36 | kirma | fragment: I'm in general curious about things |
| 11:37.38 | jaem | ooh |
| 11:37.41 | jaem | installs it |
| 11:37.50 | jaem | konttori, is that in config in /etc somewheres? |
| 11:38.04 | konttori | it's piss ass badly packaged (transitioncontrol) |
| 11:38.12 | jaem | heh |
| 11:38.37 | konttori | its /usr/share/hidon-desktop/transitions.ini |
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| 11:38.49 | jaem | nods |
| 11:38.52 | jaem | thanks! |
| 11:39.49 | jaem | why is usbcontrol in the fremantle repos? I thought USB host was out entirely... or is it just disabled in software? |
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| 11:40.40 | konttori | well, it doesn't work |
| 11:40.44 | konttori | just happens to be there |
| 11:40.51 | jaem | ah |
| 11:40.59 | konttori | you can force usb to host mode though |
| 11:41.05 | jaem | really? |
| 11:41.09 | jaem | hrmm |
| 11:41.10 | konttori | but not on a running device |
| 11:41.12 | jaem | ah |
| 11:41.16 | jaem | link? |
| 11:41.19 | konttori | yeah. some flasher flag or something like that |
| 11:41.21 | jaem | and how much of a hack is it? |
| 11:41.23 | konttori | no idea on details |
| 11:41.24 | jaem | oh, that |
| 11:41.28 | konttori | just know that it's possible |
| 11:41.49 | jaem | I'm guessing that it theoretically could be made to work without a reboot, then? |
| 11:41.51 | Stskeeps | konttori: thought that was removed.. the question is if device is capable of host or not.. otg is less relevant :P |
| 11:42.02 | jaem | Stskeeps, that's what I was wondering |
| 11:42.11 | Stskeeps | i guess people will find out eventually |
| 11:42.14 | konttori | you can still hack it to host mode afaik |
| 11:42.17 | jaem | I never actually heard the whole story about that, mainly because of all the noise on the forums |
| 11:42.23 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 11:42.35 | Stskeeps | they said USB OTG not working, which is obviously not practical, but if host pins still work, is something else |
| 11:42.36 | jaem | hopefully we can... I quite liked being able to just plug a flash key into it |
| 11:42.40 | jaem | and a keyboard would be nice |
| 11:42.44 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 11:42.45 | jaem | Stskeeps, hmm |
| 11:42.48 | Stskeeps | and then there's the whole charging issue |
| 11:42.58 | konttori | bt keyboard is much better. |
| 11:43.08 | konttori | and microsd is much better than usb key |
| 11:43.15 | jaem | what is the difference between OTG, and providing host/device modes separately? |
| 11:43.19 | konttori | port won't anyway have enough juice for proper usb keys |
| 11:43.25 | jaem | aside from the detection part |
| 11:43.33 | konttori | otg is able to switch on the fly. that's it |
| 11:43.39 | RST38h | Apple BT Keyboard still does not work though =( |
| 11:43.49 | RST38h | sheds a tear at the cold aluminium |
| 11:43.51 | jaem | konttori, on the fly, as in while running, or automatically? |
| 11:43.57 | konttori | how come? someone needs to hack pple bt in! |
| 11:44.03 | konttori | automatically |
| 11:44.18 | jaem | konttori, the N810 will power an OCZ Rally2 flash drive, which IMO is one of the best out there, and probably not easy on power |
| 11:44.28 | jaem | it won't power my Sandisk SD reader, though |
| 11:44.28 | RST38h | konttori: Something is wrong with it :( The bt kbd connection method described at the summit does not work |
| 11:44.33 | jaem | annoyingly enough |
| 11:44.40 | konttori | for read it can probably power it, but not for writing |
| 11:44.41 | RST38h | It is recognized, but does not work |
| 11:44.51 | jaem | konttori, the flash key works fine for oth |
| 11:45.01 | jaem | but it won't even power up the card reader |
| 11:45.09 | jaem | I use the flash key all the time, actually |
| 11:45.20 | *** join/#maemo aloril (n=aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 11:45.25 | RST38h | jaem: Seriously though, with 64MB top internal capacity in N900, why do you need a flash key? |
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| 11:46.31 | jaem | RST38h, fair point, and I always have a Nokia USB cable strapped onto my gadget holster (-grin-) anyway, but I do sometimes need to pull a file from a flash key I got from someone else |
| 11:47.02 | RST38h | jaem: I am lazy and thuse use SCP =) |
| 11:47.10 | RST38h | Except for stuff like video of course |
| 11:47.13 | gouverneur | Shapeshifter: where are you from_ |
| 11:47.19 | jaem | one reason (although not currently, for me) is that one might potentially want to format most of the device as something other than vfat, in which case Windows computers can't read it |
| 11:47.21 | gouverneur | s/_/? |
| 11:47.29 | *** join/#maemo goshawk (n=quassel@93-34-59-223.ip48.fastwebnet.it) |
| 11:47.38 | gouverneur | jaem: thats not true! |
| 11:47.57 | jaem | RST38h, that works for a lot of those cases - scp has replaced flash keys for me for the most part, but it doesn't always work |
| 11:48.08 | jaem | for one thing, my uni has blocked ssh in some of the labs |
| 11:48.12 | *** join/#maemo Synergy6 (n=Synerg@188-220-219-150.zone11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 11:48.20 | jaem | apparently people were torrenting, tunnelled over their file server |
| 11:48.22 | gouverneur | jaem: tunnel over http |
| 11:48.26 | jaem | my uni has a fast pipe |
| 11:48.33 | jaem | gouverneur, yeah, there are ways around it |
| 11:48.41 | jaem | plus they didn't block it on all the computers |
| 11:48.50 | jaem | no idea why - probably they didn't think it through |
| 11:49.13 | jaem | gouverneur, and as for fs's, I meant EXT3 and friends |
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| 11:49.25 | gouverneur | to block ssh internal universities should be punished by some dwarf axe fighter |
| 11:49.32 | jaem | and yes, I know there are drivers for Windows, but the local print shop, etc. isn't going to have that installed |
| 11:49.39 | gouverneur | jaem: me to |
| 11:49.46 | jaem | gouverneur, I fully agree, although they haven't blocked it in Residence |
| 11:49.49 | jaem | ...yet |
| 11:50.16 | jaem | there was some talk about blocking everything but ports 80 and 443, rather than actually *fixing* the horrible network issues |
| 11:50.22 | jaem | of course, you know that means |
| 11:50.25 | jaem | ...VPN! |
| 11:50.37 | gouverneur | I just setup some new ntfs partitions to safe the games on because I had a strange feeling with speed and so while gaming from ext3 |
| 11:51.13 | *** join/#maemo sgbirch (n=sgbirch@212.159.52.225) |
| 11:51.18 | jaem | gouverneur, if you want to know how much our Residence network fails, check out the posts at http://creativemisconfiguration.com/ |
| 11:51.20 | *** part/#maemo matmo (n=chatzill@doconnel.force9.co.uk) |
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| 11:52.09 | gouverneur | uuuh |
| 11:52.13 | RST38h | Is that the name of your residential network? =) |
| 11:52.35 | jaem | RST38h, what? |
| 11:52.42 | jaem | it's the university residence |
| 11:52.46 | RST38h | Creative Misconfiguration ? |
| 11:52.51 | jaem | provided by a third party, under contratr |
| 11:52.54 | jaem | manditory |
| 11:52.56 | jaem | and full of fail |
| 11:52.57 | jaem | no |
| 11:53.07 | jaem | it's a domain my friend and I grabbed because it was made of Win |
| 11:53.20 | RST38h | wonders why a university would hire outside help for IT maintenance |
| 11:53.28 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 11:53.30 | jaem | RST38h, it's not run through the university |
| 11:53.41 | jaem | they don't want anything to do with Residence internet |
| 11:53.54 | RST38h | University has not got enough of its own CS/IT students to manage it? |
| 11:53.55 | jaem | the campus network is pretty well maintained |
| 11:54.02 | jaem | oh yeah, they do |
| 11:54.08 | jaem | we tried to pitch that to them a few years ago |
| 11:54.11 | jaem | but they didn't go for it |
| 11:54.15 | RST38h | Why waste money on outside fail then? |
| 11:54.28 | jaem | the company's low on money, and Rez is just stingy |
| 11:54.36 | jaem | so nobody fixes anything |
| 11:54.42 | jaem | granted, it's better than it used to be |
| 11:54.46 | RST38h | Using students would still cost less |
| 11:55.06 | jaem | first year, we payed $30/month for what was supposed to be 1.5Mbps downstream (actually more like dial-up at peak times) |
| 11:55.06 | RST38h | Students is as cheap as you can possibly go, short of managing whole network from China |
| 11:55.18 | jaem | and it usually went out for about a week or so every time exams came up |
| 11:55.32 | RST38h | Can't you create your own network though? |
| 11:55.46 | jaem | they also did things like putting their logs on the same partition as the DHCP leases... and guess what happened... :/ |
| 11:55.46 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (n=infidel2@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 11:56.05 | *** join/#maemo feri (n=feri@nemein.suvilahti.nemein.net) |
| 11:56.16 | jaem | RST38h, we thought about setting up a rogue mesh :D but it would take far too much hardware, and most of the students are too apathetic to make it work |
| 11:56.22 | jaem | aside from that, not much we can do |
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| 11:57.38 | javispedro | hiyo |
| 11:57.47 | jaem | javispedro, hiya |
| 11:58.00 | feri | ping _marcell_ |
| 11:58.31 | RST38h | jaem: You can use existing wires, just disconnect their uplink =)\ |
| 11:58.52 | jaem | RST38h, No Comment ;) |
| 11:59.09 | jaem | the sad thing is that they probably have set things up that poorly |
| 11:59.11 | jaem | or almost |
| 11:59.17 | zaheerm | got iplayer stuff all parsed now in python |
| 11:59.56 | javispedro | searches for today's dealbreaker.... will it be "can I install harmattan on it?" |
| 12:00.32 | jaem | javispedro, "will harmattan+1 work on my Zune and sync with iTunes??!!1?" |
| 12:01.02 | jaem | :P |
| 12:01.02 | javispedro | well, place your bets. |
| 12:01.05 | RST38h | jaem: of course it will, just apply drugs |
| 12:01.23 | jaem | bets 5 Internets on what javispedro said |
| 12:02.37 | lardman | can dbus start an app? |
| 12:02.47 | javispedro | yeah |
| 12:02.52 | RST38h | yes |
| 12:03.10 | javispedro | in fact dbus is the way most apps are launched when tapped on the menu |
| 12:03.24 | lardman | so I could issue a maemo.org.mbarcode.found_barcode message and any app that has registered itself as interested in that will be started and passed the message? |
| 12:04.14 | RST38h | Hmmm...AlmostTI is now the 2nd in terms of Maemo5 downloads |
| 12:04.19 | wjt | lardman: not exactly |
| 12:04.27 | lardman | am just thinking that I hate webscraping code, and that I should either spin out all the barcode uses to individual apps, or to plugins |
| 12:04.29 | javispedro | lardman: well if the app is down how can it register itself as interested ;) |
| 12:04.35 | wjt | lardman: you can call a method on the service org.maemo.mbarcode, and if it's not running the bus daemon will started |
| 12:04.39 | wjt | s/started/start it/ |
| 12:04.39 | lardman | javispedro: exactly my question |
| 12:04.41 | jaem | RST38h, congrats! Just downloaded it |
| 12:04.51 | wjt | infobot: go to hell! |
| 12:04.51 | infobot | go to hell is, like, a song |
| 12:04.55 | lardman | hmm, not quite what I want then |
| 12:05.07 | wjt | but applications can't randomly register to be launched when a message is sent |
| 12:05.11 | javispedro | yeah, your question reminds of the palmos notification framework |
| 12:05.23 | javispedro | but afaik I don't think there's anything similar on maemo right now.. |
| 12:05.27 | jaem | awards RST38h two Internets |
| 12:05.38 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 12:06.03 | lardman | well I guess said apps could call maemo.org.notify_me and tell mbarcode their dbus call, then when mbarcode has something for them it can call them? |
| 12:06.15 | lardman | maemo.org.mbarcode.notify_me |
| 12:06.29 | javispedro | guess so. or even add themselves to a gconf entry |
| 12:06.31 | PaulFertser | lardman: that's called dbus activation i guess |
| 12:06.41 | PaulFertser | lardman: the way they're started |
| 12:06.47 | lardman | what would be the most usual/acceptible way to do this? |
| 12:06.53 | jaem | konttori, blech... you were right when you said that package was packaged poorly :P |
| 12:07.43 | *** join/#maemo BBNS_ (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 12:08.11 | javispedro | I think adding "interested" services to a gconf entry is not that bad |
| 12:08.32 | lardman | I imagine dbus calls is preferable to plugins, as then something like the calendar app could listen for vcal data from a barcode |
| 12:08.33 | lardman | etc |
| 12:08.51 | javispedro | guess so. |
| 12:09.08 | lardman | I'm open to suggestions here |
| 12:09.10 | lardman | :) |
| 12:10.29 | jaem | okay... what the heck |
| 12:10.33 | javispedro | i assume just opening the vcal with the default registered app is not enough? |
| 12:10.44 | jaem | why does the BT pairing dialog invert the functionality of the -> key? |
| 12:10.50 | lardman | I'm wondering if that will work |
| 12:10.52 | jaem | e.g. letters are 2nd fn |
| 12:11.11 | lardman | javispedro: but yes, that will work for e.g. vCal, vCard? and URLs |
| 12:11.55 | lardman | javispedro: but other apps might want to handle e.g. MMS: some of the Japanese message formats, or just random 1D EAN/UPC or random 2D datasets |
| 12:11.57 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 12:13.58 | jaem | grr... apparently Maemo doesn't allow BT pairing with no key, either |
| 12:14.03 | jaem | to the Bugzilla! |
| 12:18.40 | lardman | so how would one try to open a vCal entry programmatically? |
| 12:19.28 | lardman | some dbus call for the calendar app? |
| 12:19.45 | javispedro | presumably, the file manager opens vcal files? |
| 12:20.02 | lardman | yeah, I'll have to have a look at the source for that, assuming it's open |
| 12:20.16 | javispedro | i'm pretty sure it's a plain dbus call |
| 12:20.19 | javispedro | you can use dbus-monitor |
| 12:20.26 | javispedro | or call qwerty12, he knows |
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| 12:20.35 | *** join/#maemo Kusk (n=a@2904ds1-sdb.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 12:20.45 | lardman | I was wondering if rather than a specific call, there was a call one can make to the handler |
| 12:20.52 | lardman | or perhaps that's what it does |
| 12:20.56 | lardman | I'll have to check and see |
| 12:21.07 | VDVsx | jaem, it's because of the dialog context, normally the BT pin codes are numbers |
| 12:21.26 | jaem | VDVsx, I figured that out, but it's not immediately obvious |
| 12:21.46 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 12:22.03 | VDVsx | jaem, true, in maemo4 there's a little bar that indicates that |
| 12:22.52 | jaem | VDVsx, mmhmm |
| 12:23.32 | lardman | libhildonmime |
| 12:24.30 | VDVsx | jaem, and the 'no pin' option is related to upstream bluez, afaik, no directly Maemo fault |
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| 12:25.03 | jaem | VDVsx, I don't believe so... I know I've paired the wiimote with my old laptop (a year ago), and with my N810 |
| 12:25.10 | jaem | and it won't pair with the N900 |
| 12:25.21 | konttori | jaem: yeah, I was! and I know it oh so well, but I'm still to lazy to fix it :( |
| 12:25.23 | jaem | can you confirm that? |
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| 12:25.39 | VDVsx | jaem, that change in bluez4 |
| 12:25.43 | VDVsx | *changed |
| 12:25.54 | jaem | konttori, well, at least remove the .DS_store from /usr/share/applications - it conflicts with another poorly packaged app |
| 12:25.55 | jaem | XD |
| 12:26.02 | jaem | VDVsx, changed for the worse? |
| 12:26.17 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@nat/ibm/x-jawzrphvpmvgfmdq) |
| 12:26.17 | konttori | jaem: that would be the work that I would need to do, and that's what I'm too lazy to do atm |
| 12:26.29 | konttori | might be a good target for the day though. |
| 12:26.54 | VDVsx | jaem, they've a 'good' explanation for that, can't remember now :P |
| 12:26.58 | lardman | ok, looks like the Mime stuff should be ok, and it's automatically updated from the .desktop files which is nice |
| 12:27.20 | jaem | VDVsx, is that like their explanation of why they have no API documentation for the 4.x series? ;) |
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| 12:28.20 | VDVsx | jaem, lol, search in docs folder |
| 12:28.46 | PaulFertser | jaem: they do have documentation in the sources. And they do accept patches that clarify it ;) |
| 12:28.51 | jaem | VDVsx, forgive me if I asked this already (I can't remember), but are we going to see the shiny version of BlueMaemo that wazd was posting about, any time soon? |
| 12:28.56 | jaem | PaulFertser, heh... fair enough |
| 12:29.19 | VDVsx | jaem, a incomplete version is on the builder |
| 12:29.29 | VDVsx | but the builder is stuck :( |
| 12:29.41 | PaulFertser | jaem: it's just mad confusing that bluez3-specific info is all over the internet and their wiki too. But almost all important docs are there in the docs directory in the source tarball and they're understandable enough. |
| 12:29.44 | jaem | VDVsx, kk... I've been waiting... it's so purty |
| 12:29.59 | jaem | PaulFertser, yeah, that had me going for a while... thanks a lot for the tip |
| 12:30.06 | VDVsx | jaem, I'm waiting for more art from wazd, the rest is done |
| 12:30.16 | jaem | I need to get Bluetooth working for a project in short order, and was dreading it |
| 12:30.27 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 12:30.44 | jaem | VDVsx, I figured I'd poke at your code to see how to do the pairing initiation and such :) |
| 12:31.05 | pupnik_ | nice |
| 12:31.09 | VDVsx | jaem, in maemo is just a d-bus call |
| 12:31.16 | jaem | VDVsx, awesome |
| 12:31.24 | jaem | that will simplify things |
| 12:31.26 | pupnik_ | can the zeemote be integrated? |
| 12:31.33 | jaem | do you have any experience with rfcomm device nodes? |
| 12:31.44 | jaem | specifically, the creation of them? |
| 12:31.51 | VDVsx | jaem, the api: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/bluez/ |
| 12:31.53 | jaem | I need to bang bits at a sensor board |
| 12:31.59 | jaem | also awesome |
| 12:32.03 | VDVsx | very poor indeed |
| 12:32.18 | VDVsx | jaem, I sec and I'll send you the pairing stuff |
| 12:32.25 | jaem | VDVsx, thanks! |
| 12:32.36 | *** join/#maemo cure` (n=cure@rzavelli.demon.nl) |
| 12:32.46 | VDVsx | jaem, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Connectivity_Components/Maemo_Connectivity#Bluetooth_DBUS_UI_dialogs |
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| 12:33.19 | VDVsx | use those d-bus calls one shows the list and the other one is a signal that sends the selected device |
| 12:33.28 | jaem | nice |
| 12:33.47 | jaem | I should just stay up until 4am on IRC every day |
| 12:33.51 | PaulFertser | jaem: there're some good (and bad) examples is the tests directory in python. |
| 12:34.04 | jaem | PaulFertser, yeah... most of the decent stuff on the net seems to be Python |
| 12:34.05 | PaulFertser | jaem: (talking about bluez calls) |
| 12:34.11 | VDVsx | jaem, works for maemo4 and 5 |
| 12:34.17 | jaem | we don't need to do much, to be honest |
| 12:34.41 | jaem | just pair, create an rfcomm device node, and hand it off to the serial communication code that someone else is writing |
| 12:34.46 | VDVsx | jaem, C stuff is a wat more complex |
| 12:34.54 | jaem | VDVsx, I gathered that |
| 12:34.58 | PaulFertser | jaem: read serial-api.txt for that |
| 12:35.01 | VDVsx | S/wat/way/ |
| 12:35.01 | jaem | but C is our only option for this |
| 12:35.05 | jaem | PaulFertser, sure |
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| 12:35.53 | VDVsx | jaem, here are a lot of simple C examples: http://www.btessentials.com/examples/examples.html |
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| 12:41.13 | jaem | VDVsx, S60 BT examples too? Perfect |
| 12:41.27 | jaem | we're planning a port, once we get the Maemo app working |
| 12:41.28 | jaem | yay |
| 12:42.01 | VDVsx | jaem, warning: pyS60 BT stuff is very very bad and very very broken :P |
| 12:42.11 | VDVsx | personal opinion of course ^ |
| 12:42.23 | jaem | VDVsx, fair enough, but it may be a starting point |
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| 12:42.29 | jaem | we won't be using Python, in any case |
| 12:42.38 | jaem | too fat for what we're doing |
| 12:42.40 | VDVsx | jaem, ah, so you're safe |
| 12:42.58 | jaem | *I'm* safe because I'm the Maemo guy - I won't be touching S60 :P |
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| 12:43.54 | jaem | RST38h, getting graphical glitches in ATI85 |
| 12:44.11 | jaem | when you try to click out of the "Needs ROM image" banner, it flickers like crazy |
| 12:44.15 | jaem | are you aware of that one? |
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| 12:47.18 | VDVsx | jaem, luck you, every time I look at S60 stuff, I lose year of my live :P |
| 12:47.32 | Stskeeps | oh, wow |
| 12:47.41 | Stskeeps | they open sources osso-applet-screencalibration |
| 12:47.50 | Stskeeps | d |
| 12:48.12 | jaem | Stskeeps, woo! |
| 12:48.19 | jaem | VDVsx, that's the impression I got |
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| 12:52.19 | *** join/#maemo jaem_n900 (n=jaem@69.90.54.251) |
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| 12:53.15 | jaem_n900 | just because I can ;) |
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| 12:53.49 | PaulFertser | jaem: does n900 has a more sane (read terminal junkie-friendly) keyboard layout by default? |
| 12:54.04 | jaem_n810 | VDVsx, PaulFertser, thanks a lot for your help! |
| 12:54.19 | jaem | PaulFertser, unfortunately, no |
| 12:54.24 | jaem | arguably worse |
| 12:54.39 | jaem | although that's largely because there are less keys available to remap |
| 12:54.54 | VDVsx | jaem, np :) |
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| 12:55.03 | PaulFertser | jaem: :((( nokia customer "care" at its best |
| 12:55.06 | jaem | however, the keyboard itself is so much better that typing it on it for most tasks is a reasonably pleasant experience |
| 12:55.41 | jaem | PaulFertser, I would have loved a 5-row keyboard, or at least another 4-row, but given that their main target market isn't the terminal-using type, I can't fault them too much |
| 12:55.45 | PaulFertser | jaem: before i actually tried n810 keyboard i thought it's better. But now i'm disappointed, the feedback is too strange. |
| 12:55.47 | jaem | and it *is* a really nice keyboard |
| 12:55.51 | _berto_ | I find it reasonably good for the shell |
| 12:55.54 | _berto_ | and I do a lot of ssh |
