IRC log for #maemo on 20090915

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00:25.27b-man16hmm. seems too quiet :/
00:28.22pupnikeurope sleeps.  USA ...
00:30.32b-man16it's 8:29 pm here so....
00:33.03pupnikthe right time for USA to be coding for maemo after work :)
00:33.22wazdeurope never sleeps :)
00:37.15GeneralAntillesNo, that's just wazd.
00:39.02MuJwe finns function better when it's dark
00:39.41MuJdark and wet and cold
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01:56.54Macerooo
01:56.57Macernew episode of true blood
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02:24.30Macerblah. it kind of sucked
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02:44.25neatojoneshello.  Does anyone know how to fix a loose screen connector ribbon?
02:48.29pupnikreplacement ribbon?
02:49.53neatojonesAny idea where to get one?
02:50.09GeneralAntillesOpen 'er up and reseat it?
02:50.11neatojonesI'm guessing my N810 is just permanently a gonner.
02:50.14GeneralAntillesOr is the ribbon itself damaged?
02:50.22neatojonesI opened it up.  But couldn't see any problem with it.
02:50.43neatojonesdidn't want to pull it off and then re-set it on, if it was only going to mess things up worse.
02:51.00GeneralAntillesThe connector tends to come loose.
02:51.01neatojonesthe touch screen is very innacurate and only occaisionally works.
02:51.04GeneralAntillesSo it has to be reseated.
02:51.07neatojonesyeah.
02:51.12neatojonesany good way to do that?
02:51.14GeneralAntillesNot usually an issue with the ribbon itself.
02:51.24neatojonesfigured that might be the case.
02:51.44GeneralAntillesJust disconnect and reconnect
02:51.48GeneralAntillescrashanddie has done it
02:51.55GeneralAntillesIf you want to talk to him before you try.
02:51.58neatojonesdoes it slide back on easily if it is removed.  I read in the Nokia manual that it has to be thrown away if it is pulled off.
02:52.03neatojonesthanks GA
02:52.09neatojonesI might try that.
02:55.40zerojayvsync tearing on N900 apparently now fixed: http://www.valeriovalerio.org/?p=266
02:59.55GeneralAntillesI'm pretty sure he was paid off.
03:00.01GeneralAntillesJust a Nokia shill.
03:00.48zerojaylol
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03:10.04zerojayGeneralAntilles: Aren't you on the shill payroll yet?
03:10.17zerojayIt's ALL the rage.
03:10.24GeneralAntillesI'm bribe free.
03:10.29zerojayCome be a part of the Maemo conspiracy.
03:11.40zerojayWhere we keep everyone down for the man.
03:11.49zerojaysings Stonecutters song.
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03:19.40RST38hreMoo
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03:26.37ShadowJKwhat was the problem with "tearsync" anyway?
03:27.52ShadowJKlcuk has tear-free liqbase on n8x0, right..
03:28.29RST38hShadowJK: Run iNES, look at some game thta does horizontal scrolling
03:29.04RST38hThe "step" effect you see is the tearsync. Some people absolutely hate that.
03:29.22ShadowJKif they use sdl or regular x11 pixmaps it'll tear even on a PC..
03:29.36RST38hyou can avoid that by doublebuffering
03:29.53RST38hor by blitting on vblanks
03:30.47ShadowJKyeah but nobody (except lcuk) actually makes any effort to do that?
03:31.04RST38hsome people do
03:31.11RST38hI do not because it will cost me framerate
03:31.12ShadowJKso I'm just a bit puzzled how people expect it to work :)
03:32.22ShadowJKor how one would fix it for apps that don't ask for it
03:32.45RST38hyou have to use doubebuffer explicitely
03:34.14ShadowJKeven if you ask SDL for it, SDL doesn't do it when outputting to regular X afaik
03:35.29RST38hnot sure, I am not using sdl...
03:35.39ShadowJKwhat do you use?
03:37.00RST38hI use GTK+ Image widget when in windowed mode, fb0 + omapfb ioctl()s when in full screen mode
03:37.54ShadowJKyeah gtk isn't going to lift a finger for it
03:39.14ShadowJKa side effect of compositing, if used on n900, would be that, if the hw can do it, it would be easier to make regular x11 calls tearfree
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03:41.01ShadowJKthose games are probably using SDL, and sdl doesn't do tearfree on X :/
03:48.59RST38hdoubt x11 will be any faster on n900
03:49.29ShadowJKlol
03:49.36RST38hon n810 omapfb is significantly faster than using x11 (with gtk+ widget or direct x11 window)
03:50.33ShadowJKin the ideal case you save a memcpy()
03:50.52ShadowJKbut gtk is far from ideal efficiency :)
03:51.11RST38hgtk is a pig, indeed
03:51.42RST38hunfortunately, there is no way to get xwindow from hildon application window
03:51.54ShadowJKthat and application devlopers never even look at what their apps do
03:52.50ShadowJKwonders if the scrollbar in xchat is still redrawn 7 times
03:54.09RST38hhttp://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2009/09/500x_milliondollaaudio2.jpg  <=== guess what is special about this
03:54.17RST38hoh shit it is in the url =(
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03:55.25ShadowJKtries to find a media player on n8x0
03:55.49ShadowJKbuiltin doesnt do flac (and ogg-support package doesnt add it)
03:56.20ShadowJKukmp seems usable, and faster than builtin
03:56.41ShadowJKit shows it's python though :)
03:57.40kulvebuilt-in player will do flac and ogg in n900 with ogg-support
03:57.58ShadowJKIt claims I'm currently listening to: [u'029d9\u0163d... too long to type in
03:59.09ShadowJKdsp-flac on n8x0 added dsp-powered flac support to built-in
03:59.21ShadowJKbut sound is barely recognizable :)
03:59.50RST38hhttp://gizmodo.com/5359337/hitler-rants-about-ipod-touchs-missing-camera
03:59.52Macerhm
03:59.56Macerdefying gravity isn't too bad
04:00.02RST38hShadowJK: What is the point in having it then?
04:00.36ShadowJKrst38h: none.
04:01.12ShadowJKuninstalled it
04:03.28RST38h<sleep>
04:07.50ShadowJKmaybe i spoke too soon
04:08.01ShadowJKcant find any of his flac files in ukkmp
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04:25.34johnxmornin'
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05:00.21carboncopymorning
05:00.25carboncopyafternoon - here
05:00.35johnxallo
05:00.40carboncopyhello
05:00.46carboncopygot a quick question
05:00.51johnxshoot
05:00.59carboncopyI have formatted the Internal Memory of the N810 to ext3
05:01.09carboncopyif I want apps to be installed there
05:01.50carboncopydo I need to like symlink usr lib opt after i copied it there?
05:02.02johnxwhat would probably not be a good idea
05:02.13johnxthe card won't be available to the OS until far into the boot process
05:02.14carboncopy:)
05:02.20carboncopyoh
05:02.30carboncopywhat if i just want apps to be installed there
05:02.45johnxwhat you probably want to do is clone to sd
05:02.57carboncopyboot from flash/SD?
05:03.05johnxyup, boot from sd
05:04.13johnxhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card
05:06.10Stskeepsmorning johnx
05:06.19johnxmornin' :)
05:07.38b1ackdeathits late at night here z_z
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05:08.15johnx~ugt
05:08.16infobotmethinks ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
05:08.17johnx:)
05:09.39b1ackdeathmy apologizes
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05:10.50b1ackdeathi wish my n810 was in better condition, altho my blog is still geting file downloads :)
05:11.22johnxheh. :D notthing to apologize for. I'm just a promoter of UGT ever since I found out about it
05:11.44carboncopythanks :D i'll skip that for now
05:11.44carboncopy:D
05:11.50b1ackdeathi see
05:17.57MaceN8x0hm
05:18.08MaceN8x0defying gravity is like
05:18.11MaceN8x0lost
05:18.34MaceN8x0where it will take 10 seasons to get to any type of point
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05:31.34carboncopyam back, another RFC
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05:32.04carboncopywhy should I stick to FAT32 on my SD
05:32.26Myrttiwhat were you thinking instead?
05:32.35Myrttimost appliances read only fat32
05:33.00zerojayCompatibility's sake.
05:33.15carboncopyI use Linux on my Desktop
05:33.21carboncopyso i can read ext3 no prob
05:33.30carboncopyinterms of apps on N810
05:33.41zerojayAnd if you're not at your desktop?
05:33.49carboncopythe FS is transparent to them is it not? since kernel handles it
05:33.56carboncopySCP?
05:33.58carboncopyLoL
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05:34.26zerojayI wouldn't change from FAT32 unless I had a majorly important reason for it.
05:34.47zerojayJust simply because you never know when you might be stuck on some Windows machine with an emergency.
05:34.56zerojayAnd it's those rare times you'll be thankful.
05:34.59carboncopyoh true..
05:35.24carboncopyit happened before, was trying to download a wifi driver for a windows machine
05:35.50carboncopy:D
05:41.24carboncopyanother reason why i should keep to fat32 : i could not write to my ext3 from linux (not plugnplay)
05:43.10johnxcarboncopy, works fine here
05:46.06johnxcompiles h-i-m svn on his n800, canola on his wii, and watches flash videos on his Athlon64. heh.
05:46.45Meiz_n810johnx seems to have 3 core brain :)
05:46.55Meiz_n8103 tasks at the same time
05:47.05johnxor I'm working on developing ADD
05:47.15johnxwatching robot chicken should help with that ...
05:51.10Stskeepsyay robot chicken
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06:00.51MaceN8x0im still watching defying gravity
06:01.06MaceN8x0good show although it is kind of slow
06:05.32Stskeepsthey should put up the pilot on hulu
06:06.39tank-manI spit on hulu
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06:09.30Captain_Picardno one who watches hulu are true developers
06:10.59tank-manonly americans watch hulu
06:11.34Stskeepsor people with ssh
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06:16.54MaceN8x0wtf is hulu?
06:17.20tank-manweb site with flash video of tv shows
06:17.33Stskeepsyou don't know hulu, MaceN8x0 ?
06:17.39Stskeepshulu.com
06:17.47tank-manonly for americans and those that like to break Terms of Service agreements
06:17.56MaceN8x0no
06:18.01MaceN8x0never used it
06:18.25Stskeepsyou would probably like it with all the tv you see
06:18.32tank-manI think its only re-runs of tv shows
06:18.37MaceN8x0heh
06:18.50tank-manmythtv > hulu
06:18.52Stskeepsnop, often up to date
06:18.53MaceN8x0sounds like it would be crappy video
06:19.14MaceN8x0plus... no need ;)
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06:56.14Meiz_n810yawns
06:58.53Meiz_n810still a month until i get my touchbook :|
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07:03.25johnxouch
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07:09.07Meiz_n810johnx: do you know when pandora will ship, i have been kinda disappointed with it. (I almost sold my n810 before 2008 christmas to get pandora when it comes out.. o.o)
07:09.31Meiz_n810wasn't it october?
07:10.40johnxyeah, it was supposed to be late-october 2008 :)
07:10.50johnxmaybe it'll be october or november 2009
07:10.58johnxI can't predict better than anyone else
07:11.04Meiz_n810wow
07:11.50Meiz_n810anyway, this is interesting year :) pandora n900 and TB
07:16.36Meiz_n810is supposed to study how to calculate cone agreace and capacity -_-
07:18.18Meiz_n810is insead, using dictonary to find out that "kartio" is "cone" in english...
07:20.25Meiz_n810oh.. i'm sooo bored.
07:20.41Meiz_n810spamming this channel with what i do
07:20.42Meiz_n810sorry
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07:24.34aspectagreance?
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07:27.14Meiz_n810area i mean
07:28.01aspectah
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07:47.32crashanddie_GeneralAntilles, please don't tell on me in the future
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07:49.26SpeedEvil1I think 2010 is to be the year of small relatively open linux devices.
07:49.40threshI think 2010 is to be the year of Linux on Desktop.
07:49.59SpeedEvil1Starting to come out of china, from some of hte myriad of small vendors
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07:51.01crashanddie_SpeedEvil1, and there we have, yet another idiot with his stupid predictions
07:51.27SpeedEvilPerhaps.
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07:52.41crashanddie_SpeedEvil, there's been "year of linux" memes for the past 15 years, and it never happened, people got even more excited when vista came out "Surely people will NOT put up with this", or with the eeePCs ("Oh look, people do buy linux"), but the matter of fact is: NO, the end consumer doesn't give a flying fuck about what is running on his device, he doesn't even know there's something running in there apart from the hamster (which i
07:52.41crashanddie_s just a metaphor for the CPU)
07:52.43SpeedEvilIf I'm wrong, I will buy you one shiny apple.
07:52.51SpeedEviland yes.
07:52.54SpeedEvilI agree with that.
07:53.05SpeedEvilTo be more explicit.
07:53.32timeless_mbpwww.webhamster.com
07:53.33SpeedEvilIt'll be the first two or 10 devices out of china that sell small volumes of relatively open linux.
07:53.49SpeedEvilIt's _not_ going to be a widespread revolution.
07:54.13*** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein)
07:55.36SpeedEvilThere certainly aren't 100m users out there for a niche open cheapish low-end featurephone. 100k - probably, if it's mostly sane.
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07:57.32crashanddie_oh ffs I lost my oyster card
07:57.35crashanddie_bloody fantastic
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08:02.38SpeedEvil:/
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08:35.57MaceN8x0damnit
08:36.09MaceN8x0ran out of defying gravity episodes
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08:38.21mgedminNokia N900 on amazon: 2.1 inches thick :-)
08:39.23MaceN8x0they are selling them on amazon?
08:40.23mgedmina preorder page just appeared
08:40.51mgedminhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002OB49SW
08:41.24mgedmin"Currently, item can be shipped only within the U.S." :(
08:42.19Corsacmgedmin: expansys
08:42.53SpeedEvil2.1" - that'll be the 47 day battery life version.
08:43.25bilboed-pilooks like someone mixed up inches and cms
08:44.09mgedminperhaps that's the dimensions of the whole box
08:44.38mgedminexpansys is funny: "If you are a Lithuanian customer - please take a look at our Lithuanian website - www.expansys.lt"
08:44.58mgedminwww.expansys.lt looks like a typical-domain-squatter fake search page
08:46.06mgedminis amazed to find Lithuania in the country dropdown for the billing/delivery address
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08:46.54mgedmin"Expected release date 19 Oct 09" :(
08:47.35Corsacon expansys?
08:47.47Corsaccouldn't find a release date
08:48.47MaceN8x0preorder
08:49.04MaceN8x0i learned my lesson with the touchbook i am still waiting on
08:49.11Corsacme too :p
08:49.23MaceN8x0never going to preorder again
08:49.30Corsacbut you can't really compare a startup like AI with its first product and Nokia, imho
08:49.41MaceN8x0i suppose
08:49.46MaceN8x0still tho
08:50.09MaceN8x0preordering has been put on my "no" list
08:50.22CorsacI can understand that :)
08:50.32MaceN8x0thanks to ai ;*
08:50.35MaceN8x0;)
08:50.42Corsacespecially since the price may drop or there might be better offerings on various sites
08:50.51MaceN8x0that also
08:51.11Corsacatm nokia.fr sells it at 650e while expansys is at 615e
08:51.32MaceN8x0how much  in $?
08:51.53Corsacnokia usa is at $650
08:52.01MaceN8x0seeing as the US is too arrogant to jump in on a world currency
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08:52.08Corsac650 Euros = 950.88500 U.S. dollars
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08:52.23MaceN8x0that is odd
08:52.35MaceN8x0why 950 there and $650 here?
08:53.15Corsacbecause it's excluding tax, and because nokia does a 1to1 match apparently
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08:53.18Corsacsomething like that
08:53.25Corsacthough it's cheaper elsewhere in .eu
08:53.34MaceN8x01to1 match on currency?
08:53.37MaceN8x0wtf?
08:53.59suihkulokkiit is not only nokia, it is all electronics
08:54.00MaceN8x0so we get a discount because our currency is doing worse than the euro?
08:54.32Corsacit's worth asking an us guy to buy it for me :)
08:54.45MaceN8x0yeah
08:54.54Corsacthough that means wireless channel 12 and 13 won't be available
08:55.04MaceN8x0pfft
08:55.14MaceN8x02 more cluttered channels
08:55.18suihkulokkithe price difference comes down to different taxes and other eu shit (like the e-waste directive) and to the fact that as fragmented market eu customers are willing to pay more
08:55.19MaceN8x0theyre all the same
08:55.48CorsacMaceN8x0: you don't get it
08:56.07MaceN8x0?
08:56.11Corsacwhen you don't control the network infrastructure, you might want to be able to connect to the 12/13 chans :)
08:56.20CorsacI had the problem with my us-thinkpad the other day
08:56.27MaceN8x0i suppose
08:56.29Corsacthe only available wireless network was on channel 12
08:56.36MaceN8x0heh
08:56.41CorsacI could see and connect with my n810 but not with the thinkpad
08:57.02MaceN8x0us devices have fcc restrictions?
08:57.07Corsacyep
08:57.10till-use an usb-wifi-dongle :)
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08:57.11MaceN8x0lame
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08:57.56MaceN8x0honestly
08:58.04MaceN8x0is there some  fcc guy
08:58.17MaceN8x0that goes house to house sniffing freqs?
08:58.21Corsachttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels#2.4.C2.A0GHz_.28802.11b.2Fg.2Fn.29
08:58.22MaceN8x0:)
08:58.25till-german amazon: 558,98 euro :)
08:58.37Corsactill-: wifi dongles just suck :)
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08:58.48CorsacMaceN8x0: they don't have to sniff freqs
08:58.58till-i know, mine broke when the notebook fall off my bed
08:59.01Corsacthey just have to prevent anyone selling not compliant devices
08:59.10MaceN8x0the lasers from space track you?
08:59.20MaceN8x0that is impossible
08:59.32MaceN8x0do you really think an inspector at customs
08:59.50MaceN8x0would stop a wifi router because of fcc freq regulations?
08:59.53MaceN8x0:)
08:59.54Corsacyes
08:59.56Corsacdefinitely
09:00.02MaceN8x0seriously?
