IRC log for #maemo on 20090719

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02:29.09xnt14~seen b-man16
02:29.11infobotb-man16 <n=b-man16@cpe-98-30-195-117.woh.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 23h 22m 16s ago, saying: 'i'm shure you can find one for under $200 ;)'.
02:29.15xnt14hmm
02:29.20xnt14~seen FireFox16
02:29.21infobotfirefox16 <n=b-man16@cpe-98-30-195-117.woh.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 10d 22h 2m 30s ago, saying: 'damn :('.
02:29.30xnt14~seen IceFox16
02:29.31infoboti haven't seen 'icefox16', xnt14
02:29.43xnt14hmm
02:29.53xnt14:P
02:30.09xnt14got a google wave invite!!!
02:30.15xnt14hmm
02:30.20xnt14well its not bad
02:30.46chxxnt14: where?????
02:30.49xnt14still needs some ui inprovments and it needs to cut back on ram usage
02:30.57chxxnt14: I would like a Google Wave invite so bad it hurts.
02:31.12xnt14chx, sign up for the dev invite form thing :P
02:31.18xnt14thats what i did
02:31.22chxoh? where?
02:31.27xnt14I signed up two weeks ago
02:31.34xnt14and I got activated today
02:31.49xnt14:P https://services.google.com/fb/forms/wavesignupfordev/
02:31.56xnt14well
02:32.02xnt14I tried it on my nit
02:32.14xnt14it crashed microb so bad it crashed the whole os :P
02:32.27xnt14it needs MAJOR ram improvements :P
02:32.42xnt14my ipod crashed, but not instantly
02:33.11xnt14wonders if he should make a maemo/mer wave....
02:33.35GAN8001It didn't crash MicroB
02:33.39GAN8001Triggered the watchdog
02:33.53xnt14well, it rebooted my nit
02:34.37GeneralAntillesRight, at 100% CPU for too long.
02:34.56xnt14I thought it took up all the ram :P
02:35.30xnt14on iPhoneOS, the kernel reboots if the ram gets full
02:36.25xnt14wonders if there are people in here who are on google wave..
02:36.27xnt14*...
02:38.29xnt14hmm... http://gizmodo.com/5317680/nokia-trademarks-c+series-of-devices
02:38.36xnt14maemo phones? :P
02:38.41xnt14err
02:38.49xnt14maemo 5 phones? :P
02:39.01GeneralAntillesOOM killer generally kills apps, but doesn't reboot.
02:39.08GeneralAntillesSeems unlikely
02:39.21GeneralAntillesNetbooks seems like a more believable story to me.
02:39.37xnt14hmm
02:39.41xnt14your right
02:40.10xnt14nokia  C1? :P
02:40.31GeneralAntillesEngadget's coverage of the filing is particularly hilarious.
02:41.03xnt14hmm
02:41.14GeneralAntilles"crap"
02:56.40xnt14lol: http://gizmodo.com/5317285/full+size-gundam-get-attacked-by-laser-during-inaugural-ceremony/gallery/
02:57.10chxThis is pretty silly to ask, i know (remember? i do not have an n810. lost one which i had only for a few weeks) but is there an MP3 player on the N810? A good one... like Songbird on the desktop.
02:57.47xnt14well
02:58.05xnt14I use mpd + sonata, works pretty well for me.....
02:59.49chx? i want to play the music on the device
03:01.34xnt14mpd is a background program which plays music in the background
03:01.35xnt14and
03:01.45xnt14sonata is a nice gui interface to mpd
03:02.02xnt14by the way mpd stands for music player daemon
03:02.04xnt14:P
03:02.43chxi know
03:02.55chxbut i thought that runs on a desktop and sonata is a remote?
03:03.24xnt14mpd can run on the device itself too
03:03.55chxinterestin'
03:04.01xnt14sometimes, I run mpd on my nit and I run sonata on my desktop for easy song change
03:04.21xnt14https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mpd/
03:04.32xnt14and sonata is in the repos
03:04.48chxgreat, thanks
03:04.51xnt14just download all the debs onto the nit and install via app manager or dpkg
03:04.56xnt14np :)
03:05.22xnt14you just need the deb files from the mpd section and the libs section ;)
03:05.35xnt14mpc is for command line controll
03:06.00xnt14and a2dpd is for stereo bt headphones
03:06.18chxoh, i am old fashioned and use wires.
03:06.25chxI have a Bose QC3.
03:07.06chxThat thing, while pricey, is almost mandatory for longer flights
03:07.08xnt14well, I want to get a motorokr s9 :P
03:07.09xnt14brb
03:07.28chxI wear glasses and also hate sticking anything in my ear, which pretty much reduces the available noise cancelling headphones to the QC3.
03:20.44xnt14im back
03:21.41xnt14:P I also wear glasses, and I'm stuck with apple earphones, I really want to get a motorokr s9 but my parents won't let me get one :P
03:22.53Luke-JrI think I wouldn't mind digitizing many of my inputs
03:22.59Luke-Jrat least eyes and ears
03:23.30Luke-Jrchx: Maemo doesn't have any decently usable software, really.
03:23.55chxLuke-Jr: I think I have learned about your attitude yesterday and I am not buying it
03:24.15Luke-Jrchx: fine, learn the hard way :þ
03:24.23chxi had an n810. it worked.
03:24.30chxas said, it's not perfect.
03:24.31Luke-JrN810 Maemo is unmaintained anyway
03:24.36chxthere is nothing else.
03:24.38Luke-Jrmodern Maemo versions don't support the N810 anymore
03:24.44chxand...?
03:25.03chxthere are a number of N810 users still and they will support
03:25.09chxheck, there are 770 users even.
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03:25.43xnt14lol
03:25.53xnt14hmm
03:26.07xnt14twitter fail (for now xD) http://smarterware.org/2486/when-you-put-data-in-you-should-be-able-to-get-it-out
03:26.17xnt14backs up his tweets
03:26.48Luke-Jrchx: they have already said they WON'T support it
03:27.10xnt14chx, are you a linux user?
