| 00:02.20 | *** join/#maemo Andrewfblack (n=andrewfb@233-203.dothan.cable.graceba.net) |
| 00:02.46 | Andrewfblack | anyone installed Nitdroid using script on itt and can't get it to go past Nitdroaid boot screen |
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| 00:03.38 | pupnik | ARM and microcontroller based homemade helicopters, with gps tracking google earth, gyrscopes etc .. fun http://forum.mikrokopter.de/topic-7118.html |
| 00:04.42 | jaem | cool! |
| 00:06.33 | Andrewfblack | I think I wiped my windows partiton when I was doing the install for Nitdroid |
| 00:07.40 | fireun | ahh, evolution (; |
| 00:07.41 | Andrewfblack | I can't beleave that |
| 00:07.47 | fireun | survival of the fitest |
| 00:07.54 | fireun | all linux, all the time! |
| 00:08.12 | fireun | it was a subconcious act |
| 00:08.20 | Andrewfblack | yeah but my school work was on that partition |
| 00:08.22 | fireun | deep down, you know it was for the best |
| 00:08.35 | jaem | the school work had been tainted. It had to die |
| 00:08.41 | jaem | but still, that's too bad :( |
| 00:08.45 | fireun | oh, well... my condolences |
| 00:09.05 | Andrewfblack | now here is the qestion do I reinstall windows or move on and try to live with just the linux |
| 00:09.22 | fireun | I find wine works for all the little things I needed windows for |
| 00:09.29 | fireun | but your milage may vary |
| 00:09.32 | jaem | move on |
| 00:09.42 | Andrewfblack | Well there aer some games I don't think I would be able to play |
| 00:09.42 | jaem | or virtualize windows, if your computer can handle it |
| 00:10.02 | jaem | hmm... I don't game, but I haven't found anything else I needed Windows for in the last few years |
| 00:10.07 | jaem | s/few/two/ |
| 00:10.18 | fireun | games maybe you should have stopped play? school work is more important |
| 00:10.54 | fireun | I suddenly realize I havent played a game for months |
| 00:11.09 | Andrewfblack | ok found my school work it was back uped to my server |
| 00:11.18 | fireun | good job! |
| 00:11.32 | jaem | was it a *Linux* server? |
| 00:11.39 | fireun | hee |
| 00:11.43 | Andrewfblack | jaem you don't want to know : ) |
| 00:11.44 | jaem | otherwise you'll need to print out the homework and burn it |
| 00:11.53 | jaem | purge the windows taint from it |
| 00:12.06 | fireun | jaem: what if the fonts were windows fonts? |
| 00:12.08 | Andrewfblack | find me something as good and easy as windows home server and I would |
| 00:12.09 | jaem | okay, I'm just kidding |
| 00:12.22 | fireun | or are you? |
| 00:12.24 | jaem | fireun: then you'd need to go find the guys who wrote the fonts, and burn them |
| 00:12.42 | jaem | good old fashioned proprietary software witch hunt! |
| 00:12.47 | Andrewfblack | guess I know why tablet isn't booting Nitdroid I must have flashed it to my windows partiton on desktop lol |
| 00:12.54 | fireun | I spoke with someone the other week who was going to *buy* fonts! thats crazy. |
| 00:12.59 | jaem | it is |
| 00:13.04 | fireun | who *buys* fonts? |
| 00:13.22 | fireun | thats like saying you bougth some words the other day |
| 00:13.30 | GeneralAntilles | fireun, professionals who use them. |
| 00:13.32 | jaem | my uni spent an obscene amount of money on a new logo, which not only could have been designed by an 8-year old, but also used a really expensive font |
| 00:13.47 | GeneralAntilles | Alternatively you could ask: "Who *buys* art?" |
| 00:14.17 | jaem | that's a fair point - typography isn't as simple as some might think - you might say it /is/ art |
| 00:14.22 | fireun | fonts = art = questionable |
| 00:14.33 | jaem | questionability is not art |
| 00:14.41 | fireun | proof! |
| 00:14.55 | jaem | (fonts == art) == questionable? |
| 00:14.59 | jaem | and the answer would be true? |
| 00:15.01 | jaem | hrm |
| 00:15.10 | fireun | == maybe |
| 00:15.28 | fireun | which is a derivitive of 'sometimes' |
| 00:15.45 | jaem | yeah |
| 00:15.46 | fireun | but NOT equivelant! |
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| 00:15.52 | jaem | what about wingdings? |
| 00:15.55 | jaem | art, or not? |
| 00:16.40 | fireun | useful, or not? |
| 00:16.58 | jaem | not terribly |
| 00:17.05 | fireun | I havnt used a wingding in almost a decade |
| 00:17.15 | jaem | I don't think I ever have |
| 00:17.26 | fireun | maybe that little (c) thing, but I prefer (cc) anyways |
| 00:17.44 | jaem | although I remember back in elementary school, they banned "jokerman", because everyone thought it was cool to use on assignments |
| 00:17.50 | jaem | fireun: I'm with you there |
| 00:17.59 | fireun | and using the wingding for it is not necessary, you can just type (c) (cc) and the idea comes across |
| 00:18.22 | jaem | apparently there are some countries where (c) is not acceptable |
| 00:18.24 | jaem | or so I've heard |
| 00:18.42 | fireun | I've heard people suggesting to other students that they should use currier new, because at 12pt, it fills the page with fewer words! silliness. |
| 00:19.02 | fireun | how about 'copyright 1969' |
| 00:19.17 | fireun | or do they only allow 'copyleft 1969' |
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| 00:24.42 | GeneralAntilles | yanked the power cable on his router while vacuuming. . . . |
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| 00:24.53 | GeneralAntilles | mikkov_, I have a feeling darethehair is going to bring down Extras within the next 72 hours. |
| 00:27.22 | fireun | sometimes, I wonder what language you guys are using... |
| 00:27.46 | GeneralAntilles | Language? |
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| 00:29.48 | Andrewfblack | still can't get Nitdroid to boot on my tablet |
| 00:30.03 | Andrewfblack | even after I wiped my windows partiton lol |
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| 00:48.22 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog |
| 00:51.41 | jaem | I propose that we organize a channel-wide HDD wiping to show our support and sympathy |
| 00:53.50 | lcuk | you first |
| 00:54.16 | jaem | I was going to suggest having everyone type in their root passwords, and then we could do it as a community :P |
| 00:54.56 | jaem | we could do it as a fundraiser... kind of like shaving your heads for cancer |
| 00:55.16 | jaem | ..grr... apt-get in the Ubuntu chroot keeps hanging |
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| 01:03.58 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog |
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| 01:57.48 | earksiinni | hi everyone |
| 01:58.06 | earksiinni | does anyone have experience with creating bootable images for the it's? |
| 01:58.22 | earksiinni | i'm interested in creating a highly specialized mini-distro for the 770 |
| 01:59.05 | earksiinni | right now i just want to make a bootable initramfs/initrd image that i can upload to the device with the tool |
| 01:59.53 | earksiinni | if i need to RTFM i'd be more than happy to read the manual, but i don't know where that is :-) |
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| 02:02.03 | GeneralAntilles | earksiinni, it's the quite time. You'll probably want to talk to Stskeeps or johnx but I don't believe they're here at the moment. |
| 02:02.34 | earksiinni | GeneralAntilles, thanks again lol :-P |
| 02:03.29 | Mercury | Does anyone remember what the warrenty period is on the n810? I'm getting the feeling that I may need to use mine. |
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| 02:23.04 | GeneralAntilles | Mercury, 1 year for the US, should be 3 for EU |
| 02:23.07 | GeneralAntilles | dunno about other places. |
| 02:24.19 | Mercury | Alright, in the US, and it's been less then a year. |
| 02:24.36 | Mercury | Damn, I really don't want to be without it for a couple of weeks either. |
| 02:24.45 | GeneralAntilles | What's the problem? |
| 02:26.39 | Mercury | When I plug it into the computer via the micro USB cable, about 50% of the time I get lots and lots of block errors on the computer side (Linux) as it tries to read the partition tables, and the unit's UI locks. I can (sometimes) still ssh into the unit, at which point I see block errors being reported on the internal memory device, |
| 02:27.36 | Mercury | I've tried reflashing with the current Maemo build, which did not fix it. If there's a handy tool for doing a full erase of the flash and then a reformat that would probably be next. |
| 02:27.57 | GeneralAntilles | By "internal memory device" do you mean the 256MB of NAND or the 2GB eMMC? |
| 02:28.13 | GeneralAntilles | Because the 2GB eMMC shipped with an oversized partition table for a while. |
| 02:28.21 | GeneralAntilles | So repartitioning might help |
| 02:28.23 | Mercury | The 2GB eMMC. |
| 02:28.31 | GeneralAntilles | The flasher doesn't touch the cards. |
| 02:28.35 | GeneralAntilles | Only the 256MB of NAND. |
| 02:28.47 | Mercury | This is a new issue though, I've had the unit for over 6 months. But I'll definitely give repartitioning and formatting a try. |
| 02:29.02 | GeneralAntilles | Well, it doesn't crop up instantly. |
| 02:29.19 | GeneralAntilles | It'll become an issue whenever the out-of-range area of the partition table is used. |
| 02:29.27 | Mercury | Hrrm, not sure why it wouldn't be 100% if it's being caused by simply writing past the end, but I'll still give it a shot. |
| 02:29.28 | GeneralAntilles | Which can be 5 minutes after you start loading data or 6 months. |
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| 02:30.00 | GeneralAntilles | Alternatively the eMMC could just be shot. |
| 02:30.07 | GeneralAntilles | That's been know to happen once or twice, too. |
| 02:30.28 | Mercury | And if that's the case, it's a return for repair issue. Joy. |
| 02:31.08 | *** join/#maemo philv (n=huh@lebesgue.cowpig.ca) |
| 02:31.10 | Mercury | Well, let's hope that repartitioning helps. |
| 02:31.25 | Mercury | Any known issues with doing that from a PC with it attached as a mass storage device? |
| 02:31.41 | GeneralAntilles | Shouldn't be. |
| 02:31.57 | GeneralAntilles | If it doesn't work, there's always SSH. |
| 02:32.28 | neato_jones | Stskeeps: I'm actually talking to the guy who makes enlightenment. Hopefully we can get the enlightenment keyboard working |
| 02:32.34 | Mercury | Yep. |
| 02:32.43 | Mercury | GeneralAntilles: Thank you. :) |
| 02:33.16 | GeneralAntilles | Mercury, fixed? |
| 02:34.38 | Mercury | GeneralAntilles: Still copying ~1G of stuff off the eMMC. :) |
| 02:34.46 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe |
| 02:34.53 | GeneralAntilles | The USB interface is SLOOW |
| 02:36.08 | Mercury | Given that I mostly use it for ebooks. :) |
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| 02:40.32 | Mercury | I sure hope this works, I don't really want to go batshit insane due to lack of something to read with. :) |
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| 02:41.53 | Mido | Heya |
| 02:42.10 | Mido | I need a little help, a small amount of handholding if you will |
| 02:43.00 | Mido | I managed to set up Xephyr to forward X information to cygwin X on my xp machine, and I can start the emulator |
| 02:43.26 | Mido | but what im having a hard time with is understanding what things go where when it comes to the emulator's environment |
| 02:43.52 | Mido | I'm a bit confused at which manuals to read, since I go through them and end up feeling like they still skipped over some very fundamental things |
| 02:44.01 | Mido | which I simply am not used to |
| 02:44.29 | Mido | basically I'm asking how to put a compiled helloworld into a folder or file that the emulator will see and allow me to run |
| 02:46.54 | tank-man | mido, have you read this? http://maemo.org/development/training/maemo_getting_started_content/plain_html/node5/ |
| 02:47.15 | Mido | oh my :o |
| 02:47.36 | Mido | tank-man, lemme go through it and see if I still need help after that; thanks a lot |
| 02:48.00 | tank-man | good luck |
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| 02:54.20 | Mido | I really appreciate it :) |
| 02:55.27 | bef0rd | hi |
| 02:58.25 | tank-man | bonjour |
| 03:03.22 | Mido | first problem while following the tutorial |
| 03:03.26 | Mido | got pretty far with nothing wrong |
| 03:03.36 | Mido | but when we start using the pkg-config utility.. |
| 03:04.40 | Mido | http://rafb.net/p/gjf8Wd55.html |
| 03:04.44 | Mido | I get that |
| 03:04.56 | Mido | which is not what the tutorial says I should get |
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| 03:08.54 | Mido | I should note that all the version checks the tutorial has me do; line up perfectly |
| 03:08.55 | tank-man | yea second line says you are missing the program "pkg-config" from you path |
| 03:08.59 | Mido | ah |
| 03:09.06 | Mido | ill.. resolve that I guess :) |
| 03:09.22 | Mido | installing |
| 03:10.18 | tank-man | oh maybe cause you should use `pkg-config, not 'pkg-config |
| 03:11.10 | neato_jones | what is the framerate of hildon? |
| 03:11.30 | neato_jones | ..and is the N8x0 96 dpi |
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| 03:16.37 | GeneralAntilles | neato_jones, the LCD is 225dpi |
| 03:16.50 | GeneralAntilles | x is 96, though, I think. |
| 03:16.55 | GeneralAntilles | They just pumped up the font size. |
| 03:17.13 | GeneralAntilles | x updates are manual |
| 03:17.19 | GeneralAntilles | So there isn't really a "framerate" |
| 03:17.34 | neato_jones | thanks |
| 03:17.46 | neato_jones | k |
| 03:21.05 | neato_jones | anyone use Mer. how can you set up the usb ssh? |
| 03:23.17 | tank-man | http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking |
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| 03:36.04 | ezadkiel_mB | can anyone explain to me my scratchbox is giving me mmap: Permission denied when I am running as fakeroot? |
| 03:39.07 | tonyyarusso | What can I use to sync information from the GPE PIM tools to Evolution on my desktop? |
| 03:44.49 | Mido | tank-man, I installed the pkg-config from apt-get install, then tried what you said with ` instead of ' and I got http://rafb.net/p/w24p6177.html |
| 03:44.52 | Mido | v_v |
| 03:45.04 | Mido | seg faults |
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| 04:05.09 | b-man | I'm now chatting from booted ubuntu from my tablet! :D |
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| 04:06.29 | neato_jones | me too |
| 04:06.36 | neato_jones | bman-- |
| 04:06.40 | b-man_ubuntu | sweet] |
| 04:06.57 | neato_jones | talking to raster with the e17 people |
| 04:07.10 | neato_jones | trying to figure out the keyboard issues |
| 04:07.41 | neato_jones | he installed Mer, is building E17 now |
| 04:07.59 | Mido | :( |
| 04:07.59 | b-man_ubuntu | nice |
| 04:08.15 | Mido | I'm getting segfaults when I try to compile with gtk |
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| 04:08.48 | b-man_ubuntu | tests out firefox |
| 04:08.48 | neato_jones | compile which with gtk? |
| 04:08.59 | Mido | neato_jones, http://rafb.net/p/w24p6177.html |
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| 04:15.12 | neato_jones | Mido: why are you compiling libgtk2.0? |
| 04:17.40 | Mido | neato_jones, http://maemo.org/development/training/maemo_getting_started_content/plain_html/node5/ following this |
| 04:17.44 | Mido | I need to go afk for a bit |
| 04:17.49 | Mido | ill read anything you suggest |
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| 04:40.36 | Mido | god dammit xD |
| 04:40.46 | Mido | the net split erased what anyone might have said |
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| 04:44.40 | dougt | timelE61i: ping? |
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| 05:37.59 | sisto | hello |
| 05:38.17 | sisto | anyone using gnumeric? |
| 05:38.42 | sisto | i can't find a way to switch to another sheet |
| 05:38.50 | sisto | any hints? |
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| 05:39.16 | sans | hi |
| 05:39.20 | sans | Gm |
| 05:39.26 | sisto | hi |
| 05:41.23 | sans | I am checking if Aptana toolkit cud be used for making applications for maemo .can anybody suggest something |
| 05:41.51 | sisto | do you know how to switch between sheets in gnumeric for maemo? |
| 05:42.17 | sisto | sans: sorry no clue about that |
| 05:43.30 | sans | sisto:no idea about switching in gnumeric:( |
| 05:44.17 | sans | Stskeeps: hi |
| 05:45.23 | sans | Stskeeps:any way to make applications on Aptana and put it on maemo? |
| 05:45.49 | sans | timelE61i:any way to make applications on Aptana and put it on maemo? |
| 05:46.42 | tank-man | not going to ask me? :) |
| 05:46.51 | GeneralAntilles | sans, firing random questions at random people isn't usually a good way to get an answer. :) |
| 05:47.04 | GeneralAntilles | If there's somebody in the room who can answer, they will. |
| 05:48.38 | sans | k will keep in mind? |
| 05:49.05 | sans | :) |
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| 07:19.12 | RST38h | EHLO ALL |
| 07:21.06 | Stskeeps | helo |
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| 07:40.21 | earksiinni | hi all |
| 07:40.39 | earksiinni | i'm trying to mount the rootfs image according to http://wiki.maemo.org/Modifying_the_root_image |
| 07:40.56 | earksiinni | but i keep getting jffs2: Too few erase blocks (0) in dmesg |
| 07:41.07 | earksiinni | any ideas? |
| 07:45.17 | timeless | http://www.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2007-October/019675.html |
| 07:46.11 | qwerty12 | He's probably doing it wrong, it correctly lists 256 as the erase block size (and I've followed those instructions and made new images a few times with those instructions) |
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| 08:17.25 | Stskeeps | 'lo else58 |
| 08:17.35 | Stskeeps | er. |
| 08:17.41 | Stskeeps | earksiinni,b ut he let :P |
| 08:17.57 | Stskeeps | ponders how that message was full of fail. |
| 08:19.57 | Proteous | rofl |
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| 08:26.30 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 08:26.58 | Stskeeps | morning Jaffa |
| 08:27.03 | qwerty12 | mornin' |
| 08:27.23 | Proteous | mronin |
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| 08:31.24 | Stskeeps | qwerty12: did powerlaunch have a charging screen? |
| 08:31.38 | qwerty12 | Aye, unanimated though |
| 08:32.28 | Stskeeps | sure? thought it was in the code to animate |
| 08:33.36 | qwerty12 | It's been a long while since I've used it. It did have a problem though. It was either the animation thing or the writing and icon being way too small (which I know did happen for a fact) or both. |
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| 08:35.40 | Stskeeps | ah |
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| 08:41.14 | inz | Does powerlaunch have alarm dialog? |
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| 08:42.08 | qwerty12 | alarms were broken last time I tried it but I may be imagining the author saying he fixed the alarms in a later version. lemme check. |
| 08:42.21 | Stskeeps | uncertain, but it is probably programmable :P |
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| 08:42.31 | qwerty12 | "Alarms should be working in powerlaunch 0.9 and it's now installable from the maemo extras-devel repository" |
| 08:42.58 | inz | with localisation? |
| 08:43.26 | qwerty12 | iirc, it only speaks english |
| 08:44.02 | qwerty12 | But it's all handled by conf files anyway (including text strings) |
| 08:44.50 | inz | Ahh |
