| 00:03.51 | pupnik | i'd like a keyboard shortcut in file manager for 'rename' |
| 00:04.30 | luke-jr | F2? |
| 00:04.54 | *** part/#maemo yigal (n=user@cpe-76-93-215-64.hawaii.res.rr.com) |
| 00:07.15 | pupnik | on nokia |
| 00:07.24 | pupnik | i haven't done the "tab" on keyboard hack yet |
| 00:07.31 | pupnik | and when i press tab on-screen it just displays a 'H' |
| 00:07.44 | pupnik | in xterm |
| 00:07.45 | pupnik | oddness |
| 00:08.13 | pupnik | so i using file manager |
| 00:09.43 | pupnik | after renaming a file, file manager (gtk) doesn't return you to the same view location. gtk probably only allows redisplaying the list at a certain filename |
| 00:12.37 | pupnik | oops wrong chan |
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| 02:17.45 | BoyBlunder | evening folks, quick question if possible |
| 02:17.56 | BoyBlunder | anyone know of a good .lit file viewer for the N810? |
| 02:19.59 | BoyBlunder | evening folks, quick question if possible |
| 02:20.01 | BoyBlunder | anyone know of a good .lit file viewer for the N810? |
| 02:20.15 | lcuk | for now try fbreader |
| 02:20.27 | lcuk | later there will be more (for varying amounts of later) |
| 02:20.52 | BoyBlunder | yeah, currently using FBReader, coming up empty. |
| 02:20.56 | BoyBlunder | their site says: This format is not supported and is unlikely to be ever supported. It is a closed format created and owned by Microsoft and any attempts to support it would be quite questionable from legal point of view. |
| 02:21.33 | lcuk | thats not coming up blank |
| 02:21.37 | lcuk | thats pretty clear to me |
| 02:21.45 | lcuk | find a windoers converter :) |
| 02:21.48 | lcuk | windows |
| 02:22.52 | BoyBlunder | is Mer worth the upgrade? currently running diablo |
| 02:23.08 | BoyBlunder | seems kinda sluggish at times on my n810 |
| 02:23.42 | luke-jr | BoyBlunder: Mer is still alpha-quality IIRC |
| 02:24.06 | BoyBlunder | oh wow, still got a ways to go then |
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| 06:01.42 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: when was microb opened? |
| 06:02.02 | GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, the intention was announced a while ago, the full source isn't available yet, however. |
| 06:02.11 | Stskeeps | ah |
| 06:11.20 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: read http://mynokiablog.com/2009/09/16/video-nokia-n900-qa-with-jussi-makinen-and-maemo-community-guys/ ? |
| 06:11.34 | GeneralAntilles | Skimmed |
| 06:11.46 | Stskeeps | some good comments on Mer there too |
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| 06:31.19 | johnx | anyone tried "wizard mounter"? Did you actually get it to work right? |
| 06:32.00 | Stskeeps | i think once yes |
| 06:32.08 | Stskeeps | but smb and nfs doesnt lend itself well to mobile usage |
| 06:32.23 | johnx | suppose so :/ |
| 06:32.46 | johnx | does it use smbfs or one of the fuse-based smb things? |
| 06:33.53 | johnx | ah, it uses the kernel versions |
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| 07:09.04 | Sudhir | Hello all. I have got a probelm while running a newly compiled qt progra, on n810. It work on scratchbox but gives error like this on device --> line 1: syntax error : "(" unexpected |
| 07:09.15 | Sudhir | Can anyone help me identify this problem? |
| 07:13.27 | johnx | huh |
| 07:13.31 | johnx | I think I've seen that before |
| 07:14.01 | qwerty12_N810 | (Psst... N810 != X86) |
| 07:14.17 | johnx | yup, that's where I saw it :) |
| 07:15.23 | johnx | actually, where I saw it was an ARM executable linked against uclibc on a glibc system, but it's the same idea |
| 07:15.33 | johnx | Sudhir, recompile with the ARM target in scratchbox |
| 07:15.37 | Stskeeps | johnx, saw the transcript? |
| 07:16.06 | johnx | the thing with Jussi? |
| 07:16.10 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 07:16.13 | Sudhir | ohhh i got it |
| 07:16.14 | johnx | yeah, I read through most of it |
| 07:16.18 | johnx | interesting stuff |
| 07:16.34 | johnx | some, PR related dodging, but overall very candid |
| 07:16.57 | johnx | it was interesting to see them reference ITT/TMO when asked about demographics :D |
| 07:17.20 | Stskeeps | dear god |
| 07:17.43 | Sudhir | johnx, qwerty12__n810 thanks. It was the mistake, i used x86 image on device. |
| 07:18.03 | johnx | no problem. everyone makes that mistake eventually ;) |
| 07:18.08 | Myrtti | nööf |
| 07:18.13 | Stskeeps | i like the view of mer-at least it shows we are regarded well |
| 07:18.16 | Sudhir | ;-) |
| 07:18.17 | Stskeeps | morn Myrtti |
| 07:18.29 | Myrtti | stupid weddings |
| 07:18.33 | johnx | you can use the 'file' command to see what arch your binary is compiled for |
| 07:18.34 | Myrtti | I want to be at the maemo summit |
| 07:18.59 | Stskeeps | instead of being married? ;) |
| 07:19.11 | qwerty12_N810 | Myrtti: get the wedding moved to the venue where the Summit is being held, problem solved! :p |
| 07:19.27 | johnx | I'll officiate :) |
| 07:19.37 | Myrtti | qwerty12_N810: not in my hands, I suspect the couple would have objections |
| 07:19.50 | Myrtti | Stskeeps: haven't been proposed yet |
| 07:20.11 | qwerty12_N810 | The couple are not fans of weed and canals? =) |
| 07:20.28 | Myrtti | I've never met either of them |
| 07:20.34 | Myrtti | so I wouldn't know |
| 07:20.35 | Stskeeps | still can't believe he's married by now |
| 07:21.45 | qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: Which is why you can still be found at a computer? ;P |
| 07:22.35 | Myrtti | though, if I convince myself to believe they wouldn't have N900 with scandinavian keyboard on sale at the summit anyway |
| 07:22.36 | Stskeeps | bingo, or, i have sufficient space to do my work |
| 07:22.58 | Myrtti | doesn't work - I still want to be at the summit |
| 07:23.50 | qwerty12_N810 | Videolink: Send your N800 there and buy the N900 and have them sharing video |
| 07:25.17 | Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: reminds me of www.smbc-comics.com today |
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| 07:26.07 | qwerty12_N810 | lol |
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| 07:53.31 | kirma | heh. |
| 07:54.04 | kirma | observes that one .fi webshop says N900 is available in three weeks |
| 07:54.29 | kirma | for last three days, the arrival date has been three weeks from that date ;) |
| 07:55.27 | slonopotamus | kirma, you didn't expect it to become less, don't you? |
| 07:55.51 | johnx | the pandora has been two months out for almost a year :) |
| 07:55.58 | johnx | the cuuuurse of the OMAP3 :D |
| 07:58.26 | kirma | well... |
| 07:58.42 | qwerty12_N810 | The curse of people who don't know what they're doing |
| 08:00.14 | johnx | yeah, i'm pretty glad that most of the time I've basically forgotten about the money entirely |
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| 08:04.30 | Stskeeps | lo lbt |
| 08:08.11 | lbt | good morning Stskeeps |
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| 08:16.33 | Dantonic | hi anyone use festival? |
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| 09:01.53 | Macer | oh |
| 09:01.58 | johnx | no |
| 09:02.00 | Macer | no kidding. i guess they didn't cancel defying gravity |
| 09:02.16 | Macer | awesome. to have left it with that last episode would have been a nail biter :) |
| 09:02.49 | johnx | also: new eps of "Fringe" :D |
| 09:02.58 | johnx | just about the only TV show I watch on purpose |
| 09:03.18 | Macer | johnx: yeah :) |
| 09:03.22 | Macer | but the first one sucked |
| 09:03.38 | Macer | wtf .. what happened to leonard nimoy? :) |
| 09:03.55 | Macer | they just jumped ahead to where she was being chased by some shape shifter |
| 09:04.00 | johnx | unrelated: On talk.m.o, where is the "Fall in a hole!" option to go with the "Thanks!" option? |
| 09:04.14 | johnx | Macer, yeah, kinda confused me |
| 09:04.17 | lcuk | thats the reply button |
| 09:04.40 | johnx | Macer, I figured I just forgot what happened. Glad to hear my memory isn't going that badly yet |
| 09:04.58 | Macer | haha |
| 09:05.03 | Macer | honestly i thought i missed an episode |
| 09:05.11 | Macer | so i double checked |
| 09:05.24 | Macer | i was wrong :) that is how it was supposed to go |
| 09:05.32 | Macer | the guy that plays peter looks like he is strung out on herion |
| 09:05.38 | johnx | got to admit that first ep really simulates memory loss, rather well :) |
| 09:06.01 | Macer | like.. i think he is strung out in real life |
| 09:06.02 | Macer | haha |
| 09:06.13 | Macer | nobody looks that pale and has eyes that red without being strung out |
| 09:07.09 | mavhc | I saw 2 eps of fringe, yawn |
| 09:07.18 | mavhc | same with defying gravity |
| 09:07.32 | Macer | you can never judge a show by its first 2 episodes |
| 09:07.47 | mavhc | I can judge it by the first 10 mins |
| 09:07.49 | Macer | i thought raising the bar sucked until later on in the season |
| 09:07.56 | Macer | mavhc: haha |
| 09:08.07 | mavhc | if you can't write a good pilot why should I waste my time with you? |
| 09:08.08 | Macer | i give a show at least 4 episodes |
| 09:08.24 | Macer | heh |
| 09:08.40 | Macer | ever go back and look at the first simpson episodes? |
| 09:08.46 | mavhc | yes, funny |
| 09:08.48 | johnx | mavhc, that's why I never read the grapes of wrath: if the first paragraph doesn't pull me in, then why should I care? |
| 09:08.50 | Macer | no.. they suck |
| 09:08.51 | Macer | :) |
| 09:09.01 | Macer | but they were new so people sucked it up |
| 09:09.12 | Macer | haha |
| 09:09.33 | Macer | yeah... i'm sorry but a show should be given more than 10 minutes. character development takes a little while |
| 09:09.39 | mavhc | johnx: if it were published paragraph by paragraph, who would? |
| 09:09.55 | Macer | it's like watching a basketball team that has never played together... once they get good at it... they win championships |
| 09:10.04 | johnx | mavhc, I guess I might follow your rule if I actually watched TV on TV :) |
| 09:10.12 | mavhc | it's like watching a basketball team that has never played together, and filming their first training session |
| 09:10.29 | mavhc | wait until they're good, then put them in public |
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| 09:15.25 | practisevoodoo_ | does anyone know the new google streets url needed for maemo maps? |
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| 09:25.38 | thux | about google, how long it take to see in net what google's camera car has filmed? |
| 09:26.47 | unixSnob | thux: should be weeks in lag time for privacy issues |
| 09:27.01 | lcuk | thux, i dunno but i imagine one day soon they will have live as it happens |
| 09:27.04 | SpeedEvil | The software they use is automatic |
| 09:27.12 | SpeedEvil | The blurring I mean |
| 09:27.23 | SpeedEvil | (and not 100% reliable) |
| 09:27.29 | thux | ok thanks |
| 09:27.43 | SpeedEvil | needs some funds to do openstreetview. |
| 09:27.45 | thux | just got filmed last week :) |
| 09:27.59 | SpeedEvil | I need to work up a proposal. |
| 09:28.00 | unixSnob | like the couple who was filmed in their front yard, in a compromising position, which later circulated at their workplace and cause embarrassment |
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| 09:28.10 | unixSnob | the bluring filter wouldn't automatically detect that |
| 09:28.23 | aSIMULAter | compromising position |
| 09:28.25 | SpeedEvil | IMO - doing shit in public = no expectation of privacy |
| 09:28.33 | aSIMULAter | yeah |
| 09:28.43 | aSIMULAter | who's stupid enough to do it out on their front yard when a car is going by |
| 09:28.47 | unixSnob | SpeedEvil: they weren't doing sex.. it just appeared that way |
| 09:28.51 | unixSnob | they have a good case |
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| 09:29.25 | unixSnob | if one was helping the other push a sign into the ground, for example, the right angle may make it look like soemthing else |
| 09:31.03 | unixSnob | i don't know exactly what they were doing, but the case was that they were doing something completely normal in public, not sexual, but the camera just got the right shot to cause embarrassment |
| 09:31.34 | aSIMULAter | o well sucks to be them |
| 09:31.48 | unixSnob | actually, great to be them.. they got a good settlement iirc |
| 09:32.10 | unixSnob | google (rightly) got spanked hard for that |
| 09:33.43 | lcuk | aSIMULAter, doesnt have to be front yard - could be anywhere - normal humans might catch a glimpse of something round a corner, thats not the same as taking a photo and allowing it to be zoomed |
| 09:33.50 | lcuk | and framed and printed |
| 09:34.19 | unixSnob | Those google street view cams also stray down streets that are posted "private road", so of course residents on those streets have an expectation of privacy |
| 09:34.59 | lcuk | didnt that couple lose their case |
| 09:35.55 | lcuk | http://www.businessinsider.com/court-tries-google-street-view-vs-privacy-rights-case-google-wins-2009-2 |
| 09:36.04 | unixSnob | lcuk: maybe.. i might have the wrong one where google had to do a 180 degree policy change |
| 09:36.50 | unixSnob | heh, their last name was "Boring" |
| 09:37.31 | lcuk | lol |
| 09:38.00 | lcuk | "mr boring, you are brought before this court today because you did not live up to your name. " |
| 09:39.07 | lcuk | "after a night of heavy drinking you proceeded to recreate the clock tower scene from 'back to the future' whilst naked. this caused severe upset to many people near the town hall, especially the mayor whom quite fortuitously managed to catch your fall" |
| 09:39.08 | aSIMULAter | :) |
| 09:40.06 | unixSnob | "two male colleagues pictured in an apparently compromising position (they seemed to be kissing, but were not) who suffered embarrassment when the image was circulated at their workplace, and when their female partners learned of it." <- that's the case i was probably reading about |
| 09:41.20 | unixSnob | "A fifteen year-old boy was caught carrying a skateboard, which his parents had expressly forbade him from using." |
| 09:41.42 | unixSnob | some kid probably got spanked because of a google cam |
| 09:42.14 | unixSnob | another good case -> "A married man was captured speaking at close proximity with a female colleague. Because of noisy road work, he was forced to speak into her ear, but the image created the appearance of intimacy, leading to an argument with his wife." |
| 09:45.19 | *** join/#maemo L0cMini9 (n=kki@79.40.242.92) |
| 09:45.50 | unixSnob | Is Qt supposed to be part of the maemo sdk+ package? |
| 09:46.13 | unixSnob | I thought it was, but qmake seems to be missing |
| 09:47.04 | lbt | Wow .... Obi Wan Kenobi must have been born.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-P1zZAcPuw |
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| 10:02.10 | lcuk | lbt yeah |
| 10:02.24 | lcuk | the feedback mechanism is amazing |
| 10:03.09 | *** part/#maemo pr (n=pavel@78-70-20-188-no52.business.telia.com) |
| 10:03.39 | lbt | and the paper/ultrasound shows how it's not like 'wind' |
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| 10:06.54 | lcuk | yeah lbt |
| 10:06.59 | lcuk | really neat |
| 10:07.20 | sp3000 | a skating elephant! |
| 10:07.27 | lbt | pondering PUSH |
| 10:07.31 | lcuk | they shouldv done a mouse |
| 10:07.42 | lbt | elephant is cute |
| 10:08.15 | lcuk | and crash and kot pushed last week. pondering some others too |
| 10:08.35 | lcuk | lbt, choose something simple elegant and within boundaries of buildability |
| 10:09.00 | lcuk | the example projects they did were really cool |
| 10:09.09 | lcuk | and everyone was clamouring to have a proper look |
| 10:09.22 | lcuk | was v impressed by em all |
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| 10:14.45 | unixSnob | tests whether installing qt dev tools is as simple as $ aptitude install qt4-dev-tools |
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| 10:20.16 | Captain_Picard | http://www.liitos.net/fi/blogi/326-10-ei-suositeltua-huumetta-ja-paeihdettae |
| 10:20.19 | unixSnob | nice! booooya! It's so fucking nice when a tool installation just works. No hacking, not bullshit, no fucking around with loose ends.. it just worked |
| 10:21.12 | lbt | of course |
| 10:22.07 | unixSnob | of course, I had to go through a lot of bullshit to get an environment that would work that way, since Maemo SDK+ doesn't work on 64bit kernels |
| 10:28.10 | lbt | who knows how I can create a circuit whos resistance varies given a variable input voltage ? |
| 10:28.26 | lbt | unixSnob: does too |
| 10:28.41 | lbt | doesn't work on 64bit libc though ;) |
| 10:29.25 | unixSnob | lbt: it doesn't "just work".. I had to create a chrooted environment that serves up 32bit libs. But it can execute on a 64bit |
| 10:29.50 | lbt | yeah - you need to run mixed 64/32 kernel/userspace |
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| 12:14.42 | Robin_Watts | Hi all. I've downloaded the maemo sdk image, and I'm running it under VMWare player. I've created a new C Maemo project using the gtkhelloworld thing as it's template. I can build it and run it on the local emulation. lovely stuff. |
| 12:15.20 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (n=andre@g1.blanicka25.net) |
| 12:15.20 | Robin_Watts | Now I update the "hello" function to include a call out to a new function that I'll define in an assembler file. |
| 12:16.14 | Robin_Watts | I rebuild, and nowhere can I see an error given to say it's not defined. |
| 12:16.29 | Robin_Watts | The helloworld binary isn't updated (well, the time doesn't change). |
| 12:16.35 | Robin_Watts | Any clues? |
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| 12:21.01 | lcuk | Robin_Watts, pastebin the console log for recompiling the helloworld binary after making the change |
| 12:21.26 | lcuk | but it sounds like the compiler is choking and not rebuilding you a new binary... |