| 12:56.00 | jaem | wait, you like the N810 keyboard better?! |
| 12:56.14 | jaem | the N900 took a bit of getting used to, but now I can't stand my N810's |
| 12:56.15 | PaulFertser | jaem: i thought n810 keyboard is better than it actually is. |
| 12:56.22 | jaem | plus I can't touch-type on it anymore :P |
| 12:56.23 | jaem | ah |
| 12:56.32 | jaem | well, the N900's keyboard blows it out of the water |
| 12:56.34 | _berto_ | I think the n900 keyboard is more pleasant to use |
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| 12:57.09 | jaem | my only annoyance is that they put two switches under the space key, so while it doesn't *actually* double-press, it sometimes feels like it has, and throws off my touch-typing |
| 12:57.21 | jaem | also, a right-shift would have been nice |
| 12:57.25 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@84.49.132.202) |
| 12:57.28 | jaem | the arrow keys are great, thoguh |
| 12:57.56 | jaem | a D-Pad would have been nice, but the N900's arrow keys are a sight better than the N810's D-Pad, in general terms |
| 12:58.10 | jaem | so I'll take what I can get |
| 12:58.17 | PaulFertser | _berto_: on n810 i lack esc, tab, / is not convenient... Also no meta key (and esc is inconvenient)... |
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| 12:58.37 | jaem | that was actually my general impression of the N900 - lots of things that could have been done better/more to my liking, but still a fairly solid device, and a huge step in the right direction |
| 12:58.44 | _berto_ | PaulFertser: it's obviously not perfect for the shell, but it's reasonably good |
| 12:58.44 | jaem | PaulFertser, give me a moment - link |
| 12:58.54 | _berto_ | I wouldn't expect a thinkpad keyboard on a pocket device :p |
| 12:59.09 | tigert | its pretty sweet compromise |
| 12:59.11 | jaem | PaulFertser, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?s=d629f515ca9252db8a95e56d06a6f43b&p=314242&postcount=4 |
| 12:59.22 | jaem | I use that layout on my N810, and it's much better |
| 12:59.37 | jaem | keep in mind that the "back" key is mapped to Esc |
| 12:59.46 | _berto_ | ah yes |
| 12:59.53 | PaulFertser | jaem: lack of usb host is something that i found unacceptable. Also the price. It's so fucking much more than ~$200 you can buy a freerunner for, and freerunner is on the order of magnitude more free. |
| 12:59.59 | _berto_ | in the n900 it's a bit more annoying, but still ... |
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| 13:00.28 | jaem | PaulFertser, yeah, and I take your point, but IIRC the Freerunning is nowhere close in terms of hardware specs |
| 13:00.36 | jaem | the N900 is a beautiful device |
| 13:00.42 | jaem | that said, I can't afford one either |
| 13:00.50 | jaem | I just have mine on extended loan from my prof :P |
| 13:00.51 | jaem | lucky me |
| 13:01.15 | pupnik_ | nice |
| 13:01.19 | jaem | while ~$600 is a lot of money, it's also not out of the way for phones of that calibre |
| 13:01.24 | PaulFertser | jaem: indeed. But FR has usb host. And you can connect spi chips or whatever to it. Hackability is superior. Anyway, have a nice day, gtg :) good luck. |
| 13:01.24 | jaem | and this one is better than most |
| 13:01.32 | jaem | PaulFertser, true |
| 13:01.33 | jaem | cheers |
| 13:01.37 | pupnik_ | is top of the line pocket computer for 600 |
| 13:01.40 | _berto_ | well, I have a freerunner |
| 13:01.42 | jaem | pupnik_, yeah, I'm pretty happy :) |
| 13:01.43 | pupnik_ | not too much! |
| 13:01.52 | _berto_ | and it's apples and oranges |
| 13:02.01 | pupnik_ | mhm |
| 13:02.02 | jaem | _berto_, that's the thing |
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| 13:02.24 | jaem | part of me says "that's not a bad price", and the other part says "I could buy a decent desktop for half again as much" |
| 13:02.35 | jaem | but you can't really compare them |
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| 13:02.45 | pupnik_ | right, desktop is 9ps |
| 13:02.47 | pupnik_ | 90s |
| 13:02.56 | _berto_ | with the n900 i don't even feel like switching on my laptop when I get home |
| 13:02.58 | jaem | pupnik_, ? |
| 13:03.02 | pupnik_ | space bending power in hand is 00s |
| 13:03.11 | jaem | yeah, true |
| 13:03.17 | jaem | I just meant in terms of raw power |
| 13:03.25 | jaem | but no, the N900 is sweet |
| 13:03.41 | jaem | I love being able to use it just like a laptop |
| 13:03.48 | pupnik_ | yup |
| 13:03.57 | jaem | the N810 was nice, but deficient in some ways |
| 13:04.07 | jaem | kind of like using a P III for web use |
| 13:04.08 | pupnik_ | i notice youtube is comparatively fast vs other flash video sites... |
| 13:04.12 | jaem | doable, but not fun |
| 13:04.22 | jaem | and not always usable for everything |
| 13:04.34 | jaem | the N900 is much more like I'd hoped when I first bought the N810 |
| 13:04.48 | jaem | pupnik_, yeah, but the player buttons aren't as responsive as I'd like |
| 13:05.05 | *** join/#maemo anselmolsm (n=anselmol@200.184.118.130) |
| 13:05.06 | jaem | also, microB/Maemo Browser has some rough edges |
| 13:05.14 | jaem | case in point, the Addons dialog |
| 13:05.35 | pupnik_ | maybe we can somehow end bloated websites with the new gen portables |
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| 13:05.52 | jaem | oops |
| 13:05.59 | jaem | left the milk out downstairs :O |
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| 13:06.16 | jaem | too bad I'll have to leave the compu--- ...oh wait :P |
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| 13:06.26 | pupnik_ | id like those different unneeded blocks, tags, regions |
| 13:06.39 | pupnik_ | to be inactive memort and cpuwise |
| 13:06.43 | pupnik_ | heh jaem |
| 13:06.50 | jaem_n810 | ping |
| 13:06.55 | jaem_n900 | ping |
| 13:07.12 | jaem_n900 | -grin- |
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| 13:09.14 | tigert | real men use screen and irssi to avoid duplicate irc presence ;) |
| 13:09.29 | jaem_n900 | tigert, yeah I know |
| 13:09.36 | jaem_n900 | I keep meaning to learn irssi |
| 13:09.49 | jaem_n900 | but it's a bit awkward on the N90's kbd |
| 13:10.04 | tigert | the terminal on n900 + openssh is one killer app for lots of things |
| 13:10.09 | jaem_n900 | indeed |
| 13:10.23 | jaem_n900 | but all the shortcuts in irssi get a bit painfil |
| 13:10.32 | jaem_n900 | I presume you can remap them? |
| 13:10.56 | Jaffa | tigert: Is there a magic way of getting irssi to do nick highlighting wherever your nick appears in text, rather than just '^jaffa: '? |
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| 13:13.13 | Nitial | simply /hilight jaffa |
| 13:13.26 | Nitial | you need options to make it match only the nick ;) |
| 13:13.42 | Jaffa | Nitial: And is that persistent? (Not that I restart it often, but...) |
| 13:13.44 | tigert | "^jaffa:" does look like a regexp ;) |
| 13:13.54 | tigert | which matches beginning of line + your nick + colon |
| 13:14.04 | Jaffa | tigert: Yes, because that's the behaviour I see OOtB |
| 13:14.09 | tigert | yeah |
| 13:14.16 | Nitial | save your config |
| 13:14.24 | *** join/#maemo cure` (n=cure@rzavelli.demon.nl) |
| 13:14.37 | Jaffa | '/save' seemed to do that. |
| 13:14.38 | Jaffa | ta |
| 13:14.46 | tigert | yea default hilight is ^$nick: I guess |
| 13:15.03 | tigert | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:15.16 | tigert | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:16.07 | lardman | hmm, when did javispedro vanish? |
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| 13:25.31 | AndrewFBlack | Is it just me or is there no way to rename a fil on Maemo5 using file manager? |
| 13:26.46 | jaem_n900 | andr |
| 13:26.59 | jaem_n810 | AndrewFBlack, click and hold |
| 13:27.02 | Jaffa | AndrewFBlack: Tap & hold? There's a menu, but I dunno if it includes "Rename" |
| 13:27.06 | kalikiana | AndrewFBlack, in the context menu |
| 13:27.07 | jaem_n810 | yep |
| 13:27.53 | AndrewFBlack | ok didn't know about that menu I been using regular memu for move and delete so far |
| 13:28.07 | AndrewFBlack | I knew they hadn't removed rename file lol |
| 13:28.56 | pupnik_ | where do i see n900 cpu speed |
| 13:29.12 | kirma | "see" ? |
| 13:29.19 | pupnik_ | read |
| 13:29.21 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 13:29.22 | pupnik_ | numbers |
| 13:29.26 | range | Can't you feel it? :) |
| 13:29.28 | kalikiana | throw it across the room and see how fast it goes :) |
| 13:29.37 | kirma | powertop on console maybe |
| 13:29.53 | range | Probably somewhere in /sys/ as I don't think that you'll have /proc/acpi on that system. |
| 13:30.10 | bleader | no /proc/cpuinfo ? |
| 13:30.42 | bleader | (Haven't a maemo device yet, sorry if this is obviously wrong to everybody :p) |
| 13:30.50 | range | /sys/devices/system/cpu maybe. |
| 13:31.38 | kalikiana | /proc/cpuinfo is there |
| 13:32.06 | pupnik_ | bogomips is 1:1 mhz? |
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| 13:32.21 | bleader | pupnik_: tends to be 2:1MHz on non x86 arch |
| 13:32.25 | bleader | from what I've seen |
| 13:32.48 | pupnik_ | reporting 249.96 bogomips atm |
| 13:33.13 | range | pupnik_: No, bogomips is bogo. |
| 13:33.16 | pupnik_ | opÃen shell, 4 progs in bg |
| 13:33.33 | bleader | cat /dev/zero > /dev/null |
| 13:33.41 | range | You can really (no not even then) only compare same CPUs against each other with that. |
| 13:33.50 | range | And I don't think the bogomips value gets updated. |
| 13:34.05 | bleader | true |
| 13:34.17 | range | cpu MHz might if in cpuinfo :) |
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| 13:37.25 | pupnik_ | i looked through all of /proc |
| 13:37.44 | pupnik_ | i mean sys |
| 13:37.50 | pupnik_ | tryin proc now |
| 13:38.29 | RST38h | moo pupnik |
| 13:38.36 | pupnik_ | hi |
| 13:38.58 | pupnik_ | nm |
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| 13:41.05 | javispedro | Ovi Store's policy is today's dealbreaker. With nearly 10 pages worth of posts today, definitely. |
| 13:41.58 | jaem | javispedro, aw... I lost |
| 13:42.07 | jaem | gives javispedro the 5 Internets he bet |
| 13:42.28 | jaem | I actually have a textbook with the word "Internets" in its title |
| 13:42.38 | jaem | although it's using the word correctly, and not as a Bushism |
| 13:42.42 | jaem | heh |
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| 13:43.52 | jaem | well, goodnight folks |
| 13:43.56 | jaem | or... well... morning, now |
| 13:43.57 | jaem | >_< |
| 13:44.28 | javispedro | good night in irc local time |
| 13:44.34 | jaem | UGT? :P |
| 13:44.46 | javispedro | that. |
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| 13:46.15 | Anpr | heya, any news about n900 in uk ? |
| 13:46.40 | bleader | play.com still list it for 30th |
| 13:47.06 | Anpr | heh |
| 13:47.44 | Anpr | i hear some rumour that it will be in flagship shop in london today |
| 13:47.47 | Anpr | heard |
| 13:48.04 | bleader | yeah I read this too somewhere |
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| 13:49.22 | Lorthirk | great, my n900 is on its way :D |
| 13:49.33 | bleader | it's shown as ready to be sent on french nokia website, haven't check the uk one lately |
| 13:49.37 | Anpr | Lorthirk are u from uk ? :) |
| 13:49.46 | Lorthirk | no Anpr, sorry... i'm from italy |
| 13:49.52 | Anpr | :) |
| 13:50.08 | Anpr | anyway it's cool, because something's going |
| 13:50.26 | Lorthirk | of course |
| 13:50.30 | SpeedEvil | wonders why italy gets it before UK. |
| 13:50.44 | Anpr | wonders as well |
| 13:50.48 | Lorthirk | i read across some italian forums, people has its credit cards billed |
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| 13:51.03 | SpeedEvil | nokia.co.uk store says 'week beginning 32nd november. |
| 13:51.03 | Lorthirk | wonders too, since usually Italy lags behind any others |
| 13:51.04 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 13:51.06 | SpeedEvil | 23rd |
| 13:51.12 | bleader | Lorthirk: was it a pre-order ? |
| 13:51.18 | Lorthirk | no bleader |
| 13:51.19 | Anpr | so brithish people do, believe me :D |
| 13:51.35 | Lorthirk | ordered it today |
| 13:51.48 | bleader | on nokia's website ? |
| 13:52.02 | pupnik_ | openarena is great, suggest auto-aim in y-axis only!! |
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| 13:52.15 | Lorthirk | yep |
| 13:52.15 | pupnik_ | also allow player to quit game! |
| 13:52.21 | Lorthirk | with a gorgeous 20% off |
| 13:52.48 | pupnik_ | no tax? |
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| 13:53.11 | bleader | Lorthirk: what's the original price in italy ? |
| 13:53.13 | Lorthirk | no, i had a coupon code |
| 13:53.28 | Lorthirk | 599 but everyone's ordering it with a coupon code |
| 13:53.34 | lardman|home | where's the dbus maestro qwerty? |
| 13:53.40 | Lorthirk | so i got it for 494 express shipping included |
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| 13:54.20 | bleader | Lorthirk: ok, thanks, it's 50 more in france... and I don't have a coupon, so I have to pay 649 euros if I want to order it now... |
| 13:54.23 | Lorthirk | honestly i think it's a f'n great deal :D |
| 13:54.39 | Lorthirk | different prices among europe? |
| 13:54.42 | Lorthirk | that's weird :\ |
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| 13:54.44 | bleader | nop, only france |
| 13:54.49 | bleader | taxes and so on |
| 13:54.52 | Lorthirk | that's even more weird |
| 13:54.52 | bleader | yeah france ! |
| 13:54.53 | javispedro | RST38h: did you order the DDP one after all? |
| 13:54.54 | Lorthirk | oh, ok |
| 13:55.09 | Lorthirk | my iphone is starting to cry |
| 13:55.17 | Lorthirk | he knows he'll be replaced soon! |
| 13:55.18 | RST38h | javis: I did, a few weeks ago |
| 13:55.19 | bleader | That's why I lurking on play.com :) (and I would rather get a qwerty keyboard) |
| 13:55.21 | Lorthirk | mwahahahah |
| 13:55.32 | RST38h | javis: They took money from my bank account, then apparently put it back |
| 13:55.41 | RST38h | javis: $370 it was, I think |
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| 13:55.52 | javispedro | RST38h: and that's why I am considering ordering it now :D |
| 13:56.08 | RST38h | javis: You may end up buying two this way ;))) |
| 13:56.27 | RST38h | javis: I would just keep watching the tmo thread for now |
| 13:56.28 | javispedro | RST38h: no, no, ordering it throught the ddp |
| 13:56.37 | javispedro | I've not done it yet. |
| 13:56.47 | RST38h | javis: Oh you have not ordered it through DDP yet? I guess it will not be bad to order |
| 13:56.55 | lardman|home | javispedro: sorry I missed your pm |
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| 13:57.23 | javispedro | lardman: np, don't worry. |
| 13:57.36 | javispedro | goes to FN |
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| 13:57.57 | Anpr | now i wonder how do u get this coupon, Lorthirk ? |
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| 14:13.34 | lardman|home | anyone got a link to how to open an URL using C dbus calls for Diablo? |
| 14:16.00 | Lorthirk | Anprrr i read it on a forum, it seems it's a sort of "if you order something in november, your next order has 20% off" |
| 14:17.04 | RST38h | lardman: You want the Tear thread on tmo, it is there |
| 14:17.18 | VDVsx | wazd, ping |
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| 14:18.54 | Stskeeps | not bad at 480$ n900 on amazon |
| 14:20.02 | RST38h | it is quickly getting into the same range as discount |
| 14:20.09 | RST38h | (DDP discount I mean) |
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| 14:20.59 | javispedro | yeah, and they have warranty. |
| 14:22.09 | SpeedEvil | I'm not sure selling without warranty is actually legal in much of the EU |
| 14:22.11 | gouverneur | Stskeeps: over here it doesnt get lower than $735.56 yet |
| 14:22.24 | lardman|home | RST38h: thanks will take a look |
| 14:22.44 | gouverneur | what was discount for US? |
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| 14:24.49 | hrw | SpeedEvil: DDP ones have warranty. but for one week |
| 14:25.06 | Khertan | hrw: lol |
| 14:25.28 | hrw | anyway they look like vaporware |
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| 14:25.59 | Khertan | i'm not sure that they can do that in Europe ... as waranty must be more than 1 year for any product ... and with rebates too |
| 14:26.06 | SpeedEvil | hrw: yes - that's not actually legal |
| 14:26.08 | javispedro | yeah, you have a point. |
| 14:26.14 | SpeedEvil | (AIUI) |
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| 14:26.30 | SpeedEvil | Even the cooling off period for distance transactions in the UK is longer than that. |
| 14:26.35 | javispedro | IANAL ;) |
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| 14:29.36 | Stskeeps | i'd say DDP may be under another type of contract than typical retail though |
| 14:29.53 | viq | DDP ? |
| 14:30.56 | javispedro | retail is retail -- im an individual. |
| 14:31.14 | Stskeeps | javispedro: i think some screwup may happen from the fact they're trying out b2b stuff for individuals.. |
| 14:31.17 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 14:31.26 | Stskeeps | the whole not charging VAT is weird too :P |
| 14:31.30 | javispedro | that's already happening. |
| 14:31.31 | javispedro | yes. |
| 14:31.41 | Stskeeps | i mean, it makes sense b2b. |
| 14:31.47 | Stskeeps | but to individuals it doesn't |
| 14:31.48 | qwerty12 | Stskeeps: Shh! They were trying to keep that quiet... |
| 14:31.55 | Stskeeps | mm |
| 14:31.55 | Stskeeps | :P |
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| 14:33.37 | lardman|home | RST38h: should I be looking further than the Tear-specific dbus call? |
| 14:34.03 | lardman|home | I hope so |
| 14:34.18 | javispedro | lardman: you have to do it through dbus? there's another method. |
| 14:34.28 | qwerty12 | lardman|home: If it's a file: hildon-mime |
| 14:34.44 | lardman|home | no, I have an URL |
| 14:34.51 | lardman|home | yeah there's the osso stuff isn't there |
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| 14:35.17 | javispedro | hildon_uri_open and the like |
| 14:35.56 | lardman|home | that works on Diablo? |
| 14:36.02 | javispedro | yeah |
| 14:36.10 | lardman|home | any docs for that? |
| 14:36.24 | javispedro | I'd guess so. |
| 14:36.26 | javispedro | https://git.maemo.org/projects/drnoksnes/?p=drnoksnes;a=blob_plain;f=gui/about.c;hb=HEAD |
| 14:36.36 | javispedro | check the cb_url_response function. |
| 14:37.01 | javispedro | must have copied that from somewhere since there's a unused gerror there. |
| 14:37.19 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 14:37.20 | lardman|home | the wonders of the underdocuemented hildon-mime lib |
| 14:38.40 | lardman|home | qwerty12: what do you know about opening using MIME when the data is in memory? |
| 14:38.56 | qwerty12 | I don't? |
| 14:39.25 | lardman|home | oh, shame |
| 14:39.36 | *** join/#maemo fab (n=bellet@bellet.info) |
| 14:39.48 | lardman|home | e.g. I'd like to get the default handler to handle my vCard or iCal data |
| 14:39.49 | lardman|home | etc |
| 14:40.50 | qwerty12 | hildon_mime_open_file() works when you give it a path to a file... |
| 14:41.17 | javispedro | I guess you'll have to write to /tmp |
| 14:41.22 | javispedro | like Modest, doesn't it? |
| 14:41.31 | gouverneur | viq: DDP = Developer Device Program |
| 14:41.36 | lardman|home | fair enough |
| 14:42.07 | viq | gouverneur: thank you |
| 14:42.28 | kalikiana | lardman|home, I think you can use GIO for that |
| 14:42.36 | lardman|home | GIO? |
| 14:42.54 | javispedro | GIO is fremantle only |
| 14:43.12 | qwerty12 | kalikiana: Oh, BTW, thank you. You have no idea how long I've wished for a dpkg hook that did gtk-update-icon-cache =) |
| 14:43.13 | gouverneur | german nokia.de announces special deals at the online showroom for Nov. 24th, maybe there is a N900 special available, they did it with the n97, a few days after release there was a special offer available |
| 14:43.16 | *** join/#maemo BBNS_ (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 14:43.21 | lardman|home | http://www.giostockings.com/ ? |
| 14:43.28 | lardman|home | first hit on Google... |
| 14:44.03 | lardman|home | more likely this I guess? ;) http://library.gnome.org/devel/gio/stable/ |
| 14:44.24 | javispedro | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIO_(GNOME) |
| 14:44.24 | kalikiana | lardman|home, I was more thinking of g_app_info_get_default_for_type |
| 14:44.58 | kalikiana | qwerty12, I only learned about that feature recently, but it's quite nice :) |
| 14:45.28 | kalikiana | lardman|home, yes, that's it |
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| 14:46.57 | lardman|home | hmm, so my uri could be a string containing the vcard info then? |
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| 14:47.33 | lardman|home | depends if vcard: is handled I guess |
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| 14:48.59 | kalikiana | lardman|home, no, you would just query the right application for it |
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| 14:49.13 | kalikiana | unless that application is able to use data:// uris |
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| 14:49.28 | lardman|home | kalikiana: hmm, so won't add anything over and above using the mime fns then? |
| 14:49.39 | lopz | hi ;/ |
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| 14:49.59 | kalikiana | well, hildon_mime doesn't have a way to tell you which application handles what |
| 14:50.05 | kalikiana | so it does add something |
| 14:50.10 | lardman|home | ah I see |
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| 14:50.24 | lardman|home | I don't care about the app though, I just want the data handled by whatever is the default |
| 14:50.37 | kalikiana | then write it to a file in /temp |
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| 14:51.13 | Venomrush | 3 USIM issue is now fixed it seems. |
| 14:51.21 | Venomrush | in v2.2009.47-20 |
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| 14:52.00 | hrw | Venomrush: and .47-20 will be available in 2010? |
| 14:52.16 | hrw | like it was with n810 bootloader fix when users had to wait months |
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| 14:53.08 | Venomrush | hrw, not sure mate |
| 14:53.26 | Venomrush | do you need any specific permission to gain access to testing firwmares? |
| 14:53.46 | Venomrush | i can't find this information anywhere |
| 14:53.50 | *** join/#maemo Andy80 (n=andy80@84.123.86.203.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 14:54.37 | Andy80 | hi all |
| 14:54.51 | hrw | Venomrush: no idea about permissions. but that does not matter for me yet |
