IRC log for #maemo on 20091110

00:00.13pupniklooks at lardman like a pimp on a scouting mission
00:01.38lardmanhmm, seems not, will save that one for tomorrow
00:03.10lardmanreminds pupnik that he's talking about a string of chars, not weed
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00:03.47lardmannight all
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01:08.23Robot101anyone get bluemaemo working?
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01:27.35DocScrutinizerlardman|gone: MD5?
01:29.19DocScrutinizerlardman|gone: man md5sum
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02:30.20n000bI've been trying to compile OpenCV on scratchbox. The X86 target compiled successfully :D
02:30.30n000bbut i'm having trouble with ARMEL
02:31.06n000bI get an error saying that the python2.3 lib (lpython2.3) can't be found.
02:31.16n000bIndeed, I can't find it.
02:31.56n000bDoes anyone know how I can install lpython2.3 on armel?
02:32.53n000b(I've tried installing python 2.5, but the configure script ignores it in favour of scratchbox's 2.3)
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02:42.53n000b...compiling --without-python for the time being...
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02:55.08n000bwould it be advisable for me in future to completely replace the python 2.3 in scratchbox, since it will confuse many ./configure scripts?
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03:39.16pupnikwww.anal0g.org/magic_silver_box/WHAT_ARE_YOU_DOING.mp3
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03:50.00n1c0hi
03:50.21n1c0bundle wifi wizard seems limited on n810
03:50.38n1c0i can only enter wpa alphanum
03:50.51n1c0special chars are impossible to enter in messagebox
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04:05.56pupnikbungle
04:06.01pupnikmr bungle
04:06.51clearysqueeze me macaroni
04:07.02clearyslop my face with that bologna...
04:07.04clearyhums
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04:12.47pwnguinis this an appropriate place to whine about the heisenburg uncertainty of the n900 release date?
04:12.58microlithnot really
04:13.20dmj726it's been whined about to death really
04:13.46pwnguinwell lemme just ask; does anyone believe newegg's ship date is accurate?
04:13.55microlithyou can post in the 2000+ post thread on the forums though, where you'll disappear into a sea of dumb if you like
04:14.00pwnguinheh
04:14.10dmj726http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33313&goto=newpost
04:14.19microlithis preordered with nokia and biding his time
04:14.46pwnguinhmm. amazon has it for like 100 less than nokia's price =/
04:15.10microliththey didn't when I placed my preorder
04:15.19pwnguinwonder if you can cancel a preorder
04:15.31microlithyou can, but I'm in no hurry
04:16.31pwnguinonward then
04:17.24pwnguinhow hard would it be to make an app that sorted pictures based on distance from your location?
04:17.37dmj726I suspect not hard
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04:18.07pwnguinim thinking of doing something like this: http://www.justoneclubcard.com/
04:18.08dmj726pwnguin: You should make one!
04:18.44pwnguindmj726: i'm wondering if the album stuff doesn't already have everything i need
04:19.15dmj726perhaps you can add the distance feature to it?
04:19.23pwnguinperhaps
04:19.37pwnguini dont have any hardware atm
04:19.43dmj726Neither do I.
04:19.50pwnguinall ive got is a lackluster virtualbox image for mer
04:19.54dmj726I'm just making mockups of a video editor gui
04:20.01pwnguinhah
04:20.11dmj726I have a scratchbox image of fremantle
04:20.19pwnguinstill hasn't learned the codenames
04:20.27dmj726http://imagebin.org/71044
04:20.35dmj726maemo 5 /a virtual n900
04:20.50pwnguini thought scratchbox was a toolchain
04:21.18dmj726I'm running maemo 5 somehow
04:21.57dmj726it's slow though
04:22.11pwnguinhonestly, i think the problem with a simple album approach is multiple franchise locations
04:22.23pwnguintheres more than one best buy in the area, for example
04:22.52pwnguinwhat you really want is to identify the store you're in, and show a barcode for it
04:23.21dmj726perhaps a time + location = event filter?
04:24.21pwnguinperhaps make a location DB
04:24.33n000bThis guy didn't get a reply to his post on the forum: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32646&highlight=python
04:24.59n000bI'm having the same problem. Does have any suggestions?
04:25.38pwnguin1) you link against python
04:25.43pwnguin2) you link against python2.3?
04:27.13n000bi'm trying to link against any python, but the configure script for the package i'm trying to install only finds the scratchbox python, which doesn't have the libpython installed
04:27.49n000b(and i can't find python2.3-dev package anywhere)
04:28.14pwnguindoes maemo even have 2.3?
04:28.24pwnguinubuntu has like 2.5 and 2.6
04:28.29luke-jrI would hope so.
04:29.00n000b2.3 is in /scratchbox/tools/bin
04:29.09n000bI have 2.5 installed in /usr/bin
04:29.34n000b(that is, /usr/bin of the chrooted environment)
04:29.59luke-jrI have 2.6 on my N810, but it's not Maemo :p
04:31.42dmj726I have a theory about camera phones.  They were kinda pointless for a long time.  I think the reason is that they needed to take quality pictures and transfer easily to one's PC.
04:32.12luke-jrthat always seemed obvious to me.
04:32.29luke-jrseriously, VGA res is useless
04:32.32luke-jrespecially for stills
04:32.34dmj726yeah, those are the two reasons I've rarely used my camera phone
04:32.51luke-jrnot to mention the shortage of space on the phone
04:33.08luke-jrand impracticality of putting things back once downloaded
04:33.09dmj726They were only useful in rare occasions, and they were more or less stuck on the phone
04:33.33dmj726I don't take pictures for exclusive use on the phone.
04:34.07dmj726and I don't want to spend dozens of dollars to stick them on another device.
04:34.09pwnguindisagree
04:34.20dmj726Of course both problems have been solved by now.
04:34.31pwnguincamera phones were invented for the same reason all technology is invented
04:34.33pwnguinpr0n
04:34.52luke-jr-.-
04:35.01luke-jrin that case, let's burn all technology
04:35.22microlithyou'll burn first, I assure you :)
04:35.30dmj726the wheel was invented for pr0n?
04:35.45pwnguinyes. why do you think there's a hole in the middle?
04:36.19luke-jr..............
04:36.27dmj726In the words of M Night. Shamylan: "What a twist!"
04:36.54dmj726at any rate, theres little point to a blurry, low res pic.
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05:56.39dmj726new video editing mockup: http://imagebin.org/71163
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06:31.47sarowergood morning all
06:32.02sarowerIs it possible to take the camera on a dialog
06:32.09sarowerany body? any idea?
06:32.48dmj726what do you mean?
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07:40.52Stskeepsthe shipping delays thread remind me of an asylum
07:41.44Corsacexpansys still says “4 days to go”
07:41.44Stskeepsand i really hope there are constructive and contributing people within that flood of new people..
07:45.41timeless_mbpit's snowing...
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08:03.35thuxmorning
08:05.19thuxis here lot of H1N1 patients? much smaller channel where I'm is one case for sure (tested)
08:05.51Stskeepsprolly had some after the summit
08:06.22thuxwas he really sick?
08:06.40Stskeepswell didnt die..
08:07.19thuxgood
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08:08.42thuxthey say here that it hits harder after 1970 born people who fortunately are usually better condition than before epoch bornt
08:10.50Stskeepsvirus determines if it works based on your unix timestamp?
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08:14.41thuxStskeeps: hehe i just remembered that unix epoch is 1.1.1970 isn't it?
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08:15.55thuxand doctors claim that persons who haven't live in sixties doens't have some resitance against virus
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08:34.33cosmo_what was the screenshot key combo on fremantle?
08:35.06timeless_mbpctrl-shift-p
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08:36.43Stskeepshttp://www.reuters.com/article/technologySector/idUSHEL00939820091110
08:37.34johnxkeen!
08:37.39cosmo_timeless_mbp: thanks
08:38.18Stskeepsmaybe the delay thread will finally get sane
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08:39.08timeless_mbpStskeeps: so much for not shipping the same week as a recall
08:39.16timeless_mbpfwiw, we were expecting to ship this week
08:39.29Stskeepstimeless_mbp: well, it's a new day
08:39.29timeless_mbpthe software had met final approval sometime last week
08:39.38Stskeepsso headlines are scrubbed of recall
08:39.47timeless_mbpi suppose i should be glad that we have some spine/backbone
08:40.57johnxmmm...really looking forward to a retail flashable image
08:40.57Stskeepsi'm looking forward to some of the more irritating bugs being fixed :P
08:40.59dmj726what's this about a recall?
08:41.07Stskeepsdmj726: some chargers
08:41.15dmj726for n900?
08:41.19Stskeepsanah
08:41.19Stskeepsnah
08:41.26johnxdmj726, if your charger has exposed metal and it sparking, you need to not touch it with your tongue
08:41.27dmj726oh, good
08:41.48dmj726...What chargers are these?
08:41.55Stskeepsnokia.com/press
08:42.56dmj726glad it's nothing that affects n900 users
08:42.58Stskeepsjohnx: nothing on tablets-dev yet :P
08:43.08johnxI'll et an auto refresh
08:43.12mgedminyay shipping
08:43.39dmj726I'm really happy that it's shipping
08:43.57johnxcongrats Nokia people!
08:44.27Stskeepsuntil you get it in your hands and realize they did a last minute casing change to Hello Kitty themed casing.
08:44.48johnxhas a high tolerance level to hello kitty
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08:45.28dmj726Wait until you see the Darth Vader/Master Chef/Hello Kitty mashup casing
08:45.47dmj726made of falsehood cake.
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08:46.11johnxactually, I want that fake wood paneling that was on 80s station wagons :D
08:46.20mgedminhello ctulthu
08:46.32johnxmgedmin, I'd probably pay money for that ...
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09:02.16fralsdislikes the n95 browser dying after a few refreshs on talk :(
09:02.50johnxit's to limit the amount of insanity you're exposed to
09:04.47fralsHehe, guess so
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09:06.04timeless_mbpheh
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09:16.18Stskeepswtf, talk.* shows me the n900 shipping thread as double
09:16.42cehtehmaybe it ships double now :P
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09:17.54johnxI'd settle for keeping mine twice as long :>
09:17.54fralsStskeeps: twice the insanity, half the fun
09:18.15johnxI have http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php on auto-refresh
09:18.17johnxno love yet
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09:22.02stevemLo, does anyone know if the N900 a) has a tilt sensor and b) rotates the screen when tilted?
09:22.15stevemand any videos of it doing this?  been looking high and low and can't find any
09:22.17Stskeepsyes it has a accelerometer
09:22.47stevemI know it goes portrait when a call comes in, but other than this - I've never seen it in portrait mode
09:23.27Stskeepsit is because many apps are not portrait
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09:23.40Stskeepsso they don't switch
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09:24.17Myrttihas anyone ported shell-fm to maemo5 yet?
09:25.04johnxstevem, if you find a video of the picture viewer, that goes portrait on rotate
09:25.25johnxand the actual sensing part of it feels pretty solid
09:25.37stevemhmm ok, at least I know there _is_  a limitation now, and I'm not just going crazy
09:25.39johnxit hasn't gone nuts on me yet
09:25.58stevemit's not something I'm overly concerned about, I expect that and MMS will get improved in later firmware?
09:26.05johnxyup
09:26.10stevemcool
09:26.17johnxNokia says portrait mode browsing before 2010
09:26.26stevembeen looking around at what contract deals deals in the UK there are for getting it free
09:26.29johnxand a lot of 3rd party apps have a portrait mode
09:26.38johnxxournal looks real nice in portrait :)
09:26.47stevemwas looking to get a N800/810 for years and was holding off for the N830 WiMax (never happened lol)
09:26.48Stskeepsi kinda want a rotation button instead
09:26.50stevemI suppose a N900 will do
09:26.55fralsNo official word on mms thou
09:27.10johnxStskeeps, I want more buttons, but that's just me ...
09:27.28johnxI'd also like to bind the shutter to something when the lens cover is closed ...
09:27.55stevemanyone know any good N900 on contract deals?  UK?
09:28.07fralsIts being worked on by people stupid enough to read wap specifications thou
09:28.11stevemI've seen the mobilephonesdirect.co.uk ones on voda... but the company looks dodgy
09:28.41suihkulokki10:38 < Stskeeps> maybe the delay thread will finally get sane
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09:29.12Stskeepssuihkulokki: well, okay, maybe a bit optimistic.
09:29.13Stskeeps:P
09:29.18suihkulokkinaah, now people will go completly nuts when some people get their shiny toys why they don't have theirs in their hands yet
09:29.35L0cutusre
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09:41.58SpeedEvilstevem: why dodgy?
09:42.14stevemSpeedEvil, well for a company selling phones, they never answer them
09:42.31stevemthe e-mails take days to respond and the livechat is shite
09:42.38SpeedEvilthey're quite a large company IIRC
09:42.44vesawhoever coded hermes: much <3 to you!
09:43.05AD-N770good morning from Barcelona
09:43.12SpeedEvilOnly contract news other than that is vodafone ireland have said they will carry it.
09:43.22stevemSpeedEvil, apparently run the Nokia Retail stores... but I'm not sure if it's all of them (bar london) or not
09:43.25AD-N770I'm planning attend the maemo long weekend in Barcelona
09:43.39stevemNo network in the UK has said they'll carry it
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09:43.52stevemJust web sites that offset the price from the commission
09:43.52SpeedEvilyes, just ireland.
09:44.00AD-N770but I'm not sure how to register me, have I just add me in the wiki ?
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09:49.09VDVsxlcuk, http://events.linkedin.com/Maemo-Barcelona-Long-Weekend/pub/163544 ;)
09:49.23VDVsxAD-N770, yes
09:49.43VDVsxAD-N770, and please introduce yourself here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=370695#post370695
09:50.25AD-N770VDVsx: what I need to put requested or planned ?
09:51.29VDVsxAD-N770, are you interested in the long-weekend event (conferences and training ) or in the UX met code event (hackfest) ?
09:51.43AD-N770hackfest
09:52.15VDVsxAD-N770, hackfest is by invitation only, so you should put "requested"
09:52.23AD-N770ok
09:52.37AD-N770what's the procedure to be invited?
09:52.41VDVsxAD-N770, and I gave you the wrong thread in this case,  1 sec
09:52.54lcukVDVsx, arent you down as going? i thought you were like first on the list
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09:53.57VDVsxlcuk, don't have money enough money atm :(, without a invite probably can't go :(
09:54.05VDVsxblames google and Nokia
09:54.18VDVsxAD-N770, instructions here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33719
09:55.04VDVsxAD-N770, and introduce yourself in that thread ^
09:55.38AD-N770ok, trying to register me in talk but it says that I'm a bot ;)
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09:56.53VDVsxAD-N770, wrong captcha ?
09:57.05AD-N770no, I've tried 3 times
09:58.25AD-N770same again
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10:07.12VDVsxAD-N770, any luck ?
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10:20.00VDVsxfinally : http://conversations.nokia.com/2009/11/10/nokia-n900-begins-shipping/  :P
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10:20.52w00tI'm tempted to say old news, but I'd have to run
10:20.55w00t;p
10:21.59VDVsxw00t, true, at least vague news :P
10:22.39w00thehe
10:24.19SpeedEvil10208380         Nokia N900         This order has not shipped.         0         0
10:24.21SpeedEvil:/
10:24.38mgedminthe n900 is shipping probably deserves to be in /topic
10:25.04mgedminstill no n900 in the forum nokia eStore
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10:25.25MyrttiI wonder what does "new sim card" mean in this context
10:26.04SpeedEvilMyrtti: I suspect it's a problem with the SIM software
10:27.00MyrttiSpeedEvil: I don't really care about what the problem is, I want to know how do I know which SIM card I have...
10:27.15w00tSpeedEvil: probably going from factory to distributors first, so it'll probably take a few more days to ship to individual people - though this is just a guess of mine
10:27.18Myrttiproblem is irrelevant, what is relevant if I'd be affected
10:27.23VDVsxMyrtti, it's new ? :)
10:27.47MyrttiVDVsx: "new" - In my books a sim card 9 months old is quite new still
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10:28.00Myrttineed a definition of "new"
10:28.04Stskeepswazd o/
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10:28.28wazdoh, Day S :D
10:28.37wazdgrats everyone :)
10:28.40fralsbug 5315
10:28.42povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5315 3 Mobile SIM card rejected
10:28.47VDVsxMyrtti, only affects the cards from the "3" network, afaik
10:29.00MyrttiVDVsx: and I have one... I'm not totally dim ;-)
10:29.13VDVsxMyrtti, hehe
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10:29.41hrwhi
10:32.15wazdand still no answer from NDDP, to any of my inboxes
10:32.28wazdI think I'm ignored
10:32.47VDVsxwazd, what's NDDP ?
10:33.02wazdVDVsx: nokia developer device program :)
10:33.26mgedminsounded like the name of a political party
10:33.34VDVsxyeah ;)
10:34.09mgedminthe national democratic democrat party?
10:34.17mgedmin"a n900 for every voter!"
10:34.19wazdrussia is in the list that will receive shipping for sale
10:34.43*** join/#maemo edgar2 (n=edgar2@fatmama.karen.abo.fi)
10:34.59wazdbut you can't get it thru forum.nokia :(
10:35.32wazdmgedmin: the n900 developer democratic party :D
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10:36.00Stskeepswho says it has to be democratic
10:36.11Stskeepsdespotic ;p
10:36.22SpeedEvilMyrtti: Openmoko also had a problem with 3 SIMs, and required a phone firmware update
10:36.54mgedminI can imagine: it's not trivial to handle three SIM cards in one slot
10:36.59wazdStskeeps: well, extras-testing approval is rather democratic move :D
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10:37.50SpeedEvilmgedmin: unfortuantely.
10:37.56SpeedEvilmgedmin: that'd be really handy
10:38.14Myrttirubbish
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10:39.23sarowergood morning all
10:40.05sarowerHow to invalidate rect when using HildonWindow?
10:40.13sarowerany body any idea?
10:40.35VDVsxnews firmware features: Among the functionality is an app which periodically pulls down contact profile photos and automatically syndicates them out to the various social networking and address book databases across the Maemo handset.
10:40.40VDVsxsounds like hermes :P
10:41.21StskeepsVDVsx: source?
10:41.34VDVsxStskeeps, http://www.slashgear.com/nokia-n900-ships-today-maemo-enhancements-get-video-demo-1063170/
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10:42.12Stskeepsah, peter's n900 is probably an adventure in itself
10:42.14*** join/#maemo GeneralAntilles (n=ryan@68.59.55.171)
10:42.16Stskeepsit doesn't mean it is in fw
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10:42.35VDVsxStskeeps, of course,lol
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10:46.45Myrttiflipflop
10:46.47sarowerI am using HildonWindow in my application and can not invalidate it!
10:46.58sarowerhow it could be done?
10:47.06SargunThe gods have blessed us on this very good day.
10:47.14Sargunhttp://www.reuters.com/article/technologySector/idUSHEL00939820091110
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10:47.24ccookeMorning, all
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10:47.38Sargunwhen will my Amazong preordered one get here?
10:47.53SargunWe've been blessed.
10:48.13MyrttiSargun: your guess is as good as ours
10:49.01SargunI'd say probably a week at least
10:49.04Sargunhttp://conversations.nokia.com/2009/11/10/nokia-n900-begins-shipping/
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10:51.18hrwsoon DDP threads start to appear with "argh!!! ddp not sent me info yet" :D
10:52.14edgar2anyone know of how to re-flash the n900 now that shipments have started?
10:52.18mgedminsarower, usually people need to invalidate the widgets they're drawing on, e.g. GtkDrawingArea, not the whole window
10:52.26edgar2ie, ROM image somewhere?
10:52.29mgedminthere's a gtk function for that iirc
10:52.33mgedmingdk_window_invalidate_rect
10:52.51mgedminmaybe you want gtk_widget_queue_draw_area instead, sarower?
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10:53.13sarowermgedmin: something like that
10:53.24Sargunit's been a little more than a few hours.
10:53.38sarowermgedmin: any way how i can draw widget over a drawing area
10:55.53mgedminhm
10:56.10mgedminmaybe GtkLayout containing both the drawing area and the widget?
10:56.29mgedminthere was a similar question on planet gnome today
10:56.44mgedminhttp://www.bani.com.br/lang/en/2009/11/rounded-boxes-in-gtk/
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11:01.34sarowerSuppose i have taken an image (suppose a.png) as gtkimage in a vbox later i want to change the image by (b.png)
11:01.38sarowerhow it could be?
11:02.33vesaedgar2: i don't think there's an image public yet. afaik the flashing software will be available as public domain which would suggest the image would too
11:03.31sarowermgedmin: ?
11:03.58mgedminis there a #gtk?
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11:04.03serenityhi
11:04.29Stskeepsvesa: flasher is open but images are usually behind eulas
11:04.34mgedminsarower, go ahead and change it, what's the problem?  do you have difficulties finding the api function?
11:04.36mgedmindevhelp rules
11:04.38mgedmingoogle does too
11:04.47serenityi just dl'ed Maemo_PreFinal_2_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Splitted.zip.001 and 002. After cat i have one .zip, but can't unpack it
11:05.11sarowermgedmin: I have changed but does not work!
11:06.04mgedminit should've
11:06.12mgedminpastebin your code?
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11:06.28SargunI'm going to wake up in a few hours, and find out my N900 has shipped, right? :-P
11:07.22vesamm sweet. samsung coming out with their own mobile os
11:08.01lardmanmorning
11:08.12vesaoops, wrong channel that =/
11:08.34lardmanvesa: you've given yourself away now....
11:08.52frals:D
11:09.21vesadamn... =)
11:09.37vesathe more the merrier, eh?
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11:12.50sarowerSUppose i have three vbox and inside one i am packing an image by gtkimage. I wnat to change it during run time
11:13.02sarowerbut it does not work!
11:13.05mgedminah, but is the samsung mobile os built on linux?
11:13.11sarowerstrange!
11:13.16mgedminyeah!
11:13.53mgedminsarower, the process debugging boils down to systematically examining your assumptions and finding which one (or which ones) do not match reality
11:15.09serenityanyone an idea, why unpacking doesn't work?
11:16.34stevemOMG an N900 WiMax!
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11:17.49Stskeepsstevem: source? :P
11:17.54stevem(just kidding!)
11:18.05lcukserenity, same here.  last year i got one and it was packed with .7z and managed to get that back together
11:18.16lcuki tried a few days ago and got 2 parts incomplete
11:18.27lcuknot had time to see why i couldnt glue em back together tho
11:18.36Stskeepsjust get a ubuntu VM and put the scripts on top.
11:18.45serenitythe md5 sums are ok, but the result after cat doesn't work
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11:19.49stevemDo you think Nokia's relationship with WiMax is dead?
11:20.35lardmanurgh, maemo.org is sooo slow
11:20.44lardmanor is that the isp problem?
11:21.02mgedminafaiu the servers are overloaded
11:21.11Stskeepslardman: they did a changeover today
11:21.16lardmanmore servers sounds like a good idea
11:21.20mgedminI dunno if the bottleneck is CPU or I/O
11:21.30mgedminmore servers are planned in december
11:21.34mgedminjust repeating rumors
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11:21.41lardmanthere must be some old N810s scudding about to add the the existing 770
11:21.43mgedminwell, not rumors, official news from the official webmaster
11:21.46fralsI dont notice any slowness over my 3g connection
11:21.55mgedminafaiu they're building a new server room from scratch
11:21.57mgedminout of lego blocks
11:22.03mgedminfor the new n810 servers
11:22.04Stskeepsno, out of bricked n900s
11:22.05Stskeeps:P
11:22.09edgar2:)
11:22.26lardmanah, that's why it's slow, overly aggressive power saving on the wifi connections
11:22.44hannohi there. what's the target price one should settle for in Europe for the n900? there are already offers at 500€, will it go lower than that?
11:22.45lardmanis Attila Csipa on here somewhere?
11:23.16serenityhanno: not much, because then it will be cheaper than n97 mini
11:24.58lardmanI was wanting to talk to him about Shepherd and context aware applications
11:26.13sarowerSuppose that i have added a button in a container. Is it possible to change the widget in the run time?
