IRC log for #maemo on 20090903

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03:08.26*** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo | N900 and Maemo 5 announced @ http://maemo.nokia.com | http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Maemo Summit 2009: Call for Content Now Open! -> http://tinyurl.com/mvbcdy | Maemo Summit 2009: Registration now open - http://tinyurl.com/lumhbk | Maemo 5 will not be available for 770/n8x0/iPhone
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03:30.13comhackI installed the boot menu and it goes super quick to the first entry. Does anyone know how to slow it down any>
03:30.22Luke-Jredit the config?
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03:30.40comhackyeah the bootconf but where is it
03:30.47comhackslocate is not available
03:30.49Luke-Jr/mnt/initfs
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03:30.58comhackthanks
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03:54.07GAN800Engadget :roll:
03:54.20GAN800http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/02/nokia-x6-confirmed-to-sport-a-capacitive-display-we-can-finally/
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04:08.47bbigrasI just compiled a Qt apps with the fremantle sdk. It seems I can't use the keyboard with this apps Is there a onscreen keyboard or do you guys know if I need to do something special to make it work?
04:09.04aspectmy girlfriend prefers resistive .. can't use nails on capacitative :(
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04:19.13kirmasay that in apple store and you're offered a thinly veiled insult as customer service
04:22.09kirmaobserves that in data contracts, cartel mentality is going strong in .fi
04:23.10kirmaone and two megabit 3G data deals are the same price between all operators almost to the single cent on all operators, and last time they dropped prices, *all* of them halved them at the same time
04:23.15kirmaand that's now years ago.
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04:24.45kirmaI pay 20 euros for my home 100/10 fixed connection... and the same for one megabit mobile connection. wouldn't care to pay thirty euros for two, when that's mostly theoretically reachable in practice...
04:25.47Proteousin the US they don't meter your 3g data speeds, they just charge you 5 times as much as everywhere else
04:26.40kirmaI'm just slightly surprised how little local telecom and competition regulation authorities seem to care about pricing that seems *so* much like a cartel
04:27.36kirmaI suppose there's more variation on megabytes-per-month and per-data-day billing options, but those are really not so affordable for power users.
04:29.07oilinkiin thailand we have time based billing for mobile data. it's a bit more understandable for the end users
04:29.27kirmaI suppose it's best to wait until around christmas... if N900 really catches on, the competition should kick in again
04:29.44oilinkiabout 4 euros/20 hours/month
04:30.10oilinkibut all we have is EDGE (220kbps downling)
04:30.21kirmaand even operators with good HSPA coverage start offering over 2M connections, not only those that nowhere can actually deliver the promise.
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04:31.06ProteousI wish I could set my n97 apps to selectivly use edge or 3g
04:31.33Proteousso I could set my always connected app to use edge but the browsers and other apps to use the faster more power hungry connection
04:31.39kirmatechnology-based billing?
04:32.09Proteouskirma, that's pretty much how it is here
04:32.20kirmayou have to note that interesting things would be needed that to work exactly that way when multiple apps with different priorities would be running at the same time
04:32.45Proteousif the carrier does a scan and finds you have a "smartphone" but aren't paying the premium for the smartphone data plan they will make you switch
04:33.18Proteouskirma, I'm pretty sure that edge and 3g can be passing data at the same time
04:33.22Proteousbut maybe not
04:34.27kirmaI have gripes towards .fi operators and european data roaming, but that doesn't compare to the disgust I feel for the situation in US market (and how customers think they're on the most advanced market...)
04:34.51oilinkikirma: is the 3g/hsdpa good in Finland? What I understood the coverage is very limited?
04:35.25kirmait's limited. that part doesn't matter so much to me, since I live only 10 km form Helsinki center...
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04:48.06Proteousoof
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05:14.03Stskeepsyawns
05:14.28Luke-JrStskeeps: slonopotamus is diffing diffs!
05:15.06Myrtti*yawn*²
05:15.10Stskeepsanc?
05:15.14Stskeepsand?
05:15.27Stskeepspasses tea for Myrtti
05:17.35Proteouspasses a kidney stone for Stskeeps
05:17.44bbigrassomeone here has write access to http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_2_sdk_installation/ ?
05:17.52ProteousI hope you kinow how painful it was
05:19.11comhack<PROTECTED>
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05:21.27StskeepsProteous: thank you for the sacrifice
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06:12.48aSIMULAtorlol netsplit
06:12.51aSIMULAtorhaven't seen one of those in ages
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06:17.26Corsacfreenode kind-of sucks :)
06:18.38MaceN8x0haha
06:18.49MaceN8x0everything kind of sucks
06:19.56MaceN8x0i think most places use freenode due to its moderation
06:22.17johnxaSIMULAtor, then you don't hang around freenode enough :D
06:24.25aSIMULAtoryeah i don't hang around freenode...well...except since yesterday and idling here
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06:42.35kirmawonders everybody and their dog is queueing to nokia flagship store now
06:42.48kirmagoing to check out.
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06:46.54Stskeepsmorning danielwilms
06:47.13danielwilmsmorning Stskeeps :)
06:47.16JaffaMorning, all
06:47.37Myrttifucking stupid emacs
06:47.44Myrttistupid sed and awk
06:47.53Stskeepscurses the water-vacuum cleaner
06:47.57JaffaShadowJK: Can you update the wiki page with that info about USB & charging, please? http://wiki.maemo.org/NokiaWorld_2009_QA
06:50.15MaceN8x0water vaccum cleaner?
06:50.22MaceN8x0like a shop vac?
06:50.33Stskeepslike for cleaning a carpet
06:50.53bulfaiterI don't know if it's too late to ask (or if it's been already answered): will it be possible to sync the n900 with OS X? (via ovi suite, or iSync)
06:51.26StskeepsMaceN8x0: finishing up our old apartment so
06:51.44johnxbulfaiter, too early to ask I think
06:51.47MaceN8x0oh
06:51.55johnxbulfaiter, can mac os x sync to ovi?
06:53.01bulfaiterjohnx: I think the new ovi suite (Beta) will have a os x version
06:53.28bulfaiterbut don't know how it'll integrate with ical, contacts and all that
06:54.05johnxand I think I heard about the N900 syncing to Ovi
06:54.21johnxsooo, I'd give it a firm "probably"
06:54.24johnxbut don't pull the trigger until you see someone else actually using it
06:54.54johnxI mean: the N800 had a camera and had skype, so you'd think video chat on skype would be inevitable
06:55.37bulfaiterhehe
06:56.42kulveanybody familiar with tracker?
06:57.27kulvehow do I use e.g. tracker-meta-folder?
06:59.49kulveor how do I ask tracker to show me the tags of an MP3?
07:00.32Stskeepsheh, danish newspaper describing n900: a superphone for real men
07:01.35MaceN8x0lol
07:01.49Stskeepsi'm inclined to agree
07:02.12MaceN8x0Stskeeps, showing a mountain climber talking on it while fighting off wolves with a knife?
07:02.57johnxs/knife/n900/
07:03.04johnxwith the flip out laser sword, and flame thrower ... they dropped those? aaaah
07:03.18johnxjust trust me: the development units had all that and it was *awesome*
07:03.46MaceN8x0hahahaha
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07:04.50MaceN8x0as long as it has a compass
07:04.50MaceN8x0;)
07:05.28johnxyup, and I can live with just the blow gun and pipe wrench
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07:05.45StskeepsMaceN8x0: with friggen lasers!
07:06.03timsamoffflies home today. Jaffa is the point-man for today's Nokia World coverage.
07:06.39MaceN8x0no, the compass is projected when held perpendicular to the ground by its holographic 3D imaging system
07:06.54johnxlaser compass burns down trees and structures until you can see the north star
07:07.02MaceN8x0along with a holographic map
07:07.02Stskeepstimsamoff: hope it was enjoyable
07:07.34timsamoffstskeeps: Yes. Thanks!
07:07.43MaceN8x0the manly phone
07:08.04MaceN8x0maybe it can keep .05 oz of aftershave in it
07:08.53johnxor it's actually just a flask shaped like a phone: hence why it's so thick
07:09.45MaceN8x0im still a little disappointed in that nokiaworld thing
07:10.00MaceN8x0with its 10 sec of n900 video
07:10.33MaceN8x0nokia needs to drop that overpriced shitbook
07:10.55johnxeh, it'll drop itself if it doesn't sell: and if it does then more power to them
07:10.59MaceN8x02x the $ for an aspire1 with a nokia logo on it?
07:11.35MaceN8x0x86 too? they should be ashamed
07:11.39johnxwhat was the most grating was the last guy trying to sound "with it" while talking about social networking
07:11.52MaceN8x0hahaha
07:11.57adeuspay 3x and soon you might get an apple logo on it :)
07:12.14MaceN8x0adeus, agreed
07:12.35MaceN8x0when he said "atom" i wanted to choke him out
07:13.06MaceN8x0wish i was telekenitic and could cut off the blood to his brain
07:13.17Luke-JrMaceN8x0: hey, did you hear about Sun/Oracle's new SPARC phone?
07:13.28MaceN8x0really?
07:13.36Luke-Jrno, just pulling your leg
07:13.47MaceN8x0probably runs gnome :-P
07:14.03MaceN8x0i hate gnome
07:14.36kirmahmmh
07:14.45MaceN8x0spark in a phone hehe
07:15.07kirman900 is small... too small, when I'm used to e90
07:15.11kirmajust tried
07:15.12MaceN8x0is it a suitcase phone with nothing but a car battery in the case
07:15.29MaceN8x0not the same size as an n810?
07:15.44johnxdidn't they make sparc "laptop" at some point
07:15.50johnxI think there was an alpha laptop too
07:16.26MaceN8x0dunno
07:16.31MaceN8x0sounds neat tho
07:16.34Luke-Jrthere's a Loongson laptop
07:16.40Luke-Jrand a Cell laptop
07:16.47MaceN8x0then again so did the dragon laptop
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07:17.04MaceN8x0Luke-Jr, yeah, heard the loongsoon sucked
07:17.20MaceN8x0was slow as shit
07:17.25MaceN8x0and hot
07:17.29MaceN8x0real real hot
07:17.30Luke-JrMaceN8x0: dragons are big, wtf do you expect?
07:17.47Luke-Jrif they weren't big, they'd merely be lizards
07:17.49johnxdoes not want a dragon anywhere near his lap
07:18.02johnxthey seem awfully bitey
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07:18.20Stskeepsdoesn't want x86 heat either.
07:18.37MaceN8x0johnx, then dont get a loongsoon
07:18.57MaceN8x0they captured the dragonfire and shoved it into a laptop
07:19.13MaceN8x0Stskeeps, i agree
07:19.22Luke-Jrhow about a CRIS laptop?
07:19.22MaceN8x0my aspire1 gets real hot
07:19.47MaceN8x0the loongsoon looked promising
07:19.52MaceN8x0too bad it sucks
07:20.38kirmahttp://www.cs.hut.fi/~kirma/n900-nordic.jpg ... the nordic keyboard layout
07:21.27X-Fadekirma: Nice arrow keys :(
07:21.35Luke-Jrseriously, though, I wonder how a CRIS handheld would be
07:22.08kirmawelll...
07:22.29X-Fadekirma: You guys should just type plain ascii ;)
07:23.10johnxwow...those arrow keys are like what would happen if you tried to squish an Apple ][ keyboard
07:24.04kirmaI might question the wide need for up/down though
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07:24.55X-Fadekirma: Gaming and scrolling.
07:25.03X-Fadekirma: And usefull in xterm ;)
07:25.17kirmavery mainstream :I
07:26.00kirmascrolling is mainly finger thing... and might also be orientation thing, largelwy so on games anyway
07:27.01X-Fadekirma: accelerators can help with that a bit.
07:27.06adeusfor a game I would just map the surrounding keys accordingly
07:27.28X-Fadeadeus: True, you don't look at the keys anyway.
07:28.30adeusif you do, you probably suck at the game anyway :)
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07:30.16johnxthough wasd lines up beautifully and is well known
07:30.24johnxor w a d x
07:30.59adeusIv'e never used wsad for fps games
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07:31.27adeusI always map them around j
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07:31.33X-Fadeadeus: Well I did, right hand for mouse.
07:31.44qolewhat ho! What news upon the Rialto?
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07:34.33qoleCrickets: chirp, chirp
07:35.03qoleDay 2 of Nokia World and nothing to report?
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07:36.57X-FadeN810 with 3D display? :)
07:37.58RST38hX-Fade: tactile, with individually inflatable pixels.
07:38.15X-FadeRST38h: No, this one is real.
07:38.15RST38hX-Fade: actual image reproduction optional.
07:38.31X-Fadehttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/02/nokias-3d-n810-internet-tablet-caught-on-blurrycam/
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07:39.31RST38hX-Fade: I seem to remember this one making rounds before
07:40.23RST38hX-Fade: If it is the display that uses "ridges" to split image into left/right eyes, I would not get excited too much
07:41.08Myrttidumdidumdidum
07:41.22RST38hmoos at Myrtti
07:43.47X-Fadeqole: I guess the comments issue you reported was because of cache.
07:46.07Whizkirma, that finnish keyboard is f**ng ugly. I think I'm going for the international version because of that..
07:47.13Myrttiwhat Finnish keyboard, where
07:47.23Myrttichecks
07:47.33MyrttiWOHEY!
07:47.40Myrttiit comes with a Finnish keyboard \o/
07:47.59X-FadeMyrtti: Well, scandinavian.. ;)
07:48.00fragmentWhiz: o7
07:48.04WhizMyrtti, "whee we got äöå but we lost arrow keys"
07:48.09Whizfragment, yello..
07:48.25MyrttiWhiz: hm
07:49.02WhizMyrtti, well compare the bottom right corner of the keyboard on http://maemo.nokia.com/images/uploads/device1.jpg and http://www.cs.hut.fi/~kirma/n900-nordic.jpg :)
07:49.16Whizno dpad + f**d up arrow keys :D
07:49.28MyrttiWhiz: as I said, hm.
07:49.56Whiz:D ah ok.. misinterpred it as "hmm, dont understand"
07:50.01Captain_PicardWhiz: =))
07:50.06Captain_PicardWhiz: you were in helsinki?
07:50.13WhizCaptain_Picard, yep
07:50.15aquatixMyrtti: like nordic people need arrows ;)
07:51.26Captain_Picardi wanted arrows ;(
07:51.30Captain_Picardhow can i play !!?!
07:51.33Captain_Picardwithout arrow keys
07:51.39RST38hwill offer US n900, once they appear, to finns, with a slight markup =)
07:51.39aquatixhm
07:51.46Whizand why they kept left<>right arrows and not up<>down
07:51.48aquatixCaptain_Picard: tilt sensors? ;)
07:52.07RST38hWhiz: They felt nostalgic about Sony Ericcsson UIQ devices?
07:52.08johnxWhiz, look at the "fn+" for the arrow keys, left and right are there :)
07:52.23aquatixRST38h: at least those had a scroll wheel
07:52.27johnxRST38h, nah, nostalgic for the Apple ][ handheld that never happened
07:52.30RST38hnot all of them
07:52.31qoleX-Fade, shortly after I reported it, everything was fine. I assumed you had fixed itl.
07:52.36Captain_Picardrofl
07:52.39Captain_PicardFN keys arrows
07:52.43Captain_Picardthat sucks
07:52.49RST38hjohnx: Not valid unless they include 6502.
07:53.02X-Fadeqole: No, that was probably the cache. I was asleep then ;)
07:53.03WhizI've been really found of other tablet versions because it's been so easy to browse a website with just Dpad and no need for touchscreen
07:53.17johnxRST38h, you'll settle for emulated I expect?
07:53.40johnxWhiz, and yet they make the d-pad worse in every revision
07:53.48RST38hjohnx: Of course not, they are hardware guys, they are supposed to include a real 6502, even as a decoration =)
07:53.53johnxthey had to keep it up with the N900
07:54.14Captain_Picardhow am i suppoused to play without dpad or good arrows .(
07:54.20Captain_Picardtilt sensor is not an option
07:54.26johnxRST38h, heh, yeah, I suppose that's the least they could do to apologize for their hatred of directional buttons
07:54.32johnxCaptain_Picard, w a s d
07:54.39johnxor: key bindings
07:54.46Captain_Picardjohnx: thats strafing :p
07:54.51Captain_Picarda d
07:54.57till-i don't understand why they didn't put the umlauts on fn
07:54.58johnxthis is less of a problem in reality then people are actually making it out to be
07:55.07Captain_Picardis it possible to use a bluetooth mouse
07:55.10Captain_Picardwith the n900?
07:55.12till-as they are not used very often
07:55.15RST38hjohnx,Whiz,Captain,aquatix: Want the dpad? Go here and flashmob this proposal: http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/add_directional_buttons_to_the_back_of_device/
07:55.27RST38hMake Quim know.
07:55.45X-FadeRST38h: Quim doesn't have anything to do with hardware.
07:56.02X-FadeRST38h: Check his sig..
07:56.14RST38hX-Fade: Well, then this has to be elevated all the way to whoever has sway on hardware design
07:56.16johnxRST38h, AFAICT maemo software got handed this design from "maemo" hardware and were told: "here. run with it."
07:56.43RST38hjohnx: Then this has to be elevated to the right person
07:56.53johnxand I think you know as well as anyone that it's a little late for a hardware change
07:56.56johnxthis hardware was pretty close to final circa june or so if not a lot earlier
07:56.59RST38hjohnx: Jaaksi or whoever is responsible for crippling the buttons
07:57.01aquatixRST38h: hm, the back?
07:57.22RST38haquatix: Well, the front is taken by the screen, placing them at the keyboard is goign to be cumbersome
07:57.37RST38haquatix: The back looks like the only comfortable place for them
07:57.44Mekjust create a custom battery cover that has those buttons? :)
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07:58.01aquatixRST38h: it's just a new-ish concept for me
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07:58.46kirmaI still think that reduction of buttons is really partly a method to make software developers think of the user experience and interfaces from average phone user perspective, instead of making it too easy to transfer "linux habits" to the platform and alienate majority of mass market from it
07:58.53johnxcan't imagine a non wrist-destroying way to put those buttons on the back
07:59.03kirmacommunicator keyboard would be more troubling than good in that perspective
07:59.18kirmaalthough certainly that's not the only/primary reason for the keyboard...
07:59.50kirmaphone software that relies on up/down keys on phone that has touchscreen and orientation sensor is plainly bad usability
08:00.06RST38hkirma: Method, shmethod, the result is the gaming use case becoming roadkill
08:00.29RST38hjohnx: Imagine holding tablet like you would hold a digital camera
08:00.40RST38hjohnx: Where your right hand fingers would be?
08:00.43X-FadeIt is a big debate if you want to support legacy games or now. You see it with PS3 too, they stopped supporting PS2 games.
08:00.55X-FadeSome people hate that, other people don't care.
08:00.55RST38hX-Fade: We are not talking legacy games
08:01.14RST38hX-Fade: We are talking ANY game, past, present or future, requiring precise directional control
08:01.29X-FadeRST38h: Well new games can be designed around certain features, old games can't.
08:01.31RST38hX-Fade: This covers whole game genres, like platform games
08:01.39X-FadeIt is an option at least.
08:01.43RST38hX-Fade: No they can't
08:02.14RST38hX-Fade: If you provided some OTHER method for precise control, they the new games could be designed to use it
08:02.51RST38hX-Fade: But there is no any other method. Accelerator based control cannot be made precise. touchscreen based control does not provide tactile feedback to the user and obscures the image
08:03.00qoleThe arrow keys on the N900 are better than the D-Pad on the N800
08:03.16RST38hqole: Except you do not get all 4 on every keyboard :)
08:03.31X-FadeRST38h: Well you have quite some keys on the keyboard left, so not a problem yet ;)
08:03.50johnxgotta go with X-Fade on this one
08:03.52qoleRST38h, Well, then you all got to get the keyboard that has all four.
08:04.03RST38hX-Fade: See, rather than go into all these deeply conceptual philosophical discussions about new paradigms of gaming, why not just provide a freaking dpad? :)
08:04.12johnxI counted at least 24 or so keys on the keyboard
08:04.24qoleRST38h, DPads are so 1998
08:04.27RST38hqole: Yea, let us buy them in US and resell them to these poor Finns ;)
08:04.59RST38hqole: Your toilet bowl is so XIX century...But you still hmmm use it, don't you?
08:05.20johnxRST38h, you've just opened up a dangerous topic :)
08:05.34aquatixRST38h: otoh, directional buttons on the backside can't be pressed by the thumbs, which are the usual digits used for this
08:05.55RST38hjohnx: well, I did not mention vim this time =)
08:05.58aquatixnot sure whether that matters, might even help against straining thumbs too much :)
08:05.58qoleRST38h, I sh*t in a hole when I'm backpacking in the mountains
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08:06.17johnxRST38h, heh, guess that's why I'm not cranky: I have my vim arrow keys
08:06.18X-Fadeqole: too much information..
08:06.30johnxmaybe this is the break vim needs to get really popular among tablet users :>
08:06.36qoleI wasn't the one who introduced the toilet to the conversation
08:06.50X-Fadeqole: But you one-upped it ;)
08:06.53RST38hqole: I do not want to shit in the hole for my whole life, just because some eggheaded suit said that the toilets are so 1998
08:07.19RST38hmentioned vim now. RUn FOR THE HILLS!
08:07.29qoleOh sorry, this was a metaphor. For what again?
08:07.33johnxand seriously I can't figure out how to hold my hands to make it comfortable to press something d-pad shaped with my fingers on what would be the backside of a tablet
08:07.43MyrttiEMAACCSSS
08:07.51johnxhave you tried prototyping it with some raised bumps or something?
08:08.01qoleGet hold of an N900. Try the arrow keys. You'll be fine.
08:08.20qoleGet hold of an N900. Try the arrow keys. You'll be fine.
08:08.20RST38hjohnx: Not yet, frankly I do not believe this activity will produce any result from nokia
08:08.32qoleWhoa. Double post.
08:08.51RST38hqole: Go to t.m.o, read people from non-American countries bitching about arrow keys missing.
08:09.05qoleI'm not from the US either
08:09.06johnxRST38h, yeah, also: I did try out the way to hold my hands for that: that's gonna be some serious wrist damage after ~30 minutes I think
08:09.09Stskeepsjust remap them in your game. end of story.
08:09.15RST38hqole: Canada applies.
08:09.22qoleI used a device from Finland ;-)
08:09.30RST38hqole: And it had all four arrows?
08:09.41qoleAbsoshmutely
08:09.50RST38hqole: Not the final device then
08:09.56qoleBottom right hand corner
08:10.17jaskawell, one can always remap so massive whining is unnecessary
08:10.22qoleYou've seen the final device??!
08:10.29RST38hqole: A moment
08:10.39johnxqole, scroll up to the link :)
08:10.40RST38hqole <-- been out of the loop apparently
08:11.07qoleThe less-than-final device that I saw had all the arrow keys
08:11.12Mekthe spanish version I played with some months ago had the only two buttons for arrows, the english prototypes I've played with did had the 4 buttons...
08:11.16qoleWhy would they take the arrow keys away
08:11.29jaskato allow for silly accented chars/umlauts
08:11.30RST38hqole: Because they apparently hate the arrow keys
08:11.47X-Fadeqole: You saw an international device, those have the arrow keys.
08:11.55RST38hqole: As you initially said "dpad is so 1998"
08:12.03qoleRST38h, damn you, this is your fault.
08:12.04Stskeepsremap.. we have XKB for a reason
08:12.11johnxqole, I blame him too
08:12.14RST38hqole: Yea, I am evil
08:12.29RST38hswallows a lab mouse alive
08:12.32johnxRST38h, gimme back my arrows ya darn Ruskie!
08:12.39qoleRST38h, everything was fine until you came along and took away our arrow keys
08:12.44jaskaand return karelia while youre at it!
08:12.51RST38hjohnx: Blame the finns, I have not seen the cyrillic keyboard yet
08:13.01qoleRST38h, and tell us where Elvis is hiding
08:13.29johnxbrainstorm: go to RST38h's house and get our arrow keys back!
