| 00:04.28 | VDVsx | wazd, well, you last shot, is delete the device in the PC side and add it again (n800 in the Waiting for connection screen) |
| 00:05.06 | wazd | VDVsx: already did it |
| 00:07.13 | VDVsx | wazd, have to go, cya |
| 00:08.44 | wazd | VDVsx: cya) |
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| 00:19.19 | wazd | wow! I've found chineese community! http://www.tabletfans.com/ |
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| 00:51.25 | GAN800 | timeless_mbp, hi. |
| 00:51.43 | GAN800 | is bed-ridden. |
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| 01:51.43 | Guest2870_357 | In Scratchbox configuration After rootstrap unpacking... How i select a files i want install?I mean how key i press for select or unselect files? |
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| 02:05.35 | erik___ | hi there |
| 02:06.35 | erik___ | I recently bought a N810 and I got a couple of questions |
| 02:06.44 | erik___ | I hope some people aroudn can answer them :) |
| 02:07.10 | erik___ | I found that it was globally not really responsive |
| 02:07.51 | erik___ | when checking the ressource usage, I found that browserd take around 50% of the ram just after the boot |
| 02:08.10 | erik___ | and that maemo-launcher takes around 30% |
| 02:09.10 | erik___ | I understand what browserd is. Is it possible to only launch it when a browser window opens ? |
| 02:09.31 | erik___ | Also what is maemo-launcher ? |
| 02:10.18 | erik___ | Is it the window manager here ? |
| 02:11.07 | erik___ | An other question, if I try an other distribution such as deblet. Could I switch back to maemo later ? |
| 02:13.04 | GAN800 | Those RAM usage figures aren't useful. |
| 02:13.11 | GAN800 | Enable swap. |
| 02:13.28 | GAN800 | Sure, but Maemo is the fastest available by far. |
| 02:13.49 | GAN800 | Deblet has generally been deprecated in favor of Mer. |
| 02:13.57 | GAN800 | ~mer |
| 02:13.57 | infobot | somebody said mer was http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer |
| 02:14.53 | erik___ | Ok. How much swap is usually recommended ? |
| 02:15.06 | GAN800 | 128MB is good. |
| 02:15.24 | erik___ | can the swap partition be hosted in internal memory ? or is an SD card prefered ? |
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| 02:15.39 | GAN800 | x1.5 RAM is the usual recommended value, but as both the flash and RAM are so slow. . . . |
| 02:16.00 | GAN800 | SD card is what the GUI will let you set it as. |
| 02:16.21 | GAN800 | Which is probably the best option. |
| 02:18.38 | erik___ | yesterday I tried to use the GPS with the bundled (crappy) maps. And it crashed the NIT severak time. Do you believe it is linked to the memory issue, to the map software or something else ? |
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| 02:22.05 | Guest8418_412 | how i can stop all scratchbox sessions...and how came back whitout target? Plz |
| 02:26.21 | GAN800 | erik___, could be memory. But I recommend trying Maemo Mapper. Make sure you also install A-GPS. |
| 02:29.11 | erik___ | one more question, I heard maemo applications should be written using tk. But it seems that QT is the next default choice. For the moment I need only basic UIs. Is there anythign like TK available ? |
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| 02:33.42 | andre__ | erik___, what is "TK"? |
| 02:33.52 | erik___ | tk as in tcl/tk |
| 02:34.10 | andre__ | i wonder where you read that... |
| 02:34.19 | man_in_shack | erik___, you mean gtk? |
| 02:34.22 | andre__ | current toolkit is based on gtk. |
| 02:34.22 | erik___ | amsn is written in tk |
| 02:34.37 | man_in_shack | tk is not a language |
| 02:34.38 | andre__ | so you can use either qt or gtk |
| 02:35.04 | andre__ | Guest8418_412, i don't understand your question |
| 02:35.08 | erik___ | man_in_shack: yeha, it is written in tcl/tk |
| 02:35.14 | man_in_shack | i know |
| 02:35.20 | man_in_shack | it's hideously ugly |
| 02:35.32 | erik___ | but quite easy to write :) |
| 02:35.38 | man_in_shack | yes |
| 02:35.54 | man_in_shack | but gtk is also easy to write once you get the hang of it |
| 02:36.09 | man_in_shack | it actually shares a lot of principles with tk |
| 02:36.41 | erik___ | Perhaps I should give it a try then. Last time I looked at it, it was no better than xlib :) |
| 02:36.58 | man_in_shack | has coded in python/tk, python+glade/gtk, and python/gtk |
| 02:37.28 | man_in_shack | the pygtk reference is very useful |
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| 02:38.54 | erik___ | OK, I'll see how it works. Guess I have to read how to install the cross compiler also |
| 02:39.16 | man_in_shack | not if you're coding in python |
| 02:39.34 | erik___ | I don't plan to code in python |
| 02:39.45 | man_in_shack | what do you plan to code in? |
| 02:39.47 | erik___ | I'd like to port a couple of applicatin I wrote in C++ anyway |
| 02:40.03 | man_in_shack | ah ... well, ... have fun :P |
| 02:40.17 | erik___ | Oh. Do you know if there is an SDL frontend ? |
| 02:40.26 | man_in_shack | for what? |
| 02:41.22 | erik___ | One of my so-that-is-a-new-platform-lets-see-how-it-works application is written using SDL |
| 02:41.54 | GAN800 | SDL is there. |
| 02:42.15 | man_in_shack | i'm trying to work out what at's the backend of the sdl frontend :D |
| 02:44.11 | Guest8418_412 | just want to switc properly in x86 instead armel? what is a command for that? |
| 02:44.27 | erik___ | man_in_shack: sometimes you don't want to know :) |
| 02:44.43 | erik___ | Is there a way to interpret x86 ? |
| 02:45.00 | man_in_shack | cpu emulator? well ... there is dosbox :P |
| 02:45.12 | erik___ | that's what I tought :) |
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| 02:46.10 | andre__ | Guest8418_412, sb-conf se FREMANTLE_X86 for fremantle |
| 02:46.19 | andre__ | "sb-conf se FREMANTLE_X86" |
| 02:46.45 | Guest8418_412 | and if its for DIABLO |
| 02:46.59 | Guest8418_412 | "sb-conf se FREMANTLE_X86"? |
| 02:47.11 | andre__ | "sb-conf se DIABLO_X86"? |
| 02:47.16 | Guest8418_412 | "sb-conf se DIABLO_X86" |
| 02:47.18 | Guest8418_412 | ok |
| 02:47.50 | *** join/#maemo eichi_ (n=eichi@p5B200C47.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:47.50 | Guest8418_412 | ERROR: Scratchbox is not properly set up! |
| 02:47.56 | Guest8418_412 | oups |
| 02:49.08 | andre__ | Guest8418_412, try "/scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start" before logging in |
| 02:49.35 | andre__ | well, or "/scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl stop" before that :-P |
| 02:51.11 | Guest8418_412 | There were errors during the umounting! |
| 02:51.44 | andre__ | Guest8418_412, after you ran which command? |
| 02:53.04 | Guest8418_412 | m |
| 02:53.20 | Guest8418_412 | ''/scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl stop'' |
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| 02:53.51 | Guest8418_412 | ''/scratchbox/sbin/register_misc_runner: line 25:'' |
| 02:54.00 | Guest8418_412 | whit maybe 10 input from there |
| 02:54.41 | Guest8418_412 | binfmt_misc. |
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| 03:52.24 | xnt14 | hi |
| 03:52.35 | xnt14 | xchat doesn't install :P |
| 03:52.38 | xnt14 | reinstalled |
| 03:52.47 | xnt14 | wonders where the hell is b-man |
| 03:52.53 | xnt14 | ~seen b-man16 |
| 03:52.54 | infobot | b-man16 <n=b-man16@cpe-98-30-195-117.woh.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 13h 42m 58s ago, saying: ':P'. |
| 03:53.09 | xnt14 | argh!!! :P |
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| 04:49.39 | Macer | hello |
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| 05:22.41 | timeless_mbp | GAN800: :( |
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| 06:59.05 | RST38h | Hehe, Quim's presentation has reached Slashdot. |
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| 08:04.16 | timeless_mbp | RST38h: hours ago |
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| 08:32.17 | aquatix | morning all |
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| 08:44.03 | pupnik | moo |
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| 09:01.06 | wazd | heya maemo |
| 09:06.30 | pupnik | hiy |
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| 09:22.57 | crashanddie | gents, what are the screen sizes (horizontal / vertical) of the n810? |
| 09:23.04 | *** join/#maemo _berto_ (n=berto@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) |
| 09:23.13 | crashanddie | (not in pixels, in inches) |
| 09:23.26 | johnx | on the n800 I believe it's 4.3" diagonal |
| 09:23.30 | johnx | and square pixels |
| 09:23.42 | johnx | on the n810 I want to say 4.13" diagonal |
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| 09:24.19 | ShadowJK | measures |
| 09:25.24 | ShadowJK | they seem identical to me |
| 09:25.53 | crashanddie | ShadowJK, have actual sizes? |
| 09:26.47 | ShadowJK | seems 136mm diagonally on both to me |
| 09:27.00 | crashanddie | yeah, but what about vertical and horizontal? |
| 09:27.17 | crashanddie | oh, sorry, shouldn't have used "/" the first time |
| 09:27.31 | flux | well, you can calculate it |
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| 09:28.25 | crashanddie | flux, you happen to have the angle of the diag? |
| 09:29.02 | flux | the pixels are square, right? so the angle is atan(480/800) |
| 09:29.04 | johnx | slope of 480/800 if I'm mathing right |
| 09:29.42 | ShadowJK | 90 x 55 for both |
| 09:29.55 | crashanddie | flux, johnx, ShadowJK: thanks :) |
| 09:30.16 | crashanddie | (I suck at math) |
| 09:30.20 | ShadowJK | The N800 screen seems slightly bigger, but it has slightly smaller viewable area. I tried to measure the viewable area and it seems identical on both |
| 09:31.42 | ShadowJK | probably meant 106 not 136 diagonal |
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| 09:45.01 | supermaz | hi everyone |
| 09:45.21 | supermaz | is there a good reason why I should upgrade to v.5 Fremantle? |
| 09:45.28 | supermaz | and is there an easy way? |
| 09:45.38 | supermaz | I got a new (2 days old) N810 btw |
| 09:45.53 | ShadowJK | There is /no/ way. |
| 09:45.57 | timeless_mbp | fremantle hasn't shipped yet |
| 09:46.03 | ShadowJK | and that too. |
| 09:46.03 | timeless_mbp | it's the code name for a future product |
| 09:46.26 | timeless_mbp | the official way to upgrade will be to buy whatever product runs fremantle |
| 09:46.36 | supermaz | sorry, It seems to be diablo v5 |
| 09:46.43 | timeless_mbp | unofficially, you'll be able to install Mer |
| 09:46.45 | timeless_mbp | um |
| 09:46.50 | timeless_mbp | diablo is Maemo 4.1 |
| 09:47.05 | timeless_mbp | (and the version numbers are mostly useless) |
| 09:47.22 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@128.84-49-134.nextgentel.com) |
| 09:47.47 | supermaz | my current product version seems to be diable 4.2008.30-2 |
| 09:47.51 | timeless_mbp | in general, version X is_not_compatible_with Y for any version X that_is_not_precisely_equal_to Y |
| 09:48.05 | ShadowJK | supermaz, oh there's a newer diablo version. That's probably worth upgrading to atleast |
