| 00:00.14 | GAN900 | I bound the spacebar |
| 00:00.27 | johnx | ugh. can't cope with reading landscape |
| 00:00.31 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N900 (n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12) |
| 00:00.39 | GAN900 | which works well enough for paging if you keep the keyboard open slightly. |
| 00:00.45 | GAN900 | No, portrait. |
| 00:00.54 | johnx | actually, the patch I want is syncable bookmarks |
| 00:01.45 | GAN900 | I'd love to have my reading position synced across multiple devices. |
| 00:01.54 | johnx | yes |
| 00:01.59 | johnx | that's what I mean |
| 00:02.16 | johnx | though bookmarks that aren't necessarily the latest place you are in the book would be kinda nice too |
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| 00:02.47 | hrw | hi |
| 00:02.53 | GAN900 | Meh, I read fiction in FBReader. |
| 00:02.56 | GAN900 | Hi, hrw. |
| 00:03.11 | johnx | hey hrw |
| 00:03.12 | hrw | is maemo5 upgradable by "apt-get update;apt-get upgrade" or only total reflash is an option? |
| 00:03.28 | johnx | hrw, the former: no, the latter: no |
| 00:03.41 | w00t_ | it has a seperate upgrader tool afaik |
| 00:03.50 | johnx | I guess their graphical apt frontend does something a little different than apt |
| 00:03.55 | hrw | w00t_: NSU is one thing, upgradability is other |
| 00:04.21 | w00t_ | i wasn't talking about NSU, obviously |
| 00:04.22 | johnx | but most 3rd party apps can be upgraded safely by apt-get upgrade |
| 00:04.24 | hrw | w00t_: symbian phones use NSU to upgrade FW but some keeps user data (PIM for example) when some do not |
| 00:04.37 | qwerty12_N900 | NSU is total shit, anyway. flasher-3.5 kicks its ass |
| 00:04.39 | hrw | johnx: that part I know from os2005/6/7/8 |
| 00:04.57 | johnx | hrw, and it's the same for maemo5/n900 |
| 00:05.23 | hrw | johnx: sure, but I asked about nokia part of FW not 3rdparty packages |
| 00:05.30 | GAN900 | hrw, SSU |
| 00:05.43 | GAN900 | or 'Maemo Update' now, I guess. |
| 00:05.55 | w00t_ | SSU it is, I just found it |
| 00:06.09 | johnx | hrw, and I answered you. nokia stuff: you need to use their graphical tool, not apt-get upgrade -or- you can reflash with flasher3.5 or NSU |
| 00:06.55 | GAN900 | Some confusion over 'graphical tool', I think. |
| 00:06.59 | hrw | GAN900: thx, so like it is with os2008 then |
| 00:08.55 | Shapeshifter | huh the ti emulator is brilliant |
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| 00:10.23 | Shapeshifter | in the vid archebyte did, I find it interesting that pulse is using so much CPU. I would actually not mind just having ALSA and no pulse, not having sound in more then one app at a time. |
| 00:10.57 | Shapeshifter | why is pulse using like 16% cpu, just because it's playing back music. Wasn't playing anything else at the time. |
| 00:11.04 | GeneralAntilles | hrw, mostly, though I think the updates may be coming more regularly. |
| 00:11.07 | Shapeshifter | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URsNHguzHoI this is the video I meant. |
| 00:11.36 | Shapeshifter | I also don't hear any sound from the youtube video he's playing back. |
| 00:12.50 | hrw | ok |
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| 00:13.27 | hrw | anyway still have to wait until nokia will ship device |
| 00:14.35 | johnx | heh, though even before that we can already confirm that more than one person with a pre-release n900 has made it unbootable (not bricked of course) through an apt-get upgrade ;) |
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| 00:15.20 | GeneralAntilles | Think that has more to do with Extras-devel, however. |
| 00:15.42 | johnx | GeneralAntilles, is that where the kernel update showed up briefly? |
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| 00:16.08 | GeneralAntilles | There were some system libs in there, too. |
| 00:16.33 | GeneralAntilles | I'll run some testing once I have a public FIASCO image. |
| 00:16.48 | johnx | is there any way to capture the image NSU downloads? |
| 00:17.09 | GeneralAntilles | Probably, but I think they locked it down after the Symbian stuff kept getting cracked. |
| 00:17.34 | johnx | I'd know how to do it in linux (by sitting on whatever filehandle it uses to store the file), but I don't know on windows ... |
| 00:18.04 | hrw | johnx: use wireshark and try to recreate fetching session |
| 00:18.24 | crashanddie | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=377404&posted=1#post377404 |
| 00:18.24 | qwerty12_N900 | johnx: Navifirm |
| 00:18.29 | crashanddie | I'd like him to come back from that one |
| 00:18.53 | GeneralAntilles | ohgod |
| 00:18.56 | GeneralAntilles | Religion on Talk? |
| 00:19.25 | w00t_ | ..just when you thought it couldn't get worse |
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| 00:20.10 | GeneralAntilles | It's almost as bad as when that troll asserted that Texrat and I would very happily fight a religious war in Iraq for Nokia. |
| 00:20.23 | crashanddie | hey! |
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| 00:20.32 | w00t_ | GeneralAntilles: you *wouldn't*? |
| 00:20.36 | w00t_ | is shocked. |
| 00:20.37 | crashanddie | I'm a gentle troll, my arguments have good basis |
| 00:20.54 | pupnik | crashanddie is far from stupid |
| 00:21.09 | johnx | can this seal the deal in terms of personal 'ignore thread' button? along with pulling off-topic out of the righ-hand active threads column ... *and* putting threads that have gone off-topic into off-topic? |
| 00:21.09 | GeneralAntilles | wasn't asserting crashanddie is an idiot. |
| 00:21.14 | GeneralAntilles | Well, maybe, but that's not my point. :P |
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| 00:21.43 | pupnik | i think we need maemo dieties |
| 00:21.51 | pupnik | like 25 |
| 00:21.56 | crashanddie | dieties? |
| 00:22.01 | crashanddie | as in small diets? |
| 00:22.03 | GeneralAntilles | Dietees? |
| 00:22.03 | pupnik | and GAN has to be one |
| 00:22.05 | crashanddie | or deities? |
| 00:22.11 | pupnik | demigods |
| 00:22.18 | pupnik | dei |
| 00:22.20 | johnx | crashanddie, not a big fan of counter-trolling (mostly because I don't have the energy for it), but that is some class-A stuff :) |
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| 00:22.34 | Robot101 | demagogues? |
| 00:22.40 | johnx | dietess? |
| 00:22.50 | GeneralAntilles | I want my power to be making a loud squealing noise come out of the computer of anyone who irritates me. |
| 00:22.52 | crashanddie | johnx, thanks, I'm pretty big on bashing brainless religious people |
| 00:23.02 | pupnik | demagogue would be penguinbait |
| 00:23.11 | pupnik | jk |
| 00:23.13 | crashanddie | johnx, that being said, as I asserted in the post, I have been brought up as a Christian |
| 00:23.17 | pupnik | :) |
| 00:23.49 | pupnik | i just want to see a real old phart star by ppls names on t.m.o |
| 00:23.52 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, so you're the one behind breaking the fan on my laptop? |
| 00:24.01 | johnx | crashanddie, yup. christian or catholic schooling I expect? |
| 00:24.09 | crashanddie | johnx, nope, public |
| 00:24.11 | GeneralAntilles | Urg |
| 00:24.17 | GeneralAntilles | I love the second bit you quoted, crashanddie. |
| 00:24.28 | johnx | crashanddie, interesting. that's a lot of bible study in your free time then |
| 00:24.48 | GeneralAntilles | I can handle religious types, but you got to love the ones who take it to One True Religion town. |
| 00:25.27 | GeneralAntilles | I only wish Nostradamus had a dogma. |
| 00:26.00 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, Nostro's dogma was "Just say shit the whole time, you're bound to hit the jackpot once, and then people will go: Oh shite, maybe the old fool was right after all" |
| 00:26.04 | crashanddie | and stay vague, too |
| 00:26.17 | GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, just like the Bible? |
| 00:26.18 | johnx | aka, the consultant's dogma :D |
| 00:26.37 | crashanddie | I'm a consultant you wanker |
| 00:26.46 | johnx | ducks :> |
| 00:26.54 | GeneralAntilles | gooses. |
| 00:27.15 | johnx | I'm a wanker you consultant. Don't drag me down to your level :D |
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| 00:27.57 | crashanddie | though, I have to say, Nostradamus was pretty much spot on for 911 |
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| 00:28.43 | crashanddie | well |
| 00:28.49 | johnx | the bible was more like that campfire activity where you say a couple lines of the story, then pass it on to the next guy |
| 00:28.55 | crashanddie | actually, just reading it, the version I read before was FUD and re-written |
| 00:29.24 | johnx | but in between each "pass" you had to wright it down, let it sit for a couple hundred years, then have it translated a couple times, *then* the next guy could write his part |
| 00:29.38 | crashanddie | wright? |
| 00:29.42 | crashanddie | that's a new mix mate |
| 00:29.45 | johnx | rong? :) |
| 00:29.57 | crashanddie | cwite |
| 00:30.20 | SpeedEvil | johnx: Also - some translations of source material are more official because they were done hundreds of years ago |
| 00:30.31 | SpeedEvil | 'suffer the little children' |
| 00:30.39 | SpeedEvil | Does _not_ mean today what it once meant |
| 00:31.13 | johnx | SpeedEvil, yeah, I can't stand my little cousins either. wait, what? |
| 00:31.38 | SpeedEvil | King james translation 'Mark 10:14 Suffer the little children to come unto me and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of God.1' |
| 00:31.49 | SpeedEvil | In this sense it means 'allow' |
| 00:31.54 | SpeedEvil | Or permit |
| 00:32.05 | crashanddie | pretty much spot on now still |
| 00:32.21 | qwerty12_N900 | johnx: Then, it meant to throw a rock on them; now, it means to use a flamethrower on them |
| 00:32.26 | crashanddie | "You nasty little prat, if you don't behave I'll have you suffer church on sunday!" |
| 00:32.34 | johnx | qwerty12_N900, ah. thank you professor |
| 00:32.58 | johnx | suffer the little children. suffer them right in the face! |
| 00:33.29 | crashanddie | johnx, sounds strangely inviting and compeling |
| 00:33.51 | crashanddie | and there we go, going the perv route again |
| 00:34.30 | johnx | it was more along the lines of a punch in the face. anything pervy was on your side of the screen |
| 00:34.34 | Shapeshifter | right. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CFbwqyZQF0 |
| 00:35.14 | crashanddie | wow, I have a ratio of 1.46 on TMO |
| 00:35.17 | crashanddie | (thanks/posts) |
| 00:35.24 | Shapeshifter | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_G9awnDCmg this one's also brilliant |
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| 00:44.26 | crashanddie | Shapeshifter, you kinda killed the conversation with your turd eating videos |
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| 00:58.36 | Klowner | I got to touch a N900 today, can't wait to get mine |
| 00:58.45 | Klowner | makes squealy noises |
| 00:59.09 | MaceN8x0 | how was it? |
| 00:59.19 | Klowner | sexy |
| 00:59.38 | MaceN8x0 | fast? |
| 00:59.58 | Klowner | at the nokia store in chicago, the lady at the front of the store said they had none, but I asked again and they had one hidden in a drawer and I got to fiddle with it |
| 01:00.10 | Klowner | and like, 3 people came in during that time and asked if they had any N900s |
| 01:00.22 | johnx | that's crazy |
| 01:01.05 | Klowner | it was pretty fast, I was impressed by the screen |
| 01:01.22 | MaceN8x0 | Klowner, im in chicago! |
| 01:01.29 | Klowner | it's quite small, but the resolution is crazy |
| 01:01.31 | johnx | i'm mostly impressed that 3 other people were looking for one at the same time |
| 01:01.32 | MaceN8x0 | so which store was it? |
| 01:01.40 | Klowner | MaceN8x0: the one on michigan ave. |
| 01:01.41 | johnx | I think Nokia might have vastly underestimated how popular this thing would be |
| 01:02.36 | Klowner | MaceN8x0: they have none for sale, but they might let you see the one if you're real nice |
| 01:02.41 | MaceN8x0 | too downtown for me |
| 01:03.50 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, they ALWAYS underestimate EVERYTHING about Maemo. |
| 01:05.46 | johnx | eh. I bet they were close on the actual numbers for the maemo4 devices. I bet they guessed the dev/user ratio wrong though (underestimating the appeal to users) |
| 01:06.17 | GeneralAntilles | From everything I've heard about that timeframe, I'd disagree. |
| 01:06.33 | GeneralAntilles | I think Nokia has consistently underestimated Maemo |
| 01:06.56 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, look at the bandwidth fiasco during November 2007. |
| 01:07.08 | Klowner | they said they should have them for sale within a couple weeks |
| 01:07.09 | johnx | no one ever gets bandwidth projections right |
| 01:07.16 | Klowner | hopefully amazon ships mine before then |
| 01:07.26 | GeneralAntilles | Then there's statements from Nokia people about sales numbers. |
| 01:10.37 | johnx | I have a feeling that the underestimation WRT the N900 is going to be of a whole different order of magnitude |
| 01:11.14 | GeneralAntilles | Sure, but I don't believe their estimation has been accurate at any point. |
| 01:11.21 | GeneralAntilles | Which is where I disagree with you. |
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| 01:13.30 | johnx | nah, we probably agree for the most part, just in different words :) |
| 01:14.07 | johnx | I should have said, "I bet they were *closer* with their n8x0 projections than their n900 projections" |
| 01:15.19 | GeneralAntilles | I hope the dinosaurs at Nokia die off or retire RSN. |
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| 01:16.37 | johnx | I really hope to see maemo on some more reasonably priced phones/devices |
| 01:16.51 | johnx | that's the biggest thing in my mind |
| 01:17.16 | GeneralAntilles | $399? |
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| 01:17.31 | johnx | GeneralAntilles, $250 maybe? |
| 01:17.38 | GeneralAntilles | Ups |
| 01:18.04 | johnx | $250 is getting closer to the "poor linux hacker" price range |
| 01:18.05 | GeneralAntilles | Hrm, maybe in a year or two. |
| 01:18.34 | GeneralAntilles | When did the N900 hit $200? Summer 2008 or so? |
| 01:18.40 | GeneralAntilles | Er |
| 01:18.43 | GeneralAntilles | s/9/8/ |
| 01:18.56 | johnx | n800? yeah, summer 2008 I thought |
| 01:19.03 | johnx | easy enough to check from forum posts |
| 01:19.48 | GeneralAntilles | Removing the accessories from the N900 isn't going to drop the price particularly drastically |
| 01:21.09 | johnx | ah, you mean the IR/FM/WiFi? |
| 01:21.29 | GeneralAntilles | Can't drop WiFi |
| 01:21.38 | johnx | ... |
| 01:21.41 | GeneralAntilles | Cellular-only Maemo would be expensive. |
| 01:21.56 | johnx | you can do a lot of things when you're not aiming at hackers anymore |
| 01:22.18 | GeneralAntilles | WiFi isn't THAT expensive, anyway. |
| 01:22.19 | johnx | which, BTW, is a *good* thing (a multi-device strategy I mean) |
| 01:23.00 | johnx | nothing is really expensive on its own |
| 01:23.05 | johnx | except maybe the screen... |
| 01:23.13 | johnx | anyways, all just off-the-wall thoughts. It sounds like they want to keep it high-end for some time to come |
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| 01:49.35 | SD69 | javispedro: ping |
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| 01:58.23 | b-man17 | yawns |
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| 03:03.38 | Thephilosopher | ? |
| 03:03.47 | Thephilosopher | everybody is sleeping ? |
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| 03:05.13 | Thephilosopher | yep |
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| 03:22.22 | MaceN8x0 | hm |
| 03:24.25 | beford|n810 | hi |
| 03:26.03 | Thephilosopher | hi |
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| 04:12.25 | GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, ping? |
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| 05:59.07 | dmj7261 | hi zaheerm |
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| 06:27.26 | shuduo | anyone know where I can download maemo 5 SDK tar ball? i need it for my fedora since no dpkg to install from installer script |
| 06:30.18 | Gummi | shuduo: http://www.forum.nokia.com/Tools_Docs_and_Code/Tools/Platforms/Maemo/ |
| 06:32.12 | shuduo | gummi: yes, i can see installer script download only after i click "Download the Maemo 5 SDK" |
| 06:32.23 | shuduo | gummi: but i can't find tar ball.. |
| 06:32.43 | Gummi | ah |
| 06:33.06 | Gummi | I'm not sure if they provide anything more than this installer script.. |
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| 06:37.23 | RST38h | Mhm...christexaport went all religious on tmo |
| 06:37.33 | RST38h | The End must be near indeed |
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| 06:53.23 | shuduo | gummi: just found the script provides command line parameter to install sdk by downloading tar ball.. :D thanks |
| 06:53.41 | Gummi | heh... no prob |
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| 06:59.21 | recalcati | good morning, I'm trying to solve an usb mouse problem |
| 06:59.58 | recalcati | it is qt related, but in qt embedded mailing list nobody answers to my question |
| 07:00.03 | tekojo | morning |
| 07:00.35 | tekojo | recalcati what exactly? |
| 07:00.35 | recalcati | I mean: qt can manage input event mouse event or not ? |
| 07:01.49 | tekojo | recalcati, what are you trying to do? Qt does a lot of things |
| 07:01.50 | recalcati | I'm getting crazy, because with cat /dev/input/event2 | hexdump I see events. I did ln -s /dev/input/event2 /dev/mouse |
| 07:02.15 | recalcati | then I start strace -e open,read ./deform -qws |
| 07:02.36 | tekojo | Now how is that related to Qt? |
| 07:02.48 | recalcati | so I see it open that device, but, when I move the mouse, I have continuous error |
| 07:03.51 | recalcati | somebody told to use tslib with module raw input, but I'm not able to understand if qt is using tslib really, how to increase the verbosity of qt? |
| 07:04.28 | mikhas | you are doing something completely wrong I think |
| 07:04.51 | mikhas | qt widgets provide all the necessary mouse event handlers you need |
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| 07:05.30 | recalcati | it is sure, but, I use normally qt with LinuxTp hanldler, and is good, instead from usb mouse I'm not able to make it working |
| 07:05.58 | recalcati | mikhas: it is not qt-x11 , it is qt on fb |
| 07:06.07 | mikhas | ah |
| 07:06.17 | mikhas | well then I have no idea =) |
| 07:07.21 | recalcati | but I wrote the input event hanlder for qt on fb for touchscreen events (input event), maybe qt on fb and usb mouse is not a common solution |
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| 07:17.16 | adeus | sdas |
| 07:17.27 | adeus | lag |
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| 07:31.52 | lamojola | How likely is Maemo5 looking for N800? |
| 07:31.56 | *** join/#maemo trickie (n=trickie@94.100.112.225) |
| 07:32.05 | dmj7261 | not at all |
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| 07:32.25 | lamojola | So it's Mer? |
| 07:32.30 | dmj7261 | Maemo 5 has a lot of features that simply can't work on the n800 |
| 07:32.36 | lamojola | :) |
| 07:32.38 | lamojola | funny |
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| 07:32.40 | dmj7261 | Mer will work on n800 |
| 07:32.44 | lamojola | ok |
| 07:32.55 | lamojola | Does Mer have an SDK? |
| 07:33.11 | dmj7261 | The plan is for Maemo 5 features that will work on n8x0 to be backported |
| 07:33.24 | Termana | lamojola, don't diss mer by talking down on it. it's bringing maemo 5 to older devices and eventually maemo 6 as well |
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| 07:33.31 | dmj7261 | I don't know. I don't even have an nxx0. |
| 07:33.31 | zchydem_work | recalcati: I guess you can use tslib for getting touchscreen events for Qt/fb? |
| 07:33.44 | thomastim | juego de boxeo online http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html |
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| 07:34.10 | lamojola | I'm not dissing Maemo5. It's Nokia that I'm laughing at. Seems they've had a funny way about doing business, using the community, etc. |
| 07:34.17 | lamojola | or Mer |
| 07:34.25 | lamojola | Not dissing Mer |
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| 07:35.30 | L0cutus | re |
| 07:35.32 | lamojola | Serious question here. Is the CPU from N800 so much different from the proposed N900 that the kernel won't run? |
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| 07:38.01 | luke-jr | lamojola: proposed N900? |
| 07:38.10 | lamojola | OK N900 sorry |
| 07:38.23 | luke-jr | you mean N800 kernel on N900 or N900 kernel on N800? |
| 07:39.24 | luke-jr | ... |
| 07:39.46 | lamojola | luke-jr, As an x86 machine, I can reasonably compile the same kernel from a more advanced CPU as long as it stay 32bit, etc. |
| 07:39.52 | recalcati | zchydem_work: I'm trying , but I'm not able to verify if I'm using really tslib, how to investigate? |
| 07:40.01 | luke-jr | lamojola: not really. |
| 07:40.16 | luke-jr | lamojola: if you compile your kernel for Pentium, it won't boot on a standard i586 |
| 07:40.30 | recalcati | I have changed /etc/ts.conf as explained in http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.6-snapshot/qt-embedded-pointer.html |
| 07:40.38 | luke-jr | N800 is ARMv6 architecture (think i586); N900 is ARMv7 (think i686) |
| 07:40.56 | dmj7261 | Does anyone know of a way to make scratchbox use opengl es 2.0? |
| 07:40.59 | luke-jr | so the N800 kernel will be happy with the N900 CPU, but not vice-versa |
| 07:41.03 | recalcati | N900 is ARMv7 , not i686 |
| 07:41.14 | luke-jr | the bigger problem you will hit is hardware components |
| 07:41.19 | recalcati | but is powerful, more more than N800 |
| 07:41.27 | luke-jr | the N900 kernel will not include support for N8x0 hardware, nor vice-versa |
| 07:41.51 | recalcati | zchydem_work: I have changed /etc/ts.conf as explained in http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.6-snapshot/qt-embedded-pointer.html |
| 07:41.56 | luke-jr | all that said, I'm not aware of any reason to run N8x0 kernel on N900 nor the N900 kernel on N8x0 |
| 07:42.12 | luke-jr | it's not like they're significantly different in terms of what they provide userland |
| 07:42.52 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (n=crashand@SecuraBit/listener/crashanddie) |
| 07:43.39 | lamojola | luke-jr, I see, yet given that, Nokia should be able to provide a new Maemo OS for each older product with a recompile for the specific target architecture. I realize they won't, but I'm asking just the same--seeing if it's physically possible. |
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| 07:45.19 | GeneralAntilles | lamojola, N800 support is not included in current kernel builds. :) |
| 07:45.22 | lamojola | Side question here, what proprietary binaries are left still, and do they have plans to rid those and replace them with opensource? |
| 07:45.25 | GeneralAntilles | Hardware support would need to be ported. |
| 07:45.27 | luke-jr | lamojola: the userland differs too much |
| 07:45.43 | GeneralAntilles | lamojola, do you believe Nokia would choose not to provide Maemo 5 for OMAP2 devices if it were easy? :) |
| 07:45.53 | GeneralAntilles | lamojola, it's a non-trivial endeavor, unfortunately. |
| 07:45.56 | luke-jr | lamojola: afaik, N900 relies on more proprietary blobs than N810 does. |
| 07:46.09 | GeneralAntilles | Largely due to the hardware differences between the two platforms. |
| 07:46.11 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, not true. |
| 07:46.23 | luke-jr | lamojola: supposedly Nokia is getting 3D acceleration drivers for N8x0 for Mer to use |
| 07:46.34 | GeneralAntilles | lamojola, what you want to look at is Mer. |
| 07:46.35 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: no? I count 2 blobs requires for N810 |
| 07:46.36 | GeneralAntilles | ~mer. |
| 07:46.37 | infobot | methinks mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer |
| 07:46.37 | GeneralAntilles | ~mer |
| 07:46.38 | infobot | it has been said that mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer |
| 07:46.48 | luke-jr | required* |
| 07:47.07 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: N900 has what? battery charger and phone stack at least. |
| 07:47.24 | luke-jr | I know there were more |
| 07:47.42 | GeneralAntilles | Cellular stack isn't a blob. |
| 07:47.43 | lamojola | GeneralAntilles, I foresee Nokia taking off with each new hardware platform, potentially being a predator to a loyal programming community having to buy a new Nokia gadget each time. |
| 07:47.50 | GeneralAntilles | The modem is a blackbox. |
| 07:48.07 | GeneralAntilles | lamojola, then you're clueless. :) |
| 07:48.20 | lamojola | GeneralAntilles, enlighten me. |
| 07:48.27 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: everything phone-related on the main CPU is open? |
| 07:48.32 | GeneralAntilles | Nokia's putting a lot of effort into helping Mer. |
| 07:48.47 | GeneralAntilles | Which is going to be the upgrade path for existing device owners. |
| 07:48.49 | luke-jr | lamojola: that's about right, to some degree. |
| 07:49.04 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: Nokia began refusing to fix N810 bugs about a year ago at least |
| 07:49.13 | GeneralAntilles | The simple reality is that supporting current owners with an official upgrade isn't economically feasible. |
| 07:49.39 | GeneralAntilles | Maemo is still a young platform without a lot of manpower behind it. |
| 07:49.42 | luke-jr | the simple reality is that Nokia's blobs prevent us current owners from fixing their bugs |
| 07:49.46 | recalcati | GeneralAntilles: I remember some eula I had to accept when installing sdk on my pc, but I don't know what are about |
| 07:49.48 | GeneralAntilles | So supporting a lot of legacy hardware simply isn't a realistic option. |
| 07:50.08 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, "Nokia's" blobs? :) |
| 07:50.14 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, Nokia doesn't own the blobs. |
| 07:50.17 | lamojola | GeneralAntilles, I'd say the Maemo community built this end of Nokia, so I don't see how you give them credit. Yes, of course they'll seed some resourcing, like seeding capital. Again, I'm curious, just trying to have a discussion with you folks, but I'm skeptical about this future trend of product "leap frogging". |
| 07:50.20 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, you want them opened, you talk to TI. |
| 07:50.41 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: I have no pull with TI, I bought the hardware from Nokia. |
| 07:50.44 | GeneralAntilles | lamojola, how long have you been a member of this community? |
| 07:51.58 | GeneralAntilles | I've been here since very nearly the beginning, and I can tell you that the level of commitment Nokia has shown for this community is quite simply unprecedented in the history of mobile devices. |
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| 07:52.30 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: you know, I have to agree with that. |
| 07:52.42 | luke-jr | I haven't seen any other vendor do as much as Nokia has. |
| 07:52.48 | dmj7261 | How so? Can you give a newcomer examples of this commitment? |
| 07:52.50 | luke-jr | but it's still insufficient |
| 07:53.00 | luke-jr | dmj7261: latest example is the 3D accel for N8x0 |
| 07:53.10 | GeneralAntilles | Yes, there are a lot of things they've done wrong and, no, they're not perfect. I'm usually right out in front of the shouting crowd when they make a misstep, but you have to give credit where credit is due. |
| 07:53.14 | dmj7261 | es 2.0 accel? |
| 07:53.15 | lamojola | GeneralAntilles, I don't remember when I registered with Maemo, but I figure I've owned a 770 since the beginning, so how long is that? Besides, I wouldn't credit duration with any analysis, clever or not. I'm just taking a look, and as luke-jr said, we have no pull with TI. Nokia has a choice indeed when going to the draft. They can choose to put opensource as much as my PC runs 100% opensource. |
| 07:53.27 | luke-jr | dmj7261: don't know if it's 2.0. whatever the chip supports |
| 07:54.13 | dmj7261 | 2.0 would be awesome: I'm making a forum topic right now about 3D engine candidates. |
| 07:54.13 | luke-jr | I never understood the point of the 770. The Zaurus had better hardware years earlier. |
| 07:54.13 | GeneralAntilles | dmj7261, codewise? Getting the STLC45xx specs for the open WiFi driver on N8x0, getting 3D drivers for N8x0, open sourcing many of their own components, and relicensing others for redistribution. |
| 07:54.42 | lamojola | GeneralAntilles, however mobile devices are quite new. Nokia was one of the first with such thrust, but history doesn't exist much in this arena. It's too new and with too few competitors. |
| 07:54.43 | GeneralAntilles | lamojola, the mobile device market doesn't even begin to compare with the PC market. :) |
| 07:55.21 | dmj7261 | You don't have as much opportunity for DIY frankenmobiles |
| 07:55.43 | dmj7261 | is using a fairly beefy frankenputer. |
| 07:55.49 | GeneralAntilles | dmj7261, community wise, two paid-for Maemo Summits, with 100s of people sponsored to attend, several other smaller meetups with more sponsorships |
| 07:55.58 | GeneralAntilles | Loaner devices for community people |
| 07:56.03 | *** join/#maemo warp10 (n=warp10@beeseek.org) |
| 07:56.07 | GeneralAntilles | Discount programs for every device release. |
| 07:56.28 | GeneralAntilles | Financing maemo.org and its 6 paid staff members |
| 07:56.50 | GeneralAntilles | Employing additional community-focused positions @ Nokia. |
| 07:57.08 | GeneralAntilles | dmj7261, oh, and you know TI's recent big moves towards open source? |
| 07:57.11 | GeneralAntilles | With OMAP3 especially? |
| 07:57.13 | lamojola | GeneralAntilles, I'm not sure what you meant with your last statement to me. Compare what? |
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| 07:57.42 | GeneralAntilles | lamojola, you can't bring up the PC market as an argument for why you think mobile devices should be just as open. |
| 07:57.48 | GeneralAntilles | lamojola, the markets simply don't compare. |
| 07:57.54 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: meetups and loaners do nothing for those of us left out, so.. bad examples :p |
| 07:57.56 | dmj7261 | TI's moves to open source? |
| 07:58.00 | GeneralAntilles | lamojola, the mobile market is lightyears ahead of where it was just 5 years ago. |
| 07:58.15 | luke-jr | discount programs based on flawed criteria leaves a bad taste, too |
| 07:58.16 | GeneralAntilles | (In a large part thanks to Nokia's efforts, in fact) |
| 07:58.22 | GeneralAntilles | dmj7261, OMAP35x, Beagle Board, etc. |
| 07:58.36 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, :shrug: |
| 07:58.45 | dmj7261 | 5 years ago not one mobile could pass my "Is it like my desktop" criteria |
| 07:58.48 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, you had months of time to code up a karma plug-in for IRC. |
| 07:59.12 | GeneralAntilles | dmj7261, TI's worlds more open source friendly now than they were when Nokia used the OMAP1 in the 770. |
| 07:59.24 | dmj7261 | That's good. |
| 07:59.24 | GeneralAntilles | This is in a BIG way thanks to Nokia's efforts. |
| 07:59.47 | mikhas | anyone wants some popcorn? I am enjoying this read. |
| 07:59.53 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, don't bring your spitefulness in here, it's not productive. |
| 08:00.06 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, you could've applied to attend the Summit. |
| 08:00.12 | lamojola | GeneralAntilles, Again, new, but then again IBM's BIOS was new too till some hacks cracked it, and we have clones, more open. Everything evolves. As long as hardware manufactures continue to be in bed with closed-source hardware components our drive becomes that much more cumbersome and delayed at progress. |
| 08:00.35 | GeneralAntilles | lamojola, Nokia's pushing hard to get vendors to be more open. |
| 08:00.41 | GeneralAntilles | lamojola, but it's not a process that happens over night. |
| 08:00.44 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: hey, I probably wouldn't be getting one with or without a discount. just pointing out flaws in those arguments :P |
| 08:00.48 | mikhas | lamojola, I dont think I ever had a truly open PC, whatever that is. |
| 08:01.01 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: and even if everything was paid, I could not have gone to any Summit |
| 08:01.03 | GeneralAntilles | lamojola, nor is it a process served well by hardline zealotism. |
| 08:01.11 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, what flaws? |
| 08:01.27 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, you think giving out 300 devices at the Summit is not a valid argument to show Nokia supports the community? |
| 08:01.39 | luke-jr | 1. meetups only benefit a small portion of the community |
| 08:01.52 | Xisdibik | GeneralAntilles: they needed to give 301. 300 at summit 1 in the mail to me ;) |
| 08:01.53 | GeneralAntilles | lamojola, the fact is that Nokia's been working incredibly hard to push your goals with vendors |
| 08:02.02 | luke-jr | 2. criteria-based discounts have an inverse effect when the criteria is bad |
| 08:02.10 | GeneralAntilles | lamojola, so decrying them for their efforts is pretty low. |
| 08:02.11 | dmj7261 | The N900 doesn't pass the 100% FOSS test. That said, the more they make FOSS, the more I'll be impressed. |
| 08:02.28 | lamojola | mikhas, Really? Most PC (not laptops) don't have a problem. |
| 08:02.29 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, so you think contributors to the Maemo community don't deserve discounts? |
| 08:02.57 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, 400 people is a pretty big chunk of the contributing portion of this community. |
| 08:02.57 | mikhas | lamojola, so you have an open BIOS, an open wifi card, open GPU? I am impressed, really. |
| 08:03.09 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: I think discount programs need to be done in a way that doesn't leave people out with a bad taste |
| 08:03.09 | dmj7261 | Does it count as free if you don't know how free the BIOS is? |
| 08:03.11 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, and the productive efforts that have come out of the Summits are always impressive. |
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| 08:03.28 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, but you need to separate your spite out here, because it's currently making this discussion highly unproductive. |
| 08:03.39 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, everybody thinks they deserve things. |
| 08:03.42 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: again, this doesn't apply to me personally. |
| 08:03.47 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, you can never make everybody happy. |
| 08:03.50 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, it does. |
| 08:03.52 | luke-jr | I wouldn't buy one even if I had a discount. |
| 08:04.42 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: Freescale's developer programs seem much more reasonable IMO |
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| 08:04.57 | dmj7261 | I would be much happier and coding happily for Maemo if Nokia gave me a developer discount and a prerelease unit. I haven't made any finished apps though, so I understand that they wouldn't. |
| 08:05.01 | GeneralAntilles | Anyway, whatever. |