08:13.34RST38hjaska: Only if you promise to get rid of the mosquitoes
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08:13.48KhertanHello everybody !
08:14.03jaskacould always move the mosquitoes into lappland... plenty there
08:14.09qoleKhertan, have you seen the missing arrow keys?
08:14.26RST38hjaska: Mosquitoes magically disappear once the train crosses the border into .fi
08:14.30Khertanthe missing arrow keys ?
08:14.30Khertangnié ?
08:14.34jaskastrange
08:14.42RST38hjaska: The nature of this phenomenon is unknown
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08:15.23qoleKhertan, we think RS38h has absconded with arrow keys from the final N900 device.
08:15.27jaskaperhaps the cell tower density is higher on this side, or the blood of finns tastes like shit
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08:16.54suihkulokkiRST38h: you should try travelling the northern parts of .fi if you think we are mosquito-free :P
08:16.59qoleAll About Symbian tweets, "Winner Apps on Map in Mobile Innovators was Primordial Ground Guidance. Navigating when no roads. Intelligent routing."
08:17.00johnxqole, he's been embezzling them a little at a time
08:17.10johnxthat's why there's only two on some devices
08:17.16RST38hsuihkulokki: Oh I am sure you have got some
08:19.38*** join/#maemo eocanha (n=eocanha@63.227.117.91.static.mundo-r.com)
08:20.53Captain_Picardthere are plenty victims on the russian side for the mosquitoes
08:21.02RST38hnot in karelia
08:21.05Captain_Picardwe use OFF :P
08:21.12qoleWell, if there's nothing exciting Maemo-related at Nokia World 2009 so far, I'm going to bed and I'll find out what's up tomorrow morning.
08:21.13Captain_Picardand RAID
08:21.33suihkulokkiRST38h: it's not just some.. there are gazzillions.. try karhunkierros trail for the fun :)
08:21.50qoleI keep thinking there'll be another shoe to drop at Nokia World and I don't want to be sleeping when it happens
08:22.35suihkulokkiback to the lost arrow keys and the d-pads
08:22.59RST38hsuihkulokki: I grew up in Ural, so I know what you mean =)
08:23.17suihkulokkiwhile I hate loosing them, honestly the n800/n810 d-pad were too crappy to be used for any serious gaming
08:23.31RST38htrue
08:23.36RST38hn97 too btw
08:24.04kirmaI really wonder how I get used to size of N900. and the thing is that it's *too small* :)
08:24.25kirmaI wonder what kind of hands those size/thickness appl... fanatics have
08:24.46RST38hkirma: they use tongue
08:25.04Corsackirma: yeah, I wonder if it wont be too small and too thick
08:25.12RST38happle ones definitely use tongue
08:25.13Corsacbut it really *need* to come out soon
08:25.26Corsacbecause I dreamed I had an n900 this night
08:25.27qolesuihkulokki: Yes! The NIT's D-Pads were useless.
08:25.29kirmaE70 and E90 have been great fit for my hands, but at flagship store I felt all the time that if I try to hold N900 in a way that I can achieve things nicely, it's going to slip to the floor between my fingers :)
08:25.30Corsac…
08:25.51johnxqole, not only that but got worse in every iteration
08:25.54RST38hkirma: same with n810 really
08:25.55johnxthat's what makes me insane
08:26.14qoleMy friend told me that the N900's screen is so beautiful that he wanted to lick it. A few beers later, he did. :-P
08:26.25X-Fadekirma: drill a hole in the casing and attach to lanyard? :)
08:26.52suihkulokkiwe should put some tiny amounts of lsd on the touchscreen
08:26.56kirmawell. I don't have gigantic hands, but certainly at almost two meters tall, not very delicate oriental or southern european pygmy hands either. N810 felt quite ok to me... ;>
08:26.58jaskalol
08:27.29kirmaqole: and then the touchscreen functionality died? ;)
08:27.42kirmadid he also try if it fits to a pint?
08:28.08kirmait has occured several times that friends have demonstrated phones... "but look, it's still too big to fit into a pint!"
08:28.13kirma*blup*
08:28.22qoleThe N900's screen makes the iPhone's screen look like a GameBoy. Seriously. http://maemo.org/community/council/the_n900_from_a_community_perspective/
08:28.22suihkulokkinow that we have so many finns here, let me remind you all to come to free thursday on next week ;)
08:28.39kirmasuihkulokki: hmm hmm?
08:28.50RST38hqole: Same can be said about n810 screen really
08:29.12qoleImagine the N810's screen compressed to the size of an iPhone screen.
08:29.30qoleSPECTACULAR DPI
08:29.30RST38hqole: I would rather keep it the original size though :)
08:29.38kirmaopen source gathering thing that was once in angleterre? only thing I associate now...
08:29.48RST38hNot much use for this dpi, when reading :(
08:29.48suihkulokkikirma: http://free-thursday.pieni.net/
08:29.55qoleRST38h, since it is the same resolution, just hold it closer to your face
08:30.02RST38hhmmm
08:30.17*** join/#maemo lool (n=lool@debian/developer/lool)
08:30.25RST38htrue, although that would be too close =(
08:30.31*** join/#maemo sergio (n=sergio@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com)
08:30.49kirmasuihkulokki: hmmmmmm.
08:30.53Stskeepsyou want to be able to lick the lsd off your n900 anyway
08:31.08kirmaI thought "free" was literally... "free beer" of course :)
08:31.23suihkulokkino free beer.. just free speech =)
08:32.04qoleWell, I'm finished my beer for the night, and since there's nothing new Maemo related, I'm going to bed.
08:32.10Khertansomeone receive mail about summit sponsorship ?
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08:32.36StskeepsKhertan: not yet
08:33.47qoleKhertan, I hope you receive more mails than that.
08:34.05qoleGood night all
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08:35.05Khertanhttp://maemo.org/community/council/maemo_summit_2009-sponsorship_window_ends_september_9th/
08:35.31KhertanMany of the requests have already been processed and some of you will already have received emails indicating your sponsorship status.
08:35.44Captain_PicardOne humourous note; opening and closing apps is accompanied by such human-sounding “whshhht” and “fshhhht” sounds that people look at you, wondering why you're making those funny noises with your mouth.
08:38.09Khertanthis is why i ask
08:38.35Khertan[10:33] <qole> Khertan, I hope you receive more mails than that. <<< yeah many for blue pills ...
08:39.26Corsacwhat about red pills?
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08:41.42StskeepsKhertan: yeah that one wonders me a bit too
08:43.13X-FadeStskeeps: Afaik, only rejections have been sent out.
08:43.22Proteouswhy why why does the LG Chocolate display all the text in comic sans
08:43.24Proteouslike wtf
08:43.25Proteouslol
08:44.38jaskacomic sans? design by satan(tm)
08:44.47Proteousthat typeface needs to die
08:44.54Proteouspreferable a slow painfull death
08:45.26RST38hlikes Comic
08:45.38RST38hComic is perfect for application names in About boxes
08:45.38Proteousbeats RST38h senseless
08:46.05Proteousit really only has one application, text bubbles in a comic
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08:46.11RST38hchanges Proteous' window titles to Comic
08:46.18Proteousdies a little
08:46.26X-FadeComic ranks up there with Wordart.
08:46.32RST38hProteous: Ironically, no. Comic is too large for text bubbles
08:46.34StskeepsX-Fade: ah
08:46.52RST38hProteous: And when you shrink it to necessary size, the letters look squished
08:47.06X-FadeStskeeps: I see now 'accepted' fields set in the db yet at least.
08:47.11Proteousit really is amazing isn't it
08:47.12RST38h(in other words, it needs more pixels than a normal font would)
08:47.28Khertanhum ... keyboard and screen doesn't unlock anymore when opening keyboard
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08:49.35Stskeepswb lardman_
08:49.57lardman|homehi Stskeeps
08:50.16lardman|homeanything exciting going on?
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08:51.35lardman|homederf: ping
08:51.42derflardman|home: Pong.
08:52.04RST38hheya lardman, derf, zap
08:52.22lardman|homehi RST38h
08:52.32lardman|homederf: is your QR code in zbar working?
08:52.44lardman|homederf: it's not in the 0.9 release of a few days ago
08:52.50derfYes, though I think it's still on a branch.
08:54.07lardman|homeok, I'll try grabbing the svn and building from that
08:54.22derfhg clone http://zbar.hg.sourceforge.net:8000/hgroot/zbar zbar-qr
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08:54.34derfcd zbar-qr
08:54.43derfhg update qr
08:54.46lardman|homeok cool, what did you base it on?
08:54.56lardman|homei.e. which version of zbar
08:55.18derfWhatever was current back in early July.
08:55.30lardman|homeok, 0.8 iirc
08:55.45Khertansomeone know where i can found internal picture of the n810 ?
08:55.52derfAnd spadix is the one really doing all the work.
08:56.06lardman|homespadix is Rob?
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08:56.51derfJeff Brown I think?
08:57.09lardman|homeah, that might be the one - just from looking at the site yesterday
08:57.11lardman|homeok cheers
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08:57.43derfI saw you playing with pyGTK last night and hoped that's what you were working on.
08:57.57StskeepsKhertan: google n810 schematics i think
08:58.06lardman|homeyep, I have the code pretty much working under python now
08:58.12lardman|homeat least the gui is now up
08:58.37lardman|homehave to trim the string containing the image data to get rid of the UV planes, and then see if zbar will accept it
08:59.25Khertanthx Stskeeps
09:00.09lardman|homederf: also want to add in datamatrix decoding, as we see those quite often over here
09:01.17X-Fadelardman|home: Do you also estimate the angle and try to compensate for that?
09:01.29lardman|homeno, I've left the decoding to the library
09:01.37derfYeah, we talked about that a bit, but it's just talk at this point.
09:01.39lardman|homebut the libs have to do that yes
09:01.47lardman|homeoh, skew you mean then?
09:02.00lardman|homenot normal to the surface, that sort of thing?
09:02.23X-Fadelardman|home: no, camera not at 90 degrees.
09:02.31lardman|homeyeah, not normal
09:02.38X-FadeEhm, not parallel ;)
09:03.00derfX-Fade: For the QR codes, yes, I do.
09:03.05lardman|homeinteresting, but unfortunately I need a working app to catalog my books (otherwise I'd gladly fiddle with algorithmic code rather than damned GUIs! ;))
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09:03.10X-Fadederf: Nice.
09:03.24derfIn fixed-point, no less.
09:03.45derfIt's actually what most of the code is for. Doing the decoding itself is easy.
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09:04.08lardman|homeI just noticed that zbar is fixed point, so removed the vfp build stuff I'd troubled myself to add in
09:06.24derfYeah, I picked it because he'd written the software exactly like I would've written it if I had the time.
09:07.57lardman|homeRight, zbar 0.9 is now available + MUD script
09:08.09lardman|homehttp://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/temp
09:08.17lardman|homewill pull the svn code and try building that now
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09:09.40Khertanhum ... no i understand what is this things ...
09:10.00Khertanthe small contactor when opening keyboard is no more connected ... :(
09:11.15timeless_mbpjohnx: not from maemo hardware
09:11.24timeless_mbpthe hardware came from a group outside of maemo
09:11.28lardman|homederf: which package is hg in? Mercurial?
09:11.38timeless_mbpat some future time maemo devices will actually have hardware design
09:11.49timeless_mbpbut sadly, that's still some time off
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09:12.03derflardman|home: It is Mercurial, yes. I have no idea what package that corresponds to on whatever distro you're using.
09:12.12lardman|homeubuntu so the same
09:12.30timeless_mbptill-: as for making the umlauts available from fn
09:12.46timeless_mbpi met a Finn for lunch earlier this week
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09:12.53Captain_PicardI WANT ARROW KEYS
09:13.04timeless_mbphis first question after using my en key layout was "where are the :a, :o, and 0a keys"
09:13.12timeless_mbpCaptain_Picard: so use the en keyboard layout
09:13.26timeless_mbp(and buy / demand that your seller give you the en keymap)
09:13.29julianolivertimeless_mbp: hehe. they have an amazing alphabet.
09:13.29till-yeah because thats missing
09:13.39julianoliverlanguage is almost phonetic also
09:13.44till-*they're
09:13.56timeless_mbptill-: i suggested he turn on secondary dictionary language (suomi)
09:14.05timeless_mbpand try using just the en keymap
09:14.12till-but at least in german i think the arrows are more important than umlauts
09:14.23timeless_mbpafter the first fn thing to pull up an :a he started getting vaguely reasonable results
09:14.29timeless_mbpand i'm pretty sure he'll survive
09:14.45timeless_mbptill-: so the germans can do the same: use the en keymap
09:14.50till-to be honest i hardly ever use the dpad on my n800
09:14.59timeless_mbpand again, they can demand that their reseller provide the en keymap
09:15.00till-maybe for games
09:15.15ShadowJK"normal" people would be "outraged" over missing letters, but the geeks probably care less and cry over missing pipe
09:15.18timeless_mbpfeedback from sales to whatever that people in target countries don't actually like the standard format
09:15.35timeless_mbpShadowJK: pipe's actually fairly reachable using Sym
09:15.49timeless_mbpfeedback ... can result in changes to design planning
09:16.02till-i think i may use xmodmap and some stickers :)
09:16.15timeless_mbpthe problem is that the ui designers were told "you must prioritize all the stupid letters for these stupid language/regions"
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09:16.36ShadowJKit became reachable for me on n810 after adding it to xterm buttonbar
09:16.41timeless_mbpbut if they have numbers from sales to show that the customers don't actually want this
09:16.53ShadowJKbut I'd like all the xterm buttonbar buttons offscreen :)
09:16.54timeless_mbpthen the next time around, the ui team can say "no, they really don't want that"
09:17.02till-maybe nokia should use these oled-keyboard
09:17.08timeless_mbpShadowJK: that's open source, *please* patch it
09:17.19timeless_mbptill-: do you want to pay an extra 50-100 EUR more?
09:17.40ShadowJKtimeless_mbp: by offscreen I meant moved to hw ;)
09:17.43till-does not seem so much on top of 600 euro
09:18.31timeless_mbpRST38h: again, the en layout has 4 arrow keys
09:18.45till-http://www.ubergizmo.com/photos/2007/12/optimus_keyboard.jpg  .. grayscale would be sufficient
09:18.55timeless_mbptill-: i know
09:19.01ShadowJKunfortunately most people can't actually figure out how to contact nokia, and even then, it'd be in the form of "software Y doesn't work because I need to press ^ but it's not on keyboard"
09:19.02timeless_mbpi'm just saying that it'll add cost
09:19.08timeless_mbpand people already complain about cost
09:19.14timeless_mbppersonally, i'd like it too
09:19.19timeless_mbpand think it's the only sane choice
09:19.21timeless_mbphowever, it is cost
09:19.37timeless_mbpShadowJK:
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09:19.45timeless_mbp1. nokia flagship stores (in select markets)
09:19.54ShadowJKwas playing game on his n810 the other day and it had bound ^ as a shortcut, which doesn't exist on scandinavian version :)
09:19.57timeless_mbp2. nokia care (the number isn't that hard to find per country)
09:20.07timeless_mbp3. whichever physical store sells the product
09:20.22timeless_mbpif you go to the local hardware store and tell them you want the english version
09:20.34timeless_mbpand then have your friends visit day after day w/ the same request
09:20.47ShadowJK/I/ could probably find the nokia care number... heck, I managed to find a real person at Siemens once
09:20.50timeless_mbpthey'll send feedback to nokia complaining that the model they have isn't selling
09:20.56timeless_mbpwith an explanation for why
09:20.59timeless_mbpShadowJK: wow
09:21.16timeless_mbpbut really
09:21.19ShadowJKas for physical stores... they just get whatever they can get...
09:21.22timeless_mbpif we *only* offered the en map
09:21.34timeless_mbpwe'd get more complaints in reverse
09:21.37till-we have a store for used notebooks here, they sell en keyboard layout with german labels glued on
09:21.44timeless_mbpjust as the first thing my finnish friend said was "where are :a, :o, 0a)
09:21.49ShadowJKLike, they were selling subsidized phones for DNA, but they couldn't actually get any locked verisons, so they just sold me unlocked verstion instead, for same price.. lol
09:22.00ShadowJKtimeless, yes, that's for sure
09:22.21timeless_mbpthe people here chose the best from a bad set of choices
09:22.38timeless_mbpand the software lets you pick a(n imo) more reasonable choice
09:22.54timeless_mbpwe haven't locked the keymap, heck, you can change it repeatedly on the fly, no reboot required
09:22.56adeusä and ö are common in finland
09:22.58timeless_mbp(unlike UI language)
09:23.04adeusso people would definitely complain
09:23.13timeless_mbpadeus: finnish speakers are stupid, yes :)
09:23.20timeless_mbpgrumbles
09:23.52timeless_mbpactually, the russian keymap behavior is cute
09:24.09timeless_mbpsince you can iiuc swap between it and the en one w/ a single stroke
09:24.23ShadowJKon my N800 I use En layout most of the time because the non-letter chars are more accessible than in Sv layout.. whenever I need åäö I just tap the language and switch temporarily
09:25.01adeusthen again if you only write in finnish c,w,å,q are useless as well
09:25.16ShadowJKx
09:25.25jaskaz is mostly useless too
09:25.26timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: while i hate it when people use the word "loose (slut)" when they mean "lose", you should know better. please be more careful
09:25.42julianoliverblinks
09:27.10timeless_mbpadeus: yeah
09:27.24timeless_mbpso why didn't they sacrifice w and q for :a and :o ? :)
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09:28.00adeuswe write in multiple languages a lot
09:28.01ShadowJKSpeedEvil, googling nbd swap brings you to the nbd homepage... it specifically says client and server on same machine is a very bad idea.. and also that creating nbd loops is a bad idea (where machine A has a client accessing B, and a server serving B which accesses A) and will deadlock almost instantly :-)
09:28.09adeuslike right now :P
09:28.45oilinkianyway the best solution for writing finnish is just ignore the dots. eg ä=a ö=o
09:28.51ShadowJKBut on the other hand, sacrificing currency symbols to get consistent non-letter placement wrt english would be unnoticed by most
09:29.24julianoliverShadowJK: agreed
09:29.41adeuslike the £
09:29.49adeuswhy oh why it is there in the nordic
09:30.10julianoliveryes this can all be moved to an input submenu or similar, as on mobile phones.
09:30.19timeless_mbpsighs
09:30.29ShadowJKadeus, no I mean I would rather have it there in nordic just so that all the specials are in the same place as in UK/US versions
09:30.36ShadowJKso that software compatibility is better :)
09:30.40timeless_mbpjulianoliver: have people posted pictures of the on screen sym picker?
09:30.52timeless_mbpthere's a row of deadkeys for umlauts and other diacritical marks
09:30.54julianolivernot that i'm aware..
09:30.58julianoliverright
09:31.19timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: are you willing to leak that? :)
09:33.40Corsacis there any picture with non us/uk keyboard?
09:36.51adeusfrom the nordic one yes
09:36.55adeusat least
09:37.29timeless_mbpsomeone had a picture showing the left right arrows
09:37.36timeless_mbpwe commented on it yesterday iirc
09:40.14lardman|homederf: I get a configure error, have you seen similar? : "./configure: line 17118: syntax error near unexpected token `have_poll="no"'"
09:40.29lardman|homeah, probably that `
09:41.52derfHrm, no, haven't seen that.
09:42.00lardman|homehmm
09:42.21derfDid you autoreconf --install ?
09:42.40lardman|homeyeah, but had to do it outside of scratchbox
09:42.58derfOh, well good luck then.
09:43.02lardman|homelol
09:43.27lardman|homewell I'll see if I can find the version string that stops the scratchbox version from working
09:44.09derfI had to upgrade several things to get it to work, even outside of sb.
09:45.08lardman|homeright, edited configure.ac to make my autoreconf sort of work, but still fails with an error
09:45.41derflibtool to 2.2.6a and automake to 1.10.2, I think.
09:45.50lardman|homebetter though, gone past the error from last time
09:46.13lardman|homeright, looks like we're in business, just can't find python :)
09:46.43derfOh yeah, I had to disable Python, too. I guess that'd be a problem for you, though.
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09:47.29lardman|homenow he tells me! :)
09:47.48derfWell, it was able to find it for me, mine was just too old.
09:48.11lardman|homecan't find mine as it's too new
09:48.11derfAnd I never use Python, so I didn't even think about it.
09:48.30lardman|homeI've just edited the configure file, but have no clue where that list of python binary names came from :(
09:48.31derfHaha. You need the Python that's Just Right.
09:49.13lardman|homeyeah
09:50.28RST38h"Booklet(tm) comes at a Pricelet(tm)" (C)TheRegister
09:52.03lardman|homehmm, derf I've got it compiling somehow (I hate configure + auto-this-that-the-other), and it's your code that seems to have made it choke
09:52.06lardman|homethis time
09:52.17derfWoohoo!
09:52.23derfThat I might actually be able to fix.
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09:52.42lardman|homehmm, lots of warnings, but no error I can see
09:52.55derfAnd yes, everyone hates autofoo.
09:53.32timeless_mbpso, is anyone visiting their local nokia flagship store? :)
09:53.56julianoliverderf: it's the vast, ENV variable recursing and teetering Makefiles i don't like..
09:54.06lardman|homederf: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m3bbba585
09:54.12lardman|homeI can't see the error though
09:54.27derfjulianoliver: At least you have a _hope_ of figuring out what's going on in a hand-written Makefile.
09:54.34julianoliverindeed..
09:55.25derflardman|home: The error is -Werror
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09:56.08lardman|homeah, error if there's a warning
09:56.27lardman|homeslightly optimistic build parameters :)
09:56.37derfYeah, no kidding.
09:57.20lardman|homehow can I override that
09:57.30lardman|homeI can't face needing to reauto*
09:57.41derfEdit the Makefile by hand :)
09:57.55lardman|homeoh God
09:58.01lardman|homewhat about setting -Wnone
09:58.07lardman|homedoes that exist?
09:58.24adeusor -Wall
09:58.35lardman|home-Wall is there, I don't want any warnings
09:59.13adeusremove that
09:59.34lardman|homecross fingers & toes
09:59.51lardman|homecrap
09:59.56derfYou really need -Wno-parentheses for my code to compile with -Werror
10:00.09derfI don't know how you got a build configuration without that.
10:00.22lardman|homeI have that
10:00.38lardman|homehmm, random crapness
10:00.41derfOh, so you do.
10:00.48lardman|homeI removed the -Wall from rules, and now it's built past your code
10:00.49derfThen why is it still suggesting parentheses everywhere?
10:00.50ShadowJKtimeless, local isn't so local, is it open weekends? :)
10:00.56lardman|homeit isn't any more
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10:01.02lardman|homejust failed somewhere else now
10:01.05timeless_mbpdunno :)
10:01.08timeless_mbpi think so
10:01.29lardman|homewhat's the don't warn about function prototypes flag?
10:01.31timeless_mbpotoh, i probably last visited a week ago tuesday or so
10:02.07derf-Wno-missing-prototype, I think.
10:02.22lardman|homeok thanks, does the order of the -W flags matter?
10:02.28lardman|homedo I have to do that one after -Wall?
10:02.47adeusno
10:03.11lardman|homeok, will try again then
10:03.33lardman|homeoh dear, that didn't go well
10:03.43lardman|homeC compiler can't create executables now
10:05.31ShadowJKwhat's flagship store in finnish..
10:06.34derflardman|home: Ah, the option is supposed to have an s at the end.
10:06.46timeless_mbphelp
10:06.57timeless_mbpi just got finnish spam to two prepaid cell phone numbers
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10:07.05lardman|homederf: does that tell it to warn on those things or to ignore them?
10:07.15derflardman|home: To ignore them.
10:07.24derfBut I mean, the default should be to ignore them.
