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| 00:00.48 | SpeedEvil | http://browsershots.org/ - the nuclear option :) |
| 00:02.10 | timeless_mbp | grumbles |
| 00:02.16 | timeless_mbp | wtf are these people thinking? |
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| 00:05.19 | pupnik | amazing SpeedEvil - ty |
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| 00:59.15 | Proteous | anyone want to buy a slightly used n97? |
| 00:59.23 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 00:59.28 | GeneralAntilles | Didn't I tell you that was a bad plan? :P |
| 00:59.36 | Proteous | lol |
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| 01:15.46 | zerojayPC | scrolls up to see what the latest Luke drama is. |
| 01:15.54 | *** join/#maemo fengshaun (n=armin@blk-137-99-50.eastlink.ca) |
| 01:15.56 | zerojayPC | Oh... there actually is some. lol |
| 01:16.22 | fengshaun | hi, is it possible to test maemo 5 on a pc? (I don't have a cellphone) |
| 01:16.24 | GeneralAntilles | :rolleyes: |
| 01:16.31 | GeneralAntilles | fengshaun, you can install the SDK |
| 01:16.36 | GeneralAntilles | But it's not quite an emulator. |
| 01:16.44 | GeneralAntilles | It's a debugging environment more than anything. |
| 01:16.48 | zerojayPC | Don't expect to see all the whiz-bang effects. |
| 01:16.57 | fengshaun | GeneralAntilles: can I test some stuff in it? |
| 01:17.04 | GeneralAntilles | Or anything resembling feature-completeness. |
| 01:17.14 | GeneralAntilles | Your own applications and such? Sure. |
| 01:17.32 | fengshaun | oh thanks! |
| 01:17.33 | fengshaun | :) |
| 01:19.27 | *** join/#maemo angasule (n=angasule@201.250.97.8) |
| 01:20.32 | zerojayPC | He has our permission. ;P |
| 01:22.02 | zerojayPC | Heh... I was weirded out when I saw a commercial with U2 in it and it turned out NOT to be an iPod ad. |
| 01:22.14 | zerojayPC | "BLACKBERRY LOVES U2" |
| 01:22.17 | zerojayPC | wtf. |
| 01:22.27 | GeneralAntilles | U2 is the suck. |
| 01:22.47 | GeneralAntilles | Bono needs a slap of reality. |
| 01:23.04 | zerojayPC | lol |
| 01:23.10 | zerojayPC | I can't disagree. |
| 01:23.17 | GeneralAntilles | Good. :P |
| 01:23.52 | Firebird | hm, are accelerometer refresh rate specs lying around anywhere on maemo.org? |
| 01:24.02 | GeneralAntilles | Check the wiki. |
| 01:24.52 | GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Accelerometers |
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| 01:27.27 | zerojayPC | Expansys USA lists the N900 at $200. lol |
| 01:28.23 | GeneralAntilles | zerojayPC, yeah, look at their terms and conditions, though. |
| 01:28.27 | GeneralAntilles | It wont stay that way. |
| 01:28.43 | Firebird | wow, acer has made a phone too |
| 01:29.52 | Firebird | order now and they're be forced to honor the price? |
| 01:29.57 | Firebird | *they'll |
| 01:30.02 | zerojayPC | GeneralAntilles: Yeah, I'm sure it was just a mistake. |
| 01:30.04 | zerojayPC | No. |
| 01:30.28 | GeneralAntilles | Firebird, nah, they can arbitrarily change it at any time. |
| 01:31.00 | Firebird | ah, its priceless in the cart |
| 01:32.22 | SpeedEvil | Firebird: you do know that you can't use accels for inertial guidance? |
| 01:32.38 | *** join/#maemo fengshaun (n=armin@blk-137-99-50.eastlink.ca) |
| 01:32.42 | GeneralAntilles | Priceless. Hehe. |
| 01:33.22 | GeneralAntilles | To quote Inigo Montoya. . . . |
| 01:35.32 | Firebird | SpeedEvil, ? |
| 01:36.58 | zerojayPC | N900 keyboard's really not backlit? |
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| 01:37.40 | SpeedEvil | Firebird: many people asking that question in various groups I'm a member of seem to think that you can use the accels to improve GPS or position in buildings |
| 01:38.33 | Firebird | inertia != acceleration |
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| 01:43.23 | zerojayPC | Chatzilla. ;P |
| 01:44.26 | GiantTalkingCow | I've never been a huge fan of that addon. Always lagged on me, for some reason. Has that been fixed? |
| 01:47.16 | angasule | Firebird: what? it doesn't include inertiometers? :P |
| 01:52.38 | SpeedEvil | (inertial guidance is using accellerometers in combination with other sensors to work out position) |
| 01:56.34 | angasule | SpeedEvil: which doesn't reply a compass, unfortunately, but it's a cool thing to do anyway :D |
| 01:57.05 | SpeedEvil | yeah - but doesn't work with sucky accels like are currently available. |
| 01:57.44 | angasule | 'reply a compass'? what am I smoking? :( |
| 01:59.39 | angasule | hmm, nice, plenty of docs for ARM |
| 02:00.35 | angasule | ok, time for bed, good night |
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| 02:10.20 | zerojayPC | wtf... how is it that I've used 1.4GB of mobile data this month when I have barely done fuck all with my tablet...? |
| 02:10.37 | GeneralAntilles | It's been communicating with the mothership. |
| 02:11.32 | monkeyiq | anyone recall a gst-launch command to grab a single jpg from the n810's webcam? |
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| 02:25.46 | Toba | I'm going to have Nokia's baby so long as the free-ness of the maemo platform is sticking around... |
| 02:26.11 | GeneralAntilles | Good news! The freeness is getting better all the time. |
| 02:26.43 | *** join/#maemo mn3m0n1c (n=chatzill@pool-173-51-190-205.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) |
| 02:29.13 | mn3m0n1c | does the n900 have wifi and 3 g connectivity? |
| 02:29.34 | GeneralAntilles | Yes. |
| 02:29.47 | GeneralAntilles | mn3m0n1c, http://maemo.nokia.com/ |
| 02:31.34 | mn3m0n1c | cool thanks.....when does it come out and how much is it gonna cost? |
| 02:31.56 | GeneralAntilles | October is the rumor, should be around 500 euros, give or take depend on your locale. |
| 02:32.19 | mn3m0n1c | cool thanks |
| 02:32.59 | SpeedEvil | possibly lots less if carrier subsidised. |
| 02:33.10 | mn3m0n1c | right |
| 02:33.12 | SpeedEvil | But in that case some of the freedom may be compromised. |
| 02:33.19 | GeneralAntilles | I'm really interested in seeing how it looks on T-Mobile. |
| 02:33.24 | SpeedEvil | But that's unclear as of yet. |
| 02:33.27 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, I doubt it, personally. |
| 02:33.36 | GeneralAntilles | I can't see Nokia or Maemo Devices allowing much of that. |
| 02:33.47 | SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: I think it's safer to wait and see. |
| 02:33.56 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, new to the community? |
| 02:34.02 | SpeedEvil | If I'm wrong, I'll be very happy. |
| 02:34.29 | SpeedEvil | has an openmoko phone - but new to maemo. |
| 02:34.31 | zerojayPC | If there was any sort of locking down, maemo.org would go down in flames. |
| 02:34.44 | zerojayPC | And I'm not talking about people typing out angry rants. |
| 02:34.56 | GeneralAntilles | Well, SpeedEvil, based on what I know about the product, the platform and the community from the past 3 years, I'd say it's highly unlikely. |
| 02:35.01 | GeneralAntilles | But, yes, safer to wait and see. |
| 02:35.21 | SpeedEvil | Fair enough. The other alternative is that carriers won't let it on. |
| 02:35.27 | GeneralAntilles | Right |
| 02:35.35 | SpeedEvil | (I mean on as in provide subsidy) |
| 02:35.42 | GeneralAntilles | Right |
| 02:35.57 | GeneralAntilles | We've only got a couple of rumors and some FCC docs to support T-Mobile USA carrying it. |
| 02:37.23 | GeneralAntilles | Things are changing very quickly, though. |
| 02:37.33 | GeneralAntilles | The N900 signals a big shift in the industry, though. |
| 02:37.34 | SpeedEvil | Hope they think a contract to carry on paying t-mobile is enough. |
| 02:37.46 | SpeedEvil | The N900 being widely accepted by carriers |
| 02:37.56 | ArSa | there's only one provider in USA that supports that band, so no need to even lock it down |
| 02:38.05 | SpeedEvil | ArSa: quadband |
| 02:38.11 | ArSa | no, i mean data band |
| 02:38.13 | ArSa | wcdma |
| 02:38.15 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 02:38.22 | SpeedEvil | Hadn't looked at that. |
| 02:38.28 | ArSa | it will only do 3G on t-mobile, not on at&t |
| 02:38.43 | GeneralAntilles | Hopefully that changes. |
| 02:38.50 | GeneralAntilles | I will be so pissed if there's no AT&T 3G. |
| 02:38.51 | SpeedEvil | At some point the carriers will lose their stranglehold on what hardware is available. |
| 02:39.03 | ArSa | i don't see that, i don't think there's a quad-band wcdma radio |
| 02:39.12 | SpeedEvil | Will it be October? |
| 02:39.14 | ArSa | which is kinda complicated |
| 02:39.23 | b-man16 | ~seen xnt14 |
| 02:39.25 | infobot | xnt14 is currently on #maemo (11h 18m 38s). Has said a total of 34 messages. Is idling for 5h 59m 34s, last said: '*bored'. |
| 02:39.25 | GeneralAntilles | Changing to T-Mobile is a non-starter |
| 02:39.31 | benson_ | Hi. How can N810 connect to internet using bluetooth via a windows-xp? |
| 02:39.32 | GeneralAntilles | Two iPhones on the plan I'm on. |
| 02:39.33 | ArSa | GeneralAntilles i agree |
| 02:39.42 | GeneralAntilles | Plus, T-Mobile doesn't provide 3G in my area. |
| 02:39.48 | ArSa | coverage sucks even more than at&t |
| 02:39.50 | SpeedEvil | t-mobile is actually quite reasonable in the UK. |
| 02:40.01 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, the US is not the UK, however. |
| 02:40.13 | GeneralAntilles | There isn't much land to cover in the UK. |
| 02:40.16 | SpeedEvil | I'm currently getting GPRS data - when I use it - for a capped pound a day. |
| 02:40.27 | SpeedEvil | yes, I know. Market conditions and all. |
| 02:40.38 | ArSa | no, it's distances |
| 02:40.44 | SpeedEvil | and that. |
| 02:40.46 | ArSa | that's why cdma kinda works better here |
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| 02:41.04 | SpeedEvil | more network build for the same coverage. |
| 02:41.52 | ArSa | there are some relatively populated areas (where i am right now) where there's no gsm and none planned. |
| 02:42.11 | ArSa | but i'll move for n900 :P |
| 02:42.36 | GeneralAntilles | Who wants to bet no AT&T 3G bands was a T-Mobile requirement? |
| 02:42.52 | b-man16 | is the t-mobile service for the N900 optional btw? |
| 02:43.25 | ArSa | GeneralAntilles it's not really that. most of the world uses the wcdma frequencies that are in n900 |
| 02:43.25 | GeneralAntilles | b-man16, ever know Nokia not to sell unlocked? |
| 02:43.28 | b-man16 | :[ |
| 02:43.33 | SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: it's not completely implausible - however - there is limited flexibility available in the RF sections. You may not be able to get a module that will work for _all_ your markets |
| 02:43.38 | ArSa | GeneralAntilles but US is special as always, same as with 850/1700 band |
| 02:43.52 | GeneralAntilles | "Special" |
| 02:44.51 | zerojayPC | Retarded. :) |
| 02:45.01 | GeneralAntilles | Shut up, Canada. :P |
| 02:45.09 | ArSa | it sucks, but that's life. i think it started with cdma itself using these normal 900/1800 frequencies. and it went from there :-\ |
| 02:45.12 | *** join/#maemo esaym153 (n=esaym153@cpe-24-174-186-34.satx.res.rr.com) |
| 02:45.26 | zerojayPC | :) |
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| 02:47.09 | GeneralAntilles | No AT&T 3G may kill me, in fact. |
| 02:47.48 | mn3m0n1c | will they let you use skype on a 3g network? |
| 02:47.58 | GeneralAntilles | Yes |
| 02:48.05 | mn3m0n1c | cool |
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| 03:17.50 | ShadowJK | that video is so awesome |
| 03:17.53 | ShadowJK | watches it again |
| 03:21.42 | *** join/#maemo doc|work (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
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| 03:31.54 | doc|work | is mer as usable as OS2008? |
| 03:33.06 | GeneralAntilles | doc|home, not yet. |
| 03:33.58 | doc|work | ok, thanks |
| 03:34.55 | doc|work | any carrier lists yet?> |
| 03:34.58 | doc|work | (on the n900( |
| 03:35.03 | doc|work | typing fail |
| 03:38.34 | Proteous | lol |
| 03:38.47 | Proteous | tmobile in the US according to the FCC filing |
| 03:40.36 | doc|work | anything about canada? |
| 03:41.05 | ShadowJK | finds these carrier questions hilarious for some reason |
| 03:42.00 | doc|work | ? |
| 03:42.19 | zerojayPC | sighs. |
| 03:42.31 | zerojayPC | They didn't talk about carrier stuff. |
| 03:42.42 | zerojayPC | That hasn't changed since the last time you asked less than 24 hours ago. |
| 03:43.26 | zerojayPC | So many people are asking questions that we can't answer yet. At least let us get closer to release first, lol |
| 03:43.41 | doc|work | erm, ok |
| 03:43.57 | doc|work | I haven't been here since this morning... hadn't seen anything ... |
| 03:44.14 | zerojayPC | You should know by now that us Canadians always get shit last anyways. lol |
| 03:44.23 | doc|work | heh |
| 03:44.34 | ShadowJK | I mean where I live, nobody gives a rat's ass about which carriers, which retailers, which etailers, which shady street corner vendors selling "fell off a truck"-ware has a certain device.. there'll always be many places and you just shop around and get where it's cheapest or most convenient :) |
| 03:44.55 | doc|work | ShadowJK: here it's all about the telcos :/ |
| 03:45.11 | zerojayPC | Not with Nokia hardware. |
| 03:45.23 | doc|work | ShadowJK: sadly, bad telco choice and you end up paying much more than you have to |
| 03:45.32 | zerojayPC | Unless you're stuck on some shitty telco. |
| 03:45.58 | doc|work | given it's gsm I'm guessing it'll be rogers/fido but wondering about costs :/ |
| 03:46.29 | zerojayPC | Well, we know the European price. |
| 03:46.46 | doc|work | yep |
| 03:46.47 | zerojayPC | So anywhere between $500 and $800, I guess. |
| 03:46.59 | ShadowJK | doc|work, I think the part that makes me find it funny is that you guys seem not only fine with this slavery, you're demanding nokia to have sorted out the details of a continuation of the telco oppression in advance of the offical release of the device even! :) |
| 03:47.28 | doc|work | ShadowJK: fine with it? I'd like nothing more than the entire thing to be deregulated so there could be some real competition :/ |
| 03:47.48 | ShadowJK | I think you mean you want it to be regulated ;) |
| 03:47.50 | doc|work | ShadowJK: is it that weird to think they might have talked to some? have some agreements in place? |
| 03:48.09 | ShadowJK | ah I dunno |
| 03:48.25 | GeneralAntilles | Regulation is what allows the monopolies to stay in place. |
| 03:48.29 | doc|work | ShadowJK: haha, no, regulation is exactly the problem. The head regulator is a former exec who worked for two of telcos |
| 03:48.43 | doc|work | GeneralAntilles: indeed |
| 03:50.09 | ShadowJK | You know what pushed service prices down the most here? Number portability |
| 03:50.24 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (n=wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 03:51.40 | ShadowJK | Wanna switch provider? Sign up with a new one and tell them you want to keep your old number. You get a new sim card, and you get a SMS when it's time to switch the card. A reboot of the phone later and you're on a new provider with the same old number you had before |
| 03:52.14 | zerojayPC | Must be nice doing that without a contract. |
| 03:52.15 | ShadowJK | But when providers are allowed to lock you in for years at a time, it puts a big damper on competition |
| 03:52.17 | doc|work | same in most places |
| 03:52.57 | doc|work | ShadowJK: most places that's more to do with contracts that you agree to. I've gotten pay as you go (credit) phones here because the plans suck so much. |
| 03:53.13 | doc|work | and because of them sucking so much, I don't give them my money unless absolutely necessary |
| 03:54.01 | ShadowJK | This is an area, I think, where regulation could be beneficial, to break up conditions where competition isn't working properly :) |
| 03:54.40 | GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, deregulate, then address monopoly situations as they arise. |
| 03:54.41 | doc|work | ShadowJK: they've been regulated for years. Want to find the best telco systems? Go to africa. Unregulated there and far ahead of what we have here. |
| 03:54.52 | GeneralAntilles | That's how the government works if it's actually doing its job. |
| 03:55.05 | doc|work | with deregulation there's no such thing as a monopoly without the companies actually serving their customers |
| 03:55.32 | doc|work | otherwise someone else will serve their customers for them :) |
| 03:56.16 | GeneralAntilles | Ideally, but certainly not guaranteed. |
| 03:56.20 | GeneralAntilles | Which is why the government exists. |
| 03:56.56 | doc|work | true monopolies (companies with massive market shares who don't serve their customers) without governments |
| 03:57.12 | doc|work | most telco problems we have now exist because they had monopolies |
| 03:57.18 | doc|work | (government granted) |
| 03:57.48 | doc|work | er, s/without governments/can't exist without governments |
| 03:59.35 | GeneralAntilles | Anybody create a wiki article for the N900 yet? |
| 04:00.32 | GeneralAntilles | That they have. |
| 04:05.16 | johnx | mornin' :) |
| 04:06.48 | GAN800 | Hey, johnx. |
| 04:06.56 | GAN800 | See the new site? ;) |
| 04:07.02 | johnx | yeah, |
| 04:07.19 | johnx | am gonna go for a walk with the missus, then dive into the announcements |
| 04:07.23 | johnx | interesting times :) |
| 04:07.33 | *** join/#maemo BBNS (n=chatzill@108.49.171.66.subscriber.vzavenue.net) |
| 04:07.43 | BBNS | N900 yeah! |
| 04:07.45 | johnx | also, the device cheaper than I thought it was going to be :) |
| 04:07.47 | GAN800 | Indeed. |
| 04:07.49 | johnx | probably still out of my reach, though |
| 04:08.01 | GAN800 | Discount codes! |
| 04:08.04 | *** join/#maemo Shinto (n=John@f048011045.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 04:08.07 | GAN800 | Cross your fingers. |
| 04:08.14 | johnx | shrugs |
| 04:08.36 | GAN800 | I've heard 'probably to expensive' from most of the core community people. |
| 04:08.57 | johnx | time will tell |
| 04:08.57 | johnx | I'm mostly excited about harmattan |
| 04:09.05 | GAN800 | I'd really hope Nokia realizes what a resource they'd be leaving behind if they didn't provide discounts. |
| 04:09.23 | GAN800 | johnx, gotta see the UI vids. |
| 04:09.33 | GAN800 | They ooze slick. |
| 04:09.34 | zerojayPC | Right now. |
| 04:10.32 | johnx | I'll check it out in a bit |
| 04:10.42 | johnx | but marketing vids will make anything look slick |
| 04:10.51 | zerojayPC | not like this. |
| 04:10.55 | GAN800 | No, Quim and Jussi demo vids. |
| 04:11.18 | johnx | back in 30min |
| 04:11.30 | doc|work | still much cheaper than an iphone, isn't it? |
| 04:11.34 | doc|work | what's harmattan? |
| 04:11.48 | GAN800 | Maemo 6 |
| 04:11.52 | doc|work | ah |
| 04:12.25 | *** join/#maemo chx (n=chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 04:12.39 | GAN800 | See the roadmap on wiki.maemo.org |
| 04:13.36 | doc|work | yeah, reading it now. I'm not seeing that much to get very excited about. Am I missing something? |
| 04:13.38 | *** join/#maemo chmac (n=chmac@modemcable188.82-59-74.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 04:14.18 | GAN800 | Well, it's the Maemo release that's targetted for the masses. |
| 04:14.19 | chx | anyone knows what GPS chip is used in the N900? |
| 04:14.30 | chx | the same ... problematic one ... we had until now? |
| 04:14.45 | GAN800 | I suspect johnx's excitement stems from the platform improvements, though. |
| 04:15.51 | GAN800 | chx, highly unlikely. |
| 04:16.14 | GAN800 | Even if it is, though, it's actually got a cellular radio for the A in AGPS. |
| 04:16.35 | Luke-Jr | chx: the N810's GPS chip is not problematic, it is Nokia's driver blob that is broken |
| 04:16.52 | doc|work | hmmm, ok, I'm thinking maemo on the n900 will do a lot |
| 04:16.58 | Luke-Jr | Nokia refuses to fix it because the N900 has a different chip |
| 04:17.00 | doc|work | (to interest the masses) |
| 04:17.05 | Luke-Jr | or at least that's how I understood their refusal to fix it |
| 04:17.05 | doc|work | it's very slick |
| 04:17.32 | *** join/#maemo eichi_ (n=eichi@93.132.152.59) |
| 04:17.33 | GAN800 | Yeah |
| 04:17.47 | Luke-Jr | (there is also supposedly a poor antenna on the N810 GPS, but that has never actually been a source of problems for me) |
| 04:17.54 | GAN800 | The multitasking seems to pretty much destroy everything else on the market. |
| 04:18.23 | doc|work | yeah |
| 04:18.38 | doc|work | is maemo 5 gtk or qt? I thought os2008 was gtk. |
| 04:18.47 | zerojayPC | It is. |
| 04:18.50 | GAN800 | GTK/Clutter |
| 04:19.00 | GAN800 | With community supported Qt. |
| 04:19.12 | doc|work | ah |
| 04:19.14 | GAN800 | Harmattan is Qt with community supported GTK. |
| 04:19.20 | doc|work | I see |
| 04:19.26 | doc|work | thanks for the answers |
| 04:19.35 | Luke-Jr | are there any Nokia employees chatting here at the moment? |
| 04:20.19 | chx | So.... 500EUR oct? |
| 04:20.40 | Luke-Jr | guess not... what do you guys think of instead buying Samsung OmniaPro and porting Linux to it? ;) |
| 04:20.41 | kirma | I must say I'm not extremely pleased by the fact it doesn't have Qt, unless the community-supported version provides trivial compability path for applications to future releases, and actually works quite well already... |
| 04:21.09 | Luke-Jr | kirma: even future Qt-based versions should have GTK available |
| 04:22.02 | Luke-Jr | (and, if you're not a developer or lack the time, would you buy a Samsung phone instead of N900 if we can get a working port of Linux to it?) |
| 04:22.04 | GAN800 | kirma, Qt is right in Extras. |
| 04:22.04 | kirma | yes, but that's still going to lose official support quite "soon", and Qt is going to be the platform for Nokia devices... |
| 04:22.21 | GAN800 | You can install it right now on a Diablo device even. |
| 04:22.22 | Luke-Jr | kirma: well, GTK has always been dead to me |
| 04:23.00 | GAN800 | Luke-Jr, I don't support manufacturers who put Windows on their devices. |
| 04:23.44 | kirma | I'm mostly wondering how well the features of Qt for mobile apps (I imagine intelligent connection management, location and sensor data, integration to phone-type apps) is supported now and what it will be at harmattan/mainstream Qt-on-S60 releases |
| 04:23.46 | Luke-Jr | GAN800: even if we can install Linux? where do you get your laptops? ;p |
| 04:24.12 | kirma | I fear "for this release, it has to be done way A, and later releases way B" |
| 04:24.54 | Luke-Jr | kirma: AFAIK those features don't exist in Qt proper right now at all |
| 04:25.02 | kirma | exactly... |
| 04:25.09 | Luke-Jr | kirma: I doubt Nokia will stop using gpsd for future location things tho |
| 04:25.18 | Luke-Jr | unless they already have for n900 |
| 04:25.52 | kirma | well, portability to Qt on S60 is one thing I'm pondering |
| 04:26.06 | Luke-Jr | actually, Qt Extended already has a Location API |
| 04:26.26 | Luke-Jr | Qt is historically quite good at keeping compatibility within major releases |
| 04:26.37 | GAN800 | I don't buy laptops. |
| 04:26.53 | GAN800 | The netbook I have came from Dell with Ubuntu. |
| 04:27.34 | zerojayPC | I said it before... and now, I'll definitely say it again. |
| 04:27.41 | zerojayPC | I've bought my last desktop/laptop. |
| 04:27.41 | kirma | "quite good" starts to sound like "S60 is quite good" in this perspective ;> |
| 04:27.43 | Luke-Jr | GAN800: so the as-shipped state is more important to you than the capable-of state? |
| 04:27.54 | GAN800 | Luke-Jr, I'll remind you that by purchasing that phone you're giving money to Microsoft. |
| 04:28.08 | Luke-Jr | GAN800: it's not about the money |
| 04:28.08 | zerojayPC | After the N900... I don't see any way that I could go back to a tower ever again. |
| 04:28.32 | GAN800 | By purchasing an N900 you're encouraging Nokia to continue paying several dozen fulltime open source developers. |
| 04:28.35 | Luke-Jr | for me, it's about having something I can use |
| 04:29.16 | GAN800 | Of course, it's self-conflicting zealot attitudes like yours that prevent open source from gaining real ground. |
| 04:29.20 | Luke-Jr | by supporting a platform with open specs, I am encouraging people to release specs ;) |
| 04:29.43 | GAN800 | zerojayPC, I use a tower and a tablet. Perfect combo. |
| 04:30.13 | GAN800 | Luke-Jr, how do you expect your precious open source software to grow if not for money. |
| 04:30.41 | GAN800 | The biggest contributors to open source are all large commercial companies. |
| 04:30.47 | zerojayPC | GAN800: I hardly ever use my tower anymore except to passively share media. |
| 04:30.47 | Luke-Jr | GAN800: the more people that buy open-spec hardware, the more hardware will be released with open specs to sell it |
| 04:31.15 | GAN800 | You're a fool who's skewed perspective of reality is profoundly flawed. |
| 04:31.24 | ShadowJK | OmniaPro has open gps specs? |
| 04:31.30 | zerojayPC | He doesn't mince his words, does he? lol |
| 04:31.39 | GAN800 | zerojayPC, I need to do lots of things which need real horsepower. |
| 04:31.50 | ShadowJK | I'd thought something like htc dream would be closer to open |
| 04:32.11 | GAN800 | stops feeding the troll. |
| 04:32.12 | zerojayPC | GAN800: I can't think of anything I need a hardcore PC to do anymore. |
| 04:32.25 | ShadowJK | ... reading email |
| 04:32.26 | Luke-Jr | ShadowJK: the SoC is open, at least; I figure 3D accel is the biggest hurdle |
| 04:32.35 | zerojayPC | ShadowJK: Nope. |
| 04:32.50 | Luke-Jr | ShadowJK: N8x0 GPS certainly isn't open, so there's only room for an improvement |
| 04:32.57 | ShadowJK | claws chokes at around 25000 per folder for me, so I need a desktop machine occasionally :) |
| 04:33.07 | zerojayPC | I don't use claws. |
| 04:33.17 | ShadowJK | until N900 with more RAM comes out anyway... provided it's not wasted on slickness and other crap. |
| 04:33.27 | GAN800 | zerojayPC, processing RAW photos, film/video, 2D/3D imaging and processing, media playback and anything that requires working with large amounts of text. |
| 04:33.28 | zerojayPC | Just nice Modest with Gmail via IMAP. |
| 04:33.38 | ShadowJK | (modest wouldn't even touch my imap server and didn't tell me why) |
| 04:33.53 | Pavlov | hmm |
| 04:34.03 | zerojayPC | GAN800: I don't do any of that. |
| 04:34.32 | chx | what's this "tower" you are talking of? |
| 04:34.44 | Luke-Jr | GAN800: the real numbers don't support that: individuals contribute more than companies |
| 04:34.48 | Luke-Jr | http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/lpc_2008_keynote.html |
| 04:34.55 | zerojayPC | Well... I do media playback, but I just share my 3TB worth of media to my Xbox, PS3 and tablet and I'm good. |
| 04:34.55 | GAN800 | chx, dual 2.5GHz G5 in my case. |
| 04:35.08 | chx | ah |
| 04:35.29 | chx | i am ditching it these weeks , as soon as my Lenovo T400s lands :) |
| 04:35.30 | GAN800 | zerojayPC, my G5 is my home theater. |
| 04:35.55 | zerojayPC | Yeah, I pretty much use mine the same way, except I just share it to every TV and computer in my house. |
| 04:36.10 | GAN800 | I also game sometimes. |
| 04:36.30 | GAN800 | Although not so much anymore since Apple fucked PPC owners. |
| 04:36.31 | zerojayPC | I don't really play PC games much. I've got consoles for that. |
| 04:37.39 | GAN800 | Yeah, that's mostly the case for me these days, but a lot of things just don't compare. |
| 04:38.10 | GAN800 | You can't spend all night hanging around on a Tremulous server on a console. |
| 04:38.31 | zerojayPC | You can when you run Linux on your PS3. :) |
| 04:38.41 | GAN800 | Meh |
| 04:38.46 | zerojayPC | That's a game I never understood. |
| 04:38.57 | zerojayPC | I started it up... kind of went... "wtf..." |
| 04:39.40 | GAN800 | It's amazing once you pick up the mechanics. |
| 04:39.56 | GAN800 | But aliens tends to throw people off. |
| 04:39.59 | Luke-Jr | zerojayPC: even w/o 3D accel? |
| 04:40.12 | GAN800 | It's unlike almost any other FPS out there. |
| 04:40.25 | zerojayPC | Luke-Jr: I don't remember it really requiring it. |
| 04:40.32 | Macer | man |
| 04:40.36 | Macer | really want an n900 |
| 04:40.42 | Macer | heh |
| 04:40.43 | GAN800 | http://www.hundredpushups.com is kicking my ass. |
| 04:40.48 | Macer | when are they supposed to go on sale? |
| 04:41.05 | GAN800 | October supposedly. |
| 04:41.10 | ShadowJK | in select markets |
| 04:41.22 | Macer | "select markets" |
| 04:41.29 | Macer | what exactly does that mean :) |
| 04:41.31 | Macer | europe? heh |
| 04:41.34 | Corsac | âsomeâ |
| 04:41.45 | zerojayPC | Europe, North America, Middle East, apparently. |
| 04:42.06 | chx | that'd be great |
| 04:42.44 | GAN800 | will die if there are no AT&T 3G frequencies. |
| 04:42.46 | Pavlov | i htink its going to be nice |
| 04:43.00 | doc|home | can I have one now? Can I? Can I? Pleasepleaseplease? |
| 04:43.31 | zerojayPC | hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... no. |
| 04:43.45 | chx | GAN800: look at the WCMDA (HSDPA) frequencies |
| 04:43.50 | chx | GAN800: 1700. |
| 04:44.05 | chx | oh wait |
| 04:44.05 | chx | that's for Tmobile. |
| 04:44.05 | GAN800 | T-Mobile. |
| 04:44.22 | Corsac | well, if people could use standard frequencies⦠|
| 04:44.27 | zerojayPC | Phone providers can go fuck themselves. |
| 04:44.36 | zerojayPC | I spent 3 years trying to cater to those bastards. |
| 04:44.39 | Pavlov | the 3g thing has been annoying me a lot lately |
| 04:45.02 | Pavlov | i've got like 4 at&t sim cards, and i keep getting random european windows mobile devices that don't do more than edge |
| 04:45.08 | chx | 181gramm ... |
| 04:45.10 | zerojayPC | A nice round "fuck you" to Verizon for taking a year to check the text for one of our games and then sending back a simple "no". |
| 04:46.23 | zerojayPC | And another "Fuck you" to KDDI in Japan who told us that showing a graphic of a pair of lips (to signify a kiss) overlaid on the screen was "too hot" when they operate in the land of tentacle porn. |
| 04:47.08 | GAN800 | lol |
| 04:47.11 | doc|home | hahaha |
| 04:47.16 | doc|home | bitter much? :) |
| 04:47.37 | zerojayPC | Oh, also another big fuck you goes out to whomever we dealt with in China. |
| 04:47.41 | Corsac | ahaha tentacle pr0n :) |
| 04:48.03 | zerojayPC | Your bastard testers decided to send us fucking MS paint "drawings" when we asked for fucking screenshots. |
| 04:48.18 | zerojayPC | I printed some out and put them on our office fridge. |
| 04:48.51 | zerojayPC | Someone asked me if it was my kid's drawings. I had to tell him "no, this was a 30 year old man trying to tell me that a certain character wasn't in the right spot". |
| 04:49.02 | zerojayPC | "But it looks like speghetti." "I KNOW." |
| 04:49.41 | zerojayPC | Always nice to get back bug reports saying "it look bad" also. |
| 04:50.02 | zerojayPC | Oh, and Czech was fun. |
| 04:50.55 | zerojayPC | After telling the translator exactly which encoding to use to translate the game, he ignored it and then when we tried to tell him it was wrong, we got back an e-mail from his girlfriend saying a horse dragged him out of his bed and he died. |
| 04:51.16 | zerojayPC | Do not even ask me how a fucking horse is anywhere near this dude's bed. |
| 04:51.23 | Stskeeps | well at least he got what was coming for him |
| 04:51.37 | zerojayPC | The Romanian testers were plenty of fun. |
| 04:51.57 | zerojayPC | They got paid pennies... so they would simply steal and sell the test devices they had. |
| 04:52.43 | zerojayPC | Need to test your game out on a 6230? Oh shit, Romanu sold it on the street corner last night, sorry. |
| 04:53.19 | GeneralAntilles | bangs head on desk at point #3 http://www.maemo-guru.com/2009/08/10-awesome-features-of-maemo5/ |
| 04:53.24 | zerojayPC | So... compared to that shit... dealing with Finnglish is a walk in the park. |
| 04:53.29 | zerojayPC | GeneralAntilles: You too, huh? |
| 04:53.52 | GeneralAntilles | and #9 |
| 04:53.54 | GeneralAntilles | Dumbasses |
| 04:53.54 | Pavlov | heh |
| 04:53.58 | GeneralAntilles | Maemo-Idiots |
| 04:54.10 | zerojayPC | That's what happens when you ignore the tablets for two years and suddenly restart your blog the day of the announcement. |
| 04:54.30 | Pavlov | what is it with europeans and the need to have week numbers all over your calendar |
| 04:55.09 | Stskeeps | Pavlov: in nokia it probably makes a lot of sense :P |
| 04:55.17 | Pavlov | oh, no doubt :) |
| 04:55.18 | zerojayPC | GeneralAntilles: Funny when he has the balls to call himself the Maemo/Tablet Guru. ;) |
| 04:55.26 | Stskeeps | my god, there's a gripe thread already |
| 04:55.31 | Pavlov | haha |
| 04:56.20 | Stskeeps | i should get coffee before getting depressed over this thread |
| 04:56.26 | Pavlov | url? |
| 04:56.35 | Pavlov | should be entertaining |
| 04:57.03 | Stskeeps | http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=44 is a bundle of fun |
| 04:57.11 | *** join/#maemo macmaN6789 (n=lkraav@84-50-206-151-dsl.est.estpak.ee) |
| 04:57.14 | zerojayPC | @rabbitrun84 = 163.com's N900 report is totally wrong! It said that u can't phone call with N900... Their editors obviously can't read English at all :( |