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| 08:48.01 | Stskeeps | powerlaunch is basically a programming language :P |
| 08:48.24 | inz | =) |
| 08:48.29 | inz | Generic problem solver |
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| 08:48.52 | qwerty12 | It also has the tendency to create problems for users :P |
| 08:49.03 | Stskeeps | yeah :P |
| 08:49.16 | inz | Wonder if system UI is still used in harmattan... |
| 08:49.58 | inz | Erm, meant fremantle |
| 08:51.07 | inz | Hmm, at least there's no osso-systemui-dbus-dev package in fremantle repos |
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| 09:05.45 | RST38h | moo all |
| 09:05.52 | qwerty12 | baa |
| 09:06.01 | RST38h | A curious thing happened yesterday |
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| 09:06.30 | RST38h | qwerty: Seen that post about Tracker on Maemo Planet? |
| 09:06.46 | qwerty12 | Seen it but I haven't read it yet |
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| 09:13.31 | RST38h | qwerty: Anyway, I left a comment to it yesterday, about how running tracker in background will affect cpu performance and battery consumption |
| 09:13.44 | RST38h | qwerty: Today, my comment has been quietly deleted. |
| 09:13.45 | qwerty12 | It's been deleted? |
| 09:13.48 | RST38h | Yea. |
| 09:13.54 | RST38h | Funny, isn't it? :) |
| 09:14.01 | qwerty12 | Indeed :) |
| 09:14.14 | RST38h | strokes his crystal balls |
| 09:14.40 | GeneralAntilles | You sure it's not just in a moderation queue? |
| 09:14.48 | RST38h | No, it has been there yesterday |
| 09:14.52 | GeneralAntilles | Anyway, it could hardly be worse than metalayer |
| 09:15.03 | RST38h | And it wasn't a flame too, just a very neutral question |
| 09:15.34 | RST38h | General: Judging from how Tracker behaves on desktop Ubuntu, it will |
| 09:16.10 | RST38h | General: very aggressive program, created 200MB of metadata in my ~ before I disabled it |
| 09:16.54 | GeneralAntilles | shrugs. |
| 09:16.57 | GeneralAntilles | Nokia's not stupid. |
| 09:17.10 | RST38h | Nokia is a company, it can't be "stupid" |
| 09:17.24 | GeneralAntilles | Maemo SW, then. |
| 09:17.30 | GeneralAntilles | Whatever term you want to use. |
| 09:17.43 | RST38h | Unfortunately, architectural decisions like that are made by live humans and some of them may be...mmm...unrealistic |
| 09:18.07 | GeneralAntilles | They've already shipped something similar for 3 years. |
| 09:18.20 | GeneralAntilles | It hasn't managed to kill the platform. |
| 09:19.46 | AStorm | companies can be stupid |
| 09:19.52 | AStorm | so. |
| 09:20.22 | RST38h | General: It is not going to kill the platform of course |
| 09:20.43 | RST38h | General: Will just piss the users. |
| 09:20.56 | RST38h | (see the previous metalayer fiasco) |
| 09:20.56 | Jaffa | jeremiah_: oh dear, you spelt Fremantle incorrectly; one of GeneralAntilles' bug bears ;-) |
| 09:20.58 | AStorm | definitely |
| 09:21.02 | AStorm | but we can fork |
| 09:21.16 | RST38h | would prefer to have a decent working base product |
| 09:21.19 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I'm building a capital M launcher as we speak. ;) |
| 09:21.22 | AStorm | unlike other poor sods |
| 09:21.30 | RST38h | "We can fork" is really not an answer :( |
| 09:21.33 | Stskeeps | RST38h: Tracker is -very- modified on Maemo |
| 09:21.43 | Stskeeps | (and tracker on maemo is the new desktop version) |
| 09:21.51 | AStorm | but is still slow |
| 09:21.54 | RST38h | Sts: Have you tried running whatever they released on Mer btw? |
| 09:21.55 | AStorm | :> |
| 09:21.59 | Stskeeps | RST38h: no, not yet |
| 09:22.13 | Stskeeps | but it is very modified and architecturally, it looks saner |
| 09:22.16 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, supposedly the beta releases will be available for Diablo, so you can test to your heart's content. |
| 09:22.19 | RST38h | Sts: Given how touchy its developers are about performance, it is well worth checking |
| 09:22.19 | Stskeeps | and if you can regulate when it scans.. |
| 09:22.21 | AStorm | btw, why do we even need such thing |
| 09:22.32 | Stskeeps | AStorm: media players. \o/ |
| 09:22.41 | AStorm | but why track in bg |
| 09:22.43 | RST38h | AStorm: some people love this |
| 09:22.48 | AStorm | why not load on demand |
| 09:22.58 | Jaffa | AStorm: because things like Canola and MediaBox take 60 seconds to start with a small media library? |
| 09:23.00 | RST38h | AStorm:not myself, but some others |
| 09:23.00 | Stskeeps | RST38h: you can probably get a good searcher if you utilize directory events |
| 09:23.01 | AStorm | or preload before demand |
| 09:23.13 | RST38h | Jaffa: Do not enable index-on-startup |
| 09:23.18 | Jaffa | Stskeeps: wasn't tracker - in some mode - supposed to use inotify? |
| 09:23.37 | Jaffa | RST38h: and then you have to update manually as an explicit step, which isn't very friendly either. |
| 09:23.46 | RST38h | Jaffa: No problem to me personally |
| 09:23.58 | AStorm | Jaffa, friendlier than grabbing battery |
| 09:24.01 | RST38h | Jaffa: I change content rarely, in big chunks |
| 09:24.11 | AStorm | although inotify-based updater should be cheap |
| 09:24.11 | Jaffa | In theory, having a central repository of all media on the device isn't a bad idea. It's just implementation which matters. |
| 09:24.12 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, then your use-case is clearly covered. |
| 09:24.22 | GeneralAntilles | Most people dislike having to screw around with that shit. |
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| 09:24.24 | AStorm | Jaffa, yes |
| 09:24.29 | RST38h | General: yea, I understand |
| 09:24.42 | RST38h | General: Not sure about "most", but many do |
| 09:24.48 | AStorm | the trick is removing old entries |
| 09:25.01 | AStorm | nso as to make the database small |
| 09:25.04 | AStorm | and handling removable devices |
| 09:25.43 | RST38h | Jaffa: the actual thing that matters is how aggresively you index |
| 09:26.15 | RST38h | Jaffa: my feeling is that there is no "right" setting for this, so I just default to "index when I ask you" |
| 09:26.33 | AStorm | inotify-based indexing can be aggressive and unobtrusive |
| 09:26.36 | Jaffa | RST38h: See, you're assuming an implementation detail (which both metalayer and tracker used) of constantly scanning the filesystem for changes, when Linux provides event-based notifications for that. |
| 09:26.41 | AStorm | it will index after write |
| 09:27.03 | AStorm | Jaffa, fix then. |
| 09:27.09 | AStorm | immediately |
| 09:27.21 | AStorm | it's a grave bug not to use this |
| 09:27.31 | Jaffa | I suspect that tracker, certainly, falls back to inotify - but it needs to scan to find the starting position. |
| 09:27.47 | AStorm | what starting position? |
| 09:27.50 | Stskeeps | Jaffa: yeah, probably |
| 09:27.51 | Jaffa | Less of an issue on a fresh-out-of-the-box mobile device |
| 09:27.57 | RST38h | Jaffa: yea, but using inotify, as I understand, will shift delay from overal operation to file system accesses |
| 09:27.58 | AStorm | you mean like mp3 delay? |
| 09:28.15 | Jaffa | AStorm: RST38h is basing his comments on trying tracker on his desktop. It'll already have had a whole shit of stuff on his box which inotify wouldn't tell him about. |
| 09:28.21 | AStorm | RST38h, indeed, but you have the file in cache already |
| 09:28.43 | AStorm | Jaffa, have one time manual scan |
| 09:28.48 | RST38h | Jaffa: as I said, my question about cpu/power consumption of the "new" tracker has been promptly deleted |
| 09:29.01 | RST38h | AStorm: ah, that's a bit better |
| 09:29.03 | Jaffa | RST38h: indeed, worrying. |
| 09:29.12 | GeneralAntilles | wouldn't assume malice so quickly. |
| 09:29.35 | RST38h | Dunno |
| 09:30.34 | Jaffa | AStorm: Now you're picking over the UI of a product I've not used, not involved in or whatever. Personally, I can see why doing the initial scan on install or first-startup is a better use-case in a lot of cases than doing it manually. But the ideal would be a "Welcome to Tracker. Your filesystem is x% full and should be indexed as soon as possible to provide most effective use. [Scan now] [Remind later] [Will start manually later]" |
| 09:30.47 | Jaffa | But this is an irrelevant UI in a system component on a mobile device, so not pertinent to #maemo |
| 09:31.00 | AStorm | mhm |
| 09:31.22 | AStorm | I mean adding a directory should force an immediate scan... or maybe delayed one |
| 09:31.24 | RST38h | it is really a personal preference |
| 09:31.27 | AStorm | ui issue indeed |
| 09:31.39 | Stskeeps | RST38h: i'm happy as long as i can ask tracker not to run |
| 09:31.41 | RST38h | and we are not even talking about how you index but WHEN |
| 09:31.45 | AStorm | still, inotify has to be used. |
| 09:31.46 | Stskeeps | whereas metalayer-crawler was a bit of a hack to remove |
| 09:31.46 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 09:31.47 | RST38h | Sts: same here |
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| 09:32.27 | RST38h | Sts: My guess is we are not gonna get this option, but I am always a pessimist |
| 09:32.52 | AStorm | fortunately, we can fix this |
| 09:33.31 | Stskeeps | RST38h: yeah, but as AStorm says, we have the freedom to whack tracker to death :P |
| 09:33.55 | Stskeeps | still is laughing on the inside on the paid apps not working on adp1. :P |
| 09:33.59 | AStorm | have a control panel applet, for example |
| 09:34.15 | inz | http://inz.fi/blog/2009/02/27/scratchbox-on-amd64/ |
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| 09:34.43 | Stskeeps | inz: thumbs up :) it's the most common complaint amongst users :P |
| 09:34.59 | AStorm | inz, :D |
| 09:35.17 | Stskeeps | wonders if alpha drop happens today |
| 09:36.03 | AStorm | ehh, why can't we just have blessed *working* sbox2? |
| 09:36.22 | AStorm | instead of crazy hacks like this one |
| 09:36.29 | qwerty12 | sbox2 goes out of its way to be anal retentive |
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| 09:36.49 | Stskeeps | eh, when was last drop? |
| 09:37.09 | AStorm | then why nit have sbox1 fixed to work with vdso |
| 09:37.18 | AStorm | randomization |
| 09:37.40 | AStorm | I suspect some major stupidity going down there if it needs that disabled |
| 09:38.20 | RST38h | Sts: I wonder what the next android-related snafu is going to be |
| 09:38.34 | Stskeeps | RST38h: ADP1 phones requiring "activation key" |
| 09:38.46 | RST38h | Sts: 'cause Android just continues to deliver lulz =) |
| 09:38.48 | AStorm | woohoo, walled garden |
| 09:39.33 | Proteous | duh, you don't want people stealing your tomatoes |
| 09:39.52 | *** join/#maemo lbt (n=david@78.32.229.233) |
| 09:39.53 | Proteous | my garden has fuxing razor wire |
| 09:39.55 | RST38h | suggests inz to switch to a geniune Intel desktop |
| 09:40.09 | Proteous | intel makes CPUs not desktops |
| 09:40.21 | RST38h | Proteous: Do your tomatoes have teeth too? =) |
| 09:40.25 | Proteous | my desktop is formica |
| 09:40.26 | AStorm | wrong |
| 09:40.32 | AStorm | Centrino platform |
| 09:40.36 | RST38h | Proteous: Actually, Intel makes the whole platform |
| 09:40.56 | AStorm | intel doesn't make peripherials though |
| 09:41.08 | RST38h | AStorm: makes flash memory |
| 09:41.20 | AStorm | but not pendrives |
| 09:41.27 | AStorm | so still not peripherials :P |
| 09:41.40 | AStorm | (or cards) |
| 09:41.47 | Corsac | there make the ADD card |
| 09:41.50 | Corsac | they* |
| 09:41.57 | RST38h | AStorm: http://www.intel.com/design/flash/NAND/mainstream/ |
| 09:41.58 | Corsac | and they make motherboards |
| 09:42.02 | Corsac | which is kind-of a card :) |
| 09:42.12 | AStorm | nope and nope |
| 09:42.25 | AStorm | peripherial is stuff you put outside the box |
| 09:42.37 | AStorm | the logo is "intel inside" for a reason |
| 09:42.41 | AStorm | ;) |
| 09:42.45 | Corsac | intel ahead |
| 09:43.05 | *** join/#maemo zap (n=zap@mail.cobra.ru) |
| 09:43.07 | RST38h | AStorm: Don't pay too much attention to whatever marketing department produces |
| 09:43.09 | *** join/#maemo profoX` (n=wesley@ip-83-134-77-85.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 09:43.55 | RST38h | Ah, my tracker question is back =) |
| 09:44.09 | RST38h | Must have been a glitch of some kind. No answer though. |
| 09:44.55 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: ways around 3rd party apps so far: Skype (they point to .install file on their homepage, so can we.), Gizmo points to armel deb. |
| 09:45.20 | GeneralAntilles | Why are unbundled 3rd-party applications an issue? |
| 09:45.33 | AStorm | btw, do we have Skype 2 for armel already? |
| 09:45.36 | Stskeeps | well, i'm saying it's possible for users to grab :) |
| 09:45.52 | GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, duh. :P |
| 09:46.10 | Stskeeps | without having to resort to upgrade repositories :P |
| 09:46.45 | RST38h | salivates over http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/02/27/review_laptop_12in_toshiba_portege_r600/ |
| 09:47.30 | AStorm | 12" is too large |
| 09:47.35 | AStorm | ;> |
| 09:47.54 | GeneralAntilles | Tablet or bust |
| 09:47.58 | RST38h | AStorm: I use R100 as a desktop replacement |
| 09:48.14 | AStorm | uh, my desktop replacement is 17" |
| 09:48.25 | RST38h | i.e. 12" is a bit too small for me :) But will do, given the weight and size |
| 09:48.31 | AStorm | and just 133 PPI |
| 09:48.52 | AStorm | I'd love a larger resolution screen |
| 09:49.12 | RST38h | you have got the tablet =) |
| 09:49.15 | GeneralAntilles | uses a desktop as his desktop replacement and a tablet as his laptop replacement. |
| 09:50.42 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 09:51.38 | Stskeeps | ponders idly when there will be response on the 3rd party hw interfacing |
| 09:52.09 | Stskeeps | then again i'm probably just impatient :P |
| 09:53.03 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@pluto.systemone.at) |
| 09:53.05 | GeneralAntilles | can only imagine Nokia Legal's priority list. |
| 09:53.13 | Stskeeps | hehe |
| 09:53.19 | GeneralAntilles | 1. Keep Microsoft from suing. |
| 09:53.24 | GeneralAntilles | 2. Avoid submarine patents. |
| 09:53.42 | timeless | that's about right |
| 09:53.43 | GeneralAntilles | 3. Deal with whack-job Linux farkheads. |
| 09:53.50 | timeless | we talked about 1 yesterday before dinner |
| 09:54.00 | Stskeeps | ah, my 3. was dealing with RMS by feeling him children |
| 09:54.00 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 09:54.04 | Stskeeps | feeding |
| 09:54.31 | Stskeeps | timeless: yeah, some of those patents are -nasty- |
| 09:54.48 | timeless | they were early and smart |
| 09:54.49 | Stskeeps | (looking at tomtom case) |
| 09:55.02 | timeless | sadly, they really constrain what can be done |
| 09:55.16 | Stskeeps | timeless: i do wonder how many patents nokia has that android and such probably infringes though :P |
| 09:55.27 | timeless | "i don't want to know" |
| 09:55.47 | timeless | finding out can be very bad for people who work in certain areas |
| 09:55.51 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 09:55.56 | GeneralAntilles | It's interesting that no lightweight free alternative to FAT has come forward. |
| 09:55.56 | RST38h | Sts: He is probably a vegetarian, judging from how wacky he is overally |
| 09:56.21 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: it's no use if cameras don't use them, so |
| 09:56.46 | timeless | wouldn't something which tries to emulate fat still hit fat patents? |
| 09:57.05 | GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, I think at least having something embedded vendors could consider would be a start. |
| 09:57.19 | RST38h | General: FAT isn't there because it is technically superior, it is there because everybody uses it |
| 09:57.32 | GeneralAntilles | timeless, hehe, I was just considering a translation layer that shows an EXT*/UBIFS volume as FAT to a PC connected via USB. |
| 09:57.35 | timeless | it's also simple and easy to implement |
| 09:57.40 | RST38h | So, any alternative will end up like Ogg Vorbis |
| 09:57.40 | GeneralAntilles | ^ |
| 10:00.33 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, I wouldn't be surprised about it not being picked up, just about there being no options available. |
| 10:07.26 | *** join/#maemo _berto_ (n=berto@fanzine.igalia.com) |
| 10:07.27 | RST38h | General: lemme google ;) |
| 10:08.05 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, good point. |
| 10:08.17 | GeneralAntilles | is hardly familiar with all free filesystems. |
| 10:08.29 | GeneralAntilles | Though I'd assume if there were something I'd've heard about it. |
| 10:08.34 | RST38h | general: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#Flash_file_systems |
| 10:08.44 | RST38h | The explanation is somewhat unexpected too |
| 10:09.02 | RST38h | "These removable flash memory devices use the FAT file system to allow universal compatibility with computers, cameras, PDAs and other portable devices with memory card slots or ports." |
| 10:09.26 | AStorm | compatibility, yup |
| 10:09.28 | RST38h | In other words, "FAT" you see is not necessarily what is used by the drive |
| 10:09.47 | RST38h | It is just a simulation layer to make Windows read it |
| 10:09.50 | AStorm | it usually is. |
| 10:09.54 | AStorm | nope |
| 10:10.11 | RST38h | Flash file systems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_file_system |
| 10:10.16 | AStorm | nowadays they use that funky MS camera protocol |
| 10:10.28 | RST38h | AStorm: They still fall back to umass |
| 10:10.48 | AStorm | ah, you mean USB devices |
| 10:10.57 | AStorm | those do simulate FAT |
| 10:11.01 | RST38h | SD cards as well |
| 10:11.16 | AStorm | yes |
| 10:12.14 | *** join/#maemo zenvoid (n=rgs@145.pool85-53-202.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 10:12.25 | Stskeeps | 'lo zenvoid |
| 10:12.36 | GeneralAntilles | I don't really care about what's going on at a lower-level here, though, just avoiding having to use FAT without having a compatibility impact. |
| 10:13.37 | RST38h | Can't |
| 10:13.50 | RST38h | Unless you would like it to simulate NTFS of course :) |
| 10:14.10 | AStorm | nah, ntfs can't be read by most mobile devices |
| 10:14.38 | zenvoid | Stskeeps: hello. I have a question for you ;-) |
| 10:14.44 | Stskeeps | zenvoid: shoot :) |
| 10:14.54 | zenvoid | Stskeeps: I can't find the SBOX_COMPILER_ARGS variable, where is it? |
| 10:15.22 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, in our case, why not? |
| 10:15.41 | GeneralAntilles | Format the built-in card as EXT3, then show a FAT device to things connected via USB. |
| 10:15.51 | Stskeeps | zenvoid: export SBOX_EXTRA_COMPILER_ARGS="-Wno-poison-system-directories -march=armv5te" |
| 10:15.56 | Stskeeps | before running scratchbox |
| 10:17.27 | GeneralAntilles | wonders why a lot of the itT ads are no longer being blocked. |
| 10:17.41 | Stskeeps | t.m.o will be ad-free? |
| 10:17.45 | GeneralAntilles | Yes |
| 10:17.46 | zenvoid | Stskeeps: heh, thanks |
| 10:18.54 | Stskeeps | is seriously wondering what causes this bloody wifi problem |
| 10:18.57 | Stskeeps | (on n8x0) |
| 10:19.01 | zenvoid | Now I undestand why "grep -r SBOX_COMPILER_ARGS" in sbox sources doesn't returned anything :D |
| 10:19.04 | Stskeeps | hehe |
| 10:19.29 | *** join/#maemo avs_ (n=avs@192.100.124.156) |
| 10:20.24 | Stskeeps | still in dependancy hell? :) |
