IRC log for #maemo on 20090127

`00:00.08`	`FireFox`	`hehe - thay think i'm an expert at firefox XD`
`00:00.28`	`lardman`	`brings his fry-up skills to the fore :)`
`00:00.47`	`lcuk`	`brings the bacon`
`00:00.51`	`lardman`	`yay!`
`00:00.56`	`FireFox`	`woho`
`00:01.09`	`lardman`	`stop lcuk, I should go to bed soon, not start cooking :)`
`00:01.13`	`FireFox`	`grabs two pieces`
`00:01.17`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Mmm`
`00:01.24`	`lcuk`	`tracy came back with some to stock up our very bare fridge, she stood in the shop deciding what to get me, i love her more every day :D`
`00:01.26`	`lardman`	`takes the other 10 then :)`
`00:01.32`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I should make some cookies.`
`00:01.44`	`FireFox`	`lardman: lol`
`00:01.56`	`lcuk`	`lol`
`00:02.06`	`jaem`	`GA: what privacy policy comes with your baking?`
`00:02.13`	`lardman`	`I could do with some food, I foolishly decided to stop driving to work and have walked in and back twice today`
`00:02.28`	`lcuk`	`:) lardman, thats not foolish`
`00:02.40`	`lardman`	`you've not seen the hill! :)`
`00:03.00`	`lcuk`	`you've not seen your toes in a while. it all balances out eventually`
`00:03.03`	`FireFox`	`lol XD`
`00:03.06`	`lardman`	`only a mile each way, but seriously uphill`
`00:03.11`	`lcuk`	`both ways!`
`00:03.16`	`jaem`	`darn - you beat me to it`
`00:03.20`	`lardman`	`:D`
`00:04.20`	`jaem`	`is a fool`
`00:04.24`	`lcuk`	`i think my boss is gonna get himself a tablet by the way :)`
`00:04.26`	`jaem`	`has forgotten his pgp passphrase`
`00:04.35`	`jaem`	`lcuk: nice!`
`00:04.37`	`x29a`	`bruteforce!`
`00:04.54`	`lcuk`	`yes jaem, very nice indeed`
`00:05.22`	`*** part/#maemo LinuxHack3r (n=matt@68-114-163-167.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com)`
`00:05.25`	`jaem`	`x29a: that would be fun... on my dual-core Atom board`
`00:05.38`	`x29a`	`lolz, atom`
`00:05.52`	`jaem`	`well, I have root access to my friend's quad`
`00:06.01`	`lardman`	`looks at Google terrain maps and sees 80-?180m in ~1mile`
`00:06.14`	`lardman`	`s/-?/->`
`00:06.20`	`jaem`	`but that wouldn't help me`
`00:06.33`	`jaem`	`not with 4kb RSA`
`00:08.16`	`johnx`	`jaem, maybe some time on amazon's SC3? :D`
`00:08.38`	`jaem`	`or, maybe GA could hold a bake sale on #maemo, to buy some FPGAs`
`00:08.55`	`jaem`	`Deep Crack Mk II`
`00:09.36`	`jaem`	`well, I have a revocation cert, at least`
`00:09.44`	`jaem`	`but that's not the solution I was hoping for`
`00:10.17`	`*** part/#maemo rdesf1 (n=ryan@c-98-217-136-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net)`
`00:13.21`	`*** join/#maemo sisto (n=sisto@r190-135-143-203.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy)`
`00:16.05`	`lardman`	`hmm, openpandora really does appear dodgy, johnx you here still?`
`00:16.18`	`jaem`	`lardman: why do you say that?`
`00:16.20`	`johnx`	`lardman, yup. still here in both senses :)`
`00:16.53`	`lardman`	`well just looking at the latest blog entry saying "the last LCDs will ship soon", but I read a while back that all the parts were delivered`
`00:17.01`	`johnx`	`I would s/dodgy/horribly unlucky, rather disorganized and somewhat poorly planned/`
`00:17.04`	`lcuk`	`cya later folks`
`00:17.18`	`jaem`	`johnx: I would tend to agree`
`00:17.21`	`dl9pf`	`deb http://frodo-auenland.dyndns.org/maemo/diablo/n810/ ./`
`00:17.24`	`dl9pf`	`for csync`
`00:17.29`	`FireFox`	`see ya, lcuk`
`00:17.42`	`lardman`	`well s/dodgy/intentionally misleading to make sure enough cash is available`
`00:17.54`	`*** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@79-66-23-173.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)`
`00:17.55`	`jaem`	`the device looks pretty awesome, and it's cheaper than I got my N810 for, so if it ships at all, I'd still give them some credit`
`00:18.14`	`StsN800`	`jaem, through bank transfer?`
`00:18.17`	`lardman`	`yeah, except they won't take credit cards any more`
`00:18.40`	`johnx`	`lardman, I honestly think most of it is poor communication and language barriers, not intentional, but I have been accused of optimism WRT the project :P`
`00:18.41`	`jaem`	`Sts: I meant credit as in "woohoo, pat on the back"`
`00:19.15`	`johnx`	`whoosh!`
`00:19.25`	`lardman`	`StsN800: that "enter new root password" dialog might need some work - it capitalises the first letter`
`00:19.46`	`StsN800`	`lardman, yeah, zenity bug i think`
`00:20.03`	`johnx`	`huh...not seeing that behavior in first-boot-wizard...`
`00:20.35`	`lardman`	`that was from the Mer installer`
`00:21.06`	`johnx`	`right, but zenity in both cases`
`00:21.21`	`lardman`	`yep, just being specific :p`
`00:21.23`	`lardman`	`;)`
`00:21.55`	`lardman`	`hmm, press and hold menu didn't work too well that time...`
`00:22.12`	`lardman`	`sits and twiddles thumbs waiting for Maemo to come up`
`00:22.17`	`StsN800`	`lardman, and now refresh_bootmenu.d if you forgot`
`00:22.32`	`lardman`	`run it, or vi it?`
`00:22.38`	`StsN800`	`run`
`00:22.55`	`lardman`	`ok, cool`
`00:23.08`	`StsN800`	`the thing about bug in installer earlier`
`00:25.38`	`lardman`	`hmm, so that flashes initfs again?`
`00:25.45`	`lardman`	`rather than editing a conf file?`
`00:26.16`	`lardman`	`anyway, booting now`
`00:26.27`	`StsN800`	`it flashes current boot conf from rootfs to initfs`
`00:27.01`	`lardman`	`ok`
`00:27.36`	`lardman`	`might be better to get it to look at the conf file on the normal flash, rather than repeatedly flashing initfs`
`00:27.44`	`lardman`	`though I suppose it's generally just a one-off`
`00:27.57`	`StsN800`	`rootfs takes ages to mount`
`00:28.12`	`lardman`	`ah, ok, I see the reasoning`
`00:28.33`	`StsN800`	`in pre-diablo we cannot rely on remount-rw either`
`00:29.30`	`lardman`	`looks good`
`00:29.45`	`lardman`	`will it power-save correctly? Or shall I switch off overnight>`
`00:30.35`	`johnx`	`switching off is suggested at this stage unless you want to test the PM`
`00:30.35`	`lardman`	`hmm, no term installed by default?`
`00:30.48`	`FireFox`	`sets up #ubuntu-n8x0 -- doesn't think it would be verry useful though`
`00:31.05`	`FireFox`	`is still getting buged by a spacific user named mrglinux - because he automaticly assumes i'm an expert at firefox :P`
`00:31.58`	`StsN800`	`lardman, yeah, 0.7 has it -- we had big trouble just before 0.6`
`00:32.17`	`ds3`	`so you must be the plane that clint eastwood flew ;)`
`00:32.33`	`lardman`	`ah, I forgot this was not the bleeding edge`
`00:32.41`	`lardman`	`any easy way to update to that?`
`00:32.59`	`StsN800`	`lardman, ssh in over wifi and apt-get update, install osso-xterm`
`00:33.05`	`lardman`	`and any easy way to switch off, as the hw button doesn't work?`
`00:33.13`	`lardman`	`ok`
`00:33.14`	`StsN800`	`battery pop`
`00:33.19`	`lardman`	`lol`
`00:33.20`	`lardman`	`ok`
`00:33.24`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@78-105-80-81.zone3.bethere.co.uk)`
`00:33.49`	`StsN800`	`im building snapshot of 0.7a atm`
`00:33.58`	`StsN800`	`takes 4-5 hrs`
`00:34.37`	`StsN800`	`then you can point installer at that url`
`00:34.39`	`lardman`	`hmm, can't remember my wpa2 password atm`
`00:34.43`	`lardman`	`battery pop it is`
`00:35.40`	`lardman`	`right, got to hit the sack, cu all tomorrow`
`00:35.44`	`johnx`	`well, now that you've installed it you can use the 'image' version :)`
`00:37.55`	`timeless`	`frowns`
`00:40.46`	`timeless`	`anyone here have some bluetooth devices?`
`00:41.08`	`johnx`	`timeless, a couple. any kind specificly?`
`00:41.20`	`timeless`	`one that could export a readonly filesytem :)`
`00:41.24`	`*** join/#maemo LinuxHack3r (n=matt@68-114-163-167.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com)`
`00:41.55`	`LinuxHack3r`	`So this default email client...is there some way I can make it not show up nokia n810 as an account? same for the removable memory card?`
`00:41.58`	`johnx`	`three that could`
`00:42.22`	`timeless`	`can you pair a tablet to it, and try using file manager to rename a file on that file system?`
`00:43.19`	`LinuxHack3r`	`johnx: You know what I'm talking about?`
`00:43.30`	`johnx`	`timeless, hmm...am I about to be testing strings in closed source Nokia stuffs?`
`00:43.38`	`timeless`	`ye`
`00:43.41`	`johnx`	`LinuxHack3r, sorry, I can't really picture it`
`00:43.57`	`timeless`	`well. should i check the license? :)`
`00:44.15`	`johnx`	`timeless, possibly later. hacking on stuff in Mer right now. If it's open source though, I'd be more interested :)`
`00:44.25`	`timeless`	`nods`
`00:44.28`	`LinuxHack3r`	`johnx: On the right...under my email address as an account...it also lists two other accounts...so to say...one is "Nokia N810", the other is "Removable memory card".`
`00:44.48`	`johnx`	`ah, those are just the 'local storage' bits`
`00:45.05`	`LinuxHack3r`	`johnx: Exactly...can i make them bye bye?`
`00:45.06`	`johnx`	`not accounts so much as folders IIRC`
`00:45.34`	`LinuxHack3r`	`IIRC?`
`00:45.45`	`johnx`	`If I Recall Correctly`
`00:45.51`	`*** join/#maemo ezadkiel_mB_ (n=chatzill@net1.senecac.on.ca)`
`00:45.59`	`*** join/#maemo fauxmight (n=fauxmigh@ip72-198-2-253.ok.ok.cox.net)`
`00:46.18`	`timeless`	`~iirc`
`00:46.19`	`infobot`	`hmm... iirc is "if I recall correctly"`
`00:46.20`	`johnx`	`anyways, I don't think you can get rid of them without editing the source...unless you can find something in options`
`00:46.21`	`wazd`	`It seems that Wiki doesn't support background images at all x(`
`00:46.42`	`wazd`	`~lmao`
`00:46.43`	`infobot`	`hmm... lmao is laughing my ass off, or see lol`
`00:46.46`	`timeless`	`what's he trying to do?`
`00:46.50`	`wazd`	`nice)`
`00:47.08`	`timeless`	`bluetooth control panel lets you rename 'nokia n810'`
`00:47.41`	`LinuxHack3r`	`johnx: Claws looked cool...buy it seemed finicky and pickey. Perhaps if I spent enough time on it I could figure it out...but what is your opinion?`
`00:48.02`	`timeless`	`and you can memory cards too`
`00:48.15`	`timeless`	`but usually those strings can be changed by changing a localization if nothing else`
`00:48.46`	`*** join/#maemo mmc (n=michal@83-103-88-29.ip.fastwebnet.it)`
`00:49.05`	`johnx`	`LinuxHack3r, modest works fine for me. my suggestion: ignore those extra folders and you'll forget about them (as I have)`
`00:49.31`	`LinuxHack3r`	`alright.`
`00:50.28`	`LinuxHack3r`	`johnx: But what about contacts? I'd like to sync with plaxo...you familiar with it?//`
`00:50.40`	`johnx`	`never heard of it`
`00:50.47`	`johnx`	`can plaxo export contacts as a .vcf?`
`00:51.01`	`LinuxHack3r`	`johnx: Yes...but plaxo is more than that.`
`00:51.16`	`LinuxHack3r`	`johnx: http://www.plaxo.com/`
`00:51.22`	`johnx`	`some kind of social networking thing?`
`00:51.41`	`LinuxHack3r`	`johnx: It appears as that's what it's become. But...`
`00:52.30`	`LinuxHack3r`	`johnx: It originally was a contact sync platform. For example...you add someone to your contacts in gmail...it is synced to thunderbird...and outlook....and certain smartphones...and all backwards and whatnot.`
`00:53.00`	`timeless`	`grumbles`
`00:53.07`	`johnx`	`LinuxHack3r, can anyone implement it?`
`00:53.18`	`timeless`	`are tablets not valid bluetooth file servers?`
`00:53.23`	`LinuxHack3r`	`johnx: I believe there is an api or something.`
`00:53.43`	`LinuxHack3r`	`timeless: I sent a few files to my tablet from my computer...if that's what you mean?`
`00:54.12`	`timeless`	`no`
`00:54.16`	`johnx`	`LinuxHack3r, huh. that is somewhat interesting. for now try just having it export a .vcf and importing that`
`00:54.25`	`timeless`	`sending is different from being browsable`
`00:54.47`	`LinuxHack3r`	`johnx: How does one actually import? Just open the contact thing and open a vcf?`
`00:55.05`	`johnx`	`LinuxHack3r, I believe so. don't have it in front of me right now`
`00:55.18`	`johnx`	`Contacts on the N810 isn't that great sadly :/`
`00:55.52`	`LinuxHack3r`	`johnx: Well why not?`
`00:56.25`	`johnx`	`LinuxHack3r, it doesn't support that many fields`
`00:56.37`	`johnx`	`also, this might be of interest to you, WRT plaxo: http://osdir.com/ml/mail.roundcube.devel/2006-10/msg00013.html`
`00:56.42`	`LinuxHack3r`	`johnx: I'm wondering this http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/gpe-contacts/`
`00:57.15`	`johnx`	`yup, that's pretty nice, but sadly doesn't integrate with the default applications like chat and email (as far as I remember)`
`00:57.29`	`*** join/#maemo simboss (n=simone@host67-15-dynamic.27-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`00:58.03`	`LinuxHack3r`	`johnx: Oh..so if I used the default thing..it'll integrate with email and chat....ok...what is chat...I've not clicked that button..I went straight to pidgin.`
`00:58.42`	`johnx`	`ah, then you probably don't care all that much so it might be best just to go for gpe-contacts :)`
`00:58.51`	`*** join/#maemo fireun (n=tako@72-160-105-207.dyn.centurytel.net)`
`00:59.51`	`LinuxHack3r`	`Does it do any sort of syncying? I don't have to use plaxo...if there is some other standard/protocal/service I can use...feel free to suggest it.`
`01:00.16`	`johnx`	`sorry, no good ideas :/`
`01:00.37`	`johnx`	`reads about plaxo :)`
`01:02.13`	`AndrewFBlack`	`\`
`01:05.21`	`timeless`	`frowns`
`01:05.27`	`timeless`	`i'm pretty sure this string isn't reachable`
`01:05.36`	`timeless`	`anyone here have a bluetooth file share?`
`01:05.48`	`timeless`	`does file manager ever let you rename a file via bluetooth?`
`01:09.07`	`*** join/#maemo Kathrin-25^away (n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch)`
`01:21.56`	`*** join/#maemo StOrM_NW (n=josiasju@alm.nlink.com.br)`
`01:23.15`	`sisto`	`LinuxHack3r: how's that quest for contacts going?`
`01:26.09`	`*** join/#maemo sisto1 (n=sisto@r190-135-146-66.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy)`
`01:28.04`	`*** join/#maemo pdz (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa)`
`01:29.31`	`*** join/#maemo neatojones (n=neatojon@71-13-93-186.static.bycy.mi.charter.com)`
`01:31.43`	`timeless`	`sighs`
`01:31.48`	`timeless`	`kicks chess`
`01:32.27`	`johnx`	`mumbles about the real lack of modern PIM anywhere`
`01:32.41`	`jaem`	`mumbles as well`
`01:32.49`	`timeless`	`grumbles`
`01:32.51`	`timeless`	`So...`
`01:32.56`	`timeless`	`If a chess file is 'readonly'`
`01:33.02`	`timeless`	`then game>save says:`
`01:33.03`	`ds3`	`POSE`
`01:33.13`	`timeless`	`"Game is read-only"`
`01:33.25`	`timeless`	`last i checked, games themselves weren't things you wrote`
`01:33.35`	`timeless`	`(you wrote to files [saved game *files])`
`01:33.36`	`johnx`	`ds3, I guess I should have qualified that :P`
`01:34.12`	`timeless`	`but if you try to save the file w/ the same name`
`01:34.15`	`timeless`	`using save as`
`01:34.17`	`timeless`	`you get`
`01:34.20`	`ds3`	`integrating POSE would be nice... a third Linux fork of the legendary PalmOS ;)`
`01:34.31`	`timeless`	`Selected location is read-only`
`01:35.22`	`johnx`	`ds3, heh...i dunno. relying on closed source apps that live in an emulated environment doesn't sit well with me`
`01:35.30`	`johnx`	`and integration would be ... impossible`
`01:35.50`	`ds3`	`well, something on the level of the gvm stuff but more open`
`01:36.05`	`ds3`	`there are nice PalmOS Apps`
`01:36.05`	`johnx`	`but the apps will never be open or able to integrate with the desktop`
`01:36.14`	`jaem`	`hmm`
`01:36.33`	`johnx`	`I won't be able to get at my contacts in pose/gvm from my email client`
`01:37.02`	`ds3`	`you can... fake a hotsync with the pilotlink stuff`
`01:37.32`	`johnx`	`wow...that totally doesn't sound awkward and crufty :P`
`01:37.45`	`jaem`	`you forgot kludge`
`01:38.02`	`ds3`	`the extensive library of legacy apps makes it worthwhile, IMO`
`01:38.23`	`timeless`	`ok. stupid question time`
`01:38.35`	`timeless`	`how does one make a file writable using file manager? :)`
`01:38.37`	`jaem`	`I take your point, but relying on legacy apps that much is a dead-end path`
`01:38.42`	`johnx`	`I'd be against it mainly for the reason that it removes motivation for people to do something better when there is a something 'good enough'`
