| 00:08.50 | *** part/#maemo zerojay (n=zerojay@modemcable180.240-23-96.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 00:13.30 | *** join/#maemo ShellEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
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| 01:02.28 | Jaffa | Muwahahaha, not just contact photos; birthdays too! |
| 01:02.31 | Jaffa | Bed time now. |
| 01:02.42 | zerojayPC | ? |
| 01:03.18 | javispedro | fremantle contacts app I guess. |
| 01:03.22 | javispedro | cool :) |
| 01:04.36 | zerojayPC | Yeah, I saw birthdays listed there in some of the videos. |
| 01:05.04 | *** join/#maemo GAN8001 (n=GAN800@166.193.94.77) |
| 01:05.57 | zerojayPC | GeneralAntilles: Sup? |
| 01:33.20 | timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: birthdays suck |
| 01:33.31 | timeless_mbp | they're one way, and amazingly unintuitive |
| 01:39.48 | zerojayPC | One way? |
| 01:41.47 | *** join/#maemo comhack (n=comhack@unaffiliated/comhack) |
| 01:48.08 | johnx | would like the be able to un-birthday and re-birthday :) |
| 01:48.46 | zerojayPC | doesn't get it. |
| 01:49.39 | johnx | ah, my comment was unrelated to his |
| 01:49.42 | zerojayPC | doesn't get liqbase either, actually. |
| 01:50.11 | lcuk_user | http://liqbase.net/liqbase_river.php?username=lcuk |
| 01:50.15 | *** join/#maemo GAN800 (n=ryan@166.193.94.77) |
| 01:50.17 | lcuk_user | did i hear my name mentioned :P |
| 01:50.22 | zerojayPC | Heh. |
| 01:50.39 | zerojayPC | I just don't understand the program, honestly. |
| 01:51.03 | lcuk_user | you will :) |
| 01:51.50 | zerojayPC | Looking at the screenshots on your page, I have absolutely no clue what I'm even looking at, lol |
| 01:52.08 | lcuk_user | screenshots arent very indicative of liqbase |
| 01:52.22 | lcuk_user | they only tell a very small snapshot of whats there at the moment |
| 01:52.33 | zerojayPC | I felt the same way using it on my n810. |
| 01:52.42 | johnx | zerojayPC, a lot of those are screenshots of screens full of individual items |
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| 01:53.09 | lcuk_user | individual apps |
| 01:53.20 | lcuk_user | completely customizable and installable standalone |
| 01:53.23 | johnx | lcuk_user, BTW, your UI designs are growing on me, but you need to work a little on color coordination :P |
| 01:53.31 | lcuk_user | and you can select what you see |
| 01:53.36 | lcuk_user | lol yeah i know |
| 01:53.46 | lcuk_user | that will be dealt with tomorrow |
| 01:54.06 | johnx | ah. that's really good turn around time on bug reports :D |
| 01:54.25 | lcuk_user | cos i already said in #liqbase it was what i was gonna do |
| 01:54.32 | lcuk_user | my last bit of code before i go on my trip |
| 01:55.09 | lcuk_user | you noticed latest screenshots - im not bound to a grid anymore |
| 01:55.20 | lcuk_user | its got physics view from original liqbase :) |
| 01:55.25 | lcuk_user | i can resize anything |
| 01:55.30 | lcuk_user | and the others jostle |
| 01:55.42 | lcuk_user | im gonna allow saving these positions |
| 01:55.45 | zerojayPC | lcuk_user: I mean no disrespect in any way, by the way... it's just such a strange program. |
| 01:55.51 | lcuk_user | so - like now, the map is bigger |
| 01:56.14 | lcuk_user | zerojayPC, and none is taken - there are a number of people who think im mad |
| 01:56.15 | lcuk_user | :) |
| 01:56.23 | lcuk_user | my ex-boss being one of them |
| 01:56.27 | zerojayPC | lcuk_user: Sort of like walking into an art gallery and seeing a plate of speghetti and salad thrown against the wall when I look at it.. lol |
| 01:56.48 | lcuk_user | you are only seeing what i can create |
| 01:56.56 | lcuk_user | look paste the current wallpaper |
| 01:57.06 | johnx | zerojayPC, but a plate of spaghetti and a salad that's finger friendly and in a strange color scheme and shows maps if you poke it right :D |
| 01:57.11 | lcuk_user | and into what it could become in the hands of graphic artists and ui designers |
| 01:57.34 | ShellEvil | lcuk_user: At this rate - when do you figure on a polished OS - next friday? |
| 01:57.45 | lcuk_user | i dont |
| 01:57.58 | lcuk_user | i have no way to complete this for about 10 years |
| 01:58.07 | lcuk_user | but i will continue to :) |
| 01:58.35 | zerojayPC | johnx: i just don't understand why though. Kind of feels like a program started to try one or two things and then had a ton of stuff tacked on here or there that weren't added for any reason other than because the app was already stable/usable. |
| 01:59.10 | lcuk_user | zerojayPC, i have built liqbase up from bare bytes |
| 01:59.17 | zerojayPC | It's neat in its own way... I'm just trying to get a grip on it. lol |
| 01:59.19 | lcuk_user | it was not capable of anything then |
| 01:59.27 | johnx | zerojayPC, it's called "scratching an itch" |
| 01:59.56 | lcuk_user | its a pretty damned big itch tho :$ |
| 02:00.07 | zerojayPC | I can't think of an itch that would have all this in there, lol |
| 02:00.32 | zerojayPC | But hey... as long as you're enjoying making it, have fun. :) |
| 02:00.44 | johnx | zerojayPC, have you not met lcuk_user in person. he seems like a very itchy guy |
| 02:00.51 | zerojayPC | lol. |
| 02:00.55 | johnx | s/./?/ |
| 02:00.56 | zerojayPC | Maybe at Summit. |
| 02:01.26 | ShellEvil | You can tell who he is easily. He's the one wearing roller-skates, and sliding everywhere. |
| 02:01.41 | zerojayPC | You'll be able to tell who I am pretty easily too. |
| 02:01.51 | zerojayPC | Maemo's biggest fan.. quite literally, I'm sure. lol |
| 02:02.24 | zerojayPC | Well, if I get my passport on time to go anyways. |
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| 02:25.39 | GeneralAntilles | zerojayPC, patiently awaiting Monday and a call from the Apple CR guy. . . . |
| 02:42.20 | *** join/#maemo Electric_Poison (n=Electrik@71-209-8-124.bois.qwest.net) |
| 02:42.38 | Electric_Poison | hi |
| 02:43.12 | Electric_Poison | im trying to compile gtk-gnutella for maemo |
| 02:43.41 | Electric_Poison | but make is not available... im stilla a linux noob... do i need the maemo sdk or something? |
| 02:44.13 | johnx | are you trying to compile it on the device itself or on your desktop? |
| 02:44.23 | Electric_Poison | device itself |
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| 02:44.41 | johnx | that's not really possible |
| 02:44.44 | Electric_Poison | it needs to compile for omap right? |
| 02:44.50 | Electric_Poison | ...oh... :/ |
| 02:44.55 | johnx | yup |
| 02:45.11 | johnx | so grab the maemo sdk, install it on your computer and try from there |
| 02:45.14 | johnx | might be a little tricky though |
| 02:45.15 | zerojay | Happy sdk time. |
| 02:45.45 | Electric_Poison | ive never used sdk's... damn... im too used to ubuntu's easyness |
| 02:45.58 | johnx | though if you're not picky about which P2P program, I think there's a couple out there |
| 02:46.10 | johnx | probably nicotine+ |
| 02:46.12 | Electric_Poison | ive only seen one for gnutella |
| 02:46.21 | zerojay | Shocked people still use gnutella. |
| 02:46.39 | Electric_Poison | meh. i prefer bitorrent |
| 02:47.00 | Electric_Poison | but gnutella still has its own uses |
| 02:47.59 | johnx | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/nicotine/ |
| 02:48.02 | johnx | give that a try |
| 02:49.23 | Electric_Poison | thanks |
| 02:50.05 | johnx | and a bittorrent client too |
| 02:50.07 | Electric_Poison | the maemo downloads list is kinda poor on maemo.org... not very well kept up |
| 02:50.09 | johnx | called transmission |
| 02:50.15 | Electric_Poison | i use transmission |
| 02:50.25 | Electric_Poison | simple and easy |
| 02:50.28 | johnx | "not very well kept up"? hmm? |
| 02:50.40 | johnx | it's updated with all the packages in extra I believe |
| 02:50.41 | Electric_Poison | well the downloads area is kinda meh |
| 02:50.52 | Electric_Poison | the missing .install ones...? |
| 02:51.32 | Electric_Poison | soulseek... |
| 02:51.35 | johnx | well, there's two sources of info there I think: 1) things in extras and 2) people adding entries for their own apps |
| 02:51.53 | johnx | everything in extras should have a .install |
| 02:51.55 | Electric_Poison | oh |
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| 02:52.08 | johnx | as far as I know that is |
| 02:52.09 | Electric_Poison | well i have like 50 repos... lol |
| 02:52.14 | johnx | ah |
| 02:52.19 | johnx | that can cause problems ... |
| 02:52.27 | Electric_Poison | i found a site with 'add all repos' |
| 02:52.38 | Electric_Poison | it takes forever to refresh now lol |
| 02:52.48 | zerojay | Glad we won't have to deal with a ton of repos anymore. |
| 02:53.04 | Electric_Poison | i have disabled alot |
| 02:53.26 | Electric_Poison | ughhh my right thumb is sprained |
| 02:53.35 | Electric_Poison | this sucks! |
| 02:53.36 | johnx | yeah, the general rule is: don't add a repo besides extras unless you need to, and only activate it long enough to get the app installed |
| 02:53.55 | Electric_Poison | i leave extras devel off |
| 02:54.02 | johnx | definitely a good choice |
| 02:54.05 | Electric_Poison | yeah |
| 02:54.37 | Electric_Poison | does the n8x0 have a cpu throttler or shutdown when temp is too hot behavior? |
| 02:54.59 | Electric_Poison | cause omweather siad it was 145 F in my tabby today and im kinda worried |
| 02:55.05 | johnx | the CPU won't get hot enough to be a problem |
| 02:55.15 | Electric_Poison | ^ |
| 02:55.20 | johnx | is it really hot where you are? |
| 02:55.35 | johnx | but yeah, I think it has some type of emergency thermal shutdown |
| 02:55.48 | Electric_Poison | well i left in my car for a bit... it took longer than expected |
| 02:55.56 | Electric_Poison | at someones house |
| 02:56.01 | johnx | haven't heard of anyone hitting that while using it anywhere close to the suggested operating temperatures |
| 02:56.16 | Electric_Poison | and i got back and its like 145 and im like whoooo... |
| 02:56.29 | Electric_Poison | ive got 130 on running... no higher |
| 02:56.53 | Electric_Poison | but thats using vagalume overnight when its laying on the bed or floor |
| 03:08.24 | Electric_Poison | is the smeh |
| 03:08.30 | Electric_Poison | err* |
| 03:08.55 | Electric_Poison | is there any gnutella network ones...? not soulseek |
| 03:09.15 | Electric_Poison | or am i just wishful thinking |
| 03:11.02 | johnx | someone compiled gtk-gnutella at one point in 2007 |
| 03:11.09 | johnx | probably won't even connect to the network now |
| 03:11.21 | zerojay | Not to my knowledge, but feel free to port it, |
| 03:11.33 | Electric_Poison | yeah i saw it |
| 03:12.01 | johnx | and if you're new to linux ... well you could give it a shot, but it's probably not going to be exactly easy |
| 03:12.40 | Electric_Poison | ive never programmed anything for linux |
| 03:12.51 | Electric_Poison | im not new to linux... its just im learning it |
| 03:13.03 | Electric_Poison | ive used ubuntu for over a year (sparingly) |
| 03:13.29 | Electric_Poison | i dont know c or c++... i should learn one <_< |
| 03:14.30 | johnx | well, it's mostly not the programming so much as dealing with mismatched versions of dependencies |
| 03:15.01 | Electric_Poison | lol... dependencies are annoying... |
| 03:15.22 | Electric_Poison | hildonizing it too |
| 03:15.38 | Electric_Poison | which im not sure what it means... something with the gui |
| 03:15.59 | johnx | it's a general term that comes down to: making it look and act nice on a tablet |
| 03:16.22 | Electric_Poison | ah |
| 03:16.28 | Electric_Poison | so 800x480 |
| 03:16.42 | johnx | and moving the menu up the that little menu popdown |
| 03:16.55 | johnx | and making the fonts/buttons the right size |
| 03:17.07 | johnx | and preventing it from wasting space in stupid ways |
| 03:17.46 | Electric_Poison | lol... |
| 03:18.16 | Electric_Poison | i wish canolas last.fm lpugin worked :/ vagalumenuses an insane amount of resources |
| 03:18.22 | Electric_Poison | uses* |
| 03:18.45 | johnx | you think that somehow canola will use less resources than vagalume? |
| 03:19.01 | Electric_Poison | no lol |
| 03:19.07 | Electric_Poison | i know canola uses more |
| 03:19.08 | Electric_Poison | but |
| 03:19.17 | Electric_Poison | i can switch easily and stuff |
| 03:19.28 | Electric_Poison | plus it has a decent interface |
| 03:19.34 | Electric_Poison | vagalume is fugly |
| 03:20.23 | johnx | I think canola's last.fm works for me |
| 03:20.31 | johnx | not sure though |
| 03:21.11 | Electric_Poison | mine always says network error :/ |
| 03:21.25 | Electric_Poison | and my network is fine |
| 03:24.14 | Electric_Poison | anyways! |
| 03:24.41 | Electric_Poison | i cant get aireplay to work... :/ with my external wifi adapter <_< |
| 03:25.01 | johnx | no ideas there |
| 03:25.09 | Electric_Poison | oh. |
| 03:25.14 | johnx | I don't think many people have bothered with data plans being so cheap |
| 03:25.23 | Electric_Poison | i tried to follow the instructions and probes dont work |
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| 03:32.20 | Stskeeps | moooo |
| 03:32.38 | Stskeeps | last morning in .dk for me in a long while. |
| 03:34.22 | johnx | how long? |
| 03:34.35 | Electric_Poison | data plans in the us arent cheap |
| 03:34.57 | Electric_Poison | here in the us we get totally screwed |
| 03:35.06 | johnx | depends on your provider, but with a bit of ingenuity they get downright reasonable ;) |
| 03:35.18 | Electric_Poison | ingenuity? |
| 03:35.24 | Electric_Poison | explain :P |
| 03:35.31 | johnx | t-mobile t-zones for $10/mo |
| 03:35.46 | Electric_Poison | hm |
| 03:35.56 | Electric_Poison | is there a cap on data? |
| 03:36.02 | johnx | dunno |
| 03:36.19 | johnx | technically you're really not supposed to be tethering with it |
| 03:36.24 | Electric_Poison | cause for 5 hours ive done 300 meg... and i havent downloaded a bunch |
| 03:36.40 | Electric_Poison | just irc pidgin, a lil web browsing |
| 03:36.55 | johnx | i played last.fm over it, but not for very long |
| 03:37.13 | johnx | anyways: howardforums.com |
| 03:37.20 | johnx | I'm off for some dinner while mplayer recompiles |
| 03:37.26 | Electric_Poison | ok |
| 03:37.39 | Electric_Poison | im figuring out how metal blob solid works |
| 03:42.48 | zerojay | You think your us data plans suck, lol |
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| 03:43.00 | zerojay | Come to canada. |
| 03:43.14 | zerojay | We're begging for us data plans. |
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| 03:46.33 | MaceN8x0 | wow, i will gicve the G1 ine thing, it sure has a far wifi tethering range |
| 03:46.52 | MaceN8x0 | wish i could set it up as an ap rather than an adhoc |
| 04:06.40 | *** join/#maemo smackpotato (n=user@bas4-sudbury98-1279295317.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 04:07.50 | smackpotato | how many discounted n900 are there to go around |
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| 04:17.24 | GeneralAntilles | smackpotato, no discount program has been announced. |
| 04:18.22 | zerojay | If there's gonna be one announced, i'd imagine it would be at summit. |
| 04:18.49 | zerojay | Or just before. |
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| 04:42.47 | MaceN8x0 | hm |
| 04:43.00 | Electric_Poison | mh |
| 04:43.01 | MaceN8x0 | raising the bar was kind of depressing |
| 04:43.07 | Electric_Poison | eh? |
| 04:43.37 | MaceN8x0 | awesome show |
| 04:43.49 | MaceN8x0 | even if will weaton is in it |
| 04:43.54 | Electric_Poison | um... |
| 04:43.55 | Electric_Poison | ok |
| 04:44.08 | Electric_Poison | dunno that show |
| 04:46.00 | zerojay | You aren't the only one. |
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| 05:12.14 | johnx | RST38h, I think at some point you mumbled something about HTC producing one Android handset to not be a terribly big deal |
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| 05:37.14 | GeneralAntilles | Man, talk about braindead moves. http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/05/nokia-x6-video-hands-on-proof-that-capacitive-touchscreens-are/ |
| 05:37.22 | GeneralAntilles | Engadget is going downhill fast. |
| 05:38.16 | johnx | going downhill because they like capacitive screens? |
| 05:39.46 | *** join/#maemo madhav (n=Administ@122.172.5.44) |
| 05:39.46 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, because the snark has just become spite. |
| 05:40.04 | GeneralAntilles | It's not funny, it's just pitiable. |
| 05:40.18 | johnx | not really getting the same thing out of it, but whatever |
| 05:40.32 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, it's been a trend |
| 05:40.33 | johnx | also: keep in mind they have lots of copy writers |
| 05:40.39 | GeneralAntilles | Plus Chris's comments in the comments |
| 05:40.45 | GeneralAntilles | They need Ryan Block back. |
| 05:41.06 | johnx | oh god. you read engadget comments? |
| 05:41.24 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, sometimes when I'm bored or need a reality check. |
| 05:41.48 | johnx | engadget comments makes slashdot look like a freaking nobel convention |
| 05:41.51 | *** join/#maemo fernand0 (i=fernand0@190.69.218.43) |
| 05:42.01 | GeneralAntilles | But right now I need to stop looking at the Mac Pro pages and sleep. |
| 05:42.07 | *** join/#maemo vladovg (n=vladooo@91.139.148.54) |
| 05:42.20 | vladovg | hi |
| 05:42.24 | vladovg | and good morning |
| 05:42.26 | johnx | GeneralAntilles, 'night. good luck with your Mac |
| 05:42.36 | johnx | mornin' vladovg |