09:00.05MaceN8x0no way
09:00.24MaceN8x0so....
09:00.28Corsacthey wont inspect each and every box
09:00.30Corsacbut random control
09:00.33MaceN8x0if someone had a eu laptop
09:00.42MaceN8x0running adhoc on chan 12...
09:00.46MaceN8x0;)
09:00.47Corsacha but personal stuff is not a problem
09:00.51mgedminaren't most wifi frequency restrictions done in firmware/software?
09:00.51MaceN8x0take his laptop?
09:01.01Corsacmgedmin: firmware on mine
09:01.17CorsacMaceN8x0: you won't have problem using an eu access point and an eu laptop I think
09:01.22Corsacnobody will bother you
09:01.30Corsacexcept you piss off someone on that freq
09:01.38MaceN8x0like norad?
09:01.40MaceN8x0haha
09:01.42Corsaclike, if it's a military freq :p
09:02.07MaceN8x0explaining that a 12billion$ jet crashed because of a eu wifi router
09:02.37Corsacthat would be a good plan to invade europe
09:02.51MaceN8x0i doube a wifi router has the power to jam a 20W military radio
09:02.59MaceN8x0doubt
09:03.15MaceN8x0even the manpacks
09:03.48MaceN8x0not to mention the higher powered stuff
09:04.18MaceN8x0we had 300W uhf amps on some of our vehivles
09:04.22MaceN8x0vehicles
09:05.07MaceN8x050W amplified vhf  was also common... i think the fcc is full of shit heh
09:05.44MaceN8x0nothing more than keeping freqs for bidding wars between multi-trillion dollar corperate conglomerates
09:06.28SpeedEvilA 30mW transmitter will jam a 300W transmitter - if the 30mW one is 100 times closer to the reciever
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09:09.09wazdheya everybody :)
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09:12.27Stskeepsheya wazd
09:14.25CorsacMaceN8x0: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels#ref_B
09:18.48MacerSpeedEvil: yeah i suppose
09:18.59Macerbut to get that close to a military receiver? :)
09:19.55Macernot to mention the military has a good knack for triangulation along with amazing accuracy with artilery
09:21.45MacerIn the USA, 802.11b operation in the channels 12 and 13 is not strictly forbidden by the relevant regulatory authority, the FCC.
09:21.48Macerah
09:22.07Macerso why not have the freqs on us routers? :)
09:22.27Maceris this like an lb vs kilo thing?
09:22.33Macerdare to be different? :)
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09:23.06Maceranyways. going to take a shower. i bought new razors and wow it is amazing the difference you feel when you've been using the same one for about a year because you were too lazy to go through the 30 steps at walgreens to get one
09:23.35Stskeepsyes, it is :P
09:23.37Macerwhat a pain thives have put upon the world.. where razors are locked behind the counter and you have to call customer service and wait for someone to authorize the sale of a pack of friggin razors
09:24.05MacerStskeeps: it was like using a crafted katana haha
09:24.23Maceri think the hair fell off before the razor even touched it because of the way it cut through the air
09:25.10Macerwow. i have never seen a summer so mild as this year
09:25.22Macerit was like living in california this summer.. temps above 80 were rare
09:26.02Macerbye
09:26.56CorsacI don't shave
09:27.06Corsacsimpler
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09:27.41alteregoI go on holiday for a couple of weeks and the whole world turns inside out :)
09:29.02johnxwell, you must be the center of the universe then :)
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09:32.32gomiam.
09:34.21alteregoI'm at the centre of my universe :)
09:34.44*** join/#maemo b0unc3 (n=b0unc3@dynamic-adsl-94-37-27-214.clienti.tiscali.it)
09:34.47gomiamwhich is interesting considering you are "alterego" :P
09:35.50johnxI think he usurped the original ego :)
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09:35.59alteregoI sold it for magical beans
09:36.08glass_were they any good?
09:36.18glass_big bangs?
09:36.35alteregoThe beans? No, they were just normal kidney beans, still waiting for paypal to resolve my dispute >_<
09:37.19gomiamand wait you will, since the dispute is with your alter-alter ego :)
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09:54.10zaheermafter installing  maemo 5 sdk 2, it says i need to run script af-sb-init.sh start
09:54.27zaheermbut the script is not in my home directory
09:54.41zaheermwhen inside the scratchbox
09:55.51zaheermall i see are rootstrap tgz files there
09:56.07adeusit's in your PATH
09:56.23adeusso if you installed it correclty, just write that command
09:56.49zaheermi get command not found, how can i debug this?
09:57.29alteregoHave you installed the meta package maemo-sdk-dev or maemo-sdk-runtime?
09:58.00zaheermthe only package i installed was nokia-binaries
09:58.10alteregoE: apt-get update && fakeroot apt-get install maemo-sdk-dev
09:58.34zaheermit says it is already the newest version
09:58.36alteregoWell, you need to install at a minimum, the runtime to test applications and the dev image to buil;d them :)
09:58.48alteregoInteresting.
09:59.12alteregoIt would be so much easier if every one used the VM images ^.^
09:59.53zaheerm:)
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10:00.41alteregoWell, generic advice, delete the target and try again :)
10:00.42adeusosso-af-sb-startup provides it
10:00.49zaheermi just followed instructions on maemo.org
10:00.50adeusdunno what's the bundle
10:01.01Khertan_teleworkouch i finally got the mail from jaffa about sponsorship
10:01.06Khertan_telework5 day of delay
10:01.10Khertan_teleworkfunny
10:01.38zaheermadeus, ok so that package is not installed
10:02.01alteregoI really want to go to the summit :(
10:02.03zaheermand installing it gives me depends: holidon-initscrip[ts but it is not going to be installed
10:02.36Khertan_teleworkhum ... a nit that reboot many times when displaying the dark screen "battery is charging ..." probably mean that the problem isn't software :(
10:03.05alteregoWhat charger are you using?
10:03.07zaheermand hildon-initscripts can't be installed because theme-config  has no installation candidate
10:03.52alteregoYou can cold charge a tablet with a USB charger,
10:03.58alterego~can't.
10:03.59infobotYes I can!
10:04.43alteregozaheerm, have you installed the rootstrap properly?
10:04.58johnxinfobot, you can't cold charge a tablet with a USB charger
10:04.59zaheermalterego, i have followed the instructions on the web
10:05.12Khertan_teleworkalterego: the nokia one
10:05.27alteregoKhertan_telework: have you been having issues with battery life as of late?
10:05.36johnxKhertan_telework, not necessarily
10:05.45johnxthat screen is actually displayed by X11
10:06.02johnxso anything that would normally be causing a reboot loop, could be applying in that situation
10:06.14Khertan_teleworkalterego: of course as it s reboot every times it doesn't charge
10:06.20Khertan_teleworkso battery life is short
10:06.30alteregoI meant before this problem :)
10:06.33Khertan_teleworkbut what is strange is that it doesn't occur everytime
10:06.39Khertan_teleworkalterego: before no prob
10:06.46alteregoThat is strange :) Well, kind of strange
10:07.05alteregoMaybe the charger has broken cable.
10:07.26Khertan_teleworkother things ... after flashing it, i didn't see the problem for two days
10:07.30Khertan_teleworkthen it come back
10:07.39Khertan_teleworkbut ... hum ... i ve two charger ...
10:07.43johnxwhat have you installed so far?
10:07.44Khertan_teleworkmaybe that ...
10:07.47Khertan_teleworkwill try
10:08.00Khertan_teleworkjohnx : pygtkeditor and python2.5
10:08.01Khertan_telework:)
10:08.04Khertan_teleworkonly that
10:08.22Khertan_teleworkand do the same things under mer
10:08.40Khertan_teleworkand while the nit is shutdown and charging
10:08.48alteregozaheerm: did you install it "manually" or did you use the install scripts?
10:08.51Khertan_telework(you know the false shutdown mode)
10:09.00zaheermalterego, install scripts
10:09.12alteregoHrm
10:09.25alteregoWell, I'd say try again :)
10:09.58alteregoI usually do a manual installation, but then I'm pretty fickle.
10:10.38alteregoI don't like the target names the script uses, so I wrote my own.
10:11.03Khertan_teleworkis trying on other nokia charger
10:11.15alteregoI _really_ want to go to the summit, but I can't, it's a pain in the ass.
10:11.37alteregoI bet Murphy will be there and everyone will be handed free N900's and I'll miss out on it. ^.^
10:11.43johnxI did actually break a charger once, then followed it up by buying a charger that broke a week later
10:12.06Khertan_teleworki try the first charger on my phone
10:12.24alteregoNokia chargers are not exactly robust, I have several, but I leave them places so I don't move them, one in the office, one at home and one in the bag for emergencies/travel.
10:12.29Khertan_teleworkthe nit doesn't seems to reboot anymore
10:12.31alteregoI also have the USB charger.
10:12.54kirmaalterego: chinese cheap clones are even less robust ;)
10:13.09Khertan_teleworkand my phone didn't seems to reboot with the first charger
10:13.25Khertan_teleworkarg ... i talk too fast
10:13.28alteregoI think I might order my N900 from the US
10:13.28Khertan_teleworknit just reboot
10:13.29zaheermalterego, ok so how do i remove current installation?
10:13.33alteregoThe exchange rate is good.
10:13.35Khertan_teleworkin shutdown charging mode
10:13.36Khertan_telework:(
10:13.53Khertan_teleworkso this seems to be the battery
10:13.54Khertan_teleworkgrr
10:14.15alteregozaheerm, I think you can just run the scripts again, outside of scratchbox. Otherwise, delete everything under /scratchbox/users/<USERNAME>/targets (don't quote me on that path) ;)
10:14.30alteregoKhertan_telework: do you have a multimeter?
10:14.41Khertan_teleworkyep
10:14.56alteregoWhat V is the battery measuring at?
10:15.00Khertan_teleworkgood idea ... 3.7 Right ?
10:15.22alteregoYeah
10:15.32alteregoIt'll be significantly lower if it's screwed.
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10:23.32Khertan_teleworkhum ... just take a me
10:23.32Khertan_teleworkmesure
10:23.38Khertan_teleworkalterego: there seems to be a serious problem
10:23.49Khertan_teleworkbattery output is 3.9V
10:24.27johnxit's topped up then I think
10:24.34Khertan_teleworkand now 4.0V
10:24.38johnxunloaded, fully charged?
10:25.02Khertan_teleworkuhm ... and it s look larger than before
10:25.46johnxtip: don't cold it tightly or leave it on something flammable
10:25.59alteregoOh, it might be exploding.
10:26.08alteregoI'd dispose of it.
10:26.13alteregoAnd check for shorts.
10:26.24alteregoBut I'm not too up on Li-Ion tech.
10:26.34alteregoMake a note of the serial number/s
10:26.42johnxs/cold/hold of course ...
10:26.45Khertan_teleworkjohnx: extracted from the nit
10:26.48alteregoI think Nokia have a site that tells you if a batch is possibly faulty
10:26.50Khertan_teleworkjohnx: not fully charged
10:26.55Khertan_teleworkand the back seems Domed
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10:27.05alteregoThat, definitely isn't good.
10:27.09Khertan_teleworkcambered
10:27.15alteregoIs it hot?
10:27.15Khertan_teleworkyep thanks
10:27.24Khertan_teleworkno the battery is cold
10:27.56Khertan_teleworkthanks alterego to give me the idea to use a multimeter ... so i ve extracted the battery
10:27.57alteregoWell, like I said, I'm not really qualified to tell you what to do :P
10:28.13alteregoI'd ask someone that is :)
10:28.23Khertan_teleworkfor me it s clear ... i ll not use it anymore
10:28.32johnxmetal bucket
10:28.36Khertan_teleworkbut it s just seems domed a little
10:28.53Khertan_teleworkand haven't an other to compare
10:28.54alteregoThis is an N810 right
10:28.59Khertan_teleworkright
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10:29.08Khertan_teleworkBP-4L
10:29.20alteregoWhich side is domed? The side with the hologram or the other side?
10:30.08Khertan_teleworkthe both
10:30.17lbtthe N900 has an IR transmitter ... does it have a rcvr?
10:30.20alteregoYeah, definitely something wrong there. Mine is completely flat.
10:30.27Khertan_telework(made in china)
10:30.32alteregolbt: should be an IrDA port, so yes.
10:30.41alteregoHeh
10:30.44lbtah...
10:30.50Khertan_teleworknokia 's batteries are made in china ?
10:30.51johnxlbt, I think not
10:31.03SpeedEvilKhertan_telework: IMO - put it somewhere where if it catches fire it won't cause damage
10:31.05X-FadeKhertan_telework: hi..
10:31.07Khertan_teleworkalterego: Mine is completely flat. <<< thanks
10:31.15Khertan_teleworkSpeedEvil: yep ...
10:31.20X-FadeKhertan_telework: you made a typo in pygtkeditor depends :)
10:31.25Khertan_teleworkhi X-Fade
10:31.26SpeedEvilhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OsBc8RqSKU
10:31.29johnxdidn't see anything about receiving...or the term IRDA so I kind of assume it's not there
10:31.33SpeedEvilThis is of course mechanical damage
10:31.52X-FadeKhertan_telework: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/pygtkeditor/2.4.2-1/
10:31.52alteregojohnx: Oh I thought I saw that in the kernel config. Sorry, I'm probably wrong ;)
10:32.01lbthmm, would be interesting...
10:32.03johnxalterego, nope, you'd be right :)
10:32.07johnxdidn't look at the kernel
10:32.12johnxawesome!
10:32.16alterego:)
10:32.19johnxI do love the IR
10:32.31johnxmeans we can set it by the TV and use a nice remote with it
10:32.32lbtwhat hardware spec - can you tell
10:32.32X-FadeKhertan_telework: pythonh? :)
10:32.34Khertan_teleworklol thanks x-fade
10:32.43alteregoI dunno, I'm not really interested in the IR, unless I can use it with my SeXBox
10:32.44johnxor let it track with IR lights like a wiimote :>
10:32.59lbtcan't track
10:33.03lbtthat needs a camers
10:33.07Khertan_teleworkbut can't fix it right now ... source is in internal memory ... and has you can read it some line before ... my nit battery is dying
10:33.15alteregoWe have two cameras! :)
10:33.16Khertan_teleworkSpeedEvil: ouch !
10:33.20zerojaywjt: Don't know if you saw, but telepathy-butterfly adds audio/video calling for MSN. Hmmmm.... ;)
10:33.22johnxlbt, ah, right. wasn't thinking clearly
10:33.33SpeedEvilKhertan_telework: yeah - it shows how much energy is in them
10:33.35wjtzerojay: are you thinking what i'm thinking? :)
10:33.35X-FadeKhertan_telework: as long as you know that there is a problem ;)
10:33.45lbtalterego: can't track IR using the irDA... that needs a camera
10:33.47Khertan_teleworkyep thanks
10:34.00alteregolbt, I know, and the N900 has two cameras :P
10:34.13alteregoAnyhow, you can pair a wiimote with the N900 and use that.
10:34.38zerojaywjt: We're going to go and take over the world tonight, Pinky?
10:34.39johnxalterego, wiimote needs two IR sources, so looks like two n900s :)
10:34.52johnxbut N900s tracking *each other* is kind of cool
10:34.57johnxlaser tag anyone? :D
10:35.13*** join/#maemo frade (n=ivan@192.100.124.219)
10:35.40alteregoA Wiimote and a sensor bar.
10:36.03alteregoIt's only interfacing with the N900, which could be plugged into your TV like a console and used to play some game.
10:36.06Khertan_teleworki didn't understand how a battery can output 4V when she is constructed to output 3.7V
10:36.13SpeedEvilKhertan_telework: it's not
10:36.20johnxyup, and I have this really nice battery powered "sensor" bar
10:36.25SpeedEvilKhertan_telework: the operating range of lithium-ion is from 3-4.2V
10:36.31X-FadeKhertan_telework: 3.7v is nominal.
10:36.32johnxactually works better than nintendo's
10:36.37johnxprobably uses brighter LEDs
10:36.40alteregoCool
10:36.42X-FadeKhertan_telework: 4.2v when full.
10:36.48SpeedEvilMaybe a little under 3 in some circumstances
10:37.06johnxbut if you had two N900s you *could* use their IR LEDs to act as a "sensor" "bar"
10:37.25Khertan_teleworkhum ... ok
10:37.36X-FadeSpeedEvil: Well, I don't think Nokia would allow a device to go under 3.6v or something like that.
10:37.52alteregoI ca'm finding it hard to justify getting one N900, let alone two.
10:38.29alteregoI will have an N900, I will buy it, but it's hard pursuading myself to spend 500 pounds on another gadget :/
10:38.42alteregoEven if it is the most amazing peice of kit around.
10:38.51johnxyeah
10:38.58johnxit'll be a while after launch til I get mine
10:39.10ShadowJKspent 400 on new phone a couple of months ago :(
10:39.13alteregoI love my N96+N810
10:39.21SpeedEvilX-Fade: 3.6 has about 15% of the energy left till it reaches the normal threshold of 3V or so
10:39.38alteregoBut there are things that the N810 doesn't do that are stopping my from writing the applications I want to write, the N900 has these facilities.
10:39.46zerojayI'm very looking forward to dumping my N95 + N810 for an N900.
10:40.06johnxI think my n800 will still find plenty of purpose
10:40.18johnxmaybe for in car audio/navigation
10:40.31alteregoI gave my N800 to my brother when I got the N810
10:40.37alteregoHe loves it, like I love my N810.
10:40.56alteregozerojay, I am also, it's the ultimate in convergence device for me ;)
10:41.44X-FadeSpeedEvil: yes, but the drop off is quite steep and with temperature changes you risk not being able to boot anymore to start the charge.
10:41.49ShadowJKspeedevil: NITs shutdown around 3.5 actually :)
10:42.18alteregoIs there any reason I shouldn't order an N900 fromn the states?
10:42.28alteregoRather than getting one from the UK?
10:42.52zaheermwarranty?
10:42.53johnxalterego, I don't know what they'll do in terms of WLAN channels
10:42.54SpeedEvilShadowJK: yeah - the amount of time you have after 3.6 goes down _sharply_ with slightly older batteries.