11:26.25lardmanyes
11:26.34lardmanas long as you have a pointer to it
11:26.34sarowersuppose later i want to add a label there
11:26.47hannothe web is full of fraudulent sellers for the n900, already.
11:26.49lardmanon the button or above/below/beside it?
11:27.40sarowerlardman: Suppose fiet time i have added a button and in the run time i want to add a label instead of that button
11:27.42serenityhanno: but all about 500€s
11:27.47saroweris it possible?
11:27.58hannoserenity - the fraudulent ones are lower. :-)
11:28.01serenityexpect 450€ as cheapest to the end of year
11:28.05lardmansarower: yes
11:28.21lardmansarower: though I'd need to look at the docs to work out how to remove a widget and add in a new one
11:28.31lardmannot being much of a UI person myself ;)
11:28.44sarowerlardman: So !
11:28.57sarowerlardman: it is still a problem to me
11:29.05hannoi don't believe this guy is real - http://www.b2b-zentrum.de/angebot/1008921/artikel.html - there are dozens like this one out there.
11:29.41lardmansarower: try something like this: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/GtkContainer.html#gtk-container-remove
11:30.11lardmanor as it says there, just destroy it and it will be removed
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11:30.25rangehanno: nope, even without MwSt. this is too low.
11:31.41fralsNice, first post about his order not being shipped yet
11:32.17fralss/post/topic/
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11:33.19lcuklardman, sarower havent you then got to make sure you put the new label/widget back int othe same packing order space?
11:33.22lardmansarower: seem suitable then?
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11:33.40cehtehhttp://www.papayaone.com/sensor-cellphone-p-3211.html  << \o/ china
11:33.40lcukif you just append from a layout the new item will just come at the bottom
11:33.47lardmanlcuk: in which case you ask the container for the location of the widget and insert it in the same place
11:34.01lcukyeah but must remember to do it before you destroy it
11:34.19lardmanyep
11:34.27crashanddieI've got 12 megs of free space left
11:34.31crashanddiebut I need to install GCC
11:34.33crashanddiewhich is 14 megs
11:34.35crashanddiewhat do I do?
11:34.40lardmanjump
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11:34.56lardmanalso the fs is compressed, so you might make it, just....
11:34.56crashanddieeverybody jump whooooooooo-hooooo
11:35.11lardmanif you're talking about the rootfs that is
11:35.12lardman?
11:35.13ccookecrashanddie: what are you installing to?
11:35.21lardmanotherwise buy a bigger uSD card
11:35.27crashanddieno go
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11:35.35crashanddielardman: I can't change the uSD card
11:35.46ccookecrashanddie: do you have space on it?
11:36.27wazdI still cant see any phone there :(
11:36.58ccookecrashanddie: I take it you can't uninstall anything?
11:37.08mgedminis gcc optified?
11:37.11xnt14guys the n900 is (coming) out (very soon?) !
11:37.13mgedmin(probably not)
11:37.19Stskeepsxnt14: shipped toda
11:37.20Stskeepsy
11:37.23Stskeepsshipping that is
11:37.27xnt14awesome ;)
11:37.28crashanddieccooke: yeah, sure
11:37.41crashanddielardman: PM
11:38.05cehtehwonders what (local) versions are shipped, which countries
11:38.07lcukmgedmin, http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/53026
11:38.15crashanddieo/ lcuk
11:38.15ccookecrashanddie: if not and you have space free, there's the script I wrote a while back - that'll shunt some stuff into /opt for you
11:38.33crashanddieccooke: I tried that, but didn't know what I was supposed to do with it
11:38.48crashanddiewhat was the name again?
11:38.51lcukhi seb
11:39.05lcuktries to beat up scratchbox
11:39.12crashanddiehelps lcuk
11:39.17mgedminhands lcuk an extra spanner
11:39.22Stskeepshands lcuk a knife
11:39.27crashanddiescratchbox can feel the love
11:39.30mgedminpoor scratchbox
11:39.32ccookecrashanddie: http://pastebin.com/f1355fe1f
11:39.35mgedminstands back and watches
11:40.38crashanddieccooke: yup, that's the one, but how do you use it? It started asking me a bunch of questions and I didn't know what would break or not
11:40.39lardmancrashanddie: I don't see any PMs
11:40.56crashanddielardman: you need a dog then
11:40.57zaheermthe pulsing dots when asked to wait for something, is it in a hildon widget i can use in my app?
11:41.01lardmancrappy client
11:41.07ccookecrashanddie: okay. It's asking about whether to move files into opt for each package, ordered by the size of files in /usr
11:41.10lardmanrestarts, bbiam
11:41.26ccookecrashanddie: busybox is a *bad* one to move
11:41.33ccookecrashanddie: but libqt is a good bet
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11:41.37crashanddieccooke: ok
11:41.41lardmanre
11:41.49crashanddieccooke: so which command should I type to arc or skip?
11:42.13ccookecrashanddie: Type 'arc' to move files to /opt
11:42.22ccookecrashanddie: enter to move to the next package
11:42.46ccookecrashanddie: if you've already moved a package's files, 'undo' will undo it.
11:43.10ccookecrashanddie: and as I said - *don't* move busybox or anything else you think isn't a GUI app :-)
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11:43.50ccookeI've moved:
11:44.50ccookeadobe-flashplayer, hildon-theme-alpha, libqt4-core, nokia-maps-core, nokia-maps-maplets, nokia-maps-ui
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11:44.51ccookeoh, and when I tried openttd, I'd moved that, too :-)
11:44.51serenitywill a packages out of debian-arm-repo work on a n900?
11:44.51serenity-s
11:44.58ccookeserenity: without modification it's unlikely
11:45.09serenityok
11:45.47crashanddiedoes the n900 support SDIO?
11:46.18shayatinanyone tried porting mupen64 on maemo ?
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11:46.33ccookecrashanddie: given the location of the sd card, I'd guess the answer's no regardless of technical ability
11:46.50crashanddieeh?
11:46.59lardmanbecause you can't close the door
11:47.00crashanddiedid not compute
11:47.17lardmandepends on whether the card is oversided or not
11:47.21crashanddieah, ok
11:47.27crashanddieyeah, not an issue here
11:47.35lardmanbut you may well find there's no support as most cards are oversided
11:47.37ccookecrashanddie: the SD card is under the battery cover and fits into a niche: There's nowhere for anything that wouldn't fit in a microsd enclosure to go.
11:48.00crashanddieccooke: yeah, but SDIO does not == bigger card, so the protocol could be supported, correct?
11:48.01lardmans/oversided/oversized
11:48.15ccooke... actually, I've never seen a microsd SDIO card. Only full-size ones.
11:48.18lardmanyou'll need to check the kernel code
11:48.23sarowerI have a drawing area widget where i am playing my camera. After taking the photo i want to show the image over the drawing area instead of camera
11:48.24crashanddiefair enough
11:48.29sarowerIs it possible?
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11:48.40lardmansarower: yes
11:48.41crashanddiesarower: just change the imgsource for a second
11:49.39sarowercrashanddie: Sorry! Could not understand
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11:53.12Stskeepsmorning zerojay
11:53.42crashanddiesarower: your camera viewer area is set to the camera as the image source
11:54.08sarowercrashanddie: yes...!
11:54.08crashanddiesarower: after taking the picture, you have the image, set that as the image source for a few seconds, then switch again to the camera input
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11:54.45ccookeconsiders: bluetooth keyboard, portable LCD TV with batteries, n900.
11:54.56ccookeThat could be an interesting mobile coding station :-)
11:55.13sarowerrashanddie: not few second...
11:55.35saroweri need it to show there for long time untill get the user event
11:55.41sarowerrashanddie:...!
11:55.57crashanddiewell, that's your decision mate
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11:59.03sarowerrashanddie: How i will set the image source source . It works with gst stuff, right?
11:59.21crashanddiesarower: you didn't even say which toolkit you're using
11:59.30crashanddiesarower: but yeah, if you're using gstreamer, it should be possible
11:59.45crashanddieNokia Maps is based on HTML?
11:59.57sarowerrashanddie: camera is related to gstelement
12:00.09crashanddieplease type my nickname correctly
12:00.32rangeHey, but it made sense, too :)
12:00.36crashanddietrue
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12:01.48wazdroadrashanddie :D
12:02.07lopzhey ;)
12:02.16sarowercrashanddie: Sorry yaar!
12:02.22jeremiahcrashcrashcrashanddie
12:04.01sarowercrashanddie: camera is showing over a drawing area widget. If i can change the drawing area widget by gtk image widget!
12:04.01sarowercrashanddie: it would be very simple
12:04.02crashanddiesarower: you could do something like that
12:04.03sarowercrashanddie: but i can not do that!
12:04.15sarowercrashanddie: IT IS NOT WORKING
12:04.25sarowercrashanddie: i am doing like this...
12:04.36crashanddiesarower: I would suggest you play around with a few different algorithms (switching gstreamer source, switching drawing area type, hidding/displaying the correct drawing area)
12:04.55sarowergtk_container_remove(GTK_CONTAINER(appdata->cam_box), appdata->screen);
12:04.57crashanddiesarower: you're talking to me like it's my fault or I care
12:05.02Myrttihave a lollipop, for gods sake
12:05.07sarowergtk_container_add(GTK_CONTAINER(appdata->cam_box), img);
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12:05.36sarowercrashanddie: No man i am considering you as an expert
12:05.37*** join/#maemo asolsson (n=asolsson@esprx02x.nokia.com)
12:06.22crashanddiesarower: you're wrong
12:06.25Myrtticrashanddie: you've deserved a cookie
12:06.42Myrttihands crashanddie a cookie
12:08.09LynoureHow does one bookmark webpages in N900?
12:08.28LynoureAfter all this use, I still have not figured it out.
12:08.59auenfprolly the 'menu'
12:09.32Lynoureauenf: I tried tapping Bookmark there, and promptly was sent to look at my bookmarks
12:10.01jeremiahUse the little "+"
12:10.08VDVsxLynoure, the big "+" in the bar
12:10.10VDVsxeheh
12:10.15jeremiahThat will bookmark stuff for ya!
12:10.36wazdhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llg7e0sLHMA&feature=channel
12:10.37LynoureThanks,... so obvious... and so not :)
12:10.38jeremiahbig, little "+"
12:10.43auenfwas it 'bookmark' or 'bookmarks' in the 'menu' ?
12:10.53wazdin fact n900 is not that "OHMYGOOOOD!!!" much thicker than droid
12:11.31LynoureI still need to find a way to tell the Application manager to not to hog everything at the first sight of a network connection
12:12.06LynoureBecause usually when I get suddenly online after a day offline, it is  to urgently check bus schedules.
12:12.49jeremiahLynoure: Yeah, I am not fond of that either.
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12:20.44GeneralAntillesyawns.
12:20.52GeneralAntilleswonders what build the retail units will have.
12:21.04jeremiahHarmattan.
12:21.59lardmanI was wondering that actually ;)
12:23.35GeneralAntillesJaffa, ping?
12:24.34VDVsxI bet w44 :P
12:24.54lardmanI wonder when we will get this mysterious new image...? :)
12:24.56GeneralAntilles41-10
12:25.23VDVsxGeneralAntilles, some blogger already have w42, I've seen screenshots
12:25.29edgar2so where to keep looking for the new image?
12:25.47edgar2also, i think i'd like to reflash
12:25.55zaheermpeople seem to have w45
12:26.12VDVsxbahh, I loose ;)
12:26.21GeneralAntillesVDVsx, doesn't mean it'll be in retail. :P
12:26.22lardmanzaheerm: people like whom?
12:26.35lardmannot us at any rate :)
12:26.36zaheermi saw a bug report closed saying ti works fine with w45
12:26.39zaheermnot me :)
12:26.44VDVsxGeneralAntilles, true
12:26.49GeneralAntillesAndre just closed some for w46.
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12:30.18VDVsxwants a new image with portrait mode on the browser :P
12:30.45lardmanPortrait mode on the calendar for me please
12:31.49ShadowJKso nokia press release just said they're delivering n900 today. They didn't say to who, though
12:31.54*** join/#maemo digitalstimulus (n=digitals@cpe-071-077-144-145.nc.res.rr.com)
12:32.06GeneralAntillesShadowJK, distributors, clearly.
12:32.11ShadowJKMaybe they meant they sent a discounted one out
12:33.44zaheermprobably means nokia retail won't see them for a few days
12:33.54*** join/#maemo TomaszD (n=Tomasz@unaffiliated/tomaszd)
12:34.03Dantonicyes but when are they going to send it to me??
12:34.11vesasoon(tm)
12:34.30TomaszDhey, is the release firmware available somewhere now that shipping has begun?
12:34.48edgar2+1
12:34.58vesanot publically as i've understood from statements here
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12:35.04TomaszDwhy?
12:35.08MyrttiI think someone should change the topic...
12:35.24Myrtti"yes, it has started shipping, but your guesses are as good as ours"
12:35.55GeneralAntillesTomaszD, because nobody has uploaded it yet?
12:35.56vesaTomaszD: you'd have to ask nokia.
12:36.45t_s_ohrmf, typical that i would hit a income valley when it starts showing...
12:36.49TomaszDI will ask Nokia
12:37.13lardmanwait till you get a device in your hand
12:37.38edgar2worksforsome :)
12:37.52edgar2but for the sparta people, not so much
12:38.49vesaanyone else had trouble with scratchbox net connectivity? works out but not in =/
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12:39.21vesait has worked in the past, usually a reboot helps but not this time
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12:41.43pupnikgetting some crazy noises from mplayer playing back recent youtubes
12:41.55pupniksomebody stacksmashing?
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12:44.07VDVsxso, "Maemo select" is 'mirroring' Extras ? :)
12:44.32VDVsxhttp://maemo.nokia.com/maemo-select/applications/1/0/0/#content
12:45.35kalikianatolinot as such, it includes Nokia apps as well
12:46.11JaffaMorning, all
12:46.18JaffaGeneralAntilles: pong
12:47.12VDVsxkalikianatoli, yup, but almost all 'Extras' apps as well ;)
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12:47.29jeremiahVDVsx: Nice catch :)
12:47.36*** part/#maemo JamieBennett1 (n=JamieBen@90.200.132.97)
12:50.08zaheermtrending topic on twitter: Nokia N900 Now
12:50.26zaheermVDVsx, wasn't that the idea?
12:50.48JaffaVDVsx: It's supposed to be the "best" of Extras. As Extras only contains good stuff right now...
12:51.04VDVsxzaheerm, more or less, I'm not complaining or rating ;)
12:51.13VDVsxJaffa, ehehhe, true
12:51.33GAN900Jaffa, I had a though as I was skimming through the app list.
12:51.56GAN900Jaffa, why not drop the apostraphe from Hermes' short description?
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12:53.12jeremiahVDVsx: Do we have a facility for logging the extras-testing chat today?
12:53.27jeremiahI think I can log it with irssi if you want.
12:53.39VDVsxjeremiah, mmlogger is there
12:53.47jeremiahokay, cool
12:53.48wazdCopernicium
12:53.48wazdPeriodic table of chemical elements.
12:53.57vesascratchbox resolving resolved, wrong dns in resolv.conf...
12:54.16VDVsxjeremiah, but I don't know where the logs will end up, X-fade is the bot owner
12:54.25wazdCopernic was an astronomer
12:55.15GAN900X-Fade will have to upload them.
12:55.46VDVsxmgedmin, ping
12:56.13jeremiahaha
12:56.18JaffaGAN900: Because it enriches the information of your contacts, and so it's possessive.
12:56.45jeremiahAnd it's grammatically correct. :)
12:57.16GAN900Jaffa, it can work either way
12:58.03GAN900Personal, I think it sounds better without.
12:58.13JaffaVDVsx: Besides, it's not all Extras apps: neither of mine are
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12:58.29JaffaGAN900: It sounds the same either way ;-)
12:59.08GeneralAntillesYou know what I mean. ;)
12:59.14GeneralAntillesOr maybe it just sounds less British.
12:59.27Jaffai.e. inaccurate and lazy? ;-)
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13:01.09wazdhttp://maemo.nokia.com/maemo-select/applications/vncviewer/ lol
13:02.48wazdnice screenshot
13:02.52frals:D
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13:03.10GAN900I vote for "contact information" or "contacts information"
13:03.26zaheermJaffa, hermes not in maemo select?
13:03.33Jaffazaheerm: Correct.
13:03.36zaheerm:(
13:03.39zaheermthat sucks
13:03.51JaffaPresumably because of a rogue apostrophe? ;-)
13:04.28zaheermlol
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13:04.37GeneralAntillesthrows paper balls at Jaffa.
13:05.24fralsi wonder if its time to throw away that "n900 shipping delayed" now that its shipping from the factory
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13:09.32kurtanhttp://www.mobil.se/artikel/nokia_borjar_salja_supermobilen_n900_mob_091110130156-421.html
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13:09.39kurtanthat makes me so angry i could kill
13:10.34truwhy?
13:11.22kurtannokia sweden puts a hold on deliveries until the phone can handle 3's sim cards
13:11.48MyrttiHA-HA<nelson/>
13:12.01zaheermkurtan, 3 exist in sweden?
13:12.02kurtanis not amused
13:12.07kurtanyes
13:12.10SpeedEvilis amused.
13:12.20zaheermhopefully nokia uk won't do the same
13:12.20Stskeepskurtan: time to demonstrate in front of the shops
13:12.34Stskeepskurtan: which is completely stupid since it's a SW issue, not HW
13:12.54kurtanindubitably
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13:13.29SpeedEvilAssuming the flash can be performed by the user
13:13.41kurtanand 3 only has like 1/6th of the market, its rubbish
13:13.42zaheermthey want more sales for n97 mini perhaps
13:13.50*** join/#maemo stemosco (n=stemosco@esprx01x.nokia.com)
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13:14.09SpeedEvilFor legal reasons - for example - is the firmware able to be shipped to end-users, along with a flash updater tool
13:14.17StskeepsSpeedEvil: SSU..
13:15.23zaheermNSU on win32 will work i guess
13:15.45jeremiahkurtan: I have 3 in Sweden - I had to leave them just to get my N900 to work as a phone.
13:15.54jeremiahI doubt this will be fixed anytime soon. :(
13:16.19Stskeepsit'll be in a SSU in december some claimed
13:16.30Myrttijeremiah: aw. I take my Nelson-impression ha-ha back
13:16.32lcukpeter claimed such on tmo i believe
13:16.40jeremiah\0/
13:16.44kurtanthe dude from nokia sweden claimed it to be in the next firmware due in week 49
13:16.46jeremiahBut too late for me.
13:17.04jeremiahBesides, 3 sucks.
13:17.10jeremiahTelenor FTW!
13:17.43lcukhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=353767
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13:18.43fralsajgioshagdg wtf sweden not selling it
13:18.52mgedminVDVsx, pong, kinda
13:18.56fralsgod i hope my retailer is selling it - no sane man is using 3 anyway!
13:19.20kurtanhttp://www.minhembio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=240785&view=findpost&p=2651435
13:19.33lcuko_O i have unlimited internet and SMS from o2 on my payg sim :D
13:19.40lcukonly 7.50 a month as a bolton :D
13:19.57pupnikthat is nice
13:19.57lcukis now online as it happens
13:20.38Shapeshifterheh. availability in my preferred shop went up to "early december" as well.
13:21.57zaheermlcuk, except when all your batteries run out of juice ;)
13:22.09zaheermor o2's data network stops working ;)
13:22.14Shapeshifterthe waiting game continues. I really didn't expect it any earlier then mid-november when they said october a while ago
13:22.37VDVsxmgedmin, Can you loan us one of your bots ? we need one at maemo-meeting :P
13:22.49lcukzaheerm, have spare batteries, am used to having no internet or credit at all
13:22.49fralskurtan: I wonder if komplett/dustin etc gets their phones from Nokia Sverige or if its only for the people who order from store.nokia.se
13:22.59lcukso however much uptime i have now is up from before
13:23.22kurtanfrals: dunno, i've ordered from nokia sverige thou :(
13:23.41VDVsxmgedmin, can be the one at maemo-testing, we don't need him there anymore
13:23.43lcukanyway, wasnt stopping, dinner pinged bbl
13:23.55fralsokey, i just mailed dustinhome and asked :P
13:23.55rangeUuuuuh, microwave.
13:24.06mgedminVDVsx, okay, just a sec
13:24.13jeremiahfrals: They probably get it from the distributor channel, i.e. TechData or Ingram Micro, etc.
13:24.42mgedminVDVsx, how urgent is this?
13:24.44fralsyeah, thats what im hoping... otherwise im gonna use my silja card and go to helsinki and buy it lol
13:24.47*** join/#maemo goshawk (n=quassel@93.34.61.153)
13:24.56VDVsxmgedmin, 14:30 UTC :P
13:24.57kurtan:p
13:25.00jeremiahsilja card?
13:25.09jeremiahWhat is that? :)
13:25.13kurtanferry line card
13:25.14mgedminthe bot should be there (unless the server reboots and it forgets to re-join)
13:25.15jeremiahI am going to Riga on Siljay
13:25.23VDVsxmgedmin, but if you don't have time, dont worry ;)
13:25.24jeremiahShould I get a card?
13:25.28mgedminI'll make the logs available on the web this evening, if it's all right
13:25.36jeremiahmgedmin: Should be fine.
13:25.37fralsyeah, you get a bonus card or something and you get cheaper tickets/stuff
13:25.43jeremiahw00t
13:25.55jeremiahI'm in Gbg so I won't use Silja that often.
13:26.05VDVsxmgedmin, thanks :)
13:26.14*** join/#maemo tonikitoo (n=tonikito@189.2.128.130)
13:26.26*** join/#maemo saltsa_ (i=aunola@217.30.179.131)
13:26.48*** join/#maemo DantonicN800 (n=user@c-24-7-146-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
13:30.47JaffaVDVsx: luovanto and WeAreMaemo have just confirmed on Twitter that all Extras apps are supposed to show up in Maemo Select (atm, at least)
13:32.05GeneralAntillesWhat the HELL is on http://maemo.nokia.com
13:32.16GeneralAntillesAre those mutant monster fingers?
13:32.26*** join/#maemo crashanddie (i=c336e713@SecuraBit/listener/crashanddie)
13:32.29crashanddielolwut
13:32.30Stskeepscreepy hands v2?
13:32.34crashanddieapt-get install grep
13:32.38crashanddie??
13:33.10inzGA, they're penguins...
13:33.14Stskeepswtf at the penguin
13:33.14inz...with lasers...
13:33.22Stskeepsfriggen lasers!
13:33.25inzyesh
13:33.26inz!
13:33.33GeneralAntillesinz, Ok, I can see that.
13:33.36GeneralAntillesSort of
13:33.39inzSharks just became obsolete
13:33.42mgedminaieeee!
13:33.52jeremiahIs that really a penguin?
13:34.01Stskeepsit's a hardcore penguin.
13:34.07GeneralAntillesThere are dangerous minds behind the N900 marketing campaign.
13:34.33Stskeepsi want to see the first video as a tv commercial
13:34.33Stskeeps:P
13:35.08fralsthe maemoproject ad is pretty nice, doesnt say a whole lot to people not familiar with the device thou
13:35.32jeremiahIt's a 'lifestyle' thing
13:35.49rangeI think they should update the stores. "BUY NOW" -> "Preorder" (at least for .de)
13:36.03*** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@pasanda.collabora.co.uk)
13:36.04*** join/#maemo warp10_ (n=warp10@92.243.19.190)
13:36.13JaffaBah, no N900 in Forum Nokia eShop yet. Wondered what the UK discount price would be
13:36.19crashanddiehalp: checking for grep that handles long lines and -e... configure: error: no acceptable grep could be found in
13:36.19inzjeremiah, the one peeking (with LASER EYEs) behind the text is easiest to recognise
13:36.57ccookeObviously they're playing some sort of laser tag game. With their eyes, and the Maemo sculpture for cover
13:37.09jeremiahcrashanddie: Can you use xargs?
13:37.16ccooke(it'd be ideal, actually - lots of holes to peer out of)
13:37.16Stskeepsit's symbolism of the gnubies attacking maemo for it's closed blobs
13:37.30crashanddiejeremiah: not my configure script, and it's bloody massive
13:37.32mgedmincrashanddie: apt-get install findutils?
