IRC log for #maemo on 20090512

00:08.06b-man~burn the world
00:08.07infobotACTION pours gasoline all over the world, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze
00:08.07b-maninfobot!
00:08.07b-man-_-
00:11.58b-man<PROTECTED>
00:12.00b-manlol
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00:59.43Shadow__Xcan carman get the fuel econ
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01:03.02b-man
01:03.16xnt14omfg :P xD
01:03.45b-mandid you meet mtc yet? lol
01:03.51xnt14yup
01:04.12b-manare you interested?
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01:06.22GeneralAntillesShadow__X, how do you propose? ;)
01:06.47GeneralAntillesMost cars don't have flow gauges
01:09.08Shadow__XGeneralAntilles, by the computer
01:09.22Shadow__Xhttp://www.scangauge.com/
01:10.40GeneralAntillesShadow__X, what information from the computer are you planning on using? :)
01:10.58Shadow__Xi just want the fuel economy of my car
01:11.11Shadow__Xscangauge can do it and wondered if carman could
01:11.17GeneralAntillesThe values needed to calculate that aren't available from the OBD-II
01:11.20Shadow__Xi mean it should be able to
01:11.31Shadow__Xthen why can scan guage 2 do it
01:13.15GeneralAntillesMaybe it's having you enter additional values manually?
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01:14.40Shadow__Xi dont think so i am pretty sure you can figure out the values with just by using the cars computer
01:14.48Shadow__Xodb2 should give you a wealth of info
01:15.20GAN800Not enough, though
01:15.31Shadow__Xeverything could do more
01:15.40Shadow__Xhttp://www.scangauge.com/support/horsepower.shtml
01:16.49Shadow__Xhttp://www.scangauge.com/features/tripcomputer.shtml
01:16.57Shadow__Xit gives enough info for atleast that
01:17.33GAN800Talk to the Carman devs. There IS a reason.
01:17.55Shadow__Xis there a carman room
01:17.56Shadow__X?
01:18.23Shadow__Xi rather use carman with my n810 but if am leaning towards the scangauge
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05:00.22torkianohello, I get this error when autogen.sh: Makefile.am:7: HAVE_GNOME_DOC_UTILS does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL
05:00.40torkianoin scrachbox
05:01.13torkianoin Ubuntu my applications compiles without problems
05:04.24torkianocan anyone help me?
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05:08.54RST38hsuggests against using autoconf
05:09.11RST38hNo autoconf -> no problem
05:11.00Stskeepsi'm with RST38h on that one:P
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05:37.03torkianoRST38h, Stskeeps :)
05:37.26torkianoprobably, but is not my decission :(
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05:47.27RST38htorkiano: then add that crap to the .am file, similarly to the crap that is already there
05:50.40torkianoRST38h, Similar to this: http://pastebin.com/m1032f564 ?
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05:55.09RST38htorkiano: no, I think you have just pasted code that processes this define
05:55.19RST38htorkiano: while autogen complained about the define itself
05:55.44RST38hanyways off to work. it has been a painfully long weekend.
05:56.00torkianoRST38h, mmm, yes, you are rigth.
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05:56.53torkianoDo you know how can I add HAVE_GNOME_DOC_UTILS to the AM_CONDITIONAL?
05:57.01torkianois in congigure.ac file?
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06:20.46Stskeepsphew.
06:21.13fireunit wasnt me
06:21.31Stskeepshehe
06:22.53thuxmorning
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08:57.48X-Fadeoh phone oh? :)
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08:59.10lcukfireun, yes it was
08:59.32lcukmornin X-Fade Stskeeps \o
08:59.43X-FadeHi lcuk.
09:01.21X-Fadehttp://maemo.org/news/announcements/intel_and_nokia_announce_the_ofono_project/
09:01.26lcukniels, supposing i wanted to start to manage a number of packages on garage, do i have to register each of them at the moment, i know some things are changing re .git stuff
09:01.35lcukyeah i saw that, looks very interesting :)
09:02.01lcukit was only a couple of years ago lots were saying there wouldnt be an OSS telephony stack like that
09:02.09X-FadeI wonder if we could use that to send SMS messages through the modem of the RX51? :)
09:02.56lcukdunno, i still no nothing about networking in general
09:03.04lcuki wish phones responded to normal ping :D
09:03.09X-Fadelcuk: Well you can create a project on garage where you just put all your application in one git?
09:03.33lcukive got that, im just sorting out and organising things
09:03.39lcukbut i dont really want everything in one place
09:04.03lcukbecause now i can run liq* modules completely standalone, i could theoretically just release each tiiny project one at a time
09:04.29X-Fadelcuk: But does it really make sense to have them all seperate?
09:04.33lcukthey are still bundled together at this point mainly so i can fixup bugs and make sure i can handle everything
09:04.42lcukin some respects yeah x-fade
09:04.58lcuka common question from people were "i want the book reader, but dont want xyz"
09:05.05X-FadeOne can always check out one specific folder?
09:05.09lcukothers said i love the sketching etc
09:05.22lcukwell thats tricky and they cant have a menu item
09:05.26StskeepsX-Fade: you can't check out subtrees in git
09:05.46Stskeepsthat's one of the reasons why i requested multiple git repos per project :)
09:05.52X-FadeStskeeps: Well yeah, source code. But you can build a specific subfolder if you want?
09:05.53lcukive written this to allow people top run standalone stuff as well if they desire, but its obviously nicer running the whole thing :)
09:06.18lcukoh yeah x-fade, folders are on their own
09:06.21StskeepsX-Fade: well you can't say have a repository with directories a b c and then only check out a
09:06.24X-FadeStskeeps: It is not like liqbase is kernel sized ;)
09:06.26lcukbut suppose a dev wants to help out with the book reader
09:06.42lcukdo they need to checkout the whole thing including skethcing and library and everything..
09:06.50lcukX-Fade, not yet :)
09:06.56X-Fadelcuk: How long does a pull take? 3 secs? :)
09:07.07lbtQt is a single project...
09:07.08lcukbut when 30 or 40 or 50 complete full apps exist inside
09:07.13RST38hmore stuff = more mess
09:07.22lcukagreed rst
09:07.23RST38hso yea, separate apps are good
09:07.29lcukX-Fade, its 60mb
09:07.31X-Fadebut also more time to manage.
09:07.39RST38hX-Fade: Not really
09:07.40lcukyes X-Fade
09:07.46X-FadeAnd to track changes you need to look at every repo.
09:08.03lcukbut on the same tune if/once this takes off other apps will come from completely outside the core stuff im playing with
09:08.05RST38hX-Fade: From lcuk's point of view it is all one thing but from developer's point of view only his/her app exists + the liqbase common lib
09:08.06X-FadeAnd sharing common code is harder.
09:08.08lcukis proving a concept
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09:08.34lbtthinks a single project makes more sense until you have a published and stable API
09:08.36RST38hCode sharing shouldbe controlled anyway
09:08.39lcukX-Fade - does a developer need to download the full GTK library source just to develop a GTK app
09:08.39X-Fadelcuk: How would you track dependencies between the libs and the code?
09:08.44RST38hUnless you want to end up with another GNOME or KDE
09:08.47lcukagreed lbt
09:09.12lcuki was just pondering out loud howit might be done iwth the infrastructure we have
09:09.30X-FadeI'm always for the point, let's see when we get there.
09:09.33lcukRST38h, code sharing is best when its just the library and specific dependencies
09:09.40X-FadeBut I guess that is me ;)
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09:10.01X-FadePermature optimizing is the root of all evil..
09:10.06lbtdoes apt-get install liqbase-dev work?
09:10.45lcuknot yet i was gonna try to make a meta package last night to do that
09:10.56lbtplus... it's easy to take a git tree with multiple subdirs and break it up
09:11.19lbtand you can experiment inside a tree too
09:11.36lcukyeah its coming into shape quite nicely, but before i start running i obviously want to cleanup and know which direction each little module will take
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09:13.22lcuklbt, do you get commit messages from my server
09:13.33lbtno
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09:14.27lbtI think the real answer is multiple git repos per project ;)
09:14.27lcukmm maybe you had to signup lol, ive been a busy beaver recently
09:14.40lcuk1 repo per project
09:14.48lcukbut multiple repos for the whole thing
09:15.25lcuko_O can i just carry on writing into single head principle repo but have it update the other sub repos at same time
09:16.23lcukcrap, gotta go, bbl ta for chat guys \o
09:16.31lbthttp://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/howto/using-merge-subtree.html
09:16.58lbtmay be an answer when we have multiple gits per project
09:18.23lbtor http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-submodule.html
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09:44.36RST38hlcuk: What is the problem anyway?
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09:45.17RST38hlcuk: Why not make a single SVN directory, create separate directories for each project under it (including the common part) and let developers check out whatever subdirectories they want, or the whole thing?
09:45.40lbtthrows up at the thought of svn
09:46.27lcukthrows up at the thought of lbt throwing up at the thought of svn
09:47.00lbtwatched south park episode 1 last night and hope it's not true love!
09:47.45lcukRST38h, thats what i have, but im scoping out how easy it will be for a developer to just create their own liq* app with only the -dev package and none of the other stuff
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09:48.12RST38hlcuk: He does not have to check out the other stuff anyway
09:48.47RST38hlcuk: If you just want to make a package with development libraries and headers, do it by all means, although this is completely separate from the source code repository issue
09:49.33RST38hlcuk; There are two kinds of developers: hardcore ones who check out a copy of the SVN and update it regularly and normal type, ones that just use whatever -dev package they have got
09:55.51mikkov_X-Fade: Why can't I add another comment to http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/fillets-ng/ ?
09:56.04X-Fademikkov_: I comment per day limit?
09:56.09X-Fademikkov_: 1 ;)
09:57.00mikkov_X-Fade: why do we need that?
09:57.06VDVsxlbt, south park fan ? :P
09:57.24X-Fademikkov_: Because ratings are comments basically.
09:57.43lbtit has its great moments!
09:57.44mikkov_except from the author
09:58.07X-Fademikkov_: Well, we might want to be a bit smarter about it.
09:58.25mikkov_imo, everybody should be able to leave a comment without a rating
09:59.02X-Fademikkov_: Yes, there is a bug open for that. That is on my todo.
10:00.01mikkov_X-Fade: it's not that important. maemo.org login problems are getting even worse for me
10:00.24X-Fademikkov_: Yeah, testing different setups at the moment.
10:01.03X-Fademikkov_: I just did a change that hopefully makes things a bit better there..
10:01.35mikkov_at the moment my login stays valid from one to 5 clicks
10:02.16X-Fademikkov_: Yep, for me too.
10:02.52RST38hhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/12/kettering_to_london/  <=== lcuk, is it really that crazy over there? =)
10:02.58mikkov_X-Fade: well now it stays valid much longer :)
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10:03.33mikkov_not anymore :)
10:04.39X-FadeHmm one of the servers in the cluster has clock issues.
10:04.47X-Fadentpd[17888]: adjusting local clock by 3796.866996s
10:04.52X-Fadentpd[17888]: adjtime failed: Invalid argument
10:05.00X-FadeWell, that can't be good.
10:05.00Stskeepstimezone too maybe
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10:05.11X-FadeNo, timezone is ok.
10:05.21X-FadeSomehow it can't adjust the clock.
10:05.24X-FadeWhich is weird.
10:05.30lardmanhi chaps
10:06.06lbtis ntp user privileged?
10:07.01lcukRST38h, sounds reasonable, ask lardman, he just did a similar slog across the country lol
10:07.07lcuk\o mornin simon
10:07.23lcukhates clocks
10:08.25lcuki almost threw my tablet out the window after seeing "clock skew detected your build may be incomplete" message again the other day
10:08.49Stskeepshah :P
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10:14.29lardmanaargh, lost a patch somewhere
10:14.34lardmantoo many directories of stuff
10:14.44mikkov_X-Fade: I did some packet dumping yesterday and noticed that sometimes timestamps were one hour off
10:15.12mikkov_sometimes the expiry date was set to 1981
10:15.20X-Fademikkov_: Yeah, server 1 was one hour off.
10:15.31X-Fademikkov_: I corrected that an now it looks better.
10:15.53X-Fademikkov_: Yeah the 1981 expiry date is for things that don't change.
10:18.09lardmanI'm rubbish, does anyone have a linky to pH5's PowerVR power-up kernel patch?
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10:23.14lardmanhmm, now where did I write down the register block address...
10:23.33lardman~kick lardman for not making better notes
10:23.34infobotACTION kicks lardman for not making better notes
10:24.11Stskeepstrying to match up with the smartq? ;)
10:24.43lardmanwell I was reading, and I saw that people were speculating that the iPhone has a Samsung s3c6400 in it, and it has an MBX lite inside, so....
10:25.14Stskeepsinteresting
10:25.21lardmanquite
10:25.32lardmanthe Intel 2700G is another one which contains a PowerVR
10:25.43mikkov_X-Fade: the login seems to work for me. But when I logout I keep seeing logged in pages from browser cache :)
10:25.46lardmanI wonder how much the register mappings would change, other than the base address
10:26.25X-Fademikkov_: That is one of the 'benefits' of caching pages.
