| 00:00.12 | lcuk | hey there |
| 00:00.12 | lcuk | how goes it |
| 00:00.14 | johnx | it goes |
| 00:00.22 | lcuk | goooood |
| 00:00.28 | *** join/#maemo jgoss (n=josh@unaffiliated/jgoss) |
| 00:00.35 | johnx | just got back from buying car parts. got some maintenance to do laterish |
| 00:01.09 | lcuk | ive been busy hacking :) |
| 00:01.17 | johnx | fun stuff :) |
| 00:01.24 | johnx | got a more generic rendering backend? |
| 00:02.04 | Federico2 | thanks johnx |
| 00:03.20 | MaceN8x0 | have to love the battery life on the n810 |
| 00:03.22 | MaceN8x0 | :) |
| 00:03.33 | johnx | yeah, it's good stuff |
| 00:03.42 | johnx | just bought a new battery for my n800 and did a clean flash |
| 00:03.46 | MaceN8x0 | been going for about 6 hrs so far |
| 00:03.57 | MaceN8x0 | and still have 3/4 |
| 00:04.07 | johnx | goes fast after that though |
| 00:04.16 | MaceN8x0 | yeah |
| 00:04.21 | MaceN8x0 | but still ;) |
| 00:04.31 | MaceN8x0 | 6 hrs makes me happy enough |
| 00:04.37 | johnx | yeah |
| 00:04.44 | MaceN8x0 | i just decided to stick with maemo4 |
| 00:04.56 | johnx | between that and a phone with a good battery, I can be tethered on IM for a good chunk of the day away from power |
| 00:05.20 | MaceN8x0 | i just keep the phone hooked up to power and wifi tether |
| 00:05.42 | MaceN8x0 | which is amazing because im sure the wifi takes up more than bt would |
| 00:06.08 | MaceN8x0 | i cant wait til i get an n900 |
| 00:06.10 | johnx | especially ad-hoc wifi |
| 00:06.20 | MaceN8x0 | hope the battery is good |
| 00:06.24 | johnx | smaller battery in the n900 though. worries me a little |
| 00:06.40 | MaceN8x0 | my phone lasts like 1.5 hrs adhoc tethering |
| 00:06.43 | MaceN8x0 | haha |
| 00:06.48 | MaceN8x0 | damn g1 |
| 00:06.56 | MaceN8x0 | has shit for battery life |
| 00:06.58 | javispedro | fremantle sdk: "Uninstall conbox frees 858993459 kB of device memory" wtf?? |
| 00:07.02 | javispedro | *conboy. |
| 00:07.05 | MaceN8x0 | hahaha |
| 00:07.14 | MaceN8x0 | wow |
| 00:07.52 | lcuk | johnx, ive got a more generic framework |
| 00:07.52 | MaceN8x0 | that is quite a bit :) |
| 00:07.53 | lcuk | more anonymous |
| 00:07.53 | javispedro | "Uninstalling Attitude frees -171986918 kB of device memory".... |
| 00:07.53 | MaceN8x0 | -? |
| 00:07.58 | MaceN8x0 | so it takes memory away? |
| 00:08.15 | javispedro | i think I'm hitting a h-a-m bug, but dunno, because it didn't happen with my package |
| 00:09.08 | johnx | maybe that's the correct behavior and your package has the bug? :) |
| 00:09.43 | javispedro | may be, trying to uninstall my package caused it to crash :S |
| 00:10.23 | javispedro | hum, but hildon-theme-alpha also shows a pretty sane "9.4MiB", so I don't think so. |
| 00:11.15 | johnx | or maybe those packages don't have the right thing listed in their "Size:" field and the app manager doesn't fall back to some other method of checking? |
| 00:11.42 | javispedro | Attitude: "Installed-Size: 132" |
| 00:11.46 | javispedro | that seems ok... |
| 00:12.01 | javispedro | a bit on the low size tho |
| 00:13.12 | javispedro | http://depot.javispedro.com/MadHAM.png |
| 00:14.08 | javispedro | with those kind of "applications" I think qgil was wrong telling us not to worry about available size, not even the 32 GiB will be enough ;) |
| 00:14.28 | *** join/#maemo Shinto (n=John@f049070072.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 00:14.44 | *** join/#maemo matthieu256 (n=martin@212-183-71-127.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 00:14.55 | johnx | it's ok, just install attitude first to free up room |
| 00:15.00 | *** join/#maemo z4chh (n=zach@static-71-126-207-138.herntx.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 00:15.14 | javispedro | so this is what happens after an uncontrolled century of software bloat, 858 tibibyte note taking application. |
| 00:17.12 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: You know it's coming. |
| 00:17.24 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: And it'll probably be reality before you die. |
| 00:17.59 | SpeedEvil | notes his current laptop has a million times the RAM and storage of his first computer. (ZX81) |
| 00:18.21 | javispedro | calling the zx81 a laptop is evil. |
| 00:18.42 | javispedro | the 16k expansion I have is bigger than a CRT monitor. |
| 00:18.49 | javispedro | around a 15'' one. |
| 00:19.30 | javispedro | oops, sorry, should learn to read ;) |
| 00:23.30 | mavhc | and in another 20 years it'll be a million times bigger |
| 00:24.07 | johnx | though, I don't see code amounts jumping the same way they have |
| 00:24.42 | johnx | media content: yes, library dependencies: yes, but monolithic programs of huge size must be close to the maximum reasonable size they can get |
| 00:24.44 | mavhc | which means you'll have everything non-video ever created |
| 00:25.08 | AStorm | well |
| 00:25.18 | mavhc | and 24/7 recordings of your entire life, and anyone you know who's given you a copy |
| 00:25.25 | AStorm | about 3200xsomething is the resolution of human eye |
| 00:25.31 | johnx | mavhc, nah, cause cameras will keep adding megapixels, but for some reason everyone will still have 129kbs mp3s |
| 00:25.33 | AStorm | so if the screen is placed right... |
| 00:25.52 | mavhc | and in another 20 years you'll have the life video of everyone on the planet |
| 00:25.52 | AStorm | nope, mp4 is slowly phasing it out |
| 00:25.59 | AStorm | unfortunately, not Vorbis :( |
| 00:26.26 | mavhc | and about 50 years after that the zx81 OS will become public domain |
| 00:26.26 | johnx | but audio bitrates are still impressively low |
| 00:26.34 | AStorm | maybe we'll finally have Flac-supporting devices |
| 00:26.48 | mavhc | does maemo play flac? |
| 00:26.53 | AStorm | sure |
| 00:27.02 | mavhc | so there's no problem |
| 00:27.07 | AStorm | mplayer does and there's a gstreamer plugin too |
| 00:27.41 | AStorm | not sure if it uses any DSP code |
| 00:27.48 | mavhc | when mp3 was invented it was rare to find people who could tell that a 128kbit mp3 was compressed |
| 00:27.58 | AStorm | wrong |
| 00:28.09 | AStorm | in the tests, 128kbit mp3s got a 4 |
| 00:28.16 | AStorm | out of 5, on average |
| 00:28.48 | mavhc | tests of who? |
| 00:28.55 | AStorm | of FhG |
| 00:29.36 | mavhc | of random members of the public, or audio guys? |
| 00:29.39 | AStorm | note, this didn't apply to pure ISO encoders, which were broken |
| 00:29.47 | AStorm | a representative sample of general public |
| 00:30.10 | mavhc | anyway, the point is over time we've learned to hear the differences |
| 00:30.27 | AStorm | actually, we just got a bunch of bad codecs |
| 00:30.35 | AStorm | that is, ISO-based code |
| 00:30.52 | AStorm | try LAME@128kbps for a fairly good representation |
| 00:30.56 | AStorm | lowpassed, but ok |
| 00:32.48 | AStorm | of course, Vorbis and AAC are better |
| 00:33.16 | AStorm | but the difference is most noticeable at about 64 kbps, that is very low bitrates |
| 00:36.22 | *** join/#maemo inigoalonso___ (n=quassel@121.Red-88-11-123.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 00:41.00 | soap | how old are you? |
| 00:41.35 | AStorm | now 20-something |
| 00:41.47 | soap | male? |
| 00:41.48 | AStorm | and I did have fun testing and tuning LAME |
| 00:41.49 | AStorm | yup |
| 00:42.01 | soap | So LAME's lowpass is a problem for you? |
| 00:42.54 | AStorm | no, it's not problematic, just audible |
| 00:43.05 | AStorm | it sounds more like FM radio |
| 00:43.07 | soap | you can hear musical content above 16k? |
| 00:43.17 | soap | impressive for a 20 something male. |
| 00:43.21 | angasule | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:43.22 | AStorm | yes, last tested up to 19,5k |
| 00:43.32 | AStorm | angasule, yeah sure, are you a dog or a cat? |
| 00:43.34 | angasule | I am superman |
| 00:43.35 | AStorm | maybe a bat? |
| 00:43.36 | AStorm | ;P |
| 00:43.39 | angasule | AStorm: I'm an elephant. |
| 00:43.41 | angasule | a green elephant. |
| 00:43.52 | javispedro | last time I tried one of those tests I did not hear anything at all ;P |
| 00:43.56 | soap | You're in a slim percentile if you can hear 19.5k, much less in music. |
| 00:43.57 | AStorm | javispedro, well |
| 00:44.10 | AStorm | soap, yes, but 16k is easy for most people |
| 00:44.16 | soap | no it isn't. |
| 00:44.21 | AStorm | e.g. 16k lowpass vs 18k lowpass |
| 00:44.28 | AStorm | just a tiny bit of careful listening |
| 00:44.32 | soap | not for > 80% of the population, not for > 95% of the >20 population |
| 00:44.38 | AStorm | it's audible on percussion |
| 00:44.42 | angasule | hmm |
| 00:44.47 | angasule | can I test it on a website or something? |
| 00:44.51 | AStorm | and sometimes distorted guitars |
| 00:45.01 | angasule | I've lost a lot of hearing, lately :( |
| 00:45.07 | soap | angasule, yea you can - so long as you are sure your audio card doesn't resample. |
| 00:45.10 | AStorm | angasule, yes, I think ff123.net might have some useful samples |
| 00:45.13 | angasule | it used to be that riding the subway was painful, but no longer |
| 00:45.21 | AStorm | it may resample, but has to do it well |
| 00:45.34 | soap | many people, angasule, convince themselves they can hear much higher frequencies than they really can as a result of aliasing. |
| 00:45.42 | AStorm | yeah |
| 00:46.08 | angasule | soap: I have sensitive hearing, but not in the frequency meaning, I can just hear very very low volume sounds |
| 00:46.18 | AStorm | low ATH then |
| 00:46.26 | AStorm | mine is about average |
| 00:46.31 | angasule | like hunters hiding in the bush, the smartypants won't get me! |
| 00:46.35 | soap | that's good. One tends to lose the two together - but that's good nonetheless. |
| 00:46.36 | AStorm | and I've a difference in left vs right ear, heh |
| 00:46.52 | AStorm | (in low frequencies) |
| 00:48.29 | *** join/#maemo GiantTalkingCow (n=GiantTal@adsl-75-62-238-92.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:49.22 | javispedro | when using the sweep.zip file here, http://ff123.net/sweep.html, I can hear for the whole 6 seconds, which means something is amiss in my audio setup :P |
| 00:50.16 | angasule | I should probably disable pulseaudio |
| 00:50.30 | javispedro | i'm outputting directly to the creative p16v |
| 00:50.33 | angasule | I bet that PoS intereferes, but I haven't been able to configure my computer lately |
| 00:51.17 | angasule | I used to play games with the speakers off, I didn't need the extra amplification of powering them on |
| 00:54.34 | AStorm | nah, pulse has fine resamplers |
| 00:54.58 | AStorm | but make sure to set the output frequency correctly (usually 48000 Hz) |
| 00:55.19 | angasule | I'll do it tomorrow |
| 00:55.30 | angasule | or maybe the day after, so I can do it in the bedroom |
| 00:55.48 | angasule | I have a very noisy fridge in the next room which is annoying :) |
| 00:56.10 | angasule | I didn't program anything at all today, I'm a bad boy heh |
| 01:07.42 | *** join/#maemo ziyourenxiang (n=ziyouren@unaffiliated/ziyourenxiang) |
| 01:08.04 | *** join/#maemo guysoft42 (n=guysoft@93-173-139-35.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 01:08.59 | MaceN8x0 | wow |
| 01:09.19 | MaceN8x0 | i guess it does go fast afterwards |
| 01:09.36 | MaceN8x0 | can i get an extended batt for an n810? |
| 01:09.58 | javispedro | you think the battery level in n810 plummets, wait to see n900's one :P |
| 01:09.59 | MaceN8x0 | you would think they would make batteries longer |
| 01:10.04 | MaceN8x0 | haha |
| 01:10.20 | javispedro | 3 bars = 3 hours according to maemo.nokia.com screenshots :P |
| 01:10.25 | MaceN8x0 | n810 lasts a fair amount of time tho |
| 01:10.32 | AStorm | yeah, up to 9h here |
| 01:10.35 | MaceN8x0 | too bad i have a g1 |
| 01:10.38 | AStorm | (playing music) |
| 01:10.49 | MaceN8x0 | i have to adhoc tether |
| 01:10.56 | AStorm | ouch |
| 01:11.06 | MaceN8x0 | bt support in android totally sucks |
| 01:11.09 | AStorm | now, tethered it lasts about 7h |
| 01:11.23 | AStorm | 5 to 7h depending on usage |
| 01:11.30 | MaceN8x0 | android altogether sucks compared to maemo4 |
| 01:11.33 | AStorm | my cell phone lasts less if used heavily for gprs |
| 01:11.54 | MaceN8x0 | it was cool at first, but once into it... it sucks |
| 01:15.06 | MaceN8x0 | damn i really want my touchbook |
| 01:16.11 | MaceN8x0 | i thought it was odd that they were promoting the fact it comes with firefox AND fennec |
| 01:16.23 | MaceN8x0 | i hope the bookmarks are shared |
| 01:16.36 | MaceN8x0 | i suppose fennec is better for it in tablet mode |
| 01:18.04 | AStorm | is fennec still extreme excercise in patience? |
| 01:18.17 | AStorm | (as in, slower than a snail) |
| 01:19.31 | zerojayPC | On the N810 or? |
| 01:19.38 | AStorm | everywhere |
| 01:20.44 | GAN8001 | New release should be coming soonish |
| 01:20.52 | GAN8001 | Last beta release was better but not great on my N800. |
| 01:22.13 | MaceN8x0 | it totally sucked when i tried it |
| 01:22.28 | MaceN8x0 | but touchbook is a bit faster than an n810 |
| 01:22.33 | MaceN8x0 | and has a bit more ram |
| 01:23.12 | *** join/#maemo b-man16 (n=b-man16@pool-98-115-99-219.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 01:23.14 | MaceN8x0 | i think it is amazing that arm arch based things work so well wirh such limited ram |
| 01:23.44 | *** join/#maemo GuySoft (i=guy@93-173-139-35.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 01:24.53 | zerojayPC | ARM's pretty damn good. |
| 01:25.19 | zerojayPC | Just too bad so many ARM machines out there use Java. ;) |
| 01:25.30 | MaceN8x0 | i guess they hold back on ram for power saving? |
| 01:25.38 | MaceN8x0 | Nxxx doesnt |
| 01:25.42 | MaceN8x0 | nor does a touchbook |
| 01:25.46 | MaceN8x0 | ;) |
| 01:25.57 | zerojayPC | I'm talking about all the other cell phones out there. |
| 01:26.03 | zerojayPC | And Java's terrible for it. |
| 01:26.07 | MaceN8x0 | oh, yeah |
| 01:26.08 | MaceN8x0 | like shitdroid |
| 01:26.23 | MaceN8x0 | what a let down android has been |
| 01:26.25 | *** join/#maemo zelrikriando (n=zelrikri@S01060018f36a886b.wp.shawcable.net) |
| 01:26.29 | zelrikriando | hello |
| 01:26.39 | zerojayPC | I understand the idea was that you could have one app that just ran on all phones... but working in the game industry... it REALLY didn't work out that way. |
| 01:26.47 | zerojayPC | Different phones had different or faulty JVMs. |
| 01:26.55 | zerojayPC | Some had VERY strange bugs. |
| 01:27.03 | javispedro | all that usage of java is because I guess nobody expected ARM would continue leading for long |
| 01:27.05 | zerojayPC | So we had to make individual builds anyway. |
| 01:27.18 | MaceN8x0 | zerojayPC, java itself was supposed to be the bridge |
| 01:27.29 | MaceN8x0 | where everything ran everywhere |
| 01:27.29 | zerojayPC | Into madness! |
| 01:27.34 | MaceN8x0 | hahaha |
| 01:27.36 | zerojayPC | Yes, I know. |
| 01:27.41 | MaceN8x0 | yeah, seems that way |
| 01:27.55 | MaceN8x0 | it didnt work |
| 01:27.55 | MaceN8x0 | although |
| 01:28.02 | zerojayPC | And it just didn't work that way. I know... I spent years doing nothing but porting our apps to different phones with all sorts of results. |
| 01:28.07 | MaceN8x0 | js seems to work well |
| 01:28.12 | javispedro | this is going to be a problem with qt too |
| 01:28.32 | zerojayPC | that's fine. |
| 01:28.32 | MaceN8x0 | hahahaha |
| 01:28.32 | MaceN8x0 | that sucks |
| 01:28.40 | MaceN8x0 | porting in the universal jre? |
| 01:28.43 | zerojayPC | QT's not pretending that the same app will run unchanged on all. |
| 01:28.49 | zelrikriando | the n900 looks impressive |
| 01:28.51 | javispedro | it's not? |
| 01:28.52 | MaceN8x0 | :) |
| 01:28.58 | zerojayPC | No, it's not. |
| 01:29.03 | MaceN8x0 | sure does |
| 01:29.03 | javispedro | :) |
| 01:29.08 | zelrikriando | too bad I bought an android device |
| 01:29.10 | MaceN8x0 | and it is an actual phone |
| 01:29.21 | MaceN8x0 | zelrikriando, me too |
| 01:29.31 | MaceN8x0 | but ive had my g1 for a while |
| 01:29.33 | MaceN8x0 | i can change |
| 01:29.38 | zerojayPC | Not the way Java was anyway. |
| 01:29.40 | zelrikriando | is there some kind of market on the n900? |
| 01:29.42 | MaceN8x0 | and find someone with tmob |
| 01:29.49 | zerojayPC | market meaning...? |
| 01:29.53 | MaceN8x0 | n900 works with tmob |
| 01:29.55 | zelrikriando | app market |
| 01:29.56 | zerojayPC | App store? |
| 01:29.59 | MaceN8x0 | at least it is supposed to |
| 01:30.01 | zelrikriando | yeah |
| 01:30.10 | MaceN8x0 | omg |
| 01:30.11 | MaceN8x0 | i hope not |
| 01:30.13 | MaceN8x0 | haha |
| 01:30.21 | zelrikriando | why not lol |
| 01:30.23 | MaceN8x0 | android market is shitty |
| 01:30.30 | zerojayPC | No... there will be Maemo Select which will be a selection of the best apps available, and there's the Extras repo that will have most of the good apps in it. |
| 01:30.36 | MaceN8x0 | if i saw that on a nokia phone |
| 01:30.45 | MaceN8x0 | i would be sad |
| 01:30.48 | zerojayPC | The Apple app store is a complete fucking disaster. |
| 01:30.58 | zelrikriando | lol |
| 01:30.59 | MaceN8x0 | zelrikriando, ever use quickoffice? |
| 01:31.08 | zelrikriando | but but... I use all those apps |
| 01:31.09 | MaceN8x0 | on a nokia in symbian? |
| 01:31.09 | zelrikriando | :D |
| 01:31.12 | MaceN8x0 | it is awesome |
| 01:31.24 | MaceN8x0 | and on shitdroid |
| 01:31.30 | zelrikriando | I never had a nokia |
| 01:31.36 | MaceN8x0 | it was view only for $20 |
| 01:31.42 | zerojayPC | lol |
| 01:31.44 | MaceN8x0 | what bullshit |
| 01:31.54 | zelrikriando | I dont have access to paid for apps |
| 01:31.58 | zelrikriando | lol |
| 01:32.05 | MaceN8x0 | good |
| 01:32.14 | MaceN8x0 | they all suck anyways |
| 01:32.23 | MaceN8x0 | anything anybody really uses is free |
| 01:32.26 | MaceN8x0 | like connectbot |
| 01:32.34 | zelrikriando | I just use stuff like shopsavvy |
| 01:32.37 | MaceN8x0 | and, ... uhm.... |
| 01:32.40 | MaceN8x0 | thats it haha |
| 01:32.45 | zelrikriando | lol |
| 01:32.48 | MaceN8x0 | steel is a nice browser |
| 01:32.53 | zelrikriando | I dont have connect bot |
| 01:32.57 | zelrikriando | I like steel |
| 01:32.58 | MaceN8x0 | for a phone |
| 01:33.04 | zerojayPC | I came close to buying the HTC Magic a few weeks ago. |
| 01:33.14 | zerojayPC | But had a feeling something was going to be announced soon. |
| 01:33.15 | MaceN8x0 | connectbot is for ssh |
| 01:33.17 | zerojayPC | Glad I waited. |
| 01:33.18 | zelrikriando | zerojayPC: I went further that you and bought one |
| 01:33.22 | javispedro | sends 6x9 MiB packages to the autobuilder :P |
| 01:33.32 | zelrikriando | MaceN8x0: I can see some use but I dont use it now |
| 01:33.48 | MaceN8x0 | zerojayPC, i heard magic totally sucks |
| 01:33.56 | MaceN8x0 | all types of problems |
| 01:34.03 | zerojayPC | I don't really know firsthand. Didn't hear much. |
| 01:34.04 | javispedro | well, gnite all |
| 01:34.05 | MaceN8x0 | mostly due to lack of kernel src? |
| 01:34.08 | zelrikriando | I dont have any problem |
| 01:34.18 | zerojayPC | I guess the lure of open source and Google stuff interested me. |
| 01:34.26 | zelrikriando | I am running on a custom rom though |
| 01:34.31 | MaceN8x0 | zelrikriando, do you tether? |
| 01:34.31 | zelrikriando | and I dont have the crapy US version |
| 01:34.34 | zelrikriando | I do |
| 01:34.42 | zelrikriando | Well |
| 01:34.43 | zelrikriando | I can |
| 01:34.50 | MaceN8x0 | people in canada usin rogers... |
| 01:35.01 | MaceN8x0 | had all types of problems |
| 01:35.07 | MaceN8x0 | ive been using stock jf roms |
| 01:35.19 | MaceN8x0 | i will try a hero rom soon |
| 01:35.30 | MaceN8x0 | anyways. i have to go ;) |
| 01:35.35 | zelrikriando | I am on rogers |
| 01:35.42 | zelrikriando | what problems ? |
| 01:35.43 | MaceN8x0 | take care all |
| 01:36.40 | zelrikriando | damn |
| 01:36.57 | zelrikriando | now I am worried |
| 01:40.07 | zelrikriando | I didnt know about maemo until I saw the n900 ad on youtube |
| 01:40.12 | zelrikriando | :p |
| 01:40.15 | zelrikriando | like today |
| 01:50.48 | *** join/#maemo zehrique (n=zehrique@ubuntu/member/zehrique) |
| 01:56.55 | *** join/#maemo GAN8001 (n=ryan@2416422hfc34.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 01:57.46 | GAN8001 | Woo, AGP card slot is fried. |
| 01:57.51 | GAN8001 | That's a $1000 part. |
| 01:58.07 | GAN8001 | Plus the rusty case is about another $500 Apple will have to put in to repair. |
| 01:58.11 | GAN8001 | Mac Pro here I come. |
| 01:58.31 | ShadowJK | is this warranty repair or are they expecting you to pay |
| 01:58.40 | GAN8001 | It leaked. |
| 01:58.44 | GAN8001 | So this is a warranty exception |
| 01:58.56 | GAN8001 | They "repaired" the leak a couple of months ago |
| 01:58.58 | GAN8001 | but it's failed again. |
| 02:04.22 | *** join/#maemo zerojay (n=zerojay@modemcable180.240-23-96.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 02:05.07 | *** join/#maemo monkeyiq (n=monkeyiq@124.148.77.228) |
| 02:05.25 | *** join/#maemo supermaz_ (n=maz@dslb-084-062-056-161.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 02:08.13 | *** join/#maemo loufoque (n=loufoque@tal33-5-88-181-17-51.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 02:18.23 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (n=pcfe@a88-115-17-241.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 02:19.27 | loufoque | is there a place where I can get more information about the N900 than the maemo website? |
| 02:20.40 | zelrikriando | loufoque: did you try google? |
| 02:23.13 | zerojay | It's not released yet, so not really. |
| 02:23.37 | zelrikriando | there are vids on youtube |
| 02:23.48 | zelrikriando | but it might come from the website |
| 02:23.54 | zelrikriando | :D |
| 02:24.06 | zerojay | What info are you looking for? |
| 02:27.07 | GAN8001 | loufoque, feel free to ask. |
| 02:27.30 | GAN8001 | Between the group of us here we pretty much know everything there is to know that's not covered under NDA. |
| 02:27.45 | GAN8001 | Of course, no Genius reservations available. |
| 02:28.01 | loufoque | I wonder how the phone features will interact with maemo and SIP |
| 02:28.27 | GAN8001 | loufoque, Eldar's screenshots show a choser for picking between SIP and cellular. |
| 02:29.04 | GAN8001 | I'm pretty sure they'll use the same interface. |
| 02:29.14 | GAN8001 | Anyway, it definitely supports SIP audio just fine. |
| 02:29.20 | GAN8001 | (Better than Diablo, even) |
| 02:31.02 | loufoque | so it can't automatically use the best network according to what is available and the type of number? |
| 02:31.42 | loufoque | I mean, no transparent use of cellular or VoIP is planned? |
| 02:41.33 | zerojay | I like that leap in logic. |
| 02:44.33 | GAN8001 | lol |
| 02:44.47 | GAN8001 | I'm sure somebody could implement that. |
| 02:45.03 | GAN8001 | mutters more obscene things about Apple. |
| 02:45.31 | GAN8001 | I can't believe how far downhill their warranty service has declined since they started selling the iPod. |
| 02:46.24 | *** join/#maemo qpoi (i=cf7716d1@gateway/web/freenode/x-rayvtzqidctgresj) |
| 02:46.27 | *** join/#maemo zehrique (n=zehrique@ubuntu/member/zehrique) |
| 02:47.15 | qpoi | Where can I download the Maemo OS straight up? |
| 02:48.02 | *** join/#maemo secureendpoints (n=chatzill@cpe-24-193-47-88.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 02:49.55 | GAN8001 | qpoi, do you own a device? |
| 02:50.07 | GAN8001 | qpoi, certain parts of the OS are only licensed to device owners |
| 02:50.14 | GAN8001 | and, thus, cannot be downloaded by just anybody. |
| 02:50.28 | qpoi | GAN8001: I'd settle for just the GPL bit |
| 02:50.39 | GAN8001 | This should cover you: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ |
| 02:51.21 | zerojay | Not trying to preview Maemo 5, i hope. |
| 02:51.27 | GAN8001 | Perhaps also: http://repository.maemo.org/ |
| 02:51.37 | GAN8001 | really loves his plain-text web pages. |
| 02:51.57 | qpoi | More or less I'm interested in previewing whatever the closest is that I can to what the N900 will have. |
| 02:52.10 | zerojay | Yeah, youtube then. |
| 02:52.29 | qpoi | I have an iPhone 3GS, and I'd possibly be willing to be a turncoat on my contract in order to get a phone with raw enough linux |
| 02:52.48 | qpoi | Not so much interested in the UI--which is what I suspect YouTube will have |
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| 02:52.58 | ShadowJK | on s60 you can make sip default call type, and after keying in a number you can also chose whether to make cell, video or sip call |
| 02:53.14 | ShadowJK | I imagine it wont be too different in maemo5 |
| 02:53.22 | GAN8001 | qpoi, YouTube and the Maemo 5 SDK. |
| 02:53.27 | zerojay | I'm sure it'll be there too. |
| 02:53.33 | GAN8001 | qpoi, but the SDK is a testing environment, not an emulation environment. |
| 02:54.00 | zerojay | All the fancy ui stuff doesn't exist in it. |
| 02:54.03 | GAN8001 | qpoi, the platform is basically a mobile-modified Debian with the GNOME Mobile stack. |
| 02:54.13 | qpoi | GAN8001: is the backend capable of running ARM Debian as described in wikipedia? |
| 02:54.31 | GAN8001 | qpoi, you should be able to run anything you want. Only issue is going to be the cellular stack. |
| 02:54.41 | GAN8001 | Which we don't have enough details on to be sure of yet. |
| 02:55.29 | GAN8001 | May be worth browsing the SDK packages here: http://repository.maemo.org/unstable/fremantle/ |
| 02:55.39 | qpoi | what's the most likely outcomes on the celluar stack? |
| 02:55.54 | qpoi | likeliness of all linux applications having access to the internet, for example |
| 02:56.05 | zerojay | 100% |
| 02:56.06 | GAN8001 | qpoi, not enough details, Nokia is doing the whole oFono thing which will be very open, but it wont be ready for Maemo 5. |
| 02:56.17 | GAN8001 | So they've got their own system in place for now. |
| 02:56.32 | zerojay | All linux apps should be able to access the net just fine. |
| 02:56.35 | GAN8001 | Which I suspect should be easy enough to get running on something else, but couldn't say without more details. |
| 02:56.46 | GAN8001 | Yeah, net access should be no trouble at all. |
| 02:57.03 | GAN8001 | qpoi, at its core it's regular old Debian. |
| 02:57.12 | GAN8001 | Not a castrated Linux like Android. |
| 02:57.22 | qpoi | exactly what has my interest up |
| 02:57.36 | *** join/#maemo jiiv (n=jay@174-149-129-100.pools.spcsdns.net) |
| 02:57.37 | qpoi | Android got my hopes up for nothing |
| 02:57.38 | GAN8001 | The userspace stuff is mostly the same as what's on the desktop. |
| 02:57.55 | zerojayPC | Compile it and it should run just fine. :) |
| 02:58.07 | GAN8001 | Unlike Android and WebOS which are mostly just a kernel with non-compatible userspace stuff designed to lock you into their platform. |
| 02:58.29 | GAN8001 | qpoi, this is the real deal. |
| 02:58.31 | GAN8001 | Honestly. |
| 02:58.38 | zerojayPC | Maemo always has been open to letting the user do what they want. This is Linux as you want it. |
| 02:58.58 | qpoi | Maemo needs to get some people out there handling PR if that's truly the case |
| 02:59.07 | qpoi | because I had almost lost interest in it based on some comments I had seen on blogs/etc |
| 02:59.08 | zerojayPC | X-Term comes preinstalled even, I think. |
| 02:59.15 | zerojayPC | Which comments? |
| 02:59.33 | qpoi | couldn't cite it off hand, it's been a couple weeks now |
| 02:59.53 | zerojayPC | I wouldn't go by what some random phone blogs say. So many of them get the details all wrong. |
| 02:59.55 | qpoi | but it was readily apparent on a relevant front page google search |
| 02:59.59 | zerojayPC | As we all know. :) |
| 03:00.18 | qpoi | yeah, but it's a serious PR problem at a bare minimum -- because not everyone knows to look beyond something like that |
| 03:00.44 | zerojayPC | I don't know what PR problem you're talking about. I haven't heard anyone saying that the N900 wasn't full open linux so...? |
| 03:01.07 | zerojayPC | If anything, it's a major part of the PR already. |
| 03:01.13 | ShadowJK | Haven't Nokia employees said something like "the best part about Maemo is that you can get rid of it"? :P |