| 04:57.15 | zerojayPC | Heh. |
| 04:57.26 | johnx | why are people so freaking negative? |
| 04:57.32 | ShadowJK | week numbers are used alot in .fi atleast |
| 04:58.02 | Pavlov | yeah |
| 04:58.04 | Pavlov | i know |
| 04:58.06 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, Nokia's beaten all the positiveness out of us. |
| 04:58.08 | Pavlov | but they make no sense in the US |
| 04:58.10 | zerojayPC | johnx: They're manifesting their real issue: "I want it and can't have it." |
| 04:58.46 | Pavlov | Stskeeps: this thread is pretty funny |
| 04:59.04 | zerojayPC | Some other site saying that the tablet is 800x600. Heh. |
| 04:59.05 | johnx | s/can't have it/have to pay money for it/ ? |
| 04:59.14 | Pavlov | i do wish they'd put a snapdragon in it |
| 04:59.15 | doc|home | is the proc artificially limited? |
| 04:59.22 | GeneralAntilles | I can't say I care for him using the maemo.org logo. |
| 04:59.26 | zerojayPC | proc? |
| 04:59.32 | doc|home | processor |
| 04:59.35 | Pavlov | not really |
| 04:59.40 | GeneralAntilles | Pavlov, isn't TI more open? |
| 04:59.56 | Pavlov | omap35xx's aren't really meant to run a lot faster |
| 04:59.59 | Pavlov | GeneralAntilles: a bit |
| 05:00.11 | Luke-Jr | what's a snapdragon? O.op |
| 05:00.18 | Pavlov | GeneralAntilles: but the extra clockspeed seems to make a pretty big difference from what i've seen |
| 05:00.20 | johnx | Luke-Jr, tell you when you're older :> |
| 05:00.31 | GeneralAntilles | Idiot. |
| 05:00.34 | Pavlov | but i've only got a couple snapdragon devices |
| 05:00.37 | GeneralAntilles | He's got a captcha with no image. |
| 05:00.46 | GeneralAntilles | "Guess what to put in the blank, required field to contact us!" |
| 05:00.51 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.maemo-guru.com/contact-us/ |
| 05:01.03 | Luke-Jr | Pavlov: why not Samsung for that matter? |
| 05:01.04 | doc|home | GeneralAntilles: begins with a, ends with hole |
| 05:01.08 | GeneralAntilles | Pavlov, honestly, I have a lot of brand loyalty for TI. |
| 05:01.18 | GeneralAntilles | They've really made some major strides in open source over the past few years. |
| 05:01.21 | Pavlov | GeneralAntilles: yep |
| 05:01.22 | zerojayPC | GeneralAntilles: I don't see a field for a captcha. |
| 05:01.26 | GeneralAntilles | and I'd like to encourage more of that behavior. |
| 05:01.28 | Pavlov | i like a lot of the stuff TI has done |
| 05:01.35 | Pavlov | i just dont think they have the best chips right now |
| 05:01.42 | GeneralAntilles | zerojayPC, see the blank field with the asterisk next to it above the Send button? |
| 05:01.59 | zerojayPC | Ah, yeah... see it. |
| 05:02.07 | Pavlov | i haven't heard anything really about their cortex a9 plans, but am hopeful |
| 05:02.30 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@143.84-49-131.nextgentel.com) |
| 05:02.32 | GeneralAntilles | Anybody have his email address? . . . . |
| 05:02.43 | zerojayPC | I talk to him direct through Twitter. |
| 05:03.01 | GeneralAntilles | Pavlov, OMAP4 looks purty so far. |
| 05:03.04 | zerojayPC | @rcadden is his personal account. @maemoguru for... his... Maemo.... Guruness.lol |
| 05:03.16 | Pavlov | have they announced anything? |
| 05:03.34 | Pavlov | i guess the arm event was a week or two ago |
| 05:04.22 | Pavlov | i dont really like the powervr sgx stuff |
| 05:04.37 | Pavlov | tegra's have got everyone beat so hard on GPU |
| 05:04.55 | benson_ | good morning |
| 05:05.36 | GeneralAntilles | Pavlov, they have stuff on their website. |
| 05:05.36 | kirma | does anybody have an idea if harmattan is going to be provided as upgrade for N900? like "2010 OS edition" or something... |
| 05:05.42 | Pavlov | GeneralAntilles: yeah, just saw |
| 05:05.54 | GeneralAntilles | http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12842&contentId=53247 |
| 05:05.57 | kirma | or rather, does somebody have a strong hunch that it's *not* going to happen? |
| 05:06.06 | GeneralAntilles | kirma, that'd be "Maemo 6" |
| 05:06.16 | GeneralAntilles | and I imagine it'll ship just like OS2008 did for the N800. |
| 05:07.44 | kirma | somehow I feel that although I'm very pleased Maemo is being taken to the big market, the developer side, and maybe even the customer experience will be a bit too much in flux in the beginning |
| 05:09.28 | johnx | change is scary |
| 05:09.36 | GeneralAntilles | O_O |
| 05:09.48 | johnx | that's why so many people choose to stop aging at 10 or so :D |
| 05:10.14 | GeneralAntilles | Ha |
| 05:10.22 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, watch the Jussi and Quim video yet? |
| 05:10.44 | johnx | am poking at maemo.nokia.com |
| 05:11.36 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, YouTube. |
| 05:11.37 | GeneralAntilles | Check it out. |
| 05:11.46 | kirma | well, I just hoped to see Qt ready to be shipped now, and developers not needing to hop from one platform to another or try a bit wobbly platform at this point |
| 05:11.49 | johnx | one thing at a time |
| 05:12.01 | johnx | I'm bathing in some honest to god marketing dollars for once |
| 05:12.14 | johnx | kirma, there will be qt for fremantle |
| 05:12.25 | johnx | it's already here for diablo |
| 05:12.55 | johnx | it'll be in a bit of flux, but I don't think there's any deal breakers in terms of developing for qt now. correct me if I'm wrong of course :) |
| 05:13.51 | kirma | the thing is how to convince companies to develop the applications... they have two options, out of which one is good now, but sour in future, other on trial level regarding support, although it is going to be good in future |
| 05:14.05 | GAN800 | Yeah, and I suspect GTK will be fine through Harmattan. |
| 05:14.22 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 05:14.26 | kirma | mostly that Qt should integrate those more mobile-phone functions on it eventually, and now one needs to do manual tinkering. |
| 05:15.12 | kirma | if I understood right... |
| 05:15.15 | GAN800 | hands timeless_mbp a bar of chocolate. |
| 05:15.24 | Stskeeps | stumbles to the coffee machine |
| 05:15.24 | timeless_mbp | thanks |
| 05:15.33 | timeless_mbp | chocolate is like coffee, but better |
| 05:16.03 | GAN800 | dreams of bacon, eggs, and grits for breakfast. |
| 05:16.04 | doc|work | mmmchocolate |
| 05:16.51 | GAN800 | woot.com has a stepladder. . . . |
| 05:17.22 | *** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 05:17.37 | Stskeeps | n900 for 100 usd? ;) |
| 05:17.47 | Stskeeps | ah |
| 05:17.51 | Stskeeps | that kind of ladder |
| 05:18.37 | johnx | what kind of ladder were you thinking about? |
| 05:18.45 | Stskeeps | new product arriving or something :P |
| 05:20.37 | timeless_mbp | Luke-Jr: most of us aren't particularly early birds |
| 05:21.21 | timeless_mbp | but that doesn't mean we don't read the scrollback or the logs |
| 05:22.11 | Pavlov | heh |
| 05:27.29 | Luke-Jr | timeless_mbp: I just wanted to avoid risking accidentally insulting anyone again. :/ |
| 05:28.50 | timeless_mbp | Pavlov: believe me, i complained about the idiotic week numbers |
| 05:29.00 | timeless_mbp | sadly they insisted that they didn't have resources to make two layouts |
| 05:29.05 | timeless_mbp | and that it'd "be ok" |
| 05:29.19 | timeless_mbp | i don't have the capital to tell them to go F**** themselves |
| 05:29.36 | Pavlov | heh |
| 05:29.52 | timeless_mbp | they also demanded prioritized lists of bugs from me |
| 05:29.58 | timeless_mbp | like 6-9 months ago |
| 05:30.03 | timeless_mbp | when the product didn't work at all |
| 05:30.10 | timeless_mbp | but it was still too late to change anything |
| 05:30.38 | timeless_mbp | thinks we need to practice defenestration. a lot |
| 05:31.10 | timeless_mbp | unfortunately, the fremantle ui team is on 3, nowhere near as satisfying as applying that to the harmattan ui team, which is on 7 |
| 05:31.42 | timeless_mbp | anyway. i'm almost don't translating Fremantle into English |
| 05:31.44 | ShadowJK | seriously, how hard would it be to leave an empty space where the week numbers go |
| 05:31.59 | timeless_mbp | shrugs |
| 05:32.12 | timeless_mbp | i think the layout designers would complain about balance or whitespace or something |
| 05:32.19 | johnx | if arguing over how much we hate week numbers is the worst problem we have them I'm pretty happy |
| 05:32.26 | ShadowJK | :) |
| 05:32.30 | timeless_mbp | speaking of trapped whitespace, don't get me started about leading spaces and zeros in times and dates |
| 05:32.45 | *** join/#maemo ibane (n=ibane@esprx01x.nokia.com) |
| 05:32.59 | johnx | but speaking for myself: week numbers on my calendar is a total deal breaker. I'll just get something from HTC running WinMo |
| 05:33.06 | timeless_mbp | needs to figure out if the localization can fix those two |
| 05:33.19 | timeless_mbp | johnx: google calendar |
| 05:33.28 | timeless_mbp | and really, that's pretty much the solution for most of the apps |
| 05:33.30 | timeless_mbp | use the browser |
| 05:33.33 | johnx | was kidding of course |
| 05:33.42 | ShadowJK | Those marketing videos are impressive btw |
| 05:33.43 | timeless_mbp | it can handle google docs, and mail, and reader, and ... |
| 05:33.55 | johnx | already the answer on my n800 for the most part |
| 05:33.56 | timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: fail or actually impressive? |
| 05:33.59 | roope_ | Yes, for Nokia videos at least. |
| 05:34.01 | johnx | reader is a world of awesome when tethered |
| 05:34.17 | ShadowJK | timeless_mbp, I was actually impressed |
| 05:34.29 | timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: /msg me a list of video links i should watch |
| 05:34.35 | timeless_mbp | i was depressed mostly :) |
| 05:34.38 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 05:34.54 | timeless_mbp | the one w/ jussi + quim demoing the n900 was almost ok |
| 05:35.04 | Pavlov | heh |
| 05:35.08 | Pavlov | that one was funny |
| 05:35.09 | timeless_mbp | except that quim kinda stood there for the first 3/4 acting like he didn't care |
| 05:35.19 | timeless_mbp | not exactly the way i'd want to do a marketing video |
| 05:37.17 | ShadowJK | I guess I should clarify. I was impressed in the sense that, well, it's nokia and the infamous nokia marketing, so you kinda expect it to be either utterly dull or utterly abstract/artsy and dull, but these made me excited and I watched it again.. and again. Nice music choice too |
| 05:37.47 | roope_ | Jussi was much responsible for those videos, at the end of the day. Props to him. |
| 05:38.10 | Stskeeps | roope_: congratulations on release :) UI looks sweet |
| 05:38.41 | roope_ | Thanks. It's been a fair amount of work. |
| 05:39.28 | ShadowJK | who pirated the movie btw? :) |
| 05:40.19 | oilinki | any idea of the speed of the device? in the marketing videos everything seems to work well. Would it be the same in actual usage? |
| 05:40.27 | timeless_mbp | oilinki: eh? |
| 05:40.36 | timeless_mbp | provide a testcase / expected results |
| 05:40.40 | Stskeeps | oilinki: there's live videos of device AFAIK |
| 05:40.45 | Stskeeps | the quim and jussi one |
| 05:40.51 | timeless_mbp | roope_ or someone else could do whatever |
| 05:41.30 | ShadowJK | oilinki, actual device: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP5R-5NX1BE |
| 05:41.43 | oilinki | thanks, I'll watch that |
| 05:42.21 | Stskeeps | hm, TMO seems to have died |
| 05:42.47 | roope_ | Of course it takes time to do marketing videos, so it's a careful balance to do a video that tries to illustrate the performance that we hope/plan/expect to have in the final device. While skipping some of the issues like it takes actualyl time to load applications, web sites etc. |
| 05:43.17 | tigert | huomenta roope |
| 05:43.21 | roope_ | Huomenta. |
| 05:43.24 | tigert | fucking public transport |
| 05:43.30 | tigert | bus 8X my ass |
| 05:43.48 | tigert | <- diverted to kamppi :S |
| 05:44.13 | ShadowJK | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au_uRmoy8Fs&fmt=18 <- I'm completely sold on this video :) Not that I'd ever use the device in the manner that it's being used here though.. heh |
| 05:44.45 | Stskeeps | there's a bit scifi over that one |
| 05:44.57 | timeless_mbp | tigert: heh |
| 05:45.32 | roope | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM_q8oAPAKE ok, compared to for instance this video. :) |
| 05:45.36 | kirma | 8X? eh? |
| 05:45.57 | kirma | is that a literal bus line name |
| 05:45.59 | tigert | kirma: as a smiley it describes the service well :) |
| 05:46.08 | kirma | ah :) |
| 05:46.09 | Stskeeps | roope: someone likes to feel up trees |
| 05:46.15 | timeless_mbp | kirma: it's an alternate for a tram line |
| 05:46.26 | timeless_mbp | because they ripped out the tram tracks between where i live and work |
| 05:46.47 | tigert | yea, tram has trackwork near work so they supposedly run the rest of the route with bus |
| 05:46.55 | tigert | ..which never came |
| 05:47.21 | tigert | timeless_mbp: you live totally too close to work ;) |
| 05:49.06 | ShadowJK | roope: Yeah that one is brilliant. First it shows a hand experiencing the varied texture of water and grass and stuff. Then somehow you're supposed to be convinced that fondling a textureless flat surface is an enjoyable way to interact with a device :-) |
| 05:49.24 | kirma | what is that blue led blinking in the corner of N900 on demo video? |
| 05:49.34 | timeless_mbp | tigert: it's still a pain for me to walk to work |
| 05:49.45 | tigert | kirma: a blue led |
| 05:49.54 | kirma | why it's blinking? :) |
| 05:49.55 | suihkulokki | it is the flux capacitor |
| 05:49.59 | tigert | kirma: he has a new msg |
| 05:50.06 | kirma | hum |
| 05:50.09 | tigert | like on n810 |
| 05:50.26 | kirma | maybe I should have audio, but don't care to find headphones for work machine |
| 05:50.29 | tigert | timeless_mbp: use bike :) |
| 05:50.39 | timeless_mbp | oh sure, like that'll help |
| 05:50.50 | timeless_mbp | i have to cross the broken road/tram tracks |
| 05:51.08 | timeless_mbp | besides, i left my bike parked in front of nokia for >2years and it was finally taken away :( |
| 05:51.49 | tigert | that souds like a fair thing to expect to happen ;) |
| 05:52.00 | timeless_mbp | here's the quim video? |
| 05:52.08 | timeless_mbp | tigert: i was shocked at how long it survived |
| 05:52.17 | timeless_mbp | if i had left it in the basement, it wouldn't have lasted a year :) |
| 05:52.18 | ShadowJK | jussi and quim: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP5R-5NX1BE |
| 05:55.17 | ShadowJK | can someone prod someone to prod youtube to have "Maemo 5 user interface" video in HD too? :P |
| 05:56.47 | timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: thanks |
| 06:00.35 | tigert | it was weird to watch the n900 video on the n900 ;) |
| 06:00.53 | timeless_mbp | it was depressing to load the maemo.nokia.com web page on a n900 |
| 06:01.02 | timeless_mbp | it reminded us of the old days when we loaded ovi.com |
| 06:01.13 | ShadowJK | I believe it was depressing to load the maemo.nokia.com page on anything yesterday |
| 06:01.21 | timeless_mbp | i guess that when Ovi finally let go of the Flash devs from their home page, they were available to us :( |
| 06:01.33 | ShadowJK | oh is that why everyhting was 404? :P |
| 06:01.46 | timeless_mbp | i didn't hit 404s |
| 06:01.47 | roope | Hmph. I think maemo.nokia.com loads very well on the n900. |
| 06:02.19 | timeless_mbp | roope: the title areas ended up white text on white rectangular backgrounds |
| 06:02.19 | tigert | yeah |
| 06:02.27 | timeless_mbp | not sure about today |
| 06:02.31 | tigert | timeless_mbp: works perfectly here |
| 06:02.34 | ShadowJK | The videos did yesterday.. not the flash player, but the videos they were trying to play.. of course, the flash player on maemo.nokia.com didn't say it, it just sat there doing nothing :) |
| 06:03.06 | Macer | hm |
| 06:03.11 | Macer | how does the n810 use its usb port? |
| 06:03.19 | Macer | like can i attach devices to it? |
| 06:03.24 | Stskeeps | Macer: it enslaves turtles |
| 06:03.28 | johnx | Macer, yes |
| 06:03.29 | Macer | if i have an adapters? |
| 06:03.32 | Macer | so like |
| 06:03.37 | tigert | oh yeah |
| 06:03.37 | Macer | can i attach a cricket modem? :) |
| 06:03.42 | johnx | but they'll only work if they take <100mA |
| 06:03.44 | vasily_pupkin | O_o |
| 06:03.47 | Macer | hehe |
| 06:03.54 | vasily_pupkin | you can attach everything you want |
| 06:03.55 | tigert | so time to kick marketing ass, the flash video doesnt play indeed |
| 06:03.56 | Macer | and use it as an hspda modem? |
| 06:04.01 | ShadowJK | Macer, there's usbcontrol (and others) that let you switch it to host mode where you can attach devices if you have adapter |
| 06:04.06 | vasily_pupkin | but it doesn't mean, that it would work ) |
| 06:04.13 | timeless_mbp | cries |
| 06:04.24 | Macer | ShadowJK: i was just curious if i could just attach an hspda modem to it |
| 06:04.26 | tigert | though a page advertising n900, n900 users are not exactly the target :) |
| 06:04.27 | Macer | and dial up |
| 06:04.28 | vasily_pupkin | have usb hub on battaries ^_^ |
| 06:04.28 | Macer | :) |
| 06:05.20 | *** join/#maemo Wikier (n=wikier@cm-staticIP-85-152-18-129.telecable.es) |
| 06:05.26 | *** join/#maemo L0cMini9 (n=kki@host-84-222-88-211.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 06:05.28 | ShadowJK | Macer, Diablo isn't setup to do it, but it's doable with powered USB hub as HSDPA modems are insanely power hungry and N810 wouldn't be able to feed enough juice |
| 06:05.30 | suihkulokki | dyi or does someone sell battery powered usb hubs? |
| 06:05.45 | ShadowJK | i've seen one on amazon.com |
| 06:05.49 | Macer | hm. i don't have an adapter for it |
| 06:05.56 | Macer | i'd like to try it out with someone's cricket modem |
| 06:05.56 | Stskeeps | lesbie adapter |
| 06:06.01 | Macer | i have one here that i'm fixing for someone |
| 06:06.07 | Macer | well.. fixing their laptop really |
| 06:06.16 | *** join/#maemo alexga (n=alex@87.223.168.198) |
| 06:06.21 | Macer | the rumors were true |
| 06:06.29 | Macer | some animal porn DOES contain trojans |
| 06:06.34 | ShadowJK | original cable and a cheapo dumb F-F adapter works (with usbcontrol) |
| 06:06.46 | *** join/#maemo elninja (n=r@adsl-76-208-25-51.dsl.sbndin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:07.00 | Macer | heh... that would be interesting to try |
| 06:07.02 | ShadowJK | Then you'd be in for some kernel fun and setting up some scripts to make it actually use it... |
| 06:07.12 | tigert | bah, they should just have uset the youtube embedding for maemo.nokia.com video |
| 06:07.19 | ShadowJK | USB Flash drives work out of the box though :) |
| 06:07.22 | tigert | instead of some other flashplayer |
| 06:07.30 | Macer | heh |
| 06:07.33 | ShadowJK | tigert, NIH? :) |
| 06:07.38 | Macer | well... i just figured it might be a good alternative to an hspda modem |
| 06:07.53 | oilinki | maemo.nokia.com videos doesn't work with linux / firefox 3.5 combination either. |
| 06:08.00 | Stskeeps | worked fine for me earlier |
| 06:08.00 | Macer | if it does work maybe someone can market one that wraps around the n810 and acts as a modem/protection? :) |
| 06:08.04 | Macer | like a cricket n810 case? |
| 06:08.10 | GAN800 | tigert, I find it rather pathetix that maemo.nokia.com is 1024px minimum. |
| 06:08.17 | Macer | (made in china) |
| 06:08.23 | Stskeeps | ok, it doesn't anymore |
| 06:08.30 | GAN800 | s/ix/ic/ |
| 06:10.23 | Macer | hm. nm-applet in fluxbox reboots mer when trying to adhoc tether |
| 06:10.28 | Macer | it was weird |
| 06:10.41 | tigert | GAN800: yeah - though I guess most people are viewing it on a laptop or desktop computer anyway |
| 06:11.08 | tigert | GAN800: web designers just have way too large monitors nowadays |
| 06:11.09 | *** join/#maemo chx (n=chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view) |
| 06:11.15 | GAN800 | tigert, that's going to change when it's no longer the marketing site but the user site. |
| 06:11.47 | ShadowJK | Alot of the comments on (the various copies of) the videos seem positive... "go and hide iPhone", "This phone is Nokia's resurrection", "One of the best adds I've ever seen!" |
| 06:11.54 | GAN800 | How embarassing will it be to have horizontal scrollbars on a website launched off the device desktop out-of-the-box? |
| 06:11.57 | tigert | GAN800: maemo.org works fine on the tablets |
| 06:11.58 | ShadowJK | it's extraordinary that the comments are ontopic |
| 06:11.59 | oilinki | tigert: some of the web designer team members should be forced to use linux / mac for work. |
| 06:12.18 | tigert | oilinki: most designers *use* macs already |
| 06:12.18 | timeless_mbp | tigert: hey |
| 06:12.21 | GAN800 | tigert, yeah, because that's a usecase we targetted. |
| 06:12.27 | timeless_mbp | i remember when we were about to launch the microb garage site |
| 06:12.33 | timeless_mbp | we had designed it for gecko |
| 06:12.37 | timeless_mbp | and forgot to test opera |
| 06:12.43 | timeless_mbp | which was the browser you'd need to use to get microb |
| 06:12.45 | GAN800 | Unfortunately it seems m.n.c wasn't designed by users. |
| 06:12.49 | timeless_mbp | we kinda fixed that before we launched |
| 06:12.51 | GAN800 | Unlike maemo.org |
| 06:13.09 | tigert | oilinki: the 30 inch cinema displays on macs do not help in that though |
| 06:13.43 | oilinki | tigert: just need to stop paying so much money for designers.. so they have to use linux and small monitors ;) |
| 06:13.49 | timeless_mbp | heh |
| 06:13.54 | timeless_mbp | likes that idea |
| 06:14.01 | GAN800 | I really hope we can get m.n.c fixed before October. |
| 06:14.18 | tigert | GAN800: facebook doesnt fit on 800px either |
| 06:14.26 | GAN800 | oilinki, then you get tables. |
| 06:14.29 | tigert | quite a few sites are wider nowadays |
| 06:14.45 | GAN800 | tigert, yeah, but we don't have control over that. |
| 06:14.48 | tigert | GAN800: but I have no problem viewing the maemo.nokia.com or facebook on the tablet really |
| 06:14.58 | GAN800 | We can at least fix the things we can fix. |
| 06:15.30 | timeless_mbp | tigert: the n900's ability to zoom made the m.n.c. site not bad |
| 06:15.38 | timeless_mbp | but iirc it wasn't enjoyable on an n810 |
| 06:15.39 | tigert | exactly |
| 06:15.55 | GAN800 | Doesn't justify it. |
| 06:15.58 | timeless_mbp | the layout in that regard was nice |
| 06:16.06 | timeless_mbp | you can zoom to a column and read down |
| 06:16.15 | timeless_mbp | of course, you kept running into nearly identical cells |
| 06:16.23 | timeless_mbp | and got frustrated by repeated grammatical errors |
| 06:16.40 | timeless_mbp | we had a morning reading yesterday for our group |
| 06:16.46 | timeless_mbp | stops required about every 1-2 sentences |
| 06:17.57 | tigert | GAN800: why are we always talking about this? :) |
| 06:18.10 | Macer | watching conspiracy |
| 06:18.14 | GAN800 | Are we? |
| 06:18.22 | Macer | amazing how nuts ze germans were |
| 06:19.12 | GAN800 | tigert, I'll refrain from directing those complaints your direction in the future, then. |
| 06:19.15 | *** join/#maemo xdx (n=any@ppp91-77-164-204.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) |
| 06:19.37 | *** join/#maemo veiz (n=veiz@222.209.221.137) |
| 06:19.41 | tigert | GAN800: the points are valid yeah |
| 06:19.57 | *** join/#maemo sphenxes (n=sphenxes@85-127-220-104.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 06:19.57 | GAN800 | will bug Jussi and Quim instead. |
| 06:19.59 | tigert | but I care more that maemo.org works fine with tablets |
| 06:20.19 | roope | Well, maemo.nokia.com isn't ... if you already got the device, then. |
| 06:20.30 | tigert | and quim & jussi are the right ones to bug about this |
| 06:20.36 | ShadowJK | vaguely recalls finding it funny his nokia phone not being able to read an article on forum.nokia about making websites accessible to mobile phones |
| 06:21.35 | johnx | do as we say, not as we do :) |
| 06:21.47 | ShadowJK | :) |
| 06:23.16 | GAN800 | roope, Maemo Select is for owners. |
| 06:23.27 | Macer | ShadowJK: haha |
| 06:23.31 | Macer | irony at its best |
| 06:23.46 | roope | Well. It works nicely. |
| 06:23.58 | tigert | yeah. no problem viewing that on n900 at all |
| 06:24.07 | tigert | except for that promovideo flash issue |
| 06:24.11 | tigert | need to poke jussi about that |
| 06:24.43 | Macer | n900 looks beautiful |
| 06:24.46 | ShadowJK | does he have a HD source for it? I noticed one of the marketing videos are available as HD on youtube, and the other only as HQ |
| 06:24.46 | Macer | so is it an actual phone? |
| 06:25.04 | roope | Now we can say it: Yes, it's an actual phone. :) |
| 06:25.14 | timeless_mbp | heh, yeah |
| 06:25.19 | timeless_mbp | it's a phone |
| 06:25.33 | timeless_mbp | i called my sister somewhere in lapland with it yesterday evening |
| 06:25.36 | roope | "Noo... We're Nokia. Why would Nokia do phones?" ;) |
| 06:25.53 | ShadowJK | (then wait for people to whine and say they don't want a phone, then reply saying it works without sim card too) |
| 06:25.57 | ShadowJK | I assume it does ;) |
| 06:26.03 | tigert | phones are boring anyway |
| 06:26.04 | timeless_mbp | it does |
| 06:26.08 | tigert | it does all this other shit |
| 06:26.08 | timeless_mbp | unlike s60 |
| 06:26.10 | Macer | roope: haha |
| 06:26.17 | johnx | wonder if it can be tethered :) |
| 06:26.20 | timeless_mbp | which insists on not letting you go into "online" or "silent" modes w/o a sim |
| 06:26.32 | GAN800 | roope, can you comment on the phone orientation activation? Does it come up whenever it's in portrait or only from desktop? |
| 06:26.33 | Macer | johnx: haha |
| 06:26.33 | timeless_mbp | grumbles about s60's "multimedia computers" |
| 06:26.34 | johnx | I also wonder if it will work with my cheap-o $10/month t-zones data plan |
| 06:26.42 | ShadowJK | oh I thought you could go wlan without sim |
| 06:26.47 | timeless_mbp | GAN800: only from desktop like things |
| 06:26.51 | timeless_mbp | and only if you don't disable it |
| 06:26.55 | timeless_mbp | because you can disable it |
| 06:26.56 | Macer | johnx: i wonder if it will work with tmobile at all |
| 06:27.09 | timeless_mbp | Macer: as a network, it'll work w/ tmobile |
| 06:27.12 | Macer | i searched far and wide for a tmobile nokia phone that didn't suck |
| 06:27.14 | tigert | ShadowJK: you can of course |
| 06:27.15 | Macer | timeless_mbp: 3G? |
| 06:27.16 | johnx | Macer, you need to read the specs |
| 06:27.18 | timeless_mbp | yes |
| 06:27.22 | Macer | wow |
| 06:27.23 | GAN800 | timeless_mbp, thanks, I can quell some insane people on tmo. |
| 06:27.26 | Macer | go nokia :) |
| 06:27.39 | timeless_mbp | that isn't the same as saying you can find it from them |
| 06:27.42 | Macer | i went on their online chat to their market support |
| 06:27.44 | timeless_mbp | just that technically it would |
| 06:27.47 | Macer | and the fucker was throwing att promotions at me |
| 06:27.48 | Macer | hahaha |
| 06:27.49 | Macer | wtf?? |
| 06:27.59 | Macer | "well. that would be a great reason to change!" |
| 06:28.00 | GAN800 | really, really needs AT&T 3G. |
| 06:28.11 | timeless_mbp | GAN800: yeah well |
| 06:28.14 | Macer | GAN800: it sucks in chicago something awful |
| 06:28.19 | qwerty12_N810 | Americans really, really need non-shit networks |
| 06:28.21 | Macer | it is the worst you can get here :) |
| 06:28.23 | timeless_mbp | i'd settle for at&t letting me call people in the usa when i'm on the east coast |
| 06:28.28 | Macer | tmobile is great tho |
| 06:28.28 | GAN800 | is going to be scewed. |
| 06:28.33 | timeless_mbp | grumbles about incompetent network operations people |
| 06:28.47 | timeless_mbp | Macer: tmobile coverage is typically bad ime |
| 06:28.51 | timeless_mbp | i had a choice: |
| 06:28.55 | GAN800 | Can't even get T-Mobile 3G here. |
| 06:28.55 | johnx | qwerty12_N810, t-mo is a good example, as long as you lie to them through your teeth :) |
| 06:28.57 | timeless_mbp | use tmobile and call people from outside |
| 06:29.12 | Macer | timeless_mbp: well. i hardly use my phone to call people ;) |
| 06:29.16 | johnx | depends on where you are of course |
| 06:29.17 | GAN800 | I'm going to have to tether to a data-only plan on my goddamn 5800. |
| 06:29.18 | timeless_mbp | use at&t, call people in any other country from anywhere on the east coast and use internet (but no calling Americans) |
| 06:29.20 | Macer | honestly most of the time i just use it as a modem |
| 06:29.28 | qwerty12_N810 | johnx: heh.. t-mobile isn't bad here, actually. Guess it shows what your phone market is like :p |
| 06:29.29 | GAN800 | It's always something with Nokia. |
| 06:29.37 | Macer | timeless_mbp: well. att here drops like crazy |
| 06:29.42 | Macer | data and voice |
| 06:29.44 | *** join/#maemo chelli (n=chelli@p54B85B9F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:29.45 | timeless_mbp | Macer: where's here? |
| 06:29.47 | Macer | even when not mobile ;) |
| 06:29.50 | Macer | timeless_mbp: chicago |
| 06:29.53 | timeless_mbp | ah |
| 06:29.56 | tigert | GAN800: its something with your lovely phone operator really :S |
| 06:30.06 | timeless_mbp | i've been through chicago, w/ cingular |
| 06:30.10 | timeless_mbp | but that was a while ago |
| 06:30.17 | johnx | qwerty12_N810, $10/mo for unlimited data as long as you tell them it's not for a smart phone :) |
| 06:30.18 | timeless_mbp | and i wasn't heavily using my phone then |
| 06:30.25 | tigert | what it sounds to me, is that the US phone operator landscape is ultimate piss-on-customers-eye |
| 06:30.28 | Macer | yeah.. cingular/att sucks |
| 06:30.30 | GAN800 | tigert, can't change that, but Nokia could ship a modem that's not going to screw me over. |
| 06:30.33 | tigert | from what I hear from my american friends |
| 06:30.43 | johnx | mention "smart phone" and "ah! well you need to pay $30+/mo" |
| 06:30.47 | Macer | mergers ruin things |
| 06:30.48 | qwerty12_N810 | johnx: heh |
| 06:30.52 | GAN800 | What good is a stupid phone tablet without 3G? |
| 06:30.54 | tigert | GAN800: its your operator that says you need plan XYZ to do "foo" |
| 06:30.59 | Macer | att bought cingular and shut down 1892372197 towers |
| 06:31.23 | GAN800 | tigert, plan isn't an issue. |
| 06:31.37 | GAN800 | Frequency support is. |
| 06:31.42 | Macer | anyways. i am very happy that it supports tmob 3G |
| 06:32.08 | GAN800 | I can use my $15/mo data plan just fine. |
| 06:32.23 | tigert | http://gizmodo.com/5346996/gscreens-dual+screen-spacebook-coming-soonish |
| 06:32.23 | tigert | wow :D |
| 06:32.29 | tigert | now that is crazy looking thing |
| 06:32.34 | GAN800 | I just need a modem that supports AT&T 3G frequencies. |
| 06:32.49 | GAN800 | is so goddamn tired of Nokia. |
| 06:33.04 | Macer | GAN800: doesn't most nokia hardware do it? :) |
| 06:33.04 | Macer | haha |
| 06:33.16 | Macer | or you mean an actual modem? |
| 06:33.19 | Macer | and nothing more? |
| 06:33.27 | GAN800 | Apparently not the only piece of hardware that matters. |
| 06:33.29 | johnx | GAN800, pandora+usb data modem |
| 06:33.35 | johnx | ducks |
| 06:33.39 | Macer | hahhahaha |
| 06:33.50 | Macer | "the only piece of hardware that matters |
| 06:33.51 | Macer | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:33.52 | GAN800 | No, I mean a goddamn phone that supports AT&T 3G. |
| 06:34.02 | GAN800 | N900. |
| 06:34.07 | Macer | no kidding |
| 06:34.20 | Macer | no att 3G support on n900? |
| 06:34.22 | Macer | :) awesome |
| 06:34.29 | Macer | hopes this begins the fall of att |
| 06:34.31 | Macer | like enron |
| 06:34.48 | qwerty12_N810 | Tell AT&T to sharpen their act then. I can use 3G on any of the networks we have here. |
| 06:34.55 | johnx | it just kills me that we have essentially 4 frequency incompatible carriers |
| 06:34.58 | GAN800 | T-Mobile has zero coverage here. |
| 06:34.58 | johnx | yay "open market" |
| 06:35.17 | Macer | GAN800: just the opposite here ;) |
| 06:35.29 | Macer | is it really that hard to make a radio that can support all the freqs? |
| 06:35.29 | GAN800 | Plus the fact that I'm stuck on a plan with two iPhones. |
| 06:35.37 | Macer | GAN800: teh price you pay |
| 06:35.52 | GAN800 | Macers, apparently, or Nokia wouldn't be screwing me over again. |
| 06:36.14 | GAN800 | Macer, it's that or $50 more a month. |
| 06:36.22 | johnx | qwerty12_N810, it was a question of gov't regulation, ie the lack of any, which led to carriers using freq as a "lock in" |
| 06:36.33 | GAN800 | For a T-Mobile plan that has no 3G coverage here. |
| 06:36.33 | Macer | GAN800: yeah. they have you on their list of "people to screw" |
| 06:36.34 | Macer | haha |
| 06:36.43 | GAN800 | sighs. |
| 06:36.49 | Macer | just pay the 50 more a month you cheap bastard :) |
| 06:36.58 | GAN800 | So tired of this platform. |
| 06:37.12 | GAN800 | Macer, there's no 3G, so it doesn't help. |
| 06:37.16 | Macer | oh |
| 06:37.19 | Macer | then nm |
| 06:37.33 | GAN800 | T-Mobile coverage here is practically analog-only. |
