| 00:01.13 | zerojay | So to convert a regular microUSB cable into something that will charge, both data lines must be cut, correct? |
| 00:01.24 | *** join/#maemo shdb (n=shdb@217-162-129-64.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 00:01.24 | zerojay | Charge in a wallcharger, I mean. |
| 00:01.56 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it, short the D lines |
| 00:02.10 | SpeedEvil | but I'd want to read the spec first again to make sure that's right |
| 00:06.44 | zerojay | Yeah, please do. :) |
| 00:07.19 | timeless_mbp | i kinda suspect we want you guys to return your loaners in working condition |
| 00:07.27 | timeless_mbp | and preferably heavily used for the life of the loan ;-) |
| 00:07.56 | pupnik_ | i kind of suspect the program is a bust |
| 00:08.01 | pupnik_ | and a bad investment for nokia |
| 00:08.10 | pupnik_ | because no easy bugreporting mechanism was implemented |
| 00:08.15 | timeless_mbp | um |
| 00:08.19 | timeless_mbp | bugs.maemo.org isn't easy? |
| 00:08.23 | pupnik_ | right |
| 00:08.29 | timeless_mbp | shrugs |
| 00:08.33 | pupnik_ | right |
| 00:08.36 | *** join/#maemo etrunko (n=edulima@189.115.171.122) |
| 00:08.37 | timeless_mbp | the bust side has more to do w/ management |
| 00:08.43 | timeless_mbp | and certain leads |
| 00:08.50 | timeless_mbp | is considering blogging about one of them |
| 00:08.55 | timeless_mbp | since he's a nice public figure |
| 00:09.16 | pupnik_ | i kind of suspect the lacking easy bug report with context of n900 loaner units was a big mistake |
| 00:09.23 | pupnik_ | which the maemo bug guys made |
| 00:09.33 | zerojay | pupnik_: It doesn't get much easier than Bugzilla, honestly. |
| 00:09.42 | pupnik_ | wrongly |
| 00:09.46 | pupnik_ | want bet |
| 00:10.09 | zerojay | Show me a bug tracker that has just as many features and is easier. |
| 00:10.14 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (n=wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 00:10.36 | pupnik_ | redefining the problem is an old trick which does not play with pupnik zerojay |
| 00:10.58 | *** join/#maemo Anwarboy11 (n=aneesanw@78.148.206.18) |
| 00:11.10 | *** join/#maemo jmc93739653 (n=jmc93739@74-33-26-210.dsl1.mond.mn.frontiernet.net) |
| 00:11.12 | pupnik_ | what is the score? |
| 00:11.21 | pupnik_ | what is the number of new bugs since summit for fremantle |
| 00:11.24 | zerojay | pupnik_: It's not redefining anything. You say that our bug reporting mechanism isn't easy enough and I want to know what you're comparing that to. |
| 00:11.25 | Anwarboy11 | Can somone help me coding in maemo? |
| 00:11.56 | pupnik_ | zerojay: it's simple - allow users to submit bugs without manuall entering all the relevant context info |
| 00:12.04 | timeless_mbp | ? |
| 00:12.05 | Anwarboy11 | i have no coding knowledge where do i start what do i need? |
| 00:12.14 | timeless_mbp | pupnik_: you can fill in as little info as you like |
| 00:12.17 | pupnik_ | Anwarboy11: start coding on your pc |
| 00:12.22 | zerojay | pupnik_: Um... if they don't need to enter it, the info isn't relevant. |
| 00:12.24 | Anwarboy11 | lol |
| 00:12.30 | Anwarboy11 | pupnik |
| 00:12.30 | timeless_mbp | the more info you provide the easier it is for your bug to be understood and fixed |
| 00:12.42 | zerojay | pupnik_: All that info is needed for fixing the bugs.. otherwise you might as well be posting "it doesn't work, fix it". |
| 00:12.42 | pupnik_ | right, and most of that info is known to device |
| 00:12.46 | timeless_mbp | someone a while ago filed a bug against the browser |
| 00:12.48 | Anwarboy11 | can you advice me on what language i should learn first ....C perhaps? |
| 00:12.52 | timeless_mbp | but provided such terrible info |
| 00:13.06 | ifreq | Anwarboy11: english is a good starter |
| 00:13.09 | cleary_ | pupnik_: the downside to a "simple" bug tracking interface, is the signal to noise ratio turns to poo |
| 00:13.10 | timeless_mbp | that i had to twist my head around a couple of times to determine what the person was experiencing |
| 00:13.22 | Anwarboy11 | lol |
| 00:13.28 | pupnik_ | the general n900 audience is not skilled with bugzilla |
| 00:13.29 | Anwarboy11 | who said i don't know english |
| 00:13.39 | timeless_mbp | pupnik_: so you'd rather file your bug using the device instead of using your desktop computer? |
| 00:13.40 | *** join/#maemo JackBeSlow (n=The@c-75-74-225-102.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 00:13.42 | pupnik_ | wake-up call to timeless_mbp and Jaffa and et al - it is 2009 |
| 00:13.43 | zerojay | pupnik_: Show us where there's a simpler bug tracker out there that you've used that's just as feature complete as Bugzilla and we'll be glad to adopt it, I'm sure. |
| 00:14.01 | pupnik_ | no zerojay what about adding a n900 link |
| 00:14.02 | Anwarboy11 | can someone please tell me where to start if i want to learn how to code apps for the n900 |
| 00:14.04 | cleary_ | getting the right balance of, just difficult enough to filter out the noise, and not too hard so as not to deter people who can provide good reports, is extremely difficult |
| 00:14.04 | ifreq | Anwarboy11: jk |
| 00:14.05 | pupnik_ | that submits relevant info |
| 00:14.17 | pupnik_ | very nice to see cleary_ here |
| 00:14.17 | zerojay | sighs. |
| 00:14.24 | timeless_mbp | hey, is samantha who worth watching? |
| 00:14.28 | cleary_ | Anwarboy11: it's just not that simple |
| 00:14.48 | Anwarboy11 | yh i know, but what help can you give me i dont know where to start |
| 00:14.53 | cleary_ | Anwarboy11: can I suggest you grab a book called "Dive into python" |
| 00:14.55 | *** join/#maemo promulo (n=romulo@189.71.122.184) |
| 00:15.01 | pupnik_ | heh why do i bother here, i got better contacts |
| 00:15.10 | JackBeSlow | Anwarboy11, http://maemo.org/development/ would be a good place to start. What are you looking to develop? |
| 00:15.11 | Anwarboy11 | python ok.. what about C |
| 00:15.19 | cleary_ | Anwarboy11: if you've never programmed before, python is a nice language to start with |
| 00:15.22 | Anwarboy11 | i thought that's the one used in maemo more |
| 00:15.26 | cleary_ | C, not so much |
| 00:15.27 | Anwarboy11 | hmm ok |
| 00:15.32 | Anwarboy11 | python it is |
| 00:15.39 | Anwarboy11 | anything else |
| 00:15.47 | cleary_ | good luck |
| 00:15.50 | Anwarboy11 | is it possible to run the maemo sdk on windows |
| 00:16.04 | JackBeSlow | Not that I know of |
| 00:16.20 | Anwarboy11 | ok i must use my pendrive ubuntu |
| 00:16.38 | Anwarboy11 | how much of python do i need to learn? |
| 00:16.54 | JackBeSlow | Anwarboy11, be warned the scratchbox dev environment takes up a lot of room. |
| 00:17.07 | cleary_ | Anwarboy11: that's not a question that can be answered |
| 00:17.11 | Anwarboy11 | im sure a 32 gb pendrive is big enuf? |
| 00:17.21 | Anwarboy11 | hrmm i suppse |
| 00:17.23 | JackBeSlow | Anwarboy11, Depends on what you want to do, there are a lot of code examples around, mostly for C though. |
| 00:17.42 | cleary_ | Anwarboy11: you learn the basic structures of the language, then you find a problem you want to solve, then you learn |
| 00:17.48 | Anwarboy11 | after learning some python how would i imploy that into the maemo |
| 00:18.23 | cleary_ | Anwarboy11: after you've learnt some python, the step from python to C is much smaller |
| 00:18.39 | Anwarboy11 | oh ok |
| 00:18.49 | zerojay | pupnik_: If we were allowed to post bugs to Bugzilla before Summit, there would have been a TON of them already filed... but NDAs so we couldn't. Also, if there's not a lot of bugs being filed on Fremantle (which I haven't checked is true or not)... it kind of fits in with my own frustration on the lack of thumbs up in m.o/packages/. |
| 00:18.49 | cleary_ | Anwarboy11: you get the source code for programs you like, or have similar functionality to something you want to do |
| 00:18.53 | Anwarboy11 | so i shud learn them both before start coding for maemo |
| 00:18.56 | pupnik_ | hm |
| 00:18.58 | cleary_ | Anwarboy11: and you read and understand |
| 00:19.03 | Anwarboy11 | kk |
| 00:19.15 | Anwarboy11 | the only bit of programming ive done is basic html |
| 00:19.36 | zerojay | pupnik_: I guess the same answer I heard when I complained about the lack of thumbs up would apply to Bugzilla as well: we're busy on our own stuff. |
| 00:19.38 | pupnik_ | zerojay. we just gotta help make linux win the mobile device war |
| 00:19.44 | pupnik_ | tell me what to do |
| 00:20.05 | Anwarboy11 | anyone know what the new uk release for n900 is , on mobilephonesdirect? |
| 00:20.21 | Anwarboy11 | i preorderd on there and was sad to knw i have to wait longer |
| 00:20.25 | JackBeSlow | zerojay, That seems to kind of defeat part of the purpose of giving devs loaner devices. I figured that there would be tons of bugs filed and fixed thanks to the loaners before they ever made it to stores. |
| 00:20.35 | zerojay | pupnik_: I feel the same way. |
| 00:20.40 | pupnik_ | Anwarboy11: whatever, just get one. they are really nice. |
| 00:20.51 | zerojay | JackBeSlow: Yeah, that's kind of my reaction too. |
| 00:20.58 | Anwarboy11 | hell yh, im getting one ....when theyr released... |
| 00:21.00 | JackBeSlow | Anwarboy11, no idea |
| 00:21.01 | SpeedEvil | Anwarboy11: the nokia store says mid nov |
| 00:21.22 | Anwarboy11 | i emailed the mpd 2wice before today and they said 30th october |
| 00:21.33 | Anwarboy11 | i presume theyl say somit else to the email i sent today |
| 00:22.23 | Anwarboy11 | anyway ill be back tomoz with a book of python ! thanks 4 the advice? |
| 00:22.29 | Anwarboy11 | cya guys |
| 00:22.41 | zerojay | pupnik_: I know you're enthusiastic and you're passionate and want to make Linux succeed and stuff like Bugzilla probably feels like a stumbling block to you and brings out your frustrations. I understand that. |
| 00:22.50 | *** part/#maemo Anwarboy11 (n=aneesanw@78.148.206.18) |
| 00:23.02 | JackBeSlow | zerojay, there are a million ways they could have solved that, one of the simpler ways being have a login required bugzilla page that only goes open when the NDA expires. |
| 00:23.21 | zerojay | JackBeSlow: It's not quite that simple. |
| 00:23.37 | JackBeSlow | :( It never is. |
| 00:23.48 | zerojay | And I doubt anyone in Nokia wanted to wade through pages of perl to do it. |
| 00:23.54 | zerojay | Believe me, I was pissed about that. |
| 00:24.04 | pupnik_ | i am just going to take n900 to everyone i know |
| 00:24.08 | pupnik_ | and shove it in their face |
| 00:24.17 | pupnik_ | look! |
| 00:24.18 | SpeedEvil | Or is did |
| 00:24.29 | zerojay | pupnik_: Everyone I know that's seen it has had lust in their eyes. |
| 00:24.35 | pupnik_ | same |
| 00:24.49 | pupnik_ | i need new image so i can impress the girls zerojay |
| 00:25.11 | pupnik_ | lol |
| 00:25.15 | pupnik_ | no it's true |
| 00:25.59 | JackBeSlow | It seems to me that feminine interest is inversely proportional to the coolness of the gadgets one owns. |
| 00:26.33 | zash | And from which part of the world are you? |
| 00:26.39 | zash | Japan? |
| 00:26.48 | JackBeSlow | US |
| 00:26.58 | cleary_ | ladies love the gadgets |
| 00:27.06 | cleary_ | so long as the gadget does something they like |
| 00:27.16 | cleary_ | ...and that's where I encounter my issues ;) |
| 00:27.18 | zerojay | Dude, if only I wasn't married my N900 would have gotten me laid so many times. lol |
| 00:27.30 | JackBeSlow | more importantly something they deem as useful and worth the creation of a gadget. |
| 00:27.48 | zerojay | They were flipping out about the integrated IM and SMS. |
| 00:28.12 | zerojay | And that facebook chat was coming soon. |
| 00:28.25 | JackBeSlow | When I explain that I can remotely control my computer via VNC with my 770 most girls scoff. |
| 00:28.29 | cleary_ | is being sent to sleep by zerojay |
| 00:28.31 | cleary_ | ;) |
| 00:28.35 | zerojay | lol. |
| 00:28.50 | cleary_ | I'm busting to see a quassel irc port for it |
| 00:28.53 | zerojay | As soon as I said "facebook chat", everyone was like "I NEED THAT NOW." |
| 00:28.59 | JackBeSlow | lol |
| 00:29.10 | JackBeSlow | but the iphone does that right? |
| 00:29.12 | cleary_ | I've run the bog standard one on mer |
| 00:29.14 | zerojay | No. |
| 00:29.21 | JackBeSlow | ah |
| 00:29.21 | zerojay | iphone has no built-in IM. |
| 00:29.29 | cleary_ | +n810 |
| 00:29.29 | zerojay | And it can't run more than a single user app at a time. |
| 00:29.33 | JackBeSlow | No but you can facebook chat via facebook. |
| 00:29.41 | zerojay | Yeah, but it's terrible. |
| 00:29.47 | JackBeSlow | makes sense. |
| 00:30.12 | zerojay | When I showed them the full site up... Youtube running... they were floored. |
| 00:30.19 | zerojay | "AND it's a phone too?" |
| 00:30.39 | JackBeSlow | I would love to be logged into all of my chat clients (as long as I can set up the appropriate invisible and ignore settings) at all times on my phone. |
| 00:31.03 | cleary_ | JackBeSlow: kopete is probably closest to handling that |
| 00:31.38 | zerojay | JackBeSlow: Invisible isn't supported and status is set across all clients at once. |
| 00:31.48 | JackBeSlow | Heh, for now I use skype and kopete and then have a browser window open. |
| 00:31.48 | pupnik_ | our job is to make maemo rule the world |
| 00:31.56 | pupnik_ | our job is to be the heroes of history |
| 00:32.19 | pupnik_ | and to promote the wedge that will enable human freedom vs the global government |
| 00:32.31 | zerojay | I went to the Rogers below my work in my building and asked them for a battery for the 5800... didn't have any and I said "it's not the same phone but compatible." |
| 00:32.36 | zerojay | Anyways, I go back up to work. |
| 00:32.37 | pupnik_ | i'm leading here, but just believe it |
| 00:32.39 | JackBeSlow | So up until I saw one of the promotional videos for the n900 I have been pronouncing Maemo May-Mo |
| 00:32.46 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik_, http://tinyurl.com/yguj5po |
| 00:32.51 | zerojay | A few hours later, the sales guy from Rogers was at our work door. |
| 00:32.54 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik_, now kindly get over it re: Bugzilla. |
| 00:33.01 | pupnik_ | ty GeneralAntilles |
| 00:33.09 | pupnik_ | no i wont |
| 00:33.14 | pupnik_ | because i'm right as always |
| 00:33.19 | pupnik_ | but you will get used to that |
| 00:33.21 | zerojay | "Hi... you said you had a phone compatible with the 5800... but there's only one, the n900." |
| 00:33.27 | zerojay | "Yes. And?" |
| 00:33.34 | zerojay | "... Can I see it?" |
| 00:33.38 | GeneralAntilles | :roll: |
| 00:33.53 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik_, the system's not perfect, but we're working on it. |
| 00:33.57 | zerojay | My boss looked at me and goes "...go ahead and sell him on it." |
| 00:34.22 | zerojay | The guy knew where to find me because my company used to make cell games, so we always were dealing with the Rogers downstairs. |
| 00:34.25 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik_, the whole "Bugzilla sucks and you guys suck and the system sucks" isn't a productive way to be "right". |
| 00:34.37 | MaceN8x0 | haha |
| 00:34.43 | pupnik_ | no i make specific suggestions GeneralAntilles |
| 00:34.55 | pupnik_ | maybe we can actually implement? |
| 00:35.05 | MaceN8x0 | sure it is |
| 00:35.25 | zerojay | pupnik_: What we really need to do is upgrade Bugzilla because a lot more customization options become available to us. |
| 00:35.33 | *** join/#maemo fiferboy (n=quassel@dhcp-0-13-10-77-bf-c5.cpe.mountaincable.net) |
| 00:35.37 | zerojay | Think it's still 2.x |
| 00:35.41 | GeneralAntilles | Hey, who woulda guessed. People are working on that! |
| 00:35.43 | pupnik_ | how about one link for "i am a n900 prototype user" that fills in relevant fields |
| 00:35.43 | SpeedEvil | Or simply take video bugs |
| 00:35.49 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik_, ditch the attitude. |
| 00:35.50 | zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Yep, I know. |
| 00:35.52 | GeneralAntilles | It's not helpful. |
| 00:36.00 | pupnik_ | GeneralAntilles: my attitude is just ignorance |
| 00:36.06 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik_, clearly. |
| 00:36.13 | MaceN8x0 | so when is the n900 being released? |
| 00:36.14 | pupnik_ | but that is often a signal |
| 00:36.17 | *** join/#maemo frade_ (n=ivan@pc-130-46-161-190.cm.vtr.net) |
| 00:36.18 | MaceN8x0 | next year? :) |
| 00:36.26 | GeneralAntilles | MaceN8x0, November. |
| 00:36.30 | pupnik_ | a signal that something could use work |
| 00:36.53 | pupnik_ | right let me put it another way |
| 00:37.03 | pupnik_ | i have a bugreport for n900 prototype |
| 00:37.07 | GeneralAntilles | zerojay, rcadden is such a creeper. |
| 00:37.08 | MaceN8x0 | in 2010 we were supposed to be on manned missions to jupiter according to hollywood |
| 00:37.12 | pupnik_ | it would take me 4 minutes to type in the text |
| 00:37.12 | zerojay | GeneralAntilles: lol |
| 00:37.28 | pupnik_ | if i go to bugzilla, i have to spend an afternoon learning it |
| 00:37.39 | pupnik_ | that is a barrier to the point of bugreporting |
| 00:37.43 | GeneralAntilles | zerojay, that stupid frat-boy face he has in his avatar sums him up really well. |
| 00:38.41 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik_, so you're saying it shouldn't ask you to provide info? |
| 00:38.51 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik_, how in the world will anybody be able to fix the bug then? |
| 00:38.54 | pupnik_ | the info that is known should not be entered manually |
| 00:38.58 | pupnik_ | capiche? |
| 00:39.01 | pupnik_ | you are not stupid |
| 00:39.05 | pupnik_ | do not pretend to be so |
| 00:39.11 | GeneralAntilles | But that info isn't known. |
| 00:39.16 | GeneralAntilles | OK, you have an N900 proto |
| 00:39.18 | pupnik_ | it is on device |
| 00:39.21 | GeneralAntilles | What software version are you running? |
| 00:39.27 | pupnik_ | all versions of everything are known |
| 00:39.39 | GeneralAntilles | So you want a Bugzilla front-end in GTK? |
| 00:39.43 | JackBeSlow | Gah, I hate to see devs fight. |
| 00:39.49 | GeneralAntilles | isn't a dev. |
| 00:39.50 | pupnik_ | we are not fighting |
| 00:39.54 | MaceN8x0 | haha |
| 00:39.56 | cleary_ | ^ that would be handy |
| 00:40.00 | JackBeSlow | GeneralAntilles, Actually that would be nice... |
| 00:40.02 | zerojay | JackBeSlow: Haw haw. ;P |
| 00:40.08 | zerojay | There are bugzilla frontends. |
| 00:40.16 | MaceN8x0 | youre ruining halloween for the family!! |
| 00:40.17 | GeneralAntilles | zerojay, they're all worse than the web front end. |
| 00:40.32 | GeneralAntilles | cleary_, it'd be great, but finding the people with time to implement that is a problem. |
| 00:40.42 | zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Not all... but I doubt anyone wants to pay cash for their copy. |
| 00:40.49 | pupnik_ | zerojay: i think the number of bugs from the program indicates a problem, maybe i am wrong. i think there should be a simpler way to report bugs with context. |
| 00:40.56 | GeneralAntilles | zerojay, fair enough, I've never seen any paid ones. |
| 00:40.57 | JackBeSlow | but one on the n900 that could autofill a lot of the fields... I mean it should not be the normal way of entering bugs, but it would be cool. Especially for an end user. |
| 00:41.04 | cleary_ | GeneralAntilles: cause they're all busy learning the bugzilla webfrontend |
| 00:41.07 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik_, 399 aint bad by my book. |
| 00:41.09 | cleary_ | :P couldn't resist |
| 00:41.21 | zerojay | pupnik_: Number of bugs from what program? |
| 00:41.33 | GeneralAntilles | cleary_, we've got a guided submission form that's still waiting to be made live. |
| 00:41.33 | pupnik_ | 399? |
| 00:41.38 | pupnik_ | GeneralAntilles: got a link? |
| 00:41.38 | JackBeSlow | cleary_, Oh come on, it is not THAT complicated. |
| 00:41.40 | GeneralAntilles | For people without can-confirm. |
| 00:41.48 | pupnik_ | i can be totally wrong here |
| 00:41.49 | cleary_ | haha - settle down, I was joking |
| 00:41.56 | zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Oh yes, I remember timeless was going to implement that quite a while ago. |
| 00:41.56 | JackBeSlow | lol |
| 00:41.58 | cleary_ | pupnik_'s the serious one ;_) |
| 00:42.11 | zerojay | pupnik_: The guided bug entry thing is exactly what you're looking for. |
| 00:42.18 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik_, about 10 minutes ago. |
| 00:42.21 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik_, the tinyurl link. |
| 00:42.30 | GeneralAntilles | http://tinyurl.com/yguj5po |
| 00:42.52 | zerojay | GeneralAntilles: I think he means the guided bug entry. |
| 00:43.00 | pupnik_ | thanks |
| 00:43.13 | GeneralAntilles | Um, yeah, I end up needing that to show somebody once every 3 months or so |
| 00:43.27 | GeneralAntilles | but I can never remember the URL format and never bother to save it when I find it. |
| 00:44.04 | GeneralAntilles | Ah, here it is. https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=browser&format=guided |
| 00:44.04 | pupnik_ | i have totally failed to communicate |
| 00:44.09 | pupnik_ | ah well, happens |
| 00:44.51 | pupnik_ | you should have 300 "this doesn't work" reports for each bug |
| 00:44.53 | zerojay | pupnik_: That look better to you? It's still not n900 specific but... |
| 00:44.56 | cleary_ | pupnik_: as I understand it, your point is that if you are submitting the bug on-device, there is a lot of bugzilla info that can be auto completed |
| 00:44.57 | pupnik_ | ty |
| 00:45.04 | pupnik_ | right |
| 00:45.07 | pupnik_ | exactly cleary_ |
| 00:45.15 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik_, I'd sure hope not, then I'd have to kill a lot of people for filling dupes. |
| 00:45.20 | cleary_ | pupnik_: the problem I see with that is: |
| 00:45.25 | pupnik_ | bug on specific device, specific release, provide link for speficic group |
| 00:45.40 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik_, what if you're filing a bug from the device about another release? |
| 00:45.44 | GeneralAntilles | has done that a few times. |
| 00:46.10 | pupnik_ | sigh |
| 00:46.11 | GeneralAntilles | You need to select an item from one dropdown and add a version string to the comment field in the form. |
| 00:46.15 | GeneralAntilles | That's not 4 minutes of work. |
| 00:46.19 | pupnik_ | yes that would not apply |
| 00:46.44 | pupnik_ | hi, i would like to eat ice cream, how does that reflect your pad thai sales |
| 00:47.11 | cleary_ | how much of that information is presented by your browser? |
| 00:47.23 | GeneralAntilles | 59 reporters. |
| 00:47.49 | JackBeSlow | GeneralAntilles, did you happen to develop for the Zaurus back in the day? |
| 00:47.51 | GeneralAntilles | cleary_, useragent strings are automatically added to the bottom of the comment field. |
| 00:47.58 | GeneralAntilles | JackBeSlow, I never owned a Zaurus |
| 00:48.15 | JackBeSlow | I felt like I recognize that nick outside of this channel, aw well guess not |
| 00:48.15 | GeneralAntilles | The 770 was announced before I pulled the trigger on the SL-6000. |
| 00:48.23 | GeneralAntilles | JackBeSlow, likely, I've been around. |
| 00:48.34 | JackBeSlow | GeneralAntilles, But I haven't. |
| 00:48.39 | GeneralAntilles | Newton, AmbrosiaSW, half the Mac forums out there. |
| 00:51.44 | JackBeSlow | cleary_, I think you have a point there. Which is why a dedicated program seems like the only thing that would provide pupnik_ with what he wants. |
| 00:52.57 | MaceN8x0 | hm |
| 00:52.58 | JackBeSlow | I might of set to work on one if I actually owned a n900 right now. |
| 00:53.16 | MaceN8x0 | why cant someone just mod maemo5 for an n810? |
| 00:53.33 | MaceN8x0 | now that there will be gles drivers/libs |
| 00:54.20 | JackBeSlow | I am sure it would be possible with time there have been plenty of HEs released for older devices. I am still running a 770 with 2008 and 2007HE |
| 00:54.29 | cleary_ | JackBeSlow: yeah, that's my point |
| 00:54.29 | zerojay | I think people are overestimating how much performance those drivers will give us. |
| 00:54.58 | cleary_ | JackBeSlow: an option would be a sysinfo style app that outputs in some standardised format which you can give to bugzilla |
| 00:55.34 | GeneralAntilles | MaceN8x0, Mer 0.17 |
| 00:56.00 | MaceN8x0 | GeneralAntilles, heh |
| 00:56.03 | MaceN8x0 | is it out? |
| 00:56.05 | GeneralAntilles | There's a crash reporter that sends coredumps to Nokia. |
| 00:56.11 | GeneralAntilles | MaceN8x0, are the drivers out? |
| 00:56.17 | MaceN8x0 | dont know |
| 00:56.22 | cleary_ | MaceN8x0: I'm running mer on an n810 here |
| 00:56.25 | GeneralAntilles | No. |
| 00:56.28 | MaceN8x0 | know they were supposed to be released soon |
| 00:56.44 | GeneralAntilles | This week supposedly. |
| 00:56.49 | GeneralAntilles | May have been pushed back yet. |
| 00:56.56 | cleary_ | may have misunderstood the context of this mer discussion ;) |
| 00:57.57 | JackBeSlow | cleary_, I have been wanting to check out Mer but I really like my current setup with the 770 and I haven't really been able to find much on Mer as far as applications...and an OS without applications is not useful to me yet. |
| 00:58.33 | MaceN8x0 | JackBeSlow, the ui is very underdeveloped |
| 00:58.36 | cleary_ | JackBeSlow: you have access to ubuntu repos |
| 00:58.40 | JackBeSlow | ah misread what you said thought you were saying you were running Mer on the n810 |
| 00:58.58 | MaceN8x0 | maybe soon it will take a front seat once they are done setting up the base |
| 00:59.11 | JackBeSlow | cleary_, Yeah, but that doesn't mean I will be able to find anything that I can usefully use on a screen that size. |
| 00:59.11 | MaceN8x0 | i have |
| 00:59.23 | cleary_ | JackBeSlow: yeah |
| 00:59.27 | MaceN8x0 | right now i just use maemo4 |
| 00:59.27 | cleary_ | that is an issue |
| 00:59.39 | cleary_ | they've rebuilt some core stuff (qt for example) |
| 00:59.42 | MaceN8x0 | i just wish we could get maemo5 on this thing |
| 00:59.52 | cleary_ | but there's still issues, packaging conflicts and such |
| 00:59.57 | MaceN8x0 | with compass support and an activated death ray |
| 01:00.20 | pupnik_ | why do you care |
| 01:00.28 | pupnik_ | i want people to control their computing devices |
| 01:00.40 | pupnik_ | so the terminator global government will not exterimate us all |
| 01:00.44 | pupnik_ | that's why i like maemo |
| 01:01.54 | pupnik_ | oh sorry, making sense again |
| 01:02.55 | SpeedEvil | relevant xkcd is relevant |
| 01:07.50 | zerojay | pupnik_: Terminator global government? lol wut |
| 01:07.50 | *** join/#maemo cotigao (n=vikram@203.247.145.46) |
| 01:08.46 | pupnik_ | i got lots of links zerojay - sorry for the OT |
| 01:09.02 | *** join/#maemo krutt (n=mk@p4FC32A8D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:09.23 | pupnik_ | but believe me, maemo is good |
| 01:09.45 | pupnik_ | and there is a lot of evil shit |
| 01:10.19 | pupnik_ | we need to get maemo to be fun and awesome |
| 01:10.25 | pupnik_ | and then avail on cheaper phones |
| 01:11.09 | SpeedEvil | Give it 4 years |
| 01:13.32 | GeneralAntilles | By then OMAP3 will be the new S40 platform. ;) |
| 01:13.55 | zerojay | By that time, all mobile chips will be 64-bit. ;P |
| 01:14.11 | zerojay | Multicore monsters. |
| 01:23.14 | *** join/#maemo tonikitoo (n=tonikito@201-75-29-102-ma.cpe.vivax.com.br) |
| 01:24.27 | *** join/#maemo b-man17 (n=b-man17@pool-98-115-64-101.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 01:24.43 | b-man17 | ~seen xnt14 |
| 01:24.48 | infobot | xnt14 <n=xnt14@pool-98-113-71-187.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 21h 27m 52s ago, saying: ':P'. |
| 01:25.09 | *** join/#maemo LB (n=LB@58.108.160.52) |
| 01:25.28 | MaceN8x0 | what kind of webcam type stuff will the n900 have? |
| 01:25.47 | MaceN8x0 | like. a jingle that works with google video? |
| 01:25.57 | MaceN8x0 | instead of the n8x0 letdown |
| 01:27.09 | thp | MaceN8x0: no video calling in the initial firmware release; might come with an update akaik |
| 01:27.59 | *** join/#maemo MaceN8x0 (n=macer@m830736d0.tmodns.net) |
| 01:28.27 | wiretapped | thp: lol wut? |
| 01:28.29 | wiretapped | none at all? |
| 01:28.55 | wiretapped | not even to other maemo devices, like n8x0 shipped with? |
| 01:29.27 | wiretapped | thats it, i'm buying a droid |
| 01:29.56 | wiretapped | (=not really=) |
| 01:30.23 | pupnik_ | what use case is android better-for? |
| 01:30.33 | thp | the first community app to support the front-facing cam is atilla's mirror |
| 01:30.52 | GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, well, it is just v4l2 and Telepathy. . . . |
| 01:31.27 | pupnik_ | being strapped to a NaOH dildo and dragged along an elephant migration? |
| 01:31.27 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik_, people who like being locked into Google's ecosystem. |
| 01:31.27 | pupnik_ | ok |
| 01:31.27 | *** join/#maemo shdb (n=shdb@217-162-129-64.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 01:31.28 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik_, jinx! |
| 01:31.44 | pupnik_ | :) |
| 01:32.15 | pupnik_ | but seriously there must be *something* |
| 01:32.48 | pupnik_ | some awesome reason to strap yourself down with duct tape |
| 01:32.57 | wiretapped | GeneralAntilles: would you believe i know android users who have never made a google account? |
| 01:33.00 | GeneralAntilles | It's the most open thing you can get subsidized. |
| 01:33.01 | wiretapped | it is possible |
| 01:33.02 | GeneralAntilles | It has apps |
| 01:33.09 | GeneralAntilles | It's generally functional for most people. |
| 01:33.37 | wiretapped | from a licensing standpoint, android is a lot more open than maemo |
| 01:33.44 | pupnik_ | oh? |
| 01:33.45 | wiretapped | practically speaking, on the other hand... |
| 01:33.45 | GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, I also know iPhone users who don't have iTunes accounts and user their devices on $NOTAT&T |
| 01:34.07 | pupnik_ | there must be a reason i don't like android. my brain knows it but hasn't told me yet/. |
| 01:34.08 | GeneralAntilles | Their governance model is evil. |
| 01:34.11 | cleary_ | that pretty much accounts for all iphone users I knpow |
| 01:34.25 | pupnik_ | ty GeneralAntilles |
| 01:34.29 | GeneralAntilles | and licensing standpoints don't mean much when Google pulls out the DMCA on hackers. |
| 01:34.48 | wiretapped | yeah |
| 01:34.59 | GeneralAntilles | Open source code doesn't help users if they can't do anything with it. |
| 01:35.04 | wiretapped | but it is possible to use it as a phone with a community-built firmware image |
| 01:35.16 | wiretapped | it remains to be seen how that will work on n900 |
| 01:35.22 | wiretapped | afaik |
| 01:35.27 | GeneralAntilles | Should work fine. |
| 01:35.42 | wiretapped | with what UI? |
| 01:35.47 | wiretapped | isn't lots of nokia's still closed? |
| 01:35.50 | GeneralAntilles | and by "community-built" do you mean Debian or Android with patches? |
| 01:35.55 | wiretapped | i mean android with patches |
| 01:36.00 | GeneralAntilles | Oh, psh. |
| 01:36.01 | wiretapped | but debian too, i guess |
| 01:37.03 | wiretapped | i've been extremely tempated to get an android phone |
| 01:37.18 | wiretapped | i only haven't because i don't like java, or having a google account |
| 01:37.22 | GeneralAntilles | My two biggest issues with Android are the governance model and the fact that they break with standard Linux (no X, no real toolkits, Java, etc.) |
| 01:37.35 | wiretapped | and because i knew maemo5 was coming soon |
| 01:37.43 | GeneralAntilles | Android is just serving to suck developers away from a real Linux platform. |
| 01:37.48 | wiretapped | yeah |
| 01:37.59 | pupnik_ | yeah GeneralAntilles - kind of like an 'application' in your pocket rather than a computer |
| 01:38.00 | GeneralAntilles | One that could actually reduce the fragmentation to a point where it's not killing mobile open source. |
| 01:38.01 | *** join/#maemo dmj7262 (n=david@63.252.67.232) |
| 01:38.16 | wiretapped | linux is just their HAL |
| 01:38.35 | wiretapped | i, too, want a linux + common linux userland phone |
| 01:38.43 | wiretapped | hence my presence here |
| 01:39.19 | Firebird | http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9859/uimock.png Looking a bit more hildon guideline friendly? |
| 01:39.23 | wiretapped | i don't think android is that harmful, its popularity is based on its merits |
| 01:39.31 | GeneralAntilles | "merits" |
| 01:39.53 | GeneralAntilles | It's conned people into believing it's an open platform. |
| 01:40.00 | GeneralAntilles | Firebird, nice. |
| 01:40.06 | wiretapped | that is silly |
| 01:40.08 | GeneralAntilles | Though I'd go with green felt. |
| 01:40.13 | wiretapped | in what way is maemo more open? |
| 01:40.35 | Firebird | GeneralAntilles, for the table? |
| 01:40.40 | wiretapped | i mean, other than it being compatible with desktop linux apps... ;) |
| 01:40.43 | GeneralAntilles | Well, for one, Nokia hasn't issued any DMCA take downs. ;) |
| 01:40.55 | GeneralAntilles | Nokia actually has somewhat open governance. |
| 01:41.19 | GeneralAntilles | Firebird, yes. |
| 01:41.20 | wiretapped | lol |
| 01:41.21 | dmj7262 | Android mostly looks open when compared to iphone's OS |
| 01:41.48 | *** join/#maemo RobertH[AU] (n=robert@203-59-15-129.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:41.59 | GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, see the recent /opt discussion for an (if somewhat embarrassing) example of Nokia's more open governance. |
| 01:42.11 | wiretapped | i'm not familiar |
| 01:42.35 | GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, basically, the architecture was decided between Nokia and the community. |
| 01:42.49 | GeneralAntilles | Same thing for the package categories for h-a-m. |
| 01:42.55 | wiretapped | dmj7262: android looks open when compared to everything else that has shipped (except openmoko..) |
| 01:43.23 | wiretapped | categories schmategories |
| 01:43.37 | dmj7262 | wiretapped: you'll need to amend that statement in november :D |
| 01:43.42 | wiretapped | where can I see nokia's dialer code? |
| 01:43.46 | wiretapped | I'd like to dial |
| 01:44.05 | wiretapped | is it open? I have no idea, but I'm guessing that if it is, it isn't yet |
| 01:44.08 | GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, you don't see Google collaborating with the community like that. |
| 01:44.15 | dmj7262 | I used to be looking really closely at Android until the n900 was announced. |
| 01:44.15 | pupnik_ | we can get bootloaders, kernel modules |
| 01:44.18 | pupnik_ | with maemo |
| 01:44.36 | GeneralAntilles | I consider compatibility with desktop Linux a big factor in openness, too. |
| 01:44.46 | pupnik_ | yes |
| 01:44.53 | GeneralAntilles | Otherwise you're just getting locked into somebody's ecosystem with every line of code you write. |
| 01:45.08 | lcuk | isnt java compatible with desktops? |
| 01:45.22 | wiretapped | pupnik_: are there closed kernel modules on android?! |
| 01:45.29 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, Davlik isn't available for every platform. |
| 01:45.31 | pupnik_ | dunno |
| 01:45.31 | cleary_ | the obvious benefit to desktop linux compatibility is a massive pool of applications |
| 01:45.39 | lcuk | GeneralAntilles, its exactly the same with every decision you make |
| 01:45.46 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, bullshit. |
| 01:45.49 | wiretapped | GeneralAntilles: about nokia DMCA takedowns... his blog is down now, but iirc thoughtfix got one once |