`01:38.50`	`jaem`	`timeless: the default maemo one? you can't AFAIK`
`01:39.00`	`timeless`	`...`
`01:39.01`	`johnx`	`my pet example being flash`
`01:39.16`	`ds3`	`find a usable modern PIM then :P`
`01:39.16`	`timeless`	`jaem: is there a bug filed for that behavior?`
`01:39.26`	`timeless`	`tries to figure out whose brilliant idea that was`
`01:39.33`	`ds3`	`LookOut and its variants are completely unusable waste of time`
`01:39.40`	`jaem`	`timeless: I just don't think you can change permissions at all in the Maemo FM`
`01:39.52`	`jaem`	`probably because Joe User would mess something up`
`01:40.19`	`ds3`	`we really need to start IGNORING Joe User or you get abominations like FF3`
`01:40.33`	`jaem`	`well, to a point - but you need to find a balance`
`01:40.39`	`johnx`	`ds3, what's wrong with ff3?`
`01:40.58`	`ds3`	`johnx: everything. it is unusable; the whole UI is messed up and broken`
`01:40.58`	`jaem`	`that's why I like KDE4 - it has ridiculous amounts of configuration and tweakability, but you don't need to mess with almost any of it to get going`
`01:41.20`	`johnx`	`ds3, back button, reload button, address bar. check. nope looks ok to me`
`01:41.29`	`jaem`	`I think what the KDE team has done in providing functionality without it getting in your way is exemplary`
`01:41.34`	`jaem`	`ds3?`
`01:41.41`	`ds3`	`some of us use the right click menu`
`01:41.50`	`ds3`	`they scrambled willy-nilly`
`01:42.19`	`ds3`	`then there is the random delays they put in so users can't shoot themselves`
`01:42.48`	`ds3`	`it took a ton of plugins in make FF2 usable (compared to seamonkey); now FF3 just makes that worse`
`01:42.49`	`johnx`	`jaem, does kde4 make the options less invasive than kde3?`
`01:43.14`	`johnx`	`well, I guess I can call myself joe user then :)`
`01:43.49`	`ds3`	`then there is the maintaine of a SECOND history file totally against your config options`
`01:43.50`	`jaem`	`johnx: I never really used KDE3 - I didn't like it - but I think they've done a better job of compromising between the two groups than a lot of software I've seen`
`01:44.07`	`jaem`	`and what do you mean by "invasive"?`
`01:44.33`	`ds3`	`oh and then there is the completely messed up behavior for people who LIKE point to focus`
`01:44.37`	`ds3`	`....`
`01:44.42`	`johnx`	`jaem, for example the edit menu in a normal kde app is dozens of items long`
`01:45.08`	`jaem`	`I guess`
`01:45.44`	`jaem`	`I was referring more to the fact that it needs very little tweaking/setup to get going`
`01:46.00`	`jaem`	`if you don't like to fiddle with settings, it still works fine`
`01:46.08`	`jaem`	`but yeah, some of the dialogs are a bit scary`
`01:46.11`	`firefox`	`johnx: your avatar is one of the first results for a "ubuntu jaunty on nokia n800" google image search; http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl=en&q=ubuntu+jaunty+on+Nokia+N800&btnG=Search+Images --lol`
`01:46.50`	`johnx`	`firefox, heh...wonder how that happened O_o (BTW, I never remember your nick now that you switched from b-man to firefox)`
`01:47.26`	`b-man`	`happy? :)`
`01:47.32`	`johnx`	`quite :)`
`01:47.46`	`firefox`	`oh noez!`
`01:47.54`	`johnx`	`b-man, I'm more likely to actually notice you're around now`
`01:49.17`	`b-man`	`hehe, just remember that i'm usally firefox or b-man ;)`
`01:49.55`	`johnx`	`my brain is set to ignore firefox though :P`
`01:50.03`	`b-man`	`uses firefox to deal with nick-collisions and for fun ;)`
`01:50.12`	`*** join/#maemo ezadkiel_mB (n=chatzill@bas1-cooksville17-1176197203.dsl.bell.ca)`
`01:50.21`	`b-man`	`johnx: lol`
`01:50.21`	`jaem`	`would the N810 be considered a cell phone, or a computer, for customs purposes?`
`01:50.26`	`johnx`	`you have nick collisions with a nick like b-man? or you mean instead of ghosting yourself?`
`01:50.37`	`johnx`	`jaem, a bar of soap or a whiskey flask`
`01:50.43`	`jaem`	`haha`
`01:50.44`	`b-man`	`gohsting myself`
`01:51.00`	`b-man`	`re; ghosting ;p`
`01:53.28`	`b-man`	`wonders why google has not noticed the screenshots i've been uploading for ubuntu jaunty :p`
`01:54.35`	`b-man`	`(on several websites)`
`01:55.12`	`johnx`	`I actually don't see many screenshots on google images`
`01:55.19`	`johnx`	`for anything`
`01:55.21`	`*** join/#maemo edrex (n=eric@209-20-84-12.slicehost.net)`
`01:57.17`	`edrex`	`i have a 770 want to test mer. i have deb/ubuntu chops but no c h4kkor skeelz. perhaps I could help with documenting install process?`
`01:57.52`	`johnx`	`edrex, ah, that would be great!`
`01:58.32`	`edrex`	`i mean my 770 wants to test mer. it keeps making this wailing sound`
`01:58.52`	`edrex`	`not really`
`01:59.11`	`johnx`	`yeah, that might be time for an exorcism not an OS install O_o`
`02:00.11`	`edrex`	`is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.6 all the install documentatio?`
`02:00.31`	`*** join/#maemo x29a_ (n=x29a@unaffiliated/x29a)`
`02:00.40`	`johnx`	`that's it for right now`
`02:01.05`	`johnx`	`anything you wanted to add would be great`
`02:01.11`	`edrex`	`i was so surprised to find mer today. It's really great to see everyone pull together`
`02:01.48`	`jaem`	`oh man... FedEx is gouging me`
`02:02.01`	`b-man`	`lol`
`02:02.03`	`jaem`	`$61 to ship it one way, for a device that only cost me $380`
`02:02.46`	`edrex`	`anyone have more detail on the line "770 port has problems with sapwood..."?`
`02:02.48`	`johnx`	`yeah, things are really starting to come together. :)`
`02:02.55`	`jaem`	`I'm not seriously considering it right now, but, out of curiousity, is the "internal mmc" actually a socketed MMC card that one could feasibly replace by taking apart the N810?`
`02:02.59`	`johnx`	`edrex, ah. that's not accurate any more :)`
`02:03.02`	`edrex`	`like, how to fix`
`02:03.04`	`johnx`	`sapwood is fine now`
`02:03.18`	`edrex`	`do I need a more recent image than 0.6?`
`02:03.30`	`b-man`	`johnx: random, silly, and off-topic question, why did you crop your avatar to not display the "i don't know what your talking about, so here's a rabbit with a bun on his head" typo?`
`02:03.44`	`johnx`	`edrex, you can just apt-get update && apt-get upgrade once you install`
`02:04.18`	`edrex`	`johnx: thanks, I'll note that on wiki`
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`02:05.12`	`b-man`	`starts to create a diff of merinstaller_1.9.4-1mer1 for stskeeps`
`02:05.16`	`johnx`	`b-man, I didn't want to distract people with something that makes sense`
`02:05.20`	`edrex`	`johnx: no x so using usb for network?`
`02:05.32`	`edrex`	`or is there cnetworkmanager?`
`02:06.04`	`b-man`	`johnx: lol`
`02:06.23`	`johnx`	`edrex, use usb network for now. I don't think wifi is working right yet on the 770`
`02:06.32`	`johnx`	`r2d2rogers, did you ever get wifi working in mer?`
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`02:09.46`	`soap`	`stupid noob question - but what is the performance of mer currently and expected? In a nutshell, can it be as fast as maemo on N8x0 hardware or is there more overhead?`
`02:09.55`	`lopz`	`night`
`02:10.32`	`r2d2rogers`	`johnx: no`
`02:10.40`	`johnx`	`soap, I think it should be roughly the same in general, and hopefully the browser will be a little faster compared to the default browser in maemo`
`02:11.17`	`edrex`	`r2d2rogers: have a plan?`
`02:12.22`	`r2d2rogers`	`johnx I've just installed 32bit Jaunty for the SDK`
`02:12.32`	`edrex`	`r2d2rogers: I know there was an open driver release for 8x0 a couple of months ago, but at the time it didn't seem like 770 support would be added`
`02:13.31`	`r2d2rogers`	`edrex: I have source and patches to compile`
`02:13.34`	`johnx`	`right now we're using the old Nokia driver on the n8x0 too`
`02:14.21`	`soap`	`johnx, so the main "advantage" as far as an end user is concerned is the continuation of support through userspace updates which Nokia will likely never get around to?`
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`02:15.02`	`edrex`	`johnx: right, is the problem that the 770 driver won't work with newer kernels?`
`02:16.32`	`b-man`	`hi, AndrewFBlack`
`02:16.35`	`johnx`	`edrex, yeah`
`02:16.50`	`AndrewFBlack`	`Hey b-man`
`02:16.54`	`johnx`	`soap, well, the other advantage is having access to ubuntu's software library :)`
`02:17.00`	`AndrewFBlack`	`Whats up`
`02:17.18`	`soap`	`hmm, Clan Bomber. ;)`
`02:18.08`	`soap`	`johnx, last stupid question. I assume the goal is not to go full gnome? but to keep a more minimal WM and DE?`
`02:18.47`	`johnx`	`soap, the goal is to be maemo compatible :)`
`02:19.03`	`johnx`	`so, we'll stick with hildon-desktop and bring the libraries up the fremantle levels`
`02:19.21`	`johnx`	`*up to fremantle versions`
`02:19.34`	`b-man`	`creating a fuew sorce packages for merinstaller 1.9.4`
`02:21.26`	`soap`	`tasty`
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`02:27.26`	`b-man`	`lol - http://www.millne.com/wp-content/uploads/15042008373-small.jpg`
`02:28.35`	`johnx`	`nice`
`02:28.36`	`edrex`	`r2d2rogers: you're looking at the work done by Andrew de Quincey? I'm reading the list archive now.`
`02:30.36`	`edrex`	`Kalle is very helpful. Thankfully lawyers can't understand piglatin`
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`02:40.42`	`b-man`	`thinks about installing the rotation kernel and give it a try in ubuntu/mer`
`02:42.16`	`b-man`	`johnx: do you think rotation might crash xorg?`
`02:42.29`	`johnx`	`b-man, I think it probably will at this point, yes`
`02:42.39`	`b-man`	`hmm`
`02:42.47`	`johnx`	`xserver-xorg-video-omapfb probably nees to have rotation support added`
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`04:22.00`	`[TIWizard]`	`Eh... Is it my client, or is it quiet in here?`
`04:22.20`	`jaem`	`it's quiet`
`04:22.29`	`[TIWizard]`	`Oh, good :)`
`04:22.36`	`[TIWizard]`	`I thought I broke something...`
`04:22.48`	`radic_`	`hmm`
`04:23.03`	`radic_`	`[TIWizard]: it's 5:22AM`
`04:23.26`	`[TIWizard]`	`Oh. 8:30 here.`
`04:23.31`	`[TIWizard]`	`At night*`
`04:23.58`	`johnx`	`I'm awake...I just wish I wasn't :)`
`04:23.59`	`radic_`	`[TIWizard]: where are you?`
`04:24.09`	`[TIWizard]`	`Washington state, USA :D`
`04:24.24`	`r2d2rogers`	`edrex: Sorry I was in class, are you still about?`
`04:24.51`	`radic_`	`[TIWizard]: you want to change withe me?`
`04:25.11`	`[TIWizard]`	`Err...`
`04:27.58`	`*** join/#maemo Grackle (n=Alex@frenchad3-1.umeres.maine.edu)`
`04:29.58`	`radic_`	`wow, my ordered digital camara was send yesterday...`
`04:30.40`	`*** join/#maemo Pavlz (n=Pavlz@94.37.197.98)`
`04:30.54`	`Pavlz`	`hello`
`04:31.21`	`radic_`	`good morning Pavlz`
`04:31.30`	`Pavlz`	`anyone know how is possible`
`04:32.05`	`radic_`	`no, cause you dosn't said waht should be possible`
`04:32.11`	`Pavlz`	`to remove the audio player, video player`
`04:32.42`	`Pavlz`	`and rss feed reader from nokia 770`
`04:32.56`	`Pavlz`	`using the shell ?`
`04:33.31`	`Pavlz`	`i just moved .sounds .images .documents`
`04:33.52`	`Pavlz`	`.video`
`04:34.41`	`radic_`	`dpkg -l`
`04:34.43`	`Pavlz`	`i got on the nokia 770 mplayer, kmplayer, ogg vorbis player`
`04:34.52`	`radic_`	`and you see the installed packages`
`04:35.48`	`radic_`	`then search for the righte ones and remove them withe apt-get or dpkg`
`04:35.59`	`Pavlz`	`xchat, maemo recorders, streamtuner`
`04:36.30`	`Pavlz`	`thanks`
`04:36.59`	`Pavlz`	`but i never moved with apt-get`
`04:37.38`	`Pavlz`	`i have only used it to install the packages`
`04:38.23`	`radic_`	`apt-get remove`
`04:39.00`	`johnx`	`removing parts of the media player might cause it to not boot`
`04:39.23`	`johnx`	`make sure you have backups`
`04:40.16`	`radic_`	`johnx: is there a way to creat a rootfs-image?`
`04:40.55`	`johnx`	`cat /dev/mtdblock4 > file`
`04:40.57`	`johnx`	`maybe?`
`04:41.13`	`johnx`	`you'll probably want it mounted read-only when you do that though`
`04:41.28`	`radic_`	`mount -o remount,ro /`
`04:41.31`	`radic_`	`?`
`04:41.37`	`johnx`	`sure, if that works`
`04:41.52`	`radic_`	`I don't know`
`04:42.17`	`radic_`	`I'll try it later...`
`04:42.19`	`johnx`	`well, I mean it should work, but if a file is open writeable then it probably won't`
`04:43.37`	`radic_`	`johnx: what's /dev/mtd1 for an device?`
`04:44.08`	`johnx`	`I think that's the 'raw' NAND device, first partition`
`04:44.34`	`radic_`	`johnx: It contains the lock-code If set`
`04:45.13`	`johnx`	`ok. then why did you ask? :P`
`04:45.47`	`johnx`	`or is this a quiz?`
`04:45.59`	`radic_`	`I wanted to know what kind of device it is`
`04:46.19`	`johnx`	`aaah, ok. I thought it was a quiz :)`
`04:46.27`	`*** join/#maemo Pavlz (n=Pavlz@unaffiliated/pavlz)`
`04:46.57`	`Pavlz`	`at the moment i did only a simple`
`04:47.10`	`Pavlz`	`apt-get update`
`04:47.26`	`Pavlz`	`apt-get dist-upgrade`
`04:48.03`	`Pavlz`	`but i don't understand why it is not possible to`
`04:48.38`	`Pavlz`	`have a custom os on own nokia 770`
`04:48.48`	`johnx`	`it is possible`
`04:48.54`	`johnx`	`look at deblet, or mer`
`04:48.57`	`Pavlz`	`how ?`
`04:49.16`	`*** join/#maemo FireFox (n=b-man@cpe-98-31-62-244.woh.res.rr.com)`
`04:49.32`	`Pavlz`	`what are deblet or mer ?`
`04:49.37`	`ezadkiel_mB`	`can you sudo su in scratchbox?`
`04:49.47`	`Pavlz`	`where to search them ?`
`04:50.20`	`johnx`	`~deblet`
`04:50.42`	`infobot`	`extra, extra, read all about it, deblet is http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet`
`04:50.42`	`johnx`	`~mer`
`04:50.43`	`infobot`	`methinks mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer`
`04:50.43`	`johnx`	`infobot, ping`
`04:50.44`	`infobot`	`~pong`
`04:50.56`	`FireFox`	`hehe`
`04:52.22`	`johnx`	`infobot, you're slow`
`04:52.23`	`infobot`	`i'll take that as a complement`
`04:52.32`	`FireFox`	`lol`
`04:56.35`	`radic_`	`johnx: is it possible to port gnome for the N800?`
`04:57.01`	`johnx`	`it's in mer and deblet and b-man has a neat little howto for installing ubuntu`
`04:57.09`	`FireFox`	`uses gnome in ubuntu on his N800`
`04:57.17`	`johnx`	`it's way too heavy though`
`04:57.31`	`FireFox`	`not ifou use swap ;)`
`04:57.44`	`FireFox`	`re; if you`
`04:57.47`	`johnx`	`how much swap? :P`
`04:57.49`	`Pavlz`	`yes ok`
`04:57.59`	`FireFox`	`250-356mb ;p`
`04:58.05`	`Pavlz`	`i saw the deblet`
`04:58.32`	`johnx`	`mer is the continuation of deblet in many ways`
`04:58.46`	`Pavlz`	`but there was only screeshots for nokia 800`
`04:58.58`	`Pavlz`	`nothing for nokia 770`
`04:59.19`	`FireFox`	`starts to install vista-menu in ubuntu`
`04:59.26`	`johnx`	`Pavlz, there are more than one screenshots of the 770 on the page I linked...`
`05:00.01`	`Pavlz`	`and then i got a little problem with the mmc`
`05:00.23`	`Pavlz`	`it doesn't enter more`
`05:01.47`	`Pavlz`	`one time the nokia 770 fells`
`05:01.53`	`johnx`	`ouch :(`
`05:02.09`	`Pavlz`	`and the slot eject the mmc`
`05:02.42`	`Pavlz`	`this means to go to the center of assistance`
`05:03.28`	`Pavlz`	`to solve a problem of a spring`
`05:03.44`	`johnx`	`does it work now?`
`05:03.54`	`Pavlz`	`yes`
`05:04.31`	`Pavlz`	`i am chatting with you now with the nokia 770`
`05:04.40`	`johnx`	`ah good :)`
`05:04.56`	`johnx`	`but, does the mmc slot work now?`
`05:05.51`	`Pavlz`	`the mmc no`
`05:06.20`	`Pavlz`	`if i try to insert it espulses the mmc`
`05:06.51`	`johnx`	`ejects?`
`05:07.06`	`Pavlz`	`to go to the center of assistance means`
`05:07.38`	`Pavlz`	`to wait a month first i have back the nokia`
`05:07.53`	`Pavlz`	`it is an old problem`
`05:08.25`	`Pavlz`	`it was solved, but now is out of warranty`
`05:23.13`	`*** join/#maemo infobot (i=ibot@rikers.org)`
`05:23.13`	`*** topic/#maemo is Web Design meeting January 27th @ 14:00 UTC in #maemo-meeting \| http://maemo.org \| Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council \| http://mxr.maemo.org \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog`
`05:23.23`	`johnx`	`infobot, what's happening?`
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`05:32.04`	`jaem`	`what the heck is happenin?`
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`05:32.05`	`jaem`	`-g`
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`05:32.35`	`LinuxCode`	`jaem, global reboot i think`
`05:32.35`	`jaem`	`ah`