| 03:01.35 | zerojayPC | Haha. |
| 03:01.42 | zerojayPC | No, not quite the quote. |
| 03:02.07 | ShadowJK | aw |
| 03:02.09 | zerojayPC | qpoi: http://flors.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/software-freedom-lovers-here-comes-maemo-5/ - this may help you understand what's going on here. |
| 03:02.29 | zerojayPC | ShadowJK: They didn't say it was the best part. But they did say you could get rid of it if you wanted to. |
| 03:02.38 | GAN8001 | http://flors.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/software-freedom-lovers-here-comes-maemo-5/ |
| 03:02.41 | GAN8001 | Oh, bitch. |
| 03:02.49 | zerojayPC | muhahahaha |
| 03:03.05 | qpoi | will GTK also be a future possibility in maemo 5? |
| 03:03.09 | GAN8001 | qpoi, it should get better once the real announcement is out. |
| 03:03.19 | zerojayPC | GTK *IS* Maemo 5. |
| 03:03.20 | GAN8001 | qpoi, with Harmattan it will be community supported. |
| 03:03.36 | GAN8001 | Which means we decide how well supported we want it to be. Much like Python and Qt now. |
| 03:03.40 | GAN8001 | Fremantle is still GTK. |
| 03:04.11 | GAN8001 | Hildon is just a mobile-oriented GTK extension. |
| 03:04.25 | ShadowJK | "If freedom is your concern then you donât need to âunlockâ or âjailbreakâ Maemo 5. From installing an application to getting root access, itâs you who decide. We trust you, and at the end itâs your device." :) |
| 03:04.39 | zerojayPC | Porting GTK apps to Maemo is pretty simple for the most part. |
| 03:05.03 | qpoi | what exactly does porting it entail? |
| 03:05.21 | zerojayPC | Are you a programmer? |
| 03:05.33 | qpoi | i can read and modify code, but not compose it fluently |
| 03:05.37 | zerojayPC | Or someone planning on doing porting work? |
| 03:05.41 | GAN8001 | qpoi, you should be fine, then. |
| 03:05.51 | GAN8001 | Actually, you can mostly just compile things straight. |
| 03:06.03 | GAN8001 | Problem is, they wont be optimized for mobile usage. |
| 03:06.27 | GAN8001 | You'll need to poke at window behaviors, move menus around and prod toolbars. |
| 03:06.30 | zerojayPC | Small checkboxes and buttons... |
| 03:07.41 | GAN8001 | Ah, found it. |
| 03:07.44 | GAN8001 | qpoi, http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node13.html |
| 03:08.06 | zerojayPC | That where they show how to port that podcast client? |
| 03:08.34 | zerojayPC | Close enough. |
| 03:08.47 | zerojayPC | Typical end users won't need to bother with porting stuff, obviously. |
| 03:09.38 | GAN8001 | More and more FPSes are starting to ship with Invert Y disabled by default. :( |
| 03:11.54 | qpoi | does maemo keep a data connection alive at all times? |
| 03:12.02 | qpoi | or does it have a timeout |
| 03:12.41 | GAN8001 | Not sure yet, actually. |
| 03:12.45 | GAN8001 | It's designed to be always-on. |
| 03:12.55 | GAN8001 | But I'm not sure how the configuration is setup. |
| 03:13.03 | qpoi | what about on current gen devices? |
| 03:13.11 | GAN8001 | You can configure timeouts. |
| 03:13.29 | GAN8001 | It's WiFi/DUN and you can set it up for a variety of behaviors. |
| 03:13.32 | qpoi | i wonder if an apache server would be possible |
| 03:13.35 | qpoi | over VPN |
| 03:13.40 | GAN8001 | So I suspect they wont be regressing there. |
| 03:13.44 | GAN8001 | qpoi, should be no problem. |
| 03:13.53 | qpoi | even over the cellular network? |
| 03:14.21 | GAN8001 | Probably depends on your provider. |
| 03:15.12 | qpoi | what about geolocation -- is maemo aware? |
| 03:15.59 | GAN8001 | A-GPS and cellular. |
| 03:16.16 | GAN8001 | Uses it for tagging photos, and Ovi Maps out of the box. |
| 03:16.18 | qpoi | very interesting |
| 03:16.28 | qpoi | seems like you could grep that data and call it from a php script |
| 03:16.36 | qpoi | run an apache server, and display your location on the web |
| 03:16.41 | GAN8001 | qpoi, I would read through http://maemo.nokia.com/features/ |
| 03:17.18 | GAN8001 | Keeping in mind that marketing people are idiots. |
| 03:17.46 | GAN8001 | qpoi, that'd be really easy |
| 03:17.57 | GAN8001 | although I would recommend running something lighter than Apache. |
| 03:19.05 | GAN8001 | qpoi, I think there's a Telepathy plugin to feed that info to your friends list. |
| 03:19.15 | GAN8001 | Then you can show a moving map with everybody's location pinpointed. |
| 03:19.51 | qpoi | pretty exciting |
| 03:19.58 | qpoi | just can't wait for it to come true |
| 03:20.11 | qpoi | fully functional linux on a phone, that is |
| 03:20.32 | GAN8001 | Well and truly. |
| 03:20.35 | GAN8001 | Exciting times ahead. |
| 03:20.49 | GAN8001 | I just have my fingers crossed for AT&T 3G support in the NAM version. |
| 03:21.45 | qpoi | is there any specified date on when we will know that information? |
| 03:22.17 | GAN8001 | qpoi, Nokia World |
| 03:22.20 | GAN8001 | September 2-3 |
| 03:25.15 | esaym153 | c |
| 03:25.26 | qpoi | interesting thought..VLC |
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| 03:25.39 | qpoi | i wonder if VLC will be able to hook the input device |
| 03:25.44 | qpoi | and stream video |
| 03:28.13 | qpoi | that would likely require v4l support i assume -- any idea if audio/video are based on the closed or open source half of the phone? |
| 03:28.22 | qpoi | or of maemo, rather |
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| 03:31.12 | GAN8001 | Should be v4l2. |
| 03:31.20 | GAN8001 | Is in Diablo, anyway. |
| 03:31.27 | GAN8001 | So, yeah, video streaming should work fine. |
| 03:31.31 | GAN8001 | GStreamer or somesuch. |
| 03:31.45 | qpoi | interesting |
| 03:37.02 | qpoi | what about the audio? same deal? |
| 03:37.11 | qpoi | could record phone calls... |
| 03:37.40 | GAN8001 | I'd assume so, |
| 03:37.44 | zerojayPC | hhope not |
| 03:37.57 | GAN8001 | But realize that it may not be illegal to do so in your state or municipality. |
| 03:38.01 | qpoi | how come, zerojay? |
| 03:38.06 | qpoi | fortunately it's legal in my locale |
| 03:50.08 | Firebird | GAN8001, is the hpm git version supposed to be utterly broken? |
| 03:50.25 | GAN8001 | hpm? |
| 03:50.29 | Firebird | package manager |
| 03:50.33 | GAN8001 | Oh, h-a-m? |
| 03:50.37 | GAN8001 | Not as far as I know. |
| 03:50.45 | GAN8001 | Might poke qwerty12_N810 about it tomorrow, though. |
| 03:50.59 | Firebird | can't add any repos and it won't read any existing ones |
| 03:51.15 | Firebird | the icons also have the neat image missing icon |
| 03:51.18 | Firebird | *image |
| 03:52.02 | GAN8001 | Refresh the icon cache? |
| 03:53.58 | Firebird | eh, it may just be missing/pointing to nothing |
| 04:07.06 | GAN8001 | will never understand some people's need to have Bible readers on every mobile device they own. |
| 04:08.46 | zerojayPC | qpoi: Just because something is legal doesn't mean it should be done. |
| 04:08.48 | *** join/#maemo Moku (n=John@f054169173.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 04:09.34 | zerojayPC | qpoi: Recording a phone call with someone without their permission or knowledge is pretty scumbagish in my opinion. |
| 04:09.41 | zerojayPC | Just like going through my trash. |
| 04:10.31 | GAN8001 | What, I go through your trash all the time. |
| 04:10.40 | zerojayPC | The built-in media player uses gstreamer. VLC already has a port for current tablets, I believe... should work fine on N900. |
| 04:11.21 | zerojayPC | GAN8001: Damn Maemo council has its privilages. |
| 04:11.31 | GAN8001 | grits his teeth. |
| 04:11.40 | GAN8001 | Maemo _Community_ Council. :P |
| 04:11.42 | zerojayPC | lol |
| 04:11.59 | zerojayPC | I got lazy typing. |
| 04:12.19 | zerojayPC | And yeah, don't understand the bible reader shit either. |
| 04:13.07 | zerojayPC | Especially since most don't follow half of what the thing says anyways. |
| 04:13.49 | GAN8001 | To Each His Own I guess. |
| 04:13.53 | GAN8001 | Strange all the same, though. |
| 04:14.56 | zerojayPC | I would think a comic book reader would work just as well. |
| 04:15.55 | GAN8001 | You're a bad man, zerojayPC. :D |
| 04:16.12 | GAN8001 | A nice comic reader would be nice. |
| 04:16.28 | zerojayPC | Hell, it's all fiction, so what does it matter? lol |
| 04:17.25 | qpoi | zerojayPC: not if they're recording you back |
| 04:17.25 | GAN8001 | Somebody needs to put together a slick comic reader for Fremantle. |
| 04:17.32 | GAN8001 | That'll draw people in. |
| 04:17.46 | qpoi | zerojayPC: conversations with companies that play dirty is mostly what i have in mind when i talk recording calls |
| 04:18.10 | qpoi | zerojayPC: more or less leveling the playing field |
| 04:18.26 | zerojayPC | So... why not... you know, stop doing business with them? |
| 04:18.49 | qpoi | zerojayPC: not always possible |
| 04:18.56 | zerojayPC | I know that if I found out someone was recording my calls with them, it would be the last call they'd ever get from me. |
| 04:19.12 | qpoi | nearly all of corporate America records telephone calls |
| 04:19.37 | GAN8001 | Yeah, hard to avoid with customer service. ;) |
| 04:19.51 | zerojayPC | They tell you the call is being recorded. That's fine. |
| 04:21.58 | zerojayPC | GAN8001: http://comix.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html - hmm.. could be interesting for applying a Fremantle UX. |
| 04:22.20 | GAN8001 | zerojayPC, yeah, there's a MyPaint-style port for Diablo |
| 04:22.25 | GAN8001 | But a real UI overhaul would kick ass. |
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| 04:41.26 | qpoi | zerojayPC: yeah, they tell you the call is being recorded -- so that means the employee already acknowledges that they're being recorded |
| 04:41.51 | qpoi | zerojayPC: so if you record them in addition to their recording, it only means that you can defend yourself the same way that they intend to |
| 04:42.28 | qpoi | zerojayPC: i've had so many people lie to me that i have had no option but to record a few people over the years |
| 04:45.26 | kirma | bible reader and fox news viewer, because anything more general-purpose would be communism |
| 04:45.27 | kirma | ;) |
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| 04:50.59 | Luke-Jr | qpoi: meh, you don't even need to tell them in most states |
| 04:55.10 | qpoi | GAN8001: still around? |
| 04:55.23 | qpoi | had another idea while i was away -- how feasible does running truecrypt sound? |
| 05:00.55 | qpoi | does maemo use EXT/3? |
| 05:02.00 | tank-man | you can use ext2 or ext3 |
| 05:02.11 | tank-man | or jjfs (?) |
| 05:02.36 | qpoi | ext2 is default? |
| 05:02.50 | tank-man | no |
| 05:07.34 | GAN800 | qpoi, UBIFS, ext3, FAT32 and swap are default. |
| 05:08.05 | *** join/#maemo smackpotat (n=john@ppp148-172.bmts.com) |
| 05:08.53 | GAN800 | UBIFS for the PoP NAND (256MB I believe), FAT32 for USB storage, ext3 for /home and 768MB of swap on the 32GB eMMC. |
| 05:09.20 | Stskeeps | thank god for wifi at polish border motels |
| 05:09.34 | GAN800 | tank-man, JFFS2 is deprecated in favor of UBIFS for Fremantle. |
| 05:09.43 | GAN800 | Hi, Stskeeps. |
| 05:10.18 | Stskeeps | morn |
| 05:12.02 | *** part/#maemo smackpotat (n=john@ppp148-172.bmts.com) |
| 05:17.07 | jiiv | morning. |
| 05:19.17 | jiiv | stskeeps: finally getting around to trying mer, installing now. |
| 05:25.54 | Stskeeps | have fun |
| 05:25.56 | Stskeeps | bbl |
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| 06:48.19 | pupnik_ | so, i got a new pc yesterday |
| 06:48.21 | pupnik_ | booted up sidux (linux) from CD. gave my username, password and the partition i wanted. install took 1 minute and 32 seconds |
| 06:48.24 | pupnik_ | tried installing windows XP... |
| 06:48.26 | pupnik_ | 4 hours and 40 reboots later, still no windows |
| 06:55.30 | *** join/#maemo sphenxes (n=sphenxes@85-127-210-207.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 06:59.18 | BluesLee | pupnik_: where is the problem, who needs windows? |
| 07:00.24 | BluesLee | pupnik_: just a joke |
| 07:00.30 | pupnik_ | i understand |
| 07:01.10 | BluesLee | pupnik_: in general it should work, i dont know how sidux handles the partitions |
| 07:01.17 | pupnik_ | it's interesting to see performance on a variety of games |
| 07:01.57 | pupnik_ | but XP is a POS from a POS company |
| 07:02.08 | pupnik_ | glad i don't need to use it for work |
| 07:02.19 | BluesLee | pupnik_: than you are fine |
| 07:03.16 | *** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
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| 07:05.49 | thadeusb | Do you have to have a debian system to develope on maemo or is there a way to install on non-debian systems, such as archlinux? |
| 07:09.15 | konttori | nice. python edje demos are in extras-devel |
| 07:09.25 | konttori | is waiting for canola 2 eagerly! |
| 07:09.38 | konttori | thadeusb: you can develop on any system |
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| 07:11.11 | thadeusb | konttori: the examples all for setting up the environment seem to be all debian based and reliant on apt-get to install the packages. Is there a place I can download the source? |
| 07:14.58 | *** join/#maemo brbrbr (n=brbrbrbr@unaffiliated/brbrbr) |
| 07:15.53 | brbrbr | greeting all |
| 07:17.21 | *** join/#maemo Aruz (n=Aruz@88.252.253.3) |
| 07:17.29 | Aruz | hi all |
| 07:17.49 | Aruz | does maemo run python applications? |
| 07:17.54 | Aruz | n900 |
| 07:18.52 | Aruz | how can I get more info about pymaemo |
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| 07:36.45 | brbrbr | greeting all |
| 07:40.04 | pupnik_ | can vmware run directx games fast? |
| 07:40.05 | pupnik_ | windows in native mode is not working |
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| 07:46.05 | slonopotamus | pupnik_, afaik, no |
| 07:46.24 | pupnik_ | k |
| 07:46.42 | pupnik_ | i installed sidux in 10 min |
| 07:47.03 | pupnik_ | winxp - all day, and still no work |
| 07:51.10 | *** part/#maemo Aruz (n=Aruz@88.252.253.3) |
| 07:51.13 | *** join/#maemo Captain_Picard (n=ceron@a91-154-113-6.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 07:51.37 | *** join/#maemo Komzpa (n=kom@mm-71-245-57-86.leased.line.mgts.by) |
| 08:04.45 | *** join/#maemo Komzpa (n=kom@mm-71-245-57-86.leased.line.mgts.by) |
| 08:05.19 | slonopotamus | ~curse autotools |
| 08:05.19 | infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, autotools ! |
| 08:06.37 | johnx | so what do you prefer instead of autotools? |
| 08:08.23 | *** join/#maemo filip42 (n=filip@ankh-morpork.disque-monde.org) |
| 08:09.49 | rkirti | autotools are a necessary evil |
| 08:17.04 | *** join/#maemo hannesw_ (n=hannes@91-115-209-207.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 08:17.24 | johnx | sighs about the signal/noise ratio in t.m.o |
| 08:37.42 | *** join/#maemo BluesLee (n=malik197@ip-62-143-233-203.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 08:40.47 | thp | clear |
| 08:40.54 | thp | oops. sorry ;) |
| 08:46.20 | *** join/#maemo th3_4zarado (n=jl@201009073038.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 08:47.08 | rkirti | a little bit of fun : http://sudharsh.wordpress.com/2009/06/30/give-your-boss-the-illusion-of-managing-you-with-pidgin-and-dbus/ |
| 08:48.38 | konttori | pupnik_: afaik, it should run up to dx9 pretty fast |
| 08:52.00 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N810 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 08:53.36 | konttori | starts working on dpkg / apt front-end (yeah, deb installation in appman has been removed due to popular demand in n900. grrr....) |
| 08:54.41 | johnx | might want to see if gdebi behaves acceptably before putting in too much effort |
| 08:54.51 | RST38h | heya johnx |
| 08:55.04 | RST38h | johnx: have your prayers to Sharp been answered? =) |
| 08:55.17 | johnx | that NetWalker is pretty damn cool looking |
| 08:55.23 | johnx | I thought it was atom at first |
| 08:55.28 | RST38h | ARM! |
| 08:55.29 | johnx | even the price point isn't bad |
| 08:55.52 | johnx | and 512MB of RAM! and a Cortex A8 @ 800MHz! wow! madness |
| 08:56.13 | RST38h | is it using iMX51? |
| 08:56.23 | johnx | yeah, that's an A8, isn't it? |
| 08:56.50 | konttori | looks nice |
| 08:57.06 | konttori | otoh, would I have that rather than a 10" device... not sure |
| 08:57.16 | konttori | also, I would have gone for a bigger screen. It has the space for it |
| 08:57.28 | konttori | Looks like it could easily have fitted 8" display |
| 08:57.35 | johnx | kinda |
| 08:57.35 | konttori | that would have been nice compromise imho |
| 08:57.40 | konttori | but it looks really quite nice |
| 08:57.45 | johnx | screen to the edge probably makes it more flimsy |
| 08:57.47 | RST38h | johnx: yes, 51 is a cortex chip |
| 08:57.48 | konttori | I want to see one live definitely |
| 08:58.02 | RST38h | They seem to have skipped over iMX41 though =) |
| 08:58.17 | konttori | I think screen to the edge demands a good rigid frame to surround the display |
| 08:58.45 | pillar | is there really no IDE available for coding and debugging Qt for Maemo that integrates with scratchbox? |
| 08:58.55 | johnx | I haven't seen any pocketable/baggable gadgets with a screen all the way to the edge in recent years |
| 08:59.33 | konttori | at least devs@nokia use the qt creator |
| 09:02.15 | RST38h | pillar: Specifically for Qt, none |
| 09:02.41 | RST38h | If you feel like waiting for your menus to open and cursor to move, there is Eclipse plugin |
| 09:03.40 | RST38h | johnx: no wonder, it makes 'em fragile. ThinkPads had screens almost-to-the-edge once, but these were really special edges |
| 09:03.51 | pillar | rst: ok, this one? https://edit.qt.troll.no/developer/eclipse-integration |
| 09:04.28 | RST38h | pillar: this one is not maemo specific |
| 09:05.03 | pillar | rst: oh there is a maemo specific one too? I was looking for something like that but didn't find. Have to take a better look then |
| 09:05.07 | RST38h | pillar: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/1204012983/ |
| 09:05.24 | RST38h | Also http://www.cs.tut.fi/~laika/ |
| 09:05.45 | RST38h | But again, it is all for Eclipse == useless |
| 09:05.50 | johnx | time to catch some sleep |
| 09:05.52 | johnx | 'night all |
| 09:06.17 | RST38h | g'night |
| 09:06.21 | RST38h | pillar: and http://maemogeek.blogspot.com/2008/02/eclipse-plugins-for-maemo-development.html |
| 09:07.15 | pillar | oh I didn't realize esbox included qt support |
| 09:07.51 | pillar | RST38h: I have used eclipse for java development before, so I don't mind the ide |
| 09:07.53 | RST38h | I do not think it does, but it may |
| 09:08.27 | *** join/#maemo lcukx41 (n=lcuk@cpc3-oldh7-0-0-cust590.manc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 09:08.30 | RST38h | Personally, I would suggest Geany (www.geany.org) - it is a much better IDE |
| 09:09.29 | lcukx41 | mornin \o |
| 09:09.39 | RST38h | heya lcuk |
| 09:09.46 | slonopotamus | lcukx41, hello, mister |
| 09:10.01 | pillar | RST38h does it have better maemo qt support then? |
| 09:10.09 | qwerty12_N810 | Hullo, lcukx41 |
| 09:10.10 | lcukx41 | geany is good |
| 09:10.17 | lcukx41 | and simple afaik :) |
| 09:11.03 | lcukx41 | pillar, why dont you use the qt ide that goes with qt itself? |
| 09:11.25 | pillar | lcukx41: you men qt creator? |
| 09:11.37 | lcukx41 | i mean whatever whizzbang ide it uses lol |
| 09:11.54 | RST38h | pillar: no, but it is simpler, lighter, and works |
| 09:12.13 | RST38h | Also you may want to try Anjuta (Maemo plugin included): http://anjuta-maemo.garage.maemo.org/ |
| 09:12.13 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=Miranda@gwh-1-22-val21.ln.rinet.ru) |
| 09:12.18 | RST38h | heya wazd |
| 09:13.16 | lcukx41 | i use komodo edit on windows for all my hacking :$ |
| 09:13.36 | lcukx41 | my laptop is not my own |
| 09:13.44 | lcukx41 | even my bookmarks are gone |
| 09:13.59 | lcukx41 | cant remember the url for /. |
| 09:14.01 | RST38h | get your wife another laptop =) |
| 09:14.02 | lcukx41 | :D |
| 09:14.12 | pillar | it's not so much of what ide is the best that I am looking for, it's whichever would I be able to get it working so I can debug maemo qt apps with scratchbox |
| 09:14.13 | lcukx41 | i dont use it normally from the ui |
| 09:14.43 | *** join/#maemo madhav (n=Administ@122.172.37.178) |
| 09:16.37 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 09:17.23 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (n=timeless@a88-115-8-36.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 09:17.36 | timeless_mbp | konttori: hei |
| 09:17.38 | timeless_mbp | how do i mark on posti.fi snail mail that the addressee doesn't live here? |
| 09:17.47 | lcukx41 | http://developers.slashdot.org/story/09/08/30/0823206/Nokia-Makes-LGPL-Version-of-PyQt?art_pos=1 |
| 09:17.57 | *** join/#maemo yves_ (n=yves@d5153082E.static.telenet.be) |
| 09:18.34 | yves_ | Hi, I was wondering whether it is possible to run maemo on an ordinary laptop? |
| 09:19.05 | timeless_mbp | yes |
| 09:19.08 | timeless_mbp | well |
| 09:19.20 | timeless_mbp | you'd probably choose to run Mer |
| 09:19.32 | timeless_mbp | which is basically Maemo but with more awareness that other hardware exists |
| 09:20.41 | yves_ | ah, super, thx |
| 09:20.50 | yves_ | I suppose it'll have development support |
| 09:21.27 | yves_ | found it online, will give this a go |
| 09:21.42 | timeless_mbp | lcukx41: yeah yeah |
| 09:21.45 | yves_ | y'all also exctited about that n900? |
| 09:23.29 | wazd | heya RST38h, all :) |
| 09:23.37 | *** join/#maemo eichi_ (n=eichi@95.112.164.199) |
| 09:24.24 | timeless_mbp | frowns |
| 09:24.40 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=valerio@bl5-198-199.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 09:25.06 | lcukx41 | timeless which are you yeahyeahing, the /. link? |
| 09:25.16 | timeless_mbp | yes |
| 09:26.26 | lcukx41 | its one way to solve a problem i suppose lol |
| 09:27.10 | timeless_mbp | there aren't many others |
| 09:27.15 | timeless_mbp | short of buying the company |
| 09:28.07 | lcukx41 | so pyqt is still fine and good, it just means theres now a duplicate |
| 09:28.38 | timeless_mbp | depends who you are |
| 09:28.42 | timeless_mbp | but yeah, basically |
| 09:29.16 | lcukx41 | yeah, from my gpl perspective i agree, mind you, the other side of me says - its bindings |
| 09:29.52 | lcukx41 | there should be a way to make bindings automatically anyway |
| 09:30.05 | lcukx41 | ie without needing different license from the library itself |
| 09:30.13 | timeless_mbp | personally, i object to the idea of licensing Headers or Bindings |
| 09:30.20 | lcukx41 | nods |
| 09:30.39 | lcukx41 | i didnt even know they were a different thing anyway |
| 09:30.55 | timeless_mbp | well, people are imo stupid |
| 09:31.01 | timeless_mbp | and stick license blobs on headers |
| 09:31.08 | timeless_mbp | a header is not an api, and is not code |
| 09:31.20 | timeless_mbp | it's just a random series of uninteresting strings |
| 09:31.32 | timeless_mbp | a binding actually has code |
| 09:31.35 | jaska | mmhmm, a local shop started preorders for n900 :| |
| 09:31.41 | lcukx41 | actually - sticking gpl wrapper around a non gpl library isnt right anyway |
| 09:31.44 | *** join/#maemo hannesw_ (n=hannes@91-115-209-207.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 09:31.45 | timeless_mbp | although calling a binding a creative work is imo questionable |
| 09:31.58 | timeless_mbp | lcukx41: it's not illegal |
| 09:32.15 | *** join/#maemo bobl1k (n=any@ppp85-141-96-190.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) |
| 09:32.27 | lcukx41 | so i could stick a gpl wrapper around nokia pc quite or around skype |
| 09:32.33 | lcukx41 | suite |
| 09:32.37 | timeless_mbp | depends |
| 09:32.42 | *** join/#maemo ustunozgur_ (n=ustun@88.232.93.251) |
| 09:32.49 | timeless_mbp | nokia pc suite is probably an executable instead of a dll |
| 09:33.01 | timeless_mbp | skype for the n900 is actually dll's afaiu |
| 09:33.03 | *** join/#maemo RST38h (i=marat@trantor.komkon.org) |
| 09:33.15 | timeless_mbp | sticking a gpl wrapper around skype and distributing it would be amusing |
| 09:33.41 | timeless_mbp | i'm relatively confident you couldn't legally distribute it + the skype library in a bundle w/o permission from skype |
| 09:33.50 | timeless_mbp | and i'd expect that skype wouldn't give you that permission |
| 09:34.01 | RST38h | Ok, who is willing to bet that the 2nd (Q1 2009) Maemo5 device will be the thin keyboardless version of N900? =) |
| 09:34.03 | timeless_mbp | the library itself, alone, is code, and alone doesn't violate anything |
| 09:34.29 | lcukx41 | and thats similar to the pyqt surely - and means nokia were right :) |
| 09:34.50 | timeless_mbp | well |
| 09:34.58 | timeless_mbp | personally i'd rather nokia wrote the thing as BSD |
| 09:35.40 | timeless_mbp | again, i don't personally believe that bindings are creative works |
| 09:35.51 | lcukx41 | is happy with gpl+lgpl option later (all devs who have coded have agreed) |
| 09:35.56 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 09:36.06 | timeless_mbp | i didn't spend the time trying to argue this when they indicated their intent |
| 09:36.46 | lcukx41 | yeah, but moving to lgpl is least resistance and gives community what they desire |
| 09:36.49 | timeless_mbp | pokes a random Finn for help w/ the Finnish postal system |
| 09:36.51 | lcukx41 | was |
| 09:37.03 | timeless_mbp | oh i'm just talking about the binding |
| 09:37.10 | timeless_mbp | moving Qt itself to LGPL makes sense |
| 09:38.10 | lcukx41 | having the bindings in house is a good thing (tm) especially if the updates are more in sync and considered when a major release is done |
| 09:38.40 | timeless_mbp | if done right, maybe |
| 09:39.07 | timeless_mbp | but what if i want to write an app using the latest bindings and it turns out i'm running on an older version of Qt? |
| 09:39.08 | lcukx41 | but it still doesnt help the steamroller effect the pyqt devs must be feeling |
| 09:39.10 | *** part/#maemo timeless_mbp (n=timeless@a88-115-8-36.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 09:39.22 | lcukx41 | then update |
| 09:39.30 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (n=timeless@a88-115-8-36.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 09:39.36 | timeless_mbp | eep, my window died |
| 09:40.47 | lcukx41 | hah |
| 09:41.08 | lcukx41 | which laptop is that, the _mbp always made me think it was your phone |
| 09:41.56 | timeless_mbp | macbook pro |
| 09:42.37 | lcukx41 | ahhhh |
| 09:42.40 | lcukx41 | the penny drops |
| 09:42.58 | timeless_mbp | my phones have their name embedded |
| 09:43.07 | timeless_mbp | timelE61i |
| 09:43.29 | timeless_mbp | wonders if xchat made fremantle extras yet |
| 09:43.40 | RST38h | lcuk: Well, pyqt guys are not unique and this is just what they should be feeling right now :) |
| 09:43.48 | *** join/#maemo madhav (n=Administ@122.172.1.63) |
| 09:43.53 | lcukx41 | mmm rst? |
| 09:44.09 | lcukx41 | does know some instances |
| 09:44.12 | RST38h | lcuk: that's about Nokia deciding to clone pyqt |
| 09:44.21 | lcukx41 | yeah i know |
| 09:45.11 | RST38h | In unrelated news, "EMC co-founder kills himself" |
| 09:45.18 | timeless_mbp | ? |
| 09:45.19 | timeless_mbp | ?! |
| 09:45.38 | RST38h | This one actually deserves pity, as he had lung cancer =( |
| 09:54.19 | lcukx41 | mer has just a topbar doesnt it |
| 09:54.38 | lcukx41 | i notice fremantle does too |
| 09:54.44 | lcukx41 | are the bar heights the same? |
| 09:56.10 | *** join/#maemo ziyourenxiang (n=ziyouren@unaffiliated/ziyourenxiang) |
| 09:56.29 | lcukx41 | hey RST38h i found a neat way to get rid of bare button syndrome! |
| 09:56.48 | lcukx41 | i have a nice gradiented background which is tinted to the original flat button :) |
| 09:56.55 | RST38h | Cell phone bill for July 2009 was rur400 :) |
| 09:56.58 | lcukx41 | looks much nicer and more polished |
| 09:57.03 | RST38h | That is ~$11 |
| 09:57.14 | lcukx41 | thats good then isnt it |
| 09:57.23 | RST38h | Kinda high :) |
| 09:57.25 | lcukx41 | or is $11 still 6 months wages |
| 09:57.39 | RST38h | Naah, it is not a lot really |
