| 00:00.22 | wazd_ | again, software was awful |
| 00:00.37 | wazd_ | you can't sell a phone that has almost no software :) |
| 00:00.40 | zerojay | Yeah...they weren't very good at software. |
| 00:00.58 | wazd_ | even nokia's s300 was more stable and functionaly wise |
| 00:01.04 | wazd_ | s30* |
| 00:01.19 | JoeBrain | lol yeah |
| 00:01.42 | JoeBrain | Its funny they didnt figure it out even immediately when the iPhone was released |
| 00:01.46 | wazd_ | pebl was awesome, one of the phones that I just wanted with raw feeling :) |
| 00:02.16 | wazd_ | but I was too young to buy such an expensive toy :) |
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| 00:03.21 | zerojay | JoeBrain: Moto was dead long before Apple even thought of bringing the iPhone out. |
| 00:03.49 | JoeBrain | no argument here |
| 00:04.02 | JoeBrain | but by they I include the other OEMs |
| 00:04.52 | wazd_ | moto even had it's own linux platform, but again got it wrong way |
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| 00:07.34 | rektide | even android doesnt know whether it wants to be a flexible linux platform or a phone platform |
| 00:07.50 | rektide | maemo is definitely the best in that regard |
| 00:08.05 | zerojay | I wouldn't call Android flexible whatsoever. |
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| 00:08.22 | zerojay | Android's pretty much one step away from being just as locked down as iPhone really. |
| 00:09.48 | ShellEvil | There is a wide view of what's locked down though. |
| 00:09.52 | fiferboy_ | timeless_mbp: countdown-home 0.4-5 (with localized date and time) should be in extras-devel now :) |
| 00:10.15 | ShellEvil | From 'As long as one core runs non-free code' all the way up to rational people, and through 'But I can install games' |
| 00:10.51 | wazd_ | fiferboy: insomnia? :D |
| 00:12.52 | fiferboy_ | wazd_: It's 8 PM :P |
| 00:12.59 | fiferboy_ | wazd_: What's your excuse? |
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| 00:13.16 | JoeBrain | As locked down vs. usability though :\ |
| 00:13.24 | wazd_ | fiferboy: well, deadline :) |
| 00:13.35 | fiferboy_ | wazd_: Ah, understandable |
| 00:13.40 | JoeBrain | I mean I understand the downside & upsides of flexibility, but if I'm only going to own ONE device at a time |
| 00:14.25 | Midlet- | i dont know if this is the correct channel to ask this in but is it possible to make an internet connection without notifying the user , i know its impossible in python s60, i dont know about j2me yet, if also no is it possible in c++ ? |
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| 00:32.54 | ShellEvil | On what platform? |
| 00:33.06 | ShellEvil | Personally - if yes - that's a bug. |
| 00:34.02 | eichi | hello guys. can i install the bootloader with the flasher too? |
| 00:34.27 | wazd_ | Midlet-: Are you trying to write some sneaky virus or something? :) |
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| 00:37.05 | Midlet- | wazd_ no everything that sounds mallicious is mallicious im just a researching |
| 00:37.07 | Midlet- | :) |
| 00:37.20 | Midlet- | s/a//g |
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| 00:37.24 | eichi | sorry, i mean the bootmenu |
| 00:44.59 | zerojay | Midlet-: You would see the icon at the top of the screen show you there's a connection underway. |
| 00:46.23 | Midlet- | zerojay i understand , but my question is something else |
| 00:46.55 | Midlet- | and ive found the answers |
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| 00:49.08 | JoeBrain | So does everyone have a nifty new Nokia tablet? :) |
| 00:49.33 | JoeBrain | Ah the N9000 isnt out yet :( |
| 00:49.39 | JoeBrain | 900* |
| 00:50.02 | wazd_ | JoeBrain: n9000 isn't for sure :D |
| 00:50.07 | JoeBrain | ;) |
| 00:51.30 | zerojay | lol |
| 00:51.38 | zerojay | Won't be long now. |
| 00:52.01 | SpeedEvil | It's not a tablet - it's a phone |
| 00:52.04 | SpeedEvil | or something |
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| 00:55.24 | JoeBrain | cellular tablet |
| 00:55.51 | JoeBrain | portable cellular tablet device assistant |
| 00:58.05 | Pio | portable cellular mobile tablet digital assistant device |
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| 00:58.25 | SpeedEvil | Get a powerful touch screen computer with excellent communications capabilities. |
| 00:58.31 | SpeedEvil | says the UK site |
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| 01:02.38 | JoeBrain | touch screen communication computer it is then.. |
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| 01:40.12 | ShadowJK | SpeedEvil: iirc a write the size of eraseblock on SD will always end up in just one eraseblock |
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| 01:45.02 | ShadowJK | javipedro: SD card has more blocks than it lets you know it has. iirc when you write to a block (whether it's full eraseblock_size size or smaller), it takes the next block from "unused" pool, erases and writes, puts the old block onto unused pool |
| 01:46.21 | ShellEvil | ShadowJK: I need to do more research |
| 01:46.48 | ShadowJK | so yeah, logcal blocks that never get overwritten aren't part of the wear leveling on SD at all |
| 01:47.23 | SpeedEvil | I'm more interested in the fragmented write case |
| 01:48.04 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: is this supposition - or are there actual details somewhere on schems? |
| 01:48.06 | SpeedEvil | es |
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| 01:50.09 | ShadowJK | the logfs author posted a description to lkml |
| 01:50.28 | ShadowJK | most SD implement "SmartMedia" |
| 01:52.10 | ShadowJK | http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org/msg170028.html |
| 01:52.12 | ShadowJK | enjoy |
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| 01:53.58 | zerojay | http://www.flickr.com/photos/qole2/3907797940/ :) |
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| 02:04.31 | GAN800 | yawns |
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| 02:05.24 | GAN800 | Too much driving today. |
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| 02:33.39 | zerojay | GAN800: Where to/from? |
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| 02:48.23 | GAN800 | zerojay, school to home to the Apple Store in Timbuktu to home to the airport to home. |
| 02:48.31 | GAN800 | Close to 400 miles. |
| 02:48.51 | GAN800 | But my G5 has now been sent back to the mothership. |
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| 02:52.59 | thux | GAN800: 400 miles? what kind of car? |
| 03:00.00 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:13.24 | GAN800 | thux, 2004 Camry 4-banger. |
| 03:13.49 | GAN800 | Only used about 60% of an 18.5 US gallon tank. |
| 03:14.14 | thux | then it was long drive :) |
| 03:14.32 | thux | i got toyota too |
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| 04:32.11 | timeless_mbp | grumbles |
| 04:32.18 | timeless_mbp | why can't i install gpodder? |
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| 04:33.09 | timeless_mbp | konttori: i can't install appinstaller |
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| 04:38.20 | Sudhir | Hello guys. Could someone help me to solve problem? I want to block internet access of some of my application in n810 for the timebeing, but do not with to uninstall those. Is there any way to do it? |
| 04:38.52 | timeless_mbp | as ipfw/ipchains would? |
| 04:40.14 | johnx | Sudhir, not easily. how familiar are you with linux firewalls? |
| 04:40.19 | Sudhir | timeless_mbp : isnt it at too low level? |
| 04:40.34 | Sudhir | not much, but I can learn very quickly. |
| 04:41.05 | Sudhir | johnx : can one use firewalls to block the internet access of only some of the applications? |
| 04:41.12 | johnx | Sudhir, timeless is right. iptables is the way it's done on linux. I don't really know of something else that would do the trick. |
| 04:41.28 | johnx | you can use iptables to block specific protocols |
| 04:41.50 | johnx | may I ask why you want to do this? |
| 04:42.42 | GAN800 | There's a scratch in the faceplate paint where I slide my thumb to scroll. :( |
| 04:42.46 | timeless_mbp | he wants to run windows :) |
| 04:43.07 | Sudhir | johnx : I am customizing my n810. I do not use all of the app all the time. so thought if i can write some script and then tell it i want to start or stop using so and so application. |
| 04:44.00 | johnx | so why do you want the apps running but unable to connect to the internet? |
| 04:44.55 | Sudhir | johnx: not running, just want to make sure that it does not get connected without my script allowing it. |
| 04:45.31 | johnx | so why not make sure it doesn't run at all? |
| 04:46.23 | johnx | so is this to meet some kind of security requirements? or to save battery power? |
| 04:47.11 | timeless_mbp | http://iptables-tutorial.frozentux.net/iptables-tutorial.html#USERLANDSTATES |
| 04:47.13 | GAN800 | Mer is going to take 2 years to become day-to-day usable, apparently. |
| 04:47.18 | timeless_mbp | "Owner match" |
| 04:47.29 | timeless_mbp | GAN800: depressed/ |
| 04:47.35 | johnx | timeless_mbp, that's pretty cool :) |
| 04:47.43 | johnx | GAN800, source of that? |
| 04:47.58 | GAN800 | Actually, that's a good question disguised as a troll. When IS it going to be a viable Diablo alternative? |
| 04:48.35 | GAN800 | johnx, random fool on Talk. Forgot the giant sarcasm tags. |
| 04:48.55 | timeless_mbp | has anyone categorized what's missing? |
| 04:48.58 | johnx | GAN800, we have an internal version that works perfectly, but when you troll we put off the release by a couple months |
| 04:49.05 | timeless_mbp | iirc it needs ~6 more control panel applets |
| 04:50.09 | GAN800 | I need buttons that work as expected plus reasonably similar out-of-box functionality. |
| 04:50.32 | timeless_mbp | goes back to changing the labels on all the buttons |
| 04:50.50 | GAN800 | Actually, I may need nm to die before I can use it. |
| 04:51.01 | johnx | GAN800, and be replaced with? |
| 04:51.01 | timeless_mbp | probably |
| 04:51.08 | timeless_mbp | johnx: a lump of coal |
| 04:51.15 | GAN800 | johnx, there's the rub. |
| 04:51.18 | timeless_mbp | slightly more reliable and easier to handle |
| 04:51.25 | GAN800 | Anything is better than nm. |
| 04:51.45 | timeless_mbp | we can probably write a ui using the toolkit i've used :) |
| 04:51.49 | GAN800 | I'd even settle for a dried dog turd. |
| 04:51.50 | timeless_mbp | it'd be better than nm |
| 04:52.04 | timeless_mbp | johnx: see, just like my lump of coal :) |
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| 04:53.32 | Stskeeps | morning |
| 04:53.58 | timeless_mbp | pokes Stskeeps |
| 04:54.27 | Stskeeps | needs coffee |
| 04:54.47 | timeless_mbp | needs feedback |
| 04:55.47 | Macer | hm |
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| 04:57.57 | LinuxCode | needs his proper inet+ phone line back |
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| 05:03.12 | User493 | hey if you guys are bored try facebook zombies game:D - http://apps.facebook.com/zombies/links.php?r=719927515&nref=st |
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| 05:14.30 | pupnik_ | http://www.imgtec.com/powervr/insider/sdk/KhronosOpenGLES2xSGX.asp useful? |
| 05:14.38 | johnx | so looks like that moto cliq thing might go for $0 w/ 2 year contract on t-mo |
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| 05:28.50 | pupnik_ | is that good? |
| 05:29.13 | pupnik_ | hey i just figured out how to get around the sgx texture-upload limitation for snes |
| 05:30.13 | johnx | well, it's what I was predicting google was trying to do from the onset: take over the dumb-phone market and then use economies of scale and cheaper ARM processors to break into the developing world markets where people have cell phones, not computers |
| 05:32.30 | johnx | I mean, they tied up the desktop search/email/video marketshare pretty well and are now just using it to take over other markets (picture sharing, etc) |
| 05:32.45 | johnx | but they have to be thinking "Where are the next billion google users going to come from?" |
| 05:32.58 | Stskeeps | china? :P india? :P |
| 05:33.03 | pupnik_ | since their revenue stream is based on eyeballs, that mases sense |
| 05:33.22 | johnx | hands Stskeeps a cookie :) |
| 05:33.31 | RST38h | "Any use of sub menus, beyond what fits in the 10 menu item slots in the View menu, should be avoided. Even just removing those menu commands that do not fit, should be considered. " |
| 05:33.34 | RST38h | facepalms |
| 05:33.40 | johnx | I bet cell phones heavily out number computers there though :) |
| 05:34.18 | johnx | RST38h, sub-sub menus :) |
| 05:34.44 | pupnik_ | easy solution RST38h - make one menu item do one of many things at random |
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| 05:35.28 | RST38h | BTW, can I have some crunchy eyeballs? |
| 05:35.38 | johnx | actually, something more similar to the mac os x/nextstep finder where you look through columns of stuff and double tap or press a seperate button to activate kind of makes sense |
| 05:35.42 | RST38h | pupnik: in sequence, yes |
| 05:35.43 | johnx | RST38h, sorry, all I've got is crispix |
| 05:35.56 | johnx | (which would make a good name for a breakfast-oriented unix clone) |
| 05:36.05 | RST38h | pupnik: Nth click initiates Nth action |
| 05:36.21 | johnx | RST38h, discriminates against users who can't count :P |
| 05:36.34 | pupnik_ | i thought you wanted to get revenge on the 10-item-limit people |
| 05:36.34 | RST38h | johnx: Fine with that =) |
| 05:36.44 | RST38h | BTW, there is an SCP item for that |
| 05:38.12 | RST38h | Here it is: http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-120 |
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| 05:38.41 | johnx | gotta take a second to really thank the people at Nokia who got us the open source finger keyboard example plugin open sourced :) |
| 05:38.47 | johnx | I owe some people a beer :D |
| 05:39.48 | RST38h | You made a new HIM plugin? |
| 05:40.00 | johnx | they did :) |
| 05:40.19 | RST38h | Translucent full screen finger keyboard? =) |
| 05:40.41 | johnx | RST38h, do the compositing yourself and you could probably have it semi-transparent |
| 05:40.47 | RST38h | hm |
| 05:40.50 | luke-jr | now when will Nokia start making/using realistic-to-type-on keyboards? :) |
| 05:40.54 | johnx | screenies: https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1356&action=view |
| 05:41.03 | johnx | link to source: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4178 |
| 05:41.20 | johnx | luke-jr, ever used a blackberry storm? |
| 05:41.24 | luke-jr | johnx: nope |
| 05:41.39 | RST38h | johnx: mm, this is not exactly what I meant... |
| 05:41.47 | johnx | luke-jr, turns out devices with no tactile feedback are waaaay better than devices with half-assed tactile feedback |
| 05:42.04 | luke-jr | johnx: ? |
| 05:42.26 | johnx | luke-jr, the storm's screen must be pressed in and physically clicks |
| 05:42.29 | johnx | it's all a big button |
| 05:42.36 | johnx | and it sucks |
| 05:42.38 | johnx | bad |
| 05:42.40 | luke-jr | ok? |
| 05:42.42 | luke-jr | and? |
| 05:42.59 | johnx | that was there attempt at realistic-to-type-on keyboards |
| 05:43.06 | RST38h | 4 big buttons really |
| 05:43.13 | luke-jr | johnx: fail |
| 05:43.16 | johnx | yes |
| 05:43.18 | RST38h | Blackberry sucks no matter what they do =( |
| 05:43.30 | luke-jr | I yet again refer you to the Zaurus SL-C* series |
| 05:43.34 | johnx | RST38h, that first one blew my mind :) |
| 05:43.47 | johnx | luke-jr, yup. even the SL-5x00 series was nice |
| 05:43.57 | RST38h | johnx: Yes, but it effectively obscures the application screen |
| 05:44.09 | RST38h | johnx: So, it is of limited use =( |
| 05:44.19 | johnx | RST38h, it's of great use in mer :) |
| 05:44.23 | RST38h | Ah |
| 05:44.29 | RST38h | Now I see =) |
| 05:44.39 | johnx | I am (*#&$ing thrilled. bouncing off the walls here :D |
| 05:44.56 | Stskeeps | especially since we've tried to get fremantle HIM working for a year, heh |
| 05:45.08 | luke-jr | johnx: but seriously, why nobody uses it in a modern handheld? |
| 05:45.31 | johnx | luke-jr, I have no idea. none at all. and remember how nice the d-pad was? |
| 05:45.40 | johnx | with the cancel right next to it and the center ok button? |
| 05:45.58 | luke-jr | johnx: what d-pad? |
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| 05:46.12 | johnx | did you have an SL-Cxx0 or Cxx00? |
| 05:46.17 | luke-jr | SL-C760 |
| 05:46.23 | luke-jr | sitting right in front of me |
| 05:46.23 | johnx | ah, so you had the arrow keys |
| 05:46.31 | luke-jr | booting |
| 05:46.33 | luke-jr | yes |
| 05:46.35 | johnx | check out a Cxx00 :) |
| 05:46.43 | johnx | gorgeous, awesome d-pad |
| 05:47.09 | Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: not sure about Add/Remove as it is only one type of content (apps) |
| 05:47.28 | timeless_mbp | nods |
| 05:48.05 | timeless_mbp | updating is not something you generally should reach through this entry point |
| 05:48.15 | timeless_mbp | updates should happen by getting a notification in the notification area |
| 05:48.47 | timeless_mbp | Pkg Mgr or Pkg Manager would probably be better |
| 05:48.55 | timeless_mbp | but i really don't like abbreviations |
| 05:48.56 | luke-jr | timeless_mbp: you don't happen to know why Nokia doesn't use a good hardware kb, do you? |
| 05:49.24 | timeless_mbp | i've only been in maemo devices for a couple of months |
| 05:49.24 | luke-jr | o |
| 05:49.31 | timeless_mbp | and i have yet to meet the people in procurement or hardware selection/design |
