IRC log for #maemo on 20090412

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01:37.49pupniko/ prost
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02:04.12zakkmwhy cant i insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/current/ext2.ko <-- when it exists?
02:04.29zakkmit says unknown symbol in module (-1): no such file or diretory
02:04.33GAN800pfhbl
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02:08.57t3chb0t.
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02:15.07pupnikzakkm: happens to me when the module does not match the kernel version
02:15.54zakkmits a newly flashed install?
02:15.57zakkmodd
02:16.21zakkmtrying to get my OS2007 to clone to sd, but it doesnt like me ;p
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02:21.46pupnikzakkm: wasn't there something you needed to do first before that insmod?
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02:21.46pupniki forgot the howto
02:21.46zakkmhttp://examplified.net/guide/Nokia_770/Booting_from_MMC/
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02:22.02zakkmpupnik: i did number 1 to 10
02:22.12pupnik:(
02:22.29zakkm?
02:22.51pupniki haven't done that in 14 months or so
02:22.56zakkmme neither
02:22.57pupnikor no - something like that
02:23.19zakkmhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8631 , thinking of just trying this one again, see if it will work this time
02:23.54zakkmhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card <--- ****
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02:25.15GeneralAntillesDon't expect things on OS2007 to work.
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02:25.26zakkmits a old guide though
02:25.32zakkmlike old method
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02:25.56zakkmim not trying the new mer/fanoush bootmenu, on OS2007 for instance
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03:34.12b-mantrys to boot Darwin on his N800 using qemu
03:35.28b-man(MacOS X base)
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03:43.19luke-jrb-man: sick :p
03:45.32zakkmlol
03:45.50zakkmif you get aqua working, id be impressed :P
03:47.42GeneralAntillesAqua is closed source.
03:47.59GeneralAntillesand Darwin isn't close enough to OS X for that to be feasible.
03:48.01zakkmthat just means he cant release it
03:48.15zakkmif hes running in qemu, he can use mac disc iso?"
03:48.29GeneralAntillesNot enough RAM
03:48.42zakkmi didnt mean usable
03:49.22GeneralAntillesNo, seriously, not enough RAM to boot.
03:49.41zakkmoh
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04:56.29pupnikhttp://www.pvv.org/~shane/stasj/pics/humor/4621.html  Finland kicks butt.
05:17.42zakkm:)
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06:01.38thuxmorning
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07:14.23ShasieHi all
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08:22.04RST38h"We hacked internally Clutter to work in N810 but due legal reasons we were unable to release needed OpenGL-ES drivers for N810."
08:24.12lbt:(
08:24.25RST38hLovely, isn't it?
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08:24.50GeneralAntillesThey're working on it.
08:25.04GeneralAntillesThe legal reasons are outlined on the driver justification talk page.
08:25.07lbtfor 810?
08:25.13RST38hNobody is working on N810 any more.
08:25.22GeneralAntilleslbt, for OMAP2
08:25.33RST38hGAN: Ah, so there is still hope? =)
08:25.45GeneralAntillesRST38h, yeah, qgil made it public a few weeks ago on itT.
08:25.47lbthas to go and lookup OMAP
08:25.53GeneralAntillesFor shame, lbt.
08:26.07GeneralAntillesI fixed up the OMAP wiki page recently, though, so you should be good to go. :P
08:26.09lbtmutters about UML2
08:28.15lbtcan't find an omap wiki page...
08:28.40Pavlovthen you aren't trying very hard
08:29.00lbthttps://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Search?search=omap&go=Go
08:29.02Pavlovfirst hit for "omap wiki" on google is something useful
08:29.32lbtah, GeneralAntilles meant the OMAP wikipedia page.... he's usually very precise
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08:29.58GeneralAntillesb.m.o, lbt. :P
08:30.20lbtMR maemo.org, not Maemo.org .... <sigh>    so fuzzy....
08:30.32lbtducks
08:30.33Pavlovb.m.o is so confusing
08:30.54lbtyeah "bite me" has no "o"
08:31.29lbtlooks for the bmo wiki*pedia* page
08:31.29Pavlovmm, i was thinking of some other reasons
08:31.58GeneralAntillesbugs.maemo.org bugs.mozilla.org
08:32.07Pavlovbugzilla.mozilla.org, but yeah
08:32.09GeneralAntillesI usually just call it bugzilla for more ambiguity and confusion. ;)
08:32.14GeneralAntilleser, right
08:32.19GeneralAntillesdoesn't go there very often. :P
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08:42.45Stskeepsso any news from maemoland since i was offline for 5 hours? :P
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08:43.34GeneralAntillesYeah, we decided on a new uniform for Stskeeps.
08:44.03Stskeepsoh boy.
08:44.05Stskeepslatex?
08:44.05Stskeeps:P
08:44.11GeneralAntillesYou'll find out at the Summit. :P
08:44.15Stskeepshehe
08:45.06Stskeepsdamn.. september will be a busy month
08:45.18Stskeepsmoving to poland, probable thesis exam, summit..
08:45.58RST38hGeneral: Given that he is moving to Poland, I have got an idea
08:46.14Stskeepsbringing vodka to summit? :P
08:46.26RST38hNo, no...