| 08:05.03 | luke-jr | nobody can really complain with their methods |
| 08:05.06 | GeneralAntilles | I've said my piece, take it or leave it. |
| 08:05.22 | mikhas | the grass is much greener on the other side, eh? |
| 08:05.29 | GeneralAntilles | dmj7261, proven contributors always take precedence. :) |
| 08:05.37 | luke-jr | dmj7261: *and*? you want 2 N900s at discount? :P |
| 08:05.44 | dmj7261 | Shall we compare Nokia's efforts to Apple's? |
| 08:05.52 | dmj7261 | ? |
| 08:05.56 | GeneralAntilles | dmj7261, just look at the stick rate for GSoC students to see why giving out free hardware like that doesn't work. |
| 08:05.58 | mikhas | yes, please |
| 08:05.59 | Termana | apple ftw fool |
| 08:06.04 | lamojola | GeneralAntilles, I'm not decrying. I'm observing. Hardware manufactures make choices. The Asus Eee isn't that much bigger than the 770/8x0, given the removal of the keyboard, ports, LCD, SSD, etc. Think about it. |
| 08:06.04 | Termana | lol j/k |
| 08:06.05 | mikhas | start, I get more popcorn |
| 08:06.10 | luke-jr | dmj7261: I think OpenMoko set the standard pretty high on openness? :p |
| 08:06.20 | GeneralAntilles | lamojola, think about what? |
| 08:06.26 | GeneralAntilles | lamojola, it's a vastly different hardware platform. |
| 08:06.31 | dmj7261 | I'm a GSoC student. |
| 08:06.34 | Termana | get me some mikhas |
| 08:06.37 | GeneralAntilles | lamojola, fact is, the N900 is the MOST OPEN mainstream cellular device to date. |
| 08:06.40 | GeneralAntilles | lamojola, think about it. |
| 08:06.47 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: OpenMoko |
| 08:06.49 | lamojola | dmj7261, you mean http://www.coreboot.org/Welcome_to_coreboot |
| 08:06.51 | GeneralAntilles | MAINSTREAM |
| 08:07.00 | luke-jr | mainstream is irrelevant |
| 08:07.01 | GeneralAntilles | i.e., hardware and software that aren't useless. |
| 08:07.09 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, good troll. |
| 08:07.10 | GeneralAntilles | 'night |
| 08:07.15 | Termana | isn't the droid argueably more open? |
| 08:07.17 | luke-jr | mainstream just means idiots on the street buy them |
| 08:07.23 | luke-jr | Termana: is it? |
| 08:07.31 | mikhas | and it means profit |
| 08:07.37 | dmj7261 | Open source =/= open platform |
| 08:07.56 | dmj7261 | and android has closed apps too. |
| 08:08.02 | luke-jr | mikhas: if you involve profit, then I want Vendor to pay me per hour for time I spend improving their device's usability :p |
| 08:08.03 | Termana | luke-jr, i could be wrong but i was under the impression android is totally open source |
| 08:08.10 | dmj7261 | and likely closed drivers for each phone |
| 08:08.27 | luke-jr | Termana: yeah, way wrong |
| 08:08.27 | mikhas | sure, move to helsinki =p |
| 08:08.27 | dmj7261 | not sure about the driver thing |
| 08:08.36 | luke-jr | Termana: but I don't know which of Android and Maemo is more open |
| 08:08.40 | Xisdibik | GeneralAntilles: goodnight :/ |
| 08:08.49 | dmj7261 | The totally open android versions would be equivalent to Mer. |
| 08:08.54 | luke-jr | Maemo is certainly more standards compliant (Qt, X11 compliant) |
| 08:09.06 | luke-jr | dmj7261: Mer isn't 100% open |
| 08:09.08 | dmj7261 | Maemo wins hands down on open platform |
| 08:09.16 | dmj7261 | what parts are closed? |
| 08:09.22 | luke-jr | Maemo isn't very open, relatively. |
| 08:09.35 | Termana | android sucks anyway, but i just thought it was more open. it certainly seems to be more mainstream than maemo |
| 08:09.39 | luke-jr | dmj7261: Mer requires closed blobs for anything Maemo has closed in areas of hardware support |
| 08:09.53 | dmj7261 | so Mer just has closed drivers? |
| 08:09.59 | luke-jr | I think. |
| 08:10.10 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (n=murrayc@dslb-084-056-008-254.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:10.12 | Stskeeps | luke-jr: :slap: 100 percent open core, may have closed blobs (fw, battery daemons, etc) on some hw. |
| 08:10.17 | *** join/#maemo sleipnir (i=3e501154@gateway/web/freenode/x-cihaaortapucgcbu) |
| 08:10.18 | dmj7261 | No closed applications or essential libraries? |
| 08:10.27 | *** join/#maemo petur (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 08:10.32 | luke-jr | Stskeeps: core is the driver layer, not DE. |
| 08:10.38 | luke-jr | dmj7261: afaik, none of those |
| 08:10.47 | Termana | slaps Stskeeps for the hell of it - yello |
| 08:10.49 | luke-jr | drivers are all I care about being open, really. |
| 08:10.58 | Stskeeps | core mer is everything non-hw specific :P |
| 08:10.59 | dmj7261 | okay, then that's open in my book. My desktop uses Nvidia blobs |
| 08:11.00 | luke-jr | I can rewrite the software layer if need be |
| 08:11.07 | Xisdibik | someone highlight me so i can test something please |
| 08:11.11 | luke-jr | dmj7261: fail |
| 08:11.14 | *** join/#maemo inmaploui (n=user@216.41.255.123.static.snap.net.nz) |
| 08:11.19 | luke-jr | Xisdibik: no |
| 08:11.19 | *** join/#maemo asolsson (n=asolsson@esprx02x.nokia.com) |
| 08:11.31 | Xisdibik | luke-jr: thanks |
| 08:11.33 | dmj7261 | I don't want to be stuck running metacity in vga mode |
| 08:11.36 | lamojola | GeneralAntilles, you asked how long I was in the Maemo community, but I'm just curious if you work for Nokia because it sounds like it. The point I made by comparing the Asus Eee to the 770/8x0 was in weight alone. Strip down an Asus Eee (early model), and one nearly has the same with probably more power. |
| 08:12.09 | luke-jr | dmj7261: vanilla Linux supports ATi and Intel graphics fine |
| 08:12.11 | dmj7261 | If a manufacturer doesn't release the source for their drivers, I expect them to work damn well. |
| 08:12.18 | Termana | GA went to bed |
| 08:12.39 | Termana | i think |
| 08:12.47 | Xisdibik | he did as far as i know Termana |
| 08:13.00 | dmj7261 | This computer was built before I was a Linux user...that and Intel needs better performance and ATI needs to step up their FOSS driver efforts. |
| 08:13.41 | lamojola | mikhas, I'm missing the reference to Helsinski above. |
| 08:14.10 | *** join/#maemo inmap (n=jdm@216.41.255.123.static.snap.net.nz) |
| 08:14.16 | Termana | lamojola lost his man |
| 08:14.19 | Termana | pages |
| 08:14.19 | dmj7261 | If ATI produces a performance card with top-notch FOSS linux drivers, I'll switch. |
| 08:14.40 | luke-jr | dmj7261: as opposed to nVidia who make NO efforts? |
| 08:14.56 | luke-jr | and require you to infringe on Linux copyrights and run blobs? |
| 08:15.06 | lamojola | dmj7261, I've been out of the gaming loop for a while, so ATI doesn't have FOSS for the high-end cards? |
| 08:15.11 | Termana | i guess no one likes jokes in the middle of a flame war |
| 08:15.11 | dmj7261 | If I can reasonably use FOSS for a given task I will. |
| 08:15.24 | dmj7261 | Their 3D support can lag by months in the FOSS drivers |
| 08:15.43 | luke-jr | I've been using ATi for about a decade with no problems. |
| 08:15.54 | sleipnir | at least there are some open docs for _some_ of their (ATI) cards |
| 08:16.23 | lamojola | Termana, I didn't feel a flame war. These are some serious concerns. I don't want to be a consumer puppet for a large corporation, going to the big-kiddie candy store everytime I want to code with my other friends. |
| 08:16.27 | GAN900 | lamojola, I don't work for Nokia. :) I'm a community member and former community council member who served for a year. |
| 08:16.53 | Termana | luke-jr, not making your drivers open instead making them blobs doesn't violate any linux copyright |
| 08:17.04 | dmj7261 | Like I said, if they release comparable FOSS drivers near release to Nvidia's, I'd love to go to ATI |
| 08:17.09 | GAN900 | lamojola, if you want to support open source mobile devices, buy the N900. :) |
| 08:17.21 | Termana | luke-jr, i think you need to rephase what you said |
| 08:17.22 | lamojola | dmj7261, Do you know why it's months and not instant? |
| 08:17.23 | luke-jr | Termana: it does when they're kernel-level |
| 08:17.41 | GAN900 | Then call Nokia Care and tell them why you bought thye N900. |
| 08:17.46 | luke-jr | Linux only has exceptions to the GPL for userland |
| 08:17.58 | dmj7261 | It takes time for the FOSS people to understand the docs and implement drivers for them. |
| 08:18.18 | Termana | i don't think adding in a module is necessarily modifying it |
| 08:18.20 | Stskeeps | meh, at least the kernel drivers are full oss |
| 08:18.26 | Stskeeps | which is a huge step forward |
| 08:18.38 | Termana | modifying the kernel that is |
| 08:18.49 | luke-jr | Termana: Linux is a monolithic kernel. there is no such thing as kernel-land without being derived from Linux itself |
| 08:18.54 | dmj7261 | On the bright side, if Nvidia ever does open source their linux drivers we can expect instant quadros for windows boxen. |
| 08:18.58 | luke-jr | Stskeeps: it makes them legal |
| 08:19.05 | luke-jr | they *had* to do that |
| 08:19.27 | Termana | luke-jr, so i guess what nokia has done is illegal as well? |
| 08:19.28 | Xisdibik | GAN900: werent you going to sleep? :P |
| 08:19.39 | luke-jr | Termana: Nokia's drivers are in userland, at least with N900 |
| 08:19.52 | luke-jr | Termana: Linux clearly makes exceptions on userland interfaces |
| 08:20.03 | lamojola | GAN900, that's such a suggestive statement with no backing. How does N900 help the other older devices that are quickly becoming toxic waste with Nokia eager to fill the void with a shiny new one, N1000, etc. |
| 08:20.04 | GAN900 | Xisdibik, got a text message from a drunk friend and checked XChat. |
| 08:20.10 | dmj7261 | ATI has a golden opportunity here |
| 08:20.24 | GAN900 | lamojola, we went over this earlier. |
| 08:20.26 | GAN900 | Mer |
| 08:20.50 | Xisdibik | quickly goes and preorders the N1000 |
| 08:20.51 | luke-jr | dmj7261: most people buy video cards every N years, not every N months. |
| 08:20.59 | luke-jr | a few months lag for drivers is no big deal |
| 08:21.00 | lamojola | dmj7261, Sounds reasonable though, no? |
| 08:21.05 | dmj7261 | I buy every n years as well |
| 08:21.26 | GAN900 | Asking Stskeeps about Nokia and open source. |
| 08:21.35 | dmj7261 | But when I buy it's the current generation |
| 08:21.56 | Stskeeps | GAN900: waking up with nausea and this conversation isn't helping |
| 08:22.00 | dmj7261 | *note* not necessarily the top card, but the current generation |
| 08:22.02 | luke-jr | dmj7261: that's dumb, seeing as you can get better performance/$ going a few months back |
| 08:22.22 | Termana | luke-jr, you'd never own an iphone would you? lmfao |
| 08:22.26 | RST38h | moos at Stskeeps and GAN |
| 08:22.33 | dmj7261 | The problem is that ATI can take up to a year to get proper *FOSS* drivers working. |
| 08:22.42 | luke-jr | Termana: I might, if I could be sure there were open drivers so I could just flash Gentoo on it |
| 08:22.45 | Stskeeps | Termana: luke-jr would probably never own any consumer mobile hardware that he would be happy with.. |
| 08:22.45 | Xisdibik | Stskeeps: sorry to hear about your nausea :( |
| 08:22.48 | dmj7261 | wouldn't want an iturd either |
| 08:22.54 | GAN900 | Stskeeps, hey, I'm pretty sure yo ass is paid to respond to every one of these discussions now. *eg* |
| 08:22.55 | RST38h | sighs. ATI. NVidia. Hehe. |
| 08:23.01 | lamojola | GAN900, wasn't here, I suppose. |
| 08:23.02 | Termana | Stskeeps, touche lol |
| 08:23.12 | luke-jr | iPhone might have a better chance of being 100% free than N810 |
| 08:23.23 | dmj7261 | I've mostly had good experiences with intel (Ubuntu 9.04 excepted) |
| 08:23.29 | Stskeeps | GAN900: actually no, but i did forget to get "no licensing discussions with community" in my contract |
| 08:23.32 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 08:23.55 | Termana | lol |
| 08:24.04 | RST38h | Go try using IGD, punks. The drivers are open sourced |
| 08:24.15 | RST38h | So you will be fully OSS compliant. |
| 08:24.19 | keesj | luke-jr: free of free software |
| 08:24.21 | luke-jr | RST38h: GMA 500 ? |
| 08:24.24 | luke-jr | RST38h: where? |
| 08:24.26 | dmj7261 | Intel drivers are nice on the FOSS front. |
| 08:24.30 | RST38h | My laptop :) |
| 08:24.42 | luke-jr | RST38h: you have 100% open GMA 500 drivers? |
| 08:24.43 | dmj7261 | ...The only problem is graphics performance. |
| 08:24.55 | RST38h | Of course, it does not perform, but that is not a problem for a true OSS zealot, is it? |
| 08:25.00 | luke-jr | RST38h: the community wants to talk to you. |
| 08:25.02 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (n=geaaru@host34-212-dynamic.30-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 08:25.08 | dmj7261 | They even are starting to release FOSS drivers months ahead of release of the hardware. |
| 08:25.09 | luke-jr | at least, get the code from you |
| 08:25.18 | RST38h | "You" as in what? |
| 08:25.29 | luke-jr | RST38h: you, who claims to have GMA 500 open drivers |
| 08:25.38 | Termana | luke-jr is wagging his tail for these gma foss drivers |
| 08:25.48 | RST38h | I claim to have open drivers for the chipset in my laptop |
| 08:25.52 | *** join/#maemo dimir (n=dimir@dimir.eu) |
| 08:25.52 | Termana | give a dog a bone RST38h |
| 08:25.58 | dmj7261 | SO either ATI with prompt, high quality FOSS drivers or powerful intel chips would be ideal. |
| 08:26.00 | luke-jr | Termana: GMA 500 is rebranded PowerVR SGX, so would basically mean open 3D for N900 |
| 08:26.08 | dmj7261 | Either that or Nvidia going GPL. |
| 08:26.14 | RST38h | Which is probably G45 |
| 08:26.52 | RST38h | So, if you are willing to use G45, there are open drivers |
| 08:26.53 | dmj7261 | ...that's the one exception to the intel has good FOSS drivers |
| 08:27.01 | Form0 | there was interesting interview with some nvidia guy explaining why it would be difficult for them to go open source. |
| 08:27.07 | suihkulokki | heads to fetch popcorn |
| 08:27.08 | dmj7261 | some dell minis ran afould of that |
| 08:27.12 | luke-jr | Form0: you mean making up BS excuses |
| 08:27.16 | luke-jr | suihkulokki: good idea |
| 08:27.22 | dmj7261 | I tire of this conversation. |
| 08:27.29 | RST38h | If you want to use graphics that performs, suck it up and use whatever drivers manufacturer is kind enough to release upon you =) |
| 08:27.31 | Form0 | well yea, of course it's still an excuse, but still :) |
| 08:27.47 | dmj7261 | reason: nvidia drivers on windows and linux share 90 percent of their code |
| 08:27.56 | thux | good conversation for a change |
| 08:28.00 | Stskeeps | GAN900: my tactic is really showing openness by doing instead of arguing constantly :P |
| 08:28.08 | Form0 | And ATI has really stepped up on the linux drivers, seem to get them out better in line with windows |
| 08:28.20 | Form0 | It might get a blow now that AMD lost their main linux manager |
| 08:28.21 | Termana | luke-jr, don't you think your all-FOSS atitude is part of the reason for linux not being popular on the desktop? |
| 08:28.24 | thux | must say luke-jr seems to be right |
| 08:28.46 | dmj7261 | My strategy is to favor FOSS wherever possible. |
| 08:29.06 | luke-jr | Termana: no. once you start including proprietary blobs, it's no longer Linux, and defeats the entire point of it. |
| 08:29.15 | RST38h | strategy is to use whatever performs, does not break, and is cheaper |
| 08:29.17 | luke-jr | might as well run Windows if you're going to go non-free. |
| 08:29.17 | Form0 | I'm not seeing why everything has to be free.. |
| 08:29.32 | dmj7261 | It's not the only variable, but two things being within reasonable, the most open one wins. |
| 08:29.33 | Form0 | You trying to trample developers into second class citizens? |
| 08:29.45 | sleipnir | Termana: where is your argument. giving up ones beliefs for what... popularity? |
| 08:29.50 | RST38h | is kinda surprised why somebody would have a different strategy |
| 08:30.00 | dmj7261 | Free as virtue, not as requirement. |
| 08:30.01 | Termana | Form0, the truth is luke-jr is RMS in disguise |
| 08:30.07 | Form0 | hehe |
| 08:30.12 | luke-jr | Termana: RMS tolerates closed source more than me |
| 08:30.24 | dmj7261 | That's a scary statement |
| 08:30.27 | RST38h | takes the kettle and the Safeway bag from luke-jr |
| 08:30.39 | luke-jr | RMS is ok with closed hardware |
| 08:30.47 | dmj7261 | I've seen RMS in shouting matches over Free. |
| 08:30.47 | Termana | sleipnir, no one says you have to give up beliefs - its about reasonable expectations |
| 08:30.48 | luke-jr | I merely tolerate it :p |
| 08:31.29 | dmj7261 | luke-jr will make his own Sparc chips in his basement. |
| 08:31.35 | sleipnir | Termana: then we agree, sometimes you have to live with what you get, but you should never give up pushing that state forward |
| 08:31.37 | luke-jr | haha |
| 08:31.44 | Form0 | I don't think closed source is such a baddie.. software patents on the other hand >< |
| 08:32.25 | dmj7261 | I'm not looking at the n900 because it's totally open, but because it's the most open and trending in a good direction. |
| 08:32.32 | suihkulokki | I think luke-jrs "iphone has better chances to 100% free software than n8x0" is quite telling |
| 08:32.50 | dmj7261 | Don't get me going on software patents. |
| 08:32.55 | luke-jr | suihkulokki: iPhone is s3c6410 SoC, which has completely open documentation for even 3D |
| 08:32.56 | RST38h | RMS is not ok with vehicle license tags, he says they are invading privacy. |
| 08:33.06 | suihkulokki | people will prefer shiny over free, even so far as reverse engineering the shiny to be free |
| 08:33.08 | sleipnir | dmj7261: it's not the most open! but it is the (probably) most open _working_ phone ;-) |
| 08:33.10 | RST38h | So, do you REALLY want to listen to whatever RMS says? |
| 08:33.12 | Termana | sleipnir, we are in agreement. however i don't think you'll find luke-jr agreeing to our middle ground |
| 08:33.22 | sleipnir | hehe |
| 08:33.26 | dmj7261 | I wasn't counting mythical devices. |
| 08:33.48 | sleipnir | dmj7261: what's mythical about the freerunner??? |
| 08:33.49 | RST38h | sighs and goes back to internal bugtracker |
| 08:33.58 | Form0 | Having totally open phones might come into snags with authorities too |
| 08:34.09 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (n=JRocha@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 08:34.10 | dmj7261 | ...it's not working and development of the freerunner devices has stalled. |
| 08:34.16 | luke-jr | Termana: your "middle ground" is merely surrender to me. the "middle ground" of an already "middle ground" |
| 08:34.28 | luke-jr | the true middle ground lies in closed hardware+firmware, and open software |
| 08:34.41 | RST38h | <yawn> |
| 08:34.48 | Form0 | botnets of N900s would surely cause mayhem with the phone networks |
| 08:34.53 | sleipnir | as i said, n900 is probably the most open _working_ phone (have non yet, so i don't know) |
| 08:34.55 | luke-jr | dmj7261: actually, Freerunner software development is still ongoing in the community and now works last I heard |
| 08:34.58 | RST38h | luke-jr: Sorry, but have you ever developed any drivers or other kernel level stuff? |
| 08:35.10 | suihkulokki | intel has free drivers but their hardwares isn't shiny, so people head to nvidia anyway (and choose to whine them not being free) |
| 08:35.11 | dmj7261 | Can I buy a new Freerunner? |
| 08:35.19 | luke-jr | RST38h: I got Linux to boot on my cable modem, does that count? |
| 08:35.26 | RST38h | luke-jr: No |
| 08:35.28 | dmj7261 | Will better Freerunners be developed? |
| 08:35.28 | luke-jr | dmj7261: yes, $250 direct from OpenMoko |
| 08:35.41 | RST38h | luke-jr: So, no developer? |
| 08:35.47 | Termana | luke-jr, i think you'll find that developers have to eat too and you'll never find your version of middle groun |
| 08:35.50 | luke-jr | dmj7261: OpenMoko cancelled their latest phone project for a lame Wikipedia reader |
| 08:35.51 | dmj7261 | How does the Freerunner compare to the n900? |
| 08:35.53 | Termana | ground* |
| 08:36.01 | luke-jr | RST38h: I had to write code to get it to boot ;) |
| 08:36.03 | dmj7261 | ...I knew that...and it was my point. |
| 08:36.04 | Stskeeps | dmj7261: i wanted to kiss my n900, my freerunner i wanted to throw out the window.. |
| 08:36.07 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 08:36.13 | RST38h | luke-jr: That is not what I asked about though |
| 08:36.14 | luke-jr | Termana: I am a developer. I know I have to eat. |
| 08:36.25 | luke-jr | Termana: open source has nothing to do with gratis. |
| 08:36.27 | sleipnir | dmj7261: you can buy the freerunner still, software development is ongoing... future devices... now it becomes difficult :-) |
| 08:36.36 | RST38h | luke-jr: So, you have never developed any device drivers? |
| 08:36.43 | dmj7261 | ...there's only so much you can improve with software |
| 08:36.45 | luke-jr | RST38h: not that I can think of |
| 08:36.56 | sleipnir | dmj7261: i fully agree |
| 08:37.00 | RST38h | That explains why you think that you can have "open" software with "closed" hardware |
| 08:37.01 | dmj7261 | I haven't developed any actually useful drivers. |
| 08:37.10 | luke-jr | Stskeeps: I'd take the Freerunner, but the GSM problem is unsolvable :/ |
| 08:37.30 | dmj7261 | If OpenMoko looked healthy and competitive, I would be over there right now. |
| 08:37.30 | luke-jr | RST38h: by closed hardware, I mean its internal workings, not its specifications |
| 08:37.47 | dmj7261 | ...but Maemo is far more competitive right now. |
| 08:37.50 | sleipnir | the most striking problem of the freerunner is the graphic performance and the battery life |
| 08:37.51 | RST38h | So, you would like open hardware as well? |
| 08:37.53 | luke-jr | dmj7261: check out their community OS... I hear it works with that now |
| 08:37.56 | RST38h | Well, never gonna happen |
| 08:38.08 | dmj7261 | that = ? |
| 08:38.09 | luke-jr | sleipnir: they fixed/worked around the graphics issue |
| 08:38.14 | RST38h | Because there is 1.5 billion Chinese |
| 08:38.39 | sleipnir | luke-jr: no they can't. the problem is in hardware aka the small memory bus |
| 08:38.56 | sleipnir | all you can do is to switch to QVGA to get a reasonable performance |
| 08:39.04 | luke-jr | sleipnir: I don't know what the trick was. |
| 08:39.10 | dmj7261 | Nokia does deserve competition on the open platform front. |
| 08:39.18 | dmj7261 | It would make them better. |
| 08:39.20 | luke-jr | sleipnir: but there was talk earlier yesterday about good framerate or such |
| 08:39.46 | sleipnir | is checking the mailinglist as he owns a FR |
| 08:39.49 | dmj7261 | anyway: Are there any good 3D graphics engines ported to maemo? |
| 08:40.23 | luke-jr | sleipnir: it was on IRC |
| 08:40.33 | luke-jr | bleeding edge stuff |
| 08:40.45 | sleipnir | luke-jr: there is also a mail on the devel list |
| 08:40.50 | Ceron^ | unreal 3 engine ported to maemo! |
| 08:40.55 | sleipnir | is reading... sounds good |
| 08:41.03 | Ceron^ | also cryengine 2 will be ported to maemo |
| 08:41.08 | luke-jr | sleipnir: ah |
| 08:42.15 | Stskeeps | lamojola: re recompile for target - sadly not that easy. we had to seperate out a low of HW specific code. yes, Mer has a SDK. you can develop straight on your x86 -or- ARM device -or- cross-compile from x86 to ARM with OBS.. and yes, product leap frogging has been bad but they are getting better at taking input now with Fremantle/Harmattan.. open replacements are always good when there's a huge amount of people willing to do it and h |
| 08:42.21 | Stskeeps | ... time.. but there isn't in this community.. there is both Mer and community SSU efforts for Nokia N8x0, and even gentoo if you swing that way :P |
| 08:43.12 | *** join/#maemo Flandry (n=quassel@c-71-192-162-102.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 08:43.47 | sleipnir | Stskeeps: don't make fun of gentoo ;-P |
| 08:43.58 | *** join/#maemo lbt (n=dgreaves@88.211.33.26) |
| 08:44.25 | luke-jr | Stskeeps: wanna convince someone to send me a N900 so I get Gentoo working on it? |
| 08:44.43 | Stskeeps | luke-jr: i have to pay 250 eur like every other developer to get a n900 of my own :P |
| 08:44.51 | Stskeeps | developer that has karma, that is |
| 08:45.03 | luke-jr | oh well |
| 08:45.16 | luke-jr | you'd need to get them to buy me service too cuz I ain't paying ripoff GSM US prices :p |
| 08:45.26 | *** join/#maemo Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 08:45.30 | Stskeeps | luke-jr: but add yourself to the queue for loaner devices |
| 08:45.35 | dmj7261 | I think it would be good to have tools to write 3D games other than straight OGL ES 2 |
| 08:45.49 | sleipnir | Stskeeps: where can you do that? |
| 08:46.06 | luke-jr | Stskeeps: I think I did, but I don't care enough to check :p |
| 08:46.47 | *** join/#maemo tekojo (n=quassel@Maemo/maemo.org/infrastructure/tekojo) |
| 08:46.48 | Stskeeps | blinks at a recent change to Mer/Nokia Wishlist |
| 08:47.05 | Stskeeps | "possibility to install to Nokia E90 Communicator (since end of life cycle)" |
| 08:47.18 | luke-jr | lol |
| 08:47.25 | RST38h | yeek |
| 08:48.11 | lbt | has no idea about E90 internals... |
| 08:48.36 | Stskeeps | it does sound like a sweet mer target but still .. :P |
| 08:48.39 | luke-jr | imagines it was added by Stskeeps's new boss... ;) |
| 08:48.50 | lbt | sounds 'plain' to me ;) |
| 08:49.03 | lbt | which is no bad thing |
| 08:49.17 | Stskeeps | omap2420, 128mb ram .. |
| 08:50.03 | luke-jr | ? |
| 08:50.10 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 08:50.14 | Stskeeps | e90, luke-jr |
| 08:50.15 | Stskeeps | morning jaffa |
| 08:50.19 | lbt | hi Jaffa |
| 08:50.28 | luke-jr | Stskeeps: so it's a N8x0? |
| 08:50.54 | Stskeeps | luke-jr: nah, this one has an actual camera |
| 08:51.22 | *** join/#maemo Meiz_TB (n=Meizirkk@padedu-62-165-142-152.phnet.fi) |
| 08:52.03 | lbt | phone HW would be hard to access |
| 08:52.16 | *** join/#maemo svillar (n=sergio@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 08:52.20 | luke-jr | lbt: Stskeeps is an employee now :p |
| 08:52.25 | lbt | E90 non-Communicator |
| 08:52.35 | Stskeeps | luke-jr: of maemo.org yeah |
| 08:52.43 | *** join/#maemo iomari (n=iomari@41.222.209.65) |
| 08:53.14 | luke-jr | <.< |
| 08:53.20 | luke-jr | Stskeeps: how comes 3D and GPS? |
| 08:53.30 | iomari | greetings, is it possible to connect a usb2ehternet device on the nokia n900? |
| 08:53.46 | Stskeeps | iomari: no USB OTG though some speculate usb host is possible |
| 08:53.50 | Stskeeps | luke-jr: 3d? good, TI finally answered to some |
| 08:54.09 | Stskeeps | luke-jr: i'm planning on looking on the GPS stuff in december |
| 08:54.37 | RST38h | meaningfully contributed to the religious tmo thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=377690&postcount=31 |
| 08:55.44 | *** join/#maemo dmj726 (n=david@63.252.67.100) |
| 08:56.49 | dmj726 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=377686#post377686 |
| 08:58.21 | dmj726 | I started the above thread to encourage discussion of porting a graphics engine to maemo! |
| 08:58.27 | luke-jr | dmj726: why not just use GLES directly? -.-;; |
| 08:58.33 | RST38h | dmj726: So, what is the problem? Download the source code and start coding! |
| 08:59.37 | dmj726 | GLES is a very low level library (reinventing the wheel issue) |
| 09:00.10 | luke-jr | dmj726: the one 3D game I develop for is raw OpenGL |
| 09:00.17 | recalcati | iomari: normally linux easily provide it, check beagleboard, but check also kernel possibilities is maemo |
| 09:00.38 | iomari | recalcati: ok thanks. |
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| 09:00.52 | alterego | I like the idea of porting the ogre engine, it's a really nice piece of software. |
| 09:00.58 | alterego | Though, it's quite a large system. |
| 09:01.12 | dmj726 | I'm not sure this is really a problem, but getting others involved is a good thing, particularly if they have more 3D graphics experience than me. |
| 09:01.13 | alterego | Does it support ES? |
| 09:01.35 | dmj726 | I think the ES 2.0 is the issue right now with OGRE |
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| 09:01.59 | RST38h | dmj726: This is not how you involve others. You involve others by doing something yourself |
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| 09:02.41 | alterego | Apparently it has ES1.0/1.1 support but not 2.0 |
| 09:03.12 | dmj726 | yeah...no clue how much effort would be required to add 2.0 support |
| 09:03.22 | dmj726 | the iphone folks haven't managed that yet |
| 09:03.50 | alterego | I think Horde has 2.0 support. |
| 09:03.50 | dmj726 | Horde might be a good candidate. |
| 09:04.19 | dmj726 | I heard that someone was planning some porting work, but that was a year ago. |
| 09:05.50 | hrw | hi |
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| 09:15.54 | alterego | I like the fact that in the 'maemo.org Applications/Extras/" thread everyone is still refering to it as "maemo.org Extras" or "Extras". So even with the name change, are we all still going to call it "extras"? |
| 09:16.04 | alterego | This is going to get quite confusing I think. |
| 09:16.43 | hrw | repo is extras anyway |
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| 09:17.03 | alterego | I think "maemo.org Applications" is a good idea really, because we can juust refer to it as community applications or "maemo.org Applications" extras does sound a bit bolt-on-ish to me. |
| 09:17.25 | iomari | recalcati: Stskeeps I'm just readin up on usb otg. Does this mean I can connect a flash or external usb drive to the n900? |
| 09:18.10 | alterego | iomari, the N900 does not have host mode capability |
| 09:18.36 | alterego | This is because (I believe) the charging over USB conflicts with host mode capability, so the hardware is not capable of doing it. |
| 09:18.44 | alterego | Unlike the N8XX devices. |
| 09:18.44 | iomari | alterego: damn.thanks. how about a usb bridge? Does that require ost mode? |
| 09:18.53 | Stskeeps | iomari: please don't assume that this is possible though. speculation :P |
| 09:19.10 | alterego | I don't know what a "USB Bridge" is :) |
| 09:19.29 | iomari | alterego: it's like a usb cross cable. |
| 09:19.35 | alterego | I think SDIO hacks are the only hardware extensibility we have. |
| 09:20.00 | luke-jr | speculates Stskeeps. |
| 09:20.04 | alterego | No, I doubt that'd work. |
| 09:20.14 | iomari | damn again :-) |
| 09:20.32 | iomari | i guess I'm stuck with wifi |
| 09:20.50 | hrw | or bt |
| 09:20.58 | hrw | or usbdevicenet |
| 09:21.04 | iomari | bt? too slow. |
| 09:21.12 | luke-jr | or GSM |
| 09:21.22 | iomari | what the hell is usbdevicenet |
| 09:21.27 | luke-jr | or webcam/LCD |
| 09:21.42 | hrw | iomari: you connect n900 to desktop and use usb ethernet emulation |
| 09:21.52 | hrw | instead of usb mass storage |
| 09:22.10 | iomari | hrw: connect with wifi? |
| 09:22.13 | hrw | no |
| 09:22.16 | hrw | usb cable |
| 09:22.17 | luke-jr | USB Bridge would work if the N900 has client end |
| 09:22.17 | luke-jr | :p |
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| 09:22.37 | iomari | hrw: that's what i meant.that will suffice. |
| 09:22.56 | iomari | luke-jr: that's even better.thanks |
| 09:26.02 | alterego | I don't see what that solves though, it's not going to allow you to connect it to an external drive. |
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| 09:26.40 | recalcati | iomari: usb otg means that is you use normal small usb connector the N900 works as an usb gadget, instead if you use mini-A to mini-B usb connector it wokrs as an usb host. Then, if you connect usb to lan interface and have the driver for it , it will work |
| 09:27.21 | iomari | recalcati: interesting. thanks |
| 09:27.31 | hrw | recalcati: sure, thats how OTG works. but n900 usb port is not OTG |
| 09:27.47 | hrw | unless something changed in last days |
| 09:28.13 | alterego | I think it's safe to say nothing has changed, because of the power-over-usb charging suppport. |
| 09:28.21 | alterego | Which has not dissapeared :P |
| 09:28.56 | dmj726 | who needs to actually *charge* the device? |
| 09:29.03 | alterego | :) |
| 09:29.09 | hrw | recalcati: so remember: n8x0 has OTG, n900 lacks OTG and only have client usb ;( |
| 09:29.15 | dmj726 | just remove the phone's battery and use an external charger! |
| 09:29.16 | alterego | I don't, but then, I don't have a "device" :P |
| 09:29.29 | alterego | What's the status on N8XX power vr driver support? |
| 09:29.35 | recalcati | hrw: ok |
| 09:29.46 | recalcati | hrw: but I hope it will have |
| 09:30.02 | dmj726 | It will automatically support OpenGL 3.2. |
| 09:30.24 | alterego | Eh? |
| 09:30.34 | luke-jr | and OpenVR 5 |
| 09:30.36 | luke-jr | 8) |
| 09:30.47 | Stskeeps | alterego: TI is responsive |
| 09:31.19 | alterego | Stskeeps: are they available yet? |
| 09:31.20 | luke-jr | sts go ping |
| 09:31.22 | luke-jr | TI go pong |
| 09:31.27 | luke-jr | repeat |
| 09:31.40 | Stskeeps | alterego: not yet |
| 09:31.46 | Stskeeps | will be eventually |
| 09:32.04 | luke-jr | TEH CHIP MONK STRIKES AGAIN |
| 09:32.07 | alterego | *grumble* *grumble* :P |
| 09:32.50 | alterego | If I'm not getting an N900 any time soon, it'd be nice to flesh out some of my ideas on the N810 with 3D acceleration. :) |
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| 09:34.24 | alterego | I guess I should learn Qt then, if that's the way things are going :( |
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| 09:34.47 | dmj726 | alterego: are you considering getting an n900 and it's the whole shipping thing or are you planning on sticking with n8x0? |
| 09:35.14 | alterego | I'm considering getting one, but when it comes down in price. I didn't get accepted for the device programme and 500 GBP is just too steep. |
| 09:35.41 | dmj726 | I'm on the other side of the pond and need a new phone |
| 09:35.45 | alterego | I'ver calculated I can sell my old mobile handsets for half the price, so I'd in theory reclaim some of the expense, but still ... |
| 09:36.10 | dmj726 | Current phone only makes one way phone calls. |
| 09:36.18 | alterego | Heh |
| 09:36.29 | dmj726 | I can hear anyone I call. |
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| 09:36.41 | alterego | Hah, nice. |
| 09:36.51 | alterego | Well, I've got an N96 and an N95 8G |
| 09:36.57 | alterego | I can sell both of those for 250 GBP |
| 09:36.58 | dmj726 | Usually, it's "Hello? Hello?..." click |
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| 09:37.39 | dmj726 | I haven't had a Nokia since snake was a new thing for them. |
| 09:38.27 | dmj726 | Which was before AT&T became Cingular became AT&T |
| 09:40.00 | rmrfchik | is confused... n900 or Androiud based? |
| 09:40.20 | alterego | Oh, I'd never get an Android, |
| 09:40.31 | alterego | The Nokia Maemo platform is a lot more flexible. |
| 09:40.46 | tigert | rmrfchik: you expect an objective answer here? :) |
| 09:40.53 | alterego | I think from a user's perspective though, Android is a powerful contender. |
| 09:40.56 | Termana | if you want sexy get the motorola droid if you want functional and part sexy go n900 |
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| 09:41.24 | dmj726 | Droid has more apps, n900 has the potential for better apps |
| 09:41.25 | rmrfchik | tigert: sure no! |
| 09:41.38 | dmj726 | n900 has a better camera |
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| 09:42.01 | rmrfchik | but will maemo6 will run on n900? |
| 09:42.14 | dmj726 | maybe |
| 09:42.14 | rmrfchik | maemo5 is dead on born, it's GTK based |
| 09:42.34 | dmj726 | Maemo 5 supports Qt |
| 09:42.35 | tigert | maemo5 works fine on n900 |
| 09:42.36 | Termana | since the droid is sexier, get one if you want to look like a regular consumer. you will be bowed to, like iphone users are |
| 09:43.14 | tigert | its like not buying a 2009 car because there will be the 2010 model |
| 09:43.21 | rmrfchik | dmj726: i'm not talking about "supporting". I'm talking about resource usage |
