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| 00:32.11 | Macer | well |
| 00:32.20 | Macer | looks like the touch book is just more vaporware |
| 00:32.26 | Macer | although thye have a day or 2 |
| 00:32.46 | Macer | i guess if they are going to make the "by july" deadline they lied about :) |
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| 00:43.01 | javispedro | wow is the werid palette swap for sdl applications actually a maemo 5 feature? ;) |
| 00:43.41 | javispedro | openttd "jupiter" editor -- blue trees!! |
| 00:43.48 | javispedro | s/editor/edition/ |
| 00:46.48 | javispedro | the #if MAEMO_VERSION > 5 then "assume-there-is-no-task-navigator-and-use-all-avalaible-screen-width" I put in there works pretty well |
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| 01:18.09 | Macer | waiting for this scan tool to get here |
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| 01:40.31 | parsimoniae | hello, I have a question |
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| 04:09.04 | genewitch | I did a cursory search on my n800, and found nothing on this: How do i get it to use an iPhone as it's internet connection? |
| 04:09.22 | genewitch | i got the bluetooth connected and it was set as the "phone" |
| 04:09.41 | genewitch | But no finagling could convince it to use it as an internet connection |
| 04:10.20 | Luke-Jr | if I had to bet, iPhone fails it |
| 04:10.40 | genewitch | i tried connecting it to a samsung phone with bluetooth and internet capability as well |
| 04:10.50 | genewitch | but i didn't have a chance to ask him what provider he used |
| 04:11.26 | genewitch | the help in the connectivity control panel wasn't helpful at all, either |
| 04:14.31 | GAN800 | Tethering is dead easy on Diablo. |
| 04:19.03 | genewitch | i'm not sure if i have diablo |
| 04:21.18 | genewitch | Linux Nokia-N800-43-7 |
| 04:22.00 | chx | genewitch: try go to Control Panel , About. |
| 04:22.43 | chx | but 43 7 sounds pretty recent... |
| 04:24.00 | genewitch | Version: 5.2008.43-7 |
| 04:24.12 | genewitch | Os maemo linux based os2008 |
| 04:25.15 | genewitch | The actual connection to the iphone and samsung worked, i just can't figure out what sequence of buttons on both devices i need to press to make the little internet icon light up without giving me an error |
| 04:27.02 | genewitch | oh... |
| 04:27.08 | genewitch | "Read PDA.net is now available for iPhone that for around $40 turns it into a wireless router." |
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| 04:27.28 | genewitch | so out of the box, the iphone is still worthless as anything useful |
| 04:27.41 | genewitch | I'll have to see if this other windows based phone will let me tether |
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| 07:15.15 | aquatix | morning all |
| 07:15.33 | Myrtti | mrhm |
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| 07:23.37 | RST38h | moorning. |
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| 07:48.26 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
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| 07:52.43 | Ave | meh, I've seen to destroyed ANOTHER n810 battery |
| 07:53.11 | Ave | the device sat in car for a week (initially full charge) and when I got it in, totally dead, won't boot etc it just power cycles when you connect charger |
| 07:53.21 | Ave | how the hell does the battery get deep discharged in that way |
| 07:53.43 | Ave | 1st one was authentic nokia one and tne second one was some cheap replica |
| 07:53.49 | Razumihin | Ave: It's hot outside? Lithium batteries can't take heat. |
| 07:54.11 | Ave | can't be sure, but it hasnt been particularly hot lately |
| 07:54.30 | Ave | luckily I have another battery in reserve |
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| 07:59.48 | Ave | I get 2,55 volts from the battery terminals |
| 07:59.58 | Ave | and that's under no load .. |
| 08:00.04 | X-Fade | Ave: That is pretty much dead. |
| 08:00.27 | Ave | and I thought the device and/or battery are guarded against deep discharge |
| 08:00.27 | RST38h | EHLo X-Fade |
| 08:00.32 | X-Fade | Ave: You might be able to recover, but generally the battery shouldn't go under 3.0v. |
| 08:00.45 | X-Fade | Ave: It should be. |
| 08:01.09 | Ave | with the replica-battery I can believe they'd skimp on protection like that |
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| 08:01.34 | Ave | is there a way to recover? |
| 08:01.38 | X-Fade | Ave: Protection is only in software in the device, I think. |
| 08:01.48 | Ave | lipo/lion is pretty sensitive |
| 08:01.52 | X-Fade | Ave: If you have a lipo charger ;) |
| 08:02.07 | Ave | heh, sadly no |
| 08:02.21 | Ave | I think I'll try warranty exchange.. |
| 08:02.32 | X-Fade | Ave: Sounds like the most sensible option. |
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| 08:07.45 | Ave | BP-4L is a bloody expensive battery fwiw, and rare these days as it only fits around 3 nokia models |
| 08:08.15 | Ave | E90, E61 and the n8xx? |
| 08:08.22 | Razumihin | Ave: N97 uses it also |
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| 08:08.27 | Ave | orly |
| 08:08.37 | X-Fade | Ave: But anyway, leaving it in your car is a bad idea if it gets hot. |
| 08:08.38 | Ave | thats good to know, meaning they'll soon be everywhere |
| 08:08.40 | Razumihin | yeah, at least the one on my desk ;) |
| 08:09.10 | X-Fade | Ave: hot -> voltage goes up, device thinks it isn't empty. Cool down -> voltage too low. |
| 08:09.14 | Razumihin | btw anybody got ideas how to hide scratches from touchscreen. |
| 08:09.21 | Ave | ah yeah |
| 08:09.35 | Ave | er no for scratches :| |
| 08:09.50 | Razumihin | I dropped my n97 from carstand to floor and now i've got 1cm x 1cm scratched area on the screen. |
| 08:10.00 | Razumihin | (so much for the scratch resistance) |
| 08:10.14 | RST38h | Razumihin: Should have bought 5800 |
| 08:10.20 | Ave | these new phones (no matter what manufacturer) cant stand any abuse .. |
| 08:10.24 | X-Fade | Razumihin: Hehe, it is probably not intended for that ;) |
| 08:10.37 | Razumihin | Yeah. |
| 08:10.38 | RST38h | 5800 survives abuse pretty well |
| 08:10.58 | Razumihin | RST38h: Yes many guys at the office have 5800s |
| 08:11.06 | X-Fade | I used toothpaste to remove scratches before, but I wouldn't use that on touchscreens :) |
| 08:11.17 | Razumihin | n97 is pretty rugged except the screen. |
| 08:11.40 | Razumihin | I tried toothpaste, but didn't help as the scratches are too deep. |
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| 08:11.50 | Ave | theres a new rugged phone coming from nokia, no frills |
| 08:11.52 | RST38h | X-Fade: I do not remember what N97 screen cover is but 5800 has got simple flexible plastic over the screen |
| 08:11.55 | Ave | finally I'd say |
| 08:11.57 | Razumihin | Carwax came to my mind but haven't tried yet. |
| 08:11.59 | RST38h | X-Fade: Nothing like n8x0 |
| 08:12.10 | X-Fade | RST38h: Yeah, and you don't want to go through that one ;) |
| 08:12.22 | RST38h | X-Fade: I doubt toothpaste can do that =) |
| 08:12.38 | Razumihin | If you don't use drill with the paste i think that is impossible ;) |
| 08:12.45 | Ave | X-Fade: well in theory, I should be able to heat the battery up (to get its voltage >3 volts) and then apply charger |
| 08:12.47 | X-Fade | RST38h: Depends on how deep the scratches are. (cuts) |
| 08:12.52 | Ave | .. and have it explode on my face |
| 08:13.16 | RST38h | Ave: You forgot the piece where you shoot it on video |
| 08:13.20 | Razumihin | I think i might try wax with that. It might fill the holes. |
| 08:13.22 | X-Fade | Ave: Yeah, applying constant voltage with regulated current is a much safer way. |
| 08:13.46 | X-Fade | Ave: But try the warranty route first. |
| 08:14.05 | Ave | sure |
| 08:14.25 | Ave | unfortunately I dont have a lab power supply at hand either |
| 08:15.07 | X-Fade | Ave: You can also parallel another battery with has a slightly higher voltage. |
| 08:15.24 | X-Fade | Ave: But that is also _very_ tricky. |
| 08:15.41 | Ave | wouldnt that qeual short circuit situation |
| 08:15.48 | RST38h | not exactly |
| 08:15.49 | X-Fade | No, parallel. |
| 08:15.54 | Ave | even so |
| 08:16.08 | X-Fade | But if the voltage difference is too high, the current will be too high. |
| 08:16.16 | Ave | I mean, should there be something inbetween to limit current further |
| 08:16.27 | RST38h | I guess the voltages will even out with respect to batteries' internal resistances |
| 08:16.28 | X-Fade | Ave: Use thin wires ;) |
| 08:16.32 | Ave | haha |
| 08:16.39 | Ave | sounds advice there |
| 08:16.40 | RST38h | Ah just exchange the damn thing |
| 08:16.52 | X-Fade | But the internal resistance of a lipo limits the current somewhat. |
| 08:16.54 | RST38h | Or blow it up, but do it spectacularly =) |
| 08:17.00 | Ave | I've gotoriginal packaging, now if I can dig up the receipt .. |
| 08:17.28 | X-Fade | I regularly charge my RC lipos in parallel, but you have to know what you are doing. |
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| 08:40.41 | Ave | ha, I found the purchase proof/receipt for the battery, by accident |
| 08:40.57 | Ave | in your face, deep discharged battery |
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| 09:21.18 | RST38h | 'There is little difference in nutritional value and no evidence of any extra health benefits from eating organic produce, UK researchers found.' |
| 09:21.27 | RST38h | rotfls slightly |
| 09:22.09 | Proteous | WHO KNEW!!! |
| 09:22.28 | RST38h | And who will know... |
| 09:23.44 | Macer | haha |
| 09:23.51 | Macer | RST38h: i never understood it either |
| 09:24.02 | Macer | the body seperates ... absorbs.. and discards |
| 09:24.18 | RST38h | Macer: The idea is that all normal food is genetically engineered and artificial genes are bad =) |
| 09:24.42 | RST38h | Macer: (of course, this is bullshit on multiple levels) |
| 09:24.54 | Macer | heh |
| 09:25.04 | Macer | normal food is genetically engineered? |
| 09:25.08 | Macer | like.. cows are bred? |
| 09:25.18 | Macer | or are we eating the cloned meat yet? |
| 09:25.20 | RST38h | Macer: that is one level at which it is bullshit |
| 09:25.29 | Macer | lol |
| 09:25.37 | Macer | the body just takes what it needs and discards teh rest |
| 09:25.50 | RST38h | People bred their food stuffs for centuries |
| 09:25.51 | Proteous | every kind of produce you find in the store has be selectivly bred to be in the form it is in |
| 09:25.53 | Macer | i don't see how even genetically "broken" food would change that |
| 09:26.16 | Macer | Proteous: like.. a tomato is bred to look like a tomato? :) |
| 09:26.19 | RST38h | Another level is that the stomach does not care what genes it converts to calories |
| 09:26.21 | Macer | haha |
| 09:26.25 | Macer | that's darwinism isn't it? |
| 09:26.37 | Macer | RST38h: it doesn't |
| 09:26.47 | Macer | well.. although the stomach is just one step in teh digestive process |
| 09:26.56 | Proteous | I don't think the body uses genes for calories |
| 09:27.00 | Macer | but the entire system in whole doesn't care ;) |
| 09:27.04 | Proteous | :P |
| 09:27.10 | Macer | personally i am not a fan of the "calorie" |
| 09:27.11 | RST38h | Macer: I still wouldn't eat US chickien though - it has got 6-12 legs for a reason =) |
| 09:27.15 | Macer | we should be using joules |
| 09:27.34 | Proteous | even then, the measuing methodes that are used to determin joules/calories is pretty bogus |
| 09:27.36 | RST38h | would have to use a shitload of joules |
