IRC log for #maemo on 20090904

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01:58.06zerojayPChttp://maemotalk.com/2009/09/03/pixelpipe-coming-to-the-nokia-n900/
01:58.06zerojayPCGood shit.
01:58.07zerojayPCIntegrated into Maemo 5, not just a separate program.
02:01.00Hydroxidepoints out quietly to fellow USians that you can now preorder the n900 from http://nokiausa.com/find-products
02:01.58Hydroxideunlocked, unsubsidized, free shipping, $649 including free-giveaway bluetooth headset. sales tax was added for me because I live in one of the two states where they have a physical store (NY and IL) but I doubt they'll charge it for most of you
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02:18.01ShellEvilbastards.
02:19.00ShellEviloops
02:19.11ShellEvilslight thinko - I'd forgotten conversion
02:19.12shiznebitnokia has a store in the city ?
02:20.00ShellEvil(1.175*1.06*649) dollars in pounds = 495 - and it's 499 int he uk store
02:20.04Firebird$649 is way too much
02:20.30shiznebitmust be the cost to cover developing
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02:21.24FirebirdI'm hoping T-Mobile will be able to significantly cut the price
02:22.35ShellEvil$649 is about equal to other unlocked phones of similar classes price.
02:23.17ShellEvilAnd contract phones can be lots cheaper - if you don't count the cost of the contract or your provider provides sucky sim-only deals.
02:23.41ShellEviljust bought 90 days of internet for 10 quid. 3G.
02:23.55ShellEvilOf course - it is limited to 150M - but should work OK.
02:24.41HydroxideShellEvil: well there's only one US provider offering N900-compatible 3G, though it'll work on either of the 2 (yes, only) GSM providers for GSM/GPRS/EDGE, and on any european GSM provider for GSM/GPRS/EDGE/3G
02:25.00ShellEvilyes - I know.
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02:25.15ShellEvilHas there been any statement that t-mobile will actually be picking it up though?
02:26.15HydroxideSpeedEvil: in terms of subsidized contract offerings? no such statement except the speculation part of the rumor mill, no.
02:26.28HydroxideSpeedEvil: but this way, I'll switch to T-Mobile without a contract :)
02:26.38Hydroxidethey lose the lock-in
02:27.12Hydroxideand if another maemo device comes out within less than 2 years where I'm willing to pay a subsidized price to return to AT&T, or similar, then that could occur
02:27.22Hydroxidewith no early termination fee
02:27.42Hydroxideshiznebit: and yes, nokia has a store in NYC and one in chicago
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02:42.25Macerhm
02:42.32Macerthink i'll try win7 on the artigo and hope it works :)
02:42.45SpeedEvilhttp://imgur.com/OjHNj.jpg
02:42.50SpeedEvil(random)
02:43.41MacerSpeedEvil: heh. the circiles are hard to follow
02:43.54Macergood brain trickery
02:44.20SpeedEvilBack off the screen a fair bit and you can see them
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02:54.47divide_by_zerohithere. I have to go to this place that has a weird proxy... I can't use the internet there! any hints?... ho do I test the thing to know what is going on?
02:55.19divide_by_zeroI am supposed to use the automatic proxy configuration... and then there is a certain username and password i am supposed to enter somewhere
03:12.38zerojayPCYou can edit the connection to add those in.
03:12.43zerojayPCAs far as I know.
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03:25.51divide_by_zeroedit what?... browser about:config? connection options?... some /etc file?
03:26.56zerojayPCConnection options.
03:27.58zerojayPCGo to Connectivity options, click the connections button, select the connection you want to edit, hit the edit button...
03:28.13zerojayPCAll your proxy stuff is there.
03:28.34zerojayPCIncluding a checkbox for automatic proxy configuration.
03:31.22divide_by_zerook, I've done that... but now it seems there is one last step missing, where I would put the username and password they gave me...
03:34.34divide_by_zerohow can I test the auto-proxy thing? any magical address I can try to access with wget?
03:43.26Firebirdhm, the mouse pointer thing on the N900, is there a sensor or something to the left of the screen?
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03:52.56brbrbrwarmly greet everybody
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04:02.24zelrikriandohello
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04:06.02divide_by_zerohi
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04:11.00zelrikriandoseems like the n900 is set to kick some ass
04:14.43zerojayPCIf it gets out of the starting blocks at all due to the high cost.
04:15.22zelrikriandoat least it seems to be some interest in Canada about it
04:15.41zelrikriandohttp://www.itvendorsdirectory.ca/Online-Resources/nokia-n900-cell-phone-hot-item-in-canada--nyse-nok--nasdaq-goog-001.html
04:16.08zerojayPCHeh.. yeah, Canada will be one of the last places to get it, I'll bet.
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04:16.23zerojayPCEspecially with the Nokia store being broken for months.
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04:26.32divide_by_zeroso, what have been the greatest announcements in the nw09?... x9, x3, the ovi facebook thing?...
04:29.08divide_by_zerocya
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04:36.23Texrathaloo
04:36.42Texratempty again?
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05:45.59Corsacbwarf
05:46.11Corsacn900 preorder at $649 in us
05:46.18Corsacand 750€ in fr
05:46.19Corsaccries
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05:48.35aSIMULAtorhuomenta
05:48.42Corsacha no, it's 650€ too
05:48.43Corsacbut still
05:48.58Meiz_n900huomenta aSIMULAtor
05:50.55slonopotamus_Meiz_n810, -.-
05:51.04aSIMULAtorargh this is my mistake clicking on a youtube video fo glenn beck spewing his retardedness
05:51.09aSIMULAtornot a nice way to start the morning
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06:00.17Corsachmhm, is scratchbox2 usable for building stuff for n900/fremantle?
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06:10.42timeless_mbpCorsac: it should be, in theory
06:10.43kirmashadowjk: yes, the photo was taken by me
06:10.55timeless_mbpwe're not very good about supporting things, but that's a different story :)
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06:15.16Corsactimeless_mbp: so the preferred way still is scratchbox1?
06:15.33timeless_mbp"preferred" is such an overloaded word
06:15.46timeless_mbpsb1 is trying very hard to die :)
06:16.05Corsacespecially with only i386 support :)
06:16.15Corsacor is it only that the binaries are only built for i386?
06:16.20timeless_mbpi've heard reasonably good things about OBS
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06:16.48timeless_mbpif you don't care too much about how things work, you could use Mer(intel) + maemo.org's builder (for arm)
06:17.03timeless_mbpdepends on what you need :)
06:17.14timeless_mbpnote that i'm very carefully avoiding recommending sb1 or sb2
06:17.29Corsacatm nothing, I didn't really have time to hack on the n810, but maybe I'll find some time for the n900
06:17.30timeless_mbpeventually nokia will "support" "sb2", but that won't be maemo5
06:17.42Corsacbut don't want to mess with my host install
06:17.51timeless_mbpMer in virtualbox/vmware is your friend
06:17.54timeless_mbpmuch safer
06:17.57Corsacnot too much, I mean
06:17.58Corsac:)
06:18.08timeless_mbpi trust vbox/vmware much much more than sb1
06:18.15timeless_mbpthere's a real company behind both
06:18.38timeless_mbpthe performance isn't bad either
06:18.49timeless_mbpi mean, you aren't planning on building gecko, are you?
06:18.52timeless_mbp(or openoffice)
06:18.59Corsacpukes
06:19.17Corsacor maybe I should build maemo stuff on the touchbook
06:19.22Corsacor build TB stuff on the n900?
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06:24.44slonopotamususes occama razor and builds n800 stuff on n800 itself
06:24.59MacerCorsac: did you get a tb?
06:25.35slonopotamusMacer, how's printing from mer? :)
06:25.58Macergave up on it
06:25.59Macer;)
06:26.04Maceri'm just running maemo4 on it again
06:26.07Macerand sticking with that
06:26.19Macergoing to mount the n810 in my car once i get my tb
06:26.34Maceri'd put it in my truck but that would be pointless
06:26.59Maceralthough i suppose the engine status might look cool in the tahoe
06:27.19Macergoing to try win7 on my artigo in a bit hopefully it can install
06:28.04Maceri wish the artigo came with an sd reader that you can boot from
06:28.07Macerthat would be kind of awesome
06:28.15Macermaybe even cf
06:28.36slonopotamusMacer, you give up too easily :P
06:28.59Macerslonopotamus: i worked on it for a couple of weeks
06:29.07Macernot to mention the days spent on gentoo :)
06:29.18timeless_mbpslonopotamus: do you know anything about SUPL?
06:29.22Maceri just don't have the skills to do it nor have the inclination to try any longer
06:29.23timeless_mbpis trying to figure it out
06:29.36slonopotamustimeless_mbp, nop, what's that?
06:29.37timeless_mbpcan't find anything resembling a useful spec sheet
06:29.39Macertouchbook can print ;)
06:29.50timeless_mbpwhich is ironic given that it seems to have marketing people behind it
06:29.54timeless_mbpslonopotamus: good question
06:30.03timeless_mbpplease lemme know when you figure it out :)
06:30.06Maceri'd love to turn the artigo into an ap
06:30.08timeless_mbpOMA SUPL
06:30.09slonopotamustimeless_mbp, and whhy you need it
06:30.11timeless_mbpin case that helps
06:30.29timeless_mbpslonopotamus: because we have some stuff in the n900 which has strings that seem to be related to it
06:30.39timeless_mbpbut the strings are so obtuse that i can't figure out what it means
06:30.46timeless_mbpwhich is not why one has user facing strings
06:30.57timeless_mbpwe might as well stick random greek letters into the ui
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06:34.06timeless_mbpsighs
06:34.08timeless_mbpthat's clever
06:34.23slonopotamushttp://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/do_you_take_contributions-or_is_it-beware_of_the_leopard/ "there's superb support for creating OSS on Maemo platforms" wut???
06:34.26timeless_mbpthere's a thing that says "To use <x> you have to accept _our_ T&C"
06:34.40timeless_mbpexcept there's no indication of who "our" is
06:34.53slonopotamustimeless_mbp, http://www.rxnetworks.ca/products/gpstream-supl.aspx ?
06:35.28timeless_mbpslonopotamus: right general context
06:35.29slonopotamusand no link to T&C itself? :)
06:35.32timeless_mbpbut it's marketing drivel
06:35.36timeless_mbpslonopotamus: oh there's a button
06:36.18timeless_mbpbut that's not the point
06:36.22CorsacMacer: I pre-ordered one and *should* be in the september batch
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06:38.03keesjhi trickie
06:38.23timeless_mbpslonopotamus: ok, so, now that you found that page
06:38.30timeless_mbpcan you tell me what SUPL is or does? :)
06:38.39slonopotamussome crap
06:39.03timeless_mbp...
06:39.14timeless_mbpnot quite the answer i was looking for ;)
06:40.10timeless_mbpsighs
06:40.13timeless_mbpidiots
06:40.37timeless_mbpsomeone decided to install a laser into the satellite dish icon
06:41.00timeless_mbpthey didn't think anyone could tell the difference between NW-SE and NE-SW
06:42.42slonopotamustimeless_mbp, http://www.google.com/search?q=Secure+User+Plane+Location+White+Paper doesn't that thing explain?
06:43.04slonopotamusi'm on costly edge, so won't download it :)
06:44.38timeless_mbphrm
06:44.41timeless_mbpi'm reading it
06:44.50timeless_mbpthe first couple of pages are "target audience drivel"
06:44.58timeless_mbpif you aren't a telco, you aren't the audience
06:45.51slonopotamusbut nokia is
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06:46.08timeless_mbpyeah, i'm sure someone in some department read something like it
06:46.11timeless_mbpi'm doing this on my own
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06:58.05trickiekeesj: hey!
06:58.35trickiekeesj: how is your leg?
07:01.39thuxwas anybody in stutgart nokia world ?
07:02.46timeless_mbpi saw a video from there
07:02.49JaffaMorning, all
07:02.56Jaffathux: I was, timsamoff was
07:02.58timeless_mbpthere were a couple of people shown as being in the audience
07:03.07timeless_mbpso, i have to believe that there were indeed "bodies" there
07:03.15Jaffatimeless_mbp: Jay Sullivan was there
07:03.19timeless_mbpthey didn't seem to be particularly alive :)
07:03.28timeless_mbpJaffa: he has my sympathies :)
07:03.33thuxJaffa: is it true that ceo danced in the stage?
07:03.35Jaffatimeless_mbp: :)
07:03.46keesjtrickie: still walking with cruthes
07:03.50timeless_mbpthux =~ s/in/on/
07:03.51Jaffathux: I did not see that. So, I hink that's bollocks
07:04.03timeless_mbpdancing in the stage would be an improvement
07:04.06JaffaUnless it was at the party (but then I still didn't see it)
07:04.12timeless_mbpespecially if his body can't be removed at the end
07:04.14trickiekeesj: damn, well hope it gets better soon!
07:04.32thuxsome local bewspaper claim so
07:04.51thuxthat ceo did robot dance
07:04.52JaffaSome local newspaper is making stuff up. The videos are online of all the keynotes
07:05.05timeless_mbpthux: oh brother, local papers means loss of proper prepositions due to language encoding
07:05.24timeless_mbpactually
07:05.27timeless_mbpthat's not fair
07:05.44timeless_mbpeven i studied enough finnish to know that there's a difference between IN and ON in Finnish
07:05.47thuxnewspaper hs
07:06.48thuxsmall newspaper thou
07:06.51timeless_mbphelsinki sanomat ?
07:06.52timeless_mbphttp://translate.google.com/translate_c?hl=en&langpair=en|en&u=http://www.hs.fi/english/&prev=hp&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhj6irPc7I_HQg7cpBboY7l2kl-LyA
07:06.56timeless_mbpTranslation from English into English is not supported.
07:07.12thuxtimeless_mbp: yes
07:07.32timeless_mbpgot a url or title for article?
07:07.49thuxi read paper version
07:08.06thuxcause need paper to burn woods
07:08.14timeless_mbpheh
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07:09.04timeless_mbphttp://209.85.129.132/translate_c?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.hs.fi/talous/artikkeli/Kallasvuo%2B11%2Bmiljardia%2Bihmist%C3%A4%2Bk%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4%C3%A4%2BNokian%2Bpuhelimia/1135248994687&prev=hp&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhibkJT4LZ4dCNnp7NZz3iBZETdUQw
07:09.10timeless_mbpdid it look like that article?
07:09.49timeless_mbpsighs
07:09.57Captain_Picardseriously ;D
07:10.03Captain_Picardlearn to paste working inks
07:10.06Captain_Picardlinks
07:10.43timeless_mbpaww, tinyurl and friends mean dataloss :)
07:11.06timeless_mbpthux: please help google translate
07:11.16timeless_mbpit really has problems with your language :)
07:11.37timeless_mbpHänen mukaansa Nokialla on nykyisin 55 miljoonaa aktiivista palvelujen käyttäjää. In his view, Nokia is the current 55 million active users.
07:12.00thuxtimeless_mbp: it wasn't exactly same, wait i check do i still have that paper or did i burnt it allready
07:12.51timeless_mbphttp://209.85.129.132/translate_c?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.hs.fi/talous/artikkeli/Nokialta%2BFacebook-puhelin/1135248996408&prev=hp&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhjFrzXDRQhr4v7xUMX9Miq4nxT3gA
07:12.53timeless_mbpsighs
07:13.01timeless_mbpreally icky translations
07:13.20timeless_mbp<PROTECTED>
07:13.22Captain_PicardGoogle latitude is all i want for maemo
07:13.36timeless_mbpCaptain_Picard: ^^ just for you :)
07:13.53Captain_Picardi dont understand why they keep pushing new and new software
07:13.59Captain_Picardi got all my friends on google latitude
07:14.06timeless_mbp<PROTECTED>
07:14.08Captain_Picardits not like they will suddently all go for Nokia service
07:14.12timeless_mbpCaptain_Picard: "they" ?
07:14.28Captain_Picardnokia service only for nokia users
07:14.29thuxtimeless_mbp: nokia iskee takaisin älypuhelimissa is article
07:14.47Captain_Picardi dont like software that only works for specific phones
07:14.52Captain_Picardgoogle latitude is awsome it works on any device
07:14.58timeless_mbpthux: that wants a subscription?
07:15.15mavhcwhere any = some
07:15.26timeless_mbpmavhc++
07:15.32thuxceo came to stage doing robot dance if i try to put it in bad english
07:15.47mavhcI do want google to do maemo apps though
07:16.00timeless_mbpthux: i think there was a point where he moved his hands around erratically
07:16.04timeless_mbpi wouldn't call that a dance
07:16.13timeless_mbpso much as a guy trying (and succeeding) to look like an idiot
07:16.18thuxhehe ok i see
07:17.04timeless_mbps/(and succeeding) to look like an idiot/to look like an idiot -- and succeeding!/
07:17.06thuxrock'n roll will never die, nokia in the end of article
07:17.21timeless_mbpchuckles
07:17.27thuxso nokia rocks now :)
07:17.35timeless_mbpum
07:17.49timeless_mbpnokia is full of rocks, and built on gravel
07:18.06thuxalso nokia comics was there
07:18.12timeless_mbpnokia comics?
07:18.37thuxlike drawing what is the right word
07:18.55thuxlike donald duck
07:19.05thuxcomics isn't it?
07:19.24timeless_mbpdepending on context "cartoon" or "comic"
07:19.30mavhcwhat do they do?
07:19.31timeless_mbphowever as written, "there" was ambiguous
07:19.39thuxcartoon yes
07:19.44timeless_mbpdid you mean "in the newspaper" or "at nokia world"
07:19.53thuxnokia world
07:20.05thuxnokia do cartoon
07:20.11timeless_mbpand is "nokia comics [cartoons]" a company ?
07:20.34thuxno i think those who make phones too
07:20.48timeless_mbpa picture would be worth a thousand words here... :/
07:21.10thuxtried to search youtube
07:21.24thuxdidn't found anything
07:21.30timeless_mbpfound => find
07:21.38thuxyes sorry
07:21.47timeless_mbpno need to apologize
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08:05.54rmtHmm - are there any kind of online notification services already, which can pull/receive info from various sources?  Thinking of something which would give me (selected) facebook updates, twitters, system alerts from my server..
08:06.52RST38h$650, hehe
08:06.54Corsaclike online rss aggregators?
08:07.01CorsacRST38h: gnagnagna
08:07.12RST38his torn between preordering and waiting for a possible developer discount
08:07.20CorsacI'm gonna ask my syster to buy one for me and send it to me
08:07.52Corsacthough it's $650 excluding VAT?
08:07.59RST38hVAT? What VAT?
08:08.14rmtCorsac - I guess .. but really targeting small notifications .. and something you can push to also. ie - my server has an issue, so it pushes to the feed (with priority)
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08:11.11rmtAnd I can in a glance see everything, ignore it, or follow it up.. and of course sync between devices..
08:11.56rmtie. I may not want to see the notification for a matching article on my device, and tag it for reading later on my desktop.
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08:14.16RST38hAnyone with the real device willing to try VGBA and tell me what the framerates are?
08:16.50timeless_mbpCorsac: the USA doesn't have VAT
08:17.01timeless_mbpstates may or may not have sales tax
08:17.08timeless_mbpassume roughly 8%
08:17.13timeless_mbpand converting to EUR
08:17.15timeless_mbpit's <500 EUR
08:17.17timeless_mbp:)
08:17.36timeless_mbpoh, and, you get a keyboard which isn't broken :)
08:18.31timeless_mbpRST38h: how?
