IRC log for #maemo on 20090706

00:07.24*** join/#maemo AI6PG (n=pgrace@netblock-68-183-38-110.dslextreme.com)
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00:09.51stelleghey guys, I'm working on getting 2.6.29 working on n770
00:09.56stellegI finally got video working
00:10.04stellegbut bme is dying
00:10.05man_in_shackawesome
00:10.08*** join/#maemo tonikitoo (n=tonikito@201-75-22-24-ma.cpe.vivax.com.br)
00:10.29stellegI'm getting the following on serial output:
00:10.30stellegStarting DSME... done.
00:10.31stellegWait for DSME socket to appear
00:10.31stellegdsme: reading bootreason from /proc/bootreason
00:10.31stellegdsme: bootreason was other than mbus, let's wait for the battery type
00:10.31stellegreceived state:9
00:10.31stellegcal_read_block(bme): size zero, block not found?
00:10.33stellegDSME: process '/usr/bin/bme' with pid 444 exited with return value: 1
00:10.35stellegDSME: '/usr/bin/bme' exited
00:10.37stelleg<PROTECTED>
00:10.39stellegThe received message wasn't state change indication
00:10.41stellegThe received message wasn't state change indication
00:10.43stellegreceived state:6
00:10.45stellegThe system is going down NOW !!
00:10.47stellegSending SIGTERM to all processes.
00:10.49stellegTerminated
00:10.51stellegSending SIGKILL to all processes.
00:10.53stellegKilled
00:11.01man_in_shackstelleg, you really didn't need to paste all that
00:11.06stellegsorry
00:11.27stellegany ideas though?
00:11.28*** join/#maemo pdz (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa)
00:11.57stellegi read that the cal_read_block failing can be caused by corrupted cal, which can be fixed by reflashing initfs
00:14.04man_in_shackwouldn't you need a new initfs to go with your new kernel?
00:17.03stellegah I'll look into that
00:17.06stellegthanks
00:17.18man_in_shacknp
00:17.19stellegstill a bit new to this kernel hacking business
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01:26.28xnt14~seen b-man16
01:26.29infobotb-man16 <n=b-man16@cpe-98-30-195-117.woh.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 11h 16m 33s ago, saying: ':P'.
01:26.43xnt14argh! :P
01:26.53xnt14ah well
01:27.43xnt14is bored
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01:50.33Macerdamn i really want a touchbook
01:50.38Macerthat thing looks awesome
01:51.00Macerwish it was a little quicker though but i suppose 600MHz isn't too bad
01:51.07Macerfast enough to run openoffice
01:51.16Macerdifferent arch too so maybe the arch would go a little faster
01:53.21ShadowJKabout twice as fast
01:53.27ShadowJKper MHz
01:53.45ShadowJKbest case
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03:38.33rizetDoes anyone know of any SSH Tunnel Manager for Maemo?
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05:25.06freenoseis there aircrack for maemo?
05:25.57johnxyes and no
05:26.57johnxthe wifi driver doesn't support packet injection
05:28.49freenosesad
05:28.55johnxeh
05:29.12johnxthere's source for a newer version of the driver if someone cared enough to make it work
05:29.48freenosesource from nokia?
05:29.57johnxyes actually
05:30.23johnxthe newer driver isn't fully working, and I don't think it has an injection support
05:30.24freenosethe actual one is propietary?
05:30.39johnxbut if the hardware is capable, then the source is there
05:30.45johnxbut that's a lot of "if" :)
05:30.58johnxthe one used on the tablet is partially proprietary
05:33.16freenosewonders why nokia puts propietary stuff on linux tablet
05:33.36johnxcost
05:34.17johnxthey've been going a long way to making up for it
05:34.36*** join/#maemo Guest4237_245 (i=DJ-FunkM@s15321356.onlinehome-server.info)
05:34.42Guest4237_245<PROTECTED>
05:34.53Guest4237_245any clue? how to resolve?
05:35.04freenosearen't there opensource wifi chipses?
05:35.11johnxfreenose, yes
05:35.34johnxGuest4237_245, does /tmp/.X2-lock exist? who is it owned by?
05:35.59freenosewhy they don't use it? license?
05:36.03johnxcost
05:36.14Guest4237_245i dont know if he exist 1 minute
05:36.49AStormcost and energy efficiency
05:37.04johnxright, that too
05:37.19AStormthe prism54 on SPI with conexant firmware is a very nice design
05:37.39Guest4237_245no johnx, no .X2-lock in /temp
05:37.47RST38hTemperature: 8oC, RealFeel: 5oC
05:37.47Guest4237_245:(
05:37.51AStorm(or maybe it's not prism54, just something similar)
05:37.58RST38hWell, at least it is positive...
05:39.18johnxGuest4237_245, really? keep in mind it's a hidden file so it won't show up with a normal ls or in a GUI file manger. test if /tmp is writable by typing "touch /tmp/foo"
05:39.52RST38hMoo, johnx, AStorm
05:39.57johnxm00f RST38h
05:40.21johnxRST38h, soooo, is that "realfeel" temperature from windchill or icestorms or what?
05:40.35RST38hjohnx: It is from AccuWeather, probably windchill
05:40.48johnxheh. that's a pretty good breeze then
05:41.10RST38hIt also looks like the start of a nuclear winter
05:41.19johnxah, fun stuff
05:41.31johnxdoes that mean a decrease in the pollen count?
05:41.39RST38hOh yess
05:41.52johnxwoo! bring on the bombs!
05:42.01Guest4237_245what output its suppose give it
05:42.02RST38hAt least judging from the fact that I feel almost ok
05:42.04Guest4237_245i have nothing
05:42.06Guest4237_245its look yes
05:42.30johnxit's supposed to create a file called foo in /tmp
05:42.59johnxso, now try touch /tmp/.X2-lock
05:43.22johnxalso, if you tried running Xephyr as a different user and it didn't properly exit (ie, it crashed) it might have left a stale lock file
05:43.35johnxls -l /tmp/.X2-lock
05:43.37johnxto check :)
05:44.08Guest4237_245permission denied
05:44.20johnxfor which command?
05:44.34Guest4237_245<PROTECTED>
05:44.51johnxalright, it does exist then. ls -l /tmp/.X2-lock
05:45.17RST38hOk, off to work.
05:45.23Guest4237_245-r--r--r-- 1 root root 11 2009-07-06 01:27 /tmp/.X2-lock
05:45.36johnxhave fun RST38h :)
05:45.47johnxGuest4237_245, so delete it as root
05:45.48Guest4237_245i need reload term for launch again Xephir after that?
05:46.01Guest4237_245...
05:46.17johnxnah, just type sudo rm /tmp/.X2-lock
05:46.20johnxthen run Xephy
05:46.21johnxr
05:47.31Guest4237_245lol ok
05:47.39Guest4237_245fatal error 1 fix
05:47.42Guest4237_245TX a lot
05:47.47Guest4237_245but here 2
05:47.48Guest4237_245lol
05:47.51Guest4237_245Fatal server error: Cannot establish any listening sockets - Make sure an X server isn't already running
05:48.23johnxare you running Xephyr as root right now?
05:48.35slonopotamuswoo
05:48.35johnxdid you run it twice?
05:48.41slonopotamusjohnx, hello
05:48.48johnxmorning slonopotamus
05:48.55Guest4237_245no i try in new terminal
05:48.59Guest4237_245not root
05:49.13Guest4237_245here
05:49.14slonopotamusjohnx, how on earth you compiled qemu statically? it dies during linking
05:49.16johnxps auxc | grep Xephyr
05:49.16Guest4237_245labaudio@ubuntu:~$ Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac -extension Composite _XSERVTransSocketUNIXCreateListener: ...SocketCreateListener() failed _XSERVTransMakeAllCOTSServerListeners: server already running  Fatal server error: Cannot establish any listening sockets - Make sure an X server isn't already running
05:49.39johnxGuest4237_245, for more than 4 lines of pasting, try and use pastebin
05:49.41johnx~pastebin
05:49.41infobot[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste
05:49.59slonopotamusthat was 1 line :P
05:50.01johnxinfobot, you should have used pastebin for that one
05:50.17slonopotamushaha)
05:50.21johnxslonopotamus, I had nothing but pain trying to do that. try getting it from someone else :)
05:50.33Guest4237_245~pastebin Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac -extension Composite _XSERVTransSocketUNIXCreateListener: ...SocketCreateListener() failed _XSERVTransMakeAllCOTSServerListeners: server already running  Fatal server error: Cannot establish any listening sockets - Make sure an X server isn't already running
05:50.37Guest4237_245oups
05:50.37Guest4237_245ok
05:51.02slonopotamusjohnx, but your page says you did it somehow :)
05:51.22johnxGuest4237_245, anyways, I would run ps auxc | grep Xephyr and see if it has any running Xephyr
05:51.31johnxor try :3 instead of :2 on the command line
05:51.41johnxslonopotamus, uhm...which page? O_o;
05:51.45Guest4237_245http://pastebin.ca/1485367
05:51.48Guest4237_245ok
05:52.17Guest4237_245ps auxc | grep Xephyr give me nothing
05:52.58johnxwell, then try switching :2 for :3 I guess
05:53.08slonopotamusjohnx, http://goron.de/~johns/n810/ copy ebuild, edit, update manifest and build qemu.