| 14:55.15 | Andy80 | a friend of mine tried to register to maemo.org, he cannot receive the confirmation email so he cannot login and register for the Maemo Barcelona event... how can we solve this? |
| 14:55.21 | Venomrush | well rather than someone posting out the sim cards to test |
| 14:55.36 | Venomrush | wouldn't it be better to upload it somewhere private for testers |
| 14:55.43 | Venomrush | to confirm and verify the issue |
| 14:55.49 | pupnik_ | ahhh chopin |
| 14:56.05 | Venomrush | Andy80, register with different username + email is the quickiest way |
| 14:57.26 | VDVsx | Andy80, it usually takes some time (maemo.org registration) |
| 14:58.07 | VDVsx | or probably the confirmation email end up in the spam folder |
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| 14:58.45 | hrw | Andy80: and maemo.org is not so fast |
| 14:59.12 | Andy80 | already checked spam... |
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| 15:03.26 | RST38h | Venomrush: I think you should take your helpful idea directly to Quim Gil |
| 15:03.37 | RST38h | Surely, he will be delighted to hear about it |
| 15:03.59 | RST38h | cackles |
| 15:04.59 | Venomrush | what's the best way to contact him |
| 15:05.15 | RST38h | Why, by email of course |
| 15:05.51 | Venomrush | I don't have his email |
| 15:06.02 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@viktor.cosmicparrot.net) |
| 15:06.10 | RST38h | Should I teach you how to locate it? |
| 15:06.39 | Andy80 | Venomrush: I sent him a travelling pigeoun once, but the poor animal died because of too cold, before landing to Helsinki :\ |
| 15:06.41 | qwerty12 | sits down for Cyberstalking 101, by RST38h |
| 15:06.50 | Stskeeps | Venomrush: testing fws are normally under NDA and you need some degree of contractual relationship with nokia to get them |
| 15:07.17 | RST38h | Stskeeps: You are spoiling all the fun |
| 15:07.47 | Venomrush | Stskeeps, that destroys the point of open source OS |
| 15:07.56 | Stskeeps | Venomrush: meh, open source.. |
| 15:07.58 | RST38h | Venomrush: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=quim+gil+email |
| 15:07.59 | Stskeeps | Venomrush: it's a valid problematique though, why couldn't testing fw's technically be public |
| 15:08.09 | qwerty12 | RST38h: Your class sucks |
| 15:08.30 | RST38h | qwerty: But, incredibly, it finds the needed email =) |
| 15:08.35 | *** join/#maemo BBNS_ (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 15:08.39 | Stskeeps | (besides a pandoras box of gpl problems to provide source for every single one..) |
| 15:09.03 | Venomrush | it didn't.. |
| 15:09.08 | RST38h | really? |
| 15:09.22 | lardman | re |
| 15:09.48 | RST38h | Venomrush: The very first link is titled "Mailing List Archive: Maemo: quim.gil at nokia" |
| 15:10.32 | ccooke | ... Hmm. I wonder how badly Dwarf Fortress would run on the n900 :-) |
| 15:10.51 | ccooke | (Leaving aside the fact that it's clossed source and x86 only for now) |
| 15:11.05 | Venomrush | ah cool |
| 15:11.11 | Venomrush | thought it was a mailing list from him |
| 15:11.15 | *** join/#maemo ferulo (n=fherrera@95.16.120.217) |
| 15:11.22 | hrw | Venomrush: testing firmwares can for example brick totally device in a way which will require JTAG access. do you have 1.8V jtag at home and know where to connect it in n900? |
| 15:11.23 | RST38h | ccooke: Wait. Somebody finally made a decent 3D roguelike? |
| 15:11.32 | javispedro | 's been billed by ddp |
| 15:11.38 | ccooke | RST38h: you've not heard of Dwarf Fortress? |
| 15:11.42 | javispedro | ah sigh. |
| 15:11.43 | RST38h | Nope |
| 15:11.49 | RST38h | is dull, as you all know |
| 15:11.50 | suihkulokki | RST38h: it is called WoW |
| 15:12.04 | suihkulokki | oh, wait, that is 3D MUD |
| 15:12.06 | hrw | javispedro: billed as 'got cash grabbed from card not just reserved/blocked'? |
| 15:12.06 | RST38h | suihkulokki: WoW is some kind of drugs, afaik |
| 15:12.20 | Venomrush | i wuoldn't mind buying the toolkit if it was available |
| 15:12.21 | ccooke | RST38h: Go read the story of Boatmurdered (which is old, from before DF became 3d... but *funny*) |
| 15:12.27 | javispedro | hrw: just reserved afai see. |
| 15:12.53 | suihkulokki | wonders why there is seemingly so little free/OSS opengl es code around |
| 15:13.03 | hrw | javispedro: thats normal. mine is at that state since 10 Nov |
| 15:13.07 | kirma | nice. my N900 delivery is in exception state in rotterdam... |
| 15:13.15 | muep__ | there aren't many free opengl es implementations around |
| 15:13.21 | suihkulokki | 2.0 variant especially |
| 15:13.33 | ccooke | Dwarf Fortress is the most scarily complete simulation game I have ever heard of. It's under heavy and active development, uses text mode in opengl and isn't particularly easy to learn. It's also pretty hard, but *seriously* well made. |
| 15:13.50 | Stskeeps | suihkulokki: one problematique could be that it evolved from copyrighted example code.. or the fact not many people have encountered gles2 on 'sane' systems :P |
| 15:13.57 | hrw | ccooke: but also it is closed and x86 only |
| 15:14.03 | ccooke | hrw: yes. |
| 15:14.09 | RST38h | suihkulokki: Most desktop people use OpenGL |
| 15:14.24 | ccooke | hrw: however, I'm considering using it over the network with X :-) |
| 15:14.29 | javispedro | hrw: yeah, I was hoping they wouldn't do it seeing recent news. |
| 15:15.03 | javispedro | not much hw using oglesv2.0 on the wild. |
| 15:15.04 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 15:15.17 | hrw | ccooke: that does not change situation. I do not have x86 with good, fast opengl |
| 15:15.18 | javispedro | iphone 3gs --> nobody uses it since it breaks apple dream's of backwards compatibility |
| 15:15.39 | hrw | ccooke: and my x86-64 may lack opengl 32bit libs |
| 15:15.40 | javispedro | pandora --> not released |
| 15:16.01 | RST38h | javis: There is Symbian |
| 15:16.14 | javispedro | RST38h: does anybody code for symbian? ;) |
| 15:16.32 | adeus | only the mad ones |
| 15:16.35 | RST38h | Dwarf Fortress available for the Mac...hm |
| 15:16.40 | RST38h | laughs satanically |
| 15:16.57 | ccooke | hrw: ah, yes. http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/System_requirements |
| 15:17.04 | RST38h | javis: [politely] yea, some people do... |
| 15:19.24 | *** join/#maemo dabozz (n=benny@dslb-084-059-188-166.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:21.21 | suihkulokki | javispedro: ah, I thought iphone had gles2 already in the 3g model |
| 15:21.55 | javispedro | well, gles2 is a feature of the SoC not of the baseband. |
| 15:22.33 | suihkulokki | re pandora, did they port any cool game yet we should steal^Wshare from them to extras? |
| 15:22.57 | hrw | suihkulokki: quake1/2? or they are alreaady present? |
| 15:23.20 | javispedro | RST38h: guess you're right, basically symbian was one of the first platforms with v2 |
| 15:23.26 | RST38h | Actually, baseband chip is also a SoC |
| 15:23.37 | RST38h | Just a smaller and slower one |
| 15:23.39 | suihkulokki | hrw: Q3A |
| 15:25.05 | *** join/#maemo Venomrush (i=bcdd66f5@gateway/web/freenode/x-erheldalzpjqhdbq) |
| 15:25.46 | Venomrush | firefox just crashed on me |
| 15:25.52 | *** join/#maemo Baltha (n=Baltha@91.156.68.186) |
| 15:25.56 | Stskeeps | get a real irc client by now :P |
| 15:26.32 | *** join/#maemo eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-11-85.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 15:27.06 | Venomrush | hmm nah i prefer to use browser intergrated IRC :p |
| 15:27.12 | Venomrush | it seems Opera one is the best |
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| 15:34.58 | hrw | suihkulokki: in OpenEmbedded we have ioquake3, quake3-pandora-gles |
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| 15:50.43 | iDialekt | Hi |
| 15:51.53 | *** join/#maemo matt_c_ (n=mcroydon@24.124.4.116) |
| 15:52.09 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (n=geaaru@host114-28-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
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| 15:54.34 | Stskeeps | lardman: ping |
| 15:59.38 | *** join/#maemo mmatth (n=mills_m@68.177.174.16) |
| 16:02.11 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=slonopot@80.90.124.131) |
| 16:03.59 | Stskeeps | lardman: mail for you |
| 16:04.19 | *** join/#maemo booiiing (n=[booiiin@cl-959.dus-01.de.sixxs.net) |
| 16:08.19 | lardman | Stskeeps: got it, thanks |
| 16:08.26 | lardman | Stskeeps: has it changed? |
| 16:08.38 | Stskeeps | i didn't have great success but please test on your end |
| 16:08.46 | lardman | will do |
| 16:08.49 | Stskeeps | i don't believe in my own setups after i opened my n810 so |
| 16:08.49 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 16:09.02 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=user@83.149.10.118) |
| 16:09.03 | t_s_o | hmm, linux has spotty hardware support? http://www.infoworld.com/d/cloud-computing/why-chrome-os-will-fail-big-time-287 |
| 16:09.49 | logics | http://www.infoworld.com/d/cloud-computing/why-chrome-os-will-fail-big-time-287 |
| 16:09.59 | t_s_o | :P |
| 16:10.03 | logics | oops; "click to select" instead "clicked to paste" :) |
| 16:10.08 | wazd | Reheya all |
| 16:10.31 | qwerty12 | waves at wazd |
| 16:11.29 | zash | History repeats itself, it's the second comming of centralized computing and thinn clients! |
| 16:11.48 | mgedmin | only second? |
| 16:12.10 | suihkulokki | t_s_o: I get a big windows ad when cliking on that. makes wonder who paid for the article :P |
| 16:12.11 | lardman | how are mime types for random files determined? |
| 16:12.20 | t_s_o | zash: i suspect the reason why the first one failed, was that one could not have a always on connection to multiple systems |
| 16:12.36 | t_s_o | suihkulokki: did not see that, but then i have noscript installed... |
| 16:12.36 | lardman | suihkulokki: same here :D |
| 16:13.04 | suihkulokki | clicks on the ad to move more money away from redmond |
| 16:13.05 | zash | t_s_o: and/or that computers became cheep enouch so everyone could have one |
| 16:13.17 | SpeedEvil | zash: At least third |
| 16:13.17 | wazd | Somebody wrote me something |
| 16:13.17 | SpeedEvil | zash: Dumb serial terminals - X terminals |
| 16:13.18 | wazd | A while ago) |
| 16:13.22 | SpeedEvil | Maybe fourth. |
| 16:13.38 | t_s_o | zash: and good enough to run the then interesting apps, like spreadsheets ;) |
| 16:13.42 | SpeedEvil | Batch services where you submitted your program for running on the central computer from a desktop cardpunch |
| 16:14.33 | t_s_o | i would say that the x terminals basically built on the older telnet/serial terminals, giving them a gui layer... |
| 16:16.25 | lardman | hmm, are there standard libraries which will handle things like mmsto: or vcard: or ical: ? |
| 16:16.32 | lardman | as a URI sort of thing? |
| 16:17.30 | wazd | qwerty12: how's it going with transmission?) |
| 16:18.40 | qwerty12 | wazd: It's not, ATM - gonna look on the weekend :\ |
| 16:19.29 | wazd | qwerty12: you're gonna be punished! I'm calling Roman :D |
| 16:19.35 | lardman | heads for home to do some mbarcode coding |
| 16:19.52 | qwerty12 | wazd: NOOOO!!! :p |
| 16:21.52 | Shapeshifter | gouverneur: I'm from switzerland. |
| 16:23.33 | wazd | qwerty12: we'll see your behavoiur after 24 hours of balalayka music! |
| 16:23.49 | qwerty12 | letmeoutletmeoutletmeout |
| 16:24.34 | VDVsx | -testing is down again ? :( |
| 16:25.11 | mmatth | anybody having problems in sbox with gdb crashing when it is reading symbols for libQtGui.so.4 ? |
| 16:26.07 | VDVsx | mmatth, the default one is kinda broken |
| 16:26.19 | pupnik_ | should we even bother filing bugs we can't repeat? |
| 16:26.24 | VDVsx | try to compile and use 0.7 version |
| 16:27.25 | pupnik_ | somehow i prefer talking direct to software authors |
| 16:27.37 | VDVsx | S/0.7/7.0/ |
| 16:27.39 | mmatth | still feeling my way around with open-source, i should compile & install 0.7 version of gdb? can you give me a quick tip on where to find the source for the 0.7 version? |
| 16:27.58 | adeus | 7.0 indeed |
| 16:28.02 | adeus | 0.7 is quite old :) |
| 16:28.07 | pupnik_ | apt-get source |
| 16:28.22 | VDVsx | adeus, eheh |
| 16:28.28 | pupnik_ | if you can't pull in binaries, grab source from debian |
| 16:28.34 | pupnik_ | is what i did |
| 16:28.34 | adeus | even the default one hasn't crashed on me though |
| 16:28.52 | mmatth | thanks |
| 16:29.04 | jaska | 0.7 would be over 23 years old |
| 16:29.12 | VDVsx | adeus, I've seen a lot of ppl complaining about it |
| 16:30.04 | Klowner | hmm, amazon changed the price again? |
| 16:30.21 | gouverneur | Shapeshifter: where? aunt is in Berner Oberland and mum Oberer Zurisee |
| 16:30.31 | Khertan | no voluntary to port to fremantle a git version which work with garage ? |
| 16:30.36 | pupnik_ | oh a real keyboard is such a luxury after a day of thumbs |
| 16:31.15 | Shapeshifter | gouverneur: zürcher oberland ;) |
| 16:31.23 | VDVsx | mmatth, adeus , from the wiki: "Note: Fremantle X86 Gdb crashes. Using gdb 7.0 is recommended. " |
| 16:31.42 | VDVsx | http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt^ |
| 16:31.44 | adeus | I've managed to dodge the bullets hen |
| 16:31.46 | adeus | then |
| 16:31.52 | *** join/#maemo dmj7262 (n=david@192.17.207.17) |
| 16:32.03 | adeus | ..and used the harmattan repos recently :P |
| 16:32.58 | adeus | someone should port valgrind for arm |
| 16:33.18 | gouverneur | Shapeshifter: ;) |
| 16:33.19 | *** join/#maemo digitalstimulus (n=digitals@cpe-071-077-144-145.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 16:36.35 | pupnik_ | 42-11 "Call With Skype" yields "Incorrect Address" even with a + at beginning of number |
| 16:39.08 | ccooke | pupnik_: have you enabled calling phones? |
| 16:39.23 | ccooke | settings / im and voip accounts / your skyp account / settings |
| 16:39.52 | pupnik_ | oh not that i recall |
| 16:40.17 | pupnik_ | skype says enabled |
| 16:40.32 | ccooke | right, that's a bug then :-) |
| 16:40.55 | pupnik_ | ah enable calling phones is enabled |
| 16:40.58 | *** join/#maemo bigbrovar (n=bigbrova@83.229.6.19) |
| 16:41.01 | pupnik_ | dint see that ty |
| 16:41.33 | pupnik_ | maybe my free calls arent activated |
| 16:42.14 | *** join/#maemo Rhoruns (n=Rhoruns@ip98-165-84-98.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 16:42.53 | pupnik_ | summit world package appears active |
| 16:44.06 | pupnik_ | either bug or bad err message |
| 16:44.09 | pupnik_ | tz |
| 16:44.19 | lardman | re |
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| 16:50.42 | GeneralAntilles | sighs at DDP. |
| 16:51.02 | GeneralAntilles | wonders if Nokia realizes treating contributors like crap is not a good way to encourage future contribution. |
| 16:51.23 | derf | GA: I doubt they realize they're treating them like crap. |
| 16:51.29 | lardman | very very odd, mbarcode on diablo now looks hildonised |
| 16:51.47 | derf | lardman: Oh, so it works on Diablo now? |
| 16:52.22 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: well, at least it seems like the DDP experiment with community people didn't work out well so far :P |
| 16:52.50 | GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, unfortunately we seem to be loosing a lot of good people in the process. |
| 16:52.52 | lardman | derf: yeah sorry been busy decorating |
| 16:53.04 | lardman | derf: but yes, just testing the url open code now |
| 16:53.05 | derf | No worries, I've been pretty busy also. |
| 16:53.28 | lardman | I want to spin off all the data handling to other apps, as I hate writing webscraper code |
| 16:53.37 | kirma | GeneralAntilles: maybe Nokia is trying to compete with Apple |
| 16:53.38 | derf | I don't blame you. |
| 16:53.51 | lardman | plus then I might get a chance to look at the libdmtx code, which is far too slow for my liking |
| 16:54.40 | GeneralAntilles | kirma, hey, Apple just replaced my 5-year-old G5 with a brand new Mac Pro. |
| 16:55.21 | lardman | and you were still bitching iirc ;) |
| 16:55.46 | *** join/#maemo JamieBennett (n=JamieBen@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-tpbxmtnqllornpzn) |
| 16:55.47 | GeneralAntilles | Sure, because it was a pain in the ass, but at least I knew whether I was getting a warranty with it. ;) |
| 16:56.00 | lardman | I know, just pulling your leg |
| 16:56.15 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=user@83.149.10.132) |
| 16:56.25 | GeneralAntilles | Anyway, what Apple does isn't really relevant. |
| 16:56.36 | GeneralAntilles | The fact is, we've got several people threatening to move to other platforms over it. |
| 16:56.47 | GeneralAntilles | This is not the situation that a discount program like that should create. |
| 16:56.53 | lardman | yep, quite |
| 16:57.09 | lardman | hmm, hildon_uri_open() seems to do nothing much on Diablo |
| 16:57.14 | GeneralAntilles | It's the OPPOSITE of the effect we're after, actually. |
| 16:57.28 | JamieBennett | X-Fade: you around? |
| 16:57.37 | lardman | hey JamieBennett |
| 16:57.44 | JamieBennett | hey lardman |
| 16:57.47 | GeneralAntilles | JamieBennett, he's on vacation. |
| 16:57.50 | lardman | how's things? |
| 16:57.51 | JamieBennett | :( |
| 16:58.10 | lbt | JamieBennett: ..... videos? |
| 16:58.24 | JamieBennett | yep |
| 16:58.35 | lbt | problems? |
| 16:59.01 | *** join/#maemo baze (n=baze@g227037232.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:59.27 | JamieBennett | need some space to upload Zeeshan's video as I can't convert it here for Vimeo |
| 17:01.26 | zaheerm | wow is the builder stalled or something |
| 17:01.43 | zaheerm | i can see like 8 apps queued for the fremantle builder |
| 17:01.54 | lardman | wonders if X-Fade left an "only call in an emergency" number... :) |
| 17:02.10 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@nat/ibm/x-seuduzxeudxwvofg) |
| 17:02.40 | lardman | zaheerm: I pushed a package earlier today to Diablo |
| 17:02.52 | qwerty12 | Explains it |
| 17:02.54 | JamieBennett | apparently Zeeshan needs the video quick, I have it down to a 55mb .avi but I can't upload to vimeo here (can convert it to the right format it seems) and its 80$ to send it through the post. |
| 17:02.57 | lardman | tho there were loads in the fremantle queue then too |
| 17:02.59 | lardman | qwerty12: :p |
| 17:03.08 | JamieBennett | Are _any_ Nokia guys (or gals) around now? |
| 17:03.23 | zaheerm | JamieBennett, you can upload to a free dropbox account |
| 17:03.30 | zaheerm | JamieBennett, and share it with zeeshan |
| 17:03.37 | JamieBennett | ah, me goes to look |
| 17:04.23 | lardman | otherwise I can upload to to my (uni) webserver |
| 17:04.41 | JamieBennett | I still need to get it to you though lardman |
| 17:04.47 | lardman | yeah exactly |
| 17:04.52 | zaheerm | lardman, there are packages from 5 hours ago |
| 17:05.07 | lardman | zaheerm: hmm, perhaps qwerty12 was right ;) |
| 17:05.29 | lardman | has anyone successfully used hildonmime? |
| 17:05.39 | zaheerm | JamieBennett, dropbox give you 2GB free |
| 17:05.43 | lardman | or is that why we all use libosso to access the browser? |
| 17:07.25 | zaheerm | how do i make python packages make a noarch package rather than an i386/armel one? |
| 17:07.53 | VDVsx | zaheerm, the builder was kicked a will ago, should be working fine now |
| 17:08.02 | VDVsx | S/will/while/ |
| 17:08.10 | zaheerm | VDVsx, it is dying that it needs a will? :) |
| 17:08.40 | VDVsx | but -testing seems down anyway :( |
| 17:08.52 | lardman | probably needs to be put out of it's misery and restarted |
| 17:08.53 | qwerty12 | zaheerm: Off the top of my head, Architecture: All and use the binary-indep in rules instead of binary-arch |
| 17:09.03 | lardman | s/it's/its |
| 17:09.52 | lardman | argh, bloody Garage is like molasses too |
| 17:10.13 | andre__ | anybody knows a page anywhere that lists the Bluetooth skills of the N900? Like DUN, Object Push, Generic Object Exchange, Serial Port, ...? http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications/ does not |
| 17:10.57 | Stskeeps | andre__: out of curiousity, what bug are you glancing at? |
| 17:11.05 | VDVsx | X-Fade, please come back sooonnnnnn |
| 17:11.25 | qwerty12 | VDVsx: Get SuperTux on the case |
| 17:11.27 | andre__ | Stskeeps, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5550 |
| 17:11.28 | povbot | Bug 5550: "Not enough memory in target location" when receiving image from Nokia SU-1B using Bluetooth |
| 17:11.29 | VDVsx | andre__, yup forum nokia |
| 17:11.41 | andre__ | i think it's invalid (or: not supported) |
| 17:11.46 | *** join/#maemo ali1234 (n=al@87.106.101.225) |
| 17:11.48 | VDVsx | qwerty12, humm ? |
| 17:12.11 | qwerty12 | VDVsx: Make Tux find X-Fade and bring him back :p |
| 17:12.54 | VDVsx | lol |
| 17:13.25 | VDVsx | andre__, A2DP, AVRCP, FTP, HFP, HSP, OPP |
| 17:13.33 | VDVsx | from: http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/N900/ |
| 17:13.36 | andre__ | ah, found it in the on-device docu too |
| 17:13.37 | *** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@a91-153-253-251.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:13.39 | andre__ | haha, thanks :) |
| 17:13.47 | andre__ | bookmarks |
| 17:15.06 | lbt | JamieBennett: ping me later... |
| 17:15.09 | *** join/#maemo Xisdibik (n=Xisdibik@206-169-98-162.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 17:15.32 | JamieBennett | lbt: trying to upload to youtube as a last resort |
| 17:15.47 | VDVsx | andre__, seems a bug to me, if that 'device' only needs obex stuff |
| 17:16.36 | andre__ | VDVsx, i'm unsure. the webpage for that device does not list the N900 |
| 17:16.39 | andre__ | as supported |
| 17:17.02 | VDVsx | eheh: "send handwritten MMS messages to a compatible phone or email address" |
| 17:17.07 | Shapeshifter | mhh, invisible shield is now available. |
| 17:17.07 | VDVsx | lol |
| 17:17.12 | Shapeshifter | http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield/nokia-n900-cases-screen-protectors-covers-skins-shields.php |
| 17:17.12 | *** join/#maemo korius_ (n=quassel@188.98.215.93) |
| 17:17.15 | Shapeshifter | for those who care. |
| 17:17.17 | qwerty12 | andre__: But if it supports the N800... |
| 17:17.36 | lardman | andre__: what is the device? |
| 17:18.03 | lardman | oh bug? |
| 17:18.10 | *** join/#maemo matt_c_ (n=mcroydon@gateway.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 17:18.24 | VDVsx | lardman, http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/home-and-office/wireless-digital-pens/su-1b |
| 17:18.31 | VDVsx | weird stuff to me :P |
| 17:18.42 | lardman | hmm, cool, send me one and I'll debug ;) |
| 17:19.04 | andre__ | qwerty12, but not the N810 (according to that list) |
| 17:19.19 | andre__ | lardman, kind of a pen to write, and it sends the data per bluetooth i think |
| 17:19.32 | lardman | yeah, looks sort of cool |
