| 00:00.10 | johnx | this is the chip they use to upsell people :P |
| 00:00.17 | AStorm | not low end - it's just old |
| 00:00.18 | AStorm | :> |
| 00:00.26 | AStorm | Nokia got it as a part of a package deal |
| 00:00.26 | johnx | it's their cheapest one, isn't it? |
| 00:00.37 | AStorm | you get OMAP2 with all the additional stuff |
| 00:00.48 | AStorm | johnx, nope |
| 00:00.53 | AStorm | there are cheaper ones |
| 00:00.58 | johnx | scary |
| 00:01.15 | johnx | even my $20 (with contract) phone gets a gps fix faster |
| 00:01.48 | AStorm | it probably has some older SIRF |
| 00:01.55 | AStorm | those are cheap |
| 00:02.04 | johnx | if course now it's not playing nice. heh. |
| 00:02.10 | *** join/#maemo b-man (n=b-man@pool-71-124-32-204.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 00:02.24 | johnx | hey b-man |
| 00:02.45 | b-man | hello, johnx :) |
| 00:02.48 | AStorm | meh, MTK kicks butt of all the other GPS receivers anyway |
| 00:02.58 | AStorm | but it's not a brand yet :) |
| 00:03.39 | johnx | this is the longest I've ever seen it take to get a fix. Must be performance anxiety ... |
| 00:03.57 | johnx | guess being stuck inside makes a difference :) |
| 00:04.07 | johnx | oh, it just saw a satellite |
| 00:04.11 | AStorm | yes it does |
| 00:04.28 | AStorm | n810's doesn't see a sat from here even with AGPS |
| 00:04.42 | AStorm | it's 3m to a window, brick building though, and a lot of electric noise |
| 00:08.54 | locutus | AStorm: i havent even gotten GPS to work while standing outside in the field, on a unclouded day |
| 00:09.04 | locutus | AStorm: i stood there for 10 minutes, then it just felt to stupid to continue |
| 00:09.10 | AStorm | you mean n810's? |
| 00:09.15 | locutus | n810's internal one yes |
| 00:09.29 | AStorm | w/o AGPS it usually sucked |
| 00:09.35 | AStorm | you had to move for it to get a fix |
| 00:09.39 | locutus | agps? |
| 00:09.55 | AStorm | assisted - downloads ephemeris data from the internet |
| 00:10.09 | AStorm | (given approximate location) |
| 00:10.17 | locutus | tbh, i've just thrown a BT GPS in my backpack |
| 00:10.21 | AStorm | :) |
| 00:10.25 | locutus | it gets a fix in about 5 seconds |
| 00:10.35 | AStorm | which one btw? |
| 00:10.40 | johnx | needs to hack up my phone so my n800 can use its gps... |
| 00:10.40 | locutus | the wayfinder.com one |
| 00:10.44 | AStorm | mhm |
| 00:11.24 | AStorm | I think the internal GPS is lacking proper echo cancellation |
| 00:11.36 | AStorm | that's why when it's not moving, the times to fix are far longer |
| 00:12.00 | luke-jr | O.o? |
| 00:12.17 | AStorm | yes, they are |
| 00:12.27 | AStorm | on the move, slow, it fixes much faster |
| 00:12.41 | AStorm | where slow means like <30 km/h |
| 00:13.06 | AStorm | even walking around is enough |
| 00:13.51 | AStorm | heck, I had it fix (w/o AGPS) in my pocket after 20s |
| 00:14.00 | AStorm | just because I was walking |
| 00:14.33 | AStorm | which was similar to fix times w/ AGPS on |
| 00:15.10 | luke-jr | pretty sure AGPS-less in 20s is impossible |
| 00:17.24 | AStorm | it is possible, if the ephemeris is received fine in first attempt |
| 00:17.54 | AStorm | (the receiver can grab that from a few sats at once) |
| 00:18.09 | AStorm | (that's how the better GPS chips get TTFF so fast) |
| 00:18.45 | luke-jr | AStorm: the ephemeris takes 14 minutes to receive |
| 00:18.48 | luke-jr | over GPS |
| 00:18.55 | AStorm | full, yes |
| 00:18.55 | luke-jr | from 1 sat |
| 00:19.04 | AStorm | but enough to get around, nope |
| 00:19.07 | luke-jr | O.o |
| 00:20.57 | AStorm | you only need current position really |
| 00:21.14 | AStorm | so if you're lucky, a few sats will be broadcasting just that |
| 00:21.31 | luke-jr | hmm |
| 00:26.09 | AStorm | one sat ephemeris transmission takes about 30s |
| 00:27.27 | AStorm | http://www.satellitetrackingsystem.co.uk/satellite_tracking_software.htm - if you really have to know :) |
| 00:29.47 | *** join/#maemo natural_mind (n=vbatts@rrcs-67-78-226-122.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 00:30.34 | *** join/#maemo jacques (n=jacques@nslu2-linux/jacques) |
| 00:33.34 | *** join/#maemo Dantonic (n=user@m350e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 00:34.15 | *** part/#maemo vbatts (n=vbatts@rrcs-67-78-226-122.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 00:35.21 | AStorm | so the minimum TTFF w/o the current almanac is 18s |
| 00:35.58 | AStorm | if you happen to receive from at least 3 different sats the correct 3 subframes |
| 00:38.04 | AStorm | w/ almanac you technically need only parts of subframes 2 and 3 |
| 00:38.31 | AStorm | that's 6-12s |
| 00:38.35 | *** join/#maemo cars__ (n=Cars____@71-82-164-92.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 00:45.37 | b-man | HATES his POS connection >:( |
| 00:45.54 | GeneralAntilles | I've come to the conclusion that what penguinbait really wants is a mass email spaming for every little bit of community minutia that happens to come up. |
| 00:46.44 | GeneralAntilles | b-man, is it Comcast? |
| 00:47.02 | b-man | no, Version |
| 00:47.08 | GeneralAntilles | Ah, fun too. |
| 00:47.16 | johnx | GeneralAntilles, you still having problems with comcast? it's gotten worse here, but it's impossible to search google for anyone with similar problems |
| 00:47.22 | b-man | re: Verison |
| 00:47.25 | GeneralAntilles | Friend of mine got a 20/20 FiOS connection |
| 00:47.27 | johnx | ...because there are too many people with problems... |
| 00:47.40 | GeneralAntilles | They dropped all connections every 15 minutes to keep people from running servers. |
| 00:47.42 | penguinbait | yeah GA |
| 00:47.46 | penguinbait | you pegged it |
| 00:47.52 | penguinbait | I want 5 mailing lists |
| 00:47.56 | b-man | hay penguinbait |
| 00:47.56 | penguinbait | 40 webpages |
| 00:48.01 | penguinbait | 50 wiki pages |
| 00:48.02 | GeneralAntilles | penguinbait, there are 3 mailing lists. |
| 00:48.29 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, dunno, I'm on Brighthouse now again. |
| 00:48.39 | penguinbait | http://maemo.org/community/mailing-lists/ |
| 00:48.45 | penguinbait | looks like 5 to me |
| 00:48.55 | penguinbait | hey b-man |
| 00:49.12 | johnx | penguinbait, those last ones were supposed to be kept secret from users because it's a Nokia conspiracy though |
| 00:49.25 | GeneralAntilles | penguinbait, I see the assertion made that these things were never discussed on itT, yet when Tim provides several topic links to refute that claim his post goes ignored. |
| 00:49.37 | penguinbait | hey, you got to wag the dog |
| 00:49.39 | GeneralAntilles | penguinbait, the Newstyle testing thread was really quite long. |
| 00:50.10 | penguinbait | Nobody was saying that it was not discussed |
| 00:50.25 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, that seems to be exactly what I'm reading. |
| 00:50.40 | penguinbait | we are just saying it better if more people know |
| 00:51.06 | GeneralAntilles | Your proposal seems to be spamming email for every possible thing anybody might possibly want to provide input on. |
| 00:51.21 | Macer | i went to the museum of science and industry today |
| 00:51.28 | Macer | i haven't been there since i was 6 |
| 00:51.33 | Macer | it totally sucked :) |
| 00:51.48 | GeneralAntilles | There's a certain amount of due diligence required if you really want to input your opinion on every tiny thing. |
| 00:52.05 | Macer | they had soem sort of harry potter exibit .. and i had no idea what harry potter had to do with science or industry |
| 00:52.09 | penguinbait | GA, please go reread my first post |
| 00:52.16 | penguinbait | you seem to be confused |
| 00:52.36 | GeneralAntilles | The closing of the subforums was discussed rather extensively. There was plenty of opportunity to provide input, the thread was very visible on itT |
| 00:52.39 | penguinbait | so your saying you dont want community input GA? |
| 00:52.43 | GeneralAntilles | so where's your input? |
| 00:53.06 | penguinbait | I juat saw a thread started today, I gave my input |
| 00:53.09 | penguinbait | like it |
| 00:53.09 | GeneralAntilles | Only coming out now after a consensus has been reached and the work has been done. |
| 00:53.10 | penguinbait | ? |
| 00:53.35 | penguinbait | You gonna be ok? |
| 00:53.52 | penguinbait | I responded to the post I saw |
| 00:54.05 | penguinbait | I apparently didnt see the other one |
| 00:54.47 | GeneralAntilles | I'm not really sure what to say, if you're the type of person who likes to have an opinion about stuff like this, then you should probably be following the places where discussions take place. |
| 00:54.52 | penguinbait | I guess thats what happens, when you have a job, and four kids, you miss some shit |
| 00:55.21 | GeneralAntilles | Which is why the big stuff is aggregated to the council blog. |
| 00:55.24 | johnx | penguinbait, well, the onus isn't on other people to keep you informed. If you care, figure out how to keep up with this stuff. |
| 00:55.56 | penguinbait | Thanks for the input Johnx |
| 00:56.02 | Proteous | sometimes it's the shit that's right in the middle of the kitchen floor that you step on when you get up in the middle of the night to pee then think that getting a snack would be a good idea and then when you get into the kitchen and step in something soft and smelly the snack looses all appeal |
| 00:56.02 | penguinbait | I feel enlightened |
| 00:56.22 | GeneralAntilles | We can't play guessing games at what people are going to pitch fits over. |
| 00:56.40 | johnx | penguinbait, sure. any time. enlightenment on request, satisfaction guaranteed |
| 00:56.40 | Proteous | I pitch fits over small animals getting into my cat food supply, just so you don't have to guess |
| 00:56.42 | penguinbait | Look its a community, I am using my voice NOW to alter my community, and GA you are my inspiration |
| 00:56.57 | penguinbait | don't like, tough fing shit fellas |
| 00:57.05 | GeneralAntilles | Input is generally solicited on -community or the maemo.org forum |
| 00:57.18 | penguinbait | Thanks for the input GA |
| 00:57.20 | penguinbait | I feel enlightened |
| 00:57.33 | GeneralAntilles | a peek into either about once or twice a week will keep you from missing anything you deem important. |
| 00:57.45 | johnx | penguinbait, you're definitely providing a lot of input, but I doubt it's going to accomplish much without being a little more constructive and civil |
| 00:58.02 | penguinbait | youd be surprised what is being accomplished |
| 00:58.16 | penguinbait | maybe some might even be mad? oh well |
| 00:58.27 | GeneralAntilles | A lot of negativity is being thrown around to little use is what it looks like to me. |
| 00:58.45 | johnx | here's what I see accomplished: People are getting stirred up. Someone will write a css theme to invert the colors |
| 00:58.46 | penguinbait | thats because its mostly coming from you GA |
| 00:58.51 | penguinbait | its easy to hear |
| 00:59.01 | johnx | this could have been accomplished just as well without creating this huge shit storm |
| 00:59.01 | luke-jr | LOL |
| 00:59.03 | penguinbait | woooo |
| 00:59.10 | luke-jr | flings some doo at johnx |
| 00:59.11 | b-man | wonders if it is worth releasing Pdisk for maemo - i allrety have it built |
| 00:59.19 | johnx | ignores luke-jr again |
| 00:59.23 | luke-jr | pfft |
| 00:59.31 | penguinbait | whats pdisk |
| 00:59.38 | luke-jr | you're all being way too serious ;P |
| 01:00.00 | b-man | penguinbait: Mac patition utility |
| 01:00.03 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@189.70.41.40) |
| 01:00.09 | penguinbait | gui? |
| 01:00.19 | b-man | terminal |
| 01:00.36 | GeneralAntilles | penguinbait, I really don't have the energy to dig up a bunch of examples of posts from you that I believe are negative, but don't tell me you believe yourself to be squeaky clean here. |
| 01:00.38 | penguinbait | just command line or ncurses? |
| 01:00.47 | *** join/#maemo x29a_ (n=x29a@unaffiliated/x29a) |
| 01:00.54 | penguinbait | good GA, because I dont want to read your crap |
| 01:00.56 | penguinbait | save it |
| 01:01.08 | GeneralAntilles | penguinbait, yeah, see that's negative. |
| 01:01.16 | johnx | heh |
| 01:01.16 | penguinbait | I called texrat a dick |
| 01:01.20 | penguinbait | look that up |
| 01:01.21 | b-man | command line - kinda like sfdisk |
| 01:01.27 | penguinbait | your being one too btw |
| 01:01.34 | b-man | lol |
| 01:01.38 | GeneralAntilles | I don't deny it at least. |
| 01:01.51 | GeneralAntilles | You, apparently, believe yourself to be complete faultless. |
| 01:02.04 | GeneralAntilles | s/complete/completely/ |
| 01:02.21 | penguinbait | when did I say I was faultless |
| 01:02.27 | penguinbait | I never said I was Jesus |
| 01:03.13 | b-man | guys, guys, we don't need to fight :) |
| 01:03.36 | johnx | b-man++ :) |
| 01:04.03 | penguinbait | hey, lcuk said the channel was quiet |
| 01:04.32 | b-man | hehe |
| 01:04.45 | johnx | I don't think anyone's going to suddenly see eye-to-eye, here. Might as well just cool down... |
| 01:05.00 | penguinbait | I'm good |
| 01:06.00 | penguinbait | anyone else just dying to get some fresh hardware? |
| 01:06.14 | johnx | would be fun. means more work though ;) |
| 01:06.21 | luke-jr | flings some grilled chicken at b-man |
| 01:06.28 | penguinbait | I can't wait to get some more speed |
| 01:06.41 | luke-jr | b-man: let's turn this into a food fighjt |
| 01:06.42 | johnx | even a little more RAM would make me much happier. |
| 01:06.49 | penguinbait | me too |
| 01:06.52 | penguinbait | more ram |
| 01:06.57 | luke-jr | yeah |
| 01:07.07 | luke-jr | 128 MB creates problems trying to link qt-webkit :< |
| 01:07.21 | luke-jr | is N810 RAM solder-replacable? |
| 01:07.30 | penguinbait | not by me |
| 01:07.44 | luke-jr | :/ |
| 01:08.01 | b-man | eats dinner |
| 01:08.58 | b-man | luke-jr: :P |
| 01:13.47 | johnx | also looking forward to universal video playback |
| 01:14.14 | johnx | but I keep thinking about getting a bigger battery for my N800 to make it a real always-on mobile server |
| 01:19.00 | GAN800 | Do they offee bigger batteries? |
| 01:19.26 | GAN800 | Beagles would be nice for that if they had better powersaving. |
| 01:20.11 | *** join/#maemo mardi__1 (n=mardi_@213.1.53.21) |
| 01:20.57 | johnx | you can get an expanded BP-5L kit for a different Nokia phone, but you'd be without a back cover at that point |
| 01:21.20 | johnx | I'm thinking of a gumstix with a 9-cell laptop battery on the back and a card that can do wifi hostap |
| 01:21.20 | *** join/#maemo t2a (n=_gpg_@lns-bzn-40-82-251-176-209.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 01:21.22 | t2a | hello |
| 01:21.26 | johnx | hi t2a |