05:53.24johnxjohns != johnx
05:53.25johnx:)
05:53.35slonopotamus...
05:53.36johnxjohnb = johnx
05:54.03johnxalso, johnx = johnxx (sometimes)
05:54.08slonopotamushaven't awoken completely
05:54.39johnxlet me check how obs does it
05:54.48Guest4237_245: 3 give me http://pastebin.com/m13a79d74
05:55.10johnxwow. well that's different
05:55.17johnxwhich linux distribution is this?
05:55.23slonopotamusi need johnsq, not johnx
05:55.27Guest4237_245ubu last one
05:55.51slonopotamuscouldn't you choose a bit more diferent nicknames? :)
05:56.28johnxheh, says you. know how many slonopotamuses I see on a daily basis? there's like 3 guys named that in my office! :P
05:56.31Guest4237_245nick labaudio
05:57.28labaudiomaybe just uninstall and re install xephir
05:57.44johnxI bet that won't make a difference
05:57.51johnxsee if it runs without the -composite
05:58.16labaudiono
05:58.16johnxso remove "-extension Composite"
05:58.16labaudioi try before
05:58.16labaudiothat so sick
05:58.17labaudioevery morning that run
05:58.26labaudiobut since i install last sdk
05:58.32labaudionothing
05:58.53johnxI assume you mean the beta sdk
05:59.00johnxso...keep in mind, it's a beta sdk
05:59.02labaudiono
05:59.09labaudiodiablo
05:59.23johnxanyways, Xephyr isn't part of the sdk
05:59.32johnxand it runs here with exactly the same command line
05:59.45johnxI would say make sure you install all the latest updates and reboot if they ask you too
06:00.10*** part/#maemo ptman (i=ptman@puro.fixme.fi)
06:00.42labaudioi try something from other and comeback   in few
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06:03.55Maceram watching frost nixon
06:03.59Macerpretty good
06:04.13johnxam playing with my wii :)
06:04.16doc|homeit is good
06:04.37Macerdoc|home: never saw it
06:04.37*** join/#maemo labaudio_852 (i=DJ-FunkM@s15321356.onlinehome-server.info)
06:04.45labaudio_852no
06:05.04Maceralmost makes you feel bad for nixon
06:05.45johnxlabaudio_852, no what?
06:05.59Macerjohnx: mushroom men is ok
06:06.11Maceryou should try that out
06:06.16johnxright now I'm playing linux :D
06:06.23Macerlol
06:06.28Maceryou got a usb nic
06:06.32Macer?
06:06.46johnxyup yup
06:07.02johnxa cheapie too. cost me 300JPY used a while ago
06:07.09johnxjust needed a kernel module compiled for it
06:07.30Macerah
06:07.37Macerhow is it?
06:08.04johnxseems to work pretty well, I'm trying to get X up in the latest ubuntu with the wiimote working
06:08.23johnxbut first there's a new kernel with support for 11MB more RAM! woo!
06:08.35Macerwoah!
06:08.38Macerheh
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06:15.49labaudioso is look when i remove a x16 from 800x480x16   all work but
06:16.17labaudioCould not init font path element /usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic, removing from list! unrecognised device identifier! (EE) config/hal: NewInputDeviceRequest failed
06:16.48johnxthat's normal
06:17.36labaudioi try some more like 1024x780 and all work too
06:20.55labaudiobut now iam still here
06:21.07johnxyes, you are
06:24.51labaudiohere my last log
06:24.53labaudiohttp://pastebin.ca/1485390
06:27.02johnxget rid of the \ and the return
06:27.30johnxdidn't you say it was working before?
06:27.36labaudioes
06:27.40labaudio*Y
06:28.08labaudioall work good before
06:28.56johnxjust 15 minutes ago you said that it ran
06:29.26labaudiothe xserver windows appears
06:29.31labaudiobut still error
06:29.40johnxthat "error" is normal
06:29.43johnxI get it here too
06:29.50johnxjust ignore it
06:29.55labaudiook so in fact all works
06:30.01johnxyes
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06:30.34labaudiobut what is exactly -extension finaly
06:30.45labaudiocause whith -extension its dont work
06:30.49labaudiobut its suppose to be
06:31.25johnxwhich guide did you read that says to use "-extension Composite"?
06:33.24labaudiohttp://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node4.html#SECTION00444000000000000000
06:34.09johnxwell, that answers your question about what "-extension Composite" does :)
06:35.30*** join/#maemo trickie (n=trickie@94.100.112.225)
06:35.46labaudioits disable composite
06:35.50labaudiowow that mean a lot lol
06:36.09labaudiobut in fact whit -extension   xwindows dont open
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06:36.25labaudiowhitout not too
06:36.40johnxout of curiosity, what is your native language?
06:36.42labaudiowhitout -ac and -extension its work
06:36.47Luke-Jrmy native language is C
06:36.49Luke-Jrkthx
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06:37.00labaudiofor me its french
06:37.12DracieMarshian
06:38.41johnxthe Composite extension provides support for partial transparency and stuff like that
06:41.56labaudiook
06:43.01labaudioevery go
06:43.16labaudioi shaft all this by bypassing just -ac
06:43.26labaudiocuriosly all work properly
06:43.33labaudiofinaly
06:44.02johnxjust a note: "shaft" might not mean what you think it means :)
06:44.05labaudioTx for tweaking tip johnx
06:44.11labaudioi know
06:44.15johnxsure, good luck :)
06:44.21labaudiobut iam french so i use play words
06:44.22labaudioahahah
06:44.56johnxright then
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07:03.48ptmanhave you seen this yet: http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2009/jul/06/nokia-mobile-internet-phones
07:04.23johnxI have this funny feeling that someone got their signals crossed
07:05.35*** join/#maemo Jalen64 (n=Jalen@h69-129-215-175.mntimn.dsl.dynamic.tds.net)
07:06.37RST38hprobably bullshit
07:07.15RST38hbut who knows...
07:07.23johnxyeah, unless android will be running qt by that point
07:07.41RST38hno, no, there is a different scenario
07:07.52johnxnokia are bloody idiots?
07:07.59RST38hthey may want to replace s40 with android
07:08.26johnxseems kind of heavyweight for that application doesn't it?
07:09.10johnxbut what I'm thinking is a game of "telephone" where someone says "new linux phone by xx" "oh, you mean linux, like android?" "yeah"
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07:09.52adeusthey don't want to replace s40:s with anything
07:10.05adeusthey're cheap to make and sell like crazy
07:11.29qwerty12_N810People would be pissed if they found out that their android phone can only install J2ME games :p
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07:12.29johnxI thought that was all android could run anyways? :>
07:13.09qwerty12_N810hehe
07:14.40johnxI guess you can code part of your j2me game in C now, so it's like the palm "solution" to optimizing code for ARM vs m68k
07:15.52ptmanthere was just a native sdk release for android
07:16.06RST38hjohnx: Android isn't very heavyweight, it may be a good replacement for S40
07:16.17ptmanso no need to code for dalvik (which is closer to j2se than j2me)
07:16.35johnxRST38h, it's heavy enough to need 400MHz and 128MB of RAM unless I'm missing something
07:16.46RST38hptman: Their native loophole is pretty limited
07:16.52johnxptman, AFAIK, you can't call out to system APIs from C
07:16.56RST38hAnd they only implemented it under pressure from developers
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07:17.03RST38hjohnx: Oh
07:17.24ptmanhmm... might be, I haven't looked closely
07:17.31johnxI skimmed the article
07:17.37RST38hInitially, Google even deleted messages asking for native model from its forums
07:18.01johnxptman, they want to keep people in davlik, but let them write in C for performance critical areas
07:18.29johnxRST38h, I can almost understand that though. they didn't need 100 duplicate threads asking that when they were no where near the point where they could do it
07:20.10RST38hjohnx: They could do it from the very beginning
07:20.25RST38hjohnx: Only took a few weeks for somebody to break through and compile hello world app
07:20.47RST38hjohnx: So it looks more like they THOUGHT they could avoid it
07:20.54johnxheh
07:21.09RST38hA typical fallacy for the Java guys
07:21.11johnxnah, I assume it was more of a, "we can't get around do doing this the way we want right now"
07:21.21johnx"so we'll say you don't need it"
07:21.25johnxsame as the iPhone 1.0
07:21.28RST38hjohnx: Believe me, it is really trivial
07:21.39RST38hjohnx: Does not require much time to make
07:21.47johnxbut they implemented it in a different way.