10:43.06SpeedEvilShadowJK: so shutting off earlier makes some sense.
10:43.12alteregoHrm
10:43.18alteregosighs
10:43.22johnxand I assume you're ok with US qwerty?
10:43.26zaheermalso getting one from lhr t5 would work out cheaper than getting one from usa, right?
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10:43.27ShadowJKif you're crazy you can probably run down to 2.5V (but that's too low for n8x0, no boost converters except for usb otg)
10:43.33alteregoIt's 140 pounds more though,
10:43.50Khertan_teleworkjohnx i ll got mine only if i can get it by a developper program at a lower price
10:43.54zaheermis it that much more?
10:44.09alteregoIt is at the current exchange rate.
10:44.10SpeedEvilShadowJK: after 3 you have _very_ little energy though - 1% - maybe less
10:44.13johnxKhertan_telework, might be the same for me :/
10:44.25johnxif I can't get it with a dev program rebate it'll be quite a while ...
10:44.34Khertan_teleworkor maybe one year after if price drop down
10:44.56crashanddieoh come on, don't tell me you can't afford to spend 500 quid on a phone...
10:45.04Khertan_teleworkbut i can't really put more than 200 Euros in a gadget
10:45.21Khertan_teleworkcrashanddie: i can't
10:45.32crashanddiejust eat pasta for a month
10:45.33zaheermalso did anyone figure out whether n900 has usb otg like n810?
10:45.37crashanddiedon't buy clothes
10:45.40crashanddiework more
10:45.44crashanddieshow your dedication
10:45.44johnxcrashanddie, I can't afford to spend 500 quid on a non-necessary item right now, and I do eat an awful lot of pasta
10:45.57johnxcrashanddie, so you're picking it up at launch?
10:45.57crashanddiejohnx: out of a job?
10:46.08crashanddiejohnx: trying to even before that ;)
10:46.10johnxnah, just not getting paid all that much
10:46.13alteregozaheerm: it does, there's a whole thread on maemo talk.
10:46.15alteregoAbout the hardware.
10:46.23Khertan_teleworkcrashanddie: working more didn't give you more money
10:46.28Khertan_teleworkjust working more
10:46.29Khertan_telework:)
10:46.30johnxcrashanddie, and I have my wife and mine medical stuff to cover
10:46.33Khertan_teleworki live in france :)
10:46.41crashanddieKhertan_telework: in the correct industry, working more does give you more $$$ ;)
10:46.45ShadowJKspeedevil: my old n800 battery goes from 3.8V idle to 3.6V streaming music ;)
10:46.50alterego500 pounds is a lot of money, I don't care who you are.
10:47.10alteregoThat's a months living expenses for me.
10:47.21alteregoMore than infact.
10:47.24ShadowJKwaiting until it's 3.6 idle and then launching the media player doesn't even give you low battery warning :)
10:47.26Khertan_teleworki can bought it if i want but it s clearly not my priority ... and clearly not the one of my wife
10:47.49Khertan_teleworkwhat 's wife wants, god wants !
10:47.51alteregoKhertan_telework: exactly, you're probably in the same mindset as I am about it ;)
10:48.12alteregoMy gf is always complaining about me and my gadgets ^.^
10:48.24johnxcrashanddie, heh, ironically, my wife would be fine with me getting it, but she's kind of an optimist when it comes to our budget ...
10:48.32alteregoOTOH, an N900 would replace two of my gadgets, so it should be a win ;)
10:48.35crashanddieheh
10:48.43crashanddieliving alone -- much more bang for the bukc
10:48.45crashanddiebuck
10:48.55Khertan_teleworki m currently planning to make a bathroom at the upstair
10:49.00Khertan_teleworkso ... it s a lot of money
10:49.05johnxand yet not as much bang for the ... nevermind :)
10:49.06alteregocrashanddie: sure, but you pay twice as much bills+rent :P
10:49.13alteregoHah
10:49.24Khertan_teleworkcrashanddie: yeah ... i understand now ... you are alone ... this explain everythings ...
10:49.25crashanddiealterego: I really don't care about that...
10:49.42crashanddiealterego: I can afford it, you guys are not going to give me grief for that ;)
10:49.52SpeedEvilcrashanddie: see http://melbourne.gumtree.com.au/c-Unit-House-Real-Estate-flat-share-house-share-looking-for-some1-to-share-my-bed-2-get-cheaper-rent-and-save-W0QQAdIdZ140320307
10:50.13crashanddieSpeedEvil: lol
10:50.22crashanddieI said I lived alone, not that I *was* alone
10:50.29crashanddiesmall difference in words, huge difference in actions
10:51.02crashanddieKhertan_telework: t'as quel age deja/
10:51.03crashanddie?
10:51.10alteregoPahahah
10:51.33zaheermalterego, after adding sales tax for california, device costs 712.28 usd works out about 432 gbp
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10:51.57ShadowJKwhat's the price in UK?
10:51.58alteregoI've been using the Tritanium theme on my N810 the past couple of days, I like the charging indicator.
10:52.03crashanddieShadowJK: £499
10:52.11alteregoSorry Khertan_telework
10:52.30crashanddiezaheerm: yeah, but you'll have to pay import tax probably
10:52.33mojocafehi everyone. i just downloaded the vmware with the maemo sdk inside - does anyone of you can tell me where a simple "hello world" tutorial is ? for maemo4 please not the 5th version
10:52.40ShadowJKso add 15% VAT to 432?
10:52.49crashanddieis it only 15%?
10:52.53zaheermcrashanddie, yah just thought i'd let alterego that its prob better to buy from here
10:53.07alteregoYeah, I will, because I'm like that :P
10:53.20crashanddieShadowJK: works up around £495 off the top of my head
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10:53.29crashanddieso the ticket to the US really kinda shoots the idea down :P
10:53.30johnxmojocafe, maemo 4 is called diablo. if you search with "maemo diablo hello world" you should get some results
10:53.40Khertan_teleworkcrashanddie: 27 :)
10:53.47crashanddiek
10:53.47alteregoIt's a bit annoying though, because we've heard absolutely nothing about any device programme, so what if we all rush out and buy one, then they announce it.
10:53.52zaheermi fly thru lhr t5 on 17/10, hopefully it is out by then so i can buy from airport nokia store
10:53.59mojocafejohnx: thanks.
10:54.03crashanddiealterego: my expectation is there won't be one
10:54.05ShadowJKiirc 15% when they lowered it to EU minimum, might have gone up since
10:54.18zaheermthere is a device program qgil said on ml
10:54.21mojocafelol... i just search for "diablo hell world"
10:54.23mojocafe:D
10:54.35alteregocrashanddie: the general consensus was supposed to be, that stage 4/5 have the final dev programme.
10:54.56crashanddiethat's the general consensus, I gave my opinion
10:54.57johnxalterego, then they can hand out devices to devs who don't have the money, and they win :)
10:54.58zerojayzaheerm: Should be announced around Maemo Summit.
10:55.03alteregoBut this close to the release, what do they expect us devs to do?
10:55.06crashanddiejohnx: already been doing that
10:55.16ShadowJKif you order from US via usps there's a risk you'll have to pay VAT in uk. if they ship with ups,dhl,fedex, youll almost certainly need to pay vat
10:55.33alteregoThere are going to be a lot of users having these devices that wont get commmunity support, because none of the community own one :)
10:55.36johnxcrashanddie, right, but if they let the early adopters spend money first, then offer a dev program for the holdouts
10:55.40johnxthey make their money go farther
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10:56.03zaheermwonder if upstream library devs would qualify as well as app writers
10:56.41alteregozaheerm: package maintainers are just as important as app developers,
10:56.59alteregoIMO ;)
10:57.24SpeedEvilShadowJK: And a fee on top for DHL/fedex/... to kindly pay this fee for you
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10:57.37ShadowJKyeah :)
10:57.40mojocafei am on this page - http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_4-0_tutorial/ -.... where do i put the code in??? i am a totall noob with *nix/hildon scripting....
10:57.45crashanddiejohnx: maybe
10:57.55crashanddiejohnx: however it would be pretty unfair to the early adopters
10:57.57alteregoGrr, I'm so sad I can't go to the summit.
10:58.02johnxjust throwing out the pessimist's opinion
10:58.06alteregosulks.
10:58.16johnxalterego, might be joining you in non-summitness
10:58.17crashanddiejohnx: the devs who need one already got one, on a lending basis, but still
10:58.31ShadowJKI think nokia will have problems producing enough devices to meet demand for the next few months
10:58.45SpeedEvilI hope so.
10:58.57ShadowJKyou hope so?
10:59.00SpeedEvilYes.
10:59.25SpeedEvilIt'd mean that they've underestimated the market, and there is a potential for price cuts as volume kicks in more.
10:59.36alteregoYeah
10:59.37SpeedEvila greater potential
10:59.49alteregoThough when have Nokia ever adjusted their prices from demand :P
11:00.23ShadowJKalterego: when nobody was excited about n97, they cut :P
11:00.27SpeedEvilIf they've budgeted for making 10K - if they turn up with orders for 100K - they can probably tweak
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11:01.38Khertan_teleworkouch the price of the battery BP-4L 45 Euros plus 7.5Euro for delivery
11:02.19ShadowJKthey're 25-ish from the right places (original, too)
11:02.24alteregoHeh, Dell want me to pay 100 GBP for a replacement abttery for my XPS
11:03.06SpeedEvilAt least secondary production of laptop batteries seems to have kicked in somewhat.
11:03.24crashanddieNokia has a habit of underestimating the demand and traction of their n-series products
11:03.26SpeedEvilA new battery for my older thinkpad is maybe half retail
11:03.27alteregoI wouldn't mind, but the batter is deffective.
11:03.37alteregoBut my laptop is out of warrenty.
11:03.44crashanddiethey're surprised every single time by the demand
11:04.09zerojayNot like this though.
11:04.24Khertan_teleworkhum ... where is the right place ?
11:04.48mojocafecan anyone help me how to make first steps in vmware to develop maemo apps ?
11:04.53crashanddieKhertan_telework: just get the Nokia one
11:05.47crashanddieKhertan_telework: i bought one from ebay for a few quid, got it, and it holds the charge for maybe 2 or 3 hours. Got a new one from Nokia, for 25 quid or something, and works fine (10 hours of use), it failed after a few months, and got it replaced for free
11:06.05ShadowJKthey're about half price without retail packaging :)
11:06.28Khertan_teleworkfor 25 quid or something ;;;; here it s 45
11:06.41Khertan_teleworkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeWq6rWzChw
11:06.58*** join/#maemo baraujo (n=Bruno@189.2.128.130)
11:07.03crashanddiebuying stuff from youtube?
11:11.24*** join/#maemo herzi (n=herzi@dialbs-088-079-091-234.static.arcor-ip.net)
11:11.40zaheermalterego, weird 2nd time round, it worked :)
11:12.47zaheermouch or so i thought
11:12.57zaheermseems it exists for FREMANTLE_ARMEL
11:13.03zaheermbut not for FREMANTLE_X86
11:14.18zaheermaah shit i am stupid
11:14.41wazdso
11:14.57wazdAny desperados to participate in Push with me? :D
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11:16.17Stskeepswhat are you planning? :P
11:16.20alteregowazd: details?
11:16.35wazdI have a really nice idea :)
11:16.56SpeedEvildoes it involve cheese?
11:17.04alteregowazd: I'd like to :)
11:17.09RichiH_aussieis on the road so forgive me for not googling extensively and simply asking (time is spare-ish): is there any GPS tracking application for the n810? i.e. i want to log places/routes
11:17.10wazdno gadgets from 80's involved :D
11:17.13RichiH_aussiethanks :)
11:17.15alteregoHahah
11:17.27StskeepsRichiH_aussie: maemo mapper
11:17.41RichiH_aussiethansk!
11:18.06wazdand btw it would be a good opportunity to show liqbase as something realy useful at last :D
11:18.10RichiH_aussiealso, can i download maps for the n810 on a normal computer & then copy them via USB?
11:18.20RichiH_aussiedownloading does not work
11:18.24wazdalong with GSoC project :)
11:18.30alteregoNice
11:18.32StskeepsRichiH_aussie: possibly, search talk.maemo.org for that
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11:18.37RichiH_aussiekk
11:18.46wazdalterego: do you have any coding skills? :)
11:18.54lcukliqbase has always been useful you cheeky sob :P
11:19.03StskeepsRichiH_aussie: winmapper or search for maemo mapper
11:19.06wazdlcuk: yeah, as a remote controller :D
11:19.07RichiH_aussiesecond to last question: can i download apps on a normal laptop & then copy them over via usb?
11:19.10alteregowazd: Yes, I'm a software engineer :)
11:19.15wazdlcuk: no, seriously, I need you :)
11:19.28wazdalterego: ok, great! :)
11:19.41alteregoI spend most of my time coding in C, C#, Ruby & Python
11:20.09*** join/#maemo tonikitoo (n=tonikito@189.2.128.130)
11:20.32alteregoI'm also good witGNU/Linux and love Debian ;)
11:21.07wazdjoin #pushn900 to discuss the idea, maybe it's stupid :)
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12:04.52lcukwazd whats your twitter
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12:07.11wazdlcuk: well, andrewzhilin but I'm not gonna use I think :)
12:07.31lcuknot gonna use what?
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12:09.25lcukahhh i see
12:09.34lcuknot a twitterer then - you should link irc with it
12:09.40lcukand just start blogging your ideas
12:10.13RST38hheya, lcuk, wazd
12:10.22lcukhiya RST38h !
12:11.02AndrewFBlakKhertan_telework, you around?
12:11.05lcukRST38h, i saw my calendar and graffiti liqflow on a big display finally.  i know its gonna work (there might even be video out soon showing it :D)
12:11.20lcuktho somehow a 20foot calendar was a bit scary!
12:11.21Khertan_teleworkAndrewFBlak: yes i m here
12:11.51AndrewFBlakI'm trying to build my deb on tablet using py2deb but its not pulling all the files from my src folder and putting them in the tar file
12:12.06Khertan_teleworkAndrewFBlak: i didn't receive your email ... but this morning i got the one from jaffa about sponsorship which was sent 5 days ago
12:12.18Khertan_teleworkbut its not pulling all the files from my src folder and putting them in the tar file < normal
12:12.34lcuklol Khertan_telework but but but but but
12:12.42RST38hlcuk: On TV you mean?
12:12.45Khertan_teleworkit s depends on your py "make" file
12:13.04lcukRST38h, no, on projector in a couple of presentations
12:13.09RST38hAh
12:13.13AndrewFBlakso I got something wrong in my make file then
12:13.18Khertan_teleworklcuk: my nit battery is doing strange things ... and push the cover this morning :)
12:13.22RST38hwonders how lcuk will draw on a projected display =)
12:13.28lcukliqflow small and big http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyMRTNPCVQM    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz0
12:13.36Khertan_teleworki need to change it ...
12:13.38lcukthe calendar was that big
12:13.59RST38hlcuk: Is it the same flow going through all three tablets???
12:14.04lcukRST38h, there was a laser spraycan at odz actually that was cool
12:14.17Khertan_teleworkarg the n810 can't work only on charger without any battery ?
12:14.18lcukthe small one is yeah
12:14.20lcukthe big one isnt
12:14.23RST38hcooool
12:14.38RST38hSo, they are talking to each other over the network to maintain the same flow?
12:14.39wazdRST38h: heya
12:14.49lcuknot yet
12:15.07vesaumm, is the real n900 device 65k color screen? =O
12:15.07lcukand there is no real way to get accurate positioning yet
12:15.10lcuki have an idea involving hundreds of tablets
12:15.17lcukbut only if i know where people are sat
12:15.22lcukis thinking of using seating plan
12:15.31lcukand having tablet users enter the seat # into app
12:15.37RST38hyou will never get this precise positioning, so it may make sense to just fix positions
12:15.39lcukand then taking picutre from above
12:15.47lcukas all tablets are showing messages  and flowing stuff
12:16.10lcukthe gas fabriteque thing at the summit would be PERFECT for it too
12:16.36Khertan_teleworkAndrewFBlak: http://wiki.maemo.org/Py2deb <<< look at the   #Thanks to DareTheHair from talk.maemo.org for this snippet that recursively builds the file list
12:16.52lcukits a big round room with lots of height
12:16.56lcukjust need a vid cam from above
12:17.14lcuk"we are maemo" scrolling 80s style (H)
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12:17.54AndrewFBlakKhertan_telework, is there any parts I need to change to that section
12:18.17vesathere is no official specs about the bit-depth of the n900 screen?
12:18.22RST38hgot the DHL missed shipment delivery slip
12:18.31timeless_mbpvesa: why does it matter?
12:18.46timeless_mbpwhat if we can only render 62197 colors? :)
12:18.52lcukvesa, i know from experience it is technically capable of displaying full color 16.7m colors, BUT that is not to say the software is sending that bitdepth
12:18.53vesawell, if one makes graphics for applications it'd be nice to know
12:18.55RST38hvesa: Apparently 65536
12:18.56lcukand i dont know which its using
12:19.03RST38hvesa: Or my stuff would not work on them
12:19.05vesaatleast the protos need dithering
12:19.19lcukvesa, yuv is not dithered and fullcolor
12:19.27AndrewFBlakthink I found the problem
12:20.00RST38hAndrew: BTW, could you fix the Minimalist theme so that it always goes to the first unread message in a thread?
12:20.27vesaok. thanks for the replies.
12:20.27RST38hAndrew: Otherwise 100kB+ needed to load a t.m.o page becomes 200kB+
12:21.14AndrewFBlakRST38h, it should go to first unread of you click number
12:22.00RST38hAndrew: Could you do the same for the thread topic?
12:22.19RST38hAndrew: Mainly asking because the other themes do that, and I have also seen other people complain
12:23.46AndrewFBlakI'll check with Reggie when I set it up he wanted topic to go ot first post
12:23.50*** join/#maemo uzzed (n=alexandr@201.22.34.215.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br)
12:24.01RST38hmissed package by 20 minutes yesterday. NOTFAIR
12:24.16RST38hAndrew: please do
12:24.56AndrewFBlakalso just checked other themes still go to first post for topi
12:24.57*** part/#maemo uzzed (n=alexandr@201.22.34.215.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br)
12:25.21RST38hAndrew: wait, I think I know where discrepancy crawls in...