| 06:37.40 | johnx | GAN800, move :) |
| 06:37.44 | qwerty12_N810 | johnx: sounds typical :) |
| 06:37.45 | Macer | haha |
| 06:37.51 | chx | Can anyone confirm that Rogers/Fido in the Great White North uses 2100MHz for HSDPA? |
| 06:37.51 | Macer | GAN800: where do you livce? |
| 06:37.52 | GAN800 | johnx, :rolleyes: |
| 06:37.53 | Macer | live? |
| 06:37.57 | GAN800 | Florida. |
| 06:38.03 | Macer | oh |
| 06:38.09 | Macer | they had 3G coverage all over hte place there |
| 06:38.11 | qwerty12_N810 | Oh, in that case, johnx is right: move. |
| 06:38.15 | Macer | but their towers were knocked down by hurricanes |
| 06:38.31 | johnx | chx, keep in mind there are more than one "2100MHz" 3G frequencies, IIRC |
| 06:38.42 | GAN800 | qwerty12, ever been here? |
| 06:39.05 | chx | johnx: well. I jsut want to use the N900 w/ my Fido 6G/$30 data plan :) |
| 06:39.09 | qwerty12_N810 | GAN800: No. Although I hear the beaches are nice :) |
| 06:39.30 | GAN800 | Some of the best in the world. |
| 06:39.49 | chx | what shocks me is that they shrunk the screen by a centimetre and kept the resolution |
| 06:39.52 | chx | is that a new PPI record? |
| 06:40.06 | GAN800 | It's alsl not filled with socialists like CA. |
| 06:40.09 | chx | checks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_displays_by_pixel_density |
| 06:40.13 | johnx | laughs about the thought of Seattle beaches, probably about the same as the beaches closest to qwerty12_N810 :) |
| 06:40.14 | GAN800 | No. |
| 06:40.24 | GAN800 | sighs. |
| 06:40.34 | chx | no. the X1 is still higher w/ 3.0 @ 800x480 |
| 06:40.44 | GAN800 | Nokia's killing all of my enthusiam. |
| 06:40.53 | GAN800 | High-five, Nokia. |
| 06:41.01 | tigert | lives in a socialist country with great 3.5G coverage and unlimited data for 20 euros per month |
| 06:41.18 | Myrtti | ⥠|
| 06:41.23 | GAN800 | tigert, you also pay taxes like crazy. |
| 06:41.27 | tigert | thinks GAN800 is blaming the wrong tree here really |
| 06:41.35 | tigert | GAN800: sure, but a lot less insurance |
| 06:41.41 | Macer | GAN800: just use edge |
| 06:41.42 | Myrtti | GAN800: and get virtually free healthcare with it |
| 06:41.42 | Macer | :) |
| 06:41.45 | tigert | I bet it pretty much evens out in the end |
| 06:41.47 | Myrtti | next question |
| 06:41.48 | Macer | and wifi |
| 06:41.51 | GAN800 | Fixing US carriers is hard. |
| 06:41.55 | Macer | doesn't fl have wifi like.. EVERYWHERE? |
| 06:42.04 | GAN800 | Adding two goddamn frequencies to a phone is easy. |
| 06:42.17 | tigert | GAN800: blame your operators who choose the handsets they sell to you |
| 06:42.17 | johnx | GAN800, can't be any harder than fixing dogs and cats :D |
| 06:42.22 | tigert | not the manufacturers really |
| 06:42.38 | GAN800 | Myrtti, there's no such thing as a free lunch. |
| 06:43.08 | tigert | GAN800: there isnt, thats why I said it pretty much evens out in the end |
| 06:43.10 | adeus | mushrooms from the forrest |
| 06:43.11 | johnx | nope, just a previously paid for lunch :) |
| 06:43.14 | *** join/#maemo veiz (n=veiz@222.209.221.137) |
| 06:43.14 | GAN800 | tigert, it doesn't matter, I'm about burnt out on Maemo. |
| 06:43.22 | tigert | the experience seems much different though from what I hear from americans compared to europe |
| 06:43.29 | Myrtti | GAN800: buy an iphone and be merry ;-) |
| 06:43.49 | GAN800 | will go live in the hills and hunt deer. |
| 06:44.09 | tigert | GAN800: I dont think florida has much hills? :) |
| 06:44.15 | GAN800 | johnx, with a massive, inefficient leach eating most of it. |
| 06:44.22 | johnx | if you're hunting dear, you'll be wanting something sharp for that, like a palm pre :) |
| 06:44.28 | GAN800 | tigert, plenty of deer, though. |
| 06:44.29 | johnx | GAN800, just like those damn socialist fire departments |
| 06:44.59 | GAN800 | sleeps. |
| 06:45.24 | adeus | the us used to have private fire stations |
| 06:45.29 | tigert | GAN800: but hey, all I know from US is few years of work visits and watching Sicko, and life in north Europe |
| 06:45.35 | tigert | so take my talk with a grain of salt ;) |
| 06:45.40 | johnx | 'night GAN800. :) |
| 06:45.45 | tigert | sleep well :) |
| 06:46.06 | GAN800 | tigert, getting info from Moore documentaries is about the worst place to go. |
| 06:46.32 | tigert | no doubt about that :) |
| 06:46.40 | johnx | ...followed by lobbyists, political commercials and IRC :) |
| 06:46.45 | tigert | hence the disclaimer ;D |
| 06:47.22 | tigert | GAN800: but socialism is not that bad really |
| 06:47.52 | tigert | sure there are issues everywhere no matter what system you use |
| 06:48.06 | tigert | but I cannot complain that much on how things are in finland at least |
| 06:48.36 | lpotter | I wish Nokia was socialist and give me a free n900 |
| 06:48.40 | tigert | :D |
| 06:49.00 | tigert | oh well, time to raise shareholder value |
| 06:49.05 | tigert | :P |
| 06:49.22 | lpotter | well, I try everyday at work :) |
| 06:50.08 | johnx | huh, thinking about phone carrier subsidized handsets as a form of socialism is a fun thought experiment |
| 06:50.49 | adeus | and you may have one |
| 06:51.00 | adeus | in the form of the carrier infrastructure |
| 06:51.13 | tigert | hopes the n900 had a flash sync port ;) |
| 06:51.18 | tigert | that would be fun |
| 06:52.26 | kirma | "flash sync" ? |
| 06:52.33 | tigert | <- photogeek |
| 06:52.51 | *** join/#maemo Meiz_n810 (n=Meizirkk@padedu-62-165-142-173.phnet.fi) |
| 06:54.10 | johnx | ah, a "hot shoe" if my terminology is correct? but can't you make a rig to sync the flash even based on shutter sound? |
| 06:54.30 | tigert | well, the shutter sound is played via gstreamer |
| 06:54.51 | tigert | even while it is pretty nicely in sync, it is not still good enough to match flash duration really |
| 06:55.01 | tigert | which is like really short |
| 06:55.07 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@91-114-236-171.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 06:55.09 | suihkulokki | optical flash sync |
| 06:55.30 | tigert | and optical slaves dont work with the led flash |
| 06:55.33 | tigert | sadly |
| 06:55.43 | suihkulokki | oh |
| 06:56.04 | tigert | I tried wtih my n95 once at the studio |
| 06:58.08 | *** join/#maemo nab (n=nab@67-23-28-174.slicehost.net) |
| 06:59.03 | timeless_mbp | tigert: what is butter called here? |
| 06:59.06 | timeless_mbp | a guest wants to buy some |
| 06:59.16 | timeless_mbp | (not margerine) |
| 06:59.28 | tigert | in finnish? |
| 06:59.30 | suihkulokki | voi |
| 06:59.31 | tigert | "voi" |
| 06:59.58 | timeless_mbp | which brands? :) |
| 07:00.04 | tigert | http://www.arlaingman.fi/img/skins/ai/tuoteryhma_voit.jpg |
| 07:00.19 | tigert | http://www.valio.fi/images/tuotetiedot/tuoteryhma/ktr253.jpg |
| 07:00.21 | tigert | ;) |
| 07:00.31 | tigert | (#maemo - the channel of all things under the sun :)) |
| 07:00.34 | ShadowJK | "ingmariini" name makes me suspicious |
| 07:00.41 | tigert | thats not butter |
| 07:00.43 | tigert | that margarin |
| 07:00.54 | tigert | but the "voi" is butter |
| 07:01.11 | oilinki | and when you are sad, you can say 'voi voi' |
| 07:01.26 | tigert | smör smör, in swedish |
| 07:01.35 | tigert | julsexan kommeri tillbaka |
| 07:01.45 | tigert | s/kommeri/kommer/ |
| 07:01.47 | oilinki | har du redan redan redan |
| 07:02.41 | ShadowJK | bilingual translation humour :-) |
| 07:03.14 | Myrtti | toss in English and the soup is cooked |
| 07:03.18 | timeless_mbp | frowns |
| 07:03.26 | timeless_mbp | so, my guests want creamed spinach |
| 07:03.30 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@cpc3-oldh7-0-0-cust590.manc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 07:03.37 | timeless_mbp | and they want to be sure there isn't any animal shortening in the cream |
| 07:03.47 | timeless_mbp | is that a concern? |
| 07:03.56 | tigert | shortening? wazzat? |
| 07:04.00 | ShadowJK | What's animal shortening? |
| 07:04.16 | timeless_mbp | the opposite of vegetable shortening :( |
| 07:04.27 | tigert | you mean animal fat? |
| 07:04.34 | oilinki | I just wonder how spanish speaking people come along in thailand. 'Loco' maens in thai 'and' .. and in spanish it's 'crazy' :) |
| 07:04.38 | ShadowJK | so like, what's shortening then |
| 07:04.41 | timeless_mbp | "lard" perhaps |
| 07:04.48 | timeless_mbp | tigert: yes |
| 07:05.04 | maswan | tigert: shortening is a horrible .us invention which is kind of like margarine, except without trying to make it similar to butter. quite similar to machine grease. hi btw. :) |
| 07:05.06 | timeless_mbp | but as a cooking product its called shortening |
| 07:05.22 | timeless_mbp | s/its/it's/ |
| 07:05.52 | tigert | maswan! :) |
| 07:06.14 | timeless_mbp | right, so... is it a concern? |
| 07:06.17 | ShadowJK | I have a feeling trying to source ingredients for your spinach in finland is like trying to get sour milk for finnish recipies in the US ;-) |
| 07:06.22 | tigert | only if you are concerned ;) |
| 07:06.48 | tigert | I dunno, there are vegetable based "ruokakerma" cream-like products, but I dont think they put lard in cream here |
| 07:06.48 | timeless_mbp | ... |
| 07:06.51 | maswan | ShadowJK: buttermilk is kind of similar, except not as sour. you can get by on that though, or yoghurt, depending on which recipe it is. |
| 07:06.55 | tigert | check the package, I guess it says whats in it |
| 07:07.00 | tigert | if it has, it should mention it |
| 07:07.04 | timeless_mbp | tigert: in Finnish and Swedish |
| 07:07.07 | timeless_mbp | and in EU E numbers |
| 07:07.13 | maswan | has spent a little time of cooking swedish in .us :) |
| 07:07.14 | *** join/#maemo JamieBennett (n=JamieBen@5ac88494.bb.sky.com) |
| 07:07.14 | timeless_mbp | all three of which are incomprehensible to the party |
| 07:07.17 | tigert | timeless_mbp: so ask some cute girl in the store? |
| 07:07.45 | timeless_mbp | i'm not doing the shopping, my sister and her friends are |
| 07:07.53 | ShadowJK | timeless, is whether it's animal or vegetable based cram a concern because your guest is a vegetarian? |
| 07:08.05 | tigert | timeless_mbp: so butter is ok as it is not part of the animal, but rather a product created by the animal? |
| 07:08.08 | maswan | tigert: they can ask some cute guy in the store then? |
| 07:08.22 | maswan | timeless_mbp: ehm. ^^ |
| 07:09.14 | ShadowJK | Oh, cream made entirely from dairy would be fine too? |
| 07:09.20 | maswan | timeless_mbp: I cook for a (lacto-,ovo-,) vegetarian gf, and we've never come accross a margarine that has lard in it in swedish stores. Cheese on the other hand is hard to find, since most of them have rennet. |
| 07:10.17 | lpotter | finds non rennet cheese in Australia |
| 07:11.05 | maswan | There is some, luckily Valio is sold here, which is better than most swedish dairies in making non rennet cheese. |
| 07:11.46 | timeless_mbp | maswan: does valio have parmesan ? :) |
| 07:12.04 | timeless_mbp | maswan: what about creamed spinach? :) |
| 07:12.21 | tigert | timeless_mbp: parmesan is a protected name afaik, so it can only be italian? |
| 07:12.25 | timeless_mbp | (this is definitely a better use of #maemo) |
| 07:12.26 | ShadowJK | timeless_mbp, you probably need to steal^Wborrow a N900 from nokia and give it to your chef for trying his luck with translate.google.com ;-) |
| 07:12.28 | maswan | timeless_mbp: Dunno, have never checked. Edam and Emmentaler are the ones we get here rennet free. And coop's grated mozarella for pizza. |
| 07:12.31 | tigert | but valio has Forte which is similar |
| 07:12.44 | timeless_mbp | tigert: ok |
| 07:12.58 | maswan | timeless_mbp: Haven't really checked that recently... |
| 07:15.04 | maswan | timeless_mbp: the sneaky part to keep an eye out for as a vegetarian seems to be e120 though, carmine. Anything red or yellow might have that in it... |
| 07:15.46 | *** join/#maemo Khertan_n810 (i=507da5b5@gateway/web/freenode/x-gwcrwdtviutvrdrj) |
| 07:16.07 | Khertan_n810 | Hi all ! |
| 07:16.18 | aquatix | morning |
| 07:16.38 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=Miranda@gwh-1-22-val21.ln.rinet.ru) |
| 07:16.41 | Khertan_n810 | The other datetime picker try : http://khertan.net/wp-content/uploads/Vidéo007.3gp |
| 07:16.41 | Khertan_n810 | :) |
| 07:16.44 | aol_ | timeless: generally, all the stuff here that named as some basic ingredient, is just that without any "addition"... because if you modify the product the law says you need to call it something else |
| 07:17.08 | *** join/#maemo kristian_ (n=chatzill@h54n1c1o1097.bredband.skanova.com) |
| 07:17.20 | tigert | yeah, "voimariini" had to be renamed to "oivariini" because of that |
| 07:17.21 | timeless_mbp | aol_: but would "creamed spinach" count? |
| 07:17.24 | tigert | since it was not butter |
| 07:17.27 | tigert | but margarin |
| 07:17.29 | timeless_mbp | the problem is mixing spinach and cream |
| 07:17.47 | Khertan_n810 | someone know if there is any public api for telphony, sms on Maemo5 |
| 07:17.48 | Khertan_n810 | ? |
| 07:17.55 | aol_ | timeless_mbp: well creamed spinach is not really a basic ingredient. cream and spinach is :) |
| 07:18.01 | *** join/#maemo AltC (n=AltC@84.92.70.37) |
| 07:18.04 | ShadowJK | http://www.arlaingman.fi/fi/tuotteet/?pid=59&pcsid=11&p=4 "Ingredients: Cream" :) |
| 07:18.11 | timeless_mbp | aol_, fwiw: is => are |
| 07:18.28 | aol_ | I suck in English |
| 07:18.34 | timeless_mbp | in => at |
| 07:18.40 | aol_ | exactly |
| 07:18.42 | Khertan_n810 | just put some banana in freezer for 4 hour |
| 07:19.08 | Khertan_n810 | and then mix it with a blender |
| 07:19.19 | Khertan_n810 | you ll get the best ice cream |
| 07:19.45 | timeless_mbp | aol_: i appreciate that you're trying |
| 07:19.56 | timeless_mbp | and hope that you're striving to improve |
| 07:20.03 | ShadowJK | uh, this other cream lists cellulose as ingredient |
| 07:20.10 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@91.114.236.171) |
| 07:20.34 | chx | Hm |
| 07:20.35 | chx | Banana... not my fav. |
| 07:20.35 | aol_ | timeless_mbp: Actually I should know English well enough not to make such mistakes, but I'm just being lazy :( |
| 07:20.35 | Stskeeps | just like sausages, you don't want to know what is in cream |
| 07:20.35 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 07:20.40 | Stskeeps | or how it's made |
| 07:20.41 | chx | Try, however, an avocado milkshake |
| 07:20.51 | chx | it's fabulous! and very healthy |
| 07:21.01 | chx | just close your eyes when drinking because drinking something green is eek! |
| 07:21.59 | timeless_mbp | Khertan_n810: so fwiw |
| 07:22.05 | aol_ | timeless_mbp: so what is the problem with mixing cream and spinach? |
| 07:22.06 | timeless_mbp | your lines should be thicker |
| 07:22.14 | timeless_mbp | aol_: the problem isn't precisely with mixing |
| 07:22.17 | ShadowJK | Stskeeps, cream is made by attaching things that look like giant penis pumps to long slender cylindrical bodyparts and then separating the thick stuff that comes out from the more fluid stuff |
| 07:22.20 | timeless_mbp | it's whatever strange stuff might be in the cream |
| 07:22.33 | *** join/#maemo homeasvs_ (n=thomas@175.233-246-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 07:22.34 | timeless_mbp | i don't really have any idea what might be in the cream |
| 07:23.02 | ShadowJK | Cream as in very fat milk? |
| 07:23.12 | timeless_mbp | it /should be/ |
| 07:23.18 | aol_ | timeless_mbp: ok. there is nothing else in finnish cream than cream, if you buy something that says only Kerma |
| 07:23.22 | timeless_mbp | but i don't really trust strange european comapnies |
| 07:23.34 | timeless_mbp | aol_: yeah, thanks |
| 07:23.36 | aol_ | timeless_mbp: they don't add any pig's fat in it, it's illegal |
| 07:23.58 | timeless_mbp | anyway, the group has gone food hunting |
| 07:24.10 | timeless_mbp | and i'm going to walk along the shredded tram path to work, i guess |
| 07:24.32 | aol_ | yeah I'll jump on my motorbike as well, off to work |
| 07:24.43 | timeless_mbp | someone tell khertan when he returns to thicken the lines of his clock |
| 07:25.10 | timeless_mbp | fwiw, the one nokia has is prettier |
| 07:25.12 | kristian_ | would this be the right place to ask questions about the n900? |
| 07:25.14 | timeless_mbp | albeit just as annoying |
| 07:25.16 | *** join/#maemo Khertan_wantan90 (i=507da5b5@gateway/web/freenode/x-hnqeeilzvclzqbkd) |
| 07:25.25 | Stskeeps | kristian_: you can give it a try :) |
| 07:25.34 | timeless_mbp | probably not a bad place |
| 07:25.36 | Khertan_wantan90 | re |
| 07:25.38 | timeless_mbp | just don't ask about dates |
| 07:25.39 | ShadowJK | timeless, right. Look for a package that looks like a short milk container of 2dl. I'm assuming you know what the "normal" milk containers look like... except, instead of light blue, blue with yellow, blue, and red to denote different fat milks, the cream container is a yellowish colour |
| 07:25.49 | timeless_mbp | khertan: thicken the lines of your clock |
| 07:25.54 | johnx | kristian_, there's probably not a *better* place. let's put it that way :) |
| 07:25.57 | ShadowJK | and that's pasteurized dairy cream |
| 07:26.10 | timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: i showed the picture you gave earlier |
| 07:26.13 | kristian_ | heh |
| 07:26.18 | timeless_mbp | thanks |
| 07:26.30 | timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: note, we're all americans here, so saying 2dl is pointless :) |
| 07:26.41 | timeless_mbp | saying "1 school lunch milk carton" otoh |
| 07:26.53 | kristian_ | okay, my no1 concern is japanese support... will i be able to type in japanese across applications? |
| 07:27.18 | timeless_mbp | kristian_: afaik japan wasn't listed as a market |
| 07:27.23 | kristian_ | crap |
| 07:27.27 | chx | kristian_: sure , but you need the N900J version which has 1234567890 keys to enter all the symbols. |
| 07:27.31 | timeless_mbp | i don't know if china was, someone can indicate if it was |
| 07:27.43 | Khertan_wantan90 | what is the list of 'market' ? |
| 07:27.50 | timeless_mbp | shrugs |
| 07:27.53 | Stskeeps | kristian_: there was previously work in making japanese input methods |
| 07:27.53 | timeless_mbp | technically we've had a very good IME since the 770 |
| 07:27.55 | Stskeeps | in the community |
| 07:27.57 | timeless_mbp | but we never delivered it |
| 07:28.05 | johnx | kristian_, I'd bet that it will be supported by some type of input plugin sometime after launch, but I wouldn't buy just expecting it to work |
| 07:28.24 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (n=magao@157.88.94.233) |
| 07:28.26 | kristian_ | but there is a japanese model then? |
| 07:28.29 | timeless_mbp | no |
| 07:28.33 | timeless_mbp | they're joking |
| 07:28.34 | Khertan_wantan90 | just a question how many charactere did you use on japanese keyboard ? |
| 07:28.36 | timeless_mbp | or pulling your leg |
| 07:28.55 | timeless_mbp | Khertan_wantan90: look up katakana |
| 07:29.10 | timeless_mbp | (and hiragana) |
| 07:29.11 | qwerty12_N810 | Language support on http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications/ sums up what it'll support out of the box |
| 07:29.18 | johnx | Khertan_wantan90, you can get away with inputing japanese with a qwerty layout |
| 07:29.24 | kristian_ | hmm. then it's a no-go then. im going to japan in a month and i need a phone with good language support across applications and preferably skype support too.. |
| 07:29.30 | timeless_mbp | note that language support doesn't imply markets |
| 07:29.32 | *** join/#maemo awilkins (n=adwi2@pdpc/supporter/active/awilkins) |
| 07:29.43 | timeless_mbp | we've had support for Brazilian Portuguese and have never sold there |
| 07:29.53 | *** join/#maemo lbt (n=david@78.32.229.233) |
| 07:30.11 | Stskeeps | kristian_: input methods or characters? |
| 07:30.13 | qwerty12_N810 | The question being asked is not one of where it will be sold though :) |
| 07:30.16 | gomiam | hi everyone... while you are talking about N900... ¿are there binary blobs in the kernel that make it difficult to keep supporting it when Nokia stops putting out versions of Maemo for it? |
| 07:30.18 | johnx | kristian_, I would have doubts about it working on japanese carriers anyways |
| 07:30.18 | johnx | also, the phone isn't out until october ... |
| 07:30.25 | Stskeeps | gomiam: AFAIK kernel is fully open source. |
| 07:30.27 | *** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@86.56.53.13) |
| 07:30.28 | timeless_mbp | although, in this case, it doesn't look like we have Brazilian Portuguese |
| 07:30.36 | Stskeeps | there's the obvious firmware .bin's like on a normal PC probably |
| 07:30.37 | gomiam | Stskeeps: thanks |
| 07:30.43 | gomiam | ok, ok |
| 07:30.53 | Stskeeps | but nothing restricting kernel |
| 07:31.03 | kristian_ | stskeeps: both |
| 07:31.05 | gomiam | I was asking because of things like the PAP situation in N8xx |
| 07:31.24 | timeless_mbp | frowns |
| 07:31.35 | Stskeeps | gomiam: PAP .. wasn't the issue with that actually the system software, not so much kernel? |
| 07:31.39 | timeless_mbp | our video camera has a 8 more pixels of resolution horizontally than our display? |
| 07:31.55 | gomiam | Stskeeps: it was both, AFAIK. But let me check just in case. |
| 07:31.56 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: users can't tell the difference between layers |
| 07:32.02 | timeless_mbp | everything's a "kernel" issue :) |
| 07:32.16 | Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: when someone mentions PAP i expect them to have some degree of understanding :P |
| 07:32.18 | Khertan_wantan90 | it s seems |
| 07:32.26 | timeless_mbp | doesn't :) |
| 07:32.34 | ShadowJK | timeless, mod 16 |
| 07:33.40 | Stskeeps | i wonder if squeezebox touch is hackable |
| 07:34.06 | gomiam | ok, so I mixed PAP and the propietary wifi kernel module. |
| 07:34.08 | ShadowJK | it's nice. Video codecs dislike things that aren't %16, but the scaler in the GPU doesn't care (I hope) |
| 07:34.36 | timeless_mbp | chuckles @ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/26/AR2009082601694.html |
| 07:34.43 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: i win :) |
| 07:34.45 | ShadowJK | there's opensource wifi driver now, isn't there |
| 07:35.13 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 07:35.20 | gomiam | in my defense, the way to work around the PAP issue was, as I read from the bugfile, that a different kernelo driver was needed for wpa_supplicant to work. |
| 07:35.33 | johnx | right, and even the proprietary kernel module actually wasn't stopping people from using vanilla wpasupplicant and using PAP that way, it was just a pain, not impossible :) |
| 07:35.45 | eton | the phone related function of n900 is not opensource? |
| 07:35.56 | Stskeeps | eton: we really don't know though |
| 07:35.58 | ShadowJK | some real issues might be that the gps driver depends on a kernel bug that's fixed in new kernels, and the n810 keyboard is broken in newer kernels (though luke has a fix?) |
| 07:36.02 | Stskeeps | phonet and kernel interfaces are OSS AFAIK |
| 07:36.56 | *** join/#maemo kleist (n=kleist@p5B3FB95C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:37.30 | timeless_mbp | yeah i'm pretty sure phonet is open |
| 07:37.41 | timeless_mbp | the ui is likely to be closed, but you're unlikely to want to do anything there |
| 07:37.53 | timeless_mbp | the ui is shared w/ other providers (SIP, Skype, ...) |
| 07:38.05 | timeless_mbp | and those are pluggable |
| 07:38.13 | ShadowJK | can you add your own voice and chat prov...ah |
| 07:38.14 | wazd | o/ all :) |
| 07:38.31 | timeless_mbp | the same applies to chat |
| 07:38.45 | timeless_mbp | that stuff is mostly the same architecture afaiu as was in the n810 |
| 07:38.52 | timeless_mbp | so you can drop in irc support or whatever |
| 07:39.08 | Stskeeps | call timeless_mbp on irc? ;P |
| 07:39.17 | suihkulokki | eton: you might want to look at ofono - n900 doesn't use it, but ofono already includes code for nokia-style phone interface |
| 07:39.28 | ShadowJK | or google voice (or whatever) without the "UI consistency" issues that apple is so worried about ;-) |
| 07:39.35 | Luke-Jr | gomiam: while N8x0 don't need proprietary kernel modules, there are still two userland blobs that make it impractical for community support |
| 07:39.42 | timeless_mbp | grumbles |
| 07:39.51 | timeless_mbp | so... would someone here please be my linguist? |
| 07:40.08 | Luke-Jr | linguist? |
| 07:41.26 | timeless_mbp | a consultant on language choice |
| 07:41.30 | *** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@mar44-1-87-90-32-28.dsl.club-internet.fr) |
| 07:41.36 | eton | suihkulokki, ofono is not completed yet. |
| 07:42.06 | Luke-Jr | timeless_mbp: if you're aiming for compatibility, I'd choose English |
| 07:42.08 | Luke-Jr | ;) |
| 07:42.09 | johnx | timeless_mbp, done. I assume you're fine with me charging my usual rate? |
| 07:42.17 | timeless_mbp | beer later? |
| 07:42.26 | gomiam | XD |
| 07:42.27 | johnx | deal :) |
| 07:42.28 | eton | suihkulokki, even USSD, GPRS, DUN are in still the road map. |
| 07:42.52 | timeless_mbp | eton: well, it's not like we offer DUN |
| 07:43.05 | Stskeeps | no tethering to another phone in maemo5? :P |
| 07:43.20 | timeless_mbp | although i suspect that you can add it yourself and that someone will package that |
| 07:43.58 | ShadowJK | Luke-Jr, http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Finnish The poor guy needs a hoarde of linguists just to survive paying for his groceries in finland |
| 07:44.54 | kirma | a good assumption that there's little reason for closed-source code on GSM modem(phone) functionality on low level is that even if it was closed source, the ability to switch software freely would make it very hard to get certified by FCC/ETSI/whatever for network use |
| 07:45.53 | kirma | the modem functionality has to be either physically separated to a separate hardware or run under some sort of trusted computing environment to make it acceptable under those terms, I suppose. |
| 07:45.57 | suihkulokki | eton: but if it would be complete and ready, it would take away from you all the fun of actually hacking on the code ;) |
| 07:46.14 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=Miranda@gwh-1-22-val21.ln.rinet.ru) |
| 07:46.44 | Luke-Jr | kirma: why? |
| 07:47.45 | *** join/#maemo tlir (n=tlir@84.229.178.153) |
| 07:47.58 | Luke-Jr | the real problem would be using modified versions, it shouldn't be making the modifications |
| 07:48.20 | tlir | has anyone seen the http://maemo.nokia.com/ n900 page? |
| 07:48.42 | ShadowJK | ... |
| 07:48.52 | Myrtti | tlir: make a wild guess |
| 07:48.55 | tlir | or am I like slowly catching up on things and that has been around for like decades :) |
| 07:49.02 | qwerty12_N810 | tlir: You've seen the topic, right? |
| 07:49.06 | tlir | yeah, I'm seeing the topic |
| 07:49.06 | kirma | tlir: millions |
| 07:49.09 | Luke-Jr | tlir: on IRC, minutes are years |
| 07:49.13 | tlir | indeed |
| 07:49.19 | kirma | literally |
| 07:49.21 | tlir | just getting a bit excited, that's all |
| 07:49.45 | tlir | does anyone want to buy my completely-unused-n810 ? :) |
| 07:49.57 | Luke-Jr | tlir: for $10, sure |
| 07:49.58 | Stskeeps | you can donate it to the community if you want :P |
| 07:50.10 | tlir | heh |
| 07:50.19 | tlir | hey $10 is a good deal |
| 07:50.24 | ShadowJK | I'll up it to 10E |
| 07:50.25 | tlir | I thought you'd go for no more than 5 |
| 07:50.40 | Luke-Jr | tlir: I'm including shipping |
| 07:50.41 | tlir | is kidding obviously |
| 07:51.09 | tlir | I'm just wondering, is the maemo5 stack will run on the n810 or not? |
| 07:51.15 | Luke-Jr | tlir: see Mer |
| 07:51.17 | Stskeeps | depends on which parts you mean |
| 07:51.28 | Stskeeps | most of the stack runs on n810 |
| 07:51.39 | Stskeeps | but a lot of the jazzy stuff you see isn't out or open sourced yet :) |
| 07:51.47 | tlir | right |
| 07:51.51 | tlir | did they publish a deadline? |
| 07:51.58 | Stskeeps | for? |
| 07:52.00 | *** join/#maemo Khertan_wantan90 (n=bhervier@nax2.naxos-fr.net) |
| 07:52.04 | tlir | for releasing it |
| 07:52.05 | Khertan_wantan90 | re |
| 07:52.16 | Luke-Jr | tlir: pretty sure it will be released in 2009 |
| 07:52.16 | Stskeeps | releasing what? :P |
| 07:52.32 | tlir | maemo5 |
| 07:52.45 | Stskeeps | tlir: beta2 is already out |
| 07:52.47 | Stskeeps | not sure about final SDK |
| 07:53.01 | Khertan_wantan90 | of course n900 is announced for October |
| 07:53.10 | tlir | ahh, ok |
| 07:53.28 | Stskeeps | (honestly, i wouldn't mind knowing a final SDK release date) |
| 07:53.31 | Stskeeps | would help planning a lot |
| 07:53.38 | *** join/#maemo herzi (n=herzi@port-2364.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 07:54.00 | Khertanwantan900 | does there is telephony api actually on beta sdk ? |
| 07:54.14 | *** join/#maemo pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0C0BA.access.telenet.be) |
| 07:54.14 | Stskeeps | well they didn't really reveal it was a phone until now |
| 07:54.32 | Khertanwantan900 | oh really ... |
| 07:54.37 | Khertanwantan900 | i was sure ... |
| 07:54.47 | Khertanwantan900 | it s a phone too |
| 07:55.24 | chx | It's a bit scary |
| 07:55.55 | chx | your average linux hacker with access to ... pretty much , your wallet. |
| 07:56.08 | chx | I would like to see the telephony part extremely well protected |
| 07:56.31 | chx | do you want to place a phone call to Mauritius for 24hrs just because Joe misplaced a dot somewhere :P ? |
| 07:56.44 | Stskeeps | that's the problem really - if you have a very flexible phone these things are possible |
| 07:56.49 | chx | it's one thing to install every piece o crap from extras devel now |
| 07:56.51 | Stskeeps | frankly, just add something in sudoers.d .. |
| 07:57.09 | Stskeeps | chx: i don't think it's for fun they have the legal warning |
| 07:57.12 | chx | but ... i would be a bit wary with the phone stuff. |
| 07:57.17 | Stskeeps | .. especially the very annoying fremantle one |
| 07:57.40 | chx | what legal warning? |
| 07:58.17 | Stskeeps | mm, the one when you install non-nokia packages |
| 07:58.25 | *** join/#maemo eocanha (n=eocanha@130.152.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 07:59.14 | chx | legal warnings |
| 07:59.31 | chx | legal warnings are good to cover the sorry behind of Nokia |
| 07:59.36 | chx | i want to cover *mine* |
| 07:59.50 | *** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@54.200.49.122-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 07:59.51 | *** join/#maemo RepMace_ (i=macer@lasziv.reprehensible.net) |
| 07:59.54 | gomiam | chx: buy some clothes :P |
| 07:59.58 | Stskeeps | then drive responsibly with your tablet |
| 07:59.59 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 08:00.01 | *** join/#maemo calvaris (n=calvaris@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 08:01.01 | *** join/#maemo arp (n=arp@c-0ddce155.141-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 08:01.44 | kirma | is the "nokia" repository of applications public already, btw? |
| 08:02.34 | kirma | just interested of the amount of applications available |
| 08:02.41 | Khertanwantan900 | (09:56:41) chx: I would like to see the telephony part extremely well protected <<< buy a iphone |
| 08:03.35 | Khertanwantan900 | kirma: most python app will run without changes |
| 08:04.04 | kirma | actually S60-style capability restrictions would make quite a lot sense exactly there, in phone calls/SMS sending |
| 08:05.04 | *** join/#maemo florian_kc (n=fuchs@port-217-146-132-69.static.qsc.de) |
| 08:05.04 | kirma | khertanwantan900: I thought more how end lusers see the available app base |
| 08:07.18 | Khertanwantan900 | just let s some times to dev :) |
| 08:07.34 | Khertanwantan900 | for example, i dev on the device himself ... |
| 08:07.51 | Khertanwantan900 | so i didn't have test yet my app on maemo5 |
| 08:08.41 | Khertanwantan900 | but i think that once device will be available for dev ... you ll see many apps appear in the repository |
| 08:11.02 | Khertanwantan900 | http://repository.maemo.org/dists/maemo5.0beta2/ ---> Directory listing is not allowed |
| 08:11.04 | Khertanwantan900 | oh ? |
| 08:11.30 | qwerty12_N810 | Yeah, they haven't removed their porn from that folder yet |
| 08:12.55 | Khertanwantan900 | hum ... i ve forgotten the extras ;) |
| 08:13.26 | Stskeeps | Khertanwantan900: go for /pool instead |
| 08:14.00 | Luke-Jr | kirma: the "nokia" repository is *never* public, it's locked to device owners. |
| 08:14.27 | Luke-Jr | unless you mean the generic stuff |
| 08:14.38 | Khertanwantan900 | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/free/binary-armel/Packages <- |
| 08:15.10 | Khertanwantan900 | stskeeps > i prefer to read the description of the packages ;) |
| 08:15.15 | Stskeeps | ah |
| 08:15.15 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 08:15.48 | Khertanwantan900 | euh ... |
| 08:15.58 | Khertanwantan900 | mcalendar is in the fremantle extras-devel |
| 08:16.06 | Khertanwantan900 | i ve never push it here |