07:21.59RST38hJust like every other JVM
07:22.01johnxthe way they do it now sandboxes C code
07:22.17RST38hjohnx: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Native_Interface
07:22.55RST38hAny Unix sandboxes C code, try writing outside of your address space or accessing files you are not supposed to access
07:23.21johnxbut what if you try sitting and spinning with 100% CPU time? or if you try to soak up as much RAM as possible?
07:23.30johnxpresumably they're trying to avoid apps going crazy like that
07:23.45RST38hjohnx: You will not be able to allocate more ram than ulimit allows
07:24.22RST38hjohnx: As to CPU time use, it depends on the scheduling policy. A decent Unix (like FreeBSD) will just move your app to lowerpriority
07:24.52johnxbut what if priority #1 is the amorphous policy of "preserving battery life"
07:25.09johnxanyways I'm curious what they *did* do differently that took them so much time :)
07:25.18RST38hjohnx: I am pretty sure you can still cheat Android and use 100% CPU resources. Good ways to try would be making a lot of system calls (see Maemo Flash) or making calls that incur heavy CPU use (X11 font rendering)
07:25.43RST38hjohnx: What took them so much time is their dogma.
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07:27.59johnxwonder if that ubuntu guy had any more luck with davlik under x11
07:28.28aquatixmorning all
07:28.34johnxmornin' aquatix
07:30.06johnxmmmm...cleanly applying patches :)
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07:59.58liriany chance for thunderbird/sunbird on the n810 platform?
08:00.18johnxthose are pretty heavy apps
08:00.33liriI've read it has sync plugins to do all the google apps sync (cal, contacts, etc)
08:00.44qwerty12_N810liri: google "null-pointer thunderbird"
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08:04.54liriqwerty12_N810: I guess it's a dead-end road eh
08:05.53qwerty12_N810Oh, I thought he had uploaded a binary. But speed-wise, I'd probably say yeah :)
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08:29.45qwerty12_N810RST38h: Removed the Fastforward feature in favour of being able to actually send F4 to MGS. And the radio screen comes up now so I'm happy. Thanks :)
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09:00.56RST38hqwerty: That isn't a good way to fix this though
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09:01.41qwerty12_N810RST38h: Indeed, but I didn't even know that the FastForward feature existed before seeing the code, so for me, it works well :)
09:02.17RST38hqwerty: I would rather bind F-keys to [F]+[CHR]+upper row
09:03.00qwerty12_N810That would be useful, I binded the FastForward to the Fn key but I can't go left or right :)
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09:20.10wazdNokia claimed to be working on Android phone for unveiling later this year
09:20.20wazdцрфе еру рудд шы ерфеб тщлшф,(
09:20.22wazdoh
09:20.32wazdwhat the hell is that, Nokia I mena?!
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09:20.38wazdmean*
09:22.07adeusfalse news?
09:22.20wazdI think so too
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09:24.44sarowerHello all, Is there any C++ (maemomm) support or wrapper for home screen applet development?
09:24.48sarowerany body?
09:30.52RST38hThere is none.
09:31.08RST38hwazd: Probably fake
09:31.50wazdRST38h: yep, cause it's making absolutely no goddamn sense
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09:33.00murraycsarower: I'm working on it, but not yet.
09:33.12murraycsarower: And they are called "Desktop Widgets".
09:33.44murraycsarower: libhildondesktopmm is in the maemomm garage, but it's crashy right now.
09:34.13Jaffawonders if they heard "touchscreen" and "Linux" and thought "Android"
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09:34.36sarowermurrayc: oh... Thank you very much for your information
09:35.24sarowermurrayc: do you know when it (libhildondesktopmm) would be available for use?
09:36.43sarowermurrayc: do you have any reference of libhildondesktopmm?
09:38.03RST38hwazd: makes more sense than Nokia branded netbooks though
09:38.14murraycsarower: Possibly within 3 or 4 weeks. It's blocking on something (uninteresting) that I can't mention.
09:38.51murraycsarower: In the meantime it should not be too hard to use the C API: http://www.murrayc.com/blog/permalink/2009/05/11/maemo-5-desktop-widget-example/
09:39.05murraycsarower: You can easily use C and C++ together with Glib::wrap() and gobj().
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09:40.01sarowermurrayc: That means i can use C++ with the C based framework?
09:42.03nomissarower: you should be able to use the C-API within C++. You might need to extern "C" {}  the functions that the framework uses to access your code.
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09:42.27murraycnomis: That's not necessary. GTK+/Hildon code already use that in their headers.
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09:43.47murraycsarower: Yes: http://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs/tutorial/html/ch04.html#sec-basics-gobj-and-wrap
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09:44.21sarowermurrayc: Ok let me check these things
09:44.57nomismurrayc: uhm, IIRC you have to use specific names in your code for the applets, so that the desktop can dlsym the resp. symbol for the applet. That better is not C++-name-mangled...
09:45.32nomisor am I missing something?
09:49.08nomisoh, wait. This probably is in HD_DEFINE_PLUGIN.
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10:12.55sarowermurrayc: Suppose i want to define classes of my own and want to use in the "Desktop Widgets" development framework which is C based!
10:13.02saroweris it possible?
10:14.01sarowerSuppose i want to create object inside "example_init()" method and call it's methods!
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10:18.21murraycsarower: Yes.
10:18.49murraycsarower: It's easy to use C and C++ together. It's entirely normal.
10:19.28sarowermurrayc: How i can implement MVC model in this case? Do you have any sample?
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10:20.35sarowermurrayc: But for the  "Desktop Widgets" application i must use its own C based framework. eight?
10:20.46sarowerright*
10:22.10murraycsarower: Yes, for now. But you can use C++ while doing that.
10:24.38sarowermurrayc: did not understand " But you can use C++ while doing that." point!
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10:39.26wazdVDVsx: ping?)
10:39.39VDVsxwazd, pong
10:39.52wazdVDVsx: mornin' :)
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10:40.19VDVsxg'morning wazd ;)
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11:32.39adeushttp://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSL613838520090706
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11:39.30RST38hadeus: Hehehe
11:39.49RST38hPoor Nokia guys have to deny rubbish daily now =)
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11:40.38ShadowJKRST38h, you know a rumour is false if gartner confirms it
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11:41.38tank-manI hate news stories about rumors and speculations, they always say someone is making those accusations but not specifically who
11:42.15tank-manspeculated by "industry insiders"
11:43.59RST38hShadow: that too
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12:58.55lcukso what have i missed then
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13:05.14aquatix*crickets*
13:06.29lcukaquatix, thinking the same
13:07.22Jaffalcuk: libliq missed out on being the favoured UI framework in Harmattan to Qt...
13:08.11RST38hlcuk: You missed on an Android-running Nokia phone
13:08.16lcukdamn! thats ok though, ill just carry on building it till its everywhere i want it
13:08.29RST38hlcuk: Which is forever.
13:08.44lcuki did get the sketching webservice running though just before i went
13:08.53lcukits one less thing for me to worry about
13:09.07lcukRST38h, :) rome wasnt built in a day
13:09.10VDVsxdon't worry, liqbase will replace Qt in Imantalle :P
13:09.35X-FadeVDVsx: Inverna ;)
13:10.00GAN8001The Android phone is probably true.
13:10.12VDVsxX-Fade, I don't knew the name, just invented that one now :P
13:10.38RST38hGAN: Nokia already denied it, publicly
13:10.40X-Fadeinverna ( in′vərnä ) ( meteorology ) A southeast wind of Lake Maggiore, Italy.
13:10.45GAN800Nokia has decided that dealing with their own distro is just too much damn work.
13:10.51VDVsxGAN800, http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSL613838520090706
13:11.01GAN800and those pesky community people just wont STFU
13:11.17GAN800RST38h, of course they did.
13:11.17lcukRST38h, nokia can deny it publically all they like, all it takes is some hacker with a will to push it onto the next open device (just like they did with 810)
13:11.28GAN800Not denying it would ruin the surprise.
13:11.46lcukwhy a surprise, they have a plan for qt dont they
13:13.11VDVsxodd: "Very sad to see how the cool, upcoming, GTK/Hildon/Clutter-based Maemo Fremantle is being ignored in the talks given by Nokians so far" -> https://twitter.com/juanjosanchez/status/2485848981
13:13.52VDVsxat GCDS of course
13:15.51RST38hGAN: I do not know of any cases when something Nokia openly denied ended up as true
13:16.01finnhi
13:17.21wazdRST38h: don't ruin the Great Conspiracy Theory :)
13:17.25RST38hAnyways, Maemo release strategy looks like complete cluster fuck
13:17.25lcukJaffa, one thing on what you said - nothing stops me from using libliqbase inside a qt app
13:17.33lcukbest of both worlds :)
13:17.43wazd"Aha, they deny that oficcialy, i knew they are hiding something!"