08:46.58RST38hhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_sign (see Polish Police chevron)
08:47.44RST38hOf course, the whole uniform should be black, with thin silvery stripes everywhere, but Darth Vader helmet is optional
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08:52.51reisiooooh, neat
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09:05.02aquatixgood moaning
09:06.13RST38hmoo aquatix
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10:40.08lbtThis is an interesting LWN article on vendors and Linux       http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/327878/722b0fef064e1779/   preaching to the converted but some succint comments and arguments in there
10:41.57wazdHello maemo
10:42.09Stskeepslbt: mm, mtc might find it interesting
10:42.49lbtnods
10:43.04lbtcan you send me that config.log? or too hard?
10:43.51Stskeepsonly by re-creating the build, which i can
10:44.01Stskeepshttp://trac.tspre.orgÆ:8000 otherwise
10:44.05Stskeepshttp://trac.tspre.orgÆ:8000 otherwise
10:44.06Stskeeps..
10:44.12Stskeepshttp://trac.tspre.ororgÃ:8000 otherwise
10:44.16Stskeepswtf is with my terminal
10:44.18Stskeepsbloody ubuntu.
10:44.27Stskeepstrac . tspre .org port 8000 :P
10:44.27lbtheh
10:45.19GeneralAntillesIf Linux ever wants to succeed on the desktop, it needs a DE that doesn't totally suck.
10:45.21Stskeepsthis close to just installing mer on it
10:46.08lbtnah - need the internal detail of config.log.... nevermind
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10:46.16Stskeepsi'll push a build so you can get one, lbt
10:46.43lbt'k I'd just like to unblock glib...
10:48.00Stskeepsmonitor trac.tspre.org builder for a glib log i guess
10:48.06Stskeepsi started it with accelerated gcc
10:49.18lbtwhere is the build happening ? on trac.tspre.org ?
10:49.30lbtor your local vm
10:49.46Stskeepsa mer vmdk inside a machine at my work
10:49.54Stskeepsusing qemu-not-7007
10:50.15Stskeepsbuild might be slow though cos of the bloody flowstops problem
10:50.58lbtI need the config.log from running ./configure    - yes? Which is only in the filesystem on that machine AFAIK
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10:52.38Stskeepsi'll have one for you soon
10:52.57lbtOK - ta
10:53.23lbtwasn't sure if you meant me to monitor a dir somewhere :) NP though
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11:36.36qwerty12_N800ello lcuk
11:40.27lcukhiya qwerty12_N800 \o
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11:53.23aquatixhahaha: http://failblog.org/2009/04/01/product-fail/
11:54.51RST38hIt's bacon!
11:55.33RST38hIt is April 1st post though
11:56.26RST38hThis one is way better though: http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/fail-owned-headline-fail.jpg?w=500&h=282
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12:11.50lopzhola
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12:17.13wazdhttp://s54.radikal.ru/i144/0904/a3/ba07f472fc19.jpg <- Mer
12:17.22wazdMer's stylus kb :)
12:18.14lbthow well does it work when you rotate the screen
12:18.40wazdlbt: well, that's special mode for portrait input
12:19.08wazdlbt: it will have another layout for landscape
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12:19.32lbtjust mentioning it as the maemo one is a bit poor
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12:40.36wazdlbt: hmm, why so?
12:41.14aquatixwazd: wow, that statusbar looks great
12:41.28aquatixafk again :)
12:41.29aquatixciao
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15:42.00b-mani managed to get FreeBSD and FreeDOS booted in Mer with qemu on my tablet :D
15:42.02b-manhttp://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/mer/screenshots/screenshot01.png
15:42.21b-manhttp://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/mer/screenshots/screenshot00.png
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15:43.31Stskeepscrazy :P
15:43.39b-manXD
15:44.24b-manalso was successful with NITdroid emmulation with omap2 support
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15:45.04b-mani could literary run Mer in Mer XD
15:45.22Stskeepsyeah, but that's just vaguely insane :P
15:45.34Stskeepsgood to know it works though
15:45.44b-manXD
15:46.17b-manadmits that he can be a bit crazy XD
15:47.41b-mani'm just too curious for my own good ;)
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16:45.24lakinAre there any good resources for how to setup the SDL main screen and blit to it for optimal performance with the n810?
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16:48.52lakinhttp://maemo.org/community/wiki/gamedevelopment/ redirects to the main wiki page. :/
16:50.11lakinhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Game_development works tho
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17:04.20GeneralAntillesUI discussions are so much fun.
17:04.34lcukwhere at this time gan
17:04.48GeneralAntillesitT, as usual.
17:05.17lcukheh
17:05.33lcuki made a toolbar seedling :) -> http://liqbase.net/liq.20090412_170810.lib.scr.png
17:05.40GeneralAntillesThey always come down to everybody's got an opinion (just like assholes) and 10 other assumptions about how they think other people do or should use their devices.
17:05.54GeneralAntillesI don't get what the end-of-the-world fuss is over the stylus.
17:06.15lcukyou are talking to the wrong person
17:06.19GeneralAntillesIt's as if they think Nokia's going to magically disallow their silly desktop ports.
17:06.36Stskeepswill be happy as long as he can run Mer on it.
17:06.40GeneralAntillesIf the stylus really were going away, they wouldn't be using a resistive panel. ;)
17:06.57lcukthey havent got a defined stylus on the 97 have they
17:07.02lcukits a plectrum
17:07.39glass5800 has a stylus. also ships with a plek
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17:08.32lcukive only seen the plectrum (nice as it is) its not quite the same for writing with
17:08.59glassthe stylus is embedded in the back, slides out(on 5800)
17:09.05GeneralAntillesReally, we just need a stupid product announcement so these people will STFU and go on to bitching about concrete things.