10:07.42lardman|homeyeah well I can't get rid of the -Wall -Werror, though I'm looking
10:07.52derfSo I'm not sure why you're getting a warning, unless you're compiling in C++.
10:07.56julianoliverShadowJK: it's an american concept i think.. no idea what it is in Finnish. Deutsche or Espanol perhaps.
10:08.19ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, if you're unlucky you've unknowingly signed up to receive those messages and get charged for it :(
10:08.47lardman|homederf: no plain C
10:09.03lardman|homederf: have just edited Makefile.in, hopefully that will get rid of it
10:09.10cyndisflagship store in finnish = lippulaivamyymälä
10:09.16lardman|homeyes, looks like Werror is gone now
10:09.25lardman|homefinally, built
10:09.26ShadowJKcyndis, 0 results on nokia.fi :)
10:09.29lardman|homebloody thing! :)
10:09.30ShadowJKit doesn't work to translate literally
10:09.44timeless_mbpsyyskuussa kannattaa ladata ihan sikana, sillä saat 50% enemmän puheaikaa liittymääsi. Esim. 20 eurolla saat 30 euro puheaikka. Siis Go! Nyt! Heti! -> www.go.fi
10:09.50timeless_mbpIn September we suggest you download sikana just because you get 50% more talk time to join. Eg 20 euros, you get 30 euro your time. So Go! Now! Immediately! -> Www.go.fi
10:09.56timeless_mbpwhat's sikana?
10:09.56cyndiswell, that term's used pretty often :p
10:10.11cyndiskind of "a lot"
10:10.22adeusexact translation "like a pig"
10:10.23adeus:)
10:10.40julianoliverFlagship Pig?
10:10.49cyndisapparently the flagship store is called "nokia flagship store" even in nokia.fi
10:11.01timeless_mbpheh
10:11.09adeus"lippulaiva" is the common term for that
10:11.16timeless_mbpbtw, "flagship store" is not ime common in US English
10:11.17adeusbut Finns relate that to Alko
10:11.30lardman|homeargh, what is it with sftp these days, very very slow on both my desktop and N810
10:11.39timeless_mbpand the way nokia uses it is imo mostly broken
10:12.51inztimeless, "download" is actually wrong translation in that context
10:13.14timeless_mbpinz: well, you're welcome to copy the finnish to google translate and suggest a better translation
10:13.32timeless_mbpi spent an hour or so earlier this week walking google translate through a nokia.fi survey
10:13.38timeless_mbppage at a time correcting it :)
10:13.45timeless_mbpman that survey sucks
10:13.53timeless_mbps/sucks/sucked/
10:13.53inz=)
10:14.17kirma"lippulaiva" in helsinki area really causes association to the city-center alcohol monopoly store featuring stuff like several thousand euro whiskeys etc... :]
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10:15.02ShadowJKI think I spent too much on my last visit to Alko. They packed the bags for me. That has never happened before to me in .fi :)
10:15.02kirmaanyway, there's at least one phone there in aleksanterinkatu 44 or whatever. tried it right after ten o'clock...
10:15.40timeless_mbpShadowJK: lol
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10:15.58timeless_mbpkirma: did you try messing it up? :)
10:16.12ShadowJKIs there  a no taking photos of it rule?
10:16.22timeless_mbpponders
10:16.24timeless_mbpa public store
10:16.29kirmaI visit the place too little nowadays too, it used to be so that there was the "master of shop" coming to give personalised suggestions to me, offering chance for going to exclusive tasting evenings and even getting bottles from his home collection back to the catalog to be sold to me ;)
10:16.30timeless_mbpi should hope not
10:16.35timeless_mbpit would seem kinda stupid
10:16.48julianoliverShadowJK: Helsinki has punished my pocket a couple of times but i managed to stay in Tampere for a week or so quite cheaply.
10:16.54kirmaback then I spent like at least 5000 euros per year on champagne :o
10:16.59julianoliverkirma: same with System Bolaget in Sweden..
10:17.10timeless_mbpsighs
10:17.14timeless_mbpfinns and their liquor
10:17.14ShadowJKmessing it up... how about adding the Diablo SDK repo and trying to install non-busybox userland, and forcing/answering yes whenever issues arose? :)
10:17.28timeless_mbpheh
10:17.34timeless_mbpthat'd be pretty cruel
10:17.35julianoliveri was on a boat a few times en route to .fi while old drunkards danced around me fueled with tax free liquor.
10:17.39julianolivermessy to say the least.
10:18.05ShadowJKjulianoliver, that's standard...
10:18.19ShadowJKThat's the sole purpose of the existence of those boats even :/
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10:24.42lardman|homehmm, am shocked, editing debian/rules is not as nasty as it looks
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10:24.55mgedminwith debhelper 7 debian/rules can be as little as three lines
10:25.10derfBut God help you if you want to do something the slightest bit unusual.
10:25.24lardman|homeyeah that's true
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10:25.35lardman|homeI just copied and pasted and crossed everything
10:25.42wazdheya all
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10:27.56wazdwow!)
10:28.10lardman|homelooks what you've done wazd!
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10:28.27lbtbit rough today
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10:28.57wazd"wazd is on the channel!!11" :D
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10:33.15mgedminplease stop, I'm getting seasick
10:33.48timeless_mbplbt: got some time?
10:33.51timeless_mbpi'm almost done
10:33.56timeless_mbpbut i could probably use some support :)
10:34.29lbtok
10:34.44wazdlol, berst MagSafe ad ever :D
10:34.48wazdbest*
10:35.03wazdhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/video-crooks-clean-out-new-jersey-apple-store-in-31-impressive/
10:36.28inzwazd, "don't try to replicates this [...] without wearing a head-mounted camcordeer" xD
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10:36.45lbttimeless_mbp: what on?
10:37.00timeless_mbpthe usual ;-)
10:37.04lardman|homecheers for the help chaps, bbl
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10:38.55vigneswariStskeeps, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2009-01-13.log.html
10:39.13vigneswariStskeeps, in this ohnx: nm-applet[3465]: GLIB WARNING ** default - Icon nm-device-wwan missing: Icon 'nm.. not present in theme
10:39.37vigneswarihow did you solve the problem Stskeeps
10:39.53vigneswariStskeeps, I am also facing same typr of issue
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10:41.01timeless_mbpvigneswari: the obvious thing would be to add files to the proper image directories ;-)
10:41.53vigneswaritimeless_mbp, how to find the right directory..where it will be written
10:42.24timeless_mbpi just look for all directories that have pictures :)
10:42.30timeless_mbpthen i look at the pictures :)
10:42.46timeless_mbpthe ones that have pictures in similar context are obviously good choices :)
10:42.51timeless_mbpalternatively, you could use strace :)
10:42.55ShadowJKNow i know why im so cranky. i want n900 now now now! :)
10:43.05rkirti:D
10:43.25timeless_mbpwants to upgrade an n900 or three from enGRish to English
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10:43.32timeless_mbpchuckles
10:43.46timeless_mbpsomeone wanted us to select a user agent that had value: gb-GB in it :)
10:44.09ShadowJKDo you mean enklisch :)
10:44.15kirmawonder what would have happened if I had put the N900 into my pocket, distract the personnel and walked out of the nokia store.
10:44.21qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: send them here. I'm a generous guy, I'll do the upgrades for free
10:44.39vigneswaritimeless_mbp, in icon theme it is mentioned theme name & size 26..but the pictures are in another folder with different size
10:44.42timeless_mbpkirma: traditionally they're plugged into special chargers
10:44.56timeless_mbpthe chargers whine very loudly when people disconnect them
10:45.02kirmathis one wasn't, at least at point when I tried it as first client on the store
10:45.02timeless_mbpthe lights change too
10:45.08kirmajust taken from the back room
10:45.08timeless_mbpwow
10:45.21timeless_mbpwell, there are a number of security cameras (look up)
10:45.28kirmaI bet :)
10:45.32timeless_mbpi'm sure they'd have you arrested eventually
10:45.42kirmaI'm just wondering *how* much effort they would have spent to get it back :)
10:46.14timeless_mbpa better question is whether you could actually buy one and take it home today
10:46.33timeless_mbpif the answer is "yes", then, if i were them, i'd just get private security/cops to grab you
10:46.39timeless_mbpand take out the next one
10:47.20timeless_mbpnote: i don't condone theft <period>
10:47.35timeless_mbpotoh, i'm not perfect
10:47.52timeless_mbpbut i will note that finns are sticklers, and will merrily turn you into authorities
10:48.00RST38hmoos at whoever he has not mooed today
10:48.07timeless_mbpand their efforts to warn you before they do so are not particularly notable
10:48.15vigneswaritimeless_mbp, in icon theme it is mentioned theme name & size 26..but the pictures are in another folder with different size
10:48.45timeless_mbpvigneswari: do you have a Mer x86 in vbox/vmware?
10:48.58timeless_mbpbecause this sort of thing is easily resolved w/ strace
10:49.12suihkulokkiwonders if timeless_mbp can be driven nuts by inserting incorrect english on purpose ;)
10:49.14timeless_mbpturns on Mer
10:49.30timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: did you see "On ho"?
10:49.54vigneswariok am trying with strace timeless_mbp
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10:50.40suihkulokkitimeless_mbp: yeah :|
10:50.40mgedminread that as vigneswari trying to strace timeless's behaviour when confronted with incorrect english
10:50.54mgedminI'm sure strace would be very useful in medicine
10:51.27timeless_mbpmgedmin: ever had iodine injected into your system?
10:51.32timeless_mbpstill remembers that
10:51.33mgedminno
10:52.10timeless_mbphttp://www.freepatentsonline.com/3002091.html
10:52.24timeless_mbphttp://www.freepatentsonline.com/3339072.html
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10:52.32timeless_mbptotally useless ui there...
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10:53.49SpeedEvilwants caffine injected into his system.
10:54.01SpeedEvilneeds to get out of bed.
10:54.10SpeedEviloops - mischan
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11:06.16AStormhey guys
11:06.32AStormis this the pinout used in N810 (and hopefully N900, unless that uses iPhone's)
11:06.35AStormhttp://www.nokia-tuning.net/index.php?s=pinout_n95av
11:07.26AStorm(iPhone has inverted Mic/GND)
11:08.07AStormI've to be sure
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11:11.09julianoliverAStorm: what physical surface does the iPhone screen have? it seems remarkably resistant to smearing compared to some other touch-based phones i've seen.
11:11.45AStormoleoptic capacitive
11:11.58AStormit's very different from resistive surfaces
11:12.02royerfaHI
11:12.04aquatixjulianoliver: HTC Hero has a similar coating, quite cool
11:12.09julianoliverAStorm: right.
11:12.24julianoliverAStorm: i was thinking of buying a Hero actually as I'm targetting Android also.
11:12.25AStormthere's a way to make a resistive screen with a nice surface, but likely patented and expensive
11:12.32royerfado you guys think that Maemno will replace Symbian at some point ?
11:12.33julianoliveri see.
11:12.38julianoliverroyerfa: yes
11:12.38AStormusing nanosilver
11:12.44julianoliverahah..
11:12.52zerojayPCYes, but only on high end phones.
11:12.53julianoliverglad someone can finally explain this to me!
11:13.08aquatixjulianoliver: i really like the Hero, fwiw :)
11:13.29julianoliveraquatix: good to know.. solid build?
11:13.39royerfadid someone used Maemo on the Beagle board ?
11:14.07royerfaI have tried yesterday and got a lot of errors ...
11:14.08zerojayPCSomeone did and recorded it on Youtube.
11:14.13zerojayPCDon't remember who it was though.
11:14.19aquatixjulianoliver: yep, works fine, feels great in the hand
11:14.32julianoliveraquatix: looks quite pocketfriendly, thin.
11:14.41aquatixit is
11:15.04AStormthe problem with capacitive is obviously non-reactiveness to normal styluses
11:15.06julianoliveraquatix: personally the most attractive phone out there for me is the Palm Pre.. i'm really into the physical kb.
11:15.35aquatixAStorm: i don't miss it though
11:15.39julianoliverAStorm: indeed a problem if you use your handheld as a general purpose computer.
11:15.40RST38hAStorm: the real problem is resolution
11:15.40aquatixjulianoliver: Pre is nice too
11:15.40kirmaI sort of think that maemo "will replace symbian", but what it means is that maemo takes the top position and symbian is moved to lower position, getting further and further cheaper phones as chips advance
11:15.50RST38hAStorm: You CAN make a proper stylus for capacitive
11:15.54AStormyes
11:15.56aquatixpersonally i like the amount of android apps available, and the onscreen kb is surprisingly usable
11:16.05AStormassuming the user doesn't wear gloves
11:16.10julianoliveraquatix: my only worry is the longevity of WebOS as a platform..
11:16.10AStorm:>
11:16.13aquatixAStorm: good point :)
11:16.16RST38huse your nose!!!
11:16.25aquatixAStorm: but gloves don't help on any touchscreen
11:16.34AStormtheyt work on resistive at least
11:16.36kirmasymbian will die altogether for nokia if they fail in Qt push, but if it succeeds, it can become a long-term platform for "middle-class" phones or whatever they should be called
11:16.46aquatixAStorm: or maybe my gloves are too thick ;)
11:17.02AStormor rather, too high resistance
11:17.12SpeedEvilmaemo is not going to be on the cheapest phones for a _long_ time
11:17.18julianoliver"Mountainclimbers prefer Resistive."
11:17.27aquatixi rather use my phone without glove anyway, as i'm afraid to drop it
11:17.34aquatixjulianoliver: ghehe
11:17.41AStormabuse the kickstand as a handguard
11:17.46AStormworks for me
11:17.50aquatixi think symbian will be the low-end smartphone stuff
11:17.56julianoliveragreed
11:18.04aquatixAStorm: true
11:18.06kirmanokia would probably want Qt being the native development environment for S40 too, at least internally
11:18.13AStormunless maemo dislodges it :P
11:18.16aquatixAStorm: but my phones don't have a kickstand :)
11:18.23AStormhehehe
11:18.30julianoliverLinux based OS's are whether the action is, especially given Linux and ARM go back quite some time.
11:18.35AStormI was talking about n810
11:18.37kirmathen they could, eventually, move to entirely Qt-based UI development
11:18.38AStorm(and n900)
11:18.58aquatixAStorm: yeah
11:19.05kirmaand replace the cheapest phone category with S40 once it's feasible with chip prices
11:20.37kirmaoh well, S40 is also dependent on colour screens these days and minimum resolutions... well, hard to say about that part and Qt
11:20.45julianoliveraquatix: how do you like the 'chin' in the Hero? i've always wondered why it's such a point of contention..
11:21.36_berto_guys, what's that Ovi SDK thing ? http://conversations.nokia.com/2009/09/03/ovi-sdk-launched/
11:22.42SpeedEvilBy 'cheapest phone' - I mean the ones available for 10 pounds :)
11:22.57aquatixjulianoliver: i rather like it :) it works well for holding it and is shaped in such a way that you can press the keys comfortably with one hand
11:23.04SpeedEvilhttp://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/phones/pay-as-you-go/lg/gb102/overview/
11:23.32AStorm_berto_: a platform for Nokia webapps
11:25.13kirmaI suppose location information is available through that on N900 browser?
11:25.36AStormno?
11:25.45AStormit's for grabbing maps and making new Ovi apps
11:25.47julianoliveraquatix: right.. i notice that the iPhone is largely a two-handed device..
11:25.57kirmastandards-compliant method would be nice, but *anything* is better than the alternative where you have to deploy a local web server and all kinds of ajax hacks to deliver it...
11:26.04kirmawell, anyway, even if it's not that way
11:26.40aquatixjulianoliver: i can do about anything with one hand
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11:26.52aquatixholding it in my left hand and using my thumb
11:26.54kirmaI have been using the daemon hack approach for years on my E90, but I hardly find it widely deployable option for location aware web aps
11:26.56kirmaapps
11:27.08julianoliveraquatix: very good to know..
11:27.33suihkulokkiwould rather have web apps not know where I am
11:28.06kirmawell, the security framework has to take care of user knowing what information goes where
11:28.38suihkulokkibrowsers and security, lol
11:28.47kirmabut making applications that completely maintain user location anonymity and still provide valuable location-based services to the users is challenging
11:28.52julianoliversuihkulokki: this is one concern with Android: it's hard to know what's being mined.
11:29.04suihkulokkisuddenly remembers who kirma is :)
11:29.17kirmaheh
11:30.00ccookecan't help but wondering about implementing support for Android apps on top of maemo. Might be interesting.
11:30.15ccooke(someone is probably already looking in to it, I expect :-)
11:30.23msh_hrm. Depends: ${shlibs:Depends} seems a bit broken with the autobuilder or something.
11:30.28msh_doesn't pick up a link to zlib
11:31.08kirmamy "traditional" location based app has been "give me next buses and walking/bus instructions from this spot to home/place X"
11:32.35ccookethe location based apps are wonderful - especially Locale on Android. If nobody implements a port of that, I might have to give it a try myself
11:34.29kirma"site X wants to use your location information. [allow once] [allow always] [deny once] [deny always]"
11:34.54kirmabuilt securely as check in the browser. that really should be there, in the browser in my opinion...
11:35.19aquatixccooke: there is the android emulator, and ubuntu has some implementation to run android apps
11:35.25aquatixso if those work on arm... :)
11:35.28kirmaand "disable location service" in preferences
11:35.46aquatixor some port of darvik
11:36.07aquatixerm, whatsitcalled
11:36.07ccookeaquatix: yeah, I've seen them.
11:36.14ccookebut android itself runs on arm
11:36.17aquatixdalvik
11:36.21kirmafirefox 3.5 has that stuff to some extent at least. I hope it gets to N900 too... eventually, at least.
11:36.35aquatixccooke: yeah, so some port of dalvik to maemo would be interesting
11:37.07ccookeaquatix: Or parts of it. Really you'd need the runtime framework and an interface layer to work with maemo
11:37.15ccookebut it could be a very interesting thing
11:37.55ccookeand hey, more available applications are generally a good thing
11:38.10X-FadeAndroid doesn't use X right? So you have to interface quite a lot?
11:38.19ccookeX-Fade: yep.
11:38.35ccookebut some of that work is already done.
11:38.41julianoliverccooke: really?
11:38.42X-FadeSounds painful.
11:38.46julianoliverindeed
11:38.47ccookeIIRC, the Ubuntu method uses an X-to-android container.
11:38.54julianolivernice.
11:39.27ccookejulianoliver: Canonical have demod android apps running on Ubuntu. Some time ago, actually - 6-8 months I think
11:39.43julianoliveri'm clearly out of touch.
11:39.45ccookeah, may this year
11:39.53ccookehttp://www.engadget.com/2009/05/26/canonical-giving-ubuntu-the-gift-of-android-apps/
11:39.58ccookeso not that long
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11:44.29AStormso, N900 could run android apps?
11:44.36AStorm(abusing that interface)
11:44.51qwerty12_N810That sounds perverted :)
11:46.25zerojayPCMuch rather have Maemo apps.
11:46.43Stskeepsit could, yeah
11:47.11Stskeepsbut it would show off maemo devices are computers, not embedded devices with one api
11:54.07andre__favorite questions i expect for N900: "Why does clicking this .exe brings up "Format not recognized"" and "How can I install Maemo 5 on my PC?"
11:54.43qwerty12_N810"How do I load up Crysis on it?"
11:54.52kirmaexe question must be the thing that shows windows users that maemo is total crap
11:54.59kirmano computer can be so crappy
11:55.01andre__wonders how patient and friendly the maemo talk community will still be when this has been posted for the 20th time by people that have never seen a "Search" button
11:56.19andre__hmm, will users really be interested in the "Updated icon cache" popup in h-a-m when installing $something?
11:56.34RST38handre: No.
11:56.46andre__and will more than 10% know what it means?
11:56.47RST38handre: Users will be interested in an option to install from files though.
11:57.08lcukoh fuck
11:57.15X-FadeRST38h: You can.
11:57.21qwerty12_N810andre__: Is it still slow to update the icon cache? I add that popup because, on the N8x0, it takes ages
11:57.23X-FadeRST38h: That is what .install is for ;)
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11:57.31RST38hX-Fade: Ah, cool
11:57.44RST38hX-Fade: I was under impression .installs were disabled as well
11:57.52X-FadeRST38h: And apt-get of course.
11:58.04RST38hX-Fade: Well can't suggest apt-get to ordinary users...
11:58.34X-FadeRST38h: No, but ordinary users shouldn't be installing separate files either.
11:58.43X-FadeRST38h: That is a road to disaster too.
11:58.53javispedrois starting to seriously want n8x0 powervr drivers.......... playing with ogles only exacerbates him
11:58.57RST38hqwerty,andre: Maybe write a UI wrapper for cache updater that shows a message and a progress bar?
11:59.18RST38hX-Fade: installer won't let them install stuff that breaks other packages
11:59.34RST38hX-Fade: So I do not think it is such a terrible disaster, not right away anyway
11:59.38X-FadeRST38h: No, but it can at a later date.
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12:00.04X-FadeRST38h: And the user will never get an updated version of the package that way.
12:00.17RST38hX-Fade: I really do not see a generic scenario for that. Only if user installs a malicious package
12:00.20andre__RST38h, progress bar? either sounds like overkill, or i didn't get your </irony> markers
12:00.22RST38hX-Fade: Well, that is ok
12:00.43RST38handre: Only half ironic here. Qwerty is correct - icon cache updating takes LONG time
12:01.09RST38handre: And if something takes long time, showing progress is a sane thing to do
12:01.19javispedrothere's already a progress bar.
12:01.22RST38hHeya, KotCzarny, have not seen you here for a while
12:01.33KotCzarnyyeah
12:01.41KotCzarnywas in #liqbase all the time
12:01.46wazdtimeless_mbp: ping?
12:01.50RST38hjavis: Yes, but it does nothign interesting :)
12:01.52KotCzarnywhat's happening?
12:02.17RST38hKotCzarny: N900 up for preorder, will apparently miss arrow keys in some european markets
12:02.25KotCzarnylol
12:02.38KotCzarnywell, they should have go with optical trackpoint anyway
12:02.43RST38hKotCzarny: Aside from that not much
12:03.24lcukgentlemen (and ladies).  i have just been asked where my heart lies.  where my battle lines are drawn.  i have been asked whether i can continue in my job or if my mind is out there.  i had to answer honestly and recklessly.  i believe my current job is winding up and myself and my family will be left with nothing.
12:04.04lcukmy heart lies with open source, my heart lies with maemo, my heart lies in the future.  how can i make it work
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12:04.51RST38hlcuk: Find a real job =)
12:05.15Corsacat nokia
12:05.20RST38hnests at a neraby power line and starts cleaning his feathers
12:05.22lcuki have never felt the need to
12:05.44lcuki have always been comfortable with my employer, he has treated me right
12:05.45RST38hNEVERMORE? =)
12:05.54wazdGuys, why Vlad Vasiliev is not approved for Summit Sponsorship?
12:06.02lcuki have been to exactly 1 serious job interview in my life
12:06.04mikkov__madbomber tested with real N900
12:06.35mikkov__accelerometer was quite noisy, needs smoothing
12:06.41RST38hlcuk: We have a position open in platform simulation team, if you are interested :)
12:06.44lcukmikkov_,
12:06.47andre__lcuk, same here :)
12:06.52lcukmy code is on the accelerometer page of the wiki
12:06.55lcukit includes smoothing
12:07.00*** part/#maemo KotCzarny (n=ariel@pool-72-76-3-236.nwrknj.east.verizon.net)
12:07.00lcukfor apps over 25fps
12:07.17mikkov__yesh saw that
12:07.22lcukand it works well
12:08.57Stskeepswazd: there's a page with votes
12:09.05wazdStskeeps: yeah
12:09.14wazdStskeeps: 3 of council haven't voted
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12:09.20lcukwazd - ideas?
12:09.23wazd2 voted positive
12:09.27Stskeepsdid he receive an email he was rejected?
12:09.29lcukfor what i asked last night
12:09.35wazdStskeeps: I guess not
12:09.45lcukvlad should be there.
