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| 00:45.17 | johnx | looks forward to numpty physics + accelerometer |
| 00:46.01 | b-man16 | :) |
| 00:46.11 | GeneralAntilles | wishes he could jam the N800 stylus in the DS. |
| 00:47.08 | johnx | wishes he could jam some DS devs into Maemo :D |
| 00:47.49 | b-man16 | lol |
| 00:50.30 | b-man16 | GeneralAntilles: i'm shure that could be possible if you could figure out a way to mod the case - although i could be wrong ;) |
| 00:50.52 | GeneralAntilles | Duct tape and a plastic straw. |
| 00:50.59 | b-man16 | xD |
| 00:52.23 | SpeedEvil | Powerdrill. |
| 00:52.29 | b-man16 | >:) |
| 00:54.00 | b-man16 | could see someone doing that xD |
| 00:56.29 | Mace_N8x0 | haha |
| 00:56.48 | Mace_N8x0 | statistically someone does everything |
| 00:57.57 | johnx | that someone must lead a very exciting life |
| 00:58.30 | johnx | Mace_N8x0, ah, you're back. I've been dying to know: why are you trying to be able to display 3D graphics before init runs? |
| 00:59.01 | Mace_N8x0 | haha |
| 00:59.06 | johnx | is this going to be the most awesome kernel-side loading screen ever? |
| 00:59.11 | Mace_N8x0 | 3D splash screen |
| 00:59.16 | Mace_N8x0 | :) |
| 00:59.19 | Mace_N8x0 | haha |
| 00:59.21 | johnx | really? |
| 00:59.21 | b-man16 | XDD |
| 00:59.24 | Mace_N8x0 | oh yeah |
| 00:59.26 | johnx | dies |
| 00:59.35 | b-man16 | hahahahaha |
| 00:59.40 | Mace_N8x0 | like the hackers gibson os |
| 00:59.47 | Mace_N8x0 | :) |
| 00:59.56 | johnx | yup, I figured that was the inspiration |
| 01:00.02 | Mace_N8x0 | hahaha |
| 01:00.11 | Mace_N8x0 | honestly i was just curious |
| 01:00.15 | b-man16 | good luck - how are you doing this? :) |
| 01:00.17 | Mace_N8x0 | if it could be done |
| 01:00.22 | Mace_N8x0 | im not |
| 01:00.35 | Mace_N8x0 | im waiting for johnx to make a new kernel |
| 01:00.38 | johnx | really funny how that seemed like the future, then we moved from white-on-black text to never shutting down our computers inside a couple years |
| 01:00.42 | Mace_N8x0 | using liqbase |
| 01:01.00 | Mace_N8x0 | risc is good? |
| 01:01.03 | Mace_N8x0 | haha |
| 01:01.20 | Mace_N8x0 | 3 times the power of the p5! |
| 01:01.32 | Mace_N8x0 | goes now |
| 01:01.50 | b-man16 | resumes his attempts at writing a webOS application with Eclipse |
| 01:02.07 | Mace_N8x0 | webos |
| 01:02.12 | Mace_N8x0 | what a shitty name |
| 01:02.23 | Mace_N8x0 | i hope palm goes bankrupt |
| 01:02.28 | b-man16 | lol |
| 01:02.33 | Mace_N8x0 | just for being so 90s cliche |
| 01:02.37 | SpeedEvil | http://www2.b3ta.com/notepadinvaders/ |
| 01:02.38 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 01:02.39 | Mace_N8x0 | enron tried that |
| 01:02.43 | Mace_N8x0 | didnt work |
| 01:02.54 | Mace_N8x0 | "web... web web web" |
| 01:03.00 | *** join/#maemo Stskeeps (n=chobits@pc-10-195.skjoldhoej.dk) |
| 01:03.03 | b-man16 | webwebwebwebwebweb |
| 01:04.46 | b-man16 | Mace_N8X0: what name would you have preferred? :) |
| 01:10.20 | lcuk | linux |
| 01:10.26 | lcuk | cos thats its os :) |
| 01:11.11 | lcuk | or should i start talking about liqos for real ;) |
| 01:11.30 | lcuk | Stskeeps, mornin |
| 01:15.44 | SpeedEvil | http://www.i-fukkin.com/ (worksafe) |
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| 02:45.12 | daniel32708 | guys, how can you instal PHP in the n810? I was able to install apache, mysql but i need php in order to run joomla =) thx! |
| 02:47.20 | johnx | daniel32708, do you have the maemo sdk setup? |
| 02:48.08 | johnx | and/or: http://inz.fi/blog/2007/10/16/new-php-package-for-maemo/ |
| 02:49.19 | daniel32708 | i went to that url, downloaded both files, then php5 appears in the "application manager" but when i try to install it it just says it cant |
| 02:49.43 | johnx | what about the answer to my first question? |
| 02:49.56 | daniel32708 | hmm i dont know |
| 02:50.02 | daniel32708 | where do u install that? |
| 02:50.25 | daniel32708 | app manager? |
| 02:50.25 | johnx | do you have a powerful enough desktop to run vmware easily? |
| 02:50.34 | daniel32708 | yep |
| 02:50.37 | johnx | this is for compiling software for the tablet on your desktop |
| 02:50.41 | daniel32708 | i use sun's |
| 02:51.07 | daniel32708 | virtual vox |
| 02:54.13 | daniel32708 | but yes mine is a good desktop |
| 02:55.06 | johnx | yeah, let me find you a link to a maemo sdk vm appliance |
| 02:55.43 | daniel32708 | thx! |
| 02:55.58 | johnx | go here: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php |
| 02:55.59 | johnx | agree |
| 02:56.05 | johnx | grab this: Maemo_Diablo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image.zip |
| 02:56.52 | daniel32708 | url? |
| 02:57.06 | daniel32708 | ok i found it |
| 02:57.13 | johnx | you're comfortable compiling php from source, right? |
| 02:57.46 | daniel32708 | ive never done it before |
| 02:58.03 | johnx | might want to just cancel the download |
| 02:58.09 | daniel32708 | lol |
| 02:58.27 | daniel32708 | i did.. |
| 02:58.53 | daniel32708 | so is there another way? |
| 02:59.31 | johnx | what's your goal? |
| 02:59.41 | johnx | (then I can answer your question :) ) |
| 03:00.03 | daniel32708 | i want to be able to install joomla in the n810, i already have apache and mysql |
| 03:00.09 | daniel32708 | but i need php on it |
| 03:00.15 | daniel32708 | so that joomla can run |
| 03:01.06 | johnx | and you're going to develop for joomla on the tablet? |
| 03:01.41 | daniel32708 | not develop |
| 03:01.45 | daniel32708 | just run a website |
| 03:01.48 | usir | johnx u got the .vmsx for the image? |
| 03:02.01 | daniel32708 | a joomla-based website |
| 03:02.05 | johnx | usir, nope, never used it :) |
| 03:02.07 | daniel32708 | i have done it before on my desktop |
| 03:02.20 | daniel32708 | but wanted to give it a try on the nokia 4 several reasons |
| 03:02.30 | usir | no reason not to |
| 03:03.07 | johnx | well, first I'll tell you that apache+mysql is probably going to slow your tablet down to a crawl when running |
| 03:03.58 | daniel32708 | that sux |
| 03:03.58 | johnx | second, if you really want to get it going the easiest two ways is probably to install "easy debian" or "mer" (depending on whether you want to stick with maemo or not) and install LAMP inside one of theose |
| 03:04.05 | johnx | yeah, 128MB of RAM isn't a lot for two heavy things like apache *and* mysql put together |
| 03:04.12 | johnx | the tablets are already memory starved most of the time |
| 03:04.31 | usir | console mode |
| 03:04.33 | daniel32708 | i see |
| 03:05.33 | johnx | usir, which doesn't really help him if he wants to *see* the website he's running ... |
| 03:05.51 | usir | sheesh |
| 03:05.59 | johnx | just sayin' |
| 03:06.01 | usir | ppl want everything |
| 03:06.13 | daniel32708 | i guess i will just have to stick with apache |
| 03:06.31 | johnx | you could look at easy debian |
| 03:06.47 | daniel32708 | it would have been cool to try joomla on the device, basically to showcase in the upcomming SFD in my country |
| 03:07.01 | usir | nah code your web backend in C and generate on-the fly flash |
| 03:07.15 | daniel32708 | i installed easy deb but it was sooooooooo slow |
| 03:07.17 | usir | screw convention |
| 03:07.27 | *** join/#maemo acydlord (n=acydlord@174-17-71-190.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 03:08.32 | johnx | probably best to just demo it on an external hosting service and connect to it with wifi or tether over bluetooth to your phone |
| 03:08.44 | daniel32708 | yes |
| 03:09.10 | johnx | you could give mer a shot though |
| 03:09.10 | johnx | even if it doesn't work for you it's just an install to the sd card |
| 03:09.58 | daniel32708 | what exactly is mer? |
| 03:10.07 | daniel32708 | another distro? |
| 03:10.41 | johnx | it's a different linux distribution combining ubuntu and maemo |
| 03:10.41 | johnx | the best of each |
| 03:10.50 | daniel32708 | i see |
| 03:10.55 | daniel32708 | is it stable? |
| 03:11.18 | johnx | not quite |
| 03:11.23 | johnx | but you can dual-boot |
| 03:12.34 | daniel32708 | cool |
| 03:12.39 | daniel32708 | i might give it a try |
| 03:12.44 | daniel32708 | thanx 4 ur help man! |
| 03:13.06 | johnx | on that you could just do: apt-get install apache2 php5 mysql-server |
| 03:13.06 | johnx | sure, good luck with your project |
| 03:14.15 | daniel32708 | thx, good nite! |
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| 04:35.50 | Stskeeps | moo |
| 04:37.06 | johnx | m00f |
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| 04:38.25 | Stskeeps | is so looking forward to setting back up his home network in new apartment so he can start coding again |
| 04:39.05 | johnx | has been whacking at bash all day |
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| 04:39.47 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: ping |
| 04:40.03 | johnx | hopefully I'll have something to show for it in a couple hours |
| 04:40.16 | johnx | or I'll just go crazy. either one sounds good |
| 04:40.42 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 04:40.44 | timeless_mbp | kicks something |
| 04:40.59 | Stskeeps | pong |
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| 04:41.32 | Stskeeps | may disappear for shower and breakfast thogh |
| 04:44.08 | timeless_mbp | wanna see new strings? :) |
| 04:45.07 | Stskeeps | mm, gladly, but i would be better capable of it later when i have a working desktop machine |
| 04:45.33 | timeless_mbp | binary format, only suitable for devices ;-) |
| 04:46.21 | timeless_mbp | it isn't my current set |
| 04:46.25 | timeless_mbp | but it's not too out of date |
| 04:46.37 | timeless_mbp | i need to merge in some strings that missed the drop i was using |
| 04:46.54 | timeless_mbp | and i need to pull in the ham categories file (not sure why it didn't come along for the ride) |
| 04:47.04 | timeless_mbp | oh, and i need to drop some packages which really don't belong :) |
| 04:49.18 | johnx | too ... many ... regular expressions ... losing grip ... on sanity ... |
| 04:49.19 | johnx | gets some coffee |
| 04:49.50 | timeless_mbp | johnx: regexp? where? |
| 04:54.14 | *** join/#maemo Sudhir (n=Sudhir@122.172.151.115) |
| 04:55.00 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 04:55.03 | timeless_mbp | kicks someone |
| 04:55.23 | timeless_mbp | what idiot created a picker with text input where the text input doesn't *do* anything |
| 04:55.37 | timeless_mbp | (it isn't a search, and it isn't a way to enter a value, it's just there to look pretty _stupid_) |
| 04:57.03 | Sudhir | I wish to create some drag and drop arrows in my application on n810. could someone help me to find out what apis I should look for? Any sample api will be helpful to me. |
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| 04:59.50 | timeless_mbp | drag and drop arrows? |
| 05:00.58 | timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/find?string=arrow.*png |
| 05:01.01 | timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/sdk-default-icons-2.1/icons/26x26/qgn_indi_arrow_up.png ? |
| 05:01.38 | timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/search?string=qgn_indi_arrow_up |
| 05:01.56 | timeless_mbp | doesn't have any idea what a drag and drop arrow is |
| 05:03.28 | SpeedEvil | Maybe markers like on google maps |
| 05:04.35 | *** join/#maemo carboncopy (n=carbonco@85.0.111.218.kmr02-home.tm.net.my) |
| 05:04.39 | aSIMULAtor | morning |
| 05:04.44 | timeless_mbp | rotfl |
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| 05:06.12 | johnx | mornin' aSIMULAtor |
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| 05:09.54 | konttori | is that canola I see running on the n900: http://www.flickr.com/photos/handful/3881843070/ |
| 05:10.15 | *** join/#maemo oilinki (n=oil@ip-208-109-22-97.ip.secureserver.net) |
| 05:10.22 | johnx | probably. canola runs on a lot of things :> |
| 05:12.40 | RST38h | heya all |
| 05:12.54 | aSIMULAtor | hi |
| 05:13.13 | johnx | mornin' |
| 05:13.27 | RST38h | mournin' indeed |
| 05:13.57 | johnx | holy crap: I think my autobuilder might be working O_o |
| 05:14.19 | aSIMULAtor | nothing like ircing to work on a monday morning |
| 05:14.43 | timeless_mbp | anyone here familiar w/ the Maemo5 layout behaviors? |
| 05:15.05 | johnx | aSIMULAtor, I take it you don't commute by car? :P |
| 05:15.16 | timeless_mbp | specifically, in dialogs, with rows of options, does the widest row's label constrain all row inputs? |
| 05:15.18 | Sudhir | Thanks timeless_mbp. I am creating an application where I take an image and use arrows to point out some important features on that. That why I need to drag and drop some shape (Arrow) on image. |
| 05:15.57 | aSIMULAtor | timeless can u send a screencap |
| 05:16.06 | timeless_mbp | of what? |
| 05:16.24 | johnx | Sudhir, so, similar to those little google maps placemarkers? |
| 05:16.28 | timeless_mbp | Sudhir: well err, you can browse http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/sdk-default-icons-2.1/icons/26x26/ |
| 05:16.30 | timeless_mbp | or similar |
| 05:16.32 | timeless_mbp | but um |
| 05:16.33 | aSIMULAtor | of what youre talking about... |
| 05:16.43 | johnx | timeless_mbp, he's looking for the API to do something like that |
| 05:16.46 | timeless_mbp | i doubt we have something |
| 05:16.51 | Sudhir | johnx : yes, something like marker on maps |
| 05:17.19 | timeless_mbp | the closest we have is cropping in image viewer |
| 05:17.26 | timeless_mbp | which doesn't do what you really want at all |
| 05:17.42 | johnx | hmmm, maybe the source for one of the mapping programs would be of some help |
| 05:18.08 | aSIMULAtor | if theres a label in the row then yes the longest constrains the rest of the text even if the other labels are shorter |
| 05:18.20 | timeless_mbp | aSIMULAtor: thanks |
| 05:19.14 | carboncopy | hi |
| 05:19.28 | aSIMULAtor | and yz i dont commute by car :P im in a tram |
| 05:19.30 | carboncopy | i have forgotten the root password on my tablet |
| 05:19.57 | carboncopy | so i cannot sudo |
| 05:19.57 | carboncopy | is there away for me to reset the root password? |
| 05:19.57 | timeless_mbp | carboncopy: install rootsh? |
| 05:19.58 | carboncopy | :D |
| 05:20.32 | carboncopy | installing rootsh will do the trick? or are you asking whether i have done so? I can't remember what I have done :D |
| 05:20.58 | timeless_mbp | suggesting |
| 05:21.19 | johnx | yes: get rootsh. it will get you to root without a password |
| 05:21.36 | carboncopy | and when am there, I just do passwd ? |
| 05:21.43 | johnx | yup |
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| 05:22.33 | Sudhir | timeless_mbp, johnx : sorry to bug you guys. i am new to gui programming so ignorant. Should I look into gtk api to create drag and drop kinda functionality? |
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| 05:25.18 | johnx | Sudhir, well, I have no experience with GUI programming either, but you might find some example code in the OSM2GO program that could help you |
| 05:25.31 | carboncopy | alright i have installed rootsh and issue the command root |
| 05:25.35 | carboncopy | which spawn a new shell |
| 05:25.38 | carboncopy | and did passwd |
| 05:25.41 | carboncopy | :D |
| 05:25.54 | Sudhir | johnx : thanks. that seem best solution to go ahead. |
| 05:26.23 | carboncopy | sudo from non-root account - i also forgot the password for that account |
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| 05:28.25 | MaceN8x0 | hm |
| 05:28.38 | MaceN8x0 | hello |
| 05:30.25 | carboncopy | hi |
| 05:30.53 | *** join/#maemo konttori___ (n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 05:31.50 | carboncopy | ok I went into rootsh again |
| 05:31.56 | carboncopy | and passwd user |
| 05:32.01 | carboncopy | set the new password |
| 05:32.22 | carboncopy | tried sudo vi test |
| 05:33.09 | carboncopy | key in the password and I get the following Sorry, user user is not allowed to execute '/bin/vi test' as root on Nokia-N810-.... |
| 05:33.51 | johnx | use rootsh instead of sudo |
| 05:34.27 | carboncopy | oh |
| 05:34.57 | carboncopy | so whatever stuff that needs superuser privilege should be done inside rootsh? |
| 05:35.28 | johnx | ok, there's two commands: root and rootsh |
| 05:35.36 | carboncopy | yup |
| 05:35.38 | johnx | root will get you a new shell (like su) |
| 05:35.47 | johnx | rootsh is a direct replacement for sudo |
| 05:36.53 | carboncopy | thanks johnx |
| 05:38.21 | carboncopy | ok moving on to another topic, |
| 05:38.48 | carboncopy | does the browser support socks proxy? |
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| 05:52.09 | timeless_mbp | carboncopy: in theory |
| 05:52.24 | timeless_mbp | in practice, i highly doubt anyone has tested it |
| 05:52.35 | timeless_mbp | the browser is just Mozilla Gecko with a UI |
| 05:53.05 | timeless_mbp | you may have to use about:config to configure your settings |
| 05:54.32 | timeless_mbp | chuckles @ https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19089 |
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| 05:59.50 | timeless_mbp | stops chuckling as a related page hangs camino |
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| 06:00.53 | johnx | timeless, playing javascript russian roulette? |
| 06:01.07 | timeless_mbp | no, pictoral |
| 06:01.57 | timeless_mbp | and it's more like chinese water torture or russian dead weights... dunno |
| 06:02.09 | johnx | that would actually be kind of fun: go back and forth in a web based chat taking turns trying to come up with URLs that crash the other person's browser |
| 06:03.07 | timeless_mbp | oh, i'd win |
| 06:03.17 | timeless_mbp | have you visited stress? |
| 06:03.20 | johnx | yeah, you have that monster page |
| 06:03.27 | johnx | haven't visited in tear lately |
| 06:04.02 | johnx | can I have a link? |
| 06:04.46 | zerojayPC | johnx: Kind of like CoreWars but for browsers, eh? |
| 06:05.32 | timeless_mbp | timeless.justdave.net/stress/stress.html should work |
| 06:05.32 | johnx | or like russian roulette with semi-automatics :) |
| 06:05.52 | timeless_mbp | warning: some bandwidth required :) |
| 06:06.33 | zerojayPC | shit piss |
| 06:06.52 | aSIMULAtor | poo pee? |
| 06:07.30 | *** join/#maemo Firebird (n=Firebird@pool-138-88-89-148.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 06:07.33 | zerojayPC | My version of Firefox seems to have an identity crisis. |
| 06:07.43 | zerojayPC | "Shiretoko" |
| 06:08.18 | johnx | timeless, to its credit, mer can still do kinetic scrolling while that page loads |
| 06:08.23 | timeless_mbp | nods |
| 06:08.27 | *** join/#maemo andrunko (n=andrunko@jalfrezi.collabora.co.uk) |
| 06:08.36 | timeless_mbp | zer0mdq: Shiretoko is the unbranded branch name |
| 06:08.44 | timeless_mbp | err zerojayPC |
| 06:09.03 | *** part/#maemo andrunko (n=andrunko@jalfrezi.collabora.co.uk) |
| 06:09.06 | johnx | ... up to a point |
| 06:09.08 | timeless_mbp | yay, modern browsers seem to do a lot better than historical browsers |
| 06:09.12 | johnx | aaand browser crash :/ |
| 06:09.16 | timeless_mbp | oh, too bah |
| 06:09.21 | timeless_mbp | s/ah/ad/ |
| 06:09.22 | timeless_mbp | wins |
| 06:09.25 | johnx | looked great for a while |
| 06:09.29 | timeless_mbp | microb did a reasonably good job, and didn't crash :) |
| 06:09.34 | timeless_mbp | we tested it a few weeks back |
| 06:09.45 | johnx | new microb or old microb? |
| 06:09.49 | timeless_mbp | new |
| 06:09.57 | timeless_mbp | but from memory old doesn't crash either |
| 06:10.18 | johnx | well, I should hope the new one is better than the old one |
| 06:11.10 | timeless_mbp | what's better than working? :) |
| 06:11.17 | timeless_mbp | but actually |
| 06:11.33 | timeless_mbp | microb for maemo5 has native (disabled) support for portrait mode :) |
| 06:11.34 | johnx | working /quickly/ |
| 06:11.41 | timeless_mbp | on a page that needs ... |
| 06:11.56 | timeless_mbp | 130mb of disk space just for the raw files? |
| 06:12.18 | zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: Don't start saying that. The forums will explode with anger. lol |
| 06:12.33 | timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: all you need to know is a magic keystroke |
| 06:12.58 | timeless_mbp | it isn't active out of the box because too many dialogs suck |
| 06:13.00 | zerojayPC | Something to try to hunt for when I get my N900. |
| 06:13.04 | *** join/#maemo L0cutus (n=kki@host-84-222-88-211.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 06:13.05 | timeless_mbp | yep |
| 06:13.24 | zerojayPC | Even though I really don't give a shit about portrait mode in the slightest. |
| 06:13.39 | johnx | it's rather nice for some things |
| 06:14.00 | johnx | though, IMHO, the biggest win is for one handed typing |
| 06:14.05 | adeus | exactly |
| 06:14.11 | adeus | with one hand a must |
| 06:14.14 | zerojayPC | I've had the Nokia tablets in my hands for like... 3 years now. |
| 06:14.22 | zerojayPC | I've never even once wanted to hold it in one hand. |
| 06:14.34 | johnx | zerojayPC, ever been standing on a train? |
| 06:14.35 | zerojayPC | So... all this bickering over one hand use just confuses me. |
| 06:14.43 | zerojayPC | johnx: Yep.. and on buses. |
| 06:15.01 | johnx | I enjoy not falling over into other people |
| 06:15.09 | zerojayPC | Me too. |
| 06:15.10 | *** join/#maemo Giovani_ (n=Giovani@ip72-220-147-46.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 06:15.14 | zerojayPC | And I don't. |
| 06:15.30 | johnx | anyways, the way I keep from falling on trains/buses is generally by holding onto a hand strap |
| 06:15.34 | zerojayPC | Having a decent sense of balance helps. ;) |
| 06:15.38 | johnx | if you don't need to: more power to you |
| 06:15.48 | Giovani_ | hello hello |
| 06:16.02 | johnx | however, not needing something yourself is different than "not understanding why other people want it" |
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| 06:16.28 | zerojayPC | Even with portrait mode, the screen's too big for you to be able to hit anywhere on the screen anyways, so that's why I find it useless. |
| 06:16.32 | timeless_mbp | we don't have a half screen keyboard for portrait |
| 06:16.40 | *** join/#maemo jgoss (n=josh@unaffiliated/jgoss) |
| 06:16.45 | zerojayPC | Oh, scratch that actually. |
| 06:16.47 | timeless_mbp | so you guys who think one handed will work better in portrait are pipe dreaming |
| 06:17.02 | johnx | timeless_mbp, actually, dreaming about my zaurus 5500 |
| 06:17.13 | zerojayPC | The screen on the N810's small enough to go anywhere with a thumb, pretty much. N900 should be easier. |
| 06:17.37 | *** join/#maemo tobmaster (n=tobmaste@gw.sinnerschrader.de) |
| 06:17.39 | timeless_mbp | it is possible to type w/ just one thumb while walking |
| 06:17.46 | *** join/#maemo jmc93739653 (n=jmc93739@74-33-17-94.dsl1.mond.mn.frontiernet.net) |
| 06:17.51 | timeless_mbp | i'm not sure i'd do it |
| 06:17.52 | Giovani_ | lol@ Maemo 4 will not be available for iPhone xD nice one |
| 06:17.55 | timeless_mbp | we don't have a keychain hook |
| 06:17.58 | Giovani_ | i mean 5 |
| 06:18.19 | zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: Yeah, it's possible to just use your thumb and one hand in landscape. |
| 06:18.42 | johnx | yeah, I've done that before, it's just a pain in lots of circumstances |
| 06:19.09 | Giovani_ | Today I wanted to learn some programming in Python but I just got the idea of how using variables and functions, there's lot's more to it than that huh? -___-' |
| 06:19.35 | zerojayPC | Giovani_: Yeah, but don't give up hope. It takes some time, but you'll learn it as long as you keep trying. |
| 06:19.37 | johnx | Giovani_, well, yeah, but it mostly does boil down to variables and functions |
| 06:20.06 | johnx | ...if you boil it long enough |
| 06:20.10 | zerojayPC | Giovani_: A lot of people that have written programs for Maemo started with Python. |
| 06:20.22 | johnx | and ended with python :) |
| 06:20.28 | zerojayPC | Giovani_: As their first programming attempt. |
| 06:20.30 | *** part/#maemo Giovani_ (n=Giovani@ip72-220-147-46.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 06:20.37 | *** join/#maemo Giovani_ (n=Giovani@ip72-220-147-46.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 06:20.37 | zerojayPC | johnx: Hehe. |
| 06:20.38 | *** part/#maemo Giovani_ (n=Giovani@ip72-220-147-46.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 06:20.44 | timeless_mbp | wow |
| 06:20.51 | zerojayPC | Crisis of faith? |
| 06:20.56 | *** join/#maemo alexga (n=alex@87.223.182.175) |
| 06:21.04 | timeless_mbp | a server i don't use much has 89GB of mail it needs to move |
| 06:21.24 | *** join/#maemo Giovani_ (n=Giovani@ip72-220-147-46.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 06:21.43 | Giovani_ | sorry, I just installed this "thing |
| 06:21.59 | johnx | timeless, time to mail the HD... |
| 06:23.10 | Giovani_ | is there any other way that I can support Maemo? |
| 06:23.31 | zerojayPC | I wouldn't care too much. I'm sure 90% of that 89GB are all Facebook notifications anyways. ;) |
| 06:23.50 | johnx | "support maemo"? you mean write an app in python for maemo? |
| 06:23.57 | zerojayPC | Giovani_: I've got a wonderful little N900 you could buy. ;) |
| 06:24.08 | Giovani_ | apart from that, cause is too complicated for me |
| 06:24.22 | zerojayPC | There are other languages you can try. |
| 06:24.26 | Giovani_ | not buying after some solid reviwes |
| 06:24.28 | mandara | Giovani_, you can write doc's and translate |
| 06:24.42 | zerojayPC | Yeah, that's a good idea. |
| 06:24.43 | Giovani_ | ahhh i know spanish also xD |
| 06:26.48 | Giovani_ | thanks guys. |
| 06:27.07 | Giovani_ | zerojayPC: so why you want to sell N900? |
| 06:27.41 | zerojayPC | Giovani_: I don't. I was just joking since I don't have my hands on the device... yet. |
| 06:28.23 | aSIMULAtor | did u preorder from nokia a device? :) |
| 06:28.32 | Giovani_ | hmmm you are eager to get it huh |
| 06:29.02 | mandara | Giovani_, did you tried programming in C? |
| 06:29.05 | zerojayPC | aSIMULAtor: Nope. I don't have that kind of money, unfortunately. |
| 06:29.10 | zerojayPC | Giovani_: Sure am. |
| 06:29.31 | aSIMULAtor | oh so waiting for the subsidized price via carrier? |