10:26.41X-Fademikkov_: But it should not cache when logged in..
10:27.32X-Fademikkov_: Expires: Thu, 19 Nov 1981 08:52:00 GMT
10:27.32X-FadeCache-Control: no-store, no-cache, must-revalidate, post-check=0, pre-check=0
10:27.32X-FadePragma: no-cache
10:27.34lardmanOMAP3 docs are still crap for the PowerVR stuff
10:27.48X-FadeShould really not be cached in your browser ;)
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10:30.26X-Fademikkov_: Although we allow some pages to be cached for 5 minutes when authenticated.
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10:38.32lardmanhmm, I need to compare the Samsung and PowerVR caps and see if they might be the same things
10:39.08lardmanSamsung seems to manage 8 textures, while I thought the MBX could only do 2
10:39.16lardmannot sure about the MBX Lite though
10:40.54lcukone of those textures is the powervr logo
10:41.11lcukits like windows version for emerging countries lol
10:42.30lcukis there a list somewhere for maemo specifically where someone has gone through the entire rootfs folder structure and worked out whether stuff can be culled without impact
10:42.42lcukor noting what impact it will have
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10:43.07lcuki have a slight problem with being out of space :$ my fs is running on empty
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10:43.36X-Fadelcuk: locales?
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10:44.10lcukX-Fade, i can look later
10:44.31lcukwhats the actual path tho?
10:44.39lcukgets lost in unixfs
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10:50.18lardmanhmm, I guess # of textures is limited by memory and whatever limits the software layer puts in place
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11:12.36RST38hstarts suspecting that lardman has met the 3D accelerator in Samsung chip
11:12.42RST38hlardman: true?
11:13.13lardmanI've read the docs
11:13.46lardmanam torn between picking up one of these smartq things or trying to hack the driver on the n8x0
11:14.31RST38hlardman: I am also jittery on the smartq
11:14.44RST38hlardman: it is too cheap and cool looking
11:14.57lardmanI think the Q7 would be interesting, not too keen on the Q5 other than as a machine to hack on
11:15.06lbtlardman.. hack the driver and you may well end up with a free/rebated SmartQ
11:15.15lbtQ7 = Q5 with bigger LCD
11:15.17RST38hlardman: I like the Q5 case better but the bigger screen wins
11:15.18lardmanyeah
11:15.23Stskeepslbt: and battery
11:15.34lardmannot much to be done without hw though, the spec details are all there, just needs some experimentation
11:15.35lbtsame resolution
11:16.08lbthow transfererable would the driver be N8x0<>SmartQ
11:16.27lbtbye.,...bbl
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11:16.59lardmanwell not transferable at all, and there's no driver for the Samsuung, just a description of the register bank, which is what is interesting
11:17.30roadiesanyone know where you can get the mysql source tree for maemo?  all I see is executable in the garage.maemo site
11:17.47lardmanapt-get source ...?
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11:27.40roadieslardman: I'm on a Fedora system trying to cross-build it, not sure what apt-get source to get, have you every tried it?
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11:28.49lardmanI use it, but haven't tried to build it
11:29.06lardmanwhat does "apt-cache search  mysql" give you as options?
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11:32.58crashanddieoracle and postgre
11:33.12lardmanhmm
11:35.05lardmanwhat's the address of the scratchbox repo?
11:35.19X-Fadecrashanddie: tsk tsk.. PostgreSQL ;)
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11:57.07andrewfblackHello
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12:06.23lcukhttp://failblog.org/2009/05/09/late-night-snack-fail/   hahahahahaha
12:06.58Stskeepsfive pounds?
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12:18.10andrewfblackwonders why reggie hasn't put up new Minimalist theme yet
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12:37.29aspectmy n800 seems to periodically decide that it doesn't want to read /media/mmc1 -- file manager shows it as unformatted but refuses to do anything about it.  a reboot tends to fix it, but sometimes it takes a few.  is this likely to be the card, the socket, or something else?
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12:46.41dl9pfaspect: formatte with fat ?
12:48.11aspectyes
12:49.01dl9pfhmm here i had it that the fat formatted card got ro and also the fat driver oopsed
12:49.32dl9pfso if you reboot, probly a fs-check is done and its remounted
12:50.24lardmanre
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12:51.52Stskeepsout travelling, andre? :)
12:51.52aspecthmm good one, maybe I'll reformat it and see how that goes
12:51.56X-Fadeandre_: Trolling?
12:52.09andre__Stskeeps, heh. not yet. why? :)
12:52.17Stskeepshehe, just being in .de :P
12:52.29andre__oh. where are you?
12:52.50Stskeepsah, i meant that you are in .de instead of the other place you live :P
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12:53.12andre__confused
12:53.21andre__no, i'm going to be in .de the entire next week
12:53.29andre__X-Fade, trolling? where?
12:53.45X-Fadeandre__: Looks like you are a troll atm?
12:53.47Stskeepsandre__: the "andre_" person confuses me then :)
12:53.55andre__ah.
12:53.59andre__didn't see that.
12:54.09andre__andre__ is andre__. i don't know andre_.
12:54.26andre__and i don't work on qt :)
12:54.58Stskeepshehe
12:55.11andre__now i get the conversation. thanks for the hint :-P
12:55.15aspectunrelated question: as of a few hours ago, when I turn my device off the d-pad LED keeps flashing -- what could be causing that?
12:55.21andre__someone wants to propose a new nick for me? :)
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12:55.35Stskeepsklapper? :P
12:55.48Stskeeps(to clap in danish :P)
12:56.08andre__rattle
12:56.09lardmanto have the clap or to clap...? ;)
12:56.39andre__can i have a poll on ITt? :-P
12:56.42Stskeepshehe
12:56.46lardmanlol
12:56.49Stskeepsbugbait? ;p
12:56.58andrewfblackif you did andre_______ it would be easier to see your not andre_
12:56.59andre__:-D
12:57.08andre_______np
12:57.21andre_andrewfblack: actually I think he came here first....
12:57.28lardmanPyrethrin?
12:57.29andrewfblacklol
12:57.38andrewfblackhow about andre_1 and andre_2
12:58.05andre_______hmm, i got seven underscores. now that will surely impress the girls in here.
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12:58.30andrewfblacklol first you have to get some girls in here :P
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12:58.55andre_______something_else, darn, we already had that name conflict in #gtk+ on irc.gimp.net :)
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13:00.10something_elseandre_______: yes, /nick somethingelse  does not work, I just tried it myself ;}
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13:00.30andre_______hehe
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13:04.32aquatixandre_______: watch out noone steps on your tail
13:04.59andre_______i'll teach'em!
13:05.20aquatix:)
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13:17.04xnt[from_School]Hello World Again :P
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13:31.02fiferboylbt: Hi!
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13:55.27lcuk_homelesslcuk - tracy, all i wanted to do was check my mails!!! @/
13:55.38lcuk_homelesslost his computer
13:56.21Stskeepshehe, rdesktop?
13:58.11Veggenlcuk: there is only one solution: each person has his/her own computer.
13:58.22Veggensharing just doesn't work.
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14:00.16RST38hlcuk_homeless: DoS her!
14:03.28RST38hBrain Scanning May Be Used In EU Security Checks.
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14:12.25lcuk_homelessit might work if we all distract her with flashing xchat, but then again she might close it and thats not what i want
14:12.49lcuk_homelessVeggen: it normally works, but occasionally we collide
14:13.22*** join/#maemo pupnik (n=pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik)
14:13.24pupniki want a patch for firefox that deactivates all flahs and scripts on pages that are not exposed
14:13.27pupnikflash
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14:13.38pupnik90% cpu as usual
14:13.46lcuk_homelesspupnik: a proer flashblock would be better really
14:14.06lcuk_homelesssimply dont have extra stuffs running unless explicitely asked
14:14.34lcuk_homelessis front
14:15.04pupnikhi hi
14:16.20RST38hactually, if somebody provided a wrapper for gettimeofday...
14:17.29lcuk_homelesswhats that matter?
14:17.34lcuk_homelessor how would it help
14:17.39*** join/#maemo x29a (n=x29a@unaffiliated/x29a)
14:18.28pupnikfeh, i'm going to have to hack ffox itself
14:18.38pupniknot finding this patch
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14:30.00RST38hlcuk: Flash players execute gettimeofday() in a busy loop
14:30.39RST38hlcuk: making some modifications to this function should make them less evil
14:31.22lopzhola
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14:31.54pupniknice RST38h
14:32.18pupnikRST38h: i don't see why hidden tabs have to execute anything
14:32.27pupniki mean, it might break some time-aware pages
14:32.39*** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein)
14:32.42pupnikbut i want them to SUSPEND
14:32.47pupnikwhen i am not using them
14:32.54pupnikthe whole, damn, page
14:32.58*** join/#maemo radic (n=radic@ip-77-25-189-227.web.vodafone.de)
14:33.14RST38hpupnik: Well there are two modifications you can make to gettimeofday
14:34.04RST38hpupnik: the first one is to avoid syscall and that can be done by providing gettimeofday value from the kernel via some device (/dev/rtc springs to mind) and mmapping it from libc
14:34.04pupnikyou think it's mainly flash?
14:34.12RST38hI don't think, I know
14:34.17RST38hdid some testing
14:34.19pupnikok
14:34.37pupniki haven't built ffox yet - running the beta (shiretoko) atm
14:34.43RST38hpupnik: the second one is to add usleep() or nanosleep() inside gettimeofday() so that it decreases resolution but makes it less evil
14:34.57RST38hrebuilding ffox won't do you any good
14:35.01pupnikoh right
14:35.02pupnikflash bin
14:35.03pupnikduh
14:35.08RST38hyep
14:35.20RST38hDo an strace on MicroB
14:35.20pupnikthank you
14:36.00pupnikdumbest thing i've typed in weeks
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14:44.10RST38hOpen a site with some flash movies and strace MicroB on that site
14:44.33RST38hAfter you throw up, look for "gettimeofday optimization" on Google
14:45.00RST38hYou will find at least one fix done by RedHat guys using Intel TSC counter (not applicable to tablets) and some discussion
14:45.53RST38hThe fix basically involves exposing gettimeofday result to users via mmap and overloading gettimeofday() libc call
14:46.44RST38hA better idea would be locating idiots who wrote Flash plugin and repeatedly hitting them on the head with a baseball bat
14:47.58*** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-18-52.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net)
14:48.16pupnikRST38h: no way to suspend flash?
14:48.31pupnik:(
14:49.53*** join/#maemo TimRiker (n=timr@173-117-249-239.pools.spcsdns.net)
14:50.19RST38hpupnik: MicroB has got a FlashBlock extension
14:50.38pupnikok
14:50.51pupnikmanually activating flash is probly the answer
14:50.56pupnikvia flashblock
14:51.50RST38hyes, it is the lazy answer to the problem
14:53.23pupnikcould each flash object be instanced in a new process RST38h ?
14:53.35pupnikthen all non-displayed tabs' flash could be suspended, yes?
14:54.35*** join/#maemo codzard (n=nehag@117.198.104.230)
14:54.59derfI like this baseball bat proposal.
14:59.14pupnik:)
14:59.42pupnikhttp://ns25042.ovh.net:8010  Zen FM - stream is pretty nice atm
15:05.55RST38hpupnik: I do not think you can make them processes
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15:06.09RST38hpupnik: threads yes, but not processes
15:06.22RST38hin any case, suspending them just accomplishes what flashblock already does
15:07.15RST38hthe real solution would be to give them some total time slice to run and forget about them, let them share that time slice between themselves
15:09.55pupnikhm
15:10.16pupnikflashblock won't suspend a running flash on the tabs i have open
15:10.23pupnikbut not displayed
15:10.30RST38hMicrob does not support tabs does it?
15:10.33*** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=slonopot@83.149.9.61)
15:10.39RST38hand Flashblock is made for MicroB
15:12.24*** part/#maemo dougt (n=dougt@c-71-198-208-205.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
15:12.36timeless_mbpRST38h: technically microb does support tabs
15:12.42timeless_mbphowever we never shipped the tab ui
15:12.52timeless_mbpand tabbed ui is stupid for an os where the window manager itself uses tabs
15:13.56timeless_mbpRST38h: and yes, Flash is indeed the gettimeofday caller
15:14.08timeless_mbpbut anyone could have told you that w/o wasting time using strace and friends
15:14.22timeless_mbpas for who wrote flash, it's Adobe, you don't really have to look too hard
15:14.41timeless_mbppupnik: if you're playing a flash video in the background
15:14.47timeless_mbpdo you really want it suspended?