12:09.45Stskeepsthen wait for that :)
12:09.54lcuki was looking forward to talking with him again
12:09.56wazdlcuk: oh, haven't thought of it yet, hella lots of work
12:09.56crownhi@all
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12:10.02RST38hwazd: But this should not be enough for rejection
12:10.09lcuksomething quick and from the heart
12:10.25wazdRST38h: he's fricking admin of most popular app for Maemo :D
12:10.27RST38hwazd: they should all vote, shouldn't they?
12:10.29lcuktop left 2nd column
12:10.32qwerty12_N810His app is on the Maemo Select page already; is it likely that he'd be rejected?
12:10.33lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liq.20090710_002210.lib.holymoly.png
12:10.40lcukthats my crap attempt
12:10.53Stskeepswazd: i think it's just in progress really
12:11.02X-Fadewazd: He has not been rejected, at least not in the registration database.
12:11.07RST38hwazd: Has he got an actual rejection letter?
12:11.12*** join/#maemo guaka (n=guaka@conference/drupalcon/x-figvavcboiscohmb)
12:11.22X-Fadewazd: And if he was, his registration would have been deleted.
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12:11.30wazdI haven't said he's rejected, I said he's not approved :P
12:11.42RST38hwazd: nobody is so far
12:11.55wazdRST38h: I am :D
12:12.05RST38hHmm weird
12:12.10wazdI'm the silliest member of the community
12:12.42wazdX-Fade: oh, and another question, Nokia employees don't get sponsorship at all?
12:13.25lcukno
12:13.27X-Fadewazd: Quim told the council to reject them. They should ask their own managers.
12:13.32lcukthey fly in on black helicopters
12:14.47RST38hX-Fade: Stupid question: how do I apply for sponsorship anyway?
12:15.04X-FadeRST38h: By registering and clicking the right box?
12:15.18Corsacdon't you have a local black helicopters retailer?
12:15.22RST38hX-Fade: What if I have not clicked when registering?
12:15.34X-FadeRST38h: Then just edit your registration?
12:17.14*** join/#maemo stemosco (n=stemosco@esprx02x.nokia.com)
12:20.03*** join/#maemo lardman|home (n=vircuser@78.145.165.218)
12:21.39wazdX-Fade: ok, thx
12:21.58wazdRST38h: you can click it later :)
12:22.42Jaffa:)
12:22.54X-Fade^^^^^^ blame him ;)
12:23.02Khertani'm bacl
12:28.25*** join/#maemo belendax (n=Zahra@unaffiliated/belendax)
12:28.28RST38hX-Fade: Aha. How do I get to my registration? =)
12:28.34RST38hafter the fact that is
12:28.56wazdRST38h: that's a good question, I don't know it too :D
12:29.04*** part/#maemo belendax (n=Zahra@unaffiliated/belendax)
12:29.13X-FadeRST38h: by checking your mail
12:29.28X-FadeOr log in, go to http://maemo.org/news/events/maemo_summit_2009/#participants
12:29.31RST38hX-Fade: but I already did!
12:29.33*** join/#maemo zerojay (n=zerojay@74.198.12.6)
12:29.43X-FadeAnd then there is the link above the number of participants.
12:29.51RST38hX-Fade: thanks =)
12:33.27*** join/#maemo eocanha (n=eocanha@63.227.117.91.static.mundo-r.com)
12:36.27JaffaX-Fade: I've got the travel details through from Quim so'll send a patch to that midgard file when I have access to the URL again (opened it in Firefox on a different computer so don't have it to hand)
12:36.56X-FadeJaffa: ok, no problem.
12:37.25Jaffawazd: Please don't fly off the handle about sponsorships. Sometimes mistakes are made; but budget is not infinite and - as agreed on tmo - we're favouring people who are giving talks over anyone else (or who has been involved in organising it).
12:38.01Jaffaspots on vaispy that there's a new tmo thread on the ITT -> tmo transition! Yay!
12:39.12Jaffayerga: thanks for uploading python-facebook to extras-devel btw; I was going to include a copy of it inside my app; but now I can do it properly :)
12:39.33JaffaAnyway, time for "cross-platform development with Ovi SDK" talk.
12:39.45zerojayFun.
12:39.51zerojayEnjoy, man.
12:40.18andre__I'm really surprised that people just add their name to the participants list (and *nothing* else), have the 3 default points, and dare to request sponsorship (without saying *anything* about what they work on)
12:40.35andre__err, /me talking about the summit here
12:41.04derfYou're surprised people want something for nothing?
12:41.40qwerty12_N810andre__: They just wanted to visit the coffee shops :)
12:41.41andre__heh. i'm surprised that people don't spend a second on thinking how they could raise their chances to actually get some sponsorship
12:41.59andre__pah, coffee shops. that was cool when i was 15
12:42.26qwerty12_N810Yeah; now you grow the stuff in your back garden?
12:42.43lardman|homein the loft qwerty12_N810
12:42.46X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Well, technically I could ;)
12:42.59*** join/#maemo AndrewFBlack (n=ablack@232-220.dothan.cable.graceba.net)
12:43.03andre__qwerty12_N810, no, why should i do that myself if i can outsource that? :-P
12:43.36qwerty12_N810lol
12:43.47andre__hmm, and i both need a back garden and a loft to make you guys happy, it seems
12:43.50Khertans[14:41] <andre__> heh. i'm surprised that people don't spend a second on thinking how they could raise their chances to actually get some sponsorship <<<
12:44.27andre__err s/raise/increase
12:44.38Jaffaandre__: Tell me about it. I've had the same thoughts looking through some of the list.
12:44.48andre__i can imagine
12:44.51X-FadeJaffa: How about instant rejection?
12:45.01JaffaWeb Runtime demo at the moment. APIs look useful - would be good to get on Maemo (when we get it)
12:45.13KhertanX-Fade: instant rejection for sponsorship ?
12:45.14Khertanhéhé
12:45.15X-FadeJaffa: Just get these registrations of the list as soon as possible.
12:45.25*** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@nemein.suvilahti.nemein.net)
12:45.40JaffaX-Fade: Most have already been rejected - unless there's been a glut recently.
12:45.41*** join/#maemo ArSa (n=ArSa@173-25-26-173.client.mchsi.com)
12:45.52JaffaJob for whilst waiting for the plane, perhaps.
12:46.15wazdhttp://maemo.zhil.in/ - how's the hat? :)
12:46.50lcuk:) wazd
12:47.00Jaffawazd: Keyboard wider, perhaps? And the bottom row 'Z' being so far left compared with Q & A is a bit odd ;-)
12:47.14Jaffawazd: And it's got a hardware button?! ;-)
12:47.18X-FadeJaffa: Yeah a few.
12:47.29lcukstart with that background as 800px wide wazd
12:47.49*** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@nemein.suvilahti.nemein.net)
12:48.23JaffaX-Fade: I'll make some executive decisions ASAP
12:48.39X-FadeJaffa: Doesn't seem to bad. Only 2 left it seems.
12:48.44X-Fade*too
12:49.00wazdJaffa: not e900, hat of the blog :)
12:49.20Jaffawazd: Ah :)
12:49.35Jaffawazd: You mean the masthead?
12:50.27X-Fadewazd: hmm what is up with that antialising of the font?
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12:51.03X-Fadewazd: And in the e900 part-> Bluetoth
12:51.17wazdoh sht :D
12:51.42qwerty12_N810shit
12:51.43qwerty12_N810:p
12:52.19Jaffa"N900 will have content supplied through Ovi Store"
12:52.29Khertan<Jaffa> "N900 will have content supplied through Ovi Store" ?
12:52.58zerojayYes.
12:53.12Stskeepsneat
12:53.17JaffaJust on a slide
12:53.23Stskeepscomes with music yet? ;p
12:53.29zerojayHeh
12:53.38*** join/#maemo alecrim (n=alecrim@201008190202.user.veloxzone.com.br)
12:53.59qwerty12_N810Yes, I want the N900 to keep me on the straight and narrow when it comes to songs.
12:54.00Stskeepsit'll be interesting to see how they handle ovi on linux
12:54.20zerojayYeah, for sure.
12:54.29zerojayOvi suite?
12:54.47zackydoes it make playlists for last 60 played songs,newly added and such?
12:55.15zerojayThe default media player always has before.
12:55.25zackyok
12:55.39zackyand you can change songs with the headphones, right?
12:55.59JaffaAlso: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30863507@N02/3884352142/
12:56.13royerfaCan you please point me to a place where I can have a prebuild Maemo filesytem for beagle ?
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12:58.24zerojayUse the sdk.
12:59.00X-Faderoyerfa: http://maemo-beagle.garage.maemo.org/ ?
13:02.40crownwill nokia be able to handle ovi for a opensource linux system , they would need to close terminal and root access then right?
13:03.03*** join/#maemo renato (n=renato@200.184.118.130)
13:03.19X-Fadecrown: No, all depends on the app and service.
13:03.27SpeedEvilAnd - IMO - the carrier
13:03.29lcukgulp
13:03.59SpeedEvilI think some carriers simply won't do an open phone. (as in subsidise)
13:04.00crownbut if i understand the maemo garage system right first place is the garage and then nokia?
13:04.14X-FadeYou have all kinds of options from imei locking to activation.
13:04.18SpeedEvilIf nokia are just not going to supply them ratehr than compromise the openness is of course possible in theory.
13:05.02crowni think about to buy a n900 about the iphone with jailbreak and so one is to much stress i think thats why i want to have a open source system
13:05.24keesjyou could charge for online services I guess
13:05.30mavhcyou can lock the phone part down without locking the computer part
13:05.34X-Fadecrown: You're certainly not forced to use the store.
13:05.58crownare there similar apps in the garage then?
13:06.17X-Fadecrown: The normal Application Manager which is in the device.
13:06.19SpeedEvilmavhc: yeah. I think tht's going to be an acceptable concept for some networks.
13:06.27crownsry for asking that stupid but iam new into the meamo thing
13:06.36X-Fadecrown: Which can connect to any apt repository.
13:06.54SpeedEvilTypically networks will announce 'coming soon' phones.
13:06.56crownlike on iphone then to hackolu repo for example okay
13:07.06*** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net)
13:07.08crownthat what i wanted to hear:D
13:07.09SpeedEvilAs far as I'm aware - no network has announced the n900
13:07.28X-Fadecrown: Only the community repository is on the device by default.
13:07.42SpeedEvilWhich may imply that nokia is simply - initially - releasing to a very self-selecting audience - that willing to pay full price for a phone that runs linux.
13:07.53crownsure but there are other repos too? @x-fade
13:08.13X-Fadecrown: Extras will be the largest. Which are all community apps.
13:08.26SpeedEvilAnd they may then think about releasing it more widely and pushing it into carriers when it gets more polished and hyped.
13:08.40X-FadeRST38h: Can you add a space in your projects list please?
13:08.59X-FadeRST38h: You're breaking the layout ;)
13:09.06*** join/#maemo eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-12-179.revip2.asianet.co.th)
13:10.05crown@x-fade do you think the n900 will be that big one like iphone in future?
13:10.46X-Fadecrown: Only time will tell ;)
13:10.50SpeedEvilcrown: not in the immediate future.
13:11.08SpeedEvilcrown: If it was going to be as big as iphone initially - at least some carriers would have announced by now
13:11.33X-Fadecrown: Maybe next year there will be 20 maemo devices. We don't know.
13:11.51Khertangmail refresh button will died before the end of the week ... should stop waiting the maemo summit sponsorship email ..../
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13:12.14*** join/#maemo mtb_alive (n=daniel@soho64-34.sohonet.co.uk)
13:12.37crown@x-fade i was hear about maemo ealyer is there a possible way for a emulator like for android?
13:12.57X-Fadecrown: Opensource, anything is possible.
13:13.12X-Fadecrown: You just need to put in the time and effort..
13:13.16*** join/#maemo uzzed (n=alexandr@189.58.130.67)
13:13.21Jaffacrown: Someone has had Maemo 4 images running in an emulator like qemu - however, I think it was mostly a proof-of-concept rather than a practical development system
13:13.59X-FadeJaffa: Well if you take the ubuntu code you will probably have a small start already.
13:14.00lardman|homehrw iirc
13:14.09JaffaX-Fade: indeed.
13:15.05crown@jaffa for dev i saw a vm appliance based on ubuntu i just wanted to see the gui in real live ;)
13:15.11*** join/#maemo chenca (n=chenca@200.184.118.130)
13:15.17javispedroer... no.
13:15.26javispedroaw, sorry.
13:15.56X-Fadecrown: Well then you are out of luck. The SDK doesn't have the fancy UI.
13:16.10lcukjavispedro, if i push another update in a few hours, are you able to merge your bits and push again?
13:16.31javispedrothink so, but chances for me to mess duplicate ;)
13:16.34Jaffacrown: The SDK is a software development kit (duh); it's not a PC-based preview of Maemo 5
13:16.55javispedrolcuk: also, don't have much time, only about a quarter
13:17.18SpeedEvilThe DSP for the 900 - is there a SDK for that?
13:17.22SpeedEvilGCC/...
13:17.42lcukk
13:18.15*** join/#maemo ArSa (n=ArSa@nc-71-0-121-232.sta.embarqhsd.net)
13:18.20crown@x-fade , jaffa sure but there is a ui app i guess the same like on the n900 later called Hildon?
13:18.27lardman|homeSpeedEvil: yes there is, not GCC
13:18.45Jaffacrown: Sorry, your question doesn't make sense.
13:19.08Jaffacrown: You can run Hildon (Maemo's additions to Gtk+) apps on the SDK. You don't get the full desktop etc.
13:19.21Jaffa(i.e. the whizzy task switcher)
13:19.24*** join/#maemo jukey (n=jukey@kamiserver.de)
13:19.37JaffaHowever, we don't know if that'll be in the final SDK release "in a few weeks"
13:19.42crown@jaffa thx like i said iam new into this so sorry if my questions are a little ..umm stupid at first
13:20.09Jaffacrown: Not stupid; just incorrect ;-)
13:20.14JaffaBig difference.
13:20.21SpeedEvillardman: free - or a pay-compiler? C? url?
13:20.25crown@jaffa sure i try my best :D
13:20.43JaffaA stupid question is "Can I take Maemo and run it on my iPhone?" or "Can I run Windows 7 on the Nokia 770 I've just got off ebay?"
13:20.53SpeedEvilJaffa: see topic
13:20.58SpeedEvilno, no, no.
13:20.59SpeedEviloh
13:21.12SpeedEvilneeds to wake up more.
13:21.28crownso thx for answer my questions and cu later guys
13:22.53VDVsxJaffa, of course you can ;)
13:23.16lardman|homeSpeedEvil: free
13:23.24lardman|homeSpeedEvil: let me have a look for the url
13:24.44lardman|homehttp://omappedia.org/wiki/Main_Page  then DSPBridge should give you a link
13:24.56javispedrolol omappedia
13:25.08javispedrobtw, did I hear the A8 vfplite is slower than the arm11 vfp?
13:25.39lardman|homeSpeedEvil: right down the bottom: https://gforge.ti.com/gf/project/omapbridge/frs/
13:25.39javispedrothe pandora guys are talking all the time about how slow it is.
13:25.43SpeedEvillardman: many thanks
13:25.50lardman|homejavispedro: it's not pipelined or something iirc
13:26.18javispedroi guess they want to deprecate it and force us to neon?
13:26.25jrochaguys, here's a guide on how to install Vista in every machine, even a Maemo device: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbf9tOGwno
13:26.33lardman|homeSpeedEvil: hmm not sure it's on that page though
13:26.35jrochait also works for windows 7 I guess
13:26.55lardman|homeSpeedEvil: I seem to remember it being there, but it's certainly on the Ti website somewhere (no link to hand)
13:27.01SpeedEvillardman: np
13:27.06javispedrojrocha, you're lying, my n810 doesn't have that hole.
13:27.14javispedroI can't even put the instructions in there.
13:27.40javispedrowow 16500 comments.
13:27.44*** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)
13:27.52dnearyVDVsx: Ping?
13:27.58VDVsxdneary, pong
13:28.16SpeedEvilwishes again for 1995-free-with-scanner class OCR for linux.
13:28.28*** join/#maemo lopz (i=gentoo@unaffiliated/lopz)
13:28.45zerojay?
13:29.25dnearySpeedEvil: We have that
13:29.35zerojayWhy go back?
13:29.39SpeedEvilzerojay: There is no OCR for linux that is close to as good as what came free with my scanner in 1995.
13:29.41lopzhi
13:29.43dnearySpeedEvil: xsane has OCR that's even slightly better than that
13:29.44SpeedEvil(that I have found)
13:30.02kirmaNEON is problematic because it's not IEEE floating point compliant, and even when that doesn't exactly matter, it's just single precision when, for instance, python relies on double precision floats
13:30.05SpeedEvilAdmittedly it's been a couple of years since I looked - maybe it's changed.
13:30.20SpeedEvilgoes to look at xsanes plugins.
13:30.22*** join/#maemo alecrim (n=alecrim@201008190202.user.veloxzone.com.br)
13:30.25zerojayYeah, i think so.
13:30.31javispedrokirma, so, basically, we won't have good performing double floating point math in cortex-a8?
13:30.38kirmabut performance of VFP doesn't really matter for standard python code - other things dominate anyway.
13:31.08javispedroi wonder if the non-pipelined vfp has such a worsening effect or if it's all exaggeration.
13:31.14Corsacthere's tesseract
13:31.16SpeedEvildneary: last I looked at gocr it was close to useless. /me checks again.
13:31.17kirmaNEON is well performing floating point... but it's not quite a drop-in replacement for many things
13:31.49lardman|homeNEON is only single isn't it?
13:32.02kirmanon-pipelined VFP is probably non-issue if code is written in scripting language that's not JITted
13:32.16lardman|homeah yes, I see that above :)
13:32.22kirmasingle precision for floats, yes. it has other operation modes too though
13:32.32kirmabut not for floating point
13:32.46javispedroGCC does emit not seem to emit pipelined vfp friendly fp.
13:32.47kirmaand it doesn't really implement all IEEE semantics
13:32.57javispedroloading the results right after the operations themselves
13:33.08javispedro*pipelined vfp friendly code.
13:33.17kirmajavispedro: hmmmh. that seems "interesting"
13:33.38kirmaand not good. :I
13:33.38javispedrothat's why I though they're exagerating.
13:34.11dnearyVDVsx: Want to have a quick chat about outstanding talks?
13:34.11jrochaSpeedEvil, check out Tesseract OCR, it's pretty good
13:34.11lardman|homecan I access ranges of data in a Python string, e.g. s[1:10] ?
13:34.22dnearyI didn't move the lightning talks yesterday
13:34.37jrochaSpeedEvil, gocr is not close to useless, it's actually pretty good
13:34.51VDVsxdneary, sure
13:34.54kirmaother thing is that Cortex-A8 doesn't do out of order execution, so instruction scheduling is pretty critical. like not trying to access floating point values too early from VFP...
13:34.59dnearyVDVsx: Cool
13:35.38*** part/#maemo zerojay (n=zerojay@74.198.12.6)
13:36.03SpeedEviljrocha: Ok - it was close to useless the last time I tried it - a couple of years ago.
13:36.06SpeedEvilis compileing
13:36.50jrochaSpeedEvil, check my project OCRFeeder, you can use several OCR engines if you want, with it
13:37.39VDVsxdneary, about the LT's, we've to talk with the council and poke Anidel about the description of his LT
13:37.51SpeedEviljrocha: /me googles.
13:38.00*** join/#maemo guaka (n=guaka@conference/drupalcon/x-esvtomiigvbzlyqd)
13:38.03dnearytalk to the council?
13:38.07dnearyAbout which one?
13:38.10kirmabut anyway; if compiler is intelligent and floating point math is done in non-jitted scripting language such as (C)Python, using VFP and getting IEEE semantics shouldn't be a big performance problem. real issues start if one wants to do fast math on C or efficiently JITted bytecode
13:38.21dnearyVDVsx: Oh - I got our Saturday morning keynote
13:38.48dnearyNeed to confirm for sure, but it's a good one. Not specifically free software related, but really passionate
13:38.50VDVsxdneary, about the one's that will need sponsorship ;)
13:38.56dnearyAh
13:38.56kirmain that case, one has to pick either non-IEEE semantics or considerably lower performance than what NEON could provide for single-precision non-IEEE math.
13:39.07dnearyI don't think that affects *our* decision
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13:40.26VDVsxdneary, well, at least I would prefer to put 'safe' talks in the schedule, rather than remove them later :(
13:40.26jrochaSpeedEvil, in case you haven't found it yet: http://live.gnome.org/OCRFeeder
13:40.32javispedrokirma, hrm. :)
13:40.39SpeedEviljrocha: I did. - though I found the google source thingy
13:40.50dnearyVDVsx: For lightning talks I don't mind that much
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13:41.48SpeedEviljrocha: looks very shiny. I would like to evaluate it more - but at the moment I think I'm going to go to sleep. /me moved too many rocks yesterday.
13:42.23VDVsxdneary, anyway, we can move now 2 LT's, at least
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13:42.48VDVsxdneary, python-mafw and Feedhandler
13:43.33RST38hFolks, could somebody tell me where I apply to make a talk at the Summit?
13:43.33jrochaSpeedEvil, ok, see ya
13:43.46SpeedEvilthanks
13:43.50jrochaSpeedEvil, btw, I'm porting OCRFeeder to Fremantle
13:43.51RST38h(and, if you are interested in emulation, what would you like me to talk about)
13:43.55VDVsxbeats RST38h
13:43.59SpeedEviljrocha: now that would be fun.
13:44.22SpeedEviljrocha: automatically geotagged photos - with text automagically extracted and searchable
13:44.36VDVsxRST38h, http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009#Call_for_Content
13:44.44dnearyYes
13:44.51dnearyVDVsx: I think we can move the others too
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13:45.40wazdI just figured out genius idea for OMWEather!
13:45.54wazdjeez, it's awesome!
13:46.20VDVsxdneary, fine for me, I just don't want misconceptions :(
13:47.09dnearyOK
13:47.39dnearyI can contact accepted authors and add a note saying "NOTE: Acceptance as a lightning talk does not imply acceptance for a travel grant"
13:47.50jrochaSpeedEvil, my main goal is to use it with biz card
13:48.09jrochato make contacts out of business cards
13:48.13SpeedEviljrocha: that's good too. But streetsigns imagine.
13:48.26SpeedEvilhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2009-August/040675.html
13:48.29VDVsxdneary, that would be nice
13:48.34jrochaSpeedEvil, a photo tagged as "Stop" ? :D
13:48.39SpeedEviljrocha: yes.
13:48.45SpeedEviljrocha: hammertime!
13:49.14jrochaSpeedEvil, :)
13:49.25SpeedEviljrocha: Or more accurately. A photo tagged as 'stop' - geotagged at x,y - with a GPS trace attached - to aid in editing openstreetmap
13:49.42jrochaSpeedEvil, that sounds cool
13:49.51SpeedEviljrocha: Take a picture of a streetsign on an unnamed street - named street
13:50.03jrochahopefully tomorrow I'll be able to hack a bit more on porting OCRFeeder
13:50.29jrochaI hope I have enough to show a preview (you'd get it on maemo planet)
13:50.51SpeedEvilreally goes to sleep. :)
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13:53.04jrochaSpeedEvil, bye
13:53.07dnearyVDVsx: Done
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13:54.13javispedroi was thinking, do we have any opengl es 2 app in extras?
13:54.54X-Fadejavispedro: not that I know of.
13:55.08VDVsxdneary, forget to add them to the grid ? :P
13:55.10javispedrowould like to upload his "red triangle" test app, but would get killed :)
13:55.15dnearyVDVsx: Isn't Xournal a Fremantle Star?
13:55.23VDVsxdneary, nop
13:55.34dnearyah
13:56.05dnearyI used it recently to annotate a PDF - filling in a form I downloaded as a PDF from a government website, printing it just for a signature. It rocks
13:56.46VDVsxdneary, btw, you should have a mail from sampppa about the FS keynote
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13:57.01dneary"the FS keynote?"