| 05:49.39 | Stskeeps | luke-jr: the devel units we saw were excellent hw kbs |
| 05:49.42 | Stskeeps | very nice to use |
| 05:49.42 | timeless_mbp | --- devices is a no unit |
| 05:49.49 | timeless_mbp | s/no/new/ |
| 05:49.54 | Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: Pkg Manager reminds me of http://s16.radikal.ru/i190/0909/fa/709f9ac844ef.png |
| 05:49.59 | luke-jr | Stskeeps: compared to Zaurus SL-C*? |
| 05:50.10 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: heh |
| 05:50.10 | Stskeeps | luke-jr: i absolutely hated n810 but loved this one |
| 05:50.18 | johnx | luke-jr, yup, the dev units that led to the N900 were much better than the n810 keyboard |
| 05:50.26 | timeless_mbp | luke-jr: fwiw, i was never a fan of the n810 keyboard |
| 05:50.28 | johnx | not all the way up to the C1000 keyboard though |
| 05:50.36 | timeless_mbp | the n900 keyboard doesn't bother me nearly as much |
| 05:50.37 | johnx | but much more compact, so I can't really blame them |
| 05:50.52 | timeless_mbp | i have switched to using the n900 as my primary phone (and secondary too actually) |
| 05:50.59 | *** join/#maemo Wikier (n=wikier@cm-staticIP-85-152-18-129.telecable.es) |
| 05:51.03 | johnx | In most cases (except IM/IRC/console) I'd take the n800 onscreen kb over the n810 physical keyboard |
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| 05:54.52 | Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: otherwise no complaints |
| 05:55.02 | timeless_mbp | you're using C right? |
| 05:55.06 | timeless_mbp | should tag this repo |
| 05:55.18 | Stskeeps | Benus |
| 05:55.19 | timeless_mbp | i haven't changed the desktop strings in that version (locally changed them today) |
| 05:55.22 | timeless_mbp | oh |
| 05:55.27 | timeless_mbp | well, there's a C :) |
| 05:55.34 | Stskeeps | well then |
| 05:56.01 | timeless_mbp | predictable naming :) |
| 05:56.21 | Stskeeps | not uploaded |
| 05:56.36 | timeless_mbp | hrm really? |
| 05:56.39 | timeless_mbp | grumbles |
| 05:56.50 | timeless_mbp | hrm |
| 05:56.56 | timeless_mbp | doesn't know where it'd be either |
| 05:57.01 | timeless_mbp | shut down mer |
| 05:57.30 | timeless_mbp | actually, no, sorry |
| 05:57.37 | timeless_mbp | you're right, B was the replacement for A :) |
| 05:57.42 | timeless_mbp | there will be a C :) |
| 05:58.01 | timeless_mbp | actually, i have someone who's starting to convert back for enGB |
| 05:58.08 | luke-jr | I like C. |
| 05:58.17 | timeless_mbp | i need to collect his non enGB corrections and fold them in |
| 05:58.33 | timeless_mbp | that of course is a royal pain |
| 05:59.22 | timeless_mbp | because it means at some point i need to delete the enus files in my repo, and ask my repo to copy the enGB files to enUS |
| 05:59.34 | *** join/#maemo alexga (n=alex@87.223.182.175) |
| 05:59.34 | timeless_mbp | should have done it earlier |
| 06:06.52 | *** join/#maemo jofjdi_ (n=jsherman@user-10lfcke.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 06:08.15 | Stskeeps | notes a kernel compile isn't as fun as it used to be |
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| 06:10.49 | johnx | Stskeeps, but they sure go faster these days :P |
| 06:11.11 | Stskeeps | i need to upgrade my working machine here really |
| 06:11.38 | Stskeeps | i don't have my laptop anymore as it was my previous employer's so, i'm on a 1.2ghz with 384mb ram, heh |
| 06:11.55 | johnx | ouch |
| 06:11.56 | *** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@net-85.nrpn.net) |
| 06:12.15 | johnx | I can post you 512MB of DDR1 |
| 06:12.16 | johnx | that'd be a start |
| 06:12.24 | Stskeeps | hehe, i do have some ram laying about |
| 06:12.31 | Stskeeps | i just haven't had time to upgrade the machine |
| 06:12.45 | johnx | but yeah, CPU/RAM/mobo combos are running ~$200 here to end up with a reasonably quick dual core AMD |
| 06:14.06 | Stskeeps | i |
| 06:14.15 | Stskeeps | 'll probably buy a new one over my company when time is :P |
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| 07:06.14 | L0cMini9 | re |
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| 07:22.43 | lardman | morning all |
| 07:23.12 | johnx | mornin' lardman |
| 07:23.44 | lardman | hey johnx, how's things? |
| 07:24.09 | johnx | pretty good. got stuff I want to play with, but broke my tools |
| 07:24.12 | johnx | business as usual :) |
| 07:24.15 | johnx | and you? |
| 07:25.49 | lardman | knackered |
| 07:26.01 | lardman | got in at 2am last night from London/OneDotZero |
| 07:26.21 | lardman | but otherwise not too bad :) |
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| 07:27.20 | aquatix | morning all |
| 07:27.39 | lardman | hey aquatix |
| 07:27.51 | johnx | lardman, was it worth it? |
| 07:28.49 | lardman | was cool, saw some of the guys from here and Jussi & Harri (not sure about the spelling there) |
| 07:29.23 | lardman | you still in Japan? |
| 07:29.43 | Myrtti | lardman: looks about right |
| 07:29.51 | Myrtti | (the spelling) |
| 07:29.56 | lardman | Myrtti: thanks :) |
| 07:30.54 | Stskeeps | yawns |
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| 07:34.08 | lardman | wonders why DAB radios are still being sold for >£100 |
| 07:36.29 | johnx | either 1) because people are still paying >£100 or 2) they really cost that much to make |
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| 07:42.58 | lardman_ | re |
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| 07:49.32 | lardman_ | also got to play with N900 at the interactive wall display :) |
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| 07:50.18 | Stskeeps | wow, UK actually apologized for their treatment of Turing |
| 07:50.26 | Stskeeps | http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page20571 |
| 07:51.03 | lardman_ | anything to distract attention from more immediate matters |
| 07:51.25 | Stskeeps | probably |
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| 07:54.28 | wazd | 'lo all |
| 07:54.32 | Stskeeps | lo wazd |
| 07:54.47 | lardman_ | hi wazd |
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| 07:55.45 | *** join/#maemo hendry (n=hendry@webvm.net) |
| 07:56.14 | hendry | i want to create a shortcut under the Extras menu. Could someone give me a clue where to look on the device FS? |
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| 08:05.29 | aol_ | does Maemo run Java Virtual Machine? What kind? Sun? |
| 08:05.59 | RST38h | aol: http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Getting_started_with_Java_on_maemo |
| 08:07.11 | *** join/#maemo khertan (i=d4eabb96@gateway/web/freenode/x-lvcgmuouzyjyvtok) |
| 08:07.14 | Stskeeps | lo khertan |
| 08:07.24 | khertan | Hello everyone ! |
| 08:08.08 | khertan | 'lo Stskeeps |
| 08:09.08 | wazd | RST38h: khertan: heya |
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| 08:09.57 | RST38h | moo wazd |
| 08:09.59 | khertan | this morning i ve some test with hildon desktop python binding on the fremantle sdk .... segfault of python ... grrrrr |
| 08:11.51 | khertan | pygtkeditor segfault too ... |
| 08:12.19 | RST38h | Well at least I got my code compile on Fremantle SDK |
| 08:12.28 | RST38h | Does not look like it is possible to run anything though |
| 08:12.57 | tigert | generally people build and run x86 binaries on scratchbox |
| 08:13.04 | tigert | then build for arm for the device |
| 08:13.14 | tigert | but I dont think it really works to run the arm binaries in sbox |
| 08:13.34 | khertan | pffff ... i ll wait to port my apps when i ll got an real device |
| 08:13.47 | RST38h | can't build x86 binary |
| 08:14.02 | khertan | and yes i targetting x86 |
| 08:14.03 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf-n810 (n=hellwolf@a213-22-69-165.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 08:14.15 | khertan | and using python2.5 |
| 08:14.16 | RST38h | With 2000+ lines of ARM assembly it becomes somewhat problematic |
| 08:15.48 | hendry | any clues how to create a launcher? just try personal launcher which b0rks on a brain dead dbus/machine-id problem |
| 08:15.55 | *** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@mar44-1-87-90-32-28.dsl.club-internet.fr) |
| 08:17.09 | RST38h | restate your question |
| 08:17.44 | khertan | hendry: on which os ? |
| 08:17.51 | hendry | khertan: maemo diablo |
| 08:17.57 | khertan | works for me |
| 08:18.22 | hendry | khertan: i just want create a shortcut for GtkLauncher. I'm finding it very difficult. :) |
| 08:18.43 | tigert | hendry: check the example app? |
| 08:18.58 | tigert | I think they are in /etc/applications/ - they are done with .desktop files |
| 08:19.25 | tigert | but it uses maemo-launcher so try the example package |
| 08:20.13 | hendry | tigert: thanks |
| 08:20.31 | tigert | hendry: which release of maemo? |
| 08:21.06 | khertan | about maemo summit sponsorship ... does they have sent email about acceptation or not ? |
| 08:21.12 | khertan | i still didn't have any news |
| 08:21.33 | khertan | but maybe due to the failure of my host |
| 08:21.52 | khertan | as they recover 2 years of email that was deleted ... :( |
| 08:21.53 | tigert | hendry: https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/tags/maemo_4.1/maemopad/data/ |
| 08:21.56 | tigert | hendry: maybe this helps? |
| 08:22.03 | tigert | it does a "service" and such |
| 08:22.18 | tigert | I think it is what you need to do, though I am far from being an expert on this launcher stuff |
| 08:23.28 | aol_ | RST38h: thanks! |
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| 08:24.47 | RST38h | wait |
| 08:25.10 | RST38h | You can only launch app via service if it initializes itself as a dbus service |
| 08:25.20 | RST38h | if it DOES NOT, you can still launch it, as an executable |
| 08:25.41 | RST38h | In this case you should remove Service: line from the .desktop file |
| 08:26.12 | hendry | RST38h: previously i used Personal Launcher where I didn't have this option |
| 08:26.13 | tigert | RST38h: ok good to know |
| 08:28.20 | khertan | ok on http://maemo.org/news/events/registrations/event/view/e840196271eb11deb15535a00f6d72187218/ i see that my sponsorship is accepted |
| 08:28.44 | khertan | but ... hey noone receive an email about acceptations ? |
| 08:29.21 | *** join/#maemo eocanha (n=eocanha@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 08:29.23 | *** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@54.200.49.122-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 08:29.43 | lbt | khertan: I got an email about sponsorship late yesterday |
| 08:29.53 | khertan | hum ... |
| 08:29.55 | lbt | and I sent an email to the travel agents last night |
| 08:29.57 | khertan | so my host lost it |
| 08:30.08 | lbt | and got flight details this am |
| 08:30.15 | hendry | hmm, created a .desktop file in /etc/others-menu and it's not being picked up. grr |
| 08:30.42 | khertan | lbt: did you know who send this email ? because maybe i should ask a resend ... |
| 08:30.45 | lbt | khertan: ask Jaffa when he's around, he can probably resend. |
| 08:30.48 | lbt | heh |
| 08:30.52 | khertan | lbt: thanks |
| 08:31.05 | Stskeeps | lbt: bringing the missus? |
| 08:31.05 | khertan | just an advice, never use ovh hoster services |
| 08:31.06 | khertan | :) |
| 08:32.00 | lbt | Stskeeps: wasn't... but... |
| 08:32.34 | *** join/#maemo eocanha (n=eocanha@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 08:32.36 | Stskeeps | lbt: i just recall danish weekend so :P |
| 08:36.40 | lbt | we just reviewed the talks ... not much for a non-dev |
| 08:36.48 | lbt | (some but really not much) |
| 08:37.08 | lbt | and it's 3 days of talks... |
| 08:37.55 | Stskeeps | ah |
| 08:38.18 | RST38h | hendry: you have to update the cache |
| 08:39.39 | florian | good morning |
| 08:40.14 | hendry | RST38h: how do I do that? |
| 08:42.08 | lbt | Stskeeps: are you bringing yours (now you've got one) |
| 08:42.38 | RST38h | hendry: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=maemo+update+cache |
| 08:42.54 | Stskeeps | lbt: not this time around, we are going to .fi together though |
| 08:43.20 | lbt | .fi ? |
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| 09:15.01 | hendry | RST38h: http://lmgtfy.com/ is fun, though google results for me are about an icon cache |
| 09:18.03 | RST38h | hendry: update-desktop-database /usr/share/applications |
| 09:18.10 | RST38h | sighs |
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| 09:21.29 | vladovg | hi |
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| 09:41.40 | wazd | khertan: I've received |
| 09:42.04 | wazd | khertan: you can use mine :D |
| 09:42.29 | Stskeeps | wonders where his sd cards are |
| 09:48.47 | rkirti | heh |
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| 09:55.48 | Stskeeps | lbt: when are you landing on thursday then? |
| 09:58.56 | X-Fade | Hmm another 8 people or so requesting sponsorship without filling in _any_ other details. |
| 09:59.38 | *** join/#maemo Mc2` (n=fred@alpha.kwain.net) |
| 09:59.58 | Stskeeps | pool been used up yet? :P |
| 10:00.34 | X-Fade | No idea, but getting close to the 300 limit. |
| 10:01.07 | X-Fade | 11 places left ;) |
| 10:01.36 | lbt | currently 8pm |
| 10:01.43 | lbt | going to ask for an earlier flight |
| 10:02.20 | *** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@85.183.48.167) |
| 10:02.21 | Stskeeps | lbt: alright, i'll be in amsterdam from 2pm it seems, and flying 3pm sunday |
| 10:03.07 | lbt | is hotel not covered for sponsorship? |
| 10:03.13 | Stskeeps | sure it is |
| 10:03.21 | *** part/#maemo tiagofalcao (n=tiagofal@201.82.168.98) |
| 10:03.42 | lbt | "If you wish we book a hotel for you please inform us your credit card number with expire date." |
| 10:03.55 | lbt | I thought so too |
| 10:04.01 | Stskeeps | nokia booked 40 rooms |
| 10:04.03 | Stskeeps | or something |
| 10:04.07 | lbt | yup |
| 10:04.36 | *** join/#maemo _berto_ (n=berto@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 10:04.42 | Stskeeps | and i think it's like it was in cph then |
| 10:05.08 | Stskeeps | well, hopefully less crazy for my pov :P |
| 10:05.24 | lbt | heh |
| 10:05.24 | *** join/#maemo zap (n=zap@213.59.86.89) |
| 10:06.51 | Stskeeps | anyway if you come earlier i'm up for dinner or something :p |
| 10:07.08 | lbt | writing back now.. |
| 10:10.53 | *** join/#maemo v6sa (n=lauri@lug.itcollege.ee) |
| 10:13.42 | X-Fade | lbt: yes, rooms are booked in advance. |
| 10:14.16 | X-Fade | lbt: approved people at least have a bed ;) |
| 10:14.40 | *** join/#maemo stemosco (n=stemosco@esprx02x.nokia.com) |
| 10:24.04 | wazd | X-Fade: can I replace myself with other guy? :) |
| 10:24.18 | lardman_ | is there a list somewhere? |
| 10:29.43 | wazd | X-Fade: unless he's aapproved too |
| 10:32.05 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 10:32.16 | lardman | hi Jaffa |
| 10:32.50 | wazd | Jaffa: heya, same question for you :) Can I replace myself with other guy? |
| 10:33.00 | Jaffa | wazd: Replace yourself for what? |
| 10:33.02 | wazd | Jaffa: in sponsorship slot :D |
| 10:33.17 | Jaffa | With whom? |
| 10:33.41 | zerojay | Michael Jordan. ;) |
| 10:33.55 | wazd | Jaffa: max Usachev, he's GSoC developer, he's made Mnemosyne for Maemo, really cool developer and nice guy :) |
| 10:34.27 | wazd | Jaffa: unless he will be approved later :) |
| 10:34.30 | Jaffa | wazd: The point of the sponsorship is to make sure you're there; and everyone is still being ranked on their merits |
| 10:34.39 | Jaffa | wazd: No decision has been made on him yet |
| 10:35.45 | RST38h | wazd: You should be there. |
| 10:36.03 | RST38h | Do not try to get away =) |
| 10:36.06 | wazd | Jaffa: well, I can't go anyway, there's a good probability that I'll be in the court defending my rights during the Summit :D |
| 10:36.21 | RST38h | wazd: ??? |
| 10:36.44 | wazd | RST38h: well, my army dep. still refuses to let me go, so I think I'll sue them |
| 10:37.00 | RST38h | wazd: Oh shit |
| 10:37.10 | zerojay | wazd: Wow. Even in this day and age... |
| 10:38.03 | RST38h | wazd: you can't get the travel passport without them ok'ing it? |
| 10:38.07 | wazd | zerojay: well, that's life :) |
| 10:38.13 | wazd | RST38h: yep |
| 10:38.36 | wazd | RST38h: that's why I stuck for 2 years already :) |
| 10:38.38 | *** join/#maemo Anunakin (n=fazzi@187-25-62-96.3g.claro.net.br) |
| 10:38.49 | Anunakin | Hi All! |
| 10:38.51 | Stskeeps | else wazd would have been filthy rich already ;) |
| 10:38.51 | RST38h | wazd: do they want you to serve or think you know something? |
| 10:39.08 | wazd | RST38h: they want money :) |
| 10:39.18 | RST38h | wazd: that covers both cases actually =) |
| 10:39.31 | Captain_Picard | http://crap.fi/archive/7151.thumb2.png |
| 10:39.43 | wazd | RST38h: I can't serve due to family and health conditions and I don't have secrecy restrictions :) |
| 10:40.03 | wazd | RST38h: they just don't want to leave me alone for free :) |
| 10:40.15 | RST38h | wazd: Ah ok, then it should be arguable in court |
| 10:40.53 | RST38h | the secrecy clause would be more of a problem |
| 10:41.47 | *** join/#maemo baraujo (n=Bruno@189.2.128.130) |
| 10:42.13 | Anunakin | Hey, I need some help on clone to SD, the problem is, I have one partition only on SD card and maemo stay to mount internal memory under first partition (and single) on external SD, any know where to change on /etc files? |
| 10:43.36 | *** join/#maemo femorandeira (n=Felipe@140.182.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 10:45.39 | RST38h | Steve Ballmer publicly ridicules Microsoft employee with iPhone, threatens to smash it |
| 10:46.05 | RST38h | isn't sure whose side he would be on here |