17:09.13lbtreaches into the air, grabs a passing pigeon and plucks a quill to use as a stylus...
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17:09.48GeneralAntillesI like how people keep proposing the context-sensitive UI.
17:09.57GeneralAntillesWhat a train wreck.
17:10.33lcuki 100% agree there gan
17:10.52GeneralAntillesThat's when you know you can throw their opinion out with the rest of the garbage. ;)
17:10.53lcuki have nothing against a touch friendly ui - it works nicely with or without stylus
17:11.18LinuxCodelcuk, you dont ride by bus often do you ?
17:11.22LinuxCode;-p
17:11.34LinuxCodetravel
17:11.37LinuxCode-ride
17:11.45lcukLinuxCode, what does that matter - i did more notes on the plane than at any other time
17:11.55LinuxCodeplane = smooth
17:12.00LinuxCodebus = bumpy
17:12.03GeneralAntillesI wonder how these people manage to use their devices with a stylus while walking around.
17:12.09LinuxCodeGeneralAntilles, haha
17:12.16LinuxCodeeither way, any of this is pointless
17:12.21LinuxCodenobody here makes the decisions
17:12.23mavhcwho uses a device whilst walking?
17:12.34LinuxCodemavhc, me ?
17:12.37GeneralAntillesmavhc, me, but not with a stylus.
17:13.06mavhcmore hardware buttons is better, so I can pause/jump back 10 seconds etc my audio files without having to unlock, use the touchscreen, lock
17:13.40LinuxCodeall I know is, on the bus the stylus is useful
17:13.47glassGeneralAntilles: 5800 is quite usable with fingers only
17:13.51LinuxCodeotherwise it doesnt really matter too much
17:13.56VDVsxI use my phone when I'm riding my bike :)
17:14.00glassi use it in the bus for reading stuff
17:14.00GeneralAntillesglass, as is my N800.
17:14.21LinuxCodeI hope the follow on model will still have a keybaord
17:14.34LinuxCodeand I hope this time it will have the pipe symbol readily available
17:14.35glassalso the touchscreen reacts even if you have gloves on, which is handy if it's subzero outside..
17:14.37lcukmedia player == touch friendly == good whilst walking
17:14.52lcuktaking notes == not something you do whilst walking, but usually you use a pen
17:14.56LinuxCodethat was my only beef with the n810
17:15.07LinuxCodehad to dump a pipe symbol into the ui
17:15.27mavhcnone of the media players are that touch friendly, they all use most of the screen for pointless cover art, and then put the pause button right next to the skip track button, and have no rewind 10 seconds button
17:16.12VDVsxglass, if the 5800 had a proper kinetic scroll will be 100 % usable only with finger's, IMO
17:16.51LinuxCode5800 use mameo ?
17:17.01VDVsxs60
17:17.11LinuxCodeerrm so ehhh
17:17.13mavhcI generally use canola, at least it has the buttons near the edge of the screen that comes first out of the case
17:17.14LinuxCodenvm
17:17.42LinuxCodeI was under the impression we were talking about the next N8xx version
17:17.56GeneralAntillesmavhc, powerlaunch for hardware control.
17:18.20LinuxCodeI just hope it will be out soon, I need a mobile replacement
17:18.25LinuxCodemine doesnt cut it anymore
17:18.41mavhcI did try to use my phone as a bluetooth keyboard to control it, but it didn't work as the keys were locked, any way around that?
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17:19.24glassVDVsx: the browser part sucks a bit, i hope they get it better
17:20.41GeneralAntillesmavhc, powerlaunch lets you use the hardware keys for input while locked.
17:21.02VDVsxglass, well at least is better than the n8x0 browser in terms of crashes and flash support, but I only use it a bit :)
17:21.02mavhcI'll have a look, thanks
17:22.09VDVsxglass, I only have complains about the finger scrolling in the main menus, but I don't use the phone as my primary phone :P
17:28.03LinuxCodespeaking of flash
17:28.16LinuxCodewhy havent we seen an update for the browser or flash ?
17:28.30LinuxCodebbc makes my thing slow down and then complain
17:28.37Stskeepscos noone cares about diablo anymore? :P
17:29.42LinuxCodethe official flah image is still diablo though isnt it ?
17:32.20GeneralAntillesAccording to Mara, they all left Diablo land to work on Fremantle then "forgot the keys" so they can't get back in.
17:32.32GeneralAntillesMore Nokia retardation, business as usual.
17:32.52GeneralAntillesRanting gets you nowhere, being reasonable gets you nowhere, better to look to the future and move on.
17:32.57LinuxCodeGeneralAntilles, Fremantle is stable-ish ?
17:33.04GeneralAntillesNot even close
17:33.12LinuxCodei stick to diablo then
17:33.12GeneralAntillesStill in alpha
17:33.13LinuxCode;-}
17:33.15LinuxCodekk
17:33.27GeneralAntillessighs.
17:33.50LinuxCodewhy sigh ? hehe
17:33.59LinuxCodeyou want me to try fremantle ?
17:34.02LinuxCode;-}
17:34.06GeneralAntillesBecause I'm tired of Nokia's nonsense.
17:34.09LinuxCodeahh ok
17:34.22LinuxCodeohh btw guys, any of you use gpesynd ?
