IRC log for #maemo on 20091006

00:01.14TadthebuilderAccording to IGN, the game, which cost an unprecedented $70 million to make,[14] would have had to be purchased twice by every single Dreamcast owner in order for Sega to turn a profit
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00:04.17GeneralAntillesAlright, so who wants to form the Extras QA team?
00:04.37Tadthebuilderwhat is an Extra QA team?
00:04.51Tadthebuilder(quality assurance?)
00:05.36Macerit's funny when the ship argues with herself in andromeda
00:06.24pupnikhow can i help
00:06.49pupnikwhat game?
00:08.23Tadthebuildersorry that was off topic
00:08.25Tadthebuildershenmue...
00:09.19GeneralAntillesIt's like a bugsquad but for testing packages in Extras-testing.
00:09.25GeneralAntilleshttp://maemo.org/packages
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00:10.01Tadthebuilderah makes sense
00:10.38Tadthebuilderim willing to test packages for maemo 4 but I know thats not what your looking for :)
00:11.25GeneralAntillesIt's hard for developers to get their stuff through the queue if nobody's testing.
00:11.29Tadthebuilderif I ever get an n900
00:11.33TadthebuilderIll help
00:11.38GeneralAntillesYou will.
00:11.41GeneralAntillesIt's destiny. :P
00:11.52Tadthebuilderhaha
00:12.04TadthebuilderI cannot afford one on my salary...
00:12.27Tadthebuildermaybe used :)
00:12.31crashanddie__Hot secretary who can't type for shit: "I put the sexy in dyslexic"
00:12.45GeneralAntillescrashanddie__, go to bed.
00:12.51crashanddie__ok, night night
00:12.56TadthebuilderIm hoping a multi-touch fanatic gets one and hates it and sells it :)
00:12.58GeneralAntilleslol
00:15.12Tadthebuilderor you could help out the community by buying me one so I could help out the community
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00:20.15GeneralAntillesTadthebuilder, I'm not going to be able to get myself one if Nokia doesn't help out. :D
00:20.25Tadthebuilderhaha okay
00:20.47Tadthebuilderor unless two multi touch fanatics buy it and then resell it for cheap
00:24.36TadthebuilderI cant install mer and try it out until I know that sound and liqbase-playground work in it :)
00:25.06lcukgithub.com/lcuk if someone feels upto to doin some patchin
00:25.06GeneralAntillesMer isn't ready for day-to-day yet.
00:25.37lcuki think i just filled in my empty circles
00:25.49TadthebuilderI know
00:26.15Tadthebuilderfilled in your empty circles?
00:26.47lcukif you have a windows pc, http://liqbase.net/lcuk_parray.exe
00:27.30Tadthebuilderwell I do but id have to reboot...I have WINE though...so maybe it will work
00:27.54lcuki hear it does
00:27.58lcukneeds the vb libs tho
00:28.42Tadthebuilderdont have those...
00:28.45Tadthebuilderwhat is it?
00:29.23lcukone of my early glimpses at expressing something
00:29.30Tadthebuilderum?
00:29.34lcukhttp://liqbase.net/lcuk_parray.png
00:29.54Tadthebuilderinteresting
00:30.00Tadthebuilderso you filled an empty circle
00:30.05lcukeach of those circles is controllable by the mouse
00:30.18lcukcan be enlarged, or shrunk back down at will
00:30.22Tadthebuilderokay
00:30.22lcukand dragged around
00:30.25Tadthebuildermakes sense
00:30.27lcukits physics view from liqbase
00:30.36Tadthebuilderah okay
00:31.42Tadthebuilderso you filled on of those circles?
00:31.43Tadthebuilderone*
00:33.48TadthebuilderI want ebook reader :)
00:34.11Tadthebuilderactually
00:34.14TadthebuilderI dreamed about it last night
00:34.35Tadthebuilderhave liqbase ebook reader....doing the note taking thing...
00:34.40Tadthebuilderit was like a dream come true
00:34.45Tadthebuilderexcept it was just a dream
00:36.08Tadthebuildernow that I think about it
00:36.15TadthebuilderI should not of said that...I just look wierd.
00:40.27Mouseyg'nite internets..
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00:50.05GAN800FBReader?
00:50.14Tadthebuildernope
00:50.23Tadthebuilderwell I use fbreader
00:50.37GAN800I've had lots of dreams about Maemo, so don't worry. ;)
00:50.58Tadthebuilderim a little worried that I might be turning into a nerd...
00:51.00GeneralAntillesI had one just the other night, in fact.
00:51.03GeneralAntillesHaha
00:51.06GeneralAntillesIRC? Check.
00:51.16GeneralAntillesUser of a niche Linux product? Check.
00:51.25GeneralAntillesDreaming about said product? Check.
00:51.36GeneralAntillesSounds a little late for worry to me. :P
00:51.42Tadthebuildersee the last one is the
00:51.42Tadthebuilderclincher
00:51.47Tadthebuilderif that one had not happened, i think id be okay
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00:55.11Tadthebuildergah
00:55.13TadthebuilderI did it again
00:55.21TadthebuilderINES
00:55.24TadthebuilderHATES ME!
00:55.37GeneralAntillesDon't worry. It's personal.
00:56.15Tadthebuilderwell
00:56.19Tadthebuilderi just hit the escape button
00:56.22Tadthebuilderon accident all the time
00:56.30Tadthebuildercause its so close to the down dpad on
00:56.33Tadthebuilderthe n800
00:56.56GeneralAntillesTadthebuilder, get a Wiimote.
00:57.10TadthebuilderI have one
00:57.14TadthebuilderI just dont carry it around ever where
00:57.16TadthebuilderIm a small guy
00:57.24Tadthebuilderthe wii mote
00:57.27Tadthebuilderdoes not fit in my pocket
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01:24.12lcukwho knows the maemo.org url to retrieve a user avatar
01:24.17lcukbased on name
01:24.52lcukhttp://maemo.org/avatar/lcuk ? or something X-Fade is this something for you#
01:25.31lcukGeneralAntilles, you any idea/
01:28.05GeneralAntillesHrm, lost a bunch of karma
01:28.15GeneralAntilleslcuk, and, I dunno.
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02:12.47Tadthebuildergrr
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02:49.28zerojayAnyone here got wiicontrol working on the N900?
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03:13.23Jakob1Hi, I am new to irc, using pidgin atm. Do you reccomend another lightweight client?
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04:29.06johnxmornin' all
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04:43.22RST38hmorning johnx
04:43.34johnxallo
04:43.46johnxthat public transit strike should be loads of fun, no?
04:44.26RST38hif it is not over by 8th
04:44.44johnxwell, I arrive on the 7th...
04:44.50johnxor wait
04:44.54johnxI do get there on the 8th
04:44.58johnxah. home free :)
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05:27.14studen2can anyone help me finding the driver for Nokia CA-50 cable?
05:27.46luke-jrI doubt cables need drivers.
05:28.09studen2yes they do
05:28.19luke-jrno, I'm pretty sure they don't ;)
05:28.30studen2you're not sure about a thing then
05:28.53RST38hCA-50 is a generic USB cable
05:28.54luke-jralmost sure.
05:29.00RST38hYou do not need driver.
05:29.05luke-jrthere, someone who knows the specifics to your cable :)
05:29.14studen2cause once you plug this one into the usb port a dialog pops up requesting a driver then an unknown device lays there unidentified into the device manager lsit
05:29.49RST38hThat would be the driver for your phone not for the cable.
05:29.58RST38hWhat kind of phone do you have? What model?
05:30.03studen2the phone was never connected
05:30.13studen2how would the pc knows that there is a phone?
05:30.48studen2this ca-50 supports many phones
05:30.54RST38hSorry, you are not making sense. You are connecting bare USB cable to your PC and expect it to "work" with some driver?
05:31.01studen2but the included cd i bought with it is not installing anything
05:31.02ShadowJKsome of those cables are actually usb-serial adapters
05:31.11RST38hSome are.
05:31.32MaceN8x0what is the name given to elements that naturally form molecules
05:31.36MaceN8x0like oxygen
05:31.47RST38hHe probably means this one: http://www.cs-tele.com/mobile-phone-data-cable/usb.htm
05:31.52RST38hMacer: Atoms?
05:31.57MaceN8x0which usually consists of 2 atoms bonded by an electron
05:32.07RST38hAh...Gases? =)
05:32.12MaceN8x0lol.. there is a special name for them
05:32.15MaceN8x0no
05:32.24RST38hA moment, this requires some creative googling
05:32.36studen2Driver for Nokia DKE-2, DKU-2, CA-42, CA-53, CA-70, CA-101
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05:32.46studen2This driver is compatible with the following Nokia data cables:
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05:32.55studen2Nokia Charging Connectivity Cable CA-70
05:32.55RST38hdiatomic elements
05:33.01studen2Nokia Charging Connectivity Cable CA-101
05:33.01RST38hHere you go
05:33.07studen2Nokia Connectivity Adapter Cable CA-42
05:33.09MaceN8x0i mean for elements like oxygen that are usually not really molecules but not really atoms and form in a binary structure
05:33.14studen2this is from Nokia website
05:33.25studen2apparently there is a driver for cables
05:33.26MaceN8x0is it diatomic?
05:33.30RST38hyea, google says so
05:33.32studen2the one i'm looking for is CA-50
05:33.42studen2Nokia Connectivity Adapter Cable CA-50
05:34.26ShadowJKis it a genuine original nokia?
05:37.31ShadowJKit's like it doesn't even exist...
05:40.20studen2no not genuine that is why i'm searching indeed
05:40.37studen2it's some french crap cable i bought to backup my 1208 contacts
05:40.48studen2it was better if i did that manually
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05:41.46ShadowJKyou wont find driver from nokia then :/
05:42.24studen2don't wanna find it on Nokia
05:42.36studen2i just wanna find it wherever it might be :)
05:42.47RST38hgo back to that cd
05:42.55RST38hit is there isn't it?
05:43.22ShadowJKit's most likely a pl2023 with some random usb id to add headache
05:44.44studen2no it's not there unfortunately
05:44.52studen2what is pl2033??
05:45.11ShadowJKa chip
05:45.33MaceN8x0RST38h, thanks
05:45.54ShadowJKso there are no .inf files on the entire cd?
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05:48.02ShadowJKisn't convinced 1208 would talk anything sensible through that port anyway
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05:50.45luke-jrShadowJK: I suspect he meant he doesn't have a CD
05:52.21ShadowJKdoesn't know if windows comes with drivers for prolific, and I don't know how to tell windows to try a specific driver
05:52.31ShadowJKso I'm not of much help here :)
05:58.44Shapeshifterhttp://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_api_documentation/ all links to "Hildon APIs" are broken
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05:59.51Shapeshifteractually, all the links are broken
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06:04.32StskeepsShapeshifter: it usually means a SDK is coming
06:06.40Shapeshifteroh
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06:25.54tigertJaffa: used that greasemonkey script to make facebook vcards for myself
06:26.09tigertJaffa: now I'd need a piece of python to automerge contacts based on name :)
06:27.14tigertJaffa: any luck with the photos not updating issue?
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06:28.58ShapeshifterIsn't there a widget for simple text input in hildon?
06:29.10tigertShapeshifter: text entry?
06:29.23Shapeshifteryes
06:30.54tigertGtkEntry?
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06:31.11tigertno wait
06:31.34tigerttheres HildonEntry
06:31.46Shapeshiftertigert: well, GtkEntry does what I want, but I want to have a hildon popup (from the button) similar to all the other hildon popups (file chooser etc)
06:32.03Shapeshiftertigert: where? http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.1/libhildon-2.0.4/ not here...
06:32.32Shapeshifterwell, but ideally I would like to make my own pop up
06:32.33tigerthttp://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide < "Hildon 2.2 Widget Ui Specification"
06:32.40tigertor is this for N810?
06:33.02tigertI think HildonEntry is for maemo5
06:33.36Shapeshiftertigert: ahh, thanks. the maemo5 api is down that's why I was looking at this one.
06:33.43Shapeshifterbut that page is quite useful.
06:33.44tigertso what exactly do you want to do? button and popup doesnt sound like "text entry" anymore :)
06:33.50tigertthat page contains quite lots stuff
06:34.03tigertthe widget spec is good reading I think
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06:34.17tigertalso styleguide and other stuff
06:34.25tigertplus the maemo HIG
06:35.31tigerthttp://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Graphical_UI_Tutorial/Controls#Hildon_Text_Entry
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06:35.32Shapeshiftertigert: well, I need a popup with a text field and three drop-down lists. I'll read that guide, I just started ;)
06:35.33tigertthis has stuff too about text entry
06:35.40tigertaaa
06:35.46tigertwait
06:35.51tigertthats hildon touch selector thingy
06:36.17tigerthttp://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Graphical_UI_Tutorial/Data_selection
06:36.21tigertthis contains something like that
06:36.45Shapeshiftertigert: thanks ^^
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06:37.14tigertHildonPickerButton is something to look for too
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06:38.20Shapeshifterbut is it possible to combine these widgets into one "popup".
06:38.38tigertthe HildonPickerButton is this kind of convenience thingy I think
06:39.06Shapeshifterokay
06:39.07tigertsee section "15 Pickers" from the widget spec
06:39.19tigertis not a coder so sorry if the information is not that precise :)
06:39.48tigert"Examples for using this widget exist in the libhildon1-doc / libhildon1-examples
06:39.48tigertpackages.
06:39.50tigert"
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06:41.09tigerthttp://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Application_Development/Data_selection#Picker_dialog_and_picker_buttons
06:42.03Shapeshifterthanks
06:42.09Macerwow the g1 is shitty on cpu power
06:42.13tigertI guess you can add more columns to match your need
06:42.24Macerlike ssh file xfer go 20K/s
06:42.33tigertMacer: the tmobile android thingy?
06:42.38Maceryeah
06:42.59tigerta friend complained also that it was pretty slow in general
06:43.07Macerthat too
06:43.18Macerbut sftp is just obscene
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06:43.36Macertetheing to it gives me 70-100
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06:45.28Shapeshifterit seems to me like they don't want people to make dialogs which combine different widgets http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Human_Interface_Guidelines/Controls it seems like rather wizard like successions of popups are preferred where the user enters one thing and then presses next etc.
06:45.33Shapeshiftercould this be true?
06:45.35Shapeshifteror am I missing something
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06:46.50tigertwhat is your usecase?
06:46.58tigertwhat kind of stuff do you need to input?
06:47.18tigertthe wizard thingy is one way to do stuff if there is a lot of data
06:47.30tigertso that you can avoid having a long dialog that scrolls
06:49.02Shapeshifterwe can control our office (at the uni) using a web interface, I'm writing a client for it. we can open the door, switch lights etc. all over the web, and we can also send messages to a LED bar. I want a popup where one can enter a simple sentence, choose the scroll direction for appearing and leaving the ledbar (left/right) and the color (a set of 8 color-combinations is possible). the text should be a text entry field, the other three ...
06:49.02Shapeshifter... should be drop-down like pickers.
06:49.22tigerthmm
06:49.26Shapeshifterso it's just one text entry and three very short drop-down menus. although there are no drop down menus on such a small device, which is smart... so I guess a wizard is okay.
06:49.43tigertyou could do it with text entry and three picker buttons
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06:50.02tigertbasically the dropdown menu got replaced with picker button
06:50.03Shapeshifterenter text, next. pick entry scrolling direction, next. pick leaving scrolling direction, nect. pick color-combination, done.
06:50.11tigertnah
06:50.13tigertthats cumbersome
06:50.23Shapeshifteryeah I thinks so as well
06:50.24tigertdo it so that it remembers its last set values next time,
06:50.26tigertand
06:52.50tigert<PROTECTED>
06:52.51tigert.-----------------------------.
06:52.51tigert| [ enter text...     ]       |
06:52.51tigert| ( Entry: from left  )       |
06:52.52tigert| ( Exit: to right    )       |
06:52.54tigert| ( Color: xxx        ) [send]|
06:52.56tigert<PROTECTED>
06:53.00tigertthose ( ) are buttons
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06:53.12tigertnow you could do it so that the entry and exit buttons are those two-line ones,
06:53.20tigertthat, when you press, just toggle the value
06:53.30Shapeshifterbut if I do a picker button, it will work just the same... even more tapping required: "send message" -> text entry -> picker-button-for-entry-scrolling -> selection of scrolling style -> Done -> picker-button-for-leaving-scrolling -> selection of scrolling style -> done -> picker-button-for-color -> selection of color -> done -> send
06:53.44tigertpicker is just needed for color
06:53.50tigertno wait
06:53.58tigertor are those entry and exit ones multi-choice too?
06:54.02tigertleft, right, top, bottom?
06:54.15Shapeshifterthat's more taps than just a wizard, where tapping "next" will launch the next picker right away instead of going back to the dialog. all three choices are text choices, no actual color-picker
06:54.23Shapeshifterentry/exit area just left/right
06:54.25tigertbasically the picker button is just like dropdown
06:54.30tigertsame number of taps
06:54.34tigertbut its just larger
06:55.10tigertbecause a single item picker doesnt have "OK"-button
06:55.10tigertit just closes after you select the item you need
06:55.13tigertand if you make it remember the state, you very likely just type a new message
06:55.14Shapeshiftertigert: not really, as picker button also supports multiple choice and as such you need a "done" button. Oh there is "single item picker"? didn't see that
06:55.24tigertyeah, a single item picker doesnt have ok
06:55.43Shapeshifterallright, than thats ideal. now I just need to find out how to combine the widgets
06:55.51tigertat least I have seen such ones
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06:56.03tigertdo you have a device too or just the sdk?
06:57.23tigertShapeshifter: I think the single-selection one doesnt have a done-button
06:57.26tigertmultiselection does
06:57.42Shapeshiftertigert: sdk only.
07:00.01Shapeshifterfound it, HILDON_TOUCH_SELECTOR_SELECTION_MODE_SINGLE
07:00.09Shapeshiftertigert: thanks for your help
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07:00.27tigertyeah
07:00.31tigertok :)
07:00.34tigerthopefully that does it
07:00.54tigertbecause the single selection thingy is just to replace a dropdown menu with a more finger-friendly version
07:00.59tigertsame interaction but different looks
07:01.12tigertthere is also the gtk dropdown widget available as deprecated legacy
07:01.19tigertbut its not really fun to use
07:01.22tigertso use the selector
07:01.39Shapeshiftersure
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07:48.46gnutonHi
07:51.54Jaffatigert: I couldn't reproduce, but I've switched in my dev version to being able to update them via Python, which should improve the robustness
07:52.04Jaffatigert: Yeah, I'd love automerging on matching names.
07:52.29JaffaMaybe, one day, Hermes could do it.
07:52.31JaffaMorning, all
07:54.25fralsmorning
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08:02.49tigertyeah
08:02.54tigertand morning
08:03.19X-Fademorning
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08:08.55tigertmoo
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08:10.52tigerto_O
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08:19.51Macerhah!
08:20.09Stskeepsmm?
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08:26.16samadhello
08:27.38RST38hehlo samad
08:28.20samadI am implementing the camera for nokia n900  to take picture and i have used  * is shown in the correct widget */
08:28.20samadgst_x_overlay_set_xwindow_id(GST_X_OVERLAY(data),
08:28.20samad<PROTECTED>
08:28.52samadbut there is an error "undefined symbol: gst_x_overlay_get_type
08:28.52samad<PROTECTED>
08:29.25samadcan anybody help me regarding this error how can i solved ?
08:32.06Stskeepshmm, i see a updated 5.0 timestamp in /pool/maemo/maemo5.0/
08:33.07Stskeepserr
08:33.10Stskeeps<PROTECTED>
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08:34.18fralsinitscripts and statusmenu? ;)
08:35.06Stskeepsstatusmenu is out
08:35.56Stskeepsinteresting, OSS crash reporter
08:36.20ShapeshifterI must say the maemo docs are superb
08:36.34Stskeepsthey used to be a bit crap
08:36.39Stskeepsbut they're heaps better now
08:37.06Shapeshifterwell, at least the UI bit which I'm reading now. loads of code samples, mostly well structured
08:37.49RST38hWhat is statusmenu?
08:38.17StskeepsRST38h: the thingie you tap on to show battery level etc
08:38.42RST38hit got updated? hmmm
08:39.05Stskeepsno, it got oss'ed
08:40.18RST38hCoooool
08:40.43Stskeepsas in, the bare area
08:41.05Stskeepsmicrob-eal, microb-engine..
08:41.22Stskeepsqt in sdk, hm
08:42.29RST38hAre we finally getting a real 5.0 SDK today?
08:43.00Stskeepslooks like it
08:43.16Stskeepsi'm already hoarding sources
08:43.17jjodamn you're fast
08:43.28RST38hOSS Hoarder
08:43.35RST38hPrint this on your badge
08:43.49Stskeepsjjo: it was kinda obvious from the 6am edits and API documentation disappearing yesterday
08:44.23fralsAPI documentation relink to /final/* ;)
08:44.26Stskeepsnow where on earth is the nokia-binaries token system again..
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08:47.38RST38hmoos for wazd
08:47.51Shapeshiftermhh... : 180: warning: assignment from incompatible pointer type. In 180 I have this: window = hildon_stackable_window_new (); and window has been declared as: HildonWindow *window;
08:48.41RST38hShapeshifter: Welcome to GTK "type" system
08:48.59ShapeshifterRST38h: what does it want?
08:49.10RST38hsomething like GTK_HILDONWINDOW(hildon_*()) will do
08:49.18Stskeepshmm, that's a lot of nokia-binaries
08:49.38jjoand that's not all
08:50.05X-FadeStskeeps: You don't say ;)
08:50.17Stskeepsshame they're compiled for armv7 :/
08:50.55RST38hcackles evilly at Sts
08:51.09Stskeepser. is this the whole system?
08:51.23GeneralAntillesnotices more Nokia @maemo.org addresses popping up. . . .
08:51.43RST38hwhom have we got?
08:52.04GeneralAntillesfremantle-feedback at maemo.org
08:52.17GeneralAntillesand the integration address which I was told would be changed, hasn't been.
08:52.38StskeepsGeneralAntilles: on the other hand, if they're moving into more open, they're as equal part as the rest of the community..
08:53.08GeneralAntillesStskeeps, well, my point was and is that official Nokia addresses should be on official Nokia domains.
08:53.28GeneralAntillesI don't really have an issue with them using http://maemo.org addresses, but @nokia or @maemo.nokia would make much more sense.
08:53.46Stskeepsgod, i'm only 69% through package list of nokia-binaries O_o
08:54.18X-FadeStskeeps: Packages file increased 4x between b2 and now ;)
08:54.26StskeepsX-Fade: no shit.. :P
08:54.40X-FadeStskeeps: Indexing it for packages interface now.
08:54.43Stskeepswell, that should help community variants a bit.
08:55.11GeneralAntilleswonders if people will quiet down about ogg.
08:55.34StskeepsGeneralAntilles: ever? doubt it
08:55.44kirmaregarding http://wiki.maemo.org/MMS_implementation: suspension of GPRS connections is GSM level issue, if I've understood correctly. more primitive radio/protocol implementations can't operate multiple connections simultaneously, more recent ones can.
08:56.02GeneralAntillesStskeeps, well, easy support is available right from Extras before the device is even out. ;)
08:56.04fralskirma: cool
08:56.11StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i have seen people say this is not enough.
08:56.12fralsdoes NOT have highlight on MMS, promise!
08:56.19Stskeepsat which point i facepalmed.
08:56.33JaffaStskeeps: At which point there's no point talking to them.
08:56.40StskeepsJaffa: i have that feeling with many things
08:56.41JaffaAs they're a codec nutjob/zealot.
08:56.48JaffaStskeeps: Hence my reading less of tmo ;-)
08:57.03fralskirma: do you mind updating the wikipage and adding it in there? :)
08:57.17RST38hfrals: You are the guy who really wants his MMSes right?
08:57.26frals:rolleyes: maybe? ;)
08:57.34kirmafrals: I'm not a radio engineer though, but I know this applies at least to some simultaneous connection issues on 3GPP stuff.
08:57.46RST38hfrals: I have got a suggestion for you
08:58.03fralskirma: okey
08:58.04kirmafrals: well, I probably should get maemo account first, not to mention this is not absolute knowledge :)
08:58.23fralsRST38h: shoot!