| 17:19.46 | Xisdibik | Good morning Maemoers |
| 17:20.50 | VDVsx | andre__, if it sends a image, why it needs 3 different BT profiles, lol |
| 17:21.09 | VDVsx | actually 4 |
| 17:21.23 | andre__ | VDVsx, big *shrug* :-D |
| 17:21.28 | lardman | hmm, DUN, interesting |
| 17:22.39 | andre__ | going through his bugmail backlog |
| 17:23.27 | Flandry | Still stuck with one vote for testing :/ |
| 17:24.23 | dmj7262 | has anyone tried the mobile vimeo site on n900? |
| 17:24.53 | wirelessdreamer | dmj7262: n900 choked on hulu when I tried it at the meetup |
| 17:25.14 | VDVsx | Flandry, app ? |
| 17:25.17 | lardman | argh, why can't I get the browser to open an URL on my N810?! |
| 17:25.31 | Flandry | uqm |
| 17:25.40 | dmj7262 | nevermind...the mobile site has limited selection apparently |
| 17:25.58 | *** join/#maemo abstract3d (n=abstract@samos-hlab40.aegean.gr) |
| 17:26.05 | abstract3d | HELLO MAEMO! :p |
| 17:26.27 | lardman | qwerty12: can you remember which code you pointed me at long ago? |
| 17:27.03 | qwerty12 | lardman: searching for "tablet-browser-interface.h" perhaps |
| 17:27.16 | lardman | ok will try that in a tick |
| 17:27.38 | lardman | thanks btw |
| 17:28.19 | GeneralAntilles | Flandry, does it pause in the background? |
| 17:28.29 | Flandry | yes |
| 17:28.35 | Flandry | i added that |
| 17:28.52 | Flandry | it throttles down all threads and pauses game when it loses focus |
| 17:28.56 | *** join/#maemo achipa (n=chatzill@Maemo/community/contributor/achipa) |
| 17:30.09 | GeneralAntilles | Anyone else who's tested can vote here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/uqm/0.6.7-0maemo/ |
| 17:30.11 | lardman | rubbish, I needed a com.lardman. in front of my mbarcode |
| 17:30.35 | *** join/#maemo jayabharath (n=a0866114@nat/ti/x-cxenhptzczemqmgs) |
| 17:30.36 | lardman | so the browser is open at least, but not at the right url |
| 17:30.40 | RST38h | moos thoughtfully |
| 17:31.02 | qwerty12 | lardman: It assumes "com.nokia." otherwise, which doesn't work if your service file doesn't have the same... |
| 17:31.13 | lardman | ah I see |
| 17:31.15 | GeneralAntilles | Yeesh, it's like voting by mail. |
| 17:31.22 | lardman | makes some sense now |
| 17:31.28 | derf | What's wrong with voting by mail? |
| 17:31.48 | RST38h | HELO, qwerty, lardman, derf, General |
| 17:31.54 | derf | RST38h: HI THERE. |
| 17:31.54 | lardman | hi RST38h |
| 17:32.09 | Flandry | yes, thanks GeneralAntilles |
| 17:32.10 | qwerty12 | Hiya, RST38h |
| 17:32.25 | GeneralAntilles | derf, I don't have unlimited free time? ;) |
| 17:32.55 | VDVsx | derf, hey, thanks for the help in the other day, with the dbus stuff :) |
| 17:33.09 | derf | VDVsx: Yer welcome. Did you finally get it working? |
| 17:34.02 | VDVsx | derf, yes, actually there's a file with the default session saved:) |
| 17:34.20 | VDVsx | /tmp/session_bus_address.user ^ |
| 17:34.53 | qwerty12 | VDVsx: Is it too late to mention that prefixing sudo with "run-standalone.sh" will also work? |
| 17:34.55 | Shapeshifter | GeneralAntilles: you're suggesting boxwave. Have you ever compared it to an invisible shield? And, it the boxwave as scratch resitant as the IS? |
| 17:35.25 | VDVsx | qwerty12, in the device ? lol |
| 17:35.31 | qwerty12 | VDVsx: Yep :) |
| 17:35.31 | *** join/#maemo cure` (n=cure@rzavelli.demon.nl) |
| 17:35.49 | derf | Hah, apparently so. |
| 17:36.26 | GeneralAntilles | Shapeshifter, friend of mine had one, they're OK, but a pain in the ass to apply and I can't say I care for the texture. |
| 17:36.31 | VDVsx | qwerty12, lol , oh my |
| 17:36.58 | zaheerm | VDVsx, builder still looks stuck |
| 17:37.15 | *** join/#maemo eichi_ (n=eichi@stgt-5f709ba7.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 17:37.29 | VDVsx | qwerty12, now I already have code to grab the session, will try in the next version :P |
| 17:37.35 | hrw | have a nice weekend guys |
| 17:37.35 | qwerty12 | Hehe |
| 17:37.51 | VDVsx | zaheerm, it's slow |
| 17:37.52 | qwerty12 | You too, hrw |
| 17:38.23 | lardman | bye hrw|gone, you too |
| 17:38.23 | *** join/#maemo tiflsc (n=tiflsc@c054.fem.tu-ilmenau.de) |
| 17:38.30 | Shapeshifter | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHde1oYCbXg&feature=related wtf I'll not lend my phone to this guy |
| 17:38.42 | *** part/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@nat/ibm/x-seuduzxeudxwvofg) |
| 17:39.04 | VDVsx | zaheerm, my package submitted last night was built a while ago, so it's working :P |
| 17:39.14 | Shapeshifter | what a moron. |
| 17:40.29 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, you've a MAC right ? |
| 17:40.59 | GeneralAntilles | Media Access Control? |
| 17:41.08 | VDVsx | yes |
| 17:41.09 | VDVsx | lol |
| 17:41.15 | VDVsx | no a Mac |
| 17:41.19 | VDVsx | :P |
| 17:41.25 | GeneralAntilles | Yes. |
| 17:41.47 | lardman | balls, why is my callback data now empty |
| 17:41.51 | lardman | rubbish |
| 17:41.55 | lardman | goes to the pub |
| 17:41.58 | lardman | cu all later |
| 17:42.01 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, can you test something from me, it's easy and only take a while |
| 17:42.11 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, what? |
| 17:42.15 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 17:42.41 | qwerty12 | VDVsx: "only take a while" is not a good way of convincing someone to do something :p |
| 17:43.18 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, bluemaemo 3.8 (-testing), you've to remove any previous pairing between the n900 and the Mac |
| 17:43.53 | VDVsx | qwerty12, I know my English sucks :P |
| 17:44.13 | GeneralAntilles | will bring a phrasebook from the US for VDVsx. :P |
| 17:44.28 | qwerty12 | VDVsx: Gah, it's fine; I was just taking the piss :p |
| 17:44.30 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, thanks ;) |
| 17:44.31 | VDVsx | lol |
| 17:44.35 | *** join/#maemo stiev3 (n=stiev3@ip24-253-157-104.hr.hr.cox.net) |
| 17:44.50 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (n=unixSnob@starfury.spearlink.com) |
| 17:45.08 | rrr__ | eek! |
| 17:45.34 | *** join/#maemo theoris (n=quassel@77-22-106-182-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 17:46.04 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, the package is in -devel, my bad |
| 17:46.20 | rrr__ | im missing the hildonmm header |
| 17:46.44 | GeneralAntilles | It just keeps getting more complicated. . . . |
| 17:46.58 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, be prepared because the UI is unfinished |
| 17:47.05 | VDVsx | :P |
| 17:47.33 | qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles: quit yo jibba jabba, fool: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/install/bluemaemo.install |
| 17:48.01 | VDVsx | oh that's new for me o_0 |
| 17:48.06 | GeneralAntilles | The Release file is screwed up again. |
| 17:48.09 | Shapeshifter | mh. I think I'll buy accidental insurance for my n900 anyway. If I scratch it too hard, I could just wash it or something, and get a replacement for 30 bucks. |
| 17:48.16 | qwerty12 | Ouch |
| 17:48.17 | Shapeshifter | I wonder though if I'd actually do that. |
| 17:48.45 | GeneralAntilles | Shapeshifter, nothing to scratch but the screen, just get a protector. ;) |
| 17:49.19 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, ah and I changed the section as you suggested :) |
| 17:49.27 | VDVsx | needs to close some bugs |
| 17:49.30 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 17:50.13 | *** join/#maemo filip42 (n=filip@ankh-morpork.disque-monde.org) |
| 17:50.39 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, well, I'll test it as soon as -devel comes back. |
| 17:51.21 | VDVsx | again :( |
| 17:52.06 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 17:53.05 | aSIMULAtor | good evening |
| 17:53.20 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, is just to see if the connection stuff is working properly with Mac :) |
| 17:53.29 | VDVsx | aSIMULAtor, hey |
| 17:53.36 | VDVsx | :) |
| 17:53.56 | aSIMULAtor | hello my portugese distant relative |
| 17:53.57 | aSIMULAtor | :P |
| 17:54.14 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A1673E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:54.24 | Shapeshifter | lol people on the forums..... "will chrome OS run on the n900?" |
| 17:54.33 | Pavlov | lol |
| 17:54.37 | Shapeshifter | what kind of question is that, and why would people care >.> |
| 17:54.48 | GeneralAntilles | Shapeshifter, same reason they want Android. |
| 17:54.51 | adeus | "yes if you make it to run on it" |
| 17:54.53 | GeneralAntilles | They're silly people. |
| 17:55.11 | adeus | "here is the source, make the necessary adjustments" |
| 17:55.13 | VDVsx | aSIMULAtor, lol |
| 17:55.18 | |R | well, the more OS choice, the better the platform? |
| 17:55.25 | Shapeshifter | GeneralAntilles: well android at least is a bit more then a crap linux distro. |
| 17:55.44 | VDVsx | adeus ++ |
| 17:55.47 | JamieBennett | sorted, Zeeshan's talk is processing at http://www.blip.tv/file/2875261/ |
| 17:55.47 | *** join/#maemo ljp (n=quagmire@218.185.108.156) |
| 17:55.54 | JamieBennett | goes back to the discussions |
| 17:57.17 | GeneralAntilles | Damn incomprehensible Nokia travel agent emails. |
| 17:57.24 | GeneralAntilles | Where's that damn decoder ring. . . . |
| 17:58.09 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, I'm receiving a lot of spam from them, about strikes all over Spain, lol |
| 17:58.34 | VDVsx | and also got one warning about ETA , hihih |
| 17:58.50 | GeneralAntilles | Hooray for 9 hour flights. |
| 17:58.53 | *** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 17:59.08 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, too short :p |
| 17:59.20 | GeneralAntilles | Second leg is 3 hours. |
| 17:59.39 | *** join/#maemo anselmolsm (n=anselmo@200.184.118.130) |
| 17:59.49 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: at least you don't have to wait for passport this time |
| 17:59.49 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 17:59.55 | GeneralAntilles | Indeed |
| 18:01.08 | VDVsx | my return trip from SF was 20+ :) |
| 18:01.12 | *** join/#maemo Kt_ (n=Kirsat@24.99.39.10) |
| 18:02.57 | VDVsx | ouch they used a steady cam that only filmed half of the projection (@ summit videos) :( |
| 18:03.31 | GeneralAntilles | Steady cam or tripod? |
| 18:03.56 | Stskeeps | the sound is like that on all recordings? |
| 18:03.59 | Stskeeps | could be worse.. |
| 18:04.00 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 18:04.18 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, something like that, dunno |
| 18:04.32 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, where you connection ? London ? |
| 18:04.37 | VDVsx | *your |
| 18:04.52 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, assuming it's not one of these. :P http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/public/product_images/altimage/22%2009%202006steadicam_flyer_1.jpg |
| 18:04.54 | GeneralAntilles | JFK |
| 18:05.59 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, no the second leg |
| 18:06.36 | GeneralAntilles | Tampa to JFK to Barcelona |
| 18:09.05 | *** join/#maemo anselmolsm (n=anselmo@200.184.118.130) |
| 18:10.07 | *** join/#maemo EspadaV8_L (n=espadav8@93-97-175-175.zone5.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:10.59 | andre__ | summit videos? in public? where? |
| 18:11.25 | GeneralAntilles | http://jamiebennett.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dc |
| 18:11.36 | GeneralAntilles | The Bug Jar lightning talk is good. |
| 18:11.41 | qwerty12 | "nsfw=dc"? |
| 18:12.12 | andre__ | uh |
| 18:12.15 | andre__ | shweet |
| 18:12.17 | GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, lots and lots of porn. Click the link. |
| 18:12.36 | qwerty12 | "Elisator for cow's health analisys - Manrique Lopez" - now this sounds sexy |
| 18:12.49 | qwerty12 | Cow? Check. Anal? Check |
| 18:13.50 | *** join/#maemo anselmolsm (n=anselmo@200.184.118.130) |
| 18:14.13 | Xisdibik | porn? where? |
| 18:14.45 | Xisdibik | qwerty12: your missing out on the sheep |
| 18:15.19 | qwerty12 | blames libhildonfm for fucking with his mind |
| 18:15.22 | qwerty12 | Heh |
| 18:15.46 | sgbirch | I just called Vodafone to see if I can get a tether plan so I dont have the 500M limit they put on theunlimit plan |
| 18:15.50 | sgbirch | no |
| 18:15.56 | sgbirch | is there a better cell corp for data |
| 18:16.02 | Xisdibik | O2? |
| 18:16.25 | Xisdibik | has no idea, just said it cuzit was in his head |
| 18:16.26 | sgbirch | ok |
| 18:16.35 | sgbirch | Xisdibik: lol |
| 18:16.49 | sgbirch | I have been happy with vodafone .. but they dont seem to like data |
| 18:17.42 | *** join/#maemo tonikitoo (n=tonikito@201-75-36-89-ma.cpe.vivax.com.br) |
| 18:18.22 | SpeedEvil | sgbirch: where are you? |
| 18:18.38 | SpeedEvil | sgbirch: uk? |
| 18:18.39 | sgbirch | uk |
| 18:18.53 | SpeedEvil | sgbirch: You on contract ATM? |
| 18:18.59 | sgbirch | but I work in the US . .. so I need a solution for both corps |
| 18:19.06 | *** join/#maemo hexa_ (n=hexa@69.90.176.100) |
| 18:19.08 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 18:19.12 | sgbirch | contrect expired in both contries |
| 18:19.24 | sgbirch | vodafone in uk and T-Mobile is usa |
| 18:19.39 | hexa_ | hi there small question . could someone point me to some doc about sending/receiving sms on maemo 5 ... can't find it in the dev guide it seems ? |
| 18:20.05 | *** join/#maemo BBNS_ (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 18:21.02 | SpeedEvil | sgbirch: Do you do normal calls - or just data? |
| 18:21.15 | sgbirch | normal + data |
| 18:21.20 | andre__ | hexa_, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33597 ? |
| 18:21.37 | hexa_ | andre__, thx! :) |
| 18:21.51 | andre__ | hexa_, well... just a starting point. don't think it'll cover all you need :-/ |
| 18:22.07 | hexa_ | andre__, np that's what I needed |
| 18:22.46 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (n=alehorst@189.114.182.188.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 18:23.46 | wjt | hexa_: i think there's convenience API on the messaging UI to do this |
| 18:24.35 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 18:24.42 | SpeedEvil | sgbirch: how many months are you int he UK? |
| 18:24.47 | *** join/#maemo aquatix (n=aquatix@higgs.soleus.nu) |
| 18:25.04 | sgbirch | 6 |
| 18:25.18 | hexa_ | wjt, humm k I guess I'll have some code reading to do hehe |
| 18:25.20 | sgbirch | oh .. UK .. 3 |
| 18:25.26 | wjt | hexa_: hmm, doesn't look like there is |
| 18:25.33 | sgbirch | SpeedEvil: 3 |
| 18:26.05 | hexa_ | wjt, hehe k np.. It should not be that bad if I can with telepathy |
| 18:26.06 | SpeedEvil | sgbirch: I would be looking at tesco IIRC they offer good value for pay-as-you-go - when you want months of service at a time. |
| 18:26.34 | SpeedEvil | sgbirch: they offer a 'triple your top-up' - which would work well |
| 18:26.37 | sgbirch | cool |
| 18:26.42 | Milo- | andre__ oh my gosh, why did you link to a topic that is so horribly written? capitalizing each word's first letter is just as unbearable as all caps. |
| 18:26.49 | sgbirch | who is the provider though, tesco doesnt have a network |
| 18:26.59 | SpeedEvil | sgbirch: I suspect generally that a contract is not going to work well for you. Dunno. |
| 18:26.59 | RST38h | Milo: And Why Is That? |
| 18:27.02 | andre__ | Milo-, I think that two people (and me) told that guy already :) |
| 18:27.09 | SpeedEvil | sgbirch: the provider may not sell that tarrif directly. |
| 18:27.28 | andre__ | B0rked Auto-Kapitalization Maybe? Shrug. :-P |
| 18:27.38 | wjt | hexa_: the short version is⦠find the ring account, get a text channel to the number, send your message, close it up |
| 18:27.40 | Milo- | just bloody annoying |
| 18:27.52 | hexa_ | wjt, seems simple enought :) |
| 18:27.54 | *** join/#maemo fernando_ (n=fwr@adsl-99-155-152-33.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:28.21 | *** join/#maemo sven-tek (n=sven-tek@p5B2C2D54.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:29.59 | sgbirch | SpeedEvil: I have used contract with both corps but hate them. Want to move to payg |
| 18:30.00 | *** join/#maemo zap_ (n=zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net) |
| 18:30.09 | *** join/#maemo lcukn900 (n=user@82.132.139.217) |
| 18:30.11 | sgbirch | SpeedEvil: My kids are on that, it seems much better and cheaper |
| 18:30.23 | sgbirch | SpeedEvil: also seems cheaper to buy a phone |
| 18:30.39 | sgbirch | SpeedEvil: once you compute complete cost |
| 18:31.05 | RST38h | "As revealed by Crunchgear, Jobs recently sent an 11-word email to an longtime Mac developer who had come groveling to the cult leader after being threatened by a band of Apple lawyers." |
| 18:31.16 | SpeedEvil | sgbirch: perhaps. |
| 18:31.25 | Milo- | can you compile your source code _using_ your n900? |
| 18:31.26 | *** join/#maemo lcukn900 (n=user@82.132.139.217) |
| 18:31.30 | RST38h | (this is treated as the Second Coming in the news, of course) |
| 18:31.31 | SpeedEvil | sgbirch: If you're in the UK all the time, tehre are possibly better ways |
| 18:31.34 | SpeedEvil | Milo-: yes |
| 18:31.36 | Milo- | or do you have to develop and compile all code in the SDK? |
| 18:31.43 | qwerty12 | lcukn900: Can you compile your source code _using_ your n900? |
| 18:31.51 | SpeedEvil | Milo-: I don't know if there is a pre-prepared package to do that though. |
| 18:31.58 | lcukn900 | oooer xchat in extras-dev doesnt like changing the font |
| 18:32.19 | andre__ | still xchat quite rocks for the n900, compared to the n810 version :-P |
| 18:32.26 | qwerty12 | lcukn900: It's buggy as fuck, better off downgrading at the moment |
| 18:32.53 | Milo- | SpeedEvil okay, because the SDK isn't compatible with amd64 as far as I know :/ |
| 18:33.12 | GeneralAntilles | Everybody blame qwerty12! |
| 18:33.35 | andre__ | tss. |
| 18:33.35 | JohnHoe | Who? |
| 18:34.14 | lcukn900 | lol qwerty |
| 18:34.24 | lcukn900 | no not best off downgrading |
| 18:34.29 | Shapeshifter | just ordered a bl-5j battery from ebay. |
| 18:34.34 | lcukn900 | is the bugtracker up and running |
| 18:34.41 | Milo- | kind of annoying if I have to create a 32bit environment just to build my code :( |
| 18:34.52 | Shapeshifter | for 4.60$ I wonder if it is _any_ good at all. |
| 18:34.54 | lcukn900 | not just to pressure you, but so folks can help |
| 18:35.08 | GeneralAntilles | Good for blowing up your N900. |
| 18:35.12 | JohnHoe | Shapeshifter: A very lightweight paper weight? |
| 18:35.22 | lcukn900 | milo im annoyed about 64bit atm lol |
| 18:35.29 | lcukn900 | wanna swap |
| 18:35.40 | lcukn900 | i need big fonts |
| 18:35.42 | Milo- | 64bit is no problem ._· |
| 18:35.52 | RST38h | Shapeshifter: It will make a good firecracker |
| 18:35.52 | lcukn900 | if i edit the config manually does it change |
| 18:35.56 | Milo- | 32bit is a problem :( |
| 18:36.01 | JohnHoe | lcukn900: Yessir |
| 18:36.08 | Milo- | I left those days ages ago |
| 18:36.14 | lcukn900 | 64bit is not comfortable with scratchbox |
| 18:36.29 | lcukn900 | or rather makes everything moar tricky |
| 18:36.42 | Shapeshifter | Well, actually, I've read nowhere that cheap batteries really are any risk to anything. I strongly suspect it willget duff mutch quicker, but for 5 bucks... |
| 18:36.46 | Milo- | lcukn900 well that's what I understood |
| 18:36.46 | Shapeshifter | as a backup... |
| 18:37.16 | Milo- | I couldn't get the SDK to work on 64bit |
| 18:37.22 | lcukn900 | wheres the file and can sed change kt |
| 18:37.22 | lcukn900 | ive got no editor on device |
| 18:37.33 | adeus | I used it for a while |
| 18:37.43 | lcukn900 | milo whats needing you in 32bit then |
| 18:37.46 | adeus | some manual labor required but it's possible |
| 18:38.00 | Milo- | huh? |
| 18:38.31 | Milo- | could you re-elaborate? |
| 18:38.49 | Milo- | my inner interpreter failed |
| 18:39.08 | Shapeshifter | and sometimes the cheap aftermarket batteries are actually the same |
| 18:39.13 | Shapeshifter | same OEM supplier as the original. |
| 18:39.13 | ali1234 | Shapeshifter: $5 is about what batteries actually cost. it will be posted to you from china of course, even if the seller is local to you. |
| 18:39.47 | Shapeshifter | ali1234: yeah, hong kong. |
| 18:39.50 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N810 (n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12) |
| 18:42.03 | Sargun | Don't they put the gas gauge in the battery these days? |
| 18:42.20 | Shapeshifter | ali1234: well, it's actually 1 cent at the moment, the rest 4.59$ is shipping. |
| 18:51.21 | Shapeshifter | apple fans can be quite a bother |
| 18:51.35 | Shapeshifter | they're bots, mostly. |
| 18:52.16 | *** join/#maemo abstract3d (n=abstract@samos-hlab40.aegean.gr) |
| 18:52.16 | *** part/#maemo mihu (n=michael@p5489D37B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:52.52 | PaulFertser | Sargun: do you mean coloumb counter like in gta02? |
| 18:53.07 | Sargun | PaulFertser, yeah. |
| 18:53.30 | PaulFertser | Sargun: it looks like nokia hardware engineers are just imaginary ghosts, i've never seen one on irc. So there's nobody to answer your question ;) |
| 18:53.44 | PaulFertser | Sargun: you should have stayed with your gta02 ;) |
| 18:53.56 | Sargun | hahaha |
| 18:54.07 | Sargun | PaulFertser, Our GTA02s have an uptime of a year |
| 18:55.01 | PaulFertser | Sargun: impressing. Can you probably post some kind of a "success story" to the community ML to cheer up the crowd a bit? |
| 18:55.36 | Sargun | Yeah, then we abandoned them because their modems were fried |
| 18:56.05 | *** join/#maemo ragdi (i=tuukka@ruotsalaisten.sotilaiden.leiri.org) |
| 18:56.07 | PaulFertser | Sargun: that's even more interesting and important |
| 18:56.18 | *** join/#maemo mikedep333 (n=mikedep3@c-71-230-12-222.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 18:56.31 | PaulFertser | Sargun: care to elaborate? Probably it's too OT here, i invite you somewhere else. |
| 18:56.37 | Sargun | PaulFertser, Yes, maybe one of these days I'll draft an email |
| 18:56.40 | Sargun | #openmoko-cdevel ? |
| 18:56.41 | mikedep333 | hey all, I'm a US customer of AT&T and I am thinking of buying the unlocked N900 |
| 18:56.46 | mikedep333 | I cannot get a data plan however |
| 18:57.00 | mikedep333 | does anyone know if the N900 is usable with wi-fi only? |
| 18:57.04 | Pavlov | it is |
| 18:57.18 | mikedep333 | Pavlov, any more details? |
| 18:57.23 | qwerty12_N810 | mikedep333: Mine is SIM-less ATM |
| 18:57.32 | PaulFertser | Sargun: yep, whereever you want, probably #openmoko |
| 18:57.32 | kalikiana | mikedep333, you can even use it without any mobile network |