| 01:45.53 | lcuk | if you make your code in gtk, you are just as locked to someone elses path as if you chose .net |
| 01:45.55 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, Qt gets you onto nearly everything out there. |
| 01:46.04 | lcuk | qt might, but its just as locked |
| 01:46.04 | dmj7262 | well, we're sorta getting locked into the maemo ecosystem. |
| 01:46.07 | wiretapped | http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:tabletblog.com/2007/06/whats-youtube-dmca-complaint-like.html |
| 01:46.27 | pupnik_ | wiretapped: if android is good about something, i would like to learn |
| 01:46.31 | pupnik_ | ty |
| 01:46.43 | *** join/#maemo radic (n=radic@p4FDAA0BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:46.50 | lcuk | GeneralAntilles, supposing there was 1 true language, with the perfect api and the perfect filesystem and ran everywhere |
| 01:46.53 | dmj7262 | ...though it wouldn't be hard to rewrite a maemo app for another debian based phone OS |
| 01:46.56 | lcuk | but you werent allowed to eat the apple |
| 01:47.07 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, I can't have these discussions with you. |
| 01:47.10 | cleary_ | lcuk: I dispute that locked argument, for the simple fact that the final step of unlocking an open source app path, is a fork |
| 01:47.23 | cleary_ | you cannot fork closed software |
| 01:47.29 | lcuk | cleary_, we are on about the developer himself |
| 01:47.34 | lcuk | not what others do with it |
| 01:47.42 | lcuk | if i write in gtk, i am locked to gtk |
| 01:47.48 | dmj7262 | ...assuming one made a debian based OS for another phone |
| 01:48.04 | lcuk | i cannot simply choose to change direction half way through and say, you know what - today ill write for iphone |
| 01:48.04 | pupnik_ | if cleary_ is who i think he is, it is great to have him in #maemo |
| 01:48.07 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, point is you write for Android it gets to run on Android, you write for Qt and Maemo and you get to run on Symbian, Windows, Linux, OS X, etc. |
| 01:48.17 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, but GTK can run on lots of platform. |
| 01:48.18 | GeneralAntilles | s |
| 01:48.20 | GeneralAntilles | Which is the whole point. |
| 01:48.24 | lcuk | android runs in linux doesnt it |
| 01:48.31 | lcuk | didnt they announce an ubuntu port? |
| 01:48.35 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, so stop dragging my discussions in weird directions. <_< |
| 01:48.48 | *** join/#maemo buttholio (n=user@c-98-209-247-133.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 01:48.52 | wiretapped | GeneralAntilles: hildon doesn't run a lot of places |
| 01:49.00 | wiretapped | it could |
| 01:49.03 | wiretapped | but so could dalvik |
| 01:49.18 | *** join/#maemo Xisdibik (n=Xisdibik@c-24-5-197-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 01:49.25 | cleary_ | pupnik_: I am who you think I am - I'm here as a spectator for now though :) |
| 01:49.30 | GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, the difference between maemo-gtk and gtk is a lot smaller than Davlik and gtk. |
| 01:49.51 | wiretapped | you mean Dalvik and Java? |
| 01:49.53 | lcuk | will write in WRT :) |
| 01:50.09 | GeneralAntilles | Android doesn't have x, which makes things more complicated. |
| 01:50.22 | lcuk | a normal app should never care about x |
| 01:50.27 | lcuk | qt apps dont |
| 01:50.32 | lcuk | gtk meh shouldnt |
| 01:50.35 | wiretapped | indeed. but that is about choice of open technology, rather than openness |
| 01:50.36 | GeneralAntilles | Anyway, whatever. |
| 01:50.51 | GeneralAntilles | I dislike Android and what it seems to be doing to mobile Linux. |
| 01:50.57 | wiretapped | I personally want a phone with X |
| 01:51.12 | buttholio | must have X |
| 01:51.14 | wiretapped | Lots of people I know want a phone they can hack on without fighting their OS vendor, and don't care about X |
| 01:51.19 | lcuk | the one thing this platform has above all others IS choice |
| 01:51.22 | lcuk | and variety |
| 01:51.29 | lcuk | multiple frameworks coexisting |
| 01:51.51 | cleary_ | I want a root |
| 01:51.53 | wiretapped | about the dialer... does anyone know if that is open? |
| 01:51.55 | lcuk | iphone == the iphone way |
| 01:51.56 | cleary_ | account that I can get easily |
| 01:51.59 | lcuk | droid == the droid way |
| 01:52.03 | lcuk | pre == the preway |
| 01:52.11 | lcuk | maemo == whatever dude |
| 01:52.12 | wiretapped | cleary_: nokia gives you instructions on getting root |
| 01:52.20 | GeneralAntilles | cleary_, http://flors.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/software-freedom-lovers-here-comes-maemo-5/ ;) |
| 01:52.35 | cleary_ | man, none of you have a sense of humour today ;) |
| 01:52.43 | BBNS | to be honest, general public doesn't care about having x or not. they just want to have a usable phone immediately, to allow them twit or play. |
| 01:52.52 | wiretapped | yup |
| 01:52.54 | lcuk | digs up a plant and gives cleary_ root |
| 01:53.14 | lcuk | +1111 |
| 01:53.20 | buttholio | I care more about X and less about phone |
| 01:53.21 | cleary_ | makes chips, but longs for the company of a woman instead |
| 01:53.57 | pupnik_ | an exceptional woman, or a few average ones |
| 01:54.01 | lcuk | butthole i didnt think the phone was important. boy was i wrong! |
| 01:54.08 | BBNS | i have worked with lots of developers. they just want to have fully integrated SDK, and easy to publish their apps, and dream about earning some coins probably. |
| 01:54.35 | pupnik_ | logical preferences BBNS |
| 01:54.42 | lcuk | bbns, weekend devs |
| 01:54.47 | MaceN8x0 | omg |
| 01:54.50 | BBNS | it's like gold rush. |
| 01:55.00 | MaceN8x0 | i hate rain! |
| 01:55.00 | MaceN8x0 | HATE |
| 01:55.00 | lcuk | drive home on friday thinking of an app, have it done by sunday night |
| 01:55.14 | MaceN8x0 | i need to move to a rainless forest |
| 01:55.22 | pupnik_ | and make 30 dollars on it lcuk |
| 01:55.25 | MaceN8x0 | joshua tree doesnt count |
| 01:55.27 | wiretapped | do we know anything about a nokia application marketplace yet? |
| 01:55.30 | BBNS | lcuk: a lot of my friends too. as long as they saw the marketing base. |
| 01:55.43 | GeneralAntilles | Ovi Store |
| 01:55.51 | lcuk | pupnik_, for many the $30 isnt an issue |
| 01:55.56 | lcuk | its the old shareware type days |
| 01:56.08 | wiretapped | So, will the free apps remain in a ghetto elsewhere? |
| 01:56.12 | lcuk | they would finish it, stick it on tape and let friends play |
| 01:56.17 | lcuk | /disk |
| 01:56.23 | cleary_ | pupnik_: tbh, I have an exceptional woman already, so I'll take a few average ones, thanks :) |
| 01:56.40 | wiretapped | If nokia were smart they'd allow free apps to be distributed in the ovi store as name-your-own-price |
| 01:56.43 | wiretapped | the "radiohead model" |
| 01:56.54 | pupnik_ | both for cleary is unfair. overflow to pupnik. |
| 01:56.57 | wiretapped | and compete head to head with $$ apps |
| 01:57.18 | lcuk | wiretapped, why cant i choose the price i sell my software at |
| 01:57.21 | pupnik_ | i prefer dev names rice |
| 01:57.25 | GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, Extras. |
| 01:57.27 | lcuk | the license its under is not important |
| 01:57.32 | wiretapped | lcuk: who said you can't? |
| 01:57.35 | lcuk | if someone wants to get it manually from the repo |
| 01:57.37 | lcuk | thats their choice |
| 01:57.39 | GeneralAntilles | Both will be highlighted with http://maemo.nokia.com/maemo-select/ |
| 01:57.55 | GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, free stuff can go through Ovi. |
| 01:57.58 | GeneralAntilles | But there's no point. |
| 01:58.09 | lcuk | ahhh but can free software have a pricetag |
| 01:58.17 | wiretapped | the point is that their payment infrastructure could handle donations |
| 01:58.26 | wiretapped | lcuk: of course it can |
| 01:58.34 | GeneralAntilles | Hrm, interesting. |
| 01:58.42 | GeneralAntilles | Problem is Ovi is â¬50 |
| 01:58.48 | wiretapped | yeah, that sucks. |
| 01:59.12 | wiretapped | I don't plan to have an ovi account |
| 01:59.19 | lcuk | mmm gen? |
| 01:59.24 | GeneralAntilles | But, Extras will be getting highlighted |
| 01:59.34 | GeneralAntilles | and the systems should be parallel. |
| 01:59.35 | wiretapped | But if I could use it to donate to lcuk and gnuite I might |
| 01:59.36 | lcuk | 50 for an ovi account? |
| 01:59.49 | cleary_ | wiretapped: someone can write that app |
| 01:59.51 | dmj7262 | It would be nice to be able to donate $50 and specify which projects should get a piece of it...nicer than lots of mini transactions |
| 01:59.57 | cleary_ | package manager with a paypal interface |
| 02:00.04 | lcuk | wiretapped, you can do that anyway on liqbase.net :) |
| 02:00.09 | lcuk | dont have to wait :D |
| 02:00.18 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, if you plan on distributing through the Ovi Store. |
| 02:00.31 | dmj7262 | how is that paypal button working out so far lcuk? |
| 02:00.40 | wiretapped | lcuk: I haven't actually used liqbase in months, but sure :) |
| 02:00.44 | wiretapped | I hope you keep it free |
| 02:00.49 | lcuk | its gpl :) |
| 02:00.54 | lcuk | i dont intend closing anything |
| 02:01.42 | dmj7262 | liqbase is like the opposite of the iphone ui, except for being smooth and nicely animated |
| 02:01.42 | lcuk | dmj7262, it got me through a very sticky situation recently. and i really dont know what i would have done if i wasnt a member of such a decent community of people :$ |
| 02:01.43 | wiretapped | sent. |
| 02:02.00 | wiretapped | looking forward to trying liqbase again when i get an n900 |
| 02:02.05 | lcuk | :D thanks you wiretapped |
| 02:02.09 | lcuk | nods |
| 02:02.14 | wiretapped | i actually might get to *use* an n900 this sunday |
| 02:02.23 | lcuk | i am working as hard as possible to integrate everything now |
| 02:02.30 | lcuk | and tidy up the bits i never care about |
| 02:02.31 | wiretapped | someone who works at mozilla is getting a pre-release unit and is going to let me play with it |
| 02:02.33 | lcuk | but you guys do |
| 02:03.00 | dmj7262 | I will likely donate some at some point fter getting my hands on an n900 |
| 02:03.19 | lcuk | after you get hands on n900 we wont head from you |
| 02:03.25 | lcuk | apart from "omgggggggggggggggggg" |
| 02:03.31 | lcuk | hear ^ |
| 02:03.47 | dmj7262 | hehe |
| 02:03.52 | lcuk | wiretapped, where do you work? |
| 02:04.05 | dmj7262 | no, I'll be on irc *from* the n900 :D |
| 02:04.17 | lcuk | sorry if its person, just with you saying someone from mozilla |
| 02:04.22 | lcuk | are you a moz person too? |
| 02:04.24 | wiretapped | no. |
| 02:04.37 | wiretapped | i know him from the local hackerspace |
| 02:04.58 | lcuk | cool |
| 02:05.06 | wiretapped | www.noisebridge.net |
| 02:05.13 | buttholio | lcuk == cool |
| 02:05.44 | wiretapped | where the most popular phone by far is the g1, and several people have n900's on preorder :) |
| 02:05.45 | lcuk | why thank you mr holio |
| 02:06.26 | lcuk | wiretapped, your little hacking group reminds me of the c-base |
| 02:06.41 | buttholio | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:07.00 | buttholio | I think many knew that already |
| 02:07.06 | wiretapped | yeah we're very much inspired by c-base, metalab, et al |
| 02:07.06 | buttholio | heh |
| 02:07.33 | lcuk | very cool |
| 02:08.22 | lcuk | wiretapped, do people shout and complain when some members pull their iphone out |
| 02:08.26 | lcuk | or does no1 dare |
| 02:08.30 | dmj7262 | heh, for some reason your hackerspace makes me think of Little Brother |
| 02:08.36 | wiretapped | no sadly we have some iphone app devs among us :( |
| 02:08.39 | wiretapped | and we accept them |
| 02:08.46 | wiretapped | heh |
| 02:08.48 | lcuk | lol |
| 02:09.21 | dmj7262 | hmmm...n900 as rfid cloner? |
| 02:09.34 | lcuk | mmm which freq are they meant to tx on? |
| 02:09.48 | dmj7262 | would that be possible? |
| 02:09.50 | lcuk | we have radio rx/tx |
| 02:09.57 | lcuk | but it depends on frequency |
| 02:10.30 | dmj7262 | That would be an interesting hack. |
| 02:10.38 | dmj7262 | Anyone read Little Brother? |
| 02:10.42 | wiretapped | lcuk: we don't have that kind of access to the GSM radio do we? |
| 02:11.17 | lcuk | wiretapped, as far as i am aware |
| 02:11.42 | lcuk | the gsm/low level stuff isnt documented and hidden away in a little corner |
| 02:11.45 | lcuk | but i might be wrong |
| 02:11.47 | *** join/#maemo g55 (n=g55@93.135.211.79) |
| 02:11.52 | lcuk | ive seen high level "send sms" functions |
| 02:12.04 | lcuk | but nothing of the low down stuff |
| 02:12.07 | lcuk | and frankly, im glad |
| 02:12.20 | GeneralAntilles | Low level stuff might come with oFono |
| 02:12.20 | lcuk | the mms implementors might know more ;) |
| 02:12.28 | lcuk | yeah gen |
| 02:12.38 | wiretapped | there are some regulatory issues there ;) |
| 02:12.43 | GeneralAntilles | For now it's just an SSI interface with AT commands. |
| 02:12.45 | GeneralAntilles | phonet |
| 02:12.47 | lcuk | you would know :P |
| 02:13.08 | ali1234 | that's all you're ever likely to get |
| 02:13.17 | wiretapped | yep. |
| 02:13.28 | ali1234 | it's definitely all you'll ever get from nokia |
| 02:13.40 | lcuk | liqbase will go active, and all the phones in the world will ring. |
| 02:13.46 | GeneralAntilles | ali1234? |
| 02:13.51 | GeneralAntilles | http://ofono.org |
| 02:14.14 | ali1234 | ofono is a telephony stack |
| 02:14.21 | lcuk | gen, i thought ofono still just spoke to the modem itself |
| 02:14.28 | lcuk | and the modem did the gsm stuff itself |
| 02:14.57 | wiretapped | wow there is a lot inside the GPL box at http://ofono.org/documentation |
| 02:15.57 | wiretapped | but "plug-in" is the giveaway here that the radio bits aren't included |
| 02:16.01 | ali1234 | of course |
| 02:16.15 | ali1234 | the radio firmwares have to be thoroughly tested by the regulatory bodies |
| 02:16.33 | lcuk | i cant wait for the top layer to have "postcards" :) |
| 02:16.37 | *** join/#maemo Flandry (n=quassel@c-71-192-162-102.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 02:17.06 | Flandry | Good evening |
| 02:17.09 | ali1234 | not to mention that the radio is a dsp connected to a fixed function radio chipset, which would be useless for anything other than what it does |
| 02:17.33 | Flandry | Can i ask some newbish questions about packaging? |
| 02:17.50 | lcuk | Flandry, you can certainly try |
| 02:18.00 | ali1234 | kind of like how a wifi card can't pick up dect transmissions even though they're on the same frequency |
| 02:18.27 | wiretapped | ali1234: except for sometimes when those "fixed" radio chipsets are actually SDRs ;) |
| 02:18.30 | dmj7262 | i suppose one could make a bluetooth rfid accessory |
| 02:19.04 | dmj7262 | and use the n900 as the brains to know what to clone and how. |
| 02:19.20 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=rsalveti@189.115.169.179) |
| 02:19.38 | Flandry | cool. I want to make a library available as a package. If the armel target .deb is available from Debian, can i use that in some modified form for Maemo? |
| 02:19.44 | wiretapped | i don't remember which, but i recall hearing a long time ago about an 802.11b card which had a relatively hackable SDR inside |
| 02:19.53 | dmj7262 | Hehe...that's an app that Apple would deny. |
| 02:20.31 | wiretapped | it doesn't seem beyond the realm of possibility that some GSM modems could be too |
| 02:20.45 | ali1234 | they are software defined to an extent |
| 02:21.52 | ali1234 | but not to the point where you can make then transmit arbitrary waveforms |
| 02:22.16 | ali1234 | so technically, they're not SDR at all |
| 02:22.47 | ali1234 | plus the fact that they're locked on to specific frequencies |
| 02:23.20 | lcuk | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:23.20 | lcuk | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:23.20 | lcuk | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:23.20 | lcuk | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:23.20 | lcuk | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:23.42 | Flandry | Maybe a better question is, what is the best process to take libraries avalable on debian and make them available on Maemo? The information on http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging%2C_Deploying_and_Distributing isn't detailed enough for me to figure out. |
| 02:24.06 | lcuk | Flandry, it depends on the library itself |
| 02:24.16 | ali1234 | no, it doesn't |
| 02:24.27 | lcuk | if its got few dependencies and is already debianised |
| 02:24.35 | ali1234 | Flandry: you have to take the source-deb, change a couple of fields in the debian/ dir, and recompile it |
| 02:24.36 | lcuk | rly |
| 02:24.46 | ali1234 | rinse, repeat for deps |
| 02:25.08 | Flandry | ok |
| 02:25.10 | lcuk | yeah but the number of deps can explode |
| 02:25.31 | Flandry | i'm looking at libmikmod |
| 02:25.31 | ali1234 | the number of deps is unlikely to explode unless you're attempting to package something like qt |
| 02:26.09 | lcuk | Flandry, cool! |
| 02:26.24 | Flandry | Being unfamiliar with debiffying in general this is a bit of a curve for me... |
| 02:26.47 | lcuk | what are you wanting to use it for once its here |
| 02:27.01 | lcuk | do you have something concrete in mind, or just as an exercize |
| 02:27.12 | Flandry | I compiled Urquan Masters on the SDK and it runs ok on the simulator, but i had to compile libmikmod to link against first |
| 02:27.54 | Flandry | http://www.urquanmasters.com/ |
| 02:28.03 | *** join/#maemo user_ (n=LHB01@58.108.160.52) |
| 02:28.05 | Flandry | Starcon 2. |
| 02:28.19 | Flandry | Anyway i think it would be good to have on N900 |
| 02:28.24 | ali1234 | great game |
| 02:28.39 | Flandry | i'll look at the source deb for libmikmod and see if i can figure it out |
| 02:28.53 | *** join/#maemo LHB_ (n=LB@58.108.160.52) |
| 02:29.18 | lcuk | Flandry, do you have an n810 too |
| 02:29.20 | ali1234 | Flandry: apt-get build-dep && apt-get source libmikmod |
| 02:29.21 | lcuk | or 800 |
| 02:29.48 | *** join/#maemo vivijim1 (n=vivijim@189.115.168.232.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 02:29.49 | Flandry | no i don't have an IT yet |
| 02:30.06 | *** join/#maemo LHB__ (n=LB@58.108.160.52) |
| 02:30.44 | lcuk | is urquan a gl or glex game |
| 02:30.48 | lcuk | gles |
| 02:31.54 | *** join/#maemo LHB_ (n=LB@58.108.160.52) |
| 02:32.12 | Flandry | it's from 1992 or so i think |
| 02:32.27 | *** part/#maemo LHB_ (n=LB@58.108.160.52) |
| 02:32.31 | Flandry | doesn't really need accelerated gfx |
| 02:32.45 | fiferboy | is almost ready to release his latest app on the community... |
| 02:33.08 | lcuk | oooh fiferboy, what is it ? |
| 02:33.16 | lcuk | Flandry, software 3d? |
| 02:33.22 | lcuk | if so, coool |
| 02:33.24 | *** join/#maemo LHB_ (n=LB@58.108.160.52) |
| 02:33.41 | GeneralAntilles | It's a "Dirty things fiferboy would like to say to your mother" widget. |
| 02:33.57 | Flandry | no 3d, just a really cool scroller |
| 02:34.03 | fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: That will be my next app. Thanks for the idea! |
| 02:34.20 | lcuk | Flandry, i saw on the forum you linked that they were talking about high poly counts |
| 02:34.34 | lcuk | "fiferboys busstop adventures" |
| 02:34.41 | lcuk | or should i say |
| 02:34.54 | lcuk | "personal busstop favours" |
| 02:35.05 | fiferboy | :P |
| 02:35.11 | fiferboy | personal favours indeed |
| 02:35.22 | Flandry | well there are all kinds of mod efforts, but the original game is pretty simple on resources |
| 02:35.44 | Firebird | still thinking of ways to teach ovi/nokia a lesson? |
| 02:36.19 | lcuk | lol fiferboy |
| 02:36.24 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (n=pcfe@a88-115-14-109.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 02:36.27 | lcuk | go on, whats your app |
| 02:36.35 | lcuk | cos im running out of room on my desktop |
| 02:36.39 | fiferboy | Desktop photo frame and slideshow |
| 02:36.50 | fiferboy | lcuk: You know you can have four, right ;) |
| 02:37.29 | lcuk | hahaha bug |
| 02:37.36 | lcuk | i do know i can |
| 02:37.42 | lcuk | i forgot i could turn em off |
| 02:37.50 | lcuk | but in the manage views/active views ui |
| 02:37.56 | lcuk | i dont have an indicator of which im on |
| 02:38.08 | lcuk | so i cant turn "everything but this one" off |
| 02:38.10 | lcuk | its guess work |
| 02:38.20 | lcuk | :O |
| 02:38.28 | lcuk | and if you get it wrong, it vapes your widgets |
| 02:38.52 | lcuk | so my 1 page with widgets where i wanted is now gone! |
| 02:39.00 | lcuk | its like russian rulette |
| 02:39.06 | lcuk | roulette? |
| 02:41.12 | *** join/#maemo vivijim1 (n=vivijim@189.115.168.232.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 02:44.28 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@84.49.132.162) |
| 02:44.32 | Flandry | i read things about the autobuilder. Do i compile and package binaries or do i upload a source deb that is compiled on the server? |
| 02:44.42 | fiferboy | Now to decide whether to release it to extras-devel tonight, or polish it a bit tomorrow |
| 02:44.53 | GeneralAntilles | tonight |
| 02:44.57 | lcuk | Flandry, you build your deb to source packages |
| 02:45.01 | GeneralAntilles | So we can get karma for calling it broken. |
| 02:45.13 | fiferboy | It is pretty basic, but should work. |
| 02:45.34 | GeneralAntilles | You say that now, but then you're going to get a bug about it killing somebody's dog. |
| 02:45.40 | fiferboy | Configuration is there, it should be easy on the battery |
| 02:45.41 | lcuk | dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -S |
| 02:45.55 | fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: I would be surprised if I didn't |
| 02:46.08 | fiferboy | Okay, I will put it in extras-devel so you guys can pick it apart |
| 02:46.24 | lcuk | that produces a .changes file, a .dsc and a .deb |
| 02:46.24 | Flandry | man that's all greek to me :D |
| 02:46.27 | fiferboy | I'll announce it tomorrow if you guys don't hurt my feelings too much |
| 02:46.52 | lcuk | Flandry, yeah tis |
| 02:46.57 | lcuk | debian packaging is a fine art |
| 02:47.01 | lcuk | few have mastered it |
| 02:47.06 | lcuk | we have our own blackbelt |
| 02:47.41 | wiretapped | just learned how to use apt-ftparchive instead of dpkg-scanpackages |
| 02:47.51 | wiretapped | and now I have a gpg-signed repo |
| 02:47.59 | lcuk | who is always happy to talk about it and give a bit of a nudge for those doing other stuff |
| 02:48.09 | lcuk | cool |
| 02:48.14 | wiretapped | ACACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED |
| 02:48.21 | wiretapped | ACAC yeah |
| 02:48.38 | lcuk | what good does that do tho |
| 02:48.41 | *** join/#maemo n810debian (n=linux@98.89.2.81) |
| 02:48.45 | wiretapped | it makes debian-installer happy |
| 02:48.46 | *** join/#maemo fernand0 (n=fernand0@190.25.171.66) |
| 02:48.53 | n810debian | i found the debian partition in maemo's root terminal, umounted it, and need to change the filesystem size without changing the partition size, ext2resize is not available for my architecture (arm maemo), any suggestions? |
| 02:49.01 | *** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 02:49.34 | wiretapped | n810debian: i assume you mean armel, not arm, if you're on an n810 |
| 02:49.49 | n810debian | wiretapped: yes |
| 02:49.51 | lcuk | n810debian, port it! |
| 02:50.17 | n810debian | lcuk: its not easy enough for non-programming users to do yet |
| 02:50.35 | n810debian | lcuk: needs an easy gtk+ gui with a button that says "start" |
| 02:50.38 | lcuk | i expect lots of non programming users do what you are doing now |
| 02:51.08 | n810debian | lcuk: do you know a way from the maemo kernel on the n810 to resize fs's |
| 02:51.35 | lcuk | not personally |
| 02:51.45 | lcuk | the person who might is penguinbait |
| 02:51.51 | lcuk | he wrote some file system tools |
| 02:51.54 | lcuk | /ported them |
| 02:52.03 | lcuk | lemme see if i can find links, they might help |
| 02:52.11 | n810debian | lcuk: someone wrote ext2progs, does that have any utilites that can help? |
| 02:52.43 | GeneralAntilles | He wrote some shell scripts. |
| 02:52.45 | GeneralAntilles | Let's be clear. |
| 02:52.46 | lcuk | i dunno, you are the one performing this op |
| 02:52.55 | wiretapped | n810debian: do you have another linux system besides your n810? |
| 02:52.57 | lcuk | GeneralAntilles, ok, he brought sometools to maemo |
| 02:53.00 | lcuk | which no1 else did |
| 02:53.00 | n810debian | lcuk: i installed debian on-top of maemo, and it works fine, but i can't get the file system to be more than 1.2 GB when the microSD is 4 GB ext2 |
| 02:53.05 | lcuk | which were todo with filesystem stuff |
| 02:53.21 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, nope, he wrote some shell scripts. |
| 02:53.21 | lcuk | does it report as 4gb from maemo |
| 02:53.23 | GeneralAntilles | The tools were there. |
| 02:53.26 | n810debian | wiretapped: meaning debian is a virtual OS on top of maemo |
| 02:53.27 | wiretapped | mount the microSD on your desktop computer and resize it there |
| 02:53.34 | wiretapped | n810debian: i'm familiar :) |
| 02:53.43 | n810debian | lcuk: gparted on the n810 says its 4 gb, and di -f reports 1.2 GB full |
| 02:54.16 | Flandry | so i got the source deb for this library. Do i use configure or just change things in ./debian like control? |
| 02:54.33 | n810debian | lcuk: i mean df, i forgot the flag |
| 02:54.37 | *** join/#maemo _jason553839 (n=thot@203-73-249-42.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 02:54.54 | wiretapped | n810debian: do you have another linux system besides your n810? |
| 02:54.58 | n810debian | wiretapped, no other computer has micro or SD capabilities, can i ssh mount? |
| 02:55.03 | n810debian | wiretapped: yes |
| 02:55.12 | wiretapped | conveniently, your n810 is an sd reader |
| 02:55.34 | n810debian | wiretapped, for only internal memory? |
| 02:55.40 | wiretapped | no, for the microsd |
| 02:55.54 | n810debian | wiretapped: hmm....interesting, go on |
| 02:56.02 | wiretapped | what more is there to say? |
| 02:56.10 | wiretapped | pc + usb cable + n810 |
| 02:56.14 | n810debian | wiretapped: the terminal instructios to resize the fs |
| 02:57.24 | wiretapped | man resize2fs |
| 02:57.53 | n810debian | wiretapped: thanks; is there a command to resize the dev to full open capacity? |
| 02:58.07 | n810debian | wiretapped: no sarcasm intended |
| 02:58.48 | wiretapped | from the manual: "If size parameter is not specified, it will default to the size of the partition." |
| 02:59.00 | n810debian | wiretapped: thanks, you are the best |
| 02:59.02 | wiretapped | is this filesystem on a partition or an image? |
| 02:59.31 | wiretapped | if you did the easy debian install iirc it should be on an image file... so you actually need to make that bigger first. |
| 02:59.33 | n810debian | i believe image, isn't debian for n810 on an image? its on its own partition ext2 on the microSD |
| 03:00.05 | n810debian | wiretapped: i resized the partition to 4 GB, how do i resize the image from 1.2 to 4 GB? |
| 03:01.03 | wiretapped | um |
| 03:01.25 | wiretapped | ls -l the image file |
| 03:01.29 | wiretapped | see how many bytes it is |
| 03:01.29 | *** join/#maemo shdb (n=shdb@217-162-129-64.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 03:01.40 | lcuk | btw n810debian |
| 03:01.41 | n810debian | its 1.2 from the df command |
| 03:01.44 | n810debian | GB |
| 03:01.50 | wiretapped | you need to know how many bytes, though |
| 03:01.53 | wiretapped | for the next step |
| 03:01.56 | wiretapped | ls -l |
| 03:01.57 | lcuk | i have http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E2fsprogs listed as available from my apt-get |
| 03:02.02 | lcuk | but im not on n810 |
| 03:02.13 | wiretapped | yeah resize2fs should actually be available on maemo iirc |
| 03:02.13 | lcuk | e2fsprogs includes resize |
| 03:02.21 | wiretapped | so forget your PC |
| 03:02.25 | lcuk | just went looking |
| 03:02.25 | wiretapped | to resize the file... |
| 03:02.28 | lcuk | that was his question |
| 03:02.32 | n810debian | lcuk, changing computers, one sec yall |
| 03:02.35 | lcuk | lol |
| 03:02.42 | n810debian | did a find / -name resize with no luck |
| 03:02.43 | n810debian | brb |
| 03:03.09 | lcuk | apt-cache search ext2 |
| 03:03.15 | lcuk | fine |
| 03:03.16 | lcuk | :P |
| 03:03.49 | *** join/#maemo n810debian (n=linux@adsl-89-2-81.mgm.bellsouth.net) |
| 03:03.54 | n810debian | back |
| 03:03.58 | lcuk | apt-cache search ext2 |
| 03:04.04 | lcuk | see whether you have it :) |
| 03:04.35 | n810debian | mounted it on the other computer, 1.2 GB (1288489984 bytes) |
| 03:04.45 | lcuk | its in maemo diablo |
| 03:04.51 | n810debian | searching now (have diablo) |
| 03:05.13 | n810debian | i see e2fsprogs (which i thought i installed) |
| 03:05.13 | lcuk | yeah |
| 03:05.17 | lcuk | brought in from sarge |
| 03:05.28 | wiretapped | dd if=/dev/zero of=/path/to/imagefile seek=1288489984 bs=1 count=2000000000 |
| 03:05.36 | wiretapped | I *THINK* that will do it |
| 03:05.43 | wiretapped | don't blame me if you lose all your data |
| 03:05.54 | n810debian | wiretapped: no important data on it |
| 03:05.59 | wiretapped | but iirc that is what you need to do to add 2GB to your image |
| 03:06.06 | wiretapped | then resize2fs /path/to/imagefile |
| 03:06.14 | n810debian | where does the image default? |
| 03:06.19 | wiretapped | no idea |
| 03:06.26 | n810debian | wiretapped: that will require mounting the SD? |
| 03:06.29 | wiretapped | what did you ls -l ?? |
| 03:06.51 | wiretapped | you should be able to do this on your device with e2fsprogs installed |
| 03:07.39 | lcuk | n810debian, if its a 4gb card |
| 03:07.43 | lcuk | and its meant to be 4gb |
| 03:07.57 | n810debian | lcuk: i guess i moved the apt folder to the drive |
| 03:08.03 | wiretapped | isn't sure if n810debian even has a disk image, or what |
| 03:08.11 | n810debian | so i'll need to make it 3.6 GB |
| 03:08.31 | n810debian | ubuntu reports it as 3.7 GB |
| 03:08.33 | lcuk | frankly, im in the dark about partitioning, i did it once |
| 03:08.38 | lcuk | and nearly blew my system |
| 03:08.42 | lcuk | so i didnt touch it again |
| 03:09.41 | lcuk | just explain how you THINK the card is laid out |
| 03:09.47 | lcuk | and what you did to get it like that |
| 03:09.53 | lcuk | it might help to help you |
| 03:09.57 | *** join/#maemo g55 (n=g55@93.135.223.30) |
| 03:10.15 | n810debian | lcuk: let me consult gparted on the n810 |
| 03:10.18 | lcuk | cos afaik, most mmc cards come fully formatted with fat |
| 03:10.25 | lcuk | to whole size |
| 03:10.28 | lcuk | one span |
| 03:10.36 | clmntch | hello |
| 03:10.48 | n810debian | lcuk: i formatted it with ext2 |
| 03:11.17 | lcuk | just a straight format, no mucking with multitple partitions |
| 03:11.26 | lcuk | hi clmntch |
| 03:11.28 | Flandry | In general, does the "rules" file of a debian library package need to be modified then? |
| 03:11.34 | n810debian | wow, its reporting as 3.42 GB in gparted |
| 03:12.16 | n810debian | wiretapped: i found the image: debian-squeeze.img.ext2 under /media/mmc1 |
| 03:12.27 | wiretapped | hey, there you go |
| 03:12.30 | wiretapped | so ls -l that |
| 03:12.35 | n810debian | wiretapped: and as seen above, gparted is showing the drive as 3.42 GB |
| 03:12.38 | wiretapped | and fill in that number of bytes in the dd command i gave you |
| 03:12.44 | wiretapped | what were you ls -l'ing before? |
| 03:12.55 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (n=hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 03:13.06 | wiretapped | when you said "1288489984 bytes" |
| 03:13.12 | wiretapped | ? |
| 03:13.21 | lcuk | Flandry, i built unchanged a debai ndeb |
| 03:13.24 | lcuk | and pushed through |
| 03:13.52 | lcuk | dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -S |
| 03:13.59 | lcuk | from your system just try that |
| 03:14.06 | lcuk | from the source folder |
| 03:14.09 | lcuk | and see what it does |
| 03:14.14 | Flandry | oh ok |
| 03:14.30 | wiretapped | n810debian: also, df -h /media/mmc1 |
| 03:14.34 | wiretapped | how much free space do you have? |
| 03:14.47 | n810debian | img file --> 1288489984 |
| 03:15.04 | lcuk | ahhhh n810debian so, you created an ext2 file within the still existing FAT partition |
| 03:15.06 | n810debian | avail: 1.8 G |
| 03:15.24 | n810debian | lcuk: no, the image is sitting on an ext2 partition type |
| 03:15.25 | lcuk | when i reformatted my drive as extwhatever it was the actual whole MMC |
| 03:15.40 | Flandry | heh what's the metric for success here? |
| 03:15.54 | lcuk | world still revolving |
| 03:15.54 | n810debian | Flandry: 1, not 0 |
| 03:16.04 | lcuk | sun still warm |
| 03:16.12 | wiretapped | ok... here is the command to run: dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 seek=1288489984 bs=1 |
| 03:16.36 | wiretapped | i guess you don't need to specify the count... dd will just append zeroes to the file until the mmc is full :) |
| 03:16.38 | n810debian | wiretapped: one more thing... i moved the apt cache directory to the partition (on the SD card mmc1) |
| 03:16.47 | wiretapped | then resize2fs /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 |
| 03:17.08 | n810debian | wiretapped: so i could actually install files, can i save 400 mb for that? |
| 03:17.09 | wiretapped | maemo's apt cache, or debians? |
| 03:17.13 | n810debian | debians |
| 03:17.24 | wiretapped | how's that? I thought debian was all inside the image |
| 03:17.30 | n810debian | debian was using my local drive (200 mb), nope |
| 03:17.37 | wiretapped | is confused |
| 03:17.37 | lcuk | what filesystem type is /media/mmc1 ?? |
| 03:17.41 | lcuk | is that still fat |
| 03:17.54 | n810debian | lcuk: no, its ext2, it came fat, i formatted it to ext2 |
| 03:18.13 | lcuk | so where are you storing the .debs |
| 03:18.23 | n810debian | /media/mmc1/apt/cache |
| 03:18.24 | *** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@86.56.6.13) |
| 03:18.37 | lcuk | within the existing 1.8gb exst2 partition |
| 03:18.50 | n810debian | yes |
| 03:18.50 | wiretapped | and debian can see that? |
| 03:18.53 | wiretapped | ok |
| 03:18.59 | wiretapped | i'd get rid of that |
| 03:19.04 | Flandry | alright i'm a bit dense |
| 03:19.08 | Flandry | here's the output |
| 03:19.09 | wiretapped | and just keep everything in the image |
| 03:19.14 | Flandry | dpkg-source: building libmikmod in libmikmod_3.1.11-6ubuntu3.diff.gz |
| 03:19.15 | Flandry | dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file docs/mikmod.info |
| 03:19.15 | Flandry | dpkg-source: building libmikmod in libmikmod_3.1.11-6ubuntu3.dsc |
| 03:19.15 | Flandry | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:19.15 | Flandry | dpkg-genchanges: including full source code in upload |
| 03:19.15 | Flandry | dpkg-buildpackage: source only upload (original source is included) |
| 03:19.15 | lcuk | Flandry, PASTEBIN |
| 03:19.20 | n810debian | wiretapped: i put it there because it was using my 200 mb (and couldn't install files through apt-get) |
| 03:19.38 | wiretapped | i don't know what 200mb you mean |
| 03:19.42 | n810debian | wiretapped: how do i tell debian to keep the apt stuff in the image? it doesn't do it by default |
| 03:19.42 | lcuk | Flandry, try just dpkg-buildpackage |
| 03:19.53 | n810debian | the other partition, not mmc1 or mmc2 (the small one) |
| 03:20.06 | n810debian | the maemo root partition / |
| 03:20.20 | lcuk | n810debian, paste result of df |
| 03:20.22 | lcuk | :D |
| 03:20.26 | wiretapped | i didn't realize the maemo debian stuff kept files there |