| 08:16.33 | Khertanwantan900 | does they get application from diablo and recompile/repackage it ? |
| 08:16.34 | Stskeeps | it was pushed automatically afaik |
| 08:17.09 | Khertanwantan900 | hum ... interesting ... |
| 08:17.34 | Khertanwantan900 | did someone have a maemo sdk vmware image ? :) |
| 08:17.46 | Khertanwantan900 | i mean a fremantle sdk vmware image ? |
| 08:19.12 | Khertanwantan900 | will read talk.maemo.org if there is news about "developpers program" for the n900 |
| 08:22.33 | pupnik | garage maemo vmware images still missing the .vmx file? |
| 08:24.12 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (n=murrayc@dslb-084-056-056-027.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:25.45 | Khertanwantan900 | the main problem isn't the .vmx missing ... it s more that is Maemo Diablo |
| 08:25.57 | *** join/#maemo josch (n=josch@unaffiliated/josch) |
| 08:26.00 | josch | hey guys! |
| 08:26.27 | Khertanwantan900 | hi josch |
| 08:26.33 | josch | is there any info yet on the hw build into the n900? most importantly: the modem used |
| 08:26.44 | Stskeeps | go see kernel sources for beta2 i guess |
| 08:26.45 | *** join/#maemo dl9pf (n=dl9pf@ip180156.wh.uni-hannover.de) |
| 08:26.51 | Stskeeps | (this might not be accurate.) |
| 08:27.04 | josch | ah so there are already some devices out there? |
| 08:27.15 | *** join/#maemo jdav_gone (n=james@d66-183-52-25.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 08:27.55 | *** join/#maemo user_ (n=user@93-96-213-72.zone4.bethere.co.uk) |
| 08:27.57 | Stskeeps | nah, but nokia has been playing with open cards in a lot of the SW |
| 08:28.21 | Stskeeps | fremantle has had pre-alpha, pre-alpha2, alpha, beta1, beta2 |
| 08:28.55 | wazd | lol, maemo browser now has "hover mode" :) |
| 08:30.09 | *** part/#maemo gnufs (n=ali@81.214.254.121) |
| 08:31.22 | Stskeeps | can we consider changing maemo.org profile "Itt thanks" to be talk.maemo.org Thanks or something? :P |
| 08:31.31 | *** join/#maemo jdav_gone (n=james@d66-183-52-25.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 08:31.56 | wazd | http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/tablet-heart-web-browser-part-i/ "In Chapter II we\rquote ll discuss ... roll over mode, scrollbars and others." 8) |
| 08:34.08 | *** part/#maemo kleist (n=kleist@p5B3FB95C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:34.38 | Khertanwantan900 | someone can try for me PyGTKEditor in the fremantle sdk ? (available in extras-devel) |
| 08:35.41 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: We can consider it, but it is a bit hard to do that. As the name is used as a var etc. |
| 08:35.46 | Stskeeps | ah |
| 08:36.01 | Stskeeps | wonders how on earth karma will be calculated if things start moving into git trees and such |
| 08:36.18 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: Probably not ;) |
| 08:36.42 | Stskeeps | we should start thinking about how we can calculate based on platform contributions really :P |
| 08:37.06 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: Well, I can easily hook that up to the packages interface ;) |
| 08:37.38 | X-Fade | So releases and number of unique packages can add karma. |
| 08:38.10 | X-Fade | And we can add Mer tracking too of course.. |
| 08:38.23 | *** join/#maemo ScriptRipper (n=mmohring@p4FDBE7BF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:38.39 | Stskeeps | but it's really also about let's say.. people participating in the sprints doesn't get any karma for the tasks done, just of the effects on wiki/blog/talk of it |
| 08:38.50 | Stskeeps | or mer developers getting karma for completed tasks |
| 08:39.07 | *** join/#maemo Bert_ (i=d20d603a@gateway/web/freenode/x-quguqdnbxvzydrbf) |
| 08:39.09 | Stskeeps | right now we kind of encourage people just doing apps and whining on talk or submitting bugs ;) |
| 08:39.09 | Khertanwantan900 | It should be a good idea ... but please after the device program :) i m still in #17 pos ... but after that i ll be so low :) |
| 08:39.29 | X-Fade | As long as you come up with some good metric that can be counted, it can be implemented as a plugin. |
| 08:39.30 | *** join/#maemo ds3 (i=noinf@netblock-66-245-251-24.dslextreme.com) |
| 08:39.35 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 08:39.41 | Stskeeps | even though LOC is a lousy one ;) |
| 08:40.04 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: Well, then i should just do a big indent run on the code base ;) |
| 08:40.07 | Stskeeps | hehe |
| 08:40.15 | Stskeeps | i'll think about it |
| 08:40.20 | Stskeeps | it's something we'll probably need post-summit |
| 08:40.30 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: closes bug #xxxx |
| 08:40.35 | Stskeeps | for instance |
| 08:40.41 | Stskeeps | or patch for bug #xxxx |
| 08:40.42 | *** join/#maemo femorandeira (n=Felipe@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 08:40.47 | X-Fade | Closing bugs should be karma+++ ;) |
| 08:41.10 | X-Fade | But that would mean that you need to add everything to a tracker. |
| 08:41.23 | X-Fade | Every task at least. |
| 08:41.42 | Khertanwantan900 | and that the tracker let user add version |
| 08:41.43 | Stskeeps | in mer we have a sprintweb.. but it doesn't put a point estimate on each task |
| 08:41.49 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=valerio@bl5-204-2.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 08:41.52 | qwerty12_N810 | X-Fade: I keep getting told that I am "not a maintainer of this package" when I click the Promote package link on http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/transmission/1.73-5maemo8 . I assure you that I am a maintainer ;) |
| 08:42.09 | X-Fade | qwerty12_N810: I think it is because your session is lost. |
| 08:42.24 | X-Fade | I'm trying to figure out why sessions are dropped like mad. |
| 08:42.51 | X-Fade | We added another server to the cluster yesterday and then sessions started to misbehave. |
| 08:43.13 | josch | hrm.. a quick grep through the changes made by nokia didnt reveil any definite options for the used modem there are pieces of code for telit as well for qualcomm chips |
| 08:43.41 | Stskeeps | probably self-made, josch |
| 08:44.07 | horizon | do not they use some ti chips for this? |
| 08:44.45 | qwerty12_N810 | X-Fade: Ah... I'll wait then :) |
| 08:45.02 | X-Fade | qwerty12_N810: Well, just run the url at https. |
| 08:45.15 | X-Fade | qwerty12_N810: for now. |
| 08:45.53 | Khertanwantan900 | horizon: search on google ARM Cortex A8 |
| 08:46.01 | josch | horizon: since when does TI do modems? |
| 08:46.36 | horizon | ti does multistandard mobile radio frontends for ages |
| 08:47.00 | qwerty12_N810 | X-Fade: Appears to be working (albeit, very slowly), thanks |
| 08:47.24 | X-Fade | qwerty12_N810: Uncached mode ;) |
| 08:47.47 | X-Fade | qwerty12_N810: Or are you talking about promotion? |
| 08:48.29 | X-Fade | qwerty12_N810: Checking big dependency trees 5 levels down takes some time. |
| 08:48.35 | *** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@217.174.199.201) |
| 08:48.50 | qwerty12_N810 | Was talking about the time taken from me clicking "Promote package" to the page saying that it was done |
| 08:49.01 | qwerty12_N810 | Heh, I can imagine... |
| 08:49.30 | X-Fade | qwerty12_N810: Yeah, a lot of calcs and unfortunately a lot of calls to dpkg to do version comparison. |
| 08:51.20 | *** join/#maemo jjmarin (n=jjmarin_@84.125.149.110.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 08:52.08 | qwerty12_N810 | Well, congrats on the packages interface. It certainly is faster ticking boxes ;) |
| 08:52.18 | qwerty12_N810 | +than |
| 08:52.19 | jjmarin | Hi, anybody knows which pdf reader uses Maemo5 by default?. Where I can find the code? |
| 08:53.56 | Stskeeps | jjmarin: it's in diablo too afaik |
| 08:54.33 | Mek | the maemo5 one has a slightly different UI of course... |
| 08:55.00 | Stskeeps | i kinda doubt that.. it's still hildon |
| 08:55.02 | jjmarin | ... Do you know where I can the code :) |
| 08:55.16 | Mek | still hildon, but the menu has kind of changed, and things like that |
| 08:55.18 | X-Fade | jjmarin: The maemo5 apps aren't released yet. |
| 08:55.23 | X-Fade | jjmarin: only sdk. |
| 08:56.33 | Mek | yeah, okay. the ui indeed seems to be more or less the same, except for the menu thing |
| 08:56.51 | jjmarin | So it's an update of the pdf reader for Maemo4, isn't it? |
| 08:57.10 | X-Fade | jjmarin: That would be a safe bet, yes. |
| 08:57.27 | *** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=slonopot@83.149.9.210) |
| 08:57.38 | jjmarin | OK, that code is available ? |
| 08:57.49 | X-Fade | yes |
| 08:58.32 | *** join/#maemo ibane (n=ibane@esprx01x.nokia.com) |
| 08:58.44 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (n=JRocha@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 08:58.52 | jjmarin | X-Fade: Where I can find it? |
| 08:59.09 | *** join/#maemo _berto_ (n=berto@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 08:59.24 | Stskeeps | repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo is a good shot |
| 09:00.21 | jjmarin | do you know the name, the list is large ;) |
| 09:00.26 | Khertanwantan900 | A question to every maemo lover here ... |
| 09:00.34 | Stskeeps | jrocha: osso-pdf-reader |
| 09:00.34 | Stskeeps | AFAIK |
| 09:00.35 | Khertanwantan900 | what do you think of this : http://khertan.net/2009/08/an-other-datetimepicker/ |
| 09:00.36 | Stskeeps | err. |
| 09:00.37 | Stskeeps | jjmarin: |
| 09:00.50 | Mek | not oss-pdf-viewer? |
| 09:00.52 | Khertanwantan900 | and particulary this : http://khertan.net/wp-content/uploads/Vid%C3%A9o007.3gp |
| 09:00.58 | Mek | that is the name of the package in fremantle... |
| 09:00.59 | *** join/#maemo mcpi (n=user@p579D6D20.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:01.02 | Mek | osso-pdf-viewer that is |
| 09:01.20 | jrocha | Stskeeps: no problem about pinging me :) |
| 09:01.23 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 09:01.32 | Khertanwantan900 | it s an datetime picker for mPIM where you can set the start time end time and date at the same time |
| 09:02.05 | jjmarin | Mek: Thanks a lot !!! :) |
| 09:02.27 | X-Fade | jjmarin: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/o/osso-pdf-viewer/osso-pdf-viewer_1.5.35-1.tar.gz |
| 09:02.35 | X-Fade | Seems to be the latest public version |
| 09:02.55 | jjmarin | X-Face: Thanks again :) |
| 09:03.26 | *** part/#maemo josch (n=josch@unaffiliated/josch) |
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| 09:06.29 | VDVsx | X-Fade, I've a problem with a dep for one of the games that I want to port, the stupid package depends on itself to build, i.e in order to build the package you need a binary of the compiler shipped in the package :( (free pascal) |
| 09:06.55 | X-Fade | VDVsx: Wtf? :) |
| 09:06.58 | VDVsx | X-Fade, anything we can do ? the dep is only needed for building the game |
| 09:07.15 | VDVsx | X-Fade, http://wiki.freepascal.org/How_to_setup_a_FPC_and_Lazarus_Ubuntu_repository |
| 09:07.45 | VDVsx | lol |
| 09:07.57 | X-Fade | VDVsx: You would probably need to do it in 2 steps then? |
| 09:08.34 | X-Fade | VDVsx: Upload the compiler in the package first. |
| 09:10.16 | pupnik | i am trying to remember the game VDVsx |
| 09:10.36 | pupnik | heh, i know i saw one with pascal |
| 09:10.51 | VDVsx | pupnik, a lot of games depend on pascal and perl :( |
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| 09:11.13 | pupnik | that robot game remake from c64? |
| 09:11.47 | suihkulokki | robotfindskitten ? |
| 09:12.14 | VDVsx | pupnik, nop, hedgewars |
| 09:12.38 | pupnik | ahrrr |
| 09:12.42 | pupnik | good luck |
| 09:12.50 | VDVsx | worms-like :) |
| 09:12.57 | VDVsx | is Qt :) |
| 09:13.47 | pupnik | yea |
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| 09:28.34 | lardman | morning |
| 09:30.35 | onion | why don't nokia.fi have anything about the N900? |
| 09:31.19 | Dasajev | http://www.nokia.fi/tuotteet/kaikki-puhelimet/nokia-n900 |
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| 09:31.30 | onion | search won't find anything |
| 09:32.26 | lardman | oo amazing, it's on the UK poages at last |
| 09:32.36 | onion | Dasajev: but thanks |
| 09:32.57 | Khertanwantan900 | onion: why nokia.fr didn't have anything about n810 and n800 :) |
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| 09:33.29 | lardman | no pre-order yet for the uk site though |
| 09:33.30 | tbf | onion: my hope is, that it is not on the front page yet, because you cannot bye it yet |
| 09:33.36 | Khertanwantan900 | oh ! n900 is now on nokia.fr |
| 09:34.11 | Khertanwantan900 | in fr : to buy : call :) |
| 09:35.08 | pupnik | heh |
| 09:35.48 | Khertanwantan900 | but they will surely said that it s not yet available :) |
| 09:39.07 | onion | tbf: yeah, but I would expect the site search would find it |
| 09:40.08 | RST38h | moo all |
| 09:40.15 | RST38h | How are things in the maemo land? |
| 09:40.24 | tbf | onion: must be some bug in their software: for instance you'll find it on http://www.nokia.fi/tuotteet when giving its specs... |
| 09:40.34 | tbf | onion: but the drop-down box doesn't list it |
| 09:40.53 | lardman | hi RST38h |
| 09:40.58 | tbf | onion: same happens on the German site (and probably all other sites) |
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| 09:41.35 | RST38h | heya lardman |
| 09:41.42 | kirma | preordered N900... well, if the price turns out to be too high, I just cancel the order. |
| 09:41.57 | onion | looks like it just takes a while for webmonkeys to do their thing :) |
| 09:42.11 | kirma | from local shop in ruoholahti, maybe folks there could deliver some to the shop? :I |
| 09:42.12 | kirma | ;) |
| 09:42.54 | dl9pf | rumors about the price already ? |
| 09:43.21 | lardman | it was listed already iirc |
| 09:43.27 | kirma | shop.nokia.de listed it at 599 euros, and press release the recommended price 500 euros plus taxes |
| 09:43.28 | lardman | 500 euros + local taxes |
| 09:45.36 | pupnik | thats the price of a nice new pc |
| 09:46.07 | pupnik | then again, it is a computer |
| 09:48.02 | kirma | tbf: tell me when it's available on web .fi web shop :] |
| 09:49.32 | RST38h | $500 is a really meek pc |
| 09:49.48 | lardman | meek? |
| 09:49.51 | lardman | cheap? |
| 09:50.06 | RST38h | weak and cheap and low on features |
| 09:50.23 | lardman | ok |
| 09:50.28 | RST38h | Oh wait, that was 500 euros =) |
| 09:50.37 | lardman | £500 here will get you something half decent |
| 09:50.37 | RST38h | hates the current exchange rate |
| 09:50.45 | lardman | same here! |
| 09:52.48 | RST38h | sachin and ysss met in the ring of death for the final (?) showdown |
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| 09:55.05 | |tbb| | hi there, simple short question. will maemo5 work on n810 tablets? |
| 09:55.13 | lardman | not as is |
| 09:55.25 | lardman | but Mer is looking to port features & compatibility |
| 09:55.28 | RST38h | tbb: short answer is no |
| 09:56.45 | Stskeeps | long answer is somewhat |
| 09:56.45 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 09:57.05 | Khertanwantan900 | and real answer is : in one year |
| 09:57.32 | RST38h | Real answer is probably "never" |
| 09:57.36 | lardman | well just cross fingers for opengl driver and then we're on a reasonably equal playing field |
| 09:57.50 | RST38h | If by Maemo5 we understand the new desktop the task switcher, all the apps, etc |
| 09:58.21 | lardman | I guess those parts will be closed source, or will it all be open? As they are differentiators |
| 09:59.41 | RST38h | No idea, but I guess it does not make a difference as long as we can't run underlying APIs on N8x0 |
| 09:59.54 | lardman | which ones? |
| 10:00.35 | RST38h | The OGL ES one for example |
| 10:01.01 | RST38h | Also, if the maemo5 binaries are compiled for OMAP3, they may crash on OMAP2 |
| 10:01.03 | lardman | yeah, well assuming we do get that one day |
| 10:01.41 | lardman | yes, that was to be my next question, assuming some components are closed source, we'll need to ask Nokia nicely to release those compiled for our cpu |
| 10:02.25 | RST38h | BTW, if you remember that bug with 770 crash due to unaligned pointer, it is still there |
| 10:02.40 | RST38h | Nobody fixed it |
| 10:03.03 | RST38h | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:03.05 | lardman | what components? |
| 10:03.10 | lardman | component even |
| 10:03.17 | RST38h | the theme thing |
| 10:03.23 | RST38h | sapwood! |
| 10:03.32 | |tbb| | it was nice to have an ITT without phone cabilities, may i will switch to the new rumored ipodtouch then. |
| 10:03.34 | lardman | RST38h: no I don't expect it, but they seem far more cooperative these days |
| 10:03.57 | lardman | |tbb|: you don't need to use the phone on it if you don't want |
| 10:04.24 | Khertanwantan900 | but you must pay it :) |
| 10:05.02 | Myrtti | life is a beach, and then you learn how to spell |
| 10:05.03 | |tbb| | exactly |
| 10:07.26 | lardman | I learned, my fingers just don't obey all the time :) |
| 10:08.09 | timeless_mbp | http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1349619&cid=29218091 |
| 10:08.10 | timeless_mbp | :) |
| 10:08.11 | |tbb| | had 770 - n800 - n810 before, was satisfied and liked the opensource thinking behind. Any idea in which price region the new tablet err i mean the phone will stay |
| 10:08.32 | lardman | 500e |
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| 10:11.02 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: use ohloh for it :) |
| 10:11.44 | |tbb| | may this device fit in my needings http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/27/sharps-5-inch-pc-z1-netwalker-honors-the-zaurus-legacy/ |
| 10:11.47 | |tbb| | hopefully |
| 10:12.09 | Myrtti | good luck in that |
| 10:14.25 | timeless_mbp | Khertanwantan900: you really need thicker lines for the clock face and hands |
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| 10:18.07 | Kinshuk | hey guys anyone here from india ? |
| 10:18.24 | Kinshuk | i am participating in an open source event and i am looking for someone who can talk about maemo there |
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| 10:20.35 | timeless_mbp | part of Maemo is in India (real Nokia employees) |
| 10:20.40 | timeless_mbp | ask qgil for contact info |
| 10:28.18 | pupnik | your english is sufficient to also talk-to non-indians |
| 10:31.07 | Khertanwantan900 | (12:14:58) timeless_mbp: Khertanwantan900: you really need thicker lines for the clock face and hands <<< yep ... as i said this is not finished :) |
| 10:31.12 | Khertanwantan900 | just a try :) |
| 10:31.40 | Khertanwantan900 | but thanks to have take a look at it |
| 10:31.41 | Khertanwantan900 | :) |
| 10:32.36 | Khertanwantan900 | and i need optimize the code ... and found a way to better detect which things move |
| 10:32.43 | Khertanwantan900 | hours or minutes ... |
| 10:33.24 | Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: not a bad idea |
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| 10:33.37 | timeless_mbp | ? |
| 10:33.55 | Stskeeps | ohloh for karma |
| 10:34.01 | Stskeeps | it has the development time thing ;) |
| 10:34.36 | timeless_mbp | ah |
| 10:34.45 | timeless_mbp | yeah... ohloh really is the right answer there |
| 10:34.52 | timeless_mbp | they have to get git and co right anyway |
| 10:34.56 | timeless_mbp | so let it be their problem |
| 10:37.49 | Khertanwantan900 | (12:34:34) Stskeeps: it has the development time thing ;)< hum ... but it doesn't work well |
| 10:38.24 | Khertanwantan900 | and for those which didn't use git/svn/cvs ? |
| 10:38.28 | *** join/#maemo baraujo (n=Bruno@189.2.128.130) |
| 10:38.29 | Khertanwantan900 | :) |
| 10:39.54 | timeless_mbp | it supports hg |
| 10:39.55 | timeless_mbp | and bzr |
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| 10:42.12 | X-Fade | Ohloh would be pretty nice for that indeed. Although it is lagging on indexing a lot. |
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| 10:43.25 | javispedro | moo all |
| 10:44.16 | adeus | http://conversations.nokia.com/2009/08/27/nokia-n900-first-videos-and-hands-on-tour/ |
| 10:44.43 | X-Fade | adeus: As the date in the url says: old :) |
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| 10:45.02 | javispedro | I hope qgil, or someone else at nokia, understands that the best fscinkg way to make someone port their applications to fremantle is to send a nearly free n900 his way. |
| 10:45.05 | Kinshuk | timeless_mbp thx |
| 10:45.12 | javispedro | therefore moving his itch to the new platform and hoping he scratches it again. |
| 10:45.17 | adeus | lastlog revealed nothing! |
| 10:46.35 | adeus | or last I missed that hands-on tour |
| 10:48.09 | Stskeeps | javispedro: or a good developer rebate |
| 10:48.21 | Stskeeps | javispedro: you're right though - and i think nokia does understand that :P |
| 10:48.34 | aol_ | are there any preferred distros for Maemo 5 SDK ? |
| 10:48.46 | lardman | Ubuntu? |
| 10:48.46 | Stskeeps | debian based i think |
| 10:48.56 | aol_ | ok alright, I'll install ubuntu |
| 10:49.08 | aol_ | thanks |
| 10:49.41 | X-Fade | javispedro: Looking at the history, I think they have something planned. |
| 10:49.59 | Khertanwantan900 | (12:49:07) aol_: are there any preferred distros for Maemo 5 SDK ? < Maemo ... |
| 10:50.01 | Khertanwantan900 | :) |
| 10:50.05 | zerojayPC | stretch/yawn |
| 10:50.06 | javispedro | I think they should play that ace more. |
| 10:50.20 | aol_ | Khertanwantan900: can I run the sdk on maemo ? :) |
| 10:50.32 | javispedro | e.g. 5% initial discount, 10% rebate if we see your finished app. |
| 10:50.36 | aol_ | on my N800? would be very cool :) |
| 10:50.47 | Khertanwantan900 | no it s not possible :( |
| 10:50.57 | aol_ | I sort of guessed :) |
| 10:51.16 | Khertanwantan900 | javispedro: they are already sponsoring some people to the summit at Amsterdam in octobr |
| 10:51.42 | Stskeeps | i have no idea how the previous rebates were |
| 10:51.45 | Stskeeps | i wish i did though |
| 10:51.49 | Stskeeps | came quite late in the game :) |
| 10:51.54 | Khertanwantan900 | javispedro: and provide great discount for my n810 |
| 10:51.57 | lardman | how, how do you mean? |
| 10:52.02 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: Devices for 100 euro. |
| 10:52.03 | Khertanwantan900 | i paid it 100Euro |
| 10:52.10 | Stskeeps | that's fairly cheap |
| 10:52.11 | javispedro | O.o |
| 10:52.12 | lardman | yeah, £70 iirc |
| 10:52.16 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: And free ones at akademy. |
| 10:52.36 | Khertanwantan900 | hope i could get a n900 too for that price ... |
| 10:52.41 | qwerty12_N810 | spits. He had a £180 N800 :) |
| 10:52.52 | javispedro | they're not gonna do that this time, they must have realised their developer base = half their consumer base ;) |
| 10:52.57 | Khertanwantan900 | as 500 Euros HT is too high for my wife |
| 10:53.04 | Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: i honestly think you have a bigger chance of a devel machine than me :> |
| 10:53.08 | zerojayPC | I got my N810 free, but only because something went massively wrong with my discount code and finally, after about 10 months of it not working and being without a tablet (I sold my N800 when I got my dev discount), Quim just sent me one free. |
| 10:53.11 | Stskeeps | devel rebate that is |
| 10:53.15 | qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: bollocks |
| 10:53.18 | zerojayPC | And two weeks later, the battery in it died. :/ |
| 10:53.28 | zerojayPC | And somehow came back to life six months later. |
| 10:53.35 | Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: at least you got a N810 for free :) |
| 10:53.39 | pupnik | quim is doing a good job |
| 10:53.46 | Khertanwantan900 | pupnik: yep |
| 10:53.50 | aol_ | btw, any reason why Eclipse eetc would not run on N900? |
| 10:53.51 | Khertanwantan900 | really |
| 10:53.52 | qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: indeed, thanks again :) |
| 10:54.03 | aol_ | would be kind of perverted to do programming on it |
| 10:54.06 | Khertanwantan900 | aol_: eclipse is coded in java |
| 10:54.16 | aol_ | still no JVM ? |
| 10:54.17 | javispedro | aol_, none at all, search for the embedded java se and try it. |
| 10:54.26 | aol_ | ah ok |
| 10:54.26 | slonopotamus | aol_, 256ram |
| 10:54.30 | javispedro | but on omap2 hw you'll die before it loads. |
| 10:54.35 | Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: meh, you bloody deserved it |
| 10:54.43 | slonopotamus | aol_, it will run, but slowly |
| 10:54.45 | Khertanwantan900 | and there is real editor if you need |
| 10:54.49 | aol_ | slonopotamus: but 1 GB virtual :) |
| 10:54.54 | Khertanwantan900 | instead of Eclipse |
| 10:54.54 | aol_ | ok |
| 10:55.04 | Khertanwantan900 | i suggest you to try PyGTKEditor |
| 10:55.05 | Khertanwantan900 | :) |
| 10:55.09 | tbf | the bigger problem for eclipse is the keyboard, friends |
| 10:55.13 | slonopotamus | aol_, meh, even if 1tb |
| 10:55.31 | Khertanwantan900 | use it for doing his soft directly on his n810 in the train :) |
| 10:55.33 | aol_ | so how about c++ etc, whats the footprint of those |
| 10:55.40 | aol_ | I meant gcc |
| 10:55.44 | slonopotamus | Khertanwantan900, !! |
| 10:55.49 | javispedro | aol_, debian/mer chroot and go ahead. |
| 10:55.54 | slonopotamus | Khertanwantan900, can you fix redo, plz? :) |
| 10:55.59 | Khertanwantan900 | ? |
| 10:56.03 | Khertanwantan900 | it didn't work ? |
| 10:56.08 | Khertanwantan900 | never made error |
| 10:56.12 | slonopotamus | it never worked |
| 10:56.17 | Khertanwantan900 | oh ... |
| 10:56.22 | slonopotamus | it undoes |
| 10:56.38 | slonopotamus | instead of redoing |
| 10:56.41 | javispedro | The KhertHAL9000 computers are incapable of error |
| 10:56.41 | Khertanwantan900 | oups |
| 10:56.44 | javispedro | it must be your fault. |
| 10:56.57 | Khertanwantan900 | i ll take a look :) |
| 10:57.27 | *** join/#maemo qkall (n=user@32.145.73.83) |
| 10:58.10 | Khertanwantan900 | effectivelu |
| 10:58.13 | Khertanwantan900 | indeed |
| 10:58.24 | Khertanwantan900 | other complain ? |
| 10:58.26 | Khertanwantan900 | :) |
| 11:00.17 | slonopotamus | Khertan_afk, minor bug: it stops marking file as modified if you hit save but save fails (no permissions, for ex) |
| 11:01.51 | slonopotamus | Khertan_afk, scroll position is lost when switching from fullscreen. it scrolls to cursor |
| 11:02.58 | slonopotamus | Khertan_afk, also, cursor and scroll always point to end of file on file open. is it a feature? pointing to beginning is more natural, i think |
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| 11:17.08 | Khertan_n810 | [13:13] <khertan_n810> PyGTKEditor 2.4.1 is now in the auto builder queuen[13:14] <khertan_n810> it fix the redo bug :) |
| 11:17.09 | X-Fade | Any jquery experts around? |
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| 11:17.30 | Khertan_n810 | fixed / packaged /sent from my nit ... |
| 11:18.08 | Khertan_n810 | and i still thanks x-fade for this auto builder web assistant |
| 11:20.15 | Khertan_n810 | ping ? |
| 11:21.04 | Khertan_n810 | infobot ? |
| 11:21.34 | Khertan_n810 | ~ping ? |
| 11:21.35 | infobot | ~pong |
| 11:21.48 | Khertan_n810 | great |
| 11:23.23 | Khertan_n810 | pygtkeditor build ok ... should be available in few minutes in extras-devel repository |
| 11:25.03 | slonopotamus | Khertan_afk, cool :) |
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| 11:25.57 | X-Fade | jeremiah: ping? |
| 11:26.28 | X-Fade | jeremiah: Can you run a check on fremantle extras-devel to check if there are any libs which are also in the SDK and have a lower version than sdk? |
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| 11:36.49 | lcuk | aol_, buld essential is ~80mb |
| 11:37.07 | lcuk | then ontop you need whichever -dev libs |
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| 11:37.27 | lcuk | wiped out everything to fit it on |
| 11:38.09 | lcuk | X-Fade, have noughty people been mucking about again, or is this an over zealous auto upgrade conversion |
| 11:38.18 | lcuk | naughty |
| 11:40.56 | Kinshuk | timeless_mbp: qgil is from nokia india ?? i dnt see him arnd |
| 11:42.00 | Myrtti | he's in Finland |
| 11:42.29 | Khertanwantan900 | back :) |
| 11:44.32 | Khertanwantan900 | Someone with a working fremantle sdk can test PyGTKEditor and send me a screenshot if it works |
| 11:44.41 | Khertanwantan900 | i would like to see the result :) |
| 11:44.54 | lcuk | wouldnt it look the same |
| 11:45.04 | Khertanwantan900 | maybe ... don t know :) |
| 11:45.19 | lcuk | or have you made code editing finger friendly too :D |
| 11:45.39 | Khertanwantan900 | nope ... i ve found a Maemo device with a 10" screen |
| 11:45.52 | Khertanwantan900 | i've/i'ven't |
| 11:46.05 | lcuk | humans have macro zoom |
| 11:46.05 | *** join/#maemo beatpanic (n=kpanic@ns.km30513.keymachine.de) |
| 11:46.15 | lcuk | if you hold it close enough to your eye, it will rival even imax |
| 11:46.53 | Khertanwantan900 | pygtkeditor can zoom too ... |
| 11:47.01 | Khertanwantan900 | use your +/- keys |
| 11:47.09 | Khertanwantan900 | it increase the font size :) |
| 11:47.17 | *** join/#maemo skibur (n=skibur@adsl-69-153-52-155.dsl.snantx.swbell.net) |
| 11:47.20 | lcuk | my +- keys are normally behind the screen in my crate |
| 11:47.27 | timeless_mbp | Kinshuk: he's a public contact person who could give you the name of someone from nokia in india |
| 11:47.36 | lcuk | but yeah i saw that when i was using it |
| 11:47.46 | Kinshuk | timeless_mbp: wokay |
| 11:47.52 | skibur | n900? |
| 11:47.53 | skibur | wow |
| 11:48.00 | lcuk | timeless, did you get any sleep |
| 11:49.09 | Khertanwantan900 | skibur: you are late :) |
| 11:49.10 | timeless_mbp | a few hours |
| 11:49.21 | lcuk | heh |
| 11:50.18 | skibur | lol |
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| 11:51.22 | Khertanwantan900 | timeless: a few day if you count eldar "leaked" shot |
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| 11:52.14 | timeless_mbp | Khertanwantan900: wrong context |
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| 11:54.35 | Khertanwantan900 | :) |
| 11:54.53 | lbt | hmm, thinking back to the engineering prototypes... they were quite weighty |
| 11:55.09 | lbt | maybe they should do a magnesium bodied one |
| 11:55.15 | Khertanwantan900 | osso.context on PyGTKEditor on the fremantle sdk ? :) |
| 11:56.42 | *** join/#maemo eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-3-244.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 11:56.52 | lcuk | lbt, the smartq was lighter, but i didnt think "mmm this is heavy" |
| 11:57.39 | lbt | maye dense is better |
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| 11:57.54 | SpeedEvil | passes lbt a small helium balloon on a string. |
| 11:58.06 | lbt | that'll do it |
| 11:58.08 | lcuk | lbt, the smartq was *under* weight if anything |
| 11:58.19 | lcuk | felt like it would blow away |
| 11:58.28 | lcuk | hey thats a htought - mer brancded paper weights |
| 11:58.43 | lcuk | -typos |
| 11:58.52 | lbt | nah, you need Gentoo installed to get that... |
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| 11:59.09 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (n=wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 11:59.46 | lcuk | http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090813011739AAOmUFw |
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| 12:16.54 | Khertanwantan900 | with 32Go ... the n900 will be really heavy |
| 12:18.10 | VDVsx | Khertanwantan900, 181g :P |
| 12:20.40 | Khertanwantan900 | VDVsx: did you have look at the lcuk link ? :) |
| 12:20.53 | pupnik | which� |
| 12:22.36 | *** join/#maemo tonikitoo (n=tonikito@189.2.128.130) |
| 12:22.59 | VDVsx | Khertanwantan900, ah, ok, lolololol |
| 12:23.30 | Khertanwantan900 | http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090813011739AAOmUFw |
| 12:23.48 | Khertanwantan900 | héhé |
| 12:26.40 | LoCusF | is there any word on when the Maemo 5 SDK final version comes? |
| 12:26.52 | LoCusF | Maemo summit perhaps at October? |
| 12:26.58 | andre__ | LoCusF, like always with Nokia: when it's ready ;-) |
| 12:27.04 | LoCusF | hehehehehhe :) |
| 12:28.17 | pupnik | i cant read irssi yellow nicks |
| 12:30.04 | LoCusF | I've got red on black so not a problem :) |
| 12:30.24 | *** join/#maemo Meiz_n810 (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-feeedc00-64.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:31.01 | pupnik | LoCusF - where change colors? |
| 12:31.53 | *** join/#maemo alecrim (n=alecrim@189.2.128.130) |
| 12:33.17 | pupnik | i would like to do a study of color-blindness among foss devs |
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| 12:45.59 | *** part/#maemo exaltis (n=george@unaffiliated/exaltis) |
| 12:51.27 | lcuk | pupnik, inkblot tests would be better |
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| 13:05.29 | pupnik | obviously color-blindness is fairly coömmon and isnt a personal fault. but linux term coläors are a catastrophe |
