IRC log for #maemo on 20090201

00:04.39timelessreads http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/modest-1.0-2008.23/src/modest-tny-account-store.c?mark=643-652#623
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00:12.12PhantomHmm I think I somehow broke the package management system... but cannot restore it without root access.
00:13.12PhantomI probably could fix things if that was a usual debian system, but maemo with restricted access is pain
00:14.44Phantomtimeless: can you suggest something ?
00:15.03timelesswell
00:15.10timelessi'd really suggest reflashing :)
00:15.15timelessbut really
00:15.21timelessdo you have a second computer of any kind
00:16.01timelesscapture-root will let you setup a /root/.ssh/authorized_keys file based on /home/user/.ssh/authorized_keys
00:16.15timelessyou can drop in one from a normal computer (for which you have the key!)
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00:16.40timelessyou could also just package a standalone shell which is suid
00:16.45timelessand then install it and use it to do whatever
00:17.25timeless-- assuming you haven't completely broken application manager
00:25.38PhantomYes, I have a notebook I currently working on.
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00:27.18PhantomI think it wrote something wrong in /var and now can't underst what it did.
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00:48.20timelesshey, in theory, modest is open source, right?
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00:55.26GAN800timeless, yes.
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01:06.16timelessgan: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4061
01:06.50timelessso
01:07.04timeless"Untranslated error occurred, get a better mail client"
01:07.05timeless? :)
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01:30.10timelessponders
01:30.16timeless# GNU copyright 1997 to 1999 by Joey Hess.
01:30.16timeless# Copyright 2004-2006 Nokia
01:30.20timelessdoes that really make sense?
01:31.14johnxno
01:31.39johnxI was trying to figure out a way for that to make sense, but I really can't
01:35.41johnxwhat is a "GNU copyright"?
01:35.54johnxand how did it get transferred to Nokia?
01:36.16johnxAlso: What was this software doing from 2000 to 2004?
01:41.36ana`timeless: is that from a debian/rules file? sounds like the usual stuff that debhelper templates have
01:42.53timelessincluding the 'Nokia' bit? :)
01:43.06timelessjohnx: all very good questions
01:43.18timelessana`: sure, but see johnx's response
01:44.45ana`well, the nokia bit is surely a late addition, the Joey Hess' line sounds like somebody who used debhelper and left all the default stuff in the rules file
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02:07.00mikem`hi, i'm having trouble getting maemo mapper to download google maps. was wondering whether the google map repository url found here is still valid? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5209
02:11.51mikem`hm, nevermind, all I had to do was "Download Sample Repositories" and i'm set. (yep, i'm a maemo noob)
02:11.52johnx:)
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02:49.25zakkmHey, Is Mer worth trying yet?
02:50.57timelessit works
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02:51.27timelessis glad to see there's a 'file format' menu in the mail app
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03:36.10Macerwtf is the ahl?
03:36.17Macerlike.. poor man's hockey?
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05:51.46timeless~mer ?
05:52.11infobotsomebody said mer was http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer
05:52.11timeless~mer
05:52.12infobotmer is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer
05:52.12timelessinfobot mer?
05:52.13infobot[mer] http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer
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06:42.10Livingroomhey anyone up? i need some help. specifically:
06:42.36Livingroomi did an apt-get upgrade on my n800. it broke; fortunately, i was booting from MMC; how can i go in and disable the lifeguard reset, using the internal flash installation?
06:45.03timelE61ilifeguard is controlled by fashertool
06:45.39Livingroomoh
06:45.58Livingroomwell i get an endless boot loop. is it worth it to go get a livecd and try to disable lifeguard? or should i just reinstall?
06:46.04timelE61iPlay dead is controlled by presence of power - remove battery for a while
06:46.31Livingroomremove the battery? ok
06:47.03timelE61idon't leave it alone if you disable lifeguard
06:47.14Livingroomwhat do you mean?
06:47.47Livingroomdont leave it alone
06:48.08timelE61iLight a fire in a forest
06:48.17timelE61iDo you walk away?
06:48.20Livingroom...
06:48.39Livingroombut this is a pda, not a forest
06:48.46Livingroomit never even leaves my house mostly
06:50.02timelE61iif you'll excuse the metaphore, disabling life guard isn't supported
06:50.10timelE61iPerhaps it voids your warranty
06:50.15Livingroomif it lets the device boot, ill be happy
06:50.19timelE61iIf it does and the device burns up
06:50.29timelE61iBecause you were out...
06:51.09Livingroomwell, what do you reccommend that i do to recover?
06:51.29timelE61ibAby sit it :)
06:51.41Livingroomwhat i mean is, how do i stop the bootloop?
06:51.55timelE61ipull the battery :)
06:52.15timelE61iWhat data is on there that you need
06:52.28timelE61iCan you mount it in a normal computer?
06:52.37Livingroomall i have is windows
06:52.47Livingroomi could try in a livecd, but linux isnt my first OS, so i wouldnt know how
06:53.21timelE61iavoids this stuff
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06:53.54Livingroomwhat if i just ran through the instructions for booting from MMC again, and just recopied over the good install? but if i apt-get upgrade again, it'll just break. argh
06:54.12Livingroomordinarily i can boot safe from a lilo prompt and read the /var/log- but this device does not afford me this opportunity
06:54.47timelE61idid you install syslog?
06:54.56timelE61iBecause normally it ain't there
06:55.34Livingroomi'm fairly certain i did
06:56.16timelE61ithere are ext2/3 viewers for windows
06:56.44timelE61iFind a readonly one and read the log
06:56.51Livingroomi have a working partition on the device though, cant i just mount from there?
06:57.48timelE61ihow uncomfortable is your win box
06:58.00Livingroomnot uncomfortable at all?
06:58.42timelE61iTypicallyy i prefer real keyboards and big screens for log file reading
06:58.52Livingroomwell, you see the thing is
06:59.02Livingroomi SSH into it and voila
06:59.19Livingroombig screen and keyboard. plus with my dual monitors i'm set
06:59.32Livingroomnot to mention the BT keyboard
06:59.42timelE61iand busybox....
06:59.45timelE61iYEck
06:59.53timelE61igoes af-phone
07:00.01timelE61ieither will work
07:00.05timelE61iGood luck
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07:15.47Livingroomanyone around?
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07:22.55LivingroomAHA
07:22.58Livingroomi got it mounted
07:23.01Livingroomnow i have syslog information.
07:23.03Livingroomanyone wanna see?
07:35.52Livingroomit seems to be choking on volume level
07:36.00Livingroomit says Jan 18 01:15:49 Nokia-N800-51-3 ke_recv[1005]: unmount_volumes:833: couldn't unmount /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/volume_uuid_b8ccb54c_8792_4f62_8fd8_23a8acff23e6
07:36.06LivingroomJan 18 01:15:49 Nokia-N800-51-3 exiting on signal 15
07:36.13Livingroomtime's off too
07:36.38Livingroomany idea how to fix that?
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07:45.34timelE61ithere's a date/Time applet in control panel
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08:15.52Livingroomwhere can i get the most up to date sources.list for my n800?
08:19.41timelE61ierr
08:19.51timelE61iDiablo is the latest release
08:20.16timelE61ithere aren't more than 2 main repos
08:20.35timelE61iEverything else is stuff you choose
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08:37.11Livingroomis there a list of repos for n800 or maemo compatable stuff?
08:38.12Meiz_n810gronmayer.com/it
08:38.17Stskeepsonly ones you really want is the nokia repos, and
08:38.19Stskeeps~extras
08:38.20infobotextra, extra, read all about it, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras
08:38.27Stskeeps(and extras-devel)
08:38.37Meiz_n810most of the repos in gronmayer.com/it are useless
08:38.43Livingroomhm
08:38.44Livingroomok
08:38.54Livingroommainly i'm trying to install this turbocharge debian package
08:38.59Livingroomand it wont go, because it says it cant be found.
08:39.09Stskeepsit's in extras-devel i believe
08:39.11Stskeepsor in extras
08:39.15Stskeepsdid you upgrade to diablo?
08:39.41Livingroomdiablo?
08:39.55Livingroomhow do i tell?
08:40.40Meiz_n810do you have the latest tablet firmware by nokia?
08:40.52Stskeepswell, did you upgrade to latest firmware from tablets-dev.nokia.com
08:40.59Livingroomnope
08:41.07Stskeepsyou ought to :P
08:41.11Stskeeps~flashing
08:41.12infoboti guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
08:41.24Stskeepsmakes things a lot easier
08:41.38Livingroomok
08:41.39Livingroomwill do
08:41.43Livingroomwhat will i lose?
08:41.49Livingroomi've already lost one partition.
08:41.52Livingroomhad to reclone
08:42.00Livingroomcan i clone diablo to mmc the same way as the other one?
08:42.36Stskeepsyes
08:42.55Stskeepsgets ready for a mer 0.6 release
08:42.59Livingroomkksweet
08:43.30Stskeepser, 0.7.
08:43.46Livingroomwhats mer?
08:44.05Stskeeps~mer
08:44.06infobotfrom memory, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer
08:45.42Livingroomhmm
08:45.46Livingroomi'm guessing it's not yet stable
08:46.22Stskeepscorrect, but usable, but has quirks
08:46.29Livingroomhm
08:46.34Livingroomill wait for stable
08:46.38Stskeepshehe
08:46.42Livingroomi need mine for certain dedicated tasks; cant afford it to have quirks :)
08:46.45Stskeepsor try out the VMDK release :)
08:46.46glassstable is just a name
08:46.52Stskeepsfor x86 / virtualbox / vmware
08:47.10Livingroomwhat started as an apt-get update ended up in a total reflash and reclone tonight
08:47.18Stskeepsyeah, apt-get dist-upgrade is harmful on maemo
08:47.20Livingrooms/update/upgrade
08:47.41Livingroombut
08:47.43Livingroommy main thing is
08:48.01Livingroomi have to have A) dosbox B) the lcars theme that is so awesome and C) this new debian thing that looks f*cking wicked
08:49.24Stskeepsheh, whereas mer is based on ubuntu and easy debian is useless in that instance :)
08:50.20Stskeepsexcept for the wrappings within xephyr or the likes
08:50.37Livingroomhmm
08:50.46Livingroomholding the swap key is not putting me into that usb mode. what should i do?
08:50.56Livingroomoh
08:50.58StskeepsN800, N810?
08:50.59Livingroomyou're supposed to turn it on
08:51.16Livingroomwhile holding the key. it didnt say that :P:
08:51.31Livingroomwow
08:51.39Livingroomi had firmware 2008se_2.2007.51-3
08:51.43Stskeepsse? :P
08:51.52Livingroomis that old?
08:52.06Stskeepswhat tablet type do you have?
08:52.07Livingroomi'm guessing that's ancient.
08:52.10Livingroomprobably what it shipped with eh?
08:52.15Stskeepsyeah, probably
08:52.17Livingroomthe n800
08:52.21Stskeepswhich are you upgrading to now?
08:52.26Livingroomthe latest diablo
08:52.29Stskeepsk
08:52.35Livingroomdiablo_5.2008.43-7
08:53.17Stskeepssounds right
08:53.19Livingroomshould i be expecting things to be like ridiculously different? like faster etc?
08:53.25Stskeepspossibly
08:53.31Stskeepschinook -> diablo has its benefits
08:53.36Livingroomhm
08:54.22Livingroomi anticipate great things!
08:54.27Livingroomwill i lose my wep and BT settings?
08:55.07Stskeepsyeah, you probably would have wanted to run a backup before flashing
08:55.21Stskeepsbut anyway, this step is a benefit to you.
08:55.29Stskeepsto get rid of old settings and such :P
08:56.50Livingroomi wont be restoring any backups
08:56.57Livingroomdont want old datas
08:57.10Livingroomcramping my style
08:57.23Stskeepsnotes v0.7 vmdk works and gets on to testing next things
08:57.36Livingroomgod
08:57.38Livingroomit feels fast
08:57.38Livingroomlike
08:57.54Livingroommaking the jump from 486-25 to 486 DX2/66
08:57.58Stskeepshehe
08:58.14Stskeepsthat's unfair to the 400mhz processor in it ;)
08:58.42Livingroomhehe
08:58.47Livingroomit's an OMAP isnt it?
08:58.48Livingroomthats like
08:58.58Livingroompackard...bell... or something
08:59.13Stskeepseh.
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08:59.14qwerty12texas instruments
08:59.23Stskeepsyeah, what the kid wiz said
08:59.23Livingroomyeah
08:59.24LivingroomTI
08:59.27LivingroomTI-OMAP
08:59.37StskeepsLivingroom: it also beats the hell out of x86 in terms of power usage :P
08:59.37Livingroomthe celeron of the ARM architecture
08:59.48Stskeepsi'm not so sure anymore really
08:59.50Livingroomxscale beats them all, imo
08:59.56Stskeeps..
09:00.06Stskeepsgets out a baseball bat and bad experiences with alignment traps
09:00.10Livingroommy dell axim x50 used to run ~1100mhz
09:00.40qwerty12:(. My pocket pc was only overclockable to about 600mhz :/
09:00.53Livingroommine was a late model with the new xscales
09:00.57Livingroomcould run it fairly stable at 1000
09:01.02Livingroom1100 was pushing it
09:01.27Livingroomof course i had to buy a 3300mah battery for it
09:01.31Livingroomto run it for more than like 15 minutes
09:01.48qwerty12hehe
09:01.49mavhcxscale was so good intel bought it and killed it, just in case
09:02.09Livingroomi hate them for that.
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09:02.49mavhcintel did try to kill x86 with ia64, but they weren't able to destroy the monster they had created
09:03.44Livingroomi remember when there was an ipaq in every color, flavor, cpu, speed, screen type, dock size and usb speed.
09:03.57Livingroomand ipaq was the lamest name ever
09:04.01Livingroomnext to maybe "ipod"
09:04.06mavhcI have an ipaq, won't turn on
09:04.09Livingroombut they sold by the kajillions
09:04.24mavhcflashes on for half a second, then turns off again
09:04.47Livingroomhm
09:04.50Stskeepsdead battery?
09:05.24mavhcdon't think so, you have do so a weird hard reset thing for it to try to turn on at all
09:06.08Livingroomwhats that cool control panel for maemo with the brightness and volume on the same screen
09:06.26Stskeepsadvanced backlight
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09:08.06Livingroomkk
09:08.23Livingroomi am LOLCATS of BORG. lower your shields and surrender your ships...
09:08.58mavhcI can has phaser?
09:11.26Livingroomlol
09:11.32Livingroomyou'll never guess what i just did.
09:11.36Livingroomnever in a million years
09:11.41Livingroomand if you did, i'd give you a billion dollars.
09:12.15mavhcsat on your cat?
09:12.19Livingroomnope
09:12.35Livingroomi just typed in the cheatkeys for commander keen 4 that my sister is emulating on her netbook with dosbox... so she can have GOD mode
09:12.48mavhcdoes the billion dollars rise with inflation over the million years?
09:12.55Livingroomlol@mavhc
09:13.52Livingroomcrazy thing is
09:13.55Livingroomi remembered them
09:14.01Livingroomand it's been like... 20 years since i played that
09:14.13Livingroomok so iv'e got diablo up
09:14.18Livingroomhow do i add the extras repo?
09:14.24qwerty12~extras
09:14.25infobot[extras] http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras
09:14.48mavhc7 things to get right, god mode is about 1 in 5, dosbox 1 in 5, netbook 1 in 5, sister 1 in 5, specific game 1 in 10000, and typing cheatkeys is what, 1 in a million?
09:15.16mavhcso 1 in 6250000000000 chance
09:15.38Livingroomwe could narrow it down to "typed in the cheat keys for keen 4"
09:16.01mavhcso if I had 1 guess every 5 seconds I would have got it
09:16.33Livingroomin how long a time?
09:16.55mavhc1 million years
09:17.02Livingroomhm
09:17.02Livingroomok
09:17.03mavhc(1 million years) / 6 250 000 000 000 = 5.04910816 seconds
09:17.10Livingroomah
09:17.13Livingroomwell then
09:17.29Livingroomwhats a billion dollars inflation adjusted for a million years from now at our current rate in the US?
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09:18.56mavhclet's say 2% inflation? 1 000 000 000 * (.98^1 000 000) = 0
09:19.26mavhcgot a more accurate calculator?
09:20.03mavhcafter 1000 years it's $1.68
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09:20.24Livingroomhm
09:20.47Livingroomis easy-deb-chroot worth it?