| 03:20.37 | wiretapped | it has been a while since i've had a debian chroot on my n800 |
| 03:20.44 | ali1234 | n810debian: what are you actually trying to do? |
| 03:21.08 | n810debian | /dev/mtdblock4 255488 (23044 avail); then the mmc1 and mmc2 |
| 03:21.34 | n810debian | ali1234: expand the debian image on n810 and leave room for /media/mmc1/apt/cache |
| 03:21.48 | ali1234 | i see |
| 03:22.02 | Flandry | yeah i ran dpkg-bulidpackage and those were the last few lines of output |
| 03:22.09 | wiretapped | i need to go now. |
| 03:22.13 | Flandry | that's why i was wondering how to know if it worked |
| 03:22.17 | lcuk | Flandry, so step back one folder |
| 03:22.23 | lcuk | and see if the required files are there |
| 03:22.28 | lcuk | i think they will be |
| 03:22.35 | ali1234 | n810debian: so, what wiretapped said will work, just add a count so you dont completely fill the disk |
| 03:22.50 | wiretapped | I will /lastlog n810debian later, i expect to hear of your great success :) |
| 03:23.52 | Flandry | the same files are there as were when i got the source. Should i have deleted them? |
| 03:23.52 | lcuk | "oh crap wiretapped what have you made me £"^£%"$^"$[NOCARRIER] |
| 03:23.52 | n810debian | ali1234: can i create a 0'ed file that is 400 mb and dump it in apt/cache dir? |
| 03:23.53 | n810debian | ali1234: then fill to capacity with dd command? |
| 03:23.53 | ali1234 | you can. but why would you want to? |
| 03:23.58 | n810debian | ali1234: i don't know where to count it to, not used to dd command |
| 03:24.09 | lcuk | Flandry, .changes, .dsc .deb, .tar.gz? |
| 03:24.16 | ali1234 | n810debian: it will dd count*bs bytes |
| 03:24.25 | Flandry | no .deb |
| 03:24.47 | Flandry | the rest were there when i got the source package |
| 03:25.05 | n810debian | so i should run: dd if=/dev/zero of=/path/to/imagefile seek=1288489984 bs=1 count=2000000000 to fill it up completely, and what to run to fill it up (completely - 400 mb)? |
| 03:25.13 | n810debian | - = minus |
| 03:25.30 | ali1234 | eh? |
| 03:25.46 | ali1234 | bs is blocksize, do not use 1, it will take forever |
| 03:25.48 | lcuk | Flandry, datestamps |
| 03:26.11 | ali1234 | n810debian: how much freespace on that partition? |
| 03:26.24 | n810debian | 1.8 GB |
| 03:26.37 | ali1234 | so to leave 400mb, you will grow the image by 1.4gb |
| 03:26.43 | wiretapped | ali1234: isn't seek specified in bs units though? |
| 03:26.53 | wiretapped | forgets |
| 03:26.53 | ali1234 | probably yes |
| 03:26.57 | *** join/#maemo ferdna (n=ferdna@cpe-24-92-112-49.elp.res.rr.com) |
| 03:27.02 | Flandry | the diff.gz, dsc, changes are all altered |
| 03:27.03 | ali1234 | but you dont need to seek, if you are creative |
| 03:27.08 | wiretapped | hows that? |
| 03:27.11 | Flandry | but there is no deb there |
| 03:27.21 | ali1234 | you dont even need to use dd |
| 03:27.28 | n810debian | ali1234: what is the command to create a zeroed 400 mb file in /media/mmc1/apt/ ? |
| 03:27.44 | ali1234 | but we can say dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/stdout >> image |
| 03:27.47 | ali1234 | and it will append |
| 03:27.55 | wiretapped | ah, good point! |
| 03:28.04 | wiretapped | actually i think you could even leave off the of=/dev/stdout |
| 03:28.10 | ali1234 | probably |
| 03:28.13 | wiretapped | yeah |
| 03:28.28 | wiretapped | ok then. |
| 03:28.37 | Flandry | sorry, don't know what you meant by pastebin |
| 03:28.52 | ali1234 | n810debian: dd if=/dev/zero of=whatever bs=1000000 count=400 |
| 03:28.56 | n810debian | !pastebin | Flandry |
| 03:28.58 | lcuk | Flandry, you dont need .deb |
| 03:29.01 | lcuk | to upload to extras |
| 03:29.13 | lcuk | the command that was ran was source packaging |
| 03:29.20 | Flandry | oh, duh |
| 03:29.24 | lcuk | <Flandry> dpkg-buildpackage: source only upload (original source is included) |
| 03:29.25 | *** join/#maemo Analias (n=analias@68.35.8.162) |
| 03:29.46 | lcuk | when you wish to push a package to extras for you and other developers to use |
| 03:29.49 | lcuk | you do not push binaries |
| 03:30.04 | lcuk | you push source, and it gathers the deps and builds them for you |
| 03:30.09 | wiretapped | n810debian: dd if=/dev/zero bs=1M count=1500 >> /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 |
| 03:30.17 | lcuk | and prepares for users to download from the repository |
| 03:30.18 | wiretapped | will append approx 1.5GB of zeroes to your image |
| 03:30.26 | Flandry | ok that makes sense |
| 03:30.29 | ali1234 | n810debian: and i hope you have a backup if you're not used to dd |
| 03:30.29 | ali1234 | also instead of resizing |
| 03:30.29 | ali1234 | it's way easier to just make a new empty fs and cp -a everything over |
| 03:30.49 | Flandry | how do i test to make sure it builds properly though? |
| 03:30.50 | wiretapped | is really leaving now |
| 03:31.00 | lcuk | Flandry, principle reason: you can build for multiple OS versions and CPU targets |
| 03:31.11 | fiferboy | Ok, personal-photo-frame is on its way to extras-devel |
| 03:31.12 | n810debian | ali1234: no data valuable on it, just trying to do it once |
| 03:31.40 | n810debian | ali1234: still zeroing a 400 mb file :) |
| 03:31.41 | lcuk | Flandry, i use this command on my system |
| 03:31.42 | lcuk | fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -i -I.git |
| 03:31.44 | fiferboy | Try it out, and let me know tomorrow how it works |
| 03:31.50 | lcuk | and it builds source stuff and .deb files |
| 03:32.09 | lcuk | fiferboy, i will test tomorrow thanks! |
| 03:32.37 | n810debian | ali1234: awesome, its done, so i can dd if=/dev/zero bs=1M count=1500 >> /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 now? |
| 03:32.59 | fiferboy | I need to add random order for slideshow, launch the photo app on click, (possible) slideshow controls on the widget for the next version |
| 03:33.04 | GeneralAntilles | suspects he'll be mailing fiferboy the charred remains of his RX-51. |
| 03:33.10 | ali1234 | n810debian: you could have done it at any point, i don't know what you mean? |
| 03:33.23 | GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, also consider mafw UPnP? |
| 03:33.25 | fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: Why are you so positive tonight ;P |
| 03:33.28 | n810debian | ali1234: what will increase the image size to the maximum free space of partition? |
| 03:33.50 | GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, just bored. ;) |
| 03:33.57 | fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: Good idea. I have been thinking about other photo sources like flickr, but that would be a few versions for now |
| 03:33.59 | ali1234 | n810debian: dd if=/dev/zero >> /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 |
| 03:34.15 | lcuk | anything good on the other channels tonight |
| 03:34.22 | fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: Just because the Rays aren't in the post season this year? I thought you would be used to it... |
| 03:34.25 | GeneralAntilles | Flickr would be awesome, too. |
| 03:34.28 | lcuk | are there any decent forums alive |
| 03:34.36 | lcuk | GeneralAntilles, featurecreep |
| 03:34.37 | GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, hehe, 2008 was so much fun. |
| 03:34.40 | fiferboy | Someone snarfed the fiferboy flickr account :( |
| 03:34.50 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, by adding two very common photo sources? |
| 03:34.56 | GeneralAntilles | and, really, lcuk, you should talk. :roll: |
| 03:35.00 | lcuk | :D |
| 03:35.05 | lcuk | i released those and moved on |
| 03:35.12 | lcuk | ive not technically released anything yet |
| 03:35.29 | n810debian | ali1234: running the command now, thanx a lot for your help and wire's and lcuk's, without it i'd be stuck with a 1.2 image |
| 03:35.34 | fiferboy | lcuk: I plan on having the core functionality complete before adding more sources |
| 03:35.39 | GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, I hate that. |
| 03:35.47 | lcuk | nods |
| 03:35.51 | GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, the one and only thing somebody's managed to snag out from under me is gmail. |
| 03:36.04 | n810debian | whoever made the debian for the n810: my hats off to them; great great application |
| 03:36.05 | GeneralAntilles | It's registered to some hotmail idiot. |
| 03:36.25 | fiferboy | I've lost a few user names, nothing I really miss |
| 03:36.41 | fiferboy | But I tried registering flickr just today :| |
| 03:37.41 | fiferboy | Anyone considering Personal Photo Frame might want to consider waiting 20 minutes for 0.1-2 (already building) |
| 03:38.09 | fiferboy | The only difference is the newer package loads a default image in on first load, making it easier to notice than a blank frame |
| 03:38.15 | lcuk | how would you manage flickr stuff (theoretically |
| 03:38.43 | lcuk | i personally think a google search is better |
| 03:38.47 | lcuk | give it a big disctionary |
| 03:38.52 | lcuk | get it to pick out 2 words |
| 03:38.58 | lcuk | do a google on them and download the pic |
| 03:39.14 | fiferboy | lcuk: Most likely (from what I have heard about flickr, having never used it) either by tag or by 'friend' accounts |
| 03:39.15 | n810debian | i got a filesize exceeded error |
| 03:39.21 | n810debian | booting up to see if its extended |
| 03:39.27 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, or just your own photostream. . . |
| 03:39.27 | lcuk | so you need a tag interface |
| 03:39.45 | lcuk | and preferences to mange it |
| 03:39.52 | ali1234 | n810debian: you still have to resize the filesystem inside the image or it wont make any difference |
| 03:40.01 | fiferboy | lcuk: I plan on adding the tag cloud for the local slideshow too |
| 03:40.14 | lcuk | wicked :D |
| 03:40.15 | n810debian | ali1234: ok, im in the image now, opening terminal inside |
| 03:40.23 | fiferboy | I am not completely sold on flickr integration yet (I really haven't looked into the technical side) |
| 03:40.28 | GeneralAntilles | finally gets back to watching Doctor Who. |
| 03:40.38 | lcuk | i think they just did one inside canola for gsoc |
| 03:40.38 | fiferboy | It just makes sense to include it at some point (if feasible) |
| 03:40.38 | GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, check the Canola plugin for code. |
| 03:40.46 | Flandry | yay Dr. Who |
| 03:40.48 | lcuk | so it might make sense to compare notes |
| 03:40.51 | fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: Good idea |
| 03:41.05 | lcuk | GeneralAntilles, which drwho? |
| 03:41.08 | fiferboy | Anyway, I have to go clean the kitchen then crawl into bed... |
| 03:41.26 | n810debian | ali1234: do i run the same command inside of the debian image? |
| 03:41.38 | ali1234 | n810debian: no |
| 03:41.46 | lcuk | fiferboy, cya later :D |
| 03:41.53 | fiferboy | Night all |
| 03:41.53 | lcuk | will check out app later |
| 03:41.59 | fiferboy | lcuk: Thanks |
| 03:42.39 | lcuk | http://www.xkcd.com/644/ :D |
| 03:42.45 | lcuk | ive missed xkcd |
| 03:42.58 | n810debian | what command should i run inside the debian image to resize? |
| 03:43.13 | ali1234 | you dont run any command inside debian |
| 03:43.34 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, series 3 of the new one. |
| 03:43.37 | ali1234 | the image contains a filesystem |
| 03:43.41 | ali1234 | you must resize that filesystem |
| 03:43.45 | lcuk | top notch stuff |
| 03:43.47 | ali1234 | from *outside* of it |
| 03:43.53 | lcuk | have fun gen |
| 03:43.56 | lcuk | gnite all \o |
| 03:43.59 | n810debian | it shows the filesystem has 23 mb on it from inside |
| 03:44.18 | *** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 03:44.20 | n810debian | that command you gave me should have resized the image already, correct? what command should i input inside or outside the image to show the file extension? |
| 03:44.56 | Flandry | aw man |
| 03:45.04 | Flandry | thanks lcuk |
| 03:45.35 | n810debian | i ran this last *outside* the image: dd if=/dev/zero >> /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 |
| 03:45.45 | n810debian | what else needs to be done to extend the image? |
| 03:45.55 | wiretapped | is back |
| 03:45.59 | lcuk | np Flandry keep us informed about the game |
| 03:46.07 | lcuk | good luck with it |
| 03:46.09 | ali1234 | n810debian: e2fsck -f /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 && resize2fs /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 && e2fsck -f /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 |
| 03:46.09 | *** join/#maemo _jason553839 (n=thot@203-73-249-42.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 03:46.12 | lcuk | read all the docs you can |
| 03:46.17 | wiretapped | yes |
| 03:46.24 | wiretapped | what ali1234 said |
| 03:46.39 | Flandry | guess i'll need to |
| 03:46.45 | wiretapped | (outside the image) |
| 03:46.59 | Flandry | binary build fails so back to the drawing board |
| 03:47.57 | ali1234 | Flandry: if you're too lazy to package it you can compile that one lib static |
| 03:48.22 | ali1234 | you still need to package up the end result for anyone to use it of course |
| 03:48.43 | Flandry | yeah, i want to get the library packaged as a practice run |
| 03:48.51 | Flandry | it might be useful to others anyway |
| 03:48.59 | n810debian | wiretapped: yeah, i was confused about that for a while, but now i get it and am running those outside the image :) |
| 03:49.15 | lcuk | gah Flandry use pastebin.com and show us the output |
| 03:49.27 | lcuk | run make or dpkg-buildpackage or something on it |
| 03:49.28 | n810debian | ali1234: command complete! |
| 03:49.31 | lcuk | so we see the problems |
| 03:49.47 | lcuk | has one last cig before bed |
| 03:50.03 | Flandry | i decided starting from the ubuntu package wasn't a good idea so i'm looking for the deb package |
| 03:50.12 | n810debian | still shows only 23 MB free |
| 03:50.23 | Flandry | i cant' see a way to get the whole thing as a tarball though |
| 03:50.38 | lcuk | you need to build it for the CPU |
| 03:50.51 | lcuk | you are ok as source - just try to run the dpkg line again |
| 03:50.54 | lcuk | and show us the errors |
| 03:51.10 | wiretapped | n810debian: was the filesystem mounted while you did this? |
| 03:51.14 | wiretapped | how big is the image file now? |
| 03:51.33 | n810debian | i ran the exit debian script provided, shouldn't that umount it? |
| 03:51.35 | wiretapped | actually i think resize2fs works with it mounted... |
| 03:52.10 | wiretapped | ls -l /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 |
| 03:53.00 | n810debian | that last command killed the image |
| 03:53.02 | n810debian | can't boot into it |
| 03:53.02 | n810debian | rebooting n810 |
| 03:53.36 | Flandry | Alright well i'm probably doing this ass-backwards: |
| 03:54.10 | n810debian | wiretapped: 2099204 |
| 03:55.12 | wiretapped | GeneralAntilles: re: donations in software stores: I was pleased to discover just now that this has already been proposed for ubuntu: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/21212 |
| 03:55.37 | GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, there's a Brainstorm on http://maemo.org too |
| 03:55.47 | n810debian | i lost my windows manager, but the terminal still works with all the programs installed |
| 03:56.08 | wiretapped | hey, so there is |
| 03:56.09 | Flandry | i'm running sudo apt-get source libmikmod from my system, where the package is visible |
| 03:56.25 | Flandry | copying the results to the scratchbox user area |
| 03:56.26 | n810debian | windows manager works after reboot :) |
| 03:56.28 | GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/donations_are_not_simplified_and_not_enough_emphasized |
| 03:57.12 | n810debian | it still shows 23 mb free in the virtual debian os |
| 03:57.38 | wiretapped | n810debian: :( |
| 03:57.49 | n810debian | at least nothing is corrupted :) |
| 03:58.11 | wiretapped | n810debian: can you paste the full output of df at http://maemo.pastebin.com/ |
| 03:59.21 | *** join/#maemo |R (n=bob@dsl-67-204-10-217.acanac.net) |
| 04:00.12 | ferdna | does anyone knows how to install symbian on qemu? |
| 04:00.28 | n810debian | http://maemo.pastebin.com/m27752575 |
| 04:00.57 | n810debian | i ran dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc1/apt/temp bs=1000000 count=400 && dd if=/dev/zero >> /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 && e2fsck -f /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 && resize2fs /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 && e2fsck -f /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 |
| 04:01.49 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: I disagree with the implication that free software developers are less interested in making money. |
| 04:02.24 | lcuk | depends on level of participation luke-jr |
| 04:02.32 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, I haven't implied anything besides fiferboy being a creeper in the past few hours, you're probably highlighting the wrong person. |
| 04:02.33 | lcuk | some do it cos theres a need for their app |
| 04:02.40 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: your link |
| 04:02.52 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, sorry, wasn't linking it to discuss. |
| 04:02.58 | luke-jr | lcuk: yeah, but that doesn't mean we don't want money :p |
| 04:02.59 | GeneralAntilles | Please place all discussion on the link. |
| 04:03.10 | lcuk | luke-jr, of course |
| 04:03.48 | Flandry | http://pastebin.com/d36757254 |
| 04:03.57 | n810debian | wiretapped: my df look okay? |
| 04:04.30 | wiretapped | n810debian: actually no, i'm not sure what is going on there, sorry :/ |
| 04:04.58 | wiretapped | the maemo debian package clearly involves some voodoo which i don't know about |
| 04:05.51 | lcuk | Flandry, when you got the source |
| 04:05.59 | lcuk | did you run the configure script |
| 04:06.04 | n810debian | ali1234: any other suggestions or error in the input commands? |
| 04:06.04 | lcuk | or just extract as it came |
| 04:06.58 | wiretapped | n810debian: can you paste the output of the mount command also? |
| 04:07.05 | Flandry | sudo apt-get source libmikmod |
| 04:07.05 | wiretapped | just mount, with no arguments |
| 04:07.20 | Flandry | and then copied it to the scratchbox user area |
| 04:07.32 | ali1234 | n810debian: according to the /debian is still 1.2 gb |
| 04:07.38 | Flandry | and ran dpkg-buildpackage |
| 04:08.31 | Flandry | i thought configure would be run automatically |
| 04:08.40 | Flandry | should i be ./configure ing? |
| 04:08.41 | lcuk | yeah it has been |
| 04:08.45 | n810debian | wiretapped: what command do you want me to run in terminal as root in maemo? |
| 04:08.47 | lcuk | my mistake, and its failing |
| 04:09.27 | ali1234 | Flandry: dpkg-buildpackage should do everything, it's meant to be fully automated |
| 04:09.28 | cleary_ | Flandry: the process I use is: apt-get build-dep foo; apt-get source foo; cd foo<ver>; debuild -us -uc |
| 04:09.50 | cleary_ | I don't know if the debuild wrapper handles some extra debian/rules stuff |
| 04:09.55 | wiretapped | n810debian: mount |
| 04:10.00 | cleary_ | but it may do the trick for you |
| 04:10.07 | wiretapped | and pastebin the output |
| 04:10.42 | Flandry | well i'm getting the package from the ubuntu repositories on my machine and moving it to the scratchbox machine |
| 04:10.55 | Flandry | is that the source of the problem? |
| 04:10.55 | cleary_ | Flandry: (you need to install devscripts, fakeroot and build-essential for my method) |
| 04:10.58 | lcuk | its having a serious problem inside its configure script |
| 04:11.05 | lcuk | as in not able to find compiler |
| 04:11.12 | lcuk | or use it sorry |
| 04:11.36 | n810debian | http://maemo.pastebin.com/m5972a254 |
| 04:11.39 | Flandry | i'm probably doing something dumb |
| 04:11.41 | lcuk | # |
| 04:11.41 | lcuk | checking for i486-linux-gnu-gcc... i486-linux-gnu-gcc |
| 04:11.41 | lcuk | # |
| 04:11.41 | lcuk | checking for C compiler default output file name... a.out |
| 04:11.41 | lcuk | # |
| 04:11.43 | Flandry | lol |
| 04:11.43 | lcuk | checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs. |
| 04:11.45 | lcuk | # |
| 04:11.47 | lcuk | If you meant to cross compile, use `--host'. |
| 04:11.49 | lcuk | :D heh damn |
| 04:11.52 | lcuk | whistles |
| 04:11.57 | lcuk | that was meant to be 4 lines |
| 04:12.08 | cleary_ | Flandry: another method you have to ensure clean building is to use something like pbuilder |
| 04:12.18 | lcuk | cleary |
| 04:12.24 | lcuk | its got standard tooling |
| 04:12.31 | lcuk | but complex build |
| 04:12.32 | Flandry | so let me ask then |
| 04:12.35 | cleary_ | lcuk: sorry - where is this from? |
| 04:12.37 | lcuk | it does patching and stuff |
| 04:12.42 | cleary_ | ah |
| 04:12.52 | cleary_ | didn't scroll up far enough - thanks lcuk ;) |
| 04:13.06 | Flandry | how do you get the source package if the package isn't available? |
| 04:13.12 | cleary_ | will be quiet |
| 04:13.20 | Flandry | are you adding debian repositories for source in scratchbox? |
| 04:13.36 | lcuk | you can add them, but i think you will get the same result |
| 04:13.58 | ali1234 | well i just build a package for libode0, it wasn't so hard :) |
| 04:14.22 | lcuk | yeah and i did one for OSC stuff |
| 04:14.35 | lcuk | some come across easily |
| 04:14.41 | lcuk | others are little pigs! |
| 04:14.48 | n810debian | wiretapped: should i retry? |
| 04:14.49 | lcuk | Flandry, where abouts are you based |
| 04:15.00 | Flandry | Boston |
| 04:15.20 | ali1234 | n810debian: how big is the ext2 image now? |
| 04:15.34 | lcuk | might be an idea to ask on the -dev mailing list |
| 04:15.57 | n810debian | 2147483647 |
| 04:16.05 | ali1234 | hmm |
| 04:16.33 | lcuk | i have to sleep tho |
| 04:16.41 | wiretapped | n810debian: there is no /debian in that mount output... was it mounted when you ran that? |
| 04:16.43 | lcuk | im in manchester and its vvvvvlate |
| 04:16.50 | n810debian | wiretapped: no |
| 04:16.50 | lcuk | gnite chaps again |
| 04:16.58 | wiretapped | ok then :) |
| 04:17.00 | n810debian | wiretapped: want me to rerun with it mounted? |
| 04:17.04 | wiretapped | yeah |
| 04:17.47 | *** join/#maemo frade_ (n=ivan@pc-130-46-161-190.cm.vtr.net) |
| 04:18.20 | n810debian | http://maemo.pastebin.com/m102496d2 |
| 04:18.24 | ali1234 | n810debian: can you run dumpe2fs on the image, and pastebin output please... |
| 04:19.29 | n810debian | i can't capture all the output (terminal cuts the top off) |
| 04:19.48 | Flandry | goodnight lcuk |
| 04:19.48 | ali1234 | install pastebinit |
| 04:19.52 | Flandry | thanks for your help |
| 04:19.58 | ali1234 | redirect output to it |
| 04:20.33 | n810debian | ali1234: can i output to a file? |
| 04:20.33 | ali1234 | if you want, pastebinit is easier though |
| 04:20.36 | Flandry | maybe somebody else can help me play with my mental blocks |
| 04:20.42 | ali1234 | dumpe2fs /media/mmc1/debian-squeeze.img.ext2 | pastebinit |
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| 04:22.37 | n810debian | "importerror: no module named dom.minidom" |
| 04:23.03 | ali1234 | pastebinit is broken? |
| 04:23.12 | n810debian | apparently |
| 04:23.21 | ali1234 | nice |
| 04:24.04 | ali1234 | missing python deps |
| 04:24.11 | n810debian | "Traceback ... File "/usr/bin/pastebinit", line 21, in <module> import urllib, os, sys, re, getopt, select, xml.dom.miidom, gettext" |
| 04:24.47 | wiretapped | is confused about how the same devices are mounted multiple times |
| 04:24.47 | n810debian | ali1234: apt-get install python? |
| 04:25.02 | ali1234 | wiretapped: they're mounted inside and outside of the chroot |
| 04:25.05 | n810debian | wiretapped: assuming they are symlinks? |
| 04:25.18 | ali1234 | wiretapped: with -o bind probably since that's the only way it would work |
| 04:25.20 | wiretapped | i'd expect that to be done with mount --bind |
| 04:25.32 | wiretapped | but that wouldn't look like this in the mount output, would it? |
| 04:25.53 | ali1234 | can do |
| 04:26.00 | ali1234 | but that isn't important |
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| 04:26.24 | n810debian | ali1234: what should i install (why did it install without dependencies?) |
| 04:26.29 | wiretapped | perhaps not, but it is a mystery to me how mount has that output |
| 04:26.34 | ali1234 | n810debian: how did you install it? |
| 04:26.45 | n810debian | apt-get install pastebinit |
| 04:26.46 | wiretapped | sudo mount --bind / /foo/ |
| 04:26.49 | ali1234 | wiretapped: mount just prints what it finds in mtab, no matter how crazy it is |
| 04:26.52 | wiretapped | mount|grep foo |
| 04:26.54 | wiretapped | on /foo type none (rw,bind) |
| 04:27.00 | wiretapped | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:27.03 | wiretapped | rather |
| 04:27.09 | wiretapped | that is what i'd expect |
| 04:27.12 | ali1234 | especially on busybox, it can get really confused. that output is relatively sane |
| 04:27.17 | wiretapped | ok |
| 04:28.39 | n810debian | should i just bittorent the image lol? |
| 04:28.47 | ali1234 | what image? |
| 04:28.55 | n810debian | debian-squeeze* |
| 04:29.20 | ali1234 | i thought you already had it? |
| 04:29.33 | n810debian | i do, but i meant for further inspection |
| 04:29.54 | ali1234 | oh i see |
| 04:30.01 | ali1234 | just redirect the output to a file |
| 04:30.02 | n810debian | should i rerun the commands and hope it expands the image? |
| 04:30.11 | ali1234 | resize2fs should tell you what it is doing |
| 04:30.14 | ali1234 | try it again |
| 04:30.58 | n810debian | tried a dumpe2fs *.ext2 >> file |
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| 04:32.06 | n810debian | trying to open with leafpad |
| 04:32.13 | n810debian | can pastebin do attachments? |
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| 04:34.04 | n810debian | ali1234: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m5448e833 |
| 04:34.43 | ali1234 | still 314572*4096 = 1.2gb |
| 04:34.57 | ali1234 | run resize2f on it again, and see what it sayd |
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| 04:37.14 | n810debian | fix: yes or no? |
| 04:37.43 | n810debian | free blocks count wrong for group #7 (6, counted=5); Fix<y>? |
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| 04:38.47 | slonopotamus | y |
| 04:39.32 | n810debian | ls -l shows 2147483647 |
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| 04:41.48 | n810debian | still 23 MB free, not in the GB range |
| 04:43.48 | n810debian | any ideas for a fix? i can stop by in another few days |
| 04:44.12 | ali1234 | what did resize2fs say? |
| 04:44.36 | n810debian | gave the errors above, and i hit "y" for fix |
| 04:44.41 | *** join/#maemo gunni_ (n=quassel@xdsl-213-196-229-155.netcologne.de) |
| 04:44.41 | ali1234 | and then what? |
| 04:44.52 | n810debian | no errors, completed successfully |
| 04:45.05 | ali1234 | that's what e2fsck is supposed to say |
| 04:45.24 | ali1234 | this is what resize2fs says: |
| 04:45.25 | n810debian | it says ****FILE SYSTEM WAS MODIFIED ****, which seems to be a good thing |
| 04:45.29 | ali1234 | Resizing the filesystem on /tmp/foo.img to 204800 (1k) blocks. |
| 04:45.29 | ali1234 | The filesystem on /tmp/foo.img is now 204800 blocks long. |
| 04:45.45 | ali1234 | ****FILE SYSTEM WAS MODIFIED **** is a message from e2fsck |
| 04:46.22 | n810debian | i ran it with after the && from the e2fsck |
| 04:46.27 | n810debian | maybe i should run it on its own line |
| 04:47.06 | n810debian | running again |
| 04:47.11 | ali1234 | just run resize2fs |
| 04:47.20 | n810debian | won't let me input on its own line, needs e2fsck first, can i bypass that nonsense? |
| 04:47.42 | ali1234 | ? |
| 04:47.45 | ali1234 | just run it |
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| 04:48.05 | n810debian | it says e2fsck -f needs to be run first |
| 04:48.13 | Macer | wtf |
| 04:48.18 | Macer | i don't think this tb keeps time |
| 04:48.19 | Macer | at all :) |
| 04:48.23 | Macer | how lame |
| 04:48.40 | n810debian | i get this after ***FILE SYSTEM WAS MODIFIED***: 52644/157440 files (2.7% non-configuous), 314542/314572 blocks |
| 04:48.55 | ali1234 | n810debian: so resize2fs doesn't work on that image |
| 04:49.07 | n810debian | wait, its letting me input now |
| 04:49.12 | n810debian | awesome, resizing the filesystem... |
| 04:49.28 | n810debian | the filesystem on /media/mmc1/deb*ext2 is now 524287 blocks long |
| 04:50.04 | n810debian | the && doesn't work for the e2fsck and the resizefs, they have to be right after each other, each on their own line |
| 04:50.04 | luke-jr | http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/armed-house.jpg |
| 04:50.42 | n810debian | ls -l shows *.ext2 is 2147483647 |
| 04:50.48 | n810debian | should i try umounting and retry? |
| 04:50.58 | dmj7262 | http://www.dvorak.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/armed-house.jpg |
| 04:51.04 | ali1234 | n810debian: you should never run any of e2fsck or resize2fs while it is mounted |
| 04:51.10 | luke-jr | ... |
| 04:51.29 | n810debian | good thing to practice on worthless data |
| 04:52.09 | n810debian | still the ls -l *.ext2 same size after umounted |
| 04:52.19 | n810debian | assuming the closing debian script umounts the drive? |
| 04:52.25 | ali1234 | no idea |
| 04:53.32 | n810debian | let me reboot the n810 and try the commands right away after bootup |
| 04:55.30 | n810debian | no errors this time for the e2fs |
| 04:55.45 | n810debian | this time i get another message: "the filesystem is already 524287 blocks long. Nothing to do!" |
| 04:55.59 | ali1234 | sounds like it worked then |
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| 04:56.08 | wiretapped | n810debian: the size ls -l shows won't change from resize2fs, it was changed from dd |
| 04:56.20 | n810debian | booting debian |
| 04:56.48 | n810debian | nope, shows 23 mb free |
| 04:57.12 | n810debian | must be an error in the resize2fs command |
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| 04:59.13 | n810debian | should i try resize2fs with the -f flag? |
| 04:59.25 | ali1234 | no |
| 05:00.38 | n810debian | should i shrink the filesystem to minimum then expand to maximum? |
| 05:00.47 | ali1234 | you can't shrink ext2 |
| 05:00.56 | ali1234 | that i know of |
| 05:01.22 | n810debian | the manual says it supports shrinking ext2 |
| 05:02.22 | wiretapped | ali1234: btw the manual also says you can grow ext3 filesystems while they're mounted, but not ext2 |
| 05:02.34 | ali1234 | i wouldn't want to risk it |
| 05:02.42 | ali1234 | anyway, here's what i think is happening |
| 05:02.52 | ali1234 | i think the debian-easy-chroot thing has the size hardcoded |
| 05:03.11 | ali1234 | so when it mounts the image, it sees an image that's bigger than the disk, and tries to fix it |
| 05:03.26 | ali1234 | thus shrinking it back down to original size |
| 05:03.32 | wiretapped | interesting theory |
| 05:03.33 | ali1234 | because the resize2fs is clearly working |
| 05:03.58 | ali1234 | why do they even bother with a loopback image anyway? |
| 05:04.21 | wiretapped | the last time I used the easy debian package, which was before lenny was released, I resized my filesystem using dd and resize2fs and it worked. |
| 05:04.22 | n810debian | ali1234: probably a quick fix to get it working |
| 05:04.38 | n810debian | im trying to find the file to manually edit |
| 05:04.44 | ali1234 | a loopback image is more complex than just using a directory, and causes problems like this |
| 05:04.57 | ali1234 | it's also slower |
| 05:05.22 | n810debian | i'll just have to uninstall programs and compile from src to a directory outside the image |
| 05:05.41 | n810debian | reserve the image for build-essential and libraries |
| 05:06.22 | ali1234 | or just buy a decent sized sd card, format as ext2, extract the root image onto it, and use that |
| 05:06.40 | n810debian | thats what i did |
| 05:06.46 | ali1234 | no, it isn't |
| 05:06.48 | n810debian | i bought a 4 gb microSD |
| 05:06.56 | n810debian | formated it as ext2 |
| 05:07.08 | luke-jr | n810debian: meh, just use Gentoo |
| 05:07.09 | n810debian | downloaded the image onto the ext2 |
| 05:07.09 | n810debian | and used that |
| 05:07.21 | luke-jr | but 4 GB isn't really decent sized |
| 05:07.26 | luke-jr | I'd recommend at least 8 GB |
| 05:07.36 | ali1234 | luke-jr: debootstrap pwns gentoo |
| 05:07.42 | n810debian | its enought for small programs? i need 3 gb of software / OS on it |
| 05:07.42 | wiretapped | ali1234++ |
| 05:07.46 | luke-jr | ali1234: doesn't sound like it :p |
| 05:08.07 | luke-jr | shrug, I've used 6 GB of my 8 |
| 05:08.28 | ali1234 | luke-jr: the problem here is failure to use the proper tools, ie debootstrap, instead going for some kind of half assed premade rootstrap (similar to a gentoo stage 3 :P) |
| 05:08.54 | wiretapped | ask google to complete the phrase " |
| 05:08.59 | wiretapped | gentoo is for" |
| 05:09.06 | wiretapped | heh |
| 05:09.15 | n810debian | is there a mer equiv that would have expandable image? |
| 05:09.19 | luke-jr | wiretapped: on the N810, you *have* to "rice" |
| 05:09.38 | luke-jr | piece of crap has far too little RAM :p |
| 05:09.47 | n810debian | does mer run virtual like debian? |
| 05:10.24 | n810debian | !mer | n810debian |
| 05:10.39 | luke-jr | !mer |
| 05:10.43 | luke-jr | O.o |
| 05:11.02 | n810debian | no bot in here to answer my questions |
| 05:11.12 | ali1234 | luke-jr: have you talked to solar about gentoo on n810? cos i'm sure he'd be interested |
| 05:11.14 | GeneralAntilles | Not all bots use the same trigger. |
| 05:11.16 | GeneralAntilles | ~mer |
| 05:11.17 | infobot | somebody said mer was http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer |
| 05:11.57 | *** join/#maemo Hydroxid1 (n=jim@adsl-98-2.bway.net) |
| 05:11.59 | luke-jr | ali1234: he's aware of it, why? |
| 05:12.19 | ali1234 | just wondered, since he's trying to get gentoo-embedded going |
| 05:12.47 | luke-jr | I'm the one who filed bugs against the USE mask on 'kde' |
| 05:13.06 | n810debian | awe, mer doesn't run virtual like debian! |
| 05:13.32 | ali1234 | luke-jr: i use his embedded stuff on htc wizard with 64 mb, n810 by comparison is over specced |
| 05:13.41 | luke-jr | ali1234: well, I run native. |
| 05:13.51 | luke-jr | how do you get KDE to run in 64 MB? |
| 05:13.53 | ali1234 | define "native" |
| 05:14.03 | ali1234 | we don't. who the hell would want to run kde on a handheld? |
| 05:14.03 | luke-jr | ali1234: my N810 runs Gentoo like my desktop PC |
| 05:14.06 | luke-jr | ali1234: me |
| 05:14.15 | ali1234 | i dont even want to run kde on my desktop |
| 05:14.24 | luke-jr | it's not like there's a usable alternative |
| 05:14.43 | n810debian | luke-jr: fluxbox |
| 05:14.49 | ali1234 | that's like saying there's no usable alterniative to hemlock |
| 05:14.53 | wiretapped | luke-jr: you're a funny guy :) |
| 05:15.00 | luke-jr | n810debian: fluxbox isn't Qt4 |
| 05:17.33 | n810debian | #mer people are asleep |
| 05:18.46 | luke-jr | n810debian: afaik the only difference between Debian and Mer is that Mer has Hildon/Maemo bits |
| 05:18.59 | luke-jr | and Debian chroot isn't likely to work with X anyway |
| 05:19.25 | ali1234 | not without some trickery |
| 05:19.37 | ali1234 | the same tricky that's probably causing the resize to fail |
| 05:20.03 | n810debian | asking now |
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| 05:23.05 | BBNS | mmmm ... more game in extra ... |
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| 05:39.13 | RST38h | pine |
| 05:39.40 | luke-jr | nano |
| 05:39.55 | RST38h | pico! |
| 05:40.01 | derf | mutt |
| 05:40.52 | *** join/#maemo rick_ (n=rick@96.238.186.191) |