03:28.06chxLuke-Jr: who are the "they"? Everybody who owns an N810 and codes for it? dont be silly
03:28.09chxxnt14: since 1993.
03:28.15Luke-Jrchx: Nokia
03:28.20xnt14Luke-Jr, Mer is maemo5 for the n8x0, and when the n900 comes out, ill buy it and give my nit to my dad, its not outdated
03:28.26chx[20:25] <chx> there are a number of N810 users still and they will support
03:28.35xnt14chx, :)
03:28.47xnt14linux 5 years ;)
03:29.03chxxnt14: on the desktop only since 2004. it took a while... i used for a bit in 1999 but then Windows 2000 came and that was good enough for a while.
03:29.13xnt14is a 14 year old linux user xDD
03:29.17xnt14hmm
03:29.25xnt14well...ok :P
03:29.28Luke-JrI think I've been using Linux about 11 years
03:29.39Luke-Jrchx: that's not Maemo, that's Mer
03:29.56Luke-Jrchx: and Nokia won't support it themselves
03:30.14xnt14luke-jr, nokia supports mer...
03:30.14chx?
03:30.18Luke-Jrwhich would be fine, except that the N810 has closed hardware
03:30.44Luke-Jrthat the community alone cannot use
03:30.45chxwhat on earth are you talking of
03:30.50Luke-Jrthe GPS mainly ☺
03:30.54Luke-Jrbattery charger too I guess
03:34.28xnt14hmm
03:34.31EdLinsound
03:34.43xnt14yup
03:34.47xnt14your right about that
03:34.53xnt14chx, btw im 14 :P
03:34.54Luke-JrEdLin: sound works fine :þ
03:35.02chxxnt14: hah
03:35.04xnt14:
03:35.06xnt14:P
03:35.09EdLinLuke-Jr: sound works in non-maemo?
03:35.13xnt14hates his keyboard
03:35.18Luke-JrEdLin: if you use a recent kernel
03:35.23Luke-Jrlike 2.6.30-rc8
03:35.42EdLinLuke-Jr: which alternate non-Maemo stuff supports sound on the n810?
03:35.55Luke-JrEdLin: I have used it in Gentoo
03:35.59chxxnt14: that's fine, i have a friend who is not yet 14 and he was a good enough programmer to give a google tech talk when he was 12.... (oh and he is an award winning composer too)
03:36.03Luke-Jractually, one thing I couldn't get: microphone/input
03:36.12Luke-Jrbut tbh, the N810's mic sucks anyway
03:36.38xnt14chx, awesome
03:36.39xnt14nice
03:36.45Luke-Jrchx: Google has pathetic programmers, that's nothing special
03:36.53Luke-Jrthey can't write decent code for beans
03:37.28xnt14Luke-jr, just shut up, I'm sick of you yelling about random crap
03:37.32Luke-Jrxnt14: no u
03:37.36xnt14argh!!!
03:37.44Luke-Jrxnt14: when was the last time you saw a decent Google product?
03:37.54Luke-Jrhint: the only one I've ever *heard of* was purchased from another company
03:38.06Luke-JrKeyhole, no idea what they renamed it anymore
03:38.18chxyou can talk when you have written a better webmail than gmail
03:38.23xnt14Google wave has potential
03:38.25xnt14gmail ftw
03:38.35Luke-Jrxnt14: ever looked at gmail code?
03:38.43xnt14have you?
03:38.45Luke-Jrchx: not difficult, really, just time consuming
03:38.48Luke-Jrxnt14: yes
03:38.51xnt14hmm
03:38.52Luke-Jror rather, analyzed it
03:39.01Luke-Jrxnt14: GMail uses ActiveX
03:39.05Luke-Jrif it can
03:39.12chxand...?
03:39.17xnt14who cares
03:39.20chxthey do their best to deliver an experience
03:39.21Luke-Jrbecause Google doesn't know how to write standards-compliant code that works in all browsers
03:39.24xnt14I don't use ie
03:39.39chxnow
03:39.53Luke-Jrxnt14: the main problem is their inability to write portable webapps
03:39.56chxyou just told everyone know who knows that everyone already suspected: you know jack shit
03:40.04Luke-JrGMail targets Firefox and IE
03:40.16Luke-Jrwhat browser does GMail work in that it isn't specifically targetting?
03:40.18chxif you think "standards compilant code" works in all browsers then you never ever tried to write any webapp.
03:40.27chxOpera to begin with.
03:40.30xnt14hmm
03:40.33Luke-Jrchx: my browser is standards compliant
03:40.43chxyes but IE is not!
03:40.55xnt14IE is utter crap, it ms' fault
03:41.08xnt14burns IE for the 988888th time
03:41.12Luke-Jrchx: the real problem is that their code is all written for specific browsers, not to adhere to standards
03:41.25chxof course.
03:41.32chxthat's pretty understandable.
03:41.35xnt14yes
03:41.51Luke-Jra proper developer would write it according to the standards, and go back and add IE support hacks as a conditional
03:41.55chxare you sure you want to explain to *me* the what and the how of web application?
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03:42.44xnt14hmm
03:43.24Luke-Jrand anyone can look at Chrome's code
03:43.26Luke-Jrugh
03:43.51Luke-Jrobviously the right way to do Chrome would be to use a portable language like Qt4
03:44.01xnt14hmm
03:44.04Luke-Jrnot write a Windows app and go back to port it later
03:44.24Luke-Jrand then port it in the worst way possible
03:44.44xnt14well windows *is* the most used platform
03:44.51xnt14ok then
03:45.13Luke-Jrxnt14: Qt4 apps run on Windows, Linux, and Mac without many if any code changes
03:45.23Luke-Jrnative appearance on every platform
03:45.37xnt14chromium is open source, go and rewrite chrome in qt4 then
03:45.47Luke-Jrxnt14: no need, there are already better browsers
03:46.03xnt14just shutup, your giving me a headache
03:46.08Luke-Jrlol XD
03:46.11Luke-Jrlet's play Yandere then
03:46.17xnt14nah
03:46.26xnt14I want to go back to hacking flightgear
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05:24.11Macerhm
05:24.16Macerwin7 speed is like xp
05:24.18Macerit is snappy
05:24.24Macerwonder how they managed to get vista to go fast
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05:55.16chxSeriously! someone ported *freeciv* to Maemo?