| 13:05.42 | *** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@87.90.32.28) |
| 13:06.23 | pupnik | i wonder if a typo tracker could be used to make better keyboards |
| 13:06.38 | *** join/#maemo eton (n=eton@58.8.14.133) |
| 13:06.48 | Stskeeps | dear god, not another ogg discussion |
| 13:07.38 | javispedro | yet another? :P |
| 13:08.24 | Stskeeps | i think it's excellent we get a device where we have the freedom to install ogg |
| 13:08.45 | Stskeeps | requiring someone preinstall ogg is not very 'free' |
| 13:09.21 | pupnik | ? |
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| 13:15.43 | kulve | I guess I need to create fremantle version of the ogg-support.. |
| 13:16.09 | Stskeeps | shouldn't be too difficult |
| 13:18.27 | *** part/#maemo danielwilms (n=dwilms@147.243.155.42) |
| 13:24.48 | *** part/#maemo Kinshuk (n=kinshuk@122.160.70.182) |
| 13:27.37 | Khertanwantan900 | does there is python binding to use the accelerometers ? |
| 13:28.33 | Stskeeps | prolly same as on a freerunner |
| 13:30.58 | tigert | Khertanwantan900: Attitude seems to be python |
| 13:31.08 | tigert | look at it? |
| 13:31.30 | X-Fade | reads directly from sys entry iirc. |
| 13:31.46 | tigert | ah ok |
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| 13:33.02 | Khertanwantan900 | tigert ... not yet ... |
| 13:33.05 | Khertanwantan900 | but i ll look |
| 13:33.59 | VDVsx | Khertanwantan900, http://wiki.maemo.org/Accelerometers |
| 13:34.36 | Khertanwantan900 | thx |
| 13:36.09 | *** join/#maemo radic (n=radic@HSI-KBW-095-208-184-058.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 13:36.59 | Khertanwantan900 | i ll ask a stupid question ... does there is speaker ... |
| 13:37.09 | Khertanwantan900 | but of course ... it s a phone |
| 13:37.10 | Khertanwantan900 | :) |
| 13:37.18 | Khertanwantan900 | . . . |
| 13:37.20 | Khertanwantan900 | . . . . . |
| 13:37.29 | *** join/#maemo zerojay (n=zerojay@74.198.12.5) |
| 13:38.57 | LoCusF | pupnik: ~/.irssi/config |
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| 13:39.42 | *** join/#maemo tonikitoo (n=tonikito@189.2.128.130) |
| 13:40.33 | pupnik | eh? |
| 13:40.56 | pupnik | loks |
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| 13:43.43 | Khertanwantan900 | http://www.geoinweb.com/2009/08/24/metro-paris-application-iphone-realite-augmentee/comment-page-1/ <-- interesting idea |
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| 13:47.09 | L0cMini9 | hi |
| 13:47.23 | L0cMini9 | will maemo5 be available on n8x0 ? |
| 13:47.52 | zerojay | No |
| 13:48.06 | zerojay | It doesn't have the hardware to support it. |
| 13:48.20 | L0cMini9 | :( |
| 13:48.36 | L0cMini9 | [15:47:52] zerojay | No â akiniemi |
| 13:48.42 | L0cMini9 | ops |
| 13:48.44 | L0cMini9 | sry |
| 13:56.37 | *** join/#maemo madhav (n=Administ@122.172.43.84) |
| 13:57.53 | *** topic/#maemo by Khertanwantan900 -> Welcome to #maemo | N900 and Maemo 5 announced @ http://maemo.nokia.com | http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Maemo Summit 2009: Call for Content Now Open! -> http://tinyurl.com/mvbcdy | Maemo Summit 2009: Registration now open - http://tinyurl.com/lumhbk | Maemo 5 will not be available for n8x0 |
| 13:58.09 | *** join/#maemo AD-N770 (n=jep@24.Red-80-26-22.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 13:58.32 | Khertanwantan900 | this is the seventh or eighth time i read this question |
| 13:58.48 | javispedro | will maemo5 be available for the 770? |
| 13:59.18 | *** topic/#maemo by Khertanwantan900 -> Welcome to #maemo | N900 and Maemo 5 announced @ http://maemo.nokia.com | http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Maemo Summit 2009: Call for Content Now Open! -> http://tinyurl.com/mvbcdy | Maemo Summit 2009: Registration now open - http://tinyurl.com/lumhbk | Maemo 5 will not be available for 770/n8x0/iPhone |
| 13:59.23 | Khertanwantan900 | :) |
| 14:00.07 | javispedro | will Maemo5 be available for my 110V-powered toaster? |
| 14:00.23 | javispedro | heh, ok, I'll stop. |
| 14:00.25 | Khertanwantan900 | javispedro: yes ... |
| 14:00.31 | pupnik | nokia owes me maemo5 on my psion too :) |
| 14:00.38 | VDVsx | I want it on my fridge !!!! |
| 14:00.40 | Khertanwantan900 | if it s a beagle board powered |
| 14:00.46 | Khertanwantan900 | toaster of course |
| 14:01.00 | *** join/#maemo tonikitoo (n=tonikito@189.2.128.130) |
| 14:01.13 | Khertanwantan900 | but i don't think the cylon toaster cpu is compatible |
| 14:01.17 | Khertanwantan900 | :) |
| 14:01.36 | javispedro | Maemo5 is only available in gadgets with the Apple^WN900 sticker, damnit. |
| 14:01.54 | Razumihin | what about my cars ECU-unit? |
| 14:03.24 | *** join/#maemo fiferboy_ (n=quassel@216.185.81.34) |
| 14:04.41 | *** join/#maemo dl9pf (n=dl9pf@opensuse/member/dl9pf) |
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| 14:14.43 | Meizirkki | muhaha |
| 14:14.43 | Meizirkki | i |
| 14:14.52 | Meizirkki | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db7pKjUrNXQ |
| 14:15.05 | Meizirkki | probably someone posted that already, but... |
| 14:17.32 | VDVsx | ah, the iPhone killer :P |
| 14:18.12 | *** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 14:18.36 | Meizirkki | ^ I don't like apples strategies, but i would't shoot an iPhone |
| 14:19.38 | ziyourenxiang | what a sad individual |
| 14:19.45 | ziyourenxiang | music's not bad though |
| 14:20.18 | lbt | Meizirkki: now if it had been a Nokia in your breast pocket you'd have lived... |
| 14:21.11 | *** join/#maemo n6pfk (n=mike@96.238.186.191) |
| 14:24.26 | javispedro | every destroyed gadget makes me sad :( |
| 14:25.31 | Khertanwantan900 | does the diablo and chinook promoter is broken ? |
| 14:26.43 | aol_ | iPhone is not bulletproof?! |
| 14:27.40 | qwerty12_N810 | No, Apple refused an application in its app store that would have made it so |
| 14:27.50 | aol_ | there's an app for that |
| 14:27.53 | javispedro | dman, I can't see the part where he burns it. |
| 14:27.57 | javispedro | too hard core. |
| 14:28.10 | javispedro | :'( poor iphone |
| 14:28.35 | X-Fade | Khertanwantan900: No? |
| 14:29.51 | VDVsx | javispedro, just for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg1ckCkm8YI ;) |
| 14:30.04 | Khertanwantan900 | sorry X-Fade just my network which is extremelly slow |
| 14:30.35 | aol_ | but yeah music on the video rules, arcade fire rulz :) |
| 14:30.44 | Khertanwantan900 | if you didn't read my sentence 5 hours ago ... thanks again for the maemo web builder assistant ... |
| 14:31.05 | X-Fade | Khertanwantan900: I did. Thanks ;) |
| 14:32.38 | *** join/#maemo jgoss (n=josh@unaffiliated/jgoss) |
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| 14:34.17 | javispedro | VDVsx, that guy is _evil_. ;) |
| 14:34.49 | VDVsx | javispedro, looks a nice fellow ;) |
| 14:35.46 | VDVsx | s/looks/seems/ |
| 14:36.40 | thopiekar | VDVsx: haha nice clip.. |
| 14:37.06 | thopiekar | hopefully he won't do that with a brandnew N900 :D |
| 14:37.09 | javispedro | I wonder what would happen if he tried to blend his evil blending tool. |
| 14:38.46 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=rsalveti@200.184.118.130) |
| 14:38.48 | VDVsx | thopiekar, I wouldn't doubt ;) |
| 14:39.07 | thopiekar | omg o.O' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pnonj_84Ju4&NR=1 |
| 14:41.16 | thopiekar | lol someone is selling N900 domains on ebay for 50k⬠=D |
| 14:41.32 | thopiekar | stupid capitalistic world |
| 14:42.04 | wazd | maemo.com, anyone? :) |
| 14:42.42 | *** join/#maemo tank-man (i=1000@174.6.38.217) |
| 14:42.55 | VDVsx | thopiekar, my favorite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9V-goCaua0 |
| 14:43.51 | wazd | oh, nokia already stolen it :D |
| 14:43.53 | *** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:44.05 | wazd | maemo.ru is under random guy btw |
| 14:44.20 | wazd | too bad for him that maemo is a tm :) |
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| 14:44.28 | thopiekar | VDVsx: =D |
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| 14:48.19 | javispedro | bah, here some idiot already registered n900.es yesterday. |
| 14:48.34 | javispedro | a pity it's not me the one spamming it ;P |
| 14:49.17 | *** part/#maemo fr01b (n=fr@212.30.2.18) |
| 14:49.31 | VDVsx | maemo.pt and n900.pt still available ;) |
| 14:50.19 | *** join/#maemo eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-14-133.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 14:50.20 | ShellEvil | http://www.n900.co.uk/ another hijacker. |
| 14:50.52 | *** join/#maemo setanta (n=setanta@200.184.118.130) |
| 14:50.57 | wazd | maemo.su is free :P |
| 14:51.09 | X-Fade | I'm sure he all thanks you for the link love :) |
| 14:51.14 | *** join/#maemo vladovg (n=vladooo@amur2.ddns-lan.lom.ekk.bg) |
| 14:51.15 | jeremiah | X-Fade: pong - Will do! |
| 14:51.26 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (n=timeless@88.115.8.36) |
| 14:51.27 | beatpanic | n900.it free! ;) |
| 14:51.41 | X-Fade | jeremiah: Can you only make a list? Not do the actual removal yet? |
| 14:51.49 | zerojay | I'm still pissed i couldn't get error.io. :( |
| 14:51.50 | jeremiah | X-Fade: Yes, I'll just make a litst |
| 14:51.56 | wazd | maemo.me :D |
| 14:51.57 | jeremiah | s/litst/list |
| 14:52.25 | jeremiah | n900.se free! |
| 14:52.26 | X-Fade | jeremiah: Great thanks. I already removed an older version of zlib yesterday. |
| 14:52.34 | jeremiah | X-Fade: Ah okay. |
| 14:53.07 | jeremiah | I'll start the list now. Put it on the wiki somewhere . . . |
| 14:53.09 | wazd | maemo.ws is free |
| 14:53.37 | X-Fade | jeremiah: Already started to hate my automated porting run for libs ;) |
| 14:53.49 | wazd | I wonder if it's legal to make maemo subdomains |
| 14:53.49 | *** join/#maemo eocanha (n=eocanha@130.152.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 14:53.58 | wazd | like maemo.zhil.in for example |
| 14:55.32 | jeremiah | X-Fade: :] |
| 14:55.58 | jeremiah | http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_build_notes << I'll put the list of libs with lower version there (bottom of the page) |
| 14:55.58 | wazd | nokian900.org - $300.000 :D |
| 14:56.07 | wazd | jezuzchrist :D |
| 14:56.09 | jeremiah | 300 Bucks! Pirates |
| 14:57.54 | X-Fade | jeremiah: I'm going to create a pre-build check to prevent these entering the builder. |
| 14:58.48 | wazd | damn, I like maemo.nokia.com design so much, wish I had such 3D skills :( |
| 14:58.55 | *** join/#maemo jnettlet (n=jnettlet@216-19-186-197.dyn.novuscom.net) |
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| 15:02.14 | VDVsx | wazd, you can always learn :) |
| 15:02.56 | wazd | VDVsx: well, I have so much stuff to do, that I barely have time to sleep :) |
| 15:03.20 | VDVsx | hehe |
| 15:03.21 | ShellEvil | 3d design is pretty much irrelevant in some ways. |
| 15:03.34 | ShellEvil | In that you can't get the parts to make your own anyway. |
| 15:03.37 | wazd | VDVsx: I can't even finish with Blue Maemo, daywork blows my mind :( |
| 15:03.52 | VDVsx | wazd, nop |
| 15:04.01 | VDVsx | *np |
| 15:04.31 | wazd | VDVsx: and OMWeather needs to be polished for the release :) |
| 15:05.50 | VDVsx | wazd, yeah, OM has priority, I'm waiting some info about maemo5 BT system yet, so not a rush ;) |
| 15:05.59 | *** join/#maemo guax (n=guaxinim@unaffiliated/guaxinim) |
| 15:06.41 | guax | hello, i am almost buying a n810, can someone says me if it worth it? |
| 15:07.12 | _berto_ | guax: depends on your needs/preferences, for me it's a great device |
| 15:07.18 | _berto_ | guax: i use it everyday |
| 15:07.48 | guax | battery life. how it does? i was thinking in something to watch internet when a notebook is too large and watch videos |
| 15:08.36 | _berto_ | i don't use it to watch videos a lot, but I tend to recharge it every 2-3 days |
| 15:09.44 | ShellEvil | I'd wait a bit - it's quite plausible that n810 will drop in price when 900 released |
| 15:10.04 | _berto_ | what's the price of the n810 now anyway |
| 15:10.06 | _berto_ | ? |
| 15:10.38 | guax | i will pay about $350 |
| 15:10.45 | guax | for a new one in brazil |
| 15:11.06 | _berto_ | USD or BRL ? :) |
| 15:11.12 | guax | 350 USD |
| 15:11.27 | guax | i made a conversion =P |
| 15:11.29 | _berto_ | I thought it would be cheaper by now |
| 15:12.19 | _berto_ | I think I paid 400-something EUR a year and a half ago |
| 15:13.17 | guax | does it have a good integrated google calendar agenda? |
| 15:15.14 | thopiekar | VDVsx: found another great one :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx4QgK_xEfE&feature=channel |
| 15:15.34 | _berto_ | guax: no built-in agenda |
| 15:15.50 | guax | if i can install a good one, thats not the problem =P |
| 15:16.08 | _berto_ | I never used one :) |
| 15:16.16 | till- | my father got a new n810 from amazon for around 195 euro some month ago |
| 15:16.45 | _berto_ | 350 USD is around 240 EUR |
| 15:16.47 | *** join/#maemo danilocesar (n=danilo@200.184.118.130) |
| 15:17.10 | _berto_ | the n800 is probably much cheaper if you can find one |
| 15:17.13 | till- | interesting, thats the current price at amazon |
| 15:17.18 | _berto_ | but the keyboard in the n810 is a must for me |
| 15:18.01 | guax | if i buy one in amazon the import tax will make it cost 292 USD |
| 15:18.04 | guax | oops, euro |
| 15:18.08 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gateway.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 15:18.17 | _berto_ | guax: and probably with an english keyboard ;) |
| 15:18.23 | guax | yeap |
| 15:18.25 | till- | is there no amazon in brazil? |
| 15:18.37 | till- | or something similar? |
| 15:18.58 | guax | thats where im buying it from |
| 15:18.59 | _berto_ | but do amazon ship electronic devices overseas? |
| 15:19.13 | _berto_ | because the tablets are always much cheaper there than in europe |
| 15:19.56 | till- | i got my n800 two years ago from ebay, 195 euro |
| 15:20.37 | VDVsx | thopiekar, heheh |
| 15:20.46 | thopiekar | :D |
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| 15:31.50 | Khertanwantan900 | bye ... |
| 15:31.50 | *** part/#maemo Khertanwantan900 (n=bhervier@nax2.naxos-fr.net) |
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| 15:44.52 | thux | any guess how expensive n900 will be? |
| 15:44.58 | jeremiah | 500 US |
| 15:45.06 | jeremiah | Sorry, 550 Euros |
| 15:45.23 | X-Fade | thux: Depends on where you are. |
| 15:45.28 | GAN800 | 500 is the announced price, actually. |
| 15:45.45 | X-Fade | Yeah, but that is before operator subsidies. |
| 15:45.47 | aol_ | nokia.de had/has it for 599 EUR incl. VAT |
| 15:46.17 | *** join/#maemo pH5 (n=ph5@e178219170.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:46.19 | aol_ | I guess many of us don't buy their phones with contract |
| 15:46.44 | X-Fade | aol_: I always do because then they are free/almost free. |
| 15:46.52 | aol_ | "free" |
| 15:47.00 | jeremiah | In sweden it is going for 6,295.00 SEK |
| 15:47.02 | jrocha | hi, anyone here from the pymaemo team? |
| 15:47.11 | thux | doesn't sound too bad |
| 15:47.16 | aol_ | X-Fade: you must also calculate how much the contract is |
| 15:47.35 | X-Fade | aol_: Sure, but a sim only contract isn't much cheaper. |
| 15:47.44 | aol_ | well atleast for me it is |
| 15:47.57 | aol_ | but again, I'm in Finland so ... |
| 15:48.09 | jeremiah | Wow, in Sweden they are going to sell a white version too. |
| 15:48.14 | jeremiah | Didn't know there was one |
| 15:48.28 | wazd | jeremiah: link?) |
| 15:48.32 | X-Fade | jeremiah: Are you sure you aren't looking at an N97? :) |
| 15:48.38 | wazd | jeremiah: e900? :P |
| 15:48.49 | jeremiah | http://shop.nokia.se/nokia-se/product.aspx?sku=4002551&cp=localbuynow&pp=N97 |
| 15:48.55 | aol_ | sim only you pay only two-tree euros monthly + the data plan ... so maybe 20eur/month with flatrate ... then choose any phone you like |
| 15:48.56 | jeremiah | oh sorry |
| 15:48.59 | X-Fade | jeremiah: as I said ;) |
| 15:49.01 | jeremiah | That was the N97 |
| 15:49.20 | jeremiah | :] |
| 15:49.20 | *** part/#maemo jukey (n=jukey@kamiserver.de) |
| 15:49.20 | jeremiah | But I clicked on the maemo, weird |
| 15:49.26 | jeremiah | http://www.nokia.se/hitta-produkter/produkter/nokia-n900 |
| 15:49.49 | jeremiah | takes you to the N97 |
| 15:50.04 | jeremiah | Bait and switch |
| 15:50.18 | *** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=CBabbage@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 15:50.31 | wazd | .ru site still silent bout n900 :) |
| 15:53.11 | *** join/#maemo jadams (n=jadams@68.185.240.176) |
| 15:54.16 | *** join/#maemo Andy80 (n=andy80@237.52.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 15:56.41 | VDVsx | jrocha, lizardo is the boss :), not here atm |
| 15:59.17 | *** join/#maemo csaavedra (n=claudio@91.117.99.155) |
| 15:59.40 | *** join/#maemo bbns (n=chatzill@209.133.78.108) |
| 16:01.17 | jrocha | VDVsx, I know that's why I asked :) |
| 16:01.24 | jrocha | VDVsx, but thanks |
| 16:02.32 | GeneralAntilles | Christ |
| 16:02.39 | GeneralAntilles | rcadden wants to argue with my about my corrections. |
| 16:02.58 | zerojay | ? |
| 16:03.18 | GeneralAntilles | zerojay, the 10 awesome things article from that "guru". |
| 16:03.35 | GeneralAntilles | "Thanks for the corrections. However, these seem to contradict what I found on maemo.nokia.com. If you go there, you'll see that under browser, it highlights the Mozilla browser, and under Email it specifically mentions Nokia Messaging as the email client. I'll ping Nokia to get official clarification, though it's definitely confusing." |
| 16:03.58 | javispedro | ......... |
| 16:04.01 | *** join/#maemo Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 16:04.03 | javispedro | [sigh] |
| 16:04.10 | zerojay | Lol |
| 16:04.34 | qwerty12_N810 | "so it's no surprise that we sort of discovered these nuggets of gold on our own." |
| 16:04.39 | qwerty12_N810 | Right. |
| 16:05.43 | javispedro | is becoming mainstream going to be fun or tedious? place your bets, ladies and gentleman. |
| 16:05.43 | GeneralAntilles | Tedious. |
| 16:05.43 | zerojay | Gott love the "guru" |
| 16:05.43 | zerojay | +A |
| 16:05.43 | GeneralAntilles | Especially since it seems I wont even be able to participate in the first stage. :rolleyes: |
| 16:06.00 | GeneralAntilles | finds he's no less bitter about things this morning. |
| 16:06.27 | zerojay | I'll save the bitter for the release. |
| 16:06.49 | zerojay | Wasn't the dev program late for the n810? |
| 16:06.56 | zerojay | A month or two? |
| 16:07.09 | GeneralAntilles | Announcement was in August, ship was in November |
| 16:07.20 | GeneralAntilles | Dev program was September/October-ish. |
| 16:07.24 | javispedro | I love how maemo-guru uses the maemo.org logo. |
| 16:08.34 | javispedro | "rather than the Microb browser weâre used to on previous editions of Maemo, Nokia was smart enough to put a Mozilla browser on board". yes, this gets a bit on the nerves. |
| 16:09.03 | zerojay | Ugh |
| 16:09.31 | javispedro | also, he continually mentions "older versions of Maemo5" |
| 16:09.56 | GeneralAntilles | and "Maemo5" |
| 16:10.04 | Andy80 | GeneralAntilles: let's hope to have news about developers discount soon |
| 16:10.43 | GeneralAntilles | Let's hope we have something. |
| 16:10.53 | GeneralAntilles | I'm going to turn into zerojay-from-6-month-ago soon. |
| 16:11.26 | zerojay | Haha |
| 16:12.06 | Andy80 | GeneralAntilles: why? |
| 16:12.11 | GeneralAntilles | Andy80, because I'm tired. |
| 16:12.37 | Andy80 | GeneralAntilles: tired of what :) ? of waiting? |
| 16:12.43 | GeneralAntilles | Everything. |
| 16:12.49 | *** join/#maemo lizardo (n=lizardo@189.2.128.130) |
| 16:12.54 | GeneralAntilles | Nokia, the platform, the waiting, the delays, the screw ups, the attitudes. |
| 16:13.08 | *** join/#maemo zap (n=zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net) |
| 16:13.30 | Andy80 | this time it doesn't look like we had any delays... |
| 16:13.48 | *** join/#maemo BluesLee (n=malik197@ip-62-143-233-203.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 16:13.52 | GeneralAntilles | Andy80, the whole reason they canned Elephanta was to move Fremantle up by about 6 months. |
| 16:14.01 | GeneralAntilles | Now, somehow, we're back on the original schedule. |
| 16:14.18 | zerojay | I dont know about Gen, but it sometimes feels like we're running in mud waist deep. |
| 16:14.24 | Andy80 | GeneralAntilles: uhmm... sorry, don't know about "Elephanta" :( |
| 16:14.42 | GeneralAntilles | Andy80, that was the planned Maemo release for the end of 2008. |
| 16:14.51 | GeneralAntilles | To run on OMAP3 hardwase and be architecturally similar to Diablo. |
| 16:15.02 | GeneralAntilles | Which was cancelled in favor of advancing Fremantle by about half a year. |
| 16:15.24 | Andy80 | GeneralAntilles: and... aren't you happy with this? |
| 16:15.41 | Andy80 | I do prefer they make Fremantle to advance |
| 16:15.43 | BluesLee | GeneralAntilles: is Fremantle far away from the other maemo distros? |
| 16:16.21 | GeneralAntilles | Andy80, problem is, that advanced ship date would've been around June. |
| 16:16.25 | GeneralAntilles | Now it's October |
| 16:16.30 | GeneralAntilles | Which puts us right back where we started. |
| 16:16.32 | GeneralAntilles | Thus, delays. |
| 16:16.38 | GeneralAntilles | BluesLee, Fremantle is a big upgrade over Diablo. |
| 16:16.54 | X-Fade | s/big/massive/ |
| 16:18.03 | BluesLee | GeneralAntilles: what about the freely available apps on maemo.org, will they also run on Fremantle or do they need to be re-compiled? |
| 16:18.18 | GeneralAntilles | BluesLee, a lot of them have already been recompiled. |
| 16:19.09 | zerojay | And adapted to the fremantle ui. |
| 16:19.18 | BluesLee | GeneralAntilles: okay, i think the n900 is the right device for me (coming from zaurus, openmoko) |
| 16:20.05 | BluesLee | october isnt so far away:-) |
| 16:20.39 | X-Fade | It is too soon! :) |
| 16:20.48 | pupnik_ | hehe |
| 16:20.51 | zerojay | General, maybe they'll hand out boxes at summit. |
| 16:21.04 | BluesLee | X-Fade: you mean that it is not ready? |
| 16:21.15 | GeneralAntilles | zerojay, who cares? |
| 16:21.21 | GeneralAntilles | I wont even be able to properly use the thing. |
| 16:21.22 | X-Fade | BluesLee: I mean that I still need to do a lot ;) |
| 16:21.49 | BluesLee | X-Fade: what are you doing in detail? |
| 16:22.34 | BluesLee | X-Fade: sorry, i am new to this channel and i dont know anything about the community structure, is there a kind of "who-is-who"? |
| 16:22.51 | X-Fade | BluesLee: Making sure that the 3rd party apps that end up in Extras work without problems basically ;) |
| 16:23.02 | zerojay | Heh.. Not really. |
| 16:23.50 | BluesLee | X-Fade: i see |
| 16:24.12 | X-Fade | Just kidding about the too soon of course. |
| 16:24.25 | X-Fade | Although now _we_ as a community have a deadline too! |
| 16:24.48 | X-Fade | In making sure the Fremantle apps are ready for the first consumers. |
| 16:24.52 | zerojay | If their ip address ends in .fi, important. ;) |
| 16:25.09 | zerojay | Blindly. |
| 16:26.09 | javispedro | without testing on device. good luck :) |
| 16:26.22 | BluesLee | hehe |
| 16:26.29 | X-Fade | javispedro: Well, yeah as ready as we can be. |
| 16:28.05 | *** join/#maemo DarwinSurvivor (n=DarwinSu@142.232.134.9) |
| 16:37.05 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@93.82.67.95) |
| 16:41.24 | GeneralAntilles | Idiot. |
| 16:41.34 | X-Fade | lol ;) |
| 16:41.35 | GeneralAntilles | His "corrections" just reveal yet more ignorance and idiocy. |
| 16:41.41 | X-Fade | Where did that come from? |
| 16:42.06 | Macer | hm |
| 16:42.09 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.maemo-guru.com/2009/08/10-awesome-features-of-maemo5/ |
| 16:42.16 | GeneralAntilles | The aside about MicroB. |
| 16:42.20 | *** join/#maemo orangey (n=orangey@CPE0014bfa7fbdb-CM0011ae8bb9f6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 16:42.24 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Seems to be down for me. |
| 16:42.27 | orangey | hey all! |
| 16:42.29 | qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: "Nokia-branded". ROFL. |
| 16:42.43 | Sho_ | Anyone remember the name(s) of the other Nokia phone(s) that had the stand around the camera like on the N900? |
| 16:42.50 | orangey | any idea if one can use syncevolution to sync seqretary? |
| 16:42.54 | orangey | or if seqretary can take ICS? |
| 16:43.13 | GeneralAntilles | N86 |
| 16:43.13 | Sho_ | ah, the N86 8MP |
| 16:43.18 | Sho_ | thanks GeneralAntilles |
| 16:43.58 | zerojay | Picard facepalm |
| 16:45.28 | orangey | ? |
| 16:45.35 | GeneralAntilles | hits the road. |
| 16:45.36 | GeneralAntilles | Later, all. |
| 16:45.49 | Stskeeps | enjoy |
| 16:50.36 | *** join/#maemo GAN800 (n=ryan@32.161.196.88) |
| 16:51.53 | ShadowJK | shakes his head at tmo |
| 16:54.02 | orangey | hmm. |
| 16:54.10 | orangey | can syncevolution sync with a gpe calendar? |
| 16:55.06 | andre__ | afaik gpe does not use a evolution database? |
| 16:55.21 | andre__ | hence i'd say no. not sure, though |
| 16:56.03 | *** join/#maemo vladooo (n=vladooo@91.139.148.54) |
| 16:56.50 | *** join/#maemo wirelessdreamer (n=anderson@chrobd01.vailsys.com) |
| 17:06.33 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (i=c336e713@SecuraBit/listener/crashanddie) |
| 17:09.02 | *** join/#maemo Khertan_n810 (i=507da5b6@gateway/web/freenode/x-qhknqrqbawatdlvt) |
| 17:09.16 | Khertan_n810 | Hi again |
| 17:09.35 | Khertan_n810 | did you see a way to optimize this things : http://pastebin.com/m7072c62f |
| 17:10.02 | Khertan_n810 | it s pretty slow on the nit |
| 17:10.04 | *** join/#maemo guest_007 (n=guest@195.24.76.208) |
| 17:10.37 | lcuk | Khertan_n810, if you use the sin/cos values very often |
| 17:10.40 | guest_007 | hi, does pidgin 2.5.8 support icq? cant get it work |
| 17:10.43 | Khertan_n810 | ~ping |
| 17:10.44 | infobot | ~pong |
| 17:10.51 | *** part/#maemo horizon (i=horizon@a.2.xcodes.de) |
| 17:10.52 | lcuk | build and store an array of them for each degree |
| 17:10.58 | lcuk | ie sinarray(360) |
| 17:11.09 | *** join/#maemo dododomo (n=alpha@adsl-68-125-52-47.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 17:11.14 | Khertan_n810 | it use it very often |
| 17:11.22 | lcuk | (you only need 1/8 of a circle in reality..) |
| 17:11.38 | lcuk | but thats the principle optimization technique for things like that |
| 17:11.39 | Khertan_n810 | yep |
| 17:11.55 | Khertan_n810 | it s a good idea i will try |
| 17:12.03 | lcuk | :) |
| 17:12.20 | guest_007 | anyone use pidgin with icq? |
| 17:12.26 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N810 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:13.24 | slonopotamus | guest_007, yep, on drsktop |
| 17:13.54 | slonopotamus | s/r/e/ |
| 17:14.01 | guest_007 | slonopotamus: i thought that it's a maemo channel |
| 17:14.32 | guest_007 | s/./duck-/ |
| 17:19.26 | crashanddie | guest_007: the channel can be of whatever it wants, the matter of fact is that this still is IRC, so off-topic is the only recurrent topic ;) |
| 17:22.37 | *** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@ANantes-252-1-31-147.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:22.39 | guest_007 | Anyone heard about N900 run times? It uses the same battery with bigger cpu |
| 17:23.30 | guest_007 | Joystick like in sony PS and N900 is the best console ) |
| 17:24.36 | Jaffa | af'noon |
| 17:25.04 | ShellEvil | 'bigger CPU' can be misleading. |
| 17:25.21 | orangey | yeah |
| 17:25.27 | ShellEvil | A faster CPU - if not used 100% - in some cases may be more energy efficient than a slower CPU going 100% |
| 17:25.29 | orangey | best to think of it as a car the same size that goes faster |
| 17:25.36 | andre__ | anybody knows if tim has a jabber account? if so, can some one /msg the ID? |
| 17:25.46 | andre__ | email fails badly today :-( |
| 17:25.51 | *** part/#maemo orangey (n=orangey@CPE0014bfa7fbdb-CM0011ae8bb9f6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 17:29.26 | guest_007 | will skype be video? |
| 17:30.06 | ShellEvil | Will it have smell? |
| 17:30.27 | guest_007 | hmm. will it be wet? |
| 17:30.31 | Jaffa | andre__: I'm not aware of one. His outbound emails are really badly formed (bad envelope and no return-path) so my box had been treating them as mailer-daemon errors |
| 17:30.50 | pupnik_ | advanced backlight control should replace brightness/volume and allow setting dimming settings |
| 17:31.26 | andre__ | Jaffa, oh... and I cannot send any email to him, I get a 550. |
| 17:31.30 | Jaffa | wishes Modest worked more nicely with gmail (e.g. delete , archive, search and spam) |
| 17:32.13 | Jaffa | Forking Modest is probably not high on my todo list |
| 17:34.41 | *** join/#maemo Woolly (n=Woolly@cpc1-broo2-0-0-cust118.renf.cable.ntl.com) |
| 17:34.47 | Woolly | what's crackin |
| 17:34.53 | VDVsx | andre__, use facebook :P lolol |
| 17:35.16 | andre__ | VDVsx, laugh at me, but that's what i did already yesterday to contact him. |
| 17:35.18 | *** join/#maemo Guest88941 (n=Laser@88-96-7-158.dsl.zen.co.uk) |
| 17:35.34 | VDVsx | andre__, he did the same to contact me ;) |
| 17:35.41 | andre__ | haha |
| 17:35.58 | andre__ | VDVsx, thanks, that makes me feel like i'm not the only idiot here :-P |
| 17:36.07 | VDVsx | lolol |
| 17:37.54 | VDVsx | Jaffa, modest is awesome ;) |
| 17:38.43 | Stskeeps | ponders idly if 'i'm never going back' in n900 video refers to symbian or iphone ;p |
| 17:39.05 | *** join/#maemo setanta (n=setanta@200.184.118.130) |
| 17:40.49 | Woolly | it's busy in here tonight |
| 17:41.00 | *** join/#maemo `0660 (n=olli@ppp59-167-57-51.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net) |
| 17:43.39 | crashanddie | Woolly: I hope that's ironic |
| 17:43.50 | Woolly | crashanddie: indeed :) |
| 17:45.42 | *** join/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host86-171-220-65.range86-171.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:45.50 | *** join/#maemo johnsq (n=therippe@252.60.broadband3.iol.cz) |
| 17:46.02 | johnsq | Hu |
| 17:47.36 | *** join/#maemo setanta (n=setanta@200.184.118.130) |
| 17:50.30 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (n=magao@84.79.25.26) |
| 17:57.52 | *** join/#maemo mlpug (n=mlpug@a88-115-164-40.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:58.14 | gomiam | erm... the ignorant one is back... Maemo 5 supports multitouch, right? |
| 17:58.34 | Stskeeps | two is multi.. |
| 17:58.34 | Stskeeps | >P |
| 17:58.51 | gomiam | Stskeeps: does the N900 have a multitouch screen? |
| 18:00.22 | simula | nope |
| 18:01.54 | gomiam | oh |
| 18:02.45 | slonopotamus | two != multi |
| 18:03.11 | Stskeeps | multitasking is doing one than one task at a time.. |
| 18:03.45 | slonopotamus | yeah, but you can have N outstanding tasks |
| 18:03.48 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N810 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:04.11 | slonopotamus | not 2 :) |
| 18:04.54 | Stskeeps | sure, but there's a limit to how many fingertips you can fit on a iphone ;) |
| 18:04.55 | guest_007 | I filled all my internal memory space. How to extend it with /media/mmc2 ? |
| 18:05.17 | ShellEvil | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15185 |
| 18:05.18 | ShellEvil | oops |
| 18:05.21 | ShellEvil | nsfw |
| 18:05.26 | guest_007 | aah your porn! |
| 18:05.26 | ShellEvil | sorry - mischan |
| 18:06.18 | slonopotamus | guerby, find ~ -name *porn* -exec mv {} /media/mmc1 \; |
| 18:06.36 | slonopotamus | s/guerby/guest_007/ |
| 18:06.59 | guest_007 | better -type porn |
| 18:07.07 | slonopotamus | true |
| 18:07.35 | slonopotamus | ShellEvil, -.- |
| 18:07.37 | guest_007 | onyone tryed encrypted root fs? :) |
| 18:08.49 | *** join/#maemo AltC (n=AltC@84.92.70.37) |
| 18:11.08 | *** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-darl3-0-0-cust663.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 18:16.41 | *** part/#maemo Guest88941 (n=Laser@88-96-7-158.dsl.zen.co.uk) |
| 18:21.29 | esaym153 | howdy |
| 18:21.49 | esaym153 | are there any other mapping programs for the n810? The default one seems to be missing alot of roads.... |
| 18:22.32 | *** join/#maemo wirelessdreamer (n=anderson@chrobd01.vailsys.com) |
| 18:22.52 | wiretapped | esaym153: use maemo mapper |
| 18:22.58 | wiretapped | it can use several different map sources |
| 18:23.12 | esaym153 | is that installed by default? |
| 18:23.16 | wiretapped | no |
| 18:23.22 | wiretapped | it is in maemo-extras though |
| 18:23.33 | esaym153 | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/maemo-mapper/? |
| 18:23.44 | wiretapped | yeah, but you should install it thru maemo extras |
| 18:23.54 | wiretapped | in your application manager, enable that repo if you haven't already |
| 18:24.17 | esaym153 | ok, so then where to get better maps? Pay money? lol |
| 18:24.39 | wiretapped | maemo mapper uses google, open street map, microsoft maps, and others |
| 18:24.41 | wiretapped | all free |
| 18:25.01 | alex-weej | anyone know roughly when n900 is going on sale in UK? my phone died today and i want either an android phone or maemo 5 but i don't wanna be waiting months |