13:37.43crashanddiejeremiah: and it works in scratchbox
13:37.45mgedminassuming it exists
13:37.52mgedminbusybox grep is lame
13:37.52lardman|homeam trying to port some code that uses the apparently rather nasty gtk_ui_manager_add_ui_from_file() functions, any hints?
13:38.15crashanddiemgedmin: lol... same as apt-get install grep... Try it, it's fun
13:38.32crashanddieAfter this operation, 194MB disk space will be freed.
13:38.44mgedminand the device will be bricked
13:38.49mgedminapt should totally say that
13:38.52ccookecrashanddie: erk!
13:40.02crashanddiemgedmin: other options?
13:40.16jeremiahAfter this operation, 194MB disk will be freed and your device will go up in flames.
13:40.32mgedmin5995,00 SEK looks like a lot
13:40.40jeremiahIt isn't
13:40.42fralstalk abit crowded.. Most users ever online was 1,091, Today at 14:38. :D
13:40.46mgedmincrashanddie: yes, but I'm too busy now to explain them
13:40.50RST38hHmm...something weird is going on
13:40.54jeremiah6000 SEK is actually not bad at all.
13:41.07ShadowJKIt's SEK, move the decimal point leftward one digit
13:41.08Jaffajeremiah: Not for Sweden, anyway
13:41.11ShadowJKto start with
13:41.16GeneralAntillesJaffa, I tried to order mine yesterday.
13:41.18ShadowJKand then consider their 25% VAT
13:41.19Jaffawaves from Stockholm
13:41.27GeneralAntillesJaffa, need to talk to the credit card company, though, since they flagged the transaction.
13:41.30RST38hI am getting a flood of notifications from maemo-admin: looks like some anonymous entity is voting my apps down, multiple times
13:41.33jeremiahwaves from Gothenburg
13:41.38GeneralAntillesI REALLY don't care for doing this whole deal through Forum Nokia.
13:41.42jeremiahThe Front of Sweden
13:41.49RST38hThat is not Extras-Testing votes but Maemo5 Downloads votes
13:41.52mgedminjeremiah, hi!
13:41.54mgedminis there too
13:42.00jeremiahwha?
13:42.02Jaffajeremiah: I thought about waving as the plane HUD showed us flying overhead.
13:42.03mgedminuntil saturday
13:42.04jeremiahI had no idea!
13:42.08VDVsxJaffa, cool ;9
13:42.08jeremiahah
13:42.15jeremiahFSCONS?
13:42.18GeneralAntillesObnoxious, inappropriate process, NDA agreements, overseas seller, etc, etc.
13:42.23jeremiahOr are you at the GNU hackers meeting?
13:42.31mgedminis consulting
13:42.39mgedminis in theory pair-programming right now
13:42.43jeremiahOooooh. Slick. :)
13:42.51RST38hHmm...What the hell
13:42.56GeneralAntillesDid the N810 discount program come with warranties?
13:42.58kurtanwaves from somewhere på landet
13:42.59kurtan:P
13:43.02jeremiahmgedmin: Are you in Lindholmen some where?
13:43.10mgedminSannegarten
13:43.11RST38hCan we please log the IP address atleast?!?
13:43.13mgedminso pretty close
13:43.14Shapeshifterhttp://www.reuters.com/article/technologySector/idUSHEL00939820091110
13:43.23Shapeshifterso, apparently they should be shipping today
13:43.30jeremiahNu ska vi talar svenska eftersom alla e i sverige!
13:43.43Myrtti♥
13:43.48kurtan<3
13:43.50fralssvenska <3
13:43.54RST38hmoo Myrtti
13:43.57mgedminthe only word I didn't understand from that was "e"
13:44.09onioneller e finlandssvenskar :)
13:44.13jeremiahe is ar
13:44.16fralse is slang for är
13:44.20jeremiah^^
13:44.23mgedminslang! not fair!
13:44.25jeremiahwhat he said. :)
13:44.25RST38hMmm?
13:44.55jeremiahI had to use since I am use Synergy and it does something wierd to Unicode.
13:44.56Jaffagets by with "tack" and "another beer, please"
13:45.02jeremiahheh
13:45.02JaffaOh, and "hey"
13:45.10jeremiahhej!
13:45.18JaffaI don't have to write it ;)
13:45.22crashanddieOK, so i tried copying the scratchbox grep to the N900, didn't work so well
13:45.24frals:D
13:45.38mgedmingets by with "tack" and "hej" too, and /me doesn't drink beer
13:45.40ShadowJKonion, du också?
13:45.44fralsdepending on if you are in the suburbs of stockholm or not, that might be more swedish than the average "swede".. ;P
13:45.56jeremiahnejmen, ShadowJK du med?
13:46.00mgedmincrashanddie, most likely scratchbox grep is x86
13:46.09*** join/#maemo k-p_ (n=kkol@83.150.93.241)
13:46.16*** join/#maemo zimmerle (n=fnc@pasanda.collabora.co.uk)
13:46.18mgedminbut if you can find the armel findutils .deb and extract it ...
13:46.29*** join/#maemo penguinbait (n=mlewis@173-10-44-233-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
13:47.31*** join/#maemo Chewtoy_ (n=chewtoy@c80-216-126-156.bredband.comhem.se)
13:48.39ShadowJKjeremiah, ja om du säger att vi ska tala sv är det väl bäst att lyda ;)
13:48.42VDVsxlcuk, http://www.slashgear.com/maemo-contagious-content-concept-promises-geo-linked-collaborative-media-1063181/ ;)
13:48.47jeremiahheh
13:48.51jeremiahbra sagt!
13:48.56jeremiah:)
13:48.58*** join/#maemo saltsa_ (i=aunola@217.30.179.131)
13:49.13jeremiahhad no idea there were so many Swedish speakers here.
13:49.23zackyeller nordmenn
13:49.51jeremiahWow!
13:49.53jeremiah<PROTECTED>
13:49.54lcukVDVsx, best hope the gps doesnt show us as 2 streets over then
13:49.56Lupueller finsk som förstår lite svenska
13:49.56*** join/#maemo holydevil (n=holydevi@nat/yahoo/x-rjeonftvpingfrkh)
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13:50.05jeremiahTankt inte pa det
13:50.08Myrtti+1
13:50.10jeremiahw00t
13:50.10lcukin amsterdam, thats the difference between normality and who knows what
13:50.18Myrttijeremiah: fail
13:50.28lardman|homeanyone feel like writing a Hildon version of GTK ui manager?
13:50.29mgedminI studied danish for a year, that's why I kinda can read swedish
13:50.49jeremiahMyrtti: Yeah, not the same without the a,a,o :)
13:50.55VDVsxlcuk, lol
13:51.03jeremiahlardman|home: I'd love to.
13:51.13Myrttijeremiah: man kan aldrig glömma Finlandäre som kan svenska...
13:51.16ShadowJKmgedmin, to me the people in south sweden sound like danish anyway... </troll>
13:51.32*** join/#maemo pablo (n=pablo@189.2.128.130)
13:51.35mgedminheh, I can't really understand either language, when spoken
13:51.37jeremiahLike Linus Torvalds!
13:51.47mgedminto me spoken swedish sounds a bit like spoken japanese sometimes
13:51.48fralskurtan: just got reply from dustinhome, they wont get it before Nokia Sverige starts to sell it appearently :<
13:52.08kurtanfrals.. bah
13:52.22Myrttijeremiah: men han är ju finlandssvenskt, inte bara en finlandäre som kan prata svenska
13:52.33fralsbut someone the forum you posted got a reply from netonnet saying they are shipping this week (planned)
13:52.46kurtanhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-faCh8BUEts but s/Glenn Beck/Klas Ström
13:52.52kurtanfrals: saw that
13:52.58jeremiahMyrtti: reall?
13:53.05jeremiahI thought he was from Finland.
13:53.09ShadowJKhe is
13:53.33ShadowJKIt's like the french speakers in canada
13:53.37frals*orders from netonnet*
13:53.55jeremiahFrench Canadians are just freaks.
13:54.03Myrttijeremiah: there's a difference between Swedes who've moved here from Sweden, and people speaking Swedish that have been here since age eternal
13:54.10jeremiahaha
13:54.16Myrttis/here/to Finland/
13:54.21sarowerCan not i add widget in a GTK_BOX dynamicaly?
13:54.24MyrttiFAIL
13:54.35pabloAnybody know where the " qt-x11-maemo" ?? Finished? Moved?
13:54.37sarowerIt can be removed but adding is not working!
13:54.38fralsthat was a pretty bad s :D
13:54.42sarowerStrange!
13:54.42MyrttiI know
13:55.00jeremiah"s/" may have trouble with unicode
13:55.02MyrttiI'll go sacrifice a herring on the altar of Linux later
13:55.03lardman|homejeremiah: really.....?
13:55.15jeremiahlardman|home: Sorry, I was being sarcastic. :/
13:55.26lardman|homethought so, don't worry ;)
13:55.30jeremiahhides from lardman|home
13:56.12lardman|homecan only see weird glibisms spinning thro his head so no fear
13:56.36sarowerCan not i add widget in a GTK_BOX dynamicaly?
13:56.40sarowerIt can be removed but adding is not working!
13:56.47jeremiahheh
13:57.02ShadowJKAnd then there are the native-finnish-language finns who've learned swedish as a second language in school...
13:57.21pupnikdoes it fail with a message sarower ?
13:57.23*** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=rsalveti@200.184.118.130)
13:57.47sarowerpupnik: No message
13:58.20ShadowJKBut then it gets complicated to assign names when these minority-language people move across borders :-)
13:59.23*** join/#maemo fiferboy (n=fiferboy@Maemo/community/contributor/fiferboy)
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14:01.28sarowerIam using "gtk_container_add(GTK_CONTAINER(appdata->img_view_box), img);"
14:01.40sarowerand "gtk_box_pack_start(GTK_BOX(appdata->img_view_box), img, FALSE, FALSE, 0);"
14:01.42sarowertoo
14:02.02mgedminwhat is the type of img_view_box?
14:02.10sarowervbox
14:02.16mgedminhmm
14:02.25mgedmindid you make img visible?
14:02.30mgedminwidgets are hidden by default
14:02.35sarowerno
14:02.43sarowergtk_widget_show()?
14:02.46mgedminyes
14:03.01sarowerit also does not solves the prob
14:03.13mgedminusually you do (1) create buncha widgets (2) stuff them inside each other (3) call show_all(), but if you then do (4) add new widgets, you'll need to (5) show() them manually
14:03.21ccookeOh, impressive. From http://maemo.nokia.com/ , try to buy an n900 from the UK store :-)
14:03.35vesaanyone done location stuff with maemo5? the example lists methods such as location_gpsd_control_stop which don't seem to exist.
14:03.42mgedminwhat do they mean "it's not serious"???
14:03.54ccookemgedmin: indeed!
14:04.30ShadowJKlol
14:04.30lardman|homevesa: yeah
14:04.34mgedminheh, the swedish shop has a dropdown for selecting colour
14:04.37mgedminthe only option is 'black'
14:04.38lardman|homethat fn doesn't seem to work tho
14:04.45ShadowJKaw, no CP-321 on .fi nokia store
14:05.04*** join/#maemo Kusk (n=a@2904ds1-sdb.0.fullrate.dk)
14:05.15Jaffaccooke: indeed
14:05.16lardman|homeargh, the cursed slow maemo.org!
14:05.29JaffaYay, Hermes in Maemo Select
14:05.30RST38hdestroooy
14:05.37wazdmaemo.org is spamming me with e-mails :(
14:05.54RST38hlardman: Weird crap going on: some anonymous entity is voting my apps down, like dozens of time in a row
14:06.03lardman|homehmm
14:06.12sjgadsbyIt's odd that people keep reporting the Talk username "YuuDumFuks" as offensive, but no one complains about "urnass", member since 2007. Is it the camelcase?
14:06.14wazdRST38h: same for you btw? :)
14:06.15sarowermgedmin: Boss it is working now!
14:06.27VDVsxwazd, what did you got ?
14:06.29sarowermgedmin: Thank you
14:06.30RST38hwazd: Yep
14:06.36wazdRST38h: damn)
14:06.48lardman|homesjgadsby: shall I use my super powers to change his name to something less offensive? Like Iiimanidiot?
14:07.02Jaffasjgadsby: Yeah, the camel casing forces a particular pronounciation, wheres I'd pronounce "urnass" as "your-nass"
14:07.11wazdVDVsx: "ATI85 page has been commented by Jaffa. Obey!"
14:07.21VDVsxwazd, ahah
14:07.26lardman|homeoh come on maemo.org, I want to look at the liblocation apis
14:07.42wazdVDVsx: 10 same e-mails already
14:07.49crashanddieanyone got an idea on how to get a real grep on the n900?
14:07.59VDVsxwazd, I also got some for Supertux
14:08.32Jaffasjgadsby: However, I've got in trouble before for supposition as to other's actions (particularly with Texrat)
14:09.04GeneralAntillessociopath.
14:09.05lardman|homevesa: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/liblocation/LocationGPSDevice.html#location-gps-device-stop
14:09.14lardman|home?
14:09.16mgedmincrashanddie: what I would do was apt-get source -b findutils in scratchbox, then scp the grep binary over
14:09.43mgedmina nicer way to have grep for everyone would be to build a package that, I dunno, uses dpkg-divert maybe to move the busybox grep aside?
14:09.53vesalardman|home: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/liblocation/LocationGPSDControl.html#location-gpsd-control-stop
14:10.01mgedminwhich sounds like work
14:10.03vesalardman|home: but my problem seems to be in the linking phaze.
14:10.34vesalardman|home: ie. it's not even compiling yet =) i've got -llocation, is there some other lib that i should be including?
14:11.10zaheermJaffa, saw hermes on maemo select just now :)
14:11.49fiferboyAny guesses on when the final firmware will be available?
14:11.53lardman|homevesa: use pkg-config
14:12.05lardman|homevesa: what app are you making?
14:12.16SpeedEvilfiferboy: 4:37 in the morning of the 14th of november. (UTC).
14:12.32lardman|homehey fiferboy
14:12.35fiferboySpeedEvil: That is a precise guess
14:12.38mgedminSpeedEvil, is that 4:37:00 or 4:37:59?
14:12.39fiferboyhi lardman|home
14:12.43mgedminbe specific, man!
14:13.03lardman|homewe want pico-seconds!
14:13.13ShadowJKwonderful... the "create account" button on nokia.fi store is not clickable
14:13.21*** part/#maemo chris231989 (n=chris231@adsl-75-42-236-96.dsl.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net)
14:13.27vesalardman|home: not so much an app as a runtime kind of thing.
14:13.59SpeedEvilfiferboy: 4:37:15.88
14:14.09SpeedEvilhttp://www.virtualhud.com/virtualhud/VirtualHUD.aspx Now - that is _clever_
14:14.13*** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=rsalveti@200.184.118.130)
14:14.13fiferboySpeedEvil: Thanks for the clarification
14:14.18SpeedEvil(though not directly related to n900
14:14.22*** join/#maemo BBNS (n=chatzill@184.219.171.66.subscriber.vzavenue.net)
14:14.24vesalardman|home: just getting to grips with maemo development implementing the location -wrappers for our umm. 'base'
14:14.34BBNSyeah ... finally shipped!
14:14.55GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, nice.
14:15.38*** join/#maemo chenca (n=chenca@200.184.118.130)
14:15.49vesalardman|home: http://origoide.com/ is the actual end product
14:16.13lardman|homeand IDE?
14:16.18lardman|homes/and/an
14:16.46lardman|homeah, a lang
14:17.14BBNS1,110 online 0_0 see tmo will break even higher record today.
14:17.56*** join/#maemo blade_runner (n=arezende@200.184.118.130)
14:18.46lardman|homewhat's the best bet for geocoding? Google or GeoNames?
14:19.01*** part/#maemo rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@gtsgw.ttc.cz)
14:19.22RST38hwazd: Somebody is really busy voting all the apps down
14:19.24SpeedEvil'best' is a _horribly_ complex thing.
14:19.25*** join/#maemo cjdavis (n=cjdavis@cpe-71-67-99-208.cinci.res.rr.com)
14:19.37lardman|homeeasiest to implement in C ;)
14:19.41RST38hwazd: You are only receiving ati85 notifications but I am getting them all
14:19.41SpeedEvilThere can be nasty license provisions for example
14:19.43lardman|homeor rather use
14:20.08SpeedEvilI would say openstreetmaps namefinder, but it's currently broken AIUI
14:20.12*** join/#maemo danilocesar (n=danilo@200.184.118.130)
14:20.29lardman|homeoh
14:20.44lardman|homeshame I can't just have raw lat/lon data from a contact
14:21.24lardman|homeah well GeoNames looks simple enough to use
14:21.28*** join/#maemo Xisdibik (n=Xisdibik@c-24-5-197-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
14:21.28lardman|homethat will have to do for the time being
14:21.40VDVsxRST38h, yup, seems so
14:23.00cehtehdoes the n900 work without battery when you plug the charger in?
14:23.43mgedminn8x0 didn't
14:23.57*** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=Faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12)
14:24.13Stskeepslo qwerty12
14:24.22qwerty12Hiya, stemosco
14:24.25qwerty12*Stskeeps
14:24.34lardman|homehmm, I seem to remember being told at the summit that Nokia would provide a (reverse)geocoding api for us to use
14:24.44lardman|homeam I remembering properly?
14:24.48*** join/#maemo rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@gtsgw.ttc.cz)
14:24.57RST38hVDVwsx: Yours too???
14:25.26crashanddiemgedmin: (from scratchbox) scp /targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/bin/grep root@whatever:/usr/bin seems to have done the trick
14:25.37VDVsxRST38h, yup
14:26.05VDVsxRST38h, from anonymous :P
14:26.55*** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=rsalveti@200.184.118.130)
14:29.03mgedmincrashanddie: cool
14:29.16mgedminI assumed grep might be redirected to a native grep
14:29.16*** join/#maemo samppa (n=samppa@85.23.21.111)
14:29.24mgedminnative as in x86
14:29.58ShadowJKcehteh, most likely not
14:30.04RST38hVDVsx: We have got a vigilante! Somebody has finally got insane while waiting for his N900!
14:30.24VDVsxRST38h, ehhehe
14:30.46RST38hcan't quite get over the feeling of accomplishment at driving another mindless human vermin insane
14:30.52RST38hcackles evilly
14:31.21ShadowJKare they voting all apps down, or just the maemo5 apps down?
14:32.44VDVsxShadowJK, only maemo5 so far for me
14:33.16Stskeepsscary @ 1130 users on tal
14:33.17Stskeepsk
14:33.21ShadowJKoh that's a bit funny then :)
14:33.30VDVsx----> Q&A and Extras-testing discussion @ #maemo-meeting - Starting in a few minutes
14:33.33lardman|homehas anyone got pocketsphinx working?
14:33.45*** join/#maemo saltsa_ (i=aunola@217.30.179.131)
14:34.03fralsheads over to #maemo-meeting for quality stalking
14:35.03lardman|homebbiab
14:35.04RST38hVDVsx: The Tentacled One is having a feast tonight!
14:35.13*** join/#maemo jnettlet (n=jnettlet@216-19-186-197.dyn.novuscom.net)
14:37.30FlandryFatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/midcom/core/privilege.php on line 457
14:37.52FlandryI so love trying to use m.o :D
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14:38.02fralswell atleast talk is still fast ;)
14:38.06Flandryyeah
14:38.10Flandryfunny how that works
14:38.30Flandryanything to actually be productive takes forever
14:38.38Flandrywe can chat it up all day unhindered
14:38.45frals:D
14:38.50wazdRST38h: jeez :S
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14:41.59FlandryFrom the looks of things the testing process needs a bit of streamlining
14:42.26Flandry(might as well throw that old chestnut in there while i'm saying redundant things)
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14:56.13Messijuego de boxeo online http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html
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14:57.53lardmanre
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15:02.18lardmanI see geoclue offers geocoding
15:02.39lardmanbut we use liblocation, so back to the original question - will Nokia offer an api (which is what was mentioned at the summit)?
15:03.36vesathe camera gives tags when you have geotagging on (worked atleast in london)
15:04.03vesaso i guess it's more of 'when will they release the api'
15:04.08lardmanyeah
15:04.16lardmanso it tags the photos "London"?
15:04.36vesayeah, i'm just trying to find something from the device to see what it's got
15:04.49lardmanmight have to do some decompilation
15:04.56lardmanbut first I'll email the list and ask
15:05.55vesayeah, just tags 'finland, helsinki' if i take one now
15:06.34Jaffalardman: liblocation and libaddress
15:07.54*** join/#maemo hannesw__ (n=hannes@91-114-228-255.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
15:07.56vesalibaddress doesn't seem to be in the docs
15:08.05sarowerg_signal_connect (G_OBJECT (appdata.normal_image_box), "button_press_event", G_CALLBACK (add_camera_screen), &appdata);
15:08.28sarowergetting appdata null here
15:08.29saroweradd_camera_screen(GtkWidget *widget, gpointer data)
15:08.46sarowerany help!
15:09.04sarowerdata is null here
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15:10.26lardmanJaffa: thanks
15:10.41Jaffavesa: probably not!
15:10.54lardmanare there any headers for it?
15:11.10lardmanis at work on a Windows box so can't look
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15:12.52*** join/#maemo Ceron^ (n=ceron@a91-154-113-6.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
15:12.59Ceron^hi, i heard n900 is shipping
15:13.00Ceron^is it true? :P
15:13.04aquatixyep
15:13.15Ceron^did i hafto preorder 10 months ago to get it?
15:13.16Ceron^now
15:14.46SuurorcaI suppose "shipping" means it'll take a few days until the distributos get it and a few days still until stores have it in stock :/
15:15.26lardmanhow do I get into here? http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/nokia-binaries/
15:15.38*** join/#maemo saltsa_ (i=aunola@217.30.179.131)
15:15.42lardmanI need some strange token iirc
15:16.07Stskeepstablets-dev.nokia.com/eula
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15:16.30lardmanthanks
15:16.38qwerty12lardman: If you wish to browse it: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=338238&postcount=14
15:16.50lardmanah, ideal
15:18.08GiantTalkingCowSo according to Reuters, the N900 has started shipping. About time, I say.
15:19.02lardmanhmm, no libaddress in there
15:21.06ccookeidly considers porting mutt to the n900
15:21.14ccookewith notifications :-)
15:21.17RST38hccooke: Alpine!!!
15:21.22ccookethat shouldn't be at all difficult
15:21.49ccookeRST38h: heh. I used pine for *years*. It took me ages to switch to mutt. But I think mutt's a better client overall... sorry :-)
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15:22.08mgedminmutt rules
15:22.39frals(is this where i promote outlook?)
15:23.01mgedminfrals, if you want to get a lot of free rotten fruit, yes
15:23.11lardmanprepares the pots of burning oil
15:23.29frals:D
15:23.31qwerty12*cough*
15:23.39qwerty12lardman: I remember your client of choice
15:23.49lardmanwell yeah, I'm stuck with it tho
15:23.58wazdwho did transmission for fremantle btw?
15:24.09qwerty12puts his hand up
15:24.22wazdqwerty12: any wish to make it look cool? :)
15:24.37RST38hyess yess
15:24.47mgedminfeels cheated
15:24.49RST38hAlthough Transmission already looks pretty good
15:25.05mgedminin amsterdam they demoed transmission plugin for canola 2
15:25.06kalikianatolisarower, where is appdate allocated/ declared?
15:25.11mgedminI installed canola 2 and it isn't there!
15:25.14mgedminnot released yet probably
15:25.18qwerty12wazd: Sure. :) Only change I have made to the main window recently is to kill off its Filterbar and shove the filters in the menu and the searchbar was added to the toolbar :)
15:25.31kalikianatolisarower,  you can't pass it if it's a struct* appdata inside a function
15:25.48kalikianatoliif it's a struct appdata, even
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15:30.06lardmanwishes for an online tool to search the repos
15:30.15RST38hlardman: Packrat
15:30.33RST38hlardman: http://ageofikon.info/packrat/
15:30.51lardmannice, thanks :)
15:31.13hrwhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxiOKKF721U
15:31.37wazdqwerty12: I'll check it in SDK and see what can be improved :)
15:31.54qwerty12wazd: Thank you :)
15:33.12lardmanhmm, I could have sworn flite was available for Diablo, anyone know where it came from?