| 09:48.11 | supermaz | but from the nokia sites I currently download 5.2008.43-7 |
| 09:48.27 | ShadowJK | Yeah that's the latest diablo |
| 09:48.35 | supermaz | OK, is it wearth installing? |
| 09:48.41 | timeless_mbp | yes |
| 09:48.44 | timeless_mbp | but um... |
| 09:48.52 | timeless_mbp | it should iirc offer the update automatically |
| 09:48.53 | supermaz | is there any easy way? Or do I have to flash? |
| 09:49.05 | supermaz | can I use apt-get distupgrade or something? |
| 09:49.10 | supermaz | I have ssh with root access working |
| 09:49.15 | timeless_mbp | application manager should offer the update |
| 09:49.19 | ShadowJK | I would check for updates in the Application Manager |
| 09:49.20 | timeless_mbp | but really, you should get a notification |
| 09:49.22 | supermaz | no, it doesn#t |
| 09:49.25 | timeless_mbp | w/o doing anything |
| 09:49.59 | supermaz | there was an update notificiton but it says a doc-package was missing |
| 09:50.11 | supermaz | I installed that one using apt-get but now there is nothing in the package manager |
| 09:51.18 | supermaz | did I broke the update checking mechanism? |
| 09:51.24 | ShadowJK | It's not that difficult to accidentally remove one of the packages required for the automatic updating thing to work :) |
| 09:51.37 | supermaz | I added some repositorys for thirdparty apps |
| 09:52.03 | timeless_mbp | i'd probably disable those |
| 09:52.07 | supermaz | I checked again and it doesn't finds any updates |
| 09:52.13 | timeless_mbp | but it kinda depends what you've done |
| 09:52.39 | timeless_mbp | if you don't have much stuff installed |
| 09:52.44 | supermaz | and installed some packages which the app manager complains about missing for installing some things |
| 09:53.11 | timeless_mbp | you can create a backup, reflash w/ the latest version, when it reboots, it'll offer to restore the backup |
| 09:53.16 | supermaz | so would it be okay to make a backup of setings and flash? |
| 09:53.27 | supermaz | great! |
| 09:53.37 | supermaz | What do I need to flash from linux system? |
| 09:53.44 | supermaz | I don't have a windows arround |
| 09:54.02 | supermaz | (only one terminal server access, but that won't help...) |
| 09:54.11 | timeless_mbp | http://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page |
| 09:54.19 | timeless_mbp | there's a link from there |
| 09:54.20 | qwerty12_N810 | ~flashing |
| 09:54.21 | infobot | somebody said flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 09:55.10 | timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: um |
| 09:55.12 | timeless_mbp | http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Status/N770 |
| 09:55.16 | supermaz | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Flashing_on_Linux |
| 09:55.18 | supermaz | got it |
| 09:55.19 | timeless_mbp | Mer/Status/N770 |
| 09:55.19 | timeless_mbp | This page gives an overview of the support for the NHokia 770 Tablet |
| 09:55.30 | timeless_mbp | what's NHokia?? |
| 09:55.48 | supermaz | should I make a tar ball of the main memory before flashing? |
| 09:55.49 | ShadowJK | sounds like a chinese manufacturer |
| 09:55.51 | timeless_mbp | lbt: ^^ |
| 09:56.07 | supermaz | does it store the etc dir in the backup? |
| 09:56.17 | ShadowJK | supermaz, the File Manager has a backup/restore feature, but if you want to be safe you can backup your home dir and internal mmc too |
| 09:56.32 | qwerty12_N810 | supermaz: not all of it |
| 09:56.42 | timeless_mbp | backing up /etc is usually stupid |
| 09:56.57 | timeless_mbp | if you know you've made changes, you'd want to make similar changes on a newer system |
| 09:56.58 | supermaz | OK, I just made some changes to dropbear and dnsmasq |
| 09:57.06 | ShadowJK | My usual process on desktop is backing up /etc and then running a diff between the old and new.. heh :/ |
| 09:57.09 | qwerty12_N810 | it backs up to a zip file anyway; I wouldn't want it to backup /etc :) |
| 09:57.12 | supermaz | will redo these afterwards |
| 09:57.59 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=valerio@bl5-202-97.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 09:59.19 | supermaz | sorry for asking again, but where do I get the flasher tool? Is it part of the SDK? |
| 10:00.07 | timeless_mbp | no |
| 10:00.37 | timeless_mbp | http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher |
| 10:01.13 | supermaz | thanks |
| 10:02.11 | *** join/#maemo bergie__ (n=bergie@51.Red-83-61-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 10:06.19 | supermaz | is it wearth to enable rd mode? |
| 10:06.35 | ShadowJK | it has some drawbacks.. |
| 10:07.06 | supermaz | ShadowJK: e.g.? |
| 10:07.27 | ShadowJK | Well if something goes wrong it no longer reboots/resets |
| 10:08.20 | johnx | if you're enabling rd mode to get root, don't do it |
| 10:08.24 | johnx | just install rootsh |
| 10:08.35 | RST38h | moo johnx, Shadow |
| 10:08.47 | wazd | RST38h: heya |
| 10:08.57 | supermaz | johnx: that's what I already did |
| 10:09.08 | johnx | if you're trying to debug a spurious reboot, enable rd mode "no lifeguard reset" |
| 10:09.08 | johnx | hey RST38h |
| 10:09.12 | supermaz | I think thats enough |
| 10:09.16 | RST38h | heya wazd |
| 10:09.21 | johnx | RST38h, you always catch me on my way to bed. it's almost like you're in a totally different timezone :P |
| 10:09.31 | RST38h | johnx: that is because I am =) |
| 10:09.38 | johnx | is shocked |
| 10:09.38 | RST38h | GMT+3 to be exact |
| 10:09.51 | johnx | copes with this shock through the healing power of sleep |
| 10:09.53 | johnx | 'night all |
| 10:09.54 | supermaz | for version 5.2008-... the SDK is still 4.1.2? |
| 10:10.04 | johnx | ja |
| 10:10.04 | wazd | johnx: nini :) |
| 10:10.07 | supermaz | or do I have to use the beta? |
| 10:10.32 | supermaz | I would like to write some little tools which connect to my answering machine... |
| 10:10.34 | RST38h | supermaz: You are trying to flash a Fremantle image into your tablet or what? |
| 10:10.52 | qwerty12_N810 | moo RST38h |
| 10:10.53 | ShadowJK | latest diablo |
| 10:10.54 | supermaz | RST38h: the image name is RX-44_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin |
| 10:11.00 | qwerty12_N810 | supermaz: no, not the beta sdk |
| 10:11.03 | RST38h | heya qwerty |
| 10:11.06 | johnx | ah, can't use the beta sdk to target diablo IIRC |
| 10:11.14 | johnx | night qwerty12_N810 |
| 10:11.16 | RST38h | Oh, I know what "5" stands for, ok |
| 10:11.22 | qwerty12_N810 | g'night johnx |
| 10:11.27 | supermaz | RST38h: it confused me, too |
| 10:11.36 | RST38h | Use SDK 4.1.2 |
| 10:11.43 | RST38h | g'night johnx |
| 10:11.44 | supermaz | so for the image RX-44_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin I would need the SDK 4.1.2, is this right? |
| 10:12.07 | supermaz | and the SDK doesn't runs good on a 64Bit system, I've read? |
| 10:12.26 | RST38h | Problems with AMD CPUs |
| 10:12.26 | supermaz | is new to maemo -> many questions ;) |
| 10:13.03 | supermaz | RST38h: AMD CPUs in general? I mean the SDK |
| 10:13.19 | RST38h | supermaz: Your best bet is to install the latest Ubuntu and install SDK on it |
| 10:13.43 | RST38h | There are other paths, but they are all crooked in one way or another |
| 10:14.06 | RST38h | I, personally, prefer MaemoSDK+ (SB2 rather than SB1) as it is easier to use |
| 10:15.40 | supermaz | atm I just want to compile a little daemon which should flash the LED when we have a new phonecall. The information is send from a daemon on my server |
| 10:16.45 | supermaz | hm,.... |
| 10:17.01 | supermaz | after flashing, my N810 went off and now wan't go on again... |
| 10:17.48 | ShadowJK | D: |
| 10:17.55 | supermaz | f*ck, |
| 10:18.03 | supermaz | is there anything I can do? |
| 10:18.14 | supermaz | bricked my device after 2 days? |
| 10:18.52 | ShadowJK | I was under the impression that would be hard to do :/ |
| 10:19.45 | supermaz | OK, removed the akku, now at least I get the nokia symbol |
| 10:20.10 | supermaz | yea, its up again. Need to remove some sweat... |
| 10:20.54 | ShadowJK | Plus you've got 728 days or something left on your warranty ;) |
| 10:21.23 | supermaz | ShadowJK: I doubt that this will include flashing the device ;=) |
| 10:21.31 | ShadowJK | why not :) |
| 10:21.56 | supermaz | restore is running now |
| 10:22.18 | supermaz | I hope that it also restores my WPA2 password |
| 10:22.27 | supermaz | entering 63 random chars isn't fun! |
| 10:23.11 | aquatix | erm |
| 10:23.23 | aquatix | for wpa2 you can just enter the password right? not the key |
| 10:23.30 | aquatix | or do you have such a big pw for that? |
| 10:23.36 | supermaz | aquatix: the password is 63 arbitrary chars |
| 10:23.38 | ShadowJK | maybe his password is 64 random chars :) |
| 10:23.49 | aquatix | supermaz: fun :) |
| 10:24.00 | supermaz | aquatix: No: safety! ;) |
| 10:24.02 | aquatix | a bit overdone, but whatever ;) |
| 10:24.04 | aquatix | yeah |
| 10:24.14 | supermaz | I has restored the WPA2 pass! |
| 10:24.26 | supermaz | 63 is the max you can have on WPA2 |
| 10:24.54 | supermaz | As nearly all devices store these passwords in profiles you useally don't have anything to do with it |
| 10:25.05 | supermaz | I have a txt file on my usbstick with the key |
| 10:25.19 | supermaz | so on "normal" notebooks you just have to make copy and paste |
| 10:25.43 | aquatix | i hope that stick is encrypted? ;) |
| 10:25.45 | supermaz | harder was it to enter this on my Wii using the wiimote and the virtual keyboard! :) |
| 10:26.09 | supermaz | aquatix: No, but it physically not available to attackers ;) |
| 10:26.10 | aquatix | heh, i know :/ |
| 10:26.23 | aquatix | supermaz: you sure? ;) |
| 10:27.11 | RST38h | flashes a row of shiny surgical instruments at supermaz |
| 10:27.18 | supermaz | aquatix: at least it is hard enough and my WLAN is not that important ;) |
| 10:27.23 | aquatix | true |
| 10:27.37 | aquatix | but it lets to be guessed you have other interesting info on it too :) |
| 10:27.45 | supermaz | the pass is more for drive-by-hacking and kids in the neibourhood |
| 10:28.28 | supermaz | aquatix: on the stick or on the network? |
| 10:28.54 | aquatix | stick |
| 10:29.00 | aquatix | network for sure |
| 10:29.07 | supermaz | true |
| 10:29.12 | aquatix | if only for that /storage/pr0n share |
| 10:29.23 | aquatix | ;) |
| 10:29.30 | supermaz | aquatix: Hey, how did you knwo? ;) |
| 10:29.47 | aquatix | whistles innocently while cd'ing around on supermaz' network |
| 10:31.01 | supermaz | aquatix: Maybe I should give you some missing things you can look arround for ;=) |
| 10:31.26 | supermaz | aquatix: and please finish this tax report for the tax office while you are in that folder |
| 10:32.01 | aquatix | adds some extra property to the form so supermaz will have to pay more |
| 10:33.05 | *** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@p5B200C47.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:33.18 | supermaz | then I have to shut down the servers as I can't pay the electricity bills anymore... |