| 12:21.44 | lcuk | which is what i would do if i were trying to compile your incomplete code |
| 12:21.55 | Sudhir | Robin, may be you delete the old binary and see if you get a new one after recompiling |
| 12:22.08 | lcuk | i dont think hes getting a new binary |
| 12:22.28 | Sudhir | Yes, he is not. |
| 12:22.36 | lcuk | if his function includes a call to a not yet existing function and the new .o module has not been linked with the binary - how can it complete the compilation task |
| 12:22.43 | Sudhir | He said the time stamp doesnt change |
| 12:22.57 | lcuk | yeah thats entirely true |
| 12:26.50 | lcuk | o_O lbt, use a real globe and some motors and make the globe rotate and move an arrow around to show position on the globe :D |
| 12:27.18 | SpeedEvil | You need to add the library containing the assembler function to the list of libraries you link against |
| 12:27.25 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: I have a 1:1 globe. It sucks. |
| 12:28.08 | lbt | lcuk: and link to flickr.... |
| 12:28.24 | lcuk | lol |
| 12:28.35 | lcuk | the 1:1 globe needs improving tho lol |
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| 12:28.47 | lbt | so when you browse flikr photos the globe moves... nice :) |
| 12:30.13 | lcuk | heh or your contacts |
| 12:30.23 | lcuk | parcel tracking involving a pen on the globe |
| 12:30.31 | lcuk | just mail yourself stuff from everywhere |
| 12:58.52 | Robin_Watts | Gents, the problem I'm having is that I *can't* find the build output anywhere! |
| 12:58.57 | Robin_Watts | no errors, nothing. |
| 12:59.11 | Robin_Watts | Let me start again from scratch. |
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| 12:59.54 | Robin_Watts | File - > New C Maemo Project. GTK Hello World Project. |
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| 13:00.25 | Robin_Watts | call it gtkhello3, select DIABLO_ARMEL (Debug) as the default |
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| 13:01.23 | andre__ | Robin_Watts, "File - > New C Maemo Project" - where? |
| 13:02.13 | Robin_Watts | I wonder if it's been broken by me upgrading stuff... let me revert the VMimage to the downloaded one and start completely from scratch. That'll take me a while cos it'll have to decompress, so I'll go walk the dogs. |
| 13:02.28 | Robin_Watts | So, back in an hour or so - thanks! |
| 13:04.10 | wazd | hello Maemo |
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| 13:06.23 | RST38h | ehlo all |
| 13:07.56 | wazd | RST38h: heya |
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| 13:08.20 | pupnik | OmapFB vs SGX blitting http://sandbox.movial.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/cairoperf-omapfb-vs-sgx.txt |
| 13:10.37 | RST38h | pupnik: Can OmapFB blitter be used at all? |
| 13:11.01 | pupnik | these are on beagleboard |
| 13:11.30 | RST38h | ah |
| 13:11.35 | lcuk | hi wazd RST38h pip |
| 13:11.37 | lcuk | pupnik, |
| 13:11.40 | RST38h | moo lcuk |
| 13:11.44 | pupnik | this issue could have significant impacts |
| 13:11.51 | pupnik | which is the only reason i bring it up |
| 13:12.03 | RST38h | Well, I can't even figure out how to blit with omapfb |
| 13:12.18 | RST38h | It is not like n8x0 where you commanded the Blizzard and it jumped |
| 13:12.30 | lcuk | but blizzard was end unit |
| 13:12.51 | lcuk | how did you do hardware blits with blizzard? |
| 13:13.01 | lcuk | and get at the results for further processing? |
| 13:13.35 | RST38h | lcuk: Blizzard did the DMA, scaled the picture, and showed it on the actual LCD |
| 13:13.51 | lcuk | im guessing the sort of blitting you need would be like talking to the DSP |
| 13:13.55 | Corsac | Starcraft! |
| 13:13.59 | RST38h | lcuk: So you had a /dev/fb0 ioctl() that set up scaling parameters and initiated the blit |
| 13:14.13 | RST38h | it was way easier than talking to dsp really |
| 13:14.17 | lcuk | initiated the display of your data in a certain rectangle |
| 13:14.19 | lcuk | granted |
| 13:14.22 | RST38h | But anyways, Blizzard is gone, ok |
| 13:14.27 | RST38h | lcuk: more or less, yes |
| 13:14.54 | lcuk | i think blitter like blitter on amiga - a custom coprocessor that manipulated your frame data |
| 13:15.01 | RST38h | So back to the basics: got a framebuffer, got an image in memory, how do I quickly blit it to framebuffer, with scaling? |
| 13:15.02 | lcuk | and then you could do other things with your frame afterwards |
| 13:15.07 | RST38h | lcuk: that was the copper chip |
| 13:15.34 | RST38h | lcuk: word "blitter" (from "to blit") is generic nowadays and means quick copying of bitmaps |
| 13:16.28 | pupnik | it would be nifty if you could build the image in 'shared memory' then when finished, set the start addr of framebuffer to that |
| 13:16.47 | lcuk | blitter and copper are 2 different things |
| 13:17.10 | pupnik | i.e. no copy at all |
| 13:17.49 | jaska | amiga also had separate bitplanes instead of chunked pixels as nowadays |
| 13:18.06 | lcuk | liked bitplanes |
| 13:18.28 | RST38h | jaska: yea, scary |
| 13:18.30 | pupnik | so did the zenith z-110 :) |
| 13:18.47 | RST38h | In fact, you can request a bitplaned image from X11 |
| 13:19.02 | lcuk | yeah, and that was one of the first things i looked for |
| 13:19.09 | RST38h | Although modern X11 implementations (Xfree) will offer you to go screw yourself instead |
| 13:19.10 | lcuk | i wouldnt have minded pure bw image |
| 13:21.06 | lcuk | how does it send over lowcolor x11 remoting stuff |
| 13:21.11 | lcuk | does it use min 256 colors? |
| 13:21.14 | lcuk | and chunky |
| 13:21.24 | lcuk | cos im sure ive seen extreme low color x11 |
| 13:22.24 | RST38h | 1bit |
| 13:22.27 | RST38h | 4bits |
| 13:22.29 | RST38h | 8bits |
| 13:22.43 | RST38h | Anything in 4-8bits range is palettized views |
| 13:22.49 | pupnik | i think NeXT had smth like 4-bit for the mono slabs |
| 13:22.58 | pupnik | when you ran the x server built for it |
| 13:23.00 | RST38h | 4bits is a valid depth |
| 13:23.06 | pupnik | (it didnt normally run one) |
| 13:23.08 | RST38h | not very useful but valid |
| 13:23.19 | pupnik | mhm |
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| 13:23.42 | pupnik | mono saved you cpu cycles back then :) |
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| 13:25.48 | jaska | shivers at 8bit directcolor and private colormaps |
| 13:26.49 | RST38h | 8bit directcolor is still better than private colormaps |
| 13:26.54 | CShadowRun | lol i've just had a funny idea for the n900, you could install epsxe on it and use it as a psp |
| 13:27.06 | CShadowRun | the n900 meets the minimum requirements |
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| 13:27.09 | RST38h | What a fresh idea! |
| 13:27.17 | RST38h | Amazing. |
| 13:27.20 | qwerty12_N810 | psX |
| 13:27.33 | CShadowRun | RST38h, sarcasm? D: |
| 13:27.33 | pupnik | :) |
| 13:27.53 | lcuk | CShadowRun duuuuuuude, thats it |
| 13:28.12 | pupnik | epsxe would get estimated 2-3 fps |
| 13:28.12 | lcuk | hey qwerty12_N810 \o |
| 13:28.22 | RST38h | moo qwerty |
| 13:28.26 | lcuk | but they would be sweeeeeeeeeeet fps |
| 13:28.29 | qwerty12_N810 | Hullo lcuk, how's things? |
| 13:28.35 | qwerty12_N810 | Hi RST38h :) |
| 13:28.36 | CShadowRun | pupnik, aww, the phone does go above the minimum requirements |
| 13:28.38 | pupnik | or pcsx rather |
| 13:28.40 | Corsac | you only need scummvm anyway |
| 13:28.45 | Corsac | and it already works on n8x0 |
| 13:28.45 | pupnik | not for pcsx |
| 13:29.04 | pupnik | psx4all could run on it though |
| 13:29.22 | lcuk | bah! at emulation again tho. |
| 13:29.22 | lcuk | goes and hacks the future |
| 13:29.23 | pupnik | mhm yep |
| 13:29.29 | CShadowRun | haha |
| 13:29.52 | CShadowRun | could definatly get some snes/megadrive in there at any rate |
| 13:29.54 | pupnik | CShadowRun: are you interested in porting emus? |
| 13:30.11 | CShadowRun | nah i'm nowhere near that skilled |
| 13:30.20 | CShadowRun | i was just thinking it'd be cool. |
| 13:30.36 | pupnik | ok, what systems would you like most on tablets? |
| 13:31.03 | CShadowRun | well probably playstation being the main |
| 13:31.21 | pupnik | k |
| 13:31.25 | CShadowRun | i wonder if you could port wii and make use of the accelerometer |
| 13:31.28 | CShadowRun | that would be fun |
| 13:31.34 | CShadowRun | but wii is probably too much for the phone |
| 13:32.02 | CShadowRun | i'd say playstation, snes, mame, megadrive, gamecube, dreamcast |
| 13:32.05 | CShadowRun | in order of popularity |
| 13:32.11 | lcuk | why not just play real good games on the device as it stands |
| 13:32.26 | CShadowRun | i thought of that too, i wonder what games it could run :P |
| 13:32.28 | timo2 | let's not forget amiga |
| 13:32.41 | CShadowRun | oh amiga...i grew up on one of those things...how could i forget :P |
| 13:32.43 | pupnik | javispedro's snes port is great fun. the music in the rpgs is so pretty on those n810 speakers |
| 13:32.51 | timo2 | although even e-uae is a bit dead these days |
| 13:32.52 | pupnik | it kind of gets 3-dimensional |
| 13:32.55 | CShadowRun | cool :D |
| 13:33.07 | pupnik | esp @ 32000hz -imo |
| 13:33.38 | CShadowRun | hehe |
| 13:33.55 | pupnik | you know that playstation emulator runs on n8x0? |
| 13:33.59 | pupnik | pcsx from linux |
| 13:34.28 | CShadowRun | youtubes that |
| 13:34.44 | pupnik | i didn't upload to youtube |
| 13:34.47 | CShadowRun | aww |
| 13:34.59 | pupnik | because it runs 60-70 fpm |
| 13:35.00 | CShadowRun | how well does that work? |
| 13:35.09 | pupnik | or 50-70 |
| 13:35.13 | CShadowRun | haha |
| 13:35.17 | CShadowRun | 1fps basically |
| 13:35.21 | RST38h | I guess this can be improved |
| 13:35.22 | pupnik | yup |
| 13:35.32 | RST38h | we have got ogles |
| 13:35.52 | CShadowRun | the n900 has a bit more processing power though, so we can get that up |
| 13:35.56 | pupnik | psx4gp2x at 290mhz gets smth like 12-18fps? |
| 13:36.06 | RST38h | and I kinda doubt generic MIPS emulation is optimal for ARM |
| 13:36.14 | pupnik | the point is, don't expect a PC-app to run fast on an ARM |
| 13:36.56 | pupnik | well that's way too general |
| 13:37.03 | pupnik | rather, an emulator of a heavy system like psx |
| 13:37.32 | unixSnob | after installing Qt, I noticed I don't have af-sb-init.sh or run-standalone.sh. What package am I missing? |
| 13:39.05 | CShadowRun | the other thing i'd find really fun, is running empathy |
| 13:39.12 | CShadowRun | or pidgin |
| 13:39.29 | Corsac | I guess a telepathy client is installed |
| 13:39.32 | Corsac | as in the n8x0 |
| 13:41.44 | pupnik | hildon-initscripts? osso-af-startup? unixSnob |
| 13:42.12 | unixSnob | pupnik: i'll check it out.. those packages don't sound familiar so I'm probably missing them |
| 13:42.29 | pupnik | what OS version |
| 13:43.19 | pupnik | i don't know anything about fremantle or mer |
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| 13:44.07 | Summeli | pupnik: did you try psx4all with N800? |
| 13:44.26 | unixSnob | diablo |
| 13:44.52 | Summeli | I got that running in symbian in couple of hours :P |
| 13:45.00 | Summeli | should be quite easy to port to maemo |
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| 13:51.41 | pupnik | not yet |
| 13:51.55 | pupnik | go for it |
| 13:52.24 | pupnik | :) |
| 13:52.42 | unixSnob | pupnik: those packages aren't even choices in this chrooted lenny that i've set up; but I see that the run-standalone.sh is installed on my device |
| 13:52.51 | Summeli | I have N810, but not enough time :) |
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| 13:53.07 | Summeli | maybe I'll try that with N900, when it comes out :P |
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| 13:59.26 | unixSnob | desides to just put a warning in the wiki article that a step is missing, and let someone else figure it out |
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| 14:28.12 | Robin_Watts | ok, gents. I'm, back with a completely clean copy of the MaemoSDK running in a VMware player instance on windows XP. |
| 14:29.11 | Robin_Watts | What I really want to do is to be able to test some simple ARM code that uses ARMv6/7 stuff within the emulated machine. |
| 14:30.26 | Robin_Watts | I foolishly thought that the easiest way to do that would be to take a simple "hello world" example, and then just tag a bit of extra code onto that - but then I hit all the problems I was talking about earlier. |
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| 14:31.08 | Robin_Watts | To start with, it's telling me that there are "Software updates available". Do I ignore that? |
| 14:32.35 | RST38h | Robin: What problems? |
| 14:33.42 | Robin_Watts | I tried to use ESbox but found that I couldn't make it rebuild etc - it would pretend to do something but never give me any results/errors or change the final binary. |
| 14:33.55 | RST38h | Ok, hint #1: Do not use ESBox |
| 14:34.06 | Robin_Watts | So I've reverted to a clean slate in the hopes that I can get further. |
| 14:34.12 | Robin_Watts | OK, that sounds like a really great hint :) |
| 14:34.26 | RST38h | Hint #2: Find a hello world example that does not use autoconf (Maemo3 docs/howtos) |
| 14:34.39 | RST38h | Hint #3: Use the "make" command |
| 14:35.37 | Robin_Watts | That sounds great. Any URLs for hint #2 would be hugely greatly appreciated. |
| 14:35.56 | RST38h | Hint #4: Your plain linux hello world will compile and work on maemo: | #include <stdio.h> | int main(int argc,char *argv[]) { printf("Hello world\n");return(0); } |
| 14:36.30 | RST38h | It will not be able to use the UI, but it WILL compile to ARM code and WILL run (unless you get burned by the ARM emulator in the SDK) |
| 14:37.15 | Robin_Watts | A hello world example on linux I can manage. It's the invocations for the scratchbox stuff that I have no clue about. |
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| 14:40.26 | RST38h | Robin: in the scratchbox console, type "make" first, then the name of your program |
| 14:40.40 | RST38h | Robin: it should run transparently (in theory) |
| 14:41.30 | Robin_Watts | Woo Hoo! |
| 14:41.46 | Robin_Watts | My mistake was trying to use ESbox. |
| 14:41.51 | Robin_Watts | many thanks everyone. |
| 14:46.45 | pupnik | Robin_Watts: hey where did you get the missing vmware file? |
| 14:47.56 | pupnik | you using this? http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/index.html |
| 14:48.20 | pupnik | Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Server_SDK_Virtual_Image.zip 220638937 |
| 14:48.21 | pupnik | ? |
| 14:48.33 | pupnik | or Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image.zip ? |
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| 14:51.27 | Robin_Watts | Desktop. |
| 14:51.39 | Robin_Watts | What missing vmware file ? |
| 14:52.47 | *** join/#maemo GuySoft (n=guysoft@93-173-15-97.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 14:58.39 | pupnik | Robin_Watts: lemme check |
| 14:59.32 | pupnik | the vmx was missing from my download |
| 15:00.08 | pupnik | so i was putzing with one |
| 15:00.49 | Robin_Watts | My download has various readme files, and 2 useful files. blah.vmd and blah.vmdk |
| 15:01.14 | Robin_Watts | Sorry. blah.vmdk and blah.vmx |
| 15:01.22 | Robin_Watts | THe first is the 5Gig disk image. |
| 15:01.28 | pupnik | so vmplayer worked with the download right out of hte box? |
| 15:01.30 | Robin_Watts | The vmx is the tiny 3K config file. |
| 15:01.40 | Robin_Watts | Double click the config file, and VMplayer runs out of the box, yes. |
| 15:02.06 | pupnik | did you use hardy or intrepid, desktop or server? |
| 15:02.23 | Robin_Watts | intrepid desktop |
| 15:02.28 | pupnik | k |
| 15:03.05 | Robin_Watts | Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image.zip |
| 15:04.08 | Robin_Watts | has to head out to fix another computer. joy. bbl. Thanks all. |
| 15:04.12 | pupnik | maybe it's the mega computer-god controller interfering with my tv-eyes reception |
| 15:04.13 | pupnik | ty |
| 15:04.18 | ccooke | It's not currently possible to install osm2go, is it? |
| 15:06.32 | *** join/#maemo igagis (n=igagis@ns2.vsev.lanck.net) |
| 15:09.46 | lbt | lcuk: Oi |
| 15:15.50 | *** join/#maemo baze (n=baze@e179090016.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:18.58 | *** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
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| 15:56.36 | *** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
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| 15:59.27 | jorma | hello |
| 15:59.54 | jorma | I followed the link on the maemo wiki |
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| 16:03.53 | lcuk | lbt, wot? |
| 16:03.57 | wazd | konttori: heya, can I ask questions bout Theme Maker? :) |
| 16:04.04 | konttori | sure |
| 16:04.09 | lbt | lcuk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPXyES0-9-Q |
| 16:04.12 | RST38h | moo wazd, konttori |
| 16:04.18 | *** join/#maemo ignacius (n=ignacius@142.Red-88-17-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 16:04.23 | wazd | RST38h: reheya :) |
| 16:04.28 | RST38h | konttori: btw, wanted to ask a question about theme maker too |
| 16:04.31 | lcuk | i just saw - apologies went park with fam |
| 16:04.34 | wazd | konttori: first of all it doesn't work :D |
| 16:04.35 | lcuk | thats cool |
| 16:04.43 | lcuk | how does it work on n900 |
| 16:04.44 | wazd | konttori: goes to 1% and stops |
| 16:04.52 | lbt | lcuk: come and try it |
| 16:04.57 | konttori | wazd: you need to select also the icon template |
| 16:04.58 | konttori | sorry |
| 16:05.04 | lcuk | hows it connected |
| 16:05.09 | wazd | konttori: did it but nothing happened |
| 16:05.11 | lbt | usb-A |
| 16:05.17 | konttori | wazd: osx? |
| 16:05.29 | RST38h | konttori: Is it possible to theme scroll list backgrounds in Fremantle? |
| 16:05.30 | wazd | konttori: Vista, latest Java |
| 16:05.53 | RST38h | konttori: [namely, replace plain black with something resembling a drum, iPhone style?] |
| 16:06.02 | konttori | wazd: ah, that might explain it. i haven't tested it at all on windows yet |