08:58.34RST38hfrals: You can get 50% of the MMS functionality without modifying the kernel or doing anything at the OS level
08:58.44fralskirma: hehe, just add it saying its not certain or whatever, and we can pray it works that way ;)
08:58.56kirma;)
08:59.05RST38hfrals: Simply implement an image sharing plugin that wraps photo into MMS bullshit and sends it to a web-based MMSC
08:59.19RST38hfrals: One of those "send sms/mms online" services
09:00.03RST38hfrals: This way you can solve the problem entirely by third party development, and still be able to send MMSes (but not receive)
09:00.38fralsRST38h: cool, ill take a look at that :) thanks
09:01.22fralsthe receive part *should* be fine, as most operators sends you an URL to get it from afaik, in my experience anyway, if your phone is unable to get it as an mms
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09:01.47RST38hfrals: A bit wrong
09:01.59RST38hfrals: The ALWAYS send you an URL
09:02.37RST38hfrals: But this URL usually points to their internal MMSC that is supposed to be accessed through a separate APN, at higher price than normal internet
09:02.39fralsyeah, but i assume you get a different url instead of the mmsc:// one if your handset doesnt reply correctly to the notification or says it cant get it?
09:02.49RST38hI do not think so
09:03.05RST38hIt just continues sitting at the provider's MMSC until you retrieve it
09:03.18kirmafrals: got the idea they have per-IMEI database on the operator... but how the reception capability is established? I think *sending* an MMS message marks the phone as capable to receive them on many operators.
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09:04.15samadI am implementing the camera for nokia n900  to take picture and i have used  * is shown in the correct widget */
09:04.16samad<samad>  gst_x_overlay_set_xwindow_id(GST_X_OVERLAY(data),
09:04.16samad<samad>          GDK_WINDOW_XWINDOW(widget->window));
09:04.16samad<samad> but there is an error "undefined symbol: gst_x_overlay_get_type
09:04.16samad<samad>  "
09:04.17samad<samad> can anybody help me regarding this error how can i solved ?
09:06.17X-Fadesamad: Google to find out which package has that symbol and then make sure you have that installed?
09:07.11samadi have all pakage installed
09:07.23samadnot compilation errot
09:07.32samad*eror
09:07.47samadbut run time error
09:07.58keesjsamad: using pkg-config for the gst stuff?
09:11.08RST38hweird
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09:14.50samadkeesj , i have used : gconf-2.0 hildon-1 hildon-fm-2 gtk+-2.0 gtkmm-2.4 libosso gdk-2.0 gnome-vfs-2.0 libhildondesktop-1 hildonmm hildon-fmmm gstreamer-0.10
09:14.50*** join/#maemo Stskeepz (n=chobits@84.238.10.195)
09:14.50samadand libebook-1.2 alarm bluez libgwobex osso-gpsd  osso-addressbook-1.0 gpsbt glib-2.0
09:14.50Stskeepzbloody netsplits
09:14.51*** join/#maemo sulx (n=sulx@85.23.15.158)
09:14.51fralsindeed
09:14.51Stskeepzfrals: saw my message from before the split about cellmo-headers?
09:14.51*** part/#maemo freemantler (i=93533bf0@gateway/web/freenode/x-xxczcqgjdftbyhvr)
09:14.51fralsnegative
09:14.51*** join/#maemo freemantler (i=93533bf0@gateway/web/freenode/x-xxczcqgjdftbyhvr)
09:14.51*** join/#maemo wazd (n=user@83.149.10.170)
09:14.51samadkeesj, i have used LIBRARIES=gconf-2.0 hildon-1 hildon-fm-2 gtk+-2.0 gtkmm-2.4 libosso gdk-2.0 gnome-vfs-2.0 libhildondesktop-1 hildonmm hildon-fmmm gstreamer-0.10
09:14.51samadEXTRA_LIBRARIES=libebook-1.2 alarm bluez libgwobex osso-gpsd  osso-addressbook-1.0 gpsbt glib-2.0
09:14.51fralsso please repeat Stskeepz :)
09:14.51Stskeepzfrals: you'll want to grab maemo 5.0 sdk, look at nokia-binaries, and cellmo-icpr82-headers
09:14.51RST38hwazd: HELO?
09:14.51fralscool, ill do that
09:14.51wazdRST38h: heya
09:14.51RST38hwazd: News.
09:14.52*** join/#maemo rdorsch (n=rd@p5B203566.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
09:14.52frals*starts virtualbox*
09:14.52wazd'lo all)
09:14.52RST38hwazd: TI73 works.
09:14.52Stskeepzwazd: how long time are you without proper net btw?
09:15.03RST38hwazd: So, need to enable BOTH TI73 and TI83+SE on the menu and a faceplate for TI73
09:15.03RST38his sorry for keeping wazd busy =(
09:15.14wazdStskeepz: tomorrow I'll be online)
09:15.52RST38hwazd: TI73 kbd looks like this: http://www.albion.edu/mathcs/MBollman/TI73Ex.gif
09:15.53fralskirma: yeah, im not sure either, id think they always send out the mms notification where the handset should answer its capabilities and then decides what to do - but im not sure.. im probably gonna mail my carrier and ask :p
09:16.15wazdRST38h: np, it's better than watching stupid russian soap operas)
09:17.22*** join/#maemo danielwilms (n=dwilms@147.243.155.42)
09:17.26RST38hwazd: Get Fringe from Torrent ;)
09:17.48RST38hAlthough it is kinda boring/formulaic too
09:17.53wazdRST38h: I have NO connection!(
09:18.27wazdRST38h: or should I dl it  thru eddge?)
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09:20.52RST38hwazd: That woulsd be twice cmore expensive than going to a moview theater, longer too =)
09:21.35RST38hMinistry of Defence's 'How To Stop Leaks' Document is Leaked
09:21.51Stskeepshah
09:22.17*** join/#maemo sarower (n=sarower@ns2.bjitgroup.com)
09:22.28sarowerGood morning all
09:22.29RST38his surprised UK still has ministry of defence 8)
09:22.53StskeepsRST38h: our defense just makes up fake documents and leaks them to the public
09:23.00Stskeepsusing google translate, of all things.
09:23.40sarowerI want to make a package where it will guide user during installation and will take user input ( Setting related parameter) for the application
09:23.57sarowerAny body any idea or link!
09:24.13sarowerI know that i have to use GtkAssistant........
09:24.20sarowerBut do not know how!
09:24.36sarowerany help would be appreciated!
09:25.24fralsoh, the api links to 5.0-final is working now (might be old news) :)
09:25.33fralsor well.. some of them anyway :P
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09:26.41Stskeepsi'm waiting for whatever statement this SDK comes with
09:29.18freemantler"to get your nokia-binaries token, please be sure to have your birth certificate and that of your son at hand, then call 555..."
09:29.36RST38hof course you are supposed to call 666
09:29.39wazdRST38h: i think  it would be as expensive as goin to the movie theater in fricking Tokyo :D
09:29.52RST38hand your son has to be at hand clothed for the sacrifice
09:30.46fralshttp://repository.maemo.org/stable/5.0/ hmm
09:31.49Stskeepsyeah
09:31.51Stskeepslook at the lists
09:32.13RST38hwazd: will be about r600
09:32.44wazdhas finished most of Mer themee
09:32.47Stskeepswoo
09:32.57freemantlerok, first screenshot of the new sdk wins.
09:33.01RST38hwazd: Pricy, but not total murder like it would be in EU
09:33.22fralsbtw how do i browse the nokia-binaries on the site using my token?
09:33.35Stskeepsfrals: i just edited my fremantle SDK and went into /var/lib/apt
09:33.54fralsah right :)
09:33.55Stskeepsfreemantler: haven't seen screenshots yet but i wonder..
09:34.48jjowonder if I should try to win...
09:35.13Stskeepsif you actually went all in and have the SDK act somewhat like a real system, i'll be surprised
09:35.51freemantlerwell, the race already started, quite a few seconds ago.
09:36.44sarowerNo help?
09:37.32sarowerI want to make a package where it will guide user during installation and will take user input ( Setting related parameter) for the application. Any body any idea or link! I know that i have to use GtkAssistant.......But do not know how! any help would be appreciated!
09:38.04saroweror i can use "HildonWizardDialog".
09:38.17jjofreemantler: remember to installa the nokia-apps package, you'll get prettier screenshots with it installed
09:44.13sarowerany body?
09:44.43sarowerI know there are some gys who know but not answering me!
09:46.31RST38hthat is because you have spent all your support credits
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09:50.06sarowermeans?
09:50.41sarowervab nao na?
09:51.03MyrttiRST38h: +1
09:51.40freemantlernot mean user input during package instalation is discouraged
09:53.16X-Fadesarower: You should do that on first run.
09:53.20X-Fadesarower: Not on installation
09:54.05sarowerX-Fade: Yah i can do that but who will run it first?
09:54.44X-Fadesarower: ?
09:54.54MyrttiE_MAEKNOSENSE
09:55.10RST38hIs that a Symbian error code?
09:55.27freemantlera government representative will run it first.
09:55.45sarowerX-Fade: Suppose i have done installation but should i do that when user will run the application first time?
09:56.11X-Fadesarower: Yes? That should not be too hard?
09:56.34sarowerX-Fade: But is not it possible during installation?
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09:56.51wazdRST38h: i think you will be happy with new theme :)
09:56.57X-Fadesarower: You should not bother users during installation.
09:57.04RST38hsalivates
09:57.23RST38hwazd: I can try running the thememaker here, if you want me to
09:57.30Stskeepswazd, remember a good background too
09:57.51sarowerX-Fade: Ok, but if i want that the wizard will be run automatically when user finish installation...
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09:58.04sarowerIs it possible?
09:58.06wazdThe only thing I haven't changed are desktop widgets
09:58.21wazdStskeeps: wide or 800x480?
09:58.44sarowerX-Fade: I do not want to wait for the user to open the application / wizard!
09:58.55sarowerX-Fade: You got me?
09:59.14Stskeepspanoramic i guess
09:59.17X-Fadesarower: It is irrelevant what you want. You should not do that during installation.
09:59.20rangesarower: I do not want the developer to get on my nerves during installation.
09:59.22fralsforcing users to do something is mean :(
09:59.44X-Fadesarower: You should install with sane defaults.
09:59.59X-Fadesarower: And then ask questions on first run, with a wizard if you like.
10:00.28sarowerX-Fade: Ok but after finishing the installation i want that the application will be run automatically. How it could be?
10:01.14X-Fadesarower: Call it in your post install script?
10:01.37sarowerpostinst?
10:02.37sarowerX-Fade: postinst?
10:06.39wazdRST38h: I'll quickly remake applets and send you .png
10:07.18RST38hwazd: acknowledged
10:07.57wazdRST38h: I'll use ubershiny buttons for pinkk theme :P
10:08.38RST38hwazd: 4x800x480 pink hello kitty background? =)
10:09.01wazdRST38h: sure)
10:12.23Myrttiew
10:14.02GAN800Too much stuff in nokia-binaries. :(
10:14.27GAN800What the hell is tablet-browser doing there?
10:15.07RST38hit browses?
10:15.21RST38hhas always been closed-sourced afaik
10:15.39GAN800was under the impression it would be open in Fremantle.
10:15.43rangeI thought the UI only?
10:16.23GAN800Engine is open since it's Gecko
10:16.40GAN800but the UI was supposed to be open in Fremantle.
10:17.08X-FadeGAN800: Do you want to beautify http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation a bit?
10:18.38fralshmm, was multi desktops in the last sdk?
10:18.59StskeepsGAN800: together with the gitorious announcement we dont have to wait for next sdk release
10:19.50GAN800X-Fade, maybe later.
10:19.51GAN800We need to grab some stuff from the default mediawiki CSS.
10:19.52GAN800Those edit buttons look silly header sized.
10:19.52tekojoStskeeps I just need to convince people to move over to gitorious now :-)
10:20.25GAN800Poor neglected Garage.
10:20.37X-Fadetekojo: Start with moving HAM as it is already at gitorious ;)
10:21.25jjoGAN800: too much stuff in the repository or the meta package?
10:22.10GAN800jjo, too much stuff that should be in free.
10:22.50jjook, agreed
10:23.11jjothe meta package pulls in some free stuff also
10:23.45GAN800really wants to know what's up with MicroB.
10:23.57jjobut the repository is bigger than ever before now that it contains a bunch of applications as well
10:24.21GAN800I'm not going to be happy if it turns out we can't fix Nokia's idiotic UI decisions.
10:24.30*** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@217.174.199.201)
10:24.31wazdRussian social ads are absolutely ridiculous
10:25.01wazdJust saw ad bout how bad to drink alcohol
10:25.34wazdAAnd as alcohol they showed fucking wine!
10:25.57wazdWhy not milk?
10:26.21RST38hbecause kefir has got lower alcohol content? =)
10:27.07jumpulait has?
10:27.16jumpulastops drinking milk
10:27.52Macertouchbook is definately on its way
10:28.18Maceri should get it some time this week. it left california and is in route to chicago
10:28.51RST38hwazd: Speaking of social ads, check out this one: http://fms.komkon.org/graphics/Kitties.jpg
10:29.02RST38hSuicide promotion!
10:29.12X-FadeHmm is libjingle gone to closed now?
10:29.36Macerhaha
10:29.39Macerid sure hope not
10:31.00Macerthat would like totally go against the principle if jingle :)
10:31.13Maceri wonder if i can stick a webcam on the netbook
10:31.47Maceri've never used a webcam in linux unlessyou count that crap gizmo
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10:35.10GeneralAntillesdoesn't get tip calculators.
10:35.35*** join/#maemo lizardo (n=lizardo@189.2.128.130)
10:44.29JaffaWow, shiny apps in the SDK,.
10:44.57*** join/#maemo Dantonic (n=david@c-24-7-146-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
10:45.50GeneralAntillesAlright, how do I nuke my beta install so I can install this?
10:46.53zerojay?
10:47.01RST38hGeneral: run maemo-sdk
10:47.05RST38hand select an option
10:48.12GeneralAntillesDon't have one of those.
10:48.13GeneralAntillesgstreamer packages are colliding trying to do a dist-upgrade on the beta2.
10:48.40fralshmm.. libdrm-dev_2.3.1-3
10:49.18RST38hany references to ofono? =)
10:49.32GeneralAntillesToo early for oFono.
10:49.51jjoupgrade doesn't work flawlessly because of the gstreamer packages
10:49.52RST38hQuim said it is not going to be used in fremantle, rather fremantle parts will be used in ofoto
10:49.53GeneralAntillesIsn't libdrm a PowerVR thing?
10:50.02RST38hwhy?
10:50.04jjothat's why it's recommended to reinstall if possible
10:50.52fralsyeah, gstreamer didnt like me upgrading at all
10:50.52*** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@83.150.122.98)
10:50.52X-Fadefrals: direct rendering manager
10:50.58fralsright, makes sense
10:50.59X-Fadefrals: not drm as in evil ;)
10:51.04frals:D
10:51.05RST38hehehe
10:51.14X-Fadefrals: http://maemo.org/packages/view/libdrm-dev/
10:51.36JaffaThe upgrade for each SDK release really needs to be improved
10:51.39GeneralAntilleshttp://maemo.org needs a server upgrade again. <_<
10:51.58Jaffa"Reinstall". But what about maintaining build environments for earlier Maemo versions etc.
10:51.59X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Good, that is already planned :)
10:53.18jjoJaffa: reinstall the sdk
10:53.29jjoold targets can stay
10:53.33fralsmaemo.org/packages sure is taking its time now :D
10:54.13jjoI agree, the upgrade should work, but we rely on packages made by other people
10:56.34Jaffajjo: The official line is to reinstall Scratchbox. Previous instructions (haven't looked at these ones) has been light on re-installing the SDK, but maintaining Scratchbox (big assumptions that you know - and care deeply - about Scratchbox's capabilities ;-))
10:56.47Jaffajjo: Really? I thought Maemo Devices rebuilt everything?
10:56.55jjowell, there are some new sb packages
10:57.10jjobut apt will upgrade them without losing data
10:57.10suihkulokkilibgnome-menu-dev appears to be missing from hildon-desktop build-deps
10:57.45Jaffajjo: Apt in the host OS?
10:57.57jjoyes
10:58.07*** join/#maemo Anunakin (n=fazzi@187-25-47-224.3g.claro.net.br)
10:58.51jjoant the sb installer has an upgrade option also, but it works fine only with .deb packages
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10:59.44jjoJaffa: what I ment about relyin on packages by other people is that the sdk team takes packages form the product side
11:00.27jjoand the product is not always upgradeable nor do they aim to be, at least before the release
11:00.49Corsachmmh, the sdk is still i386 only?
11:01.11jjokinda
11:01.28jjowe haven't got 64-bit packages for scratchbox
11:01.55jjobut like previously, the 32-bit packages will install and afaik work on 64-bit machines
11:02.06jjothe installer has an option for that also ;)
11:03.03Jaffajjo: Is there a doc, linked to from somewhere (possibly hosted on the wiki) that says the best way of running Maemo 5 and Maemo 4 SDKs side-by-side? Install fremantle SDK using newest installer, then install rootstraps for earlier OS?
11:04.45GeneralAntillesOops, SDK refers to "maemo"
11:04.47*** join/#maemo Dantonic (n=david@c-24-7-146-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
11:04.53jjoI can't think of a document for that, but I believe that after installing fremantle the latest diablo sdk installer can be used to get the diablo
11:06.32jjoseems it can't
11:06.45jjonot without installing the toolchains needed by diablo
11:07.00jjoupgrading from diablo is easier that way
11:08.23Jaffajjo: So use Diablo installer, and then the Fremantle one on top?
11:09.22jjoI haven't tried that either but it should work if you use the upgrade option of the fremantle sb installer
11:09.37jjoI'll see if we can provide some documentation for that
11:09.51*** join/#maemo ziyourenxiang (n=ziyouren@unaffiliated/ziyourenxiang)
11:10.00Jaffajjo: Thanks
11:10.01*** join/#maemo zap (n=zap@213.59.86.89)
11:11.36*** join/#maemo radic (n=radic@109.85.169.57)
11:11.43samadhi all
11:12.23samadcan anybody help me regarding the following issue
11:12.26samadi am implementing camera for Nokia N900 and used
11:12.26samadgst_x_overlay_set_xwindow_id(GST_X_OVERLAY(data),GDK_WINDOW_XWINDOW(widget->window));
11:12.26samadcompilation error 0
11:12.26samadbut when run the appication it shows
11:12.26samad<PROTECTED>
11:18.57*** join/#maemo shdb (n=shdb@217-162-129-64.dclient.hispeed.ch)
11:18.57absamad, link against libgstinterfaces-0.10
11:18.58GeneralAntillesWoo, we don't have tab on the keyboard so let's break it!
11:19.35samadab, i am not clear about "link against libgstinterfaces-0.10"
11:19.36absamad, which means you need to use gstreamer-interfaces-0.10 pkgconfig
11:21.20absamad, your application uses GstXOverlay class. The interface helpers for this class are defined in gstreamer-interfaces library.
11:21.26Corsacjjo: I'd very much appreciate not to break my host :p
11:21.52Corsacdoes the sdk use sb2 or sb1?
11:22.33samadab , i am checking
11:23.48tbfJaffa: what about using the virtual Maemo5 SDK?
11:24.31tbfJaffa: http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/
11:27.17samadab, i didn't find name gstreamer-interfaces-0.10
11:27.43samadso is it missing pkg?
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11:28.54FlyserHi, I just tried to install the maemo5 sdk (beta2), but it fails with: http://nopaste.org/p/a01tZpMkob
11:29.04FlyserAny idea how to fix that?
11:29.31Stskeepsget final SDK instead
11:29.32X-FadeFlyser: The final SDK has just been released. You might want to try that one.
11:29.41*** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at)
11:29.50jjoCorsac: why would you break your host?
11:29.56Flyserwill do that. thanks :-)
11:30.57Jaffatbf: What about using it? Does it have Maemo 4 SDK too?
11:31.03Corsacjjo: I usually don't like to install programs without using apt, especially not in root folder and especially not outside of FHS
11:31.09*** join/#maemo Flyser_ (n=flyser@unaffiliated/flyser)
11:31.19CorsacI'd be fine with an apt-get installed scratchbox, with a chroot in my home folder
11:31.31RST38hX-Fade: Is there a working URL to the latets documentation?
11:31.33Corsacor a sb install in .local
11:31.37RST38h(i.e. SDK reference)
11:31.40absamad, libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev or so
11:31.44tbfJaffa: no idea. but you could install the Maemo 4 SDK natively or within another VM
11:31.47Jaffafinds having a whole other environment a bit distasteful; and would rather the VM was exporting a display to my main desktop (or just running Eclipse or something fullscreen/lightweight WM) and using the host FS as much as possible.
11:31.51X-FadeRST38h: wiki.maemo.org/Documentation ?
11:31.52Corsacbut /scratchbox is not really fine :/
11:32.05RST38hX-Fade: seemed tocover beta2 just one hour ago
11:32.13X-FadeRST38h: Or http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/ ?
11:32.17Jaffastarted building a new VM which used the VM for the runtime environment, but data still stored on your main disk
11:32.18jjoCorsac: for the 64-bit machines the installer will download dep pacages using wget and install them using dpgk if dpkg is available
11:32.21wazdOk, .png is ready
11:32.36jjoCorsac: tar packages will only be used as last resort
11:32.49tbfJaffa: using a VM for the SDK also has the advantage that you don't always have to switch CPU target of your SDK permanently
11:32.53Jaffatbf: And two separate, isolated VMs won't help me test and deploy the same package on multiple SDKs easily
11:33.12Corsachmh
11:33.14Corsacgrep -c amd64 maemo-s*
11:33.14Corsacmaemo-scratchbox-install_5.0.sh:0
11:33.14Corsacmaemo-sdk-install_5.0.sh:0
11:33.14RST38hX-Fade: Aye aye sir
11:33.31RST38hwill have to wait until the final sdk is released for SB2 though
11:33.52samadab,  thanks a lot and hope i will get it from google search
11:33.54Corsacha ok, I missed the /etc/apt/sources.list.d stuff
11:35.03fralsis trying to figure out where to hook in to the SMS/Call parts
11:35.57CorsacW: Failed to fetch http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/maemo5-sdk/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz  404  Not Found
11:36.00CorsacOK!
11:36.04wazdRST38h: file is trying to leave my tablet)
11:36.21Jaffatbf: `sb-menu' isn't that bad. Got to switch between armel and x86 regularly when building & testing anyway
11:36.28Corsachttp://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/maemo5-sdk/main/ ><
11:36.51RST38hwazd: =)
11:36.54tbfJaffa: this switching usually drives me nuts.
11:36.55wazdRST38h: out
11:36.56gcobbtbf, Jaffa: in my experience the VM is much too slow -- at least for compiling about 80 packages (GPE, Opensync, Xsisusb for Chinook and Fremantle) each night
11:36.56RST38h<out for ~15 mins>
11:37.29tbfJaffa: but could be that i just have too many separate packages to rebuild ;-)
11:37.33jjoCorsac: apt will not works because the lack of 64-bit packages
11:38.03jjoCorsac: manually downloading and using dpkg with --force-architecture will
11:38.03gcobbI currently have Chinook and Fremantle Beta 2 SDK working in a single SB environment (on my 64-bit system) and I am sure we can make it work with the Final SDK as well
11:38.03tbfjjo: Corsac: just run dpkg with "--nodeps" switch or how it is called
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11:38.38tbfjjo: Corsac: according to some people the i386 sb package works just fine on amd64
11:39.08Corsacyeah well, until we properly support multiarch, no way I install i386 on my amd64 host
11:39.11tbfjjo: Corsac: some of the sb scripts even check for running on 64 bit and do special stuff
11:39.19Corsacthat's just awful
11:39.51tbfCorsac: http://danielkitta.org/howto/maemo-amd64
11:40.29tbfCorsac: just be pragmatic ;-)
11:41.05tbfCorsac: well, or repackage for amd64 and share :-D
11:41.07wazdIs final SDK out?
11:41.11Stskeepswazd: indeed
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11:41.33Corsactbf: do we have the .dsc?
11:41.37GAN800Can we please kill the floating midgard bar with fire?
11:41.41wazdStskeeps: cool, now I need to bend my hands in the right way)
11:41.46jjardonmaemo sdk 5 final version released!
11:41.56GAN800It's impossible to browse maemo.org logged in.