09:21.02Livingroomdoes it actually "boot" its own "OS" or is it just like an overlay?
09:21.29qwerty12an "overlay" on top of maemo. If you want full, booting debian, you should install deblet
09:21.51StskeepsLivingroom: glorified chroot
09:22.26wndmavhc, echo 'scale=1000000000000; 1000000000*(.98^1000000)' | bc
09:22.58wndbe warned it might take a while
09:23.28wnds/a w/aw/
09:23.42Livingroomholy crap
09:23.45Livingroomyour channel does that?
09:23.56mavhc"a while" is better I think
09:23.59Livingrooms/your channel does that?/your channel is very cool.
09:24.09Livingroomhmm
09:24.15qwerty12You forgot to end it with the /
09:24.18Livingrooms/your channel does that?/your channel is very cool./
09:24.28qwerty12and it only works on the last sentence you typed
09:24.33Livingroomlolz
09:24.48mavhcbit daft really, the human can parse much better
09:25.08Stskeepscurses his imager
09:25.17mavhcif it was a client side script that actually editted the history, would be cool
09:25.46Livingroombrbbio
09:26.10mavhcI don't have a fast linux computer ATM, someone formatted it and put win2k3 on it
09:27.44wndno wonder I never learned it: http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/awhile.html
09:30.40Livingroomgeez already screwed up
09:30.50Livingroomwent and installed a bunch of crap on internal. meant to clone first *SIGH*
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09:31.23Stskeepsmorning Meizirkki
09:33.14Livingroomhmm
09:33.21Livingroomenable R&D mode through the red pill method on diablo?
09:33.25Meizirkkimorning Stskeeps
09:33.46StskeepsLivingroom: there's no good need for enabling R&D mode
09:33.49Stskeepsjust install rootsh
09:34.18Livingroomi'm guessing rootsh allows for su - root?
09:34.20Macercrank cracks me up
09:34.56StskeepsLivingroom: yeah, sudo gainroot or whatever, or just rootsh
09:35.21Livingroomk
09:35.22Livingroomalso
09:35.23Livingroomsshd
09:35.29Livingroomfor remote access
09:35.32Stskeepsgrab openssh-server from extras..
09:36.47Livingroomgot it
09:36.50Livingroomback in business LOL
09:37.12Livingroomopenprojects...err. i mean freenode has always been my source of help. thank you guys so much just for exsisting
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09:39.23Stskeepstests 0.7 snapshot
09:39.25*** part/#maemo Ki6AMD (n=ki6amd@c-98-202-71-165.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
09:39.44*** join/#maemo Ki6AMD (n=ki6amd@c-98-202-71-165.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
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09:40.55Stskeepsnotes that crash wasn't expected.
09:40.57Livingroomapt-get install e2fsprogs
09:40.58Livingroomgives:
09:41.08LivingroomPackage e2fsprogs is not available, but is referred to by another package.
09:41.29MeizirkkiEnable extras-devel for that
09:41.54Livingroomo
09:41.56Livingroomit wasnt int he list
09:42.10Stskeepsthere's one on ~extras
09:42.17Livingroom~extras
09:42.22infoboti guess extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras
09:42.23Macercrank is a pretty funny moie
09:42.23Macermovie
09:42.30Macernever saw it before
09:42.38RST38hSts
09:42.43Stskeepsmm?
09:43.19RST38hnothing, just saying hi
09:43.24Stskeepsah, morning :)
09:44.31Livingroomah got it
09:44.31Livingroomthanks
09:44.56Stskeeps~curse ports.ubuntu.com
09:44.57infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, ports.ubuntu.com !
09:47.52Livingroombah
09:48.05Livingroomis it mount -o /dev/mmcblk0p2 /opt ?
09:48.18daperl~sleep
09:48.19infobotsleep is, like, overrated, and a poor substitute for caffeine.
09:48.35Livingroomalso, apt-get isnt finding nano or pico.
09:48.41daperl~zombie
09:48.42infobotLibrary and server for developing networked apps/games.. URL: http://www.infa.abo.fi/~chakie/zombie/
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09:49.01MeizirkkiLivingroom: enable diablo-tools repo for nano
09:49.05LivingroomAAAAUGH
09:49.07Livingroomso many sources
09:49.13Meizirkki:P
09:49.27Livingroomwhere is diablo-tools hidden
09:49.28Livingroom~tools
09:49.29infobothmm... tools is just because the tools are free doesn't mean that you get to completely ignore all the rules and guidelines
09:49.31Stskeepsis just looking forward to mer being stable so he uses it for everyday-work
09:49.38Livingroom~diablo-tools
09:49.53Livingroommer looks ok but needs a new name. "Mer." is just kinda weird
09:50.01Livingroomit's like naming your investment bank "ING"
09:50.41StskeepsLivingroom: makes perfect sense really. sea, "more" in swedish, etc.
09:50.47MeizirkkiLivingroom: search diablo tools from gronmayer.com/it
09:50.47Stskeepsit's a new type of ecosystem :P
09:51.29Stskeepsand trust me, after dealing with maemo for quite a while, stuff like Mer is a blessing :)
09:51.47Livingroomwell
09:51.49Meizirkki"Mer" means noting in finninsh, but "Meri" means sea. :)
09:51.59Stskeepshehe
09:52.10Livingroomas an original early adopter of the Sharp Zaurus Linux PDA... i can say that maemo is A GODDAMN BLESSING on the mobile linux community.
09:52.43Stskeepsoh, we have Mer going on zaurus too.
09:52.57Livingroompeople still use those?
09:53.01Stskeepsseemingily
09:53.15Livingroomwow.
09:53.32daperlbut i always use less, not more
09:53.54Stskeepshehe
09:54.24Stskeepsi am a less fan too, but less is more featureful than less :P
09:54.27Stskeepsthan more
09:54.32Livingroomthis describes my adventures tonight: http://xkcd.com/349/
09:54.50Livingroomwhat started as an apt-get upgrade culminated in a reflash, an upgrade, two reclonings, and the reinstallation of all my apps.
09:54.57Stskeepshehe
09:55.23*** join/#maemo mpk (n=mpk@aggr.com)
09:55.27Livingroomapps... AND SOURCES!
09:55.59daperl~passed out
09:56.16Stskeepsgives daperl some coffee
09:56.20MeizirkkiStskeeps: epiphany-gecko is stable, fast, it has adblocker and it doesn't eat as much memory as midori takes. Epiphany-gecko has a change to become my day-to-day browser once Mer has a bit better power management. If there would be finger scroll, could it be used as a Mer default browser?
09:56.39Livingroomwhat package contains the "locate" command?
09:56.57StskeepsMeizirkki: possibly, right now we're not focusing on that part
09:57.08Meizirkkiokay
09:57.10MeizirkkiThere's a mouse scroll, but it uses middle click :P
09:57.16Stskeepshehe
09:58.31daperlspills scolding brew on crotch, now wide awake
09:59.01qwerty12Interesting method...
09:59.56Livingroomscolding brew? if my coffe talked to me, i'd stop drinking it
10:00.07daperlmcdonald's drive-through on-the-way-to-work method
10:00.49daperldid i mean scaulding? (sp.?)
10:01.02Livingroomscalding i think
10:01.21daperlthanks
10:01.28RST38hLivingroom: Now is a good time to switch back to Windows =)
10:01.57daperlthrow it out the window
10:01.59Livingroomwhy's that?
10:02.31RST38hLiving: reflash, upgrade, two reclonings, reinstallation of all apps
10:02.36Livingroomoh lol
10:02.41Livingroomnow i cant find my locate command AAAUGH
10:03.00*** join/#maemo mpk (n=mpk@aggr.com)
10:03.08Livingroomwhy cant i 'locate' or 'updatedb' ?
10:03.18RST38hBecause your gadget is borked.
10:03.23Stskeepscos maemo is a embedded system
10:03.23Stskeeps:P
10:03.32qwerty12debfarm repo used to have mlocale package but debfarm seems to be down
10:03.39qwerty12s/mlocale/mlocate/
10:04.25Livingroomoh god i cant live without locate
10:04.51*** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@cs181192153.pp.htv.fi)
10:08.22Stskeepswatches imager go at it and hopes apt doesn't f*ck up again
10:09.04*** join/#maemo lbt (n=david@78.32.229.233)
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10:29.59Livingroomhmm
10:30.01Livingroomi did the cloning and
10:30.04Livingroomit didnt give me a boot menu
10:30.05Livingroomwhat gives?
10:30.24Livingroomi skipped option 0 because i already had a partition...should i have done it anyway?
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10:32.49daperlif you don't have a small dos partition as your first you're asking for it
10:32.55Livingroomi do
10:32.59Livingroomi've done this before so the partition table was intact
10:33.09daperlgotcha
10:33.18Livingroomno lilo menu though
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10:34.14Livingroomdamn
10:34.17Livingroomthe clone was messed up
10:34.26Livingroomi mounted mmcblk02 on /opt and all i have is a lost+found
10:34.46daperlthat's not good
10:35.21daperlyou want quick and dirty?
10:35.26Livingroomwhat do you mean?
10:35.45Livingroomi'd love quick and dirty. cp -a / to /opt?
10:36.40daperlif you're in flash you have to to remount the flash root say to /floppy
10:36.56Livingroomsupposedly thats what this shellscript is doing
10:37.32daperlwell, if it failed let's try it manually
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10:38.09daperlthat's how i always do it
10:38.10Livingroomi just dont understand why there's no bootmenu
10:38.51daperllook at /mnt/initfs, is there a bootmenu.sh there?
10:39.27Livingroomthere is not
10:39.52daperlyou're initfs_flash failed
10:40.21Livingroomi'm just going by these steps here http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8631
10:40.24Livingroomare there more i'm not aware of?
10:41.24daperlwell, you seem pretty savvy, so you might want to take more control
10:41.42LivingroomOH SHI-
10:41.46Livingroomi missed step #6
10:42.12daperlare you on it?
10:42.33Livingroomno, i'm past it now. but it's recoverable
10:42.48Livingroomstep 6 does not seem critical to the whole op
10:43.25daperli never use anything but the fanoush script
10:43.42Livingroomthats the one i forgot to use
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10:44.26daperland i partition and copy root manually
10:44.31Livingroomyikes
10:44.37Livingroomi'll pass.
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10:45.18daperldon't pass, it's a one-liner
10:45.54daperldo you have the url to his site?
10:46.20Livingroomhttp://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/#initfs ?
10:46.30daperlis getting url
10:46.58daperlsi
10:50.32*** join/#maemo booiiing (n=[booiiin@e180050216.adsl.alicedsl.de)
10:50.57daperll are you giving it a go?
10:51.22daperls/l/Livingroom/
10:51.23Livingroomyeah
10:51.26Livingroomflashing initfs now
10:51.58Livingroomused custom bootmenu.conf, gutwrench time
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10:54.56daperldo you want me stick around, 'cause i'm gonna pass out?
10:55.21daperls/me/me to /
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10:55.35Livingroomhmm
10:55.38Livingroomsomething went wrong
10:55.46Livingroomyou can pass out if you like
10:55.54Livingroomi just did something strange in bootmenu.conf is all
10:56.04daperldid you get the menu?
10:56.37*** join/#maemo Macer (i=mace@rancorous.net)
10:57.00daperland did you remember to copy over a root fs?
10:57.01Livingroomi do have the menu
10:57.10Livingroomdont know about that copy over a root FS thing, btu
10:57.12Livingroom*but
10:57.39RST38hhm
10:57.55RST38hwonders how many hours it will take Livingroom to sort things out =)
10:58.03Livingroomhehe
10:58.12Livingroomthe good news: McDonalds is now serving brekfast
10:58.53daperlorder off your boot menu
11:00.42RST38hdaperl: You do not want him to crash and brick McDonalds, do you?
11:02.01daperltoo funny
11:02.24Livingroomlol
11:02.59Livingroomi cant make it set a default boot item
11:04.42*** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=roope@bbwirelessgw2-fee7dc00-167.dhcp.inet.fi)
11:05.18StskeepsMeizirkki: waiting for 0.7 images to build (i had fucked something up in the initial run i did last night), and if you have bw left enough i would love some testing
11:05.38daperl~cal-tool
11:06.05MeizirkkiStskeeps: okay
11:06.06lcukRST38h, did you want me last night
11:06.32lcukmornin btw, and ello Stskeeps Meizirkki etc
11:07.09Meizirkkimorning lcuk :)
11:08.03RST38hlcuk: no, was just saying hi =)
11:08.04*** join/#maemo Macer_ (i=mace@rancorous.net)
11:08.18lcukfurry muff :)
11:08.20LivingroomHURRAY
11:08.33LivingroomSUCCESSFUL BOOT OF IMMC2 AT 5:08AM 02/01/08!
11:08.34*** join/#maemo MaceN800 (n=MaceN800@rancorous.net)
11:08.45*** join/#maemo pH5 (n=ph5@e178211071.adsl.alicedsl.de)
11:09.08lcukwhats goin down in mer town then - have we got a decent system now
11:09.16daperlcool, night night
11:09.25Stskeepslcuk: 0.7 coming out today, and yeah, it is more usable than 0.6
11:09.44Stskeepswe have an xterm and such :P
11:09.54lcuknice i saw jaffa has put h-i-m in, and something about the control panel - is that all modules?
11:10.40Stskeepshildon application manager yeah, and control panel with the status bar applet config
11:11.01Stskeepsi'm not sure what API they have but it sure as hell could have been better.. :P
11:11.40lcukits always a battle between desires and practicality
11:11.48timelessum
11:11.50timelessqwerty?
11:11.56timelessxchat blinks way too much
11:11.59timelessit's bad for my battery
11:12.19timelessit it needs my attention, it should use a task notification
11:12.24timelessnot a blinking icon (two actually!)
11:12.34Stskeepstwo? on maemo it's only one, i think
11:12.42timelessnope,two
11:12.42qwerty12That's the sort of thing that probably should be taken up with upstream
11:12.45timelesson in status bar
11:12.47timelessone in app list
11:12.56qwerty12You can disable the status bar one
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11:13.08timelessdo me a favor and file it?
11:13.17timelessi can file it and have andre__ refile if you ask
11:13.19timelessbut i'd rather not
11:13.54lcukare we gonna have xchat in the default install?
11:13.55lcuk:D
11:13.56Stskeepswell it isn't an official xchat hildonizing :P
11:15.20timelesstimeless_mer
11:15.33timeless/query timeless_mer
11:15.33timelesspoke
11:15.51Livingroomafk guys
11:17.14timelessqwerty: what's a tray baloon
11:17.18timelessand why can't i see it?
11:18.19qwerty12Extremely annoying, believe me. You have to install some libnotify stuff to see them (never tried on tablet, did it in ubuntu and hated it).
11:18.32timelessheh
11:18.38Livingroomwhat repo has dosbox?
11:18.59Stskeepsextras i think
11:19.15Livingroomhmm
11:19.16qwerty12pupnik's build is on his site
11:19.22Livingroomi have extras installed, but ...no dosbox
11:19.44qwerty12http://pupnik.de/dosbox.html
11:20.46Livingroomhmm
11:20.51Livingroomhow to install a deb locally, though. interesting...
11:21.07Stskeepsdownload and double click it?
11:21.08Stskeeps:P
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11:27.07Stskeepsjohnx: http://i.gizmodo.com/5143547/how+to-install-ubuntu-on-your-ps3-for-vintage-gaming-emulation <- another possibility for Mer/powerpc ;)
11:27.55des^lol
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11:40.18LivingroomAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGH
11:40.32Livingroomwhy dont they build mobile devices WITH BUILT IN MATH-CO PROCESSORS?!?!
11:40.40Livingroomit's called a floating point unit.
11:40.42Stskeepsthey're slow? :P
11:40.45LivingroomUSE IT FOR GODS SAKE
11:41.01mavhcwhy do you want floating point?
11:41.02qwerty12N8x0 has a vfp...
11:41.10Livingroomvirtual = sux0rs
11:41.15Livingroomit needs a dedicated FPU.
11:41.29herz1Stskeeps: that not true nowadays
11:41.44mavhcthey have DSPs
11:43.00Stskeepsherz1: true, that was a totally unfounded statement from me :)
11:43.20Livingroomso how are these fools on youtube running KDE on the N800?
11:43.59*** join/#maemo Jucato (n=Jucato@124.106.192.249)
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11:44.57suihkulokki<PROTECTED>
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11:45.24Livingroomv for ...vendetta? no. i googled; i see it means vector. what does that mean?