| 16:06.06 | lcuk | lbt, how far are you |
| 16:06.16 | wazd | konttori: well, that's not urgent :) |
| 16:06.27 | lbt | Reading :) |
| 16:06.31 | konttori | wazd: hmm... can you make a .bat file? |
| 16:06.37 | wazd | konttori: another question bout template layout |
| 16:06.39 | lbt | just kidding .... for now |
| 16:06.40 | konttori | I can tell you what to put in there. |
| 16:06.47 | wazd | konttori: well, yep:) |
| 16:06.55 | lcuk | i know.. |
| 16:06.59 | lcuk | but for reference lol |
| 16:07.09 | konttori | wazd: put in there: java -Xms512m -Xmx1024m -jar /Users/urhokonttori/Documents/Projects/ThemeMaker/ThemeMaker1.2.1/MaemoThemeMaker.jar |
| 16:07.29 | konttori | eh, of course the path being what you have yourself as the location of the jar file |
| 16:07.36 | lbt | it's usb-b |
| 16:07.45 | konttori | or just: java -Xms512m -Xmx1024m -jar ./MaemoThemeMaker.jar |
| 16:07.47 | wazd | konttori: in the Thumb Keyboard section, there are two types of Keyboard buttons, they look identical. What's the difference between them? |
| 16:07.51 | lbt | so we need a mini-usb -> usb-B |
| 16:07.54 | lcuk | would most likely need a bluetooth serial pusher - im not even sure what the usb on here is |
| 16:08.05 | lcuk | ive got a standard f-f hackjob |
| 16:08.06 | konttori | that might or might not work, depending on how windows likes to handle things on command line |
| 16:08.14 | lcuk | i used it with my 810 to connect a kb |
| 16:08.18 | lbt | yep |
| 16:08.23 | lcuk | i should be able to use the same hack |
| 16:08.32 | *** join/#maemo jnettlet_ (n=jnettlet@216-19-186-197.dyn.novuscom.net) |
| 16:08.49 | konttori | wazd: the common and keyboard? |
| 16:09.41 | wazd | under "keyboard buttons" there are 4 rectangles |
| 16:09.42 | lbt | http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270451345146 |
| 16:09.47 | lbt | lcuk: ^^^ ? |
| 16:09.50 | lcuk | this is what the tinker.it people used http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=134&osCsid=j90j5kqfegquksdbumahtmuqg5 |
| 16:09.51 | wazd | konttori: 2 pressed and 2 released |
| 16:10.00 | wazd | konttori: and only 1 disabled |
| 16:10.02 | lcuk | heh yeah for later |
| 16:10.12 | lcuk | just not for what i needed on a sunday night |
| 16:10.14 | wazd | konttori: common are on the left :) |
| 16:10.33 | wazd | konttori: oh, that bat helped, thx! |
| 16:10.53 | wazd | konttori: or not really, stopped at 23% :( |
| 16:11.13 | konttori | wazd: does the command line of the bat show anything? |
| 16:11.52 | wazd | konttori: lots of things :) |
| 16:12.07 | konttori | wazd: can you pastebin |
| 16:12.16 | wazd | konttori: something is outside raster it says |
| 16:13.12 | wazd | konttori: http://pastebin.com/m25e6e104 |
| 16:13.13 | konttori | the right column on the keys is for the accent variation |
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| 16:14.00 | konttori | wazd: do you have the correct bacgrounds template? |
| 16:14.18 | konttori | looks like it's issue in the second row of the bacgrounds. |
| 16:14.36 | konttori | hmm... maybe I should catch those errors. |
| 16:14.45 | wazd | konttori: oh, my bad |
| 16:15.03 | wazd | konttori: what are they for btw? :) |
| 16:15.47 | konttori | you mean the second row? |
| 16:15.57 | wazd | konttori: yep |
| 16:16.10 | konttori | it's for startup bg, then media player bg, then I'll add a few others there as well. |
| 16:16.15 | wazd | konttori: I thought it was like an example and deleted them :) |
| 16:16.20 | konttori | nope. |
| 16:16.26 | wazd | konttori: oh, got it |
| 16:16.28 | konttori | so, works for you now? |
| 16:19.14 | wazd | konttori: processing :) |
| 16:19.32 | konttori | RST38h: what did you want to ask? |
| 16:19.51 | wazd | konttori: yep, .deb is ready, thanks a lot! |
| 16:19.55 | konttori | wazd: oh, I forgot to tell you that you'll need also one more tool for windows. |
| 16:20.10 | konttori | the deb won't work yet. |
| 16:21.47 | wazd | RST38h: I think color only |
| 16:21.59 | wazd | RST38h: Can't see proper template part for that :) |
| 16:22.40 | konttori | wazd: what are you trying to do? |
| 16:23.03 | wazd | konttori: RST38h asked if pannable area backgrounds can be skinned with wallpaper |
| 16:23.18 | konttori | yes, they can be skinned. |
| 16:23.28 | wazd | konttori: oh? :) |
| 16:23.47 | konttori | that's what the 4 wallpapers extracted from the backgrounds templates first row are for |
| 16:23.49 | Robin_Watts | Next problem: I can compile a C file using: "cc helloworld.c -o helloworld" and it works fine. |
| 16:23.55 | konttori | oh, pannable area. sorry |
| 16:24.05 | wazd | konttori: nono, not homescreen |
| 16:24.08 | konttori | nope, only color. I misunderstood you meant the home screen. |
| 16:24.13 | Robin_Watts | I can compile a C file to get the .o file using "cc -c helloworld.c -o helloworld.o" |
| 16:24.24 | konttori | so, pannable area is single color thing |
| 16:25.28 | Robin_Watts | My attempts to link using "ld helloworld.o -o helloworld -lc" work, but it then dies complaining it can't find /usr/lib/ld.so1 when I run it. Any clues ? |
| 16:27.02 | konttori | wazd: if you are testing on scratchbox, it's easiest that you don't try to use the deb, but instead just copy the THEMENAME/usr/themes/THEMENAME folder directly to the sb. |
| 16:27.19 | konttori | as the deb creation does not yet work on windows. |
| 16:28.00 | wazd | konttori: I'm not testing anything yet, cause I'm too dumb to set up scratchbox :) |
| 16:28.33 | wazd | konttori: Just drawing stuff :) |
| 16:28.58 | konttori | ok. cool. I'll check if I can fix the windows deb creation now. |
| 16:29.34 | wazd | konttori: that would be awesome :) |
| 16:33.30 | pupnik | my maemo vmware image is in a reboot loop |
| 16:33.31 | RST38h | Robin: Link with cc |
| 16:33.46 | RST38h | Robin: cc knows what to link against |
| 16:34.36 | Robin_Watts | Woo Hoo! |
| 16:34.38 | Robin_Watts | Thanks. |
| 16:35.21 | konttori | wazd: otoh, you won't need it really until you have an n900 |
| 16:36.30 | wazd | konttori: cool, that's a distant mark :D |
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| 16:56.27 | RST38h | This is how you hold an 4.3" phone in your hand: http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2009/09/500x_htc-leo.jpg |
| 16:56.29 | *** join/#maemo warp10 (n=andrea@93-42-162-0.ip87.fastwebnet.it) |
| 16:56.57 | Stskeeps | portrait? |
| 16:57.39 | RST38h | Of course |
| 16:57.50 | *** join/#maemo Andy80 (n=andy80@84.123.86.203.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 16:58.30 | RST38h | rumor also has ti that this beast has got a capacitive multitouch display |
| 17:00.40 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, -1, Redundant. |
| 17:01.39 | *** join/#maemo rektide (i=rektide@204.11.35.230) |
| 17:01.46 | qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: But it appears to run Windows Mobile ;) |
| 17:02.01 | lcuk | RST38h, original ngage had 5" |
| 17:02.42 | RST38h | General: the size, the capacitive, or the multitouch, or is it -3? =) |
| 17:02.46 | wazd | Leo's hardware looks sexy |
| 17:02.54 | RST38h | qwerty: Yep. Crossing it out. |
| 17:03.22 | wazd | don't like that buttons row much, but anyway :) |
| 17:03.23 | RST38h | lcuk: No way??? The original ngage was a little 176x208 thing |
| 17:03.35 | wazd | RST38h: he mean the device itself |
| 17:03.42 | RST38h | Ah :) |
| 17:03.44 | *** join/#maemo dolphin (n=dolphin@unaffiliated/dolphin) |
| 17:03.52 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, calling a display "capacitive multitouch" is redundant. |
| 17:04.03 | GeneralAntilles | There aren't any non-multitouch capacitive displays. |
| 17:04.10 | RST38h | General: Well, G1 was capacitive with multitouch not supported by the OS |
| 17:04.25 | *** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=CBabbage@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 17:04.29 | RST38h | General: In this thing, HTC apparently shoehorned multitouch support onto WinMo |
| 17:05.15 | wazd | GeneralAntilles: resistive multitouch is okay? :) |
| 17:05.52 | glass | x6 isn't multitouch either(i think at least, on os levle) |
| 17:06.03 | glass | and mt is possible with resistive so.. |
| 17:06.13 | RST38h | yea, it is apparently generic S60e5, at least for now |
| 17:07.58 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: sure there is |
| 17:08.02 | luke-jr | multitouch is a software feature |
| 17:08.11 | luke-jr | capacitive is a hardware thing |
| 17:08.14 | GeneralAntilles | Multitouch is both. |
| 17:08.30 | GeneralAntilles | Resistive displays don't generally support multitouch. |
| 17:08.35 | GeneralAntilles | and it's not a software issue. |
| 17:08.36 | luke-jr | that's up to the software |
| 17:08.38 | RST38h | GA is correct, it is both |
| 17:08.39 | luke-jr | yes it is |
| 17:08.39 | Robin_Watts | The assembler in maemo doesn't know about NEON instructions, is that right ? |
| 17:08.45 | GeneralAntilles | No, it's not. |
| 17:08.47 | GeneralAntilles | You can fake it. |
| 17:08.51 | GeneralAntilles | But it's not really multitouch. |
| 17:08.55 | luke-jr | software exists to support multitouch on resistive touchscreens |
| 17:08.58 | GeneralAntilles | Two-touch is the term you're after. |
| 17:08.58 | luke-jr | w/o hardware support |
| 17:08.59 | RST38h | Robin: yes |
| 17:09.02 | GeneralAntilles | No, it doesn't. |
| 17:09.04 | luke-jr | o |
| 17:09.06 | luke-jr | it only works for 2? |
| 17:09.07 | RST38h | Robin: known problem, assembler is outdated |
| 17:09.19 | RST38h | Robin: What toolchain are you using btw? |
| 17:09.21 | GeneralAntilles | It only works when you add a touch point. |
| 17:09.26 | GeneralAntilles | Talk to lcuk about the specifics. |
| 17:09.30 | GeneralAntilles | But it isn't multitouch. |
| 17:09.36 | Robin_Watts | GeneralAntilles: Is it easy to update the assembler, or is that asking for a world of pain? |
| 17:09.51 | GeneralAntilles | Robin_Watts, talk to RST38h. |
| 17:09.56 | Robin_Watts | I've downloaded Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image.zip and I'm using whatever the toolchain in that is :) |
| 17:10.15 | RST38h | Robin: run maemo-sdk and find out what toolchain you are using |
| 17:10.27 | Robin_Watts | sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL ? |
| 17:10.34 | RST38h | Robin: No |
| 17:10.44 | RST38h | Robin: From your x86 Linux prompt, run maemo-dsk |
| 17:10.45 | RST38h | sdk |
| 17:10.51 | RST38h | Robin: and press 3, then 2 |
| 17:11.51 | Robin_Watts | maemo-sdk: command not found |
| 17:15.33 | RST38h | oh shit he is using goddamn sb1... |
| 17:15.36 | RST38h | facepalms |
| 17:16.59 | RST38h | Anyways, there IS CodeSourcery 2009q1 ARM toolchain for Linux. Yours is probably something like 2007q3 |
| 17:17.00 | Robin_Watts | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php was where I got it from I think. |
| 17:17.19 | RST38h | Yes, there is a certain problem with what you download there... |
| 17:17.23 | Robin_Watts | Sorry, have I done something monumentally dim ? |
| 17:17.30 | RST38h | No, you are not to blame |
| 17:18.01 | RST38h | The instructions there are tried and they work, but they are a little bit dated |
| 17:18.38 | RST38h | In any case, let me check for a moment if Nokia offers 2009q1 toolchain and how you can add it to sb1 |
| 17:19.09 | RST38h | You want Maemo4 or Maemo5? |
| 17:19.36 | Robin_Watts | cc --verbose says cs2005/q3.2 |
| 17:20.04 | Robin_Watts | I don't think I care - I just really want an emulated box on which I can compile c and test ARM v6/v7/NEON |
| 17:20.44 | lcuk | RST38h, original ngage 134mm long, 5.2inch http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n_gage-390.php |
| 17:21.01 | RST38h | lcuk: And some people still used it to call! =) |
| 17:21.06 | Robin_Watts | In the absence of having up to date hardware, this seems like a smart way to test my optimisations to theora :) |
| 17:21.36 | lcuk | Robin_Watts, from experience i just optimized like hell for the n8x0 and it worked a treat |
| 17:21.54 | lcuk | i got a more than usable experience there and i have a super experience here |
| 17:22.09 | RST38h | Robin: Ok. 2005 is *old* |
| 17:22.18 | glass | RST38h: it was a good upgrade over 3650, as it had just enough more mem to multitask properly |
| 17:22.31 | RST38h | Robin: I would suggest you to use sb2 SDK, but am kinda afraid to do so |
| 17:22.51 | RST38h | glass: It was not a good upgrade of 3650. It had exactly the same hw, in an awkward case. |
| 17:23.06 | glass | RST38h: not exactly. it had more ram |
| 17:23.09 | RST38h | glass: <I actually liked my 3650, as weird as it sounds :)> |
| 17:23.16 | glass | RST38h: 3.4mb free vs 10mb+ |
| 17:23.19 | Robin_Watts | RST38h: Oh, is that within the same SDK I've already got ? |
| 17:23.21 | glass | i had a 3650 too |
| 17:23.25 | glass | liked the keypad |
| 17:23.28 | glass | freaky as that sounds |
| 17:23.29 | *** join/#maemo dolphin (n=dolphin@unaffiliated/dolphin) |
| 17:23.34 | RST38h | Robin: Nope. |
| 17:24.08 | RST38h | Robin: For SB2, you will have to scratch the whole thing, install MaemoSDK+ repo under your Linux and install SB2 from there |
| 17:24.17 | RST38h | Robin: But let us ignore that route for now |
| 17:24.43 | Robin_Watts | Can I use sb-menu to install a new target maybe ? |
| 17:25.07 | RST38h | Robin: You can, but the idea is to install a new TOOLCHAIN |
| 17:25.18 | RST38h | Robin: Does sb-menu let you list available toolchains? |
| 17:25.26 | GeneralAntilles | Robin_Watts, you want Maemo 5 for NEON. |
| 17:25.43 | Robin_Watts | "Install files to a target" |
| 17:25.53 | RST38h | General: He only needs a new toolchain that knows about neon |
| 17:26.00 | RST38h | General: The rest of his stuff should be fine |
| 17:26.10 | RST38h | Robin: No, wrong option |
| 17:26.19 | ShadowJK | wants a diablo toolchain that knows about vfp |
| 17:26.37 | Robin_Watts | Show target shows DIABLO_ARMEL cs2005q3.1-glibc2.5-arm |
| 17:26.47 | Robin_Watts | and an equivalent DIABLO_X86 |
| 17:26.56 | RST38h | General: BTW, mark this URL: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_4-0_tutorial/#Quick-Start |
| 17:27.08 | RST38h | General: This little example should ABSOLUTELY be in the Maemo5 docs |
| 17:27.38 | RST38h | General: Because 1) it is the shortest Maemo programming intro possible and 2) It does not make people think they have to use autotools |
| 17:27.59 | RST38h | Robin: Ok. Your target is what system you are targeting |
| 17:28.18 | Robin_Watts | The options in sb-menu are: Exit/Setup a target/Install files to a target/Extract Rootstraps/Activate a target/Reset a target/Remove a target/Show target information/kill all processes in scratchbox |
| 17:28.20 | RST38h | Robin: DIABLO_X86 means diablo running on your PC |
| 17:28.29 | Robin_Watts | yes. |
| 17:28.39 | RST38h | Robin; DIABLO_ARMEL means diablo running on your tablet |
| 17:28.55 | RST38h | Robin: Now, Diablo is a previous version of the OS, it ran on hardware that had no neon |
| 17:28.57 | Robin_Watts | urm... DIABLO running under emulation, surely? |
| 17:29.01 | RST38h | Robin: Yes. |
| 17:29.27 | RST38h | Robin: So, in order to at least have Neon support in the OS, you should start by getting FREMANTLE targets |
| 17:29.49 | Robin_Watts | ok... |
| 17:30.09 | RST38h | Robin; This is done by downloading and installing a Fremantle rootstrap |
| 17:30.14 | RST38h | Robin: And also the toolchain |
| 17:31.36 | Robin_Watts | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:31.46 | Robin_Watts | according to the readme for the image I downloaded. |
| 17:33.02 | RST38h | Robin:Oh |
| 17:33.24 | RST38h | Robin: Have you got an Ubuntu Linux machine nearby? |
| 17:33.48 | Robin_Watts | The virtual image I'm running is a Ubuntu Linux machine... |
| 17:34.06 | RST38h | isn't sure if e had to suggest this |
| 17:34.43 | RST38h | Robin: Get rid of SB1. Install this: http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/install.html |
| 17:34.47 | Robin_Watts | (I've got a Windows XP machine in front of me. It's running VMware player with that virtual image. So in a window I have an ubuntu linux box. That's the only linux box to hand) |
| 17:35.02 | RST38h | Robin: Once you get it installed, run maemo-sdk and look at the options carefully |
| 17:35.34 | RST38h | Robin: It will let you install toolchains and rootstraps. You want Fremantle ARMEL rootstrap with the latest available toolchain (2007q3 if not 2009q1) |
| 17:36.58 | RST38h | Robin: Also, SB2 lets you run commands inside itself by typing "sb2 <command>" |
| 17:37.38 | Robin_Watts | I'm tempted to use the Maemo SDK installation wizard in the Maemo ESBox environment to install the fremantle stuff. |
| 17:38.00 | Robin_Watts | That should get me the appropriate target/toolchain, right ? |
| 17:38.36 | RST38h | Robin; Well, it will at least give you some control of the SB |
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| 17:54.08 | Robin_Watts | freemantle5.0beta1_armel 2009-04-28 |
| 17:54.15 | Robin_Watts | that one ? |
| 17:56.03 | andre__ | isn't there a beta2?' |
| 17:56.19 | andre__ | and it should be fremantle, not freemantle :-P |
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| 17:58.18 | RST38h | Robin: SDK+ only got Beta1, so get it |
| 17:58.36 | RST38h | Robin: It will be sufficient for your purposes, hopefully |
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| 18:05.28 | joppu | Hello everyone! |
| 18:05.46 | joppu | So, where can I find the Fremantle GUI .psd? |
| 18:05.53 | joppu | There is no link |
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| 18:09.02 | keesj | what is psd? |
| 18:09.16 | joppu | keesj: photoshop file |
| 18:09.22 | keesj | thanks |
| 18:09.59 | keesj | you are searching for a theme or something right? |
| 18:10.13 | wazd | joppu: there is a link, watch closer |
| 18:10.45 | joppu | wazd: They are all for the docs (pdfs), aren't they? |
| 18:10.49 | *** join/#maemo fnordianslip (n=fnoridan@94-30-69-47.xdsl.murphx.net) |