| 10:46.31 | thux | steve seems hothead :) |
| 10:46.52 | RST38h | Eagerly waiting for him to go reiser =) |
| 10:47.27 | thux | bill was more calm |
| 10:47.36 | lbt | RST38h: url ? |
| 10:48.03 | RST38h | http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/09/ballmer_spots_microsoft_employee_with_iphone_at_company_meeting.html |
| 10:48.52 | RST38h | wants to know how he gets to IP>0xFFFF in 16bit mode |
| 10:50.04 | *** join/#maemo avs_ (n=avs@192.100.124.156) |
| 10:50.08 | wazd | can anybody explain me why I have blinking cursor in firefox, wherever I clicl?) |
| 10:50.12 | wazd | click* |
| 10:52.35 | ccooke | wazd: you've turned on caret browsing? |
| 10:53.17 | RST38h | wazd: You have turned on caret browsing |
| 10:53.37 | wazd | RST38h: how/where/why me?! |
| 10:54.04 | RST38h | wazd: about:config and accessibility.browsewithcaret = false |
| 10:54.05 | ccooke | It's currently an option named "Always use the cursor keys to navigate within pages", under the Advanced -> General tab. |
| 10:54.13 | ccooke | (that's firefox 3.5) |
| 10:54.27 | RST38h | has caret browsing off but arrows still work |
| 10:54.46 | wazd | ccooke: oh, thanks! |
| 10:55.06 | ccooke | RST38h: with caret browsing off, they do slightly different things |
| 10:55.06 | Myrtti | lolwhat |
| 10:55.06 | wazd | RST38h: yeah, same :) |
| 10:55.14 | Myrtti | is the preorder price of N900 gone down in a week? |
| 10:55.15 | Myrtti | wow |
| 10:55.23 | Stskeeps | how much is it now? |
| 10:55.24 | ccooke | (With it on, you move the cursor. With it off, you move the page) |
| 10:55.33 | wazd | ccooke: oooh |
| 10:55.34 | Myrtti | I think it was about 30⬠less now than last week on kauppa.nokia.fi |
| 10:55.36 | ccooke | Myrtti: really? What country/place? |
| 10:55.46 | Myrtti | Stskeeps: 599⬠+ 7⬠s/h |
| 10:56.18 | ccooke | I think that's the original price, still |
| 10:56.18 | Myrtti | I think it was like 629⬠last week |
| 10:56.24 | Myrtti | on kauppa.nokia.fi |
| 10:56.31 | RST38h | That must be with .fi VAT |
| 10:56.46 | wazd | so many rich people out there :P |
| 10:56.58 | Myrtti | wazd: it's still cheaper than N97 |
| 10:57.04 | RST38h | wazd: Give it 3-4 months and it will be $500-$550, at least in the US |
| 10:57.19 | *** join/#maemo bilboed (n=bilboed@89.129.131.142) |
| 10:57.20 | ccooke | wazd: I put down money for the n900 in December. If I hadn't... no way I'd be able to afford it right now :-) |
| 10:57.47 | thux | wonder how many here already have n900 in their hands, 60% of people? |
| 10:57.55 | Myrtti | less |
| 10:57.56 | zerojay | No way. |
| 10:57.59 | RST38h | Myrtti: N97 is $550 in the US right now |
| 10:58.04 | zerojay | Less than 10%. |
| 10:58.05 | Myrtti | this channel is not nokia, nokia is not this channel |
| 10:58.06 | SpeedEvil | Still 499 here - in UK - n900 |
| 10:58.11 | ccooke | thux: more like 0.6% :-) |
| 10:58.11 | X-Fade | thux: Way way less ;) |
| 10:58.31 | kirma | myrtti: the price in kauppa.nokia.fi was 599 euros plus delivery already on the first day it was there |
| 10:58.37 | khertan | thux: not me |
| 10:58.40 | ccooke | SpeedEvil: less if you pre-order at play.com. *technically* less at expansys, too, but that's a £30 voucher |
| 10:58.46 | Myrtti | kirma: where did I see the 629⬠then...? |
| 10:58.50 | frals | still same price on the swedish nokia shop, 5995 swedish (about 599e) |
| 10:58.53 | SpeedEvil | ccooke: ? |
| 10:58.58 | ccooke | preordered from Nokia, though, hoping they'll ship sooner. |
| 10:59.05 | X-Fade | thux: The consumer version is not out there yet. So every metion you see are pre-production/protos probably. |
| 10:59.11 | zerojay | I think that when I get an N900, I'm going to need a droolguard. Anyone sell those? |
| 10:59.16 | kirma | indesol or something had that kind of price |
| 10:59.20 | ccooke | SpeedEvil: http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/4-/11626538/NokiaN900SimFreeUnlocked50Megapixel32GBMobilePhone/Product.html?cur=257 |
| 10:59.24 | khertan | come in france ... n900 is in pre order for 649 Euros |
| 10:59.39 | ccooke | SpeedEvil: http://www.expansys.com/d.aspx?i=186949 |
| 10:59.42 | SpeedEvil | Ah - 479 |
| 10:59.46 | Myrtti | vk.fi has 589.90⬠|
| 10:59.47 | zerojay | Allez les Bleus! |
| 10:59.52 | RST38h | khertan: Yes, but it must have got SCART! |
| 11:00.06 | RST38h | BTW, does the French N900 output video in SECAM? |
| 11:00.15 | *** join/#maemo chx (n=chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 11:00.16 | khertan | TVA Tax 19.6% + Around 50 Euro as it s a mp3 player too so tax on everything that can have mp3 |
| 11:00.19 | Myrtti | *snerk* |
| 11:00.25 | khertan | and an other tax as it s a phone |
| 11:00.28 | SpeedEvil | 649 euros >> 479 pounds |
| 11:00.30 | ccooke | SpeedEvil: Technically I'd say play.com's is cheaper - free delivery |
| 11:01.04 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:01.06 | khertan | it s seems that france will become soon a communist country |
| 11:01.06 | SpeedEvil | nokia |
| 11:01.13 | zerojay | lol |
| 11:01.23 | khertan | <SpeedEvil> ALL PREORDERS INCLUDE FREE STANDARD SHIPPING. <<< not on french nokia store :) |
| 11:01.31 | kirma | not in .fi either |
| 11:01.31 | ccooke | SpeedEvil: yes, but nokia charges the extra £20 |
| 11:01.38 | SpeedEvil | ccooke: of course |
| 11:01.44 | ccooke | But as I said - I'm hoping they'll ship sooner than play would :-) |
| 11:01.52 | frals | in sweden all orders above ~200 is free shipping from nokia.se |
| 11:01.54 | RST38h | khertan: Is it not yet? =) |
| 11:02.00 | zerojay | With the way some Americans react any time they hear the word "France", you'd think they were communist a LONG time ago. ;) |
| 11:02.05 | SpeedEvil | Still - at 149 - I might have ordered - 479 - no way |
| 11:02.32 | khertan | RST38h: i don't think as communisme mean sharing ... at this time i'm just taxed ... not getting any services |
| 11:02.34 | ccooke | SpeedEvil: £149?! Now that's optimism! |
| 11:02.38 | RST38h | zerojay: Americans react this way to anybody who does not do what they want. "Communist" was simply a convenient label at the time =) |
| 11:02.53 | zerojay | RST38h: Agreed! |
| 11:02.53 | RST38h | khertan: That is not communism then |
| 11:02.55 | ccooke | SpeedEvil: still, give it a year or four and you'll probably find it for that... |
| 11:02.55 | khertan | 32Go = 50 Euro heighter price ... huhu |
| 11:03.01 | khertan | RST38h: yes ... :) |
| 11:03.18 | khertan | RST38h: we say in french ploutocratie |
| 11:03.20 | RST38h | khertan: Communism is when they take all your property and give you free health services, education, and housing =) |
| 11:03.38 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: And gulags |
| 11:03.44 | RST38h | Without the last three things, it is just robbery =) |
| 11:04.18 | RST38h | Speed: that too, although they are not specific to commies, really |
| 11:04.20 | thux | is it true that no mms message support in n900? |
| 11:04.30 | RST38h | thux: Yes. |
| 11:04.31 | *** join/#maemo stemosco (n=stemosco@esprx02x.nokia.com) |
| 11:04.46 | RST38h | thux: Explicitely stated that they did not want to go into implementing that shit |
| 11:04.51 | khertan | it s like a democratie but governed by rich idiots |
| 11:05.07 | ccooke | RST38h: probably wise. |
| 11:05.28 | RST38h | ccooke: Yea, reading MMS-related standard documents can give you lifelong nightmares |
| 11:05.30 | zerojay | RST38h: More like there was an issue in the Linux kernel that couldn't be worked around for SMS support (which apparently now has been fixed), but.. close enough. |
| 11:05.37 | ccooke | I think the only time I've ever used MMS was when my phone broke and stopped sending SMS |
| 11:05.45 | zerojay | ER. |
| 11:05.48 | RST38h | zerojay: That, I suspect, was bogus. |
| 11:05.49 | zerojay | Yeah... mms support. |
| 11:06.16 | frals | I use MMS a few times a week :[ |
| 11:06.16 | RST38h | zerojay: Because MMS has nothing to do with the kernel |
| 11:06.18 | ccooke | I find myself deeply suspicious of any suggestion you'd need a kernel driver for mms support |
| 11:06.39 | RST38h | ccooke: Does it use SMS for notifications btw? |
| 11:07.10 | ccooke | frals: it should be entirely possible to write an app to do it |
| 11:07.13 | zerojay | RST38h: Has to do with connections implemented within the kernel from what I understand. I can't say I've looked at recent changelogs to notice what change in the kernel could possibly have made MMS possible again. |
| 11:07.14 | ccooke | RST38h: which it? |
| 11:07.48 | RST38h | zerojay: MMS runs over http protocol more or less |
| 11:07.51 | RST38h | ccooke: MMS |
| 11:07.53 | frals | yeah shouldnt be that hard |
| 11:08.13 | RST38h | ccooke: I mean the only kernel depdendence would be receiving incoming message notifications from the baseband chip |
| 11:08.15 | thux | but isn't lack of mms support means no mobile viruses then? |
| 11:08.17 | ccooke | zerojay: if the GSM modem is at all accessible in userland - which it will be - then it'll be possible to send SMS or MMS via it. |
| 11:08.28 | RST38h | ccooke: if this is done via plain SMS, then the kernel claim is totally bogus |
| 11:08.30 | ccooke | RST38h: depends how it's done. |
| 11:08.48 | frals | the way i understood it is your phone gets an SMS with an embedded link to the MMS |
| 11:09.05 | RST38h | frals: that is pre-MMS stuff, I think |
| 11:09.06 | frals | which your device should launch in a wap browser or something like that |
| 11:09.15 | RST38h | But it may be used for MMS as well |
| 11:09.36 | RST38h | zerojay: Anyway, I would take the kernel claim with a huge grain of salt |
| 11:10.13 | zerojay | RST38h: Looking at MMS... yeah, does seem weird. |
| 11:10.16 | frals | kernel claim seems unlikely, but I think I read somewhere it was due to them not wanting to "waste" time on the WAP standard |
| 11:10.41 | zerojay | Maybe just a matter of them not having the time to implement it. |
| 11:10.49 | zerojay | Like portrait mode. |
| 11:11.04 | frals | yeah, id say that seems like a good reason ^^ |
| 11:11.07 | zerojay | And like portrait mode, I won't miss MMS a bit. :D |
| 11:11.29 | ccooke | frals: what do you use MMS for, by the way? |
| 11:11.34 | SpeedEvil | And FM reciever - |
| 11:11.38 | ccooke | I've never actually met anyone who used it :-) |
| 11:12.03 | frals | random funny stuff i encounter when im out about mostly, i mean, its not vital in any way :) |
| 11:12.16 | lardman | SpeedEvil: that looks straight forward to get working |
| 11:12.17 | ccooke | frals: would sending email work just as well? |
| 11:12.29 | ccooke | or, indeed, SMS with a link to a web page. |
| 11:12.38 | Anunakin | I want one N900 too! |
| 11:12.39 | Anunakin | :P |
| 11:12.54 | SpeedEvil | lardman: yes - I await my N900 so I can try. Or not. :/ |
| 11:12.55 | RST38h | frals: Correct - they do not want to implement the whole WAP/MMS stack |
| 11:12.56 | ccooke | Anunakin: I think many of us do :-) |
| 11:12.58 | X-Fade | And uploading for Ovi or Flickr is built in. |
| 11:13.00 | zerojay | If I'm taking a picture of something, I'll want to share it with more than just one person, so... flickr/facebook/ovi/pixelpipe support is all I need. |
| 11:13.07 | X-Fade | So you can easily sent a mail with link. |
| 11:13.08 | frals | the thing with mms is i know everyone i send it to can view straight away in the device, while most can check their email/a website its way more effort |
| 11:13.10 | X-Fade | Or IM + link. |
| 11:13.12 | RST38h | frals: It is huge, outdated, and just plain horrible |
| 11:13.31 | ccooke | even has a plan to write something for it. Unfortunately, it's not something I can even tell is possible until I get my hands on the device :-) |
| 11:13.33 | RST38h | never seen people use MMS |
| 11:13.49 | thux | for instance if you see celebrity you can take picture and send it to seiska magazine and get cash :) |
| 11:13.52 | SpeedEvil | notes RST38h is commenting using a messaging system unchanged for well over a decade. |
| 11:13.53 | frals | while most of the people i mms with actually have email in their phones they dont have it autochecking/push-notifications so a mms is more direct |
| 11:14.03 | RST38h | Speed: And proud of it. |
| 11:14.17 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: outdated doesn't mean bad! |
| 11:14.25 | RST38h | Speed: If it ain't broken, don't fix it |
| 11:14.34 | SpeedEvil | Today I am going to have anohther go setting up pppd/chat. |
| 11:14.51 | SpeedEvil | I last did this in 1998 or so when I last setup my dialup. |
| 11:15.16 | zerojay | MMS = bad. ;) |
| 11:15.19 | thux | i use mms every day, today sent 7 pics and received five |
| 11:15.26 | SpeedEvil | Now - all I need is to find a really long bit of bamboo to strap my 3G dongle to. |
| 11:15.40 | ccooke | SpeedEvil: ... ? |
| 11:15.55 | SpeedEvil | ccooke: Coverage - outdoor/variable |
| 11:16.06 | zerojay | thux: I don't know a single person in my real life that uses it or even knows what it is. lol |
| 11:16.25 | RST38h | thux: how much have you paid? |
| 11:16.29 | frals | i guess it depends a lot on your location, id say most people in sweden knows about it/have used it/uses it |
| 11:16.47 | thux | 0,39e msg |
| 11:16.59 | thux | when send |
| 11:17.22 | frals | i get like 3000 free mms each month, and the one receiving it doesnt pay either |
| 11:17.52 | ccooke | paying to receive any message is... insane. It *is* only the US that does that, right? |
| 11:18.32 | frals | i hope so |
| 11:18.56 | frals | good way to get people not to use it i guess |
| 11:19.04 | SpeedEvil | ccooke: Unless it's opt-in-services generally in the UK |
| 11:19.19 | frals | goes reading the OMA MMS spec |
| 11:19.22 | thux | here they do use it |
| 11:19.25 | Captain_Picard | Anunakin: !!! |
| 11:19.32 | ccooke | Here we go - how to send an MMS message from a GSM modem: http://www.nowsms.com/discus/messages/12/982.html |
| 11:19.37 | ccooke | SpeedEvil: that's fine, though |
| 11:20.12 | SpeedEvil | ccooke: yeah |
| 11:20.16 | *** join/#maemo ziyourenxiang (n=ziyouren@unaffiliated/ziyourenxiang) |
| 11:22.10 | RST38h | ccooke: ok, so not different from sms, no special kernel support needed |
| 11:22.28 | RST38h | On the other hand, the notification process is not covered in this page |
| 11:23.13 | frals | http://www.openmobilealliance.org/Technical/release_program/mms_v1_3.aspx if you want the specs for it ;) |
| 11:23.59 | ccooke | RST38h: *nod* |
| 11:25.09 | Anunakin | Hey, I need some help on clone to SD, the problem is, I have one partition only on SD card and maemo stay to mount internal memory under first partition (and single) on external SD, any know where to change on /etc files? |
| 11:25.26 | ShadowJK | WAP is seriously crufty |
| 11:25.27 | Anunakin | Captain_Picard: ? |
| 11:25.56 | SpeedEvil | WAP is what - compressed protocol html over mms basically? |
| 11:26.00 | SpeedEvil | forgets the transport |
| 11:26.05 | ShadowJK | not html |
| 11:26.06 | ShadowJK | wml |
| 11:26.11 | Captain_Picard | Anunakin: you buying the n900? |
| 11:26.38 | Anunakin | not for now... I dont live on USA or Europe! |
| 11:26.43 | ShadowJK | Instead of just using a subset of HTML2 for CPU and RAM-restricted machines, they had a comittee invent a whole new thing instead. |
| 11:27.17 | Anunakin | Captain_Picard: I just looking for buy on amazon.com |
| 11:27.35 | chx | SpeedEvil: no way |
| 11:27.44 | ShadowJK | The transport stuff seems pretty icky too, you have to establish a new GPRS connection to a dedicated APN for mms, connect to some proxy servers to send your request over WAP and... gah |
| 11:27.48 | chx | SpeedEvil: If memory serves, MMS came way later than WAP |
| 11:28.39 | ShadowJK | and WAP has the translation stuff where your operator's server modifies content according to the capabilities of your phone |
| 11:28.48 | chx | SpeedEvil: actually now that i look, MMS uses WAP |
| 11:29.10 | ShadowJK | The whole thing stinks dung, and I can't blame them for not wanting to touch it with 10-foot pole |
| 11:30.06 | SpeedEvil | you'd I think therefore need to teardown IP to do WAP? |
| 11:30.09 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:31.28 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 11:32.07 | *** join/#maemo zerojay (n=zerojay@74.198.12.3) |
| 11:33.12 | thux | i think all symbian and wince models still support mms, wonder does iphone? is iphone software osx? |
| 11:33.30 | frals | the 3gs does support mms afaik |
| 11:33.42 | thux | ok |
| 11:35.50 | aquatix | wonders why his android phone only can send contacts as mms |
| 11:35.52 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (n=alehorst@200.146.4.35.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br) |
| 11:36.34 | hendry | aquatix: what other contact formats were you expecting? |
| 11:36.44 | aquatix | vcard over email |
| 11:36.49 | aquatix | at the least :) |
| 11:36.55 | lardman | or over BT? |
| 11:36.58 | aquatix | yep |
| 11:37.07 | aquatix | given that android will do bluetooth obex soonish |
| 11:37.54 | ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, dunno, atleast on S60 you can have multiple GPRS connections open simultaneously. I can both have my phone providing internet to my tablet, and have phone connect to internet itself (with each getting their own public IP) |
| 11:38.10 | ShadowJK | however when I was in germany that didn't work. I guess the operator can limit the amount of GPRS connections per device |
| 11:38.56 | frals | uh, after reading some of the specs documents and other stuff ive concluded that mms is ugly :( |
| 11:39.07 | thux | is that obama's blueberry wince? |