13:57.11dnearyFremantle Stars
13:57.16VDVsxyup ;)
13:57.55dnearyAnd samppa is Sampo from eCoach?
13:58.00lcukyes dneary xournal is an important app
13:58.03lcukyes
13:59.30VDVsxdneary, yes
13:59.58RST38hbisects VDVsx with an Occam's blade
14:00.20dnearyok
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14:08.01dnearyVDVsx: Added also
14:08.06dnearyNow, about the outstandings
14:08.22dnearyIf we can agree on 2 NOs for any of them, I think we'll see more clearly
14:09.34dnearyWe should get back to the proposers of "how to speed up", "improve bluetooth" and "expanding the user base"
14:09.37dnearyI'll do that now
14:10.43*** join/#maemo sphenxes (n=sphenxes@85-127-168-250.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at)
14:11.33VDVsxdneary, well, we can agree on the 'yeses' first :)
14:11.40*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gateway.sunflowerbroadband.com)
14:13.23VDVsxbergie, ping
14:13.55slonopotamus~curse libcal devs for not using crc32 from zlib
14:13.56infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, libcal devs for not using crc32 from zlib !
14:14.27dnearyLet's see what space is left
14:14.50dneary4 "Users" slots
14:15.08dneary5 "App developer" slots
14:15.23dneary5 "platform" slots
14:15.25*** join/#maemo sphenxes (n=sphenxes@85-127-168-250.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at)
14:15.44dnearyNow - obvious (I think) yesses + their categories:
14:16.07dnearyCanola: Beyond media playback (User)
14:16.22dnearyPersonalise maemo5 (User)
14:16.38dnearyPublishing through maemo.org (App dev)
14:16.41*** join/#maemo lizardo (n=lizardo@189.2.128.130)
14:16.58dnearyHands-on Nokia Web Runtime -App dev)
14:17.09dnearyThat brings us to 2 user, 3 app dev
14:17.30dnearyWriting plug-ins for MAFW (platform)
14:18.17dneary2/3/4
14:18.41VDVsxdneary, there's also Texrat's submission (users)
14:18.51dnearyVDVsx: I'm interested in your opinion on 3 talks: safe browsing experience, browser for power users, and painless quality translations
14:19.21dnearyVDVsx: I was leaving that as a "maybe" for the moment
14:19.35dnearyI think that PySide should be put out of its misery & long wait, no
14:19.38slonopotamus'safe browsing experience'??? like, 'don't browse while crossing a street'?
14:19.47dnearyOr ask if he wants to give a lightning talk
14:20.00dnearyslonopotamus: It's a problem with the N900
14:20.18X-Fadedneary: pyside will probably be pretty important in the upcoming time.
14:20.24dnearyslonopotamus: You missed the announcement of collision detection hardware & software on the device?
14:20.29qwerty12_N810slonopotamus: No, "Don't load up porn while your wife is present in the room"
14:20.30Corsacslonopotamus: or put a condom on the n900?
14:20.31Stskeepswould like to highlight DVCS as a very upcoming theme
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14:20.47setantadneary, how long are the lightning talks?
14:20.50Stskeepsmore and more maemo stuff move to git and dvcs
14:20.50slonopotamusCorsac, !
14:20.50dnearyX-Fade: Perhaps, but there are several Qt and Python talks already
14:20.58dnearysetanta: 5 minutes
14:21.11VDVsxdneary, safe browsing experience and browser for power users are yeses for me, as I said in the wiki
14:21.55slonopotamus'browser for power user'... meh! gcc for power user!
14:21.58setantawow
14:22.00dnearyStskeeps: I'm not keen on more tools tutorials, given that we have a few already
14:22.16Corsachmhm, expansys has a price for the n900
14:22.24VDVsxdneary, if you have doubts, we can wait for Jamie, here
14:22.27*** join/#maemo mairas (n=mairas@84.239.150.238)
14:22.28Corsachttp://www.expansys.fr/d.aspx?i=187231 765e
14:22.29dnearyVDVsx: I mean, are you a definite yes to both? Or one or the other?
14:22.33Corsac*ouch*
14:22.49dnearyVDVsx: We'll definitely wait for Jamie on doubts, but I'm prepared to be convinced :)
14:22.57KhertanCorsac: bought it on nokia.fr it s "only" 650e + delivery
14:23.01Stskeepsdneary: fair enough - just keep in mind our community should move towards users of tools to create, not power users :)
14:23.31dnearyStskeeps: I'm not sure what that means (parse error)
14:23.56Corsacexpansys.es has it at 744
14:24.01VDVsxdneary, dneary, as I said one is 'intend' for user and the other for dev's (timeless)
14:24.07CorsacKhertan: already pre-ordered? :à
14:24.08Corsac:)
14:24.15KhertanCorsac: surely not ...
14:24.17timeless_mbp?
14:24.25kirmadid. but from nokia...
14:24.40CorsacKhertan: you said you bought it :/
14:24.52KhertanCorsac: too expensive for my wife ... so for me
14:24.56KhertanCorsac: i ve never said that
14:24.59dnearyVDVsx: I understand that
14:24.59VDVsxtimeless_mbp, you need to convince dneary about your submission ;)
14:25.24dnearyVDVsx: Do you think the presentations will have different people in the room?
14:25.28Khertanbut maybe in one year when price will be lower
14:25.31CorsacKhertan: you gave the impression:
14:25.32Corsac[16:22:57] (Khertan): Corsac: bought it on nokia.fr it s "only" 650e + delivery
14:25.40Corsacsorry I wrongly assumed that
14:26.09KhertanCorsac: ah hem sorry this is me ... i ve used wrong time for the verbs :)
14:26.15Stskeepsdneary: sorry. the curse of maemo.org is the fact that we rarely contribute back to whatever's opened :) and hence tool sessions are good for giving people the ability to contribute back. effectively moving maemo.org from being a lazy community to being a counterpart to internal development :)
14:26.22Khertandidn't speak very well english
14:26.31*** join/#maemo rkirti (n=oespirit@203.199.213.3)
14:26.43JaffaGetting kicked out :-(
14:26.49slonopotamusKhertan, s/did/does/
14:26.49slonopotamus:P
14:26.54Khertan:)
14:27.15VDVsxdneary, all depends on the 'demographic' of the summit attendees, but I would say yes
14:28.35dnearyStskeeps: Perhaps we're attracting the wrong type of person? (not familiar with tools, not a developer)?
14:28.48timeless_mbpdo note that my talk announcement is not specifically dev oriented
14:29.07dnearyVDVsx: First - do you agree with the 5 presentations I said were definite yesses?
14:29.40dnearyBecause that leaves us (before deciding on the browser slots et al) with 2 user slots, 3 app dev slots, 4 platform slots
14:29.42VDVsxdneary, yes
14:29.46timeless_mbpVDVsx: well um
14:29.48timeless_mbpshrugs
14:29.53kirmaverkkokauppa.com (finnish web shop that *might* deliver outside .fi, but probably just the fi keyboard layout) lists N900 at 589.90 euros
14:29.58timeless_mbpeither someone sends for me to go and schedules a slot for me
14:30.00Stskeepsdneary: we are attracting the people but they have little ability to get into the tools of the trade :) nm though - just keep git in mind / dvcs work - very very important theme :)
14:30.05timeless_mbpor they don't, and i definitely do not show up
14:30.08kirma10.10 euros less than nokia here
14:30.17timeless_mbpyou guys better figure it out soon though
14:30.33timeless_mbpi have to arrange my flight stuff and vacation destinations
14:30.41timeless_mbpso far everyone's jerking my chain
14:30.49timeless_mbpwhich is hardly enjoyable
14:31.06dnearyVDVsx: It's a bit hard to follow our conversation with the side conversations going on
14:31.14dnearyWant to move to #maemo-meeting for a minute?
14:31.22VDVsxdneary, sure
14:31.47*** join/#maemo fiferboy (n=quassel@216.185.81.34)
14:33.26Corsacmhmh, what's that stuff about mms support?
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14:41.04Natanaielis nokia n900 cellphone or internet tablet?
14:41.11*** join/#maemo felipec (n=felipec@a88-113-6-122.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
14:42.14javispedroNatanaiel: http://maemo.nokia.com/features/phone/
14:42.47javispedro[sig]
14:46.18Corsachmhm yeah, doesn't seem to support sending/receiving mms
14:46.23mgedminthinks lcuk and lardman will like this: http://pyre.third-bit.com/blog/archives/2893.html
14:46.47RST38hmgedmin: bacon?
14:46.54mgedmintactical bacon!
14:47.05RST38hbacon.
14:47.15*** join/#maemo nikneym (n=asd@88.243.153.188)
14:48.08lcukmmmmmmm
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14:50.22slonopotamus...
14:50.26slonopotamusjust crap
14:50.34slonopotamusi make crc32work
14:50.40slonopotamuss/2/2 /
14:50.48*** part/#maemo nikneym (n=asd@88.243.153.188)
14:50.50slonopotamus*made
14:51.02slonopotamusthere's more than one crc32 :/
14:51.32Stskeepsslonopotamus: neat
14:52.01slonopotamusat least there's one in zlib and one developed  by Gary S. Brown. and their results don't match
14:52.11slonopotamuslibcal uses one by Gary S. Brown
14:52.15*** join/#maemo blassey1 (n=blassey@71.232.22.29)
14:52.24slonopotamuswhoever he is
14:54.04slonopotamusand i was using zlib one, of course
14:55.48slonopotamus~curse everyone who makes incompatible things and gives them same name
14:55.49infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, everyone who makes incompatible things and gives them same name !
14:56.03timeless_mbpslonopotamus: is there really more than one crc32?
14:56.17slonopotamustimeless_mbp, i just said it.
14:56.31slonopotamustimeless_mbp, yes, more than one
14:57.13slonopotamussame algorithm, but different parameters
14:58.34slonopotamuswtf is 'Nokia Web Runtime'?
14:58.47timeless_mbpgarbage (tm)
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14:59.36slonopotamusmafw too?
14:59.48timeless_mbpbasically NWR a collection of extremely shitting apis
14:59.58timeless_mbpwhich nokia is adding to a Webkit base
15:00.12timeless_mbpand then marketing as a savior for something
15:00.23timeless_mbpexcept nokia is also offering Qt as their solution for everything
15:00.33timeless_mbpit's unclear which of those two is truly doomed
15:00.46slonopotamusi see. can't say browser is a best thing for ui
15:00.52timeless_mbpwell
15:01.05timeless_mbpsbrowser/nokia/
15:01.06timeless_mbp:)
15:01.29*** join/#maemo mandara (n=Milos@92.36.235.4)
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15:07.40RST38hhas filtered out all email in Chinese about a year ago. He is no ready to filter out all email in Russian.
15:07.46RST38hs/no/now
15:07.59*** part/#maemo zerojay (n=zerojay@74.198.12.6)
15:08.01RST38hEpic volumes of spam.
15:09.19Firebirdonly gets emails in english
15:10.00SpeedEvilonce got 30 million spams in a week.
15:10.43SpeedEvilBack in the day - shortly after green-card - I started posting to usenet with a per-message email address. This was fine - my ISP allowed me as many email addresses as I liked.
15:11.03*** join/#maemo jasuarez (n=user@97.Red-83-56-158.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
15:11.13RST38hSpeed: Let me guess... AOL? =)
15:11.39SpeedEvilSome 10000 messages later someone decided to start sending out forged emails for mortgage spam. - and chose the first 10000 addresses on their list (or so) to use as sender addresses.
15:11.47SpeedEvilI got a _lot_ of bounces. :)
15:11.56mgedminwould like to filter out all the messages in Russian, if /me could figure out how to to that with procmail
15:11.57RST38hevil
15:12.07RST38hmgedmin: Need help? It is real easy
15:12.24mgedminprocmail is rarely easy ;)
15:12.28RST38hmgedmin: it IS easy
15:12.38mgedminno harder than quantum physics, I'm sure
15:12.45RST38hmgedmin: Do you have your .forward and .procmailrc in place already?
15:12.48mgedminyes I do
15:13.05tlaxis reading Introduction to Quantum Mechanics
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15:13.33RST38hOk, open your .procmrailrc in an editor and add these lines:
15:13.43RST38h<PROTECTED>
15:13.52RST38h<PROTECTED>
15:14.03RST38h<PROTECTED>
15:14.06mgedminwow
15:14.14RST38hThis will kill off all messages with cp1251 subjects
15:14.22mgedminyou know, it never occurred to me that people were still using non-utf-8 in emails
15:14.35RST38hdo not put spaces at the beginning, I added them to prevent irc from acting up on /
15:14.51mgedminI thought I'd have to carve up regexps to detect unicode characters in the cyrillic range encoded in UTF-8 and then in MIME quoted printable
15:14.55RST38hmgedmin: never occurred to med why people would use utf-8 really
15:15.21mgedminknows how to say / in irc
15:15.23mgedmin/
15:15.27RST38hOk, let us take care of messages with cyrillic bodies now, I will have to look up an example of one
15:15.35Firebird/
15:15.43mgedmin/quit even
15:15.44qwerty12_N810/
15:16.48*** join/#maemo jeremiah_ (n=jeremiah@c83-248-143-10.bredband.comhem.se)
15:17.12javispedroreads some crazy one talking about n64 emulation possible on the wiz
15:17.23*** part/#maemo jasuarez (n=user@97.Red-83-56-158.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
15:17.34javispedrowhich is even nearer to the n8x0 hardware.
15:17.35RST38hjavis: possible but unplayable
15:18.03RST38hjavis: I submitted a presentation to the summit about emulation on mobile devices. if you want me to cover something specific let me know
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15:18.25javispedroRST38h, unless you have alergy to these kind of forums (I would understand ;) ) check this: http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?/topic/49358-mupen64plus/
15:18.58RST38hmgedmin: For 1251 bodies:
15:19.07javispedrospecially later talks in the 2nd and 3rd pages.
15:19.09mgedminmatch against content-type, I suspect
15:19.15mgedminRST38h: thanks
15:19.30slonopotamusStskeeps, suppose you're reading blocks from CAL and encounter crc error. what you'd do?
15:19.31RST38h<PROTECTED>
15:19.40RST38hmgedmin: rest of the lines will be the same
15:19.53mgedminwoohoo, I'm getting spam in koi8-r !
15:20.11slonopotamusStskeeps, i'm thinking about adding --force flag, without what it'll just stop.
15:20.22RST38hmgedmin: same method although I would not block koi8. Some normal person may write me something in Russian
15:20.55slonopotamusRST38h, those morons who still use The Bat? :)
15:21.10SpeedEvilhas some of those. http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/3857180629/in/set-72157622145515654/
15:21.17SpeedEvilMore than 8 though.
15:22.56RST38hslonopotamus: or PINE like myself
15:23.21slonopotamusRST38h, it doesn't support utf? :/
15:23.23RST38hslonopotamus: or have enough brains to reconfigure Outlook (which spambots can't do)
15:23.30RST38hslono: Apparently not
15:23.52RST38hBesides, damn utf tends to get mangled by some mailservers, even after all this time
15:23.58slonopotamuserr... how do you read utf mails then? iconv? :)
15:24.19RST38hI do not =) When in the rare cases when I do, I bounce them to gmail :)
15:24.26RST38hs/When/Well\
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15:24.39mgedminmutt supports charset conversion very nicely
15:24.42mgedminfeels superior
15:24.52javispedroheh. The Palm VersaMail client wasn't capable of utf8, in 2005.
15:25.00mgedminmy horse-drawn buggy is fancier than your horse-drawn buggy
15:25.08mgedminwho cares about those 'automobile' things anyway
15:25.11RST38hah, mutt vs pine... we have not yet tried this particular flamewar have we?
15:25.11mgedminit's a passing fad
15:25.18mgedminnot here :)
15:25.30RST38hfirst time for everything...
15:25.33mgedminis either ported to maemo?
15:25.38RST38hpine was afaik
15:25.40slonopotamusmgedmin, and buggier?
15:26.18RST38hall right, time to go home
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15:28.56ShadowJKHeh, n900 screen protectors already
15:30.28AStormwhere and how good are they?
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15:32.08ShadowJKAh it's preorder too
15:32.30SpeedEvilAll you need to do is to cut to size...
15:33.13clintctrying to update n800 to RX-34_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin with flasher-3.0-static and having trouble
15:34.14clintcflasher sees device then bails out with a Version of 'sw-release': <no version>
15:35.41clintcflasher bails out with this command: sudo ./flasher-3.0-static -f RX-34_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin
15:36.16mgedminclintc: you're telling it _where_ the fiasco image is, but not actually telling it to _do_ anything with it
15:36.23qwerty12_N810Hint: You want an "-F" there, too
15:36.32mgedminclintc: sudo ./flasher-3.0-static -f *.bin -F -R
15:36.37inzmgedmin, the other way round, right?
15:36.39mgedmin-R is optional
15:36.53inzmgedmin, telling to flash but not where the image is
15:36.54mgedmininz is right
15:37.09mgedmin-f -F *.bin -R
15:37.26mgedminbeen ages since I last flashed
15:37.28mgedminyay SSU
15:37.31clintcah ha, I did not look at the command pas the image ... <redface>, thanks!
15:37.38mgedmin(what does it stand for, again?)
15:37.39inzIt's been a while, but with the dozens of flashes I've done, I should remember
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15:39.53clintcflash is no proceeding, thanks again
15:40.01clintcc/no/now
15:45.46bergieVDVsx: pong
15:46.49VDVsxbergie, can on comment, please: http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo_Summit_2009/Submissions#Midgard2:_Content_repository_for_your_tablet_and_the_web
15:47.00VDVsx*can you
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15:47.07bergieVDVsx: sure, what do you want to know?
15:47.25bergieah, yes I see
15:47.31bergieok, I'll write something there
15:47.51VDVsxbergie, thanks ;)
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15:50.11AStormSpeedEvil: but the cut protector has to be transparent too
15:50.19AStormand resistive-ready
15:50.21AStorm:)
15:50.24SpeedEvilAStorm: err - no
15:50.42SpeedEvilAStorm: it just has to be transparent - there is no such thing as resistive ready
15:51.27SpeedEvilthe resistive touchscreen works by the insides of the touchscreen touching together. The outside is just plastic
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15:57.21AStormSpeedEvil: yeah
15:57.33AStormthe trick is to not be too thick and tough
15:57.48AStormand so that the protector doesn't scratch enough
15:57.48SpeedEvilyeah - and a silicone layer on the back to do the attachment
15:58.00AStormwhy not
15:58.04AStormas long as it's transparent
15:58.29SpeedEvilthe silicone is the 'gel' that's on the back - it means you can easily remove without damage - but put on without bubbles
15:58.30ShadowJKSpeedevil: that paper you linked yesterday.. Looks like the author(s) only show why a 'FlashVM' is needed, and how it should behave towards the storage, but nothing about how or where such a thing would be implemented
15:58.37SpeedEvilShadowJK: yeah
15:59.05SpeedEvilShadowJK: If you implement it, I will give you one shiny pebble.
15:59.10SpeedEvilAnd be very grateful.
15:59.17ShadowJKis at work atm and only slightly idle, i might vanish at any time
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16:00.36SpeedEvilIt looks like the basic argument is to stop the swap pages going through the normal disk subsystems - but very direct.
16:00.48SpeedEvilWhich is probably sane - but complex
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16:03.39ShadowJKThe most important part is the sequential writes
16:03.50*** join/#maemo blade_runner (n=arezende@189.2.128.130)
16:04.06ShadowJKThe rest only matter if you had a fast sata ssd
16:04.30ShadowJKSwap already bypasses filesystem partially
16:04.48ShadowJKi wonder.. Does swap on loop work at all?
16:04.50SpeedEvilI mean the ordering and stuff
16:04.52SpeedEvilyes
16:05.01SpeedEvilI used swap on cryptoloop for some years
16:05.19SpeedEvilAnd the consolidation.
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16:05.34SpeedEvilYou don't want to do that - just blast it out to the next block
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16:07.48*** join/#maemo paperclip1 (n=Stanley@246.120.0-93.rev.gaoland.net)
16:07.51ShadowJKas long as there is a whole 512k block free
16:08.37ShadowJKDon't get your hopes up btw. i dunno anything about how to do anything in kernel
16:08.53ShadowJKAnd I suffer from chronic shortage of spare time
16:13.51lardman|homederf: your zbar is segfaulting on me
16:14.34derfD'og.
16:14.41derfGot a bt?
16:15.17lardman|homeno, can I get one easily running it through python?
16:15.39lardman|homejust importing it segfaults
16:15.50*** join/#maemo pH5 (n=ph5@e178228192.adsl.alicedsl.de)
16:16.02derfI have absolutely no idea.
16:16.05*** join/#maemo mlpug (n=mlpug@a88-115-164-40.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
16:16.21derf"Just importing it" sounds like you should be talking to spadix.
16:16.25lardman|homeI'll have to build one of the test programs and see what happens
16:16.26lardman|homeyeah
16:16.34GeneralAntillesis going offline for a while.
16:16.35derfHe doesn't do IRC much, but he's pretty responsive by e-mail.
16:16.37GeneralAntillesLater.
16:16.40lardman|homehe said he was going to crack on with getting the QR stuff integrated
16:17.07lardman|homeI was talking to him earlier on #zbar
16:18.06derfOh, I didn't even realize there was one.
16:18.32lardman|homenor did I until today
16:28.26*** join/#maemo MaceN8x0 (n=macer@rancorous.net)
16:28.48dnearylbt: Ping?
16:28.53dnearyAre you Lub Bhyet?
16:29.04lbtme?
16:29.19lbtno
16:29.39lbthttp://maemo.org/profile/view/lbt/
16:30.09lardman|homehow can I extract every other letter in a python string?
16:30.21lbtconvert to utf16
16:30.47lbts/.(.)/$1/g
16:31.12lbts/(.)./$1/g
16:31.21lardman|homecan I not access the string like an array and use a slice?
16:31.44lbtis a perl guy at heart .... shhh
16:31.51*** join/#maemo wazd_ (n=Miranda@gwh-1-22-val21.ln.rinet.ru)
16:31.51lardman|home:)
16:32.19Stskeepswb wazd_
16:33.51mgedminlardman|home: yes you can: a_string[::2]
16:34.07mgedminand for the other half of letters, use a_string[1::2]
16:34.27mgedminnow as to _why_ would anyone want to do that, I'm curious
16:34.55*** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=slonopot@80.90.124.131)
16:39.16kirmagets intrigued of PyPy JIT possibilities on N900... Cortex-A8 has ThumbEE mode, that has specific instructions helping general-purpose JITs with NULL checks and such...
16:41.06AStormkirma: not as much as you'd think
16:43.14*** join/#maemo TheJere (n=TheJere@83.134.219.146)
16:43.42AStormhates bug trackers which require login for search
16:44.01mgedminis intrigued by PyPy's multiple possibilities, such as mmappable .pyc files, but thinks any practical use out of pypy is still several years in the future
16:48.33*** join/#maemo rektide (i=rektide@204.11.35.230)
16:48.47rektidedoes maemo5's wm use clutter as well ?
16:49.53StskeepsVDVsx: mer from a user's perspective lists andrei as speaker but it's tomasz
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16:53.25VDVsxStskeeps, thanks, gonna fix that
16:54.07Stskeepshm, seems fixed now
16:54.13VDVsxStskeeps, yup
16:54.43VDVsxStskeeps, andrei did it ;)
16:55.36Stskeepshehe
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16:59.35lardman|homemgedmin: the data from the camera is passed back in a string
16:59.43mgedminooh, fun!