05:55.18chx<3
05:58.33EdLinMacer: they probably made Vista go-slow on purpose, because MS sells operating systems by selling hardware. When that backfired, they removed the speed brakes.
06:01.02chxbtw how can i press a key like f4 or f12 on the n810?
06:01.16chxnot too easy to google on that.
06:06.58chxeven tear wanted some of those
06:12.30MacerEdLin: sells operating systems by selling hardware?
06:12.32Macerheh
06:12.42Macermeaning they made it slower to make people think they needed faster hardware?
06:12.59Macersome of the idiotic stuff these apps try to install
06:13.08Macerl;ike nero7 tries to install the ask toolbar?
06:13.15Macerdaemontools tries to install a daemon search bar?
06:13.16Macerwtf?
06:13.31Stskeepswindowshell
06:13.39Maceryah
06:13.42Macerinstalled win7
06:13.47Maceropensolaris wasn't cutting it as a desktop
06:13.51Macerworks GREAT as a server
06:13.56Macerbut :) as a desktop it seriously sucks
06:18.32RST38hMoo Macer
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06:22.00chxso no idea on function keys_
06:22.04chx?
06:24.19Macerhaha
06:24.27MacerRST38h: yup
06:24.31Macermooooooooo
06:24.32chxxkbd ?
06:24.57Macerid use debian if it didnt run slow on this k45
06:25.15Macerseems like xorg has really shitty intel vid drivers
06:26.50chx<PROTECTED>
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08:26.28Stskeepsponders if anyone ever tried tiddlywiki in Tear
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08:51.04Stskeepswoo, at 999 thanks at iTT
08:51.15Stskeepswith 500 posts
08:51.34RST38hHeya Sts
08:51.42RST38hAh, you karma whore...
08:52.22Stskeepsyes, i am :P it gives me a hint that i'm doing something right.. which i kinda need or i get bored :P
08:53.12RST38hHeh, can't argue with that
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08:55.23RST38hSts: BTW, I have found yesterday that no amount of handcrafted assembly code makes VGBA display drivers any faster
08:55.28RST38hKinda disappointing =(
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08:55.55Stskeeps:(
08:56.19RST38hI am probably hitting a memory bandiwdth wall somewhere, dunno...
08:57.03Stskeepsponders if he has a micro to minisd adapter somewhere
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09:18.28Stskeepsyawns
09:18.55JaffaMorning, all
09:20.37Stskeepsmorning jaffa
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09:26.48wazdhooah Maemo
09:35.48RST38hheya wazd
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10:11.11RST38hyawns. Anything interesting today?
10:11.54wazdRST38h: Nokia Trademarks "C-Series" of Devices :)
10:14.54RST38hwazd: Yea, seen this
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10:15.33RST38hwazd: Personally, I think they either going to move nnnn devices to Cnnnn or use C series for netbooks
10:16.47wazdRST38h: the second variant is more expected I think
10:17.06RST38hwazd: Yes, but only if you believe that Nokia is going to start making netbooks
10:17.16wazdRST38h: cause dumbphones don't need series to tell everybody that they're dumb :)
10:17.44RST38hwazd: Lots of nnnn phones are no longer dumb
10:18.02RST38hwazd: And lots of them are better made than underbaked Nseries
10:18.18wazdRST38h: who knows, maybe Nokia's vision of netbooks differs from the World's :)
10:18.35wazdRST38h: 6300 is cool. yep :)
10:19.44wazdRST38h: but again, "dumbphones" are those bricks without any major OS like Symbian or something
10:19.52RST38hYou mean S40
10:19.56RST38hAnd lower
10:19.59wazdRST38h: or s30 :)
10:20.06RST38hThere is also S30? Hm
10:20.22wazdRST38h: It's dumb-dumb phones :D
10:31.31RST38h"Quick rule: if it made it onto t-shirts, if you remember it even though high art makes you queasy, its real."
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10:38.04wazdwonders why the hell he should close Firefox to uninstall Illustrator
10:38.46RST38hWhy should computer do all the work? :)
10:39.24wazdRST38h: I just don't get the connection between them :)
10:39.33RST38hAh who cares
10:39.42RST38hProbably installing some FF extension
10:40.42wazdoh fuck
10:40.55wazdI bet he would ask to close FF to INSTALL it
10:41.03wazdgoddamn :(
10:41.10RST38hWho "he"? The Satan, I hope?
10:41.36wazdRST38h: ofcourse, who else can make such a bad jokes :)
10:44.47wazdI knew it...
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10:48.46RST38hAMD started pushing its Atom competitor to the masses...
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11:11.22lcukwhat a cool overview!
11:11.23lcukhttp://fc08.deviantart.com/fs49/i/2009/199/8/4/Computer_hardware_poster_1_7_by_Sonic840.png
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11:31.40RST38hHmm...Orange RCA is a digital audio plug...
11:34.13lcukRST38h, is that something thats wrong, or an odd port you have noticed on the back of your rig
11:34.24RST38hAn odd port
11:34.36lcukheh
11:34.44RST38hI have got the toslink port on the media pc, but obviously can't use it
11:35.10lcukyeah you can only watch original star trek episodes with it
11:35.48RST38huse it for the Borg light, yea
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13:37.27slonopotamusneeds someone with CAL storage format understanding
13:42.58slonopotamusLuke-Jr, ping
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14:39.03Macerhttp://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=50933
14:39.11Macerwhy is it so secretive?