| 05:41.06 | luke-jr | kmail! |
| 05:41.19 | *** join/#maemo Openfree (n=Openfree@203.110.163.133) |
| 05:41.23 | BBNS | vim ... ? |
| 05:41.26 | derf | One of these things is not like the others... |
| 05:42.07 | BBNS | actually two i guess. o_o |
| 05:43.28 | *** join/#maemo tekojo (n=quassel@192.100.124.156) |
| 05:43.46 | tekojo | Morning! |
| 05:44.43 | RST38h | mourning indeed |
| 05:47.19 | *** join/#maemo promulo (n=romulo@189.71.122.184) |
| 05:50.23 | thux | morning |
| 05:53.57 | *** join/#maemo philipl (i=1000@c-98-234-156-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:55.26 | Proteous | moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| 05:55.28 | Proteous | rning |
| 05:56.05 | Proteous | except for it being evening and all |
| 05:56.34 | thux | 9am here |
| 05:57.15 | Proteous | 11pm here |
| 05:58.19 | Proteous | DO YOU KNOW WERE YOUR PEANUTBUTTER IS! |
| 05:58.43 | thux | wonder what is the best time zone, not greenwich mean time anyway it is mean :) |
| 05:58.54 | Proteous | heh |
| 05:59.23 | Proteous | pacific standard time is the standard |
| 05:59.26 | Proteous | that means it's better |
| 05:59.33 | Proteous | and the pacific coast rocks |
| 05:59.34 | Proteous | so :P |
| 05:59.43 | thux | sounds like it |
| 06:00.23 | suihkulokki | points Proteous to http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
| 06:01.21 | Corsac | morning |
| 06:01.29 | *** join/#maemo shdb (n=shdb@217-162-129-64.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:02.05 | luke-jr | UGT is the standard, n00bs |
| 06:02.36 | dmj7262 | techdirt has an article on the Nokia->Apple lawsuit |
| 06:03.05 | dmj7262 | http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091022/1102066639.shtml |
| 06:03.39 | dmj7262 | Please don't flood the comments with Nokia fanboy flames |
| 06:04.14 | `0660_ | why not? :P |
| 06:04.27 | dmj7262 | Though I'm sure most of us here are less fanboys than most platforms have |
| 06:04.38 | `0660_ | i thought only apple had fanboys |
| 06:04.50 | dmj7262 | Yeah, we've got nothing on them |
| 06:05.40 | dmj7262 | ...We actually complain when Nokia screws up, Apple fanboys manage to cheer every nasty move Apple makes as though it were a good thing. |
| 06:05.55 | *** join/#maemo alexga (n=alex@87.223.171.109) |
| 06:06.23 | thux | wonder is nokia's legal department as strong as microsoft's, somebody said that ms has more lawyers than coders :) |
| 06:06.32 | dmj7262 | I did just post a comment there, but tried to keep it balance |
| 06:07.44 | dmj7262 | M$ has a lot of both I think |
| 06:08.40 | BBNS | http://www.lomography.com/ hmm the photo looks amazing ... wonder if we could do the same via software on N900. |
| 06:08.42 | dmj7262 | Do Linux kernel, Debian, GNOME, etc hackers count :P |
| 06:09.06 | BBNS | dmj7262: more coders != code quality. |
| 06:09.23 | dmj7262 | never said M$ had quality code |
| 06:09.32 | dmj7262 | Maemo != WinMo |
| 06:09.45 | BBNS | how about LinMo? |
| 06:09.59 | dmj7262 | Question: Why does M$ think scrollbars are a good idea on a phone? |
| 06:10.09 | `0660_ | hmm, i think the author of that article is an apple fanboy |
| 06:10.45 | dmj7262 | particularly to use with one of those tiny rollerball mice in mobile phones |
| 06:11.04 | *** join/#maemo lpotter (n=quiggly@58.173.176.153) |
| 06:11.05 | dmj7262 | '0660_: I don't think he is |
| 06:11.24 | dmj7262 | He probably hasn't heard of Maemo though |
| 06:13.11 | `0660 | well, at least it seems that the author hasn't done any research in the case before putting the blame on nokia |
| 06:13.51 | dmj7262 | that's probably true |
| 06:13.59 | `0660 | i have read two articles about this case and i have no clue if the case is justified or not |
| 06:14.22 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (n=geaaru@79.40.30.4) |
| 06:14.33 | dmj7262 | If one didn't know Nokia's Maemo plans one probably would assume that it was a ploy to avoidinnovating |
| 06:14.52 | dmj7262 | ...any guesses as to whether Nokia is innovating? ;) |
| 06:14.56 | thux | could be true that iphone sell more |
| 06:15.02 | `0660 | arstechnica might come up with better analyzing |
| 06:15.44 | thux | at least newspaper explained why people rather buy iphone than nokia's smart phones |
| 06:15.51 | dmj7262 | techdirt is good, but focuses on other things |
| 06:16.06 | BBNS | dmj7262: market volume never means innovation. =] just see the dos versus unix war back to 80s. |
| 06:16.09 | `0660 | like? :) |
| 06:16.55 | dmj7262 | http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090929/0406186352.shtml |
| 06:17.07 | BBNS | thux: iPhone is like point and shoot. Maemo is like DSLR. |
| 06:17.14 | dmj7262 | techdirt is mostly about copyright, patents, etc |
| 06:18.22 | Corsac | isn't âlike DSLRâ a bit optimistic? |
| 06:18.51 | `0660 | http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/10/nokia-sues-apple-says-iphone-infringes-patents.ars |
| 06:19.16 | BBNS | Corsac: i believe it has such potential, don't you think? it doesn't have crappy UX, or burden of Symbian. |
| 06:19.24 | `0660 | yes, arstechnica seems to have better reporting on this |
| 06:19.28 | dmj7262 | I think he meant iphone is easy and good enough for a lot of people but photography enthusiasts prefer the freedom and capabilities of a DSLR |
| 06:19.33 | BBNS | however, the acceptance of massive market is not in our hand. |
| 06:19.55 | BBNS | dmj7262: thanks |
| 06:20.27 | BBNS | dmj7262: and N900 photo shooting is very impressive, that's the face too. |
| 06:20.36 | BBNS | s/face/fact |
| 06:20.55 | thux | some reason most people seems to like easy to use devices |
| 06:21.20 | dmj7262 | I agree. It certainly beats the n900 my old decrepit camera phone |
| 06:21.37 | dmj7262 | Now we just need easy and powerful |
| 06:21.59 | Corsac | and available |
| 06:22.01 | Corsac | :> |
| 06:22.15 | dmj7262 | Corsac: that's the missing element! |
| 06:22.31 | BBNS | thux: definitely. but the world is so big that it shouldn't just allow one system exist. |
| 06:22.56 | thux | true |
| 06:22.58 | BBNS | thux: i could hardly imagine the day of the world, only Apple thrives. |
| 06:23.03 | *** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@net-70.nrpn.net) |
| 06:23.33 | thux | world use lot of windows too |
| 06:23.38 | BBNS | it's like impose human mind to a single way of thinking. |
| 06:24.12 | BBNS | perhaps, but windows give me a such feeling that it's not as dominant as before. |
| 06:24.39 | dmj7262 | I don't think any of us want a Maemo only world, but we sure wouldn't want to be without something like it. |
| 06:26.29 | BBNS | dmj7262: i found interesting thing that open source system rarely being success in mass market. There are fewer outliers though, such as FF. Most of them only linger within community. |
| 06:26.35 | BBNS | dmj7262: or being used by power users. |
| 06:27.12 | dmj7262 | '0660_: the ars article is better, though it's worth noting that they have had several maemo 5 articles so far |
| 06:27.16 | Corsac | and FF has many issues related to its success |
| 06:27.21 | Corsac | like, it's a crap |
| 06:27.38 | Corsac | and mozilla developers aren't exactly the most unix-friendly ones |
| 06:28.15 | Corsac | maybe because of the MOCO, but they seem to now think only in terms of market-shares :/ |
| 06:28.21 | BBNS | but its popularity could not be ignored. just like iPhone or something like that. |
| 06:28.33 | `0660 | dmj7262, they have plenty more articles about iphone. they seem to be pretty balanced overall |
| 06:28.54 | BBNS | i am still not sure what's the best marketing strategy for maemo. |
| 06:29.19 | dmj7262 | didn't say that. I was just pointing out that they have a longer history of writing about Nokia's OSS doings |
| 06:30.57 | dmj7262 | FOSS software generally hasn't gained mainstream appeal, but if you look that the ones that have, you'll notice that they make themselves easy to use and available. |
| 06:31.04 | thux | what about open office vs. ms-office, is ms-office that much better that people should pay for office-suite? |
| 06:31.30 | dmj7262 | also marketing |
| 06:31.36 | `0660 | that's true, though my guess is that it didn't affect the content of this article at all |
| 06:31.38 | timeless_mbp | kicks Corsac |
| 06:31.44 | dmj7262 | Firefox had a *lot* of grassroots marketing |
| 06:31.54 | timeless_mbp | historically most firefox devs built on linux |
| 06:32.13 | timeless_mbp | with time they've switched to using OS X because the tool chain for profiling actually works |
| 06:32.20 | dmj7262 | I had heard it was slower on linux even in 1998 |
| 06:32.28 | timeless_mbp | note that Mozilla devs historically actually *worked* on profilers for linux |
| 06:32.48 | timeless_mbp | dmj7262: the linux compiler toolchain has *always* sucked |
| 06:32.52 | Corsac | timeless_mbp: I don't really talk about the pass |
| 06:33.03 | timeless_mbp | Corsac: a pass is a free pass |
| 06:33.03 | Corsac | timeless_mbp: but nowadays they're not interested in unix stuff |
| 06:33.10 | timeless_mbp | i'll give you one to find a dictionary |
| 06:33.11 | Corsac | sorry >< |
| 06:33.14 | timeless_mbp | you want "past" |
| 06:33.34 | Corsac | what about free past? |
| 06:33.35 | timeless_mbp | anyway, please don't rant about open source software vendors here |
| 06:33.47 | timeless_mbp | it's inappropriate and highly offensive |
| 06:34.28 | thux | some poor villages near by just paid 180.000e for ms-office 2007 |
| 06:34.32 | Corsac | well, there's a part of rant, sure, but those are fact (and, tbh, they do what they want, nobody force them to do either) |
| 06:34.49 | Corsac | it's just that, as a unix user, I'm now disapointed |
| 06:34.54 | Corsac | (sorry, eot) |
| 06:34.56 | thux | open office would have been cheaper |
| 06:36.14 | dmj7262 | Sometimes the MS Office decision is made without *really* knowing about the OO.o alternative. Other times it's because the M$ product isactually worth it to them. |
| 06:36.27 | timeless_mbp | your disappointment is misdirected |
| 06:36.35 | timeless_mbp | go blame the linux toolchain for sucking |
| 06:36.47 | timeless_mbp | start w/ gcc (historically, and in fact up to today) |
| 06:37.01 | dmj7262 | There is a lot of work on FF to make it be as fast as possible on linux |
| 06:37.32 | `0660 | yeah, it seems to be targeted to windows first |
| 06:37.54 | timeless_mbp | shrugs |
| 06:37.58 | thux | why browser should be so fast? |
| 06:37.58 | BBNS | with Sun's fate, i wonder OO.o would still be as active. |
| 06:38.02 | timeless_mbp | i've been working on gecko for 10 years |
| 06:38.04 | dmj7262 | Of courseM$ manages to make Firefox insecure. |
| 06:38.14 | timeless_mbp | very little if anything is targeted at windows first |
| 06:38.27 | timeless_mbp | sure windows os integration w/ help from ms is targeted at windows |
| 06:38.35 | timeless_mbp | btu you can hardly blame anyone for that |
| 06:38.38 | *** join/#maemo Wikier (n=wikier@cm-staticIP-85-152-18-129.telecable.es) |
| 06:38.42 | dmj7262 | Linux distros don't add security holes to Firefox |
| 06:38.48 | timeless_mbp | coughs |
| 06:38.49 | timeless_mbp | not true |
| 06:38.53 | timeless_mbp | Maemo certainly does |
| 06:38.58 | timeless_mbp | and has for a couple of major releases |
| 06:39.01 | luke-jr | timeless_mbp: then why is it that Mozilla products work better in WINE than Linux native? ;) |
| 06:39.07 | timeless_mbp | and i think ubuntu and a few others have |
| 06:39.14 | dmj7262 | compiler toolchain |
| 06:39.19 | timeless_mbp | luke-jr: as i said, the linux toolchain, esp the compiler, sucks |
| 06:39.25 | timeless_mbp | that's the proof text |
| 06:39.34 | dmj7262 | how have they added holes to firefox? |
| 06:39.47 | thux | cause gecko experts around can you make webpage to call xterm through gecko? |
| 06:39.58 | timeless_mbp | rebuild mozilla using gcc for windows and try running it on wine w/ linux |
| 06:40.02 | timeless_mbp | it won't be fast |
| 06:40.21 | timeless_mbp | thux: there was one years ago |
| 06:40.36 | thux | but not now? |
| 06:40.52 | timeless_mbp | "xmlterm" |
| 06:40.58 | Corsac | timeless_mbp: xulrunner^Wfirefox for OSX is not built with gcc? |
| 06:41.04 | thux | ok |
| 06:41.11 | timeless_mbp | Corsac: it is |
| 06:41.15 | Corsac | ok |
| 06:41.18 | dmj7262 | how is firefox on linux made insecure? |
| 06:41.21 | *** join/#maemo danielwilms (n=dwilms@147.243.155.42) |
| 06:41.30 | timeless_mbp | dmj7262: i have a meeting that started 10mins ago |
| 06:41.37 | timeless_mbp | and i'm roughly 15mins away |
| 06:41.41 | timeless_mbp | but a short list: |
| 06:41.42 | Corsac | nice |
| 06:42.11 | *** join/#maemo L0cutus_ (n=kki@host-84-223-127-62.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 06:42.16 | timeless_mbp | 1. nokia management made it so that clicking on .install files in the browser automatically runs them |
| 06:42.29 | timeless_mbp | that means that it's easy to game users into adding repositories directly |
| 06:42.40 | timeless_mbp | that's a Maemo version of making the browser insecure |
| 06:42.41 | dmj7262 | eww |
| 06:42.54 | timeless_mbp | similar random evil things have been done by other groups |
| 06:42.59 | thux | as a noob i have never understand why distros let the browser take so much cpu |
| 06:43.00 | dmj7262 | no notice that it's going to do that? |
| 06:43.12 | timeless_mbp | the notice is me telling you that now |
| 06:43.21 | *** join/#maemo _marcell_ (n=malengye@192.100.124.219) |
| 06:43.22 | dmj7262 | yuck |
| 06:43.24 | timeless_mbp | if you look at the history of why debian doesn't have firefox branding |
| 06:43.31 | dmj7262 | I can understand it installing them |
| 06:43.39 | timeless_mbp | you'll find that debian broke security features |
| 06:43.43 | dmj7262 | but there should be a message first, like |
| 06:43.43 | timeless_mbp | (that's 2.) |
| 06:43.50 | timeless_mbp | oh, there's a message |
| 06:43.53 | timeless_mbp | but the problem is |
| 06:43.58 | timeless_mbp | users are gameable |
| 06:44.04 | dmj7262 | "You are about to install software. Be sure this is what you want." |
| 06:44.07 | thux | i myself would reduce the amount of cpu that gecko can use |
| 06:44.07 | timeless_mbp | you can convince them to click on one position of your choice |
| 06:44.18 | dmj7262 | thux: you can |
| 06:44.22 | danielwilms | just a short notice: maemo.org is down right now due to network problems |
| 06:44.23 | timeless_mbp | and the position needed is fixed |
| 06:44.35 | Corsac | timeless_mbp: no it's not, btw |
| 06:44.41 | timeless_mbp | Corsac: which is not? |
| 06:44.46 | Corsac | (about debian vs. firefox branding) |
| 06:44.55 | timeless_mbp | Corsac: i was involved in it |
| 06:44.58 | timeless_mbp | i know what i'm talking about |
| 06:45.04 | timeless_mbp | i reviewed there patches |
| 06:45.35 | *** join/#maemo sphenxes (n=sphenxes@85-127-220-70.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 06:45.54 | timeless_mbp | grumbles |
| 06:45.55 | timeless_mbp | tigert: ping |
| 06:46.16 | *** join/#maemo tekojo_ (n=quassel@192.100.124.156) |
| 06:47.37 | tigert | ack |
| 06:47.56 | timeless_mbp | sorry, i needed a phone number, found it in calendar |
| 06:48.02 | tigert | ok |
| 06:48.19 | timeless_mbp | thanks for ponging |
| 06:48.36 | timeless_mbp | needs to figure out why a bunch of Address Book entries are empty |
| 06:48.42 | timeless_mbp | including this one :( |
| 06:49.33 | Corsac | timeless_mbp: I'm sure you're aware, and I guess it's enough trolling for this morning, but still. http://glandium.org/blog/?p=99 |
| 06:49.43 | Corsac | (and now I'm off to work and you to your meeting :) ) |
| 06:49.57 | thux | i like about:config even noobs can tune browser to behave like they want |
| 06:50.41 | *** join/#maemo vasily_pupkin (n=user@91.200.156.211) |
| 06:54.15 | dmj7262 | I wouldn't trust my mom with about:config |
| 06:54.29 | timeless_mbp | Corsac: wrong set of patches |
| 06:54.37 | timeless_mbp | the debian patch that was interesting was older |
| 06:54.42 | timeless_mbp | now thanks for wasting my time |
| 06:55.00 | *** join/#maemo jbn (n=jbn@130.237.210.235) |
| 06:55.12 | timeless_mbp | the interesting patches from memory were in the ff1.5 range |
| 06:55.21 | dmj7262 | Can the n900 IM client do irc? |
| 06:55.49 | timeless_mbp | dmj7262: kinda? |
| 06:55.54 | timeless_mbp | there's no ui for group chat |
| 06:56.03 | timeless_mbp | which should make "doing" irc "interesting" |
| 06:56.23 | timeless_mbp | note that you need to install telepathy-idle or something to get the irc backend |
| 06:56.40 | dmj7262 | ah...would pidgin work better for that? |
| 06:56.46 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 06:56.50 | timeless_mbp | shrugs |
| 06:56.59 | timeless_mbp | i prefer screen+ircii/epic |
| 06:57.56 | vasily_pupkin | ah |
| 06:58.07 | vasily_pupkin | pidgin not working for me at all |
| 06:58.11 | vasily_pupkin | as for now O_o |
| 06:58.30 | tigert | never liked irc software with a GUI |
| 06:58.32 | timeless_mbp | fwiw, i think i prefer http://pthree.org/2006/10/17/firefox-forgive-me/ |
| 06:58.50 | timeless_mbp | you can try xchat too |
| 06:58.52 | *** join/#maemo ryoohki (n=ryoohki@208.96.15.252) |
| 07:00.01 | Stskeeps | prefers irssi |
| 07:01.12 | BBNS | yikes ... the maemo.org looks messy right now. |
| 07:01.13 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 07:01.43 | timeless_mbp | [9:44am] <danielwilms> just a short notice: maemo.org is down right now due to network problems |
| 07:02.07 | timoph | seems to be working again |
| 07:02.10 | BBNS | timeless_mbp: i though "down" means unreachable. =P |
| 07:03.06 | danielwilms | BBNS it was unreachable for a while...should be up again now |
| 07:03.40 | timeless_mbp | bbns: being down can often mean coming up to a rocky start |
| 07:03.43 | BBNS | danielwilms: ah thanks. =P maybe it should be down a bit longer so that i could write a little more code. |
| 07:03.44 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (n=millenom@93-35-148-155.ip55.fastwebnet.it) |
| 07:03.50 | timeless_mbp | he box for "Advanced Power 0.4.0-7" should have scrollbars |
| 07:03.59 | timeless_mbp | s/h/th/ |
| 07:04.08 | *** join/#maemo trickie (n=trickie@94.100.112.225) |
| 07:04.11 | danielwilms | BBNS :) |
| 07:04.34 | timeless_mbp | danielwilms: |
| 07:04.40 | timeless_mbp | Events Feed |
| 07:04.40 | timeless_mbp | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:05.08 | timeless_mbp | danielwilms: could you make the file system less readonly? |
| 07:05.48 | tekojo | timeless_mbp that should go away with a reload |
| 07:06.05 | timeless_mbp | nope |
| 07:07.11 | BBNS | hmm ... btw, anyway to sync Ovi calendar on N900? or right now only MFE syncs calendar? |
| 07:07.39 | timeless_mbp | right now someone was afraid of MfE |
| 07:07.44 | timeless_mbp | although i didn't quite understand why |
| 07:07.47 | timeless_mbp | i'm using it |
| 07:08.00 | timeless_mbp | (note that something ate some phone numbers, probably MfE) |
| 07:08.13 | tekojo | timeless_mbp is there a firewall between you and maemo.org? |
| 07:08.26 | `0660 | timeless_mbp, i think the current situation is best with debian and firefox |
| 07:08.46 | timeless_mbp | tekojo: does elisa include firewalls for its dsl subscribers? |
| 07:08.48 | `0660 | i don't mind that firefox is called iceweasel in debian |
| 07:08.53 | tekojo | timels |
| 07:09.13 | timeless_mbp | `0660: oh, i didn't say today was as bad |
| 07:09.19 | tekojo | no they shouldn't, which page is acting up after a shift+reload? |
| 07:09.31 | timeless_mbp | someone asked a generic "do linux distros ever break firefox security" question |
| 07:09.31 | timeless_mbp | the answer is "yes" |
| 07:09.37 | BBNS | timeless_mbp: hmm ... MFE only supports one account. :-/ or I could be wrong? |
| 07:09.48 | timeless_mbp | bbns: officially that's correct |
| 07:10.01 | timeless_mbp | i'm told that most of the backend doesn't care |
| 07:10.14 | timeless_mbp | although there is a bit of ui glue stuff in a few places |
| 07:10.22 | BBNS | timeless_mbp: i heard the keyword, "official", means there is other way. |
| 07:10.29 | timeless_mbp | heard on the phone, "Sorry, my Meek was IN mute" |
| 07:10.46 | `0660 | hmm. isn't the right answer no? debian has it's own security system in place for iceweasel which is not firefox :( |
| 07:10.54 | `0660 | -( +) |
| 07:11.25 | timeless_mbp | `0660: i mentioned two vendors (debian [circa ff1.0/1.5], and maemo) |
| 07:11.41 | timeless_mbp | the answer is that vendors can and do break security in browsers |
| 07:12.18 | ali1234 | *cough* ssl rng *cough* |
| 07:12.19 | BBNS | oooh ... Maemo Developer Day in Denmark ... so tempting ... :-/ |
| 07:12.20 | timeless_mbp | note that debian also broke security for all browsers which visited servers for which debian software was used to issue SSL certificates (yay debianSSL) |
| 07:12.36 | `0660 | breaking security = replacing firefox updates with distro specific mechanisms? |
| 07:12.38 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (n=millenom@93-35-148-155.ip55.fastwebnet.it) |
| 07:12.41 | Stskeeps | BBNS: aren't you like far away from that? :P |
| 07:12.42 | timeless_mbp | `0660: no |
| 07:12.47 | timeless_mbp | breaking security = breaking security |
| 07:12.54 | timeless_mbp | not breaking security updates |
| 07:13.06 | BBNS | Stskeeps: yeah ... and i doubt i would have budget. |
| 07:13.20 | Stskeeps | BBNS: there should be in other cities too |
| 07:13.22 | *** join/#maemo LB (n=LB@58.109.165.30) |
| 07:13.30 | `0660 | wouldn't the operating system be always break the security? |
| 07:13.34 | BBNS | Stskeeps: make it in LA ... |
| 07:13.49 | *** join/#maemo hally (n=ehalmans@dhcp-077-248-200-075.chello.nl) |
| 07:13.52 | timeless_mbp | `0660: what's interesting is what bogus patches vendors add to browsers |
| 07:14.04 | timeless_mbp | ideally vendors will eventually drop their bogus patches |
| 07:14.17 | `0660 | that would be ideal yes |
| 07:14.18 | timeless_mbp | in debian's case, i think they were dropped by 2.0 |
| 07:14.26 | *** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@nemein.suvilahti.nemein.net) |
| 07:15.01 | timeless_mbp | but the problem w/ debian was that they didn't make it easy for upstream to review their patches |
| 07:15.01 | timeless_mbp | and i don't mean "tossing patches to bug trackers" |
| 07:15.02 | `0660 | but isn't firefox dynamically compiled on every platform anyway? |
| 07:15.02 | timeless_mbp | debianSSL is another good demo of that |
| 07:15.04 | timeless_mbp | `0660: eh? |
| 07:15.10 | timeless_mbp | "dynamically compiled"? |
| 07:15.15 | `0660 | :P |
| 07:15.28 | timeless_mbp | anyway, i have work to do |
| 07:15.30 | timeless_mbp | can we drop this? |
| 07:15.37 | `0660 | ok :) |
| 07:15.43 | timeless_mbp | the point is that vendors can and do include at times patches which are bad for security |
| 07:15.54 | timeless_mbp | at this point nokia is a much bigger offender than debian |
| 07:15.55 | `0660 | that's true |
| 07:16.05 | timeless_mbp | but that's not relevant to the general statement that vendors can and do so |
| 07:16.22 | timeless_mbp | it's also incredibly inconvenient for me as i work for nokia on the affected upstream |
| 07:16.29 | `0660 | and of course sometimes it's the other way around |
| 07:16.46 | timeless_mbp | ponders |
| 07:17.07 | timeless_mbp | fwiw, i failed to attend my meeting in person because of chatter ;( |
| 07:17.31 | `0660 | sorry for delaying you :) |
| 07:17.52 | timeless_mbp | `0660: if you mean that sometimes patches which are buggy are integrated, resulting in a net increase in security vulnerabilities... |
| 07:17.57 | timeless_mbp | then yes, that does happen |
| 07:18.20 | *** join/#maemo AD-N770 (n=jep@24.Red-80-26-22.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 07:18.32 | timeless_mbp | however, in general, we like to think that it's lower proportionally to the number of committed patches than a downstream's |
| 07:18.46 | timeless_mbp | shrugs |
| 07:19.08 | timeless_mbp | again, i'd rather drop this... |
| 07:19.28 | `0660 | just go to your meeting already :) |
| 07:19.50 | *** part/#maemo jbn (n=jbn@130.237.210.235) |
| 07:20.04 | timeless_mbp | http://www.n97n900.com/2009/06/30/issues-with-ovi-sync/ |
| 07:20.08 | timeless_mbp | it already ended! |
| 07:20.34 | timeless_mbp | next meeting is after lunch |
| 07:20.41 | timeless_mbp | so i just need to go to lunch soon |
| 07:21.28 | *** join/#maemo ad-n770 (n=somebody@24.Red-80-26-22.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 07:22.40 | BBNS | timeless_mbp: another ovi UX horror? :Q |
| 07:23.06 | timeless_mbp | bbns: personally, if ovi sync were available, i'd probably wait :) |
| 07:23.26 | timeless_mbp | tries to remember if calendar supports ics subscription urls |
| 07:23.29 | timeless_mbp | thinks it does |
| 07:23.41 | *** join/#maemo t0h (i=thelinev@nikita.tnnet.fi) |
| 07:23.52 | *** join/#maemo argontus (i=argontus@nikita.tnnet.fi) |
| 07:24.31 | *** join/#maemo marant (i=marant@nikita.tnnet.fi) |
| 07:24.31 | Jaffa | timeless_mbp: I don't think it exposes it in the UI if it does |
| 07:24.31 | BBNS | timeless_mbp: didn't find this option ... :-/ |
| 07:24.31 | timeless_mbp | Jaffa: i've translated the strings for it... |
| 07:24.31 | Jaffa | timeless_mbp: If it did, it'd make Google sync much nicer than Mail for Exchange |
| 07:24.43 | BBNS | please make this feature available! *droll* |
| 07:24.44 | *** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@stgt-5d84931b.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 07:24.52 | *** join/#maemo Openfree` (n=Openfree@203.110.163.133) |
| 07:24.53 | BBNS | then my wish is completed! |
| 07:25.06 | Jaffa | timeless_mbp: The "New Calendar" wizard looks like it may have been able to do it, but all you can do is create a new local calendar. |
| 07:25.11 | Jaffa | wonders about poking around in gconf ;-) |
| 07:25.17 | *** join/#maemo elysion (n=mikoki@81-175-179-250.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 07:25.17 | timeless_mbp | yeah, i just walked through the wizard |
| 07:26.15 | timeless_mbp | so, at the very least we "support" MfE and PCSuite syncing |
| 07:26.22 | BBNS | o.o create a local calendar then point to some url you mean? |
| 07:26.43 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 07:26.44 | BBNS | timeless_mbp: don't have Windows available. :-/ PCSuite is not an option. |
| 07:26.48 | timeless_mbp | signs that someone isn't thinking |
| 07:26.53 | timeless_mbp | bbns: Wine? :) |
| 07:27.06 | timeless_mbp | "cal_va_and" "and" |
| 07:27.06 | timeless_mbp | yeah, that works |
| 07:27.45 | BBNS | i would rather like to have multi-MFEs ... /_\ |
| 07:27.52 | timeless_mbp | "cal_ib_calendar_added_web" |
| 07:27.57 | timeless_mbp | that's the string |
| 07:28.11 | *** join/#maemo sleipnir (i=3e501154@gateway/web/freenode/x-wijmmsxmitevdqqz) |
| 07:28.13 | fatal^ | is there a maemo mapper for n900 yet? Does anyone know if there's already a porting effort? |
| 07:28.18 | Jaffa | timeless_mbp: Ta |
| 07:28.26 | timeless_mbp | the string is very odd |
| 07:28.29 | Jaffa | fatal^: No and no (i.e. I don't know) |
| 07:28.44 | timeless_mbp | a hypothetical comment implies that they're talking about URLs |
| 07:28.57 | timeless_mbp | and a moment later it talks about files |
| 07:29.03 | timeless_mbp | hypothetically of course |
| 07:29.11 | Jaffa | timeless_mbp: Ah. The "web" suffix implies URLs too |
| 07:29.12 | timeless_mbp | since ids come from .mo files :) |
| 07:29.13 | Jaffa | Of course |
| 07:29.25 | Stskeeps | fatal^: there's an effort, not sure how far they are |
| 07:29.37 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (n=JRocha@91.117.99.155) |
| 07:29.38 | timeless_mbp | anyway, worst case, you should be able to cheat by using cron + wget to update the file |
| 07:29.45 | timeless_mbp | if calendar gets that wrong, please file a bug |
| 07:29.58 | Jaffa | timeless_mbp: There's no UI for selecting a file either, AFAICT |
| 07:30.11 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@91.115.220.197) |
| 07:30.12 | timeless_mbp | i haven't seen a ui string for that, no |
| 07:30.21 | timeless_mbp | i think you use file manager or a command line |
| 07:30.42 | timeless_mbp | but that wasn't the question ;-) |
| 07:31.11 | elysion | anyone know how to disable the screen saver in applications in maemo 5? |
| 07:31.19 | fatal^ | Stskeeps: do you know where I should look to get involved? |
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| 07:31.36 | Jaffa | elysion: There was a thing you could poke in Maemo 4, I assume it's the same. Look at, for example, the FlipClock or Maemo Mapper source code |
| 07:31.55 | Stskeeps | fatal^: i think their svn is getting updated on garage |
| 07:31.57 | elysion | Jaffa: ok, thanks, will look into those |
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| 07:44.31 | timeless_mbp | ponders |
| 07:44.45 | timeless_mbp | should convert mxr from using svn for garage to using hg for garage :) |
| 07:44.50 | timeless_mbp | that'd be a good start |
| 07:45.07 | timeless_mbp | it'd save me lots of space and time |
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| 07:45.37 | lbt_ | thinks timeless_mbp means git, not hg |
| 07:45.42 | timeless_mbp | nope |
| 07:45.47 | timeless_mbp | i don't have backend support for git |
| 07:45.53 | lbt_ | feels sorry for timeless_mbp |
| 07:45.55 | timeless_mbp | but i can convert git to hg and svn to hg |
| 07:46.22 | timeless_mbp | git isn't a problem specifically, it just isn't something i've spent time adding support for |
| 07:46.30 | lbt_ | np |
| 07:46.32 | timeless_mbp | the advantage of git over svn is space savings |
| 07:46.40 | lbt_ | enjoys teasing people over git |
| 07:46.47 | lbt_ | but I'm not religous |
| 07:46.50 | timeless_mbp | the advantage of hg over svn is space savings + bonsai |
| 07:47.24 | timeless_mbp | the problem of course is that to do it, i'd have to figure out how to convert my meta data about where trunks are in svn into something for the converter tool |
| 07:47.35 | timeless_mbp | and the garage svn's are a mess |
| 07:48.24 | timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/find?string=trunk%2F[^%2F]*%24 |
| 07:48.52 | timeless_mbp | note that in a sane and easy to deal w/ system, trunk should always be the second level of the tree |
| 07:48.57 | timeless_mbp | then check out vpnc and pymaemo |
| 07:49.26 | timeless_mbp | or telardcci |
| 07:49.37 | timeless_mbp | oops |
| 07:49.39 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 07:49.48 | timeless_mbp | it seems like i didn't correctly deal w/ telardcci |
| 07:49.52 | timeless_mbp | kicks it |
| 07:50.06 | timeless_mbp | compare: http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/source/telardcci/contextDataProviders/telargps/ |
| 07:50.20 | timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/source/pymaemo/packages/cython/ |
| 07:51.06 | timeless_mbp | any time you see a symlink in my garage xref, it means that i manually "fixed" the directory to omit things which aren't trunkish (branches, tags) |
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| 08:01.29 | sgbirch | Anybody want to chat about maemo, I want to clear up some of my own cofusion (I have a N810 and am considering a n900) |
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| 08:01.36 | Stskeeps | just ask :) |
| 08:02.06 | sgbirch | well .. I have a few things that confuse. Lets start with the name. OS2008, Maemo, chinook, diablu |
| 08:02.11 | Jaffa | Any gtk+ experts want to tell me how I can add a GtkHButtonBox to a GtkWindow about 2/3rds of the way down the screen, rather than padding it in the middle? |
| 08:02.12 | sgbirch | all of these confuse me |
| 08:02.19 | Stskeeps | sgbirch: http://wiki.maemo.org/Codenames |
| 08:02.25 | RST38h | sgbirch: Maemo is the overall name |
| 08:02.37 | RST38h | sgbirch: Chinook, Diablo, and Fremantle are names for particular versions |
| 08:02.47 | sgbirch | and os2008? |
| 08:02.55 | sgbirch | I am looking at the page btw |
| 08:03.01 | RST38h | sgbirch: it is a synonym for Diablo and Chinook |
| 08:03.08 | RST38h | Chinook is OS2008, Diablo is OS2008.1 |
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| 08:03.16 | Jaffa | sgbirch: OS2008 is the "external" name of Chinook and Diablo (which are codenames) |
| 08:03.23 | RST38h | Both can be calles OS2008 though, as they are very similar |
| 08:03.24 | sgbirch | Does the n900 run os2009? |
| 08:03.37 | Stskeeps | it runs Maemo5.0 / Fremantle |
| 08:03.40 | RST38h | Yes, if you use this naming scheme |
| 08:03.50 | sgbirch | ok |
| 08:03.54 | RST38h | But more popular names are Maemo5 and Fremantle |
| 08:04.01 | sgbirch | ok |
| 08:04.05 | RST38h | Using the same scheme, Chinook/Diablo are Maemo4 |
| 08:04.07 | Jaffa | sgbirch: However, Nokia have dropped the OS200x naming scheme. Instead, it's Maemo 5. |
| 08:04.13 | sgbirch | probably wise |
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| 08:04.30 | RST38h | Dunno, I think if you say OS2009 nobody but a few wikipedians will care |
| 08:04.36 | sgbirch | it is the proliferation of overlapping names which causes the confusion, at least in my mind |
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| 08:05.03 | RST38h | it is pretty clear, actually. If you want overlapping names, check Intel =) |
| 08:05.11 | sgbirch | no kidding |
| 08:05.19 | sgbirch | or Microsoft |
| 08:05.35 | mgedmin | Jaffa: put it into a GtkAlignment (iirc) and set the alignment to 0.666 |
| 08:05.39 | sgbirch | new version of Vista is called Windows 7 for goodness sake |
| 08:05.40 | Jaffa | mgedmin: Ta |
| 08:05.48 | sgbirch | ok .. so |
| 08:06.03 | sgbirch | I think I get the names |
| 08:06.20 | sgbirch | kinda |
| 08:06.27 | mgedmin | Jaffa: http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/sec-Alignment.html |
| 08:06.34 | Jaffa | mgedmin: Got it. Ta |
| 08:06.37 | sgbirch | I am hearing that OS200x will be dropped, but that seems to be big on the maemo site |
| 08:06.55 | RST38h | sgbirch: for all practical purposes you can still ose OS200x |
| 08:06.57 | RST38h | use |
| 08:07.12 | RST38h | sgbirch: So, just choose whatever name you like best and use it |
| 08:07.15 | sgbirch | RST38h: but .. my next stop is to sources.list |
| 08:07.25 | sgbirch | (I am very experienced Linux user) |
| 08:07.26 | *** join/#maemo gaspa (n=gaspa@88.61.118.134) |
| 08:07.27 | RST38h | and what is there? |
| 08:07.48 | sgbirch | well .. nothing, so I deduce that hildon-application-manager.list is used instead |
| 08:07.49 | sgbirch | ? |
| 08:08.03 | sgbirch | is /etc/apt/sources.list.d |
| 08:08.12 | mgedmin | well, yes |
| 08:08.16 | mgedmin | standard apt stuff |
| 08:08.17 | sgbirch | btw ... I am not critical of any of this, I LOVE the device. |
| 08:08.26 | mgedmin | /etc/apt/sources.list + /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list |
| 08:08.34 | Corsac | timeless: is garage somewhat related to gforge? |
| 08:08.40 | Corsac | fusionforge I mean |
| 08:08.52 | sgbirch | oh .. ok |
| 08:09.16 | sgbirch | sources.list.d must be dpkg (or apt) extension I have not used before, I assume it isnt specific to the Nxxx |
| 08:09.29 | sgbirch | ok .. that makes sense |
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| 08:10.39 | sgbirch | Can I post my hildon-application-manager.list here, it is about 15 lines? |
| 08:10.53 | mgedmin | use a pastebin |
| 08:11.02 | RST38h | pastebin indeed |
| 08:11.23 | sgbirch | how do I get to that (dont use IRC much) |
| 08:12.02 | mgedmin | go to http://pastie.org or some other site of your preference |
| 08:12.04 | mgedmin | paste your text here |
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| 08:12.16 | mgedmin | s/here/there/ |