| 18:11.46 | wazd | joppu: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/6646/Maemo_5_GUI_0_9.zip |
| 18:12.04 | joppu | and where that was located? |
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| 18:12.10 | wazd | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Human_Interface_Guidelines/GUI_Design_Template |
| 18:12.10 | joppu | Oh and thanks :) |
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| 18:47.37 | mojocafe | good evening everyone. can anyone tell me if java will work on MER !? I would like to know if i will be able to play the fulltilt poker client on my n800 :) |
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| 18:48.21 | luke-jr | mojocafe: no. |
| 18:49.00 | mojocafe | ah ok - sad. thanks luke :( |
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| 18:57.18 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (n=user@85.Red-79-158-189.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
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| 19:01.13 | b-man16 | mojocafe: you (might) if you install the ARM version of Java SE |
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| 19:03.21 | b-man16 | although the ARM version is still incomplete :( |
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| 19:04.58 | ShadowJK | question is if he's trying to run a Java SE program or if he's trying to run a JavaME program, or if he's trying to run a java applet |
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| 19:07.42 | javispedro | and if it is a java se app, wheter it is swt or swing |
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| 19:10.04 | lcuk | whatever happened to java is cross compatible and usable everywhere.. |
| 19:10.10 | lcuk | did that myth kinda fade |
| 19:10.39 | crashanddie_ | lcuk, no, still very much alive |
| 19:10.40 | luke-jr | never really was true |
| 19:10.52 | crashanddie_ | lcuk, however, you can't really expect an application written for 1.6 to run on 1.4 |
| 19:10.57 | crashanddie_ | unless you compile it for 1.4 |
| 19:11.07 | javispedro | lcuk: not, but as usual, you need to limit yourself to the lowest common denominator. |
| 19:11.08 | crashanddie_ | however, the 1.4 application will run without problem on 1.6 |
| 19:11.18 | luke-jr | nowadays you could possibly use GCJ to recompile it native |
| 19:11.30 | luke-jr | lcuk: Qt is more cross-compatible than Java ever was ;) |
| 19:11.39 | crashanddie_ | bollocks |
| 19:11.40 | javispedro | luke-jr: no real benefit on gcj. |
| 19:11.41 | lcuk | so its good but its shit and it good again |
| 19:11.43 | luke-jr | except maybe cell phones and webpages |
| 19:12.01 | crashanddie_ | luke-jr, one word |
| 19:12.02 | luke-jr | javispedro: of course there are multiple |
| 19:12.04 | crashanddie_ | luke-jr, endian |
| 19:12.10 | luke-jr | crashanddie_: what about endian? |
| 19:12.25 | luke-jr | even good C code doesn't care about endian |
| 19:12.31 | lcuk | as in, this conversation is endian cos its makin my head spin |
| 19:12.34 | crashanddie_ | my point exactly, Qt isn't good C code |
| 19:12.42 | luke-jr | crashanddie_: Qt isn't C code at all |
| 19:12.46 | javispedro | luke-jr: none at all. hotspot is faster, memory usage is only a bit higher than gcj. |
| 19:13.07 | luke-jr | javispedro: you're assuming a single x86 platform, which is totally NOT the point |
| 19:13.19 | lcuk | well, based on this representative sample of opinions and facts, im going to suggest the only practical thing i can |
| 19:13.24 | luke-jr | GCJ should compile Java bytecode to any native architecture |
| 19:13.41 | lcuk | javispedro, fancy helping me build a visual basic compiler :) |
| 19:13.47 | crashanddie_ | LMAO |
| 19:14.07 | crashanddie_ | lcuk, read my blog |
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| 19:14.14 | luke-jr | lcuk: I had that as a goal like 15 years ago |
| 19:14.15 | luke-jr | :p |
| 19:14.16 | lcuk | link it again and i will |
| 19:14.22 | crashanddie_ | lcuk, I'm getting massive amounts of grief over my last article |
| 19:14.28 | lcuk | luke-jr, liq* projects start as vb forms |
| 19:14.32 | crashanddie_ | lcuk, published it maybe 5 minutes ago, and already got 2 mails from my boss |
| 19:14.40 | lcuk | then link it |
| 19:14.42 | crashanddie_ | lcuk, fuck off then, use your head or history :P |
| 19:14.47 | luke-jr | lcuk: wtf |
| 19:15.06 | luke-jr | why |
| 19:15.39 | crashanddie_ | because it's the language he's most comfortable with, and thus prototypes the quickest |
| 19:15.54 | luke-jr | ... |
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| 19:16.06 | luke-jr | VB forms aren't really even a language |
| 19:16.18 | luke-jr | I'm probably the only person to ever edit them without the IDE |
| 19:17.02 | lcuk | luke-jr, go look in the source |
| 19:17.02 | lcuk | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/l/liqpostcard/ |
| 19:17.05 | crashanddie_ | luke-jr, the tone doesn't suit you |
| 19:17.30 | lcuk | it always does - hes a heathen most of the time |
| 19:17.37 | javispedro | luke-jr: ah well, i didn't know gcj could target arm now |
| 19:17.41 | luke-jr | lcuk: the source doesn't answer what you edit them with |
| 19:17.57 | luke-jr | javispedro: GCJ is abstracted. Any language implemented in GCC can target any output. |
| 19:18.02 | lcuk | i dont have to prove that to you |
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| 19:18.13 | crashanddie__ | woa |
| 19:18.15 | lcuk | i simply stated i start most liq* projects as vb projects |
| 19:18.38 | luke-jr | in VB? |
| 19:18.40 | lcuk | prototype in windows, get the layouts correct |
| 19:18.41 | javispedro | luke-jr: but there's a runtime, even though I remember they used g++ one. |
| 19:18.47 | lcuk | i already know what code i want behind them |
| 19:18.48 | luke-jr | lcuk: why not Qt Designer? |
| 19:18.58 | lcuk | cos i cant build c++ code on tablet |
| 19:19.01 | lcuk | quickly |
| 19:19.13 | javispedro | (for exceptions, dynamic types, and all that) |
| 19:19.15 | crashanddie__ | luke-jr, because the world doesn't conform to a single language? |
| 19:19.17 | luke-jr | Qt Designer outputs an XML format... |
| 19:19.22 | lcuk | so? |
| 19:19.28 | luke-jr | you could parse it just as easily as VB6 forms |
| 19:19.35 | lcuk | i output C language directly from the vb ide |
| 19:19.40 | luke-jr | O.o |
| 19:19.49 | luke-jr | how? |
| 19:19.49 | lcuk | including full packaging info |
| 19:20.15 | lcuk | cos i wrote an addin which parses the forms and controls and makes everything i need |
| 19:20.21 | luke-jr | realizes converting VB code to Qt probably is trivial |
| 19:20.24 | lcuk | as crash said, im comfortable there |
| 19:21.03 | lcuk | i can do vb with my hands behind my back - so i use the ide to help :) |
| 19:21.08 | lcuk | computers are tools.. |
| 19:22.00 | luke-jr | lcuk: when I need to deal with VB, the first thing I do is write a Makefile to use WINE to build it in a UNIX fashon |
| 19:22.03 | luke-jr | then I rewrite it in C |
| 19:22.05 | luke-jr | or Qt |
| 19:22.28 | javispedro | did use vb6, and he remebers it was dead easy, buy the language and its quirks are the horror |
| 19:22.35 | luke-jr | heh |
| 19:22.39 | slonopotamus | just doesn't touch vb |
| 19:22.43 | crashanddie__ | best richard cheese cover: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut_ndgSUaA8&feature=related |
| 19:22.50 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: I had to for work... |
| 19:22.52 | lcuk | first thing i do is make some basic layouts in vb - that gives me a project like this: http://liqbase.net/liqbase_media.php?username=lcuk&id=369 |
| 19:23.05 | lcuk | which i then go and make work (which ive been doing this weekend) |
| 19:23.07 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: the company bought some other company's product, and I was expected to modify it for their purposes |
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| 19:23.41 | luke-jr | ponders writing a simple WM for his N810 |
| 19:23.52 | lcuk | javispedro, i dont touch the language at all, but it would be nice to one day allow direct code import too |
| 19:24.08 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, johnsq is already writing one |
| 19:24.10 | lcuk | luke-jr, theres plenty of wms already available |
| 19:24.20 | luke-jr | lcuk: none that suit the N810 ideally |
| 19:24.23 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: he is? |
| 19:24.34 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, he is |
| 19:24.34 | lcuk | luke, but it suits the stuff im writing |
| 19:24.47 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: ok. Qt4, right? |
| 19:24.57 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, plain X :) |
| 19:25.16 | luke-jr | pfft |
| 19:25.58 | slonopotamus | can't understand how big his monitor has to be in order to use xmonad |
| 19:25.59 | javispedro | lcuk: direct code from vb? pfft. |
| 19:26.10 | lcuk | javispedro, its easier than you tihnk |
| 19:26.14 | javispedro | what is needed is a point-and-click guy |
| 19:26.16 | lcuk | a basic parser is a nice thing to have |
| 19:26.21 | lcuk | liqdesign |
| 19:26.27 | lcuk | drag drop resize move |
| 19:26.30 | lcuk | on device |
| 19:26.34 | javispedro | draw control, double click to edit "onClick" handler |
| 19:26.35 | crashanddie__ | X-Fade_, when do we get confirmation for people on the waiting list? |
| 19:26.40 | lcuk | nods |
| 19:26.44 | javispedro | s/guy/gui |
| 19:26.52 | lcuk | liqdesign in the playground |
| 19:26.56 | crashanddie__ | X-Fade_, I can't book my accommodation until I get confirmation? |
| 19:27.03 | javispedro | no signals no custom widgets just for writing a handler |
| 19:27.08 | lcuk | theres more than onclick required |
| 19:27.14 | lcuk | but the principle is right javis |
| 19:27.37 | javispedro | lcuk: you'd like Mono. |
| 19:27.38 | lcuk | you need style and behaviour editing for each tile |
| 19:27.43 | lcuk | no, i wouldnt |
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| 19:27.54 | lcuk | well |
| 19:27.59 | lcuk | i like the language |
| 19:28.04 | lcuk | i dont like any ide ive seen |
| 19:28.05 | javispedro | i wonder why there's not a thriving Mono ecosystem on tablets? |
| 19:28.24 | lcuk | there probably is, have you seen the levels of cleanliness |
| 19:30.07 | javispedro | not even mono runtime in extras |
| 19:30.38 | lcuk | javispedro, the lack of a strong non winforms widgetset upsets the cart for mono/.net |
| 19:30.46 | lcuk | most are done in winforms |
| 19:30.49 | javispedro | gtk# |
| 19:30.57 | lcuk | and if they would just work globally then it would be great |
| 19:31.20 | lcuk | but most devs dont use gtk on windows |
| 19:31.33 | lcuk | they use normal winforms - cos the ide works with it |
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| 19:31.37 | crashanddie__ | gtk sucks for multi-platform stuff |
| 19:31.50 | javispedro | ah, well. |
| 19:31.52 | lcuk | its not bad in windows |
| 19:31.59 | lcuk | its just not the default |
| 19:32.32 | lcuk | and when you come across a problem in windows you just go banging the winapi |
| 19:32.35 | javispedro | lcuk: i consider monodevelop "enough point-and-clicky". |
| 19:32.47 | lcuk | nods |
| 19:33.00 | jaska | lcuk: banging winapi is closely related to banging head to a wall |
| 19:33.11 | lcuk | firmly agrees |
| 19:34.04 | lcuk | there are still times tho that its the only real way to get things done |
| 19:34.12 | crashanddie__ | click-o-dromes are horrible pieces of technology |
| 19:34.24 | lcuk | rich text support and printing you have to talk to win for |
| 19:34.51 | crashanddie__ | bye crashanddie_ |
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| 19:36.11 | lcuk | crashanddie, im not gonna find your blog in the 1000s of links i have here |
| 19:36.38 | crashanddie | though |
| 19:36.51 | crashanddie | s/th/t/ |
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| 19:47.46 | RST38h | heya javis |
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| 19:49.18 | andre__ | gnarf. why doesn't everybody have exactly my definition of "common sense"? world would be so much easier... |
| 19:50.25 | RST38h | andre: Start by adjusting your own and they will come... |
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| 19:52.42 | RST38h | "Using data from Facebook, two students in an MIT class on ethics and law on the electronic frontier made a striking discovery: just by looking at a person's online friends, they could predict whether the person was gay." |
| 19:52.59 | RST38h | (bonus points for calling the project "Gaydar" of course =)) |
| 19:53.10 | AStorm | lol |
| 19:53.24 | AStorm | that's simple really |
| 19:53.35 | AStorm | you can train a neural network or other classifier |
| 19:53.36 | andre__ | is there an app that simply calculates the percentage value so i can run it automatically on all facebook accounts? |
| 19:53.46 | derf | AStorm: What are you using for training data? |
| 19:53.53 | AStorm | known gays? |
| 19:53.59 | *** join/#maemo jnettlet_ (n=jnettlet@216-19-186-197.dyn.novuscom.net) |
| 19:54.00 | AStorm | and known non-gays |
| 19:54.11 | AStorm | you can also have a more granular categories |
| 19:54.21 | RST38h | AStorm: You can only train the network if 1) you have got enough training data and 2) there is anything at all to base distinction upon |
| 19:54.28 | AStorm | known gays, suspected gays, suspected hetero, known hetero |
| 19:54.38 | Robin_Watts | cs2007q3 is the toolchain for fremantle5.0beta1. |
| 19:54.42 | AStorm | RST38h: ANYTHING will work as a classification factor ;p |
| 19:54.50 | AStorm | the more data, the better |
| 19:54.50 | RST38h | AStorm: As? |
| 19:54.51 | Robin_Watts | it looks vaguely like that isn't up to date enough either ;( |
| 19:55.05 | RST38h | Robin: Try if it supports Neon |
| 19:55.08 | AStorm | 1) friends, 2) colors, 3) page text, 4) frequency of updates 5)... |
| 19:55.34 | RST38h | Let me see....Anyone who updates his facebook page often is gay? =) |
| 19:55.39 | AStorm | have some levels of recursion |
| 19:55.45 | Robin_Watts | it's faulting my NEON assembly. but that might be my assembly at fault :) |
| 19:55.46 | AStorm | RST38h: don't know. It's possible. |
| 19:55.55 | RST38h | Only possible if there is a distinction. |
| 19:56.03 | RST38h | Otherwose, garbage in => garbage out |
| 19:56.11 | AStorm | yes, and neural network will find that distinction if it's there |
| 19:56.16 | AStorm | that's why you need fairly sizable training sample |
| 19:56.21 | RST38h | Yep |
| 19:56.30 | RST38h | But I guess they can get that |
| 19:56.52 | AStorm | sure. |
| 19:56.53 | RST38h | Does facebook profile have an explicit field about this gay/hetero business? |
| 19:56.59 | Robin_Watts | ooh, it's not faulting *all* the assembly. It's probably my fault :) |
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| 19:57.12 | AStorm | RST38h: no idea? I don't even have an account |
| 19:57.16 | RST38h | Robin: You do understand that it will not do AR SDT assembly? |
| 19:57.19 | RST38h | ARM |
| 19:57.25 | RST38h | AStorm: Neither do I |
| 19:57.36 | RST38h | AStorm: It feels too much like buying an iphone |
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| 19:57.53 | Robin_Watts | RST38h: I am familiar with gccs broken assembly syntax, yes. |
| 19:58.08 | RST38h | Robin: Of course, GCC people will not agree with you :) |
| 19:58.32 | AStorm | Robin_Watts: broken? |
| 19:58.37 | AStorm | it's fine AT&T syntax. |
| 19:58.51 | AStorm | :> |
| 19:59.27 | AStorm | not all that problematic |
| 19:59.41 | RST38h | Robin: http://sourceware.org/ml/binutils/2006-04/msg00001.html |
| 19:59.44 | AStorm | except argument order, which tends to cause brainfarts |
| 19:59.49 | RST38h | Robin: Looks like Neon has been added in 2006 |
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| 20:03.02 | Robin_Watts | Ah. -mfpu= neon might have fixed it :) |
| 20:03.34 | Robin_Watts | and it ran without crashing. Woo Hoo! Thanks all. |
| 20:03.48 | RST38h | You are welcome, deposit money into the CDROM slot. |
| 20:04.25 | b-man16 | lol |
| 20:05.08 | AStorm | we accept credit cards and beer donations |
| 20:05.13 | AStorm | no paypal or cheques |
| 20:05.28 | johnx | mornin' all |
| 20:05.29 | AStorm | ;> |
| 20:05.33 | AStorm | hello |
| 20:05.44 | RST38h | hello johnx |
| 20:05.49 | AStorm | considers ordering N900 from UK |
| 20:06.03 | AStorm | for estimated 40 quid savings |
| 20:06.15 | AStorm | but there's nobody that sends to Poland yet |
| 20:06.17 | RST38h | Better order from the US |
| 20:06.20 | AStorm | nah |
| 20:06.28 | AStorm | from US I'll have to pay the tax and duties |
| 20:06.35 | RST38h | But not from the UK? |
| 20:06.36 | AStorm | from UK I'll pay the lower UK tax |
| 20:06.37 | johnx | did they show a pic of the UK keyboard yet> |
| 20:06.40 | AStorm | and no duties (UE) |
| 20:06.47 | AStorm | :D |
| 20:06.53 | RST38h | AStorm: Why not ask someone traveling to US to bring it back? |
| 20:06.56 | AStorm | johnx: it's apparently the same as US |
| 20:07.05 | AStorm | RST38h: you volunteering? |
| 20:07.09 | johnx | really. that's an interesting choice |
| 20:07.22 | johnx | AStorm, will you be at the summit? |
| 20:07.27 | AStorm | johnx: why would it be different? |
| 20:07.34 | AStorm | johnx: which one and where and when? |
| 20:07.36 | AStorm | :) |
| 20:07.42 | RST38h | AStorm: I would, but not traveling to Poland any time soon |
| 20:07.46 | johnx | maemo summit 2009 amsterdam |
| 20:07.51 | AStorm | RST38h: doesn't really matter |
| 20:07.57 | AStorm | johnx: hmm, when? |
| 20:08.06 | johnx | oct 9 - 11 |
| 20:08.18 | johnx | and UK and US desktop keyboards are a little different |
| 20:08.32 | johnx | for not very good reasons, I'm sure |
| 20:08.54 | AStorm | hmmm |
| 20:09.05 | AStorm | huh |
| 20:09.14 | AStorm | I'd like to see the pics of various layouts |
| 20:09.19 | johnx | also: not all keyboard layouts will feature all 4 arrow keys |
| 20:09.23 | AStorm | maybe Nokia guys could do at least that for us? |