11:42.01Stskeepsjjardon: old news ;p
11:42.03Stskeepswazd: hehe
11:42.06wazdNoway?!
11:42.34tbfCorsac: it should be there. otherwise file a bug and let andre bug the right people :-D
11:42.41jjardonstrange, no mention to GTK+ in "Available runtimes" :/
11:43.08fralsrtcom-eventlogger.. MMS logging.. hmm
11:43.20tbfjjardon: probably 'cause the UI toolkit is called "Hildon"? ;-)
11:43.23Jaffagcobb: Thanks for the info
11:43.32Corsactbf: W: Failed to fetch http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/maemo5-sdk/main/source/Sources.gz  404  Not Found
11:43.35Corsac:)
11:43.55jjardontbf, well, no mention to hildon either
11:44.04wazdStskeeps: rst will spread theme .deb around, too expensive for me)
11:44.22Stskeepswazd: k
11:44.23tbfCorsac: sucks. bug report time :-D
11:45.52wazdStskeeps: i've replaced icons with standard ones cause there was a strange bug - they were not shown
11:46.11tbfCorsac: hmm! http://scratchbox.org/cgi-bin/darcsweb.cgi?r=1.0/scratchbox;a=tree;f=/debian
11:46.26Stskeepswazd: er, standard ones?
11:46.37tbfCorsac: seems you have to repackage from darcs instead of apt-get
11:46.39Stskeepswazd: there is a bug where you needed to restart at least
11:47.49Corsactbf: not really a problem though
11:49.50wazdStskeeps: oh
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11:50.31sharpieAre there any plans for having OpenCL on maemo?
11:51.55jjardontbf, http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=flors.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forum.nokia.com%2Finfo%2Fsw.nokia.com%2Fid%2Fc05693a1-265c-4c7f-a389-fc227db4c465%2FMaemo_5_SDK.html
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11:53.11tbfjjardon: weird that it highlights Qt but forgets Hildon/GTK
11:53.25tbfjjardon: seems some clueless wrote that page
11:53.57Stskeepsperhaps people just wants to forget about hildon ;)
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11:54.24tbfStskeeps: problem: Qt is not quite there yet on Fremantle
11:55.02jjardonStskeeps, and Fremantle is all hildon/gtk+, Qt support is not official I think
11:55.06tbfStskeeps: you have to jump through quite some loops to make Qt apps follow the fremantle layout guide...
11:55.32tbfStskeeps: where as Hildon provides all the layout guide convenience API
11:55.51Stskeepsjjardon: qt's in the SDK though
11:55.56tbfjjardon: do me it seems the author of that page mixed up Fremantle and Harmattan
11:56.13tbfStskeeps: but not the featured toolkit yet
11:56.18glassqt is the hype word of the year, regardless of where it is at on the devices
11:56.41tbfglass: at least some upper nokians believe that :-D
11:56.50jjardonStskeeps, As far as I know the default toolkit dor fremantle is still fildon/gtk, in harmattan will be Qt
11:57.19glasstbf: yeh.. they don't do much hands on stuff though... it seems
11:57.54Stskeepsjjardon: yes yes, note my smiley :P
11:57.56dnearyVDVsx: Ping?
11:58.03tbfglass: my C++ loving boss was relatively enthusiastic about the qt thing, now he just mumbles all the time: "should start a project to port Qt to C++. maybe call it qtmm."
11:58.20VDVsxdneary, pong
11:58.48glasstbf: hehe
11:58.50Corsactbf: pff, doesn't build
11:58.59Corsacthe packaging looks awful :/
11:59.02Corsacznyway, have to go
11:59.03Corsacseeya
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12:01.16jjardonStskeeps, oh, yes, I've seen it ;). Sorry, I'm a bit frustrated because I think It's a big fail from nokia to not mention hildon/gtk+ in his rel notes
12:01.55Stskeepsjjardon: probably right
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12:08.33RST38hreyawns
12:11.50RST38hwazd: Trying to install Thememaker
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12:22.07wazdWoo, I've made looped background :)
12:22.20RST38hFlying hellokitties? =)
12:22.46wazdNot that hardcore :)
12:22.46RST38hSorry, can't quite generate the .deb here: system is not quite compatible with what ThemeMaker expects, will have to wait until evening
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12:23.16aol_where can I find instructions to install the final sdk ?
12:23.20GeneralAntillesThe .desktops for the pano backgrounds are obnoxious.
12:23.29GeneralAntillesMakes it hard to just host images.
12:23.55GeneralAntillesaol_, they should be up on Forum Nokia.
12:25.14aol_ah right, thanks. For some reason i was looking in maemo.org
12:25.50Stskeepshm, qt-maemo in cph
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12:26.22GeneralAntillesaol_, it's all just moved to Forum Nokia.
12:26.40aol_nice thing I spend whole yesterday installing the previous sdk and to have Qt dev environment :P
12:26.45aol_hehe
12:26.51aol_luckily I'm paid by hour
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12:28.25X-Fadegnuton: ping?
12:29.08Stskeepsponders if 'grandma's slideshow' presentation style is bad
12:29.48RST38hhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Data_Sharing/Sharing_Plug-in has a mistake
12:30.01RST38hSection: user/other <====
12:30.33X-FadeRST38h: Nice find. Can you please file a bug?
12:30.39RST38hFiling.
12:31.08gnutonX-Fade, hey man! :D
12:31.39X-Fadegnuton: Now that qt is in SDK, can you please make sure that that the one in extras-devel matches?
12:31.41MyrttiRST38h: url?
12:31.52X-Fadegnuton: qt in SDK is newer than in extras-devel.
12:32.18RST38hMyrtti: above
12:32.23gnutonX-Fade, I know. you can remove old Qt packages we have in extras-devel
12:32.28RST38hCtrl+F and search for user/other
12:32.52gnutonX-Fade, all of them.
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12:33.23MyrttiRST38h: mind being really nice and explain what's wrong with that?
12:33.44X-FadeMyrtti: That is an illegal section.
12:33.47Myrttihasn't got teh brain today
12:33.56MyrttiX-Fade: and it should be... ?
12:34.00X-FadeMyrtti: https://wiki.maemo.org/Package_Categories
12:34.43Myrttinever mind then, I'll let someone else fix it in the LaTeX then
12:34.52Myrttireturns to fix the scripts
12:34.57RST38hX-Fade: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5280
12:35.08RST38hMyrtti: user/other is no longer a valid repo section
12:35.35RST38hMyrtti: The repo management is really anal now about section names, so it will never let you move such a package out of Extras-devel
12:35.50GeneralAntillesIt's just used by h-a-m as a catch-all for anything using invalid sections.
12:36.14MyrttiRST38h: and since I know jack shit about packaging and what the correct repo section might be, I can't correct it to what it should be, but I guess jatikka will know what to do.
12:36.16Myrttigets more tea
12:36.38RST38hMyrtti: I think we can handle it between ourselves. Let me check where other sharing plugins are placed...
12:37.03StskeepsRST38h: guess where, not sharing plugins ;)
12:37.04GeneralAntillesRST38h, probably just Nokia being spiteful for us having shot down user/sharing-plugins :roll:
12:37.35MyrttiRST38h: right
12:39.11RST38hGeneral: Look who you are talking too, I still want user/emulation =)
12:40.43GeneralAntillesRST38h, we're already having to scroll for 2 categories in Fremantle.
12:40.56GeneralAntillesAn odd number just wont work. :P
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12:42.43RST38hGeneral: Icons. Llike on Iphone.
12:43.08RST38hhopes that with h-a-m open sourced someone will eventually do icons
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12:45.16RST38hMyrtti: should be in user/multimedia
12:45.32Myrttifixes it in the source
12:45.43MyrttiI'm sure someone else fixes it too, but oh well
12:45.51Myrttiatleast I don't need to watch it in my trunk
12:47.07lopzhey
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12:47.50StskeepsRST38h: could you upload wazd's template.png somewhere?
12:47.59GeneralAntillesh-a-m has been open source since day 1.
12:48.01Stskeeps(if you have a final one)
12:48.18GeneralAntillesRST38h, and the iPhone doesn't use icons for categories.
12:48.43Myrttiright, nevermind
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12:48.55Myrttithere isn't such a section in my sources.
12:49.07Myrttidoes a grep
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12:51.41wazdRST38h: can you plz forward that png to Stskeeps?
12:52.19wazdRST38h: and how's it overall?
12:52.46Myrttibtw, it's a wiki, you can fix it yourself to that
12:54.04MyrttiI guess this would need to be reviewed as well... http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging%2C_Deploying_and_Distributing
12:56.00vesaright, so. the final sdk is out, is the 'pre final' image updated also or is that still beta2?
12:56.45chrittoI second that question, vesa!
12:57.04SpeedEvil'Norair agrees. “If they can successfully get half the power of an Intel chip with a cluster of microcontrollers, it will be a great success,” he says, “because the power consumption can be so low on these clusters and they have a level of robustness we haven’t seen yet.”'
12:57.06SpeedEvilhahahahahahahahahahah
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12:58.02glass__well they do have the power of an intel chip now. from 1981..
12:58.35aol_vesa: I tried that pre final vmware image yesterday and it still had the beta2 sdk
12:58.45aol_it's also dated in september
12:58.48RST38hwazd: A moment
12:58.55RST38hwazd: buttons still look too shiny to me
12:58.56aol_also Qt was not installed
12:58.58dnearyHi
12:59.04RST38hlooks clean and nice overally
12:59.07dnearyIs luarvique around?
12:59.10RST38hStskeeps: email?
12:59.13dnearyI can't remember IRC nicks
12:59.16StskeepsRST38h: carsten.munk@gmail.com
12:59.19RST38hdneary: Who raised me from slumber?
12:59.33RST38hdneary: have you brought a sacrifical lamb?
12:59.33dnearyRST38h: Bug #5280
12:59.35vesaaol_: yeah, reading that flors post has a comment that says 'were uploading it right now'
12:59.39RST38hdneary: a moment
12:59.42dnearyA sacrificial comment :)
12:59.48vesahere's to hoping they have a nice phat pipe =)
13:00.06dnearyWhat's wrong with "user/other" as a section in H-A-M?
13:00.24hendryif I wanted to get the sources of the libsoup-2.4 package in Fremantle, where would I find them please?
13:00.39RST38hdneary: repository promotion script apparently does not agree with you
13:00.50dnearyRST38h: Packaging docs do
13:00.52aol_vesa: ah. I wonder if I should wait for that then
13:00.52RST38hdneary: So that second reference should be fixed as well
13:00.56aol_I started building my own
13:01.02RST38hdneary: then fix the packaging docs. Should I file another bug?
13:01.05dnearyOr hildon-application-manager should
13:01.24dnearyLet me ask Jeremiah, we'll get some kind of answer on whether it's valid or not.
13:01.43dnearyCan you paste the error from the repository promotion script into a comment on that bug, please?
13:01.47dnearyjeremiah: Ping?
13:03.05RST38hdneary: I do not remember the error and can't currently recreate it
13:03.16RST38hdneary: X-Fade or jeremiah are your best bets here
13:03.40X-Fadedneary: illegal section
13:03.44dnearyRST38h: Well, it'll be the proof that user/other is not allowed
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13:04.03dnearyX-Fade: Is user/other supposed to be a valid section?
13:04.09X-Fadedneary: no
13:04.27Stskeepswazd: do you have the big slide with mer ports somewhere?
13:04.28X-Fadedneary: https://wiki.maemo.org/Package_Categories
13:05.37wazdStskeeps: yep
13:05.58jeremiahdneary: Hi there!
13:05.59dnearyX-Fade: That should agree with http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging%2C_Deploying_and_Distributing#Sections
13:05.59Stskeepswazd: in psd? i need a plainer version without the top and bottom bars
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13:06.54dnearyHi jeremiah
13:06.56wazdRST38h: buttons are identical to vkb
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13:07.04dnearyX-Fade: In that guide, it says "If the package's section starts "user/", but is not any of the above, the Application Manager forces them into an "Other" section. "
13:07.13dnearyDoesn't that imply that user/other should be OK?
13:07.27X-Fadedneary: No.
13:07.40X-Fadedneary: It forces them in Other, but it should be used.
13:07.55fiferboyI made it to extras!
13:08.04jeremiah:)
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13:08.25Stskeepswb qwerty12
13:08.43dnearyX-Fade: So what is your suggestion for the packaging guide, and for the example plug-in?
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13:09.05qwerty12Thank you, Stskeeps
13:09.12dnearyjeremiah: Perhaps you could have a look at bug #5280 and let me know what your take is, please?
13:09.20jeremiahYes, of course.
13:09.28dnearyjeremiah: Docs disagree with hildon app manager
13:09.55jeremiahWhich docs?
13:12.41RST38hwazd: I really have to see how it looks in action, will postpone feedback until this evening =)
13:13.43jeremiahdneary: Well, we really need to make sure whatever we say in the docs is consistent with whatever automated test X-Fade is using
13:13.55dnearyYes :)
13:13.58jeremiahSo that the package builds and is uploaded. :)
13:14.05dnearyjeremiah: The question is which one should change
13:14.12dnearyAnd to what
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13:14.42RST38hdneary: To put it short and blunt: all occurances of user/other in the docs have to be replaced with correct section names
13:15.10RST38h(and no, attempts to prove that user/other is still legal will not succeed)
13:15.30jeremiahI like user/Accessories
13:15.45RST38hIn the case of that bug the right place is user/multimedia
13:15.55RST38hBut other occurances may require other sections
13:16.40X-Fadejeremiah: That is even worse
13:16.49X-Fadejeremiah: All lowercase please.
13:16.49LoCusFE: CPU transparency method 'qemu-arm-sb' not found. <- got this error while installing
13:17.03jeremiahYeah, typo
13:17.35dnearyRST38h: I'm only referring to the latest docs - the "Package categories" page
13:17.52RST38hIf "other" is there, it is wrong
13:17.53dnearyRST38h: So that needs to be changed to remove any suggestion that user/anything is OK
13:18.02RST38hOr, alternatively, the promotion scripts are wrong
13:18.15RST38hdneary: More or less, yes, although check with X-Fade
13:18.17X-FadeThese categories have been decided on for Fremantle.
13:18.20RST38hdid not try arbitrary names
13:18.29X-FadeNext change opportunity -> Harmattan
13:18.31dnearyRST38h: "If the package's section starts "user/", but is not any of the above, the Application Manager forces them into an "Other" section. "
13:18.34RST38hWould try user/dies just for the heck of it though
13:18.58RST38hX-Fade: Is what Dave says still correct?
13:19.32X-FadeSorry, can we discuss this at another time? There are more important issues I need to look at now.
13:19.57LoCusFI do have DIABLO_ARMEL and all that stuff, but still getting the previous error and : Scratchbox CPU transparency method for ARMEL is present... no
13:20.15dnearyIt looks like we have to reproduce the list of valid categories in the packaging guide, and I'll change the example plug-in to use "utilities"
13:20.26jeremiahSounds good
13:20.41RST38hdneary: The example plugin should go to user/multimedia where other media sharing plugins are right now
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13:24.13GeneralAntillesdneary, the valid sections are on the wiki.
13:24.20dnearyRST38h: Fixed
13:24.22GeneralAntillesdneary, the packaging guide is outdated
13:24.24GeneralAntillesdneary, and Nokia is wrong.
13:24.33dnearyGeneralAntilles: There are different pages in the wiki with different information :)
13:24.41GeneralAntillesdneary, when I tried to get the guide updated to match the valid sections, the response was "docs follow tools"
13:25.08GeneralAntillesdneary, as the tools have only recently been updated, we're waiting on a doc update to match.
13:25.33GeneralAntillesdneary, Package_Categories has been the authoritative source for a very long time now.
13:25.41GeneralAntillesdneary, I assume you were there for that discussion at the beginning of the year?
13:26.03dnearyGeneralAntilles: I followed it, yes
13:26.25dnearyBut we're now talking not about what the tool does, but whether there's confusion in the docs
13:26.35dnearyanyway, official guide changed.
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13:26.49waz1Ooops
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13:29.05GeneralAntillesThere's always confusion in the docs. ;)
13:29.48GeneralAntillesgrumbles at more CamelCase on the wiki.
13:30.31GeneralAntillesInteresting theming http://maemo.gitorious.org/
13:31.04X-FadeDon't look at me ;)
13:32.01GeneralAntillesUgh
13:32.02GeneralAntilles"http://Maemo.org"
13:32.08GeneralAntillesIn the footer.
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13:43.38dnearybbias - toilet
13:44.28javispedrowhat's that smell? is that a new sdk?? =)
13:45.13GeneralAntillesI think it may be dave on the toilet.
13:45.25vesathat's the smell of the missing vmware image!
13:45.42dnearyBack
13:45.50dnearyDo you guys have nothing better to talk about?
13:46.23dnearyCan we start with an agenda for the summit meeting? Things that the council wants to bring up with us, with Nokia, that we want to bring up with ye, etc?
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13:49.18Stskeepswazd: got a icon template too?
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13:51.25ccookehmm. How good is Maemo 5 at running arbitrary X apps?
13:51.36ccookewill they appear in the task switcher?
13:51.51ccooke(since they don't in Maemo 4 - and that's the main downside of using them)
13:52.06wazdStskeeps: not yet
13:52.10Stskeepswazd: k
13:52.24qwerty12ccooke: StartupWMClass in its desktop file is your friend (for Maemo 4)
13:52.27qwerty12+field
13:52.56javispedrothe sdk looks frking awesome
13:53.03Stskeepsany screenshots out yet?
13:53.06javispedroanything I need to know before I delete my current FREMANTLE_* targets? :)
13:53.19ccookeqwerty12: oho. And after that, they'll work as well as native?
13:53.20javispedroStskeeps: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK/Discover_Maemo_5
13:53.29LoCusFare there Ubuntu packages for the fixed Xephyr (click on entry, crashes with segfault)?
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13:53.42Stskeepsjavispedro: ah yes
13:53.43qwerty12ccooke: Well, they'll show up in the task switcher at least :p
13:54.02Stskeepsjavispedro: not all of it OSS obviously but :)
13:54.30javispedroStskeeps: even then quite a bit an improvement. If there are x86 versions of "nokia-binaries" I wonder if "installing Maemo on x86" now makes sense.
13:54.46Stskeepsjavispedro: license pretty much prohibits the fun things sadly :P
13:54.47ccookeqwerty12: heh. that's good. As long as you can get from the app to the task switcher, then...
13:54.53Stskeepsbut you can do it of your own experiments
13:54.57javispedroStskeeps: ah, didn't look at it yet :P
13:54.59ccooke(is there a keyboard shortcut to bring up the task switcher?)
13:55.18Stskeepsjavispedro: but yes, it's awesome
13:55.39javispedrodeletes beta2
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13:55.47vesaccooke: sym-backspace
13:56.21ccookelovely
13:56.24ccookethat's good enough, then
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13:56.56ccookehmm. And there's java. I wonder if the KGS client will run :-)
13:56.59Stskeepswazd: and of course my theme maker bombs too
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13:57.11javispedroaw, certman gone.
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13:58.12javispedrooh, qt on the sdk now. but it won't be on device I guess?
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14:00.33X-Fadejavispedro: Nokia Applications repository.
14:00.45javispedroX-Fade, ah, ta.
14:00.45X-Fadejavispedro: Which is enabled by default on the device.
14:01.32X-FadeA lot of shared applictions (sdk/device) have been moved to Applications.
14:03.00fiferboyctrl-backspace works in the SDK
14:03.40javispedrogets lost in nokia forum :S
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14:06.59javispedronotes release notes still have the vdso support warning.
14:07.02javispedrosigh.
14:08.22MaceN8x0hm
14:08.36MaceN8x0the only interesting thing in andromeda is the purple one
14:08.37wazdStskeeps: nnot working??
14:08.44Stskeepswazd: now it does
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14:09.10wazdI'm cursed to type double letters(
14:09.26Stskeepsat least you don't have to prepare two presentations
14:09.30qwerty12Don't you mean "leters"
14:10.21wazdqwerty12: fuck!1
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14:12.52wazdStskeeps: I'm drawwing some icons noww
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14:20.23GAN800wishes somebody would fix up FBReader.
14:20.55Stskeeps~flashing
14:20.56infobotrumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
14:21.19X-FadeGAN800: Can you create a gitorious product under website?
14:22.04GeneralAntillesX-Fade, yeah, one sec.
14:22.15X-FadeGeneralAntilles: And assign to Tero by default?
14:25.28fatal^Jaffa: hello, I'm completely new to maemo. I'm building rygel which needs a couple of updated dependencies, among others vala which you seem to maintain.... I'm looking into this "mud-building" thing... could you possibly give me some hints on how you'd like me to handle an update of vala? I need 0.7.7 to be able to build libgee (which I've based off the debian package).
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14:28.37GeneralAntillesX-Fade, done.
14:29.04X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I got your bug and I can honestly say that I have nothing to do with that service ;)
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14:30.50fralsis trying to figure out how to hook into the recieved sms part...
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14:31.32Jaffafatal^: Vala 0.7.7 will go to extras-devel this evening
14:31.40fatal^Jaffa: awesome!
14:32.06carloscesaHi folks..
14:32.17fatal^Jaffa: I also need to update packages which are part of the SDK, libsoup and gupnp ... do you have any hints for me on how I should handle that properly?
14:32.40javispedroin between all those "maemo fansites", there's one that's trying hard to attract users by offering "Introduction to maemo development tutorials"... in Java ME.
14:32.50X-Fadefatal^: Exactly the same version as in SDK?
14:32.52Jaffafatal^: Hmm. Tricky. Possibly ask on maemo-developers and/or ask Jeremiah
14:33.29carloscesaI have a doubt: I compiled a new kernel version to my N810 and reflash it. but for some reason, the entry /sys/kernel/debug is not there :(
14:33.44fatal^X-Fade: I need gupnp 0.13 (rather then 0.12.8 as in the SDK) and libsoup 2.26 (rather then 2.24 as in the sdk).
14:34.34zeenixfatal^: remember that you don't want to update the existing gupnp packages
14:34.35X-Fadefatal^: Ok, let me check what versions are on device.
14:34.49X-Fadefatal^: You can't upgrade system libs.
14:34.58RST38hjavispedro: so, what did they teach?
14:35.01javispedroon final SDK, 0.12.8-0maemo1+0m5
14:35.18javispedroRST38h: of course, how to code a midlet.
14:35.29javispedrothey are too busy making the site and putting all the adsense banners they don't even have time to read about the platform.
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14:35.43javispedroand just assume it's going to be like symbian.
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14:40.21zeenixfatal^: about libsoup, i guess it should be ok to provide a separate (new) package
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14:40.40RST38hjavispedro: good to see the interest in the platform though, even by clueless idiots =)
14:40.44X-Fadezeenix: Are you sure it isn't used on device?
14:40.53RST38h==> home
14:40.53fatal^zeenix: you mean a package that is co-installable with the existing libsoup?
14:41.01zeenixfatal^: we can fix the conflict/dep when new libsoup is provided as part of SDK/fremantle upgrade
14:41.13X-FadeOtherwise you should rename the lib.
14:41.28zeenixX-Fade: it *is* used
14:41.41X-Fadezeenix: Then upgrading is a no.
14:41.42zeenixX-Fade: don't remember if the so name is bumped or not
14:41.53fatal^libsoup hasn't bumped soname
14:42.09fatal^gupnp has... so maybe I'll get away with just disabling the -dev package there...
14:42.09zeenixdamn!
14:42.50X-FadeWell, you can upgrade but that breaks SSU.
14:43.10fatal^is there no way to get updates into the platform? Since the ABI is the same it should be smooth sailing just updating it... no need for changing any other packages.
14:43.44javispedroup so far, getting updates for libs hasn't been easy at all.... i don't if that's going to change with fremantle.
14:44.06javispedrofatal^: in fact, i'll try first if you can code around the dependency on the new version.
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14:46.55zeenixX-Fade: we have upgraded libsoup in here already. the problem is that it'll only be available to outside people in an SSU upgrade
14:47.33X-Fadezeenix: Yeah, isn't life great ;)
14:48.11X-Fadezeenix: Sometimes repository management is a pain.
14:48.17zeenixX-Fade: so could there be a workaround for this issue
14:48.22X-Fadezeenix: And the larger we get...