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| 01:21.42 | GAN800 | Overo? |
| 01:22.02 | johnx | nah, I was just gonna go verdex. whatever has a CF slot |
| 01:22.11 | GAN800 | Ah |
| 01:22.19 | GAN800 | x86 seems like a bad plan |
| 01:22.35 | johnx | eh? verdex is xscale/pxa27x |
| 01:22.48 | GAN800 | oh is it? nevermind then |
| 01:22.57 | johnx | same as the zaurus. good support, not too bad on power, can be clocked low and undervolted |
| 01:23.04 | GAN800 | I don't pay much attention to Gumstux's lineup. |
| 01:23.08 | GAN800 | s/ux/ix/ |
| 01:23.23 | johnx | I look at it and get grand plans every couple months :) |
| 01:23.30 | johnx | never do anything with it though. heh |
| 01:23.32 | GAN800 | $$? |
| 01:23.52 | johnx | it was in the past. soon it will be lack of time :) |
| 01:23.59 | t2a | How do you managed build error while crosscompiling dbus-glib please ? i would like to compile it for powrepc (sorry it out of topic) and i'm stuck with cannot execute binary file /home/gpg/build-tools/ltib/rpm/BUILD/dbus-glib-0.76/dbus/.libs/lt-dbus-binding-tool --prefix=some_object --mode=glib-server --output=example-service-glue.h ./example-service.xml |
| 01:24.07 | GAN800 | er, how much for the board? |
| 01:24.13 | t2a | i would like to share your experience regarding this issue |
| 01:24.28 | johnx | t2a, considered building in qemu-system-ppc? |
| 01:24.39 | t2a | johnx, interesting |
| 01:24.51 | t2a | joelmaher, haven't tried yet |
| 01:25.04 | t2a | joelmaher, oops |
| 01:25.09 | joelmaher | t2a: np |
| 01:25.26 | johnx | not sure if that's an easy option, but it seems that during the build it's trying to run execute some intermediate ppc binary |
| 01:25.31 | t2a | johnx, no |
| 01:25.42 | t2a | johnx, yes of course |
| 01:25.59 | t2a | it uses those binaries to generate some header files |
| 01:26.48 | t2a | johnx, i cant use qemu-system-ppc but trying to figure if it's possible to call lt-dbus-binding-tool with qemu-ppc instead |
| 01:26.49 | johnx | looks like you might need to alter the build system, build natively on ppc, or build "natively" in qemu-system-ppc |
| 01:27.04 | johnx | you'd need to staticly link it, but maybe so |
| 01:27.20 | johnx | another thought is to look at how the OE/angstrom guys have altered the build system so that they can compile it |
| 01:27.46 | t2a | johnx, thank you (i like this chan) |
| 01:28.09 | johnx | no problem :) |
| 01:28.59 | johnx | GAN800, the overo looks very cool though |
| 01:30.53 | GAN800 | johnx, not sure if its powersaving is better than the Beagle's or not. |
| 01:31.08 | johnx | powersaving is mostly a software thing IIUC |
| 01:31.33 | GAN800 | Hardware clocks sucking juice all the time. Not sure if the DVI transceiver can be turned off, etc. |
| 01:31.53 | GAN800 | To an extent |
| 01:31.58 | johnx | ah, well that is suboptimal :/ |
| 01:32.06 | GAN800 | Yeah |
| 01:32.27 | johnx | I'll wait for rev C to judge :) |
| 01:32.39 | GAN800 | It's out, no different. ;) |
| 01:32.40 | johnx | either way I have a use for at least one beagle board in my head already |
| 01:32.48 | johnx | it is? shipping? |
| 01:32.58 | GAN800 | For a while now |
| 01:33.03 | t2a | johnx, have seen some no-example patches on theit website :) thank you again, i've completely forgot oe project :) |
| 01:33.44 | johnx | sure. they're a really good source for patches, even if I don't use angstrom on anything right now :> |
| 01:33.51 | johnx | eep, gotta run though. just saw the time O_o |
| 01:33.54 | johnx | 'later all |
| 01:37.43 | Macer | it's about time house tapped cutty |
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| 01:55.45 | fireun | Macer: but does he stop hallucinating? |
| 01:57.27 | penguinbait | anyone tried the handwriting calculator? |
| 01:57.41 | b-man | yup |
| 01:57.54 | penguinbait | looks sweet I am grabbing it now |
| 01:57.57 | b-man | it's ok |
| 01:58.01 | b-man | :) |
| 01:58.05 | luke-jr | b-man: Yandere? |
| 01:58.14 | b-man | shure lol |
| 01:59.10 | *** join/#maemo Bobbe (i=FullT@200-219-90-65.ggs6102.3g.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 01:59.37 | Bobbe | Hey guys, just a general poll here. What soft do you use to share your media with your n8x0 over wifi? (I'm in Windows XP) |
| 02:03.23 | b-man | really HATES his P.O.S connection >:( |
| 02:03.31 | b-man | really HATES his P.O.S connection >:( |
| 02:03.35 | b-man | (sorry if i double posted) |
| 02:05.25 | Bobbe | what's P.O.S? |
| 02:05.55 | b-man | (piece of shit) lol |
| 02:06.32 | Bobbe | lmao |
| 02:06.35 | Bobbe | live and learn |
| 02:06.55 | Bobbe | I'm having trouble with my wifi too, but I seriously think it's my router |
| 02:08.01 | b-man | isn't using his router atm |
| 02:08.23 | Bobbe | what's wrong with your connection? |
| 02:08.37 | b-man | it's verry unstable |
| 02:08.55 | Bobbe | 3g here. u could be worse :| |
| 02:09.08 | b-man | heh |
| 02:09.23 | b-man | true |
| 02:10.04 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@213.1.53.21) |
| 02:10.05 | Bobbe | damn thing won't work on linux for love or money |
| 02:11.06 | Bobbe | jesus |
| 02:11.19 | Bobbe | this home media server canola recommends is one big P.O.S |
| 02:11.26 | Bobbe | (hah!) |
| 02:11.44 | b-man | lol |
| 02:12.58 | Bobbe | this guy in itt wrote this neat little script that converts and streams to his n800 on-the-fly |
| 02:13.07 | Bobbe | all I wanted was something that did that in windoze |
| 02:18.11 | *** join/#maemo ds3 (i=noinf@netblock-66-245-251-24.dslextreme.com) |
| 02:21.46 | tank-man | Bobbe, ive heard of tversity on winxp that a lot of ps3/xbox360 users use to stream |
| 02:21.50 | tank-man | upnp and all |
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| 02:23.20 | Bobbe | dling it now, will test it. Thanks tank-man |
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| 02:34.59 | Proteous | bobbe, I use TVersity |
| 02:35.07 | Proteous | to stream to my n810, it works great |
| 02:35.27 | Proteous | there is even a n8x and n7x encoding setting |
| 02:37.17 | Bobbe | u use the canola version? |
| 02:37.21 | Bobbe | I mean |
| 02:37.24 | Bobbe | do u access it via canola? |
| 02:42.09 | Bobbe | Proteous, when you select the N800 as the device, will it convert to the n8x0 screen size automatically? |
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| 02:50.47 | Proteous | sorry |
| 02:51.20 | Proteous | you can browse via UPNP from the tablets built in file browser |
| 02:51.36 | Proteous | which is what I use, but any software the supports UPNP servers will work |
| 02:51.51 | Proteous | as far as the screen size, I think I adjusted mine |
| 02:51.55 | Proteous | let me check |
| 02:51.59 | Proteous | hmm |
| 02:52.00 | Proteous | he's gone |
| 02:52.29 | CutMeOwnThroat | the cheek of it |
| 02:52.52 | CutMeOwnThroat | I normally rely on autocomplete to tell me |
| 02:52.57 | CutMeOwnThroat | and still people trick me |
| 03:10.37 | luke-jr | wow, my N810 got lucky |
| 03:10.41 | luke-jr | TTFF < 1 min |
| 03:10.54 | Proteous | TTFF? |
| 03:11.01 | luke-jr | Time To First Fix (GPS) |
| 03:11.05 | Proteous | heh |
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| 03:38.16 | LiraNuna | is the TTFF long because of software or hardware? |
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| 03:50.15 | luke-jr | LiraNuna: software |
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| 04:05.57 | LiraNuna | luke-jr, and gps is closed source, right? |
| 04:06.05 | luke-jr | LiraNuna: yes |
| 04:06.17 | LiraNuna | chipset known? |
| 04:06.30 | luke-jr | TI GPS5300 |
| 04:09.29 | LiraNuna | oh, did you guys heard about the Samsung Mondi? |
| 04:11.48 | LiraNuna | looks like a ripoff to me -> http://liranuna.com/junk/mondi_n810.jpg |
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| 04:17.14 | Bobbe | tank-man, thanks |
| 04:17.19 | Bobbe | exactly what I was looking for |
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| 06:18.38 | luke-jr | I thought Qt Mapper was a port of Maemo Mapper.. why does it have practically no functionality? :/ |
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| 06:22.45 | thux | morning |
| 06:24.02 | thux | would like to try flashrom in my lap but no coreboot.bins available :P |
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| 06:26.52 | ZakkmN800 | chatting from nokia n800 is hard |
| 06:27.14 | Stskeeps | yeah, sometimes |
| 06:27.34 | johnx | need a keyboard :) |
| 06:27.39 | luke-jr | heh |
| 06:28.04 | ZakkmN800 | i have one its attached to pc though i gota f to f adapter |
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| 06:34.43 | RST38h | moos |
| 06:35.01 | Stskeeps | moo Robot101 |
| 06:35.03 | Stskeeps | er. |
| 06:35.05 | Stskeeps | RST38h |
| 06:35.19 | RST38h | heya sts, all |
| 06:35.47 | johnx | morning RST38h |
| 06:36.28 | Stskeeps | glances at the rs232 connector pics |
| 06:36.55 | RST38h | male or female part? |
| 06:37.19 | RST38h | (sorry had to ask that =)) |
| 06:37.22 | Stskeeps | hehe |
| 06:37.43 | Stskeeps | well i asked them if there was a console connector on the board, and turns out there is :) sent me 4 high res pics of their solution for it, heh |
| 06:38.11 | RST38h | there usually is, sometimes two |
| 06:38.27 | johnx | two consoles at once? what would that be like? :D |
| 06:38.28 | Stskeeps | and the device even can boot from boot sector on a SD |
| 06:38.43 | RST38h | whose SoC are they using anyway? |
| 06:38.47 | Stskeeps | smdk6410 |
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| 06:39.00 | Stskeeps | is what it seems to be modelled on |
| 06:39.22 | Stskeeps | wonders if it's possible to tap into the ethernet or IDE. |
| 06:39.58 | RST38h | either would require external circuitry |
| 06:40.03 | Stskeeps | yeah, obviously |
| 06:40.18 | ZakkmN800 | woahh usb keyboardd :) |
| 06:40.37 | ZakkmN800 | Gotta love the f-f adapter. |
| 06:41.02 | ZakkmN800 | lots of wires though :( |
| 06:41.16 | RST38h | thats samsung... |
| 06:41.31 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 06:42.10 | ZakkmN800 | Stskeeps: you got home yet to try the smartq? |
| 06:42.22 | Stskeeps | ZakkmN800: long ago. runs mer already |
| 06:42.25 | ZakkmN800 | yo guys, i pressed some button and now i seem to have spellcheck popped up? |
| 06:42.33 | ZakkmN800 | what just happened/ what i press |
| 06:42.34 | Stskeeps | ZakkmN800: took me less than 24 hours to port it |
| 06:43.14 | ZakkmN800 | i dont know what i pressed :( i want it gone :( |
| 06:43.22 | ZakkmN800 | and thats cool, full support? |
| 06:43.55 | Stskeeps | i'm missing 3-4 things and i have a fully open source firmware |
| 06:44.19 | ZakkmN800 | Stskeeps, did you benchmark it yet ? |
| 06:44.30 | Stskeeps | not yet |
| 06:44.31 | ZakkmN800 | to see how well it compares to nokia tablet? |
| 06:44.51 | Stskeeps | nokia tablet has advantages in speaker and double-sd |
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| 06:45.03 | Stskeeps | and the fact nokia doesn't die when charger is taken out :) |
| 06:45.20 | ZakkmN800 | the smartq dies? |
| 06:45.27 | ZakkmN800 | mer thing or bad device? |
| 06:45.38 | Stskeeps | charger circuit fault on first batch |
| 06:45.45 | Stskeeps | but works fine on battery after that |
| 06:45.53 | ZakkmN800 | heh thats weird :) |
| 06:46.00 | Stskeeps | i have their firmware maker, rs232 console access, console, boot-from-SD, etc |
| 06:46.08 | ZakkmN800 | also i find it weird it says usb device not supported, yet keyboard works fine ;p |
| 06:46.24 | ZakkmN800 | it looks nicer than the tablets |
| 06:46.35 | ZakkmN800 | well n810 looks better, but cant afford that :) |
| 06:47.12 | ZakkmN800 | would make a nice alternate i think, having alot of mer devices |
| 06:47.44 | Stskeeps | also, n8x0 had dpad. |
| 06:47.48 | Stskeeps | and esc buttn etc. |
| 06:47.50 | Stskeeps | i miss that. |
| 06:47.58 | ZakkmN800 | what esc button? |
| 06:48.04 | Stskeeps | the back button? |
| 06:48.06 | ZakkmN800 | oh |
| 06:48.14 | ZakkmN800 | i think esc as like ¨ëxit¨ |
| 06:48.21 | ZakkmN800 | ör close |
| 06:49.00 | ZakkmN800 | the smartq is at a nice price too |
| 06:50.09 | Stskeeps | i wouldn't mind a couple of them around my house really |
| 06:50.19 | Stskeeps | oh, it does suspend to ram too |
| 06:51.04 | ZakkmN800 | the nokia should do that too i think |
| 06:51.09 | ZakkmN800 | shouldnt it? |
| 06:51.25 | ZakkmN800 | why doesnt it? |
| 06:51.41 | Stskeeps | it does but this one it seems to work nicley |
| 06:52.17 | Stskeeps | anyway, i gotta head to class soon |
| 06:52.23 | ZakkmN800 | in school? |
| 06:52.43 | Stskeeps | finishing my masters degree |
| 06:52.49 | ZakkmN800 | oh wow |
| 06:52.55 | ZakkmN800 | that must take long. |
| 06:53.15 | Stskeeps | 6 years (i am one year behind) |
| 06:53.36 | ZakkmN800 | wow |
| 06:53.48 | ZakkmN800 | and to think my post secondary education will only be 2-3 years :) |
| 06:53.52 | Stskeeps | hehe |
| 06:53.55 | ZakkmN800 | most likely less |
| 06:53.58 | Stskeeps | the 6 years go fast. |
| 06:54.01 | ZakkmN800 | (in last grade of highschool) |
| 06:54.59 | ZakkmN800 | 1/3 of my life :) |
| 06:56.08 | Stskeeps | heh, i'm turning 25 and then im done with university and school, hopefully forever |
| 06:56.24 | Stskeeps | was thinking of pursuing a phd but now i'm just dead tired of school. |
| 06:57.02 | ZakkmN800 | i dont understand how people going for doctor and stuff do it |
| 06:57.27 | ZakkmN800 | a good friend is mine is in uni now to become a surgeon, and im just thinking way too much school |
| 06:58.51 | ZakkmN800 | this is so cool, n800 + xchat + usb keyboard |
| 06:59.04 | ZakkmN800 | maybe i should get a bluetooth keyboard or soemthing, use in school |
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| 07:46.33 | X-Fade | Morning |
| 07:47.30 | StsN801 | morn X-Fade |
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| 07:52.21 | X-Fade | is thinking of distilling this QA discussion in a wiki page. |
| 07:52.38 | X-Fade | And then come up with a concrete plan of actually implementing the thing. |
| 07:53.37 | timeless_mbp | QA? |
| 07:53.41 | timeless_mbp | what's that? |
| 07:53.55 | X-Fade | timeless_mbp: Exactly ;) |
| 07:53.55 | *** join/#maemo bilboed (n=bilboed@89.129.131.61) |
| 07:54.27 | timeless_mbp | is it where people say "i don't think this is my bug, lemme give it to the next guy", the next guy says "oh, it's not my bug, invalid", the reporter says "but i didn't say it was your bug reopen", first guy "what priority should this have?", "please set a priority" |
| 07:54.54 | timeless_mbp | engineer who ignored qa "oh, i already fixed something like this (by doing the opposite of what was asked here, already fixed" |
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| 07:55.04 | timeless_mbp | qa "reporter, please verify this urgently" |