16:59.52mgedminthe struct module may be useful for decoding it
16:59.57lardman|homemgedmin: I want the Y and to ignore the UV, and the encoding just so happens to mean that every other 8bits is what I want
16:59.59mgedminespecially if it has 16-bit values
17:00.14mgedmincool
17:00.17lardman|homehmm, that's a good point
17:00.29mgedmindunno how useful (or fast) struct is with arrays
17:00.33mgedminnumpy may be good
17:00.42lardman|homeanyway I tried that syntax, but was told off by the interpreter
17:00.49mgedminwell, if you wanted to do image processing, numpy would definitely be good
17:00.56mgedmintold off? how?
17:01.04lardman|homeTypeError: sequence index must be integer, not 'slice'
17:01.21mgedminare you sure you're getting back a string?
17:01.29mgedminbecause it looks like a custom type that doesn't support slicing
17:01.57lardman|homeyeah, well this is what I was going from iirc: http://test.maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_camera_api_bora.html#camera_python
17:02.14lardman|home# By the way, the buffer is received as a Python string
17:02.31mgedmintry print type(buffer)
17:02.54mgedminyou'll see if the documentation lied to you or not
17:03.20lardman|homeok, thanks
17:04.37lardman|homehmm, <type 'gst.Buffer'>
17:05.55*** join/#maemo andre__ (n=andre@g1.blanicka25.net)
17:06.39lardman|homeis str() the conversion to a string?
17:07.16*** join/#maemo alecrim (n=alecrim@189.2.128.130)
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17:12.34lardman|homeok that works, converting it to a proper string with str()
17:14.37timeless_mbpsp3000: ping
17:15.59sp3000sup
17:17.46*** part/#maemo wjt (n=will@unaffiliated/resiak)
17:19.10*** join/#maemo wjt (n=will@unaffiliated/resiak)
17:21.33RST38hreMoo
17:25.37timeless_mbpdid you just get an sms?
17:27.47*** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net)
17:27.59*** join/#maemo zap (n=zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net)
17:28.33javispedrobtw, somebody already registered a new h-i-m plugin in garage: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/tappy/
17:30.21*** join/#maemo trofi (n=slyfox@93.84.107.143)
17:32.38Stskeepsfor n900?
17:33.38*** join/#maemo sphenxes (n=sphenxes@85-127-168-250.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at)
17:33.39javispedroStskeeps: the description says "portrait mode" so I'd guess so.
17:34.30timeless_mbpdoes anyone know him?
17:34.59javispedroI do not; it has published some code so I think he's serious.
17:35.02javispedro*he.
17:35.02timeless_mbpgoogle basically says "yes, he's a russian"
17:35.47timeless_mbpno license in the SCM afaict
17:36.14timeless_mbpyay, more crashy im code
17:36.32timeless_mbpcould we please stop letting people who can't write safe code write im modules?
17:36.34*** join/#maemo setanta (n=setanta@200.184.118.130)
17:36.34timeless_mbp<PROTECTED>
17:36.44timeless_mbpfrom the "i don't know C" highlights real
17:36.51timeless_mbps/real/reel/
17:37.19timeless_mbpoh cute
17:37.25timeless_mbpand it reallocs each time
17:37.26timeless_mbpnice
17:37.46timeless_mbpfrom the "who cares about performance in code everyone uses" highlights
17:38.05javispedrotimeless: I hope you stay away from my libicd-network-wpa code :)
17:38.18timeless_mbpshrugs
17:38.21*** join/#maemo felipec (n=felipec@a91-153-253-80.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
17:38.30timeless_mbpdo you want to improve your code quality?
17:38.35RST38hok, I have found more info on the HIM plugin guy
17:38.40javispedrono, I want it to work.
17:38.42timeless_mbpsome people try to improve their spoken/written language
17:38.45javispedrowhich already does.
17:38.46javispedro:)
17:38.54timeless_mbpsells javispedro an "it"
17:39.22mgedminthat's scary code
17:39.56javispedrogoes see bugzilla to see if missing PAP support was FiF
17:40.06timeless_mbphis Keyboard class also leaks his layouts array
17:40.12RST38hHe is a Motorola hacker
17:40.18timeless_mbpRST38h: really?
17:40.20timeless_mbpinteresting
17:40.35Firebirdcan't remember how to find a point a set distance away, perpendicular to a line
17:40.36timeless_mbpfwiw, i'm not saying we don't need a halfscreen keyboard
17:40.40timeless_mbpthe browser team desperately wants it
17:40.44VDVsxSamba is also registered at garage ;)
17:40.52RST38hAnd a Palm hacker
17:41.02javispedrod'oh
17:41.07timeless_mbpbut IMs have a history of crashing apps
17:41.13timeless_mbpand when they die, very bad things happen
17:41.26*** join/#maemo rmt (n=rmt@77-21-86-215-dynip.superkabel.de)
17:41.49timeless_mbpmgedmin: https://garage.maemo.org/svn/tappy/LayoutSwitchKey.cpp
17:41.55timeless_mbp<PROTECTED>
17:41.59timeless_mbp<PROTECTED>
17:41.59Luke-Jrwhat's a halfscreen keyboard?
17:42.05javispedroargh.
17:42.06timeless_mbpfrom the "I don't speak C++"
17:42.08timeless_mbpcategory
17:42.18javispedroI think that's the "I know better" category.
17:42.18VDVsxnice name: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/bullshitbingo/ ;)
17:42.34Luke-Jrlearned the hard way that malloc/free and new/delete don't mix
17:42.36SpeedEvilFirebird: there are an infinity of points
17:42.48SpeedEvilFirebird: do you mean normal to the middle of a line?
17:42.49timeless_mbpVDVsx: is that in extras?
17:42.53timeless_mbpi need it by tomorrow
17:43.16FirebirdSpeedEvil, trying to find a point that is 1 pixel away and perpendicular to a line
17:43.18slonopotamusso
17:43.24VDVsxtimeless_mbp, guess not, just registered at garage :)
17:43.29slonopotamustimeless_mbp, you're kinda qa?
17:43.31javispedrowatches qgil say "planed for harmattan" and decides to upload libicd-network-wpa to garage.
17:43.32timeless_mbpLuke-Jr / javispedro : so, do either of you want to give that guy some help?
17:43.38timeless_mbpslonopotamus: i can do anything
17:43.49Luke-Jrwho? what?
17:43.53timeless_mbpi can stand in for coverity
17:43.57timeless_mbpi can stand in for qa
17:44.02timeless_mbpi can stand in for management
17:44.07timeless_mbp(when i do that, i just say "no")
17:44.14Luke-Jrlol
17:44.21timeless_mbpthat's my favorite... someone says "We need to do X". I "just say No!"
17:44.22slonopotamushehe
17:44.23mgedminis there a site like thedailywtf that is not so windows-centric?
17:44.30Firebirdprods tiagofalcao
17:44.33*** join/#maemo igagis (n=igagis@ns2.vsev.lanck.net)
17:44.47timeless_mbpi can stand in for localizers
17:44.50VDVsxtimeless_mbp, you have .deb's here: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=1028
17:44.59timeless_mbpVDVsx: yeah, i saw
17:45.07timeless_mbpi'd rather install from extras :)
17:45.31timeless_mbpanyway... i need to finish translating fingrish
17:45.41timeless_mbpi'm really close to done
17:45.45Luke-Jrtimeless_mbp: who are we helpign with what?
17:45.57RST38hTV shows a relaxing pseudo-documentary about the eventual death of human artifacts once humanity dies out
17:45.58timeless_mbpLuke-Jr: the russian im guy
17:46.03timeless_mbpwith basic C and C++
17:46.08Luke-Jroh
17:46.10timeless_mbpthings like "new and free don't mix"
17:46.18timeless_mbpand "realloc is not a normal function, you have to pay attention"
17:46.24Luke-Jrit's not? O.o
17:46.26timeless_mbpand "please don't crash when you run out of memory"
17:46.33RST38hwonders if this wonderful piece of tv programming is paid off by the Tentacled One
17:46.42Luke-Jrspeaking of which, is there a C++ equivalent to realloc?
17:47.32RST38hLuke: no
17:47.38*** join/#maemo Macer (n=mace@rancorous.net)
17:47.45RST38hin fact, I would suggest against using realloc in C
17:47.46timeless_mbpLuke-Jr: using a vector class that does the right thing automatically?
17:47.50FirebirdSpeedEvil, ignore the bad hand writing >_>, http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/1211/examplep.jpg
17:47.58Luke-Jrtimeless_mbp: at what cost? ;)
17:48.06timeless_mbpLuke-Jr: not ****ing up?
17:48.10simulaheh
17:48.20javispedroheh, I'd prefer to let the guy make a public announcement first.
17:48.27Macerirssi says Lag: 3.66
17:48.30Macerhaha
17:48.31mgedminremembers an article in Dr. Dobb's about "checking malloc() return value is pointless; all OSes overcommit and you get page faults when OOM happens"
17:48.35Macerthat's rather exact
17:48.36slonopotamusif you're out of mem, your app is likely to be killed by oom killer anyway
17:48.42javispedropolishing the code before public announcements is something I used to do.
17:48.42timeless_mbpmgedmin: which is BS
17:48.47ShadowJKOpenbsd's malloc implementation has a knob that makes every realloc() use memmove() :)
17:48.48timeless_mbpwindows will gladly return 0
17:49.21SpeedEvil(afk - eating ##math or wait)
17:49.28Luke-Jrmgedmin: you can't bet on that though ;)
17:49.33timeless_mbpShadowJK: what, it asserts that people don't expect the pointer to change location?
17:49.37javispedrotimeless, yeah, but as slonopotamus said, once malloc returns 0 it's just a few seconds until OoM kills you
17:49.46mgedmindid not mean to imply that he agreed with that article
17:49.46timeless_mbpjavispedro: BS
17:49.49javispedroso, unless you're writing system code..
17:49.52Luke-Jrif you could, just malloc(100 MB) for everything and let the OS sort out sizes ;)
17:49.53javispedroor prio code...
17:49.55ShadowJKTimeless: no it defragments the heap! ;)
17:50.18timeless_mbpjavispedro: really, i've run windows on systems and reached 0 free
17:50.22timeless_mbpmy apps did not generally die
17:50.27javispedrowindows has a OoM killer?
17:50.31suihkulokkijavispedro: if you are spaping heavily, the few seconds could be few hours :P
17:50.31timeless_mbpthere were some kernel modules that were not so lucky
17:50.36timeless_mbpbut those were bugs
17:50.43timeless_mbp(not microsoft modules)
17:51.01timeless_mbpwell, there was one terminal services module which was buggy, but the os didn't die
17:51.05timeless_mbpjust the service :)
17:51.08Luke-JrLinux's OOM killer can be disabled as well
17:51.19timeless_mbpand really should be
17:51.21javispedroat least, in the pieces of code I'm currently touching (not mine's), usually the OoM kills the process even before mallocs returning 0.
17:51.25Luke-JrI think OpenVZ disables it
17:51.26timeless_mbpotherwise ... well, just wait for your n900
17:51.26RST38hmgedmin: overcommit is mainly Linux "feature"
17:51.31Luke-Jrand returns 0 instead of overcommitting
17:51.32timeless_mbpthen you can enjoy swapping to death
17:51.38RST38hmgedmin: Windows returns 0
17:51.42ShadowJKAnd if you disable overcomitt entirely you'll get 0 way before oom
17:52.02javispedrois used to PalmOS. Out of memory was a fatal condition. Malloc did not return 0, it crashed right away.
17:52.09ShadowJKOn tablet swapping to SD is so slow the watchdog kills you before you run out :)
17:52.09Luke-JrO.o;;
17:52.17derfRST38h: Overcommit is a feature of every fork-based Unix.
17:52.24derfExcept Solaris.
17:52.29Luke-Jractually, I thought in most cases Windows would increase swap file size and use it
17:52.31timeless_mbpderf: optional
17:52.36RST38hderf: yea, but not Windows it seems
17:52.44mgedminwonders if the N900 will come with a factory-configured swap file of 768 MiB
17:52.46slonopotamusLuke-Jr, you can disable it
17:52.49timeless_mbpLuke-Jr: what windows actually does is slightly differently
17:52.55RST38hderf: And even on Unix, Maemo is the first system that I have seen using it on regular basis
17:53.00timeless_mbpit will pause a userspace app while it tries to grow the swap file
17:53.03derfSolaris will happily fail to exec ls if the parent process is using half the RAM.
17:53.07timeless_mbpbut kernelland stuff don't get that
17:53.10timeless_mbpthey just have to deal
17:53.12RST38hderf: probably just isn't enabled in regular unix desktops or something
17:53.12ShadowJKRst38h: using what?
17:53.27slonopotamustimeless_mbp, so, can you tell me, what's bad in my code? http://git.slonopotamus.org/?p=opendsme;a=blob;f=src/libopencal.c;hb=HEAD
17:53.27derf(or at least it would until they re-implemented exec to use their own custom vfork syscall)
17:53.28RST38hShadow: you will laugh
17:53.29timeless_mbpovercommit
17:54.01derfRST38h: Overcommit is definitely enabled by default.
17:54.10Luke-Jrderf: exec doesn't fork ;)
17:54.12ShadowJKOvercommit is enabled by default on linux
17:54.24derfIn fact, IIRC the documentation warns you against Very Bad Things if you disable it.
17:54.32Luke-Jrderf: and you're talking about CoW more than overcommit I think
17:54.32RST38hhas not used Linux until he was forced to use Linux to install Maemo SDK
17:54.50RST38hShadow: Maemo File Dialog grossly overcommits
17:54.59RST38hShadow: Asks for 110MB+
17:55.09RST38hShadow: Actually, there is a tracker for that :)
17:55.25javispedrowow, you remember the bug# or keywords, RST38h?
17:55.43RST38ha moment
17:56.38javispedroonce tried to benchmark memory usage of java vms.. until realizing that the first time he called a hildon file dialog memory went +100MiB up.
17:56.53javispedrosomething his "benchmark" was doing.
17:57.16RST38hno
17:57.42javispedronp, i'll search if i am later interested :)
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17:59.02RST38hjavis: No, cannot locate it :(
17:59.09derfLuke-Jr: It's the same mechanism used to do both.
17:59.53RST38hSurvey Reveals Consumers Don't Want To Pay More Than $99 For An eReader
18:00.01RST38h(anybody surprised?)
18:00.10derfI'm surprised anyone wants an eReader.
18:00.16javispedroTotally useful survey.
18:00.36derfI thought we lived in an age of "general purpose" computing.
18:00.38javispedroSurvey Reveals Consumer Would Want The eReader Only If Given For Free.
18:00.50javispedrothere! and I didn't do any research.
18:01.19RST38hderf: If you give me a general purpose computer that is 0.25" thick, weights 100g, and presents me with a book-sized screen, I am all for it
18:01.29RST38hderf: Oh, do not forget 1-week battery life
18:01.45RST38hderf: Before that happens, I want a book reader. Or, rather, a plain book :)
18:01.46javispedrothe eReader gets such battery life?
18:01.54RST38hgets longer
18:02.04RST38hit only spends power when turning pages
18:02.04javispedrolast time I saw, they were not even entering any kind of power save mode between page flips.
18:02.16RST38hsupposed too
18:02.20derfI'll just take an Nxx0, thanks.
18:02.47javispedrojust put a custom os on it, it's one of the appliances that is screaming for it.
18:02.55javispedroand _shut_ the cpu down between page flips.
18:03.12javispedroand remove the power button.
18:04.17simulaif the screen is active, a power button is good :)
18:04.23*** join/#maemo madhav (n=Administ@122.172.15.209)
18:04.51javispedroit's only there to avoid user confusion. the screen requires no power at all, can keep the image for a few months.
18:05.11javispedro(and, of course, to power on/off the totally useless linux computer that comes with the reader, wasting power)
18:05.25simulaok, not an active screen... sounds good
18:05.54javispedroyeah, if we're talking about the Sony eReader, which uses eInk,.
18:10.18pillarI am just trying to port qt app for maemo which uses network connection. I got it running on scratchbox, but the network connection is really slow. I am wondering whether it is a feature or something wrong? It does create an error message in scratchbox: QMaemoInternetConnectivity has received an error message. Name: "org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown" Message:  "The name com.nokia.icd was not provided by any .service files"
18:11.19javispedrowonders when will Nokia oss icd2.
18:14.44*** join/#maemo slonopotamus_ (n=slonopot@80.90.124.131)
18:14.45mgedminisn't Nokia killing icd2 and replacing it with connman?
18:14.59javispedromgedmin, not in fremantle at least.
18:15.38Maceryawn
18:15.44javispedropillar, the dbus warning message "is a feature". The slowness, that I don't know.
18:16.58pillarjavis, ok - just wondering since I have a 110mbit connection and 4kb get request takes like 5-10 seconds..
18:18.53Macerhm
18:19.33slonopotamus_timeless_mbp, suddenly got disconnected :/
18:20.39Macerhaha
18:20.44Maceri'm watching lazytown with my son
18:20.53Macerand they show a configure script running when he says "compile"
18:20.59mgedminoooh
18:21.56javispedroheh
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18:24.25johnsqHi
18:25.33slonopotamus_johnsq, hi! how's gentoo + mp3?
18:26.01johnsqslonopotamus_: I don't know, not time to look.
18:26.09johnsqs/not/no/
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18:34.00Macerwel. i updated my opensolaris server and it stopped randomly freezing
18:34.04Macerguess it was a software bug
18:34.17Maceri don't even know what was causing it
18:35.08Luke-JrOMFG
18:35.15Luke-Jrjust typed on my Zaurus to shut it down for the move
18:35.35Stskeepsand you wrote killall humans?
18:35.38Luke-Jrno
18:35.39Macerhaha
18:35.41Luke-JrI'm just in awe
18:35.44Luke-Jrof the awesome keyboard
18:35.52Luke-JrI wish I could use it for my N810
18:35.54Luke-Jr☹
18:37.00Stskeepssynergy?
18:37.11Luke-Jrseriously, Zaurus kb is good enough I could forget my desktop
18:37.25MacerLuke-Jr: the n810 kb is horrible
18:37.26Macer:)
18:37.32Macerwhat kind of zarus do you have?
18:37.49Luke-JrSL-C760
18:38.41Macerwtf
18:38.46Maceryou buy it in japan or something? :)
18:38.52Luke-Jrimported it via HK
18:38.55Maceroh
18:38.55simulathat thing's keyboard is massive!
18:38.56Luke-Jrit is SWEET
18:39.03Luke-Jrsimula: very comfortable
18:39.20Luke-Jr64 MB RAM is a killer tho :/
18:39.24simulalooks more like a netbook ;)
18:39.35Macerwhat are you running on it?
18:39.38Luke-Jrsimula: my goal is the most powerful open device I can have in my pocket ;)
18:39.39*** join/#maemo ShellEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil)
18:39.47Luke-JrMacer: custom Angstrom build
18:39.57Luke-JrI don't actively use it anymore since the battery is fried
18:40.08*** join/#maemo L0cMini9 (n=kki@94.160.200.137)
18:41.06Macercan't find a new battery for it?
18:41.11Macerfigured they should be pretty easy to find
18:41.33Maceri never had a big spot in my heart for a zarus :) i just thought it was like palm type crap
18:41.56lcukhttp://vimeo.com/6417194 o_O
18:42.15wirelessdreamernone of the Zaurus models had wifi in them, thats why I stopped using mine, couldn't find a cf bt/wifi card
18:42.19Luke-JrMacer: I assume I'd need to import a new battery
18:42.29Luke-Jrbut yeah, no wifi, old CPU, practically no RAM...
18:42.34wirelessdreamer3xxx series was nice, usb host, great display
18:42.36MacerLuke-Jr: would be a waste of time ;)
18:42.41Luke-Jrwirelessdreamer: I got a 802.11b CF for $20
18:42.41wirelessdreamerno opengles =(
18:42.54wirelessdreameryea, but couldn't get a wifi and bt in the same one
18:42.56Luke-Jrwirelessdreamer: no OpenGL on Nokia tablet either
18:42.57Luke-Jrso far
18:42.59*** join/#maemo jrocha (n=JRocha@40.86.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com)
18:43.12wirelessdreamerisn't the clutter stuff using opengles?
18:43.14MacerLuke-Jr: touchbook has opengl ;)
18:43.16Macerhw accelerated
18:43.19Macerwonder how they pulled that off
18:43.28Luke-Jrwirelessdreamer: dunno about N900, either way it's closed so useless to me
18:43.28Maceri guess closed ti drivers for the omap gpu?
18:43.53Luke-Jrwirelessdreamer: s3c6410 has open 3D accel I think
18:43.56Luke-Jrat least in development
18:43.57wirelessdreamern900's opengles clutter libs should be open to all
18:44.00javispedrosomebody mentioned 3d drivers!!
18:44.11Luke-JrI wish someone made a Zaurus-like handheld with that
18:44.20wirelessdreamerpandora
18:44.23lcukis still blown away about onedotzero
18:44.26Macerhahaha
18:44.27wirelessdreamerbut no cell network support
18:44.31Luke-Jrhmm
18:44.36Luke-JrPandora kb is Zaurus like?
18:44.36Macerwirelessdreamer: did they even release pandora yet?
18:44.38Macer:)
18:44.41wirelessdreameryes
18:44.44Luke-Jrand no, Pandora is OMAP 3 IIRC
18:44.46Macerwow really?
18:44.46Luke-Jrnot s3c6410
18:44.47wirelessdreameralmost sold out of first patch already
18:44.56wirelessdreamer*batch
18:45.00Macerwirelessdreamer: heh. amazing
18:45.04Luke-Jrwirelessdreamer: isn't Pandora OMAP3?
18:45.08wirelessdreameryup
18:45.12Macertouchbook first batch was sold out before they even came out
18:45.16Maceri'm waiting on the sep batch :(
18:45.19Maceri hope i make the cut
18:45.20Luke-Jrwirelessdreamer: so not s3c6410 :þ
18:45.26wirelessdreamerIf I could us pandora as a phone i'd of got one, I hate carrying 2 devices
18:45.36Luke-Jrwirelessdreamer: bluetooth?
18:45.45Luke-Jrstick it in a pocket and forget about it?
18:45.51Macerheh
18:45.57Maceri use my phone as a mdoem only
18:46.06lcukbtw, the video was a bit of liqbase on n900! http://vimeo.com/6417194
18:46.11Maceri hardly ever talk on it. usually i just use my n810 with skype over tmob's 3G
18:46.13wirelessdreameryea it has bt also
18:46.21Luke-Jrwirelessdreamer: website shows no sign of release
18:46.41MacerLuke-Jr: heh. maybe it's a hk knockoff pandora
18:46.51Macerlike pandoraa
18:46.52wirelessdreamerread When and where can I buy it? in the middle column
18:47.06Macerwirelessdreamer: actual humans have received them right?
18:47.07Macer:)
18:47.12Macerit's not like "we have sent out our batch"
18:47.28Maceralways innovating said that.. and nobody started to receive them for like 5 weeks after they said they were doing it
18:47.40wirelessdreamerI was going off that line on the page.
18:47.44Macerfinally i think 6 weeks later
18:47.50Macersomeone actually got one heh
18:48.04Macerwirelessdreamer: i honeslty doubt people have been getting them
18:48.39Maceranyways. have to take a nap while my son is asleep taking his before i get no sleep for the entire day
18:48.47javispedroMacer, some humans have them. But currently, I'd say it's like the current N900 situtation.
18:48.52javispedroSome "key" humans got them.
18:49.10wirelessdreamerI want to find a human that can confirm tmobile will be supporting the n900
18:49.16wirelessdreamer=P
18:49.34Macerthe current n900 situation?
18:49.40Macerwirelessdreamer: haha
18:49.48Macertheir radio specs say so
18:49.51Macerbut who knwos
18:49.58mandarawshssht :)
18:50.21wirelessdreamerI put off getting a pre when I read about the n900, almost the perfect device
18:50.26Macerjavispedro: i don't understand what you mean by the "current n900 situation"
18:50.36Maceralmost/!
18:50.38Macer?!
18:50.38javispedroMacer: that everyone has one except us :)
18:50.43Macerjavispedro: haha
18:50.45wazd_YES!
18:50.51wazd_I SAW THAT!