| 06:29.45 | *** join/#maemo benson (n=chatzill@125.34.52.217) |
| 06:29.47 | zerojayPC | aSIMULAtor: Waiting for the developer discount, actually. |
| 06:30.05 | aSIMULAtor | ahh cool |
| 06:30.10 | Giovani_ | mandara:I was reading the introductions about python, and it is the best way for a beginner to programming, it would be easier if I had a book full of test apps that I can try on, but there isn't |
| 06:30.22 | zerojayPC | I just hope this one won't take a full year until the device lands in my hands like it did for the N810 developer discount. |
| 06:30.57 | johnx | Giovani_, try: "python recipes" or "python cookbook" |
| 06:31.03 | mandara | Giovani_, there are a lot of free books for python |
| 06:31.11 | johnx | that's the kind of book/site that's full of example code |
| 06:32.09 | Giovani_ | hmm I'd rather have a printer book, can't really concentrate on digital material, any suggestions? |
| 06:32.10 | *** join/#maemo trickie (n=trickie@94.100.112.225) |
| 06:32.16 | zerojayPC | I sold my N800 the week I found I was accepted for the N810 developer device program... and then the discount code was just eaten by the Nokia Canada site and stopped working. |
| 06:32.25 | zerojayPC | Back and forth, I was given new codes... none worked. |
| 06:33.08 | johnx | Giovani_, go to books.google.com and type "python cookbook" and read some pages |
| 06:33.09 | zerojayPC | I tried to buy back my N800 from my friend, but she gave it to her dad as a gift. A week after she bought it from me, he left it on the roof of his car and drove off without realizing. |
| 06:33.27 | X-Fade | Morning |
| 06:33.28 | Giovani_ | LoL |
| 06:33.39 | johnx | Giovani_, if you like it, buy it |
| 06:33.55 | Giovani_ | johnx: thx bud |
| 06:34.02 | zerojayPC | After a monthly back and forth with Quim... it was about 10 or 11 months, I suddenly just had a free N810 sitting at home... he sent it to me, feeling bad for what happened. |
| 06:34.10 | zerojayPC | And then two weeks after getting it, the battery died. |
| 06:34.50 | johnx | and the moral of the story is: horde your gadgets like there's a silicon shortage :) |
| 06:34.53 | zerojayPC | I didn't have the cash to spend on a new one... so I just let the N810 gather dust on my desk... and suddenly it booted up on its own six months later. |
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| 06:34.55 | *** join/#maemo sphenxes (n=sphenxes@85-127-168-54.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 06:36.17 | aspect | Giovani_: "Dive into python" gets pretty good reviews, and may be available in print form .. if not you can always grab the pdf version and take it to a printer |
| 06:36.33 | mandara | Giovani_, here is one http://www.swaroopch.com/notes/Python |
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| 06:36.37 | Giovani_ | the book assumes that I am familiar programming python, but I'm not -____- |
| 06:36.59 | zerojayPC | Python's a language I don't feel fully comfortable pushing first-time programmers towards. |
| 06:37.12 | zerojayPC | Because of the white space issue alone. |
| 06:37.34 | johnx | zerojayPC, afraid it will teach them how to indent their code? |
| 06:37.37 | aspect | wow, really? |
| 06:37.44 | Giovani_ | mandara:I just read half of that, very informative and got some knowledge |
| 06:38.10 | zerojayPC | johnx: Afraid that they'll give up before ever really trying. |
| 06:38.33 | mandara | Giovani_, just google for more, there are a lot of free books for python |
| 06:38.38 | aspect | I see other problems with the language, but not whitespace -- I've seen too much student code with no indentation at all ... |
| 06:38.47 | adeus | the indent only bothers old perl coders who want to everything on the same line :) |
| 06:38.53 | adeus | do |
| 06:39.11 | luke-jr | :p |
| 06:39.13 | zerojayPC | lol |
| 06:39.22 | johnx | normally, I'd direct first time programmers to scheme, but if they have an itch they want to scratch right away python+pyqt is kind of a killer combo for starting to get things done right away |
| 06:39.24 | luke-jr | I format my code to minimize diff output |
| 06:39.25 | luke-jr | <.< |
| 06:39.34 | Giovani_ | I think the programming language is about practicing, I have worked with HTML, PHP, CSS, most of them I took examples over the web, must be the same with Object Oriented Programming...? |
| 06:39.45 | zerojayPC | I don't like that just adding a space to a line is the difference between something working and something not working at all. |
| 06:39.47 | mandara | zerojayPC, I find white space a feature. |
| 06:40.27 | aspect | Giovani_: I don't know what in particular you're interested in programming, but if graphics & games get you interested there's probably some good material on pygame.org |
| 06:40.31 | *** join/#maemo stemosco (n=stemosco@esprx02x.nokia.com) |
| 06:40.38 | zerojayPC | mandara: Being able to use white space where you want is a feature. One I very much enjoy. |
| 06:40.45 | Giovani_ | programming for the Maemo platform |
| 06:41.00 | luke-jr | Giovani_: no reason to use Python then.. |
| 06:41.08 | Giovani_ | yes there is |
| 06:41.10 | luke-jr | AFAIK Maemo doesn't even include it by default |
| 06:41.27 | Giovani_ | then I am mistaken =( |
| 06:41.33 | Giovani_ | u sure? |
| 06:41.34 | zerojayPC | Sure doesn't. Unless that's changed in Maemo 5? |
| 06:41.37 | luke-jr | not sure, no |
| 06:41.53 | zerojayPC | It's not exactly hard to install though. |
| 06:41.55 | johnx | Giovani_, there's lots of people using python on maemo though |
| 06:41.57 | Giovani_ | I read in the forums about python, PyQT |
| 06:41.59 | aspect | zerojayPC: surely you value consistency, though? |
| 06:42.00 | luke-jr | but in the end, better to write normal portable applications :p |
| 06:42.24 | MaceN8x0 | normal? |
| 06:42.29 | zerojayPC | aspect: Absolutely. I'm a full-time copy editor and enforcer of consistency. :) |
| 06:42.36 | Giovani_ | I guess in the end the user would have to install python to use applications, just like symbian |
| 06:42.40 | luke-jr | MaceN8x0: yeah, a properly written Qt app will run on any OS |
| 06:42.45 | johnx | Giovani_, the most popular choices for programming on maemo seem to be: C and python and to a much lesser extent: Vala |
| 06:43.08 | luke-jr | johnx: pfft, that's so Maemo 4 |
| 06:43.09 | zerojayPC | aspect: But there's a difference between consistency for a reason and just plain being picky to be a pain in the ass and I feel that Python crosses that line. |
| 06:43.28 | Giovani_ | yeah. I was looking between C and Py but was directed to Py after reading some introductions to the books |
| 06:43.54 | johnx | Giovani_, if you're already very comfortable with PHP, you might just want to jump into C |
| 06:44.09 | Giovani_ | easy to go also since I just played with Terminal for the first time on my Mac, no py installation yay! |
| 06:44.10 | luke-jr | johnx: err, PHP isn't *that* much like C |
| 06:44.23 | mandara | zerojayPC, that's you opinion. |
| 06:44.28 | zerojayPC | PHP to C... that's.. quite a leap. |
| 06:44.37 | zerojayPC | mandara: That's right. What's your point? :) |
| 06:44.41 | Giovani_ | no, not comfortable with PHP, just took samples from other websites, never coded not even a hello world that i remember how to dp |
| 06:44.50 | johnx | they both don't care about white space and have {s all over the place :) |
| 06:45.07 | luke-jr | personally, writing Python annoys me |
| 06:45.10 | Giovani_ | he's making a point, they use variables and functions! OOP |
| 06:45.11 | zerojayPC | mandara: That's why I said "I feel that"... it's my opinion. |
| 06:45.12 | luke-jr | I can't pinpoint the precise reason why |
| 06:45.16 | luke-jr | it MIGHT be the whitespace issue |
| 06:45.37 | luke-jr | Giovani_: C isn't OO |
| 06:45.50 | luke-jr | neither are "variables and functions" OOP |
| 06:45.58 | luke-jr | OOP is objects :p |
| 06:46.08 | zerojayPC | I just think that the whitespace issue is what causes a lot of first-time programmers to give up on programming completely because they get so frustrated by that single issue alone. |
| 06:46.19 | luke-jr | mere variables and functions are *procedural* programming |
| 06:46.23 | luke-jr | PP |
| 06:46.42 | zerojayPC | Which is really too bad because everything else about it works well enough for a first-timer. |
| 06:46.46 | johnx | zerojayPC, I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm honestly curious: Have you seen many examples of that? |
| 06:46.49 | luke-jr | zerojayPC: the MOO language uses a somewhat different approach that appears to be more effective |
| 06:47.03 | Giovani_ | zerojayPC but that can be taken care of easily with a good text editor? |
| 06:47.05 | zerojayPC | johnx: Yes. All the time. Both here and in the real world. |
| 06:47.24 | luke-jr | zerojayPC: generally all implementations of MOO compile the source to bytecode, delete the source, then when you want to edit it, decompile it back to code |
| 06:47.35 | luke-jr | thus, indenting is done by your decompiler |
| 06:48.15 | johnx | zerojayPC, that's kind of surprising to hear. Mostly I only hear about hardened programmers complaining about the white space thing |
| 06:48.28 | aspect | zerojayPC: do you really think that's more of an issue than other punctuation-based syntax? ;,[]() etc have confused learners often enough in my experience |
| 06:48.30 | luke-jr | johnx: I have had that same experience |
| 06:48.51 | johnx | luke-jr, you got turned off programing because of python? |
| 06:48.52 | zerojayPC | johnx: Yeah, seen a lot of complaining about it professionally too. Dropped python for Lua on a few projects for that reason. |
| 06:48.55 | luke-jr | johnx: no |
| 06:49.01 | zerojayPC | luke-jr: Hmm. interesting. |
| 06:49.01 | luke-jr | admittedly my "student" wasn't a complete beginner |
| 06:49.13 | luke-jr | but his history in programming was basically Z80 assembly and Visual Basic |
| 06:49.21 | zerojayPC | aspect: Yes, I defintely do think it's more of an issue. |
| 06:49.31 | johnx | Giovani_, anyways, my personal recommendation is Scheme. |
| 06:49.39 | luke-jr | Perl ftw |
| 06:49.41 | Giovani_ | what is that |
| 06:49.57 | luke-jr | Perl is the ultimate in programming languages |
| 06:50.02 | zerojayPC | Anyone ever try to copy a python script from a web forum knows the pain of the white space. ;) |
| 06:50.06 | johnx | Scheme is a really nice purely functional language |
| 06:50.09 | aspect | johnx: good suggestion. Scheme is lovely -- a lot to learn from it too |
| 06:50.15 | zerojayPC | Anyone that's ever tried, that is. |
| 06:50.19 | aspect | except it's not pure functional |
| 06:50.26 | johnx | well, not pure |
| 06:50.38 | johnx | but very functionally oriented |
| 06:50.45 | Giovani_ | well python seems to integrate with C |
| 06:50.48 | luke-jr | ... |
| 06:50.49 | aspect | much of it encourages the style, but you can cross the line whenever it's convenient :) |
| 06:50.58 | luke-jr | Giovani_: Perl integrates with everything |
| 06:51.05 | Giovani_ | i see |
| 06:51.22 | aspect | zerojayPC: I've had more trouble copying SQL from web forums that forget to put whitespace between </span><span> |
| 06:51.27 | Giovani_ | but more lines of code, isn't it? |
| 06:51.34 | aspect | if you want easy integration with C, try Tcl :) |
| 06:51.39 | luke-jr | Giovani_: Perl is all about less lines of code |
| 06:51.56 | Giovani_ | I was reading otherwise |
| 06:52.17 | Giovani_ | must be Python purists |
| 06:52.31 | luke-jr | Giovani_: Perl even supports coding in Latin |
| 06:52.46 | zerojayPC | Perl is about making lovely animals with your code. ;) |
| 06:52.53 | luke-jr | lol |
| 06:52.56 | Giovani_ | exciting! |
| 06:53.14 | johnx | Perl is about making sure that no one else can understand what the *&$% you were trying to do or why it works |
| 06:53.19 | aspect | Giovani_: if you're interested in johnx's suggestion, have a look at http://www.plt-scheme.org/ -- there are excellect books available too, htdp, sicp and the fixnum book probably being the most relevant |
| 06:53.22 | luke-jr | johnx: that's an invalid regex! |
| 06:53.39 | zerojayPC | A programmer at work wrote up a .pl file and arranged the code to be in the shape of a penis. |
| 06:53.45 | luke-jr | ... |
| 06:53.56 | zerojayPC | And then went on long tirades against other programmers he felt superior to in SVN commit logs. |
| 06:54.12 | Giovani_ | thas annoying |
| 06:54.17 | aspect | Giovani_: from an experienced programmer who learned scheme just a few years ago, I can tell you the experience taught me more about programming than years of c+perl+python+php+... |
| 06:54.27 | johnx | Giovani_, what aspect said. :) I'm pretty sure I learned on a curriculum similar to or based on the htdp book |
| 06:54.27 | luke-jr | Perl is all about being annoying....... oh wait |
| 06:54.31 | zerojayPC | Commit difference: 3 characters. Commit log: 5600 characters. lol |
| 06:54.48 | mandara | zerojayPC, I first learned C, and I love it very much. Then I heard about Python and how easy it is. Now it's my favourite language. Although white space is controversial. Ether you like it, or hate it. |
| 06:55.09 | luke-jr | I like C and Perl most I think |
| 06:55.26 | luke-jr | SQL is just insane |
| 06:55.34 | luke-jr | deviating from the norm for simple operators |
| 06:55.36 | zerojayPC | mandara: I started with C too about 15 years ago. I haven't really done much programming in a long time now though. |
| 06:56.03 | mandara | zerojayPC, me neither :( |
| 06:56.07 | timeless_mbp | johnx: hey, did you get a core? you should really file a bug against your browser vendor |
| 06:56.10 | timeless_mbp | crashing isn't ok :) |
| 06:56.26 | Giovani_ | and did you guys learn by yourselves? or some courses? |
| 06:56.39 | luke-jr | it's all about pizza |
| 06:56.39 | zerojayPC | I used to program for days at a time when I was a teenager, and I just kind of lost my patience for doing it after I graduated from high school. |
| 06:56.41 | johnx | timeless_mbp, ah, thanks for reminding me: I ran it from the console and visited the page again, then left it to sit :) |
| 06:56.50 | luke-jr | good night |
| 06:56.52 | aspect | Javascript's another language I'd recommend to beginners |
| 06:56.57 | Giovani_ | Dungeon Geeks xD |
| 06:57.06 | Giovani_ | nite |
| 06:57.34 | Giovani_ | omg java looks soooo complicated O.O |
| 06:57.46 | zerojayPC | Java's pretty close to C++. |
| 06:58.03 | zerojayPC | Just don't do mobile Java. Save yourself the hell. lol |
| 06:58.09 | johnx | at my university they started us on scheme and the next semester was java |
| 06:58.15 | johnx | felt like being thrown to the wolves |
| 06:59.01 | zerojayPC | I didn't enjoy some phones accidentally garbage collecting variables I had just created. |
| 06:59.04 | timeless_mbp | if you're going to do mobile java, you might as well do android |
| 06:59.07 | inz | Hmm, at the Uni I've coded in C++, Java (SE, ME and EE), Modula3, Prolog, Fortran, Python |
| 06:59.15 | zerojayPC | Or some other phones just NEVER garbage collecting. |
| 06:59.16 | inz | that I can remember |
| 06:59.23 | zerojayPC | eyes Nokia 3650/7650. |
| 06:59.29 | timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: now there's a great optimization :) |
| 06:59.33 | zerojayPC | lol |
| 06:59.34 | *** join/#maemo L0cMini9 (n=kki@host-84-223-126-30.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 06:59.44 | timeless_mbp | gc is optional, right? :) |
| 06:59.45 | zerojayPC | I was testing a game on the 3650 for two months. |
| 06:59.51 | zerojayPC | It crashed every ten minutes. |
| 07:00.09 | zerojayPC | It was just hell. |
| 07:00.21 | timeless_mbp | inz: hey, are you doing work for the n900? |
| 07:00.28 | Giovani_ | you lost your hair? |
| 07:00.54 | inz | timeless, nope; I've only played with one for ~5 min or so, and that was a somewhat broken proto :( |
| 07:01.03 | zerojayPC | When my company decided to stop mobile development, I begged my boss to let me have the 3650. |
| 07:01.04 | timeless_mbp | :( |
| 07:01.09 | timeless_mbp | inz: visit nokia store? :) |
| 07:01.16 | zerojayPC | and I proceeded to do a 350 pound dance on that bitch. |
| 07:01.24 | Giovani_ | HAHAAHA |
| 07:01.26 | timeless_mbp | heh |
| 07:01.29 | inz | timeless, wrong city... |
| 07:01.40 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@212.183.134.130) |
| 07:01.46 | *** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@nemein.suvilahti.nemein.net) |
| 07:02.07 | Giovani_ | I know by heart how to start a html website and end tags LOL |
| 07:02.19 | zerojayPC | Java... the promise of being able to run the same executable everywhere. |
| 07:02.23 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (n=andre@g1.blanicka25.net) |
| 07:02.34 | johnx | used to be a Nokia kiosk at the local mall, but they took it down just before the N800 I think |
| 07:02.40 | zerojayPC | Except phone A's color #2 is always 50% transparent. |
| 07:02.50 | zerojayPC | And phone B's color 0 is always hot pink. |
| 07:02.52 | Giovani_ | there was one in san diego also, went down. |
| 07:03.10 | zerojayPC | and phone C... well... phone C doesn't like drawing single pixel lines, so it just doesn't fucking do it. |
| 07:03.59 | *** join/#maemo stemosco (n=stemosco@esprx02x.nokia.com) |
| 07:04.07 | zerojayPC | And phone D... it leaks memory each and every time you GetResourceAsStream. |
| 07:05.35 | sp3000 | well a leak is a kind of stream right |
| 07:05.53 | zerojayPC | Phone E needs to be unlocked each and every time it turns on. |
| 07:06.00 | zerojayPC | Phone F was a Pantech. Enough said. |
| 07:06.06 | Giovani_ | xD |
| 07:06.41 | Giovani_ | ok so in case I learn python how the hell am i going to program the UI o.O |
| 07:06.58 | zerojayPC | Welcome to porting videogames to different cell platforms 101. ;) |
| 07:07.12 | johnx | Giovani_, glade or do it by hand in pygtk |
| 07:07.14 | johnx | or pyqt |
| 07:07.21 | johnx | do we have pyqt yet? |
| 07:07.28 | Giovani_ | i think so |
| 07:07.43 | johnx | do that |
| 07:07.48 | Giovani_ | ok so what is QT? xD |
| 07:07.58 | johnx | a graphical toolkit |
| 07:08.11 | johnx | it's the thingie that draws the buttons when/where you tell it to |
| 07:08.14 | zerojayPC | It'll be the main toolkit (instead of GTK) in the Harmattan release. |
| 07:08.24 | inz | Qt is quite more than a GUI toolkit |
| 07:08.47 | Giovani_ | awesome so now I know what toolkit, modules mean |
| 07:09.03 | zerojayPC | Yeah... it's even got Webkit built-in now. |
| 07:09.18 | Giovani_ | what is webkit, ahm so annoyinh |
| 07:09.40 | johnx | html rendering engine...so yeah, just do your app in html :) |
| 07:09.42 | zerojayPC | Webkit is Apple's fork of the KHTML rendering engine. |
| 07:10.07 | Giovani_ | IC |
| 07:12.01 | zerojayPC | Quim just posted this to his Twitter account: http://research.nokia.com/research/mobile3D |
| 07:12.44 | Giovani_ | 3D? that's so yesterday |
| 07:13.38 | zerojayPC | It's not 3d like game consoles where polygons are drawn to the screen. |
| 07:13.40 | johnx | there was a demo of an N810 with some type of 3D-ified screen on engadget the other day |
| 07:13.44 | zerojayPC | Yeah. |
| 07:13.52 | zerojayPC | I think it was at Nokia World. |
| 07:14.21 | zerojayPC | PS3's getting 3D output added to its firmware next year, apparently. |
| 07:14.31 | Giovani_ | ugh Engadget are pissed @ Nokia for not inviting them, no.. for being Apple trolls |
| 07:14.56 | crashanddie_ | zerojayPC, the PS3 can't do 3D? Wow, they fooled me |
| 07:15.18 | Captain_Picard | lol you need special display to use 3d |
| 07:15.26 | Captain_Picard | over 100hz |
| 07:15.32 | zerojayPC | crashanddie_: <zerojayPC> It's not 3d like game consoles where polygons are drawn to the screen. |
| 07:15.38 | johnx | Captain_Picard, not necessarily |
| 07:15.40 | zerojayPC | 200hz. |
| 07:15.45 | Captain_Picard | with an integrated auto-stereoscopic display. |
| 07:15.46 | zerojayPC | 100hz per eye. |
| 07:15.49 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (n=murrayc@85.183.48.167) |
| 07:15.58 | johnx | center of the eye only sees like 28fps IIRC |
| 07:16.07 | *** join/#maemo eocanha (n=eocanha@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 07:16.15 | Captain_Picard | thats bullshit and you know it |
| 07:16.27 | crashanddie_ | johnx, thought it was 24 fps? |
| 07:16.38 | Captain_Picard | thats a lame study. |
| 07:16.46 | crashanddie_ | no, you idiots are lame |
| 07:17.04 | crashanddie_ | this channel doesn't give a dayum about what kind of display there is coming out in half a billion years |
| 07:17.23 | crashanddie_ | I couldn't care less about the fact 3D isn't actually what we see on our screens |
| 07:17.41 | zerojayPC | So... what's your point then? |
| 07:17.41 | crashanddie_ | if you need to update the terminology, do so, but don't confuse people in the meantime |
| 07:17.59 | crashanddie_ | zerojayPC, Captain_Picard: take it to #off-topic |
| 07:18.08 | Captain_Picard | lol crashanddie_ ??? |
| 07:18.10 | zerojayPC | It's kind of on-topic, actually. |
| 07:18.16 | Captain_Picard | yeh it is. |
| 07:18.47 | zerojayPC | and this is IRC. There's no such thing as off-topic anyways. If you don't like it, you've got an ignore command. |
| 07:18.59 | crashanddie_ | and the only two who advocate it that argument, are the ones who are asked to stop it, how quaint |
| 07:19.04 | Captain_Picard | yeh, no one is forcing you to read our discussion |
| 07:19.26 | zerojayPC | crashanddie_: The only two? New to IRC, I suppose? lol |
| 07:19.36 | Captain_Picard | i think he is. |
| 07:19.37 | johnx | crashanddie_, I could see asking them to quiet it down if there was some on-topic discussion actually happening, but it's pretty quiet here right now |
| 07:19.48 | crashanddie_ | johnx, fair point |
| 07:20.11 | zerojayPC | And it's on-topic anyways. |
| 07:20.11 | crashanddie_ | regardless, johnx are you coming to maemo summit? |
| 07:20.15 | johnx | working on it |
| 07:20.17 | crashanddie_ | johnx, haven't seen you in here for quite a while |
| 07:20.31 | johnx | will submit my request for sponsorship shortly |
| 07:20.45 | zerojayPC | Only got two more days. |
| 07:20.47 | crashanddie_ | still in that small strip of an island? |
| 07:20.54 | johnx | yup yup. only need two more days :) |
| 07:20.58 | crashanddie_ | or back to the US? |
| 07:21.04 | johnx | crashanddie_, nope. check out my host mask :) |
| 07:21.15 | crashanddie_ | ouch |
| 07:21.16 | crashanddie_ | comcast |
| 07:21.20 | johnx | yeah |
| 07:21.27 | zerojayPC | I got approved for sponsorship, just not sure If I'll be able to make it though. |
| 07:21.28 | crashanddie_ | that's gotta hurt after all the Japan goodness |
| 07:21.29 | johnx | works well enough several hours a day |
| 07:21.46 | johnx | heh, I was on shared DSL in Japan |
| 07:21.47 | crashanddie_ | johnx, anyway, would be good to have you over |
| 07:22.01 | johnx | didn't have enough money for insane internet over there |
| 07:22.05 | crashanddie_ | hmm |
| 07:22.07 | crashanddie_ | that expensive? |
| 07:22.12 | johnx | that poor :) |
| 07:22.24 | X-Fade | Any mediawiki gurus awake? |
| 07:22.25 | johnx | an English teacher's salary doesn't go that far |
| 07:22.50 | zerojayPC | Yeah, that's what I've heard. |
| 07:22.55 | Captain_Picard | but you can afford a n900? |
| 07:23.03 | zerojayPC | I know a few friends that went over there to teach as well. |
| 07:23.06 | crashanddie_ | johnx, ouch, again |
| 07:23.13 | RST38h | johnx: You ain't an English teacher any more though? =) |
| 07:23.18 | johnx | Captain_Picard, nope, but I'm working IT now |
| 07:23.32 | johnx | should be able to save enough by the end of the year or so |
| 07:23.42 | crashanddie_ | which doesn't pay that much more though... |
| 07:23.49 | Captain_Picard | working like a slave for a nokia device |
| 07:24.06 | johnx | I like IT though, and it's full time |
| 07:24.09 | crashanddie_ | actually, I don't know, how much does an IT guy make? How much does a teacher make? |
| 07:24.20 | RST38h | Depends |
| 07:24.21 | Captain_Picard | depends on country i would say |
| 07:24.35 | johnx | crashanddie_, depends on the job of course, but it also depends on the country and then cost of living |
| 07:24.39 | zerojayPC | Sadly, I'd say the IT guy wins out after a few years. |
| 07:24.43 | RST38h | IT guys in US makes from $55k all the way to $90k or so |
| 07:24.51 | crashanddie_ | hmm |
| 07:25.01 | zerojayPC | RST38h: From way less than that. |
| 07:25.04 | RST38h | Teachers I am not sure about, varies by state |
| 07:25.06 | johnx | RST38h, you missed a recession :) |
| 07:25.11 | crashanddie_ | lol |
| 07:25.11 | Captain_Picard | here it dont matter if you make alot of a little, taxes take away the rest |
| 07:25.13 | RST38h | johnx: So, what is it now? |
| 07:25.15 | *** join/#maemo lbt (n=david@78.32.229.233) |
| 07:25.19 | Captain_Picard | or* |
| 07:25.25 | crashanddie_ | RST38h, I'd say you start out at 40k |
| 07:25.28 | johnx | RST38h, minimum wage on up |
| 07:25.31 | crashanddie_ | tops |
| 07:25.35 | zerojayPC | RST38h: Lucky to break $30k in a lot of areas. |
| 07:25.41 | crashanddie_ | ouch |
| 07:25.42 | RST38h | johnx: I doubt IT guys make minimal wage :) |
| 07:25.55 | crashanddie_ | do they need much more than that? |
| 07:26.02 | RST38h | who, teachers? |
| 07:26.08 | crashanddie_ | How many bad coffees and donuts can you buy with minimum wage? |
| 07:26.09 | RST38h | depends on the type of drugs they are on |
| 07:26.11 | zerojayPC | MSCE guys are a dime a dozen. You can get them for minimum wage. |
| 07:26.13 | crashanddie_ | 1 an hour? |
| 07:26.16 | Captain_Picard | teachers have long vacataion :d |
| 07:26.20 | Captain_Picard | vacation* |
| 07:26.26 | crashanddie_ | too long it would seem |
| 07:26.49 | crashanddie_ | anyway, gotta go to work |
| 07:27.02 | crashanddie_ | take care all |
| 07:27.08 | zerojayPC | It's Unix and Linux IT stuff... that's where you can make money right now. |
| 07:27.18 | crashanddie_ | zerojayPC, security |
| 07:27.22 | crashanddie_ | shitloads of money to make |
| 07:27.22 | zerojayPC | That too. |
| 07:27.32 | crashanddie_ | I'm a security expert for banks and governments |
| 07:27.36 | crashanddie_ | and trust me, recession or not |