| 09:57.41 | lcukx41 | my phone bill was about £150 |
| 09:57.57 | RST38h | lcuk: I think you should just let wazd work on the backgrounds and buttons |
| 09:58.06 | lcukx41 | yeah i can now i have support :) |
| 09:58.09 | RST38h | lcuk: and trust him to do the right thing, he usually does |
| 09:58.16 | lcukx41 | before i didnt want to have to worry about every button |
| 09:58.30 | lcukx41 | which would be a ballache |
| 09:58.43 | RST38h | lcuk: The August bill will probably be higher as they started rounding GPRS sessions to the nearest 100kB |
| 09:58.49 | lcukx41 | so now i can just make a screen and know it wont look crap |
| 09:58.53 | RST38h | or actually upper 100kB |
| 09:58.58 | lcukx41 | urg |
| 09:59.11 | lcukx41 | and thats per session i gather |
| 09:59.24 | lcukx41 | so open, dl 10kb close |
| 10:00.13 | RST38h | yea, but I rarely dl 10kB :) |
| 10:00.28 | lcukx41 | but thats the principle |
| 10:00.33 | lcukx41 | and if it was 810kb |
| 10:00.35 | lcukx41 | etc |
| 10:00.50 | RST38h | "gprs session" is the time when your gprs symbol is shown at the display |
| 10:01.12 | lcukx41 | urg |
| 10:01.20 | RST38h | as I usually browse a few sites before cutting connection and often run IM clients, it is not THAT bad :) |
| 10:01.27 | lcukx41 | my phone is really evily clever |
| 10:01.39 | lcukx41 | the gprs open is on the cancel button |
| 10:01.51 | lcukx41 | so if you cancel too far it opens gprs window |
| 10:02.00 | RST38h | what is gprs window anyway? |
| 10:02.07 | lcukx41 | browser |
| 10:02.12 | qwerty12_N810 | lcukx41: your o2 phone? |
| 10:02.14 | lcukx41 | connect to o2 |
| 10:02.18 | lcukx41 | yeah |
| 10:02.22 | qwerty12_N810 | Figures... |
| 10:02.22 | lcukx41 | i hate it |
| 10:02.39 | lcukx41 | its the only function on the phone that annoys |
| 10:02.42 | RST38h | ah |
| 10:02.51 | lcukx41 | because i cancel cancel cancel and then shit |
| 10:02.54 | lcukx41 | and have to close browser |
| 10:03.07 | lcukx41 | (i dont literally shit you understand) |
| 10:03.11 | qwerty12_N810 | My mum had a T630 where the T-zones button on the side would open up the internet... Changed the homepage to mailto:// and she was happy |
| 10:03.20 | RST38h | Funny, MTS now offers unlimited Internet tariffs, at ~$48/month but ONLY to iPhone users |
| 10:03.45 | jaska | iphone users are already being robbed through the nose?:D |
| 10:04.12 | lcukx41 | qwerty12_N810, good idea |
| 10:04.22 | lcukx41 | infact, even better, ill just try to vape all the stuff |
| 10:04.32 | RST38h | Kinda useless too, given that you can have 1GB cap for the same $48 |
| 10:04.41 | lcukx41 | but it tries to be clever and if i delete the crap contacts it restores them |
| 10:04.43 | lcukx41 | on bootup |
| 10:04.46 | RST38h | jaska: ah it is funnier than that actually |
| 10:05.01 | RST38h | jaska: local operators bought shitloads of iPhones from Apple |
| 10:05.43 | lcukx41 | i bet they did |
| 10:05.56 | RST38h | jaska: and now they do not know what to do with these |
| 10:06.07 | lcukx41 | still wonders how well liqbase could run on iphone hardware |
| 10:06.20 | RST38h | giving them away as corporate gifts to employees, selling them through electronics chains below cost, etc |
| 10:06.38 | jaska | im surprised they still dont sell them here unlocked.. only phone ive seen that has been sold locked for any time |
| 10:06.50 | mavhc | my phone usage is so low o2 keep trying to cut me off |
| 10:06.52 | jaska | retarded laws they passed to allow it |
| 10:06.54 | RST38h | lcuk: probably about the same, although I doubt you would get YUV buffer |
| 10:07.13 | lcukx41 | i wouldnt mind |
| 10:07.13 | lcukx41 | the phone is lores anyway |
| 10:07.15 | mavhc | apparently if you don't top up your credit every 999 days they get annoyed |
| 10:07.17 | lcukx41 | id just have to make a proper rgb backend |
| 10:08.10 | lcukx41 | is pondering how to do backend support anyway |
| 10:09.24 | thux | ot is it possible to see wtv files in linux? (win mediacenter recorded tv) |
| 10:11.10 | lcukx41 | thux, dunno never heard of em before now |
| 10:13.06 | thux | ok apparently not cause google didn't know |
| 10:13.25 | thux | they always invent some new formats |
| 10:16.51 | RST38h | thux: prolly not although I would check if the format has any relation to wmv |
| 10:18.59 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@a88-112-120-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 10:19.04 | RST38h | thux: http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/WTV-to-AVI-Converter-Download-123655.html |
| 10:21.19 | *** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@f054164148.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 10:21.23 | *** join/#maemo fnordianslip (n=fnoridan@94-30-69-47.xdsl.murphx.net) |
| 10:23.52 | konttori | timeless: hey |
| 10:24.30 | *** join/#maemo ustunozgur_ (n=ustun@88.232.93.251) |
| 10:24.45 | konttori | timeless: put it back to a outgoing snail mailbox and mark on the cover that person does not live at the address. |
| 10:25.41 | RST38h | Ah, wonderful! I think we have got a winner troll a t.m.o! |
| 10:25.49 | jaska | troll.maemo.org |
| 10:26.21 | RST38h | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=318223&postcount=384 |
| 10:26.28 | RST38h | s/a/at |
| 10:26.40 | Proteous | a/s/l |
| 10:27.00 | RST38h | 6/6/6 |
| 10:27.06 | Proteous | hawt |
| 10:27.46 | Myrtti | meh |
| 10:28.46 | konttori | how do I register my app as the default app to open .deb files? |
| 10:29.00 | RST38h | konttori: add it to mime database |
| 10:29.07 | RST38h | need an example? |
| 10:29.13 | konttori | please |
| 10:29.20 | RST38h | a moment |
| 10:29.25 | konttori | I thought it was enough to add something to .desktop file |
| 10:29.55 | RST38h | no |
| 10:30.23 | qwerty12_N810 | IIRC, you need a mimetype file to register the new mimetype, a MimeType entry in the desktop to register your application as being able to open the file, and then a callback function for libosso to get the filename passed... |
| 10:30.43 | RST38h | konttori: Get ColEm portable sources from here: http://fms.komkon.org/ColEm/ |
| 10:30.48 | konttori | thanks |
| 10:30.51 | RST38h | konttori: go to Maemo/Package |
| 10:30.57 | *** part/#maemo Komzpa (n=kom@mm-71-245-57-86.leased.line.mgts.by) |
| 10:31.11 | RST38h | konttori: you want to look at colem-mime.xml, debian/postinst, debian/postrm |
| 10:31.28 | konttori | thanks |
| 10:31.48 | RST38h | konttori: Also, as file opening is done via DBus, you will have to look at EMULib/Maemo/LibMaemo.c at some point |
| 10:32.04 | konttori | ok. I'll check some python example for that |
| 10:32.36 | RST38h | python will probably work similarly, except I do not know how it will get started |
| 10:33.33 | RST38h | looks like you have to run your app as a dbus service to open files like that |
| 10:33.35 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki_ (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 10:34.20 | *** join/#maemo pH5 (n=ph5@g229065192.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 10:42.51 | VDVsx | packaging/cdbs experts, any help ? : http://pastebin.ca/1548125 |
| 10:44.19 | *** join/#maemo __t (n=t@port-92-195-12-104.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 10:44.26 | qwerty12_N810 | You sure debian/rules is marked executable? :) |
| 10:44.31 | qwerty12_N810 | +as |
| 10:45.24 | VDVsx | lame :( |
| 10:45.28 | VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, thanks :) |
| 10:45.49 | VDVsx | +1 beer for you ;) |
| 10:46.02 | qwerty12_N810 | lol |
| 10:46.11 | timeless_mbp | grumbles |
| 10:46.24 | timeless_mbp | why/how did Frozen Bubble get into extra(-devel) for fremantle? |
| 10:46.37 | timeless_mbp | it depends on libgl1 which doesn't seem to be available |
| 10:47.15 | wnd | had you used debuild, it would have taken care of that x-bit automagically ;-) |
| 10:47.42 | qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: it's my turn to grumble :( |
| 10:47.56 | timeless_mbp | about what do you wish to grumble? |
| 10:48.20 | qwerty12_N810 | About libgl1... I uploaded it there, as it worked in the SDK |
| 10:48.47 | lcukx41 | haha |
| 10:48.53 | VDVsx | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/frozen-bubble/2.2.0-1maemo1 |
| 10:49.02 | VDVsx | everthing is satisfied ;) |
| 10:49.13 | *** join/#maemo veiz (n=veiz@222.210.202.25) |
| 10:49.20 | timeless_mbp | well, ham complains about libgl1 and perl |
| 10:49.33 | qwerty12_N810 | Perl... that one can be solved easily |
| 10:49.45 | qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: check sdlperl perhaps? :) |
| 10:50.16 | RST38h | cannot believe frozen bubble is done in perl |
| 10:50.34 | qwerty12_N810 | I can't be arsed to deal with the shitty way GL is done in Fremantle ATM |
| 10:50.44 | VDVsx | its here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_sdk_free_armel/libgl1/7.1~RC3-0maemo1-recomp1/ |
| 10:50.57 | lcukx41 | is there *any* mobile device with native standard gl? |
| 10:51.01 | *** join/#maemo timeless_n900 (n=timeless@a88-115-8-36.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 10:51.21 | timeless_n900 | hello world |
| 10:51.27 | lcukx41 | ooo poshbosh |
| 10:51.32 | VDVsx | ah but those packages are only in the SDK repo, nice ;) |
| 10:51.49 | lcukx41 | timeless, xchat? |
| 10:52.13 | timeless_n900 | telnet |
| 10:52.23 | lcukx41 | haha |
| 10:52.39 | qwerty12_N810 | wonders about how secure Finnish homes are... |
| 10:53.11 | timeless_mbp | perl is not installable |
| 10:53.21 | lcukx41 | qwerty, but timeless is american, however secure lol, he will leave a key under a plantpot or something |
| 10:53.25 | VDVsx | sends ninjas to steal timeless_mbp's n900 |
| 10:53.50 | timeless_mbp | we aren't supposed to leave them lying around |
| 10:53.52 | qwerty12_N810 | lcukx41: haha |
| 10:54.01 | timeless_mbp | and i'd be terribly annoyed if you bothered my sister and her friend |
| 10:54.07 | timeless_mbp | it'd make a really bad last impression |
| 10:54.40 | timeless_mbp | oh |
| 10:54.43 | timeless_mbp | you don't want to rely on perl |
| 10:54.48 | timeless_mbp | you probably want perl-base or something |
| 10:55.14 | qwerty12_N810 | No, afaik, FB needs stuff from perl-modules |
| 10:55.17 | timeless_mbp | we have perl-base 5.8.3-something in the repo |
| 10:55.21 | timeless_mbp | s/repo/device |
| 10:55.47 | timeless_mbp | well |
| 10:55.50 | timeless_mbp | file a bug against something |
| 10:55.55 | timeless_mbp | the sdk fwiw is typically broken |
| 10:55.57 | timeless_mbp | as shown here |
| 10:56.05 | timeless_mbp | it should *not* provide things that aren't in the product :) |
| 10:56.17 | VDVsx | lololol, right |
| 10:56.27 | *** join/#maemo yerga (n=yerga@87.223.74.91) |
| 10:56.56 | timeless_mbp | got tired of irc over telnet |
| 10:57.02 | qwerty12_N810 | show off |
| 10:57.16 | lcukx41 | thinks he just renamed his laptop :P |
| 10:57.38 | lcuk_n_over9000 | :D |
| 10:57.59 | qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: XChat builds for Fremantle BTW, so if you've got a SDK install... :p |
| 10:58.05 | timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: the hardest part about ... |
| 10:58.10 | timeless_mbp | um, does the sdk work on osx ?: ) |
| 10:58.24 | timeless_mbp | the hardest part about irc over telnet on the n900 is the login procedure |
| 10:58.32 | qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: no, it requires a real computer, with a real os |
| 10:58.34 | timeless_mbp | you have a short timeout, and have to type: |
| 10:58.34 | qwerty12_N810 | lol |
| 10:58.39 | timeless_mbp | user timeless timeless timeless timeless |
| 10:58.40 | lcukx41 | liqbase needs better irc caps |
| 10:59.02 | timeless_mbp | gave up and used copy+paste in xterminal |
| 10:59.21 | lcukx41 | i really like middle mouse click pasting in term |
| 10:59.31 | lcukx41 | i didnt think i would ever get used to it |
| 11:00.08 | lcukx41 | jeremiah, i just saw on the maemo wiki notes about dll versions |
| 11:00.13 | lcukx41 | libxsp |
| 11:00.39 | lcukx41 | when i looked in the first beta im sure it didnt exist |
| 11:00.51 | lcukx41 | or am i mixing up the x41 stuff again |
| 11:03.40 | lcukx41 | goes for lunch |
| 11:03.46 | lcukx41 | anyone want bacon butties? |
| 11:03.57 | timeless_mbp | wants a pony |
| 11:04.14 | RST38h | in harmattan. |
| 11:04.17 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=slonopot@80.90.124.131) |
| 11:04.17 | lcukx41 | swap ya for your n900 |
| 11:04.27 | lcukx41 | has a pony |
| 11:04.40 | lcukx41 | its a bit scabby |
| 11:04.49 | *** join/#maemo Federico2 (n=fede@unaffiliated/federico2) |
| 11:04.54 | Federico2 | hi there |
| 11:04.56 | lcukx41 | but you didnt indicate any quality conditons |
| 11:05.02 | lcukx41 | hi Federico2 |
| 11:05.56 | RST38h | lcuk: slightly used? |
| 11:06.09 | lcukx41 | very used |
| 11:06.18 | lcukx41 | it used to be a standin for the donkeys on the beach |
| 11:06.55 | lcukx41 | bbl anyway, timeless my offer stands |
| 11:07.25 | timeless_mbp | heh, sorry, i don't own any n900's, so i can't swap them |
| 11:07.37 | *** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@a88-113-7-36.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 11:08.26 | qwerty12_N810 | I'll give you a pony that you just need to put in the oven if you steal the N900 and give it to me |
| 11:09.33 | Federico2 | ponies are not for nom |
| 11:10.02 | qwerty12_N810 | Sure they are! They're delicious fried. And a bit of mayo helps |
| 11:10.23 | timeless_mbp | they aren't kosher |
| 11:11.08 | qwerty12_N810 | Hmm... Some Quorn in the shape of a pony then? |
| 11:12.27 | Federico2 | agreed |
| 11:12.58 | *** join/#maemo BluesLee (n=malik197@ip-62-143-233-203.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 11:13.30 | *** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman) |
| 11:13.52 | lcukx41 | a perl script in the shape of a pony is more topical! |
| 11:13.58 | *** join/#maemo _mxb_ (i=en@open.bsd.org.ru) |
| 11:14.30 | qwerty12_N810 | Just add liqpony to the playground, already |
| 11:15.10 | lcukx41 | i might if i get the other stuff done lol |
| 11:15.24 | timeless_mbp | prefers perl dolphin crypto |
| 11:16.55 | lcukx41 | qwerty12_N810, your mention of continuous flashing concerns me somewhat |
| 11:17.00 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@9.148.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 11:17.47 | lcukx41 | mmm tho i wonder if running in windowed mode will remove that entirely anyway |
| 11:17.58 | lcukx41 | since the xv overlay wouldnt be running at 800*480 |
| 11:18.06 | lcukx41 | which was the only place it was ever noticed |
| 11:18.10 | lcukx41 | mmm |
| 11:18.59 | lcukx41 | qwerty12, i hope you dont mind i altered the postinst when i brought it over |
| 11:19.15 | qwerty12_N810 | Why would I mind? |
| 11:19.37 | lcukx41 | i added a message to the "updating cache" message :P |
| 11:19.47 | lcukx41 | "qwerty12 is a southern jessie" |
| 11:19.53 | qwerty12_N810 | Asshole |
| 11:19.54 | qwerty12_N810 | :p |
| 11:20.03 | lcukx41 | and it is in the postinst template for all liq* apps :P |
| 11:20.19 | lcukx41 | payback :D |
| 11:20.34 | lcukx41 | the notification doofer is better than a message |
| 11:20.47 | lcukx41 | cos no1 has the chance to approve/cancel, its just fact :P |
| 11:21.32 | lcukx41 | ( it really says "thanks to qwerty12" :) |
| 11:25.37 | *** join/#maemo fnordianslip (n=fnoridan@94-30-69-47.xdsl.murphx.net) |
| 11:33.21 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N810 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 11:33.47 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@cpc3-oldh7-0-0-cust590.manc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 11:44.22 | *** join/#maemo koos (n=koos@e176153021.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:44.45 | *** join/#maemo mcpi (n=user@p579B948C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:50.03 | rkirti | ~seen tuxmaniac |
| 11:50.06 | infobot | tuxmaniac <n=aanjhan@unaffiliated/tuxmaniac> was last seen on IRC in channel #gsoc, 148d 16h 50m 4s ago, saying: '0'. |
| 11:51.37 | *** join/#maemo ziyourenxiang (n=ziyouren@unaffiliated/ziyourenxiang) |
| 11:52.11 | lcuk | rkirti, thats a looooooooooong time ago |
| 11:53.42 | koos | is gdb on maemo5-beta2 broken? I get 'free(): invalid pointer' errors and a core dump afterwards when starting an app |
| 11:53.57 | rkirti | lcuk: yeah,all my devel friends are active only on channels that are not covered by infobot |
| 11:54.28 | lcuk | under the radar |
| 11:54.39 | lcuk | sometimes a good place to be :) |
| 12:00.40 | koos | I wonder maybe my scratchbox-toolchain-cs2007q3-glibc2.5-i486_1.0.12-8_i386.deb is too new |
| 12:03.50 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:04.21 | RST38h | koos: what makes you think it is gdb and not the app you are debugging? |
| 12:05.42 | koos | RST38h: because it crashes gdb and crashes w/ the maemo-examples and crashes w/ the core file 'gdb gdb core' |
| 12:06.18 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:06.31 | koos | RST38h:but it works for you in the x86 mode? |
| 12:11.45 | Macer | hm |
| 12:11.51 | Macer | they're going to start closing post offices soon |
| 12:11.52 | Macer | :) |
| 12:12.14 | koos | RST38h:btw. switching to diablo-x86 gdb works just fine |
| 12:13.12 | *** join/#maemo jadams (n=jadams@68.185.240.176) |
| 12:13.47 | *** join/#maemo inigoalonso (n=quassel@121.Red-88-11-123.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 12:16.06 | *** join/#maemo mlpug (n=mlpug@88.115.164.40) |
| 12:21.10 | *** join/#maemo MaceN8x0 (n=macer@rancorous.net) |
| 12:25.24 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@144.84-49-131.nextgentel.com) |
| 12:25.25 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:25.34 | RST38h | koo |
| 12:27.04 | RST38h | n |
| 12:27.17 | RST38h | koos: oh you are doing it in scratchbox.. |
| 12:27.20 | RST38h | ]]] |
| 12:27.26 | RST38h | Anything can happen in scratchbox. |
| 12:29.05 | koos | RST38h:Uhm, so where have you installed maemo5-beta2? |
| 12:29.08 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (n=fuchs@f054164148.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 12:29.18 | RST38h | I have not |
| 12:29.27 | RST38h | As to Maemo4, I am debuggin on the actual device |
| 12:29.53 | RST38h | After finding out that trying to open a file dialog crashes applications in Scratchbox |
| 12:30.38 | koos | RST38h:like mentioned, diablo works fine for me (indeed gnome-vfs init may hang gdb occasionally) |
| 12:31.21 | koos | deadlocks afaiks |
| 12:32.54 | koos | actually, the app hangs, not gdb as I could ^C and get a bt |
| 12:35.56 | RST38h | ah |
| 12:36.15 | RST38h | uses sb2 to compile, as sb1 does not let him use host file syste, |
| 12:36.29 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:41.38 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 12:43.07 | Meizirkki | phew, i'm getting my KDE back :P |
| 12:43.25 | Meizirkki | not really maemo related, but i love apt-pinning |
| 12:44.02 | Meizirkki | i was stupid enough to break my kubuntu-box by installing karmic kde |
| 12:45.15 | RST38h | "karmic" in the name should have been a hint =) |
| 12:46.48 | *** join/#maemo ustunozgur_ (n=ustun@88.232.93.251) |
| 12:47.45 | zerojayPC | lol |
| 12:55.19 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (n=fuchs@f054164148.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 12:57.56 | *** join/#maemo Omegamoon (n=egoe@demolitionman.xs4all.nl) |
| 12:59.00 | *** join/#maemo lopz (i=gentoo@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 12:59.22 | lopz | hi |
| 13:00.39 | javispedro | lol this is ... |
| 13:00.49 | javispedro | tmo has degenerated so much they're already discussing free energy |
| 13:01.23 | javispedro | what's next? "10 things you're going to love about the N900" digg-like posts? |
| 13:02.32 | qwerty12_N810 | "iPhone transformation pack for N900" |
| 13:02.33 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@a213-22-69-165.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 13:02.52 | wazd | "n900 transformation pack for iPhone" :D |
| 13:03.25 | qwerty12_N810 | That's easy: 1) Burn iPhone 2) Buy N900 3) Profit :p |
| 13:03.26 | javispedro | .... |
| 13:03.59 | javispedro | make 1) "Sell iPhone to Apple fanboy wannabe" and you may actually have a Profit. |
| 13:04.19 | *** join/#maemo hannesw_ (n=hannes@91-115-209-207.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 13:05.54 | javispedro | just notices the autobuilder created a nearly empty openttd-dbg package :( |
| 13:06.37 | javispedro | lol my fault, my local test package was also empty :P |
| 13:08.29 | *** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman) |
| 13:09.40 | javispedro | btw, what's the new package (debian/control) icon size for Fremantle? |
| 13:15.15 | *** join/#maemo krutt (n=mk@p4FC32A56.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:15.59 | VDVsx | wonders how will be the Nokla n900 |
| 13:16.19 | VDVsx | javispedro, I'm using the same as in diablo |
| 13:16.28 | *** join/#maemo rkirti (n=oespirit@203.199.213.3) |
| 13:16.40 | zerojayPC | GAN800: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=318266&postcount=1 - Just say no! |
| 13:17.38 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 13:20.39 | *** join/#maemo MaceN8x0 (n=macer@rancorous.net) |
| 13:21.51 | MaceN8x0 | /dev/mmcblk0p2 none swap sw 0 0 |
| 13:21.57 | MaceN8x0 | am i missing something? |
| 13:22.07 | MaceN8x0 | the swap doesn't seem to initialize on boot in maemo |
| 13:24.16 | *** join/#maemo rkirti (n=oespirit@203.199.213.3) |
| 13:25.20 | MaceN8x0 | blah |
| 13:27.04 | timeless_mbp | as far as i know the icon size hasn't changed |
| 13:30.13 | *** join/#maemo JvA (n=jva@sysi-00.sysinst.ida.liu.se) |
| 13:32.38 | RST38h | Macer: Have you actually created swap there? |
| 13:34.05 | JvA | Hi! I'm coding a small status bar plugin on my N810 using C. I've managed to compile it (.so-file) and create a .desktop file. My problem is that even though I've placed them in the right place, the plugin doesn't seem get launched after a reboot. |
| 13:34.20 | JvA | Can I manually start the plugin, or force the status bar to reread all plugins available? |
| 13:34.28 | *** join/#maemo rkirti (n=oespirit@203.199.213.3) |
| 13:34.34 | JvA | So I somehow can get an error message or something telling me what I'm doing wrong. |
| 13:36.16 | zerojayPC | Does it show up in the list of plugins for the status bar in Control Panel? |
| 13:36.24 | zerojayPC | And do you have it enabled there? |
| 13:37.58 | JvA | oh, let's check that |
| 13:38.15 | JvA | Oh yes :) |
| 13:38.27 | JvA | I see it + the right icon in a list |
| 13:38.41 | zerojayPC | Was it also enabled? |
| 13:38.42 | JvA | However, I just have OK, arrow up, arrow down and Cancel as buttons? How do I enable it? |
| 13:39.02 | zerojayPC | Should be a checkbox next to it. |
| 13:39.05 | JvA | Note: It's not a desktop applet, it's a status bar applet. |
| 13:39.41 | zerojayPC | There's a checkbox to the right of each status bar applet listed. |
| 13:39.55 | zerojayPC | Those that do not have the checkbox enabled are not shown. |
| 13:40.10 | zerojayPC | So find your plugin on the list, enable the checkbox and hit OK. |
| 13:41.53 | zerojayPC | Did you find it? |
| 13:42.28 | JvA | In the Control Panel I click on Panels then I get a window with two tabs, one saying Statusfält (Status field). In that tab I see my plugin, but no checkboxes. |
| 13:43.19 | zerojayPC | They should be on the right, next to the scrollbar. one for each. |
| 13:43.53 | zerojayPC | Do you see 'Battery', 'Sound' and the others there? |
| 13:43.57 | JvA | Yes |
| 13:44.10 | zerojayPC | You don't see checkboxes for those either? |
| 13:44.21 | JvA | No |
| 13:44.31 | zerojayPC | Are you running latest Diablo? |
| 13:44.34 | JvA | I'm running Diablo OS 2008 |
| 13:45.00 | zerojayPC | You should be able to choose which of the status bar plugins to show or hide there. |
| 13:45.22 | *** join/#maemo ziyourenxiang (n=ziyouren@unaffiliated/ziyourenxiang) |
| 13:45.38 | JvA | Ok, but perhaps there's a way to do it manually? |
| 13:45.39 | zerojayPC | The up and down buttons rearrange the order of the plugins in the status bar. |
| 13:46.46 | JvA | You're right, the help manual (clicked on ?) says exactly the same, but I still don't see any checkboxes. Very weird |
| 13:47.25 | zerojayPC | Some will be dimmed for status icons you can't remove (presence). |
| 13:47.30 | zerojayPC | Strange. |
| 13:47.40 | zerojayPC | Are you sure you're on the most recent version of Diablo? |
| 13:47.53 | JvA | Yes, downloaded and installed the firmware image 2 days ago |
| 13:48.20 | JvA | hmm |
| 13:48.44 | JvA | Let's say I've done something wrong in my .desktop-file. Could it mess up the Control Panel? Let's try to delete my .desktop file. |
| 13:49.06 | *** join/#maemo borism (n=boris@195.50.205.224) |
| 13:49.31 | zerojay | I would imagine it's possible. |
| 13:50.06 | JvA | Deleted it, my plugin disappeared from the list but otherwise, no difference. |
| 13:50.22 | zerojay | Try rebooting. |
| 13:50.26 | *** join/#maemo melmoth (n=melmoth@lec67-1-81-56-33-6.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:50.54 | JvA | yep |
| 13:52.16 | JvA | no difference |
| 13:56.15 | *** join/#maemo MrGoose (n=cache@5ac86e7c.bb.sky.com) |
| 13:56.30 | JvA | I can move them around and it changes the order in the status bar. |
| 13:56.36 | JvA | So at least it obeys me to some point |
| 13:58.29 | *** join/#maemo haoyu (n=bhy@cm3.delta26.maxonline.com.sg) |
| 13:58.48 | haoyu | hi, is that possible to run Maemo on EeePC? |
| 13:59.28 | timeless_mbp | You should be able to try to run Mer on it |
| 13:59.59 | timeless_mbp | note that Maemo as delivered by Nokia is for ARM processors |
| 14:00.05 | timeless_mbp | EeePC runs on Intel processors |
| 14:00.13 | timeless_mbp | Nokia provides an SDK for Intel |
| 14:00.30 | timeless_mbp | whereas Mer (based on Maemo) is provided as a full platform for both Intel and ARM |
| 14:01.37 | haoyu | ah, so sound Mer is the one for me. ok will take a look for Mer |
| 14:02.15 | zerojayPC | And please don't go expecting to see all the whiz-bang effects of Maemo 5 either... Mer/SDK are not meant to give you a preview of the N900. |
| 14:02.17 | *** join/#maemo GiantTalkingCow (n=GiantTal@adsl-75-62-238-92.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 14:02.55 | timeless_mbp | ponders |
| 14:03.05 | timeless_mbp | anyone here willing to help me write some perl? |
| 14:03.09 | timeless_mbp | otherwise i get to fight strings |
| 14:03.10 | lcuk | lol |
| 14:03.11 | RST38h | haoyu: you can run ubunrtu on eeepc |
| 14:03.11 | pillar | has there been an increase of people asking how to run maemo on their laptop after n900 announcement? |
| 14:03.19 | *** join/#maemo ustunozgur_ (n=ustun@88.232.93.251) |
| 14:03.27 | RST38h | no. |
| 14:03.37 | zerojayPC | Yes, most of them because they want to see the UI effects from the N900 for themselves. |
| 14:03.38 | haoyu | RST38h, I know, I know I can run ubuntu on eeepc, but I want to try something else.... |
| 14:04.12 | zerojayPC | I can't tell you how many of my friends have been asking me for that and then got disappointed because they were expecting a live N900 demo on their desktop. |
| 14:04.25 | pillar | heh |
| 14:04.31 | *** join/#maemo __t (n=t@port-92-195-12-104.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 14:04.36 | timeless_mbp | zerojay: heh |
| 14:04.41 | haoyu | is maemo opensource? can't we directly build a maemo for x86? |
| 14:04.44 | lcuk | zerojayPC, from my perspective, i seem to see a lot of the effects on liqbase 810 every day :) |
| 14:04.53 | RST38h | well, you can run Fremantle (maemo2005) inside scratchbox in ubuntu running on eeepc |
| 14:05.19 | zerojayPC | lcuk: Because you're stoned. ;P |
| 14:05.32 | zerojayPC | jk |
| 14:05.33 | lcuk | the videos ive seen might have more polish but i have a zooming desktop and nice fast kinetics |
| 14:05.37 | slonopotamus | haoyu, not 100% |
| 14:05.52 | haoyu | okey I know... |
| 14:05.57 | zerojayPC | I haven't played with it in a while. I'll reinstall it. |