15:33.33qwerty12It wasn't. People used the Chinook version
15:33.39lardmanoh ok
15:33.50RST38hchinook, diablo, who cares? same thing
15:34.01qwerty12Chinook version was ported by gnuite who uploaded it to Extras in the times when there was no autobuilder and people were free to upload stuff without source
15:34.12qwerty12(in free, that is)
15:34.16lardmanfeeling the love for speaking and listening phones after seeing Android in action
15:34.17hrwYES!
15:34.23hrw<PROTECTED>
15:34.25hrwAdd to Cart
15:34.34lardman:)
15:34.47ccookeoooh, that's a nice deal
15:35.23mgedmincool, I thought it was supposed to be 300 EUR
15:35.23hrwnow time to read nda ;(
15:35.35lardmanhrw: you still involved with OE?
15:35.40hrwmgedmin: 50% of price (about 300eur dependly on market)
15:35.48hrwlardman: I live from OE and Poky
15:35.54penguinbaityou have to sign NDA to order dev unit?
15:35.58*** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@stgt-5d84b9ff.pool.mediaWays.net)
15:36.10lardmanhrw: your links at the top of this page are about half broken: http://openembedded.org/
15:36.14GiantTalkingCowAnd what's the 'Discounted Devices Program'? Dev discount?
15:36.31mgedminyes
15:36.38qwerty12has still yet to order his DDP N900...
15:36.40penguinbaityou can get at dell for under 500US and its 371US
15:37.04penguinbaitits not a 50% saving in the US
15:37.09mgedminhey, _I_ still don't see N900 in the forum nokia eStore
15:37.31qwerty12mgedmin: I had to do some weird shit like going to Pro first, and then going back to the eStore
15:37.48lardmanhrw: where do I find the OE metadata tree? Is there still a way of browsing it from online?
15:37.50mgedminthey make us jump through hoops?
15:37.51Stskeepshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxiOKKF721U <- nokia marketing scares me
15:37.53*** join/#maemo caotic (n=caotic@189.157.133.129)
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15:38.11mgedminwonders if he should maybe log in
15:38.20mgedminthat worked!
15:38.22mgedminduh
15:38.39hrwlardman: http://cgit.openembedded.org/
15:38.53lardmanthanks
15:38.54hrwmgedmin: logged in?
15:39.01mgedminyes
15:39.05Ceron^http://photofile.ru/photo/fishki_net/3667506/81977817.jpg -> http://kuvat2.iltasanomat.fi/iltasanomat/iDoc/1757489-kukateki.jpg
15:39.11Ceron^finnish metro water flood
15:40.30GiantTalkingCowStskeeps: The marketing for the new Motorola Droid here in the US is even scarier. It's like an old Sega commercial on meth.
15:40.50RST38hBesides, Droid shows the Eye of Sauron on bootup
15:41.02Stskeepsthis would have been great on halloween
15:41.34penguinbaitI see what you mean Stskeeps, wtf
15:42.12GiantTalkingCowI've been on the fence in regards to a smartphone for a while, but seeing as the n900 is being sold unlocked in quite a few places, I'll likely end up going for it. The data and voice plans that most of the normal smartphones come with are insanely overpriced.
15:42.14*** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net)
15:42.55Suurorcathey could have made that ad just sooo much better :/
15:44.59penguinbaitwill the ddp program still end at end of year, or was it also extended?
15:45.15Ceron^hrw: where to get it for 250 euro?
15:45.17Ceron^!!!
15:45.34penguinbaitbyt the way, I took some medication earlier, am I the only one seeing the Giant Talking Cow?
15:45.52Stskeepsdepends, what kind of meds?
15:45.53Stskeeps:P
15:46.00Ceron^hrw: tell me please
15:46.01hrwCeron^: n900 discount program offered for that price for me
15:46.05javispedropenguinbait: you too? )
15:46.14Ceron^hrw: what discount program?
15:46.14mgedminCeron^, go back in time, accumulate lots of maemo.org karma, get invited to the developer discount program
15:46.19hrwCeron^: if you did not know about program then you dont get
15:46.21Ceron^isee
15:46.22GiantTalkingCowA talking cow? Nonsense, there's no such thing!
15:46.23mgedminthe invitations went out a couple of months ago
15:46.27mgedminor maybe one month
15:46.28Ceron^i call that bullshit
15:46.33Ceron^:l
15:47.12Ceron^580euro vs 250 euro...
15:47.33Ceron^seriously i dont like this marketing at all..
15:47.41hrwmgedmin: less then month even
15:47.55hrwCeron^: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32951
15:48.31Ceron^yeh so if i posted alot at memo.org i would have got discount codes :\
15:48.35Ceron^maemo
15:48.53lardmanquite possibly
15:48.56GiantTalkingCowYou guys in Europe get screwed over on all sorts of high-tech gadget pricing, and not just by American firms, either. :I
15:49.13Ceron^true
15:49.23Ceron^anyone know the cheapest europian store
15:49.26Ceron^to buy n900 from
15:49.27lardmanbuy it with a contract, you'll need one anyway
15:49.29javispedroCeron^: well yeah, if you posted a few posts in tmo, uplaoded 3 apps to mo/d, filled some bugs in bugzilla and mailed some nonsense to the -users mailing list you'd have a discount.
15:49.38Ceron^lardman: i dont i got company simcard
15:49.51wirelessdreamerI've been having trouble getting scratchbox to connect to the net when I change netconnections, the host can ping, but scratchbox can't resolv anything
15:50.03wirelessdreameri've checked resolv.conf and route
15:50.05GiantTalkingCowlardman: Not really. It's being sold unlocked here in the US, so all you need is a SIM card to put in, and you're fine.
15:50.05lardmanwell invest the money you'd otherwise spend on a contract then ;)
15:50.06wirelessdreamerany other ideas?
15:50.28Ceron^lardman: anyway, where to find the cheapest price
15:50.33lardmanGiantTalkingCow: yeah, but you need a contract to use it, so may as well get a discounted phone + contract
15:50.34Ceron^one would think you guys would know :)
15:51.01Ceron^this channel is full of n900 hungry people. There should be some good links
15:51.12lardmanno idea
15:51.23javispedroThis channel is full of n900 owners instead ... :P
15:51.23lardmanthere were a few threads on TMO iirc
15:51.26GiantTalkingCowlardman: I'd rather pay the full price and use my existing SIM. I'm not fond of contracts.
15:51.46RST38hjavispedro: loan recipients rather
15:51.49lardmanGiantTalkingCow: just have to work out the costs and go the cheapest way
15:51.55javispedroRST38h: touché.
15:52.30wazdqwerty12: well, plenty of work to do in fact :D
15:52.43qwerty12whistles
15:53.03trudid you guys see the n900 ad?
15:53.31trunot sure if I am going to be scared or awed.
15:53.50Stskeepstru: i think it's meant to make the iphone marketing guys piss their pants..
15:53.50Stskeeps:P
15:54.04wirelessdreamertru: have a link?
15:54.12wazdhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxiOKKF721U
15:54.15truhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/11/10/nokia-n900-ad-suggests-a-history-of-mental-illness/
15:54.35*** join/#maemo treitter2 (n=treitter@c-98-210-72-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
15:54.39javispedrohttp://maemo.nokia.com/ friggin penguins with friggin lasers!!!
15:56.08mikhaswow
15:56.14lardmanhmm, not available in the Uk store anyway
15:56.15mikhasgreat picture
15:56.51mikhasdo the penguins attack maemo?
15:56.54wazdwowjezuschrist!
15:57.00wazdneeds new pants
15:57.02mgedminat work, wants to watch the ad, but must resist
15:57.03mikhasor the product launch?
15:57.27javispedromikhas: lol
15:57.46javispedroo
15:57.47javispedrok
15:57.48javispedrowtf
15:57.55javispedrois with this ad at 2:00
15:58.38javispedro"I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm not sleeping in the same room as my N900 any more. It's going to be sleeping inside a safe. In concrete." lol
15:59.25RST38hjavispedro: how about adding n900 to SCP? ;)
15:59.28*** join/#maemo saltsa_ (i=aunola@217.30.179.131)
15:59.30yuizyjavispedro: ;D
16:00.04*** join/#maemo GiantTalkingCow (n=gianttal@adsl-76-242-26-4.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
16:00.33javispedrodid they hire Family Guy guionists for the ad or what
16:00.39mgedminhey, openssh autostarts just fine!
16:00.43mgedminwhy doesn't avahi-daemon???
16:00.53mgedmindash in init.d script name?
16:00.59VDVsxjavispedro, nice, n900 + free handset : http://tienda.nokia.es/nokia-es/product.aspx?sku=10195587&culture=es-ES
16:01.02Stskeepsevent.d?
16:01.02Stskeeps:P
16:01.26zaheermis there an issue with avahi and ip address/network changing etc.
16:01.31javispedroStskeeps: oh, they're not using in sysvinit compat mode? score an extra point for maemo
16:01.34*** join/#maemo dirk2 (n=dirk@p5B040C01.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
16:02.09mgedminVDVsx, ITYM headset
16:02.09wazdcool CG btw
16:02.25wazdfor youtube quality at least
16:02.30mgedminah, openssh-server ships an event.d file
16:02.37javispedroVDVsx: saw it (btw they still say 1 GiB _RAM_). Even though if I get the DDP one...
16:02.39mgedminrubs hands excitedly
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16:03.08*** join/#maemo chris231989 (n=chris231@adsl-75-42-236-96.dsl.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net)
16:03.46RST38hSomebody kill the anonymous guy!
16:03.50RST38hHe is going nuts!
16:04.01GiantTalkingCow?
16:04.06*** join/#maemo nslu2-log (n=nslu2-lo@limax.nslu2-linux.org)
16:04.28dmj726So apparently they make n900s out of crazy people.
16:04.33dmj726n900 is people
16:04.50Stskeepsdmj726++
16:04.53VDVsxmgedmin, yes, lol
16:05.04javispedro:)
16:06.06javispedroinsane people infected with some random spacetime distorting virus
16:06.46RST38hjavis: It is the Tentacled One and his diet of human brains
16:07.08javispedrook, I want more perverted ads like this one
16:07.12javispedrothe next one we need more gore
16:07.13RST38hThe victims are still alive, but their skulls are empty, funny, isn't it? =)
16:07.13dmj726It's known as penguinitis and it has an unfortunate tendency to infect open source programmers.
16:07.27javispedroI hope it features the Umbrella corp logo
16:07.28Stskeepsand cause penguins to shoot lasers
16:08.17javispedrolol
16:08.21javispedro"Nokia drives you mad"
16:08.23javispedro:)
16:08.36Stskeepspenguinbait: council member attention needed in #maemo-meeting
16:09.06Suurorcah, nice Idea. I just might have to create an umbrella bootvideo for it ;D
16:09.50*** join/#maemo ferdna (n=ferdna@cpe-24-92-112-49.elp.res.rr.com)
16:10.39Ceron^The Nokia N900 will be available in retail stores in November with an estimated retail price of EUR 500, excluding sales taxes and subsidies.
16:10.49Ceron^100 euro taxes :(
16:11.19mikhas-500 euro subsidies, though
16:11.40mikhasthat's what I expect, at least =)
16:12.08vesalardman: location problem fixed. missing extern "C" around the location includes
16:12.11javispedro"I guess it had to happen eventually. Some Emos have found work in the advertising trades, and here's their idea of branding and product promotion. God help us when they get elected to public office..." today I find Engadget's comments quite entertaining... maybe because of meds :)
16:12.28vesai hear this might be what you might call a 'shortcoming' of the headers
16:12.38vesawe use a c++ compiler and not c...
16:12.44dmj726I suspect that this ad may only appeal to people who already like the n900
16:12.59lardmanvesa: cool
16:13.32mgedminvesa, 'shortcoming' is arguable; the API is for C, not for C++
16:13.57vesawell that's true, but it's quite a simple fix and so far everything else works with c++
16:14.01mgedminalthough I do see your point of view
16:14.50nomismhm, I suspect that I just have to live with a QWERTY-keyboard when using the discounted devices program, right?
16:15.04Stskeepsput a label on it and select other hw keyboard type?
16:15.05Stskeeps:P
16:15.26*** join/#maemo treitter2 (n=treitter@c-98-210-72-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
16:15.57javispedroor try to create a bastardized layout where at least the symbols match
16:16.01javispedrowhich is what I plan to do
16:16.11nomismhm.
16:16.19javispedro(match with what's printed on the device, I mean)
16:16.36*** join/#maemo Milo- (i=milo@mouhez.net)
16:22.07wazdqwerty12: ok, I've downloaded new Transmission look from the Astral DB, now I need to draw it :)
16:22.40qwerty12Cool, thank you :)
16:23.39VDVsxJaffa, humm, your pymaemo test is interesting, did you tried to do any performance tests ?
16:23.51JaffaVDVsx: Not properly, no
16:24.02JaffaJust gut feel
16:24.38VDVsxruntime performance tests should be easy to do ;)
16:24.57lizardoJaffa: I'll answer you there on the list, for the records :)
16:26.29*** join/#maemo Andy80 (n=andy80@84.123.86.203.dyn.user.ono.com)
16:26.39*** part/#maemo strank (n=rank@85-127-207-244.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at)
16:27.20crashanddieBest algorithm to test N900 performance: every 10ns, launch a new thread that generates 50 md5sums of microtime * Integer.parse(substr(/dev/random, 0, 10)) (preferably in Java)
16:27.21mgedminJaffa, did you test that bind-mounting init script on the device?
16:27.32mgedminbecause I'm baffled now: do init.d scripts work or not?
16:27.39Andy80hi all
16:27.43mgedminthey kinda should, but for avahi-daemon they don't
16:28.50Jaffamgedmin: Yes, I did test it on device.
16:28.52wazdwooo, modern warfare 2 is out!
16:29.09Jaffamgedmin: rc2.d?
16:29.11mgedminbtw there's some kind of syntax for doing bind mounts straight from /etc/fstab, but I never remember it
16:29.37Jaffamgedmin: Oh, cool
16:29.39javispedro/device /mount/point auto bind
16:29.46mgedmin$ grep -v ^# /etc/rc2.d/S50avahi-daemon |head
16:29.50mgedmintouch /tmp/avahi-daemon-init.d-script-was-run
16:29.55*** join/#maemo ali1234 (n=al@robotfuzz.co.uk)
16:29.55mgedminafter boot I look in /tmp, and nothing
16:29.56javispedroeven though I don't know if busybox's mount -a accepts it
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16:33.18Jaffamgedmin: I'll look closer this evening. Perhaps I've played tricks on myself
16:33.50mgedminI'm pretty sure _I_ missed something, but so far I haven't figured out what
16:34.01mgedminsome run-rc.d variants may be unhappy with dashes in filenames maybe
16:34.12JaffaMebbe.
16:34.18JaffaOr something upstarty needs to be prodded?
16:34.23mgedminS20osso-applet-display disagrees
16:34.40mgedminit's possible the whole /etc/init.d is a big fat decoy
16:35.02Jaffagoes to get Stockholm's #1 bus from Stora Essingen to, err, best check.
16:35.04mgedminbut /etc/event.d/rcS says "This task runs the old sysv-rc startup scripts."
16:36.09mgedminha!
16:36.23mgedmin/etc/init.d/rcS ignores .d and does everything manually
16:38.57Jaffamgedmin: Doh!
16:39.07Jaffamgedmin: So, we need to put something in /etc/event.d
16:39.45mgedminwho maintains avahi-daemon?
16:40.25mgedminI don't think Utopia Maintenance Team <pkg-utopia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org> will be happy to get maemo-specific queries
16:41.03mgedminand thanks to docpurge I can't look at /usr/share/doc/avahi-daemon/changelog.Debian.gz
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16:41.44qwerty12mgedmin: The version in extras-devel was uploaded by "jhs_s", if that is any help...
16:41.49greenflywow. I didn't realize maemo5 used so much upstart
16:42.16mgedmin/etc/event.d/sshd is a nice role model
16:42.48mgedminthe bits with mkdir /var/ ought to be included in the screen package
16:42.55greenflybut yeah, I don't see the old backwards-compatible sysV upstart scripts in /etc/event.d
16:43.22greenflyother than rcS, which just starts one shell script
16:43.42greenflyso it looks like everyone will have to use upstart
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16:45.52greenflywhich honestly, this is a good platform to make that shift
16:46.31mgedmincutting edge tech
16:46.37javispedrowell.
16:46.44mgedminwell, not really
16:46.46javispedrodoes ssh only start up when net is up or something like that?
16:46.48mgedminupstart 0.3.8-56+0m5
16:46.51mgedminancient!
16:47.02mgedminkarmic comes with 0.6.3-10
16:47.31greenflyheh, yeah upstart came into play with Ubuntu 6.10 IIRC but most people didn't realize it was there
16:47.38mgedmin/etc/event.d is obsolete and no longer supported, iirc, upstart now uses a different config syntax and files in /etc/init/*.conf
16:47.53greenflysince all it really managed (besides PID 1) was ttys, and running sysinit for different runlevels
16:48.52greenflyto make it more confusing there's the /etc/event.replace.d
16:50.30mgedminproblem is: now I can't copy and paste upstart config files from my laptop to my n900
16:50.48greenflyahh, you have to backport them to the old syntax?
16:50.55mgedminyes
16:50.58greenfly:/
16:50.59mgedminand there are semantic differences too
16:51.17mgedmine.g. on the n900 /etc/event.d/dbus has "exec /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system --nofork"
16:51.28mgedminon karmic /etc/init/dbus.conf has "exec dbus-daemon --system --fork"
16:51.42mgedminah, there's also "expect fork"
16:51.51mgedmininteresting
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17:10.14javispedroponders the DDP
17:10.34mgedminwonders about the taxes and duties
17:11.39javispedrothat too.
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17:13.30javispedrodo they ship from finland?
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17:18.07mgedminjust reproduced 6004
17:18.15javispedrobug #6004
17:18.16povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6004 N900 sometimes ignores USB data cable
17:18.20mgedminwhen they ship and how long they travel is another very good question
17:18.39mgedminwould be fun if the n900 arrived home before I did
17:18.51javispedrothe site says "3 bussines days"
17:19.11javispedroer.. don't mind the typo
17:19.14mgedminthe forum nokia estore?
17:19.19javispedromgedmin: yep
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17:19.30mgedminI didn't notice
17:19.37javispedrolooks
17:19.57javispedro"Usually ships within three business days."
17:20.58mgedmin"usually" is a good word
17:21.10mgedminhow often do they ship just-released n900s?
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17:21.35javispedroI'd assume it's copied and pasted from all the other "device developers" items we don't have access to.
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17:24.35mgedminI assume it means "we will try to ship within three days, but if we can't, don't go back complaining that we promised"
17:24.40wazdjavispedro: hah, they can't even ship me an e-mail so I wouldn't expect anything :D
17:25.04mgedminalways found the phrase "shiping an email" very funny
17:25.28mgedminmental picture always goes to an ocean liner carrying a cardboard box with a printout of an email inside
17:26.00greenflyyou need an ocean liner because the rest of it is full of other cardboard boxes full of printouts of spam :)
17:26.06lcuki always see a little dinghy with an overworked grunt rowing slowly across the pacific
17:26.13javispedromgedmin: well, the alternative to putting "usually" is adding a load of "standard disclaimers"
17:26.31mgedminwhat do they use for shipping, anyway?
17:26.32javispedrowazd: yeah, that scaries me.
17:26.33mgedminthe post office?
17:26.35javispedromgedmin: DHL
17:28.55javispedrobtw
17:29.03javispedroSince I'm not a company
17:29.13javispedrohow I am supposed to "agree" to the NDA
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17:34.22mgedminwithout reading it, probably
17:34.34javispedroactually mentioning it is forbidden too.
17:34.42mgedminmentioning what?
17:35.13ShadowJKlol
17:35.48javispedroactually, the entire NDA is rather moot for mortals like me.
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17:54.21LurkerXXX_The N900 is finally shipping. :)
17:55.37GiantTalkingCowYep, heard about it a few hours ago. I figure I'll try one out sometime this week, then decide whether or not to get it. I'm mostly concerned about the keyboard and its performance.
17:56.13mgedmincompared to a laptop, both suck
17:56.17mgedmincompared to a n810, both are stellar
17:57.20cosmo_it can't say it's better than n810's.. feels pretty same
17:57.30mgedminsudo dpkg -i procps*.deb -- good idea, bad idea, Very Bad Idea ?
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17:57.49mgedminwish I could test apt-get, but I'm too lazy to look up how to set up an apt repo on the filesystem
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17:58.11mgedminuploading procps to extras-devel blindly: good idea, bad idea, treasonous shoot-on-sight idea?
17:58.44mgedminworst thing that could happen: somebody installs it and removes busybox plus a few hundred meg of absolutely essential system packages, device is bricked
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17:59.43zaheermmgedmin, flasher will fix it :)
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17:59.55mgedminas soon as the official image appears somewhere
17:59.58mgedminanybody seen an image?
18:00.00mgedminyeah, me neither
18:00.09zaheermmaybe it is on some torrent by now ;)
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18:00.39mgedminbugs.maemo.org doesn't have a version for it either
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18:00.51mgedminmaybe they're shipping OS-less N900s
18:00.56toggles_whmm.. amazon claim they can deliver it tomorrow..
18:01.14LurkerXXX_somehow I doubt that
18:01.27toggles_wyeah, me too
18:01.27ShadowJKprocps on N8x0 makes things go kaboom iirc
18:01.40LurkerXXX_but they should be able to deliver within a couple more days.
18:01.56javispedromgedmin: don't upload logic bombs to extras-devel please
18:01.57toggles_wnewegg says 14/11 so yeah, should be soon
18:02.26javispedroit still makes me sad when people say "extras-devel is dangerous because there's newer versions of libs that won't go into -stable"
18:02.30mgedminjavispedro, I'm currently trying to determine whether it's a logic bomb or not
18:02.36mgedminwithout exploding my n900
18:02.40mgedminin the process
18:02.45mgedminhey, I've got a repo at mg.pov.lt/770!
18:02.54mgedminfor precisely this kind of private minefield reasons
18:03.19javispedrocan't imagine which qa testing plan needs to upload the candidate bombs to a online repo
18:03.50ShadowJKmgedmin, I think you need to compile it so that the utilities get an extra prefix, like for example "real", so that top becomes realtop, etc, and then the package dependencies, provides and conflicts need to be fixed up...
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18:07.31mgedminaaugh
18:07.38mgedminhow do I open a URL from the command line?
18:07.42mgedminmagic dbus message?
18:07.56mgedminoh, browser --url
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18:11.40mikkov__Nokia Software Updater has a new firmware
18:12.26mgedminhmmm
18:12.30mgedminis that the windows thing?
18:12.32Stskeepsmore interestingly, does tablets-dev.nokia.com? :P
18:12.53mgedminStskeeps, xchat doesn't make urls clickable when you omit the http://
18:13.16mikkov__it's the windows thing, yes
18:13.18qwerty12mikkov_: Thanks for the heads up. Do you know if it tries to flash the eMMC?
18:13.42mikkov__file size is 161.4 MB
18:13.50mikkov__installing it now, let's see
18:14.18mikkov__didn't read all warnings :)
18:14.21mgedminriots
18:14.24zaheermmikkov_, :)
18:14.32zaheermmikkov_, you are our guinea pig
18:14.39mgedminoh, hey, any ideas whether the new firmware will be available via SSU?
18:14.40qwerty12Doesn't sound like it: The RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.40-3.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin file I have is 235MB
18:15.14mgedminpoor compression?
18:15.26qwerty12RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-10_PR_LEGACY_TRUE_ARM.bin is 161MB
18:15.36mikkov__version is 1.2009.41.11
18:15.37qwerty12So I guess the eMMC doesn't get flashed, which is good news for me :)
18:15.37mgedminthat's the amsterdam one, right?