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14:48.56zeenixi can tell you the exact release and package names of the libsoup that will be coming in the SSU upgrade
14:49.24zeenixand you allow fatal^ to provide packages of the same name and version
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14:49.31X-Fadezeenix: Problem is that if you upload it to extras-devel now, it will trigger an upgrade.
14:49.54X-Fadezeenix: And break SSU, so the device will never get any updates anymore.
14:50.32javispedrouh?
14:50.46javispedroweren't safeguards implemented in h-a-m?
14:50.59X-Fadejavispedro: Yeah, it won't show the update.
14:51.16X-Fadejavispedro: But if you force install it, the device broken.
14:51.21javispedroheh.
14:51.32fatal^X-Fade: my libsoup package has lower version number then the nokia packages, so it should work... unless you also replaced dpkg --compare-versions with some home-brew... ?
14:51.34X-Fadeosso-software-version meta package will be removed.
14:52.02X-Fadefatal^: osso-software-version has a strict dependency on a version
14:52.34X-Fade<PROTECTED>
14:54.08fatal^seems someone came up with a "brilliant" idea to avoid breakage which is creating an impossible situation. :/
14:54.39javispedroah, the "chicken-like" algorithms ;)
14:55.48X-Fadefatal^: Yes, glad it wasn't me.
14:57.18X-FadeNot all applications have to deal with it luckily. But anything that is in the system by default does.
14:57.43zeenixX-Fade: so can't we keep this in testing repo until there is an SSU upgrade with new libsoup package?
14:58.00X-Fadezeenix: It won't even get in there ;)
14:58.06zeenixerrr..
14:58.15zeenixbah
14:58.50fatal^how about I rename gupnp and libsoup packages, install in /opt/ (or something) and link my dependencies to that rather then the system provided libs?
14:58.58zeenixfatal^: so i guess we are only left with the option of setting up a private repo for rygel?
14:58.59LoCusFis there any knowledge on where the swap file is located on the N900?
14:59.11zeenixfatal^: ah
14:59.12X-Fadefatal^: renaming libs works.
14:59.22zeenixfatal^: that sounds good enough
14:59.25X-Fadefatal^: Ugly, but perhaps the most sane.
14:59.26aol_just made my first app with Qt Creator for N900 :) \o/
14:59.27zeenixif it works :)
15:00.09fatal^I guess the devices has enough storage to not have a problem with the unneccesary overhead...
15:00.23Stskeepsaol_: woo :)
15:00.40fatal^is /opt a suitable place or how is the storage partitioned?
15:00.45javispedrofatal^: that puts quite a new light on the /opt issue I did not imagine.
15:01.11javispedrofatal^: btw, considered static linking?
15:01.40aol_i wonder when they will have Maemo debugging in Qt Creator
15:01.49aol_I really like the IDE they have
15:02.23aol_but seems a bit disconnected from mobile world right now
15:02.39X-Fadefatal^: Yes, /opt is storage space.
15:03.00fatal^javispedro: that would be another option..... although I think I'll try to avoid that.
15:03.04DocScrutinizercan anybody share a pointer to docs about GSM/phone API on meamo5 please
15:03.17StskeepsDocScrutinizer: go check nokia-binaries?
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15:03.41javispedrofatal^: nearly the same as putting the DSOs in /opt, but then may be easier depending on if you want to make multiple packages.
15:03.47DocScrutinizerStskeeps: first I like to know which binaries to check ;-)
15:03.56StskeepsDocScrutinizer: cellmo* is probably a good choice
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15:04.27DocScrutinizerStskeeps: is there any kind of API to e.g. send a SMS from my own app?
15:04.30Pau_Gasoljuego de boxeo online http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html
15:04.31fatal^javispedro: I don't think I need it multiple time, but I'm a community kind of guy... maybe someone else needs it and we don't need a *third* version of it .. ;P
15:04.55javispedrofatal^: touché :)
15:04.58DocScrutinizerStskeeps: or find out about the signal strength etc
15:06.10DocScrutinizerStskeeps: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_api_documentation/ isn't very well documented -  I even have to guess what the subsystems are supposed to be for
15:06.16fatal^X-Fade: thanks for the guidance.. I'll see if I can put something together that I can make available via the garage...
15:06.34fralsDocScrutinizer: if you find anything in there about how to take control over a received sms, give me a yell please ;)
15:07.06DocScrutinizerfrals: heh, sure ;-D
15:07.39X-Fadefatal^: Sorry not to have a better solution.
15:08.43X-Fadefatal^: It is a battle I'm still fighting :)
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15:10.43fralscurses the small screen of his n95
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15:11.17fralsNot optimal to read documentation on :(
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15:15.16javispedroouch
15:15.32javispedrothere's quite a typo in the maemo 5 sdk installation instructions
15:15.33javispedrohttp://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation
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15:15.33javispedrogrep for "XARMEL" [sic]
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15:15.58javispedronotices he can edit and edits.
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15:18.48rikshot-_does anyone know whats going on with the x server crashing when i click a text input field for example
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15:19.40javispedrorikshot-_, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Known_Issues_in_the_SDK
15:20.27rikshot-_ah
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15:20.42rikshot-_so i should upgrade ubuntu
15:21.08javispedroor xephyr, they say.
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15:22.36Stskeepswazd: testing theme
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15:24.48Stskeepswazd: did away from the mer logo in the top?
15:24.56rikshot-_hmm, im developing this on mac with the esbox virtual image ubuntu, and im using the latest xquartz x11...
15:25.31Stskeepswazd: i like though
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15:25.43javispedrorikshot-_, you mean Apple's X11 crashes? O.o
15:26.18rikshot-_lost its connection to the display 10.0.1.188:2.0; most likely the X server was shut down or you killed/destroyed the application. <- that ip is my computers ip... so it seems so
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15:27.29javispedroyou have to run the SDK UI under Xephyr (which you may then run in the Ubuntu vm or Apple X11 (afaik)).
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15:38.29javispedrook, the sdk is definitely slick
15:38.39javispedro++ to whoever decided to include the device nokia font.
15:38.46javispedrosome layouts used to break here due to that...
15:38.56qwerty12It's been installable for a while in Beta 2 ;)
15:39.22javispedro:P :)
15:39.34rikshot-_ah, i didn't have the latest x11 for mac, updating it solved the issue
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15:39.49javispedrorikshot-_, ah, interesting think to know.
15:40.08rikshot-_yeah, 2.4.0 works fine
15:40.18javispedroarghs to the palette swap bug.
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15:46.26javispedrofscinkg damn sleak phone. I want it already. :D
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15:58.15wazdStskeeps: I've made even cooler looped background :)
15:58.15Stskeepshehe
15:59.07Stskeepswazd: messaging looks odd but yeah.. white background
15:59.37wazdHmmm?
16:00.25Stskeepsan IM is white
16:00.49Stskeepswazd: i'll show you tomorrow
16:01.12mavhchow come everyone's over the screen size now?
16:01.17Stskeepsmavhc: shiny device effect
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16:02.53jaskaim not really over it, reading books being the main use of my n810 :|
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16:03.03jaskaguess i'll lug both around
16:03.30Stskeepsprobably would keep his n810 around
16:03.32Stskeepsyou can never have enough tablets
16:03.43qwerty12...until you OD :)
16:03.51jaskaom nom nom :)
16:04.59Stskeepswazd: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/polished2.png
16:05.06Stskeeps(563 kb, my apologies)
16:07.41wazd.jpg maybe?)
16:08.05Stskeepsmaybe :P anyway, it works under mer
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16:11.32wazdStskeeps: so hows it for you?
16:11.39Stskeepsit's decent so far
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16:12.01Stskeepsi like the theming
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16:24.42BluesLeehi, how do i install the new sdk on a non debian linux box, for instance opensuse
16:25.05javispedropalm creates an official way to bypass the app store: http://investor.palm.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=413826
16:25.38javispedro(the pre app catalog, or whatever its called)
16:26.08Stskeepsjavispedro: they did get a lot of bad press on the OSS stuff
16:26.43javispedroyeah, I remember that "tip calculator" app :)
16:27.27javispedrothey're unleashed a web full of .install-like files now.
16:27.41wazdStskeeps: anything not skinned?
16:28.15qwerty12javispedro: I prefer Quim's blog post with the Terminal screenshot :)
16:28.17Stskeepswazd: i think everything is skinned but it looks awkward in places
16:28.49wazd:(
16:28.55javispedroqwerty12: I prefer that video with qgil using your Transmission port ;)
16:29.41qwerty12'Twas Jussi, and alas all it got was the display of its icon on the desktop :p
16:30.03javispedrono ikea catalogs? :(
16:30.13qwerty12is fixing the UI lockup bug, introduced with 1.75 :
16:30.31qwerty12Heh, I'm surprised people actually share them :/
16:31.00wjtmaeeemo, just some oak and some pine and a handful of .. finns?
16:31.29qwerty12+ vodka
16:31.57javispedroglazes at new version of osso-games-startup
16:32.10javispedronot using a GtkFixed anymore. :)
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16:51.07GAN800Shit. My passport shipped.
16:51.26Stskeepsick, will you get it in time?
16:54.38GeneralAntillesI dunno
16:54.44GeneralAntillesI'm gonna call the post office and see if I can get them to hold it there.
16:55.28luke-jrwait
16:55.31luke-jrGAN800 == GeneralAntilles?
16:55.38JaffaYeah
16:55.43luke-jrfails
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16:57.35hrwhi guys
16:57.49hrwas usual I have a stupid question
16:57.55luke-jrindeed
16:58.00*** join/#maemo jrocha (n=JRocha@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com)
16:58.44luke-jrbut if you ask it, it might cease to be stupid
16:58.47luke-jr<.<
17:00.20GeneralAntillesFucking stupid pieces of shit.
17:00.21ShadowJKit's no easier to telepathically read stupid questions than smart questions
17:00.24GeneralAntillesIt's not overnight mail.
17:00.32GeneralAntillesI pay for overnight mail and they ship it priority.
17:00.34hrw;)
17:00.37GeneralAntillesWell, have fun in Amsterdam guys.
17:00.47hrwmaemo5 is still not Debian based but just similar to?
17:00.56luke-jr...
17:01.16GeneralAntillesFucking US government
17:01.25GeneralAntillesHopefully Quim can get some money out of my tickets
17:01.34javispedro:(
17:02.01Stskeeps:(
17:02.17luke-jrvotes Quim ship GeneralAntilles a N900
17:02.45StskeepsGeneralAntilles: you're travelling tommorow?
17:02.54GeneralAntillesPiece of shit
17:03.07GeneralAntillesStskeeps, was.
17:03.15GeneralAntillesPassport will be here sometime next week, so it doesn't matter.
17:03.28StskeepsGeneralAntilles: really sorry to hear that
17:03.33hrwso?
17:03.53Stskeepshrw: it doesn't track debian that much
17:04.49lcukGeneralAntilles, havent you known about the summit for most of the year?  what happened with passport?
17:04.57wazdGeneralAntilles: welcome to the government haters club)
17:05.25GeneralAntilleslcuk, it took 7 weeks to process it "expedited" which was quoted to me as 1-3 weeks.
17:05.30coldbootInteresting, the implementation of sprintf on the Nokia tablet doesn't space-pad numbers...
17:05.41GeneralAntillesI might've had a chance if they decided to overnight it like I paid for.
17:05.53javispedrocoldboot: "the implementation" is glibc's usual one.
17:05.56GeneralAntillesBut, nope, they had to screw that up and ruin my week.
17:07.01ShadowJKdon't forget locale effects
17:07.04lcuk:(
17:07.05javispedroah, government employees...
17:07.16*** join/#maemo bilboed (n=bilboed@89.129.133.118)
17:07.37*** part/#maemo hrw|gone (n=hrw@chello089078170228.chello.pl)
17:07.50coldbootPeople need to get fired more often.
17:07.53coldbootFor being stupid.
17:07.58coldbootEspecially in government.
17:08.14lcukeverybody is stupid from time to time
17:08.39javispedroeveryone is always stupid, in certain topics.
17:08.39coldbootConsistently stupid, then.
17:09.02*** join/#maemo cyndis (n=quassel@lyseo.edu.ouka.fi)
17:09.02coldbootIf that topic lines up with their job, they need another job.
17:09.14GeneralAntillesGovernment is stupid in doing their job.
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17:11.05lcukcoldboot, you are right, people find their level in jobs and for some people the level is court jester
17:13.14javispedronotices his passport has expired too.
17:13.33coldbootOne thing I've learned in working for companies is that you need to fire the bad seeds early, before they do any damage and make your good people leave.
17:13.47coldbootGood people won't put up working alongside idiots.
17:14.14aSIMULAteramen, halleluja
17:15.06VDVsxchecks his passport
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17:16.08wazdchecks his passport. No passport was found :(
17:16.41javispedrofortunately, I look like a criminal on my current passport. Hope next photo is better.
17:16.41VDVsxwazd, lol, I don't need my to travel, but still
17:16.59VDVsxS/my/mine/
17:17.12GeneralAntilleswazd, I guess we can both watch from IRC.
17:18.00RST38hThe Truth is Out: Most Mac Owners Also Own a Windows PC, But Not Vice Versa
17:18.14RST38hback
17:18.26lcukis nervous
17:18.37wazdGeneralAntilles: yeah, beer, snacks :)
17:18.46javispedroRST38h: come back when you find "Most iPhone Owners Also Own A Dumbphone" :)
17:19.08javispedroirc party.
17:19.24javispedroah well.
17:19.27RST38hjavispedro: Will "also own a dildo" version do?
17:19.27VDVsxhits lcuk with a morphine injection :)
17:19.47GeneralAntilleswazd, at the very least I wont die of jetlag.
17:19.49GeneralAntillesjohnx, ping?
17:19.58javispedrohope the recorded casts are of good quality.
17:19.59wazdRST38h: there's an app for that :D
17:20.07RST38hwazd: Oh shit...
17:20.09RST38hfacepalms
17:20.10lcukVDVsx, its not morphene
17:20.11lcukits nerves
17:20.22GeneralAntillessighs.
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17:20.36GeneralAntillesDid the IRC party last year, it's jealousy inducing.
17:20.41javispedro....
17:20.44javispedro:(
17:20.52lcukGeneralAntilles, you could try leaving the country using a hand drawn passport
17:21.02GeneralAntilleswont have any residual council status to bank on next year, either. :(
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17:21.34javispedroGeneralAntilles: did you call the post office?
17:21.37lcukyou are always known as general antilles of the grey council.
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17:22.38GeneralAntillesjavispedro, yes, the lady was very sarcastic about how I should have paid for expedited services if I needed it in time.
17:22.41GeneralAntillesI just thanked her and hung up.
17:22.43GeneralAntillesSo not worth arguing with government employees.
17:22.47*** part/#maemo Anunakin (n=fazzi@187-25-47-224.3g.claro.net.br)
17:22.51javispedrospecially be phone
17:22.55javispedrothey'll piss you off easily.
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17:23.14javispedronot so easily in person (but still)
17:23.20javispedros/be/by
17:24.00qwerty12GeneralAntilles: Point freejazz to that employee
17:24.09coldbootGeneralAntilles: You might be able to get someone who's not useless on the phone.
17:24.15coldbootWhat country is it?
17:24.18lcukhi lbt \o
17:25.11GeneralAntillescoldboot, it's already being processed by USPS. There's nothing to do about it now.
17:25.16*** join/#maemo Anunakin (n=fazzi@187-25-47-224.3g.claro.net.br)
17:25.27javispedrochase the postman along the country? :P
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17:26.41lbthi lcuk
17:28.25javispedrostupid gui question: which one drnoksnes gui would you prefer, the current one ( http://depot.javispedro.com/drnoksnes/if1.png ) or one not doing any dirty hacks with osso-games-startup ( http://depot.javispedro.com/drnoksnes/if2.png ) ?
17:29.00qwerty12Current one
17:29.15RST38hjavis: Look the same to me, I have no preference
17:29.23wazdUnable to view it :(
17:29.28RST38hjavis: If the second one is more kosher, go with the second one
17:29.35ccookeGeneralAntilles: Not that it helps, but you can probably claim the cost of expedited shipping plus your air fares and any non-refundable hotel charges.
17:29.40javispedrowazd: sorry, they're big sized pngs.
17:29.47javispedroshould've warned you before? :S
17:29.48ccookeGeneralAntilles: but yeah, that's not useful :-/
17:29.51GeneralAntillesThat'll get me shipped off to Cuba here.
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17:30.12wazdjavispedro: tomorrow that nightmare would be over :)
17:30.30RST38hGeneral: There is an expedited passport service in DC, one day, $90 (several years ago at least)
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17:31.04RST38hGeneral: But be prepared for equal opportunity employees asking you invasive questions on what you need the passport for
17:32.35ccookeRST38h: Sounds like he has a good reason, though...
17:33.07RST38hccooke: I had to show them a paper from my academic advisor last time
17:33.31GeneralAntillesccooke, probably, not sure I have the energy to do it.
17:33.38GeneralAntillesccooke, at least Nokia paid the air fares.
17:33.42ccookeGeneralAntilles: yeah, I can see that.
17:34.03GeneralAntillesRST38h, my passport has already been processed. I can't apply for a second one.
17:36.05fralsjavispedro: id say if1.png
17:36.09RST38hoh, yesss
17:36.13frals(yes, scrolling backlog is awesome)
17:36.33GeneralAntillesSad part is that my mother and sister's passports showed up last week. They sent theirs in the same time I did, selected standard service, listed a later trip date and received theirs in plenty of time to go nowhere.
17:36.54javispedromurphy's law at work.
17:37.22RST38h"you cant get passport because you already have one just not where you can reach it"
17:37.56lcuk"dear Mr Antilles, your passport has been delivered to our european office, please call by to collect"
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17:41.06javispedro(btw, thanks for feedback, if1 wins :P)
17:41.09coldbootGeneralAntilles: You might be able to get someone at USPS to heighten the priority.
17:41.20coldbootGeneralAntilles: Or have someone at the passport office with power do that.
17:42.11GeneralAntillescoldboot, I need it by about 10 AM tomorrow morning.
17:43.05rmtI took a train 3 hours to Vienna once, to get my passport in person.. flight was 2 days off.. couldn't risk it.  But I did discover that they (Australia) has emergency passports which last for 2 months, and you can get them same-day or overnight. :-P
17:43.18GeneralAntillesEven if I managed to get it overnighted now (which I don't believe is possible) it wouldn't get to me until the afternoon.
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17:46.33AndrewFBlackhow dare someone put files in the builder queue before me now i have to wait
17:46.40GeneralAntillesThose are described as "life or death" here.
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17:48.02Stskeepsclaim nokia will send a hitman after you
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17:50.33qwerty12_N810Say that I'm coming to Florida and I'm gonna force you to listen to Rap and Grime
17:51.07lcukhttp://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=41640
17:51.40ccooke(Things I'm hopeful that the n900 won't do: Randomly decide it wants to be on *some other provider's network* like my android phone)
17:52.19fralsccooke: doesnt android have an option to specify which operator to use? :P
17:52.23lcukccooke, get an n810 then - its 100% guaranteed to not connect to the wrong network.
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17:52.34fralslol lcuk
17:52.46SpeedEvil99.998%
17:53.18ccookefrals: Technically, yes. And every time it puts me on someone elses network, I use that feature to select Vodafone UK, the correct one.
17:53.21javispedroyes, there's always the chance some of the builtin software will gain consciousness, self-adapt the hw to form a gsm radio and connect to damn vodafone.
17:53.22ccookelcuk: Incorrect :-)
17:53.40fralsccooke: nice, solid feature then.. :D
17:53.40GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N810, as long as I'm spending time with you. :)
17:53.40SpeedEvilSome providers do support cell-over-wifi protocol. But that would usually mean porting your own reverse engineered client
17:53.55qwerty12_N810ccooke: Vodafone? The phone's trying to give you a hint...
17:53.58qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: lol
17:54.12javispedrowill be here during the summit too :P
17:54.18javispedrosave for ..
17:54.24javispedrowell.
17:54.29javispedromaybe be here. :P
17:54.30SpeedEvilfor ... velociraptors?
17:54.44ccooke(at my local pub, there's a paid-for wifi network which has slightly stronger signal than the pub's (free) wifi signal. Whenever I'm in one part of the pub, my n810 tends to connect to the wrong one :-)
17:55.03javispedroSpeedEvil: they present quite a bit of danger this part of the season.
17:55.19ccookeqwerty12_N810: I'd generally agree... but none of the other providers are any better
17:55.19fralsill be here trying to do MMS stuff, no worries!
17:55.25fralsunless i end up in an asylum, that is
17:55.34qwerty12_N810ccooke: True :/
17:55.38javispedroMMS, MMS, MMS, MMS, MMS
17:55.44ccookefrals: you'll be implementing WAP for that. I think I'd take the asylum :-/
17:55.45RST38hscrew MMS
17:55.48RST38hwazd: Here? =)
17:56.14wazdRST38h: yep
17:56.17SpeedEviltries again to find the funky paper and fails.
17:56.23fralsccooke: i'll try to get a proof of concept over HTTP working first... just got ten million things to find info on before that ;)
17:56.24ccookeqwerty12_N810: on the other hand, the last two times I've contacted Vodafone's customer service I've received *above average* support.
17:56.30RST38hwazd: Should we finish that ati85 package?
17:56.31SpeedEvilIt reported 1300 bits/second over GSM voice.
17:56.49ccookefrals: good luck, either way. Getting support for MMS will be a bit of a win.
17:57.00SpeedEvil(data -> human-voicebox model -> GSM -> voice recognition ->data)
17:57.07qwerty12_N810ccooke: Ah, can't comment on that: I've never once rang customer service...
17:58.25ccookeqwerty12_N810: How's about this: First call, they gave me what sounded like a ossible fix for my issue. Second call (when it didn't work), they noted that I'd already been asked to try the first thing and put me through to second line. Second line said they'd call back within 24 hours.
17:58.46timelesswait, maemo summit starts thursday-night/friday?
17:58.46*** part/#maemo Rovast (n=rovast@221.2.86.54)
17:58.49ccookeqwerty12_N810: they called back within four, asked sensible technical questions and the issue was resolved about an hour later.
17:58.55EspadaV8do people really use MMS?
17:59.03timelesswasn't planning to arrive that early
17:59.22ccookeEspadaV8: it seems that it's essential to a hell of a lot of people.
17:59.25RST38hEspada: some apparently do
17:59.26wazdRST38h: ok
17:59.31X-Fadetimeless: Most of us will arrive on Thursday.
17:59.35ccookeWhich I find strange, but hey.
17:59.43EspadaV8hmm
17:59.48ccookeHeh. We should find somewhere to go to on Thursday night
17:59.50EspadaV8not sure i've ever used it
17:59.55timelessi'm still in prague
18:00.09ccookeI've used it when a phone I had was unable to send SMS
18:00.09timelessand was thinking of arriving midday friday
18:00.18EspadaV8each to their own i guess
18:00.31fralsi just got an mms from my mom with the new kitchen table she got ^^
18:00.32X-Fadetimeless: Well, you probably know all Nokia announcements already ;)
18:00.32ccooke(but that was around two or three times)
18:00.35timelessespadav: it's very regional
18:00.46X-Fadetimeless: Friday is Nokia day.
18:00.48timelessx-fade: doubtful
18:01.00SpeedEvilhttp://ondemand.msmedia.zdf.newmedia.nacamar.net/zdf/data/msmedia/3sat/09/10/091002_klavier_kuz_vh.wmv
18:01.05timelesswell, nokia isn't paying me to be there
18:01.12SpeedEvilTodays randomness. (piano voice synth)
18:01.13*** join/#maemo igagis (n=igagis@ns2.vsev.lanck.net)
18:01.13timelessshould i ignore it?
18:01.27*** join/#maemo promulo (n=romulo@150.165.63.86)
18:01.41SpeedEvilfrals: Wow!
18:01.53fralstruly amazing, is it not? ;)
18:01.56SpeedEvilfrals: do you have the required replicator on your phone?
18:02.01*** join/#maemo __t (n=t@brln-4dbc4040.pool.mediaWays.net)
18:02.16SpeedEvilI could imagine it'd be damn awkward if you're on the bus, and out pops a table.
18:02.17ccookeSpeedEvil: hey, we could do that.
18:02.30fralsSpeedEvil: nope, but it has color fax! ;)
18:02.35timelessare people doing spmething thursday night?
18:02.53wazdRST38h: can you tell me buttons order (rows)
18:02.55ccookeSpeedEvil: 3d printers aren't all that espensive these days... and the control software for them can run on linux.