| 05:42.52 | GeneralAntilles | Thanks! |
| 05:42.56 | vladovg | have a quston |
| 05:43.34 | vladovg | did Palm emulator works on diablo 43-7 |
| 05:43.47 | johnx | I think it did/does |
| 05:44.06 | vladovg | ay cannot find it |
| 05:44.19 | vladovg | onli for 2007 OS |
| 05:45.02 | *** join/#maemo fernand0_ (i=fernand0@190.69.218.43) |
| 05:45.33 | vladovg | working with Palm OS over a 10 yars from now and its greath to have it on 810 |
| 05:45.46 | vladovg | but |
| 05:45.55 | vladovg | kan faind it |
| 05:46.15 | johnx | http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/ |
| 05:46.42 | vladovg | amaising |
| 05:46.44 | RST38h | moo all |
| 05:46.46 | vladovg | thanks a loth |
| 05:47.06 | johnx | m00f RST38h :) |
| 05:47.34 | johnx | :) |
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| 07:26.36 | MaceN8x0 | hm |
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| 07:39.40 | guysoft4222 | hey, my pidgin on my Nokia N810 seems to boot up, then after a few seconds of connecting, it closes with the shell message "aborted:\ |
| 07:40.50 | zerojayPC | I've had the same issue on my PC. |
| 07:41.10 | guysoft4222 | zerojayPC: what did you do? |
| 07:41.37 | brbrbr | try another Pidgin build(porbably older one ;) |
| 07:41.41 | zerojayPC | Nothing since I almost never use Pidgin for anything anyways. :) |
| 07:42.11 | guysoft4222 | zerojayPC: is it still like that?? |
| 07:42.11 | guysoft4222 | :-/ |
| 07:42.15 | Captain_Picard | any real good games for Maemo 5 |
| 07:42.18 | Captain_Picard | ? |
| 07:42.23 | zerojayPC | Anyways, because I saw on it my PC, I'm sure there's more than a few people complaining about this on their forums. I would check out their site. |
| 07:42.27 | zerojayPC | guysoft4222: Haven't a clue. |
| 07:42.32 | zerojayPC | Captain_Picard: Bounce. |
| 07:42.38 | Captain_Picard | zerojayPC: already playd it |
| 07:42.52 | Captain_Picard | zerojayPC: at flagship store in helsinki!? |
| 07:43.04 | zerojayPC | Try playing Quake 3. |
| 07:43.13 | Captain_Picard | does not exist :( |
| 07:43.26 | zerojayPC | Quake 3 doesn't exist? lol |
| 07:43.32 | Captain_Picard | for maempo |
| 07:43.43 | zerojayPC | Half of the Nokia guys are talking about playing on their N900s. |
| 07:43.59 | zerojayPC | Maybe there's not a public port of it yet. |
| 07:44.13 | zerojayPC | But you can probably compile a lot of the games at happypenguin for the N900. |
| 07:44.35 | Captain_Picard | well doesnt have directx support |
| 07:44.38 | Captain_Picard | :\ |
| 07:44.44 | RST38h | And then suddenly find out you have no controls. |
| 07:44.50 | Captain_Picard | lol |
| 07:44.57 | zerojayPC | Why would the games on happy penguin use directx? |
| 07:44.57 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=rsalveti@189.70.59.1) |
| 07:46.10 | zerojayPC | http://happypenguin.org/show?SuperTuxKart - sweet |
| 07:46.29 | RST38h | Screw DirectX, N900 has no full OpenGL either. Will have to add a wrapper around OGLES |
| 07:47.53 | zerojayPC | Pandora seems to use the same version of OpenGL ES. |
| 07:48.37 | RST38h | Has Pandora been released? =) |
| 07:48.56 | zerojayPC | Even if it hasn't been released, some of the apps made for it already have been. |
| 07:51.01 | zerojayPC | Heh.. thread on the Pandora forums about Mer being an alternative to Maemo. |
| 07:52.01 | zerojayPC | People there are discussing running Maemo on Pandora. |
| 07:52.55 | slonopotamus | why not |
| 07:53.56 | johnx | zerojay, I've been talking about that since before "Mer" existed :P |
| 07:54.22 | Captain_Picard | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsclXxxjxVg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openpandora.org%2Fblog.php&feature=player_embedded#t=75. |
| 07:54.25 | Captain_Picard | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsclXxxjxVg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openpandora.org%2Fblog.php&feature=player_embedded#t=75 |
| 07:54.29 | Captain_Picard | looks terrible :D |
| 07:55.11 | zerojayPC | Captain_Picard: Uh... it does? |
| 07:55.18 | Captain_Picard | yeh ;\ |
| 07:55.32 | johnx | the device or the way the same runs on it? |
| 07:55.40 | RST38h | johnx: btw, where is Karel? He was so upbeat about Pandora... |
| 07:55.46 | zerojayPC | Only thing that looks terrible in that video is the quality of the video capture itself. |
| 07:55.47 | Captain_Picard | btw can i get bigger resolution using the tv-output on n900? |
| 07:56.00 | zerojayPC | 480i/480p max. |
| 07:56.07 | zerojayPC | I think. |
| 07:56.07 | Captain_Picard | sad ;P |
| 07:56.07 | johnx | RST38h, heh, well, he deserves to disappointed with how much he deluded himself |
| 07:56.16 | Captain_Picard | would be nice with 720p |
| 07:56.17 | zerojayPC | Whatever happened to him anyways? |
| 07:56.20 | Captain_Picard | hdmi |
| 07:56.21 | Captain_Picard | :D |
| 07:56.41 | zerojayPC | He must have disappeared while I was too busy to be around the forums. |
| 07:57.05 | johnx | Captain_Picard, you won't get two digital hi-res outputs out of a omap3 I think |
| 07:57.45 | Captain_Picard | isee |
| 07:57.51 | Captain_Picard | wait for omap4 then! |
| 07:57.58 | johnx | you can |
| 07:58.06 | johnx | :) |
| 07:58.52 | Captain_Picard | http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/17/tis-omap-4-bringing-1080p-support-to-smartphones-and-mids/ |
| 07:59.09 | RST38h | ok, pandora status says they are still 'building test device to check that everything is ok" |
| 07:59.09 | Captain_Picard | Right around this time last year, Texas Instruments was busy showing off its OMAP 3 platform, which enabled 720p playback from a mobile phone. |
| 07:59.44 | Summeli | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERK6ETRytFM You should be able to get 720p from omap3 |
| 08:00.01 | Captain_Picard | yeh but not videoout |
| 08:00.08 | Captain_Picard | oh |
| 08:00.08 | Captain_Picard | :P |
| 08:00.27 | vladovg | hi again |
| 08:00.31 | Summeli | the beagleboard has hdmi connector too |
| 08:00.33 | Captain_Picard | ok so its nokias fault |
| 08:00.39 | vladovg | did some one play with GarnetVM |
| 08:00.43 | Summeli | yeah, stupid nokia |
| 08:00.56 | Captain_Picard | thats sad :) |
| 08:01.00 | Captain_Picard | they could added hdmi ;P |
| 08:01.05 | johnx | RST38h, they're working on the final case mould (sp?) right now I think. They have 100 or so test boards. Not exactly moving fast, but still moving |
| 08:01.38 | johnx | Captain_Picard, if they did that they would have had to hook up the internal LCD to a lowres analog out |
| 08:01.47 | johnx | go look up an OMAP3 hardware diagram |
| 08:01.50 | vladovg | how can ay set up the device hotsync ID |
| 08:02.10 | johnx | vladovg, sorry, but I have no idea. did you already look at talk.maemo.org? |
| 08:02.19 | vladovg | yes |
| 08:02.35 | vladovg | :) |
| 08:02.57 | vladovg | ay set up the ID to desktop hotsynk |
| 08:03.01 | Captain_Picard | http://embedded-system.net/ti-omap-4-open-multimedia-application-platform-for-mobile-applications.html |
| 08:03.05 | johnx | so you saw the thread on setting a hotsync ID? |
| 08:03.15 | vladovg | but in the device is not set |
| 08:03.23 | vladovg | yes |
| 08:03.53 | vladovg | but is for the desktop it not set up the device ID |
| 08:04.14 | *** join/#maemo guysoft4222 (i=5dad9972@gateway/web/freenode/x-bvwbvststzfvbejz) |
| 08:04.36 | vladovg | ./gvm --hotsyncid="My HotSync Name:1234" |
| 08:04.45 | guysoft4222 | zerojayPC: he, hey, what did you say? i got knoked off the net |
| 08:04.54 | vladovg | found this but it sems to noth work for my |
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| 08:14.11 | zerojayPC | guysoft4222: Anyways, because I saw on it my PC, I'm sure there's more than a few people complaining about this on their forums. I would check out their site. |
| 08:22.05 | MaceN8x0 | do kernel level vendor specific fb drivers initialize co processors? |
| 08:22.37 | johnx | define "co processors" |
| 08:23.01 | MaceN8x0 | 3d accel |
| 08:23.06 | johnx | I'd imagine they'd need to do whatever was necessary to get a framebuffer initialized that the kernel could write into |
| 08:23.45 | johnx | only if the 3d processor was required to have any kind of framebuffer I'd imagine |
| 08:23.54 | MaceN8x0 | i am just wondering if a video card... |
| 08:24.14 | MaceN8x0 | could be fully initialized and accelerated at init |
| 08:24.33 | MaceN8x0 | instead of being reinitialized by an app (X) |
| 08:25.05 | johnx | might be worth looking at directfb |
| 08:25.05 | johnx | that's there idea I think |
| 08:25.07 | johnx | but why the lack of love for X? |
| 08:25.41 | MaceN8x0 | no reason just curious |
| 08:26.10 | johnx | yeah, I think directfb might have had 3D support for some card at some point, but I might be wrong |
| 08:26.23 | MaceN8x0 | but i was just wondering if X could be avoided to initialize a fully accelerated card |
| 08:26.34 | MaceN8x0 | from kernelspace |
| 08:26.37 | johnx | yeah, if you wrote your own drivers and display system |
| 08:26.38 | johnx | sure |
| 08:27.05 | johnx | but then, linux could be avoided to, as well as libc :) |
| 08:27.53 | MaceN8x0 | haha |
| 08:28.18 | johnx | but there's no good reason to not go through X11 even if the only app you're running is openGL |
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| 08:40.16 | *** join/#maemo carboncopy (n=carbonco@85.0.111.218.kmr02-home.tm.net.my) |
| 08:40.24 | carboncopy | hello |
| 08:40.41 | johnx | allo |
| 08:44.28 | carboncopy | oh response |
| 08:44.29 | carboncopy | great |
| 08:44.34 | carboncopy | i have a n800 |
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| 08:45.05 | johnx | me too :) |
| 08:46.29 | carboncopy | its almost impossible to get mine charged now |
| 08:46.42 | carboncopy | the DC port |
| 08:46.47 | carboncopy | is loose :( |
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| 08:47.20 | johnx | do you think it's the port on the device or the tip of the charger? |
| 08:47.38 | carboncopy | i have changed a few charger |
| 08:47.42 | carboncopy | its all the same |
| 08:47.56 | carboncopy | and the same charger can charge the N810 with no issue |
| 08:47.57 | johnx | ouch :( |
| 08:48.05 | carboncopy | yuh |
| 08:48.08 | carboncopy | real ouch |
| 08:48.21 | carboncopy | do you think Nokia will fix it for me? |
| 08:48.21 | carboncopy | :D |
| 08:48.38 | johnx | for the right price, sure |
| 08:48.38 | johnx | how's your soldering? :) |
| 08:48.46 | carboncopy | very very rusty |
| 08:48.58 | carboncopy | and i do not have soldering iron for SMD |
| 08:49.38 | carboncopy | hopefully the PCB pads are still intact |
| 08:49.58 | carboncopy | is there a dis-assembly manual out there? |
| 08:50.10 | johnx | hmm |
| 08:50.22 | carboncopy | i can actually bring it to a electronic repair shops to get it solder back if i can dis-assemble it |
| 08:51.40 | zerojayPC | NO DISASSEMBLE! |
| 08:52.01 | zerojayPC | DISASSEMBLE = DEAD! |
| 08:52.20 | carboncopy | oh |
| 08:52.25 | carboncopy | oh no |
| 08:52.37 | carboncopy | so i got to buy a charging port for the battery? |
| 08:52.40 | carboncopy | :( |
| 08:52.46 | carboncopy | if that exist |
| 08:52.56 | zerojayPC | lol.. I was just making a Short Circuit joke, that's all. |
| 08:53.05 | johnx | carboncopy, he's making a reference to the movie 'short circuit' :) |
| 08:53.06 | johnx | but, I think someone rewired it to charge off of USB |
| 08:53.24 | carboncopy | oh.. cool |
| 08:53.26 | johnx | there were pics up for a while, but I think they're down now |
| 08:54.25 | carboncopy | 07-21-2007, 10:26 PM |
| 08:54.26 | carboncopy | So I was recharging my lovely n800, when the cable got yanked and thus broke the power jack inside (power cable is wobbley when plugged in). |
| 08:54.30 | carboncopy | that is exactly my case |
| 08:54.33 | carboncopy | wobbley |
| 08:54.35 | carboncopy | :( |
| 08:54.44 | carboncopy | from the guy who rewire to charge from USB |
| 08:55.47 | johnx | yeah, I'm lucky. I dropped it while charging but it broke my charger, not my n800 |
| 08:56.03 | carboncopy | :( |
| 08:56.15 | carboncopy | i actually dropped the n800 more than once while charging |
| 08:56.18 | carboncopy | sigh |
| 08:56.58 | carboncopy | it comes with the manly SD instead of the Mini SD port on n810 |
| 08:57.05 | johnx | yeah, the charger tip is the part that always worried me the most |
| 08:57.34 | johnx | I liked the size of the PSP/Zaurus charger better |
| 08:58.29 | carboncopy | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=7936&highlight=usb+charge |
| 08:58.36 | carboncopy | if am reading that page correctly |
| 08:59.02 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=slonopot@83.149.9.110) |
| 08:59.04 | carboncopy | by default the tablet gets charged when USB is plugged to the machine or charger? |
| 09:03.45 | johnx | that's about using a usb-a -> nokia-mini-dc charging cable I think |
| 09:04.03 | johnx | so, power comes from the PC into the Nokia's mini-dc jack |
| 09:05.34 | carboncopy | ohh :) |
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| 09:16.11 | zerojayPC | Apparently Danny Devito joined Twitter. |
| 09:16.17 | zerojayPC | And his profile pic...lol |
| 09:16.19 | zerojayPC | http://imgur.com/z45uZ.jpg |
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| 09:25.35 | vladovg | zerojayPC |
| 09:25.38 | vladovg | hahaha |
| 09:27.16 | aquatix | oh wow :) |
| 09:28.38 | johnx | O_o; |
| 09:30.29 | MaceN8x0 | http://liquidat.wordpress.com/2007/07/21/linux-kernel-2623-to-have-stable-userspace-driver-api/ |
| 09:30.38 | MaceN8x0 | heh |
| 09:31.01 | MaceN8x0 | they didnt have a userspace driver api before? |
| 09:31.11 | MaceN8x0 | or was it unstable? |
| 09:32.34 | johnx | MaceN8x0, the article you linked: did you, by chance, read it? |
| 09:33.28 | zerojayPC | lol |
| 09:35.11 | MaceN8x0 | why? |
| 09:35.21 | slonopotamus | userspace api is stable for a very long time |
| 09:35.26 | MaceN8x0 | it was announced a year before the article |
| 09:35.28 | MaceN8x0 | 2006 |
| 09:35.53 | MaceN8x0 | just thought a stable driver userspace api was older than that |
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| 09:36.42 | johnx | a 'userspace' driver API, nah, 2006 sounds about right |
| 09:37.09 | johnx | which of course is explained in the article linked from text 'a year ago' in the article you linked |
| 09:38.04 | MaceN8x0 | announced but not available til 2007? |
| 09:38.16 | *** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman) |
| 09:38.38 | MaceN8x0 | anyways, i have to head to another place |
| 09:38.52 | MaceN8x0 | blah |
| 09:38.57 | MaceN8x0 | i will go there tomorrow |
| 09:39.05 | johnx | I don't actually know but it seems to talk about it pretty extensively in the article ... |
| 09:39.11 | johnx | is trying to get out of the 'reading things for people' business |
| 09:39.24 | MaceN8x0 | hahaha |
| 09:39.52 | MaceN8x0 | i was just looking for kernelspace video driver information |
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| 09:40.12 | MaceN8x0 | directfb seems to still be after init |
| 09:40.36 | MaceN8x0 | bbl |
| 09:41.19 | MaceN8x0 | considering my search led me to userspace driver information.... |
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| 10:31.17 | RST38h | Ari Jaaksi explains how long way to go Maemo has to mass market =) |
| 10:31.52 | zerojayPC | He does? |
| 10:32.12 | RST38h | Yea |
| 10:32.28 | RST38h | top of http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/ |
| 10:33.20 | RST38h | Weird, weird feeling... Jaaksi is almost talking the interviewer out of buying n900 |
| 10:33.44 | AStorm | the question is... why? ;p |
| 10:33.56 | johnx | I think they're worried about getting too much attention of mainstream users before they feel they're "ready" |
| 10:33.56 | RST38h | Yea, that is the $65536 question |
| 10:34.05 | AStorm | is he getting paid by the Symbian part of Nokia? |
| 10:34.12 | RST38h | May it be the famed Finnish modesty? =) |
| 10:34.13 | zerojayPC | I didn't really get that impression when I saw the video. |
| 10:34.32 | AStorm | yeah, the video was ok |
| 10:34.37 | RST38h | Or unwillingness to upset Symbian gods at Nokia? |
| 10:34.48 | AStorm | heh |
| 10:35.02 | zerojayPC | Considering how much attention the N900 got at NW... far too late for that! lol |
| 10:35.08 | AStorm | or Nokia is preferring Symbian since they hope to make $$$ out of it? |
| 10:35.11 | RST38h | zerojay: Look at the segment where interviewer compares n900 with crackberry and says that it should be the n97 |
| 10:37.35 | univac | crackberry? |
| 10:37.41 | AStorm | hmm, it seems that N900 is like 4G LTE ;P now at about HSPA phase |
| 10:38.13 | zerojayPC | Starting to think that they didn't expect the N900 to get the reaction it did get. |
| 10:38.35 | RST38h | Yea |
| 10:38.45 | RST38h | Wasn't part of the plan at this stage |
| 10:38.58 | RST38h | At least for the higher-ups |
| 10:39.44 | AStorm | hahaha |
| 10:40.03 | AStorm | now it's all up to whether they'll keep up with demand... if there is one |
| 10:40.11 | RST38h | Will see... |
| 10:41.05 | RST38h | It is actually funny to see how poor Jaaksi finds ways out when asked questions he cannot answer without stepping on other people's feet |
| 10:43.51 | AStorm | I wonder what will be in Harmattan |
| 10:43.59 | AStorm | except some new Qt UI |
| 10:46.34 | AStorm | "OpenOffice on Maemo" yeah sure right ;) |
| 10:46.58 | zerojayPC | Why not? |
| 10:47.20 | AStorm | not enough RAM |
| 10:47.35 | zerojayPC | You don't think 1GB is enough RAM? |