| 14:06.37 | lcuk | i have only pushed one test engine build of the playground to the repositories |
| 14:06.59 | timeless_mbp | RST38h: 2005?? |
| 14:07.14 | zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: Yeah, I was wondering about that too. |
| 14:10.44 | slonopotamus | ~ping |
| 14:10.45 | infobot | ~pong |
| 14:16.37 | RST38h | s/2005/2009 sorry |
| 14:16.47 | RST38h | is sloppy, compiling MAME |
| 14:17.47 | timeless_mbp | hey, is Bluetooth LAN = PAN? |
| 14:18.01 | AStorm | yes |
| 14:18.08 | AStorm | at least, usually |
| 14:18.28 | RST38h | ah hey astorm |
| 14:19.06 | AStorm | there are also bluetooth full LAN devices though |
| 14:19.24 | timeless_mbp | eh? |
| 14:21.01 | AStorm | yeah, bluetooth APs supporting full LAN protocol, not just PAN |
| 14:21.11 | AStorm | PAN is the bastardized version for small devices |
| 14:22.59 | RST38h | Hmmm...MAME compiled. Now the scariest part... |
| 14:23.13 | AStorm | running or writing DSP assembly to make it work reasonably fast? :> |
| 14:23.56 | RST38h | Running. |
| 14:24.09 | RST38h | No idea how to supply it with the roms even |
| 14:24.12 | AStorm | it will run very very slow |
| 14:24.22 | RST38h | That we will see |
| 14:25.18 | RST38h | Maybe I should run it on Ubuntu first though |
| 14:26.31 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx_ (n=valerio@bl5-195-199.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 14:28.28 | *** part/#maemo tlir (n=tlir@bzq-179-128-126.static.bezeqint.net) |
| 14:29.35 | glass_ | AStorm: it will depend largely on what the rom is |
| 14:29.54 | glass_ | AStorm: there was a mame port for s60 v1 and it could run some old(think pacman) roms ok |
| 14:30.42 | zerojayPC | RST38h: Compiling it for the tablets? |
| 14:31.22 | zerojayPC | RST38h: There's a command line option for the ROM directory, throw pacman into it and see if it runs. |
| 14:32.48 | RST38h | zerojay: not for the tablets |
| 14:32.51 | RST38h | I see... |
| 14:33.17 | GAN800 | zerojayPC, weeeeee! |
| 14:33.31 | glass_ | theres popular front ends |
| 14:33.52 | glass_ | like xmame.. well i don't know if it technically counts as a front end but anyhow |
| 14:33.58 | zerojayPC | RST38h: You can run mame with 'mame -createconfig' to create a mame.ini file that you can edit with all your parameters instead. |
| 14:34.03 | zerojayPC | xmame's dead. |
| 14:34.09 | zerojayPC | Been dead for like.. 3 years. |
| 14:34.10 | RST38h | Ehehehe, compiling cyclone.s on x86 is gonna be a problem :))) |
| 14:34.25 | glass_ | ah |
| 14:34.39 | RST38h | Looks like I have no other choice but run it on ARM. |
| 14:34.47 | GAN800 | zerojayPC, I like nilchak's reply. |
| 14:35.24 | RST38h | You only like it because it refers to Wiki, GAN :) |
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| 14:37.31 | Stskeeps | yawns |
| 14:38.04 | GAN800 | :roll: |
| 14:38.19 | timeless_mbp | grumbles |
| 14:38.23 | timeless_mbp | these strings don't make any sense: |
| 14:38.56 | Stskeeps | 'the program 1 is now installed' |
| 14:39.29 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 14:41.09 | Stskeeps | ~[6~(in danish) |
| 14:41.44 | RST38h | bye bye partition table |
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| 14:45.20 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: heh |
| 14:46.53 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: 1 application successfully installed |
| 14:47.01 | timeless_mbp | the first question i have is whether you can install more than one :) |
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| 15:00.27 | timeless_mbp | heh |
| 15:00.36 | timeless_mbp | there's an iPhone w/in bluetooth range of my apt |
| 15:01.39 | slonopotamus | looks like gentoo-on-n8x0 will get sound soon |
| 15:01.46 | suihkulokki | timeless_mbp: send the n900 advertizment video to it! |
| 15:01.51 | zerojayPC | lol |
| 15:01.55 | timeless_mbp | rotfl |
| 15:02.01 | timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: is it on my n900? |
| 15:02.17 | zerojayPC | When I was downtown at a public access point, I sent out 1.mp3 to about 40 people. |
| 15:02.19 | zerojayPC | It was amazing. |
| 15:02.21 | suihkulokki | no idea |
| 15:02.32 | zerojayPC | 1.mp3 was the theme song to The Price Is Right. |
| 15:02.34 | GiantTalkingCow | I really wish Nokia would release a non-phone version of the n900. I don't need a phone, and sure as hell don't want a contract. Here in the US, mobile contracts are barbaric to say the least. |
| 15:02.41 | zerojayPC | So I started hearing it all over the place. lol |
| 15:03.08 | zerojayPC | Buy it from a flagship store and ignore the phone then. |
| 15:03.42 | timeless_mbp | GiantTalkingCow: i wish people would wish elsewhere |
| 15:03.47 | timeless_mbp | if wishes were horses .... |
| 15:03.55 | zerojayPC | I want a pony. |
| 15:03.59 | timeless_mbp | GiantTalkingCow: you could try contacting Nokia Care |
| 15:04.06 | Stskeeps | sometimes i am happy i live in europe, where tele markets are at least a little sane |
| 15:04.10 | timeless_mbp | but i'd suggest you wait until *after* the n900 goes on sale |
| 15:04.29 | GiantTalkingCow | Stskeeps: And the technology's also not in the damned Stone Age. |
| 15:04.43 | timeless_mbp | just software :) |
| 15:04.59 | Stskeeps | GiantTalkingCow: nothing stops you from using it as an internet tablet AFAIK |
| 15:05.22 | zerojayPC | Exactly. |
| 15:05.39 | Stskeeps | and when you want a phone, or 3g data, you have the chipst for it |
| 15:06.05 | GiantTalkingCow | Stskeeps: I suppose not, but seeing as it's being sold as a phone, getting one without a contract will cost an arm and a leg, whereas if it were sold as a tablet, the price would likely be a tad more reasonable. Oh well, I may end up getting one anyhow, if there's no Android device out by then that catches my eye. |
| 15:06.35 | Stskeeps | tbh for what it contains, even without the 3g part.. it isn't a bad price |
| 15:06.37 | RST38h | Hmmmm... Why did Flash 9.4 thread went to Offtopic on t.m.oz? |
| 15:08.04 | *** join/#maemo lardman (n=vircuser@78.145.165.218) |
| 15:08.13 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 15:08.18 | lardman | 'noon all |
| 15:08.48 | derf | Morning lardman. |
| 15:09.02 | timeless_mbp | GiantTalkingCow: so |
| 15:09.06 | timeless_mbp | the cost was announced |
| 15:09.09 | timeless_mbp | and it's an unlocked cost |
| 15:09.51 | timeless_mbp | you'd have to buy it from the nokia store |
| 15:09.56 | timeless_mbp | but i'm sure we'll gladly take your money |
| 15:10.08 | timeless_mbp | RST38h: =~ s/went to/go/ |
| 15:10.10 | lardman | hi derf |
| 15:10.34 | timeless_mbp | GiantTalkingCow: the cost for this product is not much higher than the previous products |
| 15:10.54 | javispedro | sorry for leaving previously without notice (isp cut me) |
| 15:11.18 | derf | timeless_mbp: Weren't the others closer to â¬400 instead of â¬550? |
| 15:11.19 | javispedro | I was asking for the h-a-m pkg icon size because some icons in the Games section in fremantle extras-devel are bigger |
| 15:11.30 | javispedro | e.g. Mad Bomber. |
| 15:11.33 | timeless_mbp | derf: wasn't the quoted price 500, not 550? |
| 15:11.57 | derf | I thought I saw 550. I could be wrong. |
| 15:12.00 | timeless_mbp | http://www.google.com/search?q=n900%20500&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 |
| 15:12.02 | lardman | 500 euro iirc |
| 15:12.16 | derf | That's still 25%. |
| 15:12.44 | lardman | yep |
| 15:12.51 | javispedro | VDVsx, supertux seems to use a larger package icon too. |
| 15:13.00 | lardman | also add in tech product price deflation |
| 15:13.02 | derf | Which some might not view as "not much". |
| 15:13.11 | Myrtti | moo |
| 15:13.19 | timeless_mbp | derf: perhaps, there's also a faster cpu, more ram, more flash, a non lame camera, and working gps |
| 15:13.21 | VDVsx | javispedro, what icon ? |
| 15:13.27 | javispedro | VDVsx, debian/control one. |
| 15:13.44 | *** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=CBabbage@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 15:13.45 | VDVsx | javispedro, as I said same as in diablo |
| 15:13.49 | derf | timeless_mbp: Right, which is why I'm not comparing it to the cost of an N810 _now_. |
| 15:13.50 | javispedro | 26x26? |
| 15:14.00 | javispedro | grabs pixel ruler |
| 15:14.46 | timeless_mbp | hrm |
| 15:14.50 | timeless_mbp | it does look to be bigger than before |
| 15:15.06 | javispedro | timeless, are you looking at the pkg icons? |
| 15:15.11 | timeless_mbp | yep |
| 15:15.19 | javispedro | compared with the simsu one, supertux is definitely bigger |
| 15:15.27 | timeless_mbp | the mad bomber icon fwiw is *small* here |
| 15:15.31 | VDVsx | javispedro, yes, I used 'uuencode -m' |
| 15:15.43 | javispedro | VDVsx, not "byte" size but picture size |
| 15:15.54 | RST38h | 499 euros |
| 15:15.58 | timeless_mbp | javispedro: look for the bluemaemo icon |
| 15:16.01 | timeless_mbp | it's the proper size |
| 15:16.04 | timeless_mbp | ok? |
| 15:16.05 | RST38h | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:16.19 | VDVsx | javispedro, 26x26, I guess |
| 15:16.25 | timeless_mbp | VDVsx: don't guess |
| 15:16.28 | timeless_mbp | has hardware handy |
| 15:16.31 | *** join/#maemo n6pfk (n=mike@96.238.186.191) |
| 15:16.31 | VDVsx | javispedro, at least should be |
| 15:16.32 | javispedro | Going to make a screenshot |
| 15:16.42 | lardman | timeless_mbp: dmesg then? ;) |
| 15:16.56 | timeless_mbp | lardman: sorry |
| 15:16.57 | VDVsx | javispedro, h-a-m works for you ? (m5 sdk) |
| 15:17.04 | lardman | timeless_mbp: I know :) |
| 15:17.08 | javispedro | VDVsx, yes, but it can't install anything |
| 15:17.20 | VDVsx | javispedro, mine don't show anything |
| 15:17.27 | javispedro | VDVsx, fakeroot apt-get install fakeroot-net |
| 15:17.31 | javispedro | (in sb context) |
| 15:17.43 | VDVsx | javispedro, ok ;) |
| 15:18.19 | javispedro | btw, if you want to laugh a bit: http://depot.javispedro.com/MadHAM.png |
| 15:18.26 | javispedro | (check the pkg sizes) |
| 15:18.33 | zerojayPC | lardman: Nice try. ;) |
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| 15:19.05 | VDVsx | javispedro, negative size :P |
| 15:19.21 | javispedro | We have to tell conny to stop bloating its note taking app ;) |
| 15:19.31 | javispedro | *his. |
| 15:20.47 | javispedro | considers submitting that screenshot to thedailywtf, but since it would start an iphone-n900 flamewars decides it's not worth it. |
| 15:21.50 | qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: edit ~/.osso/hildon-application-manager and set assume-connection to 1 if you wish to install stuff with it |
| 15:22.00 | javispedro | oh, thanks qwerty12_N810 |
| 15:22.36 | qwerty12_N810 | Well, kinda... |
| 15:22.42 | qwerty12_N810 | It seems :\ |
| 15:22.49 | javispedro | ok, now this is weird |
| 15:23.06 | javispedro | my DOSBox package appears with a "Folder" icon instead of |
| 15:23.11 | javispedro | * The icon I put in debian/control |
| 15:23.14 | RST38h | Yahoooooo! MAME printed me a page of info |
| 15:23.17 | javispedro | * The default package icon |
| 15:23.35 | RST38h | javispedro: you should photoshop it for more inflammatory content |
| 15:23.48 | RST38h | javispedro: or claim something weird about it |
| 15:23.51 | qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: dpkg-deb crashes with sigfpe :p |
| 15:24.22 | javispedro | RST38h, that site is very pro-microsoft. I DON'T want to even imagine what would come out of it. |
| 15:25.52 | Stskeeps | gah, where's wazd |
| 15:26.53 | *** join/#maemo z4chh (n=zach@128.194.74.219) |
| 15:28.31 | javispedro | ah, I think the "folder" icon means broken package. |
| 15:30.24 | *** join/#maemo svu (n=svu@89.100.187.26) |
| 15:31.07 | javispedro | fwiw, the screenshot with the icon size mess: http://depot.javispedro.com/MadHAM2.png |
| 15:31.25 | javispedro | (in the usual "happy colors") |
| 15:32.56 | VDVsx | javispedro, ah supertux is 48x48 ;) |
| 15:32.57 | javispedro | lol, supertux was also "bloated" ;) |
| 15:33.12 | jeremiah | puffy tux! |
| 15:33.31 | VDVsx | javispedro, looks better than 26x26, IMO |
| 15:33.34 | javispedro | yeah |
| 15:33.39 | javispedro | we should standarize |
| 15:33.52 | lcuk | 80*48 is a nice thumb size :) |
| 15:33.55 | javispedro | but then, Xb-Maemo-Icon-26 followed by a 48x48 icon would look weird |
| 15:33.57 | VDVsx | javispedro, let me check one thing ;) |
| 15:34.23 | kirma | bloated? can't be :) |
| 15:34.38 | javispedro | 858 TiB is a bit bloated, I think ;) |
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| 15:35.06 | lcuk | tux should diet |
| 15:35.28 | lcuk | or just render him at 26*48 |
| 15:35.37 | javispedro | attitude, instead, needs to gain some weight. |
| 15:35.42 | VDVsx | lolol |
| 15:35.44 | zerojayPC | GeneralAntilles: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=318310&postcount=12 |
| 15:35.56 | lcuk | what does attitude look like |
| 15:36.04 | javispedro | lcuk, http://depot.javispedro.com/MadHAM2.png |
| 15:36.15 | javispedro | (check the pkg size :P) |
| 15:36.25 | GAN8001 | zerojayPC, magic! |
| 15:36.45 | lcuk | theres some funky things goin on in your xepyhr |
| 15:37.16 | javispedro | i'm an specialist :) |
| 15:37.28 | javispedro | in that screenshot you can see nearly 3 bugs |
| 15:37.30 | *** join/#maemo eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-12-23.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 15:37.32 | javispedro | well, 4. |
| 15:37.40 | javispedro | * the colors swapped bug. |
| 15:37.45 | javispedro | * the "mad" package size bug. |
| 15:37.58 | javispedro | * the "we need to standarize on a better icon size" feature request |
| 15:38.11 | javispedro | * and the "why do broken packages get a folder icon" bug |
| 15:38.27 | *** join/#maemo ArSa (n=ArSa@173-25-26-173.client.mchsi.com) |
| 15:39.49 | javispedro | fortunately, none of them happen on real device. |
| 15:40.37 | lcuk | did you put bug reports in anyway |
| 15:40.46 | lcuk | or was the confermation obtained after registering bugs |
| 15:40.52 | javispedro | only for the colors issue so far ;) |
| 15:41.14 | javispedro | for the others i think i will delete my dpkg database before submitting them... |
| 15:41.24 | lcuk | heh |
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| 15:49.41 | RST38h | javispedro: so 26x26 is too small? |
| 15:49.55 | RST38h | javispedro: can't 40x40 be used in the app manager? |
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| 15:50.19 | javispedro | RST38h, I think this speaks by itself http://depot.javispedro.com/MadHAM2.png, considering most icons save for the folder and supertux are 26x26 |
| 15:50.24 | javispedro | supertux icon is 48x48 |
| 15:51.30 | javispedro | I would settle for 48x48 icon size, but then there's the problem that the Maemo spec says "26x26" (in fact, the field name is Xb-Maemo-Icon-26) |
| 15:53.40 | GAN800 | javispedro, feel free to patch! |
| 15:53.49 | javispedro | policy? |
| 15:53.59 | javispedro | the problem here is policy/guidelines, not code. |
| 15:54.34 | RST38h | javis: Frankly, they look ok to me |
| 15:55.04 | javispedro | RST38h, of course, I'm not going to argue. This is a low priority request ;) |
| 15:55.05 | RST38h | javis: But if the tux is 48x48, it should be trivial to make AppManager use 40x40 icons instead. This will not violate any packaging guidelines. |
| 15:55.14 | javispedro | 40x40 icons are allowed? |
| 15:55.28 | RST38h | javis: Absolutely no documentation changes required, as you are SUPPOSED to supply 40x40 icons |
| 15:56.00 | javispedro | as I said, the field is "Xb-Maemo-Icon-26". the name itself says "26x26" icons. |
| 15:57.21 | RST38h | ah, right: it takes the icon from the control file |
| 15:57.26 | RST38h | not from the package itself |
| 15:57.44 | javispedro | yeah |
| 15:58.05 | RST38h | So, can AppManager be modified to look for a bigger icon in the package and revert to Xb-Maemo-Icon-26 if not found? |
| 15:58.27 | GAN800 | javispedro, either the code or the policy. |
| 15:58.28 | RST38h | because it would probably look like shit if we started including 40x40 icons into control files |
| 15:58.35 | GAN800 | javiapedro, both are open. |
| 15:59.09 | GAN800 | If you'd like to propose a change send a [Policy] email to -developers. |
| 15:59.09 | javispedro | GAN800, bah, I would do some stupid thing like promoting both Xb-Maemo-Icon-26 and Xb-Maemo-Icon-48 ;) |
| 15:59.26 | GAN800 | Consistency is king here. |
| 15:59.47 | javispedro | yeah, but apt-get lists are going to get big |
| 16:00.06 | javispedro | so, maybe just drop the -26 moniker |
| 16:00.34 | javispedro | and tell packagers to provide a "up to 48x48" icon. |
| 16:00.42 | RST38h | the lists will still become big |
| 16:01.20 | RST38h | But, can I suggest something? Something X-Fade may do? |
| 16:01.20 | javispedro | yeah RST38h, but consider that the use case is that the app manager needs to download icons quickly |
| 16:01.56 | javispedro | and being compatible with standard apt repo layout would be a plus. |
| 16:03.05 | javispedro | how does ubuntu do this http://www.gnomejournal.org/images/43.png anyone knows? |
| 16:03.35 | javispedro | (warn: big 1280x1024 shot) |
| 16:04.24 | jeremiah | That is a gnome tool |
| 16:04.33 | RST38h | Ok, look, in the repo we already have packages that contain 26x26 icons in control files and ALSO 40x40 icons as separate files |
| 16:04.36 | jeremiah | Not specific to oobuntoo |
| 16:04.53 | jeremiah | RST38h: Yeah, I think that is the way to do it. |
| 16:04.56 | javispedro | jeremiah, but does it work in any way like Maemo's current Xb-Maemo-Icon field? |
| 16:05.06 | *** join/#maemo victorpoluceno (n=Victor@187.5.183.46) |
| 16:05.09 | RST38h | It should be relatively trivial to write a script that iterates over packages in the repo, extracts 40x40 icons, encodes them and replaces 26x26 icons in the control files with the converted40x40 icons |
| 16:05.11 | jeremiah | No, that has nothing to do with packages. |
| 16:05.21 | jeremiah | javispedro: That is only what you want to see on your menu bar |
| 16:05.26 | javispedro | RST38h, extract the first icon found _inside_ the package is what windows does. |
| 16:05.32 | javispedro | and the results are ugly at best. |
| 16:06.04 | javispedro | (see your appmgr.cpl, where most programs are represented by their "uninstall" program icon) |
| 16:06.37 | javispedro | fortunately, on maemo most packages only ship one icon, but even then it smells hackish.. |
| 16:07.03 | jeremiah | javispedro: I think it is good because it shows up in the AM. |
| 16:07.09 | jeremiah | That is useful |
| 16:07.24 | jeremiah | Once the package is on the machine you can have bigger icons |
| 16:07.37 | javispedro | jeremiah, but that's the current approach, I like it too. |
| 16:07.48 | jeremiah | oh, good. :) |
| 16:07.51 | javispedro | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:08.05 | javispedro | ah, you also mean that you're fine with 26x26 icons? |
| 16:08.06 | jeremiah | shuts up since he isn't really understanding the whole conversation. |
| 16:08.31 | javispedro | don't worry, my english is horrible, I know. |
| 16:08.42 | jeremiah | javispedro: Not at all. |
| 16:09.25 | jeremiah | You write good English. |
| 16:09.26 | javispedro | that's because you haven't listened to me yet ;) |
| 16:09.26 | jeremiah | Or rather, you write English well. |
| 16:09.26 | jeremiah | :] |
| 16:09.28 | zerojayPC | lol |
| 16:09.39 | javispedro | think qgil's accent is bad, just hope you never listen to me ;) |
| 16:10.36 | qwerty12_N810 | Go to Birmingham, UK and you'll appriciate your accent... |
| 16:10.55 | javispedro | well, jeremiah, the discussion started because we found some extras-devel packages using 48x48 in debian/control field. |
| 16:11.01 | *** join/#maemo caotic (n=caotic@189.183.26.81) |
| 16:11.29 | javispedro | those look good in fremantle package manager, and I though it would be cool if we could standardize on that size |
| 16:11.56 | lardman | nothing wrong with qgil's accent |
| 16:12.04 | lardman | certainly not when I've spoken to him |
| 16:12.12 | timeless | javis, did you check the bluemaemo icon size |
| 16:12.23 | lardman | hell of a lot better than my Spanish in any case! :) |
| 16:12.27 | timeless | lardman,mit's accented |
| 16:12.44 | javispedro | timeless, nope, bluemaemo does not appear in my package list, I started searching for it but forgot middle way ;) |
| 16:12.54 | timeless | well unforget |
| 16:13.24 | javispedro | lardman, well, I am the worst person to say anything about other people's accent, so forgive me :) |
| 16:13.40 | lardman | :) |
| 16:15.33 | lcuk | gulps at the amount of console output generated |
| 16:16.08 | timeless | how do i ask apt for the full path to a deb |
| 16:16.14 | timeless | or the actual repo |
| 16:16.33 | javispedro | timeless, bluemaemo is not on x86 |
| 16:16.49 | javispedro | http://maemo.org/packages/view/bluemaemo/ only armel. |
| 16:17.50 | javispedro | timeless, if you want of a fremantle extras package, use http://maemo.org/packages/ |
| 16:19.59 | zerojayPC | hmm... anyone interested in a maemo podcast? |
| 16:20.24 | timeless | you only need the icon field |
| 16:20.29 | timeless | just steal kit |
| 16:20.37 | RST38h | javispedro: But Maemo is not Windows. |
| 16:21.00 | timeless | is walking through helsinki and tyyping from an n900 |
| 16:21.04 | RST38h | javispedro: The .desktop file inside the package clearly tells which icon is the app icon. And the size of the icon is also known |
| 16:21.23 | RST38h | javispedro: So, the script running over repo packages can pick EXACTLY the 40x40 app icons it needs |
| 16:21.33 | timeless | rst, right windows is sane |
| 16:21.57 | timeless | using non power of two sizesd. yuck |
| 16:22.07 | javispedro | RST38h, and then publish them somehow in the repo? |
| 16:22.10 | RST38h | Let us just say, Windows version of FireFox does not leave processes hanging in memory when it is not running |
| 16:22.35 | RST38h | javispedro: Simply extract them, encode them, and insert them back into control files in each package |
| 16:22.38 | javispedro | (so that h-a-m does not have to download each and every .deb to render the list of available packages) |
| 16:22.44 | derf | RST38h: Unless you ask it to. |
| 16:22.54 | RST38h | javispedro: of course this will blow up the control file size =( |
| 16:23.00 | RST38h | derf: Can you really? |
| 16:23.01 | javispedro | yeah, we are back to stage one again. |
| 16:23.16 | RST38h | javispedro: wait, I think it is not that bad |
| 16:23.19 | derf | Doesn't it have some "quick start" feature that was their answer to IE's start times, since most of the IE components were resident all the time? |
| 16:23.27 | RST38h | javispedro: let me check someting |
| 16:23.32 | RST38h | derf: Never seen it |
| 16:23.38 | javispedro | derf, it had, but third-party iirc. |
| 16:23.42 | derf | I know the old Mozilla suite did. |
| 16:23.51 | derf | Not sure about Firefox. |
| 16:24.09 | javispedro | firefox quickstart says lots of hits in google. |
| 16:24.19 | timeless | quicklaunch was dropped ages ago |
| 16:24.21 | derf | Since, of course, the solution to your competitor having his browser in RAM all the time is to have _two_ browsers in RAM all the time. |
| 16:24.48 | RST38h | javis: ! It is not that bad ! |
| 16:24.50 | timeless | not in ram |
| 16:24.54 | RST38h | javis: look here: |
| 16:24.56 | RST38h | -rwxrwxrwx 2 root root 1045 2009-01-17 18:25 vgba-26x26.png |
| 16:24.56 | RST38h | -rwxrwxrwx 2 root root 1619 2009-01-17 18:25 vgba-40x40.png |
| 16:25.02 | javispedro | base64 it |
| 16:25.07 | timeless | what isn't used is swapped out |
| 16:25.12 | RST38h | javis: PNGs are compressed, so the size for 40x40 is not that much bugger |
| 16:25.32 | RST38h | javis: base64ing it is irrelevant as base64 will always blow it up by the same percentage |
| 16:25.37 | derf | timeless: That's true, Windows agressively swaps out everything, which is one of the reasons it's so godawful slow. |
| 16:26.07 | javispedro | so I guess I should propose 40x40 icon to -developers |
| 16:26.21 | javispedro | or else shut up ;) |
| 16:26.24 | RST38h | Maemo does not though, not unless swap is enabled |
| 16:26.40 | RST38h | So once you have got a process in maemo memory, it stays there |
| 16:27.07 | RST38h | javis: I think you should discuss it with x-fade and jeremiah first, then make a joint proposal |
| 16:27.17 | derf | And if you have swap enabled, you might as well just reboot the device now, because it'll do it for you once it starts pegging it too hard. |
| 16:27.30 | RST38h | javis: people who actually make a difference should support it |
| 16:27.42 | javispedro | Maemo does swap read only mmaped files back to disk. |
| 16:27.42 | RST38h | derf: never happened to me |
| 16:27.48 | javispedro | even if swap is not enabled. |
| 16:27.53 | derf | It may have been a cheap card. |
| 16:28.01 | RST38h | well, it is not swapping realy :) |
| 16:28.11 | javispedro | that's not swap of course, but saying the binary is on memory all the time is also not true |
| 16:28.23 | RST38h | javis: htop. |
| 16:28.23 | javispedro | (.text & .rodata being mmap'd ro) |
| 16:28.49 | derf | But even if it didn't reboot, once it started swapping, it would often be _faster_ to reboot. Swap was really, really slow. |
| 16:30.06 | RST38h | has not noticed too much slowdown, but the tablet has not become any faster either |
| 16:30.16 | RST38h | Maybe it was simply not using the swap |
| 16:31.14 | javispedro | well, swapiness is set to a very low value in maemo |
| 16:31.22 | RST38h | shit, gentlemen, I hate to ask this, but could someone supply me with a couple of rom sets that actually WORK in mame4all? |
| 16:31.38 | derf | The effect was not subtle. |
| 16:31.40 | RST38h | anything that I try downloading off the Net seems to have wrongly named/mismatching files |
| 16:31.46 | derf | If you were pegging it, you knew. |
| 16:34.21 | SpeedEvil | Are there any vmm patches that know about flash erase blocks? |
| 16:34.50 | timeless | heh |
| 16:35.11 | timeless | you want to use the internal volume for swap? |
| 16:35.17 | javispedro | the current linux code currently swaps in/out in 8 (iirc) page blocks, it should be trivial to make it swap in/out bigger blocks |
| 16:35.44 | timeless | our understanding is that getting that stuff working well would take half a year or more |
| 16:36.30 | RST38h | javispedro: there is an easier solution |
| 16:36.34 | SpeedEvil | timeless: I was wondering about it. If for example swapout always defaulted to a circular buffer write - with contiguous writing being the default - it'd greatly improve swapout speed - maybe by an order of magnitude. |
| 16:36.49 | derf | SpeedEvil: http://www.usenix.org/event/hotos09/tech/full_papers/saxena/saxena_html/ |
| 16:37.00 | RST38h | javispedro: instead of improving swap, one can try reducing the amount of resident code and data in memory |
| 16:37.19 | *** join/#maemo ikelos (n=mike@gentoo/developer/ikelos) |
| 16:37.35 | RST38h | javispedro: One good candidate for disabling is Modest, as the WHOLE program has to be present in memory for background mail checks |
| 16:37.43 | javispedro | :P |
| 16:37.52 | timeless | rst, one can try to get pigs to fly |
| 16:38.00 | timeless | ot won't work |
| 16:38.05 | RST38h | javispedro: Another good candidate is browserd, although the current "design" requires it to be resident |
| 16:38.16 | derf | RST38h: I would also like a pony. |
| 16:38.18 | derf | Made of CAKE. |
| 16:38.28 | RST38h | derf: lcuk has one, he offered it to people today |
| 16:38.44 | derf | lcuk has a cake pony? |
| 16:38.48 | lcuk | the cake is a lie |
| 16:38.54 | derf | I suspected as much. |
| 16:38.54 | lcuk | it was a scabby pony |
| 16:39.05 | *** join/#maemo ikelos (n=mike@gentoo/developer/ikelos) |
| 16:39.13 | lcuk | cos timeless said he would swap me his n900 for |
| 16:39.22 | timeless | did not |
| 16:39.55 | lcuk | did too |
| 16:39.56 | RST38h | javispedro: to do background mail checks, you really just need a small program, possibly even started as a cron job |