| 18:57.45 | qwerty12_N810 | mikedep333: I can still go online and everything |
| 18:57.51 | qwerty12_N810 | (Using Wi-Fi) |
| 18:58.01 | mikedep333 | I had to mess around with my Nokia 5800 XM to make it do mail for exchange only with wi-fi, not with mobile data |
| 18:58.16 | mikedep333 | ok, thanks |
| 18:58.27 | *** join/#maemo danilocesar (n=danilo@200.184.118.130) |
| 18:58.32 | mikedep333 | amazon just lowered the price to $480 USD after rebate |
| 18:58.57 | mikedep333 | I can't find an another unlocked cortex A8 phone for anywhere near the price |
| 18:59.15 | kalikiana | the mobile network also has a different icon when it asks for a connection if you use a sim for phone only |
| 18:59.24 | kalikiana | ie. you can easily see it |
| 18:59.26 | mikedep333 | gotcha |
| 19:01.36 | mikedep333 | amazon doesn't list when they'll ship it. It's shipping December 1st or so in the US, right? |
| 19:01.48 | ali1234 | how do i get the GLES 1.1 on to the n900? (i mean libGLES_CM.so) |
| 19:03.35 | ali1234 | libgles1-sgx-img: Depends: opengles-sgx-img-common (= 0.20090218.55.9+0m5) but 0.20090218.55.1+0m5 is to be installed |
| 19:06.00 | *** join/#maemo borism (n=boris@213-35-232-204-dsl.end.estpak.ee) |
| 19:06.26 | ali1234 | heh, that's blocking me from installing ioquake3 too |
| 19:06.34 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gateway.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 19:07.04 | *** join/#maemo luke-jr (n=luke-jr@2002:62b3:1d4c:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d) |
| 19:07.12 | yerga | ali1234, what firmware version do you have? |
| 19:07.20 | ali1234 | not updated yet |
| 19:07.31 | yerga | ali1234, then you should update |
| 19:07.36 | ali1234 | i wanted to test ogre3d before updating |
| 19:07.46 | ali1234 | because then if i ruin it, well, i'm going to update anyway |
| 19:08.16 | yerga | ali1234, it worked fine here with 42-11 |
| 19:08.36 | ali1234 | yeah |
| 19:08.48 | ali1234 | it doesn't inspire much confidence anyway |
| 19:08.56 | mikedep333 | anyone? the N900's US release date? |
| 19:09.26 | ali1234 | i mean are the repos basically going to break every tme there's a firmware update? |
| 19:09.34 | mikedep333 | never mind, found it |
| 19:10.00 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 19:10.00 | ali1234 | and what's the point of using apt anyway if you're going to make monolithic firmware images? |
| 19:13.49 | Jaffa | wonders how much of Children in Need he'll have to watch to see Doctor Who snippet |
| 19:13.54 | andre__ | there's also 3rd party software out there |
| 19:14.34 | andre__ | ali1234: as it's monolithic images switching to some proprietary stuff instead of apt makes sense? ;-) |
| 19:14.46 | ali1234 | so apt is just for 3rd party developers, who are continuously at the whim of nokia to not screw it up by a firmware update? |
| 19:14.51 | PaulFertser | ali1234: and what is the point in assuming nokia wants to use a sane strategy for updates? Once i was told that nokia doesn't target any users that can compile kernels (or know how to use apt-get/apt-cache). It looks very true given the strange hybrid update system they used for Nxx0. |
| 19:14.51 | Jaffa | ali1234: Most updates are shipped via apt, but during pre-production it's easier to ship whole images |
| 19:15.00 | ali1234 | because that's how it feels |
| 19:15.09 | andre__ | later on-the-fly updates do use apt. |
| 19:15.11 | *** join/#maemo woglinde (i=woglinde@92.225.4.30) |
| 19:15.26 | andre__ | however reflashing with a new image will use less memory IIRC |
| 19:15.40 | woglinde | jo |
| 19:16.37 | Jaffa | ali1234: "continuously at the whim" suggests Nokia are either malicious or secretive. When they know that 3rd party devs make the platform. |
| 19:17.00 | PaulFertser | andre__: what about the "Seamless Software Update"? Is it a sane way to update an apt-based distro in your opinion? |
| 19:17.10 | *** join/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host81-155-227-189.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:17.40 | woglinde | thats a funny dns |
| 19:17.42 | woglinde | host81-155-227-189.range81-155.btcentralplus.com |
| 19:17.56 | *** part/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host81-155-227-189.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:18.10 | *** join/#maemo trickie (n=trickie@86.93.227.181) |
| 19:18.23 | Shapeshifter | have any of you tried running synergy on the n900? |
| 19:18.39 | ali1234 | Shapeshifter: yes i have, it didn't work because of missing x libs |
| 19:18.48 | Shapeshifter | ali1234: mhh. okay. |
| 19:18.58 | andre__ | PaulFertser: I simply don't have enough technical knowledge to comment whether it's good or bad. From a user point I think it is quite flawless normally (not: always) and hence nice |
| 19:19.16 | *** join/#maemo simula (n=mark@209.189.194.130) |
| 19:19.21 | GAN900 | mikedep333, why no data? |
| 19:19.32 | GAN900 | It's only $15/mo with a voice plan. |
| 19:19.39 | ali1234 | Jaffa: it suggests nothing except the repos are currently broken for anyone who is not running the latest and greatest firmware, and there's no guarantee this won't happen again, perhaps 12 months after release, when the device is in the hands of people who don't know what a firmware update even is. |
| 19:20.00 | GAN900 | ali1234, you're running pre-release software. |
| 19:20.04 | GAN900 | Get over it. |
| 19:20.29 | GAN900 | Software update notifications appear automatically. |
| 19:20.30 | *** part/#maemo dabozz (n=benny@dslb-084-059-188-166.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:20.32 | PaulFertser | andre__: have you ever used Debian or any other distro? Do they use any strange dirty tricks like that to update the system? |
| 19:20.40 | ali1234 | it is a small step from "you're running pre-release software, get over it" to "you're running out of date software, get over it" to "your users are running out of date software, get over it" |
| 19:20.43 | GAN900 | All the user has to do is tap a couple of buttons. |
| 19:21.03 | ali1234 | actually, software update notifications don't appear automatically for system libraries, which is exactly what is broken in this case |
| 19:21.10 | GAN900 | sighs. |
| 19:21.11 | andre__ | installing ioquake also did not work with 47-18 yesterday because of the opengl dep issue |
| 19:21.12 | ali1234 | neither do they appear for firmware images |
| 19:21.33 | GAN900 | System libs will never be updated without an SSU update beong released. |
| 19:21.44 | ali1234 | unless they're 3rd party |
| 19:21.46 | andre__ | ali1234, how comes you now that they don't appear? |
| 19:21.49 | andre__ | s/now/know |
| 19:21.51 | qwerty12_N810 | andre__: Serves you right :-P |
| 19:21.54 | GAN900 | and, really, this is and ioq3 packaging issue. |
| 19:22.09 | PaulFertser | GAN900: what is SSU anyway? Why doesn't it come with the usual apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade? |
| 19:22.14 | andre__ | qwerty12_N810: hey, i just wanted to play an egoshooter while my g/f was sleeping next to me. quite normal, eh? :-P |
| 19:22.37 | GAN900 | It's a metapackage that updates the system software. |
| 19:22.44 | ali1234 | andre__: because i set up my own repo, uploaded a system lib to it (which was not marked with an extras/* section as per the guidelines) and then uploaded an updated version, and i was not notified of the update on the device |
| 19:22.52 | GAN900 | For a variety of largely legacy reasons. |
| 19:23.03 | ali1234 | the only way i could install it was to do it manually with apt-get |
| 19:23.04 | andre__ | qwerty12_N810, argh. "first person shooter" i mean. i think only the stupid germans call it "egoshooter"... |
| 19:23.06 | qwerty12_N810 | andre__: No, it's totally wrong. To redeem yourself, share the images :p |
| 19:23.08 | *** join/#maemo annoia (n=cyrax@x1-6-00-23-f8-2f-dd-bf.k963.webspeed.dk) |
| 19:23.11 | qwerty12_N810 | :) |
| 19:23.18 | GAN900 | ali1234, that's a good way to break things for your users. |
| 19:23.21 | RST38h | egoshooter sounds better |
| 19:23.25 | ali1234 | GAN900: yes it is, isnt it? |
| 19:23.34 | annoia | Which repository do I need to get libpython? |
| 19:23.35 | andre__ | qwerty12_N810, i only took one and there's no nudity, so probably not too interesting for you ;-) |
| 19:23.35 | RST38h | btw there is a homebrewn 3d gmame called Egoboo =) |
| 19:23.41 | PaulFertser | GAN900: i thought that all major distros managed to update without using weird unexpected ways, didn't they? |
| 19:23.48 | annoia | It doesn't seem to be in any of the ones I have available |
| 19:23.58 | *** join/#maemo trofi (n=slyfox@93.84.254.237) |
| 19:24.02 | GAN900 | can see he's not going to get anywhere in these silly discussions. |
| 19:24.07 | qwerty12_N810 | andre__: ROFL! I actually meant firmware images, but sure... :D |
| 19:24.22 | andre__ | ali1234: I don't think that overwriting system packages from some weird 3rd party repo should be ever supported by SSU ;-) |
| 19:24.39 | andre__ | qwerty12_N810, sure you did, sure. We all believe you... ;-) |
| 19:24.46 | ali1234 | andre__: why would i want to overwrite system packages |
| 19:24.55 | andre__ | you just stated that. |
| 19:24.57 | andre__ | don't know. |
| 19:24.59 | ali1234 | as usual, you are not listening to what people are actually saying |
| 19:25.13 | ali1234 | consider the case where i package some library which is NOT a system library |
| 19:25.15 | GeneralAntilles | ali1234, hypocrite. |
| 19:25.22 | ali1234 | some random library, libfoo |
| 19:25.31 | andre__ | ali1234: ah, "as usual". thanks for knowing me so well, dear unknown stranger ;-) |
| 19:25.32 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:25.34 | ali1234 | then, somebody else make a package which uses it |
| 19:25.36 | PaulFertser | GAN900: it's not a discussion. I honestly do not understand. And i assume many other users too. maemo.wiki.org doesn't tell the reasons unfortunately. What should i google to finally get it? |
| 19:25.54 | andre__ | ali1234, "<ali1234> andre__: because i set up my own repo, uploaded a system lib to it" and so on. |
| 19:25.58 | GeneralAntilles | PaulFertser, mobile devices are not PCs. |
| 19:26.16 | ali1234 | andre__: i consider a system lib to be any package which begins "lib..." |
| 19:26.25 | PaulFertser | GeneralAntilles: neither are netbooks |
| 19:26.31 | ali1234 | andre__: and NOT necessarily something provided already in the base firmware |
| 19:26.37 | Jaffa | PaulFertser: SSU is, basically, apt-get update && dist-upgrade; but the reason it has extra stuff around it is exactly the same reason Ubuntu has an update-manager |
| 19:26.38 | GeneralAntilles | They're a helluva lot closer than a 770. |
| 19:26.53 | *** join/#maemo aakashd (n=aakashd@nat/mozilla/x-lomphuoyfdlwhket) |
| 19:26.53 | andre__ | ali1234: apart from me not listening, any other personal problems with me, or quotes/URLs so I can try to improve my listening skills? (not kidding here, really interested) |
| 19:26.59 | *** part/#maemo aakashd (n=aakashd@nat/mozilla/x-lomphuoyfdlwhket) |
| 19:27.01 | hardaker | nokia support SUCKS |
| 19:27.03 | ali1234 | so anyway, if i find a security bug in my package, libfoo, and release an updated version, no users will ever be notified of it's existence |
| 19:27.22 | hardaker | (and they lie) |
| 19:27.54 | hardaker | when they said "they're shipping" the other day and you call they say "oh yeah, we're just waiting for fedex to pick them up" |
| 19:28.01 | PaulFertser | Jaffa: ubuntu is not a good example, i'm afraid. When i saw "fail-safe X server" (that is designed specifically to make xorg.conf editing harder) i lost all my hope in that distro. |
| 19:28.05 | hardaker | and keep saying that for days... somehow, I don't think it's fedex |
| 19:28.19 | andre__ | hardaker, uhm... which country? |
| 19:28.22 | hardaker | us |
| 19:28.39 | andre__ | bad :-/ |
| 19:28.43 | Jaffa | PaulFertser: I'm talking technical reasons |
| 19:29.01 | annoia | I'm trying to install the ssh client/server, but I'm missing openssh-client and openssh-server... Where to I get these (and why aren't they in the same repository?!!) |
| 19:29.03 | ali1234 | so, as it stands, the existing package management system makes it impossible for 3rd party developers to fix security bugs (or any other kind of bugs) in libraries |
| 19:29.14 | Jaffa | ali1234: There've been a number of discussion as to how to solve that, and there *is* a workaround. Feel free to participate on maemo-developers and patches to HAM always welcome. |
| 19:29.16 | ali1234 | and if you think that is a good idea then there's really no hope for you |
| 19:29.31 | PaulFertser | GeneralAntilles: i can't understand how an update stratagy for a mobile device differs from a PC OS, sorry. I admit i'm somewhat dumb. But probably other users are not very smart as well so it deserves some explanation imho. |
| 19:29.31 | *** join/#maemo jgoss (n=josh@unaffiliated/jgoss) |
| 19:29.48 | ali1234 | last time i raised this issue the workaround was to force a dependency on the package(s) which use it |
| 19:29.50 | Jaffa | ali1234: "Impossible" is wrong; because there's a trivial (and sub-optimal) workaround of releasing a new version of one piece of software which relies on it with a >= dependency. |
| 19:30.04 | *** join/#maemo bigbrovar (n=bigbrova@83.229.6.19) |
| 19:30.18 | ali1234 | in order for the user to be guaranteed to get the fixed lib, you have to fix *every* package which uses it |
| 19:30.26 | ali1234 | which could be several hundred megabytes of packages |
| 19:30.34 | GeneralAntilles | annoia, http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/free/o/openssh/ |
| 19:30.36 | GeneralAntilles | It's in Extras. |
| 19:30.55 | PaulFertser | Jaffa: i'm not a ubuntu user so i lack knowledge about its "update manager" but judging by the general ideas of that distro i assume it's quite possibly either solves a non-existant problem or tries to solve a real problem in an utterly wrong way. |
| 19:30.56 | *** join/#maemo caotic (n=caotic@189.157.133.129) |
| 19:31.00 | Jaffa | ali1234: As I said, it's sub-optimal and solutions are welcome |
| 19:31.37 | annoia | GeneralAntilles - That's pretty weird, as I have extras in my catalogues |
| 19:31.48 | ali1234 | the solution is really simple. the solution is not to have a solution. just show all updates whether they have a section or not. |
| 19:32.12 | Jaffa | ali1234: Not very user friendly for the mass-market. |
| 19:32.13 | javispedro | so that the user gets an update availables dialog for "libillumination"? |
| 19:32.22 | ali1234 | yes |
| 19:32.23 | javispedro | (sorry for putting that concrete example) |
| 19:32.24 | GeneralAntilles | annoia, Fremantle or Diablo? |
| 19:32.44 | ali1234 | or better the user gets "updates available, do you want to install? (y/n)" |
| 19:32.50 | annoia | GeneralAntilles - Fremantle |
| 19:32.57 | GeneralAntilles | annoia, what does apt-get update show? |
| 19:33.20 | GeneralAntilles | apt-get install openssh-server (or -client) shows not found, I presume? |
| 19:33.21 | Jaffa | ali1234: err, that *is* the notifications dialogue for updates. But, as you say, it only deals with user-facing packages. |
| 19:33.25 | annoia | GeneralAntilles - Actually apt-cache search ssh shows the openssh-client and server... |
| 19:33.31 | ali1234 | exactly, and that's the problem |
| 19:33.46 | Jaffa | ali1234: Yes, and your solution isn't compatible with the requirements. So a different solution is needed. |
| 19:33.52 | GeneralAntilles | Ah, apt-get install openssh ? |
| 19:34.02 | ali1234 | in that case the requirements are broken |
| 19:34.04 | Jaffa | Software Design 101: if the solution doesn't meet the requirements, it's not a solution. |
| 19:34.20 | *** join/#maemo Firebird (n=Firebird@pool-138-88-206-119.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 19:34.22 | GeneralAntilles | ali1234, that users not be exposed to pages and pages of meaningless gibberish? |
| 19:34.38 | Jaffa | s/meaningless/$& (to them) / |
| 19:34.42 | ali1234 | GeneralAntilles: the solution to that is not to show the user what is being installed unless they specifically ask to see it |
| 19:35.01 | GeneralAntilles | Hey, that's the solution we have now! |
| 19:35.15 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: No, he means not telling the user what's going to be updated at all |
| 19:35.19 | ali1234 | no, the solution we have now is not to update any packages which the user wont "understand" |
| 19:35.21 | *** join/#maemo anselmolsm (n=anselmo@200.184.118.130) |
| 19:35.28 | annoia | GeneralAntilles - Could it be that because installing the package removes a different package, the Nokia tool refuses? |
| 19:35.30 | Jaffa | Just that there are updates and it'll take 34.2MB to download |
| 19:35.42 | GeneralAntilles | annoia, installing openssh shouldn't remove anything. |
| 19:35.51 | GeneralAntilles | annoia, can you pastebin the apt log? |
| 19:36.21 | annoia | GeneralAntilles - It removes ssh and mp-fremantle-generic-tr |
| 19:36.37 | GeneralAntilles | ali1234, problem with that is that users often install repositories which will make their systems unbootable if a dist-upgrade is applied. |
| 19:36.41 | ali1234 | the problem is "the user doesn't understand about updates for libraries" and the solution we currently have is "lets just not update those libraries" when the correct solution is "lets just update the libraries without telling the user specifically what was updated" |
| 19:36.58 | annoia | GeneralAntilles - Not sure what you're looking for, but I'm fairly well versed in Linux :) |
| 19:37.17 | GeneralAntilles | annoia, this is on the device? 42-11? |
| 19:37.26 | Jaffa | suggests that people who are new to the platform don't panic without seeing things in practice; offer constructive solutions in the right place; and don't rant and insult people who are long standing contributors to the platform |
| 19:37.39 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, goodluckwiththat |
| 19:37.42 | annoia | GeneralAntilles - This is on a brand new N900. What does 42-11 refer to? |
| 19:37.50 | *** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@54.200.49.122-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 19:37.55 | GeneralAntilles | annoia, the software version. |
| 19:37.58 | GeneralAntilles | annoia, retail? |
| 19:38.01 | Jaffa | ali1234: i.e. an implicit meta-package of "Software libraries (342KB)" appearing in HAM? |
| 19:38.12 | ali1234 | sure, that would work for me |
| 19:38.14 | annoia | GeneralAntilles - Nokia development loaner |
| 19:38.25 | Jaffa | ali1234: Sounds like it might be a workable idea, however IRC isn't exactly the best feedback and decision system. |
| 19:38.34 | GeneralAntilles | annoia, can you go to control panel -> about and see what the version string is? |
| 19:38.51 | *** join/#maemo Hrww (n=hrw@chello089078170228.chello.pl) |
| 19:39.07 | PaulFertser | Jaffa: the problem is that everyone says: hey, maemo is a nice distro, there's apt to manage your packages, just like in your favourite debian. And then it suddenly appears it's not exactly like that. |
| 19:39.08 | annoia | GeneralAntilles - Ah, yes, 42-11 |
| 19:39.25 | GeneralAntilles | annoia, hrm, strange. |
| 19:39.29 | javispedro | PaulFertser: what part of apt is missing? |
| 19:39.36 | GeneralAntilles | And apt-get install openssh-server/client wants to remove things? |
| 19:39.47 | ali1234 | and it turns out this is all irrelevant anyway since the gles thing is not related to firmware versions, it's just a bug in the repo |
| 19:40.03 | javispedro | and a known one.. |
| 19:40.06 | GeneralAntilles | (annoia, that's the latest release available, by the way. The one they're shipping in retail units.) |
| 19:40.14 | annoia | GeneralAntilles - Yes, the packages I said. |
| 19:40.23 | annoia | GeneralAntilles - Cool. :D |
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| 19:41.07 | woglinde | hm nokia fires 300 people in reasearch |
| 19:41.08 | woglinde | nice |
| 19:41.08 | PaulFertser | javispedro: no apt part is missing. But extra confusing non-apt parts (SSU) are present. And that is just confusing. It's not explained anywhere why this extra mechanism is introduced and how it works. Just very confusing. I think i somewhat can read docs and the code but the page about SSU on the wiki tells about nothing to me. :-/ |
| 19:41.30 | GeneralAntilles | annoia, not sure what either package is related to. |
| 19:41.53 | ali1234 | also the gui update manage does not work like the way people have used other distros will expect for reasons i spent the last 15 minutes ranting about |
| 19:41.53 | javispedro | PaulFertser: SSU is a meta-package that has strong dependencies on certain versions of system components. like ubuntu-desktop. is that enough? |
| 19:42.00 | javispedro | ali1234: install synaptic |
| 19:42.11 | annoia | GeneralAntilles - Dunno. But it doesn't seem too disastrous to remove ;) |
| 19:42.11 | ali1234 | synaptic is not an update notifier |
| 19:42.21 | GeneralAntilles | annoia, at worst you may have to reflash. ;) |
| 19:42.35 | javispedro | ali1234: well install your favourite update notifier. |
| 19:42.40 | *** join/#maemo trickie (n=trickie@86.93.227.181) |
| 19:42.50 | GeneralAntilles | annoia, usually the disastrous removals you can spot when it wants to free about 140MB of installed packages. ;0 |
| 19:42.55 | annoia | Hehe |
| 19:43.02 | PaulFertser | javispedro: well... If it was written on the wiki _and_ it was clearly stated how it interacts with apt (e.g. what if i have my own kernel package that is on hold to avoid auto-updating etc), it'd be enough. |
| 19:43.11 | annoia | GeneralAntilles - Ten years of Debian/Ubuntu has taught me to spot those ;) |
| 19:43.37 | javispedro | PaulFertser: easy. if you have your own kernel you're on your own when updating. dist-upgrade, intuition, and good luck. |
| 19:43.41 | ali1234 | javispedro: i may have to do that. unfortunately there's no guarantee my users will do that |
| 19:44.51 | PaulFertser | javispedro: hm. Do you agree that SSU is confusing and scary to any Debian administrator even after he reads http://wiki.maemo.org/Seamless_Software_Update ? |
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| 19:45.15 | javispedro | ali1234: so all you want is for users to have updated versions of a lib you need? then yes you'll need a newer version of a user/ package every time. |
| 19:45.27 | javispedro | every time a newer version of the lib shows up. |
| 19:46.19 | javispedro | PaulFertser: no, I don't find it scary. The first thing I did was switch to unlocked. If you know how to recompile and flash your own kernel I'll find it disturbing a metapackage bothering you. |