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13:17.46RST38hFirst, they drop support for Diablo prematurely, leaving current users dry
13:18.15RST38hwazd: Nokia never confirmed or denied that nuclear test near Karelian boarder, did it? ;)
13:18.25RST38hs/boarder/border
13:18.31qwerty12_N810RST38h: At least we know why now that there's Fremantle bugs that are WONTFIX
13:18.44lcukRST38h, whats your role inside intel?
13:19.14wazdlcuk: He's the Master of the Universe :)
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13:19.23RST38hThen, they appear to rewrite the whole GTK+ API, killing compatibility with Diablo and main line GTK apps
13:19.29RST38hlcuk: software engineer
13:19.47RST38hlcuk: If you want Moblin guys, they are on the next floor =)
13:20.06RST38hAnd finally, they promise to rewrite the whole platform AGAIN for the Harmattan
13:20.18lcukheh up or down from you
13:20.29wazdRST38h: yep, all those platform frustrations annys me to :(
13:20.43RST38hlcuk: Up, although the difference is mostly topological =)
13:20.45wazdRST38h: annoys
13:20.45_BuBUhi there
13:21.19_BuBUsorry to ask if that had already been asked... but is there any alpha or something for the Maemo QT port ?
13:21.40RST38hwazd: If they actually released something by now, it would be ok
13:21.53RST38hwazd: but right now it all sounds like AmigaOS =)
13:22.43wazdRST38h: I really don't see any sense to develop 3 versions of one OS same time
13:22.46RST38hBuBU: Maemo Qt is in extras-devel, it is beta quality.
13:23.11lbt_BuBU: http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/
13:23.14RST38hwazd: with a proper process, they would be overlapped a little bit
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13:23.27wazdRST38h: first they had Elephanta, Fremantle and Harmattan
13:23.47RST38hwazd: With developers adding evolutionary features to Diablo while fixing bugs and making updates every month or two
13:23.58VDVsx~maemo-qt
13:23.59infobotrumour has it, maemo-qt is http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt
13:23.59RST38hwazd: And a couple of developers working exclusively on QT
13:24.10GAN800Maemo's having an identity crisis.
13:24.18wazdRST38h: then they dropped Elephanta and joined Fremantle
13:24.58wazdRST38h: and now they tell that Harmattan will be different from fremantle
13:25.09RST38hwazd: which isn't surprising
13:25.21wazdRST38h: Why not just make Fremantle with whole team?)
13:25.29wazdRST38h: I mean Harmattan
13:25.38lcukthey bought a whole team
13:25.43RST38hwazd: I guess this is what they will do once N900 is released.
13:25.56RST38hwazd: So, do not expect updates or bug fixes to Fremantle :)
13:27.31VDVsxjust as side note, the current GTK+/hildon was done mostly by contractors, so they probably have already a good part of the team working on QT
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13:30.42tbfRST38h: nokia did bug fix releases for diablo when fremantle was in the queue already
13:31.00tbfRST38h: so why shouldn't they do bugfixes for Fremantle?
13:31.12tbfRST38h: they also have an image to loose
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13:31.22RST38htbf: do they still? =)
13:33.09timeless_mbphey
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13:33.19tbfRST38h: don't think they are maintaining diablo anymore, but they deliverd at least two major updates
13:33.20timeless_mbpif i install openssh on diablo, does it not automatically start sshd?
13:33.32aquatixtimeless_mbp: it should
13:33.34tbfRST38h: and the last one was done when fremantle was at full steam already
13:33.44timeless_mbpaquatix: it doesn't seem like it did
13:33.45qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: sshd is started after install and upon every boot
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13:34.04aquatixtimeless_mbp: you installed the sshd i presume?
13:34.07tbfRST38h: there for i'd also expect few update releases for fremantle
13:34.07RST38htbf: Yes, but how long ago has it been?
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13:34.24timeless_mbpi installed "openssh"
13:34.40aquatixthat should install -client and -server i think
13:34.42timeless_mbpand have "openssh-client", "openssh-common", "openssh-server" as well as the thing i installed ("openssh")
13:34.44aquatixso sshd
13:34.58aquatixthen it should have started
13:35.08RST38htbf: Now, if Fremantle were out, it would be ok to claim that they are supporting Fremantle rather than older Diablo
13:35.14aquatixtry ssh'ing localhost? :)
13:35.19timeless_mbpdoesn't work
13:35.22timeless_mbpand ps doesn't list it
13:35.24RST38htbf: But, as things are, they are not supporting users at all.
13:35.25aquatixhm
13:35.38RST38htbf: Really, REALLY bad idea.
13:36.07qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: tried "/etc/init.d/ssh start"?
13:36.12timeless_mbpas what?
13:36.16timeless_mbpi'm kinda not root
13:36.16RST38htbf: Which could be rectified by periodic updates to Diablo backend packages (like the same camel for example)
13:36.26tbfRST38h: afaik last update for diablo was in december 2008
13:36.26timeless_mbphence trying to install ssh
13:36.39qwerty12_N810There's other ways to get root, *shrug*
13:36.44RST38htbf: This is 6-7 months ago.
13:36.47timeless_mbpgive me one that'll work :)
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13:37.28RST38htbf: Also, look how many bugs to backend packages are marked as "fixed in fremantle" - all these should really be fixed in diablo if you care about your customers.
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13:38.38RST38htbf: Frontend stuff like GTK+ is ok to ignore, but not the backend (kernel, daemons, drivers, etc)
13:39.06tbfRST38h: combine that last diablo release date with Fremantle SDK release dates and the rumor google gives you, and make your conclusions about the original schedule ;-)
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13:39.17timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: well? :(
13:39.50qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: I've used rootsh and sudser fine.
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13:41.30timeless_mbpok, rootsh worked, thanks
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13:45.30finncan the "unable to connect. no file system available" be solved without formating the SD card (and losing all the pictures on it)
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14:15.51till-finn maybe you can use an memory card recovery tool
14:16.05Stskeepsfinally home \o/
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14:25.16wazdStskeeps: wb :)
14:25.28Stskeepsta!
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14:32.29finntill-: the n810 is my only device which has a card reader (USB), since my USB port is broken on the laptop
14:32.53RST38htbf: I know with 99% confidence that the Fremantle schedule slipped at least once and most likely twice
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15:36.10Macerhm
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15:36.24Macerstill very interested in this touchbook
15:36.37Macerwonder what type of OS it will be running
15:36.46Macerxfce w/compiz it seems
15:37.07Stskeepsany linux
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15:43.53MacerStskeeps: but they say rhey have
15:44.07Maceran "innovative 3d operating system"
15:44.09Macer:)
15:44.29Maceropensolaris is working on something that runs on arm
15:44.34Macerbbl
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16:02.13supermazaquatix: my little tool for flashing the LED when new calls are on the answering machine is working ;)
16:02.55supermazI now need to add the "make yourself a daemon" code, the next thing would be to implement a desktop applet to show the number on the desktop!
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16:23.55jophish.
16:24.55Stskeeps..
16:25.15baraujo...?
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16:31.32GAN800??? ???? ??? ? ????
16:32.06pupniki want to see who is at the door on my n810
16:33.33inzdo you use your tablet as a welcome-rug?
16:33.43VDVsxbuy a wlan camera :)
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16:34.47inzor buy another n810 and set up some kind of autoanswer-mechanism
16:35.12Mekapparently there aren't really any n810 available for sale anymore...
16:35.21inzn800 would be easier, if the camera is popped out, video is started automagically
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16:36.24VDVsxMek, amazon still have in stock: http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-N810-Portable-Internet-Tablet/dp/B000Y4AH3C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1246898156&sr=8-1
16:36.40VDVsxS/have/has
16:36.57Mekhmm, okay; I just heard some nokian complaining that he couldn't even get a new one internally anymore after his old one broke
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16:42.28VDVsxMek, well, the nokians should be able to get a shiny n9xx ,instead of a old school device, like the n810 :P
16:42.47Mek:)
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16:44.30CorsacI did bought mine from expansys
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17:01.30Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: prod
17:02.41qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: meep
17:03.05Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: happen to know if toggles has a uploaded src package of his statusbar-applet-settings thing?
17:03.06*** join/#maemo wjs_ltop (n=wsuethol@204.238.52.86)
17:03.15Stskeepsbesides his git
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17:04.09qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: no idea, I've told him how to generate it so I guess he's just waiting for a nod
17:04.19Stskeepsk
17:04.30Stskeepsgets out his git
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17:05.46supermazqwerty12_N810: My LED is now blinking when I got a call on the AM ;)
17:05.54supermazworks great
17:05.57supermazI love this device!
17:05.59qwerty12_N810:)
17:06.10supermaza flashing LED for 200 bucks!