| 10:33.40 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (n=crashand@SecuraBit/listener/crashanddie) |
| 10:33.58 | supermaz | and don't you want to have access to the >1TB pr0n archive? |
| 10:34.33 | *** join/#maemo kpel (n=mcu@unaffiliated/kpel) |
| 10:34.38 | aquatix | well, that'll take a bit and by that time i'll be finished downloading |
| 10:34.47 | supermaz | OK |
| 10:34.57 | *** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoasb-ff0ddd00-14.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 10:34.59 | aquatix | :) |
| 10:35.24 | supermaz | I hope I get this SDK running, then I can make my wife happy when the LED flashes when we have new calls on the Answering machine ;) |
| 10:35.40 | supermaz | I think that 200 ⬠aren't to much for this, am I wrong? |
| 10:35.47 | aquatix | heh, you're hacking your answering machine? |
| 10:35.58 | supermaz | No, already did this ;) |
| 10:36.07 | aquatix | 200 EUR for a voicemail machine? |
| 10:36.14 | supermaz | my answering machine is on the server as you should already have seen ;) |
| 10:36.24 | supermaz | ISDN card with capisuite |
| 10:36.25 | aquatix | oh, that's that weird app |
| 10:36.25 | aquatix | kk |
| 10:36.41 | supermaz | added some codes to send the calls into mysql |
| 10:37.05 | supermaz | using a website to listen to the calls and download the incoming faxes as PDF files |
| 10:37.16 | supermaz | I can even check the AM from my Wii ;) |
| 10:37.34 | supermaz | as the audioplayback is in Flash (the damn Wii can't play MP3...) |
| 10:37.41 | aquatix | heh, nice |
| 10:37.45 | aquatix | has voip at home |
| 10:37.54 | supermaz | doesn't like VOIP |
| 10:37.55 | aquatix | get my AM messages by mail from the system |
| 10:38.03 | aquatix | well, it's voip over adsl |
| 10:38.07 | supermaz | my internet line is always busy... |
| 10:38.16 | aquatix | safes me paying for a telephone subscription |
| 10:38.19 | aquatix | true |
| 10:38.22 | aquatix | don't use it anyway |
| 10:38.30 | supermaz | could send the messages by mail, too. But I like the webinterface |
| 10:38.35 | aquatix | but sometimes family dials it |
| 10:38.41 | supermaz | can check this from all arround the world, too |
| 10:38.46 | supermaz | just need a internet pc |
| 10:38.47 | aquatix | mostly just use my mobile phone though |
| 10:39.21 | supermaz | As I got my office at home, I need a good telephon line |
| 10:39.33 | aquatix | fair enough |
| 10:39.41 | aquatix | i might prefer isdn myself too then |
| 10:40.01 | aquatix | especially combined with some nifty routing and such with a server like you're doing |
| 10:40.30 | supermaz | I really like my AM ;) My wife doesn't share this... |
| 10:41.05 | supermaz | I have programmed a little driver which outputs the last 5 calls on a display (128x64) via parallel port ;) |
| 10:41.12 | *** join/#maemo kkrusty (n=cache@5ac02095.bb.sky.com) |
| 10:41.26 | supermaz | but with this you can't play the messages. So now we can play the messages from the N810! |
| 10:41.26 | aquatix | sounds like a more wife-friendly UI |
| 10:41.31 | aquatix | hm |
| 10:41.33 | aquatix | ghehe |
| 10:41.50 | *** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoasb-ff0ddd00-14.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 10:42.10 | supermaz | but the cable we put in the floor for the display from the server to the living room seems to be defective |
| 10:42.33 | supermaz | I will have to put the display somewhere else |
| 10:42.57 | supermaz | my brother has created a nice looking aluminium frame for it |
| 10:43.34 | supermaz | will think about making a reqeust at guinness for beeing the person with the most devices for reading the AM ;) |
| 10:43.54 | aquatix | don't you love overdoing things ;) |
| 10:44.29 | supermaz | doubt that ;) |
| 10:45.51 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (n=pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) |
| 10:47.30 | RST38h | no you just need somebody who will leave those messages... |
| 10:47.37 | RST38h | s/no/now |
| 10:48.02 | supermaz | would it be a problem to make the internal mmc an ext3 filesystem? |
| 10:48.18 | supermaz | and get rid of this f*cking fat? |
| 10:49.05 | timeless_mbp | depends on your needs |
| 10:49.21 | timeless_mbp | it's fat to enable it to work when you plug it into random other systems |
| 10:49.27 | timeless_mbp | e.g. a mac or windows box |
| 10:49.28 | *** join/#maemo amr (n=amr@cpc3-leed7-0-0-cust865.leed.cable.ntl.com) |
| 10:49.36 | timeless_mbp | if you never intend to use usb-mass-storage |
| 10:49.42 | timeless_mbp | then you can do what you like |
| 10:49.50 | timeless_mbp | (as long as the file system is supported) |
| 10:50.32 | supermaz | timeless_mbp: I know. I don't think I would need the interop functions |
| 10:50.39 | supermaz | All my systems here are running linux |
| 10:50.44 | timeless_mbp | ok :) |
| 10:51.15 | RST38h | Why not leave internal mmc as it is and play with external one instead? |
| 10:51.27 | RST38h | You can format it any way you like and if it breaks, just plug a new one |
| 10:51.28 | *** join/#maemo stv0 (n=steffen@dslb-084-058-199-163.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:51.31 | udovdh | internal mmc can be ext3 |
| 10:51.37 | udovdh | just need to get the module loaded |
| 10:51.47 | udovdh | which of course is not autogamic on my n810 |
| 10:51.52 | udovdh | automagic I mean |
| 10:51.56 | supermaz | udovdh: any other FS than FAT would do ;) |
| 10:52.05 | supermaz | could also use JFS2 or ext2 |
| 10:52.09 | udovdh | just mkfs.ext3 |
| 10:52.09 | RST38h | Will NTFS do? =) |
| 10:52.13 | RST38h | smiles sadistically |
| 10:52.16 | udovdh | HPFS! |
| 10:52.24 | qwerty12_N810 | BeFS |
| 10:52.29 | RST38h | TAR! |
| 10:52.32 | supermaz | I really missed the "linux" as it should be "any other _luin |
| 10:52.40 | supermaz | "any other _linux_ FS" |
| 10:52.46 | RST38h | Definitely TAR then. |
| 10:52.49 | *** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@79-66-25-128.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 10:52.55 | udovdh | gnu tar? |
| 10:53.04 | qwerty12_N810 | busybox tar |
| 10:53.05 | RST38h | gnu/linux tar! |
| 10:53.16 | udovdh | in papertape emulation mode? |
| 10:53.20 | supermaz | USB connection kills the N810 :( |
| 10:53.23 | RST38h | basically. |
| 10:54.05 | *** part/#maemo stv0 (n=steffen@dslb-084-058-199-163.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:54.11 | udovdh | but how to modprobe the modules automagically on n810? |
| 10:54.22 | pupnik | modprobe? |
| 10:54.27 | pupnik | alone |
| 10:54.32 | qwerty12_N810 | init.d script? *shrug* |
| 10:54.39 | RST38h | Linux people should really create their own character set with a little penguin as a character. |
| 10:54.59 | supermaz | udovdh: init script? |
| 10:55.03 | aquatix | RST38h: there is |
| 10:55.06 | aquatix | iirc |
| 10:55.07 | udovdh | why no autoloading? |
| 10:55.17 | RST38h | And then start an epic flame war trying to make everyone from Microsoft to SUN to include this character into their standard charsets |
| 10:55.17 | supermaz | RST38h: cherry .. linux keyboard |
| 10:55.25 | supermaz | has the pengiun instead of the windows symbol |
| 10:55.31 | udovdh | kewl |
| 10:55.40 | RST38h | I am not talking about the key. |
| 10:55.44 | udovdh | just two replacement caps will do |
| 10:55.47 | RST38h | I am talking about a character |
| 10:55.49 | udovdh | for this logitech |
| 10:56.04 | udovdh | unicode f00ff00f |
| 10:56.05 | udovdh | ? |
| 10:56.07 | RST38h | The one with a char code, not the one with a key cap |
| 10:56.15 | aquatix | a glyph ;) |
| 10:56.34 | RST38h | This war will be even greater than the OGG war! =) |
| 10:56.58 | RST38h | It will become the Famous War For The Open Source Character! |
| 10:58.09 | udovdh | who will step in and fix the issue? |
| 10:58.15 | supermaz | I so glad that there is VI on the basic distri on the N810! |
| 10:59.11 | aquatix | yep |
| 10:59.12 | aquatix | too |
| 10:59.16 | qwerty12_N810 | Maybe less so when you decide to find out that it links too... |
| 10:59.23 | qwerty12_N810 | s/that/what/ |
| 10:59.32 | qwerty12_N810 | -o |
| 10:59.32 | RST38h | qwerty: rm, I hope? |
| 10:59.38 | pupnik | ogg and flac are required for coolness |
| 10:59.52 | qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: worse. busybox. |
| 10:59.56 | pupnik | every bug does mp3 now |
| 11:00.01 | RST38h | pupnik: I have been watching a video encoded with ogg just now |
| 11:00.12 | RST38h | pupnik: It tends to freezer for several seconds every now and then |
| 11:00.27 | supermaz | qwerty12_N810: doesn't matter, at least it works like a VI |
| 11:00.29 | RST38h | + has problems rewinding + sometimes crashes the player |
| 11:00.33 | supermaz | maybe I install vim |
| 11:00.47 | pupnik | not quite like vi |
| 11:00.50 | RST38h | + subtitles are totally desynced, but I guess it is the result of freezing |
| 11:01.06 | pupnik | in mplayer RST38h ? |
| 11:01.19 | RST38h | pupnik: BSPlayer on Windows, latets codecs |
| 11:01.37 | aquatix | hm, has Tear development stopped a bit? |
| 11:01.44 | aquatix | or only in vcs? |
| 11:02.05 | supermaz | btw. what's the best browser on the N810? |
| 11:02.10 | qwerty12_N810 | aquatix: new release next month, and he doesn't like coding in "public" |
| 11:02.15 | aquatix | supermaz: Tear :) |
| 11:02.20 | aquatix | qwerty12_N810: ah, k |
| 11:02.24 | supermaz | is it webkit? |
| 11:02.28 | aquatix | supermaz: yep |
| 11:02.37 | supermaz | hm, I perefer mozilla |
| 11:02.37 | aquatix | quite up-to-date |
| 11:02.41 | RST38h | qwerty: We are already in the next month though =) |
| 11:02.42 | supermaz | I installed fennec |
| 11:02.45 | aquatix | and damn speedy in comparison to microb |
| 11:02.57 | supermaz | aquatix: Then I will try it out |
| 11:03.02 | RST38h | aquatix: not really, if you measure it |
| 11:03.06 | pupnik | "Definition of the alternatives is the supreme instrument of power" |
| 11:03.07 | supermaz | fennec doesn't seem to be too fast ;) |
| 11:03.11 | qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: good point, I was thinking from the last month :) |
| 11:03.14 | RST38h | aquatix: it is better but not much speedier |
| 11:03.17 | aquatix | qwerty12_N810: i wonder though, latest 0.3 should support copy/paste, but it doesn't here |
| 11:03.28 | aquatix | RST38h: it is here though |
| 11:03.35 | aquatix | loads pages quite a lot faster |
| 11:03.39 | RST38h | aquatix: do measure it with a timer though |
| 11:03.52 | aquatix | will do that next time |
| 11:03.56 | qwerty12_N810 | aquatix: grab gconf-editor and turn off /apps/osso/gtk/enable-accels while using tear |
| 11:03.58 | supermaz | aquatix: copy and paste would be really good! |
| 11:04.00 | RST38h | aquatix: my guess is that you will be unpleasantly surprised |
| 11:04.05 | RST38h | it does feel much much snappier though |
| 11:04.13 | supermaz | it seems the neither microB nor fennec support selection text on websites |
| 11:04.13 | *** join/#maemo rkirti_ (n=oespirit@117.254.9.11) |
| 11:04.21 | aquatix | RST38h: well, i like that feeling too |
| 11:04.31 | aquatix | so it's better for me anyway |