| 09:27.45 | RST38h | better go straight to watts |
| 09:27.47 | Proteous | it doesn't represent the way the food is converted into energy in the body |
| 09:27.50 | Macer | RST38h: heh.. KJ ;) |
| 09:28.01 | Macer | Proteous: i suppose not |
| 09:28.09 | X-Fade | Any objections to disable promotion for packages starting with lib* and are in a user/* category? :) |
| 09:28.19 | Macer | there isn't a good conversion to input to output for food |
| 09:28.27 | Proteous | X-Fade, can't you see we are talking about food? |
| 09:28.29 | Macer | not enough factors really |
| 09:28.32 | RST38h | Proteous: One funny detail is that what "health" people call "calories" are in fact Kcal :) |
| 09:28.38 | Proteous | yeah |
| 09:28.47 | Macer | you can't determine the huge variable of the human laziness as opposed to a human that works |
| 09:29.20 | RST38h | X-Fade: Why don't you ask respective package maintainers? |
| 09:29.50 | Proteous | "eat food, not too much, mostly plants" |
| 09:30.09 | Proteous | Michael Pollan |
| 09:30.09 | X-Fade | RST38h: I want to set it as a rule, but am wondering if there are packages starting with lib which aren't a lib ;) |
| 09:30.13 | Macer | blah |
| 09:30.14 | Macer | bullshit |
| 09:30.22 | Macer | eat what you want when you want when you are hungry |
| 09:30.33 | RST38h | X-Fade: Maintainers should know |
| 09:30.55 | RST38h | X-Fade: And, btw, the package name does not necessarily mean it has got a lib inside |
| 09:30.59 | Proteous | let healthcare sort out the rest right? |
| 09:31.00 | RST38h | *or* not |
| 09:31.00 | Macer | i have seen people eat like slobs and not be fat because their body adapts to it and they aren't fat sloths that sit there on a computer or couch |
| 09:31.10 | X-Fade | RST38h: Well some maintainers don't know, that is the reason they set it in user/*. |
| 09:31.20 | RST38h | Macer: it is individual |
| 09:31.22 | Macer | if you are fat it is either because you yourself have a genetic problem |
| 09:31.24 | Macer | OR |
| 09:31.36 | Macer | because you are a lazy bastard that eats more than you work out |
| 09:31.36 | X-Fade | RST38h: You are right that it doesn't catch everything, but at least it should catch simple mistakes. |
| 09:31.41 | RST38h | X-Fade: Another idea: write a little script that lists all package contents and hunts for libs :) |
| 09:31.45 | Macer | so there is more input than output :) |
| 09:31.54 | Macer | fat people just don't know how to maintain the healthy balance |
| 09:32.00 | Proteous | if it was only as simple as that |
| 09:32.07 | Proteous | sadly the body is a complex thing |
| 09:32.09 | Macer | then they get fat and become even worse |
| 09:32.24 | Proteous | it regulates it's calorie buring based on many variables |
| 09:32.27 | Macer | because they are too tired to move all teh disgusting slothlike weight around |
| 09:32.45 | Macer | they they decided to build up by living like friggin' polar bears |
| 09:32.56 | Proteous | don't disrepect the polar bears |
| 09:32.58 | Proteous | :P |
| 09:32.59 | Macer | where they eat and eat and eat and sit somewhere doing nothing |
| 09:33.04 | Macer | actually |
| 09:33.08 | Macer | at least polar bears fish |
| 09:33.17 | Macer | people don't need to fish |
| 09:33.22 | Macer | they go to the store :) |
| 09:33.26 | Macer | ok.. i gotta go |
| 09:33.28 | Macer | later |
| 09:33.30 | Proteous | hah, cya |
| 09:33.40 | Proteous | rant and run as they say |
| 09:35.47 | Jaffa | RST38h: Shipping a lib as part of a user/* package is fine, as long as there's user accessible content. |
| 09:36.16 | Jaffa | X-Fade: I know I originally proposed it, but I say let's do that until it causes a problem for a user-facing package like "libertine" (made up) |
| 09:36.34 | X-Fade | Yeah, it is just to prevent libs showing up in AM. |
| 09:36.54 | Jaffa | X-Fade: The heuristic could be smarter: it requires more manual intervention by the QAers; or it checks for a /usr/bin or .desktop entry. If there's a .desktop entry in a lib... it can go into user/* |
| 09:36.59 | rkirti | maybe its a naive question, but what package provides the camel libs ? |
| 09:37.26 | X-Fade | Jaffa: yeah, with additional parsing it should be possible. But I was looking for the quick fix :) |
| 09:37.36 | Jaffa | X-Fade: Start with the quick fix and we can develop over time ;-) |
| 09:38.25 | RST38h | Jaffa: I find it difficult to draw the line then |
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| 09:38.43 | talig | Good day everyone :) |
| 09:38.58 | X-Fade | RST38h: I'm all for let's see when we get there. |
| 09:39.26 | RST38h | yea |
| 09:39.30 | Jaffa | RST38h: We've seen lots of libs which a dumb package maintainer puts in user/* along with the rest of their packages. extras-testing is supposed to have as much automated QA (perhaps warnings or tools) to make human QA as easy as possible. |
| 09:41.14 | RST38h | Jaffa: I think this stuff is so fuzzy that it should be decided by humans when promoting package to Extras |
| 09:41.40 | RST38h | Jaffa: I can even think of user/* packages that only contain libraries |
| 09:41.42 | X-Fade | RST38h: Problem is that the person who is doing the promotion, did it wrong in the first place. |
| 09:41.56 | Jaffa | RST38h: But if we can make the tool say "warning: this package looks like a lib and is in user/* - extra care needed", that streamlines the human QA |
| 09:41.59 | RST38h | X-Fade: Well, then the person has to get back and fix it :) |
| 09:42.09 | X-Fade | RST38h: I can't. Then another package should pull it in as dep? |
| 09:42.27 | RST38h | Jaffa: Yea, automated warnings are ok, as false positives are safe to have there |
| 09:42.32 | X-Fade | Well maybe in the plugin case. |
| 09:42.40 | RST38h | X-Fade: No, plugin or a Java framework |
| 09:42.52 | RST38h | X-Fade: Let us say you want MIDP |
| 09:43.08 | X-Fade | Still, an admin can always override. |
| 09:43.27 | Jaffa | RST38h: Then you're either installing a deb-packaged MIDP app which pulls in the framework; or a GUI app which allows you to run them (which pulls in the framework) |
| 09:43.28 | X-Fade | So then the dev can ping one to get it in. |
| 09:43.56 | X-Fade | As said: let's see when we get there. |
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| 09:48.28 | RST38h | Jaffa: Not entirely true |
| 09:48.54 | RST38h | Jaffa: You may install Java runtime (with all the gui launcher crap, although I would prefer a mime type definition) |
| 09:49.06 | RST38h | Jaffa: And then you would install a bunch of optional frameworks |
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| 09:49.38 | RST38h | Jaffa: These really do not have obligation to come with any executables |
| 09:49.52 | RST38h | Jaffa: Same goes for optional data like fonts |
| 09:50.30 | RST38h | So, as I said, the distinction is kinda fuzzy and I would suggest to decide on per-package basis rather than raise another set of iron rules |
| 09:52.33 | Jaffa | Point taken. No-one's suggesting iron rules; just some heuristic guides to stop the common cases. |
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| 09:57.06 | X-Fade | Jaffa: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/libgnokii4/0.6.28cvs-maemo2 |
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| 10:13.11 | wazd | hello all |
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| 10:29.22 | thux | helo |
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| 11:04.46 | Jaffa | X-Fade: What am I looking at (oh, the section's right now?) |
| 11:06.08 | Jaffa | X-Fade: I look at http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/horizon/0.0.5/ - and it shows the python2.5-runtime as red (because that's not right on Fremantle). Will I need to produce different package sources, or is the UI happy that one of the | is satisfied? |
| 11:07.03 | X-Fade | Jaffa: The OR is satisfied indeed. |
| 11:07.33 | X-Fade | Jaffa: That is one of the parts of the logic that took some time to develop, but now it works ;) |
| 11:07.36 | Jaffa | Goodo. Re-implemented your own dpkg algorithm (like HAM) or using dpkg's properly |
| 11:07.39 | Jaffa | ? |
| 11:07.59 | X-Fade | Walking the tree in the database. |
| 11:08.08 | Jaffa | Fair enough |
| 11:08.31 | Jaffa | So, that's in extras-devel. I click "Promote" and it goes into the QA queue and extras-testing? |
| 11:08.51 | X-Fade | Yeah, if I run the promotion. |
| 11:09.04 | X-Fade | Which I will do later today hopefully. |
| 11:09.11 | VDVsx | konttori_, ping |
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| 11:11.01 | Jaffa | X-Fade: I'll let you do more testing first. Let me know when you need some help, and I'll then help you write some docs (if you want) |
| 11:11.24 | X-Fade | Jaffa: Great that would be very helpful actually ;) |
| 11:15.19 | VDVsx | X-Fade, very cool feature :) |
| 11:15.54 | mikkov_ | Jaffa: you shouldn't use python-runtime as depency but the real depencies |
| 11:16.27 | X-Fade | ah yeah, python-runtim is the meta package. Which pulls in quite a lot. |
| 11:19.43 | mikkov_ | X-Fade: I promoted one package, should I see it QA-queue or somewhere? |
| 11:24.16 | Jaffa | mikkov_: Is there a list of what Python package provides what (hildon, osso, bluetooh etc.) or do I have to figure it out? |
| 11:24.37 | Jaffa | thought he'd seen documentation saying python-runtime was the preferred approach |
| 11:25.22 | mikkov_ | see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4246. I think you just have to figure it out, but it's quite simple |
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| 11:26.08 | Jaffa | mikkov_: Should be able to use dpkg-depcheck (or whatever it is) and run the app ;-) |
| 11:26.12 | qwerty12_N810 | python2.5-runtime just brings in everything. osso and hildon are python2.5-osso and python2.5-hildon, respectively. I remember that much |
| 11:26.58 | Jaffa | mikkov_: Presumably there are corresponding packages between diablo & fremantle with just the "2.5" present or not? |
| 11:27.30 | mikkov_ | Jaffa: package names are the same except the 2.5 thing |
| 11:28.35 | Jaffa | mikkov_: Cool, thanks |
| 11:28.42 | Jaffa | will try and sort that this evening then |
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| 12:44.38 | andre__ | Stskeeps, where's the difference between 4856 and 4520? |
| 12:44.38 | lardman | "morning" |
| 12:44.46 | andre__ | heja |
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| 12:45.48 | talig | Guys, did anyone ever try using ctypes in scratchbox? Looks like it's not installed, and since it's included in python there are no installation instructions online [None that I could find, anyways...] |
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| 12:48.12 | konttori_ | VDVsx: pong |
| 12:48.45 | Stskeeps | andre__: let me just see |
| 12:49.07 | Stskeeps | andre__: my bad, duplicate, but more reasoning in 4856 |
| 12:49.33 | VDVsx | konttori_, can you test a game on the maemo5 device for me ? it's a easy one, it runs in the SDK but has some problems, if it runs ok on the device I'll make a package |
| 12:49.36 | Stskeeps | just close 4856 |
| 12:49.40 | lardman | VDVsx: ping |
| 12:49.40 | andre__ | ok :) |
| 12:49.50 | konttori_ | VDVsx: I can try. |
| 12:49.51 | VDVsx | lardman, pong |
| 12:49.55 | Stskeeps | andre__: i went on a bit of a bug spree yesterday :) |
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| 12:50.00 | konttori_ | lemme see. I'll need to reflash the device. |
| 12:50.06 | konttori_ | it's in an infinite reboot loop |