| 07:27.57 | zerojayPC | Anything MS... forget it... guy at the video store's making more than you. lol |
| 07:28.09 | johnx | 'later crashanddie_ |
| 07:30.11 | zerojayPC | Someone posted his app/feature wishlist for Maemo 5 on TMO. |
| 07:30.18 | zerojayPC | His last wish: "Password support for Alphanumeric passwords" |
| 07:30.22 | zerojayPC | Whhhaaa? |
| 07:30.33 | lbt | lock code? |
| 07:30.43 | Stskeeps | better than AM reciever |
| 07:31.05 | zerojayPC | lbt: He doesn't say. |
| 07:31.51 | lbt | just a guess |
| 07:32.12 | lbt | which turns him from a donut to a fairly reasonable chap ;) |
| 07:32.44 | zerojayPC | If you wanna be that optimistic. ;) |
| 07:33.07 | johnx | misses Japanese donut shops |
| 07:33.34 | zerojayPC | Ugh... almost 4am.. should probably try to sleep. |
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| 07:57.27 | johnx | *($&%. dpkg dependency patterns are hard to match |
| 07:57.44 | RST38h | Try sendmail.cf! |
| 07:57.46 | RST38h | hides |
| 07:58.23 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 07:58.31 | johnx | morning Jaffa |
| 07:58.52 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (n=magao@157.88.94.233) |
| 07:59.05 | Captain_Picard | Jaffa Kree |
| 07:59.55 | *** join/#maemo sergio (n=sergio@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 08:00.06 | Jaffa | Captain_Picard: Indeed. |
| 08:00.25 | *** join/#maemo florian_kc (n=fuchs@port-217-146-132-69.static.qsc.de) |
| 08:00.39 | Captain_Picard | Jaffa: is your nickname really from the tv-series? |
| 08:00.55 | Jaffa | Captain_Picard: No, it predates it by about 4 years. |
| 08:01.02 | Captain_Picard | ok ;) |
| 08:01.32 | *** join/#maemo gunni__ (n=quassel@xdsl-213-196-228-144.netcologne.de) |
| 08:01.32 | Captain_Picard | http://www.atv-marketing.fi/k-kiertue/img/jaffa_pullo.jpg |
| 08:01.42 | Captain_Picard | i used to drink that back in the 90's |
| 08:02.22 | Stskeeps | jaffa cake? |
| 08:02.30 | Jaffa | Stskeeps: Closer :) |
| 08:03.29 | Stskeeps | well, there is the drink as Captain_Picard pointed out |
| 08:04.18 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (n=magao@157.88.94.233) |
| 08:04.58 | RST38h | Deep Ones detected: http://www.awakentothetruth.com/IMAGES/a15fishhead3.jpg |
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| 08:07.03 | florian | re |
| 08:08.06 | *** join/#maemo pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0C0BA.access.telenet.be) |
| 08:08.51 | gomiam | RST38h: LOL |
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| 08:11.11 | Captain_Picard | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxN6m_22zMQ seriously? |
| 08:12.03 | aSIMULAtor | ahh the on going conspiracy theories of chem trails |
| 08:14.38 | *** join/#maemo femorandeira (n=Felipe@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 08:14.59 | Captain_Picard | who belives this stuff? |
| 08:15.10 | RST38h | People who shoot these videos? |
| 08:15.19 | Captain_Picard | i doubt even they belive |
| 08:15.34 | RST38h | People believe weirder things than that |
| 08:17.08 | aSIMULAtor | surprisingly a lot of people believe in chem trails... but then again there are a lot of stupid people in this world :D |
| 08:17.27 | RST38h | People believe in mind control over GSM. |
| 08:17.50 | RST38h | Other people believe in UN conspiring to create a world government. |
| 08:18.12 | RST38h | Hell, people believe in Santa! |
| 08:18.21 | aSIMULAtor | the enw world order woowoo |
| 08:18.48 | Captain_Picard | some even belive we will get n900 out in october! |
| 08:18.50 | Captain_Picard | what a joke! |
| 08:18.52 | MuJ | puts on his tinfoil hat |
| 08:19.47 | Captain_Picard | MuJ: what brand are you using for your tinfoil? |
| 08:20.20 | MuJ | Captain_Picard: Daily |
| 08:20.24 | Corsac | Captain_Picard: maybe on the 365th of october |
| 08:20.42 | Captain_Picard | MuJ: thats a bad brand, it amplifies the mind control |
| 08:21.04 | aSIMULAtor | reynolds |
| 08:21.24 | MuJ | Captain_Picard: I knew you'd say that :) |
| 08:21.36 | Captain_Picard | hitler channel is very good at trolling people |
| 08:22.21 | aSIMULAtor | december 21 2012 we're all going to DIEEEE |
| 08:22.33 | aSIMULAtor | runs around screaming |
| 08:23.11 | *** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@mar44-1-87-90-32-28.dsl.club-internet.fr) |
| 08:23.46 | guardian | hi |
| 08:23.51 | guardian | long time i didn't code for maemo, will my N800 be enough to develop for maemo 5? |
| 08:23.55 | MaceN8x0 | hitler channel? |
| 08:23.56 | MaceN8x0 | haha |
| 08:24.10 | MaceN8x0 | guardian, mer |
| 08:24.24 | MaceN8x0 | maemo5 wont run on n8x0 |
| 08:24.24 | *** join/#maemo eggonlea_ (n=wing@58.247.79.106) |
| 08:24.32 | guardian | ok |
| 08:24.34 | MaceN8x0 | at least not from nokia |
| 08:25.02 | MaceN8x0 | mer uses the fremantle src combined with ubuntu armel pkgs |
| 08:25.14 | guardian | ok |
| 08:25.35 | Corsac | but no shiny UI, n8x0 don't have the hw for that |
| 08:25.41 | *** join/#maemo dneary (n=dneary@ALyon-152-1-132-182.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:25.48 | MaceN8x0 | no :( |
| 08:25.56 | *** join/#maemo jeremiah_ (n=jeremiah@c83-248-143-10.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 08:26.01 | MaceN8x0 | maybe if there were powervr drivers? |
| 08:26.03 | MaceN8x0 | :) |
| 08:26.13 | Corsac | well, no fremantle shiny UI, but the mer UI shines anyway |
| 08:26.22 | MaceN8x0 | lol |
| 08:26.29 | MaceN8x0 | mmmmkay |
| 08:26.40 | MaceN8x0 | if you say so |
| 08:26.55 | *** join/#maemo gomiam1 (n=magao@157.88.94.233) |
| 08:27.11 | Captain_Picard | show me pictures of mer |
| 08:27.50 | MaceN8x0 | i hope lcuk makes an awesome liq ui for mer |
| 08:28.01 | MaceN8x0 | the one it has now is rather.... |
| 08:28.16 | MaceN8x0 | maemo4 ftw :) |
| 08:28.28 | Captain_Picard | whaT?? |
| 08:28.38 | Captain_Picard | whats wrong with maemo 5? |
| 08:29.44 | MaceN8x0 | nothing on an n900 |
| 08:29.44 | MaceN8x0 | heh |
| 08:30.47 | *** join/#maemo paperclip1 (n=Stanley@246.120.0-93.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 08:30.49 | gomiam | MaceN8x0: isn't Mer an attempt to get Fremantle (i.e. Maemo 5) running on N8xx devices? |
| 08:30.56 | *** join/#maemo jeremiah_ (n=jeremiah@c83-248-143-10.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 08:31.13 | gomiam | (not so much running Fremantle but getting a "compatible" version, if you wish) |
| 08:31.43 | MaceN8x0 | yes, as far as i can tell |
| 08:31.57 | MaceN8x0 | plus push maemo onto other platforms |
| 08:32.10 | gomiam | MaceN8x0: then... why "Maemo4 ftw"? |
| 08:32.28 | MaceN8x0 | because mer needs work |
| 08:32.35 | gomiam | oh |
| 08:32.44 | MaceN8x0 | other than not having print support |
| 08:32.52 | gomiam | :) |
| 08:32.56 | MaceN8x0 | maemo4 is great |
| 08:33.02 | gomiam | not so. No PAP |
| 08:33.09 | gomiam | (among other little things) |
| 08:33.17 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (n=JRocha@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 08:33.39 | gomiam | (and yes, I know PAP can get made to work, but it would have been much better not sleeping on it until it got dropped) |
| 08:33.41 | MaceN8x0 | pap? |
| 08:34.30 | gomiam | MaceN8x0: pet peeve about PAP not being supported through the connection manager. It can be made available through tinkering with wpa_supplicant and something else, but it's quite a hassle AFAIK |
| 08:34.35 | *** join/#maemo fab (n=bellet@monkey.creatis.insa-lyon.fr) |
| 08:35.14 | gomiam | MaceN8x0: it would be irrelevant if eduroam used some other authentication protocol |
| 08:35.16 | MaceN8x0 | i didnt use pap |
| 08:35.28 | gomiam | MaceN8x0: lucky you :) |
| 08:35.35 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@nat/ibm/x-onflfyjfvyalpwoi) |
| 08:35.44 | MaceN8x0 | haha |
| 08:36.33 | gomiam | anyway, since TKIP seems to be starting to fail, maybe the next version of Eduroam will allow other authentication protocols. |
| 08:37.03 | johnx | yeah, didn't TKIP get cracked recently? |
| 08:37.08 | gomiam | johnx: not really |
| 08:37.18 | gomiam | just brute-forced some very short packages |
| 08:37.26 | johnx | ah |
| 08:37.36 | johnx | guess I should RTFA on /. more often |
| 08:37.38 | gomiam | s/packages/frames/ |
| 08:38.26 | gomiam | johnx: yeah, I did RTFA just in case. But the article at Slashdot was quite descriptive IIRC: the new "attack" was just a speed-up of the already known attack on ARP packets. |
| 08:39.06 | johnx | s/RTFA/RTFS (summary)/ |
| 08:39.14 | johnx | :) |
| 08:39.21 | gomiam | XD |
| 08:39.21 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello213047161105.15.14.vie.surfer.at) |
| 08:40.07 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=slonopot@83.149.10.201) |
| 08:40.08 | *** join/#maemo svillar (n=sergio@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 08:40.21 | *** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@85.183.48.167) |
| 08:42.33 | *** join/#maemo brut- (n=brut-@h66-173-4-254.mntimn.dedicated.static.tds.net) |
| 08:43.20 | tigert | blogs about gpodder ui ideas |
| 08:43.46 | gomiam | tigert: implement DWIM instruction :) |
| 08:44.02 | tigert | twim? |
| 08:44.03 | *** join/#maemo svillar (n=sergio@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 08:44.06 | tigert | dwim even |
| 08:44.10 | *** join/#maemo beavis (n=mk@p4FC33639.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:44.18 | X-Fade | tigert: thp is here too. |
| 08:44.27 | gomiam | google dwim |
| 08:44.31 | gomiam | oops |
| 08:44.35 | tigert | X-Fade: sweet |
| 08:44.35 | gomiam | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DWIM |
| 08:44.53 | tigert | will post in a sec, just need to upload another N900 wallpaper set for your fun |
| 08:45.09 | X-Fade | tigert: But it will be interesting for others anyway. |
| 08:46.20 | X-Fade | Now using the podcasting app on my S60 phone, looking forward to using gpodder on a N900.. |
| 08:46.28 | tigert | X-Fade: yeah, plus I dont want to paste all that ascii art here :) |
| 08:46.42 | X-Fade | tigert: Damn, we always love that here. |
| 08:48.01 | *** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@217.174.199.201) |
| 08:48.19 | timeless_mbp | X-Fade: do you have hardware? |
| 08:49.12 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=valerio@bl5-192-212.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 08:49.24 | RST38h | heya vdvsx |
| 08:49.47 | wjt | tigert: ooi where are you uploading them? |
| 08:49.50 | VDVsx | morning RST38h |
| 08:50.47 | tigert | wjt: flickr |
| 08:50.49 | tigert | hold a sec |
| 08:50.50 | *** join/#maemo Sudhir (n=Sudhir@122.172.151.115) |
| 08:52.26 | wjt | â¦and looking at your twitter page answered my question :D |
| 08:52.36 | tigert | twitter? |
| 08:52.48 | wjt | twitter? flickr. Imagine it's not Monday :) |
| 08:54.13 | MaceN8x0 | hahahaha |
| 08:54.27 | MaceN8x0 | Professor Jack Zipes, a retired professor of German at the University of Minnesota who is an expert on fairy tales and their origins, described the work as exciting. |
| 08:54.27 | tigert | twitter, flickr, whats the difference? :) |
| 08:54.44 | tigert | http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/sets/72157622111856117/ |
| 08:54.47 | MaceN8x0 | univ of minn has a fairy tale expert? |
| 08:54.47 | glass | pretty pics are the difference |
| 08:54.59 | MaceN8x0 | like |
| 08:55.04 | tigert | the berlin wall set is from last summit |
| 08:55.15 | MaceN8x0 | does he have a phd in fairy tales? |
| 08:55.24 | glass | MaceN8x0: probably |
| 08:55.34 | glass | MaceN8x0: their history is actually intresting |
| 08:55.47 | glass | brothers grimm are pretty grimm haha |
| 08:56.16 | MaceN8x0 | haha |
| 08:56.19 | glass | so flower hat ladys can be put to their place with enough know of the tales & history |
| 08:56.31 | MaceN8x0 | but... "an expert in fairy tales" |
| 08:56.41 | MaceN8x0 | ? |
| 08:56.56 | MaceN8x0 | does his business card say that? |
| 08:57.02 | glass | better than professor of theology in an all christian university |
| 08:57.05 | glass | dunno |
| 08:57.08 | glass | would be cool |
| 08:57.11 | MaceN8x0 | Professor, univ of minn |
| 08:57.23 | MaceN8x0 | (and fairy tale expert) |
| 08:58.00 | glass | also such know i imagine would come handy in combatting some intellectual property wackos who think they own the idea for prince saving a princess |
| 08:58.04 | tigert | X-Fade: http://www.tigert.com/2009/09/07/ho-hum-2/ |
| 08:58.21 | tigert | wonders if his design sketch actually makes sense |
| 08:58.26 | *** join/#maemo calvaris (n=calvaris@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 08:58.28 | tigert | at first thought at least |
| 08:59.17 | wjt | tigert: so, how did you turn the Berlin Wall into a full panorama? where's the seam? |
| 08:59.38 | tigert | wjt: Gimp(tm) |
| 08:59.44 | tigert | some cloning |
| 08:59.49 | tigert | I try to remember |
| 08:59.53 | tigert | its been a while since I did this one |
| 09:00.19 | RST38h | Anyone knows if there is RSS reader being planned for N900? |
| 09:00.37 | RST38h | I mean, real RSS reader, one that does not start web browser on each click? |
| 09:00.51 | MaceN8x0 | haha |
| 09:00.54 | johnx | RST38h, google reader. har har har |
| 09:00.57 | MaceN8x0 | or destroy the battery? |
| 09:01.00 | wjt | tigert: Gimp was roughly what I expected. :) |
| 09:01.04 | MaceN8x0 | maybe goes idle? |
| 09:01.16 | tigert | RST38h: http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications/ -> applications -> RSS reader |
| 09:01.32 | tigert | wjt: yeah |
| 09:01.38 | johnx | RST38h, let me guess: you don't write requirements documents? :) |
| 09:01.48 | tigert | wjt: the seam is in the left side of "JAM" |
| 09:02.18 | RST38h | johnx: Sometimes I do |
| 09:02.44 | *** join/#maemo victorpoluceno (n=Victor@189.72.83.229) |
| 09:03.04 | RST38h | actually uses Google Reader, but would prefer a native app, especially considering that one is already included into Maemo |
| 09:03.08 | MaceN8x0 | the memory part |
| 09:03.22 | MaceN8x0 | why do they lump it together like that? |
| 09:03.36 | MaceN8x0 | ram and storage should be seperate |
| 09:03.50 | MaceN8x0 | finnish marketing ploy? |
| 09:03.55 | RST38h | tigert: Does it do the right thing or does it behave like Maemo4 reader? |
| 09:04.08 | MaceN8x0 | like saying 19.99 instead of 20? |
| 09:04.21 | tigert | RST38h: I havent actually used it, I dont do rss myself |
| 09:04.32 | johnx | MaceN8x0, where are you seeing them lumping it together? |
| 09:04.35 | MaceN8x0 | Up to 1GB of application memory (256 MB RAM, 768 MB virtual memory) |
| 09:04.35 | MaceN8x0 | er |
| 09:04.36 | tigert | and I couldnt comment on that probably since the sw is not yet out :( |
| 09:04.39 | MaceN8x0 | my bad |
| 09:04.46 | tigert | only does podcasts really |
| 09:04.50 | MaceN8x0 | says virtual memory |
| 09:06.54 | thp | tigert: i heard podcasts, thought i might chime in... |
| 09:07.08 | *** join/#maemo Andy80 (n=andy80@237.52.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 09:07.34 | Andy80 | hi all |
| 09:07.37 | tigert | thp: yeah |
| 09:07.55 | thp | tigert: had you had a chance to test the latest gpodder? od dont you do podcasts on-device? |
| 09:08.01 | tigert | thp: http://www.tigert.com/2009/09/07/ho-hum-2/ |
| 09:08.11 | tigert | thp: wrote some fun ascii art about ui ideas |
| 09:08.15 | tigert | hopefully you like them? |
| 09:09.19 | thp | awesome! will have a look and try to integrate them |
| 09:09.58 | tigert | oh hey |
| 09:10.05 | tigert | there was some issue also I forgot |
| 09:10.06 | tigert | wait |
| 09:10.40 | tigert | or was it some other app |
| 09:11.05 | tigert | well, need to tell you when I remember what it was :) |
| 09:11.41 | thp | yep. in vast i am not here (or not really), just ping me via e-mail |
| 09:11.49 | tigert | yea |
| 09:11.52 | thp | s/vast/case/ |
| 09:13.40 | *** join/#maemo _berto_ (n=berto@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 09:13.59 | tigert | ok |
| 09:14.09 | tigert | feel free to comment on that blogpost |
| 09:14.14 | tigert | I hope my captcha etc works |
| 09:15.50 | thp | will do |
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| 09:25.07 | timeless_mbp | andre__: um |
| 09:25.13 | timeless_mbp | distinct qa contacts are appreciated :) |
| 09:25.32 | andre__ | timeless_mbp, for flash they now exist ;-) |
| 09:25.38 | timeless_mbp | plugin others? :) |
| 09:25.52 | timeless_mbp | note that people are welcome to foolishly install vlc or something |
| 09:26.01 | timeless_mbp | and for the n900 we have ~5 plugins |
| 09:26.10 | timeless_mbp | (not that people would want to use, that's different( |
| 09:26.53 | andre__ | that's a different issue. and we had "Plug-Ins: Others" before too anyway |
| 09:26.54 | andre__ | nothing new |
| 09:29.22 | timeless_mbp | ah, you made a game general component? :) |
| 09:30.08 | andre__ | yes. it's better. also to what i see in the internal bugtracker with regard to their organization |
| 09:30.42 | andre__ | i'll add/change a few trivial things in maemo.org bugzilla today - first preparations for fremantle |
| 09:30.51 | timeless_mbp | hey |
| 09:30.53 | timeless_mbp | i've got strings |
| 09:30.53 | andre__ | and from tomorrow on i'll be on holidays anyway ;-) |
| 09:30.56 | timeless_mbp | wanna play? :) |
| 09:31.10 | andre__ | nope, really want to get my stuff done today :) |
| 09:32.36 | Stskeeps | how long are you on holidays for? |
| 09:32.40 | johnx | crap, I'm starting to feel somewhat competent with regular expressions. that's probably a sure sign of insanity |
| 09:32.54 | Stskeeps | yes |
| 09:33.42 | andre__ | Stskeeps, from tuesday to tuesday. 8 days |
| 09:33.58 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: did you grab that file? |
| 09:34.09 | andre__ | @world: if someone else is in istanbul, drop me a line. now. :-P |
| 09:34.21 | timeless_mbp | andre__: heh, been there, did that |
| 09:34.28 | timeless_mbp | i found out there was someone who'd have gladly given us a tour |
| 09:34.34 | timeless_mbp | but only at the very end of the stay :( |
| 09:34.40 | MaceN8x0 | haha |
| 09:34.56 | MaceN8x0 | istanbul? |
| 09:34.58 | timeless_mbp | yes |
| 09:35.09 | MaceN8x0 | nice city? |
| 09:35.27 | andre__ | definitely. been there last year for guadec conference. |
| 09:35.50 | timeless_mbp | still has photos to upload :( |
| 09:36.23 | timeless_mbp | andre__: re 4112, i *hope* it isn't possible based on the new layout |
| 09:36.32 | timeless_mbp | but someone should grep the sources |
| 09:37.03 | andre__ | timeless_mbp, i'm going to close that one anyway soon if you don't respond ;-)) |
| 09:37.21 | timeless_mbp | aww, i'll walk to work and figure it out |
| 09:37.33 | timeless_mbp | btw, my internal bugzilla account expired |
| 09:37.41 | timeless_mbp | so don't ask me to look at the internal bugzilla ;-) |
| 09:41.15 | johnx | I think I just wrote a generalized apt-repository .list parser in sed and bash :/ |
| 09:42.24 | timeless_mbp | *why* |
| 09:44.00 | johnx | well it's part of writing my own auto-builder |
| 09:44.14 | Stskeeps | ah, going for PPC? :P |
| 09:44.26 | Stskeeps | why not just grab OBS? :P |
| 09:44.38 | johnx | yeah, seemed simpler than setting up my own OBS on an unsupported platform |
| 09:44.51 | johnx | *seemed* at the time |
| 09:45.10 | timeless_mbp | very funny |
| 09:45.22 | timeless_mbp | does quazi build stuff from solaris/nexenta |
| 09:45.23 | johnx | anyways, it's basically done, and it works a little different than a regular autobuilder, should be lots faster at the cost of not being very strict |
| 09:45.39 | thux | ot how i ask xorg what driver it use? |
| 09:46.41 | lcuk | runs to the corner of the chan and screams at the top of his voice before returning all calm |
| 09:47.03 | Stskeeps | what's the stress about |
| 09:47.06 | Stskeeps | ? |
| 09:47.31 | lcuk | :) |
| 09:47.36 | lcuk | theres always stress |
| 09:47.46 | lcuk | hiya btw |
| 09:47.54 | lcuk | hope you have a great life in your new home |
| 09:48.04 | johnx | lcuk, I do that at work from time to time |
| 09:48.13 | lcuk | hasnt got a job |
| 09:48.17 | lcuk | cant do it anymore |
| 09:48.37 | johnx | well it's usually *caused* by work |
| 09:48.50 | johnx | right now it's caused by line after line of regular expressions |
| 09:49.16 | lcuk | haha |
| 09:49.26 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=Miranda@gwh-1-22-val21.ln.rinet.ru) |
| 09:49.30 | lcuk | i just put in a profanity filter and ended up avoiding regex |
| 09:51.30 | johnx | yeah, my whole console looks like an overactive profanity filter |
| 09:51.37 | lcuk | lol |
| 09:51.58 | lcuk | find out what you can about graphics modes on the wii btw |
| 09:52.11 | lcuk | i would quite like to clickzoom through a whole world there :) |
| 09:52.27 | *** join/#maemo stemosco (n=stemosco@esprx02x.nokia.com) |
| 09:52.28 | johnx | want some code to look at? |
| 09:52.49 | lcuk | noooo not now |
| 09:52.53 | lcuk | far too much to do |
| 09:53.03 | lcuk | just specs on graphics modes |
| 09:53.07 | johnx | ah, well, I'll poke at you later then :) |
| 09:53.11 | lcuk | ta :) |
| 09:53.21 | johnx | hmm, basically it's 640x480, and their fb isn't RGB |
| 09:53.26 | johnx | but that's all I know |
| 09:53.28 | lcuk | isnt? |
| 09:53.33 | johnx | correct |
| 09:53.36 | lcuk | btw, if i do "make install" |
| 09:53.47 | lcuk | is there a standard for "make remove" |
| 09:53.53 | johnx | make uninstall |
| 09:53.59 | johnx | if that specific makefile supports it |
| 09:54.02 | lcuk | but im guessing only if the makefile supports it |
| 09:54.06 | lcuk | yeah |
| 09:54.07 | lcuk | damn |
| 09:54.09 | johnx | bingo :) |
| 09:54.13 | wazd | hello maemo :) |
| 09:54.15 | lcuk | will just wipe out folders wholesale |
| 09:54.35 | lcuk | i could do with other test machines for crap like this |
| 09:54.36 | lcuk | :) |
| 09:54.36 | lcuk | hi wazd |
| 09:55.26 | johnx | lcuk, I'd run find and find files created after a certain date |
| 09:55.29 | lbt | johnx: I'm pretty handy at regexp if you need help |
| 09:55.39 | johnx | I think I've sorted it now |
| 09:55.45 | lcuk | johnx, its media which was created a while ago |
| 09:55.48 | lbt | np |
| 09:56.09 | johnx | part of it was trying to design huge regexps in one shot instead of using an interative process |
| 09:56.32 | johnx | feels good to be finally learning them though, and thanks for the offer :) |
| 09:56.44 | lcuk | i might speak to you later about regexp based searching - it could be benficial but regular users wouldnt understand syntax |
| 09:57.06 | johnx | s/regular users/most sane humans/ |
| 09:57.12 | lcuk | yeah |
| 09:57.16 | lcuk | thats why david knows em lol |
| 09:57.22 | lcuk | has short hair |
| 09:57.27 | lbt | perl... |
| 09:57.40 | lcuk | no, gel |
| 09:57.46 | lbt | zero width lookahead assertions are cool |
| 09:58.15 | lcuk | heh |
| 09:58.18 | johnx | a friend showed me a perl program he had done for a class. there was the goal of the program, then there was his goal: to never explicitly declare a variable |
| 09:58.20 | lcuk | it fries my mind |
| 09:58.30 | timeless_mbp | heh |
| 09:58.30 | lcuk | i am happy with wildcards and simple pattern matching |
| 09:58.40 | lcuk | but think google syntax is spectacular |
| 09:58.54 | lcuk | in my work programs i always tried to add a single search all box :) |
| 09:59.09 | lcuk | ive gone one better in the playground ;) |
| 09:59.21 | lbt | soundex |
| 09:59.25 | lcuk | hasnt coded em all up tho |
| 09:59.26 | lbt | lookex() |
| 09:59.43 | lcuk | lbt, its not that part of it |
| 09:59.56 | lcuk | its passing the search to every widget on screen and giving them a chance to respond |
| 10:00.05 | lcuk | so typing "david" might matter to just a couple of widgets |
| 10:00.10 | lcuk | the rest would vanish |
| 10:00.21 | lbt | dbus |
| 10:00.37 | lbt | would be quite a cool API for the desktop actually |
| 10:00.41 | lcuk | :) |
| 10:01.04 | lbt | hmm |
| 10:01.07 | lcuk | i have a bug where the operating system sometimes eats my keypresses and opens a search of its own |
| 10:01.08 | lbt | goes away |
| 10:01.27 | lcuk | does too ive got loads to do |
| 10:01.34 | lbt | tiagofalcao[AWAY: bugger off |
| 10:01.49 | lcuk | yes i had him in box a few times too |
| 10:02.46 | lbt | I'll say away if I want too |
| 10:02.47 | lbt | to |
| 10:02.55 | lbt | good /ignore works then ;) |
| 10:04.20 | wazd | Peter rocks :D |
| 10:04.26 | *** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@net-84.nrpn.net) |
| 10:04.39 | wazd | "This is my wife, this is... who's that?! Oh! THIS is my wife!" :D |
| 10:05.01 | usir | can maemo5 snapshot any x11 window and let user browse through running apps? |
| 10:05.19 | usir | or does that require "jildonization" |
| 10:05.20 | lcuk | usir, its got compositing |
| 10:05.30 | usir | yeah |
| 10:05.32 | lcuk | go watch some videos and drool |
| 10:05.35 | usir | for dsl games too?Ã< |
| 10:05.50 | usir | sdl |
| 10:05.51 | *** join/#maemo mgedmin (n=mg@office.pov.lt) |
| 10:05.55 | usir | i did |
| 10:05.59 | johnx | usir, even for gl games it seems |
| 10:06.01 | lcuk | is not an oracle |
| 10:06.22 | lcuk | 1 screen down, 4 to go |
| 10:06.29 | lcuk | 5 |
| 10:06.38 | *** join/#maemo povbot (n=supybot@office.pov.lt) |
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| 10:14.45 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: did you manage to download the file? |
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| 10:48.06 | Jaffa | lcuk: Seems I might be talking with you at onedotzero on Saturday |
| 10:48.38 | lcuk | :) |
| 10:48.57 | lcuk | talk with me before if possible |
| 10:49.06 | lcuk | im meeting simon for beers on thursday |
| 10:49.09 | lcuk | can you come? |
| 10:50.17 | Jaffa | lcuk: Not on Thursday, I'm in Stockholm. I'm in the office on Friday, tho |
| 10:50.36 | lcuk | is that nearby? |
| 10:51.06 | Jaffa | Yeah, near Liverpool Street |
| 10:51.42 | lcuk | ok, ive pmed my mobile number |
| 10:54.17 | Andy80 | Jaffa: I know... I'm a bit annoying sometimes... :) but.... flights are costing each day more :( (damn flight companies...) when, about, are you/Nokia going to send travel informations, so I can see if I can find a cheaper flight and save few moneys for other people? Thanks :) |