15:14.53timeless_mbpmaybe it's the evening news
15:15.01timeless_mbpand all you really care about is the Broadcaster's voice
15:15.11timeless_mbpor maybe it's a concert, and all you really care about is the music
15:15.28timeless_mbpor maybe it's gmail chat and all you want to know is that someone sent you a new message
15:15.45timeless_mbpor maybe it's a custom app that tells you when you need to rebid to capture an eBay auction
15:15.56timeless_mbpor maybe it's a custom app which does file downloading or torrenting
15:16.05timeless_mbpplease don't try to micro manage flash this way
15:16.16timeless_mbpyou're as bad as the product people at nokia
15:16.29timeless_mbpwho go out of their way to break user's ability to actually use the product
15:16.57RST38hseriously considers just ignoring this guy
15:17.34pupniktimeless_mbp: 99% of the flash that runs i want stopped
15:17.44timeless_mbppupnik: i know
15:17.47Stskeepsdisable it in the friendly menu and enable it when you need it?
15:17.48timeless_mbpbut trust me
15:17.49Stskeepsthat's what i do :)
15:17.55timeless_mbpyou don't want a policy to break these things
15:17.57pupnikmhm
15:18.01*** join/#maemo rmt (n=rmt@151.60.103.166)
15:18.01pupnikyeah
15:18.01timeless_mbpif you don't want flash, disable it
15:18.09timeless_mbpour browser has one of the *best* uis for doing that
15:18.11pupniki can't disable a running flash
15:18.21RST38hIt is pointless
15:18.23timeless_mbpunchecking flash in components should
15:18.23Stskeepsno, but you can preempt it :P
15:18.27rmtIs there a cmdline tool (or a library call) to switch the display on/off and to unlock/lock the kbd ?
15:18.37pupnikhmm ty timeless_mbp will look at this
15:18.38Stskeepsrmt: dbus calls probably
15:18.42rmtOk
15:18.44Stskeepsat least for the last part
15:18.52RST38hMaemo Flash player has got a fundamental bug. It is not going to be fixed. It does not come with the source.
15:19.02timeless_mbpRST38h: it isn't Maemo Flash Player
15:19.07timeless_mbpit's Adobe Flash Player
15:19.19timeless_mbpyou're getting the same genuine flash player that a normal person gets
15:19.22RST38hNow, I personally do not want to hear how this bug improves my user experience and how I really do not want it to be fixed
15:19.24timeless_mbpplease don't complain about maemo
15:19.34timeless_mbpRST38h: then go away
15:19.41timeless_mbpdon't complain about working features here
15:19.57timeless_mbpyou already have choices like;
15:19.59RST38hdid not complain about any features, especially to timeless
15:20.02timeless_mbp1. turning off flash block
15:20.07timeless_mbp2. using adblock
15:20.11timeless_mbp3. probably using flashblock
15:20.21RST38hwas discussing with pupnik possible ways to fix the Flash problem not having the source code
15:20.23timeless_mbps/(1.*) block/$1 player/
15:20.43*** join/#maemo matt_c_ (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)
15:20.44timeless_mbpRST38h: offhand, that's probably a (c) violation
15:20.54timeless_mbpyou'd basically have stolen code on your computer
15:20.59timeless_mbpif you hack it
15:21.05RST38hsighs
15:21.11Stskeepsdepends if you do it with a LD_PRELOAD for gettimeofday or kernel modification
15:21.28RST38h*** Ignoring PUBLIC from TIMELESS_MBP
15:21.48timeless_mbpi'm assuming that changing gettimeofday would break video playback
15:21.50timeless_mbpshrugs
15:22.15RST38hSts: Apparently, it takes both
15:22.46pupnikis sorry to have brought it up
15:22.48RST38hSts: There is another idea though: given that these flash players are probably threads, isn't there some way to control thread priorities?
15:23.02xnt[from_School]is back
15:23.05Stskeepstimeless_mbp: anyway, the thing i was speaking about the other day was that i released a firmware internally for one of those smartq5 tablets and less than 12 hours later it ends up with a good bunch off rumours (it's the famed n900 nokia os, it's the beta release of smartq english firmware, it's a pink elephant), and it's own blurry pictures collection: http://www.jiongtang.com/blog/html/digital-product/smartq5-english-version-firmware-beta.html
15:23.26RST38hSts: This modification can probably be done in the MicroB itself
15:23.32xnt[from_School]Stskeeps: it was a internal release?
15:23.38xnt[from_School]n900 OS xD
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15:24.03timeless_mbpStskeeps: cute
15:24.21timeless_mbpfwiw, flash player must do some work on the ui thread
15:24.33timeless_mbpsince that's in general the only thread from which they're allowed to do rendering
15:24.43timeless_mbpand if someone manages to stuff up the browser nicely enough
15:24.45StskeepsRST38h: i believe there's much to be earned in seperation of tasks in one way or the other in a browser .. browsers are almost like OS'es or virtual machines these days in some ways
15:24.51timeless_mbpbecause the ui thread was waiting for behavior from a thread
15:25.12timeless_mbpStskeeps: fwiw, external process hosting for plugins will probably come
15:25.12RST38hSts: Google Chrome, here you go :)
15:25.15timeless_mbpi don't know when
15:25.22timeless_mbpdefinitely not for fremantle
15:25.33timeless_mbpbut keep in mind that flash applets like being able to talk to eachother
15:25.42RST38hSts: No, I do not think the current embedded object model allows task separation
15:25.45timeless_mbpso if you have 4 flash applets, you'd probably have only one flash host
15:26.16timeless_mbpwhich means if 1 of those applets is important and you try to penalize the other 3, you're shooting yourself in the groin to improve your walking
15:26.22Stskeepsyeah
15:26.33StskeepsRST38h: eventually the browser and everything just merges together anyway :P
15:26.49pupnikwow this is informative :)
15:27.09timeless_mbpStskeeps: fwiw, RST38h  is wrong
15:27.11pupnikas a user, i want stuff i'm not using to not consume cpu
15:27.23timeless_mbppupnik: correct
15:27.33timeless_mbpbut as a program, the program has no clue which stuff you care about or why
15:27.34rmtProbably more important .. I've now setup bootmenu, and copied files across to /dev/mmc3 (an ext3 partition, 2nd partition on internal mmc, aka immc2 and /dev/mmcblk0p2) .. duplicated with gnu tar, like nupgrade.sh does it .. but no luck..says failed to boot from immc2 (sfdisk says: /dev/mmcblk0p2 : start=   120064, size=  3812096, Id=83)
15:27.36*** join/#maemo fab (n=bellet@bellet.info)
15:27.41timeless_mbpas a user, i want to be told which things are using my cpu
15:27.44Stskeepsyeah
15:27.45pupniktimeless_mbp: firefox is taking 80-90% of my 2ghz pentium-M atm
15:27.49pupnikand i'm in irssi now
15:27.50timeless_mbpand have a way of saying "that's ok", "this isn't"
15:27.53pupnikk
15:28.00RST38hpupnik: this is wrong.
15:28.01timeless_mbpthe only person who can decide which is ok is the user
15:28.05crashanddiedoes the n800 run at 400Mhz on OS2008?
15:28.16timeless_mbpcrashanddie: most of the time
15:28.17crashanddieI think that's bull but just want to verify
15:28.17RST38hpupnik: I think it has just gone haywire, restart
15:28.27timeless_mbpit does the same cpu frequency scaling that the n810 does
15:28.34pupnikno this is 30 tabs of craptastc sites without adblock :)
15:28.40RST38hcrash: yes whe in performance mode
15:28.42crashanddieoh, right
15:28.42timeless_mbpit has to switch to the lower speed when it needs to do DSP work
15:28.44Stskeepstimeless_mbp: i would actually really love something like a simple resource monitor that showed how much a process burned of resources
15:28.48Stskeepslike, in general
15:28.50RST38hpupnik: well, start with adblock then =)
15:28.56timeless_mbpStskeeps: that's precisely what i've asked for internally
15:29.01timeless_mbpit's the right answer to the right problem
15:29.07timeless_mbpinstead of "let's cripple the browser"
15:29.16timeless_mbpbelieve me, i do have your interests at heart
15:29.26timeless_mbpbut please, don't just try to shoot first and ask questions later
15:29.28RST38hSts: Actually, I probably do not want "everything" merged into the browser :)
15:29.35timeless_mbpthe questions your customers will ask are "why is everything broken"
15:29.52timeless_mbpbecause your wild aim will hit lots of unintended targets that you didn't dream of
15:29.58timeless_mbpyou and most nokians
15:30.06timeless_mbpdoes a lot more dreaming than most people
15:30.33Stskeepstimeless_mbp: i'm pondering if we can do some simple things - you saw the mer rightmost menu? including a simple visualization of how much cpu/io/whatever it burns.. it really should be possible to get it semi accurate
15:30.37Stskeepslike high network traffic, etc
15:31.03Stskeepscausing the tablet to lose power
15:31.07timeless_mbpStskeeps: my proposal for the os2008 or so time frame was to change how the battery meter worked
15:31.18timeless_mbpso that in addition to showing charging it would show draining
15:31.28Stskeepsthat'd be neat
15:31.29timeless_mbpand clicking it would let you see who was draining it the most
15:32.03Stskeepsi wonder if something like dtrace would be useful, hm
15:32.06timeless_mbpmostly your choices are DSP task, WiFi, processes, unknown kernel tasks, processes using gettimeofday, and plugins
15:32.09timeless_mbpsomething like that anyway
15:32.31Stskeepsor things keeping backlight alive
15:32.37Stskeepsi mean, it has to be fairly standard constants
15:32.37timeless_mbpyeah that too
15:32.47timeless_mbpStskeeps: i /think/ that it might be possible to ship an oprofile enabled kernel...
15:32.52timeless_mbpwhere oprofile is not on most of the time
15:32.57timeless_mbpbut clicking the battery meter enables it
15:33.04Stskeeps*nod*
15:33.12Stskeepsso it profiles while battery meter is open
15:33.13timeless_mbpand then a second or two later you tell the user which things oprofile found
15:33.16timeless_mbp:)
15:33.30timeless_mbpyou'll need to add some heuristics
15:33.39timeless_mbpand support for pluggable heuristics
15:33.42Stskeepsyeah
15:33.43timeless_mbpbut that's definitely doable
15:33.52Stskeepsi wonder if powertop has something like that
15:33.57timeless_mbpRST38h and friends are actually capable of helping write those heurisitics
15:34.07timeless_mbpwhen they aren't busy being bulls in china shops
15:34.28timeless_mbpanyway, i'd love to see a proto for this
15:34.37timeless_mbpand this is an area where Mer could get things going much sooner
15:35.16Stskeepswhat i really hate is that when i work on mer is that i find things i would much rather have had chosen as my thesis topic :P
15:35.41Stskeepsit seems like powertop exists for omap3, intruiging
15:37.15timeless_mbpanyway, for plugins, among other things, the browser should be able to conspire w/ such a meter to tell it how many plugin instances are open
15:37.43Stskeepsyeah.. to help the understanding of the raw data
15:38.00timeless_mbpand technically the browser can stop individual instances, so w/ work it should be possible for a meter to let the user say "try stopping all of the plugins", or "resume this one"
15:38.17timeless_mbpbut the first step is for someone to make a basic impl
15:38.24*** join/#maemo mlpug (n=mlpug@a91-156-60-235.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
15:38.56pupnik<PROTECTED>
15:39.05pupnikyou might like that station - chillout
15:39.09pupniklotek/lofi
15:39.14pupnikflag to lardman:
15:39.19lardmanhello
15:39.25pupnik:)
15:39.30lardmansorry, just got back from a meeting
15:39.34pupnikk.
15:39.39pupnikmake your girlfriend listen to it
15:39.47pupnikor streamrip for later - this set is damn good
15:39.55Stskeepstimeless_mbp: i'll keep that in mind, - it's really one of those tools that would be great on mobile devices
15:40.11Stskeepsbecause nothing sucks more than a battery low message when you need it the rest of the day
15:40.20lardmanpupnik: cheers
15:40.35timeless_mbpnods
15:41.09lardmanso, was the rx-51 released during my absence?
15:41.27lardmancrosses fingers & toes
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15:41.42Stskeepsor even heuristics ("this app is rapidly eating your cpu, i'll slow it a bit down")
15:41.45timeless_mbplardman: very funny
15:41.46Stskeeps:P
15:41.59Stskeeps(i don't believe in automatic actions when it comes to power management, though)
15:42.02timeless_mbpStskeeps: most of the heuristics should be more like
15:42.22Stskeepsas in, transparent ones
15:42.31timeless_mbp"did you know that this app was eating your cpu?" if no, did you want us to try penalizing it?
15:42.43timeless_mbpagain, automatic is the wrong answer
15:43.09timeless_mbpif the user wants to use the browser to do video conferencing, or audio streaming or to hear new mail indications
15:43.12Stskeeps"do you want to zap the developer"
15:43.14timeless_mbpyou can't automatically drop those
15:43.28lardmanyou could tell the user which app it is though
15:43.36timeless_mbplardman: that's what i'm proposing
15:43.36lardmanor have we already done that bit?