17:07.14supermazNow comes the desktop applet to develop. I think this will be a bit harder ;)
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17:12.03lcuk_holidaysupermaz, nahh just do what qwerty does, use sed to print "qwerty12 was ere" inside existing executables :D :P
17:12.58supermazlcuk_holiday: good idea! I write a daemon that dynamically injects text into other applets and showing the number of new messages! great idea!
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17:13.05supermazat least it is more haxx0r
17:13.28Stskeepstimelyx: pong
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17:13.34lcuk_holidayheh
17:13.37lcuk_holidayhiya Stskeeps \o
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17:13.41Stskeepslo lcuk_holiday
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17:13.56lcuk_holidayenjoy the festival
17:14.01TomaszDno timeless here Stskeeps
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17:16.44StskeepsTomaszD: yeah, i think he might be out for today
17:16.51GAN800spilled half his lunch on the floor when some idiot pulled out in front on him. :(
17:17.21Stskeeps'lo gan
17:17.23X-FadeGAN800: Next time, take a table at MCD? :)
17:18.14GAN800They need to start taking people's licenses away when their reaction times breach the 2 second mark.
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17:20.49GAN800I don't think I've had a McDonald's lunch meal in at least 5 years.
17:21.23Stskeepsponders idly if he still has spiders in his hair from sleeping a week in tent.
17:21.34rzrGAN800: so did I
17:22.02rzrbefore each time i went to mcdo i told myself : never never again
17:22.26GAN800Their breakfast stuff is OK, but if you're getting a fastfood hamburger I can't see any justification for getting one there.
17:22.48rzrGAN800: supersize menu man !
17:22.56derflardman: spadix has a working version of zbar with my QR code integrated.
17:23.05GAN800rzr, I'm not having trouble so far. ;)
17:23.06GAN800Eating chili and a baked potato from Wendy's today.
17:23.28wazdoh, thanks for reminder , need to go to McD :)
17:23.29GAN800Couldn't stand the thought of another bowl of soup after 4 days of liquid diet.
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17:54.33lcuk_holidayStskeeps, would it be easier developing for mer if hildon wasnt there - but using stock gtk
17:54.57lcuk_holidayor is that a seriously harsh amount of code to allow it
17:55.42Stskeepslcuk_holiday: it's a bit of a difficult discussion.. in my world hildon should have been in gtk mainline from the start :P
17:55.48Stskeepsand not really
17:55.51Stskeepsthey're all widgets
17:56.18lcuk_holidayyeah i know
17:56.44lcuk_holidayand i can see why, but if you took the default behaviours of the default gtk and tried to map it to expected behaviour
17:56.55lcuk_holidaykinda like the way qt is being warped around tablet
17:57.33Stskeepsi'm welcoming Qt with open arms
17:57.51lcuk_holidayi dont doubt that
17:59.12Stskeepsif Vala had existed, and Hildon Desktop had been written in it, it might actually have been readable
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18:00.30lcuk_holidayagreed
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18:07.50RST38hhttp://gizmodo.com/5308440/nokia-n97-review-nokia-is-doomed
18:07.52RST38hho ho ho
18:08.07RST38hOvi Store. ho ho ho
18:09.17Meizirkkiho ho ho
18:09.44qwerty12_N810Where?
18:09.54RST38hqwerty: see above link
18:10.17RST38hthe funny thing is, the guy actually like most preinstalled apps. until he tried the Ovi store =)
18:10.50RST38hSts: Speaking of Qt, arms is not where it will go =)
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18:24.58Stskeepsmm, anyone know if HAL support in Xomap is just generally broken?
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18:27.30finnformated the SD card on a windows XP box and I still get the "no filesystem available"
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18:31.47RST38hSega finally invents a robotic cat.
18:32.11qwerty12_N810The one from Chu Chu Rocket?
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18:32.18RST38his eagerly waiting for robotic octopi though... for petting, you know
18:32.34RST38hqwerty: no, freekishly "real" one
18:32.35Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: any knowledge on HAL & Xomap?
18:33.08qwerty12_N810RST38h: I want my KapuKapus :)
18:33.13qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: lol, me?
18:33.59Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: yeah, you have some freakish knowledge at times :P
18:35.38qwerty12_N810Not this time. :) Out of curiosity, 'tis the Fn problem?
18:36.05Stskeepswell i know what it is now
18:36.35StskeepsXKB info isn't set cos HAL support in Xomap is broken, -- because it doesn't even use HAL for Maemo :P
18:37.17qwerty12_N810I found disabling hildon-input-method in Maemo would render my Fn key useless
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18:37.48Stskeepsheh
18:38.53finnmhhh  want the usb  sd card reader to work :/
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18:50.48wazdanother so-so review of n97 http://gizmodo.com/5308440/nokia-n97-review-nokia-is-doomed
18:52.06RST38hwazd: Just posted it minutes ago :)
18:52.16wazdRST38h: oh :)
18:52.21RST38hwazd: nothing new though - the keyboard sucks and Ovi just blows.
18:52.48RST38hwazd: Have you read AAS suggestion about Ovi? =)
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18:54.05wazdRST38h: nope)
18:54.37RST38hwazd: http://www.mobileindustryreview.com/2009/07/nokias_ovi_lets_the_market_decide_the_market_says_no_and_how_to_fix_it.html
18:55.06RST38hwazd: Somehow he forgot to mention electric cattle prods and food deprivation =)
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18:59.01wazdbtw, i've recently installed iTunes to look thru iPhones app store and it sucked badly :)
18:59.30RST38hWell, all those stores starting with Handango have got the same problem
18:59.36wazdnot on n800 but on a freaking multicore, thousands of ram rig :)
18:59.49RST38hHundreds of similar crappy apps.
19:00.12wazdI couldn't even look thru it cause it was damn slow
19:00.35suihkulokkiliars, steve wouldn't let any crappy apps to iphone app store!
19:02.43wazdnot to mention iTunes came to my PC like a gypsy, with billion of it's relatives :)
19:02.50RST38hsuihkulokki: Me and Steve, we have different definitions of "crappy"...
19:03.02wazdSafari, Bojour, Quicktime and so and so :)
19:03.42RST38hwazd: that is why I can't install quicktime - the moment you say "yes" to install, it drops a whole shitload of unneeded stuff to your hd
19:03.59qwerty12_N810Quicktime Alternative FTW
19:05.22wazdWould you like to install Safari? -No -Quicktime 10? -No Bonjour support? -No. Would you like to buy a Mac? -No Macbook maybe? -No. Well, at least an iPod? -No Oh crap...
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19:07.29wazdMy friend don't understand how can I be a designer and don't like Apple same time :)
19:07.33wazdfriends*
19:09.39lbtsure?
19:10.00RST38hwazd: Not gay enough?
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19:10.30wazdRST38h: I don't know how these things are connected :)
19:10.47RST38hwazd: Through heightened sense of style of course~!
19:11.15wazdlbt: sure bout what?)
19:11.32lbtyou have >1  friend  ?   ;)
19:11.43wazdlbt: I thought exactly the same xD
19:12.21wazdRST38h: well, maybe :)
19:12.57wazdRST38h: haven't tested the dependancy between gayness and style sense levels :D
19:13.20RST38hwazd: need a sufficiently large sample, indeed...
19:13.45RST38hwazd: You do tend to draw Mac-styled icons though, so not everything is lost yet =)
19:15.06wazdRST38h: there's no sch thing as "mac style" :) Well, there is OS X icon guidelines but I've made my two icons without any guidelines at all :)
19:16.37lcuk_holidaywazd, when you hang many independent clocks upon a wall, without any real connectivity the pendulums will settle into sync with each other
19:17.20lbtdon't forget about the wall
19:18.04Stskeepssits down and listens to quim's talk
19:18.28lcuk_holidayof course, thats the real answer but people expect other mechanisms - wazd, do you have a wardrobe full of turtleneck sweaters? lol
19:18.33wazdStskeeps: from his keynote?
19:18.53*** join/#maemo madhav (n=Administ@122.172.25.253)
19:19.00wazdlcuk_holiday: I have jeans, turtleneck sweater and even glasses :D
19:19.04Stskeepswazd: yeah
19:19.31lcuk_holidayand a new liver?
19:19.42auntieNeouh, how can I tell if I'm using diablo or chinook? the thing says it's version 5.2008.43-7
19:19.48*** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at)
19:20.07StskeepsauntieNeo: diablo
19:20.14Stskeepswiki.maemo.org/Codenames , i think
19:20.59wazdlcuk_holiday: oh my god! I'm Steve Jobs!