| 12:50.12 | andre__ | Stskeeps, yeah. appreciated! |
| 12:50.18 | VDVsx | konttori_, http://jordan.trudgett.com/ only need pygame |
| 12:50.59 | VDVsx | konttori_, I've colour issues and fullscreen issues on SB, the rest works |
| 12:51.14 | Stskeeps | konttori_: it's good to see reboot loops feature is still there ;) |
| 12:51.22 | konttori_ | if it's pygame, then it will work. |
| 12:51.33 | lardman | VDVsx: is the shop-mate stuff reasonably uptodate atm? |
| 12:51.35 | Stskeeps | andre__: i have 3-4 sb-has-it-isms in queue but i'm waiting for answers to the current one :) |
| 12:51.47 | lardman | VDVsx: I see some pushes from yesterday so I'm assuming so |
| 12:51.56 | VDVsx | konttori_, also I've problems with sound |
| 12:52.00 | VDVsx | lardman, yes |
| 12:52.32 | andre__ | Stskeeps, Nokians put them to low priority currently (guess they're pushed getting Fremantle in a usable state) |
| 12:53.11 | Stskeeps | andre__: it's fine, this is good for us in the longer run |
| 12:53.16 | Stskeeps | less patches to maintain |
| 12:53.33 | Stskeeps | in the shorter run people will come to mer instead of maemo for source packages ;) |
| 12:53.52 | VDVsx | lardman, but don't expect too much, the student faced several 'beginner problems', but you know |
| 12:54.16 | andre__ | hehe |
| 12:54.41 | lardman | VDVsx: how much longer does the project last for? |
| 12:55.14 | VDVsx | lardman, ~ 20 August |
| 12:55.33 | VDVsx | lardman, he's working in the UI right now |
| 12:55.53 | lardman | ok, I'll have a look see |
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| 13:10.39 | X-Fade | mikkov_: ping? |
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| 13:13.19 | Stskeeps | andre__: nice opening to the maemo.org side of bugs that you can actually test the bugs on a fremantle device :P |
| 13:13.30 | Stskeeps | applauds that choice by nokia :) |
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| 13:14.13 | mikkov_ | X-Fade: pong |
| 13:14.35 | andre__ | Stskeeps, it was very helpful to clean up and retest, and if it still happens to forward |
| 13:14.43 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 13:14.45 | X-Fade | mikkov_: Just to check. You promoted both armel and i386 versions of crimson separately, right? |
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| 13:14.51 | andre__ | cleaned about 80 bugs by that, plus >100 enhancement reqeusts |
| 13:14.57 | lardman | bergie: ping |
| 13:15.00 | andre__ | i plan to blog about bug number changes since that happened, and in general in the last year... |
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| 13:15.20 | mikkov_ | X-Fade: yes, since it taking minutes (literally) I promoted the other one too |
| 13:15.26 | andre__ | still many diablo bugs are with specific hardware (e.g. routers), and of course i can't test that in fremantle :-( |
| 13:15.52 | X-Fade | mikkov_: Yeah, that was because the db was loaded last night. Should be better now. |
| 13:16.10 | mikkov_ | X-Fade: should I promote just the other one? |
| 13:16.17 | Stskeeps | andre__: the question is also the seperation of Maemo HW vs Maemo SW in software.. some bugs may simply not be there because Maemo HW was changed, and Maemo SW evolved |
| 13:16.34 | X-Fade | mikkov_: No, I will start to process the queue manually in half an hour orso. |
| 13:16.56 | X-Fade | mikkov_: But I wanted to be sure that what I see in the queue matches with what I expected. |
| 13:16.58 | mikkov_ | X-Fade: I mean generally, if I happened to promote someting else |
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| 13:17.37 | X-Fade | mikkov_: Normally you would only need to promote the armel one, the other archs should follow automatically. |
| 13:18.02 | mikkov_ | X-Fade: what about the depencies? |
| 13:18.22 | X-Fade | mikkov_: Every non user/* dependency will be promoted with it. |
| 13:18.30 | bergie | lardman: pong |
| 13:18.36 | X-Fade | mikkov_: But it will refuse to promote if there are user/* dependencies. |
| 13:18.57 | mikkov_ | X-Fade: cool, thanks |
| 13:19.20 | lardman | bergie: just wondering about bug #3692 |
| 13:19.27 | X-Fade | mikkov_: crimson pulled in for promotion: libsdl-net1.2, libsdl-ttf2.0-0 and zlib1g |
| 13:20.02 | mikkov_ | X-Fade: zlibg should be in nokia repositories, I believe |
| 13:20.06 | bergie | lardman: we need to make tool that will periodically check and try to reassociate authorships of discussion messages |
| 13:20.14 | bergie | now that is only done on import time |
| 13:20.23 | bergie | so if it didn't recognize the sender, then nobody gets karma |
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| 13:20.44 | lardman | bergie: any thoughts as to why that might happen - I've not changed my account at all |
| 13:21.01 | Jaffa | bergie: There's another election shortly, and a device programme (hopefully); we need to iron out as many of the outstanding karma issues as possible |
| 13:21.13 | X-Fade | mikkov_: Ah, yeah that was before I fixed the bug this morning. I think. Let me check :D |
| 13:21.15 | bergie | Jaffa: agreed |
| 13:21.32 | lardman | bergie: I guess it could be any random thing really couldn't it with the original import process |
| 13:21.35 | mikkov_ | X-Fade: there is newer zlib1g in sdk repo than in extras-devel |
| 13:21.58 | mikkov_ | which is not good |
| 13:22.28 | X-Fade | mikkov_: Yeah, the bug was that it would prefer any local version over newer versions in 'neighbour' repositories. |
| 13:22.31 | bergie | lardman, Jaffa: the karma calculation itself is fairly straightforward: http://friendpaste.com/1vtOL5CfsYI2isiHP28F2M |
| 13:22.35 | X-Fade | mikkov_: Like SDK in this case ;) |
| 13:22.43 | bergie | ...so the issue must be in the dataset (imported mailing list messages) instead |
| 13:23.11 | mikkov_ | X-Fade: refusing to promote when there is user/* depencies is going to cause problems with plugins |
| 13:23.32 | X-Fade | mikkov_: and they are not promoted already. |
| 13:23.42 | lardman | bergie: yeah, well in my case I have ~68 discussion karma, and I've sent a couple of emails recently that were added, I have sent >200 emails overall though, so some must have got lost before the count |
| 13:23.58 | X-Fade | mikkov_: If they are already in the target repo, it will allow promotion. |
| 13:24.32 | mikkov_ | X-Fade: ah, that should work |
| 13:24.33 | bergie | lardman: database says you have written 68 messages |
| 13:24.45 | X-Fade | mikkov_: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/crimson/0.5.3-1maemo2/ |
| 13:24.46 | lardman | bergie: my outbox says more ;) |
| 13:24.53 | bergie | what email address do you use when sending? |
| 13:25.03 | X-Fade | mikkov_: You can see now that zlib is indeed matched from sdk if you hover over the link. |
| 13:25.06 | lardman | bergie: always S.G.Pickering@bath.ac.uk |
| 13:25.32 | X-Fade | mikkov_: And it wasn't before this morning. |
| 13:25.36 | bergie | lardman: only 68 messages imported from that email address |
| 13:25.47 | bergie | (looking at the DB) |
| 13:25.50 | lardman | yeah, that's the problem |
| 13:25.58 | lardman | can you see the earliest date? |
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| 13:26.24 | bergie | first is from 2008-08-27 15:01:35 and last from 2009-06-03 19:25:09 |
| 13:26.39 | mikkov_ | X-Fade: zlib1g should be removed from extras-devel |
| 13:27.05 | lardman | bergie: let me check my outbox |
| 13:27.15 | lardman | s/outbox/saved messages |
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| 13:27.29 | X-Fade | mikkov_: I agree, although I still have to write the script to remove packages from the repo and update the database ;) |
| 13:27.38 | wazd | anyone knows Khertan's mail? |
| 13:28.24 | lardman | benoit hervier? |
| 13:29.00 | X-Fade | wazd: username@username.net ;) |
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| 13:29.25 | X-Fade | wazd: Where you replace username with his username ;) |
| 13:29.43 | wazd | X-Fade: thanks :) |
| 13:29.58 | lardman | oh yeah, my email is now going to get even more spam, oh well |
| 13:30.29 | X-Fade | lardman: Heh, yeah that is why I didn't want to paste his email in the channel. |
| 13:30.38 | lardman | I get loads anyway |
| 13:30.58 | lardman | a little more will make little difference, and you never know I am getting older, those little blue pills may be useful one day :D |
| 13:31.50 | X-Fade | Who knows ;) |
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| 13:32.13 | lardman | bergie: my first email, so far, was to maemo-users on 21/11/2005 @17.44 |
| 13:32.14 | X-Fade | And what's with these berries lately? I get those a lot. |
| 13:33.40 | bergie | lardman: actually the first date from your emails is 2008-08-08 |
| 13:33.47 | lardman | bergie: and I don't even seem to have the one sent on 27/8/2008, so there are probably a few more than the 288 I have counted here |
| 13:34.00 | bergie | but first overall message in the DB is from 2005-05-02 |
| 13:34.07 | lardman | though actually a few of these might be to GSoC and things, dunno |
| 13:34.18 | bergie | (I checked the import timestamp instead of message timestamp initially) |
| 13:34.28 | lardman | bergie: so mine should be there really |
| 13:35.21 | X-Fade | bergie: What happens if you select the messages based on the email instead of the matched author guid? |
| 13:35.33 | bergie | nothing from bath.ac.uk before 2008-08-08 |
| 13:35.41 | lardman | X-Fade: all the messages come from the same email address though |
| 13:35.46 | bergie | X-Fade: same numbers, I've been checking both |
| 13:35.48 | lardman | hmm, strange |
| 13:35.57 | bergie | the issue seems that we don't have all messages imported |
| 13:36.23 | X-Fade | Looks like they need to be wiped and re-imported from mbox :( |
| 13:37.23 | bergie | yep, most likely |
| 13:37.35 | bergie | I'd propose a CLI-based importer this time :-) |
| 13:37.37 | lardman | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2006-March/003373.html is my first post to -dev |
| 13:37.50 | lardman | so it does exist somewhere ;) |
| 13:38.14 | X-Fade | lardman: Yeah, we have all the mbox files backed up ;) |
| 13:38.18 | lardman | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-users/2005-November/000211.html and to -users there |
| 13:38.20 | bergie | X-Fade: can you check how many messages there are in the mbox files? |
| 13:38.26 | *** join/#maemo xnt14 (n=xnt14@pool-96-232-136-95.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 13:38.29 | bergie | so we have some idea of what % we're missing |
| 13:38.32 | X-Fade | lardman: So while they are not in the database, they are in the mbox. |
| 13:38.37 | xnt14 | ~seen b-man16 |
| 13:38.40 | infobot | b-man16 <n=b-man16@cpe-98-30-195-117.woh.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 7d 10h 30m 26s ago, saying: ' '. |
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| 13:38.44 | lardman | X-Fade: yep |
| 13:38.45 | X-Fade | bergie: Hmm let me check. |
| 13:38.46 | xnt14 | hmm :P |
| 13:38.50 | lardman | cheers chaps |
| 13:38.51 | lardman | :) |
| 13:39.03 | bergie | anyway, sounds like we just need to reimport them all ;-) |
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| 13:40.33 | lardman | shall I add the above to the info bug? |
| 13:40.45 | lardman | above info to the bug that should read |
| 13:41.17 | X-Fade | bergie: developers: 22012 |
| 13:44.51 | bergie | X-Fade: maemo-developers forum in DB: 12618 |
| 13:45.12 | bergie | maemo-users in DB: 10468 |
| 13:45.27 | bergie | maemo-community in DB: 1869 |
| 13:46.01 | X-Fade | bergie: I see 173 mails for simon in -developers. |