| 10:21.56 | zenvoid | this time I was just trying several things :) |
| 10:22.18 | zenvoid | wondering if "-march=armv6j -mtune=arm1136jf-s -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp" would make any speed difference in the n8x0 |
| 10:23.13 | Stskeeps | ah |
| 10:23.24 | Stskeeps | we need some investigations into HWCAP at least |
| 10:23.40 | Stskeeps | suihkulokki was looking at them i think |
| 10:24.18 | zenvoid | that also would be interesting to know |
| 10:25.34 | GeneralAntilles | bangs head against the wall @ "freemantle". |
| 10:26.31 | Stskeeps | zenvoid: i have a xomap building for mer btw if you want to experiment with it. It seems to have spooky interaction with HIM (works not in fields but it works in osso-xterm..) |
| 10:27.38 | GeneralAntilles | They all must be doing it intentionally. |
| 10:27.41 | GeneralAntilles | People can't really be this thick. |
| 10:27.51 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: mental slip just like "the the"? |
| 10:28.17 | Stskeeps | you should do a "I'm GeneralAntilles and i pronounce Fremantle as Fr3mantel" wav |
| 10:28.17 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 10:28.23 | Stskeeps | or something |
| 10:28.28 | qwerty12 | Stskeeps, you should have called Mer freemantle :P |
| 10:28.34 | GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, it's all too consistent to be a slip up. |
| 10:28.41 | GeneralAntilles | freemantle for maemo |
| 10:28.41 | aquatix | GeneralAntilles: i think they pronounce it freemantle in their head |
| 10:28.45 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@pluto.systemone.at) |
| 10:28.47 | GeneralAntilles | freemantle for Maemo.org |
| 10:28.47 | aquatix | i know i do it like that |
| 10:28.49 | Stskeeps | maemo5. :P |
| 10:29.08 | aquatix | so Fremantle soon becomes Freemantle by accident |
| 10:29.14 | RST38h | General: Just leave it be, at least they do not write it as "free mantle" |
| 10:29.21 | aquatix | ghehe |
| 10:29.29 | Jaffa | aquatix: that's how "fremantle" *is* pronounced (AIUI) |
| 10:29.36 | aquatix | Jaffa: yeah |
| 10:29.48 | RST38h | still mourns for the Elephanta. That would be one hell of a release name. |
| 10:29.55 | aquatix | so it's just some freudian thing then, i guess |
| 10:30.00 | aquatix | RST38h: :) |
| 10:30.36 | Stskeeps | Mantle (mollusc), an organ used by mollusks to secrete their shells |
| 10:30.40 | Stskeeps | ponders. |
| 10:31.32 | zenvoid | Stskeeps: sure, it is xomap in the repo? |
| 10:32.52 | Stskeeps | xserver-xomap but i'm unsure where it is, hm |
| 10:34.20 | RST38h | Sts: Fmermantle as a MeR release! |
| 10:34.21 | roope | At least all Finns pronounce it with only one "e". |
| 10:34.58 | RST38h | has no idea how Finns pronounce "e" thouggh =) |
| 10:35.24 | Stskeeps | RST38h: my pet peeve is people calling Mer MeR (i don't blame them though. Original name was M-R) |
| 10:35.45 | GAN800 | MER |
| 10:36.15 | GAN800 | Maemo Emergency Reconsideration |
| 10:36.59 | GAN800 | is going to blow up his tablet the next time MicroB tops itself. |
| 10:37.15 | qwerty12 | That wont take long to happen then |
| 10:37.48 | GAN800 | timeless, this attention whoring behavior can't be healthy. :( |
| 10:37.59 | timeless | yeah well... um |
| 10:38.08 | timeless | how about i get lunch ? :P) |
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| 10:46.56 | jeremiah_ | hello good maemoians :) |
| 10:47.19 | qwerty12 | morning :) |
| 10:48.50 | jeremiah_ | Do any of you hotshot development people use lintian when you create packages for maemo? |
| 10:49.07 | jeremiah_ | (lintian is the debian policy checker for those who don't know.) |
| 10:49.12 | qwerty12 | <guilty-look>no</guilty-look> |
| 10:49.17 | jeremiah_ | heh |
| 10:49.21 | jeremiah_ | :) |
| 10:49.23 | RST38h | No, packaging is too much hassle as it is |
| 10:49.33 | jeremiah_ | RST38h: Yeah - fair point. |
| 10:50.02 | jeremiah_ | RST38h: What are the pain points? What sucks about packagingg? |
| 10:50.11 | jeremiah_ | How can we fix it. |
| 10:50.21 | RST38h | jeremiah: many disconnected config files to make changes to |
| 10:50.35 | jeremiah_ | Okay. |
| 10:50.37 | *** join/#maemo doc|work (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 10:50.37 | RST38h | makefile, control, changes, etc. |
| 10:50.43 | jeremiah_ | yeah. |
| 10:51.08 | RST38h | debian tools breaking for weird sb-related reasons |
| 10:51.24 | jeremiah_ | sb-related? |
| 10:51.24 | RST38h | (I am using sb2 though, so I have been warned :)) |
| 10:51.32 | jeremiah_ | Oh, scratchbox |
| 10:51.50 | RST38h | Right now, whatever Perl scripts deb packager runs all complain about some locale misconfiguration |
| 10:51.56 | RST38h | Very noisily, too |
| 10:52.08 | jeremiah_ | I suppose I should look at the buglist to find more scratchbox - debian issues. |
| 10:52.10 | RST38h | That is latest SB2 + Etch tools I think |
| 10:52.15 | jeremiah_ | RST38h: Yeah, that is a hassle. |
| 10:52.23 | jeremiah_ | I have had that in debian and in Ubuntu |
| 10:52.31 | jeremiah_ | I will work on fixing that. |
| 10:52.47 | RST38h | Also, I am making binary only packages (none of my stuff is GPLed) so I have it a bit easier than the rest |
| 10:53.04 | jeremiah_ | how so? |
| 10:53.11 | RST38h | No need to deal with autobuilder |
| 10:53.18 | jeremiah_ | Ah. |
| 10:53.29 | jeremiah_ | So the autobuilder is a source of frustration? |
| 10:53.38 | RST38h | AFAIK yes |
| 10:53.44 | jeremiah_ | okay. |
| 10:54.11 | jeremiah_ | I am going to look carefully at autobuilder logs to try to eliminate some of that stuff. |
| 10:54.12 | *** join/#maemo darktears (n=darktear@kde/developer/menard) |
| 10:54.21 | RST38h | There is also a long standing request to autogenerate changes section from the deb package |
| 10:54.24 | darktears | mmm scratchbox seems to be done |
| 10:54.29 | darktears | down |
| 10:54.42 | darktears | is there any mirrors where i can get tarballs? |
| 10:55.25 | RST38h | I.e. when a deb package is dput (dputted? :)) to the repo, the server should extract changes list (and probably some other stuff like icon, app name etc) and automatically copy it to the maemo.org project page |
| 10:55.52 | jeremiah_ | RST38h: You mean just to automatically create a complete change log from debian's - this is pretty much already done with dch |
| 10:55.57 | RST38h | Right now, doing it manually. No much hassle for a single package but becomes a chore when I commit 4-5 |
| 10:56.21 | jeremiah_ | RST38h: I agree 100% with that - that should happen. |
| 10:56.21 | RST38h | jeremiah: The idea is not just to generate the log but to make it show at the maemo.org project page |
| 10:56.28 | jeremiah_ | Now I get it. |
| 10:56.46 | RST38h | package also carries an icon and a full app name, etc - all these can be made use of |
| 10:56.48 | GAN800 | 'project page'? Downloads or Garage? |
| 10:56.51 | jeremiah_ | darktears: What exactly is down for you? |
| 10:56.53 | RST38h | Downloads |
| 10:57.04 | darktears | jeremiah_: sorry the website |
| 10:57.04 | RST38h | garage pages are not directly related to deb packages (usually) |
| 10:57.15 | darktears | scratchbox.org |
| 10:58.07 | RST38h | jeremiah: For the bottomless bin of requests, I suggest you talk to the guys improving Maemo App manager. That would be Jaffa and a few other folks |
| 10:58.08 | *** join/#maemo notcoolbuthot (n=notcoolb@86.122.8.46) |
| 10:58.27 | *** join/#maemo notcoolbuthot (n=notcoolb@86.122.8.46) |
| 10:58.34 | RST38h | jeremiah: They are basically discussing much tighter integration of app manager with the repos (or extras repo at least) |
| 10:59.05 | jeremiah_ | Did you try to install it using the scratchbox installer script from maemo.org? |
| 10:59.11 | jeremiah_ | darktears: ^^ |
| 10:59.28 | darktears | yes it wget on scratchbox.org |
| 10:59.30 | jeremiah_ | RST38h: Okay, will do. |
| 10:59.31 | darktears | screwed |
| 10:59.39 | jeremiah_ | darktears: ah, okay. |
| 11:00.02 | jeremiah_ | That's not good. |
| 11:00.49 | darktears | i didn't find any mirros somewhere... |
| 11:00.54 | darktears | mirrors |
| 11:01.19 | *** join/#maemo croppa (n=stuart@135.27.233.220.exetel.com.au) |
| 11:01.27 | notcoolbuthot | . |
| 11:03.23 | *** join/#maemo calvaris (n=calvaris@fanzine.igalia.com) |
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| 11:04.43 | jeremiah_ | darktears: I have filed a bug about it. |
| 11:05.21 | jeremiah_ | Seems to be some other related internet issues in Finaland as well, can't reach movial.fi |
| 11:05.40 | jeremiah_ | Finland has fallen off the internet. |
| 11:06.21 | darktears | loool |
| 11:06.40 | ShadowJK | not all of it |
| 11:06.42 | darktears | at least having mirrors in case can be good :D, scratchbox is not big |
| 11:06.51 | timelE61i | wE're here |
| 11:07.11 | darktears | jeremiah_: but thanks |
| 11:07.14 | jeremiah_ | yay! At least timeless is online. |
| 11:07.17 | jeremiah_ | :) |
| 11:07.45 | timelE61i | more like waiting for a manager who is late for a meeting |
| 11:07.53 | jeremiah_ | aha |
| 11:08.33 | timelE61i | So... I still need a solution |
| 11:08.50 | timelE61i | I'm tempted to just have my packages refuse to uninstall |
| 11:16.18 | jeremiah_ | timelE61i: Yes - I am still working on it, there are a couple other things on my plate too, but I have not given up. |
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| 11:25.41 | andre__ | errr.... how should we fix a 3rd party server that is down? |
| 11:26.05 | andre__ | what is a " scratchbox.org is down " report about? to use more mirrors in the scripts? otherwise it's invalid... |
| 11:27.25 | Stskeeps | heh, if movial went bankrupt maemo sdk installer would be fried? :P (didn't read bug report) |
| 11:27.49 | timeless | andre: you can find a contact and report upstream :) |
| 11:27.57 | timeless | "hey, foopy, your servers are down" |
| 11:27.59 | *** join/#maemo zs (n=zs@87-205-141-97.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 11:28.06 | andre__ | errr |
| 11:28.07 | timeless | but we could also host our own mirror |
| 11:28.22 | timeless | relying on a third party for the sdk is um... |
| 11:28.52 | andre__ | well, it happens all the time. same problem with some external dependencies in gnome :-P |
| 11:28.56 | andre__ | this is the internet |
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| 11:48.09 | lcuk2 | ermmmm could someone give me warning if movial get into difficulties and decide to have an omap3 firesale |
| 11:48.15 | lcuk2 | ;) |
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| 11:53.21 | Stskeeps | tries out prelinking on 770 for kicks. |
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| 11:59.54 | igagis | does anybody know how to disable screen tap sound for a particular application? |
| 12:01.33 | timelE61i | igagis: err |
| 12:01.46 | igagis | timelE61i: ? |
| 12:01.48 | timelE61i | If the user turns on or off sound globally |
| 12:02.00 | timelE61i | Why should your app ignore the user's will? |
| 12:02.17 | igagis | hm... my application produces its own sound on screen tap |
| 12:02.45 | igagis | and when there is that default sound played in parallel it sounds bad |
| 12:02.51 | timelE61i | and if the user turns off screen sounds? |
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| 12:03.43 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 12:03.44 | igagis | actually my application is made to produce sounds |
| 12:03.54 | *** join/#maemo _BuBU (n=_BuBU@198.48.67-86.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 12:04.19 | timelE61i | Anyway.. Standard technique: |
| 12:04.32 | timelE61i | 1. Make a backup of your settings |
| 12:04.48 | igagis | my app is a kind of musical instrumen, when you tap screen it produces sound |
| 12:04.53 | timelE61i | 2. Change the setting you don't know about from control panel |
| 12:05.04 | timelE61i | 3. Make a new backup |
| 12:05.14 | timelE61i | 4. The backups are zip files |
| 12:05.20 | timelE61i | You can compare them |
| 12:05.25 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (n=wrt54gl@190.216.32.137) |
| 12:05.30 | jeremiah_ | andre__: Well, I thought I should report it to someone . . . |
| 12:05.40 | *** join/#maemo calvaris (n=calvaris@fanzine.igalia.com) |
| 12:05.47 | jeremiah_ | andre__: Where should a report about scratchbox.org being down go to? |
| 12:05.48 | timelE61i | Similarly, you can zip /var/lib/gconf which is where settings actually live |
| 12:05.52 | timelE61i | And diff that |
| 12:05.59 | igagis | ok, understood |
| 12:06.20 | igagis | but I wonder how other applications which works with sound disable that tapping sounds? |
| 12:07.25 | igagis | the best way would be to disable tap sounds only for my application, while, if user taps outside the application window the tap sound would still play... is it possible? |
| 12:07.50 | igagis | Thus, I need to disable these sound only for a life time of the application |
| 12:13.04 | igagis | timelE61i: from your explanation it looks like these sounds are produced somewhere in low level layers, possibly on driver level, so, it is not possible to control it per application, only system wide, by changing system settings. And also not possible from application. Anyway, thanks for help! |
| 12:13.57 | Stskeeps | igagis: you can probably temporarily switch it in gconf though |
| 12:14.38 | timelE61i | i haven't read the sources |
| 12:14.55 | andre__ | jeremiah_, to someone who can fix it :-D |
| 12:14.58 | timelE61i | But the way it works is the sound is triggered *early* |
| 12:15.05 | andre__ | (means: no idea) |
| 12:15.08 | timelE61i | Long before the app gets the message |
| 12:15.28 | timelE61i | So the user knows that the system is going to respond |
| 12:15.38 | qwerty12_N800 | the tap sound is produced by the closed source multimediad |
| 12:16.27 | igagis | Ok, I may be thinking to switch it on gconf temporarily somehow... |
| 12:17.52 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 12:31.12 | lcuk2 | igagis, look at boxar |
| 12:31.20 | lcuk2 | it does same thing |
| 12:31.40 | lcuk2 | alternatively pyano does as well |
| 12:31.59 | lcuk2 | not sure about the tap click sound, but it might be depending on which widget set you are clicking on |
| 12:46.08 | igagis | lcuk2: ok, I'll have alook at boxar, thanks |
| 12:47.34 | jeremiah_ | andre__: Who might that be? |
| 12:47.46 | jeremiah_ | Nokia owns the domain name |
| 12:49.06 | timelE61i | scratchbox.org? |
| 12:49.59 | andre__ | Movial, not Nokia |
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| 12:52.34 | *** join/#maemo Myrtti (i=myrtti@ubuntu/member/myrtti) |
| 12:52.41 | Myrtti | hello kids |
| 12:52.50 | andre__ | hi mum |
| 12:53.44 | lcuk2 | practices juknitku but gets himself tied in knots |
| 12:53.49 | lcuk2 | ello Myrtti |
| 12:53.59 | Myrtti | pinches andre__s cheek |
| 12:54.34 | Stskeeps | morning Myrtti |
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| 13:06.26 | lcuk2 | Stskeeps, if i rerun the flashing thing for mer again will it just overwrite everything on the mmc again |
| 13:06.42 | Stskeeps | which now? |
| 13:06.56 | lcuk2 | the same |
| 13:07.05 | Stskeeps | flashing thing = which one :) |
| 13:07.07 | lcuk2 | what ill do is rerun it and actually note down the observations |
| 13:07.10 | lcuk2 | lol |
| 13:07.15 | lcuk2 | installation of mer from scratch |
| 13:07.36 | Stskeeps | it should overwrite everything yes |
| 13:08.07 | lcuk2 | ill talk to you later about it anyway then, but if i make a note whilst doing it it may be easier to diagnose and find any root causes for things |
| 13:08.12 | lcuk2 | catch ya later on |
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| 13:20.29 | oli | can mplayer on n800 play rmvb files? |
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| 13:21.37 | sisto | anyone know how to switch between sheets on gnumeric for maemo? |
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| 13:23.59 | sisto | -.- |
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| 13:28.04 | timelE61i | the isp claims it should be up in an hour |
| 13:28.24 | timelE61i | But people should use sbox2 ;) |
| 13:29.19 | qwerty12_N800 | If they find getting pissed off a favourite pastime, then yes |
| 13:29.41 | Stskeeps | sb2 could be a lot saner, truely |
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| 13:49.56 | Stskeeps | ~seen johnx |
| 13:49.57 | infobot | johnx <n=john@p2172-ipbf2302hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 7d 19h 15m 4s ago, saying: 'wazd, nice find :)'. |
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| 14:05.56 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog |
| 14:06.20 | *** join/#maemo skibur (i=1000@12.197.205.184) |
| 14:06.44 | Jaffa | Palm webOS detailed examples of producing apps: http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/27/palm-finally-manages-to-bore-us-to-tears-with-webos-mojo-sdk-tut/ |
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| 14:18.37 | rm_you | Stskeeps: yeah dunno where he disappeared to... |
| 14:18.54 | rm_you | Stskeeps: i've been looking for him for a while <_< |
| 14:18.58 | rm_you | runs |
| 14:19.36 | Stskeeps | alright, we'll see :P hope he's alright |
| 14:19.47 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at) |
| 14:20.33 | lcuk2 | thanks jaffa, ill look later |
| 14:22.51 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (n=pupnik@pD95FD810.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:23.46 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A17B75.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:29.23 | thopiekar | jeremiah_: please write back if you are online.. |
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| 14:35.38 | RST38h | Who are these entities? What are they doing? http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/9052_Nokias_Connected_Worlds_To_Dis.php |
| 14:36.12 | Stskeeps | 'Spellbound Hermit'? |
| 14:36.25 | Stskeeps | ah, true. SL. |
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| 14:36.55 | Myrtti | ewwwww secondlife |
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| 14:38.54 | Stskeeps | ponders how to improve performance on 770 |
| 14:39.43 | inz | liquid nitrogen? |
| 14:40.19 | inz | i bet you'd get 5GHz out of that baby |
| 14:40.23 | Stskeeps | cyanide might do it. die before it's loaded, go to heaven anyway |
| 14:40.23 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 14:41.10 | jeremiah_ | thopiekar: Hi there! |
| 14:41.19 | Stskeeps | tried prelink but it didn't work :) |
| 14:41.57 | thopiekar | jeremiah_: where are my streamripper packages I uploaded to extras before? |
| 14:42.17 | jeremiah_ | I'm not sure thopiekar. :) |
| 14:42.40 | thopiekar | hmm.. uploading them again? |
| 14:42.47 | jeremiah_ | I don't think anyone removed them, if that's what you mean. |
| 14:42.55 | thopiekar | :P |
| 14:43.02 | jeremiah_ | I know I didn't, and I doubt X-Fade did. :) |
| 14:43.15 | thopiekar | :D |
| 14:43.23 | jeremiah_ | I can take a peak though . . . |
| 14:43.40 | jeremiah_ | looks in the repos for thopiekar's packages |
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| 14:46.12 | jeremiah_ | I see streamripper 1.63 in extras |
| 14:47.48 | thopiekar | hmm I was looking for them in the promotion list of diablo but they where nowhere in the list I think... thanks for looking anyway :P |
| 14:48.06 | jeremiah_ | Sure thing! |
| 14:48.44 | woodong50 | when next version is out? |
| 14:49.03 | jeremiah_ | Of Maemo? |
| 14:49.07 | woodong50 | n810 |