| 10:54.38 | RST38h | "We have not found one operator which has created shareholder value with iPhone," Strand alleges. |
| 10:54.48 | RST38h | Operators pay much of their iPhone-related earnings to Apple and arriers also have to subsidise the handset to reach a price point that customers are willing to pay. Together, these two factors leave the networks out of pocket, the company said. |
| 10:55.26 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
| 10:55.54 | *** join/#maemo victorpoluceno (n=Victor@189.75.19.180) |
| 10:56.22 | *** join/#maemo jukey (n=jukey@kamiserver.de) |
| 10:57.05 | glass | RST38h: sulplize? |
| 10:57.11 | *** join/#maemo emilioF (n=emilio@93-47-145-169.ip113.fastwebnet.it) |
| 10:58.49 | RST38h | glass: Not to me |
| 10:58.58 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at) |
| 10:59.13 | RST38h | glass: mobile-review had a short article a few weeks ago on how .RU operators got screwed on iPhone |
| 10:59.14 | Jaffa | Andy80: You'll know when cos you'll get a mail :-p |
| 10:59.30 | Jaffa | Andy80: Tested the system this morning, and it didn't work. So X-Fade and I are investigating |
| 10:59.33 | RST38h | glass: This one is just more of the same, on global scale |
| 11:00.58 | Andy80 | Jaffa: ok, sorry again ;) |
| 11:06.14 | Jaffa | Andy80: Nah, having the system close to working; the majority sorted and Nokia World out-of-the-way has me much more relaxed |
| 11:07.35 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=valerio@bl6-237-250.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 11:07.48 | Andy80 | 1.2.3 test |
| 11:07.53 | Andy80 | (my connection went down) |
| 11:09.23 | Jaffa | _berto_: +1 on Qt/Hildon email |
| 11:10.12 | Andy80 | Jaffa: it looks like a cold war between Gtk/Hildon team and Qt one :D |
| 11:13.13 | Jaffa | Andy80: Indeed ;-) |
| 11:14.05 | andre__ | wonders how a hot war would look like |
| 11:17.06 | lcuk | imagines amazonian warrier princesses with ample boobage and a bead of sweat running down the cleavage |
| 11:17.22 | Andy80 | :D |
| 11:17.52 | SpeedEvil | imagines improvised weapons with webcams and image recognition. |
| 11:18.12 | lcuk | hey - we are maemo. we have to touch |
| 11:18.27 | RST38h | imagines a humongous space ship equipped with nets |
| 11:18.37 | lcuk | has short hair |
| 11:18.46 | lcuk | i looked like a shaggy dog before |
| 11:19.10 | SpeedEvil | has scaled back from the RMS beard. |
| 11:19.51 | RST38h | No longer a Unix guru? =) |
| 11:20.41 | VDVsx | andre__, thanks for the tests :), |
| 11:20.42 | lcuk | finally had time to do something about it |
| 11:20.42 | lcuk | nearly broke the barbers shaver tho :S |
| 11:20.42 | VDVsx | andre__, I forgot to comment a line in the script, that was the cause of the 'twice presses' ;) |
| 11:20.44 | andre__ | VDVsx, hope it helps |
| 11:21.02 | lcuk | VDVsx, andre__ sort out the problem with key input? |
| 11:21.21 | andre__ | yepp |
| 11:21.29 | lcuk | great stuff! |
| 11:21.45 | andre__ | well, the problem with return key not working but spacebar |
| 11:22.20 | lcuk | there are similar bugs in m4 sdl too |
| 11:22.28 | lcuk | pupnik tried to solve them properly |
| 11:22.39 | RST38h | Hmm...Peter is aware of LiveJournal. Interesting. |
| 11:22.43 | lcuk | things like Fn havign to be held whilst pressing numbers |
| 11:22.55 | lcuk | RST38h, thats not interesting, thats worrying |
| 11:23.13 | lcuk | almost as bad as admitting to havign a geocities page :D |
| 11:23.25 | Stskeeps | timeless: right now i'm wondering if the polish electricity killed something |
| 11:23.38 | RST38h | lcuk: Why? Compared to Facebook or Twitter, LiveJournal looks almost elitist =) |
| 11:23.45 | lcuk | lol |
| 11:24.24 | VDVsx | andre__, I think this is the sdl bug that lcuk is talking about, because the keycodes are correct |
| 11:24.31 | VDVsx | I've to confirm :) |
| 11:25.03 | lcuk | VDVsx, i know it is because i had to solve them myself in lb |
| 11:25.05 | lcuk | :P |
| 11:25.16 | _berto_ | Jaffa: sorry, i was away |
| 11:25.23 | VDVsx | lcuk, in diablo as well ? |
| 11:25.28 | _berto_ | Jaffa: you mean the one that I've just sent? |
| 11:25.30 | lcuk | yes |
| 11:25.45 | lcuk | this is because there is no hildon input method doing the required nokia device conversions |
| 11:25.49 | lcuk | like sticky keys |
| 11:26.17 | lcuk | qt have same kind of fix in their stack too |
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| 11:26.30 | lcuk | its the same for all toolkits |
| 11:26.36 | lcuk | and sdl just hasnt been dealt with |
| 11:27.03 | VDVsx | lcuk, yeah, it's normal for the fn stuff, but strange for the standard keys |
| 11:27.40 | lcuk | not really |
| 11:27.43 | lcuk | anyway, bbiab |
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| 11:28.49 | RST38h | Oh, shit, in Peter's Maemo demo, at the end... |
| 11:29.08 | RST38h | He scrolls through a list of pictures, then (while it is still scrolling) calls up the task switcher |
| 11:29.26 | RST38h | And you can see the little preview of the gallery app continue scrolling =) |
| 11:29.43 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 11:30.04 | Stskeeps | composite = cool |
| 11:32.46 | _berto_ | i imagine you've already seen this: http://conversations.nokia.com/2009/09/07/n900-wins-nokia-world-09-popularity-contest/ |
| 11:33.10 | mgedmin | hasn't |
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| 11:34.02 | _berto_ | which is related to http://www.unwiredview.com/2009/09/05/nw09-impressions-did-nokia-underestimate-how-good-n900-really-is/ |
| 11:35.48 | wazd | RST38h: russian guy was funny :) |
| 11:36.09 | wazd | RST38h: He was talking like a terrorist from an action movie :D |
| 11:37.39 | RST38h | wazd: He was ok really, half of Brighton population has got worse accent |
| 11:38.42 | mmu_screen | funny |
| 11:39.22 | mmu_screen | why do they ship products they don't care about then ? :) |
| 11:39.30 | RST38h | Who "they"? |
| 11:39.35 | mmu_screen | nokia |
| 11:39.51 | RST38h | Nokia is many people and many departments |
| 11:39.53 | wazd | Peter is an awesome PR guy, I he will tell that maemo 6 device will be able to turn into a car - I'll believe :) |
| 11:39.54 | X-Fade | I guess it is just about managing expectations. |
| 11:40.26 | RST38h | wazd: Let us have Peter vs Steve Jobs fight, like NOW! =) |
| 11:41.10 | roope | It is not in the best interests of Nokia to downplay Symbian in any way. |
| 11:41.25 | mmu_screen | I'd try Haiku on an N900... |
| 11:41.27 | roope | That's where the money comes from, obviously. And will come for a long time. |
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| 11:41.34 | wazd | RST38h: well, I like Peters acting manner more than Jobs' cause Steve uses awfully too much "gorgeous", "revolutionary", "extrordinary" and stuff |
| 11:41.59 | Robot101 | http://www.mobilenewscwp.co.uk/News/314511/nokia_networks_may_reject_n900.html |
| 11:42.02 | mmu_screen | wazd: and when you know they copied all their ideas from BeOS and other existing OSes... |
| 11:42.16 | Robot101 | roope: ^^ downplaying maemo this much seems un-necessary though |
| 11:42.26 | wazd | mmu_screen: I'm not talking bout Apple now :) |
| 11:42.33 | RST38h | wazd: Peter is European, that is why |
| 11:42.38 | roope | Then again, "because it cannot be customized" is far away from any truth. |
| 11:42.53 | wazd | RST38h: well, maybe :) |
| 11:42.55 | X-Fade | roope: provider locked down :) |
| 11:42.58 | Stskeeps | it can be customized but people can remove it again ;) |
| 11:43.06 | roope | When operators talk about customization, they talk about "not allowing the users to customize", really. |
| 11:43.27 | mmu_screen | ponders about going to an SFR or Orange shop asking for an N900 |
| 11:43.31 | RST38h | roope: well, the guy directly said that Maemo decided to disallow customization for now to avoid maintaining different versions |
| 11:43.31 | Robot101 | roope: yeah |
| 11:43.33 | _berto_ | I think i've found a problem with the web archive in lists.maemo.org |
| 11:43.44 | SpeedEvil | mmu_screen: We need a campaign. |
| 11:43.52 | SpeedEvil | mmu_screen: Get a bus - load it up with people. |
| 11:43.55 | Robot101 | hasn't met anyone who likes operator "customisations". it must be a pretty depressing job... |
| 11:43.56 | mmu_screen | eh |
| 11:43.59 | RST38h | roope; So that thing Jaaksi said about "unable to be customized" was a mistake |
| 11:44.03 | _berto_ | Is there a component in bugzilla for that ? |
| 11:44.07 | SpeedEvil | mmu_screen: Go store-store _all_ going in and requesting a n900 |
| 11:44.17 | roope | Adding stuff to the menus etc. is a trivial thing to do. But there are no mechanisms in preventing recustomization, kind of. |
| 11:44.46 | wazd | I think it was sarcasm :) |
| 11:44.57 | roope | I.e. an operator can do their own home screen in a day, really. (well, kind of). But then the users can remove it in a minute. |
| 11:45.12 | wazd | It can't be "customized" in the way operators want to :) |
| 11:45.21 | roope | It's a bit depressing to read statements like that from Nokia execs. |
| 11:45.23 | SpeedEvil | I would like a customised phone. If it was lots cheaper. |
| 11:45.49 | Robot101 | roope: srsly :( |
| 11:45.51 | wazd | SpeedEvil: that's why Windows 7 Starter edition appeared |
| 11:45.55 | roope | But they're trying to upplay Symbian, which does have more prebuilt configurations and options for operators. |
| 11:46.07 | X-Fade | _berto_: I guess you need to use Website -> general for that. |
| 11:46.10 | Robot101 | hopes people vote with their feet on this one |
| 11:46.15 | ShadowJK | cutsomized usually means you get no new firmware and no bugfixes :) |
| 11:46.22 | X-Fade | _berto_: In which case it ends up ..... with me ;) |
| 11:46.37 | Robot101 | the problem is Nokia's strategy of pushing services on their devices brings them into competition with the carriers, who always try and cram on loads of crap tie-ins that nobody actually wants |
| 11:47.00 | roope | rst38h: Well, of course it's like... For instance with software updates, the assumption is to have only one version to flash and update. |
| 11:47.01 | _berto_ | X-Fade: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020544.html |
| 11:47.07 | mmu_screen | SpeedEvil: care to come to Alchimie 2k9 to talk about Maemo btw ? could be interesting... |
| 11:47.09 | _berto_ | X-Fade: the part that I wrote is missing |
| 11:47.17 | mmu_screen | in french if possible |
| 11:47.17 | wazd | Robot101: the problem is open software :) You can't close it, but it ruins "business" |
| 11:47.18 | RST38h | roope: i.e. it should be read as "because it cannot be sodomized" |
| 11:47.25 | roope | As Peter was saying. |
| 11:47.27 | _berto_ | X-Fade: I guess because it starts with "From " |
| 11:47.30 | SpeedEvil | mmu_screen: I care to - but I have no way of getting there - and would need to learn french. |
| 11:47.45 | mmu_screen | http://www.triplea.fr/alchimie/ |
| 11:47.52 | mmu_screen | :p |
| 11:47.52 | RST38h | roope: btw, I do not see why everyone is claiming that "users can change it all back" |
| 11:47.53 | SpeedEvil | mmu_screen: I currently know how to ask for a baguette - but not much more :) |
| 11:47.55 | Robot101 | wazd: forcing your customers to use other parts of your service doesn't tend to make them happier or more likely to get another phone from you |
| 11:47.57 | roope | But subsidies are interesting. People know, logically, that a subsidized phone isn't really cheaper, on the contrary. |
| 11:48.01 | X-Fade | _berto_: Hmm mailman / pipermail bug then. |
| 11:48.02 | roope | Operators do it to make a profit. |
| 11:48.05 | RST38h | roope: It should be possible to lock that, really |
| 11:48.07 | _berto_ | X-Fade: yes |
| 11:48.09 | SpeedEvil | roope: Well - ... |
| 11:48.12 | roope | But still the initial pain of paying for the device is hard for many. |
| 11:48.19 | Stskeeps | RST38h: maemo's too open for that :P |
| 11:48.22 | SpeedEvil | roope: True - however - false. |
| 11:48.26 | _berto_ | X-Fade: where do I report that? or will you do it for me? :p |
| 11:48.36 | Robot101 | wazd: thats why I like to see "game changing" devices where the operators have to, er, suck it up, and ship it anyway, because otherwise people will just go to another operator :) |
| 11:48.43 | wazd | Anyway, iPhone sells subsidized without any operator's junk |
| 11:48.55 | SpeedEvil | roope: True in the sense that of course it's true - false in the sense that it may be impossible to buy as good a deal as you get with a subsidised phone with sim only. |
| 11:49.00 | roope | But I'm pretty sure we'll see operator deals announced. |
| 11:49.00 | wazd | without even a logo on the body |
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| 11:49.05 | Robot101 | thats because operators were falling over themselves to get the exclusive deals :) |
| 11:49.17 | glass | some were, some were not |
| 11:49.27 | wazd | iPhone is beeing sold ofcourse :D |
| 11:49.29 | RST38h | Sts: open, shmopen, just restore configuration from ROM on bootup |
| 11:49.33 | glass | for some opers getting the iphone was their justification for existence |
| 11:49.38 | X-Fade | _berto_: Please report it as I don't have time to look at it more closely right now. |
| 11:49.40 | roope | Operators love subsidized devices, because it helps to decrease churn. And churn basically kills profit. |
| 11:49.43 | _berto_ | X-Fade: ok ! |
| 11:49.45 | RST38h | glass: How is that? |
| 11:49.46 | SpeedEvil | roope: for example - three.co.uk - 15 quid a month for 18 months gets you a hundred-quid-ish phone. 15 quid a month with no contract gives you the more or less same or slightly substandard deal - less internet forex. |
| 11:50.14 | glass | RST38h: because of the cool factor.. and unability to compete otherwise |
| 11:50.21 | SpeedEvil | roope: and no 100 quid ish phone |
| 11:50.53 | Robot101 | SpeedEvil: normal economics don't apply to three, they're almost paying people to be customers. still. :P |
| 11:50.54 | glass | anyways, theres more to subsidized phones than theres on the surface, like how easy or not they are to hack |
| 11:51.04 | roope | speedevil: Yes, depends on the country of course. |
| 11:51.20 | roope | Finland has traditionally had very good non-subsidized deals, for instance. |
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| 11:51.52 | RST38h | glass: If you mean AT&T, they have been pretty competitive before iphone :) |
| 11:51.57 | SpeedEvil | Robot101: I haven't looked at their buisness case recently. |
| 11:52.00 | glass | RST38h: not at&t |
| 11:52.01 | Robot101 | (like NTL/VirginMedia, they're still screwed by debt from cabling the entire country, so they can't often afford to put in new cables to get new customers, they just have to squeeze all of the existing accessible customers for as much revenue as they can) |
| 11:52.05 | roope | But anyway. Operators push those deals where they make the most money in the long run. That's obvious of course. |
| 11:52.08 | glass | RST38h: europe region opers.. |
| 11:52.14 | RST38h | glass: Ah |
| 11:52.27 | Robot101 | lives next to a Virgin media office and has no cable because its a newish house :P |
| 11:52.30 | RST38h | glass: but I guess you only get lulz for exclusivity, no? |
| 11:52.35 | SpeedEvil | Robot101: yeah - three are the only still really extant company that actually paid for 3g spectrum aren't they. |
| 11:52.40 | RST38h | glass: I.e. you have ot be the only guy on th eblock with iphone? |
| 11:52.56 | qwerty12_N810 | Robot101: ...but still not worth it as Sky gets you more channels :p |
| 11:52.57 | glass | RST38h: pretty much, and those guys imported iphones from the gray market anyhow |
| 11:53.03 | roope | Of course for instance for a 500 dollar phone the operator doesn't pay 500 for it. etc. |
| 11:53.08 | glass | if talking about persons |
| 11:53.10 | Robot101 | SpeedEvil: they're the only one who was new and paid for it with funding, rather than being a huge operator already |
| 11:53.21 | glass | RST38h: the oper who got iphone in finland made a big fuss about getting it |
| 11:53.49 | glass | RST38h: still, in general respect, they suck. they weren't in the 10e/month unlimited data wagon early enough |
| 11:54.00 | glass | RST38h: mostly apparently because their sales guy used to sell soda |
| 11:54.10 | RST38h | glass: hehe |
| 11:54.16 | RST38h | glass: it was even worse in .RU |
| 11:54.41 | RST38h | glass: When the major operators got into deals with Apple, pretty much everyone who wanted an iphone got one |
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| 11:55.03 | RST38h | glass: Usually, bought at US apple store, then brought in and unlocked, then sold for ~$800-$900 |
| 11:55.06 | SpeedEvil | random - can anyone with internet from three post their ppp logs? I'm having trouble connecting. |
| 11:55.41 | RST38h | glass: So, the operators who committed to sell X million iPhones suddenly found themselves with a lot of inventory on their hands and no way to move it |
| 11:56.20 | glass | RST38h: yeh i can imagine russia being a hard market to sell |
| 11:56.21 | RST38h | glass: They are now selling iPhones for about $450 as part of "special action" |
| 11:56.36 | RST38h | glass: Well, 5800 seem to sell like hotcakes |
| 11:56.51 | glass | RST38h: yeah but 5800 is 300e unsubbed.. :p |
| 11:56.56 | wazd | RST38h: special action is over :) |
| 11:56.57 | RST38h | glass: But iPhone has been a status symbol from the beginning |
| 11:57.09 | RST38h | wazd: So, what next? Corporate gifts? Charity? =) |
| 11:57.31 | wazd | RST38h: and $450 was for 8gb |
| 11:57.34 | RST38h | glass: Every metrosexual male and every whore in the city has got an iphone by now |
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| 11:57.43 | wazd | RST38h: drop em from the plane :) |
| 11:58.12 | wazd | RST38h: well, it was hard to buy it for that price |
| 11:58.21 | wazd | RST38h: store fights and so on :) |
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| 12:00.07 | RST38h | ehehe |
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| 12:01.32 | wazd | goodbye Europe :D |
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| 12:04.17 | Andy80 | wazd: I'm in europe and still here :) |
| 12:04.18 | ShadowJK | wonders how come no podcast apps have sort by publish date |
| 12:04.49 | ShadowJK | although s60 podcast app / media player can sort by date, but only in newst-first order |
| 12:05.10 | ShadowJK | which kinda sucks when I want to listen in chronological order |
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| 12:07.07 | tigert | which is funny because most rss readers do that |
| 12:07.29 | thp | ShadowJK: gpodder sorts in reverse-chronological order (newest episodes on top) |
| 12:08.47 | ShadowJK | ooh |
| 12:09.35 | ShadowJK | oh, reverse :/ |
| 12:09.46 | thp | given that every widget by default scrolls to the top, this makes the new episodes be visible at first |
| 12:10.04 | thp | if you have sorted it in chronological order, you would have to scroll down all the way to see the "interesting" episodes |
| 12:10.25 | *** join/#maemo MuJ (i=muttilai@so.stnd.net) |
| 12:10.47 | thp | and given how basically every scrollable area defaults to starting "at the top", having the view scroll to the bottom on display also is kind of unexpected for the user, i presume |
| 12:10.59 | SpeedEvil | ponders getting a n900, and then paying for it by doing requests with it on myfreecams. |
| 12:11.54 | ShadowJK | I usually use the rss reader to track new episodes, then I download with wget and manually sort in chronological order and dump to my mp3 player, and listen to the various shows in chronological order. Then I delete the files |
| 12:12.20 | ShadowJK | hasnt found a program that would automate it yet |
| 12:12.36 | ShadowJK | even when removing the "dump to mp3 player" part :) |
| 12:14.01 | thp | if your mp3 player presents itself as a usb mass storage device, i suppose you could do this with gpodder |
| 12:14.10 | *** join/#maemo ijon_ (n=ijon@dhcp172-152-red.yandex.net) |
| 12:14.26 | thp | well, actually, i _know_ you can do this when i come to think of it. |
| 12:15.09 | thp | you simply set up your mp3 player's root, set a custom sync name (YYYY-MM-DD Episode Title) and you should be good to go |
| 12:15.46 | ShadowJK | as long as gpodder then writes out in right order :) |
| 12:16.05 | thp | can't your mp3 player sort by filename? |
| 12:16.24 | ShadowJK | it sorts by inode or something |
| 12:16.45 | thp | ah. ok. let me have a look at the source (long time no digging in the sync module..) |
| 12:17.40 | ShadowJK | iirc when I tried gpodder it became showA-monday showA-tuesday showA-wednesday showB-monday showB-tuesday etc |
| 12:18.38 | thp | well, it does create folders for each show |
| 12:19.05 | thp | but the sync order (in which files are copied to the device) is ascending pubDate (if the pubDate is set in the feed, that is ;) |
| 12:19.49 | thp | and you can disabling per-podcast subfolders (set fssync_channel_subfolders=False in the advanced config editor) |
| 12:19.59 | thp | s/ing/e/ |
| 12:20.03 | ShadowJK | hm, I should try that |
| 12:20.20 | *** join/#maemo paperclip1 (n=Stanley@246.120.0-93.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 12:20.47 | thp | oh, and one last hint: take the latest version from gpodder.org, as distros sometimes ship with pretty outdated versions. ugly outdated, even.. |
| 12:21.06 | ShadowJK | was using the one in extras |
| 12:21.53 | thp | oh, yeah. the maemo package is kept up to date all the time ;) |
| 12:22.14 | thp | thought you were hooking up your portable mp3 player to your linux machine.. |
| 12:22.37 | ShadowJK | i was hooking it up to tablet |
| 12:23.18 | ShadowJK | was easier to try it out there when it was in extras |
| 12:23.23 | _berto_ | no one uploaded a video showing the n900 tv out yet? |
| 12:23.53 | ShadowJK | the lack of hw controls makes n8x0 not practical as player for me |
| 12:24.03 | thp | ShadowJK: the latest version is always in Maemo extras |
| 12:24.22 | thp | all that sync-to-mp3-player stuff is only available (or: exposed in the UI) in the desktop version, though.. |
| 12:24.30 | ShadowJK | hm |
| 12:25.24 | thp | ShadowJK: you should try gPodder+Panucci on your tablet, though ;) http://thp.soup.io/post/27470816 |
| 12:26.34 | ShadowJK | I wonder if it supports the hw keys on audio adapters :) |
| 12:27.01 | ShadowJK | someone said they should work with n8x0 but the default player doesnt support it |
| 12:27.12 | thp | it supports the "mute" button on the included headset and uses it as play/pause button |
| 12:27.37 | thp | don't know about other adapters, would probably have to write support for them |
| 12:27.59 | ShadowJK | Oh I have one with play/pause,stop,next,prev,call,volume+,volume- buttons |
| 12:30.46 | *** join/#maemo kontuus (i=kontuus@xob.kapsi.fi) |
| 12:31.13 | *** part/#maemo kontuus (i=kontuus@xob.kapsi.fi) |
| 12:31.14 | ShadowJK | oh the s60 media player does one brilliant thing... it remembers position in podcasts.. if I accidentally skip to next instead of pause, and then go back, it resumes from where I left that file :) |
| 12:31.16 | thp | ShadowJK: start "dbus-monitor --system" in an xterm and see if the buttons generate any events |
| 12:31.39 | thp | ShadowJK: panucci does that too (and resuming was the initial reason why it was developed ;) |
| 12:31.43 | *** join/#maemo kontuus (i=kontuus@xob.kapsi.fi) |
| 12:32.47 | *** join/#maemo fiferboy (n=quassel@dhcp-0-13-10-77-bf-c5.cpe.mountaincable.net) |
| 12:33.44 | ShadowJK | nope it generates nothing :( |
| 12:35.47 | *** join/#maemo melmoth (n=melmoth@lec67-1-81-56-33-6.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:35.57 | ShadowJK | gpodder+panucci looks like the ideal solution on n900 :) |
| 12:38.50 | timeless_mbp | um |
| 12:38.55 | timeless_mbp | who maintains openssh in the fremantle repositories? |
| 12:38.59 | timeless_mbp | i just installed it on an n900 |
| 12:39.02 | timeless_mbp | and it can't ssh to itself |
| 12:39.22 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A17179.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:39.35 | timeless_mbp | it gives an error about unsupported options: GSSAPIAuthentication / GSSAPIDelegateCredentials |
| 12:39.54 | *** join/#maemo muep_ (n=muep@www.sse.fi) |
| 12:39.59 | Stskeeps | isnøt that just a warning |
| 12:40.05 | timeless_mbp | nope |
| 12:40.05 | ShadowJK | it does that on diablo too |
| 12:40.08 | timeless_mbp | well |
| 12:40.12 | timeless_mbp | i can't ssh to myself |
| 12:40.15 | ShadowJK | and is just a warning on diablo |
| 12:40.33 | timeless_mbp | do i have to reboot? |
| 12:40.33 | timeless_mbp | maybe the problem is that it doesn't start sshd |
| 12:40.42 | ShadowJK | does it time out? |
| 12:40.49 | ShadowJK | connection refused? |
| 12:40.54 | timeless_mbp | yeah refused |
| 12:40.57 | timeless_mbp | i think i just need to reboot |
| 12:40.59 | timeless_mbp | which is stupid |
| 12:41.05 | ShadowJK | not started then :) |
| 12:41.09 | ShadowJK | yeh. |
| 12:41.22 | timeless_mbp | could someone please poke someone? :) |
| 12:41.24 | lcuk | timeless_mbp, "sudo gainroot" then |
| 12:41.30 | lcuk | /usr/sbin/sshd |
| 12:41.35 | X-Fade | timeless_mbp: Walk over to Ed. |
| 12:41.35 | Macer | what's up with calendars using monday as the first day? |
| 12:41.36 | timeless_mbp | lcuk: for that, i had to install rootsh |
| 12:41.39 | Macer | is this some sort of christian thing? |
| 12:41.40 | Stskeeps | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:41.41 | lcuk | ahh k |
| 12:41.47 | lcuk | reboot then |
| 12:41.49 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: doesn't that require me to be root? |
| 12:41.50 | Macer | just to make sunday the 7th day? |
| 12:41.53 | Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: true, true |
| 12:42.08 | timeless_mbp | Macer: probably |
| 12:42.13 | ShadowJK | Macer: it might be a european thing maybe |
| 12:42.22 | Macer | ShadowJK: does europe do that? |
| 12:42.22 | timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: it is |
| 12:42.26 | timeless_mbp | but the question is why |