| 13:46.06 | lardman | I guess some of those emails will be from non-members so it's not quite as bad as it seems |
| 13:47.03 | X-Fade | When grepping for From: and bath.ac.uk ;) |
| 13:48.19 | bergie | OK, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3692#c28 |
| 13:49.43 | lardman | thanks |
| 13:50.45 | lardman | changing topic, does anyone have /etc/mce/mce.ini online somewhere? |
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| 13:52.58 | lardman | actually don't worry, have found some other code to change the LEDs directly |
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| 13:58.40 | RST38h | "Lance Davis, the main project administrator for CentOS, a popular free "rebuild" of Red Hat's Enterprise Linux, appears to have gone AWOL." |
| 13:59.00 | Stskeeps | he probably converted to debian or something |
| 13:59.20 | RST38h | Sts: Probably tried upgrading Python on his system |
| 13:59.48 | RST38h | Sts: With CentOS (did not check on Redhat) it is usually catastrophic |
| 14:03.06 | X-Fade | jeremiah_afk: ping? |
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| 14:14.43 | lardman | random python question, can I split my code into multiple files, then use "import" + filename (-.py) to import it into my main file? |
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| 14:17.03 | lardman | yes I can apparently, for anyone awake ;) |
| 14:18.03 | RST38h | yes you can |
| 14:18.12 | RST38h | but would you? <cackle> |
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| 14:19.12 | lcuk | puts a shoe on his head |
| 14:19.39 | lardman | hmm |
| 14:20.00 | lcuk | oh, hi lardman \o |
| 14:20.06 | lcuk | don't mind me |
| 14:21.58 | lardman | wonders if a kopfschuh exists like a handschuh, might explain lcuk |
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| 14:25.20 | lcuk | a vacuum guide? |
| 14:26.22 | talig | lardman: Sorry - indeed, as you already figured out - you can :) |
| 14:26.46 | talig | lardman: However as RST38h implied - this isn't necessarily the best practice. |
| 14:28.01 | lcuk | why isnt it best practice? |
| 14:28.17 | lcuk | its always a good thing to break down your code instead of having it in one monolithiclump |
| 14:28.40 | lcuk | itslikespacesinsentences,theyareoptionalbutgreatlyimprovereadability |
| 14:29.49 | talig | lcuk: Importing a file costs in terms of performance. Some break-downs are good, better for maintenance, etc. But you shouldn't overdo it. |
| 14:30.35 | nomis | talig: well, python is not really about high performance anyway IMHO. |
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| 14:30.56 | nomis | as long as you have a sane structure inside your modules I don't really see a reason to avoid splitting up. |
| 14:31.53 | lcuk | talig, fix the performance then |
| 14:32.26 | talig | nomis: saying "python is not about high performance" is like saying "N810 is not about usability". Who cares what it's about? You want to make the most of what you're given. |
| 14:32.26 | lcuk | does that also mean you should cut back on comments and stuff? |
| 14:32.41 | lcuk | can do that part :D |
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| 14:33.07 | talig | lcuk: If you want to re-read your code tomorrow and spend a day re-figuring it out - sure. |
| 14:33.23 | jpt9 | Hey. I'm trying to install Pidgin on my Nokia 770; it's running OS 2007HE. |
| 14:33.52 | lcuk | i re-read my code all the time and routinely pickup 1-3-5-10 year old modules and know whats happening |
| 14:33.52 | lardman | I'll probably do all my imports at the top anyway, so the slowness will be with startup then I imagine |
| 14:33.55 | lcuk | but i understand |
| 14:33.56 | jpt9 | For some reason, http://idefix.go-nix.ca/ seems to be down, which is where (I think) the actual files it need to install are hosted. |
| 14:34.02 | talig | lcuk, nomis: The point is tradeoffs. Everything has a price - take that into consideration. If you're willing to pay it - great. |
| 14:34.04 | jpt9 | I can install 2.4.3 for some reason, but it segfaults... |
| 14:34.08 | nomis | talig: well, I prefer sacrificing speed over code clarity. |
| 14:34.10 | jpt9 | Any ideas? |
| 14:34.23 | talig | lardman: yes, slowness will be in startup |
| 14:34.33 | lcuk | talig, i most certain am not, im a performance junkie, but there is a line and just bulking everything into one file is a bit ott |
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| 14:34.59 | lardman | talig: I can live with that while I develop the code anyway |
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| 14:35.26 | lardman | thanks chaps |
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| 14:36.11 | talig | lcuk: No one said bulking in one file IS good practice. I'm just stressing that you need to maintain balance. |
| 14:36.20 | talig | lardman: Makes sense to me :) NPO |
| 14:36.26 | talig | s/NPO/NP |
| 14:37.20 | talig | Speaking of python, anyone ever tried working with ctypes on the N8x0? [specifically, scratchbox?] |
| 14:38.46 | lardman | also speaking of python, can I exclude the self. everywhere if there are no variable clashes? |
| 14:38.58 | lardman | and no to the ctypes thing, I think |
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| 14:46.44 | lardman | anyone use pysqlite here? |
| 14:46.55 | lardman | should I wrap my calls with try, except to catch errors? |
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| 14:51.23 | talig | lardman: That depends (on the self. thing) |
| 14:52.44 | talig | lardman: if you're referring to the java-like this.var - then inside a defined class/module - you can - same as java. There's more subtelty regarding things like def self.method (which is the equivalent of a static method if I recall correctly, but I may be confusing with RU |
| 14:52.53 | talig | s/RU/Ruby/ |
| 14:53.12 | lardman | yeah I was just thinking about variables within class methods |
| 14:53.21 | talig | lardman: then yes :) |
| 14:53.27 | lardman | another quick question, " or ' are they the same? |
| 14:53.40 | lardman | wishes he'd brought his Python book to work |
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| 15:05.44 | X-Fade | lol, a judge in NL has just ruled that The Pirate Bay may not be available within 10 days for people in NL. |
| 15:06.00 | X-Fade | *anymore |
| 15:06.22 | Stskeeps | X-Fade: similar to danish one, except all of the telecom business has gone together and taking the case to supreme court :P |
| 15:06.32 | qwerty12_N810 | Not like it'll be worth going to TPB anymore, anyway :) |
| 15:06.43 | X-Fade | qwerty12_N810: Indeed. |
| 15:06.56 | Stskeeps | loathes tpb personally but that's another issue |
| 15:07.06 | X-Fade | qwerty12_N810: and now the want to go legit, it might create a new case. |
| 15:07.08 | *** part/#maemo zimmerle (n=zimmerle@200.184.118.130) |
| 15:07.19 | X-Fade | One of blocking a legit company ;) |
| 15:07.19 | Stskeeps | i doubt that trade will happen tbh |
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| 15:07.55 | Stskeeps | especially after the magic "open tracker" stuff |
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| 15:08.52 | X-Fade | It will be interesting to see where they want to enforce the block though. |
| 15:09.07 | Stskeeps | probably DNS level |
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| 15:09.21 | X-Fade | heh, that would be lame ;) |
| 15:09.50 | Stskeeps | in .dk it'll be a truely interesting case in the danish supreme court - censorship is explictly forbidden in the danish constitution :P |
| 15:09.55 | Stskeeps | yeah, but effective |
| 15:10.04 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: opendns? |
| 15:10.14 | Stskeeps | for those who know how to use it :) |
| 15:11.09 | pablo | where I find a repository Qtkinetic for fremantle? |
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| 15:36.31 | yigal | i'm installing easy deb. now is it possible to copy the image file to another image larger in size, and use the larger image? |
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| 15:59.08 | fiferboy | lbt: Hi! |
| 16:03.26 | lbt | hi |
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| 16:22.25 | andre__ | uargh. braindead nokia specs |
| 16:22.39 | andre__ | signature above the quote in email composer. crap. |
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| 16:27.48 | GAN800 | andre__, Modest is still going to be a piece of shit, isn't it? |
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| 16:28.29 | konttori_ | Stskeeps: what is nick of the guy who wanted me to test http://jordan.trudgett.com/ |
| 16:28.33 | andre__ | GAN800, it's definitely better than in Diablo |
| 16:28.39 | andre__ | but some stuff is... urgh |
| 16:28.51 | RST38h | why would anyone put signature on top? |
| 16:28.57 | GAN800 | Composing and viewing is still going to be broken as all get out. |
| 16:28.59 | andre__ | "In the case of a reply or forward, the signature shall appear immediately above the "Reply" or "Forward" separator" |
| 16:29.00 | andre__ | "This will allow the user to edit or delete the signature prior to transmission if required." |
| 16:29.04 | konttori_ | modest is really quite nice now. |
| 16:29.11 | andre__ | it's a feature, it's a feature! ;-) |
| 16:29.15 | konttori_ | in actual use |
| 16:29.25 | GAN800 | It's like these people have never used a real email client in their lives. |
| 16:29.33 | andre__ | damn. somebody hand over an argumentation against this please |
| 16:29.34 | GAN800 | At least GMail will be usable. |
| 16:29.45 | RST38h | konttori: Still hangs checking email via intermittent connections? |
| 16:30.04 | RST38h | andre: What are Reply/Forward separators? |
| 16:30.13 | GAN800 | konttori_, does it manage not to double-wrap plaintext emails? |
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| 16:30.23 | andre__ | RST38h, Stuff like "---Forwarded message---" |
| 16:30.44 | RST38h | ah |
| 16:30.45 | konttori_ | GAN800: i'll test |
| 16:30.47 | GAN800 | andre__, "use any real email client on the market." |
| 16:30.56 | RST38h | andre: I know why it is on top of that |
| 16:31.06 | andre__ | GAN800, these are non-arguments, and you know that :) |
| 16:31.16 | Jaffa | andre__: Point to the various arguments on top-posting. |
| 16:31.37 | Jaffa | andre__: There's an argument for forwarding, fine. But replies shouldn't be being separated like that - especially if there's a quote character. |
| 16:31.37 | andre__ | oh no, that means i have to google myself :-P |
| 16:31.45 | Jaffa | is about to get on a train ;-p |
| 16:32.00 | Jaffa | The problem is that the modest spec authors and developers seem fixated on an HTML email world. |
| 16:32.02 | andre__ | a cunning excuse, young man! |
| 16:32.03 | Jaffa | i.e. hell. |
| 16:32.05 | RST38h | andre: I think they suppose you to type in your reply on top, above your signature |
| 16:32.14 | andre__ | yeah :-( |
| 16:32.15 | RST38h | andre: While the original message goes under the signature |
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| 16:32.31 | VDVsx | konttori_, any luck ? |
| 16:32.56 | GAN800 | Basically, what Nokia is slowly pounding into my skull is that I should _never_ be optimistic about any product they lay their hands on and _never_ bother wasting my time trying to help improve them. |
| 16:33.47 | andre__ | too many broken promises, eh? yeah :-/ |
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| 16:35.17 | ShadowJK | What IS a reply or forward separator? |