17:35.00LinuxCodeweirdly I get an error with the calendar in msynctool
17:35.16GeneralAntillesI'm wondering who I need to stab repeatedly to get any sort of useful communication on this https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3845
17:36.19StskeepsGeneralAntilles: bribing whoever runs the update repositories
17:36.51LinuxCodeGeneralAntilles, sounds like a lot of disorganization
17:37.00LinuxCodeat least the thread reads that way
17:37.02LinuxCode;-|
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17:37.43GeneralAntillescooks up an idea for a new blog post series.
17:38.08Stskeeps"Community and vendor interaction"? :P
17:38.28lcukGeneralAntilles, this change requires all people coordinate and make the changes together.  what happens if people just start pushing packages using the new categories? does it break?
17:38.34GeneralAntilles"How Nokia Fucked the Community"
17:38.36LinuxCodemaybe its time to fork an off-spring of maemo
17:38.40GeneralAntillesIt'll have daily updates.
17:38.49LinuxCodeGeneralAntilles, haha
17:38.51GeneralAntilleslcuk, Nokia looks bad.
17:39.18lcuknot really, advertise the new categories, get package maintainers themselves to use them and THEN nokia looks bad
17:39.25lcukbut at the moment, changing them does nothing for nobody
17:39.36GeneralAntillesI was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and not offload that ugly customer experience onto Nokia
17:39.43GeneralAntillesBut it looks like that wasn't the correct choice
17:39.47GeneralAntillesYes, really.
17:40.07GeneralAntillesWhat does a customer think when they see a bunch of ugly unlocalized categories in the application manager?
17:40.08lcukwhat wasnt? a list of names that ALL package maintainers must follow
17:40.12lcukthis is entire community change
17:40.12GeneralAntillesThey sure aint blaming developers.
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17:40.33lcukthey click all like everyone else
17:40.38GeneralAntillesNot telling package developers to make the change before Nokia shipped the necessary updates.
17:40.43lcuki never know what category is what and never will do
17:41.08GeneralAntilleslcuk, experienced people, perhaps, but the vast majority of average tablet users, no.
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17:41.29GeneralAntillesWhere's jeremiah when you need him?
17:41.49lcukso - lets suppose nokia changed them - do existing packages fall into them, OR, do things end up in the general catchall?
17:42.01lcukbecause the packages themselves dont match
17:42.25sampohello... is there some fix for slow fremanlte UI on xephyr with intel driver?
17:42.27GeneralAntilleslcuk, you really didn't pay much attention while this was decided, eh?
17:42.42GeneralAntillesNon-valid categories get tossed into "Other"
17:42.57GeneralAntillesValid categories get pretty, localized strings.
17:43.02lcukso - will most current packages end up in all?
17:43.11lcuk"other" sorry
17:43.37GeneralAntillesYes, because I was telling developers to stick with the current valid list until Nokia updated h-a-m.
17:43.49lcukfacepalm
17:44.06qwerty12hasn't been sticking with the current list
17:44.08lcukso bitching at nokia to change something which at the moment will make things worse is good?
17:44.25GeneralAntilleslcuk, oh, another silly lcuk discussion.
17:44.29GeneralAntillesis totally not in the mood.
17:44.48GeneralAntillesIt's a chicken and the egg problem.
17:44.52GeneralAntillesSomething has to change.
17:45.06GeneralAntillesI'd like to avoid doubling the number of useless categories in the mean time, though.
17:45.07lcukno its not - put bugs against packages in the wrong places
17:45.12lcukfor all packages
17:46.05GeneralAntillesThen people slowly update it and the category list gets 10 times less useful in the mean time.
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17:46.11GeneralAntilleslcuk, don't be silly.
17:46.12GeneralAntillesPlease.
17:46.25lcukno, then we have ammunition to push nokia to change their end
17:46.35lcukat the moment, it will make it worse
17:46.50GeneralAntillessighs.
17:47.21GeneralAntillesI didn't think we needed that ammunition.
17:47.23lcuksampo, ive not found a fix for it
17:47.27GeneralAntillesBecause I figured on Nokia being reasonable.
17:47.50lcuki thought the packaging list changes were to be pushed to package builders themselves
17:47.51GeneralAntillesUnfortunately that's not the case, so now you're suggesting I do what I just said I was going to do 5 minutes ago? :P
17:48.03sampolcuk: so with intel driver it is basically impossible to test anything on emulator ?
17:48.18GeneralAntillesIt's a client-side change.
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17:50.43GeneralAntillesSomebody want to go poke _marcell_ to update r.m.o?
17:50.52lcuksampo, ymmv, ive seen it running at fullspeed on different hardware
17:53.14sampoi have nvidia on my desktop but my laptop has intel gma4500
17:53.28lcukGeneralAntilles, what if there was a way to automatically fixup the packages in extras to account for the changes.  some sort of intermediate list to expidite a transition?  essentially a "packagename,category" list which would be looked up in place of the category in the package itself
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17:54.04GeneralAntillesThen we'd have to replace the maintainer lines on all those packages with autobuilder@maemo.org
17:54.13lcuki do want your changes to go through, but i cannot see it being a benefit at the start
17:54.18GeneralAntillesIt's generally considered bad form to play with other people's packages.