| 20:09.29 | AStorm | johnx: that I knwo |
| 20:09.31 | AStorm | *know |
| 20:09.37 | wazd | <lcuk mode on>my onscreen keyboard looks so great that you'll forget about hardware keyboard :D </lcuk mode off> :) |
| 20:09.46 | johnx | just making sure you don't end up with something you hate |
| 20:09.58 | lcuk | hates osk |
| 20:10.04 | lcuk | hated having to make one |
| 20:10.12 | lcuk | declares n800 users heathens |
| 20:10.15 | RST38h | wazd: Does it work as him? |
| 20:10.30 | wazd | RST38h: I mean skin that I've made :) |
| 20:10.37 | wazd | RST38h: it's ordinary kb :) |
| 20:10.51 | wazd | dunno where to test it though |
| 20:11.17 | AStorm | I wonder if N97 kb can work as a reference |
| 20:11.22 | AStorm | or are they different? |
| 20:11.25 | RST38h | different |
| 20:11.33 | AStorm | drat |
| 20:11.51 | *** join/#maemo hannesw__ (n=hannes@91-115-211-218.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 20:11.57 | johnx | quite different |
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| 20:25.15 | RST38h | "In the fMRI scan, it looked like the dead salmon was actually thinking about the pictures it had been shown." |
| 20:26.07 | derf | It is notoriously difficult to tell anything from an fMRI at all. |
| 20:26.46 | SpeedEvil | Context is the key. |
| 20:26.59 | SpeedEvil | Dead salmon are probably not thinking much. |
| 20:27.30 | SpeedEvil | fMRI is sort of like looking at the blinking lights on a computer, and deriving what's happening. |
| 20:29.43 | mavhc | more likely that salmon are immortal |
| 20:30.02 | SpeedEvil | That's one hypothesis. |
| 20:30.05 | RST38h | SpeedEvil: You will be surprised... |
| 20:30.27 | RST38h | http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/09/fmrisalmon/ |
| 20:33.21 | SpeedEvil | Why? It's a noise filtering game as much medical imaging is. |
| 20:33.44 | AStorm | hehehe |
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| 20:35.56 | AStorm | SpeedEvil: except those blinking lights are ultra-low magnetic fluctuations |
| 20:36.06 | AStorm | amplified using noisy amplifiers |
| 20:36.50 | jaska | zombie fish |
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| 20:42.20 | SpeedEvil | looked into making a MRI. For single pixel wood moisture scanning. |
| 20:42.29 | SpeedEvil | Complex - even for one pixel |
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| 20:45.24 | jorma | any change uae could work on the n900? |
| 20:45.37 | RST38h | probably. why? |
| 20:47.13 | jorma | 'cause playing amiga version of the ultima 4 on n900 would be uber cool |
| 20:48.08 | jorma | some forum posts suggested that uae was too much for the n810 hardware and last uae posts date back to 2008 or something |
| 20:48.11 | AStorm | jorma: it might |
| 20:48.26 | AStorm | esp. if someone moves gfx code to DSP |
| 20:48.29 | RST38h | ae will work on n810 |
| 20:48.31 | AStorm | and sound |
| 20:48.38 | RST38h | forget about dsp |
| 20:48.44 | jaska | u4 isnt exactly heavy |
| 20:48.54 | AStorm | yes, but sound and gfx emu is |
| 20:48.55 | RST38h | dsp is a very specialized chip, it won't do your gfx |
| 20:48.56 | AStorm | :) |
| 20:49.15 | AStorm | it *will* do the kind of computation UAE uses for gfx |
| 20:49.21 | AStorm | it's a SIMD chip. |
| 20:49.48 | RST38h | Ok, try implementing Amiga graphics driver on a DSP |
| 20:49.51 | AStorm | hey, I analyzed UAE code a few times in the past |
| 20:49.55 | AStorm | I know what it does. |
| 20:50.08 | RST38h | BTW, do you mean TI DSP inside OMAP3, Neon, or the SIMD ARM extensions? |
| 20:50.11 | AStorm | sure, not exactly easy, but possible |
| 20:50.19 | AStorm | TI DSP inside OMAP 2 |
| 20:50.24 | RST38h | ok |
| 20:50.28 | AStorm | don't have the OMAP3 one specs |
| 20:50.38 | RST38h | Then it is somewhat hopeless |
| 20:51.03 | lcuk | RST38h, dsp can do your graphics, its just not initially configured to do so |
| 20:51.04 | RST38h | In fact, even using Neon is gonna be hopeless because in the last moment you suddenly find that Neon does not do exactly what you need |
| 20:51.26 | AStorm | RST38h: I do know that TI OMAP2 DSP will do scaling easily |
| 20:51.27 | RST38h | lcuk: It can, except that you need to transfer data to the dsp, let it run, then transfer data out |
| 20:51.27 | lcuk | is neon an actual copro, or just a new set of chipops |
| 20:51.28 | AStorm | and blitting |
| 20:51.38 | RST38h | lcuk: And DSP instruction set does not make graphics easier |
| 20:51.44 | AStorm | that is, simulating Copper chip. |
| 20:51.46 | lcuk | RST38h, if that data is already in memory and has to end back up in memory |
| 20:51.47 | AStorm | sure it does |
| 20:51.51 | AStorm | we need fast memory moves |
| 20:51.52 | RST38h | AStorm: Ehehe |
| 20:51.54 | lcuk | what does it matter which core does the work |
| 20:51.56 | AStorm | DSP can do this. |
| 20:52.04 | lcuk | never said easier |
| 20:52.05 | luke-jr | AStorm: OMAP 2 DSP specs are open or not? |
| 20:52.05 | SpeedEvil | It can do results to framebuffer though |
| 20:52.08 | RST38h | AStorm: Let us now see what is involved in Amiga graphics emulation =) |
| 20:52.10 | lcuk | it can be used as a copro |
| 20:52.11 | AStorm | luke-jr: available, yes. |
| 20:52.20 | luke-jr | AStorm: open or NDA? |
| 20:52.23 | RST38h | AStorm: You have got up to 4 bitplanes, i.e. areas of memory. |
| 20:52.27 | ShadowJK | lcuk, it executes in parallell with the ARM core, cache and memory is coherent, the arm core issues instructions to it. |
| 20:52.29 | AStorm | luke-jr: I've read the instruction guide some time ago |
| 20:52.35 | AStorm | luke-jr: google should find it, so not NDA |
| 20:52.35 | ShadowJK | atleast that's my understanding |
| 20:52.40 | lcuk | SpeedEvil, we think in the omap2420 the dsp can write to the super fast framebuffer mem, i dont see why that owuld be different now |
| 20:52.47 | RST38h | AStorm: You read data from all 4, in 32bit increments if you wish, and combine every 4 corresponding bits into a single index |
| 20:52.56 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 20:53.13 | AStorm | RST38h: so? |
| 20:53.19 | AStorm | that's one SIMD op. |
| 20:53.20 | lcuk | ShadowJK, mmm? the dsp can be started, and the cpu can continue doing whatever it needs |
| 20:53.29 | RST38h | let us continue |
| 20:53.40 | AStorm | luke-jr: http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/psheets/man_dsp.htm |
| 20:53.40 | felipec | DSP can do fast memory moves? not any faster than ARM |
| 20:53.52 | RST38h | Astorm: That is 4 memory reads + one SIMD op that you probably do not have in the DSP |
| 20:53.55 | lcuk | no1 ever said it could do it faster |
| 20:53.55 | AStorm | felipec: true |
| 20:54.01 | felipec | they both use the same MMU |
| 20:54.06 | RST38h | AStorm: But let us continue |
| 20:54.07 | lcuk | but it can do it at same time as the cpu is doing other stuff |
| 20:54.18 | AStorm | felipec: also true, but the CPU can then do other emulation |
| 20:54.31 | RST38h | AStorm: Once you get the index, you are supposed to do one more memory read for palette lookup and finally you can pump your pixel to the screen |
| 20:54.49 | AStorm | RST38h: aleo easy, do a memory copy to the framebuffer |
| 20:55.02 | jorma | forget that i asked ;) |
| 20:55.03 | felipec | AStorm: you mean let the DSP do the memory move while ARM is doing something else? |
| 20:55.08 | RST38h | Yes, of course, except that you are doing it in the DSP, aren't you? |
| 20:55.19 | RST38h | AStorm: AND, finally |
| 20:55.43 | RST38h | AStorm: On every scanline, you are supposed to process copper list and make modifications to the palette and plane addresses |
| 20:56.25 | AStorm | luke-jr: blah, not there |
| 20:56.29 | AStorm | I found it though. |
| 20:56.45 | RST38h | AStorm: So, let us see, 5 memory reads (one has a chance to get cached but not really), weird bit rearrangement operation, and one memory write |
| 20:56.49 | AStorm | RST38h: that is true |
| 20:57.02 | AStorm | RST38h: 5 LOCAL memory reads. |
| 20:57.04 | RST38h | AStorm: You can see that your biggerst problem is not even math but the memory accesses |
| 20:57.11 | RST38h | AStorm: Not local at all |
| 20:57.20 | AStorm | yes, it's one fetch |
| 20:57.35 | RST38h | AStorm: Each bit plane is 640x480/8=38kB |
| 20:57.53 | RST38h | AStorm: So your bit planes will be at least 38kB apart. Not local. |
| 20:57.53 | AStorm | you don't have to process whole bitplane at once |
| 20:58.06 | RST38h | you have ot process it line by line |
| 20:58.15 | AStorm | correct |
| 20:58.22 | AStorm | since DSP can do DMA fetches |
| 20:58.29 | AStorm | CPU can in the meantime do other computation |
| 20:58.30 | RST38h | from 4 locations? |
| 20:58.38 | AStorm | yes, 4 DMA fetches. |
| 20:59.10 | RST38h | and what will the cpu do if it needs to read memory? |
| 20:59.23 | AStorm | it will have to wait until the next scanline. |
| 20:59.24 | felipec | and keep in mind that most DSP operations will require cache flushes |
| 20:59.26 | AStorm | probably |
| 20:59.39 | RST38h | but you are supposed to be emulating the rest of the system :) |
| 20:59.41 | AStorm | felipec: ? |
| 20:59.43 | AStorm | why |
| 20:59.58 | AStorm | RST38h: yes, but the rest of the system is what? :) |
| 21:00.01 | AStorm | port access? |
| 21:00.14 | AStorm | *and* other computation |
| 21:00.33 | AStorm | the idea is that it will allow to parallelize that other computation with screen updates |
| 21:00.42 | RST38h | 68000 |
| 21:00.44 | felipec | AStorm: otherwise ARM and DSP caches will not be coherent |
| 21:00.45 | RST38h | audio, timers |
| 21:00.53 | AStorm | felipec: they don't have to be. |
| 21:01.00 | RST38h | btw you are forgetting sprites |
| 21:01.11 | AStorm | sprites are clean moves in DSP space. |
| 21:01.24 | RST38h | clean moves? |
| 21:01.31 | RST38h | what about sprite priority? |
| 21:01.31 | AStorm | see, you abuse the DSP to be your Copper chip |
| 21:01.34 | felipec | AStorm: at some point you'll need to send some data to the DSP, that will require a cache flush |
| 21:01.39 | AStorm | sprite prio is precomputed |
| 21:01.53 | RST38h | AStorm: I can abuse a cat, but it does not mean it will bear my children |
| 21:01.56 | AStorm | felipec: true, some point |
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| 21:02.04 | *** join/#maemo HeckleJeckle (n=hangeles@ool-44c55d89.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:02.07 | AStorm | the idea is to make "some point" rare |
| 21:02.15 | *** part/#maemo HeckleJeckle (n=hangeles@ool-44c55d89.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:02.15 | AStorm | and it will be rare enough |
| 21:02.47 | RST38h | AStorm: I suggest you actually try implementing this :) |
| 21:02.48 | AStorm | actually, I don't need a cache flush, but a sync |
| 21:03.00 | AStorm | RST38h: I will. :> |
| 21:03.15 | AStorm | but IMO it'll be more fruitful to move sound emu there first |
| 21:03.38 | RST38h | That may well be true |
| 21:03.59 | RST38h | But Amiga has got pretty simple sound, 8 channels of wave audio or so |
| 21:04.24 | AStorm | luke-jr: some back door into the dsp: http://www.opencores.org/project,oc54x,overview |
| 21:04.30 | AStorm | RST38h: someone has to mix that |
| 21:04.42 | AStorm | and apply the necessary FIR filter |
| 21:04.53 | AStorm | (so that it sounds like amiga) |
| 21:07.09 | AStorm | luke-jr: http://dualist.stanford.edu/~ee265/labs/docs/mnemref.pdf |
| 21:07.10 | AStorm | :> |
| 21:07.11 | *** join/#maemo alecrim (n=alecrim@201008190065.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 21:07.16 | AStorm | I knew I've seen it somewhere |
| 21:07.43 | AStorm | and http://focus.ti.com/lit/ug/spru375g/spru375g.pdf |
| 21:08.33 | *** join/#maemo bobbyd (n=chatzill@89.241.240.238) |
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| 21:12.01 | epilido | is there a way to search multiple terms with the and operator on t.m.o. when I tried say usb host mode. I get all instances of usb or host or mode. I would like to be able to search for multiple words and get specific results.... |
| 21:12.02 | *** join/#maemo aSIMULAtor (n=artemisi@80.222.247.17) |
| 21:12.22 | AStorm | spru374g is also on TI servers. |
| 21:12.42 | bobbyd | hi |
| 21:13.15 | *** join/#maemo jofjdi_ (n=jsherman@user-10lfcke.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 21:14.21 | bobbyd | I've got the maemo 5 sdk, and I'd like to write a little app for the n900 that counts how much data I've transferred in a set time period, then disables the cellular modem when it hits a limit. It's to ensure I don't get charged too much based on the data plan I've got. |
| 21:14.51 | bobbyd | I thought it would also be nice to make a desktop widget that looked like a fuel gauge to show how much data I had left |
| 21:15.08 | bobbyd | does anyone have any pointers on getting started? |
| 21:15.22 | *** join/#maemo GuySoft (n=guysoft@93-173-15-97.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 21:15.26 | bobbyd | I can write C++ and python |
| 21:15.49 | bobbyd | (and lots of other things, but I suppose they're the most relevant) |
| 21:15.56 | johnx | bobbyd, so you want pointers on how to count data transferred? or where to find the docs on making a widget? |
| 21:16.06 | bobbyd | yep, both :) |
| 21:16.22 | bobbyd | and if it's possible to disable one type of network connection |
| 21:16.34 | johnx | that last part I don't know |
| 21:16.48 | bobbyd | I'll also finally be able to write an app that turns my ringer off during set time periods :) |
| 21:16.51 | johnx | you cound munge the users settings with gconftool maybe |
| 21:16.52 | AStorm | maybe over dbus? |
| 21:16.56 | bobbyd | I've wanted to do that on my phone for years |
| 21:17.02 | bobbyd | ok |
| 21:17.19 | AStorm | Nokia seems very fond of dbus, you could check if there are some dbus control apis there in SDK |
| 21:17.25 | bobbyd | I'll have a poke about. What about the data transfer and widgets, should I just RTFM? :) |
| 21:17.29 | bobbyd | ok |
| 21:17.33 | johnx | for data flow...dunno if there's a maemo-specific way, but if it were me (from my shell-centric point of view) I'd run /sbin/ifconfig and parse the output |
| 21:17.41 | bobbyd | and is qt the preferred way to write stuff now? |
| 21:17.47 | bobbyd | ok |
| 21:17.55 | AStorm | bobbyd: nobody knows yet |
| 21:17.57 | johnx | gtk is "preferred" but qt is probably more future proof |
| 21:18.00 | AStorm | Maemo 5 is gtk |
| 21:18.13 | AStorm | but next one will likely be mostly qt |
| 21:18.18 | johnx | and there's some pretty good docs on making widgets, that can be found from the sdk page |
| 21:18.18 | bobbyd | ok, I thought someone said it's possible to write qt stuff on maemo 5 |
| 21:18.22 | bobbyd | ok |
| 21:18.24 | AStorm | what was the codename? Harmattan? |
| 21:18.26 | bobbyd | I'll check those out |
| 21:18.26 | johnx | and some HIG-type docs about widgets as well |
| 21:18.32 | bobbyd | cool |
| 21:19.18 | johnx | HIG: http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/019c2b31-3777-49a0-9257-970d79580756/Hildon_2_2_Widget_UI_Specification.html |
| 21:19.25 | bobbyd | thanks |
| 21:19.56 | johnx | maemo 5 sdk beta 2 (newest as of now, but there's a new release coming "real soon now"): http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_sdk/ |
| 21:20.39 | bobbyd | yep, installing that now |
| 21:20.41 | johnx | widget docs here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Application_Development/Writing_Desktop_Widgets |
| 21:21.41 | bobbyd | I'm also going to port some opengl stuff I did, and hopefully write a nice flashy remote for squeezecenter |
| 21:21.51 | bobbyd | should be the perfect device for that |
| 21:21.56 | bobbyd | (the n900) |
| 21:21.57 | AStorm | bobbyd: make sure it works with OpenGL 2 ES |
| 21:22.39 | bobbyd | I'm pretty sure it will, I think most of the stuff they chopped out in ES was useless crap like quad-buffer rendering |
| 21:23.10 | javispedro | AStorm: actually, I think the final device comes with both APIs (1 & 2) |
| 21:23.11 | bobbyd | but I should read the spec :) |
| 21:23.14 | javispedro | (actually 1.1) |
| 21:23.18 | AStorm | javispedro: :) |
| 21:23.21 | AStorm | oh. |
| 21:23.57 | javispedro | 1.1 & 2, I mean. |
| 21:24.07 | bobbyd | I'd like to get data out of the game I'm working on and write some widgets for that |
| 21:24.31 | bobbyd | but one thing at at time eh? I think the bandwidth monitor would be a simple thing to start with |
| 21:24.32 | AStorm | instead rewrites the sox resampler plugin for alsa... again |
| 21:24.46 | AStorm | should port it to DSP just for fun |
| 21:24.57 | javispedro | now has system wide bad quality equalizer :) |
| 21:25.00 | AStorm | it's a mip-mapped fir filter after all |
| 21:25.00 | bobbyd | maybe I'll write a pointless visualisation of the data |
| 21:25.17 | bobbyd | I really want to see if zynadsubfx works well on the n900 |
| 21:25.22 | AStorm | the task DSP is extremely well suited for |
| 21:25.23 | felipec | somebody should port some video decoder from FFmpeg :) |
| 21:25.27 | bobbyd | and then see if my Korg nanokey will work with the USB port |
| 21:25.28 | felipec | to the DSP |
| 21:25.29 | AStorm | felipec: hmm. |
| 21:25.41 | bobbyd | what are the specs of the DSP? |
| 21:25.43 | AStorm | what about some scaler? |
| 21:25.53 | AStorm | or should we rely on GPU to do that well now? |
| 21:25.58 | bobbyd | does the flash port use it? |
| 21:26.08 | bobbyd | GPU must be faster for scaling... |
| 21:26.16 | bobbyd | unless it draws too much power |
| 21:26.17 | javispedro | bobbyd: i don't know for sure. |
| 21:26.22 | bobbyd | hmm |
| 21:26.32 | AStorm | bobbyd: DSP is the same as in OMAP2 apparently |
| 21:26.33 | javispedro | of course, it's faster for "good quality" scaling. |
| 21:26.42 | bobbyd | I did some hacking on the PSP to run stuff on the media processor |
| 21:26.51 | AStorm | oh, no, it's not |
| 21:26.53 | AStorm | it's C64+ |
| 21:27.00 | AStorm | TMS320C64x |
| 21:27.03 | bobbyd | AStorm: *another* 600Mhz chip? |