| 11:04.41 | aquatix | supermaz: microb does |
| 11:04.49 | aquatix | but you might need to double or triple click |
| 11:04.57 | aquatix | as normally it drags of course |
| 11:06.01 | supermaz | aquatix: Ah! Will try that! |
| 11:06.07 | RST38h | is just disappointed with Tear's kinetic scrolling. Gets stuck all the time =( |
| 11:06.11 | qwerty12_N810 | aquatix: gconftool /apps/osso/gtk/enable-accels -t bool -s false and then try copying and pasting from the address bar |
| 11:06.33 | qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: Bundyo said he wants to rewrite it - here's to hoping :) |
| 11:06.55 | qwerty12_N810 | Although, for me, the kinetic isn't bad |
| 11:07.14 | supermaz | aquatix: Yes, it is partly working |
| 11:07.40 | *** join/#maemo jophish (n=jophish@80-47-27-236.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) |
| 11:08.51 | *** join/#maemo javispedro (n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 11:09.02 | *** join/#maemo SHADOW_V (n=SHADOW_V@c-24-0-8-231.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 11:09.07 | aquatix | qwerty12_N810: yeah, i find it works fine mostly |
| 11:09.09 | supermaz | has anyone got maemo mapper running? |
| 11:09.17 | aquatix | need to stop it by hand now and then, but don't mind much |
| 11:09.41 | supermaz | or is there any usefull GPS application (free)? |
| 11:10.49 | javispedro | was the goodbye gtk party any good? |
| 11:10.51 | supermaz | why I asked for ext3 or something is that I might want to install apps on the mmc as the disk space of the root FS is not that much... |
| 11:11.47 | supermaz | and just another question to the devs: Is there a way to create new LED Patterns? |
| 11:12.04 | aquatix | hm, interesting; a GPS navigation application: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=18093 |
| 11:12.15 | qwerty12_N810 | supermaz: have a fun time looking through /etc/mce/mce.ini ;) |
| 11:12.22 | aquatix | supermaz: yeah, you can access the led from an application |
| 11:13.51 | ShadowJK | supermaz, there's stuff on the wiki about booting from SD :) |
| 11:14.09 | qwerty12_N810 | supermaz: http://www.google.com/notebook/public/08895672815650307022/BDSTgIgoQ3tW9iP0i and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=296703#post296703 |
| 11:14.53 | aquatix | is really curious to the next version of Tear |
| 11:15.15 | RST38h | has never seen magenta and yellow colors on his N810 LED btw |
| 11:15.27 | RST38h | Somebody should make a desktop toy for playing with them =) |
| 11:15.31 | aquatix | i think i saw magenta once |
| 11:15.33 | ShadowJK | hm, the LED isn't in /sys anywhere? |
| 11:15.36 | aquatix | RST38h: yeah |
| 11:15.38 | qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: http://sse2.net/ledcolor.py |
| 11:15.51 | qwerty12_N810 | ShadowJK: it is, somewhere |
| 11:15.54 | aquatix | wonders what happened to the version of load applet that flashed the led when taking a screenshot |
| 11:16.13 | ShadowJK | qwerty12_N810, that .py has the answer :) |
| 11:16.23 | qwerty12_N810 | aquatix: that was some dumb shit done by me, for you :P |
| 11:16.25 | qwerty12_N810 | :) |
| 11:16.31 | aquatix | ture |
| 11:16.33 | aquatix | *true |
| 11:16.38 | supermaz | qwerty12_N810: Already was in mce.ini ;) |
| 11:16.46 | aquatix | but i liked it better than the default behaviour |
| 11:16.50 | supermaz | qwerty12_N810: but not through, yet |
| 11:17.14 | kpel | does only the N810 have a multi-color LED? What about the N800? |
| 11:17.25 | ShadowJK | only N810 |
| 11:17.27 | qwerty12_N810 | aquatix: It used to segfault, but I was über lazy and did a system() |
| 11:17.29 | kpel | ok thakns |
| 11:17.37 | aquatix | qwerty12_N810: ah |
| 11:18.02 | RST38h | qwerty: oh yeah =) |
| 11:18.33 | qwerty12_N810 | wonders where jott did a houdini to anyway |
| 11:19.21 | aquatix | greener pastures? |
| 11:19.26 | aquatix | maybe he hangs in #mer now ;) |
| 11:19.28 | RST38h | qwerty: iPhone? |
| 11:19.35 | aquatix | apparently not |
| 11:19.45 | aquatix | or maybe android |
| 11:19.48 | qwerty12_N810 | heh |
| 11:19.50 | aquatix | just guessing here |
| 11:20.11 | wazd | http://s56.radikal.ru/i152/0907/7c/a5006f3e9734.png <- mouse icon for BlueMaemo |
| 11:20.47 | RST38h | photographic icon? Hmm |
| 11:21.07 | wazd | RST38h: well, it's drawn) |
| 11:21.29 | aquatix | looks slick |
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| 11:22.47 | RST38h | wow |
| 11:23.00 | RST38h | drawing photographic icons? =) |
| 11:23.17 | RST38h | suspects wazd will end up drawing anime or something in this manner =) |
| 11:23.30 | aquatix | has some requests then ;) |
| 11:24.39 | wazd | RST38h: nah, japaneese artists are really freaks. Their level of detail sends shivers down my spine every time |
| 11:27.17 | RST38h | wazd: unless you have seen this, try not to eat anything now: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%80%D1%8F%D0%B4 |
| 11:28.22 | ShadowJK | was that supposed to link to pictures? |
| 11:28.33 | aquatix | only sees a russian wikipage |
| 11:29.01 | RST38h | Shadow: there is a link to first-squad.com at the bottom |
| 11:29.19 | RST38h | And yes, the script is obviously written on a toadstool diet. |
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| 11:30.06 | wazd | RST38h: sick :D |
| 11:30.47 | RST38h | wazd: the idea to use soviet era patriotic crap for anime is pretty good though |
| 11:31.11 | supermaz | aquatix is only viewing hentai! |
| 11:31.27 | aquatix | supermaz: ah, you're monitoring your network! |
| 11:31.33 | RST38h | wazd: you get all the usual ingredients - good guys, bad guys, nazi uniforms, heave weaponry, repetitive self sacrifice |
| 11:31.46 | supermaz | aquatix: you only get what you need! |
| 11:31.55 | lbt | afternoon all |
| 11:32.04 | crashanddie | weird, I get a call from some number, try to call back, rings two times, and then i get a busy tone? |
| 11:32.18 | lbt | network issue? |
| 11:32.31 | lbt | mobile? |
| 11:32.32 | aquatix | or he/she is trying to call you again |
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| 11:32.48 | supermaz | crashanddie: or it is abusive |
| 11:32.55 | crashanddie | nha, I get two normal tones, then a busy tone |
| 11:33.04 | crashanddie | shouldn't I be bounced to voicemail or something rather than get a busy signal? |
| 11:33.16 | crashanddie | supermaz, abusive? |
| 11:33.20 | ShadowJK | maybe the called pressed the red button |
| 11:33.25 | wazd | RST38h: WWII with swords, guys on the horses and magic is sick anyway :D |
| 11:33.41 | wazd | lbt: hooah |
| 11:33.56 | ShadowJK | anyone watched Beyond the Clouds the Promised Place? |
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| 11:34.34 | lbt | I could do with a hand on a python/gtk issue ~ PyGtk for Mer |
| 11:34.53 | lbt | it seems to be related to ubuntu |
| 11:34.56 | wazd | and replacing R with Я is so childish :) |
| 11:35.00 | lbt | as the build works on Debian |
| 11:35.00 | aquatix | 13:06:11 qwerty12_N81 | aquatix: gconftool /apps/osso/gtk/enable-accels -t bool -s false and then try copying and pasting from the address bar |
| 11:35.13 | aquatix | qwerty12_N810: according to the gui it already is set to false |
| 11:35.26 | ShadowJK | Like stargate/stargåte ;) |
| 11:35.34 | wazd | I remember one game on the playstation one called CЯAZУ IVAР|
| 11:35.35 | qwerty12_N810 | aquatix: sliding the keyboard up will set it to true |
| 11:35.39 | qwerty12_N810 | lol |
| 11:35.42 | RST38h | wazd: That is where toadstools kick in =) |
| 11:35.47 | thopiekar | there is a big difference between a "r" and "ja", isn't it wazd? |
| 11:35.49 | thopiekar | :) |
| 11:36.06 | RST38h | wazd: But they really could do it cleanly, if they wanted to, and it would still work |
| 11:36.08 | wazd | thopiekar: oh :) |
| 11:36.18 | thopiekar | :P |
| 11:36.20 | aquatix | qwerty12_N810: i don't have it slide out |
| 11:36.56 | qwerty12_N810 | aquatix: ah, Tear sets it to false when first ran but sliding the keyboard up will set it to true |
| 11:37.17 | qwerty12_N810 | lbt: not a dist/site-packages thing? :) |
| 11:37.45 | lbt | nah... Codegen could not be found on your system and is required by the dsextras |
| 11:38.15 | lbt | http://pastebin.com/m4b0d9461 |
| 11:38.38 | aquatix | qwerty12_N810: sliding the keyboard out sets it to true, compacting again sets it to false |
| 11:38.39 | lbt | http://pastebin.com/d1819f909 |
| 11:38.41 | aquatix | here |
| 11:39.19 | aquatix | and indeed, starting tear sets it to false too |
| 11:39.49 | qwerty12_N810 | aquatix: true, but try ctrl-c, ctrl-v etc with the keyboard out in the address bar (making sure enable-accels is on) |
| 11:40.23 | aquatix | it works if i disable the checkbox for that setting |
| 11:40.32 | aquatix | when i've slided out the kb |
| 11:40.41 | aquatix | odd-ish |
| 11:40.44 | qwerty12_N810 | indeed ;) |
| 11:40.52 | pupnik | flv sucks ass. now youtube too slow on mplayer |
| 11:41.05 | pupnik | new |
| 11:41.43 | pupnik | ut try ctrl-c, ctrl-v etc with the keyboard out in the address bar (making sure enable-accels is on) |
| 11:41.49 | pupnik | this works now qwerty12_N810 ? |
| 11:41.59 | qwerty12_N810 | pupnik: nope |
| 11:42.05 | pupnik | grr |
| 11:42.28 | qwerty12_N810 | pupnik: ever tried Bundyo's build of mplayer rc2? |
| 11:42.34 | pupnik | no |
| 11:42.43 | pupnik | on talk.maemo? |
| 11:42.51 | qwerty12_N810 | It's an old build, granted, but it does play flvs better anyway |
| 11:42.53 | qwerty12_N810 | yep |
| 11:44.30 | pupnik | i have an idea. build a replacement back coverr for n810 with solar panel |
| 11:44.44 | pupnik | let it trickle in the sun |
| 11:44.48 | pupnik | while in sleep |
| 11:46.17 | kpel | samsung has done that with a phone |
| 11:46.41 | kpel | the problem is the effect of the heat (because of direct sun exposure) on the battery |
| 11:47.05 | RST38h | hm |
| 11:47.25 | ukki | qwerty12_N810: rbox mostly runs |
| 11:47.30 | kpel | we need insulation for the battery and on top of that a solar panel :) |
| 11:47.46 | ukki | few issues here and there, but nothing too serious it seems |
| 11:47.48 | qwerty12_N810 | ukki: woot, did you have to remove the osso & conic code? |
| 11:47.53 | ukki | yes |
| 11:49.19 | ukki | so if dosbox hits extras i promise to fix it completely |
| 11:49.26 | qwerty12_N810 | Had it crashing on you? :) |
| 11:50.33 | javispedro | ukki: I'm waiting to see where all the "dpad is not working" issue goes to |
| 11:51.24 | ukki | javispedro: the problem was most probably in rbox |
| 11:51.38 | qwerty12_N810 | ukki: If I can figure out ruby, I may be able to at least get an osso_initalize working |
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| 11:53.22 | javispedro | is trying to make nxagent shadow mode work on Xomap, but all he gets is a black screen |
| 11:53.31 | ukki | qwerty12_N810: seemed stable, only "crashes" were because the bindings are little different |
| 11:53.43 | qwerty12_N810 | ah |
| 11:53.56 | ukki | too few or many arguments mostly |
| 11:54.54 | aquatix | ah |
| 11:55.04 | aquatix | if i slide out the keyboard, then start Tear, it works |