19:22.02lcuk_holiday:O
19:22.28auntieNeothrows a nokia phone at Jobs
19:22.33*** join/#maemo L0cutus (n=kki@94.160.0.88)
19:23.01wazdauntieNeo: I'm melting! Bwaaaaargh!11
19:23.47auntieNeoheh, got my N810 today... finally <_<
19:24.13Stskeepswoo
19:25.19auntieNeoI think I runned it out of memory, 'cuz it frozed :(
19:25.25auntieNeolol
19:25.32*** join/#maemo ignacius (n=ignacius@107.Red-88-9-187.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
19:25.34Stskeepsyou ought to try out Mer sometime :P
19:25.43auntieNeoI'm planning on it :P
19:26.07auntieNeosince it's rumored that nokia will drop N8*0 support :/
19:26.16Stskeepsit's fact, not rumour
19:26.27auntieNeoalthough, I'm also planning on installing debian and using dwm ;P
19:26.38Stskeepsdon't bother with debian really - if it's deblet
19:26.45auntieNeoI'm not really into the tablet stuff, more into the terminal stuff
19:26.45Stskeepsit's old and unmaintaine
19:26.46Stskeepsd
19:26.52auntieNeommm
19:27.00auntieNeodebian?
19:27.03auntieNeodebian arm?
19:27.12StskeepsMer is the successor of Deblet, the debian port to nokia internet tablet :P
19:27.12auntieNeodebian arm is one of the most maintained arm distros out there
19:27.21auntieNeoheh
19:27.25Stskeepsyeah, i know
19:27.35Stskeepsi fucked up an exam because of the damn thing
19:27.36Stskeeps:P
19:27.42auntieNeommm... but uh... I thought maemo was debian based anyway
19:27.58wazdhttp://static.maemo.org/static/m/maemo_brainstorm_introduction.swf <- wow, who did this?)
19:28.10Jaffabergie, I think
19:28.23StskeepsauntieNeo: yeah, but insisting any sanity from installating debian packages should not be expected
19:28.26Stskeeps:P
19:28.37wazdEmilia Hjelm I suppose :)
19:29.07auntieNeodoes Mer have a real X server? i.e. can I run dwm? ;P
19:29.22StskeepsauntieNeo: Xomap is a real X server
19:29.27Stskeepsi'm not sure what dwm is :P
19:29.55auntieNeookay :P
19:30.05auntieNeodwm is a < 2000 line window manager
19:30.20*** join/#maemo fnordianslip (n=fnoridan@94-30-69-47.xdsl.murphx.net)
19:30.21Stskeepsah
19:30.33erik___so that's ok, the screen have leess than 200 lines also :)
19:30.34Stskeepsyou can really do what you want except for GNOME desktop
19:30.34Stskeeps:P
19:30.44auntieNeobleh, GNOME ;P
19:30.46erik___s/200/20000/
19:31.05auntieNeoI meant 2kloc
19:31.15erik___I know, i was kidding :)
19:31.44auntieNeoyou can't kid on the internet. this is serious business
19:31.53erik___(and utterly failed my sed)
19:31.57wazdhttp://s58.radikal.ru/i161/0907/47/44584345dafa.jpg <- possible BlueMaemo multimedia screen :)
19:34.59lcuk_holidayheh much cleaner than my crabby one for talking to my windows daemon http://liqbase.net/liq.20090624_222446.lib.scr.png
19:35.21*** join/#maemo lbt_ (n=david@78.32.229.233)
19:36.30*** join/#maemo torkiano (n=torkiano@29.Red-83-59-49.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
19:37.27wazdlcuk_holiday: well, you have fonts AA, good step forward :)
19:37.44lcuk_holidaythats been standard for ages, nothing special
19:37.54lcuk_holidayeven original liqbase had them
19:41.10wazdlcuk_holiday: hmm
19:41.26wazdlcuk_holiday: maybe I was wrong :)
19:41.36lcuk_holidaytheres just so little of liqbase using fonts that you dont normally notice ;)
19:42.37Maceri want a damn touchbook!
19:42.40Macerheh
19:42.57Maceri hate waiting for crap to come out.
19:43.14Macern900.. touchbook.. a pc that doesnt suck...
19:43.17Maceretc
19:45.56auntieNeoeverything sucks :P
19:46.09auntieNeoexcept for the gameboy pocket
19:46.11auntieNeothat was perfect
19:47.05auntieNeoI was waiting for the pandora when I thought "screw that" and bought the N810 ;P
19:47.20Stskeepsgood choice
19:47.26*** join/#maemo brankinhu (n=quassel@201.56.102.13)
19:48.24auntieNeoI'm still waiting for a device that will continue the HP Jornada form factor :/
19:48.34auntieNeobut that will never happen, sadly :(
19:49.49*** join/#maemo MishaS (n=MishaS@a91-154-121-138.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
19:49.53*** part/#maemo MishaS (n=MishaS@a91-154-121-138.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
19:51.25FirebirdauntieNeo, doesn't Sony VAIO make one that's close? http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/01/21/article-1125682-0300EC1D000005DC-283_468x344.jpg
19:55.11*** join/#maemo skibur (n=skibur@adsl-69-153-63-1.dsl.snantx.swbell.net)
19:56.45Macerheh
19:56.51Macerwell i am sold on this touchbook
19:57.18Macersure would like to see what kind of "custom os" it runs
19:57.39Macerconsidering the n900 probably wont be out til 2012
19:57.43Macerheh
19:58.03qwerty12_N810Macer: s/n900/Pandora/ :)
19:58.16Macerwell. whatever thwey want to call it
19:58.21*** join/#maemo ignacius (n=ignacius@107.Red-88-9-187.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
19:58.25Maceri suppose renaming it is progress
19:58.33Macerso maybe 2011
19:58.37Macer:)
19:58.56Macerthen when it comes out it will be old hardware
19:59.55Macerah well. i am going to order some food
20:00.07RST38hVAX loses 0:3
20:00.43Macerpandora huh?
20:00.50Macerthats kind of a crappy name
20:01.19Stskeepspandora's box of excuses
20:01.29Macerhaha
20:01.42Macerthe only thing left in the box is hope
20:01.44Macer:)
20:02.14qwerty12_N810If scamming is considered an evil, then I guess the name is befitting...
20:02.16Macerlike hope nokia doesnt abandon a niche market device?
20:02.21RST38hWhile you are joking, N900 is quickly closing on Pandora in terms of empty promises =(
20:02.33*** join/#maemo dieb_ (n=dieb@189.71.13.32)
20:02.44MacerRST38h: yeah. you guys should give up on nokia
20:02.49ShadowJKcan't remember any promises
20:02.55Macerand find a new device
20:02.57Macerheh
20:03.20Macerand change th # name to Mer
20:03.33Macerbecause maemo seems dead
20:04.32ShadowJKif maemo is dead then isn't mer too dead?
20:05.13Macerno. they can take over from where nokia abandoned them
20:05.53Stskeepshah, :P
20:06.00Stskeepsnot yet
20:06.07Stskeepsgive me a budget for a developer team
20:06.26wazdMacer: n900 wont be out untill june 2035 ;)
20:06.43coldbootI still don't understand why anyone would want an n810.
20:06.55coldbootI don't know what Nokia's trying to do with this device.
20:07.02auntieNeolol :(
20:07.13auntieNeoit's for geeks that have no use for the device but to hack it ;P
20:07.18wazdbtw, if only sony put an arm into Vaio P - that would be a real thing :)
20:07.22auntieNeothat's why I bought it
20:07.26qwerty12_N810coldboot: you and Luke-Jr should team up :)
20:07.30*** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@p5B203DD7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
20:08.06Stskeepscoldboot: what would you want with it?
20:08.16ShadowJKI bought N810 because it had bigger screen and more RAM than my cellphone :) nicer for browsing internet on the couch than on the phone
20:08.26wazdlistening to "the Wall"
20:08.28ShadowJKas a bonus it's faster too
20:08.40ShadowJKand runs linux :)
20:09.05coldbootStskeeps: For it not to be so huge and have a cell radio, and a decent keyboard.
20:09.21Stskeepscoldboot: get a n900 then. really.
20:09.29ShadowJKThe only decent keyboard, the E70 keyboard, has been killed :)
20:09.37Stskeepsthe developer units we saw (not a n900, .. just a devel board) was drool-worthy.
20:09.52wazdI wonder if there's any device that is enough for absolutely everyone?)
20:10.05Stskeepswazd: i doubt it. i will have multiple devices in my apartment.
20:10.20*** join/#maemo waynew (n=wayne@74.194.40.212)
20:10.20wazdEveryone will always want something
20:10.25ShadowJKwazd, just the screen size issue makes it impossible :)
20:10.30waynewhi, does anyone know what hildonized means?
20:10.35ShadowJKI want bigger screen, say 7 - 10", other people want smaller :)
20:10.47RST38hwazd: Yes. Drugs.
20:11.16auntieNeowaynew: it means that the app has been modified to use the hildon gui
20:11.20Stskeepswazd: it means converting an interface and app to fit the mobile form factor and interfacing
20:11.21coldbootShadowJK: Isn't Apple making a tablet PC soon?
20:11.24auntieNeoi.e. it's been maemoized
20:12.04ShadowJKcoldboot, I suspect there would be even greater pain making that run Linux and all the usual software I use on my computer than a future N900..