| 18:25.04 | esaym153 | google and open street maps require internet connection right? |
| 18:25.05 | wiretapped | they're bitmaps though, unlike the builtin maps program which has vectors... |
| 18:25.13 | andre__ | alex-weej, october |
| 18:25.59 | alex-weej | andre__: thanks! |
| 18:26.56 | andre__ | esaym153, not if you download those map parts you will need with maemo mapper first. |
| 18:27.36 | esaym153 | andre__: yea I am seeing: http://code.google.com/p/opencitymap/ |
| 18:28.50 | andre__ | esaym153, that looks a bit... outdated. |
| 18:28.57 | esaym153 | hmm |
| 18:29.04 | esaym153 | looks for online tutorial... |
| 18:29.12 | andre__ | esaym153, what is your issue with maemo mapper? |
| 18:29.15 | andre__ | why don't you try it? |
| 18:29.38 | wiretapped | esaym153: maemo mapper can auto-download all the map tiles in an area or along a given route |
| 18:29.40 | esaym153 | andre__: you mean just install it and go for it? |
| 18:29.51 | esaym153 | wiretapped: amazing! |
| 18:30.01 | wiretapped | :) |
| 18:30.05 | esaym153 | delete default maps and gets after it |
| 18:30.18 | andre__ | esaym153, i don't know why you continue searching for apps without trying what's available in maemo already |
| 18:30.31 | *** join/#maemo vladovg (n=vladooo@91.139.148.54) |
| 18:30.32 | esaym153 | hmm think I will scp the maps before I delete them... |
| 18:30.38 | *** join/#maemo jpereira (n=jpereira@unaffiliated/jpereira) |
| 18:30.42 | wiretapped | good call |
| 18:30.48 | esaym153 | andre__: just asking questions so I don't waste time |
| 18:31.04 | esaym153 | I was going to check to forums, but I need to leave in 30 minutes.. |
| 18:31.07 | esaym153 | rofl |
| 18:31.23 | *** join/#maemo trofi (n=slyfox@93.84.104.245) |
| 18:31.30 | wiretapped | if you're in a hurry you should get off the floor |
| 18:31.52 | Stskeeps | i wonder who'll be the first insane people to port Diablo to N900. |
| 18:33.33 | ShellEvil | I will note that the google TOS do not permit downloading and caching. |
| 18:33.34 | ShellEvil | But... |
| 18:37.04 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (n=fuchs@f048172106.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:37.20 | wiretapped | ShellEvil: oh noes |
| 18:37.59 | Stskeeps | just use OSM |
| 18:37.59 | Stskeeps | >P |
| 18:38.16 | ShadowJK | diablo port to N900 sounds awesome ;) |
| 18:39.21 | lcuk | it doesnt sound too bad actually. would be a lot of work just to keep "maemo-select-location" lol |
| 18:39.27 | *** join/#maemo amaurymedeiros (n=amaury@150.165.63.86) |
| 18:39.56 | *** join/#maemo caotic (n=caotic@189.183.26.81) |
| 18:40.40 | wiretapped | OSM is awesome; there was a good interview with Steve Coast about it a few weeks ago on floss weekly: http://www.twit.tv/floss81 |
| 18:40.54 | ShellEvil | OSM is indeed awesome. |
| 18:41.05 | ShellEvil | The progress year by year is astounding. |
| 18:41.20 | wiretapped | OSM is much more awesome in the US now that they have tiger data |
| 18:41.31 | ShellEvil | Very debatably awesome. |
| 18:41.38 | ShellEvil | The tiger data in many ways is shit. |
| 18:41.48 | ShellEvil | It's complete - but it's got lots of errors. |
| 18:42.02 | johnsq | You you look if your girl friend is in bikini :) |
| 18:42.12 | wiretapped | yeah sometimes something is worse than nothing, but generally not |
| 18:42.16 | aol_ | anybody done OSM tile maps to their apps ? |
| 18:42.19 | ShellEvil | It is generally topologically accurate - the right roads are there - connected in the right ways. |
| 18:42.20 | aol_ | anybody here I mean |
| 18:42.30 | ShellEvil | But they can be _wierdly_ distorted. |
| 18:42.49 | ShellEvil | And until recently the freeway network was _totally_ broken. It's now only slightly broken. |
| 18:42.54 | ShadowJK | Maybe they aren't WGS84 |
| 18:43.03 | ShellEvil | ShadowJK: no - nothing like that. |
| 18:43.10 | ShellEvil | ShadowJK: take an accurate streetmap. |
| 18:43.24 | ShellEvil | ShadowJK: now randomly bend it and twist it into wierd shapes. |
| 18:43.29 | ShadowJK | hm :) |
| 18:43.34 | ShellEvil | You now have tiger in some areas. |
| 18:43.39 | ShadowJK | I for one wouldn't mind paying for an accurate map |
| 18:43.40 | ShadowJK | but nobody has one |
| 18:44.12 | ShellEvil | I suspect some of it was taken manually - with rough positions - and only intended to be topologically acurate - not actually accurate positions. |
| 18:44.15 | ShadowJK | Nokia Maps and Wayfinder disagree by about a kilometre in worst case when I used both last week :) |
| 18:44.36 | wiretapped | as discussed in floss81, nobody has one with reasonable license terms. Lots of people will sell you maps though :) |
| 18:44.53 | ShellEvil | I was working on some housing in el-paso. (correcting tiger to yahoo imagery) - the errors are _wierd_. |
| 18:45.19 | ShadowJK | What's amusing is that if I was going to RoadABC XXX, I often got closer to XXX by just using the car's odometer instead of wayfinder or nokia maps' idea of how far down XXX would be |
| 18:45.20 | derf | Right. I don't object to paying for a map. I object to subscribing to one with via a monthly fee. |
| 18:46.03 | ShadowJK | This might be because the people who designated the numbers used a car too, but I dunno :) |
| 18:46.07 | *** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@f048172106.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:46.44 | ShellEvil | I have no idea why OSM seems insanely popular in germany. |
| 18:46.55 | ShellEvil | There hasn't even been a massive data import there. |
| 18:47.04 | ShellEvil | But it's pretty complete. |
| 18:47.05 | derf | Normally when you mark property lines someone does an actual survey. |
| 18:47.14 | ShadowJK | It seemed usefully complete when I was in germany |
| 18:47.35 | ShadowJK | Not like here where entire towns are missing |
| 18:47.44 | ShellEvil | ShadowJK: when? |
| 18:47.54 | ShadowJK | July this summer |
| 18:48.05 | ShellEvil | yeah - it's come on lots. |
| 18:48.42 | ShellEvil | A widespread device with nice GPS and camera could help lots. |
| 18:49.03 | ShellEvil | You wander around taking pictures of streetsigns/... and pretty soon you've got a map |
| 18:50.55 | *** join/#maemo jjmarin (n=jjmarin_@84.125.149.110.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 18:53.03 | Firebird | erk, uploaded package to the wrong builder :o |
| 18:53.18 | *** join/#maemo jrocha (n=JRocha@40.86.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 18:55.46 | *** join/#maemo caotic (n=caotic@189.183.26.81) |
| 18:56.07 | *** join/#maemo roundyz (n=roundyz@92-237-40-239.cable.ubr09.wolv.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:56.10 | roundyz | Hello |
| 18:56.17 | Stskeeps | hello |
| 18:56.43 | roundyz | I just got from watching three of the videos about the n900, wow! |
| 18:57.13 | roundyz | But I hve came here with a few Qs, so... |
| 18:57.33 | roundyz | maemo is based on linux and gnome, yes? |
| 18:58.02 | roundyz | Can you get a terminal on it? |
| 18:58.30 | Stskeeps | let me just show you a blog post :) |
| 18:58.34 | Firebird | xterm is installed out of the box roundyz |
| 18:58.44 | roundyz | or could Maemo be emulated through a vm so I can test it myself? |
| 18:58.49 | roundyz | Firebird: thanks... |
| 18:59.01 | Stskeeps | roundyz: http://flors.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/software-freedom-lovers-here-comes-maemo-5/ |
| 18:59.04 | Stskeeps | >( |
| 18:59.05 | Stskeeps | :) |
| 18:59.20 | ShadowJK | oh no, N900 doesn't have the tiny nokia charger plug anymore? |
| 18:59.33 | Firebird | really? |
| 18:59.51 | tbf | ShadowJK: it got something better: a small usb port |
| 18:59.52 | Firebird | :/ I recently bought a nokia car charger |
| 19:00.41 | ShadowJK | Yeah that's a royal pain, have to get new adapters and stuff |
| 19:00.58 | ShadowJK | and availability is still poor |
| 19:02.31 | slonopotamus | so... it charges when plugged in desktop? |
| 19:02.47 | ShadowJK | it probably comes with a charger |
| 19:02.55 | mikkov_ | Firebird: you can get adapter for the old charger http://www.elektroni.fi/tuotekuvat/microUSB_DC2.0_Adapteri.jpg |
| 19:03.02 | roundyz | Is there any pricing on the net yet, or is it too early? |
| 19:03.15 | ShadowJK | mikkov_, is that big plug to microusb? |
| 19:03.35 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (n=alehorst@189.115.82.252) |
| 19:03.42 | ShadowJK | I just tried with my E75, it doesn't charge just by giving it power over USB... needs actual computer on the other end :/ |
| 19:03.51 | mikkov_ | ShadowJK: yes, the actual product page says microusb |
| 19:05.11 | mikkov_ | ShadowJK: that's an official nokia accessory, so it should work |
| 19:05.14 | *** join/#maemo J_P (n=neo@189.2.146.45) |
| 19:05.17 | J_P | hi all |
| 19:05.46 | ShadowJK | I tried connecting official nokia cable between powered USB hub and phone |
| 19:06.00 | ShadowJK | it would only charge if there was a computer connected to the USB hub too, just power wasn't enough :) |
| 19:06.06 | ShadowJK | But that adapter should work well |
| 19:06.17 | J_P | people, a question about N900. N900 has really GPS receiver or just that GPS (AGPS) from celular localization? |
| 19:06.27 | Stskeeps | full gps like n810 |
| 19:06.34 | Stskeeps | probably a hell lot better though |
| 19:06.47 | Firebird | oh, thanks mikkov_, that looks like the N810 USB cable |
| 19:06.51 | derf | Well, it would be hard to go in the other direction. |
| 19:06.56 | esaym153 | installed maemo mapper, it says "seraching for gps" and then it stops searching and then starts searching again, repeat repeat... Been doing that for about 5 minutes I guess. That normal? I have heard it takes awhile to first pair with satellites but not sure if that is what it is doing... |
| 19:06.58 | Stskeeps | AGPS is not only celluar localization - it helps downloading almanacs and such |
| 19:07.02 | J_P | Stskeeps: thanks, do you know what is receiver, may be the best start III ? |
| 19:07.14 | ShadowJK | esaym153, oh I had that once when gpsdriver had crashed |
| 19:07.25 | J_P | SiRFstar III |
| 19:07.36 | J_P | N900 use SiRFstar III? |
| 19:07.48 | Stskeeps | J_P: a good guess would be looking at the kernel configs, even though they might not match the final HW |
| 19:08.22 | esaym153 | ShadowJK: um..so not normal? The gps icon in the task bar keeps appearing and disappearing... |
| 19:08.30 | ShadowJK | not normal |
| 19:08.38 | esaym153 | dang, the fix? |
| 19:08.44 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@200.184.118.130) |
| 19:09.10 | Firebird | hmm, garage.maemo's terms of use is a 404: https://garage.maemo.org/legal/terms_of_use/ |
| 19:09.19 | ShadowJK | I think I did /etc/init.d/gpsdriver restart |
| 19:09.25 | ShadowJK | but you could just reboot the tablet I suppose |
| 19:09.33 | esaym153 | ty |
| 19:09.46 | J_P | ShadowJK: do you have a n900? |
| 19:09.52 | ShadowJK | no |
| 19:10.14 | J_P | ShadowJK: ahh a lspci show devices to know what chipset is gps receiver |
| 19:10.16 | J_P | :-) |
| 19:10.20 | J_P | or a lshw |
| 19:10.31 | ShadowJK | There is no PCI bus on these devices |
| 19:10.43 | J_P | ShadowJK: so a lshw |
| 19:11.03 | ShadowJK | My guess would be that the GPS is connected to a rs232 port |
| 19:11.52 | J_P | ShadowJK: ahh internal (of course) connected via rs232.. right |
| 19:11.54 | J_P | maybe |
| 19:12.13 | ShadowJK | That's how it is on N810 |
| 19:12.27 | J_P | or just a chip (arm) that is a SoC with gps receiver together processor |
| 19:12.33 | J_P | humm |
| 19:13.26 | ShadowJK | not together with processor on n810 |
| 19:14.23 | J_P | if N900 use SiRFstar III, is a goos gps receiver |
| 19:14.45 | *** join/#maemo radic (n=radic@ip-90-187-93-105.web.vodafone.de) |
| 19:15.26 | *** join/#maemo blade_runner (n=arezende@200.184.118.130) |
| 19:15.54 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@a213-22-69-165.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 19:19.00 | Stskeeps | i don't think it's sirf, but yeah |
| 19:19.44 | *** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman) |
| 19:22.11 | aol_ | I'm sure it's not sirf |
| 19:22.23 | aol_ | nokia uses their own GPS |
| 19:24.06 | J_P | aol_: humm you know what is specifcation ? |
| 19:24.18 | J_P | aol_: or, is good as srf? |
| 19:24.20 | J_P | srif |
| 19:24.22 | J_P | sirf |
| 19:24.39 | aol_ | not nearly as good |
| 19:25.00 | Stskeeps | well, in n810 it was exceptionally crap |
| 19:25.04 | Stskeeps | i can only imagine they improved it :) |
| 19:25.17 | ShellEvil | Is it a NMEA output - or is it a software-aided GPS? |
| 19:25.26 | ShadowJK | aol_, I didn't even know they had their own gps |
| 19:25.45 | Stskeeps | ShadowJK: NMEA output according to specs |
| 19:25.47 | ShellEvil | Rolling your own GPS is a lot easier these days. |
| 19:25.55 | Stskeeps | err, -> ShadowJK |
| 19:25.56 | ShellEvil | There are lots of chipsets out there. |
| 19:25.58 | aol_ | atleast S60 has NMEA output |
| 19:26.03 | Stskeeps | .. -> ShellEvil |
| 19:26.05 | Stskeeps | fails. |
| 19:26.20 | J_P | Stskeeps: why crap ? what's happen to be a crap ? |
| 19:26.30 | johnsq | Stskeeps: time for bed? |
| 19:26.35 | ShadowJK | hm, what's the format that gpsd outputs? |
| 19:26.44 | aol_ | Nokia does the GPS mostly in firmware |
| 19:27.01 | aol_ | where sirf is complete chipset with processing |
| 19:27.21 | Stskeeps | johnsq: can't. have to pack. moving tomorrow. |
| 19:27.23 | aol_ | so that's why nokia can have GPS on virtually every phone over 80 euros |
| 19:27.33 | ShellEvil | The downside for GPS - on host CPU - is that it's a binary blob. |
| 19:27.40 | ShellEvil | At least often. |
| 19:27.47 | ShellEvil | Which can have compatibility issues. |
| 19:28.11 | ShadowJK | Nokia N95 seems to have a TI GPS chip |
| 19:28.18 | Stskeeps | so was n810 |
| 19:28.27 | ShellEvil | There are about 3 or 4 levels of 'software GPS' |
| 19:28.42 | aol_ | yeah I have no idea on the details |
| 19:28.52 | J_P | ShadowJK: if n900 has same gps receiver that n95, so is good.. |
| 19:29.21 | aol_ | but ofcourse they use _some_ chips, and they manufacture none them selves. but sirf is the complete route from antenna to NMEA output |
| 19:29.24 | ShellEvil | Going all the way from a chip that only does the absolute bare minimum - and gives you an 18 megabit bitstream of samples - that you then have to extract all the information from. To chips that lock onto satellites on their own - and just output the semi-raw output. |
| 19:29.35 | *** join/#maemo r2d2rogers (n=r2d2roge@unaffiliated/r2d2rogers) |
| 19:29.44 | ShellEvil | Then you have chips which basically output completely cooked NMEA |
| 19:30.30 | Woolly | does anyone here like soda? |
| 19:30.52 | ShellEvil | Not inside phones. |
| 19:31.09 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: the N810 GPS is only crap because of the blob and (possibly) the antenna... |
| 19:31.21 | Woolly | because of the blob |
| 19:31.29 | Woolly | that sounds like a cult 60's sci-fi classic |
| 19:31.50 | johnsq | Woolly: the bold wan't in the 80's? |
| 19:31.57 | johnsq | /bold/blob |
| 19:32.06 | ShellEvil | sighs. |
| 19:32.10 | Woolly | oh it was actually a film |
| 19:32.21 | ShellEvil | was involved in a project to opensource the blob in the Openmoko GTA01. |
| 19:32.39 | ShellEvil | Which got to the point of detecting satellites and their approximate relative velocity. |
| 19:33.02 | Luke-Jr | ShellEvil: want to help with GPS5300 reveng? :þ |
| 19:33.05 | ShellEvil | And then stalled as it was announced that the same chip (which coincidentally is in the iphone) wasn't going to be in the GTA01 |
| 19:33.09 | johnsq | Woolly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blob you are right 1958 |
| 19:33.20 | Luke-Jr | J_P: N810 had the same GPS chip as N95, but the blob makes it suck |
| 19:33.21 | ShellEvil | GPS5300? |
| 19:33.29 | Luke-Jr | ShellEvil: TI GPS5300 is used in N810 and N95 |
| 19:33.30 | Woolly | johnsq: man that was some lucky guesswork :D |
| 19:33.39 | ShellEvil | Ah. |
| 19:33.52 | ShellEvil | Luke-Jr: not really - I was interested as I had one. |
| 19:33.55 | J_P | Luke-Jr: what is blob ? |
| 19:34.05 | ShellEvil | J_P: a program with no sourcecode |
| 19:34.07 | Woolly | has anyone heard of Galcos Soda Pop Stop? |
| 19:34.13 | Luke-Jr | J_P: a piece of ARM bytecode that nobody can work with |
| 19:34.30 | J_P | humm |
| 19:34.35 | J_P | closed source... |
| 19:34.50 | ShadowJK | Anyone remember the bluetooth chip used in N900? |
| 19:34.54 | J_P | So, is not possible install a pure linux distro on n900, like as a debian/ubuntu for example? |
| 19:35.43 | *** join/#maemo woglinde (i=woglinde@78.52.229.142) |
| 19:35.50 | ShellEvil | Luke-Jr: Jesus - that's a _zero_ information spec-sheet. (from TI) |
| 19:36.16 | ShellEvil | J_P: the above discussion wasn't about 900 - AIUI |
| 19:36.32 | woglinde | AIUI? |
| 19:36.47 | ShadowJK | "as I understand it" |
| 19:36.52 | J_P | ShellEvil: ahh sorry, is becouse you told me about closed source.. |
| 19:36.55 | J_P | :-) |
| 19:36.58 | Stskeeps | J_P: best thing about maemo is that you can get rid of it. :) |
| 19:37.27 | Stskeeps | i can't promise all hw functionality will work though. |
| 19:37.29 | Woolly | Stskeeps: what would you put on instead? |
| 19:37.30 | Stskeeps | in a fully open system |
| 19:37.46 | J_P | Stskeeps: no, if chipsets works only wity closed source.. |
| 19:37.49 | Stskeeps | Woolly: there's different efforts on N8x0: gentoo, mer, etc.. |
| 19:37.57 | Stskeeps | we had debian on n8x0 too |
| 19:38.02 | Woolly | sweet :) |
| 19:38.09 | Stskeeps | n900 is probably just as hackable |
| 19:38.21 | Woolly | did mer spawn from a reaction to maemo? |
| 19:38.37 | Stskeeps | if you're thinking we got pissed, that's not how it was :) |
| 19:39.08 | Woolly | Stskeeps: was that in answer to my question? |
| 19:39.12 | Stskeeps | Woolly: yeah |
| 19:39.21 | Woolly | Stskeeps: ahh, pissed as in drunk? |
| 19:39.21 | Woolly | :D |
| 19:39.52 | Stskeeps | Woolly: story is more along the lines of that we saw areas that needs change in maemo and decided to reconstruct the thing - using mostly maemo pieces |
| 19:40.08 | Woolly | Stskeeps: cool :) |
| 19:40.10 | J_P | Stskeeps: yout debian install on n810 works wireless and gps on debian? |
| 19:40.35 | Stskeeps | J_P: i don't have debian on my n810. |
| 19:40.40 | Stskeeps | Woolly: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/cphnotes.pdf |
| 19:40.48 | Woolly | Stskeeps: cheers |
| 19:40.57 | Stskeeps | comes with notes in the end |
| 19:41.12 | Woolly | does Carsten Munk reside here at the moment? |
| 19:41.18 | woglinde | lol |
| 19:41.26 | Stskeeps | yeah, that's Luke-Jr |
| 19:41.27 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 19:41.28 | Stskeeps | runs |
| 19:41.35 | wiretapped | lol |
| 19:41.35 | *** join/#maemo MrGoose (n=cache@5ac86e7c.bb.sky.com) |
| 19:41.37 | Stskeeps | (no, that's me.) |
| 19:41.44 | Woolly | oh, hullo :) |
| 19:41.45 | woglinde | hi mrgoose |
| 19:41.56 | MrGoose | hi woglinde |
| 19:41.58 | *** join/#maemo tlir (n=tlir@IGLD-84-229-178-153.inter.net.il) |
| 19:42.08 | Woolly | so long as we can get rid of hildon, i'm happy :D |
| 19:42.31 | Stskeeps | oh, we still use hildon, but in the long run we're going qt too |
| 19:42.56 | MrGoose | woglinde: where do you order from this website (igep-platform)? |
| 19:43.07 | Woolly | phewft |
| 19:43.09 | Stskeeps | you might bash hildon but it does have a purpose in terms of power saving and mobile usage.. |
| 19:43.13 | wiretapped | Woolly: what do you want to use instead of hildon? |
| 19:43.36 | Stskeeps | and there's a number of things wrong with it :) |
| 19:43.48 | woglinde | mrgoose not yet |
| 19:43.57 | woglinde | I think next week it will start |
| 19:44.00 | MrGoose | woglinde: ah okay |
| 19:44.02 | Woolly | wiretapped: I have no opinion either way, I just dont particularly like it |
| 19:45.03 | Stskeeps | a desktop environment for laptops don't work well on a tablet, for instance :) |
| 19:45.11 | Woolly | Stskeeps: agreed |
| 19:45.21 | Woolly | Stskeeps: also, widgets = fail |
| 19:45.25 | *** join/#maemo mgedmin (n=mg@office.pov.lt) |
| 19:46.30 | *** join/#maemo herzi (n=herzi@port-2911.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 19:47.38 | Stskeeps | widgets? they have a lot more purpose in n900 :P |
| 19:48.24 | X-Fade | With the scrolling desktop, yes. |
| 19:48.35 | X-Fade | Even fullscreen widgets make sense now ;) |
| 19:48.59 | ShellEvil | wishes trackpoints were available. |
| 19:49.16 | ShellEvil | trackpoint with little keyb would be killer. |
| 19:49.55 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: why do you hide that you *can't* have a fully open system on N8x0? :/ |
| 19:49.58 | Proteous | get a blackberry |
| 19:50.33 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=Miranda@gwh-1-22-val21.ln.rinet.ru) |
| 19:50.36 | Woolly | Fullscreen widgets still make no sense to me |
| 19:50.45 | wiretapped | Luke-Jr: examples? |
| 19:50.48 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: didn't we agree these discussions are pointless? :P |
| 19:50.53 | wiretapped | (of Stskeeps hiding that) |
| 19:51.00 | Luke-Jr | wiretapped: last page of chat? |
| 19:51.23 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: i said explicitly that i can't promise all hw functionality will work. |
| 19:51.30 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: that implies it will work at all |
| 19:51.40 | wiretapped | < Stskeeps> i can't promise all hw functionality will work though. |
| 19:51.58 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: do you have the source for your BIOS? |
| 19:52.03 | *** join/#maemo jnettlet (n=jnettlet@216-19-186-197.dyn.novuscom.net) |
| 19:52.08 | Stskeeps | if not, at this point we stop the conversation |
| 19:52.08 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: what BIOS? EFI? |
| 19:52.19 | Stskeeps | whatever gets your computer to boot sector |
| 19:52.33 | Luke-Jr | I think so, yes. ⺠|
| 19:52.42 | konttori | just uploaded *real* transitioncontrol https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2009-August/009005.html |
| 19:52.55 | konttori | previous version was just fake |
| 19:52.58 | wiretapped | Luke-Jr: fwiw I for one really appreciate your complaints :) |
| 19:52.59 | Stskeeps | do you really? :P give me specification of the motherboard you use at this exact moment :) |
| 19:53.10 | konttori | this allows all transitions to be tuned nicely in one interface |
| 19:53.21 | wiretapped | but I also really appreciate Stskeeps' work on mer, and don't think it is fair to say he's "hiding" something in the above exchange |
| 19:53.22 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: I'm not referring to that computer I'm using at this exact moment. ⺠|
| 19:53.34 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: I'm referring to my EFIKA box |
| 19:53.42 | *** part/#maemo guax (n=guaxinim@unaffiliated/guaxinim) |
| 19:53.52 | Luke-Jr | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Firmware |
| 19:54.22 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: i am. and i'm wondering why you're complaining about that you can't put a open system on your device - while you can. NOLO and X-Loader is closed source, yes - but at that point a linux kernel takes over |
| 19:54.30 | Stskeeps | of your own selection |
| 19:54.35 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: BME |
| 19:54.53 | *** join/#maemo sivang (n=shir@ubuntu/member/sivang) |
| 19:54.54 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: the interfaces for retu chips are documented by community |
| 19:55.01 | konttori | nice to see that canola is being uploaded to fremantle |
| 19:55.03 | suihkulokki | does the mytube developer hang out here? |
| 19:55.04 | konttori | and pyside as well |
| 19:55.14 | sivang | Good UTC+2 evening! |
| 19:55.18 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: if the battery won't charge, it's not really usable |
| 19:55.24 | sivang | I've follosed the SDK installation docs, |
| 19:55.31 | sivang | but when I try to start the UI I get: |
| 19:55.47 | wiretapped | konttori: any ETA on theme specs being public? |
| 19:55.48 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: i might be wrong, but it is entirely possible to feed your N810 through DC. |
| 19:56.02 | konttori | wiretapped: I'll put them out tomorrow |
| 19:56.06 | wiretapped | nice |
| 19:56.09 | sivang | actually before that, there seem to be a problem with the installation - |
| 19:56.12 | konttori | Just need to blog it really. |
| 19:56.22 | suihkulokki | sivang: you should use universal greeting time :P |
| 19:56.29 | sivang | af-sb-init.sh is not in the path |
| 19:56.34 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: if you have to modify the hardware, does that really count? ;) |
| 19:56.40 | sivang | and the etc folder didn't seem to mount correctly inside the chroot |
| 19:56.41 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: afaik no modification needed |
| 19:56.42 | wiretapped | is the latest hildon-theme-tools available? |
| 19:56.45 | sivang | suihkulokki: I should :) |
| 19:56.50 | konttori | wiretapped: no clue |
| 19:56.54 | konttori | I never use theme toold |
| 19:56.54 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: replacing the battery with DC input is a modification.. |
| 19:56.57 | konttori | just theme maker |
| 19:57.07 | konttori | I suspect the old tools should work |
| 19:57.13 | johnsq | Stskeeps: i didn't boot without battery iirc |
| 19:57.15 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: not really. different power source |
| 19:57.16 | wiretapped | but we need the new template.. |
| 19:57.19 | konttori | just need the new cut files. |
| 19:57.32 | wiretapped | yeah |
| 19:57.35 | Woolly | every time I come in here, I seem to start a fight :( |
| 19:57.38 | Stskeeps | naah. |
| 19:57.43 | Stskeeps | this is just friday night ;) |
| 19:57.47 | Stskeeps | passes Woolly the popcorn |
| 19:57.56 | sivang | this is what I get when I try to run the script from /targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/usr/bin/af-init-sb.sh |
| 19:57.58 | Luke-Jr | anyhow, I think we need a channel for an open handheld platform :þ |
| 19:57.59 | Woolly | thanks |
| 19:57.59 | sivang | AF Warning: '/etc/osso-af-init/osso-gtk.defs' not found |
| 19:58.02 | sivang | /targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/usr/bin/af-sb-init.sh: line 112: /etc/osso-af-init/osso-gtk.defs: No such file or directory |
| 19:58.24 | Luke-Jr | since apparently porting Linux to other handhelds is considered an insult to Nokia here |
| 19:58.25 | Woolly | Luke-Jr: was open moko not totally open? |
| 19:58.35 | Luke-Jr | Woolly: I suppose, but I heard it didn't work either |
| 19:58.41 | zerojay | We have fight club here on fridays. |
| 19:58.43 | Luke-Jr | Woolly: and it's not very useful without a keyboard |
| 19:58.44 | Woolly | Luke-Jr: yes, that's what I heard too |
| 19:58.57 | sivang | could anybody give a hand for someone who is depsperatly wanting to see the UI in action ? :) |
| 19:59.09 | zerojay | Youtube. |
| 19:59.10 | Luke-Jr | SmartQ is totally open, but it lacks cell connectivity and again no kb |
| 19:59.10 | *** join/#maemo rkirti (n=oespirit@203.199.213.3) |
| 19:59.24 | X-Fade | Luke-Jr: Dude, really. There are bigger and more interesting fights to pick. |
| 19:59.24 | Stskeeps | personally doesn't mind paying less money for a handheld device cos of blobs. |
| 19:59.36 | konttori | can show @ nokiaworld ui in action |
| 19:59.43 | ShadowJK | Luke-Jr, it supports cellular data if you buy the modem too, but not voice afaik |
| 19:59.44 | Luke-Jr | X-Fade: why is it automatically a fight to want a working free handheld? |
| 19:59.51 | ShadowJK | the Q7 does, iirc |
| 19:59.55 | Luke-Jr | ShadowJK: really? |
| 20:00.04 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: usb host with sufficient juice in Q7 |
| 20:00.14 | Luke-Jr | oh, external USB... |
| 20:00.21 | X-Fade | Luke-Jr: Be realistic a bit. This is the best piece of kit anyone can get at the moment. |
| 20:00.21 | fiferboy_ | sivang: Are you running that command from within the X86 scratchbox rootstrap? |
| 20:00.22 | Stskeeps | there's HW hacks to make it internal, too |
| 20:00.38 | Luke-Jr | X-Fade: realisticly, that Samsung OmniaPro looks nice |
| 20:00.42 | ShadowJK | But on touchbook you could have it internal without hacks :) |
| 20:00.53 | X-Fade | Luke-Jr: Then buy that and see how it does in 2 years? |
| 20:00.53 | *** join/#maemo csaavedra (n=claudio@249.13.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 20:00.57 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: saw the omapzoom 2? |
| 20:01.02 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: no? |
| 20:01.11 | sivang | fiferboy_: I do /scratcbox/login , and then get the ARMEL prompt |
| 20:01.12 | Woolly | I wish I was a little bit taller |
| 20:01.16 | Stskeeps | since you don't seem to mind paying the premium for more open stuff.. |
| 20:01.19 | Luke-Jr | X-Fade: one person can't make a successful port |
| 20:01.35 | sivang | Woolly: wish I was a baller |
| 20:01.36 | fiferboy_ | sivang: You need to run sb-menu and go to "select" and select FREMANTLE_X86 |
| 20:01.43 | X-Fade | Luke-Jr: Well, don't complain here. Trolling won't give you a lot of volunteer either ;) |
| 20:01.44 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: premium? SmartQ are cheaper, and OmniaPro looks at least about hte same as n900 price |
| 20:01.55 | Woolly | sivang: wish I had a girl who looked good so I could call her |
| 20:01.56 | Luke-Jr | X-Fade: I'm not complaining, I'm inviting :þ |
| 20:02.03 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: smartq is cheaper but honest to god it's not as quality.. |
| 20:02.09 | sivang | fiferboy_: I'll try , I run that from the regular shell or from the scratchbox/login ? |
| 20:02.10 | lcuk | Luke-Jr, piss off. a determined coder could do practically anything in 2 years. |
| 20:02.22 | Stskeeps | wifi chips really shouldn't fall out of their sockets.. |
| 20:02.22 | fiferboy_ | after /scratchbox/login |
| 20:02.28 | fiferboy_ | ^ sivang |
| 20:02.30 | Luke-Jr | lcuk: that wasn't the point at all -.- |
| 20:02.31 | sivang | fiferboy_: k, let's try - thanks |
| 20:02.37 | ShellEvil | Sure - if they are willing to spend a few thousand hours... |
| 20:02.43 | lcuk | you said it wasnt possible |
| 20:02.47 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: https://omapzoom.org/gf/project/omapzoomhome/ , click the buy banner |
| 20:02.48 | suihkulokki | wonders who pissed into Luke-Jr's friday beer |
| 20:02.50 | fiferboy_ | sivang: Also, make sure you agreed to the EULA and installed the nokia-binaries packages |
| 20:02.59 | zerojay | Luke, are you helping to write free replacements for the blobs? |
| 20:03.02 | X-Fade | People waste too much time talking, and not doing. |
| 20:03.10 | sivang | fiferboy_: -binaries is installed, and agreed to the EULA |
| 20:03.10 | Stskeeps | zerojay: that said, he is |
| 20:03.15 | Stskeeps | or at least patches |
| 20:03.18 | Luke-Jr | lcuk: I said "can't", which could just as well mean "not practical" |
| 20:03.23 | X-Fade | Pick something you want to improve and have a go at it. |
| 20:03.28 | sivang | fiferboy_: chose it, it said "hangup" |
| 20:03.35 | sivang | fiferboy_: and exited its ncurses UI |
| 20:03.35 | fiferboy_ | sivang: You have to install the binaries in the X86 environment after you switch to it |
| 20:03.38 | lcuk | Luke-Jr, its entirely practical |
| 20:03.42 | ShadowJK | is omniapro something newer than omniahd? |
| 20:03.49 | slonopotamus | lcuk, it's |
| 20:03.50 | Woolly | I want to improve the wiiremote control stuff, are the project admins about? |
| 20:03.57 | sivang | fiferboy_: so now I need to relogin, and sudo apt-get install nokia-binaries ? |
| 20:04.00 | lcuk | :| slono |
| 20:04.06 | sivang | relogin = /scratchbox/login |
| 20:04.06 | slonopotamus | lcuk, :P |
| 20:04.11 | lcuk | :D |
| 20:04.11 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: the problem is TI keeps OMAP specs closed, afaik |
| 20:04.16 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 20:04.23 | Woolly | evening javis |
| 20:04.24 | lcuk | Luke-Jr, then do it with existing kit |
| 20:04.25 | suihkulokki | many single people have ported linux to winmo/palm handhelds in less than year |
| 20:04.26 | lcuk | and make it work |
| 20:04.28 | javispedro | re |
| 20:04.28 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: sigh.. :P |
| 20:04.35 | fiferboy | sivang: Re-login and then switch toe X86 should work |
| 20:04.43 | suihkulokki | trouble is, they usually get bored with the project when they get userland running :P |
| 20:04.53 | Luke-Jr | heh |
| 20:04.56 | ShadowJK | Omnia and OmniaHD seem to have MSRP of about 600 and 650 compared to N900 MSRP of 500 :) |
| 20:05.05 | Luke-Jr | suihkulokki: you're including all the hardware in that? |
| 20:05.06 | lcuk | suihkulokki, scratching an itch |
| 20:05.08 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: AFAIK samsung's are just as closed, ignoring the leaked docs |