12:25.26Khertan_teleworkAndrewFBlak: normally no
12:26.13AndrewFBlakKhertan_telework, I think I got a probelm with the tabs in that section
12:26.54Khertan_teleworkarf ... python / tabulation / space ... still the same problem !
12:27.17Khertan_teleworkthis is why the last version of pygtkeditor include a 'Replace all tabs by space !' :)
12:27.50RST38hAndrew: It is possible that only subscribed threads do that...Hmmm
12:28.02AndrewFBlakI take it pythons doesn't like tabs lol
12:28.06RST38hAndrew: Still, going to the first unread post seems to be a logical thing to do
12:28.17AndrewFBlakRST38h, only subscribed threads go to last on topic?
12:28.26*** join/#maemo jofjdi (n=jsherman@67.72.73.34)
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12:29.45AndrewFBlakRST38h, We have been trying to keep a standard setup on all themes so if others go to first post on topic minimalist will do the same or people will who want to see first post will have to load 2 pagse all the time right now if you don't wnt to load but on page and see last post click numbers not topic
12:30.56RST38hAndrew: Yes, but if I have never read a thread, why would I have to click twice to see the first post?
12:31.26RST38hAndrew: And if I have been reading this thread, how likely it is I want to go straight to the start?
12:33.29AndrewFBlakRST38h, You don't have to click twice just click number beside topic
12:33.45*** join/#maemo wms (n=wms___@198.146.5.4)
12:33.52RST38hAndrew: But unless you tell me, how would I know I have to click the damn number: :)
12:33.57RST38hs/:/?
12:34.19AndrewFBlakKhertan_telework, I'm getting an error now telling me in line f for in files: NameError: name 'files' is not defined
12:34.36AndrewFBlakRST38h, its the same way on all other themes at t.m.o
12:35.00Khertan_teleworkpastebin your script
12:35.06Khertan_teleworki ll take a look at it
12:35.19RST38hAndrew: Could you ask Reggie if he would be willing to swap the behavior?
12:36.05AndrewFBlakKhertan_telework, http://pastebin.com/mf773524
12:36.14AndrewFBlakI'm sure its something easy always is with me lol
12:36.25AndrewFBlakRST38h, I'll ask him if he wants me to swap it
12:36.35RST38hthanks =)
12:37.43Khertan_teleworktabulation ... as is say ... use space :)
12:37.53Khertan_teleworkhttp://pastebin.com/macf30da
12:37.59Khertan_teleworkshould be better
12:38.04AndrewFBlakRST38h, just remember for atleast now click on number like on main theme
12:38.26AndrewFBlakthanks
12:38.44AndrewFBlakI think hte editor i'm using put the tabs in when I copied it
12:41.20Khertan_teleworkwhat you didn't use pygtkeditor ?
12:41.23Khertan_telework:)
12:41.56*** join/#maemo chenca (n=chenca@200.184.118.130)
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12:42.39AndrewFBlakKhertan_telework, well I'm wrting it on my windows computer at work
12:43.58AndrewFBlakseems to not be working at all now
12:44.12lcukholy flock my calendar is massive!!! even bigger than i thought when i was stood there
12:44.12lcukhttp://mynokiablog.com/2009/09/15/video-nokia-n900-presentation-with-gary-birkett-and-liqbase/
12:44.17lcukit really is visible from orbit
12:44.25*** join/#maemo Anunakin (n=user@187-25-105-151.3g.claro.net.br)
12:44.49Khertan_teleworkOneDotZero  <<< never heard ... what that ?
12:45.36RST38hlcuk: Who was generating the video, anyway?
12:45.38Khertan_teleworkGary has been using the N900 for quite a while <<< serious ?
12:45.41*** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@nemein.suvilahti.nemein.net)
12:45.42timeless_mbpyes
12:45.49lcukKhertan_telework, it was a digital art festival.  i was contacted and asked to create a remote control using the n900 which talks to huge high powered machines to display a massive 90foot display of whatever message is wanted
12:45.54timeless_mbppeople who actually needed access to hardware were given access
12:46.00RST38hEhehe, you have got the back of a postcard there!
12:46.08crashanddieKhertan_telework: c'est ce que je disais tout a l'heure
12:46.18crashanddieKhertan_telework: ceux qui ont besoin du hardware l'ont deja, et gratuitement en plus
12:46.21Khertan_teleworkcrashanddie: euh ... je t'ai pas lu
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12:47.00Khertan_teleworkcrashanddie: mouais ... no comment
12:47.00crashanddieKhertan_telework: je suis outré
12:47.38crashanddieKhertan_telework: j'ai pas dis que c'était juste, je ne fais que dire ce que j'ai vu publiquement...
12:48.12Khertan_teleworkoui oui ... je prefere juste ne pas faire de commentaire
12:49.17*** join/#maemo ArSa (n=ArSa@nc-71-0-121-232.sta.embarqhsd.net)
12:49.47RST38hAhahaha, lcuk has got tearing!!! :)
12:50.20RST38hlcuk: The tear nazis will visit your blog soon to complain about tearing! :)
12:51.46Khertan_teleworkbye ... i ll try to see the price of a bp-4l battery at a local store ...
12:51.50SpeedEvilwave
12:52.37RST38hKhertan: May it be cheap and long lived for you!
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12:53.18lcukRST38h, ill just tell em to use n8x0 then :p which part do you notice
12:53.37RST38hlcuk: Usually shows during full-screen transitions
12:53.39lcukcant see through vnc properly
12:53.56RST38hlcuk: When the screen shifts, you can see the characteristic "step".
12:54.12lcukthats probably my code more than anything :D
12:54.31RST38hlcuk: Not really, I doubt you do this ON PURPOSE :)
12:54.37lcukon the way down to london the app  was crashing every 2 minutes it was seriously unstable
12:54.44RST38hweird
12:55.17lcuki had adjusted one of the blitter functions and changed the Y  offset instead of y height - so it was writing to Y=-1...
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12:55.33RST38hEhhh
12:55.42timeless_mbpyouch
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12:56.37lcukyeah RST38h it took some heavy drinking to work out what was wrong
12:57.07lcuki had noticed at the last minute that one plane was overrendering 1 line (i said this would happen to wazd the other  day!)
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13:04.27SpeedEvilpasses lcuk a fencepost to aid his coding.
13:04.54lcukfencepost?
13:05.02*** join/#maemo The_Tall1 (n=A@129.69.220.132)
13:05.18RST38hAnyone can remind me if N900 has got a real power plug socket?
13:05.26lcukusb
13:05.28RST38hNot the silly micro USB thing?
13:05.37lcuk..
13:05.44SpeedEvilhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fencepost_error#Fencepost_error - a common term for off-by-one errro
13:05.47RST38hso, no power plug?
13:06.02lcukhahaha SpeedEvil :) thank you
13:06.06lcukno
13:06.07RST38hSpeed: Jeez, they have got words for everything =)
13:06.07lcukall usb
13:06.32lcukvanishes
13:07.19AndrewFBlaksmacks head on desk
13:08.20SpeedEvilcalls the royal society for the prevention of cruelty to desks.
13:08.37AndrewFBlakKhertan_telework, left didn't he
13:09.46*** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net)
13:10.55suihkulokkiRST38h: if you mean does it have a socket to the classic 3.5mm or the newer 2mm nokia charger hole, no it does not have it
13:10.59RST38hheya javis
13:11.07RST38hjavis: New OpenTTD is coool
13:11.35suihkulokkihowever, it comes with a microusb wall charger and a adapter for older chargers
13:11.36RST38hsuihkulokki: Can we start a petition for inclusion of the 3.5mm socket into all Nokia devices?
13:11.56*** join/#maemo radic (n=radic@ip-77-25-33-134.web.vodafone.de)
13:11.58RST38hsuihkulokki: Becase these late adventures in charging are becoming silly =)
13:12.18suihkulokkiRST38h: no, microusb charging is the new standard all phone manufacturers have agreed on
13:12.34RST38hsuihkulokki: :(
13:12.44SpeedEvilThere could have been worse standards.
13:12.55SpeedEvilBut it sucks docks
13:12.57SpeedEvilfor docks
13:13.03RST38hWell, the 2mm plug was pretty bad
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13:13.52RST38hBut having it charge over USB has got some problems as well. The same N97 for example often *refuses* to charge over USB. You plug it in and it reports a data connection being established
13:14.29mgedminwhen you plug it into a wall socket?
13:14.38SpeedEvilthat's an annoying issue yes.
13:14.51SpeedEvilCharging at high rate throgh normal USB hubs is broken
13:14.51RST38hmgedmin: apparently so
13:15.04mgedminoops ouch
13:15.21RST38hmgedmin: Got a friend with N97, he complained a lot about it
13:15.48RST38hmgedmin: Some complaints seem to do with broken firmware, others are just generic "does not work as expected" complaints
13:16.19RST38hNokia Maps current position randomly jumps by hundrends kms for example. Google Maps operate normally.
13:16.27javispedroRST38h: ta! :)
13:16.41RST38hjavis: Got a weird bug report to make
13:16.57javispedrofeel free :)
13:16.58till-why didn't they provide both charge methods, over usb and 2mm
13:17.09RST38hjavis: Any OpenTTD window that appears at the left edge of the display becomes unclosable in full screen mode
13:17.15till-now all my 2mm chargers will be useless
13:17.28RST38hjavis: Nothing to do with the software of course, it is just that the N8x0 touch screen sucks at edges
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13:17.37till-and what if i want usb host mode and power supply
13:17.48RST38htill: there is a convertor for 2mm charger
13:17.52SpeedEviltill-: volume inside the case has many costs
13:18.07AndrewFBlakanyone who uses py2deb see any problem with this ?  http://pastebin.com/mf773524
13:18.09SpeedEviltill-: from squeezing other stuff to the extra costs of a hole
13:18.13till-but i don't want to carry a converter around all the time
13:18.28RST38hjavis: So, it makes sense to open all windows a little bit away from the left and top edges of the screen
13:18.33javispedroRST38h: thank god you say that, I was starting to believe my digitizer was ddesensitizing
13:18.37ccookeOn the plus side: Since every single phone manufacturer in Europe *has* to use a USB charger, it's rather likely we'll see a lot of work go into improvements to it in the next year or two
13:18.46RST38hjavis: Naah, a known problem
13:19.18till-i only have nokia devices with 2mm
13:19.23ccookehell, it'll mean standardised docks become possible...
13:19.34javispedronoted, will see what can I do
13:19.44RST38hccooke: Gazing into my crystal balls, I already see multiple incompatible chargers using the same micro USB plug...
13:20.26till-is it possible to use the usb for charging and usb host mode at the same time?
13:20.28ccookeRST38h: one of the points is that they'd all work with a *standard* usb charger - the exact text actually defines exactly what that is
13:20.46RST38htill: Not eletrically
13:20.56javispedrothere's actually a "usb charger class" spec in usb.org
13:21.01RST38htill: The device either provides power or accepts it, doesn't it?
13:21.16SpeedEvilRST38h: yes, electrically
13:21.18Stskeepsat least it seems like you shouldn't use a freerunner to charge a n900
13:21.25till-well maybe it can work with some sort of special usb hub
13:21.53ccooketill-: possible, but you'd need drivers for it on the n900
13:21.55SpeedEvilStskeeps: It's not completely clear where the fault is there. I'd want to check that freerunner with a 500mA load
13:21.59RST38hSpeed: You mean, it can both provide power and get charged? =)
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13:22.17SpeedEvilRST38h: I was addressing the multiple incompatible chargers question
13:22.22RST38hSpeed: Ah
13:22.24RST38hSpeed: Got it
13:23.22SpeedEvilThe being in host mode while charging is a seperate question really, and is probably largely a firmware thing.
13:23.31SpeedEvilI don't think there's a standard for that.
13:23.43mgedmincompromise: 2 microUSB ports
13:23.43AndrewFBlakthinks dang it I'm an artist not a developer
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13:24.13SpeedEvilThough there are obvious solutions that occur - for example - if a hub called 'nokiacharger' is plugged in - then go to high power charging and host mode
13:24.37SpeedEvilAnd a charger with a couple of USB device ports on top
13:24.40RST38hmgedmin: ...and make one of them accept 3.5mm plug =)
13:24.41crashanddieSpeedEvil: usb has no concept of names
13:24.59javispedroit does have concept of product names and all that
13:25.00SpeedEvilcrashanddie: not quite true - but I was speaking generically.
13:25.04RST38hcrashanddieL actually it does
13:25.14RST38hcrashanddie: I am not sure if hubs are named though
13:25.27SpeedEvilRST38h: they can be
13:25.32mgedminRST38h: no, a 2mm one (because *I* have a gazillion 2mm chargers and not a single 3.5mm one)
13:25.34RST38hinteresting
13:25.35javispedroI am not sure if the USB group would accept that :)
13:25.39mgedmin3.5mm is for audio
13:25.51ccookeRST38h: they can be.
13:25.53*** join/#maemo mojocafe (n=mojocafe@d013223.adsl.hansenet.de)
13:25.56SpeedEvilRST38h: they almost never have serial numbers or names, but the only reason for that is cost
13:25.59RST38hmgedmin: 2mm is commonly considered too flimsy
13:26.07SpeedEvilAs keyboards can have serial numbers - but rarely do.
13:26.11SpeedEvilstabs.
13:26.18mojocafeis anyone willing and having the time to tell me the first steps with esbox on vmware ?
13:26.21RST38hmgedmin: the old fashioned 3.5mm was actually just right - thin enough to fit, yet thick enough to be durable
13:26.29crashanddieRST38h: you have vendor and model information, no specific name
13:26.45crashanddieRST38h: and having a driver audit for specific strings is probably the worst idea I've heard in quite some time
13:26.47SpeedEvilcrashanddie: you also can have a device identifier string
13:26.48ccookeI think all of my 2mm chargers are at least slightly bent..
13:26.54crashanddieSpeedEvil: which is unique
13:26.56RST38hcrashanddie: this is sufficient for what is being suggested
13:27.03crashanddieSpeedEvil: for each device, not per model
13:27.07mgedminit's true that a third of my gazillion 2mm chargers kinda died
13:27.18mgedminand a second third look weirdly angled
13:27.22SpeedEvilcrashanddie: indeed - there is also a serial number
13:27.23RST38hcrashanddie: you do not really care if this hub is a unique one, as long as it has got the right product/vendor ids
13:27.33ccookeIf nothing else, every USB device provides a Vendor and Product identifier - each are 16bits IIRC
13:27.42crashanddieRST38h: my point exactly
13:27.45till-wants a nokia usb hub with charging, host mode and 2/4 normal usb interfaces
13:27.46ccookeand matching on those is enough.
13:27.59mojocafenoe one? :( *crying*
13:28.20RST38hjust wants the DHL truck to come already
13:28.27StskeepsAndrewFBlak: didn't you do some Flash-related project on maemo at some point?
13:28.37till-can't that be integrated in this microusb-2mm thing?
13:28.41SpeedEvilI'm simply proposing a nokia charger - with its own nokia USB ID - which can do charging at high rate and let you connect devices at the same time.
13:28.56AndrewFBlakStskeeps, yeah
13:29.00crashanddiemojocafe: just read the bloody tutorials
13:29.01alteregoI wonder if I can get an N900 in time for me going to Iceland next month
13:29.02SpeedEvilThe _right_ way to do this would be for the USB committee not to be idiots.
13:29.09mojocafeok, could anyone at least tell me a page with the simpliest Hello World tutorial for diablo !?
13:29.12StskeepsAndrewFBlak: what exactly was it?
13:29.14ccookealterego: when are you going?
13:29.22alteregoMid Oct :)
13:29.26alteregoIt's not likely I know ^_^
13:29.33RST38hSpeed: The moment word "commitee" is used, you can't avoid saying "idiots"
13:29.35mgedminwasn't there like an eclipse plugin for maemo development?
13:29.41crashanddiemojocafe: #include <stdio.h> int main() { printf("Hello world\n"); return 0 }
13:30.02RST38hmgedmin: there is, but then using Eclipse is torture
13:30.09ccookealterego: so far, we have delivery by the 27th of September, 1st of October, 12th of October and 19th of October. Oh, and I think I heard the 1st of November, too.
13:30.15SpeedEvilRST38h: Regrettably. I've been arguing for some years that a 30V 0.5A option from 'high power' hubs would have killed 99% of the powersupplies on the desk. But meh.
13:30.18RST38hmgedmin: There is also an Anjuta plugin though, Anjuta looks like a usable choice
13:30.21ccookealterego: at least a *couple* of those would be fine for you :-)
13:30.27mgedminRST38h: and scratchbox isn't torture?
13:30.29alteregoI'm in the UK ;)
13:30.30mojocafecrash: thnx, but not for scratchbox. i am totally new to the scripting etc. and just downloaded esbox to have unix via vmware on my xp OS
13:30.39RST38hmgedmin: Not really
13:30.44AndrewFBlakStskeeps, never finished any of them one was an audio player and others were games and loaders
13:30.49RST38hmgedmin: Not unless you expect much from it
13:30.53mgedminRST38h: tell that to mojocafe
13:30.59ccookealterego: ah, well. Not a single one of those dates *directly* relates to you, then. But hey, who knows :-)
13:31.15ccookeI'm also in the UK... and while it's likely to be silly, I'm *hoping* for early October
13:31.20RST38hmgedmin; I will wait on that, until he gets smarter ;)
13:31.27alteregomojocafe: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_4-0_tutorial/
13:31.34alteregomojocafe: that one is fine for diablo
13:31.40crashanddieSpeedEvil: I have to agree with you on that. I've been a big supporter of having one main DC supply running along the house, just one big converter from AC to low voltage DC (48V or something), would eliminate the need of every single device using it's own power supply
13:31.47RST38hmgedmin: But not, as long as you use SB2 and only compile stuff in it, it is pretty harmless
13:31.50mgedminignorance and stupidity are two different things
13:31.58crashanddieits**
13:32.09mgedmindoes apt-get install work in SB2 these days?