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`06:00.08`	`wazd`	`Morning all`
`06:00.38`	`Pavlz`	`is there a quemu for nokia 770 ?`
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`06:00.40`	`Pavlz`	`good morning`
`06:01.30`	`Pavlz`	`i would to mount the openmoko on nokia 770`
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`06:19.59`	`bef0rd`	`pom pom pom`
`06:23.02`	`monkeyiq`	`robtaylor: ping?`
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`07:25.18`	`timeless`	`hello cruel world`
`07:25.30`	`timeless`	`suppose you had the unfortunate luck of using gnomevfs`
`07:25.37`	`timeless`	`and you tried to move a folder to some location`
`07:25.39`	`cruel_world`	`hello timeless`
`07:25.44`	`timeless`	`at the end of the process`
`07:25.48`	`timeless`	`you receive error:`
`07:25.52`	`timeless`	`GNOME_VFS_ERROR_DIRECTORY_NOT_EMPTY:`
`07:25.58`	`liri`	`Stskeeps: any news on evolution?`
`07:26.27`	`timeless`	`what does that mean? :)`
`07:26.52`	`Mousey`	`yay sshfs!`
`07:26.54`	`Mousey`	`huggles`
`07:27.16`	`timeless`	`cruel_world: why do you tease me sos?`
`07:27.29`	`cruel_world`	`because I'm cruel`
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`07:29.03`	`timeless`	`you're not helping`
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`07:29.11`	`jaem`	`lol - sorry`
`07:29.13`	`timeless`	`fires world`
`07:29.26`	`Mousey`	`hello's world`
`07:29.29`	`jaem`	`gets the BIG fire extinguisher`
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`07:30.07`	`jaem`	`http://www.lolbuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/mark-condit.jpg`
`07:30.18`	`timeless`	`jaem: use of 'flood' was banned after recreation of the world :)`
`07:30.26`	`Mousey`	`lolbuntu`
`07:30.27`	`Mousey`	`NO`
`07:30.27`	`jaem`	`hehe`
`07:30.28`	`Mousey`	`WAI`
`07:30.34`	`jaem`	`YA WAI`
`07:31.31`	`Mousey`	`aw`
`07:31.35`	`Mousey`	`not as funny as i was hoping`
`07:31.37`	`Mousey`	`like lolcode`
`07:31.44`	`jaem`	`lol`
`07:32.48`	`jaem`	`the top post on ICHC is amusing`
`07:32.50`	`Mousey`	`i thot lolbuntu would be like, written in memes, and firefox's homepage set to 4chan`
`07:33.10`	`jaem`	`haha`
`07:33.23`	`jaem`	`I CAN HAZ ROOT PASSWERD?`
`07:33.26`	`Mousey`	`and of course can has linux viruses`
`07:33.30`	`jaem`	`[sudo]`
`07:33.31`	`Mousey`	`dammit, beat me to the can has joke`
`07:33.39`	`jaem`	`haha`
`07:34.05`	`Mousey`	`and when you boot it, it's pedobear graphic, it reads OH HAI`
`07:34.11`	`jaem`	`...`
`07:34.13`	`Mousey`	`^_^`
`07:34.29`	`Mousey`	`ok ok.. lolbuntu coulda been a contender, now it's already ol`
`07:34.29`	`Mousey`	`d`
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`07:36.17`	`jaem`	`hmm... ICHC is working on an API`
`07:36.19`	`jaem`	`"EG: Iâd make an application that does [WOW], if the Cheez Devs make an API that gives me [STUFF]."`
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`07:37.17`	`jaem`	`night everybody`
`07:37.18`	`Khertan_n810`	`Hello !`
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`07:38.02`	`Khertan_n810`	`someone can help me and try mnotes 0.3.0 in extras-devel ?`
`07:38.39`	`Khertan_n810`	`two users report it doesn t launch`
`07:39.10`	`Khertan_n810`	`but i can t get any more info from they`
`07:41.16`	`Khertan_n810`	`ping ?`
`07:44.08`	`Khertan_n810`	`hum ... seems disconnected again`
`07:45.41`	`LinuxCode`	`Khertan_n810, you are here`
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`07:46.46`	`Khertan_n810`	`thx`
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`07:56.30`	`Khertan_n810`	`bye`
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`08:13.26`	`*** join/#maemo ZrZ (n=RzR@lav35-1-82-236-136-171.fbx.proxad.net)`
`08:18.43`	`timeless`	`considers`
`08:18.48`	`timeless`	`should i translate this string as`
`08:18.58`	`timeless`	`"please file a bug explaining how you got to this message"`
`08:19.21`	`*** join/#maemo mk8 (n=torello@ip-212-138.sn1.eutelia.it)`
`08:19.49`	`timeless`	`# https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4047`
`08:19.49`	`timeless`	`msgid "ckdg_ib_unable_to_move_to_current_location"`
`08:19.49`	`timeless`	`msgstr "Please file a bug explaining how you got to this message"`
`08:19.56`	`timeless`	`:ws`
`08:20.42`	`*** join/#maemo sergio (n=sergio@fanzine.igalia.com)`
`08:21.37`	`*** join/#maemo ceyusa (n=ceyusa@cm216016.red83-165.mundo-r.com)`
`08:22.23`	`timeless`	`sighs`
`08:22.28`	`timeless`	`these people suck`
`08:23.04`	`timeless`	`Unable to do <generic action> != Unable to do some <generic actions>`
`08:27.15`	`*** join/#maemo Khertan_n810 (n=d4eabb96@AAmiens-151-1-3-169.w83-192.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`08:27.42`	`Khertan_n810`	`Multi touch is now patented by Apple`
`08:27.44`	`Khertan_n810`	`nice !`
`08:28.46`	`Khertan_n810`	`but this is not the hardware part which is patented now ...`
`08:28.58`	`Khertan_n810`	`but also the fact to pinch to zoom ...`
`08:29.08`	`Khertan_n810`	`this software patent really sucks !`
`08:36.36`	`wazd`	`Haven't they patented "click" yet?)`
`08:37.55`	`timeless`	`i thought that was ebay`
`08:39.09`	`Khertan_n810`	`one click is amazon`
`08:39.35`	`Khertan_n810`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1-Click`
`08:39.57`	`Khertan_n810`	`In response to the lawsuit, the Free Software Foundation urged a boycott of Amazon.com until September 2002.[11]`
`08:40.37`	`wazd`	`This is a bad sign actually cause when company starts to do that kind of ridiculous stuff - then it has nothing to show`
`08:40.40`	`Khertan_n810`	`huhu ... we will not be able to bought anything if we boycott company each time they use stupid patent`
`08:42.04`	`*** join/#maemo sergio (n=sergio@fanzine.igalia.com)`
`08:45.02`	`*** join/#maemo frade (n=ivan@esprx01x.nokia.com)`
`08:47.44`	`*** join/#maemo luogni (n=luogni@host57-218-static.90-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it)`
`08:47.53`	`Jaffa_`	`Morning, all`
`08:48.04`	`*** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@83-215-234-121.stadt.stat.salzburg-online.at)`
`08:48.12`	`wazd`	`Jaffa: Hey`
`08:48.36`	`wazd`	`Jaffa: I'm hacking around the sandbox :)`
`08:50.22`	`*** join/#maemo pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0C0BA.access.telenet.be)`
`08:51.17`	`Jaffa`	`goes to have a look...`
`08:51.37`	`Jaffa`	`is getting really pissed off with Clay Thingy. Enough to put me off RRV anyway`
`08:52.30`	`*** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@pluto.systemone.at)`
`08:55.04`	`*** join/#maemo greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net)`
`08:59.52`	`*** join/#maemo L0cutus (n=L0cutus@host-84-223-127-74.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`09:00.26`	`L0cutus`	`buongiorno`
`09:04.23`	`wazd`	`L0cutus: hey there`
`09:07.35`	`wazd`	`Jaffa: can you help me a bit?) I can't trace weird bug (`
`09:08.03`	`Jaffa`	`wazd: looking good. You've spelt "distribution" incorrectly, FWIW`
`09:08.05`	`*** join/#maemo sandman2 (n=s@CPE-65-27-99-139.new.res.rr.com)`
`09:08.15`	`sandman2`	`Will the n810 ever be getting 3D acceleration?`
`09:08.30`	`timeless`	`that question isn't very well phrased`
`09:08.36`	`Jaffa`	sandman2: there's a `Drivers justification' wiki page
`09:08.41`	`timeless`	`the n810 is shipped hardware. the hardware won't ever change`
`09:08.50`	`timeless`	`it'd be something else`
`09:08.58`	`sandman2`	`timeless: The n810 has a 3D accelerator in it.`
`09:09.13`	`doc\|home`	`it does?`
`09:09.17`	`doc\|home`	`does the n800?`
`09:09.19`	`*** join/#maemo ab (n=ab@pdpc/supporter/professional/ab)`
`09:09.20`	`sandman2`	`Yes`
`09:09.20`	`wazd`	`Jaffa: oh. crap :)`
`09:09.22`	`sandman2`	`They both do`
`09:09.26`	`sandman2`	`But they lack drivers`
`09:09.38`	`timeless`	`jaffa: the text in powervr needs an editor`
`09:09.40`	`wazd`	`Jaffa: can you find missing right block of the table?)`
`09:09.47`	`timeless`	`(in that case a PowerVR too)`
`09:09.48`	`sandman2`	`It's the PowerVR 3d accelerator. The SoC in the Nokia n810 is capable of running Quake3 @ like 50 FPS`
`09:09.57`	`timeless`	`implies the iphone has multiple accelerators`
`09:10.03`	`sandman2`	`But it's not doing that, because of IP issues.`
`09:10.20`	`jaska`	`imaginary property`
`09:10.26`	`sandman2`	`Nokia, afaik, refuses to get the drivers for it. And as a result, they are losing out on a very great deal of money`
`09:10.30`	`sandman2`	`jaska: Exactly`
`09:10.45`	`sandman2`	`I know many folks who would have already snagged an n810, years ago`
`09:10.54`	`sandman2`	`If it weren't for the blast 3d acceleration problem`
`09:10.59`	`sandman2`	`blasted*`
`09:11.20`	`wazd`	`sandman2: but you don't know what price does PowerVR license has :)`
`09:12.05`	`sandman2`	`Well, why aren't we reverse engineering it?`
`09:12.13`	`timeless`	`reverse engineering what?`
`09:12.14`	`*** join/#maemo Ciroip (n=Ciroippp@adsl-ull-173-177.51-151.net24.it)`
`09:12.15`	`*** join/#maemo Ciroipp (n=Ciroippp@adsl-ull-173-177.51-151.net24.it)`
`09:12.16`	`timeless`	`and who is we?`
`09:12.27`	`timeless`	`the powervr specs are iirc available`
`09:12.36`	`wazd`	`sandman2: and again, SoC in the Nokia n810 isn't capable to run 800x480 static image :)`
`09:12.37`	`suihkulokki`	`timeless: I think "we" is sandman in this case ;)`
`09:12.43`	`sandman2`	`timeless: We as in, all of us and myself, except for you.`
`09:12.53`	`timeless`	`yeah, i'm pretty sure i'm not allowed to do it`
`09:13.04`	`timeless`	`since i've probably seen relevant bits`
`09:13.11`	`timeless`	`which would make me toxic to any such project :)`
`09:13.24`	`Stskeeps`	`morning`
`09:13.31`	`wazd`	`Stskeeps: heya`
`09:13.44`	`Stskeeps`	`sandman2: 3d acceleration discussion has been going on for ages`
`09:14.01`	`sandman2`	`Stskeeps: I see. Well, it's a shame, really.`
`09:14.02`	`wazd`	`Stskeeps: screw 3d acceleration, help me :)`
`09:14.04`	`Stskeeps`	`nokia/TI's giving out OSS free kernel drivers and free 3d drivers for omap3, next device`
`09:14.12`	`Stskeeps`	`which is quite a development`
`09:14.12`	`sandman2`	`There are so many folks who decided against the N810 for that one feature.`
`09:14.24`	`wazd`	`sandman2: power vr cant handle such large screen`
`09:14.29`	`sandman2`	`Stskeeps: Well, that would be lovely.`
`09:14.36`	`Stskeeps`	`the drivers nokia published are even feeding off on beagleboard etc`
`09:14.43`	`sandman2`	`wazd: Right, I'm not arguing there's a good reason it's not enabled.`
`09:14.45`	`wazd`	`sandman2: it's just 640x480 max`
`09:14.51`	`Stskeeps`	`sandman2: but that is SGX, not MBX :/`
`09:14.55`	`timeless`	`sandman2: this channel isn't a good way to tell nokia why people didn't buy their product`
`09:14.58`	`sandman2`	`I'm just saying, I happen to _know_ that Nokia has lost loads of sales simply because of that 3D thing`
`09:15.09`	`timeless`	`if you're here, you're supposed to be someone who's using the software stack`
`09:15.10`	`Stskeeps`	`obviously`
`09:15.14`	`sandman2`	`Many people are under the impression that there's the hardware there, and that they are also paying for it, but that they are being prevented from using it.`
`09:15.24`	`Stskeeps`	`sandman2: we know, we know, speaking to the choir`
`09:15.25`	`timeless`	`i happen to know nokia has lost many more sales because they didn't spend much on marketing`
`09:15.27`	`Stskeeps`	`next device will have it`
`09:15.27`	`Stskeeps`	`:P`
`09:15.29`	`sandman2`	`timeless: Really? I didn't read that anywhere.`
`09:15.33`	`wazd`	`sandman2: If license cost 2 million euros - I think they've done right thing )`
`09:15.43`	`Stskeeps`	`wazd: help with what?`
`09:15.46`	`sandman2`	`wazd: Why are they using a chip with retarded IP all over it like that?`
`09:15.55`	`timeless`	`for the record, i have no idea what the marketing budget is/was`
`09:16.00`	`Stskeeps`	`sandman2: because of it's magic low power usage :)`
`09:16.01`	`wazd`	`Stskeeps: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Wazd/Sandbox/Mer`
`09:16.15`	`timeless`	`however, having traveled around, i can say with confidence that there wasn't much spent in the us`
`09:16.22`	`sandman2`	`Stskeeps: When is the next nokia n-series coming out?`
`09:16.30`	`timeless`	`saw plenty of iphone ads and garmin touch ads`
`09:16.33`	`wazd`	`sandman2: why birds fly?)`
`09:16.34`	`Stskeeps`	`sandman2: summer-ish, noone really knows. life a thief in the night, probably`
`09:16.37`	`*** join/#maemo AD-N770 (n=jep@o.bcn.fluendo.net)`
`09:16.43`	`timeless`	`wazd: black text on black background`
`09:16.45`	`timeless`	`'uggh'`
`09:16.49`	`sandman2`	`Blarg.`
`09:16.59`	`wazd`	`timeless: the bug is not the text`
`09:17.00`	`Stskeeps`	`wazd: i would use another font for artwork :P`
`09:17.10`	`suihkulokki`	`the thing most geeks completly fail to underestimate is the power of merketing`
`09:17.15`	`wazd`	`Stskeeps: can you find that lost right block?)`
`09:17.27`	`Macer`	`got root on my g1`
`09:17.32`	`Stskeeps`	`Macer: hah. :P`
`09:17.35`	`Jaffa`	`wazd: so the missing content block at the right hand side (the cutout) is a missing table column?`
`09:17.39`	`suihkulokki`	`products do not become successess/failures according to their spec sheet`
`09:17.39`	`Macer`	`=)`
`09:17.50`	`wazd`	`Jaffa: yep`
`09:18.05`	`Macer`	`kubuntu on my macbook doesnt let my wifi go into adhoc mode`
`09:18.07`	`sandman2`	`I just didn't want to get stuck using the OpenPandora`
`09:18.17`	`Macer`	`i guess ill install vista on it haha`
`09:18.18`	`Stskeeps`	`sandman2: what, the bank transfers pandora? :P`
`09:18.35`	`Stskeeps`	`sandman2: anyhow, the rumours for RX-51 looks delicious.`
`09:18.36`	`Macer`	`i need adhoc to tether the g1`
`09:19.02`	`Macer`	`maybe ill try my n800 when i get home`
`09:19.17`	`timeless`	`"Unable to open.\n"`
`09:19.18`	`timeless`	`"Folder not found."`
`09:19.20`	`Macer`	`that should be able to go adhoc`
`09:19.26`	`timeless`	`could someone suggest what that means? :)`
`09:19.50`	`Macer`	`sunday is when next mer release comes out sts?`
`09:19.58`	`Macer`	`i am anxious to use it`
`09:20.17`	`Jaffa`	`wazd: the third row only has two columns, not three.`
`09:20.39`	`Jaffa`	`wazd: I think I can fix it, if you want?`
`09:21.25`	`wazd`	`Jaffa: sure!`
`09:21.47`	`*** join/#maemo dneary (n=dneary@ALyon-152-1-72-4.w86-194.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`09:22.11`	`wazd`	`Jaffa: and if you can align menu to the center - that would be awesome :)`
`09:22.12`	`Macer`	`Stskeeps: so is mer just like deblet?`
`09:22.24`	`Macer`	`or a whole new thing altogether?`
`09:22.41`	`Macer`	`i thought deblet was very promising`
`09:23.13`	`*** join/#maemo fab (n=bellet@monkey.creatis.insa-lyon.fr)`
`09:24.33`	`timeless`	`hey`
`09:24.39`	`timeless`	`i need a tool`
`09:24.43`	`timeless`	`could someone write it for me?`
`09:24.47`	`timeless`	`i need to convert:`
`09:24.51`	`timeless`	`# UNUSED STRING`
`09:24.52`	`timeless`	`x`
`09:24.53`	`timeless`	`y`
`09:24.53`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`09:24.58`	`RST38h`	`i?`
`09:25.03`	`timeless`	`into # ...\n#x\n#y\n`
`09:25.14`	`timeless`	`:)`
`09:25.22`	`timeless`	`(yeah, i'll write it eventually`
`09:25.57`	`*** join/#maemo frade (n=ivan@esprx01x.nokia.com)`
`09:26.01`	`timeless`	`actually, it should probably also lose # lines before 'unused string'`
`09:26.01`	`oli`	`you want to put a # on the beggining of every line? ;]`
`09:26.23`	`timeless`	`only lines that don't begin w/ a #, and only in 'paragraphs that have # UNUSED STRING'`
`09:26.23`	`Stskeeps`	`Macer: mer is more ubuntu than maemo and more maemo than ubuntu :P (.. or it will be)`
`09:26.33`	`timeless`	`i.e. stop #'ing at first blank line`
`09:26.36`	`Stskeeps`	`timeless: pogrep looks nice`
`09:27.15`	`timeless`	`will it tell me if strings are used anywhere? :)`
`09:27.28`	`Macer`	`heh`
`09:27.39`	`timeless`	`(mxr can tell me that)`
`09:27.49`	`timeless`	`if the answer is 16 files, then the answer is 'no'`
`09:27.50`	`Macer`	`well... i want to try it out`
`09:27.53`	`Stskeeps`	`well it can also do inverse match :P`