| 10:47.42 | RST38h | How do I startup Fremantle UI in SDK+? |
| 10:47.43 | AStorm | which device has 1G |
| 10:48.02 | SpeedEvil | zerojay: 256 surely |
| 10:48.05 | SpeedEvil | And lies. |
| 10:48.08 | qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: Use SB1 |
| 10:48.13 | SpeedEvil | (swap!=ra) |
| 10:48.15 | zerojayPC | N900 has up to 1GB available when you include the 768 or whatever of swap. |
| 10:48.31 | SpeedEvil | Is the n900 using anything clever for swap? |
| 10:48.50 | SpeedEvil | Have there been kernel patches to properly swap onto flash? |
| 10:48.50 | zerojayPC | I was able to run OpenOffice on my N810 through EasyDeb, so... I don't see how it's impossible to run on the N900. |
| 10:48.50 | AStorm | It'd be nice if they happened to use compcache |
| 10:48.52 | SpeedEvil | raw flash |
| 10:49.01 | SpeedEvil | Is the 32 |
| 10:49.24 | SpeedEvil | G that's in there raw NAND flash - or is it a SD or something soldered on |
| 10:49.38 | RST38h | qwerty: screw sb1 |
| 10:49.42 | AStorm | I think it's one of those Samsung MMC chips |
| 10:49.48 | AStorm | like in N810 |
| 10:49.59 | AStorm | but I don't have any real info |
| 10:50.24 | SpeedEvil | (you can do performance enhancing stuff for swap better in principle with raw flash) |
| 10:50.44 | AStorm | sure, you can, if you patch the kernel |
| 10:50.53 | AStorm | I haven't seen any swapper patches around |
| 10:51.14 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: have you seen the swap-on-flash thing I posted earlier? |
| 10:51.17 | SpeedEvil | paper |
| 10:51.22 | AStorm | yeah, and it's just a paper |
| 10:51.28 | SpeedEvil | I agree. |
| 10:51.33 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 10:51.45 | AStorm | also, hard to implement in Linux |
| 10:52.00 | SpeedEvil | hasn't properly woken up - please slighty excuse stupid questions until I do. |
| 10:52.27 | SpeedEvil | yeah - you need to create a parallel path for swap to soe degree not going through the normal block path |
| 10:52.38 | SpeedEvil | My limited knowledge says. |
| 10:53.27 | AStorm | my knowledge says - implement a wear-levelling layer as a device-mapper plugin |
| 10:53.41 | AStorm | and do swap on top of this |
| 10:54.13 | SpeedEvil | Wear leveling isn't so much the issue |
| 10:54.18 | SpeedEvil | or ratehr - it's a side issue |
| 10:54.31 | AStorm | the real issue is the block size |
| 10:54.50 | SpeedEvil | you want a swap subsystem that writes in a circular buffer as much as possible with defragmentation |
| 10:55.17 | AStorm | all that would be taken care of by the wear levelling |
| 10:55.19 | SpeedEvil | to make the written blocks as much as possible contiguous |
| 10:55.28 | AStorm | much like ubifs does |
| 10:55.46 | AStorm | one gripe I have with ubifs is that they haven't split the wear levelling from the filesystem |
| 10:55.48 | SpeedEvil | Wear leveling may not do this. |
| 10:55.52 | AStorm | and just inserted some comm |
| 10:55.54 | AStorm | sure it will |
| 10:56.02 | AStorm | it has to to reduce the number of writes |
| 10:56.17 | AStorm | (per block) |
| 10:56.43 | SpeedEvil | write leveling may not be optimal performancewise |
| 10:57.00 | SpeedEvil | in this case I mean |
| 10:57.14 | AStorm | yes, that's why there should be a bit of communication |
| 10:58.14 | SpeedEvil | something like the file advice that the file will only be read sequentially proposed a while ago. I' not sure if that's been implemented |
| 10:58.19 | AStorm | (not sure what exactly except some delayed "swapping finished" notification) |
| 10:59.08 | SpeedEvil | Also there has been interesting recent work on compressed cache |
| 10:59.23 | AStorm | yes |
| 10:59.35 | SpeedEvil | And merging duplicate blocks in RAM |
| 10:59.45 | SpeedEvil | even merging almost duplicate blocks |
| 10:59.46 | *** join/#maemo t0h (n=tommi@dsl-kvlbrasgw2-fe0cdf00-1.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 10:59.59 | AStorm | you mean RAM compression... that could be useful |
| 11:01.28 | SpeedEvil | merge duplicate RAM blocks - copy on write |
| 11:01.42 | RST38h | Anyone with Fremantle SDK willing to help getting it up? |
| 11:01.48 | AStorm | and garbage collection? |
| 11:01.55 | AStorm | next step is full ram compression |
| 11:02.23 | SpeedEvil | scan for almost duplicate blocks - fault on read of patched block, and recreate, copy on write |
| 11:02.56 | AStorm | that's garbage collecton |
| 11:03.17 | AStorm | imagine doing that on a NUMA server ;p |
| 11:04.03 | qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: I only have SB1 but it goes like this in SB1 (you'll have to make concessions for sb2's weirdness): Use x86 target; add maemo-binaries repo; install maemo-binaries repo; "af-sb-init.sh start" |
| 11:04.27 | AStorm | blah blah "it's really important how people use it" crap to avoid the question about battery life |
| 11:06.53 | slonopotamus | it's really important. |
| 11:07.26 | SpeedEvil | http://mergemem.ist.org/ is an old version AStorm - I used this on my 486/75 - worked well - 500k/8M savings IIRC |
| 11:07.27 | AStorm | it is, but the question is: how long it lasts as 1) PMP 2) internet browser 3) phone |
| 11:07.41 | slonopotamus | pmp? |
| 11:07.42 | AStorm | SpeedEvil: 500k/8M? |
| 11:07.48 | AStorm | slonopotamus: portable media player duh |
| 11:07.55 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: savings/RAM |
| 11:08.01 | AStorm | with subclasses 1) video 2) music |
| 11:08.11 | lcuk | baa's @ rst |
| 11:08.28 | RST38h | heya lcuk |
| 11:08.43 | RST38h | qwerty: ok, I think I am missing adding and installing maemo-binaries. How fo I do it? |
| 11:09.21 | SpeedEvil | http://code.google.com/p/compcache/ also |
| 11:09.30 | AStorm | where 2) has subclasses a) wifi b) bluetooth c) direct modem |
| 11:11.19 | AStorm | might add 4) camera if you really want to |
| 11:11.30 | qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula/index.php - add the entry it gives you to your sources.list, update, and install the maemo-binaries metapackage |
| 11:11.58 | RST38h | aha |
| 11:12.17 | RST38h | adding |
| 11:12.25 | slonopotamus | would better install bigger battery and claimed N hours under _any_ usage conditions. |
| 11:13.05 | AStorm | yeah, then again, N810 has ~4h under any |
| 11:13.12 | AStorm | maybe 3.5h |
| 11:13.15 | slonopotamus | no, 2. |
| 11:13.24 | AStorm | 2? how did you load it like that? |
| 11:13.29 | AStorm | I tried a movie over wifi |
| 11:13.32 | slonopotamus | full brightness + 100% cpu load |
| 11:13.33 | RST38h | OH YESSS |
| 11:13.36 | RST38h | Thanks, qwerty |
| 11:13.50 | AStorm | slonopotamus: hmmh |
| 11:13.51 | slonopotamus | even without wifi |
| 11:14.04 | RST38h | slonopotamus: With Maemo, you can't claim the same number of hours under any conditions, same goes for Symbian |
| 11:14.05 | AStorm | the movie also loaded CPU |
| 11:14.33 | slonopotamus | RST38h, take worst usecase then |
| 11:14.38 | RST38h | mileage will vary too much |
| 11:14.42 | RST38h | Worst is probably 5hr |
| 11:14.59 | AStorm | worst where? again, I managed 3.5h |
| 11:15.05 | AStorm | and that's not really the worst I could do |
| 11:15.23 | RST38h | Ok,, let us call 1hr worst and advertise it |
| 11:15.33 | AStorm | no, that'd be the end of the device |
| 11:15.36 | RST38h | "N900 gives you stunning 1hr of batteyr life!" |
| 11:15.44 | AStorm | I'd like the "phone call length" estimate |
| 11:15.54 | RST38h | Nokia gives you that I think |
| 11:16.05 | AStorm | no? |
| 11:16.06 | RST38h | Something like 4hrs talk time |
| 11:16.37 | RST38h | Seen it somewhere inside Maemo marketing stuff |
| 11:17.05 | AStorm | well, I have not |
| 11:18.41 | AStorm | now, another lifetime could be using GPS + modem for maps |
| 11:19.49 | RST38h | 6.5 hrs |
| 11:20.12 | AStorm | RST38h: have you measured that? :> |
| 11:20.25 | RST38h | no, seen it mentioned today |
| 11:20.28 | AStorm | that'd be as good as n810 if not better (since my phone dies before the device) |
| 11:20.52 | RST38h | I do not think they had it load additional maps over the phone though |
| 11:21.04 | RST38h | because it simply said "gps navigation" |
| 11:21.12 | AStorm | that's some average, most likely |
| 11:21.35 | RST38h | BEST average :) |
| 11:22.04 | AStorm | yep |
| 11:26.06 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=Miranda@gwh-1-22-val21.ln.rinet.ru) |
| 11:26.25 | RST38h | heya wazd |
| 11:26.38 | wazd | RST38h: heya |
| 11:26.41 | wazd | hello all :) |
| 11:27.01 | RST38h | is gonna install drnoksnes like right NOW |
| 11:27.09 | RST38h | And play Metal Marines! =) |
| 11:28.21 | wazd | RST38h: yeah, keyboard helps this process :D |
| 11:28.41 | *** join/#maemo bilboed (n=bilboed@89.129.131.142) |
| 11:31.35 | *** join/#maemo ziyourenxiang (n=ziyouren@unaffiliated/ziyourenxiang) |
| 11:34.30 | *** join/#maemo paperclip1 (n=Stanley@246.120.0-93.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 11:38.25 | ShadowJK | carboncopy, iirc stskeeps replaced the charger port on one of his tablets. I don't think it's soldered |
| 11:39.09 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A1679C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:42.28 | RST38h | Gentlemen, if I have to link with libalsa on the tablet, what package do I need to depend on? |
| 11:42.48 | *** join/#maemo stv0 (n=steffen@dslb-084-063-115-077.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:43.24 | *** part/#maemo stv0 (n=steffen@dslb-084-063-115-077.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:43.33 | slonopotamus | RST38h, libasound-smth? |
| 11:43.54 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 11:43.59 | slonopotamus | maybe libasound2-smth |
| 11:44.54 | RST38h | slonopotamus: I need the exact name :) |
| 11:45.20 | lcuk | libasound2 - shared library for ALSA applications |
| 11:45.20 | lcuk | libasound2-dbg - ALSA library (debugging symbols) |
| 11:45.20 | lcuk | libasound2-dev - shared library for ALSA applications -- development files |
| 11:45.20 | lcuk | libasound2-plugins - ALSA library additional plugins |
| 11:45.20 | lcuk | libasound2-plugins-dbg - ALSA library additional plugins debugging symbols |
| 11:45.24 | RST38h | aha, it is libasound2! |
| 11:45.26 | RST38h | thanks |
| 11:45.31 | slonopotamus | moving version number into package name was one of the ugliest things in debian and derived distros |
| 11:45.49 | javispedro | it's soname number |
| 11:45.55 | javispedro | major one only iirc |
| 11:46.11 | javispedro | I guess the idea was to allow multiple major versions of same lib to coexist |
| 11:46.16 | slonopotamus | i don't care. it has nothing to do with name |
| 11:46.20 | javispedro | since dpkg doesn't allow for multiple versions of the same package |
| 11:47.10 | slonopotamus | javispedro, they did dpkg themselves, so it isn't an excuse |
| 11:47.36 | javispedro | yeah, well, they found this solution :) |
| 11:48.18 | javispedro | in an ideal world, libasound2 would provide libasound and apt-getting libasound would pull the latest libasound2. |
| 11:48.23 | *** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@p57B6637C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:48.26 | javispedro | btw, moo all :) |
| 11:49.04 | lcuk | mornin javispedro |
| 11:49.33 | RST38h | nope, asound2, asound, libasound2, libasound do not work |
| 11:49.51 | javispedro | RST38h, I knew this wasn't an ideal world ;) |
| 11:51.03 | lcuk | mmmmm http://www.lolpix.com/pictures/2/Funny_Pictures_625.htm |
| 11:51.30 | javispedro | RST38h, so, what are you trying to do? (logs don't work) |
| 11:52.37 | RST38h | Ok I know why |
| 11:52.45 | RST38h | There is no asound package in Fremantle |
| 11:52.50 | lcuk | no |
| 11:52.55 | lcuk | that was announced a while ago |
| 11:53.14 | RST38h | lack of esd was announced, but I thought alsa was there |
| 11:53.27 | RST38h | Just WHAT am I supposed to use then? |
| 11:53.28 | javispedro | [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > apt-cache search asound |
| 11:53.28 | javispedro | libasound2 - shared library for ALSA applications |
| 11:53.29 | javispedro | ? |
| 11:53.34 | RST38h | hmmmm |
| 11:53.39 | *** join/#maemo kpel (n=mcu@unaffiliated/kpel) |
| 11:53.42 | RST38h | maybe I need an apt-get install |
| 11:53.43 | wazd | javispedro: btw, is there any way to zoom snes without smoothing? |
| 11:53.56 | wazd | javispedro: just plain 4x scaling |
| 11:53.57 | javispedro | wazd, nope. I'm using the hw one. |
| 11:54.04 | *** join/#maemo Mace_N8x0 (n=macer@rancorous.net) |
| 11:54.04 | wazd | javispedro: oh :( |
| 11:54.06 | javispedro | it's 2x only. |
| 11:54.16 | Mace_N8x0 | hi |
| 11:54.19 | lcuk | alll rst |
| 11:54.20 | lcuk | sorry yeah |
| 11:54.29 | javispedro | any kind of scaling algorithm I tried, even the simplest one I though, dropped the framerate by 3 fps |
| 11:54.29 | lcuk | http://repository.maemo.org/unstable/5.0beta2/beta_vs_beta2_content_comparison.html |
| 11:54.41 | Mace_N8x0 | hm. n810 is dying |
| 11:54.41 | RST38h | weird, apt-get says asound2 is there but pkg-config does not know about it |
| 11:54.53 | wazd | javispedro: well, I don't know how to measure correctly :) |
| 11:54.59 | RST38h | javispedro: You can double or triple in hardware on n810 |
| 11:55.04 | RST38h | javispedro: very easily too |
| 11:55.11 | javispedro | RST38h, oh, i didn't know. |
| 11:55.11 | wazd | javispedro: there are 4 originals in 1 scaled image :) |
| 11:55.18 | Mace_N8x0 | anybody try 0.16-test of mer? |
| 11:55.20 | RST38h | javispedro: Look at EMULib sources |
| 11:55.34 | lcuk | RST38h, extract the little bit and put it on the wiki |
| 11:55.38 | lcuk | easier than digging :P |
| 11:56.13 | javispedro | either way I don't need any more than 2x, from memory snes height is 239. |
| 11:56.17 | RST38h | I do not get it: how do I get asound installed but not in pkg-config? |
| 11:56.23 | RST38h | lcuk: Too lazy for that |
| 11:56.28 | lcuk | pkg-config might have wrong paths |
| 11:56.33 | RST38h | hmmm |
| 11:56.41 | qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: You get karma =) |
| 11:56.42 | javispedro | RST38h, I have alsa in pkg-config |
| 11:56.43 | lcuk | or the files for pkg-config was not in correct place |
| 11:56.45 | Mace_N8x0 | asound? |
| 11:56.59 | javispedro | > pkg-config --libs alsa |
| 11:57.00 | javispedro | -lasound |
| 11:57.07 | Mace_N8x0 | is that like an alsa sound daemon? |
| 11:57.27 | javispedro | Mace_N8x0, ALSA _is_ the hardware, if you remove all the cruft from it :) |
| 11:58.24 | javispedro | they did a "global system rename job" in fremantle. probably to break as many applications as possible ;) (joking of course) |
| 11:58.54 | RST38h | javis: Ah thanks! |
| 11:59.39 | *** join/#maemo PhlowX (n=quassel@dslb-092-077-090-069.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:00.17 | wazd | lawl |
| 12:00.29 | wazd | just looked at "top 100 snes games" |
| 12:00.39 | wazd | there's a game called: Ogre Battle: The March of the Black Queen |
| 12:01.01 | wazd | Developers were huge fans of Queen I suppose :D |
| 12:01.21 | wazd | hah |
| 12:01.24 | RST38h | it is a japanese game though =) |
| 12:01.29 | wazd | "Now, here's some trivia for you... The game's creator, Yasumi Matsuno, is a big fan of the rock band Queen. As a result, the game's name is a combination of two song titles from the band's second album, Queen II. Similarly, there's an in-game location called the Rhyan Sea which is named after another song from that album, "Seven Seas of Rhye". " |
| 12:01.34 | RST38h | make sure you play Zombies Ate My neighbors |
| 12:01.43 | wazd | RST38h: Queen was super famous in Japan ;) |
| 12:01.52 | RST38h | Preferably on a 60" screen with volume on full |
| 12:01.59 | *** join/#maemo paperclip1 (n=Stanley@93.0.120.246) |
| 12:03.45 | wazd | People in Japan like everything singing and flamboyant :) |
| 12:05.12 | wazd | Andre Klapper ýòæ X-Fade âðîäå |
| 12:05.40 | wazd | ùà ñïðîøó ó Ãåãî, ñà ì ÃÃ¥ ïîéìó) |
| 12:06.05 | wazd | f yt |
| 12:06.06 | wazd | Ã ÃÃ¥ |
| 12:06.27 | wazd | ýòî Andre |
| 12:06.37 | wazd | damn) |
| 12:06.41 | wazd | Wrong window) |
| 12:06.48 | wazd | andre__: around?) |
| 12:07.15 | wazd | cant navigate thru 14 opened IM sessions :( |
| 12:07.59 | Mace_N8x0 | haha |
| 12:08.03 | wazd | andre__: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5083 <- what do you mean? |
| 12:08.20 | wazd | Mace_N8x0: yeah, fail :D |
| 12:08.48 | Mace_N8x0 | we all make mistakes |
| 12:08.57 | Mace_N8x0 | i hate this n810 charger |
| 12:09.19 | Mace_N8x0 | it always feels like it is going to snap |
| 12:09.24 | *** join/#maemo _BuBU (n=_BuBU@79.87.141.194) |
| 12:09.41 | Mace_N8x0 | i should test mer |
| 12:10.18 | ShadowJK | for some reason microusb feels more fragile to me :) |
| 12:10.18 | Mace_N8x0 | maybe if i had a spare sd |
| 12:10.35 | Mace_N8x0 | more than this needle? |
| 12:11.00 | Mace_N8x0 | when i was in the Marines, we had to get this penicilin shot |
| 12:11.00 | ShadowJK | wazd: does he mean keyboard shortcuts? |
| 12:11.28 | Mace_N8x0 | and you had to relax otherwise the 5" needle would snap off in your ass cheek |
| 12:11.37 | wazd | ShadowJK: I don't understand :( |
| 12:11.43 | Mace_N8x0 | that is what the nokia charger reminds me of |
| 12:12.33 | Mace_N8x0 | i cant wait til i can get a tmob n900 |
| 12:12.47 | qwerty12_N810 | wazd: The buttons have one underlined letter for shortcuts. So, say you have a button that says "Update" and the shortcut is for "U" then "Update" will have an underlined 'U'. Not bad usually, but they're activated with Alt+<the letter> and the N900 does not have Alt |