| 19:49.44 | ali1234 | javispedro: which is bad if i didn't make any user visible package which uses the lib |
| 19:49.45 | PaulFertser | javispedro: it's written on the wiki that installing this package will overwrite my kernel. It's not clear if it will do it or not if the kernel is installed as a proper package and is put on hold. So uncertainty combined with unclear intentions is somewhat bothering. |
| 19:50.18 | javispedro | PaulFertser: "kernel installed as a proper package"? the kernel is not even on a filesystem! |
| 19:50.32 | javispedro | ali1234: and what use is a lib without a user-visible app? |
| 19:50.45 | ali1234 | javispedro: you assume that all packages are made by the same person? |
| 19:50.58 | ali1234 | the whole point of libraries is multiple packages may use them |
| 19:51.03 | javispedro | ali1234: no. I assume people talking. |
| 19:51.14 | ali1234 | well that's not a valid assumption |
| 19:51.27 | PaulFertser | javispedro: i think that the proper way would be to install kernels to the filesystem and to provide a tool like update-alternatives to flash the particular kernel you want. |
| 19:51.27 | javispedro | well then why we're going to have an ITP mailing list. |
| 19:51.32 | ali1234 | what if the person who makes the user package has disappeared? hit by a bus? |
| 19:52.06 | *** join/#maemo mikkov (n=user@80-186-28-196.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 19:52.12 | ali1234 | at best you have to scramble around for someone else to make an updated package |
| 19:52.14 | javispedro | ali1234: freeze the package forever in memoriam? or take over it? what a hard decision damn it! |
| 19:52.34 | ali1234 | of course if you just allow library updates, you don't need to do either |
| 19:52.45 | ali1234 | because the existing package would continue to work with the new lib |
| 19:53.02 | javispedro | until you hit a bug in the user/ app and you have to take over the package either way. |
| 19:53.10 | Jaffa | ali1234: Who does the testing in your "multiple people sharing a J. Random Library" world? |
| 19:53.17 | ali1234 | and of course it's even worse if multiple packages use the lib |
| 19:53.29 | Jaffa | Maemo doesn't have the release process, the entry requirements or the timescales of Debian. |
| 19:55.00 | Shapeshifter | when making a wallpaper for the n900, is one big wide image needed, or 4 small ones? |
| 19:55.20 | Jaffa | ali1234: Anyway, I quite like the "Software libraries" pseudo-package entry to handle lib upgrades that we got to. |
| 19:55.25 | ali1234 | Shapeshifter: 4 small ones |
| 19:55.27 | Shapeshifter | and, isn't it a bit of a waste of ressources to display a 3200x480 picture all the time? |
| 19:55.36 | Shapeshifter | ali1234: I see, thanks. |
| 19:55.41 | Jaffa | ali1234: Outline it on maemo-developers or (and I hate to say this) maemo.org/brainstorm/ |
| 19:55.44 | Shapeshifter | any preffered format? png? |
| 19:55.50 | *** join/#maemo felipec (n=felipec@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:55.52 | Shapeshifter | and, can it do SVG? |
| 19:56.06 | *** join/#maemo edgar83 (n=christop@cm56-222-142.liwest.at) |
| 19:56.10 | *** join/#maemo felipec_ (n=felipec@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:56.19 | javispedro | preffered format should be pvr. |
| 19:56.27 | javispedro | other than that, png. |
| 19:56.33 | Shapeshifter | javispedro: okay |
| 19:56.33 | javispedro | svg for a fixed resolution is wasteful at best. |
| 19:56.42 | Stskeeps | javispedro: got my mail? |
| 19:56.52 | javispedro | Stskeeps: yep, will read soon. |
| 19:57.00 | javispedro | and thanks. |
| 19:57.14 | Stskeeps | k |
| 19:57.26 | Stskeeps | javispedro: my status of those is a kernel panic but at least it doesn't error out. |
| 19:57.29 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 19:57.48 | javispedro | ouch. |
| 19:57.53 | javispedro | so I better grab the charger. |
| 19:58.14 | Stskeeps | needs a proper upnp media server |
| 20:00.27 | PaulFertser | What is also strange is that maemo doesn't seem to be widely accepted. All PDAs were using OPIE or GPE, now it's E's Illume or Xfce, lxdm in favour. If maemo is really good why didn't it attract developers who use other (than nokia's) devices like iPAQs, Zauruses etc? |
| 20:00.56 | javispedro | are you saying we come from a nokia/symbian background? |
| 20:01.16 | GeneralAntilles | Shapeshifter, 4 small ones (and a .desktop if you can swing it) on PR1.0, you can use one large one in PR1.1 (it'll automatically slice it up) |
| 20:01.32 | javispedro | now you have challenged the honor of my family! |
| 20:01.38 | javispedro | ;) |
| 20:01.41 | GeneralAntilles | PaulFertser, because Maemo isn't designed to run on different hardware |
| 20:01.42 | Jaffa | PaulFertser: There are lots of ex-devs from those platforms. |
| 20:02.08 | GeneralAntilles | and most of those devices don't have the resources to run Maemo well |
| 20:02.09 | GeneralAntilles | either way, please see Mer. |
| 20:02.09 | GeneralAntilles | ~mer |
| 20:02.09 | infobot | somebody said mer was http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer |
| 20:02.09 | Stskeeps | PaulFertser: because E/Illume is where mobile distributions go to die |
| 20:02.10 | GeneralAntilles | infobot! |
| 20:02.12 | javispedro | infobot: ping |
| 20:02.13 | infobot | ~pong |
| 20:02.22 | Stskeeps | PaulFertser: besides that, even intel tried to tame Maemo/Hildon and they failed at it |
| 20:03.27 | PaulFertser | GeneralAntilles: linux wasn't designed to run on anything except i386 too. |
| 20:04.32 | Milo- | PaulFertser yet it's 2^63-1 times better as 64bit platform than windwos |
| 20:04.38 | Milo- | windows, even. |
| 20:05.00 | *** join/#maemo tulkastaldo (n=tulkas@97-83-126-16.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com) |
| 20:05.01 | Jaffa | PaulFertser: And so look at Mer to see where Maemo can go. |
| 20:05.16 | javispedro | mergotchi! |
| 20:05.26 | PaulFertser | Jaffa: i know. But many attempts to actually use Mer on other devices come nowhere for whatever reason... |
| 20:05.38 | Stskeeps | FR doesn't count |
| 20:05.38 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 20:05.46 | PaulFertser | Stskeeps: what does? |
| 20:06.05 | GeneralAntilles | Something that has real hardware. |
| 20:06.06 | Stskeeps | FR was a special case cos we had to deal with armv4t and our stuff wasn't compatible with debian stable :P |
| 20:06.17 | Jaffa | PaulFertser: Where was Linux in terms of platforms and devices a couple of years into its dev? |
| 20:06.26 | PaulFertser | It's also horrifying to see nokia use maemo again instead of mer. |
| 20:06.32 | Stskeeps | (OBS only takes in stable versions) |
| 20:06.47 | Jaffa | PaulFertser: Then you don't understand Maemo, Nokia, mobile devices, consumer electronics *or* Mer. |
| 20:07.03 | PaulFertser | Jaffa: or life |
| 20:07.05 | Stskeeps | PaulFertser: nah, mer is too immature for that big scale. we happened a little before fremantle first prealpha |
| 20:07.42 | Jaffa | PaulFertser: I've no idea about your life. But when the project leader for Mer doesn't agree, and has now been employed by Nokia to work on it; perhaps you should listen more than lecture? ;-) |
| 20:07.53 | RST38h | sighs: not the absolute open source argument again |
| 20:08.10 | Stskeeps | Jaffa: for good measure, paid by nokia, not employee. self-employed in own company |
| 20:08.13 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 20:08.16 | lardman|afk | pokes his head in on the way to another glass of wine and agrees :) |
| 20:08.20 | Jaffa | Stskeeps: Indeed. Even better. |
| 20:08.24 | PaulFertser | RST38h: nope, you mistreat technology advantages for religios ones. |
| 20:08.33 | javispedro | RST38h: yes! BOTH the morning and the afternoon "not enough free" discussion! |
| 20:08.40 | RST38h | Me? Religious advantages? |
| 20:08.43 | javispedro | and the evening, fwiw! |
| 20:08.50 | PaulFertser | RST38h: you see where maemo went: nowhere. It remained a semi-open platform for nokia devices only. Not gaining community acceptance. |
| 20:08.59 | RST38h | hails the Tentacled One, who has definitely claimed another victim just now |
| 20:09.05 | Jaffa | boggles at so much energy being poured into slamming Nokia for imagined or hypothetical problems, whilst totally ignoring the easily documentable current problems which are still ongoing. |
| 20:09.07 | PaulFertser | RST38h: to me it looks like a strong argument against "the way" nokia chooses. |
| 20:09.15 | Stskeeps | PaulFertser: i still believe what people -really- want is Maemo, though. |
| 20:09.27 | Stskeeps | quality mobile platform |
| 20:09.35 | PaulFertser | Stskeeps: if by people you mean "lusers" then probably yes. |
| 20:09.47 | lardman|afk | most people are lusers really |
| 20:09.49 | Jaffa | PaulFertser: Past tense? When Nokia are launching the most mainstream-focused Maemo device, which has had more commercial interest than any of the prior devices? I think you're smoking something. |
| 20:09.50 | Stskeeps | twitches |
| 20:09.52 | RST38h | does not see why Maemo should "go" somewhere else |
| 20:09.52 | PaulFertser | Stskeeps: if by people you mean fellow developers, then probably you're wrong. |
| 20:10.04 | RST38h | It is a Linux distribution made by Nokia to power Nokia mobile devices |
| 20:10.13 | Shapeshifter | makin a wallpaper I realize just how huge the resolution of that device really is >.> |
| 20:10.14 | Milo- | where is the download link for the latest maemo-sdk? O_o All I see is the 'release notes' :/ |
| 20:10.19 | javispedro | PaulFertser: I don't know if you think that Maemo wants to replace Debian... it does not. |
| 20:10.27 | PaulFertser | Jaffa: (smoking something) i wish i did, probably i wouldn't have bothered you with "useless" questions then. |
| 20:10.32 | RST38h | BTW, creating your own Linux distribution is no rocket science, you can always make your own and port it wherever you like |
| 20:10.39 | Jaffa | PaulFertser: You aren't asking questions; you're making statements. |
| 20:11.04 | PaulFertser | Jaffa: yep, that's my stupid way of asking questions, sorry for that, i'm too used to this habit :( |
| 20:11.36 | Jaffa | Milo-: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_SDK#Installing_SDK |
| 20:11.37 | lardman | well tbh I'd prefer something that just works to hack on, doing e.g. DSP hacking. I want everything else to just work in a luser-like sense |
| 20:11.41 | RST38h | PaulFertser: Now, if you are willing and able to make a Linux distro that will match Maemo functionality on a bunch of other mobile devices (let us say HTC ones) and give it away for free, I am all for it |
| 20:11.52 | RST38h | PaulFertser: Start hacking. |
| 20:12.03 | PaulFertser | RST38h: SHR is about to provide that. |
| 20:12.09 | Stskeeps | twitches again |
| 20:12.21 | lardman | ~SHR |
| 20:12.22 | infobot | methinks shr is The Stable Hybrid Release (SHR), intended to be a community driven distribution composed of the FSO and some basic applications, that can be configured to use several different graphical toolkits, for example GTK or EFL. SHR is based on the FSO build. At first, SHR was introduced in order to use the Openmoko2007.2 GTK software in combination with the new FSO, but things have changed. |
| 20:12.26 | RST38h | PaulFertser: If you are just making grand statements about how software is supposed to be free, I suggest you stuff it for now. |
| 20:12.40 | Milo- | Jaffa how come there isn't link to that in the Maemo5-sdk's 'downloads' page? |
| 20:12.44 | PaulFertser | RST38h: but maemo is not. Maemo is semi-open platform to run on nokia devices only. |
| 20:12.51 | Milo- | I would assume that it would be the most logical place for it ._· |
| 20:13.00 | RST38h | Paul: Fine with me. |
| 20:13.05 | Jaffa | Milo-: I found that from http://maemo.org/development/ - Forum Nokia confuses me; hopefully because I'm just not used to it. |
| 20:13.24 | RST38h | feels comfortable using semi-open platform on Nokia devices |
| 20:13.25 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@a109-50-50-4.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 20:13.34 | RST38h | Are there any problems with that? |
| 20:13.42 | Jaffa | RST38h: +1 |
| 20:13.48 | Milo- | https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=528 I expected it to be _here_ |
| 20:13.55 | lardman | hmm, /me remembers why he was cursing the browser opening code |
| 20:14.10 | lbt_ | would would be happier if he could get any contacts onto his flippin phone... |
| 20:14.19 | Jaffa | And when Nokia help transition bits of it to provide a fully open platform for use on Nokia (and non-Nokia) devices in the form of Mer; I wonder how anyone can complain about the freedom much. |
| 20:14.26 | javispedro | PaulFertser: oh no, not "it's not truly open" again. Do yo thing we don't know that? It's been repeated for the 52405234th time! |
| 20:14.42 | Jaffa | Milo-: I've never seen that before in my life! :-/ |
| 20:14.43 | PaulFertser | RST38h: lack of portability, also improper priorities. If some hackers want to use it on other devices, nokia won't probably accept the patches because they'd be conflicting with either their "business stratagy" or their "great future plans". |
| 20:14.45 | RST38h | would actually like ot know how he can mass-edit contacts in Fremantle. Is there a file? |
| 20:14.47 | javispedro | s/thing/think |
| 20:15.02 | RST38h | PaulFertser: Who are these "some hackers" and why should I care? |
| 20:15.16 | RST38h | PaulFerster: You are some hacker => you care. |
| 20:15.21 | qwerty12_N810 | /topic Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Maemo-Barcelona Long Weekend - Registrations open - http://tinyurl.com/ydv6p62 | FIRMWARE IS HERE AT LAST! http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php | No, Maemo is no fully open. No, we could not give a shit; GTFO. |
| 20:15.21 | Jaffa | PaulFertser: Well, there haven't been a large number of patches to Maemo; but mine to Hildon Application Manager were accepted; as were qwerty12's |
| 20:15.22 | javispedro | RST38h: there's an API. the file is either a berkeley db or whatever evolution uses these days. |
| 20:15.23 | Stskeeps | PaulFertser: why bother putting a lot of stuff out publically on gitorious if they don't want patches? |
| 20:15.24 | lbt | oi, Jaffa: leave the trolls alone and make fremantle contacts more open |
| 20:15.39 | Milo- | "Using SDK on X86_64 is not supported" :( |
| 20:15.40 | RST38h | javispedro: Any way to export it, then import back? |
| 20:15.42 | derf | RST38h: This channel sounds more and more like tmo every day. |
| 20:15.52 | javispedro | Milo-, SDK works on amd64 fine. |
| 20:15.55 | RST38h | derf: Well, they filter in |
| 20:16.11 | derf | I had hoped it was safe. I've never read tmo for a reason. |
| 20:16.12 | qwerty12_N810 | Jaffa: Hell, the category view in Maemo 5's HAM wouldn't be the same w/out your work |
| 20:16.33 | PaulFertser | lbt: i'm not trolling per se, just trying to understand more about the life by the way of arguing (which is assumed to lead to truth). |
| 20:16.35 | RST38h | javispedro: 'cause I basically need to replace "8" for "+7" in half the numbers |
| 20:16.58 | RST38h | Paul: I do not think you are trying to understand life here |
| 20:17.18 | javispedro | RST38h: dunno, I've never read the actual API itself. I'd guess there should be an easy way to export vcards though. |
| 20:17.18 | PaulFertser | RST38h: well, probably i'm lying to myself but at least i'm being honest. |
| 20:17.21 | RST38h | Proselytizing to the wrong audience, yes, that you do |
| 20:17.38 | RST38h | Paul: Lying to yourself is not being honest |
| 20:18.01 | PaulFertser | RST38h: if i believe my lies myself, it is. |
| 20:18.12 | Milo- | eww |
| 20:18.15 | Milo- | requires dpkg |
| 20:18.41 | lbt | PaulFertser: there's a very fine line between debate and ... other things |
| 20:18.45 | RST38h | Paul: You can make yourself believe that the flame does not burn you, but any medic will readily confirm that you get burned |
| 20:19.12 | lbt | and anyway, my personal needs for contact sync take precedence over anything else I care about right now :) |
| 20:19.17 | RST38h | Paul: So, if you would like ot continue being delusional, that is your right. Just do not get us into this |
| 20:19.38 | javispedro | Milo-: yeah, if you don't want to extract the packages somehow you'll have to build from source. dpkg-deb at least should be easily installable. |
| 20:20.15 | RST38h | (besides, most of us probably heard these arguments a zillion times, so you are being boring) |
| 20:20.34 | PaulFertser | RST38h: but i think that is not about delusions. UNIX was a success exactly because it could run on many different architectures. So was the case with Linux, also it's openness contributed. |
| 20:20.36 | Milo- | just dpkg, gentoo doesn't add unnecessary garbage to the packagenames :) |
| 20:20.59 | Milo- | it's not a problem to compile from sources |
| 20:21.00 | javispedro | Milo-: dpkg-deb is an actual application. |
| 20:21.11 | RST38h | sighs again: UNIX has been developed in AT&T labs, paid by big motherfucking Phone Company, for Cthulhu's sake |
| 20:21.29 | Stskeeps | PaulFertser: i don't dispute that having maemo on multiple devices would be good for the platform. that's what we're trying to move Maemo towards using Mer. |
| 20:21.33 | javispedro | Milo-, it definitely is. To build sbox you'll probably need even more debian tools... |
| 20:21.36 | PaulFertser | But it was given away to the universities for free. And it was portable enough. |
| 20:21.42 | RST38h | You think your MGTS is evil? Well, AT&T is like 3 times more evil than that |
| 20:21.45 | Milo- | debian is evil, mkay |
| 20:21.56 | microlith | ebil |
| 20:22.28 | *** join/#maemo Mousey (n=wtfisme@sea01-v500-nat.marchex.com) |
| 20:22.37 | Jaffa | Milo-: There's a virtual image; or if you isntall Scratchbox you can probably do the rootstraps into it on Gentoo. Dunno, I compiled my own Linux distro once and it wasn't Gentoo ;-) |
| 20:22.40 | PaulFertser | Stskeeps: you're trying. But nokia doesn't seem to really want that or else they've put enough resources long time ago. |
| 20:22.55 | javispedro | Milo-: your problem is installing to Gentoo, not amd64. i'm sure there's some tutorials out there. |
| 20:23.07 | Milo- | javispedro how so ? |
| 20:23.08 | RST38h | Ok. Nokia does not want that. So? |
| 20:23.33 | Milo- | E: CPU transparency method 'qemu-arm-sb' not found. |
| 20:23.35 | PaulFertser | RST38h: so that's the reason "maemo" sucks, i.e. "cool hackers" do not like it for a reason. |
| 20:23.39 | Jaffa | PaulFertser: It's a journey. They're a big company. Maemo is now key to their strategy (and based on where it's come from) and they pay Stskeep to work on Mer and help move Maemo out onto other devices and bring other distros on to their hardware. |
| 20:23.41 | Milo- | whee, next error :) |
| 20:23.55 | RST38h | Paul: Ok, "cool hackers" hate Maemo. Because Maemo sucks them. |
| 20:23.59 | Jaffa | PaulFertser: Trust us, if you really want to learn - and are asking questions by arguing - we know more than you. |
| 20:24.01 | PaulFertser | Jaffa: if it's really the case, that's nice to hear. |
| 20:24.03 | *** join/#maemo BBNS_ (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 20:24.07 | ali1234 | maemo is still better than android |
| 20:24.09 | RST38h | Paul: Why would anyone care? |
| 20:24.20 | ali1234 | plenty of that is closed too |
| 20:24.37 | PaulFertser | ali1234: android is not *nix at all, so it's out of the consideration. |
| 20:24.44 | Jaffa | ali1234: Android SDK and dev tools are better; but Maemo is getting there. High hopes for "SDK for Maemo 6 developers" (compared with the "Maemo 6 platform SDK") |
| 20:24.46 | ali1234 | of course it is |
| 20:24.52 | microlith | PaulFertser: not in the userspace, no |
| 20:24.55 | PaulFertser | RST38h: if you do not care about the fellow developers, well, i'm ok with that. |
| 20:25.05 | RST38h | PaulFertser: WAIT. STOP |
| 20:25.10 | javispedro | well yeah, the user space is pretty unixy. it's not gnu though. |
| 20:25.27 | RST38h | PaulFertser: I care about fellow developers. I care about qwerty12, lcuk, VDVsx, javispedro et al |
| 20:25.34 | PaulFertser | javispedro: the libc is not posix-compatible. There's no X. etc. |
| 20:25.41 | microlith | Jaffa: my working knowlege of GTK/QT development is more readily applicable to Maemo development, that's way better than any SDK :) |
| 20:25.45 | RST38h | PaulFertser: I do not care about your 'cool hackers'. As far as I know, nobody cares about them but you =) |
| 20:25.50 | PaulFertser | RST38h: oh, sorry, my english is too bad to express my thoughts properly. |
| 20:25.56 | Jaffa | microlith: True; that's its one BIG plus point :) |
| 20:26.00 | ali1234 | Jaffa: i really don't like the android sdk, mainly because of eclipse |
| 20:26.07 | RST38h | Cooling down and thinking logically may help =) |
| 20:26.16 | Jaffa | ali1234: Fair enough; welcome to Maemo ;-) |
| 20:26.22 | javispedro | PaulFertser: linux's libc is not posix either, and I guess you knew that. |
| 20:26.36 | Jaffa | likes Eclipse (for all its faults), but then he works with it on a daily basis |
| 20:26.55 | microlith | iirc, isn't Android using uClibc? |
| 20:26.56 | javispedro | s/linux's libc/glibc |
| 20:27.06 | PaulFertser | RST38h: by fellow developers i mean all the developers who work with love and passion. And there's plenty of those in the free software "community". |
| 20:27.10 | ali1234 | microlith: yes |
| 20:27.14 | javispedro | I think android uses Bionic, at least for user space apps. |
| 20:27.18 | RST38h | takes out obligatory brown bag at the mention of Eclipse |
| 20:27.26 | Jaffa | RST38h: yay! :) |
| 20:27.36 | Milo- | I think I have all the depencies now |
| 20:27.39 | Milo- | lets see.. |
| 20:27.42 | Jaffa | goes to have a sit down and a nice cup of tea; and watch FlashForward. |
| 20:27.46 | RST38h | PaulFertser: I can attest for love and passion. I can only observe things people do. |
| 20:28.05 | RST38h | PaulFertser: Now, maybe your loving and passionate developers are really cool, I dunno |
| 20:28.15 | javispedro | hates everyone and has no passion. feel no mercy! |
| 20:28.34 | RST38h | PaulFertser: All I know is that you can't show much stuff they have created |
| 20:28.59 | RST38h | PaulFertser: As for the list I have given above, all I need to do is go to Maemo Downloads and check their stuff |
| 20:29.01 | PaulFertser | RST38h: i think the GNU Project is enough for an evidence. |
| 20:29.06 | *** join/#maemo mikkov1 (n=user@xdsl-83-150-82-126.nebulazone.fi) |
| 20:29.23 | RST38h | Is GNU Project a piece of software? |
| 20:29.26 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 20:29.31 | ali1234 | hell, maemo-extras is enough evidence |