| 11:55.21 | aquatix | because Tear setting enable-accels to false |
| 11:55.37 | aquatix | hm, how do i start Tear with some url? |
| 11:55.40 | aquatix | like, from claws-mail? |
| 11:56.56 | aquatix | hah, a beer festival in Herefordshire runs out of beer |
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| 11:57.21 | RST38h | aquatix: any rioting? =) |
| 11:57.49 | aquatix | not yet |
| 11:57.59 | aquatix | just read it on the BBC site |
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| 12:00.53 | aquatix | gone now |
| 12:01.00 | aquatix | have a nice Sunday everyone |
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| 12:25.38 | javispedro | incredibly enough nxagent seems to depend on chars being signed |
| 12:26.02 | javispedro | i've never known for sure |
| 12:26.08 | javispedro | are chars signed or unsigned xd |
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| 12:26.55 | RST38h | usually signed |
| 12:27.06 | RST38h | you have to define an unsigned char type for yourself |
| 12:27.10 | javispedro | so I borked my toolchain somehow |
| 12:27.26 | RST38h | never rely on the signedness of default char type |
| 12:27.43 | javispedro | I am not; X11 is :) |
| 12:28.01 | javispedro | " warning: comparison is always true due to limited range of data type", the comparison is (var >= 0) and var's type is "char" |
| 12:28.51 | RST38h | yea, this is wrong |
| 12:29.11 | javispedro | not X11, but nomachine's. |
| 12:32.02 | javispedro | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/docs/faqs/signedchar.php |
| 12:32.10 | javispedro | seems gcc on arm uses unsigned chars by default |
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| 12:32.30 | javispedro | so the problem is solved :) |
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| 13:56.12 | slonopotamus | johnx, ping |
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| 14:21.15 | riddlebox | is there some sort of app I can purchase for the n810 for gps, that will do routing to house numbers |
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| 14:29.27 | ShadowJK | wayfinder doesn't do it? |
| 14:31.28 | GeneralAntilles | punches lbt in the mouth for http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Status/N770 |
| 14:32.07 | derf | N? |
| 14:32.49 | ShadowJK | that too :) |
| 14:32.57 | GeneralAntilles | N770 is not a thing |
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| 14:34.55 | RST38h | General <-- a true wikipedian |
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| 14:42.05 | riddlebox | ShadowJK, wayfinder? |
| 14:42.29 | ShadowJK | the gps map application that comes bundled with N810 |
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| 14:45.39 | RST38h | once again curses x86 and its brainded instruction set |
| 14:46.00 | RST38h | shl reg,cl truncates cl to 5 bits |
| 14:46.13 | GeneralAntilles | I wish something could displace it on the desktop. |
| 14:46.20 | GeneralAntilles | mourns PPC. |
| 14:46.58 | RST38h | No way, x86 turned into a specialized embedded controller for running MS Office |
| 14:48.22 | derf | "Why use 1 instruction when 6 will do?" |
| 14:49.25 | RST38h | that I can live with, given that x86 instruction set has basically become a kind of vlc code, with older shorter instructions being used more often |
| 14:50.06 | derf | I typically have to use (x<<(y>>1))<<(y+1>>1) when y can be larger than the word size. |
| 14:50.07 | RST38h | But not being able to do straightforward universal things like shifts and conditional instruction execution is frustrating |
| 14:50.40 | RST38h | derf: You do not have to, C mandates that shift values >31 work |
| 14:50.54 | derf | RST38h: That's great. Too bad compilers don't respect that mandate. |
| 14:51.17 | ShadowJK | i thought arm was the only thing with conditional instruction execution |
| 14:51.34 | derf | ARM is most certainly not the _only_ thing with it. |
| 14:52.14 | derf | RST38h: Just be happy x86 has cmov now! |
| 14:52.27 | derf | On some chips it's even not abominably slow! |
| 14:53.57 | ShadowJK | avoid branches :) |
| 14:55.30 | riddlebox | dang 124 dollars for the wayfinder software |
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| 14:59.33 | RST38h | derf: Old compilers did not respect it but pretty much all new ones do |
| 15:01.09 | derf | No. They don't. |
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| 15:01.34 | RST38h | MSVC, gcc, Watcom do, and that is all I am concerned about |
| 15:02.30 | derf | Go compile http://pastebin.com/m59d8e68e on x86 and run it with, e.g., 5 32 as arguments. |
| 15:02.44 | RST38h | hehe |
| 15:03.16 | RST38h | is compiling the binary translator right now, with no end in sight |
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| 15:04.32 | derf | It really _would_ take 5 instructions per shift if gcc were to actually allow variable shift amounts larger than 5 bits. |
| 15:04.41 | derf | And they just don't do it. |
| 15:04.57 | RST38h | yea |
| 15:05.17 | RST38h | but you reall only need one check |
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| 15:05.50 | RST38h | so it would be cmp;cmov;shl |
| 15:05.54 | RST38h | 3 instructions |
| 15:06.09 | wazd | http://s48.radikal.ru/i119/0907/1e/7d150ac9f49d.jpg <- possible new look of Blue maemo :) Only first 2 icons are mine :( |
| 15:06.40 | RST38h | cooolio |
| 15:07.18 | RST38h | why not the full keyboard, or maybe 5 keys or so? |
| 15:08.15 | RST38h | derf: Now, if it only were PDP11 or VAX instruction set.... |
| 15:08.25 | RST38h | weeps silently |
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| 16:14.34 | RST38h | Ah, another itt thread |
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| 17:30.06 | skibur | what type of processor does the N800 have? |
| 17:30.14 | GeneralAntilles | OMAP2420 |
| 17:30.18 | GeneralAntilles | ARM11 |
| 17:30.26 | skibur | PPC? |
| 17:30.31 | skibur | not the same? |
| 17:30.35 | GeneralAntilles | Erm |
| 17:30.37 | GeneralAntilles | PowerPC? |
| 17:30.38 | GeneralAntilles | Ha |
| 17:30.44 | skibur | just checking |
| 17:30.45 | skibur | thanks |
| 17:30.49 | GeneralAntilles | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_OMAP |
| 17:30.54 | skibur | thanks |
| 17:30.57 | Dracie | :) ppc is a bit different |
| 17:31.43 | GeneralAntilles | Admittedly Freescale has been moving into that power segment. |
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| 17:49.50 | stelleg | anyone know if the kernel needs to be configured with initramfs? |
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| 18:11.38 | Luke-Jr | RST38h: Loongson is MIPS with extensions to accelerate qemu for x86 |
| 18:12.21 | Luke-Jr | supermaz: Konqueror > * |
| 18:12.38 | ShadowJK | though not all the Loongsoon CPUs are actually licensed MIPS :) |
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| 18:33.09 | Luke-Jr | ShadowJK: all the ones with the extensions are |
| 18:33.23 | ShadowJK | oh? |
| 18:33.36 | ShadowJK | I thought they only recently announced actually buying a MIPS license, for future CPUs :) |
| 18:33.49 | ShadowJK | They had been calling them "MIPS-like" until then |
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| 18:42.27 | Macer | blah |
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| 19:44.21 | radic | what are the correct steps if I think my rootfs is corrupt? |
| 19:44.33 | Luke-Jr | 1. panic |
| 19:44.55 | radic | Luke-Jr: ok, I'm in panic, and the next one? |
| 19:45.02 | Luke-Jr | 2. panic more |
| 19:45.27 | radic | Luke-Jr: panic wouldn't help me... |
| 19:45.31 | qwerty12_N810 | 3. get down and party |
| 19:45.56 | Luke-Jr | 4. upgrade to SmartQ |
| 19:46.04 | suihkulokki | aa |
| 19:46.24 | radic | hmm, I'll hope I can copy the syslogs to my sd-card... |
| 19:47.02 | Macer | anybody know what the cap is for tmob? |
| 19:47.03 | radic | hmm, who has a fan for my 19" switch? |
| 19:50.14 | ShadowJK | surely flashing would fix rootfs.. |
| 19:50.44 | radic | ShadowJK: but then all datas going to be lost |
| 19:51.05 | ShadowJK | yes |
| 19:51.30 | ShadowJK | Oh, now I see why the "panic" steps :) |
| 19:51.57 | radic | my device reboots, hangs up, reboots and so on... |
| 19:52.48 | Macer | Luke-Jr: you try a smartq yet? |
| 19:53.19 | Macer | i like it's size but the lack of the built in qwerty :) |
| 19:53.20 | radic | is there a way to user ext2 instand of jffs2? |
| 19:53.39 | radic | -r |
| 19:53.46 | ShadowJK | you can boot from SD |
| 19:54.08 | ShadowJK | but you can't run ext2 on the 256Mbyte internal flash |
| 19:55.04 | radic | givme the URL to the "how to boot from sd"-howto |
| 19:55.19 | qwerty12_N810 | ~boot-sd |
| 19:55.20 | infobot | boot-sd is, like, https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card |
| 19:55.45 | Macer | where the hell do you even buy a smartq? |
| 19:56.13 | Luke-Jr | Macer: online |
| 19:56.17 | lbt | Macer: http://eshopen.com/ |
| 19:56.39 | Macer | Luke-Jr: i know that :) |
| 19:56.39 | Macer | haha |
| 19:56.42 | Macer | but there aren't any major vendors selling it |
| 19:56.48 | Luke-Jr | sure there are |
| 19:56.59 | Macer | newegg and tigerdirect don't |
| 19:57.10 | lbt | Macer: the owner of ^^ shop donated stuff to Stskeeps for Mer IIRC |
| 19:57.10 | Luke-Jr | so? |
| 19:57.12 | Macer | i'm checking frys now |
| 19:57.23 | Luke-Jr | Macer: see lbt's lnk |
| 19:57.26 | Macer | lol. i donated Stskeeps an n800 |
| 19:57.27 | Macer | :) |
| 19:57.41 | Macer | i was trying to con him into giving hme his mer royalties |
| 19:57.49 | lbt | point is... he's legitimate and known to the community :) |
| 19:58.10 | Macer | i know. i was just joking with you |
| 19:58.50 | lbt | :P |
| 19:59.20 | lbt | GeneralAntilles: ouch |
| 20:00.36 | Macer | m $229.. not bad |
| 20:00.40 | Macer | is it any good though? :) |
| 20:00.57 | ShadowJK | I've ordered one :) |
| 20:01.01 | Macer | 800x480 |
| 20:01.02 | Macer | ? |
| 20:01.04 | Macer | ouch |
| 20:01.05 | Luke-Jr | wtf? |
| 20:01.08 | Luke-Jr | SQ is $134 |
| 20:01.22 | ShadowJK | Luke-Jr, the 7" model costs more :) |
| 20:01.29 | Luke-Jr | 7" model is also useless |
| 20:01.37 | ShadowJK | I don't think so |
| 20:01.38 | lbt | It is a bit plasticy compared to Nokia |
| 20:01.48 | Macer | smartq7 = $229 on this site |
| 20:02.03 | Vulcanis | what are the advantages of a smartq? |
| 20:02.04 | ShadowJK | it's not pocketable, but that's not how I use my nokia tablets anyway :) |
| 20:02.05 | lbt | ShadowJK: do you run Mer on your SmartQ ? |
| 20:02.07 | Vulcanis | and is it useable for typing? |
| 20:02.09 | Macer | it has a usb host? |
| 20:02.14 | ShadowJK | lbt, I ordered one but haven't received it yet |
| 20:02.19 | lbt | OK |
| 20:02.31 | ShadowJK | Whether I'll run Mer depends on how broken the default OS is :) |
| 20:02.34 | Macer | you can hook usb things up to it ) |
| 20:02.38 | lbt | I'm looking for an owner to help complete http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Status |
| 20:03.03 | Macer | BUT DOES the smartq have a stand? that's what is really important :) |
| 20:03.09 | lbt | no |
| 20:03.18 | lbt | plasticine |