| 14:49.10 | jeremiah_ | Next version of what? |
| 14:49.20 | thopiekar | jeremiah_: maemo.. :P |
| 14:49.42 | woodong50 | n900 |
| 14:50.00 | Myrtti | takes out her crystal ball |
| 14:50.18 | RST38h | jeremiah: About autobuilder: |
| 14:50.32 | thopiekar | Myrtti: :D |
| 14:50.48 | RST38h | jeremiah: There is a Python guy who was having problems with it. The nickname is Khertan, at this channel |
| 14:50.48 | Myrtti | *squeak* *squeak* |
| 14:51.08 | Myrtti | a bit spotty reception, must be because I sneezed on it |
| 14:51.15 | RST38h | jeremiah: For C/C++ autobuilder users, I guess it is lardman, qwerty12, Stskeeps |
| 14:51.25 | Stskeeps | i have never touched autobuilder. :P |
| 14:51.34 | thopiekar | Myrtti: ;D |
| 14:51.48 | jeremiah_ | RST38h:ah, okay. |
| 14:51.58 | RST38h | Ok, scratch Sts out =) |
| 14:52.11 | *** join/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@190.2.205.208) |
| 14:52.32 | RST38h | jeremiah: two more packaging related issues: |
| 14:52.57 | RST38h | jeremiah: 1) installing stuff into ~ and 2) installing data to /dev/mmc* |
| 14:53.06 | RST38h | sorry/ media/mmc* |
| 14:53.09 | jeremiah_ | woodong50: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_roadmap/Fremantle |
| 14:53.36 | jeremiah_ | RST38h: Hmm, installing into ~/ should not be hard. |
| 14:53.49 | RST38h | jeremiah: #1 has no decent solution right now, you have to resort to referring to /home/user directly but (fortunately) we have only got one user :) |
| 14:54.38 | RST38h | jeremiah: #2 is usually done with one or another hack, but it is usually not pretty and a lot of packagers do not do it |
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| 14:54.43 | jeremiah_ | RST38h: So you mean ~ does not work as an alias for /home/user? |
| 14:55.13 | RST38h | jeremiah: if you use ~ in the Makefile of a deb package, it causes some problems |
| 14:55.29 | RST38h | jeremiah: I don't remember what exact problems, but it does not work |
| 14:56.29 | RST38h | jeremiah: about #2: N8x0 / device is only 256MB in size and with some packages easily exceeding 10MB it gets filled up very very quickly |
| 14:57.14 | RST38h | jeremiah: So, a semistandard method of offloading ALL non-executable stuff to an mmc is a must (and packagers SHOULD use it) |
| 14:57.23 | jeremiah_ | Interesting. |
| 14:58.10 | jeremiah_ | An An mmc is a multi media card? |
| 14:58.14 | RST38h | Yes |
| 14:58.37 | RST38h | There are two MMCs, N800 has them both external, N810 has a 2GB /media/mmc2 soldered to the board |
| 14:58.57 | jeremiah_ | Yeah. I think better documentation around that (in fact both those issues) would help. |
| 14:59.04 | pupnik | big packages like games can usually have their data reside on mmc |
| 14:59.06 | RST38h | My guess is that mmc2 should be the default data location, with an option to select mmc1 |
| 14:59.20 | jeremiah_ | I can vaguely recall that ~ is significant to debian packages so that is unlikely to get fixed. |
| 14:59.21 | rm_you | Myrtti: I played around with KnitML a bit, tried to understand that, somewhat failed because the only stitch I know is like... k2p2 and k2tog >_> had my GF try to explain others to me but failed |
| 14:59.32 | RST38h | jeremiah: remember that we build packages in scratchbox |
| 14:59.59 | RST38h | jeremiah: and scratchbox is somewhat of a schizo, sometimes it behaves like guest, other times like host |
| 15:00.26 | jeremiah_ | RST38h: Okay. I need to do more work in Scratchbox to understand the environment better |
| 15:00.37 | RST38h | jeremiah: and sb2 too :) |
| 15:00.52 | jeremiah_ | So right now we have _two_ development environments? |
| 15:00.56 | RST38h | Yes. |
| 15:00.57 | jeremiah_ | Both supported? |
| 15:01.05 | qwerty12_N800 | anybody using irssi from -devel btw? want to see if i can promote it (i'm not an irssi 'xpert & only did basic testing). |
| 15:01.10 | RST38h | SB2 is a "beta" but it is supported if you ask right people nicely |
| 15:01.25 | jeremiah_ | I see. |
| 15:01.30 | RST38h | SB2 is by far saner, but still on the clinical side |
| 15:01.38 | jeremiah_ | Sheesh, things are a bit complicated. |
| 15:01.47 | RST38h | unfortunately. |
| 15:02.08 | jeremiah_ | Just like real life. :) |
| 15:02.17 | RST38h | actually, more complicated |
| 15:02.23 | jeremiah_ | heh |
| 15:02.26 | jeremiah_ | true |
| 15:02.29 | RST38h | in real life, we would just have a cross compiler toolchain |
| 15:03.26 | RST38h | Like I have for SigmaTel or ICNexus platforms |
| 15:03.53 | Jaffa | scrollsback a bit - packages shouldn't be installing into ~ (or /home/user) any more than they should on Ubuntu or Debian (i.e. not at all) |
| 15:04.08 | Jaffa | 's done C stuff with autobuilder (e.g. vim package from mud-builder) |
| 15:04.51 | RST38h | Jaffa: There are cases when they should. I need to create a directory to save app state for example |
| 15:05.10 | Jaffa | RST38h: No, you still shouldn't do that on install. Your app should create the dir if necessary when saving the state |
| 15:05.17 | jeremiah_ | Shouldn't that kind of thing go into /var/cache? Or some such? |
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| 15:05.27 | RST38h | Jaffa: I need to place some initial state files there |
| 15:05.28 | *** part/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@190.2.205.208) |
| 15:06.03 | Jaffa | RST38h: and, again, initial state files shouldn't be in /home/user - this'd all break horribly if your app was used on a multi user system (e.g. Mer at some point, perhaps - or maybe even Maemo) |
| 15:06.20 | jeremiah_ | reads his dead tree version of Maemo Packaging policy |
| 15:06.30 | RST38h | Jaffa: maybe you are right, I have to rethink it |
| 15:06.41 | RST38h | Jaffa: it will require some internal changes in the app though |
| 15:06.44 | Jaffa | RST38h: if it's single user stuff, and the state needs to be held - then as jeremiah_ says, use /var/cache or /usr/share or something |
| 15:06.51 | RST38h | Yea |
| 15:06.54 | Jaffa | RST38h: no doubt - it sounds a little shonky at the moment ;-) |
| 15:07.26 | Jaffa | 's been doing code reviews all morning, and debugging a Hibernate weirdity. Probably not the most forgiving of architectural hiccups at the moment :) |
| 15:07.44 | lcuk2 | i tohught you did not maintain anything statewise outside of ~ |
| 15:07.44 | RST38h | eek |
| 15:07.46 | Sargun_Screen | Jaffa: fun stuff. :-P |
| 15:08.11 | RST38h | lcuk: ~/.ati85/*.RAM =) |
| 15:08.27 | lcuk2 | jeremiah_, how do you follow links with these "dead tree" documents? |
| 15:08.43 | Jaffa | Sargun_Screen: I *think* it might be a Hibernate bug: it works on a version of our database with a single id column, but not on a composite key version. |
| 15:09.09 | lcuk2 | jeremiah_, get yourself a NIT and read from there |
| 15:09.17 | jeremiah_ | lcuk2: It is exceedingly painful. :P |
| 15:09.31 | jeremiah_ | I press the link until my fingers bleed. |
| 15:09.35 | jeremiah_ | Then give up. |
| 15:09.42 | Sargun_Screen | Jaffa: hibernation is a hack. |
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| 15:09.54 | Jaffa | Sargun_Screen: This is hibernate.org, not Linux hibernate FWIW |
| 15:10.02 | jeremiah_ | The packaging policy says; |
| 15:10.10 | pupnik | I think it will change... i don't think it will disappear entirely. |
| 15:10.19 | jeremiah_ | Section 9, 9.1 File system Hierarchy |
| 15:10.27 | Jaffa | jeremiah_: Kinda like http://www.magnetnerd.com/Neodymium%20Magnets/Dirks%20Accident.htm (not for the squeamish - or those afraid of magenets) |
| 15:10.38 | jeremiah_ | "TODO: This section has not been written yet." |
| 15:10.38 | Sargun_Screen | Jaffa: any kind of hibernation. :-) |
| 15:11.28 | Sargun_Screen | Jaffa: i saw that last night, scary stuff. |
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| 15:11.56 | jeremiah_ | Jaffa: That was nasty! |
| 15:12.14 | jeremiah_ | Jaffa: Now I scared of magnets. |
| 15:12.42 | qwerty12_N800 | Jaffa: I stole one of those magnets when I took an old HD apart :) |
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| 15:15.23 | RST38h | jeremiah: You should really ask Nokia to give you a personal NIT |
| 15:15.42 | RST38h | jeremiah: It makes reading stuff on the go way easier |
| 15:15.53 | lcuk2 | jaffa, is that the guy who crushed his index finger? |
| 15:16.11 | lcuk2 | or the one who tried reading maemo app policy :P |
| 15:17.07 | Jaffa | lcuk2: the former :) |
| 15:17.57 | lcuk2 | i saw that, those neobomdium (spelling way off i know) magnets are lethal, after reading that i went reading up on the consequences of ingesting 1 or more of them |
| 15:18.26 | lcuk2 | its not something you want to do |
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| 15:22.46 | ezadkiel_mB | scratchbox.org down? |
| 15:23.13 | Jaffa | ezadkiel_mB: apparently |
| 15:23.35 | ezadkiel_mB | Jaffa: thanks |
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| 15:29.05 | jeremiah_ | RST38h: I did ask for one, they said it is in the mail. :) |
| 15:29.59 | jeremiah_ | I will buy one myself it does not turn up soon though. |
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| 15:44.41 | michael3 | How can I run avahi-daemon in the scratchbox? [sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: /etc/default] > fakeroot avahi-daemon -D |
| 15:44.41 | michael3 | This program is intended to be run as root. |
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| 16:22.05 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog |
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| 16:44.03 | slonopotamus | woot! launched lxde on gentoo today |
| 16:44.56 | slonopotamus | that's cool :) virtual kb + browser and bye-bye, hildon :) |
| 16:48.33 | Corsac | wow |
| 16:48.35 | Corsac | http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/02/27/vmware-mvp-weds-windows-ce-and-android-in-unholy-matrimony-on-du/ |
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| 16:54.55 | lcuk2 | RST38h, you mentioned a while ago you have some apps on s60, just looking through now, and whilst theres the brainfsck of c++ to wade through im not seeing anything technical that says i cant move liqbase over to it. theres full screen interaction stuff available from what i can see |
| 16:56.42 | pupnik | Rebel Moon! |
| 16:56.50 | lcuk2 | thats no moon! |
| 17:01.46 | *** part/#maemo smyows (n=smyows@200.206.88.188) |
| 17:02.23 | Stskeeps | Jaffa: multiple devices may make sense though, and different storage sizes |
| 17:02.35 | Proteous | it's like a thousand voices cried out, then were silenced |
| 17:02.46 | Stskeeps | i mean, we do clearly see phone stuff, but they also said next tablet is 3g-only :P |
| 17:02.59 | Stskeeps | (and hey, i'd love choice. :P) |
| 17:04.21 | lcuk2 | do i remember rightly about the multiple form factors. |
| 17:04.32 | lcuk2 | wasnt it something ragnar said when discussing the dpad |
| 17:04.58 | Proteous | either you choose to be at your desk on time from now on, or you choose to find yourself another job |
| 17:05.07 | Proteous | do I make myself clear Mr. Anderson? |
| 17:05.38 | Stskeeps | Proteous: damnit, why do you have to complain when i come into work in boxers only on casual friday. :P |
| 17:05.46 | Proteous | heh |
| 17:05.54 | Jaffa | Stskeeps: where did they say next tablet is 3G only? Multiple storage sizes I can believe, but I have difficulty believing in different form factors |
| 17:06.07 | Proteous | closes his eyes and wishes as hard as he can for a dpad that can be used for games |
| 17:06.24 | qwerty12 | Proteous, Yes, Mr. Rhineheart. Perfectly clear. |
| 17:06.33 | Stskeeps | Jaffa: hmm, thought it was on slides from summit. i may be wrong. |
| 17:06.34 | Jaffa | They're certainly ensuring that in future Nokia will be able to have multiple Maemo devices in various form factors; I just don't think it's yet (although I wait to be pleasantly surprised) |
| 17:06.45 | Stskeeps | but they have emphasized hsdpa -data- often, i think :P |
| 17:06.55 | Proteous | Thomas Anderson? |
| 17:06.55 | *** join/#maemo woglinde (i=woglinde@e178127097.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:07.01 | Jaffa | Stskeeps: They've only said positives about it having HSPA data. They're never ruled anything else out |
| 17:07.08 | woglinde | re |
| 17:07.24 | qwerty12 | Proteous, Neo! Man, get with it! :P |
| 17:07.34 | Proteous | no no no, that's the next line, the fedex guy |
| 17:07.43 | Proteous | you are suppose to say, Yeah, that's me |
| 17:07.46 | Jaffa | Stskeeps: I can't reconcile what we've seen about the phone stuff with a decent tabletesque form factor; unless it's reliant on BT headsets (and we know we're getting A2DP and AVRCP) |
| 17:07.50 | Proteous | then I say, have a nice day |
| 17:07.56 | qwerty12 | Hello, Neo. Do you know who this is? |
| 17:08.06 | Proteous | !!! morphius? |
| 17:08.14 | qwerty12 | Yes. |
| 17:08.30 | Proteous | I don't remember the next part well enough :P |
| 17:08.40 | Stskeeps | Jaffa: on the other hand, telephony-maemo in bluez.. |
| 17:08.46 | qwerty12 | Proteous, so don't I... :P |
| 17:09.17 | Proteous | When I tell you go to the end of the row, to the door at the end of the hall |
| 17:09.19 | Proteous | NOW |
| 17:09.31 | Proteous | aaaanyway |
| 17:10.34 | lcuk2 | jaffa, we have multiple form factors now, and as brother and sister the 800/810 are, they are totally different in terms of usability and expectations from users |
| 17:10.48 | Proteous | yeah, the 810 is way better |
| 17:10.59 | Jaffa | Stskeeps: indeed |
| 17:11.01 | Proteous | I mean, who wouldn't want a keyboard |
| 17:11.06 | lcuk2 | the keyboard is the principle differentiator for these devices |
| 17:11.10 | Proteous | WHO WOULDN'T I ASK YOU!! |
| 17:11.11 | Proteous | WHO |
| 17:11.12 | slonopotamus | Stskeeps, did you have ugly touchscreen behaviour in lxde? |
| 17:11.19 | Jaffa | lcuk2: The N810 replaced the N800. Nokia never intended them to be complimentary devices on sale at the same time. |
| 17:11.23 | Myrtti | I wouldn't want a keyboard. |
| 17:11.24 | lcuk2 | Proteous, you can get by without a keyboard if the touchscreen is efficient enough |
| 17:11.33 | Stskeeps | slonopotamus: hmm? |
| 17:11.33 | Proteous | get by, GET BY |
| 17:11.38 | Myrtti | I bought specifically n800 because it doesn't have a keyboard. |
| 17:11.39 | Proteous | you can have your "get by" |
| 17:11.47 | Jaffa | N810W and N810 are the first two Maemo devices in production at the same time properly |
| 17:11.47 | Proteous | heh |
| 17:12.06 | slonopotamus | Stskeeps, it doesn't handle mouse_up well |
| 17:12.07 | lcuk2 | Myrtti, a lot are fine without it (iphone mindset) but an awful lot cant live without em |
| 17:12.09 | Myrtti | feels unloved |
| 17:12.11 | Proteous | most people buy the n800 for the two mem card slots |
| 17:12.28 | Proteous | other then that it's just a larger version of the 810 |
| 17:12.29 | lcuk2 | slonopotamus, mouse up from the tablets gets lost occasionally if the cpu is busy (at least in maemo) |
| 17:12.50 | Proteous | with a worse screen |
| 17:12.52 | Myrtti | Proteous: n810 doesn't have the correct keyboard layout, so I don't want to pay for a wrong one |
| 17:13.00 | lcuk2 | Myrtti, why unloved? |
| 17:13.12 | Stskeeps | dislikes the n810 keyboard too personally |
| 17:13.29 | Proteous | I don't think it's amazing, but I like it better then the fricking onscreen one |
| 17:13.38 | Myrtti | lcuk2: because Proteous tells me I'm a freak! *snif* |
| 17:13.43 | Proteous | heh |
| 17:13.50 | slonopotamus | Stskeeps, tapping once counnts as mouce_down, not down + up |
| 17:13.58 | Proteous | I wouldn't listen to anything I say |
| 17:14.02 | lcuk2 | i prefer the keyboard on 810 no matter how imperfect it is, its STILL better than my old zx81 or rubber keyed spectrum! |
| 17:14.12 | Myrtti | pft. |
| 17:14.12 | Proteous | hah |
| 17:14.18 | woglinde | luck hahahaaaa |
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| 17:15.06 | Stskeeps | slonopotamus: ah, no clue. you have our input-tslib? |
| 17:15.12 | Proteous | best thumb keyboard ever was on my HP 48gx |
| 17:15.30 | slonopotamus | argh |
| 17:15.53 | slonopotamus | Stskeeps, i used one from gentoo repo |
| 17:16.06 | slonopotamus | Stskeeps, good catch |
| 17:16.40 | slonopotamus | Stskeeps, it's patched too? |
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| 17:22.06 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog |
| 17:22.29 | slonopotamus | Stskeeps, thanks for support :) |
| 17:22.56 | slonopotamus | found it: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=501139 |
| 17:24.02 | slonopotamus | ah. maybe just disable variance module? does it do anything useful? |
| 17:24.15 | Stskeeps | no clue |
| 17:24.21 | Stskeeps | the patch i have works |
| 17:25.24 | slonopotamus | k. |
| 17:26.11 | slonopotamus | next question. udev times out with bluez-utils installed and then barfs something about hci0. |
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| 18:06.33 | lcuk2 | http://www.androidauthority.com/index.php/2009/02/20/video-of-texas-instruments-zoom-with-omap3-processor/ i want one of those! |
| 18:08.43 | Jaffa | lcuk2: Ref. board for the RX-51? ;-) |
| 18:09.17 | florian | lcuk: these are cute yes... well, the price could be worse. |
| 18:09.34 | lcuk | $1000-$1500 technically not *that* bad lol |
| 18:10.01 | *** join/#maemo alecrim (n=alecrim@189.2.128.130) |
| 18:10.12 | florian | lcuk: hum well... its not really a consumer device |
| 18:10.27 | lcuk | florian, dont expect it to be, hows your beagle coming on? |
| 18:10.27 | Jaffa | Beer o'clock |
| 18:10.31 | lcuk | mmmmmmm beer |
| 18:11.56 | florian | lcuk: yes pretty good - except of the fact that i lack the time to do the interesting things with it I have in mind |
| 18:12.20 | lcuk | lol i wouldv jumped on one by now if it was all nicely built like that ref board ^ |
| 18:12.41 | lcuk | i too would be sat there staring at a bare circuit board |
| 18:13.07 | florian | :) |
| 18:17.02 | lcuk | jaffa, have you put any thoughts to your movie converter recently. is there anything you would liek it to do but cant so far, or things you think might become possible with hspa access etc |
| 18:19.59 | Jaffa | lcuk: There's apparently a bug in it relating to subtitles; it probably could improve DVD ripping by trying to identify episode names/movie names by default (somehow); and it'll need a rename if they're not "tablets"; but the encoding side of it seems pretty feature complete - apart from a nice GUI |
| 18:20.20 | Jaffa | lcuk: you offering to code stuff, or give me freebies? ;-) |
| 18:20.46 | lcuk | im just pondering about desktop interaction and your app touches on it :) |
| 18:21.16 | lcuk | obviously mud builder is the other one that rolls around often ;) but for other reasons |
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| 18:22.13 | Jaffa | lcuk: some thumbnail & metadate generation for liq* could work |
| 18:22.40 | lcuk | entirely possible with tracker underneath, thats its prime function isnt it |
| 18:23.12 | lcuk | though i personally dont like media libraries :D |
| 18:23.19 | *** join/#maemo fab (n=bellet@bellet.info) |
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| 18:27.32 | lcuk | jaffa, i hope what im writing will work, so far its going kinda smoothly, and i think im over my biggest humps, but the biggest challenges lie ahead.. |