15:43.54timeless_mbpthe browser could probably help by offering a list of plugins and locations and when they were opened/closed
15:44.09timeless_mbpthat way if the user checks their battery and sees "wow, it's low, what happened"
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15:44.31timeless_mbpthe meter could say "well, you had 11 flash apps on ovi.com [your start page] open"
15:44.50Stskeepsheh, i just spent half a year regarding that topic, but dealing with power saving and positioning
15:44.53timeless_mbpideally the user could eventually tell the meter to tell the browser "ok, i don't want ovi.com using flash anymore"
15:44.57lardmanthat would be good, but we should go up another level and list processes which were open and for how long, cpu load, etc
15:45.12timeless_mbplardman: sure
15:45.20lardmanbut that should be something someone switches on rather than runs all the time
15:45.22timeless_mbpbut really, the place for this isn't breaking the browser
15:45.30timeless_mbpit's enhancing the battery meter
15:45.45timeless_mbphave it be the user who chooses if they care
15:45.47lcukthats reasonable, but there is a breakpoint where the logging and monitoring becomes enough of an issue to cause its own battery problems?
15:45.51timeless_mbpthen empower them
15:46.02lardmanyeah, or I think a general logging app (which can also tell you why desktop apps didn't start, look at dmesg output, etc.)
15:46.11Stskeepslcuk: sampling will be just as fine too
15:46.14Stskeepslike once in a while
15:46.25lardmanlcuk: you specifically enable logging when you know there's an issue
15:46.26timeless_mbplcuk: it should be possible to tune this so that it works
15:46.43lcukyeah agreed - its like the liqbase log - it knows every action taken and screen displayed (within the session)
15:46.48timeless_mbpand again, you're starting from state: user *is* concerned about battery and is *asking* *WHY*
15:47.05timeless_mbpthe user is therefore willing to pay a bit for that info
15:47.08Stskeepsthis tool should be as mandatory as a crash reporter :P
15:47.25lardmanyeah, where's X-Fade, I'm still interested in doing that crash reporting tool
15:47.48timeless_mbpStskeeps: right
15:47.58timeless_mbpbut again, it'll be much better if you guys implement it
15:48.01timeless_mbpyou can get it ready sooner
15:48.07timeless_mbpi'm sure i can get eero and others to help
15:48.20pupnikmm
15:48.30pupnikamazing price on that q5/q7
15:48.34*** part/#maemo jstypo_ (n=jstypo@190.74.121.224)
15:48.35lardmanneeds to hook into the launcher though, do we have the source for that as will be?
15:48.58lardmanpupnik: yeah, Q7 doesn't seem to be available yet though, GBAX didn't know when they'd be offering it anyway
15:49.22lcuklardman, can monitor process startup properly at lower level i believe
15:49.49lcukhas always wanted something like sysinternals regmon/filemon type things but never found anything as simple of useful
15:50.14lardmanlcuk: kernel hooks are not what I really envisage, the launcher would be cleaner
15:50.27pupnikmaybe i can sell q7's to dentists
15:50.36pupnikhttp://ns25042.ovh.net:8010  Zen FM - great lofi/groove/chillout set
15:50.42pupnikis impressed
15:50.46lardmanhas no speakers at work :(
15:50.47lcukbut what about when a launched application calls other processes
15:51.03lardmanthe original app should report the error really
15:51.19lcukthe original app died cos there was a bug
15:51.21lcuketc
15:51.23Stskeepsbbl dinner
15:53.33lcukgoes finishing up for the day, bbl
15:53.56lardmantoo
15:54.01lardmanbbiab at home
15:54.05timeless_mbplcuk: yeah, windows really does have better tools :)
15:54.42timeless_mbplcuk: so what are oyu guys doing w/ crash reporting?
15:54.58timeless_mbpcertainly if browser-daemon crashes, you want browser-ui to do the reporting
15:55.06GAN800Can somebody poke jolouis about uploading his USB ethernet stuff to Extras?
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15:55.07timeless_mbpor if mail-dameon crashes, you want mail-ui to do the reporting
15:57.12lcuktimeless_mbp, liqbase classic has had pretty much every crashable in its capabilities squashed, and if something crops up there is a full complete session log written
15:57.41lcukthe session log includes pretty much everything required to let me know where and what happened - logging is vital if i am to remotely diagnose and repair a problem
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15:58.50lcukusually reproduction of a crashable bug (lets say with book reader) is either directly noticable from the log, or with a copy of the book text attempted reading,, but either way without the log i would be blind
15:59.10lcukconsiders good logging to be another UI :)
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16:05.44lcuktimeless_mbp, the one thing i havent put in is automatic sending of reports and logs, its still down to the user to get it to me :)
16:06.22timeless_mbpi have to go
16:06.25timeless_mbpttyl
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16:07.12Macerstar trek is  apretty good movie
16:07.31Macergood old capt james t kirk all up in the night club getting his pimp on
16:08.38Macertrying to bang uhura
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16:12.28Bobbehey guys, I'm having some trouble having maemo mount my swap partition automatically. Shouldn't it be doing it after I included it in /etc/fstab?
16:13.01penguinbaitI have never been able to get swap to mount out of fstab
16:13.11z4chhsame o_o
16:13.20penguinbaitI always just create a startup script in /etc/rc2.d
16:13.32z4chhswapon?
16:13.54Bobbejust put swapon /dev/mmcblk0p4 in the script, or are there other commands?
16:13.56rmtHmm.. so, why does /dev/mmcblk0p2 have a different major/minor in initrd than in my root fs?
16:14.01rmtUsing bootmenu
16:14.21penguinbaitcommand is right, but script needs to be correct init format,
16:14.56Bobbeanywhere I can get an example? Have no idea how to write said script
16:15.20penguinbaityes look at some scripts in /etc/rc2.d ;)
16:15.27penguinbaitor do a search on google
16:15.36Bobbethx, just a sec
16:15.57Macerheh
16:16.05Macerstar trek is awesome
16:16.11penguinbaithttp://www.linux.com/feature/46892
16:16.26penguinbaitsimple init script
16:16.29pupniknice to see penguinbait again
16:16.45pupnikhope you're doing well
16:16.48Bobbeoh yeah
16:16.54*** join/#maemo flavioribeiro (n=avaty@189.71.21.139)
16:16.56penguinbaityou too pupnik ;)
16:17.10Bobbepenguinbait, just saw this topic on itt like 'what the hell happened to penguinbait'
16:17.15penguinbaitits been a while, but I am becomming more active again ;)
16:17.15Bobbekeep going strong man, there's hope ;)
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16:17.31penguinbaithe's gone mad
16:17.33penguinbaitahhhhhhhhhhhh
16:17.35Macerhahha! he's banging a green girl!
16:17.48penguinbaitswine flu
16:18.24Bobbelmao
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16:19.21lardmanre
16:23.51Bobbethis guy in itt suggests putting it in rcS. What is the difference between putting the command in rcS or in rc2.d?
16:25.59lbtBobbe: the rc dirs are used to control when things are started up
16:26.15lbtrc2.d is 'normal multiuser'
16:26.25lbtrcS is single user
16:26.40Bobbebot both are run at boot time right?
16:26.47lbtyes
16:26.56lbtyou pass through single user
16:27.00lbtthen multi
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16:27.13lbteg if you need a network to be up
16:27.23lbtyou make sure it goes after the network init
16:27.31BobbeI see
16:27.32Bobbethanks lbt
16:27.36lbtNP
16:27.58penguinbaitI see no real benefit either way.  You really shouldnt be hitting much swap until after runlevel 2 is done
16:28.31rmtOk.. after a few changes to bootmenu.sh, I seem to have a system booting from the mmc card. :)
16:28.47rmt420MB free. Woo. :)
16:29.40penguinbaitrmt, what your not booting off tape?
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16:30.12rmtpenguinbait, I was until the rabbit ate it.
16:30.19penguinbaitahh
16:30.43rmtBut I think this /dev/mmcblk* difference between initrd and the mmc card is a little odd..
16:31.00rmtMaybe I should swap them around in initrd..
16:31.01penguinbaitits normal, messed up but normal
16:31.09penguinbaitand somewhat annoying
16:31.14rmtWhy is it normal?
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16:31.40penguinbaitFanoush could better explain
16:31.53penguinbaitand I am sure he has if you go searching
16:34.48rmtudev does the assignment in the OS, maybe..
16:34.50penguinbaitcheck out
16:34.51penguinbaithttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=238942&highlight=mmcblk0+mmcblk1#post238942
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16:35.47penguinbaitsounds like he fixed it, but it has not been incorporated into development
16:36.26Stskeepsrmt: grab a mer kernel and it's fixed
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16:37.19penguinbaitthanks
16:39.36rmtStskeeps, bootmenu with mer kernel?
16:39.51Stskeepsrmt: yeah - mer kernel is just a maemo kernel with some goodie pathces
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16:40.13Stskeepsbut in bootmenu, you should use ${INT_CARDDÂ} and ${EXT_CARD} not mmcblk*
16:40.50Macerwell.. you can't go wrong with red matter
16:40.51Macerhaha
16:40.53rmtbootmenu does do that .. I just had to patch it to load ext3
16:41.08rmtOnce done, it worked.
16:54.15ShadowJKOn desktop I use nspluginproxy which runs flash in a separate process. Doesn't take the browser with it when flash crashes, and I can kill the process when I get fed up with flash eating a whole core :)
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16:58.38lcukreturns
16:58.51pupniklocusts
16:59.42*** join/#maemo GeneralAntilles (n=GAN800@2416422hfc34.tampabay.res.rr.com)
16:59.44lcuksharks with laser beams
16:59.50thopiekaretrunko: PING
16:59.54GeneralAntillesCan somebody clear up whether GSM voice is a hardware or software issue?
17:00.25etrunkothopiekar: pong
17:01.28GeneralAntillesqole seems to think it's a software issue, but I don't really buy that.
17:01.46GeneralAntillesUnfortunately I'm not familiar enough with cellular hardware to know for sure either way.
17:02.25GeneralAntillesI suspect there would be rather major issues if a device that wasn't certified for cellular voice began being used for it.
17:02.52GeneralAntillesandre__, ping?
17:03.06andre__GeneralAntilles, pong.
17:03.14StskeepsGeneralAntilles: honestly? both
17:03.14GeneralAntillesandre__, whiteboard tags?
17:03.35StskeepsGeneralAntilles: AT commands etc (sw) and voice lines in the hardware to relay sound
17:03.39Stskeeps(hw)
17:03.47andre__GeneralAntilles, yeah, but verb and object also welcome ;-)
17:04.07GeneralAntillesStskeeps, well, his assertion seems to be that combining the Maemo 5 device with oFono would result in the possibility of a software implementation of GSM voice.
17:04.21GeneralAntillesandre__, how does GNOME do it?
17:04.34andre__with regard to what?
17:04.42GeneralAntilleswhiteboards
17:04.45StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i don't recall the exact specs but honestly, if the gsm modem provides voice in/out and the kernel can access it, then yes
17:04.47andre__for?
17:04.59GeneralAntillesWhat do they use the field for and how is it used.
17:05.04Stskeeps"if it's wired up"
17:05.16GeneralAntillesStskeeps, well, would a data modem necessarily provide that?
17:05.16andre__ah. gnome uses the status whiteboard to add non-global keywords
17:05.17*** join/#maemo jeremiah (n=jeremiah@c83-248-143-10.bredband.comhem.se)
17:05.46andre__like "aklapper[30]" or "evolution[vfolders]"
17:05.56Stskeepsevening jeremiah
17:05.57lbtfiferboy: hi
17:06.21GeneralAntillesandre__, so it sounds effectively like what I'm proposing.
17:06.23andre__it's not used for adding "remov" when the bug summary says "delet", if that's your underlying question :)
17:06.26GeneralAntillesThere's a specific format, though?
17:06.41andre__not really. just a namespace convention that must people probably don't know of :)
17:06.56StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i kinda suspect nokia's going to surprise us, as it seems kinda half-assed not to use the inheritent properties of a hsdpa module
17:06.58andre__wouldn't call it specific. we decided that probably 5 years back
17:07.17jeremiahStskeeps: Hi Stskeeps!
17:07.21GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I don't think it's going to be ready in the Fremantle timeframe, personally.
17:07.32*** join/#maemo pH5_ (n=ph5@e178211012.adsl.alicedsl.de)
17:07.39jeremiahI cant seem to find the docs describing editing web pages in the git SCM on garage
17:07.41StskeepsGeneralAntilles: sure, but maybe fremantle point 1 :)
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17:08.11GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I'm almost certain we'll see it with Harmattan
17:08.18GeneralAntillesI'm really doubtful about anything before then.
17:08.32Stskeepswas "Diablo" on the schedule ever btw?
17:08.52pupnikhah hah ... the pain .. .i can hardly read the text :)  lol
17:09.30Stskeepsjust wondering :P
17:09.31GeneralAntillesStskeeps, how do you mean?
17:09.48GeneralAntillesjeremiah, put the pages in the www folder.