| 20:29.45 | ali1234 | only a very small amount of it was written specifically for maemo |
| 20:29.52 | PaulFertser | RST38h: it's a project to create a Unix-like OS. |
| 20:30.04 | RST38h | Paul: And when can we see such an OS? |
| 20:30.26 | Proteous | damnit amazon, stop lowering the price of the n900 |
| 20:30.37 | RST38h | Proteous: getting close to $370? ;) |
| 20:30.44 | PaulFertser | RST38h: GNU/Linux is here. Unfortunately, Hurd is not exactly successful. |
| 20:30.57 | RST38h | Paul: I know Linux. I do not know GNU/Linux |
| 20:31.14 | PaulFertser | RST38h: hm, strange, what userspace do you use then? |
| 20:31.27 | Shapeshifter | PaulFertser: does it matter |
| 20:31.27 | RST38h | And Linux, as we know it, is only here because huge corporations are paying people to develop its parts. |
| 20:31.31 | Shapeshifter | PaulFertser: no it doesn't. |
| 20:31.32 | Proteous | the magic price where I buy one is higher than that |
| 20:31.35 | RST38h | Paul: Me? I use FreeBSD :) |
| 20:31.47 | ali1234 | hahaha i was just about to say "probably bsd" |
| 20:32.11 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, hate you too. </3 :) |
| 20:32.41 | RST38h | Paul: So, to summarize, "GNU Project" is about putting the GNU tag on somethign other people developed and also developing vaporware for decades |
| 20:32.53 | ali1234 | RST38h: please tell me where i can find a huge corporation for the drivers i wrote? |
| 20:32.54 | RST38h | Paul: Should I remind you about AvtoVAZ again? ;) |
| 20:33.00 | PaulFertser | RST38h: i do not thing this claim is backed up by anything. |
| 20:33.27 | RST38h | Paul: Which claim? |
| 20:33.39 | PaulFertser | RST38h: GNU Project is vapourware |
| 20:34.27 | RST38h | Paul: Do I see Hurd being used in the open? No. |
| 20:34.32 | RST38h | Vaporware then. |
| 20:34.44 | PaulFertser | RST38h: Hurd is only the kernel. |
| 20:34.51 | PaulFertser | RST38h: OS is more that that |
| 20:35.16 | RST38h | Do I see Hurd kernel being used in the open? No. |
| 20:35.19 | RST38h | Vaporware again. |
| 20:35.30 | PaulFertser | wonders who's being a troll here |
| 20:35.31 | RST38h | BTW, I see Linux being used |
| 20:35.32 | PaulFertser | ;) |
| 20:35.34 | ali1234 | this argument is dumb. i want to know where i get my huge-corporation-money please. |
| 20:35.51 | RST38h | But the GNU People page (http://www.gnu.org/people/) does not even mention Linux |
| 20:36.14 | microlith | wonders if RST38h is being serious |
| 20:36.22 | RST38h | microlith: hush ;) |
| 20:36.23 | *** part/#maemo bbigras (n=bbigras@modemcable195.82-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
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| 20:36.49 | kirma | sees his future phone being active and moving around |
| 20:37.02 | kirma | too bad it's not going to move as far as to me before monday :I |
| 20:37.05 | microlith | kirma: not on its own I hope :o |
| 20:37.14 | javispedro | yes, n900 is people! |
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| 20:37.42 | kirma | microlith: UPS tracking... |
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| 20:38.00 | microlith | huh |
| 20:38.12 | microlith | good to see my sept. 3rd preorder is coming up for naught |
| 20:38.46 | kirma | you have evidence of that? :) |
| 20:39.16 | microlith | what, that I placed it or that it's going nowhere? |
| 20:39.18 | kirma | I'm pretty convinced I'm getting the toy on monday - just slightly disappointed they couldn't have started shipping yesterday, would have made here before weekend. |
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| 20:39.59 | kirma | microlith: ehm, parse error. misread you somehow |
| 20:40.02 | Shapeshifter | is expecting his device mid december. |
| 20:40.06 | microlith | I'd like mine before thursday, four days to play with it would be great |
| 20:40.07 | Shapeshifter | -.- |
| 20:40.16 | RST38h | Shapeshifter: next december? |
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| 20:41.28 | Shapeshifter | RST38h: if all goes well >.> |
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| 20:45.46 | ShadowJK | Well, nokia shop fi sort of half-way charged my cc... I hope that means I get it next friday :) |
| 20:46.28 | frals | glad im a swede, dont have to worry about it shipping anytime soon ;) |
| 20:46.49 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 20:47.03 | kirma | shadowjk: did you receive email about it? |
| 20:47.05 | Shapeshifter | forums being entertaining again, from "nyc now shipping" thread: "Ok guys, just got my phone. Here's what I found out from the Nokia store. he nasty woman at the store is the manager." |
| 20:47.05 | ShadowJK | some of the stores in .fi ships to sweden too :) |
| 20:47.07 | ShadowJK | kirma, nope. |
| 20:47.24 | Shapeshifter | *the |
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| 20:47.33 | kirma | Subject: Nokia Online Kauppa Tilausvahvistus <...> |
| 20:48.02 | frals | yeah ShadowJK, but i recon by the time i can get one from a finnish store it should be like a week until it launches here, hopefully ;-) |
| 20:48.11 | frals | otherwise ill just jump on a tallink boat to helsinki :D |
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| 20:48.42 | qwerty12_N810 | Now there's your hardcore N900 fan :p |
| 20:48.50 | ShadowJK | kirma, that's not fair :( |
| 20:49.05 | ShadowJK | how come my visa status says -800 and no order confirmation D: |
| 20:49.40 | kirma | if I were you I'd have called them... already :I |
| 20:49.48 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 20:50.36 | kirma | their phone service is surprisingly helpful, if you ignore the fact they are eager to query names, phone numbers and stuff all the time |
| 20:51.47 | kirma | qwerty12_N810: hardcore fan is the one that jumps from the boat when he figures out it's not available from shop here either |
| 20:52.17 | qwerty12_N810 | kirma: Hehe, I stand corrected |
| 20:53.57 | ShadowJK | well, you can take the boat this weekend to figure out it's not available, and then the next weekend again |
| 20:54.12 | ShadowJK | and then the third weekend, because the first two you enjoyed the beer on the all-you-can-eat-and-drink buffet too much |
| 20:54.19 | ShadowJK | and forgot all about buying n900 |
| 20:55.20 | kirma | tell me about this "all you can drink" buffet place here, I want there too |
| 20:55.43 | kirma | oh, on the boat you meant :) |
| 20:57.46 | ShadowJK | yeah :) |
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| 21:03.57 | hrabbey | Here is a app idea, IF the n900 or other hardware supports it. Have maemo act as a simulated bluetooth headset, allowing pair another cellphone and bluetooth mp3 or maybe a 3rd cellphone and mixing the audio streams together. So can listen to mp3s while still not missing cellphone ringing / tones. |
| 21:04.02 | hrabbey | (Yeah, why bother having another [work] cellphone or another mp3 player... Just cause.) |
| 21:06.09 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=user@83.149.9.24) |
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| 21:07.39 | pupnik_ | you want to listen to music on the phone, while talking |
| 21:07.44 | pupnik_ | next |
| 21:07.54 | kirma | :) |
| 21:08.34 | hrabbey | And record conversations without knowledge? ... ;-) |
| 21:10.45 | GeneralAntilles | Could the -testing idiocy on the lists be more petulant and childish? |
| 21:12.00 | aquatix | hrabbey: now that's a feature i want |
| 21:12.01 | GeneralAntilles | I can't believe the Ovi Store gets first billing and it hasn't even been launched. http://europe.nokia.com/get-support-and-software/product-support/n900/software |
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| 21:13.08 | microlith | they should update their FAQ entry for the N900 regarding MMS |
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| 21:26.31 | wjt | what's the point of the droid fonts being in maemo extras? :) |
| 21:27.12 | GeneralAntilles | wjt, I guess cause they're free and of reasonable quality. |
| 21:27.21 | GeneralAntilles | I don't care for them myself, but to each his own, I suppose. |
| 21:28.01 | wjt | i mean⦠i can only use them in the text editor, right? I can't make the whole UI use them. |
| 21:28.29 | qwerty12_N810 | wjt: Get to hacking the gtkrc of your favourite theme. |
| 21:28.39 | wjt | Now, DejaVu Sans Mono in my terminals, I'm excited about! |
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| 21:29.05 | wjt | mutters about packaging inconsolata |
| 21:29.07 | wjt | qwerty12_N810: a fair point |
| 21:30.02 | Macer | i should try running a vbox in a vbox just to see what happens |
| 21:30.23 | bigbrovar | can anyone here confirm if the inbuilt IM for the N900 supports network proxy .. The one which came with N810 doesnt |
| 21:30.32 | qwerty12_N810 | Macer: Have more fun: VNC in VNC |
| 21:30.44 | Macer | qwerty12_N810: going for that mirror in the mirror effect? :) |
| 21:30.51 | wjt | bigbrovar: for xmpp? sadly not :( |
| 21:30.59 | qwerty12_N810 | Macer: That's the one :) |
| 21:31.10 | Macer | i'm still trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with zimbra talking to gtalk |
| 21:31.25 | Macer | my n810 seems to randomly disconnect from it also.. it's really starting to irritate me |
| 21:31.33 | Macer | it just seems to lose it after a while of working fine |
| 21:31.40 | bigbrovar | wjt: what!! :( so no gtalk, jabber? :S |
| 21:31.45 | Macer | i'm about to check my vbox settings |
| 21:31.58 | wjt | bigbrovar: no, we still didn't get proxy support, sorry :'( |
| 21:32.19 | wjt | â |
| 21:32.29 | bigbrovar | wjt: what about using other IM plugin like msn, yahoo skype? |
| 21:32.47 | GeneralAntilles | Telepathy extras are available in Extras-devel. |
| 21:32.51 | GeneralAntilles | Skype is built-in. |
| 21:33.02 | Jaffa | wjt: Droid Sans Mono in X Terminal is very nice even at small point sizes |
| 21:33.06 | Macer | wow skype is built in? |
| 21:33.07 | wjt | bigbrovar: the extra ones don't explicitly support proxies, but we could probably hack the telepathy-haze ones up to do so |
| 21:33.11 | wjt | yeah! |
| 21:33.13 | Macer | is it the call forwarding skype? or the real skype? |
| 21:33.18 | wjt | it's the real skype |
| 21:33.18 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Yes, the petulance in -testing is very annoying. All this "they" eugh |
| 21:33.25 | wjt | with a telepathy connection manager |
| 21:33.26 | Macer | wjt: wow no kidding. that's pretty awesome |
| 21:33.38 | bigbrovar | GeneralAntilles: my question was whether skype supports proxy |
| 21:33.39 | GAN900 | I need to put Monaco back on here. |
| 21:34.01 | GAN900 | Jaffa, feels like Talk |
| 21:34.35 | GAN900 | Jaffa, I guess these people went so long without anybody interfering in their p. |
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| 21:34.41 | GAN900 | rocess. . . . |
| 21:34.42 | bigbrovar | wjt: wow this is such a deal breaker for me.. I need proxy support :( ... |
| 21:35.07 | bigbrovar | wjt: seems to be an upstream problem? |
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| 21:35.56 | lbt | kicks N900 |
| 21:36.14 | lbt | stupid communications device with no contacts |
| 21:37.02 | bigbrovar | bigbrovar: 40% of the strongest point of the phone is the IM integration.. the thought that non of them work behind a network proxy just .. a let down .. I already pre-ordered one .. |
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| 21:37.46 | bigbrovar | wjt: are u awear of plans to fix this bug? |
| 21:37.49 | ali1234 | the haze (ie libpurple ones) can do, if you hack the .purple config, probably |
| 21:38.19 | ali1234 | even the desktop telepathy client, empathy, does not support proxies |
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| 21:38.43 | bigbrovar | ali1234: yeah I know.. |
| 21:39.06 | bigbrovar | ali1234: and am not sure there are plans to fix that anytime soon :( |
| 21:39.14 | Shapeshifter | finished my first n900 wallpaper. It's way from perfect, but I learned something. http://stuff.moritzg.ch/karaExA.png |
| 21:39.34 | Jaffa | bigbrovar: If the IM doesn't support proxies, I'll vote for the bug if you raise it/point me at it. |
| 21:39.45 | Shapeshifter | it's panorama so it turns around at the end. |
| 21:40.09 | bigbrovar | Jaffa: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718 |
| 21:40.10 | povbot | Bug 718: Supporting Jabber through proxy |
| 21:40.56 | Shapeshifter | replace A with 1-4 to get 4 images. |
| 21:41.34 | bigbrovar | Jaffa: I already voted for it.. this was a big filed since 770 in 2006 |
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| 21:41.56 | ali1234 | of course, i need socks proxy, not http, because my mobile provider blocks outgoing IMs whether they are http method or not |
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| 21:42.06 | Jaffa | bigbrovar: Indeed |
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| 21:42.19 | mdaum | Anybody know how to control the shutter speed on an N900? |
| 21:42.23 | ali1234 | so i need to run socks on localhost |
| 21:42.44 | ali1234 | (voted for it anyway) |
| 21:42.46 | bigbrovar | Jaffa: sad to see it made it to the N900 proxy is very common esp in universities |
| 21:43.23 | mikedep333 | Shapeshifter, I eagerly look forward to having a phone with a scrolling home screen like that |
| 21:43.28 | Jaffa | Of course, the term "deal breaker" is bandied around too often. It comes across too much (certainly on tmo) of people saying "if you don't fix this, I won't buy it - and I don't care about your prioritisation process because it's important to *me*" (of course, here it _is_ important; but it smacks of arrogance now in Maemo circles IMVHO) |
| 21:43.37 | Jaffa | bigbrovar: US universities, I assume you mean. |
| 21:44.05 | bigbrovar | Jaffa: and majority of N900 target audience are students in uni so we should expect a surge in the bug activity in term of votes |
| 21:44.07 | Shapeshifter | mikedep333: I'll make more anime stuff. I haven't even got the phone myself :| |
| 21:44.16 | ali1234 | Jaffa: so we should buy things that don't work? |
| 21:44.25 | javispedro | bigbrovar: get used to it and fix it by yourself. see eduroam. |
| 21:44.26 | Jaffa | ali1234: No |
| 21:44.29 | greenfly | if something is a deal breaker it would probably make sense to confirm whether that particular feature is in place /before/ money is exchanged |
| 21:44.31 | javispedro | s/and/or |
| 21:44.34 | bigbrovar | Jaffa: not just us, and but even most co-operate places |
| 21:44.35 | ali1234 | we should just not say anything then? |
| 21:44.56 | bigbrovar | javispedro: ?! |
| 21:44.57 | VDVsx | remembers Darius and his "think tank" o_0 |
| 21:45.19 | mikedep333 | I'm a university student. my university uses both cisco vpn for wi-fi, and WPA 2 TTLS-EAP PAP |
| 21:45.31 | mikedep333 | I don't believe I can do either of those on my nokia 5800 xpressmusic |
| 21:45.34 | Jaffa | ali1234: My point is that on talk.maemo.org there are people registering just to say "Nokia should do $RANDOM, it's a deal breaker for me!". It's become a cliche, and it's become a cliche because the people doing it are arrogant enough to think a) I care; and b) that their one lost sale (which the "for me") bit emphasises is important. |
| 21:45.47 | greenfly | you could always use the cellular data connection |
| 21:46.06 | ali1234 | Jaffa: if the number of people doing it is so high then maybe you should care? (or *somebody* should) |
| 21:46.11 | Jaffa | ali1234: Now, lots of lost sales are going to be important to Nokia; I was trying to explain why "deal breaker" has entered some people in the Maemo community's lexicon under the "drinking game" category |
| 21:46.20 | Jaffa | ali1234: Each person has a separate one |
| 21:46.37 | greenfly | for some people, some particular UI decision is a "deal breaker" |
| 21:47.14 | greenfly | IMO the difference between the maemo platform and a lot of others is that you actually have a chance to fix your own "dealbreaker" problems |
| 21:47.18 | *** part/#maemo mikkov1 (n=user@xdsl-83-150-82-126.nebulazone.fi) |
| 21:47.21 | javispedro | exactly. |
| 21:47.25 | greenfly | (and without learning Java!) |
| 21:47.39 | javispedro | that's what impressed me about the platform and the single reason I'm still here. |
| 21:48.37 | qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: Not because of the lovely community? *sniff* |
| 21:48.43 | greenfly | heh |
| 21:48.43 | Jaffa | And I've got into trouble before for trying to explain why one bit of the community thinks something, to someone who takes immediate umbrage, and so I'm not in the mood for it now :-/ |
| 21:49.13 | javispedro | qwerty12_N810: I hate you all, I've told you!! ;) |
| 21:49.25 | greenfly | for what it's worth, if your connection allows SSH, you can always set up an SSH tunnel to act as a socks proxy |
| 21:49.39 | qwerty12_N810 | Fine: /ignore javispedro |
| 21:49.43 | ali1234 | greenfly: you can, but telepathy can't use it |
| 21:49.43 | Jaffa | And, the great thing about the Maemo community this evening (random IRC rantage and -testing petulance aside) is that I'm now put off from doing the complex cross-posting thingy I was going to do; and instead go to bed and read and sleep. This is a Good Thing :) |
| 21:49.49 | Milo- | great |
| 21:49.57 | bigbrovar | Jaffa: any idea if pidgin has been ported to the N900 its usually my saving grace |
| 21:50.09 | greenfly | ali1234: or, if your connection allows something like openVPN, you can set up a tunnel to a network that allows what you need |
| 21:50.26 | greenfly | bigbrovar: yeah there's a package either in -devel or -testing |
| 21:50.37 | ali1234 | greenfly: that is exactly what i do (ssh socks proxy) but it only works with pidgin/libpurple and not telepathy/empathy/whatever |
| 21:50.40 | greenfly | no Off The Record support yet, but the main bits are there |
| 21:50.48 | Milo- | sdk-installer fails, if I have scratchbox -service started, tells me to close all scratchbox sessions, and if it's not started, it fails because it has to be started 8D |
| 21:51.04 | greenfly | ali1234: you could set up an openvpn tunnel, perhaps |
| 21:51.16 | greenfly | there's even an applet for it now |
| 21:51.22 | ali1234 | greenfly: i could do but that is several times more complicated |
| 21:51.44 | greenfly | ali1234: well, I agree, the easiest thing is to try to get someone else to set it up :) |
| 21:51.48 | greenfly | but the point is you have options |
| 21:51.53 | Milo- | Check for scratchbox sessions running... |
| 21:51.54 | ali1234 | bad ones :( |
| 21:51.55 | Milo- | E: You must close your other scratchbox sessions first |
| 21:52.09 | greenfly | ali1234: perhaps reconsider your purchase if it's a really big problem |
| 21:52.19 | ali1234 | oh don't worry, i didn't pay for this thing |
| 21:52.41 | bigbrovar | greenfly: Jaffa i would have to really on my 3g for IM part. it would be cool to use wireless but hey .. cant have it all :) .. hope the issue is fixed one day |
| 21:52.50 | Milo- | E: Scratchbox user's /dev is not properly set up. Couldn't read /dev/null. |
| 21:52.51 | Milo- | E: Start scratchbox service with 'sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start'. |
| 21:52.52 | Milo- | 8D |
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| 21:52.59 | ali1234 | i barely use IM on it anyway, i'm more bothered by the fact that the same problem hits me on the desktop |
| 21:53.03 | Milo- | how am I supposed to install it then? 8D |
| 21:53.21 | Milo- | I can't have scratchbox-service STARTED and STOPPED at the same time 8Dd |
| 21:53.26 | ali1234 | but there i can just install pidgin, so meh |
| 21:54.34 | greenfly | I think maemo5 might just be the thing that encourages me to learn python |
| 21:54.39 | ali1234 | Milo-: perhaps create /dev/null manually? |
| 21:54.49 | Milo- | I do have /dev/null ._· |
| 21:54.57 | Milo- | but not in scratchbox's place |
| 21:55.01 | bigbrovar | ali1234: yep .. the good ole pidgin always works .. although lacks the integration and awesomeness of the default IM .. having all ur contacts (gtalk, skype etc) in one place |
| 21:55.02 | ali1234 | Milo-: there's a different one "inside" scratchbox |
| 21:55.16 | ali1234 | bigbrovar: yes, and it sucks on the small screen too |
| 21:55.46 | bigbrovar | ali1234: but i dont think skype would be affected though ( yeah it sucks.. but at least it works :) ) |
| 21:55.46 | greenfly | the integration I'm looking forward to is someone integrating dialcentral (ie. Call from Google Voice) into the main contact list |
| 21:56.27 | ali1234 | Milo-: mknod /scratchbox/dev/null c 1 3 |
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| 21:57.23 | Milo- | why does it upgrade scratchbox each time |
| 21:57.39 | ali1234 | "it?" |
| 21:57.47 | Milo- | the installer.. |
| 21:57.54 | ali1234 | oh. cos it's just a script? |
| 21:58.07 | Milo- | should check if it's already done |
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| 21:58.37 | ali1234 | i think on ubuntu it uses apt to install sbox, so if it's already there, it doesn't do it again |
| 21:58.42 | ali1234 | don't know about anything else |
| 21:59.08 | Milo- | scratchbox is in portage too |
| 21:59.28 | ali1234 | yeah but god knows which version, or if it will still be the same version tomorrow |
| 21:59.41 | Milo- | oh well |
| 22:00.19 | Milo- | great, got further... |
| 22:00.20 | Milo- | ERROR: Scratchbox is not properly set up! |
| 22:00.20 | Milo- | E: Scratchbox command 'sb-conf setup' returned error 0. |
| 22:00.23 | Milo- | 8D |
| 22:01.29 | Milo- | ERROR: Not allowed to run this as root! |
| 22:01.33 | Milo- | ah, no wonder |
| 22:01.43 | Milo- | but the installer is required to be run as a root |
| 22:02.13 | VDVsx | who said that the portrait more ins't in all apps: http://share.ovi.com/album/yerga.Maemo5portraitb |
| 22:02.14 | VDVsx | hihi |
| 22:03.16 | pupnik_ | anybody got a zeemote ? |
| 22:03.37 | woglinde | bye |
| 22:03.41 | *** part/#maemo woglinde (i=woglinde@92.225.4.30) |
| 22:03.53 | qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: Have you had any requests to make BlueMaemo support portrait mode? :p |
| 22:04.26 | VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, not yet |
| 22:04.28 | GeneralAntilles | BlueMaemo doesn't support portrait? |
| 22:04.30 | GeneralAntilles | Deal breaker! |
| 22:04.40 | VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, but some profiles will have portrait at least |
| 22:04.41 | microlith | onoes |
| 22:04.42 | VDVsx | :P |
| 22:05.06 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, BlueMaemo will be the next think tank :P |
| 22:05.37 | RST38h | BlueMaemo also does not send MMSes |
| 22:05.48 | RST38h | Not gonna succeed without MMSes, no... |
| 22:05.51 | qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: WTF |
| 22:06.01 | RST38h | what? 8) |
