IRC log for #maemo on 20090803

00:00.19GeneralAntillesSeptember is still my guess.
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00:03.21chxi know
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05:56.24thuxmorning
05:58.18thuxhow much free space merinstaller needs to run properly in maemo?
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06:02.13StsN810enough to put a initfs uncompressed
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06:14.08thuxStsN810: how much in megabits?
06:14.40StsN810byte, 5-10mb?
06:15.02thuxthat little
06:16.22Macerhm
06:16.26Macertmob is going like 50KB/s
06:16.39Macerwtf is going on.. does ssh have that much bandwidth overhead? :)
06:17.03thuxthen something else is wrong in my maemo
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06:19.05thuxgot 50Mb free space and install process wrote it full twice
06:20.11lardman50Mb free space is the reported space?
06:20.28thuxthen stopped and collapsed
06:20.30lardmanon your internal flash, jffs2 filesystem?
06:20.40thuxyes
06:21.01lardmanthe fs is compressed, it only makes a best guess about how much space it has available
06:21.16thuxdf said
06:21.43thuxok that must be problem
06:21.56lardmanalso, iirc, when a package is installed it's decompressed to tmp, then copied to location. Can't remember if tmp is mounted as a ram disk, but if there's not enough room it will fail
06:23.13thuxthanx
06:23.25sgegmorning guys, is there anywhere I can find real info about how the audio stuff works on these n800/n810?
06:23.28lardmanprobably no help mind you :)
06:23.50lardmansge: real as opposed to imaginary? ;) What do you want to know?
06:24.41sgelardman: hahaa well, I'm kind of intersted in where the sound goes from an application before it goes out..
06:24.56lardmanit goes into the DSP and is output from there
06:25.04sgealways DSP?
06:25.07lardmanvia one of the gstreamer DSP sinks
06:25.08lardmanyes
06:25.31sgethen both gst and esd either have their own code or use alsa_dsp?
06:25.54sgegstreamer DSP sink.. I'll google for those then..
06:26.06sgeI'm kinda trying to get a clue on the entire thing..
06:26.36lardmanthey will all use the DSP pcm sink I imagine, probably wrapped to fit in with whatever they expect
06:26.48lardmannot sure about alsa_dsp
06:27.28lardmanthere are some headers in the repo as well as the GPL arm-side parts of the GStreamer DSP sinks
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06:27.45lardmanwhy the interest? Anything specific?
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06:29.28sgeyea, I'm wondering about the latencies in each of them
06:29.38lardmanah ok
06:29.57sgegives me a headache..
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06:30.48lardmanonce the pipeline is setup I'd have thought the latency would be ok, but if it is repeatedly setup then torn down that might cause problems
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06:31.28lardmanbut I don't know anything about the GStreamer pipeline latencies tbh, and all of my DSP work is with dynamic tasks, which have to be loaded, so not so relevant as the PCM task stuff is always loaded
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06:33.44sgeguess the only way to find out is the hard way..
06:34.04lardmanyep, get timing! :)
06:34.50sgeI'll see what I can do.
06:35.13lardmangive me a shout if I can do anything to help
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07:46.45StskeepsGeneralAntilles, Jaffa: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4871
07:47.19JaffaMorning, all
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07:48.19JaffaStskeeps: ta
07:48.55Stskeepsandre__: ping
07:50.04lardmanhi Jaffa
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08:04.27X-FadeMorning.
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08:04.39andre__Stskeeps, pong
08:04.52Stskeepsandre__: can you check if Extras/Mer has '0.15' as version?
08:05.08Stskeepsand if not, add up to 0.17 or something :)
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08:05.49andre__Stskeeps, will do
08:06.00zsany news about n900? when it will be available to buy?
08:06.11Stskeepszs: none yet, except if there's something in morning news :P
08:06.27tbfzs: when they consider it ready for masses, i guess? ;-)
08:06.39Stskeepsandre__: thanks
08:06.48Stskeepsandre__: remind me to buy you a beverage at summit :P
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08:10.01RST38h"A [British] report recommends that the military scale back its involvement in controlling the drug trade in order to focus solely on security."
08:10.09Stskeepsheh
08:10.27lardmangood thing too, otherwise is pisses off the poppy growers
08:10.29RST38hTakes .AU news source to reveal who controls Afghan drug trade =)
08:11.03RST38hlardman: raises prices and keeps Americans from its share of the pie, I know :)
08:11.30lardmannah more that with no jobs for the (Afghan) boys, they go around blowing up our boys
08:11.56RST38hlardman: They seem to handle both jobs equally well, in the same time
08:12.25lardmanperhaps if demand for heroin rose they'd find farming more useful than RGP-weilding? You never knoe
08:12.27lardmanknow
08:13.16RST38hUnless you experiment of course.
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08:44.12eichi_PDAhello, i need a openstreetmap raw file map viewer
08:44.33eichi_PDAsomeone can tell me some?
08:44.50eichi_PDAor is navit the only one?
08:45.41RST38heichi: Roadmap
08:48.06eichi_PDARST38h, thanks i will try
08:48.56floriangood morning
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08:49.38eichi_PDAi will travel throw england and wales 2 weeks by hichhicking andd need some nice oopenstreetmap data
08:50.04eichi_PDAbut maemo mapper...files will get to big
08:50.24eichi_PDA2gb zoom level 6 wales
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09:11.13RST38h"It all began last month when the man heard a "hissing noise" and thought he "could see vapor" after dropping his 11 year old daughter's iPod Touch. He threw it out the back door of his house and "within 30 seconds there was a pop, a big puff of smoke and it went 10ft in the air."
09:11.37RST38hNow we know why the batteries are non-removable in these...
09:11.50jaskanext: TSA bans ipods
09:11.57RST38hno sht.
09:14.29eichi_PDARST38h, getmaps downloads raw osm data?
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09:23.43RST38hYes
09:24.00RST38hDo keep in mind that Roadmap is kinda shaky, it never worked for me
09:35.09eichi_PDARST38h,  cant get maps
09:35.34RST38hFor me, it just hung
09:35.49RST38hTrying to get maps. I have no idea what the problem was because it seemingly worked for other people
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10:01.59eichiRST38h, same here, maps downloading doesnt work
10:12.09VDVsxlolol: http://twitter.com/chingf0rd/statuses/3092927560
10:12.25Stskeepshehe
10:12.42Luddekheh
10:18.39VDVsxandre__, ping
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10:20.59VDVsxmurrayc, ping
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10:23.06andre__VDVsx, pong
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10:23.22VDVsxandre__, please comment/add more info: http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo_Summit_2009/Submissions#maemo.org_Bug_Management
10:23.24murraycVDVsx: pong
10:23.46VDVsxmurrayc, same :P , please comment/add more info:http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo_Summit_2009/Submissions#Handheld_Glom:_Easy_database_applications.
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10:24.25murraycVDVsx: What info do you need? When I submitted it I included a description.
10:24.45andre__yeah. dave also chatted with me about it. it's on my todo list
10:24.55VDVsxmurrayc, see the comments in the link that I sent
10:24.59murraycVDVsx: I'll answer the dev/user question though.
10:25.08VDVsxandre__, great :)
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10:25.37murraycHow do I add that signature+time to a wiki edit?
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10:25.53andre__Stskeeps, added (Re: Mer)
10:26.07X-Fademurrayc: click on the signature icon ;)
10:26.10Stskeepsandre__: ta!
10:26.28murraycX-Fade: Ah, thanks.
10:26.49X-Fademurrayc: --~~~~
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10:30.35eichirsalveti, i will use navit now
10:30.47eichiits slow, but it works
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10:37.12Stskeepstries to write his first sane blog post in years..
10:40.06VDVsxStskeeps, forget blogs, just twit :P
10:40.18StskeepsVDVsx: hehe
10:40.25Stskeepstwits don't end up on planet :)
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10:42.31VDVsxStskeeps, don't give ideas lol ->  maemo twit planet :)
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10:48.14JaffaAnyone particularly want to advocate the position of disgruntled tmo user on -community (re elections & accounts)?
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11:11.55lamojolaI have my N800 booting from a 2GB SD card.  The boot menu comes up fine, but when I select to boot from the SD card, the blue bar progress continues, and then at some point it goes into a reboot, and I'm back at the menu.  I found some resources on the 770, but that was regarding a MMC issue.  I'm not sure what's going on here, but I'd like to troubleshoot it.  Anybody have a resource online or an idea what's going on
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11:49.55lcuk5lamojola, boot loop problems can occur for a number of reasons, does the device still happily boot from its internal doofer
11:50.53lamojolalcuk5, thanks for the reply.  Yes, it does boot from there fine.  I can work in that environment.
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12:11.31konttori_Hmm.. I'm trying to run clutter hello world on the device with clutter, but having some problems.
12:12.22konttori_it's saying that clutter.Text()   -> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'Text'
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12:13.02lcuk5aint that just rubbin the noses of the users here since i gather most wont be able to reproduce and diagnose the problem :P
12:13.29konttori_umm... well, on desktop, should be the same
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12:19.54banyone around? I've got some serious weird issues
12:21.03RST38hwhat are your serious weird issues?