| 16:40.23 | javispedro | RST38h, well, to tell the truth, I always wondered why a Debian system did not use a GNU mail system (fetchmail and the trope) |
| 16:40.43 | derf | lcuk: I suspect more than just the cake may be a lie here. |
| 16:40.59 | timeless | rst, but how do you show the user a pesky "i can't trust your server" dialog |
| 16:41.13 | timeless | or "your password seems wrong" |
| 16:41.23 | javispedro | parsing fetchmail logs ? ;) |
| 16:41.29 | javispedro | at gui start. |
| 16:41.34 | lcuk | smiles at his search working as expected |
| 16:41.38 | timeless | ok, my sister insists i stop irc'ing from dinner |
| 16:42.04 | javispedro | timeless, obey :) |
| 16:43.33 | kulve | lcuk: did you already start learning neon? :) |
| 16:43.48 | lcuk | no kulve |
| 16:43.53 | lcuk | ive got too much still to do here |
| 16:44.31 | SpeedEvil | derf: interesting. |
| 16:45.12 | Macer | ok wtf |
| 16:45.18 | Macer | i have copied maemo over to the internal sd |
| 16:45.21 | RST38h | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:45.25 | Macer | and the maemosd.item looks good |
| 16:45.32 | Macer | it boots. and right before it gets into maemo |
| 16:45.34 | Macer | it reboots |
| 16:47.28 | Macer | are you not supposed to use .item for booting maemo or something? |
| 16:48.08 | RST38h | You do not show use pesky dialogs because it is the BACKGROUND mail check. The user is not there. |
| 16:48.38 | javispedro | RST38h, I am definitely interesting in knowing why I am not getting mail. |
| 16:48.45 | javispedro | *interested. |
| 16:48.55 | RST38h | If you really insist on showing pesky crap to the user, show it when Modest full UI starts. Or show it via a status bar icon if you are REALLY determined to bug the user to death |
| 16:49.10 | RST38h | javis: Only when you open the mail client, really |
| 16:49.20 | javispedro | RST38h, yeah, I agree with that point. |
| 16:49.38 | RST38h | javis: Besides, see, Modest is not telling me why I am not getting email. It gets stuck on my pop3 account and just hangs in memory until reboot |
| 16:50.26 | RST38h | Or maybe it gets stuck on my gmail IMAP account, who knows...Who cares... |
| 16:50.55 | derf | Or port gnubiff. It has a penguin that bounces. |
| 16:51.00 | derf | Everyone likes bouncing penguins. |
| 16:51.03 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf_ (n=hellwolf@a213-22-69-165.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 16:51.32 | SpeedEvil | derf: Does it also dance? |
| 16:51.46 | derf | It flaps its wings while it bounces. |
| 16:51.49 | derf | That's about as close as it gets. |
| 16:52.01 | derf | I think you can provide your own custom animations, though. |
| 16:52.44 | javispedro | can't believe the "pepetual motion" tmo thread. |
| 16:53.13 | Macer | odd |
| 16:53.13 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: I heard that before. |
| 16:53.20 | Macer | i guess you can't use maemo as an .item |
| 16:53.20 | SpeedEvil | javispedro: seemingly forever :) |
| 16:53.24 | Macer | although i remember doing that before |
| 16:53.38 | RST38h | derf: can I have a stuffed penguin, preferable lightly used? =) |
| 16:53.44 | RST38h | preferablY |
| 16:54.10 | derf | RST38h: No, but you can have one made of cake. |
| 16:54.30 | RST38h | isn't sure cake will do the job in this case... |
| 16:54.47 | Macer | ah well. it's working again. now if only someone would build abiword with cups support for maemo4 :) |
| 16:54.51 | Macer | heh |
| 16:54.55 | Macer | *cough* |
| 16:55.22 | *** join/#maemo GiantTalkingCow (n=GiantTal@adsl-75-62-238-92.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:55.29 | derf | I really should port gnubiff. It's gotta be better than leaving a browser window open to my webmail. |
| 16:56.12 | javispedro | to defend modest, i'm very happy with it, i still have to see it crash. |
| 16:56.48 | Macer | what was the command to boot from the SD? |
| 16:56.57 | Macer | in order to get it to autoboot from the sd that is |
| 16:57.02 | Macer | ask: blahblah or something like that :) |
| 16:57.11 | javispedro | Macer, flasher? |
| 16:57.13 | derf | I've yet to even use it. Everyone I've asked says it handles multiple, large IMAP folders poorly. |
| 16:57.48 | javispedro | i use pop3; i store mail in the server either way |
| 16:57.55 | *** join/#maemo angasule (n=angasule@201.250.98.192) |
| 16:58.06 | Macer | chroot /mnt/initfs cal-tool --set-root-device ask:mer |
| 16:58.13 | Macer | nm ;) |
| 16:58.33 | derf | Yes, but pop3 clients like to download _all_ the mail locally. |
| 16:58.51 | javispedro | derf, that's fine with me, I control the pop3 server. |
| 16:59.13 | javispedro | mail read using the imap interface won't get downloaded to pop3 |
| 16:59.15 | RST38h | javispedro: never worked for me |
| 16:59.32 | RST38h | javispedro: goes haywire if your wifi connection is unstable |
| 16:59.39 | RST38h | javispedro: goes haywire on pop3 servers |
| 16:59.46 | RST38h | javispedro: goes haywire on IMAP servers with large folders |
| 17:00.13 | RST38h | javispedro: does not delete emails that you "delete" |
| 17:00.16 | javispedro | never seen it fail here, even when using my ugly libicd-network-wpa thing. |
| 17:00.16 | Macer | alrighty. awesome |
| 17:00.26 | javispedro | RST38h, yeah, that last one |
| 17:00.29 | Macer | has his n810 back in real business :) |
| 17:00.34 | javispedro | the does not delete emails bits me a lot |
| 17:00.39 | javispedro | adds it to his agenda |
| 17:00.59 | Macer | maemo4tw |
| 17:01.14 | Macer | (until n900 comes out i guess) |
| 17:04.22 | javispedro | find yet another maemo-hater blog whose author has turned to the "good side" just to please the want-n900 audience. |
| 17:05.13 | RST38h | javispedro: btw, in relation to freeing up memory, I have almost forgotten the metalayer-crawler |
| 17:05.13 | RST38h | another waste of memory and cpu time |
| 17:05.13 | Macer | lol |
| 17:05.16 | Macer | maemo is great |
| 17:05.17 | Macer | :) |
| 17:05.23 | Macer | it always has been |
| 17:05.29 | javispedro | RST38h, another one I've never had to kill :S |
| 17:05.31 | Macer | although it did kind of suck without the qwerty in the n800 |
| 17:05.39 | javispedro | (even thought I've read horror stories from this one) |
| 17:05.51 | Macer | i think i have pains in my wrist still from pecking my n800 to death with they stylus |
| 17:06.48 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:06.59 | GAN800 | Macer, that's what the finger keyboard was for. |
| 17:07.01 | zerojayPC | javispedro: Who are you refering to this time? lol |
| 17:07.14 | GAN800 | I hit 40-50wpm on this thing. |
| 17:07.38 | javispedro | zerojayPC, the blogger? this guy: http://tamss60.tamoggemon.com/ |
| 17:08.04 | RST38h | Maniac, maniac :) |
| 17:08.33 | RST38h | javispedro: the crawler is what makes the tablet hang for a minute or so when it has just booted up |
| 17:08.53 | RST38h | javispedro: its results are basically used only by the default media player |
| 17:08.54 | javispedro | RST38h, yeah, I know. |
| 17:09.18 | GAN800 | The crawler, Modest and MicroB are what make RST38h exagerate about Maemo's deficiencies. |
| 17:09.21 | RST38h | javispedro: so, you can just as well show a dialog at the player startup "Do you want me to search for new media files and add them to the library?" |
| 17:09.33 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:09.33 | javispedro | RST38h, you know my opinions. I love Tracker. |
| 17:09.48 | javispedro | If I were a Maemo designer there won't be hildon-fm. Just Tracker. |
| 17:10.11 | RST38h | GAN: I am not actually trying to exagerate anything, I am fairly ok with the current Maemo |
| 17:10.35 | RST38h | GAN: But the problems are still there, and they won't go anywhere unless you talk about them |
| 17:10.49 | konttori | javispedro: if it's of any concelation, h-fm uses tracker |
| 17:10.56 | konttori | for the metadata. |
| 17:11.11 | RST38h | javispedro: Funny, had to kill Tracker on my Ubuntu desktop, with extreme prejudice |
| 17:11.26 | Stskeeps | konttori: did we ever get around to helping you make source package themes for theme maker? |
| 17:11.33 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N810 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:11.35 | Stskeeps | wb qwerty12_N810 |
| 17:11.36 | RST38h | javispedro: terrible resource hog, even on an x86 system. Will probably slow tablets down to a crawl |
| 17:11.46 | konttori | Stskeeps: I have now the needed info to make them |
| 17:11.49 | qwerty12_N810 | Thank you, Stskeeps |
| 17:11.54 | konttori | I think I've even tested making them. |
| 17:11.59 | Stskeeps | alright :) |
| 17:12.05 | konttori | just have not been interested so far in uploading them |
| 17:12.30 | *** join/#maemo gunni (n=quassel@xdsl-81-173-234-73.netcologne.de) |
| 17:12.35 | javispedro | RST38h, to tell the truth, I killed the desktop one. In Debian Lenny, it serves no purpose. it's just a slow search app. |
| 17:12.36 | konttori | Hmm.. oh. Yeah, I need dpkg-buildpackage for windows. |
| 17:12.40 | Stskeeps | ah, yeah |
| 17:12.42 | Stskeeps | that was the blocker |
| 17:12.50 | konttori | or I just need to create the .changes and .dsc files manually |
| 17:12.52 | javispedro | but I like what a proper designed one could do. |
| 17:12.57 | konttori | but that's pretty easy to do anyway |
| 17:13.04 | konttori | I've been doing that in the past sometimes |
| 17:13.08 | konttori | so, not a biggie |
| 17:13.10 | RST38h | javispedro: Probably can't do much. Does not replace file manager, for sure |
| 17:14.05 | Stskeeps | konttori: was there any video of non-transition maemo5 btw? |
| 17:14.08 | Stskeeps | kinda curious to see it |
| 17:14.26 | *** join/#maemo Firebird (n=Firebird@pool-138-88-89-148.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 17:14.31 | RST38h | javispedro: May be a nice addon, for cases where you *know* what you are looking for, but not at the cost I have observed on the desktop :) |
| 17:14.49 | Stskeeps | (apologies for all the questions, i'm catching up after finally having time to work on maemo stuff) |
| 17:15.48 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (n=andre@g1.blanicka25.net) |
| 17:15.57 | gunni | Is there any info available, if harmatten will run on a N900? I will buy it anyways, but as Qt Fan i am interessted in this question. |
| 17:16.21 | konttori | Stskeeps: um. if none of the current videos has, then yeah, if not, I cannot make you one. |
| 17:16.41 | konttori | We have been asked not to contribute additional info for the time being |
| 17:16.49 | Stskeeps | fair enough |
| 17:16.55 | Stskeeps | would be interesting from mer pov |
| 17:17.06 | Stskeeps | gunni: not much info about harmattan yet tbh |
| 17:17.16 | konttori | Well, have a look at quims and jussis video. those might have something (not sure) |
| 17:17.18 | Stskeeps | but it's an understandable worry :) |
| 17:17.44 | Stskeeps | konttori: ah, i meant how maemo5 acts when all the transitions are turned off :) your transitioncontrol stuff |
| 17:17.47 | konttori | qt will at least run on n900, so you can develop on qt. |
| 17:18.02 | konttori | oh. well, it will skip the transitions |
| 17:18.14 | GAN800 | It's a conspiracy! http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=318355#post318355 |
| 17:18.16 | *** join/#maemo florian_kc (n=fuchs@f054164148.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:18.18 | Stskeeps | but yeah, i can understand why marketing want a controlled time before release |
| 17:18.38 | javispedro | heh, so we can forget about the dmesg dump |
| 17:18.42 | madhav | congratulations guys! for n900 |
| 17:18.56 | lcuk | konttori, transitions wouldnt occur in qt? o_O |
| 17:18.58 | gunni | Stskeeps: thx, as said its not that necessary, but just interesting. I never owned a mobile, as i never needed one, but as i saw the n900 2 days ago, i fell in love :) |
| 17:19.14 | Stskeeps | gunni: i can understand why you did :) |
| 17:19.16 | madhav | lcuk: wat r ur views on N900 |
| 17:19.21 | konttori | lcuk: Umm... well, some would, e.g. opening a window. |
| 17:19.47 | lcuk | madhav, ive already started sharpening my elbows. hell or high water wouldnt stop me from getting one |
| 17:19.52 | konttori | also, I think stacked window can be implemented in qt as well. And so can dialogs. afaik. |
| 17:20.02 | GAN800 | gunni, you can use Qt just fine on Fremantle. |
| 17:20.10 | lcuk | you can run qt on diablo |
| 17:20.12 | Stskeeps | stacked window is basically a traditional window with a different window type |
| 17:20.12 | lcuk | stop worrying |
| 17:20.15 | Stskeeps | should be fine :P |
| 17:20.29 | madhav | lcuk: im also..waiting to get hands on new N900 |
| 17:20.29 | GAN800 | My own suspicion is that Harmattan will work fine, but there's no way of confirming that right now. |
| 17:20.53 | Stskeeps | GAN800: any things to back that up? |
| 17:21.10 | javispedro | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:21.15 | gunni | I ever said to me: "When i buy a mobile, it has to be exactly to miy wishes, like camera, wlan, gps, keyboard, and at best would run linux, and you can install all needed sofware like ssh, vpn ..." So this would really be the first device that matches my wishes 100% |
| 17:21.27 | qwerty12_N810 | People would lynch Nokia if the N900 only ever got one release. |
| 17:21.33 | javispedro | lol, I've spent half my life browsing his sites. |
| 17:21.34 | Stskeeps | that's a good point yeah |
| 17:21.34 | lcuk | you gotta be some kind of super shit coder to create a gui that wont run on something that looks as powerful as an n900 |
| 17:21.44 | GAN800 | Stskeeps, only suppositions about timelines, approximate timeframes and how those might correspond to future hardware. |
| 17:21.49 | Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: one major release you mean |
| 17:21.53 | lcuk | and from what i know, qt is very slick and stable |
| 17:21.57 | zerojayPC | The fact that the N900 is pretty much the new flagship tells me we don't have to worry too much about Harmattan not running on it. |
| 17:22.02 | qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: true |
| 17:22.23 | *** join/#maemo johnsq (n=therippe@252.60.broadband3.iol.cz) |
| 17:22.37 | lcuk | davids shopper on 810 rocks \m/ |
| 17:22.41 | zerojayPC | Unless Harmattan's got something completely fucking way out there... I doubt there would be a reason, hardware-wise, it wouldn't run. |
| 17:22.44 | johnsq | Hi |
| 17:22.49 | javispedro | hi :) |
| 17:22.55 | zerojayPC | lcuk: I found that it has a lot of strange bugs. :/ |
| 17:23.17 | zerojayPC | And doesn't like any other theme other than default. Hehe |
| 17:23.18 | Stskeeps | zerojayPC: freaking lasers shooting interface straight into your eyes |
| 17:23.20 | GAN800 | i.e., OMAP4 isn't on track to be shipping by the time Harmattan is likely to be released, and even if it were, OMAP4 isn't radically different enough from OMAP3 (in the way OMAP3 is to OMAP2 now) to break backwards compatability. |
| 17:23.46 | zerojayPC | blind |
| 17:24.09 | zerojayPC | My kid is in the living room singing "here I am, rock me like a hurricane.." lol |
| 17:24.20 | Stskeeps | uhoh.. 80s kid? :P |
| 17:24.27 | lcuk | zerojayPC, bugs can be cured and polished and overcome |
| 17:24.34 | javispedro | Stskeeps, read that Snow crash book? ;) |
| 17:24.51 | lcuk | the fact is - qt can run on now hardware, why would anyone even doubt it cannot run on future hw |
| 17:24.57 | Stskeeps | javispedro: i think i may have read it but i think i wasn't aware enough at that point to fully appreciate it |
| 17:24.57 | zerojayPC | lcuk: Yep. Agreed. I just didn't feel I could trust my grocery list to it. |
| 17:25.01 | GAN800 | zerojayPC, what happened to you IRC narrator? :D |
| 17:25.03 | lcuk | heh |
| 17:25.20 | zerojayPC | GAN800: Whaaa? |
| 17:25.34 | javispedro | bah, could those maemo domain spammers do something else other than installing outdated wordpress versions |
| 17:25.43 | GAN800 | recalls zerojay's kid reading IRC scrollback to him some months ago. |
| 17:26.07 | zerojayPC | lol |
| 17:26.16 | zerojayPC | Forgot all about that. |
| 17:26.47 | Stskeeps | zerojayPC: short answer to podcast.. there was the other stuff related to maemo magazine etc, could try to coordinate efforts |
| 17:26.49 | zerojayPC | My organic text-to-speech reader is in the living room playing with his hermit crab. |
| 17:27.16 | zerojayPC | Stskeeps: Good idea. |
| 17:27.38 | Stskeeps | zerojayPC: and yah, 'good idea' applies to the idea ;) |
| 17:28.04 | *** join/#maemo BluesLee (n=malik197@ip-62-143-233-203.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 17:28.15 | Stskeeps | wonders if hulu.com works on n900 |
| 17:29.18 | zerojayPC | Wouldn't work for me anyways since I'm on the internet and not in the US... as if that should really matter somehow. |
| 17:29.33 | *** join/#maemo fauxmight (n=fauxmigh@ip68-12-73-8.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 17:29.45 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@80.220.238.64) |
| 17:29.52 | zerojayPC | GAN800: You just reminded me of something that happened back when my kid was reading my IRC window to me. lol |
| 17:30.35 | zerojayPC | I swear like a sailor... and I don't censor myself around my kid... but he has absolutely no desire to swear himself. |
| 17:30.55 | zerojayPC | He got all freaked out when he read someone saying "fuck you" and only realized what he said 2 seconds after he said it. |
| 17:31.15 | zerojayPC | He gasped and slapped his two hands over his mouth. lol |
| 17:31.19 | Stskeeps | zerojayPC: proxychains is a brilliant brilliant tool. |
| 17:31.20 | javispedro | was hoping it was not a piece of nsfw ascii arts. |
| 17:31.22 | Stskeeps | and SSH. |
| 17:31.38 | zerojayPC | Stskeeps: Yes, I know, but I shouldn't HAVE to use it. |
| 17:31.41 | GAN800 | Ha |
| 17:31.41 | Stskeeps | hehe |
| 17:31.43 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 17:31.53 | Stskeeps | guess how i plan to survive dubbed polish tv |
| 17:32.08 | zerojayPC | Some sausage? |
| 17:32.17 | zerojayPC | :) |
| 17:33.02 | javispedro | wonders when is tmo going to discuss the existence of god. |
| 17:33.02 | zelrikriando | is there a version of maemo for laptops? :) |
| 17:33.13 | johnsq | yes linux |
| 17:33.35 | Stskeeps | zerojayPC: hildon doesn't work well without touch |
| 17:33.55 | Stskeeps | err |
| 17:33.57 | Stskeeps | zelrikriando: |
| 17:34.11 | zelrikriando | ok |
| 17:34.23 | zelrikriando | so it's useless on a pc is that what you say |
| 17:34.35 | Stskeeps | nah, just a bit annoying to use |
| 17:34.39 | *** part/#maemo fauxmight (n=fauxmigh@ip68-12-73-8.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 17:34.40 | zelrikriando | ok |
| 17:34.47 | johnsq | zelrikriando: why do you want this? to test, you can install the sdk |
| 17:35.04 | zelrikriando | ok |
| 17:35.13 | zelrikriando | I ll try |
| 17:37.00 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=slonopot@80.90.124.131) |
| 17:37.46 | slonopotamus | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:39.47 | *** join/#maemo caotic (n=caotic@189.183.26.81) |
| 17:40.14 | javispedro | slonopotamus, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/a/alsa-plugins/ ? |
| 17:40.59 | slonopotamus | meh, i was searching under 'liba' |
| 17:41.07 | slonopotamus | javispedro, thanks |
| 17:41.13 | javispedro | np |
| 17:41.34 | javispedro | btw, does http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/360/ work? even with flash on it still requests me to install it. |
| 17:42.39 | slonopotamus | yeah, 'you need adobe flash(r) player' |
| 17:43.47 | javispedro | well, just in case anybody is interested, here is the swf file for the 360 view: http://maemo.nokia.com/flash/Main.swf |
| 17:44.13 | javispedro | (until now I had not bothered to check what all the buttons were for) |
| 17:44.21 | *** join/#maemo lcuk2 (i=lcuk@cpc3-oldh7-0-0-cust590.manc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 17:44.39 | *** join/#maemo caotic (n=caotic@189.183.26.81) |
| 17:44.56 | slonopotamus | gentoo-on-n8x0 got sound working! |
| 17:45.08 | javispedro | :) |
| 17:45.22 | qwerty12_N810 | congrats |
| 17:45.26 | johnsq | slonopotamus: nice. than i should run update later. |
| 17:45.43 | slonopotamus | johnsq, not pushed yet, fixing last bits |
| 17:46.09 | *** join/#maemo osku- (n=osku@cs181145060.pp.htv.fi) |
| 17:46.34 | osku- | Hello |
| 17:47.41 | johnsq | slonopotamus: i still haven't build the new power IR-LED modul |
| 17:48.16 | slonopotamus | johnsq, you scare me :) |
| 17:49.19 | johnsq | slonopotamus: I don't know if they work, but they should have 75% more range. |
| 17:50.43 | slonopotamus | knows absolutely nothing about ir besides what everyone who has remote control knows :) |
| 17:51.16 | Stskeeps | slonopotamus: requiring osso-dsp-rx-44-modules i assume? |
| 17:51.27 | slonopotamus | Stskeeps, sure |
| 17:51.33 | Stskeeps | k |
| 17:51.45 | Luke-Jr | is that kernel mods for ALSA? |
| 17:52.02 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: no overlay changes...? |
| 17:52.12 | *** join/#maemo vasily_pupkin (n=user@91.200.156.179) |
| 17:52.15 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, <slonopotamus> johnsq, not pushed yet, fixing last bits |
| 17:52.15 | vasily_pupkin | Hi |
| 17:52.31 | vasily_pupkin | anybody know, will prelink make my diablo at n810 unusable? |
| 17:52.46 | zerojayPC | Prelink shouldn't make anything unusable. |
| 17:52.52 | vasily_pupkin | oh.. |
| 17:52.53 | slonopotamus | need to package funky alsa-plugins |
| 17:52.54 | vasily_pupkin | :) |
| 17:53.00 | vasily_pupkin | this is maemo |
| 17:53.22 | vasily_pupkin | here i can kill whole system with just updating shared libpng :] |
| 17:53.30 | zerojayPC | prelinking is reversable anyways... you could just remove prelinking from apps that don't work with it if there's an issue. |
| 17:53.49 | vasily_pupkin | ... if this isn't hildon desktop :] |
| 17:54.22 | slonopotamus | Stskeeps, what version of alsa-plugins does mer use? |
| 17:54.42 | *** join/#maemo borism (n=boris@195.50.205.224) |
| 17:55.00 | slonopotamus | Stskeeps, the same as diablo? or you forward-poorted their patches to newer versions? |
| 17:55.45 | vasily_pupkin | hmmm |
| 17:55.46 | vasily_pupkin | dpkg-gencontrol: error: current build architecture armel does not appear in package's list (alpha amd64 i386 powerpc ppc64) |
| 17:55.46 | vasily_pupkin | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:56.04 | zerojayPC | Your package isn't made for armel. |
| 17:56.15 | vasily_pupkin | smells like shit |
| 17:56.34 | vasily_pupkin | to do or not to do.. |
| 17:56.34 | vasily_pupkin | (% |
| 17:57.18 | javispedro | I remember a bug with prelink on arm resulting in all binaries corrupted, so take care. |
| 17:57.24 | vasily_pupkin | oh. |
| 17:57.29 | javispedro | (hopefully it was fixed long ago) |
| 17:57.32 | vasily_pupkin | now i think this is bad idea :) |
| 17:58.05 | javispedro | well vasily_pupkin, trying is fun, and you can let us know how it went :) |
| 17:58.11 | vasily_pupkin | :D |
| 17:58.28 | vasily_pupkin | .oO(every sunday i kill it) |
| 17:59.01 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, you want sound too? |
| 18:00.05 | vasily_pupkin | javispedro: you right. this is fun (% |
| 18:02.27 | *** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@f054164148.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:06.38 | zerojayPC | @PeterMaemo Message from the Head of Maemo Devices: www.jaaksi.blogspot.com |
| 18:06.57 | zerojayPC | Oh.. nevermind. |
| 18:07.03 | zerojayPC | Just Peter catching up. |
| 18:07.39 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@9.148.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 18:09.16 | vasily_pupkin | hey |
| 18:09.26 | vasily_pupkin | make ls -l /lib/ld* plz |
| 18:10.27 | javispedro | vasily_pupkin, /lib/ld-2.5.so /lib/ld-linux.so.3 |
| 18:11.03 | vasily_pupkin | hm |
| 18:11.08 | vasily_pupkin | interesting |
| 18:11.20 | javispedro | (n810 btw) |
| 18:11.35 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: might be useful |
| 18:11.35 | vasily_pupkin | what means "Using /lib/ld-linux.so.3, not /lib/ld-linux.so.2" |
| 18:11.51 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, will commit today |
| 18:11.57 | javispedro | sounds like a good thing. |
| 18:13.42 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: when updating n8x0-env, keep in mind 2.6.30-rc8 did not need anything extra for sound |
| 18:15.36 | vasily_pupkin | hm |
| 18:15.48 | vasily_pupkin | seems like ld-linux.so.2 hardcoded |
| 18:16.11 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, so just don't enable approppriate useflag |
| 18:16.55 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: so just don't make the USE flag be something generic like 'alsa' |
| 18:17.13 | slonopotamus | i wanted to :) |
| 18:17.16 | Luke-Jr | -.- |
| 18:17.19 | slonopotamus | 'sound' is ok? |
| 18:17.49 | Luke-Jr | make a 'diablo-linux' package with IUSE='alsa' perhaps doing RDEPEND |
| 18:17.53 | Luke-Jr | or PDEPEND |
| 18:18.06 | *** join/#maemo vladovg (n=vladooo@amur.ddns-lan.lom.ekk.bg) |
| 18:18.08 | Luke-Jr | meh |
| 18:18.14 | Luke-Jr | that requires reinventing the kernel eclass really |
| 18:18.16 | slonopotamus | you're free to hack things once i push :) |
| 18:18.35 | slonopotamus | eta: 15 mins |
| 18:18.40 | vladovg | hi |
| 18:18.41 | Luke-Jr | how about IUSE="alsa diablo" |
| 18:19.01 | Luke-Jr | or perhaps s/diablo/diablo-linux/ to avoid any potential ambiguous... |
| 18:19.11 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth (n=dforsyth@pool-173-79-191-145.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:19.55 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, you may think how gstreamer-dsp package fits in this approach while i'm building alsa-plugins and rebooting to check it works :) |
| 18:20.09 | *** join/#maemo hannesw__ (n=hannes@91-114-233-130.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 18:21.58 | Luke-Jr | I want nothing to do with gstreamer |
| 18:22.29 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, phonon uses it as backend |
| 18:22.38 | Luke-Jr | my phonon uses xine |
| 18:22.39 | Luke-Jr | so there |
| 18:23.50 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: remember, I went to extra work to make gps5300driver work w/o glib |
| 18:27.34 | *** join/#maemo heinrich7 (n=heinrich@interference.gigajoule.net) |
| 18:29.07 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N810 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:32.05 | RST38h | "Cell phone contracts are so hard to get out of that many have lines they no longer use but still pay for." <-- is it really true for uk? |
| 18:33.31 | kirma | took a while to even parse that sentence |
| 18:34.13 | *** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@p3EE05336.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:36.56 | *** join/#maemo ustunozgur_ (n=ustun@88.232.93.251) |
| 18:38.24 | *** join/#maemo GAN8001 (n=ryan@cpe-173-170-45-29.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 18:40.01 | javispedro | lol timeless, now I get to see what you meant with the bluemaemo icon. base64 coded is nearly 500 lines long. |
| 18:40.12 | javispedro | (vs the usual 60) |
| 18:40.36 | lcuk2 | i saw a note somewhere about testing for a bug relating to that length |
| 18:41.40 | *** part/#maemo heinrich7 (n=heinrich@interference.gigajoule.net) |
| 18:42.11 | javispedro | it's 128x128 |
| 18:42.11 | javispedro | :P |
| 18:42.45 | RST38h | javis: were testing if appmanager can digest it? =) |
| 18:43.15 | javispedro | i'd need to make a x86 package, too lazy for it ;) |
| 18:43.58 | javispedro | evily rewrits bluemaemo's control file |
| 18:44.02 | qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: it'd probably fail with some versions of the app manager then ;) : http://gitorious.org/hildon-application-manager/mainline/blobs/master/utils/check-icon-overflow |
| 18:44.21 | javispedro | is that part of Maemian? |