| 16:35.46 | andre__ | ShadowJK, stuff like "---Forwarded message---" or "---Replied message---" |
| 16:35.51 | ShadowJK | huh. |
| 16:36.01 | andre__ | A: No. |
| 16:36.01 | andre__ | Q: Shall I top-post? |
| 16:36.10 | ShadowJK | Yeah.. |
| 16:36.26 | ShadowJK | and surely your forwards are base64 attachments anyway :-( |
| 16:36.29 | ShadowJK | so you don't lose headers |
| 16:37.10 | ShadowJK | is in the middle of replicating the email system from his home server onto his dedi server, adding imap.. |
| 16:37.17 | ShadowJK | I guess i should give up on using modest to read that then eh? |
| 16:37.22 | ShadowJK | hasn't used email on tablet before |
| 16:37.46 | RST38h | GAN800: Hello, Captain Obvious. |
| 16:37.52 | andre__ | Wikipedia says "Top-posting seems to be the most common style in business e-mail correspondence." |
| 16:38.06 | RST38h | andre: Here, Wiki solved it for you :) |
| 16:38.34 | thux | is there lot of strings which effect email programs like begin space space to old oe? |
| 16:38.45 | RST38h | Anyways, Modest is utterly useless until its background mailcheck process is fixed |
| 16:40.22 | thux | old oe made attachment for any email where was begin space space in beginning |
| 16:40.33 | ShadowJK | Fedex has funny email practices. SMSd me, called me. I called back, she gave me an email address to email. She also snailmailed a letter with the email address. I reply via email, and a few weeks later she replies, via snailmail. |
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| 16:44.19 | RST38h | ShadowJK: They rotate communication methods in a round robin fashion. |
| 16:49.47 | andre__ | anybody knows about signature top-post/top-bottom defaults in other mailers? like thunderbird or outlook? |
| 16:50.21 | ShadowJK | The more interesting question is... which mailers automatically trim the other person's signature? :) |
| 16:51.02 | andre__ | oh yeah, that's also very interesting! |
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| 16:51.54 | andre__ | eeks. starting thunderbird for the first time since years. still account preferences are messy as in netscape 4 :-( |
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| 16:52.47 | RST38h | Here, salivate: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/07/090730-moto_droid-01.jpg |
| 16:53.19 | javispedro | I salivate over the 4 row keyboard but not the general design of it |
| 16:53.30 | javispedro | hidden dpad, for example :( |
| 16:54.07 | ShadowJK | I just enabled signature in kmail. I clicked reply on a message. Kmail inserted "On Tuesday" ... "You wrote:" etc on the first line, then quoted the message I was replying to, but trimmed the signature away. It placed the cursor below the message, and the signature at the end. |
| 16:54.28 | RST38h | javispdro: It is still better than n810 dpad |
| 16:54.36 | RST38h | javispedro: and N97 dpad too |
| 16:55.09 | andre__ | ShadowJK, thanks a lot! Need data to convince managers.... |
| 16:55.26 | ShadowJK | The first signature being the signature of the person I was replying, and the second signature being my own |
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| 16:57.22 | konttori_ | VDVsx: I just wanted to let you know that I'm now starting to test |
| 16:57.55 | RST38h | andre: I think you will have better luck making suggestions that make Modest as absurd as possible |
| 16:58.15 | VDVsx | konttori_, cool thanks :) |
| 16:58.22 | RST38h | andre: For example, it may be worth suggestion bottom placement of From:/To:/CC: widgets |
| 16:58.33 | RST38h | s/suggestion/suggesting |
| 16:58.36 | andre__ | RST38h, seen that one, yeah |
| 16:58.46 | andre__ | RST38h, yeah, but as I said, the kitchensink feature is still leaking, hence the N900 cannot be sold yet ;-)) |
| 16:58.59 | RST38h | andre: mmm? |
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| 16:59.07 | andre__ | Re absurd suggestions ;-) |
| 16:59.12 | RST38h | ah |
| 16:59.30 | RST38h | andre: Seriously though, somebody has to do real testing on the mailcheck part (Camel) |
| 16:59.33 | javispedro | btw, can any of those with the "nokia mobile kitchensink device" test the openttd package i just uploaded to fremantle? ;) |
| 17:00.03 | RST38h | javispedro: btw, have you promoted the newest openttd into diablo extras? =) |
| 17:00.19 | javispedro | RST38h, not yet :) the newest opengfx instead |
| 17:00.28 | RST38h | andre: Not just address bugzilla trackers but seriously stress test it |
| 17:00.50 | RST38h | andre: As in placing the device just outside wifi range, keeping it there for a week or so |
| 17:00.58 | javispedro | i'd like to know if the sdl 8-bit palette "swap" i'm experiencing it's just a xephyr thing or happens on real device |
| 17:01.40 | andre__ | javispedro, hmm, cannot see that package in Application manager, but i guess that's because it's a library and not an app |
| 17:01.43 | ShadowJK | hm... does modest use / or mmc for storage? what about claws? |
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| 17:01.56 | javispedro | andre__, try openttd (it's user/games) |
| 17:02.08 | javispedro | (it'll pull opengfx) |
| 17:02.14 | javispedro | so no commercial files needed :D |
| 17:02.21 | andre__ | cannot see it yet |
| 17:02.35 | javispedro | ah, it build an hour ago |
| 17:03.03 | andre__ | javispedro, ping me tomorrow again :) |
| 17:03.04 | javispedro | http://maemo.org/packages/view/openttd/ btw nice job with that |
| 17:03.20 | andre__ | kudos to X-Fade and jeremiah for that iirc |
| 17:03.24 | andre__ | yeah, sexy |
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| 17:27.13 | ShadowJK | OK, I give up. I'm trying to make an account in modest. It says "Unable to discover supported secure authentication methods". But, uh, with tcpdump I see it's not even trying to contact server? wtf? |
| 17:27.49 | javispedro | VDVsx, sorry, I just request by accident to be the maintainer for Bluemaemo. Was just testing around the packages interface and didn't expect it would "store my request" without confirmation |
| 17:28.15 | Stskeeps | ShadowJK: claws ftw |
| 17:28.42 | javispedro | I guess I should file a bug since an HTTP GET request "SHOULD NOT" do any action |
| 17:28.47 | RST38h | Claws is really decent |
| 17:28.51 | RST38h | Including the UI even |
| 17:28.53 | andre__ | ShadowJK, thanks again for the kmail info. was very appreciated as i only have evo and thunderbird here |
| 17:29.53 | VDVsx | javispedro, np, but I didn't received any notification |
| 17:30.03 | ShadowJK | ok, so no secure authentication. Now how the hell do I make it connect |
| 17:30.13 | ShadowJK | pushes the refresh icon and it does... nothing |
| 17:31.47 | javispedro | ah, the bug was already filled https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4779 ;) |
| 17:32.02 | RST38h | you don'y |
| 17:32.04 | RST38h | t |
| 17:32.06 | ShadowJK | hm.. restarted it... now it connects to the imap server, queries its capabilities, and then disconnects |
| 17:32.23 | *** join/#maemo dieb_ (n=dieb@150.165.63.86) |
| 17:32.33 | ShadowJK | with no telling me the user if there was something unsatistfactory about the server's capabilities... |
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| 17:34.13 | ShadowJK | installs claws |
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| 18:02.45 | ShadowJK | claws is neat :) |
| 18:03.14 | Stskeeps | yes it is |
| 18:03.30 | Stskeeps | i'm thinking of adopting on my desktop too |
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| 18:40.15 | Jaffa | andre__: Google Mail puts signatures after replies' quoted text |
| 18:40.38 | konttori_ | VDVsx: so, have you developed that game? |
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| 18:43.54 | fiferboy | lbt: I just created a git repo for my birdlist project :) |
| 18:44.25 | Luke-Jr | Jaffa: uh, of course it does? where else would you put a sig? :þ |
| 18:46.31 | Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/460889/gpicview/screenshot09.png |
| 18:47.06 | qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: nice |
| 18:47.26 | Stskeeps | (saju seems to be quite good at this stuff |
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| 18:49.34 | Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: what is it? |
| 18:49.51 | Luke-Jr | an image viewer showing a blank ? |
| 18:50.10 | Stskeeps | gpicview hildonised |
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| 18:52.38 | Jaffa | Luke-Jr: We were discussing earlier what Modest's spec says it should do. It does not do what we'd actually want |
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| 18:53.51 | konttori_ | nice. python clutter packages are now available for arm: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/p/pyclutter/ |
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| 18:54.56 | Luke-Jr | Jaffa: there's not really many possibilities...? sigs are always at the bottom :þ |
| 18:55.24 | Jaffa | Luke-Jr: Is that a smiley at the end, cos it looks like a character not supported by my terminal |
| 18:55.39 | Luke-Jr | a :P |
| 18:55.39 | Stskeeps | luke uses utf-8 |
| 18:55.40 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 18:56.01 | Jaffa | How can :P be a utf-8 character? |
| 18:56.19 | Stskeeps | shows correctly on my terminal :P |
| 18:56.23 | Jaffa | Luke-Jr: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2009-07-30.log.html#t2009-07-30T19:22:25 |
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| 18:58.49 | Luke-Jr | Jaffa: I've been here for weeks, I have my own logs -.- |
| 18:59.25 | Luke-Jr | oh |
| 18:59.31 | Luke-Jr | stabs IRC client for screwing up links |
| 18:59.59 | VDVsx | konttori_, nop |
| 19:00.03 | Luke-Jr | wtf would you want a sig at the top of an email? |
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| 19:01.18 | konttori_ | ardenthyst starting. opens screen. |
| 19:01.31 | konttori_ | ... and crashed. |
| 19:01.51 | qwerty12_N810 | Can I have the rights to that movie? |
| 19:01.54 | VDVsx | konttori_, sound problem ? try with -ns |
| 19:02.02 | konttori_ | it was able to show something on the screen for a sec. |
| 19:02.05 | konttori_ | ok. testing |
| 19:02.44 | konttori_ | it shows now the logo |
| 19:02.50 | konttori_ | which seems to linger on the screen. |
| 19:02.55 | konttori_ | what should I do? wait? |
| 19:03.06 | VDVsx | konttori_, yes wait a bit |
| 19:03.13 | VDVsx | it's a loading screen |
| 19:03.56 | konttori_ | hmmm.. ok. |
| 19:04.04 | konttori_ | how long is it supposed to last? |
| 19:04.27 | VDVsx | konttori_, just a few seconds, at least in the sdk |
| 19:04.43 | konttori_ | hmm... seems to take much longer on the device. |
| 19:04.49 | konttori_ | I'll retry opening it. |
| 19:05.05 | VDVsx | konttori_, can you check the console output ? |
| 19:05.13 | *** join/#maemo ideamonk (n=ideamonk@117.192.229.94) |
| 19:05.23 | konttori_ | it's just saying that not starting sound module |
| 19:06.51 | konttori_ | it's not taking any cpu. |
| 19:07.08 | konttori_ | ... around 6% |
| 19:07.57 | VDVsx | :( |
| 19:08.11 | VDVsx | it also works in my n810, but is tooooooooo slow :P |
| 19:09.25 | konttori_ | any way for it to be more verbose on command line? |
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| 19:10.52 | VDVsx | konttori_, don't tink so, you can try with -q |
| 19:10.55 | VDVsx | slow mode :) |
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| 19:15.14 | Macer | hm |
| 19:15.23 | Macer | ok ebay auctions are scammed |
| 19:15.38 | Macer | people get their buddies to bid to drive the price up |