| 12:42.33 | Macer | kde and most of the maemo calendars do it without allowing you to change it |
| 12:42.33 | timeless_mbp | i think it probably was the church's fault |
| 12:42.39 | Macer | i figured they just changed it because of the church |
| 12:42.40 | timeless_mbp | trying to move sunday to be the seventh day |
| 12:42.40 | Macer | heh yeah |
| 12:42.43 | timeless_mbp | since it was their sabbath |
| 12:42.48 | timeless_mbp | stupid calendar revisionsts |
| 12:42.54 | Macer | someone probably asked "why is the sabath sunday when saturday is the 7th day?" |
| 12:43.18 | ShadowJK | well you could just as well ask why sunday is the first day in america, and why the names of days are named after Gods in nordic mythology in the first place |
| 12:43.21 | Macer | timeless_mbp: guess if you have enough clout you can get anything done |
| 12:43.30 | Macer | ShadowJK: haha yeah |
| 12:43.50 | Macer | ShadowJK: odd isn't it? :) |
| 12:44.04 | Macer | but i suppose every word is man made |
| 12:44.13 | Macer | a tree just as easily could have been called a horse |
| 12:44.22 | ShadowJK | like, why did america move sunday to first day of week, is that some antichrist thing? ;) |
| 12:44.23 | Macer | if enough people started calling trees horses |
| 12:44.39 | Macer | ShadowJK: i never knew it wasn't the first day of the week |
| 12:44.44 | lbt | you could even call colour color |
| 12:44.49 | ShadowJK | :) |
| 12:44.57 | Macer | we're oddly seperated from the world |
| 12:45.01 | lbt | phew |
| 12:45.14 | Macer | not because we can't see the world or we know it's there.. but because we are arrogant and just don't care |
| 12:45.17 | Macer | :) |
| 12:45.27 | roope | The centre of the world, or as you call is, the center. |
| 12:45.28 | roope | ;) |
| 12:45.37 | aSIMULAtor | usa #1 |
| 12:45.38 | Macer | like. i have no idea who the prime minister of france is (or president) |
| 12:45.53 | lbt | s/arrogant/ignorant/ |
| 12:45.54 | ShadowJK | and why is it called weekend when the days off are week end and week start ;D |
| 12:45.55 | roope | asimulator: People of Walmart dot com |
| 12:45.58 | Macer | i mean ask most americans who the leader of most nations are... |
| 12:46.02 | aSIMULAtor | roope: they be my ppl |
| 12:46.03 | Macer | and most will draw a blank :) |
| 12:46.05 | aSIMULAtor | my homies |
| 12:46.09 | aSIMULAtor | can u tell |
| 12:46.11 | Macer | ask someone in europe who the president of the US is |
| 12:46.14 | Macer | i bet most of them know |
| 12:46.20 | aSIMULAtor | when u see me, don't i look like them damn handsome buggrs |
| 12:46.25 | roope | Some very scary shit there. |
| 12:46.27 | ShadowJK | Macer: dug, Bill Gates |
| 12:46.31 | ShadowJK | duh* |
| 12:46.33 | ShadowJK | ;P |
| 12:46.33 | aSIMULAtor | i always laugh at the phrase southerners say of "git r done" |
| 12:46.36 | Macer | haha |
| 12:46.38 | Stskeeps | al gore? |
| 12:46.55 | ShadowJK | stskeeps: no he won the darwin award |
| 12:46.57 | Macer | aSIMULAtor: yeah. we kind of treat the southern people like iraqis treat the kurds |
| 12:47.01 | Macer | well.. treated :) |
| 12:47.03 | lbt | thinks "Sarah Palin" .... and realises it's Game Over |
| 12:47.05 | ShadowJK | or was it the nobel prizeÃ
;P |
| 12:47.16 | Macer | lbt: hahaha |
| 12:47.17 | aSIMULAtor | i'm from the coast of the US..so if they could sort of make the east and west a country |
| 12:47.24 | aSIMULAtor | then sort of get rid of the middle and south |
| 12:47.26 | aSIMULAtor | jk .P |
| 12:47.41 | Macer | then again. america is composed of 2 continents.. north and south. huge land masses |
| 12:47.41 | ShadowJK | yay for having å and ? on same key :) |
| 12:47.47 | lbt | aSIMULAtor: sounds good... make it a big ski-resort :) |
| 12:47.49 | Macer | yet .. people in the US are called "Americans" |
| 12:47.59 | roope | Yesyoucans. |
| 12:48.00 | Macer | and people in Canada are called "CAnadians" |
| 12:48.07 | Macer | never figured that one out either |
| 12:48.15 | aSIMULAtor | canuckians |
| 12:48.23 | ShadowJK | Macer: finns mostly call you yanks |
| 12:48.27 | ShadowJK | all of you ;p |
| 12:48.42 | RST38h | I am sure Mexicans would be offended |
| 12:48.42 | aSIMULAtor | god bless america |
| 12:48.50 | Macer | RST38h: me too |
| 12:49.02 | Macer | aSIMULAtor: yeah. so when a president says that |
| 12:49.02 | suihkulokki | thinks the east coast of states should join canada and the west coast mexico.. |
| 12:49.10 | RST38h | No no no |
| 12:49.11 | Macer | is he saying it about ALL of america? :) or just the US? |
| 12:49.15 | RST38h | Texas goes back to Mexico |
| 12:49.20 | ShadowJK | just the US |
| 12:49.25 | Macer | usually presidents will use the whole name |
| 12:49.26 | suihkulokki | I don't think mexicans want texas |
| 12:49.32 | Macer | "God Bless the United States of America" |
| 12:49.35 | aSIMULAtor | i think only the white anglo saxons |
| 12:49.36 | aSIMULAtor | :P |
| 12:49.39 | RST38h | suihkulokki: We will not give them choice on that |
| 12:49.41 | aSIMULAtor | since this new president doesn't really say it |
| 12:49.49 | lbt | Macer: You're presidents *know* the whole name? |
| 12:49.57 | aSIMULAtor | ok bibi ttyl |
| 12:49.58 | lbt | s/You're/Your/ |
| 12:50.00 | Macer | lbt: i don't think Bush did ;) |
| 12:50.11 | lbt | Reagan? |
| 12:50.13 | Macer | Regan too. he was half out of it |
| 12:50.15 | Macer | 'haha |
| 12:50.25 | RST38h | you are really cherrypicking presidents here |
| 12:50.28 | Macer | Nancy was running the country for the last 3 years of his presidency |
| 12:50.30 | lbt | not hard |
| 12:50.48 | RST38h | Pentagon had to hire a comics artist to prepare briefs for Reagan |
| 12:50.49 | lbt | 1st female president |
| 12:50.58 | Macer | Regan was what we needed for the cold war |
| 12:51.11 | Macer | a total nut job willing to press the red button :) |
| 12:51.14 | RST38h | Macer: You mean he was explosive? |
| 12:51.19 | Macer | RST38h: heh |
| 12:51.22 | Macer | RST38h: i suppose |
| 12:51.24 | Corsac | Mexico are United States too, btw |
| 12:51.27 | Macer | he was so out of it mentally |
| 12:51.42 | Macer | that i have no doubt if it came to it he wouldn't have cared about shooting off the ICBMs |
| 12:51.44 | RST38h | I mean, it's not like Soviets were ready the press the button, not since Khruschev |
| 12:51.45 | ShadowJK | what I think would be interesting would be to quiz the UK prime minister about the differences between the commonwealth, UK, and Great Britain... :P |
| 12:52.19 | Macer | RST38h: i suppose that is true too... i think chernobyl was the true fall of the USSR |
| 12:52.36 | RST38h | Macer: Again, Chernobyl hardly has anything to do with the fall of the USSR |
| 12:52.42 | Macer | RST38h: heh |
| 12:52.45 | Macer | if you say so |
| 12:52.51 | RST38h | Chernobyl was an accident, really. |
| 12:52.52 | ShadowJK | it bankrupted them to the point that they sold east germany to the west to get some cash |
| 12:52.56 | Macer | RST38h: oh i agree |
| 12:53.13 | Macer | the problem wasn't the accident. the problem was the resolve |
| 12:53.24 | RST38h | Being unable to produce competitive products, getting behind in technology, food shortages, industrial shortages |
| 12:53.32 | RST38h | THAT was the fall of USSR |
| 12:53.33 | Macer | they still had celebrations in radioactive areas in order to give the appearance of "nothing wrong" |
| 12:53.55 | Macer | RST38h: i'm sure social oppression had a little to do with it :) |
| 12:53.56 | RST38h | Macer: I have been pretty close to Chernobyl when it happened |
| 12:54.03 | Macer | although.... |
| 12:54.09 | Macer | China seems to be doing OK |
| 12:54.15 | Macer | maybe they just hide it better than the USSR did |
| 12:54.17 | RST38h | Macer: First of all, there was not any special drive to celebrate, it was normal May holiday |
| 12:54.28 | ShadowJK | chernobyl also showed everyone (inside and outside) how little control soviet leadership had, when their best source of information was western news channels |
| 12:54.54 | RST38h | Macer: Secondly, news did spread in a couple of days and measures (whatever measly measures could be taken) were taken |
| 12:55.26 | ShadowJK | The swedes noticed it first. They thought one of their own plants were leaking. :) |
| 12:55.27 | Macer | RST38h: well.. you know us arrogant americans.. always giving into the evil american government propaganda :) |
| 12:55.28 | RST38h | Macer: Iodine tablets, water sprinklers to keep the dust down, closure of markets, etc |
| 12:55.31 | lardman | anyone have a link to the Summit sponsored attendees hotel? |
| 12:55.41 | lardman | or even the email Quim sent about it? |
| 12:55.55 | Macer | RST38h: yeah. they also had a tiny "nothing is wrong" article in the newspaper about it |
| 12:55.58 | Macer | heh |
| 12:56.12 | Macer | what was the death total of chernobyl? |
| 12:56.15 | RST38h | Macer: What control? The leadership gets a blown up nuclear reactor on its hands, do you think US leadership would handle it much differently? |
| 12:56.20 | RST38h | Macer: Let me check |
| 12:56.36 | Macer | RST38h: well. there were a couple close calls but never an all out meltdown |
| 12:56.52 | Macer | and i guess you could call a "failed test" an accident |
| 12:56.52 | RST38h | 56 direct deaths |
| 12:57.09 | RST38h | Unknown number of followup deaths, mostly form increased cancer incidence |
| 12:57.17 | Macer | with russians using a skeleton night shift crew with less knowledge to run a test |
| 12:57.25 | Macer | causing it to go into complete meltdown |
| 12:57.34 | Macer | by bypassing safeties |
| 12:57.40 | Macer | and yanking all the rods out :) |
| 12:57.43 | ShadowJK | rst38h: gorbachev also got only the "nothing is wrong" report. It took days before news reached him through the walls of coverup. That's the difference |
| 12:57.49 | jeremiah_ | RST38h: Well, the US did handle it differently at Three Mile Island |
| 12:58.01 | RST38h | Macer: Ok. Do you somehow see the hand of soviet leadership in a bunch of laid back engineers believing that "nothing wrong can ever happen with this reactor"? |
| 12:58.02 | Macer | then again. that could also be capitalist propaganda :) |
| 12:58.21 | Macer | RST38h: but it wasn't an accident |
| 12:58.28 | VDVsx | lardman, http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Accommodation |
| 12:58.40 | Macer | yanking all the rods out of a nuclear reactor nullifies "accident" |
| 12:58.56 | *** join/#maemo tonikitoo (n=tonikito@201-75-42-34-ma.cpe.vivax.com.br) |
| 12:58.56 | RST38h | jeremiah: Should I quote for you? |
| 12:58.59 | lardman | VDVsx: I saw that, just wanted to double check it was the right name |
| 12:59.03 | suihkulokki | chernobyl was only relevant in the respect that people lost the last bits of trust on the goverment. the real failure of soviet union was economical failure. |
| 12:59.03 | lardman | but thanks |
| 12:59.12 | RST38h | jeremiah: The experts had said an accident like the one at Three Mile Island could not happen, and initially described it as a "minor malfunction". Twenty-eight hours after the accident began, Lt. Gov. William W. Scranton appeared at a news briefing to say that Metropolitan Edison, the plant's owner, had assured the state that "everything is under control". |
| 12:59.18 | Macer | suihkulokki: agreed |
| 12:59.22 | RST38h | jeremiah: Later that day, Scranton changed his statement, saying that the situation was "more complex than the company first led us to believe".[40] There were conflicting statements about radiation releases.[41] Schools were closed and residents were urged to stay indoors. Farmers were told to keep their animals under cover and on stored feed. |
| 12:59.35 | VDVsx | lardman, well -> "for the sponsored participants and the big bunch of people " |
| 12:59.36 | RST38h | jeremiah: How is that different from how Soviets handled it? =) |
| 12:59.48 | lardman | ah here: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=315595&postcount=16 |
| 12:59.59 | ShadowJK | in both cases there was lack of information flow |
| 13:00.02 | lardman | VDVsx: got to check before I bend the plastic ;) |
| 13:00.12 | RST38h | exactly |
| 13:00.31 | Macer | RST38h: did they pull all the rods out to run a test at three mile island? :) |
| 13:00.36 | RST38h | Because independntly on whether you are capitalist or socialist, when you fuck up, the same instincts kick in |
| 13:00.46 | Macer | panic? |
| 13:00.47 | ShadowJK | three mile island had a single phone line that was clogged by journalists so the people who built the plant coudlnt get through to the operators to tell them they're doing it wrong |
| 13:00.48 | Macer | heh |
| 13:01.02 | Macer | ShadowJK: hahahaha |
| 13:01.13 | Macer | you would think they would have a direct line there or something :) |
| 13:01.22 | ShadowJK | and in chernobyl case every step of the information flow was trained to claim normality |
| 13:01.39 | RST38h | Shadow: not really. not after first 2-4 days |
| 13:01.45 | ShadowJK | Macer: yeah they thought that too, afterwards :P |
| 13:02.13 | ShadowJK | oh that swedish plant that lost power was funny too |
| 13:02.46 | ShadowJK | tripple-redundant UPS... all 3 failed in identical way. |
| 13:02.47 | suihkulokki | obviously the only telephone line to chernobyl couldn't be clogged since journalists in soviet union didn't have phones :P |
| 13:02.47 | Macer | http://www.davistownmuseum.org/cbm/Rad7.html |
| 13:03.01 | Macer | suihkulokki: or rights :) |
| 13:03.04 | lardman | VDVsx: that's worrying, Quim's Talk post points to a different hotel to the one on the wiki.... |
| 13:03.15 | Macer | if they wrote bad things about chernobyl they'd probably have been shot in a basement |
| 13:03.39 | suihkulokki | or sent to a nice holiday in siberian winter |
| 13:04.51 | ShadowJK | did you see the videos from when they were using remote controlled robotd to clean up the radioactive roof? the robots would die one by one from radiation, and they'd send more to shove the dead ones off the roof and maybe throw another bit of scrap off the roof too until they ran out of robots |
| 13:05.21 | ShadowJK | and started giving peope "Hero of the fstherland" medals for going up there and throwing one piece of scrap off the roof :) |
| 13:05.42 | VDVsx | lardman, :(. probably some confusion -> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=310369&postcount=1 |
| 13:06.13 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@nat/ibm/x-kojyvqpnykmyqwpj) |
| 13:06.17 | Macer | ShadowJK: yeah |
| 13:06.25 | Macer | then they sent the poor russian bastards up there |
| 13:06.28 | Macer | to do it by hand |
| 13:06.28 | Corsac | ShadowJK: until they ran out of people |
| 13:06.37 | lardman | VDVsx: have just emailed the council, needs to be sorted asap so people don't end up in the wrong place! |
| 13:06.42 | ShadowJK | they imported lots :) |
| 13:06.54 | Macer | you could see the radiation messing up the film |
| 13:07.14 | Macer | there was radioactive snow on the film haha.. it was amazing |
| 13:07.30 | Macer | i'd love to have seen a live feed of the lava flow underneath the building |
| 13:07.38 | Macer | i'm sure it was an amazing sight |
| 13:08.12 | Macer | it blew the top off the building which was a huge thick concrete dome |
| 13:09.16 | lardman | have you seen the video taken with an R/C tank from underneath? |
| 13:10.17 | lardman | you've probably already mentioned that bit of footage, /me scrolls up |
| 13:10.41 | VDVsx | lardman, should be the "ibis center", the other one is 4.1 km from the venue :( |
| 13:11.01 | lardman | looks like Ibis Centre is 2.6km still |
| 13:11.02 | lardman | ok |
| 13:11.12 | VDVsx | gonna change |
| 13:11.44 | lardman | ok |
| 13:11.47 | lardman | who added the info? |
| 13:11.56 | lardman | I can't work out where to find the diffs any more |
| 13:12.10 | VDVsx | lardman, I added the info in front of the link :( |
| 13:12.17 | VDVsx | the link was already there |
| 13:12.29 | lardman | ok, np, just wondering |
| 13:12.34 | Macer | At 1:24, 20 seconds after the SCRAM was ordered, the first steam explosion took place. It blew the 2,000 ton lid off of the reactor, |
| 13:12.38 | Macer | lardman: yeah |
| 13:12.48 | Macer | i saw the pics of the solidified lava |
| 13:12.55 | lardman | very pretty iirc |
| 13:13.04 | Macer | amazing :) i wonder what that stuff looked like when it was lava |
| 13:13.11 | Macer | 2000 tons |
| 13:13.20 | Macer | blew it up like it was paper |
| 13:13.40 | Macer | i still find it odd that the world still runs off steam |
| 13:13.41 | Macer | haha |
| 13:13.54 | Macer | you would think there would have been a better way found to accelerate electrons |
| 13:14.13 | Macer | we are using like... 200 yr old tech for power still? |
| 13:14.32 | glass | not 200 |
| 13:14.37 | lcuk | im still waiting for people to split the beer atom, for real. |
| 13:14.45 | Macer | glass, i'm still counting steam engines ;) |
| 13:15.09 | Macer | they didn't have steam locomotives in the 1800s? |
| 13:15.18 | glass | they did |
| 13:15.28 | glass | but i was thinking of generators/attached tech |
| 13:15.38 | Macer | glass: i was thinking of power in general |
| 13:15.51 | Macer | steam! |
| 13:15.56 | glass | water has been harnessed to cycling action for thousands of years now |
| 13:16.00 | Macer | haha... wtf. we can't figure out something better than steam? |
| 13:16.03 | Macer | i guess ice |
| 13:16.13 | Macer | but they aren't as efficient as boiled water i suppose |
| 13:16.34 | Macer | glass: then i stand corrected |
| 13:16.35 | glass | it's what you do with the power that matters anyhow |
| 13:16.56 | glass | Macer: romans had pretty "industrialised" places, mega milling centers |
| 13:16.57 | lardman | sodium |
| 13:16.58 | Macer | glass: i suppose, but i mean. aren't there other ways to shoot out electrons? |
| 13:17.18 | Macer | i mean is the steam powered turbine the only way? |
| 13:17.20 | lardman | but slightly dangerous when it leaks |
| 13:17.35 | *** join/#maemo melmoth (n=melmoth@lec67-1-81-56-33-6.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:17.48 | lardman | you need something with two phases at about the right temperature |
| 13:18.04 | glass | Macer: actually, hmm, you should watch this one documentary about ancient tech. like a water powered vending machine from greek(i think) |
| 13:18.12 | VDVsx | lardman, done, your persistence avoided a 'big' problem ;) |
| 13:18.15 | Macer | i suppose solar panels... but to power anything realistic you need constant sunlight and panels that take up a square mile |
| 13:18.22 | lardman | VDVsx: cool, np |
| 13:18.28 | Macer | to power a house the size of a car |
| 13:18.30 | glass | peltier and such elements still suck too much i suppose |
| 13:19.14 | glass | Macer: theres alternate aproach to solar energy thats being used/rolled out, in it basically a looong mirror(array of them) and a black tube that the mirror concentrates it on |
| 13:19.33 | glass | but it uses a turbine i suppose :p |
| 13:19.47 | Macer | glass: yeah but... if there is no sun then what? :) |
| 13:19.50 | lcuk | nokia engineers crawl through the black tube, and those that reach the other end become maemo. |
| 13:19.53 | Macer | huge batteries underneath the home? |
| 13:19.59 | Macer | lcuk: haha |
| 13:20.12 | glass | Macer: then you deposit the energy artificial lakes, or whatever |
| 13:20.54 | Macer | i'm just saying. the world still runs off steam ;) |
| 13:21.06 | Macer | of all things. all the advancements in the world.. and we still use steam for almost everything we do in our daily lives |
| 13:21.19 | lcuk | there is nothing wrong with steam. |
| 13:21.35 | RST38h | glass: water powered vending machine?!? URL! |
| 13:21.57 | Macer | lcuk: if you say so |
| 13:21.58 | lcuk | lol, its one of your scp articles probably |
| 13:22.18 | glass | RST38h: http://www.smith.edu/hsc/museum/ancient_inventions/hsc18b.htm theres one url. i think it was an episode of modern marvels that i caught it on |
| 13:22.32 | Macer | i just figured a steam/turbine method would be replaced by now |
| 13:22.33 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@public-wlan.oe3.sil.at) |
| 13:22.44 | glass | RST38h: actually that one was slightly different, it had a soap ball |
| 13:22.46 | lcuk | Macer, its the simplest most understood method of energy transfer. |
| 13:23.03 | glass | i think fist is more understood |
| 13:23.09 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: water is probably older. |
| 13:23.18 | lcuk | even cavemen could boil water - of course using chemical reactions would be similar, but it wouldnt be sustainable |
| 13:23.24 | lcuk | and the alternative is nuclear |
| 13:23.27 | RST38h | glass: holy shit |
| 13:23.41 | glass | RST38h: persians had lots of fancy shit too quite early |
| 13:23.54 | RST38h | lcuk: nuclear reactors use steam for heat transfer |
| 13:23.57 | lcuk | bows and frilly bits? |
| 13:23.57 | maswan | The reason for steam turbines is that most energy sources make heat. |
| 13:24.26 | SpeedEvil | And steam turbines - done well - can convert quite a lot of that heat into energy. |
| 13:24.34 | lcuk | i thought bebblebeds didnt |
| 13:24.38 | MaceN8x0 | maswan, dont all energy sources make heat? |
| 13:24.39 | lcuk | you are of course right |
| 13:24.40 | *** join/#maemo barisione (n=barision@jalfrezi.collabora.co.uk) |
| 13:25.02 | *** join/#maemo jnettlet (n=jnettlet@216-19-186-197.dyn.novuscom.net) |
| 13:25.03 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: not directly - but the secondary coolant loop often involves steam - heated by the gas flowing throught the pebblebed. |
| 13:25.12 | RST38h | BTW, if you want really scare nuclear accident footage, check out the Japanese accident where primary heat transfer loop breached |
| 13:25.25 | maswan | MaceN8x0: Well, some only as a side effect. Hydroelectric generators don't really rely on heat, other than very indirectly. |
| 13:25.30 | SpeedEvil | Basically as it's a _hell_ of a lot safer to have your turbines not running on radioactive shit :) |
| 13:25.45 | MaceN8x0 | RST38h, where? |
| 13:26.07 | SpeedEvil | suffered a radioactive accident a couple of weeks ago in my trousers. |
| 13:26.07 | RST38h | The Japanese used sodium for the heat transfer, so you can imagine - super heated sodium vapor, humid air, etc |
| 13:26.14 | RST38h | A moment |
| 13:26.18 | MaceN8x0 | SpeedEvil, until we run out of coal? |
| 13:26.21 | SpeedEvil | Unfortunately, nothing has grown vastly and turned green. |
| 13:26.33 | RST38h | Speed: That penis enlargement gadget did not quite work? =) |
| 13:26.37 | SpeedEvil | (A tritium glowing keychain - somehow it lost its gas) |
| 13:26.54 | RST38h | macer: Enjoy: http://wikileaks.org/wiki/The_Monju_nuclear_reactor_leak |
| 13:27.32 | RST38h | macer: Also read on the government handling of the accident, just to give you some perspective =) |
| 13:28.00 | MaceN8x0 | hahaha |
| 13:28.01 | suihkulokki | would like to buy one these: http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news-toshiba-micro-nuclear-12.17b.html |
| 13:28.16 | MaceN8x0 | godzilla!!! |
| 13:28.16 | lcuk | thanks SpeedEvil |
| 13:28.29 | SpeedEvil | suihkulokki: _complete_ bullshit. |
| 13:29.04 | SpeedEvil | suihkulokki: Yes - it technically can be built. _ABSOLUTELY_ no way your small groups can get permission to install a 100Kw reactor. |
| 13:29.10 | jaska | haha |
| 13:29.12 | jaska | Li-6 |
| 13:29.20 | MaceN8x0 | Wikileaks is overloaded by global interest |
| 13:29.22 | MaceN8x0 | hah |
| 13:29.28 | jaska | Lithium-6 Deuteride :D |
| 13:29.56 | SpeedEvil | LiD is actually not a proliferation concern somuch. |
| 13:30.14 | SpeedEvil | You need the fissile materials - and a _hell_ of a lot of engineering to make it go off. |
| 13:30.32 | jaska | the engineering part is probably harder for that type of weapon |
| 13:30.53 | MaceN8x0 | wonder if the maemo4 media player can do wmv |
| 13:31.08 | SpeedEvil | Unless of course you can get the pulse of neutrons for ignition from: http://www.physorg.com/news168623833.html - somehow |
| 13:31.18 | lcuk | MaceN8x0, the sub version works |
| 13:31.18 | SpeedEvil | (which seems impractical) |
| 13:32.03 | *** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 13:33.14 | MaceN8x0 | lcuk, the one that told me i have an old flash? |
| 13:33.18 | MaceN8x0 | :) |
| 13:33.43 | lardman | right I've booked at the Ibis Central then, ~500 euros for 4 nights |
| 13:34.07 | lopz | hi |
| 13:34.07 | lardman | IBIS AMSTERDAM CENTRE HOTEL to be exact |
| 13:35.18 | *** join/#maemo albanc (n=alban@jalfrezi.collabora.co.uk) |
| 13:35.35 | VDVsx | lardman, I'm afraid that someone already booked for the other one :( |
| 13:35.59 | lardman | yeah I saw that, he may be able to shift his booking if he explains as it is the same hotel chain |
| 13:36.41 | VDVsx | but someone have to ping the guy |
| 13:36.47 | lardman | yes indeed |
| 13:37.10 | lardman | it might be worth pinging the list just in case other people have also booked in the wrong place |
| 13:37.56 | VDVsx | is Uwe Koch here ? or someone knows him ? |
| 13:37.58 | *** join/#maemo bulfaiter (n=simon@188.4.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 13:38.07 | Captain_Picard | suihkulokki: i want one of those! |
| 13:38.12 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 13:38.16 | Captain_Picard | Mini Nuclear Reactor at homr! |
| 13:38.16 | MaceN8x0 | damn |
| 13:38.17 | Captain_Picard | home |
| 13:38.18 | Captain_Picard | sweet |
| 13:38.27 | MaceN8x0 | talk about a crap connection |
| 13:38.51 | MaceN8x0 | i have it paused waiting to see the sodium leak in engrish |
| 13:39.40 | RST38h | Captain_Picard,suihkulokki: http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/radscout.html |
| 13:41.14 | lcuk | RST38h, that guy is an hero |
| 13:41.22 | RST38h | lcuk: Absolutely |
| 13:41.29 | lardman | VDVsx: I can't see an email for that user, did you spot one? |
| 13:41.40 | RST38h | lcuk: And he keeps busy too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn (see 2007 Arrest) |
| 13:41.45 | VDVsx | lardman, nop |
| 13:41.47 | lcuk | nods |
| 13:42.05 | VDVsx | lardman, but X-Fade can help us |
| 13:42.13 | lardman | yep |
| 13:42.17 | lardman | X-Fade: ping |
| 13:42.19 | lardman | :) |