| 09:43.26 | tigert | the 2009 model wont stop working on dec 31 |
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| 09:43.58 | dmj726 | I don't get the GTK comment? |
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| 09:44.22 | Termana | rmrfchik, i bet you build your own pcs too right? probably a gamer? |
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| 09:44.31 | alterego | I think that was me saying I'm going to have to get familiar with Qt as this seems to be the way things are heading. |
| 09:44.33 | rmrfchik | Termana: you win |
| 09:44.58 | dmj726 | n900 is definitely good for the DIY crowd |
| 09:45.04 | Termana | rmrfchik, as soon as you said resource usage i knew |
| 09:45.30 | rmrfchik | Termana: it's other my side which crys for resources. |
| 09:46.22 | Termana | for anyone that doesn't know rmrfchik is complaining about the fact maemo 5 will have to load the qt libraries on top of the gtk ones. like when your using gnome and want to use a kde app |
| 09:46.33 | dmj726 | ah |
| 09:46.33 | rmrfchik | to have 2 GUI libs loaded (ok, mmaped) on the small device isn't good for speed |
| 09:47.00 | dmj726 | android will have to run apps in the java sandbox |
| 09:47.17 | rmrfchik | Termana: it doesn't matter on desktop, right? it does matter on small device ;) |
| 09:47.23 | dmj726 | ...that's one of the bigger things that annoys me about android. |
| 09:47.45 | rmrfchik | agree |
| 09:48.13 | dmj726 | rmrfchik: I can see that point...more stuff gets pushed to the virtual memory in the case of heavy multitasking |
| 09:48.16 | Termana | rmrfchik, i'm not arguing where it matters - i was just making sure everyone knew what you were talking about :P |
| 09:48.37 | rmrfchik | Termana: stop reading my mind! get out of my head! |
| 09:48.43 | dmj726 | Perhaps someone can test the effects of this? |
| 09:48.58 | alterego | Most applicatons, right now, are Gtk+ based, I expect people will be using Qt on N900 in preparation for maemo6 |
| 09:49.13 | Termana | oops sorry bout that *gets out of rmrfchik's head* |
| 09:49.28 | alterego | So, maybe mid-next year, it'll be 50/50 and by the end of next year it'll be 90% Qt :P |
| 09:50.04 | dmj726 | and then we all get an upgrade on our n900s to maemo 6 :P |
| 09:50.07 | alterego | So expect your device to be slowest in August next year :) |
| 09:50.51 | Termana | lol people will wonder why their devices are getting slower over time |
| 09:51.15 | alterego | Well, now we have an answer :P |
| 09:51.19 | rmrfchik | ram cells becomes more dirty |
| 09:51.26 | alterego | Heh |
| 09:51.26 | dmj726 | No they won't...not the people who are used to windoz at least. |
| 09:51.39 | dmj726 | ...it's the linux registry, obviously |
| 09:51.43 | alterego | I think the speed decrease will be marginal. |
| 09:52.03 | dmj726 | You'll only see a decrease if you're using swap |
| 09:52.43 | Myrtti | I suggest you stick to http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dialog.jpg?uselang=en |
| 09:52.52 | Myrtti | no slowing during lifespam |
| 09:52.58 | Myrtti | no memory problem |
| 09:52.59 | Myrtti | s |
| 09:53.08 | Myrtti | works a charm. |
| 09:53.42 | dmj726 | makes for a great wii peripheral! |
| 09:55.05 | alterego | Oh, has anyone ported libwiicd? |
| 09:55.10 | alterego | Or whatever it's called :) |
| 09:55.31 | alterego | libcwwd |
| 09:55.34 | alterego | libcwiid .. |
| 09:55.38 | alterego | I think I'll do it now. |
| 09:55.42 | dmj726 | wiimote works on n900 |
| 09:56.11 | alterego | Oh, nice. |
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| 09:56.21 | Termana | Myrtti, fail - there is a memory problem. the problem is it has none. lol |
| 09:56.38 | dmj726 | haven't you seen the video of tv out + snes emulator + wiimotes? |
| 09:56.45 | dmj726 | on n900 |
| 09:56.47 | alterego | Nope :P |
| 09:56.54 | dmj726 | google it |
| 09:57.45 | alterego | Teeheehee |
| 09:58.24 | alterego | Teehee, screaming baby in the background :) |
| 09:58.50 | dmj726 | neglected by lucky *******with an n900 |
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| 10:34.48 | johnx | m00f |
| 10:34.52 | Stskeeps | moo johnx |
| 10:35.09 | johnx | just got back from work |
| 10:35.26 | Stskeeps | you managed to miss the typical oss discussion :P |
| 10:35.33 | Ceron^ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtY1GMPfadI why get a bugatti when you can have a n900 |
| 10:35.35 | johnx | ah. bonus |
| 10:35.38 | johnx | also: I'm becoming less impressed with vmware |
| 10:36.08 | Stskeeps | mm? |
| 10:36.57 | Termana | yello johnx |
| 10:37.10 | johnx | Stskeeps, hint: I just got back from work and it's 2:36AM Monday here :) |
| 10:37.17 | Stskeeps | johnx: ah |
| 10:37.19 | johnx | Termana, allo |
| 10:37.21 | Stskeeps | point taken |
| 10:38.03 | johnx | it was supposed to be a regular maintenance window, but it appears that there is some kind of weird glitch in the vmware network card driver which affects our phone system (all centralized, IP phones, yada yada yada) |
| 10:38.16 | Stskeeps | ah, yeah, i've run into those :P |
| 10:38.26 | Termana | do you at least get paid overtime johnx? :P |
| 10:38.33 | johnx | Termana, yup. :) |
| 10:39.26 | Stskeeps | right, i'll give a cookie to the first guy making clone to SD for n900 |
| 10:39.33 | Stskeeps | is getting sick of reinstalling broken backups. |
| 10:39.47 | Termana | not all bad then :P you just need some optimisim and a push in the right direction |
| 10:40.16 | Termana | preferably off the building. lol j/k |
| 10:40.33 | johnx | Termana, I'd rather have free time than money, actually. or at least, I'd rather have more than time and a half :> |
| 10:41.01 | johnx | I now have at least another off-hours maintenance window to schedule to swap out the NIC and hope it helps |
| 10:42.12 | Termana | why not ask for double time and cite medical insanity from stupid ass software as the reason |
| 10:42.23 | Termana | :P |
| 10:43.02 | Termana | say you'll sue them for the induced insanity otherwise! :P lol |
| 10:44.21 | johnx | eh, I just want them to give the go-ahead for me to start switching to xen or kvm or (*&#$#ing anything else |
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| 10:45.38 | Stskeeps | right, rsync -aHx to external sd, plug sd in laptop, make a ubifs out of it.. this ought to work |
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| 10:46.42 | johnx | tangential: I'm always interested when people all seem to use vaguely different rsync arguments with the goal of accomplishing the same thing |
| 10:47.21 | Stskeeps | x is the important one here .. don't go across fs limits |
| 10:47.40 | johnx | ah, neat. I use a different trick for that |
| 10:47.42 | johnx | a bind mount |
| 10:47.48 | Stskeeps | http://flors.wordpress.com/ |
| 10:47.51 | Stskeeps | if you didn't see, btw |
| 10:48.04 | johnx | woo! |
| 10:48.06 | johnx | flasher images! |
| 10:48.12 | Stskeeps | and new sdk updates |
| 10:48.18 | johnx | ooooh. not a MAC addr this time :> |
| 10:48.50 | Stskeeps | ah, imei instead |
| 10:49.31 | johnx | GUI installer for the SDK! wow. step in the right direction at least |
| 10:49.44 | johnx | I wish they'd push the vmware image more prominently |
| 10:49.53 | devmax | johnx: hmpf? can you post link :D |
| 10:50.06 | Stskeeps | johnx: that does point a bit to that they'll ship today |
| 10:50.32 | devmax | i don't see any images, where is your source |
| 10:50.32 | Stskeeps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BPUbic1-mk&feature=player_embedded wtf |
| 10:50.34 | johnx | devmax, vmware image? flasher image? |
| 10:50.49 | johnx | flasher images are here: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php |
| 10:50.54 | devmax | johnx: thank you |
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| 10:51.19 | zaheerm | awesome |
| 10:51.27 | zaheerm | can now update the preproduction n900 |
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| 10:51.44 | johnx | I was hoping for an SSU :( |
| 10:51.45 | zaheerm | thx johnx |
| 10:51.45 | Stskeeps | and new kernel sources published |
| 10:51.46 | Stskeeps | phew |
| 10:51.54 | Stskeeps | was getting worried |
| 10:51.57 | johnx | guess it's a good time to reflash and clean up :/ |
| 10:52.09 | Termana | lmao i got kicked from #ubuntu-offtopic |
| 10:52.13 | Stskeeps | oh, hey |
| 10:52.18 | Stskeeps | they published libjpeg6b |
| 10:52.19 | johnx | actually, no, (&#$ that. it's 3AM here. I should do that tomorrow ... |
| 10:52.31 | johnx | s/tomorrow/later today/ |
| 10:52.46 | ccooke | Morning, all |
| 10:52.52 | devmax | johnx: can i just put 123456121234560 as IMEI there ? :D |
| 10:53.03 | Stskeeps | that's a lot of L3/L4 going to L1/L2 |
| 10:53.03 | Termana | morning ccooke |
| 10:53.12 | johnx | mornin' ccooke |
| 10:53.19 | johnx | Stskeeps, very cool |
| 10:53.51 | Stskeeps | wtf was this closed source for so long |
| 10:54.09 | johnx | which one? |
| 10:54.13 | Stskeeps | libjpeg |
| 10:54.28 | Stskeeps | uh.. |
| 10:54.31 | johnx | heh. I'd love to believe there are some insanely cool optimizations |
| 10:54.32 | Stskeeps | osso-icons as source |
| 10:54.32 | ccooke | Stskeeps: I *think* there were patent issues originally |
| 10:55.00 | hrw | few new questions I have |
| 10:55.18 | hrw | 1. does n900 xserver supports rotation out-of-box with xrandr or not? |
| 10:56.13 | Stskeeps | johnx: osso-icons are still limited but at least they are providing a source package |
| 10:56.16 | *** join/#maemo samuel (n=sam@wrsmx.zol.co.zw) |
| 10:56.20 | Stskeeps | with a restrictive license |
| 10:56.26 | _berto_ | SDK updated again today ? |
| 10:56.27 | *** join/#maemo BabelO_ (n=BabelO@unaffiliated/babelo) |
| 10:56.27 | timeless_mbp | tigert: i'm not buying a 2010 model (it's that time of year) because 2015 models will happen! |
| 10:56.39 | Stskeeps | _berto_: yeah |
| 10:57.12 | kalikiana | hrw, you can switch an option whether it's automatic or not |
| 10:57.35 | Stskeeps | woo, maemoblocks source :P |
| 10:57.49 | hrw | kalikiana: thx |
| 10:57.57 | hrw | Stskeeps: url? |
| 10:58.22 | Stskeeps | http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/m/ |
| 10:58.24 | hrw | Stskeeps: as I am tired of navigating on repository.maemo.org and guessing where all is this time |
| 10:58.27 | tigert | timeless_mbp: pretty much yeah |
| 10:58.41 | johnx | hrw, it does. but using the CLI xrandr ... doesn't work as expected :) |
| 10:58.51 | hrw | johnx: thx |
| 10:58.52 | *** join/#maemo fab (n=bellet@monkey.creatis.insa-lyon.fr) |
| 10:58.56 | hrw | ARGH... |
| 10:59.27 | hrw | ~deeplycurse maemo so called admins for crappy sorting of directories on repository.maemo.org |
| 10:59.36 | Stskeeps | akamai issue probablly |
| 11:00.12 | *** join/#maemo Meiz_TB (n=Meizirkk@padedu-62-165-142-152.phnet.fi) |
| 11:00.31 | hrw | Stskeeps: for me it does not matter where it is kept. it is repository.maemo.org so I curse them |
| 11:00.37 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: err, is my xref out of date already? |
| 11:00.44 | Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: possibly.. |
| 11:00.44 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 11:01.06 | timeless_mbp | you guys all suck |
| 11:01.10 | timeless_mbp | curses the world |
| 11:01.35 | Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: hey, i have to update again in mer too :P |
| 11:01.37 | timeless_mbp | ponders |
| 11:01.48 | Jaffa | Yay, firmware |
| 11:02.01 | zerojay | Firmware? |
| 11:02.06 | Stskeeps | fiasco |
| 11:02.16 | johnx | huh. dunno why I didn't think of this earlier: running: ssh -Y johnx@desktop from my n900 and inspecting its X server with xdpyinfo/xev/xset from my desktop :) |
| 11:02.22 | Jaffa | zerojay: http://flors.wordpress.com/2009/11/16/maemo-5-final-release-updated-sdk-and-firmware/ |
| 11:02.31 | hrw | but what is rx-71? |
| 11:02.40 | zerojay | Anyone else have the problem where sometimes the n900 forgets it's being charged by USB and just drains? |
| 11:02.50 | timeless_mbp | hrw: output from a random generator |
| 11:02.51 | johnx | hrw, it was mentioned in some kernel drivers. no word from nokia |
| 11:02.55 | timeless_mbp | in the spirit of 'maemo' itself :) |
| 11:03.34 | timeless_mbp | we sometimes generate random bits to see if people will spend months guessing |
| 11:03.34 | SpeedEvil | What is the spirit of maemo? Vodka? |
| 11:03.36 | johnx | zerojay, I've seen mine never *start* charging |
| 11:03.37 | timeless_mbp | and then we stop using them |
| 11:03.39 | Jaffa | zerojay: Yes. I believe it's fixed in 42-11 |
| 11:03.49 | jeremiah2 | hrw: Deeply curse apt-ftparchive since it is the default. :P |
| 11:03.52 | johnx | but I've never seen it start draining after initially charging |
| 11:04.00 | timeless_mbp | hi jeremiah |
| 11:04.04 | timeless_mbp | wanna write a build script for me? :) |
| 11:04.19 | timeless_mbp | doesn't want to write one |
| 11:04.29 | jeremiah2 | I rather have anthrax. :) |
| 11:04.36 | jeremiah2 | How about OBS? |
| 11:04.39 | timeless_mbp | hrm... that could be arranged |
| 11:04.43 | jeremiah2 | All the cool kids are using it. |
| 11:04.50 | timeless_mbp | does obs not use debian/rules ? |
| 11:05.01 | timeless_mbp | and is obs compatible w/ the maemo repos? |
| 11:05.03 | jeremiah2 | I builds debs |
| 11:05.12 | jeremiah2 | s/I/It/ |
| 11:05.14 | timeless_mbp | yeah, i need a debian/rules file :) |
| 11:05.21 | timeless_mbp | err |
| 11:05.33 | hrw | 10.5MB kernel diff |
| 11:05.42 | timeless_mbp | but i want to have a .deb src to give to the maemo repos |
| 11:05.48 | Stskeeps | hrw: linux-omap is included in that though |
| 11:06.00 | hrw | Stskeeps: I know |
| 11:06.31 | hrw | jeremiah2: apt-ftparchive just generate Packages/Sources files. |
| 11:06.47 | hrw | jeremiah2: webserver exports directories. and this is where @$^@^@@$#! is present |
| 11:07.08 | hrw | Stskeeps: I would prefer them to rather ship 2.6.28 + omap1 + rx51 patch |
| 11:07.12 | jeremiah2 | hrw: No - the repos are automatically organized |
| 11:07.17 | zaheerm | flashing emmc means everything under MyDocs will get erased right? |
| 11:07.25 | jeremiah2 | We don't do any manual moving around of stuff. |
| 11:07.39 | jeremiah2 | We don't do any manual dir naming |
| 11:08.03 | *** join/#maemo halves (n=higor@nat/ibm.br/x-qeclwymfzvbkpeze) |
| 11:08.05 | hrw | jeremiah2: and you also do not have any sorting in DirectoryIndex part of apache config |
| 11:08.11 | Jaffa | zaheerm: Anything under /home (including MyDocs) |
| 11:08.25 | jeremiah2 | hrw: You are not meant to browse the repos with a web browser. |
| 11:08.29 | zaheerm | Jaffa, ok, time to backup :) |
| 11:08.36 | timeless_mbp | jeremiah: aww, but it's so much fun |
| 11:08.41 | timeless_mbp | my web browser is wget |
| 11:08.44 | jeremiah2 | lol |
| 11:08.45 | hrw | jeremiah2: but I do. and that error was reported long time ago iirc |
| 11:08.47 | Stskeeps | jeremiah2: yeah, but there's insane people like me as well :P |
| 11:08.59 | timeless_mbp | jeremiah: you should see the scripts i use |
| 11:09.04 | hrw | jeremiah2: remember that there is a world outside of maemo |
| 11:09.10 | jeremiah2 | Why don't you guys use something like debmirror? |
| 11:09.24 | jeremiah2 | Or the tools already out there written for this type of thing |
| 11:09.32 | jeremiah2 | There is a world outside of your browser |
| 11:09.39 | hrw | jeremiah2: I have n810 and 770 working with non-Maemo systems and need some stuff from maemo sources for them |
| 11:09.55 | hrw | jeremiah2: sure.. and to grab kernel patches I need to debmirror whole maemo/os2008? |
| 11:09.59 | jeremiah2 | hrw: But maemo has to support lots of devices, people and machines. |
| 11:10.20 | ccooke | Hmm. Recommendation is to do a complete reflash on the prerelease n900 and don't restore backup, right? |
| 11:10.22 | hrw | maemo and lots of devices.... please, do not make me laugh ok? |
| 11:10.35 | jeremiah2 | So I think you ought to have just a little understanding that we need to provide a plain vanilla environment that works for as many UA's as possible. |
| 11:10.46 | hrw | jeremiah2: so far maemo has ~5 years and supports 5-6 devices |
| 11:11.17 | mgedmin | 5-6? |
| 11:11.25 | timeless_mbp | jeremiah: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/684044 =) |
| 11:11.29 | jeremiah2 | so what about the SDK? debian? Ubuntu? Q5? |
| 11:11.30 | hrw | 770, n800, n810, n810we, n900 is 5. 770-128M can be 6th but it was nokia internal |
| 11:12.19 | timeless_mbp | 770-128m? |
| 11:12.29 | johnx | hrw, wait, the question was directory sorting, right? what dir isn't sorted? |
| 11:13.13 | hrw | johnx: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/ |
| 11:13.27 | hrw | johnx: it is sorted by date instead of name. |
| 11:13.36 | hrw | timeless_mbp: 770 with 128MB ram |
| 11:13.45 | johnx | I have it sorted by name. I think your akamai mirror is temporarily confused |
| 11:13.49 | timeless_mbp | hrw: was this some third party hack or what? |
| 11:13.51 | hrw | jeremiah2: what is a problem in enabling FancyIndexes in apache name? |
| 11:14.08 | hrw | timeless_mbp: from what I got from in-nokia friends it was internal before n800 |
| 11:14.17 | hrw | s/apache name/apache config |
| 11:14.21 | timeless_mbp | oh |
| 11:14.23 | dmj726 | Does the new SDK still have the inverted colors bug? |
| 11:14.26 | timeless_mbp | yeah, it has another name |
| 11:14.45 | tbf | how long does it usually take until an autobuild package shows up on "apt-get update"? |
| 11:14.48 | timeless_mbp | hypothetically :) |
| 11:14.55 | hrw | johnx: I have z, libb, libj at the end |
| 11:14.58 | timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/ |
| 11:15.03 | timeless_mbp | maemo kernel :( |
| 11:15.36 | johnx | hrw, ah, didn't look all the way down. most of them are sorted correctly, most of the time |
| 11:16.23 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: so um |
| 11:16.28 | timeless_mbp | the repo now has fewer packages |
| 11:16.31 | hrw | http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo3.1/free/binary/ is very old dir and sorted randomly |
| 11:16.45 | timeless_mbp | clinkc-av-gnomevfs disappeared |
| 11:16.57 | timeless_mbp | clutter disappeared |
| 11:17.15 | timeless_mbp | oh no |
| 11:17.17 | timeless_mbp | sorry |
| 11:17.20 | timeless_mbp | reading diffs is hard :) |
| 11:17.32 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 11:17.36 | timeless_mbp | stupid diff directionality |
| 11:18.46 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 11:19.01 | timeless_mbp | ok, so i only care about things that have changed |
| 11:19.04 | timeless_mbp | that's doable... |
| 11:19.15 | hrw | timeless_mbp: use midnight commander to travel though diff |
| 11:19.31 | timeless_mbp | yuck |
| 11:19.33 | timeless_mbp | hates mc |
| 11:19.49 | mathiasg | anyone knows when the N900 gets released? |
| 11:20.12 | *** join/#maemo JPohlmann (n=jannis@xfce/core-developer/JPohlmann) |
| 11:20.31 | *** join/#maemo danielwilms (n=dwilms@147.243.155.42) |
| 11:20.38 | jeremiah2 | mathiasg: What is the N900? |
| 11:20.41 | ccooke | mathiasg: technically it is released. Some people might have it tomorrow, most of the pre-orders will be in the next few days |
| 11:20.46 | johnx | mathiasg, they delay it 2 months every time someone asks :( |
| 11:20.53 | jeremiah2 | mathiasg: It should be shipping already in certain parst. |
| 11:20.55 | Stskeeps | just like the pandora |
| 11:21.16 | johnx | Stskeeps, hey, they have *parts* of the finished case in their hands :D |
| 11:21.23 | johnx | it was a close thing down to the end |
| 11:21.54 | timeless_mbp | grumbles |
| 11:21.59 | timeless_mbp | ok, what the heck did they do to chavo |
| 11:22.07 | timeless_mbp | it looks like someone changed the checksums on files |
| 11:22.12 | timeless_mbp | shouldn't files in repos never change? |
| 11:22.34 | Stskeeps | nah, they can if they get updated |
| 11:22.35 | mathiasg | jeremiah2, any idea when I can expect it to not be advertised as a pre order though? |
| 11:22.38 | dmj726 | what about updates? |
| 11:22.56 | *** join/#maemo danilocesar (n=danilo@200.184.118.130) |
| 11:22.56 | timeless_mbp | http://pastebin.mozilla.org/684045 |
| 11:23.16 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: shouldn't the version of the package change? |
| 11:23.43 | Stskeeps | technically but if its rebuilt.. |
| 11:23.50 | johnx | aaaah, a change without a package version bump. that's poor practice |
| 11:24.07 | johnx | <- learned that in the early days of mer, IIRC |
| 11:24.13 | jeremiah2 | mathiasg: Where are you located? |
| 11:24.44 | timeless_mbp | johnx: it's my practice, but it's evil |
| 11:24.50 | mathiasg | jeremiah2, UK |
| 11:24.52 | timeless_mbp | so i like it as long as i'm the only one doing it :) |
| 11:25.23 | jeremiah2 | mathiasg: All I can say is that it should be soon, not sure why your particular vendor is giving you that message. |
| 11:25.39 | jeremiah2 | In Sweden I have heard it won't be out until December |
| 11:25.44 | johnx | if you're 100% sure no one downloaded before you did that sneaky "rebuild/update" you're in the clear. just like running a red light with no one around |
| 11:25.51 | johnx | it's still a bad habit |
| 11:25.56 | timeless_mbp | it's funny |
| 11:26.06 | timeless_mbp | in finland people will wait for red lights to change in the middle of nowhere |
| 11:26.11 | dmj726 | can the n900 do ogl es 1.1? |
| 11:26.14 | timeless_mbp | but clearly in @nokia, we don't follow that |
| 11:26.25 | Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: international company :P |
| 11:26.42 | timeless_mbp | jeremiah: oops, i forgot expando.pl in my pastebin |
| 11:26.45 | timeless_mbp | it's kinda important :) |
| 11:26.54 | *** join/#maemo pupnik_ (n=pupnik@p54B2CD20.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:27.59 | jeremiah2 | expando.pl? |
| 11:28.03 | johnx | dmj726, can you give me an easy way to check for you? |
| 11:28.03 | jeremiah2 | what be that? |
| 11:28.26 | dmj726 | I tried googling for it already |
| 11:28.36 | timeless_mbp | jeremiah: basically i have a set of 4 scripts that convert a Sources file into a sources tree |
| 11:28.41 | johnx | dmj726, pretend I have an n900. how would I find out? |
| 11:28.44 | timeless_mbp | one downloads the files listed in Sources( |
| 11:28.49 | timeless_mbp | one extracts and patches them |
| 11:28.52 | timeless_mbp | one renames them |
| 11:28.57 | timeless_mbp | and one kills the evil bits |
| 11:29.09 | dmj726 | I don't have an n900 |
| 11:29.15 | jeremiah2 | aha. |
| 11:29.19 | timeless_mbp | woohoo, expando finished :) |
| 11:29.30 | jeremiah2 | Is it in the same pastebin? |
| 11:29.39 | johnx | dmj726, that's my point. tell me how I can help you find out if this n900 I'm holding supports gl es 1.1 :) |
| 11:29.40 | timeless_mbp | it's the one i forgot |
| 11:29.50 | dmj726 | hmm |
| 11:30.02 | Stskeeps | theres gles 1.1 libs i think |
| 11:30.04 | Stskeeps | in sdk |
| 11:30.19 | johnx | also, glxinfo is not helpful in this regard :) |
| 11:30.38 | jeremiah2 | GLXINFOFAIL |
| 11:31.20 | ccooke | wonders how many people with prerelease n900s have flashed so far |
| 11:31.31 | dmj726 | look for gles 1.1 headers? |
| 11:31.37 | jeremiah2 | ccooke: I'm about to :) |
| 11:31.40 | timeless_mbp | http://pastebin.mozilla.org/684047 |
| 11:31.49 | alterego | Has /anyone/ done any OpenGL ES 2.0 stuff on the N900 yet? |
| 11:31.53 | johnx | ccooke, holding off til tomorrow. I don't want to stay up putting my contacts back on etc, tonight |
| 11:32.06 | alterego | It'd be nice if the wiki section had a bit more information on environment and maybe a really cheap sample. |
| 11:32.13 | zaheerm | ccooke, i am rsync-ing my /home :) |
| 11:32.17 | ccooke | johnx: so you're doing the full from-scratch reflash, then? |
| 11:32.21 | ccooke | zaheerm: ditto ;-) |
| 11:32.22 | johnx | dmj726, I have: /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so but not a GLESv1.so |
| 11:32.22 | zaheerm | ccooke, in preparation |
| 11:32.30 | johnx | ccooke, seems most sane |
| 11:32.35 | dmj726 | on the device? |
| 11:32.39 | ccooke | johnx: yeah. |
| 11:32.50 | johnx | I'd like to clear out the remnants of some extras-devel/extras-testing stuff in the process |
| 11:33.05 | johnx | dmj726, no headers on the device |
| 11:33.15 | johnx | (no headers for *anything* on the device) |
| 11:33.20 | dmj726 | oh |
| 11:33.33 | timeless_mbp | you could use http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/mesa/ :) |
| 11:33.46 | dmj726 | then how do you compile stuff on the device? |
| 11:33.46 | *** join/#maemo TomaszD (n=Tomasz@unaffiliated/tomaszd) |
| 11:33.55 | timeless_mbp | grumbles |
| 11:33.57 | timeless_mbp | why the heck? |
| 11:34.22 | timeless_mbp | curses |
| 11:34.24 | alterego | NFS mounted include directories? :) |
| 11:34.26 | timeless_mbp | stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid |
| 11:34.31 | *** join/#maemo shdb (n=shdb@80-218-240-206.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:34.32 | johnx | dmj726, you either install all the headers from the -dev packages (totally not supported) or you *don't* compile on device |
| 11:34.50 | timeless_mbp | and installing all the -dev packages is a terrible idea :) |
| 11:35.01 | dmj726 | okay |
| 11:35.02 | johnx | alterego, might be more sane to mount a microSD as /usr/include |
| 11:35.25 | timeless_mbp | heck, a symlink from /usr/include to VFAT would be ok |
| 11:35.26 | Shapeshifter | crashanddie: and I did so happily, talking to religious people about religious topics is mostly nonsensical and I've come to the conclusion that mockery is the best way of communicating with them. |
| 11:35.27 | timeless_mbp | well |
| 11:35.35 | dmj726 | so stick to python for on device programming |
| 11:35.36 | timeless_mbp | unless someone's evil and uses symlinks in /usr/include |
| 11:35.38 | alterego | Maybe, I guess it depends on your environment. |
| 11:35.40 | timeless_mbp | wonders how evil people are |
| 11:35.47 | timeless_mbp | if they're evil, make it a symlink to ext3 :) |
| 11:35.47 | hrw | timeless_mbp: which happens |
| 11:35.52 | timeless_mbp | hrw: ... |
| 11:36.50 | timeless_mbp | jeremiah / Stskeeps : what the heck are http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/find?string=cdbs-config_list ? |
| 11:37.37 | hrw | 12:37 hrw@home:include$ find . -type l|wc 11 11 160 |
| 11:37.53 | hrw | 11 symlinks in my /usr/include/ on Debian system |
| 11:38.04 | alterego | I think I prefer NFS, as it can integrate with my scratchbox environment. |
| 11:38.17 | jeremiah2 | timeless_mbp: Config files for CDBS? |
| 11:38.32 | johnx | dmj726, libgles1 seems to be available but not installed by default. that might be your answer :) |
| 11:38.34 | johnx | sleeps |
| 11:38.35 | timeless_mbp | that's helpful, what's a cdbs, and can i eat it? |
| 11:38.42 | dmj726 | okay |
| 11:38.51 | jeremiah2 | CDBS is delicious! |
| 11:39.04 | jeremiah2 | It is Yet Another way to build debian packages |
| 11:39.07 | jeremiah2 | And it is not nice. |
| 11:39.13 | *** join/#maemo TomaszD (n=tom@314-m.sm-rozstaje.pl) |
| 11:39.17 | jeremiah2 | It is not widely used |
| 11:39.26 | timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/tiff/debian/rules?mark=11-14#10 |
| 11:39.28 | hrw | hej TomaszD |
| 11:39.28 | timeless_mbp | no kidding |
| 11:39.53 | timeless_mbp | given there are only 10 consumers in mxr.maemo.org/fremantle |
| 11:40.08 | jeremiah2 | There was a talk at debconf this year about debhelper and its market share, debhelper and dpkg-buildpackage are the most common ways to build packages in debian. |
| 11:40.10 | TomaszD | hrw, hej. |
| 11:40.19 | jeremiah2 | So you can safely ignore CDBS :P |
| 11:40.38 | timeless_mbp | yeah, as long as i don't care about sqlite, cairo, atk, libnotify, pango, grep, or glade |
| 11:40.50 | jeremiah2 | Yeah - who cares about them? |
| 11:40.56 | timeless_mbp | |
| 11:41.02 | *** join/#maemo choppa (n=choppa@129.187.98.150) |
| 11:41.03 | jeremiah2 | And grep should not be CDBS . . . |
| 11:41.18 | dmj726 | isn't sqlite necessary for firefox? |
| 11:42.15 | timeless | we have our own copy |
| 11:42.39 | timeless | and the same fo cairo |
| 11:43.05 | hrw | and same for 90% of other libraries? |
| 11:43.19 | *** join/#maemo bcat (n=sj@p54B6FDFB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:43.19 | timeless | we used to have a copy of pango too |
| 11:44.09 | timeless | we *should* have made a copy of libnotify |
| 11:44.40 | hrw | and make mglibc |
| 11:45.14 | hrw | and then meglibc for maemo8 |
| 11:45.16 | timeless | those idiots changed their abi w/o bumping soname |
| 11:45.20 | TomaszD | I have a summit device, should I flash the fiasco image first and then the eMMC or the other way around, how should this be handled? |
| 11:45.52 | timeless | back up |
| 11:45.56 | timeless | copy off device |
| 11:45.59 | timeless | reflash both |
| 11:46.04 | _marcell_ | TomaszD: fiasco first, then eMMC |
| 11:46.06 | timeless | don't bother booting between |
| 11:46.13 | TomaszD | I have offsite backups :) alright |
| 11:46.16 | TomaszD | thanks |
| 11:46.33 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (n=user@147.83.182.9) |
| 11:46.43 | Stskeeps | so no -R flag |
| 11:46.50 | Stskeeps | before emmc is flashed :P |
| 11:46.57 | hrw | so backup of whole 32GB is suggested just for system update? |
| 11:47.07 | TomaszD | no, this is a special case. |
| 11:47.16 | *** join/#maemo tonikitoo (n=tonikito@189.2.128.130) |
| 11:47.19 | hrw | ok |
| 11:47.28 | TomaszD | no need to reflash the eMMC in the production devices. |
| 11:47.47 | hrw | and production devices are not yet shipped ;( |
| 11:48.11 | TomaszD | well, that's too bad, why don't you start a thread about it on talk.maemo ;) |
| 11:48.45 | TomaszD | Stskeeps, so where should I *not* put the -R flag? when flashing the fiasco image? |
| 11:48.51 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 11:48.55 | TomaszD | ok |
| 11:49.23 | hrw | TomaszD: please... I am not author of ITT new threads ;D |
| 11:49.46 | hrw | TomaszD: during 3 years of using maemo devices I did not posted more then 20 posts there probably |
| 11:49.54 | TomaszD | hrw, I know you, you're the openmoko guy from Poland, right? |
| 11:50.45 | hrw | TomaszD: no, I am one of first openmoko-gta01 owners in Poland and also my name is in many openmoko related places. but I never worked for openmoko directly |
| 11:51.00 | TomaszD | ok |
| 11:51.34 | hrw | TomaszD: but I also one of those who can enter #openmoko-devel channel |
| 11:52.03 | TomaszD | well, I wanted to get the openmoko, but... I'm glad I didn't actually. |
| 11:52.17 | TomaszD | I mean the freerunner |
| 11:52.20 | TomaszD | ok, bbl |
| 11:52.21 | hrw | TomaszD: I know |
| 11:54.22 | zaheerm | someone should tell nokia: http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/ gives not found |
| 11:55.21 | *** join/#maemo Dialekt (n=Dialekt@cpe-98-148-100-186.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 11:55.53 | kirma | the situation might be interpreted as an attempt by somebody to update the page... and fail at that :) |
| 11:56.20 | Stskeeps | gah.. what is the device or resource busy fix for flasher again? |
| 12:04.32 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (n=david@c-24-7-146-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 12:04.48 | ccooke | Hmm. backups done. Time to try reflashing. |
| 12:04.52 | jeremiah2 | What eMMC stand for? |
| 12:04.59 | zaheerm | ccooke, good luck |
| 12:05.33 | ccooke | cheers |
| 12:05.54 | RST38h | yahooo |
| 12:06.02 | RST38h | jeremiah^2: Your builtin memory card |
| 12:07.15 | kalikiana | Stskeeps, sudo modprobe -r cdc_phonet |
| 12:07.17 | kirma | calling it a "card" is an overstatement |
| 12:08.19 | tbf | strange, that the packages are not listed as published yet: http://maemo.org/packages/view/miniature/ |
| 12:08.31 | jeremiah2 | RST38h: Thanks |
| 12:08.46 | RST38h | Crawl/bot voting is now blocked. |
| 12:08.46 | RST38h | We're still working with the false votes. |
| 12:09.07 | RST38h | still got some before it was blocked though |
| 12:09.12 | jeremiah2 | RST38h: Yeah, we'll have to wait for Xfade to return and look through his code. |
| 12:09.22 | alterego | Hrm, I need to create a "meta" package for Ruby |
| 12:09.45 | RST38h | jeremiah: Well, why not delete all votes made since Nov 10? |
| 12:09.53 | jeremiah2 | alterego: Actually, that might be good idea. |
| 12:10.04 | jeremiah2 | RST38h: Seems a bit excessive. |
| 12:10.06 | RST38h | jeremiah: The snr ratio there is gonna be so high that you can disregard the correct votes |
| 12:10.13 | alterego | jeremiah2: are you a Ruby user? |
| 12:10.14 | jeremiah2 | no |
| 12:10.19 | Stskeeps | kalikiana: ? |
| 12:10.24 | alterego | Heh |
| 12:10.26 | RST38h | jeremiah: Not really: we are talking about 6 days of votes at most |
| 12:10.33 | jeremiah2 | alterego: No, perl user, but I think there are people who would like ruby on the device |
| 12:10.34 | alterego | runs the test suite |
| 12:10.37 | *** join/#maemo tiflsc (n=tiflsc@2001:638:904:ffc2:21e:8cff:fe0d:452c) |
| 12:10.43 | RST38h | jeremiah: Given how unfrequently people vote, you are not missing many |
| 12:10.54 | alterego | Yeah, I want to promote it to testing, but I figure having the meta-package now would be a good idea. |
| 12:10.54 | jeremiah2 | RST38h: Removing votes, for nearly any reason, is a bad idea. |
| 12:11.05 | alterego | It's in extras-devel at the moment. |
| 12:11.11 | jeremiah2 | alterego: Cool |
| 12:11.21 | RST38h | jeremiah: Again, no idea is a bad idea in 100% cases |
| 12:11.27 | alterego | I'm going to upload libhildon1-ruby |
| 12:11.28 | RST38h | (and I do include cannibalism :)) |
| 12:11.29 | Stskeeps | what was the conclusion on the google bot votes again? :P |
| 12:11.31 | alterego | tonight |
| 12:11.32 | jeremiah2 | heh |
| 12:11.38 | RST38h | Sts: They say they have fixed it |
| 12:11.40 | ccooke | Right. Flash the OS first, then the MMC - right? |
| 12:11.51 | kalikiana | Stskeeps, "what is the device or resource busy fix for flasher again?" |
| 12:12.34 | Stskeeps | kalikiana: hm, ok |
| 12:13.14 | kalikiana | That's what works for me at least |
| 12:13.23 | *** join/#maemo mikkov__ (n=mikkov@xdsl-83-150-82-126.nebulazone.fi) |
| 12:13.28 | ccooke | (Wait, the emmc is 41-1? I thought this was 42-11. Oh, different versions?) |
| 12:13.45 | jeremiah2 | I'm using 41-1 |
| 12:13.55 | jeremiah2 | But that is the 'plain vanilla' |
| 12:14.02 | jeremiah2 | There are others for other regions |
| 12:14.19 | jeremiah2 | 42-11 looks to be for the US |
| 12:14.27 | ccooke | those aren't the eMMC |
| 12:14.40 | jeremiah2 | Sorry, 42-11.002 |
| 12:14.51 | kalikiana | vanilla is not a region. think of it as without flavour |
| 12:14.51 | ccooke | the "plain vanilla" file is the eMMC. The three region-specific files are the OS |
| 12:15.11 | jeremiah2 | Yup |
| 12:19.32 | jeremiah2 | mce postinstall script failing in SDK |
| 12:22.59 | _marcell_ | jeremiah2: do you have any logs? It works for me, btw. |
| 12:24.02 | jeremiah2 | _marcell_: Not yet, trying to find out why |
| 12:24.20 | jeremiah2 | _marcell_: I think it may be persmissions issues, which I'm trying to solve now. :) |
| 12:26.21 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=user@83.149.10.134) |
| 12:26.22 | zaheerm | ok backup complete, going for the flashing |
| 12:26.27 | andre__ | i wonder once again how to call Target Milestones in Bugzilla... "5.0 (1.2009.42-11)" and "5.0 (2.2009.xx-yy)"? or "5.1 (2.2009.xx-yy)"? hmm, hmm, hmm... |
| 12:26.45 | *** part/#maemo wazd (n=user@83.149.10.134) |
| 12:26.53 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=user@83.149.10.134) |
| 12:27.36 | wazd | Heya all |
| 12:27.44 | lizardo | is it only me or garage SVN is veeery slow today ? |