| 20:03.28 | Luke-Jr | Vulcanis: SmartQ is open |
| 20:03.28 | lbt | or blu-tac |
| 20:03.29 | ShadowJK | I thought the 7 had a stand |
| 20:03.31 | ShadowJK | but i dunno |
| 20:03.51 | Luke-Jr | ShadowJK: default OS is Ubuntu |
| 20:05.35 | Vulcanis | luke: how good is the touchyness of the screen? |
| 20:05.57 | Macer | i fel like buying this smartq but i'm unsure |
| 20:05.57 | Macer | maybe i'll just get a macbook instad |
| 20:06.37 | Luke-Jr | Vulcanis: no clue |
| 20:08.28 | Vulcanis | does it look like a gameboy, or is this youtube video of the wrong thing |
| 20:08.38 | Vulcanis | what smartq is it |
| 20:08.47 | Vulcanis | oh, the 7 |
| 20:08.47 | Vulcanis | ok |
| 20:08.54 | Luke-Jr | 5 or 7? |
| 20:09.11 | Vulcanis | the 5 looks like a not mid |
| 20:09.24 | Vulcanis | nevermind |
| 20:09.40 | Vulcanis | hm, it actuallylooks pretty good |
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| 20:12.47 | Vulcanis | anyone know how fast the processor on the smartQ is? |
| 20:12.56 | crashanddie | where could I get the new top gear? |
| 20:13.31 | Luke-Jr | Vulcanis: ~600 MHz |
| 20:13.48 | Vulcanis | so its equal to the 3gs? |
| 20:13.57 | Vulcanis | any idea on how much ram it has? |
| 20:14.02 | Macer | not a macbook |
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| 20:14.03 | Luke-Jr | 128 MB AFAIK |
| 20:14.03 | Macer | i meant netbook :) |
| 20:14.07 | Vulcanis | oof |
| 20:14.11 | Macer | i already have a macbook that i want to get rid of |
| 20:14.16 | Vulcanis | so about half of what it needs :\ |
| 20:14.18 | Luke-Jr | Macer: get a Loongson netbook |
| 20:14.56 | Macer | wonder if i can install opensolaris on this smartq if i did get it |
| 20:15.14 | crashanddie | Macer, eh? |
| 20:15.17 | Macer | loongson? :) |
| 20:15.24 | crashanddie | Macer, opensolaris only works on x86 and sparc |
| 20:15.26 | Vulcanis | macer: you can install whatever has an ARM build |
| 20:15.27 | Luke-Jr | Macer: MIPS |
| 20:15.57 | Macer | don't think there is an arm build for opensolaris |
| 20:15.57 | Macer | damnit |
| 20:16.09 | Luke-Jr | make one |
| 20:16.12 | Vulcanis | make one |
| 20:16.13 | Vulcanis | hop to it |
| 20:16.25 | crashanddie | you can't |
| 20:16.31 | qwerty12_N810 | http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/osarm/announcements/#2009-06-08_First_release_for_ARM_platform |
| 20:16.43 | Vulcanis | http://www.slashgear.com/smartq-5-mid-gets-reviewed-let-down-by-poor-cpu-0640122/ |
| 20:16.48 | johnx | wow, that was fast Macer |
| 20:16.54 | johnx | nice job on the ARM build |
| 20:17.26 | Vulcanis | er, they're complaining about no flash support... |
| 20:17.31 | Vulcanis | but its ubuntu, so you can install it. |
| 20:17.43 | qwerty12_N810 | Vulcanis: it's also ARM :) |
| 20:17.52 | Vulcanis | qwerty12_N810: I thought there was a flash build for ARM? |
| 20:18.08 | crashanddie | Vulcanis, what do you think runs on the n8x0? |
| 20:18.12 | qwerty12_N810 | I thought only Nokia licensed it thus far? |
| 20:18.13 | crashanddie | qwerty12_N810, project is dead |
| 20:19.11 | crashanddie | qwerty12_N810, the last osarm release is nearly 3 months old... compared to OS being updated biweekly |
| 20:20.08 | johnx | it's from 8th of june 2009 I think |
| 20:20.33 | crashanddie | johnx, repo indicates still may build |
| 20:20.34 | Macer | hm |
| 20:20.52 | Macer | don't thnk that my phone is tethered nymore |
| 20:20.52 | Macer | heh |
| 20:21.08 | Macer | oh. guess it is |
| 20:27.03 | GAN800 | Vulcanis, ARM11 vs Cortex A8. Not comparable. The 3G S is about twice as fast as the SmartQ. |
| 20:27.38 | johnx | though it does depend on the specific task at hand |
| 20:28.14 | johnx | with heavyweight interfaces like X11/GTK X11/QT I'd say RAM is the biggest win |
| 20:28.28 | Macer | wasn't the 3GS burning people or something :) |
| 20:28.47 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 20:29.04 | Macer | and i'm still a little confused as to what the 3GS offers compared to the 3G |
| 20:29.14 | Macer | but i don't keep up with it much.. i hear it has a faster cpu and that's about it |
| 20:29.25 | johnx | more RAM I think, and a compass |
| 20:29.42 | johnx | and they turned on more features with the 3GS |
| 20:29.44 | qwerty12_N810 | MOAR SPEED!!! And a GPS and some other shit that has been in phones for years |
| 20:30.27 | GAN800 | Cortex A8, PowerVR SGX, compass, video, more RAM. |
| 20:30.42 | GAN800 | It's smooth as silk with that A8 |
| 20:30.43 | Macer | ah! a compass! |
| 20:30.43 | Luke-Jr | wtf is 3GS? |
| 20:30.45 | Macer | :) |
| 20:30.54 | johnx | basically the 3GS is an excuse for them to turn on features that could have been there since the original iPhone, but they've been holding back on so they didn't have to do any work to make "incremental improvements" |
| 20:30.59 | Macer | what do you mean "video" ? |
| 20:31.13 | Macer | like it has an mp4 decoder or something? |
| 20:31.25 | johnx | like it can record video |
| 20:31.27 | GAN800 | video recording, which is not a feature of either earlier model. |
| 20:31.37 | Macer | Luke-Jr: http://eshopen.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=13 |
| 20:31.40 | Macer | is that the one you got? |
| 20:32.06 | Macer | that thing is awesome |
| 20:32.13 | johnx | I'd like to bench the sheeva plug vs a beagle board actually :) |
| 20:32.29 | Macer | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:32.37 | Macer | oh wait. i was thinking of someone else. my bad |
| 20:32.37 | Macer | heh |
| 20:33.02 | Luke-Jr | Macer: that looks fail |
| 20:33.09 | Macer | Luke-Jr: no it doesn't |
| 20:33.12 | Macer | looks better than my artigo |
| 20:33.18 | Luke-Jr | Macer: nonsense, it's x86 |
| 20:33.30 | Macer | at least the cf / msd that boots is awesome :) |
| 20:33.34 | GAN800 | johnx, on average, the Beagle will kill it. |
| 20:33.49 | GAN800 | Depends entirely on what you're using it for. |
| 20:33.56 | johnx | exactly |
| 20:33.59 | Macer | Luke-Jr: heh. well. i have an artigo and it works nice |
| 20:34.04 | Macer | with opensolaris on it :) |
| 20:34.18 | Macer | it's about hte same size but uses an actual hdd instead of the cf or microsd |
| 20:34.22 | GAN800 | If there's anything involving 3D, DSP acceleration or SIMD. . . . |
| 20:34.46 | johnx | that's why I want to get one of each and see which is faster, I'm interested in real world results that actually stress things like memory and I/O bandwidth |
| 20:35.10 | GAN800 | I'd say the Beagle will probably still be faster overall. |
| 20:35.26 | GAN800 | Cache and such is much better on Cortex. |
| 20:35.53 | Luke-Jr | http://www.gdium.com/product/liberty1000 |
| 20:36.12 | *** join/#maemo saju (n=saju@68.83.181.74) |
| 20:36.13 | Luke-Jr | CPU 900 Mhz 64bits Loongson⢠2F by STMicroelectronics |
| 20:36.14 | Luke-Jr | RAM 512MB DDR2 |
| 20:36.15 | johnx | having a cortex in hand, it didn't always feel 2x faster, so I'd be interested in playing with an ARM11 that's actually clocked 3x faster |
| 20:36.38 | GAN800 | Sheeva is ARM9 |
| 20:36.49 | johnx | aaah, forgot about that |
| 20:36.55 | GAN800 | Luke-Jr, MIPS is the suck. |
| 20:36.56 | johnx | well, that makes it even more interesting |
| 20:37.10 | Luke-Jr | GAN800: no u |
| 20:37.32 | GAN800 | MIPS is like ARM11 x 0.5 |
| 20:37.58 | johnx | I like the magic numbers you ascribe to CPUs :) |
| 20:38.04 | johnx | let's call it the GANmark |
| 20:38.11 | Macer | wtf is STMicroelectronics |
| 20:38.11 | Macer | ? |
| 20:38.22 | *** part/#maemo johnx (n=john@c-24-22-234-163.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 20:38.24 | erik___ | it is a company that builds chips |
| 20:38.26 | *** join/#maemo johnx (n=john@c-24-22-234-163.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 20:38.34 | erik___ | there are a lot of ST chip in DVD players for instance |
| 20:38.43 | GAN800 | johnx, meh, averages are useful as averages. :) |
| 20:38.49 | Luke-Jr | there's a ST chip in N8x0 |
| 20:39.02 | GAN800 | Macer, they provide the WLAN chips in the tablets. |
| 20:39.05 | johnx | right, the PowerVR guys |
| 20:39.25 | Macer | GAN800: so incompatible cheap garbage? :) |
| 20:39.29 | Luke-Jr | hint: *ST*lc45xx |
| 20:39.37 | Luke-Jr | incompatible? |
| 20:39.39 | Macer | that is impossible to find src for drivers for? |
| 20:39.41 | GAN800 | Macer, er? |
| 20:39.42 | Luke-Jr | what's incompatible about it? |
| 20:39.47 | Macer | that are totally closed off and suck? |
| 20:39.55 | Luke-Jr | Macer: Linux has 2 fully open drivers for stlc45xx |
| 20:39.55 | Macer | just kidding. i'm reading up on it now :) |
| 20:40.48 | johnx | t-mo is making it really hard to give them money for inet access on my phone :/ |
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| 20:44.25 | milhouse | So now that Apple have switched hardware from ARM11 to Cortex-A8, have they dumped support for 3G and first gen owners? Just wondering... ;) |
| 20:45.00 | johnx | nah, cause they still want them to buy apps from the store |
| 20:46.08 | GAN800 | Apple's managed better support than Nokia so far. . . . |
| 20:46.28 | johnx | eh |
| 20:46.31 | milhouse | Not hard, really! |
| 20:46.53 | johnx | not so sure, the original iphone certainly has a complete bt chipset and they're definitely holding back support for it on purpose |
| 20:47.19 | johnx | also: mms |
| 20:47.52 | milhouse | The iPhone G1 had better GPS than an N810 too... without having a GPS chip! :) |
| 20:48.12 | lbt | .log him-arabic moved to gitorious |
| 20:48.24 | GAN800 | Hi, milhouse, by the way. :) |
| 20:48.25 | johnx | hey lbt :) |
| 20:48.31 | milhouse | Hi mate :) |
| 20:48.35 | lbt | 'lo johnx |
| 20:48.35 | Luke-Jr | milhouse: that's a software issue |
| 20:48.49 | milhouse | I know - not gonna be fixed either :( |
| 20:48.58 | lbt | d'oh this is #maemo |
| 20:49.33 | lbt | where've you been john? |
| 20:49.34 | milhouse | Luke: Sadly, an all too familiar situation where Maemo & Nokia is concerned |
| 20:49.36 | Luke-Jr | milhouse: it will if I have anything to say about it |
| 20:50.03 | milhouse | Luke: I wish you all the best, such a shame that Nokia are in denial about it |
| 20:50.36 | Luke-Jr | milhouse: more annoying is Stskeeps being in denial of it |
| 20:50.48 | GAN800 | :roll: |
| 20:51.03 | johnx | WAT |
| 20:51.11 | qwerty12_N810 | Luke-Jr: he's not Nokia: what do you expect him to do? |
| 20:51.16 | *** join/#maemo KurtKraut (n=ktk@unaffiliated/kurtkraut) |
| 20:51.30 | lbt | a monastery temple in Cambodia ? |
| 20:51.41 | GAN800 | Sts iz dumass |
| 20:51.52 | johnx | it's not a software issue anyways, it's a crappy chipset, with a piece of metal blocking it |
| 20:52.01 | Luke-Jr | qwerty12_N810: he has influence |
| 20:52.19 | johnx | and what did you want him to do? |
| 20:53.01 | milhouse | johnx: Another design fck up wouldn't suprise me - seems there is one in every tablet |
| 20:53.14 | johnx | yup :) |
| 20:53.14 | qwerty12_N810 | Luke-Jr: That "influence" is better spent on other things. The GPS sucks 20 dicks anyway |
| 20:53.18 | Luke-Jr | johnx: Nokia depends on Mer to support their products |
| 20:53.26 | Luke-Jr | Mer has influence to insist on things |