| 22:06.01 | GeneralAntilles | NOK1A SUX |
| 22:06.03 | qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: I want a refund, now! |
| 22:06.11 | microlith | what do you mean I can't send low rez images at an inflated price?! |
| 22:06.55 | Milo- | how am I supposed to run /opt/scratchbox/tools/bin/sb-conf ? |
| 22:07.05 | VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, sorry you are not eligible for a refund :P |
| 22:07.11 | Milo- | as root it says it can't be ran as root |
| 22:07.23 | *** join/#maemo Flyser (n=flyser@unaffiliated/flyser) |
| 22:07.25 | GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N810, in fact, if you want to send it back you gotta pay. :P |
| 22:07.25 | Milo- | and as regular user, it says no permissions, even though it's chmodded properly :D |
| 22:07.50 | qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: Gah, you Ageist :p |
| 22:08.30 | hexa | for a new app should I use gtk/hildon or QT ? dev guide seems to point to hildon/gtk.. but i'm confused with qt being maybe the future on maemo ? |
| 22:09.15 | VDVsx | hexa, do you know both ? |
| 22:09.52 | hexa | VDVsx, got more exp with glib but never really touched gtk.. so I guess neither.. |
| 22:10.23 | hexa | VDVsx, but I don't want to recode my gui in a year... |
| 22:10.59 | VDVsx | hexa, IMHO Qt isn't ready yet for maemo5, there's some limitations, so you've to choose :D |
| 22:12.26 | hexa | VDVsx, humm any doc on those limitations somewhere? |
| 22:12.44 | Milo- | seriously? how is this supposed to be run as regular user? |
| 22:12.45 | Milo- | Traceback (most recent call last): |
| 22:12.45 | Milo- | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:12.45 | Milo- | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:12.45 | Milo- | OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied |
| 22:12.54 | VDVsx | hexa, probably, 1 sec |
| 22:13.06 | Milo- | it makes a system call to chroot, which can only be accessed as root |
| 22:13.19 | lbt | Milo-: you do know how sbox works? |
| 22:13.29 | Milo- | yes, creates a chrooted environment |
| 22:13.33 | lbt | intercepting system calls etc |
| 22:13.34 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (n=geaaru@host114-28-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 22:13.34 | Milo- | it's a sandbox, sort of |
| 22:13.58 | lbt | allowing it to divert calls to binaries of it's own choosing |
| 22:14.02 | Milo- | lbt but I cannot install it, since it doesn't let me run the command as regular user |
| 22:14.06 | Milo- | and it can't be ran us root |
| 22:14.08 | lbt | playing fakeroot-like games |
| 22:14.24 | lbt | *nod* |
| 22:14.31 | VDVsx | hexa, some here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4_Hildon/Qt_Hildon_Widgets |
| 22:14.51 | lbt | it's a very complex system.... not 'just an application' |
| 22:15.03 | hexa | VDVsx, great thx :) I'll take a look |
| 22:15.17 | lbt | you need to install it as the devs intended... |
| 22:15.28 | VDVsx | hexa, there's probably more and some of the stuff there is already outdated since last maemo-Qt release |
| 22:15.54 | hexa | VDVsx, yeah it's ok I'll search some more myself.. just wanted to get the feeling of the devs here... |
| 22:15.58 | VDVsx | hexa, but if you have doubts, the people at #qt-maemo can help for sure |
| 22:15.59 | hexa | VDVsx, thx :) |
| 22:16.09 | hexa | VDVsx, ho good to know :) |
| 22:16.22 | lbt | hexa: for me.... Qt |
| 22:16.32 | lbt | but it isn't quite ready |
| 22:16.56 | lbt | OTOH if you're learning... it'll be ready by the time your first app is ready for extras |
| 22:17.49 | hexa | lbt, :) that's kinda was I was wondering :) so we're taling like 6 months not 2 years... |
| 22:17.52 | Macer | damn. charlzie theron looks horrible in monster |
| 22:17.58 | lbt | less |
| 22:17.59 | Macer | those crazy make up artists can do anything |
| 22:18.13 | *** join/#maemo uhsf (n=uhsf@modemcable228.151-57-74.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 22:18.17 | hexa | lbt, k :) even better ,, I don't think I'll make it in less then 4.. |
| 22:18.24 | lbt | my guess is <3 months before Qt apps will be accepted into extras |
| 22:18.34 | Macer | is like |
| 22:18.40 | Macer | the n900 out yet? :) |
| 22:19.11 | hexa | lbt, nice :) I'll really consider it then |
| 22:19.19 | lbt | hexa: I'm not even sure that you *can't* put Qt in extras today. Core Qt is on the shipping image |
| 22:19.37 | lbt | must push Shopper |
| 22:19.56 | Mek | with a beta qt4.6 in extras-devel promoting stuff without also promiting that qt4.6 beta would be hard though... :) |
| 22:20.07 | hexa | lbt, but regardless of the distribution... the point is will I be able to do something comparable to hildon /gtk.. in like 3-6 months with qt.. |
| 22:20.15 | lbt | Mek: yes, I'm not up to date... :) |
| 22:20.30 | lbt | hexa: you can do that already |
| 22:20.47 | *** join/#maemo TomaszD (n=Tomasz@unaffiliated/tomaszd) |
| 22:20.48 | lbt | or do you mean personal learning curve |
| 22:21.05 | hexa | lbt, nah I meant qt status... nice :) |
| 22:21.20 | lbt | Qt status is pretty much 1st class already |
| 22:21.25 | hexa | guess I'll go qt then :) |
| 22:21.41 | TomaszD | lbt looks like we'll meet again |
| 22:21.46 | ali1234 | how does the n900 backup tool work for "application list?" does it just save the list, and then install them again using apt? |
| 22:21.47 | lbt | :) |
| 22:22.10 | lbt | ali1234: think so... |
| 22:22.20 | lbt | TomaszD: I'm not accepted yet |
| 22:22.22 | ali1234 | is it gonna break when my custom repo is not available? |
| 22:22.24 | hexa | lbt, is there still something like a liscence to pay to do qt apps or something or is it all free now btw ? .. /me a bit out of date on it.. |
| 22:22.32 | lbt | ali1234: yes |
| 22:22.34 | ali1234 | i guess i'll find out in a minute... |
| 22:22.42 | lbt | hexa: all LGPL |
| 22:22.48 | TomaszD | lbt, but anyone can come, you're talking about sponsorship? |
| 22:22.49 | tKMFDM | ali1234, i also makea repo list |
| 22:22.53 | hexa | lbt, k :) |
| 22:22.55 | lbt | TomaszD: yes |
| 22:22.55 | tKMFDM | i thought |
| 22:22.56 | tKMFDM | or not |
| 22:23.14 | ali1234 | i think i'll just start again anyway |
| 22:23.25 | lbt | ali1234: :) |
| 22:23.37 | ali1234 | does anyone know of a program for winmob which adds bluetooth contact sync without doing it one vcard at a time? |
| 22:23.43 | lbt | hasn't flashed yet as I wanted to sync my contacts |
| 22:23.48 | TomaszD | lbt still got your Mer business card somewhere lol |
| 22:23.57 | lbt | TomaszD: framed I hope! |
| 22:24.13 | ali1234 | i don't have anything to sync contacts with except my winmob phone which doesn't support contact syncing with anything but outlook, which i dont have |
| 22:24.16 | TomaszD | of course, and bathed in golden leafs |
| 22:24.26 | lbt | heh |
| 22:24.45 | lbt | we should find a printer to setup to do them for team members |
| 22:25.17 | TomaszD | anyways, I'll be contacting you once I get there to look for ice cream |
| 22:25.33 | lbt | <grin> I look forward to it |
| 22:25.34 | TomaszD | and kebab |
| 22:26.30 | TomaszD | it's gonna be great. I wonder why Stskeeps isn't coming :P |
| 22:26.47 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 22:27.18 | GeneralAntilles | Indeed |
| 22:27.20 | GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps! |
| 22:27.27 | TomaszD | he's asleep |
| 22:27.34 | lbt | TomaszD: have to ask him ... maybe time? |
| 22:27.49 | *** join/#maemo lcukn900 (n=user@82.132.139.166) |
| 22:27.52 | lbt | right |
| 22:27.55 | TomaszD | and I should be sleeping too, I've got a rally to attend to tomorrow |
| 22:27.55 | lbt | needs sleep |
| 22:28.03 | TomaszD | gotta wake up at 5 :( |
| 22:28.12 | lbt | heh g'night all |
| 22:28.17 | lcukn900 | really needs sleep |
| 22:28.20 | lcukn900 | gnite lbt |
| 22:28.24 | lbt | leaves machine building |
| 22:28.27 | TomaszD | gnite all |
| 22:28.28 | lbt | night lcukn900 |
| 22:28.37 | qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: So, instead, you come on IRC? =) |
| 22:29.33 | *** join/#maemo homeasvs_ (n=thomas@252.241-246-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 22:30.26 | *** part/#maemo simula (n=mark@209.189.194.130) |
| 22:30.26 | lcukn900 | is gonna write a scratchbox bible |
| 22:30.42 | lcukn900 | and nail that sucka once and forall |
| 22:32.08 | pupnik_ | mmh should be a nice night to try wlan |
| 22:32.48 | javispedro | The Scratchbox bible in one sentence: you prayed the wrong god. |
| 22:33.09 | lcukn900 | wlan works great. i even found out last night ive got a great dongle with master mode |
| 22:33.26 | lcukn900 | lol javis |
| 22:34.00 | qwerty12_N810 | notes to never buy books authored by javispedro... they are anything but value for money |
| 22:34.13 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, did you tried the app ? :D |
| 22:34.34 | javispedro | qwerty12_N810: not my book! not my book! I'm just reviewing someone else's. |
| 22:34.55 | qwerty12_N810 | OK, OK, I take that back :p |
| 22:35.01 | javispedro | thanks. |
| 22:35.22 | javispedro | writes a book about android fonts and ensures qwerty12_N810 will get a copy. |
| 22:35.25 | derf | qwerty12_N810: What are you talking about. The full text of his book was published online for free. |
| 22:35.48 | lcukn900 | would buy javiss book "opengl into the vertex" |
| 22:36.38 | qwerty12_N810 | derf: Lemme just go and put on my "Dunce" hat... |
| 22:36.57 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 22:37.20 | lcukn900 | id vote for android font book |
| 22:37.45 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, refreshing. . . . |
| 22:38.10 | qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: It must have "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" |
| 22:38.42 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, repository is still trashed. |
| 22:39.15 | javispedro | The lazy dog jumps over the quick brown fox, ok. |
| 22:39.49 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, works here |
| 22:40.03 | *** join/#maemo simula (n=mark@209.189.194.130) |
| 22:40.25 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, ups, actually doesn't work :p |
| 22:40.27 | GeneralAntilles | Akamai |
| 22:41.17 | qwerty12_N810 | Someone should upload a "make-the-fucking-repository-work" package and dch -i each time it messes up |
| 22:41.42 | javispedro | the fact that's not standard debian would be tomorrow's dealbreaker |
| 22:43.23 | SpeedEvil | I want slackware on my phone personally. |
| 22:43.46 | javispedro | I want Haiku. Which IRC channel do I invade? |
| 22:43.56 | javispedro | other than this one, of course :) |
| 22:44.03 | pupnik_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:44.16 | pupnik_ | howdo i quit openarena? |
| 22:45.28 | *** join/#maemo digitalstimulus_ (n=digitals@cpe-071-077-144-145.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:46.41 | lcukn900 | is pullin up home. bbl o/ |
| 22:48.01 | javispedro | bye lcuk |
| 22:48.03 | javispedro | ouch. |
| 22:50.17 | uhsf | have you seen the nokia n900 ad, i thought it was weird but kinda cool |
| 22:50.32 | *** join/#maemo ArSa (n=ArSa@173-25-26-173.client.mchsi.com) |
| 22:50.40 | *** join/#maemo sjaensch (n=sj@mgdb-4db8c5ff.pool.mediaWays.net) |
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| 22:55.08 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 22:56.10 | uhsf | i hate engadget so much, they always have to piss on everything linux and they're just retarded apple sellouts |
| 22:56.55 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=Valerio@Maemo/community/council/VDVsx) |
| 22:57.20 | *** join/#maemo Tuco11 (n=Tuco1@208.253.160.244) |
| 22:59.37 | *** join/#maemo eightace (n=rooms@host86-154-187-87.range86-154.btcentralplus.com) |
| 23:00.38 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 23:08.35 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: not coming cos of thesis |
| 23:12.16 | GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, blah blah blah. |
| 23:15.41 | *** join/#maemo solarion (n=solarion@atomaton.nhn.ou.edu) |
| 23:17.39 | *** join/#maemo viq (n=viq@unaffiliated/viq) |
| 23:18.31 | *** join/#maemo alehorst1 (n=alehorst@189.58.4.134.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 23:19.34 | *** join/#maemo RXrenesis8 (n=Adium@208.201.247.13) |
| 23:19.49 | GeneralAntilles | RXrenesis8! |
| 23:20.55 | RXrenesis8 | mwah! |
| 23:21.10 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 23:27.28 | *** part/#maemo MrGoose (n=cache@5ac515c3.bb.sky.com) |
| 23:28.37 | *** join/#maemo BBNS_ (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 23:31.27 | *** join/#maemo RXrenesis81 (n=Adium@208.201.247.13) |
| 23:31.33 | *** part/#maemo cwong1 (n=chatzill@nat/intel/x-iowuklixszfcvspm) |
| 23:31.45 | *** join/#maemo cure` (i=cure@rzavelli.demon.nl) |
| 23:38.57 | javispedro | Dear Nokia, Please also include a pony with the N900, or else I'm not going to buy it. |
| 23:39.01 | *** join/#maemo promulo (n=romulo@189.71.47.200) |
| 23:40.11 | uhsf | unless they ever make an unlocked gsm n900 it's still just another suck phone |
| 23:42.07 | greenfly | uhsf: ? the n900 is gsm and is unlocked |
| 23:42.48 | uhsf | anyway it's not available in canada |
| 23:42.51 | GeneralAntilles | uhsf, er, yeah, what greenfly said. |
| 23:42.58 | GeneralAntilles | It's not really available anywhere, yet. |
| 23:43.00 | *** join/#maemo trickie (n=trickie@86.93.227.181) |
| 23:43.06 | GeneralAntilles | Except for two flagship stores in the US. |
| 23:43.23 | ds3 | are list prices available for the US (legit, nongraymarket)? |
| 23:43.26 | lcuk | javispedro, including a piny would make the box a bit bigger and require additional FCC checks and air holes and stuff |
| 23:43.54 | javispedro | dealbreaker! |
| 23:43.57 | greenfly | lcuk: too bad, if Nokia doesn't include it, they will be out a few hundred bucks |
| 23:44.21 | greenfly | which will take down their entire global operation |
| 23:44.25 | uhsf | everywhere it's like nokia n900 now shipping to america. give me a f* break usa doen't mean america |
| 23:45.06 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, $649 direct from Nokia. |
| 23:45.23 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, Amazon has it for $479.99 with a $50 register-for-Ovi mail-in-rebate. |
| 23:45.24 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@95.141.187.81.in-addr.arpa) |
| 23:45.29 | wiretapped | n900 *does* include a pony, rtfm n00b |
| 23:45.50 | GeneralAntilles | uhsf, nobody said "america". |
| 23:45.55 | GeneralAntilles | uhsf, and it's not SHIPPING here. |
| 23:46.08 | wiretapped | I've used two n900's now |
| 23:46.13 | wiretapped | still don't know where i'm buying mine |
| 23:46.28 | greenfly | the n900 is barely available in the flagship cities in the US, much less those states and definitely not in the rest of the US |
| 23:46.31 | GeneralAntilles | uhsf, the two flagship stores in the US, apparently, got about 200 units apiece and have started selling them to people on the waitlist. |
| 23:46.40 | GeneralAntilles | uhsf, so either chill out or leave. |
| 23:46.58 | *** part/#maemo uhsf (n=uhsf@modemcable228.151-57-74.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 23:47.08 | GeneralAntilles | Hey, ho, it worked! |
| 23:47.09 | microlith | hey I think this place just got better |
| 23:47.17 | GeneralAntilles | puts the banhammer back up on the mantle. |
| 23:47.29 | ds3 | GA: thanks. |
| 23:47.58 | *** join/#maemo trickie (n=trickie@86.93.227.181) |
| 23:48.06 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, you ought to rip out the internals for your infernal machine. :P |
| 23:48.12 | javispedro | this is not helping my chances of getting a DDP pony! |
| 23:48.46 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=rsalveti@189.115.172.195) |
| 23:48.54 | *** join/#maemo asdm (n=qwerty32@CPE001ad62f17c3-CM001868e79a36.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 23:48.57 | GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, you aren't going to DDP, by the way? |
| 23:49.31 | asdm | I have a N770 I enabled usb host mode and installed Carman app and i plugged in the USB OBD reader to the N770 its registers at address5 but i think the porgram only reads bluetooth devices |
| 23:49.31 | asdm | is there a way i can make the usb look like a bluetooth device to n770 |
| 23:49.42 | wiretapped | I'd like to get the DDP |
| 23:49.43 | *** join/#maemo RXrenesis8 (n=Adium@208.201.247.13) |
| 23:49.49 | wiretapped | but i haven't got a reply |
| 23:49.56 | wiretapped | just got the first mail saying i qualified |
| 23:50.21 | GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, you check the eStore? |
| 23:50.34 | GeneralAntilles | I didn't get any email, either, but the N900 suddenly appeared on the website. |
| 23:50.38 | wiretapped | just when i signed up |
| 23:50.40 | wiretapped | oh |
| 23:50.41 | wiretapped | hmm |
| 23:50.43 | wiretapped | checking now |
| 23:50.50 | GeneralAntilles | https://pro.forum.nokia.com/productList.do |
| 23:51.14 | Milo- | hmm, http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=327217 I'm getting exactly the same error, but I don't have vdso enabled in my kernel and therefore vdso cannot be disabled by echoing.. |
| 23:51.31 | GeneralAntilles | lol, N75 for â¬240.54 or N900 for â¬250. |
| 23:51.32 | wiretapped | nope, N75 is the only device available to me there :( |
| 23:51.32 | GeneralAntilles | Hrm |
| 23:51.36 | GeneralAntilles | logged in? |
| 23:51.39 | wiretapped | yeah |
| 23:51.40 | GeneralAntilles | Try reloading a couple time. |
| 23:51.51 | Milo- | and even though the date is from nearly 2 years ago, I'm trying to install maemo5-sdk, and that fails with exactly the same message |
| 23:51.54 | Milo- | any help? |
| 23:51.56 | GeneralAntilles | You Forum Nokia matches your maemo.org username, presumably? |
| 23:52.19 | javispedro | Milo-, you don't have vdso? are you exactly sure? |
| 23:52.25 | javispedro | s/vdso/randomized vdso |
| 23:52.34 | wiretapped | no my maemo.org username is just my first name and that was already taken, so my forum nokia name is my email address (same email used for maemo.org) |
| 23:52.44 | Milo- | searched kernel and it says VDSO=n |
| 23:52.52 | GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, and when you emailed the DDP address you indicated such? |
| 23:53.20 | *** join/#maemo cvandonderen (n=quassel@ikben.in) |
| 23:53.22 | wiretapped | yeah |
| 23:53.25 | Milo- | I assume it's "Compat VDSO support" |
| 23:53.26 | GeneralAntilles | Hrm, odd. |
| 23:53.27 | ds3 | GA: if the 3G modem is unlock.... |
| 23:53.27 | Milo- | and that I have disabled |
| 23:53.31 | GeneralAntilles | Well, I'd suggest emailing them again. |
| 23:53.54 | Milo- | oh |
| 23:54.03 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, unlocked as in the carrier subsidy definition or not-a-blackbox definition? |
| 23:54.04 | Milo- | glibc adds randomized VDSO |
| 23:54.06 | Milo- | did not know that |
| 23:54.06 | ds3 | what is annoying is almost every ~4" screen device with a fast ARM has at least one fatal flaw :( |
| 23:54.13 | javispedro | Milo-: Compat VDSO support is exactly what you need to _enable_ |
| 23:54.15 | ds3 | GA: subsidy lock |
| 23:54.27 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, they don't sell it subsidized through any carrier in the US as of yet. |
| 23:54.30 | GeneralAntilles | So, yes, it's unlocked. |
| 23:54.33 | Milo- | javispedro oh, I thought I needed to _disable_ it :o |
| 23:54.34 | ds3 | Oh |
| 23:54.37 | RXrenesis8 | â¬250, that's only $370... wow |
| 23:54.48 | GeneralAntilles | (At that $479.99 price, by the way) |
| 23:55.00 | ds3 | the sales guy at the TMO store hints they may pickup the N900 |
| 23:55.07 | Milo- | javispedro I need to enable it so I can disable it? :) |
| 23:55.08 | javispedro | Milo-: disable randomized vdso (which is what compat vdso does) |
| 23:55.12 | Milo- | ah |
| 23:55.19 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, so the rumors say, but I'm guessing that'll be next year some point. |
| 23:55.26 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, for now they're all free and clear. ;) |
| 23:55.27 | javispedro | Milo-: did you build sbox? |
| 23:55.33 | Milo- | yes |
| 23:55.35 | Milo- | login fails |
| 23:55.40 | GeneralAntilles | RXrenesis8, you can get cool discounts, too, when you become a cool cat. :P http://maemo.org/profile/list/ |
| 23:55.44 | ds3 | GA: problem is, my N800 is on its last legs and I need a hand held device |
| 23:55.53 | ds3 | so if I get one, it will not be torn apart |
| 23:55.58 | javispedro | Milo-: in which case you may want to patch sbox's used glibc with |
| 23:56.07 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, get two! :P |
| 23:56.14 | javispedro | Milo-: http://lists.scratchbox.org/pipermail/scratchbox-devel/2009-August/000457.html |
| 23:56.21 | ds3 | GA: the other thing is the TMO guys won't tell me a straight story on if my current dataplan SIM will work |
| 23:56.26 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, well, as an N800 owner from day 1, I can nothing but recommend the N900. |
| 23:56.32 | GeneralAntilles | (been using it since September on AT&T) |
| 23:56.43 | GeneralAntilles | ds3, Web'n'Walk? |
| 23:56.46 | ds3 | GA: does it have the 2 SD slots i.e. is it crippled like the N810? |
| 23:56.54 | GeneralAntilles | 1 microSD slot |
| 23:56.58 | GeneralAntilles | But it has 32GB built-in |
| 23:57.00 | pupnik_ | anybody see what cpu load pulse audio typically takes for speaker playback - always 17-18%? |
| 23:57.01 | GeneralAntilles | So not as bad as it seems. |
| 23:57.11 | ds3 | oh 32G...how much of that 32G is usable? |
| 23:57.30 | GeneralAntilles | 2GB is used for application installation space, 768MB for swap and the rest is free. |
| 23:57.32 | ds3 | is it like the 2G inside the 810? where 80%+ is used from day one |
| 23:57.36 | Milo- | javispedro is that a patch to glibc or the scratchbox-toolchain-*-glibc? |
| 23:57.45 | pupnik_ | i just figured one could implement a 0.5ms delay to get a 1000hz notch filter |
| 23:57.45 | GeneralAntilles | Well, um, there'll be some number of cached Ovi Maps maps in there, too. |
| 23:57.48 | GeneralAntilles | But those can be removed. |
| 23:57.53 | pupnik_ | or maybe an inverted qms delay |
| 23:57.56 | pupnik_ | 1ms |
| 23:57.58 | javispedro | Milo-: scratchbox-core/libs. |
| 23:58.09 | javispedro | not any of the toolchains. |
| 23:58.43 | javispedro | basically search for rtld.c somewhere in the sbox "core" tarball and patch that |
| 23:58.53 | ds3 | if I can get 16G free, I can tolerate it |
| 23:59.27 | pupnik_ | start filming video and watch it fill up |
| 23:59.59 | pupnik_ | the video isnt as wavy as with cheap phones, quite nice |