11:47.39mavhcit's dsp-ish?
11:48.17herz1Livingroom: maybe the just replay a video recorded on the desktop?
11:48.26herz1*they
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11:52.39Meizirkki!!!
11:52.46Meizirkkifennec is in jaunty repo
11:52.50Meizirkki:
11:52.52Meizirkki)
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11:56.31timelessif it's there, i don't see it
11:56.35timelessis it not in user/ ?
11:57.28qwerty12Probably not, I don't think jaunty people cater for h-a-m's needs
11:58.15timelessaww, we need to fix that :)
12:00.48*** join/#maemo Macer (i=mace@rancorous.net)
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12:05.11timelesssp3001: how do i kill application manager when its stupid catalogs dialog is open but not responding?
12:05.34*** part/#maemo timeless_mer (n=timeless@a88-115-12-126.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
12:05.50timelessqwerty...
12:05.56timelessYou are connected to 1 IRC networks
12:06.07timelessif it can't count to 1, it should use network(s)
12:06.16timelessif it can, it should avoid showing the s :)
12:07.45*** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@165-45.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi)
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12:12.53timelesstries to install fennec
12:15.34Meizirkkifennec in mer is just as crappy it's in maemo
12:15.37Meizirkki:(
12:15.41Stskeepsscrshots?
12:16.00Meizirkkisec
12:17.04RST38hWas it a surprise? :)
12:17.55MeizirkkiRST38h: nope :P
12:18.09Meizirkkibut it seems to be even worse
12:18.25Meizirkkifont is really small...
12:18.38*** join/#maemo Macer__ (i=mace@rancorous.net)
12:19.43*** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at)
12:20.34MeizirkkiStskeeps: couple of screenshots: http://trac.tspre.org/meiz
12:20.34*** join/#maemo pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0C0BA.access.telenet.be)
12:20.34RST38hThey are releasing WinMobile version real soon now, so rejoice! =)
12:21.09RST38hdid make himself write initial 65816 emulation
12:21.49StskeepsMeizirkki: mmkay
12:22.32RST38hbtw what is roope? can we have it in diablo? =)
12:23.12Macer__last time i tried fennec on my n800 it kinda sucked
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12:29.14slonopotamusshow me, please, bootmenu config file for mer
12:29.56Stskeepshttp://rafb.net/p/VgRhQq17.html
12:30.06slonopotamusthx
12:31.19slonopotamusITEM_FSOPTIONS="noatime,ro" ???
12:31.22Stskeepsyeah
12:31.25slonopotamuswtf?
12:31.37Stskeepsmounting the fs noatime and read-only like kernel does it
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12:32.08slonopotamuswho remounts in rw?
12:32.29Stskeepsthe init scripts, when having done fsck
12:32.44slonopotamusk
12:32.44*** join/#maemo MaceN800 (n=MaceN800@rancorous.net)
12:33.48slonopotamusi'm still fighting with init :(
12:34.18slonopotamusi can't get text console right for some reason
12:34.30slonopotamusor it looks like i can't :)
12:35.04slonopotamusanyway, it doesn't boot
12:35.35slonopotamusgone for reboot
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12:47.59wazdhey everybody)
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12:48.13Macerwow... democrats have a 60/40 lead in the senate
12:48.17Macercrazy
12:48.26timelessfrankin won?
12:48.34timelessor the other one?
12:49.15Macerthe guy from NH
12:49.18wazdit's chaaaange!!!11
12:49.22Macerhaha
12:49.27Macerholy fuck that is a huge senate lead
12:49.36Macernot to mention the HoR
12:49.46RST38hhey awazd
12:49.49Macerobama is going to be able to just streamline shit through
12:49.50wazdYes we can!11 Yes we caaannn!211
12:49.58RST38hWhat Senate?
12:50.07timelessthere's only one that matters
12:50.07RST38hAh, THAT Senate
12:50.14Macerhahaha
12:50.43RST38hgets some peanuts, popcorn, and prepares to watch the next season of this macabre soap opera
12:50.47Macerdemocrats control 60 senate seats
12:50.49wazdRST38h: heya :)
12:50.58Macerthat is outrageous
12:51.12timelessgot a url for this?
12:51.15timelessi can't find it
12:51.17StskeepsMacer: well just shows the republicans -really- fucked up :P
12:52.09AStormor that your new dark-skinned (political correctness ;) ) leader has really good press
12:52.18AStormbtw, hello
12:52.20wazddon't care bout US&A senate, wazd cares bout animated icons )
12:52.32Maceri'm watching it on c-span
12:52.45MacerAStorm hahaha
12:53.00wazdAStorm: "dark-skinned is offencive!
12:53.11wazdAstorm: afro-american!
12:53.19AStormwhatever
12:53.25AStormI could've said just black
12:53.40soapless offensive than you nearly saying "darkie"
12:53.40wazdAStorm: Yes we can!11
12:53.43wazdxD
12:54.46AStormsoap: I think so too, some people actually think it *is* offensive to call someone black. Damned fascists.
12:55.24mavhche hasn't got an afro, can't call him afro-american, what about skinhead, that can't be offensive?
12:55.38AStormuhm, it can
12:55.41mavhcwhat do you call non american black people?
12:55.50RST38hmavhc: negroes?
12:56.01AStormmavhc: I'd call them black or African, maybe negro?
12:56.15mavhceveryone's african
12:56.31RST38hmavhc: Even poor guys who happened to be born outside Africa?
12:56.38AStormthey were there longer, yes
12:56.41AStorm:>
12:57.00mavhcI prefer "human"
12:57.14RST38hmavhc: that is offensive too
12:57.18mavhcwithout the quotes, with is just wrong
12:57.43RST38hmavhc: it destroys one's heritage by using a race/nationality/etc neutral word
12:58.05AStormyes, it sounds communist
12:58.12Macerwow .. there really is NOTHING to watch on actual tv
12:58.16AStormyou're damned by that already
12:58.23mavhcMacer: welcome to 2001
12:58.26Maceri don't understand why networks aren't going bankrupt along with everybody else
12:58.34RST38hSounds like "hummus" too. I feel offended now.
12:58.37mavhcpeople are retarded
12:58.42RST38hMacer: Give 'em time.
12:58.47mavhc50% of people have a 2 digit IQ for a start
12:58.56Macercspan2 has a guy that is so white.. he is making the things around him glow calling himself a "Muslim Historian"
12:58.58Macerhahha
12:59.16RST38hAt least one US senator is blue/silvery-skinned
12:59.24mavhcalien
12:59.25RST38hI wonder what you would call THAT
12:59.34Stskeepssmurf.
12:59.34Stskeeps:P
12:59.48mavhche's a US senator? I'll bet on calling him and old white guy
12:59.52Macerthere are 5 white people... who are obviously not muslim.. sitting at a table all talking about their book Blind Spot
12:59.52RST38hOffensive to smurfs.
13:00.08mavhcobviously?
13:00.09Macerwhich is about how people don't get Islam
13:00.20RST38hMacer: A moment, lemme locate that article...
13:00.31mavhcmaybe they converted
13:00.41Macermavhc - like malcolm X?
13:00.53Macermost white people of this caliber go to club fed
13:01.05Maceri don't think there is much need for muslim conversion there in order to protect yourself
13:01.28AStormmavhc: nah
13:01.30AStorm50% *can't* have 2-digit IQ
13:01.32AStormor the scale would be broken
13:01.34AStormIQ is relative
13:01.36AStormto others in the same population
13:01.37mavhcwhat muslims need is a crazy spinoff religion where rich people pay
13:01.44AStormabout 20% are expected to have IQ of 100
13:01.45*** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=slonopot@80.90.119.73)
13:01.52AStorm+/- 5
13:01.59mavhcAStorm: I'm using floating point
13:02.01AStormhave a bell curve ;P
13:02.08Macer20 federal agencies are protecting the super bowl
13:02.13mavhcexactly, 50% above 100, 50% below
13:02.18RST38hEnjoy the good senator for now: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2297471.stm
13:02.21Maceramazing
13:02.24AStormyes, so?
13:02.32mavhcwhat's so super about this bowl anyway, does it stop your ceral getting soggy?
13:02.33AStormwith 100 being the expected average
13:02.42suihkulokkimost people think they are smarter than average ;)
13:02.48AStormand IQ precision is about 10 points
13:02.52AStormof most tests
13:02.57mavhc99% of people surveyed thought they were better than average drivers
13:03.00AStormyou can have that much variance
13:03.07Ziccan you confirm that the ARM v6 cpu on the N800 is more powerful than a ARM v4 processor on a Freerunner ? they are both cadenced รƒย  600Mhz
13:03.13Zics/รƒย /at/
13:03.14AStormmavhc: idiots ;P the *average* is the average
13:03.18Maceri would figure that the NFL would pay for super bowl security
13:03.22Macernot the taxpayers
13:03.24mavhcAStorm: is your point lots of people are exactly 100?
13:03.25AStormmavhc: but it's the known individualistic delusion
13:03.36AStormmavhc: lots are very close to 100
13:03.38Macer20 federal agencies for a football game?
13:03.47AStormthanks to bell curve
13:03.53mavhcAStorm: 50% of those very close are below, 2 digits
13:03.59AStormyes, so?
13:04.08AStormas I said, IQ tests aren't precise enough
13:04.10mavhcso 50% of people have 2 digit iq
13:04.10wazdZic: I think n800 CPU is 400 MHz or something
13:04.12suihkulokkiMacer: yes, in case someone shows a nipple
13:04.20suihkulokkiyou can never be too carefull
13:04.25Zicwazd: yes it is, just a typo, sorry
13:04.32AStormtrue, but 2-digit eq close to 100 doesn't tell you if a person is stupider than average
13:04.34AStormtoo much noise
13:04.43MacerNBC made 206M$
13:04.44Zicwazd: but performances are "visible" between v6 and v4 ?
13:04.52Macerwhy aren't they paying for some of this crap ?
13:05.49AStorm(the expected range for most "average" people is 90-100-110)
13:06.40AStormof course, if the test (different) is taken many times, the actual noise should average out
13:06.48AStormand you get your own true value
13:07.10RST38hMacer: Enjoy: http://exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=7031&IBLOCK_ID=35&phrase_id=20637
13:07.36mavhcAStorm: 68.27% of people are between 84-116
13:07.44AStormyes
13:07.55AStormclose to 50 between 90 and 100
13:08.36AStorm90 and 110 (stupid keyboard!)
13:08.46AStorm33% between 84 and 100
13:09.39StskeepsZic: vfp ability prolly helps in some cases :P
13:09.42AStorm*you* might be there and think yourself above average ;P
13:09.47RST38hAStorm,mavhc: just want to point out that IQ value cannot be weighted against the whole population simply because you do not have the numbers for the whole population to get the mean from
13:10.01ZicStskeeps: vpf ability?
13:10.04AStormRST38h: but we have representative groups, almost as good
13:10.06RST38hI.e. it may be weighted against some data computed some time ago, for some group of people
13:10.11AStormyes
13:10.13mavhcRST38h: but we can have a confidence interval
13:10.20AStormpopulational was considered at one time
13:10.29AStormbut it looked as if people were getting dumber with time
13:10.38AStormso they threw the idea out the window
13:10.47StskeepsZic: http://syslog.movial.fi/archives/46-N800-VFP-or-not-to-VFP.html
13:10.52AStorm(as in, old people = stupid)
13:10.56Stskeepswhich armv4t doesn't have, AFAIK
13:11.01AStormand they noticed a few sharp jumps in IQ too
13:11.04RST38hAStorm: Well, the amount of IQ given to Earthlings by the Wise Tentacled One is constant while the population is constantly increasing...
13:11.09AStorm(in age groups)
13:11.24AStormuh, no
13:11.50AStormactually, using older measures of IQ, it's increasing slowly, linearly
13:11.55RST38hMacer: BTW, I can personally sign under each word of that article. It does look gross if you haven't watched it for a while.
13:12.21AStormbut there were a bunch of spikes (both up and down)
13:12.44AStormthat's why now IQ is measured in age groups, not whole population
13:13.25AStormsome people tried to prove that race determines IQ... actually, they failed
13:13.31AStormenvironment does though
13:13.38AStorm(a bit)
13:14.08RST38hAStorm: Let us just assume that the gradual increase in Earth's global IQ is a product of Tentacled One's gastrointestinary processes
13:14.24AStormthat's why you can expect an average Afro-american to score similarly to slums White.
13:14.25mavhcreally need more ram in internet tablets, does it affect battery life?
13:14.38AStormRST38h: or global warming ;P
13:14.43AStormmavhc: try compcache!
13:14.46RST38hAStorm: Which leads us to a simple solution
13:14.54AStormmavhc: it shouldn't affect battery life a whole lot
13:15.14AStormI'd expect 2-3%
13:15.15mavhcneeds more ram then, anyone good at soldering? :-)
13:15.28RST38hAStorm: By feeding part of the world population to the Tentacled One, we both decrease population and increase His gastrointestinary activity thus increasing avreage human's IQ
13:15.31AStormmavhc: uhhh, OMAP 2 doesn't support more I think
13:15.42AStormYou'd have to wire in a controller
13:15.46mavhcah
13:15.50RST38hmavhc: you are screwed there, I am afraid...it is integrated into one of the chips
13:15.53AStormRST38h: prove it
13:16.02AStormalso, who is that Tentacled One (I know the True Name)
13:16.04AStorm;P
13:16.13mavhcwhen they say all-in-one chip, they mean it then
13:16.13AStormRST38h: it's not
13:16.25AStormit's a separate DRAM chip, controller *is* integrated though
13:16.38AStormbut, you could abuse Linux
13:16.45AStormhave RAM look like flash chip
13:16.52AStormthen, use it for swapping
13:17.01AStormpeople actually did that
13:17.05mavhca literal ram disk
13:17.09AStormyes
13:17.36ZicStskeeps: thanks, but even if VFP or not VFP... :) A friend told me that the ARM v4 processor on the Freerunner is really slower than the ARM v6 (without speak about software influence, just hardware theory)
13:17.45RST38hAStorm: Heres is the canonical image of the Tentacled One *explaining* a few technical details to Nokia engineers: http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/absurdopedia/images/8/8b/Wageslave_large.jpg
13:17.46AStormmavhc: btw, try compcache already
13:17.54Zic(ARM v6 which is on N8*0 IT)
13:17.59mavhcwithout software all cpus are limited to 9.8m/s/s
13:18.54AStormmavhc: limited to what?
13:18.56RST38hAStorm: Well, if I understand GAN's explanation correctly, it is an integrated DRAM+NAND chip
13:18.59StskeepsZic: i wasn't positively impressed by the freerunner when spending some days nearby it
13:19.07RST38hAStorm: So, no hope upgrading it
13:19.12mavhclimited to gravity
13:19.13AStormRST38h: it is, but that doesn't stop you from adding another one
13:19.15AStorm:P
13:19.31AStormRST38h: except that RAM controller supports 256 MB afaicr
13:19.36suihkulokkiRST38h: they are not *integrated* they are *stacked* - omap + dram + nand on top of each others
13:19.37AStorm(but flash does support much more)
13:19.58AStormyes
13:20.05AStormof course, you can't rip out any
13:20.06AStorm:P
13:20.15ZicStskeeps: ah ! you are interesting me, what's your opinion about Freerunner ? (in comparaison with N8*0 IT, because I'm hesitating to sell my Nokia IT because I order a Freerunner recently)
13:20.17AStormbut, there are spare pins
13:20.32RST38hsuihkul: From the point of view of a guy with a soldering iron, that is integrated =)
13:20.39*** join/#maemo housetier (n=housetie@unaffiliated/housetier)
13:20.46StskeepsZic: i'd keep the NIT personally and only buy freerunner if you want to hack things on to it
13:20.46AStormRST38h: yes, *but* you can add another chip.