| 12:28.26 | lizardo | it is taking like 10 min to commit a simple less than one 1KB commit |
| 12:28.33 | *** join/#maemo radic_ (n=radic@p4FDA844E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:28.39 | Stskeeps | wazd o/ |
| 12:28.52 | lizardo | seems to be hanging on on some commit hook |
| 12:30.46 | RST38h | Where do I get N900 firmware promised by Quim? |
| 12:30.49 | RST38h | Is there a URL? |
| 12:31.06 | *** join/#maemo bedboi (n=bedboi@c3lab.poliba.it) |
| 12:31.09 | *** join/#maemo waz1 (n=user@83.149.10.159) |
| 12:31.25 | TomaszD | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php |
| 12:31.29 | andre__ | RST38h, i guess http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php - haven't tried myself though |
| 12:31.38 | RST38h | Ahaaa! Thanks! |
| 12:31.54 | bedboi | hi guys, is developer program already closed? |
| 12:32.07 | RST38h | Got 200 karma points? |
| 12:33.56 | bedboi | nope |
| 12:34.04 | bedboi | just 56 |
| 12:34.08 | Jaffa | formulates his "you read tmo so I don't have to" plan a bit more |
| 12:34.47 | andre__ | bedboi, you need 200 |
| 12:34.50 | andre__ | to participate |
| 12:35.18 | bedboi | quite silly, i don't want to spam :) |
| 12:35.24 | bedboi | so i guess i won't participate |
| 12:35.26 | *** join/#maemo waz2 (n=user@83.149.10.33) |
| 12:35.49 | waz2 | Damned phone |
| 12:35.57 | Jaffa | I also believe it's closed. |
| 12:36.03 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (n=timeless@192.100.124.156) |
| 12:36.58 | bedboi | ok, too busy right now, is there any chance to get a discount for companies wanting to target N* ? |
| 12:37.13 | bedboi | for _SMALL_ companies :) |
| 12:37.16 | SpeedEvil | ponders metalstorm getting a few dozen devices. |
| 12:37.17 | Jaffa | bedboi: Contact Forum Nokia. It has device programmes ongoing for commercial entities |
| 12:37.49 | bedboi | DDP.program@nokia.com ? |
| 12:38.07 | Jaffa | bedboi: No. http://forum.nokia.com/ |
| 12:38.28 | Jaffa | Sign up for an account, and read up on "Commercial entity opportunities" |
| 12:38.32 | RST38h | bedboi: Let me clarify this |
| 12:38.48 | zaheerm | ok flashed.... |
| 12:38.50 | RST38h | bedboi: In order to develop for N900 you do not need any karma. SDK is totally free. |
| 12:39.02 | RST38h | bedboi: So is documentation. No NDAs, no license agreements, nothing. |
| 12:39.17 | jeremiah2 | RST38h++ |
| 12:39.21 | RST38h | bedboi: If you hoped for a free or discounted device, it is too late now |
| 12:39.33 | RST38h | bedboi: To get a discount on N900 you had to have 200 karma |
| 12:39.55 | SpeedEvil | Or get a 'free' device through a contract. |
| 12:40.05 | RST38h | bedboi: Having said that, the discount is nice but not drastic, and you are not getting the warranty |
| 12:40.10 | Jaffa | Or be a commercial partner. |
| 12:40.19 | timeless_mbp | or get one through FN? |
| 12:40.21 | SpeedEvil | Which is not actually expensive - where available - comparable to similar phones, maybe cheaper. |
| 12:40.31 | RST38h | bedboi: So, killing yourself over missing the opportunity is kinda pointless |
| 12:40.32 | mikhas | or find it at the back of a taxi in amsterdam |
| 12:40.35 | bedboi | RST38h, i know well. |
| 12:40.45 | timeless_mbp | mikhas: =) |
| 12:40.58 | bedboi | RST38h, i've been in the dev program since n700 |
| 12:41.09 | timeless_mbp | bedboi: a program that never existed? |
| 12:41.17 | timeless_mbp | wonders how one measures time from 'undefined' |
| 12:41.38 | bedboi | i've just been quite silent since n810 due to work :( |
| 12:41.43 | timeless_mbp | (the first product was the "Nokia 770", not the n700, and not the n770) |
| 12:41.48 | RST38h | bedboi: Do you have any applications to show ? |
| 12:41.58 | bedboi | timeless_mbp, quite pointless :) |
| 12:42.03 | TomaszD | ok, so I have the flasher saying Suitable USB device not found, waiting |
| 12:42.06 | TomaszD | which is expected |
| 12:42.10 | TomaszD | now what do I do? |
| 12:42.11 | RST38h | I.e. if you have been in the developer program since 770, you should have developed something? |
| 12:42.32 | bedboi | i did it :) |
| 12:42.49 | RST38h | you did what? |
| 12:43.02 | *** join/#maemo bleader (n=bleader@teenapping.lalooz.com) |
| 12:43.07 | bedboi | gpe-sudoku is something i wrote some time ago |
| 12:43.31 | *** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@nemein.suvilahti.nemein.net) |
| 12:43.31 | bedboi | it is quite stalled due to lack of time and feedback from users |
| 12:43.42 | *** join/#maemo anselmolsm (n=anselmo@200.184.118.130) |
| 12:44.40 | RST38h | ok |
| 12:44.55 | timeless_mbp | frowns |
| 12:45.04 | timeless_mbp | so um... about these stupid config_list files |
| 12:45.28 | RST38h | Oh shit, I managed to vote QGil's announcement BOTH up and down |
| 12:45.58 | mikhas | time to get rid of your fake accounts, eh? |
| 12:46.17 | timeless_mbp | RST38h: heh |
| 12:46.21 | andre__ | RST38h, split personality? ;-) |
| 12:47.12 | timeless_mbp | jeremiah / andre__ so about this stupid cdbs format |
| 12:47.34 | andre__ | context? |
| 12:49.38 | *** join/#maemo waz1 (n=user@83.149.10.47) |
| 12:50.21 | timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/grep/ |
| 12:50.25 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@162.84-49-132.nextgentel.com) |
| 12:50.34 | RST38h | andre: Whatever it is, it happens in Midgard |
| 12:50.35 | timeless_mbp | the fact that i have a .tar.gz as the only source thing mostly sucks |
| 12:50.51 | timeless_mbp | the question is should those files end up in grep/grep-2.5.1/ or in grep/ |
| 12:51.01 | andre__ | RST38h, also happened to me a few times in the package voting interface |
| 12:51.50 | *** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@86.56.57.78) |
| 12:52.52 | jeremiah2 | Should the device constantly be rebooting during flashing? |
| 12:53.21 | *** join/#maemo Meiz_TB (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:55.35 | *** join/#maemo bmidgley (n=bmidgley@c-76-27-89-77.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 12:56.15 | alterego | 1850 tests, 1343378 assertions, 0 failures, 1 errors |
| 12:57.05 | mikkov__ | Did anybody with pre-summit device get the firmware downloaded from tablets-dev? |
| 12:58.40 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 12:59.15 | alterego | Heh, running an emulator inside another emulator. |
| 12:59.21 | mikkov__ | tablets-dev doesn't accept my IMEI |
| 12:59.42 | alterego | I guess if I installed the SNES emulator there'd be a three emulator deep envrionment. |
| 13:01.17 | kalikiana | jeremiah2, it shouldn't. you should see a progress bar on the device, and a lot of text in the console. |
| 13:01.54 | jeremiah2 | kalikiana: Thanks. |
| 13:01.59 | jeremiah2 | That is not what I am seeing. |
| 13:02.11 | jeremiah2 | I wonder if I'm doin' it right. |
| 13:02.12 | jeremiah2 | heh |
| 13:02.19 | Jaffa | Bah, I can't get flasher-3.5.exe to work. |
| 13:02.22 | Jaffa | Will have to wait until I get home |
| 13:02.33 | jeremiah2 | Eeeew - you use Windows? =] |
| 13:02.56 | *** join/#maemo etrunko_N900 (n=etrunko@189.40.27.89) |
| 13:03.47 | mikkov__ | Jaffa: did tablets-dev accept your IMEI code from pre-summit device? |
| 13:03.48 | Jaffa | jeremiah2: At work. I've got it dual-booting to Ubuntu, but Evolution is too much of a pain with Exchange |
| 13:03.59 | Jaffa | mikkov__: It did. |
| 13:04.11 | Jaffa | 's is a pre-Nokia World device and it worked fine. |
| 13:04.26 | Lynoure | What's tablets-dev? |
| 13:04.34 | mikkov__ | hmm, I'll try again |
| 13:04.40 | *** join/#maemo ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 13:04.40 | *** mode/#maemo [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 13:04.44 | Lynoure | or, url, rather... |
| 13:04.54 | Lynoure | ah, lastlog <3 |
| 13:05.19 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 13:05.46 | mikkov__ | forgot to remove slashes |
| 13:06.25 | Jaffa | jeremiah2: Actually, there's an Ubuntu box <----- :) |
| 13:06.49 | zaheerm | jeremiah2, i had that after flashing the emmc was over |
| 13:07.00 | zaheerm | jeremiah2, a power cycle of the n900 fixed it |
| 13:07.28 | jeremiah2 | zaheerm: I hope that worked for me too. |
| 13:07.39 | jeremiah2 | What is a good way to check that I have hte updated firmware? |
| 13:07.41 | *** join/#maemo lardman (n=vircuser@78.150.68.23) |
| 13:07.43 | jeremiah2 | I'm being lazy now. |
| 13:07.58 | lardman | morning |
| 13:08.00 | timeless_mbp | settings>about product |
| 13:08.04 | jeremiah2 | lardster! |
| 13:08.08 | lardman | ah, jeremiah2, perhaps just the man |
| 13:08.12 | jeremiah2 | timeless_mbp: That is too damn easy |
| 13:08.25 | lardman | anyone know if there's a limit on the size of the source tarball the autobuilder will upload? |
| 13:08.30 | timeless_mbp | jeremiah2: if you're using my version, it's easier: settings>about :) |
| 13:08.38 | timeless_mbp | (are you using my version) |
| 13:08.45 | timeless_mbp | so um... |
| 13:08.45 | lardman | I tried to upload a set of files for pocketsphinx and it kept choking, saying tar was having a problem |
| 13:08.59 | jeremiah2 | oh, I'm at 41-10 |
| 13:09.14 | jeremiah2 | lardman: Bad tar |
| 13:09.20 | jeremiah2 | timeless_mbp: Think so. |
| 13:09.31 | timeless_mbp | if it said About, you have my strings :) |
| 13:09.35 | jeremiah2 | lardman: which distro? diablo or fremantle? |
| 13:09.55 | jeremiah2 | timeless_mbp: I saw maemo-chavo in the SDK too |
| 13:10.09 | timeless_mbp | jeremiah2: yeah, i can't read diffs very well |
| 13:10.14 | timeless_mbp | it wasn't a removal, it was an add |
| 13:10.17 | jeremiah2 | who can |
| 13:10.23 | timeless_mbp | the newer rev has more copies |
| 13:10.24 | zaheerm | mine says 42-11] |
| 13:10.25 | lardman | jeremiah2: fremantle |
| 13:10.35 | jeremiah2 | lardman: Hmmm. That is a newish problem. |
| 13:10.44 | timeless_mbp | andre__: you're going to love me, i think |
| 13:10.47 | lardman | well the tar.gz is ~22Mb |
| 13:10.49 | timeless_mbp | i have a bug to file about 'tar' |
| 13:10.52 | jeremiah2 | ah |
| 13:11.06 | jeremiah2 | 22 megs zipped eh? |
| 13:11.08 | lardman | add to that the .diff and .dsc |
| 13:11.10 | lardman | yeah |
| 13:11.21 | jeremiah2 | what are you uploading? Windows 7? |
| 13:11.22 | lardman | it's a beast, all the voice stuff I guess |
| 13:11.29 | lardman | nah, pocketsphinx |
| 13:11.31 | jeremiah2 | aha |
| 13:11.46 | jeremiah2 | Not a very accurate name. |
| 13:11.48 | lardman | I thought we should all have voices |
| 13:11.56 | jeremiah2 | Perhaps 'whole pants sphinx'? |
| 13:11.59 | lardman | jeremiah2: wasn't me who wrote it ;) |
| 13:12.17 | jeremiah2 | lardman: I will take a look, perhaps you can post it publically and I can try? |
| 13:12.20 | lardman | I think the whole pants/other-underwear sphinx is probably even bigger |
| 13:12.35 | jeremiah2 | If that fails, I can push it into fremantle by hand |
| 13:12.41 | jeremiah2 | with extreme prejudice |
| 13:12.42 | *** join/#maemo benno2 (n=benno2@host11-52-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 13:12.42 | lardman | jeremiah2: sure, can't just now though, will do so this evening if that's ok? |
| 13:12.44 | andre__ | timeless_mbp, for? |
| 13:12.52 | jeremiah2 | lardman: Evening sounds great :) |
| 13:12.52 | timeless_mbp | man tar :) |
| 13:12.54 | lardman | it needs optification still, so no major rush |
| 13:13.08 | timeless_mbp | BUGS |
| 13:13.09 | timeless_mbp | ... |
| 13:13.10 | jeremiah|afk | lardman: Cool, we'll talk this evening! |
| 13:13.16 | lardman | sounds good, cheers |
| 13:13.18 | timeless_mbp | ... This man page was first taken from Debian Linux and has since been loving updated here. |
| 13:13.24 | *** join/#maemo etrunko_N900 (n=etrunko@189.40.27.89) |
| 13:13.30 | timeless_mbp | s/loving/lovingly/ |
| 13:13.39 | timeless_mbp | that's the whole bug, one s/// :) |
| 13:13.43 | lardman | so is the new sw better than the last? |
| 13:13.54 | lardman | I saw all my bugs coming back to me with the version number changed ;) |
| 13:13.56 | timeless_mbp | can't figure out where here is |
| 13:14.00 | timeless_mbp | REPORTING BUGS |
| 13:14.00 | timeless_mbp | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:14.41 | *** join/#maemo ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 13:14.41 | *** mode/#maemo [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 13:15.02 | *** join/#maemo dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:15.07 | benno2 | hi, I have an N810 with RX-44_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_MR0. I tried to install sliderotate: http://mikie.dy.fi/maemo/sliderotate-diablo.install by typing it in the browser (it worked with older OS2008 versions) but now I just see the contents of the file. any idea ? |
| 13:15.33 | dneary | hi |
| 13:15.42 | zaheerm | dneary, hi |
| 13:15.49 | timeless_mbp | benno2: save it and then open it from file manager |
| 13:16.01 | lardman | wonders if he should file a bug about HFP not working fully in a BMW 730d |
| 13:16.11 | dneary | Hi zaheer |
| 13:16.19 | lardman | hi dneary |
| 13:16.20 | benno2 | timeless_mbp, thanks. trying now |
| 13:16.24 | *** join/#maemo bain_gec (n=bain_gec@wpa-n5-126.kthopen.kth.se) |
| 13:16.28 | dneary | hi lardman |
| 13:16.35 | zaheerm | lardman, a bug has been filed about volkwagen/audio group hfp |
| 13:16.42 | zaheerm | lardman, it may be same bug |
| 13:16.43 | dneary | Have you ever experimented with any of the dbus API documenting tools? |
| 13:16.48 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (n=magao@157.88.94.233) |
| 13:16.49 | lardman | zaheerm: do you have the bug#? |
| 13:16.54 | dneary | (or are docs not really your thing? ;)) |
| 13:16.55 | zaheerm | lardman, getting it |
| 13:16.56 | timeless_mbp | that means the server is broken |
| 13:17.01 | lardman | zaheerm: thanks |
| 13:17.21 | dneary | The great thing about people who hate writing docs is that they don't care that much that the docs are bad, as long as they have access to source code |
| 13:17.24 | lardman | timeless_mbp: some things work, like dialling a random number, but phone book doesn't |
| 13:18.06 | zaheerm | lardman, #5953 |
| 13:18.20 | lardman | thanks |
| 13:18.20 | zaheerm | or: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5953 |
| 13:18.22 | povbot | Bug 5953: no media sounds routed when connected to bluetooth headset in car (only works for phone calls) |
| 13:18.24 | *** join/#maemo ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 13:18.24 | *** mode/#maemo [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 13:18.32 | thp | does anyone know how to flash the final firmware release on a N900 HW rev. 2001? |
| 13:19.31 | TomaszD | thp, I'm working on this right now |
| 13:19.36 | lardman | how do you know the hw rev? |
| 13:19.39 | zaheerm | thp, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#Linux ? |
| 13:19.42 | lardman | or rather where is that from? |
| 13:19.47 | TomaszD | it won't work from there |
| 13:19.52 | TomaszD | needs a legacy image |
| 13:20.00 | TomaszD | I have the same HWID |
| 13:20.22 | zaheerm | must be a prototype device... |
| 13:20.39 | TomaszD | yes. |
| 13:22.40 | dneary | thp, You'll be in Barcelona, I hear? |
| 13:22.53 | *** join/#maemo Khertan (i=d4eabb96@gateway/web/freenode/x-mlfulovcdsjtidxn) |
| 13:22.56 | thp | dneary: yes, you too? |
| 13:23.07 | dneary | Looking that way |
| 13:23.08 | Khertan | Hello everyone ! |
| 13:23.15 | dneary | we'll be having a docs workshop there too |
| 13:23.16 | lardman | hi Khertan |
| 13:23.28 | Khertan | hi lardman |
| 13:23.35 | dneary | It'd be great if you could stop by - I've heard good things about your efforts to improve developer docs |
| 13:23.48 | lardman | Khertan: I was reading on the forum that some people think you've given up on your python todo/etc. apps |
| 13:24.00 | thp | hehe ;) yes, will do. is it on all three days? |
| 13:24.09 | Khertan | "think you've given up on your python todo/etc. apps" |
| 13:24.13 | Khertan | what you mean ? |
| 13:24.56 | lardman | well I am looking for a todo app, and was browing the threads, and some chap was saying that as you've not replied to him you've given up |
| 13:24.57 | lardman | etc |
| 13:25.18 | lardman | I'll have to see who it was and which thread |
| 13:25.27 | Khertan | oh ... really ? |
| 13:26.55 | Khertan | to be honest i didn't see anymail |
| 13:27.10 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@a88-112-120-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 13:27.23 | Khertan | but i didn't really read talk.maemo.org since 5 or 6 months |
| 13:27.39 | lardman | Khertan: I don't blame you, quite low SNR now |
| 13:27.42 | Khertan | as it s always full of troll and people complaining |
| 13:27.43 | lardman | hi ssvb |
| 13:27.52 | Khertan | lardman: yes i know |
| 13:28.01 | Khertan | SNR ? |
| 13:28.09 | ssvb | hi lardman |
| 13:28.31 | bleader | Signal to Noise Ratio I guess |
| 13:28.51 | lardman | yeah, sorry |
| 13:29.18 | Khertan | ah oki :) |
| 13:29.23 | Khertan | thx |
| 13:30.05 | bleader | Hi by the way, new here :) |
| 13:30.07 | ccooke | tries out the release firmware on MfE sync with google |
| 13:30.30 | lardman | Khertan: no idea where that thread was, don't worry, but will ping you if I ever find it again |
| 13:30.54 | Khertan | lardman: yep thanx :) |
| 13:31.20 | *** join/#maemo AndrewFBlack (n=ablack@232-220.dothan.cable.graceba.net) |
| 13:31.51 | lardman | wonders if MaemoPad+ is available for Fremantle? |
| 13:32.02 | AndrewFBlack | hates reading t.m.o anymore |
| 13:33.08 | Khertan | same |
| 13:33.14 | RST38h | yawns then moos |
| 13:33.26 | Stskeeps | AndrewFBlack: yeah,, hopefully it will be better soon |
| 13:33.50 | AndrewFBlack | 14 pages of posts and I only found 2 worth reading |
| 13:34.05 | mgedmin | AndrewFBlack, urls to those two? |
| 13:34.09 | lcuk | t.m.o is just like any forum, it is what you make it and is upto us to improve it |
| 13:34.17 | *** join/#maemo ptlo (n=senko@213.147.102.236) |
| 13:34.17 | mgedmin | want somebody else to read t.m.o and provide concise summaries |
| 13:34.29 | lardman | hmm |
| 13:34.38 | Lynoure | mgedmin: if you'd pay for it... |
| 13:34.46 | AndrewFBlack | mgedmin, couldn't find them again if i wanted to\ |
| 13:34.48 | Jaffa | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:34.55 | mgedmin | Lynoure, in karma points only ;) |
| 13:35.12 | mgedmin | yeah, I imagine it would be a thankless job |
| 13:35.23 | Jaffa | mgedmin: You have mail. |
| 13:35.31 | AndrewFBlack | lcuk, its hard for us to control people making stupid posts (god I'm starting to sound like GeneralAntilles lol) |
| 13:36.09 | Myrtti | moo |
| 13:36.18 | mgedmin | "Hopefully this shouldn't be too much work" ha ha haaa haa haaa |
| 13:36.19 | mgedmin | sorry |
| 13:36.24 | mgedmin | *mfff* |
| 13:36.41 | Jaffa | mgedmin: Well, people who read tmo already ;-) |
| 13:36.48 | Jaffa | mgedmin: Whereas some people read IRC |
| 13:36.48 | *** join/#maemo frade (n=ivan@esprx02x.nokia.com) |
| 13:36.50 | lcuk | of course, but the topics havent exactly been managed that well. if theres no1 leading with interesting stuff and having good discussions then it will cycle round |
| 13:36.56 | Myrtti | IRC isn't any better |
| 13:37.04 | Myrtti | just less used |
| 13:37.16 | *** join/#maemo chenca (n=chenca@200.184.118.130) |
| 13:37.30 | lcuk | puts head back in laptop anyway |
| 13:37.44 | andre__ | mgedmin, ask Nokia to create a community position called "Talkmaster"? :-P |
| 13:38.06 | *** join/#maemo ibane (n=juan@esprx01x.nokia.com) |
| 13:38.06 | Stskeeps | isnt that reggie? :P |
| 13:38.17 | andre__ | i think reggie has lotsa other stuff to do :-P |
| 13:38.23 | lardman | andre__: and equip him with a shotgun? |
| 13:39.07 | *** join/#maemo feri (n=feri@nemein.suvilahti.nemein.net) |
| 13:39.08 | andre__ | no, i prefer a slow death. |
| 13:39.26 | Khertan | :) |
| 13:39.38 | lardman | aim for the gut? |
| 13:39.39 | timeless_mbp | two golden spons! |
| 13:39.44 | timeless_mbp | s/on/oons/ |
| 13:39.53 | timeless_mbp | gives up |
| 13:40.04 | Lynoure | there is no golden spoon. |
| 13:40.10 | lardman | ~curse the lack of a heirachical todo app |
| 13:40.11 | infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, the lack of a heirachical todo app ! |
| 13:41.08 | Khertan | a question ... why does there is 3 different firmware for the n900 ? |
| 13:41.34 | lcuk | todo: |
| 13:41.34 | lcuk | * write heirachical todo app |
| 13:41.34 | lcuk | * * make backend |
| 13:41.34 | lcuk | * * make ui |
| 13:41.34 | lcuk | * * * drink wine |
| 13:41.34 | lcuk | * * test |
| 13:41.42 | Khertan | Maemo 5 USA variant for Nokia N900 <-> Maemo 5 Middle East and North Africa <-> Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900 |
| 13:41.45 | mgedmin | where _is_ the firmware for the n900? |
| 13:42.02 | Khertan | lcuk: hum ... i ve the same ... but with finish pygtkeditor before :) |
| 13:42.13 | Khertan | mgedmin: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php |
| 13:42.15 | lardman | lcuk: yeah, but I need one that can have multiple upstream dependencies, and prefereably on that will re-arange the whole tree once a task is done |
| 13:42.35 | lardman | Khertan: perhaps the map stuff on the eMMC> |
| 13:43.02 | lardman | Khertan: does mtodo do heirarchies the ? |
| 13:43.09 | Khertan | lardman: nope :) |
| 13:43.10 | lardman | wonders about the spelling of that one |
| 13:43.19 | Khertan | with s :) |
| 13:43.21 | Khertan | mTodos :) |
| 13:43.36 | Khertan | because there is always many todo to do |
| 13:43.37 | Khertan | :) |
| 13:43.46 | lardman | hmm, will have to add "write heirachical ToDo" app as a root dep to all the other work then |
| 13:43.51 | timeless_mbp | ponders |
| 13:44.24 | Khertan | lardman: nope ... before : write the source code editor to write the todo apps |
| 13:44.24 | tbf | wtf!? |
| 13:44.25 | tbf | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/Release |
| 13:44.35 | tbf | there are no packages in that file |
| 13:44.37 | mgedmin | woohoo! |
| 13:44.43 | tbf | compare with http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/fremantle/Release |
| 13:44.49 | suihkulokki | jjo: ^ |
| 13:45.06 | Khertan | it s seems that extras devel has been cleaned :) |
| 13:45.16 | timeless_mbp | probably a good thing |
| 13:45.29 | lardman | hmm, to rebuild against the new SDK? |
| 13:45.40 | *** join/#maemo peter32 (i=3e501154@gateway/web/freenode/x-dyzbiptocvrnumvl) |
| 13:46.21 | tbf | Khertan: more seems like a build bot problem. dunno. |
| 13:46.58 | jjo | I've got nothing to do with extras |
| 13:47.02 | Stskeeps | out of space? |
| 13:47.10 | jjo | I did break the sdk repos for a while though ;) |
| 13:47.21 | lardman | probably my attempt to upload pocketsphinx build files ;) |
| 13:48.45 | suihkulokki | jjo: ok. I just know you asked about Release files and soon after someone complained that they broke ;) |
| 13:48.59 | Lynoure | Flashing again probably wipes all my data again? |
| 13:49.06 | Lynoure | Or has it been done better now? |
| 13:49.34 | *** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@stgt-5d84b0a9.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 13:49.42 | Khertan | or a bug in the update by the bot |
| 13:49.52 | tbf | andre__: do you know if some maintenance work was scheduled for extras-devel? |
| 13:50.09 | Khertan | tbf: ouch ... "boss comming in the room lag" :) |
| 13:50.11 | suihkulokki | Lynoure: now maemo has "seameless sofware updates" aka apt-get |
| 13:50.22 | andre__ | tbf, according to http://www.qaiku.com/channels/show/maemork/ I assume that jeremiah was looking into it |
| 13:50.33 | *** join/#maemo zigo_ (n=zigo@116.225.202.161) |
| 13:50.39 | mgedmin | Khertan, thanks! |
| 13:50.41 | suihkulokki | Lynoure: but you can still flash, and when flashing settings are lost unless backuped first |
| 13:50.57 | mgedmin | is a bit surprised not to see that link in the /topic |
| 13:51.00 | tbf | andre__: what kind of channel is qaiku again? |
| 13:51.12 | *** topic/#maemo by mgedmin -> Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Maemo-Barcelona Long Weekend - Registrations open - http://tinyurl.com/ydv6p62 | FIRMWARE IS HERE AT LAST! http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php |
| 13:51.23 | Shapeshifter | Has any n900 owner in here tried a cover? Like something like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180433309677 |
| 13:51.39 | *** join/#maemo Disconnected (n=Shbt@78.180.28.202) |
| 13:51.39 | Disconnected | [Join] 3 Kuru$Luk Ýnsana 5 Kuru$Luk Deqer VerirSen KaLan 2 Kuru$ada Seni Satar.! |
| 13:51.41 | Disconnected | [Part] kimSe kendini pahaLýdan Satmasýn herkezin indirim günLerini biLiyorum..!! |
| 13:51.41 | *** part/#maemo Disconnected (n=Shbt@78.180.28.202) |
| 13:51.41 | tbf | andre__: http://www.qaiku.com/channels/show/maemork/view/1decff155d2322ccff111de8434898895afb7c5b7c5/ - that's posted three days ago |
| 13:51.47 | Khertan | Shapeshifter: cover is useless i always use it :) |
| 13:52.08 | Shapeshifter | Khertan: yeah but that's a cover that is always on |
| 13:52.16 | Khertan | from the previous firmware the battery consomption have been greatly improve |
| 13:52.28 | Khertan | i ll check with the final one :) |
| 13:52.46 | *** join/#maemo felipec (n=felipec@esprx01x.nokia.com) |
| 13:52.55 | Jaffa | "To flash the bootloader, you have to supply the X-Loader image" |
| 13:53.18 | kirma | what's the point of such a cover? does it provide real protection if the device is dropped to hard (concrete) floor? |
| 13:53.29 | kirma | seems so much a iphoneism to me. |
| 13:53.34 | TomaszD | Jaffa, which HW revision do you have? |
| 13:53.46 | kirma | maybe they could sell it pink with encrusted "jewels" :) |
| 13:54.23 | ccooke | Khertan: you've noticed battery improvements already? |
| 13:54.28 | ccooke | Khertan: when did you flash? |
| 13:54.29 | Jaffa | TomaszD: Pre-summit |
| 13:55.05 | Khertan | ccooke: one weeks ago |
| 13:55.05 | Khertan | :) |
| 13:56.50 | kirma | the question about protection provided by such a cover wasn't rhetorical, I really wonder about it. how much more than just minor scratch protection such a thing does give? |
| 13:56.56 | ccooke | Khertan: to 42-11? |
| 13:57.33 | Khertan | nope it was an older one from the week 42 |
| 13:58.41 | TomaszD | kirma, it's designed this way so that when you drop your N900 it doesn't actually break, but just fall into three pieces you can put together again |
| 13:58.44 | Khertan | flashing in progress :) |
| 13:59.03 | tbf | jeremiah: any idea what happend to the Release file of extras-devel? |
| 13:59.08 | tbf | jeremiah: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/Release |
| 13:59.59 | kirma | I've failed to break a single phone until now, but also I guess E90 might be surprisingly ruggerized (it has cracks after dozen drops to asphalt, but works fine...) |
| 14:00.37 | Khertan | kirma: my 3210 resist to a drop at 160Km on a bike |
| 14:00.38 | Khertan | :) |
| 14:00.56 | Khertan | 160km/h |
| 14:01.05 | Khertan | but i ll not try with my n900 |
| 14:01.07 | pupnik_ | i can oicture that |
| 14:01.13 | pupnik_ | lol! |
| 14:01.13 | kirma | wondered about those kelvin-meters |
| 14:01.45 | lcuk | i was wondering more how he cycled up a 160kilometer hill |
| 14:01.51 | Khertan | :) |
| 14:01.53 | Khertan | lol |
| 14:01.56 | andre__ | tbf, yeah. so? :-) |
| 14:02.05 | andre__ | tbf, jeremiah should know |
| 14:02.09 | Khertan | hum ... 100miles by hour :) |
| 14:02.10 | kirma | but still... I sort of find the idea of phone requiring a specific shell to survive ordinary life is odd |
| 14:02.41 | kirma | either it's like a doll to you or it's badly designed (iphone comes to mind on both cases;) |
| 14:02.45 | timeless_mbp | Khertan: getting a bike up to 160Km above the earth would be a neat trick |
| 14:03.00 | *** join/#maemo bedboi (n=bedboi@host151-255-static.12-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:03.06 | Khertan | timeless_mbp: clearly ;) |
| 14:03.23 | timeless_mbp | frowns |
| 14:03.23 | alterego | You know hte XmaemoX tag to add to package versions, what's the first X represent? |
| 14:03.30 | pupnik_ | if any of us does it, Khertan will |
| 14:03.31 | Khertan | kirma: you mean like the iphone require a portable climatization ? |
| 14:03.50 | timeless_mbp | I think the first X is actually from the preceding thing's versioning :) |
| 14:04.00 | alterego | Yeah, that's what I thought |
| 14:04.07 | Stskeeps | alterego: a way to be replaced if upstream gets put in |
| 14:04.34 | Khertan | youhou ... let s see what s new in the new firmware |
| 14:04.37 | kirma | or even like a baby - you dedicate your life to your device so it can stay unscratched and well kept ;) |
| 14:06.30 | kirma | N900 cover might be interesting to try if it's cheap enough, though. anyway, accidents happen, phones are replaceable (at least if backups are good) - real babies are not. better concentrate on those things that really can't be replaced. :) |
| 14:07.37 | *** join/#maemo jayabharath (n=a0866114@nat/ti/x-xcgsyxyiwxdgyefc) |
| 14:08.49 | mgedmin | already managed to scratch his N900 screen |
| 14:08.51 | mgedmin | :/ |
| 14:09.02 | *** join/#maemo ArSa (n=ArSa@nc-71-0-121-232.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 14:09.54 | kirma | screen protector is something I do care to get... likelihood of getting a scratch there, and annoyance caused by one are considerable. |
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| 14:10.50 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@88.112.120.50) |
| 14:11.00 | kirma | I believe a phone shell would otherwise just protect from aesthetic scratches... don't really believe it improves the rigidity on truly brutal drops. |
| 14:11.14 | zaheerm | weird i no longer get my telepathy availability and status in status area |
| 14:11.27 | *** join/#maemo petrux_ (n=petrux@82.53.224.16) |
| 14:12.27 | RST38h | Googlebot continues "voting" for Maemo5 apps =( |
| 14:12.38 | RST38h | Just got another 7 hits |
| 14:13.50 | kirma | those should be really POST form buttons |
| 14:14.03 | alterego | Indeed |
| 14:14.16 | alterego | hyperlinks should never change state :P |
| 14:14.47 | *** join/#maemo letusgothen_ (n=letusgot@75-119-241-118.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 14:14.51 | kirma | remember the horror stories of having a web site management tools based on links and robots coming around and deleting the whole web site... |
| 14:15.05 | alterego | Heh |
| 14:15.17 | RST38h | coooool |
| 14:15.44 | *** join/#maemo sjaensch (n=sj@p54B6E720.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:16.58 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=Faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12) |
| 14:17.06 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=rsalveti@200.184.118.130) |
| 14:17.14 | Stskeeps | lo qwerty12 |
| 14:17.26 | qwerty12 | Hiya, Stskeeps |
| 14:17.43 | hrw | bye |
| 14:18.14 | lardman | bbiab |
| 14:19.03 | Shapeshifter | kirma: well I'm not sure how much protection _that_ cover would give, that's why I was asking earlier, but I'm using a cover for my 160gb iPod and I've been using it for two years already and it doesn't have a single scratch. It looks like brand new out of the box. |
| 14:19.20 | SpeedEvil | yeah - well - looks like |
| 14:19.31 | SpeedEvil | It does little for major knocks. |
| 14:19.40 | SpeedEvil | It will of course protect the paint. |
| 14:19.44 | SpeedEvil | Do you care about that though |
| 14:20.43 | Shapeshifter | SpeedEvil: i think most devices/phones wouldn't break if dropped when protected by a case. The shock/G-forces itself is usually not the problem but the fact that the casing of the device falls apart |
| 14:21.07 | *** join/#maemo anselmolsm_ (n=anselmo@200.184.118.130) |
| 14:21.12 | SpeedEvil | I tend to lose most devices by sitting on them. |
| 14:21.17 | Shapeshifter | if you drop the display on a pointy stone that might be different |
| 14:21.24 | Shapeshifter | SpeedEvil: >.> ouch. |
| 14:21.30 | timeless_mbp | at 600EUR, i recommend not losing your items that way |
| 14:21.48 | SpeedEvil | That'swhyu if my n900 arrives - I'm purchasing accidental damage cover. |
| 14:22.08 | derf | I like the "if". |
| 14:22.26 | SpeedEvil | derf: I did the stupid discount coupon route. |
| 14:22.33 | SpeedEvil | So I'm paying half priceish. |
| 14:22.44 | *** join/#maemo eean (n=ian@amarok/developer/eean) |
| 14:22.44 | timeless_mbp | frowns |
| 14:22.47 | SpeedEvil | hence I'm not 100% sure it will in fact arrive. |
| 14:22.53 | SpeedEvil | And not be cancelled. |
| 14:23.03 | ccooke | That's odd. |
| 14:23.35 | RST38h | No sign from DDP yet? |
| 14:23.40 | eean | I'm trying to run the flash-3.5 on the n900, it keeps saying "Unable to enumerate USB devices!" when I turn the n900 on. |
| 14:23.53 | ccooke | I must have misread something: I recall qgil saying in the forum that maemo extras was being shipped enabled... but it's not enabled on this firmware image |
| 14:23.55 | timeless_mbp | eean: um |
| 14:24.07 | timeless_mbp | are you running the flasher from the XTerminal in the device? |
| 14:24.10 | mgedmin | RST38h, I haven't received any indications that the DDP knows I still exist |
| 14:24.11 | mikhas | lol |
| 14:24.15 | eean | timeless_mbp: heh no :) |
| 14:24.17 | timeless_mbp | because the flasher is to be run from your desktop computer... |
| 14:24.20 | eean | I know |
| 14:24.22 | ccooke | eean: I've seen that on a couple of things |
| 14:24.26 | RST38h | mgedmin: have you ordered? |
| 14:24.33 | timeless_mbp | eean: are you su? |
| 14:24.43 | mgedmin | RST38h, yep, last week |
| 14:24.43 | eean | timeless_mbp: I said it happens when the device turns on... so it wouldn't work if I was running it on the device. yep I have sudo |
| 14:24.48 | ccooke | eean: most recently an ubuntu laptop running karmic, but that was a month or more before karmic was released |
| 14:24.57 | eean | running opensuse 11.1 here |
| 14:25.05 | RST38h | mgedmin: Well, they at least know of your bank account or credit card |
| 14:25.13 | ccooke | eean: kernel? |
| 14:25.20 | mgedmin | they have reserved 251 EUR (from Nokia Italy for some reason) |
| 14:25.28 | mgedmin | maybe because lt looks like it |
| 14:25.33 | eean | Linux wasabi 2.6.31.5-0.1-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT 2009-10-26 15:49:03 +0100 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 14:25.39 | RST38h | They did it from Nokia UK in London for me |
| 14:25.39 | timeless_mbp | eean: sorry, your sentence has so many failures that i couldn't recover properly |
| 14:25.49 | toggles_w | lol |
| 14:25.52 | RST38h | mgedmin: You may be getting the IT version ;) |
| 14:25.58 | Khertan | mgedmin: i ve see nothing |
| 14:25.59 | mgedmin | I'm afraid of that, actually |
| 14:26.06 | Khertan | mgedmin: in my bank account |
| 14:26.13 | mgedmin | Khertan, have you ordered? |
| 14:26.16 | ccooke | (Hmm. *this* karmic laptop just worked on my n900.) |
| 14:26.21 | mgedmin | or, rather, when? |
| 14:26.22 | eean | timeless_mbp: oh heh I see the ambigiousness now :) |
| 14:26.24 | Khertan | mgedmin: the ddp one yep |
| 14:26.45 | *** join/#maemo korius (n=quassel@dslb-094-216-223-115.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:27.02 | Khertan | and i ve confirmation page for paiement ... but no confirmation email ... nothing in bank account ... i 'm just waiting |
| 14:27.03 | eean | ccooke: karmic probably runs 2.6.31 as well. I have some intrepid laptops in the house, I could just use one of those. |
| 14:28.18 | *** join/#maemo injunear_ (n=noah@pool-71-113-239-150.herntx.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 14:28.42 | ccooke | eean: karmic *does* run 2.6.31 (2.6.31-14-generic to be precise) |
| 14:28.47 | *** join/#maemo korius (n=quassel@dslb-094-216-223-115.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:29.08 | Lynoure | hmm, "Invalid FIASCO subimage id (00)" |