| 07:55.13 | X-Fade | timeless_mbp: Well, I guess we will start with: Works vs Doesn't work ;) |
| 07:55.31 | timeless_mbp | with or without specs specifying what's expected? :) |
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| 07:56.20 | timeless_mbp | btw, in case it wasn't obvious, while what i described above happens, it isn't QA, it's people who have been given a funny hat with "Quirky Actor" written on it (the lowercase letters are so small that no one can read them) |
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| 08:07.29 | RST38h | X-Fade: What discussion? |
| 08:07.44 | RST38h | X-Fade: Are there changes to bug processing coming? |
| 08:08.04 | X-Fade | RST38h: -developers |
| 08:08.07 | RST38h | ah |
| 08:08.47 | RST38h | Shit, the maemo community page is a total mess :( |
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| 08:09.39 | RST38h | Funny how none of the committee members thought of placing stuff that is actually being USED on top |
| 08:11.01 | RST38h | X-Fade: "QA from extras-devel to extras-testing" ? |
| 08:11.09 | X-Fade | RST38h: Yes. |
| 08:12.13 | johnx | thought the quality on extras was actually pretty good |
| 08:12.31 | RST38h | X-Fade: I agree with Matan that the whole discussion is ominous |
| 08:12.40 | X-Fade | johnx: Well yes and no. |
| 08:12.45 | RST38h | Current Extras are pretty good as they are |
| 08:13.04 | X-Fade | There are still some packages that are presenting themselves as user packages, but actually are not. |
| 08:13.29 | RST38h | X-Fade: Then deal with them on one-to-one basis |
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| 08:13.46 | X-Fade | Mostly issues that could be spotted by some automated process and fixed by the developer when he/she even knew about it. |
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| 08:14.31 | RST38h | Automatic scan + email + check for changes + removal if changes are not applied in 1 month time |
| 08:14.35 | X-Fade | And people are now able to upload system libs for instance, which breaks everything. |
| 08:14.58 | RST38h | Also easy to check, if you have a list of base packages from Nokia |
| 08:15.15 | X-Fade | So it is not to make it hard to upload, just some sanity checks really. |
| 08:15.32 | RST38h | All this can be made invisible to the uploaders, no need for formal QA procedures |
| 08:15.51 | X-Fade | Uploading an application which doesn't install doesn't make much sense. |
| 08:16.26 | X-Fade | And then there is testing the actual application. |
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| 08:18.10 | johnx | jeez, it's almost like you're trying to hit the reliability of a mobile phone OS or something :P |
| 08:19.02 | X-Fade | johnx: Well, isn't that the eventual goal anyway? Now we are targetting tech people, but shouldn't we be targetting your mother in step 5? |
| 08:19.34 | johnx | hey, stay away from my mom. you're not even my real dad :P |
| 08:19.52 | X-Fade | Heh ;) |
| 08:20.19 | X-Fade | Just so say, we need to start somewhere to make it easy for the real end-users. |
| 08:21.01 | johnx | I'm all for it, just make real sure you don't chase away the power users and devs :) |
| 08:21.17 | X-Fade | And if someone managed to promote a sdl lib which breaks all games, this kind of kills the experience for most people. |
| 08:21.48 | X-Fade | johnx: Powerusers should just enable extras-devel and be living on the edge always? |
| 08:22.01 | RST38h | X-Fade: There are basically two ways to do it |
| 08:22.35 | RST38h | X-Fade: You can either let people upload more or less freely, run some automatic checks, and leave the rest to the Tentacled One |
| 08:23.28 | RST38h | X-Fade: Or you can assume Tentacled One's duties yourself (or delegate to some QA cabal) in which case the Extras will stay sparkling clean but people will start creating their own repos again |
| 08:23.54 | X-Fade | RST38h: Well there are multiple levels in this. |
| 08:24.00 | johnx | X-Fade, I think you might have something with a three tiered system actually. devel -> testing -> extras. extras-devel is scary/b0rken enough that even power users stay away |
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| 08:24.13 | RST38h | X-Fade: So it seems, but there is a threshold anyway |
| 08:24.16 | timeless_mbp | hey, does vpnc still work in mer? |
| 08:24.25 | X-Fade | Developers would like their application to be available for everybody, and extras will be enabled by default. |
| 08:24.40 | RST38h | X-Fade: And whatever level you take, it will fall either above or below the threshold |
| 08:25.05 | X-Fade | If a developer doesn't care, he can provide the package any way he likes. He will not get the same amount of downloads. |
| 08:25.27 | RST38h | X-Fade: Well, my guess is that with the open source stuff where developers are not making money, most of them will not care. |
| 08:25.41 | johnx | or certainly care a lot less |
| 08:25.44 | X-Fade | RST38h: You have to think of what the goal is of a developer. |
| 08:25.45 | RST38h | X-Fade: they simply won't got with the Extras distribution |
| 08:25.55 | X-Fade | If you develop software, you want people to use it? |
| 08:26.01 | RST38h | X-Fade: I *am* a developer, I know what my goal is. |
| 08:26.04 | X-Fade | Or do you only develop for yourself? |
| 08:26.18 | X-Fade | Those are 2 completly different goals. |
| 08:26.22 | glass | X-Fade: some, make that many, oss devs don't really care about if anyone uses it or not |
| 08:26.23 | RST38h | X-Fade: And, as a developer, I can assure you that most free software developers do it for themselves |
| 08:26.28 | johnx | X-Fade, there are shades of grey in between |
| 08:26.45 | glass | X-Fade: and that gets us to what sucks about certain open projects |
| 08:26.53 | RST38h | X-Fade: And of course they all love other people using it, but not to the point of eating red tape |
| 08:26.57 | johnx | "I'd like to share, but if you make this too hard, then I'll post it on a forum and get on to the next cool hack." |
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| 08:27.10 | X-Fade | johnx: Well, if everybody can download it easily, it certainly is an advantage for the developer? |
| 08:27.24 | RST38h | X-Fade: Only if they pay money :) |
| 08:27.38 | RST38h | X-Fade: Besides, they can download it just as easily from his own repo |
| 08:27.41 | X-Fade | A developer who doesn't care about people using it, will probably not make great software anyway? |
| 08:27.47 | glass | some devs like that people use their soft even if it doesn't make money. just having users is motivating |
| 08:27.50 | RST38h | X-Fade: not true |
| 08:27.59 | RST38h | X-Fade: there are examples against that |
| 08:28.20 | X-Fade | RST38h: Why would you even publish your software if you don't care about people using it? |
| 08:28.23 | johnx | X-Fade, there's a certain amount of effort devs are willing to go through, and when the threshold is too high, they give up |
| 08:28.24 | glass | RST38h: name a few |
| 08:28.31 | RST38h | X-Fade: Because I have written it already |
| 08:28.34 | RST38h | glass: FAR |
| 08:28.44 | RST38h | X-Fade: Why not publish it? |
| 08:28.47 | glass | far? |
| 08:28.51 | X-Fade | RST38h: Yeah, but why do you want people to use it? |
| 08:28.55 | RST38h | glass: Search for far manager |
| 08:29.10 | RST38h | X-Fade: I do not *want* people to use it, I *let* people use it |
| 08:29.19 | RST38h | X-Fade: See the difference? |
| 08:29.28 | glass | RST38h: far managers site is built so that it seems they want people to use it(care about it) |
| 08:29.42 | RST38h | glass: Look at the date the last update came out |
| 08:29.49 | johnx | just look at all the stuff that's already on ITT but not extras |
| 08:29.56 | X-Fade | Everytime you publish something, you do an active thing. |
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| 08:30.06 | RST38h | X-Fade: Again not true |
| 08:30.10 | johnx | piles of qwerty12's stuff was there (he did put it in extras once that got easier). Tear is ITT only for now |
| 08:30.15 | glass | RST38h: ach. dunno. the app still looks like he cared that people would use it |
| 08:30.23 | RST38h | X-Fade: You mistake the act of putting somethign online with attention whoring |
| 08:30.24 | X-Fade | johnx: Those are code drops labeled, worksforme but beware ;) |
| 08:30.33 | RST38h | glass: It is an excellent app |
| 08:30.41 | RST38h | glass: Not being very much cared for though |
| 08:30.48 | johnx | X-Fade, and they're more stable than some other things in extras ;) |
| 08:31.18 | X-Fade | johnx: Well then people can install it from there. |
| 08:31.27 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@pluto.systemone.at) |
| 08:31.35 | RST38h | X-Fade: They can, destroying the idea of a single repo |
| 08:31.35 | X-Fade | But they will go to some warnings before installing in Fremantle. |
| 08:31.52 | RST38h | has no problem with clicking on a warning |
| 08:31.52 | johnx | exactly. because those devs 1) wanted people to use their software, but 2) didn't want to put in the effort to push to extras or extras-devel |
| 08:31.57 | X-Fade | RST38h: Well if you care about that, then you should upload to that single repo. |
| 08:32.12 | RST38h | X-Fade: Care about what? A single repo? I do not |
| 08:32.15 | X-Fade | Again, this is not about makeing it harder to upload. Just to get a better quality end result. |
| 08:32.18 | *** join/#maemo bilboed-pi (n=bilboed@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 08:32.23 | RST38h | X-Fade: It is a nice-to-have, not a must-have |
| 08:32.58 | johnx | X-Fade, ok, I get that. It was just a friendly suggestion from me to be careful down this road not to put in any more roadblocks than absolutely necessary |
| 08:33.05 | X-Fade | johnx: Those are the same developers that drop of the net regularly. |
| 08:33.11 | RST38h | X-Fade: Anyways, just to make my opinion known to the higher ups: |
| 08:33.26 | RST38h | X-Fade: 1) Implement some common sense automated checks and remove stuff that does not pass them |
| 08:33.44 | X-Fade | RST38h: To me is as high as you get and I'm at the same level as you are ;) |
| 08:33.53 | RST38h | X-Fade: 2) If a trusted 3rd party repo is absolutely needed, create a new one or promote packages into existing Nokia repo for 3rd party software |
| 08:34.07 | *** join/#maemo woglinde (n=heinold@omsk.mi.fu-berlin.de) |
| 08:34.08 | X-Fade | RST38h: This is maemo.org, not Nokia. |
| 08:34.30 | X-Fade | We're not talking about Ovi store here. |
| 08:34.35 | RST38h | X-Fade: Well, you can always either talk to Nokia about it or create a new repo |
| 08:34.50 | woglinde | hi |
| 08:34.53 | RST38h | X-Fade: Oh, I was talking about that weird 3rd party software repo that Nokia already has enabled |
| 08:34.57 | X-Fade | RST38h: This has nothing to do with nokia. It is what we want. |
| 08:34.59 | RST38h | X-Fade: The one with skype etc |
| 08:35.15 | X-Fade | RST38h: Those are Nokia commercial partners. Nothing to do with maemo.org |
| 08:35.40 | RST38h | X-Fade: But nothing prevents Nokia from creating a free subbranch of that repo and adding checked packages there |
| 08:35.58 | RST38h | X-Fade: It will be both technically and logically correct |
| 08:36.04 | X-Fade | We, the community, get one repository on every device which is enabled by default. |
| 08:36.08 | X-Fade | This is Extras. |
| 08:36.30 | woglinde | *g* |
| 08:36.40 | X-Fade | Every other repository we add can be for hard-core users, no problem. |
| 08:37.08 | *** join/#maemo mardi__1 (n=mardi_@213.1.51.163) |
| 08:37.28 | RST38h | X-Fade: Well, then leave only checked packages in Extras and create a new repo for all the advanced users that is disabled by default |
| 08:37.41 | RST38h | X-Fade: Just *not* call it Extras-devel which is a terrible mess |
| 08:37.48 | johnx | RST38h, extras-testing? |
| 08:37.54 | RST38h | Extras-Community |
| 08:37.57 | RST38h | or something like that |
| 08:38.00 | X-Fade | RST38h: This is what extras-testing is proposed for? |
| 08:38.27 | RST38h | X-Fade: You have to expect that most packages will be stored in that repo permanently, so no "testing" in the name |
| 08:38.45 | RST38h | X-Fade: I.e. it will completely replace the current Extras |
| 08:39.09 | X-Fade | RST38h: It won't as 99% of our downloads will still be from Extras ;) |
| 08:39.35 | RST38h | X-Fade: It will, you will see |
| 08:39.48 | RST38h | X-Fade: See discussion above |
| 08:40.18 | X-Fade | RST38h: Community members are such a small drop in the total users count. |
| 08:40.29 | woglinde | *g* |
| 08:41.06 | RST38h | X-Fade: It does not matter really. What matters is that once you fence off Extras, developers will stop trying to get there |
| 08:41.10 | X-Fade | Most people will just download through the Application Manager, maemo.nokia.com or downloads catalog. |
| 08:41.26 | RST38h | So, in order to keep developers in a single repo, you will need a permanent alternative to Extras |
| 08:42.06 | RST38h | Whether this alternative will be created by maemo.org or some rogue developer is up to you :) |
| 08:42.20 | X-Fade | RST38h: Most developers are not like you ;) |
| 08:42.28 | RST38h | X-Fade: Oh, really? :) |
| 08:42.43 | RST38h | X-Fade: Check out penguinbait's rants on ITT :) |
| 08:42.57 | X-Fade | Anyway, Fremantle will have signed downloads presented differently. |
| 08:43.04 | johnx | place your bets now gentlemen :) |
| 08:43.08 | RST38h | is actually quite sane as far as averages go =) |
| 08:43.56 | *** join/#maemo andrei1089 (n=andrei@79.116.252.147) |
| 08:44.10 | RST38h | Actually, creating a new repo called Stars and enabling it by default in Fremantle may satisfy everybody |
| 08:44.50 | johnx | actually, in my mind, that would make a lot more sense |
| 08:44.58 | RST38h | Yep |
| 08:45.18 | RST38h | It will both look nice to the end users and create a sense of elitism for those who DO get into it |
| 08:45.21 | johnx | for people who want to push the polish of their app, they have something to shoot for |
| 08:45.29 | RST38h | Exactly |
| 08:45.39 | X-Fade | Well, I think that Extr can easily serve that role. Without to many hassle for developers. |
| 08:45.40 | johnx | for people who just want to share what they have and move on, Extras |
| 08:46.18 | RST38h | X-Fade: You won't be able to do what you want to accomplish without hassle |
| 08:46.49 | RST38h | X-Fade: And even if you have got a plan, some more managerial-minded characters will insist on lots of red tape |
| 08:47.07 | X-Fade | RST38h: We're talking about things like automatic time delayed promotion. |
| 08:47.19 | X-Fade | And only removing the package when there are serious problems. |
| 08:47.43 | RST38h | X-Fade: Ah, automatic would be ok, but the mailing list was talking abuot a QA team, 10 approvals, with even a single non-approval disabling promotion |