18:03.08ccooketimeless: haven't heard of anything yet.
18:03.17SpeedEvilprefers shadow fax.
18:03.31*** part/#maemo carloscesa (n=carlos@189.2.128.130)
18:05.32RST38hwazd: exactly the same order as before (73 after 83+), but both 73 and 83+SE are enabled
18:06.08luke-jrSpeedEvil: how do you play that?
18:07.28SpeedEvilluke-jr: just played for me
18:08.23SpeedEvilff/gxine
18:10.38SpeedEvilIt originally came to me as mms:// - I just replaced with http:// and it worked
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18:12.03fiferboylcuk: I'm compiling Qt :)
18:12.28lcukgood
18:13.04lcuki keep thinking about how good qt would be without all the weight
18:13.18*** join/#maemo promulo (n=romulo@150.165.63.86)
18:14.10fiferboylcuk: If the libraries were always loaded it would feel a lot lighter on the device
18:14.39fiferboyI guess we will see with Harmattan
18:15.16javispedrotry to expand on the "maemo launcher" idea :P
18:16.46lcukfiferboy, not the kind of thing im thinking lol
18:16.53lcukRISC vs CISC
18:17.19wazdRST38h: done
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18:17.49fiferboylcuk: Ah.  I like all the functionality it give me, but to each his own
18:18.00fiferboySome like pushing pixels around directly on the screen :)
18:18.28lcuknods muchly
18:18.45lcuki like sending and collating data to new and interesting places as well :P
18:19.00wazdRST38h: gone
18:19.01fiferboyTrue
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18:22.09lopzu'
18:23.57RST38hwazd: got it !
18:26.04RST38hwazd: the only remaining thing is the ti73 skin
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18:30.26*** join/#maemo waz1 (n=user@83.149.9.182)
18:32.11waz1RST38h: well, i'll make it asap
18:36.03*** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@a91-153-253-251.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
18:37.05RST38hwill reboot to linux and repackage
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18:42.06crashanddie__what's the "Token based access restrictions"?
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18:43.32Stskeepscrashanddie__: no idea how it ended on that agenda
18:43.34jukuli_Hello, could someone help a bit? I'm getting the same error that this guy is getting. http://lists.scratchbox.org/pipermail/scratchbox-devel/2007-September/000335.html
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18:43.55jukuli_when i try to install maemo to a different location than the basic /scratchbox
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18:44.01jukuli_is there a workaround for this?
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18:44.17VDVsxFriday Summit party theme: "Slower is sexier" -> http://www.flexbar.nl/ ;)
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18:45.25crashanddie__jukuli_, how about fixing your environment before trying to install anything?
18:45.47crashanddie__jukuli_, the /etc/hostname issue is pretty bad to start with, and I wonder why you get the modprobe error
18:46.32jukuli_crashanddie__: ah sorry... forget everything else from that paste :) the error is that Error: Operation not permitted chroot(plpaplpla)
18:47.00gcobbjukuli_: Did you log out and log in again so you have the sbox group?
18:47.02crashanddie__jukuli_, can you check who owns /scratchbox and /scratchbox/users/user ?
18:47.13jukuli_gcobb: no but I used the newgrp sbox
18:47.31crashanddie__gcobb, can you update me on the "Token-based access restriction" you sent in the email?
18:47.52rmtFor all you non-dutchies - just make sure you have shitloads of 50cent pieces in your pocket if you go out drinking .. at most places, it'll cost you one every time you want to take a piss.
18:47.58jukuli_hmm let me start from the beginning so this doesn't get out of hands :) I'm using this guide http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_2_sdk_installation/#32bitinstall
18:48.09gcobbjukuli_: I vaguely remember having a problem using newgrp -- but I might be confused
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18:48.35crashanddie__rmt, jesus, dutchies really are a moneymongering people
18:48.39jukuli_and whats different is that "sudo ./maemo-scratchbox-install_5.0beta2.sh -u USER -s ANOTHER_PATH
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18:49.07jukuli_and because of that when I run "sh maemo-sdk-install_5.0beta2.sh -s ANOTHER_PATH" i get that chroot error
18:49.24jukuli_the ANOTHER_PATH is another harddrive and different mount
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18:49.48gcobbcrashanddie__: I don't really know -- it was mentioned in the sprint meeting as a task that needs some discussion at the summit so I added it to the list
18:49.54rmtcrashanddie - and don't expect to be able to order a glass of tap-water anywhere, either. :-P
18:50.08gcobbcrashanddie__: you might want to check the sprint meeting log -- it might mean more to you than to me
18:50.09Mekjukuli: is that other harddrive mounted nosuid?
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18:50.15crashanddie__rmt, kanker-obers
18:50.30jukuli_Mek: don't know..how can I check this?
18:50.34rmtobers?  kanker-lijers is the one I know. :-P
18:50.41Mekjukuli_: run mount to see the options
18:50.56Mekjukuli_: I think nosuid or at least nodev will cause problems
18:50.58GAN8001crashanddie__, for Mer.
18:51.04jukuli_Mek: just a sec
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18:51.41crashanddie__GeneralAntilles, ah, that kind of tokens
18:51.51crashanddie__was hoping to make a quick buck :P
18:51.57jukuli_Mek: "/dev/sdb1 on /media/HOME type ext3 (rw,nosid,nodev,uhelper=hal)
18:52.26jukuli_Mek: sorry misstyped.. nosid -> nosuid
18:52.37crashanddie__nosid?
18:52.38crashanddie__ah
18:52.38rmt"Jij moeter was duits!" should be a reasonable insult to most dutch (but I'd take it as a compliment, were I dutch)
18:52.41Mekjukuli_: yeah, you'll at least have to remount it without the nodev to be able to have a scratchbox install on there, I don't remember if the nosuid was also a problem
18:52.58X-Fadermt: Almost ok.
18:53.04crashanddie__nosuid should be acceptable -- at least there's no reason for scratchbox to require it
18:53.11lcukX-Fade, did you see my request last night
18:53.27crashanddie__rmt, "je" ou "jouw", and "moeder" :)
18:53.33crashanddie__s/ou/or/
18:53.34rmt:-)
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18:53.48X-Fadelcuk: no?
18:54.06crashanddie__X-Fade, how far is your commute from the summit?
18:54.07rmtOnly Italian and German for the last 11 months.
18:54.13lcukis there a URL on maemo.org to access a users avatar image by name
18:54.21X-Fadecrashanddie__: about 2 hours
18:54.22lcukmaemo.org/avatars/lcuk
18:54.26lcukor something
18:54.31crashanddie__lcuk, you going to come in day-in day-out?
18:54.38X-Fadelcuk: no, don't think so.
18:55.32crashanddie__err, that last one was for X-Fade
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18:55.32X-Fadecrashanddie__: No, I'll stay in a hotel in AMS>
18:55.33crashanddie__k
18:55.51jukuli_Mek: ok thanks for this tip..I think I will do the whole install again and try mounting the drive differently
18:56.13lcukX-Fade, would it be difficult to add?
18:56.42crashanddie__lcuk, why would you want to do it?
18:56.48X-Fadelcuk: No, but not this year for me unfortunately.
18:56.49jukuli_Mek: ah didn't even need to do that :) now at least the install started :)
18:56.50crashanddie__lcuk, I can write you a parser that will get you the URL
18:57.21X-FadeI've just written to -developers that I'm not opening the autobuilder for fremantle today.
18:57.43crashanddie__X-Fade, you must be getting love-mail right about now?
18:57.44lcukok X-Fade understood
18:57.55X-FadeGot more than enough on my plate with that ;)
18:58.12X-Fadecrashanddie__: Read the mail for explanation.
18:58.20lcukcrashanddie__, if this parser sat on liqbase.net and i added a single php file to "get_maemo_org_avatar.php?user=lcuk"
18:58.23crashanddie__X-Fade, not blaming anyone
18:58.33crashanddie__lcuk, that was the whole idea
18:58.47crashanddie__lcuk, or it could return a jpg/png directly, so you don't need to do two calls
18:58.48X-Fadehttp://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-October/021239.html
18:59.01lcukyes i want the image dat
18:59.47crashanddie__lcuk, ok, let me get cracking, you'll have the script tonight
18:59.58crashanddie__lcuk, which version of PHP are you running on .net?
19:00.10lcuki havent the foggiest
19:00.15lcukjust ass baseline php
19:00.19lcukassume even
19:00.28lcukthanks crashanddie__
19:00.31lcukill get on with the rest
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19:06.34mfinklelcuk: did you mention something about hardware acceleration for YUV stuff on the N810?
19:06.46mfinklelcuk: I'm trying to see if we could use it in mozilla
19:07.52RST38hX-Fade: Can we have multiple maintainers / authors in a deb package?
19:08.03X-FadeRST38h: Sure,
19:08.19*** join/#maemo microlith (n=no@c-98-208-76-211.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
19:08.19X-FadeRST38h: Person A, Person B, Person C
19:09.22RST38hX-Fade: Got it
19:09.31*** join/#maemo baze (n=baze@g226214020.adsl.alicedsl.de)
19:10.22lcukmfinkle :)
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19:12.36RST38hOk, wazd is now officially included into maintainers / copyright holder of ati85
19:12.39RST38h=)
19:12.52Stskeepswoo
19:13.01Stskeepsmore targets for legisation? ;)
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19:14.29RST38hSts: you wanted to use the word "litigation"=)
19:14.37Stskeepsyes
19:15.00RST38hSpeaking of which, I probably should not include 83+se and 73 roms into the package
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19:33.12HoneymanHi all. I am trying to install Maemo 5 SDK, and cannot understand how does it resolve the domain names. I started to install it on my laptop in a first network, with DNS .132.15, then moved the laptop to other network, with DNS .1.100 (just before the phase of installing the proprietary packages); but now it seems that it still sends the domain requests to the old DNS server, even though it is not anywhere nearby visible.
19:34.06HoneymanI doublechecked /etc/resolv.conf on both the Debian host and the scratchbox directory, but they both point to the new DNS servers. Why does it send the AAAA requests to the wrong DNS then?
19:37.10MozillionHoneyman: which file in scratchbox did you check (I have (had) similar issues)
19:38.03StskeepsHoneyman: check /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf
19:38.12HoneymanMozillion: being logged into scratchbox, I checked /etc/resolv.conf
19:38.21Mozillionah yes.. that also didn't work for me
19:38.24HoneymanIt contains "nameserver 192.168.1.100" now
19:38.30Mozillionyes, the file Stskeeps mentions
19:38.52Mozillionother issue.. the m5 SDK wiki mentions the tablet-browser-interface package
19:38.57HoneymanOooh.
19:38.58MozillionI have it installed but dpkg -L lists only ./
19:39.05HoneymanStskeeps: you are right
19:39.18StskeepsMozillion: isn't it just a transitional package or something? dunno
19:39.43MozillionStskeeps: it seems so.. but how do I get into the browser
19:39.57HoneymanI need to get better understanding of mapping between host and scratchbox directories...
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19:40.12johnsHi
19:40.19Mozillionfor example since I upgraded my beta2 SDK to the current one.. I have these Facebook/Twitter bookmarks on the desktops, but if I click them, nothing happens
19:40.29StskeepsMozillion: install nokiap-apps
19:40.33Stskeepsnokia-apps
19:40.50MozillionStskeeps: oh, I assumed it would be part of nokia-binaries.. ok
19:41.45Mozillionoops, errors
19:42.05HoneymanStskeeps: any idea how does the /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf gets updated? Strange if it doesn't follow resolv.conf of the host system.
19:42.20StskeepsHoneyman: don't get me started on scratchbox..
19:42.20Stskeeps:P
19:42.43MozillionHoneyman: for me it just doesn't get updated
19:42.53Mozillionmaybe I should hardlink it to /etc/resolv.conf
19:43.07kynkysymlink, mount bind ro?
19:43.10HoneymanI'm thinking of the same too...
19:43.33Honeymankynky: I bet symlink won't work
19:43.45kynkywell mount bind ro will
19:44.17HoneymanBtw, can someone give me a hint why should you use "fakeroot apt-get" instead of "apt-get" inside scratchbox?
19:44.26kynkythat even works across a chroot
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19:45.06Honeymankynky: you mean, apt-get does work across a chroot, do you?
19:45.23HoneymanFunny, but symlinking resolv.conf DID work.
19:45.25kynkymount bind ro works across a chroo
19:45.29kynkyt
19:46.04GeneralAntilleswishes h-a-m would show changelogs.
19:46.18kynkyro = read only, so it can be updated, by even root
19:46.37kynkycant*
19:46.48kynkydamn this keyboard, lol
19:47.39RST38hGoogle Finds DRAM Errors More Common Than Believed
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19:50.37HoneymanI am pretty new to Maemo development (as one might see); can one hint me, what is the normal procedure to keep the SDK always up-to-date - just apt-get update/apt-get upgrade often? Is it enough, does Nokia keep their repos fresh?
19:50.50slonopotamusjohns, are you johnsq?
19:50.54RST38hsb2 gets updated with the rest of ubuntu
19:51.02RST38has long as the correct repo has been added
19:51.14johnsslonopotamus: why?
19:51.37johnsslonopotamus: oops yes. nick was free
19:51.46slonopotamusjohns, your 'why' is ambigious.
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19:53.26HoneymanRST38h: err? I thought that sources.list of scratchbox and host system are separate, and you write the new repo only to the  scratchbox' one
19:53.49RST38hI mean the scratchbox itself
19:54.16slonopotamusjohnsq, xorg 1.7: Support for 32 bit keycodes. Many multimedia keys cannot be processed in current X servers as the core protocol limits keycodes to a maximum of 255. Applications built against XI2 may receive keycodes up to 32 bit.
19:54.35GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N810, ping?
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19:54.58qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: pong
19:55.31GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N810, what do you think about setting up some sort of script or web service that accepts 4 images and spits out a package for the autobuilder?
19:55.50johnsqslonopotamus: that will help X11 handling FN on n810.
19:56.01slonopotamusjohnsq, exactly
19:56.29qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: Sounds beyond my limited knowledge :)
19:56.49lcukgah internet time sucking whore!
19:56.51lcukgnite folks
19:57.05HoneymanRST38h: "deb http://scratchbox.org/debian/ maemo5-sdk main" ?
19:57.22GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N810, OK, how about a .deb framework that we can slap some magic on top of?
19:57.37qwerty12_N810Sounds a bit like py2deb
19:57.37GeneralAntillesIn the style of the startup screen packages
19:57.38johnsqslonopotamus: i tried to build nokia kernel under gentoo, gentoo works find, but maemo reboots random.
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19:58.12johnsqslonopotamus: linux-omap2.6 is currently total broken.
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19:58.14slonopotamusjohnsq, you mean, diablo-sources?
19:58.20johnsqslonopotamus: yes.
19:58.36RST38hHoneyman: deb http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/download/host ubuntu-intrepid free
19:58.46GeneralAntillesSo, my idea is that somebody could go to a form on http://n900backgrounds.com, submit 4 images and the relevant copyright information and it'd spit out a source package that could be sent to the autobuilder
19:58.54slonopotamusjohnsq, you also probably want to put rebuilt modules in initfs?
19:59.07*** join/#maemo trofi_ (n=slyfox@93.85.235.198)
19:59.14*** join/#maemo guysoft42 (n=guysoft@93-172-65-139.bb.netvision.net.il)
19:59.15GeneralAntillesSomebody on that site can then review each package before submitting it to the autobuilder by hand.
19:59.33GeneralAntillesThen they link to the .install from the site as well as the images.
19:59.49*** join/#maemo guysoft42 (n=guysoft@93-172-65-139.bb.netvision.net.il)
19:59.49slonopotamusjohnsq, saw http://www.elinux.org/N800 ?
19:59.57GeneralAntillesNo diddling around with .desktop files, easy installation and removal, etc.
20:00.04johnsqslonopotamus: shouldn't be a problem, if the same version and same API.
20:00.25slonopotamusjohnsq, totally different compiler
20:01.10johnsqslonopotamus: yes, but should have the same API (calling convention...)
20:01.39slonopotamusjohnsq, you wanted to say ABI?
20:01.58waz1has made nice n900 wallpaper :)
20:02.19*** join/#maemo juliank (n=juliank@ubuntu/member/juliank)
20:02.21slonopotamusjohnsq, dunno... that's exactly the source that stock diablo kernel is built from.
20:02.41johnsqslonopotamus: right ABI.
20:02.57fralsanyone got any hints whereabouts i should look for APIs for incoming SMS handling? >_<
20:03.43*** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@cs181192153.pp.htv.fi)
20:03.47johnsqany idea how to start slim login manger together with virtual keyboard?
20:04.52javispedroGeneralAntilles: click on a install file launches h-a-m in fremantle?
20:04.58crashanddie__why is it everytime I develop something for lcuk, and I need some specifics regarding the requirements of the tool, he fucks off
20:05.07GeneralAntillesjavispedro, why wouldn't it?
20:05.11slonopotamusjohnsq, :/ no. i thought you don't want vkb on n810
20:05.26javispedroGeneralAntilles, dunno, the "only from repos" rule.
20:05.29qwerty12_N810crashanddie__: He's a northerner, expect some quirks...
20:05.44GeneralAntillesjavispedro, .install files just point to a specific package in a repo
20:05.47javispedrotalking my ass, I could boot up the sdk and test.
20:05.49GeneralAntillesand make it easy to install things from the browser
20:05.54GeneralAntillesand add the repo if need be.
20:06.38johnsqslonopotamus: later yes, but currently I playing with other things.
20:06.40javispedroGeneralAntilles: ah, confirmed, it works and adds needed repos.
20:07.29GeneralAntillesIs there any way to organize the applications menu?
20:07.37slonopotamusjohnsq, turn into a more generic question: how to run smth when login manager is displayed
20:08.32johnsqslonopotamus: with pure xdm, I know it, but slim is nicer.
20:08.43javispedroGeneralAntilles: I can't even see a way to move icons into the first level apps menu.
20:08.58*** join/#maemo smackpotato (n=user@bas6-sudbury98-1279402773.dsl.bell.ca)
20:09.11Mozillionis the media player supposed to work? :)
20:09.28javispedroin SDK? you must first get pulse working I guess.
20:10.04waz1Stskeeps: http://s52.radikal.ru/i136/0910/f9/90b2d80c98c0.jpg <- test :)
20:10.05javispedrothe transitions are a bit better on the final SDK. thank god, since I could easily hang it.
20:10.26*** join/#maemo jrocha (n=JRocha@40.86.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com)
20:10.32qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: Move a desktop file out of /usr/share/applications/hildon/ and move it back in to make the corresponding application appear on the bottom of the list...
20:10.35RST38hwazd: I am trying to create a deb with the theme
20:10.39Stskeepswaz1: hehe cool
20:10.40RST38hwazd: I cannot :(
20:10.44jrochahi guys
20:10.48qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: I wish I could say I was joking...
20:10.52GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N810, they didn't provide any real organization controls, did they?
20:10.52RST38hwazd: ThemeMaker 1.2.3 appears to be totally broken now
20:10.53GeneralAntillesStupid
20:11.03GeneralAntillesMaybe a good opportunity for a community patch, however.
20:11.15jrochahave anyone tested a GtkTreeView using PyMaemo with the new SDK release?
20:12.09javispedroqwerty12_N810: so there's an order at least. an order that must be stored somewhere... than a hackish "community" app could modify! >:)
20:12.21javispedros/than/that
20:12.31StskeepsRST38h: select the proper background template
20:13.00lizardojrocha: i don't, but are you having any problems with it?
20:13.03qwerty12_N810javispedro: Hehe, at least HD is open-source so I can't imagine it'd take long to find the path of said file :)
20:13.08RST38hSts: I did
20:13.13Stskeepshmm
20:13.14jrochalizardo, hey!
20:13.17RST38hSts:This version does not create proper DEBIAN dir
20:13.28StskeepsRST38h: ah - i just dpkg-deb manually
20:13.34RST38hI tried
20:13.44RST38hit really wants DEBIAN/control etc
20:13.48jrochalizardo, I had a working gtktreeview with NORMAL UI mode and default selection mode (single)
20:14.14jrochalizardo, today I updated SB and now the tree rows only emit row-activated when I press on them twice
20:14.30jrochalizardo, if I press on them only once, they'll appear selected
20:14.38GeneralAntillesjavispedro, hopefully we can get proper directory organization.
20:14.40*** join/#maemo z4chh (n=zach@128.194.74.155)
20:14.47jrochaI wonder if this is GTK+'s problem or pymaemo's
20:14.57javispedromy guess is that may require changing HD.
20:15.12GeneralAntillesA good patch should be fairly easy to get accepted.
20:15.31*** join/#maemo shdb (n=shdb@217-162-129-64.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:16.01lizardojrocha: hmm, I wonder that too... I suggest asking on maemo-developers (with a general , no pymaemo specific topic) to see if some Hildon developer identifies it as a intended change in behavior
20:16.38jrochalizardo, I've already talked with Claudio (on the hildon team)
20:16.51jrochalizardo, he says he haven't seen such problem
20:16.59lizardojrocha: in the meantime, you can file a bug report on the PyMaemo bugzilla with a simple test case, the will help us tracking the bug if it is indeed Python specific (it doesn't look like , I think)(
20:16.59jrochalizardo, I'm gonna try a C example now
20:17.12lizardojrocha: good, let us know of the results :)
20:17.56lizardojrocha: I also usually try a simple C example to make sure it is not a issue with the underlying API
20:19.14jrochalizardo, ok
20:20.03*** join/#maemo Khertan (i=5c8e6769@gateway/web/freenode/x-lswszdsgnmfrfyld)
20:20.05KhertanHi !
20:20.23wazdHeya
20:21.36KhertanI'm looking at the CalDav Protocol ... amazing ... never see a so strange protocol
20:21.42johnsqslonopotamus: latest slim / xorg-server / mozilla all works
20:23.04wazdStskeeps: it's looped, you can crop any part you want for Mer :)
20:24.00jrochalizardo, well, the C gtktreeview works as expected
20:24.07Stskeepswazd: hehe neat
20:24.28jrochalizardo, also note this might be my fault, it is just weird that it was working before and now it isn't
20:27.56Stskeepscan someone tell me what accessibility is for in hildon-desktop?
20:28.47*** join/#maemo tonikitoo (n=tonikito@189.2.128.130)
20:29.20*** join/#maemo promulo (n=romulo@150.165.63.86)
20:32.05KhertanTry 49 to download Benelux Map on Nokia Maps
20:32.06crashanddie__Stskeeps, yes for no
20:32.12Khertangrrrr
20:32.18*** join/#maemo piffey (n=piffey@ppp-69-229-223-186.dsl.renocs.pacbell.net)
20:33.03Khertanhum ...
20:33.15*** part/#maemo piffey (n=piffey@ppp-69-229-223-186.dsl.renocs.pacbell.net)
20:35.34jeremiahVDVsx: Good job today running the meeting. :)
20:36.00VDVsxjeremiah, thanks ;)
20:38.14MozillionI'm I correct in assuming that sound does not work even in the x86 env on amd64?
20:38.19Mozillionam I correct*
20:47.50rdorschHi, my N810 crashes, when I write significant amount data on the external sd card either from the N810 (web download) or the PC when the N810 is connected via USB
20:48.06rdorschI do not see an issue when accessing the SD card directly via a cardreader
20:48.21rdorschIs my N810 hardware broken?
20:50.46rdorschIn syslog I see entries like
20:50.48rdorschOct  6 22:48:25 blackbox kernel: [27541.379962] usb 8-1: USB disconnect, address 9
20:50.48rdorschOct  6 22:48:25 blackbox kernel: [27541.397011] FAT: Directory bread(block 30664) failed
20:51.41johnsqrdorsch: you can check the file system
20:55.11lbtwhere's the party on thursday night then?
20:56.28Khertannone idea
20:56.59Khertanthursday ?
20:57.14Khertanhum ... we didn't talk of the summit
20:57.15Khertan?
20:57.15Khertan:)
20:57.51lbtKhertan: you coming?
20:58.08Khertanat the maemo summit ?
20:58.11Khertanyep
20:58.12lbtyes
20:58.31Khertani m sponsored ... so i come :)
20:58.36*** join/#maemo studen2 (n=Slackarm@41.252.5.168)
20:58.40studen2can anyone help me find driver for "Nokia Connectivity Adapter Cable CA-50"?