20:13.06ShadowJKplus I'm not too keen on the appletax :)
20:13.25wazdLike everybody wants a thin and light, pocketable device with 7" screen, 80000 MAh battery, all possible radios, ARM cpu with ability to run Crysis, fullsized keyboard, huge trackpad, capacitive touchscreen with stylus support, rocketlauncher and coffee machine :)
20:13.40coldbootShadowJK: What do you want your handheld device to do? I love using Linux, but the fumbly awkwardness of the n810 or n900's interface isn't worth it.
20:13.55ShadowJKwhat awkwardness?
20:14.04wazdcoldboot: use KDE
20:14.10waynewauntieNeo: thanks
20:14.23*** part/#maemo waynew (n=wayne@74.194.40.212)
20:14.27tbfcoldboot: interesting that you know the n900's UI already... :-p
20:14.35coldbootThe keyboard sucks, having to use a stylus instead of touching, the slow interface (not in terms of software performance)
20:14.54coldboottbf: I'm assuming it won't be a giant leap over the previous.
20:15.01ShadowJKif nokia came out with N900 with the same hw specs as rumoured, but ran basically diablo/maemo4 on it, I'd still buy it. I'd probably be less hesitant to buy it that way really..
20:15.51wazdShadowJK: use Mer then
20:15.52coldbootNokia's n810 interface is basically the same design as a desktop computer.
20:16.12auntieNeolol, w/e coldboot
20:16.13tbfcoldboot: seems you didn't see maemo5 sdk screenshots yet
20:16.16coldbootThe better mobile devices has tried to make things faster to do.
20:16.19ShadowJKIf they added a tiny trackball in the corner or on tbe back it'd be perfect :-)
20:16.28wazdShadowJK: it's UI is optimized to run fast on a microwave :)
20:16.32*** join/#maemo L0cMini9 (n=kki@94.160.39.54)
20:17.05*** join/#maemo crashanddie (n=crashand@SecuraBit/listener/crashanddie)
20:17.07auntieNeoI bought my n810 knowing that the keyboard sucked... so I've been building a chorded keyboard to velcro to the back of it ;P
20:17.11coldboottbf: Where are the screenshots?
20:17.22auntieNeonow I just gotta wire the keys :/
20:17.32ShadowJKcoldboot, I don't want some new UI designed by some idiots who think they know what "intuitive", "easy to use" and $buzzword means if it makes it harder to run normal programs on it
20:17.49tbfcoldboot: google has them
20:18.29lcuk_holidayauntieNeo, are you using a standard command protocol to get data back - could your chording keyboard be used as a game pad expansion
20:18.37ShadowJKor the latest fingerpainting craze, or whatever comes next after the fingerpainting stuff. Maybe using your nose
20:18.37wazdShadowJK: thak you xD
20:19.18auntieNeolcuk_holiday: uh, I'm using a microcontroller to convert it into a standard usb keyboard
20:19.22wazdShadowJK: iPhone users already use noses btw :D
20:19.43wazdShadowJK: to answer the call in winter :)
20:19.55auntieNeolol
20:19.55ShadowJKwazd, yes I'm aware they worship the apple ceo
20:20.03lcuk_holidayauntieNeo, did you know, there is an internal usb panel i believe - and theres an extension battery case and mods by someone else for extended memory card
20:20.22lcuk_holidayi bet the extended case could be modded and you could have a wire-free implementation
20:20.28coldbootShadowJK: There are definitely design considerations to make when making a mobile device easier to use, regardless of buzzwords. If you just want a small laptop, then I guess you have it.
20:20.31lcuk_holiday(visible wires anyway)
20:20.48auntieNeothere's another USB header in the n810?
20:21.10coldbootShadowJK: But without a mouse and keyboard, all of the things you'd usually do are much less convenient on a mobile device.
20:21.13lcuk_holidayyes, under/near the battery i believe (i hope im not just remembering the wrong thing
20:21.28ShadowJKthere's just one USB port on the N810.. it's accessible through the port on the side or the headers near/under the battery
20:21.40ShadowJKthere are also some diagnostic pads and a serial port near/under the battery..
20:21.42qwerty12_N810lcuk_holiday: that's serial
20:21.50ShadowJKthere's USB there too
20:21.53lcuk_holidayit may be physically connected to the external one, but for a device designed to be physically attached it would be be more comfortable
20:22.13ShadowJKand yes it's connected to the external one so if you use it you can't use the external :)
20:22.31lcuk_holidaythe external is pretty much useless for most people
20:22.48lcuk_holidayyou cant carry round without uncomfortable stand not closing
20:23.13lcuk_holidayusing the internal one for a new input device would be cool
20:23.16ShadowJKcoldboot, there is a keyboard, and if they'd make the stylus behave like a laptop's touchpad or add keys on the side for mouse buttons it'd be nice :-)
20:23.36auntieNeothere's a bunch of contacts under the battery... which one? :P
20:23.41auntieNeoI googled it...
20:23.58lcuk_holidaydoes it matter right now as long as we find out for sure if thats a possible pathway
20:24.33auntieNeommm... I'd have to drill through the metal battery cover or something
20:24.39auntieNeoI wonder if you can get cover replacements...
20:24.45lcuk_holidaythats why i mentioned the alternative ones
20:24.50lcuk_holidaythere are people who can make them to spec
20:25.05coldbootShadowJK: The keyboard sucks, and isn't always deployed. And you don't use it like you do on a computer, with at least one hand almost always on it. I'm just saying that since the way you use the hardware is different so the software has to accommodate to make things just as convenient.
20:25.17lcuk_holidayif you can show a simple hackable workable example (which works for you) then others may get involved
20:25.21coldbootSo the design of the iPhone, although limited, makes it much easier to do the tasks you'd generally want to do on a mobile device.
20:25.34coldbootAlso a blackberry, which is less intuitive, but I'd say much faster to do things.
20:25.55coldbootWhereas a nokia device is mostly just a small laptop with a crappy keyboard and a stylus.
20:25.58auntieNeocoldboot: people buy the n810 because they don't want to be limited like that :P
20:25.58lbtJaffa: badger.... git-svn ? .... :)
20:26.24lcuk_holidayauntieNeo, http://www.remotefactory.com/32gbn810sdSSMetal.html
20:26.24coldbootauntieNeo: Yeah I understand that, there needs to be more of a compromise with usability or nobody's going to want to use the thing.
20:26.46ShadowJKThe tasks I do on a mobile device mostly falls down to: 1) internet browsing, or 2) forget it and pick up the N810, or 3) start putty so I can get to real computer
20:26.47coldbootIt can be way more usable without being limited.
20:26.54auntieNeousability is a very subjective word
20:27.01auntieNeoI define usable as the ability to recompile my kernel ;P
20:27.18ShadowJKthe problem is that there's a /ton/ of software that you'd have to rewrite
20:27.20lcuk_holidayondevice? using binary switches
20:28.23ShadowJKhaving python available on the cellphone helps alot, but it's quite awkward to find and execute the glue scripts you end up writing to fill in the gaps
20:28.39coldbootShadowJK: Or have both ways coexisting.
20:28.57lcuk_holidayauntieNeo, good luck with your project \o
20:29.01coldbootauntieNeo: And this is why only a few people are ever going to use these things.
20:29.01lcuk_holidaygoes back lurking
20:33.40auntieNeolcuk_holiday: thanks! I'll email that guy :P
20:34.32*** join/#maemo SHADOW_V (n=SHADOW_V@c-24-0-8-231.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
20:34.33lcuk_holidayget your proto together first, have you made one before
20:34.36MacerStskeeps:  im just saying that it is good you made mer universal
20:34.47Macerat least you wont be stuck only using nokia stuff
20:35.03StskeepsMacer: i only did it for the free hardware donations
20:35.04Stskeeps:P
20:35.19Stskeepsnah, kidding. developing on x86 for mer is -delicious-
20:35.33Macernokia will leave you stranded once they see it isnt viable to continue support
20:35.47Macerx86?!
20:35.51Macerdont do it!
20:36.12StskeepsMacer: oh, we have x86 port since day 1 really
20:36.15Macerheh
20:36.19ShadowJKNokia did S60 on x86 :)
20:36.30Macerlol
20:36.35StskeepsMacer: it helps a lot to be able to try your app on your desktop pc first
20:36.40ShadowJKapparently it's "very fast"
20:37.11Maceri'd hope a 3GHz x86 would go faster than a 400MHz arm
20:37.15Macer;)
20:37.34Maceri mean even with taking arch into account
20:37.51ShadowJKoh I think it was Atom they used
20:37.55Macerbut i was just saying nokia is a corp
20:37.57ShadowJKfor some demo
20:38.05Macerwhose main objective is profit
20:38.30Macerthey will eventually leave you to fend for yourself
20:39.02Macersince personally i think "pandora" will be a dud
20:39.38Macern810s had a chance if they didnt get screwed by the wimax projects
20:39.51Macerbut wimax became the new enron
20:40.12Macerwhen i think wimax i think enron and the india power plant
20:40.21ShadowJKhey I'm on wimax :)
20:40.29ShadowJKnon-mobile wimax though
20:40.33MacerShadowJK: heh
20:41.00Macernon mobile? whats the point?