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| 08:48.05 | X-Fade | RST38h: 10 approvals or time delayed if nobody tested it. |
| 08:48.21 | X-Fade | So it will only speed promotion up if people test it. |
| 08:48.21 | RST38h | X-Fade: time delayed by what amount? |
| 08:48.29 | X-Fade | RST38h: to be determined |
| 08:48.40 | RST38h | X-Fade: But this is the important part |
| 08:48.45 | johnx | RST38h, 1 miiiiillion years |
| 08:49.16 | X-Fade | RST38h: Say a 2 week timeout. And when x amount of people thumb up, direct. |
| 08:49.25 | RST38h | X-Fade: It is a difference between "ok, lemme upload it and wait" and "lemme just publish it on ITT while it is waiting for approval" |
| 08:49.31 | timeless_mbp | what happens if 1 person thumbs down? :) |
| 08:49.33 | X-Fade | And we can even build up a certain trust level. |
| 08:49.48 | X-Fade | timeless_mbp: We can check which person it is ;) |
| 08:49.50 | *** join/#maemo AD-N770 (n=jep@o.bcn.fluendo.net) |
| 08:50.13 | X-Fade | And if one person flags down, the debmaster needs to check it himself. |
| 08:50.22 | X-Fade | Everything else will just go through? |
| 08:50.26 | RST38h | X-Fade: Does not sound like a good idea, really. Sounds like an attempt to break something not broken |
| 08:50.55 | X-Fade | RST38h: It is just to stabilize it a bit. |
| 08:51.03 | RST38h | X-Fade: So I would suggest a new repo called Stars and enabled by default, with promotion process up to public consideration |
| 08:51.16 | X-Fade | If someone promotes a broken package now, Extras is instantly broken. |
| 08:51.30 | RST38h | Well, automatically check package dependencies |
| 08:51.49 | X-Fade | RST38h: Sure, but what about a broken post-install? |
| 08:51.53 | RST38h | And contents too, so that it does not overwrite other packages |
| 08:52.07 | X-Fade | Yeah, so there are multiple things to test. |
| 08:52.13 | RST38h | X-Fade: well, I can suggets a way to check THAT too, but it is messy |
| 08:52.27 | RST38h | X-Fade: So in this case it may be better to just let it be |
| 08:52.41 | X-Fade | And then there is: drains battery in 4 hours because it installs a deamon. |
| 08:53.05 | RST38h | And then there is: shows nude women every 15 minutes |
| 08:53.06 | X-Fade | Things like that can be spotted by manual installs. |
| 08:53.11 | X-Fade | RST38h: ;) |
| 08:53.19 | RST38h | And then there is: contains the lyrics of Jignle Bells (copyrighted) |
| 08:53.44 | RST38h | And then there is: calls maemo community council member an idiot, in high-pitched gay voice |
| 08:53.51 | johnx | RST38h, which app is that, with the nude women? I need to test that ... to protect the users... |
| 08:53.58 | RST38h | Are you gonna filter THEm ALL? :) |
| 08:54.25 | RST38h | johnx: ! Here is the first business model for NIT software =) |
| 08:54.52 | johnx | pygtkPicturesOfGirls? |
| 08:55.02 | RST38h | Was that AStorm who insisted that selfless people can't be evil? :) |
| 08:55.14 | RST38h | johnx: hell, I was just going to suggest python for that =) |
| 08:55.17 | suihkulokki | Isn't microb the app with all the nude women? |
| 08:55.49 | johnx | please feed a crumpled up 5 dollar bill into the sd card slot to continue |
| 08:58.18 | RST38h | X-Fade: BTW, if you want to make sure nobody pushes a virus through postinst, let me know |
| 08:58.42 | johnx | RST38h, you've developed a turing oracle? |
| 08:58.43 | RST38h | X-Fade: there is an automatic way to check for that although you may not like the complexity of it |
| 08:58.54 | RST38h | johnx: ah it is way simpler |
| 08:59.35 | X-Fade | Well we have no kill switch to kill the app on a user's device. |
| 08:59.48 | X-Fade | The only thing we can do is remove it from the repo. |
| 08:59.48 | RST38h | you do have it |
| 09:00.05 | X-Fade | Or offer an updated version ;) |
| 09:00.06 | RST38h | push a system update that diables the app |
| 09:00.11 | RST38h | or that |
| 09:00.18 | *** join/#maemo Dar (n=Dar_K@nat/sun/x-0a4233140abcad21) |
| 09:00.29 | X-Fade | But that still requires the user to do something. |
| 09:00.39 | *** join/#maemo Shadow__X (n=Good@128.235.129.67) |
| 09:00.54 | johnx | I hope it doesn't reach the point where we're putting out fires like that already... :/ |
| 09:04.07 | RST38h | yea, requires him to run system update |
| 09:04.08 | RST38h | or install it from app manager |
| 09:04.10 | timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: yep |
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| 09:04.51 | timeless_mbp | johnx: if you want to test, try http://timeless.justdave.net/stress/stress.html |
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| 09:05.29 | timeless_mbp | X-Fade: you have to offer a package 'maemo-blacklist' |
| 09:05.44 | timeless_mbp | which is updated periodically and conflicts with other packages which are blacklisted |
| 09:05.47 | johnx | to see how the browser deals with scrolling huge images? |
| 09:06.11 | timeless_mbp | johnx: well... to see how the browser deals w/ a lot of images |
| 09:06.11 | johnx | timeless_mbp, not sure how apt would behave in that situation |
| 09:06.18 | timeless_mbp | (i.e. running out of memory) |
| 09:06.25 | X-Fade | timeless_mbp: Indeed, that can be one solution. |
| 09:06.50 | johnx | you could probably do some really "clever" apt pinning to make the conflicting app always chosen |
| 09:07.25 | timeless_mbp | you need to make sure it works of course |
| 09:08.46 | johnx | wow, that's a lot of images |
| 09:09.13 | johnx | keeping firefox plenty busy on my desktop |
| 09:10.45 | suihkulokki | we already trust that apt doesn't remove osso-software-version I guess the maemo-blacklist would be protected the same way |
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| 09:11.11 | X-Fade | suihkulokki: Well is can remove o-s-v easily ;) |
| 09:11.16 | johnx | you mean as soon as someone uses apt-get instead of h-a-m it's history? |
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| 09:12.06 | suihkulokki | ah, so o-s-v is just to protect endusers, not geeks :) |
| 09:12.27 | X-Fade | suihkulokki: yep. there is an o-s-v-unlocked for geeks too. |
| 09:13.25 | johnx | timeless_mbp, will check how tear handles that in a couple minutes |
| 09:13.47 | timeless_mbp | johnx: grading system 1. Fail if device reboots |
| 09:14.04 | timeless_mbp | i've killed a number of boxes running various os's w/ that page |
| 09:14.25 | timeless_mbp | a bunch of phones, an oqo, a fbsd box (years ago) |
| 09:14.57 | RST38h | johnx: I do not consider this a catastrophe really |
| 09:15.32 | RST38h | johnx: As long as there is a way to quickly remedy any problems, should be fine |
| 09:16.05 | johnx | yeah, not a big deal, just had to comment about trusting apt not to remove o-s-v |
| 09:16.53 | RST38h | suihkulokki: Funny, I have just removed osso-software-version with apt =) |
| 09:17.41 | X-Fade | RST38h: Only matters if you want software updates ;) |
| 09:17.46 | RST38h | johnx: It can probably be protected by some means, for example it can create some files in postinst that apt won't know about |
| 09:17.49 | X-Fade | *firmare |
| 09:18.00 | X-Fade | Yeah, great typing today... ;) |
| 09:18.11 | RST38h | X-Fade: see above =) |
| 09:18.12 | johnx | RST38h, there's easier ways, but it's mildly intrusive (read: annoying) to power users |
| 09:18.30 | RST38h | johnx: yea, but o=s=v I can live with, personally |
| 09:18.50 | RST38h | johnx: As long as there is an unofficial way to get around it in dire need of course :) |
| 09:19.03 | johnx | RST38h, you just tell apt: always resolve deps in such a way that this package stays installed. It's called pinning |
| 09:19.40 | RST38h | johnx: But THIS can be overridden with apt options, not? |
| 09:19.56 | johnx | only if you're *very explicit* about what you want to do, which I belive is the goal |
| 09:20.08 | johnx | right now it's set up so that apt will remove o-s-v at the drop of a hat |
| 09:21.03 | johnx | to change the pinning you edit the config file -or- directly specify some really long-ass option on the apt command line |
| 09:21.31 | RST38h | Should work then |
| 09:21.41 | johnx | we were getting people on itt who knew how to use apt-get but were confused about why it wanted to remove o-s-v |
| 09:21.53 | johnx | it would actually be nice if that was just a *little bit* harder :) |
| 09:22.03 | RST38h | If people continue freaking it out, just create files in postinst |
| 09:22.27 | RST38h | Then there truly won't be a way to kill it with apt |
| 09:22.38 | johnx | RST38h, nah, that's intrusive beyond reason. Then you're just fighting users, not guiding them |
| 09:22.52 | RST38h | johnx: it is just one spot, with good reasons for it |
| 09:23.05 | *** join/#maemo ceyusa (n=ceyusa@83.165.40.51) |
| 09:23.05 | RST38h | For this single spot, I have no problems |
| 09:23.35 | johnx | right but "apt-get --I-really-want-to-break-my-shit install b0rken-package" should be enough I think |
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| 09:24.15 | johnx | no need to have that succeed then have some postinst go and remove b0rken-package after it's already messed things up |
| 09:25.34 | johnx | plus it's nice to not bastardize apt more than is strictly necessary |
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| 09:26.22 | RST38h | Maybe... |
| 09:26.40 | RST38h | of course nothing like this is gonna happen, we will just get Extras all redtaped =( |
| 09:27.00 | johnx | eh, like rats from a sinking ship, jump into Mer. :D |
| 09:27.04 | *** join/#maemo zap_ (n=zap@94.25.212.18) |
| 09:27.28 | johnx | this is why they don't let me do marketing... |
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| 09:29.02 | RST38h | Mer isn't an exit strategy |
| 09:29.43 | StsN801 | off the plank, yarr! |
| 09:29.51 | dl9pf | StsN801: moin |
| 09:30.16 | johnx | RST38h, correct, but I couldn't resist the pun :> |
| 09:46.17 | RST38h | is trying to fix a test case =( |
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| 10:01.25 | StsN801 | http://www.pocketables.net/2009/05/smartq-7-internet-tablet-mid-revealed.html |
| 10:02.16 | X-Fade | StsN801: Photoshop release? |
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| 10:06.46 | StsN801 | X-Fade, fullscreen webbrowser prolly |
| 10:07.05 | X-Fade | StsN801: No, I meant that the whole device is rendered. |
| 10:07.24 | StsN801 | their q7 does have a 7" lcd though |
| 10:07.49 | StsN801 | so there might be smth to their rendering |
| 10:08.19 | StsN801 | the q5 is surprisingly smooth and well designed |
| 10:08.41 | StsN801 | as is the box |
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| 10:20.44 | roope | 4500mAh is a big-ass battery. |
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| 10:20.57 | StsN801 | yeah |
| 10:21.33 | StsN801 | im not sure its for more than couch surfing / laptop like use |
| 10:21.56 | StsN801 | the q5 has 2000mah |
| 10:22.02 | roope | 7 inch for me is a dead size. If I want to couch surf, I get my 15" laptop. |
| 10:22.25 | roope | Then again, 7 inch is awkward size to carry. It should be either bigger or then smaller. |
| 10:22.30 | Shadow__X | its hard to find a good common ground |
| 10:22.41 | Shadow__X | because as things get bigger just get a real laptop |
| 10:22.46 | StsN801 | my laptop gets too hot for couch surfing |
| 10:23.03 | Shadow__X | personally i cant use a 7-10 inch laptop |
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| 10:23.20 | Shadow__X | i plan to get a macbook to replace everyday uses |
| 10:23.21 | StsN801 | a fully hackable 7" tablet is interesting though |
| 10:23.32 | Shadow__X | and possible get a new tablet |
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| 10:47.39 | radic | where are the words for the auto completation stored? |
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| 11:09.06 | lcuk | roope, 7" is very nice size for a photo frame for your grandparents though |
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| 11:19.41 | RST38h | Stskeeps <--- stealthily trying to make me buy a SmartQ with all this stuff =) |
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| 11:20.32 | Stskeeps | RST38h: hehe |
| 11:21.23 | lcuk | Stskeeps, its lacking in a few essential features tho |
| 11:21.36 | lcuk | really likes the basic idea :) |
| 11:21.59 | Stskeeps | lcuk: like? |
| 11:23.12 | lcuk | camera, keyboard |
| 11:23.13 | Stskeeps | ah |
| 11:23.14 | Stskeeps | yeah |
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| 11:27.16 | Robot101 | Stskeeps: moo to you too :P |
| 11:27.20 | Stskeeps | Robot101: sorry :) |
| 11:27.33 | Stskeeps | lack of coffee and tab completion isn't good |
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| 11:28.56 | Robot101 | :) |
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| 11:59.07 | *** join/#maemo xnt (n=xnt@pool-96-232-136-40.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 11:59.41 | xnt | FAIL: http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/06/smartq-7-is-an-internet-tablet-with-dedicated-fn/ |
| 12:00.40 | Stskeeps | uh. :P |
| 12:00.45 | xnt | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:01.12 | xnt | would take a 770 over this any day |
| 12:01.24 | lcuk | wheres the Fn in that |
| 12:01.34 | Stskeeps | xnt: i actually have a smartq 5 MID. |
| 12:01.40 | Stskeeps | it's so hackable. |
| 12:01.45 | lcuk | showoff! |
| 12:02.08 | xnt | can it run, ume? |
| 12:02.32 | Stskeeps | xnt: it runs ubuntu by standard, runs mer, etc |
| 12:02.46 | Stskeeps | the screen on the Q7 is the same as on some Asus EEE |
| 12:02.49 | xnt | researches... |
| 12:03.00 | Stskeeps | search SmartQ on iTT |
| 12:03.09 | *** join/#maemo _BuBU (n=_BuBU@114.163.67-86.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 12:03.56 | Stskeeps | but yeah, Fn key is a bit mysterious.. |
| 12:04.01 | xnt | 0.o |
| 12:04.40 | Stskeeps | trust me, you'd take this one over a 770 ;) |
| 12:04.45 | Stskeeps | (the q7) |
| 12:04.51 | Stskeeps | except if you love your dpad :P |
| 12:04.59 | xnt | ok :) |
| 12:05.05 | xnt | is it x86? |
| 12:05.08 | Stskeeps | no, arm |
| 12:05.14 | Stskeeps | (the q5 i mean) |
| 12:05.21 | xnt | so h ave you gotten mer on it? |
| 12:05.24 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 12:05.28 | xnt | :) |
| 12:05.28 | Stskeeps | the q7 is similar hw |
| 12:06.09 | xnt | Run Fremantle on it :P, it has a gpu |
| 12:06.21 | Stskeeps | yes, but no 3d drivers |
| 12:06.28 | xnt | :( |
| 12:06.29 | Stskeeps | get me a person with a samsung nda, heh |
| 12:06.43 | xnt | lol |
| 12:07.11 | xnt | http://fuckingnda.com/ |
| 12:07.20 | xnt | oh wait that doesn't work anymore :P |
| 12:07.21 | *** join/#maemo robink (n=robink@fatcat.creosotehill.org) |