14:39.35Maceri mean seriously.. is the gpu going to allow nations of concern thermonuclear warhead codes?
14:39.55Macer"We have PowerVR source! We conquer world now!"
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14:41.55lcukMacer they could take over the world without powervr, but how can they render the slick ui without it
14:42.18lcukwhat kind of self respecting evil genius maniac runs their destructive operations in 2d?
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14:47.44MasterOfNothinghey there good people :) I have a problem with scrobbling using maemoscrobbler w/default media player on an n810 with Diablo firmware. could anyone of you help?
14:47.51RST38hMacer: ImageTech is afraid for its "intellectual property", that's all
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14:49.17lcukis it legal to scrobble in public?
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14:51.00MasterOfNothing@lcuk: no, it's strictly prohibited, but I just have to take my chances :P
14:54.04lcukMasterOfNothing, i heard that certain european countries allow scrobbling in your own home, and in selected coffee shops
14:54.41lcukas for cgetting the software to work i havent got a damned clue
14:56.31MasterOfNothingreally? no, haven't heard that, although last.fm has placed some restrictions on radio listening for non-subscribers in countries other than US, Canada and Germany
14:56.47Stskeepsthe 3 euro is worth it
14:57.25MasterOfNothingthe problem for me is that other apps like Canola and Vagalume - which have built-in scrobblers - scrobble just fine. it's just that the maemoscrobbler refuses to...
14:57.52MasterOfNothingI have looked at syslog and all, but I couldn't get any more info out it either
14:58.40MasterOfNothingFrom the control panel I can see either "Could not connect" or "Invalid username?" errors...
15:00.52MasterOfNothingStskeeps, sure, it's not that much. although it did case quite an uproar in the last.fm community upon announcement
15:01.12Stskeepsi agree, but there's no free lunch
15:01.29Stskeepsi pay happily, saves me a load of trouble
15:03.20Stskeepscombine with thelastripper.com ..
15:03.51MasterOfNothingyeah, but I suspect that people were just mad that some countries got it for free... oh, well... I do very much like the service though, so for my part 3 $ isn't a big deal either
15:04.53MacerRST38h: so cant the just release closed bins?
15:05.03Macerthe/they
15:05.46Macernvidia still does that dont they?
15:06.02StskeepsMacer: gpl problems
15:06.12Maceroh hawd
15:06.18Macernot the fucking gpl
15:06.26Macerhawd/gawd
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15:07.01Macerthen let them release the open stuff
15:07.26Macergpl doesnt say you are required to put your own code out there
15:07.52Maceryou only have to make sure you provide the code protected by the gpl
15:08.04Macerlike unclassified cia documents
15:08.45Macersometimes i think the gpl was a mistake
15:08.47Macerheh
15:09.11Macernot very well thought out in practice but released as concept
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15:11.52lcukMacer, whats better then
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15:13.57Maceri dunno
15:14.13Macergpl + proprietary lic?
15:14.34Macerwe can call it the gp+pl
15:14.46lcukthat doesnt help people tho
15:14.50derfWait, wait, I've got a name, the LGPL!
15:14.56Macerbecause +s make things cooler
15:15.03lcukusing gpl+prop license only allows base code to be used
15:15.06Maceroh yeah
15:15.20Macerlgpl does that doesnt it?
15:15.30Macerhides
15:15.39lcukyeah, but you cannot just take a GPL app, add your own wrapper to it and call it lgpl
15:16.08derfYes, and that's by design.
15:16.10Maceri am thinking 3d accel proprietary gpu driver
15:16.24Macercompareds to a wrapper
15:16.57derfThe GPL is very clear. "If you want to take advantage of my code that I'm letting you use, you play by my rules."
15:16.57lcukwe do not know the ancestry of the powervr code though
15:17.07derfIf you don't like the rules, don't use the code.
15:18.43lcuki wonder what point that begins to breakdown tho, i bet like evolution, eventually the source will be transformed so much it loses its original identity
15:19.14derfI don't know. SCO taught us we can trace code back 30 or 40 years, if we have to.
15:19.53lcukthe only thing they taught us was that darl mcbride was a cocksmoking teabagger with less brains than a shrinp
15:19.56lcukbut i digress
15:20.47lcuk^m :D
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15:34.40wazdhttp://interfacelove.blogspot.com/ <- wth is that
15:39.56RST38hhmm
15:43.29radicwhere are the connection settings stored?
15:43.59qwerty12_N810gconf: /system/osso/connectivity
15:46.05wazdhttp://www.onlineasithappens.nokia.com/gallery <- weehehe, I have 4 hours to make something :D
15:46.09wazdany ideas?)
15:48.57radicqwerty12_N810: was the message for me?
15:49.21qwerty12_N810radic: yes
15:49.55radicqwerty12_N810: in / isn't a dir named "system"
15:50.16qwerty12_N810I said gconf.
15:50.43slonopotamuswazd, that crap doesn't work in microb :)
15:51.03wazdslonopotamus: it's a real crap so you don
15:51.12wazdslonopotamus: don't miss anything :)
15:51.43slonopotamuswazd, hehe. you're using desktop kb
15:52.00slonopotamuscommon bug - to hit enter instead of ' :P
15:52.04radicqwerty12_N810: I want edit the config file(s) withe nano
15:52.19wazdslonopotamus: yep, I need a better one
15:52.44wazdslonopotamus: but if you want something done good - do it yourself :(
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15:56.34orangeyhey all!
15:57.13orangeyAre see I'm trying to install android
15:57.24orangeyany good tutorials out there?
15:57.44orangeyAt the moment, when I try to run it, I get: Setting up android-installer (1.0.0-2) ...
15:57.44orangeycp: cannot stat './root/android-installer/sandroid.sh': No such file or directory
16:00.25radicqwerty12_N810: If I'll connect there are many python instances rising and make a lot of load
16:01.35radicargh...