| 20:05.53 | javispedro | suihkulokki, possibly because then people start complaining about horrid battery life, nil wi-fi performance (or inexistant) instead of cheering at the videos of kernel logs on lcd. |
| 20:05.54 | *** join/#maemo n6pfk (n=mike@96.238.186.191) |
| 20:05.54 | GAN800 | Stskeeps, +1 |
| 20:05.54 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: I like leaked docs that I have no legal restrictions on implementing. |
| 20:05.54 | sivang | fiferboy: oh chees, I need to do the same setup on the X86 target |
| 20:06.10 | fiferboy | sivang: Yes. You can copy the line from your ARMEL sources.list |
| 20:06.13 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: you'd be much better off on X86 it sounds like.. |
| 20:06.27 | Stskeeps | because yes, that platform hw is documented .. |
| 20:06.37 | X-Fade | Luke-Jr: Let's have a game. You start with that Samsung and you let Stskeeps do his Mer thing. Then we come back next year on this date and compare how far you both got. |
| 20:06.38 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, why arm at all, btw? |
| 20:06.47 | javispedro | x86, documented? |
| 20:06.48 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: because ARM is most common? |
| 20:06.50 | javispedro | hah. |
| 20:06.59 | Luke-Jr | X-Fade: Stskeeps has more free time |
| 20:07.02 | Stskeeps | err.. no |
| 20:07.07 | lcuk | X-Fade, not fair, stskeeps has already spent a year proving Luke-Jr's assumption wrong |
| 20:07.14 | X-Fade | Luke-Jr: Excuses already. |
| 20:07.16 | slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, so what? just recompile for different cpu |
| 20:07.18 | zerojay | Lol |
| 20:07.19 | lcuk | and look at oh how far he has come! |
| 20:07.19 | suihkulokki | Luke-Jr: that varied ofcourse, most pda's never got all drivers, but many did (in the javispedro style:P) |
| 20:07.24 | Stskeeps | X-Fade: not too fair, we have Mer running on the smartq already :P |
| 20:07.29 | zerojay | Hahaha |
| 20:07.35 | Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: I'm not picky about ARM. It just happens to be in most everything. |
| 20:08.03 | lcuk | then it should be easy to work towards |
| 20:08.06 | lcuk | even without specs |
| 20:08.09 | ShadowJK | The chinese MIPS laptops are open enough even for Stallman to use :P |
| 20:08.19 | lcuk | hah |
| 20:09.21 | suihkulokki | you can also grab a sheevaplug for a 100% free sw arm hardware :) |
| 20:09.30 | ShadowJK | has a sheevaplug already :) |
| 20:09.40 | fiferboy | GAN800: Are you spear-heading the "We need developer devices, damn it!" movement? |
| 20:09.55 | lcuk | Luke-Jr, would have a sheeva plug, but he couldnt because the box wasnt open when he looked |
| 20:10.16 | *** join/#maemo svu__ (n=svu@89.100.187.26) |
| 20:10.16 | Luke-Jr | lcuk: troll |
| 20:10.18 | roundyz | how does vi work without esc key? do you do ctrl+[ ? |
| 20:10.22 | lcuk | :D |
| 20:10.23 | lcuk | yeah!!! |
| 20:10.26 | ShadowJK | lcuk, the box it came in is very nice :) |
| 20:10.35 | GAN800 | fiferboy, I'm spearheading the "I don't care anymore if I can't get 3G" movement. |
| 20:10.38 | lcuk | is that a +5 troll tho :p |
| 20:10.39 | ShadowJK | it has a proper lid and all |
| 20:10.47 | fiferboy | GAN800: Are you with AT&T? |
| 20:10.48 | Luke-Jr | lcuk: -12 |
| 20:10.51 | johnsq | roundyz: yes, or map esc to another key |
| 20:11.09 | suihkulokki | ShadowJK: but it was locked box.. >:-( with a magnet :P |
| 20:11.10 | johnsq | roundyz: error esc is on the n810 |
| 20:11.24 | roundyz | I was looking at the n900, sorry. |
| 20:11.27 | GAN800 | fiferboy, two iPhones on my family plan and no T-Mobile 3G coverage here. |
| 20:11.41 | roundyz | I didn't see a esc key there. |
| 20:11.52 | *** part/#maemo g0uest_007 (n=guest@195.24.76.208) |
| 20:11.53 | Stskeeps | xterm has it |
| 20:11.55 | fiferboy | GAN800: That sucks. You could still get EDGE :) |
| 20:12.25 | GAN800 | fiferboy, yeah, I used EDGE for two years. |
| 20:12.39 | Luke-Jr | well if anyone want's to be positive about possibly making a nice Mer/Gentoo/etc port for OmniaPro or some other handheld, let's use #FreeHandheld for it? |
| 20:12.41 | GAN800 | Not gonna work with stuff like Ovi Maps on the device. |
| 20:13.05 | konttori | can somebody move xchat to fremantle extras from diablo? |
| 20:13.15 | konttori | the package works just perfectly from diablo. |
| 20:14.49 | X-Fade | no, sorry. |
| 20:14.57 | slonopotamus | no |
| 20:15.17 | X-Fade | well, can, but won't. |
| 20:15.23 | Luke-Jr | lol |
| 20:15.25 | Stskeeps | http://myomniapro.com/ front page is funny |
| 20:15.52 | javispedro | wtf |
| 20:15.54 | johnsq | Stskeeps: *lol* |
| 20:15.55 | suihkulokki | Despite of being samsung device, according to unreliable internet forumss OmniaPro has marvell pxa3xx |
| 20:16.05 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: heh ;) |
| 20:16.07 | Luke-Jr | suihkulokki: wrong model |
| 20:16.08 | *** join/#maemo GAN8001 (n=ryan@32.162.204.252) |
| 20:16.19 | GAN8001 | Ugh |
| 20:16.34 | Stskeeps | wb |
| 20:16.41 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: is that page FUD? N900 processor is more powerful how? |
| 20:16.42 | GAN8001 | Changing tabs too fast in XChat causes a wd reset, qwerty12. |
| 20:17.22 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: no, i don't think it's FUD |
| 20:17.48 | javispedro | so, let me understand this. guy opens page about omnia, installs forum software, gets some registered users... then tells everyone he's closing shop because he does not want omnia pro? |
| 20:17.50 | suihkulokki | Luke-Jr: do you have link to correct specs? |
| 20:18.03 | Stskeeps | javispedro: chippy from umpcportal .. he isn't a troll :) |
| 20:18.11 | *** part/#maemo MrGoose (n=cache@5ac86e7c.bb.sky.com) |
| 20:18.14 | zerojay | Lol |
| 20:18.31 | Luke-Jr | suihkulokki: add B7610 to search |
| 20:19.19 | *** join/#maemo secureendpoints (n=chatzill@cpe-24-193-47-88.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 20:19.32 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: is there any devices, at all, that lives up to your high standards, btw? |
| 20:20.14 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: the OmniaPro I mentioned seems like it could |
| 20:21.24 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: how? it's a windows mobile device with probable closed source boot loader, and you'll have to use HaReT to boot your kernel? :P |
| 20:21.43 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: how is that a problem? |
| 20:21.55 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 20:21.56 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: s3c6410 SoC |
| 20:22.20 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: yes, but that really doesn't help on the associated hw chips |
| 20:22.42 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: I figure the 3D accel is the biggest/most complex bit |
| 20:22.44 | Stskeeps | 6410 says nothing about battery, telephony, sound, gps, or even touchscreen |
| 20:22.48 | *** join/#maemo GAN8002 (n=ryan@166.193.34.61) |
| 20:22.56 | Stskeeps | so how on .. earth is that better? :P |
| 20:23.49 | ShadowJK | in practical terms it's less useful than N810 then :) |
| 20:23.53 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: also of interest is the HTC Touch Pro, which has an existing Linux port :þ |
| 20:24.09 | ShadowJK | Luke-Jr, oh do you know what works and what doesn't on that? |
| 20:24.09 | *** join/#maemo GAN800 (n=ryan@166.193.34.61) |
| 20:24.11 | Luke-Jr | and a really nice looking kb |
| 20:24.17 | GAN800 | Double ugh |
| 20:24.17 | javispedro | well, the Palm T|X also has a Linux port. want my fried one? :P |
| 20:24.31 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: did you ever check the xda-developer sites for status on the ports? :P |
| 20:24.34 | ShadowJK | I would think that HTC Dream would be a better place to start... atleast it has mostly working framebuffer already :) |
| 20:25.07 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: I think something like that came out of Googel |
| 20:25.15 | Luke-Jr | ShadowJK: TP2 does too IIRC |
| 20:25.29 | Luke-Jr | http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=RaphaelLinux#Currentx20.state |
| 20:25.30 | Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: just because it's android it doesn't mean you'd have all source needed.. |
| 20:26.12 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: no? |
| 20:26.34 | Luke-Jr | can always report GPL violations |
| 20:26.48 | *** join/#maemo ArSa (n=ArSa@nc-71-0-121-232.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 20:27.13 | javispedro | what GPL Violation? android is apache license |
| 20:27.28 | Luke-Jr | javispedro: Android doesn't use Linux for its kernel? |
| 20:27.43 | javispedro | oh, expect simple passthrough kmod then 1 MiB user space app |
| 20:27.46 | Luke-Jr | Linux is always GPL-2 |
| 20:27.48 | javispedro | much like the N810 GPS situation I guess. |
| 20:27.51 | pH5 | Luke-Jr: much of the interesting stuff is running on the ARM9 part on the qualcomm chips, which is as closed as it gets. |
| 20:28.12 | Woolly | chocolate time |
| 20:28.25 | javispedro | specially since Android is using OpenBinder (so they have cheap system-wide ipc) . |
| 20:29.09 | javispedro | heh. I just had a Déjà vu. |
| 20:29.30 | Luke-Jr | sigh |
| 20:29.32 | Luke-Jr | oh well |
| 20:29.38 | suihkulokki | admittedly the linux handhelds people did ports were much more simpler devices |
| 20:30.05 | suihkulokki | I remember being happy finging a pda with wifi *and* bluetooth |
| 20:33.26 | Woolly | has chocolate :) |
| 20:33.35 | lcuk | has bacon |
| 20:33.40 | Woolly | hates bacon |
| 20:33.48 | lcuk | all the more for me! |
| 20:33.53 | woglinde | haha bacon |
| 20:34.17 | Woolly | bacon is nocab spelt backwards |
| 20:34.49 | javispedro | no cab for you then |
| 20:34.59 | slonopotamus | has beer |
| 20:35.12 | lcuk | i do 2 |
| 20:35.39 | slonopotamus | only two? full fridge here :D |
| 20:36.13 | Woolly | brb |
| 20:36.41 | *** join/#maemo Woolly (n=Woolly@cpc1-broo2-0-0-cust118.renf.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:36.41 | Woolly | time to update Colloquy |
| 20:36.49 | *** join/#maemo MrGoose (n=cache@5ac86e7c.bb.sky.com) |
| 20:36.50 | ShadowJK | I wish I had 3G coverage so that the typical GSM interference in audio equipment would go away :( |
| 20:37.02 | ShellEvil | has hot bath. |
| 20:37.13 | ShellEvil | wants bluetooth optical submersible mouse. |
| 20:37.18 | Woolly | had irn bru |
| 20:38.23 | *** join/#maemo MaceN8x0 (n=macer@m495336d0.tmodns.net) |
| 20:39.27 | *** join/#maemo Woolly (n=Woolly@cpc1-broo2-0-0-cust118.renf.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:39.31 | Woolly | much better |
| 20:41.05 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=rsalveti@200.184.118.130) |
| 20:42.03 | J_P | maemo5 in N900 is qt or gtk? |
| 20:42.32 | Robot101 | gtk |
| 20:42.37 | Robot101 | clutter |
| 20:42.46 | Robot101 | and hildon, which is extra widgets and framework on top of them |
| 20:42.57 | Woolly | widgets blargh |
| 20:44.48 | J_P | well, but with nokia with trolltech next maemo will be qt... this is obvious... |
| 20:45.08 | javispedro | not so obvious. see novell. |
| 20:45.22 | J_P | javispedro: what has novell? |
| 20:45.28 | *** part/#maemo feld (n=feld@games.coffeenet.org) |
| 20:45.52 | javispedro | SuSE |
| 20:46.11 | J_P | javispedro: and ? |
| 20:46.21 | *** join/#maemo vladovg (n=vladooo@amur2.ddns-lan.lom.ekk.bg) |
| 20:46.33 | javispedro | traditionally a KDE distro, but Novell already had Ximian |
| 20:46.41 | javispedro | (a gnome company afaik) |
| 20:47.28 | J_P | yes |
| 20:47.49 | *** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@86.56.53.13) |
| 20:47.51 | J_P | but novell bouth a toolkit.. so.. is diferent.. |
| 20:47.51 | *** join/#maemo khertan (i=5c8e6bc8@gateway/web/freenode/x-jarpkblnvdjrlqpa) |
| 20:47.53 | J_P | sorry |
| 20:47.58 | J_P | nokia bouth |
| 20:47.58 | khertan | Hi again ... |
| 20:48.15 | woglinde | hi khertan |
| 20:48.44 | pH5 | hmm, tpa6130a2 headphone amplifier. I hope that means decent SNR on the headphone plug. |
| 20:48.44 | khertan | Someone know why python2.5-osso isn't available in the fremantle repository and python-osso is in |
| 20:48.48 | khertan | ? |
| 20:48.58 | khertan | hi woglinde |
| 20:49.04 | Stskeeps | khertan: new packaging in fremantle AFAIK |
| 20:49.13 | Stskeeps | closer to debian packaging |
| 20:49.16 | khertan | hum ... |
| 20:49.44 | khertan | actually things is mixed between python2.5-* and python-* |
| 20:50.07 | woglinde | hm maybee some here has a hint |
| 20:50.20 | khertan | and so this mean that i need to do different package for diablo and fremantle |
| 20:50.23 | khertan | snif ... |
| 20:50.43 | Stskeeps | khertan: it's really for the better in the long run :P |
| 20:51.00 | khertan | i'm not sure |
| 20:51.04 | jeremiah | Well, you shouldn't have to change so many things for simple packages. |
| 20:51.10 | woglinde | in python I need a sane way to stop a thread from threading which has a loop-method which only breaks at keyboardInterrupt |
| 20:51.11 | jeremiah | The entire packaging format has not changed. |
| 20:51.29 | khertan | woglinde: you can't kill thread in python |
| 20:51.58 | woglinde | khertan I want to break the loop |
| 20:52.12 | khertan | the best way to do it ... is sending signal to the process to say it to break the loop |
| 20:52.29 | woglinde | except KeyboardInterrupt: |
| 20:52.32 | Stskeeps | jeremiah: python packaging in maemo is really screwed up in diablo |
| 20:52.42 | woglinde | thats break the loop |
| 20:52.48 | jeremiah | Ah, that I did not know. |
| 20:52.50 | woglinde | kherthan so now how to send it |
| 20:52.57 | woglinde | to the thread |
| 20:57.15 | khertan | woglinde: sorry ... |
| 20:57.24 | khertan | i was compiling :) |
| 20:57.29 | woglinde | hm okay |
| 20:57.36 | woglinde | I thought you run away |
| 20:57.42 | khertan | so ... the best way ... subclass the Threading.threads |
| 20:57.42 | woglinde | because the problem was to hard |
| 20:58.02 | woglinde | ???? |
| 20:58.49 | woglinde | its the scapy sniff command |
| 20:58.59 | woglinde | aeh method |
| 20:59.01 | woglinde | sorry |
| 20:59.08 | *** join/#maemo zerojay (n=zerojay@74.198.12.6) |
| 20:59.15 | Stskeeps | wb zerojay |
| 20:59.23 | zerojay | Thanks |
| 20:59.24 | khertan | grrrr ... sorry my nit is freezing |
| 20:59.29 | woglinde | re zerojay |
| 20:59.43 | woglinde | khertan and I dont want to change scapy |
| 20:59.44 | zerojay | Waiting on my wife and kid outside the daycare... Weeeee... |
| 21:00.01 | Stskeeps | and standing with a tablet you probably look like some kind of freak :P |
| 21:00.02 | khertan | i ve found a example : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-May/260937.html |
| 21:00.10 | khertan | scapy ... what that's ? |
| 21:00.23 | woglinde | wireshark for python |
| 21:00.37 | zerojay | If you knew me, you'd know i dont need it to look like a freak, lol |
| 21:00.42 | zerojay | But yes. |
| 21:00.56 | khertan | woglinde: oh nice |
| 21:01.25 | woglinde | khertan hm |
| 21:01.27 | Woolly | has more irn bru |
| 21:01.37 | ShellEvil | has no irn bru. |
| 21:01.43 | Jaffa | ev'ning |
| 21:01.46 | Woolly | laughs |
| 21:01.59 | Woolly | hey Jaffa |
| 21:02.05 | khertan | woglinde: could i see the code ... maybe i ll understand :) |
| 21:02.54 | woglinde | yes |
| 21:02.56 | woglinde | http://pastebin.com/mda7b27a |
| 21:03.16 | ShellEvil | Stskeeps: not nearly as much as walking and smacking into something. |
| 21:03.44 | ShellEvil | http://groups.google.com/group/comp.dcom.telecom/browse_thread/thread/ee8fe28cdcd06ed3 |
| 21:04.03 | Stskeeps | ShellEvil: yeah, i tend to do that with or without tablet |
| 21:04.24 | khertan | woglinde: it s a threading.Threads, isn't it ? |
| 21:04.39 | woglinde | khertan yes it is |
| 21:04.41 | Woolly | ooooh sqlite3 |
| 21:04.49 | woglinde | woolly hm yes |
| 21:04.56 | Woolly | woglinde: what's up? |
| 21:04.57 | woglinde | woolly for the moment |
| 21:05.08 | woglinde | sqlite3 |
| 21:05.32 | Woolly | what's it saying? |
| 21:05.41 | woglinde | hm???? |
| 21:05.43 | khertan | let me a moment i'm trying to look at the scapy api |
| 21:05.43 | Stskeeps | scary, zfs-fuse actually seems to work |
| 21:05.54 | ShadowJK | walking and smackin into something... I do that alot |
| 21:05.59 | woglinde | I thought you meant my code at pastebin |
| 21:06.21 | ShadowJK | most annoying when it makes mp3 player/phone/whatever skip to next podcast |
| 21:06.42 | ShadowJK | but I discovered last week that S60 media player is smart enough to remember where you were in the last podcast, and resumed from there |
| 21:07.45 | Woolly | oh oh oh King of Queens is on! |
| 21:08.53 | woglinde | khertan I put the comment in the code |
| 21:09.15 | khertan | ok |
| 21:09.18 | *** join/#maemo sivang (i=sivan@muse.19inch.net) |
| 21:09.24 | sivang | hi again |
| 21:09.26 | woglinde | kerthan -> (while(true) loop inside sniff only breaks at keyboradInterrupt) |
| 21:10.18 | woglinde | kerthan I want this in a thread so I can start stoping sniffing and dont have the db connection open all the time |
| 21:11.01 | woglinde | hm but maybee I have to rethink it |
| 21:11.40 | sivang | having an x86 complication target means that nokia will also elease x86 bbased phones? |
| 21:11.42 | ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles, how fast is too fast? (re xchat) |
| 21:12.03 | ShadowJK | having an x86 compilation target means you can test on PC? ;) |
| 21:12.21 | zerojay | yawns. |
| 21:12.28 | khertan | to be honest i didn't understand what you are trying to do ... |
| 21:12.42 | woglinde | khertan ???? |
| 21:13.08 | woglinde | khertan I want sniffig and to start and stop it via telnet interface |
| 21:13.13 | sivang | ShadowJK: indeed |
| 21:13.36 | khertan | ok |
| 21:13.38 | sivang | ShadowJK: that's the whole idea I guess with the scratchbox and the SDK |
| 21:13.51 | sivang | nice to see the amounts of python :) |
| 21:13.52 | ShadowJK | sivang, I think we're more likely to see an ARM based netbook instead of x86 based phone :) |
| 21:14.07 | ShadowJK | Nokia loves python, you can use it on maemo, you can use it on symbian ;-) |
| 21:14.20 | sivang | ShadowJK: you a nokia developer ? |
| 21:14.26 | ShadowJK | No. |
| 21:14.42 | sivang | ShadowJK: since when did they start loving python ? |
| 21:15.09 | ShadowJK | Not sure. I discovered it around 2007, iirc |
| 21:15.17 | ShadowJK | (that I could run python on my symbian phone) |
| 21:15.56 | sivang | is there a way to get preshipped n900s for people with development backgroudn for testing and refining purposes? |
| 21:16.02 | zerojay | Nokia didn't provide python on the tablets. |
| 21:16.30 | zerojay | You aren't getting them any faster than we are. |
| 21:16.40 | zerojay | Weasel. ;) |
| 21:16.56 | sivang | is a former ubuntu developer with pygtk and python experience |
| 21:17.07 | sivang | zerojay: "we" ? |
| 21:17.23 | zerojay | No dev program has been announced yet. |
| 21:17.27 | zerojay | Yes, we. |
| 21:17.34 | sivang | we = ? |
| 21:17.40 | Woolly | me! |
| 21:17.42 | zerojay | As in everyone else in the room. |
| 21:17.42 | ShadowJK | sivang, you, us, everyone |
| 21:18.04 | Stskeeps | zerojay: probably good to wait a little to make sure people -really really- want one :P |
| 21:18.16 | ShadowJK | sivang, it's past midnight on a friday evening in finland. There are not many Nokia people around right now :) |
| 21:18.22 | zerojay | When the dev device program is announced... If it will be. |
| 21:18.42 | sivang | whre do I subscribe to the announcement ? |
| 21:18.44 | Stskeeps | hopes one will be announced |
| 21:18.48 | ShellEvil | also. |
| 21:18.49 | zerojay | Til then, gotta wait. |
| 21:19.00 | khertan | woglinde: it s seems i'm too tired ... i didn't understand nothing at their documentation |
| 21:19.04 | zerojay | Too early for that even. |
| 21:19.09 | khertan | i ll look at it an other day ... sorry |
| 21:19.18 | Stskeeps | sivang: the usual programme bases on your maemo.org 'karma'. this is developed over time due to your contribution to the community, AFAIK |
| 21:19.24 | ShadowJK | My guess would be, that if one is announced, your chances are improved if you have a neat application ready and working in the SDK ;) |
| 21:19.59 | woglinde | khertan scapy? |
| 21:20.08 | khertan | yep |
| 21:20.11 | woglinde | hm |
| 21:20.14 | Firebird | ping? |
| 21:20.20 | woglinde | its not scapy alone |
| 21:20.36 | woglinde | I could rewrite it with out scapy |
| 21:20.39 | Firebird | sees an ever growing block of nothing in xchat which I suspect are messages... too bad I can't see them |
| 21:20.39 | woglinde | mom |
| 21:20.44 | khertan | ok i just undestand ... that it s not a module |
| 21:20.45 | khertan | lol |
| 21:21.01 | sivang | what areas needs work ? |
| 21:21.12 | *** join/#maemo Firebird (n=Firebird@pool-138-88-89-148.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 21:21.20 | ShadowJK | Firebird, messed up colour schemes? |
| 21:21.22 | sivang | is there a way to bug fix stuff before the release ofthe hardware? |
| 21:21.35 | Firebird | no, it was just totally blank, couldn't even highlight it |
| 21:21.35 | zerojay | Sdk |
| 21:21.41 | ShellEvil | Is there a qemu targer? |
| 21:21.42 | ShellEvil | t |
| 21:22.26 | woglinde | khertan -> http://pastebin.com/m47c02bb |
| 21:22.32 | zerojay | Fremantle beta 2 sdk is your friend. |
| 21:22.35 | sivang | zerojay: so if I want to develop an application that needs to have access to the audio transferred through the call, what do I do? |
| 21:23.11 | Firebird | can omap do fixed and floating point? |
| 21:23.11 | zerojay | You look up info on ofono. |
| 21:23.13 | Stskeeps | sivang: those details are not out on SDK yet - but qgil mentioned it on a talk.* thread where you might be able to do something |
| 21:23.19 | Stskeeps | zerojay: ofono isn't in fremantle |
| 21:23.26 | zerojay | No? |
| 21:23.33 | Stskeeps | AFAIK |
| 21:24.44 | zerojay | Don't know if we'll have access to call audio. |
| 21:24.49 | zerojay | Hope not. |
| 21:24.57 | Stskeeps | evil apps time or? :P |
| 21:25.18 | Stskeeps | not sure why you would want access to it really |
| 21:25.27 | zerojay | To record it. |
| 21:25.43 | zerojay | Without the other person's knowledge. |
| 21:25.54 | zerojay | Illegal in some countries. |
| 21:25.56 | ShadowJK | Also the "fuck off, telemarketers" button |
| 21:26.02 | Stskeeps | it's a tough discussion really |
| 21:26.20 | Stskeeps | i really wouldn't mind to have a timeline of calls, or able to hear the convo again, cos my memory is shot :) |
| 21:26.45 | ShadowJK | What are the chances of cellphone voice input/output being hooked up to line-in and line-out on the sound device? |
| 21:26.48 | sivang | I was actually thinking of a VoiceWiki applications |
| 21:26.50 | zerojay | Ask first then. ;) |
| 21:26.56 | sivang | much like tomboy, but using recorded notes |
| 21:27.10 | Stskeeps | sivang: oh, i would just use the microphone then :P |
| 21:27.54 | sivang | ah, so we have access tothe mic as a regular sound device in a PC ? |
| 21:28.07 | zerojay | We don't know. |
| 21:28.16 | zerojay | It's too early. |
| 21:28.44 | Stskeeps | sivang: big probability really - but on n8x0, it was a .. fairly regular sound device |
| 21:28.55 | sivang | cool |
| 21:28.59 | *** join/#maemo eocanha (n=eocanha@130.152.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 21:29.30 | sivang | I also have an idea of and automatic emergency call app |
| 21:29.43 | ArSa | there's an app for iPhone that can record calls in software, i don't think you need to go through all DAC-ADC excersise... |
| 21:29.59 | sivang | it will call 911 or the applicable in a given country |
| 21:30.14 | sivang | and talk to the operator your location using the n900's built in GPS |
| 21:30.33 | Stskeeps | often this comes along anyway in 911 calls |
| 21:30.35 | sivang | ofcourse we nee speech synthesizers for that |
| 21:30.43 | sivang | Stskeeps: how do you mean? |
| 21:30.50 | Stskeeps | no idea if N900 does it like that though |
| 21:30.56 | Stskeeps | google E911 |
| 21:30.59 | ArSa | in USA 911 already can do that even without gps, but you probably know that |
| 21:31.03 | ArSa | yeah, e911 |
| 21:31.06 | ArSa | not as accurate though |
| 21:31.23 | sivang | I'm in Israel, so I didn't know that :) |
| 21:31.26 | ArSa | same in most other countries too |
| 21:31.42 | ArSa | you can track people, it's a feature of many operators |
| 21:31.44 | Stskeeps | still, if there's a gps fix it could send it along i guess :P |
| 21:31.51 | ArSa | but again, sometimes very inacurate |
| 21:31.53 | ShadowJK | Yeah in .fi the 112 (911 equiv.) can triangulate the caller's position |
| 21:32.20 | sivang | good for the developing countries :) |
| 21:32.22 | ArSa | gps would be better, i wonder if e911 has provision to send that stuff over too |
| 21:33.29 | ArSa | it does go the other way - A-GPS can piggyback on that data (well, not that - no triangulation, just base station position) |
| 21:33.47 | simula | 112 is the international emergency GSM number if i'm not mistaken |
| 21:33.49 | zerojay | Not sure i wanna trust a program to call 911 for me. Heh |
| 21:34.12 | ArSa | well, i am assuming it's for cases when you can't take phone out |
| 21:34.23 | ArSa | which already works on most phones |
| 21:34.33 | sivang | what if you're a mute? |
| 21:34.34 | ArSa | sans actually yelling "help!" |
| 21:34.45 | ArSa | TTY :P |
| 21:34.48 | Stskeeps | augmented calls could be interesting though |
| 21:34.52 | Stskeeps | like, in general |
| 21:34.57 | ArSa | um |
| 21:35.02 | sivang | Stskeeps: ofcourse, there's pleathora of applications |
| 21:35.07 | ArSa | like google latitude? |
| 21:35.14 | Stskeeps | click a button to tell the other person your current position for instance >P |
| 21:35.21 | ArSa | it's augmented chatting |
| 21:35.22 | Stskeeps | auditory smilies! |
| 21:35.23 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 21:35.29 | sivang | heh |
| 21:35.31 | zerojay | Ew |
| 21:35.33 | sivang | what's google latitude ? |
| 21:35.40 | ShadowJK | Or ability to select some text in an email or web page and have voice synth read it up to the other person |
| 21:35.49 | zerojay | Don't worry, no one uses latitude. |
| 21:35.56 | ArSa | sivang lets you follow your friends on map |
| 21:36.04 | ArSa | yeah, it's very hardware-limited, so... |
| 21:36.10 | sivang | ah , I see |
| 21:36.15 | ArSa | can't run in background on iphone, and nobody has gphone yet |
| 21:36.22 | ArSa | would be a nice app for n900 though |
| 21:36.35 | javispedro | ability to make plain phone calls would be good too. |
| 21:36.41 | sivang | uses GSM data link ? |
| 21:36.47 | VDVsx | latitude is good for stalkers, at least ;) |
| 21:37.00 | ArSa | sivang of course, all map apps do now |
| 21:37.16 | ArSa | VDVsx are you saying that all google employees are stalkers? :P |
| 21:37.27 | sivang | well, you could have map stored on the machine, and use blutooth or something...ah no, you have to hav a GPS conneciton |
| 21:37.46 | ShadowJK | sivang, what's the situation in Israel, do phones support hebrew well? Do people use it? |
| 21:37.57 | sivang | ShadowJK: you mean, in text and UI ? |
| 21:38.00 | ArSa | simula bluetooth for what? |
| 21:38.01 | ShadowJK | yes |
| 21:38.17 | VDVsx | ArSa, depends if you are a gog employee or not, don't want to offend you ;) |
| 21:38.20 | simula | ArSa.. wasn't paying attention... what? |
| 21:38.20 | ArSa | sivang bluetooth for what? gps is not really a "connection" |
| 21:38.21 | VDVsx | just kidding |
| 21:38.29 | sivang | ShadowJK: yes, most models do support hebrew well and people are using it. |
| 21:38.38 | sivang | ArSa: sorry, I have no idea what I was talking about |
| 21:38.42 | ArSa | VDVsx i was too :) |
| 21:38.52 | sivang | ShadowJK: not sure if E71 supports it |
| 21:38.54 | Stskeeps | odd question - since there's some new mobile developers here - what kind of background / previous platforms were you at before? |
| 21:38.57 | ArSa | sivang "blutooth or something...ah no, you have to hav a GPS conneciton" - what's that about? |
| 21:39.18 | simula | Stskeeps... Qt :) |
| 21:39.19 | ArSa | Stskeeps .net |
| 21:39.38 | ArSa | i am doing pyqt on maemo though |
| 21:39.41 | sivang | ArSa: I thought you could locate friends using bluetooth, but that's nonsense |
| 21:39.44 | khertan | woglinde: still here ? |
| 21:39.48 | RST38h | moo all |
| 21:39.59 | khertan | woglinde: ping |
| 21:40.07 | ArSa | sivang oh, that. yeah, there are actually some apps like that, but it's not working far enough. |
| 21:40.20 | Stskeeps | ArSa: i think we should have pyside soon as well |
| 21:40.22 | ArSa | sivang they can tell you when your friends are in range |
| 21:40.24 | khertan | ~woglinde |
| 21:40.27 | zerojay | Bluetooth is useless for that. |
| 21:40.28 | ShadowJK | sivang, that's possible, within 10 metres ;) |
| 21:40.39 | khertan | hum ... someone know the woglinde mail ? |
| 21:40.41 | sivang | ArSa: how can you triangulate someone's location based on bluetooth? |
| 21:40.58 | ArSa | sivang it doesn't |
| 21:41.07 | ArSa | just tells you they are close |
| 21:41.12 | *** join/#maemo shazaum (n=shazaum@201-34-141-194.fnsce704.e.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 21:41.14 | sivang | I come from PyGTK , should I learn pyqt instead if I want to develop for the N900 ? |
| 21:41.16 | Stskeeps | sivang: with a lot of infrastructure :/ |
| 21:41.18 | khertan | woglinde: http://pastebin.com/m2c800b1 |
| 21:41.20 | ShadowJK | Bluetooth has limited range. Maybe 10 metres (30ft). So you can tell if someone is close by or not |
| 21:41.26 | slonopotamus | is pyside useful at all? |
| 21:41.27 | sivang | Stskeeps: eh |
| 21:41.37 | slonopotamus | pyqt, no? |
| 21:41.40 | Stskeeps | sivang: (triangulate) |
| 21:41.42 | khertan | slonopotamus: when it will be available :) |
| 21:41.47 | khertan | good night |
| 21:41.51 | ArSa | Stskeeps well, it's interesting that there are two competing implementations for some reason. |
| 21:41.57 | slonopotamus | khertan, how it's better than qt? |
| 21:42.01 | sivang | are there translations projects for the stack already ? |
| 21:42.02 | ShadowJK | sivang, Maemo 5 freemantle on N900 will be GTK/Hildon based, with support for QT. Looks like GTK/Hildon will be the "primary" toolkit |
| 21:42.10 | slonopotamus | khertan, pyqt, i meant |
| 21:42.12 | sivang | ShadowJK: yay! |
| 21:42.16 | Stskeeps | however, they're going to switch to Qt in Harmattan |
| 21:42.17 | ShadowJK | in the long term nokia is moving to QT though |
| 21:42.17 | sivang | loves GTJ |
| 21:42.29 | sivang | oh.. |
| 21:42.30 | simula | loves Qt |
| 21:42.44 | Stskeeps | either one of them will be possible to use though |
| 21:42.50 | slonopotamus | loves his wife |
| 21:42.57 | sivang | is single |
| 21:43.04 | Stskeeps | glances at his wedding ring |
| 21:43.05 | ArSa | i just want app to easily move between platforms, qt is kinda better for that for now. |
| 21:43.14 | Stskeeps | at least Maemo isn't picky |
| 21:43.20 | sivang | orders a pyqt book |
| 21:43.30 | Stskeeps | if you were machocistic enough, you could go for wxwidgets probably, heh |
| 21:43.31 | slonopotamus | hates python |
| 21:43.37 | ArSa | yeah, i know |
| 21:43.46 | ArSa | these are the only two choices for portable mobile stuff |
| 21:43.59 | sivang | I want to work on the os and applications, not neccessarily on UI, what should I Know for that? |
| 21:44.01 | ArSa | but wxwidgets symbian port got stuck |
| 21:44.29 | ArSa | sivang anything that is useful |
| 21:44.35 | Stskeeps | sivang: OS is the traditional unix hacker stuff :P shell script, C, etc.. |
| 21:44.46 | Stskeeps | applications in fremantle can be either qt or gtk |
| 21:44.53 | ArSa | yeah, if you want to hack kernel you just need c |
| 21:45.04 | Stskeeps | and a crosscompiler, but yeah |
| 21:45.05 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 21:45.16 | ArSa | and a computer, but yeah :P |
| 21:46.40 | ShadowJK | I guess lcuk still compiles on device :) |
| 21:46.59 | Stskeeps | i think i have once tried to build maemo kernel on device |
| 21:47.08 | shazaum | maemo run pc? |
| 21:47.09 | *** join/#maemo nelson (n=nelson@rrcs-72-43-17-200.nys.biz.rr.com) |
| 21:47.36 | ArSa | that's nothing, i once tried transcoding a movie so i could watch it |
| 21:47.38 | sivang | Stskeeps, ArSa : cool |
| 21:47.53 | *** join/#maemo tonikitoo (n=tonikito@201-75-48-140-ma.cpe.vivax.com.br) |
| 21:47.58 | ArSa | sivang if you are into books, there's actually a linux kernel book |
| 21:48.01 | sivang | does it have mono port ? |
| 21:48.14 | sivang | ArSa: RML's ? |
| 21:48.19 | shazaum | anyone? |
| 21:48.28 | Stskeeps | shazaum: wiki.maemo.org/Mer sortof |
| 21:49.00 | shazaum | Stskeeps tks |
| 21:49.03 | ArSa | http://www.amazon.com/Linux-Core-Kernel-Commentary-2nd/dp/1588801497/ |
| 21:49.11 | ArSa | saw that in a store long time ago, kinda funny |
| 21:50.50 | *** join/#maemo n6pfk (n=mike@96.238.186.191) |