| 21:27.08 | bobbyd | ahh :) |
| 21:27.09 | AStorm | omap2 has TMS320C55x |
| 21:27.09 | lcuk | yeah lardman was delirious with joy lol |
| 21:27.19 | lcuk | it has nicer byte format than the one in omap2420 |
| 21:27.21 | SaBer | bobbyd: I've heard zynaddsubfx is not very well coded (regarding it is supposed to be a real-time synth) |
| 21:27.25 | AStorm | lcuk: true :) |
| 21:27.38 | AStorm | but one important thing is that it's backwards compatible |
| 21:27.40 | AStorm | :) |
| 21:27.54 | bobbyd | SaBer: I'll have a look at porting it anyway, then probably just profile it and see what it's like |
| 21:28.05 | AStorm | from wiki: |
| 21:28.08 | AStorm | OMAP3430 - 600 MHz ARM Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX 530 GPU + 430MHz C64x+ DSP + ISP (Image Signal Processor) |
| 21:28.16 | bobbyd | AStorm: so it's the C64+ ? |
| 21:28.21 | bobbyd | wow |
| 21:28.22 | AStorm | OMAP2420 - 330 MHz ARM1136 + 220 MHz C55x DSP + PowerVR MBX GPU |
| 21:28.44 | bobbyd | maybe I can use the DSP for the synth :) |
| 21:28.49 | javispedro | plus the IVA. |
| 21:28.54 | bobbyd | IVA? |
| 21:29.02 | SaBer | bobbyd: there's a bunch of LV2 plugins that are supposed to be better: http://home.gna.org/zyn/ |
| 21:29.06 | javispedro | image & video accelerator iirc. |
| 21:29.17 | AStorm | javispedro: it's called ISP |
| 21:29.21 | AStorm | ;> |
| 21:29.36 | javispedro | (they all sound like cpus to me) |
| 21:29.42 | AStorm | the problem is that I don't have the DSP bridge docs for OMAP3430 |
| 21:29.47 | AStorm | javispedro: they are |
| 21:29.52 | AStorm | but specialized ones |
| 21:29.59 | bobbyd | SaBer: hadn't seen that, thanks |
| 21:29.59 | johnx | and the SGX has some interesting twists |
| 21:30.04 | felipec | there's an IVA and a ISP... they are separate |
| 21:30.11 | johnx | tile based renderers are so cool :D |
| 21:30.25 | AStorm | felipec: hmm? funny. is IVA running PowerVR firmware or something? |
| 21:30.42 | felipec | AStorm: no, that's a separate chip :) |
| 21:31.00 | bobbyd | SaBer: I've done some ARM programming in the past, so hopefully it'll be possible to get it running well |
| 21:31.05 | lcuk | /core you mean - they are all on same silicon |
| 21:31.12 | lcuk | (so i understand |
| 21:31.31 | bobbyd | I'd love it if the nanokey would work, apparently it only draws 100mA, so it might |
| 21:31.33 | felipec | lcuk: right |
| 21:31.35 | AStorm | bobbyd: the DSP is not truly an ARM |
| 21:31.48 | bobbyd | right, but the CPU is right? |
| 21:31.55 | AStorm | yes, it is. |
| 21:32.04 | bobbyd | seems like a great device regardless |
| 21:32.13 | AStorm | with VFP and other extras |
| 21:32.20 | bobbyd | I'm ordering tonight. Does anyone know the official date they start shipping? |
| 21:32.23 | johnx | the OMAP3 is a tiny beast :) |
| 21:33.13 | Pavlov | ill take a snapdragon over omap3 any day |
| 21:33.42 | johnx | Pavlov, any linux devices with a snapdragon in a decent formfactor yet? (ie, not a devboard) |
| 21:33.54 | johnx | failing that, any snapdragon-based devices with a linux port? |
| 21:34.08 | Pavlov | not that i know of ;/ |
| 21:34.36 | Pavlov | only production thing i've got is the toshiba tg01 |
| 21:34.41 | AStorm | Pavlov: yes, it's neat |
| 21:34.48 | Pavlov | and it is super fast |
| 21:35.00 | AStorm | except it eats more power |
| 21:35.10 | johnx | and my days of playing with things that have crappy linux support are in the past |
| 21:35.31 | AStorm | it won't scale down to N900-sized device |
| 21:35.41 | AStorm | unless they produce a clocked-down version |
| 21:36.02 | *** join/#maemo MrGoose1 (n=cache@5ac5153d.bb.sky.com) |
| 21:36.30 | AStorm | that's why there are no cell phones with this cpu yet |
| 21:36.30 | johnx | the i.mx515 also looks pretty interesting |
| 21:36.35 | johnx | wonder if it has 3D accell |
| 21:36.45 | Pavlov | AStorm: the tg01 is a cell phone (sort of) |
| 21:37.09 | *** join/#maemo renato (n=renato@187.78.189.36) |
| 21:37.18 | Pavlov | only marginally bigger than my iphone |
| 21:37.24 | lcuk | looks at n810, looks at n899.5 and looks at n900 and thinks WOW what an evolution |
| 21:37.43 | Pavlov | n900 is nice, don't get me wrong ;) |
| 21:37.47 | luke-jr | wtf is N899.5? |
| 21:37.54 | AStorm | "sort-of" |
| 21:37.58 | AStorm | check the run time on that |
| 21:37.59 | AStorm | :> |
| 21:38.00 | lcuk | "nearly" |
| 21:38.12 | luke-jr | johnx: http://projects.powerdeveloper.org/project/imx515/774 |
| 21:38.16 | lcuk | but i cant update the software on it cos i need sdk libs from the beta repository |
| 21:38.18 | luke-jr | johnx: if there is 3D support, I hope to get specs ;p |
| 21:38.51 | johnx | luke-jr, well, get back to me when you do ;) it might convince me I want a netwalker more than a netbook |
| 21:38.55 | lcuk | you will never get specs |
| 21:39.03 | luke-jr | johnx: reviews of PC-Z1 seem to suck |
| 21:39.05 | luke-jr | especially kb |
| 21:39.12 | Pavlov | the problem with both the mx51 and omap3 chips is their memory architecture is too slow |
| 21:39.17 | luke-jr | johnx: I'm planning to hack my dev board into a pseudo-wearable XD |
| 21:39.22 | Pavlov | if they could double it they'd be nice chips ;) |
| 21:39.26 | luke-jr | Pavlov: wtf? |
| 21:39.28 | lcuk | Pavlov, ? |
| 21:39.28 | AStorm | Pavlov: true. and you say that Snapdragon's is better? |
| 21:39.35 | Pavlov | AStorm: yeah, much |
| 21:39.35 | johnx | luke-jr, yeah, think I'll take a crappy keyboard over a DIY in a wooden box |
| 21:39.38 | luke-jr | Pavlov: memory is too slow? |
| 21:39.45 | AStorm | luke-jr: not memory, bus. |
| 21:39.49 | AStorm | :P |
| 21:39.51 | lcuk | looks for places where its slow |
| 21:39.52 | luke-jr | johnx: C760 thin-client? :p |
| 21:40.04 | johnx | luke-jr, not so much :P |
| 21:40.07 | lcuk | care to qualify that statement properly Pavlov |
| 21:40.11 | luke-jr | johnx: hm? |
| 21:40.28 | Pavlov | lcuk: yeah, its bus is pokey |
| 21:40.29 | johnx | luke-jr, as in: no interest |
| 21:40.33 | javispedro | and the tiny dcache doesn't help much |
| 21:40.41 | luke-jr | johnx: my plan is SL-C760 X server, with the rest hosting the real system |
| 21:41.00 | johnx | luke-jr, over what? wifi? |
| 21:41.06 | Pavlov | even the tegra arm11 chips have faster memory buses |
| 21:41.13 | lcuk | define pokey - it runs a 3d composited x11 desktop with multitple apps running at fullspeed - which part is slow |
| 21:41.37 | lcuk | iphone manages 1 app + a menu |
| 21:41.53 | luke-jr | johnx: USB? <.< |
| 21:41.56 | Pavlov | im not sure what you're comparing |
| 21:42.04 | lcuk | well you say its slow |
| 21:42.09 | javispedro | lcuk: iphone is slower :) |
| 21:42.14 | lcuk | theres clear evidence its now |
| 21:42.16 | johnx | luke-jr, wow...great. all for the keyboard? |
| 21:42.21 | Pavlov | the iphone excluding the 3GS is also pretty slow |
| 21:42.21 | lcuk | not |
| 21:42.24 | luke-jr | johnx: XD |
| 21:42.40 | luke-jr | johnx: well, hopefully Sharp won't be the only ones to use i.MX515? |
| 21:42.45 | lcuk | i thought they had same chips now |
| 21:42.50 | Pavlov | no |
| 21:42.50 | lcuk | /similar |
| 21:42.51 | javispedro | the problem is that every day I tell myself "now this gadget, at 350Mhz/400Mhz/600Mhz, will finally be faster than my 333Mhz Celeron. |
| 21:42.54 | *** join/#maemo bobbyd (n=chatzill@89.241.240.238) |
| 21:42.56 | javispedro | ". it never is. |
| 21:43.08 | lcuk | lol javispedro i always considered the 810 to be amiga rated (H) |
| 21:43.20 | johnx | luke-jr, not really directed at you, but if there's one thing I learned from the whole zaurus vs n8x0 situation it's: "It's the software, stupid!" |
| 21:43.20 | Pavlov | lcuk: stuff is getting faster |
| 21:43.21 | lcuk | and coded as if it was! |
| 21:43.23 | luke-jr | javispedro: what? |
| 21:43.23 | AStorm | lol |
| 21:43.23 | lbt | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXh_3_sT8Z4 |
| 21:43.24 | lcuk | it worked tho :D |
| 21:43.29 | Pavlov | and you can get away with doing a bunch now |
| 21:43.29 | AStorm | no, it's far more powerful than Amiga |
| 21:43.38 | javispedro | luke-jr: random ranting :) |
| 21:43.40 | luke-jr | johnx: no way, it's definitely the hardware. |
| 21:43.41 | Pavlov | but there are several chips out that are substantially faster |
| 21:43.45 | AStorm | it's probably comparable to some Pentiums |
| 21:43.50 | *** join/#maemo ouilsen (n=ouilsen@dslb-088-077-159-144.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:43.51 | luke-jr | johnx: the software is just KDE 4.3 :D |
| 21:43.53 | AStorm | including bus speeds |
| 21:43.56 | lcuk | hahahahaha lbt |
| 21:43.57 | Pavlov | i hope TI speeds up their memory bus |
| 21:44.04 | AStorm | yeah, they should |
| 21:44.08 | AStorm | that's the main bottleneck |
| 21:44.12 | Pavlov | yep |
| 21:44.20 | Pavlov | the chip otherwise is fine |
| 21:44.25 | johnx | luke-jr, we obviously have very different use cases |
| 21:44.25 | bobbyd | I think the n900 will be pretty good for a year or so though |
| 21:44.36 | ShadowJK | Although for users, the main bottleneck is RAM /size/, when they open up the 20th tab in the browser :) |
| 21:44.44 | AStorm | bobbyd: probably longer |
| 21:44.46 | johnx | ShadowJK++ |
| 21:44.58 | AStorm | ShadowJK: not if that user is doing video playback |
| 21:44.58 | lcuk | bobbyd, code round any roadblocks - that is the linux way |
| 21:44.59 | AStorm | :P |
| 21:45.04 | luke-jr | ShadowJK: PC-Z1 has 512 MB RAM |
| 21:45.11 | lcuk | the 810 had a slow screen |
| 21:45.13 | lcuk | i smashed it |
| 21:45.18 | AStorm | huh? |
| 21:45.23 | AStorm | why would you do that? |
| 21:45.28 | javispedro | ShadowJK: my laptop has 196MiB. It runs Eclipse. |
| 21:45.35 | AStorm | personally, I'd just replace the damned EPSON chip with something faster |
| 21:45.36 | johnx | AStorm, smashed the barrier |
| 21:45.36 | ShadowJK | I think he means he smashed the roadblock |
| 21:45.45 | AStorm | johnx: ahhhaha |
| 21:45.47 | lcuk | others will find ways to get round whatever bottlenecks on this platform |
| 21:45.55 | javispedro | (fast hdd swap partition compared to the slower sd swap helps here) |
| 21:46.01 | johnx | and the omap3 has already been *shown* playing 720P |
| 21:46.10 | AStorm | johnx: true |
| 21:46.12 | Pavlov | barely |
| 21:46.20 | AStorm | not barely, cleanly. |
| 21:46.29 | javispedro | with DSP help I think. |
| 21:46.31 | johnx | Pavlov, yeah, it wasn't even touching the DSP, IIRC |
| 21:46.32 | AStorm | yes. |
| 21:46.36 | AStorm | w/o DSP |
| 21:46.37 | ShadowJK | I'd say barely in real life :) |
| 21:46.37 | javispedro | johnx: a. |
| 21:46.44 | Pavlov | johnx: yep |
| 21:46.50 | AStorm | ShadowJK: oh yes, a dev preview more like |
| 21:46.58 | Pavlov | now try playing that video non-fullscreen inside an interactive app ;) |
| 21:47.13 | AStorm | javispedro: DSP help was unnecessary waste of power ;> |
| 21:47.18 | johnx | Pavlov, find me a gadget with a 720P+ screen :P |
| 21:47.20 | AStorm | it will be necessary only for h264 |
| 21:47.31 | AStorm | johnx: try that TV output |
| 21:47.32 | Pavlov | johnx: does my 9" netbook count? ;) |
| 21:47.36 | ShadowJK | It might be able to do 720p, but I wouldn't trust it to do 720p through layers of UI and compositing shite, and I wouldn't expect it to do 720p while running some monstrous interpreter for actionscript/javascript/whathaveyou |
| 21:47.39 | luke-jr | yeah, without a 720p screen, you're not REALLY playing 720p :p |
| 21:47.44 | johnx | AStorm, what, the 480P output? :P |
| 21:47.46 | javispedro | but decoding it. |
| 21:47.47 | lcuk | Pavlov, if an interactive app NEEDS that video at fullres its doing it wrong |
| 21:47.56 | AStorm | johnx: hmm, it's that low res? |
| 21:47.57 | lcuk | it was years before i could get fullscreen video on pc |
| 21:47.59 | AStorm | I meant that composite |
| 21:48.12 | lcuk | i remember quarter screen stuff |
| 21:48.15 | AStorm | that should be able to push 720p... maybe |
| 21:48.28 | johnx | AStorm, huh? composite, not component |
| 21:48.40 | ShadowJK | I mean the desktop compositing |
| 21:48.51 | lcuk | compositing adds lots of extra overheads |
| 21:48.55 | luke-jr | I don't use compositing on my desktop machine. |
| 21:48.59 | luke-jr | it's useless cruft so far |
| 21:49.02 | ShadowJK | It adds lots of bandwidth requirements too |
| 21:49.02 | AStorm | lcuk: mostly in memory use |
| 21:49.12 | lcuk | AStorm, no, in more than memory |
| 21:49.21 | felipec | ShadowJK: the video is rendered through an overlay... the UI has nothing to do with that |
| 21:49.27 | AStorm | yes, each visible update goes to some back buffer |
| 21:49.38 | Pavlov | yeah |
| 21:49.52 | felipec | the DSP is quite capable of 720p... you just need the right codecs |
| 21:49.52 | AStorm | invisible as well |
| 21:49.52 | lcuk | then is transfered to the pvr and then transformed and sent out |
| 21:49.55 | AStorm | felipec: heck, you don't even need the right codecs |
| 21:49.55 | bobbyd | think I'll buy two n900's :) |
| 21:49.59 | ShadowJK | felipec, even with the compositing effects? On regular desktop overlay isn't used with compositing :/ |
| 21:50.00 | bobbyd | one for my wife too |
| 21:50.05 | Pavlov | bobbyd: you should |
| 21:50.24 | AStorm | ShadowJK: no idea if the bus is fast enough to allow textured video |
| 21:50.33 | bobbyd | I wonder if skype video, or ekiga would work well enough to use regularly |
| 21:50.35 | luke-jr | hmm |
| 21:50.38 | AStorm | if it is... then compositing it might work |
| 21:50.41 | lcuk | ShadowJK, depends on which system you are using for compositing, most will allow video in the cube - but it depends on which render pathway used |
| 21:50.44 | bobbyd | I suppose ekiga has more chance of being ported well |
| 21:50.48 | felipec | ShadowJK: we are not doing anything fancy with the video like compiz |
| 21:50.54 | AStorm | bobbyd: yes, it has |
| 21:50.56 | luke-jr | how hard would it be to get my N810 to hijack whatever random MAC is already authenticated to an open wifi network? :p |
| 21:51.00 | ShadowJK | felipec, oh ok |
| 21:51.00 | bobbyd | but people are lazy, as the 1000 bad emulators on the PSP show :) |
| 21:51.01 | AStorm | bobbyd: or pidgin's v&v |
| 21:51.04 | luke-jr | just for a simple UDP xmit |
| 21:51.15 | AStorm | luke-jr: easy |
| 21:51.15 | bobbyd | AStorm: oh yeah :) |
| 21:51.24 | luke-jr | eg, if I want to xmit my lat/lon every 5 seconds over DNS :p |
| 21:51.30 | luke-jr | AStorm: really? |
| 21:51.33 | AStorm | bobbyd: but the contacts app does that already (telepathy) |
| 21:51.51 | AStorm | luke-jr: yes, try arping |
| 21:52.04 | luke-jr | AStorm: I'm thinking just pcap-inspect what it sees, and hijack the first client |
| 21:52.04 | luke-jr | ... |
| 21:52.04 | bobbyd | AStorm: it does pidgin v&v? |
| 21:52.06 | AStorm | I did that to hijack MACs over wifi |
| 21:52.28 | AStorm | bobbyd: no, but pidgin also uses telepathy for v&v |
| 21:52.28 | luke-jr | arping is for hajacking IPs to your MAC |
| 21:52.28 | bobbyd | ahh |
| 21:52.32 | AStorm | luke-jr: or the other way around |
| 21:52.33 | luke-jr | AStorm: I mean spoof the MAC of some already-connected client |
| 21:52.35 | AStorm | you ping the other IPs |
| 21:52.39 | bobbyd | so it's got some kind of video chat that's not skype |
| 21:52.40 | AStorm | and get the reply with macs |
| 21:52.41 | luke-jr | to skip the whole auth+DHCP |
| 21:52.41 | bobbyd | that's really great |
| 21:52.47 | bobbyd | this is just getting better for me :D |
| 21:52.50 | AStorm | luke-jr: I did that myself. |
| 21:53.04 | AStorm | to "borrow" a few external IPs in our uni net |
| 21:53.23 | luke-jr | AStorm: I mean automated. |
| 21:53.23 | AStorm | arpinged the ip range and received MACs |
| 21:53.23 | luke-jr | so if I'm in range for 500ms, it can xmit an update |
| 21:53.23 | AStorm | waited for one to go down |
| 21:53.26 | RST38h | RST38h 3 : VAX 0 |
| 21:53.37 | javispedro | go RST! |
| 21:53.41 | AStorm | luke-jr: it's scriptable |
| 21:53.51 | luke-jr | AStorm: what is? :p |
| 21:53.52 | AStorm | still, if you could get kismet running... |
| 21:53.52 | bobbyd | am I right in thinking the n900 can act as a USB host for devices that draw 100mA or less? |
| 21:53.53 | johnx | RST38h, VGBA for the VAX? |
| 21:53.55 | AStorm | luke-jr: arping |
| 21:54.01 | luke-jr | AStorm: kismet tends to require monitor mode |
| 21:54.02 | RST38h | ok, until I fall asleep, I owe javis some code |
| 21:54.05 | johnx | bobbyd, no, that's incorrect |
| 21:54.06 | ShadowJK | bobbyd, current info says no |
| 21:54.06 | luke-jr | which prevents xmit altogether I think |
| 21:54.07 | AStorm | luke-jr: not for basics. |
| 21:54.09 | RST38h | johnx: Kinda more advanced really |
| 21:54.11 | luke-jr | oh |
| 21:54.13 | AStorm | luke-jr: which is receiving packets |
| 21:54.25 | johnx | seems like no usb host on the n900 |
| 21:54.33 | javispedro | RST38h: i'm going to fall sleep soon, so if you want to sent me something, better use email |
| 21:54.47 | AStorm | johnx: huh? check kernel driver for the USB controller. |
| 21:54.51 | AStorm | it's still there. |
| 21:54.53 | RST38h | ok |
| 21:55.02 | johnx | AStorm, check maemo-developers |
| 21:55.05 | AStorm | it's dual-mode |
| 21:55.09 | bobbyd | johnx: I thought it supported this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_On-The-Go |
| 21:55.18 | timeless | out of the box usbotg is proably not exposed |
| 21:55.25 | bobbyd | hmm |
| 21:55.26 | ShadowJK | AStorm: |
| 21:55.29 | ShadowJK | <lbt> http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020828.html |
| 21:55.32 | ShadowJK | <lbt> http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020830.html |
| 21:55.47 | lbt | ShadowJK: you missed the next line I posted |
| 21:55.56 | timeless | not certain |
| 21:56.00 | johnx | timeless, thoughts about whether one could work around the problems in software? |
| 21:56.18 | timeless | i'd assume so |
| 21:56.21 | AStorm | bla bla bla |
| 21:56.21 | johnx | ah |
| 21:56.25 | bobbyd | hmm |
| 21:56.25 | AStorm | not hardware limitation |
| 21:56.26 | johnx | I retract my statement |