16:01.41radicso eine scheisse...
16:04.09qwerty12_N810radic: What's the contents of /etc/network/if-up.d and /var/lib/alarmd/alarm_queue.xml ? (pastebin)
16:09.28radic/var/lib/alarmd/alarm_queue.xml doesn't exist
16:14.26radicnow again, many python instances...
16:14.44radicand if I kill them the device works fine
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16:16.26RST38bisnow i know what tablets are for...
16:17.06CutMeOwnThroatdoorstopper?
16:17.07orangey?
16:19.21RST38bisnooo
16:19.54RST38bisit is for those moments when the laptop battery dies
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16:24.24CutMeOwnThroatah, laptop as doorstopper
16:24.43CutMeOwnThroat+: heavier
16:25.01CutMeOwnThroat-:doesn't wedge as well into the gap under the door
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16:25.54RST38bismine is not much heavier
16:26.21radicI'm confused
16:26.48radicpython wasn't installed but 2.5 binarys where there
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16:27.08radicnow I installed 2.4 and the problem was solved...
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16:27.59orangeyhey all. I'm trying to install android, but I get: cp: cannot stat './root/android-installer/sandroid.sh': No such file or directory
16:28.05orangeywhat gives?
16:28.22orangeybut /root/android-installer/sandroid.sh exists
16:28.41radicorangey: and ./root/android-installer/sandroid.sh ?
16:28.48orangey./ to what?
16:29.05orangeyfrom my current working directory?
16:29.06radicorangey: remove the leading point...
16:29.16orangeyradic: ah. Perhaps I've been confusing.
16:29.57orangeyradic: # dpkg -i android-installer.deb  \ Setting up android-installer (1.0.0-2) ... \ cp: cannot stat './root/android-installer/sandroid.sh': No such file or directory
16:30.14orangeyI'm not sure what working directory it uses, otherwise I would make a link
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16:33.10radicorangey: you are tring to copy ./root/android-installer/sandroid.sh
16:33.22radic./root/android-installer/sandroid.sh
16:33.35radicremove the .
16:33.37orangeyradic: *I* am trying to do nothing. It is within the android-installer.deb's processes
16:33.55radicorangey: then correct the install-script
16:34.11orangeyradic: How can I do that? I was trying to figure out how to get into the .deb
16:34.27radicar -x blah.deb
16:34.43radicthen you have a data.tar
16:34.44orangeyah. great. thank you
16:35.17orangeyI thought the main container was a .gz or bz2 and was trying to play with that.. anyhow, thanks.
16:35.43orangeyI ended up having success by moving it to /
16:35.47orangeyand then running dpkg from there
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16:37.16radiclol?
16:37.19orangeyon another topic, any news about the successor to the n810? Last I heard, there was a slightly smaller thing coming out. has the date or anything been fixed on it? or specs or whatnot?
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16:39.31orangeywow. android on n810! pretty cool, though obviously of limited utility at this time : )
16:43.15radicorangey: what are the differences between N800 and N810?
16:46.34orangeyradic: is there a keyboard on n800?
16:47.12chxorangey: the N900 likely comes out at Nokia World 09
16:47.20chxorangey: September 2-3 in Stuttgart.
16:47.45orangeychx: are the specs all confirmed yet?
16:47.56chxorangey: pretty much
16:47.57orangeythat thing people were talking about on t.m.o?
16:48.03orangeychx: with the smaller screen?
16:48.18chxAFAIK
16:48.24orangeyalrigth.
16:48.28orangeywell, looking forward to it
16:48.33radicorangey: no
16:48.36orangeythough I'm not fabulously excited by the smaller screen
16:48.40orangeyradic: then that's one key difference.
16:48.41chxin like two years i will buy one
16:48.48orangeychx: why?
16:48.58orangeychx: THe main thing I'm feeling the pain of is no GSM
16:48.58chxonce the bugs ironed out and the ridiculously high price is decreased
16:49.02radicorangey: but your camera could be easily fingerprinted ;)
16:49.05orangeyoh. what will the price be?
16:49.06chxorangey: it will be HSPA
16:49.16orangeywhat's hspa?
16:49.24chxorangey: well, with HSPA it'll be phone-like pricing so my guess (and this is a guess) is 5-600 EUR.
16:49.43chxhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_Packet_Access
16:49.44orangeychx: I hope not ; )
16:49.52wiretappedis there any word on if it will have non-voip voice calling?
16:49.56wiretappedeg, actually be a phone?
16:49.59chxI just bought an N810 (I lost my first one)
16:50.07orangeychx: n810 is pretty spectacular
16:50.11chxI am not holding my breath for the N900
16:50.13orangeybut I'm starting to feel the lack of development
16:50.17wiretappedstill hasn't obtained a new n810 battery yet :(
16:50.24orangeyit's actually my main phone
16:50.26orangeyusing SIP
16:50.40orangeyI would kill to have the SIP be full duplex, for example
16:50.49orangeyor to be able to use the video with anybody else
16:51.01orangeymaybe mer fixes that
16:51.33lcuk2 questions, full duplex?  you mean you currently use your phone like a CB radio? *OVER*
16:51.50orangeylcuk: almost
16:51.50lcukand how do you speak into it and use it like a phone
16:51.56chxi guess BT headset.
16:51.57orangeylcuk: the other person cuts out if we talk simultaneously
16:52.04orangeybt headset would do what?
16:52.52lcukthat sounds a bit odd then, are people ok with you, or do they moan you keeping missing what the other said?  *OVER*
16:53.18orangeywell, I generally talk to very understanding people
16:53.24orangeybut people who don't know me are very irritated
16:53.38orangeyit's not a HUGE deal
16:53.44orangeybut very irritating
16:54.16lcukorangey_friend:  ring-ring *facepalm*, its orangey again, wish he would get a real phone*   hiya orangey!
16:54.31orangeylcuk: almost : )
16:54.57orangeywould a bt headset fix that problem?