| 18:30.05 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=valerio@bl5-198-84.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 18:30.05 | DavidePalm | Would it be difficult to install the os so it would boot from one of the cards? to have more space for programs? or is it possible to force programs to install on the sd card? |
| 18:30.11 | Jaffa | :) |
| 18:30.19 | qwerty12 | ~boot-sd |
| 18:30.20 | infobot | i heard boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card |
| 18:30.20 | Jaffa | DavidePalm: see... |
| 18:30.25 | Jaffa | ta |
| 18:30.32 | DavidePalm | thx |
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| 18:30.59 | straind | Anybody have a kismet package for the 770? |
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| 18:35.03 | DavidePalm | Jaffa To improve performance (note, this is dependent on the quality of your flash card). |
| 18:35.10 | *** part/#maemo ShutteR77 (n=Shutter@81.27.57.1) |
| 18:35.15 | DavidePalm | what does that mean? |
| 18:35.39 | DavidePalm | what sd card is better than the flash memory? |
| 18:36.23 | DavidePalm | how fast does the card have to be? |
| 18:39.05 | *** join/#maemo woglinde (i=woglinde@e179038182.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:39.23 | DavidePalm | anyone? |
| 18:40.37 | lcuk | dunno DavidePalm just get the fastest you can (class 6?) |
| 18:41.06 | lcuk | i have some crappy one here but barely notice speed problem in internal or mmc |
| 18:41.57 | *** join/#maemo madha1 (n=Administ@122.172.61.21) |
| 18:42.11 | DavidePalm | ok |
| 18:42.14 | DavidePalm | thx |
| 18:42.44 | *** join/#maemo madha2 (n=Administ@122.172.63.238) |
| 18:44.16 | lcuk | is it possible to make a complete clone of self? |
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| 18:46.22 | zenvoid | DavidePalm: the filesystem on the internal memory (jffs2) is compressed, so it may be actually faster and take less CPU to run from an external card with a uncompressed fs like ext3 |
| 18:46.44 | zenvoid | but anyways difference is small, at least with my card |
| 18:47.01 | lcuk | zenvoid, o_O didnt realise. so its runtime compression when writing to ~ ? |
| 18:47.46 | DavidePalm | zenvoid, i see, does following that guide create an uncompressed file system automatically? |
| 18:48.37 | zenvoid | lcuk: yes, jffs compression and decompression is handled transparently by the kernel |
| 18:48.50 | zenvoid | each time you write or read |
| 18:48.52 | lcuk | didnt know |
| 18:49.03 | zenvoid | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFFS2 |
| 18:49.30 | lcuk | my linux foo is lacking :) im happier messing with pixels |
| 18:49.41 | zenvoid | :D |
| 18:50.05 | lcuk | i wonder then how much cpu that involves and what i could use it for instead |
| 18:50.40 | zenvoid | no idea... I always run from sd card |
| 18:50.50 | Stskeeps | wonders if ming387 is trying to get someone fired, heh |
| 18:51.05 | lcuk | all my os is in internal and the dev headers and stuff are there |
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| 18:53.25 | neatojones | I've been wondering the same thing. He can't seem to get the hint. |
| 18:53.47 | zenvoid | DavidePalm: yes, following that guide you will create an ext2 filesystem, so it will be uncompressed |
| 18:54.03 | DavidePalm | kk |
| 18:54.07 | DavidePalm | thx |
| 18:54.08 | zenvoid | in fact, I think that jffs2 can't be used in the sd card |
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| 18:55.31 | Stskeeps | i wouldn't mind compression once in a while |
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| 18:56.51 | neatojones | am I right about this: Mer (so far) uses the same kernel as Maemo, so changes to the Maemo kernel affect my Mer distro too? |
| 18:57.00 | Stskeeps | yes |
| 18:57.31 | neatojones | So high speed kernel would make Mer high speed too, right? |
| 18:57.41 | Stskeeps | yes |
| 18:57.45 | neatojones | thanks |
| 18:57.50 | Stskeeps | zenvoid: remember the size of the left-hand icons btw? |
| 18:57.57 | Stskeeps | 48x48? |
| 18:58.29 | zenvoid | don't remember :P |
| 18:59.16 | qwerty12_N800 | app menu is 64x64, menu you get when pressing home is 48x48 & task switcher on side is 26x26 |
| 18:59.24 | Stskeeps | k |
| 18:59.34 | neatojones | Stskeeps: Things were running too well on my Mer. Figure it's time to start over and try to ruin it all over again. |
| 19:00.18 | Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: as in the icons in the left bar are 26x26? :P |
| 19:00.25 | qwerty12_N800 | yes |
| 19:00.35 | lcuk | curses icon sizes |
| 19:00.37 | Stskeeps | k |
| 19:00.43 | zenvoid | I remember that some icons are not square, 64x54, I think, anybody knows? |
| 19:00.46 | neatojones | ...figure nothing will torch it quicker than unstable writing to my card. |
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| 19:01.06 | Stskeeps | neatojones: meh, good old fashioned FS corruption never hurt anyone |
| 19:01.07 | *** join/#maemo TimRiker (i=timr@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker) |
| 19:01.13 | Stskeeps | except for nuclear power plants, of cours |
| 19:01.58 | neatojones | Got a friend who is an engineer for one in Arizona. Makes $500k plus. |
| 19:02.14 | neatojones | Says they spends millions on researching the replacement of a simple push button. |
| 19:02.21 | lcuk | yes |
| 19:02.26 | lcuk | and thank god they do |
| 19:02.39 | lcuk | http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=10455 |
| 19:02.51 | Stskeeps | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:03.16 | Stskeeps | (read: i really should stop reading slashdot.) |
| 19:03.43 | lcuk | i can release an open source visual basic project |
| 19:03.52 | lcuk | that blends the two |
| 19:04.02 | lcuk | i dunno what license i would need cos of the underlying libs |
| 19:05.00 | neatojones | lcuk: I'd say lunch gets a PL7 |
| 19:05.11 | ShutteR77 | Hello, friends! Today I want show you some my icons for Mer. Here you are - http://tinyurl.com/cy5v92 - apps icon, http://tinyurl.com/an6bxa - chat icon, http://tinyurl.com/cwe7yq - web icon. Wait for your criticism or additions. |
| 19:05.18 | lcuk | lol |
| 19:06.04 | *** join/#maemo RST38h (i=marat@trantor.komkon.org) |
| 19:06.12 | lcuk | ShutteR77, people commonly put the icons in context and at expected scale ;) i love having things visible from orbit on the tablet, but when the messenger head is larger than my own it scares me :P |
| 19:06.41 | lcuk | likes the first one though |
| 19:07.00 | neatojones | I like them, but I don't think the web icon is intuitive. |
| 19:07.07 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/27/nokia-laptop-a-snapdragon-or-atom-based-netbook/ Snapdragon or Atom. I would've figured on an OMAP3640 myself. |
| 19:07.43 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: i want a Z80 Nokia tablet. |
| 19:07.43 | lcuk | neatojones, reminds me of boobies, what else is the web for? |
| 19:08.03 | ShutteR77 | Sorry for my mistake. |
| 19:08.03 | GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, what's new with XChat? |
| 19:08.36 | neatojones | lol |
| 19:09.02 | lcuk | ShutteR77, not a mistake, just show em as we will see them on the tablet and people will marvel at your smooth lines :D |
| 19:09.03 | neatojones | I want a cortex A9 in my next tablet... |
| 19:09.33 | GeneralAntilles | neatojones, likely . . . in 2010 or 2011. |
| 19:09.49 | qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles: nothing much, python security fix, locales consolidated into one package & a patch where you press dpad enter in the network list to connect (and edit the network name in the edit dialog) |
| 19:09.56 | ShutteR77 | ok |
| 19:10.06 | neatojones | less than a year away. ;) At the rate maemo 5 is coming (I'm joking people...) |
| 19:10.42 | GeneralAntilles | neatojones, early 2010 being when samples ship in volume to OEMs. |
| 19:10.52 | lcuk | neatojones, its not just maemo5. i still blame the whole worlds problems on the writers strike |
| 19:11.04 | neatojones | stupid writers... |
| 19:11.15 | neatojones | dang hollywood |
| 19:11.21 | neatojones | we need more bollywood |
| 19:12.08 | neatojones | ShutteR77: Could you put a watermark in the back of the globe of continent like shapes? |
| 19:12.44 | neatojones | Quit destroying my dreams GeneralAntilles |
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| 19:13.57 | lcuk | goes to asda since no reliable human cloning tech appeared |
| 19:13.57 | ShutteR77 | neatojones yes I can, but not now, tomorrow i will do, now i have some tasks, sorry. |
| 19:13.59 | *** part/#maemo ShutteR77 (n=Shutter@81.27.57.1) |
| 19:14.18 | neatojones | no prob. It was just a thought. You don't ever HAVE* to do it. |
| 19:16.07 | neatojones | One thing is certain. The next tablet will hopefully be better put together than my new Nokia phone. I got it a month ago and I"m holding it together with electric tape. |
| 19:16.25 | neatojones | ...wait. 2 months ago. |
| 19:16.29 | neatojones | it's almost March |
| 19:16.41 | Stskeeps | my n800 has taken endless beatings |
| 19:16.45 | Stskeeps | it still loves me |
| 19:17.26 | neatojones | My N810 is doing pretty well too. But, getting a newer device that is put together sloppily still scares me. |
| 19:17.30 | qwerty12_N800 | has smacked his N800 to the wall and has it smacked against a concrete floor. Still alive. |
| 19:18.40 | neatojones | has a dog that trips on the N810 power supply and send the device flying across the room. (You'd think he'd learn to put it in a better place). |
| 19:19.37 | neatojones | brb...gotta run for some documents |
| 19:23.11 | *** join/#maemo efleury (n=fleury@200.184.118.130) |
| 19:27.25 | *** join/#maemo alehorst1 (n=alehorst@189.26.32.104.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
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| 19:29.25 | AndrewFBlack | Well after last night I'm happy I didn't get ride of my windows home server I was able to fix me wiping the windows partiton on my desktop |
| 19:31.15 | *** join/#maemo greentux (n=lemke@BAA317d.baa.pppool.de) |
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| 19:38.57 | zchydem | QTablet running hildon apps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAwmW6_G0TM&feature=channel_page |
| 19:39.55 | RST38h | The following packages will be REMOVED: |
| 19:39.55 | RST38h | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:39.55 | RST38h | The following packages will be upgraded: |
| 19:39.55 | RST38h | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:40.08 | RST38h | Is it ok to remove osso-software-version-rx44? |
| 19:40.35 | qwerty12_N800 | install the o-s-v unlocked version instead |
| 19:40.50 | qwerty12_N800 | ~ssu |
| 19:40.50 | infobot | [ssu] http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU |
| 19:41.35 | RST38h | ? |
| 19:41.50 | GeneralAntilles | apt-get install osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked |
| 19:42.23 | qwerty12_N800 | with the unlocked version, you can install the newer version of libglade w/out removing o-s-v |
| 19:42.42 | hahlo | why it is locked? |
| 19:43.07 | RST38h | should I confirm removal of the locked version though? |
| 19:43.17 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@a88-114-221-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:43.35 | qwerty12_N800 | nah, install the unlocked version first and then you can upgrade as normal |
| 19:43.39 | RST38h | ok |
| 19:43.59 | RST38h | thanks =) |
| 19:44.58 | *** join/#maemo punk-ass (n=punkass@unaffiliated/punkass) |
| 19:45.11 | RST38h | it does not let me install the unlocked version |
| 19:45.25 | RST38h | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:45.25 | RST38h | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:45.46 | qwerty12_N800 | odd, osso-software-version-variant was for chinook |
| 19:45.55 | RST38h | hmmm |
| 19:46.24 | terbo | 1 |
| 19:48.18 | GeneralAntilles | hahlo, because Nokia only tests with a specific set of package versions. |
| 19:48.39 | hahlo | ah, ok |
| 19:48.47 | GeneralAntilles | Careless upgrades have the potential to cause instability and aren't supported. |
| 19:49.28 | GeneralAntilles | wonders if karma is going to be fixed in time for the election. . . . |
| 19:49.52 | GeneralAntilles | Also: mad props to the first person to nominate. |
| 19:50.24 | pupnik | i am enjoying, in a perverse way, how few other people have picked up games porting in my absence |
| 19:52.04 | GeneralAntilles | Something makes me think it'll pick up for the next tablet. |
| 19:56.18 | *** join/#maemo skibur (i=1000@12.197.205.184) |
| 19:59.32 | RST38h | pupnik: even fewer are porting non-game apps |
| 19:59.56 | RST38h | kinda got his wish of linuxdc++ port, but it is unusable =( |
| 20:01.44 | pupnik | dc++? |
| 20:01.45 | *** join/#maemo jpuderer (n=jpuderer@69-196-188-149.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 20:04.50 | mikkov_ | qwerty12, anyway to get rid of scroll bars in zenity? http://pastebin.com/ma5cabfd |
| 20:07.13 | qwerty12_N800 | mikkov_: you can set the size of the dialog, let me find how I did it |
| 20:08.04 | mikkov_ | ah, --width=WIDTH --height=HEIGHT |
| 20:08.27 | mikkov_ | and --title |
| 20:08.51 | RST38h | pupnik: it is a p2p app |
| 20:09.06 | RST38h | pupnik: used inside the community network here |
| 20:09.19 | pupnik | ah ty |
| 20:12.40 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (n=murrayc@host-88-217-185-158.customer.m-online.net) |
| 20:13.04 | mikkov_ | qwerty12, any way to get rid of "Cancel" button? :) |
| 20:13.30 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (n=magao@213.254.111.194.static.user.ono.com) |
| 20:14.08 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (n=magao@213.254.111.194.static.user.ono.com) |
| 20:15.05 | qwerty12_N800 | mikkov_: Don't think so :(, when you press it, it returns " " so when I was using it, I added an if statement that runs zenity again when pressed :/ |
| 20:24.57 | *** join/#maemo birunko (n=birunko@200.184.118.130) |
| 20:26.23 | woglinde | alas gcc-4.4 has to come quick |
| 20:26.33 | woglinde | and for fremantle too |
| 20:29.36 | qwerty12_N800 | mikkov_: I'll try and add an option to remove the button tomorrow |
| 20:29.55 | woglinde | ah nice its at stage 3 |
| 20:30.18 | woglinde | I hope this means it will come in the next 2 months |
| 20:30.46 | *** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@147.17.168.202-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 20:32.15 | mikkov_ | option to remove cancel button seems to be on todo list at http://live.gnome.org/Zenity, send patches there :) |
| 20:33.45 | qwerty12_N800 | You'd have thought they'd have thought of this already :) |
| 20:34.37 | `0660 | must be a trap |
| 20:34.50 | `0660 | they try to lure new developers by omission of trivial features |
| 20:35.20 | *** join/#maemo dlmarti (n=David@dsl092-055-171.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:45.25 | pupnik | we should petition Obama to stimulate tablet sales |
| 20:45.30 | pupnik | sorry, lame comment |
| 20:47.50 | `0660 | i think we should wait for the tablet to be released first :) |
| 20:48.20 | Jaffa | s/tablet/something-not-a-tablet/ |
| 20:48.43 | qwerty12_N800 | a bong? |
| 20:48.46 | ShadowJK | woglinde, are you implying a gcc point-0 release will be usable for arm? |
| 20:49.39 | woglinde | ShadowJK hm I think so |
| 20:49.44 | woglinde | after saw the commits |
| 20:49.55 | woglinde | and it will help a lot in terms of atomic ops |
| 20:50.33 | *** join/#maemo zs (n=zs@87-205-132-199.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 20:50.56 | GeneralAntilles | Clearly it's tuna melt time. |
| 20:56.11 | mikkov_ | qwerty12_N800, actually I found use for that Cancel button |
| 20:58.40 | qwerty12_N800 | if `zenity whatever` = " "; then run-standalone.sh dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.Notifications /org/freedesktop/Notifications org.freedesktop.Notifications.SystemNoteInfoprint string:'rm -rf'ing /' :) |
| 21:01.45 | mikkov_ | hmm, I may just do that ;) |
| 21:02.40 | qwerty12_N800 | then watch as your product gets only one star ;P |
| 21:05.56 | mikkov_ | cancel will refresh list of locations. User has a chance to insert memory card in the middle of install process |
| 21:06.46 | mikkov_ | (of course it will not be told in dialog :) |
| 21:08.05 | mikkov_ | but if I could change the text in buttons.. |
| 21:09.06 | qwerty12_N800 | yeah... I have no idea what --cancel-label seems to do - at least "Cancel" still says "Cancel"... |
| 21:10.57 | mikkov_ | it seems to be only for --question |
| 21:12.42 | qwerty12_N800 | You may be able to ask Bundyo for his gxmessage maemoized port & package for extras - that lets you set button text |
| 21:13.10 | qwerty12_N800 | (looking @ http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18264) |
| 21:13.55 | *** join/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@190.2.205.208) |
| 21:16.35 | *** join/#maemo b-man (n=b-man@pool-71-124-38-74.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 21:18.17 | rm_you | GeneralAntilles: it's always tuna melt time :) |
| 21:21.31 | *** join/#maemo cheng_99 (n=chengluo@5ad5fac1.bb.sky.com) |
| 21:21.45 | RST38h | Arsonists Torch Berlin Porsches, BMWs on Economic Woe! |
| 21:22.05 | rm_you | that a headline? |
| 21:22.11 | RST38h | yea |
| 21:22.16 | rm_you | crazy |
| 21:22.32 | RST38h | Interesting method to raise demand for new cars |
| 21:22.36 | qwerty12_N800 | meh, should have had a spot of joyridin' in 'em |
| 21:22.52 | cheng_99 | nickserv |
| 21:22.53 | RST38h | qwerty: They are real revolutionaries, not selfish! =) |
| 21:23.02 | rm_you | which is worse, Arson or Grand Theft Auto? >_> |
| 21:23.29 | cheng_99 | hi, does anyone know how to set configure option to use gstreamer instead of glib? |
| 21:23.40 | cheng_99 | at sofia-sip-cli |
| 21:23.54 | qwerty12_N800 | in gta, you can use molotovs so you get best of both worlds :) |
| 21:25.46 | cheng_99 | hello, anyone knows sofsip-cli? |
| 21:26.54 | qwerty12_N800 | correct me if i'm wrong, but don't glib & gstreamer provide *totally* different things |
| 21:27.07 | GeneralAntilles | Ahaha http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=267668&postcount=415 |
| 21:28.41 | RST38h | General: Oh YESSSS |
| 21:31.54 | cheng_99 | that's what i thought. but if you read the README here http://sofia-sip.org/repos/sofsip-cli/README, it can use gstreamer, but i don't know how to configure it through configure |
| 21:32.29 | *** join/#maemo cjdavis (n=cjdavis@cpe-71-67-99-208.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 21:32.32 | *** join/#maemo zakkm (n=zak@CPE0013f7b6e1a2-CM0013f7b6e19e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 21:32.35 | qwerty12_N800 | ./configure --help | grep -i gstreamer? |
| 21:32.44 | cheng_99 | one more question, it the maemo repository working alright now? i cannot use my apt-get update now |
| 21:33.13 | zakkm | b-man: is there any other solution to ubuntu besides your long guide? |
| 21:33.35 | b-man | i'm working on an installer ;) |
| 21:33.36 | lcuk | zakkm, you can request a cd from canonical |
| 21:33.44 | jeremiah_ | cheng_99: There were some scratchbox.org outages earlier, but that should be up now. |
| 21:33.49 | lcuk | or did you mean on the desktop |
| 21:33.52 | zakkm | i meant ubuntu on nokia, not desktop |
| 21:33.52 | lcuk | tablet |
| 21:33.58 | zakkm | i have for desktop |
| 21:34.12 | lcuk | jeremiah_, im gonna tell your wife you are ignoring her and doin work stuff :P |