| 12:12.53 | Mace_N8x0 | anybody here give any clue on battery life? |
| 12:13.07 | ShadowJK | wazd: when you use the app menu, you can access it through tapping titlebar, or by pressing menu. Some letters in the menu items are underlined or otherwise marked. if you press that key, it selects that menu item |
| 12:13.08 | qwerty12_N810 | (Andre told me the same recently) |
| 12:13.38 | ShadowJK | so, for example, I can in claws press menu m m d, to mark a message read, and this is discoverable |
| 12:14.00 | Mace_N8x0 | no alt?! |
| 12:14.02 | Mace_N8x0 | lame |
| 12:14.24 | Mace_N8x0 | alt is a nice key to have |
| 12:14.26 | wazd | qwerty12_N810: oooh! |
| 12:14.28 | ShadowJK | my n810 has no alt either? :/ |
| 12:14.37 | Mace_N8x0 | sure it does |
| 12:14.41 | wazd | qwerty12_N810: ShadowJK: thanks! |
| 12:14.44 | Mace_N8x0 | chr ;) |
| 12:14.56 | ShadowJK | oh, I never knew that |
| 12:15.03 | Mace_N8x0 | heh |
| 12:15.03 | ShadowJK | I just used the menu key |
| 12:15.54 | Mace_N8x0 | sure wish maemo5 was out for iphone |
| 12:15.59 | ShadowJK | the neat thing about those shortcuts is that the underlining goes away when you close keyboard, and come back when you open keyboard |
| 12:16.06 | Mace_N8x0 | might attract iphone developers |
| 12:16.29 | *** join/#maemo Dvoid_ (n=Dvoid@217-209-3-53-no145.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 12:16.31 | qwerty12_N810 | Yes, I'd love to see Maemo's first fart app :) |
| 12:16.33 | Dvoid_ | hello :) |
| 12:16.42 | Mace_N8x0 | qwerty12_N810, hehe |
| 12:17.00 | Dvoid_ | i just found out about this wonderfull thing ;) |
| 12:17.05 | Mace_N8x0 | at least we can say "theres a maemo app for that" |
| 12:17.28 | Mace_N8x0 | Dvoid_, vagina? |
| 12:17.43 | Dvoid_ | been thinking about buying an android phone for months, but maemo seems ooo much nicer :) |
| 12:17.48 | Mace_N8x0 | oh |
| 12:17.51 | Dvoid_ | :) |
| 12:17.55 | Mace_N8x0 | android sucks |
| 12:17.56 | Mace_N8x0 | heh |
| 12:18.01 | ShadowJK | if you are a linux geek, maemo should be a better fit :) |
| 12:18.07 | Mace_N8x0 | i have had a g1 for a while |
| 12:18.19 | Mace_N8x0 | cool at first, crappy later |
| 12:18.25 | Mace_N8x0 | like an iphone |
| 12:18.30 | Dvoid_ | yea been using linux as my default desktop for like 8 years or så |
| 12:18.31 | Dvoid_ | so |
| 12:19.08 | Dvoid_ | how easy would it be to port my sdl based games to maemo? |
| 12:19.28 | Dvoid_ | does maemo support openGL or openES on n900 ? |
| 12:19.36 | Dvoid_ | if opengl what version? |
| 12:19.43 | slonopotamus | Dvoid_, opengles |
| 12:19.46 | Dvoid_ | k |
| 12:20.13 | Dvoid_ | what about a simple sdl based game, like svn checkout make, done? ;) |
| 12:21.02 | slonopotamus | Dvoid_, is battle for wesnoth sdl? |
| 12:21.13 | Dvoid_ | im also thinking about cross platform comaptibility, will there be other phones (other then nokia) based on maemo, and if so will n900 based applications work out of the box on them? |
| 12:21.19 | Dvoid_ | slonopotamus, yea think so |
| 12:22.02 | slonopotamus | Dvoid_, then there should be sdl for maemo :) |
| 12:22.32 | andre__ | wazd, Re 5083: what i mean is that mnemonics are shown. and that i have not the slightest idea how they can be useful to me. however i should have filed that as enhancement, not a "bug" itself |
| 12:22.33 | Dvoid_ | anyone here developing for maemo? |
| 12:22.42 | Dvoid_ | is there a gcc port etc? |
| 12:22.47 | Dvoid_ | crosscompiler? |
| 12:22.53 | ShadowJK | well,svn co ; make might work, but there are some issues |
| 12:23.02 | slonopotamus | Dvoid_, you want maemo sdk |
| 12:23.03 | wazd | andre__: yeah, thanks for pointing it out |
| 12:23.14 | jarrod___ | anyone here able to take on some contract work in maemo development? |
| 12:23.16 | Dvoid_ | slonopotamus, k |
| 12:23.17 | ShadowJK | there's a sdk, which is this slightly terrible scratchbox thing |
| 12:23.23 | wazd | andre__: there's no bug in Diablo, so we can't locate it ourselves :) |
| 12:23.43 | slonopotamus | Dvoid_, at least it is official development method |
| 12:23.53 | Dvoid_ | better then some halfassed java sdk |
| 12:23.59 | andre__ | wazd, it's not really a bug, it just looks unsexy to my small dictator's square eyes ;-) |
| 12:25.26 | wazd | andre__: yeah, I can imagine :) |
| 12:25.26 | ShadowJK | dvoid: currently no maemo on non-nokia devices |
| 12:26.47 | Dvoid_ | ShadowJK, but do you think it will hapen, my basic question is , will the market for maemo applications expand |
| 12:27.08 | RST38h | Another stupid question: How do I start the desktop in Scratchbox? |
| 12:27.12 | RST38h | What do I run? |
| 12:27.15 | ShadowJK | dvoid: some chinese companies pirate maemo, does that count? :) |
| 12:27.32 | RST38h | jarrod: What work are you talking about? |
| 12:28.00 | Dvoid_ | with only one phone on the market i doubth the interest ofr the os will expand, maybe android will take over anyways |
| 12:28.56 | ShadowJK | and that one phone wont be available until mid october... |
| 12:29.03 | RST38h | Hmm...Ok, found what to run and quite predictably it all crashed |
| 12:29.05 | ShadowJK | when the nokia shop preorders allegedly ship |
| 12:29.14 | SpeedEvil | If the OS is opensource and polished - I would expect a fair number of chinese phone vendors install it |
| 12:29.23 | SpeedEvil | rather than buying WinCE/... |
| 12:29.39 | RST38h | this whole debug-on-qemu thing is an elaborate bullshit |
| 12:29.46 | ShadowJK | Speedevil: the polish isn't freely distributable :) |
| 12:30.25 | qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: Worksforme in SB1. But note: only the X86 target works for bringing up the UI |
| 12:31.22 | RST38h | qwerty: Why would I need x86 target? |
| 12:31.48 | derf | Really? I remember it working fine for the ARM target. |
| 12:31.53 | ShadowJK | dvoid: as a (power)user the best thing about maemo is that it's close to regular linux, that many regular linux apps are easily ported :) |
| 12:31.58 | qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: Because QEMU sucks and will not work for starting the Fremantle UI? |
| 12:32.11 | derf | Oh, that was pre-Fremantle, though. |
| 12:32.24 | Dvoid_ | ShadowJK, yea thats what really got me :) |
| 12:32.32 | slonopotamus | qwerty12_N810, 'maemo qemu', to be more exact :P |
| 12:32.45 | Dvoid_ | and thats what really anoys me about android..... |
| 12:32.49 | qwerty12_N810 | s/QEMU/Maemo QEMU/ |
| 12:32.57 | qwerty12_N810 | Happy, slonopotamus? :) |
| 12:33.08 | slonopotamus | yeah :) |
| 12:33.09 | qwerty12_N810 | +'s |
| 12:34.31 | wazd | Ari told in his interview that n900 doesn't have Mass Storage profile for PC connectivity |
| 12:34.39 | wazd | Whislie Tango Foxtrot?! |
| 12:34.50 | wazd | Whiskie* |
| 12:35.00 | jaska | indeed |
| 12:35.06 | jaska | wtf++ |
| 12:35.10 | ShadowJK | wazd: that sounds strange :) |
| 12:35.11 | Mek | hmm? all the versions I've played with worked perfectly as mass storage device... |
| 12:35.22 | ShadowJK | mek: n900? |
| 12:35.30 | Mek | yeah |
| 12:35.37 | ShadowJK | strange :) |
| 12:35.49 | wazd | Mek: maybe he just didn't completly understand what he was asked about |
| 12:36.05 | qwerty12_N810 | wazd: I call bullshit. https://stage.maemo.org/viewcvs.cgi/projects/haf/trunk/ke-recv/?root=maemo still has scripts for enabling mass storage |
| 12:36.16 | *** join/#maemo paperclip1 (n=Stanley@246.120.0-93.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 12:36.17 | wazd | It was about syncing with Windows MP and winamp as a mass storage |
| 12:37.03 | ShadowJK | maybe he thought of MTP? |
| 12:37.31 | wazd | he likes rotating zoom |
| 12:37.39 | wazd | .me knows who did this now :D |
| 12:38.25 | ShadowJK | the nipple twirl |
| 12:38.40 | wazd | ShadowJK: yeah, exactly my thought :D |
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| 12:39.27 | *** join/#maemo angasule (n=angasule@201.250.124.40) |
| 12:39.46 | ShadowJK | wazd: maybe someone needs to make a game of it |
| 12:40.01 | wazd | oh, and then he says that it IS mass storage |
| 12:40.07 | RST38h | qwerty: Frankly, as an app developer, I do not care WHY it doesnot work =) |
| 12:40.18 | wazd | weird :) |
| 12:41.30 | ShadowJK | I think it makes sense if you substitute the first mass storage with mtp |
| 12:41.38 | ShadowJK | especially given the wmp context |
| 12:44.41 | wazd | And the most stupid question is: "Why haven't you put Maemo 5 on Booklet 3g?" |
| 12:45.31 | ShadowJK | theinq or thereg had the answer nailed |
| 12:47.06 | ShadowJK | When operators are subsidizing netbooks with 3g modems, nokia wants to cash in on the laziness of operators; they think operators are too lazy to seek out new relationships with acer,asus,msi,etc |
| 12:47.56 | *** join/#maemo zpol (i=gentoo@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 12:49.16 | RST38h | ShadowJK <-- speaketh the truth |
| 12:50.21 | SpeedEvil | isn't seeing a compelling reason why the booklet 3g is better than - say - the lenovo S10E with a 3G pci-e card. |
| 12:50.37 | SpeedEvil | The battery life is better, admittedly. |
| 12:51.09 | MrGoose | does that not depend on the load? |
| 12:51.32 | SpeedEvil | yes - but I've never seen a claim of 10h on the s10e |
| 12:51.41 | ShadowJK | speedevil: the sad thing is that it doesn't have to be better :-) |
| 12:51.50 | ShadowJK | it just has to be good enough |
| 12:51.53 | SpeedEvil | wishes he could design his own netbook. |
| 12:52.05 | SpeedEvil | well - design and get built. |
| 12:52.35 | SpeedEvil | In soviet china, bipolars design you! |
| 12:52.54 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 12:52.58 | RST38h | wishes netbooks would die |
| 12:53.11 | SpeedEvil | By netbook I mean a compact decent laptop. |
| 12:53.17 | SpeedEvil | My X60S is _almost_ there. |
| 12:53.26 | RST38h | Because of these silly midgets, I cannot get a decent small size subnotebook |
| 12:53.51 | SpeedEvil | I want a 11" 1400*1050 or so 4:3 screen, 1.1Kg or so metal case, >5h battery life. |
| 12:54.02 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 12:54.05 | RST38h | Ever subnotebook has now been renamed to netbook and maimed by including Atom |
| 12:54.27 | SpeedEvil | And I want it with two cores. |
| 12:54.30 | RST38h | I do not need a fucking Atom, I need a real CPU to do work, in small package |
| 12:54.40 | ali12341 | no |
| 12:54.48 | SpeedEvil | One arm low power thingy, and one atom or better class CPU |
| 12:54.50 | ShadowJK | well... if you want battery life and core2 it adds 1000 to the price :/ |
| 12:55.10 | RST38h | is fine with extra $1000, it is tax deductible in the US |
| 12:55.16 | RST38h | Business expense. |
| 12:55.20 | ShadowJK | there are quad-core cortex a9 samples now btw :P |
| 12:55.34 | ShadowJK | that'd be cool in a netbook |
| 12:55.44 | RST38h | What would you do on 4 cores? |
| 12:55.59 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: 4 cores - well - as long as you're running 4 apps. |
| 12:56.04 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: or multithreaded apps |
| 12:56.11 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: if not - you're just wasting power |
| 12:56.14 | RST38h | You do know that multicore designs are only better if your software is designed to run on multiple cores? =) |
| 12:56.40 | SpeedEvil | But aggressive multitasking is not primarily what I want from a 'netbook' |
| 12:57.15 | SpeedEvil | 140dpi good screen, and fairly light, with good battery life. |
| 12:57.18 | SpeedEvil | and 4:3 |
| 12:57.35 | derf | Yeah, good luck with that. |
| 12:57.45 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 12:57.48 | derf | I want that, except at 1600x1200. |
| 12:58.08 | SpeedEvil | 1600x1200 at what size? |
| 12:58.14 | derf | 15" is fine. |
| 12:58.29 | derf | I have it right now in my T60. |
| 12:58.38 | SpeedEvil | For me 15" is too much for my use-cases. |
| 12:58.40 | derf | But it's getting old. |
| 12:59.17 | SpeedEvil | It's insane that high DPI displays are almost only available in under 4" packages. |
| 12:59.19 | derf | And I literally can't replace it, because no one makes a laptop I would buy any longer. |
| 12:59.23 | SpeedEvil | Where they are almost useless. |
| 12:59.47 | SpeedEvil | 285dpi - for example - in almost no case is that better visually after AA than 180dpi |
| 13:00.12 | derf | People make what's economically feasible to make. |
| 13:00.24 | ali12341 | after you smudge the image up with AA anything looks crap |
| 13:00.41 | derf | Apparently the reason Lenovo stopped offering 1600x1200 15" LCDs is the glass maker they used went out of business. |
| 13:01.46 | derf | It's also the reason 4:3 aspect ratio basically no longer exists. |
| 13:02.05 | SpeedEvil | derf: Or what the marketing people tell them. |
| 13:02.20 | derf | No. It's much cheaper to cut the glass for 16:9 screens. |
| 13:02.31 | SpeedEvil | yes - of course. |
| 13:02.32 | derf | Marketing then tells you that you want the thing that's much cheaper for them to produce. |
| 13:02.38 | SpeedEvil | That's what I mean. |
| 13:03.08 | ShadowJK | 4 cores is great. One core goes to running firefox when it decides to go on a cpu hogging rampage, the other core goes to flash for same reason, third core is available for all the random background crap, and then you've got the fourth core left for actual work |
| 13:03.24 | derf | You sounded like you were saying marketing was directing engineering. |
| 13:03.42 | *** join/#maemo dieb_ (n=dieb@187.64.43.208) |
| 13:03.43 | RST38h | ShadowJK: Firefox usually goes onto memory hogging rampage before it feasts on your CPU |
| 13:03.45 | SpeedEvil | I have a 20.1" display. I cannot replace it with a taller display without going to something insane like 40" - which I have no desk space for. |
| 13:03.59 | RST38h | There is 32" |
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| 13:04.09 | RST38h | 24",26",30,32" |
| 13:04.16 | RST38h | then 36" and 42" |
| 13:04.20 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: 32" is still a bit shorter than 20" 4:3 |
| 13:04.28 | SpeedEvil | Or maybe it was 28" |
| 13:04.32 | ShadowJK | rst38h: ah I've got 8gig on my desktop, firefox usually crashes sommewhere around 2 or 3 gig |
| 13:04.34 | SpeedEvil | forgets the exact number |
| 13:04.41 | ShadowJK | (yes, 64 bit OS) |
| 13:06.23 | RST38h | ehehe |
| 13:06.49 | RST38h | suggests rotating 16:9 screen |
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| 13:08.15 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: that would be a little too narrow. I would actually like a 24" square display - but meh. |
| 13:08.40 | lbt | went for 24" 16:9 |
| 13:08.43 | lbt | x2 |
| 13:09.02 | lbt | 3840x1280 of 3D goodness |
| 13:09.38 | SpeedEvil | wants proper 3d. Also a flying car. |
| 13:09.40 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 13:10.13 | lbt | delivers one telekinetically |
| 13:10.27 | ShadowJK | there are drivable airplanes now :) |
| 13:10.44 | ShadowJK | basically airplane that converts into car |
| 13:11.14 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: yes - that's a sane solution - your actual flying VTOL car has severe issues. |
| 13:11.25 | SpeedEvil | (noise primarily, as well as control and safety) |
| 13:11.33 | ShadowJK | aimed at pilots who can't use rental car services at thr airports they fly to on their commute to work |
| 13:12.08 | ShadowJK | screw flying car, I'd be happy with a supercub :) |
| 13:12.24 | wazd | why I have Tim Samoff spaming in my Facebook news feed :D |
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| 13:19.09 | ShadowJK | hm, some youtube videos play smoothly on n810 and some do not |
| 13:25.01 | ShadowJK | ah the widescreen ones are slow |
| 13:25.42 | SpeedEvil | Ban widescreen! :) |
| 13:25.54 | javispedro | ShadowJK, yes, I noticed that too. |
| 13:27.13 | angasule | youtube-dl + vlc :) |
| 13:33.05 | ShadowJK | bleh, keepvid isn't working |
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| 13:41.39 | crashanddie_ | anyone know of any job in nyc or calif? |
| 13:47.46 | suihkulokki | ChanServ: I'm sure mcdonalds is hiring |
| 13:48.19 | SpeedEvil | I think chanserv has a pretty good gig. |
| 13:48.27 | crashanddie_ | yup |
| 13:48.33 | crashanddie_ | suihkulokki, tab-fail |
| 13:52.33 | mavhc | do they play off youtube in the browser anymore? |
| 13:53.16 | ShadowJK | ? |
| 13:57.44 | timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: i found new things to strangle |
| 13:58.37 | ShadowJK | everytime you write ugly code, timeless strangles a kitten |
| 13:59.01 | timeless_mbp | or stupid strings :) |
| 13:59.18 | SpeedEvil | timeless: can we have a youtube feed plz? |
| 13:59.37 | timeless_mbp | of me strangling things? |
| 14:00.10 | qwerty12_N810 | No, of your N900(s) :) |
| 14:00.31 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 14:01.38 | ShadowJK | Youtube: Durability testing, timeless-style: N900 vs thick heads |
| 14:01.59 | timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: i do have pictures of things for select viewers |
| 14:02.08 | qwerty12_N810 | I know :\ |
| 14:02.17 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: I've suggested the n900 for durability testing to BlendTek. |
| 14:02.49 | javispedro | SpeedEvil, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. |
| 14:02.50 | SpeedEvil | http://www.willitblend.com/suggestions.aspx |
| 14:03.00 | mavhc | what do they do to offset their creation of toxic waste? |
| 14:07.33 | *** join/#maemo melmoth_n810 (n=melmoth@ip-62-241-123-201.evc.net) |