| 12:08.23 | xnt | how much is it? |
| 12:08.39 | xnt | reads http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/18/smartq-5-mid-scores-itself-ubuntu-a-ridiculously-low-price-tag/ |
| 12:08.52 | Stskeeps | 132$ |
| 12:08.58 | xnt | :) |
| 12:09.04 | xnt | might buy |
| 12:09.11 | Stskeeps | .. yeah, if you can get it in the US |
| 12:09.16 | Stskeeps | i got mine donated by the company |
| 12:09.16 | xnt | how big is it? |
| 12:09.30 | Stskeeps | tinier and lighter than a n800 |
| 12:09.32 | xnt | import? |
| 12:09.34 | Stskeeps | but same screen size |
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| 12:09.55 | Stskeeps | yeah, so much import that i had to make a makeshift power plug convertor :P |
| 12:10.12 | xnt | might use this as a remote for his future lmce system |
| 12:10.15 | xnt | :P |
| 12:10.41 | xnt | searches ebay |
| 12:11.23 | xnt | http://cgi.ebay.com/SmartQ-5-MID-8GB-touchscreen-PMP-WiFi-Bluetooth_W0QQitemZ360151247991QQcmdZViewItemQQptZOther_MP3_Player_Accessories?hash=item53daafec77&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50 ??? |
| 12:11.45 | xnt | Wait its chinese only? |
| 12:12.00 | Stskeeps | with Mer? no |
| 12:12.09 | Stskeeps | also, you can always open a terminal and edit the locale |
| 12:12.17 | xnt | oh so default os = chinese |
| 12:12.28 | xnt | keyboard? |
| 12:12.38 | Stskeeps | no keyboard |
| 12:12.46 | woglinde | wtf |
| 12:12.51 | woglinde | sdk has no findutils |
| 12:12.52 | xnt | :( / :) |
| 12:13.04 | xnt | what mlocate? |
| 12:13.09 | xnt | or find? |
| 12:13.22 | *** join/#maemo Ryback_ (n=ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 12:13.26 | xnt | <3 mlocate :P |
| 12:13.44 | woglinde | mlocate wont work inside sdk |
| 12:13.44 | xnt | very fast |
| 12:13.52 | xnt | :( |
| 12:14.00 | xnt | maemo 5 or 4? |
| 12:14.27 | woglinde | hms |
| 12:14.29 | woglinde | sdk+ |
| 12:14.32 | woglinde | okay |
| 12:15.46 | xnt | ? |
| 12:15.58 | woglinde | now it works |
| 12:15.59 | xnt | http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/install.html this? |
| 12:16.04 | xnt | ok :) |
| 12:16.18 | woglinde | seems I was to fast |
| 12:16.44 | xnt | needs to go through maemo garage again, I haven't gone there in like a month |
| 12:17.16 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@213.1.53.226) |
| 12:17.43 | lcuk | woglinde, in computing theres not such thing as too fast :P |
| 12:17.59 | xnt | :P |
| 12:18.00 | lcuk | you simply had lag |
| 12:18.19 | woglinde | nono |
| 12:18.25 | woglinde | ist okay |
| 12:18.27 | woglinde | now |
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| 12:41.32 | andrewfblack | Hello |
| 12:41.45 | brankinhu | World! |
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| 12:45.21 | andre__ | eheh. got a first request to clone a bug report from internal to external instead of the other way round. nokia can be funny |
| 12:45.31 | Stskeeps | hehe |
| 12:46.01 | X-Fade | andre__: Can you try to make a case of moving all hildon and modest bugs to the public bugzilla? |
| 12:46.14 | X-Fade | andre__: As they are public projects now :) |
| 12:46.25 | Stskeeps | i concur |
| 12:46.27 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 12:46.34 | andre__ | while i whole-heartly agree that that would be awesome, it's not that easy :-/ |
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| 12:47.13 | X-Fade | andre__: No, I guess that will be hard. Although moving some parts to the public one should be doable. |
| 12:47.42 | X-Fade | andre__: A rule like: public bugzilla by default, unless it contains sensitive info.. |
| 12:48.10 | andre__ | e.g. it would require all involved people to also have accounts in bmo, and there will be comments added (e.g. from testing) that are not meant for public because they sometimes reveal infrastructure and/or hardware information :-/ |
| 12:48.35 | X-Fade | andre__: Things like, save button is insensitive when in this and this dialog... Should just be in the public one? |
| 12:48.55 | andre__ | of course, the issue itself is totally fine for public bugzilla |
| 12:49.07 | andre__ | but correctly *dealing* with the report will require huge changes in nokia's internal workflow |
| 12:49.28 | andre__ | but it might be a good time to start another push into that direction, yeah |
| 12:49.37 | X-Fade | andre__: Well yeah, but they started to move on the path when they decided to open the code. |
| 12:49.41 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (n=alehorst@201.47.23.169.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 12:49.47 | X-Fade | andre__: You are open, or you aren't.. |
| 12:50.30 | andre__ | it's not that black and white :) |
| 12:50.48 | andre__ | i totally agree with the aim |
| 12:50.53 | andre__ | but it's way more complicated :-/ |
| 12:51.13 | andre__ | but yeah. time to push it again and get some people into thinking about this again. |
| 12:51.19 | X-Fade | andre__: It would mean that device testing and things like that should be done somewhere else. |
| 12:51.37 | andre__ | ...which is currently well integrated in the internal bugtracker |
| 12:52.15 | X-Fade | Yeah, well there needs to be a change anyway ;) |
| 12:52.19 | andre__ | +1 |
| 12:52.25 | *** join/#maemo skibur (n=skibur@12.197.204.154) |
| 12:53.38 | andre__ | definitely something for me to think about tonight again while having a beer. but you can imagine, every company has some people that are pushing to get more open, and some people that want to avoid any changes in their workflow ("it has always worked fine for us like this"). |
| 12:53.53 | lcuk | X-Fade, glad i caught you (but i might have to vanish) is it possible to get clean simple exports of certain kinds of data from the m.o (such as user avatars with actual userjpg style filenames instead of UID keys |
| 12:54.01 | andre__ | so sometimes argumentation must be well-prepared and show the advantages (the latter is very important) |
| 12:54.14 | *** join/#maemo udovdh (n=udovdh@pindarots.xs4all.nl) |
| 12:54.47 | X-Fade | andre__: Well with starting to moving things in the open, higher management has already decided that things change. Hard to argue with that ;) |
| 12:54.55 | andre__ | well. i don't tell you anything new here. so conclusion: oh yeah, let me try to move it into the open. somehow. :) |
| 12:55.18 | X-Fade | lcuk: For avatars it is hard as I don't think we have the originals. |
| 12:55.19 | andre__ | higher management *accepted* it because some developers pushed this, that's my impression |
| 12:55.33 | X-Fade | andre__: Well in any case, it happened. |
| 12:55.40 | andre__ | yupp, and that's a good first step |
| 12:55.49 | X-Fade | andre__: So now things need to be adjusted to make sense :) |
| 12:56.20 | lcuk | X-Fade, but in the user list you already do a lookup to get username, and then show his image - if there were a couple of out of the way places to get this raw information, tell you what it will be easier to show you in the next few days |
| 12:56.57 | lcuk | ive got a minimal version already, but its crabby and only shows a glimpse of what im aiming for :) |
| 12:56.59 | X-Fade | lcuk: You would have to explain your use-case better... |
| 12:57.21 | lcuk | ill show it you, picture worth a 1000 words and all that |
| 12:57.39 | lcuk | not now tho lol |
| 12:57.42 | lcuk | you will have to wait :P |
| 12:58.01 | X-Fade | lcuk: story of my life ;) |
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| 12:59.15 | lcuk | ive apparantly lost the ability to take screenshots from within liqbase (code bug deep in the event handler goosed up) so i cant just run and show u |
| 12:59.54 | RST38h | moo lcuk |
| 13:00.13 | RST38h | Are you now retargeting liqbase as a custom interface to maemo.org? =) |
| 13:01.08 | lcuk | now, was just wanting to get some images that meant something to us all :) |
| 13:01.25 | lcuk | theres a few other exports as well i might want, but i might be able to do without exports |
| 13:01.26 | RST38h | Ah |
| 13:01.36 | lcuk | no ^ |
| 13:02.36 | lcuk | anyway, back to stuffs |
| 13:02.40 | lcuk | \o |
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| 13:18.32 | GAN800 | Yeesh, I can't believe what I'm seeing re non-free stuff on the lists. . . . |
| 13:19.48 | GAN800 | andre__, is that a new @nokia.com @maemo.org address. . . . |
| 13:20.39 | andre__ | GAN800, hmm? what do you refer to? |
| 13:20.46 | *** join/#maemo etrunko (n=edulima@200.184.118.130) |
| 13:21.05 | GAN800 | 1805 |
| 13:21.44 | andre__ | nope. i just set the missing qa defaults for three bugs |
| 13:21.52 | andre__ | that address existed before already |
| 13:22.54 | GAN800 | ah, ok |
| 13:23.46 | andre__ | nothing worse than before ;-)) |
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| 13:39.35 | RST38h | Whoever wants talk.maemo.org and/or maemo.org in a "dark" color scheme, vote here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4467 |
| 13:39.46 | RST38h | And leave comments |
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| 13:53.00 | GAN800 | X-Fade, just so you know, your reply to 4417 was, apparently, 'hostile'. |
| 13:54.10 | X-Fade | GAN800: Huh? |
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| 13:54.20 | *** join/#maemo abner (n=birunko@200.184.118.130) |
| 13:55.46 | X-Fade | GAN800: I just asked if they could test something? Didn't close it with WORKSFORME or anything like that? |
| 13:56.04 | GAN800 | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?=284792&postcount=32 |
| 13:56.28 | X-Fade | GAN800: Doesn't work? |
| 13:57.35 | GAN800 | oops http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=284792&postcount=32 |
| 14:00.54 | X-Fade | GAN800: Sigh.. |
| 14:01.31 | RST38h | X-Fade: Well, to be frank, the login system is somehow screwed up even withough web cache |
| 14:02.25 | X-Fade | RST38h: Whatever device I use, PCs, other connections, friends and family. It always works for me. |
| 14:02.32 | RST38h | X-Fade: Can't explain the exact behaviour at the moment, but it takes usually takes me several attempts to login from home (no cache) |
| 14:02.40 | RST38h | X-Fade: Maybe I am doing something wrong? |
| 14:03.00 | X-Fade | My guess is that the server doesn't send cache-invalidate headers./ |
| 14:03.16 | RST38h | X-Fade: Sometimes I have to manually add "s" to "http" for it to register my login |
| 14:03.29 | X-Fade | RST38h: You should never have to do that. |
| 14:03.40 | RST38h | X-Fade: You mean, the page gets stuck in the local FF cache? |
| 14:03.46 | X-Fade | It probably means that you got a server side or client side cached page. |
| 14:04.11 | RST38h | X-Fade: Well, then something is wrong on the server side |
| 14:04.12 | X-Fade | And clicking through to some pages where you haven't been before would probably show that you in fact are logged in. |
| 14:04.15 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gateway.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 14:04.24 | RST38h | X-Fade: Yes, sometimes |
| 14:04.49 | RST38h | But something is definitely wrong with logins |
| 14:05.24 | X-Fade | Funny thing is, I really can't reproduce it at all. |
| 14:05.29 | X-Fade | And believe me, I tried. |
| 14:06.15 | X-Fade | I have multiple accounts, new, admin. Everything just works fine for me. |
| 14:06.35 | RST38h | Maybe when it sees you it always logs you in by default? :) |
| 14:07.19 | RST38h | BTW, this crap occurred to me with the "old" maemo.org design but then it went away after you fixed something |
| 14:07.36 | X-Fade | No, I have lots of browsers installed and flushed caches. It always takes only one attempt and the page that comes up after login shows my name. |
| 14:07.42 | RST38h | It resurfaced with the new design, although not sure if it has got the same cause |
| 14:07.59 | *** join/#maemo alehorst (n=alehorst@201.47.23.169.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 14:08.04 | GAN800 | Ah, Texrat is in in it now. |
| 14:08.13 | *** join/#maemo mlpug (n=mlpug@a91-156-60-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:08.18 | GAN800 | tries not to shoot barbs in his direction. |
| 14:08.41 | X-Fade | GAN800: But anyway, I've read the bug comment again. And I can't find anything hostile in there. |
| 14:08.58 | GAN800 | X-Fade, because there's not. |
| 14:08.58 | RST38h | X-Fade: "WORKSFORME" keyword sounds hostile |
| 14:09.05 | RST38h | ducks |
| 14:09.12 | X-Fade | RST38h: It is not in there? |
| 14:09.25 | X-Fade | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4417#c1 |
| 14:09.28 | GAN800 | qole took the poster's claim of 'smoking something' at face value. |
| 14:10.09 | RST38h | now, that's childish |
| 14:11.17 | X-Fade | Sad.. |
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| 14:11.34 | X-Fade | And even worse for a council member. |
| 14:11.57 | GAN800 | itT is a mess these days |
| 14:12.04 | *** join/#maemo mlpug (n=mlpug@a91-156-60-13.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:12.15 | GAN800 | and Quim was proposing closing -community in favor of it. . . . |
| 14:13.21 | RST38h | GAN: That will make one mess from two, good idea IMHO :) |
| 14:14.18 | GAN800 | You're losing an awful lot of good contributors moving it to itT |
| 14:14.24 | X-Fade | I think we just need to add a 10 second counter after each post. |
| 14:14.28 | GAN800 | Whatever your personal bias is. |
| 14:14.42 | X-Fade | And then ask if the person still wants to post the comment ;) |
| 14:14.44 | RST38h | Possibly, yes... |
| 14:15.09 | RST38h | Maybe creating some limited kind of a gateway would work |
| 14:15.16 | lardman | hey |
| 14:15.26 | RST38h | Maybe gate -community postings into ITT but not the vice versa? |
| 14:15.29 | RST38h | yo lardman |
| 14:15.41 | lardman | hi RST38h |
| 14:16.06 | GAN800 | I want to see the vBulletin mailing list integration. |
| 14:16.20 | X-Fade | I just think it is sad that people always have to add emotions into simple technical discussions. |
| 14:16.30 | RST38h | X-Fade: People have agendas |
| 14:16.32 | *** join/#maemo radic_ (n=radic@ip-77-24-228-4.web.vodafone.de) |
| 14:16.53 | RST38h | X-Fade: And, when it comes to look-and-feel, things become highly subjective |
| 14:17.24 | X-Fade | RST38h: "Can you test this" is not really something to get emotional about? :) |
| 14:17.34 | RST38h | Now, what I do not understand, is why the website/forum guys do not just implement what forum members are asking them, at least in some limited form |
| 14:18.07 | RST38h | X-Fade: I am afraid the login thing is so overheated because of the overall feeling about the website |
| 14:18.41 | RST38h | X-Fade: it is interpreted as "bad layout, weird colors, all familiar pages lost, and I can't even login" or something like that |
| 14:19.04 | X-Fade | RST38h: Waste of energy, really. |