17:10.03andre__trying to drag GeneralAntilles into a third conversation at the same time:
17:10.04andre__GeneralAntilles, so what are you effectively proposing for the status whiteboard?
17:10.07StskeepsGeneralAntilles: nm :P
17:10.19GeneralAntillesandre__, I can multitask. :P
17:10.46GeneralAntillesandre__, I don't know, really. Mostly I'm just wondering if there's a good way we can start using it in maemo.org's bugzilla.
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17:11.14GeneralAntillesI don't really have any strong opinions about what that might be, and am mostly looking for useful conventions we might be able to borrow from other bugzillas.
17:11.36andre__GeneralAntilles, yeah, but what's the good usecase? it's a whiteboard, so you can use it for anything. but just using it for the sake of using it doesn't make sense :-D
17:11.55andre__ah, i see. well, compared to gnome bugzilla maemo.org bugzilla is too small that i see a real usecase currently
17:12.32GeneralAntillesWell, I WAS thinking that it might be a good place to spam search improving tags.
17:12.37*** join/#maemo melmoth (n=melmoth@did75-18-88-171-132-204.fbx.proxad.net)
17:12.41andre__anybody can use it for his own tagging of course... but so far i didn't use it myself, because <5000 bugs is quite maintainable
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17:13.08GeneralAntillesWell, for people like you who are experienced with managing bugzillas. :P
17:13.18GeneralAntillesBut not everybody is quite as badass as yourself. :D
17:13.25andre__ehehe
17:13.30andre__wonders if whiteboard entries are covered by normal queries at all
17:13.44GeneralAntillesBesides, it'd be good to have some inertia behind something for when we do get to that point.
17:13.57lardman~curse ARM asm
17:13.58infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, ARM asm !
17:14.22GeneralAntillesBugzilla could use a slightly more user-friendly quick search.
17:14.41andre__i think that namespaces can be very useful if it gets more complicated later on. however, something like "query[delet] query[remov]" looks a bit weird maybe
17:14.44GeneralAntillesFuzzier and more intelligent.
17:14.58andre__http://bugzilla.gnome.org/query.cgi?format=short :-P
17:15.03andre__oh yeah, i agree.
17:15.13andre__but that would require word lists and mappings i guess
17:15.16GeneralAntillesIt's only OPEN bugs by default, though, right?
17:15.35GeneralAntillesSurely there must be somewhere those things can be borrowed from.
17:15.53andre__whoops. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/query.cgi?format=short is a downstream thingy and gnome-specific. sorry
17:16.22andre__https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?format=specific was what i wanted to paste of course
17:16.30andre__there you can also choose the status of the bugs
17:16.56GeneralAntillesIt should be ALL by default.
17:17.05thopiekar_tabletetrunko: how is the status of the ubuntu repo for e17
17:17.08thopiekar_tablet?
17:17.42andre__GeneralAntilles, that should be easy to patch
17:17.50andre__please file a ticket so i don't forget :)
17:18.08GeneralAntillesI hope the Apple Store decides to call today.
17:18.11jeremiahGeneralAntilles: what about the description of the repo?
17:18.35GeneralAntillesjeremiah, that, I do not know.
17:19.06jeremiahIts driving me crazy to see: Unnamed repository; edit this file to name it for gitweb.
17:19.09jeremiahRSS
17:19.13jeremiahwhoops
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17:20.34RST38hmoo all
17:21.16GeneralAntillesandre__, done, 4536
17:21.25andre__cool, thanks!
17:22.10*** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A17121.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:23.17GeneralAntillesWe're gonna need to figure out something to make the individual bug listing fit in 800px.
17:23.44RST38hwhy?
17:24.13crashanddietimeless: you should've gotten some kind of email by now :)
17:25.21andre__GeneralAntilles, 800px? who wants that? :-)
17:25.43GeneralAntillesandre__, those crazy bastards who triage in MIcroB. ;)
17:26.05RST38humgh...
17:26.17andre__they really exist? i tried that a few times but gave up... takes too much time...
17:26.25RST38hthinks it's kinda too late to care about that
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17:27.31GeneralAntillesandre__, sure, me.
17:27.44GeneralAntillesBesides, tablets are a use-case all of maemo.org needs to target.
17:27.56Stskeeps800px or the sidebar included? ;p
17:28.01GeneralAntillesBugzilla is the one application that noticeably violated that on a frequent basis.
17:28.07GeneralAntillesStskeeps, no sidebar.
17:28.43andre__uhm. triaging bugs on an N8x0 is masochistic IMO
17:28.55*** join/#maemo LiraNuna (n=LiraNuna@98.210.154.77)
17:28.56andre__even *if* bugzilla would fit in 800px
17:28.57*** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (n=timeless@192.100.104.170)
17:29.14Stskeepsandre__: tablet usage is all about masochism once in a while ;)
17:29.26fiferboylbt: Have you taken a look into hildon-pannable-area at all?
17:29.34andre__Stskeeps, doubletrue ;-)
17:29.55RST38hGeneral: Perfect. Let us remove that damn sidebar RIGHT NOW
17:30.07GeneralAntillesRST38h, no.
17:30.16crashanddieReading slashdot comments on the tablet is the crown-jewel of masochism
17:30.16RST38hthen no 800px
17:30.32RST38hslashdot does not work well on microb
17:30.33GeneralAntillesandre__, whether or not that's a fact is immaterial.
17:30.36RST38htoo much js
17:30.45crashanddieRST38h: my point exactly ;)
17:30.45GeneralAntillesBesides, devices are only going to get faster.
17:30.52*** join/#maemo codzard (n=nehag@117.198.100.169)
17:31.06GeneralAntillesTriaging aside, simply viewing bugs is less than optimal.
17:31.13crashanddieGeneralAntilles: tell that to the eee guys
17:31.27RST38hGeneral: the whole maemo.org site is less than optimal on the tablet
17:31.36GeneralAntillesRST38h, yes, we get it, you hate the sidebar.
17:31.40GeneralAntillesComplaint noted.
17:31.53crashanddieGeneralAntilles: there's another thing
17:32.08RST38hGeneral: that too, but the more material point is that there is no way you can have sidebar AND 800px
17:32.19GeneralAntillesandre__, really, the better question is: if it can be done without too much effort and without breaking things, why not?
17:32.33lbtfiferboy: I have now... I'm in the middle of qabstractscrollarea and friends at the moment
17:32.35GeneralAntillesRST38h, bugzilla doesn't have a sidebar and it doesn't fit in 800px.
17:32.40lbtgreat idea BTW :)
17:32.50GeneralAntillesRST38h, so your point is rather irrelevant to this discussion.
17:32.56*** join/#maemo StsN802 (n=user@84.238.94.243)
17:33.06GeneralAntillesBesides, the vast majority of maemo.org works just fine at 800px with a sidebar.
17:33.13andre__GeneralAntilles, as long as I get enough text of the summary, I'm fine :)
17:33.19andre__but this sounds like stuff that should go upstream
17:33.21fiferboyThanks.  I think I was just going to see what Maximum scroll they used, then it hit me that there is probably a lot more useful stuff in there
17:33.23*** join/#maemo fnordianslipeee (n=darren@78.33.82.89)
17:33.24RST38hGeneral: yes, you can make it so that a page does not fit 800px WITHOUT sidebar
17:33.28RST38hSo what? :)
17:33.34GeneralAntillessighs
17:33.52crashanddieRST38h: tu pousses le bouchon un peu trop loin Maurice
17:34.02GeneralAntillesRST38h, I'm going to go over here and attempt to be productive, OK?
17:34.39*** join/#maemo chenca (n=chenca@200.184.118.130)
17:35.16RST38hGeneral: mmm...ok, try
17:35.33GeneralAntillesandre__, it's the Reporter and CC fields that are ruining it.
17:36.28GeneralAntillesandre__, and, actually the GNOME layout fits just fine in 800px
17:36.34andre__shouldn't that be very easy to solve with a greaseomnkey script?
17:36.38andre__oh. okay
17:36.45GeneralAntillesExcept for the front page which seems to have 1024px set for nodamnreason.
17:36.50andre__we must get rid of bug reporters!!!
17:37.15RST38handre: just export all bug data through SOAP and let every bug reporter write his own script to access and present it
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17:37.32RST38hs/let/make/
17:37.33GeneralAntillesandre__, that's another issue entirely.
17:38.08GeneralAntillesAlso, why the hell is Mozilla's bugzilla so broken about line wrapping?
17:38.37andre__wasn't me
17:38.53crashanddieGeneralAntilles: it's not a bug, it's a feature
17:39.13GeneralAntillesDouble the wrapping, double the fun?
17:39.29crashanddieNope, paragraphing the lot
17:39.39lcukhahahaha GeneralAntilles if you were pissed at my photoshop skills, you are gonna be mega pissed at penguinbait
17:39.41GeneralAntillesandre__, is the bug layout chaning in 3.4?
17:39.41crashanddieeach sentence: one paragraph
17:39.47lcukpenguinbait, hats off sir :D
17:39.57crashanddielcuk: ?
17:40.07lcukhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=286846&postcount=56
17:40.39crashanddiefuck me, I'm happy I never posted my picture on there
17:40.44lcukhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=286257&postcount=29
17:40.47lcukvs
17:40.50*** join/#maemo CutMeOwnThroat (n=XXXy@chem014237.chem.northwestern.edu)
17:40.51andre__GeneralAntilles, don't know exactly i must admit
17:41.15lcukim sure we could find pictures of you somewhere lol
17:41.22andre__working too much with 2.x systems or otherwise highly customized 3.x systems :-/
17:41.34crashanddielcuk: think again ;)
17:41.57crashanddielcuk: and you are not allowed to publish pictures I sent to you only
17:42.24*** join/#maemo ph5 (n=ph5@e178246140.adsl.alicedsl.de)
17:42.25GeneralAntillesAw, bitch, Ringo?
17:42.28lcukyou didnt, they are on youtube lol
17:42.30Stskeepslcuk: the star trek fleet one is kinda cool :>
17:42.32*** join/#maemo TimRiker (n=timr@173-117-249-239.pools.spcsdns.net)
17:42.33GeneralAntillesSeriously, fuck penguinbait.
17:42.47crashanddielcuk: there's no picture of me on youtube!
17:42.52lcukyeah Stskeeps he actually looks at home there
17:43.22Stskeepslcuk: there's some page to vulcanize people..
17:43.25GeneralAntillesBetter be careful or I might get disgruntled and shoot up the place. ;)
17:43.42andre__hell. today i learned another reason to always use an avatar out there and not a real pic :-P
17:43.50RST38hhave you got a phaser, General?
17:44.02Stskeepsi think it's fantastic the mer logo gets cropped to "me" on iTT.
17:44.03crashanddieandre__: just don't bother uploading anything, so much easier :)
17:44.25crashanddieStskeeps: "I got ME on my n810"
17:45.00lcuklol RST38h
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17:46.08debernardis_hello
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17:46.41GeneralAntillesandre__, do you have a preference about the bug layout?
17:46.43jeremiahSgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club band, we hope you will enjoy the show.
17:46.59GeneralAntillesThe GNOME one seems nice and clean. Perhaps worth porting at some point?
17:47.47*** join/#maemo trofi (n=slyfox@ip132-79.17.dsl.minsktelecom.by)
17:48.10penguinbaithttp://penguinbait.com/thegang.jpg
17:50.10GeneralAntillesandre__, about the cool nick. Didn't freejazz think up an exciting name for you? ;)
17:50.53*** join/#maemo Interocitor (n=Jacob@ip98-165-84-98.ph.ph.cox.net)
17:51.42lbthello debernardis_
17:52.36debernardis_hello lbt :)
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17:52.58CutMeOwnThroatis it my imagination, or does using the N810 as an mp3 player kill the battery rather fast
17:53.10lbtCutMeOwnThroat: turn the volume down
17:53.19andre__GeneralAntilles, oh yeah. darn, what was it?
17:53.25andre__diving into his hatemail
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17:53.53CutMeOwnThroatlbt, headphones should use less than the speakers though (which was what I used)?
17:54.00debernardis_cutmeownthroat: not in my experience - can listen music for hours. Rogue processes instead kill it fast
17:54.01andre__GeneralAntilles, "klaptrap"? or which one? i can't read all that mail now, i have to work ;-))
17:54.14Stskeepsklaptrap is kinda neat :>
17:54.34CutMeOwnThroatdebernardis_, define "rogue"
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17:54.58lcukflash
17:55.06GeneralAntillesandre__, klaptrap is good.
17:56.30debernardis_cutmeounthroat: something left by a closed app - eating up your cpu cycles!
17:56.55CutMeOwnThroatok... you mean rogue == trying to use 100% CPU
17:57.42andre__GeneralAntilles, now are there any sexual, racist, facist, non-pc, whatever meanings in US slang that i'm not aware of, you powerful man with a mothertongue? ;-)
17:57.44andre__(happened way too often when talking to a female friend in english that i was asked "you know the meaning of what you just said?")