13:32.12mgedminit didn't when I tried it
13:32.15RST38hmgedmin: Worked for me
13:32.19mgedminhard to compile stuff when you can't get libraries
13:32.19crashanddiemojocafe: then follow the tutorials on maemo.org
13:32.26RST38hmgedmin: Yes, it had problems and is still having some problems
13:32.26alteregomojocafe: there's also a hello world package in the repository you can download and look at in the scratchbox targets.
13:32.30mojocafealter: thnx a lot. but now a stupid question: how can i enter these NOT in terminal but in esbox ?
13:32.32javispedroI like SB1 :)
13:32.39mgedminmojocafe: what is "esbox"?
13:32.50javispedroeclipse.
13:32.53RST38hmgedmin: But at least you are no longer forced to access your local project files via NFS :)
13:32.59mojocafehttp://esbox.garage.maemo.org/
13:33.05AndrewFBlakStskeeps, why do you ask?
13:33.05javispedroRST38h: I use --bind. The result is still faster than SB2...
13:33.14mojocafeis esbox = eclipse ?
13:33.19mgedminah, _that_'s the eclipse thing I vaguely heard about
13:33.27RST38hjavis: Dunno, I have not noticed any problems with compilation speed
13:33.35crashanddiemojocafe: no, esbox is the project that packages eclipse in the manner you're using it
13:33.38alteregoI've never used the Eclipse plugin.
13:33.44crashanddiemojocafe: I suggest you learn to use Linux before trying to develop for it
13:33.47RST38hmgedminL Btw, esbox does not free you from having to use SB
13:33.48alteregoI use a KVM virtualised environment with SSH+GEDIT
13:34.11mgedminmojocafe: I assume you already read the documentation on the esbox site?
13:34.15RST38hcompiles on an Ubuntu host (with sb2), the SCPs and runs on the device
13:34.17mojocafecrash: ok got it, thnx. i there started a new c++ maemo project and he built me hundreds of files that i do not know what to do about. i would like to start from the first line by myself.
13:34.42RST38hmojocafe: You start by deleting all those files, then deleting Eclipse
13:34.49alteregoRST38h: used sshfs on the host side?
13:34.53javispedrolol.
13:34.58mojocafeRST: lol
13:35.01alteregoWorks a little better for me than scp :)
13:35.02RST38hmojocafe: Once you do that, get the Maemopad example and examine it closely
13:35.06crashanddiemojocafe: just download a linux VM and start with that
13:35.20RST38hmojocafe: Alternatively, you can look at the older HelloWorld example from Maemo3 SDK
13:35.34RST38hmojocafe: It is much simpler and shows you how to compile stuff without autoconf
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13:35.51mojocafecrash: esbox and vmware are taht. and it is great. i can even start a maemo emulator. i understood the mandatory filestructure of a maemo project but do not even know where to continue.
13:36.05javispedro"mandatory"?
13:36.08crashanddiemojocafe: please use the full nickname of the people you're talking to
13:36.13RST38halterego: Yea, using sshfs every now and then, but I am used to command line, so scp is not a big deal
13:36.19StskeepsAndrewFBlak: cos of mojocafe
13:36.22mojocaferst38h: that might be a good idea !!!!
13:36.34StskeepsAndrewFBlak: wants to do a simple loader i think
13:37.09javispedroRST38h: I mount the dev folder in the device using NFS. works great.
13:37.19AndrewFBlakI thought mojocafe was web browser based
13:37.22javispedro(for gdb sessions, since gdb finds the source)
13:37.25crashanddiemojocafe: I know what esbox is, please don't be a smartass when asking for help. I'm telling you you're taking things too quickly. Get yourself used to writing a small app, no fancy project development tools, just gcc/python, whatever floats your boat
13:37.45mojocafeandrewFBlak: coreect but i want to develop it as fullscreen application for my n800
13:37.48RST38hjavis: I am not that advanced...
13:38.08RST38hjavis: Besides, I have found long time ago that printf() is sufficient for debugging and does not add all that much to debugging time
13:38.17crashanddieRST38h: lol
13:38.23SpeedEvilprintf++
13:38.29RST38hYou just use it STRATEGICALLY and you are fine
13:38.39javispedroit's great for finding your way around :)
13:38.42mojocafeok. thanks.
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13:39.01crashanddieRST38h: one of my projects generates 15megs of logs in the first 30 seconds of startup
13:39.06javispedroactually, I consider oprofile a godsend.
13:39.15RST38hcrashanddie: Bad strategy! :)
13:39.17lcukmojocafe, also, with your fullscreen app, make sure user has an easy way out - if you dont and they get a phone call they will be annoyed
13:39.29RST38hjavis: Brought to you by Intel, really
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13:39.51crashanddieRST38h: that's why you can set the debug flags ;)
13:39.52javispedroDidn't know. I've been playing a bit with the pin stuff lately
13:39.54RST38hjavis: If Intel had not included those hw performance counters into its CPUs, nobody would :)
13:40.06AndrewFBlakmojocafe, are you wanting to have peoples settings on your site carry over to the tablet application?  I mean having the Flash Items on tablet is real easy linking which ones show from users site account is only hard part
13:40.13javispedroah, you mean _indirectly_ :)
13:40.29crashanddieRST38h: just saying, a good logging library is needed, and a lot more performing than say, if (DEBUG == true) printf(bla)
13:41.00mojocafeAndrewFBlak: nah forget. I'll check other stuff first. Thanks a lot for your help and support.
13:41.01RST38hcrashanddie: Whatever logging library you implement, if you are dropping 15MB of logs on startup, you will still lose
13:41.23RST38hcrashanddie: As a short term solution, I can suggest using ZLib, it will be quick to add
13:41.26crashanddieRST38h: this is a multi million project that is being used by multiple governments ;)
13:41.39javispedroAlso, at least when I talk about "printf debugging" I don't mean "proper logging". Sometimes I abuse and do "Printf("a1\n");
13:41.42RST38hcrashanddie: And all these will lose =)
13:41.57crashanddieright :)
13:42.04RST38hjavis: I use 111, 222, 333, 444, ...
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13:42.16RST38hjavis: Just to see where exactly it fucks up
13:42.21javispedroyeah.
13:42.31crashanddiearrogant IRC prat tells successful company how to write their code, news at 11
13:42.34RST38hbut it is one of situations where GDB is of some use though
13:42.43javispedroconsiders that a bad habit though. learnt from the palm days.
13:42.48alteregoI use, 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, :P
13:42.50RST38hIt is good at pointint out the crahs points :)
13:43.13alteregoNice when you need to recurse into a function call :P
13:43.16RST38hcrashanddie: Ah, ok, continue generating 15MB logs at startup
13:43.28RST38hWho am I to tell you not to... :)
13:43.42crashanddieRST38h: in debug mode, I really don't see any issue with that ;)
13:44.09javispedroI don't either. Just call it a "trace" and be done with it :)
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13:44.17RST38hEhehe
13:44.25crashanddielol javispedro, fair enoughj
13:44.33crashanddieanyway, time for cancer
13:44.41crashanddielcuk: is the weather shite in gunchester as well?
13:44.51RST38hMeanwhile: Google Street View Cars Prowl Outer Herbides!
13:45.25SpeedEvilponders openstreetview again.
13:45.47alteregoHeh
13:45.57alteregoI wanna do some augmented reality stuff.
13:46.09RST38hdrugs, you mean?
13:46.15alterego:)
13:46.16lbtholland is good for that
13:46.49lcukcrashanddie, sunny windy.  outlook is ok so far today
13:47.00javispedrobtw, does anyone know a good (fast, not perl) tcp over udp tunnel and udp hole punching?
13:47.02lcukhope the remaining clouds clear tho
13:47.14lcuktcp over udp tunnel?
13:47.20lcukisnt that tcp itself
13:47.34alteregoThat's what I was thinking :)
13:47.40javispedronot really. tcp uses ip.
13:47.49lcukthats like being asked to use udp code but put in delivery confirmation and resending :p
13:47.54javispedroit makes no sense I know. It does when you factor in two hosts between two NATs each.
13:47.56lcukudp uses ip
13:48.19javispedrosee http://samy.pl/chownat/ (which is what I've been using)
13:48.19lcukfor router problems, you could just use carrier pigeons
13:48.30javispedrobut being in perl, in requires a chroot, and is sloooow.
13:48.38lcukits always going to be slow
13:48.49lcukyou have to attack from both sides and hope you get a match
13:48.57lcukand its a flood attack basically isnt it
13:49.07crashanddieyup
13:49.13javispedrofor the startup phase at least
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13:49.26javispedrobut after that it should be "as fast as a direct udp connecting".
13:49.31javispedro*connection.
13:49.35RST38hHmmm...Combined Canon+SE device to be announced on Sep 21
13:49.39crashanddiejavispedro: it's never going to be as fast
13:49.57crashanddiejavispedro: you have an extra layer, atop of UP
13:49.58crashanddieUDP
13:50.03javispedrocrashanddie: ah, right.
13:50.03ccookeRST38h: not necessarily - aren't those seperate announcements that happen to have the same date?
13:50.33javispedrobut no "random" overheads due to flooding
13:50.38crashanddiehowever, having it being run by a perl script isn't helping the whole speed thing
13:51.02RST38hccooke: apparently they are preparing a joint announcement
13:51.09javispedrothat's what I say. It starts to consume a lot of memory and nearlt 50% of the cpu just by sshing in and doing "ps ax".
13:51.13lcukflooding is only at connection time
13:51.19crashanddieRST38h: joint announcement? In Amsterdam?
13:51.23javispedrolcuk: yes, afaiu
13:51.25RST38hOr maybe I am reading too much into it
13:51.26lcukonce you have the "connection"/"session" isnt it normal speed as you say
13:51.48alteregoI want to write an app that downloads my friends profile pics from facebook/whereever and uses those images in my phone book.
13:52.45X-Fadealterego: Isn't that what Maemo5 does already?
13:52.52ccookeTCP over UDP is almost as fast as raw TCP - the only times it'll be slower are when you're sending packets that are larger than your MTU - and even then, it's only a few percent slower.
13:53.10alteregoX-Fade: does it?
13:53.15ccookeperl ought to be able to saturate a 100Mbit link at the least, probably gigabit.
13:53.24javispedroccooke: on a tablet
13:53.37ccookejavispedro: ah, well. n810?
13:53.42X-Fadealterego: Well, at least it seems to get the from your gtalk contacts etc?
13:53.43javispedroyep
13:53.53alteregoI don't use gtalk
13:53.58ccookejavispedro: if you can't saturate a 10M connection, something's wrong.
13:54.05alteregoAnd none of my friends use it either :P
13:54.07X-Fadealterego: in the demo youtube video you see that.
13:54.18ccookejavispedro: it *should* be fast enough for that.
13:54.31X-Fadealterego: So I guess you can plug in every telepathy provider?
13:54.46javispedroccooke: well. it felt *so slow* (ssh) than I didn't even try a NX/VNC session.
13:54.55ccookeThat's a shame :-.
13:55.01ccookehmm
13:55.08alteregoHow does it know that facebook friend A is contact 1?
13:55.17ccookeFor pure networking, perl is actually pretty optimised
13:55.26javispedroccooke: i fault perl, since I'm using the totally unoptimised debian binary
13:55.43javispedrocompiled for armv4 iirc.
13:56.00ccookejavispedro: thing is, perl has a pretty good built-in optimiser. When you're doing networking code, it should be *fast*.
13:56.19X-Fadealterego: Don't know if there is a facebook provider for telepathy.
13:56.31ccookejavispedro: it's not like user code where you shunt around strings and dynamic variables. It'll be basically working on ints and never casting...
13:56.47javispedroccooke: well, maybe It's just not good for interactive stuff but has good throughput. will try with NX when I get back.
13:56.48ccookejavispedro: of course, that assumes that the perl script was well written
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13:57.35alteregoX-Fade: there is for libpurple, I thought they were kind of the same thing .. Kind of .. :)
13:57.46ccookejavispedro: the problem is, tcp over udp is the best fit for interactive use there is when tunneling.
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13:59.26javispedro:P
14:00.01ccookewhat's the script you use?
14:00.19javispedroccooke: http://samy.pl/chownat/
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14:03.24X-Fadealterego: It seems that msn support is being uploaded to extras-devel as we speak.
14:03.53alteregoCool
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14:04.39X-Fadeah, and facebookchat was already uploaded, but failed to build.
14:04.41RST38hX-Fade: Any news of BT HID support?
14:04.58X-FadeRST38h: How should I know?
14:05.07alteregoHeh
14:05.39X-FadeIt seems that Jonnylamb is doing a good job ;)
14:05.55ccookejavispedro: tried it with debug enabled?
14:06.11Stskeepsfor fremantle?
14:06.11Stskeepsdrools
14:06.19RST38hX-Fade: Well, I hoped somebody could upload it to extras-devel as well =)
14:06.29RST38hAfter all, it is said to be easily addable
14:06.49javispedroccooke: I was thiking just about that. it did print sequence numbers for each package received, so I guess the answer is "yes".
14:06.58X-FadeRST38h: Well, I guess that when hardware is generally available, someone will scratch that itch.
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14:07.05ccookejavispedro: and nothing about missing packets?
14:07.14javispedroccooke: none that I could see.
14:07.43ccookejavispedro: drat. The code isn't setting off any warning bells in my head - which of course doesn't mean it's *good*, but...
14:07.53javispedroccooke: i'm open to suggestions :)
14:07.55*** join/#maemo etrunko (n=edulima@200.184.118.130)
14:08.00javispedro(about alternative programs)
14:08.26javispedroI will give this one another go, but not today
14:08.34ccookejavispedro: well, I used openvpn on the nokia a while back
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14:09.05ccookejavispedro: which also uses tcp-over-udp, but was definitely okay for interactive use
14:09.07javispedrocon you use that between two nat'd hosts without an extra host?
14:09.08javispedroah
14:09.39ccookejavispedro: it can be used in several modes, but IIRC one will provide that.
14:10.08javispedroalso, being able to use it without root is a nice plus.
14:10.11ccookejavispedro: http://opensource-openmind.blogspot.com/2007/12/setting-up-openvpn-server-behind-router.html
14:10.41ccookeah, now that's something that openvpn won't solve, unfortunately
14:11.29GeneralAntillesstabs Comcast.
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14:11.59ccookeTechnically, there's no reason you couldn't run a single-connection-single-port client as a user
14:12.05ccookebut as far as I know it hasn't been done
14:12.50javispedroyeah. Well, there's the script I sent you, which I found nice. Using ssh then I can multiplex in any extra ports as required.
14:13.11ccooke*nod*
14:13.14ccooke... actually...
14:13.43ccookehmm.
14:13.44ccookeOne moment.
14:14.23*** join/#maemo acouto (n=adriano@201.56.102.13)
14:14.58AndrewFBlakI'm trying to use py2deb but all my files are not making it into the tar file can I just add the ones that are not going in manually or will that not work?
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14:21.11Stskeepshm, where was the packages interface again? as in, view queue, new builds etc
14:21.13lopzhi ;)
14:21.26X-FadeStskeeps: maemo.org/packages/
14:21.33Stskeepsah
14:21.38Stskeepsi went for packages.maemo.org, silly me :P
14:21.45Stskeepsta
14:21.51X-FadeStskeeps: Although the new builds part is changing at the moment ;)
14:22.16javispedrohum. someone built minimal libesd->pulseaudio, good news :)
14:22.17wazdhttp://www.mobilewhack.com/new-bmorn-player-bm-888/
14:22.17wazdNew Mer candidate? :)
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14:23.01Stskeepspossibly, but it has to be hackable :P
14:23.40javispedrothey don't even list what cpu it uses.
14:24.05acoutohi all
14:24.36RST38hwazd: It is an x86 device
14:24.49RST38hwazd: Will probably run Ubuntu or Moblin
14:24.56javispedrofor 177$?
14:25.13RST38hWell it says " The player weighs 440grams, supports USB 2.0, and works with Windows Vista, XP, and Windows 2000."
14:25.15wazdRST38h: noway :)
14:25.16SpeedEvilThere are some _really_ cheap lower end x86 chips coming out
14:25.27SpeedEvil'works with' != runs
14:25.44RST38hhmm
14:25.46wazdRST38h: I think it "supports" Win Vist etc
14:25.54javispedroRST38h: considering the rest of the announcement reads like an advertisement, my guess is "the music+adware software we force you to use works with..."
14:26.00wazdRST38h: UMPC for $200? :D
14:26.06RST38hwell it is made by brando, so it has to be cheap
14:26.16RST38hwazd: more like a keyboardless netbook
14:26.28RST38hjavis: maybe, yes
14:26.39javispedroeither way. an x86 tablet for $177, capable of running Windows? I would buy it in an instant.
14:26.53wazdRST38h: noway :) There should be hell of a noise then :)
14:27.00javispedroit's 7''.
14:27.00SpeedEviljavispedro: you can get that on ebay.
14:27.05SpeedEviljavispedro: Just not very new ones :)(
14:27.20javispedroSpeedEvil, :)
14:27.20RST38hwazd: Atoms run fanless
14:28.05wazdRST38h: no, I mean "Blog" noise :)
14:29.13RST38hah
14:29.26RST38hwazd: btw, ru_nokia
14:29.45RST38hwazd: empty for now, but rumor says it will be the "official blog"
14:29.51javispedrohttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/15/sinchuns-8-9-inch-umpc-891a-holds-onto-the-past-with-xp/
14:30.01javispedrosee, a x86 7'' tablet
14:30.14javispedrowell, not 7'', but approx ;)
14:30.22javispedroand it costs $439
14:30.31RST38hwho knows...
14:30.45acoutoi have a question : "i wanna to execute a gps example. I installed the scratchbox and maemo's sdk and I can not compile . says he doesnt have the lib gps.h, how do I install this lib?"
14:31.15RST38hapt-get
14:31.28javispedro"a gps example"?
14:31.59acoutojavispedro, http://pastie.org/617451
14:32.38javispedroah, using libgpsbt
14:33.34javispedroI don't have libgpsbt in my fremantle sdk
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14:33.46javispedroare you targeting diablo or fremantle?