| 14:07.33 | SpeedEvil | By blending kittens of course. |
| 14:08.25 | lcuk | i bet the n900 will last longer than iphone |
| 14:08.31 | lcuk | in more ways than one :) |
| 14:11.38 | Electric_Poison | i bet not |
| 14:12.00 | Electric_Poison | like ms, a product can win as long as billions are poured into it |
| 14:12.10 | Electric_Poison | no matter the products shizzyness |
| 14:12.19 | Electric_Poison | aka ie v4 |
| 14:12.28 | kirma | slightly sad is that N900 lacks irda transciever... I mean, otherwise it could be used as home theatre remote? |
| 14:12.51 | kirma | although in other aspects, irda is certainly pretty dead. |
| 14:12.51 | Electric_Poison | i wish it was so expensive man |
| 14:13.08 | mavhc | get a bluetooth to irda converter |
| 14:13.09 | SpeedEvil | kirma: There are bluetooth-IRDA gateways I think |
| 14:13.21 | Electric_Poison | i want one but i cant cough that up |
| 14:13.53 | GeneralAntilles | kirma, iRDA sucks for remote usage. |
| 14:13.56 | kirma | speedevil: suppose so, but that does take quite a bit of extra effort from user to get in use (==purchasing a rare gadget) |
| 14:14.25 | kirma | although something like bt is certainly much better thing for remote control applications than ancient infrared... |
| 14:14.41 | SpeedEvil | kirma: yeah |
| 14:14.41 | suihkulokki | kirma: irda = bad, cir = hot |
| 14:14.45 | Electric_Poison | cant wait till the next bt is out |
| 14:14.59 | Electric_Poison | projected at 480 mbps |
| 14:15.01 | kirma | "cir" ? |
| 14:15.06 | suihkulokki | ie. irda usually has a range of ~1.5M which sucks for remote usage |
| 14:15.15 | SpeedEvil | BT sucks for remote usage |
| 14:16.08 | *** join/#maemo EdLin_ (n=EdLin@securabit/listener/edlin) |
| 14:16.16 | Electric_Poison | my remote needs a gps connected to myh internet that magically works indoors |
| 14:16.22 | Electric_Poison | gps* |
| 14:16.34 | Electric_Poison | ...grr... i hate my sprained thumb |
| 14:18.32 | timeless_mbp | how'd you manage that? |
| 14:19.10 | SpeedEvil | Was it lifting cars? |
| 14:19.40 | Electric_Poison | martial arts |
| 14:19.56 | Electric_Poison | was ona hill and fell while practicing |
| 14:20.09 | SpeedEvil | Oops. |
| 14:20.20 | Electric_Poison | cracked my thumb a few times... makes my n810 so much harder to use |
| 14:20.38 | SpeedEvil | doctor? |
| 14:20.46 | SpeedEvil | lots of little ligaments in that area |
| 14:22.43 | Electric_Poison | no... its getting better |
| 14:22.46 | Electric_Poison | i hope |
| 14:22.52 | Electric_Poison | it was a week ago |
| 14:23.06 | Electric_Poison | i popped it once cause it needed it so bad... |
| 14:23.21 | Electric_Poison | and it brought me to my knees it hurt so bad |
| 14:27.58 | mavhc | I use bluetooth to control my laptop connected to the tv, works from phone, n810 |
| 14:28.38 | andre__ | nice, the diablo xchat version basically works in fremantle too. some issues with autocompletion and auto-capitalization though |
| 14:28.59 | Electric_Poison | hm |
| 14:29.36 | Electric_Poison | has anyone used aircrack on maemo (with external of course) |
| 14:29.44 | Electric_Poison | and got it to work? |
| 14:29.47 | vladovg | hi |
| 14:30.24 | vladovg | did some one have a time to explain mi how to set up the User hotsynk for GarnetVM from this manual |
| 14:30.30 | vladovg | http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php/Running_Palm_OS_applications_via_command_line_shortcut |
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| 15:24.53 | GeneralAntilles | Internet again. |
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| 16:05.51 | lardman|home | afternoon all |
| 16:06.14 | javispedro | hi |
| 16:06.35 | zerojay | Hey |
| 16:06.43 | lardman|home | hi chaps |
| 16:06.55 | qwerty12_N810 | 'ello |
| 16:07.08 | lardman|home | qwerty12_N810: you going to OneDotZero? |
| 16:07.26 | qwerty12_N810 | If I'm able to, yes |
| 16:07.36 | lardman|home | able as in tickets? |
| 16:07.51 | qwerty12_N810 | Tickets / time etc. |
| 16:08.01 | zerojay | Where is it? |
| 16:08.32 | lardman|home | BFI Southbank |
| 16:11.11 | lardman|home | X-Fade: for future reference, the 770 does apparently have a lower initial power draw/power off threshold, as mine has started charging that battery |
| 16:18.58 | *** join/#maemo SuD (n=alex@89.7.113.215) |
| 16:25.09 | lardman|home | lcuk: ping |
| 16:25.43 | lcuk | hey sim |
| 16:25.45 | lcuk | on |
| 16:25.48 | lardman|home | :) |
| 16:26.00 | lardman|home | so when are you free on Thursday? |
| 16:26.10 | lardman|home | my meeting is 11.30 -> 5 |
| 16:26.26 | lardman|home | but I'm not too far away, just near Reagents park |
| 16:26.34 | lcuk | 5.05 sounds good :) |
| 16:26.35 | lcuk | lol |
| 16:28.05 | lardman|home | sure |
| 16:28.12 | lardman|home | go and grab a beer or something? |
| 16:28.50 | lardman|home | though I might try to pop into the exhibition and see the cool app in motion, assuming it's still running at that time? |
| 16:29.53 | MrGoose | mer still on .15? |
| 16:30.21 | wazd | Can someone shot me a mediaplayer selection screen (with those blue large icons) |
| 16:30.38 | MrGoose | we're supposed to be on .16 by now :( |
| 16:30.41 | wazd | Since it's shown anyway, I don't think that it can cause problems |
| 16:30.57 | wazd | I need these icons only :) |
| 16:35.37 | lardman|home | MrGoose: I think the excitement over the N900 delayed things |
| 16:35.45 | lardman|home | at least I read something along those lines |
| 16:37.05 | *** join/#maemo Stskeeps (n=chobits@pc-10-195.skjoldhoej.dk) |
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| 16:48.03 | wazd | oh, looks like another designer in our tribe, great! :) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31322 |
| 16:48.50 | Stskeeps | woo |
| 16:49.17 | qwerty12_N810 | Wb Stskeeps |
| 16:49.31 | Stskeeps | thanks |
| 16:49.36 | wazd | Stskeeps: heya :) |
| 16:49.40 | Stskeeps | now on from poland |
| 16:51.49 | javispedro | wb :) |
| 16:52.02 | lardman|home | hi Stskeeps |
| 16:53.43 | Stskeeps | lo |
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| 16:58.18 | jadams | how can I run the latest maemo in scratchbox? I want an n900, and want to see what dev for it will look like |
| 16:59.01 | jadams | nm |
| 16:59.14 | jadams | I found the beta2 sdk on maemo.org for maemo 5. Thanks anyway :) |
| 17:00.44 | zerojay | You won't get the same experience. |
| 17:00.54 | zerojay | The sdk is no n900 demo. |
| 17:01.11 | zerojay | So you know. |
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| 17:21.38 | wazd | javispedro: http://s60.radikal.ru/i169/0909/46/419d9aa3f5ab.png <- how about that? |
| 17:22.09 | javispedro | hehe. impressive as usual! :) |
| 17:22.28 | RST38h | wants these four buttons physically at the back of n900 =) |
| 17:22.46 | wazd | RST38h: and lasers! :D |
| 17:22.54 | javispedro | and compass! |
| 17:23.16 | derf | And a cake pony. |
| 17:23.21 | RST38h | and a jet engine |
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| 17:23.35 | wazd | javispedro: ok, time for artwork |
| 17:23.56 | javispedro | wazd, i'll need to put an about dialog to thank you :) |
| 17:24.13 | javispedro | ta! |
| 17:25.15 | wazd | javispedro: I've measured that artwork shoud be 660x170 |
| 17:25.19 | javispedro | ah, lemme check |
| 17:25.21 | wazd | Correct me if I'm wrong |
| 17:25.22 | *** join/#maemo angasule (n=angasule@201.250.124.40) |
| 17:26.06 | javispedro | hm. |
| 17:26.15 | javispedro | I see that the chess artwork is 668x179 |
| 17:26.22 | javispedro | and the marbles one is 648x180 |
| 17:26.28 | javispedro | so I guess max size is 668x180 |
| 17:26.30 | *** part/#maemo EdLin (n=EdLin@securabit/listener/edlin) |
| 17:27.17 | Pavlov | l/win 31 |
| 17:27.26 | javispedro | if it's not max size it does center it, so 660x170 will be ok, wazd. |
| 17:28.10 | javispedro | wazd: well, make it 180 (since the current is 180 too :P) |
| 17:28.15 | javispedro | ;) |
| 17:28.20 | skibur | has diablo stop creating updates? |
| 17:28.42 | javispedro | skibur, yes, unfortunately, unless someone steps in and produces a "community" one. |
| 17:29.03 | skibur | o ok |
| 17:29.15 | wazd | javispedro: ok |
| 17:29.20 | *** join/#maemo angasule (n=angasule@201.250.124.40) |
| 17:29.40 | skibur | so MER is where its at? |
| 17:29.49 | *** join/#maemo angasule (n=angasule@201.250.124.40) |
| 17:30.06 | RST38h | where what's up? |
| 17:30.10 | RST38h | s/up/at |
| 17:30.21 | GeneralAntilles | Mer |
| 17:30.32 | skibur | alternative distro for N8XX |
| 17:30.34 | *** join/#maemo angasule (n=angasule@201.250.124.40) |
| 17:30.57 | RST38h | Mer is separate for Diablo. And it is not yet usable on your N8xx |
| 17:31.20 | RST38h | If we are all lucky, Nokia will help setting up community updates to Diablo. |
| 17:32.05 | javispedro | iirc Stskeeps said that all missing was "community" manpower now |
| 17:32.27 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, ball's in our court. |
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| 17:45.05 | ZogG | RST38h so there is mamemo and mer or ti';s the smae? |
| 17:48.04 | RST38h | there is maemo and then there is mer |
| 17:48.16 | RST38h | two different animals |
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| 17:55.27 | ZogG | RST38h maemo is based on debian while mer is based on ubuntu? |
| 17:55.50 | slonopotamus | ZogG, which is based on debian :) |
| 17:55.57 | ZogG | that i know |
| 17:56.17 | GeneralAntilles | ZogG, not exactly. |
| 17:56.21 | ZogG | but you can run mer on n900 also as i understand |
| 17:56.22 | GeneralAntilles | Maemo is Debian derived. |
| 17:56.29 | ZogG | and mer? |
| 17:56.32 | GeneralAntilles | Mer is Ubuntu with mobile-oriented stuff on top. |
| 17:56.54 | slonopotamus | ZogG, maemo is a strange beast. it is very outdated and extremely patched. |
| 17:57.32 | ZogG | so, let's say that the aim of mer is to change mameo |
| 17:57.36 | ZogG | maemo* |
| 17:58.07 | GeneralAntilles | slonopotamus, well, it hasn't had a new official release since last year. . . |
| 17:58.26 | slonopotamus | GeneralAntilles, even then it was already outdated |
| 17:58.36 | RST38h | Zogg: does not really matter what it is based on |
| 17:58.54 | slonopotamus | GeneralAntilles, what gcc, 3.3? 3.4? |
| 17:58.54 | RST38h | More important is how complete it is and who maintains the components |
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| 17:59.12 | kirma | btw: any idea where N900 does the GPS tracking calculations? on dedicated silicon or the CPU? |
| 17:59.34 | RST38h | if it is the same 5300 chip or its sibling, then CPU |
| 17:59.39 | GeneralAntilles | slonopotamus, OS2008 was initially released in 2007. |
| 17:59.56 | ZogG | RST38h it's matter — what is the future? |
| 18:00.03 | kirma | Symbian phones have been doing that on CPU this far... and that eats battery. |
| 18:00.14 | kirma | but OMAP3 is not OMAP2 |
| 18:00.20 | RST38h | javis: Here? |
| 18:00.26 | javispedro | RST38h, pong. |
| 18:00.28 | slonopotamus | GeneralAntilles, so what? compared to other distros today, it's outdated. |
| 18:00.34 | RST38h | javis: Got a bug report to make |
| 18:01.02 | javispedro | RST38h, well, pm me, or file it in garage if you want |
| 18:01.08 | RST38h | javis: GZIPped SNES ROMs are not shown in file dialog and probably not loaded either |
| 18:01.12 | crashanddie_ | slonopotamus, because you need to release a new distribution version to update gcc? |
| 18:01.15 | crashanddie_ | that's new |
| 18:01.18 | javispedro | RST38h, feature request then :) |
| 18:01.43 | wazd | javispedro: why DrNokSnes btw? :D |
| 18:01.46 | RST38h | ah come on, don't play timeless =) |
| 18:01.51 | timeless_mbp | ? |
| 18:02.11 | GeneralAntilles | slonopotamus, my point is that it's a fairly meaningless statement. |
| 18:02.16 | javispedro | wazd, the original was called DrPocketSnes, and pupnik called his initial attempt "NokiaSnes", so the name stuck :) |
| 18:02.23 | GeneralAntilles | Things that haven't been updated in a long time are necessarily outdated. |
| 18:02.32 | slonopotamus | crashanddie_, in binary-based distros? yes, if you rebuild everything with new compiler |
| 18:02.32 | GeneralAntilles | But that doesn't mean that Maemo is an inherently outdated distribution. |
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| 18:02.51 | wazd | javispedro: oh :) |
| 18:02.55 | timeless_mbp | slonopotamus: so err |
| 18:03.02 | timeless_mbp | comparing a distro from 2007 against a distro from today is stupid |
| 18:03.09 | wazd | javispedro: I'd rather call it "Super maemicom" :D |
| 18:03.11 | timeless_mbp | of course it's outdated, by its very definition |
| 18:03.14 | javispedro | RST38h, gzipped or zipped? |
| 18:03.26 | timeless_mbp | just as comparing a current debian with a debian maintenance of ubuntu LTS would be |
| 18:03.26 | ZogG | GeneralAntilles what about moblin ? |
| 18:03.27 | slonopotamus | timeless_mbp, that's what i said |
| 18:03.29 | GeneralAntilles | "Welcome to your new N900! Please connect to the internet so new packages can be downloaded and wait 3 days for theem to compile!" |
| 18:03.32 | RST38h | javisL GZIPped |
| 18:03.39 | RST38h | javis: Real easy to implement too |
| 18:03.45 | javispedro | RST38h, just confirming, the latter is more common. |
| 18:03.48 | GeneralAntilles | ZogG, different beast. |
| 18:03.52 | GeneralAntilles | Moblin targets netbooks. |
| 18:03.55 | crashanddie_ | slonopotamus, and I who thought the compiler version only influenced the library versions said compiled application would use... Oh my oh my, I must be a little stupid, thinking of symlinks and correct naming standards, I wonder... |
| 18:04.00 | timeless_mbp | moblin targets intel :) |
| 18:04.04 | RST38h | javis: ZIPped is harder to do and, frankly, harder to process |
| 18:04.11 | javispedro | RST38h, upstream does zip |
| 18:04.18 | ZogG | GeneralAntilles yes but can be ported to tablets |
| 18:04.23 | javispedro | but I'm fine with gzip, of course |
| 18:04.25 | RST38h | javis: Screw ZIP, it is not very interesting |
| 18:04.29 | GeneralAntilles | ZogG, to what end? |
| 18:04.30 | ZogG | also jolicloud sounds interesting |
| 18:04.37 | GeneralAntilles | ZogG, it's not intended for touchscreen usage |
| 18:04.53 | GeneralAntilles | It's also heavily targeted at Atom CPUs. |
| 18:05.04 | RST38h | javis: What I normally do is gzip the whole directory of roms to save space. All of my emulators process gzipped files automatically. SNES9x Windows version does as well |
| 18:05.34 | javispedro | RST38h, k k :) i was reading upstream " can be compressed with zip, gzip, or compress." |
| 18:05.49 | ZogG | GeneralAntilles yes but as it's linux you can patch it with maemo/mer patches on kernel and you can get touchscreen + 3g |
| 18:06.37 | slonopotamus | crashanddie_, ... what do you want from me? :) |
| 18:06.55 | crashanddie_ | a baby :) |
| 18:06.58 | crashanddie_ | :D |
| 18:07.07 | RST38h | javis: I think you get compress for free by using ZLib |
| 18:07.17 | javispedro | RST38h, yes, thanks, already using it for savestates. |
| 18:07.19 | RST38h | javis: zip is harder though |
| 18:07.30 | javispedro | a, misread. |
| 18:07.46 | RST38h | javis: So I would ignore zip for now and just use ZLib to transparently open gz |
| 18:08.48 | GeneralAntilles | ZogG, well, have fun. |
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| 18:12.53 | slonopotamus | crashanddie_, stop trolling and upgrade glibc to 2.9 in maemo :P |
| 18:13.02 | *** part/#maemo stv0 (n=steffen@dslb-084-063-115-077.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:13.27 | kirma | what package on N810 handles GPS, supposedly using Navilink GPS5300 chip? |
| 18:13.35 | kirma | driver, whatever |
| 18:14.01 | javispedro | kirma: gpsdriver . |
| 18:14.14 | javispedro | deb pkg: gpsdriver, binary: /usr/sbin/gpsdriver. |
| 18:14.25 | kirma | no sources? |
| 18:14.28 | javispedro | no. |
| 18:14.30 | kirma | ehm |
| 18:14.36 | luke-jr | kirma: nope, and it's buggy as heck |
| 18:14.52 | luke-jr | GPS on N810 is pretty much a lost cause unless we reveng it |
| 18:15.33 | AStorm | does n900 use the same chip? (hopefully not) |
| 18:15.34 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, shouldn't you be 'Luke-Jr'? |
| 18:15.42 | kirma | well, not too bad to me. I was jsut interested to look at something that *might* be the same source base as in N900... any information about that then? :) |
| 18:15.59 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: yes, but Konversation lost my config :( |
| 18:16.04 | javispedro | does /usr/sbin/gpsdriver exist in n900 rootfs? |
| 18:16.07 | luke-jr | AStorm: irrelevant? |
| 18:16.18 | luke-jr | AStorm: the chip is fine, the problem is the closed driver |
| 18:16.26 | AStorm | no, the chip is suck |
| 18:16.28 | AStorm | ;P |
| 18:16.31 | luke-jr | no |
| 18:16.34 | slonopotamus | no u |
| 18:16.35 | RST38h | AStorm: I can almost bet N900 will have a newer version of 5300 designed to work with OMAP3 |
| 18:16.38 | slonopotamus | :P |
| 18:16.40 | AStorm | 1.5m lock time? suck. |
| 18:16.49 | luke-jr | AStorm: that's the driver |
| 18:16.54 | luke-jr | the chip is capable of much better |
| 18:16.54 | till- | thats gps |
| 18:16.55 | AStorm | that's with assisted. |
| 18:16.57 | kirma | RST38h: maybe NL5350? |
| 18:17.25 | RST38h | kirma: Yea, sounds like the one |
| 18:17.38 | luke-jr | AStorm: GPS5300 is a soft-GPS |
| 18:17.51 | luke-jr | AStorm: the software does the real GPS work, and gpsdriver sucks at it |
| 18:17.51 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, convince someone to give me his n810 and i'll rewrite you that piece of crap :) |