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08:19.51threshhi
08:19.55johnx$650 in the US from ...
08:20.22johnx... http://nokiausa.com
08:20.24threshwhat do i miss in scratchbox+sdk install made just now if my install lacks af-sb-init.sh ?
08:20.31threshi've used http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_2_sdk_installation/
08:20.48adeusessentials
08:21.21timeless_mbpgrins
08:21.26timeless_mbpis answering a survey in spanish
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08:27.13timeless_mbp<td align="left"><input type="submit" name="_NNext" value="Next" style="height: 1px; width: 1px; border: 0;"/><input type="submit" name="_NPrev" class="mrPrev" style="width: 116px;height: 27px;" value="Siguiente" alt="Siguiente"></input>
08:27.13timeless_mbp</td>
08:27.13timeless_mbp<td align="right">
08:27.13timeless_mbp<input type="submit" name="_NNext" class="mrNext" style="width: 116px;height: 27px;" value="Siguiente" alt="Siguiente"></input>
08:27.14timeless_mbp</td>
08:27.49JaffaErr
08:28.10JaffaThat seems bizarre. "Siguiente" presumably like "sequential" - means "next"?
08:28.11johnx~pastebin
08:28.12infobot[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste
08:29.03johnxI like that ~pastebin is really long enough to deserve being put on a pastebin
08:29.03RST38hjohnx: I almost guessed the correct price =)
08:29.14timeless_mbpJaffa: yeah well... yes
08:29.23timeless_mbpexcept in Fingnol it must also mean previous?
08:29.26RST38hjohnx: I assume that all this talk about 3G being incompatible with EU bands is wrong?
08:29.33johnxI was really thinking <$600. I even called $550 as the high end a couple months ago I think
08:29.53timeless_mbpjohnx: lol
08:30.02RST38hjohnx: I pretty much said it will be the same price as EU but with a different currency sign
08:30.07johnxRST38h, probably there will be a t-mobile US version and an EU version
08:30.16timeless_mbpjohnx: but using a pastebin would totally defeat the purpose
08:30.18RST38hjohnx: But EU uses 2100 afaik
08:30.22timeless_mbpwhich was to share this incredible experience
08:30.26timeless_mbp[ Next] [ Next
08:30.32RST38hjohnx: So as long as 2100 is there, it should work
08:30.35johnxRST38h: remember, there is more than one 2100MHz band ;)
08:30.47RST38hjohnx: Really? How are they marked?
08:30.47threshhmm
08:30.53threshqemu: uncaught target signal 6 (Aborted) - core dumped
08:30.54X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: ping?
08:30.56RST38hwikis 3G'
08:30.56threshdoesnt look right
08:31.00johnxt-mobile US 2100MHZ and EU 2100MHz :)
08:31.00threshany ideas?
08:31.02JaffaRST38h: What talk about 3G being EU incompatible?
08:31.22johnxJaffa, t-mobile 3G bands != EU 3G bands
08:31.25RST38hJaffa: krisse seems to insist that US N900 will not be compatible with EU 3G
08:31.39timeless_mbpRST38h: that's incredibly unlikely
08:31.43JaffaRST38h: ...without having seen or used a device; or spoken to Nokia about it.
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08:31.57johnxI'd love to be wrong
08:32.01RST38hJaffa: This does not matter, krisse has seen many devices before
08:32.04timeless_mbpRST38h: i have a colleague in boston w/ an n900
08:32.11RST38hjohnx: Let us ask Wiki
08:32.13timeless_mbphe intends to use it to replace his current phone
08:32.20timeless_mbpand he visits europe semi regularly
08:32.24Jaffajohnx: Yeah, but there were lots of people from Mountain View at Nokia World with prototype N900s happily using 3G
08:32.27timeless_mbp(to talk to telcos!)
08:32.41timeless_mbpif it didn't work, he'd be terribly embarassed
08:32.51timeless_mbpbesides, afaik, we've only made one radio version
08:32.55RST38hthanks, good to know
08:33.06johnxthen maybe it's both 2100MHz bands
08:33.13RST38hSo let us all go and tell krisse he/she is wrong! =)
08:33.15johnxor whatever the heck the situation is
08:33.26RST38hjohnx: let us just consult wiki
08:33.36johnxtrying actually
08:34.10wazdjohnx: RST38h: timeless_mbp: heya :)
08:34.20timeless_mbphi
08:34.20johnxallo wazd
08:34.22RST38hheya wazd
08:34.28RST38hThe 2100 MHz UMTS spectrum allocated in Europe is already used in North America. The 1900 MHz range is used for 2G (PCS) services, and 2100 MHz range is used for satellite communications. Regulators have, however, freed up some of the 2100 MHz range for 3G services, together with the 1700 MHz for the uplink. UMTS operators in North America who want to implement a European style 2100/1900 MHz system will have
08:34.38RST38hto share spectrum with existing 2G services in the 1900 MHz band.
08:35.08RST38hRogers Canada seems to be fucked.
08:35.17RST38h"UMTS coverage in Canada is being provided on the 850 MHz band of the Rogers Wireless network."
08:35.45johnxRST38h, not so sure: There's only one international version of the iphone, right?
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08:36.23RST38hjohnx: No idea...
08:36.33RST38hOk I think I have found what you meant: "T-mobile has launched a network in the US operating at 1700MHz (uplink) /2100MHz (downlink)"
08:36.55johnxyes, but those 00s aren't significant digits AFAICT
08:36.57RST38hSo, to operate on TMobile, your phone must support both bands
08:37.39RST38hjohnx: "a tri-band chipset operating on 850/1900/2100MHz, such as that found in Apple's iPhone, allows usage in the majority of countries where UMTS-FDD is deployed" <== iPhone
08:38.26wazdVlad doesn't have n900 for real btw :) Is it some kind of racism or something?)
08:38.47suihkulokkiso iphoney wouldn't get use the UMTS 900Mhz on my summer cottage :P
08:38.49RST38hNo, they are gold-plating his as we speak =)
08:38.53johnxmuch better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS_frequency_bands
08:38.56johnxgets wiki to give up the goods :)
08:39.06RST38h!
08:40.02RST38hOk, 2100 bands are compatible
08:40.39RST38hAnd N900 also supports 1700, so we are all set, the tmobile version will work in both US and EU
08:40.58johnxok, so a t-mobile US targeted phone doesn't necessarily work in the EU, but it's trivial to make one that does
08:41.08RST38hIt WILL work in the EU
08:41.13Jaffawazd: Is this another half-cocked conspiracy theory? ;-p
08:41.18RST38hIt supports the necessary bands
08:41.30glassdoesn't mean it is
08:41.31johnxRST38h, yes, probably
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08:41.39glassif it's made just for usa 3g it doesn't work in eu
08:41.41johnxin fact: very likely
08:41.55adeusWCDMA 900/1700/2100, EGSM 850/900/1800/1900
08:42.00RST38hglass: There does not seem to be any difference between eu/us 3g other than the band
08:42.01adeussays the tech spec
08:42.03johnxglass, financially it makes sense for them to only have one version
08:42.09glassRST38h: but there is, sorry :)
08:42.18RST38hglass: got a url then? =)
08:42.25johnxRST38h, same one I linked
08:42.29glassRST38h: some old urls yeah
08:42.36glassRST38h: japan 2100 is the same as eu tho
08:42.39johnxlook at the EU freq range vs the us tmo/AWS freq range
08:42.41wazdJaffa: that's not a theory, when one fremantle star admin has the device and other hasn't - it's weird
08:43.04glassRST38h: lot of nokia 3g's can't use the usa 3g thus there are those NA versions..
08:43.26johnxbut if they go to the trouble of supporting 19xxMHz 3G it's probably got the 21xxMHz band to match
08:43.27RST38hglass: is vice versa also true though?
08:43.56Jaffawazd: Then perhaps Vlad emailing Quim would be more sensible than you asking here?
08:44.15glassRST38h: afaik. some license bullshit iirc. it would make sense them to cram them all into one chip though to easen up logistics of production
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08:44.24johnxlook at what I linked: t-mo's 21xxMHz DL freq is 2110 - 2155 vs EU's 21xxMHz DL freq is 2110 - 2170
08:44.32glassyeh minor diff
08:44.36glassbut enough..
08:44.40RST38hjohnx: looks compatible
08:44.43wazdJaffa: I wasn't asking you specifically
08:44.44Jaffawazd: If you're talking about lcuk, his work requires hardware access (and he was working in partnership with Nokia for onedotzero). OMWeather can be developed in the SDK
08:44.50RST38hjohnx: there are different UARFCNs though
08:44.52Jaffawazd: Yes, but who in the room is going to know?
08:45.14RST38hJaffa,wazd: Folks, this is not worth having an argument about
08:45.16johnxRST38h, and if an EU tower says: ok, transmit on 2170 and your phone can't, how will that work?
08:45.29johnxglass, but if they're bothering to support 1900MHz 3G odds are pretty good they have the 2100MHz band to match
08:45.40wazdJaffa: It was more of a ritorical question
08:45.43glassjohnx: yeh
08:45.56glassjohnx: forum nokias device pages usually got that stuff well laid out
08:46.07RST38hVlad will get his N900 sooner or later, another month or two makes no difference
08:46.12Jaffawazd: IRC ain't the best place for rhetorical questions ;-p Anyway, if you meant lcuk see my (possible) explanation above.
08:46.40johnxreally it comes down to the bottom line: if I were Nokia do I have a good reason to have two different inventory pools? No.
08:46.55aquatixmorning
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08:47.10johnxI wonder what is the best place for rhetorical questions?
08:47.38aquatix:P
08:48.02RST38hjohnx: Not sure why you would narrow the band by such a small amount for a localized model...
08:48.29johnxRST38h, it's a question of what frequencies they were cleared to use I think by the FCC
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08:49.22wazdRST38h: well, developing and UI testing on the device is better than sending packages to Quim and wait for response
08:49.29johnxlooks at N900 pics, thinks the N800 still has a better stand :P
08:49.38Jaffajohnx: Yup.
08:49.49Jaffajohnx: And the multi-position of the N810's is even better still
08:49.54EgSmisses proper cursor / directional buttons on the n900
08:50.15RST38hwazd: Nokia does not owe anything to anyone of us, really, so I would not expect anything special from them
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08:50.26johnxJaffa, nah, not a big fan. maybe the n810 I tried had led a hard life but it always seemed to flop down to the lowest setting when poked at
08:50.36X-FadeJaffa: Yeah, N810 stand is a lot better.
08:50.58timeless_mbpEgS: the n900's arrow keys work fine
08:51.06timeless_mbpas long as you use English for the hardware keylayout
08:51.10RST38hwazd: If for some reason they think they do not want OMWeather (a Fremantler Star app) being up to date for the N900 release, it is their own business, why should we care?
08:51.22timeless_mbpwas never a big fan of the 770..n810 arrows
08:51.28EgStimeless_mbp: oh... I've seen the norway(?) layout recently which needed shift keys for up and down
08:51.45timeless_mbpEgS: surely you can find a picture of the English layout
08:51.49JaffaAfter a while playing with the N900, I ended up preferring the cursor keys over the d-pad for text editing/entry & terminal use. However, I didn't try it with any d-pad using games.
08:52.01EgStimeless_mbp: yepp... that's a relief :)
08:52.06wazdRST38h: cause we dont like to suck :D
08:52.08timeless_mbpnote: i haven't really played w/ many games
08:52.22eggonleahi guys, execuse me, but where can I find the N900 pictures? Are they real photos?
08:52.23timeless_mbpi've used bounce, but that uses the accelerometer instead of keys
08:52.31timeless_mbpeggonlea: google
08:52.47JaffaRST38h: Well, and the fact that (AIUI) the Stars were flown out to Finland to hold and play with some prototypes (when lcuk squashed his fingers in the door); and have been given access to design agencies to get compelling UIs; have back-channel support from Nokia on the SDK etc.
08:52.54RST38hwazd: As far as I can tell OMWeather does not suck :)
08:53.18RST38hJaffa: Again, it is not something Nokia owes to these guys
08:53.37RST38hJaffa: Nokia decided to do it for them. Good for them, good for Nokia (I guess).
08:54.09JaffaRST38h: Indeed. My point was they've been supportive on trying to get the stars ready for release. *One* of the stars used low-level hardware driving to get performance. The other's are all s/w and the SDK should be sufficient.
08:54.10eggonleawow, I'm out and 've thought n900 hadn't come out. :(
08:54.20johnxeggonlea, photos of an n900 or photos that an n900 took
08:54.25johnxstill looking for more of the latter
08:54.31RST38hJaffa: As a developer I can tell you that SDK is not sufficient.
08:54.38timeless_mbpjohnx: officially we're allowed to post such photos
08:54.49timeless_mbpand they will embed n900 in their data
08:54.55timeless_mbpbut we're requested to only post "good" photos :)
08:55.07timeless_mbpsince i'm not a photographer, that means, i shouldn't post photos ;)
08:55.08RST38hJaffa: SDK simulation simply does not work well enough to do any serious debugging
08:55.32timeless_mbpRST38h: if you've had problems, have you talked to nokia?
08:55.38timeless_mbpbecause this is really not the proper channel
08:55.49timeless_mbpthis is a channel about a software stack
08:55.49JaffaRST38h: As a developer I know what you mean. However, in that case the stars in question should be saying "we can't do what you asked us to do/what we said we could because the SDK is insufficient". Maybe they did.
08:55.51RST38hWhen I have problems, I report them to maintainers.
08:55.54timeless_mbpand you're *clearly* complaining about hardware
08:56.17RST38hIf maintainers tell me "known problem, will fix it some time in the future", I say "ok", try to work around, then just ignore
08:56.23JaffaI know I developed an accelerometer-based app on just the SDK and fixed it up with feedback from people who did have access to a device and were eager and willing to test (see tmo threads)
08:56.29eggonleaI just want to know if there are enough good applications on n900, especially those developed for Maemo4.
08:57.00RST38hJaffa: I am basically having a dilemma now between preordering N900 and waiting for a possible dev discount
08:57.03Jaffaeggonlea: Many Maemo 4 apps will "just work". However, many of them should be changed to fit into the new UI and Human Interface Guidelines.
08:57.13JaffaRST38h: Are pre-orders cancellable?
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08:57.27RST38hJaffa: No idea really. Also, NokiaUSA is a total ass to deal with
08:57.39JaffaNow that Nokia World & device launch are out of the way, the project team can concentrate on actually shipping with.
08:57.52RST38hJaffa: I would like to get the device as soon as possible to adapt all my apps and release them
08:57.52JaffaRST38h: I'd wait (I am waiting)
08:58.00RST38hJaffa: Same here, most likely
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09:00.11MaceN8x0blah
09:01.14johnxmust sell kidneys...must buy n900
09:01.27RST38hah come one, $650 is not that much nowadays =(
09:01.34RST38hs/one/on
09:01.40MaceN8x0johnx, haha
09:01.47johnxRST38h, trade ya' incomes :P
09:01.58MaceN8x0is it that serious?
09:02.23MaceN8x0xp wont work with my monitor correctly
09:02.38RST38hjohnx: be careful with what you are wishing...
09:02.41johnxeh, I'm getting by ok, but I doubt I'll find $650 to spare on an N900 in the next couple months
09:02.43MaceN8x0it is like 1400x1050
09:02.58MaceN8x0and wont support the res
09:03.00lbtThe N900 is a mass-market device. It seems likely that Nokia would provide some dev-discount to the maemo dev-community.
09:03.16MaceN8x0lbt, lies!
09:03.17RST38hlbt: the real question is when
09:03.34RST38hlbt: For personal use, I can wait for another 6 months or whatever
09:03.40MaceN8x0damn 1080p keeps chopping up in debian
09:03.57lbtit seems to me they (nokia) are getting better, not worse, at community support
09:03.59MaceN8x0topping out the cpu i'd guess
09:04.16MaceN8x0lbt, tell that to symbian devs
09:04.17RST38hlbt: For development, I do want to realse my stuff as soon as plain users start getting their devices
09:04.23glasslbt: yeah it's gottan a LOT better in the years i've done mobile work
09:04.24lbtI'm hoping that we'll get concrete info at the summit
09:04.41lbtI'll be taking a credit-card ;)
09:04.46glasslbt: corp-support too
09:04.48MaceN8x0lbt, maybe they will pass out n900s
09:05.05glasslbt: at one point forum nokia pro membership was quite waste of money..
09:05.13RST38hlbt: + I expect inevitable several weeks of delay trying to get non-free apps into the new Extras
09:05.48RST38hglass: Did it ever work though? Could you actually get support from live people there?
09:05.51lbtis relatively new to the mobile dev world glass
09:06.21glassRST38h: well i suppose it did, but the pro membership wasn't really the key.. but finding the right people in
09:06.32glassour ex firm had all-tcb certs eventually for s60
09:06.39glassbut maybe a year too late
09:06.41JaffaRST38h: Have you tried getting your stuff into extras-devel for Fremantle and through to -testing?
09:06.58RST38hJaffa: Not possible, my stuff is mostly closed source
09:07.19RST38hglass: ehehe
09:07.36JaffaRST38h: Right, but you could upload to non-free for diablo; have you tried it for fremantle?
09:07.48Jaffa(since you were asking about ppl with N900s testing VGBA performance)
09:07.53RST38hglass: the certs were really a way to shoot themselves in the foot for Nokia, from a cannon
09:08.02glassRST38h: so for a year i was just basically trying to find workarounds/telling my boss that i need those certs
09:08.03RST38hJaffa: Not yet, I hope to still be able to
09:08.29RST38hJaffa: I expect the diablo version to install on N900, that is why I am asking
09:08.36JaffaRST38h: I'm not sure who else is going to test it (as a scratch-their-own-itch kinda thing) if you don't :-/
09:08.40JaffaRST38h: Right.
09:09.29RST38hJaffa: it may even run, as long as N900 still uses 16bpp display
09:09.50RST38h32bpp will require porting some new code from symbian and a recompile
09:11.45RST38hglass: fortunately, I got by without having to request any certs, the only collateral damage was the filetype recognizer (supposed to run at system startup in Symbian, needs a cert)
09:12.09aol_glass: even now it's waste of money
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09:13.07timeless_mbpi'm pretty sure i know one person at FN dedicated to Maemo
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09:13.30kirmaRST38h: are you sure the hardware doesn't support dithering?
09:13.38RST38hkirma: Yes.
09:13.44kirmahum
09:13.52RST38hkirma: You know of any hardware that supports dithering? :)
09:13.57glassaol_: yeh.. since it doesn't really bring anything one wouldn't get otherwise
09:14.14glassaol_: dunno though if it's good for getting free tickets to some events or such
09:14.40aol_glass: "yay!" :)
09:14.56kirmaRST38h: depends on what kind of dithering you mean. intel chipsets support dithering of framebuffer from higher amount of color bits to lower, like different values for different frames that is
09:14.57glassaol_: with event tickets going 700-1000e it's not so bad a deal :D
09:15.09glassif one doesn't get invites secured
09:15.25kirmaand I suppose many others too
09:15.26aol_nokia dev summit was 200 euros this year
09:15.29RST38hkirma: Well, it is not an intel chipset and what is more important, it has not got that many pixels to work with :)
09:15.31glassthats not bad
09:15.38aol_and rest of the trip was 1500 euros :)
09:15.47glassaol_: 3gsm was 700e when i was there.. without invites
09:15.49RST38hkirma: Why use dithering on anything >8bpp?