| 21:56.30 | AStorm | just laziness in testing |
| 21:56.48 | timeless | remember, i'm not an expert in the area |
| 21:56.48 | AStorm | they hit some problems likely and just didn't have the time to correct them |
| 21:57.10 | javispedro | yeah. good luck finding the proper non-standard cable |
| 21:57.15 | javispedro | sighs |
| 21:57.23 | SpeedEvil | It's available on specialist websites |
| 21:57.25 | AStorm | javispedro: non-standard? USB OTG is standard. |
| 21:57.26 | timeless | iirc the strings are present but the path is disabled |
| 21:57.36 | AStorm | timeless: hmm :) |
| 21:57.39 | javispedro | AStorm: but basically -devels tells us it's not going to be "standard" OTG. |
| 21:57.44 | ShadowJK | lbt: "fuck"? |
| 21:57.51 | johnx | javispedro, micro b to host a + female host a to female host a |
| 21:57.53 | AStorm | javispedro: no. the port is OTG |
| 21:58.16 | javispedro | AStorm: how do you know? you seem to contradict qgil. |
| 21:58.16 | AStorm | just the chip is set in client mode |
| 21:58.17 | lbt | ShadowJK: well, I have spent all day on a PUSH project assuming a 2009 consumer 'computer' can do usb host mode |
| 21:58.37 | AStorm | javispedro: qgil said there's no OTG *now* |
| 21:58.49 | AStorm | because they hit issues w/ USB chip |
| 21:58.52 | lcuk | you have spent the day hacking on a control module you had to hand |
| 21:58.55 | SpeedEvil | No OTG now may mean that the required hardware isn't there. |
| 21:58.57 | johnx | lbt, well you know what they say about people who assume things ... |
| 21:59.03 | SpeedEvil | It needs a couple more resistors or something. |
| 21:59.09 | AStorm | not really even |
| 21:59.13 | javispedro | AStorm: yes it may. |
| 21:59.15 | AStorm | I bet they connected everything ok |
| 21:59.15 | RST38h | javis: Is ARM SDT syntax ok? |
| 21:59.16 | SpeedEvil | In the absence of a positive statement that USB host mode works. |
| 21:59.20 | AStorm | it'd be crazy to break the design |
| 21:59.28 | javispedro | was doing things in Palm T|X |
| 21:59.28 | SpeedEvil | It's not breaking the design. |
| 21:59.30 | ShadowJK | But does it mean OTG wont work, that is, OTG adapters wont work... does it also mean that it wont work with F-F adapter? |
| 21:59.32 | AStorm | because they hit a problem while developing USB chip driver |
| 21:59.33 | johnx | SpeedEvil, if they were planning on having it working, right up until the end, it's probably cheaper to keep the same board design |
| 21:59.54 | javispedro | RST38h: can gnu as compile it? |
| 22:00.01 | javispedro | s/compile/assembly |
| 22:00.02 | RST38h | javis: Ok, no ARM SDT syntax |
| 22:00.08 | SpeedEvil | johnx: indeed - it depends when the decision came - and if the required fix involved not populating components forex. |
| 22:00.12 | timeless | board designs don't change often- especially not late |
| 22:00.22 | AStorm | ShadowJK: yes, it means OTG won't work until you fix the kernel |
| 22:00.27 | timeless | *faiu |
| 22:00.35 | timeless | afaiu |
| 22:00.38 | ShadowJK | AStorm, I don't give a shit about OTG |
| 22:00.41 | AStorm | at least that's what I can see. |
| 22:00.43 | javispedro | AStorm: why do you believe it's a kernel bug? it may be as well a udc bug. |
| 22:00.46 | SpeedEvil | timeless: Sure - not populating pullup resistors and ... is free though. |
| 22:00.47 | johnx | SpeedEvil, I gather the required fix was like the N800: "You can't use an 'A' socket or call it USB-OTG" |
| 22:00.55 | javispedro | wouldn't be surprised |
| 22:01.03 | lbt | community kernel hack to enable host mode and not be 'usb certified' |
| 22:01.05 | lbt | ? |
| 22:01.13 | SpeedEvil | If the hardware is there - sure. |
| 22:01.22 | AStorm | lbt: something like that, yes |
| 22:01.28 | johnx | lbt, give it 80% odds, and hope they can get kexec working :) |
| 22:01.32 | AStorm | since the kernel driver has the support apparently |
| 22:01.34 | lcuk | timeless, wouldnt a board change require a new rx number |
| 22:01.45 | lbt | kexec is enabled - I saw that |
| 22:01.46 | AStorm | not sure if that support works, I don't own an N900 |
| 22:01.50 | timeless | johnx: afaik the n800 was never going to have a micro port |
| 22:01.58 | RST38h | javis: Email address? |
| 22:02.01 | timeless | lcuk: dunno |
| 22:02.09 | johnx | timeless, fair enough, but what I'm saying is that the USB host stuff is populated anyways |
| 22:02.12 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: you may not require any board changes in some cases, simply not put some components on. |
| 22:02.20 | lcuk | nods |
| 22:02.31 | RST38h | Email address, javispedro, quick, for I am already sleep typing |
| 22:02.31 | AStorm | what I suspect is that the kernel driver had some bug and they lacked time to iron it out |
| 22:02.32 | ShadowJK | Maybe the fix for USB host mode required a board change, and it wasn't done |
| 22:02.38 | AStorm | so instead set it to client mode |
| 22:02.46 | timeless | is listening to live guitar music |
| 22:03.01 | AStorm | that maemo-developers post sure sounds like that |
| 22:03.32 | SpeedEvil | To quote from the second - [one of the requirements of the USB peeps] One of them being that the certification with A connector can be passed only if full functionality is provided by the SW. |
| 22:03.32 | timeless | if the right people wrote there, i'd trust them |
| 22:03.41 | bobbyd | so it's opengl es 1.1? |
| 22:03.41 | johnx | AStorm, that's the way it reads to me too |
| 22:03.41 | timeless | i just don't read that list |
| 22:04.14 | javispedro | bobbyd: I don't have a device, but: there is ogles v2 support _for sure_, and then I believe there's ogles v1.1 support _too_. |
| 22:04.17 | johnx | bobbyd, I know there is ES 2 drivers, I don't know if there are ES 1.1 drivers |
| 22:04.30 | SpeedEvil | So it couldn't be done in the timescale - as the software wasn't there. This would have meant a connector change at that time AIUI. |
| 22:04.36 | RST38h | javis: Sent. |
| 22:05.03 | javispedro | RST38h: ack |
| 22:05.12 | GeneralAntilles | timeless, Igor. |
| 22:05.20 | SpeedEvil | Which implies to me there has been one board rev since the decision. But I could be completely wrong. |
| 22:05.53 | bobbyd | OGL ES 2 is all about having a programmable pipeline, so it'll be interesting to get a "glxinfo" from the n900 :) |
| 22:06.31 | johnx | SpeedEvil, a last minute board change to save a couple cents on a $600 non-mainstream device? |
| 22:06.34 | timeless | bobbyd: how do i get that? |
| 22:06.34 | AStorm | hm, so to use host mode, we'd need a hacked cable |
| 22:06.35 | johnx | I don't really buy it |
| 22:06.43 | johnx | AStorm, at the very least |
| 22:06.51 | johnx | or "non-standard" connectors |
| 22:06.55 | SpeedEvil | johnx: I read that as they needed to change the connector they were considering for usb-host |
| 22:06.56 | AStorm | yes yes |
| 22:06.58 | AStorm | :) |
| 22:07.01 | ShadowJK | AStorm, shouldn't a F-F adapter at the end of the included cable work? |
| 22:07.09 | bobbyd | timeless: just run "glxinfo" from a terminal if it's installed |
| 22:07.19 | AStorm | ShadowJK: no, the other side won't detect the USB host |
| 22:07.20 | johnx | SpeedEvil, ah, I agree with you there |
| 22:07.21 | timeless | it isn't in path |
| 22:07.31 | ShadowJK | AStorm, but it works fine on N810 with usbcontrol? |
| 22:07.42 | AStorm | N810 has a different setup |
| 22:07.43 | javispedro | bobbyd: glx and opengles don't mix |
| 22:07.44 | ShadowJK | I mean, to me it sounds exactly like the detection is what has been removed |
| 22:08.04 | javispedro | bobbyd: opengles uses egl. |
| 22:08.04 | AStorm | you will be able to force set the host mode as well I think |
| 22:08.04 | SpeedEvil | johnx: Hopefully it's at the moment at worst not providing power and needing a wierd cable. Rather than not being able to work at all. |
| 22:08.05 | bobbyd | javispedro: ah, ok, then I don't know how to get a list of device caps |
| 22:08.05 | AStorm | yes. |
| 22:08.05 | johnx | it's the same situation as the N800 |
| 22:08.14 | bobbyd | javispedro: yep, I get that now |
| 22:08.17 | AStorm | very similar indeed, johnx |
| 22:08.18 | ShadowJK | N800 also didn't provide power? |
| 22:08.21 | johnx | SpeedEvil, I bet it provides the power and doesn't need any internal mods |
| 22:08.29 | *** join/#maemo Jiten (n=blight@217.149.54.172) |
| 22:08.30 | AStorm | ShadowJK: exactly that |
| 22:08.36 | GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, N800 provided 100mA |
| 22:08.46 | ShadowJK | Maybe you're thinking of 770? |
| 22:08.52 | johnx | feature I want to see for t.m.o: wagering karma |
| 22:08.58 | SpeedEvil | johnx: Possibly. Looks like I'm not going to be able to get one till the n920 though, so it doesn't matter so much for me :/ |
| 22:09.00 | *** join/#maemo gunni_ (n=quassel@xdsl-81-173-254-39.netcologne.de) |
| 22:09.01 | *** join/#maemo mavhk (n=mavhc@cpc1-basf7-0-0-cust298.nott.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:09.02 | timeless | 770 required a hacked hub |
| 22:09.03 | AStorm | anyway. what I need is the device itself |
| 22:09.06 | AStorm | then I could check it |
| 22:09.19 | timeless | powered hub |
| 22:09.22 | *** join/#maemo wnd (n=wnd@83.145.228.154) |
| 22:09.24 | ShadowJK | timeless, one that supplied power in both directions? I think that's a standard feature of chinese hubs ;) |
| 22:09.25 | AStorm | barring that, schematics ;p but this might be much harder to come by |
| 22:09.29 | AStorm | all that NDA stuff |
| 22:09.38 | timeless | really? heh |
| 22:09.44 | AStorm | non-standard |
| 22:10.02 | AStorm | I had a hub like that which had a switch to enable such behavior |
| 22:10.02 | ShadowJK | timeless, yeah. I had huge problems finding a hub that DIDN'T do it. |
| 22:10.04 | lbt | AStorm: This was the point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPXyES0-9-Q |
| 22:10.12 | timeless | lol |
| 22:10.35 | ShadowJK | Needless to say, when I switched off my PC, the usb hub was trying to power the entire +5V bus of the PC. It burned itself out in a few days :) |
| 22:10.54 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu_N800 (n=wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 22:10.56 | timeless | rotfl |
| 22:11.20 | AStorm | lbt: what is this thing? |
| 22:11.28 | AStorm | lbt: port checker? |
| 22:11.29 | lbt | the board? |
| 22:11.31 | timeless | quality, that :) |
| 22:11.33 | *** join/#maemo promulo (n=romulo@189.71.22.244) |
| 22:11.40 | lbt | no, it's a usb I/O board |
| 22:11.42 | ShadowJK | It's also fun to see people commenting on cheap powered hubs on Amazon.. "hey when I connect this to my PC the Fan on my graphics card starts spinning even if computer is off? plz help" |
| 22:11.55 | AStorm | lbt: mhm |
| 22:12.03 | AStorm | so I guessed almost right :) |
| 22:12.08 | lbt | it makes it easy for us SW types to interface with electronics |
| 22:12.17 | *** join/#maemo Stskeeps (n=chobits@84.238.10.195) |
| 22:12.17 | AStorm | that should be possible in client mode if you squint hard enough |
| 22:12.21 | AStorm | and force the kernel a bit |
| 22:12.28 | *** join/#maemo aSIMULAter (n=me@dsl-hkibrasgw2-fef7de00-17.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:12.42 | *** join/#maemo Veggen (n=vegard@vegard.engen.priv.no) |
| 22:12.42 | *** join/#maemo derf (i=ptolemy@pool-173-73-174-187.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:12.43 | *** join/#maemo timoph (i=mjolk@kapsi.fi) |
| 22:12.51 | lbt | AStorm: actually : http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2009/09/want-to-push-need-kickstart.html |
| 22:12.54 | *** join/#maemo timo2 (n=Timo@kawari.kabuto.fi) |
| 22:14.16 | AStorm | heh |
| 22:14.27 | AStorm | what kind of pointlessness is this? |
| 22:15.03 | lbt | gee thanks. |
| 22:15.12 | AStorm | well, it looks fun |
| 22:15.15 | AStorm | but otherwise pointless |
| 22:15.17 | AStorm | :) |
| 22:15.20 | lbt | err |
| 22:15.34 | lbt | having a computer able to switch switches? |
| 22:15.47 | lbt | the basis of all computer controlled automation? |
| 22:15.50 | lbt | pointless? |
| 22:15.57 | AStorm | naaah |
| 22:16.06 | AStorm | but having N900 do that? wasteful. |
| 22:16.23 | lbt | ah, but plugging it into a speak-n-spell? |
| 22:16.25 | lbt | that's sane? |
| 22:16.36 | lbt | http://blogs.nokia.com/pushn900/ |
| 22:16.37 | lcuk | it sends text messages |
| 22:16.48 | javispedro | building a k.i.t.t. clone is pointfull enough. always. |
| 22:17.00 | lcuk | the radio one has real practical benefits |
| 22:17.01 | lbt | javispedro: absolutely |
| 22:17.16 | *** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoasb-ff0ddd00-14.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:17.30 | lcuk | it allows recv a text message, query last.fm use real radio to transmit music |
| 22:17.32 | johnx | I want my device to start the coffee whenever my wakeup alarm goes off |
| 22:17.45 | lcuk | from a simple - look incar use will work |
| 22:17.49 | lcuk | its a kickass start |
| 22:17.52 | javispedro | I just want it not try to kill me. |
| 22:18.00 | javispedro | a, and also manage my calendar. |
| 22:18.08 | lbt | hmm lcuk another idea... |
| 22:18.19 | lbt | n900 controlled car... |
| 22:18.21 | lbt | real car |
| 22:18.25 | javispedro | hides |
| 22:18.30 | wazd | n900 ISS :D |
| 22:18.39 | bobbyd | rockets |
| 22:18.40 | lcuk | KITT for reall |
| 22:18.41 | javispedro | though the webserver for a moment |
| 22:18.45 | timeless | k.a.r.r. |
| 22:18.45 | bobbyd | got to be rockets |
| 22:19.05 | lcuk | ejector seat |
| 22:19.09 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, coffee makers with internal clocks are cheap. ;) |
| 22:19.10 | timo2 | how about something a tad simpler like automatic hdr capture for the camera |
| 22:19.12 | lcuk | and turbo boost |
| 22:19.25 | johnx | GeneralAntilles, nah, but I get up at *different* times each day |
| 22:19.41 | GeneralAntilles | Ah |
| 22:19.42 | AStorm | lbt: now THAT's more like it |
| 22:19.56 | AStorm | lbt: I'm all for making N900 into a car diagnostic tool |
| 22:20.02 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil1 (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 22:20.12 | *** join/#maemo sp3000 (n=tt@hoasnet-fe21dd00-183.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:20.27 | AStorm | lbt: btw, did you manage to control the speech synth in Speak&Spell? |
| 22:20.27 | mavhk | I want a device that works out what time to wake me up based on my appointment calendar |
| 22:20.28 | lbt | diagnostic? I was going to connect that usb controller to the electronic throttle on a supercharged Jag |
| 22:20.42 | AStorm | lbt: that might be actually easier |
| 22:20.43 | johnx | AStorm, I actually got a borrowed netbook hooked up at one point, but it turns out my car doesn't emit anything except "CEL" codes |
| 22:20.45 | lbt | AStorm: that's not my speak'n'spell |
| 22:20.50 | *** join/#maemo jkyro (i=jasu@dsl-hkibrasgw1-fe23f900-77.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:20.51 | AStorm | johnx: hehe |
| 22:20.54 | lbt | they got a pro HW dev to do that |
| 22:21.12 | johnx | it was nice to see my car isn't broken at least...but still |
| 22:21.25 | AStorm | lbt: ... |
| 22:21.28 | AStorm | ffs |
| 22:21.40 | AStorm | they could've made an N900 controlled car just as easily |
| 22:21.43 | johnx | hmm, what might be more fun is a "ghost" speak and spell |
| 22:22.08 | lbt | AStorm: yeah, but that's not what they want inside their flagship stores saying "hacker toy" |
| 22:22.17 | AStorm | hehehehe |
| 22:22.19 | lbt | outside maybe... |
| 22:22.25 | AStorm | now *that* would be quite a trick |
| 22:22.37 | AStorm | make a car that has the UI from one of those sci-fi movies |
| 22:22.46 | johnx | ever seen the grand challenge? |
| 22:22.49 | AStorm | with routing and whatnot |
| 22:22.53 | AStorm | johnx: I did. |
| 22:23.19 | johnx | dunno if the n900 has the guts for it, but it'd certainly make a good remote :D |
| 22:23.28 | johnx | set way points on a neat little scrolling map |
| 22:23.48 | AStorm | sure it has |
| 22:23.50 | johnx | (I mean I'm sure it has the guts to be a remote) |
| 22:23.58 | johnx | but not to be the main onboard computer for one of those things |
| 22:23.59 | AStorm | driving a car requires suprisingly little CPU power |
| 22:24.10 | AStorm | but it requires very good realtime capabilities instead |
| 22:24.21 | johnx | image analysis? lidar interpretation? |
| 22:24.24 | AStorm | and some additional sensors |
| 22:24.31 | AStorm | lidar and radar |
| 22:24.33 | lbt | BFG scheduler... |
| 22:24.53 | lbt | practically RT |
| 22:24.55 | AStorm | maybe doppler can be used. |
| 22:25.05 | johnx | AStorm, uh huh. I'll believe it when I see it |
| 22:25.09 | *** join/#maemo SpComb (i=terom@zapotek.paivola.fi) |
| 22:25.14 | AStorm | johnx: not as hard as you'd think |
| 22:25.24 | AStorm | the real challenge is making the car run w/o those sensors |
| 22:25.30 | AStorm | on pure optical and acoustic data |
| 22:25.37 | AStorm | :> |
| 22:25.40 | johnx | i guess that's why everyone who entered the grand challenge did fantastically on their first try |
| 22:25.54 | AStorm | no, they just coded in Java. |
| 22:25.57 | AStorm | :P |
| 22:26.22 | AStorm | really, one team had their robot overload its memory |
| 22:26.31 | AStorm | with recognized objects |
| 22:26.35 | AStorm | talk about poor coding |
| 22:26.54 | javispedro | you see poor coder, i see the language still could do better. |
| 22:27.05 | javispedro | (start the flame :D ) |
| 22:27.09 | AStorm | true. |
| 22:27.31 | AStorm | anyway, the problem is that they're driving over flat surface with almost no guidance |
| 22:27.32 | AStorm | now, we have a GPS in N900 |
| 22:27.37 | AStorm | :P |
| 22:27.51 | johnx | they could make as many waypoints as they wanted |
| 22:27.54 | johnx | and yes, I think they had GPS |
| 22:28.02 | AStorm | so we get accurate enough position data if we combine this with some extra lidar/radar/doppler sensors |