12:21.55bI'm missing libhildon, with is a depenency for everything, and I have a few packages that apt-get keeps telling me to run apt-get -f install on, but they won't install
12:22.03bsome espeak mammajamma
12:23.12bdid that make sense?
12:23.43RST38hno
12:23.57balright
12:24.03bsay I try to install Maemo Mapper
12:24.13bI am met with this response:
12:24.47bunable to install maemo-mapper
12:24.53bsome application packages are missing
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12:25.05blibhildonfm2
12:25.07blibespeak
12:25.11bespeak-data
12:25.12blibespeak
12:25.39bat first I just thought I was missing a repo or something of the sorts
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12:26.19RST38hWhat device do you have? And what OS?
12:27.07bn800
12:27.14brunning maemo of course
12:27.17RST38hOS version?
12:27.40b4.2008.30-2
12:29.06RST38hYou should upgrade to 5.2008.43-7
12:29.10RST38hThen it will work
12:29.46balright
12:30.25bI live out of a backpack, so this should be fun trying to find that mini usb adapter...
12:32.50bherm, running windows 7 too
12:33.06bit appears very hung up on "installing driver" for the nokia update app
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12:34.35wazdheya all
12:37.18RST38hmoo wazd
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12:42.53Maceroh goddamnit
12:43.03Maceri don't think my car has an obd2 port
12:43.05Macermotherfucker
12:43.19Stskeepsdid you get your 700$ n810 yet? :P
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12:43.57taligHi everyone. I need some gtk/pygtk help. Anyone around with clues?
12:44.00derfMacer: Is your car from, like, the 80's?
12:44.22derfThey were made mandatory in the US in 1996.
12:45.47VDVsxStskeeps, I recommend you the second one, here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B001CZJIIM/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used
12:45.47VDVsx:P
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12:45.47Macerderf: 94 :-P
12:45.53derfShould've spent $700 on a new car.
12:45.58RST38hSts: Is it a collectible or what?
12:45.59Macer:-P
12:46.09Macerthe scantool i have is only for obd2?
12:46.15Macerthe bt one from scantool.net?
12:46.21Macerit says "automatic protocol detection"
12:46.43Macerso does that just mean it detects different obd2 protocols or can detect obd1 and 2 ? :)
12:46.47StskeepsVDVsx: i've had a commercial dropping in my front door trying to sell me a n810 for ~1549 usd.
12:47.04derfConsult your documentation.
12:47.18Macerderf: i don't have the scantool here yet ;) but i'll look on their site
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12:47.34Maceri guess most sites say my car use obd 1.5.. whatever the hell that means
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12:47.50Maceri guess when they were doing the transition. .but the only port i see on my car is teh older 12pin port
12:48.17VDVsxStskeeps, It's a good deal for sure ;)
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12:49.16StskeepsVDVsx: just as good deal as free waterboarding
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12:49.30VDVsxStskeeps, lol
12:49.42VDVsxStskeeps, but you need that one, to complete the collection :P, since you already have an 770,n800, n810 :P
12:49.50Stskeepshehe
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12:54.52X-Fadejeremiah_afk: ping?
12:56.15wazdhttp://code.google.com/opensource/images/GSOC09_198x128.jpg <- one of the most tasteless logos I've ever seen :)
12:56.19Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: how'd you personally go about libconic hardcoding if you were to?
12:56.26Stskeepsas in, insisting you're online
12:56.48Stskeepswazd: it makes gsoc students horny! with memories of 60s!
12:56.50Stskeepsor something
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12:57.30Macerdamnit
12:57.34wazdStskeeps: draw snowflakes to describe summer - fail :D
12:57.38Maceryeah it just doesn't support it
12:57.41Macerman that sucks
12:57.50RST38hwazd: it is a spoof of some hippie era movie title
12:57.54Maceri didn't even notice it didn't until i started to read teh repair manual
12:57.58Macer1996 had it
12:58.05Macerso no maemo carman for me :(
12:58.16Macernot in my caprice at least which is where i wanted it
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12:58.42RST38hMacer: But you can put a machine gun in your caprice and still have place for the ammo
12:59.05MacerRST38h: i have an 09 tahoe too
12:59.16Macerbut i don't want the n810 and  scantool in that
12:59.26Maceri want it in the caprice
12:59.37RST38hoh
12:59.44Macerit's the only reason i bought it :( i guess i can try to find a 96 impala or caprice
12:59.47qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: Don't get the Q. Check where libconic gets the state and make it report back the same as it would if it found the connection to be active?
12:59.47Macerand try to trade mine
12:59.51Macerbut mine is in such good running conditino
13:00.06Macerwhich is why i wanted to trick it out with the n810 ;)
13:00.09Macerand the scan tool heh
13:00.26Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: yeah i guess
13:01.14RST38hMacer: Make sure you get a really big whip antenna on that Caprice
13:01.22RST38hMacer: Or better four little antennas =)
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13:02.35Macerthat's so redneck
13:02.40Maceri live in chicago man. we don't do that here :)
13:03.04Macera caprice can have a lot of class if you do it right
13:03.25Macerdamn i don't want to give it up but that is going to erk me until i die haha
13:04.34side-toi
13:04.58side-whoops
13:05.29VDVsxwazd, lol
13:05.50VDVsxwazd, for your consideration: http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/downloads/list?can=2&q=logo+2008&colspec=Filename+Summary+Uploaded+Size+DownloadCount
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13:39.00lamojolaI have a N800 that gets stuck in a boot loop if I boot to its SD card.  Can anybody help me troubleshoot this?
13:40.15lamojolaI can boot into the internal flash just fine from the boot menu.
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13:42.55VDVsxlamojola, internal SD card ? do you have some free space on the card ?
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13:46.57lamojolaVDVsx, yes thanks.  It's an internal SD card, not SDHC.  It's only 2GB, and I do have plenty of space on it, but I must check this first, but I'm not so sure yet.  It was working perfectly fine until one day it started doing this.  I think it was working for like a week or maybe three weeks.
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13:49.22VDVsxlamojola, maemo need some free space to boot, just a few megas
13:51.21lamojolaVDVsx, I feel like you maybe onto something, so thank you.  I'm going to book Kubuntu now and look at the partition on the SD card.  I feel silly :)  Pity I couldn't dig this up on Maemo.  I could only find stuff about MMC boot looping problems, but I didn't dig up anything about space. Yep, feeling silly.  I'll report back my findings.
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13:52.19cpm_Hi, where can I find hciconfig the Nokia N810 with Maemo4? I have bluez-utils installed, but still don't find hciconfig ...
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13:53.45VDVsxlamojola, np, it happens all the time :), and also happens to the OS on the internal flash, but can be other issue also
13:56.47lamojolaVDVsx, I wish I was out of the woods already.  The ext2 partition has plenty on it, 456MB, and the FAT32 has 748MB.  Anything else I should try?
13:57.05lamojolaThat's free space, BTW.
14:00.05VDVsxlamojola, humm, dunno, can be a card problem, a missing file, I don't remember how to enable the boot messages
14:00.08VDVsxqwerty12_N810, ping
14:00.16qwerty12_N810VDVsx: pong
14:01.00VDVsxqwerty12_N810, do you know/remember how to enable the boot log ? ^^
14:02.37qwerty12_N810Installing sysklogd and klogd should do it. But if you need messages on the screen: http://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting
14:04.47VDVsxlamojola, ^^
14:06.08lamojolaYes, thanks again both of you.  I'm reading it now.  I'm a little lost, but if I can't find my way, I'll post back how to get there.  I'll also post back my finding with my error, what went wrong etc.  Maybe it is a damaged SD, but I'm not sure why.  More conclusive results to follow.  Thanks again!
14:06.41qwerty12_N810Oh, BTW, does anyone know how to set the window icon? I want to override the one set by hildon-desktop (which is using the icon specified in the desktop file) gtk_window_set_icon*() doesn't do shit (it's Maemo, go figure) but the browser manages to do it.
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14:24.41javispedroqwerty12_N810, did you look at how gtk adi does it?
14:26.02javispedroeither way it does not seem to link to hildonwm either
14:26.28qwerty12_N810javispedro: just appears to be gtk_window_set_icon() which doesn't do anything when I give it an icon
14:26.36qwerty12_N810(under Maemo)
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14:27.16javispedroand that does not surprise me since hildonwm seems to ignore the X icon
14:27.36javispedrowhat surprises me is that it does not seem that any browser component at all links with hildonwm...
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14:29.16qwerty12_N810I noticed that _NET_WM_ICON_NAME property was set after icon was changed but when I set (and it got set, I checked) it, icon remained the same
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14:30.01javispedrogreps ICON_NAME -r hildon-desktop
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14:30.29javispedro0 refs to _NET_WM_ICON_NAME
14:30.40mgedminassumes people know about the app <-> desktop file <-> icon relationship in maemo
14:31.01qwerty12_N810mgedmin: yep, but I wish to change it after it has been set
14:31.07javispedroyep mgedmin, afaik they're trying to emulate the browser behaviour
14:31.19javispedro(displaying the favicon overlayed)
14:31.33mgedminhmm
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14:32.18mgedminshouldn't you be looking at _NET_WM_ICON?