18:15.40mikkov__version is 1.2009.42.11
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18:15.53zaheermmikkov_, interesting...
18:16.03mgedminmikkov_, you anticipated my question
18:16.23mgedminwoohoo, nice!
18:16.25mgedminmaybe
18:16.26mikkov__magic :)
18:16.28mgedminyes, nice!
18:16.43mgedminsudo apt-get install procps: The following packages will be REMOVED: busybox-symlinks-procps
18:16.48timeless_mbpmgedmin: the eMMC is regional
18:16.50mgedminthey made a package with nothing but symlinks
18:16.52timeless_mbpthe US image is 1.6G iirc
18:16.53qwerty12mikkov_: I'll update my device tommorow if your device doesn't get killed today :p
18:17.02mikkov__:P
18:17.09timeless_mbpother images are considerably smaller
18:17.09qwerty12*tomorrow
18:17.29timeless_mbpbtw, have people plugged their n900's into normal computers?
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18:17.46mgedminokay, the BAD thing about my procps is that it only ships kill and ps
18:17.54javispedro"normal computers" as in blessed by gates?
18:17.55mgedminwhere's uptime, pkill, watch, free, pgrep, top?
18:18.09timeless_mbpjavispedro: OS X, Windows, or Ubuntu 9.04+
18:18.14mgedminah, in /usr/bin, where they belong
18:18.17mgedminfalse alarm
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18:18.35mgedmintimeless_mbp, ubuntu 9.10
18:18.42greenflytimeless_mbp: I've connected it to an ubuntu 9.10 machine
18:18.44mgedminany specific questions?
18:18.49mgedminI've got it plugged it right now
18:18.51timeless_mbpwhat do you see on the desktop and do you like it?
18:19.02mgedminhm, I asked it not to mount
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18:19.07timeless_mbp...
18:19.11greenflyif you tell it mass storage mode the photo manager will fire up
18:19.16mgedminI remember seeing a cellphone icon
18:19.22timeless_mbpdid you like it?
18:19.34mgedminit was a very cellphone'y cellphone
18:19.38greenflyIn my case I didn't want to upload any photos
18:19.48greenflyso it sorta gets in the way, but I can always turn that off
18:19.53mgedminI'd rather have an icon that looks like a n900
18:19.56timeless_mbpthe photo manager bit isn't my fault
18:19.59mgedminwhich ought to be possible
18:20.03timeless_mbpwait, what!?
18:20.05greenflyyeah, understood
18:20.06timeless_mbpscreenshot please
18:20.10timeless_mbpbecause well...
18:20.14timeless_mbpscreenshot first, story later
18:20.21mgedminscreenshot of what?
18:20.35timeless_mbpthe picture you see on the desktop
18:20.40timeless_mbpgrumbles
18:20.43timeless_mbpwill probably kill someone
18:20.52timeless_mbpworked *very* hard on that thing
18:20.58timeless_mbpit was supposed to be a very shiny n900 icon
18:21.04timeless_mbpand they had a month to integrate it
18:21.05mikkov__OK, this Software Updater is crap
18:21.17timeless_mbpmikkov_: what happened?
18:21.20zaheermmikkov_, it bricked the phone?
18:21.22qwerty12timeless_mbp: That N900 icons shows up on the Windows running computers I've connected my N900 to
18:21.33mikkov__it crashed when it was supposed to start flashing'
18:21.36timeless_mbpqwerty12: screenshot please
18:21.36mgedmintimeless_mbp, you'll kill somebody, since now I see a generic "document" icon
18:21.38timeless_mbpthere were two rounds of a picture
18:21.47mgedminmaybe what I remember was with ubuntu 9.04 before I upgraded
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18:22.15timeless_mbpmgedmin: there's a .n900.ico on the root of the volume
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18:22.18lardmanoh great debian packagers, are you here?
18:22.20qwerty12timeless_mbp: sec
18:22.27timeless_mbpopen it and see if it gives a shiny thing or a black thing
18:22.29mgedmintimeless_mbp, http://mg.pov.lt/n900-icon-not-worky.png
18:22.53timeless_mbpmgedmin: is that a 770 serving it?
18:23.10mgedminnah, office adsl line with puny uplink
18:23.11zaheermmore like an s40 device
18:23.19mikkov__let's see if I can resurrect this thing
18:23.27sp3000how about progressive png ;)
18:23.38timeless_mbpor icon at top of desktop...
18:24.10javispedrocontributes to overloaded mgedmin's adsl line
18:24.23zaheerm#maemo effect?
18:24.25mgedmin2-line paste flood warning!
18:24.27mgedminmg@platonas:/media/Nokia N900 $ sha1sum .n900.ico
18:24.28mgedmindbd690b709a35aaa7136144ad44439041d633110  .n900.ico
18:24.38javispedrosince when gnome cares about .ico files?
18:24.39mgedmintimeless_mbp, all my viewers say my .n900.ico is broken or invalid
18:24.39luke-jrmgedmin: you just violated the copyright terms on that icon!
18:24.41qwerty12bans mgedmin
18:24.44sp3000doesn't the warning make it 3?
18:25.01timeless_mbpsp3000: fax header page counts have always been fun
18:25.21timeless_mbpbtw, the gnome message text is buggy
18:25.25timeless_mbpwe're debating filing bugs
18:25.28timeless_mbp'what' => 'the
18:25.36timeless_mbp[f]
18:25.37luke-jrlol
18:25.49mgedminooh, gimp can open it and shows a bunch of pretty images
18:26.01javispedrothat'd be my guess.
18:26.03mgedminI'd say gnome/ubuntu bug
18:26.09javispedrothe N900.ico is set through an autorun.inf file
18:26.10javispedroisn't it?
18:26.11timeless_mbpmgedmin: you need a newer less lame version of nautilus or something
18:26.22timeless_mbpif the images are very shiny, then it's just your lame nautilus
18:26.30mgedmin[autorun]
18:26.30mgedminicon=.n900.ico
18:26.31lardmandoes anyone know how to replace dh_quilt_unpatch for our version of dh?
18:26.47javispedroand when did someone start parsing autorun.inf in nautilus?
18:26.51timeless_mbpmgedmin: ok... so, as long as it's mostly shiny on osx+windows
18:26.53timeless_mbpjavispedro: ages ago
18:27.03javispedrooh, I missed the big flamewar then :(
18:27.05timeless_mbpyou can search for bugs i've filed on it to see references to the code
18:27.20timeless_mbpwe had a mini flamewar internally when someone saw my first draft
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18:27.44timeless_mbpsp3000 + myself were like "if gnome didn't want to do this, then it wouldn't have added support for it, DUH"
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18:28.44dmj726what's a good rss reader for n900?
18:28.53javispedrofinds out nautilus will actually run autorun.sh files on cdroms
18:28.57greenflydoesn't it come with one?
18:29.18luke-jrlol
18:29.50qwerty12timeless_mbp: My battery is low and the N900 is refusing to export MyDocs over USB...
18:29.58mgedminI try to use google reader mobile version, with great patience and much unhappiness
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18:30.16greenflyyeah google reader on the n900 isn't exactly there yet
18:30.34dmj726so it does
18:30.34timeless_mbpdmj726: reader.google.com
18:30.39timeless_mbp<PROTECTED>
18:30.42timeless_mbpor /x
18:30.53javispedrohttp://www.ethek.com/wp-content/uploads/windows7-device-stage-1.png
18:30.58greenflyyou /should/ be able to load the full version, and you can, but the UI pops up the URL bar every time it refreshes
18:31.02dmj726the rss reader is google reader or something else?
18:31.05timeless_mbpjavispedro: what is that?
18:31.21timeless_mbpdmj726: we use liverea or something
18:31.23mgedmindidn't even try the bundled rss reader, maybe /he should
18:31.47dmj726has just discovered evolution-rss and is liking it.
18:31.49timeless_mbpmgedmin: i wouldn't bother :)
18:31.56mgedminhere goes nothing: sudo apt-get install procps
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18:32.35mgedminoh, ubuntu...
18:32.40timeless_mbphttps://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595027
18:32.41povbotBug 595027: was not found.
18:32.47mgedminright-clicking on the n900 gives me choices: eject, unmount, and safely remove drive
18:32.49timeless_mbppoints to https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=154549
18:32.50povbotBug 154549: was not found.
18:32.51mgedminWHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE???
18:32.59timeless_mbpunmount doesn't eject
18:33.07mgedminpovbot, stupid, that was a gnome bugzilla, not the maemo bugzilla
18:33.08povbotmgedmin: Error: "stupid," is not a valid command.
18:33.09timeless_mbpeject unmounts and then tells usb "i stopped using you"
18:33.09javispedrotimeless: one of those new paintjob features in windows 7, "device stage".
18:33.19timeless_mbpjavispedro: do you have an n900?
18:33.24mgedmintimeless_mbp, and safely remove?
18:33.35javispedrotimeless: no, that's a microsoft mockup
18:33.35timeless_mbpmgedmin: from a power perspective, unmounting doesn't stop using the service
18:33.37mgedminthree different options are at least one too much
18:33.43*** join/#maemo aSIMULAter (n=me@dsl-hkibrasgw2-fef7de00-17.dhcp.inet.fi)
18:33.45timeless_mbpso the device still has 500mA power
18:34.01timeless_mbpi'm not actually sure how eject and safely remove differ
18:34.03timeless_mbpi could be wrong
18:34.07timeless_mbpyou probably usually want safely remove
18:34.16timeless_mbpperhaps my description is for that
18:34.29timeless_mbpconceptually...
18:34.40timeless_mbpeject should work on the microSD that's in the back
18:34.51timeless_mbpsuch that if you eject, you should be able to safely remove the back cover
18:34.55timeless_mbpswap microSDs
18:35.01timeless_mbprestore the back cover
18:35.08timeless_mbpand somehow have it see the new microSD card
18:35.12mgedminhmm
18:35.13timeless_mbpsafely remove should *not* do that
18:35.22timeless_mbpsince it would depower the device and stop using the service
18:35.26timeless_mbpunmount shouldn't either
18:35.33timeless_mbpbecause it wouldn't tell the device that it unmounted
18:35.45timeless_mbpunmount is basically an OS impl detail that isn't exposed via the USB protocol
18:35.49GeneralAntillesjavispedro, I'm REALLY not impressed by Forum Nokia.
18:36.03timeless_mbpanyway, that would be the technical explanation of what those things *should* do
18:36.08timeless_mbpno idea what they actually *do* do
18:36.18timeless_mbphttps://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=154549
18:36.18ShadowJKI think some windows people once complained that linux "Safely Remove" didn't cut power to the USB device
18:36.18povbotBug 154549: was not found.
18:36.25timeless_mbpkicks povbot
18:36.25*** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
18:36.26mgedminwell, after doing Eject the icon disappears from the desktop
18:36.28*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N810 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
18:36.36timeless_mbpmgedmin: try pulling the usb plug
18:36.41mgedminafter that when you're trying to safely remove from Computer, you get this nice error
18:36.43timeless_mbpif the device whines "you didn't safely remove"
18:36.47mgedminError SYNCHRONIZE CACHE for /dev/sdb: Success sense buffer empty; Error STOP UNIT for /dev/sdb: No such file or directory
18:36.57timeless_mbprotfl
18:37.06mgedminI was just wondering if it were possible to kick it into "charging-only" mode
18:37.10mgedminso I could access my files
18:37.13mgedminfrom the n900
18:37.17timeless_mbpso...
18:37.19mgedminunplug & replug will work
18:37.21timeless_mbpyou never want to use charging only
18:37.26mgedminI don't?
18:37.26timeless_mbpthat's 100mA
18:37.30timeless_mbpyou always want PC Suite
18:37.36mgedminthis is very very interesting
18:37.36timeless_mbpthat's 500mA and no storage lock
18:37.37mgedmintell us more
18:37.47timeless_mbpthe USB protocol is basically this:
18:37.48mgedminwhy is charging only only 100mA?
18:37.51timeless_mbpa device walks into a bar
18:37.55javispedroGeneralAntilles: well, "A caballo regalado.." (according to wiktionary translation "Never look a gift horse in the mouth")
18:38.00sp3000CLANGGG!
18:38.11timeless_mbpthe bar says "howdy stranger, here's enough water for you to use so you can indicate what you want to do"
18:38.14sp3000*clatter*
18:38.23timeless_mbp"until you indicate what you can do, i won't feed you more"
18:38.27timeless_mbp"if you take more, that's theft"
18:38.34GeneralAntillesjavispedro, not much of a gift for US people, though, sadly.
18:38.35timeless_mbp100mA is sufficient to get a device barely up
18:38.45timeless_mbpanyway...
18:38.47Mekbut if my n900 is in charge-only mode, it is already seen as an usb network device by my computer, doesn't that indicate that it already uses more than just the base 100mA?
18:38.57timeless_mbpthe device says "Hey, I speak Mass Storage and <PC Suite>"
18:38.57mgedminwhat's the battery capacity?
18:39.07ShadowJK1340-ish as new
18:39.13timeless_mbpif you use PC Suite, then you're offering Networking
18:39.14mgedminI could fully charge my device with 4 hours of "charging only"
18:39.25*** join/#maemo igagis_ (n=igagis@ns2.vsev.lanck.net)
18:39.29*** join/#maemo mikkov__ (n=mikkov@xdsl-83-150-82-126.nebulazone.fi)
18:39.31Mekit offsers networking in charging-only mode already
18:39.46timeless_mbpoh
18:39.47konttoriJaffa: have you seen the release video of n900 by peter schneider?
18:39.49timeless_mbpwe might be cheating actually
18:39.49konttorihttp://jkontherun.com/2009/11/10/nokia-n900-now-shipping-with-new-enhancements/
18:39.52mgedminalso, in charging only the PC sees a usb mass storage device with two ejected drives
18:39.52timeless_mbpiirc we did :)
18:39.54konttoriLook into 00:36
18:40.11timeless_mbpmgedmin: iirc you're not supposed to change your USB topography
18:40.16mgedminI think what PC Suite does is modprobe g_nokia
18:40.23mgedminwhich enables usb0 networking
18:40.25timeless_mbpyou can say "I'm a hub with 3 ports"
18:40.39mgedminmaybe it never goes away when you unplug, which would explain why Mek sees his n900 as a network device
18:40.40timeless_mbpand then "Ooh, port 1 got another device which is a hub with 5 ports"
18:40.49qwerty12_N810mgedmin: There's a script somewhere on the device, pcsuite_enable.sh
18:40.54timeless_mbpbut you can't say "I've changed my mind, I'm no longer a hub with 3 ports, i'm now a hub with 5 ports"
18:41.02mikkov__Windows updater is simply broken.
18:41.05javispedrowell, you can simulate being unplugged and  replugged
18:41.10timeless_mbpmikkov_: file a bug ;-)
18:41.10javispedrothats what my older palm did
18:41.25javispedroto switch between mass storage / serial cable mode
18:41.29mikkov__I'll have to dig the file and use the linux flasher
18:41.36mgedmininteresting! pcsuite-enable.sh does /sbin/rmmod g_file_storage
18:41.45mgedminamong other things
18:41.49VDVsxseems that some folks already got their hands in the N900, I'm getting a huge amount of spam from maemo.org votes :P
18:42.02mikkov__VDVsx: me too!
18:42.07wazdwait
18:42.28wazdPeter said something bout 5th desktop? :)
18:42.42mgedminbtw procps appears to work and doesn't appear to have bricked my device
18:42.42timeless_mbpwazd: eh?
18:42.51timeless_mbpanyway... that's the general idea
18:42.54kynkynokia uk shop still says order not shipped :(
18:42.59Suurorca"damn, why didn't they release it a few weeks later"
18:43.02konttoriwazd: umm when ? (about 5th)
18:43.03wazdtimeless_mbp: http://jkontherun.com/2009/11/10/nokia-n900-now-shipping-with-new-enhancements/
18:43.06timeless_mbpbasically a device plugged into a host isn't allowed to steal power
18:43.13wazdkonttori: 0:17 mark
18:43.26wazdmaybe I've missheard something
18:43.35timeless_mbpuntil the user chooses a usb profile from the device
18:43.38lardmanpatches where appropriate then gets rid
18:43.40timeless_mbpat which point the host provides it
18:43.54lardmananyone interested in Fremantle builds of pocketsphinx and flite?
18:44.05konttorinooo.. there is not 5th screen. Perhaps he referred to dashboard
18:44.06mgedmintimeless_mbp, is there a way to figure out the power mode in /sys somewhere?
18:44.17timeless_mbpi think there's some stuff for that
18:44.19zaheermVDVsx, can they vote only with a device? :)
18:44.21timeless_mbpbut i don't remember how to
18:44.36lcukhe said he needed a 5th soon.   in relation to how full his were
18:44.48VDVsxzaheerm, no
18:44.49VDVsxlol
18:44.54zaheermVDVsx, :)
18:44.56*** join/#maemo ArSa (n=ArSa@nc-71-0-121-232.sta.embarqhsd.net)
18:44.58lcuksaying he was running out of space
18:45.01timeless_mbplcuk: yeah, that's what i thought i heard
18:45.13timeless_mbphe's not saying there is one
18:45.13VDVsxzaheerm, downloads are also raising ;)
18:45.17lcukthats not the same as a product announcement
18:45.21timeless_mbp"raising [sic]"
18:45.22lcukthats just him having it full
18:45.29mgedmintries to figure out a mapping from "bus 001 device 017" to /sys/bus/usb/devices
18:45.29ShadowJKQuick, someone blog that he said there will be a fifth. The blogosphere will perpetuate the lies until they become truth
18:45.33timeless_mbpthat's saying that he as a customer has an unsupported need
18:45.41lcukmagic button!
18:45.42*** join/#maemo GiantTalkingCow (n=gianttal@adsl-76-242-26-4.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
18:45.47javispedroand the fifth screen will act like a capacitive screen!
18:45.56*** join/#maemo AStorm (n=astralst@unaffiliated/astralstorm)
18:45.56*** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
18:46.04fralswith multitouch!
18:46.09frals(and color-fax)
18:46.13lcukmind you, if anyone was asking for a new feature, he is the more likely than most to get his way :P
18:46.21timeless_mbpfrals: some people would settle for printing support
18:46.27lcuk+100
18:46.44javispedrodocstogo had printing support on palmos
18:46.45ShadowJKright now would want a working USB hub for his PC
18:47.29*** join/#maemo vivijim1 (n=vivijim@pc-a80045.wlan.inet.fi)
18:47.30Suurorcaand i wand the thing to work as a holo-projector :)
18:47.45konttorilcuk: by the way, welcome to the team
18:47.48kynkybe cool if the n900 could be a wireless usb hub
18:47.50SpeedEvilHolo projectors are boring.
18:47.51ShadowJKa regular projector would be quite awesome... or video goggles
18:47.53SpeedEvilReplicators.
18:48.10timeless_mbpgets to the bit about the expensive flashlight for developed countries
18:48.15lcuk:) konttori indeed.
18:48.15javispedroSpeedEvil: replicators capable of replicating the n920 with just a sw update
18:48.25ShadowJKtimeless, nah, there are real flashlight that cost the same
18:48.32konttorilcuk: I cannot see you yet in internal irc though.
18:48.37mgedminShadowJK, probably last longer too
18:48.47ShadowJKmgedmin, not sure :)
18:49.03dmj726iphone is an expensive flashlight that lets you pay more for it to be a flashlight.
18:49.04lcukkonttori, few days, setting up stuff
18:49.25SpeedEvilOh ...
18:49.27konttoriok. cool. I added most of the permissions you need earlier today
18:49.35SpeedEvilCan the flash LEDs be turned on to act like a flashlight?
18:49.45SpeedEvilThey will presumably need to be PWM'd to keep them in SOA
18:49.46mgedminlsusb -v shows me the N900 has two configurations self-powered 100mA and bus-powered 500mA
18:49.50mgedminif I understand the output correctly
18:50.02lcukyeah i saw those, reading mostly atm
18:50.21konttoriSpeedEvil: yes, you can keep it on
18:50.56timeless_mbpmgedmin: 500mA is the most a device can legally ask for from a host
18:51.01timeless_mbp100mA is the minimum a device will get
18:51.04SpeedEvil^USB2 host
18:51.07SpeedEvilUSB3 ...
18:51.12timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: i believe in usb1
18:51.15SpeedEvilstabs the USB3 standard.
18:51.17javispedrowhen did USB become ugly
18:51.20timeless_mbpyeah usb3 is ... whatever
18:51.21SpeedEvilUSB1/2 standard.
18:51.26timeless_mbpjavispedro: OHCI/UHCI ?
18:51.32SpeedEviljavispedro: 1.1 isn't too bad.
18:51.42javispedroSpeedEvil: agreed
18:51.45SpeedEviljavispedro: 2 is a whole nother kettle of banannas.
18:51.52timeless_mbpanyway, the autorun.inf stuff in nautilus dates to a request in 2004 or so
18:52.01SpeedEviljavispedro: And 3, the inmates have taken over the asylum.
18:52.04timeless_mbpit landed in early 2008
18:52.12javispedroearly 2008.. so no debian lenny
18:52.27timeless_mbpjavispedro: basically you need a really modern linux distro
18:52.35timeless_mbpand you need a non lame graphics thingy too
18:52.42timeless_mbpit turns out that my enhanced art trips something
18:52.42dmj7262008 != modern
18:52.45timeless_mbpwe were going to file a bug
18:52.48timeless_mbpbut i think we forgot
18:52.54*** join/#maemo tekonivel (n=user@ns.lasipalatsi.net)
18:52.55javispedroah, for the "shininess"
18:53.07timeless_mbpwell, the icon is either properly parsed, or not
18:53.15timeless_mbpso you either get *shiny* or broken
18:53.16*** join/#maemo GreyFoxx (i=greg@216.83.31.88)
18:53.25timeless_mbpif you want the older dull icon, i can leak it
18:53.28timeless_mbpbut i'd rather not
18:53.32timeless_mbpi'm proud of my shiny icon
18:53.35*** join/#maemo sphenxes (n=sphenxes@85-127-168-223.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at)
18:53.47GeneralAntilleswants a new image. :(
18:53.50timeless_mbpit probably makes my one contribution the *most* visible one in the entire program
18:53.54javispedro:)
18:53.55javispedrotrue.
18:53.55timeless_mbps/program/product/
18:54.02qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: leak the older one so we can laugh at how non-shiny it is
18:54.30timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: iirc it's in the tutorial
18:55.11qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: I uninstalled it...
18:55.20javispedrowould have prefered a "killer n900" icon with blood and gore to match the new ad's
18:55.40GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to make a new killer penguin widget
18:55.55GeneralAntillesWith a penguin that wanders around the desktop shooting holes in it with its laser eyes.
18:56.11mgedminpenguin with accelerometer-controlled eyes
18:56.29javispedrosomeone could make a penguin doll with lasers instead of eyes
18:56.36javispedroand give them in the next summit
18:56.42GeneralAntillespew pew
18:56.59dmj726Perhaps a gift for Ballmer?
18:57.24javispedrois remembered of the "mr. gates, I'll be your host today" giant penguin posters their uni' BOFHs have.
18:58.01javispedros/their/his
18:58.14timeless_mbppokes mgedmin 's irc client
18:58.15javispedrobasic grammar... the last frontier.
18:58.38SpeedEvilpenguin with carebarestare.
18:59.10mgedminback
18:59.12dmj726I've actually seen a dorm room with no fewer than 7 stuffed penguins.
18:59.23mgedminI have three or four
18:59.34dmj726one of which was a giant penguin in a red hat.
18:59.59javispedroI have a stuffed yoshi instead. I prefer tropical climates.
19:00.06javispedro:)
19:00.12timeless_mbp<PROTECTED>
19:00.16qwerty12_N810dmj726: Good for target practice, then, I'm guessing...
19:00.18timeless_mbpwas the source for the older icon fwiw
19:00.25timeless_mbp(roughly)
19:00.58*** join/#maemo ScriptRipper (n=martin@host-82-135-36-197.customer.m-online.net)
19:01.22SpeedEvilI have one plastic penguin.