| 11:39.55 | zerojay | Mms is... Yucky. |
| 11:45.09 | frals | but still so nice to have, but implementing it seems a bit awkward |
| 11:45.38 | frals | on the other hand ive never done anything sms-related (coding) either |
| 11:45.54 | ShadowJK | the sms part of it isn't that bad |
| 11:47.51 | thux | my old wince ipaq didn't support those long sms picture msgs |
| 11:48.09 | thux | bw pictures 3 sms long |
| 11:48.13 | Corsac | do we have any news about carriers n900 availability? |
| 11:48.28 | zerojay | No. |
| 11:48.50 | zerojay | Probably not likely either. |
| 11:49.00 | zerojay | At least in the us. |
| 11:49.02 | *** join/#maemo MaceN8x0 (n=macer@rancorous.net) |
| 11:50.38 | zerojay | They want to lock down or customize Maemo. Nokia says no, carriers say no. |
| 11:50.49 | zerojay | Pretty simple really. |
| 11:50.55 | *** join/#maemo Ryback_ (n=ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 11:51.20 | zerojay | But who knows, maybe someone will take a chance. |
| 11:58.23 | Jaffa | doesn't understand it; since Apple doesn't let them "customise" iPhone |
| 11:58.28 | ShadowJK | thux, those are called ems and completely different than mms |
| 11:58.42 | ShadowJK | Jaffa, ah but Apple does it for them :-) |
| 11:58.53 | ShadowJK | just look at the voip and tethering vanishing :) |
| 11:59.08 | X-Fade | zerojay: There are a lot of countries where providers don't have a say in what device enters their network. |
| 11:59.29 | zerojay | Sure.. |
| 11:59.45 | X-Fade | zerojay: I can get any device subsidized over here. |
| 11:59.46 | zerojay | That makes sense. |
| 11:59.48 | ShadowJK | X-Fade, I didn't know there were places where they had a say |
| 11:59.53 | *** join/#maemo mauso (n=matti@home4.willab.fi) |
| 12:00.16 | zerojay | Congrats. It's not the case here. |
| 12:00.20 | X-Fade | ShadowJK: *cough* us *cough* |
| 12:00.24 | AndrewFBlack | Morning |
| 12:00.44 | ShadowJK | X-Fade, I thought they didn't have the right to block you from using a certain device |
| 12:01.05 | X-Fade | ShadowJK: No, but they just don't offer it. |
| 12:01.19 | ShadowJK | Well that's different :) |
| 12:01.34 | X-Fade | I guess you can always get an unlocked device and use that. |
| 12:01.41 | ShadowJK | There are some countries where operators aren't at all involved in the business of selling devices :) |
| 12:02.26 | *** join/#maemo uzzed (n=alexandr@189.58.129.252) |
| 12:03.44 | zerojay | Wind is supposed to be starting up in canada soon, hopefully with euro style pricing. |
| 12:04.06 | khertan | having no carrier customizing is really a good things |
| 12:04.33 | khertan | the orange one on n70 really slow down the phone |
| 12:04.48 | khertan | 5min for starting the phone |
| 12:05.06 | khertan | and 45s for displaying the menu |
| 12:05.06 | aquatix | ..wow |
| 12:05.32 | khertan | and it s prevent user for flashing the device |
| 12:05.38 | ShadowJK | my operator is now selling phones :/ |
| 12:05.49 | *** join/#maemo halves (n=higor@201-77-125-1.desktop.com.br) |
| 12:05.52 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (n=timeless@192.100.124.156) |
| 12:05.53 | ShadowJK | Luckily they advertise whether they've crippled the device or not. Most are uncrippled :) |
| 12:05.59 | khertan | it s require some hack just to get a working phone |
| 12:06.39 | ShadowJK | Yeah, the block on firmware/ota updates is one if the bigger drawbacks with operator-crippled/castrated/customized phones |
| 12:06.43 | khertan | and on Treo650 selled by orange, the firmware update was delayed for one year |
| 12:08.46 | khertan | zerojay: you said that they didn t ask for customization on iphone ... but they surely require some rules for application available on iphone store |
| 12:09.04 | khertan | iphone application store |
| 12:10.44 | *** join/#maemo pacopil (n=n@68.231.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 12:10.55 | Jaffa | khertan: Apple say the carriers do not get involved in individual application decisions |
| 12:11.02 | Jaffa | (however there are rules about VoIP etc.) |
| 12:11.22 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (n=jr@200.194.116.85.dsl.manitu.net) |
| 12:12.00 | khertan | Jaffa: in individual ... but for the mass ? |
| 12:12.01 | khertan | :) |
| 12:12.06 | khertan | Jaffa: hi :) |
| 12:13.15 | khertan | i ve a request to you ... i just see this morning that i was "officially" accepted for a sponsored travel, but i didn't got any email ... and has my hoster got problem with email, i fear that it was lost ... |
| 12:13.42 | khertan | if you send me any mail about the summit ... is it possible to re send me again the email ? |
| 12:13.53 | Jaffa | khertan: It's basically http://jaffa.tiddlyspot.com/#SponsorshipApprove |
| 12:13.57 | khertan | thx :) and sorry for disturbing you |
| 12:15.38 | khertan | > "The only travel expenses sponsored are flights" the hotel isn't sponsored ? |
| 12:15.51 | *** join/#maemo MaceN8x0 (n=macer@rancorous.net) |
| 12:16.21 | ccooke | khertan: hotel isn't travel expenses, surely? |
| 12:16.47 | SpeedEvil | Airport fees? |
| 12:16.52 | SpeedEvil | flight VAT+... ? |
| 12:17.16 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer (n=jr@85.116.194.200) |
| 12:17.36 | ccooke | my reading would be: They get you tickets. That's all the cost. You pay to get to the airport, and from airport to hotel |
| 12:17.53 | ccooke | From what I'd read, it sounds like they pay the hotel, too. |
| 12:18.23 | ccooke | But once the ticket is paid for, there are no additional costs. |
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| 12:19.07 | ccooke | OOI, How many people here have an Android phone? |
| 12:19.33 | khertan | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=325340#post325340 <<< it s a joke ? |
| 12:21.18 | DocScrutinizer | Hi |
| 12:21.25 | AndrewFBlack | khertan, yeah its a joke |
| 12:21.34 | ccooke | Heh. I guess I can take that as "Nobody who's here" :-) |
| 12:21.43 | khertan | ccooke: yep :) |
| 12:21.47 | ccooke | Which is a shame |
| 12:21.59 | SpeedEvil | ponders adding - 'I got mine - also a free puppy'. |
| 12:22.13 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: heh! |
| 12:22.17 | ccooke | There's an Android app I'm tempted to implement for the n900, but I wanted to see if people were interested |
| 12:22.28 | SpeedEvil | hi |
| 12:22.31 | ccooke | I guess I could explain the app, if people don't mind? |
| 12:22.33 | khertan | ccooke: a shame ? android is a shame ... it s works mainly with java |
| 12:22.56 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: you got Android on your FR? |
| 12:22.58 | ccooke | khertan: seen how much maemo code is in a HLL? |
| 12:23.10 | khertan | hhl? |
| 12:23.20 | lardman | Java? where's crashanddie...? :) |
| 12:23.24 | ccooke | High Level Language - python, ruby, perl, java... |
| 12:23.42 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I don't have a FR. I spent cash on the neo - and couldn't justify spending more on the FR. Small income due to disability benefits/... |
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| 12:24.02 | DocScrutinizer | aah, GTA01 |
| 12:24.20 | ccooke | The app I want to implement, though, is called Locale - basically, it's a pluggable event system with a drag and drop UI. |
| 12:25.22 | ccooke | It can trigger on your location, the time, batter states, when someone calls... and can then do stuff like setting brightness, turning off wifi, sending messages, updating todo lists... |
| 12:25.29 | ccooke | battery states, even |
| 12:25.42 | ccooke | I don't think anyone's implemented a deep frying plugin yet |
| 12:26.26 | zerojay | Look up Shephard on tmo. |
| 12:26.29 | DocScrutinizer | ccooke: I'm much interested in hat |
| 12:26.35 | DocScrutinizer | that |
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| 12:28.50 | lbt | ccooke: http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2009/09/grandcentral-for-mer-connecting.html |
| 12:29.17 | lbt | very similar concept - I've written it in python for Mer |
| 12:29.57 | ccooke | ISTR that maemo switched to Upstart as an init replacement |
| 12:30.02 | ccooke | I was planning to use that :-) |
| 12:30.03 | lbt | no UI - I'm more interested in getting the underlying system right - but it's perfectly reasonable to use a UI to manage the connections |
| 12:30.08 | ccooke | efficiency and all that |
| 12:30.27 | lbt | how would that work? |
| 12:30.40 | lbt | I see it as a dbus/signal switchboard |
| 12:30.54 | lbt | with multiple connections/signal |
| 12:31.03 | ccooke | lbt: you see what as a dbus/signal switchboard? |
| 12:31.12 | lbt | kinda like Qt signal/slots or any other publish/subscribe |
| 12:31.22 | lbt | you mentioned "Locale" |
| 12:31.25 | ccooke | yes. |
| 12:31.34 | lbt | as "a pluggable event system" |
| 12:31.52 | lbt | that is what ^^ my blog post is about |
| 12:32.13 | lbt | and what I'm working on atm for Mer (and anything else) |
| 12:32.31 | ccooke | yes, I read it. I wasn't sure if you meant that or Upstart |
| 12:32.34 | ccooke | as your "it" |
| 12:32.38 | lbt | sure |
| 12:32.41 | ccooke | both were in context :-) |
| 12:33.15 | ccooke | The reason I was planning on using Upstart is it already solves the backend |
| 12:33.30 | lbt | I can see what you mean |
| 12:33.48 | lbt | I'm using python for similar reasons... |
| 12:33.50 | ccooke | in an efficient way that doesn't require an extra daemon running |
| 12:33.58 | lbt | the code is minimal but provides context |
| 12:34.02 | ccooke | *nod* |
| 12:34.20 | lbt | and python will be running anyhow so .so should take care of most issues |
| 12:34.39 | lbt | back in a sec - maybe read the post |
| 12:34.46 | lbt | I've got to put up some code |
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| 12:34.56 | lbt | would be happy to collaborate and review the design |
| 12:35.36 | ccooke | lbt: I'd be very interested. |
| 12:36.10 | ccooke | the key points are making it suitable for non-technical use |
| 12:38.13 | *** join/#maemo sphenxes (n=sphenxes@85-127-168-36.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 12:38.27 | ccooke | As an example of what I'm doing with it right now: I have it changing the wallpaper whenver I'm at home, turning the brightnes sup to full when it's on charge, turning off wifi and dimming the backlight when power's low... and sending an SMS to my wife when I get near Hammersmith tube station after 4pm on a weekday (because I have a habit of working late, and it's useful for her to know when I'm on the way home) |
| 12:38.49 | SpeedEvil | What does the text say? |
| 12:38.58 | SpeedEvil | Stop! Hammersmithtime! |
| 12:39.10 | ccooke | ... Now I'm tempted to do that. |
| 12:39.16 | ccooke | I think she'll kill me :-) |
| 12:39.16 | jaska | lol |
| 12:39.50 | lbt | heh ... when I rotate my N800 camera the screen brightness goes up/down |
| 12:40.28 | lbt | syntax/UI for my config is eg: connect(camera, "Camera.active", takePhotoAfter10Secs) |
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| 12:40.38 | jaska | does n800 have the light sensor? |
| 12:40.42 | lbt | no |
| 12:40.50 | ccooke | jaska: technically yes, but actually no |
| 12:40.51 | *** part/#maemo hecklejeckle (n=hangeles@173-15-176-105-BusName-Philadelphia.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 12:41.00 | ccooke | (there's an app somewhere that uses the camera as one :-) |
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| 12:41.04 | jaska | ah, was just wondering |
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| 12:53.33 | khertan | arg ... seems there isn't many place for flight to amsterdamn for the 9th october ... :( |
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| 12:56.15 | Jaffa | Yay, someone agrees with me about /opt/<package> :-) |
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| 12:57.02 | lardman | monkeys and typewriters...? ;) |
| 12:57.58 | *** join/#maemo fiferboy (n=quassel@216.185.81.34) |
| 12:58.33 | Jaffa | lardman: :-p |
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| 13:00.13 | javispedro | 10% slowdown for unionfs? that does not make sense |
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| 13:01.02 | Corsac | Jaffa: was http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#OPTADDONAPPLICATIONSOFTWAREPACKAGES already given? |
| 13:01.17 | Jaffa | Corsac: Yes. |
| 13:01.22 | Corsac | ok |
| 13:02.09 | Jaffa | Since /etc/opt etc. was going to be used, it was deemed hack*ier* than /opt/maemo/usr/... |
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| 13:03.33 | javispedro | remembers qgil's "you won't need to worry about space for applications" post |
| 13:03.40 | javispedro | well, everyone is worried now ;) |
| 13:04.09 | Jaffa | remembered that post, and pointed it out to qgil, when he saw that there was only 100MB free on / |
| 13:04.12 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=Faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 13:04.56 | ccooke | 100MB free? I guess most of the 32G is FAT-formatted? |
| 13:05.19 | Jaffa | The rootfs is not on the eMMC (which is where the 32G is) |
| 13:05.45 | Jaffa | Some of the 32G is allocated for /home/user as ext2, and the rest is /home/user/MyDocs as vfat |
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| 13:08.03 | luke-jr | Jaffa: you forgot swap? |
| 13:08.05 | javispedro | the aufs solution doesn't look awful, but it brings its own load of problems. what to do with ssu? |
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| 13:11.25 | fiferboy | timeless_mbp: Could you check a couple things in 0.4-5 when you have some time? |
| 13:12.37 | javispedro | envisions the app mgr entering a special mode for ssus, disabling the unionfs and writing all over the oneNAND, then prelinking and remounting the unionfs |
| 13:14.33 | javispedro | chaos would ensue |
| 13:14.34 | javispedro | :) |
| 13:15.25 | Jaffa | luke-jr: True |
| 13:15.54 | Jaffa | javispedro: App Manager blocks the device usage during SSU, so unmounting the union would seem fine |
| 13:16.04 | Jaffa | I don't know if they bother prelinking with SSUs |
| 13:16.40 | javispedro | Jaffa: but don't know how aufs will handle that. Imagine the user has been toying with upgraded "overlayed" system libs in eMMC. |
| 13:17.01 | Jaffa | javispedro: True. Maybe SSUs just go on top of the union then? |
| 13:17.12 | javispedro | then we are in the eeePC situation. |
| 13:17.13 | Jaffa | javispedro: Or, it becomes two stage somehow? |
| 13:17.22 | javispedro | Skype both in ro branch and rw branch |
| 13:17.25 | *** part/#maemo |KaE| (n=KaE@93-120-143-141.dynamic.mts-nn.ru) |
| 13:17.28 | javispedro | nearly everything duplicated |
| 13:17.58 | javispedro | and (if the bad emmc relative performance is to be believed) system slowed down. |
| 13:18.02 | Jaffa | javispedro: True. |
| 13:18.18 | *** join/#maemo MaceN8x0 (n=macer@rancorous.net) |
| 13:18.42 | Jaffa | javispedro: dpkg already knows if a file has been futzed with when an upgrade comes in. Use that somehow? |
| 13:19.03 | ccooke | shame we can't do what ipkg did |
| 13:19.34 | javispedro | Jaffa: probably. patched dpkg can delete it from emmc. However, uglyness increasing again :) |
| 13:19.48 | javispedro | ccooke: good question. what does ipkg do? |
| 13:19.58 | Jaffa | javispedro: True. Damnit. I'd hoped a union would save us. |
| 13:20.13 | Jaffa | javispedro: But then I'm not convinced by m-vo's answer to the Python packages problem |
| 13:20.13 | lardman | bbiab |
| 13:20.25 | ccooke | javispedro: It has a concept of install bases - you can write to any of them, and it'll symlink all the files into the right place in the rootfs |
| 13:20.33 | javispedro | Jaffa: come to think of it, unionfs could be patched instead to use mtime to decide which file to "show". |
| 13:20.35 | m-vo | Jaffa, I don't think I answered anything about Python... |
| 13:20.40 | javispedro | (if it doesn't do that already!!) |
| 13:20.43 | ccooke | but that would be a separate dpkg, so... |
| 13:20.44 | Jaffa | m-vo: hello! :) |
| 13:21.01 | ccooke | javispedro: I think it can do that now. |
| 13:21.03 | Jaffa | m-vo: I thought you responded to one of my mails about the symlinks from one package confusing the second |
| 13:21.14 | javispedro | ccooke: basically, it's dpkg but with an initial maemo-optify-deb ? |
| 13:21.16 | m-vo | No, sounds unfamiliar... |
| 13:21.24 | Jaffa | javispedro: In fact, surely it must already use mtime? |
| 13:21.37 | javispedro | yeah, going to test now |
| 13:21.41 | ccooke | javispedro: in many ways, yes. Except of course, it's more *almost* dpkg |
| 13:21.44 | mgedmin | is scared by all this unionfs talk |
| 13:22.08 | mgedmin | notes that Ubuntu at least already uses very extensive symlink trees for all Python packages |
| 13:22.12 | ccooke | javispedro: the ipk format is a descendant of .deb, while ipkg is a limited replacement for dpkg and apt-get. |
| 13:22.27 | ccooke | hmm |
| 13:22.35 | ccooke | Actually, why not post-process this? |
| 13:22.54 | ccooke | Write a tool to use symlinks to move files out of the rootfs |
| 13:23.12 | ccooke | that can even be atomic, so it can run in the background. |
| 13:23.36 | Jaffa | m-vo: In that case, see the pyton-core and python-evolution thought experiment at http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020648.html |
| 13:23.56 | m-vo | will do... |
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| 13:24.54 | ccooke | Hmm. not in the background, it'd need to be an explicit front end. |
| 13:25.04 | Corsac | with a pure dpkg it'd be possible to use triggers too |
| 13:25.30 | ccooke | On the other hand, you could precalculate the space you'd save - even set it to an aggressiveness figure. |