| 19:16.40 | Stskeeps | you're at 700 usd for a tablet atm? |
| 19:16.45 | Macer | now i am hoping i lose already |
| 19:16.47 | Macer | lol |
| 19:16.49 | Macer | no |
| 19:16.50 | Macer | hahaha |
| 19:16.53 | Macer | 220 |
| 19:16.58 | Stskeeps | if so, i'd like to sell you one for 699 |
| 19:16.58 | Macer | for a new one |
| 19:16.59 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 19:17.03 | konttori_ | trying now with -q option. it's consuming now 30% cpu. so, more than previously ;) |
| 19:17.08 | Macer | an n800? ;) |
| 19:17.12 | Stskeeps | nah, n810 :P |
| 19:17.13 | Macer | haha |
| 19:17.17 | Macer | no thanks |
| 19:17.29 | Macer | there is a wimax ed on amazon for 1500 |
| 19:17.30 | Stskeeps | you can also buy a slightly broken n800 for 230 .. ;P |
| 19:17.32 | Macer | lol |
| 19:17.33 | Stskeeps | 1500? wtf |
| 19:17.38 | Macer | i know |
| 19:17.39 | Stskeeps | even though it's a rarity.. |
| 19:17.45 | Macer | guess demand is pretty high |
| 19:17.50 | Macer | in baltimore |
| 19:18.03 | Stskeeps | iphone 3gs is like 1500 or something with subscription for 6 months included |
| 19:18.05 | Stskeeps | in .dk |
| 19:18.15 | Macer | wtf? |
| 19:18.21 | Macer | sll that for a compass? |
| 19:18.30 | Macer | sll/all |
| 19:18.41 | Macer | i just want the n810 for carman |
| 19:18.45 | Macer | :) |
| 19:18.51 | Stskeeps | in .dk they have to state the total cost of phone including the obligatory subscription |
| 19:18.53 | Macer | i already ordered my by scan tool |
| 19:19.03 | Stskeeps | and it's like 1000-1500 or something |
| 19:19.13 | Macer | i see |
| 19:19.17 | Stskeeps | which means i'm never going to complain about nokia tablet pricing again |
| 19:19.24 | Macer | att in dk? |
| 19:19.29 | Stskeeps | nah, we don't have att |
| 19:19.30 | Macer | or some other co? |
| 19:19.35 | Macer | ah. i see |
| 19:19.48 | Macer | like canadian rogers |
| 19:19.50 | Macer | heh |
| 19:20.15 | Macer | lots of people seem to have problems with htc and rogers |
| 19:20.21 | Macer | ah well.. bbl |
| 19:20.27 | Macer | i need a damn n810 tho |
| 19:20.36 | Macer | should have gotten one sooner ;) |
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| 19:20.58 | konttori_ | VDVsx: it opened! |
| 19:21.55 | konttori_ | the menu ran with decent speed. |
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| 19:23.18 | konttori_ | but then it jammed. I think there is something that is not working correctly |
| 19:23.42 | konttori_ | oh, now I see text coming from bottom. |
| 19:23.56 | konttori_ | but really slow. |
| 19:24.09 | VDVsx | that part is also very slow in the n810 :( |
| 19:24.11 | konttori_ | I think there is something that is not written very optimally in that game. |
| 19:24.19 | konttori_ | how do I skip it? |
| 19:24.23 | VDVsx | c |
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| 19:25.06 | konttori_ | c does not help |
| 19:26.29 | VDVsx | konttori_, sorry esc or return |
| 19:26.54 | VDVsx | c in the following screens (c acts like enter, lolol) |
| 19:27.14 | lbt | fiferboy :) |
| 19:27.14 | konttori_ | ok. well, I cannot skip it. |
| 19:27.50 | VDVsx | konttori_, don't have the return key :P ? |
| 19:27.52 | fiferboy | lbt: Now I can make major changes that I was putting off because I had no easy way of backing them out if they didn't work. |
| 19:28.05 | konttori_ | I have return key, but it doesn't work |
| 19:28.15 | VDVsx | konttori_, :( |
| 19:28.21 | lbt | using branches of course |
| 19:28.32 | fiferboy | lbt: Of course :) |
| 19:28.36 | konttori_ | well, key works, but the app is not responding to it. |
| 19:28.56 | fiferboy | An experimental branch for the changes, a build branch to merge onto, and a separate clone to do the actual build |
| 19:28.58 | konttori_ | and I know that pygame gets the key correctly as I use it in ukmp |
| 19:29.06 | VDVsx | konttori_, probably it will run slowly anyway, thanks for the effort |
| 19:29.13 | *** join/#maemo mat (n=mat@sd-16850.dedibox.fr) |
| 19:29.30 | lbt | explore branches that add a specific feature |
| 19:29.52 | lbt | once the feature works you merge back to master and discard |
| 19:30.02 | *** part/#maemo mat (n=mat@igoan/mat) |
| 19:30.16 | fiferboy | lbt: I am trying to determine how to best branch my application |
| 19:30.34 | fiferboy | Do I really need anything more than master (besides temporary branches) on a project this size? |
| 19:30.45 | konttori_ | VDVsx: you can estimate that the device is 2-3 times faster than n810. |
| 19:30.49 | lbt | well |
| 19:30.56 | fiferboy | Shoudl debian (and debian-maemo) be permanent branches? |
| 19:31.04 | lbt | if you maintain it |
| 19:31.04 | fiferboy | ~s/shoudl/should/ |
| 19:31.06 | konttori_ | some perf is lost on the compositing, but, if you run non-composited, of course, you gain it back. |
| 19:31.13 | lbt | not those, no |
| 19:31.22 | lbt | but I'd consider master=stable |
| 19:31.24 | konttori_ | and that game runs quite a bit better in non composited mode. |
| 19:31.29 | lbt | and what you publish to extras |
| 19:31.44 | lbt | and then consider what features you want to add |
| 19:31.55 | lbt | and branch-per-feature is common |
| 19:32.06 | lbt | until you are happy it's 'done' |
| 19:32.13 | lbt | then merge+discard |
| 19:32.14 | fiferboy | lbt: Right now I have a database-revamp branch |
| 19:32.25 | fiferboy | So when I am done the changes, I'll merge and discard |
| 19:32.53 | fiferboy | If I have problems with it down the line (say after several other changes) I can still back it out, right? |
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| 19:33.29 | lbt | yes |
| 19:33.48 | fiferboy | Excellent |
| 19:33.55 | lbt | equally you can branch master to fix a bug |
| 19:34.05 | lbt | and not have to disrupt db-revamp |
| 19:35.09 | VDVsx | konttori_, strange it 'runs' on my n810, probably some mad programming :), did you ran any game with decent graphics on the device ? |
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| 19:37.53 | fiferboy | lbt: I am finally confident when deleting vast swaths of code |
| 19:38.45 | lbt | heh |
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| 19:40.53 | ShadowJK | anyone got any experience with how much mail claws can handle? |
| 19:43.20 | derf | Less than 20,000 messages. |
| 19:43.55 | derf | At 20,000, it would load up my mailbox just fine, but as soon as it went to check mail, it started swapping and never stopped. |
| 19:44.22 | Stskeeps | ShadowJK: it handles my email fine |
| 19:44.58 | fiferboy | lbt: How is OBS going? |
| 19:45.11 | ShadowJK | derf: tried it with less? |
| 19:45.18 | derf | ShadowJK: No. |
| 19:45.21 | lbt | good - I'm almost done with phase one of the crossbuilding |
| 19:45.38 | derf | I didn't feel like deleting mail to test out a mail program that was obviously going to be unsuitable for me. |
| 19:45.43 | ShadowJK | derf: was that in one folder or spread across many? |
| 19:45.49 | derf | That was 3 folders. |
| 19:45.56 | ShadowJK | hm |
| 19:46.10 | Macer | blah |
| 19:46.13 | ShadowJK | abandons idea to import his email then |
| 19:46.40 | ShadowJK | I'll just limit myself to new emails during holiday |
| 19:46.43 | fiferboy | lbt: Phase one? I take it all subsequent phases are simple by comparison? |
| 19:47.51 | Macer | i didnt know pandora was a damn game system |
| 19:47.59 | Macer | like some handheld gaming crap |
| 19:48.08 | lcuk | konttori_, you sound like you can run in both composited and non composited modes, or was that part hypothetical |
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| 19:48.46 | lcuk | waves at everyone as well o |
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| 19:55.53 | lbt | fiferboy: phase 2 will be hard :) |
| 19:56.29 | lbt | first bit was getting i586 packages built in a way that they install "out of the way" on armel chroot |
| 19:56.45 | lbt | and then symlink over the armel variant |
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| 19:57.07 | lbt | and use .so libs that have been pushed to one side |
| 19:57.30 | lbt | all as part of the OBS build system and so you can use them seamlessly :) |
| 20:02.32 | fiferboy | lbt: This speeds up compilation? |
| 20:02.43 | lbt | that's the idea |
| 20:02.51 | lbt | like sb2 |
| 20:04.59 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (n=timeless@a88-115-12-126.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:05.56 | lcuk | qwerty12_N810, can i have a word |
| 20:06.50 | qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: sure |
| 20:06.57 | lcuk | :D |
| 20:08.48 | fiferboy | lbt: Is this something that needs to be maintained as packages change? |
| 20:08.58 | *** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (n=timeless@a88-115-12-126.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:09.04 | lbt | lightly (I hope) |
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| 21:07.48 | lbt | meh, I hate spammers |
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| 21:11.36 | talig | lbt: What's the occasion? |
| 21:11.58 | lbt | had to disable registration on the linux-raid wiki |
| 21:12.17 | lbt | just ..... GRRR |
| 21:13.29 | *** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@54.200.49.122-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
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| 21:14.54 | Macer | there is a linux raid wiki? ;) |
| 21:14.57 | Macer | heh |
| 21:15.08 | *** join/#maemo ikelos (n=mike@gentoo/developer/ikelos) |
| 21:15.17 | lbt | http://linux-raid.osdl.org |
| 21:21.09 | konttori_ | lcuk: you can easily go to non composited mode |
| 21:21.19 | konttori_ | you can just set a property of the x window. |
| 21:21.36 | lcuk | neat |
| 21:21.41 | konttori_ | and at the moment (at least), there is also a key combo to toggle non-composited mode for any windo. |
| 21:22.21 | konttori_ | atm the speed diff is 20-30% |
| 21:22.37 | konttori_ | hopefully it's less when I come back from vacation. |
| 21:22.48 | lcuk | so in a non composited mode the powervr is available for apps to use? |
| 21:26.01 | wazd | Anybody familliar with maemo5 sdk in here?) |
| 21:27.48 | konttori_ | lcuk: opengl is available in composited and non composited mode, both |
| 21:28.30 | wazd | konttori_: hey, how's the work on ThemeMaker going on? :) |
| 21:28.31 | konttori_ | and that is running hw accelerated through the powervr |
| 21:28.40 | lcuk | i know its available in both, but does turning off compositing actually give you exclusive access to it |
| 21:28.57 | konttori_ | wazd: haven't had time to improve it lately. Also, theme template has been changing recently. |
| 21:29.15 | javispedro | i assume there's no really "exclusive mode" |
| 21:30.01 | konttori_ | nope, but when you are drawing in that mode, all the rendering is direct. |
| 21:30.08 | wazd | konttori_: can't wait to draw something for fremantle :) |
| 21:30.41 | konttori_ | wazd: you should, definitely. Hmm.. I wonder how open the theme is already in sdk beta 2. |
| 21:30.43 | lcuk | made himself a new background |
| 21:33.44 | wazd | konttori_: dunno, it's impossible for me to install it :) |
| 21:34.03 | konttori_ | wazd: no vmware image available? |
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| 21:34.25 | lcuk | wazd, whats actually up? |
| 21:34.44 | wazd | lcuk: konttori_ old hands.sys drivers :) |
| 21:35.11 | lcuk | hands.sys? |
| 21:35.48 | wazd | lcuk: old joke :D |
| 21:36.02 | wazd | lcuk: I mean I'm too dumb to install it :) |
| 21:36.21 | lcuk | :) at least im not alone lol |