19:01.28fiferboyRST38h: I just methodically got five anonymous ratings on each of my products (in alphabetical order)
19:01.47SpeedEvilwonder WTF is going on
19:01.51SpeedEvilnegative?
19:02.14fiferboyIt is weird, the first brought my average down, the second up, third down, fourth up
19:02.22GeneralAntillesfiferboy, guess it's the ratings from Maemo Select?
19:02.30fiferboyMaybe it is rounding
19:02.31javispedrolol.
19:02.34javispedrolol.
19:02.46javispedrorates from Maemo Select' er... "average" users into the QA?
19:02.55fiferboyIt happens about once a minute, five times in a row for each product, then moves on to the next one
19:03.12ShadowJKAha, now THIS is an expensive flashlight for developed countries, 900 pounds: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-513644/Worlds-brightest-torch-lights-objects-miles-away.html
19:03.18GeneralAntillesfiferboy, Downloads or Packages?
19:03.19lcukdoes danielwilms app have rating in?
19:03.23lcukperhaps hes testing it
19:03.27fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Downloads
19:03.41GeneralAntillesfiferboy, pretty sure it's the Maemo Select ratings.
19:03.51*** join/#maemo b0unc3 (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-155-64.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
19:04.08SpeedEvilShadowJK: IIRC that's not really true - I recall brighter
19:04.18*** join/#maemo trofi (n=slyfox@93.84.108.0)
19:04.18javispedroah, downloads. sorry, I read something about testing before :P
19:04.26fiferboyWhere do you even rate an application on Maemo select?
19:04.30SpeedEvilShadowJK: kilowatt HID bulbs portable
19:04.38GeneralAntillesfiferboy, on the listings pages.
19:04.38ShadowJKSpeedEvil, yes it says so in the article that there are brighter, but this one reaches further because the beam is much more focused
19:04.40fiferboyAh, only on the non-detailed screen?
19:04.45GeneralAntillesAlthough the ratings system is super broken.
19:04.56GeneralAntillesDoesn't respond to clicks most of the time.
19:05.07SpeedEvilShadowJK: Actually - I think I made a possibly comparable one.
19:05.13mgedminvideo out supports portrait, cool
19:05.21lcuk"<GeneralAntilles> Doesn't respond to clicks most of the time."
19:05.24wazdfiferboy: how's it going? :)
19:05.26lcukclick click click click
19:05.27mgedminit never occurred to me to try that
19:05.34fiferboyDo the select ratings take into account the maemo.org download ratings?
19:05.38lcuk"why are my votes goin up n down"
19:05.38mgedminnot that there are many apps that support portrait
19:05.39SpeedEvilShadowJK: 1W LED, with a 1.5*1.5mm source but a 60cm*60cm lens. not really important
19:05.40fiferboywazd: Pretty good.  You?
19:06.01GeneralAntillesfiferboy, I assume so, but dunno.
19:06.07wazdfiferboy: same as always :)
19:06.08*** join/#maemo elninja (n=r@adsl-76-208-9-213.dsl.sbndin.sbcglobal.net)
19:06.53fiferboyHmm, m.o downloads says 61 downloads, Maemo select says 52...
19:06.57ShadowJKIf you settle for just frying scrambled eggs instead of a whole dog, it's as cheap as 300 :)
19:07.18qwerty12_N810But whole dog is more tasty :(
19:09.09javispedroqwerty12_N810: there's an app for that
19:09.35lardmanI nearly tried dog when I was in korea
19:09.55lardmandidn;t look too tasty tho, so went for the live squid instead
19:11.05ShadowJKSo when you get fed up with your N900/iphones/droids/hd2/whatever, you can just "illuminate" them...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AluuEjloH0M
19:12.03fiferboylardman: Was the squid bathed in lard?
19:12.53*** join/#maemo serenity (n=serenity@p4FC69767.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
19:13.06serenityyeah, maemo runs under scratchbox
19:13.36lardmanfiferboy: no; had it been, there would have been no hesitation and thoughts of eating a pooch
19:14.37lardmancurses flite debianisation
19:16.13*** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
19:19.23lardmanhmm, managed to hack it into building, but any debianites will not be pleased with my methods I imagine
19:21.35*** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
19:23.15timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: ping
19:23.23qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: pong
19:23.23timeless_mbpdid you write the updated binary thing for me?
19:23.59qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: I gave you a link to a zenity binary that accepts a --parent-window=XID param
19:24.09timeless_mbpyeah, but the cpa part?
19:24.36timeless_mbpyou gave me an arm binary, right?
19:24.49timeless_mbpi can't really test that w/o xwininfo which ... hrm
19:25.14qwerty12_N810Nope, I was waiting for you to finish off the required modifications to your stuff so I could modify the CPA as required
19:25.16*** join/#maemo Mousey (n=wtfisme@sea01-v500-nat.marchex.com)
19:25.30qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: Yes, it was an ARM binary
19:25.43timeless_mbpis x11-utils available anywhere?
19:25.59GeneralAntillesSDK repo, maybe.
19:27.22timeless_mbpcould someone check, i'm a bit busy?
19:27.48*** join/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host81-155-227-189.range81-155.btcentralplus.com)
19:28.09*** part/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host81-155-227-189.range81-155.btcentralplus.com)
19:29.00javispedrotimeless: x11-utils 7.4+2-1maemo3 , probably sdk repo
19:29.30timeless_mbpbusy waits for the catalogs item to open
19:29.59javispedrosdk tools repo actually
19:30.21serenitywhich repo must i add inside maemo to get apps?
19:30.32*** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@162.84-49-132.nextgentel.com)
19:30.48timeless_mbpserenity: just enable extras
19:31.10zaheermwith gtk+/hildon how is best way to have a floating bar of widgets like say in the video player come up with controls on touch?
19:31.16javispedrohttp://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/x/x11-utils/
19:31.42timeless_mbpis the tools repo "safe" for use on the device?
19:32.00lcuki use it
19:32.05javispedrosafe guess is "it's not". but x11-utils package alone shouldn't cause much damage
19:32.07lcukrandomly
19:36.35timeless_mbpok, your zenity binary work
19:36.53timeless_mbpbut i can't use that feature w/o knowing that the zenity supports it
19:37.02timeless_mbpcan you promise me a zenity package version number?
19:37.56qwerty12_N810I will update it, I promise (I tried y/day but maemo-optify went up the shitter)
19:38.20timeless_mbpoh
19:38.27timeless_mbpalso, please add it to --help[-something]
19:38.39qwerty12_N810It should be there; try --help-general
19:38.57timeless_mbpoh, i didn't see --hildon before
19:38.58timeless_mbpis that new?
19:39.11*** join/#maemo L0cutus (n=kki@94.162.190.62)
19:39.17qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: No, but it's useless for the most part under Fremantle
19:39.18timeless_mbp(it doesn't seem to work)
19:39.44timeless_mbpshould i use it under the assumption that you'll eventually fix it? :)
19:40.03qwerty12_N810I'd recommend not to use it...
19:40.07timeless_mbpok
19:40.25lardmanflite & pocketsphinx here, let me know if they do or don't work: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/speech/
19:41.25Stskeepsis it possible to call someone over sip without a sip account?
19:42.10*** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
19:42.19timeless_mbpyou'd need a sip gateway :)
19:42.27Stskeepsand i guess google talk doesn't count
19:42.59timeless_mbpi'm not quite sure what you mean
19:43.08*** join/#maemo guysoft42 (i=guy@93-173-109-10.bb.netvision.net.il)
19:43.10timeless_mbpsip involves giving your device a hint about a sip gateway
19:43.19timeless_mbpthink of it as a point of presence
19:43.22Stskeepsmm
19:43.27timeless_mbpi don't think we run our own sip server
19:43.31timeless_mbpnote that i really don't speak sip
19:43.38timeless_mbpso i could be wrong
19:43.57timeless_mbpbut that's the general idea, i think
19:44.20timeless_mbpalthough if i understand correctly you end up doing point to point connections after you dial
19:45.08timeless_mbpbut i'm pretty sure you use the server to deal w/ directory lookups
19:45.09timeless_mbp"where's the server i can use to talk to so-and-so?"
19:45.18timeless_mbpor "hi point-of-presence, i'm over here, tell me when someone calls me"
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19:50.15suihkulokkitimeless_mbp: you can make direct sip-phone <-> sip-phone calls without any servers or gateways inbetween, if the recieving side is configured in to allow that
19:50.40timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: so i can callto:@192.168.200.167 ?
19:51.03SpeedEvilShadowJK: Ah yes. http://www.polarion-store.com/cat_polarion.cfm was what I was thinking of.
19:51.22timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: does our ui support that? :)
19:51.44suihkulokki1) yes (firewalls and proxies permitting) 2) no clue
19:52.54suihkulokkiin the original sip plans people would use dns as the directory
19:53.32suihkulokkibut indeed, these days most people configure their sip phones to make calls through a specified gateway/server/proxy
19:53.47*** join/#maemo nslu2-log (n=nslu2-lo@limax.nslu2-linux.org)
19:54.32ShadowJKjust dials normal numbers and has no clue how to dial sip outside of the "normal" telephony addressspace
19:54.32javispedrols
19:54.51javispedroouch. damn wrong window zorder
19:54.52*** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
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19:55.12acidjazzany update on the n900 shipping
19:55.45javispedroacidjazz: http://talk.maemo.org
19:56.26acidjazzyea its all crap
19:56.32acidjazzppl yelling at each other
19:56.35acidjazzi read the forum 1st always
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19:57.26kynkymine doesnt say shipping on uk nokia shop, afaict nokia shipping to resellers first like amazon and mpd, who will ship on 16th to have in hands of customers on 17th, but no idea on nokia shop deliveries, although i imagine it will vary from region to region
19:58.46SpeedEvilMine also says nothing about shipping on my uk nokia shop order of the 20th last month
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20:01.37GeneralAntillesGoddamnit
20:01.42GeneralAntillesStupid Nokia and their stupid NSU.
20:02.05*** join/#maemo realitygaps (n=realityg@83.170.117.117)
20:03.12timeless_mbpheh
20:03.31SpeedEvilNSU?
20:03.39GeneralAntillesWindows updater
20:03.56SpeedEvilah
20:04.34*** join/#maemo jrocha (n=JRocha@40.86.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com)
20:04.37realitygapsis there a non NSU way of updating? I remember the flasher was updated to work with n900 but couldnt find a rom anywhere
20:05.09GeneralAntillesrealitygaps, yes, but they need to release a FIASCO image, first.
20:05.36SpeedEvilI assume there is a linux flasher?
20:06.24realitygapsGeneralAntilles: any idea of an ETA for that? or do i have to find a freedom hating machine to use :(
20:06.26qwerty12_N810SpeedEvil: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/maemo_flasher-3-5_tool_final_for_fremantle_and_diablo_released/
20:06.31kynkymaemo flasher 3.5 iirc
20:06.32timeless_mbpwe could probably leak an image :)
20:06.40timeless_mbpbut i don't have one
20:06.51*** part/#maemo serenity (n=serenity@p4FC69767.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
20:06.55kynkyimage should be for d/l soon i thought considering shipped status
20:06.58GeneralAntillesrealitygaps, I really hope the week 42 image NSU seems to be providing isn't the real deal.
20:07.06GeneralAntillesOtherwise that was a big waste of a deylay.
20:07.10GeneralAntilless/deylay/delay/
20:07.20timeless_mbpkynky: i'm not sure
20:07.21realitygapsGeneralAntilles: me too but maybe its a later revision?
20:07.27timeless_mbpafaiu historically we've never offered the original image
20:07.27dmj726Yeah, I don't even have a Windows box in booting condition right now.
20:07.43timeless_mbpdmj726: the flasher that people use @nokia is flasher-3.5
20:07.46realitygapsdmj726: me either, already had to install a debian just to get scratchbox working on linux
20:07.47timeless_mbpwhich runs on windows and linux
20:07.53timeless_mbphas never gotten it to work on osx
20:07.56GeneralAntillesand OS X
20:08.06timeless_mbpfor me, it doesn't work
20:08.07qwerty12_N810No one cares about OS X
20:08.21timeless_mbpkicks qwerty12_N810
20:08.27dmj726Ubuntu machines I have in plenty
20:08.32GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, works on every machine I've tried so far
20:08.38realitygapsdmj726: ubuntu is too broken for me for daily use
20:08.39GeneralAntilles10.5/10.6 PPC/Intel machines.
20:08.54timeless_mbpponders
20:08.59timeless_mbpi've tried it on two macbooks
20:09.01timeless_mbpneither liked it
20:09.04dmj726Karmic is fine for my daily use.
20:09.14realitygapstimeless_mbp: as root?
20:09.18GeneralAntilleslol
20:09.23timeless_mbprealitygaps: um
20:09.27GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, maybe 10.5/Intel is the machine fail?
20:09.30timeless_mbpthe error message was from the loader
20:09.34realitygapsdmj726: karmic dropped my laptop battery life to half for starters...
20:09.38timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: 10.5-intel yes
20:09.40dmj726eeek?
20:09.47realitygapsdmj726: and kde on ubuntu is really pretty crappy
20:09.53dmj726which distro do you use realitygaps?
20:09.59realitygapsdmj726: generally archlinux
20:10.00GeneralAntilless/machine/magic/
20:10.00qwerty12_N810s/on ubuntu//
20:10.04dmj726I'm a GNOME user/dev
20:10.10realitygapssometimes debian (sidux)
20:10.32realitygapsdmj726: did they fix apt-get install gnome in ubuntu yet? its been broken nearly every release i tried
20:10.56GeneralAntillesWeek 42, what a waste of time and effort.
20:11.10dmj726I just get the Ubuntu with GNOME
20:11.13timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: eh?
20:11.17timeless_mbpjust wait for pr1.1
20:11.22timeless_mbpwhich won't include a browser update :)
20:11.31GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, unfortunately a lot of people are going to buy these things and perhaps never upgrade.
20:11.42realitygapsdmj726: yes but thats ubuntu-desktop - if you try apt-get install gnome (to grab the full gnome) then it usually says broken packages, even in LTS
20:11.51dmj726hmmm
20:11.51realitygapsGeneralAntilles: its a real shame
20:11.57dmj726never tried it.
20:11.59realitygapsthey had a chance to really fix so much
20:12.12timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: well, since the important browser upgrade won't come out until even later...
20:12.39realitygapswill the NSU wipe the big disk?
20:13.31StskeepsGeneralAntilles: week 42 (freeze) revision 11
20:13.38Stskeepsas far as i can tell
20:13.58realitygapshopes someone in this channel might leak him a nokia image that is flashable under linux....
20:14.09edgar2+1
20:15.50*** join/#maemo matt__ (i=ce84c209@gateway/web/freenode/x-cwtxsowttjkqbqlj)
20:16.22GeneralAntillesWoo, NSU is throwing errors in Finnish.
20:16.36GeneralAntillesOh, now it's in English
20:16.40GeneralAntillesWindows 7 is not supported?
20:16.41GeneralAntillesAwesome.
20:16.43fiferboyNSU detects my N900, but says there is no updated firmware available...
20:16.46timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: nice
20:16.47*** join/#maemo andre__ (n=andre@g1.blanicka25.net)
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20:16.56timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: actually
20:17.00GeneralAntillesNokia: Bringing the Fail
20:17.07timeless_mbpgiven that the nokia stuff has a broken service name
20:17.13*** join/#maemo kami (n=shad0wcc@dyndsl-085-016-228-248.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
20:17.13realitygapsNokia: open source via closed source platforms
20:17.15timeless_mbpsuch that the microsoft fire wall says FCUK OFF
20:17.23kamihi all
20:17.31lardmanwonders why xchat closes itself whenever he walks away from the pc for more than 10min
20:17.35timeless_mbpthe nokia app names have a trailing space :)
20:17.43timeless_mbpthe windows firewall does *not* approve
20:17.53timeless_mbp(such a thing is typically a sign of an evil app)
20:18.03Stskeepsa firewall after your head?
20:18.15*** join/#maemo BBNS_ (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
20:18.16Stskeepser, according
20:18.59kynkywindows needs package manager with reposotories
20:19.23GeneralAntillesI can't even begin to fathom that working on Windows.
20:19.26realitygapskynky: that would be great then thousands of users would click to add the virus repository in their IE
20:19.35luke-jrkynky: so do most OS
20:19.41realitygapskynky: and enter their credit cards after clicking install
20:19.42*** join/#maemo benh_ (n=benh@54.200.49.122-static.velocitynet.com.au)
20:19.48kynkylol
20:20.04dmj726Imagine a package manager that doesn't need a credit card!
20:20.20matt__I just updated my N900 from 37 - 42. Now I notice that I can't save files.  Looks like the fs mounted at /home/user/MyDocs has rodir in /etc/fstab and not rw.  Why is this? Is su the only fix? how do I do that?
20:20.22MuJlardman: faulty powersace options or somethingg?
20:20.54MuJsave*
20:21.00*** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk)
20:21.06suihkulokkirealitygaps: hows that different that the current reality where windows users click to add a virus.exe and give it their cc number ?
20:21.06sp3000hrm, why is mirror lacking packages in extras proper
20:21.19sp3000and why does it list python-support twice :)
20:21.26realitygapssuihkulokki: it would just be more efficient :)
20:21.37lcuksuihkulokki, where can i download that from? sounds cool
20:21.43timeless_mbpmatt__: if your file system is corrupted
20:21.46timeless_mbpwe'll mount it ro
20:21.56timeless_mbpthere's a repair tool floating around somewhere in the n900 iirc
20:22.10suihkulokkithe only difference I see that with a repo the virus provider can provide smooth updates if they don't get knocked of the internet
20:22.11timeless_mbpalternatively you can try to plug it into a windows computer and use checkdisk
20:22.13realitygapsbusy downloading an XP image to try flash nokias 'open phone' using windows in virtualbox
20:22.31timeless_mbpwhere did you guys find the image?
20:22.31lcukhiya timeless :) settled back in now
20:22.32lcuk?
20:22.38timeless_mbplcuk: mostly
20:22.52timeless_mbpi have 400-500 unread bugmails
20:23.06lcukyikes
20:23.08timeless_mbpdown from perhaps 10,000 iirc
20:23.14timeless_mbpdunno, i didn't pay much attn to that part
20:23.47sp3000hrm, the openssh combo package isn't happy either (it's missing its parts)
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20:34.33sp3000so how do you vote packages down from extras proper :}
20:35.03SpeedEvil<PROTECTED>
20:35.49qwerty12_N810iBoobs first, please, kthxbye
20:36.12lcukSpeedEvil, arduino
20:36.21*** join/#maemo realitygaps_ (n=realityg@252-59.saturn.maardu.stv.ee)
20:36.28SpeedEvillcuk: well - yes.
20:36.40lcukuse a pair of n900s (or 1 with a mirror to get stereoscopic vision)
20:36.55*** join/#maemo realitygaps_ (n=realityg@252-59.saturn.maardu.stv.ee)
20:37.17lcukwas looking at robot parts last night
20:37.55SpeedEvillcuk: car scrapyards are good sources.
20:38.11SpeedEvillcuk: door lock motors, windscreen wipers, ...
20:38.12lcuki was thinking of starting a bit smaller with something i could host an n900 in
20:38.17lcuklike the dog, but with more firepower
20:38.44SpeedEvillcuk: Clearly you need to mount a flamethrower on your dog.
20:39.41*** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
20:39.50lcukthese surprised me
20:39.52lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYRehpTxbik
20:39.52*** join/#maemo JoeBrain (n=JoeBrain@173.8.184.9)
20:40.01lcukand my missus would not let me have one tho
20:40.30*** join/#maemo realitygaps_ (n=realityg@252-59.saturn.maardu.stv.ee)
20:40.49lcukand these are even worse - like cockroaches (v big and fast) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Soq9qpK5Ac
20:41.00*** join/#maemo JoeBrain (n=JoeBrain@64-175-155-252.ded.pacbell.net)
20:41.28lcukoh cool i found the really evil looking spider one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdR0q-suw0c&feature=related
20:41.56matt__Yes, there is a remark for FAT error: invalid cluster chain at ipos 0. MS chckdisk does nothing. Where is this other tool?  I can not umount (not permitted) and can not run fsck in mass storage mode.
20:42.28*** join/#maemo chenca (n=chenca@200.184.118.130)
20:43.50suihkulokkitimeless_mbp: apparently our ui doesn't allowing sip calls without a sip account, and when you have one, all the calls seem to the service provider...
20:44.21timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: cute
20:44.43lardmanMuJ: dunno, but it's still running this time :)
20:45.30suihkulokkitimeless_mbp: could just be my incompetence with sip setup and uris
20:45.41*** join/#maemo fiferboy (n=fiferboy@Maemo/community/contributor/fiferboy)
20:46.07lardmanhmm, flite -v "hello how are you" makes a small squeak and tells me it's created 1.498125s of audio
20:46.43timeless_mbplardman: that should be "hello, how are you?"
20:46.51*** join/#maemo Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun)
20:47.01timeless_mbpunless you know someone fn:how, mn:are ln:you
20:47.03lardmantimeless_mbp: you reckon it objects to my grammar? ;)
20:47.18timeless_mbpits legal to read it considerably faster w/o punctuation :)
20:47.23lardman:)
20:47.31qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: it's
20:47.33timeless_mbps/its/it's/
20:47.40lcuklardman, it would have more problems trying to speak northern
20:47.52qwerty12_N810had to have his turn at being a pedant ;)
20:47.59lardmantrue, adding a "," and a "?" made the alleged output .3 s longer
20:48.09GiantTalkingCowSpeaking of reading faster, I've got a bit of a weird question: do you all read normally word by word or a sentence at a time?
20:48.17*** join/#maemo briglia (n=briglia@189.2.128.130)
20:48.31timeless_mbpGiantTalkingCow: 'you all' and 'normally' and complex sentence structure
20:48.32lardman5 words at a time, or thereabouts I guess
20:48.33timeless_mbp= yuck
20:48.39lcukif the text is correctly formatted you can read much faster
20:48.39timeless_mbpi read word at a time
20:48.46lcukfor irc its slower
20:48.55lardmantoo many northerners ;)
20:48.56SpeedEvilThere was one insane nutter over on #freenode - possibly still is.
20:48.58timeless_mbpbut i read fairly quickly
20:48.59SpeedEvilBlind person.
20:49.00timeless_mbpi think i have a 5 word buffer
20:49.12lcukSpeedEvil, thats not insane
20:49.12SpeedEvilWho had his screenreader going at 600wpm
20:49.17timeless_mbpthat's fairly typical
20:49.18qwerty12_N810lardman: so true
20:49.34timeless_mbpblind users w/ screen readers will tune their readers up to incredibly fast speeds
20:49.39*** join/#maemo serenity (n=serenity@p4FC69767.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
20:49.55timeless_mbpthere was a demo (mostly auditory) a week ago, sunday
20:50.05serenityserenity@mangolassi:~$ /scratchbox/login
20:50.05GiantTalkingCowSpeedEvil: Oh yeah, I remember that guy. I tried something like that myself. I was able to follow everything without much trouble, but it sort of lost the nuance. That sort of thing is fine for absorbing technical info, but I just don't see plays or stories working very well.
20:50.07serenitybash: /scratchbox/login: Permission denied
20:50.07timeless_mbpby ibm showing a screenreader-browser thing
20:50.10*** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
20:50.23timeless_mbpwhich managed to deal with 'descriptive audio' in conjunction with a video
20:50.25sp3000oh, oops, user error
20:50.32timeless_mbpit was based on fennec
20:50.38matt__timeless_mbp ? where can i find the other fsck?
20:50.43lcukneat
20:50.44timeless_mbpmatt__: um
20:50.46timeless_mbpdunno :)
20:50.57lcukthe other one?
20:50.57*** join/#maemo saltsa_ (i=aunola@xdsl-179-131.nblnetworks.fi)
20:50.58serenitywhy can't i login in scratchbox?
20:51.05matt__Is there a source repository somewhere?
20:51.06timeless_mbpserenity: you forgot to log out
20:51.19timeless_mbpunix permissions are assigned at log in
20:51.24timeless_mbps/log in/login/ (?)