17:54.26lcukhow about we kept this outside the packages themselves
17:54.28lcukjust a small db
17:54.30GeneralAntillesIt'll be an immediate benefit
17:54.40GeneralAntillesBecause the category list wont like like hell.
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17:54.53lcuksure it will get out of sync quickly, but it will catch all the stale packages
17:54.59GeneralAntillesHow can it be outside the package?
17:55.05GeneralAntillesThen you're back to a h-a-m hack.
17:55.40lcukyou need to hack h-a-m anyway dont you
17:56.00GeneralAntillesThat's the point though
17:56.08GeneralAntillesThere's no hacking h-a-m unless Nokia ships the hacks.
17:56.16GeneralAntillesSo whatever we do, we're stuck waiting for Nokia.
17:56.43lcukbut the change suggested so far does no good short term
17:56.50GeneralAntillesAny transitional stuff is pointless and likely to be more harmful in the longterm than it is beneficial in the short.
17:56.57GeneralAntillesHardly
17:57.14GeneralAntillesThe h-a-m patches immediately cleans up the category list.
17:57.25GeneralAntillesand encourages maintainers to get their packages out of Other.
17:57.56Stskeepsand we can't ship an overriding h-a-m through extras can we?
17:57.59lcukagreed on motivation
17:58.20lcuko_O thats an idea lol
17:58.23GeneralAntillesStskeeps, not unless you want  to ruin updates for 95% of tablet users out there.
17:58.27GeneralAntillesNo, it's not.
17:58.40GeneralAntillesWe can't ship updates to bundled stuff without breaking the whole bundle.
18:00.06Stskeepstrue
18:00.18lcukwe could rename it p-o-r-k :D
18:00.41lcuktechnically, theres nothing stopping an alternative package manager gaining traction
18:00.55lcukjust like in other distros a new one emerges which solves the problems of the existing one
18:01.47GeneralAntillesExcept that that would be evil
18:01.51GeneralAntillesand user-hostile
18:01.54lcukof course it wouldnt
18:03.13GeneralAntillesYou're not going to get all users to switch managers
18:03.13GeneralAntillesso you're back to square one again with the categories.
18:03.14GeneralAntillesmutters about Tear not being in Extras.
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18:09.32GeneralAntillesNot so impressed with the current release after all the hype.
18:10.00StskeepsGeneralAntilles: you're aware that the categories are in fact, in the fremantle HAM though?
18:10.13GeneralAntillesStskeeps, yes, which is almost worse.
18:10.26GeneralAntillesSince maintainers now have to ship two separate sets if they want localized categories in both.
18:10.33Stskeepsah
18:11.18GeneralAntillesTear lies about about:blank
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18:12.09lcukwhat do the categories on maemo.org do in different countries?
18:12.18lcukhttp://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/
18:12.26lcukare they shown in same way for everyone?
18:12.36GeneralAntillesmaemo.org is not localized.
18:12.54lcukbut people have categorised their apps - seperate from the package
18:13.08GeneralAntillesSo?
18:13.08lcukand somewhere on the maemo.org server is a list of packagename and category?
18:13.25GeneralAntillesNo.
18:13.28lcukyes
18:13.30GeneralAntillesYou'd have to patch apt.
18:13.33lcukits in the database
18:13.45GeneralAntillesThis proposal isn't any different from the one you made 20 minutes ago.
18:13.50lcukbut i wouldnt have to patch 9000 individual packages
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18:14.08GeneralAntillesYou don't have to patch other people's packages.
18:14.11lcukno, im following through on that proposal and thinking about the issues ;)
18:14.31GeneralAntilleslcuk, this has been thought about and discussed quite a lot.
18:14.42lcukand so far i can see a way to automatically categorize all listed packages in maemo in the correct way
18:14.44lcukcan you?
18:14.47GeneralAntillesI know you weren't there for it, but we've already been through all of these ideas. :)
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18:16.00qwerty12_N800the real problem is nokia sitting on their asses wrt diablo
18:16.45qwerty12_N800suggestions are nice, but if they aren't gonna get up, what can we do?
18:17.06lcukmake sure mer is right :)
18:17.46lcukmer is about reconstructing maemo in the way the community expects.
18:20.59zakkmwooh :)
18:21.02RST38hnothing we can do
18:21.29RST38hnot until becomes a fully functional replacement
18:23.11zakkmthinks most users still runs the default stuff + some stuff in extras
18:23.31lcuki wouldv thought nokia wouldnt be so dumb as to ignore improvments made in mer - if they are compatible with diablo
18:23.37RST38hs//mer
18:23.38zakkmwhen i bought my nokia n800, the guy didnt reflash it, and he still had OS2007
18:23.45lcukso if its shown to work there ..
18:23.54RST38hlcuk: you misunderstand
18:23.55zakkmeven though diablo was at like 36-_
18:24.13RST38hlcuk: Nokia does not care about improvements to software by third parties
18:24.23ShadowJK_I bought my N800 second hand a few weeks ago, the guy had said it was flashed to latest OS. I found it had chinook :)
18:24.36RST38hlcuk: In fact, it does not even care about its own software, as long as the hardware running it no longer sells
18:25.10RST38hlcuk: The above statements are pretty much axioms from which you can deduce a lots of Nokia behavior
18:25.28lcukit was (principally) nokia engineers who put together the HE of the upgrades
18:25.39RST38hengineers != nokia
18:26.01RST38hA few guys may help out the users a bit, if it is ot too much time and their manager agrees
18:26.07lcukshow those same people tangible benefits which work on this device and the same should occur
18:26.11zakkmShadowJK_: curious, how much did you pay?