20:59.48lbtKhertan: so....
20:59.59lbtwhere's the party on thursday night :D
21:00.07Khertanthurday ?
21:00.15lbtwhen are you arriving
21:00.20lbtstuden2: what devices?
21:00.27Khertanfriday in the morning
21:00.57lbtaww
21:01.03lbtyou'll miss the party
21:01.26Khertan20:00 Maemo Party in FlexBar DJ's Russ Chimes & Grum (check the mixtapes!) visuals by Xploitec VJ's. coordinated by Jussi Mäkinen. It's a public bar and the doors are open to anybody. Our program will go until 23h or so, but the bar is open until really late with good music. Special cocktail hour sponsored by the lovely Skype people. Don't forget the Saturday schedule, though.  :)
21:01.31studen2lbt: I bought this cable to use for my 1208 contacts backup, now i'm stucked finding the driver for it
21:01.34Khertani think it was friday
21:01.44lbtstuden2: on a Windows PC
21:01.52studen2the included cd is not helping doing anything
21:02.00studen2yes windows XP SP2
21:02.10*** join/#maemo Xisdibik (n=Xisdibik@dhcp-sci177-78.sfsu.edu)
21:02.25Khertanlbt: the party is friday not thursday
21:02.31lbtstuden2: this is a linux/maemo dev channel :)
21:02.33Khertanor maybe not an official one ?
21:03.04studen2well i didn't know that however i still assume linux guys can help a lot indeed
21:03.07lbtKhertan: nah, just an early arrivers one
21:03.14Khertanhum ... ok
21:03.28studen2yes khertan the cable is not nokia genuine
21:03.40lbtstuden2: sure... just saying it's not the most likely chan to get help ... good luck :)
21:03.47Stskeepsoh dear
21:03.55Stskeepsi think i just made talk.maemo.org errupt in anger
21:04.21Khertanhum ... i think i should plan my travel from airport to the summit
21:04.25javispedrostylus keyboard!!!
21:04.28javispedrowhat did you do to him!!!!!!!!!
21:04.39luke-jr_studen2: we might be able to help on Linux, if you could be helped
21:04.41javispedroyou killed the stylus keyboard!
21:04.51javispedro;)
21:04.54luke-jr_but as someone here told you last night, your cable is just a cable
21:04.58luke-jr_it doesn't have/need/use drivers
21:05.02Stskeepsjavispedro: please beat up the guy who removed the support for thumb keyboards. either way, what about a full screen stylus kbd?
21:05.08lbtStskeeps: +1
21:05.12rdorschjohnsq: I recreated the fs (mkfs.vfat) and I repartitioned the card.
21:05.13Stskeepserr
21:05.18Stskeepsfor stylus keyboards
21:05.21rdorschboth did not help.
21:05.41rdorschThe n810 still crashes, but in a cardreader I do not see a problem with the card.
21:05.41*** join/#maemo zs (n=zs@188-220-50-10.zone11.bethere.co.uk)
21:05.44javispedroStskeeps: i'll miss it, but i read it that they basically removed the h-i-m windows thus any plugin will need a bit of hard work to port
21:05.49lbtStskeeps: what thread?
21:05.59Stskeepsjavispedro: fremantle ui really does not lend itself to stylus keyboard..
21:06.04johnsqrdorsch: looks like hardware failure, you can still try some other cards.
21:06.13Stskeepsat least the one that squeezes everything
21:06.26javispedroyeah...
21:06.37javispedroah well.
21:06.37studen2yes luke they did BUT i told him i get an unknown driver installation dialog pops up every time i hook up the cable
21:06.37Stskeepsneither does diablo ui, but so it goes
21:06.49javispedrowell, on diablo is usable at least.
21:06.59javispedroon fremantle probably the modest compose email textfield won't fit.
21:07.04Jaffare
21:07.08studen2and i've demostrated genuine nokia ca-53 drivers
21:07.12Stskeepsjavispedro: seriously though, what about fullscreen stylus keyboard?
21:07.28javispedroStskeeps: I don't see usecase for that vs the usual finger one.
21:07.29javispedrowell
21:07.36javispedroother than extra keys and no tabs, which would be nice.
21:07.41*** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil)
21:08.25Stskeepsjavispedro: only usecase i see a problem in is xterm
21:08.26rdorschjohnsq: can I get more debug/diagnosis output from the N810?
21:08.32*** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@95.141.187.81.in-addr.arpa)
21:09.57javispedroxterm also bends itself well for a partial-window stylus-keyb
21:10.23johnsqrdorsch: dmesg, and do dd if=/mmcblk(0 or 1) of=/dev/null than you can see if it happens while read.
21:11.43johnsqrdorsch: badblocks don't know if available on normal device can search bad blocks.
21:12.11studen2so what do you guys think about a cable that pops a "Welcome to the Found New Hardware Wizard"?
21:13.29*** join/#maemo panaggio (n=panaggio@143.106.23.120)
21:13.51javispedrostuden2: a cable is a cable. won't it be the device on the other side of the cable the one "requiring drivers"?
21:15.07javispedrowatches that maemo idiot fan-site out of pure Schadenfreude
21:15.50*** join/#maemo svu (n=svu@89.100.187.26)
21:16.00GeneralAntilleswonders when segphault's new article will be out.
21:16.25RST38hjavis: He is trying to use a usb-to-rs232 cable to talk to a dumb phone
21:16.52RST38hjavis: He has got some no-name cable that is SUPPOSED to be CA-50 replacement. For some reason he can't use drivers that came on the cd
21:16.58javispedroa, *that* cable.
21:17.06javispedrowell, they're pretty generic.
21:17.22RST38hYes, the chipset is made by some UK firm whose name starts with F
21:17.27RST38hno longer remembers
21:17.34JaffaGeneralAntilles: Any joy on the passport or is it now lost in a Kafkaesque nightmare
21:17.35javispedroftdi?
21:17.42javispedrothere are quite a few, not only that one.
21:18.11javispedrobut still less than a dozen.
21:18.18MaceN8x0no touchbook
21:18.20javispedroso it's just a job of getting the vid & pid and googling.
21:18.24GeneralAntillesJaffa, no joy, I got a shipment notification this morning and started making plans to make sure I had my hands on it by tomorrow morning. Turns out they didn't ship it overnight like I paid for and decided to screw me over instead.
21:19.29RST38hjavis: FTDI indeed
21:19.34*** join/#maemo millenomi (n=millenom@93-35-130-27.ip55.fastwebnet.it)
21:19.47RST38husually gets FTDI, then suffers from it
21:19.55*** join/#maemo Tadthebuilder (n=chatzill@nc-65-41-182-68.dyn.embarqhsd.net)
21:19.57javispedrothey had generic drivers back when I cared.
21:19.59SpeedEvilOn the subject of FTDI.
21:20.01Tadthebuilderhey all
21:20.14SpeedEvilhas anyone used the FT2232? The USB2 FIFO chip
21:20.21javispedroin fact I got my m130 to sync in xp64 by using the ftdi driver ;)
21:20.34javispedro(the palm m130 pda)
21:20.34SpeedEviloops
21:20.36SpeedEvilmischan
21:20.37RST38hjavis: They kill Windows wakeup
21:20.47TadthebuilderI have an app Idea that I think could be awesome for the right people....
21:21.04SpeedEvil'I am rich' ?
21:21.04RST38hjavis: Not any more, I guess (hope?), but they did
21:21.06javispedroRST38h: lol. well, half the windows drivers do that either way...
21:21.26RST38hTadthebulder: Cool! Go code it!
21:21.30Tadthebuilderhaha
21:21.38Tadthebuilderactually im wondering if its possible
21:21.43Tadthebuilderand then I might try...
21:22.36Tadthebuilderessentially it would take a subset
21:22.39Tadthebuilder(group)
21:22.55Tadthebuilderof contact and record the time spent conversing with each of those specific contacts in a easily viewed
21:23.00Tadthebuildercontacts*
21:23.04Tadthebuilderdatabase
21:23.30Tadthebuilderthus for someone who needs to record the time spent conversing with clients or what not for tax/boss purposes would be greatly assisted
21:23.33RST38hPossible. Go code it.
21:24.01Tadthebuilderwell first ill need to learn to code
21:24.08Tadthebuilderby the time I finish that the n2000 will be out
21:24.09Tadthebuilder:)
21:24.26jrochahey guys, does anyone know a python app that is already ported to fremantle so I can try it on the new SDK?
21:24.52JaffaGeneralAntilles: And it's not just a reporting problem? Have they confirmed it has been shipped the slow way?
21:24.59Jaffajrocha: Hermes is Python. As is Attitude.
21:25.05JaffagPodder too.
21:25.15JaffaAll of them are in extras-testing or extras-devel
21:25.15GeneralAntillesJaffa, yes, the tracking number confirms it and talking with USPS people confirms it.
21:25.25jrochanice, thank you Jaffa
21:25.26JaffaGeneralAntilles: Arseburgers.
21:25.31GeneralAntillesJaffa, indeed.
21:25.49*** join/#maemo Xisdibik_ (n=Xisdibik@dhcp-sci177-78.sfsu.edu)
21:25.51Khertansnif ... my sdk is scratched
21:25.52Khertan:
21:25.53Khertan:(
21:25.56RST38hLike anybody doubted that....
21:26.02GeneralAntillesEmailed Quim this morning. Cancelled my tickets (hopefully they get something back :/) and opened up my slot.
21:26.19jeremiaharse? burgers?
21:26.20GeneralAntillesHopefully I have something to bank on to get me there next year. :/
21:26.28GeneralAntillessighs.
21:26.34*** join/#maemo __t (n=t@brln-4dbc4040.pool.mediaWays.net)
21:26.39RST38hOn the other hand, just to keep you from believing into free enterprise, FedEx once *lost* my pasport
21:26.50jeremiahGeneralAntilles: oh shit - that sucks
21:27.00Stskeepscan one of the talk.* moderators move the posts into a different thread as i ask in http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=340676&postcount=16 ? :P
21:27.03RST38hLost the passport, the visa, and the airplane tickets.
21:27.36rdorschjohnsq: how would I use dmesg if the device simply crashes (=reboots) when the problem occurs?
21:27.36GeneralAntillesRST38h, I've had more than enough bad experiences with shipping companies to know that you get what you pay for. ;)
21:27.45HoneymanAre there any ideas/news/rumours on PyQT for freemantle?
21:27.51GeneralAntillesIf we wanted fast, friendly, reliable shipping services we'd have to be a lot less cheap.
21:28.17RST38hGeneral: Hey, I paid premium rate, got the tracking number, waited for a week, getting more and more nervous
21:28.55RST38hGeneral: Called them a few times, they marinated me between answering machines, then finally told me they can't track it
21:28.59javispedroStskeeps: explode and you got only 1 and half page of posts? baaah, noob ;)
21:29.14johnsqrdorsch: sorry no idea, than try some other card to see if it is the device or card.
21:29.28Stskeepsjavispedro: i should have mentioned something about clubbing gnus too.
21:29.56javispedroponders how many "revelations" left still exist that could potentially unleash hundred page posts....
21:29.57*** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at)
21:30.03clmntch_j0
21:30.03RST38hok, sleep
21:30.09javispedrobye RST38h
21:30.20wazdCya
21:30.25rdorschjohnsq: thanks.
21:31.04Jaffajavispedro: Did you know that Mameo 5 doesn't support portrait mode!
21:31.13johnsqrdorsch: sorry, but didn't sound good for the device
21:31.14javispedroaaaaaaaaargh to Maemo typo again!
21:31.32javispedroMaemo.
21:31.34javispedroMaemo
21:31.37javispedroMae
21:31.38GeneralAntillesjavispedro, and it's not capacitive!
21:31.40wazdJaffa: noway?!
21:31.46Tadthebuildermameo would be a pretty cool name though
21:31.51javispedroI'm sick. I can't even mispell Maemo properly!!
21:31.51GeneralAntillesjavispedro, I also hear it runs on kittens!
21:32.02javispedroMeam
21:32.02rangeDealbreaker.
21:32.05rdorschjohnsq: not a problem, it still has warranty.
21:32.08JaffaAbsolutely.
21:32.10TadthebuilderI heard that kitten skins were used to make the screen actually
21:32.11rangePuppies, yeah. But kittens?
21:32.25JaffaI don't understand how Nokia could be so stupid as to do this! It's a dealbreaker for me and *everyone* I know.
21:32.27javispedroGeneralAntilles: no wai!!!
21:32.45*** join/#maemo Pio (n=sean@207.181.14.102)
21:32.53HoneymanPyqt page seems a bit sleepy...
21:32.55GeneralAntillesrange, I'm pretty sure Quim spits on them before they're processed, too.
21:33.02javispedroit doesn't come with a Super Mario World wallpapear!! ----> I'm not buying.
21:33.08KhertanEstimated Fare using meter at 08:40  Distance: 16.66 km. | Duration: 22 min.  first 2000 meters 7.50 €  14.66 km. x 2.20 € per km 32.27 €  Total 39.77 €
21:33.10GeneralAntillesOh but it does!
21:33.11KhertanOMG !
21:33.15zerojayJaffa: Huh?
21:33.20Khertantaxi is expensive at Amsterdamn
21:33.22GeneralAntillesloves the Super Mario wallpaper.
21:33.23Khertan!
21:33.32zerojayGeneralAntilles: The Mario World one?
21:33.35GeneralAntillesKhertan, airport to hotel?
21:33.46Tadthebuilderthe Mario world wallpaper is awesome
21:33.52zerojayI just saw it earlier today. I'm using SMB1 wallpaper. ;)
21:33.52javispedroGeneralAntilles: pretty cool indeed. Built it into the device bootloader so it can't be reflashed out!
21:34.10Khertanairport to WesterGasFabriek
21:34.18GeneralAntillesKhertan, the train is, like, €3.60. You need to get off at Central station which is about a block from the hotel.
21:34.19GeneralAntillesAh
21:34.28GeneralAntillesWell, you could take the train and then a bus.
21:34.30wazdI love mine wallpaper, all other suck!!111)
21:34.38GeneralAntillesOr the train and a taxi, I suppose.
21:34.39Khertanyep ... i ll do that
21:34.50Khertantrain then bus
21:34.57Khertanjust surprize by the price
21:35.04javispedronotices he could reveal all those "revelations" into a idiot maemo fanboy forum whose members still don't know "it's not exactly like symbian"....
21:35.09javispedro*grin*
21:35.23Tadthebuilderdo it
21:35.44javispedroit's not capacitive! only the phone works in portrait! no stylus keyboard! no mms!
21:35.48*** join/#maemo chmac (n=chmac@cpe-72-229-238-150.nyc.res.rr.com)
21:35.59KhertanGeneralAntilles: did you know how time it s take to go to the Central station ?
21:36.08GeneralAntillesKhertan, think it's about 20 minutes.
21:36.15GeneralAntillesMaybe less
21:36.21Khertanhum ... not so bad
21:36.21GeneralAntillessighs again.
21:36.23Khertanok
21:36.37Khertantaxi seems to be 16min :)
21:37.08Khertanas i'm arriving Friday at 8h40
21:37.08*** join/#maemo dottedmag (n=dottedma@91.197.127.125)
21:37.08Stskeepsand 50 eur or something equally insane
21:37.08Tadthebuilderyou know whats disappointing me?
21:37.20Tadthebuildereverything
21:37.39javispedroTadthebuilder: dealbreaker! not buying?
21:37.43*** part/#maemo df00z (n=diefool@cpe-67-240-159-6.rochester.res.rr.com)
21:37.48Tadthebuilderexactly
21:37.57Tadthebuilderthe fact that linux is evil and its based on linux is a deal breaker!!!!
21:38.07Tadthebuilderhow dare they open the source!!
21:38.15SpeedEvilponders Manic Miner wallpaper.
21:38.18GeneralAntillesThey're all just justifying not being able to afford it. :P
21:38.34javispedroGeneralAntilles++
21:38.49Tadthebuilderpersonally I just say im not going to be able to afford it :)
21:39.03JaffaFFS. "Media format not supported". I'd hoped I'd seen the last of that damned thing.
21:39.27GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to put together the pano source package template.
21:39.32GeneralAntillesnominates javispedro.
21:39.39GeneralAntillesJaffa, h.264 support seems . . . limited.
21:39.48javispedropacks stuff and hides in alaska
21:40.31GeneralAntillesMuahaha! I know people in Alaska. No hiding there!
21:40.38JaffaGeneralAntilles: This is bog-standard MPEG-4/DivX
21:40.52Jaffa1024x760. 5 fps. No audio.
21:41.03GeneralAntillesAh, interesting.
21:41.06javispedroJaffa: does it work in PC gstreamer?
21:41.18Jaffajavispedro: It works in totem yeah
21:41.20GeneralAntillesI've had great luck with $RANDOM source minus fansubs.
21:41.34JaffaNo probs. Looked really good.
21:41.34javispedro:S
21:41.57JaffaYay, my video's on my device so I can practice on the pllane at least.
21:42.03javispedrogoes to play with the nokia-apps in the SDK. and drool.
21:42.12JaffaIt looks like it's running Eclipse. Teehee
21:42.39zerojayOh, the Nokia apps are in the SDK now?
21:42.49Jaffazerojay: yup
21:42.50javispedrozerojay: didn't you get the memo? :)
21:43.03Jaffajavispedro: Fancy trying Hermes in the SDK, now it's got Contacts? :-)
21:43.08zerojaylol... too busy on the actual device. ;P
21:43.17Jaffaponders building the pure-Python version.
21:43.24javispedrodamn conspirators :(
21:43.38javispedrozerojay: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK/Discover_Maemo_5
21:43.48javispedroeverything shown there is on sdk
21:44.03javispedroI wonder why Nokia did that....
21:44.28javispedrobut pretty cool either way and way above what I expected :)
21:45.40*** join/#maemo shdb (n=shdb@217-162-129-64.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:45.44Khertanoh ... i ve miss too the final sdk news !
21:46.30*** join/#maemo fnordianslip (n=fnoridan@212.183.140.19)
21:47.13Khertanapt get dist-upgrade failed
21:47.14Khertangrrr
21:47.36GeneralAntillesYeah, gstreamer packages cause trouble.
21:47.40GeneralAntillesHave to start over, apparently.
21:48.08javispedroyeah, and also there's new hacks for /home/user and /opt.
21:48.09Khertanfuck !
21:48.18Khertan<PROTECTED>
21:48.20Tadthebuilderhttp://www.churchdb.org/   would it be possible to set that up an lamp server the n800?
21:48.44KhertanTadthebuilder: of course ... but nginx is recommended
21:48.54Khertanwith php5
21:48.56Tadthebuildernot sure what that is?
21:49.04Tadthebuilderive set up a lamp server before
21:49.06Tadthebuilderon my ubuntu desktop
21:49.13jeremiahnginx is a web server
21:49.14*** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@32.84-49-132.nextgentel.com)
21:49.15Khertannginx ... an other http server
21:49.16Tadthebuilderah okay
21:49.24jeremiahlike apache, but with less documentation P
21:49.29Khertanuse less memory than apache
21:49.34Tadthebuilderi really just need something to track visitation recording....that might be a bit over kill...
21:49.42jeremiahKhertan: Well, it does much less too
21:49.49zerojayHmm... would anyone be interested in a NES Metroid wallpaper?
21:49.54Khertanis fastest ... but magement of multi connection is worse
21:50.02Khertanjeremiah: of course
21:50.21KhertanTadthebuilder: so apache is overkill
21:50.23Khertan;)
21:50.26Khertanuse nginx
21:50.27Tadthebuilderthinks maybe I should over a bounty
21:50.29Tadthebuilderwell
21:50.35Tadthebuilderi think both might be over kill
21:50.36Tadthebuilder...
21:50.47jeremiahThere is lighttpd too
21:50.52Tadthebuilderlike how hard would it be to have a contact like program where you can click the person name and record when you talked to them?
21:50.55Khertanor python :)
21:50.57jeremiahThough I don't know if anyone has ported that to maemo
21:51.07GeneralAntilleszerojay, anything retro gaming I'll go for. :P
21:51.07Tadthebuilderand then view all those meetings in a list
21:51.16zerojayGeneralAntilles: You got it.
21:51.26*** join/#maemo Firebird (n=Firebird@pool-138-88-201-253.res.east.verizon.net)
21:51.33Khertanso no way to upgrade the beta sdk to final sdk ?
21:53.03Tadthebuilderill send whoever makes above mentioned program for the n800 35 USD
21:54.12Khertanit will be difficult as n800 isn't a phone
21:54.13Khertan:)
21:54.30Tadthebuilderthe other program
21:54.35Tadthebuilderi will type in the data
21:54.44Tadthebuilderjust have like a database of contacts
21:54.57Tadthebuilderthat I can click on and add information concerning what and how and when I contacted that person
21:55.05Tadthebuilderso that I have a list for each person
21:55.40Jaffafatal^: Vala 0.7.7 is in Diablo extras-devel and going through autobuilder for fremantle.
21:55.44Tadthebuilder(I know the n800 is not a phone I have one for two years and I love it)
21:56.14Khertanis fighting with his SDK ...
21:56.48Khertannice loop ... dpkg pre install script require dpkg
21:56.50Khertangrrr
21:59.48*** join/#maemo blassey (n=blassey@c-71-232-20-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
22:00.38Khertanshit ... i take more time trying to make that sdk working that using it to dev
22:00.48*** join/#maemo hunter007 (n=elias@200.121.168.146)
22:01.20Khertangrrrr will simply rm it ... !
22:01.23Khertangood night
22:01.24Khertanbye
22:03.21javispedroby
22:04.47javispedroloves the "Write message" [sic] HildonBanner while trying to send an empty message in SMS app.
22:04.56javispedrois that a new writing style? :
22:04.57javispedro:D
22:05.41javispedronot to mention the "Add recipient"  counterpart message...
22:05.51Tadthebuilderhttp://civicrm.org/ how difficult would a port of that be?
22:05.52zerojay... yeaaaah.
22:06.05zerojayIt's stuff like that which is making me push for community translation.
22:06.14zerojayWhich... well... kind of already happens a little bit.
22:06.29Tadthebuilderwhat is that from?
22:06.31javispedrohopefully.
22:06.46javispedroTadthebuilder, the what?
22:07.17Tadthebuilderthat phrase "write mesage hildonbanner while trying to send an empty message in sms app
22:07.29javispedroTadthebuilder: final SDK. didn't you get the memo either?
22:07.38Tadthebuildernot a developer...:)
22:07.46Tadthebuilderdont ask why im in the developer irc
22:07.55javispedrowhat developer irc?
22:08.00*** join/#maemo Flyser (n=flyser@unaffiliated/flyser)
22:08.00Tadthebuilderisnt that what this is?
22:08.06Tadthebuilderi feel like im the only person who isnt a developer
22:08.08Tadthebuilder...
22:08.10Tadthebuilder:P)
22:08.20javispedroTadthebuilder: 335 total users. you're not the only one.
22:08.25Tadthebuildertrue
22:08.43zerojayfires up Maelstrom... good ole Maelstrom.
22:09.21Tadthebuildercivicrm says that it can be ran without a network
22:09.26Tadthebuilderon a single device
22:09.36Tadthebuilderwould it be possible to get it working an n800?
22:09.40zerojayAww... controls don't work. :/
22:09.47GeneralAntillesTadthebuilder, this is anything Maemo
22:09.52Tadthebuilderhttp://civicrm.org/download
22:09.53javispedroTadthebuilder: given enough time and resources...
22:09.55johnsqTadthebuilder: just try a simple editor for your task.
22:10.05Tadthebuilderthats going to be very repetitive :)
22:10.16TadthebuilderI was hoping to not have to type names in every time haha
22:10.46javispedroeither way civicrm is anything but lightweight, seems.
22:10.51johnsqTadthebuilder: good editors have interactive search.
22:10.57Tadthebuildertrue
22:10.59Tadthebuildergood point
22:11.03Tadthebuilderyeah its not lightweight
22:11.04Tadthebuildernot at all
22:11.16Tadthebuilderany suggested editor for n800?
22:12.34johnsqTadthebuilder: maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/vim/
22:13.04Tadthebuilderill check it out
22:13.11MaceN8x0watching defying gravity
22:13.20Tadthebuilderive used vim before
22:13.23Tadthebuilderits command line only right?