09:15.51aol_so atleast that one the tickets would have been peanuts
09:16.04roopehttp://www.flickr.com/groups/1184299@N24/pool/    :)
09:16.04glasswe slept outside barca so it was a pretty cheap trip compared to what it could've been
09:16.20aol_glass: heh dev summit was in Monaco :)
09:16.24glasshehe yeh
09:16.27glassso 200 nothing
09:16.34kirmarst38h: if the display has 16 bpp, you can get one or two bits per pixel in effect by showing different 16 bpp values on the pixel at different times
09:16.42kirmait actually works and is quite visible difference
09:17.13RST38hroope: A'ok! We have got some samples!
09:17.32RST38hkirma: 16bpp is really enough for my apps :)
09:17.38aol_glass: but I don't think i will be going next year... there must be events that make more sense than nokia dev summit ...
09:17.45kirmaon gradients it can be really annoying
09:18.03RST38hkirma: GBA is 15bpp, MSX is no higher than 8bpp, and Spectrum is whopping 4bpp
09:18.19RST38hkirma: TI85 is 2bpp.
09:19.03glassaol_: lemme know which seems ok and i'll bitch to go
09:19.11rooperst38h: Yes. It's all preproduction and so on.
09:19.22RST38hroope: Let the pixel peeping and complaints about the noise start! =)
09:19.22kirmamostly talking about netbooks and (at least some) apple laptop displays, that hide their 16 bpp-ness with temporal dithering
09:19.31glassaol_: it's the evening get togethers of people that matter that really matter in those i've noticed
09:19.52aol_glass: the dev summit was fine entertainmentwise :) I met lot of people and got contacts and had lots of fun :)
09:19.53roopeWell, as for instance from Tigerts photos, you can take pretty nice photos with it.
09:19.59kirmawhen people have grown into having 24bpp, seeing the content on 16bpp is really disturbing much of the time ;>
09:20.02RST38hkirma: Ah, that...My Toshiba does not do it very well, it still looks washed out. And so does Lenovo
09:20.02glassaol_: the symbian thing in london.. i maybe spent 4 hours at the show itself, but it was worth the trip
09:20.06aol_glass: just not much developmentwise
09:20.16RST38hkirma: 24bpp only comes useful for photos really
09:20.30glassaol: the dev thing in st petersburg was waste of time
09:20.33timeless_mbproope: that's because tigert knows how to take photos :)
09:20.40timeless_mbproope: btw...
09:20.46timeless_mbpcould you please slap the icon artists for me
09:20.46glassaol: too.. hmm. pinnallinen in the presentations
09:20.48RST38hkirma: The rest (office, games, development) works very well in 16bpp
09:20.54roopetimeless: Yes, that's the point.
09:20.58timeless_mbpthey can't keep NW-SE and NE-SW straight
09:21.18kirmarst38h: and gradients. 24bpp -> 16 bpp clamped gradients look horrible, especially if they're not plain black and white
09:21.20roopetimeless: Well, also the globe isn't exactly round. :)
09:21.41kirmathen again, a lot of these ditherings could be really done on applications without users noticing...
09:22.12RST38hkirma: I do not look at gradients for living :)
09:22.37kirmaI just fear effects on user experience for those that compare with iphone or something.
09:22.48RST38hroope: ok, it is not going to take any prizes for picture quality, but looks ok for quick pictures on the run
09:23.04dnearyHi
09:23.11rooperst38h: I'm fairly pleased with it, actually.
09:23.18roopeAlso the videos. Those kick ass, actually.
09:23.20RST38hroope: looks ok for a phone
09:23.21roopeHave to upload some of them.
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09:23.49RST38hroope: what happens in low light by the way? does it behave more like n95 or like 58080?
09:23.51RST38h5800
09:24.13roopehttp://www.flickr.com/photos/rainisto/3845199970/in/pool-1184299@N24  for instance.
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09:25.29RST38hroope: that's too difficult picture for a phone
09:25.35roopeBut yes, you can also take really crappy photos with it, in poor lighting conditions. But just like with any small digital camera.
09:26.03wazd"nice 80s effect to the light." - lawl)))
09:26.18wazdThat's "fingerprints all over the place" effect :D
09:26.26RST38hwazd: no
09:26.52RST38hwazd: if you mean the window picture, the camera can't handle the contrast between light and darkness
09:26.57roopeBut on the other hand, in really good lighting conditions (like some of my wheat field shots) I think it takes a nice pic.
09:27.04johnxholy craps. this is quite impressive
09:27.19wazdyeah, lighting is great
09:27.21ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, wow, just clicked on your HS googletranslated link. THe translation is very impressive
09:27.28RST38hwazd: a cheap samsung will produce the same effect :)
09:27.45wazdI have fingerprints on photos during crazy drunk parties even with my D-SLR :P
09:28.00RST38htaking DSLR to drunk parties? oh nooo
09:28.01lcukyou let people touch your lens o_O
09:28.04glasswell what better way to sign photos :D
09:28.26wazdlcuk: mostly I touch em accidently
09:28.32RST38hroope: macro photos look really nice =)
09:28.45wazdRST38h: other cameras just can't handle low lighting :)
09:28.53rooperst38h: Yes, macros are really fun.
09:29.11RST38hwazd: Try a high contrast photo (like, shadows on the white tiles on sunny days)
09:29.18roopeBut it's not the best camera in the world by any means. But N900 isn't really a camera focused device, so having even this quality is a really nice thing.
09:29.28RST38hwazd: Your DSLR will do just fine, my Casio will screw it :)
09:29.29tigertroope: the "sunlight" photo of yours might have a bit greasy lens
09:29.45roopetigert: yup.
09:29.52tigertroope: at least my N95 did this, if I didnt wipe the glass before (easy to get grease on the glass, it makes smudge flares like that)
09:30.00roopeThey're cool, occasionally. :)
09:30.04RST38hwazd: Ironically, N900 will screw it less than Casio, I think ;)
09:30.10roopeTake photos like Dean Collins in the 80's. ;)
09:30.16tigert;)
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09:30.22wazdn900 has that "oil painting" effect
09:30.29wazdI don't know how and why
09:30.42RST38hoil from fingers covering the lense? =)
09:30.50wazdnoise cancelling maybe
09:30.51tigertwazd: noise reduction - though recent firmwares have tuned it better
09:31.01tigertit was pretty scary a while ago
09:31.05kirmait's obviously a side effect of the algorithm trying to find balance between different kind of noise reduction parameters
09:31.12wazdtigert: yeah, saw that :D
09:31.16kirmalike sharpness and color precision
09:31.22tigerthence the disclaimer in the group - not final image quality
09:31.34tigertstill the photos amaze me every now and then
09:31.38roopeStill. It's not crap! ;)
09:31.40RST38hkirma: is this user tunable by the way? =)
09:31.48wazdbetter have an option to turn it off completely
09:31.51kirmaI don't know
09:32.01tigertwazd: nah, all cameras do postprocessing
09:32.01RST38hroope: Make it user tunable!!! =)
09:32.08tigertraw data is just utter crap from the ccd
09:32.24wazdtigert: well, save in .tiff :)
09:32.28kirmabut if you can get *raw* image from the camera, know exactly what it means and have a algorithm, there you go :)
09:32.33rooperst38h: I have no idea how easy it would to be then hack it.
09:32.37tigertwazd: still
09:32.47RST38htigert: I am sure you will find at least one (most likely more) community members interested in raw data
09:32.52kirmafeels a bit sympathetic for camera folks at nokia
09:32.58wazdRST38h: I am :)
09:33.06kirmaI've got the impression they're chronically understaffed there
09:33.06wazdMy friends would kill me though :D
09:33.08tigertRST38h: sure
09:33.11RST38htigert: So, makes total sense to make it semihackable
09:33.23RST38htigert: Someone may come up with a better set of algorithms after all
09:33.26wazdI'm taking photos and then tune em for a week :)
09:33.32roopeThe videos with recent SW are much more a relevation. They're really good.
09:33.37tigertwonders if gst could be hacked for that
09:33.48tigertwazd: I do that too with my SLR
09:33.53tigertwazd: I know what you mean
09:33.59RST38htweakers.
09:34.00roopeCompared to the stuff that mobile phones traditionally take.
09:34.02tigertwazd: then again, I dont want to do it all the time
09:34.15tigertwazd: thus I snap photos with n900 and stick them to flickr while walking around
09:34.24tigertthose look pretty amazing in web size
09:34.28tigertthats the important goal I guess
09:34.32wazdtigert: yep, it's nic
09:34.34wazdnice*
09:34.50tigertsnap the moment -stuff
09:34.59ShadowJKI'm surprised nobody has yet questioned the lens cover
09:35.11kirmaphoto demosaicing and noise reduction are quite active fields, and need plenty of signal processing and information theory knowledge to contribute something really new and fancy...
09:35.15tigerthttp://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/3582685942/in/pool-1184299@N24/ < like this, when I was walking the dog one evening
09:36.14JaffaShadowJK: "questioned"?
09:36.25timeless_mbptigert: is that geotagged?
09:36.43timeless_mbpah, it is
09:36.44timeless_mbpnice
09:36.59nomisdang. I want a N900.
09:37.01ShadowJKJaffa, well the N97 lens cover looks vaguely similar, and the N97 owners report it scratches the lens :)
09:37.04nomiswants to go mapping.
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09:37.18RST38hkirma: Just applying existing algorithms in a way not considered by Nokians may help
09:37.23tigertShadowJK: if you stuff sand in there
09:37.30RST38hkirma: There is a lot of ways you can apply this stuff after all
09:37.49wazdlol. Just saw Photoshop tab in Firefox (with same icon and title, showing help) - first thought "What the fuck..."
09:38.39RST38hwazd: I wouldn't worry until I see Photoshop tab when opening the fridge...
09:38.44kirmagetting raw image data from the sensor in addition to the JPEG would be beneficial for post-processing, certainly
09:39.03RST38hwazd: That would be a sign tat you need a vacation =)
09:39.04X-Fadetigert: yeah, very nice.
09:39.15timeless_mbphttp://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=cache:lmgtfy.com
09:40.01johnxtimeless, help I'm trapped in help I'm trapped in a help I'm trapped in a
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09:40.20ShadowJKtigert, people suspect it's one of those unexplainable mysteries though :)
09:40.42ShadowJKLike how even if you keep your 6230 in a drawer, dust will mysteriously appear on the inside of the screen
09:40.45RST38hShadowJK: Of course it is a conspiracy
09:40.46ShadowJK:)
09:40.55kirmaif I remember right, Symbian camera interfaces haven't really allowed getting raw images, although they have offered non-JPEG formats... so, everything that has been available has been at least demosaiced, noise-reduced and geometry-corrected
09:40.57RST38hShadowJK: Nokia scratces your lenses to make you buy their next model
09:41.03johnxsooo, you guys don't cover your cameras in sand? :confused:
09:41.14tigertShadowJK: :)
09:42.09wazdbtw, any n900 shots on the fast move?
09:42.16tigertfast move?
09:42.22wazdtrain or something
09:42.31Corsacthey're too blurred
09:42.32wazdare the photos bended?
09:42.36Corsacdamn.
09:42.50tigertshould take some video from propeller planes
09:42.57tigertthat will show how the shutter works
09:43.00kirmawithout physical shutter, I suspect they're bended
09:43.01tigertI havent actually tried
09:43.02timeless_mbptigert: did kate/karolina ?
09:43.12tigerttimeless_mbp: no idea
09:43.19tigertvery likely
09:43.38timeless_mbpso, fwiw our iso options are 100, 200, 400, and auto
09:43.45timeless_mbpif you're looking for 1600, i'd suggest a Canon
09:43.50timeless_mbpor Nikon
09:44.07Corsacand which aperture?
09:44.18timeless_mbpwe do have an action mode
09:44.21timeless_mbpand you can tweak stuff
09:44.55tigertthinks n900 is the best "phone camera" he has used
09:45.02AStormkirma: nah
09:45.13timeless_mbptigert: the last one i used was ~4 yrs ago
09:45.18AStormthe camera is fast enough, it's likely the same as in N95
09:45.37timeless_mbpthe n95 iirc isn't 5mp
09:45.42tigerti like this better than my n95
09:45.46timeless_mbpoh, it is
09:46.00timeless_mbpbut yeah, the camera quality from the n900 is definitely better than the n95
09:46.04tigertmegapixels are bogus crap anyway - its got enough for this use
09:46.19tigertsure its nice to have 20 megapixels for print production use
09:46.32timeless_mbpif the pixels are any good
09:46.36timeless_mbpwhich in general they aren't :)
09:46.39tigertbut its slightly different case, for posting to facebook and flickr and such the small images quality is what matters anyway
09:46.52timeless_mbpyep
09:47.21kirmanoticed that Canon 50D with the stock lens is practically never able to take photos where blots of less than four pixels would stand out
09:47.22timeless_mbpi was only looking because it's slightly unfair to compare a camera from the 2mp generation to one from the 5mp generation
09:47.24Corsactimeless_mbp: what's the aperture? :)
09:47.32kirmaand that's some serious optics already in comparison to... phones.
09:47.33timeless_mbpCorsac: i'm not photo major
09:47.47timeless_mbpthat was my sister
09:47.50Corsachmh and not spec sheet tells that, I guess,
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09:49.30tigertCorsac: apertures are kinda crazy on small-sensor cameras when compared to slr's etc
09:49.43Corsacyeah, that's why I ask :)
09:50.01tigerthowever it makes _some_ nice depth of field blur when doing macro shots
09:50.53tigerthttp://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/3878934526/in/pool-1184299@N24/
09:51.16nomisheh, the frankenkamera is based on the N95 sensor: http://graphics.stanford.edu/projects/camera-2.0/
09:51.30timeless_mbptigert: *wow*
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09:52.12tigertnomis: binoculars make fun adhoc frankenlens btw
09:52.30tigertnomis: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/3797163415/
09:52.52nomistigert: nice!  :)
09:53.26tigertlunchtime overdue, biam
09:55.21Corsachmmh, no exif data
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09:58.07JaffaCorsac: I noticed there was an option to strip data when you uploaded to services
09:58.43Corsacon n900 or on flickr?
09:58.53CorsacI guess the former?
09:59.03Corsacsince the upload is automagic from the picture app, I guess
09:59.43JaffaCorsac: There's a "sharing services" API. With flickr, Facebook and Ovi available (either built-in or on the repos - I forget). Pixelpipe'll add loads more
09:59.56Corsacok
10:00.03Corsac(what's pixelpipe?)
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10:00.22kirmajaffa: hmm. simple to implement own (for like own web site), simple to integrate to python app? ;)
10:01.08kirmamaybe even "implement the stuff in Python" I mean
10:01.30ShadowJKnice butterfly
10:02.22Jaffakirma: Dunno - APi will be published in final SDK, I guess
10:02.31kirmaoh, not published yet? hrm.
10:02.34JaffaCorsac: http://maemotalk.com/2009/09/03/pixelpipe-coming-to-the-nokia-n900/
10:02.37Jaffakirma: NAFAICT
10:03.27timeless_mbpyeah, the sharing api is designed to be very plugable
10:03.30RST38hGentlemen, enlighten the idiot, what *is* PixelPipe?
10:03.33ShadowJKis higher res pic available from flickr?
10:03.34timeless_mbpso plugable that HAM has a special bucket for it
10:04.24JaffaRST38h: See the above URL. It's a sharing redirect, I think. You upload to Pixelpipe and it goes out onto various other services in one go.
10:04.24X-Fadetimeless_mbp: user/sharing plugins ;)
10:04.31Jaffatimeless_mbp: Not anymore.
10:04.33lcukso i gather other sharing source can be added dynamically
10:04.35JaffaWe killed that, didn't we?
10:04.41X-FadeJaffa: Yes.
10:04.50timeless_mbpJaffa: dunno, it was in the ham stuff i was translating w/in the past two weeks
10:05.09*** join/#maemo felipec (n=felipec@esprx01x.nokia.com)
10:05.54RST38hJaffa: Oh ok
10:06.11RST38hJaffa: because I already looked at that link but could not understand what it was for
10:06.28kirmajaffa: I seriously want to have own plugin that communicates only with my own server :I
10:07.10ShadowJKkirma, I call that "scp"
10:07.12ShadowJK;)
10:07.27timeless_mbpkirma: definitely doable
10:07.34timeless_mbpShadowJK: terribly inconvenient
10:07.43Jaffatimeless_mbp: Hmm. It shouldn't be; cos if HAM gets a translated section it shows it. See https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3844
10:07.43timeless_mbpsadly sharing isn't available from file manager :(
10:08.01kirmatake photo -> select send to default -> get URL copied automatically -> be able to paste it on terminal/IM window if I want
10:08.23lcukkirma, thats a perfectly valid thing
10:08.54ShadowJKtimeless, Yeah. I just need a way to teach GUI to execute "scp "$file" jk@server:www/pics/" ;D
10:08.58kirmaand able to pop up a service-specific dialog to fill in on that sending phase
10:09.02lcuksmiles
10:09.05ShadowJKbut i'm too lazy so I just have an alias in shell instead :/
10:10.02kirmaehm, scp might be a bit too hardcore for this :)
10:10.11kirma*could* implement it with https :)
10:10.34lcukwhy not old fashioned email
10:10.40kirmawould be more portable hack than these
10:10.44lcukor do you have gateway problems
10:10.55ShadowJKkirma, then I'd need something on the server to run https and then I'd need cgi on it too or something :)
10:11.00kirmayes, mail works already. and sure, people just love tinkering with procmail filters...
10:11.41ShadowJK:D
10:12.43lardman|homeall these people with N900s, any dmesg output yet?
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10:13.13kirmawonders if there's also a metadata manipulation interface for photos/videos/etc on the N900
10:13.18kirmaI mean, free-form metadata
10:13.35kirmawhich wouldn't be visible on tag cloud...
10:14.00lcukyou hope
10:14.06lcuki think its probably got an xxx filter lol
10:14.06kirmacould mark after successful upload that photo has been backed up to service X, and application could later clean it away for instance
10:14.15kirmaand that would work after photo renames and such
10:14.26lcukthat is best done as part of the sync service database itself
10:14.42lcukthink: git for media
10:15.33*** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=valerio@82.154.192.245)
10:16.27lcukgoes and prepares his cv
10:17.53ShadowJKlardman|home, yeah.. maybe they're all lying
10:18.16SpeedEvilwrjpgcom?
10:20.37lcuklardman|home, ask on the mailing list.  i'd like to get you the log but my hands are tied.
10:20.55*** join/#maemo stemosco (n=stemosco@esprx02x.nokia.com)
10:22.35lardman|homelcuk: ok np
10:25.01*** join/#maemo julianoliver (n=julian@33.Red-81-35-27.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
10:35.04lardman|homelcuk: you didn't go for audio/video control then?
10:35.14lardman|homeor is the video only a teaser?
10:35.38lardman|homesearches for a QR code
10:35.48lcukwell
10:36.00lcukif some audio code can be dug up before 13th it could be done
10:36.03lcukbut ive just lost my job
10:36.27X-Fadelardman|home: http://mobilecodes.nokia.com/
10:36.27lardman|homeoh really, sorry to hear that
10:36.54lcukmmnm so ive gotta sort lots out
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10:36.57lardman|homeX-Fade: thanks, just found one on the back of my (Nokia) GPS mount too :)
10:36.58lcukand get my cv together
10:37.08wazdhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7O2vAGs4XM <- row they did that rotating effect? I want it too :)
10:37.14wazdhow*
10:37.20lardman|homelcuk: well I can send you code to read from the microphone, I've not finished the FFT stuff yet though
10:37.39lcukgo for it!