| 13:25.38 | ccooke | so you could guarantee getting the space you need |
| 13:25.53 | ccooke | Corsac: indeed. |
| 13:26.01 | m-vo | Jaffa, right that needs a good response. |
| 13:26.03 | javispedro | hm. aufs doesn't seem to do that by default. it is always showing the rw branch file |
| 13:26.15 | mgedmin | ccooke: can you atomically replace a file with a symlink? |
| 13:26.30 | mgedmin | symlink(2) says "If newpath exists it will not be overwritten." |
| 13:26.37 | timeless_mbp | fiferboy: i looked |
| 13:26.41 | timeless_mbp | i had a couple of comments |
| 13:26.48 | ccooke | mgedmin: I recall there being a way, but I'd need to double check. |
| 13:26.52 | m-vo | There might indeed by problems if two packages contain the exact same symlink, but maemo-optify will never do that, I think. |
| 13:26.53 | fiferboy | timeless_mbp: Thanks |
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| 13:27.31 | javispedro | I gather it's showing the file from the first branch (as ordered in the mount call) that has it. |
| 13:27.39 | m-vo | It can only happen with directories, and directories are only moved if they are named after the package, which means e should be safe. |
| 13:27.47 | mgedmin | Jaffa: re your question on the ml: the setup had a symlink to a directory |
| 13:27.51 | ccooke | mgedmin: http://blog.dvl.pl/article/2009/04/18/atomic-symlink-replacement/ |
| 13:27.57 | mgedmin | I've heard that dpkg is very unhappy if you use symlinks to directories |
| 13:28.05 | m-vo | I'll read Valerie's articles. Should be great stuff, as always. |
| 13:28.23 | Jaffa | mgedmin: maemo-optify *seems* to symlink dirs |
| 13:28.30 | mgedmin | it could be people were saying that exactly because of situations of the kind you described |
| 13:28.42 | Jaffa | Indeed. |
| 13:28.56 | Jaffa | The idea of doing this on-device, rather than at package time is intriguing. |
| 13:28.56 | ccooke | mgedmin: I've used symlinks to directories for years without problems |
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| 13:29.10 | mgedmin | ccooke: of course! symlink to a new random temp name + atomic rename() to replace it |
| 13:29.23 | ccooke | mgedmin: exactly. Simple and atomic. |
| 13:29.24 | mgedmin | ccooke: in .deb packages you built? |
| 13:29.52 | ccooke | mgedmin: ah, inside the debs? Not that I recall. Sorry, misunderstood you |
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| 13:31.02 | Jaffa | m-vo: What'd stop maemo-optify creating a symlink for /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/evolution/ when /usr/lib/python2.5 is owned by a different package? |
| 13:31.05 | ccooke | Jaffa: it's safer, really. it's provable that any updates will work correctly - either they'll replace the symlink with a new file (in which case we'd need a reaper to detect the dangling links) or they'd update the files (we should keep md5s to be sure we know that happened) |
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| 13:31.29 | Jaffa | thinks he's encountered this kind of thing before when building up little Linux distros for his own usage (incl. 20MB bootable CDs) |
| 13:31.59 | Jaffa | ccooke: Indeed. And having it not polluting the source packages appeals to me architecturally |
| 13:32.19 | Jaffa | Although, the thought of a package having a bug caused by the symlink on one user's device, but not the next is a little worrying. |
| 13:32.36 | mgedmin | wishes he kept links to all his sources and could provide references when saying "I heard that ..." |
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| 13:33.05 | ccooke | Jaffa: make the tool log what its done. That'll be needed to catch dangling links, anyway - and then we can ask for the output of it when fixing bugs. |
| 13:33.05 | Jaffa | mgedmin: Google Mind? ;-) |
| 13:33.13 | Jaffa | ccooke: /me nods |
| 13:33.44 | ccooke | Jaffa: we'd need a GUI tool for this anyway, to enable the user to tell it to reclaim space - so include some package debug options there. Not just for what it does, either |
| 13:34.03 | ccooke | it's a nice and obvious place to hang arbitrary package-health-check functions. |
| 13:35.58 | Macer | hello |
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| 13:42.57 | ccooke | heh. Amusingly, the script I mentioned would be easily written using a shell-script-to-gui-toolkit approach. Could be done in an hour or two :-) |
| 13:43.56 | RST38h | Whoever has got moderator privileges at t.m.o, here is your guy: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31547 |
| 13:43.57 | frals | btw - relating to the MMS discussion earlier, just got an MMS! ;D |
| 13:44.05 | ccooke | frals: :-) |
| 13:44.43 | RST38h | (BTW, reporting spam postings also seems to be broken) |
| 13:44.44 | ccooke | RST38h: (I don't have privs, I'm jusst nosy) "No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator" |
| 13:44.58 | RST38h | ah, probably killed already |
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| 13:45.59 | frals | was it the ipurchasethread? ;D |
| 13:46.21 | RST38h | it was the same chinese spammer, carpet bombing with long lists of gadgets at low low prices |
| 13:47.04 | *** join/#maemo MaceN8x0 (n=macer@rancorous.net) |
| 13:47.06 | RST38h | has been doing it for longer than a year, too, under different accounts. Who knows what he is hoping for... |
| 13:47.22 | ccooke | RST38h: probably nothing. |
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| 13:48.22 | MaceN8x0 | er |
| 13:48.31 | MaceN8x0 | spamming for ip? |
| 13:48.34 | MaceN8x0 | :) |
| 13:48.46 | vesa | what's the 'proper' place to install your own files (ie stuff that you might create at runtime, images, text files etc) |
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| 13:51.35 | ccooke | (For anyone following the discussion about putting apps onto other storage, here's the command I'd suggest to find the best candidates for offloading: 'find /usr/ -size +16k -type f -printf "%s %p\n" | sort -n' ) |
| 13:51.54 | ccooke | (first approximation and all that :-) |
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| 13:52.38 | ccooke | (and technically that'd be sort -rn, but it's easier for humans to parse this way) |
| 13:52.44 | RST38h | vesa: ~/MyDocs |
| 13:52.58 | RST38h | vesa: ~/.* for invisible stuff |
| 13:53.26 | SpeedEvil | ccooke: you might want atime in there too |
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| 13:53.37 | RST38h | He only needs size really |
| 13:53.43 | ccooke | SpeedEvil: I'd hope the internal FS is mounted noatime |
| 13:53.53 | SpeedEvil | ccooke: oh - true |
| 13:53.56 | RST38h | And, in fact, his suggestion is somewhat incorrect |
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| 13:53.57 | ccooke | I see I've missed off the one file system check, though |
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| 13:54.26 | vesa | RST38h: isn't ~ only the 100mb? |
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| 13:54.31 | RST38h | ccooke: As you are looking to offload whole directories, not single files, "df -R /usr | sort -rn" will suffice |
| 13:54.34 | Stskeeps | gah, fucking finally |
| 13:54.42 | Stskeeps | was disconnected from the net for 2 hours |
| 13:54.50 | ccooke | RST38h: I was thinking of doing both, really |
| 13:54.53 | RST38h | Sts: is she pretty? |
| 13:54.57 | ccooke | but either way works. |
| 13:55.15 | Stskeeps | RST38h: hah, good one :P |
| 13:55.17 | RST38h | ccooke: find option won't find directories with hundreds of tiny files |
| 13:55.53 | RST38h | ccooke: df | sort will simply list your directories in order of monstrosity |
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| 13:56.16 | ccooke | RST38h: du, surely |
| 13:56.21 | RST38h | du, sorry |
| 13:56.26 | RST38h | my mistake |
| 13:57.04 | ccooke | RST38h: the problem with that is it requires more code. |
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| 13:57.21 | RST38h | how so? |
| 13:57.25 | ccooke | after all, it'll first want to move the whole of /usr/, then /usr/lib, then /usr/share... |
| 13:57.38 | ccooke | you'd need more of a blacklist |
| 13:57.42 | RST38h | ccooke: Yes, but you have got a human brain to intelligently ignore these |
| 13:57.58 | RST38h | ccooke: And by pigeon principle there won't be many of them |
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| 13:58.22 | ccooke | The sensible thing is to ban moving any direct descendant of /usr or /usr/local |
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| 14:00.05 | ccooke | Which leaves us with: |
| 14:00.06 | ccooke | du -x /usr/ | egrep -v "/usr/(local\/)?[^\/]*$" | sort -rn | head -20 |
| 14:00.20 | ccooke | (the head for readability only) |
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| 14:02.06 | ccooke | (for exactness, a ^ should be added at the start of the regex) |
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| 14:03.40 | RST38h | ccooke: Now implement the same in Tcl with output done into a Tk listbox! |
| 14:03.47 | RST38h | explodes in diabolical laughter |
| 14:04.22 | ccooke | nah. I'll do it all in shell, using /dev/tcp/localhost/6000 to open a connection to the X server and make all the X calls using echo. |
| 14:05.05 | javispedro | ccooke: this is not plan9 ;) |
| 14:05.24 | ccooke | javispedro: bah! |
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| 14:18.35 | lopz | hola |
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| 14:53.22 | RST38h | FOUND IT! |
| 14:53.52 | qwerty12 | Surely yours isn't that small? |
| 14:54.06 | wazd | qwerty12: snap! :D |
| 14:54.25 | qwerty12 | :p |
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| 14:55.03 | RST38h | it was a corporate one. |
| 14:56.33 | lardman | hey qwerty12 |
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| 14:56.51 | qwerty12 | Hi lardman :) |
| 14:56.53 | lardman | lol @ you not recognising me :) |
| 14:57.08 | lardman | I'm still on the front page afaict |
| 14:57.09 | lardman | ;) |
| 14:57.21 | lardman | or maybe my cache needs a refresh :) |
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| 14:58.31 | qwerty12 | Do I look like the sort of person that carries a magnifying glass around to be able to see tiny profile pics? :) |
| 14:58.44 | lardman | true |
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| 14:59.27 | zerojay | Yes |
| 14:59.36 | zerojay | ;) |
| 14:59.42 | qwerty12 | >.> |
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| 15:01.18 | qwerty12 | lardman: So, did anyone bypass lcuk's profanity filter? :) |
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| 15:06.21 | RST38h | wazd: Just saw something weird mentioned |
| 15:06.49 | RST38h | wazd: Have you seen guys selling SIM card packages near subway stations? |
| 15:07.24 | lardman | qwerty12: didn't try it actually :) |
| 15:07.43 | lardman | have a go this evening! |
| 15:08.17 | qwerty12 | :( - it was on the projectors outside as well. "Walk on, cunt" to all passers-by :) |
| 15:09.15 | lardman | oops |
| 15:10.03 | RST38h | qwerty: ehhehehe |
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| 15:24.25 | wazd | RST38h: yeah |
| 15:24.52 | RST38h | "Aerospace pioneer Burt Rutan said a few years ago that if we're not killing people, we're not pushing hard enough." |
| 15:25.13 | RST38h | wazd: The weird thing is, they are selling those SIMs without asking for ID |
| 15:25.18 | pupnik_ | heh @ burt |
| 15:25.22 | RST38h | wazd: Has something changed? |
| 15:26.58 | wazd | RST38h: dunno, never asked them :) |
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| 15:27.18 | RST38h | wazd: you probably wouldn't get a straight answer but it is weird as hell |
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| 15:31.28 | wazd | RST38h: I think they only sell some cheap contracts without ID requirement |
| 15:31.47 | wazd | RST38h: I saw they were sending some dude to the office itself |
| 15:31.48 | Stskeeps | or pay-as-you-go? :P |
| 15:32.36 | wazd | Stskeeps: we have contract scheme called pay-as-you-go-breath-sleep-and-eat :D |
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| 15:44.11 | lardman | if a microphone were present as a device file, say /dev/mic, could one use a GStreamer file src element to read from it? |
| 15:44.26 | lardman | assuming that no ioctls are required to enable or set it up, that is |
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| 15:48.22 | javispedro | lardman: from looking at the src, it requires the fd to be seekable. |
| 15:48.39 | lardman | hmm, not ideal |
| 15:49.01 | lardman | I'll have a look at the src lists and see if there's a special one there |
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| 15:49.30 | javispedro | lardman: ah, no, sorry |
| 15:49.41 | javispedro | GST_LOG_OBJECT (src, "disabling seeking, not in mmap mode and lseek failed: %s", g_strerror (errno)); |
| 15:49.41 | lardman | ? |
| 15:49.46 | javispedro | hehe |
| 15:49.48 | lardman | ah, so it might work |
| 15:49.55 | lardman | hmm, will have to give it a go |
| 15:49.57 | lardman | thanks :) |
| 15:50.02 | javispedro | mmap refers to a gstfilesrc property |
| 15:50.29 | lardman | mmap is disabled by default so I read |
| 15:50.42 | javispedro | ah, ok |
| 15:52.12 | zerojay | Jaffa: ping |
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| 15:54.21 | lardman | hmm, I wonder if gstaudiosrc has to be subclassed |
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| 15:54.41 | Jaffa | zerojay: pong |
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| 15:56.15 | _berto_ | http://conversations.nokia.com/2009/09/11/maemo-and-n900-many-customization-points-for-operators/ |
| 15:57.09 | zerojay | Jaffa: got that account handy? |
| 15:57.30 | qwerty12 | _berto_: Can I bribe you in infobot karma to please upload Vagalume to Fremantle's extras-devel. I miss it terribly :( |
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| 16:01.13 | _berto_ | qwerty12: i haven't made the port yet :( |
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| 16:01.23 | _berto_ | qwerty12: hopefully this month |
| 16:01.49 | qwerty12 | Thanks :) |
| 16:02.10 | _berto_ | the svn trunk comes with libre.fm support btw |
| 16:02.45 | qwerty12 | libre.fm doesn't have any artists that I like :) |
| 16:03.10 | _berto_ | :D |
| 16:03.23 | RST38h | remoo |
| 16:03.54 | Stskeeps | singing stallman? |
| 16:04.04 | javispedro | priceless. |
| 16:04.12 | qwerty12 | (Probably a good thing to the rest of you, I'm guessing, I'm always criticized on my choice of music no matter where I go..) |
| 16:04.31 | _berto_ | that happens to me too |
| 16:04.32 | _berto_ | :d |
| 16:04.43 | Stskeeps | subscribes to last.fm and is happy. |
| 16:05.15 | RST38h | singing rms vs ms piggy deathmatch |
| 16:05.31 | _berto_ | i'm a subscriber too |
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| 16:06.18 | zerojay | I used to be. |
| 16:06.28 | zerojay | Back when you got nothing in return. |
| 16:06.49 | zerojay | And now... Just the finger. |
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| 16:10.00 | frals | hmm, preordered my n900 from a swedish site, they have delivery date preliminiary as 30th of october |
| 16:10.40 | frals | hope they are just being cautious and setting a future one so it wont be delayed... or something ;o |
| 16:10.43 | mgedmin | cries |
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| 16:44.49 | pupnik_ | http://www.theprodukkt.com/kkrieger everybody seen this 96 KiloBYTE demo/game? |
| 16:46.59 | ccooke | Impressive... |
| 16:47.52 | luke-jr | pupnik_: Windows = fail |
| 16:48.54 | ccooke | luke-jr: It remains an impressive thing to acheive. |
| 16:49.02 | luke-jr | ccooke: what? |
| 16:49.25 | luke-jr | a small filesize? when everyone has GBs of space? |
| 16:50.07 | luke-jr | it demands 512 MB RAM. that's where space saving is more needed |
| 16:50.16 | derf | Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on |
| 16:50.16 | derf | /dev/sda5 90G 90G 27M 100% / |
| 16:50.24 | ccooke | luke-jr: Why? When *everyone* has GBs of RAM? :-) |
| 16:50.38 | derf | I generally have more free RAM than diskspace. |
| 16:50.38 | javispedro | ccooke: well, my 1990 laptop doesn't, and the N900 does not either. |
| 16:50.45 | derf | Mem: 2072732k total, 1639800k used, 432932k free, 53052k buffers |
| 16:50.48 | luke-jr | ccooke: most people here have at least one computer with merely 128 MB RAM |
| 16:51.21 | ccooke | javispedro: Technically, the n900 does... |
| 16:51.24 | luke-jr | also, RAM use adds up |
| 16:51.30 | luke-jr | ccooke: technically, the N900 doesn't |
| 16:51.39 | luke-jr | swap may be memory, but it sure isn't RAM |
| 16:51.42 | derf | /dev/mtdblock4 251.5M 244.1M 7.4M 97% / |
| 16:51.45 | Proteous | FIGHT! |
| 16:51.46 | ccooke | luke-jr: Depends on which technicalities you're talking about |
| 16:51.48 | derf | Mem: 111640K used, 15188K free, 0K shrd, 512K buff, 55556K cached |
| 16:51.57 | derf | Still twice as much free RAM as disk space. |
| 16:52.01 | derf | On the N810. |
| 16:52.04 | GAN800 | Passport done finally. |
| 16:52.28 | Stskeeps | so we'll see you in amsterdam? :) |
| 16:53.08 | derf | And that's not even counting cache, which is basically free RAM. |
| 16:53.20 | ShadowJK | doesn't it get slow with so little space left? |
| 16:53.28 | lardman | cu later chaps |
| 16:53.30 | ccooke | luke-jr: The thing is, it remains an impressive thing to do. To manage it - even if they need moderate amounts of RAM - and 512M is *moderate* today - is not easy. |
| 16:53.45 | ccooke | Hmm. Too many -s. |
| 16:54.17 | Mozillion | is it normal that the app manager in maemo5 beta sdk is empty and the extras/extras-devel catalogues cannot be added? |