| 21:36.38 | lcuk | i have failed at installing practically everything ever in the history of mankind |
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| 21:38.04 | wazd | lcuk: I've installed m4 sdk though :D |
| 21:38.14 | lcuk | heh, me too |
| 21:38.47 | lcuk | but the first time i tried i destroyed the laptop OS and mustv killed at least 3 kittens |
| 21:38.58 | lcuk | full reinstall was needed |
| 21:39.09 | lcuk | but ubuntu install was refreshingly simple |
| 21:39.10 | lcuk | and quick |
| 21:42.02 | *** join/#maemo wazd (n=chatzill@gwh-1-22-val21.ln.rinet.ru) |
| 21:42.25 | wazd | oh my god, firefox has crashed! |
| 21:42.33 | wazd | first time ever I think :) |
| 21:42.56 | lardman | hmm, you must have more RAM than me then... |
| 21:43.01 | qwerty12_N810 | You're not using enough extensions, then, in that case... |
| 21:43.25 | wazd | lardman, I have more RAM than any human xD |
| 21:43.37 | lardman | that's quite a bit then :) |
| 21:43.44 | lardman | certainly beats my 4Gb |
| 21:43.54 | lcuk | lol @ more extensions |
| 21:44.02 | wazd | lardman, oh noes, another super-human! :) |
| 21:44.14 | lcuk | more ram than your operating systems can cope with |
| 21:44.46 | lcuk | simon, you have access to university mainframe dont you? |
| 21:44.49 | wazd | lcuk: x64 systems can cope with a fricking load of ram :) |
| 21:44.54 | lcuk | how much memory has your stuff got |
| 21:45.06 | lardman | lcuk: true, mine can only see ~3.5Gb as the graphics card takes up ~0.5Gb |
| 21:45.08 | lcuk | the operating system dictates that |
| 21:45.14 | lardman | strange address space on 32bit XP |
| 21:45.38 | lcuk | thats normal - the .5 missing is for shadow bios holes and stuff isnt it |
| 21:45.41 | wazd | http://www.cartype.com/pics/62/small/bmw_m5_emblem.jpg <- new maemo 5 logo |
| 21:45.44 | lcuk | not directly vid card memory |
| 21:46.18 | lardman | lcuk: can't remember to tell the truth, couldn't work out if it was the shadow stuff or graphics cards or whatever |
| 21:46.28 | lardman | M$ planned ahead with that decision either way ;) |
| 21:47.38 | lcuk | nahhh, thats global, even the linuxs cant i believe |
| 21:47.45 | lcuk | unless you move to 64b as wazd said |
| 21:48.27 | lcuk | wazd: http://liqbase.net/bmw_m5_emblem_x.jpg my god, i need sketching on desktop, i'd forgotten how hard it is to write using mouse |
| 21:48.59 | wazd | lcuk: lawl :) |
| 21:49.37 | wazd | Does anybody know if fremantle has some divider widget that separates rows in categories? |
| 21:49.51 | lcuk | what rows? |
| 21:50.10 | lcuk | i would assume it would depend on the control you are using that needs dividing |
| 21:50.28 | lcuk | ie one for toolbars, one for listviews, one for normal ui elements (a frame..) |
| 21:50.37 | wazd | lcuk: http://www.leancrew.com/all-this/images/bloglines-iphone.png something like this for example |
| 21:50.41 | lardman | ~lart BBC weather for claiming it was sunny and 19C here today when in fact it was ~15C and raining cats and dogs |
| 21:50.41 | infobot | takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking BBC weather's head off for claiming it was sunny and 19C here today when in fact it was ~15C and raining cats and dogs |
| 21:51.21 | lardman | http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8176799.stm |
| 21:51.26 | javispedro | the 32bit 4GiB issue is windows professional only |
| 21:51.35 | lardman | I hope he competes and gets his ass handed to him on a plate |
| 21:51.35 | lcuk | wazd, those are just alternative kinds of row elements in a list type control |
| 21:51.36 | javispedro | even windows server can fully use the 4GiB (PAE to the rescue) |
| 21:51.49 | lcuk | ahh thanks javispedro |
| 21:51.56 | lardman | PAE, yes I remember reading about that |
| 21:52.00 | wazd | lcuk: I want to make something like this: http://s46.radikal.ru/i112/0907/40/fd89e0c3aba1.jpg |
| 21:52.07 | lardman | Physical Address Extension or somesuch? |
| 21:52.15 | lcuk | lardman, who gets whos ass handed? |
| 21:52.18 | javispedro | yep |
| 21:52.26 | lcuk | i gather you are sticking up for hamilton |
| 21:52.27 | wazd | lcuk: I hope you understand that I should kill you now xD |
| 21:52.28 | lardman | Hamilton by Schumacher of course |
| 21:52.41 | lardman | no was, he's a c*ck |
| 21:52.45 | lardman | s/was/way |
| 21:52.53 | lcuk | schumacher is god |
| 21:52.57 | lardman | indeed he is |
| 21:53.08 | lardman | not quite up there with Senna, but still very God-like |
| 21:53.15 | wazd | schumacher is a german racer :) |
| 21:53.22 | lcuk | i whooped and swerved the car when i heard he was racing again |
| 21:53.24 | lcuk | goosebumps almost |
| 21:53.48 | lardman | when's the next GP then? |
| 21:53.51 | lcuk | we have seen his entire career |
| 21:53.51 | lardman | 2 weeks or so? |
| 21:53.55 | lcuk | no, its a bit longer |
| 21:54.02 | lcuk | nearer the end of the month |
| 21:54.12 | lardman | will have to make sure I'm about to watch it :) |
| 21:54.19 | wazd | so, what's about the divider?) |
| 21:54.28 | lcuk | im tempted to see if i can get tickets tbh |
| 21:54.41 | lardman | Valencia, 21st Aug onwards |
| 21:54.45 | javispedro | looks like buildin scratchbox1 itself is a years old art, hopelessly forgotten at the turn of the century |
| 21:55.02 | lcuk | wazd, it looks like you already have that |
| 21:55.06 | javispedro | anyday you'll see cave paintings telling you to "cd scratchbox; ./build" |
| 21:55.08 | Stskeeps | javispedro: be happy you don't have to build toolchains and tools for sb1. |
| 21:55.13 | lcuk | which part of it do you mean |
| 21:55.18 | Stskeeps | that part -really- gets you |
| 21:55.21 | lcuk | cos those ui elements dont look like they need to slide out |
| 21:55.27 | wazd | lcuk: that's just a mockup :) |
| 21:55.32 | lcuk | you can just make a section thats larger than the screen and place your stuff |
| 21:55.41 | lcuk | even a stylised label that looks like a divider ;) |
| 21:55.44 | Stskeeps | er, devkits, i mean |
| 21:55.46 | javispedro | finding debian sarge was hard enough ;) |
| 21:56.07 | Stskeeps | hugs OBS. |
| 21:56.34 | lcuk | wazd, the dividers dont have to be anything complex i expect, just get something stylised and the effect will come easily |
| 21:56.36 | wazd | lcuk: well, it would be better if there would be dedicated widgeet in terms of theming |
| 21:56.49 | lcuk | that mockup reminds me greatly of the ui test i put in the first liqbase vid ;) |
| 21:57.07 | lcuk | can you retheme an iphone? |
| 21:57.13 | lcuk | or just use whats there? |
| 21:57.29 | lcuk | i mean beyond changing desktop and positioning of icons |
| 21:57.34 | wazd | lcuk: non jailbroken iphone is unthemable ;) |
| 21:57.36 | lcuk | can you use a different widgetset |
| 21:57.56 | lcuk | i didnt think so |
| 21:58.13 | lcuk | they got a decent theme that works - and it makes everyones life simpler ;) |
| 21:58.53 | lardman | pysqlite is so much more succinct than C |
| 21:59.13 | lcuk | wazd, with that mockup, i would see if you could get it coded up simply in gtk |
| 21:59.23 | lcuk | using that style locally as best as possible |
| 21:59.35 | lcuk | and i bet you can have it looking really good and actually working nicely quickly |
| 21:59.39 | wazd | lcuk: I don't want to code it, I just asked if it's already exists :D |
| 21:59.48 | lcuk | that looks 100000000% better than the preferences screen i remember from omweather |
| 21:59.52 | lcuk | i know you dont |
| 21:59.54 | wazd | lcuk: if not - i'll find another way :) |
| 22:00.01 | lcuk | its not really coding anyway |
| 22:00.22 | lcuk | just use the gtk dialog editor thingy that ive forgotten the name of |
| 22:00.53 | lcuk | glade |
| 22:01.26 | lcuk | you can see quickly how it would play and export directly to pygtk and i believe get a mockup actually running without a simple "real" line of code |
| 22:02.54 | lcuk | wazd, everything i code i build in 2 principle steps: get the effect working in a specific case, then using the knowledge and experience of doing that, look at turning it into a generic model |
| 22:05.05 | lardman | lcuk: don't forget the crossing of fingers |
| 22:05.23 | lcuk | i never forget my fingers :) |
| 22:05.48 | lcuk | but yeah, theres lots of that |
| 22:06.27 | lardman | :) |
| 22:08.14 | lcuk | wazd, corners of your tickboxes arent alpha blended correctly :P you are slacking lol |
| 22:08.19 | *** join/#maemo abner (n=birunko@189.70.53.208) |
| 22:08.56 | lcuk | scrollbars in liqbase are about that size too, but they are transparent |
| 22:09.14 | wazd | lcuk: say hello to fremantle :) |
| 22:09.56 | lcuk | lol, which the missing alpha or the scrollbars |
| 22:10.27 | wazd | lcuk: scrollbars, alpha is just lazy me :) |
| 22:11.02 | javispedro | wtf |
| 22:11.07 | lcuk | yeah ive seen the bars and stuff i dont recall though if the lists had a direct addressing mode |
| 22:11.17 | javispedro | so, compatibility with the randomized vdso was added in glibc 2.3.3 |
| 22:11.22 | javispedro | but scratchbox is using... 2.3.2 |
| 22:11.31 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=valerio@bl5-203-49.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 22:11.36 | lcuk | hi VDVsx \o |
| 22:11.53 | javispedro | and the sb glibc patch seems to be 483 lines "only" |
| 22:11.55 | VDVsx | morning lcuk |
| 22:11.59 | VDVsx | lolol |
| 22:12.13 | lcuk | is goin camping this weekend |
| 22:12.22 | lcuk | i bought a lilo today! |
| 22:12.30 | lcuk | errr inflatable bed |
| 22:12.31 | lardman | hmm, I hope you've got a dinghy to take with you |
| 22:12.33 | VDVsx | lilo ? |
| 22:12.35 | lardman | :) |
| 22:12.57 | lardman | you can use a lilo in a lido |
| 22:13.04 | *** join/#maemo cmvo_ (n=cmvo@ex4.73a.net) |
| 22:13.11 | lcuk | lardman, yeah, thankfully we are on a hill and not in the bottom of a valley |
| 22:13.32 | lardman | sees mud slides |
| 22:13.34 | lcuk | just hope its not something like a dried up stream |
| 22:13.39 | lardman | lol |
| 22:13.39 | lcuk | :D oh yeahhhh |
| 22:13.51 | lcuk | \o/ water park |
| 22:13.54 | *** join/#maemo greentux (n=lemke@BAA5d8d.baa.pppool.de) |
| 22:13.56 | lcuk | it was bad last year |
| 22:14.02 | *** join/#maemo tank-man (i=1000@174.6.38.217) |
| 22:14.04 | lcuk | this year cant be any worse |
| 22:14.13 | lardman | lol final words |
| 22:14.19 | lcuk | yeah lol |
| 22:14.31 | florian | lcuk: repeat this afterwards ;) |
| 22:14.44 | lcuk | :) heh florian |
| 22:14.56 | lcuk | lardman, its the lake district too.. |
| 22:15.24 | wazd | VDVsx: heya |
| 22:15.32 | lardman | well at least it will be pretty when you're swept away |
| 22:15.32 | wazd | VDVsx: how's the keyboard? :) |
| 22:15.37 | lardman | be thankful for small mercies |
| 22:16.15 | lcuk | yeah, 3am pitch dark travelling at 40mph through a mud torrent on an inflatable matress |
| 22:16.32 | lcuk | something tells me im best not taking any technology i would like to continue using |
| 22:16.48 | lardman | well it will certainly make their summer holiday sound cool when they get back to school! |
| 22:17.05 | lcuk | not goin with the family, tis lads weekend |
| 22:17.10 | VDVsx | wazd, didn't started yet, after a full day of coding is difficult to code again at night, I know, I'm a lazy guy :) |
| 22:17.17 | lardman | SAR beacon perhaps, flare gun, heliograph |
| 22:17.26 | lardman | nah no point with the heliograph not enough helio about |
| 22:17.28 | lcuk | SAR bacon more like |
| 22:17.32 | *** join/#maemo carlosroundel (n=carlosr@static-82-85-252-15.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 22:17.34 | lardman | lol |