10:37.58lardman|homeX-Fade: my bad, that's a dmtx
10:38.57lcuki cannot show a video this weekend either
10:38.58lardman|homederf: nice, it works
10:39.04BleadofIs there a way on Fremantle to install a single debian package from a file using the application manager?
10:39.07lcuktracy has taken the camera on hol
10:39.13*** join/#maemo jkyro (i=jasu@cs181095056.pp.htv.fi)
10:39.14lardman|home~lart camera facing the wrong bloody way
10:39.14infobotforces camera facing the wrong bloody way to use Outlook Express
10:39.17X-FadeBleadof: dpkg ?
10:39.24lardman|homedigs out N800
10:39.36BleadofApplication manager?-)
10:39.36X-FadeBleadof: ehm or red pill mode.
10:40.11BleadofI can use dpkg but the client doesn't want to :)
10:40.24lcukput it on maemo.org
10:40.37BleadofHardly an option :)
10:40.38lcukor if your client does not want that
10:40.44lcuksetup a repo for them specifically
10:40.44X-FadeBleadof: Put it in a proper repository?
10:40.59X-FadeX-Fade: And use a .install file for installation?
10:41.27BleadofOk, so I suppose that's a no to installing a debian package just from a file.
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10:42.34_berto_what if you open it from the file manager?
10:43.05kirmaif I want a hardware development board reasonably close to Maemo 5(/6) specs, what would be affordable?
10:43.11Jaffa_berto_: AFAIK, nothing's registered for them
10:43.14Jaffakirma: Beagle board.
10:43.31JaffaBleadof: There's a way if there's an app registered to handle them. There isn't OOTB
10:44.16kirmagood place to order it to .fi/eu?
10:44.17X-FadeBleadof: But installing from file is disabled by default.
10:44.23_berto_Jaffa: yeah, it doesn't seem to work
10:45.49derflardman|home: Sweet.
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10:47.35Jaffa_berto_: Bleadof: http://maemo.org/packages/view/appinstaller/
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10:50.17X-FadeJaffa: I'm somehow a bit scared of that app actually.
10:50.42JaffaX-Fade: I've not looked at it; but konttori_ could do with putting a human-readable title, description, icon etc.
10:51.17X-FadeJaffa: Anything that undermines AM can cause serious problems along the line..
10:51.40JaffaX-Fade: If it's limiting to installing from files, I'm not sure it's too much of an issue.
10:51.57X-FadeJaffa: What if it installs a system lib?
10:51.58JaffaIt's the use cases where people *do* end up installing from files that'll be the problem.
10:52.17JaffaX-Fade: Perhaps it should just allow install, not upgrade?
10:52.27JaffaUpgrading a package reverts to having to use dpkg as root.
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10:54.15X-FadeJaffa: Uses dpkg at least.
10:54.46X-FadeJaffa: So runs as root.
10:55.25JaffaX-Fade: Yeah, but it could be made so that it would refuse to call dpkg if the package was already installed.
10:55.49JaffaOr it did it as a two-stage operation: uninstall then install. System library not really uninstallable so problem solved ;-)
10:55.56X-FadeJaffa: Lookin at the code, this thing is scary.
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10:56.19X-FadeJaffa: Will install with missing depends also.
10:56.56X-FadeWell, will try. dpkg would let you probably.
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10:57.35X-FadeBut anyway, there is a reason why file installs are removed from AM ;)
10:57.43JaffaX-Fade: Indeed.
10:58.01JaffaBut it keeps getting asked, so *someone* is going to write an app
10:58.38fureddoI wish I had arrived a few minutes earlier...  The current conversation looks interesting...
10:58.41X-FadeYes, but it should not be offered to end-users as such.
10:58.59JaffaX-Fade: Indeed, but the semi-technical user may want it
10:59.02Jaffa(for good or bad)
10:59.08Jaffafureddo: Check the logs
10:59.15X-FadeJaffa: That is what dpkg is for anyway ;)
10:59.17Jaffa~logs
10:59.18infobotAll conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged.
10:59.30JaffaX-Fade: Indeed :)
10:59.34fureddoJaffa, Thanks
10:59.56lardman|homelcuk: here's the sound test code, it draws pretty waveforms. Probably wouldn't be much effort to plug in an ARM-side FFT routine to produce better metrics from which to produce pretty pictures. I'm afraid I got lost trying to do that on the DSP, but that's not much use for the N900 anyway: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/nokia-event/
11:00.00X-FadeJaffa: So having a nice icon and description will only make it more appealing for end users.
11:00.02Jaffafureddo: Also http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/index.html
11:00.05JaffaX-Fade: True
11:00.51lardman|homelcuk: let me know if that doesn't work, I've got a few revisions of the code
11:01.01fureddoAnyway, I was going to ask if someone could try my install file.
11:01.11lcuklardman|home, :) you dont know how much that makes me happy.   i will play in lardaudio as time allows :)
11:01.16lardman|homesits and waits for his N800 to charge so he can have a camera facing the right direction
11:01.20lcukand of course you are welcome to hack too
11:01.23lcukill start it off tho
11:01.41fureddoHere it is: http://www.fbergeron.com/tmp/tomotko.install
11:01.47X-Fadelardman|home: Yeah, hard to aim with the n810 huh? :)
11:01.59lardman|homesure is :)
11:02.04fureddoI have no Maemo device so I cannot test it myself.
11:02.27lardman|homelcuk: I've got a conference week after next so also pretty busy, would love to help otherwise
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11:02.37Jaffafureddo: Why, OOI, are you trying to build your own .install & repo?
11:02.39X-Fadefureddo: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/install/
11:02.42lcuk:) it will be sat here waiting
11:02.46lcuktheres no rush
11:02.47lardman|homethou I am in London on Thursday, so might try to pop in and see an n900 in the flesh :)
11:02.55lcukyeah
11:02.57lcukwe can have beers
11:02.58X-Fadefureddo: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/install/tomotko.install even
11:03.04lcukim there from tue night to sat night
11:03.04lardman|homecool :)
11:03.12lcuksaturday is a bit of a nokia day
11:03.22lcukkonttori and jussi are coming over
11:03.26lardman|homeok, I have to see whether I have the time to hang around, lots to do, but should know after the weekend
11:03.29fureddoX-Fade, Wow, it was already generated.
11:03.30lcukand im givin a presentation
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11:03.36fureddoI didn't know that
11:03.51lcuklardman|home, would be good to drink (anyone else too)
11:03.58lcuki think ive got qwerty12_N810 coming over on sat too
11:04.04JaffaX-Fade: will packages show the install icon for things in extras-testing and extras? Finding the auto-generated one for diablo is always a pain
11:04.05lardman|homeif my n800 is really flat, will it not display the charging symbol? It shows the boot screen when I plug it in, but then goes to a black screen
11:04.07lcukhe needs a big hand shake :)
11:04.21lcukmine does that
11:04.26X-FadeJaffa: Yeah, that is on my todo.
11:04.28lcukit wont switch on till it does show charge
11:04.42lardman|homeI don't even have the charging animation
11:04.42JaffaX-Fade: cool. Probably don't want to for extras-devel ;-)
11:05.15X-FadeJaffa: No, even for testing is a bit ... well..
11:05.18Jaffalardman|home: If the battery gets really flat, AIUI, it goes into very-low level charging
11:05.28JaffaX-Fade: Testing only for logged in users, perhaps?
11:05.31lardman|homedamn
11:05.39X-FadeJaffa: yeah..
11:05.40lcukJaffa, are you around london next week?
11:05.46Jaffalardman|home: Once it gets to a certain level, it can then do the normal booted charging
11:05.58lardman|homeok, well that's good, will stop me hacking on mbarcode
11:06.08Jaffalcuk: In office Monday & Tuesday. Weds/Thurs in Stockholm. *May* be in on Friday too since it's a deadline day
11:07.06lcukif you are around give me a holler :)
11:07.06JaffaWill do :)
11:07.38lardman|homederf: have you got any i-mode decoder stuff written?
11:08.11lcukhey simon, javispedro is playing with powervr :)
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11:08.26lcuktrying to get a single, simple program rendering 1 triangle
11:08.32javispedro(n900)
11:08.43lcukoh hi mornin!
11:08.43javispedroI could get it to work in fremantle x86 sdk
11:08.46javispedrobut not armel :)
11:08.51javispedromorning.
11:08.53BleadofJaffa, Cheers!
11:08.56lcukjavispedro, simon just shared the code for grabbing audio
11:09.02lcukfrom mic
11:09.14javispedrogood :)
11:09.58derflardman|home: No.
11:10.00lcukyeah tis, give it some audio out and people could start making even better liq* interactions :)
11:10.29javispedrois trying to reupload openttd, now the proper way (since yesterday I was asleep :P )
11:10.55javispedroI may have to even ask xfade to delete a package :D
11:11.25lcuklol
11:11.34lardman|homederf: np, not difficult, just wanted to save some time
11:11.40lcukheh - i just found the early test vid for liqflow http://liqbase.net/liqflow_test.AVI
11:11.40lardman|homederf: your code works :)
11:12.33derfIf only I could say that about this other code I'm writing.
11:12.39mausois there a faq or sthing for common problems when installing sbox + maemo 5 sdk beta?
11:12.45lardman|homederf: lol
11:13.45javispedromauso: yes, but everybody asks here either way :P
11:13.53mausogood, so i will too :)
11:14.20mausoi think everything during installation went well with the provided scripts
11:14.31mausoand i can login to sb and so on
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11:16.22mausoproblems arise when following these instructions http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_SDK#Testing_SDK_Installation
11:16.47mausofor some reason the x86-devkit is not able to compile & run the program
11:17.04zerojayPCAnd what reason would that be?
11:17.17mausomaybe i get the output to pastebin
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11:18.53javispedroyes.
11:19.03mausohttp://pastebin.com/m1dfc6c23
11:19.28javispedromauso: I think you selected the armel compiler in the x86 target
11:19.29mausohelloworld.c copypasted from devguide
11:20.06mausohow did i select that? :) at least i did not execute any such command before trying this example, right after sdk installation
11:20.22javispedrosb-menu, go to setup, FREMANTLE;X86
11:20.27javispedrosb-menu, go to setup, FREMANTLE_X86
11:20.46javispedroit'll ask a lot of questions
11:20.48javispedroCompiler: cs2007q3-glibc2.5-i486
11:20.49javispedroDevkits: perl debian-etch doctools svn git
11:20.49javispedroCPU-transparency: none
11:20.54javispedro(these are the answers)
11:21.04mausothanks, gotta give a try
11:22.00mausois it ok to have other devkits selected too? (apt-https, qemu, ...)
11:22.16javispedrowhat you need qemu to? :D
11:22.21mausodunno :)
11:22.27mausothose were selected by default
11:22.28javispedrofor a start, don't
11:23.04_berto_is there any plan to create a QEMU/VirtualBox/VmWare image with the complete fremantle SDK ?
11:23.33javispedrohttp://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/
11:23.52mauso"Do you wish to extract a rootstrap on the target?" --> Yes?
11:23.58javispedrono, since you already did
11:24.13javispedrodon't install files for now either
11:24.15mausothat's what i thought, just asked for curiosity ;)
11:24.32mausogee, it compiles!
11:24.34mausothanks
11:24.48javispedroin case the armel target got wrong too,
11:24.49javispedroCompiler: cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7
11:24.49javispedroDevkits: perl debian-etch qemu doctools svn git
11:24.49javispedroCPU-transparency: /scratchbox/devkits/qemu/bin/qemu-arm-sb
11:24.57javispedro(this is for FREMANTLE_ARMEL)
11:24.58_berto_javispedro: http://tinyurl.com/youaregood
11:25.14javispedrohehe
11:25.28mausowas just going to check that next
11:25.59mausothen a more theoretical question: should those values be setup by default by the sdk-installer script?
11:26.07javispedroyes...
11:26.19javispedroso it would be interesting if you can guess why it failed.
11:26.20mausook, then it just didnt work for me
11:26.25mausono glue
11:26.28mausoor clue
11:26.34javispedro:)
11:27.36mausothe script was such a verbose thing that no-one wants to know what it tries to say... not even to mention to scrawl through the output afterwards (especially as it happened few sessions earlier)
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11:40.50SpeedEvillardman: why would the DSP not be useful for FFT?
11:41.16AStormsure it is, but you need integer FFT then
11:41.22AStormquite a trick
11:41.42SpeedEvilah
11:41.56lcukmmm
11:42.06SpeedEvilis at the moment coding DFT in asm.
11:42.08SpeedEvilMuch fun.
11:42.19lcukheh
11:42.34lardman|home!much fun
11:42.44lcukSpeedEvil,
11:42.48derfTI ships asm FFT code for C64x.
11:42.56lcukdid you see the peek video i showed up there
11:42.57lardman|homeSpeedEvil: it is, why do you ask?
11:43.01AStormderf: with vfp or not?
11:43.06lardman|homeand for c55
11:43.11derfAStorm: C64x.
11:43.16AStormah right
11:43.35AStormthough it'd have to be rewritten for those SIMD insns to be really fast on DSP
11:43.41RST38hmoos
11:43.46lardman|homeDSP has asm FFT for the C55, so no problem there, I just didn't get round to finishing debugging the code
11:43.49SpeedEvillardman: you implied not - ' I'm afraid I got lost trying to do that on the DSP, but that's not much use for the N900 anyway:'
11:43.59lardman|homewell the bridge is different
11:43.59SpeedEvillardman: or at least I may have misread
11:44.09lardman|homeso the code will need to be rewritten anyway
11:44.15AStormor rather, ported
11:44.15SpeedEvilah
11:44.23AStormthe assembly might be very similar
11:44.24lardman|homeI was coding for my N810, lcuk needs code for an N900, etc
11:44.35lcukfor 810
11:44.40lcukliqbase runs there primarily
11:44.51lardman|homeAStorm: the asm is provided anyway in the DSPLIB, it's just the C glue and bridge stuff that needs to be rewritten
11:45.07lcukthe extra bits n900 has are just ways to spread wings of codign a bit and do more stuff
11:45.09lardman|homelcuk: I thought the demo was going to be run from an N900?
11:45.11AStormasdf
11:45.35lcuklardman, liqbase runs on n810, onedotzero specific app requires accelerometers
11:45.45lcukbut that could be obtained from wiimote etc
11:45.57lcuksame issue as attitude
11:46.02lcukits not a problem running liq* apps on n810
11:46.09lcukbut we dont have all the plugins is all :)
11:46.33lardman|homewell I'll finish the code, but am a bit busy atm
11:46.44lardman|homeI thought you wanted some code for the demo though, that's why I mentioned it
11:47.11lcukoh yeah
11:47.19lcukthis will help immensely :)
11:47.36lcuki dont know what it would look like tho
11:47.55lcukwe could get a really nice quickly responding fft quite easily
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11:48.41lardman|homethere are plenty of FFT codes around, running it on the DSP was for interest's sake, not expediancy's
11:48.55lcukyeah
11:49.04lcuki had one on amiga :)
11:49.36Stskeepsmunicipality office = place where souls die
11:49.39lardman|homefftw for example
11:49.49lcukfftw ftw
11:50.11AStormlardman|home: it might help performance anyway
11:50.23lardman|homeyou'll need to do a quick run and see what freqs are useful to pick up voices rather than a baying crowd, and then pull the mag of those out and use them for display, that was my thought anyway
11:50.48lardman|homeAStorm: yep
11:51.14AStormlardman|home: you'll have hell of a job, try lower mid frequencies
11:51.17AStorm250-2k
11:51.27lardman|homethe other option is cadance
11:51.40lardman|homebut again, not something that's going to happen in the next few days to be ready :)
11:51.57lardman|homeAStorm: only need to find a band
11:52.06mausodoes anyone know why "import hildon" gives some dbus-errors with pymaemo on fremantle?
11:52.15lardman|homenarrow band that is, but that would probably need a tuning test on the day too
11:52.36derfPitch fundamental is 50-160 Hz for males and 100-500 Hz for females/children.
11:52.57lardman|homewhat about crowd noise? :)
11:52.58derfWith usually 2 or 3 good harmonics above that.
11:53.16derfNoise is not tonal.
11:53.16mausohttp://maemo.pastebin.com/md1f9263
11:53.43lardman|homederf: pick out the main and fundamentals and use that for recog?
11:53.43thpmauso: use run-standalone.sh before starting python
11:54.04derfWhat are you actually trying to do with this?
11:54.11lcuk:) lardman, the sorts of questions i would ask
11:54.18thpi.e. run-standalone.sh python2.5
11:54.19lardman|homethis Nokia expo thing in london
11:54.28mausook
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11:54.44derfThat didn't tell me anything.
11:55.17mausonot much better now
11:55.49lardman|homederf: http://blogs.nokia.com/nseries/index.php/2009/09/03/first-creative-application-of-n900/
11:55.59thpmauso: you have run af-sb-init.sh start first?
11:56.08lcukhttp://blogs.nokia.com/nseries/index.php/2009/09/03/first-creative-application-of-n900/
11:56.10lcuklol
11:56.14lcukderf
11:56.26thp(and started xephyr before that, exported DISPLAY, etc...)
11:56.31lcukwe are using n900+liqbase to control a MASSIVE exhibit in london
11:56.47lcuklardman|home, its really responsive
11:56.59lcukthe accelerometer on device is second to none
11:57.06lardman|homederf: we doesn't include me, I just had some code on the side
11:57.09mausothp: thanks, now i see :)
11:57.50lcuklardman|home, it will include you :)
11:58.00derfI meant, what _technical_ problem are you trying to solve?
11:58.36lardman|homeit's to produce pretty patterns that respond to voice
11:58.43lardman|homeso nothing particularly objective
11:59.13lardman|homee.g. produce some metric stream that is proportional, in some way, to what someone says to the device
11:59.34lardman|homeso simple case would be voice amplitude
11:59.40SpeedEvilOr a scope
11:59.43lardman|homebut it may be noisy, so that isn't so great
11:59.58lardman|homeSpeedEvil: question is what you do with all the data from the scope?
12:00.13derfIt's not hard to just estimate a noise floor.
12:00.17lardman|homebut yeah, that would be very easy, just plug into FFTW and see if anything useful comes out
12:00.35lardman|homederf: yep
12:01.03lardman|homehmm, someone just phoned me and asked for Donna, very strange
12:01.20lcukahh you finally accepted you are now a man
12:02.00lardman|homeyep, even got the 50-160Hz range to prove it
12:02.28lcuklol
12:02.30SpeedEvillardman: nothing - you just show it on screen
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12:03.00lardman|homeSpeedEvil: I think the thought was to control something about the text on screen with it, but who knows :)
12:03.53SpeedEvilah
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12:04.17SpeedEvilI thought it was only for prettyness - which lcuk seems to value over everything.
12:04.22mausothp: do you know if the pymaemo tutorial is valid for fremantle too?
12:04.29SpeedEvilA sensible lynx-based interface is clearly superior.