| 08:12.17 | KMFDM | then post the link here |
| 08:12.17 | mgedmin | paste the link you get from the pastebin here |
| 08:12.44 | sgbirch | http://pastie.org/666365 |
| 08:12.49 | sgbirch | cool |
| 08:13.17 | RST38h | so, what are we supposed to see there? |
| 08:13.39 | sgbirch | well .. I see a mix of chinook and diablo |
| 08:13.51 | RST38h | Looks ok. The Mozilla source is kinda strange but it is probably Fennec? |
| 08:13.56 | sgbirch | not sure how .. is that correct |
| 08:13.59 | RST38h | mix of chinook and diablo is generally ok |
| 08:14.00 | sgbirch | fennec .. yes |
| 08:14.19 | RST38h | it is not advised but some packages have never been moved to Diablo, so it makes sense |
| 08:14.21 | sgbirch | that seems pretty strange to my eye |
| 08:14.29 | sgbirch | oh |
| 08:14.34 | RST38h | Chinook and Diablo are more or less the same system |
| 08:14.46 | RST38h | Now, if you had Fremantle repos there I would be worried |
| 08:14.47 | sgbirch | yes, this is strange |
| 08:14.51 | sgbirch | lol |
| 08:15.08 | sgbirch | any idea why diabli wasnt released with a clean compile of all apps? |
| 08:15.14 | sgbirch | diablo* |
| 08:15.35 | mgedmin | it wasn't? |
| 08:16.05 | sgbirch | mgedmin: RST38h said that "some packages have never been moved to Diablo" |
| 08:16.31 | mgedmin | for example? |
| 08:16.33 | Corsac | (was there any E* release?) |
| 08:16.52 | Corsac | or E* and G* are unreleased development stuff? |
| 08:16.58 | sgbirch | RST38h: can you give an example of packages in Chinook but not Diablo? |
| 08:17.15 | RST38h | No. Check the repos. |
| 08:17.34 | sgbirch | mgedmin: if that info was incorrect, then it makes no sense to have chinook lines in sources.list, correct? |
| 08:17.36 | Mek | e* was skippped, gregale was already released earlier |
| 08:17.52 | sgbirch | mgedmin: should I remove them |
| 08:18.25 | mgedmin | only if you will not miss any software you're currently getting from them, sgbirch |
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| 08:18.43 | sgbirch | mgedmin: ok. That leads me to the next question |
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| 08:19.04 | sgbirch | mgedmin: I am really surprised at how infrequently the software is upgraded on the N810 |
| 08:19.16 | mgedmin | had decided to be a good boy somewhere around that time and only had maemo extras for diablo in his sources.list |
| 08:19.35 | mgedmin | tried to rebuild missing packages in scratchbox and upload them all to extras, for values of "missing packages" important to him only |
| 08:20.52 | sgbirch | mgedmin: compared to desktop distros (debian, ubuntu, red hat etc), the n810 is almost never upgradede |
| 08:21.09 | sgbirch | I would expect a trickle of updates with at least a few every month |
| 08:21.09 | mgedmin | is that a question? |
| 08:21.27 | sgbirch | mgedmin: observation, the question is .. why so few? |
| 08:21.50 | RST38h | You should direct this question at Nokia |
| 08:21.54 | RST38h | None of us know why |
| 08:22.03 | mgedmin | well, nokia releases SSUs from time to time |
| 08:22.15 | mgedmin | we have no idea when or why |
| 08:22.25 | mgedmin | and for packages in extras, they're community-maintained |
| 08:22.30 | sgbirch | mgedmin: yes .. I didnt understand that when they made the great decision to use dpkg |
| 08:22.37 | mgedmin | new updates appear when somebody makes a release |
| 08:22.53 | mgedmin | only the community is not as large or vibrant as the ones for debian/ubuntu/red hat etc. |
| 08:22.57 | mgedmin | yet (hopefully) |
| 08:23.04 | sgbirch | mgedmin: ahh |
| 08:23.10 | Jaffa | Hmm. Latest Karmic update seems to have broken Scratchbox |
| 08:23.30 | sgbirch | mgedmin: I tried to find the list of sources at the maemo web site |
| 08:23.32 | sgbirch | no luck |
| 08:23.51 | mgedmin | sgbirch: it's recommended to only have a few standard repost |
| 08:23.56 | sgbirch | I see applications .. they invite me to click to download, but I dont see how that ties in with apt/dpkg |
| 08:23.57 | RST38h | list of sources for what? |
| 08:24.00 | mgedmin | such as the nokia repo and maemo extras |
| 08:24.17 | sgbirch | RST38h: repository sources for sources.list |
| 08:24.26 | mgedmin | the "click to download" stuff gives you a small text file which contains information about the apt repository and the package name |
| 08:24.39 | mgedmin | ideally the apt repository is always maemo extras |
| 08:24.41 | RST38h | A click on the .install file from the tablet will make it load that file into app manager and install the package based on the repo information there |
| 08:24.48 | mgedmin | think of extras as like the ubuntu universe |
| 08:24.56 | mgedmin | packages not officially supported, but maintained by volunteers |
| 08:24.58 | RST38h | sgbirch: why should they be at the web site? |
| 08:25.22 | RST38h | You have got the list in your tablet, haven't you? |
| 08:25.46 | sgbirch | RST38h: yes .. but, for example, I hear you talk about extras .. but I dont see it in my list |
| 08:25.58 | sgbirch | RST38h: so I go to the web site to find it .. cant find out |
| 08:26.15 | RST38h | sgbirch: http://repository.maemo.org/ |
| 08:26.46 | sgbirch | RST38h: I think the problem is this, Nxxx is part geek appearl and part consumer |
| 08:27.05 | sgbirch | RST38h: it is difficult for the former to get info about internals |
| 08:27.17 | RST38h | difficult? hmm |
| 08:27.21 | RST38h | has not found it difficult |
| 08:27.43 | sgbirch | RST38h: That is what I need, how would I have navigated there from the maemo.org site as a new user of maemo? |
| 08:27.52 | mgedmin | http://repository.maemo.org/ has many repositories, actually |
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| 08:28.21 | sgbirch | mgedmin: yes .. it is good. But I had to ask here to find that page. How else would I have known it was there? |
| 08:29.02 | mgedmin | well, in diablo and fremantle extras is preconfigured |
| 08:29.12 | mgedmin | you have to go to the app manager and enable it, it's added but disabled by default |
| 08:29.59 | sgbirch | mgedmin: it sounds like extras is the most important section :-) |
| 08:30.12 | mgedmin | well ... |
| 08:30.15 | mgedmin | shrugs |
| 08:30.23 | mgedmin | most important to whom? |
| 08:30.28 | sgbirch | mgedmin: community driven software is what sets this device apart from (say) android |
| 08:30.34 | mgedmin | power-users -- yes |
| 08:30.49 | mgedmin | for various levels of "power", I suppose |
| 08:31.02 | sgbirch | mgedmin: that may be my problem .. I dont use the gui stuff much |
| 08:31.15 | mgedmin | ssh + sudo apt-get is quicker, yes |
| 08:31.20 | sgbirch | mgedmin: so .. my instinct is to fire up a shell and go look |
| 08:31.50 | sgbirch | my ssh link to the dev keeps dropping |
| 08:32.06 | sgbirch | does it shut down when the device darkens the screen, to save power perhaps? |
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| 08:34.40 | sgbirch | mgedmin: how does your own sources.list appear, if you dont mind me asking? |
| 08:34.55 | mgedmin | on my n810 or my n900? |
| 08:35.06 | sgbirch | mgedmin: you LUCK guy |
| 08:35.11 | sgbirch | mgedmin: n810 :-) |
| 08:35.30 | sgbirch | mgedmin: ok .. now I am green. I want a n900 so bad it hurts |
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| 08:36.00 | sgbirch | mgedmin: are you a professional developer on this platform? |
| 08:36.05 | mgedmin | http://pastie.org/666381 |
| 08:36.14 | mgedmin | I'm not getting paid for developing on maemo, no |
| 08:36.22 | mgedmin | and I'm not developing on maemo either, in fact ;) |
| 08:36.32 | mgedmin | I'd describe myself as a power user |
| 08:36.33 | sgbirch | mgedmin: Not .. THAT is more like it, nice clean sources.list file |
| 08:36.51 | mgedmin | I think the fbreader repo is not necessary; fbreader is in extras |
| 08:37.01 | sgbirch | do you find sshd reliable, it keeps dropping my link |
| 08:37.07 | mgedmin | at some point extras had an older version (0.8) than fbreader.org (0.10) so I bit the bullet and re-added that repo |
| 08:37.19 | mgedmin | sgbirch: known issue with wifi power savings being incompatible with buggy access points |
| 08:37.20 | sgbirch | ok |
| 08:37.31 | sgbirch | mgedmin: is there a workaround? |
| 08:37.41 | mgedmin | workaround is to go to the connection list, find the right connection, find the advanced options dialog and lower the power savings level |
| 08:37.48 | mgedmin | to intermediate (usually sufficient) or to none |
| 08:38.19 | nnod_ | sgbirch: alternatively you can do something to keep the connection alive from the device, such as ssh to your machine and run top |
| 08:38.36 | sgbirch | nnod_: ok |
| 08:40.13 | nnod_ | sgbirch: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3945 |
| 08:41.02 | sgbirch | cool |
| 08:41.03 | mgedmin | suddenly I'm unsure if it's a bug in the access point, or if the bug was about something else (connections dropping even when initiated from the n8x0) |
| 08:41.38 | sgbirch | doesnt ssh have a heartbeat capability? |
| 08:42.39 | sgbirch | mgedmin: cool .. I have changed the power setting .. thanks |
| 08:42.42 | mgedmin | ah, okay: "PSM, when working correctly on both ends, may introduce latency but shouldn't cause frames to be lost." |
| 08:42.43 | mgedmin | so, AP bug |
| 08:42.51 | nnod_ | i was having this problem last night, i had to do the ssh/top thing to keep it active |
| 08:43.03 | mgedmin | I don't know if ssh heartbeats make thing better or worse |
| 08:43.27 | mgedmin | (worse by making ssh notice that the connection disappeared, when instead the short connection loss might pass unnoticed) |
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| 08:44.02 | sgbirch | mgedmin: ahh |
| 08:44.13 | nnod_ | i've found that i can even disconnect/reconnect to the network and get my ssh session back |
| 08:44.26 | sgbirch | mgedmin: I wonder if putting the ssh on an openvpn link would help |
| 08:44.44 | mgedmin | I was having biig problems with ssh timing out yesterday over ad-hoc wifi |
| 08:44.54 | mgedmin | until I noticed three different wlans (including my adhoc one) were trying to share channel 9 |
| 08:45.01 | sgbirch | mgedmin: lol |
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| 08:46.02 | sgbirch | mgedmin: another issue .. cant for the life of me use my HP hw6915 as a modem for the n810 |
| 08:46.13 | sgbirch | have never been able to get online via my phone |
| 08:46.26 | sgbirch | I suspect the problem is with the HP and not the n810 though |
| 08:46.34 | mgedmin | HP makes phones? |
| 08:46.41 | sgbirch | yeah |
| 08:46.46 | mgedmin | I've used a nokia phone for BT DUN |
| 08:47.00 | mgedmin | I heard many newer phones no longer support BT DUN, they want BT PAN instead |
| 08:47.03 | sgbirch | http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hw6915&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-GB:unofficial&client=firefox-a |
| 08:47.07 | mgedmin | I believe there are instructions for setting up PAN |
| 08:47.15 | sgbirch | Actually, the HP phone was well ahead of its time |
| 08:47.44 | sgbirch | I have had it for years .. has email, TomTom, browser ... al kinds of goodies that is now becoming mainstream |
| 08:48.03 | sgbirch | but HP and Microsoft dropped the ball imho |
| 08:48.05 | sgbirch | It is a wm5 phone |
| 08:48.26 | mgedmin | eek! |
| 08:48.40 | sgbirch | mgedmin: quite good in its day, amazingly |
| 08:49.00 | mgedmin | anything with 'w' in the name of the os cannot be good by definition |
| 08:49.03 | mgedmin | <-- a bigot |
| 08:49.09 | sgbirch | mgedmin: when my n900 arrives the hp will retire ... and that is the last Microsoft code I use |
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| 08:49.31 | sgbirch | mgedmin: bigot .. nah. realist. |
| 08:49.56 | inz | mgedmin, be sure not to read maemo upside-down |
| 08:49.58 | pupnik_ | is chatting using a real n810 |
| 08:50.14 | inz | is chatting using imaginary one |
| 08:51.34 | sgbirch | mgedmin: I am being thick .. cant understand the upside-down concept :-( |
| 08:52.12 | sgbirch | I cant believe how much better this ssh is with the power save turned off |
| 08:52.13 | sgbirch | wow |
| 08:52.16 | mgedmin | echo maemo|upside-down |
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| 08:58.55 | pupnik_ | sgbirch: what exactly did you turn off |
| 09:00.10 | *** join/#maemo rd (n=rd@91.32.52.205) |
| 09:00.41 | *** join/#maemo ptlo (n=senko@213.147.102.45) |
| 09:01.18 | *** join/#maemo sarower (n=sarower@ns2.bjitgroup.com) |
| 09:01.25 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@62.28.143.10) |
| 09:01.32 | *** join/#maemo shdb (n=shdb@217-162-129-64.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:01.39 | RST38h | Heh, the device not out yet, and t.m.o is already getting "why doesn't maemo get tractionin the market" |
| 09:01.43 | sarower | Goos morning all |
| 09:02.40 | sarower | I have two deb package and I want that package 2 will be automatically be installed after package 1 is finished |
| 09:02.47 | sarower | How it could be done |
| 09:02.55 | sarower | any body? |
| 09:03.07 | Mek | I thought the /. comment "why are there 10 times as many iphones sold as n900's" was also rather amusing :) |
| 09:03.20 | `0660 | :P |
| 09:03.21 | RST38h | can''t argue, right |
| 09:03.32 | sarower | How package 1 should be made? |
| 09:03.41 | sgbirch | pubnik_: the power saving |
| 09:03.55 | sgbirch | pupnik_: made ssh become reliable |
| 09:04.00 | sarower | if i give package 2 in postinst of package 1 |
| 09:04.23 | sarower | It gives error, something dpkg data base related |
| 09:04.29 | mgedmin | I saw this Swedish article saying something about "Good prognosis for Android", and inside it was something resembling market share predictions of smartphone OSes |
| 09:04.29 | mgedmin | it gave Maemo 4.5% |
| 09:05.02 | mgedmin | sarower: Depends: |
| 09:05.02 | glass | did they have links to their older prediction articles? |
| 09:05.15 | hrw | morning |
| 09:05.18 | sgbirch | mgedmin: android has been embraced by a ton of corps |
| 09:05.22 | RST38h | 4.5% is way too sweet to be true |
| 09:05.26 | sarower | mgedmin: In the controll file? |
| 09:05.28 | RST38h | moo hrw |
| 09:05.33 | mgedmin | sarower: yes |
| 09:05.37 | sgbirch | mgedmin: even Barnes and Noble for their ebook reader |
| 09:05.41 | sarower | But my package is not in any repository |
| 09:05.49 | mgedmin | then put it in one, sarower |
| 09:05.50 | sgbirch | anyone going to lugradio live tomorrow? |
| 09:05.51 | *** join/#maemo cleary (n=quassel@121.44.224.205) |
| 09:05.52 | sarower | it will be in the local pc |
| 09:05.59 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (n=murrayc@91.19.29.103) |
| 09:06.09 | mgedmin | for testing you can simply dpkg -i the files in the right order |
| 09:06.13 | sgbirch | who runs maemo.org? |
| 09:06.13 | mgedmin | i.e. package 2 first, then package 1 |
| 09:06.32 | RST38h | Meanwhile in Japan: http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/23/in-japan-nerds-control-girls-with-joysticks/ |
| 09:06.36 | RST38h | sgbirch: The Cabal |
| 09:06.40 | sgbirch | mgedmin: man .. that power fix for ssh has transformed the device |
| 09:06.44 | sgbirch | mgedmin: sweet |
| 09:06.54 | RST38h | sgbirch: But for all practical purposes, talk to X-Fade |
| 09:06.54 | sarower | mgedmin: in which file the command should be? |
| 09:07.02 | mgedmin | sgbirch: do you have avahi-daemon on it, for extra sweetness? |
| 09:07.10 | mgedmin | loves being able to ssh mg-n810.local |
| 09:07.17 | sgbirch | avahi-daemon .. looking |
| 09:08.14 | mgedmin | shame about the bug where it doesn't start on reboot |
| 09:08.23 | mgedmin | and I have to manually sudo /etc/init.d/avahi-daemon start |
| 09:08.26 | sgbirch | mgedmin: is apt compatable .. can I start using it instead of the gui thing? |
| 09:08.42 | sgbirch | mgedmin: no .. dont have it installed |
| 09:08.43 | mgedmin | sgbirch: yes, you can install stuff with apt-get |
| 09:08.54 | *** join/#maemo croppa (n=stuart@135.27.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 09:09.06 | mgedmin | just be careful and don't do things like apt-get dist-upgrade if they say they'll remove half of the essential system software |
| 09:09.11 | mgedmin | or even just a package or two |
| 09:09.12 | sgbirch | ahhhhh .. installing avahi-daemon |
| 09:09.36 | mgedmin | sgbirch: you'll want to set a hostname or edit /etc/avahi/avahi-daemon.conf |
| 09:09.40 | sgbirch | cool: |
| 09:09.40 | RST38h | mgedmin <-- meek |
| 09:09.43 | sgbirch | /etc/apt/sources.list.d # apt-get install avahi-daemon |
| 09:09.43 | sgbirch | E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11 Resource temporarily unavailable) |
| 09:09.43 | sgbirch | E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it? |
| 09:09.48 | mgedmin | because ssh Nokia-N810-bunch-of-random-numbers.local is not fun |
| 09:09.56 | sgbirch | just as I would hope (gui was still up) |
| 09:09.57 | mgedmin | sgbirch: the app manager keeps the dpkg lock |
| 09:10.00 | RST38h | Real hackers use a fixed static IP like 192.168.0.666 =) |
| 09:10.10 | sgbirch | mgedmin: yes ... sweet. Pertfect |
| 09:10.12 | mgedmin | RST38h: when roaming in other people's wlans? |
| 09:10.22 | RST38h | mgedmin: mm, guess not |
| 09:10.48 | sgbirch | mgedmin: how is the n900 keyboard, I never liked the n810 - cant feel the keys well enough |
| 09:11.00 | mgedmin | n900 is much better, key-wise |
| 09:11.01 | sgbirch | mgedmin: flat keyboard was the problem |
| 09:11.02 | mgedmin | it has fewer keys |
| 09:11.08 | sgbirch | mgedmin: good |
| 09:11.11 | mgedmin | I'd gotten used to the n810 keyboard |
| 09:11.18 | mgedmin | it worked surprisingly well for shell/vim |
| 09:11.24 | mgedmin | except for missing |, [ and ] |
| 09:11.26 | sgbirch | mgedmin: hey .. that reminds me. I HATE the way it always capitalizes |
| 09:11.38 | mgedmin | so turn off autocapitalization, duh |
| 09:11.39 | RST38h | it is configurable |
| 09:11.40 | sgbirch | mgedmin: can I turn that off and reclaim my sanity |
| 09:11.48 | sgbirch | I cant find the config for it on the n810 |
| 09:11.49 | mgedmin | the n900 feels much better, but has fewer keys |
| 09:11.54 | *** join/#maemo cleary (n=quassel@ppp121-44-224-205.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net) |
| 09:11.56 | RST38h | Settings->Keyboard |
| 09:12.01 | mgedmin | no <, no >, no ~ |
| 09:12.17 | mgedmin | the symbol popup is better than on n810 since it doesn't resize the terminal window any more |
| 09:12.23 | mgedmin | and all those keys are accessible from it |
| 09:12.24 | sgbirch | mgedmin: cool |
| 09:12.39 | *** join/#maemo bilboed-pi (n=bilboed@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 09:12.45 | mgedmin | still, ~ is very cumbersome: fn + ctrl, ~ on touchscreen, space |
| 09:12.49 | mgedmin | since ~ is a dead_tilde |
| 09:12.50 | sgbirch | mgedmin: I only use the keyboard for messaging .. ssh to the device for other stuff |
| 09:13.35 | sgbirch | mgedmin: hmm .. I am in the control panel, but dont see keyboard |
| 09:13.57 | mgedmin | does anybody know whether the wifi device needs to be up or down for iwconfig wlan0 mode/channel/essid, and in what order to do those? |
| 09:14.10 | mgedmin | experiments show that iwconfig wlan0 mode ad-hoc only works after ifconfig wlan0 down |
| 09:14.12 | sgbirch | mgedmin: there is "Text Input", it has an option "Handwriting case correctio" |
| 09:14.18 | mgedmin | and that iwconfig wlan0 essid only works after ifconfig wlan0 up |
| 09:14.19 | sgbirch | mgedmin: but that is unchecked anyway |
| 09:15.22 | sgbirch | mgedmin: nah .. I dont see where to turn off the annoying uppercase "feature" |
| 09:15.28 | inz | Hmh, my n800 touch screen is way off; so way off that the calibration applet refuses to accept corrective measures... |
| 09:15.43 | pupnik_ | wow |
| 09:15.47 | mgedmin | inz: at some point I discovered that calibration takes effect only after you reboot |
| 09:15.53 | mgedmin | that might've been fixed since |
| 09:16.08 | mgedmin | sgbirch: I don't remember -- explore |
| 09:16.18 | sgbirch | mgedmin: ok |
| 09:16.26 | mgedmin | it might be in the vkb's menu |
| 09:16.27 | sgbirch | mgedmin: did you say avahi needs to be started by hand? |
| 09:16.32 | mgedmin | after reboot, yes |
| 09:16.39 | mgedmin | after installation it comes up by itself |
| 09:16.51 | mgedmin | something wrong with the init.d script or the rc2.d symlink |
| 09:17.27 | pupnik_ | wish i could boot to single user / maintenance mode |
| 09:17.51 | *** join/#maemo rick_ (n=rick@96.238.186.191) |
| 09:18.07 | sgbirch | mgedmin: this is so cool, the device is now snappy and fast |
| 09:18.13 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (n=timeless@192.100.124.156) |
| 09:18.25 | sgbirch | mgedmin: all this time I just thought it was a slow cpu, and it was the wifi link |
| 09:18.28 | w00t | ho hum |
| 09:18.33 | sgbirch | mgedmin: THANKS for that great tip |
| 09:18.54 | Stskeeps | sgbirch: keep in mind power saving disabled will eat your battery quicker :P |
| 09:18.54 | hrw | ok, did someone got 2.6.32-rc working on n8x0? |
| 09:19.07 | sgbirch | sure .. |
| 09:19.08 | Stskeeps | hrw: not sure, but i'm all ears if you did |
| 09:19.12 | sarower | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:19.18 | sarower | How it could be done |
| 09:19.23 | sarower | any body? |
| 09:19.28 | sarower | if i give package 2 in postinst of package 1 |
| 09:19.32 | sarower | It gives error, something dpkg data base related |
| 09:19.33 | sgbirch | Stskeeps: when I am doing the ssh thing the n810 is connected to power |
| 09:20.03 | hrw | sarower: ever heard about dependencies and repositories? |
| 09:20.10 | hrw | Stskeeps: ha! |
| 09:20.17 | sarower | yes... |
| 09:20.24 | ptlo | sarower, you don't want that; instead, if package 2 needs package 1 to be running properly, you should make pkg 1 depend on pkg 2; you do that by adding the pkg 2 name in pkg 1's control file Depends: field |
| 09:20.27 | mgedmin | hrw: he has, I just told him 15 minutes ago |
| 09:20.32 | sarower | but i will not keep it in the repository at all |
| 09:21.00 | hrw | sarower: so you need to 'dpkg -i pkg1 pkg2' otherwise youre doomed |
| 09:21.03 | mgedmin | admittedly, I wasn't being very clear in my responses ... |
| 09:23.34 | sgbirch | mgedmin: I dont see any source repos in your sources.list. What is the normal way to grab source of a package? |
| 09:24.11 | *** join/#maemo mairas (n=mairas@a150-238.24online.fi) |
| 09:24.11 | sgbirch | mgedmin: I mean, apt-get source xxxxx |
| 09:24.30 | mgedmin | sgbirch: I don't grab source packages on my n810, I do that on my laptop, inside scratchbox |
| 09:24.45 | sgbirch | is scratchbox a vm? |
| 09:24.46 | mgedmin | extras and extras-devel have the obvious corresponding deb-src lines |
| 09:24.53 | sgbirch | mgedmin: ok |
| 09:25.15 | mgedmin | scratchbox is a development environment, sort of a cross between a chroot'ed debian system and a VM |
| 09:25.27 | mgedmin | google for "Maemo SDK" |
| 09:25.47 | mgedmin | scratchbox takes care for cross-compiling ARM code |
| 09:26.01 | mgedmin | by hooking up gcc with qemu or some such magic |
| 09:27.09 | hrw | sbox is workaround solution for cross-compiling |
| 09:27.57 | sgbirch | mgedmin: rats .. scratchbox doesnt seem to be in ubuntu |
| 09:28.24 | mgedmin | nope |
| 09:28.29 | sgbirch | deb http://scratchbox.org/debian/ apophis main |
| 09:28.34 | mgedmin | yep |
| 09:28.40 | sgbirch | k |
| 09:29.16 | mgedmin | inz had a very good blog post about setting up scratchbox and dev environments for several maemo versions |
| 09:29.37 | sgbirch | Err http://scratchbox.org apophis/main Packages |
| 09:29.37 | sgbirch | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:29.40 | *** join/#maemo trbs (n=trbs@87.215.139.10) |
| 09:29.46 | sgbirch | hmm |
| 09:30.02 | RST38h | sgbirch: Go with MaemoSDK+ =) |
| 09:30.20 | sgbirch | catch 22 |
| 09:30.31 | sgbirch | Scratchbox installation found... no |
| 09:30.31 | sgbirch | E: Scratchbox not found in installation path '/scratchbox'. |
| 09:30.31 | sgbirch | E: Please complete scratchbox installation first. |
| 09:30.43 | sgbirch | maemo-sdk-install_5.0.sh wants scratchbox installed |
| 09:30.52 | Corsac | RST38h: I didn't really manage to install maemo5 sdk for sb2 :/ |
| 09:30.57 | Corsac | sgbirch: you're using amd64? |
| 09:31.10 | sgbirch | Corsac: yes |
| 09:31.15 | RST38h | Corsac: I think they still only have 5.0b1 available for SB2 |
| 09:31.19 | mgedmin | sgbirch: you have options |
| 09:31.26 | RST38h | Corsac: But it is ok for development as long as you run stuff on the real device |
| 09:31.30 | sgbirch | mgedmin: I can run it in a vm |
| 09:31.34 | Corsac | RST38h: I don't have a real device :) |
| 09:31.36 | mgedmin | sgbirch: do you want an SDK for the n900 (maemo 5) or an SDK for the n810 (maemo 4)? |
| 09:31.46 | Corsac | sgbirch: me too, my solution was to install a lenny i386 box in kvm |
| 09:31.47 | RST38h | Corsac: Oh, that would be a problem =) |
| 09:31.53 | Corsac | RST38h: *cry* |
| 09:31.56 | Corsac | :) |
| 09:31.57 | mgedmin | maemo 5 uses scratchbox from here: deb http://scratchbox.org/debian maemo5-sdk main |
| 09:32.00 | RST38h | Let me check if 5.0final bootstrap is there |
| 09:32.01 | sgbirch | mgedmin: hmmm .. good question, I have a n810 .. but n900 on order |
| 09:32.18 | sgbirch | mgedmin: does scratchbox let you run the maemo software? |
| 09:32.24 | mgedmin | sgbirch: partially |
| 09:32.32 | Corsac | mgedmin: only i386 there :) |
| 09:32.34 | sgbirch | mgedmin: I mean .. can you run a virtual n810/n900 ? |
| 09:32.41 | mgedmin | there's a hacky solution where you rebuild the software for x86 and use Xephyr |
| 09:32.51 | mgedmin | it's not a virtual nxx0 by any means |
| 09:33.06 | mgedmin | no hardware emulation, lots of proprietary nokia software bits missing |
| 09:33.08 | Corsac | anyway the sdk installer wants scratchbox installed in /scratchbox which i don't really like |
| 09:33.10 | mgedmin | I never bother |
| 09:33.25 | Corsac | so I decided to do all the scary stuff in kvm |
| 09:33.31 | Corsac | and don't break my host system |
| 09:33.40 | sgbirch | Corsac: yeah ... Ill do the same |
| 09:33.48 | sgbirch | Corsac: I use virtualbox though |
| 09:34.10 | Corsac | yeah, I prefer kvm which is more integrated |
| 09:34.12 | Corsac | and less qt :) |
| 09:34.18 | Corsac | I use a run.sh with: |
| 09:34.19 | Corsac | kvm -daemonize -nographic -k en-us maemo.qcow2 -redir tcp:2222::22 |
| 09:34.34 | Corsac | and then ssh to localhost:2222 and do stuff from there |
| 09:34.39 | sgbirch | Corsac: does kvm let you have multiple windows on the desktop? |
| 09:34.50 | Corsac | multiple windows of the same vm? |
| 09:35.04 | sgbirch | Corsac: no, one window for each vm |
| 09:35.09 | Corsac | oh, sure |
| 09:35.14 | Corsac | run as much kvm instances you want |
| 09:35.22 | sgbirch | Corsac: I kinda was under the impression that kvm was a server vm |
| 09:35.30 | Corsac | not really |
| 09:35.38 | Corsac | well, you can use it (like me, with the -daemonize) |
| 09:35.44 | Corsac | but the frontend is qemu-based |
| 09:36.00 | sgbirch | Corsac: does it have usb support? |
| 09:36.07 | Corsac | I think so |
| 09:36.33 | Corsac | (in my case I only use it as a build box for the moment) |
| 09:36.39 | sgbirch | Corsac: ok .. I installed kvm .. how do I get started with it (hints plz) |
| 09:36.42 | Corsac | well, tbh, only used it to apt-get source the kernel :) |
| 09:37.03 | Corsac | sgbirch: hmh, don't follow me on kvm if you prefer (and are used to) virtualbox |
| 09:37.11 | sgbirch | Corsac: |
| 09:37.14 | mgedmin | I believe there's a vmware image out there that contains ubuntu with scratchbox preinstalled |
| 09:37.16 | sgbirch | Corsac: oh ok |
| 09:37.31 | Corsac | basically, you can get the vmware image and run it in kvm, I think |
| 09:37.33 | mgedmin | I think vmware images can be converted to kvm/virtualbox ones, no? |
| 09:37.42 | sgbirch | Corsac: I switched from vm to scratchbox about a year ago |
| 09:37.43 | Corsac | virtualbox will eat them directly |
| 09:37.50 | sgbirch | Corsac: from vmware, I mean |
| 09:37.51 | Corsac | kvm I think so but I'm not sure |
| 09:37.59 | Corsac | to virtualbox you mean? |
| 09:38.12 | sgbirch | Corsac: yes vmware -> virtualbox |
| 09:38.27 | sgbirch | Corsac: I love virtualbox, it works well for me |
| 09:38.31 | Corsac | the vmware image is ubuntu based, which I don't really like, so I reinstalled a lenny in kvm, but if you're fine with ubuntu and virtualbox, it might be the easiest option |
| 09:38.48 | sgbirch | Corsac: link? |
| 09:38.51 | Corsac | wait a sec |
| 09:38.58 | sgbirch | Corsac: thx |
| 09:39.06 | Corsac | http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ |
| 09:39.09 | sgbirch | anyone going to lug radio live? |
| 09:39.34 | *** join/#maemo miksa007 (n=miksa@YYYMKDCCCXLIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 09:39.40 | sgbirch | Corsac: nice .. that is the way to do it. They should move to vm, no fiddling around |
| 09:40.02 | *** join/#maemo zap_ (n=zap@213.59.86.89) |
| 09:40.11 | hrw | RST38h: no maemo5 rootfs yet? :( |
| 09:40.31 | hrw | RST38h: maemo5 on beagleboard would be handy for some testing |
| 09:40.53 | RST38h | hrw: Unfortunately none. Also, the SB2 website seems to be dead since August |
| 09:40.54 | sgbirch | RST38h: what do you mean? I assume you can get root on maemo5 |
| 09:41.00 | RST38h | hrw: No idea what is going on |
| 09:41.14 | mgedmin | sgbirch: no downloadable root filesystem image is currently available |
| 09:41.26 | mgedmin | for maemo 5 |
| 09:41.31 | RST38h | sgbirch: hrw is not asking about getting root privileges, he is asking about the so called bootstrap, the Maemo5 / image |
| 09:41.32 | sgbirch | mgedmin: but when you log into the n900, you can get root... right? |
| 09:41.34 | mgedmin | also, no kernel, which irritates me |
| 09:41.40 | mgedmin | sgbirch: sure, same as with n810 |
| 09:41.45 | RST38h | yes you can |
| 09:41.45 | Stskeeps | hrw: we're working on maemo5 for beagleboard but we have some issues with a custom DSS patch atm in the nokia kernel |
| 09:41.48 | sgbirch | mgedmin: phew |
| 09:41.54 | hrw | Stskeeps: ok |
| 09:42.00 | sgbirch | mgedmin: I bought an android .. and returned it because of that |
| 09:42.02 | *** join/#maemo |dl9pf| (n=dl9pf@p5B2178BB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:42.04 | Stskeeps | that keeps SGX from working |
| 09:42.33 | Corsac | mgedmin: kernel is available |
| 09:42.35 | sgbirch | mgedmin: I was terribly disappointed when google played games with the SDK |
| 09:42.38 | Corsac | mgedmin: sources at least |
| 09:42.46 | hrw | Stskeeps: that would make me easier to write post 'what I do not like in maemo5' before getting device ;D |
| 09:43.03 | Stskeeps | hrw: SDK has some degree of the maemo experience (finally) |
| 09:43.36 | mgedmin | Corsac: where? |
| 09:43.39 | RST38h | is being forced to install Office2007 |
| 09:43.49 | mgedmin | Corsac: SDK has kernel sources of an older version |
| 09:44.08 | sgbirch | mgedmin: another question .. why do they make us put in our serial number before we can get the binary. It isnt a big deal, but an irritation |
| 09:44.17 | mgedmin | why you asking me? |
| 09:44.43 | Corsac | mgedmin: oh |
| 09:44.43 | sgbirch | mgedmin: just thought you might know. |
| 09:44.46 | Corsac | mgedmin: sorry |
| 09:44.58 | mgedmin | np :) |
| 09:45.01 | Corsac | mgedmin: as I don't have the device, I don't really know which kernel it has atm :) |
| 09:45.43 | *** join/#maemo panaggio (n=panaggio@200-158-190-234.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 09:46.59 | Stskeeps | sgbirch: better than a C&D and not having access |
| 09:47.06 | Corsac | kernel-source | 2.6.28-20093908+0m5 | http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk/free Packages |
| 09:47.15 | sgbirch | Stskeeps: agreed |
| 09:47.34 | mgedmin | in case you're interested, it has kernel 2.6.28-20094102+0m5 |
| 09:48.05 | Stskeeps | sgbirch: and all things considered the EULA isn't that bad.. |
| 09:48.12 | mgedmin | iptables_nat.ko, when built from the 20093908 sources, fail to load because of mismatching symbol version |
| 09:48.25 | mgedmin | if you strip symbol versions and forcefully load iptables_nat.ko, the device reboots |
| 09:48.40 | mgedmin | so, no turning the n900 into a 3g internet sharing device yet |
| 09:48.43 | sgbirch | Stskeeps: I guess |
| 09:48.50 | mgedmin | I'm forced to use ssh -D 1080 |
| 09:50.20 | *** join/#maemo florian_kc (n=fuchs@port-217-146-132-69.static.qsc.de) |
| 09:50.20 | sarower | durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr bal |
| 09:50.37 | sarower | valo lage na |
| 09:51.23 | Stskeeps | mgedmin: sure there's no tethering support? :P |
| 09:51.26 | mgedmin | the official support is "you can plug in the USB cable and let the Nokia PC suite use your n900 as a 3G modem" |
| 09:51.35 | mgedmin | cables suck, I want my connection sharing over wifi |
| 09:51.39 | Stskeeps | ah. |
| 09:52.03 | mgedmin | I sort of have it, by using ssh as a socks proxy |
| 09:53.16 | sgbirch | mgedmin: can you use bluetooth to connect to the n900, then gateway to the internet using 3g? |
| 09:53.33 | mgedmin | beyond my fu, currently |
| 09:53.49 | mgedmin | I can barely figure out how to set up ad-hoc wifi from the command line |
| 09:54.00 | sgbirch | mgedmin: oh |
| 09:55.15 | *** join/#maemo netvandal (n=michele@85.20.115.2) |
| 09:55.25 | SpeedEvil | ssh is awesome! |
| 09:56.46 | netvandal | hi guys, some one are using hildon_find_toolbar? |
| 10:06.25 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (n=timeless@192.100.124.156) |
| 10:06.49 | *** join/#maemo CrazyRobot (n=CR@bzq-82-81-2-17.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 10:08.12 | sgbirch | mgedmin: which maps does the n900 gps use? Does it have turn by turn directions? |
| 10:08.43 | hrw | sgbirch: Ovi Maps, and it should have |
| 10:09.01 | sgbirch | hrw: can it use osm? |
| 10:09.10 | hrw | no |
| 10:09.27 | hrw | and I am 105% fine with that |
| 10:09.42 | hrw | I cannot imagine driving with osm maps |
| 10:09.59 | sgbirch | hrw: ovi maps are included in price? |
| 10:11.31 | kirma | can I specify stuff related to packaging in esbox? I haven't been very much into IDEs, really... |
| 10:11.42 | hrw | iirc yes, but you need to pay for routing functionality |
| 10:11.55 | hrw | at least thats how Ovi Maps works on S60 |
| 10:12.12 | hrw | but for S60 there are also cracked versions of Ovi Maps... |
| 10:13.22 | SpeedEvil | Why can't it use OSM? |
| 10:13.28 | SpeedEvil | The GPS isn't accessible to userspace? |
| 10:13.34 | sulx | hrw: unsigned? |
| 10:13.41 | SpeedEvil | Or do you simply mean that ovi maps can't use OS |
| 10:13.43 | SpeedEvil | M |
| 10:14.01 | SpeedEvil | And OSM is of varying coverage, in some places acceptable. |
| 10:14.13 | hrw | sulx: you have a problem with unsigned apps on s60? |
| 10:14.13 | sulx | ovi maps are free yes |
| 10:14.34 | sulx | hrw: nope =) |
| 10:14.37 | SpeedEvil | I thought only one years ovi maps subscription came with the device |
| 10:15.08 | hrw | SpeedEvil: 1. gps is accessible 2. ovi maps do not use osm and rather this will not change 3. you can write/use own maps soft which will use osm |
| 10:15.10 | sgbirch | maemo mapper works on the n900 though? With OSM |
| 10:16.08 | sulx | there is also Navit...tho it's still quite unusable... |
| 10:17.23 | SpeedEvil | In much of the world there are significant data quality problems meaning I would hesitate to use turn by turn mapping |
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| 10:21.14 | wazd | You'll be cackling like mad |
| 10:21.30 | Stskeeps | mm? |
| 10:21.43 | wazd | My display is gone |