20:51.51timeless_mbpso if you login, create a group x, put yourself into it, and try to use the group, you'll find you aren't a member
20:51.53lcukwhich ides offer ui designer and not so much boilerplate?
20:52.04lcukor rather, not so much required
20:52.09lcukfor me to type
20:52.20timeless_mbplcuk: copy xul files !
20:52.21timeless_mbp:)
20:52.43lcukyeah, xul is nice ill give you that
20:53.07timeless_mbps/ill/i'll/
20:53.21qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: Working on Gecko and such, how do you justify to yourself using Safari?
20:53.23lardmanwould you believe it, pocketsphinx actually works :)
20:53.31timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: i can't uninstall it
20:53.36timeless_mbpand i'm in the credits
20:53.52*** part/#maemo serenity (n=serenity@p4FC69767.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
20:54.00qwerty12_N810Terrible excuse :-)
20:54.04timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: do you have webkit handy?
20:54.27qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: I use Tear on the N810, but apart from that, no
20:54.42*** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
20:55.25GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N810, he'd never admit it, but it's the native widgets. ;)
20:55.31lardmanwow, flite also works
20:55.51timeless_mbphttp://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/k/kde4libs/kde4libs_4.3.1-0ubuntu2/kdelibs5.copyright
20:55.55GiantTalkingCowLast time I used it, Fennec was dog slow, albeit with a nice UI. I wonder if it's improved any?
20:55.55timeless_mbpheck, i'm in the khtml credits :)
20:56.04timeless_mbpGiantTalkingCow: a bit faster
20:56.09timeless_mbpand support for html5:video
20:56.25timeless_mbphttp://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:FLur08s0lq0J:opensource.apple.com/source/files/files-521/Library/Documentation/Acknowledgements.rtf+webkit+credits+timeless+soref&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk
20:56.40lcuktheres a youtube converter somewhere isnt there?  does native html5+video tag run faster/smoother than hosting in flash
20:56.47GiantTalkingCowGood to know, I suppose. I do hope it gets up to snuff. I enjoy having an adblocker without having to tweak my hosts file.
20:56.48*** join/#maemo flo_lap (n=fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian)
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20:57.07lcukthat reminds me
20:57.12lcuki need to fix flashblock again
20:57.13GiantTalkingCowYes there is. I read about it on Reddit yesterday. A quick search over there and you should find it.
20:57.22lcukits letting flash through on my win box
20:57.42GeneralAntillesGiantTalkingCow, AdBlock is in Extras.
20:57.45GeneralAntillesFor Fremantle, anyway.
20:58.08*** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian)
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20:58.43lcukin garage
20:58.48lcukthere is an old project
20:58.53lcukand its svn is not public
20:58.54timeless_mbpgrep -i timeless /Library/Documentation/Acknowledgements.rtf |perl -pne 's/.*(<timeless.*?>).*/$1/'
20:58.54timeless_mbp<timeless@mac.com>
20:59.01lcuki thought all svn stuff was public
20:59.03timeless_mbpsee :)
20:59.07GeneralAntillesmisses iTools.
20:59.12lcukhttps://garage.maemo.org/projects/bac/
20:59.18timeless_mbpwhat's iTools?
20:59.18lcukcannot download files
20:59.23qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: :)
20:59.29*** join/#maemo briglia (n=briglia@189.2.128.130)
20:59.37timeless_mbpthat's kinda cool, no? :)
20:59.38lcukthinks timeless rocks
20:59.48timeless_mbpi'm in credits in a number of amusing places :)
20:59.53timeless_mbpi think my favorite is lsof :)
21:00.04lcuknot for that :P i meant cos you know how to regex :P
21:00.05GeneralAntilleshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MobileMe
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21:00.16matt__lcuk -- I'm looking for a way run fsck; but I can't without root.  Any idea how to get there?
21:00.17qwerty12_N810timeless: Yes, but now I can't say you're a traitor to Mozilla :(
21:00.33lcukmatt__, your fscked
21:00.43lcukgainroot
21:00.47lcuki think
21:00.49timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: that bit is because of work that was taken by apple (really dave hyatt) from mozilla when he started working on webkit
21:01.17timeless_mbpfrowns
21:01.23timeless_mbphow the heck do i find lsof credits anyway?
21:01.32lcukgoogle
21:01.33fiferboyHmm, the old NSU detects my N900 but says there is no update
21:01.40fiferboyThe new NSU doesn't detect my N900...
21:01.46timeless_mbpi'm failing to google for it
21:01.53*** join/#maemo hardaker (n=hardaker@host-194-198.meeting.ietf.org)
21:01.53qwerty12_N810fiferboy: Yeah, Canadians not allowed
21:02.04lcukemail?
21:02.07timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: not funny, historically iranians aren't allowed
21:02.10fiferboyqwerty12_N810: Ah.  I wondered if it was something like that
21:02.25timeless_mbpITAR iirc
21:02.26lardmanhmm, play_wave doesn't seem to work in flite
21:02.39lardmangoes and watches CSI
21:02.57timeless_mbpeep
21:03.07timeless_mbpok, where the heck is lsof actually hosted?
21:03.32Robot101robot101@tau:/usr/share/doc/lsof$ head -n5 copyright
21:03.32Robot101This package was debianized by Jim Mintha jmintha@debian.org on
21:03.32Robot101Sat, 15 May 1999 22:50:27 +0200.
21:03.32Robot101It was downloaded from ftp://vic.cc.purdue.edu/pub/tools/unix/lsof
21:03.44qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/lsof/lsof-41/lsof/00CREDITS
21:04.01timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: :)
21:04.10timeless_mbpdo you see me in that list?
21:04.13*** join/#maemo BBNS_ (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
21:04.18qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: Yep :)
21:04.52timeless_mbpsite:www.opensource.apple.com + :)
21:05.48*** join/#maemo digitalstimulus (n=digitals@cpe-071-077-144-145.nc.res.rr.com)
21:06.04*** join/#maemo felipec (n=felipec@a91-153-253-80.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
21:06.36timeless_mbptries to figure out how to package this stuff
21:06.54timeless_mbpis there anything wrong with me first having a package in maemo-extras-devel as non-free
21:06.59timeless_mbpand then having a later version in free ?
21:07.25sjgadsbyThe distant screaming you hear is me running from the "Which is better, a widget or a shortcut?" discussion on Talk.
21:07.45lcuksighs
21:08.08rangesjgadsby: A swidgecut!
21:08.13GeneralAntillessjgadsby, nice place, Talk.
21:08.19qwerty12_N810sjgadsby: You're too calm a moderator. Release the anger within...
21:09.01Stskeepshttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=371541&postcount=130 <- noone can claim they're getting ignored by nokia now
21:09.04Stskeeps;p
21:09.19kalikianatoliosso has no way to tell me if an application is running - that's a pity :-(
21:09.38LiraNunahahaha
21:10.01*** join/#maemo Milhouse (n=irc_milh@dsl-217-155-26-150.zen.co.uk)
21:10.11qwerty12_N810They only want him for the free N900s :(
21:10.42*** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
21:10.44GeneralAntillessjgadsby, I vote for more pro-active culling.
21:11.29timeless_mbpkalikianatoli: pidof?
21:11.32sjgadsbyWith qwerty12_N810's "release your rage" suggestion in mind, the "So who will get it first" poll takes on much more fun possibilities.
21:14.28wazdhttp://s15.radikal.ru/i189/0911/55/50ed1b9913d0.png <- how's that?
21:14.59GeneralAntilleswazd, description should go above authors
21:15.06GeneralAntillesDownloads should probably be moved under the rating.
21:15.19GeneralAntillesand I'd just drop the "Description:" heading.
21:15.28kalikianatolitimeless_mbp, I would have wanted an osso_something function, for when my app is called from a terminal.
21:15.35*** join/#maemo holydevil (n=holydevi@122.167.84.222)
21:15.35*** join/#maemo holydevil_ (n=holydevi@122.167.84.222)
21:15.42timeless_mbpkalikianatoli: *shrug*
21:15.44timeless_mbpi'm a hacker
21:15.47timeless_mbpmy gui is perl+zenity
21:15.52kalikianatoliheh
21:15.58wazdwhy it *should* go above the authors?
21:16.37*** join/#maemo rdorsch (n=rd@p5B203974.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
21:16.41wazdinstall near "close" button - fail :)
21:16.51timeless_mbpwazd: maybe put the stars in the left column?
21:16.55*** join/#maemo ad-n770 (n=somebody@24.Red-80-26-22.staticIP.rima-tde.net)
21:16.56LiraNunait looks fine imo
21:17.13LiraNunait's green, it's easy to blindly click
21:17.19qwerty12_N810wazd: Is this for danielwilms' app?
21:17.20timeless_mbpare the stars live or an indicator?
21:17.29GeneralAntilleswazd, because nobody cares who wrote it.
21:17.38*** join/#maemo ferdna (n=ferdna@cpe-24-92-112-49.elp.res.rr.com)
21:17.48lardmananyone knows if there are any tricks needed to get decent alsa output on the N900?
21:17.49timeless_mbpi'd rather downloads and stars be in a column together
21:17.52timeless_mbp(stacked)
21:17.54timeless_mbpprobably the left one
21:18.37wazdtimeless: http://s47.radikal.ru/i117/0911/f7/85d231bf13d4.png <- that's why stars are on the right (ignore the bottom bar)
21:19.02fiferboyI'm famous!
21:19.20wazdGeneralAntilles: you don't have to scroll for description because of that authors row, so basically it's not harming, and some author promotion is good too btw
21:19.26wazdfiferboy: :D
21:19.34GeneralAntilleswazd, depends on how long the description is. :)
21:19.39qwerty12_N810fiferboy: Grr, it's called Talk now, not "ITT forums" :p
21:19.47GeneralAntilleswazd, and the key is still putting the more useful information first
21:19.50GeneralAntillesNOBODY cares who wrote it
21:19.52RST38hwazd: why not make stars vertical? :)
21:19.56GeneralAntillesand even fewer will recognize those names.
21:20.03fiferboyqwerty12_N810: It's nostalgic
21:20.07GeneralAntillesSo putting USELESS information first is backwards.
21:20.09wazdRST38h: diagonal, anyone? :D
21:20.15*** join/#maemo serenity (n=serenity@p4FC69767.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
21:20.18fiferboywazd: In a circle
21:20.33serenitya installation went wrong. How can i reset dpkg?
21:20.53wazdRST38h: well, it will look like a single coloumn of stars in the list view
21:21.02lcukRST38h, ewww
21:21.35lcukwazd, i once had idea to do hot or not and let app pics move left or right in a grid
21:21.39lcukleft was blue cold
21:21.43lcukright was hot red
21:21.47lcukyou just adjust x pos
21:22.10wazdGeneralAntilles: well, maybe you're right
21:22.22GeneralAntilleswazd, of course I'm right. :P
21:23.11wazdGeneralAntilles: but again, it's not that important cause you don't need to scroll
21:23.20GeneralAntilleswazd, sure it is.
21:23.25GeneralAntilleswazd, this is only a single case
21:23.26lcukis the author info available in the offline metadata HAM uses?
21:23.30GeneralAntillesThere are applications with much longer descriptions.
21:23.36lcuki know this is the online one
21:23.42serenitynoone an idea?
21:23.49GeneralAntillesand your setup breaks sooner in those cases for no reason.
21:23.58GeneralAntillesOther than "Because this is how I decided to do it first"
21:24.08lcukserenity, dunno, but dpkg is the same here as everywhere else
21:24.13lcukgeneric dox should help
21:24.16lcukin same way
21:24.32serenitylcuk: yeah, but how to obtain a console?
21:24.59lcukgo2shop, give cashier money, she will give you a console
21:25.27lcukwhat stage is the system stuck in
21:25.29wazdGeneralAntilles: any examples of 7-row long description? :)
21:25.34lcukfor you to not just open a console
21:25.47matt__sudo gainroot : requires RD ... how do I set RD?
21:25.57lcuklong descriptions can just extend
21:25.57Stskeepsinstall 'rootsh'
21:26.06lcukand for the rarity it occurs the layout can adjust surely
21:26.14Stskeepswonders who decided to put the usb plug where it is.
21:26.16serenitylcuk: i installed a tool, but installation ended in the middle. After that, no catalogues are available and i can't add any
21:26.37*** join/#maemo ayanes (n=Heheh@hoasnet-fe30dd00-156.dhcp.inet.fi)
21:26.40lcukso whats all this about a console?
21:26.46greenflyStskeeps: someone who wanted to give any 3rd-party dock engineers a hard time?
21:27.05serenitylcuk: i want to repair it
21:27.09Stskeepsgreenfly: for that purpose it isn't actually in a bad place
21:27.28greenflyStskeeps: depends on whether you'd want the dock to also access the headphone jack
21:27.28lcukwazd
21:28.04lcukwhere do you show descriptions
21:28.07lcukin that layout
21:28.29Stskeepsgreenfly: mm.
21:29.19lcukhow do i tell the media scanner to only extract metadata from the filename of movies and mp3s
21:29.26lcukbecause i dont care about the stuff inside
21:29.41lcukand so it doesnt lockup everytime i drop another few tv episodes on
21:30.10lcuksorry, not lockup - slow down
21:30.10greenflyuses trackerd so if you can tweak it, it would be like you'd tweak trackerd on an ubuntu machine
21:30.11*** join/#maemo gunni_ (n=quassel@xdsl-213-196-230-70.netcologne.de)
21:30.24lcuki use windows xp :)
21:30.33lcukwell, until my computer arrives
21:31.01greenflyI would imagine that you might have to wait until someone provides some configuration interface into it, then
21:31.30lcuknods
21:31.36lcukits all complex linuxy stuff
21:31.46lcuki might have a play with the db
21:31.49lcukits only sqlite
21:32.48*** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@stgt-5d84b9ff.pool.mediaWays.net)
21:32.56greenflylcuk: I see some people mentioning that the tracker daemon has a pre-set list of directories it scans
21:32.57*** join/#maemo cure` (n=cure@rzavelli.demon.nl)
21:33.16lcukyeah, but it treats different filetypes differently
21:33.22greenflyit might be possible to put media you don't want it to scan in a hidden directory, but then you also would have to use the file browser to access it
21:33.31lcuklike windows has some evil thing for its searing
21:33.33lcuksearching
21:33.43lcukyeah greenfly, thats kinda not the point
21:33.48lcuki want it accessible from media player
21:33.57lcukbut it doesnt need to scan the entire damn file
21:34.07lcukor whatever it appears to be doing
21:34.14lcukit warns me its gonna be 10 mins or something
21:34.22*** join/#maemo tkharju (n=tkharju@84-253-212-193.satp.customers.dnainternet.fi)
21:34.32lcukinstead of a 5 second file list refresh
21:34.43qwerty12_N810lcuk: I had 23 minutes last time :-)
21:34.47lcukand for my purposes everything is catalogued in folders anyway
21:34.52*** part/#maemo tkharju (n=tkharju@84-253-212-193.satp.customers.dnainternet.fi)
21:34.56Ceron^lcuk: hello!
21:35.11greenflylcuk: if there is a solution, it'll be found in tweaking what trackerd does and doesn't do
21:35.14lcukhola Ceron^ !
21:35.21greenflybut not sure how to do that currently
21:35.28Ceron^lcuk: got anything new under development?
21:35.33lcukyeah greenfly ill find out one day
21:35.39lcukalways Ceron^
21:35.44lcukwell, apart from today
21:35.48lcukwhen i havent got an sdk
21:35.58lcuki somehow managed to destroy gtk
21:36.01lcukbut kept clutter running
21:36.07lcukso the ui looks "interesting
21:36.09wazdhttp://s51.radikal.ru/i131/0911/c5/f69e05f11fc1.png
21:36.25lcukgotcha wazd
21:36.38lcuknow, if omweather had another couple of lines
21:36.44lcukwould it be the end of the world to show em
21:36.50lcukand drop the next icon start down a bit
21:37.04GAN900wazd, there you go. Though I still think the downloads should go near the stars.
21:37.19lcukmissaw lol
21:37.34wazdGAN900: again, any button near close cross = fail :)
21:37.39*** join/#maemo jayabharath (n=a0866114@nat/ti/x-dzwyrtjximiqfoxj)
21:37.44wazdGAN900: especially the most important one
21:38.24lcukmove cross to bottom left :P
21:38.26wazdlcuk: what icon?
21:38.37*** join/#maemo panaggio (n=panaggio@200-158-190-234.dsl.telesp.net.br)
21:38.37lcukits ok you are now showing a detailed view
21:38.40zaheermlcuk, the tracker on n900 uses gstreamer to extract the metadata from video and audio files
21:38.42*** join/#maemo saltsa_ (i=aunola@xdsl-179-131.nblnetworks.fi)
21:38.44lcuki thought you were showing the list with descriptions in
21:38.57lcukzaheerm, well it could just use the filesystem
21:39.05*** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (n=timeless@host-137-163-20-203.edu.hel.fi)
21:39.07lcuktheres no meta data worth extracting from my 350mb videos
21:39.17*** join/#maemo _cheerios (n=_cheerio@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff20c000-252.dhcp.inet.fi)
21:39.36Ceron^what about
21:39.38Ceron^google maps!!!
21:39.41Ceron^for n900
21:39.45zaheermlcuk, it doesn't read all 350MB of your files :)
21:39.51Ceron^isnt it available yet :(
21:40.02lcukit takes 9 minutes to update meta data on 6 new files
21:40.03qwerty12_N810google.co.uk/maps
21:40.09lcukit must be doing something drastic
21:40.14Ceron^qwerty12_N810: that doesnt help me at all
21:40.18zaheermlcuk, well that is a bug!
21:40.25Ceron^qwerty12_N810: no gps support
21:40.25zaheermlcuk, you should file it
21:40.25*** join/#maemo gomiam (n=magao@84.79.25.26)
21:40.27*** part/#maemo serenity (n=serenity@p4FC69767.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
21:40.28Ceron^lame :(
21:40.36qwerty12_N810Ceron^: oh, sorry: google.fi/maps
21:40.38pwnguinCeron^: my assupmtion is that google is leaving it android only
21:40.43zaheermCeron^, n900 came out today, give google a chance to support it :P
21:40.46lcuki would if i had a publicly accessible url to share
21:40.59pwnguinzaheerm: did it?
21:41.02lcukie an example video
21:41.03qwerty12_N810Ceron^: Although, Maemo Mapper is being ported to Fremantle
21:41.03Ceron^zaheerm: well one would think n900 has been in googles hands for sometime now
21:41.07pwnguinwell ill be damned
21:41.08timeless_mbpCeron^: you can install geolocation for microb
21:41.13timeless_mbpit's available as an addon
21:41.19timeless_mbpi need to poke the google gears people
21:41.37timeless_mbpwazd: hey
21:41.39zaheermCeron^, no clue
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21:41.42*** join/#maemo holydevil__ (n=holydevi@nat/yahoo/x-wxkglxiosusnhudl)
21:41.42timeless_mbpinstead of buttons on the bottom
21:41.45timeless_mbpcan you use icons
21:42.01timeless_mbpa bug icon, stars, a word bubble, and a package-plus
21:42.14*** join/#maemo Som (n=som@ppp91-76-238-126.pppoe.mtu-net.ru)
21:42.17wazdtimeless_mbp: maybe, but I'm too lazy do draw'em now :D
21:42.29timeless_mbpwazd: add it to your to consider list?
21:42.32wazdtimeless_mbp: I thought icons can be good for portrait mode
21:42.47timeless_mbpthe reason to use it for landscape is that icons are fixed width
21:42.49wazdtimeless_mbp: it's already there :)
21:42.51*** join/#maemo JamieBennett1 (n=JamieBen@5ac884f4.bb.sky.com)
21:42.56timeless_mbptext varies by locale
21:42.58timeless_mbpand can easily suck
21:43.11timeless_mbpthere's a reason we only have 2 columns for buttons in general
21:43.25wazdtimeless_mbp: yep, I agree, but I really wanted to show basics :)
21:43.28timeless_mbpicons can suck regionally (nokia manages to do that on windows, very impressive)
21:43.46timeless_mbpbut generally for your target audience, icons will win
21:44.04timeless_mbpwazd: is this a replacement package manager?
21:44.17*** join/#maemo geaaru (n=geaaru@95.232.227.185)
21:44.46wazdtimeless_mbp: http://danielwilms.wordpress.com/2009/10/21/download-client-for-applications-in-extras/
21:45.03Milo-hmm, will n900 be able to import s60v3 calendar, phonebook and sms's? with bluetooth?
21:45.50timeless_mbpMilo-: sometimes/usually
21:45.55wazdtimeless_mbp: not sure if I have that little self-respect to work on package manager for maemo 5
21:46.06Milo-timeless_mbp sounds fun :P
21:46.31*** join/#maemo JamieBennett2 (n=JamieBen@5ac884b9.bb.sky.com)
21:46.41timeless_mbpi used pcsuite/pcsync to push my n81/e61i to outlook
21:46.48timeless_mbpand then used activesync to pull to my n900
21:47.20Milo-you already have one? :o
21:47.32timeless_mbpi've already loaned out 2
21:47.36*** join/#maemo phnom (n=phnom@h-234-178.A189.priv.bahnhof.se)
21:47.40timeless_mbpand arranged to loan 2 others
21:47.47timeless_mbpbut... i work for nokia on the browser...
21:47.53Milo-ah, I see
21:48.20Milo-According to a rumour said by someone, Nokia started delivering the phones to the stores today in Finland
21:48.34Milo-shall see if I get a notification this week \o/
21:49.05*** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
21:49.19*** join/#maemo crashanddie_ (n=crashand@SecuraBit/listener/crashanddie)
21:51.03wazdMilo-: it's not a rumor
21:51.12wazdMilo-: it's oficcial :)
21:51.14Milo-I know, found an article from kauppalehti
21:51.18wazdofficial*
21:52.25Milo-hmm is N97 and N900 technically the same device, but with different OS?
21:52.33Stskeepsno
21:52.33cehtehno
21:52.42Milo-okay, they seem very similiar
21:52.46GAN900wazd, um, button?
21:52.58*** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
21:53.11GAN900Downloads the statistic is a button? . . . .
21:53.35wazdGAN900: what? :)
21:53.53timeless_mbpiirc n97 is omap2
21:53.56timeless_mbpand n900 is omap3
21:55.02GAN900timeless_mbp, some Samsung something or othefr ARM11
21:55.51GAN900Milo-, other than being vaguely the same shape and both phones they really aren't similar in hardware or software.
21:56.12Milo-well, software is a no-brainer
21:56.17GAN900Nokia hasn't used an OMAP2 in anything in forever.
21:56.19Milo-different OS says it all
21:56.36GAN900Milo-, the N900 is AT LEAST twice as fast.
21:56.47Milo-sounds like marketing talk
21:57.02GAN900Significantly faster than that in certain cases.
21:57.13Milo-gibber jabber
21:57.13GAN900Milo-, no, those are hard numbers.
21:57.17timeless_mbpthe n810 was omap2, right?
21:57.31*** join/#maemo penguinbait (n=mlewis@c-98-209-247-133.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
21:57.37*** join/#maemo Firebird (n=Firebird@pool-138-88-201-253.res.east.verizon.net)
21:57.40GAN900Milo-, but clearly you're not interested in learning anything so I wont waste my breath.
21:57.47GAN900timeless_mbp, yes.
21:57.49timeless_mbpwonders how short GAN900's forever is
21:57.55GAN900OMAP2420
21:58.11GAN900Well, in the ARM11 timeframe.
21:58.19Milo-GAN900 I am, but 'AT LEAST twice as fast' is gibberish, it's never true, as far as benchmarking goes
21:58.29StskeepsMilo-: it is remarkably faster than omap2.
21:58.46GAN900They moved on to non-TI SoCs really quickly.
21:58.48timeless_mbpMilo-: comparing processor classes is pretty much impossible
21:58.49wazdMilo-: it's twice as fast in WORST cases
21:58.55cehtehwonders how much faster maemo is in comparsion to android .. the VM there is quite good, but its still a vm
21:59.01wazdMilo-: like "oh, it was bad day" and so on
21:59.11Stskeepscehteh: i multitask 24 windows without slowdown.