| 14:19.42 | RST38h | vividly remembers some guy in Logan attacking an airline representative |
| 14:20.28 | RST38h | After the airline lost his luggage and kept him in the terminal for two days. Approximately the same shit happsn on itt |
| 14:21.27 | woglinde | rst was he shoot down? |
| 14:22.18 | woglinde | args maemo python has not xml.minidom |
| 14:23.17 | RST38h | woglinde: naaah, it was before 9/11 |
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| 14:33.23 | *** part/#maemo danielwilms (n=dwilms@147.243.155.42) |
| 14:34.18 | digidietze | Does anybody know how I can reach a webmaster of maemo.org? |
| 14:34.39 | X-Fade | digidietze: I have an idea, yes ;) |
| 14:35.29 | digidietze | I left a post on the Developer forum about pic uploading two days ago |
| 14:35.59 | digidietze | but have got no hint or help yet |
| 14:36.19 | X-Fade | digidietze: Let me look it up. |
| 14:36.34 | digidietze | Great, thanks! |
| 14:36.51 | lardman | digidietze: webmaster@ ...? |
| 14:37.00 | X-Fade | digidietze: Tip: always just state your problem in your mail. |
| 14:37.01 | lardman | worked for me anyway a few times |
| 14:37.08 | X-Fade | Not "where can I find the webmaster" :) |
| 14:37.16 | X-Fade | *in your subject. |
| 14:37.30 | digidietze | OK. Got it. |
| 14:37.56 | X-Fade | digidietze: But it is a known problem and I have asked bergie to look at it. |
| 14:38.35 | lardman | anyone seen an RDS manipulation lib in the new beta release? |
| 14:38.41 | digidietze | That's news. I thought there were only two |
| 14:38.44 | lardman | s/beta/SDK beta |
| 14:39.52 | X-Fade | digidietze: I think the index field which contains the screenshot names for those applications is corrupted, but we have to find out what it is exactly. |
| 14:41.13 | digidietze | It might have helped if there had been a confirmation about the problem on bugs.maemo.org; I would not have inquired further |
| 14:42.56 | X-Fade | digidietze: Well, one tip there too. Please add only one problem per bug. |
| 14:43.46 | X-Fade | digidietze: User Login Quirks (and Upload Broken) is not a good way to describe the problem. |
| 14:44.08 | X-Fade | As those can easily be problems that need to be handled by different people. |
| 14:44.44 | X-Fade | But anyway, the login problem is another bug already and is being worked on. |
| 14:44.59 | X-Fade | The upload problem is something that still needs to be looked at. |
| 14:44.59 | *** join/#maemo Cwiiis (n=cwiiis@158.43.2.102) |
| 14:46.28 | RST38h | android powered netbooks. mghm |
| 14:46.44 | woglinde | rst yes |
| 14:46.50 | GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, are you abusing volunteers again? ;) |
| 14:46.52 | woglinde | rumors since some time |
| 14:46.59 | GeneralAntilles | Who the hell would want to use Android in that formfactor. |
| 14:47.06 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Huh? |
| 14:47.20 | RST38h | has no idea either. It sounds strange |
| 14:47.22 | GeneralAntilles | Setting aside the question of "Who the hell would want to use Android?" of course. |
| 14:47.26 | GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, exactly. :P |
| 14:47.42 | RST38h | At the very least, this thing would have to have SOME office apps |
| 14:47.45 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Hey, that was my line. Don't steal that ;) |
| 14:47.59 | woglinde | http://www.betavine.net/bvportal/web/guest/mobile_linux/blog |
| 14:48.02 | *** join/#maemo GAN800 (n=ryan@2416422hfc34.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 14:48.31 | Mikho | would someone know a solution for this? I'm trying to compile third party code, but the make process requires a stubs-32.h -file in /usr/include/gnu folder. The file is included in the libc6-dev package, but only in i386 version. The armel package doesn't have it. What can I do? |
| 14:49.33 | RST38h | See what version of libc and gcc your armel sdk has? |
| 14:50.10 | RST38h | checks what this file is about |
| 14:52.13 | RST38h | Mikho: Ok, your code has got -m32 or some other ia32 specific option in its makefiles |
| 14:52.37 | RST38h | Mikho: You have to remove it, possibly by explicitely telling make what architecture you are compiling it for |
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| 14:52.55 | digidietze | The bug no. #4383 mentioned in the forum post was actually reported by someone else. I just added a comment to confirm it |
| 14:53.49 | GAN800 | digidietze, be sure to add a vote to bugs you want to confirm. |
| 14:54.29 | X-Fade | digidietze: Hmm yeah, your bug is duplicate to #4383. |
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| 14:55.09 | X-Fade | digidietze: And the other part is duplicate to: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4417 probably ;) |
| 14:56.27 | Mikho | hmm |
| 14:56.32 | lopz | hi |
| 14:56.37 | Mikho | the problem is just it's not my code |
| 14:56.57 | Mikho | but I'll try to search for the -m32 |
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| 14:57.35 | digidietze | I did vote for the bug 4383 as soon as I saw it. And yes, you are right about multiple bug reporting. |
| 14:58.07 | X-Fade | digidietze: Do you mind if I close your bug as duplicate and follow up on the others? |
| 14:58.28 | X-Fade | That way we have 2 separate bugs tracking these issues. |
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| 15:00.55 | digidietze | I thought I was first ... and there might be some information in the posts of this bug (4386) |
| 15:01.42 | X-Fade | Yeah, but it is also a mess talking about all kinds of things ;) |
| 15:02.18 | X-Fade | And if you experience the problem with logging in to bugzilla too, then I'm certain that the problem is at you end. |
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| 15:02.37 | X-Fade | Because that is a completely difference service, running on a different server. |
| 15:03.02 | digidietze | OK, maybe I connected dots that are unrelated |
| 15:03.04 | GeneralAntilles | doesn't feel like setting up a computer to work on the Bugzilla templates. |
| 15:05.18 | digidietze | Feel free to close the bug. I'm comfortable with knowing that help is on the way :) |
| 15:05.34 | X-Fade | digidietze: You should receive a bunch of bugzilla mails ;) |
| 15:06.37 | GeneralAntilles | I was watching some poor lady tote around a Kindle yesterday at the Apple store |
| 15:06.46 | GeneralAntilles | Seems like an awful lot of effort to carry an ebook reader. |
| 15:07.31 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Wait until you go on holiday and need to take about 3kg books with you like I do. |
| 15:07.42 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe |
| 15:07.43 | lardman | X-Fade: +1 to that |
| 15:07.47 | GeneralAntilles | Hooray, tablet. |
| 15:07.48 | RST38h | uses a cell phone for that |
| 15:07.59 | lardman | X-Fade: I'd be a bit worried about someone borrowing it if I leave it on the beach though |
| 15:08.06 | GeneralAntilles | I've managed to get digital copies of most of my textbooks for the past 3 years. |
| 15:08.10 | RST38h | uses damn cell phone for pretty much everything nowadays, the thing even got chew marks on it |
| 15:08.55 | *** join/#maemo febb (n=febb@unaffiliated/febb) |
| 15:09.29 | GeneralAntilles | lol, and the Kindle just got bigger. |
| 15:13.38 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, chew your nails much? :P |
| 15:14.43 | digidietze | My bugzilla problem is probably browser-related. Firefox worked fine. It smells like a cache problem of Opera. |
| 15:15.05 | X-Fade | digidietze: Well, it can be that we don't send the correct cache invalidation headers. |
| 15:15.21 | X-Fade | digidietze: But both FF and IE have no problems for me. |
| 15:15.33 | X-Fade | digidietze: And my tablet works fine too. |
| 15:16.41 | GeneralAntilles | Is there any way we could make maemo.org logins somewhat persistent? |
| 15:16.51 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: They are? |
| 15:16.55 | GeneralAntilles | I'm tired of having to login every time I want to heart/thumb something |
| 15:17.04 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: I never have to? |
| 15:17.09 | Stskeeps | my impression is that they aren't either, not sure why |
| 15:17.15 | GeneralAntilles | I'd love to be able to stay logged in for an appreciable amount of time. |
| 15:17.25 | mikkov_ | my login is very persistent |
| 15:17.29 | GeneralAntilles | Moving between 3 machines regularly maybe doesn't help? |
| 15:17.30 | X-Fade | Do you clear cache close? |
| 15:17.31 | RST38h | X-Fade: I also have to relogin at random seemingly |
| 15:17.43 | X-Fade | There is a timout of a few days. |
| 15:17.48 | X-Fade | Or when your ip changes, I guess. |
| 15:17.54 | X-Fade | Which mine never does. |
| 15:18.06 | RST38h | X-Fade: I do access the site from multiple IPs (work, home, mobile, etc) |
| 15:18.07 | GeneralAntilles | IP hasn't been changing, and it's definitely more often than once a day most of the time. |
| 15:18.23 | RST38h | X-Fade: Can you just store a cookie at each client and use that? |
| 15:18.33 | RST38h | ITT seems to do that pretty well, too |
| 15:18.56 | GeneralAntilles | I don't really have any troubles on Bugzilla either. |
| 15:19.15 | X-Fade | Bugzilla cookie expires in 2038 ;) |
| 15:19.39 | RST38h | wonders if NITs will still be around |
| 15:19.44 | mikkov_ | my bugzilla login times out in couple of hours |
| 15:20.09 | GeneralAntilles | Oops, Reggie used "TALK" |
| 15:21.18 | Stskeeps | uh |
| 15:21.19 | X-Fade | the TALK even ;) |
| 15:21.49 | GeneralAntilles | files a few bugs. |
| 15:21.52 | Stskeeps | .seen qwerty12 |
| 15:22.06 | RST38h | BTW another weird feature about logins: |
| 15:22.16 | RST38h | talk.maemo.org and maemo.org seem to have different records of me |
| 15:22.23 | X-Fade | Sure. |
| 15:22.29 | X-Fade | Different host |
| 15:22.30 | RST38h | talk. reports me as "fms", maemo.org shows my full name |
| 15:22.50 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@213.1.52.199) |
| 15:23.11 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, vBulletin doesn't have you fullname in its account info |
| 15:23.23 | *** join/#maemo konttori_ (n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 15:23.24 | GeneralAntilles | The accounts are separate from maemo.org's |
| 15:23.24 | RST38h | ok, so it is a different database of users? |
| 15:23.30 | RST38h | I see |
| 15:23.31 | GeneralAntilles | Same as the itT database. |
| 15:23.45 | GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, header TALK link can change. |
| 15:23.48 | X-Fade | Just a different skin on top of itt. |
| 15:24.00 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Let's wait a day so every dns has been updated. |
| 15:24.14 | GeneralAntilles | OK |
| 15:24.32 | X-Fade | Don't want more angry people ;) |
| 15:24.37 | RST38h | "Firefox has detected that the server is redirecting the request for this address in a way that will never complete." <-- from itt |
| 15:25.02 | mikkov_ | ^ |
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| 15:25.32 | X-Fade | Reggie is just switching over, give him a few minutes ;) |
| 15:26.05 | RST38h | ah |
| 15:26.11 | GeneralAntilles | But we want it now! ;) |
| 15:26.16 | mikkov_ | yeah, now it's completely borked :) |
| 15:27.20 | RST38h | General: To complain about how it did not work 30 seconds ago? =) |
| 15:27.28 | *** join/#maemo Dar_ (n=Dar_K@nat/sun/x-46be7f17578bed5d) |
| 15:29.16 | RST38h | Hmmm...RTComm and Media are now developed at Bangalore? |
| 15:31.35 | *** join/#maemo sjgadsby (n=sjgadsby@166.66.56.73) |
| 15:31.37 | X-Fade | RST38h: Could be, there are a lot of job offerings there too? |
| 15:33.01 | RST38h | Yep, almost exclusively there at the moment |
| 15:34.23 | RST38h | There is just one offering for US (Mountain View) which seems to deal with supporting exteranl parties (Adobe? =)) |
| 15:34.39 | GeneralAntilles | Reggie really does kick ass at Bugzilla |
| 15:35.08 | GeneralAntilles | Whenever we put together those Bugzilla report cards I'm giving him an "A+++++ would buy from again" |
| 15:38.06 | RST38h | cannot convert parameter 1 from 'int' to 'U32' |
| 15:38.33 | RST38h | cannot convert parameter 2 from 'U16' to 'U32' <--- gcc went into bullshitting mode |
| 15:40.50 | sjgadsby | Grr. This computer is too slow. |
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| 15:43.25 | GeneralAntilles | sjgadsby, story of my life lately. |
| 15:43.51 | sjgadsby | That reminds me, how is your leaky Mac repair/replacement going? |
| 15:45.54 | GeneralAntilles | sjgadsby, dropped it off at the Apple store yesterday |
| 15:46.24 | GeneralAntilles | They gave me a parts list that totals out over $3000, so I called the customer relations guy yesterday to ask about a replacement again. |
| 15:46.36 | GeneralAntilles | Hopefully he'll call me back at some point today. |
| 15:46.48 | sjgadsby | Sheesh. |
| 15:47.09 | sjgadsby | Here's hoping you just get a new machine. |
| 15:47.11 | GeneralAntilles | I apparently copied down his extension incorrectly, and there are three people by that name at Apple. |
| 15:47.27 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, here's hoping |
| 15:47.52 | GeneralAntilles | I can't imagine they'd really prefer replacing the CPU assembly, motherboard, power supply, and case over just giving me a new machine. |
| 15:48.25 | sjgadsby | Agreed. The repair doesn't sound to be worth their time or money. |
| 15:48.36 | ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles, what would they not replace? |
| 15:48.40 | RST38h | Get a Gateway! |
| 15:48.45 | RST38h | ducks, then hides quickly |
| 15:48.53 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, unfortunately the people in the store aren't enabled to do shit, apparently. |
| 15:49.17 | GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, because the CSR guy didn't authorize a replacement, he authorized a repair. |
| 15:49.50 | ShadowJK | No I mean, what's left to replace after all that... harddrive and ram? |
| 15:50.26 | GeneralAntilles | Graphics cards, and a lot of little internal bits and pieces (fans, etc.) but, yeah, not much. |
| 15:50.46 | GeneralAntilles | s/cards/card/ |
| 15:51.01 | ShadowJK | Oh I thought the fans would count as part of case :-) |
| 15:51.17 | GeneralAntilles | Nah, most of them are modular. |
| 15:51.46 | GeneralAntilles | I will be so fucking happy if I can get a Mac Pro out of this, though. . . . |
| 15:54.24 | ShadowJK | Funny that if you buy a low-end brandname case you usually get a PSU too, preinstalled, but if you buy a high-end brandname case you usually get fans preinstalled and no psu :-) |
| 15:54.31 | GeneralAntilles | Lot of people there yesterday with 1st gen iPhone with lines on the screen and no recourse but a $200 repair. |