14:32.33javispedrohmm
14:32.40mgedmin_NET_WM_ICON_NAME is the unicode title of the minimized window
14:32.49qwerty12_N810_NET_WM_ICON gets set but hildon-desktop ignores it
14:32.52qwerty12_N810Ah, thanks
14:33.52javispedro<PROTECTED>
14:33.53dnearyHi
14:33.57javispedroit searches for an icon of this size
14:34.05javispedroin the _NET_WM_ICON atom
14:34.36javispedrohi
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14:35.27xnt14~seen b-man16
14:35.30infobotb-man16 <n=b-man16@cpe-98-30-195-117.woh.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 11d 11h 27m 16s ago, saying: '  '.
14:35.36xnt14hmm :P
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14:35.51qwerty12_N810I've been feeding it an 64x64 icon to set, let me try a 64x54 one, thanks
14:36.22JamieBennettping dneary :)
14:36.32dnearyJamieBennett: Hello?
14:36.36dnearyWhat can I do you for?
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14:37.05JamieBennettmeeting about the presentations?
14:37.25JamieBennettdneary: I was hoping you'd just go on IRC & ping me ;)
14:37.38VDVsxlol
14:37.58dnearyJamieBennett: Oh - you're *that* Jamie Bennett
14:38.06JamieBennett:D
14:38.07dneary(/me is just yanking your chain)
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14:39.14dnearyOK - I'll be in the toilet for a sec, but could one of ye start going through the presentations that still need a review (there are 3 you can talk about while I'm away at least)
14:39.36JamieBennettOK
14:39.53JamieBennettLets start with Dave's then VDVsx
14:40.00VDVsxJamieBennett, ok
14:40.13JamieBennett<PROTECTED>
14:40.22JamieBennettI like, yes from me
14:40.48JamieBennettand a yes from you so this can be moved to accepted?
14:41.03VDVsxyup, put the bold text there, please
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14:41.49JamieBennettmmm, nothing in the accepted bit yet?
14:42.34VDVsxJamieBennett, yup, can be moved down also
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14:42.48GAN800Anybody got any Linux/receipt printer experience?
14:44.01JamieBennettMoney for nothing: Making money off free software
14:44.10JamieBennettYes from me, you?
14:44.52qwerty12_N810wishes to write an open-source program that aids him in counterfeiting money
14:44.56mgedminGAN800: I've got some DOS/receipt printer experience
14:45.07mgedminand some Windows/receipt printer experience I'm very happy to put behind be
14:45.10mgedmins/be/me/
14:45.31mgedminthat's not precisely the correction I had in mind...
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14:46.05VDVsxJamieBennett, depends on the keynote session, we have a lot of presentations already in the dev's track, wait and see for me, but I like the theme
14:46.07GAN800Ha
14:46.13javispedromgedmin, lol :)
14:46.43JamieBennettOK, wait and see on this one but I would like to see it if we have space.
14:46.46GAN800mgedmin, migrating from a DOS PoS arrangement to Ubuntu as we speak.
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14:47.14VDVsxJamieBennett, me too :)
14:47.21VDVsxJamieBennett, gonna update, next one we need dneary help
14:47.36JamieBennettI've updated and we have one more. - Maemo documentation co-creation
14:47.47RST38hGAN: No OS/2? :)
14:48.05JamieBennettYes from me in some format but I'm wondering if a lightning talk would be better?
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14:48.10JamieBennettthoughts VDVsx
14:49.07VDVsxJamieBennett, let's ask dneary , some clarifications
14:49.14VDVsxdneary, already here ?
14:50.32JamieBennettI can see the subject as either. A talk in the user track (which we need) or a short to-the-point lightning session, more of an overview, update and call for help.
14:51.52VDVsxJamieBennett, seems good, but I'm not sure about dave's planes for the session
14:52.46JamieBennettOK, back in a minute then, waiting for dneary
14:53.11GAN800RST38h, 98SE
14:53.16RST38hUmgh!
14:53.29RST38hIt's somewhat of a progress from OS/2 though
14:53.32qwerty12_N810It could've been ME...
14:54.19slonopotamusanyone knows the proper way to determine mtd OTP area size?
14:55.28dnearyJamieBennett, VDVsx: Backtracking
14:55.43RST38hqwerty: It could not. ME does not live longer than 6 months or so
14:56.03RST38hThen it usually eats itself from inside out and dies
14:56.10Jaffaneeds to ensure that the "content committee" fall under the proposals for sponsorship at tier #1 :)
14:56.24GAN800If I can get the inventory control/PoS software to play nice in Wine I'll be there.
14:56.29dnearyVDVsx: I didn't think of the "Money for nothing" presentation as being for devs necessarily
14:56.35JaffaBut I suspect VDVsx and JamieBennett already do; and dneary's catered for by Nokia
14:56.42dnearyIn fact, most of the people who make money off free software aren't devs at all :)
14:57.25VDVsxdneary, you put dev's there :P sort of
14:57.44dnearyIf you really want a keynote, there's another topic I think might be appropriate. The title could be something like "Jeez, how hard can it be to get this stuff right?"
14:57.58JamieBennett:)
14:58.18JamieBennettdneary: I see the money for nothing as more of a user track, no?
14:58.34JamieBennetti.e. using free software to make money not creating it?
14:58.42dnearyJamieBennett: I can certainly do the docs update as a lightning talk, but it'll be fast & furious and intense. I have some nice ideas for making it a fast & furious 20 min presentation too though
14:59.14JamieBennettdneary: For me either is fine (and we have space in the user track).
14:59.55dnearyJamieBennett: I was definitely going to talk about the Dutch coins in my "making money from free software" presentation
14:59.59xnt14qwerty12_N810, ;P
15:00.38dnearyI was also going to talk about a guy who paints custom twenty dollar bills with his face instead of the president, and offers them in bars & restaurants as payment
15:00.46dnearyMost places accept it, and frame the notes
15:00.53dnearyGreat story
15:01.08JamieBennettdneary: :) Sounds good to me. VDVsx has some doubts
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15:01.32dnearyAnd it's not counterfeit, because to make counterfeit money, a reasonable person has to think that it might be real money
15:01.47VDVsxabout the doc's presentation -> if you planes pass for convince more people from the community to help the maemo docs team, i definitely vote yes for a full session
15:01.50dnearyAnd then that leads into the story of how you might do that with xsane and the GIMP
15:02.07VDVsxdneary, if users: yes else wait and see :)
15:02.23dnearyBut of course you can't do it with Photoshop, because PS detects that you're trying to open a scanned bank-note, and disabled the program on you
15:02.36dnearyVDVsx: I'll keep it high level
15:02.39VDVsxdneary, seems a very intresting presentation for the users track
15:02.49dnearyThat'll only be the into
15:02.51dnearyintro
15:02.59JamieBennettOK, to summarize, docs talk in user track as a full session and making money also in user track. Yes?
15:03.17dneary(of course, now we're in a situation I had hoped to avoid, where I have privileged access to the guys choosing & I'm convincing you :)
15:03.19VDVsxJamieBennett, yes here :)
15:03.34dnearyAnd the presentations lightning talk?
15:04.18VDVsxdneary, lol
15:04.32Jaffadneary: the old adage of "it's not what you know, but who you know" isn't always a negative ;-)
15:04.35VDVsxJaffa, what do you offer to us, to we accept your presentation ? :P
15:04.50Jaffa's noticed there are a few things which are similar
15:04.59JamieBennettdneary: If we have room you could do an intro to the docs and tell them to go the full session but keep it as a full session for now.
15:05.16JamieBennettnot lightning
15:05.19JaffaSo won't be too upset if you decline it (in particular, I have hopes that PyQt will be fantastic; and a demo of how good Maemo dev _could_ be would be superfluous; as we'd have it)
15:05.25JaffaWorse case; mine can be lightning
15:05.28dnearyJamieBennett: Honestly, the docs will be a summary of where we are, and where we want to go
15:05.38JamieBennettOther session, presentation talk, yes from both of us
15:05.38dnearySo it could potentially be pessimistic
15:05.42Jaffajust wanted some sponsorship as he's broke ;-)
15:06.17dnearyBut I like to think of the success of, say the proof-reading of the HIG, the moves towards early publishing of docs and the success of the new wiki being very positive break-throughs
15:06.17JamieBennettmoving dneary's talks to accepted.
15:06.33dnearyJamieBennett: Will you be sending the acceptance email, or should I?
15:06.42JamieBennettlol
15:06.49VDVsxlol
15:07.00dnearyJaffa: In fact, I was voting not to accept yours
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15:08.20dnearyJaffa: I'm sure you'll get there, though :)
15:08.37VDVsxdneary, JamieBennett , can we start now in the 'wait and see' submissions again ? just to take another deeper look
15:08.56Jaffadneary: Here's hoping
15:09.05JamieBennettI think we have enough stars for the liqbase-playground to be accepted
15:09.06JamieBennettyes?
15:09.22dnearyJaffa: You could give a presentation on something tmo relared?
15:09.37VDVsxJamieBennett, sure
15:09.46JamieBennettOK moving
15:09.47Jaffadneary: "tmo: how to waste time and rot your brain?"