16:55.01lcuki think skype even works properly
16:55.05lcukin phone context
16:55.14orangeyskype with video would be amazing
16:55.42lcukmmmn different argument, but fully agree with you :)
16:56.00orangeyalso, if I could make it so that I could select the ringing device, that would be super convenient for me
16:56.08orangeysince I refuse to be in the house with a bt headset on
16:56.14madhavisnt skype with video available right now
16:56.18madhavi guess it is
16:56.30orangeynot on n810
16:58.01madhavhttp://becherry.be/ how abt this on n810?
16:59.32orangeyis anybody seriously using android on n8x0?
16:59.55lcuki would rather have tamiflu
17:00.09*** join/#maemo bilboed-tp (n=bilboed@221.159.206-77.rev.gaoland.net)
17:03.38orangeytamiflu?
17:03.49orangeyI guess I would rather have that than a lot of things.
17:03.52glasshaha
17:03.54orangeyin fact, almost anything
17:04.02orangeydo you actually mean heiney flu?
17:04.10glassi'd rather have sex than tamiflu right now..
17:04.32qwerty12_N810glass: overrated. use your hand... :P
17:04.46orangeyway to teach a man to fish
17:04.57glassa bit late
17:05.05glassit doesn't make you blind
17:05.15glassthe secret is out
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17:07.22orangeyhmmm
17:07.30orangeyso.. anybody seriously using android on n810?
17:07.43orangeyI think the pain I feel is the lack of speciality software
17:07.43lcukmy phone decided to tell me it was running low on battery
17:07.56orangeygarnetvm was supposed to fix that
17:07.57orangeybut it sucks
17:08.00lcukby flashing its lights and vibrating and making audible warnings
17:08.24lcukorangey, make your own then :)
17:08.46GeneralAntillesAndroid on N810 is a silly dead end.
17:08.46glassthe people using it "seriously" are probably devs
17:09.08bilboed-tps/Android on N810/Android/
17:09.24GeneralAntillesThat too.
17:09.59GeneralAntillesC-series is going to end up being Nokia's Android line.
17:10.56orangeybilboed-tp: why do you say so?
17:11.01RST38bisthat is a novel idea
17:11.16bilboed-tporangey, because it's a pile of closed-source crack ?
17:11.35bilboed-tps/closed-source/non-(L)GPL, reinvented from scratch/
17:11.39GeneralAntillesJava, Google, cellular lockins.
17:11.50orangeybilboed-tp: I guess we're saying "dead end" in the longer term
17:11.54bilboed-tpJava isn't the problem here tbh
17:12.04orangeybecause in the short term, os2008 is a dead end
17:12.13JaffaGeneralAntilles: What Android line?
17:12.19glassandroids problems are purely political, and as such can't be fixed with a patch
17:12.28orangeyglass: this is true
17:12.41orangeyI obviously bought the n810 for the Free part
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17:13.13bilboed-tpif only it was just political... from a technical point of view it's retarded also (basically you can't re-use engineers used to a standard linux stack to work on making an Android phone)
17:13.27GeneralAntillesJaffa, with the way Nokia's flailing around these days, I figure them shipping two direct competitors in their lineup isn't as silly as it sounds. ;)
17:13.33bilboed-tpmaking life insanely hard for phone manufacturers => little chance of getting it adopted
17:13.52orangeyso, let's talk solutions for my n810
17:13.53glassbilboed-tp: the reason why it's retarded is the key, it's political -> can't be fixed with a patch, you'd need to change thoughts or people inside google
17:13.58orangeyMer seems immature
17:14.05orangeyandroid more so
17:14.10GeneralAntillesMer is immature
17:14.10orangeywhat's the solution?
17:14.13bilboed-tpglass, no, you could fork and do your own.... but even then it's shit
17:14.13glassorangey: whats wrong with what it shipped with?
17:14.14*** join/#maemo gentooer (n=asdfsf@pool-72-90-128-71.nwrknj.east.verizon.net)
17:14.36GeneralAntillesBut it still doesn't have a non-beta stack to build from.
17:14.45glassbilboed-tp: sure you could, if you had twenty million or something
17:14.51glassbilboed-tp: to sell the device too
17:14.52GeneralAntillesGive it 3-6 months and get back to me.
17:14.59orangeyglass: 1) SIP support seems not great for me (will this really be fixed by a BT headset?); 2) I can't get a decent IM client any more. seems like pidgin isn't updated any longer
17:15.24orangeyGeneralAntilles: i.e., Mer will be mature in 3-6 mo?
17:15.39glasswhat is mature?
17:15.43GeneralAntillesIt'll likely actually have a final Fremantle release to build from by then.
17:15.48GeneralAntillesDay-to-day usable would be my guess.
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17:16.16chxhrm?
17:16.22chxfremantle on n810?
17:16.26GeneralAntillesNo
17:16.27GeneralAntilles~mer
17:16.28infobotrumour has it, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer
17:16.29chxwasnt there a cpu support issue?
17:16.37chxah
17:16.38chxi c
17:17.02orangeyGeneralAntilles: what are you saying?
17:17.14orangeyGeneralAntilles: are you saying that with freemantle in the wild, mer will be better?
17:17.22GeneralAntilless/freemantle/fremantle/g
17:17.32GeneralAntillesMer is based largely on Fremantle technologies
17:17.54GeneralAntillesIf those technologies are either unreleased or in beta/alpha stages, how "mature" do you think Mer will be?
17:19.11orangeyI didn't know that, actually
17:19.21GeneralAntillesAnyway, in the short term OS2008 is the only really usable OS available.
17:19.29orangeywell, my biggest thing is  SIP client. Is that on Mer yet?
17:19.38GeneralAntillesJust use rtcomm?
17:20.05orangeyGeneralAntilles: I'm talking about prerequisites. I'm getting a bit frustrated with very few things in OS2008
17:20.17orangeybut for me to experiment with Mer (or anything else), that's the ONE thing that has to work.