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12:05.14lardman|homelol
12:05.21lardman|homedid you watch the video at the url above
12:05.33thpmauso: on the pymaemo documentation start page there is a link to specific fremantle docs
12:05.39lardman|homeI guess you could do something like pulse the text size with voice amplitude, that would be reasonably simple
12:06.04lardman|homesimple in that the display sw is already present from the looks of it, and just requires some arbitrary inputs
12:06.13thppymaemo.garage.maemo.org, then docs and then there is a link at the beginning of the page
12:06.24mausothp: yes, i followed them and ended up in this tutorial: http://dy.fi/ejj
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12:06.45lcukSpeedEvil, prettyness and control interaction go hand in hand
12:07.02lcukwith smooth clear data it can be used for visual stimulus and for mucking about
12:07.50thpmauso: yep, looks like fremantle code to me :)
12:07.51mausothp: the example opened by that link states "hildon.hildon_program_get_instance()" but such method is not available
12:08.16mausomaybe something went wrong when i installed pymaemo to fremantle..?
12:08.51thpthe api seems to still be unstable
12:08.57SpeedEvillcuk: yeah - I don't disagree :)
12:09.01SpeedEvillcuk: done right
12:09.05thphave you got beta2 installed?
12:09.15SpeedEvillcuk: done wrong - 'How do I get this damn GUI out of my way'.
12:09.28mausoyes
12:10.11thpyou might want to file a bug against pymaemo on bugs.maemo.org if the tutorial does not work with the current version in beta2
12:10.15lcukSpeedEvil, care to have a go yourself?
12:10.19mausook
12:10.39lcukshow us how to do it "right" :) liqbase is creative enough to do this kind of fancy pants stuff
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12:11.48lcukliqbase-playground is in extras devel and includes a few different standalone simple apps to make a start
12:11.59lcuklardman just before posted some gst code to grab audio
12:12.26thpmauso: there are also some pymaemo apps in fremantle extras-devel already. you can apt-get source them and look at the code for an example
12:12.27lcukshout if you need help with the liq* stuff, tho people seem to just be making a start quite well now
12:12.56SpeedEvillcuk: your approach seems sane.
12:13.17SpeedEvillcuk: Unfortunately at the moment all my hacking time is taken up with moving gravel and stuff.
12:13.18SpeedEvil:/
12:13.51lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liqflow_test.AVI
12:13.55lcuktake a look at that
12:13.59lcuk:) tis quite cool
12:14.04lcukruns on n8x0 too :)
12:14.26lcukapart from the accelerometer bit
12:15.56SpeedEvilstabs his network connection.
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12:31.49X-Fadelcuk: Nice!
12:32.07lcukX-Fade, its even nicer on n900
12:32.14lcukit interacts with the accelerometer
12:32.16lcukand falls like rain
12:32.23lcukwhichever way you hold the device
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12:33.56X-Fadelcuk: And sloshing water?
12:34.12lcuknot yet
12:34.21lcukill let someone else make a variation :)
12:34.29lcukis pretty dog tired
12:34.36X-Fadeheh
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12:34.46X-FadePretty calculation heavy, I imagine.
12:34.53lcuknot really
12:34.59lcukthe n900 is fucking impressive
12:35.24lcukmind you, liqbase is impressive on n8x0
12:35.34lcukall the hard work i put in optimizing it seems to have worked tho
12:35.52lcuki asked nokia engineers it went too fast and it needed slowing down ;)
12:36.07javispedroeasy
12:36.13javispedroI can slow it down, I just need an axe
12:36.17javispedroand a N900.
12:36.28fiferboylcuk: I can put in a HUGE memroy leak for you...
12:36.50fiferboys/memroy/memory/
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12:38.40lcuklol fiferboy
12:38.44lcukim sure theres already some
12:38.52lcukbet you can't find em tho
12:39.02lcukbtw, would you want the database stuff i was looking at recently
12:39.11fiferboyHell, I can't even find the memory leaks in my own programs!
12:39.21lcuklol yeah i know :P
12:39.40fiferboylcuk: sure
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12:46.10pupnik14:41 <+bonsaikitten> do not ever disturb a programmer when he doesn't respond directly
12:48.45aquatixhm, can I let the maemo (OS2008) IM client ignore tls stuff for xmpp? i have an account on a server that requires that disabled
12:48.56aquatixand now it won't connect
12:49.44RST38hheya pupnik
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13:17.22timeless_mbpandre__: why isn't bug 4040 imported?
13:18.43andre__timeless_mbp, see severity?
13:18.54timeless_mbpno. i intentionally ignore that
13:19.00timeless_mbpimport a bug against the spec
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13:32.44royerfaHi, when I boot my Maemo Fs I got the error libblkid.so.1 not found and syslogd: /dev/xconsole: No such file or directory
13:33.08royerfahas by chance anyone been confrontated to the same errors ?
13:37.12lardman|homecome on N800, any sign of life
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13:38.12lardman|homepretty please!
13:38.44X-Fadelardman|home: That race condition?
13:38.47AStormroyerfa: your filesystem is broken I guess
13:38.59lardman|homedunno, just no signs of life yet, still charging
13:39.17X-Fadelardman|home: How can you charge without sign of life?
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13:39.28X-Fadelardman|home: It needs to boot to charge?
13:39.43lardman|homeit must trickle though even if it doesn't boot?
13:40.02X-Fadelardman|home: I somehow doubt that.
13:40.10AStormlardman|home: it does not
13:40.13lardman|homewell it just tried to boot 3 times, so looks like some power got in somehow
13:40.30AStormyeah, like temperature dropping
13:40.35lardman|homewhat happens if the battery is completely flat then?
13:40.46lardman|hometoo flat to boot
13:40.49AStormit's dead
13:40.55AStormyou get a blink, then nothing at all
13:41.00lardman|homeyeah
13:41.00X-Fadelardman|home: First you will see display on, off.
13:41.13X-Fadelardman|home: It more empty, then nothing at all.
13:41.19lardman|homeyep, sounds about right
13:41.37X-Fadelardman|home: Put it in your pocket.
13:41.43lardman|homewarm it up?
13:41.45X-Fadelardman|home: Or somehow make it a bit warmer.
13:41.51X-FadeYeah batter.
13:41.52X-Fadey
13:42.01lardman|homelooks at the microwave :)
13:42.14X-FadeBad idea, although.. could be fun ;)
13:42.18lardman|home:)
13:42.28lardman|homewell if it won't boot....
13:42.34lardman|homemight want to use the microwave again mind you
13:42.50AStormI'd rather use an external charger
13:42.51X-Fadewarming it up might raise the voltage just about the software cutoff point.
13:42.53AStormlike N96
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13:43.03SpeedEvilI assume you don't own a laboratory power supply?
13:43.07SpeedEviland a DMM?
13:43.13lardman|homeI can find one if the worst comes to the worst
13:43.14X-FadeOr lipo charger, or current limited power supply.
13:43.21lardman|homewhat's a DMM?
13:43.26AStormmultimeter
13:43.40lardman|homeoh yeah, I'm sure I could find all that
13:44.01X-FadeSupplying 4volts and 0.5A should bring it to life pretty fast.
13:44.28AStormyeah, even only a minute on this should be enough to bring it to charging
13:44.41AStorm1C, right?
13:45.01X-FadeAStorm: I was being cautious so even lower than 1C ;)
13:45.19X-FadeAnd lower than 4.2V too.
13:45.25lardman|homecrap, warm battery didn't do anything
13:45.46AStormso charge it next
13:45.54AStorm;>
13:46.15lardman|homeyeah, not going into work today, so will have to wait till next week
13:46.19lardman|homeah well
13:46.36X-Fadelardman|home: You could piggyback another lipo.
13:46.44AStormbad bad *bad* idea
13:46.55X-Fadelardman|home: Assuming you know what you are doing ;)
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13:47.28X-FadeAStorm: Nah, I do it all the time. But you need to know what you are doing.
13:47.43lardman|homeI don't :)
13:47.47X-FadeAStorm: And cell voltage should not differ too much.
13:47.54AStormit will
13:48.01AStormsince this one is discharged
13:48.21X-FadeAStorm: Yeah, but is probably around 3.6, 3.7 volts.
13:48.40*** part/#maemo spadix (n=spadix@pdpc/supporter/professional/spadix)
13:49.26lardman|homehmm, battery from my 770 has enough juice to charge, and that's not been turned on since last year
13:49.42X-Fadelardman|home: Same battery.
13:49.47X-Fadelardman|home: Just exchange..
13:49.54AStormyeah
13:49.59AStormbut that won't charge the other
13:50.02AStorm;>
13:50.08X-Fadelardman|home: And try to charge the other with 770.
13:50.13lardman|homealready exchanged, was just thinking of power drain while powered off
13:50.23lardman|homeX-Fade: yeah will try that
13:50.34X-Fadelardman|home: Maybe that has a bit of difference in charging limits.
13:50.43lardman|homeprobably doesn't help that I'm using crappy low amperage phone chargers rather than NIT chargeras
13:50.57AStormnah
13:51.06lardman|homeX-Fade: I put the 770 battery in the N800 and it's charging there
13:51.09AStormthey'll just charge a bit less and slower
13:51.11X-Fadelardman|home: It needs to accept the current first.
13:51.27X-Fadelardman|home: And for that the bme needs to be set into a certain state.
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13:52.02lardman|homeok, I knew the kernel was required to charge, but always thought that a backup hw charging route would be available too
13:52.44X-Fadelardman|home: No, that is why Mer couldn't charge at first.
13:52.56lardman|homeah, fair enough
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13:53.10lardman|homelearn something new every day :)
13:54.10X-Fadeso it needs just enough power to boot and setup bme.
13:55.02Corsacmpf
13:55.22manikHi, I'm trying to activate my Qt application through DBus mime_open method. But i do not see the dbus message when i click a text file in file browser
13:55.52wazdwee, I'm going to the Nightwish tomorrow :)
13:56.21manikI have registered my application for coresponding mime type, It opens the application not the file :(
13:56.37manikany help or pointers ?
13:56.42qwerty12_N810manik: The file manager messes up the file name sent to the app
13:57.11X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: ping again ;)
13:57.25qwerty12_N810manik: When opening from the File Manager, spaces will be made into %20s and file:// is added to the front
13:57.31qwerty12_N810X-Fade: yessir? :)
13:57.43qwerty12_N810(Sorry; I was out)
13:58.00X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Can you upload a new version of rootsh with a complaint section?
13:58.04manikqwerty12_N810: But i do not see any dbus message in dbus-monitor
13:58.10X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: for fremantle?
13:58.32qwerty12_N810X-Fade: You mean the XSBC bug tracker thing?
13:58.45qwerty12_N810Oh, shit
13:58.45X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: No, is is now in user/tools
13:58.52X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Which is not ok.
13:58.53qwerty12_N810*facepalm*
13:59.03qwerty12_N810I read compliant as "complaint"
13:59.10X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: And I want to promote it to testing.
13:59.26X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: You did correctly. I was doing it wrong ;)
14:00.27qwerty12_N810I'd rather not see it in testing yet as it's using the gainroot script from Diablo and I'd like to get a real device in my hands (I'm thinking theft ;)) to see what changed in the gainroot script
14:00.43X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: I can confirm that it works fine.
14:00.59qwerty12_N810OK, that worksforme then. :)
14:01.10lardman|homeany easy ways to create icons?
14:01.11qwerty12_N810manik: Sorry, not sure then
14:01.17Jaffaqwerty12_N810: Also, Quim's been pushing and touting it.
14:01.17X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Or rather tekojo did ;)
14:01.21Jaffalardman|home: What kind of icon?
14:01.29lardman|homeones for a Python app
14:01.40lardman|homewas just copying your setup from Horizon :)
14:01.47JaffaDraw them in GIMP, save as PNG?
14:01.55X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: And everytime I ask them to see what apt-get says, they need to enable -devel again to install it ;)
14:02.01lardman|homeurgh, was hoping for a scrip to size them for me
14:02.03lardman|homeoh well
14:02.03Jaffalardman|home: For XB-Maemo-Icon-26, I let mud handle it for me.
14:02.06X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: So I want to put it in testing too ;)
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14:02.11Jaffalardman|home: imagemagick
14:02.15lardman|homeMATLAB
14:02.17lardman|homeanyway
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14:02.19qwerty12_N810X-Fade: lol, fair enough ;)
14:02.44lardman|homein your exec lines you have /usr/bin/horizon (no .py) did you create a script to call your python file, or just rename it?
14:03.04Jaffalardman|home: I've got a little script in attitude.pkg/extras which goes in /usr/bin
14:03.34lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liqbase_river.php?username=lcuk :)
14:03.46lardman|homeok cool, thanks
14:04.04lardman|homeback to virtual volumes to find that one :)
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14:13.00qwerty12_N810X-Fade: Will using user/system for the category be acceptable?
14:15.00X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Yeah, sounds fine.
14:15.13qwerty12_N810Cool, thanks
14:17.50X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: No, thank you ;)
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14:23.08lcukX-Fade,
14:23.21lcukjavispedro was just looking at packaging liqbase again
14:23.31lcukand he asked about the delay between sending lib and sending apps
14:23.42lcuk^ openttd rather
14:23.43lcuklol
14:24.00X-FadeHeh, your mind is full of that project ;)
14:24.13lcukoverflowing :)
14:24.43javispedroyeah, I sent a new build-depend and still waiting for it.
14:24.48javispedrolcuk said its usually 2 hours?
14:24.56X-Fadelcuk: incoming queue (so after build) is processed every 10 minutes.
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14:25.23lcukits that quick then? :D cool
14:25.43X-FadeSo after you get the mail that the build was ok, it should be there within 10 minutes.
14:25.50javispedroX-Fade, thanks :)
14:25.52lcukyeah but that still means
14:25.59lcukyou cannot push all projects at once
14:26.06X-FadeNo.
14:26.10lcukie lib first, then apps
14:26.17javispedrodeletes his first FAILED autobuilder build from gmail, never to see it again
14:26.20X-FadeThat is what the whole discussion with Ed was about.
14:26.49X-FadeHe's going to implement a solution for that, but you have to know that even Debian doesn't support that.
14:27.02lcuk:D a maemo hack
14:27.21lcukgood
14:27.21javispedroa hack would be: if failed for missing deps, put at the end of build queue and move on
14:27.39javispedro(or sleep :P )
14:27.43lcukjavispedro, not always wise
14:28.09lcukX-Fade,
14:28.21lcukwhat can be done with : http://liqbase.net/liqbase_river.php?username=lcuk
14:28.40lcukcos im not a web guy
14:29.24lbtyou need django
14:29.48X-Fadelcuk: Ask a designer to design something?
14:29.58lbtlcuk: put this on your reading list : http://www.djangobook.com
14:31.04lcukyeah x i might need to
14:31.39lcuklbt, do njot tempt me with this indented stuff :P
14:31.53lcuki prefer php
14:32.02X-Fadelcuk: I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm not a design guy either ;)
14:32.24lcukhah
14:32.43lcukbut you do manage infrastructure and stability really well
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14:35.53jrochalizardo, hi
14:36.25lizardojrocha: hi
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14:39.36jrochalizardo, I'm continuing witht he OCRFeeder port I think I told you about last week or so
14:39.56lizardojrocha: yes, i remember :)
14:39.59jrochaI need to set up a TouchSelector for text choices
14:40.11SpeedEviljrocha: 2d barcodes too?
14:40.47jrochalizardo, and I was looking for the touch_selector_new_text equivalent
14:41.09jrochalizardo, (I have more experience on C in what comes to Hildon)
14:41.14jrochaSpeedEvil, what?
14:41.46lizardojrocha: which already helps a lot , because the API mostly follows a "pattern" when mapping C -> Python
14:41.46SpeedEviljrocha: as something your ocrthingy will be aimed at
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14:43.04jrochalizardo, sure, and besides, I worked a lot with PyGTK before but the Hildon Python bindings have slight differences here and there, as I already mentioned
14:43.27jrochalizardo, so, is there a quick way to get me a TouchSelector for text usage only?
14:43.45lizardojrocha: in my case, I don't have much experience in Hildon programming , only the internals for creating/maintining the bindings.. most of Hildon I learned from the C examples
14:44.01jrochaSpeedEvil, my OCR app is kind of an Office (no-TM) :) app, it focus on text documents mainly
14:44.10lizardojrocha: can you send me an small example in C?
14:45.00SpeedEviljrocha: Ah - I thought it was a general extract data from camera
14:45.03lizardojrocha: so I can try translating it into python that would make the equivalent (and fix any bugs in the process)
14:45.09jrochalizardo, GtkWidget *selector = hildon_touch_selector_new_text ();
14:45.18jrochalizardo,  that's the example :)
14:46.06jrochaSpeedEvil, I got a screencast on Vimeo if you wanna check
14:46.14jrochalemme find it
14:46.38lizardojrocha: selector = hildon.TouchSelector(text=True)
14:46.51jrochahttp://www.vimeo.com/3760126
14:47.02SpeedEvilroute del default;route add default gw 10.0.0.3
14:47.03SpeedEviloops
14:47.11jrochalizardo, I'll try that now, thank you
14:47.25javispedrobash: route: command not found
14:47.33jrochalizardo, I've tried the docs first but I think it's not mentioning that flag in there
14:47.35lizardojrocha: without the "text" keyword (or with it set to false, you get :  GtkWidget *selector = hildon_touch_selector_new()
14:47.55jrochalizardo, thank you, sounds great
14:48.30lizardojrocha: yes, it is only of those customizations that need to be documented on the docs (that are generated from the C ones) , feel free to open a bug report about any documentation bugs you find ..
14:49.29SpeedEviljrocha: thanks - not working ATM - I need to kick my ISP
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14:58.48JamieBennettdneary I'm around now
14:58.50JaffaX-Fade: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/ should have a link to the QA guidelines doc in an introductory paragraph
15:00.39X-FadeJaffa: yeah, it could use some more wording and explanations at more places.
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15:01.50X-FadeJaffa: Can you create the intro text? :)
15:01.56JaffaX-Fade: Will do
15:02.10JaffaIn fact, falls under my MUST task, I guess
15:04.02X-FadeI'll try to do some work over the weekend.
15:05.09X-FadeWill not always be available next week as we have some heavy construction work done to our house next week.
15:05.38JaffaI might have the patch available for the acception emails ready for you at some point over the weekend
15:05.45JaffaHopefully applying & deploying will be possible.
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15:07.09X-FadeYeah, no problem. It is just that during the day there will be some workmen making a big mess ;)
15:07.09X-FadeBut I'll be working anyway, so..
15:08.30ArSai read it as "some women making a big mess"
15:08.46JamieBennettdneary/VDVsx you guys around?
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15:10.03VDVsxJamieBennett, hello, better now ?
15:10.11JamieBennettrecovering
15:10.16JamieBennettthanks
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15:17.55JamieBennettdneary, dneary, calling dneary ;)
15:18.05dnearyHere
15:18.10JamieBennett:)
15:18.18JamieBennettWe finally all meet again
15:18.58JamieBennettShall we start?
15:19.04lbtwatches
15:19.10JamieBennett(I have dinner in the oven mmmmm)
15:19.21JamieBennett(first bit of food in 3 days)
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15:19.32lbthas ordered coffee from Mrs lbt
15:19.42slonopotamus:D
15:20.17JamieBennettOK, from the top - PySide: Qt4 For Python And Automatic Bindings Generation
15:21.16slonopotamusis pyside needed to anyone but nokia, btw? there's pyqt already
15:21.42JamieBennettslonopotamus "The PySide [2] bindings target not only the desktop but were conceived to provide Qt for Python on the Maemo platform."