| 20:53.29 | johnx | no, they really don't |
| 20:53.33 | johnx | Mer is not a person |
| 20:53.34 | milhouse | johnx: I fully expect there to be a major achilles heel in the "Rover"... unfortunately. |
| 20:53.35 | glass | nokia doesn't depend on the product, so ha |
| 20:53.47 | johnx | milhouse, I suspect it might be battery life :/ |
| 20:54.42 | johnx | Luke-Jr, Nokia supporting Mer is a nice gesture, and above and beyond what they have to do |
| 20:54.42 | milhouse | johnx: I'm expecting another really crappy touchscreen myself, followed by p1ss poor video bandwidth... |
| 20:55.12 | johnx | I suspect that the touch screen will be just about the nicest that a resistive screen gets, backed by *killer* video bandwidth |
| 20:55.19 | johnx | and somewhat lackluster battery life |
| 20:55.19 | GAN800 | milhouse, bandwidth can't be an issue |
| 20:55.24 | qwerty12_N810 | milhouse: I don't think they're planning on being cheap bastards, taking parts from the bin this time :)£/ |
| 20:55.30 | qwerty12_N810 | -£/ |
| 20:55.37 | johnx | well, even so, the bin has nice parts in this case |
| 20:55.38 | milhouse | johnx: if they've learned *anything* from the last 3 tablets you'll be right |
| 20:55.42 | milhouse | crosses fingers |
| 20:55.45 | milhouse | oops |
| 20:55.46 | GAN800 | I suspect battery life will be more variable, but probably better overall. |
| 20:55.56 | Luke-Jr | johnx: so it's ok for them to just sell N8x0 while making it unusable? |
| 20:56.19 | johnx | GAN800, I suspect the pre can be used as a good test example of a omap3 in the wild |
| 20:56.47 | GAN800 | No, Pre is a clear software bug. |
| 20:56.55 | johnx | Luke-Jr, you're trying to say that one feature working not very well = unusable? |
| 20:57.10 | GAN800 | Compare to the 3G S, which tends to get slightly better battery life on average. |
| 20:57.20 | Luke-Jr | johnx: N810 is unusable out of the box |
| 20:57.25 | Luke-Jr | maybe it's a notepad that's about it |
| 20:57.30 | Macer | Luke-Jr: mips huh? :) |
| 20:57.47 | amr | can browse the internet just fine |
| 20:57.50 | milhouse | I'm prepared to believe them when they say the A8 will be more power efficient, I just hope they don't stick a battery with half the capacity of that in the N810 in the new device - that would be like shooting yourself in the foot. |
| 20:57.57 | Luke-Jr | amr: not really |
| 20:58.01 | amr | why not? |
| 20:58.05 | johnx | Luke-Jr, alright, whatever you say. it's unusable and we've all been hallucinating for the last year+ |
| 20:58.12 | qwerty12_N810 | I hate MicroB (believe me) but I wouldn't deem the N810 not capable of browsing the internet. |
| 20:58.14 | GAN800 | The OMAP3's powersaving is much more advanced than OMAP2. It uses slightly more power at full blast than an OMAP2, but significantly less at idle and near-idle. |
| 20:58.14 | Luke-Jr | amr: memory and Maemo bloat/slowness |
| 20:58.23 | amr | i manage it just fine |
| 20:58.25 | qwerty12_N810 | At least I can use it to download Tear. |
| 20:58.36 | johnx | Luke-Jr, you really like being on my ignore list, don't you? |
| 20:58.42 | amr | email is straightforward, although not painless |
| 20:58.47 | amr | and installing extra apps is stupidly easy |
| 20:58.58 | amr | i think unusable is a bit of a stretch |
| 20:59.01 | milhouse | GAN: Any idea what battery is likely to ship with the "Rover"? Bigger, smaller or same as N810? |
| 20:59.11 | johnx | amr, Luke-Jr is really good at stretching :) |
| 20:59.11 | milhouse | Madness if smaller :( |
| 20:59.23 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth_ (n=dforsyth@pool-74-96-67-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:59.30 | Luke-Jr | email is straightforward? wtf? |
| 20:59.37 | Luke-Jr | I could *never* get email on Maemo |
| 20:59.46 | johnx | it works for some people, and claws works for others |
| 20:59.52 | GAN800 | The leak the other month said something similar to what's in the 5800 (1360mAh or so), but other than that I don't know |
| 21:00.14 | Macer | Luke-Jr: the stock email client seemed to work well |
| 21:00.20 | Macer | i usually used claws tho |
| 21:00.40 | amr | my uni imap email works fine |
| 21:00.43 | Luke-Jr | Macer: I couldn't get it to work |
| 21:00.48 | amr | as does my gmail |
| 21:01.04 | milhouse | BP-4L in the N810 is 1500mAh - so smaller :( Typical decision by Nokia, gain on the one hand, lose on the other! |
| 21:01.16 | milhouse | (if true about the 5800) |
| 21:01.31 | GAN800 | yeah, rumors, so who knows. |
| 21:01.34 | johnx | well, if that's the design flaw in the rover then it's not too bad :) |
| 21:02.00 | GAN800 | I can't imagine them being so space starved as to justify it. |
| 21:02.21 | johnx | GAN800, :) |
| 21:02.34 | GAN800 | suspects the design flaw will be a phone that only really operates in landscape. |
| 21:02.42 | milhouse | LOL |
| 21:02.48 | qwerty12_N810 | N-Gage2k9 |
| 21:02.57 | johnx | GAN800, probably for fremantle, yes |
| 21:03.10 | Macer | guess i'll watch lois and clark |
| 21:03.14 | Macer | never seenit |
| 21:03.17 | GAN800 | fears Fremantle is going to be Maemo's Newton 100 |
| 21:03.25 | Macer | GAN800: haha |
| 21:03.28 | Macer | of course it is :) |
| 21:03.38 | GAN800 | Establish a platform stigma they'll never get past. |
| 21:04.28 | johnx | I think as long as all the fremantle devices run harmattan just fine, and as long as this "community supported gtk+" really shows up on harmattan |
| 21:04.42 | milhouse | I think Nokia are unsure about Symbian or Linux... Symbian seems to be going nowhere (even if there is the Symbian Foundation - Nokia seem to have unrealistic ideas about the open source community and what they can achieve) so Linux might be the new hope for Linux... which means Maemo... and on the basis of the previous releases I think thats a very big risk |
| 21:04.44 | johnx | if either of those fail to appear, than yeah, it could be painful for them |
| 21:05.27 | johnx | I'm just starting to get tired of them moving the goal posts *sigh* |
| 21:06.01 | milhouse | I went and took a look at the Symbian Foundation web site the other day - you have to register because it's in "Beta" mode... has been in "Beta" mode since at least March if not before... sounds terribly familiar. |
| 21:06.35 | wazd | milhouse: gmail is in beta since 1864 :) |
| 21:06.56 | milhouse | True, but that's worth registering for! :) |
| 21:07.17 | milhouse | Serious question: What is the opinion of Internet Tablet Talk now that it has moved to Maemo? I have to admit I can't stand it |
| 21:07.24 | Luke-Jr | same |
| 21:07.38 | johnx | I can't stand the people on it constantly kvetching about it |
| 21:07.56 | wazd | any vBulletin wizards in here btw?) |
| 21:08.04 | qwerty12_N810 | milhouse: still the same as ever, imho, internettablettalk.com still works and there's the classic skins |
| 21:08.29 | milhouse | It's not the content but the look & feel - what was wrong with keeping a vBulletin layout? This mad doctrine to make everything look the same is ridiculous, didn't work so well for the Wiki, certainly doesn't work for the forum |
| 21:08.42 | johnx | though the signal/noise ratio has dropped below the level I feel like dealing with :/ |
| 21:08.51 | milhouse | qwerty: Ah, does it? I just get the horrible Maemo "theme" |
| 21:08.56 | wazd | I've made a small concept for t.m.o.lite, but I can't code |
| 21:08.58 | wazd | http://s53.radikal.ru/i141/0907/66/8bc722b64d7a.png |
| 21:09.43 | johnx | that looks pretty close to the one they have actually |
| 21:10.03 | qwerty12_N810 | milhouse: Sure, look at the bottom-left corner, there's a drop-down with "Classic Light" and "Classic Dark" - but I don't know if you're required to be logged in to change |
| 21:10.11 | milhouse | qwerty: That URL redirects to talk.maemo.org when clicking on the Forum link :( |
| 21:10.34 | wazd | well, it shows unread topics and you can go to the last post right from the main page |
| 21:10.36 | milhouse | qwerty: Aha! You Sir are a lifesaver! :) |
| 21:10.56 | wazd | johnx: current minimalistic theme does nothing |
| 21:11.16 | milhouse | Jeez, they should make one of those the default and ditch the talk.maemo.org theme |
| 21:11.32 | milhouse | GAN: Maybe a nice simple one for the Brainstorm? :) |
| 21:11.48 | milhouse | "Make Classic Dark the default Talk theme" |
| 21:15.45 | GAN800 | :( |
| 21:16.00 | GAN800 | I like the t.m.o theme. and the wiki theme. |
| 21:16.24 | GAN800 | milhouse, if you bring up the theme nonsense again I'll eviscerate you. :) |
| 21:16.30 | milhouse | sob :( |
| 21:16.31 | GAN800 | Just, fyi. |
| 21:16.43 | milhouse | OK ;) |
| 21:16.48 | GAN800 | There's been more than enough idiocy surround THAT topic. |
| 21:17.10 | milhouse | At least there is a way around it, so I'm happy - hadn't noticed it down the bottom of the page though |
| 21:17.35 | GAN800 | The SNR on the whole community is pretty bad these days. |
| 21:17.44 | milhouse | Hey, where would Maemo be if we didn't spend all our time moaning about the web site? |
| 21:17.57 | milhouse | I mean, that is THE most important thing at the end of the day |
| 21:17.58 | milhouse | :) |
| 21:18.01 | GAN800 | milhouse, the theme options have been there since 2005. ;) |
| 21:18.30 | milhouse | Yes, but I hadn't noticed them on the new Maemo version - I didn't even think to look, assuming it was one theme and that was it! |
| 21:18.44 | wazd | milhouse: I don't spend time moaning bout themes cause it's useless :) |
| 21:19.03 | GAN800 | It's a pretty theme if you give it a chance. |
| 21:19.13 | milhouse | Careful or you'll be eviscerated! |
| 21:20.03 | milhouse | GAN: I'll have to disagree with you, mainly because the black text in the white "bubbles" is too big and it just doesn't "feel" like a forum |
| 21:20.16 | milhouse | but as there's an option to change it, that's fine with me |
| 21:20.43 | *** join/#maemo radic (n=radic@ip-77-25-27-138.web.vodafone.de) |
| 21:21.15 | wazd | all this orange stuff annoys me so much, but I got used to it after some time |
| 21:21.35 | milhouse | Thank god I'm not a Catholic or I might be offended :) |
| 21:21.43 | milhouse | Too much Orange! |
| 21:22.21 | Luke-Jr | milhouse: ⦠|
| 21:22.40 | milhouse | All I see is a little square... |
| 21:23.23 | GAN800 | milhouse, by the way, the Summit's in October. Plan for it. :P |
| 21:23.52 | milhouse | OK - what date? I'm in Greece for a wedding 9th to 15th |
| 21:24.15 | milhouse | Never mind, the wedding is in September! |
| 21:25.52 | GAN800 | Weekend of the 11th |
| 21:26.16 | wazd | VDVsx: ping? |
| 21:26.23 | VDVsx | pong |
| 21:26.47 | wazd | oh :) |
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| 21:37.14 | Macer | lois and clark isn't that good |
| 21:38.04 | Macer | let me try out deadwood |
| 21:47.34 | Macer | Luke-Jr: you still around? |
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| 21:50.17 | *** join/#maemo Firebird (n=Firebird@pool-138-88-254-162.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 21:51.48 | Luke-Jr | no |