13:20.54AStormexactly one another chip :P
13:20.54Stskeepsif you want an actual usable phone, get a cheap nokia :P
13:21.12RST38hFreerunner is pretty useless as a consumer device
13:21.19RST38hNIT is actually useful
13:21.23AStormRST38h: not that it'd be easy, adding traces to the CPU
13:21.32ZicStskeeps: I own an HTC Touch, and yes, it runs Windows Mobile ;-(
13:21.35AStormactually, I'd call it "bloody hard"
13:21.48AStormor "nigh-impossible"
13:21.59ZicRST38h: but NIT does not have any GSM modem ;-)
13:22.00AStormdepending on your skill with adding sockets and availability of reflow
13:22.14Zicand I don't want to use my Freerunner as an Internet device, just a beta phone
13:22.16StskeepsZic: next one will have hsdpa
13:22.16*** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@cpc1-oldh7-0-0-cust232.manc.cable.ntl.com)
13:22.22johnxhallo :)
13:22.26AStormmeh, even a socket won't do, unless you make one
13:22.27Zic(I kept my HTC Touch for every days phone)
13:22.27AStormjohnx: hi
13:22.43StskeepsZic: in term of openness and such, HTC touch is probably even more useful than freerunner :P
13:22.45Zic(even if it runs the *evil* Windows Mobile)
13:22.56ZicStskeeps: you are right :P
13:23.10AStormmavhc: so, you're most likely out of luck here
13:23.10AStormmavhc: you'd have to add a few traces to CPU pins
13:23.27AStormmavhc: for now, try out compcache to save some RAM at CPU time cost
13:23.29RST38hZic: A cheap slim Samsung will save your day
13:23.40AStormbtw, could someone package that kernel module?
13:23.41ZicStskeeps: about the hsdpa, just 3,5G connection, or GSM too ?
13:23.42RST38hZic: At a really competitive cost too
13:24.25StskeepsZic: i suspect gsm too, else always-on is kinda bad :P
13:24.54AStormRST38h: I have one cheap slim Samsung myself :P
13:25.12AStormthis U700 has a nasty habit of USB hanging after you use bluetooth
13:25.21AStormand a few weird touch buttons
13:25.26ZicStskeeps: I don't like GSM modem (even if I need a phone...), just a cellular data connection an not a GSM will be fine
13:25.27AStormother than that, it's fine
13:25.36StskeepsZic: GPRS is GSM ..
13:25.36Stskeeps:P
13:25.39RST38hAStorm: ah who care about USB on it...
13:25.41RST38hcares
13:25.48AStormRST38h: I do, when I connect it to the laptop
13:25.51AStormto use as a modem
13:25.58AStormbluetooth is limited too 300 kbps or so
13:26.01RST38hAStorm: It just has to call and provide GPRS over BT
13:26.02AStorm*to
13:26.08AStormyes
13:26.14AStormbut BT is too slow for some reason
13:26.23AStormI don't know why, it does support all the fast protocols
13:26.47ZicStskeeps: hmm, afaik, HSPDPA exists without GSM modem (?)
13:26.53StskeepsZic: yeah, probably
13:26.53RST38hYou can probably get a slim S40-based Nokia or an E51 for the same purpose
13:26.55AStormGSM != GPRS
13:26.57RST38hBut it will be more expensive
13:27.04Stskeepsjust saying that it would be useful to include 2G in 3G chipset :P
13:27.17RST38hSts: Isn't it there by default?
13:27.18AStormStskeeps: that was mentioned to be in next NIT
13:27.29AStormto make normal calls
13:27.35AStormRST38h: need not be, but may
13:27.39ZicStskeeps: size of NIT are not very confortable to make normal call :)
13:27.41StskeepsRST38h: not sure. people were pissed off to not have 2g access on iphone 3g i think
13:27.44AStormactually, the difference is software
13:27.46Stskeepsi'm not talking about calls.
13:27.48Stskeepsi'm talking about data.
13:28.00AStormStskeeps: that would be stupid on Apple part
13:28.09AStormas the only difference is modulation
13:28.19AStormand turbo symbols
13:28.28AStorm(not used in EDGE)
13:29.13Zicno, hypothetic GSM modem for the next NIT or next NIT+1 ?
13:29.18Zics/no/so/
13:29.20RST38hSts: iPhone is a different animal
13:30.01AStormZic: yes, I think it was confirmed officially even?
13:30.07AStormfor the next one
13:30.58rzrhi
13:31.08Stskeepslo rzr
13:31.11rzrsome links are broken on mer 0.7 page
13:31.15Stskeepsyes, i know
13:31.18rzrok
13:31.19Stskeepsit's in the process of being released
13:31.26rzrok great
13:31.30rzri'll review it soon
13:31.34Stskeepsi was delayed by a freaking race condition
13:31.41ZicAStorm: for the codenamed unofficially by the community "N900" ? I just heard about a "cellular data connection thanks to HSDPA, but nothing about a GSM modem
13:31.47Zic(if somebody can confirm...)
13:32.03rzrStskeeps: take your time
13:32.16Zicmaybe N900+1 will come with a GSM modem ? :P
13:32.25AStormZic: it has to support those distress calls
13:32.29AStormso, definitely GSM
13:32.43AStormmaybe hardcoded, but still
13:32.44RST38hZic: It will have to have GSM
13:32.49Jucatowill diea of jealousy if the next IT will have built-in GSM features...
13:32.49Zicoh, ok
13:32.51Zicthanks ;)
13:32.56RST38hAStorm: N900 does not have to support distress calls
13:33.03RST38hAStorm: Because it is not a phone
13:33.10StskeepsRST38h: i'm really really starting to wonder if they are making it into a phone
13:33.14Zichmm, but canibal issue into Nokia : N97 and "N900" ? both phones ?
13:33.16Stskeepsthe pre-alphas are showing -really- weird stuff
13:33.22AStormin some parts of the world, it is required for any device with call functionality
13:33.29AStormusing GSM networks
13:33.36RST38hAStorm: OTOH, as they will most likely use the same baseband hw as used in their phones, it will most likely have GSM
13:33.40AStormyes
13:33.42AStormthat too :)
13:33.57AStormeven if they don't implement it fully, we'll have a nice hacking ground
13:33.59RST38hsuspects voice calling will be disabled though, 2G or 3G
13:34.11Zicrsalveti: disabled on software ?
13:34.16Zicor hardware ?
13:34.16AStormRST38h: unlikely, I suspect it will be done fully in hardware
13:34.27AStormas a special soundcard or such
13:34.38AStormmuch easier than writing the software
13:34.53Zicbecause if hardware supports 2G and/or 3G and does not have software function to work, maybe some hackers can... hack :)
13:34.54AStormhope they will describe it enough
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13:37.06RST38hAStorm: Normally, it is done on a separate chip (usually 50-90MHz ARM) that is provided by another manufacturer
13:37.35RST38hAStorm: Connected through I2C or a similar bus and talking AT command set, for most features
13:37.38Stskeepsthere's a BB5 in the tablets already, probably not that difficult :P
13:40.13Zichave we got some infos of the release date for the next NIT ?
13:40.33RST38hZic: summer 2009, approximately
13:40.42RST38hZic: Check iTT for all the other rumors
13:40.51Zicoh, I already check :D
13:40.57RST38his out, picking flowersss
13:41.04Zic:)
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13:41.18AStormRST38h: yes, but what about audio IO?
13:41.42AStorm:)
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13:52.26ZicRST38h: do you think that, even if software does not support it, with installing third-software like Zhone, we will can make calls with the next NIT so ?
13:52.33*** join/#maemo pcfe (n=pcfe@a88-115-5-215.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
13:53.23timelE61iyOu could install skype!
13:53.55timelE61iWell, at least you could for the n800/n810 :)
13:55.05ZicSkype is evil, like my actual Windows Mobile phone ;-)
13:55.38Zicbut I could configure my tablet as a VoIP phone only too, yeah :P
13:56.47Stskeepsskype on n8x0 keeps me and the fiancรฉe close when she's abroad
13:56.49Stskeepsit's really nice :)
13:57.39Zic(you use the word "fiancรƒยฉe" in english ? huhu)
13:58.07Stskeepsi'm a dane :P
13:58.16Zicand I'm french :)
14:00.05johnx"English doesn't borrow from other languages, it mugs them in dark alleys and rifles through their pockets for loose grammar."
14:00.44Stskeepsmorning johnx
14:01.58timelE61iisn't the accent on the last e?
14:02.13timelE61iBut yes, we import french words
14:02.22timelE61iNaรฏve ...
14:02.41ZictimelE61i: I know for somes words, like we import english words in french, but not for "fiancรƒยฉe" or "naรƒยฏve"
14:02.55Zicand the accent is on the first e, yes :)
14:02.59timelE61iCoรถperate (although rarely properly written?
14:03.41timelE61iisn't certain about that word's heritage
14:04.05*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
14:04.12Zicwe have the verb coopรƒยฉrer in french... but not coรƒยถperate word
14:04.16Stskeepsjohnx: waiting for 770 build, been a little delayed due to a stupid race condition in NFS + imager
14:04.31wndhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_of_French_origin
14:04.48Zicwnd: oh, I don't know about this page :)
14:07.00johnxStskeeps, sounds awesome. I'm definitely going to kick the zaurus hardware support and imager into shape for feb15
14:07.26timelE61iok, seems we inserted the accent on our own, but i'd assume the word root came from the french
14:10.30Stskeepsjohnx: got early vmdk and n800 tar.gz if you wanna test quickly
14:10.36Stskeeps770 takes a bit of time so
14:14.14johnxStskeeps, grabbing the .tar.gz, eating curry+rice :)
14:14.32Stskeepswhat tar.gz? :P
14:14.54johnxthe one you'll tell me about? :D
14:15.01Stskeepsah, yes
14:15.35Stskeepswe so need an animation between the dialogs..
14:15.45johnxyup, I can do that.
14:15.57johnxI'm probably going to refactor that script O_O;
14:16.00Stskeepshehe
14:16.06johnxit's a little unwieldy
14:16.18*** join/#maemo gomiam (n=Administ@84.79.25.26)
14:19.11Stskeepsnotes idly that checking for packages update time is inversely proportional to the amount of packages it shows
14:22.48*** join/#maemo ken-p (n=unknown@84.92.70.37)
14:22.55gomiamStskeeps: that would point to the discarding algorithm being somewhat flawed.
14:23.56Stskeepsgomiam: well, Hildon Application Manager is not built for showing all the Ubuntu packages :)
14:24.05gomiamoh XD
14:24.07Zichttp://www.nokian900.com/nokia-n900-internet-tablet-rumors/#more-15
14:24.22Zicdon't know his source but he say : Nokia N900 will have support for Quad-band GSM, HSDPA, WiMAX, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth.
14:24.25*** join/#maemo L0cutus (n=L0cutus@host-84-222-88-232.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
14:24.29Zic"Quad-band GSM"
14:24.46johnxZic, that makes sense
14:24.52Zictake a look at his Freerunner order
14:24.57Zichmm :>
14:25.09johnxI've never heard of an HSPA chipset that didn't also support GSM/GRPS...
14:25.29Zicjohnx: in somes old pre-netbook family, yes it exists
14:25.36Stskeepssuccess on VMDK, N8x0 image
14:25.38Stskeeps, rootstrap
14:25.39Zicbut in a portable device, you are right
14:25.50*** join/#maemo pupnik (n=pupnik@pD95FCBBC.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:26.36johnxwonder if we'll see wimax in the same device as HSPA...
14:26.56Stskeepsdoubtful re wimax.. unless they put in a software defined radio or something
14:26.58Stskeeps:P
14:27.05Stskeeps(which would be leet, btw. :P)
14:27.13johnxacually, that page looks more like a wishlist...
14:27.29Stskeepsor a adsite
14:28.06johnxyes. it looks like that too
14:28.59johnxI think I'm most curious about form factor and price at this point
14:29.02Stskeepsjohnx: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.7 btw - impressive what has happened in 14 days :P
14:29.31johnxit only took 14 days to make the page blank?
14:29.40Stskeepswtf.
14:29.41Stskeepsnot again.
14:29.44Stskeepsctrl-f5 :P
14:29.55johnxyeah, shift-control-r
14:29.58Stskeepsor ctrl-r :P
14:30.05johnxctrl-r didn't cut it
14:30.54Stskeepsmaemo.org messing up i thin
14:30.55Stskeepsk
14:31.23johnxwe really have no luck with our hosting, huh?
14:31.48Stskeepshey, last open source project i had was cursed. it bankrupted the hosting companies
14:31.51Stskeeps:P
14:31.54johnxO_o
14:32.09johnxheh...but then again, it was somewhat popular :)
14:32.11Stskeepsno clue why but i have seen quite a big deal of bankruptcies in donated hosting
14:33.06johnximagine that
14:33.16johnxand it seemed like such a solid business plan, too :)
14:33.23Zic"As Nokia N800 and Nokia N810 were criticized about the big sizes, it seems the N900 will be a bit smaller, just like iPhone, with a 3.5รขย€ยณ display."
14:33.32Zichmm
14:33.35johnxZic, that's an adsite
14:33.42Stskeepsprobable bullshit :P
14:33.57Zicjohnx: I know, but just imagine :)
14:34.02mavhcwho criticized it? it fits in your pocket, qed
14:34.20ZicNIT will become just smartphones...
14:34.25Zicone day ;)
14:34.32johnxmavhc, well, lots of people said it was too big to hold up to your face and make calls with
14:34.45johnxZic, well, they are changing the name...
14:34.48mavhcit's not a phone, stop holding it up to your face you plonker
14:35.03Stskeepsuses headset extensively
14:35.06Stskeepsworks a lot better
14:35.08Stskeepstablet in pocket
14:35.18johnxmavhc, the next one will likely be making calls at least...
14:35.31johnxStskeeps, are you one of those people who wander everywhere with a bt headset in your ear?
14:35.51Stskeepsjohnx: no, n800-provided headphones
14:36.01Stskeepsbut that's just when i'm on the road
14:36.16wazdAny hardware deails bout n900 are 99% crap)
14:36.27mavhcjohnx: better than walk around with a phone on your ear
14:36.31wazddetails
14:36.55*** join/#maemo z72ka (n=hermanj@rb5dg22.net.upc.cz)
14:37.09johnxmavhc, but I mean *all the time.* There were people at my last job who put them in in the morning and took them out before bed
14:37.18johnxI assume they took them out anyways...
14:37.30Stskeepsborg people
14:37.31Stskeeps:P
14:37.33mavhccybermen
14:37.40mavhcdid they have 2?
14:37.40johnxex-military O_o
14:37.45Stskeepsborg.
14:37.45Stskeeps:P
14:37.52Stskeeps;)
14:38.02johnxhey, he got stuff *done* and no mistake
14:38.20johnxbut you can never tell if he was talking to you or to the voices in his head...
14:38.23Stskeepshehe
14:38.28wazdAbout the storage, Nokia may have 16GB internal storage capacity, as well as a miniSDHC slot to extend it to your needs.
14:38.35wazdwho wrote that?)
14:38.37Stskeepswell as long as he was turning a good profit from the voices in the head..
14:38.39mavhcso really what you want is a big flashing light on his head when he's online
14:38.41johnxwazd, how about 32GB and microSDHC :)
14:38.50mavhcminisd is dead
14:38.54wazdThe web browsing will be done using an Internet Browser from Opera, supporting all common standards.
14:38.57Stskeeps....
14:38.58Stskeepswtf
14:39.14johnxwazd, that's what triggered my bullshit meter :)
14:39.15wazdThe author of that site is a total dumbass)
14:39.30johnxwazd, but he's making money off ads for sure :)
14:39.32*** join/#maemo b-man (n=b-man@cpe-98-31-62-244.woh.res.rr.com)
14:39.37Stskeepslo b-man
14:39.51mavhcgo and click all his ads a lot, trigger the fraud detector
14:39.56johnxmavhc, I guess I should get my own borg goggles and some detectors so I can tell who is talking on the phone...
14:39.59b-manhey, Stskeeps :)
14:40.12gomiamjohnx: ads? I saw no ads... ooops, got Adblock :P
14:40.50johnxgomiam, I only block ads when they piss me off...but when I do I block the whole domain. It's kind of a survival of the least annoying competition :)
14:41.35gomiamjohnx: you allot too much time to ad-blocking. I haven't got enough braincells for that ;)
14:42.12johnxgomiam, my workflow looks like this: ad blinks -> right click -> block -> select domain -> ok
14:42.39johnxtakes about 5 seconds and I only had to block 10-20 domains before there weren't any blinking ads left :)
14:42.45gomiamjohnx: I have a click disability, you insensitive clod! ;)
14:42.55qwerty12_N800If the only ads on the internet were Google's text adsense ones, then I wouldn't be using adblock
14:42.56mavhcget over yourself then
14:43.22mavhcqwerty12_N800: except when there's so many there's no blank space to click
14:43.42johnxin that case the site is a lost cause :) just like people who do layout in flash
14:43.44qwerty12_N800mavhc, hmm, good point
14:44.07wazdoh, iphone will get sort of flash at last)
14:44.11gomiamtrue, true
14:44.15wazdmaybe nextgen
14:44.33johnx(&*$% flash
14:44.42mavhcwhy can maemo do flash but apple said iphone couldn't?