15:09.53Jaffadneary: May not be positive enough
15:09.55dnearyJamieBennett: As I noted, there are enough stars presenting to make a Fremantle Stars keynote, yes
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15:10.07dnearyJaffa: That would be a talk I'd go to see :)
15:10.28VDVsxwe can ask for a cool presentation around tmo : "How to rant about maemo/nokia" :P
15:10.56VDVsxhand on session, of course :)
15:11.01JaffaVDVsx: heh
15:11.04JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx, Evangelizing Mer, and Tips on Promoting Your Own Project
15:11.16JamieBennettMoving to no?
15:11.25VDVsxI think dneary add something new, let me check
15:11.39JamieBennettOn reflection, I think that this is not a great and potentially interesting session to a large number of people. Voting no. --Dave Neary 13:48, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
15:11.46dnearyVDVsx: Yeah, I added a "no"
15:12.37lcuk5JamieBennett, liqbase-playground as an hour on my own?
15:12.40VDVsxdneary, fine for me, I agree partly with your last thoughts
15:12.40Jaffaweighs in - since you're having the meeting here - that it *is* interesting why some projects succeed in gathering a community; and others don't.
15:12.46lcuk5apologises for late return
15:13.01JaffaBut I dunno if that's what the topic would address.
15:13.22JamieBennettlcuk5 Have you resubmitted with the proposal of what you are to talk about for an hour?
15:13.47JamieBennettJaffa, that would be a community talk rather than a Mer one though
15:14.05JaffaJamieBennett: Fair enough.
15:14.06Stskeepsthis talk wouldn't be mer-specific, but serve as inspiration for other projects too really
15:14.09Stskeeps(imho)
15:14.10Jaffashuts up now.
15:14.18lcuk5no but your comment is ambiguous, i cannot tell whether i am talking alone or if you have done anything else with the time
15:14.19qwerty12_N810javispedro: you, sir, are the shit
15:14.40javispedrohah
15:14.55Stskeepsponders idly where to upload a mugshot to maemo.org
15:14.57Jaffaqwerty12_N810: ...and he's the dogs' bollocks. But it's probably worth emphasising that (in UK English at least) these are *good* things
15:15.01qwerty12_N810(it's a compliment :P)
15:15.22JamieBennettlcuk5 From the wiki page - Fremantle Stars Presentation including liqbase-playground
15:15.31GAN800Stskeeps, user settings.
15:15.49qwerty12_N810Jaffa: :)
15:15.50VDVsxlcuk5, Fremantle Stars plenary session, 10 to 15 mins each Session confirmed, at least OMWeather, OSM2Go, liqbase and Mauku will present
15:15.50GAN800Stskeeps, from the Midgard toolbar.
15:15.59JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx - How to speed up your Maemo application development
15:16.02GAN800Stskeeps, click save then it'll give you more options.
15:16.06StskeepsGAN800: page->edit account doesn't let me upload or anything
15:16.06Stskeepsah
15:16.16GAN800Super intuitive
15:16.20lcuk5VDVsx, JamieBennett ok sounds ideal :)
15:16.33dnearyJamieBennett: Not sure what that last comment to lcuk5 was about
15:16.44X-FadeStskeeps: http://maemo.org/profile/publish/
15:16.44dnearyJamieBennett: Still wait & see for me
15:17.05StskeepsX-Fade: ta, aiming up for putting a blog on planet for once :P
15:17.07JamieBennettdneary: lcuk5 asked if he had to talk for an hour, I gave him the talk title from the wiki
15:17.15dnearyAh
15:17.23VDVsxJamieBennett, dneary , same here, but I like the topic, and might have some potential
15:17.32dnearylcuk5: No, you're not talking for an hour, a one hour slot will be shared by all the Fremantle stars
15:17.46JamieBennettOK, so a wait and see for that one then
15:17.49JamieBennettstill
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15:17.58JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx, Creating Python bindings for C libraries in Maemo
15:18.01dnearyJamieBennett: You saw the other Stars that had replied already?
15:18.03lcuk5yes dneary i gathered that now - i didnt at first since i put myself down alone :)
15:18.08dnearyOSM2Go, OMWeather, Mauku
15:18.18dnearyAnd one definite no, Vagalume
15:18.19*** join/#maemo ab (n=ab@esprx02x.nokia.com)
15:18.31JamieBennettdneary: yes, just confirming that this was critical mass for the presentation
15:18.33dnearylcuk5: We could get you to talk all day, if you want ;)
15:18.40javispedroqwerty12_N810, :) . Thank mgadmin too, he told us about the X atoms :)
15:18.56VDVsxdneary, lol
15:18.56dnearyJamieBennett: Yes, that works out at 15 mins each. 5 or 6 would be even better
15:19.07lcuk5heh dave - in amsterdam anything is possible
15:19.12lcuk5we havin the summit in a coffee shop?
15:19.13qwerty12_N810Thanks mgedmin :)
15:19.29mgedminfor what?
15:19.43qwerty12_N810The X atom stuff
15:19.45mgedminoh, the atoms
15:20.04lcuk5works again thanks for clarifications will read scrollback later
15:20.18aquatixlcuk5: *sigh*
15:20.28JamieBennett^ thoughts on that presentation?
15:20.29aquatixlcuk5: like all amsterdam consists of coffee shops ;)
15:20.35mgedminwas once very interested in X11 and read the ICCCM and the EWH spec
15:21.18aquatixmgedmin: it only went downhill from there?
15:21.48javispedroone can lose interest in X11quicly, it  appears to me like a gigabyte mess
15:21.51VDVsxJamieBennett, dneary my thoughts are there, again not trying to be harsh, by the flow in -devel ML, the proponent don't seems to me a expert in the proposed topic, at least atm
15:21.54lcuk5aquatix, if i'm made to stand up and talk all day, perhaps thats the only sustainable method lol
15:22.19aquatix:)
15:22.50dnearySorry ye've lost me
15:22.54dnearyWhat presentation now?
15:23.00VDVsx<PROTECTED>
15:24.30dnearyAh
15:24.36dnearyYeah, no from me
15:24.49JamieBennettOK, moving to no.
15:24.56dnearyBetter to push Andy80 to give a RAD with Python on Maemo presentation
15:25.13JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx - Developments in The Qt WebKit Integration
15:25.15dnearyBut then the PyQt guy will feel jealous :)
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15:25.29dnearyJamieBennett: I really have no opinion, leaving the choice up to you guys
15:25.43dnearyVDVsx: What do you think of QtWebkit?
15:26.32VDVsxseems better now, with the explanation of the proponent
15:27.10VDVsxonly reading the description i would say no, because I had the same doubts that dneary
15:27.24VDVsxhad
15:27.28JamieBennettNot sure if it would be compelling as a presentation
15:27.34dnearyVDVsx: Original author added a comment
15:27.51JamieBennettThis would be platform, yes?
15:28.08VDVsxcan be
15:28.37JamieBennettI'm really on the fence, not feeling it either way
15:29.21JamieBennettIs it considered such a big part of the framework to warrent a presentation?
15:29.23VDVsxbut, Qt webkit is very powerful and you can use it as a regular widget inside a app, so will be also good for dev's track
15:29.40dnearyKnow who I want to come give a presentation for system developers? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30607
15:30.11VDVsxslonopotamus, ^^^:P
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15:30.23JamieBennettdneary: Yes
15:30.38slonopotamusVDVsx, uh?
15:30.55VDVsxslonopotamus, line above mine
15:31.02JamieBennettslonopotamus: Submit a proposal to come talk at the Maemo Summit!
15:31.14JamieBennettabout what you are doing
15:31.42VDVsxJamieBennett, so wait and see also ?, I tempted to accept grrrr
15:32.11JamieBennettI'll abstain (I'm easy either way). If you vote yes it will be accepted
15:32.19slonopotamusnah, no time to talk, only time to code :)
15:32.25VDVsxslonopotamus, lol
15:33.45VDVsxJamieBennett, I'm just afraid that we fill all the dev's slots now :(
15:33.51dnearyslonopotamus: You're here?
15:33.52dnearyCool
15:33.58*** join/#maemo mend0za (n=nobody@195.222.85.229)
15:34.00dnearyslonopotamus: You should do it, for sure
15:34.05dnearyI just emailed you
15:34.47mend0zacan anyone told, what kind of WiMAX chip used in WiMAX Edition
15:34.57slonopotamusdneary, no way. my daughter has been born 2 weeks ago, wife won't be happy if i go somewhere :)
15:35.12mend0zaand driver name for it
15:35.14dnearyslonopotamus: I will ensure that your travel expenses are paid...
15:35.25qwerty12_N810mend0za: driver name is pc2400m
15:35.26mend0zadmesg also will be good
15:35.35dnearyslonopotamus: At least, I'll do my best
15:35.36mend0zaqwerty12_N810: Intel one ?
15:35.38Jaffaslonopotamus: It's only for a few days in October. While off yet.
15:36.00dnearyThe kid'll be 3 months old - almost old enoughh to start working
15:36.04qwerty12_N810mend0za: appears it
15:36.18Jaffa's missus is talking about bringing herself and the kids
15:36.36JaffaI can't think *why* she wouldn't trust me in Amsterdam ;-)
15:36.39qwerty12_N810Getting high can be a family activity! ;P
15:36.51mend0zaqwerty12_N810: ok, got it, thanks a lot!