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| 21:58.58 | Macer | Luke-Jr: that gdium hasn't been released yet? |
| 21:59.04 | Macer | i'm looking for a place to buy one |
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| 22:06.59 | ShadowJK | it's released |
| 22:07.13 | ShadowJK | but i havent seen anywhere online to get it |
| 22:08.23 | ShadowJK | gdium is kinda odd anyway |
| 22:08.42 | ShadowJK | and the other one is kinda meh |
| 22:08.54 | Luke-Jr | Macer: afaik, you can only get it via OLPH |
| 22:09.04 | Macer | well |
| 22:09.05 | Macer | This item has not yet been released. |
| 22:09.16 | Macer | amazon says it hasn't been released yet.. BUT.. i don't think i want it because of that gkey shit |
| 22:09.23 | Macer | it boots off usb and uses it as its os |
| 22:09.33 | Macer | if they used esata instead it would be worth it |
| 22:09.45 | Macer | but not a usb2 drive for booting/os |
| 22:09.47 | ShadowJK | they have a gallery page with pcitures of it being sold in belgium or something... |
| 22:09.48 | Luke-Jr | hrm |
| 22:09.59 | Luke-Jr | Macer: build one with eSATA plz |
| 22:10.32 | ShadowJK | esata vs usb2 isn't going to be much of a difference for OS use on a slow ssd :) |
| 22:12.52 | Luke-Jr | ShadowJK: USB eats CPU time |
| 22:12.57 | Luke-Jr | eSATA, dunno, hope not |
| 22:13.08 | Luke-Jr | but SATA is kinda suspicious to me because of that |
| 22:13.15 | Luke-Jr | PATA had DMA.. what does SATA have equivalent? |
| 22:13.22 | Luke-Jr | or does it just presume CPU time to waste? |
| 22:14.35 | ShadowJK | the only reason "dma" was mentioned in context of pata is because there was a time long ago when computers had real isa busses and ata had no dma |
| 22:15.17 | ShadowJK | sata has pio and dma and the driver uses a mix dependig on what it's doing |
| 22:15.31 | ShadowJK | and controller capabilities vary |
| 22:17.06 | ShadowJK | anyway, for application responsiveness the ssd/gkey is going to be the bottleneck, not its transfer bus even if it sat on usb1.1 :) |
| 22:18.47 | Luke-Jr | ShadowJK: applications run in memory, not disk |
| 22:20.53 | ShadowJK | yes but the OS does ondemand pagein p |
| 22:21.26 | ShadowJK | if you've got huge amounts of ram you could just read in your apps sequentially |
| 22:21.33 | ShadowJK | and all would be good |
| 22:21.53 | ShadowJK | but in practice load times are a bunch of random I/O |
| 22:22.13 | ShadowJK | interleaved with a few small random writes |
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| 22:23.13 | *** join/#maemo tomaterr (n=tomaterr@adsl-99-147-148-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:23.33 | tomaterr | has any1 dealt with nokia rma stuff before? |
| 22:23.54 | ShadowJK | there are about 2 SSD models in existence that isn't slower at that than harddrives, and the situation is worse for memory cards and usb flash drives :) |
| 22:24.20 | Macer | Luke-Jr: heh |
| 22:24.22 | Macer | i wish i could |
| 22:24.32 | Macer | i was interested in that thing until i saw that crap :) |
| 22:24.44 | Macer | maybe i can find an arm netbook |
| 22:25.25 | ShadowJK | touchbook is probably only one with >128m ram |
| 22:25.45 | Macer | touchbook? |
| 22:25.46 | Macer | heh |
| 22:26.08 | ShadowJK | a search on tmo will find it |
| 22:26.42 | Macer | Cortex-A9 is the multicore sister to Cortex-A8, and is likely to go into use around 2010. |
| 22:26.50 | ShadowJK | and google, too :) |
| 22:26.50 | Macer | yeah. i'm looking for an arm based netbook now |
| 22:27.43 | ShadowJK | I'm not as optimistic as 2010 :) |
| 22:27.50 | *** part/#maemo ukki (n=solmis@mikkeli.wsoy.fi) |
| 22:28.06 | Macer | heh |
| 22:28.18 | Macer | that is an awkward looking netbook |
| 22:28.21 | Macer | the touchbook that is |
| 22:28.44 | ShadowJK | eh? it looks like a laptop with detacheable screen? |
| 22:28.57 | Macer | yeah |
| 22:29.04 | Macer | that's what i meant ;) |
| 22:29.09 | Macer | does the screen detatch? |
| 22:29.24 | ShadowJK | so if you dont remove the screen... it looks like a netbook? |
| 22:29.36 | Macer | i guess |
| 22:29.36 | Macer | heh |
| 22:30.14 | ShadowJK | and if you detach the screen you have a largeish tablet ;) |
| 22:30.41 | Macer | actually |
| 22:30.48 | Macer | it looks from their site that it flips behind the screen |
| 22:30.55 | Macer | and you use it like a tablet when not using the keyboard |
| 22:31.14 | ShadowJK | atleast at some point they said it was detacheable |
| 22:31.16 | wazd | nini maemo :) |
| 22:31.23 | Macer | looks pretty awesome |
| 22:31.43 | ShadowJK | ..and you can still order it without keyboard part I think |
| 22:31.44 | Macer | yeah it looks like it is.. i'm reading the info now |
| 22:31.50 | Macer | http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/ |
| 22:31.53 | ShadowJK | but theyre not shipping yet anyway.. |
| 22:32.02 | Macer | damnit :) |
| 22:32.27 | Macer | iat uses fennec? |
| 22:32.29 | Macer | fail |
| 22:32.31 | Macer | heh |
| 22:32.38 | Macer | omap3 |
| 22:32.52 | Macer | it's a damn larger n810 |
| 22:32.59 | ShadowJK | i think theyd be first netbook with cortex A8...so from that I extrapolate A9 netbooks appearing >1 year from A9 beagleboards which we havent seen yet :) |
| 22:33.02 | Macer | with a detatchable keyboard and larger screen haha |
| 22:33.44 | ShadowJK | twice the ram and 2x the cpu speed or something too |
| 22:33.57 | Macer | heh |
| 22:34.02 | ShadowJK | 2-3x |
| 22:34.12 | Macer | what os is this supposed to run? |
| 22:34.15 | Macer | MER?? |
| 22:34.17 | Macer | hehehe |
| 22:34.41 | ShadowJK | mer probablh already runs on it |
| 22:34.49 | Macer | Q. Which OS is installed on the Touch Book? |
| 22:34.50 | Macer | A. The Touch Book will ship with the Touch Book OS by default. Since the Touch Book has been designed with the help of a vibrant open source community that believes in diversity, you can install many other OSes, including Google Android, Ubuntu, Angstrom, and Windows CE. You are free to do whatever you want. |
| 22:35.07 | Macer | i'm a little iffy about anything that says it will be using fennec :) |
| 22:35.18 | Macer | my experience with fennec on the n800 was a horrible one |
| 22:35.32 | amr | what apps do the cool kids recommend? |
| 22:35.39 | amr | im loving ines atm |
| 22:36.21 | ShadowJK | Macer you know touchbook is probably like N900 without the cellphone pieces and the tiny screen... |
| 22:36.27 | Macer | ShadowJK: the internal usb sounds interesting |
| 22:36.38 | Macer | ShadowJK: that's fine as long as the wifi can do adhoc |
| 22:36.50 | Macer | it would be nice to have openoffice for it also |
| 22:36.51 | Macer | :) |
| 22:37.00 | ShadowJK | hm, I wonder of n8x0 can adhoc |
| 22:37.09 | Macer | but fennec scares me.. maybe i can install opensolaris on it when an arm port is a little more mature |
| 22:37.15 | Macer | ShadowJK: it can |
| 22:37.18 | Macer | i've done it ;) |
| 22:37.33 | Macer | i used to adhoc tether my n800 to my g1 |
| 22:37.37 | Macer | worked like a champ |
| 22:37.46 | *** join/#maemo kkrusty (n=cache@5ac02095.bb.sky.com) |
| 22:38.09 | Macer | hm. touchbooks are supposed to be shipping arleady |
| 22:38.14 | Macer | already.. they say "this summer" |
| 22:38.16 | *** join/#maemo simon_ (n=simon@cpe90-146-223-204.liwest.at) |
| 22:38.25 | Macer | then again i suppose it is the middle of the summber.. it looks like an awesome machine though |
| 22:38.29 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (n=crashand@SecuraBit/listener/crashanddie) |
| 22:38.33 | ShadowJK | they have a page with current status somewhere |
| 22:38.50 | ShadowJK | originally it said early summer.. |
| 22:38.58 | Macer | $399 |
| 22:39.00 | Macer | that isn't bad at all |
| 22:39.10 | ShadowJK | yeah |
| 22:39.16 | Macer | if you get it with the keyboard it is 399.. 299 without |
| 22:39.25 | Macer | ok. i'm sold :) |
| 22:39.36 | Macer | although i would like to run debian on it |
| 22:39.42 | ShadowJK | i'd be seriouslyh tempted if it wasnt in pandora-stage of the cycle :) |
| 22:39.57 | Macer | pandora-stage? |
| 22:40.40 | ShadowJK | vapourware, i wont believe it exists yet ;P |
| 22:40.56 | Macer | # Two internal batteries 6000 and 12000 mAh â it can be replaced with a screw driver |
| 22:41.02 | Macer | haha |
| 22:41.10 | Macer | that's different. i like the internal usb too |
| 22:42.34 | ShadowJK | "We intend to start shipping the Touch Book next month, in July 2009. Our first batch of Touch Books is already in production." |
| 22:42.53 | Macer | ShadowJK: yeah i agree with you |
| 22:43.02 | Macer | but once i see some being sold i will buy one :) |
| 22:43.12 | Macer | it looks like an amazing device after reading all the stuff over |
| 22:43.20 | Macer | i though my popcornhour was a scam |
| 22:43.25 | Macer | but then i got it and was very happy with it |
| 22:43.58 | Macer | # OpenOffice 3.1 |
| 22:43.59 | Macer | # A full Adobe Flash solution |
| 22:44.08 | Macer | heh. it is like they read my mind :) |
| 22:44.33 | *** join/#maemo ablack_ (n=ablack@209.206.154.162) |
| 22:44.50 | ShadowJK | "solution" |
| 22:44.55 | *** join/#maemo simon_ (n=simon@cpe90-146-223-204.liwest.at) |
| 22:45.05 | ShadowJK | that probably means gnash :) |
| 22:45.23 | ShadowJK | sleeps |
| 22:46.54 | Macer | haha |
| 22:46.56 | Macer | good night |
| 22:46.58 | Macer | but thanks for the info |
| 22:47.06 | Macer | once it comes out and actually gets sold i am going to scoop one up |
| 22:47.18 | Macer | it looks pretty awesome.. at the very least better than an n800 |
| 22:47.26 | Macer | if it can print then i'm sold for sure |
| 23:03.55 | *** part/#maemo kkrusty (n=cache@5ac02095.bb.sky.com) |
| 23:06.37 | Macer | ShadowJK: those pics in the gallery look fake |
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| 23:34.01 | mavhc | nokia android phone? weird |
| 23:35.23 | johnx | hmm? |
| 23:36.47 | mavhc | http://bit.ly/tola6 |
| 23:37.40 | johnx | "is understood to be" |
| 23:38.06 | johnx | citing no sources? I bet they just got confused and thought linux = linux and maemo = android |
| 23:38.50 | mavhc | this is a newspaper, not wikipedia, doesn't have to be reliable |
| 23:39.04 | johnx | fine, then I donn't trust it :) |
| 23:39.16 | mavhc | they only have journalists, not experts |
| 23:39.32 | johnx | usually newspapers at least cite "someone close to nokia" or "a source familiar with nokia" |
| 23:39.34 | mavhc | apparently anyone can't edit it and fix mistakes |
| 23:40.04 | mavhc | maybe it's a NOKLA phone |
| 23:40.21 | johnx | heh with the andro1d OS! |
| 23:41.52 | mavhc | half gnews reports say it's a netbook, half a phone |
| 23:43.00 | mavhc | so apparently android is only free as in speech, not free as in culture |
| 23:43.09 | johnx | and it will run mac os 7 and have a forehead mounted haptic feedback device |
| 23:44.03 | mavhc | oddly no |
| 23:46.15 | johnx | it's hilarious how "analysts" and "journalists" don't get called out more often for making random shit up, doing no fact checking and saying things like "it's understood that ..." |
| 23:48.12 | mavhc | I only trust wikipedia |
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