| 22:17.35 | lcuk | flar gun can cook it in a sinch |
| 22:17.40 | lardman | pay the heli driver you reckon |
| 22:18.20 | lcuk | nahhh if the weather is that bad, id rather be on the ground |
| 22:18.21 | lardman | I can just see the chap dangling on the end of the wire asking "do you have any bacon", "yes", "right pilot, set us down, lunch time" |
| 22:18.32 | lcuk | :D |
| 22:18.52 | lcuk | i need one of those mountain rescue dogs |
| 22:19.06 | lcuk | "right, the cafe was swept away and is somewhere under all this, FIND THE BACON!" |
| 22:19.22 | lardman | :) |
| 22:19.24 | *** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@stgt-5f70abf2.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 22:19.44 | lcuk | i got home before and went into the kitchen |
| 22:20.01 | lcuk | tracy had noncholently told me they had just eaten and so no tea.. |
| 22:20.21 | *** join/#maemo torkiano (n=torkiano@118.154.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) |
| 22:20.35 | lcuk | she ate bacon and didnt make me one! |
| 22:20.42 | javispedro | again talking about bacon |
| 22:20.50 | javispedro | what's with bacon? |
| 22:20.51 | lcuk | javispedro, hell yeah |
| 22:21.00 | lcuk | food of the gods |
| 22:21.04 | lardman | had you not stashed a secret supply somewhere, above the kitchen cabinets for example? |
| 22:21.09 | javispedro | did they release Maemo Frebacon and was the best release ever? |
| 22:21.24 | lardman | not yet, they're working towards it |
| 22:21.37 | lcuk | no lol, it never stays up there, and oinks to get down when i try |
| 22:21.52 | lcuk | "spider pig, spider pig" |
| 22:21.55 | jaska | oink |
| 22:22.06 | lardman | I've still not seen that film |
| 22:22.21 | lcuk | tis worth it :) |
| 22:22.38 | lcuk | if for nothing else than a whole simpsons story and no stupid adverts in the middle |
| 22:23.02 | lcuk | hates paying for cable tv and having adverts as well |
| 22:23.30 | lardman | no cable here, just don't-lie-the-rain-at-all over the air waves |
| 22:23.36 | lardman | s/lie/like |
| 22:24.37 | lardman | I've often sat trying to watch CSI (or anything on 5 for that matter) thinking about the failure mode of the MPEG2 decoder in my box, and why it produces green squares |
| 22:24.39 | VDVsx | lcuk, lcuk, buy the simpsons dvd, they come without adverts :P |
| 22:25.01 | lardman | genius! |
| 22:25.11 | lcuk | lardman, yeah digi is worse OTA than the gradial degreding analog had |
| 22:25.20 | lcuk | yeah VDVsx but im a skinflint |
| 22:25.24 | lcuk | the movie was enough |
| 22:25.24 | javispedro | i've often tried to sat and watch ANY modern tv series at all; I can't stand this "fuzzy cameraman" syndrome most series now come with |
| 22:25.26 | lcuk | lol |
| 22:25.38 | lcuk | its hip tho! |
| 22:25.43 | lardman | you don't like men with cameras and beards? |
| 22:26.02 | javispedro | i don't like they're ALWAYS shaking the whole image |
| 22:26.03 | Jaffa | lardman: All the DVB-T boxes I've seen (or, indeed, any degraded MPEG2 transmission) always ends up with those green squares IME. |
| 22:26.14 | javispedro | (and it's NOT my tv set ;) ) |
| 22:26.24 | lcuk | green is uninitialized yuv :) |
| 22:26.31 | lardman | javispedro: yeah agreed on that, same with films - to make the action seem actionish, but in fact you just can't see a bloody thing |
| 22:26.32 | lcuk | 0,0 on the UV planes |
| 22:26.32 | Jaffa | lcuk: Ah, of course. |
| 22:26.53 | javispedro | lardman, i actually saw one battlestar galactica ep where they camera DID NOT stop moving the whole ep |
| 22:26.54 | lcuk | learnt that quickly with liqbase |
| 22:26.56 | lardman | is that what colour it comes out then? |
| 22:27.03 | lcuk | yeah lardman |
| 22:27.16 | lcuk | its why also when codecs on windows break you normally get a green back too |
| 22:27.23 | lardman | javispedro: BSG is better than say the start of the latest Bond, or the fight in the last Bourne |
| 22:27.40 | lardman | ah, learn something new every day |
| 22:30.07 | lardman | mmm, Python is nice |
| 22:30.24 | lcuk | it has its advantages |
| 22:30.31 | lardman | less typing |
| 22:30.34 | lcuk | great as a binding glue between libraries |
| 22:31.00 | jaska | glue sniffing |
| 22:31.16 | lcuk | does python have introspection? |
| 22:31.30 | lcuk | o_O it does |
| 22:31.32 | lardman | I don't really know what it is |
| 22:31.43 | Stskeeps | it has insane introspection, too |
| 22:31.45 | lardman | knowing what class a given variable is? |
| 22:32.11 | lcuk | yeah, ability from code to recognise and do things based on the class its coming from |
| 22:32.12 | javispedro | yes, but a bit "beefed up" |
| 22:32.26 | javispedro | cause those days even C++ has typeinfo |
| 22:32.39 | lcuk | so the ability to pass an anonymous object in and have the ui show the available actions in a toolstrip is easy |
| 22:32.58 | Jaffa | thinks - in the absence of a decent Java runtime - most of his Maemo dev is going to be in Python from now on |
| 22:33.34 | Jaffa | Anyone with a Fremantle device want to test http://maemo.org/packages/view/attitude/ and let me know if it's still works, post-rename (from Horizon)? |
| 22:33.42 | lcuk | :) |
| 22:33.51 | lardman | yeah, give me 5 min |
| 22:33.51 | Jaffa | If so, I'll try X-Fade's extras-testing promotion thingy |
| 22:34.09 | javispedro | attitude install "fear of flying" |
| 22:34.10 | lcuk | o_O |
| 22:34.17 | lardman | :p |
| 22:34.20 | lardman | if only |
| 22:34.25 | Jaffa | tart |
| 22:34.28 | lardman | lol |
| 22:34.30 | Jaffa | javispedro: :) |
| 22:34.48 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-38-187.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net) |
| 22:35.37 | Jaffa | Oh, wow. Channel 4 OD has a Flash-based version which works in Linux now |
| 22:35.47 | javispedro | it's a nice name :) |
| 22:35.57 | wazd | VDVsx: oh, np :) |
| 22:36.19 | lardman | hmm, still need to build a box for under the TV so I can sit in comfort and watch the OD stuff |
| 22:37.00 | lcuk | what kind of box would you build |
| 22:37.04 | lcuk | and how would you control it |
| 22:37.31 | Jaffa | 's got a nice box under the telly. Which had its mobo sent back for ages; and now is PSUless. |
| 22:37.44 | lardman | is it quiet? |
| 22:37.53 | lcuk | im guessing, very |
| 22:37.58 | lardman | lcuk: wireless kb for the serious stuff, otherwise IR + remote |
| 22:38.09 | lardman | quiet is usually expensive |
| 22:38.14 | lcuk | that wasnt a trick q by the way - you have nokia tablets |
| 22:38.20 | lardman | ah I see |
| 22:38.21 | lcuk | i use mine to control the computer |
| 22:38.30 | lardman | yeah might be good, glorified remote control :) |
| 22:38.45 | lcuk | yeah bluemaemo or something |
| 22:39.00 | lardman | I might be able to use mine to override the wife's choice of viewing - no Ugly Betty for example, switch to World at War or the like |
| 22:39.00 | lcuk | ive got a little something that talks via sockets |
| 22:39.19 | lardman | sockets through the sockets? |
| 22:39.37 | Jaffa | lardman: Yeah. I used to have a fanless Mini-ITX; but I've now got an AMD with a quiet fan and an Antec quiet case |
| 22:39.46 | lcuk | no little remote control, ive got a silly little daemon on windows |
| 22:40.11 | lardman | Jaffa: next time round, now that digiral tuners are getting more reasonable |
| 22:40.14 | lcuk | that converts the commands to "sendkeys" operations to control the media player in front |
| 22:40.28 | lardman | lol no automation objects? |
| 22:40.41 | lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.20090624_222446.lib.scr.png nahhh |
| 22:40.48 | lardman | sendkeys is a bit old-skool |
| 22:40.48 | lcuk | i had to watch a movie the night i wrote it |
| 22:40.54 | lardman | fair enough |
| 22:41.14 | wazd | is there any screenshot of fremantle's volume/seek bar? |
| 22:41.15 | lcuk | besides, the ir remote control it replaced used to also work on keys |
| 22:41.25 | lcuk | it was great because it worked on multitple things almost without config |
| 22:41.34 | lardman | true, that is useful |
| 22:41.34 | lcuk | volume seek bar? |
| 22:41.38 | lcuk | i havent seen anything media |
| 22:41.52 | lcuk | it used to sit inline with the keyboard itself |
| 22:41.59 | lcuk | was a great little thing i had it for years |
| 22:42.10 | lcuk | os agnostic and reliable |
| 22:44.10 | Jaffa | X-Fade: ping |
| 22:47.32 | *** part/#maemo kkrusty (n=cache@5ac02034.bb.sky.com) |
| 22:48.48 | esaym153 | what is the latest version of os2008? |
| 22:48.55 | esaym153 | Just got my new 810 in |
| 22:49.39 | lardman | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:51.14 | lardman | anyone got a non-Mer kernel flashed? |
| 22:51.53 | *** join/#maemo mr (n=cache@5ac02034.bb.sky.com) |
| 22:52.02 | *** part/#maemo mr (n=cache@5ac02034.bb.sky.com) |
| 22:52.31 | lcuk | i have, but im out of juice |
| 22:54.23 | lcuk | im goin anyway, gotta pack and stuff for tomorrow |
| 22:54.29 | lardman | esaym153: I reckon it's probably DIABLO_5.2008.43-7 |
| 22:54.31 | lcuk | gnite chaps (emulating lardman!) |
| 22:54.49 | *** join/#maemo kkrusty (n=cache@5ac02034.bb.sky.com) |
| 22:55.01 | esaym153 | lardman: yea that is what I think I got. I didn't know they put the latest on new 810's? |
| 22:55.04 | esaym153 | guess so? |
| 22:55.06 | *** part/#maemo kkrusty (n=cache@5ac02034.bb.sky.com) |
| 22:56.32 | lardman | well there are some updates since then, over the interweb |
| 22:56.54 | lardman | I imagine they would put the latest build on the machines if they can |
| 22:57.22 | Jaffa | esaym153: Depends on when things are manufactured, I guess. |
| 22:57.23 | esaym153 | for some reason I thought that ssu was never put on new 810's |
| 22:57.27 | *** join/#maemo MrGoose (n=cache@5ac02034.bb.sky.com) |
| 23:14.38 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N810 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 23:16.19 | wazd | oh, I've found it! |
| 23:16.25 | wazd | http://static.maemo.org/static/7/79a662b4389c11de84fc715fab1629e929e9_controlpanel.PNG |
| 23:17.15 | lardman | night night all |
| 23:18.51 | esaym153 | anyone use psp screen protectors on these? |
| 23:23.11 | wazd | esaym153: I've used for a while |
| 23:23.18 | esaym153 | any good? |
| 23:23.49 | wazd | esaym153: well, psp protector definitely not made for stylus using :) |
| 23:24.19 | esaym153 | ohh... |
| 23:24.58 | esaym153 | well waht are some good protectors? Or do I really need any? |
| 23:25.41 | wazd | esaym153: well, I'm using my n800 without protector |
| 23:26.13 | wazd | esaym153: yes, screen is slightly scratched but I've bought it to use, not to store or resell :) |
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| 23:27.57 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@cpc3-oldh7-0-0-cust590.manc.cable.ntl.com) |
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| 23:45.21 | caotic | ahh if there only where a way to integrate a cellphone to the n810, mabe controlling the cellphone using bluetooth |
| 23:49.01 | esaym153 | hmm, I can't seem to play any of the audio files that came with my 810. Do you have to install audio codecs or something? |
| 23:49.46 | GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Screen_protector |
| 23:50.32 | Jaffa | esaym153: Not for WAV/MP3/AAC files, no. How are you trying to play them? What happens? |
| 23:51.15 | esaym153 | I am trying to set the alarm clock, when I select any of the supplied sound files it says "nothing to play" |
| 23:51.20 | esaym153 | same in media player |
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