18:26.43lcukuptil now the mod that sparked this debate would be mostly futile
18:27.12ShadowJK_zakkm, iirc 90€ (shipping included)
18:27.18RST38hlcuk: They are all working on Fremantle according to management (qgil)
18:27.54lcukyes, and so they should - thats their job
18:27.55zakkmShadowJK_: heh i paid the exact same, but the guy came to where i work
18:28.04RST38hexactly
18:28.23lcukright now theres no benefit to diving back into code
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18:28.43qwerty12_N800ello johnx
18:28.52mavhcGeneralAntilles: how do I get it out of pocket mode?
18:29.04Stskeeps'lo johnx
18:29.09GeneralAntillesmavhc, don't remember.
18:29.17GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800 might be able to help, though.
18:29.20johnxallo all
18:29.35johnxgot my zaurus working again :D
18:29.54Stskeepswoo :)
18:30.03johnxand have a reasonable x server for it
18:30.04lcukheh hello johnx, took almost a month to get it working!
18:30.26johnxshould probably do some package cleanup then push it :)
18:30.42johnxlcuk: heh. there were some distractions :P
18:30.49GeneralAntillesjohnx, so that's what's been sapping up all of your time, eh? ;)
18:30.51lcukas always, hope all is well
18:31.18qwerty12_N800mahvc, it got messed up somewhere along the versions... i keep mashing buttons until the power menu comes up, press home & hit reload powerlaunch. it's retarded, i know...
18:31.26johnxGeneralAntilles: yeah, the moving was really no big thing (<- horrible lies)
18:31.33Stskeepsjohnx: saw the danish weekend stuff btw?
18:31.52johnxStskeeps: I did. that's at the end of tthis month?
18:31.57Stskeepsjohnx: may
18:32.19johnxaaaah, then I'll call it a firm maybe :)
18:32.31mavhcthanks qwerty12_N800, is there a list of what the default settings are?
18:33.33qwerty12_N800it's a little sparse on docs, i'd just recommend to look at the raw config files in /etc/powerlaunch
18:34.34johnxlcuk: yup. going pretty well. i can take a breath again before jumping back into the fray.
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18:36.31lcukjohnx :) libliqbase is on a git server now
18:36.54lcuklet me know if you wanna have a play
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18:38.13johnxI think I'm good with what I've bitten off so far o_o;
18:38.57Stskeepsjohnx: *nod* basically if you want to see if you can get sponsorship, just follow instructions in http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=278371&postcount=7 - probably better to do sooner than later according to the nokians :P
18:39.05lcukoh i know that feeling
18:40.25GeneralAntillessips and shudders.
18:40.35GeneralAntillesApparently these people don't know the meaning of too much soy.
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18:45.26Stskeepsjohnx: #mer , btw
18:46.30johnxStskeeps: ah, right. on my zaurus here :)
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20:17.12GeneralAntillesX-Fade, ping?
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20:22.35ProteousPING MOFO
20:22.48Proteousate too many chocolate bunnies
20:23.12GeneralAntillesI wonder how close Nokia's getting to the beta
20:23.19GeneralAntillesThey seem to have largely gone quiet.
20:23.30Proteousthat's cause I haxored their gibson
20:23.34Proteousyou know, the big iron
20:23.51ProteousI went around to some low security systems and used the backdoor
20:24.01Proteousso to speak
20:24.31Proteousgot a little help from Joey
20:24.35GeneralAntillesGibson Guitar? What, you set it to play the first 4 bars of Smoke on the Water over and over?
20:24.46Proteoushe has experience with such things
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21:17.40lbtping
21:19.54MakeGhopong
21:26.24lbtlaggy
21:32.18MakeGhoyou forgot to ping, it's 0-1
21:32.29MakeGhopong
21:34.13lbtping
21:34.15lbtping
21:34.19lbtping
21:34.56MakeGhouh-oh, I'm gonna lose. Pong. pong. pong.
21:35.31lbtPING
21:37.13MakeGhoFunny how quiet it's here. I wonder if some evil channel operator will get angry for us playing ping pong here, although there's no conversation here anyway. PONG.
21:38.43GeneralAntillesEeeeviiiiill!
21:38.47*** mode/#maemo [+o GeneralAntilles] by ChanServ
21:39.17*** mode/#maemo [-o GeneralAntilles] by GeneralAntilles
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21:41.03sbx34hi i have a queston about the nokia n800
21:41.12lbtmaemo is dead .... long live Mer
21:41.28sbx34what is the max mem card i can get for it
21:41.35lbtone day when someone buys an N900 the channel will be bright and vibrant again...
21:41.45sbx34lol
21:41.46lbtsbx34: how wealthy are you?
21:42.00lbtI think 8Gb
21:42.03sbx34not very lol
21:42.17sbx34oh right
21:42.35lbtand the N800 can have 2
21:42.44joyrideri've got an 8gig sdhc card in my n810 works without problems ... never tried another card though. (it's even a micro sd with a mini sd adaptor)
21:43.13sbx34but ur not 100%
21:43.31sbx34so could i get 2 x 8gb
21:43.39GeneralAntillessbx34, 2TB
21:44.11lbtGA - I thought 8 Max?