| 21:34.17 | zakkm | that wouldnt require a long guide too.. "download ___" |
| 21:34.22 | Macer | yah. the little artigo is a beast |
| 21:34.38 | Macer | it's been doing the xp thing pretty good for what it is.. i mounted it on the back of my desk :) |
| 21:34.39 | zakkm | b-man: any experimental one i can try? like a pre alpha perhaps? |
| 21:34.43 | jeremiah_ | lcuk: Heh! She is in the other room wathcing TV! |
| 21:34.46 | jeremiah_ | :) |
| 21:34.55 | jeremiah_ | I snuck away to talk to you lot. |
| 21:34.56 | lcuk | thats the open source excuse :P |
| 21:35.06 | b-man | zakkm: i'm still creating it :) |
| 21:35.11 | cheng_99 | jeremiah_: but i cannot do update even now |
| 21:35.11 | GeneralAntilles | jeremiah_, you totally need a tablet. ;) |
| 21:35.21 | jeremiah_ | I know! |
| 21:35.25 | jeremiah_ | Then I can do both! |
| 21:35.30 | jeremiah_ | Watch TV and surf! |
| 21:35.30 | lcuk | that way you can *pretend* to be watching tv |
| 21:35.31 | Myrtti | can donate her 770 |
| 21:35.31 | zakkm | hate long guides from nokia ;p |
| 21:35.32 | cheng_99 | Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/sdk/Release.gpg Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org' |
| 21:35.32 | jeremiah_ | heh |
| 21:35.38 | *** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=sporks@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:36.05 | cheng_99 | i am trying to get maeo-cplusplus-env |
| 21:36.05 | *** part/#maemo jegp (n=jegp@190.2.205.208) |
| 21:36.07 | lcuk | Myrtti, if you get rid of your 770 you will regret it! |
| 21:36.19 | b-man | has been very busy lately and has only had a fuew hours out of the day to work on ubuntu :( |
| 21:36.20 | Macer | a 770? :) |
| 21:36.24 | Myrtti | lcuk: not if I give it out to a good cause :-P |
| 21:36.25 | Macer | i doubt that haha |
| 21:36.34 | lcuk | lol Myrtti like giving blood |
| 21:36.39 | Myrtti | Macer: it's perfectly good device! |
| 21:36.52 | Macer | Myrtti: never said it wasn't.. but i doubt you will regret it |
| 21:37.03 | lcuk | macer, from what i understand the graphics bus on the 770 is more than capable (better even than 8x0) |
| 21:37.15 | Myrtti | I'm probably going to keep it for running Mer on it |
| 21:37.24 | jeremiah_ | Its amazing you guys (and gals) know all the models of Nokia products by their model numbers. |
| 21:37.25 | lcuk | needs to get some loving time with a 770 running chinook |
| 21:37.30 | Macer | but lacking in cpu/gpu/ram/features :) |
| 21:37.33 | Myrtti | perhaps my partner will tinker it to be a remote control for the home automation system |
| 21:37.43 | lcuk | jeremiah_, theres only 3, its not rocket science |
| 21:37.54 | jeremiah_ | Oh, only three that we care about. |
| 21:37.56 | Macer | especially when you can get an n800 for peanuts :) |
| 21:38.01 | *** part/#maemo cheng_99 (n=chengluo@5ad5fac1.bb.sky.com) |
| 21:38.09 | zakkm | b-man: does your guide if i follow it and before i do ubuntu-desktop, would it have ssh installed? ( i have n800 ) |
| 21:38.20 | lcuk | jeremiah_, unless you can divulge more :D |
| 21:38.38 | jeremiah_ | lcuk: 1. They don't tell me anything. 2. NDA |
| 21:38.40 | b-man | zakkm: most likely |
| 21:38.42 | Myrtti | knows only about half of Nokias products by number |
| 21:38.50 | lcuk | 770 is grandfather machine :) |
| 21:38.57 | jeremiah_ | 3. See 1. |
| 21:39.28 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, as with all maemo.org staff, they don't know anything. :P |
| 21:39.31 | lcuk | jeremiah_, its ok, we will wait for the next summit, get you (and the rest of the nokians) drunk and find out everything |
| 21:39.41 | lcuk | good point |
| 21:39.42 | Macer | you can ebay an n800 for like $100 |
| 21:39.43 | qwerty12_N800 | jeremiah_: you're meant to be our nokia man on the inside! |
| 21:39.44 | Macer | :) |
| 21:39.48 | qwerty12_N800 | cries |
| 21:39.54 | b-man | lol |
| 21:40.02 | Macer | wonder how much a n770 is going for |
| 21:40.08 | jeremiah_ | lcuk: Getting me drunk will be easy - you'll still get nothing from me. :) |
| 21:40.18 | lcuk | waits for GeneralAntilles to fix macers typo |
| 21:40.21 | jeremiah_ | Except that I know about . . . |
| 21:40.48 | jeremiah_ | A nano meter thin tablet, that is made of epaper. |
| 21:40.54 | Macer | heh |
| 21:40.55 | lcuk | hopefully by then we will have new toys to keep us occupied anyway |
| 21:40.56 | zs | Macer: there is no n770 device ;) |
| 21:40.58 | b-man | lol |
| 21:41.01 | jeremiah_ | Full qwerty keyboard in software |
| 21:41.03 | Macer | zs: there sure isn't :) |
| 21:41.03 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, I mean, why do you think we hired them? For their quick wit and good looks? Pah! They're the only ones we could con into working for used tablet slipcases. :P |
| 21:41.04 | lcuk | noooooooo nano thin is bad |
| 21:41.10 | b-man | hehe |
| 21:41.11 | lcuk | it would cause horrendous papercuts |
| 21:41.15 | jeremiah_ | Rolls up and folds into your pocket. |
| 21:41.23 | jeremiah_ | One year battery life. |
| 21:41.39 | lcuk | jeremiah_, might i direct you to the book shop |
| 21:41.42 | jeremiah_ | Wifi, 801b/g LTE, 4G, Wimax |
| 21:41.43 | lcuk | they have these kinds of devices |
| 21:41.46 | Macer | i still like my n800 tho |
| 21:41.47 | lcuk | only with longer battery life ;) |
| 21:41.50 | Macer | wish i had an n810 :) |
| 21:41.54 | Macer | just for the qwerty |
| 21:42.04 | zs | buy one ;) |
| 21:42.06 | lcuk | qwerty is here somewhere |
| 21:42.07 | oli | not really for gps? :> |
| 21:42.07 | jeremiah_ | And will cost 14 Euros! |
| 21:42.09 | Macer | i have found myself using my G1 10x more than my n800 |
| 21:42.20 | Macer | blah.. GPS is overrated |
| 21:42.28 | tank-man | n800 isnt a phone |
| 21:42.30 | oli | Macer: the android one? |
| 21:42.35 | lcuk | jeremiah_, which handheld devices have you got/had in the past? or have you come from all big machines |
| 21:42.35 | Macer | oli: yes |
| 21:42.49 | lcuk | tank-man, voip is enough for 99% of phone uses |
| 21:42.57 | jeremiah_ | lcuk: Mostly bigger machines - oddly enough they were embedded too. |
| 21:43.01 | tank-man | but he was comparing a phone to n800 |
| 21:43.07 | Macer | also. if wimax was actually anywhere but baltimore.. i'd get a n810 w/ wimax in a heartbeat |
| 21:43.13 | jeremiah_ | lcuk: But I do own one small hand held thingy. |
| 21:43.20 | jeremiah_ | It was bought for my by my wife. |
| 21:43.25 | Macer | damn you nextel/sprint! with your false promises |
| 21:43.29 | lcuk | what is it then |
| 21:43.35 | jeremiah_ | Yes. |
| 21:43.49 | Macer | tank-man: i meant in terms of usability |
| 21:43.51 | Macer | not just for making phone calls |
| 21:44.05 | Macer | slap skype on an n800 and you can cal people just fine :) |
| 21:44.50 | Macer | i am talking about programs/features/usability etc... the qwerty goes a long way.. not to mention the stronger gpu in the G1 .. love my n800 tho.. it is a beast :) |
| 21:45.25 | qwerty12_N800 | arrgh! why tf did I set xchat to highlight on qwerty >.< |
| 21:45.38 | Macer | haha |
| 21:45.49 | lcuk | likes the gpu on the 810 just fine. its better than the kindle one ;) |
| 21:46.04 | Macer | lcuk: no 3d accel |
| 21:46.06 | Macer | ;) |
| 21:46.06 | lcuk | qwerty, highlight bingo is good |
| 21:46.12 | lcuk | some nights it bongs all the time |
| 21:46.21 | lcuk | Macer, what do you need 3d for? |
| 21:46.33 | Macer | better looking interface? |
| 21:46.48 | Macer | 3d snake? |
| 21:46.48 | lcuk | what? psdoom? |
| 21:46.49 | Macer | :) |
| 21:46.56 | lcuk | what 3d interfaces exist now |
| 21:47.04 | lcuk | in regular use ^ |
| 21:47.10 | Macer | android is rendered on the G1 |
| 21:47.21 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, there isn't an active GPU on the N810. . . . |
| 21:47.24 | Macer | pull out menu and stuff is tranparent and rendered :) |
| 21:47.46 | lcuk | transparent doesnt need 3d though? |
| 21:47.47 | Macer | not to mention there are actually 3d acceled games forthe G1.. they suck.. but hey :) |
| 21:47.57 | Macer | lcuk: it is still rendered |
| 21:48.04 | lcuk | gaming is different and i agree |
| 21:48.05 | Macer | it is smooth |
| 21:48.14 | lcuk | yeah, i know all about smooth :) |
| 21:48.19 | Macer | :) |
| 21:48.59 | lcuk | i would love to see how liqbase handled itself on a kindle |
| 21:49.10 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (n=pcfe@a88-115-22-198.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 21:49.20 | Macer | i'm still sad over my damn shuttle |
| 21:49.46 | oli | lcuk: are you going to add fake-multitouch image stretching to next liqbase? :> |
| 21:49.51 | Macer | piece of shit.. either i'll try to RMA it back to newegg or just get a new one for $90 from somewhere |
| 21:50.56 | lcuk | mmmnm, there might be native multitouch events which might be possible to ummm maybe somehow be creatively ummm abused in some manner but thats all tbc |
| 21:51.49 | Macer | wow java is a whore |
| 21:51.54 | lcuk | but i hadnt thought about it too much recently, ive had other things to sort out |
| 21:51.57 | lcuk | lol |
| 21:52.10 | Macer | sucking up everything around it and spitting it out with herpes |
| 21:52.35 | lcuk | ahhh then java isnt a whore, either that or you aren't paying it enough |
| 21:53.05 | Macer | i guess my 1GHz C7 isn't paying enough |
| 21:53.10 | Macer | :) |
| 21:53.22 | lcuk | heh |
| 21:53.46 | zakkm | wow nice :) |
| 21:53.47 | zakkm | laptop? |
| 21:53.52 | Macer | but it is nice that i have a computer half the size of an internal optical drive mounted on the back of my desk |
| 21:54.04 | Macer | zakkm: artigo |
| 21:54.06 | lcuk | sitting at my desk feels wrong, its got no tablet on it |
| 21:54.14 | Macer | via pico-itx based system |
| 21:54.25 | zakkm | yeah i google'd :) |
| 21:54.30 | *** join/#maemo housetier (n=housetie@unaffiliated/housetier) |
| 21:54.35 | Macer | it's pretty strong for what it is |
| 21:54.35 | lcuk | macer!! in times gone by i had a whole computer in a unit smaller than the keyboard im on now |
| 21:54.38 | zakkm | internet is going slow, trying to debootstrap ubuntu for nokia |
| 21:54.42 | zakkm | i want to try out the e17 :) |
| 21:54.44 | b-man | updates tablet-wireless and tablet-network-setup in ubuntu repo |
| 21:54.45 | lcuk | and i have a handheld one with a screen as well |
| 21:54.50 | Macer | lcuk: that would be the artigo :) haha |
| 21:54.58 | lcuk | zx spectrum actually :P |
| 21:55.03 | b-man | *ubuntu-n8x0 |
| 21:55.20 | zakkm | ya ya sounds fun |
| 21:55.31 | zakkm | i like trying out stuff, and i love mac so im not switching desktop ;p |
| 21:56.03 | Macer | macs are OK .. i never bought into them .. i was able to get a mb for $500 off of someone getting rid of it |
| 21:56.07 | Macer | one of the smaller black ones |
| 21:56.14 | zakkm | omgg |
| 21:56.17 | tank-man | negative iphone story on slashdot.org with over 600 replys :) |
| 21:56.18 | zakkm | id buy that off you |
| 21:56.18 | Macer | i mean.. it's OK.. i don't see what the big deal is :) |
| 21:56.25 | zakkm | Macer: i use mac x86.. |
| 21:56.28 | Macer | zakkm: i use it |
| 21:56.34 | Macer | oh |
| 21:56.37 | zakkm | i got it planned though, so full support and such |
| 21:56.39 | Macer | hackintosh? |
| 21:56.39 | Macer | heh |
| 21:56.40 | zakkm | real mac disc |
| 21:56.58 | zakkm | got a perfectly supported motherboard and all, i love mac :) |
| 21:57.09 | Macer | what do they do that makes it different? |
| 21:57.11 | zakkm | got a 22" WS monitor the other day |
| 21:57.18 | Macer | i mean is there just some sort of thing they put on it ? |
| 21:57.21 | zakkm | mac itself or hackintosh? |
| 21:57.25 | zs | Macer: an apple ;) |
| 21:57.44 | zakkm | hackintosh just uses a fake bootloader. |
| 21:57.49 | zakkm | to let it boot |
| 21:58.16 | zakkm | then theres people that make drivers for stuff apple wouldnt put in the OS |
| 21:58.28 | Macer | it's just a mach kernel isn't it? |
| 21:58.32 | zakkm | yeah |
| 21:58.34 | zakkm | or alternative. |
| 21:58.36 | Macer | :) |
| 21:58.42 | zakkm | i use an alternative, but mach works fine |
| 21:58.53 | Macer | mach kernels aren't gpl ? |
| 21:59.01 | zakkm | yes they are |
| 21:59.08 | zakkm | well heh |
| 21:59.10 | Macer | does apple release the source? |
| 21:59.12 | zakkm | its illegal anyways, hackintosh |
| 21:59.13 | Macer | :) |
| 21:59.28 | jeremiah_ | Yes, you can get Darwin for free |
| 21:59.39 | jeremiah_ | The parts on top of it are proprietary |
| 21:59.44 | jeremiah_ | Like Aqua |
| 21:59.45 | qwerty12_N800 | Macer: kernel source is released as part of darwin afaik |
| 22:00.01 | zakkm | mac uses X.org too |
| 22:00.07 | Macer | so it's just a mach kernel with a shitty wm? |
| 22:00.08 | Macer | heh |
| 22:00.15 | zakkm | yup :) |
| 22:00.17 | Macer | sounds like fbsd running aqua :) |
| 22:00.24 | zakkm | can it really? |
| 22:00.33 | jeremiah_ | That is what it is, FreeBSD with Aqua |
| 22:00.43 | Macer | haha |
| 22:00.43 | zakkm | oh |
| 22:00.45 | jeremiah_ | And a bunch of proprietary apps |
| 22:00.50 | zakkm | talking that way |
| 22:00.54 | jeremiah_ | But they are damn consistent. |
| 22:01.01 | zakkm | i thought you can get like freebsd 7.0 and install aqua as a package.. and yeah :D |
| 22:01.06 | Macer | i was turned off by little things about it |
| 22:01.09 | *** join/#maemo jpuderer (n=jpuderer@76-10-171-168.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 22:01.09 | jeremiah_ | Especially with their user interface. |
| 22:01.19 | zakkm | the new safari 4 beta is beauitful |
| 22:01.20 | Macer | like the inability to keep the thing turned on with the lid closed without installing a 3rd party app |
| 22:01.20 | lcuk | jeremiah_, apart from all the changes and incompatibilities along the way :P |
| 22:01.37 | zakkm | Macer :would be happy to take it off your hands :) |
| 22:01.39 | Macer | then there was the inability to change the color of the desktop icon fonts |
| 22:01.50 | GeneralAntilles | Macer, really? I can't stand that Windows laptops absolutely refuse to sleep properly. |
| 22:01.52 | Myrtti | huggles her xubuntu ♥ |
| 22:01.53 | Macer | zakkm: naw.. i still use it.. ;) |
| 22:02.01 | lcuk | but an intelligent person asks why you are changing the desktop background? |
| 22:02.06 | jeremiah_ | Awwww, huggles. |
| 22:02.18 | Macer | GeneralAntilles: i had a few.. i think the only one that was a total piece of shit was the averatec |
| 22:02.22 | Macer | :) |
| 22:02.25 | jeremiah_ | Jeremiah huggles his debian machines(s) |
| 22:02.49 | Myrtti | I just put Debian Women sticker I bought from Steve at FOSDEM on my laptop lid! |
| 22:02.55 | jeremiah_ | kiitos Myrtti for the new word! |
| 22:03.07 | Myrtti | jeremiah_: np :-) |
| 22:03.07 | jeremiah_ | Did we meet at FOSDEM? |
| 22:03.11 | Myrtti | we did :-P |
| 22:03.13 | jeremiah_ | I think we did! |
| 22:03.15 | jeremiah_ | That was fun |
| 22:03.25 | jeremiah_ | Good to speak to you again. :) |
| 22:03.45 | Myrtti | indeed :-) |
| 22:04.07 | Myrtti | I need more stickers on my laptop :-/ |
| 22:04.16 | Myrtti | it still has vacant spots |
| 22:04.22 | jeremiah_ | Me too. |
| 22:04.49 | jeremiah_ | is reading the maemo training material |
| 22:04.51 | GeneralAntilles | I want a maemo.org bumper sticker to slap on my Camry. |
| 22:04.57 | Myrtti | jeremiah_: uh-oh :-D |
| 22:05.27 | lcuk | GeneralAntilles, that wont fool anyone, they will still know its a crappy car |
| 22:05.34 | lcuk | you would need a MASSIVE sticker to hide it |
| 22:05.40 | Myrtti | lol |
| 22:05.46 | Myrtti | tgif |
| 22:05.53 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, crappy? |
| 22:05.55 | Myrtti | actually, damn |
| 22:06.01 | Myrtti | it's already Saturday |
| 22:06.05 | GeneralAntilles | I think you're confusing Civic with Camry. |
| 22:06.33 | jeremiah_ | Umm, this is a tablet channel, not a car channel. |
| 22:06.37 | jeremiah_ | :) |
| 22:06.40 | Macer | have to love it when every article is missing in hella |
| 22:07.13 | Macer | ah well.. i'm going to take a nap. spent a day with the gf .. she wanted to take me shopping to get myself some clothes |
| 22:07.16 | lcuk | jeremiah_, we are also geeks and slashdot readers, car analogies are important |
| 22:07.22 | Macer | it was just one of those things you put up with |
| 22:07.27 | GeneralAntilles | jeremiah_, hey, I has ops! I decides what's on topic! :P |
| 22:07.27 | b-man | sees mac osx as just being a semi closed-sorce variant of linux.. kinda |
| 22:07.37 | Macer | b-man: fbsd |
| 22:07.41 | jeremiah_ | heh |
| 22:07.44 | Myrtti | GeneralAntilles: ... you think |
| 22:07.50 | jeremiah_ | CAN I HAZ OPS?! |
| 22:07.59 | *** join/#maemo croppa (n=stuart@135.27.233.220.exetel.com.au) |
| 22:08.01 | Macer | if it were a variant of linux it would be a linux kernel not a mach kernel |
| 22:08.01 | Myrtti | huggles GeneralAntilles |
| 22:08.04 | Myrtti | ♥ |
| 22:08.21 | jeremiah_ | b-man: Not at all - the kernels are completely different, as is the runtime |
| 22:08.27 | Myrtti | love is in the air! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNC0kIzM1Fo |
| 22:08.32 | jeremiah_ | b-man: Thread handling is different |
| 22:08.42 | Myrtti | (though I associate that song to when my compiling craps out) |
| 22:08.55 | GeneralAntilles | jeremiah_, we've driven at least one user to idle in here on a totally separate account thanks to the spam. ;) |
| 22:08.57 | Myrtti | or when my firefox hangs and I have to kill -9 it |
| 22:09.08 | GeneralAntilles | We've got expectations to meet and an image to consider. :P |
| 22:09.16 | jeremiah_ | b-man: Plus, linux performs 30% faster than OS X on the same hardware! |
| 22:09.25 | GeneralAntilles | Flash just seems to get worse and worse on this computer with every upgrade. |
| 22:09.30 | jeremiah_ | GeneralAntilles: Heh, can't handle the spam, get off the net. :) |
| 22:09.36 | Macer | jeremiah_: uhm... |
| 22:09.40 | Myrtti | GeneralAntilles: 64-bit system? |
| 22:09.44 | Myrtti | GeneralAntilles: flash10? |
| 22:09.45 | zakkm | b-man: your guide mentions a "rootstrap" would that be okay to use? |
| 22:09.49 | jeremiah_ | Macer: Err . . . |
| 22:09.52 | GeneralAntilles | Myrtti, OS X, PPC. |
| 22:09.55 | Myrtti | oh. |
| 22:09.56 | GeneralAntilles | Yes, Flash 10. |
| 22:09.57 | Myrtti | shuts up |
| 22:10.03 | lcuk | windows runs faster than linux :P |
| 22:10.08 | Macer | haha |
| 22:10.15 | Macer | lcuk: i was waiting for someone to say it |
| 22:10.26 | jeremiah_ | lcuk: Yes, true, but only when it is in a linux virtual machine. |
| 22:10.27 | Myrtti | my MUM runs faster than Windows |
| 22:10.29 | GeneralAntilles | The whole browser comes screeching to a halt for about 30 seconds while Flash loads. |
| 22:10.31 | qwerty12_N800 | ~burn the heretic that is lcuk |
| 22:10.31 | infobot | ACTION pours gasoline all over the heretic that is lcuk, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze |
| 22:10.31 | Macer | xp is going faster on my artigo :) |
| 22:10.36 | b-man | zakkm: shure, but remember to run apt-get dist-upgrade ;) |
| 22:10.43 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, none of these "x is faster than x" comparisons are the least bit valid. |
| 22:10.52 | jeremiah_ | BURN HIM! |
| 22:10.54 | lcuk | jeremiah_, no way, a well tuned xp desktop is superior |
| 22:10.56 | b-man | lol |
| 22:10.56 | jeremiah_ | BURN THE WITCH! |
| 22:10.57 | b-man | XD |
| 22:10.59 | Myrtti | BURN THE HERETIC |
| 22:11.06 | zakkm | guys, how do i stop a ssh in terminal? |
| 22:11.08 | b-man | >:D |