22:13.41Tadthebuilderbut now that I think about it It may be perfect for my needs
22:14.10johnsqTadthebuilder: no, i don't know if the maemo version includes or is only the gtk version.
22:14.36Tadthebuilderincludes what?
22:14.49johnsqTadthebuilder: the gui version
22:14.58Tadthebuilderah okay
22:15.21*** join/#maemo svu (n=svu@89.100.187.26)
22:15.55*** join/#maemo penguinbait (n=mlewis@c-98-209-247-133.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
22:17.00Tadthebuilderone day im going to need to learn how to code
22:17.05*** join/#maemo ad-n770 (n=somebody@24.Red-80-26-22.staticIP.rima-tde.net)
22:17.07TadthebuilderI think it would help my productivity...
22:17.12Tadthebuildernot sure if im smart enough though
22:17.15Firebirdin what way
22:17.29Tadthebuilderwould it help my productivity?
22:17.31*** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=Valerio@bl5-138-67.dsl.telepac.pt)
22:17.33Tadthebuilderor in what way am I not smart enough?
22:17.37Firebirdthe first
22:17.47Tadthebuilderwell If I thought of something I had to do repeatedly
22:17.53Tadthebuilderthat could be done smoother with the help of a program
22:18.02TadthebuilderI could program it thus making more efficient in the long run
22:18.04Firebirdcoding has actually decreased my productivity in other things... especially school
22:18.19TadthebuilderI could see that being true also
22:18.34johnsqFirebird: true :9
22:18.42FirebirdI totally messed up the first week of school :/
22:18.55Tadthebuilderwhat level school?
22:19.05zerojayGeneralAntilles: You know what's great about using NES games for N900 backgrounds?
22:19.27FirebirdTadthebuilder, junior year of high school, "the only year that counts"
22:19.33Tadthebuilderoh
22:19.37sheepbatyou have an NES emulator running in the background, zerojay?
22:19.40TadthebuilderI though that was the first years of a masters degree... haha
22:19.47zerojayGeneralAntilles: NES resolution = 256x240. 240 = 2x... perfect for backgrounds. :)
22:19.47Firebirdheh
22:19.48javispedrozerojay: that you can enjoy the fine typeface nintendo uses for their cease& desist letters? >:)
22:19.49rmtTadthebuilder, ThinkingRock is good for productivity.
22:20.00Tadthebuilderwhats thinking rock?
22:20.01zerojaysheepbat: I could, but no.
22:20.10zerojayjavispedro: Pfffft. :)
22:20.13rmtTadthebuilder, time/task/life management
22:20.17GeneralAntillesHehe
22:20.20*** join/#maemo schnebeck_ (n=quassel@dslc-082-082-177-121.pools.arcor-ip.net)
22:20.26Tadthebuilderi definitly need that
22:20.29TadthebuilderI am so disorganized
22:20.35Tadthebuilderand its hurting
22:20.35Tadthebuilder...
22:20.46javispedrozerojay: 239 pixels tall</nitpick>.
22:21.12zerojayIf GIMP will listen to me, anyways.
22:21.41javispedroeither way a 1 px line is like... 0.1mm in n900?
22:21.48Tadthebuilderwhere can I find a manual for vim?
22:22.05johnsqTadthebuilder: vim.org
22:22.34javispedroare you completely sure you should introduce him to vim at this age? :D
22:23.00johnsqjavispedro: i have eaten vi with the mother milk :)
22:23.02Tadthebuildergraphics who needs em
22:23.25Tadthebuilderif I can handle drwaf fortress and nethack I should be able to handle a graphicless text editor right?
22:23.36javispedroI guess that's the spirit.
22:23.41SpeedEvilddddddd
22:23.46SpeedEvilDddd
22:23.57SpeedEvilponders how many will get the subtle error.
22:24.02lbtImportant Summit Announcement : coming soon to http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/
22:24.05Tadthebuilderwhy no thinkingrock for n800
22:24.25javispedrowindows mobile is dead!
22:24.38javispedroas much as the poort palmos.
22:24.40javispedrorejoice!
22:24.58TadthebuilderI refuse to rejoice at the failure of others :)
22:25.06Tadthebuilderthats like laughing at the kid who gets tripped and dropps his food
22:25.10Tadthebuilderall of the cafeteria
22:25.13Tadthebuilderits not his fault he is clumsy
22:25.22GeneralAntilleslol
22:25.36GeneralAntillesFailure in business is a natural part of the economic process. ;)
22:25.44GeneralAntillesIt keeps things efficient.
22:25.49javispedroTadthebuilder: what, you never watched roadrunner vs coyote episodes?
22:25.52GeneralAntillesWhich is why bailouts are so ridiculous.
22:26.28Tadthebuilderno argument from this almost libertarian
22:26.54Tadthebuilderah thinkingrock is java
22:26.58zerojayGeneralAntilles: Hope you like Brinstar.
22:26.59Tadthebuilderanything similar not java?
22:27.03*** part/#maemo hunter007 (n=elias@200.121.168.146)
22:27.14GeneralAntilleszerojay, we need to con somebody into setting up a package system for these panos.
22:27.39zerojayYeah, definitely.
22:27.44javispedrowhat you mean?
22:27.48javispedroa template packaging?
22:28.06GeneralAntillesjavispedro, so we can distribute pano backgrounds without having to explain to people where they need to put 5 files.
22:28.34javispedroso something automated and not requiring the sdk I guess.
22:28.38GeneralAntillesjavispedro, the idea would be a source package template that we can connect a web form to to generate stuff that can be thrown at the autobuilder.
22:28.47*** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=rsalveti@187.78.196.26)
22:29.28GeneralAntillesSo, somebody goes to http://n900backgrounds.com, clicks "Submit background", selects "Panoramic" uploads the 4 images, enters description/copyright information and then the script generates a source package that a moderator can review and then submit to the autobuilder.
22:29.47*** part/#maemo ad-n770 (n=somebody@24.Red-80-26-22.staticIP.rima-tde.net)
22:29.59Tadthebuilderrmt: can you verify no spyware, adware, malware, in thinkingrock? (I like to be sure on non open source software
22:30.05GeneralAntillesFinally, the .install file gets linked from the site and all that has to happen to install a background is for the user to tap the nice green "Install" arrow on their device.
22:30.20Tadthebuildergeneral this is why we call you general
22:30.50javispedrosounds like a two-day coding session :D
22:31.58GeneralAntillesThat's His Lordship and Imperial Highness Emperor Field Marshal Antilles to you.
22:32.45Tadthebuildernah
22:32.51TadthebuilderIm an america...dont like royalty :)
22:32.59Tadthebuilderalso
22:33.03Tadthebuilderdont like spelling write
22:33.05Tadthebuilderright
22:33.07Tadthebuilder*
22:33.17TadthebuilderIm an america and so can you
22:33.29dottedmagTadthebuilder: thinkingrock is CDDL
22:33.52Tadthebuilderah thanks
22:34.00Tadthebuilderi feel better now :)
22:34.04zerojayGeneralAntilles: Oh yeah... the .desktop file also.
22:34.36GeneralAntilleszerojay, it wouldn't be so bad if we could make the .desktop visible, but it'll clutter up Images awfully quickly.
22:34.42javispedrodesktop file for what?
22:34.48GeneralAntillesPanoramic backgrounds.
22:35.00javispedroah, they do need a desktop file too. sorry.
22:35.06zerojaySets all four backgrounds at the same time, I guess.
22:35.14GeneralAntilleshttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=340629&postcount=51
22:35.15javispedromakes sense
22:35.39GeneralAntillesInvisble .desktop files will need to be installed to $MYDOCS/.images/
22:35.51zerojayGeneralAntilles: Thanks.
22:36.22javispedro$MYDOCS? it won't enumerate the usual /usr/share/ locations?
22:36.33zerojayGeneralAntilles: So it's just supposed to be [themename].desktop then?
22:36.35GeneralAntillesjavispedro, good question, I haven't investigated.
22:36.45GeneralAntillesjavispedro, but, yeah, better to stick it there if it's a .deb install.
22:36.55Tadthebuilderhow many people have n900s at the moment?
22:37.06GeneralAntilleszerojay, yeah, but invisible.
22:38.47lbthttp://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/
22:39.05lbtGeneralAntilles: especially for you!
22:39.11*** join/#maemo aakashd (n=aakashd@nat/mozilla/x-urvphpaczojrrjqe)
22:39.21GeneralAntillesOK, somebody figure out where nseries_0[14].jpg are hiding.
22:39.34GeneralAntilleslbt, wont be there.
22:39.54lbtoh?
22:39.59zerojaybbs
22:40.05GeneralAntillesScrewed over by the State Department.
22:40.12GeneralAntillesPassport was a total clusterfuck.
22:40.35lbtoh bollocks
22:40.37lbtsorry mate
22:40.42GeneralAntillesYeah. :\
22:40.50Firebirdwhat... maemo5 uses pulseaudio?
22:41.06SpeedEvilpasses GeneralAntilles a large wheel of cheese to console him.
22:41.08Firebirdbrings out the firing squad
22:41.13Tadthebuilder(they thought he was trying to smuggle drugs back in the contry)
22:41.13javispedroFirebird: yes
22:41.17Tadthebuildercountry*
22:41.27Firebirdpulseaudio is some crap :/
22:41.27lbtI saw some chat on quick passport applications - no time?
22:41.57GeneralAntilleslbt, I expedited it which should've taken 1-3 weeks.
22:42.01javispedroGeneralAntilles: /usr/share/themes/alpha/backgrounds/wallpaper{1,2,3,4}.png
22:42.03GeneralAntillesThat started 7 weeks ago.
22:42.05Tadthebuilderis confused by vim
22:42.08GeneralAntillesIt shipped this morning.
22:42.20javispedroand /usr/share/themes/alpha/backgrounds/theme_bg.desktop
22:42.32GeneralAntillesWhich could've worked out, but unfortunately they decided to ship it standard instead of overnight like I paid for.
22:42.36ShadowJKFirebird: it's better than esd...
22:42.53FirebirdI like pure alsa
22:43.30ShadowJKAlthough admittedly developers have had 10 years to familiarize themselves with esd's bugs and work around them somewhat. Pulse is still adding bugs :)
22:43.30javispedroFirebird: dmix is crap, so since dsp no longer mixes...
22:43.42ShadowJKYeah dmix is worse than pulse
22:43.49ShadowJKLess predictable
22:43.49luke-jr_...
22:43.50GeneralAntillesjavispedro, OK, I see the .desktop there, where to stick add-on backgrounds then?
22:43.57*** join/#maemo crashanddie__ (n=crashand@host86-168-191-181.range86-168.btcentralplus.com)
22:44.02luke-jr_isn't mixing just A+B+C / 3?
22:44.02javispedrodunno, I am not a gtk theming guru... :P
22:44.14GeneralAntillesjavispedro, what good are you, then?
22:44.20javispedroluke-jr_:  I wish.
22:44.32javispedroGeneralAntilles: It's a trap!
22:45.07johnsqluke-jr_: you must also handle clipping
22:45.31luke-jr_johnsq: an average is never larger than the inputs...
22:45.41ShadowJKAnd you must report accurate  buffer fill status to all apps involved
22:45.49ShadowJKAnd accurate delay information
22:46.02luke-jr_there should be no delay :/
22:46.33*** part/#maemo kr1shnak (n=kr1shnak@host86-161-83-169.range86-161.btcentralplus.com)
22:46.36johnsqbut who needs mixing? kill all the gimmicks and use real apps!
22:46.42ShadowJKThere is a buffer in sound chip, in ram, in mixer app. 3 sources of delay already.
22:47.03SpeedEvilluke-jr_: an average doesn't work
22:47.14SpeedEvilluke-jr_: or your sound gets quieter as you mix more sources
22:47.26luke-jr_ShadowJK: nooooooooo :(
22:47.36luke-jr_ShadowJK: delay means phone is impossible...
22:47.41luke-jr_so N900 can't have delay
22:47.55*** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=CBabbage@uhartford236105.hartford.edu)
22:47.56SpeedEvilYou're assuming the audio goes through the SoC
22:48.00SpeedEvilthis is probably not true.
22:48.03javispedrodelay makes nothing impossible, unpredictable delay does.
22:48.12luke-jr_SpeedEvil: then how would you use a Bluetooth headset?
22:48.27luke-jr_javispedro: delay makes real-time two-way audio (eg, phones) impossible
22:48.37javispedroI don't <5 second latency.
22:48.40javispedroer..
22:48.45javispedroI don't need < 5 seconds latency.
22:48.47SpeedEvilluke-jr_: in one phone I'm familiar with, the bluetooth headset is wired to the sound mixer chip
22:48.54SpeedEvilluke-jr_: excessive delay
22:48.56Tadthebuilderthinks he finally got into vim to type...
22:49.06SpeedEvilluke-jr_: you get 10ms in real life just by being 3m away
22:49.43luke-jr_SpeedEvil: bluetooth headsets are wireless
22:50.03SpeedEvilluke-jr_: to restate, the bluetooth wireless module is wired...
22:50.09javispedroretracts the < 5 second assumption after doing a reality check.
22:50.24*** join/#maemo m_sparks (n=user@adsl-76-254-40-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
22:50.24ShadowJKPhone has delay
22:50.41ShadowJKJust take two phones, call yourself
22:50.52ShadowJKAnd listen to the delay :)
22:51.01Tadthebuilder(I dont know if....vim is going to work for my needs.
22:51.09Tadthebuilderim still gonna try though(
22:51.31ShadowJKWith phone the delay matters less because you dont need lipsync with video..
22:51.34SpeedEvilIn 'real' life, you have four GSM codec delays in the signal path
22:51.41GeneralAntillesTadthebuilder, vim is a life skill.
22:51.47SpeedEvil(each way)
22:52.09Tadthebuilderyeah but I should probbaly learn how to use it with a real keyboard
22:52.12Tadthebuilderbefore an on screen one
22:52.12*** part/#maemo m_sparks (n=user@adsl-76-254-40-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
22:52.13ShadowJKUnless you're doing video calls, in which case you only need same delay on video, and it's fine... Where accurate delay reporting need comes in
22:52.40SpeedEvilIIRC it's on the order of 250ms or so when it starts becoming awkward.
22:53.18*** join/#maemo m_sparks (n=user@adsl-76-254-40-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
22:53.34Tadthebuildercreated and named a file!!!!
22:54.24luke-jr_ShadowJK: no delay
22:55.30luke-jr_normal phones use the same wire pair for both directions
22:55.30SpeedEvilluke-jr_: with a conventional phone, the delay will be single digit milliseconds
22:55.30SpeedEvilluke-jr_: however, mobiles do not
22:55.30SpeedEvilluke-jr_: for example - a typical GSM call goes:
22:55.46MaceN8x0i ordered a pizza
22:55.51MaceN8x0and am starving
22:55.53luke-jr_MaceN8x0: SHARE IT
22:55.56GeneralAntillesHigh five!
22:56.01MaceN8x0waiting on it
22:56.07crashanddie__SpeedEvil, single digit millisecond for voice transfer for a conventional phone?
22:56.11javispedro"A typical GSM call goes like: 'I ordered a pizza and am starting'".
22:56.17SpeedEvilluke-jr_: mic->A/D->GSM codec -> radio + errors ->GSM codec ->IDSN between base-stations -> GSM codec->RF + errors ->GSM codec ->D/A ->speaker
22:56.41SpeedEvilWhere the codecs may not all be the same type
22:57.10GeneralAntillesmutters at his uncooperative turkey sandwich.
22:57.12crashanddie__SpeedEvil, 10 miles even at the speed of light is 18 milliseconds
22:57.36javispedroimagines A/D conversions at the speed of light
22:57.59javispedroor gsm encoding, for the matter.
22:58.04luke-jr_how about my cell phone that has analog?
22:58.06ShapeshifterI raise nanoseconds
22:58.14SpeedEvilcrashanddie__: 10m - sound
22:58.30SpeedEvilluke-jr_: In the UK?
22:58.38luke-jr_SpeedEvil: no clue
22:58.38crashanddie__SpeedEvil, what were you refering to as "single digit milliseconds"?
22:58.40SpeedEvilwas all shut off ages ago
22:58.57SpeedEvilcrashanddie__: phone-normal-phone in the same exchange area
22:59.07crashanddie__that's what I said
22:59.09SpeedEvilcrashanddie__: it's not 'instant' anymore as it's digitised
22:59.28crashanddie__well, even if it's analogue over a copper wire, going nearly at the speed of light, is not instant
22:59.40TadthebuilderHey VIM is not so hard...I figured out some stuff about it
22:59.57Tadthebuilderim sure ill pick up future things that will help more
22:59.57Tadthebuilderbut
22:59.57Tadthebuilderhey
22:59.57TadthebuilderI can edit text...
23:00.02Shapeshiftercrashanddie__: mhh but for the signal travelling at the speed of light, it feels instant ;)
23:00.09SpeedEvilThe first paper I found says 191ms for GSM network delay
23:00.12SpeedEvilwhich seems sane
23:01.21Shapeshiftermeant to say "to the signal it feels instant"
23:01.32GeneralAntillesTadthebuilder, the more important part is that now you can edit text on nearly any *nix system you encounter.
23:01.44Tadthebuilderwell
23:01.51Tadthebuilderah
23:01.51Tadthebuilderthat makes sense
23:01.59TadthebuilderI can edit text in gedit on my ubuntu box :)
23:02.20crashanddie__SpeedEvil, oh, my bad, I misread that in units, 10 miles at light of speed is actually .05 ms, or 53k ns
23:02.25Tadthebuilderthe most important part is I can use this to do what I need until I can talk someone into taking my bounty...
23:02.32VulcanisI can edit text in googledocs on ANY operating system with a web interface.  That doesn't mean its the smart thing to do, Tadthebuilder.
23:02.46Tadthebuildertrue
23:02.48Tadthebuilderunderstood
23:02.58SpeedEvilcrashanddie__: by 'instant' - I mean that for a single-exchange call in 1980 or so, the delay may be around 120us or so.
23:03.09SpeedEvilcrashanddie__: now, it's going to be several times more than that
23:03.24SpeedEvilcrashanddie__: GSM is a couple of orders of magnitude worse
23:03.26crashanddie__does that include the operator switching cables?
23:04.23crashanddie__isn't that like saying that adsl is worse than telegram, because the information is modulated and demodulated constantly?
23:04.23Tadthebuilder(what the escape key onthe n800? to get me out of insert mode?)
23:04.36crashanddie__Tadthebuilder, should be on screen in the console
23:04.41javispedrothe back key also.
23:04.49Tadthebuilderfound it
23:04.51Tadthebuilderthanks
23:04.58Tadthebuilderim such a newb...
23:05.00SpeedEvilIt's a valid point - the delay with modern systems is larger for a number of reasons. For most applications this isn't an issue.
23:05.23crashanddie__SpeedEvil, the main difference is that the amount of information that can be passed through is a lot higher
23:05.32crashanddie__SpeedEvil, meaning latency becomes less relevant than throughput
23:05.44SpeedEvilNo - I mean for voice calls
23:05.51SpeedEvilFor which throughput has not changed
23:05.51crashanddie__my point exactly
23:05.57crashanddie__actually, it has
23:06.02crashanddie__the sound quality has increased drastically
23:06.08crashanddie__just look at skype
23:06.27*** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@nat/ibm/x-ekrmbsnhynbizywc)
23:06.31SpeedEvilthroughput - words/minute - remains constant though.
23:06.35crashanddie__stereo phone conversations? Rather than the crackling of other people's voices on your conversation?
23:07.05crashanddie__you're being intentionally daft, argument is over from this point
23:07.15SpeedEvilThe UK never really suffered from that that much.
23:07.27SpeedEvilbut...
23:08.00luke-jr_Vulcanis: no, you can't
23:08.01luke-jr_Vulcanis: Google apps are so buggy and broken that they only work in Firefox and IE
23:08.05luke-jr_and maybe Safari
23:08.10luke-jr_(and obviously Chrome)
23:08.17Tadthebuilderwait
23:08.28crashanddie__luke-jr_, and that doesn't "ANY" operating system, how exactly?
23:08.37Tadthebuildersafari, firefox, Ie, and Chrome = 99.99 percent of all internet users right?
23:08.38luke-jr_crashanddie__: hm?
23:08.55crashanddie__unless you coun't CP/M, but he did specify "any operating system with a web interface"
23:08.57luke-jr_Tadthebuilder: irrelevant
23:09.07crashanddie__where the hell did that apostrophe come from
23:09.15luke-jr_Konqueror is better than all 4
23:09.19Tadthebuilderwhat moden os cannot run atleast one of those four?
23:09.50VulcanisDOS
23:09.50crashanddie__all of them, no?
23:09.51Vulcanisuh
23:09.53luke-jr_Tadthebuilder: anything KDE-based where you don't have access
23:09.55Vulcanisold ones
23:10.23luke-jr_or where you don't want to run non-native apps
23:10.49luke-jr_"works for 99% of idiots" is not "standards compliant and works right"
23:10.59luke-jr_especially when the former means Google just gives each browser different code
23:11.12luke-jr_eg, ActiveX on IE
23:11.17crashanddie__luke-jr_, you do realise there's a Qt port of Firefox?
23:11.28Tadthebuilderum
23:11.32TadthebuilderI can run firefox inside of KDe
23:11.42crashanddie__Tadthebuilder, he means "exclusive based on Qt"
23:11.46luke-jr_crashanddie__: yes, not officially supported and not actually shipped with any distro
23:11.58crashanddie__Tadthebuilder, because IIRC, Firefox isn't using Qt or blablabla
23:12.02luke-jr_Tadthebuilder: not if you lack a compiler or root
23:12.07GAN800rawr distro wars go!
23:12.23luke-jr_plus, Firefox is a resource hog
23:12.24TadthebuilderI have konquerer but I cannot stand
23:12.27Tadthebuilderit so never use it
23:12.35crashanddie__Tadthebuilder, he's just annoyed that even though he has 5 gazillion tons of RAM, he has to use an app that actually has dependencies, OMG
23:12.45GAN800Firefox gets us cheap RAM.
23:12.45Tadthebuilderhaha
23:12.56TadthebuilderI would like a browser that uses less ram
23:13.01Tadthebuilderonly 512 mrgs
23:13.02luke-jr_Konqueror is pretty ideal
23:13.07GAN800links
23:13.16crashanddie__GAN800, GET
23:13.21luke-jr_links is decent for "Web 1.0"
23:13.27crashanddie__links is such a memory hog
23:13.31luke-jr_wtf?
23:13.38crashanddie__GET never uses more than 600k of RAM
23:13.51GAN800Tadthebulder, why not spend the $20 to get another stick of 1GB? ;)
23:13.51luke-jr_crashanddie__: wow, that's a lot for something like GET
23:13.52crashanddie__links easily goes over 1.2 megs
23:14.07luke-jr_GAN800: $20 won't get another 1 GB of RAM if your system is old enough to only have 512 MB
23:14.22luke-jr_GAN800: DDR 1 and PC133 are easily over $50 per GB
23:14.23Tadthebuilderyea
23:14.27Tadthebuilderit only takes ddr
23:14.29Tadthebuildernot ddr2
23:14.35Tadthebuilderso it would cost about 50 dollars or more
23:14.37Tadthebuilderand yeah
23:14.41luke-jr_not to mention if he doesn't have slots
23:14.48TadthebuilderI do have two slots
23:14.50crashanddie__question: if your system is old enough to only have 512 megs of RAM, why do you bother with a modern browser? Isn't that like saying "My Voodoo FX can't run Far Cry 2"
23:14.51Tadthebuilderwith only one used
23:15.05luke-jr_crashanddie__: think of what channel you're in
23:15.09Tadthebuilderits only 5 or six years old
23:15.10javispedrocrashanddie__: 512 MiB is more than enough for a modern browser.
23:15.10luke-jr_most of us onyl have 128 MB RAM
23:15.11Tadthebuilderim poor...
23:15.19crashanddie__luke-jr_, my point exactly
23:15.23TadthebuilderI just got out of graduate school
23:15.37Tadthebuilderto a job that does not pay much...
23:15.37luke-jr_crashanddie__: the opposite of your point it seems
23:15.39crashanddie__luke-jr_, why are you *demanding* the same features as a full blown desktop browser if you're on a strapped environment?
23:15.42*** join/#maemo _BuBU (n=_BuBU@ALyon-552-1-41-40.w80-9.abo.wanadoo.fr)
23:15.46*** join/#maemo shdb (n=shdb@217-162-129-64.dclient.hispeed.ch)
23:15.55SpeedEvilI've - comparatively - recently used FF1.5 on a 128M machine.