14:44.56johnxmavhc, nokia paid up. apple didn't
14:45.18gomiammavhc: couldn't or... wouldn't?
14:45.19*** join/#maemo timelE61i (i=timeless@85-156-60-143.elisa-mobile.fi)
14:45.25johnxalso, apple probably had an internal beta of flash and found it ran too slow
14:46.01timelE61ioR hot :)
14:46.25timelE61iFlash is bad for battery life
14:46.34johnxif apple saw the flash performance on the n8x0 they'd probably say 'better nothing than something this slow.' That's the apple 'think different' mentality: better to give people no solution, than an 80% solution
14:47.35mavhccathedral view
14:47.42timelE61iApple knew they could direct the market and vendors would cater to apple
14:47.51timelE61iIt happened
14:48.05wazdjohnx: well, I woudn't say that they are completely wrong with this)
14:48.14johnxyeah. i bet adobe is kicking themselves now for not managing to make apple license flash for 10 million freaking phones
14:48.17timelE61iWhy waste money confusing the market w/ multiple incomplete paths
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14:49.18*** join/#maemo sisto1 (n=sisto@r190-135-184-222.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy)
14:49.23johnxin this case, I do agree with apple: flash on the desktop is an 80% solution at best. flash on mobile stuff isn't worth it
14:49.51mavhchow's gnash doing?
14:51.08johnxlooks ok. I wonder if it's fast enough to play youtube videos on ARM...
14:51.36mavhcwhat codec does the flash video on youtube use?
14:52.23johnxflv
14:52.35timelE61ithat's a container
14:52.38timelE61iNot a codec
14:52.42johnxah, then I have no idea :)
14:55.33timelE61ihistorically it was vp6
14:56.46timelE61i(people could read the wikipedia article, it's faster than waiting for it to d/l to my phone's browser)
14:56.48*** join/#maemo Atarii (n=Atarii@unaffiliated/atarii)
14:57.28AStormnowadays flash vids still use vp6
14:57.48AStormmost of the time
14:58.20mavhcthere's no post h264 codec in flash 10 anyway
14:58.40AStormmhm
14:58.51AStormok, people
14:58.58AStormI need someone to build me compcache
14:59.03AStormthe kernel module and tools
14:59.06AStormjust to test it
15:00.00AStormhttp://code.google.com/p/compcache/
15:00.11AStormany volunteer?
15:00.17timelE61iI think newer stuff used h264 instead of vp6
15:00.28AStormtimelE61i: hmm, no
15:00.33AStormyou *can* use h264
15:00.39AStormvp6 is still the default
15:00.57AStormh264 is very hard on CPUs, so not widely used, if anywhere
15:01.47tank-manits used on ipods and psp
15:01.56tank-manthose are widely used
15:01.56AStormin flash?
15:02.07tank-manno, but that codec
15:02.07AStorm^
15:02.11AStormyes yes
15:02.26AStormbut they have powerful dedicated hardware decoders
15:02.44timelE61idEdicated hardware at times is a myth
15:03.08AStormyes, sometimes
15:03.16AStormmight be fast software implementation on a DSP
15:03.30AStormstill, fast
15:03.37timelE61ioR horribly slow/unusable hardware impl
15:03.51timelE61isilently grumbles @ti
15:03.55AStormh264 is demanding though
15:04.14timelE61ioh sure
15:04.24AStormhttp://code.google.com/p/compcache/wiki/Performance - let me have it
15:04.27AStormplease?
15:04.27timelE61ibUt it's shiny
15:04.45johnxAStorm, sure. I'll build it for zaurus-akita 2.6.28
15:05.20AStormjohnx: what about building it for maemo's 2.6.21?
15:05.31johnxAStorm, eh. I'm happy with 128MB of RAM
15:05.35AStorm2.6.21-nokia-omap that is
15:05.52AStormjohnx: I'm not with 256 MB, I tend to open a few pages, start a few apps
15:05.57AStormthus, compcache would help
15:06.05johnxah, you should install scratchbox
15:06.42AStormyes, I should.
15:06.51AStormBut it's work and I still don't have the time
15:07.03johnxless IRC :)
15:07.03AStormholidays come in a few weeks
15:07.13AStormI think I'll need a few days to get it started
15:07.21b-manStskeeps: i seem to be having an error with bzr commit -m; http://pastebin.ca/1324496
15:07.24AStormIRC takes close to 0 time, it is possible to interleave :P
15:07.37AStormmultitasking and all
15:07.54Stskeepsb-man: cd merinstaller; then try? :P
15:07.57johnxAStorm, you have an ubuntu box or a machine that runs vmware?
15:08.10b-manoh :P
15:08.39AStormjohnx: the latter, but no huge bandwidth
15:08.44AStormand no ISO d/led yet
15:09.04johnxI'll take one shot at it? you sure it's ok building against 2.6.21?
15:09.11AStorm3 Mbit and 6GB transfer limit
15:09.23AStormjohnx: not sure, it's likely it won't
15:09.32AStormbut it doesn't use advanced stuff anyway
15:09.34AStormso might workd
15:09.37AStorm*work
15:09.53AStormneed someone to try and possibly send me error output
15:10.01AStormI'll know what to fix and will send the patch
15:10.35johnxok, I'll give it a quick shot
15:10.44johnxbut only cause you said please earlire :)
15:11.05AStorm:D
15:15.53*** join/#maemo gnuton (n=gnuton@cs181164097.pp.htv.fi)
15:16.35*** join/#maemo mlpug (n=mlpug@a88-115-168-225.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
15:16.53*** join/#maemo guerby (n=guerby@11.156.90-79.rev.gaoland.net)
15:19.26*** join/#maemo guerby (n=guerby@79.90.156.11)
15:35.33*** join/#maemo b-man (n=b-man@pool-71-124-117-162.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net)
15:36.06b-manStskeeps: i'm getting a similar error with bzr :(
15:36.33johnxhmmm...the psion netbook pro sure looks interesting :D
15:36.48AStormjohnx: so, what about your quick shot at building?
15:37.08johnxAStorm, bleh :P still working on getting a nokia kernel compiled
15:37.23AStormyou don't have to
15:37.30AStormjust make prepare
15:37.47johnxwell, if I'm going to do this, there are modules I want for myself anyways :)
15:37.48AStormbe sure to set the options for n810 or copy .config
15:37.54AStormah
15:37.56AStorm:>
15:38.02johnxah, n810 or n800 doesn't matter, right?
15:38.12AStormit does a bit
15:38.23AStormnot for compcache though
15:38.29johnxok, good
15:38.39johnxI thought n800 and n810 shared a kernel image?
15:38.43AStormcompcache is a filesystem, so no special internal stuff
15:38.45AStormthey don't
15:38.53AStormmany low-level things are different
15:39.09AStormnew linux-omap might support that, not sure
15:39.16AStormbut that one definitely doesn't
15:40.15johnxAStorm, have you looked at any of the execute in place stuff?
15:40.52*** join/#maemo Gary (n=Gary@freenode/staff/colchester-lug.gary)
15:41.00AStormflash is too slow for that, and you can only do that from the NAND flash
15:41.11AStormas a bonus, you'll lose wear levelling *if* it works
15:41.18AStormso, no, didn't bother
15:41.34johnxlose wear leveling *totally* or just make it less effective?
15:42.03AStormEIP is for ext2 in memory or fast flash that looks like memory
15:42.22AStormor ROM
15:42.22johnxah, what about the new one connected to UBIFS? (IIRC)
15:42.32AStormno idea.
15:42.44AStormI didn't bother, it won't be any faster than flash itself anyway
15:42.46*** join/#maemo ignacius (n=ignacius@78.Red-79-146-194.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
15:43.23AStormthe most important point is that the filesystem has too look like memory
15:43.33AStormuhm, s/filesystem/block device/
15:43.57johnxah, so directly randomly addressed?
15:44.11AStormyes
15:44.35AStormthere is a flash driver that does simulate memory
15:44.37johnxalright, this kernel build should go fast, then I'll try the module
15:44.51AStormbut it doesn't do wear levelling I think
15:44.56AStormmaybe UBIFS does
15:45.00AStormstill - pointless
15:45.05AStormas you have to load the data anyway
15:45.19AStormyou lose just one copy to ram
15:45.24AStormand file caching
15:45.33AStorm(EIP fs is not cached)
15:45.50johnxI'm thinking about my poor little zaurus that's under a lot more memory pressure than the n800...
15:46.09AStormyes, it has half the RAM
15:46.22johnxyeah. and swapping to SD is no fun
15:46.23AStormI probably couldn't even run the apps I do on n810
15:46.29johnxdefinitely not
15:46.30*** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at)
15:46.33AStormeven with tricks
15:46.46johnxit's pretty bogged down just running hildon-desktop
15:46.52AStorm:>
15:47.00AStormNokia 770 also has 128 MB
15:47.09johnxnope. 64MB
15:47.10johnxI'm trying to figure out the best swap settings
15:47.16AStormah
15:47.21AStormwait
15:47.31AStormwe have... 128 MB here or...
15:47.34AStormI shall check
15:47.39johnxN8x0 is 128MB
15:47.50AStorm128 MB too on n810
15:47.53AStormyeah
15:47.54johnx770 and (most of the) zauruses are 64MB
15:48.00AStorm:P
15:48.03mavhcreally we need smaller apps, they're too bloated
15:48.17mavhcrisc os on arm has 600k DTP programs
15:48.22johnxmavhc, volunteering to do some optimizing? some rewriting?
15:48.25AStormmavhc: make me a smaller web browser *now*!
15:48.32johnxdoes risc os have a web browser?
15:48.32AStormfully featured
15:48.37johnx^^
15:48.44AStormirc client can't get much smaller than irssi
15:48.46mavhcit has 6
15:48.47*** join/#maemo profoX` (n=wesley@d54C3831C.access.telenet.be)
15:48.49AStormthough xchat is fairly small
15:49.00johnxmavhc, and they show google maps well?
15:49.02AStormwe could slim the environment some
15:49.09mavhconly the firefox port I expect
15:49.18*** join/#maemo mat__ (n=mat@home.virgule.info)
15:49.22AStormmavhc: which probably eats as much ram as it does here ;P
15:49.34johnxalright, that's *more* bloated than browsers for arm linux
15:49.37AStormwe could use uclibc
15:49.45AStormthat should save quite a bit of ram
15:49.50johnxat least we have midori and tear
15:49.55AStorm:>
15:50.10mavhcdid jaffa every get round to the netsurf port?
15:50.11johnxand even tablet browser UI + gecko is lots lighter than firefox
15:50.34johnxsooo, maybe the RiscOS guys should look at getting some less bloated apps...
15:50.40AStorm:P
15:50.56AStormheck, fennec is the epitome of bloated
15:51.23*** join/#maemo zap (n=zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net)
15:51.57AStormjohnx: 64 MB just doesn't cut it for most modern software
15:52.00mavhcjohnx: there's not up to date native apps, netsurf, which doesn't have JS, and a ff port
15:52.05AStormeven with a tiny desktop env
15:52.31AStormkernel grabs, let's say, 8 MB
15:52.38johnxAStorm, yeah, the modern software is mostly ok. the web browser is the killer
15:52.49AStormindeed, or maemo-mapper
15:53.02johnxmavhc, it's silly to talk about RiscOS vs Linux unless you're talking feature vs feature
15:53.03AStormand the email app (excluding mutt)
15:53.06mavhcdon't see why videocenter, canola, etc, can't be 1MB
15:53.13AStormcanola is Python
15:53.27AStormif rewritten in C, using same libs, it'd be about 1/3 the size
15:53.37AStormright now it's like, 20 MB?
15:53.41Macershit
15:53.43AStormand it has a lot of graphics
15:53.46Macerjust went on a wii zelda binge
15:53.48Macerhaha
15:53.50Meizirkkijohnx: latest firefox is almost usable
15:54.01AStormMeizirkki: on 64 MB? really?
15:54.02AStorm:P
15:54.04Meizirkkinope
15:54.06Meizirkki128
15:54.10Macerbought the game almost 6 months ago and decided to start playing it today
15:54.12AStormfennec is
15:54.12b-manlol
15:54.13*** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@85-156-25-164.elisa-mobile.fi)
15:54.27AStorm(though rendering sometimes is slow, they have to improve the ui)
15:54.47johnxmavhc,  I don't see how. even mplayer is 4.5MB...
15:55.42b-manjohnx: sorry to interupt but could you help me with this? http://pastebin.ca/1324532
15:55.45AStormjohnx: that's true :P
15:56.07AStormfitting canola UI + mplayer into 8 MB is certainly possible
15:56.18AStormcanola UI + scanner
15:56.47*** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@87.84-49-132.nextgentel.com)
15:56.50AStormassuming not overly large graphics
15:57.10johnxb-man, ls -a /usr/libexec/dev/sorce/deb/merinstaller
15:57.20johnxb-man, is that the folder that has the .bzr directory in it?
15:57.24b-mank
15:57.49b-man.bzr? - do i need to make one?
15:57.55AStormno
15:58.20AStormyou use bzr clone
15:58.21AStormunless you want to start a new repo
15:58.21AStormthen, bzr init afaicr
15:58.25johnxyeah that's right
15:58.32johnxwhat is bzr get an alias for?
15:58.37johnxRTFMs
15:58.40AStormbazaar
15:58.41mavhcgraphics should be compressed in ram, any codecs should be loaded at playback time
15:58.52AStormmavhc: compressed in ram? you must be joking
15:58.56AStormblitting would eat tons of CPU
15:59.03johnxmavhc, and who is offering to do this work?
15:59.04b-maniss trying to update status for merinstaller
15:59.06AStormunless you have an unpacker in the graphics chip
15:59.09b-manre:is
15:59.19AStormand we probably don't
15:59.32AStorm(excluding the unknown PowerVR)
15:59.38mavhcAStorm: just simple compression, still have uncompressed vram
15:59.52AStormmavhc: and each blit is decompression
15:59.55AStormslow.
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16:00.08AStormit's a framebuffer, after all
16:00.18mavhchow often do you have to redraw it?
16:00.23AStormoften enough
16:00.37johnxmavhc, the screen? 30 times per second during an animation
16:00.44mavhcthe UI isn't redrawn that often, only when the screen changes
16:00.48AStormunless it's some specialized compression, you'd have to unpack whole images
16:01.08AStorminstead of compression, you could use vector UI
16:01.09AStorme.g. SVG
16:01.15johnxmavhc, again: if these are such great ideas, why aren't the people who actually do the work using them?
16:01.17AStormand cache renders
16:01.39AStormthat would work just as fast
16:01.52mavhcbecause they only care if their app runs, not if it runs when 3 other apps are running? or because they want to optimise last, after all the features are complete
16:02.12AStormmavhc: that, and it is no gain either
16:02.14mavhccacheing renders means it's using the same amount of ram
16:02.21AStormE libs support compressed images btw
16:02.33AStormso does firefox (used for large images)
16:02.47AStormX server might support them
16:02.51mavhcso it's not a crazy idea
16:02.53AStormno idea if it does
16:03.01AStormit's not, but it's not useful either
16:03.14AStormwhy do you have to keep the images in memory? - so that X server can display them
16:03.30AStormif X server doesn't support compression directly, you've a problem
16:03.36mavhcbut we're not constantly redrawing the UI, there's no overlapping windows for a start
16:03.43AStorm...
16:03.49AStormthere *are* overlapping windows.
16:03.54AStormbuttons are windows.
16:04.03AStormsong scrollbar is a window
16:04.09AStorm(think X)
16:04.23mavhcok, there's no overlapping drawing
16:04.28AStormat least X server caches fonts
16:04.41AStormyes, so you don't actually have to pull them from the X server after you upload
16:04.55AStormagain, X server would have to support that compression thingy
16:05.11johnxb-man, http://pastebin.ca/1324547 from inside merinstaller I would be able to do bzr commit -m "my message"
16:05.24keesjhttp://fosdem.org/2009/schedule/events/emb_maemo_beagleboard
16:05.26AStormfirefox works around by uploading parts of image to X server if it's large
16:05.37AStorm(the visible ones)
16:05.39b-manjohnx: ok
16:05.59mavhcit's just a side effect of running apps written for devices where ram use isn't a problem
16:06.03AStormno
16:06.05AStormit's not.