| 13:42.36 | lardman | VDVsx: do you want to post a message to the list & Talk thread pointing out the change? |
| 13:42.49 | VDVsx | yes will do it |
| 13:42.59 | *** join/#maemo Meiz_n810 (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 13:43.03 | Macer | wow. is sodium like... that volatile? |
| 13:43.19 | Macer | i didn't know sodium was so serious |
| 13:43.24 | SpeedEvil | If it touches water - yes |
| 13:43.25 | lardman | VDVsx: thanks |
| 13:43.50 | lcuk | macer, on an industrial scale anything can be dangerous, but yeah sodium has its fair share of real issues |
| 13:43.55 | lardman | Macer: obviously why the Russians built into a sub nuclear reactor :) |
| 13:44.08 | Macer | those space suits didn't help? |
| 13:44.11 | *** join/#maemo Cwiiis (n=cwiiis@158.43.2.102) |
| 13:44.16 | lcuk | drops 10 tonne of industrial feathers on macer |
| 13:44.23 | Macer | haha |
| 13:44.27 | Macer | point taken |
| 13:45.48 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) |
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| 13:48.56 | *** join/#maemo amit_usual (n=Amit@59.178.48.48) |
| 13:50.59 | VDVsx | lardman, can you acess TMO ? |
| 13:51.26 | MaceN8x0 | hm |
| 13:51.35 | MaceN8x0 | why did they run out? |
| 13:52.43 | lardman | VDVsx: yep |
| 13:53.29 | VDVsx | lardman, I can't :(, strange |
| 13:53.53 | VDVsx | neither google, wtf |
| 13:54.30 | *** join/#maemo olejorgenb (i=bronner@gaupe.stud.ntnu.no) |
| 13:55.09 | *** part/#maemo olejorgenb (i=bronner@gaupe.stud.ntnu.no) |
| 13:57.29 | VDVsx | lardman, it seems that I can't acess overseas servers atm, can't post the messages now :( |
| 13:58.34 | *** join/#maemo victorpoluceno (n=Victor@201-67-133-36.bnut3700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 14:02.13 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=valerio@bl6-237-250.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 14:02.31 | lardman | no rush don't worry |
| 14:02.53 | lardman | do you know which thread it was supposed to be posted to? I can do it for you if you want |
| 14:04.21 | VDVsx | in the same thread, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=315595&postcount=16 |
| 14:04.39 | dneary | VDVsx: Ping? |
| 14:04.48 | VDVsx | dneary, pong |
| 14:04.52 | dneary | You changed the hotel that the Ibis link is pointing to in the wiki |
| 14:04.58 | dneary | Was that deliberate? |
| 14:05.06 | Macer | RST38h: was expecing more mayhem |
| 14:05.07 | Macer | heh |
| 14:05.10 | Macer | that's the best one you got? |
| 14:05.12 | VDVsx | dneary, yes |
| 14:05.24 | dneary | Amsterdam West still has rooms at 80 euros a night, and Amsterdam Centrum's 120 |
| 14:05.26 | lardman | it didn't agree with the one Quim pointed out |
| 14:05.30 | RST38h | Macer: Well, it happened in the enclosed space, fortunately |
| 14:05.44 | dneary | So which one are people actually staying in? |
| 14:05.46 | lardman | might be worth putting it back on, but not saying that it's the main one |
| 14:05.50 | lardman | Centre |
| 14:05.50 | VDVsx | dneary, center |
| 14:06.01 | dneary | That's where people with travel funding have been put? |
| 14:06.09 | VDVsx | yes |
| 14:06.18 | lardman | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=315595&postcount=16 |
| 14:06.50 | dneary | Looks like some people (looking at the rates mentioned on the wiki page) booked the non-refundable rate on the internet for the cheaper one, though. |
| 14:07.07 | VDVsx | :( |
| 14:07.21 | VDVsx | is a bit more far from the venue |
| 14:07.26 | VDVsx | *it's |
| 14:07.43 | lardman | the hotel may be happy to move them, it's within the same chain, and the price will only go up |
| 14:07.50 | lardman | dunno |
| 14:08.23 | VDVsx | arrrg, stupid ISP :( |
| 14:09.44 | Macer | http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/mayak-nuclear-disaster280907 |
| 14:09.56 | Macer | wow |
| 14:10.00 | Macer | never knew about that one |
| 14:10.25 | RST38h | There is more than one you have never known about... |
| 14:11.24 | lardman | dneary: I was going to email the community list and add a post to the accommodation thread on TMO to point out the confusion |
| 14:11.41 | lardman | or VDVsx was, but can't access the sites, so I will] |
| 14:11.54 | dneary | I'm confused now. I think I'll find out where Quim is staying & book in there |
| 14:12.06 | lardman | we need to make it clear |
| 14:12.16 | lardman | I just booked mine and spotted the difference so started asking |
| 14:12.22 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (n=wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 14:12.43 | *** join/#maemo hexa-- (n=bernd@p4FDC66D0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:12.49 | hexa- | hey |
| 14:12.52 | VDVsx | lardman, can only acess european servers atm, it seems :( |
| 14:13.04 | lardman | is Maemo not European? |
| 14:13.07 | hexa- | is there a way to install maemo in like virtualboxà |
| 14:14.03 | VDVsx | lardman, yes, tmo no |
| 14:14.32 | lardman | ah, still a redirect from itt |
| 14:14.51 | VDVsx | lardman, I can edit the wiki, if needed |
| 14:15.17 | lardman | np, I'll post something |
| 14:15.22 | amit_usual | hexa: yes their is a maemo vmware project http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ |
| 14:15.35 | hexa- | amit_usual thanks alot |
| 14:16.00 | amit_usual | you can run the same files with virtualbox as well |
| 14:16.32 | amit_usual | hexa-: but you do not have maemo5 as yet you will only get diablo |
| 14:16.32 | RST38h | Or just install latest Ubuntu and use it |
| 14:16.53 | hexa- | hm i do have latest ubuntu |
| 14:17.04 | hexa- | how would tht work? |
| 14:18.30 | *** join/#maemo radic (n=radic@90.187.71.25) |
| 14:20.50 | lcuk | can i run mobile internet and wifi at the same time |
| 14:21.26 | lcuk | so i can adhoc locally for my laptop but still get out onto the wide interent |
| 14:24.08 | Jaffa | Hmm, anyone good at app naming? |
| 14:24.17 | lardman | VDVsx, dneary: I've added a post to the Summit accommodation TMO thread and just sent an email to the maemo-community list, saying that the wiki was wrong |
| 14:24.36 | VDVsx | lardman, thanks;) |
| 14:24.57 | lcuk | Jaffa, not me |
| 14:25.00 | lcuk | i keep licking things |
| 14:25.27 | RST38h | n900? |
| 14:27.19 | *** join/#maemo n6pfk (n=mike@96.238.186.191) |
| 14:34.55 | dneary | lardman: Just booking Ibis Central |
| 14:35.00 | dneary | Hope you're not lying to me ;) |
| 14:36.10 | mgedmin | booking? time to book! |
| 14:36.25 | mgedmin | hm, I don't read TMO nor maemo-community ... |
| 14:36.28 | mgedmin | should |
| 14:36.47 | lardman | dneary: nope, just cost me >500 euros |
| 14:36.53 | lardman | so I hope I can claim a bit back |
| 14:38.20 | lardman | mgedmin: community is relatively high brow |
| 14:38.32 | mgedmin | does that mean low traffic? |
| 14:38.46 | lardman | no it means the traffic is useful |
| 14:38.49 | lardman | intelligent |
| 14:39.09 | *** join/#maemo tkharju (n=tkharju@84-253-203-192.satp.customers.dnainternet.fi) |
| 14:39.21 | lardman | I don't think there;s that much either, but check the archives to be sure |
| 14:42.16 | *** join/#maemo GeneralAntilles (n=GeneralA@c-98-230-62-25.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 14:42.23 | Stskeeps | wb GeneralAntilles |
| 14:43.43 | lardman | hey GeneralAntilles |
| 14:44.25 | mgedmin | I don't suppose the Ibis has free wifi? |
| 14:44.47 | lardman | no idea, didn't check I'm afraid |
| 14:45.29 | lardman | if not there's bound to be a cafe nearby that does, assuming the cafes over there are as enlightened as they are in the UK/US |
| 14:45.42 | lardman | prob more so :) |
| 14:46.04 | *** join/#maemo victorpoluceno (n=Victor@189.75.45.69) |
| 14:46.08 | mgedmin | whoa, 120 eur/night |
| 14:46.42 | lardman | pretty standard for a city isn't it? |
| 14:47.23 | RST38h | Multiply by 1.43 |
| 14:47.37 | mgedmin | dunno, I expected 70--80 EUR |
| 14:48.14 | RST38h | $170/nigh |
| 14:48.17 | lardman | Euro -> £ exchange rate is crap atm, breakfast for £13pp was what shocked me |
| 14:48.31 | RST38h | In just 4 nights, you would be able to afford an N900 |
| 14:48.31 | mgedmin | re-checks the dates |
| 14:48.44 | mgedmin | no, it's october, not september |
| 14:50.30 | lardman | otherwise it would start tomorrow ;) |
| 14:51.35 | mgedmin | I thought when I went back to correct the number of days the form might've reset to defaults |
| 14:53.25 | GeneralAntilles | Howdy-ho. |
| 14:55.25 | *** join/#maemo bulfaiter (n=simon@24.6.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
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| 15:00.10 | VDVsx | lardman, saw your posts ;), I'm back :P |
| 15:01.04 | Jaffa | lo GeneralAntilles |
| 15:01.05 | lardman | cool |
| 15:01.14 | lardman | hi Jaffa |
| 15:03.16 | Jaffa | needs an app name for something which will enrich your contacts/address book with information from elsewhere |
| 15:03.40 | Jaffa | Some kind of mythical information-collecting beast? Hydra's are multi-headed, of course; so that might work. |
| 15:03.45 | *** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-darl2-0-0-cust537.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 15:03.51 | lardman | does it have hooks? |
| 15:05.18 | lardman | or claws :) |
| 15:06.00 | Stskeeps | VDVsx: any good clues on how to avoid doing hidd --connect constantly? :P media centre scenario |
| 15:06.30 | mgedmin | discovers that there are apparently no direct flights from vilnius to amsterdam! |
| 15:06.55 | VDVsx | Stskeeps, the hidd device should be able to auto-connect if trusted, you only need to do it one time |
| 15:07.08 | Stskeeps | hm, ok |
| 15:07.15 | Stskeeps | wonders what goes wrong in his setup then |
| 15:07.19 | VDVsx | however there's a bug in ubuntu 9.04 |
| 15:07.25 | Stskeeps | ah :P |
| 15:07.38 | VDVsx | Stskeeps, 1 sec |
| 15:08.38 | VDVsx | Stskeeps, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=300336&postcount=7 |
| 15:09.38 | mgedmin | hates travelling |
| 15:11.08 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=slonopot@83.149.9.242) |
| 15:12.16 | Stskeeps | VDVsx: thanks |
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| 16:01.34 | *** join/#maemo SamPieter (n=SamPiete@201.216.64.205) |
| 16:01.51 | SamPieter | hello all |
| 16:02.51 | SamPieter | I'd like to sync contact, calendar, etc. from my osX laptop to my N810 |
| 16:02.58 | SamPieter | What would you recommend? |
| 16:05.21 | bulfaiter | SamPieter: I tried, and the best I got was a two way sync. osX to scheduleworld/funambol, and n8x0 to scheduleworld/funambol |
| 16:05.31 | bulfaiter | I used syncEvolution http://syncevolution.org/ |
| 16:05.42 | bulfaiter | and, to display the PIM data |
| 16:05.48 | jaksu | Hi, does anyone know that is there javame support in n900 |
| 16:05.50 | bulfaiter | the pimlico suite |
| 16:05.59 | bulfaiter | in the nokia |
| 16:06.19 | SamPieter | bulfaiter: and are you happy with it? |
| 16:06.47 | bulfaiter | well: even if it was the best solution I got, it was far from perfect |
| 16:07.00 | bulfaiter | the contacts work fairly well |
| 16:07.04 | SamPieter | would upsyncing from osX to google, and then from google to n810 work? have you tried that? |
| 16:07.26 | bulfaiter | at the time I tried |
| 16:07.31 | bulfaiter | there was no support |
| 16:07.38 | bulfaiter | but syncevolution is improving a lot |
| 16:07.44 | msh_ | SamPieter: which calendar are you using? |
| 16:07.49 | bulfaiter | as it's the chosen way to sync moblin platform |
| 16:08.17 | SamPieter | msh_: I am usung iCal on my OSX and have not chosen one for my n810 |
| 16:08.29 | msh_ | *nod* |
| 16:08.31 | SamPieter | usung? using |
| 16:10.27 | bulfaiter | http://maemo.org/community/maemo-users/gpe_and_pimlico/ <- this list thread |
| 16:10.36 | bulfaiter | talks about gpe and pimlico |
| 16:10.46 | bulfaiter | take a look at it :) |
| 16:10.54 | SamPieter | ok |
| 16:11.26 | SamPieter | so, direct syncing from OSX to N810 is out of the question? |
| 16:11.27 | *** join/#maemo krutt (n=mk@p4FC33639.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:11.34 | bulfaiter | as far as I know, it is |
| 16:11.35 | bulfaiter | :S |
| 16:11.48 | bulfaiter | if talking about contacts/calendar |
| 16:11.58 | bulfaiter | I think there's a 3d party app |
| 16:12.06 | bulfaiter | who can sync multimedia |
| 16:12.12 | bulfaiter | using some xml for configuration |
| 16:12.21 | bulfaiter | and allowing you to chose from iphoto and itunes |
| 16:12.32 | SamPieter | hmm |
| 16:12.44 | bulfaiter | do you want me to look betwee my links? |
| 16:12.46 | bulfaiter | :P |
| 16:12.49 | SamPieter | You know the 'todo' app Things, for OSX? |
| 16:12.54 | bulfaiter | no |
| 16:13.07 | SamPieter | ah bunner |
| 16:13.11 | SamPieter | bummer |
| 16:13.43 | andre__ | i think in maemo.org Bugzilla i am going to rename "Virtual keyboard" to "Virtual keyboard (halfscreen)" and "Finger keyboard" to "Virtual keyboard (fullscreen)", as Nokia calls the Finger keyboard "Virtual keyboard" in Fremantle. Comments? |
| 16:13.58 | SamPieter | I'll take a gander at the gpe,pimloci & syncevolution URL's |
| 16:14.45 | bulfaiter | ok :) |
| 16:14.58 | SamPieter | andre__: or virtual keyboard (halfscreen) and virtual keyboard (for finger usage) |
| 16:15.09 | andre__ | too long... :-) |
| 16:15.25 | SamPieter | virt.keyb 4 fingars |
| 16:15.32 | SamPieter | better? |
| 16:15.38 | javispedro | virtual keyboard (finger), virtual keyboard (stylus) :P |
| 16:15.40 | SamPieter | ;o) |
| 16:15.54 | SamPieter | I like that |
| 16:15.55 | andre__ | well, i try to find the best terms for average users here... |
| 16:16.05 | javispedro | virtual keyboard (thumb) ;) |
| 16:16.07 | andre__ | and i think halfscreen and fullscreen should even work for normal people. at least i hope so :-P |
| 16:16.17 | qwerty12_N810 | I-don't-know-what-to-call-it keyboard :) |
| 16:16.18 | SamPieter | hmm |
| 16:16.26 | bulfaiter | SamPieter: there's another link you should check: http://maemo.org/community/maemo-users/gmail_contacts_import/ |
| 16:16.28 | SamPieter | I like the finger/thumb name |
| 16:16.29 | andre__ | i also use the virtual keyboard with my fingers. as i have fingernails. :-P |
| 16:16.42 | javispedro | the stylus one? |
| 16:16.45 | javispedro | wow. |
| 16:16.47 | javispedro | ;) |
| 16:16.47 | andre__ | yes |
| 16:16.49 | SamPieter | bulfaiter: got it! |
| 16:16.51 | andre__ | well, i think that halfscreen/fullscreen differentiation is fail-safe |
| 16:17.08 | andre__ | you don't convince me with the argument that something else sounds cooler ;-)) |
| 16:17.18 | SamPieter | but it does not tell you which one you can use with what input 'tool' |
| 16:17.26 | SamPieter | stylus/thumb(finger) does that |
| 16:17.48 | javispedro | andre__, for a 770 user, stylus/finger was the official marketing iirc |
| 16:17.54 | javispedro | for a newbie user... i wouldn't say |
| 16:18.15 | andre__ | javispedro, argh |
| 16:18.24 | andre__ | i hate it when Nokia changes names every release :-/ |
| 16:18.25 | javispedro | you asked :) |
| 16:18.34 | andre__ | sure, cause i want feedback :) |
| 16:18.55 | andre__ | but in Fremantle the settings call it "Virtual keyboard" :-/ |
| 16:19.07 | andre__ | which is known as Finger keyboard to us... |
| 16:19.14 | javispedro | "Virtual keyboard" and "Geek keyboard" |
| 16:19.40 | andre__ | Done in Bugzilla. one more fremantle blocker off my list... |
| 16:19.44 | javispedro | "Virtual keyboard" and "Stylus keyboard" :) |
| 16:19.51 | javispedro | heh |
| 16:20.12 | lcuk | wants voice print identification |
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| 16:21.33 | SpeedEvil | iris recognition should be plausible |
| 16:22.07 | lcuk | is that a confirmation of macro zooming on n900? |
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| 16:22.18 | javispedro | "Welcome to the N900. Please put on front of the back camera to begin identification." |
| 16:22.38 | lcuk | it should simply be "welcome to the n900, smile" |
| 16:23.01 | javispedro | Then proceed to identify the user's iris from the VGA photo. |
| 16:23.07 | Jaffa | lcuk: People will when they start playing with them! |
| 16:23.18 | lcuk | +1000 internets |
| 16:23.33 | timeless_mbp | andre__: *sigh* |
| 16:23.42 | andre__ | timeless_mbp, true that. |
| 16:23.49 | timeless_mbp | has anyone here used backup in the n810 to restore applications? |
| 16:24.09 | timeless_mbp | I have an app "Tennix 2009 World Tennis Championship Tour" |
| 16:24.20 | timeless_mbp | and it's doing serious damage to HAM |
| 16:25.37 | thp | timeless_mbp: (that's my app/package) - what's wrong with it? |
| 16:25.48 | timeless_mbp | thp: the name is way too wide |
| 16:25.58 | timeless_mbp | HAM has a number of places where it composes strings |
| 16:26.01 | timeless_mbp | "Installing %s" |
| 16:26.07 | timeless_mbp | "%s <size>" |
| 16:26.33 | thp | oh :( i thought "serious" damage.. |
| 16:26.36 | timeless_mbp | well |
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| 16:26.45 | timeless_mbp | i can't use backup's restore feature properly |
| 16:26.53 | timeless_mbp | it told me i had 100mb of apps to restore |
| 16:26.57 | timeless_mbp | but i can't see which apps are big |
| 16:26.59 | timeless_mbp | because of this |
| 16:27.23 | thp | maybe the column with the name should have its ellipsize property set correctly? |
| 16:27.33 | timeless_mbp | yeah, well |
| 16:27.34 | *** join/#maemo wipeout140 (i=56ac2476@gateway/web/freenode/x-bbyxqhewoekxdcph) |
| 16:27.41 | timeless_mbp | that assumes the people designing this stuff are ... |
| 16:27.54 | timeless_mbp | please don't make such unreasonable assumptions/requirements, it's too late :( |
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| 16:28.45 | thp | i could re-upload the package with a shorter name..but it would only be a workaround for now |
| 16:28.51 | timeless_mbp | nods |
| 16:29.04 | timeless_mbp | someone will file a bug, but the odds of it being fixed for release are nill |
| 16:29.38 | thp | is that in diablo or fremantle or both? |
| 16:29.45 | timeless_mbp | dunno |
| 16:29.50 | timeless_mbp | i'd have to find a diablo device |
| 16:29.56 | timeless_mbp | there's one somewhere on this desk |
| 16:30.55 | Stskeeps | i wonder if diablo could run on rx-51 |
| 16:31.39 | qwerty12_N810 | And why would someone wish to do that? Nostalgia? Can't see it being useful for much else :) |
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| 16:32.47 | andre__ | i had some problems to successfully run windows 1.0 on this laptop |
| 16:33.00 | Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: speedy speedy diablo ;p |
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| 16:33.58 | qwerty12_N810 | gives andre__ a copy of Win 3.1 and Bob |
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| 16:34.11 | qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: Not compelling enough, sorry ;) |
| 16:34.17 | Stskeeps | true, true |
| 16:34.22 | luke-jr | Stskeeps: not necessarily |
| 16:34.29 | andre__ | qwerty12_N810, way too new for me, sorry |
| 16:34.30 | luke-jr | Diablo doesn't take advantage of the 3D accel |
| 16:34.53 | qwerty12_N810 | andre__: but it's Bob! |
| 16:35.16 | andre__ | qwerty12_N810, without Pamela my life isn't complete. I don't want just Bob! |
| 16:35.43 | qwerty12_N810 | But... the glasses make it look like "Boob"! |
| 16:35.48 | SamPieter | what if ... I buy the N900 when it gets available. Will that sync nicely with OSX? |
| 16:35.55 | andre__ | define "sync". |
| 16:36.03 | Stskeeps | luke-jr: processor is always good.. and noone says you can't use the xorg from fremantle :P |
| 16:36.11 | SamPieter | ehm, calendar, contacts, todo's |
| 16:36.17 | SamPieter | PIM, so to say |
| 16:36.31 | SamPieter | and perhaps itunes & iphoto as well |
| 16:36.31 | andre__ | with which app on OSX? |
| 16:36.42 | andre__ | iphoto should work, at least that's what i've been told |
| 16:36.53 | SamPieter | ical, Address Book, Things |
| 16:37.59 | andre__ | my question was: which app does that on mac os x? or is this "the apple system stuff"? |
| 16:38.03 | andre__ | does not have a mac |
| 16:38.17 | mgedmin | has a hotel reservation |
| 16:38.42 | wipeout140 | i assume he means like iphone does with itunes etc... |
| 16:38.54 | luke-jr | SamPieter: does N900 actually have Calendar/Todo? |
| 16:38.59 | lcuk | luke-jr, what do you care about 3d accel? you dont want anything closed so why are you drooling at stuff like that |
| 16:39.03 | SamPieter | andre__ I'm not sure what you mean. There's a program called iSync which one can use to sync to, say, a phone |
| 16:39.23 | SamPieter | luke-jr: I have no clue what the N900 has |
| 16:39.25 | luke-jr | lcuk: I'm not drooling, just pointing out that Diablo might not be faster on N900 |
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| 16:40.07 | andre__ | SamPieter, does http://maemo.nokia.com/features/calendar/ cover some questions? |
| 16:40.15 | lcuk | im standing near stskeeps on this - i would be interested in seeing true like for like comparison so we can see what power omap3 has added |
| 16:40.15 | SamPieter | andre__ then there are programs like iCal, which is your calendar; Address Book, which is your, well, address book |
| 16:40.21 | SamPieter | let me see |
| 16:40.22 | andre__ | i see |
| 16:40.24 | lcuk | knows its LOTS |
| 16:40.36 | andre__ | and http://maemo.nokia.com/features/contacts |
| 16:40.53 | luke-jr | lcuk: to see a fair view on OMAP3's improvements, you would need to implement the 3D accel |
| 16:40.58 | lcuk | why |
| 16:41.02 | SamPieter | andre__: I'm checking it out right now |
| 16:41.05 | luke-jr | that's one of the improvements |
| 16:41.18 | lcuk | luke-jr, i know that without even looking at 3d accel the omap3 is faster for my application |
| 16:41.30 | lcuk | im interested in the rest of the os tho :) |
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| 16:41.41 | luke-jr | :p |
| 16:41.52 | lcuk | just curiosity tho, i hadnt thought about it before lol |
| 16:42.08 | lcuk | has been running liqbase on omap3 for a while now :) |
| 16:42.25 | SamPieter | andre__: are these features on the n900 or also on my n810? |
| 16:42.42 | andre__ | SamPieter, that page describes the N900 and Fremantle |
| 16:42.53 | SamPieter | ah |
| 16:43.03 | andre__ | some of that stuff might be available for the N810, but not much i'd say |
| 16:43.27 | SamPieter | I see PC Suite, MS Exchange.... no OSX |
| 16:43.45 | SamPieter | I DON'T WANT TO USE AN iPHONE! |
| 16:43.49 | SamPieter | grmbl |
| 16:44.22 | Jaffa | dneary: Are you going to post a list of eligible candidates for standing? /me remembers the election period has opened today |
| 16:44.33 | dneary | Today??? |
| 16:44.42 | dneary | I thought it was the 9th |
| 16:44.43 | Jaffa | s/election/selection/ |
| 16:44.47 | dneary | I'm mixing up 2 dates |
| 16:44.51 | Jaffa | http://maemo.org/community/council/maemo_community_council-election_announcement/ |
| 16:45.21 | Jaffa | Texrat's just thrown his hat into the ring. |
| 16:45.23 | dneary | Yes, you're right |
| 16:45.28 | Jaffa | Which reminded me :) |
| 16:45.32 | dneary | I'll make the announcement & prepare the list |
| 16:45.45 | Jaffa | dneary: ta |
| 16:45.53 | Jaffa | has lots of summit stuff to do this evening |
| 16:46.15 | andre__ | i realize that "Home applets" in Bugzilla covers *both* Desktop applets and Statusbar stuff. Sigh. I think it should only cover the first, any other opinions? |
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| 16:48.34 | mgedmin | keesj: looking at your Maemo Summit 2009 google map now |
| 16:49.29 | lcuk | andre__, split them if possible |
| 16:50.11 | mgedmin | keesj: what do you think about adding the "official" hotel there? |
| 16:50.12 | *** part/#maemo SamPieter (n=SamPiete@201.216.64.205) |
| 16:52.13 | Jaffa | andre__: And, of course, they're called "widgets" in Fremantle |
| 16:52.45 | andre__ | gnarf. true. thanks. something for the todo list, after holidays |
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| 16:56.16 | Jaffa | andre__: When are you away? |
| 16:57.28 | andre__ | Jaffa, from tomorrow to next Tuesday. will mention it on qaiku... |
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| 17:03.43 | keesj | mgedmin: I think it would be good to add more stuff :p |
| 17:04.05 | keesj | so adding hotel would be great indeed |
| 17:04.28 | mgedmin | keesj: also, did I miss it or is there no link to your custom map from the maemo wiki? |
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| 17:05.44 | keesj | Indeed, I really like how they did it at the danish week-end , I was able to download pois' for maemo mapper |
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| 17:08.15 | andre__ | mgedmin, btw: do you plan to port xchat to fremantle? the diablo version basically works fine here in fremantle. just a few minor issues, e.g. with autocompletion |
| 17:08.35 | mgedmin | andre__: no concrete plans in near future, sorry |
| 17:08.42 | mgedmin | getting me a N900 might change that |
| 17:08.58 | mgedmin | or it might not, knowing myself... |
| 17:09.18 | mgedmin | for reference, I didn't _port_ xchat to diablo; I took somebody else's port and recompiled it on diablo |
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| 17:09.29 | keesj | mgedmin: I also just sent you a link to allow editing of the map |
| 17:09.57 | andre__ | mgedmin, ah, okay. just saw your name as Maintainer when installing |
| 17:10.36 | mgedmin | I think dpkg puts that when you build... or maybe I changed debian/control so people would know whom to blame about this particular .deb |
| 17:11.10 | lcuk | if that was the reason why didnt you put andre's name ;) |
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| 17:11.35 | andre__ | lcuk, because folks like me what ping me. i don't want that!! ;-) |
| 17:11.39 | andre__ | s/what/would |
| 17:12.04 | lcuk | but they wouldnt be pinging mg and thats the point :D |
| 17:12.28 | mgedmin | I don't mind being pinged |
| 17:12.38 | mgedmin | maybe somebody will believe me and send me a free n900 |
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| 17:28.04 | lardman | ~seen wooly |