21:44.13ShadowJK_People are using 32gig memory cards with N800
21:44.22lbtcool
21:44.57sbx34really
21:45.00sbx34cool
21:45.12GeneralAntilleslbt, why would you think that?
21:45.42lbtI have seen lots of random limitations around SD/CF etc
21:45.59lbtwhat's the 770 limit?
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21:47.04Stskeepsdepends if you hw mod or not
21:47.29lbtif not?
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21:48.20cbx33hey guys
21:48.34sbx34hi :p
21:48.37cbx33wow been a long time since I been here
21:48.53sbx34lol well i never been here hehe
21:49.35cbx33let's see who do I remember, Jaffa, pupnik_
21:49.43Stskeepsso confusing nicks and numbers.. :P
21:49.50cbx33heh
21:49.58cbx33I've been using this nick for a loooong time
21:50.36cbx33is pupnik_ still porting games?
21:50.37cbx33:)
21:51.21cbx33what's the limit for SD cards on the latest OS again?
21:51.25cbx33on n800
21:51.26cbx33not n810
21:51.52GeneralAntilles2TB
21:52.04cbx33ahh GeneralAntilles I remember you too
21:52.09cbx33I saw a 2Gb limit somewhere
21:52.17cbx33is that now old and out of date?
21:52.33ShadowJK_Even the nokia specs are more optimistic than 2gbyte
21:52.46cbx33really
21:52.50cbx33not the ones i saw
21:53.06Stskeepsuses 2,4gb cards and some use 2x32gb cards :P
21:53.15GeneralAntilles2TB is the limit.
21:53.33cbx33ok
21:53.39cbx33thanks guys
21:53.47cbx33just the info I needed
21:53.48cbx33oh
21:53.54cbx33has anyone managed to get NX ported yet?
21:55.07ShadowJK_GeneralAntilles, I suspect without a software upgrade, it stops working "automatically" with untouched store-bought cards somewhere before 2TB though? :-)
21:55.38GeneralAntillesAs long as you format it to something other than exFAT they'll work just fine.
21:55.43GeneralAntillesNo software upgrade needed.
21:55.53cbx33cool
21:56.01cbx33well I'm running he latest anyway
21:59.01ShadowJK_Nokia specs say 8G for N800 and N810.. I guess that was the biggest card available for testing when they designed the hw
21:59.14GeneralAntillesCertified, but yes.
22:00.44lbtthat could be where I got 8Gb then... I thought I'd seen it somewhere :)
22:02.32cbx33what's the best upnp media player for n800/810
22:02.57cbx33or is there even one?
22:03.39Myrtticanola2?
22:03.50cbx33slimmer?
22:04.17lcukcanola1.7?
22:04.28*** join/#maemo cowbellemoo (n=cowbelle@c-69-143-113-35.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
22:05.48cbx33hahah
22:05.56cbx33I heard canola was a little bloated
22:05.58cbx33am I wrong?
22:07.00lbtdid you get an 8Gb card yet .... if so then "no"
22:07.29cbx33eh?
22:07.46cbx33you'd install it to the card?
22:07.56cbx33or do you mean for media?
22:08.00lbtI installed maemo to the card...
22:08.06cbx33oh
22:08.20lbtN800.... 2 slots
22:08.25cbx33yeh
22:08.25lbtwe rule!
22:08.28cbx33hehe
22:08.35cbx33just sold his n800 to sbx34
22:08.39cbx33has an n810
22:08.44cbx33heh
22:08.48cbx33it still rocks ;)
22:08.50cbx33right
22:08.54cbx33catcha later all
22:08.57lbtpoor N810 owners with tiny 2Gb rootfs
22:09.05cbx33*pah*
22:09.21*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
22:09.22ShadowJK_is still using the nor :)
22:10.10lbtnor?
22:10.45GeneralAntillesNAND
22:10.50GeneralAntillesThere's no NOR in the tablets.
22:10.55ShadowJK_oh :-)
22:11.20ShadowJK_Well the raw flash then :)
22:11.28ShadowJK_not the integrated sd/mmc
22:11.44lbtthe eensy weensy tiny thing
22:12.18lbt^ technical term
22:14.34Pavlovpppp/win 91
22:14.36Pavlovbah
22:22.24*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
22:48.54*** join/#maemo jacques (n=jacques@nslu2-linux/jacques)
22:54.04*** join/#maemo joelmaher (n=joelmahe@67.205.203.107)
23:01.53*** join/#maemo johnx (n=john@c-71-197-211-29.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
23:05.23lcukjohnx, \o so are you both settling in nicely now then
23:08.24pupnik_"It's too bad she won't live!  But then again, who does?"
23:08.34johnxlcuk, something like that. this is kind of just a stopover though
23:08.59lcukahhh ok, is it good being home tho
23:09.06johnxdefinitely
23:09.14lcuk:) thats what counts
23:09.16johnxpretty weird though
23:09.22lcuki bet!
23:09.26lcukhow long were you over there
23:09.33johnx2 years
23:09.42johnxI had visited back home once 1.5 years ago
23:09.59lcukyou will have culture shock lol
23:10.27johnxI'm having time shock too
23:10.42lcukits about 8pm there isnt it
23:10.45johnxcatching up with friends and realizing they got real jobs and bought houses in the interim O_o;
23:10.47*** join/#maemo r2d2rogers (n=r2d2roge@unaffiliated/r2d2rogers)
23:11.03lcukyeah, but you travelled halfway round the world!