| 22:11.09 | zakkm | ctrl D doesnt work? |
| 22:11.13 | GeneralAntilles | jeremiah_, according to your limited experience. |
| 22:11.14 | Myrtti | ctrl-c? |
| 22:11.15 | zakkm | ohh C -.- |
| 22:11.17 | lcuk | and liqbase is EVEN faster than that! |
| 22:11.19 | GeneralAntilles | s/jeremiah_/lcuk/ |
| 22:11.21 | zakkm | i feel stupid |
| 22:11.24 | Macer | i think linux wold have possibly ran faster on this thing if i had not used kubuntu |
| 22:11.29 | jeremiah_ | zakkm: Type 'reset' then control-D |
| 22:11.29 | Macer | what a mistake that was |
| 22:11.35 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, if you want to bring out the scientific studies to prove your point, please do. ;) |
| 22:11.38 | qwerty12_N800 | gnome ftw |
| 22:11.41 | Myrtti | zakkm: don't, it's part of the natural learning process |
| 22:11.49 | Macer | ie didn't have tabbed browsing until ie7? |
| 22:11.52 | Macer | wtf? :) |
| 22:11.59 | Myrtti | Macer: welcome! to the future! |
| 22:12.05 | zakkm | no i been using linux along time and such and cli and i kept typing D im like -.- woorrkkk |
| 22:12.06 | lcuk | GeneralAntilles, easy one, scrollbars - in linux they dont reach the very edge of the screen - i cannot just move mouse to right hand edge and click |
| 22:12.07 | Myrtti | oh, this reminds me of... ZOMBO.COM! |
| 22:12.18 | Macer | Myrtti: i don't like ie7... i guess i'll install chrome on this thing |
| 22:12.19 | lcuk | (prob down to windowmanager over linux itself) |
| 22:12.22 | Myrtti | you can do anything at ZOMBO.COM |
| 22:12.32 | Macer | they still let you get rid of ie completely in xp right? |
| 22:12.34 | Macer | :) |
| 22:12.35 | Myrtti | Macer: I haven't used IE since 5.5 |
| 22:12.39 | jeremiah_ | lcuk: In fact recent studies and benchmarks show that certain parts of the Windows runtime run _faster_ in WINE than in Windows. |
| 22:12.48 | jeremiah_ | :P |
| 22:12.57 | Macer | Myrtti: i usually use it but i hate ie7.. but i think installing other browsers with ie installed is redundant |
| 22:12.58 | lcuk | but that still doesnt say linux runs faster |
| 22:13.04 | lcuk | that just shows that windows can be optimized more |
| 22:13.11 | qwerty12_N800 | jeremiah_: some viruses work better in wine :p |
| 22:13.17 | Macer | ie7 is horribly slow |
| 22:13.18 | b-man | lol |
| 22:13.21 | *** join/#maemo Zic (n=zic@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.zic) |
| 22:13.27 | lcuk | i solved a windows technical problem using wine the other day |
| 22:13.35 | Macer | wonder if they have ie listed in windows components |
| 22:13.44 | lcuk | i would genuinely be interested to start to replace the MS libraries with the wine equivs |
| 22:13.45 | zakkm | windows has always been faster in my opinion but overtime comes to a crawl, while linux stays persistent doesnt matter when you last reformatted |
| 22:14.04 | zakkm | :D |
| 22:14.14 | Myrtti | the problem with windows is the constant reboots |
| 22:14.33 | Myrtti | that make you want to bash someone's head in with a Windows 3.11 for Workgroups manual |
| 22:14.40 | jeremiah_ | and the virii, and the cost, and the license, and the FUD, and the bloat |
| 22:14.42 | lcuk | zakkm good point, but windows generally doesnt fall over if you keep it cleaned up, linux has a hickup and you lose your WM and are sat at a console going WTF? |
| 22:14.44 | b-man | doesn't use windows :) |
| 22:15.06 | lcuk | doesnt it get cold? |
| 22:15.08 | qwerty12_N800 | indeed, although it's a *bit* better in nt. 98/me would drive me crazy with the reboot level in that |
| 22:15.09 | jeremiah_ | doesn't use Windows either. |
| 22:15.16 | zakkm | i know theres ccleaner and all , it was just something i used to say about the speed difference between linux and windows |
| 22:15.27 | Macer | well. i'll be damned.. you can get rid of ie |
| 22:15.27 | Macer | :) |
| 22:15.30 | *** join/#maemo alecrim (n=alecrim@189.2.128.130) |
| 22:15.31 | zakkm | theres obviously exceptions but it is a general rule accepted by most ;p |
| 22:15.32 | Myrtti | doesn't use Windows without being forced |
| 22:15.40 | Macer | was that part of the anti trust settlement or something? |
| 22:15.44 | lcuk | windows doesnt get dirty unless you walk round with your muddy feet |
| 22:15.45 | oli | used to use windows to play CS |
| 22:15.54 | lcuk | if you keep the ship clean and tidy it runs well |
| 22:16.09 | b-man | Myrtti: same here :) |
| 22:16.18 | Myrtti | I was forced in June ;____; |
| 22:16.29 | Macer | wtf! hahaha |
| 22:16.30 | oli | lcuk: hijackthis and combofix do the thing |
| 22:16.35 | qwerty12_N800 | lcuk: say that to the vista update that fucked up on every comp |
| 22:16.36 | lcuk | im gonna vanish anyway, theres a curry leakage in the fridge |
| 22:16.38 | Myrtti | and I'm still the only one who takes care of my sisters PC (w2k) |
| 22:16.55 | Macer | i just got rid of ie from the windows components .. then go to a web site address in explorer.. and go to help and about and it says "about internet explorer" |
| 22:17.02 | Macer | so what does it do? just get rid of the icons? :) |
| 22:17.04 | Myrtti | my niece and nephew know they can go asking for support for their Vista laptops from someone else than me |
| 22:17.09 | lcuk | qwerty12_N800, 1000000000% agree, everything of microsofts since 2003 has been downhill, i hate the OTT .net initiative and every single overloaded bloated pile of crap since |
| 22:17.10 | zakkm | whats combofix? |
| 22:17.30 | lcuk | actually, i dont hate .net, i hate visual studio |
| 22:17.36 | lcuk | it feels like eclipse |
| 22:17.38 | zakkm | what you talking about, windows 7 is fast :) |
| 22:17.39 | lcuk | spits |
| 22:17.52 | b-man | finishes updating ubuntu-n8x0 repo |
| 22:17.55 | lcuk | zakkm, cool so ill put it on my eee |
| 22:18.07 | zakkm | honestly they really did fix it up |
| 22:18.16 | lcuk | polishing a turd |
| 22:18.25 | lcuk | vista sp2 |
| 22:18.36 | zakkm | its not as eyecandy as vista though, but its like half way.. and veryy nice speed |
| 22:18.56 | zakkm | b-man: getting 10kb/s off that link for the rootstrap |
| 22:19.02 | lcuk | goes currying |
| 22:19.13 | zakkm | http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/ubuntu-n8x0/Ubuntu-9.04-N8x0-v2.1.tar.gz |
| 22:19.30 | b-man | mhm |
| 22:22.15 | zakkm | b-man:im getting like 2.2kb/s now? |
| 22:22.42 | b-man | try re-connecting? |
| 22:22.52 | zakkm | i did |
| 22:23.01 | zakkm | and its my home wifi, and my dekstop is going fine |
| 22:23.06 | zakkm | i re ssh'd too |
| 22:23.15 | zakkm | differnet partition on nokia |
| 22:23.31 | b-man | hmm - maybe AndrewFBlack's server is being slow ;p |
| 22:23.44 | zakkm | it says b-man in the url? |
| 22:24.17 | oli | reporting 127kB/s - max ;) |
| 22:24.24 | b-man | but it's not my server :) - he's just letting me use it ;) |
| 22:24.41 | b-man | over 500GB :D |
| 22:25.06 | zakkm | oli: i got that bandwidth too |
| 22:25.16 | zakkm | but its not letting me download that fast, it did at first for like 2 seconds |
| 22:25.47 | *** join/#maemo filip42 (n=filip@ankh-morpork.disque-monde.org) |
| 22:25.47 | zakkm | Nokia-N800-43-7:/mnt/ubuntu# wget http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/ubuntu-n8x0/Ubuntu-9.04-N8x0-v2.1.tar.gz |
| 22:26.40 | qwerty12_N800 | save to your computer & untar it over usb |
| 22:26.43 | zakkm | oh works from desktop :) |
| 22:26.44 | zakkm | yeah |
| 22:26.56 | b-man | :) |
| 22:26.58 | Myrtti | crawls into her bed |
| 22:27.02 | Myrtti | nini everyone |
| 22:27.04 | zakkm | qwerty12_n800: just started download, and then switched to irc, and saw your post ;p |
| 22:27.13 | zakkm | b-man: where in the guide would i skip to? |
| 22:27.15 | b-man | g'night Myrtti :) |
| 22:28.18 | *** part/#maemo zs (n=zs@87-205-132-199.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 22:28.47 | b-man | zakkm: skip to step 6 |
| 22:29.12 | b-man | but remember to run apt-get dist-upgrade before doingo ;) |
| 22:29.25 | b-man | *doing so |
| 22:29.34 | zakkm | oh wow thats a big skip |
| 22:29.38 | zakkm | do i have to? |
| 22:29.44 | zakkm | im sure i will evantually, but does it matter for now? |
| 22:30.14 | b-man | it's highly suggested - that image is getting old |
| 22:30.37 | b-man | needs to make a new one soon |
| 22:30.43 | zakkm | want to see it at a desktop and all ;p and then update if that would work out |
| 22:30.56 | zakkm | i want to use the e17 :D |
| 22:31.08 | b-man | :) |
| 22:31.20 | zakkm | hows battery life in it? |
| 22:31.23 | zakkm | compared to maemo? |
| 22:32.02 | b-man | 1-2 hours for heavy use, 2-3 hours for idle - with powersave |
| 22:32.14 | b-man | withh gnome) |
| 22:32.20 | oli | would like to try fluxbox on tablet |
| 22:32.29 | zakkm | wow thats terrible? |
| 22:32.31 | zakkm | why so bad? |
| 22:32.37 | zakkm | maemo is like 5-6 hours use ? |
| 22:32.46 | b-man | i'm using a heavy desktop ;) |
| 22:33.00 | zakkm | 2-3 hours idle though. |
| 22:33.12 | b-man | it's more like 2-3 hours standard use |
| 22:33.26 | zakkm | hopefully e17 would help battery life ;p |
| 22:33.49 | b-man | i'll bet it will make a huge diffrence ;) |
| 22:33.52 | Jaffa | remembers when Enlightenment was viewed as the heavy, overly pretty, slow, bloated option |
| 22:34.02 | b-man | hehe |
| 22:34.22 | zakkm | XD |
| 22:34.33 | qwerty12_N800 | remembers using it in BeOS... |
| 22:34.42 | zakkm | 20 minutes reamining for rootstrap |
| 22:36.00 | b-man | zakkm: i would not worry too much about battery usage - it basicly uses the same ammount as deblet ;) |
| 22:36.12 | zakkm | never did try deblet |
| 22:36.14 | zakkm | attempted but failed |
| 22:36.31 | b-man | it's not bad ;) |
| 22:38.48 | b-man | 1624 b/s... hmmm :( |
| 22:39.18 | b-man | (b/s) |
| 22:39.28 | zakkm | getting what? |
| 22:39.44 | b-man | running apt-get update |
| 22:39.54 | zakkm | thats okay isnt it |
| 22:40.04 | zakkm | that meter is always wrong |
| 22:40.09 | b-man | not for my standards :D |
| 22:41.11 | b-man | 488 b/s O_o |
| 22:42.44 | b-man | now it spiked to 95 kb/s.. lol XD |
| 22:43.06 | zakkm | i extract the rootstrap to mmcblk0p2 |
| 22:43.07 | zakkm | ? |
| 22:44.19 | qwerty12_N800 | well, the mountpoint of /dev/mmcblk0p2 |
| 22:44.33 | oli | how do i make pop-ups? like in merinstaller script? |
| 22:44.52 | qwerty12_N800 | notification bubbles? |
| 22:45.00 | b-man | e.g. - mount /deev/mmcblk0p2 /mnt/jaunty ;) |
| 22:45.07 | zakkm | yeah i know |
| 22:45.11 | zakkm | but lets say i changed it |
| 22:45.16 | zakkm | is mmcblk0p2 the right partition |
| 22:45.20 | oli | qwerty12_N800: no, little dialog boxes with some text field or/and buttons |
| 22:45.40 | b-man | zenity? :P |
| 22:45.47 | qwerty12_N800 | oli: oh, i've uploaded zenity to extras - apt-get install zenuty |
| 22:45.57 | qwerty12_N800 | s/zenuty/zenity/ |
| 22:46.31 | zakkm | Step 6 ~ activating swap (recomended for ubuntu-desktop) |
| 22:46.31 | b-man | ~burn his N800 |
| 22:46.32 | infobot | ACTION pours gasoline all over his N800, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze |
| 22:46.32 | zakkm | This is assental for ubuntu-desktop to run smothly/sainly. |
| 22:46.35 | zakkm | what is wrong with that sentence ;p |
| 22:46.46 | b-man | it didn't work ;p |
| 22:46.48 | zakkm | is assental a real word? |
| 22:47.02 | oli | got it installed , now I'll learn how to use it ;] |
| 22:47.04 | b-man | infobot |
| 22:47.32 | GeneralAntilles | itT is just getting silly. |
| 22:47.40 | zakkm | :) |
| 22:48.10 | qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles: Use your powers to subdue the population! |
| 22:48.26 | *** join/#maemo ccooke (n=ccooke@spc1-walt10-0-0-cust85.asfd.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 22:48.50 | b-man | zakkm: yes, it is :P - gnome will run horrible without it :p |
| 22:48.59 | zakkm | noo |
| 22:49.05 | zakkm | it says assental .. which isnt a real word.. |
| 22:49.09 | zakkm | its essential |
| 22:49.16 | zakkm | This is assental for ubuntu-desktop to run smothly/sainly. |
| 22:49.37 | b-man | oh - spelling mistake.. i'll correct it |
| 22:49.41 | Jaffa | boggles at the number of people on ITT jumping up and down about how Nokia are not doing anything, how they're slipping, how the next tablet is like Duke Nukem Forever. |
| 22:49.49 | Jaffa | Have I gone through the looking glass? |
| 22:49.51 | zakkm | i do highly believe gnome on the tablet would need swap :P |
| 22:50.15 | b-man | hehe ;) |
| 22:50.23 | zakkm | isnt maemo speeding up alot lately? |
| 22:50.28 | zakkm | ubuntu port, mer is going fast.. |
| 22:50.41 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I've pointed out all of the highly visible progress to danramos several times to no effect. |
| 22:51.03 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@213.22.175.166) |
| 22:51.03 | b-man | ...because there using hildon? :) |
| 22:51.15 | b-man | @zakkm |
| 22:51.18 | GeneralAntilles | It seems to be his only supporting argument for the "silence" is emphatic declaration. |
| 22:51.26 | zakkm | i know im just saying in the whole tablet sense |
| 22:51.34 | zakkm | things are going alot faster, in my mind |
| 22:51.35 | GeneralAntilles | "Nothing's happening because I say nothing's and there's nothing you can do to change my mind!!!" |
| 22:51.57 | RST38h | Jaffa,General: As I said, releasing a Diablo update with some of the upcoming Fremantle features (like kinetic scrolling) would go a long way toward proving all the fearmongers wrong |
| 22:52.13 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf-n810 (n=hellwolf@213.22.175.166) |
| 22:52.15 | zakkm | what is kinetic scrolling? |
| 22:52.23 | zakkm | is that the after effect where it keeps going? |
| 22:52.26 | Jaffa | isn't convinced about multiple Maemo devices *yet*. Peter's view is always longer term than the next device; and I think fremantle'll be the stepping stone to the multi-device ground-break Harmattan |
| 22:52.29 | b-man | yes |
| 22:52.36 | zakkm | that was so cool in android :) |
| 22:52.45 | zakkm | used to do it for fun |
| 22:52.48 | RST38h | But, as things are, *nothing* is happening with the tablets everybody has at hands, and there isn't much to be done about it =( |
| 22:52.51 | b-man | agreed :) |
| 22:53.04 | Jaffa | RST38h: agreed, an OS2008.75 would've been good. But the next device could have had an OS which made as much use of it as OS2005 did on a 770 |
| 22:53.20 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I don't buy it either. |
| 22:53.22 | Jaffa | RST38h: install mer and you get kinetic scrolling goodness |
| 22:53.43 | Jaffa | Perfect for the desperate end-user ;-) |
| 22:53.50 | RST38h | Jaffa: Mer isn't fully functional on the tablet and it does not come from Nokia, so it will only further public view that "Nokia is doing nothing" |
| 22:53.56 | zakkm | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:54.02 | RST38h | isn't a desperate end user really. |
| 22:54.15 | zakkm | its not just rumoured? |
| 22:54.26 | RST38h | Got plenty of hardware to play with, much more so than time available for the play |
| 22:54.34 | b-man | zakkm, most likely not unfortunately |
| 22:54.37 | Jaffa | zakkm: It is looking very likely, that unless something changes, Nokia will not provide an end-user installable Fremantle image for N8x0 users. |
| 22:54.38 | zakkm | awesome its done downoading |
| 22:54.52 | zakkm | it could always turn out to be "hacker editions" ? |
| 22:55.08 | GeneralAntilles | Mer is the Hacker Edition. |
| 22:55.12 | b-man | it's looking likely?? |
| 22:55.18 | zchydem | zakkm, RST38h, Jaffa: For kinetic scrolling and other Qt based stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAwmW6_G0TM |
| 22:55.20 | b-man | oh ;p |
| 22:55.21 | Jaffa | zakkm: Much of Fremantle's tech is already being delivered through Mer, which is the proper- community-owned - Hacker Edition. http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer |
| 22:55.27 | RST38h | General: Remember, N800 and N810 were once marketed as multiple devices |
| 22:55.30 | Jaffa | b-man: there was a negative in there ;-) |
| 22:55.35 | zchydem | couldn't resist to put that link.. |
| 22:55.39 | RST38h | General: But N800 soon faded into marketing oblivion |
| 22:55.43 | Jaffa | RST38h: Not by Nokia IIRC |
| 22:56.14 | RST38h | Jaffa: Didn't Nokia said that N800/N810 are two equivalent harware-wise devices for slightly different needs? |
| 22:56.24 | RST38h | didn/hasn/ |
| 22:56.26 | Jaffa | zchydem: I saw earlier, very swish. I think the background should move slightly (giving a parallax effect) when panning through the launcher left-to-right. Looked very odd with the static background. |
| 22:57.17 | GeneralAntilles | I wish we could fast forward a month or two and just be done with it. |
| 22:57.26 | zchydem | Jaffa: yeah, it's just in quite beginning.. |
| 22:57.30 | RST38h | Besides, it would be spring then =) |
| 22:57.36 | Jaffa | RST38h: I honestly only remember Thoughtfix/Texrat et al saying that. Now, that could've come from Nokia briefing them, but I really don't remember anything from Nokia about it. Indeed, at the N810 launch it was all "who'd want an N800? The N810 has a keyboard, GPS and is smaller" |
| 22:58.01 | RST38h | Jaffa: Yea, I also remember thoughtfix saying this stuff |
| 22:58.06 | zakkm | b-man: does the root partition have to be ext3 , can it be ext2? |
| 22:58.35 | qwerty12_N800 | "who'd want an N800?" - people who don't want a fixed size internal card :) |
| 22:58.36 | RST38h | Anyway, multiple Maemo devices seem unlikely unless Nokia really decides to ditch S60 for Maemo on high-end devices |
| 22:58.37 | b-man | it can be ext2 but ext3 is a better format :) |
| 22:59.06 | b-man | less likely to ruin your system after a crash) |
| 22:59.08 | Jaffa | RST38h: agreed. I bet there are people high up in Nokia who may be paying more attention to Maemo in the next 12 months or so. |
| 22:59.23 | Jaffa | Depending on how well open sourcing Symbian goes. |
| 22:59.30 | *** join/#maemo cjdavis (n=cjdavis@cpe-71-67-99-208.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 22:59.46 | RST38h | Jaffa: Dunno, I am getting an impression that Maemo is more like a semi-research side project for Nokia |
| 23:00.07 | RST38h | Jaffa: More or less like that Itsy tablet (?) that ended up as iPaq |
| 23:02.35 | zakkm | b-man: according to your guide mmcblk0p2 = root... but it becomes 6mb? when you do 356,6 ? |
| 23:02.48 | zakkm | and the large one, becomes swap? 3.7gb of swap? |
| 23:04.00 | *** join/#maemo jgoss (n=josh@unaffiliated/jgoss) |
| 23:04.02 | b-man | that's your userspace witch is 356mb with fat16, your linux partition will be ,,L for linux83 (,, meaning the rest) |
| 23:04.28 | zakkm | sfdisk -uM /dev/mmcblk0 |
| 23:04.29 | zakkm | 356,6 |
| 23:04.29 | zakkm | ,,L |
| 23:04.38 | Jaffa | RST38h: It started like that, and that's how (I think) Maemo SW still - to an extent - view themselves. But I bet there are more senior managers paying it attention as a "we need something to compete with iPhone/Android/webOS and Symbian isn't cutting the mustard". Internal politics is fun, and I know how big companies work (recommended read: "Big Blue: The Unmaking of IBM" - unfortunately written in the early 90s before IBM's comeback, but still fascinating |
| 23:04.39 | zakkm | partition 1 - 356mb.. partition 2 - 6mb partition 3 - rest |
| 23:04.47 | zakkm | end of guide you put partition 3 = swap? |
| 23:05.01 | Jaffa | internal politics between the PC and mainframe guys scuppered everything they were doing, and handed the PC business to Microsoft on a silver platter). |