14:34.01acoutodiablo
14:34.14AndrewFBlakwonder why i keep getting logged out of maemo.org when using extras assistant
14:34.24javispedroacouto: "apt-get install osso-gpsd-dev"
14:34.41RST38h'cause Maemo.org logins are still broken in mysterious ways
14:35.07qwerty12AndrewFBlak: https://
14:35.08RST38hSo far, X-Fade managed to persuade me that it is all because of web caching, but I am getting doubtful again
14:35.14X-FadeAndrewFBlak: because that is garage.
14:35.18acoutojavispedro, i ll install
14:35.24X-FadeAndrewFBlak: Which technically isn't maemo.org ;)
14:35.38AndrewFBlakok i keep getting logged out of Garage :)
14:35.43X-FadeAndrewFBlak: Different sessions at least.
14:36.53acoutojavispedro, osso-gpsd-dev is already the newest version.
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14:37.23javispedrothen pastebin your compiler output, since that package provides gps.h
14:38.23acoutojavispedro, I think I'm not knowing how to compile. I just "gcc -o"
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14:43.42acoutojavispedro, http://pastie.org/617469
14:44.32qwerty12acouto: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pkg-config
14:46.01crashanddiehow is gcc -o not compiling?
14:46.08crashanddieqwerty12: shouldn't you be at school or something?
14:46.15qwerty12crashanddie: lessons finished for the day
14:46.26crashanddieqwerty12: then shouldn't you be selling drugs?
14:46.35qwerty12crashanddie: that comes later
14:46.43crashanddieqwerty12: selling stolen PS3s at the moment?
14:46.48crashanddieebaying russian wives?
14:46.48*** join/#maemo paperclip2 (n=Stanley@93.2.39.157)
14:47.07qwerty12Wow, who gave you my eBay username?
14:47.51javispedroacouto: actually, gps.h is in /usr/include,
14:48.03javispedroyour problem is that both gtk.h _and_ gpsbt.h are missing
14:48.07javispedrogps.h is the only one it finds
14:48.10javispedro.....
14:48.31javispedrosighs :)
14:49.15crashanddieacouto: -I/usr/lib/gtk or something
14:49.25crashanddieor /usr/include
14:49.26crashanddiecan't remember
14:49.28javispedroor `pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0' iirc
14:49.35crashanddiejavispedro: that too :)
14:49.56javispedrobetter yet: grab the maemopad makefile and read how they invoke gcc.
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14:50.51wazd_lol, my internet cord works like water pipe or something :)
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14:51.20qwerty12In Soviet Russia, internet disconnects you
14:51.24wazd_If I'll squeeze it - internet stops working :D
14:52.22crashanddiewazd_: you use your internet to make girls wearing white tshirts wet? Then yes, your internet cord is the same as my water hose
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14:53.39hexa--is it possible to get maemo 5.0 installed into qemu?
14:54.05javispedroit's not released.
14:54.13hexa--oh ok
14:54.39hexa--all these news about n900 and it is not released yet :D
14:54.49javispedrothere's a beta sdk released
14:55.23javispedrowhich runs parts of the gui (both as native i386 and user-space qemu armel), but that's not maemo5.
14:55.45hexa--hm okay, so i'll be patient :)
14:55.48hexa--thanks for the input
14:56.20javispedro:)
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15:03.40AndrewFBlakslaps the garage
15:09.32AndrewFBlakI don't get my garage never has any problem keeping me logged in until today
15:12.00javispedroMurphy's Law?
15:12.02RST38hwonders why all these java-based web "solutions" insist on setting webpage icon to SUN logo
15:12.25javispedroRST38h: same reason my ISP had the "Netscape web server" favicon for years.
15:12.43RST38hjavis: Let me guess... "ignorance"?
15:12.54javispedro:)
15:13.16javispedroa mix of ignorance, lazyness, and expecting your users are ignorants are the same time :)
15:13.31javispedro*at the same time
15:14.23RST38hStudent Kills Intruder with Samurai Sword after PlayStation, Laptops Stolen
15:15.10javispedroyay revenge
15:18.33timeless_mbpRST38h: server pride :)
15:18.47timeless_mbppart of the reason though was to prevent the server logs from filling up w/ 404s
15:18.52timeless_mbp:)
15:19.48javispedrodreamhost now implemented a policy where a 404 to a "favicon.ico" file results in the webserver creating the file (empty content).
15:21.02AndrewFBlakok this makes no since why garage wont remember me even if whn I try multple computers
15:21.03javispedroSuicide of France Telecom employee 23rd in 18 months, triggering government concern
15:21.04javispedrowha?
15:21.40javispedroI knew carriers were more evil than the devil, but this...
15:22.16RST38h"Can be easily summoned with an enchanted dagger made of a pure metal. Since there is little limitations on when or where this ritual can take place, Dimensional Shamblers have become a favourite species to summon for many wizards and / or cultists."
15:23.01RST38hjavis: They should at least inflict some damage on the employer before they suicide, otherwise it sounds like waste
15:23.19javispedro"A 32-year-old employee working in the bill collection service threw herself from a sixth-floor window of the Paris building where she worked Friday evening shortly after learning that she would get a new boss."
15:23.24javispedroI think "that" qualifies as damage ;)
15:23.59Stskeepsjavispedro: France Telecom is obviously Hell Inc.
15:24.05qwerty12Only if she smashed the window before jumping out of it.
15:25.28javispedroI wonder if the "new boss" was steve ballmer or someone equally evil.
15:26.37RST38hMust have been the Tentacled One Himself!
15:27.10qwerty12RST38h: Didn't you hear? He also killed himself after hearing that he would have to work there, too
15:27.32RST38hqwerty: The Tentacled One is eternal, of course.
15:27.54qwerty12But this is France Telecom
15:28.07javispedroyes, they're even more eternal.
15:28.10qwerty12No one fucks with them unless they're about to kill themselves
15:28.16javispedroif the fine print of your average phone contract is to be believed.
15:28.18RST38hTelecoms may well be controlled by supernatural forces
15:28.38RST38hHas anyone ever seen a head of a national telecom company in person? I mean, as a live person?
15:28.54crashanddiewhat did quim eat this morning?
15:29.04crashanddiesome superwarior cereals?
15:29.10RST38hSee? For all we know they may be Deep Ones
15:29.12crashanddieVindicative Manager syndrome pops?
15:29.23crashanddieRST38h: yup
15:29.23RST38hcrashanddie: What happened to Quim?
15:29.34crashanddieRST38h: I met the head of BT and head of FT
15:29.48crashanddiewhich are both international, I guess
15:29.53RST38hcrashanddie: how many tentacles on each?
15:29.59crashanddie6 on average
15:30.02chxwhere do you guys get audio cables (to plug in a headphone and a mic) for the n810?
15:30.10crashanddieeh
15:30.12crashanddieI quit?
15:30.26RST38hyou did. for revealing the number of tentacles BT chief has
15:30.31*** join/#maemo pH5 (n=ph5@e178231235.adsl.alicedsl.de)
15:30.36crashanddiewell it is from a BT landline
15:30.47RST38hanyways, what is up with Quim?
15:30.53crashanddieI dunno
15:30.57RST38ht.m.o finally got on his nerves?
15:31.05crashanddiehis answers are a bit rough, to say the least
15:31.59crashanddie"Guys, we can't micromanage every detail for everybody. Apply your common sense, don't abuse the system and everything will be fine. Thank you!"
15:32.13crashanddie"Maybe it's me, but 3) sounds like a no brainer [...]"
15:32.13qwerty12It's your fault.
15:32.21RST38hwell, isn't he right?
15:32.32crashanddiewell, no
15:32.41crashanddiehe misreads an email,  and then tries to make us look like idiots
15:32.49GeneralAntillescrashanddie, that sounds like one of my statements that's not intended to be brusque being interpreted as such.
15:32.53*** join/#maemo crashanddie_ (n=crashand@SecuraBit/listener/crashanddie)
15:32.54*** join/#maemo AndrewFBlack (n=ablack@232-220.dothan.cable.graceba.net)
15:33.09crashanddiehi crashanddie_
15:33.27qwerty12crashanddie_: like crashanddie, you suck
15:33.28AndrewFBlackdoes the garage extras assistant work for everyone else or is just me?
15:33.39crashanddieqwerty12: stfu,  kiddo
15:33.51*** join/#maemo n6pfkk (n=mike@96.238.186.191)
15:33.53qwerty12crashanddie_ is too pussy to answer
15:34.01qwerty12He has to get crashanddie to do it for him
15:34.30*** join/#maemo _crashanddie_ (i=c336e713@SecuraBit/listener/crashanddie)
15:34.36_crashanddie_happy now?
15:34.39qwerty12asshat
15:34.41javispedroAndrewFBlack: I can get to the package upload form. I don't have a package to upload though.
15:35.24crashanddieGeneralAntilles & qwerty12: there's a guy who just wanted advice/point out something based on the very good premise that it's not his money, and he just wanted to know which options he had
15:35.43crashanddieand quim just tells him he lacks common sense, and pollutes THE FUCKING MAILING LISTS?
15:35.52RST38hcrash: url?
15:35.59crashanddiedunno, check your inbox
15:36.02RST38hok
15:36.06timeless_mbpwhich list?
15:36.08qwerty12RST38h: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/community/52275
15:36.10*** join/#maemo bbigras (n=bbigras@modemcable195.82-202-24.mc.videotron.ca)
15:36.31crashanddieit's a mailing list, helloooooo, half the stuff that goes on in there is just ranting is stupid stuff
15:36.35crashanddieit's like IRC on crack
15:36.41GeneralAntillescrashanddie, hello, overreaction.
15:36.54crashanddieGeneralAntilles: I can't get some IDM code to work, just venting, nevermind
15:36.56Myrtti*yawn*
15:37.42crashanddieqwerty12: lmao @ comment on stephen's nomination
15:37.59javispedrosearches the internets for superwarior cereals
15:38.21timeless_mbppost 7 isn't talking about polluting the mailinglist
15:38.28timeless_mbpit's saying don't try to rip nokia off for 1000usd
15:38.28qwerty12crashanddie: :)
15:38.38ccookejavispedro: you might have more luck search for supperwarrior ones
15:38.58timeless_mbpoh
15:39.02javispedroreplacing one typo with another? :)
15:39.08ccooketimeless_mbp: "What, so you can't fly first class?"
15:39.09timeless_mbpsighs @c10
15:39.12ccookejavispedro: argh.
15:39.16qwerty12ccooke: That's called "Viagra"...
15:39.19timeless_mbpccooke: i can't fly at all :)
15:39.28ccooketimeless_mbp: oh?
15:39.36timeless_mbpnokia won't pay for me to go :)
15:40.05AndrewFBlackthis make no since some times I can get to step 4 before garage logs me out and sometimes I just get loged right back out when I log in
15:40.06crashanddieccooke: timeless has a physical condition which prevents him from taking the plane
15:40.08qwerty12timeless_mbp: Ask them to pay for your face change operation and we'll vouch for you as a community member
15:40.15crashanddieccooke: as such, he has to go everywhere on a push-bike
15:40.17ccookewell, nor me. Although I know for certain that's a good decision on their part :-)
15:40.23javispedro"Chinock Reposatory"... :D
15:40.36timeless_mbpjavispedro: where'd you find that?
15:40.42javispedrotmo post
15:40.55timeless_mbpcrashanddie: well, i do have a physical condition that prevents me from driving a car unaided ;-)
15:40.59timeless_mbpneeds glasses :(
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15:41.24ccookeI have a physical condition that prevents me from driving a car unmodified... :-)
15:42.04crashanddieqwerty12: why did you remove the "rt" part of your last name?
15:42.05GeneralAntillesccooke, a Need for Speed? ;)
15:42.10qwerty12crashanddie: I didn't want to be associated with people like you
15:42.12crashanddieGeneralAntilles: he said unmodified, not under the influence
15:42.36ccookeGeneralAntilles: Heh. No, I'm too big. There isn't a car I can drive without having the front seat ripped out and bolted on further back :-)
15:42.44crashanddieqwerty12: so it's not Faheem Pervertz?
15:42.45ccookeWhich is the main reason I've never learned
15:42.57crashanddieccooke: how big?
15:43.02GeneralAntillesccooke, ever driven an American SUV?
15:43.39ccookecrashanddie: 6'8", but built like an average (so, you know. Overweight) geek scaled up.
15:43.52crashanddiegeeks aren't overweight
15:43.59crashanddiewell, I guess geeks are usually in the extremes
15:44.09ccookecrashanddie: yeah, painfully thin is about as common
15:44.26crashanddieI was scared that if I sneezed, qwerty12 would fly away
15:44.37ccookeGeneralAntilles: Tried one once. They're not *particularly* common in the UK, of course.
15:44.55qwerty12But, yet, I'd need a fucking bulldozer to even move crashanddie an inch
15:45.12javispedrouses a bulldozer to move around
15:45.25ccookeGeneralAntilles: I could get my legs under the steering wheel, but having them above the pedals was painful to the point of muscle spasm. Which they told me wouldn't be a good thing for a driver :-)
15:45.43GeneralAntillesccooke, clearly you need to go bigger, then. ;)
15:45.52ccookeGeneralAntilles: naturally!
15:46.11lcukqwerty12, and crashanddie has superhero powers - he just holds out his hand and you fly back 10 foot
15:46.28GeneralAntillesWikipedia. . . .
15:46.39GeneralAntillesI love it when people drive-by spam deletion proposals.
15:46.53ccookeGeneralAntilles: oh dear. Which article?
15:47.01GeneralAntillesCanola
15:47.25javispedrofwiw http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canola_(software)
15:48.54AndrewFBlackwell it took over 100 tries but i got extras assistant to take my files lol
15:49.15chxhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/3-5mm-Audio-Adaptor-Microphone-Nokia/dp/B000XEUHP6 <= will this work with the N810?
15:49.30crashanddiejavispedro & GeneralAntilles: there's no discussion on the talk page about the deletion
15:49.51Stskeepscanola probably won't meet notability
15:50.01GeneralAntillescrashanddie, right, because all they did was add a deletion notice to the top and claim it's not notable.
15:50.17SpeedEvilhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Canola_%28software%29
15:50.20javispedroyay deletionpedia
15:50.41GeneralAntillesI don't know what purpose deleting articles serves.
15:50.55GeneralAntillesBusy bodies with too much goddamn time on their hands.
15:50.57SpeedEvilThe motto of the AIW is Conservata veritate, which translates to, "With the preserved truth". This motto reflects the inclusionist desire to change Wikipedia only when no knowledge would be lost as a result.
15:51.01SpeedEvil...
15:51.14GeneralAntillesOvi Maps seems to have incomplete lists of everything.
15:51.23GeneralAntillesOf the dozen post offices in this area, it only lists 4.
15:51.44javispedroGeneralAntilles: me neither. and don't get me started why Grand Moff Tarkin deserves an article but every other piece of software in existence does not.
15:51.52qwerty12GeneralAntilles: The guy's name is "Miami33139". Go find him and beef it out.
15:51.58Proteousit's your fault for having so many frickin post offices
15:52.06Proteous12?
15:52.09GeneralAntillesqwerty12, Miam scares the shit out of me quite honestly. :P
15:52.18GeneralAntillesProteous, yeah, USPS is AWESOME.
15:52.21qwerty12:p
15:52.26GeneralAntillesYou just wish you had 12 UPS stores.
15:52.30GeneralAntilless/Miam/Miami/
15:52.49GeneralAntillesis off to the post office.
15:52.57Proteouslol
15:53.03Proteouschoices choices
15:55.17crashanddiew00t w00t, let's fight the Wikipedia trolls http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Canola_%28software%29#Canola_.28software.29
15:55.29RST38hlets not.
15:55.33javispedrogood luck.
15:55.44javispedroI personally already bookmarked the future Deletionpedia url.
15:57.15javispedro"Andrew Lih, a deletionist-turned inclusionist, observes a cultural shift from Wikipedia's initial expansion in that it has become more cautious. He changed his position when an article he created about the social networking website Pownce was speedily deleted by another administrator as advertising."
15:57.27RST38hAssociation of Illusionist Wikipedians...
15:57.38javispedroformally, this means there can be no true deletionist.
15:58.10RST38hpresently, it means that just about any wikipedian is an illusionist =)
15:58.13Myrttithere is no such thing as a deletionist
15:58.13javispedro"The article on South African restaurant Mzoli's was nominated for deletion after being created by Wikipedia co-founder Jimmy Wales,[27] who said that supporters of deletion displayed "shockingly bad faith behavior."
15:58.23javispedroheh.
15:58.27Myrttithere's only eventualists
15:59.31RST38hall articles created by Wales should be deleted.
15:59.53javispedroRST38h: delete wikipedia itself then :)
15:59.55RST38hafter all he tainted himself. burn, Burn. BURN IT ALL!!!
16:00.01RST38hjavis: Good idea
16:00.07RST38hlaughs diabolically
16:00.44qwerty12Despite being a geek myself, I actually find it sad and laughable that there's fucking drama to be found on Wikipedia.
16:01.06RST38hqwerty: This is known as "Geeks find out about social interaction"
16:01.08javispedrothere's drama in my soup too.
16:01.24javispedroRST38h: more like "geeks getting to rule the world"
16:01.25RST38hprefers lurkmore/etc
16:01.30RST38hAnd scp of course
16:01.46RST38hjavis: *and* finding about social interaction in the process.
16:02.12*** join/#maemo wirelessdreamer (n=anderson@chrobd01.vailsys.com)
16:02.12Myrttiqwerty12: which is why I'm not going to be elected to the Finnish Wikipedia ArbCom anymore
16:02.13RST38hwishes US daycare/school would be more like in .RU
16:02.13javispedroinstead of political debates between abortion or evolution, we would get inclusionism vs deletionism
16:02.39*** join/#maemo alehorst (n=alehorst@189.26.42.26.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br)
16:02.41RST38hThat would greatly decrease social awkwardness at the later stages
16:02.48crashanddiegeeks getting to shape what history will remember, now that's scary
16:02.50qwerty12Myrtti: :)
16:03.13javispedrocrashanddie: yay, "the geek age" :)
16:03.13Myrttiit's actually why I haven't really contributed to it at all in two years
16:03.20qwerty12I just don't get all the drama over a encyclopedia. "Ooh, let's ban him! Delete this article! This guy is a spammer!"