| 10:21.48 | Stskeeps | display? |
| 10:22.13 | wazd | PC display) |
| 10:22.17 | Stskeeps | it died? :P |
| 10:22.28 | wazd | Yep |
| 10:22.47 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 10:23.12 | SpeedEvil | I'd offer you a spare, but shupping would be rather prohibitive. |
| 10:23.20 | wazd | I'm looking for a gun to shoot myself |
| 10:23.29 | Stskeeps | wazd: you sure aren't lucky right now.. |
| 10:23.58 | SpeedEvil | Are there any payment providers that allow payments into russia? |
| 10:24.05 | wazd | Stskeeps: I never was actually) |
| 10:27.41 | Stskeeps | wazd: time for a holiday, the dead devices seem to say :P |
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| 10:32.19 | ccooke | hmm. I wonder if there's any way to pause javascript and flash execution on web pages that have been minimised for some time |
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| 10:45.07 | RST38h | EHLOs whoever he has not ehloed yet |
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| 10:46.04 | wazd | RST38h: heya |
| 10:46.06 | ccooke | 250 Hello RST38h |
| 10:50.36 | Corsac | is that /win 28 |
| 10:50.42 | Corsac | hmh. |
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| 10:55.36 | kynde | anyone know if/where the usb serial number of an N810 might be accessible from within the device? |
| 10:57.05 | till- | lsusb -v? |
| 10:57.40 | Corsac | maybe with a loopback cable ;p |
| 10:59.02 | kynde | it's not in lsusb -v. and actually nevermind, since it appears to be same in all devices... :( |
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| 11:04.11 | igagis | hi |
| 11:05.52 | RST38h | wazd: How are things? |
| 11:06.24 | wazd | RST38h: totally bad, thanks) |
| 11:06.45 | igagis | where can I submit a bug against extras repo (I'm unable to do apt-get update on fremantle)??? |
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| 11:15.43 | zerojay | igagis: Did you fill up your root partition??/ |
| 11:16.06 | wazd | RST38h: my PC display is gone :) |
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| 11:17.04 | lcuk | wazd, more problems or something you are happy about? |
| 11:18.36 | wazd | lcuk: do I look like a man who's happy bout something being broken while having no mmoney |
| 11:19.12 | lcuk | :( u are not having a good run atm wazd |
| 11:19.36 | lcuk | have you solved the paypal problem now or is that still impractical? |
| 11:19.37 | wazd | lcuk: I never had |
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| 11:20.07 | wazd | lcuk: now we can receive donations, yes |
| 11:20.31 | lcuk | whats the link again, i tried to donate when it was first mentioned |
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| 11:22.30 | RST38h | wazd: In other circumstances I would say it were a lucky reason to buy a new one =) |
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| 11:28.07 | wazd | RST38h: the funny thing is, that I knew that my display was dying and had some cash to buy HP H-IPS one, but I have to finish current work till sunday and get my money to buy it |
| 11:28.42 | SpeedEvil | remembers once mudding with a printer, when his screen broke. |
| 11:28.54 | RST38h | wazd: Steal your sister's laptop quick =) |
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| 11:29.20 | wazd | RST38h: aaaha, you don't know!)))) |
| 11:30.33 | wazd | RST38h: she fried it yesterday )) |
| 11:30.52 | wazd | RST38h: and THAT is the Irony |
| 11:32.04 | RST38h | Oh. |
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| 11:34.36 | igagis1 | zerojay: what do you mean "fill up root partition"? |
| 11:35.51 | igagis1 | zerojay: when I do the 'apt-get update' it fetches some info from repos but, as I understand, when it comes to frmeantle extras repo it returns some GPG error |
| 11:36.16 | mgedmin | GPG error or GPG warning? |
| 11:36.27 | mgedmin | warnings are normal |
| 11:36.30 | Stskeeps | it's a warning not a error |
| 11:37.29 | igagis1 | no, It is an ERROR |
| 11:37.36 | igagis1 | not warning |
| 11:37.39 | Stskeeps | pastebin it |
| 11:37.51 | igagis1 | just a minute |
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| 11:40.03 | igagis1 | http://pastebin.org/47492 |
| 11:40.29 | igagis1 | it looks like warning (W:) but it says 'GPG error' |
| 11:42.08 | mgedmin | it looks like a warning because it is a warning |
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| 11:42.30 | mgedmin | it warns about the fact that gpg spewed an error |
| 11:42.37 | mgedmin | it's not fatal to apt-get |
| 11:42.38 | igagis1 | mgedmin: ok, let it be warning but I cannot install any packages from extras because of that |
| 11:42.41 | lcuk | filed a bug o_O |
| 11:42.43 | lcuk | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5741 |
| 11:42.47 | mgedmin | I don't believe you, igagis1 |
| 11:42.55 | mgedmin | specifically, the "because of that" bit |
| 11:43.10 | mgedmin | I believe that you cannot install any packages, and I believe that you see that apt warning about the gpg error |
| 11:43.34 | mgedmin | but there's no causal link between the two |
| 11:44.15 | mgedmin | ah, lcuk, you discovered that very nice feature |
| 11:44.35 | igagis1 | mgedmin: see discussion here https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=4609&group_id=45&atid=241 for more info how I spotted the problem. Is certainly related to that warning that I cannot install needed packages |
| 11:44.36 | mgedmin | I don't even remember what was on desktop 2 by default, but I don't miss it |
| 11:44.44 | lcuk | lol |
| 11:44.57 | lcuk | i remember because i only have enough widgets for one desktop |
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| 11:45.34 | mgedmin | igagis1: you haven't demonstrated _why_ you cannot install needed packages yet |
| 11:45.41 | mgedmin | please pastebin the full command and the output |
| 11:45.52 | mgedmin | hint: the command is not 'apt-get update', since apt-get update doesn't install any packages |
| 11:46.21 | mgedmin | anyway, have you tried apt-get install (or apt-get build-dep) yet? |
| 11:46.33 | igagis1 | mgedmin: to install packages I need to do apt-get update first to fetch info about available packages and their versions etc. |
| 11:46.50 | mgedmin | yes? you did the apt-get update, now go install packages |
| 11:46.53 | mgedmin | forget the gpg warnings |
| 11:47.00 | igagis1 | mgedmin: of course I tried apt-get install |
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| 11:47.23 | mgedmin | btw I *am* irritated that nobody who maintains the repos has set up apt signing properly |
| 11:47.27 | mgedmin | I wonder if there's a bug open about that |
| 11:47.46 | igagis1 | mgedmin: I'm trying to install maemo-cplusplus-env package which is in extras-testing |
| 11:48.19 | igagis1 | mgedmin: I can't install it because it says 'no such package' without apt-get update |
| 11:48.59 | mgedmin | that's because maemo-cplusplus-env is *not* in extras-testing |
| 11:49.02 | mgedmin | it's in extras-devel |
| 11:49.15 | igagis1 | extras-devel I tried too |
| 11:49.36 | *** join/#maemo tKMFDM (n=tKMFDM@ip5658167f.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 11:49.38 | lcuk | Jaffa, you noticed my post about transcoding, i wonder what the best way to quantify that properly would be |
| 11:50.00 | mgedmin | well, then, please pastebin the output from the following set of commands: cat /etc/apt/sources.list; fakeroot apt-get update; fakeroot apt-get install maemo-cplusplus-env |
| 11:50.33 | mgedmin | because it Works For Me (TM) |
| 11:51.14 | mgedmin | and I'm sorry, I don't know why I'm being abrupt and obnoxious today |
| 11:51.14 | mgedmin | could be hunger |
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| 11:52.25 | igagis1 | mgedmin: I'm not on my linux machine right now, I will pastebin today evening and ping you. By the way, in sources.list I haveextras-devel listed and it was working OK about month ago, then it got broken with this GPG error |
| 11:52.58 | mgedmin | extras-devel has been breaking intermittently with a different error (something about hash missing in Release) |
| 11:53.05 | Jaffa | lcuk: I'm going to add an 'hq' preset to table-encode which encodes at 800x480 for the N900 |
| 11:53.12 | mgedmin | the GPG error is displayed *always* |
| 11:53.38 | lcuk | Jaffa, neato! |
| 11:54.25 | igagis1 | mgedmin: ok, thank you |
| 11:54.52 | mgedmin | what's the right package to report bugs about the statusbar volume bar? |
| 11:55.08 | mgedmin | ah, found it |
| 11:55.17 | mgedmin | it's applications, not platform |
| 11:55.47 | bigbrovar | . |
| 11:58.06 | nnod | is anyone familiar with talking to gypsy over d-bus? |
| 12:01.37 | *** join/#maemo shdb (n=shdb@217-162-129-64.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:03.56 | mgedmin | I hate how iwconfig only shows frequency but doesn't show channel |
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| 12:11.34 | lopz | hey ;) |
| 12:12.52 | lcuk | arghhhh 27 minutes to index 1 video + 4 albums |
| 12:19.12 | hrw | GuySoft: which 1TB HDD would you suggest for movies/backups storage (will reside in usb2/esata enclosure) |
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| 12:46.49 | SpeedEvil | hrw: It's almost irrelevant |
| 12:47.12 | SpeedEvil | hrw: no hard drive is reliable enough to be sole storage. Also enclosure is important. |
| 12:47.21 | SpeedEvil | Cheap ones with bad PSUs can kill HDs |
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| 12:49.10 | ccooke | SpeedEvil: that depends on the class of data you have, really (whether it's reliable enough for single storage) |
| 12:49.49 | SpeedEvil | Sure. |
| 12:50.05 | SpeedEvil | I wish google would release real data |
| 12:51.14 | SpeedEvil | 0(on hard drive statistics per model) |
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| 12:52.36 | tigert | they have some no doubt .. |
| 12:53.04 | tigert | but that probably depends on the environment a lot as well |
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| 13:10.34 | jeremiah | Google won't tell you - it is a competitive advantage to know which disks / enclosures are the best |
| 13:10.40 | *** join/#maemo jofjdi (n=jsherman@67.72.73.34) |
| 13:12.27 | mgedmin | does google even use enclosures? |
| 13:13.08 | mgedmin | they use shipping containers full of custom-designed racks full of computer guts, with no boxes, for better ventilation |
| 13:13.56 | lcuk | pigeon holes |
| 13:14.07 | *** join/#maemo fiferboy (n=quassel@216.185.81.34) |
| 13:15.12 | fiferboy | Morning all |
| 13:15.17 | mgedmin | hai |
| 13:16.35 | pupnik_ | qw tab.. :( |
| 13:16.47 | pupnik_ | Fri Oct 23 15:16:46 CEST 2009 |
| 13:17.14 | Flandry | Mornin' |
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| 13:18.18 | Flandry | lcux, i had deleted the dependencies portion of the control file while messing around with it last night |
| 13:18.29 | Flandry | lcuk sorry |
| 13:18.34 | *** join/#maemo hardaker (n=hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 13:18.43 | Flandry | builds fine this morning :D |
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| 13:19.08 | Flandry | so yeah i had done something dumb |
| 13:19.22 | Flandry | anyway, moving on... |
| 13:19.59 | mgedmin | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5746 <-- is /home/apt-archives a good location for symlinking /var/cache/apt/archives ? |
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| 13:20.15 | GeroNimO_ | hey, need help compiling 0.17 for n8x0 |
| 13:20.25 | GeroNimO_ | any pointers? |
| 13:20.28 | mgedmin | what's 0.17? enlightenment? |
| 13:20.34 | GeroNimO_ | mer 0.17 |
| 13:20.37 | mgedmin | oh |
| 13:20.37 | jeremiah | mgedmin: I suppose, but why? |
| 13:20.47 | GeroNimO_ | mer rules |
| 13:20.53 | jeremiah | GeroNimO_: Have you checked out #mer? |
| 13:21.01 | mgedmin | jeremiah: why what? why symlink? did you read the bug? you can't apt-get install openarena otherwise |
| 13:21.03 | GeroNimO_ | sry thanx |
| 13:21.08 | Flandry | hey jeremiah, thanks for the help |
| 13:21.18 | jeremiah | GeroNimO_: No problem, you can ask here too! |
| 13:21.33 | jeremiah | GeroNimO_: A lot of the same people are in both. :) |
| 13:21.42 | jeremiah | Flandry: Sure thing! :) |
| 13:21.52 | jeremiah | mgedmin: Nope, I didn't read it. Bad me. |
| 13:21.59 | jeremiah | reads bugzilla |
| 13:22.03 | GeroNimO_ | thank you jeremiah |
| 13:22.29 | fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: ping? |
| 13:22.56 | jeremiah | Ah, this is why you are symlinking? "apt aborts saying that there's not enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives" |
| 13:23.00 | Flandry | I'm rather confused by the targets part of the sdk. I understand that there are x86 and arm processors to compile for, but not really what i do to check the armel target for thigs |
| 13:23.04 | lcuk | Flandry, grrrr |
| 13:23.27 | jeremiah | lcuk: Down boy down! |
| 13:23.32 | lcuk | lol |
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| 13:23.42 | Flandry | haha |
| 13:23.49 | lcuk | waits for 1gb of media to come off device |
| 13:23.51 | mgedmin | what do you mean by "check", Flandry? |
| 13:24.02 | Flandry | so now that i have i386 package built, what's the next step before i upload |
| 13:24.25 | lcuk | give jeremiah a sacrifice |
| 13:24.39 | Flandry | oh? |
| 13:24.45 | Flandry | virgin bits? |
| 13:25.01 | mgedmin | sb-conf select FREMANTLE_ARMEL # or whatever the default target name is |
| 13:25.06 | mgedmin | and recompile for armel |
| 13:25.16 | mgedmin | uses inz's naming scheme: fremantle-armel |
| 13:25.41 | lcuk | Flandry, not sure but i think jeremiah is a virgin :D |
| 13:26.04 | Flandry | maybe some kind of recursive sacrifice then |
| 13:26.21 | lcuk | that would make sense, as marius suggests |
| 13:26.25 | lcuk | check it works on armel |
| 13:26.37 | lcuk | cos the code might have specific ties to x86 |
| 13:27.09 | Jaffa | mgedmin: Comments added onn #5746 |
| 13:27.50 | mgedmin | infobot, please acquire the ability to convert bug numbers into clickable URLs! |
| 13:28.23 | lcuk | +1 |
| 13:28.52 | fiferboy | lcuk: Tried personal-photo-frame? |
| 13:29.06 | lcuk | if i insert a 16gb card into microsd, can i do the boot from SD trick on n900? |
| 13:29.15 | lcuk | no fiferboy im about half hour from setting off to london |
| 13:29.25 | fiferboy | lcuk: Ah. |
| 13:29.26 | lcuk | ive got wires and bags and clothes and toothbrushes aroun |
| 13:29.46 | fiferboy | Sounds hectic. How far are you from London? |
| 13:29.55 | lcuk | just a couple of hours |
| 13:29.59 | fiferboy | (I assume you don't mean London, Ontario, Canada) |
| 13:30.03 | lcuk | but i have to take everything still |
| 13:30.15 | fiferboy | I'm a couple of hours from London too! (but a different one) |
| 13:30.26 | fiferboy | We also have a Paris nearby |
| 13:30.37 | lcuk | thats hot! |
| 13:30.43 | SpeedEvil | have you come across any open datasources for k-space datasets? Ideally with real images too. |
| 13:30.44 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 13:31.06 | Flandry | wow i had to kill a whole lot of rogue processes before it would consider scratchbox dead |
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| 13:31.22 | timeless_mbp | Jaffa / lcuk : ping |
| 13:31.25 | lcuk | :O i just realised with what i said about boot from sd |
| 13:31.36 | *** join/#maemo shdb (n=shdb@217-162-129-64.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 13:31.38 | lcuk | wont it by default mix up the opt folder between the 2 systems |
| 13:31.41 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=Faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 13:31.48 | lcuk | hey timeless |
| 13:31.54 | timeless_mbp | do you guys have >7 bookmarks and 2 mins? |
| 13:32.18 | nomis | has, but no n900. Does that help? |
| 13:32.27 | lcuk | gfi quickly, not many more than 7 |
| 13:32.36 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (n=alehorst@187.59.21.96) |
| 13:32.38 | timeless_mbp | steps: |
| 13:32.44 | timeless_mbp | 1. go to the desktop |
| 13:32.47 | timeless_mbp | 2. tap the top left corner |
| 13:33.07 | timeless_mbp | 3. if you reach the task switcher, close all browser windows, and then tap the top left corner to reach the task launcher |
| 13:33.18 | timeless_mbp | 4. tap the globe (Web, Browser, whatever it's called in your translation) |
| 13:33.33 | timeless_mbp | 5. watch the right edge of your screen, you should see a gray bar fade away |
| 13:33.47 | wjt | indeed. |
| 13:33.54 | timeless_mbp | 6. tap a bookmark (preferably for a page that loads quickly) |
| 13:34.18 | timeless_mbp | 7. if you haven't turned off the option for "open pages in full screen", tap the bottom right corner of the window to show the toolbar |
| 13:34.40 | timeless_mbp | 8. tap the left most (bookmarks) button on the toolbar |
| 13:34.50 | timeless_mbp | 9. watch the right edge of your screen, you should see a gray bar fade away |
| 13:35.12 | Flandry | why would a library be available in the i386 target but not armel? |
| 13:35.15 | timeless_mbp | 10. tap the top right corner of your screen (this should take you back to your web browser) |
| 13:35.21 | wjt | hmm. the gray bar fades away ridiculous fast in step 5 |
| 13:35.56 | timeless_mbp | 11. tap the left most (bookmarks) button on the toolbar |
| 13:36.02 | timeless_mbp | 12. watch the right edge of your screen, you should see a gray bar fade away |
| 13:36.17 | timeless_mbp | 13. tap the top right corner of your screen (this should take you back to your web browser) |
| 13:36.36 | SpeedEvil | combo breaker! |
| 13:36.36 | timeless_mbp | 14. tap the top right corner of your screen (this should close the web browser) |
| 13:36.36 | nnod | does anyone know where the implicitly saved notes file is on the n900? |
| 13:36.53 | timeless_mbp | 15. close the bookmarks (Web) view |
| 13:37.04 | timeless_mbp | nnod: foo (autosaved).ext |
| 13:37.06 | timeless_mbp | or so... |
| 13:37.36 | *** join/#maemo AchipA (n=AchipA@94.75.214.153) |
| 13:37.37 | timeless_mbp | 16. if you reach the task switcher, tap the top left corner to reach the task launcher |
| 13:37.50 | timeless_mbp | 17. tap the globe (Web, Browser, whatever it's called in your translation) |
| 13:37.58 | timeless_mbp | 18. watch the right edge of your screen, you should see a gray bar fade away |
| 13:38.03 | wjt | yeah, looks like the bookmark view doesn't realise it's being loaded afresh |
| 13:38.24 | timeless_mbp | 19. tap the top right corner of your screen (this should close Bookmarks "Web") |
| 13:38.34 | timeless_mbp | 20. if you reach the task switcher, tap the top left corner to reach the task launcher |
| 13:38.40 | timeless_mbp | 21. tap the globe (Web, Browser, whatever it's called in your translation) |
| 13:38.55 | *** join/#maemo sjgadsby (n=sjgadsby@166.66.47.52) |
| 13:38.56 | timeless_mbp | 22. CAN YOU watch the right edge of your screen, you should see a gray bar fade away?? |
| 13:39.00 | timeless_mbp | -- END OF STEPS -- |
| 13:39.15 | w00t | that was a lot of steps. |
| 13:39.19 | wjt | your point is that the scrollbar doesn't reliably show in the bookmarks view? |
| 13:39.27 | timeless_mbp | wjt: roughly |
| 13:39.42 | lcuk | it shows when clicking bookmarks button from within browser |
| 13:39.47 | mgedmin | ah, that's what the gray bar is! |
| 13:39.57 | lcuk | but when opening new browser instance it isnt there mostly |
| 13:39.58 | timeless_mbp | mgedmin: it's a random line that cuts into the content area |
| 13:40.10 | *** join/#maemo ustunozgur (n=ustun@pcozgur.ee.bilkent.edu.tr) |
| 13:40.14 | timeless_mbp | it really serves no purposes, other than to confuse users |
| 13:40.20 | timeless_mbp | at this task, it is incredibly effective |
| 13:40.31 | timeless_mbp | anywa |
| 13:40.37 | timeless_mbp | can someone please confirm my steps to reproduce? |
| 13:40.47 | timeless_mbp | namely, please explain at what point my steps stop making sense |
| 13:40.49 | *** join/#maemo k-s (n=gustavo@201.82.168.98) |
| 13:40.50 | wjt | If it was reliable, it's a useful indicator that there's more content you can scroll to |
| 13:41.04 | timeless_mbp | wjt: you're asking for reliability... |
| 13:41.10 | timeless_mbp | from our (Nokia) UI team |
| 13:41.11 | wjt | can't find a pattern to whether the scrollbar shows up or not in the bookmarks view |
| 13:41.19 | lcuk | reproduce, i barely saw a bar anytimes i opened it via the globe |
| 13:41.33 | mgedmin | I like the fading-out-scrollbar |
| 13:41.34 | lcuk | i saw a bar for a second or so when i clicked bookmarks from within the browser tho |
| 13:41.34 | timeless_mbp | lcuk: but at 22 you don't see it at all, correct? |
| 13:41.35 | mgedmin | I like it a lot |
| 13:41.58 | lcuk | i didnt see it for most of them.. |
| 13:42.01 | lcuk | it was too quick |
| 13:42.12 | lcuk | mgedmin, it shouldnt fade according to me |
| 13:42.29 | lcuk | it should be transparent and show space all the time |
| 13:42.36 | mgedmin | arguable |
| 13:42.46 | mgedmin | if the background was empty behind it all the time, then yes |
| 13:42.53 | lcuk | no point in having to click to work out where you are |
| 13:42.56 | mgedmin | but if you're looking at something where it overlaps say some image on a web page, then no |
| 13:42.59 | lcuk | no need for empty |
| 13:43.04 | mgedmin | speaking of images |
| 13:43.06 | lcuk | transparency |
| 13:43.24 | mgedmin | microb bug! clicking on an image resizes it |
| 13:43.40 | timeless_mbp | mgedmin: um |
| 13:43.46 | *** join/#maemo k-s (n=gustavo@201.82.168.98) |
| 13:43.46 | lcuk | i have to vanish |
| 13:43.49 | lcuk | cyas later \o |
| 13:43.50 | timeless_mbp | it's an opaque scrollbar everywhere outside the browser |
| 13:44.00 | timeless_mbp | it crops random text :) |
| 13:44.12 | timeless_mbp | (even when it's "hidden") |
| 13:44.14 | Flandry | augh |
| 13:44.54 | timeless_mbp | mgedmin: so um, can you please verify my steps? |
| 13:44.54 | mgedmin | gaah I want kinetic scrolling on my laptop now |
| 13:45.00 | Flandry | do i need to add repositories in FREMANTLE_ARMEL |
| 13:45.05 | timeless_mbp | i need someone running the build you guys are using |
| 13:45.48 | timeless_mbp | pokes mgedmin / lcuk / someone |
| 13:45.49 | mgedmin | timeless_mbp: 5 minutes please |
| 13:45.51 | timeless_mbp | please confirm? |
| 13:45.53 | timeless_mbp | is in a rush |
| 13:45.57 | GuySoft | hrw, why did you ask me about TB drives ?? |
| 13:46.07 | GuySoft | i am not really the expert on that |
| 13:46.21 | Flandry | how does that work. Do the scratchbox targets have independent repositories? |
| 13:47.25 | wjt | timeless_mbp: the scrollbar stopped showing midway through, and now never shows |
| 13:47.33 | timeless_mbp | wjt: hrm |
| 13:47.39 | timeless_mbp | really? |
| 13:47.43 | mgedmin | wishes timeless_mbp had used a pastebin |
| 13:47.49 | timeless_mbp | mgedmin: hold |
| 13:48.00 | timeless_mbp | http://pastebin.mozilla.org/678508 |
| 13:48.07 | wjt | timeless_mbp: yes, really |
| 13:48.12 | *** join/#maemo ustunozgur (n=ustun@pcozgur.ee.bilkent.edu.tr) |
| 13:48.17 | timeless_mbp | wjt: odd |
| 13:48.24 | timeless_mbp | for me, i really see it each time until 22 |
| 13:48.37 | timeless_mbp | wonders if someone "improved" something between 39 and 41 |
| 13:49.23 | mgedmin | timeless_mbp: in step 18 the grey bar did not show up |
| 13:49.27 | mgedmin | in step 22 it did not show up either |
| 13:49.58 | mgedmin | note that in step 16 I did not reach the task switcher, I reached my desktop |
| 13:50.02 | mgedmin | since web was the only app running |
| 13:50.15 | timeless_mbp | nods |
| 13:50.33 | timeless_mbp | i could have preconditions "no running applications" |
| 13:50.36 | timeless_mbp | i don't like doing that :) |
| 13:50.59 | *** part/#maemo gaspa (n=gaspa@88.61.118.134) |
| 13:51.23 | timeless_mbp | oh wait |
| 13:51.26 | timeless_mbp | i'm an idiot |
| 13:51.38 | timeless_mbp | yeah, ok, the fact that it doesn't appear in 18 is acceptable buggy results |
| 13:52.06 | mgedmin | heh, now I can't retrace my steps from 1 since the bar never shows up |
| 13:53.09 | timeless_mbp | pkill browser |
| 13:53.24 | *** join/#maemo promulo (n=romulo@150.165.63.86) |
| 13:53.50 | *** join/#maemo user007 (n=root@190.8.151.14) |
| 13:54.08 | hrw | GuySoft: sorry, my irc client expanded "guys:" to your nick |
| 13:54.10 | AchipA | heh, I'd be happy if the darn images just matched up with the urls :) |
| 13:54.26 | ShadowJK | ooh, fremantle has pkill? :) |
| 13:54.36 | GuySoft | hrw, oh ok :) |
| 13:54.39 | ShadowJK | After using solaris I got used to typing pkill.. |
| 13:54.41 | *** part/#maemo mihu (n=michael@p5489B535.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:55.01 | *** join/#maemo krau|away (n=krau@200.184.118.130) |
| 13:55.44 | sjgadsby | timeless_mbp: So, should I ever see warnings that XPCOMUtils is running slowly? http://www.flickr.com/photos/sjgadsby/4036104280/ I'm guessing stopping it would be bad. |
| 13:55.46 | timeless_mbp | it does, oddly |
| 13:55.53 | timeless_mbp | sjgadsby: i see it if i do this: |
| 13:55.57 | timeless_mbp | javascript:confirm(1); |
| 13:56.03 | timeless_mbp | walk away from device for 10 mins |
| 13:56.32 | sjgadsby | Heh. |
| 13:56.36 | timeless_mbp | i haven't spent time figuring out why it's running slowly, what it's doing, why it's running at all, etc |
| 13:56.46 | timeless_mbp | it's fun, i get iirc 3 slow script dialogs |
| 13:57.00 | timeless_mbp | one from that, one from something which i think must be some database |
| 13:57.02 | timeless_mbp | chuckles |
| 13:57.08 | timeless_mbp | one of my devices just committed suicide |
| 13:57.12 | timeless_mbp | it claims it ran out of battery |
| 13:57.17 | timeless_mbp | sad thing... it's plugged into a charge |
| 13:57.18 | timeless_mbp | r |
| 13:57.29 | timeless_mbp | and now it turned on to start charging :) |
| 13:58.34 | *** join/#maemo millenomi (n=millenom@93-35-148-155.ip55.fastwebnet.it) |
| 13:59.00 | *** join/#maemo IcanCU (n=IcanCU@3E336208.dslaccess.aol.com) |
| 13:59.11 | timeless_mbp | wjt / mgedmin: 5750 |
| 13:59.15 | timeless_mbp | thanks for playing |
| 13:59.27 | *** part/#maemo IcanCU (n=IcanCU@3E336208.dslaccess.aol.com) |
| 14:01.03 | Flandry | For end-user application packages, is the package uploaded supposed to be compiled or not? |
| 14:01.32 | timeless_mbp | in general, we request that you upload sources to the autobuilder |
| 14:01.38 | mgedmin | files https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5751 |
| 14:01.38 | timeless_mbp | and let it build the binaries for you |
| 14:01.42 | Flandry | ok |
| 14:01.58 | timeless_mbp | chuckles |
| 14:02.01 | timeless_mbp | mgedmin: yeah um,... |
| 14:02.04 | timeless_mbp | sadly, it's a feature |
| 14:02.17 | timeless_mbp | but we should consider changing how it works |
| 14:02.43 | timeless_mbp | ponders |
| 14:02.44 | mgedmin | it works okay *on desktops* |
| 14:02.45 | Flandry | so changing the target in SDK is for the purpose of testing that the build works only |
| 14:02.53 | timeless_mbp | i'm not sure if we have any way of detecting "double tap" |
| 14:02.59 | timeless_mbp | we might be able to do that |
| 14:03.15 | mgedmin | can you just disable image resizing and keep using the generic whole-page-zoom mechanism? |
| 14:03.26 | *** join/#maemo jofjdi (n=jsherman@67.72.73.34) |
| 14:03.31 | mgedmin | the browser already handles double taps for resizing to make paragraphs fit nicely |
| 14:03.42 | timeless_mbp | ponders |
| 14:03.46 | ShadowJK | timeless_mbp, my N810 know also knows that trick (re suicide) :-) |
| 14:03.51 | *** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@nemein.suvilahti.nemein.net) |
| 14:03.54 | mgedmin | downside: zoom out seems to be somewhat limited |
| 14:03.58 | timeless_mbp | data:text/html,<img src="http://www.geekstir.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/evophones2.jpg"> |
| 14:04.00 | ShadowJK | does N900 have a RD mode type thing like on N810? |
| 14:04.01 | timeless_mbp | try that |
| 14:04.05 | timeless_mbp | can it zoom usefully? |
| 14:04.12 | timeless_mbp | iirc it failed because it wouldn't let you zoom out enough |
| 14:04.15 | timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: yep |
| 14:04.17 | mgedmin | oooh, neat hack! |
| 14:04.17 | timeless_mbp | exactly like |
| 14:04.31 | mgedmin | can I please have clipboard sharing over wifi |
| 14:04.43 | timeless_mbp | "there's an app for that" |
| 14:04.44 | ShadowJK | heh |
| 14:04.45 | mgedmin | I'm not going to enjoy typing that data: url |
| 14:04.52 | timeless_mbp | mgedmin: don't bother |
| 14:05.01 | Jaffa | ShadowJK: Yes |
| 14:05.03 | timeless_mbp | just: data:text/html,<img src=" |
| 14:05.05 | timeless_mbp | or use a pastebin |
| 14:05.17 | timeless_mbp | the url is just a wrapper around the url you gave me |
| 14:05.18 | mgedmin | but yeah, timeless, if I single-tap to get the image displayed at 100%, and then spiral-scroll to zoom out, it doesn't let me zoom out enough |
| 14:05.21 | timeless_mbp | so i presume you have it |
| 14:05.23 | Jaffa | ShadowJK: And there's `rootsh' in Extras for if you just want a root prompt |
| 14:05.31 | mgedmin | and I was once prevented from zooming out enough when I was looking at a regular web page |
| 14:05.36 | timeless_mbp | nods |
| 14:05.39 | mgedmin | maybe I should file a bug about that |
| 14:05.42 | timeless_mbp | yay for UI designers |
| 14:06.02 | mgedmin | pastebin, what an original idea! |
| 14:06.11 | mgedmin | feels stoopid for not thinking of that |
| 14:06.23 | *** join/#maemo michele_ (n=michele@85.20.115.2) |
| 14:06.59 | ShadowJK | hal-addon-bme has this ability to hang on my N810. When it does that it gets stuck showing whatever battery state was when it hung. Eventually bme shuts down on low battery |
| 14:07.34 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (n=murrayc@p5B131D67.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:07.54 | Flandry | i'm updating the SDK developer guide wiki. Does this sound right: |
| 14:07.56 | Flandry | The system displays some output, including some warnings about XB-Maemo-Icon-26, but that is normal. The parent directory now contains a my-application_1.0.0-0_i386.deb file - the Debian package. This file can be used to test the application on the SDK. When the source package is uploaded to the autobuilder, an Arm architecture-compatible .deb file will be built to distribute to Maemo devices and installed using the Application Manage |
| 14:07.56 | Flandry | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:08.05 | mgedmin | plays with about:config and disables automatic image zooming |
| 14:08.11 | timeless_mbp | heh |
| 14:08.22 | timeless_mbp | mgedmin: do us a favor |
| 14:08.28 | timeless_mbp | add a note explaining how to disable the feature |
| 14:08.36 | timeless_mbp | and provide a hint for how to avoid it |
| 14:08.46 | timeless_mbp | (you can make a bookmarklet which converts the url to a wrapped one) |
| 14:08.53 | timeless_mbp | and then resolve the bug as WFM or something |
| 14:08.58 | timeless_mbp | because you don't really want us to try to fix it |
| 14:09.03 | timeless_mbp | we'll cause much more harm than good |
| 14:09.47 | *** join/#maemo dolphin (n=dolphin@unaffiliated/dolphin) |
| 14:09.55 | timeless_mbp | "The parent directory now contains " is awkward |
| 14:10.10 | timeless_mbp | s/now contain/will have / or will now contain or ... |
| 14:10.22 | timeless_mbp | "test the application on the SDK" |
| 14:10.41 | mgedmin | huh |
| 14:10.44 | timeless_mbp | s/ on / [in|with|using] / |
| 14:11.15 | timeless_mbp | "will be built to distribute to Maemo devices and installed using the Application Manage" |
| 14:11.15 | suihkulokki | while at the browser, should firefox extensions (such as flashblock) work as is, or do they need to be modified somehow? |
| 14:11.16 | timeless_mbp | is awkward... |
| 14:11.25 | timeless_mbp | fixing it requires me to do things i don't have time to do now |
| 14:11.26 | timeless_mbp | i have to run |
| 14:11.30 | timeless_mbp | i'll be back sunday or so |
| 14:11.43 | timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: typically they need slight modifications |
| 14:11.50 | timeless_mbp | iirc you need to add the microb app id |
| 14:11.59 | timeless_mbp | i thought someone ported flashblock |
| 14:12.06 | suihkulokki | to diablo |
| 14:12.07 | mgedmin | nope, even with browser.enable_automatic_image_resizing set to false, a single tap shrinks the image |
| 14:12.14 | mgedmin | that setting affects only the initial state |
| 14:12.20 | timeless_mbp | oh |
| 14:12.27 | timeless_mbp | babu was supposed to post instructions / slides |
| 14:12.35 | timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: you can poke him, right? |
| 14:12.40 | timeless_mbp | you're the second person to ask in about a day |
| 14:12.53 | suihkulokki | :P |
| 14:13.15 | *** join/#maemo kr1shnak__ (n=kr1shnak@host86-147-196-255.range86-147.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:13.22 | *** join/#maemo danilocesar (n=danilo@200.184.118.130) |
| 14:13.26 | timeless_mbp | sorry. back sunday ish |
| 14:13.45 | suihkulokki | I can poke, the problem is I know babu by face, but it will take a moment to convert that to a email address |
| 14:14.35 | *** join/#maemo adeus (n=lahtela@94.237.68.42) |
| 14:14.44 | suihkulokki | got it :) |
| 14:14.56 | *** join/#maemo radic_ (n=radic@ip-109-85-146-76.web.vodafone.de) |
| 14:15.10 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=rsalveti@200.184.118.130) |
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| 14:26.46 | Flandry | I'm having trouble finding the same dependencies for the armel target that were available for the i386 target. Do i have to add the repositories in both targets? |
| 14:27.00 | mgedmin | Flandry: yes! |
| 14:27.07 | mgedmin | they are completely separate chroots |
| 14:27.12 | mgedmin | they share only your home directory |
| 14:27.46 | pupnik_ | karma to mgedmin |
| 14:28.07 | mgedmin | pupnik_: it's spelled ~mgedmin++ |
| 14:28.08 | Flandry | ah, well that explains a lot XD |
| 14:28.12 | mgedmin | ~karma |
| 14:28.12 | infobot | mgedmin has karma of 1 |
| 14:28.17 | mgedmin | oooh, I'm rich! |
| 14:29.49 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3 (n=user@94.162.62.113) |
| 14:30.57 | *** join/#maemo warp10 (n=andrea@beeseek.org) |
| 14:33.01 | Flandry | there a good reason extras isn't enabled by default on the SDK? :P |
| 14:33.52 | mgedmin | actually, no |
| 14:34.07 | mgedmin | file a bug please |
| 14:34.21 | mgedmin | ask for extras, extras-devel and extras-testing in the default apt sources.list |
| 14:34.28 | mgedmin | maybe commented out |
| 14:34.38 | mgedmin | hm |
| 14:34.49 | *** join/#maemo sphenxes (n=sphenxes@85-127-220-70.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 14:34.53 | mgedmin | 5.0 final sdk is out, too late to fix it for that |
| 14:35.46 | *** join/#maemo andrunko (n=andrunko@pasanda.collabora.co.uk) |
| 14:36.03 | Flandry | oh exciting, my first bug report |
| 14:37.15 | *** part/#maemo danielwilms (n=dwilms@147.243.155.42) |
| 14:37.19 | Flandry | oh crap, yet another login X/ |
| 14:42.17 | *** join/#maemo lmoura (n=lauromou@200.184.118.130) |
| 14:42.29 | *** join/#maemo mlpug (n=mlpug@a88-115-164-40.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
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| 14:46.56 | AchipA | a n00b question... what am I supposed to look for to see what's the current 'display' status of my app in Fremantle - in front, shown in the task manager, or in the background ? |
| 14:47.22 | AchipA | I guess there is some DBUSing going on but gat quite find the right page for reference... |
| 14:47.29 | AchipA | s/gat/can't/ |
| 14:47.34 | Jaffa | AchipA: There's a 'top-most' property on your main window. Or you can look at focus events |