15:37.13VDVsxJamieBennett, so wait and see, or plataform track ?
15:37.15StskeepsX-Fade: sent planets request :)
15:37.26JamieBennettIf you want it there, platform track
15:37.27JaffaStskeeps: What's the URL so we can have a sneak peak?
15:37.47StskeepsJaffa: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/
15:37.58VDVsxJamieBennett, fine for me, plataform is empty now :)
15:38.08JamieBennettOK, moving to accepted
15:38.17JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx, Development Nirvana: How Maemo Application Development Should Be
15:38.28VDVsxJamieBennett, put a note about the track,please
15:38.33JamieBennettok
15:38.43dnearyJamieBennett, VDVsx: Sorry Jaffa, but I vote no on this one
15:39.05VDVsxit's a very important topic, IMO, but don't know if this will fill a full session, depens on Jaffa's planes
15:39.11dnearyIt's all too easy to present an idealised environment
15:39.36dnearyMuch prefer realpolitik approaches to improving the way things are, rather than presenting Nirvanae
15:39.43lamojolaI can't export OSSO_VERSION=$(cat /etc/osso_software_version)  per http://wiki.maemo.org/Troubleshooting_boot_issues
15:39.59VDVsxdneary, hard to maemo implement one :P
15:40.06dnearyJaffa: Would you be interested in condensing your thoughts on this to 5 mins for a lightning talk?
15:40.07Stskeepsmeh, wasn't that bad, taken a year so far :P
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15:40.26dnearyVDVsx: See slonopotamus for proof to the contrary :)
15:41.39JamieBennettdneary has a point. I like the subject but mayby not a presentation.
15:41.46VDVsxdneary, I'm talking about dev tools, an integrated and easy sdk , see androind and palm sdk, diff approach
15:41.50JamieBennett*maybe*
15:42.13VDVsxalso my concerns
15:42.19dnearyJaffa: Still here?
15:44.03dnearyOK - moving on for the moment
15:44.05Jaffadneary: Soryry - talking to colleague
15:44.09JaffaLightning talk doable.
15:44.18dnearyJaffa: How dare you talk to a colleague during work hours
15:44.21Jaffahappy with that.
15:44.24JamieBennett:)
15:44.28dnearyYou should be fully concentrated on IRC
15:44.35Jaffadneary: I try to minimise it. We usually either agree or argue ;-)
15:45.06JamieBennetttaking a break from iPhone *and* android programming at the same time :)
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15:45.21JaffaJamieBennett: :)
15:45.38VDVsxok, LT then ?
15:45.44JamieBennettOK for me
15:46.01lcuk5JamieBennett, simultaneously?
15:46.11lcuk5one in each hand? :D
15:46.14JamieBennettlcuk5 of course ;)
15:46.27lcuk5you da man!
15:46.44javispedroyou're lying, the iphone can't be done with one hand ;)
15:46.51JamieBennettlcuk5 moving an app from iPhone to android :(
15:47.32JamieBennettlcuk5 big different (Obj-C -> Java) two different code editors, two different styles ..., the list goes on !
15:47.38dnearyOK - Live Outdoor Event
15:48.13JamieBennettstop, dneary your fine with jaffa's lightning talk yes, if so moving to accepted
15:48.15dnearyOSM2Go + GPXView
15:48.23dnearyJamieBennett: Yup
15:48.37dnearyJamieBennett: Given that I suggested it :°)
15:48.47JamieBennettdneary, just checking ;P
15:49.23VDVsxJamieBennett, move also the Qt webkit and pymaemo bindings to rejected
15:49.47VDVsxJamieBennett, Qt webkit to accepted
15:49.48JamieBennettVDVsx: Done, just keeping the window open whilst I edit, not saved yet
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15:49.57dnearyVDVsx: I'll take care of the proposals page
15:50.09dnearyFor the moment, I think the right thing to do is just note the decision
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15:50.17dnearyI'll move the abstracts & clean up afterwards
15:50.22lopzhola
15:50.24VDVsxdneary, ok
15:50.31JamieBennettdneary: wiki page has been edited already
15:50.32dneary(if no-one minds, I'll schedule my presentations on different days
15:50.46VDVsxJamie is only editing the talk page
15:50.53JamieBennettsorry, yes
15:50.59dnearyJamieBennett: No problem. I'll try to figure it out
15:51.25JamieBennett^ I like the Life outdoor talk proposal
15:51.30dnearySo - the geoclue talk (OSM2Go & GPXView)
15:51.36JamieBennettI vote yes as lightning talk
15:51.40dnearyMoved to Fremantle Stars
15:52.00dnearyOSM2Go is a Fremantle Star
15:52.01dnearyNo?
15:52.40VDVsxdneary, yes
15:52.55VDVsxbut, I also agree with Jamie's points, I think we have room for another LT around geocaching in that stuff
15:53.17VDVsxwith maemo devices of course :)
15:53.31JamieBennettDepends on if there is overlap with the two talks. If they are different I vote yes
15:53.55VDVsxwe can ask Till, about that
15:54.08JamieBennettOK, so wait and see pending response from Till
15:55.07JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx, Writing plugins for MAFW
15:55.09VDVsxhumm, accepted that one for the keynote session, and ask for a more geocaching oriented LT ?
15:55.59JamieBennettVDVsx, yes
15:56.21VDVsxMAFW : "Presentation (Tutorial)" -> maybe a BoF ?, we have a available room
15:56.50VDVsxS/BoF/hands on session/
15:57.24JamieBennettdneary:?
15:57.41dnearyJamieBennett, VDVsx: I'm willing to bow to your better judgement on this one too
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15:58.09dnearyVDVsx: Agreed on asking for a geocaching LT too
15:58.21dnearyPerhaps a more general "location in Maemo" LT
15:58.31JamieBennettVDVsx: Just worried that if it is a BOF it may attract less audience
15:58.36JamieBennettdneary: agreed
15:58.44VDVsxdneary, yup
15:58.55VDVsxMAFW : IMO, it's very interesting for a hands on session, but not so much for a session
15:59.13dnearyVDVsx: I can see how it might be a great session for the right audience
15:59.21VDVsxaccording to the description provided, of course
15:59.33dnearyVDVsx: I'm just not sure how big the audience is, thus my deference to you two :)
15:59.47JamieBennettdneary, that is my worry
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16:01.01JamieBennettVDVsx: BOF sounds better after re-reading the abstract but I have my concerns at the potential audience size
16:01.38VDVsxthe room seems small :P
16:02.24JamieBennettOK, I'm going to say wait and see what else comes in
16:02.36VDVsxcan also be added to plataform
16:02.41VDVsxJamieBennett, fine for me
16:02.49JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx, Creating packages for the Maemo platform
16:02.59VDVsxyes
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16:03.03JamieBennettyes
16:03.55dnearyJamieBennett: Yes
16:04.03JamieBennettmoving
16:04.06dnearyBut I've asked Jeremiah to give a more complete summary
16:04.12JamieBennettOK
16:04.19dnearyI want to make sure that he & Andre have thought through what they're presenting
16:04.48*** join/#maemo lardman (n=vircuser@78.150.0.243)
16:04.53lardmanafternoon all
16:05.10VDVsxhello lardman :)
16:05.21JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx, GUPnP and Rygel: The UPnP/DLNA solution for Maemo
16:05.39dnearyI say a big maybe!
16:05.49JamieBennettConfirm that it is as we hope?
16:05.56dnearyJamieBennett: As I commented, I think this'd make a great user presentation
16:05.59VDVsxusers oriented yes, I think we have to wait for zeenix reply
16:06.04JamieBennettOK
16:06.16JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx,  Handheld Glom: Easy database applications.
16:06.22dnearySomething like "Set up your N810 as a home entertainment system using Rygel and GUPnP" or something like that
16:06.51dnearyJamieBennett: Yes from me
16:07.07dnearyNice app, problem domain that is somewhat interesting
16:07.19wirelessdreamerwtb n900 rumors so I can get a device and start dev work
16:07.26dnearyAnd quick DB backed applications represent about 80% of all applications out there :)
16:07.37JamieBennettdneary: Is that a yes as a user or dev talk as the author says its definitely a dev talk?
16:07.58JamieBennett(yes for me for a dev talk BTW)
16:08.16dnearyglom is a developer application - it's like a form creator
16:08.26dnearyso yes as app dev talk
16:08.46JamieBennettdneary: I know, just going by your comment on the wiki.
16:08.46JamieBennettVDVsx:?