17:57.48debernardis_yes - something that eats up your cpu and battery while your tablet is in your pocket (and btw makes it real hot)
17:58.15lcukshould an <li> tag have a closing branch?
17:58.27*** join/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host86-145-149-11.range86-145.btcentralplus.com)
17:58.47*** part/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host86-145-149-11.range86-145.btcentralplus.com)
17:59.04debernardis_lcuk: http://www.w3schools.com/TAGS/tag_li.asp
17:59.20lcukdebernardis_, :D thanks
17:59.25GeneralAntillesandre__, http://www.answers.com/topic/claptrap
17:59.27lcuknow i know how to check other things
17:59.43GeneralAntillesandre__, there's also "the clap" but that's a c.
17:59.56*** join/#maemo |dl9pf| (n=dl9pf@p548389F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
17:59.58debernardis_lcuk %^)
18:00.44*** join/#maemo pH5_ (n=ph5@e178199119.adsl.alicedsl.de)
18:01.00andre__GeneralAntilles, yeah, but there's a second definition at urbandictionary that i definitely dislike :)
18:01.36GeneralAntillesHehe
18:01.41GeneralAntilleswith a c. :P
18:01.45CutMeOwnThroatoh, maemo as a whole is non-free... I should't have been surprised
18:01.52GeneralAntillesBesides, that makes it exciting. :D
18:02.15StskeepsCutMeOwnThroat: 80-20% :P
18:02.19GeneralAntilles^
18:02.26pupnikhttp://rapidshare.com/files/232189109/Unknown2.mp3.html  listen to this track - ripped form zenfm - please help identify
18:02.49crashanddieandre__: did you just say you didn't have a mothertongue?
18:03.05crashanddieandre__: you weren't taught an initial language?
18:03.07crashanddieCold man.
18:04.06CutMeOwnThroatStskeeps, I was wondering if I could put it in an qemu image and then (I think there's a build environment) use that to compile debian packages, so I don't have to have a full debian chroot around... now I wonder if I'm even allowed to do that :)
18:04.25*** join/#maemo slonopotamus__ (n=slonopot@80.90.124.131)
18:04.33debernardis_pupnik: Evolution - Water
18:04.35*** join/#maemo ijon_ (n=ijon@dhcp173-24-red.yandex.net)
18:04.42StskeepsCutMeOwnThroat: yeah, well, that's the problem of mer..
18:04.45Stskeepser. maemo.
18:04.58lcukheh
18:05.06pupnikdebernardis_: that is the song track!?!?
18:05.10torkianohello, I have problems with my autotools configuration in maemo: I get this error:
18:05.19StskeepsCutMeOwnThroat: http://nchipin.kos.to/mer-qemu-beagle.png :)
18:05.23crashanddietorkiano: amazing error
18:05.26torkianocp: cannot stat `INSTALL': No such file or directory
18:05.27torkianoautomake-1.9: cannot open < gnome-doc-utils.make: No such file or directory
18:05.43debernardis_pupnik: identified by Shazam Id (/me has never listened that before)
18:05.54crashanddietorkiano: make sure you uncompressed everything
18:06.00pupnikamazing!  thanks! thanks! thanks!
18:06.01crashanddietorkiano: and make sure you're in the right directory
18:06.13debernardis_pupnik :-)
18:06.45GeneralAntillespupnik, there's some web app out there that'll do that for you.
18:07.00timeless_mbpfwiw, slashdot doesn't work well w/ n81 8gb either
18:07.09timeless_mbp(nokia "open browser")
18:07.15crashanddietimeless_mbp: did you get the email?
18:07.16GeneralAntilles<PROTECTED>
18:07.20pupniki am so happy thanks
18:07.28fiferboylbt: If I have a combobox with enough items to need a scroolbar, neither finger scrolling or the scrollbar works
18:07.39GeneralAntillespupnik, google IEatBrainz
18:08.00pupnik? ok
18:08.02debernardis_general: thanks
18:08.14pupniktrying to find the cd
18:08.20crashanddiethat song sounds like shit
18:08.28pupnik"evolution - water" is a terrible song title for google
18:08.31timeless_mbpcrashanddie: which email?
18:08.32CutMeOwnThroatStskeeps, guess I'd get rid of it for that... but I think it'll take ages to get all hardware to work including the powersaving stuff
18:08.35pupnik:(
18:08.48crashanddietimeless_mbp: the one from Stephane A?
18:08.50timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: i'm trying to go back in scrollback and read your comments about bugzilla, but my irc client isn't cooperating
18:08.53debernardis_pupnik: evolution is the title - water is the author
18:08.55timeless_mbpcrashanddie: i don't think so
18:08.58timeless_mbplooking
18:09.06timeless_mbpoh, yes
18:09.16timeless_mbpbut i was staring at in:span instead of in:inbox
18:09.17timeless_mbp:o
18:09.20GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, I want the bug layout to fit 800px so it doesn't scroll on the tablets.
18:09.36GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, also: find a way to use Status whiteboard usefully.
18:09.44andre__crashanddie, i just stated that GA has one. it does not imply that i don't have one ;-)
18:09.53CutMeOwnThroatStskeeps, I wouldn't mind that it's non-free if I could do all the things that I could do with it if it's free.... hehe... but I guess if I could it wouldn't be non-free :-P
18:09.56torkianocrashanddie, my application compiles without problems in Ubuntu and I porting it to maemo
18:09.57timeless_mbpcrashanddie: ok, thanks for poking me, i'll reply now, it sounds doable
18:10.00crashanddieandre__: actually, it does ;)
18:10.32crashanddietimeless_mbp: I had someone poking me asking if you were getting cold feet, lol
18:10.36andre__crashanddie, your logic is borken ;-)
18:10.49crashanddieandre__: as is your spellchecker
18:11.01andre__nottattall!
18:11.04pupnikfound it http://www.discogs.com/Various-The-Chillout-Session-Summer-Collection-2004/release/475334
18:11.07GeneralAntillesandre__, no, really, he's right' :P
18:11.13pupnikhuge props to debernardis_
18:11.36crashanddieGeneralAntilles: he implied that you were a powerful man because you had a mothertongue
18:11.58andre__+1
18:12.09crashanddie"please enlighten me with your knowledge, oh powerful man with a mothertongue"
18:12.17crashanddie(slightly rephrased)
18:12.18GeneralAntillescrashanddie, clearly I am a powerful man, although having a mothertongue is the least of my many wonderful attributes. :P
18:12.32crashanddieGeneralAntilles: talk to the clit
18:12.32timeless_mbppokes gmail a few times in order to reply to make crashanddie happy
18:12.32crashanddie:D
18:12.34andre__...and a funny one with lots of nice words. e.g. i never know how to translate "drive-by-shooting" to another language ;-))
18:12.47thuxis it known who was lead designer or something in charge of maemo? who decide tablets software, who made maemo?
18:13.04Stskeepsthux: it was forged in the fires of valhalla
18:13.08GeneralAntillesthux, Ari Jaaksi
18:13.20Stskeepsclose enough
18:13.21Stskeeps:P
18:13.24RST38hGeneral: Sure about it?
18:13.30thuxthanks
18:13.31GeneralAntillesWell, he's VP of Maemo SW
18:13.42GeneralAntillesThere aint really anybody else that fits that bill closely enough.
18:14.03RST38hWhat about guys who designed the original 77x0 software?
18:14.15GeneralAntillesHildon != Maemo
18:14.20thuxi thought it was possible kate but good that wasn't
18:15.36timeless_mbpcrashanddie: ok, replied. thanks for poking
18:15.48crashanddiethux: some say he appears on high-value stamps in finland. Some say he naturally faces the magnetic north. Some say for some reason he's allergic to French people (sorry dneary)
18:16.12pupnik75 fucking euros for the cd on amazon.de  debernardis_ http://www.amazon.de/Chillout-Session-Summer-2004-Various/dp/B0000DJEQ3/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1242152116&sr=8-3
18:16.15timeless_mbpthux: as far as we understand, hardware choices are beyond the control of anyone who is remotely visible from Maemo Software
18:16.38timeless_mbpand in fact, most of us working in Maemo Software don't have any access or ability to remotely influence anything hardware related (unfortunately)
18:16.49lcuk:O :O >>> Ferrari have confirmed their intention to pull out of Formula One from next season as the battle over the FIA's proposed new rules escalates. << :O :O
18:17.06GeneralAntilleslol
18:17.14GeneralAntillesFormula 1 is such a joke these days
18:17.25*** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman)
18:17.28GeneralAntillesI say they should remove most of the rules.
18:17.42GeneralAntillesEach car should cost at least 500 million dollars.
18:17.44lcuki like the boost button they added (H) ive had one for ages on playstation, happy to see them finally catching up with reality
18:17.48Stskeepstimeless_mbp: probably after a bunch of fistfights between ui designers and hw engineers :P
18:18.17timeless_mbpwrt software, Ari is the public face who i suppose runs the group, but software decisions are of course proposed by people under him
18:18.23timeless_mbpsome of those people are theoretically visible
18:18.31timeless_mbphowever it seems that there's a new group doing a lot of the proposals
18:18.39timeless_mbpe.g. the guy talking to me now in this UI Brief
18:18.43StskeepsThe Next Generation?
18:18.43Stskeeps:P
18:18.45timeless_mbpi'd never encountered him before
18:18.54timeless_mbpthey sadly have no public presence
18:19.05debernardis_pupnik you're kidding :-)
18:19.07timeless_mbpbut in 5 years, we can try to give you a face so you can flame them
18:19.29CutMeOwnThroatGeneralAntilles, is there a price limit on formula 1 cars? :)
18:19.35CutMeOwnThroatGeneralAntilles, that would actually be pretty cool
18:19.38*** join/#maemo igagis (n=ivan@ns2.vsev.lanck.net)
18:19.39debernardis_pupnik it's on the soulseek network - just search with nicotine plus!
18:19.57GeneralAntillesCutMeOwnThroat, "build whatever you want as long as it costs less than 5 mil"
18:20.04GeneralAntillesThat would be much more creative.
18:20.07CutMeOwnThroatGeneralAntilles, "building costs for the car may not exceed $100000"
18:20.31GeneralAntillesHow much R&D money factors into that cost would be important, though.
18:20.45CutMeOwnThroatthat would be excluded
18:20.59*** join/#maemo rzr (n=RzR@lav35-1-82-236-136-171.fbx.proxad.net)
18:21.01CutMeOwnThroatimpossible to factor in
18:21.09toggles_wanyone know how to get maemo-pan working on the n810??
18:21.13CutMeOwnThroatstill, would be fun - perhaps make that $30000 or so
18:21.16crashanddieI'm probably stating the obvious here guys, but you do realise you don't get a budget before you have a project, right?
18:21.36thuxGeneralAntilles: what is good race serie then, indy nascar?
18:21.57timeless_mbpcrucifies the current presenter (Again)
18:22.01GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, too many people without public faces is a rather obnoxious problem with Maemo.
18:22.02crashanddietimeless_mbp: pm
18:22.10GeneralAntillesthux, I love A/LMS
18:22.33GeneralAntillesWRC is consistently pretty good.
18:22.41StskeepsGeneralAntilles: heh, and on the contrary, i'm deadly afraid noone will take me seriously after meeting me irl ;)
18:22.46GeneralAntillesThe GT3 and Touring Car series are also bundles of fun
18:23.08GeneralAntillesStskeeps, just don't wear those slotted glasses of yours. :P
18:23.21Stskeepshehe
18:24.02timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: it's a problem for us too!
18:24.06*** join/#maemo codzard (n=nehag@117.198.98.45)
18:24.24GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, I'm really bored with doing everything through Quim.
18:24.39GeneralAntillesI mean, Quim's a great guy and all but playing telephone back and forth wears thin rather quickly.
18:24.54Stskeepswell, we have daniel too nowadays
18:24.58Stskeepswe should use him more i guess?
18:25.35GeneralAntillesWell, we only use Quim because he's the only person answering the goddamn questions. . . .
18:25.54RST38hThere is also another guy in Maemo forums
18:26.00RST38hPeter?
18:26.04GeneralAntillesDaniel's welcome to step in, but I doubt he's established enough there to feel comfortable running interference.
18:26.27GeneralAntillesRST38h, Quim's boss, he's a bit high up to be getting down and dirty in Bugzilla.
18:26.31timeless_mbpthere's also a peter
18:26.39timeless_mbpbut none of them are really bugzilla people
18:26.45timeless_mbpgetting engineers into bugzilla is a challenge
18:26.58timeless_mbpbut given that *i* an *engineer* here don't have visibility to some parts of the UI team
18:27.11timeless_mbpi couldn't even find the right person to invite in some cases
18:27.12GeneralAntillesThank god for people like Eero and timeless. ;)
18:27.17timeless_mbpnote that you stilly have roope
18:27.23timeless_mbpwho is still involved in ui
18:27.54Stskeepsyeah, true
18:28.36timeless_mbpthere's also at times one or two people from mail
18:28.43timeless_mbpand i think one or two people from chat/rtcom
18:28.53GeneralAntillesThe Modest screencast is really rockin'. If everything else turns out in that slickness ballpark I think Fremantle is going to be pretty good.