15:21.52Stskeepsslonopotamus: license is gpl only afaik
15:22.16slonopotamusJamieBennett, pyqt only targets desktop?
15:22.30JamieBennettno
15:22.41slonopotamusStskeeps, that shouldn't be a problem for community projects
15:22.42wazdyay!)
15:22.53slonopotamusJamieBennett, they why you quoted that?
15:22.59wazdFirst blog entry to get 50 thumb ups!)
15:23.09lbtpyside is the L-GPL replacement for pyqt
15:23.12JamieBennettFrom the description, showing what pyside is targeting
15:23.22VDVsxJamieBennett, dneary , #maemo-meeting ?
15:23.27JamieBennettok
15:24.03slonopotamuslbt, i know. that mostly worries closed-source devs
15:24.18slonopotamusonly
15:24.21Stskeepsslonopotamus: it would be a big problem for people making commercial apps. and i don.t like gpl libraries either. and im a bsd guy.
15:24.24lbtactually I thought the point was to support closed source devs
15:24.47lbtit 'just' upsets the commercial activities of the company that wrote PyQt AFAIUI
15:25.04lbtcf Qt is now 'free' for commercial use
15:25.10slonopotamustries to count thirdparty closed maemo apps
15:25.13lbtwhereas it used to cost Trolltech licenses
15:25.34lbtI guess the summit guys don't want comments then
15:26.05javispedroslonopotamus, http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/diablo/install/
15:26.08Stskeepslbt, i think its just to have peace. a lot of side talk here
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15:27.43Stskeepsthey are chosen to do the difficult job so they deserve that
15:28.49slonopotamusjavispedro, wooow! ~40 apps, 10 of which are canola deps
15:29.15javispedroan the other 20 are oss, only they have complex deps and are not built by the autobuilder :D
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15:31.52slonopotamusprefers 'want to do commercial? pay. noncommercial? take for free' way
15:32.04javispedrolikes that too
15:32.18javispedrobut I guess Nokia did not want to pay
15:32.34javispedroor, more accurately, did not want to make others pay
15:32.43slonopotamusno
15:32.52slonopotamusit didn't want to pay itself
15:33.44kirmadoesn't see what kind of benefit it brings to force someone pay for tools just because he has business incentives, and allow those that don't to go free
15:33.54slonopotamusafter all, fremantle is all gtk, no point to have commercial-friendly qt bindings right now
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15:34.41ali1234so bootmenu...
15:34.53javispedrokirma: it's still deep inside some people's brains that expensive=good, so it's even a good thing.
15:35.01ali1234the usb networking part doesn't seem to work on my n800, any ideas anyone?
15:35.14ali1234it won't enumerate when i plug it in. looks like the module is not loaded
15:36.05kirmawell, paying for support is one thing, but requiring to pay for tools that others use for free just complicates matters for reasons that people can't meaningfully agree on
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15:38.01comhack<PROTECTED>
15:38.38slonopotamuskirma, hmm. what about companies vs. non-profit organizations? they have different laws applied. same thing.
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15:39.36kirmaI've never quite understood what's so great in traditional GPL licensing that binds strong ideological constraints to usage of software components that are ought to be tools, not ideological weapons technology
15:40.51ali1234hmm must be a bad cable
15:40.54slonopotamuskirma, i never understood what's so great in microsoft eula that tries to take freedoms that are given to me by my country's constitution
15:41.16slonopotamusand/or laws
15:41.56kirmawell, my preferred licenses tend to be something like the modern BSD license, or zlib license, or couple others whose name I don't right away remember
15:43.06kirmaEULAs are a bit different beast (and yes, usually long EULAs are a mark of company doing something very suspicious)
15:43.26slonopotamuskirma, you have a right to stick any license you want on your code. either do i.
15:44.44slonopotamuskirma, did you read under what conditions you can use maemo sdk, btw? :)
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15:44.52kirmaso has nokia. if it finds someones' licensing restrictive and impractical, it can reimplement the product as long as there are no intellectual property issues...
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15:45.04kirmaregarding pyside I mean
15:46.13slonopotamuswonders how much nokia offered to _buy_ pyqt without all this trouble of rewriting
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15:48.56wazdForeca widget is pre-installed
15:49.41Stskeepswell.. it is a typical scenario in open source..  someone makes a unreasonable license and someone moves in with a freer alternative
15:49.46Jaffaslonopotamus: Probably quite a lot, given the resources necessary to create & maintain a fork
15:51.05VDVsxwazd, do you have one already o_0?
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15:51.28wazdVDVsx: nope, just saw that in italian demo
15:51.33qwerty12_N810VDVsx: come on, you could've told him that
15:51.54Jaffawazd: You sure it's not just been installed? Is the Italian demo a demo of a clean install?
15:51.55VDVsx:´´) don't have one
15:52.58wazdJaffa: what's the point of installing the widget and not having it on the desktop?)
15:53.27wazdI think Foreca is like AccuWeather for Symbian
15:53.29qwerty12_N810wazd: I sometimes disable OMWeather when I'm low on battery
15:53.46wazdqwerty12_N810: how dare you :D
15:53.56Jaffawazd: eh? My point is that seeing it in a demo doesn't mean it's pre-installed necessarily, unless - and this is why I asked - the demo is explicitly of a cleanly flashed device
15:54.00qwerty12_N810wazd: Sorry, your Highness :(
15:54.34JaffaBut the current OMWeather UI in Fremantle's a bit weird (very very detailed forecast view) which seems like a step back from diablo and your mockups
15:55.18lopzhola
15:55.25JaffaBut that's a separate issue.
15:55.44qwerty12_N810wazd: Having it pre-installed is a contradiction to having it on the frontpage of maemo.nokia.com, under the "Maemo Select preview" section
15:55.57Jaffaqwerty12_N810: Good point.
15:56.52ali1234how do i stop this thing from turning off when i'm at the boot menu?
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15:57.28wazdJaffa: of course it's weird, cause it's not my work :D
15:58.10Jaffawazd: :)
15:58.24wazdJaffa: I'm trying to take this stuff under control right now
15:58.52wazdJaffa: Have some pretty awesome ideas for it, sure you'll like it :)
15:59.14wazdOne idea is so awesome that I can't beleive that I came up with it :D
16:00.25wazdThe weird thing that vlad was suggested with that blueish widget look from outsource designer and it started to look just like Foreca
16:00.34*** join/#maemo djinn (n=supreet@59.178.148.29)
16:01.07wazdBut I'll fix it asap
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16:04.21slonopotamustricks his dog to press 'accept' button
16:05.59javispedrosues slonopotamus' dog.
16:07.26Stskeepsyour dog isn't a legal persson and you don't have right to use sw.. :P
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16:25.47mgedminspeciesism!
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16:53.25_berto_http://www.mobilenewscwp.co.uk/News/314511/nokia_networks_may_reject_n900.html
16:54.16SpeedEvilhas been saying that for some time.
16:55.14mgedmin$cussword networks!
16:55.18Jaffa_berto_: Which is weird because of course they'd be able to add a repo or install an app
16:55.54Jaffa_berto_: Anssi going on about step 4 was odd during the keynote. Now he's saying it in the press is almost like he's briefing *against* Maemo.
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16:56.14Jaffawonders if he's onboard with the move to Maemo as a replacement for Symbian on high-end devices.
16:56.42adeusmaemos is a rather bastard-child still in nokia..
16:56.54SpeedEvilJaffa: What the thingy clearly means is 'can't add fixed menu items that the user cannot remove' - which is correct - generally
16:56.55AndrewFBlackkonttori_, you around
16:57.06JaffaSpeedEvil: Ah, maybe.
16:57.11SpeedEvilJaffa: at least without complex DRMy stuff
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16:57.30zerojayI wanna see Quake 3 running on the n900
16:57.34qwerty12_N810Unfortunately, the article may be "omitting details" as branding is not just menus. Old Vodafone K750is had the ability to set MP3s as ringtones, for example.
16:57.43SpeedEvilyeah.
16:57.57qwerty12_N810*wouldn't let you set MP3s as ringtones
16:58.10SpeedEvilqwerty12_N810: it's stuff like being able to enforce only being able to purchase <foo> from your cellphone provider
16:58.14javispedroyeah, because they can actually customize menus
16:58.21javispedrojust install a shitload crap apps
16:58.24JaffaSpeedEvil: But with Ovi, Nokia won't want that anyway
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16:59.41SpeedEvilJaffa: Personally I don't see a problem with 'branding' - as long as the user is informed of it beforehand.
17:00.38_berto_SpeedEvil: in all the phones that I've had there were a few annoying Vodafone icons, shortcuts and menu entries that I was unable to remove
17:00.51_berto_It's probably not that simple to do that in the N900
17:01.02SpeedEvil_berto_: exactly.
17:01.16_berto_desktop applets can be removed
17:01.35lcukare widgets active
17:01.38SpeedEvil_berto_: Would - however - you accept it if it was - and you could get the N900 for a small amount down and a suitable contract.
17:01.51SpeedEvil_berto_: rather than all up front. I know I might.
17:01.52lcuklike the apps on the main task switcher
17:01.58qwerty12_N810The idea of being able to get "root" easily probably isn't looked upon with happiness
17:02.13_berto_SpeedEvil: yes, I have a contract and that's not a terrible problem for me
17:02.29adeusand that's just the operators being stupid
17:02.36adeusmost users wont know or care about roots
17:02.43mgedminand branches
17:02.55SpeedEviladeus: you don't care about them not knowing about root (as an operator)
17:03.10SpeedEviladeus: you care about them being able to easily install something that will remove their branding.
17:04.03adeusof all the things I've had to do in this business, the word evil has always come to mind when dealing with operators..
17:04.35SpeedEvilYes - they have been doing - many of them - extremely stupid things.
17:05.13adeuswe used to have a top list of the most stupid requirements on our project bulletin board
17:05.38SpeedEvilPersonally it wouldn't surprise me if they want to build a - small - community of n900 'beta testers' - before pushing it out to mass market in some form.
17:05.55mgedminme! me! pick me!
17:06.29SpeedEvilI mean beta testers who self-select buy buying the unsubsidised hardware.
17:06.46SpeedEvilby buying
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17:07.45adeusnot directly an operator (at least here), but one company that sells sms ringtone services was really good at making insane requests :)
17:08.12qwerty12_N810Make it so the user cannot unsubscribe? =)
17:08.15mgedminSpeedEvil: they're called "early adopters"
17:08.16SpeedEvilwhat project adeus?
17:08.26SpeedEvilmgedmin: yeah - I know
17:08.49adeuswell proprietary so I rather not say
17:09.26SpeedEvilmgedmin: I was not using that term as it implies they would normally have a similar experience to the released hardware - and if later ones have branding locks of some form...
17:09.32javispedroSpeedEvil, they already did that with the n810 lol
17:09.33SpeedEvil(some later)
17:09.48SpeedEviljavispedro: true :)
17:10.03mgedminremembers when lack of any GSM capability was touted as a Good Thing because it Freed Us From Evil Network Operators
17:10.04SpeedEviljavispedro: But not with the app-store and stuff
17:10.28SpeedEviladeus: Aww - I was hoping for a list of stupid requirements.
17:10.40javispedroand, if Anssi is to be believed, this n900 is a "public beta testing" too for the final product (the N1000, also known as the Nokiatrix)
17:10.40RST38hmgedmin: Only if you are on toadstool diet
17:10.41SpeedEviladeus: Did any contravene the laws of physics?
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17:10.57adeusyes
17:11.06adeusand many required us to read the minds of the user
17:11.14SpeedEvil:)
17:11.22RST38hmgedmin: But in the US, it is really THAT bad
17:11.55adeusis Harmattan N100 now?
17:12.36Jaffajavispedro: Sods law says that the N900 will be as good as "The Matrix", and the N1000 as good as "The Matrix Reloaded" :-(
17:12.48Jaffaadeus: I'd guess at "N01"
17:13.06javispedroJaffa: I actually say that to myself when I bought the N810.
17:13.20javispedroAnd here we are, with the N900 being "The Matrix".
17:13.21SpeedEvilDoes anyone happen to have a n900 - and can say if it can take a picture at night of the stars - and show any? Planets? Of course it'll pick up the moon.
17:13.30SpeedEvilis wondering about a star compass.
17:13.38SpeedEvil(99.99% useless)
17:13.53RST38hSpeed: No it cannot.
17:13.54javispedrouploads 10 MiB to garage
17:13.58RST38hSpeed: Next question.
17:14.30RST38hJaffa: Is Nokia planning the T- line of tablets? =)
17:14.31SpeedEvilAccel + sun in frame would actually give you quite a good compass.
17:14.36RST38hAs in T2000?
17:14.46JaffaRST38h: heh
17:14.55javispedroRST38h: I still have my Palm T-X here.
17:15.17RST38hjavispedro: The real trick is to make it run WebOS =)
17:15.33RST38hor whatever that html-based think is called
17:15.33javispedrowell, it runs angstrom.....
17:15.37RST38hAh
17:15.56javispedro(this time tho, I admit it _crawls_ angstrom more than run it)
17:16.37javispedrowith a mere 32 MiB, I don't think it's going to run Mer anytime soon (until they show me the URL to that Mer Tamagotchi port :D )
17:16.44javispedro(neither WebOS)
17:18.18RST38hhas got a 32MB Linux board here, it runs ok
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17:18.34RST38hCan't handle Sims of course, but runs many other games
17:19.04javispedrothe kernel takes nearly a quarter of it
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17:19.34ShadowJKhas a 8M ram linux thing running a web server
17:20.04ShadowJKA 24 ram 'server' running debian
17:20.08javispedrowith Mer? :D
17:20.25javispedrocause the problem is anything GUI.
17:20.26ShadowJK32 ram nas/router/vpn server
17:20.30ShadowJKYa
17:20.42ShadowJKNo it's debian sid, iirc
17:20.57RST38hshrugs, remembering when >600kB FreeBSD kernel was considered big
17:21.06ShadowJKApt-get is the heaviest task it ever sees :)
17:21.22RST38hOSF/1 had a 10MB "microkernel" though =)
17:21.24ShadowJKIt's so old it's literally rusting.
17:21.28derf640k should be enough for anybody.
17:21.39RST38hcertainly
17:21.40javispedroremembers PilotOS with 256KiB _total storage_ (heap+files), then Garnet with 32 MiB RAM and still struggling.
17:22.09SpeedEvilI have a Z88
17:22.11RST38hremembers CP/M-80, just to beat javispedro at remembering
17:22.26SpeedEvilIt's sort of a netbook for the early 90s.
17:22.31RST38hyea
17:22.32javispedrono need to beat me at remembering :)
17:22.54SpeedEvilhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Z88
17:23.12SpeedEvilFun
17:24.13RST38hSpeedEvil: I have got one of these: http://www.taswegian.com/MOSCOW/mk-85.html
17:24.29RST38hSpeedEvil: it is actually a 16bit computer compatible with DEC PDP11
17:25.34SpeedEvilI also have a ZX81 motherboard somewhere :)
17:26.19RST38hno longer has his Speccy
17:26.31RST38hAnd the MK-52 is also forever gone...
17:27.03SpeedEvilRST38h: See the spectrum 'upgrade' on youtube?
17:27.10SpeedEvilbadgerboard
17:27.16SpeedEvilbeaverboard
17:27.34RST38hSpeed: I know of many Speccy upgrades
17:27.50RST38hSpeed: Including one where the whole thing is implemented in FPGAs that can be modified at runtime
17:28.00*** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein)
17:28.22RST38hSpeed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprinter_%28computer%29
17:28.22_berto_i still have my speccys at home ;)
17:28.25SpeedEvilyeah - this is one with a beagleboard stuck inside - wired up to the original keyb - with USB ports out the expansion connecor.
17:28.54_berto_I even tried to load GNOME, but with no luck: http://www.flickr.com/photos/29913312@N04/2803266990/
17:29.17javispedroKDE will.
17:29.22SpeedEvil:)
17:29.36SpeedEviljavispedro: yeah - swapping to tape is a bitch though.
17:29.44RST38hberto: You obviously got a bad tape
17:30.05RST38hSpeed: Beagleboard is no Speccy...
17:30.18SpeedEvilI knwo.
17:30.21_berto_RST38h: yes :(
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17:30.39RST38hSpeed: Has to be the real thing, to be real hardcore. PLDs actually qualify, but just barely
17:30.40SpeedEvilhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0qh7dvaH98
17:30.53SpeedEvilRST38h: yeah - this is just reusing the original case
17:31.27lardman|afkwhat's the latest image version? 5.2008.43-7 ?
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17:32.34zerojayYep
17:36.36kirmatalking about "8M RAM linux running web server" ... there are proof-of-concept web servers that have RAM in the scale of tens of bytes
17:37.04adeuswell answering to tcp socket with ascii is not that difficult
17:37.12kirmaand putting one that has at most like couple kilobytes is actually something that may have been deployed quite a bit
17:37.13adeusnetcat is enough :P
17:37.50kirmathe whole OS and everything running on these things is in couple kilobytes of RAM and ROM
17:38.13kirmaand they use ethernet, IP, TCP and HTTP...
17:38.43kirmaI'd say that in many regards, eight megabytes for running a low-load web server is hugely inefficient :)
17:38.51*** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@stgt-5d84975a.pool.mediaWays.net)
17:38.52adeusyes definitely
17:39.41adeusif you don't cache, I can't even imagine what takes up 8MB
17:39.56*** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@a88-112-120-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
17:41.32SpeedEvila proper tcp stack requires a fair bit
17:41.38SpeedEvilmost of a K IIRC of RAM
17:44.23SpeedEvilhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooi9rpx6ECM&feature=related RST38h
17:44.26SpeedEvil:)
17:44.43comhack<PROTECTED>
17:45.30adeusyes a K
17:45.31adeusomg
17:45.35adeusfrom megabyes
17:45.36adeus+t
17:45.42kirmaadeus: the kernel, ad obscenely overweight userland libraries
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18:02.40lardman|afkanyone know if I can stop a python thread somehow?
18:02.45lardman|afkor rather does anyone know how?
18:04.02*** part/#maemo mtl (i=mtl@83.150.121.18)
18:04.38slonopotamuslardman|afk, you don't want that
18:05.10_berto_kill -9
18:05.31slonopotamus_berto_, that won't stop single thread only
18:05.51_berto_:-D
18:06.11_berto_of course it has side effects
18:06.21*** join/#maemo hannesw_ (n=hannes@91-115-216-255.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
18:06.26slonopotamuslardman|afk, just make it check some boolean flag and set it from another thread
18:06.43slonopotamus_berto_, meh, side effects... use haskell!
18:07.44lardman|afkslonopotamus: it runs a fn, I was hoping to be able to just kill the thread
18:08.27lardman|afkI guess I could make the class it runs global, then access it from elsewhere to tell it to stop, assuming it supports that
18:08.50slonopotamuslardman|afk, i doubt you can safely force thread stop in any language.
18:09.41lardman|afkwell it's at shutdown mainly, or are the threads all killed then?
18:10.04*** join/#maemo frade_home (n=ivan@a88-114-94-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
18:10.05slonopotamuslardman|afk, that's a special case
18:10.45lardman|afkI really need to flash a new image onto my N800, this N810 camera is really annoying me
18:12.06lardman|afkvery hard to aim
18:13.33slonopotamuspasses lardman|afk laser pointer. or however you call it
18:14.33lardman|afkyeah laser pointer
18:15.42lardman|afkhmm, why do I use Windows?