| 23:05.17 | b-man | partition 1 = 356mb fat partition 2 = the rest is linux83 |
| 23:05.33 | zakkm | exactly |
| 23:05.45 | zakkm | so rest linux83 = root right? |
| 23:05.48 | zakkm | rest would be partition 3? |
| 23:05.49 | b-man | ,, = empty |
| 23:05.55 | RST38h | Jaffa: well, product lineup indicates that the big cheeses are all centered on S60e5 |
| 23:05.57 | zakkm | mkswap /dev/mmcblk1p3 ? |
| 23:06.03 | zakkm | that doesnt make sense then |
| 23:06.07 | b-man | S = swap |
| 23:06.10 | Jaffa | RST38h: true |
| 23:06.23 | RST38h | Jaffa: Interesting that tablets are not even on the list of developer samples leaked a while ago |
| 23:06.26 | zakkm | nonono 2 and 3 are wrongly ordered |
| 23:06.30 | zakkm | the way i see it |
| 23:06.39 | b-man | how big is your card? |
| 23:06.43 | zakkm | 4gb |
| 23:06.53 | RST38h | SLEEP. |
| 23:06.58 | b-man | how big do you want swap? |
| 23:07.03 | zakkm | 512 ? |
| 23:07.09 | Jaffa | RST38h: indeed. Suppose it depends from what level in the org it was leaked (although post-restructure isn't it all a bit less siloed?) |
| 23:07.12 | b-man | k, hold on.. |
| 23:07.50 | zakkm | dev/mmcblk0p3 :,, |
| 23:08.01 | zakkm | dev/mmcblk0p3 362 3827 3466 3549184 83 Linux |
| 23:08.04 | zakkm | according to your guide |
| 23:08.12 | zakkm | 3466mb for swap? |
| 23:08.43 | b-man | partition 1 = 356,6 partition 2 = 3644,L partition 3 = 512, S |
| 23:09.12 | zakkm | 3644,L trailing junk after number |
| 23:09.43 | zakkm | there we go :) |
| 23:09.44 | zakkm | thank you |
| 23:09.52 | b-man | np :) |
| 23:10.40 | zakkm | Nokia-N800-43-7:~# umount /dev/mmcblk0p1 |
| 23:10.40 | zakkm | umount: cannot umount /media/mmc2: Device or resource busy |
| 23:10.42 | GeneralAntilles | The comment about Linux being an option on high-end phones was interesting. |
| 23:11.13 | zakkm | arent phones always some form of linux? |
| 23:11.22 | b-man | do you have virtual memory ennabled? |
| 23:11.24 | zakkm | except pda style ones |
| 23:11.27 | zakkm | ohh that might be it |
| 23:11.32 | b-man | :) |
| 23:11.42 | zakkm | i restarted hildon desktop im like.. whats taking it |
| 23:12.08 | b-man | :D |
| 23:12.30 | zakkm | yes its working :) |
| 23:12.43 | GeneralAntilles | zakkm, um, no? |
| 23:12.47 | GeneralAntilles | Is Symbian Linux? |
| 23:12.57 | zakkm | isnt it? |
| 23:13.01 | GeneralAntilles | No. |
| 23:13.06 | zakkm | always thought it was |
| 23:13.06 | b-man | hehe |
| 23:13.08 | GeneralAntilles | Nor is Windows Mobile |
| 23:13.12 | GeneralAntilles | Nor iPhone OS |
| 23:13.15 | zakkm | well i said besides pda style |
| 23:13.19 | zakkm | that meant windows mobile ;p |
| 23:13.29 | GeneralAntilles | Then there's a dozen and one proprietary OSes. |
| 23:13.41 | GeneralAntilles | Motorola being the only vendor that even dabbles a little bit in Linux there. |
| 23:13.42 | zakkm | i meant like old flip phones, $50 w.e |
| 23:13.48 | qwerty12_N800 | Nor ENEA OSE, which can be found on even k750 ;) |
| 23:13.54 | GeneralAntilles | zakkm, yeah, proprietary stuff. |
| 23:13.58 | GeneralAntilles | Definitely not Linux. . . . |
| 23:14.41 | ShadowJK | s40 |
| 23:15.16 | *** join/#maemo Shadow__X (n=Good@rh-laureln-cs1-129-67.njit.edu) |
| 23:15.22 | zakkm | ah mann |
| 23:15.32 | zakkm | i made mmcblk0p4 - 3.2gb |
| 23:18.36 | oli | i've got little problem with zanity |
| 23:18.47 | b-man | DX |
| 23:19.42 | oli | i want to make a radio list with one column hidden (number to report to script: 1,2,3) and other with descriptions of numbers |
| 23:21.28 | oli | when i use --column=No true 1 false 2 false 3 it's ok |
| 23:22.01 | oli | but when i try to add 2nd column it's mixing with prev. one |
| 23:22.40 | zakkm | GeneralAntilles: what do you use to read ext3 on mac? |
| 23:23.01 | GeneralAntilles | The crappy, broken EXT* driver that's floating around out there. |
| 23:23.12 | GeneralAntilles | I just use SFTP to transfer files. |
| 23:23.52 | oli | got it! |
| 23:24.22 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@dasasob.nokia.com) |
| 23:25.44 | *** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@86.56.59.212) |
| 23:26.20 | zakkm | can you transfer files over ssh? |
| 23:26.32 | GeneralAntilles | That'd be SFTP |
| 23:26.49 | derf | sftp is for losers. |
| 23:26.52 | derf | Use scp. |
| 23:26.55 | zakkm | how do i set up? |
| 23:27.01 | zakkm | simple setup |
| 23:27.14 | derf | scp is like cp, except you put user@host: in front of your file names. |
| 23:27.44 | zakkm | ? |
| 23:28.05 | lcuk | lol derf, i think zakkm is more a gui person ;) |
| 23:28.15 | benson | likes being a loser |
| 23:28.24 | zakkm | no lol i just get confused by that |
| 23:29.03 | lcuk | benson, why are you a loser? |
| 23:29.13 | zakkm | im sorry im not as old as you guys :) |
| 23:29.29 | benson | I use sftp. |
| 23:29.41 | lcuk | zakkm, dont worry i hate the console as well |
| 23:29.47 | lcuk | uses winftp |
| 23:29.51 | lcuk | winscp |
| 23:29.52 | lcuk | rather |
| 23:29.54 | lbt | scp has less letters than sftp |
| 23:30.06 | derf | lcuk: You're a recovering Windows user, you don't count. |
| 23:30.15 | lcuk | heck no, im not recovering |
| 23:30.21 | lcuk | i fall off the wagon every day |
| 23:30.22 | benson | sftp has ls, rm, etc. |
| 23:30.30 | Jaffa | decides that free time is for losers and emails maemo-community. |
| 23:30.33 | derf | Give it 5 years. |
| 23:30.46 | lcuk | yeah ill have liqos to use then :) |
| 23:30.50 | lbt | scp has ssh |
| 23:31.10 | lbt | and autocomletion in bash |
| 23:31.15 | lbt | see |
| 23:31.25 | lbt | if this was bash it would have spelt that right |
| 23:31.27 | benson | sftp has _heritage_! :p |
| 23:31.36 | lbt | so has windows |
| 23:31.42 | zakkm | lol |
| 23:31.44 | zakkm | i have mac? |
| 23:31.50 | lcuk | cp existed before ftp? |
| 23:32.03 | zakkm | theres built in ssh and all |
| 23:32.06 | lbt | zakkm: why are you asking, you don't know? |
| 23:32.25 | zakkm | i tend to do ? after a sentence, habit. |
| 23:32.31 | lbt | ah? |
| 23:32.34 | benson | cp didn't exist over the network, I think... |
| 23:32.49 | zakkm | how do i copy something from mac to nokia ;( |
| 23:32.59 | lbt | sd card |
| 23:33.01 | zakkm | got scp on mac and nokia :( |
| 23:33.05 | zakkm | i cant, mac cant read the ext3 |
| 23:33.14 | GeneralAntilles | Transmit |
| 23:33.15 | GeneralAntilles | SFTP |
| 23:33.24 | lbt | nfs |
| 23:33.44 | lbt | smb |
| 23:33.52 | zakkm | samba? i dont use windows ;p |
| 23:33.54 | lcuk | zakkm, print it out, put it through the fax machine, at the other end place it onto a wooden table, take a photo, scan it into word, export as pdf, upload to some webservice and then browse to it from your nokia |
| 23:33.55 | benson | Carrier pigeons. |
| 23:33.56 | lcuk | simple! |
| 23:34.02 | qwerty12_N800 | format the mac partition & install linux |
| 23:34.14 | zakkm | omg ;p |
| 23:34.15 | derf | lcuk: You forgot "Embed it in a Word file." |
| 23:34.25 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.panic.com/transmit/ |
| 23:34.26 | lcuk | "scan it into word, export as pdf," |
| 23:34.29 | lbt | I had a broken samsung hdd |
| 23:34.39 | lbt | the man from samsung sent me a new firmware |
| 23:34.45 | derf | Oh, sorry, I must've skipped some in the middle. |
| 23:34.52 | lbt | embedded in a powerpoint file |
| 23:34.55 | lbt | for real |
| 23:34.56 | lcuk | you - they are called transmission errors |
| 23:34.58 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3_ (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-152-227.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 23:35.07 | lcuk | ppt doesnt play too well on tablet |
| 23:35.09 | benson | zakkm: My folks use ~80% Linux machines on their network, and use smb for all systems. |
| 23:35.09 | lbt | http |
| 23:35.11 | lcuk | not without conversion again |
| 23:35.22 | derf | lbt: It's quite sad how often such things happen. |
| 23:35.34 | lbt | lcuk: you have no idea how *hard* that was to get out!!! |
| 23:35.42 | lcuk | screenshot photos in word documents really piss me off! |
| 23:35.52 | lbt | OO doesn't deal well with firmware in presentations |
| 23:36.02 | lcuk | :O |
| 23:36.07 | lcuk | i missed a line |
| 23:36.11 | GeneralAntilles | OK, now imagine a world with Microsoft. |
| 23:36.15 | zakkm | OO hates me :) |
| 23:36.19 | GeneralAntilles | s/with/without/ ;) |
| 23:36.27 | lcuk | wtf @ firmware in ppt |
| 23:36.33 | lcuk | shakes head |
| 23:36.36 | benson | Wasn't taking much imagination for a minute. |
| 23:36.48 | lcuk | see - having all these technogical things just makes you use em for stupid crap! |
| 23:36.48 | lbt | samsung engineer.... I have *so* much more confidence in them now... |
| 23:37.02 | lcuk | back to basics! |
| 23:37.09 | lbt | GW? |
| 23:37.11 | benson | GeneralAntilles: So IBM is still the big bad megacorp? |
| 23:37.14 | lcuk | could do |
| 23:37.24 | benson | Or someone different by now? |
| 23:37.25 | lcuk | monkey.bas (i seem to recall?) |
| 23:37.27 | derf | benson: You trying to tell me they're not _now_? |
| 23:37.38 | GeneralAntilles | benson, it's actually an interesting question. |
| 23:37.41 | benson | _the_ big bad megacorp |
| 23:37.50 | GeneralAntilles | Would Linux have developed to where it is today without Microsoft? |
| 23:38.04 | lcuk | sure, linus didnt do it to beat windows |
| 23:38.15 | lcuk | some of the window managers however might not be where they are |
| 23:38.15 | benson | No, not Linux. |
| 23:38.17 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, Linux didn't happen just by Linus's hand. |
| 23:38.19 | derf | It's not just Linus. |
| 23:38.25 | derf | Yeah, Gnome and KDE would be very different. |
| 23:38.33 | derf | And we'd probably all be ruled by Apple. |
| 23:38.35 | benson | You can't shuffle history that much and expect the same guy's pet project to take off like that. |
| 23:38.41 | benson | butterfly effect and all. |
| 23:38.42 | lcuk | linux itself is not a competitor for windows |
| 23:38.46 | GeneralAntilles | Let's assuming I'm not an RMS subscriber and by "Linux" I mean "not just the kernel". ;) |
| 23:39.02 | GeneralAntilles | Also: I can type. |
| 23:39.05 | GeneralAntilles | gives up. |
| 23:39.21 | lcuk | can REALLY see some far flung future where microsoft could have a linux kernel.. ;) |
| 23:39.59 | derf | I can see some far-flung future where they're bankrupt. |
| 23:40.02 | benson | In that case, it's an interesting question. Without Linux kernel, either HURD would be completed by now, or one/several BSDs would have taken off big. |
| 23:40.16 | benson | But w/o MS... who knows? |
| 23:40.18 | lbt | pointless speculation |
| 23:40.21 | lcuk | or something new wouldv emerged |
| 23:40.30 | derf | The BSDs had their shot. |
| 23:40.38 | derf | They existed long before Linux did. |
| 23:40.44 | lcuk | of course its pointless lbt, its friday night, i have beer |
| 23:40.46 | lbt | unless you know who's running the Matrix and where the checkpoints are stored |
| 23:41.01 | zakkm | Nokia-N800-43-7:~# mount /dev/mmcblk0p2 /mnt/mer |
| 23:41.01 | zakkm | mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p2 on /mnt/mer failed |
| 23:41.18 | lbt | is that how they made was that groundhog day |
| 23:41.18 | lcuk | derf, sometimes you overlook the things you need |
| 23:41.25 | benson | Sure, the BSDs existed before people wanted a free UNIX on gazillions of cheap, internet-connected PCs. |
| 23:41.33 | benson | And it didn't take off... |
| 23:41.37 | derf | lcuk: Like beer? |
| 23:41.46 | lbt | beer doesn't take off |
| 23:41.46 | lcuk | doesnt overlook it |
| 23:42.16 | benson | You could blame them, or you could blame the lack of widespread internet+PCs. |
| 23:42.59 | derf | The computer industry was much smaller, sure, but you know everyone at universities has had a network for a long time. |
| 23:43.31 | GeneralAntilles | waves at Jaffa. |
| 23:43.34 | benson | I'm more inclined to suppose Linux beat them, as conditions for free UNIX proliferation appeared, through luck than any serious improvement. |
| 23:43.39 | GeneralAntilles | Gonna have to take the weekend to wait and ponder. |
| 23:43.39 | lbt | Tim BL made Linux succesful |
| 23:43.48 | benson | Without Linus, I think they'd have had a shot. |
| 23:44.01 | benson | s/us/ux/ |
| 23:44.08 | GeneralAntilles | benson, considered running for Council? |
| 23:44.09 | derf | Well, I won't get into a GPL vs. BSD license debate. |
| 23:44.16 | lbt | aw |
| 23:44.18 | derf | Because I don't actually know how much that mattered. |
| 23:44.19 | benson | (Although it follows.) |
| 23:44.30 | benson | GeneralAntilles: No way, don't have time. |
| 23:44.34 | derf | But that's also a factor you can't ignore. |
| 23:44.58 | *** join/#maemo TheJere_ (n=TheJere@ip-83-134-207-180.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 23:45.07 | lbt | forcing people to share and making greed harder helped Linux |
| 23:45.26 | derf | But it didn't help HURD. |
| 23:45.46 | lbt | which counters the university arguement |
| 23:46.03 | lbt | s/uem/um/ |
| 23:46.03 | lcuk | was it hurd that was started/in progress when amigas were going strong |
| 23:46.11 | zakkm | omg this is stupid ;p |
| 23:46.18 | lbt | your Mac? |
| 23:46.24 | derf | My argument was not that innovation comes from universities, but that a large proportion of the industry _did_ have cheap (free to them) net connected PCs. |
| 23:46.26 | lcuk | zakkm, what is? |
| 23:46.48 | lbt | indeed - and yet it still didn't happen |
| 23:47.10 | lcuk | thats cos universities are lazy places :D |
| 23:47.12 | benson | What didn't happen? Universities didn't run BSD? |
| 23:47.22 | lbt | you need bored people on friday nights with beer on irc |
| 23:47.44 | lbt | no, the explosion of Linux didn't happen |
| 23:47.56 | benson | Bored people with Dr. Pepper are good, too. |
| 23:48.00 | GeneralAntilles | has got the new gadget withdrawal shakes. |
| 23:48.07 | derf | Dr Pepper has no period. |
| 23:48.10 | zakkm | this ubuntu intall |
| 23:48.22 | lbt | Dr Pepper must be a man then |
| 23:48.28 | lbt | ducks |
| 23:48.29 | lcuk | in 2000 when i was last in edu, a linux install was barely more than a console, there was quick simple copyable windows 9x or nt available |
| 23:48.34 | benson | True, but I would care why? |
| 23:48.37 | *** join/#maemo ccooke (n=ccooke@spc1-walt10-0-0-cust85.asfd.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 23:48.39 | zakkm | dr pepper runs :) (only drinks drpepper, for pop that is) |
| 23:48.43 | benson | Abusing trademarks is fun! |
| 23:48.46 | lcuk | what do you think ppl used |
| 23:48.48 | *** join/#maemo eocanha (n=eocanha@84.78.85.64) |
| 23:48.58 | derf | Okay, dinner is over. Enough time wasting. |
| 23:49.07 | *** part/#maemo eocanha (n=eocanha@84.78.85.64) |
| 23:49.07 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, fountain pens? |
| 23:49.11 | lcuk | lol |
| 23:49.21 | lbt | yep - night all... GeneralAntilles bugzilla? |
| 23:49.33 | lcuk | derf :) its fun sometimes, have a good evening |
| 23:49.36 | GeneralAntilles | lbt, context? |
| 23:49.40 | lbt | and don't hold your breath for 2-column - it's bloody hard! |
| 23:49.47 | GeneralAntilles | Oh, right. |
| 23:49.56 | GeneralAntilles | lbt, it's there, isn't it? |
| 23:49.59 | GeneralAntilles | I created it a few days ago. |
| 23:50.23 | lbt | oh, expected an email or something |
| 23:50.27 | lcuk | lbt, the missus took me shopping tonight, its braindraining, no wonder you play with nokia whilst aimlessly wandering around |
| 23:50.27 | GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Shopper |
| 23:50.33 | GeneralAntilles | lbt, nah, not that organized. ;) |
| 23:50.46 | lbt | :D |
| 23:50.52 | lbt | not from you - from it |
| 23:50.55 | GeneralAntilles | lbt, let me know if you want some more stuff. |
| 23:50.57 | lcuk | jake has the right idea: straight for the toys |
| 23:51.12 | zakkm | Nokia-N800-43-7:~# mount /dev/mmcblk0p2 /mnt/mer |
| 23:51.12 | zakkm | mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p2 on /mnt/mer failed |
| 23:51.15 | zakkm | why cant i mount it? |
| 23:51.20 | GeneralAntilles | lbt, you'll get one once somebody files a bug. ;) |
| 23:51.25 | zakkm | proper linux ext3 , and /mnt/mer exists |
| 23:51.30 | *** join/#maemo croppa (n=stuart@135.27.233.220.exetel.com.au) |
| 23:51.55 | benson | mount -t ext3 ... |
| 23:51.57 | GeneralAntilles | Did you load the modules? |
| 23:51.57 | lbt | woohoo - shopper is perfect |
| 23:52.04 | benson | Load the kernel modules? |
| 23:52.09 | zakkm | oh |
| 23:52.12 | zakkm | that could do it |
| 23:52.28 | GeneralAntilles | lbt, I guess it's time to retire to a nice place in the Caribbean. |
| 23:52.48 | lbt | somewhere more snowy I think... |
| 23:52.50 | lcuk | jaffa :) |
| 23:52.58 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: someone had to go first... |
| 23:53.18 | zakkm | file exists, when i do insmod? |
| 23:53.29 | qwerty12_N800 | grins gleefully at the idea of nomination |
| 23:53.58 | GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800's gonna nominate Darius. |
| 23:54.01 | Jaffa | hopes baloo will stand again |
| 23:54.12 | benson | zakkm: means the module's loaded. |
| 23:54.13 | qwerty12_N800 | haha |
| 23:54.17 | Jaffa | gets dneary to hack the electoral db |
| 23:54.44 | zakkm | mkdir: cannot create directory '/mnt/jaunty': File exists |
| 23:54.44 | zakkm | Nokia-N800-43-7:~# mount /dev/mmcblk0p2 /mnt/jaunty -o noatime |
| 23:54.44 | zakkm | mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p2 on /mnt/jaunty failed |
| 23:55.00 | lbt | is really going |
| 23:55.05 | qwerty12_N800 | -t exists for a reason ;) |
| 23:55.25 | zakkm | oo just redid mkfs.ext |
| 23:55.26 | zakkm | that worked |
| 23:55.41 | zakkm | now transfer time :) |
| 23:56.23 | zakkm | sweet its sending |
| 23:56.37 | *** join/#maemo b-man (n=b-man@pool-71-124-38-74.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 23:56.45 | b-man | is back |
| 23:56.56 | lcuk | GeneralAntilles, did you see my post about the puppy, you were around when it first arrived - how was the buzz about it |
| 23:57.03 | zakkm | b-man: when i unzipped the .tar .. it ggave me a 480.9mb gzip file |
| 23:57.10 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, context? |
| 23:57.17 | lcuk | puppy robot |
| 23:57.23 | GeneralAntilles | missed the post. |
| 23:57.25 | benson | The Nokia tablet-headed puppy bot? |
| 23:57.37 | lcuk | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27178 |
| 23:57.41 | lcuk | yeah |
| 23:57.47 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk, we had decided that I was going to attend the Summit as one last year. :P |
| 23:57.48 | benson | I think it's actually got an N810 these days. |
| 23:57.59 | lcuk | lol |
| 23:58.28 | lcuk | i got talking to someone about robotics earlier |
| 23:58.33 | lcuk | hence the post.. |
| 23:58.34 | b-man | zakkm: you might need to unzip that using gzip - allthough it shuld have done that automaticly |
| 23:58.46 | zakkm | ohh ill do on tablet then |
| 23:58.49 | GeneralAntilles | There wasn't really all that much buzz. |
| 23:58.58 | GeneralAntilles | Just another research project that'd never really see the light of day. |
| 23:59.01 | lcuk | that would explain it |
| 23:59.04 | lcuk | lol |
| 23:59.29 | lcuk | is glad some research projects exist outside the lab |
| 23:59.34 | qwerty12_N800 | remembers that N800 controlled "voip robot" |