23:11.28lcukyou all have some catching up to do
23:11.41johnxyeah, but it still feels weird because some things feel like they haven't changed at all
23:12.05GeneralAntillesWhat? It was only 2 years. :P
23:12.07lcukheh, its similar with us
23:12.18lcukstrangest change recently was my old school building got knocked down
23:12.36johnxGeneralAntilles, yeah, just a short visit really :)
23:13.00johnxlcuk, weird seeing all the computer stores I used to go to closed up or changed into something else
23:13.19lcukyeah - evolution rather than revolution
23:13.30lcuki drive past the computer shop i used to be in awe at
23:13.38lcukits a florists now
23:13.49johnxheh. all that's old is new again :D
23:14.07lcukindeed it is johnx :)
23:14.08johnxturns out selling flowers at brick+mortar stores turned out to be the better business model
23:14.51lcukplastering tv with adverts about [relatives] day helps too ;)
23:15.22johnxthe whole mother's day CPU+RAM combo must not have been a hot seller :>
23:15.47lcuka small bunch of locally grown flowers means more :)
23:16.53lcukhave you decided if you are coming to copenhagen yet?  and have you made your application if you want to
23:17.36johnxI'll decide and apply (or not) by the end of today
23:17.49johnxI still don't know if I'm all that helpful for a lot of this stuff
23:18.16lcuki think every member of the community would asnwer in the same way: of fucking course you are helpful
23:18.23lcuk:)
23:19.22johnxeh, well if you insist. If I don't acccomplish anything up there I'll put it at your feet :>
23:21.27lcukyou arent intended to accomplish anything, ive got the impression its a brainstorming session :)
23:22.46johnxI'll try and borrow a brain to take along then :)
23:25.51lcuk:D wicked
23:26.33johnxlooks around to see who won't miss their's for a bit :>
23:27.15qwerty12_N800don't take lcuk's; you'll only see bacon everywhere :P
23:27.43lcukthere is no bacon in the new liqbase!
23:27.51lcukthe media folder doesnt contain ANY!
23:28.06johnxBYOB?
23:29.11lcukmust be for now
23:29.46johnxcouldn't get the licensing worked out to redistribute the bacon? sad
23:30.12lcuklol ill have to put it back
23:30.14pupnik_heh
23:30.21lcukit would be massive bacon!
23:30.21qwerty12_N800yahoo ads think i need
23:30.38qwerty12_N800bust lift tablets :(
23:30.41lcuk<PROTECTED>
23:31.11johnxqwerty12_N800, ouch. I should show you some of my international spam collection though O_o;
23:31.54qwerty12_N800johnx, heehee, contents of that sound scary :P
23:32.04*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)
23:32.19lcukisnt all spam international
23:33.08johnxmine is more international than most I think
23:33.43lcuklol
23:34.17qwerty12_N800showoff. :p
23:34.42johnxlooks into his spam folder for the first time in months...
23:34.58johnxspam is really surreal these days to get by bayesian filters ...
23:35.10lcukqwerty12_N800, did you see the red dwarf episode tonight?
23:35.25lcukdunno gmail is good at hiding most spam
23:35.31GeneralAntillesI usually just get empty messages.
23:35.54lcukive started to recently get random phonecam images sent directly from peoples phones
23:35.54qwerty12_N800lcuk: nah, was watching the xmen origins film
23:35.57lcukits awesome!
23:36.11johnxlcuk, like truck drivers and dock workers?
23:36.28lcukgets an awful lot of things expected to be sent to "*liquid@gmail"
23:36.38*** join/#maemo stv0 (n=steffen@dslb-084-058-240-153.pools.arcor-ip.net)
23:36.48lcukreal things which dont hit spam cos it isnt
23:36.51lcuksome are scary
23:37.07*** part/#maemo stv0 (n=steffen@dslb-084-058-240-153.pools.arcor-ip.net)
23:37.25johnxraises an eyebrow
23:37.41lcuktheres a number of users who have things like "mr.liquid@" "real.liquid@" etc
23:37.57lcukthe only thing i can think is people c&p the address and it stops at the .
23:38.24johnxaaaah, that makes sense
23:39.10lcukqwerty12_N800, the dodgy origins one with bluescreen and wires
23:39.24qwerty12_N800that's the one!
23:40.00lcuk^^^^^^^^^^^^ HAXX0R PIRATE ALERT ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ;)
23:40.51qwerty12_N800^^^^^^^^^^ NORTHERNER
23:41.04lcuk:O
23:41.17johnxquick Mr. PIRATE HAXX0R, help me apprehend the Northerner!
23:41.31lcukdownloads the movie to blend in
23:41.54lcukthat really has had the streisand effect
23:41.55tank-manso you are liquid@gmail.com :)
23:42.05lcukyes, liquid@gmail.com
23:42.14lcukand im downloading a dodgy pirate movie :O
23:43.58lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z4-4hHRMM0
23:44.09lcuk^ a dodgy pirate movie
23:44.43lcukomg, this movie IS dodgy
23:45.33johnxdoes it have pirates?
23:45.33lcukis that a ninja with a snorkling mask on?
23:46.10lcuki take that back, this is made of WIN!
23:46.31lcukit has sound effects!
23:46.57lcukthis has win wrote all over it
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23:56.30*** join/#maemo nelson (n=nelson@rrcs-72-43-17-175.nys.biz.rr.com)

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