16:06.17AStormit's a side effect of having an X server w/o support for compressed formats
16:06.23johnxkeesj, ah, very interesting. so the goal is to modify maemo as little as possible, correct?
16:06.24AStorm:P
16:06.53AStormmavhc: be thankful that apps don't have to manage the images themselves
16:07.02AStormso you end up with 2 copies
16:07.12keesjjohnx: I don't really know, I just and mainly wonder about the development process out there
16:07.20AStormkeesj: fremantle should work on that out of the box
16:07.32mavhcso does the xserver just redraw images without talking to the app? the app just tells it what area of ram the image is in?
16:07.34johnxAStorm, define "out of the box"
16:07.53AStormjohnx: as in "almost the same hardware"
16:07.58AStorm:P
16:08.17AStormmavhc: the app and X server throw around XIDs
16:08.25johnx"out of the box" != "some hacking required" :P
16:08.27keesjAStorm: and as "A safe change"
16:08.52AStormjohnx: it will "work" w/o hacking
16:08.57AStormat least, most features
16:09.02AStormthe hardware is so similar.
16:09.33mavhcwhat if it's a vector art program redrawing?
16:09.49AStormmavhc: so it's usually like: move this XID there
16:10.02AStormmavhc: then it has to blit to a bitmap first
16:10.22AStormor maybe use X drawing routines directly - but these are lacking in features
16:10.26mavhcso it's stored once in vram, and once in ram
16:10.43AStormyes, so? you can use shm
16:10.54AStormas in, XShm extension
16:11.03AStormnah, even that won't work
16:11.09AStormyou'd have to be able to mmap the vram
16:11.12johnxkeesj, is there any more info available on that project?
16:11.19AStormor mmap X server memory
16:11.32johnxaaaah...just realized it was a presentation, not a project
16:11.33johnxdurrr
16:11.40AStormanyway, no zero-copy is possible then
16:11.45b-manreally hopes he did not screw anything up at mer-committers in bzr :P
16:11.59mavhcAStorm: but after rendering you could delete and rerender upon the next request for that rectangle?
16:12.00johnxb-man, in the worst case we can revert, so don't worry
16:12.13AStormmavhc: yes
16:12.14keesjit's next week at fosdem.
16:12.14b-manhehe
16:12.32AStormmavhc: obviously, at a CPU cost
16:12.35johnxb-man, plus, it doesn't end up on launchpad until your run bzr push ...
16:12.42mavhcit's all a cpu vs ram tradeoff
16:12.52AStorma lot of CPU for a tiny bit of RAM.
16:12.56b-manah, ok :)
16:13.02AStormrendering, say, SVG uses a lot of CPU
16:13.17AStormit's much cheaper to hold the image and modify it
16:13.22mavhcyes, but what about RLE compression?
16:13.32mavhcfor the previous case of bitmap compression
16:13.36AStormRLE of those bitmaps?
16:13.42AStormagain, if X server supports compressed formats
16:13.44mavhcthe pre vector discussion
16:13.46AStormand the gfx card does...
16:13.57AStormotherwise it will have to be unpacked somewhere
16:14.08mavhcor you decompressed on the fly when asked for the rectangle, then deleted the decompressed version again
16:14.13AStormalso, modifying the image obviously will require a decompression
16:14.22AStormyes, you could do that
16:14.23Stskeepsb-man: did you push too?
16:14.30mavhcbecause in a general use case on maemo the UI isn't redrawn more often than once a second in a worst case
16:14.55AStormno idea if decompressing all those PNGs will be fast enough
16:14.55b-manStskeeps: i'm still having issues :P
16:15.05johnxmavhc, uhm, except when anyone is doing anything
16:15.06Stskeepsb-man: like?
16:15.08AStormand *especially* rendering SVGs won't be worth it
16:15.18mavhcjohnx: eg?
16:15.34AStormjohnx: they're not changing the images
16:15.43mavhcsvg is way too slow, but a simple vector format would be ok, it's what everyone did in 8bit days
16:15.55AStorm:)
16:15.59b-manStskeeps: http://pastebin.ca/1324532 - and i can't find a way to fix this
16:16.02johnxAStorm, but he wants to delete the uncompressed version, and we don't have saveunders I think
16:16.12mavhcI'd rather have a media player that used 1MB of ram and didn't look pretty
16:16.14AStormyou don't?
16:16.21AStormthus, our X server is unaccelerated
16:16.23johnxmavhc, then use mpd+ncmpc
16:16.37AStormmavhc: problem solved?
16:16.45AStormother than that, XMMS is smaller than canola
16:16.47qwerty12Or mpc even =)
16:17.07AStormwhat's more, you can drop the file walker process
16:17.13Stskeepsb-man: first off, you put the merinstaller in /merinstaller, not /usr/libexec/dev/sorce/deb/merinstaller/ :)
16:17.14johnxor write your own mpd frontend in assembly with direct vector graphics printed to the framebuffer
16:17.24mavhcgoogles....well, I want a gui, but don't bother with album art and themes
16:17.34b-manStskeeps: ok
16:17.36AStormmavhc: again, we have a build of old xmms
16:17.37AStormuse it
16:17.45johnxmavhc, if you link in gtk+ and hildon you're already outside your memory requirements
16:17.54AStormjohnx: gtk+ is shared
16:17.59AStormso is hildon
16:18.10AStormoh, not xmms
16:18.13AStormbmp rather
16:18.16AStormor audacious
16:18.23AStormxmms uses gtk+1.2, which will eat ram
16:18.27AStorm:P
16:18.31johnxyup :)
16:18.50Stskeepsjohnx: saw http://fosdem.org/2009/schedule/events/emb_maemo_beagleboard ?
16:19.04johnxyup. just a second ago
16:19.07Stskeepsk
16:19.11mavhcnot that I can get a consistant report of free ram, each applet seems to give a different number
16:19.24johnxtry htop
16:19.25mavhcor ram used by an app
16:19.43johnxmavhc, well, it's somewhat complicated when you're talking about using shared libraries...
16:20.07mavhcso I've found, can't they have their own entry?
16:21.05AStormthey do
16:21.12AStormit's a point called SHR
16:21.17AStormRES is the true memory usage
16:21.26AStormVM is the allocation size
16:21.36Stskeepsjohnx: just wondering if they're suddenly making a side project to maemo targetting omap3 devices..
16:21.37AStormRES or RSS (resident set size)
16:22.36AStormfrom my desktop:
16:22.39johnxStskeeps, well, they internally use beagles for dev work, IIRC...so I would assume it's just a presentation on that
16:22.40AStorm10624 astralst  21   1  120M 31980 12404 S  0.0  2.1  0:01.06 claws-mail
16:23.00Stskeepsjohnx: yeah possibly
16:23.10AStorm120M is VIRT, 32M is SHR, 12,5M is RSS
16:23.18AStormoh, wrogn
16:23.34johnxStskeeps, There were noises about telling other people how to use maemo5 on a beagle, earlier
16:23.35AStorm120M is VIRT, 32M is RES and 12.5M is SHR
16:23.45AStorm:P
16:24.04AStormthis is x86 though
16:24.21Stskeepsjohnx: well, on the other hand, nokia seems to be starting to get some of the things i've pointed out way back in Maemo Reconstructed
16:24.48johnxStskeeps, hmm?
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16:25.07AStormsorting by RES on tablet: hildon-desktop, osso-xterm, hildon-input-method, browserd, osso-connectivity-ui-connd
16:25.14AStorm(largest first)
16:25.31mavhchow would I do that sort?
16:25.33AStormand hildon-desktop is 16M RES
16:25.40Stskeepsjohnx: 'Sure, customize with busybox and such, but,
16:25.40Stskeepsin the process of rebuilding the base system platform, release scripts
16:25.40Stskeepsfor bootstrapping a Maemo image, keep the system development open
16:25.40Stskeeps(public SVN like with Hildon) - which would make developers happy in
16:25.40Stskeepsterms of knowing how the base system is going to change - and adapt to
16:25.41Stskeepsthem before new OS releases come out.
16:25.44Stskeeps(and such)
16:25.57Stskeeps(http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2008-October/035409.html)
16:26.04AStormmavhc: press <
16:26.08AStormor >
16:26.22mavhcin htop?
16:26.26AStormyes
16:26.33AStormor click Setup on the bar
16:26.34Stskeepsif they're starting to make it possible to easily adapt Maemo to hw platforms and bootstrap it
16:26.36mavhcfirst question, where's htop?
16:26.37Stskeeps:P
16:26.38AStormand pick there
16:26.46AStormmavhc: in extras I think
16:26.58mavhcdon't see it
16:26.59AStormyou can also use old top (from busybox)
16:27.05AStormmaybe extras-devel
16:27.09AStormor that other devel repo
16:27.45qwerty12http://maemo.org/development/tools/
16:27.52AStormnote - hildon-desktop process counts most of your desktop applets
16:27.56qwerty12Use apt-get to install it after adding that repo
16:28.08mavhcif the applets aren't displayed do they use ram?
16:28.20AStormyes, they are running
16:28.39AStormbad design, eh?
16:28.50mavhcprobably half of my problem then
16:28.55AStormunlikely
16:29.07AStormsee, the heaviest one I have is the omweather
16:29.16AStormbecause of nice gfx
16:29.46mavhcis it possible to see what each applet is using?
16:29.49AStormand most of the applets are client rendered
16:29.58AStormhmm, no, I don't think so
16:30.03AStormmight show as threads, let me check
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16:31.13AStormnah, you won't know which one's which
16:31.43mavhcand if the only way to remove them is to uninstall that's going to be annoying
16:31.49johnxStskeeps, right now I think they're very focused on getting fremantle out of the door. And they did talk about fremantle on beagleboards a while ago I know...so I think it's more about filling in the blanks on a one-off nature rather than becoming really portable...
16:31.51AStormno, just uncheck them
16:32.04AStormremove them from the desktop and/or tray
16:32.15Stskeepsjohnx: yeah, true - but still, if they're even distributing how to put maemo on another device, is a plus
16:32.18AStormit's configurable in the control panel and desktop menu
16:32.34mavhcthat's what I meant by not displayed
16:32.56mavhcdid you mean on the desktop, but covered by another window?
16:32.57johnxStskeeps, agreed. maybe they'll be more willing to talk right after fremantle is out the door, before the heavy work for hermatatatan starts
16:33.10Stskeepsyeah
16:33.24AStormmavhc: they took like, all, 300 KB though
16:33.27AStormso don't even bother
16:33.35AStormunless one of your applets is running python :P
16:33.43johnxalso, the psion teklogix netbook pro looks like an interesting device :)
16:33.43AStorm(then python will show in process list)
16:35.22AStormmavhc: I guess hildon-desktop is so large, because it caches all the menu bitmaps
16:35.30AStormthat would be a nasty performance problem
16:35.38AStormno other reason why it should take 16 MB
16:36.40mavhcmenu bitmaps = the corners etc, or all the text too?
16:36.44AStormmaybe... maybe if it holds the uncompressed wallpaper
16:36.51AStormmavhc: no, as in, app icons
16:37.30AStormmine hildon-desktop just crashed and was returned to the defaults
16:37.38AStormit eats 14,8 MB
16:38.05mavhcwhat bit depth is the wallpaper?
16:38.06johnxAStorm, huh. kernel build failed. sorry, not going to worry about it for tonight
16:38.46AStormmavhc: unimportant, it doesn't take much ram as I checked
16:39.33mavhcat least with no swap it can't swap out apps I'm using, unlike windows
16:39.49AStormit's just... heavy on its own
16:39.55AStormmavhc: then enable swap, eh/
16:39.59AStormyou can have a swap file
16:40.10AStormthere's even an utility in control panel
16:40.13mavhcand wear out my precious SD card?
16:40.16johnxyes
16:40.35AStormmavhc: yes, SD cards are cheap
16:40.40johnxmaybe you'll kill your $10 SD card in 3 years instead of losing it in 4 years
16:40.46AStormmhm
16:41.05AStormthough, failures of swap files are sometimes nefarious crashes
16:41.11AStormdataloss might be expensive ;P
16:41.34AStormMTBF is much larger though than 5 years
16:41.45AStormbecause swap is actually written to rarely
16:41.55johnxdepends on 'swappiness'
16:42.04AStormjohnx: as I mentioned, you don't need the kernel build
16:42.07AStormto build the module :)
16:42.11AStormtry it
16:42.25johnxsorry, I moved on to something else
16:42.31AStormmeh :/
16:42.38johnxI'll get back to it eventually
16:42.50johnxif you want it done faster then just install scratchbox...
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16:45.33AStormjohnx: and you'll send me a DVD with Ubuntu on it
16:45.56johnxwhy would I send you an ubuntu cd so you can work on your own project?
16:45.59AStormsetting up sbox is time consuming and requires full attention
16:46.04johnxwill you send me an n810 so I can test it with mer?
16:46.30johnxalso: the ubuntu guys will send you a free cd. just ask them
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16:52.32qwerty12AStorm, I've got compcache 0.5 & 0.5.1 compiled successfully against nokia 2.6.21. 0.5.1 was the result of dodgy patching by me (diffed from 0.5). http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/compcache/
16:53.01pupniki wish comanche would be open-sourced
16:53.16johnxheh :) somehow I figured it would this is what would happen
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17:03.00AStormqwerty12: :D again
17:03.03AStormyou rock man
17:03.08AStormtime for testing
17:03.13qwerty12:)
17:03.25*** join/#maemo oli (n=oli@platinum.edu.pl)
17:04.22AStormbtw, does the new wifi driver support packet injection?
17:05.12AStormaircrack-ng would be too good to pass :>
17:05.37qwerty12It uses mac80211 which I believe allows packet injection
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17:07.47AStormqwerty12: where else except initfs can I put kernel modules? (dir)
17:08.09qwerty12/lib/modules/`uname -r` on rootfs but you will have to insmod manually still
17:09.43AStormdoesn't exist, meh
17:09.53johnxyup :)
17:10.00AStormthat's why I asked
17:10.03johnxit doesn't really matter where you put it on the rootfs
17:10.04AStormok then
17:10.19AStormjohnx: it would if I installed real module-init-tools
17:10.47johnxhmm...is there a maemo package of that?
17:11.06qwerty12busybox would probably conflict with it anyway
17:11.56AStormyes, there is, and yes, busybox conflicts with it
17:12.02AStormbut who cares about conflicts :P
17:12.23johnxoh me! *raises his hand*
17:13.06AStormnokia would do us a lot of good if it just installed normal utils
17:13.16johnxhence mer
17:13.24AStormmhm
17:14.25RST38hAStorm: that would be a step away from the normal procedure
17:14.52AStormRST38h: it's not really embedded enough
17:14.57AStormno need for busybox
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17:17.03AStormand would make for less porting
17:19.11bensonInteresting detail: the busybox in initfs is bigger than the one in the rootfs.
17:19.22bensonAnd it has color ls, for example.
17:19.30qwerty12It also has better help
17:19.40bensoncompares feature lists...
17:19.44AStormdifferent team?
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17:41.52StskeepsMeizirkki: fell and broke your leg? ;)
17:42.23Meizirkkiluckily not :)
17:42.31Stskeepsany luck on installer?
17:42.45Meizirkkiyep, and 0.7 works well
17:42.49Stskeepsgood
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17:43.56Meizirkkii removed network-manager btw
17:44.09Meizirkkii prefer wifi-radar
17:44.25Stskeepsfair enough :)
17:44.31Stskeepsi'm going to release very soon so :P
17:44.43johnxw00!
17:44.54johnxis already digging in to zaurus pre-reqs
17:45.57Stskeepsis not a fan of scratchbox atm
17:46.19johnxyou two fighting again?
17:46.46Stskeepslibkrb requiring libc6 >= 2.9
17:46.50Stskeepsguess which we're on, 2.8
17:47.01johnxaaah, in sb
17:47.08johnxhmm
17:47.30Stskeepswell, for the rootstrap i generate for SB
17:47.37Stskeepshave to revert to v8 i guess
17:57.51johnxalright, 'night all
17:58.13Stskeepsnini
17:58.15Stskeepssends off post
17:58.34qwerty12hits the auto refresh button
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18:02.07bensonre: busyboxes, there are 86 commands in common, 27 unique to the initfs version, and 20 unique to the rootfs version.
18:02.53bensonWhy these featuresets aren't merged and a single binary used is beyond me...
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18:08.13qwerty12Stskeeps, screenshot02.png isn't displaying :)
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18:08.50Stskeepshmmm.