16:03.27qwerty12Jesus Christ, get a fucking life
16:04.00qwerty12(And this is me saying that...)
16:04.01RST38hqwerty: Everybody thinks his assho^H^H^H^Hopinion is the most important one, that's all
16:04.18javispedroqwerty12: it's all about ruling the world :) especially when your average reporter is going to grab his "facts" from there :)
16:04.26Myrttiqwerty12: http://xkcd.com/386/
16:04.34qwerty12javispedro: I thought that was The Onion? :)
16:04.34Myrttiknowledge is power
16:04.41RST38hqwerty: This feeling should really get surgically removed at early stages of kid's growth
16:04.41qwerty12Myrtti: :D
16:05.05crashanddieMyrtti: http://xkcd.com/285/
16:05.06RST38hqwerty: Unfortunately, it does not, at least not in the US
16:05.16Myrttirelated http://xkcd.com/635/
16:05.30RST38hqwerty: So, 18-20 years later, you get this crap.
16:06.23rm_youdaycare in the US is useless
16:06.28luke-jrRST38h: huh? surgically remove a feeling?
16:06.35rm_youI'd rather have my children wandering around my house unsupervised
16:07.24rm_youthen when they find a knife and cut themselves they damn well learn not to do it again
16:07.41RST38hmore or less, yes
16:07.45luke-jrrm_you: lol
16:07.59RST38hBut it is not too late to remove all the warning labels ;)
16:08.10luke-jrI think that's how my daughter learned not to stick her hand in the trash ;)
16:08.26RST38hluke-jr: So, what was hiding in the trash? =)
16:08.36rm_youyeah, whatever happened to the days of "let your kids touch a hot stove and burn their hand, THEN tell them not to do it"?
16:08.58rm_younowadays kids don't learn the stove is hot till they move out and go try to cook in their college dorm
16:09.00luke-jrRST38h: metal can, opened
16:09.03crashanddieMyrtti: xkcd fight: http://xkcd.com/446/
16:09.09RST38hluke_jr: Oh. Painful.
16:09.10rm_youand they're like, omg this really IS hot
16:09.35luke-jrrm_you: pfft, make your kids cook meals for you when they turn 7
16:09.45RST38hrm_you: There was a story in some blog once, about the author taking his 12 year old daughter to the window
16:09.47rm_youthings it is somewhat ironic that he holds this view and IS a college student
16:09.54zaheermrm_you, what's a stove again? ;)
16:09.59rm_yous/things/thinks/
16:10.01luke-jrhaha, so true
16:10.02rm_youlol
16:10.07luke-jrmost kids probably only  use microwaves
16:10.18rm_youi was taught the old way
16:10.22rm_youapparently i'm an exception
16:10.23*** part/#maemo gaspa (n=gaspa@host134-118-static.61-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it)
16:10.23MyrttiI use microwave for cooking my porridge mainly
16:10.25qwerty12microwaves++
16:10.30RST38hrm_you: And saying "See, there is probably 1-2 million people you can see from this window. And not a single one of them GIVES ANY SHIT ABOUT YOU and your feelings."
16:10.32luke-jrmy wife trashed our microwave years ago
16:10.36rm_youlike the first time i fried an AT motherboard by plugging the wires in backwards
16:10.52MyrttiI want an inverter microwave
16:10.52rm_youor shocked myself on a power supply that wasn't drained properly before attempting to repair it
16:11.04luke-jrRST38h: where was this window that you can see 2 million people from it?
16:11.08rm_youRST38h: rofl. win
16:11.21RST38hluke-jr: Moscow. 15mil total population (estimated)
16:11.22luke-jrrm_you: meh, who's scared of a little shock?
16:11.36rm_youluke-jr: well, me, *now*
16:11.43luke-jrI used to electrocute myself with AC for fun
16:11.55crashanddieair conditioning? cool
16:11.59rm_youlol
16:12.00luke-jrAC power, idiot
16:12.01RST38hLiving dangerously? =)
16:12.07crashanddieanonymous coward power?
16:12.30luke-jrbuilding up immunity for the inevitable electrocution? :P
16:12.30rm_youAir Conditioning is usually written A/C for some reason
16:12.31javispedrohm... anonymous coward power...
16:12.32rm_younot sure why
16:12.50luke-jrAlternating Current, in case you really don't know...
16:12.51RST38hhad burns for three months after trying to fix an oscilloscope power plug, without unplugging the other end of the cable
16:12.59luke-jrRST38h: O.o
16:13.01rm_youheh
16:13.01crashanddieif slashdot could harness AC power they'd never have to pay for energy bills ever again
16:13.12luke-jrRST38h: perhaps my power source was filtered in some way
16:13.15rm_youcrashanddie: lol
16:13.29luke-jrit was the two knobs at the top of an electronics kit...
16:13.35luke-jrI'd attach wires to them
16:13.43luke-jrthen lick my fingers and grab the wire ends
16:13.56rm_youyeah, though i think the charge in the transformer in like, a CRT monitor for instance, is way more dangerous than just the average AC outlet
16:13.57luke-jrI suppose the wire gagues might have limited current
16:13.58crashanddie"oh, we're losing power, quick, release an article about ${OS}" (where ${OS} equals Linux/OSX/Windows)
16:14.01RST38hluke-jr: You may have had a low-current protection installed
16:14.27lcukor hes composed entirely of playdoh
16:14.36rm_youit's amperage that can actually kill you, not voltage, right?
16:14.37RST38hgoood idea
16:14.45crashanddierm_you: correct
16:14.54RST38hrm_you: yes, except that given the same resistance, twice the voltage will give twice the amperage
16:15.01rm_youwants to be an engineer. sometimes. usually weekends after payday.
16:15.07RST38hrm_you: luke probably had 110V, I had 220V :)
16:15.14luke-jrheh
16:15.23luke-jryeah, 110 I imagine
16:15.37RST38hIf you want to be really wikipedian, you should also take into account the power source characteristics
16:15.52crashanddiewho on earth really wants to be a wikipedian?
16:15.54RST38hBut we can safely ignore that with plain vanilla power outlets
16:15.55javispedroso, does being an engineer imply some electrocutions, or does having an electrocution imply being an engineer someday?
16:15.57rm_yougah gotta run to lunch
16:16.10crashanddiejavispedro: neither
16:16.18rm_youi'd guess the former
16:16.24RST38hjavis: Depends on which engineer you wanna be
16:16.30rm_youthe latter would make for a better joke tho :P
16:16.33rm_youanywho, i'm out
16:16.35rm_youbbl
16:16.39javispedro:)
16:16.41RST38hjavis: Civil engineering implies being crushed under some heavy duty solids
16:16.58RST38hjavis: Electrical engineering implies soldering iron burns and some electrocution
16:17.10RST38hjavis: Nuclear engineering ... well you get my drift
16:17.18javispedrolol.
16:17.33RST38hsuddenly thinks of Social Engineering
16:17.51javispedrodid too.
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16:26.48crashanddieRST38h: nuclear engineer problably means you'll never talk about it with your kids
16:27.45RST38hcrashanddie: surprisingly, not
16:28.24*** join/#maemo fab_ (n=bellet@bellet.info)
16:28.29RST38hcrashanddie: there was an epic thread once, with a physicist dealing with nuclear non-proliferation explaining to forum geeks how A-bomb works. In detail.
16:28.54RST38hcrashanddie: most of this stuff is not secret any more, you just need to read a proper book
16:29.51crashanddieand software engineer probably means that you will start dating not based on looks or attraction, but more probably simply because the number of prospects is starting to get slimmer by the year
16:30.16RST38hyou start dating in software, over the internet? ;)
16:30.31crashanddieactually, technically speaking, at the moment I'm having a phone affair
16:31.19RST38hsee?
16:31.38RST38hswitch her to tcp/ip to lower costs!
16:31.57crashanddieRST38h: oh we're unlimited, no problem there ;)
16:32.07RST38hhehehe
16:38.40*** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=CBabbage@uhartford236105.hartford.edu)
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16:44.11jrochalizardo, hi
16:45.13*** join/#maemo arp (n=arp@85.225.220.13)
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17:05.50*** join/#maemo genewitch (n=genewitc@cpe-66-74-148-66.socal.res.rr.com)
17:06.02*** join/#maemo Mousey (n=wtfisme@ross154.net)
17:06.32genewitchis there a way to tell the RSS feed reader app that i don't want it to update, refresh, download, or otherwise use 100% of the CPU while i am actually reading the feeds?
17:06.47javispedroKill Wi-Fi.,
17:07.09genewitchthen it just pops up a window to connect
17:08.12*** join/#maemo setanta (n=setanta@200.184.118.130)
17:08.27*** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@stgt-5f709e31.pool.mediaWays.net)
17:08.54genewitchand having it manually update completely breaks the functionality of an RSS feed reader.
17:09.06genewitchnot to mention i have to wait the 2 minutes while it updates
17:10.56mgedmindoes the RSS reader still expire all unread posts when it auto-refreshes, or was that fixed?
17:11.01lizardojrocha: hi
17:11.15genewitchmgedmin: it retains older ones
17:11.21mgedminoh, good
17:11.27genewitchi don't know how many it keeps, it drops older ones off eventually
17:11.28jrochalizardo, I'm gonna bother you more on the gtk.HILDON_SIZE_FINGER_BUTTON
17:11.29jrocha:)
17:12.03*** join/#maemo flavioribeiro (n=flavio@187.64.55.24)
17:12.14jrochalizardo, I gotta do the following: hildon.Button((gtk.HILDON_SIZE_FINGER_HEIGHT, hildon.BUTTON_ARRANGEMENT_VERTICAL)
17:12.17lizardojrocha: if I can help :)
17:12.20jrochaand while this works
17:12.26jrochait is ugly
17:12.42jrochanow, I understand that the size is implemented on the gtk part
17:13.13jrochabut I really think you should consider overriding this behavior so we have: hildon.SIZE_FINGER_HEIGHT
17:13.31jrochait just makes more sense to people used to work with PyGTK
17:13.35jrochaimho of course :)
17:14.43jrochalizardo, what are your thought on this, cara? :)
17:14.45lizardojrocha: while I agree it makes sense, let me try to show you the other way.... the first argument are somethings like "Gtk sizes for Hildon" the seconde is just arrangement for hildon buttons)
17:15.24lizardojrocha: so gtk-enums has sizes for other things that are not just Hildon...
17:15.38lizardojrocha: there must be some reason why they put it on gtk-enums on the first place
17:15.52lizardoand not on something like "hildon-enums.h"...
17:16.01jrochalizardo, hmm, I see
17:16.08lizardoso I *think* this is because you can use these sizes with gtk widgets too
17:16.42genewitchi certainly hope the n900  + maemo 5 handle such things as the RSS feed reader being responsive... and web pages.
17:16.46lizardojrocha: and not use hildon at all, but still have hildon sized widgets for your gtk app
17:17.11jrochalizardo, that seems understandable, yet weird
17:17.49jrochalizardo, because even if one wants to use a hildon size, they should get it from hildon thinking theoretically
17:17.59crashanddielmao
17:18.04crashanddieI just unleashed my bullshit generator
17:18.18crashanddieI was asked by my boss to justify why I need to spend 2 weeks in the US
17:18.26AStormjrocha: no, that would only add porting burden
17:18.26jrochalizardo, about hildon implementing it that way, maybe it was for convenience (more easy to assign sizes this way)
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17:18.43lizardojrocha: yes, but in this case, the application would depend on any hildon libs (although the changes to gtk-enums.h are only on Maemo? not sure)
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17:19.45jrochalizardo, so, the case would be that one maybe wants to use hildon sizes where they don't have hildon libs available? seems weird
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17:20.07lizardojrocha: anyway, the reasoning behind it is : there are various Gtk sizes (that can be used anywhere were you want those sizes and not use hardcoded constants), the hildon sizes just happen to be some of them
17:20.24jrochalizardo, yes
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17:20.57jrochalizardo, and it is easy to use, I was just discussing whether it makes sense or not
17:22.29lizardojrocha: I'm no gtk programmer :( but I think this can be asked on the Hildon mailing list , if they have some reasoning, the same would apply for the binding... but if you look at a C code, you would ask the same question: why GTK_HILDON_SIZE_FINGER_HEIGHT and not HILDON_GTK_SIZE_FINGER_HEIGHT ?)
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17:25.24genewitchwouldn't it be because GTK is the base library and hildon is just a library that happens to use GTK?
17:25.48crashanddielizardo: so that people would actually start using IDEs with code completion
17:25.57jrocha_berto_, any comments on this?
17:26.48lizardocrashanddie: well, you can use code completion for hildon things too , I suppose :)
17:27.05_berto_it's HILDON_SIZE_FINGER_SIZE
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17:27.26_berto_and that enum wasn't originally meant to be in gtk
17:27.32_berto_but we had to move it
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17:28.05lizardo_berto_: hmm, that might change the reasoning I was explainer before :)
17:28.12lizardoexplaining*
17:28.42_berto_when we move people were already using it, so we had to keep the values
17:29.13lizardo_berto_: so, just to makes things clear: HILDON_SIZE_FINGER_SIZE is a hildon specific thing, but kept in gtk-enums.h only for historical reasons?
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17:29.54_berto_lizardo: not for historial reasons, but also because it's used in maemo-gtk
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17:30.34_berto_it could have been named HILDON_GTK_... if that's what you ask
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17:31.03lizardo_berto_: no no, we were discussing how to have it in python
17:31.10_berto_ah
17:31.12_berto_:)
17:31.16lizardo_berto_: as part of the "gtk" module or of the "hildon"  module
17:31.33jrocha_berto_, I was telling them that imo it should be hildon's
17:31.43_berto_jrocha: it's part of maemo-gtk actually
17:31.48_berto_it's used in maemo-gtk
17:31.53lizardo_berto_: because as it was in gtk-enums.h it seemed "logical"  to have it in the gtk module
17:31.54_berto_and the api is in maemo-gtk
17:32.10_berto_yes, maemo-gtk has a few things specific to maemo
17:32.19_berto_this is one of them
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17:32.30_berto_there's also the tap-and-hold signal, etc
17:32.32lizardo_berto_: I wonder where is this maemo-gtk project? I could find it only at stage.maemo.org
17:32.57_berto_lizardo: yes, that's the official repo
17:33.28lizardo_berto_: but is it part of the official diablo/fremantle releases, or a community project?
17:33.37_berto_lizardo: it's official
17:33.45_berto_lizardo: it's the branch of gtk that comes with maemo
17:34.12lizardo_berto_: hmm, I see, so the gtk we have on the devices come from this maemo-gtk branch?
17:34.26jrochayes, everytime you "import gtk"
17:34.45_berto_yes
17:34.50_berto_(sorry, telephone)
17:35.02wazdhehe. sometimes to know English is so cool :)
17:35.05lizardo_berto_, jrocha : in this case , maybe having the HILDON_SIZE_* symbols in gtk still makes sence, if you think that we are actually talking about maemo-gtk ... IMHO
17:35.39lizardogiven that it is part of the maemo-gtk API and not on the Hildon API
17:35.42wazdI have a neighbour from GB, he tried to tell me that the elevator is not working in russian
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17:36.05javispedro"The browser is Mozilla’s Fennec Fox, but in future, users will have the options to use firefox on their N900." sigh.
17:36.08_berto_lizardo: well, we try to keep maemo-gtk as close to upstream gtk as possible
17:36.25_berto_lizardo: but a few things have to be changed
17:36.30jrochalizardo, well, now that we know the whole story, it makes sense, from the implementation part
17:36.41wazdWhen I said "You can speak English" his face showed sch a relief :D
17:36.50lizardojrocha: note that I not completely sold on this , but what I need to avoid is having inconsistences between what we provide as gtk/hildon modules and how the actual underlying API is...
17:37.01ShadowJKdiscovers diablo's "hung app" protection is broken
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17:37.26lizardo"I need" -> "We need"  :)
17:37.39jrochalizardo, of couse
17:37.41jrochacourse*
17:37.46jrochalizardo,  I understand
17:37.48_berto_lizardo: understood
17:37.51_berto_:)
17:37.52ShadowJKI manually stopped a game by sending it the STOP signal. The hildon UI hung. No "blah blah not responding" dialog appeared even after 10 minutes
17:38.16ShadowJKlogged in through ssh and sent -CONT to the game, and everything came back to life
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17:39.04jrochalizardo, my suggestions were only because when I code with Hildon, I don't really know where does the HILDON_SIZE... comes from but on Python it seemed to cripple the reading, when one sees: gtk.HILDON_SIZE...
17:39.28jrochalizardo, but now that I understand the whole story it's okay, and I won't bug you anymore :)
17:39.41lizardojrocha: yeah , it is a namespace issue , I would say :)
17:40.08lizardojrocha: because in C you don't have namespaces, so everything you #include is kind of global :)
17:40.27jrochalizardo, yes
17:40.42lizardojrocha: if that helps, you could use from gtk import HILDON_SIZE...
17:40.51jrochalizardo, last line of "import this": Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those! :D
17:40.55lizardojrocha: would even make some calls smaller :)
17:41.22jrochalizardo, I know how to manipulate the imports, but of course, that's not a good practice
17:41.51jrochaif I import * from gtk and then use a Button... who knows where the hell that button comes from
17:42.38lizardojrocha: well, I tend to use some from ... import ... where the code becomes easier to read :) (following the Python zen)
17:42.47jrochaand we should not mess with Python's readability or else Guido is summoned by the interpreter and punches you in the nose :)
17:43.18lizardojrocha: "from import *" is like using C's #include ... IMHO :)
17:44.40jrochalizardo, I use from  import * mainly when I refer to a module of mine
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17:45.23jrochaand I know it ain't like I'm gonna have a Button class lying around
17:45.28lizardojrocha: I agree, makes sense when you are splitting code into different files for modularity
17:45.58jrochaalright, back to work, nice to talk with you and finally get this issue clarified
17:46.21lizardojrocha: but using from gtk import XXX where XXX is a list of some specific often used symbols does not hurt IMHO :)
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17:46.50lizardojrocha: ok, feel free to ask other python specific question on #pymaemo too, its too quiet there
17:47.36Macerugh
17:47.42Macerandroid sucks so badly
17:47.49Maceri need an n900
17:47.55javispedrowho doesn't :)
17:48.10javispedroand why does everybody keep insisting it does have a compass? :P
17:48.11SpeedEvilI don't. I need two!