17:20.56GeneralAntillesAIM works fine in rtcomm in OS2008 for me.
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17:21.46orangeyGeneralAntilles: ICQ certainly doesn't.
17:22.21orangeydo you guys know if it's possible to dual-boot android / mer / os2008?
17:22.40Stskeepsno
17:22.46Stskeepskexec is broken sos
17:22.48Stskeeps-s
17:22.50wiretappedwishes there was a way to do OTR with rtcomm
17:23.09orangeywiretapped: a bit paranoid, are we? : )
17:23.32wiretappedit should be on by default
17:23.39orangeyyou are correct
17:23.51wiretappedi use open wifi networks that i know are sniffed
17:23.52orangeymaybe I'll run another pet peeve by you guys.. what about a good calendar client?
17:24.12orangeyI've used all of them except for KO/PI (which I think would work, but I can't get running)
17:26.29RST38bisseqretary.
17:27.58RST38bisnews! nokia also came up with xseries now
17:28.15Stskeepsx1000
17:28.25orangeyi want to say that my beefs with maemo are really, really minor. I've never been so happy with a PDA-like thing as the n810
17:28.27orangeyit's amazing
17:28.33orangeyand has really made my life better in so many ways
17:30.55Macerhm
17:34.14Stskeepsorangey: addictive stuff
17:34.14orangeyStskeeps: which?
17:34.23Stskeepstablets
17:34.30orangeyStskeeps: it's not addictive bad.
17:34.53orangeyit's that I had been hobbling through in the palm/WM wasteland
17:35.05orangeyand then this thing came along that was fresh air.
17:35.08orangeywith linux, no less!
17:35.35orangeythe field is a bit different now, with the iphone, android, and palm pre
17:35.47orangeybut it's still grim for people who like to hack
17:36.01glassgrim?
17:36.10orangeyRST38bis: Seqretary is perfect
17:36.21glassyou know how many even if illegally hackable devices there were 5 years ago?
17:36.23RST38bisyou are welcome.
17:36.40orangeyglass: yeah, playing around on the iphone, android and palm pre is tough as compared to maemo
17:36.40RST38bisglass: ah, lots
17:36.53glassRST38bis: for available for free for anyone..
17:37.01RST38bispretty much anything with buttons
17:37.01glasspractically free
17:37.10glassRST38bis: fresh stuff
17:37.12orangeysorry, what's the point?
17:37.20RST38bisis iphone or nit free?
17:37.29glassRST38bis: free compared to newton
17:37.35RST38bishmm
17:37.57glassorangey: that it's not GRIM! :D
17:38.02RST38bisthe point is that one can alwys find something to hack
17:38.18glassorangey: in 5 years we'll have lots and lots of cool cheap phones etc
17:38.23GeneralAntillesglass, different levels of "hack", perhaps.
17:38.29orangeysure, you can always find something to hack. but are you saying hacking on WM is equivalent to doing it on the n810?
17:38.45RST38bisglass: lhc will get us first
17:38.53RST38bisor the crisis
17:38.56GeneralAntillesWebOS, Android, and iPhone OS all make it difficult for you to do what you want with your devices out of the box.
17:39.00glassorangey: as long as it gets the job done better than what you had previously
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17:39.10orangeyI remember it took years to get my ipaq's wireless to a usable state on the mobile linux distro of the day
17:39.29RST38bisGeneral depends on what you want to do
17:39.45orangeyGeneralAntilles: Agreed. but that was true of palmOS and WM. The difference is now at least there's a modicum of choice
17:39.51glassGeneralAntilles: inbetween servers are easy to hack together
17:39.52GeneralAntillesI'd much rather have a device which doesn't require me to play silly cat and mouse games with the manufacturer or wait on updates to do what I want with.
17:40.06glassGeneralAntilles: and again, computers are virtual/free compared to what they used to be
17:40.08orangeyGeneralAntilles: exactly
17:40.12GeneralAntillesOf course, RST38bis, but they're all much more locked down than Maemo.
17:40.41GeneralAntillesglass, sure, but that doesn't make the pill any more pleasant to swallow. ;)
17:40.53GeneralAntillesI used a Newton very happily for many years
17:40.53orangeyRST38bis: do you know off-hand where the .ics file is kept for seqretary?
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17:41.22GeneralAntillesbut that's not that platform experience I want now, nor is the Wii-style Homebrew experience you get with WebOS, Android and iPhone OS.
17:41.25glassGeneralAntilles: i would've too if i could have ever afforded one, heard of one
17:41.31orangeydamn! can Seqretary sync with anything?
17:41.39GeneralAntillesglass, eBay, 2000, $200.
17:41.43glassGeneralAntilles: back then
17:41.45glassGeneralAntilles: not now :D
17:41.51GeneralAntillesYear 2000.
17:42.00glassi had a 3110 then
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17:42.05GeneralAntillesI used a Newton 2100 2000-2004.
17:42.05glassor benefon io
17:42.11glassbenefon io probably, my first phone ever
17:42.20glassi turned 18 then
17:42.30glasswhich is when i got my first phone
17:42.38glassif the car broke down or shit like that
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17:48.04RST38bisGeneral: we do not yet  know how maemo will change... ;(
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18:01.05Macerdamn sorry ass pch
18:01.09Maceris slow as hell :)
18:02.30orangeyalright, off guys
18:02.32orangeysee you later
18:09.44chxthere are some great devices but high resolution screen with a keyboard and a proper OS (aka not WinMo) that's only the N810.
18:10.40JaffaOr Oqo, or ...
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18:18.19Luke-Jrslonopotamus: …
18:18.30slonopotamusLuke-Jr, !
18:19.23slonopotamusLuke-Jr, your CAL thingie has struct for storing CAL entry header. how you figuured it out?
18:19.26Luke-Jrslonopotamus: BME may contain CAL code. As a result, my CAL investigations have stopped.