`09:28.19`	`Macer`	`if i can tether it to my g1 using the adhoc connection then it would be worth it`
`09:28.35`	`Macer`	`how is the hw support going?`
`09:28.47`	`timeless`	`sts: so... --search=notes ?`
`09:28.52`	`Macer`	`if it is maemoish.. can i use my su8w?`
`09:28.58`	`timeless`	`no`
`09:29.05`	`timeless`	`i can't figure out how to make it do something remotely useful`
`09:29.29`	`timeless`	`http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/pogrep`
`09:29.41`	`timeless`	`oh`
`09:29.44`	`timeless`	`it's the -e bit?`
`09:30.01`	`Macer`	`i think when i get home im going to try vista on my macbook`
`09:30.08`	`timeless`	`pogrep --search=notes -e 'UNUSED STRING'`
`09:30.29`	`Macer`	`i need to adhoc this fucking macbook`
`09:31.17`	`oli`	`adhoc wlan?`
`09:32.05`	`wazd`	`hmmm`
`09:32.12`	`RST38h`	`moo wazd`
`09:32.25`	`*** join/#maemo Khertan_n810 (n=d4eabb96@AAmiens-151-1-3-169.w83-192.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`09:32.29`	`Khertan_n810`	`re`
`09:32.45`	`wazd`	`RST38h: hey) Check it out: http://habrahabr.ru/blogs/netbook/50234/#comment_1321057`
`09:33.20`	`*** join/#maemo alterego (n=tswindel@84-51-136-121.tycoin522.adsl.metronet.co.uk)`
`09:33.35`	`wazd`	`RST38h: I wonder what does he mean with "New Maemo Nokia's" :)`
`09:34.03`	`timeless`	`grumbles`
`09:34.12`	`timeless`	`the best thing for this stuff would be to delete it all`
`09:34.31`	`timeless`	`anyone know if any open source code is stupid enough to use nokia localization files/`
`09:34.35`	`timeless`	`(excluding mer)`
`09:38.11`	`*** join/#maemo benh_ (n=benh@147.17.168.202-static.velocitynet.com.au)`
`09:39.32`	`Stskeeps`	`timeless: well, we only get the engineering english`
`09:39.38`	`Stskeeps`	`with !!!'s and everything`
`09:39.58`	`timeless`	`suihkulokki, or someone else`
`09:40.00`	`timeless`	`could you please explain:`
`09:40.03`	`timeless`	`org.freedesktop.DBus.GLib.UnmappedError.BackgroundManagerErrorQuark.Code2`
`09:40.33`	`Stskeeps`	`timeless: star trek fans?`
`09:40.34`	`Stskeeps`	`:P`
`09:40.57`	`timeless`	`for people curious, this is from http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/search?string=CORRUPTED_TEXT`
`09:41.00`	`timeless`	`or there abouts`
`09:41.38`	`*** join/#maemo lbt_ (n=david@78.32.229.233)`
`09:42.34`	`timeless`	`i'll settle for "what in the world is a BackgroundManagerErrorQuark and how can i get one?"`
`09:43.36`	`*** join/#maemo pupnik (n=pupnik@pD95FDA7E.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`09:43.43`	`suihkulokki`	`no idea ;)`
`09:46.44`	`*** join/#maemo simon_ (n=simon@140.78.95.51)`
`09:48.20`	`*** join/#maemo florian_kc (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69)`
`09:53.06`	`*** join/#maemo bilboed-pi (n=bilboed@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net)`
`09:55.02`	`*** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@212.13.37.17)`
`09:55.50`	`timeless`	`hey`
`09:55.54`	`timeless`	`is osso-notes open source? :)`
`09:56.42`	`pupnik`	`morning`
`09:58.37`	`Stskeeps`	`timeless: don't think so`
`09:59.05`	`*** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@217.174.199.201)`
`10:01.07`	`*** join/#maemo robink (n=robink@fatcat.creosotehill.org)`
`10:02.35`	`timeless`	`ponders`
`10:02.39`	`timeless`	`we're at about bug 4050`
`10:02.47`	`timeless`	`should i try to file bug 5000 before fosdem? :)`
`10:03.05`	`timeless`	`(and yes, i'm pretty sure i could do it if i tried)`
`10:05.27`	`timeless`	`chuckles`
`10:05.29`	`timeless`	`this should be fun`
`10:05.36`	`timeless`	`anyone want to try to break notes? :)`
`10:05.50`	`timeless`	`oh, sorry, not notes, sketch`
`10:06.53`	`Stskeeps`	`that isn't particularly difficult to do :P`
`10:07.00`	`timeless`	`yeah, but you're not trying :)`
`10:07.11`	`Stskeeps`	`is a big fan of xournal or maemopad+ :P`
`10:07.24`	`*** join/#maemo aquatix_ (n=aquatix@62.41.246.172)`
`10:08.00`	`timeless`	`i think that if you have no disk space and 'background kill' sketch`
`10:08.07`	`timeless`	`you should get an 'amusing' error message`
`10:09.27`	`lcuk`	`"timeless: get your hand out of my ass" ?`
`10:10.18`	`lcuk`	`mornin :D`
`10:10.22`	`sandman2`	`How much longer will a VIA C7 last versus an OMAP 2420, on the same battery?`
`10:10.55`	`timeless`	`sandman2: i think 99% of the people you'll find deal w/ software`
`10:10.56`	`timeless`	`not hardware`
`10:11.06`	`*** join/#maemo L0cutus (n=L0cutus@host-84-223-127-74.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`10:11.23`	`lcuk`	`timeless, you are goin to fosdem arent you`
`10:11.29`	`timeless`	`yep`
`10:12.51`	`lcuk`	`oooh its a weekend, i didnt realise`
`10:12.57`	`timeless`	`yes, always`
`10:13.08`	`lcuk`	`heh not used to it`
`10:13.27`	`lcuk`	`the only 2 ive been two were weekdays`
`10:13.33`	`timeless`	`it isn't in my calendar, but i bought tickets and made arrangements for where to stay`
`10:13.45`	`timeless`	`those wouldn't have been fosdem... faiu`
`10:13.53`	`lcuk`	`no :)`
`10:14.14`	`lcuk`	`mind you, this time last year i had only just got my device`
`10:14.24`	`pupnik`	`and still no divorce`
`10:14.29`	`timeless`	`wow`
`10:14.31`	`lcuk`	`i think i had barely gotten past pythonn`
`10:14.48`	`Khertan_n810`	`<timeless> anyone want to try to break notes? :) <<< try mnotes 0.3.0-3`
`10:14.51`	`Khertan_n810`	`:)`
`10:15.12`	`timeless`	`khertan: hrm`
`10:15.23`	`Khertan_n810`	`hi :)`
`10:15.41`	`lcuk`	`timeless, wow at pupnik, or me`
`10:15.44`	`lcuk`	`hiya pupnik btw`
`10:15.45`	`timeless`	`you`
`10:15.46`	`lcuk`	`and khertan`
`10:15.56`	`timeless`	`khertan: is that in garage?`
`10:16.04`	`timeless`	`it wasn't in garage the last time i slurped it`
`10:16.20`	`lcuk`	`:)`
`10:16.29`	`Khertan_n810`	`hum... euh ... in garage ? the source is in svn ... and in maemo extras-devel`
`10:17.07`	`timeless`	`which svn repo?`
`10:17.21`	`Khertan_n810`	`https://garage.maemo.org/svn/mnotes`
`10:17.25`	`timeless`	`that's garage`
`10:17.46`	`lcuk`	`i think i would be more inclined to come to fosdem if i could get to a nice level. unfortunately im behind schedule`
`10:17.57`	`lcuk`	`will have to check (and scroll) his calendar`
`10:17.57`	`Khertan_n810`	`yep`
`10:18.29`	`timeless`	`hrm, most be relatively new`
`10:18.37`	`timeless`	`i only have 661 projects in garage`
`10:18.39`	`Khertan_n810`	`yep :)`
`10:18.42`	`timeless`	`and that isn't among them`
`10:18.51`	`Khertan_n810`	`i commit it this morning`
`10:19.28`	`timeless`	`any idea what project number garage is at?`
`10:19.38`	`Khertan_n810`	`yep i know also that not all my project is in garage yet`
`10:19.44`	`*** join/#maemo ezadkiel_mB (n=chatzill@bas1-cooksville17-1177948029.dsl.bell.ca)`
`10:20.01`	`Khertan_n810`	`mnotes ? #835`
`10:20.35`	`lcuk`	`is pleased only 1 of his projects is in garage.`
`10:20.54`	`lcuk`	`my mind would asplode if i put all of them there and had to manage them`
`10:21.07`	`Khertan_n810`	`hÃ©hÃ©`
`10:21.14`	`Khertan_n810`	`same things for me ...`
`10:21.31`	`Khertan_n810`	`but i ve test a script to automatically update to svn :)`
`10:21.38`	`Khertan_n810`	`my different project`
`10:24.15`	`lcuk`	`Khertan_n810, pm :)`
`10:25.25`	`Stskeeps`	`sandman2: omap2 can last for several days without a charge`
`10:25.29`	`timeless`	`khertan: well, my script defaulted to a ceiling of 800`
`10:25.35`	`timeless`	`so it wasn't going to automatically find 835 :)`
`10:25.47`	`timeless`	`waits as it runs through them`
`10:26.27`	`lcuk`	`vanishes again.`
`10:26.51`	`lcuk`	`ctrl-c's timelesses sccript before he goes`
`10:27.08`	`timeless`	`lcuk: too late :)`
`10:27.16`	`timeless`	`timeless@swift:/home/svn/world-all/garage% ps\|wc -l`
`10:27.16`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`10:27.23`	`timeless`	`those are all attacking garage svn :)`
`10:28.21`	`X-Fade`	`timeless: top - 12:28:08 up 138 days, 5:02, 1 user, load average: 9.38, 8.32, 4.93`
`10:28.30`	`timeless`	`Total: 180 processes, 375 lwps, load averages: 0.73, 0.47, 0.28`
`10:28.41`	`X-Fade`	`timeless: Yes, but that was garage ;)`
`10:28.41`	`timeless`	`what the heck are you doing to that box?`
`10:28.47`	`timeless`	`oh`
`10:28.55`	`timeless`	`ok, so that's me :)`
`10:28.58`	`timeless`	`is so proud of swift`
`10:29.38`	`timeless`	`down to 48, 47`
`10:29.55`	`tekojo`	`timeless: so swift is back?`
`10:30.12`	`timeless`	`well, kinda. working on it`
`10:30.19`	`timeless`	`it's answering limited questions internally`
`10:30.27`	`timeless`	`i need to figure out what i was supposed to do to index the sdk`
`10:30.35`	`timeless`	`i slurped the sdk .deb's on friday or so`
`10:30.44`	`timeless`	`so i can point it at the local copy (if i can find that!)`
`10:30.53`	`tekojo`	`ok, sounds pretty good :-)`
`10:31.10`	`*** join/#maemo Jucato (n=Jucato@ubuntu/member/Jucato)`
`10:31.34`	`timeless`	`grumbles`
`10:31.39`	`timeless`	`i think i need to be root or something`
`10:31.53`	`Stskeeps`	`notes to himself zip -r0D isn't the same as -r9D`
`10:32.27`	`*** join/#maemo zap (n=zap@mail.cobra.ru)`
`10:32.47`	`*** join/#maemo beavis (n=mk@p5B0456A6.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`10:34.53`	`Jucato`	`shyly waves.. new n810 user`
`10:35.12`	`timeless`	`welcome, have you upgraded to the latest os?`
`10:35.20`	`Jucato`	`yep`
`10:35.34`	`Jucato`	`5.2008.43-7?`
`10:35.42`	`Stskeeps`	`correct`
`10:35.59`	`timeless`	`shrugs`
`10:36.03`	`timeless`	`it sounded like a good question ;-)`
`10:36.16`	`Jucato`	`thanks :)`
`10:36.36`	`Jucato`	`I had a bit of guidance in the beginning from a fellow n810 user :)`
`10:37.07`	`timeless`	`timeless@swift:/home/svn/world-all/garage% jobs\|wc -l`
`10:37.08`	`timeless`	`<PROTECTED>`
`10:37.14`	`timeless`	`the garage attack should be nearly over :)`
`10:37.28`	`timeless`	`kicks khertan`
`10:37.52`	`timeless`	`khertan: could i possibly interest you in a saner file system structure?`
`10:37.57`	`Jucato`	`I have a quick question (although I already have a feeling that the answer is "no"...): I know I can use Yahoo!Messenger using Pidgin. but is there a way to integrate my yahoo account/contacts with maemo?`
`10:38.04`	`timeless`	`one which doesn't litter the root of your tree w/ binary files?`
`10:38.29`	`timeless`	`jucato: google talk contacts are imported in maemo`
`10:38.36`	`timeless`	`so the theoretical answer should be 'yes'`
`10:39.01`	`timeless`	`from a 'what can you do out of the box', i wouldn't know`
`10:39.07`	`timeless`	`happily doesn't use ymail`
`10:39.08`	`Jucato`	`hm...`
`10:39.16`	`Jucato`	`I don't use the mail either :)`
`10:39.31`	`Jucato`	`but the messenger is the standard in this country (unfortunately...)`
`10:39.33`	`timeless`	`is too old for yim`
`10:39.35`	`timeless`	`aim :)`
`10:39.46`	`timeless`	`(and icq)`
`10:40.10`	`Passeli`	`i am trying to get Scratchbox Remote Shell to work, and keep getting following error:`
`10:40.12`	`X-Fade`	`Jucato: http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/`
`10:40.13`	`Passeli`	`sbrsh server: Can't change root directory to: /var/sbrshd/username@192.168.2.14/sshfs-target (No such file or directory)`
`10:41.12`	`Jucato`	`X-Fade: thanks! I'll take a look into it`
`10:41.34`	`X-Fade`	`Jucato: Using telepathy-haze, you should be able to do just that.`
`10:41.41`	`Jucato`	`awesome :)`
`10:42.53`	`Jucato`	`oh.. red pill mode... sounds ominous :)`
`10:47.12`	`*** join/#maemo booiiing (n=[booiiin@e180035069.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`10:49.19`	`timeless`	`andre__/et al, i'd like to create an mnotes component in bugs:extras`
`10:49.26`	`timeless`	`Khertan_n810: =)`
`10:49.35`	`timeless`	`this way i can file bugs against khertan :)`
`10:50.02`	`timeless`	`really needs to write a script for that`
`10:50.18`	`andre__`	`timeless, just do it (creating the component, but the script part also sounds nice) ;-)`
`10:50.57`	`timeless`	`andre__: btw, are there any discontinued products that will see development? :)`
`10:51.06`	`timeless`	`(read teh classification description for x-graveyard)`
`10:52.06`	`andre__`	`probably not. but redundancy might be helpful for the average eye ;-)`
`10:52.15`	`timeless`	`better punctuation would be better`
`10:52.18`	`timeless`	`also`
`10:52.26`	`timeless`	`suppose there's a nokia project which isn't maemo official`
`10:52.31`	`timeless`	`where does it live? :)`
`10:53.13`	`timeless`	`(assume it's in extras)`
`10:53.17`	`andre__`	`shrug. i can think about that when it exists`
`10:55.14`	`andre__`	`i wonder whether internet tablet video converter belongs to that category`
`10:55.32`	`timeless`	`yes`
`10:57.00`	`timeless`	`ok, i'm in a giving mood`
`10:57.15`	`timeless`	`anyone want to name 3-5 projects that are vaguely active in garage which could use products?`
`10:57.20`	`timeless`	`speak now, or wait a month`
`11:00.00`	`keesj`	`could use products?`
`11:00.46`	`Jaffa`	`wazd: have you made any changes? I switched it to using a table full stop, rather than the wiki syntax. Still got some bugs but they should be easy to track down`
`11:01.05`	`timeless`	`keesj: https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?classification=Extras`
`11:01.21`	`timeless`	`if you know of a garage thing that could use repesentation, you have 20mins`
`11:02.13`	`Jaffa`	`wazd: might be better to switch to a full CSS-based, rather than tables`
`11:05.10`	`Khertan_n810`	`re`
`11:05.22`	`Khertan_n810`	`timeless: sorry was busy`
`11:05.30`	`timeless`	`khertan: enjoy, now you have your own product`
`11:05.53`	`timeless`	`khertan: you should visit https://bugs.maemo.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email`
`11:06.01`	`timeless`	`in users to watch:`
`11:06.06`	`timeless`	`add the qa contacts from your product`
`11:06.15`	`timeless`	`https://bugs.maemo.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=mNotes`
`11:06.27`	`timeless`	`ok?`
`11:06.58`	`Khertan_n810`	`what is the prob ?`
`11:07.14`	`timeless`	`if you don't do that, you won't find out about bugs people report :)`
`11:08.03`	`*** join/#maemo frade (n=ivan@esprx02x.nokia.com)`
`11:10.06`	`timeless`	`jaffa: ok, i'm attacking garage again`
`11:10.22`	`timeless`	`Total: 1570 processes, 1765 lwps, load averages: 32.10, 7.56, 2.64`
`11:10.51`	`*** join/#maemo Khertan (n=khertan@nax2.naxos-fr.net)`
`11:10.52`	`Khertan`	`re`
`11:11.01`	`Khertan`	`sorry ... i come back with a better client`
`11:11.10`	`Khertan`	`at least not a web one`
`11:11.21`	`Khertan`	`*** Notice -- This gateway is temporarily blocked due to abuse. Apologies for the inconvenience!`
`11:11.44`	`Khertan`	`timeless : could you repeat after : "<timeless> in users to watch:"`
`11:11.46`	`Khertan`	`?`
`11:11.47`	`Khertan`	`:)`
`11:12.01`	`timeless`	`add the qa contacts from your product`
`11:12.04`	`timeless`	`https://bugs.maemo.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=mNotes`
`11:12.09`	`timeless`	`ok?`
`11:12.13`	`timeless`	`if you don't do that, you won't find out about bugs people report :)`
`11:13.14`	`Khertan`	`hum`
`11:14.07`	`*** join/#maemo caio1982 (i=caio1982@CAcert-br/caio1982)`
`11:14.17`	`Khertan_n810`	`notes component ?`
`11:14.17`	`Khertan_n810`	`ping ?`
`11:14.17`	`Khertan_n810`	`ping !`
`11:14.24`	`Khertan`	`lol`
`11:14.24`	`timeless`	`um`
`11:14.30`	`Khertan`	`stupid web client`
`11:14.31`	`timeless`	`is that lag?`
`11:14.34`	`Khertan`	`yep`
`11:14.39`	`timeless`	`nice`
`11:14.42`	`Khertan`	`yep`
`11:16.20`	`*** join/#maemo mypapit (n=mhafiz@240.47.50.60.kmr04-home.tm.net.my)`
`11:17.01`	`timeless`	`376 or so updates running atm :)`
`11:17.08`	`timeless`	`a couple flies dropping every few moments`
`11:19.32`	`timeless`	`hrm, swift is too busy to talk to me :(`
`11:21.08`	`*** join/#maemo rzr (n=RzR@lav35-1-82-236-136-171.fbx.proxad.net)`
`11:22.17`	`timeless`	`frowns`
`11:22.18`	`timeless`	`ok`
`11:22.20`	`timeless`	`you're in a file picker`
`11:22.28`	`timeless`	`and the folder you're looking at disappeared`
`11:22.34`	`timeless`	`the file picker wants to tell you this`
`11:22.40`	`timeless`	`what should it say?`
`11:23.25`	`aquat1x`	`omgwtfdisappearingfolders!'