18:15.54lardman|afkis there any known way to get the Windows flasher to work?
18:16.07zerojayYou enjoy torture?
18:16.18SpeedEvilYou are a microsoft shill?
18:16.19lardman|afkyeah work/torture
18:16.27qwerty12_N810points lardman|afk to flasher-3.5, which comes with a Windows build
18:16.28lardman|afkall the above :)
18:16.42lardman|afkah, qwerty12_N810, you're a star
18:17.51lardman|afktablets-dev.nokia.com is vvvvveeeeeerrrrryyyyyy slow
18:17.54lardman|afklike Garage
18:18.52slonopotamusthe only reason to use windows i know - to play games
18:19.04lardman|afkwork too
18:19.10lardman|afkbut yes, games are in there
18:19.40lardman|afkcoding using Windows for an Nokia internet tablet is not the best, but Python works ok
18:19.49lardman|afkwill still be happy to boot back to Ubuntu though
18:19.57VDVsxlardman|afk, the server is an 770, what do you expect ;P
18:20.43lardman|afkoh I thought they'd upgraded and added another one?
18:21.00VDVsxmaybe a n800 now, not sure
18:21.04lardman|afksupper time, bbiab
18:21.06lardman|afk:)
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18:39.07johnsqHi
18:40.12esaym153I need the source code for what ever controls the music that the alarm plays
18:40.15slono[beer]johnsq, aloha
18:40.24esaym153alarmd? osso_worldclock ?
18:40.53esaym153not sure which but I can't find source code for either one... >:(
18:42.46slono[beer]alarmd is closed afaik
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18:46.39lardman|foooodqwerty12_N810: do you know where it gets installed?
18:47.00lardman|foooodah silly question
18:47.25qwerty12_N810In a C:\Program Files\Maemo folder IIRC, but it has a command prompt shortcut too
18:47.41lardman|foooodhmm, could 't see that, will have another look
18:48.19qwerty12_N810It's in C:\Program Files for sure anyway; so hit the search button...
18:48.20lardman|foooodwindows is so stupid, it highlights newly installed programs, except that sometimes it forgets
18:48.21javispedrowhy use the cmd line flasher, when the wizard works?
18:48.30qwerty12_N810wizard sucks ass
18:48.30lardman|fooooddoens't for me
18:48.45qwerty12_N810If you have rd-mode enabled, it takes it upon itself to disable it
18:48.46javispedroused the wizard the first time :D
18:49.07lardman|foooodI've never got it to work
18:49.12javispedrooh.
18:49.22Jaffaqwerty12_N810: Why've you got R&D mode enabled? rootsh not good enough? ;-)
18:49.42javispedroI'd guess both the flasher and wizard share connectivity layer, it'll be interesting to see if the cmd line flasher works.
18:50.14qwerty12_N810Jaffa: The N810's power button is rather annoying compared to the N800 one...
18:50.54qwerty12_N810For the record, I actually use sudser
18:51.20lardman|foooodhmm, I have the latest image it appears, so no need for the flasher
18:51.27lardman|foooodbut no SSU, I wonder why
18:51.43lardman|fooooddid we have to add another repo or somewhing ?
18:52.15slono[beer]lardman|fooood, lardman, lardman|afk, apt-get update && apt-get upgrade?
18:52.28slono[beer]lardman|home, ^
18:52.31lardman|homedid that, but via the app manager
18:52.46*** join/#maemo tonikitoo (n=tonikito@189.2.128.130)
18:53.13Jason404can just about any Imux app be run on Maemo?
18:53.14RST38htwitterers!
18:53.22Jaffalardman|home: "Check for updates"?
18:53.23Jason404I meant Linux
18:53.25javispedroImux?
18:53.26javispedrolol
18:53.35keesjapt-get hardware-upgrade
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18:54.11Jason404javispedro: so, can it?
18:54.22lardman|homekeesj: can't find it
18:54.23javispedroit's GNU/Linux.
18:54.25qwerty12_N810keesj: You have to add some Nokia secret repo to install N900 :(
18:54.36johnsqjavispedro: no only linux
18:55.01lardman|homemaybe it's up to date
18:55.03lardman|homestrange
18:55.10javispedrocallls Richard Stallman to take care of johnsq
18:55.11lardman|homemust have been a long time since we had any updates
18:55.20javispedroJason404, so, being Linux, of course it'll run "Linux apps".
18:55.27javispedrobut I think you want to be more specific?
18:55.28johnsqjavispedro: Its not my friend and i no friend of him :)
18:55.33Jason404so can I run any Linux app, like rdesktop, on a N900?
18:55.53javispedroJason404, for the record, you can run rdesktop.
18:56.03qwerty12_N810points out that rdesktop is available for the N810, even
18:56.05Jason404oh very vool
18:56.07Jason404cool
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18:57.25Jason404is it, or is it likely to be possible one day,  to hack Maemo so it can run Android apps?
18:57.26*** join/#maemo igagis (n=igagis@ns2.vsev.lanck.net)
18:57.49lardman|homeJason404: already been done
18:57.58Jason404oh very cool
18:58.07Jason404can't wait to get a N900 then
18:58.20lardman|homebit clunky though
18:58.26Jason404looks like a real iPhone killer
18:58.28johnsqbut why should that anybody do? what is the android killer app?
18:58.40lardman|homenot the N900, the Android running stuff
18:58.58lardman|homejohnsq: quite
18:59.08Jason404well, there are likely to be a lot of Andoird apps in the future, so I just was curious to know
18:59.18javispedroactually
18:59.37javispedrowell.. nothing :)
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19:01.49SpeedEviljohnsq: the terminator OS.
19:02.21javispedrocan the N900 run the terminator OS?
19:02.40ali1234the android killer app is the fact that it is almost as good as the iphone OS
19:02.51ali1234but without the baggage
19:03.10Jason404only with HTC Sense
19:03.19johnsqfor this i have linux/x11
19:03.27ali1234hahaha
19:03.43ali1234and what do you use for a phone stack? openmoko? lol
19:04.17lardman|homedo you?
19:04.39johnsqi don't need a phone stack. the killer app is the "phone".
19:05.00javispedrowho needs to do phone calls? according to the latest consumer survey, customers like to "share music", "browse the web", "take photos". Notice how "making actual phone calls" is not there.
19:05.03ali1234i don't use openmoko, no. it is much much much too slow on my hardware. android runs nicely though.
19:05.12ali1234javispedro: you forgot facebook
19:05.20javispedrotouché.
19:05.40Jason404and Skype
19:05.43adeusthe n900 will be interesting as anyone can flash anything on it without any extra things
19:06.00javispedroyes, I plan to flash the Haiku ARM port.
19:06.10javispedro"without any extra things". :P
19:06.12ali1234currently android is being ported to every windows mobile device you can think of
19:06.30ali1234i doubt n900 will be far behind especisally since it already runs linux
19:06.43adeuswell if you've worked with other phones you know what that means :)
19:06.47Jason404is Windows Mobile definietly dead now then?
19:06.50adeusn900 only need a usb cable
19:07.45SpeedEvilopenmoko has come on quite significantly recently.
19:07.57*** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@a213-22-69-165.cpe.netcabo.pt)
19:08.00ali1234well, it's only the recent versions that dont work
19:08.00*** join/#maemo kulve (i=4ae9d230@humboldt.pingu.fi)
19:08.12ali1234i had an old build working almost
19:08.17ali1234then they changed it all around
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19:10.17fiferboy_I have developed a desktop widget for fremantle; would someone be willing to test it on an N900?
19:11.51fiferboyI've tested it in scratchbox, but it is hard to tell how it will look with all the glitches there
19:12.18fiferboyIt is a customizable countdown displayer
19:12.29Jason404egg timer?
19:12.32SpeedEvilDoes it play the appropriate tune?
19:12.38SpeedEvil<PROTECTED>
19:12.45SpeedEvilThe Final Countdown.
19:13.15fiferboyJason404: Not exactly an egg timer - it is more for upcoming dates (years, weeks, days, hours, minutes - all configurable)
19:13.15Jason404i hate that song
19:13.37fiferboySpeedEvil: The next version mayl have the ability to play it
19:13.55Jason404ic.  I thought the calandar was for that sort of thing
19:14.23Jason404i know wha you mean actually
19:14.53fiferboyIt is countdown-home (from older maemo releases) for fremantle
19:15.06*** join/#maemo L0cMini9 (n=kki@94.161.38.154)
19:15.24lardman|homeI saw some python code to tell the direction of the N800 camera, anyone have a link?
19:15.28fiferboyI don't know what the home calendar does, since it isn't available in the SDK
19:15.59fiferboyBut this is more a "time remaining until" so you can see to the minutes when your vacation starts, or how many days since your last oil change
19:16.05qwerty12_N810lardman|home: /system/osso/af/camera-has-turned
19:16.15fiferboy(it does "time passed since" as well)
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19:17.02SpeedEvillardman: using the accels?
19:17.06ali1234has anyone got a standard maemo kernel + kexec working?
19:17.22lardman|homeSpeedEvil: N800
19:17.35SpeedEviltries to recall if the n800 has magnetometer.
19:17.45RST38hNo
19:17.47lardman|homeand while I'm at it, where's the /proc or /dev entry to tell an N800 apart from an N810
19:17.51lardman|homeSpeedEvil: no, nothjing
19:17.52RST38hSame on deadly lasers
19:18.05lardman|homehas a radio though
19:18.14qwerty12_N810lardman|home: have fun reading /proc/component_version
19:18.36lardman|homeah great, just looked through proc and missed it
19:18.37lardman|homethanks
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19:24.45lardman|homewhat's the RX number for the N810, anyone got it handy?
19:24.58lardman|homeand the 770 if you have it?
19:25.25qwerty12_N810770 (IIRC): SU-18 and N810: RX-44 (wimax one is 48)
19:25.33lardman|homethanks
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19:34.40JaffaHmm, key-based SSH into my N810's stopped working. (Can't remember when it last was). /etc/ssh/sshd_config looks reasonable, .ssh & .ssh/authorized_keys have the right values. Any ideas?
19:35.16Proteouswhat error do you get
19:35.39SpeedEvilJaffa: permissions?
19:35.42JaffaNo error, it just falls back to password based
19:35.44MekI think the user account is disabled in /etc/passwd or something
19:36.01JaffaSpeedEvil: /home/user/.ssh = 700, /home/user/.ssh/authorized_keys = 600
19:36.02SpeedEvilJaffa: sshd is picky on the permissions of those files
19:36.10SpeedEvilthink that's right
19:36.21Proteousyeah, but it was working
19:36.48Proteousthe file permissions don't change themselves
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19:37.10qwerty12_N810Jaffa: Someone else had the same problem and looking at the file Mek mentioned helped
19:37.35SpeedEvilProteous: sure - however not quite right backup/restore can break forex
19:37.36MekI think it maybe was changing a ! to a * in that file
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19:38.22Proteouscan you login with a password
19:38.45JaffaOh, hang on.
19:39.08Jaffa.ssh/id_rsa on my desktop seems to be ascii based
19:39.19Jaffadebug3: Not a RSA1 key file /home/andrew/.ssh/id_rsa.
19:39.19Jaffadebug2: key_type_from_name: unknown key type '-----BEGIN'
19:39.21JaffaWTF?
19:39.36Proteousheh
19:40.04JaffaHmm, but that works when I'm talking to my servers.
19:40.09Jaffa(using the same ssh client)
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19:47.08Jaffahttp://paste2.org/p/413650 is the log, ending at the difference between connecting to badger.bleb.org and my nxx
19:47.18Jaffas/my nxx/my N810/
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19:54.17JaffaHmm, seems that the user account needs a password set; even if you never use it.
19:54.20JaffaNot sure what changed.
19:54.36crashanddieisn't that some RFC standard?
19:54.43slono[more_beer]Jaffa, moon phase?
19:54.52Mekit doesn't need a password, just not a !
19:54.53crashanddiepassword should be deactivated if no password set? Same as with most directories
19:55.36qwerty12_N810evenin', crashanddie
19:55.43crashanddieevenin' q
19:55.51crashanddiethat tab complete failed massively
19:56.06Jaffacrashanddie: Yeah, but I want to use key-based login only
19:56.11*** join/#maemo ali12341 (n=al@robotfuzz.co.uk)
19:56.34crashanddieJaffa, are you using a directory-like backend? Or home-grown?
19:57.04Jaffacrashanddie: This is just using straight, non-PAM (AFAICT) login on Maemo 4.
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19:57.58crashanddieJaffa, SSH?
19:58.16Jaffacrashanddie: Correct
19:58.23JaffaAnyway, film time.
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19:58.38crashanddieJaffa, I think you can force the account to be activated, but you'll need an extra step during user creation
19:59.03crashanddieJaffa, regardless, if password-based authentication is disabled, you could set a default password for every user (or random) and done
20:00.03slono[more_beer]prefers '*' as password hash
20:00.23crashanddiestrong authentication ftw
20:00.51kirmajaffa: ... about "sharing services" API ... any idea if that's already/going to be also on symbian phones, and if there's any place to find more info about it?
20:01.07*** join/#maemo MrGoose (n=cache@5ac86e7c.bb.sky.com)
20:01.10crashanddiebrb
20:01.27*** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@p57B65501.dip.t-dialin.net)
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20:04.58crashanddie_~seen GAN800
20:05.02infobotgan800 <n=ryan@32.162.120.214> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 20h 58m 19s ago, saying: 'Can't use Bluetooth DUN, can't use adhoc.'.
20:05.17crashanddie_~seen generalantilles
20:05.19infobotgeneralantilles <n=GeneralA@c-98-230-62-25.hsd1.fl.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 3h 48m 42s ago, saying: 'Later.'.
20:05.24crashanddie_dayum
20:05.50zerojayWow, that's a surprise.
20:06.14crashanddie_zerojay, meaning?
20:07.21Sho_Is there any word yet on a developer rebate program for the N800, similar to the N810?
20:07.25zerojayHe's usually here almost all the time.
20:07.29Sho_*for the n900
20:07.54*** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net)
20:07.58zerojayProbably gotta wait for Maemo Summit.
20:08.09crashanddie_Sho_, this being nokia and all: iyntafiywgi
20:08.33Sho_crashanddie_: my acronym parser chokes on that one
20:08.42crashanddie_Sho_, if you need to ask for it, you won't get it
20:09.01Sho_mhm
20:09.35crashanddie_just stop smoking and let's help the big corporations make some cash :)
20:13.50*** join/#maemo gunni (n=quassel@xdsl-81-173-251-83.netcologne.de)
20:14.36Sho_crashanddie_: I don't smoke, and as an open source developer I help various big corporations make some cash ;)
20:16.47crashanddie_wazd[1_5l-of_bee, that'll do
20:17.00wazdsorry for that :D
20:17.25crashanddie_Sho_, not that many corps make money out of OS software, and those who do don't make that much.
20:18.31RST38hmoos at wazd
20:18.45*** join/#maemo asj_wrk (n=asj@oh-67-77-28-140.sta.embarqhsd.net)
20:18.51wazdmoos back
20:18.54Sho_crashanddie_: well, Nokia sure is trying to
20:19.14slono|3l_of_beerRST38h, 00:12 here. kinda late for moos :P
20:19.29fiferboyOkay, countdown-home is in fremantle extras-devel
20:19.42fiferboyI would be grateful for any feedback someone with an N900 could give...
20:19.43*** join/#maemo andrei1089 (n=andrei10@81.18.92.10)
20:20.44slono|3l_of_beerit'll be really funny if nokia comes and says 'surprise, we're skipping fremantle and go with harmattan' :)
20:21.47Sho_would like that :)
20:21.51Sho_qt > gtk
20:22.01slono|3l_of_beerno
20:22.07slono|3l_of_beergtk < qt
20:22.07fiferboyputs on flame-proof suit
20:22.52RST38hslono: jumping-over-the-moon time.
20:22.53slono|3l_of_beerfiferboy, saf(v?)ethrow failed
20:23.19fiferboyrolls for half damage
20:23.29slono|3l_of_beerbtw, is harmattan going to be supported on n900?
20:23.50slono|3l_of_beerfiferboy, success! you take 4 damage
20:23.59Sho_no official word, but I hope so, considering it's theoretically easier than fremantle on n810
20:24.08fiferboyThat was a minor flame war indeed.
20:24.24Sho_the big problem with fremantle on n810 is the lack of opengl
20:24.39Sho_there shouldn't be a similar hurdle with harmattan on n900
20:24.44*** join/#maemo knyon (n=knyon@resnet-17-70.dorm.utexas.edu)
20:24.55javispedroactually, I find the lack of GL disturbing, but not the main reason.
20:25.01slono|3l_of_beerSho_, they promised no reflashing for n900. it'll be hard to do gtk->qt upgrade without breaking stuff
20:25.17javispedroless powerful, different hardware components, etc.
20:25.18*** join/#maemo dl9pf (n=dl9pf@opensuse/member/dl9pf)
20:25.27Sho_slono|3l_of_beer: dunno, you can replace gnome with kde quite well on many distros ;-)
20:26.14slono|3l_of_beerSho_, without falling back to console?
20:26.47*** join/#maemo blade_runner (n=arezende@200.184.118.130)
20:27.00Sho_slono|3l_of_beer: well, they can just throw a "upgrade done; please reboot to complete" on screen
20:27.05slono|3l_of_beerblade_runner, beware of occam
20:27.37crashanddie_reboot isn't even required, just cleaning the libs properly and restarting x server, maybe user logout (ok, that may be tricky)
20:27.41Sho_slono|3l_of_beer: the biggest problem would be handling installed applications considering the move of gtk to "community supported"
20:28.37crashanddie_plus, using qt on a device doesn't necessarily mean you can't have gtk installed
20:31.24slono|3l_of_beeryep. but running both eats ram
20:31.33*** join/#maemo L0c (n=kki@94.161.142.74)
20:31.40crashanddie_slono|3l_of_beer, no it doesn't
20:32.04crashanddie_slono|3l_of_beer, a library *installed* doesn't use any more ram that the tons of porn you have in your "My Documents" folder
20:32.06slono|3l_of_beerthey pick bits from thin air?
20:32.10crashanddie_running, using it does
20:32.27slono|3l_of_beeri said 'running'
20:32.37crashanddie_ok, fair point
20:32.52crashanddie_stfu
20:33.19slono|3l_of_beerstores such things in /home/p2p/.aMule/incoming
20:33.34wazdhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/04/optimas-maemo-running-op5-e-mid-demoed-on-video-priced/
20:35.22wazd"Fucking mongorians!" :D
20:36.26asj_wrk2600mah? heh that's not bad battery explains why it's a brick
20:36.30wazdit's even has same shut down sound :)
20:37.53wazdfirst time ever I got into the first time of seeders! Yay!
20:38.17wazdtoo much "time" I think :D
20:40.11wazdhttp://www.webresourcesdepot.com/free-weather-icons-collection/ <- which icons would you like to have in OMWeather?
20:40.26*** part/#maemo padovan (n=pao@201.82.168.98)
20:45.04SpeedEvilIs this a little dock applet - or a weathermap?
20:45.07*** join/#maemo igagis (n=igagis@ns2.vsev.lanck.net)
20:45.39Captain_Picardwazd: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.9
20:45.44Captain_Picardso that device is actually running Mer?