16:08.46VDVsxI don't know glom, don't know the relevance that it has inside maemo :(
16:08.55VDVsxbut I trust you guys :)
16:08.55dnearyright
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16:09.24dnearyVDVsx: the thing that attracts me is that it is not meta
16:09.31JamieBennettVDVsx: many many handheld apps need some kind of DB for storage
16:09.35*** join/#maemo SjB (n=steve@CPE000f6694c28f-CM00194757c0b2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
16:09.37dnearyit's showing off a useful application
16:09.44JamieBennettOK, moving to accepted
16:10.02*** join/#maemo setanta (n=setanta@200.184.118.130)
16:10.23JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx, that leaves maemo.org Bug Management
16:10.49VDVsxJamieBennett, nah nah, another Qt one there :P
16:11.10VDVsxbut yes for Andre's proposal
16:11.18JamieBennettVDVsx: Ah hiding underneath :)
16:11.37dnearyYes, but want a bigger summary :)
16:11.53VDVsxJamieBennett, I put it there, a couple of hours ago :)
16:12.04JamieBennettdneary: :) Moving to accepted but we still want to see more summary
16:12.20JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx, Automatic binding generation for Qt based libraries
16:12.37VDVsxseems python bindings again
16:12.39dnearyTempted to say yes because it's Marcelo
16:13.11dnearybut I think it's not the Marcelo I think it is
16:13.19VDVsxnop
16:13.19JamieBennettNo
16:13.25VDVsxnot marcelo eduardo
16:13.32VDVsxanother one
16:13.46JamieBennettI have an issue with the potential audience size again
16:14.08dnearyand overlap wit the pyqt presentation
16:14.19JamieBennettdneary, indeed
16:14.29dnearylet's say wait & see
16:14.37JamieBennettOK
16:14.53dnearyI'd like to see where we stand with spots filled, spots available (per track) and stuff we want to have and don't yet
16:15.08JamieBennettdneary: we discussed yours as you probably read in the backchat with just one being a wait and see.
16:15.18JamieBennett^ yes, I'll like to see the timetable filled in
16:15.22dnearySo that we start pro-actively hassling people like slonopotamus to present their stuff who haven't signed up yet
16:15.31VDVsxbasically it's the same topics as the python- c bindings proposal, but this time is c++ - python bindings
16:15.46dnearyWhat ever happened to that other Maemo-based distribution from OpenBossa that was getting worked on last yearN
16:15.50JamieBennettI'm ready to say no to it
16:15.52dnearyAbandoned in favour of Mer?
16:15.52Stskeepsmamona?
16:16.04JamieBennettmamona never really took off
16:16.10dnearyStskeeps: Yeah, Mamona
16:16.15Jaffadneary: It's been being worked on for years - but they did do a presentation on it last year
16:16.25Stskeepsdneary: seemingily it's still active
16:16.40VDVsxthey use it at least, afaik
16:16.41Stskeepsi wouldn't mind seeing a presentation of them about how their project has been going and lessons to be learned, actually
16:16.56rkirtihas never understood how Mamona functions..... :-( They use oe but have no buildable image
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16:17.24Stskeepsrkirti: i personally see mamona as yet another mobile distribution tangenting towards using enlightenment and slowly dying from touching it
16:17.27Stskeeps:P
16:17.36Stskeepsbut mer has a lot of their tricks and tips in it.
16:17.47javispedrolikes the name, is in fact some spanish female insult
16:17.52rkirtiStskeeps: for instance ?
16:17.56rkirtiouch.
16:18.13Stskeepsrkirti: like some of their cx3110x work and networkmanager things, etc
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16:18.29rkirtiI see
16:18.38VDVsxjavispedro, don't know the meaning :P
16:19.16javispedroVDVsx, http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mam%C3%B3n#Spanish
16:19.35rkirtiiirc,they claimed it was some plant name ..adding as a (lame) joke that it could also be  a play on the names maemo and canola
16:19.44dnearyI've heard of others considering Enlightenment recently
16:19.53dnearyWhat does E have going for it?
16:20.18VDVsxjavispedro, eheeh, work partially for Portuguese also :P
16:20.18Stskeepsdneary: it looks shiny but due to the constant development your application will suddenly have no toolkit updates for the thing it uses, etc..
16:20.38Stskeepsi admit it is cool, but every distribution that starts to use it slowly rots
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16:21.04dnearyVDVsx: JamieBennett: Can we agree on Wait & See until we see where we're at right now for that Qt bindings one?
16:21.14JamieBennettdneary: yes
16:21.14VDVsxdneary, yes
16:21.19javispedrohey
16:21.21JamieBennettI think that done isn't it?
16:21.28dnearyCool!
16:21.29JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx:?
16:21.30dnearyWe're done
16:21.33VDVsxJamieBennett, yes
16:21.35JamieBennett:)
16:21.37dnearyTook longer than I expected
16:21.37javispedrohave you seen all the Trac spam lately?
16:21.39dnearyThanks guys!
16:21.43dnearyAnd happy holidays!
16:21.47JamieBennettdneary: No problem.
16:21.49javispedroit does contain legible comments!
16:21.56VDVsxJamieBennett, dneary next round in Sep :)
16:22.01JamieBennett:)
16:22.01javispedroexample: http://dev.openbossa.org/trac/mamona/ticket/155#comment:2
16:22.16JamieBennettgoes back to iPhone/Android development
16:22.22dnearyStskeeps: Slowly rots?
16:22.42javispedrois impressed and will for sure check the interface to confirm if it works then buy some cheap nike shoes
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16:22.52dnearyStskeeps: In fact, the pattern I've seen is that slowly rotting distributions jump to E as if it will solve all their GTK+ problems
16:23.16dnearyStskeeps: Perhaps that's unfair but it seems that way. It looks to me like blaming the wrong cause for failure
16:24.16VDVsxE is some much fun and powerful compared to GTK+
16:24.19VDVsxhides
16:24.23dnearyAnyone with an evening to lose - endless source material for presentations here: http://www.publicdomaintorrents.com
16:25.16VDVsxgo play with accelerometers
16:25.17dnearyAnother evening to lose learning from the best:
16:25.19dnearyhttp://www.ted.com/
16:25.22Stskeepsdneary: interesting angle
16:25.45dnearyStskeeps: You know the Latin saying "Post hoc ergo propter hoc"?
16:26.02javispedroah, you're thinking putting that "Sorry, I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave" scene then slowly fading to bugs.maemo.org ? ;)
16:26.07Stskeepsdneary: yeah - gotta eat now :P
16:27.14dnearyjavispedro: No, I was thinking of clipping scenes from old Flash Gordon episodes & stringing them together in Pitivi with voice-overs of funny techie nature to make a lightning presentation
16:27.49javispedroheh :)
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16:53.07taligI need some pygtk help, any available?
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16:56.58lardmantalig: try me :)
16:57.19taliglardman: Thanks. I need to open a dialog with a textbox...
16:58.01lardmancreate the dialog, add a textbox object to it, display?
16:58.40lardmandialogs have a vbox in them by default
16:58.45taliglardman: gotcha
16:58.54lardmanhttp://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/sec-Dialogs.html
16:59.02lardmanadds a label, but same thing
16:59.04taliglardman: I somehow ended up with "InputDialog". Meh.
16:59.05lcuk5karate chops lardman
16:59.25lardmanyeah, I don't know if there;s a special shortcut function
16:59.33lardmanthanks lcuk5 :)
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17:01.38lcuk5:D
17:02.01lcuk5damn been called out, but i had a full weekend that started amazingly then went downhill with a thud
17:02.16*** join/#maemo ab (n=ab@pdpc/supporter/professional/ab)
17:03.02taliglardman: textbox == GtkText or something else?
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17:12.10GAN800I really need to find something that'll keep fingerprints (or faceprints) off glass. . . .
17:13.39VDVsxJamieBennett, dneary, still here?
17:13.48dnearyyup
17:13.55dnearyJamieBennett is gone, I think
17:15.07VDVsxdneary, forget to talk about "go-to market..." session, you added it to user track :)
17:18.57slonopotamus'Creating Python bindings for C libraries in Maemo' does it differ somehow from creating bindings in other distros?
17:19.26VDVsxnop
17:19.33qwerty12_N810Yes. You have scratchbox. ;P
17:20.08slonopotamusdoesn't
17:20.14lcuk5GAN800, buy an axe.  cant leave fingerprints if you have no fingers
17:20.41GAN800lcuk, does that include chopping little childrens' faces off?
17:20.49dnearyVDVsx: Ah
17:20.51dnearyYeah
17:20.52lcuk5whatever makes you happy
17:20.55dnearyWe can move it later
17:21.03dnearyWe're agreed that it's accepted
17:21.10VDVsxyes
17:21.19VDVsxin dev's track :)
17:21.32VDVsxslonopotamus, what do you use ? some custom toolchain ?
17:22.13lardmanon-device only iirc
17:23.20VDVsxthat means lcuk's toolchain :P
17:23.52qwerty12_N810hehe
17:24.35lardmanI wondered what LCC stood for ;)
17:24.48lcuk5o_O
17:25.12lcuk5my toolchain is very simple (apart from the fudging package bit..)
17:25.21lcuk5spits and curses at packaging
17:26.47lcuk5had to cope all the way till saturday night with no bacon
17:27.01lardmanorders an emergency airdrop
17:27.36lardmanyou probably need an epipen, to counteract the effects of no bacon, on these rare occasions
17:27.58lcuk5the only other thing missing from the weekend was an axe
17:28.13lardmanyou suffered from smudgy glass too?