17:48.19SpeedEviljavispedro: It helps with AR apps
17:48.19Maceri need to take this g1 and run it over with a car
17:48.40SpeedEviljavispedro: If you know exactly which way you're pointing, and where you are - you know what's in front of you
17:48.41javispedroSpeedEvil: which I consider a fad. But even then, it does _not_ have one :P
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17:49.02SpeedEviljavispedro: especially handy - IMO - for geotagged photos - for example for openstreetmap
17:49.12SpeedEvilBut - that is probably admittedly a niche use.
17:49.20GeneralAntillesMacer, I though you loved Android.
17:49.30javispedroSpeedEvil: but that is one useful use.
17:49.33javispedro:)
17:49.36MacerGeneralAntilles: android itself is ok
17:49.40Macerthe apps suck
17:49.43Macerthen again
17:49.47Macerandroid sucks
17:49.49Macerheh
17:50.02Macerusing maemo4 is a much better experience
17:50.04SpeedEviljavispedro: AR - ... There are few compelling apps yet.
17:50.05SpeedEvilNone?
17:50.17Maceri wish i could get maemo5 on the g1
17:50.24Macerthat would be so awesome
17:50.51Macerit would be like a poor man's n900
17:50.57javispedroSpeedEvil: and even then, I don't see neither myself nor my parents nor my grandma using that.
17:51.25SpeedEviljavispedro: The killer app hasn't really arrived.
17:51.38SpeedEviljavispedro: It would clearly be good for tourist map type stuff
17:51.44Maceryou have tp wait for the n900gs
17:51.44ShadowJKI want a gyro!
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17:51.49Macerfor the compass
17:52.02ShadowJKN900i ;)
17:52.05MacerShadowJK:  get one then
17:52.11Macerheh
17:52.13javispedrothe risk of me being run over by a car is already way too high just with the gps
17:52.15ShadowJKMacer, I mean I want 4 of them, in the device
17:52.22Maceroh
17:52.24SpeedEviljavispedro: this is why you need AR.
17:52.30Macerthought you meant the food
17:52.37SpeedEvil'STOP LOOKING AT ME - RUN!'
17:52.39ShadowJKthere's a good called gyro?
17:52.42Macer;)
17:52.47ShadowJKa food*
17:52.53SpeedEvilGyroscope
17:53.03Macercompass rotates maps also doesnt it?
17:53.05GeneralAntillesMacer, no way it'll fit in less than 640x480.
17:53.07SpeedEvilsilicon chip gyros are expensive
17:53.17SpeedEvilmaybe $15 for 3 axis in volume
17:53.24MacerGeneralAntilles: maemo5?
17:53.28SpeedEvilCompared to $.8 maybe for the accellerometer
17:53.28Macerreally?
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17:53.32GeneralAntillesYeah
17:53.39GeneralAntillesNot in its current state, anyway.
17:53.43Macerneeds that high of a res?
17:53.44Macerheh
17:53.48SpeedEvil(and maybe $3 for compasses)
17:53.51GeneralAntillesI'm sure somebody could brow beat it, but it likely wouldn't work well.
17:53.52javispedrowere to choose, I would select the compass instead of the gyro
17:53.53MacerGeneralAntilles: doesnt matter
17:54.02ShadowJKgyro+accelerometers would be perfect for stabilising and augmenting the dodgy data you get from gps&compass though
17:54.09Macerg1 will never see maemo5 on it
17:54.11ShadowJKjavispedro, oh I want both compass and gyros
17:54.18SpeedEvilShadowJK: yeah - gyro will drop in price though
17:54.29ShadowJKand accel, and gps
17:54.31javispedroShadowJK: I want a 24 hour battery.
17:54.36SpeedEvilShadowJK: it's starting to see the sort of exponential price drop you saw with accelerometers.
17:54.39ShadowJKShadowJK, I have one
17:54.41ShadowJKuh
17:54.43ShadowJKjavispedro, I have one
17:54.48GeneralAntillesI WANT A CAKE PONY!
17:54.50javispedro:P :)
17:54.55SpeedEvilWhich now they're sprayed into everything get cheaper.
17:54.57ShadowJKjavispedro, unfortunately it's installed in my car!
17:55.22SpeedEviljavispedro: Remove it, and place in backpack
17:55.30SpeedEviljavispedro: Voila - days of active use.
17:55.31Macerhaha
17:55.45javispedrobah :P
17:55.57Macernothing beats going to the suit case era
17:56.05ShadowJKYou could use the accel to detect when user has put phone down on table or wherever, and when it's still, you can get an accurate-ish compass reading, and accurate-ish reading from accelerometers to determine your direction, and calibrate gyros to that
17:56.24javispedrodoesn't the compass need calibration too?
17:56.31SpeedEvilShadowJK: yeah - this is all nice - but you _still_ can't do inertial navigation very well.
17:56.37Stskeepsindications you're not using enough time with the wife: she starts faking extreme power surges with the living room lamp
17:56.39javispedroinstead of entering power save, it would enter power hungry mode.
17:56.53ShadowJKSpeedEvil, I don't want to do inertial navigation
17:57.03MacerStskeeps: huh?
17:57.04SpeedEvilShadowJK: Why not - it's cool!
17:57.11ShadowJKSpeedEvil, well, I do, but only for a second at a time
17:57.24Macershe didnt really do that did she?
17:57.24ShadowJKin between gps updates basically
17:57.29SpeedEvilShadowJK: yeah - it'd be so nice if you could get free of GPS - from indoors
17:57.39MacerStskeeps:  arebt you still a newlywed?
17:57.48StskeepsMacer: sure, month day today :P
17:58.00Maceryou should still be having sex every 5 minutes
17:58.13Macerget off the computer crap and go have sex
17:58.21ShadowJKSpeedEvil, I doubt it'd be accurate enough to answer "am I still inside the building?" with 50% confidence for more than a few minutes :)
17:58.28SpeedEvilShadowJK: it's not.
17:58.40SpeedEvilShadowJK: Of the order of a centimeter a second a second error
17:58.56ShadowJKYeah, for indoor positioning we need UWB or the magic pony-GPS luke was talking about
17:59.07SpeedEvilOr image processing
17:59.16ShadowJKugh
17:59.19aolwlan positioning
17:59.20SpeedEvilWhich is horrible
17:59.27SpeedEvilBut just about doable
17:59.32ShadowJKcellphone bill for my stay in germany just dropped in. 200Euro :-(
17:59.37SpeedEvil:/
18:00.35ShadowJK60 megs of data :)
18:01.42SpeedEvilYou were there half an hour?
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18:11.05ShadowJKSpeedEvil, 10 days
18:11.10ShadowJKthat's 6 megabytes of intarwebs a day!
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18:37.31Robot101where does the hildon theme that comes with the sdk live?
18:38.30fiferboy/usr/share/themes/Default/
18:39.14Robot101I mean, its source or repo or whatever
18:41.50SpeedEvilShadowJK: you diddn't get a german SIM - or are the german rates that bad?
18:42.19fiferboyRobot101: hildon-theme-alpha is the package name, I think
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18:43.15fiferboyHmm, maybe alpha is a different one.  I'm not sure if the theme is available anywhere as a package,
18:43.27fiferboyEverything you need should be in /usr/share/themes/Default though
18:43.58qwerty12_N810The theme isn't free like Plankton was in Diablo
18:44.20qwerty12_N810and I can't see it in non-free so I'm guessing it's in nokia-binaries
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19:03.42jrochalizardo, hi again
19:04.40jrochalizardo, how can use a HildonFileChooserDialog?
19:05.11lizardojrocha: ok, you are hitting the "non-documented"  edges of python-hildon :)
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19:05.42lizardojrocha: you need to pass it a filesystem model, let me find the usage example:
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19:05.44jrochalizardo, I think it is very common to want to use a file chooser :)
19:06.23jrochaI C hildon I only need to arguments but the python one keeps asking me for 3 args
19:06.31lizardojrocha: take a look at : https://garage.maemo.org/svn/pymaemo/packages/python-hildon/trunk/tests/test_hildon_file_chooser_dialog.py
19:07.13jrochaoh, ok
19:07.15jrochanice
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19:07.33lizardojrocha: yes, but in C you must pass a model too, I think in the constructor
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19:07.53lizardojrocha: I tried it in C, I remember it asserted somewhere
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19:08.11jrochaprobably
19:08.21jrochaanyway, I'll check that, so
19:08.31jrochathanks
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19:10.16lizardojrocha: no prob :) just to let you know, regarding file chooser, I had a hard time implementing support for it because the API docs didn't mention the file system model is required in fremantle (IIRC)
19:10.41lizardojrocha: so I had to dig some API usage examples to find the correct usage :)
19:10.56lizardojrocha: in C, I mean
19:10.59jrochalizardo, yes, the file chooser can be a little obscure
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19:45.26thphow do I add a button to the titlebar of a window in fremantle?
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19:46.51RST38hyou can't, can you?
19:47.12thpi think i've seen screenshots where there was a button in the titlebar
19:48.51thpI've found the thread.. http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg19687.html
19:50.18thplooks like it's a dirty hack ;)
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20:25.54oocan someone PLEASE help me run a simple HelloMIDlet in maemo?
20:26.36ooalready tried jalimo/cacao/midpath/phoneme but no suceess running a cldc midp software
20:27.12MrGooseoo: you sound desperate
20:27.58MrGooseoo: I cant help though; not my know how
20:27.59oojust a little frustrated
20:28.11oonvm thanks anyway xD
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20:33.08johnsqHi
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20:44.20PinkKroliczeKsorry
20:44.35PinkKroliczeKsome can help me with b-man sources list?
20:51.07*** join/#maemo Shapeshifter (n=Shape@saskatoon.icu.uzh.ch)
20:51.18ShapeshifterMhh. The N900 looks really sweet.
20:51.28Shapeshifterreally, really sweet.
20:51.44PinkKroliczeKWho can help me with my n810 here maybe?
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20:54.41javispedrohm. people already dumping their n810s in ebay
20:55.00javispedromight as well get another one and hang it on the wall ;P
20:55.09qwerty12_N810Obviously not into Mer, then :>
20:55.22johnsqjavispedro: why? its usable for too much things, if cheap
20:55.57javispedroI'm serious with haging it on the wall, then leave it as a p2p machine, router, or always on server
20:56.21ShapeshifterI never had a proper phone, using a 10 buck LG that can do SMS >.> I think I want one. I'm wondering what kind of phone. Not an iphone, and no windows. Looked at the HTC hero, looks better now with the updated rom. But should I wait for an N900?
20:56.24johnsqphotoframe, file server ...
20:56.32ShapeshifterI bet it's going to be ages until it comes to Switzerland -.-
20:57.13PinkKroliczeKjavispedro: i like my 810 :)
20:57.45javispedroyeah. couldn't live without it right now. :)
20:58.05PinkKroliczeKjust for call i use inq for me is verry good :>
20:59.07javispedrowhy does everybody use the n800 as a dev board?
20:59.15Shapeshiftermhhh... how long does the battery go on an 810?
20:59.21Shapeshiftersays here 10 days
20:59.23Shapeshifterthat would be amazing
20:59.34javispedroI'm looking at some of the ARM RVCT propaganda and they have a photo with a bastardized n800
20:59.50javispedroplus the vmware demo not too much ago
21:00.04johnsqShapeshifter: but without use only standby
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21:01.35javispedrohas still some hopes for the 3d n8x0 driver... i want to code something in ogles1
21:02.19PinkKroliczeKShapeshifter: when you dont use alot yes aprox 9-10days
21:02.38Shapeshifternice.
21:03.10ksysioi use this only when i`m in work :>
21:03.32ksysiohaha but now i`m unemployed :D
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21:19.20GeneralAntillesGoddamnit
21:19.28GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N810, I confused easyroot and rootsh again.
21:19.52*** join/#maemo esaym153 (n=esaym153@cpe-24-174-186-34.satx.res.rr.com)
21:20.40qwerty12_N810:)
21:21.17GeneralAntillesI'm just going to set up a text expansion so that easyroot is always replaced with rootsh whenever I try to type it.
21:21.45GeneralAntillesWhy do people ask questions like, "why does everyone say I don't want to use it (how do you know??),"
21:22.06GeneralAntillesTechnical people usually have a good idea of where and how normal people are going to get themselves in trouble.
21:22.38javispedroand the sniff that just by how you write your first question.... most of the time :P
21:22.43javispedros/the/they/
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21:23.43GeneralAntilleslol . . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-WniM2KO-E
21:23.45GeneralAntillesComment 1
21:23.50AStormha, ha, ha
21:23.51GeneralAntillesYouTube comments are the best.
21:24.03AStormI found the best resampler to use on maemo yet
21:24.07AStormthe one in latest Sox.
21:24.14javispedro........
21:24.19AStormwill rewrite it in DSP later.
21:24.20GeneralAntillesI'm going to sign in just to thumb that comment.
21:24.58AStormthat resampler is very simd-compatible
21:25.24acoutojavispedro, again, sorry i fell, my internet is bad
21:25.36GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to buy Tim a teleprompter.
21:25.55acoutojavispedro, are you there?
21:25.57frals<GeneralAntilles> Technical people usually have a good idea of where and how normal people are going to get themselves in trouble. <- According to my course I'm reading at uni atm this isn't really true :)
21:26.01javispedroacouto: yes.
21:26.38fralson the other hand all this human-computer-interaction sounds like a lot of guessing and assumptions.. :P
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21:26.44GeneralAntillesfrals, I should probably clarify. They know if a user is asking why they need R&D mode then they definitely don't need. ;)
21:27.00GeneralAntillesNot that an engineer can predict where failure points are going to be.
21:27.11fralsRight, makes more sense :)
21:27.31fralsAnd I can agree with that ;)
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21:30.37acoutojavispedro, about the compile the gps example.. So i compiled with pkg-config, but when i execute in n810 appear a error "./example_gps: line 1: syntax error: "(" unexpected"
21:32.19javispedroacouto, wha? why don't you do a "head -n 1 example_gps" and tell me what you see
21:32.21javispedro?
21:34.10acoutojavispedro, sorry but i didnt understand
21:34.41javispedrorun "head -n 1 example_gps" on your tablet
21:35.25Firebirdhm, is there such a thing as an OpenGL based web browser?
21:36.05GeneralAntillesFirebird, yes.
21:36.11GeneralAntillesThe first one is from, like 1998.
21:36.23Firebirdhow about, recent and actively developed
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21:36.57GeneralAntillesFirebird, probably, but I don't know off-hand.
21:37.01acoutojavispedro, ok http://pastie.org/618052
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21:40.26acoutojavispedro, sorry i ran the compiled file http://pastie.org/61805
21:40.53*** join/#maemo smackpotato (n=user@bas1-toronto26-1279685932.dsl.bell.ca)
21:41.45smackpotatoanyone check out the jobs nokia is advertising at maemo.org
21:42.12smackpotatodon't they need anyone to mop the floors
21:43.41smackpotatowonders what kind of job I could get after not being employed since 1986
21:44.08RST38hUnemployment councillor?
21:44.23javispedroacouto: bad link. i tried to guess the missing number but other than someone's sensitive data couldn't find whatever you were trying to show me
21:44.40RST38hbrb
21:45.10smackpotatolol
21:45.15javispedroacouto: so please repaste
21:46.03acoutojavispedro, the original code?
21:46.27javispedrowhatever you tried to show me last.
21:47.05acoutojavispedro, ok just a minute
21:50.12*** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=CBabbage@uhartford236105.hartford.edu)
21:50.52acoutojavispedro, the code = (http://pastie.org/618062) the commands= (http://pastie.org/618067)
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21:51.56javispedroah yeah, I forgot
21:51.59javispedroit is a x86 binary
21:52.13javispedroacouto: DIABLO_X86 means you're creating binaries for x86, for your computer.
21:52.16javispedronot for your tablet.
21:52.33javispedroswitch to DIABLO_ARMEL, for example by typing "sb-menu".
21:52.40javispedrothen select then DIABLO_ARMEL.
21:52.55acoutojavispedro, ok ill switch the target
21:53.07acoutojavispedro, a moment
21:54.50acoutojavispedro, already
21:56.25acoutojavispedro, so i ll recompile the code and send to tablet
21:57.46*** part/#maemo EdLin (n=EdLin@securabit/listener/edlin)
21:58.23andre__yay. one week away, 250 new bugmail messages :)
21:58.35javispedrowb andre__ :)
21:58.56andre__thanks :)
22:00.37VDVsxandre__, puff, subscribe some threads on TMO and you'll see ;)
22:00.57VDVsxandre__, btw, wb ;)
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22:01.43acoutojavispedro, appeared a new erro, it didnt find the gpsbt.h   (http://pastie.org/618080)
22:02.13javispedroacouto: because the _ARMEL and _X86 targets are separated, whatever you do on one you have to do on the other one.
22:02.44javispedroacouto: so apt-get install libgpsbt-dev, osso-gpsd-dev, etc
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22:12.56johnsqthe archos 5 internet tablet looks good
22:13.07javispedroyeah, and the GUI fremantleish
22:13.22javispedrowith that black title bar with "back" button
22:13.40johnsqgood stolen is better than bad new
22:14.29acoutojavispedro, i have an compiled but now appeared just w)arning (http://pastie.org/618099
22:15.51javispedroacouto: and the compiler is probably right, but for now it's harmless.
22:17.39*** join/#maemo n6pfk (n=mike@96.238.186.191)
22:20.06acoutojavispedro, but in this case, the program not run  ( http://pastie.org/618107 )
22:20.40javispedroah well, and I'm going to bed
22:21.09acoutojavispedro, hehe ok... thanks for help me
22:21.29acoutojavispedro, :)
22:21.30javispedronp
22:22.00acouto:)
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22:24.37pupnik_javispedro seen drpocketsnes port to iphone?  arm optimizations by zodttd
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