| 16:54.33 | javispedro | Mozillion: fakeroot apt-get install fakeroot-net |
| 16:54.34 | GAN800 | Stskeeps, assuming it gets here. |
| 16:54.37 | ShadowJK | ccooke, 96k? Don't tell me they've given up with the 4k and 64k contest categories now? :) |
| 16:54.43 | Mozillion | javispedro: oh! |
| 16:54.44 | pupnik_ | that is a stunning achievement. 96kbyte. sound. 3d engine. textures. game. |
| 16:54.53 | ccooke | ShadowJK: those are impressive too. Often more so. |
| 16:55.07 | derf | pupnik_: 3d engine? Does this one actually not use OpenGL? |
| 16:55.09 | luke-jr | pupnik_: they use DirectX |
| 16:55.10 | ccooke | ShadowJK: Personally I love some of the 4K things. |
| 16:55.13 | luke-jr | derf: DirectX |
| 16:55.23 | pupnik_ | ok right directx does a lot of the transforms for them |
| 16:55.26 | pupnik_ | still |
| 16:55.27 | Mozillion | javispedro: heh, wow.. that was simple.. thanks |
| 16:55.28 | derf | Yeah. When you had your 4k demo with all-software rendering, it was impressive. |
| 16:55.53 | ShadowJK | I know some guys who made a 64k demo. They squeezed in their own software synthesizer, to have better music than what directmusic gave :) |
| 16:55.53 | Mozillion | javispedro: is it recommended that I not put extras/extras-devel in /etc/apt/sources.list then? |
| 16:55.59 | ShadowJK | sighs |
| 16:56.00 | ccooke | ShadowJK: heh, nice. |
| 16:56.01 | ShadowJK | freenode :-) |
| 16:56.07 | javispedro | Mozillion: do as you wish :) |
| 16:56.29 | zerojay | Gan800: same issue here. |
| 16:57.20 | mgedmin | was very impressed by the 4K demo Atrium last year (iirc?) |
| 16:58.39 | ccooke | mgedmin: oh, I remember that one. Very nice. |
| 16:59.17 | mgedmin | the mp3 version of the soundtrack is 5 megs |
| 16:59.35 | ccooke | *grin* |
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| 17:00.22 | ccooke | It's amazing what can be done |
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| 17:01.15 | coldboot | How do I redirect away from scratchbox's gdb? I tried putting an entry in SBOX_REDIRECT_BINARIES, both ways, and it didn't work immediately after exporting the env variable. |
| 17:01.27 | coldboot | I installed a good version of gdb in /usr/local/bin/gdb |
| 17:01.28 | Anunakin | I need some help on clone OS to SD, the problem is, I have one partition only on SD card and maemo stay to mount internal memory under first partition (and single) on external SD, any know where to change on /etc files? |
| 17:02.52 | javispedro | coldboot: using fully qualified path to launch gdb? scratchbox's utils are in $PATH |
| 17:04.29 | coldboot | How would I detect if I'm in scratchbox from within ~/.profile? |
| 17:05.32 | mgedmin | coldboot: env tells me that scratchbox sets a bunch of environment vars |
| 17:05.39 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (n=lcuk@cpc3-oldh7-0-0-cust590.manc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 17:05.39 | mgedmin | e.g. _SBOX_DIR=/scratchbox |
| 17:05.48 | mgedmin | SBOX_UNAME_MACHINE=arm |
| 17:06.05 | coldboot | Yeah ~/.profile doesn't get executed when I start scratchbox, but somehow my custom PATH directives that are set in there get transferred... |
| 17:06.13 | Anunakin | coldboot: I make it on my sbox |
| 17:06.54 | Anunakin | coldboot: My ~/.profile has it: |
| 17:06.54 | Anunakin | export PS1='\[\033[01;33m\]${target}\[\033[01;31m\] \W \$\[\033[00m\] ' |
| 17:07.15 | mgedmin | well ~/.profile inside scratchbox is different from the one outside |
| 17:07.20 | Anunakin | my .profile works well |
| 17:07.27 | *** join/#maemo flavioribeiro (n=flavio@187.64.55.24) |
| 17:07.29 | Anunakin | I see it |
| 17:07.30 | mgedmin | I thought maybe you were symlinking or bind-mounting them together |
| 17:07.50 | Anunakin | "DIABLO_ARMEL pidgin-2.6.5-alfa $" |
| 17:08.01 | Mozillion | hrm, "hildon-desktop[4191]: GLIB CRITICAL ** Clutter - clutter_actor_destroy: CLUTTER_IS_ACTOR(0x9b5b710) FAILED" when clicking in the app manager on any app.. checking the BTS |
| 17:09.10 | *** join/#maemo udovdh (n=udovdh@pindarots.xs4all.nl) |
| 17:09.16 | *** join/#maemo promulo (n=romulo@150.165.63.86) |
| 17:09.35 | *** join/#maemo TheJere (n=TheJere@83.134.193.184) |
| 17:12.41 | Anunakin | coldboot: Have you made another .profile insede sbox? |
| 17:12.54 | Anunakin | inside |
| 17:13.41 | coldboot | Anunakin: I bind mounted my home directory so it's the same home inside scratchbox. |
| 17:13.52 | Anunakin | hum |
| 17:14.20 | coldboot | Maybe someone should put gdb 6.8 in scratchbox, instead of 6.4, which can't break inside C++ constructors. |
| 17:15.02 | Anunakin | I never tried in this way, I have a folder "~/dev" bind mounted inside sbox |
| 17:15.18 | *** join/#maemo jjmarin (n=jjmarin_@84.123.173.31) |
| 17:15.32 | coldboot | Yeah just bind mount your whole home so it's like scratchbox 2. |
| 17:15.43 | coldboot | Except don't use Scratchbox 2 because it barely works. |
| 17:16.07 | Anunakin | and update python 2.3 on sbox to 2.5 or newer, too |
| 17:16.09 | mgedmin | I have a ~/scratchbox symlink pointing to /scratchbox/users/.../home/.../ |
| 17:16.11 | coldboot | Also don't `rm -rf` your scratchbox directory, because it'll trash your home directory, you have to unmount it first. I learned that the hard way. |
| 17:16.19 | mgedmin | oop |
| 17:16.21 | mgedmin | s |
| 17:16.36 | Anunakin | shit |
| 17:18.13 | Anunakin | Anyone has a working google street url to use on maemo-mapper? |
| 17:18.59 | coldboot | Okay this is retarded. |
| 17:19.09 | coldboot | Scratchbox is intercepting my calls directly to /usr/local/bin/gdb |
| 17:19.20 | mgedmin | Anunakin: does the one you get when you download repositories from the net stop working? |
| 17:19.44 | *** join/#maemo Khertan_n810 (i=507da5b6@gateway/web/freenode/x-sdjfyaajchyfuijm) |
| 17:19.45 | pupnik_ | is there a vmware image for n900 sdk? |
| 17:19.47 | mgedmin | ask a question, run away |
| 17:19.48 | coldboot | I did this: `cd gdb-6.8; gdb/gdb; (it says 6.8); cp gdb/gdb /usr/local/bin/gdb; /usr/local/bin/gdb; (it says 6.4, what the hell?)` |
| 17:19.53 | Khertan_n810 | Hi ! (again) |
| 17:20.05 | pupnik_ | hi Khertan_n810 |
| 17:20.09 | *** join/#maemo lardman (n=simon@78.145.165.218) |
| 17:20.14 | Khertan_n810 | Content is not allowed in prolog << does this gdata error message mean something for you ? |
| 17:20.17 | mgedmin | coldboot: SBOX_REDIRECT_FROM_DIRS=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin |
| 17:20.41 | Khertan_n810 | pupnik_ i didn t found any |
| 17:20.43 | mgedmin | coldboot: I suggest putting ~/bin in $PATH |
| 17:20.50 | coldboot | mgedmin: How do you edit that so it doesn't come up? |
| 17:20.56 | Khertan_n810 | pupnik_ and my try was unsuccessfull |
| 17:21.13 | *** join/#maemo Anunakin (n=fazzi@187-25-62-96.3g.claro.net.br) |
| 17:21.15 | mgedmin | coldboot: no clue, never tried this |
| 17:21.20 | Khertan_n810 | pupnik_ but if you do one, i ll be happy to use it :) |
| 17:21.38 | mgedmin | I think I remember people blogging/posting to mailing lists about how to work around scratchbox binary redirection |
| 17:21.43 | *** join/#maemo jofjdi (n=jsherman@67.72.73.34) |
| 17:21.43 | mgedmin | don't ask me for a link, though |
| 17:22.01 | *** join/#maemo igagis (n=igagis@ns2.vsev.lanck.net) |
| 17:22.11 | mgedmin | this thing I just recently saw when I was looking at env|sort inside scratchbox |
| 17:22.21 | pupnik_ | Khertan_n810: asking for a vmware image is lame and lazy though. i'd estimate not a lot of code has come out of them. |
| 17:22.24 | mgedmin | I wonder if you can change those env vars and affect sb's behaviour while inside it |
| 17:22.32 | *** join/#maemo aSIMULAter (n=me@dsl-hkibrasgw2-fef7de00-17.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:22.33 | coldboot | mgedmin: I put gdb in ~/bin, and ~/bin is in my path, and NOT in the redirect, and when I run gdb it's still redirected. |
| 17:22.46 | coldboot | So it's redirecting literal calls that are supposed to resolve to PATH as well. |
| 17:22.57 | mgedmin | is ~bin in front of $PATH or at the end? |
| 17:22.59 | Khertan_n810 | Content is not allowed in prolog <<< arg and google search is unable to found me a valuable answer |
| 17:23.11 | coldboot | mgedmin: It's in front, which gdb says: ~/bin/gdb |
| 17:23.19 | mgedmin | interesting |
| 17:23.19 | Khertan_n810 | pupnik_ ? i code on my nit and i still need a setup to test in a vm :) |
| 17:23.22 | coldboot | When I type ~/bin/gdb, it's correct, when I type gdb, it's wrong. |
| 17:23.29 | coldboot | Scratchbox is such a piece of crap. |
| 17:23.37 | mgedmin | yeah |
| 17:23.47 | pupnik_ | can you improve it?? |
| 17:23.50 | coldboot | It's got crappy, idiotic version of software installed for it, and you can't override anything. |
| 17:24.00 | coldboot | I'd rather just write software for a different platform. |
| 17:24.09 | Anunakin | yeah |
| 17:24.13 | Khertan_n810 | pupnik_ improve what google search ? |
| 17:24.31 | mgedmin | :) |
| 17:24.31 | Khertan_n810 | :) |
| 17:24.39 | Anunakin | But I got gcc 4 working on another computer |
| 17:25.16 | *** join/#maemo baze (n=baze@f051081043.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:25.32 | Khertan_n810 | ~ping |
| 17:25.33 | infobot | ~pong |
| 17:26.04 | ccooke | Hmm. People seen this? http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/nokia-clarifies-n900-can-be-customized/2009-09-11?utm_medium=rss&utm_source=rss&cmp-id=OTC-RSS-FW0 |
| 17:26.06 | Khertan_n810 | ~ping |
| 17:26.07 | infobot | ~pong |
| 17:26.19 | Anunakin | ~dong |
| 17:26.20 | infobot | ding |
| 17:26.32 | Khertan_n810 | cooke craps ! |
| 17:26.33 | zerojay | Fries are done. |
| 17:27.16 | Anunakin | I compiled pidgin 2.6.2 here, I see it has video and audio suport now, but I need more updated libs |
| 17:27.42 | Khertan_n810 | zerojay ... each time i think about fries it remember me asking at a restaurant at the maemo summit : what is french fries |
| 17:27.42 | Khertan_n810 | :) |
| 17:27.51 | ccooke | Reading it, it seems Nokia *may* be saying nothing new: It says "It would be absolutely incorrect to assume that we will not offer operators the ability to tailor future Maemo devices to suit their needs." |
| 17:27.56 | ccooke | ... which we knew. |
| 17:27.57 | Khertan_n810 | is french ... and fries arent french |
| 17:27.57 | Khertan_n810 | :) |
| 17:27.57 | *** join/#maemo MaceN8x0 (n=macer@rancorous.net) |
| 17:28.33 | zerojay | Yeah, "french" means "frenched", a way of cutting the fries. |
| 17:29.52 | Khertan_n810 | yep a bit like saying white chocolate .... this is not made with cocoa _) |
| 17:30.12 | Khertan_n810 | cacao |
| 17:30.14 | Khertan_n810 | :) |
| 17:32.23 | Khertan_n810 | Content is not allowed in prolog ... gdata really need more clear error msgs |
| 17:34.35 | Khertan_n810 | ~ping |
| 17:34.36 | infobot | ~pong |
| 17:36.00 | Anunakin | I wants see my maemo loaing on text mode, how can I do it? any knows? |
| 17:39.09 | *** join/#maemo pH5 (n=ph5@g229242132.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
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| 17:48.36 | coldboot | Great, setting watchpoints in gdb 6.8 in Maemo hangs the program. |
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| 17:52.21 | lardman | ok, so this is probably old news, but what's with the Fremantle SDK error when installing on Ubuntu that goes like this?: E: Scratchbox bind mount for user not present. |
| 17:52.45 | *** join/#maemo Guest68839 (n=n6pfkk@69.34.209.16) |
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| 17:56.39 | lardman | hmm, can't even login and proceed manually: ERROR: Scratchbox is not properly set up! |
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| 18:11.11 | fnordianslip | interesting - i've just been setting up my new sheevaplug and note that i can run powertop on it. has anyone got powertop running on their N900s yet? |
| 18:11.28 | *** part/#maemo filip42 (n=filip@ankh-morpork.disque-monde.org) |
| 18:13.35 | *** join/#maemo MaceN8x0 (n=macer@rancorous.net) |
| 18:16.56 | keesj | fnordianslip: the janty port or something else? |
| 18:17.20 | fnordianslip | keesj: yep, its jaunty on the plug |
| 18:17.32 | *** join/#maemo ShellEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 18:17.55 | keesj | also has a plug (running this irc session :p ) |
| 18:18.16 | fnordianslip | although it has a 2.6.30.2 kernel |
| 18:18.28 | fnordianslip | ooh. cool. got mine today ;-) |
| 18:18.52 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@25.84-49-132.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:19.19 | keesj | still the default kernel 2.6.22.18 |
| 18:19.23 | fnordianslip | just need the N900 to keep it company |
| 18:19.24 | keesj | 32 day's uptime |
| 18:20.00 | fnordianslip | are you in #openplug too? |
| 18:20.07 | Anunakin | where? |
| 18:20.15 | fnordianslip | freenode |
| 18:20.49 | Anunakin | no where to buy N900? |
| 18:21.13 | fnordianslip | oh, i preordered with nokia in uk |
| 18:23.19 | *** join/#maemo Luke-Jr2 (n=Luke-Jr@66.37.233.35) |
| 18:23.25 | *** part/#maemo jjmarin (n=jjmarin_@84.123.173.31) |
| 18:25.00 | keesj | fnordianslip: no |
| 18:27.25 | fnordianslip | keesj: have you tried booting from the SDHC card on the plug? i'm tempted to run the installer again and get a rootfs on the SD card and use that instead of the MTD |
| 18:28.01 | *** join/#maemo MaceN8x0 (n=macer@rancorous.net) |
| 18:30.08 | *** join/#maemo MaceN8x0 (n=macer@rancorous.net) |
| 18:30.13 | keesj | fnordianslip: no I have so many gadgets and projects ... all I really did wat a little jtag debugging on it and then put it in production |
| 18:30.56 | keesj | I did see picture of the back of the N900 when opened and there where many exposed test point. I wonder what they do |
| 18:31.28 | fnordianslip | keesj: np. me too.i have 5 computing devices within arms reach here in the lunge |
| 18:31.37 | fnordianslip | lounge, even |
| 18:32.27 | *** join/#maemo hetz (i=598b2a2a@gateway/web/freenode/x-tyfghkakxuilepji) |
| 18:32.45 | keesj | this was my last project http://www.flickr.com/photos/51025379@N00/3661174674/ a 100 euro arm laptop |
| 18:33.04 | *** join/#maemo MaceN8x0 (n=macer@rancorous.net) |
| 18:33.58 | hetz | Hi |
| 18:34.19 | hetz | Question: If a developer wants to submit a new N900 app to OVI, is it possible? |
| 18:34.48 | *** join/#maemo lardman (n=simon@78.145.165.218) |
| 18:35.32 | mgedmin | hetz: if it's an open-source app, I'd suggest submitting it to Maemo Extras |
| 18:35.43 | mgedmin | if it's not, then your question is interesting, but I've no clue about the answer |
| 18:36.03 | mgedmin | AFAIU from watching various presentations that's the plan: have ovi distribute apps for maemo |
| 18:36.24 | hetz | and if it's closed? I'm trying to write a post comparing android/iphone/maemo submitting methods |
| 18:36.27 | mgedmin | I don't know if it's possible now, or if it will only become possible at some time in the future |
| 18:36.51 | ShadowJK | I heard the sd is a bit unreliable |
| 18:36.54 | ShadowJK | on sheeva |
| 18:37.04 | *** join/#maemo MaceN8x0 (n=macer@rancorous.net) |
| 18:38.50 | fnordianslip | ShadowJK: oh,right. maybe i'll see if i can get away with cramming a build system into the MTD then, and mount an NFS share for source trees for builds |
| 18:39.45 | Stskeeps | hm, was sheevaplug armv5 or armv6+vfp or armv7? |
| 18:39.48 | Stskeeps | i keep on forgetting |
| 18:40.11 | keesj | armv5 |
| 18:40.30 | Stskeeps | ah |
| 18:40.39 | *** join/#maemo jpereira (n=jpereira@unaffiliated/jpereira) |
| 18:41.06 | pupnik_ | i'm still impressed how much -fprofile-use helped amiga emu |
| 18:41.08 | pupnik_ | i wish everybody tried it |
| 18:41.32 | *** join/#maemo smackpotato (n=user@bas4-sudbury98-1279295317.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 18:41.36 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@a213-22-69-165.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 18:44.08 | keesj | pupnik_: will do ! |
| 18:44.39 | ShadowJK | fnordianslip, I'm using a USB hub and usb stick myself |
| 18:48.14 | Anunakin | pupnik_: maybe it works on x48? |
| 18:48.19 | fnordianslip | ShadowJK: I'll keep that in mind. cheers |
| 18:48.41 | ShadowJK | I think the default uboot doesn't support SD also :) |
| 18:48.42 | Anunakin | because x48 works nice on Zaurus... and it runs very slow on N8xx |
| 18:49.15 | javispedro | is that the hp48 emu? |
| 18:49.23 | Anunakin | yes |
| 18:49.33 | fnordianslip | ShadowJK: i guess i'm not using the default u-boot as I've installed with installer v1.0 |
| 18:49.33 | javispedro | it did run at an acceptable speed in my palm t|x |
| 18:49.35 | Anunakin | javispedro: yes |
| 18:49.43 | ShadowJK | ah |
| 18:50.00 | pupnik_ | i wish someone would figure out how to do 50 or 60hz vsync'd tear-free screen updates |
| 18:50.04 | Anunakin | javispedro: I used on my PSP too |
| 18:50.13 | Anunakin | and at nice speed |
| 18:50.14 | pupnik_ | at 1/2 res |
| 18:50.32 | ShadowJK | fnordianslip, btw, "ukki" here has a .deb for accessing sheevaplug with N8x0 through N8x0 host mode USB port to sheeva's debug port :) |
| 18:51.31 | dottedmag | Accessing sheeva from n900 would like like using phone while it is charging. |
| 18:51.43 | dottedmag | *look like |
| 18:51.49 | fnordianslip | ShadowJK: that's interesting |
| 18:52.00 | slonopotamus | Sep 11 18:50:58 DSME: CAL ERROR: non-user block 'root_device' found in a user area |
| 18:52.03 | slonopotamus | yikes |
| 18:52.34 | keesj | I want to plug my logic analyzer to maemo http://www.saleae.com/logic/gallery/ |
| 18:52.38 | Stskeeps | slonopotamus: what'd you kill? :P |