| 14:29.18 | eean | I also have a windows laptop sitting next to me, but NSU doesn't seem to have the n900 unlike what the wiki says. |
| 14:30.31 | Lynoure | Anyone got this same error with the Global release? |
| 14:30.46 | Lynoure | I think that's the version I should use, being a Finn. |
| 14:31.07 | mgedmin | Khertan, I still haven't received the promised email that the DDP device is available ;) |
| 14:31.52 | Khertan | mgedmin: ah yep ... true |
| 14:32.10 | Khertan | mgedmin: maybe it s the reason for not getting a confirmation when buying it |
| 14:32.15 | Khertan | mgedmin: not really available |
| 14:32.37 | mgedmin | could be my spam filters... although I got the email that told me they will email me when the N900 is out |
| 14:32.50 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (n=millenom@93-35-144-166.ip55.fastwebnet.it) |
| 14:33.14 | mgedmin | I'd be chewing nails and furniture if I didn't have the amsterdam loaner device |
| 14:33.31 | *** join/#maemo waite (n=quassel@206.83.81.178.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 14:33.35 | mgedmin | going there (out of my pocket) was the best decision ever |
| 14:33.58 | zaheerm | mgedmin, same |
| 14:34.11 | zaheerm | mgedmin, it was random for me too :) |
| 14:34.13 | Khertan | mgedmin: me too ... hopefully i got one at amsterdam too :) |
| 14:34.31 | ccooke | Khertan: you aren't sure? |
| 14:34.45 | Khertan | ccooke: sure of what ? |
| 14:35.05 | Stskeeps | qwerty12: i'll get you a cookie if you figure out how to hack the dialog that pops up on usb connect |
| 14:35.12 | ccooke | Khertan: you said "hopefully i got one at amsterdam too" |
| 14:35.23 | Khertan | :) |
| 14:35.30 | ccooke | Khertan: and I am being mean and pointing out the ambiguity |
| 14:35.36 | Khertan | :) |
| 14:36.00 | qwerty12 | Stskeeps: The dialog is contained in the USB status bar plugin; closed source |
| 14:37.26 | Stskeeps | k |
| 14:37.53 | Stskeeps | wonders if anyone made n900 send audio over pulseaudio to another host yet |
| 14:40.32 | mgedmin | Stskeeps, I think somebody mentioned doing that here on this channel |
| 14:40.38 | mgedmin | or maybe on planet.maemo.org |
| 14:40.48 | tbf | Stskeeps: does "car radio" count as "another host"? |
| 14:41.10 | mgedmin | tbf, only if you can ssh into your car radio |
| 14:41.48 | tbf | mgedmin: bah... but... but... in this context? ;-) |
| 14:42.16 | Lynoure | seems my RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin is also not 161787293 in size but 167796125, bizarre |
| 14:43.10 | tbf | Stskeeps: do you have any actual issues, or do you just ask out of curiosity? |
| 14:43.26 | mikhas | as if the md5sums on that fw site existed for a reason ... |
| 14:43.39 | Stskeeps | tbf: let's say i want to move music playing on my n900 to my media centre at home for instance |
| 14:43.44 | Stskeeps | or my media centre to my n900 |
| 14:44.16 | Lynoure | is 161787293 really the right size? |
| 14:44.54 | tbf | Stskeeps: guess there the best approach is using uPnP |
| 14:45.23 | tbf | Stskeeps: nokia's media player already supports the client role out of the box... |
| 14:45.43 | tbf | Stskeeps: and to feed your media center you could install zeenix' rygel |
| 14:45.43 | *** join/#maemo ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 14:45.43 | *** mode/#maemo [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 14:45.54 | mgedmin | omfg |
| 14:45.59 | mgedmin | does ls -l /mnt/mnt/.documents/User Guides/.en |
| 14:45.59 | mikhas | again, check the md5: 24d60d2f091a4f77620f5cc689272153 RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin |
| 14:46.06 | mgedmin | eeek, 128-bit GUIDs as filenames! |
| 14:46.27 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=user@83.149.9.208) |
| 14:46.36 | mgedmin | this is interesting and unexpected: User_Guide_Lithuanian_index.html |
| 14:46.46 | *** join/#maemo promulo (n=romulo@189.71.106.32) |
| 14:47.33 | qwerty12 | mgedmin, yeah, you must be their only Lithuanian user... |
| 14:48.01 | mgedmin | of a n900, pretty definitely |
| 14:48.10 | mgedmin | there are a few n8x0s out here |
| 14:48.17 | Lynoure | mikhas: wrong sum... but I cannot figure out whether it is wrong file on the site or something repeatedly going wrong when downloading it. |
| 14:49.23 | RST38h | EVERYBODY HIDE: Engadget reviews N900 |
| 14:49.39 | qwerty12 | RST38h: "Our verdict: It's no iPhone." |
| 14:49.42 | *** join/#maemo Kusk (n=a@2904ds1-sdb.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 14:50.25 | kirma | primary feature of a respectable phone is that it has capacitive touchscreen! |
| 14:50.28 | RST38h | qwerty: As a matter of fact, they are somewhat favorable |
| 14:50.31 | kirma | and fruit logo. |
| 14:50.39 | RST38h | qwerty: They say the browser is the best on the market, iPhone included |
| 14:50.58 | RST38h | qwerty: They like the CPU. About the UI overal they politely says that it is the best Maemo UI ever. |
| 14:51.01 | mikhas | yeah, because you can install ad-block for it |
| 14:51.06 | kirma | somehow, only one manufacturer seems to fulfill these stringent and rational requirements. |
| 14:51.18 | RST38h | reread what he just wrote and counted typos |
| 14:51.27 | RST38h | Horrible. |
| 14:51.35 | qwerty12 | RST38h: s/favorable/favourable/ |
| 14:51.59 | RST38h | qwerty: "they says", yea |
| 14:52.00 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (i=93533b49@gateway/web/freenode/x-anrfvfcrxzwemoor) |
| 14:52.25 | javispedro | reads about something relating engadget, review and n900 |
| 14:52.34 | qwerty12 | RST38h: I kinda have mixed feelings about the browser, myself. The gestures and the interface is brilliant, but it's pretty slow at actually updating the screen when going back, for example |
| 14:52.34 | RST38h | qwerty: but at least I use "aluminium" and "nuclear" =) |
| 14:52.50 | RST38h | qwerty: Well, it still has to redraw, really |
| 14:52.59 | *** join/#maemo waz1 (n=user@83.149.9.159) |
| 14:53.07 | qwerty12 | RST38h: Yes, but even the N810 wasn't this slow at doing it :) |
| 14:53.29 | mikhas | Lynoure, my image was downloaded correctly |
| 14:53.36 | RST38h | N810 was horribly slow |
| 14:53.41 | waz1 | Stupid phone |
| 14:53.42 | mgedmin | qwerty12, pressing backspace on the hw kbd makes it go back a bit faster |
| 14:53.46 | RST38h | It just got stuck when scrolling :) |
| 14:53.54 | RST38h | moo wazd |
| 14:53.58 | mgedmin | but yeah, it usually redownloads instead of showing the cached image |
| 14:53.59 | Lynoure | mikhas: might be some weird vm issue then... will try with a real computer. |
| 14:54.07 | waz1 | Reheya all |
| 14:54.12 | mgedmin | which is painful for ajaxy sites with "load more data" buttons |
| 14:54.15 | RST38h | mgedmin: not really, not inside the same page |
| 14:54.29 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (n=hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 14:54.34 | RST38h | mgedmin: between pages, yes, it does not cache a lot, for some reaosn |
| 14:55.00 | mikhas | I dont think it caches at all |
| 14:55.38 | RST38h | Anyone tried about:config to change caching policies? |
| 14:55.40 | *** join/#maemo El_Mutanto (n=petteri@dsl-hkibrasgw1-fe33f900-197.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:55.55 | mikhas | I think I could make an easy connection to data plans ... |
| 14:56.02 | kirma | the browser should really maintain some sort of minimal "page engine" state even on preceding pages and just freeze activity on them, then show the cached image first and recover the state (including javascript) to give illusion of snappiness |
| 14:56.16 | kirma | but that'd require considerable amount of hacking the browser internals... |
| 14:56.18 | RST38h | Oh, the browser vertical mode is enabled now!!! |
| 14:56.23 | RST38h | salivates |
| 14:56.41 | Stskeeps | in your fw image? |
| 14:56.49 | RST38h | No, wrong |
| 14:56.51 | RST38h | that is ww46 |
| 14:56.51 | derf | kirma: Not to mention considerable amounts of memory. |
| 14:57.06 | kalikiana | it's a pity it hides the address in portrait mode |
| 14:57.19 | mikhas | memory? your data connection is faster than your sd? |
| 14:57.27 | kirma | derf: not necessarily, although quite probably so if those pages are something like moronbook |
| 14:57.27 | javispedro | bah. boring review |
| 14:57.33 | javispedro | i expected more gore |
| 14:57.50 | mgedmin | the official preferences let me specify the size of the memory cache; I think I set it to auto |
| 14:57.57 | mgedmin | sometimes it does cache, but very very rarely |
| 14:58.12 | RST38h | Nearly 80 percent of security products fail to perform as intended when first tested and generally require two or more cycles of testing before achieving certification, according to a new ICSA Labs report |
| 14:59.09 | derf | RST38h: They get certified that fast? |
| 14:59.21 | RST38h | guess so |
| 14:59.32 | RST38h | I do not think they ever work though |
| 14:59.40 | RST38h | never seen a working one |
| 14:59.51 | derf | Yeah, I think that says more about the certification process than the products. |
| 14:59.59 | *** join/#maemo GuySoft_nokia (n=Guysoft@41.179.0.1) |
| 15:00.16 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=Valerio@bl5-196-134.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 15:00.35 | RST38h | Moo VDVsx |
| 15:00.47 | VDVsx | hey RST38h :) |
| 15:01.05 | RST38h | derf: They certify snake oil by requirements specifically drafted to certify snake oil |
| 15:01.11 | *** join/#maemo ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 15:01.11 | *** mode/#maemo [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 15:01.26 | RST38h | derf: So, nothing surprising |
| 15:02.16 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk) |
| 15:02.24 | derf | Well, security is mostly a state of mind, anyway. So it seems appropriate to me. |
| 15:03.17 | *** join/#maemo lardman (n=vircuser@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman) |
| 15:03.44 | kirma | there are security products that really do valuable stuff. but there are also attecks that are challenging to detect or prevent unless you have infinite product development resources and infinite amount of appliance computing power. |
| 15:04.34 | kirma | some ICSA profiles include pretty tough challenges for the vendors... |
| 15:05.18 | suihkulokki | trouble is managers |
| 15:05.23 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=user@83.149.10.38) |
| 15:05.36 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=Valerio@Maemo/community/council/VDVsx) |
| 15:05.59 | *** join/#maemo decasm (n=smithde@132-174-120-2.ip.oclc.org) |
| 15:06.01 | suihkulokki | trouble is managers want black box in their network that makes the net safe |
| 15:06.41 | kirma | any kind of security product can be configured or used incompetently nullifying its security incentive... |
| 15:07.04 | *** join/#maemo frade (n=ivan@esprx01x.nokia.com) |
| 15:07.09 | wazd | Re-reheya all |
| 15:07.19 | kirma | well, almost any kind of device. but the ones that can't be misconfigured are really not the stuff that's usually installed... |
| 15:07.35 | Stskeeps | passes wazd a cookie |
| 15:09.12 | wazd | Nom-nom-noms |
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| 15:11.24 | wazd | Any shocking news today?) |
| 15:11.39 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@80.220.238.64) |
| 15:12.03 | RST38h | wazd: 42.-11 firmware is officially out |
| 15:12.20 | RST38h | wazd: and there is a 45.xx screenshot showing portrait mode microb |
| 15:12.47 | Stskeeps | or someone who made a portrait browser |
| 15:12.53 | Khertan | :) |
| 15:12.57 | Khertan | not difficult :) |
| 15:13.09 | wazd | RST38h: photoshop rulles =) |
| 15:13.20 | Stskeeps | i mean, wazd could whip that up in photoshop in a matter of minutes.. |
| 15:13.38 | timeless_mbp | andre__: bug 3675 doesn't make sense |
| 15:13.39 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3675 backup will loop nearly infinitely for directories containing pairs of symlinks that do not point to descendants because backup is following them |
| 15:13.55 | *** join/#maemo bedboi (n=bedboi@c3lab.poliba.it) |
| 15:13.56 | kirma | heh |
| 15:14.02 | Stskeeps | wazd: next up: fart app from iphone running on n900 ;) |
| 15:14.11 | florian | hi bedboi |
| 15:14.24 | wazd | Stskeeps: meheheh) |
| 15:14.26 | *** join/#maemo penguinbait (n=mlewis@Maemo/community/council/penguinbait) |
| 15:14.27 | RST38h | wazd: Actually, I have seen it IRL, so it is not photoshop |
| 15:14.41 | andre__ | timeless_mbp, feel free to comment on that report |
| 15:14.56 | wazd | Stskeeps: who needs fart app when you have liqtorch! :D |
| 15:14.58 | *** join/#maemo alecrim (n=alecrim@189.2.128.130) |
| 15:15.06 | Stskeeps | torch the farts? |
| 15:15.12 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki_ (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 15:15.31 | wazd | Stskeeps: eeew) |
| 15:15.48 | RST38h | liqfart + liqtorch |
| 15:15.54 | RST38h | hides |
| 15:15.57 | wazd | RST38h: cool |
| 15:16.08 | qwerty12 | Fire farts! |
| 15:16.20 | Stskeeps | Farts-on-fire, not Frets-on-fire |
| 15:16.32 | kirma | application of the fruit kind? |
| 15:16.34 | RST38h | goes to bugs.maemo.org to whine |
| 15:16.40 | kirma | does it have stereo sound effects? |
| 15:17.15 | wazd | Fart over FM transmitor |
| 15:17.16 | *** join/#maemo choppa (n=choppa@mnch-4d0435bd.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 15:17.20 | kirma | lol |
| 15:17.29 | zash | 7.1! |
| 15:17.40 | kirma | with slightly higher transmission power... that would be amusingly useless app enough |
| 15:17.40 | Stskeeps | wazd: connect to insecure bluetooth headsets.. |
| 15:17.40 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 15:17.54 | qwerty12 | So, law-abiding citizens, who has used their N900 to prank people using the FM transmitter? |
| 15:18.55 | kirma | I suppose the fm transmitter effective transmission power (under regulations) is on scale of picowatts, which allows only couple meters of transmission |
| 15:19.27 | wazd | kirma: enough for a prank |
| 15:19.41 | kirma | sort of |
| 15:19.46 | RST38h | Aaaaaannnnd.... The new XTerm bug #6209 ! |
| 15:19.47 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6209 XTerm does not immediately take focus |
| 15:20.01 | kirma | one could take a web version of a radio and retransmit it "modified" |
| 15:20.16 | Stskeeps | RST38h: i really wish i could disable address book search |
| 15:20.24 | timeless_mbp | RST38h: surely that's a duplicate? |
| 15:21.38 | timeless_mbp | odd |
| 15:21.45 | timeless_mbp | there's no obvious bug for it |
| 15:22.31 | qwerty12 | Stskeeps: rm /usr/bin/osso-addressbook.launch |
| 15:22.43 | Stskeeps | qwerty12: nah, it is handy at times.. |
| 15:22.44 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 15:23.12 | qwerty12 | Hehe |
| 15:23.41 | RST38h | Sts: Addr Book is not to blame here |
| 15:23.54 | RST38h | Sts: XTerm should immediately take focus, it does not for some reason |
| 15:24.08 | RST38h | Annnd another one" bug #6210 |
| 15:24.09 | Stskeeps | RST38h: desktop issue |
| 15:24.09 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6210 GPRS connection not restored after being interrupted |
| 15:24.12 | Stskeeps | it happens in other apps too |
| 15:24.19 | RST38h | Sts: oh =( |
| 15:24.35 | Stskeeps | it's while an app is launching, something is odd |
| 15:24.54 | timeless_mbp | RST38h: the issue is that desktop is cheating |
| 15:25.01 | timeless_mbp | it shows a picture of the app |
| 15:25.03 | kirma | RST38h: is the GPRS part particularly different from other phones? |
| 15:25.04 | timeless_mbp | and then runs the app |
| 15:25.11 | Jaffa | Stskeeps is right. maemo-launcher doesn't capture keypresses. |
| 15:26.12 | kirma | obvious problem testing that in helsinki area is that there are really not so many places where one could lose the connectivity long enough... |
| 15:26.12 | Stskeeps | basically when launching an app, it shouldn't allow address book to pop up :P |
| 15:26.21 | Stskeeps | except maybe when typing 1 1 2 .. |
| 15:26.25 | kirma | metro tunnel isn't enough. |
| 15:26.27 | wazd | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:27.27 | lcuk | no Stskeeps you must wait for the console to popup, then type "phone type=emergency location=uk number=999" why on earth would you need to search when its such a simple command line op :p |
| 15:28.04 | *** part/#maemo danielwilms (n=dwilms@147.243.155.42) |
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| 15:32.30 | Jaffa | Extras-testing broken? |
| 15:32.52 | andre__ | Jaffa, Fremantle? Diablo? Means what? |
| 15:33.42 | timeless_mbp | andre__: you want an alias entry for each failed report? |
| 15:34.16 | Jaffa | andre__: There's only one extras-testing; and I'm not going to retype from HAM's error display if it's a known problem :-p |
| 15:34.29 | timeless_mbp | Jaffa: there's a log |
| 15:34.32 | timeless_mbp | you can saveas in the log view |
| 15:34.38 | andre__ | timeless_mbp, obviously not. |
| 15:34.47 | andre__ | but i don't want somebody mixing up my aliases. |
| 15:34.53 | Jaffa | timeless_mbp: Not sure it's showing the error |
| 15:34.55 | timeless_mbp | andre__: well clearly the first two are failures |
| 15:35.03 | timeless_mbp | Jaffa: if it isn't, please file a bug :) |
| 15:35.12 | andre__ | yes. but that's my business as long as it's punting. |
| 15:35.35 | timeless_mbp | andre__: alright, suit yourself |
| 15:35.41 | timeless_mbp | ponders |
| 15:35.43 | timeless_mbp | so um... |
| 15:35.59 | Jaffa | Seems to be better now |
| 15:36.02 | timeless_mbp | i have two directory trees which are nearly identical |
| 15:36.03 | timeless_mbp | but not really |
| 15:36.11 | timeless_mbp | s/real/entire/ |
| 15:37.15 | timeless_mbp | hrm |
| 15:37.18 | timeless_mbp | maybe i'll just cheat :) |
| 15:39.41 | *** join/#maemo gunni (n=quassel@81.173.251.229) |
| 15:39.45 | *** part/#maemo feri (n=feri@nemein.suvilahti.nemein.net) |
| 15:40.47 | timeless_mbp | right... so how do i cheat? :) |
| 15:40.50 | *** join/#maemo anselmolsm (n=anselmo@200.184.118.130) |
| 15:41.19 | ShadowJK | kirma, cover phone with hands, put hands+phone between thighs, squeeze for 5 minutes |
| 15:41.22 | ShadowJK | ;) |
| 15:41.40 | kirma | you can't force developers to do that :) |
| 15:41.43 | ShadowJK | fwiw, on S60 the same thing results in every open app using GPRS closing/crashing |
| 15:41.55 | tbf | jeremiah: any update on http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/Release ? thank you. |
| 15:42.28 | lbt | kirma: force? I thought they loved it that much... |
| 15:43.05 | *** join/#maemo setanta (n=setanta@200.184.118.130) |
| 15:43.10 | kirma | although it's probably not unfixable on linux side, I suspect considerable portion of the trouble extends to the radio firmware parts or even the network itself |
| 15:43.27 | ccooke | Hm. With the release firmware, my n900 seems to pick up greasy fingerprints more. I hope they fix that in the next release |
| 15:43.28 | kirma | especially if one expects the connections to recover with any sort of grace :) |
| 15:43.38 | ccooke | grins |
| 15:43.42 | tbf | Stskeeps: bugs.maemo.org already has a bug report about this instant contact search race condition |
| 15:43.44 | kirma | cooke :D |
| 15:43.55 | tbf | Stskeeps: go search for it and vote ;-) |
| 15:44.09 | kirma | does the device also feel heavier? |
| 15:44.09 | *** join/#maemo aakashd (n=aakashd@nat/mozilla/x-vxnwhwayaqqkdimw) |
| 15:44.30 | ccooke | kirma: no, it's a little lighter. I guess they spent some time working on that. |
| 15:44.57 | tbf | Stskeeps: hmm? that bug shall be fixed already? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5745 |
| 15:45.01 | povbot | Bug 5745: Typing in newly opened window brings up contact search |
| 15:45.07 | ShadowJK | kirma, well, even detecting that the connection is dead and dropping it and creating a new one would be nice |
| 15:45.38 | Stskeeps | andre__: re 5745 i think that code is in hildon-desktop |
| 15:45.42 | Stskeeps | and public |
| 15:46.05 | Stskeeps | (in gitorious) |
| 15:46.08 | Flandry | Here's a random, apples-to-oranges question: how does the OMAP chipset in the N900 compare with a PIII 900 in "umph"? |
| 15:46.21 | derf | Poorly. |
| 15:46.41 | Flandry | approximately clock-matched? |
| 15:46.45 | ccooke | Flandry: wouldn't it be better to compare to something with a similar clock speed? |
| 15:46.59 | andre__ | Stskeeps, oops, you are totally right |
| 15:47.06 | andre__ | Stskeeps, mind to comment and correct me? :) |
| 15:47.39 | Flandry | Ok, vs PIII 400 then |
| 15:47.39 | ccooke | Flandry: a pIII 900 runs at approximately 900Mhz. The n900's standard high mark is 600 |
| 15:47.44 | kirma | ShadowJK: yep... although more one thinks about the situation, less obvious it becomes how to do it. at least if there's no easy way to probe if the GPRS connection is alive, without causing data transmission... |
| 15:50.22 | *** join/#maemo Andy80 (n=andy80@84.123.86.203.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 15:50.43 | lbt | ccooke: specmarks though ... what can you do in a cycle on x86 vs arm |
| 15:50.48 | Andy80 | hi all |
| 15:51.21 | Andy80 | VDVsx: is it possible to see the list of people registered to the MaeBar event? |
| 15:51.31 | lbt | wondered about running a liblocation caching proxy on the device... |
| 15:51.47 | ccooke | lbt: I also wondered about that |
| 15:51.51 | Flandry | even a mips too mips would be useful |
| 15:51.52 | VDVsx | Andy80, atm no |
| 15:52.05 | Flandry | i guess i'll have to go look |
| 15:52.26 | *** join/#maemo kalikianatoli (n=kalikian@xfce/goodies-developer/kalikiana) |
| 15:52.35 | VDVsx | Andy80, need something or just curiosity ? |
| 15:52.48 | ccooke | lbt: integer rate for a lot of things is directly linked to clock rate. I think devices that are designed to run mostly at low clock rates are more clock-speed dependant than desktop devices |
| 15:52.53 | ccooke | not entirely, but a little |
| 15:53.31 | Andy80 | VDVsx: uhm... both :P just to check if two people I know have registered and curiosity to see how many people registered |
| 15:53.36 | ccooke | basically, if you're optimising for lowest instruction rate possible you'll often only be using one integer unit at a time, regardless of the number you have |
| 15:53.57 | ccooke | and at that point, the biggest effects are pipeline speed and Mhz. |
| 15:54.01 | ccooke | s/speed/depth/ |
| 15:54.04 | lbt | ccooke: mmm but pipelining and 'equivalent MHz' crap creeps in... |
| 15:54.28 | kirma | flandry: Cortex-A8 does roughly 2.1 Dhrystone "MIPS" per megahertz if I remember right |
| 15:54.28 | VDVsx | Andy80, I can check if you want, send me the names in pvt |
| 15:54.28 | kirma | which is integer performance |
| 15:54.28 | ccooke | lbt: yeah |
| 15:54.55 | lbt | ^^ kirma's benchmark is the kind of thing that makes sense :) |
| 15:55.36 | RST38h | ccooke: independently of all that, once you go into memory, you are screwed though |
| 15:55.37 | ccooke | lbt: comparing architecture to architecture is useless unless they're in basically the same device and running the same software. Anything else is a rough comparison only. As long as you know that, it all works out about right ;-) |
| 15:55.44 | ccooke | lbt:/kirma: yes, quite. |
| 15:55.52 | ccooke | RST38h: naturally |
| 15:56.02 | Flandry | yeah i know it would be rough |
| 15:56.04 | ccooke | RST38h: of course, where some CPUs have memory controllers built in... |
| 15:56.08 | Flandry | that's why i asked :D |
| 15:56.18 | kirma | it just gives some sort of idea of the scale... basically two integer-oriented pipes are issuing each one instruction per cycle, and the instructions can sometimes pack a bit more than one "dhrystone-sense operation" in one instruction |
| 15:56.27 | RST38h | ccooke: Does not matter, as long as you have got 166MHz top SDRAM clock |
| 15:56.54 | *** join/#maemo bllimey3k (i=4086f3a2@gateway/web/freenode/x-dwwfhgzlvjbcqklu) |
| 15:56.57 | tbf | Stskeeps: btw, thank you for complaining about 5745 |
| 15:57.01 | ccooke | RST38h: it matters... a bit :-) |
| 15:57.06 | ccooke | enough to give an advantage |
| 15:57.10 | RST38h | ccooke: of course, a lot of cache helps, but ARMs historically did not have that |
| 15:57.15 | tbf | Stskeeps: you helped us to identify the cause for some regression in the PR1.1 image :-D |
| 15:57.16 | kirma | I think the NEON vector engine has rate of one ALU op plus one assignment per clock cycle |
| 15:57.26 | kirma | but it doesn't support double floats |
| 15:57.32 | Flandry | "rom what i read TI is claiming 1200 dhrystone MIPS for 600mhz which would place it alongside the PIII at 600mhz" |
| 15:57.36 | kirma | but then again, it supports vector formats |
| 15:57.37 | RST38h | kirma: That is easy to check, there is a paper on all that stuff |
| 15:57.50 | Stskeeps | tbf: ah, cool - rst started :P |
| 15:58.20 | kirma | understanding how the fixed pipeline scheduling on Cortex-A8 took quite a while for me to understand |
| 15:58.43 | kirma | http://www.design-reuse.com/articles/11580/architecture-and-implementation-of-the-arm-cortex-a8-microprocessor.html |
| 15:59.33 | kirma | it's also described on some ARM document, although I really figured it all out from some of these core compact presentations |
| 15:59.45 | RST38h | kirma, lbt: www.arm.com/miscPDFs/24588.pdf |
| 15:59.49 | derf | Nobody who cares about performance uses doubles. |
| 16:00.36 | kirma | there are lots of devils on the details that affect real-world performance though |
| 16:01.03 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie_ (i=c336e713@gateway/web/freenode/x-cephlczcpyspjxst) |
| 16:01.17 | crashanddie_ | The battery on my N900 runs out after something like 6 hours |
| 16:01.33 | *** join/#maemo tkharju (n=tkharju@84-253-212-193.satp.customers.dnainternet.fi) |
| 16:01.39 | RST38h | http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2009/11/500x_f.jpg |
| 16:02.05 | lardman | crashanddie_: less porn |
| 16:02.07 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gateway.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 16:02.14 | *** join/#maemo wirelessdreamer (n=anderson@chrobd01.vailsys.com) |
| 16:02.26 | crashanddie_ | lardman: you mean nokia discriminates against master |
| 16:02.26 | Flandry | so it seems that at least in integer operations, PIII and OMAP are roughly equivalent |
| 16:02.27 | crashanddie_ | bators? |
| 16:02.52 | qwerty12 | crashanddie_: no, it's just you they hate |
| 16:02.55 | RST38h | Flandry: Not really |
| 16:02.58 | Flandry | that's not consistent with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_second though, which has P3 at about 35% more |
| 16:03.09 | RST38h | shudders every time somebody makes this kind of comparison |
| 16:03.29 | *** part/#maemo tkharju (n=tkharju@84-253-212-193.satp.customers.dnainternet.fi) |
| 16:03.31 | RST38h | ARM and x86 architectures are so different that you cannot directly compare |
| 16:03.34 | Flandry | oh come on you pedantic prudes |
| 16:03.46 | *** join/#maemo caotic (n=caotic@189.157.133.129) |
| 16:03.47 | lbt | Flandry: they are comparable rather than an order of magnitude apart |
| 16:03.58 | kirma | practically all non-Thumb ARM instructions can be conditional and ALU instructions can include complex barrel shifter features... which x86 does to some extent too |
| 16:04.27 | lbt | however, specifics of performance need to be based on a specific 'real world' benchmark |
| 16:04.29 | kirma | and of course the register pressure is smaller on ARM, but then again, modern x86s work around that a lot... |
| 16:04.29 | Jaffa | crashanddie_: Apparently the latest 42-11 image is "lots better"; but I'll remain to be convinced. |
| 16:05.01 | Flandry | i always liked ARM assembler better than x86 |
| 16:05.02 | kirma | cache and memory subsystem characteristics and even compiler can affect the performance quite a bit |
| 16:05.04 | lbt | chances are a PIII and an ARM will be similar (ie within a factor of ~2) |
| 16:05.21 | mgedmin | sighs, reflashing is painful, now I need to make backups |
| 16:05.44 | Flandry | but anyway i have intel benchmarks and want to make estimates for N900 perf, so that's close enough, thanks |
| 16:06.11 | lardman | Flandry: what are you comparing against? |
| 16:06.12 | lbt | Flandry: now, comparing a multi-cpu Quad-core Xeon with SSDs to an N900... you'd notice some lag on the N900 |
| 16:06.16 | lardman | A desktop CPU? |
| 16:06.16 | CShadowRun | Isn't the N900 supposed to be out today? |
| 16:06.34 | lbt | CShadowRun: mine's out on my desk |
| 16:06.37 | Flandry | looking at MAME bencmarks |
| 16:06.42 | CShadowRun | lbt in uk |
| 16:06.44 | lbt | Flandry: aha |
| 16:06.46 | CShadowRun | it still says preorder on the nokia site |
| 16:06.49 | lbt | is in Reading |
| 16:06.56 | CShadowRun | :o |
| 16:07.01 | CShadowRun | you have a prerelease model? |
| 16:07.06 | lbt | grins |
| 16:07.22 | CShadowRun | hehe |
| 16:07.24 | lbt | takes a photo of a kiwi |
| 16:07.26 | CShadowRun | stabs |
| 16:08.18 | aquatix | poor kiwi |
| 16:08.25 | kirma | it's reasonably easy to calculate maximum amount of operations something like Cortex-A8 could perform on optimal conditions, and it's also bearable to do that on any x86 microarchitecture... but most of the time, those numbers don't matter |
| 16:09.11 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (n=millenom@93-35-144-166.ip55.fastwebnet.it) |
| 16:09.44 | *** join/#maemo Flyser (n=flyser@unaffiliated/flyser) |
| 16:09.56 | lbt | http://www.flickr.com/photos/96141280@N00/4108907269/ |
| 16:10.10 | lbt | CShadowRun: ^^ |
| 16:10.19 | aquatix | lbt: it's... blurry |
| 16:10.28 | CShadowRun | That kiwi is evil. |
| 16:10.30 | aquatix | lbt: you sure it isn't a photoshop job? |
| 16:10.30 | Jaffa | crashanddie_: Happy to meet up ahead of tomorrow for a beer, cos I'll finish work at 6ish and apart from removal of shirt and addition of T-shirt, footloose and fancy free |
| 16:10.46 | lbt | it's furry, not blurry |
| 16:11.05 | aquatix | i say it's both, but fair enough |
| 16:11.12 | CShadowRun | I'm still pondering if i should get mine on contract or not xD |
| 16:11.13 | lardman | where are you beering Jaffa? |
| 16:11.25 | CShadowRun | I probably won't use that much internet or phone lol |
| 16:11.32 | lbt | is on Asda PAYG |
| 16:11.50 | CShadowRun | lbt what's the deal on that? |
| 16:11.53 | lbt | use wifi when possible and GPRS on the train |
| 16:11.58 | lbt | 20p/Mb |
| 16:12.01 | lbt | cheap calls |
| 16:12.03 | CShadowRun | yea, that's mad |
| 16:12.12 | CShadowRun | I really want something like 2GB a month |
| 16:12.18 | *** join/#maemo mikkov (n=user@xdsl-83-150-82-126.nebulazone.fi) |
| 16:12.26 | lbt | sure - if you can't get wifi then you need that |
| 16:12.28 | aquatix | is happy with his flat-fee mobile internet |
| 16:12.34 | aquatix | not sure what the max is on that though |
| 16:12.39 | CoreFusion- | as well |
| 16:12.46 | CShadowRun | yea, i will have wifi most of the time |
| 16:12.53 | CShadowRun | but when i don't have wifi it needs to be my "main" connection |
| 16:13.15 | lbt | there's a wiki page on the various tariffs |
| 16:13.26 | CoreFusion- | i have 384kbit/s at 9.8euros/month |
| 16:13.42 | aquatix | 768kbit/s for 7EUR/month |
| 16:13.50 | aquatix | happy camper |
| 16:14.04 | CoreFusion- | but currently my connection is working at 2mbit/s P |
| 16:14.06 | aquatix | generally only use gprs though |
| 16:14.09 | lbt | http://wiki.maemo.org/Data_plans |
| 16:14.14 | aquatix | CoreFusion-: you h4xx0r ;) |
| 16:14.34 | CoreFusion- | aquatix: hehe, i don't know why it is doing that, but i don't mind :D |
| 16:14.39 | CShadowRun | lbt yea, problem is they all do something lame |
| 16:14.52 | CShadowRun | filtering certain types of traffic, costing too much, or having ridiculously low limits |
| 16:14.53 | lbt | *nod* |
| 16:14.54 | Khertan | .fi ... of course |
| 16:14.57 | Khertan | :) |
| 16:14.58 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A1676E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:15.03 | mgedmin | got 512 Mbit/s for 6.5 EUR/month |
| 16:15.04 | lbt | I agree - hence not using any of them :) |
| 16:15.09 | mgedmin | s/M/K/ |
| 16:15.12 | CShadowRun | I wouldn't mind PAYG but not at 20p/mb |
| 16:15.19 | CShadowRun | That's like 20p for loading one webpae |
| 16:15.21 | CShadowRun | webpage* |
| 16:15.26 | aquatix | mgedmin: lol, i was baffled for a moment there :) |
| 16:15.36 | Khertan | got 20Ko/s for 26 Euros by month |
| 16:15.36 | lbt | it depends... |
| 16:15.43 | mgedmin | note to self: infobot can't handle actions |
| 16:15.44 | Ceron^ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl9u-h_btBo fuking heell! |
| 16:15.50 | lbt | I really don't use it in many places I can't get wifi |
| 16:16.18 | aquatix | Khertan: ? :/ |
| 16:16.29 | CShadowRun | £5/gb or something would be reasonable lol |
| 16:16.56 | mgedmin | also, s/6/8/ |
| 16:17.00 | CoreFusion- | lbt: about that list, i have the Saunalahti Mobiililaajakaista, but it says on wiki that all p2p traffic is forbidden, i haven't noticed anything like that :D |
| 16:17.00 | Khertan | aquatix: yep sfr ... (elle s est pas faire) |
| 16:17.10 | mgedmin | and s/.5/.7/ |
| 16:17.16 | aquatix | Khertan: sounds painful |
| 16:17.20 | Khertan | aquatix: yep |
| 16:17.39 | lbt | CoreFusion-: so did you update it? |
| 16:17.40 | *** join/#maemo ArSa_ (n=ArSa@nc-71-0-121-232.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 16:17.52 | Khertan | aquatix: sometime i got 2Mb/s ... but ... most of the time only 20ko/s |
| 16:18.04 | lbt | slaps CoreFusion- with a wiki-fish |
| 16:18.06 | CShadowRun | lbt i remember liking the sound of the t-mobile ones, they give you a small amount of bandwith and if you go over they throttle you right? |
| 16:18.14 | aquatix | actually gets the 768Kbit/s when he tries |
| 16:18.17 | CoreFusion- | lbt: no, jsut wondering that the source is? |
| 16:18.23 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp_ (n=timeless@a88-115-13-172.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:18.35 | aquatix | but reception at work is not ideal |
| 16:18.36 | lbt | CoreFusion-: helpful community member :) |
| 16:18.38 | CoreFusion- | that=what* |
| 16:18.44 | aquatix | however, i've internet there anyway ;) |
| 16:18.59 | lbt | CShadowRun: I think t-mobile coverage is an issue for me |
| 16:19.14 | AndrewFBlack | I noticed some people talking about a firmware update on n900 does it require you ot flash your phone or is it in app manager |
| 16:19.15 | CShadowRun | ah :( |
| 16:19.18 | lbt | no phone/3g at home :( |
| 16:19.56 | crashanddie_ | Jaffa: unless anyone can come up with something I could talk about, I have no clue what to say |
| 16:19.57 | aquatix | lbt: none at all? ick |
| 16:20.10 | CoreFusion- | what does FUP mean at the data limit section? |
| 16:20.20 | lbt | aquatix: too weak |
| 16:20.36 | aquatix | has his cellphone as primary phone |
| 16:20.45 | aquatix | it'd better work at home :) |
| 16:20.57 | CShadowRun | lbt t-mobile coverage looks pretty good in kent |
| 16:21.10 | CShadowRun | (which is really the only place i'm gonna be) |
| 16:21.41 | korius | AndrewFBlack: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware |
| 16:21.58 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 16:22.23 | mgedmin | except that SSU doesn't apply here: the devices we got in Amsterdam don't support SSU since "there are changes required at lower levels of the software stack" (paraphrasing) |
| 16:22.45 | CShadowRun | Very good 3g, excellent 2g in my street apparently |
| 16:23.16 | CoreFusion- | lbt: i found the reason for that p2p forbidden stuff in wiki... it actually says so in the operators website :D haha, but it's not blocked, just forbidden |