| 15:54.43 | ShadowJK | what, warranty over already? |
| 15:54.56 | GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, yeah, but the PSU you get bundled with that case is rather likely to explode on you. ;) |
| 15:55.05 | GeneralAntilles | 1-year warranty |
| 15:55.23 | GeneralAntilles | In the ~1.5 years old range |
| 15:55.30 | ShadowJK | mine didn't explode, but it did see fit to auto-overclock my board by sending 6V down 3.3V line |
| 15:55.39 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 15:55.57 | GeneralAntilles | It's a 600watt PSU in my G5 |
| 15:56.01 | ShadowJK | But the contract is longer than 1 year.. what are people, stupid? |
| 15:56.30 | GeneralAntilles | Well, they did buy iPhones. ;) |
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| 15:58.51 | lardman | Talking about contracts, I had a chap on the phone today from TalkTalk asking me my name, address, dob, etc |
| 15:59.03 | lardman | I told him no and he became quite upset |
| 15:59.09 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 15:59.15 | ShadowJK | What did he say? |
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| 15:59.44 | lardman | and it turns out they wanted to offer me something like £15 for signing up for another 18months, as opposed to my keeping my existing rolling contract, hmm I wonder if I should take it.....? ;) |
| 16:00.25 | lardman | not exactly enough to make me sign my life away for the next year and a half |
| 16:01.15 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 16:01.29 | GeneralAntilles | See if you can talk him into giving you an RX-51. ;) |
| 16:01.32 | lardman | lol, the funniest thing was that I offered to give my dob if he would tell me my account number, and he said he couldn't as with that information I could impersonate myself :D |
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| 16:01.53 | lardman | GeneralAntilles: ! |
| 16:01.59 | ShadowJK | hm :) |
| 16:02.09 | ShadowJK | two way challenge-response authentication :) |
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| 16:02.55 | ShadowJK | lardman, next time, offer him to sum up the numbers in your account number and DOB, and that if he gets it right you'll tell him your full DOB |
| 16:03.13 | lardman | hmm, I'm not sure he'd have been able to manage that one |
| 16:03.52 | lardman | GeneralAntilles: come on then, where are these new devices? |
| 16:03.55 | lardman | :) |
| 16:04.40 | lardman | I was thinking of getting one of those usb2vga adaptors for a minute there (for £30), but after some serious digging it looks like that chipset isn't supported |
| 16:04.44 | *** join/#maemo havan (n=havan@unaffiliated/havan) |
| 16:04.50 | lardman | and the supported ones are ~£50 :( |
| 16:05.29 | GeneralAntilles | lardman, dunno, you tell me. :P |
| 16:06.11 | lardman | oh, I thought that was a subtle hint about a TalkTalk tie in ;) |
| 16:06.33 | lardman | Ah well, fingers crossed for some time in July then |
| 16:06.39 | Mikho | I cannot find the -m32 flag anywhere in the code and nothing mentions stubs-32.h |
| 16:07.14 | Mikho | what kind of things could imply the use of stubs-32.h? |
| 16:07.45 | lardman | using a 64bit compiler? |
| 16:10.57 | Mikho | the compiler i'm using is cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-arm |
| 16:12.14 | lardman | hmm, no idea then |
| 16:12.15 | lardman | sorry |
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| 16:14.36 | Mikho | never mind... |
| 16:15.00 | lardman | ./me heads for the cinema, see you guys later/tomorrow |
| 16:15.17 | Mikho | the problem was called the "always run make clean when you switch targets" |
| 16:15.24 | Mikho | rule |
| 16:15.40 | derf | :) |
| 16:15.51 | Mikho | of course it used the object files I had compiled for i386 |
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| 16:16.27 | Mikho | 2 hours of work time completely wasted |
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| 18:14.10 | radic | Is it possible to use 3 akkus together? |
| 18:14.31 | radic | and could they charched by the n800? |
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| 18:24.02 | radic | Stskeeps |
| 18:29.04 | LiraNuna | does b-man ever hang our here? |
| 18:33.11 | lcuk | yeah but later |
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| 18:52.46 | Guest3410_089 | any idea about''official'' unbuntu mid? |
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| 19:18.20 | lcuk | has happy pills |
| 19:19.42 | lcuk | GeneralAntilles, yes |
| 19:19.53 | lcuk | but about 10% less at the moment |
| 19:21.27 | GAN800 | lcuk, context? |
| 19:21.41 | GAN800 | doesn't remember what he asked. |
| 19:21.43 | lcuk | do i chew my nails much |
| 19:22.13 | *** join/#maemo Stskeeps (n=chobits@84.238.11.16) |
| 19:22.16 | GAN800 | lol |
| 19:23.05 | GAN800 | I can see why nail chewers might like using the stylus. ;) |
| 19:23.31 | lcuk | heh yeah |
| 19:23.47 | lcuk | what else am i gonna do if theres no bacon |
| 19:23.57 | woglinde | bacon |
| 19:24.11 | lcuk | hi woglinde |
| 19:24.26 | lcuk | GAN800, did you see the pic then |
| 19:24.40 | GAN800 | Yeah, looks nice. |
| 19:24.52 | GAN800 | I like the bruise moving up the finger. |
| 19:25.31 | lcuk | yeah - it reallllllly hurt this afternoon, i dropped my pen and instinctively reached out to grab it |
| 19:26.24 | CutMeOwnThroat | and the pen was a laser sword? |
| 19:26.50 | lcuk | no CutMeOwnThroat - it might not be so ironic if it was |
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| 19:28.29 | sjgadsby | thinks lcuk has taken his quest for a free RX-51 a bit too far. |
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| 19:29.17 | lcuk | shame it got me nowhere lol |
| 19:30.19 | lcuk | talk. is starting to look a little easier on the eyes - improved muchly once the meta data calmed down and titles stopped repeating |
| 19:30.53 | sjgadsby | Eh, file an enhancement request to add "Bled for Nokia" to the karma calculation. At least your position will rise in the developer device program. |
| 19:31.41 | sjgadsby | Yes, now it's just the topics that repeat. |
| 19:31.55 | lcuk | well sjgadsby i said i would give my right hand to be involved :P i really didnt think they would take it literally |
| 19:32.23 | lcuk | bbl anyway its easier to type now, but theres 2 of everything |
| 19:32.29 | sjgadsby | The Finns are a very literal people. |
| 19:34.59 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 19:35.31 | GeneralAntilles | I'm just glad we managed to dodge the searching flamewar when overfloat brought that one up. |
| 19:35.54 | GuySoft | oh my.. i just found out someone in the world hates me |
| 19:36.16 | sjgadsby | Only one person, GuySoft? You're not trying hard enough. |
| 19:36.36 | GuySoft | sjgadsby, no its really a strange one - let me tell |
| 19:36.57 | GuySoft | ok.. so i get this strange comment on my latest blog post about the nokia-sugar thing |
| 19:37.40 | GeneralAntilles | Seriously, if you're not getting at least one hate mail a week, you aint doing it right. ;) |
| 19:37.56 | GeneralAntilles | sjgadsby, you managed any bugzilla hatemail yet? |
| 19:38.17 | sjgadsby | No, no hatemail yet. |
| 19:38.28 | GuySoft | that says something like "thank you so much" and points to a really strange URL, its a wordpress blog with a lot of links to software downloads.. while i am not sure if to approve the comment i google the url of the blog: reysoft.wordpress.com .. when i googled it i understand why the guy hates me |
| 19:39.11 | Stskeeps | ah, heh |
| 19:39.22 | GeneralAntilles | sjgadsby, ah, too bad. That freejazz character sent me death threats. |
| 19:39.52 | sjgadsby | is impressed. |
| 19:39.54 | GuySoft | ill try to sum up: when you google this guys blog, you get mine.. |
| 19:40.18 | GuySoft | so he commented on my blog with a link.. |
| 19:40.22 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
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| 19:41.19 | GuySoft | i mean, i can imagine how annoying it is to him. supose i google: guysoft.wordpress.com ,. and googles says back: Did you mean: reysoft.wordpress.com Top 2 results shown |
| 19:41.31 | GuySoft | thats what the poor guy gets.. |
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| 19:43.39 | derf | GuySoft: I doubt he hates you... he just wants you to post the link so increase his PageRank. |
| 19:43.44 | derf | *to |
| 19:44.18 | GuySoft | derf, but i am against spamdexing.. i preach about it to all the morons that come to me and say they want to advance their website in google |
| 19:44.29 | GuySoft | ah! the irony! |
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| 19:46.25 | CutMeOwnThroat | GuySoft, well, side effect of google ranking # of links over everything else (even spelling) |
| 19:46.49 | CutMeOwnThroat | both :) |
| 19:47.38 | CutMeOwnThroat | anyway, googling urls is kinda stupid :) |
| 19:48.16 | GuySoft | CutMeOwnThroat, i dono.. i just looked at this blog of his.. it has links to a lot of free software in a commercial website without attribution.. i am against that too.. |
| 19:48.58 | CutMeOwnThroat | so whaddaya care |
| 19:49.12 | GuySoft | CutMeOwnThroat, i tend to do ctrl+k ctrl+v instead of ctrl+l ctrl+v my mistake.. |
| 19:49.26 | GuySoft | by* |
| 19:49.29 | CutMeOwnThroat | ? |
| 19:50.35 | tank-man | delete his comment :) |
| 19:50.40 | tank-man | do it! |
| 19:51.15 | GuySoft | CutMeOwnThroat, well i am just surprised i found out why.. i think ill have to listen to tank-man that goes with my logic |
| 19:51.36 | CutMeOwnThroat | or change it to "my google-fu is weak" |
| 19:51.55 | GuySoft | i mean CutMeOwnThroat just tried to convince me to help a spamdexer that links to software without attribution (and also CutMeOwnThroat proved he is stupid) |
| 19:52.37 | GuySoft | CutMeOwnThroat, na.. i think the most evil thing i could have done if i wanted to, its just remove the url.. then when he searches his username it would also link to my blog |
| 19:52.41 | CutMeOwnThroat | I tried to convince you of anything? |
| 19:53.03 | CutMeOwnThroat | and yay, I proved that I'm stupid |
| 19:53.04 | CutMeOwnThroat | interesting |
| 19:53.19 | CutMeOwnThroat | wonder how I did it |
| 19:53.29 | GuySoft | CutMeOwnThroat, i thought you did when you said i shouldn't care. misunderstanding |
| 19:53.46 | CutMeOwnThroat | <GuySoft> oh my.. i just found out someone in the world hates me |
| 19:53.49 | GuySoft | CutMeOwnThroat, we are all stupid.. look at my reply - i do it too |
| 19:53.54 | CutMeOwnThroat | I shouldn't wonder why you care? |
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| 19:54.56 | GuySoft | CutMeOwnThroat, ya.. i guess i did , i am not sure if it passed by now.. |
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| 19:55.30 | GuySoft | CutMeOwnThroat, i think we better drop the subject.. i have to get back to my homework in electromagnetism (bloody dipoles) |
| 19:55.44 | GeneralAntilles | If the h-a-m in the beta matches the internal release, what the HELL has that team been working on in the past year? . . . |
| 19:55.54 | CutMeOwnThroat | oh, didn't know you need blood to get electromagnets to work |
| 19:56.51 | GuySoft | CutMeOwnThroat, you need blood for the multipole derivation.. and a few forbidden items.. |
| 19:57.28 | GuySoft | .. and i dont mean Taylor series |
| 19:57.37 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: Ovi Porn |
| 19:58.20 | CutMeOwnThroat | well, go and sacrifice a goat, then |
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| 20:03.41 | GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, seems like that would require work on h-a-m. . . . |
| 20:04.05 | GeneralAntilles | If they're working on a separate applications I'm going to petition to have them all drawn and quartered |
| 20:07.46 | paul0 | hi |
| 20:07.55 | paul0 | i've saw a OLSR port to N770 |
| 20:08.06 | paul0 | it will run on N800 (OS2008) |
| 20:08.07 | paul0 | ? |
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| 20:12.44 | GeneralAntilles | We didn't even get any UI momentum going while we had the chance. . . . |
| 20:12.50 | GeneralAntilles | sighs |
| 20:14.51 | GeneralAntilles | We need somebody to mock up some real tabs for Newstyle. http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Brainstorm_frontpage.png |
| 20:15.27 | *** join/#maemo radic_ (n=radic@ip-90-187-227-71.web.vodafone.de) |
| 20:20.44 | lcuk | GeneralAntilles, wheres the link to these app categories things |
| 20:20.48 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@40.84-49-134.nextgentel.com) |
| 20:20.57 | GeneralAntilles | ~categories |
| 20:21.05 | GeneralAntilles | ~package-categories |
| 20:21.31 | GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories |
| 20:21.40 | GeneralAntilles | ~categories is http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories |
| 20:21.40 | infobot | okay, GeneralAntilles |
| 20:22.09 | lcuk | thx, are those example apps canon? |
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| 20:25.31 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, only to an extent |
| 20:25.38 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, what's the real question? |
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| 20:25.58 | lcuk | nothin lol, you answered it :) |
| 20:26.19 | lcuk | did you solicit translations for "Other"? |
| 20:26.32 | GeneralAntilles | Yes, but Other isn't a valid category. |
| 20:26.42 | GeneralAntilles | That's for packages with invalid categories ONLY. |
| 20:27.48 | lcuk | i know other isnt a valid category, but it would need a translated tag |
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| 20:56.57 | lcuk | mmm did you know "boston dynamics" lab used an n810 to control the Big Dog robot (the one that walked over anything and could be kicked and stuff) - at least they show one in the advert |
| 20:56.59 | lcuk | http://www.bostondynamics.com/robot_bigdog.html |
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| 20:57.33 | lcuk | http://www.bostondynamics.com/img/BigDog_OCU.png |
| 20:58.05 | Proteous | that's cool |
| 20:58.34 | GeneralAntilles | Veeery interesting |
| 20:58.42 | GeneralAntilles | That thing is loud as all get out, though. |
| 20:59.37 | lcuk | yeah thats the genny |
| 20:59.46 | lcuk | they should replace it with an rtg |
| 21:00.00 | lcuk | silence at the expense of extra limbs! |
| 21:00.29 | GeneralAntilles | They need to get a Honda powerplant |
| 21:00.32 | GeneralAntilles | Those things are silent. |
| 21:00.34 | RST38h | that is the gasoline engine they are using |
| 21:01.10 | RST38h | besides, do you really want It to approach silently behind your back? =) |
| 21:01.43 | lcuk | it should drag a chain behind it and let out a low tense breathing sound |