| 21:51.03 | sivang | I have RML's book |
| 21:51.08 | sivang | but it's not trivial to read it |
| 21:51.34 | ArSa | duh |
| 21:51.39 | *** join/#maemo blassey (n=blassey@c-71-232-22-29.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:52.21 | *** join/#maemo tonikitoo (n=tonikito@201-75-48-140-ma.cpe.vivax.com.br) |
| 21:52.59 | ArSa | but it's worth it, i remember reading Stroustrup's c++ book as my intro to the language. took a while. |
| 21:53.12 | sivang | ArSa: that's a master piece |
| 21:54.35 | ArSa | anyways. practice is better than reading. depends on your stage though, if you are at the point where you can RTFM or not. |
| 21:55.02 | ArSa | and stuff that you use has to be figureoutable |
| 21:55.11 | ArSa | unfortunately, there are lots of languages/api's that are not |
| 21:56.49 | sivang | i see |
| 21:56.58 | sivang | anybody know what this happens? http://paste.ubuntu.com/261169/ |
| 21:57.19 | sivang | something is messing with dbus ? |
| 21:58.15 | ArSa | not sure, you have x server running and configured? |
| 21:58.32 | ArSa | looks like dbus issue though, of course |
| 21:58.53 | sivang | yes, xephyr is running as instricted |
| 21:58.56 | sivang | instructed |
| 21:59.08 | ArSa | oh |
| 21:59.10 | ArSa | "Not enough memory to set up DBusConnection for use with GLib" |
| 21:59.12 | ArSa | hm... |
| 22:00.04 | sivang | odd |
| 22:01.41 | *** join/#maemo GAN800 (n=ryan@2416422hfc34.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 22:02.22 | *** join/#maemo L0cMini9 (n=kki@94.161.36.38) |
| 22:02.39 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@91-115-211-3.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 22:02.39 | RST38h | ah, tear crashed! |
| 22:02.55 | RST38h | out of memory. |
| 22:03.04 | sivang | plenty of swap |
| 22:03.08 | sivang | 10MB free in ram |
| 22:03.09 | sivang | odd |
| 22:03.19 | RST38h | normal |
| 22:04.17 | sivang | normal tohave not enough ememory error ? |
| 22:04.21 | *** join/#maemo yerga (n=yerga@87.223.74.91) |
| 22:04.35 | RST38h | that too |
| 22:05.09 | ShadowJK | RST38h, swap disabled? |
| 22:06.10 | RST38h | yep |
| 22:06.40 | RST38h | btw know why talk pages are so large |
| 22:06.44 | *** join/#maemo lardman (n=vircuser@78.145.165.218) |
| 22:06.48 | lardman | evening all |
| 22:06.59 | javispedro | hi |
| 22:07.21 | woglinde | jo lardman |
| 22:07.27 | RST38h | if any of you know reggie ask him to switch to the old urchin.js for google anallytics |
| 22:07.42 | javispedro | bah, the fake multitouch in n8x0 is useless. |
| 22:07.46 | lardman | anything exciting happened today? ;) |
| 22:08.00 | lardman | javispedro: which app? |
| 22:08.00 | RST38h | i would tell him myself but i am nobody to him |
| 22:08.05 | jeremiah | Nothing bacon related. |
| 22:08.08 | RST38h | moo lardmannn |
| 22:08.14 | javispedro | lardman, my own... |
| 22:08.16 | lardman | jeremiah: :D |
| 22:08.22 | jeremiah | :] |
| 22:08.26 | zerojay | Bacon? |
| 22:08.28 | lardman | javispedro: ah, what are you trying? |
| 22:08.41 | lardman | zerojay: where my nick came from |
| 22:09.03 | javispedro | mostly what liqbase does, |
| 22:09.04 | lardman | zerojay: could only cook egg & bacon when I went to uni, so was known as lardman due to my cooking |
| 22:09.28 | javispedro | trying to use the fact that the screen registers two-presses as the average of both |
| 22:09.32 | javispedro | but that's far from true |
| 22:09.33 | zerojay | Lol |
| 22:09.41 | jeremiah | lardman: Oh, is that where it came from? |
| 22:09.44 | jeremiah | Didn't know that. |
| 22:09.51 | zerojay | I'm just fat, lol |
| 22:09.53 | lardman | yeah, I'm not all that lardy really |
| 22:09.59 | jeremiah | heh |
| 22:10.10 | lardman | though I'll work on it over the summit with food & beer :) |
| 22:10.15 | jeremiah | Lard has lost its fashion cache |
| 22:10.22 | *** join/#maemo croppa (n=stuart@135.27.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 22:10.22 | jeremiah | Oh yeah, forget about it. |
| 22:10.25 | lardman | it'll come back in |
| 22:10.35 | jeremiah | Amsterdam has great beers and great bars |
| 22:10.43 | jeremiah | Can't wait. |
| 22:10.48 | zerojay | is large and in charge or something like that. |
| 22:10.52 | jeremiah | Reminds me, should work on my presentation |
| 22:10.53 | lardman | I've only been there once before and only for a day or so, should be good |
| 22:10.57 | lardman | :) |
| 22:11.04 | RichiH | off topic, but can anyone tell me where to copy music files on a E75? |
| 22:11.10 | mgedmin | remembers this one sushi bar in Amsterdam quite fondly |
| 22:11.18 | RichiH | none of the directories on the phone seem as if they were the right choce |
| 22:11.21 | lardman | javispedro: I understand the averaging bit, but what are you using it for? |
| 22:11.21 | RichiH | choice, too |
| 22:11.31 | RST38h | richi: e:/music |
| 22:11.49 | RichiH | there is not music/, only a Sounds/ |
| 22:12.03 | RST38h | sounds/ will do |
| 22:12.03 | javispedro | lardman, ability to press two onscreen buttons at once, knowing which one is the first. |
| 22:12.31 | lardman | ah |
| 22:12.35 | RST38h | although you can make yolur own dir |
| 22:13.10 | RichiH | RST38h: in that case, i will create music/ and just try |
| 22:13.11 | lardman | javispedro: and the "average" point is not actually half way between, depending on how much pressure the user has on each finger I guess? |
| 22:13.26 | lardman | which also changes as they press the second no doubt :) |
| 22:13.43 | javispedro | not only that, but the weights are different for x and y. |
| 22:14.10 | lardman | really? that's odd |
| 22:14.24 | javispedro | i currently do a quick loop over all onscreen to widgets then modify their "virtual" position with an algoritm that depends on pressure, distance from the current point, and experimental constants ;) |
| 22:14.40 | javispedro | (where current point is initial press x,y) |
| 22:16.42 | javispedro | because the more farther away the two presses are, the more near the initial point the average is. |
| 22:16.56 | lardman | is that just due to the pressure? |
| 22:17.21 | javispedro | I do bit presses with a stylus currently. |
| 22:17.25 | javispedro | *both presses. |
| 22:17.43 | javispedro | hm. Why I have this feeling presses is not the word I want. |
| 22:17.44 | lardman | still if you press one harder if will appear closer to that one I guess? |
| 22:17.50 | javispedro | true. |
| 22:17.58 | lardman | no, press(es) is right |
| 22:18.19 | lardman | a press, etc. You could say tap, but that indicates a quick movement |
| 22:18.32 | javispedro | ok :) |
| 22:19.49 | lardman | javispedro: have you talked with lcuk? He was testing multitouch a while back |
| 22:20.34 | *** join/#maemo croppa (n=stuart@135.27.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) |
| 22:21.16 | lcuk | burps |
| 22:21.18 | mgedmin | tap = press + small pause + release |
| 22:21.29 | lardman | yeah, was just looking to see if you were in the userlist :) |
| 22:21.36 | javispedro | heh |
| 22:21.42 | lcuk | "the hangover" is a wicked movie |
| 22:21.54 | lardman | movie or general feeling for tomorrow morning? |
| 22:22.04 | lcuk | movie itself |
| 22:22.10 | javispedro | heh. Totally true. |
| 22:22.13 | lcuk | gonna get some wicked code in tonight |
| 22:22.35 | lardman | wine or beer? |
| 22:22.43 | RichiH | RST38h: nope, just creating a music/ did not work |
| 22:23.10 | zerojay | Work for what? |
| 22:23.51 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@143.84-49-131.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:24.15 | VDVsx | OT: anyone knows a tool to monitor the external connections that an website makes when loading ? FF add-on, ... |
| 22:24.22 | javispedro | bah, removing all my "hidden constants" from the code, and testing again with two stylus results in 100% precision |
| 22:24.25 | javispedro | so it's a pressure thing. |
| 22:25.11 | javispedro | (cause seems the digitizer has a hard time calculating the stylus pressure, I guess it uses contact area?) |
| 22:25.24 | lardman | VDVsx: no, but you could just monitor all the TCP connections and see which ones are used |
| 22:26.28 | zerojay | Iptraf is good for that. |
| 22:27.02 | RichiH | zerojay: i have a e75 and i have _no_ idea how to put music onto this damned thing |
| 22:27.16 | johnsq | VDVsx: tcpdump port 80 |
| 22:27.29 | RichiH | the fact that imap on the e75 is totally broken does not help to improve my mood ;) |
| 22:28.06 | ShadowJK | RichiH, i used bluetooth to transfer files :) |
| 22:28.12 | ShadowJK | except it's a bit slow |
| 22:28.23 | VDVsx | thanks lardman & johnsq |
| 22:28.25 | ShadowJK | so I just put the memory card in my computer instead :/ |
| 22:28.29 | ShadowJK | has a E75 too |
| 22:28.39 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N810 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:28.45 | mgedmin | VDVsx: firebug |
| 22:28.56 | ShadowJK | I haven't tried imap, because my imap server is behind a OpenVPN server, and there are no openvpn clients for symbian :/ |
| 22:28.57 | mgedmin | it's an awesome firefox addon |
| 22:29.12 | mgedmin | likes his imap to be tunneled over ssh |
| 22:29.21 | VDVsx | mgedmin, I have it :) |
| 22:29.37 | ShadowJK | mgedmin, oh yeah, that would work too |
| 22:29.44 | ShadowJK | I have to find the time to set it up on my phone though :) |
| 22:29.57 | *** part/#maemo zerojay (n=zerojay@74.198.12.6) |
| 22:30.05 | mgedmin | what I do (for mailers that allow it) is use my ssh pubkey to authenticate with the imap server |
| 22:30.26 | mgedmin | no need to store passwords in plaintext, ssh passphrase gets cached by ssh-agent |
| 22:30.33 | mgedmin | sadly, very few mailers support this |
| 22:30.39 | mgedmin | offlineimap and evolution basically |
| 22:30.42 | mgedmin | and evolution sucks |
| 22:30.47 | ShadowJK | indeed |
| 22:31.05 | lardman | RichiH: how or where? |
| 22:31.16 | ShadowJK | I don't trust my imap server, that's why it's not accessible via public internet |
| 22:31.37 | johnsq | wauw n900 is more expensive as first sayed, which idiot buys this? |
| 22:31.39 | lardman | RichiH: you may find it scans the memory card automatically when it's remounted, as for how, what about a usb/BT connection + the Nokia app? |
| 22:31.56 | lardman | johnsq: where's that from? |
| 22:32.00 | RichiH | lardman: i know it rescans, but it did not find my mp3s |
| 22:32.08 | johnsq | http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/28/nokia-n900-now-giving-germany-and-italy-a-way-to-pre-order/ |
| 22:32.10 | lardman | ah, interesting |
| 22:32.14 | RichiH | i used usb, mass storage mode & normal mounting |
| 22:32.16 | VDVsx | mgedmin, great :), thanks |
| 22:32.19 | RichiH | as i don't have wino |
| 22:32.20 | lardman | RichiH: that was for you btw |
| 22:32.28 | RichiH | as i don't have windows, there is no nokia pps for me |
| 22:32.43 | lardman | RichiH: in which case I have no idea, having an old and crappy phone |
| 22:32.45 | mgedmin | is that 600 EUR including VAT? |
| 22:33.08 | johnsq | mgedmin: in germany it normaly must be inc. VAT |
| 22:33.15 | lardman | johnsq: yeah, it's ~99euros more expensive iirc -> local taxes as it said in the initial announcement |
| 22:33.32 | mgedmin | because the nokia press release said "price expected to be 500 EUR, not including VAT/sales tax" |
| 22:33.34 | RichiH | lardman: pity. thanks, though |
| 22:33.41 | ShadowJK | The 500E was excl VAT |
| 22:33.52 | johnsq | lardman: i thought this price is very much too high for a phone which is 1/2 year out of date |
| 22:33.53 | RichiH | 19% VAT in .de |
| 22:33.59 | mgedmin | it was shortened to just "about 500 EUR" when quoted in various blogs, though |
| 22:34.20 | RichiH | 500 + 500/100*19 ~ 599 |
| 22:35.59 | lardman | johnsq: out of date?! |
| 22:36.09 | lardman | what do you mean? |
| 22:36.18 | johnsq | lardman: some better phones are comeing for sure. |
| 22:36.24 | RichiH | also, i heard people talk about community vouchers or some such for the n900? |
| 22:36.37 | lardman | people were wondering if there would be any |
| 22:36.38 | lardman | no news |
| 22:36.40 | qwerty12_N810 | lardman: it's using an OMAP3 instead of an OMAP4, it's OLD |
| 22:36.46 | *** join/#maemo Omegamoon (n=egoe@demolitionman.xs4all.nl) |
| 22:36.48 | lardman | qwerty12_N810: lol :) |
| 22:37.12 | *** join/#maemo sivang (n=shir@ubuntu/member/sivang) |
| 22:37.21 | *** join/#maemo zimmerle (n=zimmerle@189.70.8.118) |
| 22:37.27 | sivang | so, it's running |
| 22:37.32 | sivang | now what can I do with it? |
| 22:37.47 | lardman | what is it? |
| 22:37.57 | sivang | the UI inside scratchbox :) |
| 22:38.04 | lardman | ah ok |
| 22:38.10 | lardman | run your app |
| 22:38.10 | lcuk | theres a ui? |
| 22:38.11 | sivang | I also executed the status , but no status appears |
| 22:38.20 | lardman | lcuk: yeah, not very exciting though |
| 22:38.22 | lcuk | can you touch it? |
| 22:38.29 | sivang | using the mouse |
| 22:38.33 | lardman | only if you have a touch screen PC ;) |
| 22:38.36 | lcuk | oh, cute |
| 22:39.32 | lcuk | should setup vnc server on it |
| 22:39.33 | lcuk | and run vncclient from tablet |
| 22:39.37 | *** join/#maemo mrmcq2u (n=mrmcq2u@78.16.38.102) |
| 22:39.38 | lcuk | get a much better feel for things |
| 22:40.13 | lardman | lcuk: I guess we're talking about diablo here |
| 22:40.20 | javispedro | it's out of date already, resistencitive screens are so last century.. |
| 22:40.45 | lcuk | whats wrong with resistive |
| 22:40.45 | sivang | so, how can I help work on a bug like [Bug 2878] Very poor satellite acquisition with internal GPS ? |
| 22:40.54 | javispedro | it's not capancitantive |
| 22:40.57 | sivang | my PC bpx has not GPS :-p |
| 22:40.59 | javispedro | D: |
| 22:41.00 | ShadowJK | sivang, that bug is impossible :) |
| 22:41.22 | lcuk | javispedro, when its cold and you have gloves on |
| 22:41.35 | lcuk | or if you are a girl who has long fingernails |
| 22:41.48 | lcuk | or someone who likes to write |
| 22:41.51 | javispedro | then you kill someone, grab their finger while it's still hot and use it. |
| 22:41.54 | lcuk | capacitive sucks |
| 22:42.16 | javispedro | that's what an iphone user would say ;P |
| 22:42.22 | lcuk | plus, those screens get all smeary |
| 22:42.33 | lcuk | hates people touching his monitor |
| 22:42.45 | ShadowJK | A summary: Without A-GPS, time to first fix is very long, and very sensitive to poor signal and other disturbances. With A-GPS, it's OK-ish. Once fix has been acquired, the GPS is quite good. The GPS chip uses a proprietary Texas Instruments protocol, which is not documented. The driver source is not available. Therefore, there's nothing we can do to help there |
| 22:42.50 | lardman | sivang: there;s nothing to be done for that bug |
| 22:42.53 | *** join/#maemo blassey1 (n=blassey@c-71-232-22-29.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 22:42.56 | javispedro | just joking of course; I couldn't live without a stylus :D |
| 22:43.08 | lcuk | i could most of the time |
| 22:43.12 | lcuk | ive said that for ages |
| 22:43.22 | lcuk | i love a finger friendly ui in general menus |
| 22:43.27 | lcuk | so easy with stylus |
| 22:43.40 | ShellEvil | ShadowJK: which isn't 1000% true - you can snoop the protocol and reverse it. |
| 22:43.51 | lardman | with capacitive though, you never get fingerprints on the screen as you don't have to touch it ;) |
| 22:43.53 | javispedro | bah, diablo's sdl doesn't report pressure, so I'll best forget about the whole thing. |
| 22:43.54 | lcuk | but then in the little programs that need it, the stylus stops a kids interface |
| 22:43.55 | mrmcq2u | Hi, I heard some people complain that the n900 had a resistive screen... From what I know about resistive screens they allow more input options than capacitive. I heard some say that because it uses resistive it cannot have multi-touch features. But I have seen several resistive multi touch screens. Couldnt the n900 gain multitouch features if the software was adapted and something like mpx was used? Is mpx in the roadmap for maemo? |
| 22:43.56 | RichiH | by definition, nothing is 1000% true |
| 22:43.58 | ShellEvil | ShadowJK: after all - you know the input data, you know the output data, ... |
| 22:44.03 | ShadowJK | ShellEvil, yes, that's true. |
| 22:44.19 | ShadowJK | However, we don't even know if this is something that could be fixed in software :) |
| 22:44.26 | lardman | mrmcq2u: probably not as it requires a special screen with more connections |
| 22:44.28 | lcuk | javispedro, pressure is xsp library |
| 22:44.29 | mrmcq2u | just realised people where talking about this already |
| 22:44.32 | ShellEvil | ShadowJK: It almost certaintly can. |
| 22:44.54 | javispedro | lcuk, could you elaborate? I though pressure info came with Motion events or the like? |
| 22:44.59 | lardman | ShellEvil: why so certain? |
| 22:45.03 | lcuk | // Pressure gradient: |
| 22:45.03 | lcuk | // 100 == MEDIC! |
| 22:45.03 | lcuk | // 150 == ouch |
| 22:45.03 | lcuk | // 200 == ahhh |
| 22:45.03 | lcuk | // 300 == you there |
| 22:45.03 | lcuk | // 450 == hello? |
| 22:45.07 | sivang | wonders why the status doesn't work |
| 22:45.07 | lcuk | yeah |
| 22:45.16 | lcuk | xsp supplies a new set of x11 events |
| 22:45.32 | lcuk | and gives pressure results like that ^ |
| 22:45.38 | javispedro | but you use raw ts mode? |
| 22:45.46 | lcuk | they are raw events coming from the touchscreen itself |
| 22:45.52 | lcuk | so are much higher res than the screen |
| 22:45.55 | ShellEvil | lardman: because of the design of the chip as revealed in the TI docs, the limited info I have on the software - and research into GPS from trying to reverse engineer the last one. |
| 22:45.55 | javispedro | hum. |
| 22:45.57 | lcuk | and must be scaled back down |
| 22:45.59 | javispedro | so how you calibrate? |
| 22:46.10 | lcuk | i never found it to be drastically off |
| 22:46.18 | VDVsx | sivang, there's a lottttttttt of components missing in the SDK ;) |
| 22:46.19 | lcuk | no1 else ever complained |
| 22:46.43 | lardman | ShellEvil: what do you see the problem being, assuming it's not poor reception due to antenna placement? |
| 22:46.43 | javispedro | that means either raw events are somehow calibrated or those screens were very good quality.. |
| 22:46.46 | RichiH | one thing which i did find nothing about, yet.. does the n900 have a proper saphir glas screen? |
| 22:46.49 | sivang | VDVsx: but I ran the proggy |
| 22:46.58 | lcuk | javispedro, theres not a long way they can go wrong |
| 22:47.05 | sivang | VDVsx: why is it mentioned in the SDK docs if it doesn't do a thing |
| 22:47.07 | lcuk | and if someone is moaning enough and needing calibration |
| 22:47.14 | lcuk | theres usually a bigger problem anyway |
| 22:47.19 | lcuk | i know ive never calibrated this |
| 22:47.26 | lcuk | i only found out it had it recently |
| 22:47.54 | lcuk | sivang, cos you might want to develop for your device |
| 22:47.56 | lcuk | with the sdk |
| 22:48.02 | lcuk | you can compile things |
| 22:48.07 | mrmcq2u | lardman - have the specs of how many connections the n900 has been made publicly available yet? |
| 22:48.07 | ShellEvil | lardman: It's searching for the satellites. The satellites can be for each satellite (in RF space) in any spot in a two dimensional space - First axis is frequency - this changes with doppler, and local clock drift. Second axis is phase offset to the CDMA signal that repeats at 1ms |
| 22:48.10 | lcuk | wtf did you expect tho, all software gps? |
| 22:48.14 | ShellEvil | lardman: offset to the local clock |
| 22:48.31 | sivang | lcuk: can I not simulate the status line program on the SDK ? |
| 22:48.48 | lcuk | not if its reading a hardware gps |
| 22:48.55 | ShellEvil | lardman: it's faster with a-gps as you can instead of searching the whole range - go directly there. |
| 22:48.58 | lcuk | cmon you are trollin |
| 22:49.04 | lcuk | no1 could be that thick |
| 22:49.18 | lardman | ShellEvil: I understand how the system works, but how do you think tweaking the sw will improve things? |
| 22:49.54 | lardman | if it could be done |
| 22:49.55 | lcuk | just run it on your tablet once you use the sdk to build it |
| 22:50.18 | ShellEvil | lardman: The blob should be able to be given some agps data - that you generate. Or it should be able to store it. How long is startup - there are a couple of possible cases. |
| 22:50.34 | javispedro | don't we have a-gps already?= |
| 22:51.13 | ShellEvil | lardman: you should get a dramatic speedup even after several weeks of no lock. (if you have a clock to within a few mins) |
| 22:51.25 | lardman | ShellEvil: I agree it would be nice to be able to populate nvd_data ourselves, but that's not tweaking the sw |
| 22:52.17 | lardman | fundamentally, I don't see any way of making it faster than it already is (with a good view of the sky and a recent a-gps update) |
| 22:52.23 | mrmcq2u | hopes that the screen technology in the n900 is similar to stantums resistive technology |
| 22:52.35 | lardman | but from what you said, I thought you were saying some sw tweak should be made to the GPS chipset |
| 22:52.54 | ShellEvil | lardman: I'm assuming - as everything I've read seems to indicate (not much) that it's broadly similar to the hammerhead chip that I've looked at before. The chip does all the hard-realtime stuff and talks at a relatively low rate to the CPU - which then does the hard maths to work out a position, |
| 22:53.02 | ShellEvil | lardman: and controlls acquisition. |
| 22:53.25 | pH5 | do know yet what gps chip is in the n900? |
| 22:53.28 | lardman | with the hammerhead the cpu does the maths? |
| 22:53.39 | pH5 | yup. |
| 22:53.45 | lardman | pH5: not sure, might be in the kernel dump |
| 22:53.53 | lardman | pH5: yup to my question? |
| 22:53.59 | pH5 | yup. |
| 22:54.13 | lardman | hmm, that's not the case, afaiu, for the Ti chip we use |
| 22:54.24 | lardman | Ti5300 or somesuch iirc |
| 22:54.25 | woglinde | hi ph5 |
| 22:54.28 | *** join/#maemo caotic (n=caotic@189.183.26.81) |
| 22:54.36 | pH5 | hej woglinde |
| 22:54.47 | ShellEvil | lardman: yes - it basically gets a - this is hypothesis based on reverse engineering and stuff - list of outputs from integrators on the chip with dozens of values per satellite, along with the datastream (50bps) from each sat. It then computes a position. |
| 22:55.17 | lardman | that's pretty cool, would be interesting to be able to get that data :) |
| 22:55.22 | lardman | but that's not what we have |
| 22:55.32 | mrmcq2u | anyone know the screen vendor that is used with the n900 |
| 22:55.33 | lardman | http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=4663&navigationId=12607&templateId=6123 is what we have |
| 22:55.35 | ShellEvil | lardman: What sort of CPU does the TI thingy use? |
| 22:55.47 | lardman | mrmcq2u: have a look at the kernel patch |
| 22:55.58 | lardman | ShellEvil: no idea, black box |
| 22:56.24 | ShellEvil | lardman: I mean - the blob |
| 22:56.30 | ShellEvil | lardman: % |
| 22:56.41 | RichiH | in case anyone cares, putting mp3s in Sounds/ works |
| 22:56.46 | lardman | sorry, I didn't understand that? |
| 22:56.57 | lardman | RichiH: glad you've sorted it :) |
| 22:57.14 | ShellEvil | lardman: yes - I read that TI note as the heavy lifting for the AGPS is done in the modem - in the usual case. |
| 22:57.25 | RichiH | lardman: me too :) |
| 22:57.28 | ShellEvil | lardman: it may also be done in the SoC |
| 22:57.33 | ShadowJK | The binary gps blob runs on the Omap2 CPU in the N810. Whether it uploads part of itself to the GPS chip or not, who knows :) |
| 22:57.46 | lardman | no that's wrong |
| 22:57.49 | RichiH | now i only need new a cable for my sennheisers and i am good :) |
| 22:57.52 | ShellEvil | lardman: sorry - unclear. The binary blob that I understand is present on the n900 - what % of CPU is used. |
| 22:57.54 | ShadowJK | lardman, oh? |
| 22:58.09 | lardman | gpsdriver is closed source, and talks to the GPS chipset |
| 22:58.17 | ShadowJK | yes |
| 22:58.21 | lardman | but it doesn't upload itself |
| 22:58.34 | ShadowJK | ok |
| 22:58.43 | lardman | in fact iirc the only thing that is uploaded is the nvd_data file which contains the emphemerides, etc |
| 22:58.54 | ShadowJK | iirc, its CPU use is pretty minimal? |
| 22:59.15 | lardman | gpsdriver then creates the "gps" dev entry and spits out the nmea stuff |
| 22:59.43 | lardman | yes, the Ti 5300 contains everything it needs afaik, and only needs to be fed some initialisation data (if available) |
| 22:59.47 | ShellEvil | lardman: why do you think the nvd_data is uploaded - and not used by the blob? |
| 22:59.50 | *** join/#maemo GiantTalkingCow (n=GiantTal@adsl-76-211-230-189.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:59.57 | ShellEvil | (I'm not saying it doesn't ) |
| 23:00.04 | lardman | it contains the almanac and ephemerides |
| 23:00.20 | lardman | what's blob here, hw or sw? |
| 23:00.41 | ShellEvil | lardman: Sure. The GTA01 had a similar file. - and that was entirely used by the binary blob running on the host CPU. |
| 23:01.07 | lardman | I've reverse engineered gpsdriver, not much is sent back to it |
| 23:01.14 | mrmcq2u | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=26989 - one can dream :D |
| 23:01.22 | ShellEvil | lardman: the GPS chip had no firmware. |
| 23:01.35 | ShadowJK | what, GTA01 had a blob? :) |
| 23:01.38 | lardman | hammerhead? |
| 23:01.41 | ShellEvil | lardman: was it a hundred bytes a second or so? |
| 23:01.48 | ShellEvil | lardman: yes |
| 23:01.56 | lardman | I think the Ti 5300 comes with its own firmware |
| 23:02.15 | lardman | I guess even |
| 23:02.25 | lardman | believe might be a better word |
| 23:02.43 | ShellEvil | lardman: the 'back traffic' - as far as we analysed it - wasn't 'here is the almanac' - it was 'tune integrator 3 to 47.8' |
| 23:03.00 | ShellEvil | lardman: and then read out the data a little while later. |
| 23:05.27 | ShellEvil | lardman: again - this is just how I'm reading the limited data I've seen based on the HH - which had a 2 page spec sheet that was _lots_ more detailed than the TI offering. |
| 23:05.30 | lardman | hmm, dunno |
| 23:07.38 | ShellEvil | lardman: basically - it means that they can nuke all of the position calculation stuff and heavy lifting in that area - and leave all the hard maths to another chip in the box which can handle it easily. |
| 23:07.46 | lardman | I suppose looking at the amount of cpu gpsdriver uses would indicate whether it does the heavy lifting |
| 23:08.02 | lardman | yeah sure, I'd not expected that be be done at all |
| 23:08.25 | lardman | interesting idea, I like it :) |
| 23:08.33 | ShellEvil | lardman: if you're not doing the position calculation, you cannot use the ephemeris. |
| 23:08.42 | ShellEvil | lardman: as you have nothing to relate it to. |
| 23:08.58 | lardman | yeah but it could send that data to the chip for it to use of course, that was what I'd assumed |
| 23:09.14 | ShellEvil | lardman: as a datapoint - IIRC the gllin firmware used perhaps 11% of CPU at 200MHz |
| 23:09.53 | lardman | ok, that's certainly significant. It would show if it was doing something useful rather than just reading the chip ever second or so |
| 23:10.15 | lardman | I don't have a view of the sky atm though, so can't really test - I guess not much will happen until it sees sats |
| 23:10.43 | ShellEvil | lardman: The ephemeris is a key thing to use if you are calculating position. You can only use it to aid getting a signal if you can work out the satellite orbits, and your relative speed to them based on your last known position and course. |
| 23:11.19 | ShellEvil | lardman: if it has an ephem - it will presumably tell the chip - 'look for sats 4,19,23' - for example. |
| 23:11.51 | lardman | yes, but I've not tried intercepting the comms |
| 23:12.06 | ShellEvil | lardman: even in the absence of signal. - it won't - unless it's insane or has correlators to spare - ask for ones below the horizon. |
| 23:12.07 | ShellEvil | ah |
| 23:12.07 | lardman | so don't know either way |
| 23:12.39 | ShellEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hammerhead/Protocol is a possibly interesting page |
| 23:14.08 | lardman | thanks, will have a look |
| 23:14.26 | ShellEvil | http://projects.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/sphyrna-devel/ too |
| 23:14.40 | ShellEvil | GPS hacking is fun :) |
| 23:16.14 | ShellEvil | (Currently doing a 'hard' software GPS - _everything_ in software - fed a bitstream at 18M/s from a ADC) :) |
| 23:16.30 | lardman | sounds interesting |
| 23:16.51 | ShadowJK | ShellEvil, your GPS knowledge is impressive :) |
| 23:17.27 | ShellEvil | lardman: If I can get it working - it will be. Currently at the 'timed assembler psuedocode stage' - trying to work out how to pervert instructions into doing stuff they shouldn't - bitslicing and such. |
| 23:18.19 | lardman | Hmm, I wonder how to easily work out whether this file is doing one thing or the other |
| 23:18.56 | ShadowJK | strace? |
| 23:19.19 | ShadowJK | (idea on volume of data transfer) |
| 23:19.24 | ShellEvil | lardman: for the hammerhead - a key way was stracing it - then looking at orbital speeds |
| 23:19.26 | javispedro | it starts with lots of 1byte read. |
| 23:19.27 | ShellEvil | Oooh |
| 23:19.33 | ShellEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/gps.gif |
| 23:19.39 | lardman | yep |
| 23:20.37 | ShellEvil | The splotchy lines are the one aspect of a recieved packet |
| 23:20.53 | javispedro | then does some 140-ish bytes each after receiving around 10 bytes from the gps. |
| 23:20.54 | ShellEvil | the symbols on top of them are computed doppler speeds |
| 23:21.39 | lardman | what are the axes? |
| 23:22.01 | lardman | x=time? |
| 23:22.06 | ShellEvil | Bottom axis is seconds |
| 23:22.27 | lardman | y is a position related value |
| 23:22.39 | ShellEvil | I forget the other axes - looks like m/s * 100 |
| 23:22.41 | ShellEvil | doppler |
| 23:24.00 | lardman | hmm, looks like a proper reverse of gpsdriver might be on the cards then |
| 23:24.23 | ShellEvil | I hacked xephem to output speed to 1cm/s not 1m/s |
| 23:24.35 | ShellEvil | then you simply load int he GPS sats and get a nice tabular list |
| 23:24.38 | ShellEvil | every minute |
| 23:24.45 | ShellEvil | of the dopplers. |
| 23:26.22 | mrmcq2u | lardman - where can I find the kernel patch? would it mention whether there is a pmatrix chipset hiding in there? |
| 23:26.53 | lardman | http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0beta2/free/k/kernel/ |
| 23:27.30 | lardman | grep it for "LCD" or the like |
| 23:27.51 | lardman | you were looking for the screen type weren't you? |
| 23:28.53 | mrmcq2u | yup |
| 23:29.06 | *** join/#maemo GAN8001 (n=ryan@2416422hfc34.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 23:29.22 | mrmcq2u | well figuring out whether it uses any of stantums specs would be great |
| 23:29.22 | GAN8001 | ~ping |
| 23:29.23 | infobot | ~pong |
| 23:30.26 | lardman | hmm, looks like it does some high precision floating point arithmetic in there |
| 23:30.56 | ShadowJK | hmm huh.. |
| 23:31.20 | ShadowJK | high precision and floating point, eh... I guess I'm not used to seeing those two in same context |
| 23:31.37 | lardman | well double anyway :) |
| 23:34.48 | *** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-darl3-0-0-cust663.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 23:35.39 | sivang | i'm running the app installer and get an error |
| 23:35.52 | *** join/#maemo promulo (n=romulo@189.71.101.159) |
| 23:36.29 | lardman | ShellEvil: well, that is very cool, assuming all this floating point stuff is more than just converting from some sort of output format to the nmea stuff, it does indeed offer a chance to improve performance |
| 23:36.53 | lardman | ShellEvil: thanks :) and my apologies for my tone earlier |
| 23:37.28 | lardman | have you added this thought to the bug out of interest? I had certainly written it off as a black box which spat out the location and did all the processing inside, I think others had too |
| 23:39.57 | javispedro | lol, gpsdriver uses the vfp |
| 23:40.06 | javispedro | i though the base system didn't |
| 23:40.19 | lardman | apparently it has reason to do so |
| 23:42.04 | lardman | getting late here, time to hit the sack |
| 23:42.05 | lardman | night all |
| 23:46.22 | javispedro | hah. |
| 23:46.37 | javispedro | i've found it loading Pi as a float |
| 23:48.24 | *** join/#maemo n6pfkk (n=mike@96.238.186.191) |
| 23:50.19 | ShellEvil | lardman|gone: no - |
| 23:50.25 | ShellEvil | oh |
| 23:50.43 | ShellEvil | doesn't know where the bug is. |
| 23:50.55 | *** join/#maemo tonikitoo (n=tonikito@201-75-48-140-ma.cpe.vivax.com.br) |
| 23:51.17 | ShellEvil | (Of course, it's quite possible that they are doing all they can in software, and the chip is fundamentally shitty.) |
| 23:52.57 | javispedro | it does not seem to write a lot to the gps chip, at least while trying to get a lock. |
| 23:53.15 | javispedro | in fact, it has been reading 1 byte values for a few minutes now. |