| 14:48.21 | mgedmin | is it possible to distinguish "invisible" from "thumbnail shown in task switcher"? |
| 14:48.27 | AchipA | Jaffa: thx |
| 14:48.39 | Jaffa | mgedmin: Probably ;-) |
| 14:48.56 | mgedmin | I wouldn't be surprised if the answer was "no" |
| 14:49.40 | AchipA | if there isn't, it's a bit of a shame - a lot of juice could be saved that way |
| 14:50.13 | AchipA | esp for folks who tend to keep the task manager view open (i.e. me :) ) |
| 14:50.25 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3 (n=user@94.162.62.113) |
| 14:50.30 | Ceron^ | yay for nokia failing :( |
| 14:50.38 | Ceron^ | january for the n900... |
| 14:50.50 | Ceron^ | jumped 3 months ;P |
| 14:50.56 | AchipA | Ceron^: source ? |
| 14:51.08 | Ceron^ | tmo |
| 14:51.35 | Stskeeps | tmo isnt a reliable source |
| 14:51.36 | AchipA | ah, I though something maybe just a little bit more substantial :) |
| 14:51.46 | n810debian | can mer be installed like debian chroot (easy debian)? |
| 14:51.54 | Ceron^ | well its reality.. :P |
| 14:52.03 | *** join/#maemo alecrim (n=alecrim@189.2.128.130) |
| 14:52.05 | Stskeeps | n810debian: easy mer exists |
| 14:52.07 | b0unc3 | hi guys... |
| 14:52.17 | *** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 14:52.23 | Flandry | it's alive. ALIVE! |
| 14:52.35 | qwerty12 | shoots it |
| 14:52.46 | Flandry | oh man |
| 14:52.51 | Stskeeps | lo qwerty12 |
| 14:52.52 | n810debian | Stskeeps: does it install like debian chroot (easy debian)? |
| 14:52.57 | qwerty12 | Hiya, Stskeeps :) |
| 14:53.03 | b0unc3 | I'm trying to setup latest sdk in order to comiple a desktop-widget , but when I try to install libhildondesktop, I get this error : http://pastebin.ca/1640263 |
| 14:53.07 | Stskeeps | n810debian: not my product, qoles |
| 14:53.33 | Stskeeps | b0unc3: remember nokia-binaries token |
| 14:53.58 | n810debian | whats qoles website? |
| 14:54.27 | AchipA | n810debian: qole.org |
| 14:54.53 | Stskeeps | Ceron^: more exact source? |
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| 14:55.41 | Ceron^ | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33303 :\? |
| 14:56.20 | AchipA | "local Tmobile store" ? |
| 14:57.07 | *** join/#maemo vivijim1 (n=vivijim@189.115.171.164) |
| 14:57.10 | Stskeeps | brilliant source |
| 14:57.20 | Ceron^ | http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE59M2RJ20091023 ok perhaps earlier but its better not wait at all |
| 14:57.28 | Ceron^ | to* |
| 14:57.34 | Stskeeps | also, ask tmobile and they will give you the date for subsidy |
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| 15:00.24 | Guest98394 | Hi, I am running the Maemo 5 Final SDK and I can't find the nokia apps lik emdia player and the web browser. Do I need to add a repo other than nokia-binaries? |
| 15:00.40 | mgedmin | Guest98394: you won't get them in the SDK |
| 15:00.43 | mgedmin | closed source sucks |
| 15:00.57 | qwerty12 | Guest98394: web browser is installed by apt-get install nokia-apps nokia-binaries |
| 15:01.09 | qwerty12 | You won't get the Media player, however |
| 15:01.33 | Guest98394 | great, thanks! |
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| 15:01.45 | Guest98394 | Can't wait to start porting all my linux apps to this box |
| 15:02.29 | Guest98394 | Its exciting to have a natively-compiled linux platform on competent hardware with OpenGL ES 2.0 support |
| 15:03.44 | ShadowJK | huh, wtf is up with my sirfstar |
| 15:03.55 | Ceron^ | any news on USB hostmode/OTG |
| 15:03.58 | ShadowJK | it's sitting in the window, and reporting that it's moving at 100km/h |
| 15:04.23 | mgedmin | the Earth revolves! |
| 15:04.23 | Stskeeps | ShadowJK: it has been watching Up! |
| 15:04.50 | mgedmin | maybe some aliens grabbed the satellite with a tractor beam |
| 15:04.55 | Ceron^ | ShadowJK: some aliens are moving our satelites :p |
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| 15:05.07 | Ceron^ | damn mgedmin was faster |
| 15:05.37 | ShadowJK | looks like it diverged by 2km or so |
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| 15:07.06 | *** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 15:07.18 | Guest98394 | qwerty12: fyi, the media player installed. Won't play anything, but the app is there. |
| 15:07.57 | qwerty12 | Ah, OK, I didn't realise. I have something a little more realistic than the environment included with the SDK ;0 |
| 15:08.00 | qwerty12 | *;) |
| 15:08.34 | mgedmin | mh, it's quite a change from olden times |
| 15:08.47 | mgedmin | back then scratchbox had xterm and the app manager, no other apps |
| 15:08.56 | mgedmin | I stopped bothering with xephyr about that time |
| 15:09.28 | Flandry | the media player in SDK is FUBAR though |
| 15:09.37 | *** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 15:09.44 | Flandry | it crashes and refuses to close |
| 15:11.23 | Guest98394 | yes! I have the same experience |
| 15:12.31 | Guest98394 | mgedmin: what do you use in place of zephyr? |
| 15:12.40 | mgedmin | a real n900 |
| 15:12.53 | Guest98394 | awesome, I want one |
| 15:12.57 | mgedmin | well, the appropriate real nxx0 actually |
| 15:13.15 | Guest98394 | Mostly becuase testing OpenGL performance is impossible otherwise |
| 15:13.24 | Ceron^ | Guest98394: what programs |
| 15:13.30 | Ceron^ | do you want to portt? |
| 15:13.47 | Guest98394 | I ported projectM to the iPhone and didn't release it becuase I hate developing on that platform. |
| 15:13.56 | Guest98394 | So its OpenGL Es-ready to go |
| 15:14.12 | Guest98394 | Should just need a recompile after I figure out how to open an OpenGL context on this thing. |
| 15:14.25 | Guest98394 | OR if Qt works, the projectM-qt guis should work out of hte box |
| 15:14.38 | Guest98394 | then its a matter of stealing audio data from somewhere |
| 15:15.41 | Guest98394 | Also I wrote an WW2 opengl ES tower defense game for iPhone I also didn't release and will port to Maemo. Thank god I wrote it in C++ and avaoided Obj-C like the plague |
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| 15:17.08 | Guest98394 | actually, if maemo supports pulseaudio, projectM-pulseaudio-qt should just work. Whic hwould be amazing. |
| 15:18.00 | mgedmin | maemo is built on top of pulseaudio |
| 15:18.07 | mgedmin | I don't think there are any alternative apis |
| 15:18.09 | Guest98394 | How conveniently awesome |
| 15:18.32 | mgedmin | <-- not the best source of information due to memory full of holes; better check docs |
| 15:19.06 | mgedmin | alsa might probably work (with the pulseaudio backend); /dev/dsp definitely doesn't exist |
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| 15:30.33 | Flandry | uh oh |
| 15:30.55 | Flandry | any ideas what might cause this error in ARMEL target: obj/debug/src/libs/resource/stringbank.c.o: could not read symbols: File in wrong format |
| 15:31.50 | Flandry | i did a ./build.sh distclean but it didn't help |
| 15:31.53 | RurouniJones | Does the N900 support WiMAX? |
| 15:31.59 | Flandry | no |
| 15:32.14 | RurouniJones | Bugger, read that it did |
| 15:32.36 | AchipA | RurouniJones: the only Maemo device that has WiMAX is the N810WE |
| 15:32.45 | *** join/#maemo alecrim (n=alecrim@189.2.128.130) |
| 15:32.49 | Flandry | it has 3G |
| 15:32.51 | RurouniJones | Fiddlesticks! FIDDLESTICKS! |
| 15:33.00 | RurouniJones | Ok, ta muchly. |
| 15:34.06 | penguinbait | oh fiddlesticks even |
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| 15:37.51 | BBNS | Guest98394: you could actually port OpenAL to maemo, with PulseAudio backend. |
| 15:38.10 | BBNS | Guest98394: in that way. it will give you 3d position sound. |
| 15:38.10 | *** join/#maemo n6pfk (n=n6pfk__@96.238.186.191) |
| 15:38.44 | Guest98394 | BBNS: Interesting, but might I am trying to "listen" to the music being played from the media player, not actually play any sound |
| 15:38.53 | Guest98394 | ignore that first "might" please |
| 15:39.00 | BBNS | However, i have problem with playing mp3 on OpenAL with ALUT. Perhaps some people in this channel to solve the problem. |
| 15:39.25 | BBNS | i see. i though you are writing games. |
| 15:39.34 | BBNS | and need a FMOD replacement. |
| 15:40.31 | BBNS | nevertheless, the most straightforward approach is to write a mini playback on gstreamer using playbin2. |
| 15:41.52 | BBNS | here is an example: http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/manual/html/chapter-components.html |
| 15:42.07 | BBNS | so that you have minimum latency. |
| 15:43.18 | BBNS | =] i had wrote a game on iPhone too. but EA threaten to sue us to violate their IP. |
| 15:43.46 | BBNS | that's why i stop writing apps on iPhone. not much freedom. you are caged. |
| 15:44.36 | mgedmin | Flandry: can you run file obj/debug/src/libs/resource/stringbank.c.o and see what it says? |
| 15:44.47 | SpeedEvil | Err - EA can sue you whatever platform you use |
| 15:45.05 | SpeedEvil | Or indeed if you just write stuff on paper. |
| 15:46.11 | Flandry | I cleaned it and rebuilt without using the external library and it worked |
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| 15:46.35 | Flandry | i suspect that it was using some residual from the library i built on the x86 target |
| 15:46.39 | Flandry | if that's possible |
| 15:46.54 | Flandry | how would i remove that |
| 15:47.18 | mgedmin | find -name '*.o' -exec rm {} + |
| 15:47.42 | mgedmin | or whatever's the usual way you use to clean up build artifacts |
| 15:47.46 | mgedmin | make distclean etc. |
| 15:48.06 | mgedmin | or cd ..; mv sourcetree sourcetree.dirty; dpkg -x sourcepackage.dsc; cd sourcetree |
| 15:48.25 | Flandry | well, i deleted the whole tree where i built the library |
| 15:48.33 | *** join/#maemo jnettlet (n=jnettlet@216.19.186.197) |
| 15:49.03 | Flandry | i was thinking maybe it installed somewhere that is visible in ARMEL |
| 15:49.03 | Flandry | but i don't know if that's possible |
| 15:49.03 | mgedmin | did you run 'make install'? |
| 15:49.03 | Flandry | yeah |
| 15:49.18 | mgedmin | of course it's possible, but I'm pretty sure different targets have different /usr trees and those aren't shared |
| 15:49.25 | mgedmin | or shouldn't be |
| 15:49.31 | Flandry | i'm flailing my arms in the shark infested water as you can tell |
| 15:49.36 | mgedmin | :) |
| 15:49.41 | mgedmin | scratchbox is a mess |
| 15:49.58 | mgedmin | you find one rut and things tend to work while you stay in it |
| 15:50.45 | Flandry | i'll go back and build it with the external dependency and see what file tells you |
| 15:50.48 | Flandry | maybe that will help |
| 15:51.21 | *** join/#maemo vivijim1 (n=vivijim@189.115.171.164) |
| 15:51.59 | mgedmin | I though you'd already solved your problem? |
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| 15:52.23 | Flandry | it will compile and link using the internal lib, but not the external |
| 15:52.38 | mgedmin | external one being? |
| 15:52.40 | Flandry | so while technically i did, i'd like to figure out what's wrong |
| 15:52.51 | Flandry | libmikmod |
| 15:52.56 | mgedmin | where did you get the external lib and how did you install it? |
| 15:52.56 | Flandry | internal or external |
| 15:53.02 | Flandry | i built it |
| 15:53.09 | Flandry | made a deb |
| 15:53.20 | Flandry | and then installed the deb |
| 15:53.28 | mgedmin | that should've worked fine |
| 15:53.50 | Flandry | but before that i build it from source using make etc. in x86 target |
| 15:54.03 | Flandry | so that's why i was wondering if i messed samething up |
| 15:54.22 | mgedmin | what could go wrong: (x86) make (armel) make install -> presto, you've got x86 object files in your /usr/local/lib |
| 15:54.38 | mgedmin | and /usr/local/lib tends to override libraries from .deb packages, which live in /usr/lib |
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| 15:54.56 | mgedmin | I once broke my ubuntu system by building an ancient cairo and installing it into /usr/local |
| 15:55.02 | Flandry | that's what i was thinking |
| 15:55.15 | Flandry | but don't know my way around the linux filesystem |
| 15:55.31 | Flandry | so how do i uninstall it in x86 |
| 15:55.54 | mgedmin | rm /usr/local/lib/* probably |
| 15:55.59 | mgedmin | I'd do a ls -lR /usr/local |
| 15:56.01 | mgedmin | see what's there |
| 15:56.06 | mgedmin | let me try that in my pristine scratchbox |
| 15:56.30 | mgedmin | yep, empty directories and one symlink |
| 15:56.47 | mgedmin | like with any linux system the best practice is to never ever run 'make install' |
| 15:56.53 | mgedmin | build debs, install debs |
| 15:57.02 | Flandry | so i'm learning |
| 15:57.34 | Flandry | hmm |
| 15:57.41 | mgedmin | I'm sometimes amazed people manage to build anything for maemo, given all the obstacles and complications :-) |
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| 15:58.39 | Flandry | it's magically working now |
| 15:58.41 | Flandry | lolol |
| 15:58.41 | BBNS | Flandry: sometimes the makefile would come with "make uninstall" if you are lucky. |
| 15:58.46 | ifreq | while building you can define where it install yoyr shito, so cant see it so hard. |
| 15:58.53 | *** join/#maemo guysoft42 (n=guysoft@93-173-5-217.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 15:58.58 | BBNS | Flandry: but not many developers would add that script in Makefile. |
| 15:59.01 | Flandry | yeah, it did but i deleted it all |
| 15:59.27 | Flandry | ha funny |
| 15:59.33 | Flandry | ok on to the next obstacle |
| 15:59.36 | mgedmin | I wonder if automake adds a 'make uninstall' by default |
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| 16:00.05 | *** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 16:00.17 | Flandry | what does the autobuilder run? |
| 16:00.30 | Flandry | make & make install? |
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| 16:00.40 | mgedmin | dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot |
| 16:00.48 | mgedmin | which runs debian/rules with various arguments |
| 16:00.56 | Flandry | oh |
| 16:01.04 | Flandry | i forgot about rules |
| 16:01.11 | mgedmin | which in turn usually runs things like ./configure --prefix=/usr, make, and make install DESTDIR=somesubdir |
| 16:01.50 | mgedmin | okbye |
| 16:02.00 | Flandry | so if i have an app that has an interactive ./build.sh config, what's the best practice |
| 16:02.06 | Flandry | you taking off? |
| 16:02.20 | GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, pong? |
| 16:02.46 | *** join/#maemo vivijim1 (n=vivijim@189.115.171.164) |
| 16:02.47 | fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: Just wondering if your N900 was a smoldering pile of ashes yet... |
| 16:03.02 | GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, haven't gotten around to any testing. |
| 16:03.05 | GeneralAntilles | Getting ready for FLS |
| 16:03.20 | fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: That's okay, but you missed out on a nice infinite loop :) |
| 16:03.21 | BBNS | Flandry: i think you can replace the line "./configure something something" with "./build.sh config". |
| 16:03.44 | BBNS | Flandry: rules is just a script that execute commands line by line. |
| 16:03.45 | Flandry | it's interactive though :/ |
| 16:03.55 | BBNS | Flandry: oh ... crap ... |
| 16:03.57 | Flandry | i'll have to change it |
| 16:04.11 | Jaffa | Flandry: pipe into its stdin? |
| 16:04.13 | Flandry | just trying to make the least changes to the source |
| 16:04.22 | Flandry | good idea |
| 16:04.59 | Flandry | my shellese is so rusty |
| 16:05.00 | lbt_ | Jaffa: xmltv timezone this weekend... |
| 16:05.17 | Jaffa | lbt_: yup |
| 16:05.43 | lbt_ | mrs lbt is already planning for the sunday morning panic |
| 16:05.48 | Jaffa | heh |
| 16:06.24 | *** join/#maemo Ryback_ (n=ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 16:07.35 | *** join/#maemo zerojayN900 (n=user@74.198.12.5) |
| 16:08.55 | zerojayN900 | looks like i'm about to see how good/bad ovi maps on n900 is. |
| 16:09.19 | zerojayN900 | heading to halifax tonight, never been before. |
| 16:09.33 | frals | best of luck |
| 16:10.26 | zerojayN900 | yeah, lol |
| 16:10.39 | zerojayN900 | should be... interesting. |
| 16:10.54 | SpeedEvil | 'Today in a GPS accident, while staring at a phone, zerojay drove into the sea' |
| 16:11.06 | zerojayN900 | lol |
| 16:11.07 | w00t | haha. |
| 16:11.19 | zerojayN900 | no car ;) |
| 16:11.32 | qwerty12 | Wow, you're walking? ;) |
| 16:11.42 | zerojayN900 | airplane -> public transportation. |
| 16:11.49 | *** join/#maemo Ryback_ (n=ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 16:11.51 | zerojayN900 | hah |
| 16:11.54 | qwerty12 | Heh |
| 16:12.01 | zerojayN900 | my company wishes |
| 16:12.08 | SpeedEvil | I want to make a hoverboard, which is > airplane. |
| 16:12.15 | SpeedEvil | But - alas legal and financial issues. |
| 16:12.28 | qwerty12 | remembers the lovely car journey to Halifax, UK... |
| 16:12.46 | fiferboy | qwerty12: You guys ripped off Halifax from us too? |
| 16:12.51 | fiferboy | First London, now this! |
| 16:12.53 | zerojayN900 | lol |
| 16:13.06 | fiferboy | At least we still have the original Paris... |
| 16:13.28 | qwerty12 | fiferboy: You wish :p |
| 16:13.37 | zerojayN900 | no one wants toronto, lol |
| 16:13.43 | fiferboy | :) |
| 16:13.53 | fiferboy | Toronto was York before, though... |
| 16:14.21 | zerojayN900 | and now, taranna. |
| 16:14.24 | qwerty12 | Another Canadian invention |
| 16:14.28 | qwerty12 | Oh, wait! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York |
| 16:16.48 | jeremiah | They stole it from New York. |
| 16:17.09 | jeremiah | They couldn't well call it New New York. |
| 16:17.10 | fiferboy | jeremiah: You mean New Amsterdam? |
| 16:17.17 | jeremiah | :) |
| 16:17.25 | zerojayN900 | testicles. |
| 16:17.26 | *** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 16:17.29 | zerojayN900 | that is all. |
| 16:17.41 | jeremiah | By that, do you mean Bollocks? |
| 16:17.54 | qwerty12 | zerojayN900: Listing what you will miss as you go into Halifax? ;P |
| 16:17.57 | zerojayN900 | new bollocks |
| 16:18.04 | zerojayN900 | lol |
| 16:18.08 | zerojayN900 | bastard. |
| 16:18.09 | fiferboy | All I know is, I've got a date in Constantinople |
| 16:18.50 | Proteous | no it's istanbul |
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| 16:19.40 | Proteous | now constanEvery gal in Constantinople |
| 16:19.47 | Proteous | lives in Istanbul, not constantinople |
| 16:19.56 | Proteous | so if you've a date in Constantinople |
| 16:20.02 | Proteous | She'll be waiting in Istanbul |
| 16:20.14 | Proteous | Istanbul was Constantinople |
| 16:20.22 | Proteous | Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople |
| 16:20.30 | Proteous | Been a long time goine, Constantinople |
| 16:20.38 | Proteous | Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night |
| 16:21.00 | fiferboy | For anyone wondering -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_(Not_Constantinople) |
| 16:21.06 | *** join/#maemo zap_ (n=zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net) |
| 16:21.08 | Proteous | heh |
| 16:21.26 | Proteous | Constantinople is hard to type repeatedly |
| 16:22.26 | SpeedEvil | Inconstantinople. |
| 16:22.29 | b0unc3 | Stskeeps : now works, thank you |
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| 16:31.24 | Flandry | They Might be Giants |
| 16:31.33 | Flandry | or maybe just loonies |
| 16:31.39 | *** join/#maemo shdb (n=shdb@217-162-129-64.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:32.09 | Flandry | what's the difference between the .tar.gz source in the root directory of a deb and the contents of the package directory? |
| 16:36.42 | jeremiah | Flandry: Does the tarball end with 'orig.tar.gz'? |
| 16:36.52 | *** join/#maemo brbrbr (n=brbrbrbr@unaffiliated/brbrbr) |
| 16:36.52 | Flandry | yeah |
| 16:37.20 | Flandry | it requires i specify one when i try to debianize an app |
| 16:37.22 | GeneralAntilles | wishes his old school maemo shirt weren't so oversized, _timeless_mbp_. :P |
| 16:37.58 | jeremiah | Flandry: Yeah, you have to have that since a deb requires pristine source code |
| 16:38.15 | jeremiah | The orig.tar.gz is the original source |
| 16:38.27 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Seen qgil's comment about Extras shipping disabled again? |
| 16:38.30 | jeremiah | The diff.tar.gz are your debianized changes. |
| 16:38.40 | Jaffa | wonders what the point of bothering with the QA process is. |
| 16:38.53 | Flandry | so the original soource goes there and the hacked up version actually intended to be built is what does in the directory with ./debian |
| 16:38.58 | jeremiah | Jaffa: Well, the whole process is a bit ambitious and will work well one day. |
| 16:39.04 | Flandry | goes* |
| 16:39.10 | jeremiah | Jaffa: I think we have to be a bit patient with the code. |
| 16:39.40 | Jaffa | jeremiah: Maybe. Oh, I'm sure the UI on maemo.org/packages/, the automated checks from minimae and maemian and the whole workflow will gegt easier. |
| 16:39.42 | jeremiah | Flandry: Yeah, you have your orig tarball. Then you put your debian dir inside of that. |
| 16:39.43 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I saw an earlier one, is there a new one? |
| 16:39.44 | Flandry | and the package builder makes a diff between the orig code and what's in the directory |
| 16:39.54 | Jaffa | jeremiah: However, I'm not sure Nokia will ever ship Extras enabled now |
| 16:40.09 | jeremiah | Jaffa: Ah! I see, I misunderstoon. :) |
| 16:40.10 | GeneralAntilles | feels cheated. |
| 16:40.15 | jeremiah | misunderstoon? |
| 16:40.23 | GeneralAntilles | "See how we can waste your time, losers?" |
| 16:40.24 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3279#c8 |
| 16:40.37 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (n=pcfe@a88-115-14-109.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:40.38 | jeremiah | If they don't ship with Extras, they are cutting off the communities legs. |
| 16:40.40 | Jaffa | jeremiah: Better than being misunderspoon |
| 16:40.51 | Jaffa | jeremiah: It'll ship configured, but disabled. |
| 16:40.58 | jeremiah | Hi! I'm Miss Under Spoon! |
| 16:41.20 | Flandry | Better than underhill too eh |
| 16:41.45 | under_spoon | admires his shiny nick. |
| 16:41.48 | Jaffa | jeremiah: So user has to go: tap > More > Application manager > Secondary-actions menu > Application Catalogues > "Maemo Extras"[sic] > untick "Disabled" > Save and *then* the big-friendly "Download" button |
| 16:41.57 | under_spoon | FAIL |
| 16:42.18 | under_spoon | Nokia acts like we have leprosy or something. |
| 16:42.23 | GeneralAntilles | Well, Maemo Select should be on the desktop, right? |
| 16:42.38 | GeneralAntilles | A nice big pretty link like that is going to lead to a lot of clicking. |
| 16:42.47 | GeneralAntilles | Which leads to them enabling Extras |
| 16:42.52 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: True |
| 16:43.08 | GeneralAntilles | (Unless Nokia plans on mirroring all of the Maemo Select packages elsewhere, which I wouldn't put past them.) |
| 16:43.15 | jeremiah | Flandry: Yes - exactly. The diff is the difference between the debianized tarball and the orig. |
| 16:43.21 | GeneralAntilles | Which makes disabling it by default all the more idiotic. |
| 16:43.24 | *** join/#maemo dottedmag (n=dottedma@altlinux/developer/dottedmag) |
| 16:43.29 | jeremiah | I think there is a tool called debdiff you can use to peer into that. |
| 16:43.31 | jeremiah | looks |
| 16:43.54 | Flandry | this is all making a lot more sense |
| 16:44.00 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki_ (n=Meizirkk@80.220.238.64) |
| 16:44.24 | Flandry | all the apt-get source does is get the diff and orig and then apply the diff to the untarred content |
| 16:44.29 | jeremiah | Flandry: Ah cool. |
| 16:44.35 | GeneralAntilles | depersonalizes his N800. |
| 16:44.39 | jeremiah | Flandry: Yup, you get it. :) |
| 16:45.02 | jeremiah | It is pretty minimal actually, using a toolset nearly any linuxish computer should have. |
| 16:45.03 | qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles: Taking the Barbie stickers off it? |
| 16:45.21 | Flandry | lol |
| 16:45.33 | jeremiah | Why would you take the Barbie stickers off? |
| 16:45.38 | jeremiah | They are the best part. |
| 16:45.44 | GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, booting back to the internal flash and removing Modest settings and whatnot. ;) |
| 16:45.45 | jeremiah | Malibu barbie FTW! |
| 16:46.31 | qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles: Now, see, if you had not used Modest, you wouldn't have to remove its settings and you may still have some of your sanity intact... |
| 16:46.51 | GeneralAntilles | doesn't want creepers at FLS going through his mail. |
| 16:46.51 | qwerty12 | +had |
| 16:47.44 | qwerty12 | Take the N900... |
| 16:49.04 | GeneralAntilles | Nobody at FLS is touching my N900. :P |
| 16:49.19 | GeneralAntilles | Last thing I need is a bunch of Linux people blogging about Nokia demoing a prototype at FLS. |
| 16:49.57 | Moabird | How is the n900 by the way? |
| 16:50.30 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I think the easy answer to that question is "lawyers are nasty people". |
| 16:51.06 | *** join/#maemo aakashd (n=aakashd@63.245.220.240) |
| 16:51.17 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=Miranda@80.240.220.132) |
| 16:51.25 | wazd | 'lo maemo |
| 16:53.00 | jeremiah | 'lo wazd |
| 16:53.11 | *** join/#maemo n6pfk (n=n6pfk__@96.238.186.191) |
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| 16:54.43 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, good or a bad idea to wear my old maemo t-shirt to FLS? *g* |
| 16:54.52 | GeneralAntilles | Think it'll just confuse the poor bloggers even more? ;) |
| 16:54.55 | wazd | now I'm crazy full HD bastard |
| 16:54.55 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Good. Always good :) |
| 16:55.05 | *** join/#maemo gunni (n=quassel@xdsl-84-44-135-215.netcologne.de) |
| 16:55.13 | *** join/#maemo n6pfk (n=n6pfk__@96.238.186.191) |
| 16:55.31 | GeneralAntilles | wishes somebody had saved him a shirt from the Summit. |
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| 17:06.36 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, ping? |
| 17:06.51 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, pong |
| 17:07.45 | GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, does BlueMaemo handle any multimedia stuff directly? |
| 17:08.15 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, on the device, nop :) |
| 17:08.26 | GeneralAntilles | So it's not multimedia. :P |
| 17:08.30 | GeneralAntilles | It's a Bluetooth utility. |
| 17:08.37 | GeneralAntilles | Bluetooth utilities are a system thing. |
| 17:10.49 | VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, but system, seems strange, I'll think a bit about it, but probably will change it :) |
| 17:12.39 | wazd | VDVsx: heya |
| 17:13.09 | VDVsx | wazd, hey !! |
| 17:13.30 | *** join/#maemo lbt (n=david@78.32.229.233) |
| 17:13.32 | wazd | VDVsx: http://s44.radikal.ru/i105/0910/4e/2d24874719e3.jpg <- what do you think? |
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| 17:14.06 | zash | wazd: nice |
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| 17:15.20 | VDVsx | wazd, nice, the icons seems smaller than the ones in the menu, but I like it ;) |
| 17:16.53 | iDialekt | Im curious to see what last minute changes nokia is making to the n900 |
| 17:18.10 | *** join/#maemo Anwarboy11 (n=aneesanw@92.28.130.157) |
| 17:18.19 | *** join/#maemo n6pfk (n=n6pfk__@96.238.186.191) |
| 17:18.30 | Anwarboy11 | hello people |
| 17:18.31 | Moabird | iDialekt: The keyboard is apparently going to be removed, and all apps will have to be installed via the app store. Other than that, it stays the same. :P |
| 17:18.55 | Anwarboy11 | anyone know of a release date for the nokia n900? |
| 17:19.03 | wazd | VDVsx: cool :) |
| 17:19.17 | qwerty12 | Moabird: You forgot the change to a capacitive screen... |
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| 17:19.33 | *** join/#maemo pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0C0BA.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:19.42 | Moabird | That too. |
| 17:20.03 | Moabird | Anwarboy11: In the US, sometime this month, I believe. |
| 17:22.03 | Hydroxide | Moabird: last official public comment by someone who knows and can speak for nokia was saying some time in november for the first shipments, including the US |
| 17:22.16 | Hydroxide | Moabird: I'd love it if he was overstimating the delay :) |
| 17:22.27 | Hydroxide | *overestimating |
| 17:22.29 | Anwarboy11 | oh yes we all would |
| 17:22.41 | *** join/#maemo tekonivel (n=user@77.72.56.56) |
| 17:22.46 | Anwarboy11 | i so wanted this phone for novemeber 2nd, that was the old date |
| 17:22.51 | Hydroxide | waiting since September 3rd |
| 17:22.54 | *** part/#maemo Moabird (n=Moabird@76.211.225.243) |
| 17:22.59 | Hydroxide | (preordered then) |
| 17:23.05 | *** join/#maemo Moabird (n=Moabird@76.211.225.243) |
| 17:23.06 | Anwarboy11 | wow |
| 17:23.23 | Anwarboy11 | i preorderd 2 weeks ago, before that i was about to buy a s.e satio |
| 17:23.30 | Moabird | Well, they better get it here in large numbers before Christmas or I expect the Android phones to grab a lot of its marketshare. |
| 17:23.36 | Hydroxide | Moabird: indeed |
| 17:23.48 | Anwarboy11 | oh theyl be here 4 christmas im sure |
| 17:24.10 | Hydroxide | Moabird: the same person's statments made it clear that they intended to push out a software updated by christmas that would already be after the first shipments. so they're clearly planning on it |
| 17:24.39 | Hydroxide | (this is Peter Schneider, head of Maemo Marketing, speaking on the maemo forums. he wasn't trying to anonymous) |
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| 17:24.50 | Hydroxide | +be |
| 17:24.57 | Anwarboy11 | i think at the moment they are using the feedback to create the new software update for the developers |
| 17:24.59 | Moabird | Hydroxide: Well I did also say 'in large numbers'. A limited supply wouldn't work either. I wonder just why it's delayed, anyhow. |
| 17:25.10 | Anwarboy11 | then after the new update is tested they shud release |
| 17:25.26 | Hydroxide | Moabird: yeah. no public news on that beyond that, yes, they're taking into account feedback from the 300 maemo summit loaner units |
| 17:25.31 | *** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@93.132.147.27) |
| 17:25.32 | Anwarboy11 | its delayed cos they are using feedback to improve software |
| 17:25.35 | VDVsx | is going for a walk in the sunny California ;) bbl |
| 17:25.54 | Moabird | Sunny? You must be in LA, then. |
| 17:26.02 | Anwarboy11 | the software we'll get on the commercial phones will be the new one |
| 17:26.07 | Hydroxide | yep |
| 17:26.18 | Anwarboy11 | What phone are you guys using at the moment? |
| 17:26.36 | Hydroxide | currently? AT&T tilt, dual-boot between WinMo 6.1 and a ported Android 1.5 |
| 17:26.57 | Anwarboy11 | nice, im just using my realy old s.e w850i |
| 17:27.03 | Flandry | how do we know when you get access to upload to extras? Is it an email? |
| 17:27.04 | GeneralAntilles | N900 :P |
| 17:27.12 | GeneralAntilles | Flandry, X-Fade will email you. |
| 17:27.20 | GeneralAntilles | When did you send the request? |
| 17:27.20 | Anwarboy11 | ure luck general |
| 17:27.22 | VDVsx | Moabird, Mountain view, not too hot, but it's fine ;) |
| 17:27.31 | Flandry | a couple hours ago |
| 17:27.34 | Flandry | maybe less |
| 17:27.35 | Anwarboy11 | r u one of the summit testers? |
| 17:27.35 | Flandry | :D |
| 17:27.47 | GeneralAntilles | Flandry, X-Fade may be done for today. |
| 17:27.55 | Moabird | VDVsx: Really? I was in Palo Alto earlier this morning and it was bloody freezing. |
| 17:28.01 | GeneralAntilles | Flandry, so latest I would expect it is Monday. |
| 17:28.11 | Flandry | oh poo |
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| 17:28.41 | Anwarboy11 | anyone else here from uk? |
| 17:28.43 | Flandry | that's what i get for waiting until i get the thing to build first eh |
| 17:29.19 | *** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 17:29.48 | Anwarboy11 | Anyone else here pre-ordered, whose from the uk? |
| 17:30.06 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (n=alehorst@187.59.21.96) |
| 17:30.59 | Anwarboy11 | well.. |
| 17:31.00 | *** join/#maemo vivijim1 (n=vivijim@189.115.167.250) |
| 17:31.39 | Anwarboy11 | slaps alextreme around a bit with a large trout |
| 17:32.05 | Anwarboy11 | time to do my geography coursework..... |
| 17:32.13 | Anwarboy11 | anyone here know python? |
| 17:33.08 | adeus | yes |
| 17:33.11 | *** join/#maemo hannesw__ (n=hannes@91.114.228.174) |
| 17:33.32 | Anwarboy11 | can you give me tips on how i could start learning it |
| 17:34.18 | *** join/#maemo disq (n=hede@94.75.216.54) |
| 17:34.55 | Anwarboy11 | slaps adeus around a bit with a large trout |
| 17:35.14 | Anwarboy11 | WHY DOES NOBODY CHAT HERE? |
| 17:35.25 | GeneralAntilles | is busy getting ready for FLS. |
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| 17:35.41 | adeus | I'd probably read some tutorial and start from there |
| 17:35.47 | Stskeeps | Anwarboy11: this isnt python and in europe its friday evening. google python tutorial |
| 17:36.28 | Anwarboy11 | is python the 1st language i should learn for coding in maemo? |
| 17:36.33 | zerojay | GeneralAntilles: If I'm not back by Monday, blame Ovi Maps. |
| 17:37.01 | adeus | If you're counting on getting lost, then maps is a good bet |
| 17:37.11 | Stskeeps | ow. going to rely on ovi maps? |
| 17:37.25 | Stskeeps | waves bye to zerojay |
| 17:37.42 | qwerty12 | Who knows, he may actually end up in the British Halifax, instead... |
| 17:37.56 | zerojay | Stskeeps: Gonna have nothing else with me except the N900 for the weekend in a strange city. |
| 17:38.05 | zerojay | I'm writing up my experiences as well. |
| 17:38.13 | adeus | which city |
| 17:38.21 | *** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 17:38.27 | Stskeeps | zerojay: and 3g conn? |
| 17:38.33 | Anwarboy11 | slaps aspect around a bit with a large trout |
| 17:38.37 | zerojay | adeus: Halifax, Canada. |
| 17:38.50 | *** join/#maemo nielsslot (n=quassel@86.93.198.169) |
| 17:38.55 | zerojay | Stskeeps: Can't get 3G in Canada with the N900. |
| 17:39.03 | Stskeeps | ow. :P |
| 17:39.06 | zerojay | So 2.5... but it doesn't bother me. |
| 17:39.15 | Hydroxide | will be able to get 3G, yes? isn't someone rolling out AWS up there? |
| 17:39.15 | zerojay | Already got maps downloaded anyways. |
| 17:39.36 | zerojay | http://www.zerojay.com/wp/2009/10/my-trip-with-the-nokia-n900-day-1/ |
| 17:41.12 | GeneralAntilles | zerojay, have fun. ;) |
| 17:41.31 | *** join/#maemo alexga (n=alex@87.223.175.15) |
| 17:41.54 | zerojay | GeneralAntilles: We'll see. :) |
| 17:41.57 | GeneralAntilles | hits the road for Orlando. |
| 17:42.23 | qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles: Orlando? You? |
| 17:42.28 | qwerty12 | dies in shock |
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| 17:43.39 | wazd | oh, btw, while buying new LCD I've tested 3D display from Viewsonic/nVidia |
| 17:43.45 | wazd | That's fucking awesome |
| 17:43.50 | *** join/#maemo briglia (n=briglia@189.2.128.130) |
| 17:43.56 | wazd | but way too expensive for what it is |
| 17:43.59 | qwerty12 | zerojay: I'd really take another GPS device, or something... Ovi Maps on the N900 at home did not appeal to me, not one bit... |
| 17:44.44 | Ceron^ | zerojay: http://www.flickr.com/photos/zerojay/4026774873/ seriously stop eating so much calories! |