| 18:44.26 | *** join/#maemo heinrich7 (n=heinrich@interference.gigajoule.net) |
| 18:44.34 | qwerty12_N810 | Part of h-a-m |
| 18:45.02 | javispedro | ah, for testing |
| 18:45.24 | javispedro | the icon is 24KiB |
| 18:45.32 | javispedro | so yeah, I guess it crash hard ;P |
| 18:47.30 | yerga | What are the user/* sections in Fremantle? |
| 18:48.02 | javispedro | yerga, I have this opened right now: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Packaging_Policy_proposed_changes |
| 18:48.02 | zerojayPC | Peter@Maemo: "Haven't read most of this thread yet (kind of busy during launch) but OVI Maps works without exta payment. Maps and route planning plus info on places is free of charge." |
| 18:48.03 | lardman | RST38h: no it's not really true |
| 18:48.24 | yerga | javispedro, thanks |
| 18:48.46 | lardman | RST38h: though as some contracts are now 2 years, I could see it might be if someone lost their phone & couldn't afford to replace it outright |
| 18:50.28 | *** join/#maemo _BuBU (n=_BuBU@ALyon-552-1-45-106.w80-9.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:52.08 | *** join/#maemo L0cMini9 (n=kki@94.160.4.199) |
| 18:54.07 | kirma | referring to earlier blog post: what on earth these android, iphone and especially ipod touch users are doing in their lives, or what kind of apps they're "using" if they download 10 or even 20 apps *per month*? |
| 18:54.32 | kirma | I understand that when "settling in" on a platform, but otherwise... |
| 18:54.49 | johnsq | kirma: games which last only 1 hour |
| 18:55.18 | javispedro | seen a typical iphone? 4 pages of apps. |
| 18:55.36 | javispedro | typical user then only uses one of them, usually on the third page. |
| 18:55.46 | javispedro | (it's something I noticed ;P) |
| 18:59.57 | zerojayPC | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=318410#post318410 |
| 19:00.03 | *** part/#maemo zerojay (n=zerojay@modemcable180.240-23-96.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 19:00.31 | javispedro | grabs popcorn. |
| 19:01.06 | kirma | yeah, somehow the concept of what's the purpose of an application seems to be completely different for iphone users, even if I don't know any of them very personally |
| 19:01.48 | kirma | they're like snacks to them. apparently because most applications are useless short-term entertainment, or at least very cheap. |
| 19:02.07 | kirma | I hope that attitude disappears some day ;) |
| 19:02.29 | javispedro | apple likes it. |
| 19:02.43 | javispedro | you said it well, apps are now like snacks |
| 19:02.49 | javispedro | number > quality. |
| 19:02.50 | lcuk2 | smiles |
| 19:04.02 | zerojayPC | It's official, no MMS support on N900 at the moment. |
| 19:04.16 | ShadowJK | zerojayPC, link? |
| 19:04.18 | javispedro | btw, i've now created a package with the bluemaemo 128x128 icon: h-a-m rescales it. |
| 19:04.23 | kirma | I don't quite know what to say to that |
| 19:04.23 | zerojayPC | Peter's reasoning makes sense... pretty much "why send it to someone when you have flickr?" |
| 19:04.24 | javispedro | qwerty12_N810, so no crash in beta2 ;) |
| 19:04.33 | zerojayPC | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=318414&postcount=419 |
| 19:04.39 | kirma | I could call it both surprising and sort of predicted |
| 19:04.43 | kirma | from different perspectives |
| 19:05.21 | qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: glad to hear it. it'd be fun if a powerhouse could be taken down simply with an oversized icon ;) |
| 19:05.25 | kirma | receiving MMSes is probably possible with browser-equipped phone anyway on most operators... but sending, hm |
| 19:06.07 | zerojayPC | people still use MMS? |
| 19:07.04 | kirma | not that I could remember a single occassion when I would have needed that feature... sending, I mean. even if I have a photo to send to parents or aunt (soon pensioner-age), I can just use email... |
| 19:07.12 | Myrtti | zerojayPC: sure - there's lots of people that don't have data subscription in their phones and as such can't send pictures etc as email or other methods that require it |
| 19:07.39 | kirma | but SMSes I certainly use. those work though apparently, based on ads... |
| 19:07.57 | Luke-Jr | wtf is MMS |
| 19:08.08 | kirma | N900 without sensible data plan is pretty moronic lifestyle |
| 19:08.20 | lcuk2 | some new fangled technology that apparantly lets you send pictures to other people |
| 19:08.31 | timeless_mbp | javispedro: :) |
| 19:08.36 | kirma | luke-jr: is that sarcasm? :] |
| 19:08.44 | zerojayPC | kirma: Agreed. |
| 19:08.45 | Myrtti | kirma: even on sensible data plan *RECEIVING* MMS would be nice |
| 19:08.52 | Luke-Jr | kirma: no? |
| 19:09.01 | *** part/#maemo koos (n=koos@e176153021.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:09.11 | kirma | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Messaging_Service |
| 19:09.12 | RST38h | None of you really wanna know what MMS is technically... |
| 19:09.21 | lcuk2 | what R&D is needed to implement MMS by the way? |
| 19:09.29 | lcuk2 | and surely, hasnt this already been done |
| 19:09.29 | RST38h | SMS too for that matter, but MMS is way way more evil |
| 19:09.31 | lcuk2 | somewhere |
| 19:09.36 | javispedro | timeless_mbp, in my h-a-m setup it is rescaled to a "sane" 50x50 (or something around that, my pixel ruler sucks) |
| 19:09.38 | RST38h | lcuk2: Not much needed |
| 19:09.59 | lcuk2 | RST38h, porting |
| 19:10.02 | lcuk2 | not r&d then |
| 19:10.04 | javispedro | hope you were not looking into an unsane h-a-m not rescaling it and showing bare 128x128 icon ;) |
| 19:10.05 | Luke-Jr | I would like a 24 hour webcam disguised as a working pen, that transmits a continuous stream over GSM with a buffer in case it's out of range for 30 mins |
| 19:10.09 | kirma | I believe it's pretty widely "used", or at least supported in Europe. just that it tends to be more expensive than text messages, and thus more or less avoided by most people |
| 19:10.12 | RST38h | lcuk2: You need to read a couple of huge obscure standard definitions not available anywhere, unless you know exactly what to ask for |
| 19:10.29 | lcuk2 | im sure the largest phone company in the world will have those obscure definitions somewhere |
| 19:10.46 | Myrtti | kirma: it's exactly as expensive in finland as a normal sms, IIRC |
| 19:10.50 | Luke-Jr | 24 hour battery, that is :þ |
| 19:11.00 | RST38h | lcuk2: Then you need to make yourself implement all the crap described in these manuals, all those bit fields, java-like encodings, etc etc |
| 19:11.09 | lcuk2 | they have been done |
| 19:11.15 | lcuk2 | on numerous platforms |
| 19:11.18 | lcuk2 | and different devices |
| 19:11.19 | kirma | if I remember right, MMS reception is basically special SMS message + GPRS connection to the operator... and sending is something vaguely similar I bet |
| 19:11.22 | javispedro | yeah, I'm sure nokia can grab the code and reuse. |
| 19:11.25 | lcuk2 | other nokia phones do MMS VERY well |
| 19:11.32 | RST38h | lcuk2: Then you need ty to make sure your stuff works with the infrastructure, preferably with multiple providers |
| 19:11.53 | RST38h | lcuk2: Because different providers use different MMS gates that behave a bit differently |
| 19:12.05 | lcuk2 | if this modem acts any differently to the other modems then there is something wrong with the modem driver itself |
| 19:12.10 | lcuk2 | which i doubt is maemopecific |
| 19:12.22 | RST38h | lcuk2: All of this so that some idiot can send a bad image of his penis to whoever he likes at absolutely exhorbitant prices |
| 19:12.29 | lcuk2 | hell yes |
| 19:12.32 | lcuk2 | punters love it |
| 19:12.36 | RST38h | lcuk: it is not in the modem |
| 19:12.42 | RST38h | lcuk: the modem is the easiest part of it |
| 19:12.48 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth_ (n=dforsyth@pool-71-126-140-71.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:13.10 | lcuk2 | then we need a solution |
| 19:13.12 | kirma | oh yes. used to write SMS gateway software years and years ago, but left that job before MMS really caught on |
| 19:13.18 | RST38h | lcuk: the horrors start at the higher levels, basically at the level of http |
| 19:13.35 | lcuk2 | its hard to use flickr to send a pic to someone |
| 19:13.43 | lcuk2 | and most of the time you send to a single person and dont want the world seeing it |
| 19:13.49 | RST38h | lcuk: I think we need to forget the whole MMS thing for now |
| 19:14.06 | RST38h | I seriously doubt many people here or on maemo.org use MMSes often |
| 19:14.16 | lcuk2 | i hope i get liqbase.net up soon then :) |
| 19:14.18 | javispedro | with email being so simple (at least at the layers I know), I agree: drop MMS. |
| 19:14.25 | RST38h | Overpriced, unreliable crap |
| 19:14.41 | Myrtti | again, it's something that would be nice to be able to atleast receive |
| 19:14.43 | Myrtti | if not send |
| 19:14.45 | RST38h | IF punters scream for it, Nokia will add MMSes, I am sure about it |
| 19:15.04 | RST38h | Myrtti: This might be possible to achieve via some MMS->email gate |
| 19:15.08 | kirma | 3GPP folks are capable of creating highly brain-damaging standards, at least if you, as the reader, are not born as telecom engineer |
| 19:15.11 | lcuk2 | i am too RST38h |
| 19:15.29 | kirma | you know, POTS networks, SS7, etc |
| 19:15.34 | Myrtti | RST38h: sure, Finnish operators use that as well - or claim to use - and I've never ever managed to see anything sent to it |
| 19:15.48 | RST38h | kirma: They are Java people who are being paid to create standards, not to implement or use them |
| 19:15.57 | lcuk2 | kirma, i am sure there are many well trained engineers within nokia |
| 19:16.01 | kirma | at least I mean the standards before web really got into phones |
| 19:16.02 | javispedro | Java people? :D |
| 19:16.13 | lcuk2 | do not mock them |
| 19:16.14 | *** join/#maemo woglinde (i=woglinde@78.52.227.219) |
| 19:16.16 | RST38h | kirma: It is a sure recipe for disaster, cured only by exterminating the whole commitee |
| 19:16.19 | lcuk2 | they control the airwaves lol |
| 19:16.21 | woglinde | hi |
| 19:16.25 | javispedro | hi wog |
| 19:16.27 | kirma | java people create the network standards? that explains a lot :D |
| 19:16.31 | RST38h | javispedro: Yes, you can clearly see it when reading MMS standard |
| 19:16.44 | *** join/#maemo pH5 (n=ph5@g229065192.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:17.22 | RST38h | javispedro: all the values are encoded in the java format, XML everywhere, etc |
| 19:17.25 | lcuk2 | qwerty12_N810, that note was the one i read! |
| 19:17.27 | javispedro | "java format"? |
| 19:17.32 | lcuk2 | you are a super human |
| 19:17.41 | RST38h | javispedro: A moment, let me locate the description |
| 19:18.07 | qwerty12_N810 | lcuk2: Hmm? :) |
| 19:18.26 | lcuk2 | app manager icon length check bug thing |
| 19:18.31 | qwerty12_N810 | Ah |
| 19:18.32 | *** join/#maemo Mek (n=marijn@93.157.1.37) |
| 19:21.20 | kirma | I wonder if MMS payload transfer required some not-quite-so-IP kind of GPRS connection to accomplish its task |
| 19:21.35 | kirma | really can't remember any more, it's well over five years since last looked at it |
| 19:21.40 | *** join/#maemo sphenxes01 (n=sphenxes@85-127-217-221.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 19:22.16 | *** join/#maemo ds3 (i=noinf@netblock-66-245-251-24.dslextreme.com) |
| 19:22.37 | kirma | oh yes - MMS also requires at least some of the moronic WAP data format parsers to work. |
| 19:22.37 | slonopotamus | ~curse autotools |
| 19:22.38 | infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, autotools ! |
| 19:23.12 | woglinde | *g* |
| 19:23.20 | woglinde | ~curse all other buildsystems too |
| 19:23.21 | infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, all other buildsystems too ! |
| 19:24.14 | RST38h | javis: Shit, I have trouble locating the binary format description |
| 19:24.19 | RST38h | javis: but it goes like this: |
| 19:24.35 | RST38h | javis: 1 byte for data type, 1-2 bytes for length, then value |
| 19:24.48 | *** join/#maemo promulo (n=romulo@189.71.44.175) |
| 19:24.50 | RST38h | javis: MMS uses exactly the same format to encode header field values |
| 19:24.51 | javispedro | ah, java bytecode-like |
| 19:24.54 | slonopotamus | woglinde, cmake is ok |
| 19:25.01 | RST38h | javis: correct |
| 19:25.06 | javispedro | constant pool, |
| 19:25.09 | javispedro | I should've said. |
| 19:25.27 | RST38h | javis: And for structure it uses XML converted into binary, where each tag is translated into an integer |
| 19:25.30 | javispedro | well RST38h, it's not usual for a java coder to know how the VM works ;) |
| 19:25.37 | RST38h | i.e. there is a dictionary with those somewhere |
| 19:25.58 | RST38h | javis: Yes, I found it mighty difficult to find this format description with google. Real weird. |
| 19:26.25 | kirma | talking about telecom-inspired protocols, I considered writing SMIL server some years ago. it didn't take much experimentation to figure to give up... |
| 19:26.28 | *** join/#maemo jgoss (n=josh@pool-98-111-6-241.sctnpa.east.verizon.net) |
| 19:26.45 | kirma | err, not smil. what it was again? |
| 19:26.52 | RST38h | Anyways, MMS isn't something nice to implement and it has serious capability to drive you mad |
| 19:26.56 | RST38h | kirma: SMIL |
| 19:26.59 | kirma | chat protocol specified by 3GPP or such |
| 19:27.08 | RST38h | kirma: SMIL with a WML-like presentation language for MMS |
| 19:27.29 | RST38h | kirma: I did not know they had chat protocol |
| 19:28.15 | kirma | certainly there is/was... but what was the name? :) |
| 19:28.42 | RST38h | kirma: I know that they have got SMS (all those weird bitfields within bitfields), MMS (more of the same crap + java + kinda xml), HDML (last decent standard they had), WML (terrible XML based crap made up by a committee and never fully supported by anyone) |
| 19:29.08 | RST38h | kirma: And SMIL (kinda WML for MMS, never really seen it used by anyone ) |
| 19:29.43 | javispedro | i never knew what the real purpose of wml was. |
| 19:29.49 | javispedro | fortunately, nobody used it. |
| 19:29.55 | javispedro | (at least here) |
| 19:30.15 | javispedro | the first phone I bought with "browser" already was HTML-compatible. |
| 19:30.15 | kirma | OMA IMPS maybe. |
| 19:31.09 | kirma | I think I had a ericsson pre-production phone that supported SMIL, or something |
| 19:31.17 | kirma | but what I meant was probably IMPS... |
| 19:32.28 | kirma | WML was ill-guided combination of content-compression *and* new vaguely HTMLish hypertext format that alone had made million compromises too many not to be practical anywhere |
| 19:33.04 | kirma | or was the compression outside it? anyway, it was related. |
| 19:33.42 | kirma | preceding "solutions" must have been horrible when Web with Ajax seems like a panacea :P |
| 19:34.02 | RST38h | HDML was ok |
| 19:34.16 | RST38h | It did its job of showing "web" on a 2-line text screen |
| 19:35.15 | RST38h | WML was HDML digested and shitted out by a bunch of XML gurus |
| 19:35.29 | *** join/#maemo JvA (n=no@h-62-33.A163.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 19:36.11 | RST38h | thanks the Tentacled One for the demise of XML |
| 19:36.19 | *** join/#maemo jagguli (n=quassel@113.193.26.16) |
| 19:36.43 | JvA | The person I spoke to earlier today about status bar plugin issues: I discovered that when running with Swedish as system languages, the fields to select or deselect plugins did not show. However, now with the language set to English (UK), everything works as it should. |
| 19:37.05 | *** join/#maemo frade_home (n=ivan@a88-114-94-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:37.18 | jagguli | Hi, would it be dangerous to do an apt-get dist-upgrade on an n810 |
| 19:37.49 | JvA | jagguli: Worst case, you can always install the original firmware, but then you would lose everything saved on system memory. |
| 19:38.42 | RST38h | jagguli: apt-get upgrade works as long as you tightly control the list of enabled repositories |
| 19:38.49 | zerojayPC | jvA: Sounds like a bug to me. I guess I'll file it. Think you can take a screenshot? |
| 19:39.02 | zerojayPC | er.. well, I could do it too, I guess. |
| 19:39.19 | RST38h | don't try it unless you are absolutely sure that you only have trusted repos with working packages on the list |
| 19:39.36 | JvA | zerojayPC: Try to reproduce the bug on your device first. I'll need to check if I can reproduce it on my other two N810-devices at work tommorow. |
| 19:39.54 | jagguli | JvA: im doing an apt-get upgrade now, the last time i did an dist-upgrade , it messed up the system |
| 19:39.57 | zerojayPC | yeah, I'm going to try it. |
| 19:40.06 | zerojayPC | Swedish = Sverige? |
| 19:40.10 | JvA | Yes |
| 19:40.18 | zerojayPC | Here goes nothing. |
| 19:40.50 | *** join/#maemo Andy80 (n=andy80@237.52.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 19:41.37 | zerojayPC | sondag. :) |
| 19:41.46 | JvA | zerojayPC: Yep :) |
| 19:41.48 | Andy80 | hi all |
| 19:42.13 | zerojayPC | Holy fuck. |
| 19:42.21 | JvA | You see the problem? |
| 19:42.29 | zerojayPC | Small screens = horrible for other languages. lol |
| 19:42.45 | zerojayPC | no, I don't but also, the entire dialog box is much bigger. |
| 19:43.00 | *** join/#maemo trofi (n=slyfox@93.84.248.245) |
| 19:43.10 | zerojayPC | I'll take a screenie and file a bug and see if it happens in other languages. |
| 19:43.36 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host213-1-49-185.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net) |
| 19:43.38 | RST38h | "some operators argue that their customers would have wanted them to manage the experience and, on such a constrained device, avoid giving access to too many services." |
| 19:45.10 | zerojayPC | Italiano! |
| 19:45.57 | *** join/#maemo wazd_n800 (n=wazd@gwh-1-22-val21.ln.rinet.ru) |
| 19:46.43 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=slonopot@80.90.124.131) |
| 19:47.17 | zerojayPC | It's fine in Italian. |
| 19:47.29 | zerojayPC | But again, the dialog box is normal size in Italian. |
| 19:47.32 | JvA | hmm, do Italian use åäö? |
| 19:47.45 | kirma | not |
| 19:47.48 | JvA | I'm thinking perhaps the Swedish characters mess it up? |
| 19:47.52 | JvA | UTF-8 problem? |
| 19:47.55 | zerojayPC | Maybe. |
| 19:48.39 | timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: the kernel we have doesn't support proper MMS center handling |
| 19:50.18 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, johnsq, http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0/sound |
| 19:51.58 | zerojayPC | German appears to have no problems despite the fact that the dialog box is slightly larger... which makes sense since German takes so much more space than English. |
| 19:52.39 | zerojayPC | In honor of wazd, I'm trying Russian. |
| 19:53.30 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: what is it with you using init scripts to load firmware and crap? |
| 19:53.34 | *** join/#maemo homeasvs_ (n=thomas@6.224-246-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 19:53.42 | *** join/#maemo pH5 (n=ph5@g229239070.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:55.14 | zerojayPC | Heh.. this is how picky I am, I guess. I noticed that if an N has the ~ over it, it's slightly cut off on the left side. |
| 19:55.33 | RST38h | wonders why *kernel* should have anything to do with MMS |
| 19:55.44 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, i just mimiced what mer does. feel free to improve. you expected me to write opensource dsp firmware? :) |
| 19:55.46 | woglinde | rst maybee qt-kernel |
| 19:55.53 | RST38h | wazd |
| 19:55.53 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: lrn2udev |
| 19:56.02 | RST38h | woglinde: same question |
| 19:56.31 | *** join/#maemo ScriptRipper (n=martin@host-82-135-36-197.customer.m-online.net) |
| 19:57.24 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, it starts some magic demon dsp_dld which performs dark magic on stuff from /lib/dsp |
| 19:57.27 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: I thought we had stlc4550? |
| 19:58.46 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, driver or what? |
| 19:58.55 | Luke-Jr | chip |
| 19:59.15 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, that's wifi, yep |
| 19:59.55 | *** join/#maemo jeremiah (n=jeremiah@c83-248-143-10.bredband.comhem.se) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 20:00.15 | *** join/#maemo trofi (n=slyfox@93.84.248.245) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 20:00.16 | *** join/#maemo z4chh (n=zach@dhcp-128-194-74-219.resnet.tamu.edu) |
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| 20:00.16 | *** join/#maemo Andy80 (n=andy80@213.60.52.237) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 20:00.16 | slonopotamus | woops |
| 20:00.16 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf_ (n=hellwolf@a213-22-69-165.cpe.netcabo.pt) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 20:00.17 | *** join/#maemo guerby (n=guerby@228.156.90-79.rev.gaoland.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 20:00.58 | zerojayPC | JvA: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5028 - Look right to you? Check the screenshot as well. |
| 20:01.01 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, and sound is ti c55x |
| 20:01.38 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: why does n8x0-env dep 4560 driver? |
| 20:02.01 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, you did that |
| 20:02.42 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, not driver, but firmware |
| 20:02.47 | Luke-Jr | fixes |
| 20:03.21 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, w/e. test sound :) |
| 20:03.23 | *** join/#maemo IRSeekBot (n=IRSeekLo@irseek/log-bot/IRSeekBot) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 20:03.48 | slonopotamus | it took me just one day |
| 20:04.24 | johnsq | slonopotamus: when start working, it is quick done, the problem is starting :) |
| 20:07.37 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: what are the maemo alsa plugins about? |
| 20:07.50 | JvA | zerojayPC: Yep. Exactly :) |
| 20:08.02 | lcuk2 | ponders a new package |
| 20:08.07 | JvA | Someone who knows how to read the userspace log? |
| 20:08.17 | JvA | I want to see if my messages/errors were logged. |
| 20:09.50 | zerojayPC | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5029 - I'd like to subtitle this one "The straw that breaks andre__'s back" ;) |
| 20:09.59 | *** join/#maemo gunni_ (n=quassel@xdsl-213-196-231-231.netcologne.de) |
| 20:10.28 | andre__ | we'll see ;-) |
| 20:14.52 | zerojayPC | I once had a programmer throw a stapler at me because I saw ONE pixel was incorrect. |
| 20:15.09 | AStorm | zerojayPC: :) |
| 20:15.12 | lcuk2 | oh fuck |
| 20:15.15 | lcuk2 | you best not see my code then |
| 20:15.19 | zerojayPC | lol |
| 20:15.20 | AStorm | what a lovable person |
| 20:15.31 | mavhc | that's why we work via the internet |
| 20:15.38 | zerojayPC | When I was working QA on our games, I was as picky as possible. |
| 20:15.51 | AStorm | that's what QA is after all |
| 20:15.56 | lcuk2 | mavhc, +1 |
| 20:16.08 | mavhc | whose fault is it if an error is missed when you have a QA guy? |
| 20:16.20 | zerojayPC | Everyone's. |
| 20:16.32 | AStorm | both programmers and the QA |
| 20:16.58 | zerojayPC | It happens from time to time... thankfully almost never anything too major though. |
| 20:17.46 | *** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@ANantes-252-1-31-147.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:18.10 | *** join/#maemo __t (n=t@port-92-195-12-104.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 20:18.57 | mavhc | I found two errors post cd printing in my games, one popped up an error box if you got every question right, harmless enough, one missed out the last 2 digits of numbers in certain maths question explainations |
| 20:20.11 | lcuk2 | remind me next to come to you for banking software |
| 20:20.16 | lcuk2 | never ^ doh |
| 20:20.50 | mavhc | it was all due to the client wanting win3.1 support in 1999 |
| 20:22.09 | lcuk2 | cool |
| 20:26.08 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: does Nokia actually violate Linux's copyright with osso-dsp-modules? |
| 20:26.48 | timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: the n ~ has been a bug for ages, i complained in our internal tracker |
| 20:26.56 | timeless_mbp | grumbles |
| 20:27.00 | timeless_mbp | they refused to fix it |
| 20:27.36 | timeless_mbp | RST38h: basically the network settings you use for MMS can be very unrelated to the ones you use for everything else |
| 20:27.47 | timeless_mbp | they could overlap, they could be disjoint, etc. |
| 20:27.57 | timeless_mbp | they could have dns which has totally different values |
| 20:28.12 | timeless_mbp | you don't want your other apps to break when you try to use mms |
| 20:28.32 | timeless_mbp | to use/implement MMS safely you want to segregate it from the normal tcp stuff |
| 20:28.44 | timeless_mbp | and this is possible using a *recently* added kernel feature |
| 20:28.50 | timeless_mbp | (this topic came up last week internally) |
| 20:29.33 | zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: Still a problem in Fremantle? |
| 20:29.55 | timeless_mbp | andre__: you should be able to find my corresponding bug for 5029 |
| 20:29.57 | johnsq | where is the add music button in canola2? |
| 20:30.20 | *** part/#maemo oli (i=oli@platinum.edu.pl) |
| 20:30.47 | andre__ | hmm. looks like this device has become a brick. shit. |
| 20:30.52 | *** join/#maemo smackpotat (n=john@cvx-tiv-pool1-0165.bmts.com) |
| 20:31.04 | johnsq | in settings, wauw very user friendly. |
| 20:31.47 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, no idea about maemo alsa plugins. they're in upstream, just gentoo didn't have approppriate useflag. |
| 20:31.49 | Toba | andre__: whatd you do |
| 20:31.59 | timeless_mbp | andre__: 38597 |
| 20:32.14 | andre__ | Toba, good question. at least booting and flashing don't work. grumble |
| 20:32.15 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, osso-dsp-modules are not linked with anything |
| 20:33.03 | andre__ | timeless_mbp, thanks. hmm |
| 20:33.20 | *** join/#maemo n6pfk (n=mike@96.238.186.191) |
| 20:33.40 | timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: i'll have to try to get my devices to cooperate long enough |
| 20:33.56 | slonopotamus | johnsq, canola in gentoo? :P |
| 20:34.33 | *** join/#maemo ia (n=ia@89.169.161.244) |
| 20:34.34 | johnsq | slonopotamus: no, testing under maemo, I don't like it. not very user friendly to use. |
| 20:34.55 | slonopotamus | it's too foreign to everything else |
| 20:35.08 | slonopotamus | ui, i mean |
| 20:35.20 | timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: so, i think we may ship w/ more fonts than we used to |
| 20:35.38 | johnsq | I didn't found playing an album, only added to playlist. |
| 20:35.58 | zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: Can't say that's not a surprise. |
| 20:36.35 | slonopotamus | johnsq, test sound in gentoo! :) |
| 20:36.55 | zerojayPC | er. |
| 20:37.03 | zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: Can't say that's a surprise, I mean. |
| 20:37.18 | timeless_mbp | i believe it's still broken |
| 20:37.24 | timeless_mbp | the bug was wontfix in 770 times |
| 20:37.32 | andre__ | grmpf. bitchy hardware. seems to be alive again now, after trying 10 times. |
| 20:37.39 | johnsq | slonopotamus: I transfered mp3 on the internal card. |
| 20:38.16 | *** join/#maemo ustunozgur_ (n=ustun@88.232.93.251) |
| 20:38.20 | zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: Does no one check the previous bugs before starting a new release or what? |
| 20:38.31 | timeless_mbp | well um |
| 20:38.36 | timeless_mbp | the reason was basically something like |
| 20:38.39 | slonopotamus | johnsq, mp3... have smth to play it? |
| 20:38.47 | timeless_mbp | "third party nokia crappy font" "we don't want to hack freetype" |