| 18:52.59 | *** join/#maemo dieb_ (n=dieb@enlightenment/developer/dieb) |
| 18:53.29 | keesj | more using the nxxx to display logic signals |
| 18:53.45 | slonopotamus | Stskeeps, everything works :) i learned how to write to CAL. the problem is that i'm choosing wrong places. |
| 18:53.57 | *** join/#maemo trofi (n=slyfox@ip132-236.17.dsl.minsktelecom.by) |
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| 19:00.14 | t_s_o | so the mobile phone is slowly transforming itself into a mobile social portal... |
| 19:00.42 | ShadowJK | slowly? |
| 19:01.02 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (n=JRocha@40.86.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 19:01.03 | t_s_o | or maybe it have always been that way, its just that its gone beyond voice and text to also include images and video, especially from one to one onto one to many... |
| 19:01.05 | ShadowJK | 's only use for the mobile phone since 2005 has been irc&internet in pocket |
| 19:01.43 | t_s_o | irc? highly dependant on screen size, especially if its a high traffic channel... |
| 19:01.44 | pupnik_ | http://www.symbian-freak.com/news/009/08/n900_specifications_beyond_your_wildest_imaginations.htm |
| 19:01.47 | pupnik_ | hehe |
| 19:02.22 | ShadowJK | t_s_o, my nearly-dead E70 could fit 80 columns of text :-) |
| 19:02.27 | ShadowJK | it was perfect for ssh too |
| 19:02.43 | t_s_o | i wonder about the font size then... |
| 19:02.56 | ShadowJK | a special 6pixel font ;) |
| 19:02.58 | ShadowJK | or 7 |
| 19:03.04 | t_s_o | heh, how long until one get phone docks with video out and keyboard/mouse in? |
| 19:03.23 | RST38h | WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE!!! |
| 19:03.29 | ShadowJK | You know, right, that the N900 comes with TV-out cable as standard? |
| 19:03.32 | RST38h | (but not before N666 comes out) |
| 19:03.37 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 19:04.01 | *** join/#maemo MaceN8x0 (n=macer@rancorous.net) |
| 19:04.17 | t_s_o | indeed i know, but i was thinking about a brick that had 1-2 cables to plug in, and 5-6 going out that was permanently attached to objects on the desktop... |
| 19:04.31 | ShadowJK | on N8x0 you can fit huge amounts of text with sane font sizes where there's enough pixels to eliminate ambiguity |
| 19:04.42 | ShadowJK | ah :P |
| 19:05.42 | ShadowJK | on my new E75 that I obtained to replace the nearly-dead E70, the screen resolution is less, so I have to use a font that's almost like block of pixels |
| 19:05.56 | ShadowJK | but if you force yourself to use it, you quickly learn what the patterns are ;) |
| 19:06.17 | RST38h | ShadowJK: You sound almost like you are using 3x5 font on Spectrum... |
| 19:06.35 | ShellEvil | 3x5? Luxury! |
| 19:06.37 | ShellEvil | :) |
| 19:06.43 | ShadowJK | RST38h, well the resolution on S60 these days isn't much better than spectrum |
| 19:07.04 | ShadowJK | S60v3 I mean |
| 19:07.35 | ShadowJK | S60v5 is a bit better, but software compatibility is a bit so-so I've heard |
| 19:08.06 | RST38h | software is incompatible |
| 19:08.22 | *** join/#maemo MrGoose (n=cache@5ac515b8.bb.sky.com) |
| 19:08.27 | ShadowJK | heh :) |
| 19:08.46 | ShadowJK | hugs maemo |
| 19:09.13 | dottedmag | points at gtk->qt transition :) |
| 19:11.22 | *** join/#maemo zap (n=zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net) |
| 19:12.08 | ShadowJK | dottedmag, there will be tar and feathers (and I know where they just made 1000 litres this summer) if they don't have a new osso-xterm ;) |
| 19:12.51 | *** join/#maemo _jason1842 (n=thot@59-105-27-43.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 19:14.14 | pupnik | The Maemo tablets are now on par with high-end Nokia Nseries devices and soundly beat the pants off iPhones and Blackberries." :) |
| 19:14.22 | *** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@stgt-5d84b1a5.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 19:14.43 | RST38h | that we will have to see |
| 19:15.01 | RST38h | but I still think that blackberry is not unreachable |
| 19:15.03 | *** join/#maemo hecklejeckle (n=hangeles@173-15-176-105-BusName-Philadelphia.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 19:15.40 | *** part/#maemo hecklejeckle (n=hangeles@173-15-176-105-BusName-Philadelphia.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 19:16.01 | RST38h | implement same functionality, make deals with a few large companies, maybe supplying N900s as an added value in some larger contract on communication equipment |
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| 19:18.01 | ShadowJK | Their existing customers of that kind will only buy it if it's Nokia's new "Communicator"-class. So they'd have to make a new N900, call it N9000, make it a bit bigger because the Communicator class is like americans and SUVs; screw practicality and logic, make it big and heavy so that people can see you paid stupid amounts of money |
| 19:18.17 | ShadowJK | where "a bit" means twice as big |
| 19:18.23 | mgedmin | interesting |
| 19:18.36 | mgedmin | I always thought "tiny and shiny" screamed about stupid amounts of money |
| 19:19.29 | ShadowJK | Yeah if I had more money I'd get a Smart car |
| 19:19.44 | mavhc | put 2 apple logos on it, those things cost $100s each apparently |
| 19:19.49 | frals | all the smarts ive seen around has screamed "death trap" |
| 19:19.53 | RST38h | blackberries are pretty small though |
| 19:20.17 | mavhc | frals: only in usa where they're on the same road as the tanks people there drive |
| 19:20.17 | *** part/#maemo jefe_186 (i=DJ-FunkM@87.106.255.80) |
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| 19:20.33 | keesj | pupnik: any good url about profile-use? |
| 19:20.45 | frals | i wouldnt want to be in one crashing in to anything except maybe a fiat punto |
| 19:21.08 | frals | any volvo would crush the smart as it seems to have about zero deformation zones |
| 19:21.21 | ShellEvil | It is apparantly very rigid. |
| 19:21.35 | mavhc | if it killed you they couldn't sell it |
| 19:21.35 | RST38h | does smart do pretty well in crash tests? |
| 19:21.53 | frals | only seen the tiny 2 seaters thou - do they have any bigger model? |
| 19:22.13 | RST38h | yea |
| 19:22.15 | GAN800 | I bet the car does, but the people inside may be another issue. |
| 19:22.22 | RST38h | there is smart-for-2 and smart-for-4 |
| 19:22.25 | ShellEvil | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6t-yyoU8s |
| 19:22.28 | ShellEvil | smart |
| 19:22.40 | ShadowJK | Apparently smart has a five-star crash test rating |
| 19:22.48 | RST38h | out of 12? |
| 19:22.55 | ShadowJK | 5 |
| 19:22.56 | frals | what does volvo have then, a 100? :D |
| 19:22.59 | frals | cool |
| 19:23.04 | GAN800 | But only against other Smarts. |
| 19:23.29 | ShellEvil | Including 70MPH crash into a wall |
| 19:23.29 | GAN800 | When you pit it against SUVs there's no data left to collect. |
| 19:23.30 | ShellEvil | R/C fun. |
| 19:23.40 | mavhc | are SUVs more wall like than walls? |
| 19:23.49 | ShadowJK | But you know, take a Volvo in the US, bring it to europe for crash testing, and it probably gets two stars. Take a five-star volvo from europe to US for crash testing and it probably gets 2 stars. Car manufacturers are slimey assholes and only design the cars for the tests :-) |
| 19:24.02 | GAN800 | mavhc, SUVs are moving. |
| 19:24.12 | GAN800 | So, yes. |
| 19:24.15 | RST38h | GAN: Hate to disappoint you but there is a catch with US SUVs |
| 19:24.22 | mavhc | so you want a 140 mph wall crash test? |
| 19:24.39 | RST38h | GAN: Many of them are basically trucks with passenger cabs |
| 19:24.42 | GAN800 | No, I want a practical car. :D |
| 19:24.55 | GAN800 | RST38h, not many, most. |
| 19:24.58 | RST38h | GAN: Because they are rated as trucks, manufacturers can skip on safety |
| 19:25.01 | RST38h | GAN: Yep |
| 19:25.35 | slonopotamus | cal_read_block(wlan-iq-align): size zero, block not found? |
| 19:25.38 | slonopotamus | yikes |
| 19:25.48 | GAN800 | Only the very small ones like the RAV 4 and CRV are based on car platforms. |
| 19:26.00 | RST38h | GAN: And the ones that are not, have minivan-like problems (a hit into the side is really nad in them, as they expose big, soft surface on the sides) |
| 19:26.07 | slonopotamus | how i repair CAL area? :) |
| 19:26.14 | ShadowJK | It's funny how bad SUVs are on bad roads |
| 19:26.17 | GAN800 | RST38h, but you've completely missed the point of my SUV example. |
| 19:26.22 | RST38h | GAN: CRV is actually considered a truck |
| 19:26.28 | frals | hmm watch that smart vid |
| 19:26.32 | GAN800 | It's an Accord frame. |
| 19:26.35 | frals | not much legs left after that concrete smash |
| 19:26.39 | RST38h | GAN: Dunno why, it is an Accord with the mechanics from 4WD Civic |
| 19:27.11 | RST38h | GAN: Real bad in side impact, unfortunately. |
| 19:27.27 | GAN800 | The reason I mention the SUV is because those are the vehicless that you have to contend with in accidents here, not because I believe them to be safer vehicles. :) |
| 19:27.41 | RST38h | GAN: But yes, if you are hitting a Smart in a 3-ton SUV, Smart stands no chance |
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| 19:29.50 | ShellEvil | Depends. |
| 19:30.20 | ShellEvil | If the impact speed is low enough that you care about body damage - to the car - you may well be OK |
| 19:30.28 | ShadowJK | like that episode of mythbusters where they tried to smash a compact car by putting it in the middle between two semitrucks speeding towards eachother |
| 19:30.29 | ShellEvil | I mean - body deformation |
| 19:30.47 | *** join/#maemo amaurymedeiros (n=amaury@150.165.63.86) |
| 19:30.59 | ShellEvil | If you care about decelleration to the humans inside - then you need mass*crumplezones |
| 19:31.02 | slonopotamus | does n8x0 brick if you erase CAL data? :) |
| 19:31.07 | Stskeeps | possibly. |
| 19:31.10 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (n=JRocha@91.117.86.40) |
| 19:31.11 | Stskeeps | partition table is there |
| 19:31.14 | Stskeeps | afaik |
| 19:31.58 | mgedmin | every time people talk about CAL, I assume it's about Maemo 5 calendaring software |
| 19:31.59 | slonopotamus | is it reflashable? |
| 19:32.03 | mgedmin | which makes some of the statements funny |
| 19:32.13 | slonopotamus | mgedmin, /dev/mtd3. |
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| 19:34.17 | Stskeeps | slonopotamus: i'm not sure if you are able to recover from a dead CAL, but i'm not sure |
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| 19:35.01 | slonopotamus | hmm |
| 19:35.04 | Stskeeps | personally wouldn't risk it |
| 19:35.19 | slonopotamus | Stskeeps, didn't partition layout change in diablo? |
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| 19:36.38 | slonopotamus | mgedmin, mtd1 i meant |
| 19:39.08 | Stskeeps | slonopotamus: true |
| 19:41.37 | slonopotamus | Stskeeps, did it change bootloader/config area? |
| 19:41.52 | Stskeeps | i have no idea tbh |
| 19:44.21 | slonopotamus | meh. i possibly should create cold flash cable before destroying stuff :) |
| 19:44.33 | pupnik | hope to see maemo on 150 euro phones someday |
| 19:45.26 | lbt | ccooke: hi |
| 19:45.31 | adeus | as soon as the realize symbian is a dead end.. |
| 19:45.42 | RST38h | will they? |
| 19:45.56 | lbt | symbian is being made OSS |
| 19:46.11 | lbt | thinks it will be handed over to "the community" |
| 19:46.25 | adeus | "the community" should burn it with fire |
| 19:46.37 | pupnik | who here has coded for symbian? |
| 19:46.38 | lbt | and used if nokia product managers deem it appropriate |
| 19:46.58 | RST38h | lbt: What is worse, judging from the new logo design, the remaining Symbian team is on some heavy drugs |
| 19:47.12 | Stskeeps | wouldn't you be if you developed symbian? |
| 19:47.13 | lbt | is just guessing from a symbian presentation I saw a few weeks ago |
| 19:47.21 | RST38h | codes for symbian |
| 19:47.26 | lbt | heh |
| 19:47.28 | lbt | figures |
| 19:47.29 | Stskeeps | i meant, developing the system |
| 19:47.34 | adeus | I have |
| 19:47.42 | adeus | right now I code qt for the s60 |
| 19:47.56 | RST38h | adeus: Have they finally introduced main()? =) |
| 19:47.56 | lbt | RST38h:never mind.... you've got to make a good decision one day |
| 19:48.07 | RST38h | Or is it still 4-5 classes just to show "hello world"? |
| 19:48.09 | zerojay | Lol |
| 19:48.21 | adeus | of course it is |
| 19:48.32 | adeus | but in qt it's happy campers |
| 19:48.34 | zerojay | If he makes money on symbian still, how is it not a good decision? |
| 19:48.57 | adeus | the make most of the money with s40:s |
| 19:49.00 | adeus | they |
| 19:49.04 | RST38h | abstracted most of ÿï«ï½ÿï¸ÿÿÿ ÿÿÿï½ |
| 19:49.10 | RST38h | Symbian away |
| 19:49.54 | adeus | right now I use the N97 which is the flagship of symbian probably |
| 19:50.04 | adeus | and it still feels and looks like a symbian thing |
| 19:50.37 | adeus | compared to the N900 home screen this is bitch ass ugly |
| 19:50.57 | ShadowJK | Oh, with tne N97 mini they made the rootfs bigger. Why isn't anyone whining about why "we" didn't get bigger rootfs on N900 ;p |
| 19:50.58 | *** join/#maemo acouto (n=adriano@201.56.102.13) |
| 19:50.59 | RST38h | S60 may be ugly, but it is perfectly usable |
| 19:51.07 | ccooke | lbt: ah, you're back |
| 19:51.10 | RST38h | So I would not bury it right away |
| 19:51.16 | lbt | yup |
| 19:51.27 | adeus | and they won't |
| 19:52.11 | ccooke | S60 is a mature platform. Maemo simply can't compete with it in most of the niches it's deployed |
| 19:52.20 | adeus | and there's quite a lot of software for it done |
| 19:52.25 | RST38h | Weeeelll |
| 19:52.25 | ccooke | (small screen, cheap devices, for a start!) |
| 19:52.36 | mgedmin | how important is 3rd party software on a phone? |
| 19:52.39 | mgedmin | are there any studies? |
| 19:52.43 | RST38h | Maemo is really easy to develop for so it is not that difficult to get it up to speed |
| 19:53.03 | RST38h | mgedmin: My crystal balls say 90% of people use phones to call other peple |
| 19:53.05 | mgedmin | do people buy devices because they can install random apps, or do they buy devices because the devices do what they want out of the box? |
| 19:53.22 | RST38h | Second |
| 19:53.22 | adeus | personally I want SportsTracker for my N900 :) |
| 19:53.22 | mgedmin | geeks like me buy devices because they run linux |
| 19:53.25 | ccooke | RST38h: but you don't make a change like that all at once. You do it piecemeal, and usually picking a starting point - say, high-end smartphones - and expanding. |
| 19:53.42 | RST38h | ccooke: Hence 5-step plan |
| 19:54.15 | ShellEvil | Or high-end-unlocked-geek smartphones |
| 19:54.19 | ccooke | RST38h: more than that. Unless the wait for step 5 is much longer than they've mentioned, anyway |
| 19:54.19 | ShadowJK | mgedmin, if it came preinstalled with everything I wanted, maybe... nah.. besides, nobody would make phone with preinstalled ssh, vnc, irc, etc :P |
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| 19:54.27 | ShellEvil | IMO nokia has a bigger problem if they start too slow |
| 19:54.39 | mgedmin | ShadowJK: OpenMoko tried |
| 19:54.48 | ShellEvil | mgedmin: no, they diddn';t. |
| 19:54.49 | RST38h | mgedmin: this is actually relatively easy to estimate |
| 19:54.56 | mgedmin | but even I didn't want to buy that one... |
| 19:55.12 | RST38h | mgedminL look at sales of cheap voice-oriented phones vs sales of feature phone vs sales of smartphones |
| 19:55.18 | ShellEvil | mgedmin: They _really_ diddn't. OpenMoko claimed they were trying - however - they diddn't actually do sane things that would have lead to an actual product. |
| 19:55.26 | ShadowJK | if openmoko had a keyboard I'd probably have one |
| 19:55.33 | ccooke | ShellEvil: thing is... remember that Nokia are still the world leader in phones. |
| 19:55.46 | mgedmin | if openmoko had working software, I'd've bought one |
| 19:55.51 | ShellEvil | mgedmin: OpenMoko had hardware and software that could have lead to a working phone in christmas 2007. |
| 19:55.55 | ccooke | They have enough of a lead to take it slowly... but not *too* slowly. |
| 19:56.02 | mgedmin | software is *hard* |
| 19:56.04 | ShellEvil | mgedmin: But they utterly blew it through bad managment. |
| 19:56.16 | ccooke | ShellEvil: how unusual for a bunch of geeks :-/ |
| 19:56.16 | RST38h | ShellEvil: If mommy had balls she would be daddy |
| 19:56.18 | mgedmin | look how long it took for maemo to almost-not-suck |
| 19:56.23 | adeus | ccooke, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_mobile_phones |
| 19:56.37 | ShellEvil | mgedmin: by working software I mean stuff like a working dialer, SMS, ... and linux. I do not mean a fully polished app suite. |
| 19:56.38 | adeus | that's a good stat always to remember :) |
| 19:57.04 | ccooke | adeus: yep |
| 19:57.12 | adeus | t+ |
| 19:57.14 | adeus | 200M |
| 19:57.20 | adeus | that's almost insane |
| 19:57.25 | mgedmin | okay, I admit I used the word "working" in the sense "fully polished" |
| 19:57.30 | ShadowJK | ooh, Nokia 2100 :D |
| 19:57.30 | ShellEvil | RST38h: I'm attempting to point out that OpenMoko is a poor example due to their bad managment. For example changing window stacks 3 times. And insisting that new hardware would fix it all |
| 19:57.35 | adeus | at one point everyone in filnand had a 3310 |
| 19:57.39 | adeus | Finland.. |
| 19:57.41 | mgedmin | although IIRC the phone software used to crash a lot, which is not "working" even by your definition |
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| 19:58.06 | ShellEvil | mgedmin: In march 2007 it was stable enough for me - then that software stack got thrown away |