18:51.05wazd_Space around the screen is touchable too
18:51.10wazd_100%
18:51.14wirelessdreamerMacer: If the software stack were more open, and shipped with usb host support
18:51.14javispedrowazd_, confirmed?
18:51.15simulajavsipedro... reps say that they will be ready for US pre-orders in about a week
18:51.16wazd_http://vimeo.com/6417194
18:51.17wirelessdreamerthen it'd be perfect
18:51.19javispedroI got that impression from the browser video.
18:51.39wazd_check the video, when he launches menu, he clearly slides on the case, not the screen
18:51.49Macersimula: didn't they say that a year ago?
18:51.52wirelessdreamersimula: not a mean joke? =P
18:51.53Maceror are you talking about the n900?
18:51.54lcuklol
18:51.55Macer:)
18:51.56Luke-Jrwirelessdreamer: personally, I'd be happy with just the drivers being open
18:52.02Macerthought you were talking about pandora
18:52.08javispedroin the ui interaction video, jussi does a gesture from the outside of the screen into the screen too.
18:52.11lcuki guess i dont have to keep it a secret any more :)
18:52.16simulai'm talking about the n900 :)
18:52.17wirelessdreamerI'll be happy as long as we have access to opengles :)
18:52.34lcukyou guys ready for one of my videos?
18:52.43wirelessdreamerfull speed psx emulator and user made clutter apps
18:52.45javispedrowirelessdreamer, know any ogles2 app I could try to upload to extras?
18:53.00wirelessdreamerjavispedro: download the clutter toybox apps
18:53.04wirelessdreamerbuild any of them
18:53.08javispedrosimpler than a emu, for now, i just wanna find an excuse to upload any :)
18:53.21johnsqslonopotamus_: the bug is madplay, which use plughw:0,0 as default device and didn't allow to overwrite it through commandline.
18:53.23javispedroclutter, erm..
18:53.37wirelessdreamerI did some clutter coding a few months ago, pretty simple to make nice apps
18:53.47slonopotamus_johnsq, other players work?
18:54.01wirelessdreameranyone know if they are gpl compliant with the kernel?
18:54.01johnsqslonopotamus_: just searching other player
18:54.08slonopotamus_johnsq, try uncommenting back that section in asound.conf
18:54.17*** join/#maemo radic__ (n=radic@ip-90-187-126-253.web.vodafone.de)
18:54.22wirelessdreamerI'd really like to try and rebuild with rt patches and have jackd running ;)
18:54.53wirelessdreamer4ms latency would make it the perfect pocket device, realtime midi synth
18:55.20slonopotamus_johnsq, or it's hardcoded in sources?
18:55.32johnsqslonopotamus_: its hardcoded in madplay
18:57.02radic_argh
18:57.11radic_any idiot registerd my nick
18:57.32wazd_I guess Vlad is the only man that doesn't have n900 after all
18:57.46javispedrowelcomes him to the club.
18:58.03wazd_javispedro: no, I mean, Fremantle stars of something :)
18:58.08johnsqwirelessdreamer: any midi synth which is usable?
18:58.26wirelessdreamerI'd like to get hydrogen and qsynth running on it
18:58.29javispedrowazd_, oh, I though they were for fremantle stars owners?
18:58.34javispedromaybe _he_ has one and isn't telling you.
18:58.37javispedro;)
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18:58.50wazd_javispedro: no way :D
18:59.12Stskeepsprolly under nda
18:59.28VDVsxStskeeps has one too :P
18:59.30wazd_Stskeeps: no nda can hold friendship :)
18:59.34Luke-Jrwirelessdreamer: N810 was GPL compliant technically I think
18:59.44javispedroLuke-Jr, you're forgetting about MAC.
18:59.49javispedroWi-Fi stack.
18:59.55Luke-Jroh, right
19:00.01johnsqwirelessdreamer: aha hydrogen sounds good.
19:00.04Stskeepsstlc45xx..
19:00.05Luke-JrI got mine after stlc45xx driver
19:00.25Luke-Jrso maybe they won't be :/
19:00.39Stskeepswazd_: but friendship vs able to use a n900..
19:00.40Luke-Jrmeh, I try to be positive about Nokia and someone proves me wrong
19:00.42Luke-Jr:þ
19:00.51wirelessdreamerI'd really like to not only be able to edit and listen to loops on the way to/from work, but use it for live midi data from my electric set at home. hence rt patches for ~4ms latency
19:00.58javispedro*evil grin* :)
19:01.00wirelessdreamerI just don't know how tested rt/jack are with arm
19:01.24wazd_Stskeeps: heh, would you lie to a friend for n900? :D
19:02.12Stskeepswazd, i am a sociopath so maybe :P
19:02.25Luke-JrI might for N900 hardware specifications ;)
19:02.30Luke-Jrj/k ;p
19:02.53Luke-JrI would just be really picky to ensure the NDA lets me solve the problem
19:02.54javispedroLuke-Jr, then go to finland and pretend to be a nokia or texas i. employee ;P
19:02.59VDVsxjavispedro, join #idonthaveann900 ;) I'm already there :P
19:03.13wazd_Stskeeps: well, on the other hand friend doesn't have FM transmitter...
19:03.16Luke-Jrjavispedro: I'm a political prisoner of the socialist state of Nebraska...
19:03.43VDVsxjoin #idonthaveann900
19:03.47VDVsxlol
19:04.01javispedrojoined the club already, after trying to type it a few times
19:04.14VDVsxlol
19:04.26timeless_mbpStskeeps: ping
19:04.28timeless_mbpor someone
19:04.36wazd_VDVsx: #Ivemadeloadsofstuffbuttheyfuckedmeup :D
19:04.38timeless_mbpplease take your handy n800/n810/n900
19:04.43timeless_mbpand run Notes or Sketch
19:04.55wazd_timeless_mbp: done
19:05.50wazd_Can I have the prize? :D
19:05.50timeless_mbptrigger the "open" dialog
19:05.50wazd_timeless_mbp: aaand?)
19:05.50timeless_mbpbrowse to the "Audio clips" folder
19:05.57timeless_mbpwhat do you see?
19:05.57wazd_Sounds?
19:05.59VDVsxwazd_, join the club :)
19:06.00timeless_mbpsure
19:06.11wazd_(no notes)
19:06.18timeless_mbpok, go to file manager
19:06.23timeless_mbpand go to the sounds folder
19:06.31timeless_mbpcreate a new folder there called "hello world"
19:06.43timeless_mbpnow go back to the notes file picker
19:06.51timeless_mbpand look at the sounds folder
19:07.09johnsqslonopotamus_: already said that lates firefox runs?
19:07.53wazd_timeless_mbp: well, Hello world 0 items
19:08.10timeless_mbp"0 items"?
19:08.19wazd_timeless_mbp: sub text
19:08.24timeless_mbpoh right
19:08.27*** join/#maemo acouto (n=adriano@201.56.102.13)
19:08.35lcuko_O
19:08.36timeless_mbpsorry, it's been a while since i used that
19:08.38timeless_mbpok...
19:08.47timeless_mbpnow select the hello world folder
19:08.50slonopotamus_johnsq, nope. cool  :) how much swap used?
19:09.03timeless_mbpthe question is basically: "What value is there in '(no notes)'? "
19:09.28wirelessdreamerif nokia world is where the big announcements happen . . . I want to hear when tmobile will pick it up, or hear them yell at tmobile for not picking it up, some kind of closure
19:09.30mgedminyou know that there are no notes in that folder
19:09.38johnsqslonopotamus_: i haven't looked, how much used. I have 256M swap made.
19:09.42mgedminif all you saw was a blank area, you'd maybe think the folder is just slow loading
19:09.58*** join/#maemo flo_lap (n=fuchs@f054213250.adsl.alicedsl.de)
19:10.01wazd_timeless_mbp: well, it can contain stuff but no notes
19:10.03javispedro(empty folder) should appear if folder is empty, (no notes) if there are files but no notes.
19:10.21javispedroor that's what I'd like it to do.
19:10.35slonopotamus_johnsq, post photos so ppl feel the power of gentoo :)
19:11.01lcukwhy do i keep getting kicked from #idonthaveann900
19:11.20lcuktimeless_mbp, call in there
19:11.29timeless_mbp?
19:11.36lcuklook at the chan name
19:11.40lcukthe bastards keep kicking me out
19:11.45simulaheh
19:11.54timeless_mbpjavispedro: the code won't be doing that
19:12.03*** join/#maemo Federico2 (n=fede@unaffiliated/federico2)
19:12.06timeless_mbpit doesn't distinguish between empty and filter matched nothing
19:12.48timeless_mbpthe question is then, what value is there in showing a distinction between "yes you can see folders here" and "you couldn't see folders here, so we told you there were no files or no matching files here"
19:13.21Luke-Jrjohnsq has N900 with Gentoo?
19:13.49johnsqLuke-Jr: no i will buy  n900 when its prices is <150Euro
19:14.55timeless_mbppokes lcuk et al
19:15.11lcukwaves
19:15.21lcukdid they kick you an all
19:15.39ShadowJKhm. someone uploaded a broken opevpn update
19:15.42ShadowJKopenvpn*
19:16.37javispedroShadowJK, saw that. That is one of my worst fears when "taking over" a package.
19:16.40javispedrothis was not my fault.
19:16.55javispedroIn fact I don't know who is the new maintainer.
19:18.04mgedminis there a #idonthaveann900yet?
19:18.21*** join/#maemo Komzpa (n=kom@mm-71-245-57-86.leased.line.mgts.by)
19:18.48*** join/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host86-171-219-254.range86-171.btcentralplus.com)
19:19.13*** part/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host86-171-219-254.range86-171.btcentralplus.com)
19:20.30timeless_mbppokes lcuk again
19:20.43lcukmm
19:21.00timeless_mbpare users really unable to recognize there's nothing to poke?
19:21.10timeless_mbpi really can't see how the string helps
19:21.21javispedrowell, i wouldn't remove it either.
19:21.35timeless_mbpi'm seriously considering removing it
19:21.44javispedrothen show an empty box?
19:21.55timeless_mbpeffectively, yes
19:22.05javispedrowell....
19:22.18javispedrogoes find a gnome hig author so that he kills timeless
19:23.08javispedroactually, nautilus shows an empty box.
19:23.24timeless_mbpwell that backfired ;-)
19:23.39javispedrobut unlike hildon, nautilus has proper progress feedback
19:24.08timeless_mbpchuckles
19:24.12timeless_mbpyeah well um
19:24.22timeless_mbpthat just means that right now we lie for a while
19:24.32*** join/#maemo paperclip2 (n=Stanley@246.120.0-93.rev.gaoland.net)
19:24.33timeless_mbpi'd rather say nothing and update
19:24.45timeless_mbpthan actively lie for a short interval
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19:32.34*** join/#maemo krutt (n=mk@p4FC322E6.dip.t-dialin.net)
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19:37.40*** part/#maemo stv0 (n=steffen@a89-182-21-58.net-htp.de)
19:39.51kirmacan someone point me to ARM Cortex-A8 document that describes pipelines in detail? strangely enough, TRM refers to pipeline stages in many places, but doesn't have a proper diagrams of all stages etc...
19:42.16wazdtimeless_mbp: you work on browsr, right?
19:42.39*** join/#maemo MrGoose (n=cache@5ac86e7c.bb.sky.com)
19:43.57*** join/#maemo LinuxCode (n=LinuxCod@fedora/LinuxCode)
19:45.31timeless_mbpyes
19:45.37timeless_mbpMicroB :)
19:45.51wazdtimeless_mbp: well, on n900 too?)
19:45.57timeless_mbpyes
19:46.01*** join/#maemo wdehoog (n=chatzill@243-210-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl)
19:46.07timeless_mbpalthough officially, that's the "Maemo Browser"
19:46.09*** part/#maemo jjmarin (n=jjmarin_@84.125.164.97.dyn.user.ono.com)
19:46.09timeless_mbpdon't ask me why
19:46.40wazdtimeless_mbp: I have a solution to consier, that replaces that kind of silly circle zoom :)
19:46.58timeless_mbpsighs
19:47.06timeless_mbpfwiw, while i personally objected to its introduction
19:47.09timeless_mbpit has grown on me
19:47.10johnsqslonopotamus: mpg321 -o alsa /mnt/tmp/mp3/ works
19:47.11wazdtimeless_mbp: what, it was your idea?))
19:47.17timeless_mbpnope
19:47.22timeless_mbpi didn't like it at all :)
19:48.29johnsqthe n810 has loud speakers
19:48.43wazdjohnsq: thanks, Cap :)
19:48.44timeless_mbpso does the n900 :)
19:49.25johnsqtimeless_mbp: but i get 4 n810 for 1 n900 :9
19:49.47wazdjohnsq: and 8 770 :)
19:49.54johnsqthan i can play 7.1
19:50.14wazdor 32 3310 :D
19:54.29ShadowJKhm
19:54.40ShadowJKdid/does anyone use zoom on n810's microb?
19:54.55timeless_mbpyes
19:55.04timeless_mbpbut keep in mind that you can play flash videos in the browser
19:55.09timeless_mbpso doing stuff like that was a disaster
19:55.13*** join/#maemo julianol1ver (n=julian@113.Red-88-0-71.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
19:55.26Captain_Picardawww n900 will be relased :( later in october
19:55.32timeless_mbpeh?
19:55.33Captain_Picardand not in the beginning
19:55.43Captain_Picard:((
19:55.56suihkulokki<PROTECTED>
19:56.12timeless_mbp<PROTECTED>
19:56.26ShadowJKI used to use zoom in chinook, but then it's limited to 80% in diablo
19:56.34ShadowJKso now you need to save images and open in image viewer instead :)
19:56.46ShadowJKI've never really had a need to zoom in, do people do that?
19:58.24ShadowJKhow far out can you zoom in maemo5? :)
19:59.19kirmaI understand what's branch mispredict penalty... but what on earth is "replay penalty" ?
19:59.27timeless_mbpShadowJK: i'm not sure we have a limit
19:59.52kirmarecovery after exception or something?
19:59.56*** join/#maemo chenca (n=chenca@200.184.118.130)
20:00.14suihkulokkikirma try #beagle for arm gurus
20:00.28kirmahmmh
20:00.38wdehooghi, anybody knows if XTestFakeMotionEvent (from Xtst) is supposed to work on maemo?
20:01.06lbtI just built cross-gcc on the OBS :)
20:01.10lbtis chuffed
20:03.21*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N810 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
20:03.42lbtjust told Denise and she wants me to build a happy-gcc <grin>
20:04.05timeless_mbpseems to be something like 80% sadly
20:04.15timeless_mbpat least, when i try to zoom out on a nasa image
20:04.20timeless_mbpi can't get a remotely useful overview
20:05.09timeless_mbpnot sure why
20:05.25ShadowJK:/
20:05.32timeless_mbpgenerally overviews aren't particularly useful
20:05.44timeless_mbpin my case, i could view just the image and it'd default to fit to screen
20:05.50timeless_mbptapping it would give me 100%
20:06.02timeless_mbpfit to screen in this case is probably something like 10% zoom
20:06.04ShadowJKAh fit to screen is back?
20:06.10timeless_mbpfor images?
20:06.17timeless_mbpwhen loaded standalone?
20:06.17ShadowJKyes
20:06.18timeless_mbpyes
20:06.18*** join/#maemo lopz (i=gentoo@unaffiliated/lopz)
20:06.23timeless_mbpwas it missing?
20:06.42ShadowJKYes it's missing in diablo
20:07.13toggles_w:n
20:07.21ShadowJKiirc it's in bugzilla with "not in ui spec" or something :)
20:07.25ShadowJKbut i could remember wrong
20:08.17*** join/#maemo caotic_ (n=caotic@189.183.26.81)
20:09.34*** join/#maemo Shinto (n=John@f048002178.adsl.alicedsl.de)
20:09.54*** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@f054213250.adsl.alicedsl.de)
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20:10.28timeless_mbpgrumbles
20:10.32timeless_mbpok, so um
20:10.40timeless_mbpthis doesn't make any sense
20:11.16*** join/#maemo karbas (i=karbas@thalassa.inside.org)
20:12.05timeless_mbplcuk: teasing us?
20:12.13lcuklol
20:12.15lcukno
20:12.17*** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net)
20:12.22qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: teasing *you*? ;)
20:12.24lcukVDVsx_N920 started it
20:12.32lcukqwerty12_N810, did u see the odd video :P
20:12.38johnsqslonopotamus: firefox 3.5.2 40mb res
20:12.45qwerty12_N810lcuk: No, linky please :)
20:13.00VDVsx_N920qwerty12_N810, did you got yours already ?
20:13.01lcukhttp://vimeo.com/6417194
20:13.25qwerty12_N810Bollocks... N810 sucks ass when it comes to Vimeo
20:13.37VDVsx_N920use your n900
20:13.53lcukjust a min then
20:14.00Macerdamn
20:14.01lcukVDVsx_N920, wheres the yt link
20:14.03ShadowJKsadly flash on N810 is more reliable than flash on my desktop :/
20:14.07*** join/#maemo trofi_ (n=slyfox@93.84.248.100)
20:14.10Macersure am glad my opensolaris server is working again
20:14.11ShadowJKit has died again waiting for me to reboot firefox :/
20:14.12javispedroVDVsx_N920, I wander off for a few minutes and you all get a n900.
20:14.22VDVsx_N920http://blogs.nokia.com/nseries/index.php/2009/09/03/first-creative-application-of-n900/
20:14.26Maceri need to work on it a bit more but that can wait
20:14.33qwerty12_N810Thanks
20:14.39VDVsx_N920javispedro, no Javi
20:14.51VDVsx_N920javispedro, I got an n920
20:15.30MacerVDVsx_N920: too bad i don't have flash on my debian box
20:15.31Macerhaha
20:15.35Maceri should probably install it some day
20:15.47VDVsx_N920;)
20:15.58Macerflash usually is a bitch to install tho
20:16.10Macerat least on x64
20:16.32*** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)
20:17.03johnsqslonopotamus: mpd works out of the box
20:17.55javispedroforgets about the nonn900 channel name
20:18.43VDVsx#idonthaveann900
20:19.44*** join/#maemo zimmerle_ (n=zimmerle@200.184.118.130)
20:23.14MaceN8x0ugh
20:23.25MaceN8x0need to get my son to take a nap
20:23.48MaceN8x0gives him a bottle of rum
20:23.50ShellEvilbrandy!
20:23.55MaceN8x0heh
20:23.57ShellEvilNo - rum is bad for kids.
20:23.59ShellEvil:)
20:24.02MaceN8x0hahaha
20:24.06MaceN8x0so is brandy
20:24.10qwerty12_N810Ganja
20:24.29MaceN8x0"When did you start drinking?" "3"
20:24.36MaceN8x0:)
20:25.00MaceN8x0he is tired, just doesnt want to take a nap
20:25.20mavhc3pm?
20:25.33MaceN8x0yeah, he will wake up at 5
20:25.44johnsqanybody played with xdmx (distributed multihead X server?)
20:25.51MaceN8x0otherwise he will go to sleep at 8 and wake up at 3am
20:26.38MaceN8x03yr olds waking up at 3am is not cool
20:26.38timeless_mbpso...
20:26.42timeless_mbpsomeone was asking about gps
20:26.49MaceN8x0gps?
20:26.50timeless_mbpi'm indoors and my n900 can get 5 satellites
20:26.57*** join/#maemo zimmerle_ (n=zimmerle@200.184.118.130)
20:26.58timeless_mbp7
20:26.58MaceN8x0wow
20:27.07MaceN8x0indoors my n810 gets 0
20:27.11MaceN8x0:)
20:27.19MaceN8x0-1
20:27.25timeless_mbpand it properly gets my address
20:27.56MaceN8x0timeless, what carrier are you using with it?
20:28.01timeless_mbp?
20:28.11MaceN8x0the n900
20:28.21ShadowJKwayfinder and nokia maps (on S60) disagree by about half a kilometre or so about my address :)
20:28.26timeless_mbpelisa.fi?
20:28.30MaceN8x0oh
20:28.39ShellEvilShadowJK: openstreetmaps. It's the only solution.
20:28.47MaceN8x0was just wondering about tmob support
20:28.51lcukpoenstreetmapsfromorbit you mean
20:28.54ShadowJKShellEvil, osm thinks I'm 50 km from the nearest road ;)
20:28.58lcukopen
20:28.58ShadowJKor so
20:29.01timeless_mbpit was definitely using agps
20:29.03ShellEvilShadowJK: you can fix that you know.
20:29.13MaceN8x0i will be incredibly happy if it can use tmob 3G
20:29.20ShellEvilShadowJK: It thought I was 20km from the nearest road till I told it ohterwise.
20:29.22timeless_mbpbecause once i turned off my phone, the accuracy dropped to nil
20:29.23*** join/#maemo flo_lap (n=fuchs@f054213250.adsl.alicedsl.de)
20:29.35timeless_mbpoh wow
20:29.46timeless_mbpbut now it has 6 satellites :)
20:29.46MaceN8x0heh
20:29.47javispedrobaah
20:29.49ShadowJKWait, are you implying you're tethering it through your phone? :)
20:29.49MaceN8x06 is great
20:29.51timeless_mbp8!
20:30.06timeless_mbpShadowJK: this is an n900
20:30.07MaceN8x0tethering an n900 through a phone?
20:30.10javispedrowonders what happened with WAAS/EGNOS
20:30.12MaceN8x0heh
20:30.20timeless_mbpturning off the phone means telling it "stop talking to the cellular network"
20:30.26ShadowJKAh, right.
20:30.34javispedroand "stop generating cancers on your brain"?
20:30.40ShellEviljavispedro: they exist.
20:30.46ShadowJKthere's still wlan and bluetooth to fry your brain
20:30.47*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N810 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
20:30.47MaceN8x0timeless, how is battery life?
20:30.54javispedrolistens carefully.
20:31.15timeless_mbpMaceN8x0: well, it lasts as long as the macbook pro to which it's plugged in has power :)
20:31.22MaceN8x0haha
20:31.33MaceN8x0how is it on its own battery?
20:31.47ShadowJKUh, I guess you aren't replacing s60+mirggi for irc with n900+xchat then? :)
20:31.56timeless_mbpsorry, i haven't really tested it in any useful manner
20:32.06MaceN8x0:-P
20:32.06timeless_mbpi didn't see xchat in the fremantle repo
20:32.18timeless_mbpbut i did take away my s60's sim
20:32.28MaceN8x0heh
20:32.30timeless_mbpso it's pretty much decommissioned
20:32.41ShadowJKI'm prepared... I signed up for the maximum MultiSIM from Saunalahti (right before they stopped selling it)
20:32.43MaceN8x0symbian is dated
20:33.04MaceN8x0the dude on nokiaworld made it sound like it was the second coming
20:33.24MaceN8x0java crap heh
20:34.24MaceN8x0just like android, wow what a disappointment
20:34.33MaceN8x0google ftl
20:34.59ShadowJKMaceN8x0, it was classical nokia. "Hey look at at this previous generation product, look at it accessing yesterday's hip sites! I'm so cool I don't even know what it is." for 2 hours, with 2 minutes of "Oh, the linux nerds in the basement told me to show you this. I think it's a phone, maybe. I'll lock the basement door next time, promise"
20:35.41ShadowJKOTOH the N900 promo videos are kickass :)
20:35.53*** join/#maemo dark (n=user@evdomip-221-45.iusacell.net)
20:36.59darkHow i can install the command arp for maemo
20:37.07timeless_mbpdark: you could build it in an arm scratchbox
20:37.09timeless_mbpand copy it over
20:37.10darkAnd which packet its more appropriate
20:37.16darkHos
20:37.28darkHow i can doo that
20:37.32*** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@a88-112-120-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
20:38.14mavhcso internet tablet = test bed for linux phone
20:39.02MaceN8x0hahahahaha
20:39.05timeless_mbpmavhc: there you go accusing a phone company of planning to make phones
20:39.21dottedmagSorry if I'm asking something lame - last time touched Maemo when it was a OS2005. Back then it was a lot of separate repositories with various stuff of various quality, often even without source code (while required). Did any central community-managed repository emerge since?