| 18:17.52 | AStorm | oh |
| 18:18.01 | AStorm | indeed it does then |
| 18:18.09 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: rewritten stlc45xx-cal yet? |
| 18:18.14 | RST38h | luke: soft, shmoft, it still receives the signal |
| 18:18.17 | AStorm | slonopotamus, when I get n900? maybe |
| 18:18.26 | RST38h | luke: if it has got crappy signal reception, no driver will help you |
| 18:18.28 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, no, any need in it? |
| 18:18.29 | luke-jr | RST38h: the chip isn't the problem for the N810 |
| 18:18.31 | AStorm | RST38h, +ut the soft does the filtering |
| 18:18.39 | RST38h | true |
| 18:18.48 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: my point is gpsdriver will be magnitudes harder than the stuff you've rewritten so far |
| 18:18.50 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, rewrote cx3110x wlan-cal, however |
| 18:19.06 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: cx3110x wlan-cal does nothing much |
| 18:19.08 | AStorm | that's easy in comparison |
| 18:19.11 | luke-jr | just copies data |
| 18:19.16 | AStorm | those filtering algos are hard |
| 18:19.16 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, hmm. k, gimme something with moderate complexity |
| 18:19.28 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: like I said, stlc45xx-cal is a bit closer |
| 18:19.57 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, libcal, btw? too simple? |
| 18:20.08 | luke-jr | libcal is also just read/write data mostly |
| 18:20.12 | luke-jr | except for the CRC ;) |
| 18:20.17 | slonopotamus | meh |
| 18:20.21 | slonopotamus | i did it |
| 18:20.24 | slonopotamus | crc |
| 18:20.27 | SpeedEvil | Anyone want to shoot me strace logs of the 810 GPS? |
| 18:20.41 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: luke.dashjr.org/tmp has some |
| 18:20.43 | timeless_mbp | ooh, liqbase got more icons |
| 18:20.51 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: with it getting a lock |
| 18:20.56 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: I thinks o |
| 18:20.58 | luke-jr | think so* |
| 18:21.04 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: I'll have another look |
| 18:21.08 | AStorm | strace is weak |
| 18:21.08 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, crc was crap. there's more than one crc32 |
| 18:21.12 | AStorm | ltrace is better |
| 18:21.43 | Sho_ | luke-jr: "konversation lost my config"? |
| 18:22.00 | slonopotamus | crc32 isn't smth like md5/sha/whatever. it doesn't have single standard |
| 18:22.02 | kirma | I'm pretty certain the data coming from GPS chip is such that trying to get anything useful out of it requires quite intimate knowledge of GPS location calculations |
| 18:22.24 | ShadowJK | usually gets 10 - 30 sec lock on time with N810 gps |
| 18:22.26 | ShadowJK | (agps enabled) |
| 18:22.32 | luke-jr | Sho_: yeah |
| 18:23.04 | luke-jr | ShadowJK: for me, it's hit and miss |
| 18:23.13 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: with times - and outputs ftrom gpsdriver NMEA |
| 18:23.15 | luke-jr | sometimes it's a few seconds, sometimes 15 mins, sometimes days |
| 18:23.25 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: I don't know how to log times easily |
| 18:23.29 | Sho_ | luke-jr: I doubt that. How do you gather it did? |
| 18:23.39 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: strace outputs contain gpsdriver NMEA writes |
| 18:23.46 | luke-jr | Sho_: my config was lost. |
| 18:24.24 | AStorm | kirma, those are simple |
| 18:24.43 | AStorm | the problem is actually filtering out signal from noise |
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| 18:24.55 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, if stlc45xx-cal does some calculations on read data, i'm likely to need reverse-engineered info |
| 18:25.04 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: just strace -s9999 -tt -o file ... |
| 18:25.14 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: exactly |
| 18:25.21 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: ah - maybe I looked at the wrong file. |
| 18:25.37 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: I rather use the option to hexdump all write/read calls |
| 18:25.45 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, so? assuming someone gives it to me, i don't see any problem implementing |
| 18:25.56 | kirma | too bad TI doesn't seem to provide useful documentation for any of its GPS chips :/ |
| 18:26.01 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: reverse engineering something as big as gpsdriver will take time |
| 18:26.04 | Sho_ | luke-jr: And why do you think Konversation is at fault? |
| 18:26.07 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: gpsdriver is larger than BME |
| 18:26.11 | SpeedEvil | slonopotamus: GPS is _nasty_ and complex |
| 18:26.21 | luke-jr | Sho_: I don't care what is at fault: it affects Konversation. |
| 18:26.23 | SpeedEvil | slonopotamus: It involves lots of orbital math calculations for example. |
| 18:26.36 | slonopotamus | isn't there any C decompiler, btw? |
| 18:26.46 | AStorm | google will find some poor ones |
| 18:26.50 | SpeedEvil | slonopotamus: and added to that reverse engineering of a non-documented chip - which is also hard. |
| 18:26.57 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: I could write one |
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| 18:26.59 | AStorm | but the best one is in between your ears |
| 18:27.28 | SpeedEvil | slonopotamus: http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gps_f.html |
| 18:27.34 | kirma | orbital calculations and stuff wouldn't be hard, if the interface to chip would be sensibly documented |
| 18:27.41 | SpeedEvil | kirma: indeed. |
| 18:27.49 | AStorm | those are simple |
| 18:27.54 | kirma | like how it spews out GPS almanac and clock offset data |
| 18:28.01 | slonopotamus | AStorm, if pretending to be legal, i can't study closed source of app i'm rewriting |
| 18:28.03 | AStorm | what is hard is actually getting and separating those signals |
| 18:28.12 | AStorm | corrections aren't too bad |
| 18:28.37 | AStorm | you have to filter out a weak specific signal from a ton of noise |
| 18:28.38 | kirma | just hoping that if the implementation is closed source, it's a good one. |
| 18:28.42 | AStorm | and reflections |
| 18:28.43 | luke-jr | slonopotamus: decompiler output is the same as the bin |
| 18:28.56 | AStorm | kirma, gpsdriver is suck ;) |
| 18:28.58 | SpeedEvil | Stracing the interaction between the GPS and chip - with knowledge of the current satellite constellation and what they are transmitting can get you there. |
| 18:29.00 | luke-jr | kirma: uh, gpsdriver wouldn't be good even if it was open |
| 18:29.00 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: ping |
| 18:29.02 | kirma | criteria: electrical power usage, sensitivity, lock time |
| 18:29.07 | AStorm | hopefully n900 one is better |
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| 18:29.39 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: are there online streams of that info? |
| 18:29.43 | SpeedEvil | We don't know if reverse engineering it might help. It's possible they've just slapped together an implementation, and shoved it out the door. |
| 18:29.45 | AStorm | kirma, 1) is irrelevant, 2) is chip quality, driver does filtering 3) is bad |
| 18:29.53 | kirma | well, it N900 certainly should have the assist part of A-GPS implemented... at least eventually |
| 18:30.04 | AStorm | it does have that |
| 18:30.13 | timeless_mbp | kirma: it does today |
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| 18:30.26 | crashanddie_ | kirma, it says so in the bloody description |
| 18:30.28 | AStorm | but assist usually means just ephemeris upload |
| 18:30.28 | kirma | good to know |
| 18:30.29 | luke-jr | kirma: N810 does too |
| 18:30.30 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: the orbits - for the satellites - certainly - some parts of the broadcasts - the time - is easy - other than that I'm not aware of any actual source of over-the-air decodes. |
| 18:30.36 | AStorm | unless it's realtime |
| 18:30.41 | crashanddie_ | kirma, take it from a professional: if you're gonna troll, at least read up on the subject :P |
| 18:30.44 | AStorm | which is expensive |
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| 18:32.05 | AStorm | but you can't actually send sat location data |
| 18:32.10 | AStorm | so, real AGPS uses other location methods |
| 18:32.21 | AStorm | like, radio broadcast |
| 18:32.49 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: there are many sorts of AGPS - from the cellphone network doing most of the heavy lifting - all the way to only ephemeris uploads only to the phone |
| 18:33.13 | AStorm | yes |
| 18:33.18 | AStorm | so it means zilch |
| 18:33.29 | SpeedEvil | For example - simply knowing the cell tower will get you to +-20km - which helps a fair bit in locking. |
| 18:33.34 | AStorm | and any real AGPS will be unsupported in Poland anyway |
| 18:33.47 | AStorm | yeah |
| 18:33.54 | timeless_mbp | why? |
| 18:34.03 | AStorm | our cell towers broadcast nearest city name, for example |
| 18:34.14 | SpeedEvil | timeless: you know what satellites are visible - and almost their exact velocities with regards to you. |
| 18:34.25 | timeless_mbp | lack local operators providing agps? |
| 18:34.27 | SpeedEvil | timeless: this means the search space is very constrained. |
| 18:34.36 | AStorm | timeless_mbp, obviously :) |
| 18:34.37 | SpeedEvil | timeless: oh |
| 18:34.53 | kirma | I'm just slightly disappointed if GPS implementation stays closed... :I |
| 18:35.11 | timeless_mbp | kirma: you care because? |
| 18:35.21 | AStorm | I'm slighntly disappointed that chip docs remain closed |
| 18:35.29 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 18:35.32 | SpeedEvil | In principle performance enhancements could be achieved with open-source GPS. |
| 18:35.32 | AStorm | that wouldn't expose much if anything |
| 18:35.34 | AStorm | ;P |
| 18:35.38 | luke-jr | docs are really the main importance |
| 18:35.43 | kirma | AStorm: well, that's pretty much the thing |
| 18:35.46 | luke-jr | the current implementation sucks |
| 18:35.51 | timeless_mbp | is slightly disappointed that people complain about hardware specs to a software channel |
| 18:36.07 | AStorm | huh? where else? |
| 18:36.15 | luke-jr | timeless_mbp: I think to most, this is a "Nxx0" channel |
| 18:36.19 | luke-jr | not Maemo per se |
| 18:36.25 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: Though nokia distributing open-source GPS may actually be illegal - at least in some countries. |
| 18:36.26 | timeless_mbp | people are silly |
| 18:36.35 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: FUD |
| 18:36.53 | SpeedEvil | (GPSs distributed from the US have to implement the 60000ft/1000kt rule - or they are regulated under ITAR) |
| 18:36.58 | AStorm | SpeedEvil, so they will distribute a closed one and you'll grab an update |
| 18:37.05 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: and? |
| 18:37.14 | AStorm | SpeedEvil, that's hardware-enforced |
| 18:37.41 | AStorm | and this gps is 1Hz, too slow for any useful missle |
| 18:37.45 | kirma | how it can be hardware-enforced if the location decoding is done in software :o |
| 18:37.48 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: nope. At least not with soft-GPSs. The GPS chip does not actually know the position. |
| 18:37.53 | luke-jr | it doesn't need to be enforced period. |
| 18:37.54 | AStorm | heh |
| 18:38.02 | *** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:38.03 | luke-jr | enforced would require a TPM module |
| 18:38.10 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: And who said regulations had to make sense? :) |
| 18:38.12 | AStorm | true |
| 18:38.22 | luke-jr | distributing source is no different from distributing a binary |
| 18:38.41 | AStorm | so Nokia will still distribute their closed binary |
| 18:38.46 | luke-jr | the latter just gives legitimate people headaches |
| 18:38.57 | AStorm | and provide an option to install the open version |
| 18:39.02 | kirma | I actually doubt if 1 Hz rate of GPS receivers has anything to do with internal sampling frequency... in average |
| 18:39.11 | AStorm | kirma, it does. |
| 18:39.25 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: I'd want to get some legal opinions on that - if distributing the source with 'if speed>1000' - is equivalent in security to binary. But... |
| 18:39.35 | konttori | noticed jkks |
| 18:39.39 | SpeedEvil | kirma: there is a tradeoff between noise and update resolution. |
| 18:39.45 | SpeedEvil | kirma: update speed. |
| 18:39.45 | AStorm | kirma, noise averaging is one simple thing |
| 18:39.46 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: such a change is easily made in a binary too |
| 18:39.50 | konttori | 'preview' is from a really old firmware: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHa3AoNdglY |
| 18:40.04 | konttori | quite interesting he has such an old device |
| 18:40.22 | skibur | does kismet work using debian chroot? trying to get it to work. anybody tried this? |
| 18:40.37 | konttori | it's at least over a month old (some telltale signs that were added about a month ago are not there atm) |
| 18:40.45 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@25.84-49-132.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:41.05 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: 'All' (well - most) GPSs enforce this in firmware with binary image loaded to them. No action ahs been taken on these. If open GPSs would be viewed similarly (sanely) by the authorities is of course the sensible route. Sensible +ITAR may not go together. |
| 18:42.01 | slonopotamus | ITAR - ? |
| 18:42.16 | timeless_mbp | slonopotamus: surely google/wp can answer that? :) |
| 18:42.20 | SpeedEvil | slonopotamus: International Trafficing in Arms Regulation |
| 18:42.54 | AStorm | fun thing - make a nuke controlled by n810 ;P |
| 18:42.55 | luke-jr | could you maybe just claim lack of jurisdiction then? :p |
| 18:42.58 | luke-jr | GPS is hardly "arms" |
| 18:43.03 | AStorm | wrong |
| 18:43.11 | AStorm | it can be used for guiding missles |
| 18:43.12 | SpeedEvil | slonopotamus: The GPS limitations are right before the section on kick motors that are capable of dropping satellites out of orbit on towns, and right after the section on high-speed-cameras useful for nuclear bomb development. |
| 18:43.14 | AStorm | *missiles |
| 18:43.26 | luke-jr | AStorm: so can binoculars |
| 18:43.27 | luke-jr | <.< |
| 18:43.38 | AStorm | luke-jr, not ICBMs ;P |
| 18:44.01 | jaska | icbms are inertial for the most part i think.. cruise missiles can rely on gps |
| 18:44.03 | slonopotamus | meh. everything can be used to make harm. |
| 18:44.19 | luke-jr | let's try a GPS guided knife |
| 18:44.26 | SpeedEvil | jaska: the regulations are actually aimed squarely at ICBMs - over 60000 feet and over 1000 knots together. |
| 18:44.28 | jaska | terminal guidance might be gps-assisted |
| 18:44.31 | *** join/#maemo Komzpa (n=kom@mm-71-245-57-86.leased.line.mgts.by) |
| 18:44.44 | jaska | speedevil: sadly many idiotic gps manufacturers just limit it at 60kft |
| 18:45.02 | SpeedEvil | jaska: I know. |
| 18:45.11 | SpeedEvil | jaska: Wander over to #highaltitude :) |
| 18:45.33 | jaska | im terrified of heights :) |
| 18:45.35 | AStorm | still, it might be easier to just iluminate the target and preprogram a path |
| 18:45.35 | AStorm | cruise... hmm, more like a seeker |
| 18:45.36 | SpeedEvil | jaska: to the annoyance of people gluing cameras + GPSs + helium balloons together. |
| 18:45.36 | *** join/#maemo neillie (n=wdehoog@243-210-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 18:45.59 | SpeedEvil | http://www.ukhas.org.uk/ - pretty pictures |
| 18:46.34 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/ oops - new page |
| 18:46.35 | timeless_mbp | luke-jr: are you one of those people who doesn't think cryptography is a munition? |
| 18:46.50 | luke-jr | timeless_mbp: hmm? |
| 18:47.00 | luke-jr | compiling code is hardly cryptography |
| 18:47.04 | jaska | i think if it explodes, its a munition |
| 18:47.04 | timeless_mbp | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography |
| 18:47.12 | slonopotamus | SpeedEvil, they might make photos of 'hidden' areas |
| 18:47.13 | jaska | or can be |
| 18:47.18 | AStorm | it is, but is far more required for fighting corporate thievery |
| 18:47.19 | kirma | http://sourceforge.net/projects/osgps/files/ |
| 18:47.19 | timeless_mbp | > Since World War II, many governments, including the U.S. and its NATO allies, have regulated the export of cryptography for national security considerations, and, as late as 1992, cryptography was on the U.S. Munitions List as an Auxiliary Military Technology. [1] |
| 18:47.31 | RST38h | yawns |
| 18:47.44 | timeless_mbp | governments are funny |
| 18:47.49 | jaska | governments are silly |
| 18:47.57 | RST38h | So, that is why nobody can compile goddamn MIDP2 reference implementation. |
| 18:48.15 | timeless_mbp | jaska: sadly, they also hold most of the big guns |
| 18:48.24 | slonopotamus | RST38h, hehe :) |
| 18:48.26 | timeless_mbp | so, we try to humor them more often than we try to piss them off |
| 18:48.38 | SpeedEvil | kirma: the regulations are specifically hardware+software |