21:59.21cehtehon android?
21:59.25Stskeepsno, maemo.
21:59.39Stskeepsand thats not even as intense as other people's attempts
21:59.39cehtehwell i asked about a comparsion :)
21:59.44Stskeepsi don't use android. :P
21:59.58timeless_mbpcehteh: buy a bunch and let us kbow
22:00.04timeless_mbpbe sure to document use cases in detail
22:00.08cehtehhaha donotwant
22:00.10kynkystuff optmized fo the jvm will be fast, its the stuff that isnt thats slow i thought
22:00.18timeless_mbps/its/it's/
22:00.20kynkyso it depends
22:00.26timeless_mbpbut actually
22:00.32timeless_mbpif they're using a hotspot or similar
22:00.34GAN900jvms are never 'fast'
22:00.40timeless_mbpthen unoptimized doesn't necessarily mean it'll be slow
22:00.45timeless_mbpit might just be big to download
22:00.51*** join/#maemo simula (n=mark@209.189.194.130)
22:00.57timeless_mbpdoesn't know anything about android's vm
22:00.59kynkytey can be, for instance on arm can do native jit on chip i think
22:01.31*** part/#maemo simula (n=mark@209.189.194.130)
22:02.09kynkyand if jvm is loaded in memory then loading an app into memory could be lower disk io, than a bigger c++ app, with its loader etc
22:02.10zaheerm-lpmauku is not open source?
22:02.30zaheerm-lp"You are NOT allowed to modify or redistribute the source code" in the source
22:02.48lardmanre
22:03.00kynkyall apples and oranges, benchmarks can be fiddled , but generally i would say maemo is faster than android, how much by, depends what your doing
22:03.02zaheerm-lpthere goes the patch i was going to write :)
22:03.12*** join/#maemo saltsa___ (i=aunola@xdsl-179-131.nblnetworks.fi)
22:03.50timeless_mbpit can
22:03.50timeless_mbpbut e.g. maemo has no java support at all
22:03.50timeless_mbpand it's not usually jit
22:03.50timeless_mbpso much as actually *running* java bytecode
22:03.50timeless_mbpthat's not really jit
22:03.51timeless_mbpunless you count bytecode to microcode as jit
22:03.53timeless_mbpand i've never met anyone who does
22:03.54timeless_mbpor did
22:03.58timeless_mbpkynde: if one is lucky one can optimize ld to not suck
22:04.02timeless_mbpbut if a c++ app shares libraries w/ another (running) c++ app, it can get a similar win
22:04.04timeless_mbpso that's not really a useful statement
22:04.06timeless_mbpbesides, maemo is C based, not c++ based :)
22:04.08timeless_mbp(ignoring the browser)
22:04.10timeless_mbpor at least maemo1-maemo5
22:04.13timeless_mbpthe future is open ;-)
22:04.13kynky:)
22:04.14timeless_mbpjust a useless point, the n97 supports flash lite 3
22:04.17timeless_mbpthe n900 supports flash 9.4
22:04.18timeless_mbpthere's a huge difference
22:04.21timeless_mbpask a guy i met last week from MTV
22:04.35timeless_mbpzaheerm: byte code patch the source and make the customer rebuild it :)
22:04.44*** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
22:05.03zaheerm-lptimeless_mbp, :)
22:05.03kynkyyou can do tricks in both java/jvm and c
22:05.36Shapeshifterin any case, you want to code in python.
22:05.38Shapeshifteryes you do.
22:06.10GAN900zaheerm-lp, he open sourced it a long time ago, I thought.
22:06.37*** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@a83-132-63-129.cpe.netcabo.pt)
22:06.54qwerty12_N810GAN900: He's made the source available, yes, but looking at the dates and that notice, I would not say it is "open"
22:07.28zaheerm-lpyah open source doesn't mean providing source code
22:08.47kynkyother way around ?
22:08.56lcukbug 6108 added :)
22:08.57povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6108 tracker takes cpu and time when scanning media
22:09.21dmj726heh.
22:09.28timeless_mbplcuk: it should take NO time at all to scan media?
22:09.37dmj726WHy isn't mauku open source?
22:10.04*** join/#maemo crashanddie__ (n=crashand@cpc1-lewi1-0-0-cust192.bmly.cable.ntl.com)
22:10.10zaheerm-lpso question is why is mauku in maemo extras free not non-free?
22:10.12dmj726I know what the definition of OSS is and all that, but why release the code and not FOSSify it?
22:10.16lcuktimeless, i scan the same filesystem completely recursively and build up trees of data based on filename extremely quickly
22:10.21crashanddie__gents, any specific reason why an SD card wouldn't mount (n900) ?
22:10.31crashanddie__It appears in dmesg
22:10.33lcukit takes a few seconds
22:10.35zaheerm-lpdmj726, no clue really, unless he wants to prevent fragmentation
22:10.35lcuknot 9mins
22:10.40lcukdunno crashanddie
22:10.52cehtehno filesystem?
22:10.59timeless_mbplcuk: so...
22:11.06timeless_mbpwe've discussed file system layout
22:11.12timeless_mbpthe problem is that it's kinda hard to deal w/
22:11.21dmj726I really wouldn't worry about fragmentation, since it won't happen unless the original project is swirling the drain.
22:11.28timeless_mbpin order for it to work, you have to have meta data in the fs explaining which algorithm you use for organizing your media
22:11.33crashanddie__http://slexy.org/view/s21hsDMHrq
22:11.44lcuktimeless, im not looking for a generic fix
22:11.50zaheerm-lpdmj726, i am only speculating for the author, i have no clue
22:11.55lcukthis is something a user will know, no computer can detect it
22:11.57lcuki know that
22:12.06lcukbut i would like to help tracker.
22:12.24dmj726zaheerm-lp: Did you see my mockups?
22:12.25lcukmy movies and music is sorted and categroised by folder alone
22:12.25timeless_mbplcuk: tracker would need to let you tell it so that it could write a file
22:12.35timeless_mbpotherwise it'd bother you each time you swapped between 2 cards
22:12.40zaheerm-lpdmj726, re: video editor?
22:12.43dmj726yes
22:12.52timeless_mbplcuk: but basically, if you want to do that
22:13.02zaheerm-lpdmj726, can you provide me with the link again
22:13.02timeless_mbpi suggest you work out a format and a patch for tracker upstream
22:13.02lcuktimeless, config file? gconf? tracker itself does different things based on filetype
22:13.08lcukit already knows what kind of scan to run
22:13.15lcukcant i just change the type of scan
22:13.15timeless_mbplcuk: it needs to be tied to the specific card
22:13.19lcukto just be file
22:13.21VDVsxhumm, does anyone here tested/saw this app in the testing queue: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/free42/  ?
22:13.25lcukno
22:13.26lcukits not
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22:13.31timeless_mbpwhat happens if i give you a card w/ my media
22:13.35dmj726original: http://imagebin.org/71044
22:13.35dmj726next: http://imagebin.org/71163
22:13.40lcukin windows, i can change the scan type for "*.C" files
22:13.48lcukso that it can do full text search in it
22:14.02lcukwithout the change, windows search in files completely bypasses the .c files
22:14.13lcuki want to do the inverse
22:14.16lcukand ignore movies
22:14.22lcukor rather, the content of
22:14.47zaheerm-lpdmj726, can you explain the different colours?
22:14.53timeless_mbplcuk: i'm suggesting a tactic that is likely to work
22:14.59timeless_mbpif you get code into upstream which does what i suggest
22:15.08ShapeshifterAre there zsh and screen for the n900?
22:15.12timeless_mbpthen it's unlikely nokia would actively break it when that arrived in a future product
22:15.17timeless_mbpit might not be the default
22:15.19timeless_mbpbut it'd probably work
22:15.28dmj726zaheerm-lp: let's move this to #pitivi, okay?  Too noisy here.
22:15.30timeless_mbpand someone could write an app which let you write out those config files
22:15.41timeless_mbphttp://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=2917&idPhone1=2615
22:15.42timeless_mbpfwiw
22:15.45lcuktheres no need to touch my media
22:15.50lcukthis is tracker config only
22:15.58timeless_mbplcuk: again
22:16.00lcukif a new filetype comes out *.wiggly
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22:16.04timeless_mbpwhat happens when i give you an sdcard
22:16.14lcuki scan it by filename
22:16.20crashanddie__is there any manual command I could issue to mount the card?
22:16.25timeless_mbpthe sdcard has media i arranged according to some stupid algorithm which doesn't match yours
22:16.26lcukcos thats how i see it, its not a harm, its me looking
22:16.30lcukso
22:16.32lcuki get that now
22:16.36timeless_mbpcrashanddie: mount -t vfat /dev/...
22:16.45crashanddie__timeless, that's my point, which /dev?
22:16.48*** join/#maemo GuySoft (n=guysoft@93-173-109-10.bb.netvision.net.il)
22:17.14timeless_mbpwell, /dev/mmcblk0p1 is the MyDocs volume
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22:17.26crashanddie__ok, found it
22:17.37crashanddie__http://slexy.org/view/s21hsDMHrq
22:17.38crashanddie__damn
22:17.38crashanddie__no
22:17.40crashanddie__wrong cp
22:17.50timeless_mbpwhich was actually in your output :)
22:18.13crashanddie__yeah but the output is confusing
22:18.20crashanddie__because it says mmcblk0, when really it's mmcblk1
22:18.38timeless_mbpwiat
22:18.47timeless_mbpis this your MyDocs volume
22:18.50timeless_mbpor the external card?
22:18.50crashanddie__no
22:18.53crashanddie__external card
22:19.02timeless_mbpiirc someone mentioned a bug about that
22:19.17timeless_mbpglad to meet it :)
22:19.26timeless_mbpsighs
22:19.32timeless_mbpthese guys @gsmarena are wrong
22:19.44timeless_mbp> PhonebookPractically unlimited entries and fields,
22:19.49timeless_mbpthat's not true, the number is roughly 50
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22:22.01lcuko_O
22:22.03lcukhttp://linux.die.net/man/5/tracker.cfg
22:22.14kalikianatolitimeless_mbp, I suspect not so many people have contacts with 50 or more fields anyway :P
22:22.17lcukNoIndexFileTypes=FILEGLOB[;MORE;FILEGLOBS...]
22:22.17lcuk<PROTECTED>
22:22.24lcuk:D
22:22.33lcukgoes find out how to configure
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22:25.24timeless_mbpkalikianatoli: not the point
22:26.33AksuHi! What database I should use for c++ development. I prefer an object-oriented one
22:26.43timeless_mbphey
22:26.46mikkov__VDVsx: it's still possible to upload anything to maemo.org/downloads
22:26.54timeless_mbpAksu: don't.
22:27.10timeless_mbpcan someone please tell me precisely which games are *actually* included in the shipping n900 42-11 image?
22:27.23GeneralAntillescrashanddie, find us a firmware image.
22:27.56Aksutimeless_mbp: eh
22:28.14timeless_mbpdatabases are typically SQL based
22:28.29timeless_mbpunless you really want a database which is not SQL based, you should think about why
22:28.45timeless_mbpbindings for SQL are available for most languages for most specific engines
22:29.38ShapeshifterAksu: well, if I'm not mistaken there are frameworks which access SQL databases but represent data as objects inside your app. I don't know about c++, but python for example has sqlalchemy which does that.
22:29.40cehtehsometimes regrets this sqlism
22:29.58Shapeshifterit's called an "ORM"
22:30.00kalikianatoliAksu, sqlite is preinstalled, and it's quite nice for apps
22:30.07cehtehwhy not datalog ... :P
22:30.07Shapeshifterso there are ORMs for c++ for sure as well.
22:30.27Aksutimeless_mbp: I am thinking about writing app for maemo for schools database-class. They would like it to be using oo- or xml-database
22:30.37lcuklist of non relation database systems (not maemo specific) some might be available and interest folks.
22:30.40lcukhttp://spw.etherpad.com/7?
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22:30.51ShapeshifterAksu: seems like DTL is something you might want.
22:31.15ShapeshifterAksu: but... what timeless_mbp said.
22:31.40timeless_mbppersonally, i'd call xmldb "pain"
22:31.52timeless_mbpbut i'm a browser engineer, xml = pain
22:32.53timeless_mbpanyway. if you went w/ sql, i'd suggest sqlite
22:33.03timeless_mbpit's simple, and there are bindings for most platforms
22:33.24timeless_mbpof sql db's, i think it's the one gaining the fastest atm
22:33.34timeless_mbpbut it's typically used in process, not for large server apps
22:33.44timeless_mbpif that matches your goals, it's probably not a bad choice
22:33.51timeless_mbpit really depends on what you're modeling
22:33.55timeless_mbpand how you intend to use it
22:33.59timeless_mbpi don't actually like sql fwiw
22:34.21timeless_mbpbut, some of the alternatives are worse, and considerably less useful as knowledge portability goes
22:34.28timeless_mbp(well, most of them are actually)
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22:34.56Aksuit would be a simple (disc)golf resultkeeper
22:34.57VDVsxmikkov_, so it seems :(
22:35.00fralsafter doing a db in xml, sql is a godsend
22:35.10VDVsxX-Fade, We need you!!!!
22:35.17VDVsxcome back soon :P
22:35.30realitygapshating nokia for making him use windows for the first time in years
22:36.38Aksuwell is there hibernate like technology for this
22:36.46Aksu(hibernate for java)
22:37.09GeneralAntillesrealitygaps, hopefully the FIASCO image will be out in a few days.
22:37.44timeless_mbprealitygaps: why do you need windows?
22:37.47timeless_mbpto grabb the image?
22:38.58Aksuor maybe it would be enough to write a databasemanager-class that gives out objects for some search parameters
22:39.46Aksu(or forget about this and take the easy route :)
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22:40.36AksuShapeshifter: I'll check DTL
22:42.19realitygapstimeless_mbp: to use the nokia software updater
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22:50.59timeless_mbprealitygaps: but why use it?
23:01.07crashanddie__timeless, around?
23:01.45*** join/#maemo pinchartl (n=Laurent@91.176.145.65)
23:01.46pinchartlhi
23:01.57crashanddie__hi pinchartl
23:02.13*** join/#maemo elninja_ (n=r@adsl-76-208-49-15.dsl.sbndin.sbcglobal.net)
23:02.21crashanddie__GeneralAntilles, around?
23:03.20*** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (n=timeless@a88-115-8-36.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
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23:07.19pinchartlis the N900 officially available ? maemo.nokia.com seems to say so, but I was supposed to receive a notification by e-mail
23:07.47Stskeepsshipping to stores
23:08.13pinchartlI hope they will ship fast :-)
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23:13.52lardmananyone know if librest.so.0.6.1 would be considered newer than librest-0.6.so.0.0.0?
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23:17.55crashanddie__lardman, yes
23:18.05lardmanhttp://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-sharedlibs.html section 8.6.3
23:18.06crashanddie__lardman, actually, they might not be considered as the same lib
23:18.11lardmanhow does that make any sort of bloody sense
23:18.12lardman?
23:18.20*** join/#maemo BBNS (n=bbns@4.59.55.30)
23:18.23lardmancrashanddie: cool
23:18.34lardmanlibz 1 zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.3)
23:18.42lardmanwhere does the zlib1g stuff come from
23:18.43lardman?
23:18.45lardmanmadness!
23:19.35lardmancrashanddie: yeah that's true, and fine by me
23:21.29*** join/#maemo cure` (n=cure@rzavelli.demon.nl)
23:21.48*** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net)
23:22.38pupnik_haha
23:23.16pupnik_that librest-0.6.so.0.0.0 looks badly named
23:24.03timeless_mbpheh
23:24.09timeless_mbpit should be librest0.so.0.6.0
23:24.10lardmanyeah
23:24.15timeless_mbpwho owns it
23:24.16lardmanI took it from debian like that
23:24.18lardmanme
23:24.29lardmanam about to name is something more sensible
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23:26.31limepianyone in here know about apple BT keyboards?
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23:29.29javispedroman, google street view is creepy
23:30.01*** join/#maemo jeremiah (n=jeremiah@c83-248-143-10.bredband.comhem.se)
23:30.07limepiwhat does "device resources exceeded" mean
23:30.45*** join/#maemo Milhouse (n=irc_milh@dsl-217-155-26-150.zen.co.uk)
23:30.56timeless_mbplimepi: sounds like bluetooth
23:31.09timeless_mbpthe protocol basically says "ouch, i'm exhausted"
23:31.13limepiyeah, I'm trying to pair my apple BT keyboard
23:31.25timeless_mbplimepi: btw, if you're using English, please try my locale
23:31.26jeremiahHappy birthday frals
23:31.28timeless_mbpgoes to fix something
23:31.32limepiI updated some time ago and it quit working, I tried to troubleshoot
23:31.41fralsthanks :)
23:31.46limepimy locale?
23:31.52limepilike, the proper layout?
23:32.48timeless_mbpactually
23:33.00timeless_mbpi just saw a non lame onscreen keyboard today (tuesday)
23:34.28limepiso you're telling me that I have no recourse, essentially?
23:34.42timeless_mbpwell
23:34.46timeless_mbpi just got on
23:34.47*** join/#maemo jeremiah_ (n=jeremiah@c83-248-143-10.bredband.comhem.se)
23:34.53timeless_mbpso i missed the context
23:35.07timeless_mbpin general, you're supposed to get rid of other BT devices that are paired to it
23:35.54limepiI've never had anyone do a BT troubleshoot walkthrough
23:36.17*** join/#maemo jeremiah_ (n=jeremiah@c83-248-143-10.bredband.comhem.se)
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23:37.16timeless_mbpwell, i'm the wrong person
23:37.20timeless_mbpi'm a translator
23:37.29timeless_mbpso i've read all the strings and tried to understand them
23:37.32tbftimeless_mbp: maemo5 has more C++ apps than just the browser
23:37.42timeless_mbpyou really want jhe
23:37.52timeless_mbptbf: part of mail is c++ too
23:37.52limepihmm
23:38.06timeless_mbpbut most of the platform isn't
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23:38.19timeless_mbpactually, maybe that's wrong
23:38.27timeless_mbpsince half the platform is built around the browser :)
23:38.39timeless_mbp(tutorial, messaging, maps)
23:39.32tbftimeless_mbp: even EDS got polluted with this C++ crap!
23:39.35javispedromessaging? O.o
23:39.49timeless_mbpthe renderer for messaging is a browser engine
23:40.02timeless_mbpafaik the rest of messaging is C
23:40.18timeless_mbpbut if you consider the fact that it's rendered by the browser, then... you can't not acknowledge C++
23:41.59tbftimeless_mbp: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/evolution-data-server/addressbook/libebook-dbus/e-uchardet.cpp?revision=715&root=eds&view=markup
23:42.18timeless_mbptbf: oh yeah, that's a gecko file :)
23:42.20*** join/#maemo kynde (n=ircman@193.64.14.218)
23:42.39*** part/#maemo limepi (n=hex@76-76-226-118.lisco.net)
23:42.47timeless_mbpwell...
23:43.31tbftimeless_mbp: well, just the glue for some gecko code
23:43.34*** join/#maemo crashanddie__ (n=crashand@host86-148-19-131.range86-148.btcentralplus.com)
23:43.48tbftimeless_mbp: the gecko code is there: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/evolution-data-server/libuchardet/?root=eds
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23:48.33tbftimeless_mbp: btw, do you know a better method than BrowserRespView to get a pannable browser widget in Maemo5?
23:48.57timeless_mbpsorry, ask romaxa
23:49.04tbfromaxa: ^^^?
23:49.05timeless_mbpi'm effectively upstream
23:49.09timeless_mbpit's ~2am
23:49.18timeless_mbphe left the office probably by 6pm or so
23:49.23timeless_mbpwe left after 11pm
23:49.58javispedrook, there's now a clear photograph of my shorts hanging out in google earth.
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23:50.04tbftimeless_mbp: ok.
23:50.04jaemhey folks
23:50.15tbfjavispedro: hope the are clean
23:50.18javispedros/earth/street view
23:50.28jaemI just picked up my (loaner) N900, and it won't charge :S
23:50.40jaemis there anything special that I should know about that?
23:50.44javispedrotbf: they are black (fortunately ;) )
23:50.47lardmanjavispedro: big shorts!
23:50.49tbfjaem: you have to use the nokia charger
23:50.56sp3000that /sounds/ like what you might want, but then I barely ever read code :)
23:50.58jaemtbf, oh really?
23:51.04jaema generic USB charger won't work?
23:51.08lardmanI know you can see the Great Wall of China and all... ;)
23:51.16javispedrothis is fuckingly scary
23:51.18tbfjaem: generic chargers usually only give 500 mA
23:51.21javispedrolardman: street view
23:51.32jaemtbf, this one is rated for 1A
23:51.34lardmanah ok :)
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23:52.00tbfjaem: hmm. strange. maybe just on paper.
23:52.11jaemtbf, I'll dig out my other charger
23:52.14tbfjaem: i once tried a cheap generic charger, and it even discharged the battery
23:52.27jaemmy prof had misplaced one of the Nokia chargers, so I don't currently have one >_<
23:53.14cehtehtbf: so the n900 cant be charged at a laptop usb port?
23:53.25sp3000it can
23:53.33cehtehi was wondering already
23:53.37sp3000although I think the results may be interesting if the laptop goes to sleep
23:53.40cehtehthat would be scary
23:53.45tbfcehteh: your laptop usually is a much better power source
23:53.53timeless_mbpso the n900 box had a nokia to usb adapter
23:53.55cehtehmy laptop provides usb power when sleeping
23:54.02timeless_mbpwhich should let you use older nokia style chargers
23:54.11sp3000(some)
23:54.18cehtehtbf: nop it give a kernel errror "overcurrent on usb" ..
23:54.23tbfcehteh: so unless you watch videos you can charge it with your laptop. you'll just have to wait for a while
23:54.27timeless_mbpstandard usb cables will allow 500mA if you're giving a usb service to a host
23:54.36timeless_mbpchargers will typically offer 1-1.2mA
23:54.45cehtehyeah ok
23:54.47timeless_mbpi'm pretty sure that in general a 1A charger should work, but i've never tried
23:55.05tbftimeless_mbp: no. typical usb chargers really just give 500 mA
23:55.12timeless_mbpreally?
23:55.14timeless_mbpyuck
23:55.22cehtehusb is rated 500ma
23:55.28tbftimeless_mbp: once forgot my nokia charger and tried to buy an adequate charger
23:55.45cehtehone of the major faults imo .. they should have rated it 2A and fine
23:55.50tbftimeless_mbp: shop owners looked for the hidden camera when i told them that i need about 1A
23:55.54timeless_mbp"1 Amp High Output USB travel charger"
23:56.01timeless_mbptbf: lol
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23:56.23timeless_mbpi think the apple usb chargers are 1A
23:56.27timeless_mbpoh!
23:56.32jaemodd
23:56.38timeless_mbpi tried charging my n900 using a car's onboard port
23:56.41jaemmy other 1A charger doesn't work, either
23:56.43timeless_mbpwhich works for an iPhone
23:56.45timeless_mbpand it didn't work
23:56.49timeless_mbpit claimed to be charging
23:56.51timeless_mbpbut didn't charge
23:56.54timeless_mbpthat was odd :(
23:56.55jaemthe indicator isn't doing anything
23:56.59jaemI'll doublecheck lshal
23:57.20jaemnope - not charging
23:57.40cehtehthought about charging from bike dynamo :P
23:57.53tbfcehteh: do you have a link for the 500 mA
23:57.56cehtehneeds some elektronic of course
23:58.47cehtehtbf: actuall its even worse i think 50 (or only 20) mA are allowed without arbitation .. anyhing beyond has to be negotiated with the host controler
23:58.48lardmanhmm, my new librest looks like so: librest.so.0.0.0
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23:58.50jaemtbf, a standard Nokia USB cable should work, right?
23:58.55lardmanso closer, but still no cigar
23:59.46tbfcehteh: would be awesome to show it some lazy PM
23:59.48*** join/#maemo kynde (n=ircman@193.64.14.218)
23:59.59tbfcehteh: he closed a bug about his software consuming > 600 mA, as invalid and asked for the spec :-D

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