20:46.31wazdCaptain_Picard: nope, it's Maemo 4
20:46.42*** join/#maemo zemm (i=zemm@83.145.242.32)
20:49.11*** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@200.184.118.130)
20:50.56*** join/#maemo frade (n=ivan@esprx02x.nokia.com)
20:51.45*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N810 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
20:53.21SpeedEvilThat's an inevitable consequence of sane free OSs.
20:53.39SpeedEvil'do we buy a license of WinCE/... or install linux on it'
20:53.52*** join/#maemo GAN800 (n=ryan@32.163.195.190)
20:54.29RST38hBut WinCE has got command.com!!!
20:54.53RST38hLinux has no command.com!
20:55.01lcukyeha, anyone can have command.com - its for sale http://command.com/
20:55.27RST38hI bet your command.com does not have C:\ though
20:55.49zerojayGan800: he lives!
21:11.29kirma"Even it's executive vice president of communications, Kari Tuutti candidly told me he is sceptical about the networks' opinion of its computer tablet mobile phone the N900. He reckons the fact the device cannot be customised by networks will hinder operator partnerships."
21:11.36kirmahmmh.
21:11.51kirmaso, it won't be messed up too much by operators?
21:12.25kirmawonder if US operators show their stance and manage to keep it effectively out of the market...
21:12.36kirmaafter all, customer choice... that's bad for the business.
21:15.08*** join/#maemo sphenxes (n=sphenxes@85-127-215-22.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at)
21:18.24*** join/#maemo AStorm (n=astralst@unaffiliated/astralstorm)
21:20.41GAN800zerojay, GPRS only.
21:21.52AStormso guys
21:22.06AStormany info about that Polish N900 hw keyboard layout?
21:22.13AStormsince it's now available for preorder here
21:24.08Firebirdwoot, it works (other than having some screen tearing),  http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3006/dsc03857r.jpg
21:24.32kirmaastorm: I'd guess it has the arrow keys in funny positions too...
21:25.18AStormyou guess. I want to know.
21:25.26AStormso I need someone from Nokia to answer that
21:25.47SpeedEvilDon't each store have a localised image of the product with the keyb slid out?
21:25.53kirmaask their polish customer service number
21:27.51AStormSpeedEvil: nopes.
21:28.00SpeedEvilWell they should!
21:28.14AStormyeah, but they don't
21:28.20kirmaI've been wondering the same, because that might result quite a bit of devices getting returned
21:28.24SpeedEvilAlso - why polish - not UK or US?
21:29.35RST38hGuess?
21:30.14*** join/#maemo frade_home (n=ivan@a88-114-94-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
21:30.27SpeedEvilMy bad - I thought AStorm was in the US for some reason.
21:30.29kirmaastorm: I assume you know how the non-english keyboards tend to look... (?)
21:30.43RST38hYou thought the same about me just days ago
21:31.01AStormkirma: I do, but PL might look otherwise
21:31.06AStormit only needs one modifier
21:31.14AStormfor our diacritics to work
21:31.21RST38hglances at Saturn rings from his window
21:31.41qwerty12_N810Mmm, onion rings
21:31.48kirmawould that be a *typical* keyboard layout?
21:32.06kirmapolish layout I mean
21:32.29RST38hAStorm: I am sure they will use BACKSPACE for that one modifier ;)
21:32.34AStormqwerty with alt-gr
21:32.58qwerty12_N810will not agree to that
21:33.04AStormąśółćżźńĄŚÓŁĆŻŹŃ
21:33.13AStormall the letters.
21:33.39AStormthat's the programmers layout, normal qwerty with those available with altgr + letter
21:33.45AStormwith ź being altgr+x
21:33.49kirmaI use iso-8859-15 :)
21:35.18kirmaI highly suspect that with the layouts I see by a bit of googling, polish layout would be any less arrow-key-munching than the others...
21:35.26lardman|homere
21:35.33AStormkirma: s/any/no/?
21:36.40AStormI wonder what the "arrow" key means
21:37.16AStormand whether it could be replaced by shift+that for the normal function, while plain arrow for altgr
21:37.19AStorm;>
21:37.27kirmathe way they are here: http://www.cs.hut.fi/~kirma/n900-nordic.jpg
21:38.00AStormno, nordic has 2 diacritics
21:38.04AStormpolish needs one modifier
21:38.14AStormso they could abuse the arrow key for that
21:39.03AStormwhat does russian one look like?
21:39.09kirmaI still suggest calling nokia hotline :)
21:39.19AStormkirma: as if they could answer
21:39.24AStormand especially at 0 AM
21:39.26AStorm;P
21:39.41*** join/#maemo jrocha (n=JRocha@40.86.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com)
21:39.41kirmamaybe not exactly now, but doesn't seem we would either solve it...
21:39.59AStormwell, Nokia employees visit here every now and then
21:40.01AStormmight've been lucky
21:42.56crashanddie_no
21:43.05crashanddie_Nokia employees are trolls who never leave their caves
21:43.28crashanddie_the only time they join the madness of our civilisation is when their much beloved flies die
21:43.39AStormhahaha
21:43.56*** join/#maemo acouto (n=adriano@201.56.102.13)
21:44.23*** join/#maemo acouto (n=adriano@201.56.102.13)
21:44.59RST38hAll right. Sleep time.
21:45.54mavhcluckily their caves have fiber
21:49.13kirmaheh
21:53.25*** part/#maemo MrGoose (n=cache@5ac86e7c.bb.sky.com)
21:54.42Proteousfound out one of the guys I game with online is a nokia OS developer
21:56.03kirmawonders if people involved with maemo/symbian/other nokia stuff in his circle of friends is counted in more than two dozen or less
21:56.22kirmaprobably more...
21:58.00crashanddie_nokia OS?
21:58.05crashanddie_is that like the new chrome competitor?
21:58.13crashanddie_everyone going to put out their new linux distribution?
21:58.19kirma:)
21:59.18SpeedEvilcrashanddie_: could be worse things to happen.
22:02.55lardman|homeanyone know the sysfs entry for the N800 camera roation setting?
22:04.43AStormthere is one?
22:04.53lardman|homeyeah
22:05.46lbtlardman|home: I know the dbus one
22:06.19lardman|homethat would be equally good, assuming I work out how to do DBus with Python ;)
22:06.33lbtseriously?
22:06.39lardman|homeyep
22:06.48lbthttp://pastebin.com/d3c95d601
22:07.03lardman|homethanks :)
22:07.06lbthttp://pastebin.com/d3c95d601
22:07.14lbtI meant : http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2009/09/grandcentral-for-mer-connecting.html
22:07.37lardman|homegreat, thanks :)
22:07.39lbtit's a way to be able to say : connect(camera, "Camera.active", takePhotoAfter10Secs)
22:08.04lbtyou doing anything similar?
22:10.14lardman|homeI just want to be able to flip the camera output, knowing whether the camera is rotated
22:10.21lardman|homeam writing a barcode decoder app
22:10.54lbthmm, I think powerlaunch has something... sec
22:11.08derfYeah, the QR decoder will actively not work with the image upside-down.
22:11.20derfActually, no, wait, it will.
22:11.33lardman|homehmm, didn't before ;)
22:12.01derfHmm, maybe not then. I forget which transformations I actually allowed.
22:12.31derfI know you can't invert black/white.
22:12.42lardman|homeso n810 you have to bend backwards to see the screen, but n800 is almost as bad - put at ease by it facing you, it moved in the wrong directions! :)
22:12.43derfThough I almost considered allowing that one, too.
22:13.17derfThese aren't hard to add, they'll just make it slower and more subject to false positives.
22:13.18SpeedEvillardman: does flash work on the n810 - I forget
22:13.21lardman|homelet me sort the autorotation, then we can get onto what does or doesn't work :)
22:13.27AStormSpeedEvil: it does
22:13.32lardman|homeSpeedEvil: evil Flash, yes
22:13.34AStormnot fast, but yes
22:13.38*** join/#maemo stv0 (n=steffen@dslb-084-063-115-077.pools.arcor-ip.net)
22:13.50SpeedEvilYou've seen http://en.barcodepedia.com/ ?
22:13.51SpeedEvillardman
22:14.00lardman|homeyep, am planning on scraping it
22:14.07SpeedEvilI've never actually gotten the flash applet to ever recognise a barcode at all
22:14.18lardman|homeI didn't realise there was one
22:14.47SpeedEvilI have recently been scraping my local supermarket that delivers - tesco - database.
22:15.03SpeedEvilAnd am trying to integrate a barcodereader on my bin
22:15.27kirmatesco branded database engines?
22:15.29SpeedEvilCurrently I'm using a penci+notepad - to note down everything thrown away - which is annoying
22:15.41SpeedEvilNo :)
22:15.49SpeedEvilponders tesco value databases.
22:15.58SpeedEviltesco.com - groceries
22:16.18SpeedEvilTo find for example the list of sku's that's dropped in price by 50% since last week
22:16.28*** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@stgt-5d84975a.pool.mediaWays.net)
22:16.39SpeedEvilAnd if it's non-perishable to let me order 6-12 months worth
22:16.40lardman|homeI need a lisrt of my books/CDs/DVDs
22:16.51SpeedEvillardman: yeah - that too.
22:16.56lardman|homethough a list of the contents of the cupboard/fridge/freezer would also be useful
22:17.10*** join/#maemo nomis (n=simon@sign-5d83da85.pool.mediaWays.net)
22:17.25lardman|homethat's my driving force, and decoding dmtx and QR to produce some useful out0put will also be cool
22:18.13lardman|homehmm, I thought perhaps /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/cam_turn/direction would do the job, but no
22:18.32*** join/#maemo julianoliver (n=julian@33.Red-81-35-27.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
22:18.47SpeedEvilWhat would be also very very cool would be to be if you could take a pic in a shop of a barcode and it'd show you competitors prices.
22:19.06SpeedEvilharder though.
22:19.07AStormwhich are usually still worse
22:19.08lardman|homeyes, the Android app does that
22:19.09AStorm;)
22:19.22lardman|homeit is planned, patches welcome once I get something working out
22:19.23AStormpity the shop dbs aren't comprehensive enough
22:19.29AStormor in a nice format for scraping
22:19.48lardman|homethe Android one even locates shops close to you
22:19.53lardman|homephysical ones
22:20.03AStormyeah, I wonder how well it'd work in Poland
22:20.03lardman|homethat's also on the list of things to do
22:20.06AStormI guess not at all
22:20.11*** part/#maemo stv0 (n=steffen@dslb-084-063-115-077.pools.arcor-ip.net)
22:20.26lardman|homenot well in the UK either, which is why it's still in the planning stage ;)
22:20.31SpeedEvilAStorm: yeah - the tesco one is actually not bad at all
22:20.41SpeedEvilAStorm: but it doesn't of course have barcode
22:20.53lardman|homeSpeedEvil: well if you want to add a Tesco scraper you're more than welcome
22:21.06lardman|homeI need to sort out an API so people can add in their own stores to search
22:21.19SpeedEvillardman: largely pointless without the db showing barcodes I think
22:21.51SpeedEvillardman: but a general modal 'scan stuff in' thing would be good.
22:22.14lardman|homedo you have a Tescos stock db then?
22:23.15SpeedEvillardman: put it in scan in mode - it scans barcodes, and if it doesn't know it it asks for a pic and a title
22:23.28SpeedEvilhttp://www.mauve.plus.com/output.03092009
22:23.41SpeedEviltab seperated mostly working
22:24.06SpeedEviland adds the item to a database
22:24.16SpeedEvilput it in scan out mode - and it subtracts one from the quantity
22:25.01SpeedEvilthe file 'output' is a couple of weeks earlier
22:26.09lardman|homebut you source the price data directly from the Tesco computer system?
22:26.56SpeedEvilno
22:26.57SpeedEvilscrape
22:27.00*** join/#maemo zerojay (n=zerojay@modemcable180.240-23-96.mc.videotron.ca)
22:27.13lardman|homeah ok
22:32.39*** join/#maemo razr (n=razr@cs181132189.pp.htv.fi)
22:33.14razrg'day
22:33.42razrWhat would be the reason that when running osso-xterm, only the keypad's "enter" key works?
22:34.16razr(running from scratchbox)
22:34.31razr(Maemo5b2)
22:34.46lardman|homedon't ask me :)
22:35.30razrsure :)
22:36.26razrThere's just something very "classical-concerto-pianist" about jumping 10 cm to press one key from time to time...
22:37.05lardman|homestrange
22:37.16wazdrazr: with crossed hands :D
22:37.17lardman|homeeven with the N800 in scratchbox the kb worked
22:37.40wazdFreddie Mercury style :)
22:37.52razrhaha
22:38.29lbtxmodmap 36 = KP_Enter
22:38.46razrlbt: makes sense, I guess i'll just do that
22:39.06razr(in fact before running xev just now i always thought they generate the exact same keycode)
22:39.45lbtwe have the same problem on Mer with USB keyboards
22:39.57lbtI think it's a HIM thing... not sure
22:39.59lardman|homeare you saying that the Return key doesn't work, or none of the keys but the Enter key work?
22:40.05lardman|homeI thought the latter
22:40.28*** join/#maemo alecrim (n=alecrim@189.2.128.130)
22:40.33lbtthe main return key doesn't work, just the numeric keypad one
22:40.38razryea
22:45.44lardman|homehmm, if videoflip is not provided in the maemo version of plugins-good, how is it done on the N800?
22:47.14qwerty12_N810lardman|home: I was given this URL once: http://git.collabora.co.uk/?p=gst-plugins-farsight.git;a=blob;f=ext/gconf/gstgconfv4l2src.c;h=1833abb308aea9e3c636dac8e58d2f7a126d24d8;hb=HEAD
22:47.32lardman|homejust browsing that now, from your link on itt :)
22:49.52lardman|homegstvideoorientation, will give it a go :)
22:52.42*** join/#maemo GiantTalkingCow (n=GiantTal@adsl-75-62-238-92.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
22:57.32lardman|homehmm, doesn't look like it works in Python
22:57.45lardman|homein the C code it looks like it's applied to the src, doesn't work here
22:57.50lardman|homeanyway, worth a try
22:59.07esaym153any tricks to make the gps on the n810 sync faster?
22:59.20lardman|homeuse agps-ui
23:05.32*** join/#maemo mavhk (n=mavhc@cpc1-basf7-0-0-cust298.nott.cable.ntl.com)
23:06.22*** join/#maemo disco_stu_N800 (n=wrt54gl@190.216.32.137)
23:07.16Jaffakirma: I know nothing about Symbian. It
23:07.28Jaffas APIs would be different anyway
23:09.00*** join/#maemo b-man16 (n=b-man16@pool-98-115-72-54.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net)
23:09.35b-man16http://elgoog.rb-hosting.de/index.cgi
23:09.38b-man16LOL!!!
23:10.44pupnikinitial youtube responses on N900 generally good
23:11.07pupnikgives you a feel for what the kidz think
23:12.18AStormI've heard from an unreliable source that the preorder prices will be higher than the latter ones...
23:12.23AStorm*later
23:12.30simulai would think so AStorm :)
23:12.36lcukpupnik, i would have my own video up there :)
23:12.40AStormit should be the other way around ;)
23:16.30*** join/#maemo soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
23:21.09*** join/#maemo reklipz (n=user@h211.162.23.98.static.ip.windstream.net)
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23:23.30*** join/#maemo univac (n=univac@148.81.171.50)
23:24.07MrGoosewho did this? http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/04/video-nokia-n900-used-to-control-british-art-installation/
23:27.48*** join/#maemo smackpotato (n=user@bas4-sudbury98-1279295317.dsl.bell.ca)
23:28.14smackpotatowhat happened to garage
23:28.50javispedroit's slow I guess. I've been loading it the whole day and must be tired now :P
23:29.46VDVsxMrGoose, lcuk did
23:30.09smackpotatook how come there are no links to it on maemo.org
23:30.28javispedrolinks to garage? there are quite a few. even the "Login" link links to garage.
23:31.14smackpotatoi i must be near sighted
23:35.27MrGoosewhy torture us?
23:35.37javispedroThe "development" section has one, there's a news section dedicated to Garage.
23:38.23smackpotatogot it
23:43.41*** join/#maemo vladovg (n=vladooo@91.139.148.54)
23:43.48*** part/#maemo vladovg (n=vladooo@91.139.148.54)
23:43.55*** join/#maemo vladovg (n=vladooo@91.139.148.54)
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23:45.16vladovghi
23:45.28vladovghave quston
23:46.39vladovgdid some noticet the batteri isiu
23:47.01vladovgmain is actink lici is metalhidrid
23:47.37vladovghave 60% evriting luks good and after restart it shows 20%
23:48.04*** join/#maemo ShellEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil)
23:48.25vladovgand some other things tipikal for metalhidrid batteris
23:48.41vladovglike memori efekt
23:48.59AStormno, the battery is not NiMH
23:49.08vladovgai now thet
23:49.11AStormit's Li-Poly - and the boot eats a lot of battery
23:49.20vladovgbut is actink like it is
23:49.31MrGooseGood God! is that english?
23:49.38vladovgay now thet but 40%
23:49.39vladovg?
23:49.44AStormMrGoose: ever read Piter from UserFriendly? ;P
23:49.49vladovgno
23:49.59AStormvladovg: the gauge is not that precise either
23:49.59vladovgaim sorri for may bad english
23:50.27AStormit has no memory effect, so just charge it and it should be fine
23:50.45vladovgthet is hapening ow lik
23:50.53vladovgay iven reflash it
23:51.07AStormvladovg: you shouldn't turn off the device
23:51.16AStormit's more efficient to just let it alone and on
23:51.18vladovgand instal Advencet Power Setting applet
23:52.13AStormand yes, the boot can eat a lot of battery power
23:52.31AStormmaybe even 2 hours of time
23:52.39*** join/#maemo fiferboy (n=quassel@dhcp-0-13-10-77-bf-c5.cpe.mountaincable.net)
23:53.16vladovgay reboot it bikos its indikeits olmost fool batteri in status bar bat on klik of the advencet power tools shows 55%
23:53.44*** join/#maemo fiferboy (n=quassel@dhcp-0-13-10-77-bf-c5.cpe.mountaincable.net)
23:54.02AStormvladovg: now that's weird
23:54.08vladovgay now thet the boot proces is power consumig but is thet normal
23:54.16vladovgto teik thet mach
23:54.18AStormmight be a damaged battery, for example by heat
23:54.38*** part/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)
23:54.40vladovgits olmost brnad new device
23:54.58AStormeven more troubling - hmmh
23:55.08AStormwhat does the normal battery meter say?
23:55.43vladovgsame thing thet is wai ay instal advencet power applet
23:56.00AStormit should say in hours
23:56.43AStormthe device, when fully charged, should last 9 hours without wifi, 5 hours with wifi
23:57.56vladovgyes
23:58.15vladovgopereiting time is guud
23:58.21*** join/#maemo blassey (n=blassey@c-71-232-22-29.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
23:58.33vladovgbut indicitations is bad
23:58.37AStormso it's the A.P.S. bug
23:58.51AStormif the original battery application shows the right time
23:58.54vladovgand the original
23:58.55vladovg?
23:59.02vladovgis bad too
23:59.03vladovg?
23:59.09AStormno, it should work
23:59.48vladovgreflashet to resolf the issiu

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