| 18:48.43 | SpeedEvil | kirma: software alone isn't covered |
| 18:48.51 | *** join/#maemo Komzpa (n=kom@mm-71-245-57-86.leased.line.mgts.by) |
| 18:48.55 | kirma | hmm. |
| 18:48.57 | timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: which/ |
| 18:49.34 | kirma | indeed, that could allow replacing the existing software afterwards, if it's not the original manufacturer that's pushing it? |
| 18:49.35 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 18:49.48 | SpeedEvil | timeless: oh - the ITAR regulations on GPS |
| 18:49.57 | timeless_mbp | oh, not crypto? |
| 18:50.01 | SpeedEvil | no. |
| 18:50.06 | timeless_mbp | because the crypto regs didn't care about hardware |
| 18:50.14 | timeless_mbp | software only was just as regulated |
| 18:50.31 | RST38h | One more compile and I have MAME working on the board, with input! |
| 18:50.35 | SpeedEvil | Woo! |
| 18:51.22 | AStorm | and 2f fps? |
| 18:51.26 | AStorm | *2 |
| 18:51.34 | slonopotamus | writes python bindings for his icbm firmware |
| 18:51.46 | kirma | I suppose OSGPS might be mangled to work with navilink chip... if one would have the specs for the chip. |
| 18:51.49 | RST38h | AStorm: No, runs pretty well |
| 18:52.07 | AStorm | like how well? (with sound) |
| 18:52.24 | SpeedEvil | kirma: yeah - that's not the hard part. |
| 18:52.29 | RST38h | Well, I cannot test sound because the headphones jack is torn off the board |
| 18:52.38 | RST38h | But the game play feels pretty fluid |
| 18:52.56 | AStorm | heh |
| 18:53.37 | RST38h | should run even better on the tablet |
| 18:53.45 | RST38h | the board is slightly slower than the tablet |
| 18:54.21 | AStorm | hmm :) |
| 18:57.31 | *** join/#maemo jadams (n=jadams@68.185.240.176) |
| 18:58.45 | jadams | I'm trying to get scratchbox/maemo set up in ubuntu, but ran into a problem: http://gist.github.com/181920 |
| 18:59.37 | RST38h | you have to install etch tools |
| 18:59.52 | *** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=CBabbage@uhartford236105.hartford.edu) |
| 19:00.47 | skibur | as far as the wireless on the N800, what is the sourcetype? |
| 19:01.44 | RST38h | ? |
| 19:01.48 | slonopotamus | parse error |
| 19:01.58 | RST38h | unask the question |
| 19:02.09 | slonopotamus | and then reask it |
| 19:02.27 | jadams | I have no maemo-sdk executable to install etch tools with |
| 19:02.37 | RST38h | Black Tiger rules |
| 19:02.44 | RST38h | jadams: A second. |
| 19:03.05 | jadams | ..."with which to install etch tools" grammar police |
| 19:03.32 | RST38h | Why don't you have maemo-sdk ? |
| 19:04.07 | jadams | I don't know.,..i'm trying to install it |
| 19:04.26 | jadams | because maemo-sdk install was what failed in my pastie? |
| 19:04.30 | *** join/#maemo EdLin (n=EdLin@securabit/listener/edlin) |
| 19:04.36 | RST38h | no, that should not happen |
| 19:04.50 | RST38h | when you are installing rootstrap, maemo-sdk should be already installed |
| 19:05.47 | jadams | I don't know what I'm doing here..I'm running maemo-sdk-install script, doesn't sound like I'm installing rootstrap |
| 19:05.56 | jadams | sounds like I'm trying to install maemo-sdk itself |
| 19:06.10 | jadams | but then, this is my first experience with maemo and I'm just trying to follow the wiki for ubuntu 64 bit systems |
| 19:06.26 | skibur | does anybody have kismet working on there N800? |
| 19:06.38 | skibur | need to look at the sourcetype name on kismet.conf |
| 19:06.41 | slonopotamus | skibur, luke-jr does afaik |
| 19:06.46 | RST38h | jadams: Ok, a moment |
| 19:06.57 | jadams | RST38h, thanks |
| 19:06.59 | skibur | o ok |
| 19:07.16 | slonopotamus | skibur, he has n810, but that shouldn't matter |
| 19:07.20 | *** join/#maemo else58 (n=else58@70.114.141.31) |
| 19:07.34 | skibur | it should work fine |
| 19:07.38 | skibur | just need the name |
| 19:07.54 | skibur | I'm searching online a the moment |
| 19:07.58 | RST38h | jadams: I can only find instructions about sdk+. In fact, I am using sdk+ rather than sdk |
| 19:08.14 | jadams | what is sdk+? |
| 19:08.18 | slonopotamus | is compiling eblopenbackend.c hehe |
| 19:08.32 | RST38h | a better sdk |
| 19:08.36 | RST38h | jadams: try sudo maemo-tools install etch |
| 19:08.42 | *** join/#maemo pjfloyd (n=paulf@AGrenoble-152-1-23-49.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:08.50 | jadams | sudo: maemo-tools: command not found |
| 19:09.55 | slonopotamus | sudo: command not found |
| 19:09.55 | jadams | nope |
| 19:09.56 | *** part/#maemo pjfloyd (n=paulf@AGrenoble-152-1-23-49.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:09.56 | luke-jr | skibur: ? |
| 19:09.56 | jadams | I'm on jaunty, and nokia says they only support gutsy |
| 19:10.08 | jadams | but I think this is an old doc I found |
| 19:10.17 | skibur | hello luke-jr. Do you have kismet running on your N8xx |
| 19:10.19 | skibur | ? |
| 19:10.25 | luke-jr | skibur: not at the moment |
| 19:10.54 | skibur | do you know whats the name of the packet source? |
| 19:11.03 | skibur | none,wlan0,addme |
| 19:11.30 | skibur | where none is replaced by the 'packet source' |
| 19:17.53 | luke-jr | skibur: with Gentoo? |
| 19:18.03 | skibur | huh |
| 19:18.08 | luke-jr | I run Gentoo |
| 19:18.14 | skibur | with N800 |
| 19:18.15 | skibur | o ok |
| 19:18.22 | luke-jr | on my N810 |
| 19:18.22 | skibur | yeah |
| 19:18.38 | skibur | N800/N810 |
| 19:18.43 | luke-jr | yeah |
| 19:18.44 | luke-jr | Gentoo |
| 19:18.53 | skibur | need to compare kismet.conf |
| 19:19.09 | skibur | o ok |
| 19:19.19 | slonopotamus | yeah |
| 19:19.21 | luke-jr | http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0 |
| 19:19.24 | slonopotamus | oh N810 |
| 19:19.40 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, can't you just show your kismet.conf? |
| 19:19.58 | luke-jr | source=nokia770,wlan0,wlan |
| 19:20.05 | luke-jr | but I know it's different for Maemo |
| 19:20.14 | luke-jr | why did my N810 just randomly reboot? -.- |
| 19:20.23 | slonopotamus | luke-jr, on charger? |
| 19:20.27 | luke-jr | no |
| 19:20.50 | slonopotamus | you were compiling gcc? :) |
| 19:21.44 | luke-jr | nothing actually |
| 19:21.52 | skibur | o ok |
| 19:21.52 | slonopotamus | started getting 'usb device not supported' since last month often :/ |
| 19:22.03 | luke-jr | strangely enough, I didn't lose my ssh connection either I think |
| 19:22.10 | luke-jr | I had Maemo booted.. |
| 19:22.24 | t_s_o | 4 download announcements for cumulus? is is the dev or the system thats messing up? |
| 19:23.26 | qwerty12_N810 | read the last line: "to overcome screenshot bug" |
| 19:24.27 | *** join/#maemo Komzpa (n=kom@mm-71-245-57-86.leased.line.mgts.by) |
| 19:26.19 | skibur | kismet + Debian chroot doesn't seem to work |
| 19:26.25 | *** part/#maemo EdLin (n=EdLin@securabit/listener/edlin) |
| 19:27.02 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@cpc3-oldh7-0-0-cust590.manc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:28.03 | luke-jr | skibur: Gentoo works |
| 19:28.13 | skibur | yeah |
| 19:28.19 | skibur | nokia770 |
| 19:28.20 | luke-jr | if you talk nice to it |
| 19:28.47 | skibur | when I used nokia770, kismet said that it needed to be compile with support |
| 19:28.52 | skibur | not going to |
| 19:29.00 | luke-jr | skibur: lulz |
| 19:29.02 | luke-jr | then you're screwed |
| 19:29.06 | skibur | hehe |
| 19:29.07 | luke-jr | try prism54 |
| 19:29.57 | skibur | nothing |
| 19:29.58 | skibur | lol |
| 19:30.08 | *** part/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host213-1-49-185.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net) |
| 19:30.12 | luke-jr | skibur: what is your host OS? |
| 19:30.29 | skibur | diablo + Debian Chroot |
| 19:30.33 | luke-jr | o |
| 19:30.39 | luke-jr | then u need magic sh powerz |
| 19:30.44 | skibur | wondering what maemo's source packet is |
| 19:31.27 | skibur | kismet worked with OS2008 |
| 19:31.40 | luke-jr | not really |
| 19:31.45 | skibur | well kinda |
| 19:31.56 | luke-jr | you need to stop wlancond service |
| 19:32.05 | luke-jr | and ideally reload the modules cuz they LEAK |
| 19:33.06 | *** join/#maemo gunni_ (n=quassel@xdsl-84-44-135-78.netcologne.de) |
| 19:34.06 | MrGoose | I've installed mer but I dont see the boot menu |
| 19:36.43 | MrGoose | followed this: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Installation#N8x0_Install |
| 19:37.55 | *** join/#maemo Federico2 (n=fede@unaffiliated/federico2) |
| 19:39.44 | lbt | MrGoose: what happens? |
| 19:44.05 | wazd | damn :) |
| 19:44.05 | MrGoose | well it reboots and shows some text on the screen about booting from somewhere |
| 19:44.06 | wazd | http://s56.radikal.ru/i153/0909/0d/0d6ea759f971.png |
| 19:44.23 | MrGoose | lbt: let me refresh and tell you what gets printed |
| 19:44.24 | wazd | javispedro: come back :D |
| 19:45.20 | *** join/#maemo vadi (n=vadi@120.210.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 19:46.30 | vadi | Is maemo 100% Free Software? |
| 19:46.41 | wazd | vadi: no |
| 19:46.57 | vadi | What parts are not free software? |
| 19:47.18 | lardman|home | we need a FAQ |
| 19:47.19 | vadi | Only GSM/GPRS/3G ? |
| 19:47.22 | wazd | vadi: what parts do you want to be free? |
| 19:47.35 | vadi | I want all to be free software |
| 19:47.41 | lardman|home | why? |
| 19:47.47 | wazd | vadi: for what? |
| 19:47.48 | qwerty12_N810 | Good luck with that |
| 19:48.02 | vadi | lardman, Because I value my freedom, as software user |
| 19:48.07 | lbt | nothing wrong with wanting it |
| 19:48.15 | lardman|home | indeed |
| 19:48.28 | lardman|home | I just wanted to know why, as some things being closed won't affect your freedom |
| 19:48.43 | lardman|home | basically as you won't be working on them, so they don't affect you |
| 19:48.59 | vadi | Which ones are not free software? |
| 19:49.04 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=slonopot@80.90.124.131) |
| 19:49.06 | MrGoose | lbt: it worked this time. I wasnt pressing the menu button |
| 19:49.13 | lbt | vadi: http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages |
| 19:49.29 | vadi | thanks lbt |
| 19:49.31 | lardman|home | is that current for the N900 too? |
| 19:49.32 | lbt | MrGoose: ah, well. If you don't press the menu button... ;) |
| 19:49.40 | lbt | lardman|home: no |
| 19:49.47 | wazd | vadi: as you said, you're ok with closed GSM |
| 19:49.47 | lardman|home | but gives the general idea |
| 19:49.50 | MrGoose | lbt: thanks for having me try again :D |
| 19:50.03 | lbt | MrGoose: enjoy .. and report back |
| 19:50.09 | wazd | vadi: so you're lying that you value bla-bla and so on |
| 19:50.12 | lbt | also join #mer aswell |
| 19:50.27 | MrGoose | lbt: will do |
| 19:50.36 | ShadowJK | http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages |
| 19:50.56 | lbt | ShadowJK: echo? |
| 19:51.02 | ShadowJK | oops. |
| 19:51.18 | lbt | ~free is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages |
| 19:51.19 | infobot | ...but free is already something else... |
| 19:51.27 | lbt | ~open is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages |
| 19:51.28 | infobot | ...but open is already something else... |
| 19:51.33 | lardman|home | ~free |
| 19:51.34 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, free is stuff might take awhile to get done |
| 19:51.35 | wazd | lbt: fail :) |
| 19:51.44 | lardman|home | ~open |
| 19:51.45 | infobot | open is probably illustrated instructions to open ipaq 38xx can be found at http://www.forthfreak.net/ipaq/open3800.jpg |
| 19:51.53 | ShadowJK | fail :D |
| 19:51.57 | lardman|home | hmm, think we can scrub that one |
| 19:52.07 | lbt | how? |
| 19:52.10 | qwerty12_N810 | ~free is also http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages |
| 19:52.11 | infobot | okay, qwerty12_N810 |
| 19:52.16 | vadi | wazd, After reading http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages |
| 19:52.17 | qwerty12_N810 | ~free |
| 19:52.17 | infobot | from memory, free is stuff might take awhile to get done, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages |
| 19:52.20 | wazd | lardman: leave ipaq 3800 alone! I'm serious! |
| 19:52.24 | vadi | I see I will not buy N900 |
| 19:52.26 | vadi | thanks |
| 19:52.32 | wazd | vadi: good luck |
| 19:52.34 | lbt | vadi: you're nuts! |
| 19:52.46 | mavhc | are there any completely open phones? |
| 19:52.47 | lbt | it's the best way possible to promote OSS |
| 19:53.00 | ShadowJK | Neo Freerunner is a bit more open :) |
| 19:53.06 | ShadowJK | But it only has gprs |
| 19:53.10 | *** part/#maemo vadi (n=vadi@120.210.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 19:54.07 | wazd | jeez, so many weird people out there |
| 19:54.21 | qwerty12_N810 | wazd: free or die :) |
| 19:54.32 | wazd | qwerty12_N810: yeah |
| 19:54.45 | mavhc | live free or die hard? |
| 19:54.48 | wazd | qwerty12_N810: no "hello", "how are you guys" |
| 19:54.53 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:54.59 | javispedro | X-Fade: ping |
| 19:55.02 | wazd | javispedro: http://s56.radikal.ru/i153/0909/0d/0d6ea759f971.png <- |
| 19:55.25 | javispedro | wazd: thanks a lot!! wow :) |
| 19:55.40 | wazd | or wait |
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| 19:58.51 | wazd | javispedro: http://s14.radikal.ru/i187/0909/48/8dccf0ef345e.png <- that's better imo |
| 19:59.12 | wazd | oh damn |
| 19:59.17 | wazd | forgot the corners |
| 19:59.31 | javispedro | heh. nice font :) |
| 19:59.50 | johnx | wazd, rockin' |
| 20:00.31 | wazd | javispedro: http://s58.radikal.ru/i162/0909/94/76b32e6fae31.png |
| 20:00.48 | wazd | johnx: awesome emu deserves awesome visuals :) |
| 20:00.56 | wazd | fuuuck |
| 20:01.01 | javispedro | heh. |
| 20:01.41 | wazd | javispedro: http://i008.radikal.ru/0909/f5/9f2f1b02980f.png <- there you are :D |
| 20:02.13 | wazd | goddamned, wrong again! |
| 20:02.26 | javispedro | hehe |
| 20:02.51 | javispedro | you also fixed a bug I had, since on fremantle the banner was black typeface over black background :) |
| 20:03.21 | wazd | javispedro: http://s52.radikal.ru/i138/0909/6f/1c31fa859931.png <- last one I think :) |
| 20:03.46 | Macer | blah |
| 20:04.46 | javispedro | yes, last one :) |
| 20:06.11 | wazd | javispedro: I can promote it in my blog if you want :) |
| 20:06.21 | javispedro | wazd: wait until I put your artwork for the next version and thank you in the about dialog :) |
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| 20:12.01 | javispedro | diablo extras x86 repo is broken :S |
| 20:12.14 | javispedro | Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/diablo/free/binary-i386/Packages.gz Sub-process gzip returned an error code (2) |
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| 20:57.19 | johnx | am I broken for wishing bash had linked lists? |
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| 21:03.54 | dottedmag | johnx: yep, it's time to switch to something else as soon as you want linked lists or hashes. |
| 21:04.32 | dottedmag | uses such wish as a sign to rewrite the whole thing on python |
| 21:04.39 | johnx | yeah, maybe lisp, but the whole script is just calling out to bash commands :/ |
| 21:07.29 | luke-jr | johnx: the difference beteen arrays and linked lists is primarily speed ;) |
| 21:07.41 | luke-jr | especially when you're talking about BASH arrays, which are probably linked lists internally |
| 21:08.05 | johnx | I just miss scheme |
| 21:08.12 | johnx | it was the only language I really *liked* |
| 21:09.18 | luke-jr | one of my favourite languages is based in part on Scheme |
| 21:09.27 | johnx | which one? |
| 21:09.30 | luke-jr | MOO |
| 21:11.58 | johnx | but man, I really love the text processing pipelines in bash :) |
| 21:12.09 | jeremiah | moo |
| 21:12.32 | jeremiah | johnx: You mean like cat file | awk | sort | uniq ? |
| 21:12.41 | johnx | apt-cache depends nano | grep Conflicts: | cut -d: -f2 | sed -e 's/[<>]//g' | xargs |
| 21:13.05 | johnx | and that line is only going to get longer :) |
| 21:13.08 | qwerty12_N810 | "head" ftw |
| 21:13.25 | johnx | and various combinations of head and tail :) |
| 21:14.06 | jeremiah | Yeah, that is a useful little one-liner |
| 21:14.10 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=valerio@bl5-197-9.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 21:14.34 | jeremiah | qwerty12_N810: Yeah, you can do a 'man head' |
| 21:14.40 | jeremiah | To find out more |
| 21:15.33 | qwerty12_N810 | I'll pass :) |
| 21:16.24 | johnx | actually, you might be able to save me a lot of work: Is there a good way to compile a whole bunch of source packages recursively aiming towards a goal. I don't want a strict builder, just something that will try to fill dependencies with binary packages if possible and fall back to source if necessary |
| 21:16.43 | luke-jr | johnx: { open my $xargs, "|xargs"; print $xargs $_ for map { my @a = split /\:/, $_; $_ = $a[1]; s/[<>]//g; $_ } grep /Conflicts\:/ `apt-cache depends nano`; close $xargs; } |
| 21:16.45 | luke-jr | Perl ftw |
| 21:17.18 | johnx | luke-jr, when the bash version is more readable you know you have a problem ... |
| 21:17.22 | luke-jr | johnx: Gentoo's Portage can do that |
| 21:17.37 | luke-jr | johnx: pfft, the Perl is readable |
| 21:17.48 | johnx | luke-jr, we already had that discussion WRT gentoo. thanks, but no thanks. |
| 21:18.12 | johnx | the use-case is that I'm trying to build something from a PPA for powerpc, where some of the dependencies are available as source from the PPA, but most are available as binary packages from the distro itself |