`11:23.30`	`aquat1x`	`(sorry)`
`11:23.34`	`timeless`	`it's ok`
`11:23.40`	`timeless`	`we have similar text in the product`
`11:23.43`	`timeless`	`(diablo)`
`11:23.44`	`aquat1x`	`haha`
`11:23.59`	`aquat1x`	`The selected folder does not exist anymore' ?
`11:24.12`	`timeless`	`that sounds vaguely useful`
`11:24.20`	`timeless`	`the current text iirc`
`11:24.23`	`timeless`	`is something like:`
`11:24.26`	`timeless`	`folder not found.`
`11:24.30`	`timeless`	`device switched to another folder.`
`11:24.31`	`timeless`	`--`
`11:24.37`	`timeless`	`don't ask me what a device is`
`11:24.41`	`timeless`	`i'd have to check the manual`
`11:24.57`	`aquat1x`	`ah`
`11:25.01`	`timeless`	`(to everyone else, if i have to look it up, that means it's an awful choice of words)`
`11:25.06`	`aquat1x`	`well, the device you're holding`
`11:25.19`	`aquat1x`	`The selected folder does not exist anymore, switched to another folder' ?
`11:25.24`	`aquat1x`	`The selected folder does not exist anymore, switched to another folder instead' ?
`11:25.28`	`aquat1x`	`but that's long`
`11:25.37`	`timeless`	`when was the last time your ipod/iphone talked about itself as a 'device'? :)`
`11:26.07`	`Stskeeps`	`'s gf calls his tablet "your device"`
`11:26.07`	`Stskeeps`	`:P`
`11:26.08`	`*** join/#maemo kleist (n=kleist@p54BCC1B0.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`11:26.26`	`timeless`	`affectionately or as a curse?`
`11:26.33`	`aquat1x`	`:)`
`11:26.37`	`timeless`	`"your [bleeping] device is distracting you from me"`
`11:26.37`	`Stskeeps`	`affectionately or neutral`
`11:26.46`	`timeless`	`"how dare you spend so much time with your device"`
`11:26.58`	`Khertan`	`timeless i don't understand how to change the email on bug`
`11:27.05`	`timeless`	`khertan: err`
`11:27.06`	`aquat1x`	`My device is better than yours'
`11:27.11`	`Stskeeps`	`timeless: it usually helps in arguments she has various addictions to tv series`
`11:27.12`	`benson`	`I refer to most of my devices as devices.`
`11:27.29`	`benson`	`Tablets, laptops, phones, etc.`
`11:27.42`	`timeless`	`khertan: what are you trying to do?`
`11:27.48`	`timeless`	`did you visit user prefs?`
`11:28.02`	`Stskeeps`	`you know, one thing, why the f*k doesn't /sys have device nodes in it?`
`11:28.13`	`Stskeeps`	`i mean, it has the references, but actual device nodes could be useful`
`11:28.18`	`timeless`	`"Current folder disappeared.\n"`
`11:28.18`	`timeless`	`"Switching to another folder."`
`11:28.20`	`timeless`	`?`
`11:28.31`	`timeless`	`or Switched`
`11:28.54`	`timeless`	`"Selected another folder."`
`11:30.01`	`timeless`	`http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/hildon-application-manager-2.1.16/src/util.cc?mark=2778-2779#2760`
`11:30.07`	`timeless`	`2778 annoy_user (dgettext ("hildon-common-strings",`
`11:30.07`	`timeless`	`2779 "sfil_ni_cannot_open_no_connection"),`
`11:30.07`	`timeless`	`2780 fail_copy_cont, NULL);`
`11:30.12`	`Khertan`	`2. note that mNotes won't work well w/ Mer`
`11:30.12`	`Khertan`	`because it assumes /home/user. which I believe Mer wants to get away from`
`11:30.12`	`Khertan`	`you should get the user's home directory some other way`
`11:30.24`	`Khertan`	`hum ... yep ... all my apps work like that`
`11:31.08`	`lardman`	`morning all`
`11:31.44`	`Khertan`	`timeless ... why do you want to downgrade ?`
`11:31.51`	`timeless`	`just to annoy you :)`
`11:32.05`	`timeless`	`i don't intend to install the software atm`
`11:32.07`	`Khertan`	`lol but yep ... this could be a problem`
`11:32.14`	`timeless`	`but it's fun to read code and point out problems`
`11:32.14`	`lardman`	`Stskeeps: ping`
`11:32.32`	`Khertan`	`'your db update code is cute' thx ... but i found it not really good`
`11:32.59`	`Khertan`	`Also note that you have the same sort of code in mnotes_framework as make, this`
`11:32.59`	`Khertan`	`probably indicates you should have a module :)`
`11:33.02`	`Khertan`	`true too :)`
`11:34.38`	`Stskeeps`	`lardman: pong, snapshot in 5`
`11:34.46`	`lardman`	`Stskeeps: good stuff :)`
`11:35.20`	`lardman`	`Stskeeps: I was really going to ask if you'd thought of an online repo, then various people can submit updates packages, etc., in the same way extras works`
`11:35.54`	`Stskeeps`	`lardman: yeah, we're going to have that more visible when we move on to maemo.org (when i write an email outlining what is needed..)`
`11:36.02`	`Stskeeps`	`lardman: and a small bunch of people have upload rights`
`11:36.06`	`Stskeeps`	`already, so`
`11:36.08`	`lardman`	`yep`
`11:36.11`	`lardman`	`ok`
`11:36.14`	`Khertan`	`timeless : maybe it s fun ... but it s still help :)`
`11:36.17`	`timeless`	`lardma: what is this?`
`11:36.25`	`timeless`	`khertan: =)`
`11:36.26`	`lardman`	`timeless: Mer`
`11:36.39`	`Stskeeps`	`lardman: re-run installer, when it asks for mirror, use URL=http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-armel-n800-image-snap4.tar.gz`
`11:36.39`	`Khertan`	`timeless: but one question why created a product in bugs.maemo.org`
`11:36.45`	`Khertan`	`it should be in garage no ?`
`11:36.48`	`timeless`	`no`
`11:36.52`	`timeless`	`garage is dead for bug tracking`
`11:36.55`	`lcuk`	`lardman, havent you just recreated the maemo repository`
`11:36.55`	`Khertan`	`ah`
`11:37.04`	`lardman`	`Stskeeps: Will do this arvo, had to swap cards back so I can listen to mp3s at work`
`11:37.07`	`timeless`	`if you have a thing in garage, please kill it`
`11:37.20`	`*** join/#maemo solmumaha (n=solmis@mikkeli.wsoy.fi)`
`11:37.23`	`Khertan`	`:) all my other products have bug tracking in garage`
`11:37.23`	`Stskeeps`	`lardman: and you don't have to re-run refresh_bootmenu.d, just re-run installer :)`
`11:37.24`	`Khertan`	`:)`
`11:37.24`	`timeless`	`i'm going to slowly whack the rest of garage's bug tracker`
`11:37.28`	`*** join/#maemo frade (n=ivan@esprx02x.nokia.com)`
`11:37.32`	`lardman`	`Stskeeps: can I download and use file:/// syntax for that url?`
`11:37.40`	`timeless`	`khertan: poke me in a few hours, and i'll fix that`
`11:37.40`	`Stskeeps`	`lardman: whatever wget takes`
`11:37.54`	`lardman`	`lcuk: pretty much, but for the community stuff`
`11:38.06`	`Stskeeps`	`lardman: you can also mkfs.ext3 the partition yourself, tar pzxvf the file and passwd root`
`11:38.10`	`Stskeeps`	`same effect`
`11:38.11`	`Stskeeps`	`:P`
`11:38.16`	`lardman`	`lcuk: I was thinking of using the same infrastructure actually, just add a new dir`
`11:38.16`	`timeless`	`anyway, gotta go`
`11:38.24`	`Khertan`	`i should be tired i can browse the product list in bugzilla`
`11:38.39`	`lcuk`	`yeah lardman, os2007 os2008 mer fremantle`
`11:38.48`	`lcuk`	`*m5`
`11:38.57`	`lardman`	`yep`
`11:39.28`	`lardman`	`but I'm just a meddling outsider atm, making annoying suggestions ;)`
`11:39.33`	`lcuk`	`eats a big blt`
`11:39.46`	`lardman`	`though as I'm trying to setup, I'd like it to be easy for people to get into it, etc`
`11:40.05`	`lcuk`	`lardman :) ease of use is primary to uptake`
`11:40.18`	`lardman`	`Stskeeps: that image is n800, any major diff between that an n810?`
`11:40.20`	`lcuk`	`the simpler it is to get involved the better :)`
`11:40.26`	`*** join/#maemo ezadkiel_mB (n=chatzill@bas1-cooksville17-1279271107.dsl.bell.ca)`
`11:40.27`	`lardman`	`+1`
`11:40.28`	`Stskeeps`	`lardman: mistake on my part, it's n8x0`
`11:40.33`	`lardman`	`cool`
`11:40.34`	`RST38h`	`moo, lardman-lcuk-Khertan-Sts-all`
`11:40.38`	`Stskeeps`	`moo RST38h`
`11:40.45`	`lardman`	`moo too`
`11:40.47`	`lcuk`	`oink!`
`11:40.54`	`lardman`	`mmm, bacon`
`11:41.04`	`lcuk`	`(well i couldnt use anything else could i :D)`
`11:41.09`	`lcuk`	`might have a pig as mascot`
`11:42.12`	`lcuk`	`i walked through a number of scenarios and ideas last night`
`11:42.49`	`Stskeeps`	`pink floyd base?`
`11:42.52`	`lcuk`	`is pleased with his conclusions, i just wish i could code fast enough to realize them in time for fosdem`
`11:43.03`	`lardman`	`you going?`
`11:43.22`	`lcuk`	`no, i wont have anything to show`
`11:43.48`	`lcuk`	`its a shame, i wanted to meet ssvb and timeless is gonna be there (i could grab a 770) and quim and stuff :)`
`11:43.55`	`Khertan`	`hate bugzilla`
`11:44.05`	`lcuk`	`but i would prefer to have the new stuff to show and tell :)`
`11:44.13`	`*** join/#maemo ignacius (n=ignacius@5.Red-88-9-189.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)`
`11:44.48`	`lcuk`	`maybe though i can discuss the backend library`
`11:44.51`	`lcuk`	`thats feasible`
`11:45.21`	`lcuk`	`curses not having time`
`11:45.25`	`lcuk`	`wishes he was timeless`
`11:45.38`	`Stskeeps`	`are you completely sure about that?`
`11:45.38`	`Stskeeps`	`:P`
`11:46.14`	`lcuk`	`yeah you are probably right, i would spend my days trying to break stuff (best way to be actually, assume failure by default is best way to get secure apps)`
`11:46.46`	`lcuk`	`timeless, did you used to use a magnifying glass on bugs when you were younger (or even yesterday?)`
`11:46.53`	`Khertan`	`how can i change the Default QA Contact for a product ?`
`11:48.27`	`Khertan`	`is going to eat`
`11:51.18`	`*** join/#maemo kleist_ (n=kleist@p54BCBDBA.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`11:56.11`	`*** join/#maemo smyows (n=smyows@200.206.88.188)`
`11:56.29`	`*** part/#maemo LinuxHack3r (n=matt@68-114-163-167.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com)`
`11:59.27`	`*** join/#maemo luogni (n=luogni@host57-218-static.90-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it)`
`12:01.17`	`rmrfchik`	`hmm, what is OMAP3 device for which maemo5 is targeted?`
`12:01.39`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com)`
`12:01.49`	`Stskeeps`	`rmrfchik: unknown device as of yet (RX-51)`
`12:02.18`	`rmrfchik`	`sad, n810 is not target for maemo :(`
`12:02.25`	`Stskeeps`	`that's what Mer is for :P`
`12:02.26`	`rmrfchik`	`maemo5 i mean`
`12:02.31`	`Stskeeps`	`bringing fremantle components to n810`
`12:02.45`	`*** join/#maemo LinuxHack3r (n=matt@68-114-163-167.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com)`
`12:02.49`	`rmrfchik`	`will smth be losed?`
`12:03.11`	`LinuxHack3r`	`So...the items in the "menu"...some I like...some I don't. I don't really want some of them...is there a way to remove them?`
`12:04.55`	`*** join/#maemo johnx (n=john@h219-110-157-005.catv02.itscom.jp)`
`12:06.40`	`LinuxHack3r`	`rmrfchik: Yes...Will Smith lost?`
`12:07.23`	`*** join/#maemo fr01b (n=jex_o_je@212.30.2.18)`
`12:09.24`	`*** join/#maemo Zic (n=zic@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.zic)`
`12:09.27`	`Stskeeps`	`rmrfchik: good question :P what do you use?`
`12:12.37`	`LinuxHack3r`	`Stskeeps: Do you know how to remove menu entries? Is it even possible?`
`12:12.45`	`Stskeeps`	`LinuxHack3r: there's a control panel thing`
`12:13.03`	`LinuxHack3r`	`Stskeeps: ALL I can do Is move things around....cannot remove them?`
`12:13.10`	`Stskeeps`	`LinuxHack3r: good question`
`12:13.11`	`Stskeeps`	`brb`
`12:13.47`	`*** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69)`
`12:14.06`	`*** join/#maemo florian_kc (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69)`
`12:16.26`	`*** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein)`
`12:18.58`	`johnx`	`LinuxHack3r: only way is to remove the app or delete its .desktop entry`
`12:19.11`	`Jucato`	`waves at Sho_`
`12:19.23`	`Stskeeps`	`morning johnx`
`12:19.28`	`johnx`	`hey`
`12:20.19`	`johnx`	`is there anything besides ssh-server where we want the configure stage to run on the user's tabler?`
`12:20.25`	`Khertan`	`or move it to an unexisting category`
`12:20.45`	`*** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@200.184.118.130)`
`12:20.47`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: can't think of any atm`
`12:20.48`	`Khertan`	`but with a SuP3rH4x0r name you should know how to do that ?`
`12:20.57`	`Sho_`	`waves at Jucato`
`12:22.12`	`*** join/#maemo AndrewFBlack (n=Andrew@233-203.dothan.cable.graceba.net)`
`12:23.07`	`LinuxHack3r`	`johnx: Where is the .desktop entry? I can just move it to a "backup" location, can't i?`
`12:23.22`	`*** join/#maemo luck^ (n=Luciano@200.184.118.130)`
`12:23.34`	`johnx`	`LinuxHack3r: /usr/share/applications/hildon`
`12:23.48`	`johnx`	`yeah,making a backup is a good idea`
`12:24.10`	`johnx`	`dont remember if you need to do something to regen the menu after...hmmm`
`12:24.24`	`johnx`	`Stskeeps: also, i was thinking about some kind of way to handle machine features`
`12:24.29`	`LinuxHack3r`	`perhaps an on and off will work ;)`
`12:24.58`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: well, imager can add config if need be`
`12:25.02`	`*** join/#maemo ijon_ (n=ijon@dhcp218-262.yandex.ru)`
`12:26.10`	`johnx`	`Stskeeps: I suppose yeah...but what about a script that needs to act differently at runtime (thinking about mouse pointer on non-touch screen)`
`12:26.30`	`johnx`	`or h-i-m on devices with keyboards`
`12:27.09`	`Stskeeps`	`mm`
`12:27.22`	`johnx`	`dur...I guess HAL would be the right way. i never think of tthings like that til i type my question`
`12:27.26`	`Stskeeps`	`lshal?`
`12:27.38`	`johnx`	`right :)`
`12:27.39`	`*** join/#maemo MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@200.184.118.130)`
`12:28.04`	`Stskeeps`	`scan for touchscreen maybe :P`
`12:28.41`	`johnx`	`yeah. i just remebered hal but totally forgot about lshal`
`12:30.03`	`*** part/#maemo LinuxHack3r (n=matt@68-114-163-167.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com)`
`12:31.35`	`*** join/#maemo crashanddie (n=c336e713@67.159.35.76)`
`12:31.53`	`lcuk`	`afternoon crashanddie :)`
`12:32.01`	`*** join/#maemo wazd (n=wazd@gwh-1-22-val21.ln.rinet.ru)`
`12:33.43`	`Stskeeps`	`lo wazd`
`12:34.16`	`wazd`	`Back :)`
`12:34.43`	`johnx`	`hey wazd :)`
`12:35.12`	`wazd`	`Jaffa: I really don't get where's the bug :( I checked the code 10000 times - it looks fine for me :(`
`12:35.39`	`lardman`	`wazd: I know that feeling`
`12:36.10`	`wazd`	`And why the hell Wiki does not support background image for table or div`
`12:36.32`	`wazd`	`It's almost lmposible to do scalable design without htat function`
`12:36.50`	`Jaffa`	`wazd: Because 9i'd allow spamming or whatever`
`12:36.57`	`Stskeeps`	`<PROTECTED>`
`12:37.06`	`timelE61i`	`.`
`12:37.26`	`Jaffa`	`wazd: it's now using a table and has a different bug ;-)`
`12:38.22`	`Stskeeps`	`hmm, does extras accept packages which has non-build dependancies that cannot be satisfied?`
`12:39.01`	`X-Fade`	`Stskeeps: Nope.`
`12:39.08`	`X-Fade`	`Those need to be uploaded first.`
`12:39.13`	`Stskeeps`	`X-Fade: mmk`
`12:39.29`	`Stskeeps`	`X-Fade: so if my final package depends on something, it checks if it's possible to satisfy?`
`12:40.43`	`X-Fade`	`Stskeeps: It checks build-depends and dependencies..`
`12:40.44`	`Stskeeps`	`k`
`12:40.51`	`Stskeeps`	`well then, need to put bootmenu in extras :)`
`12:41.13`	`X-Fade`	`Stskeeps: At least in extras-devel. ;)`
`12:41.17`	`Stskeeps`	`yeah, -devel :P`
`12:41.22`	`Stskeeps`	`wonders how much havoc that will cause`
`12:41.55`	`X-Fade`	`Well, as long as you don't promote it to Extras yet, you should be safe.`
`12:42.19`	`*** join/#maemo Kathrin-25^away (n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch)`
`12:43.10`	`johnx`	`Stskeeps: then we just need to push mer as an ssu and ... :D`
`12:43.31`	`Stskeeps`	`hehe`
`12:43.54`	`*** join/#maemo setanta (n=setanta@200.184.118.130)`
`12:46.35`	`rmrfchik`	`sry, was afk`
`12:46.37`	`wazd`	`whoa, something has changed :)`
`12:46.56`	`rmrfchik`	`Stskeeps: I mean, will any new good features be lost?`
`12:47.12`	`Stskeeps`	`rmrfchik: well, depends on what we can make work and what nokia allows us to distribute`
`12:47.16`	`rmrfchik`	`for now I use mapper, fbreader, music player`
`12:47.28`	`Stskeeps`	`first two should be fine, media player or music player?`
`12:49.19`	`johnx`	`gah, pouring rain here. :/ that's what i get for not leaving work early`
`12:49.41`	`rmrfchik`	`Stskeeps: canola2`
`12:49.49`	`Stskeeps`	`rmrfchik: it'll hopefully be OSS soon`
`12:50.16`	`johnx`	`yeah, really looking forward to an open source canola`
`12:50.37`	`wazd`	`who's doing something with my sandbox?)`
`12:51.07`	`rmrfchik`	`builtin media player is totally useless for me. it cant' plays music from card.`
`12:51.37`	`rmrfchik`	`and I eager to see keepassx on my n810`
`12:53.28`	`*** join/#maemo mypapit_fakaped (n=mhafiz@59.33.50.60.kmr04-home.tm.net.my)`
`12:55.40`	`Stskeeps`	`https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/keepassx/0.3.4-1/+build/787025`