| 19:58.11 | RST38h | ShellEvil: Doesn't this happen to all linux gadget startups? |
| 19:58.49 | ccooke | RST38h: no, just the ones you hear about most ;-) |
| 19:58.57 | ShellEvil | RST38h: perhaps - this one had structural problems in the place they established - the corporate culture was _very_ anti-open-source. |
| 19:58.57 | RST38h | ah |
| 19:59.04 | ShadowJK | You know what's awesome about nokia's lowend phones? They're indestructible. A guy at work lost his phone. He tracked his movements of the day, and concluded it must've fallen into the lake on his fishing trip. After some searching he found it on the bottom of the lake and fished it up, removed the battery and sim card and let it sit for a couple of days, put back the card and battery, and it just worked(tm) |
| 19:59.28 | RST38h | how did he find it? |
| 19:59.49 | mavhc | he didn't track the gps on a website |
| 20:00.15 | ShellEvil | RST38h: But - for example - a new UI stack getting dropped on the community - with the only notice being the company president a couple of months beforehand saying 'something really cool is coming up' - you have to _really_ try hard to screw up to that sort of degree. |
| 20:00.27 | ShadowJK | RST38h, it had fallen out near the shore when he lifted up the engine when the water became too shallow |
| 20:00.43 | RST38h | ahhh |
| 20:00.48 | RST38h | lucky |
| 20:00.48 | adeus | ShadowJK, I once dropped my 3310 into a pint of beer |
| 20:00.56 | adeus | dried it, and still worked just fine |
| 20:01.13 | ShadowJK | once coughed on his siemens cellphone |
| 20:01.18 | ccooke | Actually, my n810 has survived a fair bit of water |
| 20:01.19 | frals | 3310 was indestructible |
| 20:01.23 | ShadowJK | it died |
| 20:01.24 | ShadowJK | (true story) |
| 20:01.41 | ccooke | although not immersion :-) |
| 20:02.32 | adeus | I've visited the lab here that tests the durability |
| 20:02.44 | adeus | they do quite a lot |
| 20:02.58 | ShadowJK | there's a video of one of the labs, on youtube :) |
| 20:03.06 | ccooke | (I usually keep it in my shirt pocket... and got caught out by the most sudden and severe rainstorm I can remember... while I had both my hands full. Technically, it was under about an inch of water in my pocket (yes, literally) for about five minutes while I got to the tube station |
| 20:03.08 | ShadowJK | the highspeed camera view of the drop test is awesome :D |
| 20:03.08 | pupnik | http://openpandora.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/new_keymat.jpg new keymat |
| 20:03.43 | pupnik | is there online video of n900 mp4 recordings? |
| 20:04.28 | slonopotamus | hmm. usb<->rs232 cable is just $5 |
| 20:04.32 | ccooke | a few days with the battery out, though, and it's absolutely fine. Although I'd swear the battery shrunk - it's a little loose, and I find now that I have to put a bit of wadded up paper in the compartment to stop a sudden knock powering me it off :-) |
| 20:05.03 | frals | :D |
| 20:05.27 | *** join/#maemo L0cMini9 (n=kki@94.160.30.230) |
| 20:05.35 | ccooke | How I didn't notice this before I have no idea. Thus I am left to conclude that it must have shrunk :-) |
| 20:05.52 | ShellEvil | Water isn't that bad. What I recommend is: Dissasemble as much as possible - wash in hot water with detergent - getting as much under the chips as you can. Rinse in hot distilled water. Dry in oven at 80C for a day. |
| 20:06.04 | ShellEvil | This is of course if it's dirty or salty water. |
| 20:06.08 | ShadowJK | ccooke, did you have the typical rattle before immersion? :) |
| 20:06.12 | ShellEvil | And always yank the battery immediately |
| 20:06.18 | *** join/#maemo JoeBrain (n=JoeBrain@173.8.184.9) |
| 20:06.58 | ccooke | ShellEvil: I was on my way to a LARP event. Campsite for three days. I just took the battery out and tried it again every now and then |
| 20:07.56 | ShellEvil | If it's just clean water - then simply the oven step |
| 20:08.02 | ShellEvil | or a hot place with lots of airflow |
| 20:08.09 | ShellEvil | airing cupboard is good. |
| 20:08.14 | *** join/#maemo ustunozgur_ (n=ustun@88.252.67.221) |
| 20:08.36 | ccooke | (actually, the level of brokenness was interesting to see: flickering brightness while it was still wet, then no backlight the first time I tried it, then flickering video on the way home... I thought for a while it was permanently broken, until I realised it was the battery being loose. |
| 20:08.56 | ccooke | ShellEvil: distilled water helps, if you have it |
| 20:09.42 | ShellEvil | ccooke: I have several bottles - from my dehumidifier. |
| 20:09.50 | ShellEvil | It's not exactly the same thing - but it's pretty pure |
| 20:10.18 | ShellEvil | _lots_ higher resistance - fewer ionic solids - than my tapwater |
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| 21:04.23 | wazd | I'm back :) |
| 21:04.38 | qwerty12 | wb |
| 21:04.47 | RST38h | welcome |
| 21:05.19 | *** join/#maemo ShellEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 21:05.35 | lbt | ping |
| 21:05.51 | zerojay | Barf |
| 21:05.52 | wazd | So, I see everybody finaly understood tht nokia will allow to custmize n900 but without limitations :) |
| 21:05.55 | *** join/#maemo lbt (n=david@78.32.229.233) |
| 21:06.09 | RST38h | that was kinda obvious wasn't it? |
| 21:06.36 | wazd | RST38h: well, mass-media didn't think so :) |
| 21:07.09 | zerojay | Mass media was reporting on the n900? |
| 21:07.25 | RST38h | wazd: bloggers you mean... |
| 21:07.52 | *** join/#maemo jofjdi (n=jsherman@user-10lfcke.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 21:08.11 | wazd | It's pretty stupid to think that nokia will slap the hands of careers no allowing to modify cause it's damn opposite way of "openess" :) |
| 21:08.25 | javispedro | hey, I've seen printed articles about the n900... |
| 21:08.33 | RST38h | there are really three different actions there: |
| 21:08.36 | zerojay | You have? |
| 21:08.48 | RST38h | 1) adding custom stuff 2) locking custom stuff 3) removing features |
| 21:09.03 | javispedro | I have? :) |
| 21:09.21 | RST38h | #1 is pretty harmless so why not? |
| 21:09.39 | RST38h | #2 is also relatively tolerable at least for Nokia |
| 21:09.39 | zerojay | I've never seen a print article about the tablets. |
| 21:09.45 | wazd | RST38h: I remember great quote of Walt MossPuppet: "Hey, I've sent you a link! -Hey!! I've sent you a link too! Great! We're journalists!" :D |
| 21:09.50 | zerojay | Or ever seen anyone else with one. |
| 21:09.53 | javispedro | zerojay: me neither. |
| 21:10.06 | RST38h | wazd: Bloggers are such...mm...bloggers. |
| 21:10.39 | javispedro | but the n900 is not a tablet, but a "new phone" :P |
| 21:10.52 | wazd | javispedro: well, it is :) |
| 21:10.56 | RST38h | javis: wrong, it is a mobile computer :) |
| 21:10.57 | zerojay | Maemo device then. Heh. |
| 21:11.20 | javispedro | The mass media "article" i'm thinking of said "phone". |
| 21:13.03 | JoeBrain | doesn't the Nokia website say "communications computer" ? :D |
| 21:13.13 | RST38h | that's new |
| 21:13.16 | javispedro | "linux gizmo" |
| 21:13.23 | RST38h | anyway, it's a comlog |
| 21:13.37 | RST38h | let us just call it comlog and stop at that |
| 21:13.48 | zerojay | They've been calling all their phones multimedia devices for so long now. |
| 21:13.54 | RST38h | since n95 |
| 21:14.05 | JoeBrain | comlog/ |
| 21:14.07 | JoeBrain | ? |
| 21:14.07 | RST38h | and every new model was marketed as the FIST multimedia computer |
| 21:14.20 | zerojay | Lol |
| 21:14.20 | JoeBrain | lol FIST? |
| 21:14.32 | javispedro | has a multimedia computer dumbphone |
| 21:14.35 | zerojay | Chuck norris' phone. |
| 21:14.41 | zerojay | The FIST |
| 21:14.52 | RST38h | fiRst |
| 21:15.07 | JoeBrain | ah I thought it was some dumb acronym :) |
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| 21:17.01 | wazd | arent these bumper stickers suppose to be fun? :) |
| 21:17.27 | RST38h | only if you have a car =) |
| 21:18.33 | wazd | Tim is proposing some rather serious but a little boring stuff http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=325558 |
| 21:19.39 | ShellEvil | I don't see a reason for 'collaborative' |
| 21:19.41 | RST38h | he is too serious. the whole council is too serious. |
| 21:20.07 | RST38h | ShellEvil: well, at least the word "paradigm" has not been used. |
| 21:20.18 | ShellEvil | true |
| 21:20.29 | ShellEvil | Also - the device list is pointles |
| 21:21.00 | RST38h | "open source community" is a generic entity |
| 21:21.09 | RST38h | does not say anything new or interesting |
| 21:21.17 | ShellEvil | yeha |
| 21:21.21 | wazd | RST38h: well, comment there :) |
| 21:21.25 | ShellEvil | 'Free your phone' - or something |
| 21:21.41 | zerojay | Maemo.org - we do shit |
| 21:21.45 | ShellEvil | but 'Free your internet connected computing device which may or may not have a cellular modem integrated' ... |
| 21:22.07 | wazd | "Please, open your trunk, Sir" :D |
| 21:22.30 | ShellEvil | 'We know these open-source people - look at reiser - killers - the lot of them' |
| 21:22.39 | zerojay | Lol |
| 21:22.47 | wazd | Maemo.org - nerd alert trigger :D |
| 21:23.02 | zerojay | Bastard. Made me lol on the bus. |
| 21:23.09 | zerojay | For real. |
| 21:23.29 | zerojay | Everyone's staring. |
| 21:23.41 | wazd | zerojay: nerd alert! :) |
| 21:24.32 | *** join/#maemo dieb__ (n=dieb@201-66-146-11.cslce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 21:24.48 | zerojay | Heh, damn straight. |
| 21:24.56 | qwerty12 | In Quebec, you do not laugh. |
| 21:25.02 | javispedro | nokia pedo logo ftw ;) |
| 21:25.12 | zerojay | Haha. |
| 21:25.27 | zerojay | Well, i did laugh really loudly, heh. |
| 21:25.35 | zerojay | Headphones. |
| 21:25.49 | ShellEvil | has an image of some confused marketer using the bear with ipodesque headphones. |
| 21:26.34 | lbt | ping |
| 21:26.46 | *** join/#maemo lbt (n=david@78.32.229.233) |
| 21:26.52 | zerojay | Pong |
| 21:28.54 | wazd | In fact, I don't understand people that stare at laughing man |
| 21:29.01 | JoeBrain | I think the bumper sticker needs a different tag line than both of those |
| 21:29.13 | wazd | He's not jerking or pooping in the bus, he's just happy |
| 21:29.29 | RST38h | maybe he is a terrorist? |
| 21:29.44 | wazd | RST38h: terrorists usualy poop :D |
| 21:29.56 | RST38h | before or after the laugh? =) |
| 21:30.00 | ShellEvil | It can't be a tagline that only the involved will understand either |
| 21:30.22 | wazd | RST38h: same time :) |
| 21:30.41 | wazd | ShellEvil: well, that's my point |
| 21:30.57 | JoeBrain | OOoooooh I like Maemo forum's captcha system. |
| 21:31.18 | JoeBrain | ShellEvil: especially when the non-involved might be misled into thinking it's something else entirely.. |
| 21:31.25 | wazd | ShellEvil: I actually came up with "I have loads of stuff in my trunk" - it's funny for those who don't know and it's understandable and funny for those who do :) |
| 21:31.48 | JoeBrain | "Loads of Packages in my Trunk" sounds... umm... |
| 21:31.54 | *** part/#maemo zerojay (n=zerojay@74.198.12.3) |
| 21:31.55 | JoeBrain | adult. |
| 21:31.58 | ShellEvil | recaptcha is good |
| 21:32.02 | RST38h | s/trunk/trunks |
| 21:32.09 | wazd | JoeBrain: oh yeah, packages, not stuff :D |
| 21:32.12 | RST38h | laughs diabolically |
| 21:32.37 | qwerty12 | "my humps, my humps..." |
| 21:33.53 | wazd | qwerty12: that's what she said :) |
| 21:34.12 | JoeBrain | actually it is what she said :P |
| 21:34.35 | qwerty12 | yes, i remember. it was a good night |
| 21:35.01 | wazd | qwerty12: I still remember it was you who dated infobot :D |
| 21:35.49 | qwerty12 | who said that i still don't? |
| 21:36.02 | wazd | qwerty12: ooooh, it's so cute :D |
| 21:36.42 | qwerty12 | infobot, $50 |
| 21:36.43 | infobot | ACTION takes the cash and sucks qwerty12 off |
| 21:36.43 | wazd | RST38h: btw, I have enlarged windows in my appartments now, so it's pretty cool to laugh diablically while standing in front :D |
| 21:37.07 | RST38h | wazd: Only if you have got a doomsday weapon in the background |
| 21:37.40 | RST38h | wazd: or at least an audiophile-grade audio amplifier with Huge glowing tubes |
| 21:37.45 | wazd | RST38h: well, does good 'ol wooden piano counts? :) |
| 21:37.58 | RST38h | wazd: Is there a human skull on it? =) |
| 21:38.19 | wazd | RST38h: not yet :) |
| 21:38.47 | RST38h | it is almost a required accessory =) |
| 21:39.24 | RST38h | <sleep> |
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| 21:57.42 | pupnik | The main motivation for VAAPI (Video Acceleration API) is to enable hardware accelerated video decode/encode at various entry-points (VLD, IDCT, Motion Compensation etc.) for the prevailing coding standards today (MPEG-2, MPEG-4 ASP/H.263, MPEG-4 AVC/H.264, and VC-1/VMW3). http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/vaapi |
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| 22:37.12 | GAN800 | slaps zerojay. |
| 22:37.35 | GAN800 | maemo.org is never capitalized. |
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| 22:45.34 | zerojayPC | lol |
| 22:45.51 | zerojayPC | Blame the tablet. |
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| 23:01.17 | Jaffa | re |
| 23:01.50 | Jaffa | crashanddie, lcuk, luovanto and I have just come up with the *coolest* Rock Band/Guitar Hero/Rock Drummer game idea for the N900 |
| 23:02.12 | Jaffa | I'd upload a video, but Bluetooth is being annoying and I can't be arsed to get out a USB cable |
| 23:02.29 | wazd | Jaffa: Multitask first :D |
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| 23:04.11 | wazd | curses the fucking 1.5 GB patch for the game |
| 23:05.24 | *** join/#maemo Federico2 (n=fede@unaffiliated/federico2) |
| 23:09.08 | rkirti | heh |
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| 23:12.51 | ShellEvil | Jaffa: video recognition of air guitar? |
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| 23:13.09 | ShellEvil | Jaffa: can also do air-drums, air-trumpet, and air-glockenspiel. |
| 23:13.33 | ShellEvil | Air-one-man-band may be overdoing it. |
| 23:15.12 | Captain_Picard | does n900 also got virtual gun?! |
| 23:15.46 | Jaffa | ShellEvil: Microphone + accelerometer + table |
| 23:15.52 | Captain_Picard | points to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlzoL-wQwio&feature=related |
| 23:17.04 | Captain_Picard | i want that to my n900 |
| 23:19.38 | lardman | Jaffa: having a nice evening I take it? :) |
| 23:20.08 | lardman | qwerty12: I missed you, sorry |
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| 23:20.56 | Jaffa | lardman: Apart from having to rush to get the last train home |
| 23:21.22 | Jaffa | And Jussi's taste in food is as bad as his taste in music. KFC indeed! |
| 23:21.32 | Jaffa | At least we ended up in Nando's rather than KFC. |
| 23:21.34 | Jaffa | No bacon. But beer. |
| 23:21.48 | lardman | Jaffa: I had the same problem yesterday :) |
| 23:22.04 | lardman | lol, we had a proper sit-down yesterday |
| 23:22.35 | Jaffa | Bah, I'm old hat now |
| 23:22.42 | Jaffa | No pushing the boat out to impress me! |
| 23:23.08 | lardman | just 'cos it was so late we couldn't be arsed to walk anywhere :) |
| 23:23.14 | lardman | you on the train now then? |
| 23:23.19 | Jaffa | up |
| 23:23.31 | Jaffa | Tapping into first class' free wifi |
| 23:23.34 | Jaffa | (arbitrary MAC address FTW) |
| 23:23.42 | lardman | very good :) |
| 23:23.45 | Jaffa | At least 40 mins before getting into Rugby |
| 23:24.02 | lardman | I walked in the door at 2am yesterday |
| 23:24.11 | lardman | bloody train took 2hrs to get home |
| 23:24.18 | Jaffa | Mrs Jaffa ain't going to be happy |
| 23:24.29 | lardman | Mrs Lardman wasn't too pleased either |
| 23:24.31 | lardman | :) |
| 23:24.36 | Jaffa | Or awake |
| 23:24.52 | lardman | I think that was the problem, she woke up when I got back :D |
| 23:25.12 | Jaffa | Doh! |
| 23:25.26 | lardman | it was a long day, I was stumbling around a little I admit |
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| 23:27.17 | Jaffa | "long day" ;-) |
| 23:27.55 | lardman | I did have to sit through 3 hours of lectures in the morning, and drink wine at lunch time, so was quite tired come the evening :) |
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| 23:31.36 | lardman | anyway my evening of coding didn't quite work out, will have to crack on tomorrow |
| 23:31.37 | lardman | :) |
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| 23:37.18 | lardman | wishes the Ubuntu search was easier to use |
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| 23:57.54 | bobbyd | hi |
| 23:58.23 | *** join/#maemo endorphinum (n=Miranda@c217010.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 23:58.31 | bobbyd | I was wondering if there's any support for sipe (the office communicator protocol) in any maemo app, or if it's possible to run Pidgin? |
| 23:58.31 | endorphinum | gooood morning everyone :) |
| 23:58.46 | bobbyd | I'm considering getting an n900 over an iphone |
| 23:58.57 | endorphinum | bobby: u better do |
| 23:59.10 | ShellEvil | Or we Keeeeeel you! |
| 23:59.14 | bobbyd | if I can connect to the office IM server, that would do it for me |
| 23:59.17 | ShellEvil | (well - probably not.) |
| 23:59.22 | bobbyd | what does the chat in the n900 use? |
| 23:59.31 | bobbyd | ShellEvil: there's a plugin for pidgin |
| 23:59.39 | ShellEvil | I do know that you can definately use pidgin - though I'm unsure if it's the default |
| 23:59.46 | bobbyd | I use that under Ubuntu and it works well |
| 23:59.57 | endorphinum | shelll: pdigin might be all you need :) |