| 20:38.56 | mavhc | canola takes too much ram, doesn't work on half my rss feeds, and won't even load anymore, I use videocenter and media player now |
| 20:38.58 | timeless_mbp | those explanations didn't change from 770 through maemo5 |
| 20:39.15 | timeless_mbp | sometimes people clone bugs |
| 20:39.24 | timeless_mbp | which is just as annoying as when they don't |
| 20:39.31 | johnsq | slonopotamus: madplay should work, will see it |
| 20:39.32 | zerojayPC | Hack freetype? It looks like it's just an error in the font itself though. |
| 20:39.35 | timeless_mbp | in this case, i think the key point is "crappy nokia font" |
| 20:40.01 | timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: so |
| 20:40.08 | timeless_mbp | someone took Nokia Sans and introduced it to MS Word |
| 20:40.11 | timeless_mbp | and the result was ok |
| 20:40.20 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, i don't like nokia-osso-linux useflag on alsa-plugins. i want to push it upstream (gentoo), doubt they'll accept such name |
| 20:40.31 | timeless_mbp | although i'm not sure the someone tested sufficiently small font sizes |
| 20:40.34 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: then think of a better name |
| 20:40.39 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: this has nothing to do with Maemo |
| 20:40.58 | Luke-Jr | and AFAIK, it's specific to Nokia OSSO's Linux |
| 20:41.02 | timeless_mbp | thinks he tested 10..32 instead of 8 |
| 20:41.04 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, module is named 'maemo' in alsa-plugins |
| 20:41.13 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: I'm aware. It still is wrong :þ |
| 20:41.39 | timeless_mbp | andre__: my favorite comment there is #9 |
| 20:41.49 | timeless_mbp | remind me to flog the idiot from comment 10 |
| 20:41.54 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: 99% sure installing asound.state is bad |
| 20:42.08 | andre__ | timeless_mbp, your own one? :-P |
| 20:42.16 | timeless_mbp | well yes |
| 20:42.17 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, hmm, maybe |
| 20:42.26 | *** join/#maemo elninja_ (n=r@adsl-76-208-46-104.dsl.sbndin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:42.26 | timeless_mbp | is there something wrong w/ liking one's own comments? |
| 20:42.29 | andre__ | awesome response to your comment. i know that.... |
| 20:42.36 | andre__ | nope, not at all. |
| 20:43.06 | timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: fwiw, i'm sorry i didn't file that bug publicly at some point |
| 20:43.23 | lcuk2 | andre__, |
| 20:43.27 | timeless_mbp | i filed it internally august 2006 |
| 20:43.32 | zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: No need to apologize to me... I'm just glad someone knows it exists internally. |
| 20:43.35 | lcuk2 | how does bugtracker work with projects |
| 20:43.40 | lcuk2 | is it only things in garage |
| 20:43.40 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, you may remove it after checking that things continue to work :) btw, you renamed useflags. fixed wiki? |
| 20:43.43 | lcuk2 | or things in the repos |
| 20:43.44 | timeless_mbp | well "knows" is an odd word |
| 20:43.55 | timeless_mbp | it was wontfixed once formally that i know of for n800 |
| 20:44.03 | timeless_mbp | it wasn't cloned to other products |
| 20:44.12 | andre__ | lcuk2, not necessarily garage only. anything specific in mind? |
| 20:44.19 | timeless_mbp | and it's basically "we bought/selected a lame font and can't fix it" |
| 20:44.30 | timeless_mbp | there are rumors that for harmattan we might get a set of non lame fonts |
| 20:44.36 | timeless_mbp | i'm not holding my breath |
| 20:44.52 | timeless_mbp | sadly getting non lame fonts doesn't imply dropping lame fonts |
| 20:44.54 | johnsq | dejavu would be a good choice |
| 20:45.04 | timeless_mbp | no comment |
| 20:45.09 | lcuk2 | libliqbase,liqcalendar,liqflow,onedotzero,liqtorch,liqgraffitiwall,liqsketchedit,liqrecentphotos,liqaccelview,liqaccelview_alternative,liqbook,liqdesktopmanager |
| 20:45.12 | lcuk2 | to name but a few |
| 20:45.38 | timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: re https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1345 |
| 20:45.43 | timeless_mbp | can you scroll down? |
| 20:45.45 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, i'd like to make a list of things we still want to have and prioritize it |
| 20:45.51 | timeless_mbp | wants to see the longest item |
| 20:45.57 | lcuk2 | just on the working set that are gonna be released and will most likely all need bugs assigning to them |
| 20:46.33 | lcuk2 | i could bulk some up into semi combined projects |
| 20:46.40 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, like, standard api for battery level so kde/gnome applets are aware of it |
| 20:46.43 | zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: Give me a minute to get back into Swedish. |
| 20:46.51 | lcuk2 | but the aim was to allow people complete ala cart installation of the components they desire |
| 20:47.07 | timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: sure |
| 20:47.13 | timeless_mbp | goes back to translating from Engrish |
| 20:47.47 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, i approve removing of asound.state :) |
| 20:47.51 | lcuk2 | andre__, its gonna be hard to be manually creating bug entries for each thing that comes out |
| 20:48.10 | lcuk2 | but working on them piece by piece is better cos it allows interested parties to help on the bits they are good at |
| 20:48.10 | andre__ | lcuk2, heh, well, sure :) |
| 20:48.40 | lcuk2 | ponders more |
| 20:48.54 | zerojayPC | What are you guys on about? |
| 20:49.10 | lcuk2 | liqbase standalone projects |
| 20:49.18 | zerojayPC | Ah, ok. |
| 20:49.35 | lcuk2 | well, some of em anyway |
| 20:49.43 | zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: It's the fucking "Software updates" one. |
| 20:49.56 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, i think n8x0-env no longer needs cx3110x useflag. it's just wifi+nokia-osso-linux |
| 20:49.57 | zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: I'll add the screenshot in a sec. |
| 20:50.29 | zerojayPC | It's appaling that they thought that would be a good string for that. |
| 20:50.57 | timeless_mbp | heh |
| 20:51.10 | timeless_mbp | i can't say i'm shocked |
| 20:51.22 | timeless_mbp | we don't give the localizers guidance on string width |
| 20:51.30 | timeless_mbp | and our testers aren't very clever about breaking things |
| 20:51.50 | timeless_mbp | but when they do find things, they're incredibly stubborn |
| 20:52.02 | zerojayPC | Too bad. I like breaking things. |
| 20:52.03 | timeless_mbp | note that i'm not always on localizer's sides |
| 20:52.13 | timeless_mbp | they filed a bug complaining about a string being truncated in the browser |
| 20:52.24 | timeless_mbp | i said it was a bug in the ui which refused to let the button grow |
| 20:52.31 | timeless_mbp | the ui designer insisted that we not grow the button |
| 20:52.37 | zerojayPC | Screenshot added. |
| 20:52.47 | timeless_mbp | i insist that if the localization testers can't actually translate the dialog they're reading properly |
| 20:52.55 | timeless_mbp | i don't trust them to test a changed translation |
| 20:53.18 | timeless_mbp | and given that the idiotic ui designers screwed up the Alarm Clock Tone dialog |
| 20:53.31 | zerojayPC | https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1347 - Yeah, I think it's too long. ;) |
| 20:53.32 | timeless_mbp | (ostensibly at my behest) |
| 20:53.41 | timeless_mbp | nice! |
| 20:54.00 | zerojayPC | JvA: Take a look. ;) |
| 20:54.49 | johnsq | slonopotamus: wiki wrong euse -E maemo is also needed. |
| 20:54.55 | timeless_mbp | (and testers didn't complain about that verb) |
| 20:54.57 | zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: All the other ones are short enough. |
| 20:55.09 | slonopotamus | johnsq, it'll tell you. |
| 20:55.40 | slonopotamus | johnsq, beware, luke has just modified ebuilds a bit |
| 20:55.50 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 20:56.06 | johnsq | slonopotamus: USE='nokia-osso-linux alsa maemo' should it be. |
| 20:56.46 | slonopotamus | wait |
| 20:57.22 | johnsq | slonopotamus: ok. I look if i have alreay build madplay |
| 20:59.50 | slonopotamus | johnsq, pull. correct useflags are 'alsa nokia-osso-linux', no maemo |
| 21:00.22 | AStorm | mmh, Gentoo on n810 |
| 21:00.28 | AStorm | next step is Exherbo on n810 |
| 21:03.53 | *** join/#maemo GAN800 (n=ryan@166.192.12.45) |
| 21:04.20 | slonopotamus | AStorm, why not? |
| 21:07.24 | GAN800 | X-Fade is a him or her. |
| 21:07.41 | slonopotamus | they. |
| 21:07.45 | AStorm | it. |
| 21:08.19 | GAN800 | slonopotamus, exactly. |
| 21:08.31 | javispedro | shlim. |
| 21:08.38 | GAN800 | really hates it when non-native speakers use PC pronouns. |
| 21:09.02 | *** join/#maemo jjmarin (n=jjmarin_@84.125.150.52) |
| 21:10.07 | *** join/#maemo MaceN8x0 (n=macer@m495336d0.tmodns.net) |
| 21:10.31 | MaceN8x0 | oh yeah, have maemo4 running nice again |
| 21:10.46 | MaceN8x0 | minus the printing it really is awesome heh |
| 21:13.14 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (n=alehorst@201.22.36.26.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 21:14.56 | GAN800 | Ugh! |
| 21:14.56 | MaceN8x0 | hm |
| 21:15.01 | GAN800 | stabs Peter. |
| 21:15.08 | MaceN8x0 | got my su8w back in action too |
| 21:15.15 | GAN800 | Using the feminine pronoun only is even worse. |
| 21:15.25 | MaceN8x0 | ah well. guess this will do until i get an n900 |
| 21:15.36 | *** join/#maemo __t (n=t@port-92-195-12-104.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 21:15.37 | MaceN8x0 | the feminie pronoun? |
| 21:15.54 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (n=magao@89.130.117.126) |
| 21:16.08 | RST38h | Hey leave Peter alone, we all still need him until n900 is released |
| 21:16.49 | MaceN8x0 | haha |
| 21:17.16 | MaceN8x0 | i hope that means mer won´t get discontinued |
| 21:17.27 | MaceN8x0 | i will eventually need something newer for my n900 |
| 21:17.31 | MaceN8x0 | er... n810 |
| 21:17.46 | MaceN8x0 | maybe someone will do a real port of maemo5 to n8x0 |
| 21:17.55 | MaceN8x0 | never know :) |
| 21:18.00 | MaceN8x0 | goes to watch some shows |
| 21:18.24 | Captain_Picard | maybe someone will actually sell the n900 for under 500 euros to me |
| 21:18.51 | MaceN8x0 | im sure in a year or so |
| 21:18.58 | MaceN8x0 | they will be kind of cheaper |
| 21:18.59 | Captain_Picard | http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/max_lvl_89.jpg |
| 21:19.11 | MaceN8x0 | like when the n910 comes out |
| 21:19.13 | MaceN8x0 | :) |
| 21:19.23 | jaska | connery hit the level cap |
| 21:19.27 | MaceN8x0 | with 1G or ram and 64G internal flash |
| 21:19.53 | Captain_Picard | i doubt :P |
| 21:20.04 | Captain_Picard | its gonna be some small upgrade |
| 21:20.15 | Captain_Picard | like better camera |
| 21:20.32 | Captain_Picard | keyboardless |
| 21:20.41 | javispedro | nah, I agree with rst's "premonition" there: n910 will be keyboardless n900 |
| 21:21.10 | Captain_Picard | N2000 |
| 21:21.16 | Captain_Picard | might have 64gb internal |
| 21:21.25 | Captain_Picard | with maemo6 |
| 21:21.27 | javispedro | N9000 |
| 21:21.33 | javispedro | might try to kill you while hibernating |
| 21:21.44 | Captain_Picard | when its over 9000! it will be good |
| 21:21.54 | GAN800 | Magic! |
| 21:22.07 | javispedro | GAN800, read our newest android troll? |
| 21:22.22 | GAN800 | Nope |
| 21:22.24 | javispedro | he has nothing better to say that "Maemo is still not there" in maemo.org. |
| 21:22.25 | RST38h | you mean they finally finished with iphone? |
| 21:22.40 | GAN800 | GPRS and trying to read in bits and pieces to avoid getting carsick. |
| 21:22.59 | javispedro | then don't click ;) : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=318462#post318462 |
| 21:23.49 | javispedro | bad link: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31131 |
| 21:23.53 | GAN800 | Erm, no navigation in Maemo 5? |
| 21:24.09 | GAN800 | What in the world would be the point of shipping Maps. . . . |
| 21:24.37 | javispedro | "Hmm seems that maemo still needs some time... but i'll keep an eye on it. Hopefully it will become a healthy competitor to Android some day." yeah. |
| 21:24.47 | javispedro | hopefully. |
| 21:25.00 | lardman | ~lart Bank Holidays for making the internet really slow |
| 21:25.00 | infobot | calls Bank Holidays on the phone ... the lights are on but nobody's home for making the internet really slow |
| 21:25.15 | javispedro | that was weird ;) |
| 21:25.44 | GAN800 | I hate Android's fake open source. |
| 21:25.54 | RST38h | javis: Oh well... |
| 21:25.55 | GAN800 | I hate the damage it's doing to open source. |
| 21:26.00 | lardman | GAN800: Peter is German isn't he? |
| 21:26.09 | GAN800 | lardman, no idea. |
| 21:26.18 | RST38h | GAN: Hasn't Peter explicitely said that the Ovi Maps included with Maemo5 include free navigation? |
| 21:26.44 | GAN800 | RST38h, route planning. |
| 21:26.59 | lardman | well message is feminine in German, so it's an easy mistake to make |
| 21:27.01 | RST38h | ah but not step by step navigation? |
| 21:27.04 | GAN800 | But a few posts later he says he's not sure about voice nav. |
| 21:27.15 | RST38h | I see... |
| 21:27.19 | roope | "route planning on the device. Please note that turn-by-turn navigation is a different story and I'm not sure when that is in the Maps version for Maemo 5." |
| 21:28.04 | GAN800 | Which would make Maps completely pointless. |
| 21:28.12 | RST38h | worksforme |
| 21:28.26 | roope | Well. Turn-by-turn means this annoying voice thingy. |
| 21:28.32 | RST38h | But I usually walk around here, not drive |
| 21:28.34 | roope | I think there are many other uses to maps just besides that. |
| 21:28.48 | GAN800 | Yeah, which is important for being able to use it while driving. |
| 21:29.01 | GAN800 | Might as well just Maemo Mapper. |
| 21:29.04 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: standard battery management is impossible as long as we're stuck with BME afaik |
| 21:29.11 | GAN800 | Which is at least open source. |
| 21:29.27 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: cx3110x doesn't work with non-Nokia kernels? |
| 21:29.29 | roope | Btw is the Maemo Mapper developer doing a Fremantle version? |
| 21:29.41 | GAN800 | and you aren't at risk of having your position reported to the mothership like Palm. :rolleyes: |
| 21:30.07 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, Stskeeps said it works, i haven't tried |
| 21:30.16 | RST38h | GAN: Ah, you have probably seen N-series ads, these devices are exclusively for hip urbanites. They either skate or walk, not drive ;) |
| 21:30.39 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, i heard smth about hald-addon-bme |
| 21:31.08 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: standard method isn't HAL |
| 21:31.13 | Luke-Jr | in fact, HAL sucks |
| 21:31.15 | Luke-Jr | so |
| 21:31.37 | RST38h | Ok, sleep time. |
| 21:31.38 | GAN800 | What idiot decided that the S60 podcast app should play from newest to oldest? |
| 21:31.47 | Captain_Picard | http://zip.4chan.org/o/src/1251664200533.jpg |
| 21:31.48 | javispedro | gnite rst |
| 21:31.53 | RST38h | g'night |
| 21:32.01 | mavhc | isn't that what ipods do? |
| 21:32.04 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, what's the standar method? /proc or /sys ? |
| 21:32.23 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: yeah |
| 21:34.59 | roope | Getting Maemo Mapper to Fremantle would anyway be a great thing. To access the various map repositories, if nothing else. |
| 21:35.15 | Luke-Jr | would be nice if Maemo Mapper were platform independent |
| 21:35.15 | johnsq | slonopotamus: for what? |
| 21:35.24 | slonopotamus | johnsq, uh? |
| 21:35.44 | johnsq | slonopotamus: "Luke-Jr, what's the standar method? /proc or /sys ?" |
| 21:36.34 | Luke-Jr | Qt Mapper claims to be a port of Maemo Mapper, but I wonder why it's missing most of the functionality |
| 21:37.39 | MaceN8x0 | because it sucks? |
| 21:37.42 | javispedro | and I'd like Maemo Mapper to be more Oziexplorer-like ;) |
| 21:38.19 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=slonopot@80.90.124.131) |
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| 21:48.44 | *** join/#maemo tank-man (i=1000@174.6.38.217) |
| 21:48.47 | *** join/#maemo peter__ (i=1000@174.6.38.217) |
| 21:51.25 | *** join/#maemo marnanel (n=marnanel@dorothy.plexq.com) |
| 21:52.09 | marnanel | Hi. I have two projects on garage ("rfk" and "belltower"), both of them using git for SCM. But http://git.maemo.org/projects/rfk/info/refs exists and http://git.maemo.org/projects/belltower/info/refs does not. What am I doing wrong here? |
| 21:52.24 | marnanel | um, s/http/https/ |
| 21:52.25 | *** join/#maemo tank-man (i=1000@174.6.38.217) |
| 21:53.06 | *** join/#maemo Mousey (n=i_am@ross154.net) |
| 21:56.51 | *** join/#maemo pH5 (n=ph5@g229239070.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:05.37 | andre__ | crap, this shit is so fscking broken... |
| 22:07.36 | zerojayPC | What shit? |
| 22:08.12 | VDVsx | andre__, mail it to me, I will fix it for you ;) |
| 22:09.08 | andre__ | fremantle. at least the stuff i run into... sigh |
| 22:09.16 | javispedro | heh. |
| 22:09.17 | andre__ | VDVsx, don't think you work on modest ;-) |
| 22:09.27 | javispedro | ah, modest broken is not news :) |
| 22:09.28 | andre__ | url parsing in the viewer. argh. |
| 22:09.56 | VDVsx | andre__, I can work with a proper device ;) |
| 22:11.32 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (n=wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 22:16.43 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf_ (n=hellwolf@a213-22-69-165.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 22:20.26 | mavhc | why does modest say impa.gmail.com has an unknown certificate? |
| 22:22.19 | MaceN8x0 | mavhc, i think because they use mail.google.com or something else for their cert |
| 22:22.32 | MaceN8x0 | not sure tho |
| 22:22.38 | MaceN8x0 | i have the same problem |
| 22:22.38 | andre__ | mavhc, known issue |
| 22:22.48 | mavhc | says signature is BAD |
| 22:23.03 | mavhc | andre__: whose fault? |
| 22:23.06 | javispedro | it says so here from time to time (gmail pop3) |
| 22:23.08 | andre__ | there's a thread on talk.maemo.org about that |
| 22:23.10 | *** join/#maemo hetz (n=hetz@93-172-164-254.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 22:23.16 | andre__ | don't remember |
| 22:23.21 | hetz | hi people |
| 22:23.26 | MaceN8x0 | heh |
| 22:23.35 | *** join/#maemo CVirus (n=Satan@62.135.96.164) |
| 22:24.06 | *** part/#maemo CVirus (n=Satan@62.135.96.164) |
| 22:24.22 | hetz | small question: Are applications which are written to N800/N810 can be run directly (without recompile) on N900? |
| 22:24.31 | *** join/#maemo EvilGuru (n=freddie@warzone2100/developer/EvilGuru) |
| 22:24.37 | mavhc | I hate web forums, usenet clients have better UIs |
| 22:25.10 | MaceN8x0 | i hate forums period ;) |
| 22:25.14 | MaceN8x0 | hm |
| 22:25.19 | MaceN8x0 | ;-) |
| 22:25.37 | mavhc | all forums should have an nntp interface |
| 22:26.24 | EvilGuru | just read up on Maemo 5 and is impressed, good thing too as my N810 has its share of scratches |
| 22:27.11 | andre__ | hetz, sometimes, sometimes not? |
| 22:27.40 | andre__ | hetz, there was API breakage. but maybe sometimes you're lucky :-P |
| 22:29.12 | hetz | I see, does anyone knows which parts in N900 drivers are still closed? |
| 22:29.48 | AStorm | as if anyone knows what the specs are... |
| 22:29.54 | AStorm | I'd like to, at least |
| 22:30.23 | MaceN8x0 | can someone try to dcc me a small file? |
| 22:31.10 | hetz | AStorm, specs for N900? |
| 22:31.29 | MaceN8x0 | hetz, all of it ;) |
| 22:31.35 | hetz | it's out already |
| 22:31.41 | MaceN8x0 | Stskeeps, would know that |
| 22:31.43 | hetz | see topic's URL |
| 22:31.50 | AStorm | :) |
| 22:32.27 | AStorm | oh hell |
| 22:32.33 | andre__ | AStorm, errm? http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications/ |
| 22:32.35 | AStorm | Zeiss optics! |
| 22:32.46 | AStorm | dies |
| 22:33.02 | marnanel | is this the right place to ask questions about garage.maemo.org hosting? |
| 22:33.10 | Firebird | wonders why "Maemo 5 will not be available for [...] iPhone" is in the chan topic |
| 22:33.18 | AStorm | I wonder if the GSM receiver supports HSPA |
| 22:33.18 | andre__ | "Maemo 5 will not be available for 770/n8x0/iPhone"? iPhone?! what about my microwave? |
| 22:33.24 | andre__ | has that really been asked so much? |
| 22:33.25 | MaceN8x0 | haha |
| 22:33.25 | andre__ | wonders |
| 22:33.33 | Firebird | ha, I beat you to it >_> |
| 22:33.35 | AStorm | that'd be a winner |
| 22:33.45 | andre__ | Firebird, heh, yeah |
| 22:33.46 | MaceN8x0 | andre__, i think it was a joke |
| 22:33.50 | andre__ | marnanel, hummm? |
| 22:34.05 | AStorm | hnnm seems that it does |
| 22:34.06 | *** join/#maemo ShellEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 22:34.09 | MaceN8x0 | where the iphone for that bitch? lol |
| 22:34.14 | AStorm | 10/2 Mbps means HSPA |
| 22:34.31 | AStorm | I wonder now how expensive it will be |
| 22:34.41 | AStorm | and who will buy a tarnished used n810 of mine ;p |
| 22:34.50 | hetz | Actually, *Less* then Nokia N97 |
| 22:34.56 | EvilGuru | Although I don't understand why the N900 is being advertised as having 1GiB of memory |
| 22:35.04 | AStorm | EvilGuru: yeah, bad marketing |
| 22:35.06 | AStorm | it's 256 MB ram |
| 22:35.14 | EvilGuru | My N810 has virtual memory too |
| 22:35.16 | hetz | and 768MB swap... |
| 22:35.25 | marnanel | andre__: I have two applications hosted on garage.maemo.org, but git is working for one of them and not the other. "git clone..." says that https://git.maemo.org/projects/belltower/info/refs doesn't exist, which in fact it doesn't. But I suppose it should, because the corresponding URL exists for my other project. |
| 22:35.51 | MaceN8x0 | blah |
| 22:35.58 | EvilGuru | While I can't complain about 256, 512 would be nicer |
| 22:36.23 | javispedro | the 818 TiB needed to run Conboy would be nicer too :P |
| 22:36.30 | marnanel | Conboy runs just fine. |
| 22:36.33 | SpeedEvil | Can anyone say anything about outdoors visibility of the N900 compared to the eeepc 900? |
| 22:36.54 | AStorm | if it uses the same screen as n810, which I guess it does, it will be excellent |
| 22:37.09 | javispedro | I know marnanel, it's just an old joke ;) http://depot.javispedro.com/MadHAM.png |
| 22:37.14 | AStorm | (assuming your screen is clean) |
| 22:37.15 | marnanel | aha, sorry |
| 22:37.26 | EvilGuru | Good to see the stylus biting the dust, though |
| 22:37.29 | MaceN8x0 | hm |
| 22:37.43 | AStorm | no, wait |
| 22:37.46 | AStorm | it does not |
| 22:37.49 | AStorm | it's 3,5" |
| 22:37.51 | EvilGuru | While the handwriting was neat, and it allowed for more precision it was too much of a pain to get out |
| 22:38.09 | AStorm | I didn't find it hindering |
| 22:38.22 | AStorm | w/e, can use a separate stylus |
| 22:39.25 | javispedro | thanks god the n900 still has a stylus. |
| 22:39.46 | andre__ | marnanel, https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=maemo.org%20Website&component=Garage ? :-) |
| 22:40.02 | andre__ | marnanel, don't know... at least nobody around here at this time. |
| 22:40.13 | marnanel | andre__: I just wanted to make sure it was in fact a problem with garage and not me being stupid. :) |
| 22:40.29 | EvilGuru | Is there any information with how the worldwide release is being staggared? |
| 22:40.34 | andre__ | marnanel, i know that feeling, but i'm sorry that i can't help you ;-) |
| 22:40.43 | andre__ | EvilGuru, don't think so yet |
| 22:40.44 | marnanel | thanks anyway :) |
| 22:40.46 | AStorm | hmmh |
| 22:40.57 | AStorm | one thing I wonder about - does it have USB charging? |
| 22:41.15 | AStorm | and is the pinout of sound input iPhone-compatible |
| 22:41.27 | AStorm | uh... minijack |
| 22:41.36 | EvilGuru | AStorm: Wouldn't have thought you could pull that much power from a micro-USB |
| 22:41.46 | EvilGuru | But I think the 3-pole jack is the same as the one for the iPhone |
| 22:41.54 | ShadowJK | it's probably the standard Nokia AV connector |
| 22:42.13 | AStorm | EvilGuru: 500 mA is normal USB, can pull that from micro |
| 22:42.13 | ShadowJK | It's 4-pole, but backwards compatible with regular headphoens |
| 22:42.26 | AStorm | ShadowJK: yeah, 4-pole, but different from iPhone |
| 22:42.37 | AStorm | so it messes up on all other 4-pole headphones |
| 22:42.39 | ShadowJK | It has MicroUSB charging, and apparently no regular charging port |
| 22:42.45 | EvilGuru | Ah, so it is, left, right, ground, mic |
| 22:42.55 | ShadowJK | EvilGuru, or left right ground control |
| 22:42.59 | ShadowJK | or left right ground video |
| 22:43.12 | ShadowJK | I belive it's capable of video output on it too.. |
| 22:43.14 | AStorm | hmm, so it may charge a bit slow |
| 22:43.24 | AStorm | w/o a special fake USB port charger |
| 22:43.30 | gunni_ | AStorm: For the price there is a site selling the N900 for 599,- Euro to germany and italy (VAT included) as preorder, so this seems to be the upcoming price |
| 22:43.37 | AStorm | hmm, okayish |
| 22:43.53 | AStorm | I wouldn't have paid much less for n810 |
| 22:43.54 | ShadowJK | AStorm, the included USB Charger is rated for >=1000mA, which is higher than 2.5mm Nokia chargers |
| 22:44.04 | AStorm | which is much higher than normal USB |
| 22:44.07 | ShadowJK | yes |
| 22:44.09 | AStorm | actually, 2x higher |
| 22:44.14 | AStorm | :> |
| 22:44.24 | ShadowJK | I am guess if you short the data pins together, the device will pull as much juice as it can get |
| 22:44.24 | AStorm | maybe there will be a double plug |
| 22:44.26 | EvilGuru | AStorm: Often you can pull quite a bit more from USB |
| 22:44.34 | AStorm | yes, sometimes |
| 22:44.38 | AStorm | but it's not standard |
| 22:44.44 | ShadowJK | AStorm, also according to the website, there's a 2.5mm -> microUSB charging adapter included :) |
| 22:44.49 | EvilGuru | I've gotton close to 800mA from my Macbook |
| 22:44.52 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK is referring to the power USB standard that's recent - for chargers. |
| 22:45.03 | AStorm | heh |
| 22:45.14 | SpeedEvil | It shorts the normally data pins - to tell stuff that it's a charger - and it's safe to pull more current. |
| 22:45.15 | AStorm | but it's a very nice touch |
| 22:45.29 | AStorm | SpeedEvil: I know that |
| 22:45.37 | SpeedEvil | k - sorry. |
| 22:45.40 | AStorm | many USB hosts don't support it yet though |
| 22:45.43 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 22:45.51 | AStorm | but 500 mA should be enough to charge, albeit slowly |
| 22:45.59 | AStorm | (it was for n810) |
| 22:46.28 | EvilGuru | According to wikipedia the battery has a lower capacity |
| 22:46.37 | AStorm | interesting |
| 22:46.39 | SpeedEvil | I've wished for ages that USB peripherals could say 'high power OK' - and negotiate a 30V 0.5A supply with the hub if it was capable. That would eliminate 95% of the power adaptors on the desktop. |
| 22:46.41 | ShadowJK | 500mA rate should fill it up in 3 - 4 hours |
| 22:46.41 | AStorm | is it li-poly now? |
| 22:46.55 | *** join/#maemo minimike (n=Kollgga@p4FED6CB5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:46.56 | AStorm | SpeedEvil: more like 5V 2A |
| 22:46.59 | AStorm | ;P |
| 22:47.00 | ShadowJK | N810 was lipoly too |
| 22:47.01 | minimike | hi |
| 22:47.06 | AStorm | ShadowJK: nah, li-ion |
| 22:47.10 | AStorm | BP-5L |
| 22:47.33 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: no - 30V 0.5A - 2A on the connectors can be a reliability problem, and require short connectors. But... |
| 22:47.33 | EvilGuru | Wonder if the run-time is any different, but I guess it also depends on the voltage, also |
| 22:47.43 | minimike | are there some images for the OpenMoko available? |