17:28.23dnearyHrm
17:28.38RST38hmoo all
17:28.53qwerty12_N810hi RST38h
17:28.56lcuk5no, we were annoyed at the guy that bought all the food, packed all the food, drove over to camp, unpacked, put tents up started bbq's then realised he had left the bacon in his fridge
17:29.01lardmanhi RST38h
17:29.05dnearyVDVsx: I wish that JamieBennett had left the presentation abstracts where they were so that I could copy & paste them to the relevant schedule pages
17:29.13lcuk5we were going to coerce him into going back and geting it
17:29.19lcuk5and failing that, human bacon wouldv done
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17:29.30lcuk5hey RST38h \o
17:29.43RST38hheya lardman, lcuk, how are things? =)
17:30.00lcuk5im actually quite good
17:30.04RST38hlife is full of bacon? =)
17:30.09VDVsxdneary, he didn't removed the abstracts, did he ?
17:30.12dnearyNever mind
17:30.16dnearyYes, he didn't
17:30.30lcuk5its a wiki isnt it
17:30.33lcuk5it has history?
17:30.52lcuk5reads double unplus good speak
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17:33.45lcuk5lardman, hows the python goin
17:33.49lcuk5you relaxing with it now
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17:36.17xnt14hmm
17:36.20xnt14~seen b-man16
17:36.23infobotb-man16 <n=b-man16@cpe-98-30-195-117.woh.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 11d 14h 28m 9s ago, saying: '  '.
17:36.26xnt14lol
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17:52.02slonopotamusVDVsx, i use on-device gentoo :P
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17:53.12slonopotamuson-device maemo is usable too, if you build normal coreutils
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17:59.09k-sVDVsx: someone removed my presentation from summit?
17:59.46*** join/#maemo kenneth (n=kenneth@200.184.118.130)
18:02.04VDVsxk-s, nop
18:02.16VDVsxk-s, http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Schedule/Day_2#Canola_application_and_framework_for_rich_GUI
18:02.33k-sah, it was "parsed and categorized" already?
18:02.55VDVsxyes
18:03.11k-s:-)
18:03.18VDVsxk-s, day2 at 11.30
18:03.28k-sgood
18:03.42VDVsxyou can see it here : http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Schedule
18:03.48k-syep, thanks
18:04.10k-skenneth just asked me as he is subscribed and saw my talk was not there anymore, then I was scared :-D
18:04.46VDVsxk-s, also note that the presentation in the users track at the same time, will be moved, since it's a dev's presentation
18:05.38k-sok
18:05.55VDVsxk-s, we only removed it from the talk page, in order to clean up things :)
18:06.17k-ssure
18:06.19k-si understand
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18:08.28johnsqHi
18:20.03kennethVDVsx, if it is possible I would prefer my talk on one of the first days, as im going to the Qt Developer Days straight after the summit
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18:26.56eichihello
18:27.00eichisomeone uses navit?
18:27.26*** join/#maemo zimmerle (n=zimmerle@200.184.118.130)
18:27.31eichiyou can only use map file smaller then the memory of the device is, or?
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18:43.18VDVsxkenneth, so, has to be on day 2, because the first one, is nokia's day
18:44.01kennethfine with me :-)
18:47.41VDVsxkenneth, Qt dev days seems to be a very nice event, but it's too expensive for independent developers/students. IMO :(
18:48.23johnsqVDVsx: you can ask how to use qt with C
18:49.07kennethVDVsx, yes, it is a very nice event. If you were a nokian you could probably get in for free if you ask the organizers
18:49.10slonopotamusjohnsq, hi! how's your gentoo going? :)
18:49.30VDVsxkenneth, I'm not :P
18:49.46johnsqslonopotamus: it works, i need to find how i get sound working.
18:50.30slonopotamusjohnsq, mer guys set it up. there's a thread on talk with steps also
18:51.08slonopotamusjohnsq, full of blobs, though
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18:52.18johnsqslonopotamus: i'm very busy with my project, so i haven't played much.
18:53.51slonopotamusjohnsq, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Sound
18:54.34lardmanlcuk5: sorry for the slow reply, yeah not bad, have docs/tut open on one side and code on the other an was ploughing through (but been watching the test match highlights just now)
18:55.04slonopotamusjohnsq, + http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=22642
18:55.14lardmanRST38h: going reasonably well, not feeling too hot though, probably mild bird flu or the like ;)
18:55.32lardmanheads to watch the A-Team :)
18:55.45Stskeepspig flu is probably an advertisement campaign to warm up the world for the N900.
18:56.56lcuk5and the 6billion in profits from the banks are a down payment!
18:57.39slonopotamusletz try once again
18:57.41slonopotamusanyone knows the proper way to determine mtd OTP area size?
18:57.47johnsqslonopotamus: I thought something like this.
18:58.28slonopotamusjohnsq, sadly, that can't be automated because of proprietary blobs
18:58.33aquatixis there some key i can press in combination with a regular tap to simulate a rightclick?
18:59.24johnsqaquatix: tap long, should be right click
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18:59.39aquatixjohnsq: hm, that doesn't work so well on an attachment in claws-mail
18:59.45aquatixtried it already
19:00.05aquatixmeh
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19:07.47lcuk5twiddles thumbs
19:08.43aquatixoh well, scp is faster anyway
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19:25.25StskeepsJaffa: any way to add URL recognition to the pipes of garage.*
19:25.25Stskeeps?
19:26.48pupnik<PROTECTED>
19:26.56*** join/#maemo greentux_ (n=lemke@BAA2cae.baa.pppool.de)
19:27.18Stskeepserr .. i mean, for Mer rss feed
19:28.38Stskeepsi'm kinda saddened by the fact not many people noticed the talk post containing this url: http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/screenshots/skype/screenshot02.png :)
19:30.03slonopotamushehe :) cool
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20:09.30wazd_maan, I think I've killed my keyboard
20:09.57lcuk2yeah wazd_, cant see anything you type
20:10.02Stskeepstoo much booze?
20:10.20qwerty12_N810Can't have done - it's not all in caps :P
20:10.59wazd_I'm typing with onscreen now)
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20:11.58wazd_can anybody advise a good kb?)
20:12.13Stskeepsreally should get a desktop machine again
20:12.22johnsq<PROTECTED>
20:12.53wazd_johnsq: for the desktop)
20:13.00qwerty12_N810still uses the wired, PS/2 one that came with his computer
20:13.05johnsqwazd_: apple alu keyboard
20:13.55*** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (n=timeless@cs78159218.pp.htv.fi)
20:14.16wazd_johnsq: too expensive for my needs. And its for macs anyway
20:14.48lcuk2then get a mac
20:14.49johnsqwazd_: it works nice with linux. cherry stream line
20:15.04lcuk2you are 99% of the way there with the designer flair, you deserve to have the machine to match :)
20:15.32wazd_johnsq: it has mac layout on it I mean
20:16.16doc|homeI want a keyboard that's really super touch sensitve
20:16.16*** join/#maemo flavioribeiro (n=avaty@189.71.69.58)
20:16.16doc|homemy fingers are always sore :(
20:16.23johnsqdon't look at the keyboard while you type
20:16.36lcuk2apple kb have short travel
20:16.46wazd_lcuk2: it's a myth that designer should have a mac)
20:16.50doc|homeapple keyboards suck
20:17.01doc|homeI use one in work every day. doesn't register presses well
20:17.07doc|homeand I've tried more than one
20:19.15wazd_there're no other kbs?)
20:19.20lcuk2doc|home, maybe you could consider changing your typing style slightly
20:19.35lcuk2if you are bashing the keys hard enough to hurt, you are usually doing it wrong?
20:19.48doc|homelcuk2: if it registered keypresses correctly I wouldn't need to
20:19.58lcuk2hunt and peck should not result in explosive fracturing of the T key
20:20.07doc|homeI don't hunt and peck
20:20.21lcuk2#]get an ibm model m?
20:20.43doc|homeI had one of those, nice, but not ideal now. Now I want one that I just have to tap ever so slightly
20:20.46johnsqgood old ibm keyboard or old cherry
20:21.01wazd_if apple's product doesn't work well - it's you that does smth wrong xD
20:21.15doc|homewazd_: the apple way!
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20:21.44doc|homesadly, I think i've broken
20:21.51doc|homeI'm considering buying a macbook pro :(
20:21.56doc|homedell have driven me to this
20:22.06lcuk2it is, you can get surgical remodelling of your fingers to enhance your apple keyboard interfacing needs
20:22.42wazd_anyway, we have apples akb for 70 bucks - thats damn too much
20:22.47lcuk2macbook pro has same keyboard as the other apple ones doesnt it?
20:22.54doc|homeunless someone can suggest a nice, light 13.3" laptop without windows and with hdmi?
20:23.10lcuk2get a refund on the microsoft tax
20:23.16lcuk2never accept the eula
20:23.36doc|homelcuk2: has never worked here afaik, besides, too much trouble. I don't have that kind of time.
20:23.44wazd_will you buy macbook wihut osx?
20:23.45lcuk2where is here?
20:23.53doc|homecanada
20:24.18doc|homewazd_: nope, but I'm less opposed to using OS X over giving money to microsoft. At least OS X mostly works in a way that doesn't annoy the shit out of me.
20:24.51wazd_doc|home: same with vista for me)
20:24.56doc|homeblegh :)
20:25.31doc|homethe kicker for me is probably the battery life
20:25.41doc|home7 hours. mmmm
20:25.49wazd_lie :)
20:25.53doc|home?
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20:26.12wazd_5 if you'll pray constantly
20:26.18doc|homewazd_: not on the newer ones
20:26.31doc|homethe older unibodys, yes
20:26.34lcuk2part time praying?