18:19.40Luke-JrI can relay only what I learned before reading BME code
18:20.16Luke-Jrslonopotamus: I figured it out from hexdumping the CAL data
18:20.23Luke-Jrnothing more
18:20.45Luke-JrI suspect the unknown[8] may be checksum of some kind
18:21.33Luke-Jryeah, Stskeeps sent me some data with a better struct
18:21.41Luke-Jrafter the length, it has data and header crcs
18:23.46slonopotamusLuke-Jr, remember, stskeeps sent you libcal stuff he got from gdb? can you pastebin it somewhere?
18:24.43Luke-Jrhttp://pastebin.ca/1500323
18:25.07slonopotamusgracias
18:26.27ideamonkcan one setup maemo development environment on amd64 ?
18:28.05slonopotamusideamonk, yep
18:28.49ideamonkslonopotamus: im running ubuntu amd64, where can i read more on how to setup the dev env on it ?
18:29.03ideamonkslonopotamus: i get this as of now - E: Currently Scratcbox can only run in 32 bit i386 architecture.
18:29.15Jaffaideamonk: setarch i386 ./installer.sh
18:29.22ideamonkslonopotamus: while trying to setup the scratch box
18:29.31ideamonkJaffa: trying that out ...
18:29.41Jaffais working on a (relatively) lightweight cross-platform, predictable and easy-to-use dev env.
18:29.44JaffaBut it's not ready yet
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18:30.43slonopotamusJaffa, qemu binfmt chroot is everything that normal dev should want.
18:31.11ideamonkhmm seems like http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/maemo4-sdk/main/ doesn't have amd64 packages but the installer tries to fetch them
18:31.29ideamonkW: Failed to fetch http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/maemo4-sdk/main/binary-amd64/Packages  404 Not Found
18:32.06ideamonkthanks anyways
18:32.41slonopotamusStskeeps, http://pastebin.ca/1500323 can you give it to me under gpl-3 license? :)
18:33.16Jaffaslonopotamus: Except speed ;-)
18:33.20Stskeepsslonopotamus: erm.. hmm :P
18:33.27Jaffaideamonk: There's a -F option on the installer script (IIRC) to force the arch
18:35.07Luke-Jrslonopotamus: AFAIK that's not Stskeeps copyrighted
18:35.25Stskeepssome may ponder what license gdb output is, heh
18:35.47Luke-Jrerr
18:35.50ds39
18:35.59Luke-Jrif that literally came from gdb, that means it's debugging symbols
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18:36.11Luke-Jrand arguably libcal code
18:36.15Luke-Jrthus, Nokia owned
18:36.42qwerty12_N810And you just pastebinned it...
18:37.04Luke-Jrglares at Stskeeps for distributing Nokia code :þ
18:37.29Luke-Jrhmm
18:37.35Luke-Jrcan we argue it's too simple to be copyrighted?
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18:39.06slonopotamus_damnit
18:39.56slonopotamus_how do i attach gdb to running proccess without suspending it? :D
18:40.29Stskeepsdon't
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18:40.51Luke-Jr……
18:40.54Luke-Jrwhat would be the point?
18:41.26slonopotamusi want to read 'info types' output without getting rebooted by wd :D
18:42.13slonopotamusoh. --eval --batch should do the thing
18:42.28Luke-Jrslonopotamus: #Mer
18:45.18Luke-Jrslonopotamus: also, note gdb won't let you run any commands while a process is running
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19:01.16RST38hhates Hates HATES VAX
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19:05.25Stskeepswoo, 1000 thanks :P
19:08.19RST38hyou ancient, retarded, microcode controlled, memory faulting piece of shite...
19:08.31Stskeepswhy are you doing VAX again? :P
19:09.03RST38hyou and your exceptions
19:09.20RST38hSts: money.
19:09.29Stskeepsah, yes
19:12.17RST38hoh I seem to know what is wrong
19:15.28RST38hAnd the idiot box is showing Babylon5 marathon tonight, hehe
19:16.18lbtwhat? Bab5
19:16.22lbtooh
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19:35.25RST38hlbt: Better, they are showing the-best-of episodes
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19:35.48RST38hAnd even better, they apparently used wiki or something to figure out what best episodes are
19:36.02RST38hAt least these do appear to be the best ones :)
19:44.16Macerhm
19:44.20Macerllink for opensolaris
19:44.22Macerwonder how well it works
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21:26.13Luke-Jrwonders why Fn doesn't work in console mode, despite his getting it on dumpkeys properly
21:35.09chxdumpkeys?
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22:14.04Luke-Jrchx: yes, dumpkeys
22:14.18chxwhat's that?
22:14.49qwerty12_N810Luke-Jr: don't linux-omap have a fix for that in the kernel?
22:15.12Luke-Jrqwerty12_N810: 2.6.30-rc8 didn't
22:15.23Luke-Jrcurrent Linux-OMAP doesn't have keyboard support for N810 at all
22:15.29Luke-Jrchx: run it and see
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22:16.14qwerty12_N810Luke-Jr: Oh. I found some patch for Fn in console. Took it and butchered it to run in 2.6.21. Fn in console worked, Fn in Maemo didn't...
22:19.00Luke-Jrqwerty12_N810: I don't care much for hacks
22:19.18Luke-Jror was it an actual bugfix?
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22:19.50qwerty12_N810I believe it was meant to be so
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23:10.52Luke-Jrqwerty12_N810: link?
23:11.09Luke-Jrqwerty12_N810: do note this bug is NOT N8x0-specific, and occurs on some x86 platforms too
23:13.37qwerty12_N810Luke-Jr: took it from here: http://muru.com/linux/n8x0/n8x0-2008-08-14.tar.gz (may have been updated/removed/superseded - I dunno)
23:14.35Luke-Jrqwerty12_N810: that is a hack and rather unrelated
23:15.13qwerty12_N810Unrelated? It gets you Fn in console. *shrug*
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