20:41.03ShadowJKhas a dish in his antenna tower in the backyard
20:41.11ShadowJKThe point is broadband internet :)
20:41.17Macerunless youre in the boonies and cant get anything
20:41.21Macerelse
20:41.49Macerclocking 54mbit ShadowJK ?
20:41.50ShadowJKADSL doesn't reach too well over 10km of mixed copper/steel/aluminium wires :)
20:42.02Macerget cable
20:42.06Maceror fios
20:42.19Macerbbl. have to do stuff
20:42.32ShadowJKit would be stupid to dig down cable
20:42.44ShadowJKwe're digging down fibre :)
20:43.21ShadowJKbut it'll take a year or two still before it reaches coverage and gets any connectivity
20:45.46ShadowJKif the mobile operators had been a year or two faster with 3G rollout I imagine people wouldn't have signed up the fibre
20:46.25RST38hShadowJK: where is it? (the dish I mean)
20:46.45ShadowJKand just replaced their telephones and adsl with 3G instead when the telephone company withdraws and takes their copper with them
20:47.01ShadowJKI live in .fi if that's what you mean
20:47.07RST38hoh
20:47.23RST38hwas wondering where in the world you would have to use a dish
20:47.56ShadowJKThe company providing wimax standardized on "one size fits all" for the equipment
20:48.31ShadowJKThe range is somewhere between 20-30km with it
20:48.57RST38hso why not wimax then?
20:49.04ShadowJKit is wimax?
20:49.23RST38hwith a dish? hmm
20:49.26ShadowJKyes
20:49.31RST38hinteresting
20:49.39ShadowJKdirectional antenna
20:49.47ShadowJKlooks like a tiny flat satellite dish
20:49.51RST38hyea, at 10km range you would probably need it...
20:49.57RST38hnow when I think about it...
20:50.26Luke-JrauntieNeo: except the N810 is closed, so us geeks can't actually hack it properly
20:51.07Luke-Jrcoldboot: convert to Gentoo *hypnotise beam*
20:51.16ShadowJKthe base station is at the top of a 90 metre tall mast, the backbone connection is a big high-gain microwave ethernet bridge to another huge mast about 40km away connected to fibre :-)
20:51.28coldbootLuke-Jr: How is it closed?
20:51.33Stskeepshere we go again..
20:51.45Stskeepsducttapes Luke-Jr to the wall
20:51.54Luke-Jrcoldboot: lack of specification of any kind for the GPS and battery charger
20:52.09RST38hSts: dict tape his mouth too
20:52.19coldbootLuke-Jr: That sucks.
20:52.31RST38hSts: do it with a Windows serial number sticker, for better effect
20:52.56qwerty12_N810has a vista one, should be befitting for the task
20:53.30eichihm mediabox is a good app, but needs very much buttons-press to get music playing ;) kanu is there much faster
20:56.00ShadowJKtries to remember how to relaunch bme after it dies
20:56.31Stskeepspanic, usually
20:56.31Stskeeps:P
20:56.40qwerty12_N810Panicking not working? :)
20:57.25ShadowJKshall kll bme then attach charger
20:58.04ShadowJKvoltage recorded before and willdisconnect charger, restart bme and take new voltage reading in 15 min :)
20:58.09*** join/#maemo hugopl (n=hugo@200.184.118.130)
20:58.19Luke-Jr…
20:58.33Luke-JrStskeeps: ShadowJK gets the bomb before me
20:58.34ShadowJKto test if it charges without the blob
20:58.43qwerty12_N810Luke-Jr: how's your reversing going btw?
20:59.02Luke-Jrqwerty12_N810: haven't had time for a week or 2
20:59.10qwerty12_N810Ah
20:59.56ShadowJKluke: thsnks for reminding me... current battery state would make it approach danger levels in <30 minutes if charger ends up dumping all power into battery :)
21:00.12ShadowJKwish me luck
21:01.09Luke-Jr………
21:01.49Jaffalbt: done
21:01.52Stskeeps10 bucks there's some kind of watchdog
21:01.55Stskeepsevening jaffa
21:02.05lbtJaffa: thanks
21:03.45Luke-JrStskeeps: WTF
21:03.58Luke-JrStskeeps: why do you try terrorism on me if you think there's a watchdog?
21:04.15Luke-Jrslaps a terrorist label on Stskeeps
21:04.31StskeepsLuke-Jr: because I also know engineers can be senile at times
21:06.07Stskeepswazd: ping
21:06.25xnt14is really bored
21:06.40xnt14sits down and plays around with processingjs
21:06.51wazdStskeeps: pong :)
21:07.23xnt14hmm
21:08.11xnt14http://xceleo.org/ui/
21:08.16*** join/#maemo EdLin (n=toot@securabit/listener/edlin)
21:08.18xnt14tests it on his nit
21:09.29xnt14:) it works fine :)
21:11.52*** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@86.56.59.252)
21:14.35*** join/#maemo krutt (n=mk@p4FC323E6.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:17.43ShadowJK16 minutes, tablet lives still. now to restart bme :)
21:19.11ShadowJKbme restarted.. doing hal restart
21:19.58Luke-Jr…
21:20.19ShadowJKhey that's funny :-)
21:20.31Stskeepsmm?
21:20.36Luke-Jrxnt14: that's … wtf?
21:22.40ShadowJKit was reporting 995mAh charge before
21:22.52Luke-Jr…
21:22.58Luke-JrShadowJK: RESULTS. NOW.
21:22.59ShadowJKand now 416
21:23.24Luke-JrYOUR HYPOTHESIS IS FAIL
21:23.58ShadowJK500mAh in 15 minutes would be 2 amps of current. this should have made the tablet hot enough to fry an egg on the back cover
21:24.04ShadowJKit's cold though
21:24.18ShadowJKwaits for voltage readings
21:24.24jaskaportable omelet machine
21:25.04ShadowJKah gotta let it idle to get useful voltages
21:26.56xnt14luke-jr, random crap in processingjs
21:27.31xnt14now reload it: http://xceleo.org/ui/
21:27.32xnt14;)
21:28.03xnt14and it runs smoothly on the nit ;)
21:28.50xnt14canvas is acting weird on my ipod....hmm...
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21:32.27ShadowJKwell if it did charge i can't tell :)
21:32.33ShadowJKpobably didnt
21:34.00ShadowJKI need to make something so I can measure current at charger port :)
21:34.38coldbootThe flashing QAbstractItemView bug is indeed because of the hildon input method.
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22:28.11JaffaAnyone know of any docs pointing to the best practices for power mgmt (preferably in Python)? e.g. which DBUS signals and Gtk+ signals to stop updates on etc.
22:29.19lbtJaffa: no... but please let us/me know what you find....
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22:36.40Macerugh
22:36.51Macerit is like the day that never ended
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22:47.56lesouvageI have a nokia770 with os2006 and I want to install a msn client . I tried pidgin and gaim but pidgin didn't want to  install and gain can't find the protocol (that I had installed) when launched. Are there other option to get msn running (webenabled or an other client or a fix for what is going wrong now)
22:55.04jophishif nothing else works you could try a java based client online
22:55.24jophishunlikely to work though
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23:08.15jaem_N810hey folks
23:09.07jaem_N810I'm trying to use the webapp at http://nowdothis.com/, but after a minute or two of editing, it locks up both microB and Tear
23:10.03jaem_N810I'm not entirely sure why, and I'm not great with JS, so I haven't looked under the hood
23:10.34jaem_N810it works fine on my desktop, though, using Firefox or a webkit-based browser
23:12.13Jaffalbt: Right, I've got an OSSO power save example. Now just need to find a window foreground/background thingy and I'll write it up
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23:39.16Jaffatries his first PyMaemo app in the Fremantle SDK (works on N810)
23:41.28jaem_N810Jaffa: what is the app?
23:41.42JaffaA little accerometer based demo
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23:42.23lcukwobbles jaffas chair
23:42.31jaem_N810interesting
23:43.14jaem_N810hey lcuk: any idea when you'll be making another release? The demo videos you keep posting are making me drool
23:44.13lcukhttp://twitter.com/lcuk/status/2403094680
23:45.08jaem_N810sorry... >_< I don't follow Twitter
23:45.43Pavlovlcuk: nice
23:46.12jaem_N810looking good... :)
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23:58.28JaffaBah, humbug. Fremantle SDK doesn't show anything except corruption when running on my box when doing anything fancy (e.g. app menus, cairo)
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