20:27.22GAN800Stskeeps, I loaded this thing up, put it in my pocket and forgot to lock it. Then was wondering why the hell I had Skype opened when I took it out. ;)
20:28.24wazd_doc|home: like I said, don't beleive in whats ritten on the apples site)
20:28.59GAN800wazd_, my friends get that with their MBPs.
20:29.11doc|homewazd_: well, even at five hours, it's still far longer than anything on the pc side :/
20:29.27doc|homemy old, dead, xps used to get 2:45
20:30.01wazd_doc|home: even my 2133 with tiny battery and hungry C7 does 2 hours
20:30.22doc|homewazd_: apples and oranges
20:30.56wazd_doc|home: Sony and HP makes 7+ hours
20:31.32doc|homewazd_: sony are even more overpriced and can't be bought without windows. HP are as bad as dell.
20:31.49wazd_I mean real 7+,not with closed lid
20:32.09doc|homeout
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20:32.17wazd_doc|home: hp's pretty fine for me
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20:33.22wazd_anyway, mac is a considerable purchase for US only
20:33.27*** join/#maemo melmoth (n=pamadio@90.95.11.195)
20:34.13wazd_cause it has reasonable price there
20:36.52wazd_Here we have mbp 13 starting at only 1800 usd  :)
20:37.54wazd_oh, there's one for 1400 in some suspicios store
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20:47.00GAN800Sucks to be foreign. :P
20:48.15wazd_well, I think that unibody macs are boring anyway)
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20:57.08lardman|tvnight all
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21:09.53GAN800wazd_, ur boring. What now? :P
21:10.15qwerty12_N810Fight, of course
21:10.51wazd_GAN800: thanks, General Obvious :P
21:11.52wazd_qwerty12_N810: If I'll try - I can hit him thru the Earth :)
21:12.10qwerty12_N810hehe
21:13.19RST38hmooo all
21:13.34RST38hI think we should have a flame war
21:13.34wazd_RST38h: heya
21:13.40RST38hhey wazd
21:14.00RST38hLet me think what good incendiary topic I can come up with...
21:14.11wazd_RST38h: no flamewars until I get a new kb plz :)
21:14.26RST38hDon't you all think that MacOS X would be much better if it were Java-based thin client to mac.com ?
21:14.53RST38hI mea, isn't Web 2.0 and the cloud all the rage nowadays? =)
21:15.45erik____RST38h: nice troll :)
21:15.59RST38hhush!
21:16.36wazd_I'm Walt Mossberg. Shut up! xD
21:16.47RST38hah shit DOW is 9200+
21:16.48woglinde<PROTECTED>
21:17.07RST38hwazd: You did read that story about goths killing and eating an emo?
21:17.22RST38hwazd: And crucifying his pet hamster head-down?
21:17.48qwerty12_N810The poor hamster :(
21:17.59RST38hyes, I felt sorry for the rodent as well
21:18.10RST38haccidental collateral damage in this story
21:18.44wazd_RST38h: no O_o
21:18.59RST38hwazd: Your mention of Mossberg somehow reminded me... =)
21:21.07mavhcthat mossberg puppet was great
21:21.15wazd_RST38h: I think I don't want to know why :)
21:21.46RST38hguess so...
21:21.49GAN800wonders about fullmoons.
21:22.16RST38hin other news, everybody seems to have frozen waiting for iTablet
21:22.29GAN800Freaks are out in force today.
21:22.44*** join/#maemo melmoth (n=pamadio@80.10.39.22)
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21:23.18RST38hshow, show me
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21:25.43wazd_so, any kb except mbp and akb?)
21:26.17RST38hhas got an apple keyboard. The only apple product in the house
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21:27.25wazd_RST38h: 70$ is too much for me(
21:28.12RST38hwazd: and it isn't very comfortable either, really
21:29.12wazd_I've found some local crap called o-click :)
21:29.15RST38hwazd: for full size kbd, I would go with a logitech really.
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21:31.04wazd_RST38h: http://forum3.ru/descr.aspx?code=67724
21:31.30wazd_RST38h: "almost apple)
21:32.08RST38hit is no apple
21:32.25RST38hand, as I said, apple looks nice but isn't very comfortable
21:33.51wazd_the only things i need are playback/volume controls and low profile
21:34.41wazd_oh, and full layout
21:35.15lcuk2i dont think ive ever used any of the special keys on my kb
21:35.28johnsqwazd_: cherry evolution stream
21:35.31lcuk2i actively rip out any reset/poweroff buttons from the kb
21:35.57wazd_lcuk2: I use'em, so I ask for them :)
21:36.05lcuk2reasonable enough
21:36.24lcuk2power keys are bad - you reboot your computer by dropping something on em or pickin it up wrong
21:39.54wazd_lcuk2: If i'd make a keyboard someday - Ill leave em on the kb but make'em flush and slightly hard to press
21:41.46lcuk2wazd_, old computers used to have a little reset switch/rocker on the backside of them
21:42.39RST38hlittle?
21:42.51lcuk2heh
21:43.06RST38hPC XT had a huge red tumbler switch
21:44.50lcuk2on the keyboard?
21:45.12RST38hno, on the system block itself
21:45.13wazd_johnsq: can't find 'em here(
21:45.38*** join/#maemo brolin (n=brolin@iner.udea.edu.co)
21:45.40johnsqwazd_: http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B000HBAF7U/
21:46.02johnsqwazd_: don't know where "here" is :)
21:46.09wazd_johnsq: I mean for sale)
21:46.18wazd_johnsq: russia
21:46.29*** join/#maemo |thunder (n=e@c-68-61-172-71.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
21:46.42RST38hwazd: http://www.chd-corp.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=0&Itemid=323
21:48.34wazd_btw, long time ago I had an idea bout kbs
21:49.43wazd_to make a wide thin monochrome display above multimedia eys
21:50.09wazd_cheap and handy
21:55.49lbtwazd_: hi
21:55.59lbtdo you have that montage of Mer devices to hand?
21:57.16wazd_lbt: hooah
21:57.25wazd_lbt: yep
21:58.09lbtgreat - I'm prepping for the talk next weekend
21:58.16wazd_lbt: http://i038.radikal.ru/0908/38/9e0467a2ea7f.png
21:59.04*** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@54.200.49.122-static.velocitynet.com.au)
21:59.14wazd_lbt: look kinda old, I canfill em with new shots tomorrow
21:59.15lbtwe need the SmartQ7 and O2 joggler on there too now ;)
21:59.28wazd_lbt: oh
21:59.38lbtoh, well if you are then I'm not kidding after all!
21:59.56*** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@143.84-49-131.nextgentel.com)
21:59.57lbthttp://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Status/o2_Joggler
22:00.45wazd_lbt: I just need a keyboard for this, I broke mine(
22:01.27lbtwell, that pic is great... If you manage another then I'll use that
22:02.22wazd_lbt: screen kb on zaurus = fail)
22:03.05lbtthe SmartQ one is bad too - no arrow keys
22:03.36*** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-29-41.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net)
22:06.51GAN800RST38h, wazd_, http://www.pckeyboard.com
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22:13.33wazd_RST38h: oh my)
22:19.29RST38hgan: keyboard porn!
22:20.06wazd_GAN800: that's too brutal xD
22:20.27qwerty12_N810Would "hardcore" be defined as the plugging in/out of the keyboard? =)
22:20.45wazd_GAN800: Wish I could see em attached to mac))
22:22.31*** join/#maemo gomiam (n=user@84.79.25.26)
22:24.22gomiamok, weird problem: I just lost an option in the power-off menu (the one about normal and connectionless mode). Has anyone suffered this too and/or knows a way to solve it?
22:25.24gomiamand no, "turning it off and on" IT Guys' style didn't work either.
22:25.28gomiam;)
22:26.46gomiam(and yes, I looked it up but did't manage to write a good enough query on Google or something, which is an event in itself)
22:26.50qwerty12_N810gomiam: 1. check that /etc/systemui/systemui.xml contains the option to toggle and 2. make sure that /var/lib/mce/mode contains the mode that you are in
22:27.16gomiamchecking...
22:28.19qwerty12_N810On my tablet, /var/lib/mce/mode says normal and that is correct. As I am IRCing from my tablet, I'm not inclined to find out what it says when the tablet is in offline mode. ;)
22:28.49gomiamXD me neither, I'm tableting too
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22:30.50gomiamlots of kudos to you, qwerty12_N810
22:30.54gomiamthat was it
22:30.59qwerty12_N810Cool :)
22:32.38gomiamnow, if someone made a package to install the aireplay-able wifi module or the wpa one with PAP, I couldl live happy. I guess I'll have to muddle through ;)
22:34.43gomiamanyway, I'm in bed ans I should be sleeping instead of chatting. Thanks a lot for your help.
22:37.34RST38hHehe, Gizmo wisened up on Google Voice callouts
22:37.43RST38hThey now limit calls to 3 minutes and charge for them
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22:44.41pupnik_i'd like gizmo video calls on linux
22:50.42lbtI'd like a chocolate covered strawberry
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23:30.05GAN800wazd_, I got them to make a custom one for me.
23:30.20GAN800with Apple keys. I have pictures around somewhere.
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