`12:56.01`	`Stskeeps`	`looks quite big with QT though`
`12:57.17`	`timeless`	`khertan?`
`12:57.27`	`timeless`	`you only need to fill yourself in as the assignee`
`12:57.34`	`timeless`	`you should really leave the qa contact in its default value`
`12:58.12`	`Jaffa`	`wazd: I suggest you throw away uthe images for the corners and uise -moz-border-radisu, -webkit-border-radius and border-radius; then you've got 1 image for the logo, one image for each of the buttons`
`12:59.48`	`lardman`	`rmrfchik: can't play music from card? What do you mean?`
`13:00.28`	`wazd`	`Jaffa: does this stuff works with IE?`
`13:01.48`	`wazd`	`Yahoo! http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Wazd/Sandbox/Mer`
`13:02.14`	`Stskeeps`	`why the black background btw?`
`13:02.20`	`johnx`	`so, any bets on how long a native build of qt4.5 will take? I'll be trying a build of it on my n800 later`
`13:02.22`	`wazd`	`That was tough experience))`
`13:02.30`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: why? :P`
`13:02.37`	`Stskeeps`	`isn't it in ports ubuntu? :P`
`13:03.08`	`RST38h`	`johnx: the LHC will get there first, most likely`
`13:03.20`	`wazd`	`Stskeeps: cause black text on black background is cool xD`
`13:03.33`	`Stskeeps`	`wazd: yeah but mixed with the rest of wiki page..`
`13:03.48`	`*** join/#maemo Jake42-2 (n=veroula@ppp-94-69-62-213.home.otenet.gr)`
`13:03.52`	`johnx`	`Stskeeps: i thought qt for maemo had some tweaks to auto-hildonize stuff`
`13:03.54`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk)`
`13:03.58`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: true`
`13:04.00`	`wazd`	`who cares bout rest of wiki page :)`
`13:04.06`	`Stskeeps`	`qwerty12: i know why nit-kernelcompat fails to boot`
`13:04.12`	`Stskeeps`	`qwerty12: lack of mtdblock0 etc in /dev`
`13:04.16`	`wazd`	`And this stuff actually isn't finished yet`
`13:04.19`	`qwerty12`	`Stskeeps, wtf`
`13:04.34`	`Stskeeps`	`qwerty12: remember this time its before udev`
`13:04.50`	`johnx`	`anyways, headed home :) back in an hour or so`
`13:05.08`	`qwerty12`	`Stskeeps, hrm, I'll try and get a /dev dump or somewhat`
`13:05.36`	`Stskeeps`	`qwerty12: or i can just MAKEDEV as part of imaging process`
`13:05.50`	`qwerty12`	`worksforme :)`
`13:07.09`	`*** join/#maemo Ryback_ (n=ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback)`
`13:13.28`	`*** join/#maemo mypapit (n=mhafiz@59.33.50.60.kmr04-home.tm.net.my)`
`13:13.32`	`*** join/#maemo vobiscum (n=daniel@200.222.15.16)`
`13:14.36`	`Stskeeps`	`qwerty12: which mtdblock is it we use?`
`13:14.56`	`qwerty12`	`mtdblock4`
`13:14.56`	`Stskeeps`	`k`
`13:17.57`	`*** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A15766.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`13:20.53`	`Jaffa`	`wazd: no, in IE6/7 you wouldn't get curved corners. Don't tell me you're one of those designers where it has top be pixel perfect for everyone? Remember that alpha-transparent PNGs need to be used anyway, so that it doesn't look really crap when the new maemo.org look comes in`
`13:22.01`	`wazd`	`Jaffa: it was a real surprise that maemo.org doesn't have IE png patches enabled btw :)`
`13:23.19`	`Stskeeps`	`qwerty12: can you grab me major,minor of the mtdblock devices?`
`13:24.13`	`*** join/#maemo aquatix (n=aquatix@higgs.soleus.nu)`
`13:24.18`	`qwerty12`	`Stskeeps, http://pastebin.com/d316f858f`
`13:24.39`	`Stskeeps`	`ta`
`13:25.22`	`wazd`	`Jaffa: there are more sophisticated problems right now :) Like "how to align menu to the center" :)`
`13:25.25`	`*** join/#maemo web-irc-test (n=c32f6f66@67.159.35.76)`
`13:26.46`	`rmrfchik`	`lardman: it doesn't see my mp3 files.`
`13:27.00`	`rmrfchik`	`lardman: and it hasn't UI to open files from file system`
`13:27.11`	`Jaffa`	`wazd: specify the width of the containing div/ul exactly and then use margin-left and margin-right: auto.`
`13:27.28`	`Jaffa`	`dneary: I've just responded to Jarmo's email. Something to add to the agenda at 1400?`
`13:27.30`	`wazd`	`Jaffa: oh)`
`13:27.52`	`lardman`	`rmrfchik: works for me`
`13:27.56`	`X-Fade`	`Jaffa: No, it is a topic for -developers.`
`13:28.12`	`lardman`	`rmrfchik: menu > clip > open ??`
`13:28.16`	`dneary`	`Jaffa: Just catching up with email, haven't read it yet`
`13:28.28`	`rmrfchik`	`lardman: it is for open one clip, isn't?`
`13:28.37`	`X-Fade`	`Jaffa: We really need to see quite some interest to even warrant the effort of implementing that ;)`
`13:28.56`	`Jaffa`	`X-Fade: Isn't Jarmo in charge of maemo.nokia.com?`
`13:29.00`	`X-Fade`	`Jaffa: This testing is hardcore testing, which I haven't seen in _any_ community project yet ;)`
`13:29.05`	`lardman`	`rmrfchik: yes that is, but the media crawler should just add them to its list`
`13:29.18`	`lardman`	`rmrfchik: eject the card then re-insert and it should do it's job`
`13:29.18`	`rmrfchik`	`it doesn't`
`13:29.18`	`Jaffa`	`X-Fade: No, I didn't mean the testing one (although that was a surprise to me, must've missed some earlier emails)`
`13:29.26`	`*** join/#maemo test_016 (n=5189c2d8@chathostplus.com)`
`13:29.31`	`lardman`	`rmrfchik: you didn't disable it did you?`
`13:29.32`	`rmrfchik`	`and what is it -- media crawler? where can I find it?`
`13:29.36`	`test_016`	`1 2 3 testing testing`
`13:29.36`	`lardman`	`built-in`
`13:29.37`	`X-Fade`	`Jaffa: No, he's working in the DP team. He's responsible for SDK and documentation IIRC.`
`13:29.37`	`rmrfchik`	`dunno. how to check?`
`13:29.41`	`Jaffa`	`X-Fade: I mean his -community one about maemo.org having to deal with developers who want to get reference documentation and/or SDKs`
`13:29.42`	`test_016`	`is this on?`
`13:29.45`	`lardman`	`if you don't know then it should be ok`
`13:29.48`	`Stskeeps`	`test_016: sortof`
`13:29.49`	`Jaffa`	`X-Fade: Ah, that's less of a panic then :-)`
`13:29.58`	`test_016`	`ahhh yes, i see jaffa and lardman`
`13:30.07`	`test_016`	`and you stskeeps`
`13:30.12`	`wazd`	`Jaffa: whoa, works, thanks!)`
`13:30.13`	`X-Fade`	`Jaffa: I'm all for setting this up if there is an actual need for it.`
`13:30.21`	`*** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@87.84-49-132.nextgentel.com)`
`13:30.37`	`X-Fade`	`Jaffa: But I seriously doubt that anybody will use it..`
`13:30.52`	`lardman`	`rmrfchik: not ideal, it would be good to have a manual re-scan option, etc, but that's it for the time being`
`13:31.09`	`test_016`	`ok, done testing now.`
`13:31.10`	`*** join/#maemo housetier (n=housetie@unaffiliated/housetier)`
`13:31.16`	`X-Fade`	`Jaffa: Not saying it isn't a cool thing, but ... :)`
`13:31.18`	`lardman`	`rmrfchik: add bugs/enhancement requests and hopefully it'll get better next time round :)`
`13:31.19`	`*** join/#maemo test_509 (n=5189c2d8@chathostplus.com)`
`13:31.20`	`Stskeeps`	`OT, any of you know a wi-fi PCI card that works as AP under linux?`
`13:31.45`	`test_509`	`i was meant to be done, does anyone knowwhere penguinbait got this chat thingy from?`
`13:32.12`	`Stskeeps`	`chathostplus seems like a reasonable guess..`
`13:32.30`	`Stskeeps`	`but not sure`
`13:32.42`	`qwerty12`	`"VERSION CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06) - http://cgiirc.sf.net/"`
`13:32.42`	`test_509`	`it doesnt say that from this end, i can see it from my house though`
`13:32.54`	`*** join/#maemo etrunko (n=edulima@200.184.118.130)`
`13:33.10`	`test_509`	`http://tablethacker.com/wp/?page_id=30&lang=en-us cool though, it might solve the problems people were haviggn with connecting`
`13:33.19`	`test_509`	`bbl (its lcuk btw)`
`13:33.32`	`qwerty12`	`lcuk? who's that?`
`13:33.48`	`lcuk`	`(it is i, le clerc)`
`13:33.51`	`*** join/#maemo kozak (n=subbu@117.192.3.70)`
`13:34.05`	`qwerty12`	`was expecting a southerner comment :P`
`13:34.15`	`lcuk`	`lol`
`13:34.16`	`lardman`	`check eee's not reaaallly a German`
`13:34.20`	`lcuk`	`france is southern`
`13:34.29`	`rmrfchik`	`lardman: I wait for maemo5 ;)`
`13:34.51`	`lardman`	`rmrfchik: really, stick in some bug reports if things annoy you, that was Nokia will know`
`13:34.58`	`lardman`	`s/was/way`
`13:35.07`	`lcuk`	`+1`
`13:35.20`	`lcuk`	`if they dont know theres a problem theres no way it can be prioritized to be fixed`
`13:35.27`	`lcuk`	`same with anything`
`13:35.59`	`lcuk`	`goes again`
`13:36.07`	`lardman`	`toilet?`
`13:36.18`	`lardman`	`avoid the curry`
`13:36.27`	`lardman`	`;p`
`13:36.33`	`lcuk`	`it wont be me that comes back in if someone else clicks the link to the chathost, im just seeing if its viable for the meeting`
`13:36.38`	`dneary`	`Hi`
`13:36.40`	`lcuk`	`ewwwwwww - actually`
`13:36.44`	`lcuk`	`bacon curry!`
`13:36.54`	`lardman`	`reduces the level of humour to the standard scatalogical base`
`13:37.10`	`lardman`	`hey Dave`
`13:37.44`	`lcuk`	`hi dneary :)`
`13:38.40`	`dneary`	`hi lardman, lcuk`
`13:40.40`	`wazd`	`dneary: hey there`
`13:40.41`	`rmrfchik`	`and sure, the most thing I want to see in maemo -- LIGHT SPEED! indeed, on my good old palm m505 (33Mhz!) address book opens in moments.`
`13:40.52`	`rmrfchik`	`on n810 it all take ages :(`
`13:41.04`	`lardman`	`it's probably pre-loaded on the Palm`
`13:41.17`	`wazd`	`rmrfchik: It's always on on Plam`
`13:41.18`	`rmrfchik`	`no, different architecture`
`13:41.21`	`glass`	`technically everything is already loaded on palm, no?`
`13:41.28`	`rmrfchik`	`glass: indeed`
`13:41.35`	`lardman`	`really? RAM disk?`
`13:41.38`	`lardman`	`or XIP?`
`13:41.41`	`rmrfchik`	`no disk at all`
`13:41.42`	`rmrfchik`	`XIP`
`13:41.46`	`lardman`	`right`
`13:41.52`	`glass`	`xip + some battery backed memory`
`13:41.55`	`glass`	`iirc`
`13:41.57`	`lardman`	`well that's not going to happen with a JFFS2 fs`
`13:41.58`	`rmrfchik`	`anyway, on wince IE runs instantly`
`13:42.20`	`dneary`	`hi wazd`
`13:42.22`	`lardman`	`well it comes down to two things, pre-loading and XIP abilities`
`13:42.26`	`rmrfchik`	`wince uses classic approach, but it runs much faster.`
`13:42.29`	`wazd`	`rmrfchik: that's IE's only function xD`
`13:42.44`	`qwerty12`	`Pocket IE sucks more than MicroB`
`13:42.54`	`lardman`	`yeah, but we're just talking about loading speed`
`13:42.57`	`qwerty12`	`So, no wonder it starts quickly.`
`13:43.01`	`lardman`	`lol`
`13:43.02`	`wazd`	`Pocket IE is the most horrible browser :)`
`13:43.24`	`lcuk`	`rmrfchik, :) liqbase opens everything nice and fast`
`13:43.30`	`rmrfchik`	`dude, when I run browser on pocket device I just want to quick pick some usefull info (train schedule, wikipedia, mail). Not full featured browsing`
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`13:43.45`	`wazd`	`rmrfchik: It's bad even for that`
`13:43.46`	`rmrfchik`	`lcuk: liqbase?? what's it?`
`13:43.55`	`lcuk`	`an idea :)`
`13:44.07`	`lardman`	`rmrfchik: yeah I get that feeling too`
`13:44.16`	`lcuk`	`a very rough hack of an idea, but its taking shape nicely`
`13:44.16`	`rmrfchik`	`wazd: it worked for me many times.`
`13:44.25`	`lcuk`	`anyway, bbl again`
`13:45.26`	`dneary`	`Jaffa: On the test tools?`
`13:45.29`	`rmrfchik`	`when I changed palm to wince, I escape using PIM (on WinCE it sucks). When I moved to n810 I almost left to browse internet (loading takes ages).`
`13:45.43`	`Stskeeps`	`rmrfchik: did you try webkit engine yet?`
`13:45.44`	`dneary`	`I've heard about this before, but haven't really understood what is in question`
`13:45.50`	`dneary`	`And what I can do to help`
`13:46.00`	`rmrfchik`	`Stskeeps: not yet. I read on forum, but didn't tried it yet.`
`13:46.18`	`Stskeeps`	`rmrfchik: you should try. it's like getting a new tablet (it still has glitches, but it's nice)`
`13:46.36`	`rmrfchik`	`rly? hmm. will try.`
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`13:49.06`	`rmrfchik`	`btw, I read some flash file system allows XIP?`
`13:50.02`	`Stskeeps`	`mm`
`13:52.25`	`Jaffa`	`dneary: no, the website`
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`13:52.46`	`Stskeeps`	`wazd: can i prod you about some quick and dirty artwork?`
`13:52.55`	`lardman`	`rmrfchik: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_systems#Features`
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`13:53.19`	`Jaffa`	`X-Fade: agreed, I can't see a whole lot of automated tests being done`
`13:53.43`	`X-Fade`	`Jaffa: I'd rather invest the resources in the brainstorm thingie..`
`13:53.47`	`dneary`	`Jaffa: OK, see it now`
`13:54.06`	`dneary`	`I'd have replied "Isn't your usecase 0 just restating my usecase 2?"`
`13:54.13`	`X-Fade`	`Jaffa: But if there is a a big demand for it, sure let's do it :)`
`13:55.06`	`lardman`	`rmrfchik: AXFS`
`13:55.36`	`wazd`	`Stskeeps: sure`
`13:56.06`	`Stskeeps`	`wazd: Mer wallpaper, this http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gnome-dialog-error.svg , text: "Incompatible bootmenu used to boot Mer. Rebooting in 15 seconds"`
`13:56.20`	`Stskeeps`	`800x480`
`13:56.40`	`Stskeeps`	`(or a similar icon of your own choosing)`
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`14:01.41`	`wazd`	`Stskeeps: k`
`14:02.10`	`Stskeeps`	`wazd: thanks in advance :)`
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`14:09.46`	`lardman`	`hmm, Eye and Brain massager: http://www.saverstore.com/productinfo/Product.aspx?product_id=20014118&rstrat=12758`
`14:10.34`	`lardman`	`not sure I want my eyes poked by vibrating plastic prongs, let alone my brain!`
`14:10.43`	`qwerty12`	`Eye massager? /me shivers`
`14:11.03`	`lardman`	`lol, the features bit is even better`
`14:11.09`	`RST38h`	`lardman: Does it come out on the other side?`
`14:11.10`	`lardman`	`Ideal for users of computers, long distance drivers, equipment operators and students and office users alike`
`14:11.15`	`lardman`	`note the long distance drivers :)`
`14:11.32`	`lardman`	`RST38h: I don't want to imagine it really! :_`
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`14:14.41`	`Jaffa`	`wazd: yeah, your rounded corner images won't look great on a different (non-white) wiki theme :-(`
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`14:18.58`	`qwerty12`	`curses hildon file chooser for wanting OK response instead of ACCEPT`
`14:19.19`	`lardman`	`We have NAND for the main flash?`
`14:21.27`	`Stskeeps`	`think so`
`14:21.45`	`lardman`	`ok, just reading about XIP and why NAND is not suitable like NOR is`
`14:23.14`	`lardman`	`what's that thing that Windows XP does called - caching executable data?`
`14:23.23`	`Stskeeps`	`preloading probably`
`14:23.28`	`Stskeeps`	`or prelinking`
`14:23.33`	`Stskeeps`	`wonders what people were smoking when they decides 802.11n would require 3-4 antennas`
`14:24.10`	`lardman`	`yeah, I think it does prelinking then caches the code to a file`
`14:24.19`	`qwerty12`	`lardman, it's called prefetch iirc in windows`
`14:24.37`	`lardman`	`thanks`
`14:24.52`	`wazd`	`Jaffa: well, it's easy to make reverse`
`14:25.11`	`lardman`	`here's a linky for anyone interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefetcher`
`14:25.46`	`qwerty12`	`"This feature is covered by US patent 6,633,968.[3]" hmm...`
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`14:25.51`	`lardman`	`yeah`
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`14:26.03`	`*** part/#maemo stv0 (n=steffen@dslb-084-058-241-178.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
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`14:27.27`	`*** join/#maemo zimmerle_ (n=zimmerle@200.184.118.130)`
`14:28.13`	`lardman`	`Linux version: http://code.google.com/p/prefetch/`
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`14:34.55`	`lardman`	`quite interesting presentation there http://prefetch.googlecode.com/files/gsoc-prefetching-presentation.pdf`
`14:37.46`	`RST38h`	`lardman: The simplest thing would be to keep track of open()s and prefetch those files into disk cache on the next bootup`
`14:38.06`	`lardman`	`mmap?`
`14:38.21`	`RST38h`	`naah, you do not want to keep them open, just want them in disk cache`
`14:38.33`	`lardman`	`I meant what if they are mmap'ed?`
`14:38.38`	`RST38h`	`But I am not sure this is all very important though`
`14:38.44`	`lardman`	`equally, they may be opened and not read`
`14:38.50`	`RST38h`	`lardman: if they are mmapped, nobody will be able to close them`
`14:39.12`	`RST38h`	`sorry, nobody will be able to open them for writing AND they will never get flushed from memory`
`14:39.26`	`lardman`	`I don't mean that the solution is to mmap them, but you need to see which files are mmaped`
`14:39.38`	`RST38h`	`It really seems easier to me to just never reboot your Linux. Put it into hibernation instead`