| 22:28.28 | AStorm | johnx: so what was the actual problem? avoiding rocks? |
| 22:28.31 | AStorm | ;p |
| 22:28.50 | johnx | AStorm, you tell me, since you seem to think it's so easy :P |
| 22:29.08 | javispedro | GPS without DGPS isn't around 4-5 meters? that's hardly precise enough data for a robot. |
| 22:29.20 | AStorm | no. |
| 22:29.23 | AStorm | it's ~1m |
| 22:29.29 | javispedro | O.o |
| 22:29.30 | derf | johnx: AStorm is in grad-student mode, where everything seems easy. |
| 22:29.39 | AStorm | derf: it's not *too* easy |
| 22:29.46 | AStorm | and definitely not a job for one person. |
| 22:29.49 | derf | Because you haven't had to actually _do_ it yet. |
| 22:29.54 | *** join/#maemo tonikitoo (n=tonikito@201-75-93-253-ma.cpe.vivax.com.br) |
| 22:30.02 | johnx | AStorm, you watched the grand challenge video (the second one), right? |
| 22:30.12 | AStorm | johnx: checking now... |
| 22:30.13 | derf | You know there was an Urban challenge, too, right? |
| 22:30.21 | johnx | AStorm, totally worth watching :) |
| 22:30.54 | AStorm | derf: that's harder I think, yes |
| 22:31.02 | javispedro | AStorm: sure about 1m? I remark I said "without DGPS". |
| 22:31.07 | AStorm | the whole problem is that you have to recognize artificial stop conditions |
| 22:31.17 | AStorm | javispedro: yes, with 3D fix. |
| 22:31.25 | AStorm | 5 sat lock or so |
| 22:31.32 | javispedro | 5 sat only?? |
| 22:31.34 | javispedro | no way. |
| 22:31.39 | CShadowRun | lol i've just been having a hilarious conversation with my brother, he thinks hes going to plug an SDXC card into the SDHC slot on the g1 |
| 22:31.40 | AStorm | ... |
| 22:31.44 | CShadowRun | and have 512GB+ of storage space |
| 22:31.50 | AStorm | javispedro: check HDOP data please :) |
| 22:32.06 | lcuk | is stanley still the lead car in those urban challenges? |
| 22:32.16 | johnx | CShadowRun, yeah, it'll work after he 1) finds a 512GB card and 2) formats it to something non-exfat |
| 22:32.21 | johnx | might need a hacked kernel |
| 22:32.30 | CShadowRun | really? i thought the hardware was diffrent |
| 22:32.49 | AStorm | johnx: could you give me a more direct link to the videos? |
| 22:32.49 | johnx | CShadowRun, nope, SDHC->SDXC is an artificial change |
| 22:32.50 | CShadowRun | oh, well there we go then |
| 22:32.52 | johnx | AStorm, here's one: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8594517128412883394# |
| 22:32.55 | CShadowRun | i assume the n900 can do that too? |
| 22:33.04 | johnx | AStorm, the discovery channel coverage is a good start |
| 22:33.14 | johnx | CShadowRun, linux-based devices should have no trouble |
| 22:33.40 | johnx | the linux sd/sdhc/sdxc hackers don't believe in artificial limits :) |
| 22:33.53 | javispedro | AStorm: 0.5 meter - 1 meter is what I get with DGPS. I can't see how GPS could get that. |
| 22:34.01 | ShadowJK | has lots of card readers that don't do sdhc reliably :) |
| 22:34.24 | ShadowJK | javispedro, I guess it depends on if you want 1m absolute precision or 1m relative precision |
| 22:34.34 | johnx | ShadowJK, sd->sdhc is a whole different story |
| 22:34.40 | johnx | that was actually an addressing change |
| 22:34.45 | javispedro | ShadowJK: absolute. I can believe 1m in relative. |
| 22:35.12 | ShadowJK | on maemo mapper the tracks look really accurate from when I park the car.. you can see exactly how I moved. BUT, the next day, the exact same shape tracks will appear with 10m offset :) |
| 22:35.51 | bobbyd | how do I close a scratchbox session? |
| 22:36.18 | bobbyd | I'm trying to select the X86 session in the SDK, but it says I have to close my current session... |
| 22:36.27 | javispedro | actually, iirc a common "household" gps may get 0.5m relative |
| 22:36.56 | javispedro | (max) |
| 22:36.59 | ShadowJK | once I put N810 in my pocket though, the tracks become a bit more irregular :) |
| 22:37.16 | ShadowJK | But it has quite awesome relative performance when in the carstand |
| 22:37.23 | johnx | bobbyd, logout from the sb shell? |
| 22:37.34 | bobbyd | johnx: got it :) |
| 22:37.47 | AStorm | javispedro: by abusing different frequency signals to correct for ionospheric errors |
| 22:37.54 | AStorm | :) |
| 22:38.05 | ShadowJK | All the satellites transmit on the same frequency.. |
| 22:38.17 | AStorm | and using very high precision maths to remove computation error |
| 22:38.17 | AStorm | ShadowJK: WRONG. |
| 22:38.17 | ShadowJK | But I heard they were adding a second frequency in the future? |
| 22:38.19 | AStorm | they don't anymore |
| 22:38.28 | AStorm | there are at least 2 freqs |
| 22:38.29 | javispedro | "anymore"? |
| 22:38.47 | AStorm | one is the encrypted P(Y), whose carrier wave you can use to correct the ionospheric error |
| 22:39.03 | SpeedEvil1 | Common household GPSs don't do multifrequency |
| 22:39.05 | SpeedEvil1 | L1 and L2 |
| 22:39.08 | AStorm | yes, they don't. |
| 22:39.11 | AStorm | :) |
| 22:39.22 | SpeedEvil | They may do WAAS or EGGNOG |
| 22:39.25 | SpeedEvil | or whatever it is |
| 22:39.28 | javispedro | ==DGPS |
| 22:39.33 | javispedro | EGNOS. |
| 22:39.53 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 22:40.15 | ShadowJK | gps high on eggnog |
| 22:40.16 | ShadowJK | :) |
| 22:40.20 | javispedro | =) |
| 22:40.26 | SpeedEvil | It'd be so nice if GPS worked properly indoors. |
| 22:40.43 | AStorm | SpeedEvil: hmh, that's far harder than getting ~1m precision |
| 22:40.45 | AStorm | :> |
| 22:40.46 | luke-jr | N810's does, when it works |
| 22:40.48 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 22:40.50 | SpeedEvil | Much. |
| 22:40.52 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, what, give directions at the grocery store? |
| 22:41.00 | SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: why not. |
| 22:41.03 | GeneralAntilles | "The milk is in aisle 10." |
| 22:41.12 | SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: I _want_ that. |
| 22:41.15 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: you say that as if software exists for directions on Linux |
| 22:41.16 | AStorm | javispedro: hey, and we'll get Galileo+GPS receivers |
| 22:41.17 | SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: I suck at shopping. |
| 22:41.23 | javispedro | AStorm: hopefully. |
| 22:41.23 | AStorm | that will allow for even more precision |
| 22:41.32 | GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, because it does. |
| 22:41.34 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: It does. |
| 22:41.41 | luke-jr | like what? O.o |
| 22:41.48 | GeneralAntilles | Maemo Mapper |
| 22:41.48 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: tomtom has shipped millions of navigation on linux. |
| 22:41.49 | luke-jr | closest I saw was Maemo Mapper that relied on Google |
| 22:41.57 | GeneralAntilles | Hell, Ovi Maps, TomTom and Garmin. |
| 22:42.00 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: tomtom's is tied to their hw, no? |
| 22:42.07 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: Well - yes. :/ |
| 22:42.22 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: you can buy it for the PC - but not for arm :/ |
| 22:42.23 | ShadowJK | tomtom works on symbian too ;-) |
| 22:42.41 | javispedro | tomtom soft is not tied to their hw |
| 22:42.48 | javispedro | but to their linux userland |
| 22:42.53 | luke-jr | javispedro: effectively |
| 22:42.54 | javispedro | i would compare it to android. |
| 22:42.55 | javispedro | only closed. |
| 22:42.58 | luke-jr | legally, too, afaik |
| 22:43.11 | luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: Ovi Maps website says it's not available for Linux |
| 22:43.16 | javispedro | luke-jr: there was a project to port it to zaurus iirc? |
| 22:43.20 | SpeedEvil | Also there is the maps - which can be tied to a SD card in some cases. |
| 22:43.22 | GeneralAntilles | Arguably that's inaccurate. |
| 22:43.23 | javispedro | do you know if it ever produced something? |
| 22:43.24 | AStorm | luke-jr: all TomTom devices are Linux on MIPS. |
| 22:43.29 | SpeedEvil | And openstreetmap based devices. |
| 22:43.43 | SpeedEvil | But that is debatably functional. |
| 22:43.51 | luke-jr | my point was mainly that driving directions are impractical on N810 anyway, regardless of inside a grocery store -.- |
| 22:43.53 | SpeedEvil | At the moment in various laces. |
| 22:43.59 | SpeedEvil | places |
| 22:44.02 | luke-jr | it was not about proprietary products that happen to (ab)use Linux |
| 22:44.20 | javispedro | but don't worry, we'll get k.i.t.t. emulation software to guide us in those grocery stores. |
| 22:44.49 | AStorm | luke-jr: hehehe, they are practical |
| 22:44.51 | SpeedEvil | An app that did routing, and barcode reading, and price lookup would be nice. |
| 22:45.06 | AStorm | if we get good enough maps in vector format |
| 22:45.09 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: indeed |
| 22:45.14 | javispedro | SpeedEvil: add a robot and we have a winner. |
| 22:45.20 | luke-jr | lol |
| 22:45.26 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: I have one of those. Employed by tesco. |
| 22:45.38 | javispedro | those damn internet shops. |
| 22:45.42 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: but I just make one round through the grocery store, noting which items are nearby, then use that for categories |
| 22:45.51 | AStorm | javispedro: "add a robot" haha |
| 22:45.55 | AStorm | easier said than done |
| 22:46.03 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: I'm currently doing my shopping over the internet about monthly. |
| 22:46.10 | javispedro | :) |
| 22:46.15 | AStorm | although my autonomous 4-wheeler worked very well in a crowded environment too |
| 22:46.26 | AStorm | and it had less CPU than N900 |
| 22:46.31 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: relying heavily on buy-one-get-one free offers that I buy 6 months of. |
| 22:46.43 | javispedro | hhehe |
| 22:46.57 | SpeedEvil | But I'd like to be able to take my scraped pricelist for tesco, and walk round other shops. |
| 22:47.00 | AStorm | the most problematic part was actually responding fast enough to people moving about |
| 22:47.16 | AStorm | need hard RT for it, the CPU had barely enough power |
| 22:47.25 | javispedro | AStorm: so, what? tease them before they even have the chance to move. |
| 22:47.35 | AStorm | javispedro: tease them = hard RT |
| 22:47.42 | AStorm | avoid them, also hard RT |
| 22:47.55 | javispedro | then taze them. |
| 22:47.56 | SpeedEvil | Smash through the puny humans = soft RT. |
| 22:48.05 | AStorm | yes! |
| 22:48.06 | AStorm | :> |
| 22:48.14 | lcuk | the laser tracking should cut down puny bags of mostly water |
| 22:48.21 | lcuk | no point in messing the paintwork up |
| 22:48.24 | AStorm | hmm, not |
| 22:48.36 | AStorm | it would need to be quick enough in tracking |
| 22:48.50 | lcuk | or powerful enoug hat vaporising |
| 22:48.55 | AStorm | otherwise smashing becomes a good option |
| 22:49.27 | javispedro | = priceless RT. |
| 22:49.51 | AStorm | need some nice realtime routing algo as well |
| 22:50.00 | AStorm | we had to resort to simple smooth avoidance |
| 22:50.06 | AStorm | anything else was too slow |
| 22:50.37 | johnx | AStorm, watching the video? |
| 22:50.37 | AStorm | it had only the tiniest bit of prediction in |
| 22:50.43 | AStorm | johnx: not yet, dling |
| 22:50.46 | javispedro | nite |
| 22:50.59 | AStorm | 75% done, so I can start to watch it |
| 22:51.06 | johnx | ah, the one I linked? the stanford one? |
| 22:51.19 | johnx | or the discovery one? |
| 22:51.41 | AStorm | the stanford one I think |
| 22:51.52 | johnx | yeah, lots of good tech stuff in it |
| 22:51.56 | AStorm | "Winning the DARPA Grand Challenge" |
| 22:51.59 | johnx | yup |
| 22:52.08 | johnx | watching it online. lots of stuff I hadn't heard before |
| 22:53.00 | AStorm | I think DARPA requires use of optical info |
| 22:53.08 | AStorm | that is hard, very. |
| 22:53.11 | johnx | nope |
| 22:53.17 | johnx | for this one they used GPS and LIDAR |
| 22:53.29 | AStorm | mhm |
| 22:53.29 | SpeedEvil | lidar = optical |
| 22:53.32 | AStorm | neat :) |
| 22:53.36 | AStorm | SpeedEvil: not really |
| 22:53.39 | SpeedEvil | true |
| 22:53.41 | AStorm | it's distance info |
| 22:53.47 | SpeedEvil | but it is optical |
| 22:53.57 | SpeedEvil | has a LIDAR under design for ebay |
| 22:54.05 | SpeedEvil | Well - laser-ranger |
| 22:54.14 | SpeedEvil | It can of course be scanned |
| 22:55.28 | AStorm | what was the "No dynamic pa..ing" rule? |
| 22:55.33 | AStorm | I can't read it from the movie |
| 22:56.02 | johnx | dunno |
| 23:00.17 | *** join/#maemo beavis (n=mk@p4FC31E62.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:02.14 | AStorm | blah blah nice steering idea |
| 23:02.33 | AStorm | except it's too sensitive to noise :> |
| 23:02.46 | johnx | wait til you're ~25 minutes in |
| 23:03.42 | AStorm | hm, nice fluid-based system |
| 23:03.59 | AStorm | similar to our simple avoidance code |
| 23:04.48 | AStorm | but it's not good enough, yes |
| 23:05.02 | AStorm | have to track "centripedal force" instead |
| 23:05.46 | AStorm | otherwise you can't go fast at all |
| 23:06.03 | AStorm | people have a built-in accelerometer, you know |
| 23:06.15 | lcuk | the overview and the massive problems they solved is impressive |
| 23:06.21 | lcuk | really really strong teamwork |
| 23:06.28 | AStorm | mhm |
| 23:10.04 | AStorm | heh, their car has too short lookahead |
| 23:10.21 | AStorm | it drives like my mom |
| 23:10.38 | johnx | they fixed it later |
| 23:10.46 | johnx | their fix is really cool :D |
| 23:12.27 | lcuk | yeah johnx |
| 23:15.03 | AStorm | why the hell didn't they use a Z accelerometer? |
| 23:15.05 | AStorm | :> |
| 23:15.11 | johnx | they do |
| 23:15.20 | AStorm | not precise enough? :> |
| 23:15.26 | johnx | for what? |
| 23:16.13 | johnx | errr, what are you calling z? |
| 23:16.19 | johnx | left/right? up/down? |
| 23:16.57 | AStorm | up-down |
| 23:17.06 | AStorm | left-right is very useful too |
| 23:17.12 | johnx | yeah, they're using up/down |
| 23:17.35 | AStorm | the problem is of course that's "old data" :> |
| 23:19.34 | johnx | yeah, the react to it to slow down, assuming that "bumps come in groups" |
| 23:20.08 | AStorm | neat stuff for vision |
| 23:20.29 | AStorm | still a cheap hack |
| 23:20.30 | AStorm | :P |
| 23:20.34 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 23:20.51 | johnx | :P |
| 23:21.20 | johnx | sorry, AStorm, you're still falling into the whole "armchair" "roboticist" group :P |
| 23:21.27 | AStorm | no no |
| 23:21.36 | lcuk | johnx, look at Benoît Mandelbrot's work on fractal clustering of noise within modem signals |
| 23:21.36 | AStorm | I'm failling into "face detector" group |
| 23:21.43 | SpeedEvil | Robotic armchairs are cool. |
| 23:21.55 | johnx | SpeedEvil, I want one :D |
| 23:22.05 | AStorm | johnx: my expertise field is AI ;p that's why I said it's a neat hack |
| 23:22.17 | johnx | calling it "cheap" though? |
| 23:22.32 | johnx | SpeedEvil, maybe a nice la-z-boy mounted on top of an AI controlled car |
| 23:22.33 | AStorm | cheap it is |
| 23:22.36 | AStorm | it's a threshold detector |
| 23:23.53 | SpeedEvil | johnx: http://www.airtrax.com/vehicles/sidewinder.html |
| 23:24.37 | johnx | SpeedEvil, heh...I'm thinking more like a perfectly normal arm chair on top of a perfectly normal roof rack on a perfectly normal looking car :) |
| 23:24.46 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 23:24.52 | SpeedEvil | Cool sideways wheels |
| 23:24.55 | SpeedEvil | ^ |
| 23:24.58 | johnx | those wheels are darn cool though |
| 23:25.02 | johnx | just saw that after I commented |
| 23:25.20 | AStorm | oooh, UCB just sunk :) |
| 23:25.35 | SpeedEvil | United Colours of Bennaton? |
| 23:26.35 | AStorm | no, Berkeley's bike |
| 23:26.42 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 23:27.07 | *** part/#maemo Robin_Watts (n=Javacat@82.152.254.184) |
| 23:27.10 | *** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=CBabbage@uhartford236105.hartford.edu) |
| 23:28.08 | lcuk | AStorm, kind of expected |
| 23:28.26 | lcuk | bikes have more than 2 wheels for some fraction of the time |
| 23:31.56 | AStorm | oh no no no, they still have 2 |
| 23:32.22 | AStorm | but 4 points of support |
| 23:35.17 | lcuk | heh |
| 23:37.49 | AStorm | hm, I have some fun ideas for "road vision problem", hehe |
| 23:39.55 | lcuk | put them towards a nush n900 interaction instead |
| 23:40.16 | AStorm | meh, rather toward my eng degree: hwr |
| 23:40.25 | lcuk | jave a mini rc car using camera drivign around store and not knocking legs |
| 23:40.33 | lcuk | have |
| 23:40.45 | AStorm | mmmm, hey, we've done it already |
| 23:40.49 | AStorm | but with a weaker armel |
| 23:41.02 | AStorm | I found some company selling cheap OMAP 3 boards |
| 23:41.19 | lcuk | yeah they are called beaglebords :P |
| 23:41.21 | lcuk | boards |
| 23:41.29 | AStorm | more powerful than beagleboards and far cheaper |
| 23:42.08 | ShadowJK | more powerful? o rly |
| 23:42.09 | AStorm | what was the company name... hmm, yes, I wrote that down |
| 23:42.20 | ShadowJK | what cpu then? |
| 23:42.27 | lcuk | and how cheap |
| 23:42.40 | AStorm | like, half the price of a beagleboard |
| 23:42.46 | microlith | do tell |
| 23:42.47 | AStorm | TmiLL |
| 23:43.28 | ShadowJK | what cpu? |
| 23:43.34 | AStorm | or was it EmiLL, or something like it |
| 23:43.43 | AStorm | ShadowJK: I think OMAP 3530 |
| 23:43.52 | ShadowJK | hm |
| 23:44.27 | AStorm | Dev Kit 8000 that is. |
| 23:44.56 | AStorm | I've seen it work really well irl |
| 23:47.09 | *** join/#maemo promulo (n=romulo@189.71.89.237) |
| 23:47.22 | AStorm | damnit, what's the name of the company again |
| 23:50.02 | AStorm | I'll have to ask that friend for the url for the retailer |
| 23:50.37 | AStorm | yeah right, TimLL not TmiLL ;p |
| 23:50.42 | AStorm | failed |
| 23:53.37 | AStorm | and I still can't find that retailer |
| 23:54.13 | AStorm | that was likely that Embest kit |