18:09.10Stskeepslemme see
18:10.20Stskeepsfixed
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18:10.56StskeepsMer 0.7 release: http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26567
18:11.06Stskeepsslightly more user friendly to install, now :)
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18:13.22Stskeepsevening andre___
18:15.39andre___hej hej
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19:04.51b-man(random information) - i just released a new version of nit-bootmenu-compat for ubuntu jaunty and i created a new error screen; http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/ubuntu-n8x0/incompatible-bootmenu.jpg - take a look :)
19:06.10olihey, can I install clear maemo on a sd card?
19:07.07b-manyou mean clone? - there shuld be instructions under general on itt ;)
19:07.37olii've seen that - but i want a clear system - not a clone
19:07.59b-manhmm
19:08.08woglindeclear?
19:08.19oliooops, i played with debian and now maemo boots only to the end of a blue bar and freezes...
19:08.30qwerty12_N800oli, have any experience with mtd2block modules?
19:08.56oliqwerty12_N800: no.
19:10.04oliwhat do i have to do to fix it? ;p
19:11.42b-manthinks about creating a stand-alone repository for ubuntu to keep things sain
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19:12.08oliDo I have to reflash now?
19:12.36b-manmost likely :(
19:13.21oliwell.. ok. But i have no idea how did it happen.
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19:13.53b-manhow were you messing with debian? :)
19:14.19olii set root device to mmc, tested it, it crashed on rebooting so i pulled battery out
19:14.33b-manouch
19:14.49oliafter thet i've set root dev to flash and now blue bar stops at the end
19:15.14oliwas there any better thing to do on crash at a black screen? ;p
19:15.36b-manthe jffs2 filesysm might have gotten damaged
19:16.06olibut i could't do anything
19:16.08b-manre: filesystem
19:16.12wazdwhoa, I don't think that Pandora is pocketable, it's toooo thick imho
19:16.44olib-man: i have to do a full flash or only partial?
19:16.56qwerty12_N800It's also shit to most people because you can't buy with a CC :P
19:17.14b-manoil; probibly a full flash ;p
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19:17.37bensonwazd:pffftt... it's only 27mm thick.
19:18.00olib-man: ok, thanks
19:18.03bensonPocketable, if it's the only thing in that pocket.
19:18.32wazdbenson: oh my )))
19:18.41wazdbenson: "only"?))
19:19.07wazdbenson: thick part of n800 is 23
19:19.48bensonYep, 29 is no problem.
19:19.59RST38hqwerty: and it also has a problem of not being in existance yet
19:20.11benson(It doesn't need a case, since it's a clamshell, so you save a couple mm there.)
19:20.21RST38hyes, I admit that for some REALLY dedicated people it is not a problem at all though
19:21.04wazdbenson: well, I don't have any case for my n800 :) But I've just visually added 5mm to n800... oh my oh my)
19:21.08qwerty12_N800RST38h, yes, I could see that as  a bigger problem :/. nice con they've got setup though
19:21.40Proteouspfff, I can pocket my vaio P
19:22.00wazdProteous: you actually have one?)
19:22.06Proteoushttp://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/01/vaio-p-pockets-1.jpg
19:22.07glassqwerty12_N800: huh can't buy pandora with a cc?
19:22.07RST38hqwerty: Never underestimate the power of ignorance :)
19:22.17RST38h(in other words, it does not have to be a con job :))
19:22.55qwerty12_N800glass, yep, don't have a link but they aren't accepting them atm :/
19:22.57glassqwerty12_N800: are they evading taxes or what?
19:23.03qwerty12_N800RST38h, indeed :)
19:23.50RST38hglass: they are evading chargebacks
19:24.03glassRST38h: thats the other thing i thought of
19:24.34glassRST38h: but that smells like keeping the money despite the project crashing
19:24.34bensonProteous: Full article, with more pictures -- the last one is best:
19:24.37bensonhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/12/vaio-p-doesnt-have-nothin-on-these-other-awesome-pocket-friend/
19:24.43Proteousyeah
19:24.58Proteousor this one from the comments: http://image.blog.livedoor.jp/dqnplus/imgs/0/7/07548f84.jpg
19:25.02wazdPandora is a wonderful piece of hardware with "why-so-bad?!" design
19:25.24glassdunno, i kinda like the design, i'd like all those buttons
19:25.30glassi just don't like the vapo smell..
19:25.35ProteousLETS PUT WHITE BUTTONS ALL OVER THE FUXIN PLACE!!!!
19:25.36glassor the amateur smell
19:25.45RST38hwazd: it is an omap3 reference design with an ugly case quickly modeled out of cardboard
19:26.01wazdI think buttons will be black someday)
19:26.02bensonThe design doesn't bother me. I don't think the buttons are white in the final version.
19:26.20glassit would be in toy use for me anyways
19:26.21RST38hthe final version will be pink and have horns instead of buttons
19:26.27glasshello kitty
19:26.36bensonI
19:26.44wazdhttp://www.gp32x.de/pandorasneak.jpg
19:26.50RST38hglass: the whole thing looks very much like Optimus Maximus
19:26.54wazdthats the final mockup I guess
19:26.58glasswhat bothers me about is the fanboyz, thinking of it as the jesusdevice
19:27.04bensonI generally don't care much about design, but I'd draw the line at hello kitty.
19:27.11lcukpeople who leave computers in their back pockets will end up running cracked software no matter whether they are pirates or not
19:27.13RST38hglass: a bunch of guys suddenly get an idea that they can design and produce hardware
19:27.15ProteousI just don't really get the vertical then horizontal across the top keyboard buttons
19:27.16lcukits just a recipe for disaster
19:27.25Proteousthey keypad is cool
19:27.31Proteousthen they just went too far
19:27.34glassRST38h: "hey we can haz order ref boards"
19:27.42RST38hglass: they try - and fail, documenting their clusterfuck in their blog for everyone to see
19:28.01glassRST38h: i'd have more faith in them if they'd just have bought the manufacturing from some chinese nutjobs
19:28.15RST38hglass: I am absolutely sure they did
19:28.15*** join/#maemo Phantom (n=Miranda@83.149.10.237)
19:28.27RST38hglass: but they have chosen their chinese nutjobs badly.
19:28.50glassRST38h: well the crap that one fanboy told me was that the "parts were chosen for quality" and that some of the plastics were from usa etc
19:29.00glassRST38h: i haven't followed their blog really
19:29.04wazdWell, actually it's acceptable design but... speaker grid?! Guys, hello, it's 21st century!)
19:29.51RST38hglass: Chinese have no problem ordering some parts from the US
19:29.53lcukforgive me for being a n00b, but what would you cover a speaker with?
19:30.13pupnikmelted lard?
19:30.19wazdwell, not that "early 90s" stuff for sure)
19:30.20glassRST38h: it was told in a fashion that they were going to assemble it themselfs
19:30.21Phantomtimeless: Hi, do you remember yesterday's talk about chinook package manager?
19:30.23lcukmight help with cooking
19:30.43timelessvaguely
19:30.45RST38hglass: further confirms my original suspicion that they have never done it
19:31.13roopeIt's been interesting to follow the Pandora project thingy. I guess it proves that if it would be so easy, everybody would be doing it.
19:31.14PhantomToday I reflashed the device with latest release of diablo.
19:31.23lcuk+1 roope
19:31.27glassRST38h: yeah thats why it sounded amateurish and stupid, the fanboy who told me this didn't think of it as weird which is why i labeled him fanoy in my puny mind
19:31.41RST38hroope: It is not very hard but you have to have experience doing it
19:31.58*** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman)
19:32.13RST38hroppe: It basicalyl comes down to choosing the right Chinese or Taiwanese design house and working with them, clearly stating what you want
19:32.16olib-man: epic win!
19:32.24roopeWell, yes. It's like brain surgery. It's not very hard if you have experience doing it. :)
19:32.37b-manoil: hehe
19:32.39lcukhands roope a hammer and chisel
19:32.54lcukyou should be able to make a good start with those :D
19:32.54RST38hroope: But you have to know whom to choose and have exprience working with these guys
19:32.59roopebut yes, there are many asian subcontractors where you can get pretty much the whole package.
19:33.05olib-man: i've left it (with battery) for 10 minutes, then ./flasher-3.0-static --set-root-device flash -R , and it seems to work well ;)
19:33.19b-mansweet ;)
19:33.44glassroope: point being that they didn't even choose teh complete package way which would have been easiest
19:33.50PhantomAt first time, package manager lauched and showed me list of installed apps. Then it checked for updated and just after this check it repeated same nonsense in log as chinook did before. No apps installed, no available repos really working. I can't figure out what it wants from me in order to just work...
19:33.54olithe only problem with n800 which i hadn't solved yet is setting a SIP account
19:33.55glass-teh+the
19:34.01wazdhttp://www.gp32x.de/sneak3.jpg
19:34.04*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)
19:34.12wazdomg, 3.5mm jack on the side!
19:34.23wazdwhy?!
19:34.24roopeThat's... at least you cannot complain about the lack of hard keys there. ;)
19:34.44lcuki thought it could be flipped slate style?
19:34.45Livingroomwazd: wtf is that? a dvd player with a keyboard?
19:34.54lcukthe preview there looks like its laptop only
19:34.55roopeInteresting placement for the Del button.
19:34.58bensonwazd: as opposed to?
19:35.09b-manis mesmerised by the pandora picture
19:35.16benson2.5mm is less widely available...
19:35.33lcukand odd lack of esc key without a double press
19:35.41wazdbenson: no, why on the front?
19:35.49RST38hwazd: this does not look like "high quality plastics from US" =)
19:36.12b-manlcuk, wazd: did you see my new error screen btw? :)
19:36.15RST38hlooks like a plastic fishing bait box, in fact
19:36.19lcukRST38h, high quality fake rendered plastics, the electrons originated in the US
19:36.35timelesshey, has anyone here had trouble using mer's menus in vmware?
19:36.39wazdbenson: Place on the side is much better for "audio player in the pocket" mode
19:36.41timeless(the task launcher one)
19:36.41bensonwazd: it has to be front or back; sides would interfere with gaming grip.
19:37.07bensonwazd: true that.
19:37.15LivingroomWOOOT
19:37.24Livingroomi just booted windows 3.11 on my n800.
19:37.26bensonMaybe at the back edge of the side...
19:37.29lcukno b-man give us a blast
19:37.33wazdbenson: now you'll break your 100$ headphones jack with this :(
19:37.58b-manlcuk, wazd; http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/ubuntu-n8x0/incompatible-bootmenu.jpg
19:38.19wazdb-man: fonts are screwed up\
19:38.22lcuk"this tablet will self destruct in 15 seconds"
19:38.33bensonHeheh. I don't have any phones worth more than $20, and even so I'd spend $5 on a 3" pigtail to take the abuse.
19:38.37b-manhehe
19:38.38lcukwrong aspect, but the contrast of the entire screen is right
19:38.42wazdb-man: use special narrow fonts or just use normal)
19:38.45Stskeepsi like wazds shark better
19:38.57lcuki bet that looks good on device
19:39.05wazdStskeeps: that's for ubuntu I guess
19:39.10mavhcget headphones with a corner jack
19:39.30wazdmavhc: that sounds like Apple)
19:39.32glassi have to change cord on my headphones every few months
19:39.43lcukb-man, could you do me a blank 800*480 of the background please? :D i would like it for my desktop (maybe with a blue hint)
19:39.51bensonStill harder on them... I'm with wazd now that I think about pocketage.
19:39.53glassa little solder job.. using them on ipod and rolling the cord on it breaks it
19:39.55b-manlcuk; shure
19:40.00lcuk:D excellent
19:40.01*** join/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host81-158-68-62.range81-158.btcentralplus.com)
19:40.03b-manhold on...
19:40.12lcukthough the color i could hint as required
19:40.21*** part/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host81-158-68-62.range81-158.btcentralplus.com)
19:40.30lcukim already changing title hues for different apps
19:40.53b-manok, i'll have it up in 5-10 minutes then ;)
19:40.55mavhcwazd: no, that would be: buy our headphones that need a special chip in to even play audio via our device, btw the chip costs nothing but licencing fees
19:41.08lcukb-man, no problem, leave it greyscale, ill tint it at runtime
19:41.19lcukcould even make it an alpha channel
19:41.21b-manok :)
19:44.29b-manlcuk: http://www.bman.maemobox.org/intelmac_gray.jpg
19:44.55lcukthanks :)
19:45.23b-manno problem ;)
19:45.34*** join/#maemo Andy80 (n=andy80@host9-12-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
19:45.45*** join/#maemo milos_ (n=mikici@92.36.130.31)
19:47.39wazdand the worst thing that curent pandora's keyboard layout is almost localizable
19:47.58wazdno space for descent cyrilic or other layouts :(
19:48.27timelesswonders if osso-backup is available
19:48.28roopeyeah. nobody in scandinavia wants to buy a device without รครถ.
19:48.47*** join/#maemo Wikier (n=wikier@36.Red-80-37-218.staticIP.rima-tde.net)
19:48.55timelessnobody outside scandinavia would want to buy a device made by a company which includes them
19:49.02oliroope: you've got separate keys for such characters?
19:49.08timelessgrumbles notably in roope's direction
19:49.14timelessoli: yes
19:49.26timelessthey ruin the right edge of the keyboard for them
19:49.33timelesstotal waste of good ergonomics
19:49.39timelessroope: speaking of which
19:49.46timelessi just tried an HTC earlier today
19:49.53timelessthey stuck the space key where it belongs
19:50.03timelessremind me to get an HTC and whack it over the head of someone @nokia
19:50.40*** join/#maemo Gary_ (n=Gary@freenode/staff/colchester-lug.gary)
19:51.12*** join/#maemo jmesquita (n=mesquita@200.150.185.92)
19:51.17suihkulokkithe HTC models I tried at verkkokauppa.com ~2y ago did not have very impressive qwerty
19:51.37timelesssuihkulokki: visit me tomorrow and i'll explain
19:51.50jmesquitaGuys, I have some problems compiling my application for maemo. Is this the right place to ask dev questions?
19:52.05timelessjmesquita: there's here, or a mailing list
19:52.08timelessgive it a shot
19:52.16timelessuse a pastebin if you need a bunch of lines
19:52.33jmesquitatimeless: I have a Qt application and I have a linking problem
19:52.34wazdIf only pandora guys invested some time in sexiness - it would be total hell on earth
19:52.53jmesquitatimeless: It all compiles fine, but linking has not been good
19:53.03jmesquitatimeless: Let me pastebin the output
19:53.09woglindejmesquita whats the problem?
19:53.35wazdIf you can't do something sexy - copy something sexy :)
19:53.50jmesquitawoglinde: I am not really sure. I am linking against a lib that dependes on portaudio
19:54.02jmesquitawoglinde: But it compiles fine and the lib examples also work fine
19:54.11woglindethe pastebin
19:54.13woglindethen
19:54.14GAN800wazd, they intentionally made it look like shit.
19:54.26timelessnote that some things aren't quite as transitive as you might want
19:54.27jmesquitawoglinde: I mean, the PC version compiles on all 3 OSs and work fine on all 3 OSs
19:54.50timelesswhy are all the games in mer 77+mb?
19:54.55timelessis it going to install KDE for me?
19:55.40wazdGAN800: well, honestly it doesn't have worst look in the world, but it's kinda "oldskool" or something
19:56.25jmesquitahttp://pastebin.com/m3a889e8f
19:57.07timelessjmesquita: did ou try linking against that sound lib?
19:57.41jmesquitatimeless: -lportaudio-i686-pc-linux-gnu
19:57.50jmesquitatimeless: Thats supposed to be the sound lib
19:57.59woglindejmesquita you need to linka gainst the alsablib
19:58.33timelessjmesquita: you should probably look at pkgconfig
19:58.36*** join/#maemo ezadkiel_mB (n=chatzill@bas1-cooksville17-1279271779.dsl.bell.ca)
19:58.42timelessin theory, it's supposed to solve this problem for you
19:59.03jmesquitawoglinde: Erm... I dont really understand why this is not compiling in sbox if it does compile on any other system
19:59.14Livingroomhey guys, anyone ever use dosbox to install Win95 on the N800?
19:59.17jmesquitatimeless: Let me take a look at that
19:59.27jmesquitawoglinde: -l what?