| 16:23.24 | AndrewFBlack | I didn't get mine from Amsterdam but i would assume mine is the same I'm not sure |
| 16:23.31 | aquatix | mgedmin: SSU? |
| 16:23.39 | mgedmin | seamless software update |
| 16:23.43 | aquatix | ah right |
| 16:23.56 | mgedmin | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#Seamless_Software_Update actually |
| 16:24.23 | aquatix | check |
| 16:27.29 | lbt | CoreFusion-: worth an update then ;) |
| 16:28.55 | CoreFusion- | lbt: maybe not... i just hope that they don't make me pay extra for this month as i dl 3gb yesterday alone... :/ |
| 16:30.48 | *** join/#maemo KaKaRoTo-KS (n=kakaroto@MTLXPQAK-1176055545.sdsl.bell.ca) |
| 16:30.50 | lbt | would cut you off if he ran a mobile data service provider ;) |
| 16:31.06 | CoreFusion- | :P |
| 16:31.19 | *** join/#maemo tbf_ (n=mathias@86.56.57.78) |
| 16:31.31 | Ceron^ | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3d/BarringtonJudge.jpg <- typical maemo user |
| 16:32.10 | CoreFusion- | i only dl'd the vmware workstation trial and the maemo sdk virtual image |
| 16:32.19 | CoreFusion- | and then the new top gear episode :P |
| 16:33.03 | Jaffa | watched that live after Doctor Who :) |
| 16:33.26 | *** join/#maemo baze (n=baze@f051232028.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:33.35 | Andy80 | anyone knows when the Maemo Summit videos will be available? |
| 16:34.21 | alterego | Heh |
| 16:34.34 | lardman | feels happy at removing 150 emails from his inbox |
| 16:35.23 | qwerty12 | curses lardman for adding one to his inbox |
| 16:37.09 | CoreFusion- | hmm.. anyone uses spotify? |
| 16:37.37 | aquatix | there's an app for that |
| 16:37.39 | aquatix | runs |
| 16:37.41 | Jaffa | CoreFusion-: Once a week or so |
| 16:37.54 | CoreFusion- | can you send me an invite? :D |
| 16:38.02 | Jaffa | I dunno, can I? |
| 16:38.32 | Jaffa | CoreFusion-: "I have 0 invitations" |
| 16:38.33 | CoreFusion- | I don't know :P |
| 16:38.37 | CoreFusion- | :/ |
| 16:38.38 | LoCusF | does anyone know if there is a video with the alarm clock on N900 :) ? |
| 16:39.05 | Andy80 | CoreFusion-: it's free... but depend where are you from... for example I can use here in Spain but cannot when I come back to Italy :) |
| 16:39.06 | Andy80 | :( |
| 16:40.07 | CoreFusion- | when i got to spotify.com it says that i have to pay or use an invite |
| 16:40.23 | CoreFusion- | Spotify Free |
| 16:40.25 | CoreFusion- | Requires an invite |
| 16:40.46 | Andy80 | CoreFusion-: where are you from? |
| 16:40.51 | CoreFusion- | finland |
| 16:40.53 | Andy80 | it depends where you connect from |
| 16:41.01 | Andy80 | ok... then it's not available in your country |
| 16:41.30 | mgedmin | does reflashing wipe /home? |
| 16:41.53 | mikhas | not here |
| 16:41.54 | mgedmin | I extracted the eMMC fiasco image and it seems it only has a single vfat image of the /home/MyDocs partition |
| 16:41.55 | qwerty12 | mgedmin: Only if you flash the eMMC |
| 16:41.59 | mgedmin | qwerty12, ^ |
| 16:42.06 | mgedmin | ah, okay, interesting |
| 16:42.09 | mikhas | but I wouldnt not rely on that =) |
| 16:42.11 | Andy80 | mgedmin: it contains only maps |
| 16:42.21 | mikhas | s/wouldnt/would |
| 16:43.17 | lbt | Andy80: no, I'm pretty disappointed about the summit videos... |
| 16:43.59 | lbt | someone volunteered to edit them but I'd rather see naff raw video than nothing |
| 16:44.33 | lbt | upload the things somewhere, put som instructions on the wiki and let the community edit them |
| 16:45.00 | mikhas | oh that could be fun |
| 16:45.05 | mikhas | "funniest edit wins" |
| 16:45.09 | lbt | sure the 'professional' guys screwed up - but come on... |
| 16:45.13 | lbt | heh |
| 16:45.17 | Andy80 | lbt: it's not so easy... it's Gb and Gb of files :P |
| 16:45.26 | lardman | last time I flashed the emmc it didn't wipe the card, all my mp3s, etc were left there |
| 16:45.29 | lbt | Andy80: p2p ? |
| 16:45.38 | lbt | has Tb and Tb |
| 16:46.04 | *** join/#maemo jayabharath (n=a0866114@nat/ti/x-lpozstthmiovcxes) |
| 16:46.08 | qwerty12 | maemo.org BitTorrent Tracker |
| 16:46.13 | lbt | yep - it is exactly what p2p is good at... |
| 16:46.32 | *** join/#maemo Tuco1 (n=Tuco1@unaffiliated/tuco) |
| 16:46.35 | lbt | and when we're done it'll be a few Mb |
| 16:46.37 | Andy80 | you have to upload them somewhere, to make them available via torrent... |
| 16:46.54 | lbt | no you don't |
| 16:47.31 | lbt | you have to seed them but that's all |
| 16:47.43 | lbt | sure it'd take a day or several.... |
| 16:48.00 | lbt | but we'll be having the next summit at this rate... |
| 16:48.17 | lbt | stops ranting now :D |
| 16:48.23 | Andy80 | lbt: please propose this solution to maemo |
| 16:48.29 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=user@83.149.9.3) |
| 16:48.30 | Andy80 | maemo-community mailing list |
| 16:48.35 | Andy80 | and let's see :) |
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| 17:03.03 | waz2 | oh, engadget has reviewed n900. Uber-bias included?) |
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| 17:27.13 | KMFDM | i would love to help try out apps in extra-testing. if the repo ever successfully loaded |
| 17:28.21 | andre__ | loaded where? |
| 17:28.39 | *** join/#maemo willer (n=willer@189.2.128.130) |
| 17:28.45 | CutMeOwnThroat | onto the truck |
| 17:28.52 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@a88-112-120-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:29.02 | andre__ | where do you want to bring it? |
| 17:29.13 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 17:31.09 | Jaffa | KMFDM: "Unable to load .../repository" error? It went away for me the next time I said "Refresh" |
| 17:31.35 | *** join/#maemo lardman (n=simon@78.150.68.23) |
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| 17:33.30 | *** join/#maemo yerga (n=yerga@Maemo/community/contributor/yerga) |
| 17:34.18 | KMFDM | Jaffa, i've had that for 2 weeks |
| 17:34.22 | KMFDM | i've refreshed about 16 times |
| 17:34.25 | KMFDM | in those 2 weeks |
| 17:34.38 | KMFDM | i'll be upgrading my firmware sometime this week. I'm hoping that will somehow fix it |
| 17:35.32 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar1 (n=thopieka@p57A147F6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:36.12 | Stskeeps | KMFDM: i have experienced that when my router was corrupting my DNS requests |
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| 17:54.44 | lardman | Khertan: ping |
| 17:55.03 | wazd | Engadget is so engadget |
| 17:56.36 | greenfly | wazd: review seemed pretty positive to me |
| 17:58.06 | *** join/#maemo waz1 (n=user@83.149.9.165) |
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| 18:02.01 | dmj726 | Engadget seemed pretty schizophrenic to me. |
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| 18:04.02 | RST38h | reMoo |
| 18:04.11 | RST38h | wazd: "such an..." =) |
| 18:04.51 | *** join/#maemo Thephilosopher (i=4618e3b7@gateway/web/freenode/x-enhzfqzsopidlagq) |
| 18:05.37 | *** join/#maemo waz2 (n=user@83.149.9.66) |
| 18:07.25 | waz2 | I bought HD2 hate me gagaga |
| 18:07.57 | RST38h | Show us the proofpic! =) |
| 18:08.03 | *** join/#maemo JPohlmann (n=jannis@xfce/core-developer/JPohlmann) |
| 18:08.44 | waz2 | RST38h: damn) |
| 18:08.53 | RST38h | hehe |
| 18:09.43 | waz2 | RST38h: but everything can happen :P |
| 18:10.07 | *** join/#maemo filip42 (n=filip@ankh-morpork.disque-monde.org) |
| 18:10.12 | RST38h | yea, although some things are just less probable than others |
| 18:10.46 | *** part/#maemo mikhas (n=mikhas@p4FC2196C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:11.18 | waz2 | RST38h: if hd2 will cost less than n900 - why not?) |
| 18:12.18 | *** part/#maemo xisdibik (n=Xisdibik@c-24-5-197-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 18:12.50 | *** join/#maemo Khertan_n900 (i=507db074@gateway/web/freenode/x-sjldqcdnoduylmzz) |
| 18:13.16 | *** join/#maemo waz3 (n=user@83.149.9.180) |
| 18:13.19 | Khertan_n900 | Hi ! again |
| 18:13.58 | RST38h | wazd: It will not afaik |
| 18:14.11 | Khertan_n900 | i ve a memory hole ... does there is a way to clone a gtk object in python ? |
| 18:15.41 | Khertan_n900 | ps : it s amazing to see how battery was improve with the last firmware |
| 18:17.13 | RST38h | Could somebody remind me where N900 IMEI is? |
| 18:17.18 | waz3 | RST38h: even if it will cost the same - I'll consider it) Back to |
| 18:17.31 | RST38h | It has got a bigger screen, indeed |
| 18:17.47 | RST38h | But WinMo is a complete disaster |
| 18:17.47 | waz3 | Back to consumer world :D |
| 18:18.00 | RST38h | Even in the consumer world, WinMo is horror |
| 18:18.01 | Khertan_n900 | rst38h : parameters -> product info |
| 18:18.09 | lardman | Khertan_n900: what's the difference between mtasks and mtodos? |
| 18:18.13 | waz3 | I think android will be available soon |
| 18:18.15 | RST38h | Khertan: thanks =) |
| 18:18.19 | RST38h | Obvious! |
| 18:18.20 | Khertan_n900 | lardman haha :) |
| 18:18.31 | waz3 | XDA power :) |
| 18:18.48 | Khertan_n900 | lardman : mtasks is a task manager based on priority |
| 18:18.52 | Khertan_n900 | of task |
| 18:19.06 | lardman | I'm just looking for some code to bastardise and make into a hierarchical system |
| 18:19.24 | Khertan_n900 | and mtodos on the due dates with an other organization with quick access |
| 18:19.36 | Khertan_n900 | of todo now and todo later |
| 18:19.47 | lardman | mtasks has dates too though it looks like? |
| 18:20.05 | Khertan_n900 | lardman : do not based your code on mtasks nor mtodos |
| 18:20.12 | lardman | lol |
| 18:20.13 | lardman | ok |
| 18:20.17 | Khertan_n900 | it use a specifics database to store info |
| 18:20.23 | *** join/#maemo wirelessdreamer (n=anderson@chrobd01.vailsys.com) |
| 18:20.26 | lardman | sqlite? |
| 18:20.29 | Khertan_n900 | it s really the wrong way to do it |
| 18:20.33 | Khertan_n900 | yep sqlite |
| 18:20.38 | lardman | oh, right, why is that? |
| 18:21.08 | *** join/#maemo chris231989atwor (i=42da7fd8@gateway/web/freenode/x-knfzuiimbnurqfek) |
| 18:21.08 | Khertan_n900 | i ve done a small framework to store taks,events and memo in a vcalendar db file |
| 18:21.10 | Khertan_n900 | it s better |
| 18:21.31 | Khertan_n900 | and i ll base next mtodo release on it |
| 18:21.44 | *** join/#maemo filip421 (n=filip@ankh-morpork.disque-monde.org) |
| 18:21.47 | *** join/#maemo trbs (n=trbs@82-169-23-132.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 18:21.53 | RST38h | Folks, should I download GLOBAL or USA? What is the difference? |
| 18:22.04 | lardman | Khertan: hmm ok, not sure how well my plan would fit in vCal, but who knows |
| 18:22.23 | lardman | Khertan: I guess custom fields are allowed |
| 18:22.54 | *** join/#maemo GiantTalkingCow (n=gianttal@adsl-75-62-236-17.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:22.55 | Khertan_n900 | yep |
| 18:23.01 | *** join/#maemo trofi (n=slyfox@86.57.233.35) |
| 18:23.10 | *** join/#maemo korius_ (n=quassel@dslb-188-098-202-146.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:23.11 | *** join/#maemo GiantTalkingCow (n=gianttal@adsl-75-62-236-17.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:23.15 | lardman | when do you plan to release? |
| 18:23.41 | Khertan_n900 | maybe for hierarchical tasks/todos it ll be not the best way to use vcal format |
| 18:23.49 | lardman | yeah |
| 18:23.49 | *** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=CBabbage@uhartford236105.hartford.edu) |
| 18:23.53 | Khertan_n900 | lardman don t know |
| 18:23.56 | Khertan_n900 | :) |
| 18:23.57 | lardman | np |
| 18:24.15 | Khertan_n900 | maybe i can give you the current code |
| 18:24.17 | lardman | I am wondering how to handle leaf nodes which are attached to more than one tree |
| 18:24.34 | RST38h | will got for the GLOBAL release, fuck it all... |
| 18:24.48 | lardman | considers using the tree part of GtkTreeView for this |
| 18:25.16 | lardman | RST38h: GLOBAL has the real Paris in it ;) |
| 18:27.09 | RST38h | lardman: But no Podunk, CT? |
| 18:27.22 | lardman | well that too I guess ;) |
| 18:27.41 | qwerty12 | RST38h: I'd say that's a feature, looking at the name... |
| 18:27.47 | lardman | guesses CT is Conneticutt (or however it's spelled) |
| 18:28.39 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=user@83.149.10.168) |
| 18:28.45 | lardman | right, bbl, supper and cooking and washing up and reboot beckons |
| 18:28.50 | lardman | :) |
| 18:28.52 | *** join/#maemo Khertan_n900_ (i=507db074@gateway/web/freenode/x-uhtzsyrvtpukgqrw) |
| 18:29.08 | Khertan_n900_ | sorry connection drops |
| 18:29.17 | RST38h | idly adding Cancel option to accelerometer calibrator |
| 18:30.08 | Khertan_n900_ | mine is block on left left left left |
| 18:30.14 | Khertan_n900_ | where is the acceleroeters calibrator ? |
| 18:30.14 | *** join/#maemo EspadaV8_L (n=espadav8@93-97-175-175.zone5.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:30.16 | Khertan_n900_ | and left |
| 18:30.29 | RST38h | Khertan: Download any of my stuff from -Devel |
| 18:30.32 | Khertan_n900_ | and sometime left |
| 18:30.41 | Khertan_n900_ | :) oki |
| 18:30.55 | Khertan_n900_ | thx |
| 18:31.08 | RST38h | Khertan: And, BTW, can I ask you to vote for MG in -Testing, if you have got an N900 to test it? =) |
| 18:31.11 | Khertan_n900_ | an rst38h package ? |
| 18:31.14 | RST38h | needs two more votes |
| 18:31.31 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gateway.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 18:31.47 | Khertan_n900_ | MG ? |
| 18:31.47 | RST38h | Khertan: In -devel, look for these: VGBA,VGB,iNES,MG,Speccy,fMSX,ColEm |
| 18:32.06 | Khertan_n900_ | ah ok |
| 18:32.27 | *** join/#maemo moo-_- (n=quassel@herd37.twinapex.fi) |
| 18:32.32 | RST38h | actually, you can test the -devel version and vote for -testing one, they are essentially the same :) |
| 18:33.49 | RST38h | In related news, "iPhone app debuts for plastic surgery enthusiasts" |
| 18:33.49 | Khertan_n900_ | what is exactly MG ? i didn t see it in testing |
| 18:34.00 | *** join/#maemo GiantTalkingCow (n=gianttal@adsl-75-62-236-17.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:34.03 | RST38h | Khertan: It is a SEGA GameGear/MasterSystem emulator |
| 18:34.12 | Khertan_n900_ | oki |
| 18:34.16 | RST38h | Khertan: I think you may know SMS as MegaDrive8 |
| 18:34.28 | RST38h | That was the European name, I guess |
| 18:35.02 | Khertan_n900_ | yep |
| 18:35.13 | *** join/#maemo igagis (n=igagis@ns2.vsev.lanck.net) |
| 18:35.23 | wazd | RST38h: megadrive= genesis |
| 18:35.39 | Khertan_n900_ | euh no in france it was master system for the 8bit |
| 18:35.43 | Khertan_n900_ | and megadrive for the 16 bits |
| 18:35.46 | RST38h | wazd: That is MegaDrive16. The only reason why "16" got lost is because it is so much more popular |
| 18:36.00 | wazd | RST38h: ah) |
| 18:36.05 | RST38h | SMS kinda flickered and was gone... |
| 18:36.13 | Khertan_n900_ | and MegaDriveCD for the upgrade |
| 18:36.33 | RST38h | Yeah, and there was a keyboard for the Genesis too ;) |
| 18:36.43 | Khertan_n900_ | hum i ll try it tommorow when i ll be able to got a rom |
| 18:36.53 | *** join/#maemo dirk2 (n=dirk@p5B040535.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:37.04 | RST38h | BTW, SMS had a keyboard and a BASIC too, MG will emulate those |
| 18:37.37 | Khertan_n900_ | anyway someone know to clone / duplicate / copy a gtk.TextBuffer i python |
| 18:37.50 | Khertan_n900_ | as using copy module do not do it |
| 18:37.56 | *** part/#maemo simula (n=mark@209.189.194.130) |
| 18:38.58 | *** join/#maemo bilboed (n=bilboed@89.129.143.15) |
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| 18:40.20 | Shapeshifter | Is there already scummvm for the n900? |
| 18:40.28 | *** join/#maemo CrashedMicrob (i=507db074@gateway/web/freenode/x-bmwqnspmrvulampj) |
| 18:40.28 | RST38h | yep |
| 18:40.37 | CrashedMicrob | re |
| 18:40.43 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N810 (n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12) |
| 18:40.47 | CrashedMicrob | sorry just got a crash of microb |
| 18:41.11 | Shapeshifter | cool. |
| 18:41.14 | Shapeshifter | very cool. |
| 18:41.26 | Shapeshifter | Looking forward to playing some day of the tentacle. |
| 18:41.30 | Khertan_n900 | so no answer while i was dropped ? |
| 18:42.07 | *** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
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| 18:44.49 | zaheerm | Jaffa, awesome your suggestion got python optified in -devel |
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| 18:57.01 | vanksi | are there any alternative email clients that support exchange than the nokia supplied mfe? |
| 18:57.36 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A147F6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:57.42 | vanksi | and is anyone porting vpnc to maeno 5? |
| 18:58.48 | *** join/#maemo BabelO (n=fcr@unaffiliated/babelo) |
| 19:02.20 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:03.22 | andre__ | vanksi, http://maemo.org/packages/view/vpnc/ |
| 19:04.02 | andre__ | note though that the package is in extras-devel. it can be highly unstable, kill your device, hence not recommended to end-users until it has reached the Extras repository |
| 19:05.19 | *** join/#maemo waz2 (n=user@83.149.9.208) |
| 19:09.25 | Shapeshifter | mhh, by the way: Is there a way to tell the n900 to connect to APs automatically if any are available when unlocking the device? |
| 19:09.51 | Shapeshifter | and does the "network manager" support execution of commands after or before connecting to the AP? |
| 19:10.06 | javispedro | it connects to APs automatically always. |
| 19:10.19 | Stskeeps | javispedro: were you the wpasupplicant icd guy? |
| 19:10.24 | Shapeshifter | similar to PRE_UP POST_UP PRE_DOWN POST_DOWN in netcfg from arch for those who know it. |
| 19:10.28 | javispedro | yeah, that one. |
| 19:10.32 | Shapeshifter | javispedro: always? can't I turn it off? |
| 19:10.42 | Stskeeps | javispedro: think it'd work on fremantle and how much configuration would it require? :P |
| 19:10.44 | _berto_ | when was Maemo-Display-Name first introduced in debian/control ?? |
| 19:10.59 | Shapeshifter | I mean, I probably don't need it to be connected to APs while it's in my pocket. |
| 19:11.18 | Shapeshifter | or doesn't it drain the battery really? |
| 19:11.33 | javispedro | Stskeeps: dunno. Hopefully recompile. I was cleaning some of the complexity that is now useless with n900's new wi-fi kmod. |
| 19:11.35 | *** join/#maemo lopz (i=gentoo@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 19:11.52 | Stskeeps | javispedro: just pondering cos it might be useful on zoom2 or beagleboard |
| 19:12.33 | javispedro | icd2 closed though.. |
| 19:12.43 | Stskeeps | yeah, not an issue with this particular port |
| 19:12.52 | Stskeeps | (icd2 is in nokia-binaries) |
| 19:13.16 | javispedro | Shapeshifter: when I got my N810 I was surprised it would spent all 24h online. Now (10 months after) I think that a gadget not doing that is useless. |
| 19:14.31 | *** join/#maemo korius (n=quassel@188.104.90.114) |
| 19:14.49 | Shapeshifter | javispedro: okay ^^ |
| 19:15.42 | *** join/#maemo kalikiana (n=kalikian@xdsl-84-44-178-58.netcologne.de) |
| 19:15.43 | Shapeshifter | javispedro: I was more thinking that for the regular automatic online-checking stuff that the phone does even in my pocket, 3g/edge would be enough |
| 19:15.53 | Shapeshifter | Specially when moving there's no point really from wlan. |
| 19:16.34 | javispedro | Stskeeps: well, current version has a dependency on modified wlancond that shouldn't be needed in n900. I can't promise when I'm going to work on it though (but probably soon after I get actual hardware and have to get the device to connect to my uni's network :P ) |
| 19:16.46 | javispedro | Shapeshifter: I'm pretty sure WLAN uses less battery. |
| 19:16.51 | lopz | hi ;) |
| 19:17.03 | Stskeeps | javispedro: k |
| 19:17.08 | Shapeshifter | mhh. I think it would be neat anyway if it was possible to turn off 3G depending on rules, for example when a specific AP is present. If that is not possible I'll probably work on it. |
| 19:17.33 | *** part/#maemo cehteh (n=nnnnnnnc@pipapo.org) |
| 19:17.36 | jeremiah_ | Looks like Diablo packages should be getting pushed into extras-devel finally. |
| 19:17.37 | Shapeshifter | because at my uni there's wlan everywhere and the ESSID is the same everywhere and it should connect automatically. Then it should turn off 3G |
| 19:17.41 | *** join/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host81-155-227-189.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:17.48 | jeremiah_ | Garage's diablo monitor most have fallen over. |
| 19:18.03 | Stskeeps | found the issue? |
| 19:18.10 | jeremiah_ | Stskeeps: Yeah, I think so. |
| 19:18.17 | Stskeeps | and it's not caused by a conspiracy from the communist cabal? :P |
| 19:18.28 | jeremiah_ | There was a file holding a pid - and the script checked if the file existed |
| 19:18.32 | jeremiah_ | But not if the pid existed! |
| 19:18.35 | Stskeeps | ah |
| 19:18.45 | jeremiah_ | So the pid was gone, but the script kept thinking it was running. |
| 19:18.54 | jeremiah_ | So it wouldn't start, blah blah blah |
| 19:19.04 | Stskeeps | probably why yeah |
| 19:19.14 | jeremiah_ | I think things should be working, but I would love someone to check quickly :) |
| 19:19.14 | *** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@stgt-5d84b0a9.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 19:19.20 | jeremiah_ | I would be much obliged. |
| 19:19.39 | Stskeeps | i'm sure the guys in the t.m.o threads will help |
| 19:19.40 | *** part/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host81-155-227-189.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:19.57 | jeremiah_ | Stskeeps: heh |
| 19:20.10 | Stskeeps | -s |
| 19:20.13 | jeremiah_ | They have been very helpful. |
| 19:20.18 | jeremiah_ | So considerate |
| 19:20.24 | jeremiah_ | and thoughtful |
| 19:20.52 | jeremiah_ | WHY IS MY PACKAGE GOING TO /dev/null!??!?!?ONE!111 |
| 19:20.53 | qwerty12_N810 | jeremiah_: That's only their way of saying "I love you" |
| 19:21.07 | jeremiah_ | qwerty12_N810: :) |
| 19:21.19 | javispedro | WHAT? MY PACKAGE WENT TO /dev/null???? |
| 19:21.35 | Jaffa | _berto_: *ages* ago |
| 19:21.37 | *** join/#maemo guerby (n=guerby@74.174.71-86.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 19:21.40 | jeremiah_ | Its a special place we keep for the naughty packages. |
| 19:22.11 | jeremiah_ | If garage is suddenly slow, er, slower, you'll know why. |
| 19:22.27 | Stskeeps | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:22.30 | jeremiah_ | heh |
| 19:22.36 | jeremiah_ | exactluy |
| 19:23.00 | Stskeeps | i have actually encountered that one |
| 19:23.05 | jeremiah_ | For real? |
| 19:23.07 | Stskeeps | deleted /dev/null by accident |
| 19:23.10 | jeremiah_ | oh |
| 19:23.11 | Stskeeps | then it keeps on filling up |
| 19:23.23 | javispedro | and they say maemo.org is more open than the iphone app store! as open as /dev/null ! ;) |
| 19:23.27 | jeremiah_ | because it was linked to a real space |
| 19:23.59 | RST38h | Oh the horror, the suffering: my N900 is too old for the normal update to 42.11 |
| 19:24.15 | javispedro | not released and too old already. |
| 19:24.15 | Jaffa | RST38h: On fremantle-stars? |
| 19:24.21 | qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: Daniel's e-mail or Navifirm... |
| 19:24.26 | *** join/#maemo pH5 (n=ph5@e178193179.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:24.26 | RST38h | javispedro: Your package went to /dev/random and the world entripy ate it! |
| 19:24.35 | RST38h | Jaffa,qwerty: yea, that is what I am doing :) |
| 19:24.44 | RST38h | BTW, is eMMC image worth updating? |
| 19:24.56 | Jaffa | RST38h: I've not seen anything massively different yet |
| 19:25.03 | qwerty12_N810 | didn't update his eMMC |
| 19:25.17 | Jaffa | wouldn't have bothered TBH |
| 19:25.19 | qwerty12_N810 | I have no need for the latest N900 demo video, or the latest User Guide |
| 19:25.28 | RST38h | true |
| 19:25.36 | RST38h | although partitioning may have changed |
| 19:25.52 | Jaffa | wonders what wazd means by "absolute disrespect and ignorance" - I only get the "replied to thread" email |
| 19:26.04 | Jaffa | RST38h: Let me SSH into my newly installed SSHable N900 and do a df -h for you |
| 19:26.32 | *** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:26.37 | jeremiah_ | I didn't update my eMMC either. |
| 19:26.54 | jeremiah_ | And though I flashed my device, it dropped into some crazy cyclical reboots |
| 19:26.58 | RST38h | don't you at least have to wipe /opt? |
| 19:27.04 | jeremiah_ | So I wonder if I really updated. |
| 19:27.14 | Jaffa | RST38h: Yeah, ideally you'd have to wipe /opt |
| 19:27.20 | Jaffa | Partitioning looks no different |
| 19:27.49 | Jaffa | wishes ssh-server kept its keys as part of the backup, so he didn't have to edit known_hosts on every box now the signature has changed. |
| 19:28.10 | *** join/#maemo edgar (n=christop@cm56-222-142.liwest.at) |
| 19:28.13 | Jaffa | Oh, and /home/user/.ssh |
| 19:28.39 | qwerty12_N810 | Jaffa: We hereby nominate you as our official eMMC flash image tester |
| 19:28.39 | *** join/#maemo luke-jr (n=luke-jr@2002:62b3:1d4c:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d) |
| 19:28.41 | *** join/#maemo iDialekt (n=idialekt@166.205.134.46) |
| 19:29.54 | aSIMULAter | :P |
| 19:30.33 | Jaffa | qwerty12_N810: What an honour |
| 19:31.20 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=user@83.149.9.187) |
| 19:31.46 | Jaffa | wazd: what's up? saw your "disrespect and ignorance" message (but not read the whole thread) |
| 19:32.14 | wazd | Jaffa: ah, never mind |
| 19:32.43 | wazd | Jaffa: absolute silence from ddp or quim |
| 19:32.44 | *** join/#maemo shuduo (n=shuduo@nat/intel/x-mgmjcivwevywthix) |
| 19:32.51 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp_ (n=timeless@192.100.124.156) |
| 19:32.55 | Shapeshifter | wazd: what happened |
| 19:32.59 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (n=JRocha@40.86.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 19:33.02 | timeless_mbp_ | looks for tim samoff |
| 19:34.15 | *** join/#maemo wirelessdreamer (n=anderson@chrobd01.vailsys.com) |
| 19:34.25 | dmj726 | hey zaheerm |
| 19:35.33 | *** join/#maemo Firebird (n=Firebird@pool-138-88-201-253.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 19:35.41 | *** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@54.200.49.122-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 19:35.53 | wazd | Jaffa: so I'd better quit expecting anything and keep doing things I do best - helping for fun |
| 19:37.38 | RST38h | ok, skipping emmc |
| 19:38.09 | RST38h | wazd: you may order to my US address if you wish |
| 19:38.13 | javispedro | wouldn't you believe i'm actually learning from the tmo god thread |
| 19:38.23 | RST38h | wazd: the closest delivery is going to be in January though |
| 19:38.35 | qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: You too? |
| 19:38.47 | Jaffa | Oh god, there's a tmo god thread. |
| 19:38.48 | wazd | RST38h: I can't order anything |
| 19:38.53 | Jaffa | Perhaps one not for the digest ;-) |
| 19:39.03 | javispedro | Jaffa: yes, it's growing as a community! |
| 19:39.04 | RST38h | wazd: I suspect that if you change address to US, it will work |
| 19:39.14 | RST38h | javispedro: learning what? |
| 19:39.42 | javispedro | RST38h: about the concept of a "masochistic and sadistic" god |
| 19:39.57 | RST38h | javispedro: that's not new |
| 19:40.16 | javispedro | hey, just one post read so far :) |
| 19:40.39 | wazd | RST38h: I'm sick of trying to get any info what to do, screw it |
| 19:40.43 | RST38h | javispedro: Arthur Schopenhauer |
| 19:40.52 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@a88-112-120-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:41.18 | RST38h | wazd: Well, just means somebody has to talk to them, somebody they listen to |
| 19:41.32 | RST38h | wazd: May I suggest talking to tekojo? |
| 19:42.24 | *** join/#maemo hassanakevazir (n=hassanak@CPE0021296837af-CM001ceacc8352.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 19:42.30 | RST38h | wazd: Just calmly describe the situation and say that you can supply DPP with a US based address if they do not like .RU address |
| 19:42.41 | Klowner | ooh, $50 rebate! |
| 19:43.20 | *** join/#maemo waz1 (n=user@83.149.9.223) |
| 19:43.44 | *** join/#maemo BabelO (n=fcr@lun34-2-82-238-28-28.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:43.57 | timeless_mbp | Jaffa: ping |
| 19:44.14 | timeless_mbp | Jaffa: did you know that you can hold the shift key on the keyboard while tapping an item in the web browser? |
| 19:44.34 | Jaffa | timeless_mbp: Oooh. What it does it do? |
| 19:44.49 | timeless_mbp | it sends a right-ish-click to the content area |
| 19:44.56 | timeless_mbp | if the content area doesn't trap it, it's a left click |
| 19:45.03 | Jaffa | Interesting. |
| 19:45.06 | Jaffa | Food time. |
| 19:45.12 | timeless_mbp | but in the main portion of google maps, it does something more useful :) |
| 19:45.13 | Shapeshifter | wooooo n900 price dropped once more here. I'm now at just 488 Euros for the phone including 1 year of subscription whith 1gb traffic. |
| 19:45.14 | Jaffa | found a weird keyboard input bug. |
| 19:45.16 | RST38h | still wants Ctrl+Shift+I as an about:config option |
| 19:45.21 | RST38h | Please please please |
| 19:45.37 | timeless_mbp | c-s-i is typically domI |
| 19:45.41 | RST38h | Shapeshifter: is VAT included? |
| 19:46.04 | Shapeshifter | RST38h: yeah. Well, no "VAT" here, but yes, that's the final subsides price + subscription costs for 12 months. |
| 19:46.14 | Shapeshifter | *subsidised |
| 19:46.23 | Jaffa | timeless_mbp: 1) http://www.renderengine.com/demos.php 2) Click "Try it out!" on "Asteroid Clone"; 3) Press Enter; 4) Cursor keys scroll page; (5: think how cool it'd be with portrait browsing) |
| 19:46.25 | timeless_mbp | Shapeshifter: is 488eur actually a good deal? |
| 19:46.28 | RST38h | It is comparable to the DPP subsudized price |
| 19:46.31 | Klowner | gingerly prints out $50 MIR |
| 19:46.37 | timeless_mbp | Jaffa: sp3000 has portrait browsing |
| 19:46.39 | Shapeshifter | timeless_mbp: very |
| 19:46.48 | timeless_mbp | had it on a device but the device was reflashed and is now on loan |
| 19:46.54 | RST38h | Jaffa: Portrait browsing has been already implemented at the time of the summit |
| 19:47.05 | Jaffa | timeless_mbp: Anyway, the browser traps the cursor keys and the JS never gets them :-( |
| 19:47.15 | RST38h | Jaffa: Just not enabled in firmwares |
| 19:47.20 | timeless_mbp | Jaffa: switch to interaction mode |
| 19:47.27 | Jaffa | RST38h: Yeah, I know. |
| 19:47.29 | *** join/#maemo tiflsc (n=tiflsc@2001:638:904:ffc2:21e:8cff:fe0d:452c) |
| 19:47.31 | timeless_mbp | that causes the web page to get first swing at keys |
| 19:47.36 | Jaffa | timeless_mbp: Ah, with the arrow cross thing? |
| 19:47.36 | timeless_mbp | e.g. for google reader |
| 19:47.39 | Jaffa | Cool |
| 19:47.48 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (n=magao@84.79.25.26) |
| 19:47.48 | Jaffa | RST38h: QA's a bitch, eh? |
| 19:47.55 | RST38h | Jaffa: UX, not QA |
| 19:48.02 | timeless_mbp | UX/mgmt |
| 19:48.09 | timeless_mbp | they wanted to make sure we removed enough dialogs |
| 19:48.17 | timeless_mbp | QA was relatively happy w/ it |
| 19:48.26 | timeless_mbp | mgmt pushed us to get it into Sales |
| 19:48.30 | timeless_mbp | but then backed off at the last minute |
| 19:49.01 | RST38h | does not quite understand Maemo UX obsession with removing features |
| 19:49.32 | qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: I know... Just look at Bugzilla |
| 19:49.33 | RST38h | If making things simpler is the goal, it can be done in a much more intelligent way, with "Advanced" settings |
| 19:49.49 | RST38h | qwerty: from xterm to filemanager, eh? |
| 19:49.55 | Stskeeps | waz1: prod |
| 19:50.12 | qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: Yep... |
| 19:50.18 | qwerty12_N810 | Stupid. |
| 19:50.20 | waz1 | Stskeeps: what?) |
| 19:50.37 | Stskeeps | waz1: status area on mer, how should it look? what should it contain? :) |
| 19:50.45 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: nothing! |
| 19:50.51 | timeless_mbp | but i want a decent screen saver clock |
| 19:50.54 | Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: that's what it currently does |
| 19:50.54 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 19:50.55 | timeless_mbp | one that doesn't use backlight |
| 19:51.06 | timeless_mbp | but has *BIG* letters so i can read it |
| 19:51.07 | qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: You're not one of them (UX guy)? |
| 19:51.19 | timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: i'm an engineer |
| 19:51.21 | Stskeeps | isn't actually sure what timeless_mbp exactly does |
| 19:51.27 | timeless_mbp | and i'm abused/ignored like any other consultant |
| 19:51.39 | RST38h | iPhone 'home' button earrings |
| 19:51.45 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: at this point i'm more of a communications guy :) |
| 19:51.45 | qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: Ah, your "nothing!" response had me worried there for a moment |
| 19:51.48 | RST38h | Mhhmmm |
| 19:51.52 | timeless_mbp | i'm proofing "web design guidelines" |
| 19:52.14 | timeless_mbp | and tomorrow i get to try to figure out how 3 other communication channels got garbled |
| 19:52.52 | waz1 | Stskeeps: well, depends on what goal we try to reach. If 100% fremantle copy then solution is obvious) |
| 19:53.14 | *** join/#maemo evo (n=evo@host51-93-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:53.15 | RST38h | waits for "/ 100% full" error |
| 19:53.36 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: you should support the same api maemo5 does |
| 19:53.42 | timeless_mbp | but actually let people hide things |
| 19:53.43 | Jaffa | is thinking of trying the optified Python, since it was his damned idea which has been implemented |
| 19:53.45 | timeless_mbp | like w7 and friends do |
| 19:53.45 | Jaffa | (thanks lizardo) |
| 19:53.55 | timeless_mbp | Jaffa: heh, good for you |
| 19:54.36 | Stskeeps | waz1: we can have our own personality though :P |
| 19:54.36 | waz1 | Stskeeps: hmm... |
| 19:54.38 | qwerty12_N810 | Jaffa: I, hating the space Python took, thank both you and lizardo |
| 19:54.42 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: out of the box, i'd say Clock, Alarms, Network, Battery, Bluetooth, GPS, and Presence |
| 19:54.49 | timeless_mbp | which is basically the same set that nokia has |
| 19:54.53 | timeless_mbp | the explanations: |
| 19:55.00 | timeless_mbp | wifi/gprs eat battery |
| 19:55.03 | timeless_mbp | gps eats batter |
| 19:55.07 | timeless_mbp | s/r/ry/ |
| 19:55.13 | timeless_mbp | presence eats battery |
| 19:55.21 | timeless_mbp | alarms can hurt your ears |
| 19:55.29 | waz1 | Stskeeps: maybe we can make whole taskbar thinner, while keeping hotspots the same |
| 19:55.35 | timeless_mbp | bluetooth eats battery and can surprise you |
| 19:55.38 | javispedro | RST38h: so, this removing features bad habit may come from gnome guys. |
| 19:55.46 | timeless_mbp | javispedro: it doesn't |
| 19:55.55 | timeless_mbp | the ui designers are finns from a local uni |
| 19:55.58 | timeless_mbp | they don't deal w/ gnomites |
| 19:55.59 | RST38h | javispedro: I would blame S60 |
| 19:56.13 | javispedro | heh |
| 19:56.14 | timeless_mbp | and for fremantle none of the (afaik) had anything to do w/ s60 |
| 19:56.23 | timeless_mbp | historically we had some ui/ux people from s90 |
| 19:56.27 | RST38h | the new UI surely looks like S60, and the APIs also look like Avkon |