`14:40.05`	`lardman`	`well not just for boot time improvement, also for app startup (which is what we started talking about a while back)`
`14:40.47`	`RST38h`	`well, if it is coming up form hibernation then you either have your apps running already OR they are cached after the last run`
`14:41.02`	`lardman`	`yeah but not every app is running all the time`
`14:41.20`	`lardman`	`and if they have been pushed out of the cache...`
`14:41.30`	`RST38h`	`that is totally normal`
`14:41.35`	`lardman`	`does the hibernation code save the cache?`
`14:41.36`	`RST38h`	`that is what caching algorithm is for`
`14:41.49`	`RST38h`	`it should theoretically save the whole memory snapshot`
`14:42.22`	`lardman`	`well I could run OO lots, but then load Octave with a really big problem, which will push my OO code out of the cache, even though I often use it`
`14:42.36`	`*** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)`
`14:42.48`	`RST38h`	`lardman: this is normal behaviour`
`14:42.54`	`lardman`	`where push out of the cache is caused by Octave needing to use the memory, not Octave code replacing the OO code in the cache`
`14:43.03`	`lardman`	`normal yes, ideal no`
`14:43.03`	`RST38h`	`lardman: You have limited amount of memory, can't preload them both there`
`14:45.00`	`*** join/#maemo AndrewFBlack (n=Andrew@233-203.dothan.cable.graceba.net)`
`14:45.08`	`lardman`	`the other option is to fork from a launcher which is has already loaded shared libs`
`14:45.19`	`lardman`	`this happens on Maemo now doesn't it?`
`14:45.28`	`lardman`	`and likewise for the browser`
`14:45.31`	`AndrewFBlack`	`Hello`
`14:45.38`	`lardman`	`hello AndrewFBlack`
`14:45.43`	`qwerty12`	`lardman, https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/branches/maemo-launcher/0.21_new_hildon/README ?`
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`14:45.47`	`qwerty12`	`hi AndrewFBlack`
`14:46.17`	`RST38h`	`lardman: Before you start preloading things, you have to accept that you can't preload everything.`
`14:46.25`	`lardman`	`indeed`
`14:46.38`	`lardman`	`but with the cache it doesn't preload, it just keeps stuff loaded`
`14:46.59`	`RST38h`	`lardman; Once this notion is out of the way, note that disk cache replacement algorithm used in Linux is already doing decent job on keeping most often used pages in memory`
`14:47.16`	`AndrewFBlack`	`got a question from all you smart people out there is there a way to make an Personal Menu or Personal Launcher entry to lanch a file from a memory card? The file i want to open is a html file also is there any way to do an entry to open a web address?`
`14:47.31`	`RST38h`	`lardman; So, if you preserve disk cache on hibernation, you should be ok`
`14:47.41`	`qwerty12`	`AndrewFBlack, easy way is "browser --url=<location to file>"`
`14:47.51`	`RST38h`	`Andrew: Can't execute stuff from memory cards`
`14:47.55`	`lardman`	`RST38h: how large is the disk cache?`
`14:48.03`	`RST38h`	`Andrew: But can use it as data input , as qwerty says`
`14:48.14`	`RST38h`	`lardman: Normally, your entire unused memory`
`14:48.23`	`RST38h`	`lardman: At least this is how it works in FreeBSD`
`14:48.35`	`AndrewFBlack`	`qwerty12, you put that in as Command to execute?`
`14:48.40`	`lardman`	`ah yes, the cache is disk cache only, not executable code`
`14:48.42`	`qwerty12`	`AndrewFBlack, yes`
`14:49.03`	`RST38h`	`lardman: Yes, we are talking about OS-managed disk page cache here`
`14:49.03`	`AndrewFBlack`	`that would work for file and for web address then`
`14:49.36`	`qwerty12`	`If file = equals html or somesuch, yes. And yes, it accepts web address too.`
`14:49.48`	`lardman`	`RST38h: I was thinking of Windows which caches executable code too`
`14:50.07`	`AndrewFBlack`	`you know simple things like these would be great to add to wiki for End Users`
`14:50.33`	`lardman`	`AndrewFBlack: get adding then :)`
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`14:52.42`	`AndrewFBlack`	`Thanks qwerty12 got it working also lardman I think I will add it`
`14:53.26`	`lardman`	`AndrewFBlack: the big issue I always find is wondering where to add it, or if to make a new page, and in which case where, etc`
`14:54.48`	`AndrewFBlack`	`well we could make a page just for it or we could start a page for Personal Menu tips and tricks there are a few other things that could go on that page like the thing last week about making a volume up and down using pmenu/plauncher`
`14:56.25`	`RST38h`	`lardman: Linux should also cache executable code`
`14:56.38`	`RST38h`	`lardman: it is no different from anything else, same disk pages`
`14:57.31`	`lardman`	`except there's an extra layer of work inbetween`
`14:59.30`	`RST38h`	`lardman: not really`
`14:59.52`	`RST38h`	`lardman: I think you mean strictly preloading certain executables and libraries on startup?`
`14:59.55`	`ShadowJK`	`cache isn't saved on hibernation`
`15:00.32`	`lcuk`	`serious question about the browser: wtf takes so long to make it start. its a blank page with no media to preload or anything`
`15:00.46`	`lardman`	`RST38h: the prefetcher loads certain preloads certain sections of files I think`
`15:00.50`	`RST38h`	`ShadowJK: Then saving it may essentially solve the problem. Or, rather, you can save the page list and slowly load it up after you get out of hibernation`
`15:00.57`	`lardman`	`ShadowJK: cool, I thought I'd read that somewhere`
`15:01.07`	`RST38h`	`lardman: certain sections of files = pages :)`
`15:01.16`	`lardman`	`RST38h: still won't speed up app load times`
`15:01.27`	`RST38h`	`lardman: It will`
`15:01.31`	`lardman`	`RST38h: yes, but we're talking about a couple of different approaches here`
`15:01.33`	`RST38h`	`lardman: Consider this:`
`15:01.40`	`lcuk`	`does the brainfuck for start times come from gtk or from the app itself?`
`15:01.46`	`lardman`	`RST38h: it will only speed up the 2nd load and those afterwards`
`15:02.04`	`RST38h`	`lardman: which is perfectly fine if you never reboot`
`15:02.15`	`ShadowJK`	`Hibernation roughly works something like this: evict all pages you can, push the rest out to swap until all the ram is free`
`15:02.17`	`lardman`	`and even then, only if the cache hasn't been purged due to the memory being required`
`15:02.54`	`RST38h`	`lardman: well, you have limited memory, this will affect both approaches`
`15:02.58`	`lcuk`	`an x11 native app starts quickly. liqbase starts quickly. what makes gtk so slow`
`15:03.09`	`ShadowJK`	`Yep, the biggest limit is the relatively small ram.`
`15:03.15`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: ldd <executable>`
`15:03.22`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: and you will see`
`15:03.27`	`lcuk`	`RST38h, nonesense - try it with an x11 app`
`15:03.28`	`lcuk`	`its quick`
`15:03.29`	`lardman`	`RST38h: agreed, if I want to start my second app as soon as memory is again free for the cache, but not if there's a gap - in that case I could reaload the cache`
`15:03.41`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: Do try ldd on an x11 app and on a gtk app`
`15:03.42`	`ShadowJK`	`lcuk, strace it :-)`
`15:03.43`	`lcuk`	`sorry :$ i thought ldd was just the thing to run it`
`15:03.59`	`lcuk`	`not my job Shadow__X :) my apps start quickly tyvm`
`15:04.00`	`ShadowJK`	`firefox was famous for doing some 50,000 open() and even more malloc() on startup`
`15:04.31`	`lcuk`	`i think in part its the translation`
`15:04.51`	`lcuk`	`you have to read and identify and replace the strings from every single component in app`
`15:05.00`	`lcuk`	`and then theres the theming`
`15:05.31`	`lcuk`	`(im thinking in a different way to just trying to cache it)`
`15:05.45`	`ShadowJK`	`gtk is slow at starting up even if everything is already in ram. Though you lot probably have fast computers so you don't notice it, except maybe on tablet`
`15:05.57`	`lcuk`	`yes Shadowjk`
`15:05.57`	`suihkulokki`	`lcuk: those pretty gtk themes - try starting a gtk app without any theming`
`15:06.00`	`lcuk`	`so make it fast`
`15:06.11`	`lcuk`	`suihkulokki, im not saying get rid of them`
`15:06.18`	`lcuk`	`im saying make those operations faster`
`15:06.41`	`lcuk`	`windowing applications are not slow on this device`
`15:06.56`	`ShadowJK`	`gtk also does other fun things. Sometimes it quickly draws gray over the entire window, then slowly fills it black, and then quickly gray, and then starts drawing the widgets, sometimes multiple times :-)`
`15:06.59`	`lcuk`	`its the gubbins that goes ontop that makes them feel slow`
`15:07.17`	`lardman`	`ShadowJK: why on Earth?`
`15:07.25`	`lcuk`	`ShadowJK, yeah i keep seeing multiple things overlaying my overlay`
`15:07.37`	`lcuk`	`thats the render algo lardman`
`15:07.45`	`lcuk`	`and the way it interacts with x11 and stuff`
`15:07.47`	`ShadowJK`	`lardman, well you don't notice on a fast system, you don't even notice it on tablet most of the time`
`15:07.50`	`lardman`	`yeah, but why do that?`
`15:08.10`	`ShadowJK`	`I'd call it bug`
`15:08.21`	`lardman`	`ok`
`15:08.30`	`ShadowJK`	`Try running remote X over a 1mbit link and you can see all the waste :-)`
`15:08.39`	`lcuk`	`cos of the laered way widgets work and update themselves, very tricky to remove in best case without compromising lots of things`
`15:08.55`	`ShadowJK`	`Amusingly KDE seems faster when actual drawing is expensive, like over remote X`
`15:09.00`	`lcuk`	`:) ShadowJK if every developer worked on such a system x11 would be pristine`
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`15:09.30`	`RST38h`	`ran X11 over a modem`
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`15:09.35`	`RST38h`	`Routinely.`
`15:09.45`	`ShadowJK`	`gtk would be painful`
`15:09.48`	`lcuk`	`tries to work on slowest feasible system possible to ensure when real users get software it works nicely`
`15:10.02`	`johnx`	`it's the latency that kills, not the bandwidth`
`15:10.45`	`lcuk`	`johnx, the .net IDE in windows suffers from lag :D`
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`15:11.41`	`ShadowJK`	`I heard QT caches things to reduce the amount of roundtrips to X :-)`
`15:11.58`	`johnx`	`nx would help too...but I never managed to ever get it working right`
`15:12.06`	`lcuk`	`but then again it works on 32bit super bitmaps continuously so sends over 2x as much data :)`
`15:12.10`	`lcuk`	`swings and roundabouts`
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`15:13.09`	`johnx`	`also, I imagine lcuk's apps would be bandwidth limited in X11 :)`
`15:13.11`	`RST38h`	`~burn .NET IDE`
`15:13.12`	`infobot`	`ACTION pours gasoline all over .NET IDE, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze`
`15:13.14`	`lcuk`	`i know why x11 exists and what it can do, but since 99% of users and time its not required why do we suffer`
`15:13.32`	`lcuk`	`yeah johnx i wholeheartedly agree`
`15:13.39`	`johnx`	`lcuk, everyone says that at some point`
`15:13.47`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: Why do you suffer, again?`
`15:13.55`	`lcuk`	`cos its slow`
`15:13.56`	`RST38h`	`does not get what is wrong with X11`
`15:13.57`	`aquatix`	`because we can!`
`15:14.01`	`lcuk`	`suboptimal`
`15:14.03`	`RST38h`	`Not slow, works like a charm`
`15:14.29`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: Like throwing bitmaps around, ain't you? =)`
`15:14.30`	`johnx`	`sorry lcuk. I'm with RST38h here :)`
`15:14.39`	`lcuk`	`am i only asking this because of hte omapfb/blizzard?`
`15:14.39`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: Then use MITSHM.`
`15:15.21`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: My guess is that you are asking it because you play with bitmaps while X11 was primarily designed for vectored graphics and text`
`15:15.23`	`johnx`	`some people still claim X is slow...and it is slower than writing right on the framebuffer...but it repeat after me: "Abstraction is important"`
`15:15.28`	`lcuk`	`RST38h, throwing bitmaps aint a problem - networking game engines do exist and work well - wow, unreal etc all do rich graphically intensive stuff over a network`
`15:15.39`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: they do not really`
`15:15.43`	`lcuk`	`RST38h, vectors are core to my system`
`15:15.46`	`dob`	`garage returns html when I try to download files :/`
`15:15.54`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: All that rich graphical stuff is present locally.`
`15:16.02`	`johnx`	`RST38h, I did use Quake3 rendered remotely over 100Mb/s ethernet :)`
`15:16.02`	`lcuk`	`yes i know`
`15:16.11`	`johnx`	`indirect glx rocks`
`15:16.12`	`lcuk`	`thats the point, the server tells it where to put it`
`15:16.14`	`RST38h`	`johnx: Umghrhr`
`15:16.33`	`johnx`	`RST38h, was about as fast as VGBA on a tablet...`
`15:16.48`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: If vectors are the core, you can probably use X11 and it won't be slower than your own algorithms`
`15:17.07`	`ShadowJK`	`Heh. The point I was originally trying to make was that X itself isn't slow, it's the apps that are slow :-) As can be seen by all the pointless stuff they do, which becomes clearly visible once you slow down the computer or the app<->x11 connection enough`
`15:17.17`	`lcuk`	`+1`
`15:17.20`	`*** join/#maemo ceyusa (n=ceyusa@cm216016.red83-165.mundo-r.com)`
`15:17.48`	`lcuk`	`RST38h, i am mixing up bad graphics experience on the device with x11 itself`
`15:17.54`	`lcuk`	`apologises`
`15:17.56`	`RST38h`	`Well, if we are talking FireFox or OpenOffice, I do not think they are slow because of the X11 stuff at all`
`15:18.12`	`johnx`	`lcuk, you might still find X11 slow in some cases...definitely slower than the framebuffer`
`15:18.18`	`ShadowJK`	`just strace firefox or ooo startup... the results will make you cry`
`15:18.23`	`RST38h`	`Latest @@&Q#%^%#@ FireFox is slow because it is managing memory aggresively, I think`
`15:18.25`	`Macer`	`damn`
`15:18.30`	`johnx`	`and there are valid complaints against it, but it allows such nice tricks, even when used locally`
`15:18.31`	`Macer`	`my n800 can connect to my G1`
`15:18.43`	`RST38h`	`That is how Mozilla team "addressed" large memory footprint problem`
`15:18.45`	`Macer`	`and tether over wifi`
`15:18.49`	`Macer`	`but the damn kubuntu can not`
`15:18.51`	`lcuk`	`johnx, i overloaded the x buffer on numerous occasions and sent half an update over before i was ready`
`15:19.01`	`Macer`	`don't know what it is.. it all seems like it should work`
`15:19.26`	`lcuk`	`Macer, STOP. make sure you get a condom, g1 has cooties`
`15:19.30`	`RST38h`	`johnx: Once he starts drawing polygons and lines in that framebuffer, X11 will beat him`
`15:19.42`	`lcuk`	`no rst`
`15:19.45`	`lcuk`	`it doesnt`
`15:19.52`	`lcuk`	`look at what i just said`
`15:19.58`	`ShadowJK`	`RST38h, well, I think they provided their own malloc() implementation because calling malloc() a million times was too slow. This doesn't quite solve the issue though :-)`
`15:20.05`	`Macer`	`lcuk: :) no bt dun with a g1`
`15:20.18`	`*** join/#maemo sergio (n=sergio@fanzine.igalia.com)`
`15:20.22`	`Macer`	`have to use the wifi adhoc method`
`15:20.30`	`Macer`	`but i sure wish this damn kubuntu would connect to it`
`15:20.37`	`johnx`	`Macer, oh nice. they found a new way to get root on it?`
`15:20.40`	`lcuk`	`can we install mer on g1 yet?`
`15:21.02`	`ShadowJK`	`Doesn't ad-hoc use stupid amounts of energy?`
`15:21.08`	`johnx`	`lcuk, once you get one shipped to me or Stskeeps :P`
`15:21.14`	`RST38h`	`ShadowJK: Sooner or later they still have to go to the crapp^H^H^HAllocMem()`
`15:21.31`	`ShadowJK`	`mmap() or brk()`
`15:21.31`	`StsN801`	`not paying a 25 plus 500 dollar jailbreak fee`
`15:21.33`	`RST38h`	`ShadowJK: And I get random <1s hangups.`
`15:21.34`	`lcuk`	`johnx :)`
`15:22.03`	`lcuk`	`paid ~£400 to jailbreak his pda`
`15:22.03`	`ShadowJK`	`RST38h, oh those used to be 1 minute hangups with my old computer and firefox2 :-)`
`15:22.18`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: So, you are drawing polygons faster than X11 own implementation?`
`15:22.46`	`RST38h`	`ShadowJK: Weirdly, FF2 never cause me such problems, but it leaked like crazy so I had to restart it every 4 hours or so`
`15:22.52`	`lcuk`	`RST38h, i use shm and essentially talk to the omapfb which sends data directly to the blizzard lcd driver`
`15:22.54`	`lcuk`	`yes`
`15:23.02`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gateway.sunflowerbroadband.com)`
`15:23.03`	`johnx`	`RST38h, well it's more like he shifted the burden to deal with a stupid ball n' chain named 'blizzard'`