| 22:48.01 | AStorm | EvilGuru: yes, that's why I asked about lipoly |
| 22:48.03 | SpeedEvil | minimike: the graphics accel on the freerunner really blows. |
| 22:48.05 | ShadowJK | minimike, I would guess you're looking for #mer |
| 22:48.05 | AStorm | it delivers higher voltage |
| 22:48.20 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: mer isn't x86? |
| 22:48.25 | minimike | ok |
| 22:48.36 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: li-poly and li-ion are both 4.2V max |
| 22:48.37 | AStorm | SpeedEvil: that and more |
| 22:48.39 | ShadowJK | minimike, maemo5 only runs on Nokia N900, if that's what you're wondering |
| 22:48.44 | *** part/#maemo marnanel (n=marnanel@dorothy.plexq.com) |
| 22:48.49 | AStorm | SpeedEvil: yes, max, but typical li-ion is 3,7V |
| 22:49.05 | ShadowJK | You're a lunatic if you use Li-Poly to 4.3V, but the RC people do it :) |
| 22:49.08 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: that's the nominal voltage. The nominal voltage of li-po is the same. |
| 22:49.27 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: 3-4.2V or so |
| 22:49.37 | AStorm | I messed up, n810 uses BP-4L |
| 22:49.57 | AStorm | which is li-poly |
| 22:50.15 | AStorm | let me check wiki |
| 22:50.16 | ShadowJK | N800/N810 will start warning you at 3.55 or so, shuts down shortly after... and at 2.8 (iirc) the hardware refuses to run |
| 22:50.21 | *** join/#maemo zimmerle (n=zimmerle@189.70.109.80) |
| 22:50.50 | ShadowJK | BP-4L and BP-5L are both Lithium Polymer |
| 22:51.06 | ShadowJK | Source: http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/power/batteries/nokia-battery-bp-5l http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/power/batteries/nokia-battery-bp-4l |
| 22:51.07 | AStorm | yeah |
| 22:51.19 | AStorm | now this uses BL-5J, a newer type |
| 22:51.55 | AStorm | which is li-ion |
| 22:52.05 | AStorm | I wonder what made them change it |
| 22:52.13 | AStorm | (although I suppose heat reasons) |
| 22:52.18 | ShadowJK | Li-Ion is pretty confusing anyway |
| 22:52.29 | SpeedEvil | Essentially all lithium cells today (barring LiFePO4 - which are rare in anything but powertools - though some laptops are using them as an option) are 2.5-3V bottom to 4.2V top. |
| 22:52.32 | EvilGuru | AStorm: Cheaper to make, possibly |
| 22:52.43 | AStorm | I had one battery die in n810 due to heat |
| 22:52.55 | ShadowJK | When people say "Li-Ion" they usually mean non-polymer cobalt based lithium chemistry :) |
| 22:52.56 | AStorm | note: don't leave n810 on desk on a hot day |
| 22:53.02 | AStorm | ShadowJK: yeah |
| 22:53.13 | ShadowJK | all LiIons hate heat :) |
| 22:53.24 | EvilGuru | An even worse thing to do with an N810 is to leave the RSS widget running for a month without using it |
| 22:53.40 | MaceN8x0 | hahaha |
| 22:53.46 | ShadowJK | It runs battery down then sits there corroding? :-) |
| 22:53.47 | AStorm | nah, why? |
| 22:53.49 | MaceN8x0 | just sucking up cycles huh? |
| 22:53.51 | EvilGuru | A rather icky bug with the old version caused it to eat up memory, hence swap |
| 22:53.56 | AStorm | oh, this |
| 22:54.21 | EvilGuru | a month of constant swapping = unhappy flash memory |
| 22:54.25 | ShadowJK | Have I told you guys about the "Mugen power battery" I bought for my N800? :P |
| 22:54.35 | AStorm | did it work? |
| 22:54.44 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: you opened it up and found 3 alkaline AAAs? |
| 22:54.50 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 22:54.52 | ShadowJK | Not quite |
| 22:54.57 | ShadowJK | It was advertised as 1800mAh |
| 22:55.09 | ShadowJK | I pop it in, and the battery identifies itself to the tablet as 1200mAh |
| 22:55.21 | EvilGuru | SpeedEvil: According to youtube *every* battery is a linear combination of AA and AAA ;) |
| 22:55.38 | ShadowJK | A discharge/charge/discharge cycle later, and indeed, the real capacity of the battery is close to 1200mAh :) |
| 22:55.46 | ShadowJK | the missing 600mAh were eaten by the marketing trolls |
| 22:56.24 | MaceN8x0 | video works great on an n810 |
| 22:56.38 | MaceN8x0 | wish it had an atsc tuner |
| 22:56.39 | MaceN8x0 | heh |
| 22:56.48 | EvilGuru | DVB > atsc |
| 22:56.50 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: yeah - I have some li-ion cells that do that. |
| 22:57.06 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: (from dealextreme - claimes 2400 - real ~1500) |
| 22:57.23 | MaceN8x0 | haha |
| 22:57.31 | ShadowJK | What's up with the chinese giving lithium batteries names with "fire" in them |
| 22:57.37 | MaceN8x0 | SpeedEvil, arent most like that? |
| 22:57.38 | ShadowJK | kinda ominous |
| 22:59.04 | SpeedEvil | MaceN8x0: not if you buy sony/panasonic/... - or decent brands generally (if legit) |
| 22:59.07 | lcuk2 | laughs evily |
| 22:59.52 | ShadowJK | There's also this guy in Hongkong that has decent cells |
| 22:59.57 | Firebird | what?! SpeedEvil 4.3v is a fully charged li-po, I charge all my pack's to that |
| 23:00.01 | MaceN8x0 | so i shouldnt expect 15hrs from my touch book? |
| 23:00.20 | ShadowJK | Firebird, they wouldn't last long enough in a phone when charged to 4.3 :) |
| 23:00.26 | SpeedEvil | Firebird: I charge my li-ions to 5V (oops). Needed to throw away 6 cells due to that. |
| 23:00.29 | MaceN8x0 | who said they made the new battery? |
| 23:00.34 | AStorm | did nokia release the rundown time of n900? |
| 23:00.42 | ShadowJK | AStorm, it's in a pdf somewhere |
| 23:00.49 | AStorm | hm, where? |
| 23:00.55 | SpeedEvil | rundown time is _so_ software dependant I wouldn't be surprised if they're still tweaking. |
| 23:01.08 | Firebird | ShadowJK, they last pretty long as RC batteries, 3.7 is like cell death or close to |
| 23:01.20 | *** join/#maemo __t1 (n=t@port-92-195-12-104.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 23:01.27 | AStorm | 3.7 is still alive |
| 23:01.30 | ShadowJK | Yeah but you don't fly your RC daily :) |
| 23:01.35 | Firebird | heh |
| 23:01.35 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: for non-power uses |
| 23:01.39 | AStorm | correct |
| 23:01.52 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: you can't take out any appreciable energy at C20 then though |
| 23:01.57 | MaceN8x0 | hm... they are showing a doctor who said vaccines cause autism |
| 23:02.08 | AStorm | MaceN8x0: as a quack? |
| 23:02.23 | MaceN8x0 | sort of |
| 23:02.24 | ShadowJK | The most the N800/N810 and N900 will face is 1/2C :) |
| 23:02.33 | SpeedEvil | I thought that guy had recanted. |
| 23:02.36 | MaceN8x0 | he believes he is right ;) |
| 23:02.44 | Firebird | wonder if anyone's ever puffed their N8x0 batteries |
| 23:02.46 | AStorm | ShadowJK: more like 0.8C |
| 23:02.55 | AStorm | Firebird: I did, hey |
| 23:02.58 | MaceN8x0 | dont think so |
| 23:03.02 | SpeedEvil | Mace: the one that has killed several kids in the UK you mean? |
| 23:03.09 | *** join/#maemo guysoft422 (n=guysoft@93-172-151-86.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 23:03.13 | AStorm | it didn't explode, but did bulge |
| 23:03.17 | Firebird | ah |
| 23:03.19 | AStorm | good design |
| 23:03.21 | MaceN8x0 | it is on nbc |
| 23:03.27 | SpeedEvil | (due to lack of vaccination) |
| 23:03.29 | MaceN8x0 | im waiting on the bears game |
| 23:03.54 | AStorm | yeah, I wonder who would buy this stuff the guy was telling |
| 23:03.57 | MaceN8x0 | no, he says the vaccine causes autism |
| 23:04.12 | ShadowJK | There's this place on the intarwebs selling LiFePo4 packs in the kWh size :( |
| 23:04.15 | ShadowJK | wants |
| 23:04.19 | AStorm | and I say "prove it rigorously, double-blind test" |
| 23:04.20 | ShadowJK | though I have no idea what I'd use them forf |
| 23:04.33 | AStorm | ShadowJK: an electric car |
| 23:04.40 | AStorm | or an electric bike |
| 23:04.50 | EvilGuru | MaceN8x0: Is this to do with the MMR? |
| 23:04.50 | AStorm | or a large UPS, in a pinch |
| 23:05.23 | EvilGuru | AStorm: UPS tend to prefer good ole lead acid, or kinetic-based solutions |
| 23:05.35 | AStorm | gel battery |
| 23:05.46 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: Screw LiFePo4. I want eestor. |
| 23:06.00 | ShadowJK | eestor? |
| 23:06.13 | AStorm | that new lithium tech |
| 23:06.18 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: It's a wierd 2KV _high_ density capacitor. |
| 23:06.27 | AStorm | ah, a supercap |
| 23:06.34 | AStorm | disregard these |
| 23:06.39 | AStorm | still too low density |
| 23:06.56 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: that conventional wisdom say can't work. No - supercap in normal use is electrolytic double layer thing. This is ceramic. And better than li-ion. |
| 23:06.58 | AStorm | the new lithium tech is great, 10% more capacity, extremely fast charge, much less heat |
| 23:07.06 | ShadowJK | http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=5249 this would power an UPS long time :( |
| 23:07.10 | AStorm | and huge voltage output possible |
| 23:07.26 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: infinite charge life as good or better than li-ion energy density almost infinite power density. |
| 23:07.58 | ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, I'm sure the geeks are having fun with it in their labs. Bastards. |
| 23:08.13 | AStorm | SpeedEvil: heat? |
| 23:08.20 | *** part/#maemo jjmarin (n=jjmarin_@84.125.150.52) |
| 23:08.28 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eestor - if it's real - it is going to _totally_ revolutionise many things. |
| 23:08.45 | AStorm | it's likely not real or too expensive |
| 23:08.55 | AStorm | the new li-ion is ready for cars now |
| 23:09.03 | ShadowJK | which new are you talking about? |
| 23:09.04 | AStorm | it doesn't lose charge over time |
| 23:09.10 | AStorm | that MIT nanostructure one |
| 23:09.19 | AStorm | it is already in production |
| 23:09.45 | ShadowJK | So it'll be 3-5 years before battery nerds can buy cars or whatever just to harvest those batteries |
| 23:09.49 | *** join/#maemo brbrbr (n=brbrbrbr@unaffiliated/brbrbr) |
| 23:09.52 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: nope |
| 23:09.53 | ShadowJK | and further 3-5 years before you can actually buy them :) |
| 23:09.59 | AStorm | ShadowJK: you can buy them already |
| 23:10.02 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: go to ebay get a DC9360 pack |
| 23:10.14 | AStorm | and nerds have built a bike on these |
| 23:10.23 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: 10 2.2Ah cells that can discharge at about C50 over and over again |
| 23:10.28 | AStorm | they're expensive though right now - lack of mass production |
| 23:10.38 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: (powertool pack - dewalt) |
| 23:10.40 | ShadowJK | Dewalt... isn't this A123? |
| 23:10.47 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 23:10.50 | ShadowJK | ah |
| 23:11.01 | ShadowJK | I thought you were talking about something newer :) |
| 23:11.06 | SpeedEvil | I assume that's what AStorm meant. |
| 23:11.18 | AStorm | probably |
| 23:11.25 | AStorm | but I wasn't talking about a huge pack |
| 23:11.39 | AStorm | but that new battery structure with nanolanes |
| 23:11.53 | AStorm | it's applicable for all sizes |
| 23:12.11 | AStorm | charge time = 0,01 of current li-ion |
| 23:12.22 | ShadowJK | The A123 stuff is great in powertools, but not that useful in PEDs :) |
| 23:12.24 | AStorm | discharge over time is about 5% of current |
| 23:12.27 | brbrbr | warmly greet everyone |
| 23:12.37 | AStorm | let me find it, I guess it has hit /. too |
| 23:13.13 | AStorm | http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2006/battery-hybrid.html |
| 23:13.18 | *** join/#maemo cjdavis (n=cjdavis@cpe-71-67-99-208.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 23:14.15 | AStorm | combine with this: |
| 23:14.20 | AStorm | http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/battery-material-0311.html |
| 23:14.54 | ShadowJK | wonders when Toyota will upgrade to LiFePo4 :-) |
| 23:15.02 | ShadowJK | they're using nimh right now |
| 23:15.04 | AStorm | never, because LiMn is better |
| 23:15.05 | AStorm | :P |
| 23:16.12 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: debatable. |
| 23:16.37 | ShadowJK | Both are a bit too new to really know which one is more durable |
| 23:16.38 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: If you could fully charge your phone in 5 mins not 1h. |
| 23:16.49 | AStorm | SpeedEvil: with the new battery, in seconds. |
| 23:16.54 | SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: that may for some users offset the raw lower battery life. |
| 23:16.56 | AStorm | so LiFePo4 is already obsolete |
| 23:17.49 | ShadowJK | AStorm, but it will still take a few years before someone else reinvents that fancy new one, so that there can be more than one manufacturer with a patent portfolio deadlock, pushing prices down |
| 23:18.27 | AStorm | hehehe |
| 23:18.34 | AStorm | it's already being made at... ok prices |
| 23:18.45 | AStorm | for a new tech |
| 23:18.46 | SpeedEvil | For cellphones - the price isn't important. |
| 23:19.06 | SpeedEvil | In that 1Ah at $10 isn't an issue. |
| 23:19.26 | ShadowJK | Imagine the size of the charge controller and all the wires if you want to charge in 5 seconds :) |
| 23:19.26 | SpeedEvil | For cars - that's a really annoying price. |
| 23:19.35 | AStorm | ShadowJK: yeah, now the current would be immense |
| 23:19.43 | AStorm | meaning huge wires |
| 23:19.46 | AStorm | minutes is more real |
| 23:21.11 | AStorm | (something like 10A burst - possible to make) |
| 23:21.40 | SpeedEvil | (which = 5 mins for a 800mAh battery) |
| 23:22.06 | ShadowJK | I suspect it'll be witricity before superfast charging :P |
| 23:22.23 | AStorm | witricity is neat, but still short range |
| 23:22.23 | SpeedEvil | Also for a 300W (30s) charger - the charger gets quite large. |
| 23:22.34 | SpeedEvil | wireless electricity is contact only. |
| 23:22.40 | AStorm | SpeedEvil: WRONG. |
| 23:22.41 | SpeedEvil | And inherently lowish power. |
| 23:22.43 | AStorm | read up. |
| 23:22.54 | AStorm | like 60W lightbulb at 10m |
| 23:23.05 | AStorm | fairly lowish, but for a cellphone... |
| 23:23.06 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: I believe that some of the claims for that are flat-out lies and fraud. |
| 23:23.16 | AStorm | no, that has been demonstrated |
| 23:23.25 | AStorm | including the presence of standing carrier waves |
| 23:23.28 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: You may be able to get that to work in a sanitised environment with no metallic components. |
| 23:23.35 | ShadowJK | lowish power in all practical situations, but if you can cover buildings and your car, then your phone will be getting a trickle of power almost 24/7 |
| 23:23.43 | AStorm | nope, because it doesn't interact with anything not tuned to the frequency |
| 23:23.49 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: Bullshit. |
| 23:24.02 | AStorm | ... it's hard physics |
| 23:24.18 | *** join/#maemo GAN8001 (n=ryan@c-98-230-62-25.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 23:24.55 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: Metals are not selective in frequency - resonance has to be engineered or occur naturally. Many objects will have RF currents flowing at them at a wide range of frequencies. |
| 23:25.02 | AStorm | including the presence of standing carrier waves# 2008: Intel reproduces Nikola Tesla's 1894 implementation and Prof. John Boys group's 1988's experiments by wirelessly powering a nearby light bulb with 75% efficiency.[23] |
| 23:25.15 | AStorm | hello? |
| 23:25.25 | GeneralAntilles | Yellow |
| 23:25.28 | AStorm | nearby is some meters |
| 23:25.55 | AStorm | this is extended near field coupling |
| 23:26.00 | AStorm | quite a trick |
| 23:26.00 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: I'm not saying it can't be done in a lab. I'm saying that it can't be done in a real environment with many cabled devices. |
| 23:26.15 | AStorm | it can be done, but not sure if the receiver will be light enough |
| 23:26.20 | AStorm | might work for a mobile charging port |
| 23:27.26 | AStorm | or for a laptop |
| 23:27.27 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: link to the above? 60GHz or so steered beams are 'easy' - given good 60GHz tech that makes 128 or so channel transmitters cheap. |
| 23:27.46 | AStorm | http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/39008/113/ |
| 23:27.48 | SpeedEvil | For charging pads that you throw stuff onto - there is almost no issue. |
| 23:28.07 | *** part/#maemo mcpi (n=user@p579B948C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:28.20 | AStorm | bah, sucky link |
| 23:28.24 | AStorm | I'll find a better one |
| 23:28.58 | AStorm | http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/wireless-0607.html |
| 23:29.19 | AStorm | note - MHz frequencies |
| 23:31.14 | GeneralAntilles | rcadden is still officially a fool. |
| 23:32.35 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: The field only cancels at long ranges. And wires within the charging volume will still pick up and distort the field. How well will HDMI/... cables cope if you induce 34V@5MHz? |
| 23:32.58 | AStorm | it won't induce |
| 23:33.07 | AStorm | they're not tuned to the resonant frequency |
| 23:34.18 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: Resonance is only required if you want to efficiently extract power from it. Not if you want to reduce the effect to uselessness. |
| 23:34.34 | AStorm | yes, it will induce something |
| 23:34.40 | AStorm | but that something is extremely low energy |
| 23:34.51 | AStorm | I suspect less than a typical wifi transmitter |
| 23:35.44 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: anyway - this would be more appropriate in ##electronics - I don't see much point in debating it here. I think the above - if presented as a working device for use in homes - wouldn't work at all due to it interfering with, and being shorted out by metallic elements. |
| 23:35.49 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: I may well be utterly wrong. |
| 23:36.20 | AStorm | yeah, and my physicist friend might be too in his rough calculations |
| 23:36.22 | AStorm | :) |
| 23:36.53 | *** join/#maemo ustunozgur_ (n=ustun@88.252.63.217) |
| 23:37.08 | AStorm | SpeedEvil: again, metallic elements don't block it as well as you'd expect in normal transmission (e.g. radio waves) |
| 23:37.12 | SpeedEvil | Neglecting completely the volume of the reciever coil - which needs to be substantil to get a decent 'Q' (unless you find superconductors) or the howls of protest from the 'EM is evil' brigade. |
| 23:37.36 | AStorm | the latter might be a problem |
| 23:37.44 | AStorm | volume of the coil is likely not |
| 23:38.21 | *** part/#maemo soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap) |
| 23:38.25 | *** join/#maemo Interocitor (n=Rhoruns@ip98-165-84-98.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 23:38.25 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: That is - as I understand it - only true in limited cases. And the volume of the coil needs to be there to get Q - as it needs to be low resistance - and absenting superconductors... |
| 23:38.51 | SpeedEvil | (this is all from when I looked at doing this 8 years or so ago using basically the same setup and found problems) |
| 23:38.52 | zerojayPC | GeneralAntilles: I love that he basically slags us all off but still gets to go to shit like Nokia World and probably will get a prerelease N900.. even after ignoring us or insulting us all this time. |
| 23:39.08 | AStorm | hehehe |
| 23:39.24 | SpeedEvil | sighs at bloggers. |
| 23:39.24 | AStorm | SpeedEvil: I'll check it out |
| 23:39.35 | GeneralAntilles | zerojayPC, I love that he comes back then tells us we're all pieces of shit. |
| 23:39.43 | GeneralAntilles | Who don't give a damn about real users. |
| 23:39.45 | SpeedEvil | sighs at time - on reflection more like 12) |
| 23:39.45 | sharpneli | The term "Near field" also spells it out quite well. The distance between receiving and transmitting coil needs to be in order of the coil size. |
| 23:39.52 | GeneralAntilles | Which is demonstrably false. |
| 23:39.55 | AStorm | sharpneli: extended near field |
| 23:40.05 | AStorm | original near field was smaller than the transmitter |
| 23:40.19 | javispedro | something weird is on tmo |
| 23:40.20 | javispedro | http://talk.maemo.org/search.php |
| 23:40.21 | zerojayPC | GeneralAntilles: Planning on responding? |
| 23:40.21 | sharpneli | AStorm: Yeah whatever. It still works only on relatively close distances. |
| 23:40.23 | AStorm | this is... similar principle, but differently (resonance and standing waves) |
| 23:40.24 | javispedro | check the tag cloud of http://talk.maemo.org/search.php |
| 23:40.38 | AStorm | yeah, like some meters for a not too large coil |
| 23:41.16 | GeneralAntilles | zerojayPC, in the process, and not feeling very charitable. |
| 23:41.21 | sharpneli | AStorm: We simulated that with a friend few years ago. Yeah it works but it has problems. |
| 23:41.43 | sharpneli | We got the same result as the demonstrations did that is ;p |
| 23:41.49 | AStorm | yeah, that is easy |
| 23:42.02 | sharpneli | It's very sensitive to orientation of the coils also. Which makes it tad difficult for mobile chargers. |
| 23:42.03 | AStorm | the trick is to tune a standing wave |
| 23:42.06 | AStorm | for the distance |
| 23:42.27 | AStorm | you have to design a special coil to have omnidirectional transfer |
| 23:42.38 | sharpneli | And how would you do that?-) |
| 23:42.49 | AStorm | a ball of wire |
| 23:42.50 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: that will actually win you the nobel prize. |
| 23:42.59 | AStorm | no, it won't, it's been done |
| 23:43.00 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: As it is a fundamental unsoluble problem. |
| 23:43.01 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@144.84-49-131.nextgentel.com) |
| 23:43.13 | sharpneli | Can you give the source for that statement? |
| 23:43.14 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: The easy way round it is 3 orthogonal coils. |
| 23:43.20 | AStorm | SpeedEvil: yes |
| 23:43.26 | AStorm | with some loss of efficiency |
| 23:43.51 | sharpneli | SpeedEvil: They have to be connected together which means that it actually nullifies itself ;p |
| 23:44.47 | AStorm | no, as long as they broadcast on the same frequency, all is fine |
| 23:44.48 | sharpneli | Can anyone give the source for that? I really want to see the design. I cant be certain it cannot be done with active components but with purely passive components it simply cannot be done. |
| 23:44.49 | SpeedEvil | sharpneli: sorry - 3 orthoganal coils with appropriate stuff - phase shift hardware to shift the phase to one phase for all of them then a diode bridge |
| 23:44.51 | AStorm | it might be tricky to tune them |
| 23:45.06 | SpeedEvil | sharpneli: or 3 diode bridges. |
| 23:45.18 | *** join/#maemo zimmerle (n=zimmerle@187.42.190.182) |
| 23:45.52 | sharpneli | Probably possible, still wont help one visualize it without the actual design. |
| 23:45.58 | javispedro | wow. people coming to tmo to basically say "I hate you all". |
| 23:46.13 | javispedro | in a PC manner, but anyway. |
| 23:48.32 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: Hairy Ball problem. Wikipedia Hairy Ball |
| 23:49.22 | sharpneli | That's a really neat way to state it. |
| 23:49.46 | AStorm | yeah, did I say it has to be mathematically perfect omnidirectional? |
| 23:49.52 | AStorm | it has to be good enough |
| 23:50.02 | GeneralAntilles | zerojayPC, done. |
| 23:50.19 | *** join/#maemo cjdavis (n=cjdavis@cpe-71-67-99-208.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 23:50.31 | *** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@nat/ibm/x-lkkvockhsstiyadq) |
| 23:50.36 | sharpneli | Any practical coil design will have nullpoints. Which still means that on some orientations the device wont pick anything up. |
| 23:51.07 | AStorm | yes, but if the device is large enough and the holes small enough... |
| 23:51.19 | *** join/#maemo ShellEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 23:51.54 | AStorm | EvilTor? :) |
| 23:51.54 | sharpneli | Um. I meant null in the direction pattern. Not any spatial null. |
| 23:51.57 | SpeedEvil1 | Also - it means the 'sharply coupled' nature drops out. |
| 23:52.15 | AStorm | no, it does not, because you can still tune |
| 23:52.26 | AStorm | tuning takes time though |
| 23:52.43 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: Can you expand on what you mean by 'tune' |
| 23:52.48 | *** join/#maemo JvA_ (n=no@h-62-33.A163.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 23:52.53 | sharpneli | We simulated those conditions. It starts to suck really quickly when it's not on optimal orientation / distance. |
| 23:53.05 | AStorm | find the resonant frequency, which will be close enough to ideal |
| 23:53.15 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=rsalveti@187.42.207.119) |
| 23:53.16 | AStorm | (or rather, rated) |
| 23:53.52 | *** join/#maemo vladovg (n=vladooo@amur.ddns-lan.lom.ekk.bg) |
| 23:54.50 | vladovg | hi |
| 23:55.02 | sharpneli | Yeah except the power transfer capabilities start to suck really quickly. |
| 23:55.06 | AStorm | SpeedEvil: it won't work when you're moving fast due to doppler effects |
| 23:55.24 | AStorm | no, they don't, because there's still resonance (which you've tuned) |
| 23:55.55 | AStorm | the whole problem is finding that frequency for the right distance/orientation combo |
| 23:56.08 | sharpneli | Um yeah. The Q value goes down quite quickly. |
| 23:56.19 | sharpneli | Which means more power wasted. |
| 23:56.22 | MaceN8x0 | EvilGuru, it was |
| 23:56.24 | AStorm | Q value of the simple coil, yes, but you're changing it |
| 23:56.29 | MaceN8x0 | it is almost over now |
| 23:56.32 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: Err - doppler is utterly irrelevant. |
| 23:56.41 | sharpneli | ? |
| 23:56.49 | MaceN8x0 | im just waiting on the football game |
| 23:56.49 | AStorm | add communication between the transmitter and receiver |
| 23:56.53 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: you can't. Q is set by the resistance of the coil. |
| 23:56.57 | AStorm | to pick correct frequencies |
| 23:57.04 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: and the operating frequency. |
| 23:57.04 | sharpneli | AStorm: How do you change the Q value? |
| 23:57.06 | AStorm | SpeedEvil: how do you tune radios? |
| 23:57.08 | AStorm | :P |
| 23:57.10 | sharpneli | :D |
| 23:57.11 | MaceN8x0 | Ä· |
| 23:57.12 | sharpneli | Okey :D |
| 23:57.14 | MaceN8x0 | oops |
| 23:57.20 | sharpneli | AStorm: What is Q value? :) |
| 23:57.23 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: by a means that is unrelated to this. |
| 23:57.30 | sharpneli | And what does it have to do with resonance? |
| 23:57.42 | AStorm | Q value is the width of the transmission band, so to say |
| 23:57.46 | sharpneli | :DDDD |
| 23:57.51 | AStorm | short version |
| 23:57.55 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: typically today - a PLL ran from a 32KHz or few MHz oscillator and a frac-n synth. |
| 23:58.05 | AStorm | correct |
| 23:58.07 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: Q is the 'perfection' of the coil. |
| 23:58.19 | SpeedEvil | AStorm: A circuit with infinite Q will ring forever. |
| 23:58.21 | MaceN8x0 | blah |
| 23:58.39 | sharpneli | And in short version you oughta said "Width of the transmission band is inverse of Q" |
| 23:58.49 | AStorm | also correct :) |
| 23:59.09 | AStorm | you want extreme narrowband |
| 23:59.09 | sharpneli | Basically you shortened it to mean complete falsehood. |
| 23:59.22 | AStorm | I've... messed up (again, inverted the definition) |
| 23:59.38 | sharpneli | Yep in this case the higher the Q ratio the less power is wasted. |
| 23:59.54 | sharpneli | So when the Q ratio goes down we simply start to waste more power. |