| 19:56.29 | qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: 'cept the icons? =) |
| 19:56.36 | timeless_mbp | the artwork for maemo5 is indeed s60 |
| 19:56.37 | suihkulokki | timeless_mbp: bluetooth also impurifies and saps your bodily fluids? |
| 19:56.43 | timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: bah, give me some time to type won't ya? |
| 19:56.49 | qwerty12_N810 | :p |
| 19:57.22 | timeless_mbp | oh, and usb connected |
| 19:57.34 | timeless_mbp | basically, i don't think any of the default status components shouldn't be displayed if they're active |
| 19:57.38 | timeless_mbp | (by default) |
| 19:57.45 | timeless_mbp | but if a user wants to, let them hide them |
| 19:57.52 | timeless_mbp | the policy for portrait is stricter |
| 19:58.03 | timeless_mbp | and people should remember my pictures that explain why |
| 19:58.29 | timeless_mbp | (also syncing when active should appear, again because it can drain battery) |
| 19:58.41 | timeless_mbp | if anyone here hasn't heard the story of MfE draining battery... |
| 19:58.56 | waz1 | Stskeeps: I'll try to mock something up when I'll reach desktop pc |
| 19:58.58 | timeless_mbp | basically if you change your Exchange server password on another system |
| 19:59.01 | Stskeeps | waz1: sounds good |
| 19:59.14 | timeless_mbp | then mail sync would fail to get mail (duh) |
| 19:59.17 | timeless_mbp | when it fails, it tries again |
| 19:59.27 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (n=alehorst@189.58.22.172.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 19:59.27 | timeless_mbp | when it fails, it tries again (again, forever) |
| 19:59.39 | timeless_mbp | your device heats up and your battery drains really fast :) |
| 19:59.53 | timeless_mbp | so knowing that syncing is active is really important! :) |
| 20:00.05 | timeless_mbp | oh, obviously being in a 'silent' profile should be visible too... |
| 20:00.20 | timeless_mbp | since you want a visual reminder that you'll miss calls if you don't watch your phone |
| 20:00.26 | qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: That's just the secret feature designed for keeping people warm during Helsinki winters |
| 20:00.27 | timeless_mbp | has missed calls for days because of this |
| 20:00.34 | Shapeshifter | and an R for roaming. |
| 20:00.46 | timeless_mbp | Shapeshifter: not really actually |
| 20:00.47 | Stskeeps | r&d mode with serial enabled is excellent for keeping your hands warm |
| 20:00.57 | timeless_mbp | usually you know when you start roaming |
| 20:01.04 | timeless_mbp | and you don't usually transition between roaming and not roaming |
| 20:01.13 | timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: someone recently figured out the advantage of the n900 over other touch phones |
| 20:01.22 | timeless_mbp | ... it works in the winter in helsinki (or anywhere else in Finland) |
| 20:01.25 | timeless_mbp | ... with gloves on :) |
| 20:01.26 | Shapeshifter | timeless_mbp: depending on the phone and options it supports, people at borders of countries struggle with roaming |
| 20:01.34 | qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: *grin* |
| 20:01.40 | Shapeshifter | and receive bills in the hundrets because of it |
| 20:01.42 | lcuk | i thought that was well known reason for resistive? |
| 20:01.43 | timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: i've loved that feature for over a month :) |
| 20:02.02 | timeless_mbp | lcuk: someone mentioned reading in a forum recently where someone discovered this |
| 20:02.17 | lcuk | it will get rediscovered every year :) |
| 20:02.19 | timeless_mbp | Shapeshifter: the n900 lets you disable data roaming |
| 20:02.21 | Shapeshifter | happened here all the time. The provider I worked for now even disabled roaming by default because people living at the border would pick up a romaing signal instead of their own. |
| 20:02.36 | timeless_mbp | chuckles |
| 20:02.49 | timeless_mbp | there were some stories of people near cruise liners getting billed for super roaming |
| 20:02.53 | microlith | boggles at nokia |
| 20:02.58 | timeless_mbp | because the tower on the docked boat was capturing their signal |
| 20:03.03 | Shapeshifter | timeless_mbp: yeah but still, same for normal calls. I mean, I don't care, as I don't live at the border and don't do many calls anyway, but I find it a needed feature to see that roaming is enabled |
| 20:03.07 | microlith | so they were going to cancel my order, but failed at all to notify me of this fact |
| 20:03.17 | timeless_mbp | Shapeshifter: *shrug* |
| 20:03.23 | microlith | is nokia normally this sloppy with their orders? |
| 20:03.23 | timeless_mbp | that's the first thing i'd disable |
| 20:03.32 | timeless_mbp | microlith: sloppy? |
| 20:03.34 | timeless_mbp | nah |
| 20:03.37 | timeless_mbp | messy? absolutely |
| 20:04.09 | lcuk | curses https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/apt/+bug/354972 for some unknown reason |
| 20:05.07 | lcuk | 2 ways to solve it, dig in and muck with apt code, or buy faster broadband |
| 20:05.08 | *** join/#maemo GiantTalkingCow (n=gianttal@adsl-75-62-236-17.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:05.18 | CoreFusion- | finally got his second monitor to work |
| 20:05.48 | timeless_mbp | lcuk: there's a patch |
| 20:06.10 | timeless_mbp | CoreFusion-: on your n900? |
| 20:06.11 | qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: 3) Stop downloading porn at the same time |
| 20:06.18 | lcuk | nods @ timeless |
| 20:06.37 | lcuk | qwerty12_N810, ummm errr yeahhh well dont leave your server running in the daytime for me to get ti |
| 20:06.43 | CoreFusion- | timeless_mbp: no :P, on my desktop, still havent got my n900 |
| 20:06.46 | *** join/#maemo jkridner|work (n=a0321898@nat/ti/x-hafjxgbpdecitrgj) |
| 20:06.50 | javispedro | has neither n900 nor 3d drivers and will be angry. |
| 20:06.56 | javispedro | fortunately, being busy mitigates it. |
| 20:09.07 | javispedro | ponders learning iphone development... |
| 20:09.15 | CoreFusion- | why? |
| 20:09.39 | RST38h | 3d? |
| 20:09.42 | javispedro | I need some OpenGL ES hw to do some schoolshow |
| 20:09.57 | javispedro | and I could easily "loan" one of those eljobso phones... |
| 20:10.43 | dmj726 | why itoy development? Why not n900? |
| 20:10.59 | timeless_mbp | javispedro: are you practicing Fingrish? |
| 20:11.07 | timeless_mbp | because you want "borrow" |
| 20:11.39 | *** join/#maemo cleary (n=quassel@ppp121-44-56-35.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) |
| 20:11.49 | javispedro | was that the most worrisome grammar error I've made in the latest hours? :) That would mean I'm improving! |
| 20:12.19 | CoreFusion- | did you guys read about the google spdy-protocol? |
| 20:12.49 | timeless_mbp | i heard about it |
| 20:12.49 | CoreFusion- | to replace http |
| 20:12.59 | CoreFusion- | interesting stuff |
| 20:13.27 | timeless_mbp | javispedro: i've only been around for 45mins |
| 20:13.34 | timeless_mbp | CoreFusion-: iirc it isn't a replacement |
| 20:13.36 | greenfly | yeah, reminds me of other companies with significant market shares that have wanted to replace standard protocols with an in-house one |
| 20:13.40 | timeless_mbp | it's an accelerator for caching |
| 20:13.51 | timeless_mbp | greenfly: this isn't quite an in house protocol |
| 20:13.58 | timeless_mbp | it's a derivative of someone else's proposal |
| 20:14.06 | timeless_mbp | and google has almost enough market share to try |
| 20:14.23 | timeless_mbp | note that Real made rtsp which kinda worked |
| 20:14.35 | timeless_mbp | apple pushed things like Bonjour |
| 20:15.07 | greenfly | oh I have no doubt if anyone can 'encourage' all existing browsers and web servers to adopt a new protocol it will be google |
| 20:15.22 | timeless_mbp | actually... |
| 20:15.24 | greenfly | of course we know that MS won't do it, so then we'll have some nice fragmentation |
| 20:15.35 | timeless_mbp | it's sufficient for google to get browser vendors to implement it |
| 20:15.41 | timeless_mbp | since that can save google bandwidth |
| 20:15.55 | timeless_mbp | anytime google saves bandwidth, they save money |
| 20:16.04 | greenfly | sufficient for them |
| 20:16.16 | timeless_mbp | well... if you're a company |
| 20:16.23 | timeless_mbp | and you spend 5 man years on a project |
| 20:16.29 | timeless_mbp | or 20% of 5 man years on a project |
| 20:16.31 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=user@83.149.10.111) |
| 20:16.31 | *** join/#maemo cleary (n=quassel@ppp121-44-56-35.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) |
| 20:16.32 | timeless_mbp | so 1 man year |
| 20:16.40 | timeless_mbp | and you save millions of dollars |
| 20:16.45 | timeless_mbp | how does that equation sound to you? |
| 20:16.57 | timeless_mbp | afaiu, most google projects start as teams of 5 or fewer |
| 20:17.00 | timeless_mbp | and typically in 20% time |
| 20:17.18 | lcuk | they get over the hump of most projects |
| 20:17.28 | javispedro | that you only need 1 person to break HTTP, and 20 years to fix it. |
| 20:17.31 | lcuk | if its gonna fail and not be worthwhile it will be at that stage usually |
| 20:17.33 | greenfly | I guess I just haven't gathered enough info on it, such as, who controls the protocol code base? |
| 20:17.44 | timeless_mbp | iirc it's open on google code |
| 20:17.45 | greenfly | who decides what updates make it in, etc. |
| 20:18.03 | timeless_mbp | so far i haven't heard of problems w/ their accept system |
| 20:18.10 | timeless_mbp | mozilla shares breakpad with them |
| 20:18.18 | greenfly | well mozilla has a vested interest |
| 20:18.25 | greenfly | their foundation is heavily funded by google |
| 20:18.25 | timeless_mbp | in breakpad? |
| 20:18.29 | timeless_mbp | you mean getting crash reports? |
| 20:18.37 | timeless_mbp | um |
| 20:18.38 | greenfly | in return for the default search engine rights |
| 20:18.44 | greenfly | etc |
| 20:18.49 | timeless_mbp | that has absolutely nothing to do with our use of breakpad |
| 20:18.54 | timeless_mbp | google doesn't care one way or the other |
| 20:19.11 | *** join/#maemo v2px_ (n=v2px@BAJ165a.baj.pppool.de) |
| 20:19.18 | timeless_mbp | and some people presumably have contributed changes to android |
| 20:19.22 | greenfly | I'm saying that pointing to mozilla as someone who hasn't had issues cooperating with Google may not be the best example |
| 20:19.23 | timeless_mbp | (as a Nokian, I can only presume) |
| 20:19.25 | CoreFusion- | O.o someone using IPv6 already? |
| 20:19.45 | greenfly | since the two organizations already cooperate on many levels |
| 20:19.51 | timeless_mbp | greenfly: ok, so if nokia manages to cooperate w/ google somewhere, that'd be more impressive? |
| 20:20.30 | greenfly | yeah, it would be a better example than Mozilla, as Nokia (at least AFAIK) isn't getting major funding from Google |
| 20:20.45 | timeless_mbp | we get money for default search in the n900 :) |
| 20:20.47 | greenfly | what would be more impressive to me is how they would treat competitors |
| 20:20.55 | timeless_mbp | um |
| 20:21.03 | timeless_mbp | google has reached out to microsoft and yahoo at times |
| 20:21.12 | timeless_mbp | although to yahoo it was more to prop them up to avoid ms buying them :) |
| 20:21.21 | greenfly | everyone reaches out to everyone to adopt standards they have come up with :) |
| 20:21.25 | timeless_mbp | (didn't work, but hey) |
| 20:22.00 | *** join/#maemo luke-jr (n=luke-jr@2002:62b3:1d4c:0:20e:a6ff:fec4:4e5d) |
| 20:22.29 | timeless_mbp | well... the n800/n810/n900 have google talk (including the branded logo) |
| 20:22.35 | timeless_mbp | so we had to have some agreement :) |
| 20:22.44 | timeless_mbp | http://betalabs.nokia.com/blog/2009/09/10/nokia-messaging-im-beta-updated-google-talk-e71-e63 |
| 20:23.17 | timeless_mbp | http://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressrelease?newsid=1190585 |
| 20:23.29 | timeless_mbp | > Nokia and Google to 0ffer [sic] Google Search to Nokia customers worldwide |
| 20:23.29 | timeless_mbp | > February 12, 2008 |
| 20:23.44 | timeless_mbp | wonders if Nokia used OCR to write that press release |
| 20:23.48 | timeless_mbp | it's the ****n title! |
| 20:23.56 | greenfly | heh |
| 20:24.08 | CoreFusion- | http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/11/16/1631232/Mark-Cubans-Plan-To-Kill-Google |
| 20:24.21 | greenfly | in any case I'm not saying that Google won't partner with companies and work with them well |
| 20:24.32 | greenfly | I'm just wondering how they will cooperate with patches from competitors |
| 20:24.34 | RST38h | Let him |
| 20:27.03 | *** join/#maemo zigo_ (n=zigo@116.225.202.161) |
| 20:27.45 | timeless_mbp | http://www.google.com/intl/en/press/pressrel/20080212_mobile_nokia.html |
| 20:27.49 | timeless_mbp | > Nokia and Google to Offer Google Search to Nokia Customers Worldwide |
| 20:27.56 | timeless_mbp | the google press center doesn't use a Zero |
| 20:28.01 | timeless_mbp | i'm so disappointed in them |
| 20:28.14 | timeless_mbp | how dare they show us up by not including a typo in their headline! |
| 20:28.56 | *** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@a91-153-253-251.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:29.05 | timeless_mbp | avs: ping |
| 20:29.09 | qwerty12_N810 | ...and the wars start |
| 20:30.16 | avs | timeless_mbp, pong |
| 20:30.28 | *** join/#maemo zs (n=zs@188-220-50-10.zone11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:31.05 | *** join/#maemo caotic (n=caotic@189.157.133.129) |
| 20:32.07 | *** join/#maemo gnuton (n=Tonio@cs181173103.pp.htv.fi) |
| 20:33.21 | Jaffa | was particularly boggled by the "Google" widget included in the sales release. It seems to have a slightly rotating 'g' and basically be a bookmark. |
| 20:33.24 | Jaffa | Ooooh. |
| 20:34.29 | CoreFusion- | is justing surfing around and learned that the speed of sound in titanium is over 4 kilometers per second |
| 20:34.47 | kalikiana | lol |
| 20:35.08 | kalikiana | did the image come with a few hallucinogenes? :) |
| 20:35.34 | timeless_mbp | Jaffa: yeah, that was odd |
| 20:36.15 | qwerty12_N810 | It's Nokia's awesome replacement for the Search widget in Maemo 4 |
| 20:38.12 | CoreFusion- | so if we would build a ring around earths equator made of titanium then it would take 161.3 minutes for a sound go around the earth in that ring |
| 20:38.59 | wazd | CoreFusion-: breathe, dude! |
| 20:39.16 | RST38h | breathe it out quick |
| 20:39.16 | SpeedEvil | Graphite fibre would be even faster |
| 20:39.21 | CoreFusion- | is taking a breath |
| 20:39.27 | SpeedEvil | (along the fibre axes. |
| 20:39.39 | CoreFusion- | do the same for mars and it would tkae 85,9 minutes |
| 20:39.41 | RST38h | don't take a breath of whatever you are smoking, you have had enough |
| 20:39.44 | CoreFusion- | take* |
| 20:40.24 | CoreFusion- | whoa.. or a whopping 1808 minutes for jupiter O.o |
| 20:40.41 | CoreFusion- | (30.14 hours) |
| 20:40.49 | RST38h | At which depth? |
| 20:40.56 | wazd | Mars is smaller than the Earth?) |
| 20:41.01 | aep | so where is the shell? is that some sort of hidden entry? |
| 20:41.09 | CoreFusion- | wazd: yes.. didn't you know that? |
| 20:41.31 | CoreFusion- | :P |
| 20:41.36 | wazd | CoreFusion-: never been there :D |
| 20:42.12 | ShadowJK | How far to jupiter at lightspeed anyway |
| 20:42.19 | qwerty12_N810 | wazd: Dude, you don't know what you're missing out on |
| 20:42.34 | wazd | Damn, that's fail... I really thhought that mars is slightly bigger |
| 20:42.49 | *** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@86.56.57.78) |
| 20:42.50 | wazd | Damn... |
| 20:42.55 | RST38h | heh |
| 20:43.01 | CoreFusion- | ShadowJK: 50.45 minutes |
| 20:43.52 | *** join/#maemo wirelessdreamer (n=anderson@chrobd01.vailsys.com) |
| 20:44.46 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@a109-50-50-4.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 20:45.19 | wazd | Seriously, oh my... Never thought I can fail in this :D |
| 20:46.08 | CoreFusion- | ShadowJK: soryr my mistake, between earth and jupiter, 41.69 minutes |
| 20:46.09 | RST38h | wazd: BTW http://www.mentallandscape.com/V_Venus.htm |
| 20:46.35 | CoreFusion- | 50.45 is between mars and jupiter |
| 20:47.19 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@162.84-49-132.nextgentel.com) |
| 20:47.19 | Shapeshifter | I think there's better use for titanium |
| 20:47.29 | CoreFusion- | could be :P |
| 20:47.32 | Shapeshifter | Like, making sporks |
| 20:47.33 | RST38h | wazd: With raw telemetry data included ;) |
| 20:47.56 | CoreFusion- | indeed, what are they usually made of ? |
| 20:47.59 | CoreFusion- | aluminium? |
| 20:48.15 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf_ (n=hellwolf@a109-50-50-4.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 20:48.18 | wazd | RST38h: I have to sell my kidney to view it thru EDGE :D |
| 20:48.30 | *** join/#maemo penguinbait (n=mlewis@c-98-209-247-133.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 20:49.28 | CoreFusion- | cos titanium is 1.7 times as dense as aluminium |
| 20:50.48 | CoreFusion- | why didn't they make the casing for n900 out of titanium? :D that would have been so cool :P |
| 20:51.09 | lbt | actually it would have been warmer |
| 20:51.45 | CoreFusion- | true |
| 20:51.47 | CoreFusion- | a lot |
| 20:52.12 | jaska | Pu-238, itd work as a handwarmer in cold winters and as a power source |
| 20:53.04 | Shapeshifter | and as a source for cancer |
| 20:53.06 | CoreFusion- | thermal conductivity of titanium is less than one tenth of aluminium |
| 20:53.08 | Shapeshifter | how practical |
| 20:54.22 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 20:54.33 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N810 (n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12) |
| 20:54.40 | *** join/#maemo krisp0001_ (n=kris@d5153D23F.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:54.46 | Shapeshifter | It's soo cool that voyager 1 has power for at least until 2025 |
| 20:55.19 | CoreFusion- | isn't it powerder by some kind of nuclear battery? do i remember correctly? |
| 20:55.30 | CoreFusion- | powered* |
| 20:55.35 | Shapeshifter | yeah |
| 20:55.36 | jaska | solar wont work that far away :) |
| 20:55.47 | Shapeshifter | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator one of these |
| 20:56.24 | CoreFusion- | Hah, i'm gonna call nokia and say "I'd like two Radioisotope thermoelectric generator with my N900 please" |
| 20:56.33 | *** join/#maemo gnuton_ (n=gnuton@cs181173103.pp.htv.fi) |
| 20:57.42 | Shapeshifter | yeah, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RTG_radiation_measurement.jpg with some improvement, that will fit in a backback |
| 20:57.58 | Shapeshifter | the generator, not the woman. |
| 20:58.02 | Shapeshifter | xD |
| 20:58.14 | aep | umm how do you press enter in the emulator? |
| 20:58.33 | aep | my actual physical enter key doesnt work at least |
| 20:58.50 | Stskeeps | ctrl-m |
| 20:58.50 | Stskeeps | ? |
| 20:59.02 | javispedro | .. |
| 20:59.04 | javispedro | "emulator" |
| 20:59.06 | aep | yeah. |
| 20:59.10 | aep | thanks |
| 20:59.19 | javispedro | or the Keypad intro. |
| 20:59.24 | javispedro | s/intro/enter |
| 20:59.29 | *** join/#maemo Tester (n=tester@gentoo/developer/tester) |
| 20:59.36 | aep | i dont have that one |
| 20:59.48 | Tester | has anyone gotten adblock plus to work correctly ? |
| 21:00.07 | javispedro | aep: you don't have http://www.crestock.com/images/560000-569999/565814-xs.jpg ? |
| 21:00.37 | GeneralAntilles | Ah, geneven. |
| 21:00.45 | GeneralAntilles | Can't even keep from sniping, can you? |
| 21:00.56 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (n=david@c-24-7-146-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:00.56 | *** join/#maemo dneary (n=dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary) |
| 21:01.11 | GeneralAntilles | s/even/ever/ |
| 21:01.30 | aep | javispedro: nope |
| 21:01.48 | *** join/#maemo mandara (n=milos@92.36.132.171) |
| 21:03.03 | aep | hm, apt doesnt work at all inside the sdk, does it? |
| 21:03.13 | aep | is it usuable on the final device? |
| 21:03.30 | Stskeeps | remember 'fakeroot'? :P |
| 21:04.07 | *** join/#maemo digitalstimulus_ (n=digitals@cpe-071-077-144-145.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 21:04.16 | qwerty12_N810 | Ha, Reggie brought the smackdown to that religious thread |
| 21:04.37 | aep | Stskeeps: hm yes. but that doesnt do any difference anyway |
| 21:05.00 | aep | if fakeroot is what i think it is, then it lacks half the nessesary utils to run package scripts |
| 21:05.36 | RST38h | wazd: ouch. |
| 21:05.48 | RST38h | wazd: Actually, should be ok over edge, just slow like hell |
| 21:06.09 | RST38h | qwerty: So soon? |
| 21:07.01 | RST38h | qwerty: I have just asked if there is any evidence of plants performing religious rites for the human gods and whether plants practice smoking marijuana to get into the higher consciousness state |
| 21:07.07 | CoreFusion- | woah, big news - http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1562246/first-programmable-quantum-revealed |
| 21:07.34 | aep | btw, is it possible to run without hildon-desktop? i fear the 100% cpu usage might drain the battery rather quick |
| 21:07.36 | javispedro | oh, new sdk |
| 21:08.18 | javispedro | aep: are you trying to extract any kind of conclusion about the device from looking at the SDK? |
| 21:08.24 | aep | yup |
| 21:09.52 | aep | are you saying i shouldnt? :D |
| 21:10.11 | javispedro | yes. |
| 21:10.19 | javispedro | on your own, though. |
| 21:10.33 | *** join/#maemo gnuton__ (n=Tonio@cs181173103.pp.htv.fi) |
| 21:10.41 | aep | well i'm trying to find out how hackable it is |
| 21:11.17 | *** join/#maemo jayabharath1 (n=a0866114@nat/ti/x-duggtzejsuaggytn) |
| 21:11.30 | aep | i'm not testing how good it is as a consumer device. i dont care anyway |
| 21:12.00 | *** join/#maemo choppa (n=choppa@mnch-4d0435bd.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 21:12.21 | Shapeshifter | aep: well, for _you_ it has Qt. |
| 21:12.28 | aep | yey |
| 21:12.40 | GeneralAntilles | head -> desk. |
| 21:12.54 | GeneralAntilles | Hey, ho, we've got this new firmware for you! |
| 21:13.02 | GeneralAntilles | HA! It doesn't work on your device! SUCKER! |
| 21:13.12 | aep | huh |
| 21:14.35 | GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N810! |
| 21:14.42 | jani | aep: define hackable? |
| 21:14.52 | javispedro | notes the clutter color swap bug hasn't been fixed in sdk yet |
| 21:14.59 | qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles! |
| 21:15.07 | javispedro | It's a trap! |
| 21:15.15 | Corsac | it doesn't work on mine either! though maybe it wasn't intented for a sony ericsson? |
| 21:15.15 | aep | jani: run it with my favorite non debian distro without gui |
| 21:15.18 | Corsac | :> |
| 21:15.26 | *** join/#maemo Milhouse (n=irc_milh@dsl-217-155-26-150.zen.co.uk) |
| 21:16.15 | qwerty12_N810 | Corsac: Just destroy the GDFS, it'll work then... |
| 21:16.39 | Milhouse | Anyone know why bugs are rarely if ever accepted/assigned in maemo bugzilla? eg. bug 6191 |
| 21:16.40 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6191 Wrong character shown for umlaut in media file description |
| 21:17.05 | Milhouse | ta povbot |
| 21:17.47 | Corsac | qwerty12_N810: what's the gfds? :) |
| 21:17.58 | Milhouse | Seems an unusual way to administer bugzilla. |
| 21:18.00 | javispedro | watches an entry in the clutter changelog that may be related to anidel's rotation issue |
| 21:18.05 | jani | aep: with proper kernel i'd bet it would run pretty much anything if "anything" has arm port.. |
| 21:18.36 | *** join/#maemo GiantTalkingCow (n=gianttal@adsl-75-62-236-17.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:18.42 | qwerty12_N810 | Corsac: Area where theme settings and the like are stored. Been a while since I've messed on my Sony Ericsson, however... |
| 21:18.49 | *** join/#maemo thomastp (n=thomas@7.Red-83-45-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 21:18.54 | aep | it does- but i'm worried about where the drivers are. especcialy if i may be forced to run hal |
| 21:19.13 | GeneralAntilles | Milhouse, because Nokia still sucks. |
| 21:19.41 | thomastp | anyone here ordered an n900 online and already received it ? trying to figure out if it has actually shipped yet |
| 21:19.56 | Milhouse | GA: Yeah, that's what I guessed... not sure if it's raising as an issue as a new bug or even in 630, is Mr Klapper about tonight? :) |
| 21:20.00 | GeneralAntilles | Milhouse, basically our only way in and out of the internal bug tracker is through Andre. |
| 21:20.12 | GeneralAntilles | So it's resulted in decreased internal participation in some areas. |
| 21:20.31 | GeneralAntilles | finds this part of the bugmaster role a poor bandaid. |
| 21:20.43 | Milhouse | GA: Bug 630 is as relevant today as it was when I raised it :( |
| 21:20.44 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=630 Increased Bugzilla transparency - get the developers involved! |
| 21:20.51 | GeneralAntilles | Damnit, why does Daniel hate me. :( |
| 21:20.56 | GeneralAntilles | Milhouse, sadly. |
| 21:21.05 | Milhouse | GA: Andre does a great job but is let down by his colleagues |
| 21:21.12 | GeneralAntilles | Milhouse, I want to put together a Bugzilla Reportcard still. |
| 21:21.35 | GeneralAntilles | To use to bash Nokians in the face. |
| 21:21.56 | GeneralAntilles | sighs. |
| 21:22.07 | Milhouse | Is one necessary? It should be pretty obvious to everyone that it's a developer free zone. |
| 21:22.07 | GeneralAntilles | The whole situation is really terrible. |
| 21:22.16 | GeneralAntilles | The internal processes aren't compatible with the external ones |
| 21:22.39 | GeneralAntilles | so not only do you rarely get answers, but when you do, half the time those answers are dismissive and insulting. |
| 21:22.52 | GeneralAntilles | Milhouse, probably. |
| 21:22.52 | Milhouse | I just chuckled at the last comment in bug 6088 - as if we'd have a freaking clue what int-145074 is about. |
| 21:22.53 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6088 Very low touchscreen sensivitivity in the area near the left edge of the screen |
| 21:23.12 | GeneralAntilles | Milhouse, it's easier to complain when you can say "Hey, look, this team is kicking your asses at not sucking." |
| 21:23.14 | *** join/#maemo igagis_ (n=igagis@ns2.vsev.lanck.net) |
| 21:23.56 | Milhouse | Nokia just don't get it, and I suspect they never will. |
| 21:24.02 | GeneralAntilles | Those "It's to spec, screw off" responses are the worst. |
| 21:24.09 | Milhouse | Tell me about it. :( |
| 21:24.21 | GeneralAntilles | Two big problems |
| 21:24.25 | GeneralAntilles | Big ships turn slowly |
| 21:24.28 | GeneralAntilles | and S60 people |
| 21:24.29 | Milhouse | Trouble is, I just don't see it changing. |
| 21:24.59 | Milhouse | It's been 3+ years of "open development" and the bugzilla is still a black hole. |
| 21:25.00 | GeneralAntilles | There's not really a viable safe transitional period with the bugzilla stuff. |
| 21:25.16 | GeneralAntilles | When you have two trackers there's no way one of them isn't going to get neglected. |
| 21:25.31 | Milhouse | So kill one of them |
| 21:25.45 | Milhouse | There, problem solved. |
| 21:25.46 | GeneralAntilles | Easier said than done |
| 21:25.54 | microlith | huh, that bit about NokiaUSA cancelling preorders for phone + headset was true |
| 21:26.17 | GeneralAntilles | Nokia is, of course, inclined to kill the public one |
| 21:26.21 | GeneralAntilles | which we definitely don't want. |
| 21:26.21 | *** join/#maemo kynky (n=robert@kynky.net) |
| 21:26.22 | Milhouse | GA: Yeah, so nothing gets done. |
| 21:26.45 | GeneralAntilles | is needs to shower and will be back in a bit. |
| 21:26.47 | Milhouse | GA: If they do that, I think they will have lost the plot completely |
| 21:26.50 | *** join/#maemo Flyser_ (n=flyser@unaffiliated/flyser) |
| 21:27.54 | *** join/#maemo panaggio (n=panaggio@200-158-190-234.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 21:30.16 | aep | i think the big boys at nokia are well aware that the foss community is their only chance to survive. i wouldnt worry too much and just continue to poke people around |
| 21:30.59 | aep | its just the way "community" works for them apparantly.. |
| 21:31.11 | Milhouse | that's what is so frustrating about the current "broken" process |
| 21:31.30 | Stskeeps | votes bugtracker for all publically developed stuff gets moved to b.m.o |
| 21:31.45 | javispedro | wasn't that the plan? |
| 21:32.03 | *** join/#maemo ljp (n=quagmire@218.185.108.156) |
| 21:32.06 | *** join/#maemo CutMeOwnThroat (n=k@unaffiliated/iridos) |
| 21:32.25 | Milhouse | not sure - too much discussion, too little action. |
| 21:33.27 | suihkulokki | too many people wanting ponies in bugzilla so the relevant bugs slip under |
| 21:33.30 | Milhouse | apart from one or two brave Nokia developers there's hardly any "presence" in b.m.o from anyone official (apart from Andre) |
| 21:34.30 | Milhouse | nobody seems to take responsibility for bugs - if you're lucky they might get fixed in some future release, not that you'll ever know beforehand |
| 21:35.17 | Milhouse | "Is this now fixed in release x.yyy.zzzz?" is a comment entry in b.m.o - it's ridiculous, doesn't anyone know for sure????? |
| 21:35.30 | Milhouse | s/common/comment/ |
| 21:35.44 | javispedro | yeah. |
| 21:35.54 | jeremiah_ | That is part of the problem with a public / private code base |
| 21:36.39 | Milhouse | the tracking of defects is haphazzard - a changelog has been promised for years. |
| 21:37.09 | Robot101 | there is a very strict tracking of defects and requirements with releases, and integration phases, etc |
| 21:37.15 | Robot101 | its just... not with those defects :( |
| 21:37.57 | Milhouse | Robot: Right, which gives the community the impression they're not really of any interest. So why bother in the long term? |
| 21:38.17 | Milhouse | Are we just an annoyance? Sometimes I get that impression |
| 21:38.30 | Milhouse | A necessary evil, perhaps. |
| 21:39.17 | GeneralAntilles | The whole thing is pretty infuriating |
| 21:39.28 | GeneralAntilles | and the worst part is people running out of steam and dropping off. |
| 21:39.58 | *** part/#maemo mezcalero (n=mezcaler@85.214.72.216) |
| 21:40.24 | GeneralAntilles | still doesn't have a freaking FIASCO image. |
| 21:40.58 | Stskeeps | it's almost midnight in finland.. |
| 21:40.59 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 21:41.06 | *** join/#maemo DantonicN800 (n=user@c-24-7-146-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:41.14 | Milhouse | Do Nokia really want our involvement in detecting, submitting and tracking bugs? I think they should be honest, and if they do they should commit to improving the process as per bug 630 (for starters). If not, just close down b.m.o and be done with it, stop the pretence. |
| 21:41.15 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=630 Increased Bugzilla transparency - get the developers involved! |
| 21:42.02 | Milhouse | Hmm... maybe this should go on brainstorm - that would be a laugh. :) |
| 21:42.10 | Tester | Milhouse: some developers do reply |
| 21:42.25 | Milhouse | Yes, you can probably count them on the fingers of one hand though |
| 21:42.46 | Milhouse | And some of them have been public since the early days (particularly Eero) |
| 21:44.39 | Tester | the problem is more like that there are a bunch of things that you dont want to say in public |
| 21:44.41 | Tester | (or can't) |
| 21:45.02 | Milhouse | b.m.o could handle that if it was configured correctly. |
| 21:45.25 | Tester | like having hidden bugs ? |
| 21:45.32 | Tester | didnt Ari said he wanted a single bug tracker ? |
| 21:45.41 | Milhouse | security related bugs, or bugs relating to new products - yes |
| 21:46.17 | Tester | and well, public bugs are only useful for public releases.. |
| 21:46.21 | aep | i sort of trust nokia to get this fixed the next years. after all they bought trolltech to learn from them how to do open source... |
| 21:46.47 | *** join/#maemo PhonoE71 (n=Phonophi@m1c0e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 21:46.47 | Tester | its more like the trolls learning from nokia |
| 21:46.54 | Tester | I meant, they didnt even have a public source repo before |
| 21:47.12 | aep | yeah |
| 21:47.17 | Milhouse | If Mozilla can operate in public while keeping security related bugs hidden (until they are fixed) then I see little reason why Nokia can't do the same - the functionality is already there in b.m.o it just needs to be utilised. |
| 21:47.23 | *** join/#maemo LinuxCode (n=LinuxCod@fedora/LinuxCode) |
| 21:47.25 | Tester | Milhouse: mozilla is a non-profit |
| 21:47.27 | aep | and now they hang out on irc and have a public tracker. lots of good things happened :) |
| 21:47.30 | Tester | they dont do anything in secret |
| 21:47.42 | Milhouse | Tester: Yes but responsible for 30 million+ installs |
| 21:47.55 | Milhouse | What has profit/non-profit got to do with it? |
| 21:48.07 | aep | that the point is non technical |
| 21:48.17 | Tester | well, mozilla does everything in the open... nok can't do that |
| 21:48.50 | Milhouse | Tester: Security related bugs are not discussed publicly in the Mozilla defect tracker - they're hidden and only available to authorised developers. |
| 21:48.51 | aep | they could |
| 21:49.02 | Tester | security is just one thing |
| 21:49.03 | aep | i don't think they want to. thats a huge step |
| 21:49.33 | Tester | I think some of them would love it.. and many other nokians thing its jsut a pipe dream |
| 21:49.39 | Milhouse | Tester: Yes, but the point I'm making is that the functionality is present within the Bugzilla defect tracking system to keep bugs private or public, so one defect tracker could be used |
| 21:49.41 | aep | especcialy they don't want to discuss new devices in public :D |
| 21:49.57 | Milhouse | aep: spot on, which is why this pretence should be addressed once and for all. |
| 21:50.19 | Milhouse | aep: "spot on" in that they don't want to - not that they can't |
| 21:50.38 | aep | i think i missused the word "they" |
| 21:50.42 | jani | aep: i think huge step takes many small steps to cover the whole length |
| 21:51.06 | aep | "they" implies everyone inside nokia thinks alike, which isnt true |
| 21:51.31 | ljp | we are borg |
| 21:51.39 | aep | there you are :D |
| 21:51.40 | *** join/#maemo aakashd (n=aakashd@nat/mozilla/x-vgbgtaynzwiyzeyt) |
| 21:51.56 | lbt | if I do a backup and then flash, is the backup wiped off the device? |
| 21:52.00 | *** join/#maemo netvandal (n=michele@host-84-223-94-83.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 21:52.00 | Milhouse | Well, as somsone said or aluded to earlier - they need foss more than foss needs Nokia. |
| 21:52.12 | lbt | or does the flash not touch the MyDocs area? |
| 21:52.24 | Milhouse | lbt: if the backup is stored on the internal storage, yes. |
| 21:52.33 | aep | they know that. i think the prolem is that they still have to learn HOW to do community, not IF |
| 21:52.34 | qwerty12_N810 | lbt: MyDocs only gets touched if you flash the eMMC |
| 21:52.39 | Milhouse | lbt: it will replace the MyDocs area |
| 21:52.50 | qwerty12_N810 | lbt: I did not flash the eMMC, so my backup is still there |
| 21:52.56 | qwerty12_N810 | (after flashing) |
| 21:52.56 | lbt | feels this may be worth noting in the Wiki |
| 21:53.00 | aep | some devs have been part of foss for ages, some didnt even know it exists |
| 21:53.11 | lbt | ie do a backup *and copy it off the device* |
| 21:53.11 | GeneralAntilles | Management really needs to change |
| 21:53.20 | aep | Milhouse: time will fix this i think, just don't give up :) |