| 17:44.57 | Ceron^ | the n900 wont be able to stay in earths gravity |
| 17:45.06 | Ceron^ | for long, your making your own gravity :P |
| 17:45.07 | adeus | nah burn more calories! |
| 17:45.26 | zerojay | Ceron^: I have to keep my girlish figure. |
| 17:45.32 | Ceron^ | oh |
| 17:46.25 | zerojay | qwerty12: I dunno... so far, it's been good to me without any issues. Seems like there's a lot more POIs for Halifax than there were for Quebec, so we'll see. |
| 17:46.57 | Ceron^ | is the gps actually that bad |
| 17:47.01 | Ceron^ | or is it the ovi maps |
| 17:47.03 | qwerty12 | Well, good luck with it all! :) |
| 17:47.30 | qwerty12 | Ceron^: GPS, as long as you have a network connection, is awesome; I just dislike Ovi Maps... |
| 17:47.30 | zerojay | Ceron^: It's been pretty damn good for me so far. |
| 17:47.30 | Ceron^ | :) |
| 17:47.30 | zerojay | Lock takes 5-30 seconds tops. |
| 17:47.51 | zerojay | My complaint about Ovi Maps on the N900 is that you can't create your own POIs apparently. |
| 17:47.53 | Ceron^ | why would it need network connection :P |
| 17:48.13 | Ceron^ | i have had gps's for ages |
| 17:48.25 | Ceron^ | the a-gps is not that important |
| 17:48.36 | Ceron^ | they have all worked fine without cell tower information |
| 17:49.45 | fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: Actaully, fiferboy was available on flickr, just not on yahoo o_O |
| 17:49.59 | fiferboy | So I am fifer_boy on yahoo and fiferboy on flickr. Weird. |
| 17:50.17 | qwerty12 | fiferboy is weird |
| 17:50.27 | fiferboy | is weird |
| 17:53.00 | Hydroxide | fiferboy: so they won't let you merge your accounts? |
| 17:53.34 | fiferboy | Hydroxide: Someone else has the fiferboy yahoo account, but I somehow got the fiferboy flickr account |
| 17:54.44 | zerojay | My original Yahoo account got fucked because they originally didn't allow case sensitivity and then did... or something like that. Broke my account to the point that Yahoo just told me "make another, it won't ever work". |
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| 18:21.01 | Flandry | a-gps speeds it up a lot |
| 18:21.13 | Flandry | using the servers to do the crunching |
| 18:23.05 | Flandry | question about debianization: is the Type of Package: field important? |
| 18:23.11 | RST38h | that is not exactly how agps works but anyway |
| 18:23.16 | Flandry | it doesn't exist on the debian package i'm looking out |
| 18:23.31 | jeremiah | Flandry: Yeah, it is |
| 18:23.34 | Flandry | you're thinking of cell tower triangulation |
| 18:23.42 | jeremiah | If you mean like Source vs. Binary types? |
| 18:23.44 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (n=JRocha@40.86.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 18:23.53 | Flandry | single vs multiple |
| 18:24.05 | jeremiah | ah |
| 18:24.20 | jeremiah | You want a single |
| 18:24.30 | jeremiah | You are probably just building a lib right? |
| 18:24.37 | Flandry | no this is for a game |
| 18:24.44 | jeremiah | Oh, I see |
| 18:24.47 | Flandry | it includes a binary and some files |
| 18:24.58 | GAN900 | ~ping |
| 18:24.59 | infobot | ~pong |
| 18:25.00 | jeremiah | How many binary packages will this source package build? |
| 18:25.17 | Flandry | hmmm |
| 18:25.30 | jeremiah | If you are building foo-dev, foo, and foo-dbg, then you need multiple |
| 18:25.37 | GAN900 | Don't tell me Ovi wont accept an address. . . . |
| 18:25.40 | Flandry | do i have to have it build the content packages |
| 18:25.40 | jeremiah | If you are just building foo, no big deal |
| 18:25.51 | Flandry | i mean, the autobuilder |
| 18:25.56 | Flandry | or can i upload those |
| 18:26.11 | jeremiah | Flandry: By content package do you mean Source package or do you mean some data dir? |
| 18:26.11 | Flandry | if the latter it's just a single package |
| 18:26.32 | Flandry | game content like audio, video |
| 18:26.56 | jeremiah | So you are going to ship .mp3 files for example? |
| 18:27.24 | Flandry | yeah there is content that is zipped up using a tool |
| 18:27.41 | Flandry | but it seems silly to have the autobuilder do that |
| 18:27.49 | jeremiah | Well, if the content does not need to be 'built' then you don't need to have the autobuilder do it. |
| 18:27.55 | Flandry | k |
| 18:28.05 | jeremiah | You can just ship it with the package in a "data" dir |
| 18:28.15 | jeremiah | Or an "example" dir |
| 18:28.24 | jeremiah | Or call it whatever you want |
| 18:28.25 | Flandry | can i not have it depend on another package? |
| 18:28.26 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@91.114.228.174) |
| 18:28.50 | Flandry | and make a separate data package |
| 18:29.06 | jeremiah | I suppose you could do a virtual package or something |
| 18:29.12 | jeremiah | But that is a little more work |
| 18:29.13 | Flandry | i'm not sure how that would work with maemo's installer |
| 18:29.22 | jeremiah | Are people going to download the data separately? |
| 18:29.30 | jeremiah | Does it make sense that they might? |
| 18:29.47 | Flandry | there are more add-ons than i will include in the default |
| 18:29.49 | Flandry | so they could |
| 18:30.03 | jeremiah | I think you should include it, or look at Frozen bubble and see how they add their data |
| 18:30.16 | Flandry | game as it will come is about 15 mg |
| 18:30.18 | Flandry | MB |
| 18:30.22 | Flandry | mg lol |
| 18:30.27 | jeremiah | No so bad. |
| 18:30.31 | jeremiah | For a game anyway. |
| 18:30.32 | Flandry | the optional content is 110 mb more |
| 18:30.35 | Flandry | and there are others |
| 18:30.38 | jeremiah | oh. |
| 18:30.52 | jeremiah | Can't you put links to that and keep it on the web or something? |
| 18:31.10 | Flandry | i don't know what's the maemo way |
| 18:31.25 | jeremiah | reads our incomplete policy document |
| 18:31.34 | Flandry | ha |
| 18:32.43 | mgedmin | openarena and openarena-data together are ~300 megs |
| 18:32.49 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (i=c336e713@SecuraBit/listener/crashanddie) |
| 18:32.57 | jeremiah | Maemo Packaging Policy Section 3.9.6: |
| 18:32.58 | mgedmin | It makes sense to package game data separately, I think |
| 18:33.31 | *** join/#maemo IcanCU (n=IcanCU@3E336208.dslaccess.aol.com) |
| 18:33.33 | Flandry | so an end user would install two packages? |
| 18:33.36 | jeremiah | If the packaged software has different configurations those configurations SHOULD be package separately |
| 18:33.47 | Flandry | otherwise how would they remove the data |
| 18:34.07 | jeremiah | Configurations could be simple files in /etc or something more complex such as themes or pluggable modules |
| 18:34.30 | jeremiah | So it looks like official policy is to have a separate package. |
| 18:34.51 | mgedmin | well, the end user would install the game |
| 18:34.58 | Flandry | i suppose automatically removing the content when uninstalling the game is acceptable |
| 18:35.00 | mgedmin | the data package would be a dependency and would be installed automatically |
| 18:35.16 | mgedmin | I think the app manager is smart enough to remove those packages when the main package is removed |
| 18:35.23 | Flandry | oh really |
| 18:35.24 | ali1234 | surely it should be the other way around? |
| 18:35.31 | mgedmin | um, no |
| 18:35.31 | Flandry | i thought i read it wouldn't default ever to that |
| 18:35.34 | mgedmin | game depends on data |
| 18:35.50 | ali1234 | data depends on game, because you might want the game and some other data |
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| 18:35.54 | ali1234 | but the data alone is useless |
| 18:36.07 | Flandry | oh man |
| 18:36.11 | kkito | hello |
| 18:36.14 | Flandry | now i'm really confused :D |
| 18:36.20 | mgedmin | well, then have "some other data" say it Provides what the game needs |
| 18:36.26 | mgedmin | every Debian-packaged game has "game depends on data" |
| 18:36.30 | mgedmin | just look at them |
| 18:36.41 | ali1234 | everyone is wrong but me |
| 18:36.44 | Flandry | so how does the data get removed? |
| 18:36.52 | kkito | i am trying to build a opengl-es2 game for fremantle, but i am unable to run it under X86 or ARMEL (scratchbox) |
| 18:36.56 | jeremiah | Maemo Packaging Policy Section 3.9.6: |
| 18:36.59 | jeremiah | If the packaged software has different configurations those configurations SHOULD be package separately |
| 18:37.05 | jeremiah | Configurations could be simple files in /etc or something more complex such as themes or pluggable modules |
| 18:37.10 | kkito | do you know if it is possible to debug opengl-es2 apps in scratchbox |
| 18:37.20 | ali1234 | kkito: currently no afaik |
| 18:37.20 | jeremiah | ^^ The above is OFFICIAL MAEMO POLICY. :) |
| 18:37.22 | *** join/#maemo hannesw_ (n=hannes@93.82.73.72) |
| 18:37.24 | kkito | and how to do it? |
| 18:37.32 | Flandry | sooo helpful |
| 18:37.33 | kkito | then i need a device to run the binary? |
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| 18:37.49 | jeremiah | Flandry: Well, in short, it means package the sample game separately |
| 18:38.04 | jeremiah | And have the game pull in your data with a depends line |
| 18:38.05 | Flandry | so there are two packages the user installs? |
| 18:38.06 | jeremiah | Easy |
| 18:38.11 | jeremiah | Flandry: Yeah. |
| 18:38.16 | jeremiah | At least. |
| 18:38.16 | Flandry | ok |
| 18:38.26 | jeremiah | They may have to install other dependencies as well no? |
| 18:38.38 | mgedmin | hmm |
| 18:38.41 | Flandry | um they should be automatic shouldn't they? |
| 18:38.58 | mgedmin | if I try to uninstall openarena from the app manager, it says it's going to free 3 megs of device memory |
| 18:39.09 | ali1234 | kkito: well you can target the gl-es simulator, but i don't know how to do that |
| 18:39.14 | mgedmin | no word about uninstalling openarena-data that is hundreds of megs |
| 18:39.21 | mgedmin | I'm not actually going with it just to see it worked |
| 18:39.29 | Flandry | see that's the problem i'm trying to avoid |
| 18:39.36 | mgedmin | downloading 300 megs back over a 0.3 Mbit/s 3g connection would not be fun |
| 18:40.06 | Flandry | i will make one package that has the game and the basic content |
| 18:40.17 | Flandry | and another package that depends on it with the optional data |
| 18:40.21 | mgedmin | Flandry: how big is the "basic content"? |
| 18:40.27 | RST38h | a UnitedHealth subsidiary in Colorado denied coverage to Peggy Robertson, mother of two, because she wasnt sterilized after her caesarian-section delivery procedure, according to a letter made public. |
| 18:40.28 | Flandry | 15 mb |
| 18:40.37 | mgedmin | not too big then |
| 18:40.53 | Flandry | game itself about 4-5 |
| 18:41.04 | Flandry | i was going to default to include extra music |
| 18:41.07 | Flandry | so 15 |
| 18:41.11 | mgedmin | just please don't forget to optify it ;) |
| 18:41.14 | Flandry | but not voice files |
| 18:41.35 | Flandry | i don't think i can put the optional data in a different directory |
| 18:41.36 | mgedmin | non-scrollable apps menu sucks, but I don't wanna reboot |
| 18:41.36 | Flandry | of wait |
| 18:41.54 | Flandry | can i symlink to the user partition? |
| 18:42.17 | Flandry | put the game package in /opt |
| 18:42.28 | Flandry | and symlink to the optional package in user partition? |
| 18:42.36 | Flandry | or is 120MB ok for /opt |
| 18:43.46 | jeremiah | "/opt" is designed to hold lots O data |
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| 18:44.04 | Flandry | about 1 GB right |
| 18:44.10 | jeremiah | I think more. |
| 18:44.27 | Flandry | hmm someone needs to update wiki |
| 18:44.35 | jeremiah | I thought 2 gigs or so, but there are others here who no more about the optification |
| 18:44.53 | Flandry | alright i'll just stick it all in opt |
| 18:45.15 | Flandry | /opt/games |
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| 18:47.33 | ali1234 | <PROTECTED> |
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| 18:48.52 | mikkov__ | mgedmin: application manager doesn't uninstall depencies installed by apt-get (at leas in maemo4) |
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| 19:12.39 | v6sa | Hey guys |
| 19:13.03 | v6sa | I have managed to mess up filesystem on my N900, is there any possibility to access console? |
| 19:13.22 | v6sa | to boot to recovery mode or something like that? |
| 19:13.36 | mgedmin_ | uh oh |
| 19:13.42 | mgedmin_ | so it doesn't boot? |
| 19:13.46 | v6sa | yeah... :S |
| 19:13.59 | luke-jr | v6sa: nope. better send it to me. |
| 19:14.01 | luke-jr | <.< |
| 19:14.17 | Stskeeps | v6sa: only if you wire up a serial port |
| 19:14.49 | hardaker | better: send me yours and one working one and I'll play with them until they both work (or are both broken). No charge. |
| 19:14.50 | wazd | I love how all bloggers and analysts can't see the real reason for sueing Apple |
| 19:14.51 | mgedmin_ | v6sa: I think your best bet is contacting quim and asking nicely for a flashable OS image |
| 19:15.00 | wazd | That's damn funny |
| 19:15.02 | mgedmin_ | wazd: money? |
| 19:15.09 | wazd | mgedmin_: ofcourse not |
| 19:15.21 | wazd | mgedmin_: no money, no "fear" or whatever |
| 19:15.23 | mgedmin_ | inherent evilness of the patent system? |
| 19:15.25 | Firebird | because they can? |
| 19:15.25 | v6sa | mgedin_: quim said that images are available after the official release |
| 19:15.34 | mgedmin_ | v6sa: which is middle of november |
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| 19:16.15 | mgedmin_ | do you know what you broke? |
| 19:16.35 | mgedmin_ | maybe using the flasher to enable R&D mode and disable the software watchdog would let your n900 limp to some kind of boot? |
| 19:16.36 | wazd | mgedmin_: Nokia: Not long ago we had a deal bouut having multitouch license. Can we? |
| 19:16.37 | wazd | Apple (Jobs): no, screw you, hahahaha! |
| 19:16.37 | wazd | Nokia: Ok |
| 19:16.37 | Xisdibik | mgedmin_: dont remind me :( Middle of november *sob* |
| 19:16.58 | mgedmin_ | see, patents are evil |
| 19:17.21 | ShadowJK | hopes new battery for his N810 arrives soon |
| 19:17.21 | wazd | mgedmin_: Steve Jobs is just crazy man, that's all :) |
| 19:17.56 | v6sa | mgedmin_: it's not good enough for nwo |
| 19:18.06 | mgedmin_ | nwo? |
| 19:18.09 | ifreq | wazd: crazy man who does lots of money. |
| 19:18.26 | v6sa | mgedmin_: now |
| 19:18.30 | mgedmin_ | ah |
| 19:18.42 | v6sa | any other suggestions? |
| 19:18.57 | wazd | ifreq: "doing lots of money" is not the goal of life |
| 19:18.58 | mgedmin_ | no |
| 19:19.19 | ifreq | wazd: what is the ultimate goal? die? |
| 19:19.57 | wazd | ifreq: I don't know, but definitely not collecting paper sheets of different colors |
| 19:20.07 | wazd | ifreq: our life is not Monopoly :) |
| 19:20.38 | Flyser | does anyone know what the purpose of the cellmo headers in maemo 5 is |
| 19:20.59 | *** join/#maemo bilboed (n=bilboed@89.129.137.130) |
| 19:21.15 | thp | how can I upload the webpage of garage projects that use Git instead of SVN? |
| 19:21.43 | v6sa | mgedmin: what about console? |
| 19:21.45 | v6sa | via us |
| 19:21.46 | v6sa | usb |
| 19:22.47 | mgedmin | no clue |
| 19:22.50 | mgedmin | does such a thing exist? |
| 19:23.13 | mgedmin | hmm... with flasher maybe you can pass arguments on the kernel's cmdline |
| 19:23.20 | RST38h | feels ok about making lots of money as a goal |
| 19:23.32 | Firebird | there's still USB dropbear ssh isn't there? |
| 19:23.47 | mgedmin | and on older devices it was possible to enable a serial console with the flasher, if you connected the right leads to the right JTAG pins somewhere |
| 19:23.50 | mgedmin | under the battery iirc |
| 19:24.22 | mgedmin | well, USB networking can work if the device (a) boots and (b) can be convinced to ifconfig usb0 correctly |
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| 19:27.36 | coldboot | What's that command you type to see what the system is doing? So say you plug in a usb thing, it will print a message to something. |
| 19:27.42 | coldboot | I can't believe I've forgotten it... |
| 19:27.56 | coldboot | Usually you pipe it to tail, it's got all kernel messages in it... |
| 19:27.59 | fiferboy | coldboot: dmesg? |
| 19:28.03 | coldboot | thanks |
| 19:29.55 | v6sa | how do I boot it to use with flasher? |
| 19:30.00 | v6sa | I mean start up |
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| 19:33.09 | wiretapped | http://www.hahastop.com/pictures/Webcam_Repair.jpg |
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| 19:37.33 | BBNS | mmm nice, git for maemo announced. hopefully that will fasten the development cycle. |
| 19:38.09 | mgedmin | *sigh* |
| 19:38.36 | BBNS | mgedmin: what? :Q |
| 19:38.45 | `0660 | i'm sure the development will now speed up ten-fold :) |
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| 19:38.50 | mgedmin | no maemo 5 kernel sources there |
| 19:38.55 | mgedmin | I can't build iptables |
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| 19:39.20 | mgedmin | whenever wlan hiccups my ssh proxy dies and xchat loses connection |
| 19:40.44 | BBNS | mgedmin: i though you could build your get kernel source from SDK? o.o maybe i am wrong. |
| 19:40.51 | BBNS | didn't look that part yet. |
| 19:40.56 | mgedmin | SDK has older kernel than my preproduction n900 |
| 19:41.23 | mgedmin | this is an interesting package name: http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-pkg/ugly-hacks |
| 19:41.28 | BBNS | alright, then just wait then. =p it's already amazed they release so many sources. |
| 19:41.32 | v6sa | mgedmin: I am screwed? :D:D |
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| 19:41.54 | mgedmin | v6sa: seriously, have you talked to qgil about the fact that your n900 is bricked? |
| 19:42.01 | mgedmin | if he says you're screwed, then you're screwed |
| 19:42.15 | BBNS | it's interesting to see Calendar framework is iCal standard ... maybe someone could make it sync with Mac? =P |
| 19:44.07 | mgedmin | hm... http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenDevelopment says the kernel is at http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/tmlind/linux-omap-2.6.git;a=summary |
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| 19:46.37 | jeremiah | BBNS: I have been trying to do that, and there is no obvious way |
| 19:47.22 | mgedmin_ | there's a v2.6.28-omap1 tag that matches my kernel version |
| 19:47.34 | mgedmin_ | but it was made on Fri, 9 Jan 2009 |
| 19:47.46 | mgedmin_ | there's no way it's exactly the same code |
| 19:48.13 | Flandry | where the hell is uuencode? |
| 19:48.37 | mgedmin_ | /usr/bin/uuencode |
| 19:48.42 | mgedmin_ | why do you ask? |
| 19:49.15 | Flandry | trying to use it to encode an icon, and it's not in path |
| 19:49.39 | Flandry | actually it's not there oO |
| 19:50.29 | Flandry | Package uuencode is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source |
| 19:50.59 | BBNS | jeremiah: what's the difficulty? o.o |
| 19:51.01 | Flandry | anyone else have uuencode in their scratchbox? |
| 19:51.07 | mgedmin_ | yes, I |
| 19:51.17 | mgedmin_ | it comes from sharutils 1:4.2.1-13maemo1 |
| 19:51.21 | mgedmin_ | according to dpkg -S |
| 19:51.30 | mgedmin_ | afaik it was preinstalled in the rootstrap |
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| 19:52.23 | Flandry | the package sharutils is not installed |
| 19:53.15 | Flandry | bizarre |
| 19:53.21 | Flandry | well i got it now; thanks for help |
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| 19:57.12 | mgedmin_ | maybe it wasn't preinstalled, let me check /var/log/dpkg.log |
| 19:57.26 | mgedmin_ | no such file |
| 20:00.20 | Flandry | well i guess i'm glad i'm not crazy |
| 20:00.26 | Flandry | seems to me it should be though |
| 20:05.59 | *** part/#maemo kr1shnak__ (n=kr1shnak@host86-147-196-255.range86-147.btcentralplus.com) |
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| 20:12.01 | mgedmin_ | hm, a few minutes ago personal-gprs-monitor showed 150 megs downloaded |
| 20:12.06 | mgedmin_ | now it shows 7 kB |
| 20:12.12 | mgedmin_ | the device just reset its counters |
| 20:12.22 | mgedmin_ | last reset date still says "Never" |
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| 20:16.07 | fiferboy | mgedmin_: zerojay has noted that too. I think there is a bug open on it, although I haven't seen it |
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| 20:19.21 | fiferboy | mgedmin_: As I understand it, that data in the system is being reset |
| 20:19.30 | fiferboy | That is, it shows as reset in the control panel as well |
| 20:19.31 | mgedmin_ | yes |
| 20:19.34 | mgedmin_ | true |
| 20:19.52 | mgedmin_ | I was just noticing that it reset without my interaction (e.g. rebooting, or disconnecting 3g) |
| 20:19.59 | mgedmin_ | all by itself |
| 20:21.15 | fiferboy | I think zerojay said the bug was closed recently, but that the problem still exists so should be reopened |
| 20:25.50 | Firebird | http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9859/uimock.png mmm, added some chairs |
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| 20:36.06 | jeremiah | BBNS: Well, you would think there would be something like 'import calendar' on the device, but I can't find taht. |
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| 20:39.41 | Xisdibik | hey mgedmin how much usage you think one should expect with it just idleing around with widgets updating + email. in a day |
| 20:40.09 | Xisdibik | widgets like weather etc |
| 20:40.37 | Xisdibik | and i mean like kb/mb per day not hours of life ;) |
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| 20:49.29 | sontek | Hey, does the n900 work well as a phone? I loved the n800 but didn't want to carry 2 devices |
| 20:49.39 | mgedmin | Xisdibik: no clue, I never idle |
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| 20:51.46 | achipa | I can't believe it... I have my very own 'fixed in Fremantle' bug |
| 20:51.52 | achipa | feels very strange |
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| 21:00.16 | mgedmin | gah, having fun with my n900 dying from high loadavg and swapin/swapout storms |
| 21:00.37 | mgedmin | happens like clockwork whenever uptime reaches 1 day and 10 hours |
| 21:01.13 | mgedmin | 40 minutes of agony and a reboot |
| 21:01.30 | adeus | maybe they've never had their devices up for that long :) |
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| 21:01.40 | mgedmin | I'm sure they have |
| 21:01.41 | frals | am not surprised after reading with your experiments with various kernel drivers (iirc :p) |
| 21:01.44 | mgedmin | mine didn't used to do that |
| 21:01.59 | mgedmin | currently I suspect my use of the n900 as an ad-hoc wifi proxy |
| 21:02.29 | frals | s/with/about/ |
| 21:02.52 | SpeedEvil | cron'd ps, vmstat, ... can help |
| 21:02.55 | SpeedEvil | also oomkiller |
| 21:03.28 | mgedmin | 32wd_to is the bootreason meaning... what? |
| 21:03.49 | mgedmin | hw watchdog |
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| 21:07.38 | ShadowJK | yes |
| 21:11.11 | *** join/#maemo mgedmin (n=mg@c-4f66c489-74736162.cust.telenor.se) |
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| 21:26.48 | achipa | errm... what's the story with the preferred way of reporting bugs ? |
| 21:27.02 | achipa | "http://bugs.maemo.org is the preferred option. Otherwise it needs to be identified in the http://maemo.org/packages/ page. " |
| 21:27.41 | achipa | I don't really see how to register anything in either... is it time to go to sleep/get another coffee ? |
| 21:29.59 | *** join/#maemo Andrewfbl (n=irchon@166.137.4.142) |
| 21:31.19 | ShadowJK | bugs in what |
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| 21:42.41 | *** join/#maemo n6pfk (n=n6pfk__@96.238.186.191) |
| 21:42.52 | achipa | ShadowJK: in a new package |
| 21:42.53 | *** join/#maemo promulo (n=romulo@189.71.59.162) |
| 21:43.28 | achipa | the quote is from the Extras-testing QA guide |
| 21:44.31 | achipa | except I don't see how to register a new project on bugs.maemo.org, nor how to set a bug tracker url in the packages page... |
| 21:45.01 | GAN900 | achipa, talk to me or andre |
| 21:45.28 | GAN900 | achipa, adding a product to bugzilla involves a lot of manual effort. |
| 21:45.44 | GAN900 | So we're not actively encouraging it. |
| 21:46.49 | achipa | okay, so "http://bugs.maemo.org is the preferred option" isn't exactly true :) |
| 21:48.06 | wazd | Damn, I bought pretty nice display by chance :) |
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| 21:48.14 | achipa | GAN900: in short, then, what is the recommended way of resolving this extras-testing blocker ? |
| 21:50.11 | GAN900 | achipa, lots of stuff already has products. :) |
| 21:50.33 | GAN900 | So it's preferred to just leaving a comment if a product exists. |
| 21:50.43 | GAN900 | This guide is for testers. :) |
| 21:51.49 | GAN900 | We should be upgrading to 3.4 soon. |
| 21:52.02 | achipa | GAN900: err, the point is that bug reporting is a QA requirement nowadays for getting into extras |
| 21:53.29 | achipa | GAN900: that's A-OK, except, where do I enter the darn thing ? :) I'd use garage since it's not a product that will gather any serious bug reports, but it's the paperwork that's killing me here |
| 21:53.34 | achipa | use garage = use the garage's tracker |
| 21:53.42 | GAN900 | Goddamn Ovi Maps is useless. |
| 21:53.52 | GAN900 | achipa, what's the packages? |
| 21:54.21 | achipa | GAN900: mirror |
| 21:54.52 | achipa | QGil raised the bug tracker issue as a blocker... |
| 21:54.59 | GAN900 | OK |
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| 21:55.15 | achipa | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/mirror/1.0-3/ |
| 21:55.20 | achipa | here's the grim story :) |
| 21:55.31 | GAN900 | Um, there's a guide on what info you need to open the product on the wiki |
| 21:56.01 | GAN900 | Ask somebody not on GPRS to link you if you can't find it. |
| 21:56.07 | achipa | :) ok |
| 21:56.11 | achipa | thx anyway |
| 21:56.18 | achipa | (it's not in the Bugs: category) |
| 21:56.30 | GAN900 | Then either pm or email that info to me (GeneralAntilles). |
| 21:56.54 | GAN900 | and I'll see if I can get it opened for you tonight or tomorrow. |
| 21:57.15 | GAN900 | Driving to Orlando for FLS now. |
| 21:57.32 | GAN900 | Opening a bugzilla product may be the title. |
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| 21:57.48 | GAN900 | timeless/andre__: ping? |
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| 21:58.21 | achipa | hey, I don't want to push anybody, if it's not super-easy, then it's more of a procedural issue |
| 21:58.57 | achipa | and it will soon become a nightmare as things start to migrate en masse from -devel to -testing |
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| 21:59.53 | GAN900 | Ugh, Ovi Maps crashed |
| 22:00.12 | achipa | welcome to the club :) |
| 22:00.20 | GAN900 | After I found the address by comparing Google Maps to Ovi |
| 22:03.21 | achipa | GAN900: I can write a msg to the -devel list about the issue if you think... 'cause I don't really see the Right Solution (TM) |
| 22:04.18 | achipa | GAN900: this is a _literally_ one liner script/application, so any manual interventions are likely an overkill for it |
| 22:04.23 | GAN900 | achipa, -community |
| 22:04.29 | achipa | GAN900: okay |
| 22:04.39 | GAN900 | to qgil's thread about QA |
| 22:05.00 | achipa | torpedos, los ! |
| 22:05.01 | GAN900 | and I agree, bug products for stuff like that is big overkill |
| 22:05.27 | GAN900 | The packages comment interface is really enough |
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| 22:19.21 | woilok | Hi |
| 22:19.46 | woilok | I just got an 810. What size memory card should I get? Do you guys use a lot of memory with your Nokias? |
| 22:20.22 | achipa | woilok: the bigger the better :) depends on your usage pattern, really |
| 22:20.34 | woilok | I might listen to music and watch a movie. |
| 22:20.47 | woilok | But the battery life on it isn't the greatest (might have to buy a new battery) |
| 22:21.01 | achipa | woilok: BTW you're probably better off buying a microSD with an adapter than looking for a miniSD |
| 22:21.36 | kkito | Someone is able to run opengl-es2 apps under x86 fremantle scratchbox? |
| 22:21.36 | woilok | Why is that achipa? |
| 22:21.36 | woilok | Cheaper? |
| 22:22.09 | achipa | woilok: often it's hard (and expensive) to find large capacity miniSD cards |
| 22:22.33 | GAN900 | Ovi Maps is DANGEROUSLY non-functional. |
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| 22:23.04 | woilok | achipa - Yeah |
| 22:23.04 | achipa | GAN900: i my experience that word is closer to COMPLETELY |
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| 22:23.14 | achipa | s/i/in/ |
| 22:23.20 | ShadowJK | GAN900, have they copied that google maps feature, where you can search for X and get 0 results, despite X being a name clearly visible on screen, on the very map you're viewing? |
| 22:23.40 | GAN900 | ShadowJK, can't even enter an address. |
| 22:23.45 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 22:24.10 | woilok | Thanks achipa |
| 22:24.23 | achipa | woilok: you're welcome |
| 22:24.24 | Ceron^ | GAN900: thats why i will wait for alternative gps software |
| 22:24.25 | GAN900 | The GPS tracking bounces all over the place. |
| 22:24.39 | GAN900 | and it's slooow |
| 22:25.08 | ShadowJK | GAN900, my sirstar bt gps drifted off by 2km today, at 100km/h :) |
| 22:25.08 | GAN900 | My 5800 runs Ovi Maps faster with less than half the horsepower. |
| 22:25.13 | ShadowJK | (I was stationary) |
| 22:25.47 | ShadowJK | I think "Nokia Maps" (later renamed Ovi Maps) is entirely different thing from "Ovi Maps" on N900... |
| 22:25.57 | ShadowJK | s/Maps)/Maps?)/ |
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| 22:27.27 | ariya_home | I guess they are the same, only different version |
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| 22:30.06 | ShadowJK | Nokia Maps on S60 is actually a usable vector map program :-) |
| 22:30.52 | Macer | ugh i hate android |
| 22:31.08 | Macer | maemo doesnt just randomly close apps on its own does it? |
| 22:31.11 | Macer | haha |
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| 22:35.34 | pupnik | gan 900 got the second screen of icons refusing to pan bug? |
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| 22:39.43 | mikkov__ | pupnik: there'a bug about it. killall hildon-desktop is a cure |
| 22:43.39 | crashanddie__ | GeneralAntilles, I'm tempted to get a mac |
| 22:43.43 | crashanddie__ | GeneralAntilles, dunno which one though |
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| 22:45.48 | GAN900 | crashandie_, Mac Pro or i7 iMac |
| 22:46.44 | crashanddie__ | GAN900, thing is, my laptop is falling apart, but if I get a laptop, I'm going to be bummed about overheating, screen size and non-upgradable |
| 22:47.11 | huh | i was wondering why i can't connect to my wireless home network with my Nokia N810? |
| 22:47.11 | crashanddie__ | GAN900, if I get a nice iMac, I'll love the screen size, but I'm going to be bummed when I have to get out my big fat 5 year old laptop |
| 22:47.29 | crashanddie__ | GAN900, that being said, I could just buy a Dell Mini 9 from out there somewhere and hackintosh it :P |
| 22:47.55 | GAN900 | Hehe |
| 22:48.00 | GAN900 | Works OK |
| 22:48.04 | GAN900 | Keyboard sucks |
| 22:48.11 | GAN900 | Although you get used to it. |
| 22:48.24 | crashanddie__ | does it work on mini 10? |
| 22:49.13 | GAN900 | Yes |
| 22:49.33 | dmj7262 | just saw the Winders 7 launch party video... |
| 22:49.44 | crashanddie__ | well, I'll get a mini 10 when I come back from the US |
| 22:49.49 | crashanddie__ | or buy it in the US if cheaper |
| 22:49.53 | huh | i was wondering why i can't connect to my wireless home network with my Nokia N810? |
| 22:50.03 | crashanddie__ | huh, can be for a number of reasons |
| 22:50.12 | crashanddie__ | huh, what encryption is it? |
| 22:50.21 | dmj7262 | and doesn't think that M$'s core audience is going to hold the equivalent of a LUG meeting |
| 22:50.56 | huh | like WEP? |
| 22:51.15 | hardaker | you know, the one thing that worries me about the N900 videos is those silly spinning date thingies for setting times and dates. Every iphone user i know hates those. |
| 22:51.29 | crashanddie__ | hardaker, they are shit, agreed |
| 22:51.38 | hardaker | I hope they accept keyboard typing too |
| 22:53.11 | crashanddie__ | how? |
| 22:55.18 | crashanddie__ | GeneralAntilles, any other dells that work flawlessly? |
| 22:56.03 | DocScrutinizer | does anybody know what's main cause of recent delay of N900 shipping? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5315 ?? |
| 22:57.41 | mikkov__ | it's not ready? |
| 22:57.49 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, Well they handed out 300 phones at the maemo summit. Unfortunately they all exploded, which also resulted in all the people who were going to write apps for n900 dying. But fear not, Nokia has a cunning plan. They will impregnate 2700 females to spawn 300 new developers in a month. This should fix the shortfall. |
| 22:57.59 | DocScrutinizer | haha |
| 22:58.41 | w00t | is stud-extrodinaire |
| 22:58.45 | w00t | :-) |
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| 23:00.49 | pupnik | ty mikkov |
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| 23:08.23 | crashanddie__ | lol.. the dell mini 10v product code starts with "N00B" |
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| 23:13.48 | gomiam | hello. Quick question. What was the way to set the offline/normal mode through the command line? |
| 23:14.56 | gomiam | A year or so ago I lost my ability to choose "offlline mode"/"normal mode" because some file had the wrong valule. Unfortunately, I'm unable to find the solution I was given then. Can anybody help me? |
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| 23:30.05 | hardaker | ha: http://picasaweb.google.com/cschlaeger/JapanLinuxSymposium#5395358413061926434 |
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| 23:36.11 | gomiam | never mind, I managed to find it's /var/lib/mce/mode... now t's time to read how to change it so it works again :) |
| 23:36.33 | gomiam | (and set up a shortcut to do it automatically) |
| 23:37.17 | gomiam | good night... |
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| 23:51.07 | wiretapped | just read http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging%2C_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs |
| 23:51.14 | wiretapped | W T F |
| 23:51.19 | wiretapped | its OS2005 all over again |
| 23:52.09 | wiretapped | can anybody explain why it is like that? |
| 23:52.19 | luke-jr | lol |
| 23:52.49 | wiretapped | "Of course, not everything needs to be moved to /opt: configuration files are best left in /etc, for example" |
| 23:52.55 | wiretapped | that seems exactly backwards |
| 23:53.21 | wiretapped | it would make lots of sense to put configs in MyDocs, if MyDocs doesn't get erased when you flash |
| 23:53.24 | wiretapped | but noooo |
| 23:53.30 | wiretapped | wtf nokia |
| 23:53.31 | wiretapped | wtf |
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| 23:56.22 | achipa | wiretapped: the point od flashing is exactly to restore to factory config |
| 23:56.46 | wiretapped | right. |
| 23:57.03 | wiretapped | but what is the point of shipping a unix system with 100MB free on / ? |
| 23:57.32 | achipa | wiretapped: hardware limitations |
| 23:57.47 | wiretapped | oh that explains everything |
| 23:58.29 | wiretapped | i assume the tiny flash has some properities the bigger flash lacks? |
| 23:59.02 | wiretapped | but what are they? |
| 23:59.42 | wiretapped | and actually that explains nothing |
| 23:59.53 | wiretapped | only laziness can explain this afaict |