| 17:28.05 | infobot | wooly <n=Wooly@stapler.eee.strath.ac.uk> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 25d 4m 9s ago, saying: 'tattie bye folks'. |
| 17:28.12 | *** part/#maemo stv0 (n=steffen@static-87-79-236-180.netcologne.de) |
| 17:28.29 | lardman | Anyone know Wooly's given name? |
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| 17:29.30 | RST38h | Mammoth? |
| 17:29.43 | lardman | lol |
| 17:29.45 | lardman | never know |
| 17:29.49 | lardman | of sheep |
| 17:29.54 | lardman | s/of/or |
| 17:34.57 | RST38h | Wired is reporting that the well-known "placebo effect" seems to be increasing as time goes on. Fewer and fewer medications are actually making it past drug trials since they are unable to show benefits above and beyond a placebo. |
| 17:36.09 | glass | or they're gone through most of the good stuff already in tests |
| 17:36.42 | RST38h | Well: Two comprehensive analyses of antidepressant trials have uncovered a dramatic increase in placebo response since the 1980s. One estimated that the so-called effect size (a measure of statistical significance) in placebo groups had nearly doubled over that time. |
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| 17:37.04 | RST38h | Watching too much TV no doubt =) |
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| 17:37.09 | glass | opiats fix everything(also the exact problem with them, haha..) |
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| 17:44.01 | BluesLee | crashanddie_: peng |
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| 17:46.54 | timeless_mbp | andre__: i'd be glad to see them split |
| 17:47.06 | timeless_mbp | andre__: so the story of osx and stuff.. |
| 17:47.40 | andre__ | it's on my todo list |
| 17:47.56 | dneary | Sheesh! preparing this list in wiki format is long |
| 17:48.08 | andre__ | first want to solve two issues i consider blockers myself... unclear stuff in current maemo.org bugzilla |
| 17:48.19 | andre__ | well. if i have enough time left |
| 17:48.23 | andre__ | else next week |
| 17:48.25 | timeless_mbp | for OSX you basically do some magic with iSync |
| 17:48.32 | timeless_mbp | it supposedly involves SyncML and stuff |
| 17:48.41 | timeless_mbp | and the odd thing is that part of this already exists |
| 17:48.50 | timeless_mbp | we don't know what's wrong w/ the OS X bridge |
| 17:49.05 | *** join/#maemo eichi__ (n=eichi@stgt-5f70b71c.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 17:49.12 | timeless_mbp | when you plug in an n900, you will get a pretty icon on your 10.5+ desktop |
| 17:49.37 | timeless_mbp | actually, you should get a really pretty icon |
| 17:49.47 | timeless_mbp | but for some reason we're currently using my draft icon instead of the better one |
| 17:49.52 | timeless_mbp | i need to poke someone |
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| 17:52.52 | javispedro | imagines a WSOD 770 used as icon ;P |
| 17:53.55 | RST38h | heya javis |
| 17:54.12 | RST38h | javis: found the hw scaling code already? |
| 17:54.22 | javispedro | ah, nope, didn't look at it |
| 17:54.28 | javispedro | just fixed the rom.gz thing |
| 17:54.43 | RST38h | coooooooool |
| 17:54.56 | javispedro | (yeah, the pathname manipulation wasted more time than replacing fopen, etc calls with gzopen equivalents) |
| 17:55.15 | wazd | oh, noksnes can open stuff from .gz?) |
| 17:55.29 | javispedro | the devel version is just being uploaded should :) |
| 17:56.05 | RST38h | javis: exactly - I basically include a block of stdio redefinitions under #ifdef ZLIB and forget about it |
| 17:58.09 | javispedro | either way I don't really need 3x zoom, unless you want to stretch or some other thing |
| 17:58.40 | RST38h | javis: hw scaling gives your basically free 2x or 3x zoom |
| 17:58.54 | javispedro | i'm using 2x hw scaling |
| 17:58.58 | javispedro | with the xsp lib |
| 17:59.03 | RST38h | javis: ah ok then you are all set |
| 17:59.09 | luke-jr | ... |
| 17:59.23 | javispedro | yeah, wazd was complaining because it does some kind of antialiasing |
| 17:59.37 | RST38h | it does. it is the hw thing, can't fix it |
| 17:59.49 | javispedro | which I find nice but I can understand some games feeling blurrry with it. |
| 18:00.23 | javispedro | doing anykind of sw scaling is _horrible_, I get an instant 5fps drop |
| 18:00.23 | RST38h | you can also add sw x2 scaling with tv effect :) |
| 18:00.57 | wazd | javispedro: well, nothing serious in AA at all |
| 18:01.13 | wazd | javispedro: I was just checking for possibility, not complaining :P |
| 18:01.23 | javispedro | wazd, hehe, don't mind :) |
| 18:01.47 | *** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:03.19 | wazd | I remember I was playing sega on 21" CRT TV and now I can see same thing in a 3x3cm space :) |
| 18:04.26 | RST38h | N900 will let you plug that CRT back =) |
| 18:05.20 | *** join/#maemo melmoth (n=melmoth@lec67-1-81-56-33-6.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:06.27 | BluesLee | does someone use the maemo sdk vm? |
| 18:06.42 | javispedro | oh, you bang omapfb directly |
| 18:06.55 | RST38h | more or less |
| 18:06.58 | RST38h | using ioctl |
| 18:08.01 | javispedro | currently i'm using xshm through sdl |
| 18:08.09 | javispedro | and xsp to control the pixel doubling |
| 18:08.10 | RST38h | it is slower. |
| 18:08.21 | javispedro | probably |
| 18:08.32 | RST38h | When in full screen mode, you can use fb0 and hw scaling |
| 18:08.55 | RST38h | In windowed mode, I use a gtk widget, it is more system friendly this way |
| 18:09.08 | javispedro | I need to check what does xsp do in fremantle btw |
| 18:09.21 | RST38h | hopefully the right thing |
| 18:09.32 | javispedro | hopefully :) |
| 18:09.35 | RST38h | but I have still found that going through x11 slows things down |
| 18:10.01 | javispedro | using omapfb you get all the tearsync goodness |
| 18:10.15 | RST38h | I can actually avoid it, at the cost of lower framerate |
| 18:10.24 | *** part/#maemo mcpi (n=user@p579B9EAD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:10.45 | RST38h | Right now, I decided not to avoid tearsync, nobody complained so far |
| 18:11.45 | lardman | I've just added a "Who's staying where" section to the Summit Accommodation page as people are starting to book now: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Accommodation |
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| 18:13.34 | lardman | hmm, should probably add in a hotel price to that table |
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| 18:15.42 | lardman | mgedmin: sorry I added a new column |
| 18:15.47 | mgedmin | :) |
| 18:16.18 | lardman | tho' Cost: No was interesting :) |
| 18:16.50 | mgedmin | I wish... |
| 18:16.57 | lardman | lol yeah |
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| 18:17.39 | mgedmin | now wonders about breakfast... if people plan to go grab a sandwitch somewhere else in the morning, it'd be more interesting than $generic_hotel_fare for 15 eur |
| 18:18.06 | lardman | I don;t know really, was just really expensive for me ~£13 so I thought I'd play it by ear |
| 18:18.31 | lardman | I'll go at least on the first morning I guess, then see what people think |
| 18:19.27 | lardman | did you change 530 -> 570 or were my eyes decieving me? |
| 18:19.45 | lardman | s/ie/ei |
| 18:20.53 | lardman | I wonder if it's worth putting up a page about when people are arriving/leaving and where from? |
| 18:21.10 | mgedmin | I change ~530 to 570 yes |
| 18:21.18 | mgedmin | IIRC it was 530 w/o breakfast and 570 with |
| 18:21.24 | lardman | I was going to say you got a bargain otherwise |
| 18:21.51 | lardman | hmm, mine was 510.30 Euros |
| 18:21.53 | mgedmin | flex+ means I can change my mind about breakfast at any time, right? |
| 18:22.03 | lardman | no idea, didn't check |
| 18:22.12 | lardman | that was the only option I saw though |
| 18:22.16 | mgedmin | since 4 * 15 = 60, 510 is same price as my reservation would've been |
| 18:22.23 | lardman | ah ok |
| 18:22.27 | mgedmin | the other options would've been cheaper |
| 18:22.39 | lardman | I didn't get any other options strangely |
| 18:22.44 | lardman | only the flex+ was offered |
| 18:22.46 | mgedmin | all booked out maybe |
| 18:22.55 | lardman | or because I'm not in Europe perhaps |
| 18:22.59 | mgedmin | there's only a month left |
| 18:23.01 | lardman | *shrug* |
| 18:23.12 | lardman | yeah, that's why I wanted to start to get moving on it |
| 18:23.58 | lardman | just changed my cost to the exact amount :) |
| 18:24.05 | lardman | right, must fly, back later on |
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| 18:25.29 | lcuk | lardman|afk, can i add roomtype as penthouse :D |
| 18:25.54 | mgedmin | underground lair... |
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| 18:26.10 | lcuk | o_O |
| 18:26.14 | lcuk | that sounds cool |
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| 18:28.25 | wazd | http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/09/09-07-09etna.jpg - even LG can make *5* row keyboard :) |
| 18:29.18 | Mousey | likes |
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| 18:32.48 | zerojayPC | 5 row keyboards don't help if you have a hard time hitting specific buttons. |
| 18:33.24 | andre__ | i could also have a 26 rows keyboard... but does that help anybody? |
| 18:33.47 | GeneralAntilles | I demand an integrated Model M! |
| 18:33.59 | lcuk | wazd, so, lg have 3 row keyboards ( http://blog.mobilesplease.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/lg_ks360_pink_1-copy.png ), 4 row keyboards ( http://experts.thelink.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/lg-gw520-calisto.jpg ) and now 5 row keyboards |
| 18:34.07 | Myrtti | pink?!?! |
| 18:34.13 | lcuk | i think nokia should saw fuck it and go for 10 |
| 18:34.18 | lcuk | :D andre__ |
| 18:34.49 | andre__ | lcuk, the trick is to turn it by 90 degrees. took me a while to find out though. |
| 18:35.05 | javispedro | I want 512x512 keyboard |
| 18:35.14 | lcuk | i have an 800*480 one |
| 18:35.17 | zerojayPC | I'd much rather have a 3 row keyboard if it means that I'll have a very easy time typing on it. |
| 18:35.19 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: they do those - I think they are called dance mats. |
| 18:35.52 | javispedro | lcuk, you gave me an idea, i want an integrated optimus oled keyboard |
| 18:36.22 | lcuk | it would be a cool thing to try |
| 18:36.29 | lcuk | and you can get flexible ones too |
| 18:36.48 | lcuk | so you could change the display to a reg keyboard and still have tactile feedback under where normal keys would be |
| 18:36.58 | lcuk | but you could use it as a sidebar if required |
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| 18:38.07 | javispedro | envisions $2000 N910 |
| 18:38.08 | SpeedEvil | It's not _quite_ impossible. There have been some related things along that line. |
| 18:38.31 | SpeedEvil | For example - braile boards that inflate teh dots using electrically heated gas to make a bubble |
| 18:38.43 | RST38h | Inflatable 3D display please. |
| 18:38.51 | RST38h | No need for color. |
| 18:38.55 | SpeedEvil | you could in principle do that on top of a display - and make it transparent. |
| 18:39.02 | *** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:39.04 | SpeedEvil | But it'd use _lots_ of power |
| 18:39.10 | RST38h | no shit |
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| 18:39.42 | lcuk | RST38h, you are just thinking of the pron angle |
| 18:40.20 | RST38h | lcuk: what other angle is there? |
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| 18:40.35 | RST38h | reboot to linux, let us see if I can make alsa work in maemo |
| 18:41.08 | *** join/#maemo L0cMini9 (n=kki@94.161.21.7) |
| 18:41.08 | lcuk | cool |
| 18:41.12 | javispedro | reads a comment about debian switching to upstart "being good for ISVs"; brain attention span safeguard trips off. |
| 18:46.56 | RST38h | -mtune=cortex-a8 -mfpu=neon -mfloat-abi=softfp -march=armv7-a |
| 18:47.14 | RST38h | remember these, you will use them more than once, soon enough ;) |
| 18:47.29 | javispedro | yeah, for now I removed the vfp ones for fremantle builds |
| 18:47.40 | javispedro | (it's been said gcc now defaults to them) |
| 18:48.15 | Captain_Picard | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n5ggZSDFbE&feature=channel_page We will not go to 4"+ screens |
| 18:48.18 | Captain_Picard | :( |
| 18:48.25 | javispedro | I wonder how we're going to build-depend on hw |
| 18:48.44 | javispedro | for now guessing maemo4 = n8x0 maemo5=n900 works ok |
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| 18:51.47 | RST38h | javis: Maemo4 is so different from Maemo5 that it is easier to submit two packages |
| 18:52.29 | lcuk | so different? |
| 18:52.52 | javispedro | RST38h, up so far, I've been abusing m4 to do it :) |
| 18:53.13 | javispedro | m4 for debian/* files, cpp for source files. |
| 18:53.18 | RST38h | lcuk: Well, different libraries, different cpu arch, different UI |
| 18:53.33 | RST38h | lcuk: different audio, different display (apparently 32bpp) |
| 18:53.40 | lcuk | meh |
| 18:53.44 | javispedro | RST38h, no way |
| 18:53.46 | javispedro | 32bpp?? |
| 18:53.54 | lcuk | im running same on 810 and 900 |
| 18:53.58 | RST38h | javis: all s60e5 phones are 32bpp now |
| 18:54.06 | lcuk | 16bit afaik |
| 18:54.07 | RST38h | lcuk: you are running yuv |
| 18:54.10 | lcuk | yeah |
| 18:54.30 | RST38h | lcuk: care to run xwininfo on the desktop? ;) |
| 18:54.48 | lcuk | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:54.48 | lcuk | -sh: xwininfo: not found |
| 18:54.50 | javispedro | it's not by default in the image |
| 18:54.52 | javispedro | heh |
| 18:55.41 | javispedro | RST38h, either way, sdk requires 16bpp. |
| 18:55.58 | javispedro | so either there's truly a _big_ sdk update in the way, or .. |
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| 19:07.32 | thopiekar | hi |
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| 19:09.25 | thopiekar | has someone of you a quick solution for my media player problems? my N800 isn't even able to play any files or internet stream's using mp3.. I think that problem is beating down the standby time of it as well.. lets say the turned off mode.. |
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| 19:19.29 | ShadowJK | I guess you've tried restarting? |
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| 19:22.56 | RST38h | ok, alsa support compiled, did not crash, but it makes no sound |
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| 19:32.51 | thopiekar | ShadowJK: yes.. |
| 19:34.10 | thopiekar | I searched for a configuration file in /home/user .. dunno where the settings of it are stored in maybe in gconf? |
| 19:39.06 | lbt | Jaffa: you about? |
| 19:39.55 | thopiekar | please help.. don't want to reflash my device cause of the mediaplayer :/ |
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| 19:42.48 | andre__ | thopiekar, might be a metalayer-crawler issue, but just wildly guessing here |
| 19:43.28 | thopiekar | so what can I do to "clean it up"? |
| 19:46.34 | Andy80 | sorry guys... maybe this could be an OT question but I'm really in trouble... why this command doesn't work: tar xfvz myroom/* baggage.tar.gz |
| 19:46.34 | Andy80 | :D |
| 19:47.21 | thopiekar | cd myroom |
| 19:47.21 | Stskeeps | isn't it c to create? |
| 19:47.21 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 19:47.21 | thopiekar | tar xfvz baggage.tar.gz |
| 19:47.39 | thopiekar | or take a look at tar --help |
| 19:48.44 | thopiekar | for the option for the outputfolder |
| 19:48.44 | thopiekar | ahh |
| 19:48.44 | RST38h | anyone has alsa example for maemo4? |
| 19:48.55 | thopiekar | he wants ot create a tar.gz :P |
| 19:48.56 | thopiekar | s/ot/to/ |
| 19:48.58 | thopiekar | where is our bot btw :D |
| 19:49.34 | thopiekar | hey infobot, try to be faster ;D |
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| 20:07.47 | GeneralAntilles | rg |
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| 20:31.26 | Jaffa | X-Fade: ping |
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| 20:31.56 | Jaffa | X-Fade: Doesn't matter. Found the page I was looking for. |
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| 20:31.58 | Proteous | god damn, how did they make ovi maps so unusable |
| 20:31.58 | Jaffa | Special skill. |
| 20:31.58 | Jaffa | It takes skill to make Navicore look good |
| 20:31.58 | Proteous | google maps has this neat feature where you can put in a start and end location and it maps a router |
| 20:31.59 | Proteous | OVI maps, not so much |
| 20:31.59 | Proteous | fuck all if I can figure out how to fucking make it work |
| 20:31.59 | Jaffa | Proteous: You can do that. It's just somewhat unintuitive |
| 20:31.59 | Proteous | I did manage to get it to plan a router between my current location and where I want to go but fuck if you can actualy do something like, you know, review the route to make sure it's not trying to take the closed down bridge |
| 20:32.00 | Proteous | well, you can have it do a real time simulation of the route |
| 20:32.00 | Proteous | if I wanted to wait for 1.5 hours to see what bridge it takes |
| 20:32.00 | Jaffa | Ha |
| 20:32.01 | Proteous | how about you let me scroll around on the route and check it out? Maybe? |
| 20:32.01 | Proteous | I consider myself pretty computer savy, hell, I do IT work, but damn I can't for the life of me figure out OVI maps |
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| 20:32.12 | Jaffa | X-Fade: Nope, need a ping: getting a "500 Server Error: Incomplete request" after hitting "Approve" |
| 20:32.12 | RST38h | Any kind human being has got an alsa example for maemo4? |
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| 20:38.26 | javispedro | RST38h, why wouldn't a Linux one work? |
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| 20:40.39 | RST38h | javis: Dunno. It initializes and does not crash but it does not make sound either |
| 20:40.50 | RST38h | Maemo4 seems to be useing a different version from Maemo5, too |
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| 20:44.18 | javispedro | RST38h, it should work, SDLa wasn't modified for maemo afaik |
| 20:46.40 | javispedro | you may want to try to build "aplay" as a starting point |
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| 20:48.00 | smackpotato | so ubuntu dims the screen when cpu usage hits 100%. is there anything for maemo that does this |
| 20:48.11 | RST38h | javis: I suspect that I really need amixer to investigate what controls I have got |
| 20:48.20 | RST38h | It may have some audio volume set low |
| 20:49.50 | javispedro | if you have my emu |
| 20:49.51 | javispedro | , |
| 20:49.59 | javispedro | export SDL_AUDIOBACKEND=alsa |
| 20:50.02 | javispedro | then run it |
| 20:50.30 | javispedro | or anything else using sdla, openttd comes to mind. |
| 20:50.46 | RST38h | I am sure it will work. But I am not using SDL :( |
| 20:51.05 | javispedro | but SDL uses ALSA :) |
| 20:51.19 | RST38h | Well, will figure it out eventually. So far, ESD seems to work for me, although it is more wasteful |
| 20:51.25 | javispedro | if it was muted it would fail. |
| 20:51.33 | javispedro | I've decided to settle for ESD |
| 20:51.49 | javispedro | oh |
| 20:51.50 | javispedro | btw |
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| 20:51.55 | RST38h | hmm |
| 20:52.09 | javispedro | ALSA breaks often, try rebooting |
| 20:52.25 | javispedro | e.g. not closing it properly sometimes leaves it in a confused state. |
| 20:52.36 | javispedro | (even if the caller app dies) |
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| 20:55.43 | RST38h | umgh |
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| 21:13.23 | lardman|afk | re |
| 21:14.04 | javispedro | hi |
| 21:14.18 | AStorm | hello |
| 21:14.53 | lardman | hi chaps |
| 21:15.33 | AStorm | hmmh |
| 21:15.48 | AStorm | has to unfreeze some money for the N900 |
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| 21:19.12 | mgedmin | AStorm: have you found a place that actually sells them? |
| 21:22.40 | AStorm | mgedmin: locally? they're on preorder, duh |
| 21:22.58 | AStorm | should be available in October |
| 21:23.07 | *** join/#maemo eichi__ (n=eichi@stgt-5f70b71c.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 21:23.43 | mgedmin | good for you ... |
| 21:23.49 | AStorm | damn it, my bank changed the savings account rules for the worse |
| 21:23.51 | mavhc | how many times more expensive than n810 on release is it? |
| 21:23.56 | AStorm | have to find a better bank ;P |
| 21:24.11 | AStorm | mavhc: hard to say, it's 599 Euro vs 499 Euro |
| 21:24.35 | lardman | is there a UK price yet? |
| 21:24.41 | lardman | wanders to the Nokia.co.uk site |
| 21:24.47 | AStorm | yes, I think Å499 |
| 21:24.52 | lardman | ouch |
| 21:25.06 | mavhc | n810 was 499? |
| 21:25.08 | lardman | yet £499 it is |
| 21:25.20 | lardman | s.yet/yep |
| 21:25.28 | lardman | oh dear why do I bother trying to type |
| 21:25.31 | lardman | :) |
| 21:25.54 | AStorm | mavhc: yes, it was I think |
| 21:26.08 | AStorm | but Google or Wikipedia might remember better than me |
| 21:26.09 | mavhc | do you code with those fingers? |
| 21:26.59 | lardman | yeah :) |
| 21:27.18 | mavhc | tabletblog said $450 |
| 21:27.41 | lardman | I wonder if the £ price will go down if the strength of the Euro decays...? |
| 21:28.00 | mavhc | I'll wait for it to halve in price |
| 21:29.37 | *** part/#maemo MrGoose (n=cache@5ac86e7c.bb.sky.com) |
| 21:34.39 | lardman | how do I send an irc message to someone? I.e. if he's not online atm. Is that possible? |
| 21:35.03 | Mek | you can somehow use memoserv for that I think |
| 21:35.37 | lardman | ok, I'll do some Googling, thanks |
| 21:35.46 | AStorm | lardman: /msg memoserv help |
| 21:35.54 | lardman | cheers |
| 21:35.54 | AStorm | but people tend to ignore it quite a bit |
| 21:35.58 | mavhc | and what's the usa price for n900? |
| 21:36.08 | lardman | AStorm: yeah, but better than nothing |
| 21:36.27 | AStorm | mavhc: nobody knows yet |
| 21:36.55 | AStorm | lardman: and no, the prices aren't tied |
| 21:37.09 | AStorm | mavhc: it'll probably never halve in price |
| 21:37.18 | mavhc | $649 |
| 21:37.56 | mavhc | so 45% more expensive for it to be a phone |
| 21:38.04 | lardman | hmm, not a registered nick, not ideal |
| 21:38.11 | AStorm | and have a real camera |
| 21:38.21 | lardman | mavhc: yeah strange isn't it that phones are always really dear |
| 21:38.21 | AStorm | and faster cpu, more flash, etc. |
| 21:38.30 | ShadowJK | phone with >2x the cpu power :) |
| 21:38.46 | ShadowJK | and 2x the ram :) |
| 21:38.49 | lardman | yeah, but just in general |
| 21:38.52 | mavhc | AStorm: but all that's just technology progressing in the past few years |
| 21:38.52 | AStorm | and hopefully less sucky GPS |
| 21:39.08 | AStorm | mavhc: yes, but remember that you're comparing it with old tech |
| 21:39.17 | mavhc | at original prices |
| 21:39.18 | ShadowJK | probably the same gps, I bet ;p |
| 21:39.33 | AStorm | ShadowJK: likely not, different chip |
| 21:39.36 | mavhc | lardman: I have to assume that testing/licensing of something costs loads |
| 21:40.16 | AStorm | yeah, they had to find a good modem and get that radio agency approval in the EU and US |
| 21:40.21 | lardman | mavhc: yeah |
| 21:40.25 | ShadowJK | the radios and stuff cost about 100-150 separately, without power management finesse :) |
| 21:40.37 | ShadowJK | if you buy chinese |
| 21:40.47 | *** join/#maemo ShellEvil (n=user@87.113.137.192) |
| 21:40.49 | AStorm | and are lucky enough to get one with a working Linux driver |
| 21:41.08 | AStorm | you still get to build that one... and for 2.6.19? (or was it 2.6.21) |
| 21:41.26 | lardman | I thought they tend to be black boxes |
| 21:41.39 | AStorm | not always |
| 21:41.39 | ShadowJK | iirc Nokia sent driver for one of their own hsdpa modems to upstream lniux kernel |
| 21:41.41 | lardman | at least the ones that are exposed to mere *users*! :) |
| 21:41.49 | mavhc | you don't just send it AT commands? |
| 21:41.51 | AStorm | standard-compliant ones support CDC-ACM |
| 21:42.02 | AStorm | and look like normal modems |
| 21:42.21 | AStorm | extra stuff though like SMS and signal power... |
| 21:42.28 | ShellEvil | And have fun undocumented extensions. |
| 21:42.40 | AStorm | sometimes documented |
| 21:42.41 | ShellEvil | points at the huwai e220 |
| 21:42.43 | ShellEvil | yeah |
| 21:42.54 | mavhc | what about $20 phones? |
| 21:43.02 | AStorm | those are subsidized |
| 21:43.11 | ShellEvil | is currently needing to recieve a SMS through the e220 that uses a non-standard interface apparantly |
| 21:43.12 | AStorm | or have *old* hardware |
| 21:43.14 | ShadowJK | they dont speak anything sensible |
| 21:43.26 | AStorm | indeed |
| 21:43.27 | ShellEvil | $20 ones from ebay do |
| 21:43.31 | ShadowJK | no data support at all typically |
| 21:43.36 | ShellEvil | $20 ones from ebay can have serial out |
| 21:43.48 | AStorm | serial out is not good... need a dongle |
| 21:43.55 | ShellEvil | :) |
| 21:43.56 | AStorm | and the protocol might not be standard AT |
| 21:43.58 | *** join/#maemo stv0 (n=steffen@dslb-088-076-039-089.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:44.18 | ShellEvil | AStorm: there are lists of phones with serial outs on the intarwebs. |
| 21:44.25 | ShellEvil | and yes. |
| 21:44.50 | AStorm | also, connecting by wire is hell |
| 21:45.11 | AStorm | while BT+HSPA phones are expensive and usually have short battery life |
| 21:45.23 | ShellEvil | yeah. |
| 21:45.36 | ShadowJK | depends what you do :) |
| 21:45.46 | AStorm | like stay connected? ;P |
| 21:45.51 | AStorm | it eats battery like a call |
| 21:46.03 | ShadowJK | mine stays connected a few days |
| 21:46.08 | AStorm | (which means ~4h on my Samsung U700 and that's a fairly good time) |
| 21:46.18 | AStorm | ShadowJK: no no, not just "stay", actually use the connection |
| 21:46.27 | AStorm | I can stay on hspa for some weeks |
| 21:46.36 | ShadowJK | irc? :) |
| 21:46.40 | AStorm | assuming nothing actually is using the connection |
| 21:46.48 | AStorm | yes, irc eats the battery as usual |