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| 21:42.13 | wazd | javispedro: http://s60.radikal.ru/i167/0909/6c/2c3d61f94e07.png |
| 21:42.42 | javispedro | wazd: unfortunately, I am using osso-games launcher so I can change the layout of the upper buttons |
| 21:42.50 | javispedro | s/can/can't/ |
| 21:44.13 | javispedro | wazd, but of course the idea is appreciated. in fremantle I'm going to need to relayout everything (save for the two "main buttons") |
| 21:45.34 | wazd | javispedro: oh, crap :) |
| 21:46.15 | wazd | you can arrange bootom stuff anyway :) |
| 21:46.49 | javispedro | yeah |
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| 22:16.50 | dantonic | how do I share files from ubuntu to my N800? can I do it over the network? |
| 22:17.52 | luke-jr | dantonic: scp/sftp/sshfs |
| 22:18.59 | dantonic | luke-jr, thanks but I'm not sure why... it hadnt worked till now, it just worked :P I just shared a folder, but I was unable up till now to copy files from my N800 to the desktop... could only view the folder, even though I set read/write permissions... |
| 22:19.03 | dantonic | All of a sudden it works |
| 22:19.05 | dantonic | not sure what changed |
| 22:19.20 | dantonic | are scp/sftp/sshfs ftp clients? |
| 22:20.23 | luke-jr | no |
| 22:20.31 | luke-jr | SSH file interfaces |
| 22:20.40 | luke-jr | scp is like the cp command, but supports SSH |
| 22:20.51 | luke-jr | sftp is a FTP like interface/protocol over SSH |
| 22:20.58 | luke-jr | sshfs is a SSH-based filesystem |
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| 22:22.02 | dantonic | I have ssh on my NIT |
| 22:22.09 | dantonic | but I dont know how to use it :P |
| 22:22.27 | dantonic | I've just been using the file manager |
| 22:23.06 | johnx | just typing ssh://user@your-NIT-ip |
| 22:23.08 | johnx | into nautilus is a pretty good way |
| 22:23.47 | dantonic | johnx, I can do this from the desktop to connect to the NIT, and can I also do the inverse? NIT to desktop? |
| 22:24.31 | johnx | for NIT to desktop you can use the built-in file manager for samba shared folders (already working for you I think) |
| 22:25.07 | johnx | or get gftp for the NIT to transfer files over ssh from/to your desktop |
| 22:26.39 | dantonic | how do I find out what my user is in this? "ssh://user@your-NIT-ip" I find my ip with "ifconfig" but what's the user? |
| 22:26.59 | dantonic | my prompt shows no user on the NIT terminal |
| 22:27.02 | dantonic | just $ |
| 22:27.06 | johnx | user is always 'user' :) |
| 22:27.06 | johnx | for the NIT at least |
| 22:27.10 | dantonic | oh ok |
| 22:27.19 | dantonic | duh sorry for dumb questions.. :P |
| 22:27.25 | johnx | on linux you can always use whoami |
| 22:27.31 | johnx | no worries. better to ask then continue not knowing |
| 22:27.39 | dantonic | well on linux it shows the user |
| 22:28.34 | luke-jr | dantonic: Maemo is a Linux |
| 22:28.43 | dantonic | yeah I know |
| 22:28.46 | dantonic | I meant... "Ubuntu" |
| 22:28.49 | dantonic | :P |
| 22:28.51 | luke-jr | :p |
| 22:28.52 | dantonic | ok so.. |
| 22:28.55 | dantonic | david@david-desktop:~$ ssh://user@127.0.0.1 |
| 22:28.55 | dantonic | bash: ssh://user@127.0.0.1: No such file or directory |
| 22:29.01 | luke-jr | fail |
| 22:29.08 | luke-jr | dantonic: GNOME or KDE |
| 22:29.10 | johnx | on ubuntu and lots of other distros yes, but you can always count on whoami and you can't always count on seeing $USER in the prompt |
| 22:29.10 | johnx | also: you might like homeip to show your IP on the home screen |
| 22:29.15 | luke-jr | Nautilus or Konqueror |
| 22:29.48 | dantonic | luke-jr, I am unsure... |
| 22:30.05 | johnx | dantonic, just put that ssh:// line into nautilus (the gnome file browser) |
| 22:30.18 | johnx | though I guarantee 127.0.0.1 isn't the right IP address :) |
| 22:30.37 | johnx | that's the "loopback" address, not the address for the wireless |
| 22:31.06 | johnx | look for the address next to wlan0 or just type /sbin/ifconfig wlan0 on the NIT |
| 22:31.07 | dantonic | johnx, ah |
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| 22:32.48 | dantonic | Could not display " ssh://user@192.168.1. |
| 22:32.50 | dantonic | Nautilus cannot handle this kind of locations. |
| 22:33.05 | dantonic | ip was complete tho |
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| 22:36.41 | GeneralAntilles | :roll: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=322869&postcount=100 |
| 22:37.11 | johnx | dantonic, which ssh did you install on the NIT? openssh or dropbear? |
| 22:38.38 | johnx | tend to agree with him ... |
| 22:39.42 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, his reaction is disproportionate. |
| 22:40.01 | johnx | not really |
| 22:40.37 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, been through the whole thread, then? |
| 22:41.06 | johnx | nope, because I kind of suspect it's a useless time sink and I have hacking to do |
| 22:41.26 | johnx | his reaction, however seems mostly fair in response to yerga |
| 22:41.39 | dantonic | johnx, I have openssh |
| 22:42.01 | GeneralAntilles | mostly just doesn't give a shit anymore. |
| 22:42.11 | johnx | dantonic, on your ubuntu box what happens if you open a terminal and type: ssh user@192.168.1.x |
| 22:42.29 | johnx | GeneralAntilles, same boat as you, but I don't torture myself by reading threads that I know are a waste of time |
| 22:42.39 | johnx | ...and then get cranky about them |
| 22:43.06 | johnx | it's not healthy to put yourself in situations where you'll be constantly angry without anything to do about it |
| 22:43.23 | johnx | dantonic, where x is the IP of your NIT |
| 22:43.48 | dantonic | johnx, LOL it connects... |
| 22:43.59 | qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: Alas, these shit blogs are gonna popup now. Nothing we can do except for sitting back, eating popup, and looking at the rubbish :) |
| 22:44.04 | johnx | dantonic, ok, good deal; try: sftp user@192.168.1.x |
| 22:44.18 | qwerty12_N810 | *popcorn |
| 22:44.18 | dantonic | johnx, I was typing ssh://user@192.168.1. |
| 22:44.18 | dantonic | not ssh user@... |
| 22:44.20 | dantonic | haha |
| 22:44.41 | johnx | dantonic, in a terminal: ssh user@192.168.1.136 |
| 22:44.54 | dantonic | it now asks for password for the nit... |
| 22:44.59 | dantonic | I dont have a password.. |
| 22:45.07 | johnx | in nautilus: ssh://user@192.168.1.136 |
| 22:45.18 | johnx | aaah, you need to set one on the NIT |
| 22:45.22 | johnx | it won't hurt anything |
| 22:45.33 | johnx | open up the terminal on the NIT and type: passwd |
| 22:45.52 | lardman|home | just login as root and be careful ;) |
| 22:45.55 | ShadowJK | when I tried that it told me no :) |
| 22:46.32 | lardman|home | really? Oh, I always do that |
| 22:46.49 | ShadowJK | re passwd |
| 22:46.54 | lardman|home | ah :) |
| 22:47.23 | ShadowJK | out of interest, what stage are your various dsp projects in? |
| 22:48.04 | lardman|home | dsp-tremor is defunct, I don't know enough about it to trim the memory usage down, and as I don't use it I'm not motivated to do anything about it |
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| 22:48.51 | lardman|home | dsp-sbc works fine, but I should probably look at DMA for the data transfer, or do something, as if you try to watch a video and use it the video framerate ~=1fps |
| 22:49.52 | ShadowJK | are transfers to/from dsp "slow"? |
| 22:49.52 | lardman|home | Am currently working on a proof of concept audio FFT thingie, and also looking at using the DSP's motion compensation stuff to do object tracking |
| 22:50.11 | lardman|home | ShadowJK: not super slow I don;t think |
| 22:50.20 | ShadowJK | eh, dsp has moco stuff? |
| 22:50.27 | ShadowJK | and motion est stuff? |
| 22:50.33 | lardman|home | yes |
| 22:51.07 | lardman|home | but all on the back burner atm as lots of work on |
| 22:51.15 | ShadowJK | wtf |
| 22:51.39 | ShadowJK | idct? |
| 22:51.47 | lardman|home | yes that's in there |
| 22:53.57 | ShadowJK | Oh, well, I was wondering if transfer speed/setup overhead is small enough that offloading one stage at a time to dsp becomes feasible |
| 22:54.38 | ShadowJK | or if it's like with GPU on PC, the overhead and speed of transffers result in partial acceleration not being worth it |
| 22:55.00 | lardman|home | I've not done any benchmarking in particular, but it can quite happily handle passing audio data over the link one way and sbc back |
| 22:55.44 | dantonic | johnx, tried changing the password... it changed it, but it's not working typing ssh://user@192.xxx.xxx.xxx connects me and asks for password, but the new password I set on the NIT doesnt work... I'm on my way out but thanks for the help I made some progress, I'll give it another shot next time I'm online |
| 22:55.52 | dantonic | much appreciated |
| 22:55.58 | ShadowJK | checked power use mp3 on cpu vs mp3 on dsp |
| 22:56.03 | lardman|home | setup is slow though, esp loading tasks |
| 22:56.05 | johnx | no prob dantonic. good luck |
| 22:56.12 | ShadowJK | mpbarely noticeable difference :) |
| 22:56.44 | lardman|home | ShadowJK: ah yes, there's also a simple mp3 decoder project, but I've not had time to debug it, and in fact had forgotten about it until you asked |
| 22:57.21 | lardman|home | ShadowJK: well if not power saved, it must free up cycles on the ARM |
| 22:57.29 | ShadowJK | yeah |
| 22:58.23 | lardman|home | unfortunately this doesn't help for dsp-sbc, as although the cycles are lower on the ARM, and I'd hoped that would allow better video decoding, it actually kills the video decoding completely |
| 22:58.55 | lardman|home | ShadowJK: what task are you thinking of? |
| 23:00.11 | ShadowJK | i(dct) stages in video decoding |
| 23:00.57 | lardman|home | probably better to move the whole stage off if you can, to save transfer overhead |
| 23:01.24 | lardman|home | but certainly doable, I'd recommend through a shared memory buffer (so the overhead is a memory access one mainly) |
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| 23:01.48 | ShadowJK | has no clue |
| 23:01.52 | lardman|home | you can also write to the framebuffer from the DSP if you so desire (needs kernel patch and slight alteration to DSP conf file) |
| 23:02.18 | ShadowJK | trouble is dsp doesn't fit well into existing decode designs |
| 23:02.26 | lardman|home | well on the arm side you write your data to the buffer, send the DSP a message, it does the processing and replies, you read data from the buffer and off you go |
| 23:02.36 | lardman|home | ok |
| 23:03.12 | ShadowJK | fine so far, but then you have to do something else on arm while waiting for dsp |
| 23:03.14 | lardman|home | one thing you might run into, is a lack of available TLBs (with the current memory setup) |
| 23:03.37 | lardman|home | well yeah you can do something else, or just block (as long as the DSP taskes less time) |
| 23:03.48 | lardman|home | s/taskes/takes |
| 23:04.06 | ShadowJK | hm is that why sound dies now and then, and memory allocation ffailures in dmesg? |
| 23:04.07 | lardman|home | but yeah, it doesn't feel quite right :) |
| 23:04.23 | lardman|home | no idea |
| 23:04.52 | lardman|home | well no, the tlbs are fine for the default setup, it's just if you want to allocate some large chunks of shared memory that you will run out |
| 23:04.54 | ShadowJK | what happens if you, say, have 4 threads trying to execute same thing on dsp |
| 23:05.39 | lardman|home | 4 threads on the DSP? |
| 23:05.48 | lardman|home | or 4 threads on the ARM? |
| 23:06.11 | ShadowJK | well.. |
| 23:06.50 | lardman|home | on the DSP you can spawn new threads if you want |
| 23:07.19 | lardman|home | on the ARM I believe that only a single process can access any given DSP task |
| 23:08.03 | lardman|home | which is probably why there are a couple of dsppcm tasks |
| 23:08.23 | ShadowJK | Say you only got one piece of dsp code, idct. In regular decode process it'd be of no use because it does something like un-huffman(); motion_comp(); idct(); |
| 23:08.40 | ShadowJK | serial |
| 23:09.20 | ShadowJK | but there's ffmpeg-mt, I'd imagine one of the other threads would find work to do on arm even if another one is waiting on idct from dsp |
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| 23:10.26 | ShadowJK | I would hope this would make it more feasible to just plug a dsp idct into it |
| 23:10.42 | lardman|home | well as long as you synchronise access, or use a single thread to control the device handle then I don;t see why not |
| 23:11.05 | ShadowJK | synchronizing it would be possible |
| 23:11.31 | lardman|home | would all these threads be running in parallel? Why? |
| 23:11.41 | lardman|home | decoding different video streams or the same one in parallel? |
| 23:11.46 | ShadowJK | same one |
| 23:12.39 | ShadowJK | ffmpeg-mt can within some limits work on different frames simultaneously |
| 23:12.45 | lardman|home | well I guess you could have a few different tasks doing different jobs then |
| 23:13.20 | lardman|home | but you might be better off having 2 identical tasks and sending everything for a given frame to them |
| 23:13.44 | ShadowJK | yeah but "everything" for a given frame is a gigantic task |
| 23:13.46 | lardman|home | or in fact an easier way would be to spawn threads from a single server DSP task |
| 23:14.01 | lardman|home | then you pass all your data through that task to the thread in question, etc |
| 23:14.56 | ShadowJK | the only reason for threads would be if only one single isolated part of, for example, h264 decode had dsp code |
| 23:15.42 | lardman|home | no, threads are on the DSP here |
| 23:16.01 | lardman|home | that's what I meant anyway :) |
| 23:16.59 | ShadowJK | I suspect for it to give speed boost, access to dsp would have to be serialized |
| 23:17.36 | ShadowJK | so that the threads on arm aren't all waiting on dsp to multitask on 4 frames |
| 23:17.57 | lardman|home | yep |
| 23:18.20 | ShadowJK | this is all very hypothetical anyway, and beyond my abilities and spare-time resources :) |
| 23:18.49 | lardman|home | I think the potential gains are far outweighed by the costs (time and effort) |
| 23:19.21 | lardman|home | c'est la vie |
| 23:20.06 | SpeedEvil | this is in the case of playing multiple frames? |
| 23:20.06 | ShadowJK | I was hoping it'd be possible to stumble on a idct implementation, and plug it into the idct in ffmpeg-mt with some locking to serialize it :) |
| 23:20.20 | ShadowJK | aren't you always |
| 23:20.25 | SpeedEvil | wakes up |
| 23:20.47 | lardman|home | ShadowJK: you could certainly try that |
| 23:21.13 | lardman|home | the idct is implemented as an ASM macro/fn in the DSPlib library |
| 23:21.22 | ShadowJK | atm I dont even know how to do a+b on dsp though :) |
| 23:21.25 | lardman|home | so yeah, why not |
| 23:21.33 | lardman|home | C code |
| 23:21.45 | lardman|home | the ASM is wrapped and callable |
| 23:22.06 | ShadowJK | or even where to get toolchain and how to use it |
| 23:22.09 | lardman|home | how large is the data you pass to/from the iDCT? |
| 23:22.28 | lardman|home | toolchain should be on the wiki, under DSP Programming |
| 23:22.36 | ShadowJK | heh, not sure |
| 23:22.47 | lardman|home | yeah it's there, the link anyway |
| 23:22.51 | ShadowJK | 16x16 bytes probsbly |
| 23:23.01 | lardman|home | ah that's quite small |
| 23:23.25 | lardman|home | would you not want to do the whole frame at once? The message transfers incur an overhead |
| 23:23.52 | ShadowJK | some blocks dont need it :/ |
| 23:24.17 | lardman|home | even so 12x16 is doable |
| 23:24.41 | lardman|home | basically you need to open a /dev entry and write() to it the data, then block and read() from it the results |
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| 23:25.12 | lardman|home | on the DSP a callback fn is called in the task when data arrives, and you call a fn to return data |
| 23:25.50 | lardman|home | there are other ways, for example either the arm or dsp can be passive/active sending/receiving, or you do it all using shared memory for transfers (though you still need message passing for sync) |
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| 23:26.03 | lardman|home | I'm happy to help with the specifics |
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| 23:28.37 | lardman|home | http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/G.711/ probably demonstrates the process |
| 23:29.06 | lardman|home | the code is slightly wrong mind you (this was the first thing I wrote), it doesn't handle the case of an odd number of bytes from ARM->DSP |
| 23:29.22 | lardman|home | as the DSP's smallest type is the 16bit char/short/int |
| 23:30.18 | lardman|home | ask_ is DSP code, test_ is ARM code |
| 23:31.22 | lardman|home | bed time, night all |
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| 23:34.27 | SpeedEvil | night |
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| 23:55.12 | GeneralAntilles | defeated steak. |
| 23:55.41 | johnx | GeneralAntilles learned "full"? |
| 23:55.56 | GeneralAntilles | Learned "I'm going to die now, thank you." |
| 23:56.05 | GeneralAntilles | The potatoes I bought were way too big. |
| 23:56.08 | qwerty12_N810 | read that as "defecated" |
| 23:56.20 | GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N810, no, that's tomorrow. |
| 23:56.21 | johnx | now *that* would be a neat trick |
| 23:57.06 | SpeedEvil | johnx: or food poisoning |
| 23:57.39 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, I don't buy my steaks from dumpsters. |