20:39.33timeless_mbpdottedmag: mostly
20:39.41timeless_mbpthere's extras and extras-devel
20:39.57timeless_mbpand most things that matter should be in extras
20:39.58darkArmel or arm
20:39.58timeless_mbparmel
20:39.58dottedmaggood to hear
20:40.06*** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=rsalveti@200.184.118.130)
20:40.20darkAnd the command arp
20:40.29kirmaSymbian deep under the hood is not bad. but it's so deep there no external developer, or most of the internal ones either ever see it
20:41.08MaceN8x0kirma, open source symbian?
20:41.09kirmareplace all the crud on top with Qt and such, and it may well turn out to be a good replacement for S40 when chips are getting cheaper and cheaper
20:41.14MaceN8x0lies!
20:41.26MaceN8x0heh
20:41.31ShadowJKsymbian does have some nice features
20:41.37ShadowJKbut also big problems :)
20:41.44MaceN8x0corperate open source, what a racket
20:41.55MaceN8x0let people do our work for us
20:41.57MaceN8x0heh
20:42.26MaceN8x0talk about seemingly nice cost cutting
20:43.54*** join/#maemo setanta (n=setanta@200.184.118.130)
20:46.01johnsqnice http://www.mattheij.com/howto_xdmx_knoppix_5.1.html
20:50.11*** join/#maemo gomiam (n=magao@84.79.25.26)
20:55.16*** join/#maemo alextreme (n=alex@82-171-161-1.ip.telfort.nl)
21:00.21*** join/#maemo Federico2 (n=fede@unaffiliated/federico2)
21:02.46*** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)
21:10.37*** join/#maemo alehorst (n=alehorst@187.59.26.101)
21:15.14*** join/#maemo nickar (n=nickar@host108.190-136-103.telecom.net.ar)
21:21.00*** join/#maemo rmt (n=rmt@77-21-86-215-dynip.superkabel.de)
21:25.20*** join/#maemo JamieBennett (n=JamieBen@5ac8845d.bb.sky.com)
21:26.38MaceN8x0have to love skype on the n810
21:26.51AStormnope, it's missing video
21:26.56MaceN8x0yeah
21:26.59AStormand tends to break connection on any cpu load
21:27.00MaceN8x0that does suck
21:27.07MaceN8x0sure wish it supported it
21:27.13MaceN8x0that would be awesome
21:27.32AStormhopefully N900 has enough CPU power
21:27.38AStormand skype 2 gets ported to ARM
21:27.46MaceN8x0heh
21:27.56MaceN8x0the n810 has enough cpu for video
21:28.02AStormnot enough
21:28.04MaceN8x0they just dont want to use it
21:28.11MaceN8x0works with gizmo
21:28.22MaceN8x0cant see  why skype cant use it
21:29.35MaceN8x0gizmo sucks compared to skype tho
21:29.38AStormit uses some weird compression algos which suck up cpu
21:29.48MaceN8x0oh
21:29.52MaceN8x0that sucks
21:29.56AStormI mean skype
21:30.06MaceN8x0yeah
21:30.08AStormgizmo uses something cheap, I think speex and mpeg1
21:30.18lardman|homeI thought it was supposed to produce better quality though?
21:30.33derfIt's not better if it doesn't actually work.
21:30.33AStormwho cares about quality when you can't run anything
21:30.40MaceN8x0true
21:30.41lardman|hometrue:)
21:30.46MaceN8x0heh
21:31.23MaceN8x0i was hoping skype would work on it on the n810
21:31.37MaceN8x0i am sure n8x0s brought them some business
21:31.45MaceN8x0it is the least they could do
21:32.03MaceN8x0although the android skype lite CRAP totally blows
21:32.29MaceN8x0no "voip" even over wifi? friggin lame
21:32.30ShadowJKYeah.. it uses regular calls doesn't it?
21:32.34derfA 400 MHz ARM11 is really not enough to do video encoding.
21:32.35lcukplenty of cpu on the new device (H)
21:32.40MaceN8x0does the stupid call fwd crap
21:32.45ShadowJKderf, h261 should be fine :)
21:32.52MaceN8x0ShadowJK, yes
21:33.01MaceN8x0and skype cred
21:33.05MaceN8x0it is idiotic
21:33.08derfShadowJK: Sure, if you didn't want to actually send it to anyone.
21:33.15MaceN8x0i just tether my n810 and use it
21:33.21MaceN8x0works fine that way
21:33.24ShadowJKderf, in qcif :)
21:33.31AStormderf: wrong, it's enough
21:33.38AStormwith a weak algorithm
21:33.39derfAt 7.5 fps maybe.
21:33.50MaceN8x07.5 is fine
21:33.52MaceN8x0heh
21:34.02MaceN8x0better than nothing
21:34.06AStorm5 FPS is fine even
21:34.06derfAStorm: Algorithm shmalgorithm, it's barely enough for a motion search.
21:34.16AStormuse DSP
21:34.24ShadowJKThere was that developers claiming he had 1080p h264 working on omap3. He strategically neglected to mention the fps :-)
21:34.31AStormand don't waste CPU on G.711 voice encoding
21:34.33MaceN8x0hahaha
21:34.42MaceN8x02fps? ;)
21:34.42derfShadowJK: Encoding is much harder than decoding.
21:34.47ShadowJKyes
21:35.00AStormderf: MPEG1 is simple enough
21:35.10lcukbit really, depends on how lossy the codec is ;)
21:35.16MaceN8x0yeah. 1080p is not realistic
21:35.18AStormpoor bandwidth-wise, but might be enough
21:35.28AStorm1080p is possible w/o filters
21:35.29MaceN8x0i know 720p should work
21:35.33javispedro1080p? does it even have 1080p output?
21:35.37AStormno
21:35.40MaceN8x0no
21:35.48javispedro:)
21:36.05MaceN8x0what is the res of the n900?
21:36.06AStormdropping most of deblocking from h264 even 1080p can be possible
21:36.06ShadowJKcomposite or svideo probably
21:36.09AStormbut it won't look well
21:36.10lardman|homebuzzword
21:36.12lcukMaceN8x0, 800*480
21:36.15MaceN8x0wow
21:36.18MaceN8x0not bad
21:36.25MaceN8x0considering screen size
21:36.28ShadowJKit's the same as N8x0..
21:36.30lcukyeah, havent seen anything that high res before
21:36.32MaceN8x0yeah
21:36.33simulan900 has a video output
21:36.40aqqI saw the n900 video. Flash was still lagging in the browser
21:36.41MaceN8x0i expected them to lower it
21:36.56lcukhas no lag
21:37.00LinuxCodelcuk, hi and bye
21:37.04lcukhi lc
21:37.12LinuxCoden900 video ?
21:37.16aqqlcuk: you too have an n900?
21:37.21MaceN8x0haha
21:37.23lcukhttp://vimeo.com/6417194
21:37.24ShadowJKhas never seen flash not lag, on anything... :-)
21:37.33lcukdunno about flash
21:37.40lcukbut liqbase runs like a dream on it
21:37.41lardman|homeaqq: too? who else?
21:37.41MaceN8x0wow, does everybody have an n900 but me?
21:37.45lcuki asked nokia to slow it down
21:38.02AStormaqq: flash is cpu-sucker
21:38.05lbtMaceN8x0: you didn't get the email?
21:38.08fiferboyMaceN8x0: Not eveyone :(
21:38.19AStormaqq: it's worse than h264
21:38.21lbthey fiferboy....
21:38.23aqqwell there was someone here who had it for freemantle
21:38.24javispedroMaceN8x0, yes.
21:38.34MaceN8x0get the email?
21:38.34fiferboylbt: Hey, how's it going?
21:38.39lbtjust got shopper + scrolling compiled under fremantle
21:38.56LinuxCodehahah @ text showing
21:38.56fiferboylbt: You got an N900?
21:39.01MaceN8x0haha
21:39.05lbtI just build a cross-gcc for OBS too - should mean much faster compiles
21:39.06aqqAStorm: but you'd expect youtube to be a benchmark
21:39.07LinuxCodeyeh f****ing too right, summer is over
21:39.12lbtsure... didn't you get the email either?
21:39.14ShadowJKYeah, that same developers who claimed 1080p, claimed 720p h264 is possible "realtime", "as long as you don't run ActionScript or other crap"
21:39.20fiferboylbt: What email?
21:39.35MaceN8x0ShadowJK, touchbook can do 720
21:39.37lbtcommunity N900s
21:39.40lbtask MaceN8x0
21:39.41MaceN8x0almost the same hw
21:39.48fiferboylbt: Nope :(
21:39.54ShadowJKhe was using beagleboard
21:39.56lbtlcuk got one
21:40.01javispedroI got one
21:40.04lbtsee
21:40.12lcukjavispedro, orly?
21:40.18LinuxCodeyay N900
21:40.19MaceN8x0what is the max ram on omap3?
21:40.21LinuxCodefinally!
21:40.26fiferboyI guess I am not community enough
21:40.36MaceN8x0fiferboy, me too ;)
21:40.44AStormaqq: it's not really, we'd need a better implementation of Flash
21:40.45lbtyou're canadian though
21:40.46wazdfiferboy: it's not a matter of ciommunity pal
21:40.46lardman|homeme neither, don't worry
21:40.52MaceN8x0we just have to go retail
21:40.56AStormaqq: e.g. using that JIT stuff
21:40.57fiferboywazd: Oh?
21:40.58MaceN8x0canadian?
21:41.01AStormand DSP more
21:41.06fiferboyMaceN8x0: Yes..
21:41.09MaceN8x0oh
21:41.10AStormmaybe even opengl
21:41.13AStorm(for scaling)
21:41.20wazdfiferboy: It's a matter of some unknown facts that I'm not aware of :)
21:41.21MaceN8x0yeah, nobody likes canada
21:41.27MaceN8x0:)
21:41.32fiferboyEveryone likes Canada!
21:41.39fiferboyWell, at least we think they do...
21:41.49jiivwell, except m.c. frontalot.
21:41.59qwerty12_N810fiferboy: it's all part of your propaganda...
21:42.04*** join/#maemo JamieBennett_ (n=JamieBen@5ac88423.bb.sky.com)
21:42.08MaceN8x0haha
21:42.13fiferboyCanada:  We think people like us
21:42.28MaceN8x0well
21:42.30SpeedEvillikes their maple syrup.
21:42.38fiferboyHas anyone in North America got a N900?
21:42.40MaceN8x0all canadians i have ever met were ok people
21:42.42lardman|homehey JamieBennett
21:43.17MaceN8x0no
21:43.26fiferboyWell, time to go home and make do with my N810 :|
21:43.31MaceN8x0you have to be fin
21:43.42ShadowJKkirma, heh. I accidentally found a photo of N900 on a site with "~kirma" in the URL. Did you photograph it?
21:43.44javispedroI'm not fim.
21:43.45ShadowJKLooks like a smudgefest :)
21:44.03javispedroqwerty is not fin either ;)
21:44.14LinuxCodeso, this isnt phone capable then right ?
21:44.16LinuxCode;-|
21:44.26javispedrowhat are you smoking?
21:44.27MaceN8x0javispedro, thats why you dont have one
21:44.29wazdMaceN8x0: again, terms of distinguishing good from bad are absolutely miserious :)
21:44.34lcukLinuxCode, its phone capable
21:44.40javispedrook, you got me!! :'(
21:44.41LinuxCodelcuk, but ?
21:44.44AStormit's very phone capable
21:44.45lcukbut what
21:44.49LinuxCodethere has to be a but.....
21:44.51MaceN8x0you have to have a facebook page too
21:44.54lcukno
21:44.55AStormLinuxCode: yes, the price
21:44.59AStorm599 Euro
21:45.01MaceN8x0and be hip to social networking
21:45.03LinuxCodelcuk, excellent
21:45.05lcukit scares the shit out of me when my tablet rings
21:45.12LinuxCodelcuk, lol
21:45.31MaceN8x0lcuk, mine rings all the time
21:45.37javispedromine too.
21:45.41LinuxCodesweet, so finally I can get rid of my P800+n810 combo
21:45.47ShadowJKmy phone never rings
21:45.47javispedro(as long as I hold the finger in the ring preferences screen, that is ;) )
21:45.51MaceN8x0i just ordered a pizza on it
21:45.52LinuxCodeand replace it with one brick
21:46.14MaceN8x0ShadowJK, find  a woman
21:46.59AStormmaybe he uses the buzzer as a replacement? ;P
21:47.00LinuxCodeNokia charger adaptor (CA-146C) ?
21:47.03LinuxCodewhat is that ?
21:47.14AStormuh, US plug -> Euro
21:47.15MaceN8x0microusb adapter?
21:47.19MaceN8x0heh
21:47.20AStormor other way around
21:47.23AStormoh right
21:47.27AStormUSB charger indeed
21:47.46LinuxCodeahhhh
21:47.51LinuxCodeI think I get it
21:47.51ShadowJKit's so you can use your old N8x0 charger with N900
21:48.02LinuxCodestandard power and then a usb based charging cable
21:48.35LinuxCodeohh it says call features ;-DDDD
21:48.37LinuxCodeyay
21:48.47LinuxCodefinally an awesome linux phone
21:48.54AStormLinuxCode: old news? ;>
21:49.00AStormyeah, with an awesome cam too
21:49.05simulatwo cams
21:49.08SpeedEvilIt'd be awesome at half the price IMO.
21:49.10AStormit's so awesome I'll get awesome running on it
21:49.12LinuxCodesimula, yeh
21:49.18AStormSpeedEvil: nah, it's worth the cash
21:49.26simulais jonesing for his n900
21:49.35MaceN8x0waiting on a pizza
21:49.36qwerty12_N810simula: he said "awesome cam". the front one doesn't count :p
21:49.39MaceN8x0im starving
21:49.43MaceN8x0bbl
21:49.51LinuxCodeSpeedEvil, normal mobiles cost that much too
21:49.55simulaheh... a user facing webcam is pretty awesome :)
21:49.58LinuxCodethey are just subsidized
21:50.03LinuxCodehence uch cheaper
21:50.06LinuxCodemuch
21:50.12AStormcompare with iPawn
21:50.15ShadowJKThe MSRP/MERP is cheaper than N97, cheaper than iphone 3gs 32g, cheaper than samsung omnia hd, etc... I still think the pricing is competitive ;p
21:50.28AStormit certainly is
21:50.32javispedroThe #maemo channel authorities kindly remind you that if you still haven't got your free N900, please join #idonthaveann900 to get your free one.
21:50.38ShadowJKiirc 150 euro below 3gs
21:50.48ShadowJKand the samsung
21:50.50AStormjavispedro: it's a lie
21:51.03SpeedEvilI'm not saying it's too expensive compared to the competition.
21:51.08VDVsxAStorm, try ...
21:51.14AStormSpeedEvil: you're saying you have too little cash
21:51.16SpeedEvilJust that it's a choice between it and ~4 months food.
21:51.23javispedroThe cake is indeed a lie. But this is not :)
21:51.42ShadowJKI bet this is lcuk's or luke's plan to order the chinese N900
21:51.56MaceN8x0so... does the world abandon mer now that everybody is getting their n900s?
21:51.59MaceN8x0:)
21:52.04AStormno
21:52.09AStormmer will be ported to n900
21:52.14MaceN8x0heh
21:52.15qwerty12_N810MaceN8x0: Please... people *still* use 770s :p
21:52.32MaceN8x0heh
21:52.48MaceN8x0i hope someone ports a skimmed down maemo5
21:52.57MaceN8x0ui and all :)
21:53.05MaceN8x0hides
21:53.23SpeedEvilWhen will maemo5 be ported to the nokia 3330?
21:53.24AStormimpossible?
21:53.35MaceN8x0AStorm, improbable
21:54.41StskeepsMaceN8x0: mer isn't just a backport. otherwise wed be dead in 3 months
21:54.43lcukwhy
21:54.44Stskeepsbbl
21:55.06lcukMaceN8x0, mer is linux, the n900 is surely just another target device
21:55.19AStormyeah, a modded port of Ubuntu Mobile
21:55.25MaceN8x0maemo5 using qt?
21:55.28AStorms/port/fork/
21:55.54MaceN8x0is there really ubuntu mobile?
21:56.00AStormthere is...
21:56.07MaceN8x0what ui does it use?
21:56.12AStormwhat matters is that there are ubuntu packages for ARM
21:56.39wazdMaceN8x0: mix of fremantle with communiti's suggestions
21:56.45VDVsxinfobot, do you have an n900 ? if not, join #idonthaveann900
21:56.45infobotyes, I have an n900 ? if not, join #idonthaveann900.
21:56.52lardman|homeanyone used the camera from python before?
21:56.54VDVsxlol
21:56.55AStormno, it's a lie
21:57.11AStormthey try to sell you that Nokla N900 - the cheap fake substitute
21:57.15VDVsxoh god, even infobot has one
21:57.19lcuk:( qwerty12_N810
21:57.20AStormChinese junk ;)
21:57.51qwerty12_N810lcuk: grrr
21:57.56AStormnow, can we get OOo on N900? ;>
21:58.06AStormor actually working abiword
21:58.19MaceN8x0abiword works on n810
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21:58.23AStormnot.
21:58.27AStormcrashes to hell and back
21:58.31MaceN8x0no printing tho :(
21:58.39lardman|homeanyway my video stream should be 320x240 x-raw-yuv, but for some reason my buffer is 115200 bytes in length. Any thoughts?
21:58.41AStormprinting could be useful, yes
21:58.43MaceN8x0really? mine was working fine
21:58.45lcukqwerty12_N810, wow
21:58.55AStormMaceN8x0: try to make a table
21:59.01MaceN8x0AStorm, cups printing would be awesome
21:59.06MaceN8x0really?
21:59.09MaceN8x0let me try
21:59.14ShadowJKlardman, sounds right
21:59.19ShadowJKlardman, yuv is 12 bits per pixel ;)
21:59.25ShadowJK(on average)
22:00.09lardman|homedoh!
22:00.35lcuklardman|home,    (320*240) + 2 * (160*120)
22:00.38MaceN8x0astorm
22:00.42MaceN8x0worked fine
22:00.52lardman|homeyeah, brain not in gear
22:00.53lcukno, its lower density chroma channels
22:00.55AStormhmm, must've been fixed
22:01.00MaceN8x0just made like 3 tables... no problem
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22:02.35lcukqwerty12_N810, i shall take this up with your supervisor
22:04.34lcukif i return it can i enter then
22:04.37lcukqwerty12_N810, ^
22:04.52qwerty12_N810Give it to me and we'll swap places
22:04.57MaceN8x0haha
22:06.40wazdhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaIQiJSluYo - lol D
22:06.59lcuklol
22:07.33lardman|homehmm, can anyone remember where the camera YUV output description lived?
22:07.48lcukyou mean the pixel layout?
22:08.09lardman|homeyep
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22:08.51MaceN8x0i jusr realized there are 305 nicks in the #
22:08.55MaceN8x0wtf?
22:09.14simulan900
22:09.15lcuklardman, you back in gstreamer
22:09.29lardman|homestill there :)
22:09.55lardman|homeI thought the format was UYVY or something like that
22:10.13lcukyeah are you trying to read the pixels again
22:10.27lardman|homeI just need the greyscale data
22:11.10ShadowJKIf you're lucky, it's the first 320*240 bytes
22:11.28lardman|homeI had a feeling it was not planar
22:11.41lcukit is
22:11.43lcukw*h
22:11.47lardman|homereally?
22:11.48lcukat start of data in gst
22:11.50lcukyeah
22:11.52lcuk1 whole plane
22:12.02lcukjust confirming tho
22:12.11lardman|homeah great, I must have been thinking of those bloody framebuffer formats then
22:12.13lcukps ;) http://liqbase.net/liqbase_media.php?username=lcuk&id=151
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22:12.39*** join/#maemo GAN800 (n=ryan@32.162.120.214)
22:12.44lardman|homecan you email that? Email postcard :)
22:12.50lardman|homehey GAN800
22:13.43wazdlcuk: can't you see that bug all over your rectangles?
22:13.44lcukno, but someone else probably can
22:13.53wazdlcuk: borders are drawn incorrectly
22:13.56lcukwazd, there is not seeing it, and not caring
22:14.11lcuki have off by 1 bugs all over
22:14.14javispedrowazd, I think of it as a "shadow effect" kinda.
22:14.22lcukand it would take a better programmer than me to cure them
22:15.03lcuki do notice them wazd, but i tend to just look past em, its inherited from the framebuffer
22:15.07lcukand frankly, at 250dpi
22:15.10lcuki dont much care
22:16.00lcukplus - theres a load of unit tests that would need to be constructed to find the perfect algo
22:16.03lcukwhich works everywhere
22:16.22*** part/#maemo aqq (n=cache@5ac86e7c.bb.sky.com)
22:16.23lcukor i would be fixing it in one place and it would pop out in another
22:16.31wazdyeah, *unit* tests :D
22:17.30lcukhah
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22:20.00ShadowJKMy tablet goes crazy when I access the camera with mplayer
22:20.19ShadowJKfree memory went up to 60 megs, and it's still trying to free more
22:20.25lcukdont access the camera with mplayer then
22:20.33javispedro"trying to free memory"?
22:20.53ShadowJKis guessing the driver wants huge amoutns of contigous physical memory
22:20.57ShadowJKYeah it's still swapping out more
22:21.01lcuklardman,
22:21.05lcuklardman|home,
22:21.07lcukrather
22:21.09lcukunsigned long p= *UYVY++;
22:21.17lcukits not planar
22:21.19lcukyou were right
22:22.28AStormYUV is fun
22:22.40ShadowJK:)
22:23.06lcukit is
22:23.23lcukwazd, i will try to put a fix in to cure box grids
22:23.36lcukto try to ensure boxes are on the outer edge
22:23.38lcukalways
22:24.20Firebirdhas finally fixed the mathematical error in his code after two hours.... he forgot to divide by two
22:24.22vladooohttp://www.pocket-lint.com/news/26771/nokia-working-3d-mobiles-phones
22:24.29lcukdoh! Firebird
22:25.07timeless_mbpdatabase?
22:25.35lcuktimeless?
22:25.45timeless_mbpfirebird is the name of a database
22:25.51lcukits also a user there lol
22:25.54AStormand a car
22:26.01Firebirdyea timeless_mbp
22:26.38FirebirdI have yet to think up a unique internets name for myself
22:27.05qwerty12_N810Pornstar369XXX
22:27.36javispedroqwerty12_N810, he said "unique".
22:27.58qwerty12_N810P000rnstr666ZZZ
22:28.39Firebirdmmm
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22:29.01lardman|homelcuk: you sure it's not planar and you're not just thinking about the framebuffer format?
22:29.31lcukhttps://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/liqcamera.c?revision=63&root=liqbase&view=markup
22:29.39lcukim reading original liqbase camera code
22:29.47lcukie, tested working lol
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23:04.00lcukwazd, grrr its makin other stuff pop out
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23:06.08*** join/#maemo zpol (i=gentoo@unaffiliated/lopz)
23:06.27GAN800Ubuntu is so much fail.
23:06.43GAN800Can't use Bluetooth DUN, can't use adhoc.
23:07.19javispedroNetworkManager I guess.
23:07.49VDVsxGAN800, in your n900 ?
23:08.09*** join/#maemo gunni_ (n=quassel@xdsl-81-173-252-13.netcologne.de)
23:08.26wazdGAN800: think carefully before answer :D
23:08.48ShadowJKnetworkmanages is universal fail :)
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23:28.18mikkov_GAN800: search for blueman, but yes it's major fail that it's not there
23:31.54Macerhm
23:31.58Macerdisconnected my artigo
23:32.02Maceri need to find something useful for it to do
23:32.08Macertoo bad the video drivers for it suck in linux
23:37.28wazdhttp://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/09/04/fremantle-browser-zoom/
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