| 21:48.25 | ShadowJK | downloading at hspa speeds consumes like a call :) |
| 21:48.35 | AStorm | true. |
| 21:49.03 | AStorm | is EDGE also UMTS or not? |
| 21:49.05 | ShadowJK | and using phone as wifi ap eats shitloads on most things because it's ad-hoc which has no powersaving |
| 21:49.13 | ShadowJK | no it's gsm |
| 21:49.25 | luke-jr | ... |
| 21:49.30 | luke-jr | wifi powersaving is a bad joke anyway |
| 21:49.30 | AStorm | oh, so I could just disable UMTS and it might live longer |
| 21:49.36 | ShadowJK | gsm: gprs, edge |
| 21:49.42 | AStorm | hey, I connect via bluetooth ;p |
| 21:49.50 | ShadowJK | 3g: umts, hsdpa, hsupa |
| 21:49.52 | AStorm | so hspa doesn't give me much if anything anyway |
| 21:50.07 | AStorm | (stupid phone claiming BT 2.1 EDR but not delivering) |
| 21:50.21 | AStorm | (either that, or n810 doesn't support it) |
| 21:50.46 | ShadowJK | bluetooth between some of my devices has a tendency to randomly cripple powersaing too. I tend to monitor use and reconnect if it eats alot of power |
| 21:51.29 | AStorm | hmmh |
| 21:51.42 | AStorm | how would I check for that? |
| 21:51.45 | ShadowJK | Well I've downloaded at >1mbit/s n810-bluetooth-phone, so n810 does support edr |
| 21:52.29 | ShadowJK | on s60 there's "energy profiler" and on n810 some googling should yield "ftd" |
| 21:57.44 | AStorm | hmmh |
| 21:57.55 | AStorm | but I doubt I could squeeze out anything better out of that phone |
| 21:58.14 | AStorm | and yes, it's the phone claiming EDR and not delivering more than 384 kbps |
| 21:58.42 | AStorm | (USB works fast) |
| 22:00.08 | *** join/#maemo L0cutus (n=mine@94.161.21.7) |
| 22:00.25 | ShadowJK | wifi psm works good enough for me anyway, when n810 eats 20mA idling with xchat open :) |
| 22:00.38 | ShadowJK | has idea on how to improve it.. |
| 22:00.44 | *** join/#maemo _berto_ (n=berto@206.33.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 22:01.46 | *** part/#maemo stv0 (n=steffen@dslb-088-076-039-089.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:02.19 | AStorm | ShadowJK: lucky you, it eats far more here, maybe my IRC is more... busy ;P |
| 22:02.27 | *** part/#maemo Kode_ (n=kode@ip-213-49-240-254.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 22:02.30 | AStorm | note that I'm connecting via an ssh tunnel |
| 22:02.34 | *** join/#maemo kaw1 (n=kwame@pool-71-246-83-187.bltmmd.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:03.01 | *** join/#maemo Kode_ (n=kode@ip-213-49-240-254.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 22:03.29 | ShadowJK | Yeah, it eats more during busy days |
| 22:04.17 | AStorm | hmm, seems I'll have to move my investment to a savings account in another bank :/ |
| 22:04.19 | AStorm | what a mess |
| 22:04.31 | ShadowJK | if you make another program to sit on your ssh server, and on tablet, that batches messages, then there'd be less wakeups |
| 22:04.52 | ShadowJK | only batch when screen off / idle, of course |
| 22:05.41 | ShadowJK | idea is to save up, say, 10 seconds of traffic into one single bigger chunk instead of trickling it one line at a time |
| 22:05.52 | lardman | you could batch when the fg app is not the one that is using the connection |
| 22:06.09 | *** join/#maemo t0h (n=tommi@dsl-kvlbrasgw2-fe0cdf00-1.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 22:06.17 | AStorm | ShadowJK: yeah, and have IRC lag by 10s |
| 22:06.17 | ShadowJK | lardman: that takes actual effort though |
| 22:06.22 | AStorm | an excellent idea ;P |
| 22:06.30 | ShadowJK | astorm: only whe screen is off |
| 22:06.39 | *** join/#maemo mojocafe (n=Miranda@d013225.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 22:06.40 | ShadowJK | and you dont notice it |
| 22:06.44 | AStorm | ShadowJK: what screen? |
| 22:06.45 | mojocafe | gooood evening everyone |
| 22:06.46 | AStorm | ;P |
| 22:06.52 | AStorm | I'm using dircproxy there |
| 22:06.52 | ShadowJK | the tablet's screen |
| 22:06.56 | lardman | like the clock not updating when the screen is off |
| 22:06.56 | AStorm | ah that |
| 22:07.00 | mojocafe | aaaah - long time no see ! |
| 22:07.03 | AStorm | then I could just disconnect I guess |
| 22:07.10 | AStorm | mojocafe: hello back! :) |
| 22:07.32 | ShadowJK | yeah dircproxy can send you what you missed when you reconnect :) |
| 22:07.32 | mojocafe | Jesus i havent been in here for ages. But now i am back and i have a BOMB with me :) |
| 22:07.45 | AStorm | ShadowJK: to a limit. |
| 22:07.49 | lardman | H2O2? |
| 22:07.55 | AStorm | I'll have to improve its notifications etc. |
| 22:08.03 | AStorm | and log resend capabilities |
| 22:08.06 | mojocafe | Oh my gosh, the last time i was in here, there was an average of 50 people in here now we have a mob ! |
| 22:08.07 | kaw1 | Hello all. Anyone know how to recover if the mail application on the N810 continually crashes when started? Short of re-flashing, that is. Perhaps delete some settings files via the terminal? |
| 22:08.08 | AStorm | but that's for later |
| 22:08.22 | lardman | mojocafe: when were you last in? |
| 22:08.25 | AStorm | mojocafe: mob of idlers? ;> |
| 22:08.30 | mojocafe | lardman: 1974 i think. |
| 22:08.35 | lardman | lol |
| 22:08.38 | mojocafe | *just kidding* |
| 22:09.00 | RST38h | OOk, ALSA fixed |
| 22:09.01 | AStorm | kaw1: do you have all the latest updates? |
| 22:09.04 | ShadowJK | mojocafe: I hide the userlist for my own sanity's sake |
| 22:09.08 | mojocafe | Ok guys, i have some good news for you! At least those that can remember what i developed "back in those days". |
| 22:09.17 | RST38h | has been too polite with ALSA. A couple of good kicks and it is running |
| 22:09.20 | mojocafe | Ok, general, where is the general ? |
| 22:09.21 | kaw1 | AStorm: Yes, I believe so. I just checked |
| 22:09.31 | mojocafe | Not in... ok. :( |
| 22:09.34 | javispedro | RST38h, :D |
| 22:09.46 | AStorm | kaw1: hmm, there are a few things that could be broken: 1) your swap file |
| 22:09.54 | AStorm | 2) your card's filesystem |
| 22:10.03 | ShadowJK | mojocafe: he's sulking and/or raging about at& tfrequencies ;) |
| 22:10.10 | mojocafe | :D |
| 22:10.17 | javispedro | RST38h, be careful with Maemo's ALSA small buffer, < PAGE_SIZE bytes |
| 22:10.28 | javispedro | (minus overhead) |
| 22:10.36 | lardman | mojocafe: I think he also works these days |
| 22:10.45 | kaw1 | Astorm: I haven't tried deleting the swap file and re-creating it. That sounds like a plan. |
| 22:10.51 | javispedro | I got hit with that while playing with drnoksnes |
| 22:10.51 | RST38h | javis: In my GetFreeAudio() call when ALSA returns -1, I had to kick it into gonads instead of returning 0 |
| 22:11.08 | RST38h | will be fine with <PAGE_SIZE buffer |
| 22:11.38 | javispedro | at 44100 stereo 16-bit samples, it's a bit too short for my liking |
| 22:12.02 | mojocafe | ok ok.... ok :) ..... so here is my news: i updated my MOJOCAFE projekt and guess what: i found a way how you can use it WITHOUT having to register ! You can have full screen widgets on the n8x0 without having to provide ANY information :) .... just like general ask to and now i made it :) |
| 22:13.21 | mojocafe | you can check it out at http://www.mojocafe.net |
| 22:13.23 | javispedro | behold: the non believers' post! http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31373 |
| 22:13.59 | lardman | burn him! |
| 22:14.21 | ShadowJK | so, uh, what's mojocafe? :) |
| 22:14.22 | lardman | sorry, was watching the Tudors and got carrried away |
| 22:14.42 | RST38h | hmm, maemo alsa still does not work |
| 22:14.46 | RST38h | linux alsa works |
| 22:14.50 | mojocafe | ShadowJK: it's a project i developed to bring full screen widgets to ALL of my mobile devices |
| 22:15.03 | javispedro | RST38h, did you try aplay? does aplay work? |
| 22:15.08 | javispedro | it's a single-file binary. |
| 22:15.14 | javispedro | (1 kloc-ish) |
| 22:16.25 | mojocafe | This was the first version: http://video.google.de/googleplayer.swf?docid=-4254502208055432294&hl=de&fs=true |
| 22:16.42 | javispedro | (i mean, a single .c source file binary, around 1000 lines of code) |
| 22:17.03 | RST38h | javis: No, don't have aplay. Debugging with printfs |
| 22:18.26 | mojocafe | I am porting the rest of the roundabout 100 old mojos like calendars, digital clocks etc. within the next hours and days into the new system. |
| 22:19.40 | mojocafe | anyone in here who could test out the new mojocafe version on a n810 ? |
| 22:20.37 | RST38h | javis: I am failing to open ALSA PCM device :( |
| 22:20.43 | javispedro | RST38h, which one? |
| 22:20.51 | javispedro | or are you using the default one? |
| 22:20.52 | RST38h | "default" |
| 22:20.55 | javispedro | hm |
| 22:21.19 | RST38h | if(snd_pcm_open(&ALSA,"default",SNDRV_PCM_STREAM_PLAYBACK,0)<0) { die; } |
| 22:21.35 | RST38h | Am I doing something wrong? |
| 22:23.11 | javispedro | is wandering around aplay.c source |
| 22:24.03 | *** join/#maemo angasule (n=angasule@201.250.121.74) |
| 22:24.20 | mojocafe | ShadowJK - have you checked it out ? |
| 22:25.26 | AStorm | RST38h: doesn't look like it |
| 22:25.35 | AStorm | oh, wait, that last 0 |
| 22:25.46 | RST38h | Device or resource busy |
| 22:25.51 | RST38h | This is what I am getting |
| 22:26.05 | RST38h | Somebody else is using ALSA |
| 22:26.09 | javispedro | RST38h, reboot again.. |
| 22:26.14 | RST38h | hmmm |
| 22:26.16 | RST38h | ok |
| 22:26.19 | javispedro | that's what happens when it gets stuck |
| 22:26.33 | RST38h | holy fuck. |
| 22:26.38 | AStorm | heh |
| 22:26.44 | AStorm | some app is using ALSA right now |
| 22:26.52 | AStorm | check if you don't have some ESD running |
| 22:27.01 | RST38h | but if it gets stuck like this, does it mean I can't safely use it for applications? |
| 22:27.05 | javispedro | AStorm: not really, on Maemo ESD does not output to ALSA |
| 22:27.06 | AStorm | 0 is fine (standard mode) |
| 22:27.19 | AStorm | javispedro: but it still does output to the card, it might interfere |
| 22:27.34 | AStorm | I'd kill it just in case |
| 22:27.40 | *** join/#maemo chenca (n=chenca@189.70.185.246) |
| 22:27.41 | javispedro | RST38h, this the kind of problem that would be solved if every other coder in the world was perfect :) |
| 22:27.56 | javispedro | assuming you don't use broken programs, it should work |
| 22:27.58 | AStorm | or if you wrote a pulseaudio driver |
| 22:28.01 | AStorm | :) |
| 22:28.12 | AStorm | (or made pulseaudio ALSA driver work) |
| 22:28.23 | RST38h | javis: hmm ok |
| 22:28.36 | RST38h | has heard scary stuff about pulseaudio |
| 22:28.51 | AStorm | (then use alsa-pulse plugin to route all remaining ALSA users to pulseaudio) |
| 22:28.53 | javispedro | AStorm: ESD outputs to another pcmtask, they are not related at all. lardman may talk about this better than me |
| 22:28.58 | RST38h | Floating point exception (core dumped) |
| 22:29.04 | AStorm | uhoh. |
| 22:29.09 | javispedro | RST38h, well, you got it further. |
| 22:29.10 | javispedro | :) |
| 22:29.11 | AStorm | check format. |
| 22:29.23 | RST38h | ok, it crashed and alsa is stuck again now |
| 22:29.32 | javispedro | yes, that's the plan :P |
| 22:29.38 | AStorm | show your code please :) |
| 22:29.45 | RST38h | I am not using this crap. |
| 22:29.49 | RST38h | Back to ESD. |
| 22:30.09 | javispedro | RST38h, i did not want to influence you, but I made that exact decision too. |
| 22:30.11 | javispedro | :) |
| 22:30.26 | AStorm | esp. what hw info you set |
| 22:30.29 | javispedro | considering I was abstracted of the ALSA API by SDL, it only goes to show how much alsa... well. |
| 22:30.34 | AStorm | and whether you have called snd_pcm_prepare |
| 22:31.34 | AStorm | RST38h: you get to call snd_pcm_hw_params properly :> |
| 22:31.37 | RST38h | AStorm: 44100 |
| 22:31.41 | RST38h | AStorm: 150ms |
| 22:31.47 | *** join/#maemo MrGoose (n=cache@5ac86e7c.bb.sky.com) |
| 22:31.49 | AStorm | which bit format? |
| 22:31.51 | RST38h | AStorm: Works on Ubuntu. Works on EA Linux. |
| 22:31.55 | RST38h | 16LE |
| 22:31.58 | RST38h | 1 channel |
| 22:31.59 | AStorm | hmmh |
| 22:32.02 | AStorm | should work |
| 22:32.15 | AStorm | what was the "current" setup? |
| 22:32.34 | AStorm | (snd_pcm_hw_params_current) |
| 22:32.38 | RST38h | a moment |
| 22:32.44 | AStorm | before and after setup |
| 22:33.19 | RST38h | AStorm: http://pastebin.com/m3c10bcb8 |
| 22:33.23 | RST38h | This is after setup. |
| 22:34.09 | AStorm | looks ok |
| 22:34.32 | AStorm | do you have a debugger there to check where the exception occurred? |
| 22:34.51 | *** join/#maemo victorpoluceno (n=Victor@187-4-240-200.bnut3700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 22:35.32 | RST38h | AStorm: I do, but I have solved the problem by eutanasia. |
| 22:35.54 | RST38h | Absolutely no desire to find out just how exactly this particular ALSA implementation is broken |
| 22:35.55 | *** join/#maemo GeneralAntilles (n=GeneralA@c-98-230-62-25.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 22:37.33 | javispedro | esd = 39 source files pulseaudio = 209 |
| 22:37.48 | RST38h | javis: This is why I intended to go ALSA for Maemo5 |
| 22:38.10 | javispedro | oh |
| 22:38.12 | RST38h | javis: My only hope is that it will be less broken there (seems to be a completely different version, same as in Ubuntu) |
| 22:38.16 | javispedro | if your target is maemo5, you ma |
| 22:38.29 | javispedro | was going to say you may get better luck there :) |
| 22:38.45 | RST38h | My current target is Maemo4. I have no Maemo5 hardware and SB is broken. |
| 22:39.35 | javispedro | The DSP no longer does sound in n900 (read here), so I guess alsa is back to the usual configuration |
| 22:40.11 | RST38h | ESD does not seem to go lower than 44.1kHz on Maemo4. Weird... |
| 22:40.43 | javispedro | RST38h, it did for me, but of course it does resampling |
| 22:40.44 | javispedro | in sw |
| 22:40.55 | RST38h | javis: What is its native resolution? |
| 22:41.08 | javispedro | forgot, lemme check |
| 22:43.09 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (n=timeless@a88-115-8-36.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 22:44.59 | mojocafe | anyone with a n810 willing to test out the new mojocafe.net ? |
| 22:46.40 | javispedro | wow, I've been using my partially borked esd version in my N810 since the days I was playing with the audio :s |
| 22:46.58 | javispedro | now I understand why the battery seemed to go down faster these days :D |
| 22:47.08 | RST38h | heh |
| 22:47.20 | javispedro | it's 44100 by default |
| 22:47.30 | javispedro | you can actually make it output 48000 to the dsp |
| 22:47.41 | javispedro | but don't know what the dsp will do to that |
| 22:51.25 | lardman | have a look in the arm-side gstreamer bit of the dsp sink |
| 22:51.37 | lardman | I seem to remember seeing some params |
| 22:51.48 | lardman | though was long ago, so may be my imagination :) |
| 22:52.09 | javispedro | lardman: I see the esd driver setting those, so I guess the dsp doesn't have anything to say about that ;) |
| 22:52.28 | javispedro | e.g. pcm_params_data.sample_rate = SAMPLE_RATE_44_1KHZ; |
| 22:52.30 | lardman | well it will accept whatever you give it I guess |
| 22:52.33 | javispedro | (pcm_params_data.dsp_cmd = DSP_CMD_SET_PARAMS) |
| 22:52.37 | lardman | yep |
| 22:52.51 | javispedro | will it work if it sets 48000? |
| 22:53.04 | lardman | is there a define for that value? |
| 22:53.09 | lardman | if not, no |
| 22:53.09 | javispedro | yep |
| 22:53.13 | javispedro | SAMPLE_RATE_48KHZ |
| 22:53.17 | lardman | well then yes probably |
| 22:53.25 | javispedro | well, what the *, i'll try it :) |
| 22:53.30 | lardman | :) |
| 22:53.43 | lardman | heads back to the TV, let me know how it goes :) |
| 22:56.28 | RST38h | javis: So ESD uses 44.1? |
| 22:56.35 | javispedro | RST38h, yep |
| 22:56.45 | javispedro | so, by default, it'll mix everything to 44.1 |
| 22:56.45 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=valerio@bl5-195-39.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 22:56.52 | RST38h | ok, then my rate is ok |
| 22:57.59 | RST38h | Ah, the blivit guy continues on his quest for uncovering maemo security disaster! |
| 22:58.11 | javispedro | grabs popcorn |
| 22:58.24 | VDVsx | mgedmin, ping |
| 22:58.39 | mgedmin | VDVsx: are you sure? |
| 22:58.42 | RST38h | goes to sleep. It is 2:58 here |
| 22:58.50 | javispedro | bah, trying to guess who is doing the resampling by looking at cpu usage is crazy |
| 22:59.12 | RST38h | javis: The correct answer is "some bastard" |
| 22:59.17 | VDVsx | mgedmin, yeah, I got a 403 in the logs page :P |
| 22:59.23 | mgedmin | oops |
| 22:59.27 | javispedro | mplayer uses 12% of the cpu using esd backend, but nearly 0% using sdl-esd. esd using the same average the whole time. |
| 22:59.43 | javispedro | well. |
| 22:59.50 | javispedro | not really, esd's average is a bit higher |
| 22:59.59 | mojocafe | Ok guys. nevermind. thanks for your time. see you later. |
| 22:59.59 | javispedro | so I guess it's the bastard |
| 23:00.17 | RST38h | you have no other alternatives to esd so who cares how much it eats... |
| 23:00.27 | javispedro | RST38h, actually, I think it's pretty good |
| 23:00.41 | RST38h | alsa broken and gst addresses different purposes |
| 23:00.43 | javispedro | better than mplayer for a start, which seems... incredible |
| 23:00.51 | RST38h | heh |
| 23:01.24 | RST38h | let us hope pulseaudio does not bring system to complete stop |
| 23:01.30 | javispedro | (lower quality too if my poor hear is to be trusted) |
| 23:01.48 | javispedro | it will .) |
| 23:01.54 | javispedro | we'll see. |
| 23:02.03 | javispedro | hopefully, |
| 23:02.23 | javispedro | the slowness is mitigated by the cool things (e.g. routing phone audio signal to apps, etc) |
| 23:03.13 | mgedmin | VDVsx: fixed, thanks for the heads up! |
| 23:03.22 | javispedro | reinstalls osso-esd from tableeter |
| 23:03.30 | VDVsx | mgedmin, thanks, np :) |
| 23:03.42 | mgedmin | struggles with PIL |
| 23:13.16 | lcuk | anyone know what format the video out from the n900 is |
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| 23:17.13 | timeless_mbp | lcuk: um, avi? :) |
| 23:17.25 | lcuk | i mean the wired video format |
| 23:17.30 | lcuk | not the stuff taken from the cam |
| 23:17.46 | timeless_mbp | in English? |
| 23:18.32 | AStorm | RST38h: pulseaudio should be faster |
| 23:18.40 | till- | pal and/or ntsc i guess |
| 23:18.46 | timeless_mbp | oh |
| 23:18.48 | AStorm | mplayer's pulse backend is fast (tested here) |
| 23:18.50 | AStorm | unlike esd one |
| 23:18.51 | timeless_mbp | yes |
| 23:18.56 | timeless_mbp | you can pick pal or ntsc at runtime |
| 23:19.00 | timeless_mbp | it's a pref |
| 23:19.18 | timeless_mbp | setting, whatever |
| 23:19.22 | javispedro | AStorm: I don't what's with the mplayer esd backend, but it's mindboggling slow |
| 23:19.33 | javispedro | AStorm: even sdl-esd backend is 10 times faster |
| 23:19.52 | AStorm | mplayer is using too short blocks |
| 23:20.01 | till- | presumebly like the n82 and n95s vo |
| 23:20.01 | AStorm | and esd protocol is fairly heavy |
| 23:20.03 | javispedro | that, or resampling with a überquality algorithm |
| 23:20.11 | AStorm | nopes. |
| 23:20.21 | AStorm | unless you're running 48000 Hz audio |
| 23:20.21 | javispedro | AStorm, it resamples, while the sdl-esd does not. |
| 23:20.32 | AStorm | oh drat. |
| 23:20.43 | AStorm | buggy mplayer version :> |
| 23:20.52 | AStorm | anyway, esd resampling is horrible and should be banned |
| 23:21.01 | AStorm | LERP was good enough for 8-bit computers |
| 23:21.09 | javispedro | horrible, but fast. and my poor hearing cannot notice it :) |
| 23:21.16 | AStorm | give us cubic on DSP |
| 23:21.34 | javispedro | AStorm, afaik, DSP no longer for sound in N900. |
| 23:21.37 | javispedro | *used. |
| 23:21.40 | AStorm | even better :) |
| 23:21.46 | javispedro | even slower :) |
| 23:21.58 | AStorm | unless memory transfers are dog-slow, it still has DSP |
| 23:22.00 | AStorm | which could be used for that |
| 23:22.58 | AStorm | anyway, cubic done well is not much more expensive than linear |
| 23:23.22 | AStorm | even if CPU is to run it |
| 23:28.07 | *** join/#maemo PhonoE71 (n=Phonophi@m150e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 23:32.09 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 23:33.07 | *** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@nat/ibm/x-iwhhyfglbqozmpuz) |
| 23:36.26 | AStorm | of course, if the DSP is running it, sinc might be a far better choice - I think there are special instructions for it |
| 23:37.47 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf-n810 (n=hellwolf@a213-22-69-165.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 23:41.03 | lardman | dsp is not used for sound as the whole device can reach a lower power level if it decodes on ARM |
| 23:41.20 | lardman | assuming a use case of the screen off and just decoding audio, which is probably fair |
| 23:41.32 | lardman | that is what I understand to be the reason anyway |
| 23:43.22 | lardman | AStorm: nothing to stop you from writing a DSP task to do it mind you |
| 23:44.15 | AStorm | heh |
| 23:44.25 | AStorm | not that it would be easy, it's still C64x DSP :/ |
| 23:44.37 | AStorm | I hoped they'd add C67x instead, more useful |
| 23:44.48 | AStorm | (it's floating point) |
| 23:44.52 | lardman | it has 8bit types, stop moaning ;) |
| 23:45.16 | lardman | convert to fixed point, not too difficult |
| 23:45.58 | lardman | in fact the DSP has macros to do that, and then to handlle the fixed point calcs, you just need to work out how many points you need and where |
| 23:45.59 | AStorm | but calculate sinc with fixed point, yes difficult :> |
| 23:46.07 | lardman | is it, I don't know |
| 23:46.12 | AStorm | at least, efficiently |
| 23:46.34 | lardman | sinc filter is this? |
| 23:46.40 | AStorm | cubic would still be easy though |
| 23:46.59 | AStorm | but that would still probably use less power on the main cpu than dsp |
| 23:47.53 | lardman | it's not that the main CPU is more power efficient, just that the main CPU must remain powered up if the DSP is running, but the DSP can be shutdown if not being used |
| 23:48.03 | AStorm | true |
| 23:48.17 | AStorm | so what that DSP is good for, anyway? :> |
| 23:48.24 | AStorm | maybe only offload there when CPU load is high? |
| 23:48.25 | lardman | that is the reason for the decision anyway, so I heard |
| 23:48.32 | lardman | video decoding |
| 23:48.43 | lardman | that is what it will be used for afaiu |
| 23:48.53 | AStorm | yes, see above :) when the CPU load is high. |
| 23:49.31 | lardman | though it might be worth writing an e.g. tremor decoder for the DSP to offload some CPU load while playing games or the like |
| 23:49.33 | lardman | etc |
| 23:49.45 | lardman | so yep, that too :) |
| 23:49.51 | AStorm | but that would require some extra comm between the kernel and the resampler/decoder |
| 23:50.07 | lardman | yes |
| 23:50.14 | javispedro | heh |
| 23:50.19 | javispedro | there you have a use case for pulseaudio |
| 23:50.20 | AStorm | simple cpu load check might be enough, but is not efficient |
| 23:50.28 | javispedro | automatically switching output device depending on cpu load |
| 23:50.34 | AStorm | yeah. |
| 23:50.35 | lardman | but less overhead than decoding the vorbis data and running the game engine on the ARM |
| 23:51.13 | AStorm | but a constant overhead. |
| 23:51.17 | lardman | it wouldn't be easy to do it on cpu load, not idea how a seamless transition could be made, but it could be done on an application level |
| 23:51.24 | javispedro | AStorm: if you know of a way to easily modify pulse to allow hw mixing let me know :) |
| 23:51.37 | javispedro | to *use hw mixing |
| 23:51.44 | javispedro | (more than to just "allow") |
| 23:51.47 | AStorm | hw mixing? as in using DSP? just have a resampler module. |
| 23:52.10 | javispedro | is that documented somewhere? :P |
| 23:52.17 | AStorm | pulse has a bunch of those already |
| 23:52.35 | javispedro | but I want to mix the streams myself, e.g. |
| 23:52.36 | AStorm | the one calling libspeex is fairly fast |
| 23:52.49 | javispedro | a "sink" that accepts multiple streams instead of a mixed single one |
| 23:53.10 | lardman | an inverse Tee :) |
| 23:53.14 | AStorm | hmmh, it does support that, like multiple outputs on one ALSA single multichannel one |
| 23:53.23 | javispedro | (well, come to think of it, I could make the resample module output audio and then a "shim" sink module) |
| 23:53.37 | lcuk | shudders |
| 23:54.06 | AStorm | *multiple stereo sinks on one ALSA multichannel output |
| 23:54.14 | javispedro | AStorm, yeah, but not the really the same |
| 23:54.29 | AStorm | really similar, you could make 32 channels like that |
| 23:54.30 | javispedro | it still mixes all apps's streams into one (composed of N channels) |
| 23:54.42 | AStorm | nope, it passes them to ALSA |
| 23:54.55 | javispedro | hm |
| 23:54.58 | AStorm | (unless resampling is required) |
| 23:55.00 | javispedro | I was reading the oss sink as sample |
| 23:55.10 | javispedro | guess I made a wrong decision :) |
| 23:55.11 | AStorm | OSS sink is a bit... simple :) |
| 23:56.11 | javispedro | if what you say is true my opinion of pulseaudio is going to change radically, for the better :) |
| 23:56.24 | AStorm | I can check it, why not |
| 23:56.40 | AStorm | still, is there some real hardware mixing in there? I don't think so |
| 23:57.11 | javispedro | AStorm: yeah, my 1999 laptop has two streams hw mixing |
| 23:57.21 | lcuk | ok javis |
| 23:57.22 | javispedro | (appearing to alsa as two sound cards, but I fixed that with a proper asound.conf) |
| 23:57.31 | lcuk | do we think this will all work if its just all pushed |
| 23:57.40 | AStorm | hm, let me check again :) I think pulse will use the hw mixing if available |
| 23:57.53 | AStorm | (until it fills the available mix channels) |
| 23:58.40 | AStorm | if not, we could extend it to do that |
| 23:58.41 | javispedro | lcuk, liqbase? what are your fears? |
| 23:59.08 | javispedro | AStorm, doing that is on my agenda, but I feared it required extensive changes |
| 23:59.15 | lardman | bed time |
| 23:59.17 | lardman | night all |
| 23:59.20 | javispedro | lardman, gnite! :) |