18:28.57Stskeepsthere's also a bunch of contractors in here
18:29.08*** join/#maemo john_G (n=john@host81-159-151-231.range81-159.btcentralplus.com)
18:29.13timeless_mbpthere's also someone from GnuPNP or whatever which is basically multimedia
18:29.17timeless_mbpand people from Bluetooth
18:29.20crashanddiemodest screencast?
18:29.25GeneralAntillesICD people pop in
18:29.26timeless_mbpwe're not quite as bad as it seems
18:29.33penguinbaitOCD people
18:29.38timeless_mbpbut indeed the UI team hides too much
18:29.41GeneralAntillesPatrik, etc.
18:29.47timeless_mbpyep
18:29.53timeless_mbpbtw, he's like me
18:29.57crashanddieGeneralAntilles: link to screencast?
18:29.58GeneralAntillescrashanddie, Yerga stuck it on YouTube.
18:30.00timeless_mbphe yells at people internally
18:30.01GeneralAntillesHang on
18:30.09timeless_mbpexcept, he doesn't get in trouble for doing it, and gets better results
18:30.11GeneralAntillesArs linked it from their beta SDK article, too.
18:30.30GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, may have something to do with that (what's the bug number?) bug. :D
18:31.21GeneralAntilleshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-D-J0Y7ufM
18:31.40*** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@200.184.118.130)
18:32.43GeneralAntillesAh, right, 2383: http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2368
18:32.44*** join/#maemo VDVsx_ (n=valerio@bl5-200-1.dsl.telepac.pt)
18:32.55GeneralAntilless/83/68
18:34.41VDVsx_GeneralAntilles, the modest l&F is already available in last SDK updates, everything is more shiny now :P
18:34.56crashanddieGeneralAntilles: oh my
18:35.22timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: ooh, that's fixed?
18:35.22GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, it doesn't get mentioned enough, but please do mention how much the community (particularly the council if anybody cares ;)) appreciates the public participation. :)
18:36.01timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: um
18:36.03timeless_mbphttp://maemo.org/profile/list?org_openpsa_qbpager_net_nehmer_account_list_page=1
18:36.10timeless_mbptimeless timeless - Nokia 930
18:36.17*** join/#maemo harbaum_ (n=harbaum@i59F4B126.versanet.de)
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18:36.20timeless_mbpthe - is still there
18:36.24timeless_mbpam i waiting for an upgrade?
18:36.32GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, not at this point
18:36.36GeneralAntillesFeel free to REOPEN
18:37.17timeless_mbpreopen or new bug?
18:37.25GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, up to you, I guess.
18:37.36timeless_mbpdoes anyone know it was "fixed"?
18:38.03GeneralAntillesIt may have changed again with the Newstyle profile update
18:38.09GeneralAntillesI don't recall, honestly.
18:40.31debernardis_bye
18:41.48timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: Bug 4537 has been added to the database
18:42.02Stskeepssits down and begins the boring task of making cph meeting presentation.
18:42.38GeneralAntilles"Hi, my name is Carsten, and this is Mer"
18:42.40GeneralAntilles<hacking>
18:46.54*** join/#maemo ph5 (n=ph5@e178192006.adsl.alicedsl.de)
18:48.21penguinbaitHi Carsten!
18:49.17penguinbaitMy names penguinbait and I'm and alcoholic
18:58.36CutMeOwnThroatGeneralAntilles,  is it? I thought Ryan
19:00.05*** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at)
19:00.40GeneralAntillesCutMeOwnThroat, I'm quoting Stskeeps making his Mer presentation.
19:00.58CutMeOwnThroatright
19:01.24CutMeOwnThroatwasn't aware HE had nearly the same name
19:01.32GeneralAntillesAs?
19:01.38CutMeOwnThroatme
19:01.45CutMeOwnThroator I
19:01.48GeneralAntillesAh
19:01.50Stskeepsyeah, i'm a c
19:01.51Stskeeps:P
19:02.33CutMeOwnThroatthere's a guy here that has the nick karsten
19:02.37CutMeOwnThroatnow that's irritating
19:02.43*** join/#maemo ttmrichter__ (n=ttmricht@59.172.141.100)
19:04.03Stskeepshehe
19:04.46*** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@f049003246.adsl.alicedsl.de)
19:04.46GeneralAntillesguenther is Karsten.
19:04.52GeneralAntillesGot a lot of you bastards, I guess.
19:06.50CutMeOwnThroatI always thought it was a rare name
19:07.07timeless_mbppokes crashanddie_
19:07.10CutMeOwnThroatwhen I went to school, there were up to 3 Daniels  in my class
19:07.33CutMeOwnThroat(which I guess is handy for a teacher)
19:08.22timeless_mbpCutMeOwnThroat: i had that problem in elementary school :)
19:08.32timeless_mbpand of course, the collision resolution sucks
19:08.36timeless_mbpDaniel => Danny => Dan
19:08.43timeless_mbpon average each person responds to all 3
19:08.44VDVsxCutMeOwnThroat, my high school class had 7 Ana's :P
19:08.52CutMeOwnThroathehe
19:09.44CutMeOwnThroattimeless_mbp, type of thing is language dependent, though
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19:14.01CutMeOwnThroatVDVsx, ANA, PAY ATTENTION!
19:14.10*** join/#maemo heinz (n=heinz@77-23-221-41-dynip.superkabel.de)
19:17.32VDVsxCutMeOwnThroat,lol, the teachers had to use always two names when they needed to claim the attention of one of the seven Ana's :)
19:18.40VDVsxlucly two of them have the same second name, very funny :)
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19:28.42GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, we had a lot of Ryans in my friend group in school so we went with Ryansub0, Ryansub1, etc. ;)
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19:44.11penguinbaitpeace and penguins
19:47.06*** join/#maemo FilipLinux4BE (n=filip@77.109.122.141)
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19:47.55lcukhi VDVsx \o
19:48.21*** join/#maemo pH5_ (n=ph5@e178198203.adsl.alicedsl.de)
19:48.32VDVsxhello lcuk
19:48.38lcukare you doin much with bluemaemo at the moment or is it in hibernation
19:51.58GeneralAntillesDid we ever get freakin' HID?
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19:52.46lcukVDVsx, im asking because ive got an n800 here that would be really good to use with my n810 :)
19:53.04lcuk(that is if BM is available for os2007
19:53.11lcukits lying almost unused at the moment
19:53.20rm_youlcuk: ?
19:53.28GeneralAntilleslcuk, install a real OS on it.
19:53.29lcuklong story short: wont flash
19:53.33rm_youlcuk: why is your n800 using os2007? >_>
19:53.34rm_youoh.
19:53.37rm_youlcuk: fix it
19:53.41rm_you>_>
19:53.58lcuklong story short (1): the brains in the chan tried and nothing we could do could do it
19:54.10rm_youfail
19:54.12lcukhiya rm :)
19:54.14GeneralAntillessrsly
19:54.16rm_yousup :)
19:54.16*** part/#maemo stv0 (n=steffen@dslb-084-058-235-213.pools.arcor-ip.net)
19:54.20GeneralAntillesyeah, hi, rm_you.
19:54.23lcukim smiling :)
19:54.29rm_youlcuk: can you plug it in to a linux device? :P
19:54.39lcukrm_you, x41 runs ubuntu
19:54.49rm_youlcuk: and give me a shell account with root access and your IP? :P
19:54.55GeneralAntilleslcuk, flash the kernel and initfs from fiasco-flasher and boot Mer?
19:54.57lcuksure :)
19:55.02rm_youlcuk: :P
19:55.22rm_youi forget, you going to denmark?
19:55.28rm_youchecks the site
19:55.31lcukrm_you, i checked everything on the usb and nothing shows at flash time, it just sits there with the damned spanner
19:55.36lcukyeah
19:55.40rm_youcool.
19:55.46GeneralAntilleslcuk, try a different cable?
19:55.47lcukbut then in the desktop it shows on the usb
19:55.50lcuksame cable
19:55.54rm_youlcuk: let me at it
19:55.58GeneralAntillesAlso, flash from Linux.
19:56.00lcukok ill bring it
19:56.00rm_youyes
19:56.07lcuk:) thanks
19:56.07rm_youjust let me at it NOW in linux :P
19:56.10rm_youi don't need to be there
19:56.15lcukno
19:56.17rm_youthat's what ssh is for :P
19:56.19lcuklol i was joking
19:56.21rm_youpiff
19:56.27rm_youi wasn't :P
19:56.34rm_youstill aren't :P
19:56.37lcukslaps u with a very shaky binary playtest
19:57.15VDVsxlcuk, I will hack a bit on BM in the weekend, port it to fremantle/mer probably, now I have to work in my thesis :(
19:57.28lcukdont worry VDVsx
19:57.32rm_youwell it is about time for me to fixxify my server anyway
19:57.47VDVsxlcuk, but what you specifically want/need ?
19:57.53lcuknothing specific
19:58.19lcukjust poking you cos i know some people wanted additional stuff
19:58.25rm_youhrm i was gonna do a backup of the important stuff on my root drive, but... well, as i just recovered from a HD crash and had to image the dying drive to my raid... i guess i have a full backup :P
19:58.28rm_youso... time to reinstall :P
19:58.43lcuk<PROTECTED>
19:59.48VDVsxlcuk, tell them to submit features requests :P
20:00.03lcuki saw GeneralAntilles submit one to you a minute ago :P
20:00.46lcukand you dont wanna piss him off, not with his star trek/beatles fetishes going on, he will come at you with a yellow submarine and attack with photon torpedoes
20:00.59locutusfap
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20:05.41GeneralAntilleslcuk, proton torpedoes.
20:05.45VDVsxGeneralAntilles, what is your problem with HID ?
20:06.10GeneralAntillesVDVsx, did we get HID or is it still serial-only?
20:06.24*** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=CBabbage@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net)
20:07.18lcukGeneralAntilles, you did not flunk star fleet, those proton things were a long time ago and very far away.
20:07.26VDVsxGeneralAntilles, bluemaemo always used HID protocol, dunno want you mean about serial
20:07.30lcuknowadays you use photons
20:07.47GeneralAntillesVDVsx, I recall something about it not being compatible with OS X because of serial or somesuch.
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20:11.49VDVsxGeneralAntilles, it only work for some MAC OS users, I don't have a mac to test, apple likes to do some changes to standard protocols :) (and also I can miss something in my specification)
20:12.19*** join/#maemo Dantonic (n=user@m580e36d0.tmodns.net)
20:13.03VDVsxMac instructions here: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=253682&postcount=196
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20:16.23VDVsxlcuk, you probably can use BM in os2007, since canola is there, all the UI deps should be satisfied, dunno which bluez version os2007 have
20:16.44lcukcool, next time i drag it out ill have a look and let you know
20:19.31VDVsxlcuk, thanks :)
20:23.36*** part/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@190.2.193.222)
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20:27.43VDVsxhttp://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/personal-menu/    <------ anyone can confirm a bug in the comments layout ?
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20:51.32GAN800wonders if he'll hear from Apple tomorrow.
20:51.40*** join/#maemo simon_ (n=simon@cpe90-146-223-204.liwest.at)
20:55.35keesjVDVsx: what kind of bug , looks kinda good to me
21:01.12VDVsxkeesj, something like this: http://www.valeriovalerio.org/images/maemo_comments.png
21:01.21VDVsxI'm on FF 3
21:01.39X-FadeVDVsx: Is it still broken?
21:01.44X-FadeVDVsx: I was working on it ;)
21:01.55GAN800lol
21:02.13GAN800X-Fade put in some venetian blinds. Like 'em?
21:02.38X-FadeYeah, only the unfolding mechanism didn't work right ;)
21:03.18X-FadeNo but seriously, there was a missing clear: both ;)
21:03.29VDVsxX-Fade, well, is the first time I saw this issue, yesterday everything looked fine to me
21:03.51X-FadeVDVsx: Shift reload and it should look better now ..
21:03.59GAN800X-Fade, what do you think about blocking out an hour or two for one more web design meeting just to mop up the last few niggling issues and sync up with Talk?
21:04.32VDVsxX-Fade, fixed :)
21:04.54X-FadeGAN800: Somewhere next week then. I first need to have some serious bugs fixed.
21:05.22GAN800X-Fade, whenever's good for you since you'll be doing most of the work. ;)
21:06.02X-FadeWell, I'll gladly hand over the CSS work to somebody else..
21:06.10*** join/#maemo christefano (n=christef@c-71-232-116-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
21:06.50X-FadeAnyway, time to call it a day.
21:07.18*** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman)
21:08.29crashanddie_X-Fade, slaap ze
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21:22.48lardmanah good, only 279 functions to decode
21:26.21woglindelardman?