19:59.36*** join/#maemo philipl (i=1000@c-98-210-152-237.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
20:00.19RST38hsuggested Livingroom to install Windows about 13 hours ago
20:00.33woglinde-lasound
20:00.35Livingroomhey RST, i did
20:00.47Livingroomthat whole thing i went through was just so i could install win 3.11 on dosbox. it works! yay.
20:00.51woglindejmesquita please look if libasound2 is installed
20:01.15timelesswoglinde: should be pretty hard to hvave compiled successfully otherwise
20:01.16jmesquitais looking at the system right now
20:01.22timelesspresumably he has libasound2-dev too
20:01.31woglindetimeless depends
20:02.12jmesquitaI do have both
20:02.21jmesquita-dev and lib...
20:02.41mavhcLivingroom: just use vnc/rdp and pretend you did
20:03.00Livingroombut pretending is for fairies.
20:03.06woglinde-lasound2 should do
20:03.16Livingroomi want to do it, and say i did it: and behold, i shall be the greatest in the land; the geekiest individual in central TN.
20:03.16woglindeargs asound
20:03.46jmesquitawonYep!!!
20:03.50jmesquitawoglinde: It did
20:03.55woglinde*g*
20:04.11jmesquitawoglinde: I dont really get why in regular linux distros I dont have to link explicitly against that
20:05.34*** join/#maemo trickie (n=trickie@86.93.227.181)
20:06.32jmesquitawoglinde: Is there a way to test this on the device without making a real package?
20:06.48woglindecopy the binary over
20:06.58timelessjmesquita: you're not going to want to, but nothing prevents you
20:07.07woglindebut I suggest you compile it first with scratchbox arm
20:07.08timelessbesides you just built x86, not arm
20:07.26timelesspersonally, i'd try it out in a vmware-x86 :)
20:07.29jmesquitatimeless: Right, I need to change the target to ARMEL
20:07.57jmesquitasorry guys, I am very new to maemo and sbox
20:08.26jmesquitaAnd I just wanted a proof of concept here. Have my softphone run on one of these babies
20:09.34jmesquitaLet me get back to the books then and understand how to change sbox to armel and others ...
20:09.51lcukjmesquita, have you got qt libs on your device yet
20:09.54*** join/#maemo Interocitor (n=Jacob@ip98-165-84-98.ph.ph.cox.net)
20:10.04woglindelcuk he will install them
20:11.05*** join/#maemo geaaru (n=geaaru@host169-171-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
20:11.10jmesquitalcuk: No, not yet
20:11.25jmesquitaBut I saw that all I have to do is install the repo on the website
20:11.53woglindedevel-extras
20:11.59lcukfair enough :)
20:12.12jmesquitaYep.. :)
20:12.35*** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@cs181192153.pp.htv.fi)
20:12.44jmesquitawoglinde: All I have to do is sb_menu and select the new target?
20:12.45lcukcan mer run qt stuff?
20:12.55woglindejmesquita for scratchbox yes
20:13.00jmesquitawoglinde: And of course recompile it
20:13.21woglindejmesquita then you have to activate devel-extras in /etc/apt/sources
20:13.27woglindeand install the qtlibs
20:14.12jmesquitawoglinde: Right, the same process I did for x86
20:14.34*** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@a81-84-56-59.cpe.netcabo.pt)
20:15.16*** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman)
20:16.23jmesquitawoglinde: I get an error when running sb-menu
20:16.36jmesquitawoglinde: Should I run it from outside sbox?
20:16.40woglindewhich one?
20:16.59jmesquitawoglinde: That I must close other sessions
20:17.10jmesquitawoglinde: But I have no other sessions logged ...
20:17.17*** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=sporks@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net)
20:17.24woglindehit the killall-prozesses entry
20:17.29woglindeis the last one
20:17.40jmesquitawoglinde: Let me try
20:18.14jmesquitawoglinde: Yep, that did the trick
20:18.17jmesquitawoglinde: Thanks
20:19.00timelessjmesquita: you'll really want pkgconfig :)
20:19.44RST38hhttp://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09%2F02%2F01%2F1931216&from=rss <=== Evil, EVIL!
20:19.50jmesquitatimeless: I took a look at it
20:19.59jmesquitatimeless: And yes, I will need that eventualy
20:20.02jmesquitaeventually
20:20.07jmesquitatimeless: Thanks for the tip
20:20.20timelesspersonally i avoid it, but you want to use it as soon as possible
20:20.25timelessit's really supposed to make life easier
20:20.43timelesspreaches w/o practicing
20:21.37jmesquitatimeless: Ahahaha, well, someone have to have the spare time, right?
20:22.02timelessyeah, if i practiced everything i preached, i'd never get anything i wanted to done :(
20:22.48jmesquitatimeless: You'll end up like me. Managing a dev team
20:23.08woglindejmesquita hehe
20:23.10timelessi'm happy to consult for a couple of dev teams
20:23.13woglindebut this gives more money
20:23.19timelessi don't like the responsibility of being a manager: )
20:25.44jmesquitawoglinde: Well, lets say that managing a team is the closest I can get to developing
20:25.49jmesquitawoglinde: That makes me happy
20:25.59jmesquitawoglinde: I am not bright enough to be the developer
20:27.16timelesscries
20:27.20timelesscapture-root doesn't work w/ mer
20:28.07b-manStskeeps: are you still here? - i'm trying to create a repository on bman.maemobox.org and i was wondering whare i could find a good guide on how to do it.
20:29.23b-mantrys googling
20:31.13*** join/#maemo L0cutus (n=L0cutus@94.160.30.97)
20:40.12*** join/#maemo Gary (n=Gary@freenode/staff/colchester-lug.gary)
20:44.06b-manstarts installing repository management software in ubuntu
20:46.18timelesstries to use application manager to install debhelper and gettext
20:46.24timelessconsiders giving up
20:47.33b-manhehe
20:47.54timelessit says 'updating'
20:47.55qwerty12_N800has dpkg-dev, quilt & debhelper installed in mer via apt-get
20:48.10timelessqwerty: yeah, i'm going to kill app manager and use apt-get
20:48.33qwerty12_N800Make sure to kill apt-worker too :)
20:49.12timelesswhy?
20:49.18timelessjust killed the lock
20:50.05qwerty12_N800apt-worker is h-a-m's annoying backend...
20:50.16timelessdoes mer include diablo's man killer?
20:50.24RST38hHehe, poor watcom cpp died on my mighty macros
20:50.40woglinderst *g*
20:50.42qwerty12_N800timeless, used to
20:51.55RST38hfeels evil now
20:56.04RST38hShit, I do not have any other compiler
20:59.16timelesserr
20:59.29timelesssvn-buildpackage depends on xulrunner-1.9
20:59.35timelesswonders why
21:19.42AStormqwerty12_N800: uhoh
21:19.52AStormI got pwnd by busybox swapon
21:20.03AStormhow can I set swap priority w/o swapon supporting it? :P
21:20.30qwerty12_N800replace swapon with a real one? :)
21:20.40AStormyeah fun
21:20.44AStormthat means installing util-linux
21:20.54AStormnot yet
21:20.59AStormI'd rather test Mer then
21:21.08AStormdo you have a separate swapon app?
21:21.19qwerty12_N800nah, replace the binary directly. swapon is just a symlink to busybox.
21:21.25qwerty12_N800yer, give me 5
21:22.05AStormbtw, lower prio comes first, or higher?
21:22.37AStormseems that lower takes precedence...
21:22.45AStormthat means, latest swap added
21:25.11AStormwrong
21:25.17AStormhigher prio takes precedence
21:25.22AStormchecked :P
21:25.58qwerty12_N800Wish process priority was like that :)
21:26.50AStormyour kernel module is suck
21:27.00AStormweirdness happened
21:27.31AStormprobably memory corruption
21:27.41qwerty12_N800I just compiled them straight ;). that said, 0.5.1 offers no advantages over 0.5 on  2.6.21
21:27.50AStormbtw, why don't lzo1x_* don't want to load, while xvmalloc and compcache did?
21:28.05AStormthe lzo modules complain about some missing symbol I guess
21:28.14AStormI'll better reboot and check dmesg
21:29.15AStormdo you have the lzo modules loaded?
21:29.43qwerty12_N800I never tested the modules... lemme try them now
21:31.07AStormqwerty12_N800: while you're on the run, could you localegen me pl_PL.UTF-8 locale?
21:31.58qwerty12_N800I have localepurge on the tablet, dunno if it's still possible
21:32.22AStormit's not related at all
21:33.11qwerty12_N800"lzo1x_compress: exports duplicate symbol lzo1x_1_compress (owned by kernel)"
21:33.50AStormmhm
21:33.57AStormyeah, probably jffs2 uses that
21:34.00AStorm;P
21:34.18AStormso, please do build against proper .config kernel
21:34.29AStormit may crash otherwise
21:34.54qwerty12_N800it was built against nokia_2420_defconfig :/, any other suggestions?
21:35.41AStormthat defconfig is bollocks
21:35.47AStormset JFFS2 to built-in
21:35.53AStormand all the compressors
21:35.55AStormmight help
21:36.21AStormI mean, actually, the defconfig isn't the config used by Nokia stock kernel build
21:37.05AStormqwerty12_N800: so, when will I get my rebuild? :)
21:38.02qwerty12_N800tomorrow :)
21:38.05t_s_oheh, im still somewhat surprised when it comes to how much of a impact changing SD cards had on idle battery use
21:39.09qwerty12_N800AStorm, but I would have thought that nokia_2420_defconfig would already have jffs2 built in?
21:39.11RST38hhttp://pics.livejournal.com/drugoi/pic/00ptwqwq.jpg
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21:40.05tank-mant_s_o, probably from the meta layer crawler
21:40.31AStormqwerty12_N800: it doesn't apparently
21:42.32AStormqwerty12_N800: ooh, my bad
21:42.41AStormI just allocated 1/2 of device memory last time
21:42.52AStormobviously, it could've crashed all stuff ;P
21:43.21t_s_otank-man: that one is not running. or at least should not be, as i have it as not starting at boot
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21:43.44woglindere jmesquita
21:44.05tank-manyea last time i updated, the crawler was running again
21:44.31t_s_oheh, aware of that happening, but i make it a habit of changing that after a update
21:44.51AStormqwerty12_N800: it seems to work with size = default (31692)
21:45.01AStormsize = 65535 crashed ;P
21:45.19AStormprobably OOM-killed a lot of stuff
21:45.36qwerty12_N800interesting :)
21:45.56AStormbtw, canola loaded a tiny bit faster
21:46.01AStormlike, 1s
21:47.15AStormooh, froze it seems ;P
21:47.28AStormI mean, the device
21:47.45AStormI'll wait to see if watchdog kills is
21:47.46AStorm*it
21:48.53AStormqwerty12_N800: can't run simple localegen for me and give me the files in /usr/share/locales?
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21:50.03AStormweird...
21:50.08AStormwatchdog doesn't kill the device
21:50.24AStormit works, but... not the UI or others
21:50.30AStormweird hang it is
21:50.37AStormscreen and LED work
21:50.40qwerty12_N800not on device, cpu goes way too high for me to be able  to my tablet
21:50.52qwerty12_N800s/able /able to use/
21:51.03AStormhm?
21:51.08AStormnah, why
21:51.23AStormunless, it's the stupid CPU scheduler striking again
21:51.25AStorm;P
21:51.47AStormmaybe the "hang" is due to CPU being pegged
21:51.58AStormbut screen dims smoothly... hmmh
21:52.31AStormshutdown worked apparently at least, LED showed it
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21:53.43AStormno, system hanged, but it was a soft lockup
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22:00.41AStormqwerty12_N800: compcache works...
22:02.42AStormand actually speeds things up a bit. goodie
22:02.50AStormuse it smaller than 1/4
22:02.59AStormI'm trying 16 MB now
22:04.57AStormtried it vs fennec w/ 3 pages open (huge ones)
22:05.14AStormand switch time between apps is now much shorter
22:07.13mavhcare you using sd based swap too?
22:07.28AStormoooh, crashed
22:07.34AStormagain. :/
22:07.42AStormmavhc: I tried, yes
22:07.53AStormthis time, it got killed by watchdog
22:08.12AStormprobably dies due to OOM for some reason
22:08.20*** join/#maemo Phantom (n=Miranda@83.149.10.194)
22:08.27AStormI guess compcache is too stupid to allocate enough slack for unpacking
22:08.31AStormor some such
22:09.12AStormwait, got another "reboot", wtf?
22:12.58AStormand then a hang (hard) on boot
22:13.04AStormmaybe the swap file got corrupted
22:13.21AStormor some else weirdness
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22:31.37b-man(random information) - i have successfuly created a repository for ubuntu :) http://www.bman.maemobox.org/repository
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22:34.07AStormseems like OOM killer gets on a rampage if no swap is available
22:34.12AStormgah
22:35.08AStormbecause Nokia's stupid OOM protector has those 128 MB hardcoded.
22:35.22AStormor tried to kill a kernel thread
22:35.29AStormexcellent messup
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22:43.52b-manWohoooo!!!!!!!, my new ubuntu repository works!!
22:44.28sisto1b-man: what's on it?
22:45.59AStormoooh
22:46.09AStormwhen it crashes, the next boot fails too
22:46.20AStormthis means some device init is broken in the kernel too!
22:46.29AStormexcellent
22:46.41AStormmore reasons to ditch nokia kernel ASAP
22:46.45AStormIt's Mer time then.
22:46.59PhantomDoes anyone know where default package manager in diablo stores repository records?
22:47.02sistoare there any n810 gamers out there?
22:48.48sisto(people who play games on the n810)
22:48.53sisto?
22:49.36wndPhantom, apt's list is at /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list, application manager's list is in /etc/hildon-application-manager/catalogues
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22:49.51b-mansisto1: atm, only ubuntu-rescue-menu, nit-bootmenu-compat, and ubuntu-omap-fb-splash.
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22:50.11Phantomwnd: It's empty, but it still takes sources from somewhere..
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22:53.04lcukwithout worrying about how long itwould take, is it feasible to simply download the kernal to my machine and build it directly without messing with chroots and stuff?
22:53.29lcuki already have gcc and build essential, but have never managed to get the ./configure stage working
22:53.44qwerty12_N800./configure? with a kernel??
22:53.48qwerty12_N800-?
22:54.01lcuki dunno :$
22:54.05lcukdo i need to
22:54.07lcukdont i
22:54.17lcukis out of his depth with kernels
22:54.42Phantomwnd: Update. No, I mistakenly looked wrong place. Yes, it seems that sources are here.
22:55.03qwerty12_N800kernel doesn't use autotools, you don't need to use sbox  to build a kernel, I've done it before with standard toolchain outside sbox
22:55.42lcuknice, thanks qwerty, i might get brave if i get past my current sticking point
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23:00.34PhantomBut there's a problem. While executing "apt-get update" the package manager tries to download files that does not exists (list is here http://slil.ru/26606193) and breaks whole package system by writing in /var/lib/apt/lists in a wrong way.
23:01.43PhantomUnless I manually clear /var/lib/apt/lists, apt refuses to do anything and returns errors.
23:06.16PhantomHow to fix it?
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23:18.13AFBN810Hey stskeeps you there
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23:31.34AStormqwerty12_N800: btw, how can I fix that OOM crash?
23:31.50AStormit seems to me that OOM killer kills some DSME protected process
23:32.13AStormwhy doesn't it swap to another swap first though?
23:32.47AStormthe nokia anti-OOM protector doesn't work when you use compcache
23:32.57AStormas it has 128 MB of free ram hardcoded
23:34.14AStormso you need swap then
23:34.32AStormand if you fill that swap, OOMs will happily reap all random processes
23:35.11AStormmeh, now, new kernels have a special "oom_protect" flag in process proc entry
23:35.15AStormwhich root can set to 1
23:35.44AStormwhich should be used for watchdog protected processes
23:36.18AStormor was it oom_adj
23:36.20AStormwhatever :)
23:37.44FireFoxupdates ubuntu jaunty guide to include the new Ubuntu N8x0 repository and adds a screenshot of the error screen
23:38.17FireFox(for nit-bootmenu-compat)
23:40.35AStormit seems that oom_adj is set correctly...
23:49.47*** join/#maemo ignacius (n=ignacius@152.Red-88-16-122.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
23:50.28AStormlooks like either OOM killer is bugged (possible, it's 2.6.21)
23:50.37AStormor we run out of kernel memory
23:50.52AStormso it kills whatever random
23:51.34AStormor something else is killing stuff on lack of memory (possible, Nokia shouldn't have messed with OOM)

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