23:15.55javispedrobecause 128 MiB should be enough for everyone!
23:16.01crashanddie__javispedro, LMAO
23:16.04SpeedEvilEven with 30 tabs open, it was fine.
23:16.04Tadthebuilderif any one has a 512 or gig of ddr ram id take it :)
23:16.12javispedroSpeedEvil: 192MiB, Firefox 3.
23:16.19javispedroand perfectly fine.
23:17.00luke-jr_SpeedEvil: FF 1.5 is not even supported
23:17.07luke-jr_javispedro: I agree.
23:17.16SpeedEvilluke-jr_: no, it's not.
23:17.30*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N810 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
23:17.30crashanddie__you guys make me smile
23:17.38javispedroyes!
23:17.44luke-jr_Windows NT 3.1 requires 12 MB of RAM
23:17.47crashanddie__In painful reminding way of why corporations have such a hard time listening to "online communities"
23:17.53javispedroWindows 95 requires less than 4 MiB.
23:17.57luke-jr_what do we have now that NT 3.1 didn't have that justifies over 10 times the RAM use?
23:17.58SpeedEvilluke-jr_: and it was a year ago.
23:18.00javispedroAnd I can still boot it in this computer.
23:18.27SpeedEvilluke-jr_: More viruses!
23:18.29javispedroluke-jr_: easy. ability for coders to be lazy and concentrate on the more stupid features instead, like flashy icons.
23:18.41*** join/#maemo __t (n=t@port-92-195-36-222.dynamic.qsc.de)
23:18.43luke-jr_javispedro: I suspect that's accurate ://
23:18.48SpeedEvilluke-jr_: higher bit-rate flesh0tones.
23:19.07GeneralAntillesluke-jr_, that question is so silly it's not worth answering.
23:19.37crashanddie__I'm going to print a t-shirt
23:19.51crashanddie__"Luke-Jr: Trolling just like Daddy taught me"
23:20.08javispedroaw, flaming is fun, cmon.
23:20.09javispedro:)
23:20.10Tadthebuilder40 dollars?
23:20.15luke-jr_GeneralAntilles: besides HD video, I can't think of much
23:20.35luke-jr_from an end-user perspective I mean
23:20.43Tadthebuildersearch indexing
23:20.46GeneralAntillesYou know what end users use?
23:20.52GeneralAntillesFaceebok, YouTube, MySpace
23:20.54TadthebuilderI am an end user
23:21.02GeneralAntillesAny one of which can file up 100MB of RAM easy.
23:21.07luke-jr_GeneralAntilles: none of which have a good reason to require more than a few MB of RAM
23:21.20Firebirdhm, GUI testing still only works under x86?
23:21.23GeneralAntillesMusic, video, games.
23:21.28javispedroFirebird: yes
23:21.40crashanddie__luke-jr_, resolution? quality (a jpeg over 40px wide, and no, animated gifs don't count), live indexing, rss feeds, connectivity, more programs running at the same time -> actual multitasking, actual ability to do stuff: recording high quality content (audio, video) is possible, wasn't the case a few years ago
23:21.41luke-jr_GeneralAntilles: those all worked fine 10 years ago
23:22.05luke-jr_crashanddie__: I said "besides HD video" for a reason
23:22.17crashanddie__luke-jr_, then fuck off and go back to CP/M if you're not happy with the current state of affairs
23:22.19Firebirdoh great, the infamous "You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first"
23:22.26javispedroFirebird: sb-conf ka
23:22.43luke-jr_crashanddie__: NT != CP/M
23:22.49luke-jr_crashanddie__: CP/M only needed a few KB
23:22.51javispedroI'm personally happy with the current state of affairs. I enjoy being lazy.
23:22.52Firebirdthanks javispedro , does that like kill all open programs?
23:23.09javispedroFirebird: yes
23:23.09javispedrosave the shell iirc.
23:23.52*** join/#maemo secureendpoints (n=chatzill@cpe-24-193-47-88.nyc.res.rr.com)
23:24.05crashanddie__luke-jr_, better libraries, better overall integration and data distribution across applications. Signal handling has drastically improved, and things like HAL or D-BUS have become a reality, only because we more power
23:24.20Tadthebuilderwould like more ram
23:24.31crashanddie__s/more power/have more power, storage and RAM/
23:24.47luke-jr_crashanddie__: HAL is a bad joke
23:24.49javispedrocrashanddie__: I'd stop adding functionality examples. Do you suggest that W95 didn't had IPC or Device Manager functionality for example?
23:24.56luke-jr_D-BUS is really nothing new, just standardized
23:24.59javispedrowhat I'd say is that what we have is nicer APIs.
23:25.13javispedroAPIs which don't care to make an extra copy of a string, for example.
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23:25.28javispedro---> more developer friendlyness.
23:25.32luke-jr_is the problem that we stuck to C and never moved to C++? :p
23:25.53crashanddie__javispedro, not saying W95 didn't have IPC, but it sure has evolved a whole lot. And I'm not talking about named pipes and other crap, but something like D-BUS definitely made IPC a lot easier
23:26.11crashanddie__dunno the windows equivalent
23:26.13javispedrocrashanddie__: made DEVELOPING and USING (developer) IPC easier.
23:26.16luke-jr_I was doing D-BUS type stuff at least a decade ago
23:26.31javispedrobut the end user didn't gain any direct functionality from it.
23:26.39crashanddie__javispedro, which provides better integration across applications, and thus better user experience
23:26.57crashanddie__javispedro, never underestimate the power of "ease of development" as a benefit for end users
23:27.04crashanddie__Maemo is a perfect example of that
23:27.04javispedrocrashanddie__: because then developers can be lazy and concentrate on the shiny icons.
23:27.10luke-jr_there are far more memory-friendly ways to do IPC than D-BUS
23:27.15TadthebuilderI kinda like shiny icons
23:27.15javispedroand so we repeat the conversation again ;)
23:27.17luke-jr_crashanddie__: hahaha
23:27.17Tadthebuilderand spinning cubes
23:27.19luke-jr_Maemo is crap.
23:27.40crashanddie__javispedro, the main reason Maemo sucks for the public at large, is that the applications are shite
23:27.47luke-jr_hard-coded for a single user named "user"
23:27.48Tadthebuilderand text editors with graphical interphaces
23:27.51Tadthebuilderinterfaces
23:27.52javispedrocrashanddie__: wrong nick! Maemo rules here. :)
23:28.01crashanddie__javispedro, the reason the applications are shite, is because developers have to re-invent the wheel every week
23:28.04luke-jr_that's supposed to be a perfect example?
23:28.18TadthebuilderIm someone from the public at large
23:28.20TadthebuilderI think
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23:28.23Tadthebuilderand I love maemo
23:28.35Tadthebuilderim not technical
23:28.35Tadthebuilderdont program
23:28.37luke-jr_fine
23:28.38Tadthebuilderhave minimal linux knowledge
23:28.47luke-jr_how about that Maemo's IM subsystem doesn't work?
23:28.47Tadthebuilderavoid command line
23:29.04javispedrocrashanddie__: and I agree. that's my point exactly. the only reason we're using more resources is because we don't concentrate any more on the proper use of resources and instead on the shiny icons.
23:29.12javispedrosome idealists may say this is horribly wrong.
23:29.15javispedroI don't.
23:29.18crashanddie__I'm going to be the devil's advocate here for a second: Why does the iPhone have that many apps and happy users across the globe? Let's put the phone and shiny UI aside for a second, and just focus for a second on why the apps are popping up like faint mushrooms
23:29.33crashanddie__javispedro, I've been yelling that on roofs for quite some time
23:29.44Tadthebuildercause people can make money on them
23:29.45luke-jr_crashanddie__: the shiny UI is the only reason AFAIK
23:30.01luke-jr_shiny UI sells it, which makes it a large target base
23:30.10luke-jr_add on top that those many iPhone owners have money to waste
23:30.14Tadthebuildershiny UI can be nice
23:30.20crashanddie__the reason iPhone development "just works", is because the whole process is thought through. You get one API, a good simulator, a brushed documentation that is consistent and help that is consistent
23:30.23Tadthebuilderespecially if it is intuitive
23:30.53crashanddie__They didn't give 5k developers 10k choices, they gave everyone the same choice. Done deal
23:31.10javispedronah.
23:31.13*** join/#maemo Flyser_ (n=flyser@unaffiliated/flyser)
23:31.19javispedrobut that would be a flame I don't want to get it :)
23:31.37crashanddie__The Freedom you get with Maemo is also its biggest downfall, too much choice is counter productive
23:31.50javispedrocrashanddie__: who was who said C++ ruled?
23:31.59javispedroer..
23:32.01crashanddie__eh?
23:32.02javispedroC++0x
23:32.06Firebird:o SDK is still ultra slow
23:32.08crashanddie__segfault, didn't compute
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23:32.25javispedroehem.
23:32.32javispedroeither it wasn't you, so nm.
23:32.36javispedrobah.
23:32.40javispedroi need to sleep.
23:32.48crashanddie__didn't understand the question, actually
23:32.57javispedroyes, sorry, nm.
23:32.58luke-jr_crashanddie__: Qt has one API
23:33.04crashanddie__luke-jr_, which is fine
23:33.18crashanddie__luke-jr_, problem is, the first video I found when looking up the n800, was some fool running KDE off the device
23:33.57Tadthebuilderhmm
23:34.00Tadthebuilderhes probably a regular
23:34.01crashanddie__what you have with Maemo, is some guys running everything off their tablet. Compilation et all (lcuk), and only do C, and reinvent the wheel because the libs are too slow
23:34.05JaffaNew version of Hermes about to hit autobuilder: pure Python for increased robustness, adds Facebook & Twitter profile URLs, add birthdays
23:34.18Tadthebuilderliqbase is awesome
23:34.24luke-jr_crashanddie__: you say that as if there's something better than KDE for the N8x0
23:34.35Tadthebuilderliqbase is better than kde
23:34.43Tadthebuilderliqbase is awesome.
23:34.50javispedrocrashanddie__: they reinvent the libs in iPhone too. only apple then bans them from the app store, and everybody complains.
23:34.50crashanddie__then you have the Python guys, who use ugly GTK, and you get the slowest applications ever, which need to think just to show a confirmation dialog
23:35.13javispedroeverybody being 0,1% of the iphone users "with voice". the rest don't care.
23:35.37crashanddie__you've got some crazy lunatics who do everything in C++, and write absolute monstrosities with massive dependencies (I'm one of those, sadly)
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23:35.47crashanddie__etc, etc, etc
23:35.51crashanddie__and the list just keeps on going
23:36.01crashanddie__which means that as a community, we're getting nowhere, because everyone is all over the place
23:36.02luke-jr_shrug
23:36.10luke-jr_I write good code at least.
23:36.12crashanddie__there's no one central point of advancement
23:36.23javispedrocrashanddie__: maemo has one platform and one language: Hildon and C.
23:36.25Tadthebuilderi think that maemo 4
23:36.26luke-jr_my latest long-running program used about 10 seconds of CPU time in a month.
23:36.27Tadthebuilderhas progressed nicely
23:36.30Tadthebuildersinces it first began
23:36.35Tadthebuilderand has alot more useful programs
23:36.37luke-jr_and a few KB of RAM
23:36.38Tadthebuilderand is more usable now then then
23:36.42javispedrocrashanddie__: what's missing from maemo is jobs banning you from the store if you use anything else.
23:36.55crashanddie__javispedro, I don't think that's true
23:36.56luke-jr_javispedro: no. Maemo also has Python, Qt, etc etc
23:36.59javispedrocrashanddie__: but that does not mean iphone devs enjoy ObjC.
23:37.05crashanddie__javispedro, what's killing Maemo is the wealth of choices
23:37.14javispedrocrashanddie__: same wealth in iphone.
23:37.23luke-jr_crashanddie__: no, what's killing Maemo is bad and closed software
23:37.35crashanddie__oh let's not even go there
23:37.38Jaffacrashanddie__: What Maemo needs is a killer choice (or all the options to be as good as they should be)
23:37.51luke-jr_Jaffa: Qt4
23:37.52crashanddie__Jaffa, that would work too
23:37.54Jaffa's 5 min lightning talk on Saturday will go into more details
23:38.02crashanddie__Jaffa, I'll be sure to attend
23:38.03luke-jr_but even Maemo's Qt4 is not quite standard from what I recall
23:38.06Tadthebuilderchoice is good
23:38.14crashanddie__Tadthebuilder, yes, but only to a point
23:38.21Tadthebuilderhow many windows programs are there that burn music cds?
23:38.23Jaffaluke-jr_: Gets partway. Still not as good as it should be.
23:38.25luke-jr_hopes Qt4 Maemo is decently coded
23:38.27javispedrochoice is good, no matter what. defaults are better.
23:38.29MaceN8x0hm
23:38.39Tadthebuildertwo legs good four legs better
23:38.40crashanddie__Tadthebuilder, even the best of bakers can't make a profit from making 5000 different types of pastry when he only has 300 customers per day
23:38.49Jaffacrashanddie__: Much of it should be familiar to you, TBH. Hopefully educational to others tho
23:38.52Tadthebuilderaye,
23:38.57Tadthebuilderand if nokia was making all the software I would agree
23:39.04Tadthebuilderbut the beauty of maemo is the open development
23:39.07Tadthebuilderof the third part software
23:39.15Tadthebuilderthus we can have a program that will help you find bell towers
23:39.19Tadthebuilderor fifteen
23:39.43crashanddie__that's fine, have it
23:39.51crashanddie__but how is that going to make the community grow, or evolve?
23:40.03crashanddie__Because suddenly we've got Quasimodo hunching for Quim?
23:40.11javispedrohow many phone models has nokia in store?
23:40.25crashanddie__I don't mind having weird, funky and glorious little apps, which are useful to 10 people
23:40.34crashanddie__but they're not what the central development model should be focusing on
23:40.38Tadthebuilderare you suggesting a tighter hand of control over the community?
23:40.56crashanddie__When I saw the VM that brought the whole development environment together in one place, I thought "Finally, we've reached a strong point"
23:41.03Tadthebuilderis hoping someone will make a program that is useful to him and maybe ten other people but doubts it even with his bounty of 35 dollars
23:41.21Firebirdaww, the web browser doesn't work in the SDK
23:41.22javispedrocrashanddie__: IMHO,mobile SDKs tend to promote "weird, funky and glorious little apps".
23:41.22crashanddie__but we didn't. It was flakeware, and never lived to become the incentive it should've been
23:41.44JaffaFirebird: Hmm, wiki docs suggested it should
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23:41.49crashanddie__javispedro, only when the "mobile SDK" already exists, which in Maemo, is not the case
23:41.59Jaffacrashanddie__: +oo
23:42.30FirebirdJaffa, it shows a sort of history list, but when you click any of the items it just makes more history items
23:42.30crashanddie__+oo?
23:42.31javispedro+Inf I guess :P
23:42.31*** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=rsalveti@187.78.196.26)
23:42.32Jaffanods
23:42.43crashanddie__still didn't get it
23:42.49Firebirdoh... "Operation temporarily disabled due to low memory"
23:42.53Jaffa+1 x very big number
23:43.00javispedrocrashanddie__: that you're right. maemo doesn't have a proper SDK yet.
23:43.10crashanddie__Tadthebuilder, I'm not saying anyone should put the community in check, no one can, this can only be a decision made by the community itself, by a number of developers together
23:43.24Tadthebuilderis offering 35 dollars to any one who creates a program useful for keeping track of pastoral visitations and phone calls....
23:43.29luke-jr_SDKs are flawed in theory
23:43.39luke-jr_software should be written for a purpose, not for a platform
23:44.04javispedroI agree with luke-jr there, but as usual, that doesn't go down well for the corporate world.
23:44.14GeneralAntillesFirebird, working OK here.
23:44.18JaffaAnd most people would like to write said software on something with a big screen and a nice keyboard.
23:44.29FirebirdGeneralAntilles, having low mem issues
23:44.32JaffaAnd then test it on a device (or, if one is not available, as close to a device is available)
23:44.39FirebirdGeneralAntilles, scratchbox limit perhaps?
23:44.57JaffaThese utilities would often be bundled together in the form of a "kit" for "software development".
23:45.12GeneralAntilleslol
23:45.15crashanddie__I wanted to develop for the blackberry. I expensed a few quid to the company, and immediately had access to a device simulator, a doc with how-tos and hello-worlds, and a single language/API to start with. They didn't put littles stars and caveats on what OS I used, nor told me "you can do this, or this, or this, or this", and then if you ask a community, you're being told "oh no, don't do that, do this"
23:45.16Jaffaluke-jr: javispedro: Exactly which bit of that high-level definition of "SDK" would you get rid of?
23:45.17GeneralAntillesJaffa, clever.
23:45.31javispedroJaffa: the entire term is wrong.
23:45.41JaffaThe entire term is meaningless.
23:45.44javispedroJaffa: it has only recently rised in popularity with the iPhone.
23:45.54Tadthebuilderand video games
23:46.04crashanddie__and car tuning
23:46.06JaffaPopularity, maybe. But I've been using mobile platform SDKs for over 15 years.
23:46.08javispedroand in fact apple is still google's first hit when looking for SDK.
23:46.09crashanddie__</off topic>
23:46.35javispedroJaffa: and they were anything more than a set of .h files?
23:46.48JaffaThe term has a well defined meaning in computing. That it's now popular on Google for the iPhone SDK; or people use it wrongly; or the Maemo one sucks; doesn't devalue it from being a concept which is useful
23:46.53Jaffajavispedro: A lot more.
23:46.55Firebirdhow the heck do I have low memory -_- there's like 3.4GB available
23:47.08Jaffajavispedro: Toolchain, linker, emulator
23:47.11luke-jr_Jaffa: all of it.
23:47.16crashanddie__PS: this was something I always wanted to have a proper discussion about during a summit or something, just never got around to putting my ideas in a straight and well-layed out manner. Which causes me to go "oh fuck off you wanker" as soon as I'm caught unprepared
23:47.24luke-jr_write it like any other app on your computer, then cross-compile it for the device
23:47.27luke-jr_copy and run
23:47.40Jaffaluke-jr_: And how does your typical developer install the right cross-compiler and libraries?
23:47.45JaffaOh, they're shipped in a sodding SDK.
23:47.58luke-jr_Jaffa: their operating system's package manager
23:48.18luke-jr_this isn't 1980
23:48.23luke-jr_cross compilers aren't black magic anymore
23:48.27Mouseywoah
23:48.35Tadthebuilderyou have 3.4 gigs of memory....
23:48.50crashanddie__luke-jr_, cross compilers shouldn't require you to dump "0" in some file of your system's core files
23:48.59luke-jr_crashanddie__: so?
23:49.02Jaffaluke-jr_: And how do I ensure on my OS that I have the correct libraries which will run on the device? How do I test on a device I don't have.
23:49.11Mouseyldd!
23:49.13Mousey^_^
23:49.33Mouseyisn't being a helper
23:49.36Mouseygoes back to lurking
23:49.51Jaffaluke-jr_: This is what an SDK encompasses. It's like saying "you don't need a Linux distribution, you can just compile it all from scratch. Yes, you can. But most people will be more productive by taking the efforts of Ubuntu or Debian and getting down to real work
23:49.52GeneralAntillesJaffa, clearly we need only to distribute hallucinogens to any interested developer.
23:49.59GeneralAntillesThen you can test whatever you want!
23:50.06Mouseysigns up!
23:50.08javispedroclearly.
23:50.14luke-jr_Jaffa: qmake -spec n810 && make
23:50.27javispedrowell, there are quite a few interesting summit talks comming it seems :D
23:50.31Mouseyone little two little three little endian
23:50.38crashanddie__GeneralAntilles, woohoo, free shrooms and absinthe for everyone at the summit
23:50.50luke-jr_Jaffa: and as far as testing, hire developers to add qemu support
23:50.50GeneralAntilles:(
23:51.04crashanddie__luke-jr_, why?
23:51.20crashanddie__what kind of benefits would any company get from developing qemu?
23:51.39crashanddie__any benefit that would warrant £180k a year
23:51.47crashanddie__(on the base of 3 devs)
23:52.22Jaffaluke-jr_: And, under my definition (and that accepted by the software industry), the combination of qmake support - and knowledge - of the N810 (which wouldn't be shipped as standard with qmake because it should be a plugin), the qemu configuration, the qemu image and any tools to make it easy to insert the cross-compiled packages into the qemu image would fall under the term "Software Development Kit"
23:52.35luke-jr_crashanddie__: not writing your own emulator from scratch?
23:53.15crashanddie__I fail to see the business opportunity
23:53.28MouseyFREE INTERNETS! duh
23:53.43Mouseyoops.. i'm supposed to be lurking, sorry ^_^
23:53.43Jaffaisn't saying "SDK" => separate VMware image, or chroot or anything like that. It means: a consistent configuration which you can easily install to start writing - and testing - applications for a device.
23:53.54JaffaMousey: Bad mousey. I'll set the cattey on you...
23:54.00Mouseyhides!
23:54.04crashanddie__Jaffa, amen
23:54.08Tadthebuilderis the contacts app in maemo four open source?
23:54.15javispedroJaffa: then you're clearly using the "modern" iPhone-era definition of SDK.
23:54.18crashanddie__maemo four lol
23:54.26Jaffajavispedro: Eh?
23:54.27crashanddie__javispedro, no, he's using the correct one
23:54.50javispedroWell, I'd call that an IDE.
23:54.51Jaffajavispedro: This use of the term "SDK" predate the iPhone. See the Java SDK for a modernish example. EPOC for the earlier one
23:54.54Tadthebuilderdiablo then
23:55.08crashanddie__javispedro, or have you been silently ignoring parts of our argument just to suit your own view?
23:55.37crashanddie__anyway
23:55.37Jaffajavispedro: A modern IDE can meet many parts of that definition of SDK, yes.
23:55.39crashanddie__late enough
23:55.43JaffaAs can a VMware image or a chroot.
23:55.43crashanddie__Jaffa, go to bed
23:55.46Jaffacrashanddie__: ditto
23:55.50crashanddie__I am
23:55.55JaffaDitto :)
23:55.56javispedroditto too.
23:56.00crashanddie__just calling you to join me, darling
23:56.11Tadthebuilderguess no one knows
23:56.37crashanddie__anyway, I'm looking forward to this summit
23:56.43GeneralAntillesTadthebuilder, no, it's not.
23:56.48Tadthebuilderkk
23:56.50Tadthebuilderthanks
23:57.00crashanddie__my only real motivation is to see if GeneralAntilles really has a big fat beard at age 21, or if he's just a good photoshopist
23:57.07*** join/#maemo zerojay (n=jay@modemcable180.240-23-96.mc.videotron.ca)
23:57.24GeneralAntillescrashanddie__, disappointment awaits.
23:57.31GeneralAntillesFucked by the State Department.
23:57.32GeneralAntillesNot going.
23:57.37crashanddie__what the fuck?
23:57.43GeneralAntillesThat's what I said.
23:57.48crashanddie__why?
23:58.05SpeedEvilGovernmental incompetance.
23:58.06GeneralAntilles"1-3 weeks expedited service with two-way overnight" is apparently nothing of the sort.
23:58.12GeneralAntillesMore like 7 weeks and no overnight.
23:58.16GeneralAntillesShipped today. :\
23:58.32SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: I assume you can't claim back travel costs from them?
23:58.35luke-jr_GeneralAntilles: demand a refund?
23:58.39crashanddie__nokia paid
23:58.42SpeedEvilah
23:58.46GeneralAntilles^
23:58.58GeneralAntillesThey already offered me a refund on the $14.95 for overnight. :roll:
23:59.01luke-jr_for the Passport?
23:59.06luke-jr_oh
23:59.11SpeedEvilDid they give you any excuses as to why it took so long?
23:59.11crashanddie__GeneralAntilles, nice
23:59.18GeneralAntillesExpedited service is apparently not a guarantee.
23:59.22crashanddie__it never is
23:59.23GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, no.
23:59.25luke-jr_GeneralAntilles: take it and sue for damages? :p
23:59.35luke-jr_by offering you the refund, they admit they messed up
23:59.41GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, the national call center is completely disconnected from the processing centers.
23:59.50GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, they all operate as essentially independent entities.

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