| 21:53.25 | Milhouse | aep: 4 years and counting.... slow learners I guess! Not sure they have long left, to be honest - they need to get it right sooner than later. |
| 21:53.26 | *** join/#maemo gnuton (n=Tonio@cs181173103.pp.htv.fi) |
| 21:53.33 | GeneralAntilles | I'd be happy with having product owners who put 30 minutes a week into b.m.o |
| 21:53.44 | aep | Milhouse: yeah or the other side of fixed takes effect |
| 21:53.52 | Tester | GeneralAntilles: management of nok is many order of magnitudes more clueful to foss than at any other mobile company |
| 21:53.58 | GeneralAntilles | lbt, eMMC flash is not for production devices. |
| 21:54.06 | GeneralAntilles | Tester, sadly that's still not good enough. |
| 21:54.14 | Milhouse | +1 |
| 21:54.15 | lbt | GeneralAntilles: OK |
| 21:54.16 | GeneralAntilles | Tester, and that's my trademark argument. :P |
| 21:55.01 | Milhouse | It's all very nice knowing that they know what it's all about, the problem is it's not translating into action at the coalface. |
| 21:55.03 | GeneralAntilles | wonders where he put his key. |
| 21:55.11 | aep | and Tester had a good point. compare it to other mobile phone vendors. |
| 21:55.45 | Milhouse | You mean those who are signing up to Android and producing very nice devices without the aggravation of people like us? |
| 21:56.09 | aep | yup. prefer that? |
| 21:56.12 | SpeedEvil | Openmoko has interesting parallels. Open in some ways, closed in others. |
| 21:56.37 | suihkulokki | Milhouse: where do you report bugs agains motorola droid or htc hero? |
| 21:56.49 | Milhouse | No of course not, but they don't make any pretence to involve us in the development process. Nokia has done, and has failed. How long can it continue without our involvement? Does it need us? |
| 21:57.09 | aep | suihkulokki: customer support of course! friendly offshore workers with no clue whatsoever |
| 21:57.17 | *** join/#maemo ArSa (n=ArSa@nc-71-0-121-232.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 21:57.19 | GeneralAntilles | Milhouse, pfft. |
| 21:57.36 | jani | milhouse: failed how ? to not fix every bug reported on the bmo ? |
| 21:57.42 | GeneralAntilles | Milhouse, Android is a joke as far as openness goes. |
| 21:57.42 | Milhouse | Oh sure, not suggesting it wasn't |
| 21:57.56 | GeneralAntilles | Milhouse, I'd rather have my foot in the door and have a chance of getting it more open than no chance at all. |
| 21:58.10 | Stskeeps | open source discussion in the morning, bugtracker discussion in the evening.. |
| 21:58.22 | GeneralAntilles | Although the response rate on b.m.o is poor, at least you can file bugs and at least you do get responses sometimes. |
| 21:58.25 | Stskeeps | i love this community. |
| 21:58.32 | Milhouse | jani: not every bug, but opening up the development process to involve the community more in the bug resolution process. It's a black hole, and despite many promises that hasn't changed in 2 years. |
| 21:58.55 | GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, I went to Sam's and got 200lbs of troll food for $15.99. |
| 21:59.02 | aep | Milhouse: well i agree on the promises beeing slightly inapropriate |
| 21:59.21 | aep | Milhouse: those are suggestions from individuals which have never been on any agenda i guess |
| 21:59.33 | jani | milhouse: granted. |
| 21:59.37 | aep | or the agenda says "take care of the comunity... someone" |
| 21:59.55 | Milhouse | GA: You must have the patience of a saint :) |
| 22:00.10 | GeneralAntilles | Milhouse, I have a lot more to go around now that I'm not reading Talk. |
| 22:00.16 | SpeedEvil | The fundamental issue is the descision makers are entirely disconnected from the community. The descisionmaker says 'There shall be lots of blue!' - the coders implement this - the community has no input. |
| 22:00.19 | GeneralAntilles | geneven drove me back out this morning. |
| 22:00.23 | javispedro | Stskeeps: and discussion about God in TMO! |
| 22:00.25 | Milhouse | GA: And the only responses seem to be "WONT FIX" (sorry, too easy!) :) |
| 22:00.39 | Stskeeps | who the heck put Power search where 'new posts' used to be |
| 22:00.42 | GeneralAntilles | Milhouse, I've run those numbers before. |
| 22:00.45 | lcuk | Stskeeps, its always good to find the chan completely different hour by hour |
| 22:00.48 | *** join/#maemo TomaszD_N900 (n=Tomasz@314-m.sm-rozstaje.pl) |
| 22:00.52 | GeneralAntilles | Milhouse, INVALID and WONTFIX is actually an extreme minority. |
| 22:01.33 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 22:01.38 | GeneralAntilles | OK, 910 WONTFIX/INVALID bugs in Applications and Platform. |
| 22:02.03 | GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?classification=Maemo+Official+Applications&classification=Maemo+Official+Platform&resolution=INVALID&resolution=WONTFIX |
| 22:02.10 | BBNS | =] did anyone figure out the vibrator API on N900 yet? |
| 22:02.23 | Milhouse | GA: I gave up bothering about any Diablo bugs |
| 22:02.30 | GeneralAntilles | 399 of which are INVALID (which, arguably, we can toss out since most of those bugs are useless). |
| 22:02.46 | Milhouse | GA: At some point the N900/Fremantle bugs will go the same way |
| 22:03.02 | GeneralAntilles | 1556 bugs FIXED |
| 22:03.09 | javispedro | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1028 |
| 22:03.10 | povbot | Bug 1028: Power VR mbx support |
| 22:03.19 | javispedro | ponders reopening it... |
| 22:03.21 | Milhouse | "FIXED" or "FIXED?" ;) |
| 22:03.27 | *** join/#maemo JoakimCarli (n=eeeeh@c83-252-242-250.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 22:03.42 | GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?classification=Maemo+Official+Applications&classification=Maemo+Official+Platform&resolution=FIXED |
| 22:03.49 | GeneralAntilles | Milhouse, that's a discussion I'm not willing to rehash. :) |
| 22:04.14 | GeneralAntilles | Out of 3962 total bugs |
| 22:04.42 | *** join/#maemo albanc (n=alban@pasanda.collabora.co.uk) |
| 22:05.06 | GeneralAntilles | That's a 12% WONTFIX rate of total |
| 22:05.30 | GeneralAntilles | and 16% of all resolved bugs. |
| 22:05.45 | Milhouse | How many Diablo bugs went to WONTFIX, what was the percentage? |
| 22:06.04 | Milhouse | Then again, perhaps Diablo was a one-off |
| 22:06.11 | javispedro | I think you're confusing WONTFIX with Fixed in Fremantle.. |
| 22:06.38 | Flandry | how does anybody get things done on maemo.org? Is there some secret to getting pages to load? |
| 22:06.49 | Milhouse | It's slow as buggery |
| 22:06.59 | Milhouse | https is even worse. |
| 22:07.11 | javispedro | you pray to the gods and sacrifice virgins |
| 22:07.13 | qwerty12_N810 | Flandry: It involves sacrificing a goat |
| 22:07.21 | GeneralAntilles | 236 WONTFIXED bugs with version set to a Diablo string out of 1228 total. |
| 22:07.21 | javispedro | see? |
| 22:07.26 | Milhouse | Good grief I was having such a good day today as well! ;-) |
| 22:07.33 | Flandry | i've tried repeatedly to load the page for my app package in extras-devel so i can promote it, and it always fails with PHP error |
| 22:07.41 | GeneralAntilles | Flandry, wait for the server upgrades. |
| 22:07.42 | Flandry | a goat, eh |
| 22:07.47 | Milhouse | GA: Hmmm better than I was expected... and how many actually FIXED? |
| 22:07.49 | javispedro | well, clearly, the 770 is in a bad mood |
| 22:08.07 | GeneralAntilles | 454 |
| 22:08.31 | Flandry | when is the server upgrade? Are they going to use two 770s, or skip straight to 810s? |
| 22:08.31 | GeneralAntilles | Milhouse, anyway, I've run these numbers several times in the past. They're not great, but they're not terrible. |
| 22:08.44 | GeneralAntilles | Flandry, should be end of this month or next. |
| 22:08.50 | Milhouse | A beowulf cluster of N810s was pretty awesome |
| 22:08.52 | Milhouse | :) |
| 22:08.59 | Milhouse | s/was/would be/ |
| 22:09.00 | Flandry | after release oO |
| 22:09.07 | qwerty12_N810 | Flandry: They're big spenders: One N800 will be added |
| 22:09.38 | javispedro | and the 770 donated. |
| 22:09.44 | Milhouse | GA: Fair point on the WONTFIX in that case. Ultimately though, the process can be improved that is without a doubt. |
| 22:09.53 | Flandry | ok i'll just nip off to android app market for two weeks then, shall i :P |
| 22:10.25 | *** join/#maemo korius (n=quassel@188.104.90.114) |
| 22:10.34 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 22:10.48 | GeneralAntilles | Milhouse, well, the process can ALWAYS be improved. |
| 22:11.19 | *** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@cs181192153.pp.htv.fi) |
| 22:11.58 | eean | isn't the almost TI just blantant piracy? what is it doing on maemo.org :D |
| 22:12.50 | Milhouse | link? |
| 22:13.09 | Tester | eean: isnt immitation the sincerest form of flattery ? ;) |
| 22:13.10 | Milhouse | is this one of those calculator emulator thingies? |
| 22:13.11 | javispedro | no, it is not. |
| 22:13.49 | eean | its not immitation though |
| 22:13.58 | eean | it has the real ROMs doesn't it? |
| 22:14.03 | javispedro | no. |
| 22:14.08 | eean | whoa really? |
| 22:14.19 | lcuk | almost ti should have a proper deal with Ti themselves, its running on a ti chip afterall. make it really ti |
| 22:14.23 | eean | so its emulating z80 just to allow you to run z80 binaries |
| 22:14.25 | javispedro | note that TI is distributing some of them. |
| 22:15.42 | eean | that guy did a lot of work if its really not using the original roms :) |
| 22:16.01 | javispedro | it requires them. |
| 22:16.14 | Milhouse | Does anyone do an "Almost Casio"? I used to have an FX-7000G when I were at skool |
| 22:16.22 | eean | so it does use the original rom |
| 22:16.27 | eean | javispedro: why did you say no then? ... |
| 22:16.40 | javispedro | it is not distributing them. |
| 22:16.44 | javispedro | at least, not in the .deb package |
| 22:16.53 | eean | well I didn't install anything |
| 22:17.05 | eean | I just selected the app from maemo apps |
| 22:17.14 | Milhouse | Oh look, TI Calcultor ROMs for download: http://www.ticalc.org/programming/emulators/romdump.html |
| 22:17.30 | eean | well I guess thats the case then, ti doesn't care |
| 22:17.50 | SpeedEvil | http://www.4004.com/ |
| 22:18.27 | Milhouse | Actually the above link is NOT for downloading ROMs, it just explains how to do it from a real calculator. Distributing TI Calculator ROMs is apparently illegal. |
| 22:19.04 | eean | oh ok that makes more sense |
| 22:19.10 | GeneralAntilles | is inclined to trust RST38h. |
| 22:19.55 | javispedro | oh no, you pinged him! now he will come and take revenge on those poor mortals |
| 22:20.19 | Milhouse | TPB is your friend it would seem for TI ROMs |
| 22:20.38 | lcuk | ticalc people are in sweden and disclaim all knowledge of dodgy stuff on their site |
| 22:20.48 | Milhouse | 32.9MB zip containing most ROMS on The Pirate Bay |
| 22:20.51 | javispedro | (hopefully...) |
| 22:21.01 | eean | Milhouse: you can get them from maemo.org as well :D |
| 22:21.26 | Milhouse | In which case I would agree with whoever asked the question - that might be a tad suspect. |
| 22:21.36 | lcuk | did we work out if they are in the package |
| 22:21.41 | lcuk | or if they are a postinst download |
| 22:21.50 | eean | well it would've been a really fast download :) |
| 22:21.56 | eean | I can ask dpkg, just a sec |
| 22:21.58 | pupnik_ | wow milhouse is back :) salut |
| 22:22.05 | Milhouse | hello pupnik :) |
| 22:22.41 | GeneralAntilles | wonders idly why FIASCO images are always just that. |
| 22:23.01 | Chani | blarg |
| 22:23.30 | Chani | my friend gave me a login to his server where he's set up sccratchbox. supposedly it works fine for him, but for me there are no targets... |
| 22:23.35 | pupnik_ | because the naming followed the creation?m what is wrong? |
| 22:23.42 | Chani | [sbox-: ~] > sb-conf select FREMANTLE_ARMEL |
| 22:23.44 | javispedro | well, as long as you use the FIASCO update. |
| 22:23.44 | Chani | sb-conf: No such target: FREMANTLE_ARMEL |
| 22:24.13 | eean | Chani: are you the same user as your friend? |
| 22:24.41 | *** join/#maemo Kt_ (n=Kirsat@24.99.39.10) |
| 22:24.45 | javispedro | bangs head at the sight of yet another word per word duplicate thread on tm |
| 22:24.46 | eean | lcuk: yea the roms are part of the main package |
| 22:24.46 | javispedro | s/tm/tmo |
| 22:24.50 | Chani | eean: nope |
| 22:25.11 | pupnik_ | i am amazed at n900 keyboard. it is like sitting on cake, as my muscovite gf used to say |
| 22:25.13 | Milhouse | The author of Almost TI seems to hosting his own ROMs |
| 22:25.28 | eean | 'own' |
| 22:25.28 | Chani | eean: also, I don't have root and he has a paper due soon. maybe it'd be easier to set it up locally... |
| 22:25.28 | Flandry | sitting on cake? :D |
| 22:25.35 | Milhouse | pupnik: So is that good? ;-) |
| 22:25.47 | pupnik_ | yea. cushy ride |
| 22:25.53 | Chani | o.0 |
| 22:25.56 | Milhouse | nice. |
| 22:25.59 | Chani | it doesn't *sound* good |
| 22:26.00 | eean | Chani: did you try straight sb-conf? are you sure it isn't already setup? |
| 22:26.25 | Chani | eean: I'm sure. when I logged in it told me I had no targets and I should go configure some in sb-menu |
| 22:26.26 | pupnik_ | Flandry: are you workin on UQM? |
| 22:26.37 | eean | Chani: an right sb-menu is what I meant :) |
| 22:26.56 | Flandry | i'm just waiting for it to past extras-testing |
| 22:27.05 | Flandry | i think it's ready to go |
| 22:27.08 | Chani | how much space does a maemo environment usually take? |
| 22:27.10 | CoreFusion- | is back |
| 22:27.14 | eean | Chani: i've never tried scratchbox with multiple users, I think each user gets their own targets and stuff. |
| 22:27.24 | Flandry | *get past |
| 22:27.28 | Chani | ...and how much *more* space will it take for all the dependencies of plasma-mobile, I wonder... |
| 22:27.30 | pupnik_ | the config package conflicts with installed uqm main package |
| 22:27.40 | *** join/#maemo Dialekt (n=Dialekt@cpe-98-148-100-186.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 22:27.45 | eean | Chani: well once you start building stuff it starts taking a lot :D |
| 22:28.08 | Flandry | say what? oO |
| 22:28.40 | pupnik_ | looks ok so far - check if planet rotation stop patch is applied. i heard game continues to calculate rotating planet visual while driving on planet |
| 22:29.05 | pupnik_ | also i have been toying with combat difficulty |
| 22:29.20 | pupnik_ | for the over 30 crows |
| 22:29.22 | pupnik_ | crowd |
| 22:29.23 | Flandry | it's built from svn from two weeks ago |
| 22:29.33 | Flandry | oh, i fiddled with that too |
| 22:29.44 | *** join/#maemo Anidel (n=anidel@82-45-62-77.cable.ubr04.mort.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 22:29.53 | Flandry | the frame rate is currently hard coded as 24 fps |
| 22:29.54 | Chani | eean: ya, no surprise there :P I think kde stuff is taking about 45gigs for me right now |
| 22:29.55 | Anidel | re |
| 22:30.11 | Flandry | i was thinking of making it a variable |
| 22:30.11 | pupnik_ | well maybe you can ask the uqm devs Flandry |
| 22:30.25 | pupnik_ | right. good |
| 22:30.25 | Chani | oh foo |
| 22:30.30 | eean | Chani: haha yea :D this is a problem for scratchbox since its pretty insistent about living in your root |
| 22:30.32 | Chani | scratchbox is going to want to use / |
| 22:30.37 | eean | jinx! |
| 22:30.39 | Chani | hugs LVM |
| 22:30.44 | pupnik_ | fps was my preffered slider a.sp |
| 22:30.56 | Chani | can I give /scratchbox its own partition, though? |
| 22:31.13 | eean | probably |
| 22:31.24 | eean | you could also use a virtual machine |
| 22:31.36 | Chani | beh, that would take even more space, no? |
| 22:31.37 | Mek | just make sure it is not mounted nodev, like usb drives usually are :) |
| 22:31.45 | Chani | my teacher said he had one set up... then said it was 10 gigs |
| 22:31.52 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 22:31.57 | Flandry | the thing i'm not sure about is that decreasing fps makes the game easier. Have you found it to be? |
| 22:32.17 | Flandry | it decreases responsiveness, for one thing |
| 22:32.32 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 22:33.39 | Flandry | pupnik_: could you please explain what package error you were describing? |
| 22:33.45 | eean | Chani: well a virtual machine is a whole OS. :) there's a ubuntu-based one that you could download |
| 22:34.00 | Chani | yeah, I know. |
| 22:34.52 | pupnik_ | flandry the config patch matches uqm and conflicts somewhere |
| 22:34.56 | eean | Chani: or I could give you my public key and I could try to fix your account. or that might be weird since its your friends computer. |
| 22:35.16 | *** join/#maemo Termana (n=user@123-3-91-95.static.dsl.dodo.com.au) |
| 22:35.22 | Termana | yello |
| 22:35.27 | pupnik_ | want error message in german? |
| 22:35.32 | Flandry | sorry, what config patch? you mean the "uqm-altstart"? |
| 22:35.36 | pupnik_ | zes |
| 22:35.38 | pupnik_ | yes |
| 22:36.10 | Flandry | oh, that's intentional. The uqm-altstart should be manually removed and i asked for it to be removed from repo |
| 22:36.22 | Flandry | it was a mistake to create it |
| 22:36.28 | pupnik_ | ok |
| 22:36.53 | Flandry | thanks for testing :) |
| 22:37.16 | *** part/#maemo edgar2 (n=edgar2@fatmama.karen.abo.fi) |
| 22:38.46 | Flandry | Once the current release gets into extras without any more issues i will look into optimizations and difficulty options. It's hard to do without an actual device and i hope to get an N900 soon :) |
| 22:39.57 | CoreFusion- | flandry: what are you making? |
| 22:40.21 | Flandry | i packaged Ur-Quan Masters (Star control 2) |
| 22:40.30 | CoreFusion- | ok |
| 22:40.58 | dmj726 | I just came to the rather frightening realization that Blender is usable at 800x480 |
| 22:41.00 | pupnik_ | the music is so good |
| 22:41.31 | Flandry | yes, it's awesome. That game blew me away when i first played it |
| 22:42.44 | *** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@nat/ibm/x-hlywoavkxexychin) |
| 22:42.52 | Termana | blender? usable? your pulling my leg |
| 22:43.09 | CoreFusion- | haha, and when was that :P it's not exactly a new new game :P |
| 22:43.21 | *** join/#maemo toddf (i=todd@pf.FreeDaemonHosting.com) |
| 22:43.22 | CoreFusion- | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:43.25 | CoreFusion- | - |
| 22:43.32 | CoreFusion- | - 1 new* |
| 22:43.37 | *** join/#maemo alecrim (n=alecrim@189.2.128.130) |
| 22:43.52 | toddf | has anyone seen links or howto's or other instructions on loading a different kernel or an alternate os on a N900 ? |
| 22:44.54 | Flandry | back when it came out, of course. The music is still good by today's standards, i'd say |
| 22:45.09 | GeneralAntilles | Ah, I see wazd's a bit down in the dumps. |
| 22:45.12 | dmj726 | I shrunk the 2.5 interface window to 800x480 |
| 22:45.22 | GeneralAntilles | Do we need to open a donation fund for him? |
| 22:45.23 | Shapeshifter | the n900 needs hal, right? |
| 22:45.25 | Shapeshifter | and runs it |
| 22:45.51 | dmj726 | it looks crowded, but not to the point where it would be useless |
| 22:46.08 | dmj726 | stylus required if you were to use it on the n900 |
| 22:47.00 | lcuk | dmj726, give us a realistic 800*480 screenshot in png format |
| 22:47.12 | lcuk | or something decent, lets have a looksee |
| 22:48.39 | *** join/#maemo caotic (n=caotic@189.157.133.129) |
| 22:49.14 | *** join/#maemo Dialekt (n=Dialekt@cpe-98-148-100-186.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 22:49.34 | dmj726 | http://imagebin.org/71909 |
| 22:50.09 | GeneralAntilles | dmj726, that's sick. |
| 22:50.09 | lbt | has anyone used gnokki with the n900 ? |
| 22:50.17 | dmj726 | That's just running in Ubuntu 9.10 of course |
| 22:50.46 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 22:50.47 | *** join/#maemo hannesw_ (n=hannes@93-82-70-0.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 22:52.15 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: well it kinda sucks ddp doesnt answer and not shipping to russia.. |
| 22:52.15 | *** join/#maemo Vulc|Laptop (n=A_Lovela@137.49.65.212) |
| 22:52.22 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=Valerio@Maemo/community/council/VDVsx) |
| 22:52.39 | GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, yeah, I know, DDP sucks. |
| 22:54.00 | Milhouse | my credit card hasn't been charged - has anyone had their card charged by ddp? |
| 22:54.11 | CoreFusion- | ... |
| 22:54.12 | GeneralAntilles | Milhouse, supposedly shipping should start next week. |
| 22:54.23 | CoreFusion- | It will come eventually :P |
| 22:54.24 | Milhouse | next week? bummer. |
| 22:55.25 | *** join/#maemo Lorthirk (n=cm0901@109.112.51.123) |
| 22:55.58 | Anidel | is it confirmed that ddp devices come with no warranty? |
| 22:56.49 | CoreFusion- | what???? |
| 22:56.55 | timeless | anidel: if you don't get a warranty, i'd suggest you be extremely careful w/ the usb port |
| 22:57.26 | CoreFusion- | how on earth could it be possible to buy a new phone that doesn't have warranty? |
| 22:57.51 | Anidel | that's what they state in their web pages ... |
| 22:57.58 | CoreFusion- | doesn't nokia provide a 2 year warranty anyway? (at least in EU) |
| 22:58.02 | Anidel | timeless :) but I do want a warranty |
| 22:58.16 | GeneralAntilles | Anidel, dunno. |
| 22:58.21 | Anidel | corefusion: no.. 1 year.. 2 year is something you find only in Italy AFAIK |
| 22:59.00 | CoreFusion- | hmm, i'm sure it's 2 years |
| 22:59.26 | GeneralAntilles | Anidel, half the stuff with the DDP program doesn't seem to apply. |
| 22:59.40 | GeneralAntilles | Anidel, the whole process is horribly broken. |
| 22:59.46 | CoreFusion- | at least here in finland they have 2 years warranty |
| 22:59.53 | GeneralAntilles | Right from the start with them demanding you input a company name. |
| 22:59.54 | Chani | :/ |
| 23:00.16 | Anidel | ga: i know.. but it 'd be nice is someone would tell me yes the warranty is there |
| 23:00.20 | Anidel | heck it's 250 euros |
| 23:00.20 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 23:00.20 | Chani | the wiki instructions for installing scratchbox aren't quite right |
| 23:00.39 | Chani | is following http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation |
| 23:00.39 | CoreFusion- | and that's good cos i'll be paying it for the next 2 years :P |
| 23:00.51 | GeneralAntilles | Anidel, yeah, I'd love for anything about the DDP to be made clear. |
| 23:00.52 | Chani | [root@brain maemo]# ./maemo-scratchbox-install_5.0.sh -u chani |
| 23:00.54 | Chani | E: Give installation path using '-s PATH' argument. |
| 23:01.04 | GeneralAntilles | Anidel, sadly is one big obnoxious mess. |
| 23:01.13 | Anidel | ga: of course I've emailed them.. no answer |
| 23:01.17 | Anidel | yeah indeed |
| 23:01.29 | GeneralAntilles | s/is/it's/ |
| 23:01.46 | timeless | gan: has anyone indicated which group runs ddp? |
| 23:01.46 | Anidel | thanks, infobot :p |
| 23:02.11 | timeless | from memory the n8x0 distributions were also unhappy experiences |
| 23:02.12 | GeneralAntilles | timeless, Forum Nokia? Dunno. |
| 23:02.16 | Chani | running a script I downloaded as root and getting an error.. makes me a little nervous about just trying things until it works |
| 23:02.27 | *** join/#maemo aakashd (n=aakashd@nat/mozilla/x-ocxwwwtxioycrzpt) |
| 23:02.30 | timeless | chani: use virtualbox |
| 23:02.31 | Milhouse | I've just emailed Nora asking for clarification on the warranty issue. |
| 23:02.40 | timeless | there's an image somewhere |
| 23:02.43 | timeless | nora? |
| 23:02.52 | Milhouse | Nora @ DDP |
| 23:03.16 | Chani | oh great, maemo doesn't like my kernel |
| 23:03.23 | Chani | timeless: yeah, maybe I will |
| 23:03.31 | Anidel | we complained in t.m.o but Quim never commented on those posts.. that scares me |
| 23:03.54 | Milhouse | yeah, odd that. |
| 23:03.58 | *** join/#maemo simula_ (n=mark@c-24-16-132-121.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 23:04.19 | Milhouse | If/when I get a reply from Nora I'll update the thread accordingly. |
| 23:04.31 | Anidel | yep |
| 23:04.57 | Anidel | they replied to andrea grandi who wrote few days after me.. he also asked about the warranty but no comments on that |
| 23:05.19 | eean | Chani: heh what issue does maemo have with your kernel? |
| 23:06.11 | *** join/#maemo gnuton (n=Tonio@cs181173103.pp.htv.fi) |
| 23:06.34 | timeless | eean: eh? |
| 23:06.36 | Chani | eean: it wants me to disable VDSO |
| 23:06.44 | timeless | oh yeah |
| 23:07.10 | javispedro | Chani: and you don't want to disable VDSO? or you can't? |
| 23:07.26 | Milhouse | night all |
| 23:07.31 | javispedro | nite |
| 23:07.34 | eean | Chani: its a runtime kernel option, its not a feature of the kernel |
| 23:07.38 | Anidel | nite milhouse |
| 23:07.47 | timeless | that's sbox 1 sucking |
| 23:07.51 | timeless | use sbox 2 |
| 23:07.51 | Chani | javispedro: I'm just feeling discouraged by all these little things not going quite right |
| 23:08.12 | javispedro | I fixed the sbox issue. |
| 23:08.14 | Chani | I don't want to end up hosing my laptop somehow; I forgot to do backups *again* |
| 23:08.17 | timeless | chani: so... |
| 23:08.34 | javispedro | Chani: by disabling vdso you're not going to hose anything. maybe lose a bit of performance. |
| 23:08.34 | timeless | sbox is essentially *old* technology |
| 23:08.37 | Chani | so I'll probably do backups tonight and work on this tomorrow |
| 23:08.39 | timeless | past EOL |
| 23:08.58 | Anidel | uff need to fix the damn rotation.. why on hell people required rotation :( |
| 23:08.59 | Chani | I have homework anyways |
| 23:09.10 | timeless | that it doesn't work out of the box w/ newer kernel designs/features isn't paricularly surprising |
| 23:09.28 | timeless | this is Linux after all, not Solaris |
| 23:09.32 | javispedro | well, it is surprising for me. |
| 23:09.35 | Anidel | timeless :) |
| 23:09.44 | javispedro | specially such a static linked program as sbox. |
| 23:09.45 | *** join/#maemo chris23atwork (i=42da7fd8@gateway/web/freenode/x-xnglugyokpsxnldb) |
| 23:09.45 | timeless | no promises are made about compatibility of any kind |
| 23:10.34 | timeless | w/ solaris, if the authors had a support contract, there'd be an official patch cluster (chain& |
| 23:10.47 | javispedro | lol |
| 23:11.34 | timeless | javispedro: seriously, that's what paying for support and contracting for interfaces mean |
| 23:12.04 | *** join/#maemo BBNS_ (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 23:12.07 | timeless | happens to like snv-1 |
| 23:12.15 | javispedro | sure. it just surprises me. |
| 23:12.47 | javispedro | probably not used to paying such levels of support :) |
| 23:12.47 | timeless | (a zone whose only purpose is to claim to be one major os version older than the global zone) |
| 23:15.07 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (n=timeless@a88-115-8-36.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 23:15.19 | timeless_mbp | well, it isn't quite like that |
| 23:15.44 | timeless_mbp | a company would basically review the apis they're using and see if any of them aren't listed as having a certain stability level |
| 23:15.52 | timeless_mbp | and for those they'd make an agreement with sun |
| 23:16.00 | timeless_mbp | or sun would suggest an alternative |
| 23:16.09 | timeless_mbp | but my impression is that it wouldn't cost that much |
| 23:16.24 | timeless_mbp | people seem to think of companies as being unreasonably demanding about payment |
| 23:16.42 | timeless_mbp | but it's really rarely the case.... an os/hardware vendor *wants* software for its platform because it drives sales |
| 23:18.10 | javispedro | in my case, probably because I still look at them from an individual PoV. |
| 23:18.23 | *** join/#maemo swc|666 (n=infidel2@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 23:19.09 | javispedro | either way, the vdso issue is ancient, and of course, fixed by some idiot... http://lists.scratchbox.org/pipermail/scratchbox-devel/2009-August/000457.html... now why it's not included yet is over me. |
| 23:19.32 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (n=alehorst@201.22.21.111.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 23:22.22 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (n=user@unaffiliated/pupnik) |
| 23:22.44 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=user@83.149.10.95) |
| 23:23.44 | wazd | ~seen fiferboy |
| 23:23.46 | infobot | fiferboy <n=fiferboy@Maemo/community/contributor/fiferboy> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3d 4h 53m 50s ago, saying: 'If qwerty12 doesn't know it, it can't be known'. |
| 23:23.57 | GeneralAntilles | wazd, :( |
| 23:24.02 | wazd | meh |
| 23:24.12 | GeneralAntilles | Dun buy an HD2. :( |
| 23:24.36 | wazd | GeneralAntilles: that's a nice phone) |
| 23:24.57 | *** join/#maemo ferdna (n=ferdna@cpe-24-92-112-49.elp.res.rr.com) |
| 23:24.57 | GeneralAntilles | wazd, c'mon, DDP sucks, but we NEED you. |
| 23:25.21 | wazd | GeneralAntilles: i'm not going anywhere as I said :) |
| 23:25.29 | GeneralAntilles | Yes, but we need you to have an N900. :P |
| 23:26.24 | w00t_ | mutters about release dates |
| 23:26.27 | wazd | GeneralAntilles: I love this community so I'll stay here for a while) |
| 23:26.28 | frals | hmm, mozilla weave seems pretty nice |
| 23:26.47 | GeneralAntilles | wazd, don't decide anything just yet, OK? |
| 23:27.41 | javispedro | yeah, some people emailed the DDP team today |
| 23:28.32 | zerojay | wazd: What happened? |
| 23:29.40 | *** join/#maemo viq (n=viq@unaffiliated/viq) |
| 23:30.09 | Anidel | 0j: he can have the device discounted, but seems he can't have access to it via forum.nokia and no reply so far from them... |
| 23:30.22 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 23:31.28 | zerojay | Ugh. |
| 23:31.32 | *** join/#maemo hannesw__ (n=hannes@91-115-216-120.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 23:31.38 | zerojay | All because of where he lives, I imagine. |
| 23:31.45 | Anidel | looks like |
| 23:32.47 | wazd | I'm not living in Kenya |
| 23:33.29 | GeneralAntilles | Liar. |
| 23:33.31 | wazd | What's wrong with russia, it's a freaking neighbour country for finland |
| 23:33.42 | javispedro | and nokia has a store there don't them? |
| 23:33.46 | javispedro | no excuse. |
| 23:34.06 | wazd | Yes, we have nokia store |
| 23:34.49 | Anidel | and is nokia selling the n900 there as well? |
| 23:35.02 | Anidel | there'll be a meetup event in Moscow |
| 23:35.05 | wazd | I was trying to ask what should I expect for like 3 weeks |
| 23:35.20 | zerojay | wazd: The fact that there is a meetup in Moscow makes all of this really stupid. |
| 23:35.34 | *** part/#maemo decasm (n=smithde@132-174-120-2.ip.oclc.org) |
| 23:35.35 | wazd | Both ddp and quim |
| 23:35.39 | javispedro | I think it's just general DDP stupidity and nothing country specific. |
| 23:35.51 | wazd | zerojay: yep |
| 23:36.51 | *** join/#maemo GNUton-BNC (n=gnuton@cs181173103.pp.htv.fi) |
| 23:37.29 | wazd | So I'd better expect nothing and live happily again |
| 23:37.55 | Anidel | but probably you can have it shipped somewhere else and someone will ship it back to you? |
| 23:37.59 | GeneralAntilles | wazd, who from Nokia is gonna be at the meetup? |
| 23:38.10 | GeneralAntilles | Could they bring one? |
| 23:38.23 | wazd | GeneralAntilles: don't know |
| 23:38.31 | GeneralAntilles | wazd, email Quim again. |
| 23:38.46 | wazd | GeneralAntilles: some marketing guy I guess |
| 23:38.57 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, ping? |
| 23:39.11 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, pong |
| 23:39.49 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, this seems like a good case for a chair. :P |
| 23:40.16 | wazd | Quim probably don't have much time cause of that Barcelona stuff, so I'd rather don't bother him much |
| 23:40.20 | Anidel | indeed |
| 23:40.34 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30) |
| 23:40.41 | Anidel | wazd I think this is exactly something quim should check out |
| 23:41.26 | *** join/#maemo GNUton-BNC (n=gnuton@cs181173103.pp.htv.fi) |
| 23:42.48 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, beleive me I already insisted a lot in this issue, seems that some matters in the community end up in some kind of black hole :( |
| 23:43.17 | wazd | Well, whatever, I'm staying here anyway, I can buy n900 for the full price anytime |
| 23:44.08 | wazd | Ironic, but effective :D |
| 23:44.55 | javispedro | well, without warranty and without any indication the ddp devices will ship some day.... it's not that much of a loss. |
| 23:45.08 | Anidel | :) |
| 23:45.54 | VDVsx | wazd, you can also try to ship it to one of the neighbor countries where some community folk lives :) |
| 23:46.17 | derf | Nokia does seem to go out of its way to make DDP participants feel like second-class citizens. |
| 23:46.18 | wazd | VDVsx: to ship what?) |
| 23:46.22 | *** join/#maemo GNUton-BNC (n=gnuton@cs181173103.pp.htv.fi) |
| 23:46.28 | VDVsx | the device |
| 23:46.29 | VDVsx | lol |
| 23:46.40 | wazd | VDVsx: I can buy retail right here) |
| 23:46.58 | VDVsx | wazd, thats good news ;) |
| 23:46.59 | wazd | VDVsx: and ddp doesn't work anyway |
| 23:47.53 | VDVsx | wazd, probably you can buy a cheap one locked to a carrier ;) |
| 23:47.56 | wazd | VDVsx: for a shitload of cash though. I hope they'll tell the price on the meettup |
| 23:48.17 | *** join/#maemo GNUton-BNC (n=gnuton@cs181173103.pp.htv.fi) |
| 23:48.19 | VDVsx | wazd, steal one there ;) |
| 23:48.31 | wazd | VDVsx: we haven't got locked devices here |
| 23:48.35 | VDVsx | bets that Jussi will be in that meetup |
| 23:48.54 | wazd | VDVsx: it's against the law |
| 23:49.04 | VDVsx | oh |
| 23:49.25 | Macer | Stskeeps: ? |
| 23:49.49 | wazd | VDVsx: I really doubt that there will be anyone important |
| 23:50.05 | VDVsx | wazd, so you can only have a device with discount trough a contract ? |
| 23:50.37 | VDVsx | wazd, it's a official meetup, so someone important should be there |
| 23:50.41 | wazd | VDVsx: No discounts at all |
| 23:51.07 | *** join/#maemo b-man17 (n=b-man17@pool-98-115-74-139.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 23:51.11 | wazd | VDVsx: some russian marrketing dummy at most :D |
| 23:51.16 | *** join/#maemo promulo (n=romulo@189.71.37.240) |
| 23:51.23 | VDVsx | wazd, lol |
| 23:51.31 | wazd | Oh look, panoramic desctop! |
| 23:51.42 | VDVsx | lololol |
| 23:51.43 | wazd | Desk* |
| 23:52.18 | zash | wazd: maemo+1? |
| 23:53.01 | wazd | zash:? |
| 23:53.15 | wazd | Error :D |
| 23:53.18 | VDVsx | wazd, make some friends there, since eldar seems a bit pissed with Nokia, maybe they can 'pass' 'exclusive' devices to you ;) |
| 23:53.39 | zash | "panoramic desktop" |
| 23:53.39 | wazd | VDVsx: bwahaha |
| 23:53.48 | *** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@stgt-5d84b0a9.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 23:54.05 | b-man17 | Stskeeps: i have the installation mode selection menu up and running in Mer-Installer: http://b-man.xceleo.org/images/mer/user-mode-selection.png :) |
| 23:54.20 | wazd | VDVsx: they can't pass me n900 what are you talking bout :D |
| 23:55.12 | VDVsx | wazd, maybe a n920/n950/nWhatever ;) |
| 23:55.34 | Anidel | n1000 |
| 23:56.33 | VDVsx | Anidel, I prefer the n5000, the kb is much better;) |
| 23:56.47 | Anidel | let's call it C64.. |
| 23:56.54 | Anidel | mm... will Frodo run on the N900? |
| 23:57.03 | wazd | VDVsx: not sure that after Eldar's deeds they still want to deal with russians |
| 23:57.48 | wazd | My case proves that :) |
| 23:58.50 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 23:58.52 | GeneralAntilles | wazd, hush. :P |
| 23:59.19 | VDVsx | wazd, they seems to have some sort of hard feelings with Russia based in the history, lol |
| 23:59.51 | wazd | VDVsx: damn)) |