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| 21:01.58 | GeneralAntilles | It's like painting a giant bullseye on the squad |
| 21:02.44 | lcuk | it depends where it would be used |
| 21:03.46 | GeneralAntilles | Squads like that don't generally move around in areas where combat isn't a possibility. |
| 21:03.57 | RST38h | suspects that is NOT what will be used, but THIS will: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/533982/spy_plane_predator/ |
| 21:04.04 | GeneralAntilles | The average pack load has gotten pretty ridiculous in recent years. |
| 21:04.18 | GeneralAntilles | For carrying cargo? |
| 21:04.31 | RST38h | For hitting targets |
| 21:04.33 | lbt | Qt now runs on Mer ;) http://www.flickr.com/photos/96141280@N00/3508663122/ I hereby declare it day-2-day usable.... ;) |
| 21:04.44 | RST38h | Isn't this what people with guns were originally for? |
| 21:05.00 | GeneralAntilles | The big dog is for carrying cargo. |
| 21:05.03 | *** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@94.63.233.220.exetel.com.au) |
| 21:05.13 | RST38h | Yea, I know |
| 21:05.17 | GeneralAntilles | lbt, xserver work yet> |
| 21:05.45 | RST38h | All I mean is that it makes more political sense to use small plane airstrikes instead |
| 21:05.46 | lbt | bootifully |
| 21:06.07 | GeneralAntilles | Eh, they tried initially in Iraq |
| 21:06.20 | GeneralAntilles | Fact of the matter you need troops on the ground |
| 21:06.29 | RST38h | Once you place people on the ground, you have got a potential PR problem on your hands |
| 21:06.51 | RST38h | General: Depends on what you want to do. If you want to occupy places then yes |
| 21:07.25 | RST38h | Occupying Iraq or Afghanistan is pretty stupid though. |
| 21:07.59 | GeneralAntilles | Nationbuilding silliness is about as stupid as it gets |
| 21:08.57 | lcuk | OMG @ what quim just realised |
| 21:09.13 | RST38h | General: Exactly |
| 21:10.22 | RST38h | And if US wants to hit a bunch of towelheads, the Predator and/or marines will do the job with minimal potential damage |
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| 21:11.42 | StsN800 | lcuk: its official: maemo.org is bad for your fingers. |
| 21:13.06 | johnx | lbt, congrats. very cool. |
| 21:15.17 | lbt | johnx: thanks ;) |
| 21:15.22 | lbt | it works well |
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| 21:19.10 | GeneralAntilles | Just a heads up to Mer developers. I'm going to find a new thing to harp on until everything is 100% feature-complete compared to Maemo, so don't get disheartened by it. :P |
| 21:19.17 | lcuk | :D lbt, so the gradient thingy slicing bug is cured, or this is that it made it through obs? |
| 21:19.53 | lbt | this is the 'old' version using css |
| 21:20.02 | lbt | css didn't have the bug |
| 21:20.12 | lcuk | yeah, i meant the version of qt |
| 21:20.26 | lbt | Oh, Qt still has the bug for gradients |
| 21:20.39 | lcuk | did obs take much wrangling? |
| 21:20.42 | lbt | I just don't use that kind of gradient |
| 21:20.48 | lbt | no |
| 21:20.53 | lcuk | yeah completely understandable |
| 21:20.53 | lbt | stupid bug in xargs |
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| 21:21.08 | lcuk | ahhh yeah i heard you mentioning |
| 21:21.09 | lbt | and qt-dev tries to setup scratchbox... |
| 21:21.17 | lcuk | something about 48.9k vs 50k or something |
| 21:21.21 | lbt | stupid stupid stupid bug |
| 21:21.28 | lbt | yeah args_max |
| 21:21.35 | lbt | max chars on a command line |
| 21:21.38 | lcuk | off by 1? |
| 21:21.41 | GeneralAntilles | http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/06/2050216 |
| 21:21.42 | GeneralAntilles | Hum |
| 21:21.43 | lcuk | heh |
| 21:21.55 | lbt | off by 230945 |
| 21:21.58 | johnx | GeneralAntilles, depends on how you harp on them. :P |
| 21:22.18 | lcuk | is that arm specific thou? |
| 21:22.23 | lcuk | or something generally |
| 21:22.34 | lcuk | in the config |
| 21:23.04 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, anytime somebody mentions day-to-day usable. ;) |
| 21:23.08 | lbt | xargs/qemu I think |
| 21:23.17 | lbt | maybe sysconf is to blame? |
| 21:23.23 | johnx | GeneralAntilles, everyone has their own metric :P |
| 21:23.33 | lcuk | dunno, dun care - you solved it :D |
| 21:23.36 | lcuk | which is a win |
| 21:23.37 | GeneralAntilles | Anybody have a better history on that issue? Sounds like a pretty intense metric. |
| 21:23.47 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, mine is the shitty xserver at the moment. ;) |
| 21:23.58 | GeneralAntilles | Once that's fixed, it'll be the finger keyboard |
| 21:24.25 | johnx | GeneralAntilles, finger keyboard should come as soon as Nokia gives us source (or is that source out already?) |
| 21:24.42 | GeneralAntilles | Dunno if it was included in the beta |
| 21:24.54 | lbt | virtual keyb you mean? |
| 21:25.16 | johnx | yeah, the software "finger" keyboard (as opposed to the software "stylus" keyboard) |
| 21:25.43 | lcuk | do you have one with extra extra big keys? :$ |
| 21:25.44 | GeneralAntilles | Finger keyboard is what I mean |
| 21:25.44 | lbt | is ignorant |
| 21:25.56 | GeneralAntilles | The virtual keyboard is the half-screen stylus keyboard |
| 21:26.04 | GeneralAntilles | The finger keyboard is the fullscreen keyboard |
| 21:26.19 | GeneralAntilles | The hardware keyboard is the hardware keyboard |
| 21:26.26 | johnx | though even in Nokia they don't seem to be entirely consistent in naming |
| 21:26.40 | GeneralAntilles | Which is why we have to be. ;) |
| 21:27.06 | lcuk | how are bluetooth keystroked registered - ie from bluemaemo to another nokia device? |
| 21:27.33 | GeneralAntilles | Bluemaemo is a serial keyboard |
| 21:27.40 | GeneralAntilles | Most are HID |
| 21:28.42 | lcuk | just another definition |
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| 21:38.43 | penguinbait | lcuk, I loaded liqbase after watching the video, is that version available somewhere? Is this your next version? |
| 21:39.08 | lcuk | yeah, its the one im working on right now |
| 21:39.17 | penguinbait | I love the drawing program, I used it in a meeting to design some virtual servers today, it was cool |
| 21:39.52 | lcuk | me too :) |
| 21:40.00 | lcuk | i just like drawing over everything |
| 21:40.50 | penguinbait | what new functionality is coming in new version? |
| 21:41.20 | penguinbait | and when do you anticipate it will be done? |
| 21:41.22 | lcuk | hopefully quite a bit |
| 21:42.27 | lcuk | i just noticed its not a priv server anymore |
| 21:42.27 | lcuk | keesj has posted a git clone of it |
| 21:43.20 | penguinbait | lcuk, you said your using gcc on tablet, do you also have autoconf and make? |
| 21:43.47 | lcuk | no autoconf not dpkg-buildpackage |
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| 21:55.20 | VDVsx | lcuk, bluemaemo use the bluetooth hid profile |
| 21:57.13 | lcuk | yeah VDVsx i meant how does the other end distinguish input as differently to virtual/finger/hardware keys |
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| 22:00.30 | VDVsx | lcuk, is like a usb keyboard, the bluetooth link send the commands to the kernel and the kernel redirect them to the normal usb-hid control :P |
| 22:00.38 | lcuk | i know.. |
| 22:00.55 | VDVsx | so should be seen as hardware keystrokes |
| 22:01.05 | lcuk | that wasnt what i was getting at - basically gan mentioned 3 ways to get key input in, bluemaemo is a 4th |
| 22:01.12 | lcuk | yeah |
| 22:01.54 | VDVsx | virtual input = finger input |
| 22:03.37 | johnx | and from an app point of view, bluetooth keyboard, usb keyboard and input from another device running blue maemo should be pretty much indistinguishable |
| 22:04.10 | VDVsx | lcuk, i.e I only see two input ways in the app, virtual keyboard (finger, stylues) or hardware keyboard (usb, bluetooth, device buttons) |
| 22:04.53 | VDVsx | johnx, true |
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| 22:08.10 | lcuk | gnite chaps |
| 22:08.20 | VDVsx | gnite lcuk |
| 22:09.10 | johnx | 'night lcuk |
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| 22:36.38 | penguinbait | QOLE (Quality of Life Enhancements) how appropiate |
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| 22:47.58 | GAN800 | penguinbait, always the classy one, eh? |
| 22:48.55 | *** join/#maemo lardman (n=vircuser@92.26.79.240) |
| 22:49.04 | lardman | evening |
| 22:49.49 | lardman | anyone have handy the link to the online browsable tablet kernel source? |
| 22:50.15 | luke-jr | lardman: Diablo or latest OMAP Linux? |
| 22:50.22 | lardman | ah found it: http://mxr.maemo.org/ |
| 22:50.30 | lardman | thanks though |
| 22:51.40 | *** join/#maemo GeneralAntilles (n=GAN800@2416422hfc34.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 22:59.45 | lardman | I just got a useful reply back from Startech.com (usb2vga people), which is nice |
| 23:00.13 | GAN800 | Just buy it. :P |
| 23:00.22 | lardman | I dunno which one though! |
| 23:00.49 | lardman | I'm tempted by the 4-in-1 now as it has built in power, better than fiddling with powered hubs etc |
| 23:01.06 | GAN800 | Sis-based? |
| 23:01.28 | lardman | no idea, but a chap on itt has got it recognised by that driver so one assumes so |
| 23:02.19 | lardman | shame these companies don't publish a bit more info on the chipsets, even the usb ids would be better than nothing |
| 23:03.01 | lardman | goes to put the recycling out |
| 23:03.19 | *** join/#maemo KurtKraut (n=ktk@unaffiliated/kurtkraut) |
| 23:04.26 | GAN800 | lardman's ultra-modern home doesn't generate any trash? |
| 23:05.52 | GAN800 | ohshit! There it is, reductio ad Hitlerum http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=285045&postcount=149 |
| 23:08.47 | lardman | GAN800: so much trash I have to split it into recycling and non, otherwise I can't get it all out in one go ;) |
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| 23:10.41 | lardman | nothing wrong with saluting victory.... |
| 23:10.50 | GAN800 | lol |
| 23:11.09 | johnx | 'later all. off to SoCal for a couple days :D woo! |
| 23:11.13 | GAN800 | Have fun |
| 23:11.16 | lardman | +1 |
| 23:12.11 | lardman | fyi this is what I was talking about: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=282019&postcount=49 |
| 23:13.13 | johnx | lardman, cool beans :) |
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| 23:21.12 | [A2K] | why i can not install python2.5-qt4? |
| 23:21.38 | [A2K] | http://dumpz.org/8334/ |
| 23:21.47 | [A2K] | from extras-devel |
| 23:21.54 | *** join/#maemo MiskaX (n=jussi@rankki.sonarnerd.net) |
| 23:22.24 | [A2K] | looks like python2.5-qt4-core is version 4.4.3-maemo9, but all other qt4 packages require -maemo7 |
| 23:22.40 | [A2K] | where to get python2.5-qt4-core_4.4.3-maemo7_armel.deb ? |
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| 23:24.28 | GAN800 | Strict dependencies? |
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| 23:41.20 | penguinbait | GAN800, did I do something? |
| 23:41.40 | GAN800 | The personal attacks are nice. |
| 23:42.05 | penguinbait | on who? |
| 23:42.11 | GAN800 | Me |
| 23:42.25 | penguinbait | huh? |
| 23:42.33 | penguinbait | how did I attack you? |
| 23:42.45 | penguinbait | If you would ave said GA, ok, I take that one |
| 23:43.06 | GAN800 | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:43.26 | GAN800 | At least I manage to avoid personal attacks when discussing things with people |
| 23:43.30 | zakkm | whats wrong with GA? |
| 23:43.36 | xnt14 | ? |
| 23:43.36 | lardman | night all |
| 23:43.40 | GAN800 | and you think the council is creating a divide. . . . |
| 23:43.42 | xnt14 | lardman: night |
| 23:43.45 | penguinbait | haha |
| 23:44.07 | penguinbait | you want to replay the IRC logs from yesterday |
| 23:44.20 | penguinbait | I liked the troll GA |
| 23:44.36 | penguinbait | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=285042&postcount=16 |
| 23:45.13 | xnt14 | pb: wtf? |
| 23:45.14 | penguinbait | I think that the council is creating a divide? |
| 23:45.47 | penguinbait | I think that the council is divided, when you are attaking qole |
| 23:46.00 | penguinbait | on public forums |
| 23:46.06 | GAN800 | There was no attack |
| 23:46.49 | GAN800 | I was calling him out for denigrating a maemo.org staff member for no purpose. |
| 23:47.37 | penguinbait | if you think so |
| 23:47.52 | GAN800 | Re-read my post. |
| 23:47.53 | penguinbait | I think you were denigrating him for no purpose |
| 23:48.12 | Knirch | you called him out since he pointed out you saying bugzilla is not a suuport tool... .. what? |
| 23:48.13 | GAN800 | Then you need to read the bug |
| 23:48.33 | GAN800 | Knirch, nah, earlier, the smoking comment response. |
| 23:48.35 | Knirch | s/tool/system/ |
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| 23:48.38 | penguinbait | One of the responsibilities of being a council member is to not encourage discord when it's neither merited nor deserved |
| 23:49.02 | GAN800 | penguinbait, do you think his comment towards X-Fade was justified? |
| 23:49.05 | penguinbait | I guess I can see how you think this is appropiate comment to make to another council member |
| 23:51.08 | GAN800 | Yes/no? |
| 23:51.18 | GAN800 | Was that justified or not? |
| 23:53.08 | penguinbait | I guess send me the post I dont know I don't see it |
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| 23:54.17 | GeneralAntilles | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=284901 |
| 23:54.28 | GeneralAntilles | Post #32 |
| 23:54.39 | GeneralAntilles | Which has since been edited. |
| 23:55.08 | GeneralAntilles | The removed text is available in post #34 |
| 23:55.17 | GeneralAntilles | penguinbait, this is the root of my beef with qole. |
| 23:55.51 | GeneralAntilles | I could see how you might think that it was an unjustified "attack" on my part if you didn't realize what the root of the discussion was. |
| 23:55.53 | Knirch | I don't get it |
| 23:56.34 | GeneralAntilles | Knirch, qole essentially accused X-Fade of being hostile to bug reporters. |
| 23:57.07 | GeneralAntilles | See this bug for the "hostility" https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4417 |
| 23:57.50 | GeneralAntilles | jandmdickerson's post turned out to be a joke, but qole reacted as if there was actual hostility. http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=284787&postcount=31 |
| 23:58.00 | penguinbait | Well its hard to comment on any of this as I do not see X-fades remarks, only in your post |
| 23:58.20 | GeneralAntilles | penguinbait, please see his comment on bug #4417 which is linked above. |
| 23:58.31 | GeneralAntilles | There is no hostility |
| 23:58.37 | GeneralAntilles | Which is why I took issue with qole's post. |