21:26.45lardmanpvr.ko
21:28.33woglindehehe
21:28.38woglindepowervr driver
21:28.51lardmanyep
21:28.59lcukyou have the 2420 one
21:29.04lcuk+?
21:29.25lardman2430
21:29.29lardmanbut got to start somewhere
21:29.59lardmancorrect that, 279-6 to go
21:30.16lardman273 for the mental-arithmetically challenged :)
21:30.50woglindelardman what you are trying?
21:30.58lardmanrev eng the driver
21:33.22GAN800lardman's tablet is going to explode.
21:34.18lardman's head will explode first, trying to turn the sets of gotos into something more like C
21:34.50GAN800Well, of you get it to work we'll get you a Freaking Medal.
21:35.31lardmancool, well I reckon I'll go for 25fns per week, so about 10 weeks' worth
21:35.53lardmanso I hope to have something ready for the summit
21:36.29lardmanand that's just the driver, the arm-side client library + opengl libs also need to be "ported"
21:36.30woglindehm
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21:36.42woglindeyes
21:36.49GAN800Somebody needs to design a maemo.org Freaking Medal just in case.
21:37.05*** join/#maemo christefano_ (n=christef@c-71-232-116-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
21:37.08woglindebut powervr stuff is hot topic at intel
21:37.23lardmanhacking at something which is a hot topic worries me
21:37.33pupnik_i think Stskeeps should get a medal
21:37.43woglindelardman and political see poulsbo chipset
21:37.47lardmanjust give him more hw :)
21:38.18lardmanmoves onto HASH_delete()
21:38.32lardmanyay, a short one!
21:40.02Stskeepsi'll be happy with a mer tshirt that isn't in comic sans font.
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21:40.20crashanddie_void HASH_delete() { delete HASH; }
21:40.28crashanddie_<< inline
21:41.40GeneralAntillespupnik_, we're just giving Stskeeps a fist in the teeth. :P
21:41.43lardmancrashanddie_: I've got 272 that look just like that! :)
21:42.05crashanddie_lardman, which module?
21:42.45lardmanpvr.ko
21:42.51crashanddie_heh
21:43.01crashanddie_well, you can always send it to me, I'd love to help :)
21:43.12crashanddie_(if you could send it shipped on a device, as mine is broken)
21:43.17crashanddie_cheers
21:43.22lardman:)
21:43.27lardmanonto HostFreeMem()
21:43.43GeneralAntillescrashanddie_, still haven't bothered replacing?
21:44.23crashanddie_if (Host.equals("Oprah")) System.err.println("OH MY GOD SHE'S HERE, LET ME OUT OF HERE!!! PLEAAAAAAASE");
21:44.29crashanddie_lardman, next
21:44.54crashanddie_oh, Free "mem"
21:44.57crashanddie_I misread that
21:45.16*** join/#maemo StsN800 (n=user@84.238.94.243)
21:45.27crashanddie_GeneralAntilles, I think the battery is dead on this one
21:45.39crashanddie_I plug it in, it just shows "NOKIA" and then the screen dies
21:46.10crashanddie_if I do a battery cycle, it will do the previously mentioned cycle a few times, and then die again
21:46.26crashanddie_I left it plugged in for a few days, so I don't think it's charging anything anymore
21:46.36GeneralAntillescrashanddie_, got anything else to charge the batt in?
21:46.43GeneralAntillesThen maybe try reflashing?
21:46.56crashanddie_no it's definitely out of juice
21:47.02crashanddie_I meant the battery isn't holding any charge anymore
21:47.32crashanddieI may have allowed it to run out of juice completely a few times
21:47.45crashanddieGeneralAntilles, why do you think I want to get a Smart Q5 so badly?
21:47.57pupnik_i don't like discord in #maemo
21:48.14pupnik_we all want linux to succeed on portable devices
21:48.28crashanddieI want Windows XP on my n810
21:48.49pupnik_no
21:49.02crashanddie(well, up till now most people seem fine with running bloated pieces of software running on underpowered devices, I'm just continuing the trend)
21:49.16lardmanha, take that HostFreeMem()!
21:49.20crashanddies/em/emeed/
21:49.27crashanddiecock
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21:49.47GeneralAntillescrashanddie, SmartQ5 is sacrilege, though. :P
21:50.02lardmanbut at least it has some open docs... :)
21:50.20crashanddieGeneralAntilles, it's buck cheap
21:50.33crashanddieGeneralAntilles, £120 shipping + taxes included, seriously?
21:51.26lardmanuurgh, MemHeapFree() looks like a bit of a bugger
21:51.38crashanddielardman, twitter blog about it
21:51.52lardmantrying to stop me polluting the channel? ;)
21:51.57lbtcrashanddie: £120  url ?
21:52.44crashanddiesee
21:52.44crashanddiehang on
21:52.44xnt14xD, this really made my day:   http://gizmodo.com/5251073/what-is-this
21:53.43crashanddielbt, http://www.eletroworld.cn/
21:54.38lbthmmm yes, We prefer Western Union transfer, it is very fast, you can learn how to use it via http://www.westernunion.com , for our information for the transfer, please contact us
21:54.45crashanddiexnt14, the first comment is the best one though
21:54.51crashanddiexnt14, "Apparently it won't blend?"
21:54.55xnt14:P
21:54.59crashanddielbt, hmm, hadn't seen that
21:55.44lardmando a google for the smartq 7, someone's ordered from them (via PayPal I hasten to add) and is waiting to see if it turns up, etc
21:56.49lbtlardman... could be OK... just cautious...
21:57.17lbtheck small business etc etc... but it's a fine line between that and crook ;)
21:57.37lardmanyeah, I'm equally cautious, and the smartq 7 isn't in production yet I don't think anyway
21:57.49lardmanso he's supposed to be getting a pre-production model
21:57.59lardmanlooks for the link
21:58.59lardmanhttp://www.umpcportal.com/2009/05/smart-q7-tablet-%E2%80%93-live-pics-and-availability
21:59.38crashanddielol
22:00.30crashanddiecolleague just sent a 5 pages long email that was basically an RFI, and at the end he goes "right, going to grab myself another drink. <newline><newline>Any recommendations welcome"
22:01.08crashanddiewe just had a shitload of drunken emails going "Gin tonic", "Whiskey", "London Pride", etc
22:03.00crashanddieam I drunk or was that at least a little bit funny and is no-one looking at their screen, cuz I nearly pissed myself laughing.
22:03.02crashanddie?
22:04.18lardmanconsiders getting a drink to see if that helps ;)
22:05.02*** join/#maemo kynde (n=ircman@193.64.14.218)
22:05.30lardmandon't worry, it was quite amusing anyway
22:05.32lardman:)
22:05.33lbtsmiled
22:07.04lardman13 down, but these are the easy ones, the destruction fns
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22:34.59andrewfblackAnyone know of a Linux Distribution similar to Windows Home server, or do I need to just take a copy of ubuntu and install stuff my self decided not to pay for whs once my trail runs out
22:38.55lardmannever used whs I'm afraid, I'd say just go with customising Ubuntu
22:39.15CutMeOwnThroatwindows home server...
22:39.20CutMeOwnThroatthe things that exist on earth
22:39.32CutMeOwnThroatshakes his head
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22:40.28CutMeOwnThroatwindows invented the home server, eh?
22:40.30CutMeOwnThroatamazing
22:41.55andrewfblackCutMeOwnThroat: nope windows didn't invent the home server, but its a nice packaged up was of installing stuff, I looked at Amahi but wasn't sure if there was something better guess I'll just go about installing everything my self
22:42.19CutMeOwnThroatI wouldn't use something that is based on debian unstable for something serverish that runs on older hardware, though
22:43.06andrewfblackwhat would you recommend CutMeOwnThroat?  Using an almost brand new computer for my server
22:43.57CutMeOwnThroatI just skipped over http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_server which also notes that it's usually older HW
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22:44.39*** part/#maemo FilipLinux4BE (n=filip@77.109.122.141)
22:44.55CutMeOwnThroatdunno, I use debian anyway - but for a server which probably doesn't need the newest packages of everything I'd think other people also prefer stable
22:45.08*** join/#maemo altc (n=AltC@84.92.70.37)
22:45.28CutMeOwnThroatfor a desktop I see the point
22:46.37CutMeOwnThroat... although I'm usually using backports for the perhaps 5 packages I care to have in an up-to-date version
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23:03.12lardmanhttp://www.coranac.com/tonc/text/asm.htm seems like a good overview
23:03.20lardmanof ARM ASM that is
23:04.01*** join/#maemo alecrim (n=alecrim@201008204038.user.veloxzone.com.br)
23:05.21*** join/#maemo GuySoft (n=guysoft@93-172-155-132.bb.netvision.net.il)
23:06.26lcuklardman, you are evil and a temptress
23:07.08lardmanwell it does look pretty good
23:07.11lardman:)
23:08.30lcukindeed it does
23:08.41lcukhas always had a soft spot for sane looking asm
23:08.58lcuksane == !x86 ;)
23:13.48lardmanhmm, not sure the words sane and asm should ever appear in the same sentence :)
23:13.49*** join/#maemo torkiano (n=torkiano@213.60.154.118)
23:14.17lcukyeah lardman, they are lego blocks :)
23:14.21lcukloves to build
23:14.26derfI don't need an overview, I need nitty-gritty.
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23:14.57*** join/#maemo GuySoft (n=guysoft@93-172-155-132.bb.netvision.net.il)
23:14.58lcuk:( derf, whats up that you need asm so badly?
23:15.05lardmanwell it gives enough info about what you're going to see so that you can look elsewhere
23:15.06derflcuk: Theora.
23:15.12lardmanotherwise it's a bit overwhelming
23:15.40lcuknoble cause derf :) hope you win
23:15.51lardmanhmm, well in that case you need the ARM manual for the chip with the timings for the operations, etc
23:16.28GuySoftis it only here or is google giving 500 errors?
23:16.42lardmanworks for me (.co.uk tho)
23:16.57lcukhttp://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/google.com
23:17.05*** join/#maemo timeless_mbp (n=timeless@guest-226.mountainview.mozilla.com)
23:17.28lcukGuySoft, google mail was a bit sluggish earlier
23:18.12GuySofti get 502 Bad Gateway
23:18.18GuySoftnginx/0.6.35
23:18.55GuySoftstrange. gmail.com works. google.com does not
23:19.05GuySoftlooks like an error in our ISP or something
23:19.08GuySoftwhats nginx?
23:19.18lardmanderf: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0375a/Babcaiah.html
23:19.40lardmanderf: integer only code, or vfp, or the simd extensions (or the whole lot)?
23:19.40GuySoftclusties it and not googles..
23:19.45xnt14Guysoft: nginx is a web server like apache
23:19.55derfSIMD, primarily.
23:20.01derfNo floating point.
23:20.03GuySoftcarnt be google runes on that..
23:21.04lardmanhmm, aren't the simd instructions for fp only...?
23:21.39lcuksimd are only for non-thumb compilation i believe
23:22.08lardmanyeah, well that's expected
23:22.34derflardman: That was not my understanding, but I know very little about it.
23:22.41lcukdoes gcc compile to thumb or non thumb on diablo by default?
23:22.48lcuksimd is integer isnt it
23:22.52lcukupto 128bit
23:22.53lardmanderf: what the thumb bit or the simd bit?
23:23.00derfThe SIMD bit.
23:23.04lardmanno idea, I can't seem to find it in the manual now
23:23.20lardmanlots of nice saturated add/etc instructions in the normal set though
23:23.25GeneralAntilles#beagle has some NEON people.
23:25.03lardmanderf: cycle timings and interlock behaviour will be of interest eventually
23:25.09derflardman: Yes.
23:26.04derfFor Intel I've got big tables with timings for every processor, which are exceedingly useful.
23:27.08lardmanah ok, SIMD have an S on the front, e.g. SADD
23:27.27lardman16 or 8 bit data looks like
23:27.46lardmanhttp://www.dspdesignline.com/howto/197005500;jsessionid=TZ3EK3Q5X0HYYQSNDLRCKH0CJUNN2JVN?pgno=2
23:28.23derfHmm, I'm going to need 32 in a few places.
23:28.40lardmanNEON has the large size SIMD instructions
23:29.06derfWhat hardware actually supports NEON?
23:29.13lardmanthe Cortex
23:29.19lardmanOMAP3
23:29.27lardman(e.g.)
23:29.40derfWell, video was never going to work properly with N8x0's LCD controller anyway.
23:29.53lardman:)
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23:31.22derfI mean, I'm sure 2-way parallelism is nice and all, but...
23:31.50lardmanwell better than nothing
23:32.10derfAnyway, gotta go.
23:32.16lardmanlikewise, getting late
23:32.31lardmancu tomorrow chaps
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23:56.08sarujihello all i am here to find out how to get mer on my n810
23:56.33sarujiany help or direction would be greatly appreciated
23:57.02saruji#join ubuntu
23:59.41torkianosaruji, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Installation#N8x0_Install

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