`15:23.13`	`RST38h`	`johnx: Ah`
`15:23.25`	`moontiger`	`hey lcuk ... guys :)`
`15:23.30`	`lcuk`	`and doubly so because im sending less data`
`15:23.41`	`lcuk`	`i can have a fullscreen updated and be onto the next one whilst x11 is half done`
`15:23.42`	`RST38h`	`yea, guess so`
`15:23.51`	`moontiger`	`anybody know why the rotation support isnt working after the last SSU ?`
`15:23.54`	`lcuk`	`hiya moontiger :) haven't seen you in a while`
`15:23.58`	`ShadowJK`	`"drawing polygons" isn't the same as drawing a polygon in a bitmap and sending that to X :)`
`15:24.01`	`RST38h`	`moon: need a new kernel`
`15:24.05`	`moontiger`	`lcuk, been moving to madrid :)`
`15:24.06`	`RST38h`	`and a few other things`
`15:24.14`	`lcuk`	`ooooooh swanky`
`15:24.18`	`moontiger`	`RST38h, ahhhhhhhhh ok`
`15:24.27`	`lcuk`	`you will have to jaiku more often and we will know`
`15:24.33`	`moontiger`	`hehe well i dont know about swanky but its freaking cold`
`15:24.36`	`johnx`	`lcuk, that's the ticket right there :) if you could use the same visual you are now and still draw your lines with X11 primitives you'd probably see nice performance`
`15:24.42`	`lcuk`	`ShadowJK, i can do the same with bitmaps as well :)`
`15:24.51`	`moontiger`	`jaiku is going bye byes no? i thought google pulled the plug?`
`15:25.04`	`RST38h`	`pulled life support`
`15:25.09`	`lcuk`	`johnx, no it would still pop the x11 buffers and not get through a whole screen in one go`
`15:25.11`	`Jaffa`	`No, they're stopping further development; but are open sourcing the code`
`15:25.13`	`RST38h`	`not necessarily killing it outright`
`15:25.23`	`moontiger`	`ahhhhhhhhh i'll re-install it then :)`
`15:25.34`	`lcuk`	`moontiger, psssst its a website :P`
`15:25.49`	`johnx`	`lcuk, aaah, because you're doing tricks to deal with the ungodly long time it takes to refresh the screen?`
`15:25.50`	`moontiger`	`lcuk, hehe really? is that one of those intertube things?`
`15:25.53`	`moontiger`	`:)~`
`15:25.56`	`lcuk`	`jaiku.com ;)`
`15:26.14`	`moontiger`	`i was using maiku on my tablet`
`15:26.23`	`lcuk`	`no johnx, because im drawing so many bloody lines - i might be able to find the x11 way of handling it but its not optimal at present`
`15:26.37`	`johnx`	`huh`
`15:27.01`	`lcuk`	`drawing lots of lines each with a different color`
`15:27.16`	`lcuk`	`there is only a limited amount of x11 buffer space before it pushes them to be drawn`
`15:27.24`	`lcuk`	`so it draws half`
`15:27.30`	`lcuk`	`then finishes drawing`
`15:27.38`	`lcuk`	`instead of a single frame update`
`15:27.51`	`lcuk`	`it comes in waves`
`15:27.52`	`johnx`	`ah, which just wouldn't matter on most systems`
`15:27.58`	`lcuk`	`yeah`
`15:28.07`	`johnx`	`iiinteresting`
`15:28.13`	`lcuk`	`its ugly`
`15:28.16`	`johnx`	`this would explain why my zaurus feels faster sometimes`
`15:28.26`	`lcuk`	`possibly`
`15:28.27`	`johnx`	`even though every frame drawn has to be rotated on the CPU :>`
`15:28.42`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: X11 has specific APIs for drawing lots of lines :)`
`15:28.59`	`lcuk`	`yes can it change the color of each line as its being drawn as i have to?`
`15:29.04`	`lcuk`	`did check such things`
`15:29.06`	`*** join/#maemo StOrM_NW (n=Josias@nat.gprt.ufpe.br)`
`15:29.19`	`ShadowJK`	`RST38h, last time I ran oprofile, on otherwise idle system, firefox's XUL shit came up in the top of the list. I don't really know much about what it is or what it's good for, but when I see threads where people want XUL on tablet I just go "huh", thinking that if there's no XUL there, why would they want to add it, seeing it tops CPU usage on my desktop PC :)`
`15:29.23`	`lcuk`	`ie line starts in one color and changes along each point`
`15:29.23`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: Do you do XFlush() or XSync() after each line or at the end of the total batch?`
`15:29.33`	`lcuk`	`end of batch`
`15:29.36`	`RST38h`	`ok`
`15:29.45`	`lcuk`	`but it happens automatically if x11 fills its buffers`
`15:30.04`	`RST38h`	`ShadowJK: Congratulations, as XUL is the quasi-language used for the whole FireFox UI`
`15:30.19`	`lcuk`	`i hope to god this is right, its from vauge memories from right at the start`
`15:30.40`	`RST38h`	`ShadowJK: In other words, no chance of getting rid of it :)`
`15:31.12`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: I do suspect you won't be able to use DrawPoly if you would like to change color on each segment though`
`15:31.13`	`ShadowJK`	`RST38h, hm, do things like kazehakase use it?`
`15:31.30`	`lcuk`	`yeah RST38h me too, ive never been able to use such apis in windows either`
`15:31.34`	`RST38h`	`ShadowJK: Well, some people found it pretty usable for UI outside FF`
`15:31.44`	`RST38h`	`ShadowJK: It is neat, just heavy`
`15:31.53`	`lcuk`	`+1`
`15:31.58`	`lcuk`	`and its not that heavy`
`15:32.02`	`*** join/#maemo murrayc (n=murrayc@dslb-084-056-014-046.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`15:32.06`	`lcuk`	`for what it does`
`15:32.17`	`lcuk`	`anyway, must dash, bbl`
`15:32.20`	`johnx`	`lcuk, I'm really surprised to hear someone like you say that :)`
`15:32.30`	`StOrM_NW`	`i m using this kernel on n810 - linux Nokia-N810-43-7 2.6.21-omap1 kernel, does it provides bridge support? CONFIG_BRIDGE=y/m? or i will have to get the source and compile my own kernel version and flash it to the device?`
`15:32.30`	`ShadowJK`	`hm, I need to capture some data for one of those long periods of firefox locking up`
`15:32.31`	`johnx`	`ever try anything xul based on the tablet?`
`15:33.01`	`StOrM_NW`	`i m trying to use bridge-utils on maemo`
`15:33.18`	`lcuk`	`johnx, just because im very interested in optimization does not mean i dislike scripting :: i just think it works better with an optimized core:: liqbase may very well end up with a scripting language built up around it :) but im not quite sure if i will wire one up just yet :P`
`15:34.06`	`lcuk`	`having everything in C gives many more options for adding bindings for anything I want - i havent restricted myself by writing in something unusable elsewhere`
`15:34.07`	`lcuk`	`;)`
`15:34.10`	`lcuk`	`<PROTECTED>`
`15:34.19`	`johnx`	`'later lcuk :)`
`15:34.58`	`*** join/#maemo stv01 (n=steffen@dslb-084-058-220-033.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`15:35.40`	`*** part/#maemo stv01 (n=steffen@dslb-084-058-220-033.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`15:39.07`	`*** join/#maemo simboss (n=simone@host177-41-dynamic.30-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`15:43.52`	`*** join/#maemo frade (n=ivan@esprx01x.nokia.com)`
`15:45.59`	`*** join/#maemo rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@gtsgw.ttc.cz)`
`15:47.09`	`*** join/#maemo StOrM_NW (n=Josias@nat.gprt.ufpe.br)`
`15:50.37`	`*** join/#maemo andre__ (n=andre@f053154067.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`15:51.28`	`*** join/#maemo gletelli (n=chatzill@fw-tnat.cambridge.arm.com)`
`15:52.58`	`*** join/#maemo madhav (n=Administ@122.172.61.248)`
`15:53.18`	`*** join/#maemo GeneralAntilles (n=GeneralA@c-69-244-211-19.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)`
`15:53.42`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: http://jaiku.com/channel/mer/presence/52297083 btw`
`15:53.52`	`johnx`	`priorities?`
`15:53.59`	`johnx`	`yup, looking at them in order`
`15:54.08`	`Stskeeps`	`nah, CC NC discussion`
`15:54.20`	`johnx`	`ah...hmmm`
`15:54.25`	`Stskeeps`	`i just thought about when seeing licensing on some audio files`
`15:54.44`	`Macer`	`argh!`
`15:54.51`	`Macer`	`i can't seem to get kubuntu to work in adhoc mode`
`15:54.55`	`Macer`	`it's driving me nuts :)`
`15:55.04`	`Stskeeps`	`(i loathe licenses discussion but i think this one is good to get down before we continue too far with project :)`
`15:55.04`	`Macer`	`i have no idea why it's not picking it up.. the n800 picks it up fine`
`15:55.17`	`Macer`	`is there like something special you have to do in ubuntu/kubuntu to get adhoc going?`
`15:55.23`	`Macer`	`like... insmod adhoc`
`15:55.25`	`Macer`	`heh`
`15:55.32`	`Stskeeps`	`Macer: no, should work fine. Wifi driver problem usually`
`15:55.40`	`Stskeeps`	`"Create new wireless network"?`
`15:55.45`	`Macer`	`yah`
`15:55.54`	`Macer`	`it sees the adhoc network`
`15:56.04`	`Macer`	`but won't connect/acquire ip from the phone`
`15:56.05`	`johnx`	`Stskeeps, I think it's important to keep things that give us a 'competitive advantage' or that constitute 'differentiation' from being used against us by our competitors`
`15:56.08`	`johnx`	`runs :D`
`15:56.18`	`johnx`	`Stskeeps, I agree with you 100%`
`15:56.26`	`Stskeeps`	`hehe :P`
`15:56.32`	`johnx`	`it was just too good to avoid saying`
`15:57.06`	`johnx`	`Macer, wait, so it won't associate or it doesn't get an IP?`
`15:57.07`	`*** join/#maemo dougt (n=dougt@c-24-6-167-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`15:57.17`	`johnx`	`comments on-record`
`15:58.01`	`Macer`	`i don't think it's associating`
`15:58.11`	`johnx`	`Macer, what does iwconfig say?`
`15:58.29`	`Macer`	`when kubuntu tries to connect to the adhoc network it just goes through channels`
`15:58.38`	`Macer`	`and never connects`
`15:58.54`	`Macer`	`the n800 just gets right on and works :)`
`15:59.01`	`Macer`	`i am about to install vista on this macbook`
`15:59.11`	`Macer`	`i want my laptop to be able to tether to this damn phone heh`
`15:59.21`	`lcuk`	`johnx, are you ill? i thought i saw you vomit a little bit up there`
`15:59.41`	`johnx`	`lcuk, I couldn't resist the irony :) was too tempting`
`15:59.55`	`Macer`	`i don't think the kubuntu netwrok-manager actually knows it is an adhoc network`
`16:00.01`	`lcuk`	`its not just irony, its coppery and zincy as well`
`16:00.03`	`Macer`	`it doesn't seem to change its mode when trying to connect`
`16:00.13`	`Macer`	`sure wish someone would just make ap software for the g1 :)`
`16:00.18`	`Macer`	`that would be awesome`
`16:00.50`	`*** join/#maemo StsN801 (n=user@84.238.94.136)`
`16:02.22`	`lcuk`	`wonders how far into bootup he would need to go before being able to bring up liqbase`
`16:02.50`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: Are you going to compile liqbase into the kernel? =)`
`16:03.17`	`lcuk`	`heh no, but im betting its feasible to bring it up by the time the please wait loading progress bar is visible`
`16:03.42`	`lardman`	`before the x-server?`
`16:03.53`	`lcuk`	`the progress bar uses x doesnt it?`
`16:03.59`	`lardman`	`I doubt it`
`16:04.19`	`lcuk`	`if not then it will have to wait`
`16:04.26`	`lcuk`	`ahhh no, you are right, it uses omapfb directly`
`16:04.43`	`lcuk`	`remembers reading the code`
`16:05.00`	`*** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)`
`16:05.06`	`lcuk`	`i suppose i could just set omap into the correct stage and get my wiggle on`
`16:05.29`	`RST38h`	`Nokia eats up another small software developer`
`16:05.43`	`Stskeeps`	`who now?`
`16:05.52`	`RST38h`	`Bit Side - the Nokia Maps people`
`16:06.40`	`lcuk`	`om nom nom`
`16:06.57`	`RST38h`	`There seems to be like a cottage industry of small (5-50 people) companies doing software development for Nokia`
`16:07.23`	`lcuk`	`RST38h, thats because nokia has a large collection of devices requiring software developed for it`
`16:07.25`	`RST38h`	`I guess Nokia eats them up when they see danger of them going astray =)`
`16:07.42`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: Nokia has exactly three kinds of devices`
`16:07.46`	`lcuk`	`not always :)`
`16:07.56`	`RST38h`	`Ok, there are also dumb phones and even dumber winmobile navigator`
`16:08.25`	`wazd`	`Well, work-in-progress: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Wazd/Sandbox/Mer`
`16:08.49`	`wazd`	`Since I can't change link colors, then I have to change background :(`
`16:09.00`	`Stskeeps`	`wazd: still very big contrast with white vs black :P`
`16:09.08`	`Stskeeps`	`as in, surrounding wiki`
`16:09.28`	`lcuk`	`less extreme that before wazd, looks cool, BUT, for the website boundary`
`16:09.42`	`RST38h`	`wazd: Why not drop wiki?`
`16:09.52`	`lcuk`	`i like the deep water effect - the brilliant white of the old deskttop background was distracting`
`16:09.53`	`RST38h`	`This does not seem to require wiki`
`16:09.53`	`wazd`	`RST38h: I don't know :D`
`16:10.15`	`RST38h`	`wazd: [and can we please have the tentacles reaching from the bottom? ;)]`
`16:10.53`	`wazd`	`RST38h: sure, right after managing proper background for blocks :)`
`16:11.21`	`Jaffa`	`RST38h: because the Mer homepage is on wiki.maemo.org for now, with no good reason to change it?`
`16:12.42`	`wazd`	`Right now it looks like something really extraordinary, not "yet-another-wiki-page" :)`
`16:12.42`	`wazd`	`Contrast plays on our side this time`
`16:12.42`	`Stskeeps`	`wazd: how difficult it it to make the layout crash totally? :P`
`16:12.49`	`wazd`	`Stskeeps: this layout is pretty scalable)`
`16:13.04`	`Stskeeps`	`likes it being on wiki as we can edit things easily and add things easily without going through a huge design process :P`
`16:13.10`	`wazd`	`Stskeeps: you should view it thru some cheap phon I think :)`
`16:14.22`	`RST38h`	`Jaffa: Well, wiki's menus obviously get in the way, isn't it a good enough reason?`
`16:14.23`	`wazd`	`and it's usable with every skin :)`
`16:14.23`	`Stskeeps`	`one thing i would like on front page is a link to current sprint, like, "What needs to be done for next release" or the likes, though`
`16:14.40`	`Stskeeps`	`as it's very hidden atm`
`16:14.51`	`Jaffa`	`RST38h: but it means everyone can edit it, there's version control - and the wiki doesn't really get in the way.`
`16:14.51`	`lardman`	`and a list of things which need to be done overall, so people can see what they want to tackle?`
`16:15.04`	`lcuk`	`how is it easier to port existing applications by hildonizing and adjusting them?`
`16:15.07`	`Stskeeps`	`lardman: i'm not even sure what the high level goals are :P`
`16:15.28`	`*** join/#maemo rm_you (n=rm_you@66-90-182-169.dyn.grandenetworks.net)`
`16:15.34`	`Stskeeps`	`lcuk: well.`
`16:15.41`	`rm_you`	`omfg`
`16:16.00`	`lcuk`	`omg rm_you, its you - did you fall into a wormhole or something`
`16:16.03`	`rm_you`	`haven't opened my IRC client in ... months`
`16:16.05`	`Stskeeps`	`lcuk: 1) you don't have to fight with old libraries. 2) you don't have to fight with having to build X library you have on desktop but not on maemo, 3) etc`
`16:16.07`	`RST38h`	`rm_us: ehlo`
`16:16.08`	`*** join/#maemo mypapit_fakaped (n=mhafiz@47.42.50.60.kmr04-home.tm.net.my)`
`16:16.09`	`Stskeeps`	`:P`
`16:16.11`	`rm_you`	`lcuk: you could say that :P`
`16:16.11`	`lcuk`	`and you are meant to type your proper channel, not this one`
`16:16.14`	`Stskeeps`	`lcuk: you just concentrate on hildonizing`
`16:16.39`	`rm_you`	`lcuk: how go your projects of late?`
`16:16.41`	`lcuk`	`<PROTECTED>`
`16:16.51`	`wazd`	`hey rm_you :)`
`16:16.58`	`Stskeeps`	`lcuk: well as in that you don't need all the other crap you need to do on maemo :P`
`16:17.15`	`rm_you`	`hey wazd / RST38h :)`
`16:17.19`	`lcuk`	`rm_you, very well actually :) i have lots of goodies built and things are coming together nice enough to let me see glimpses of the whole :)`
`16:17.26`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gateway.sunflowerbroadband.com)`
`16:17.26`	`rm_you`	`nice`
`16:17.51`	`wazd`	`the best thing bout current layout - that you can easily make every Mer page look like index`
`16:17.52`	`lcuk`	`yes - my fingers are finally catching up with my mind`
`16:17.59`	`johnx`	`hey rm_you :D`
`16:17.59`	`rm_you`	`got back into the tablet recently... this time because my GF likes to use it for knitting patterns :)`
`16:18.04`	`rm_you`	`johnx: sup :)`
`16:18.36`	`Stskeeps`	`rm_you: been tracking Mer development? :>`
`16:18.49`	`rm_you`	`Stskeeps: I wish... I lost track of like... everything`
`16:18.51`	`Stskeeps`	`rm_you: if not, definately go see http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer`
`16:18.53`	`rm_you`	`how has it been going?`
`16:18.56`	`rm_you`	`kk`
`16:19.25`	`lcuk`	`rm_you, don't lie, you havent got a girlfriend and you are just stuck at knitting`
`16:19.36`	`rm_you`	`lol`
`16:19.50`	`rm_you`	`does like knitting now`
`16:20.00`	`lcuk`	`i used to sign ppl up to knitting websites who riled me`
`16:20.07`	`rm_you`	`heh`
`16:20.20`	`rm_you`	`ick, why do i still use IE6`
`16:20.41`	`lcuk`	`lol cos its the most stable`
`16:20.49`	`lcuk`	`and all the worms have stopped targetting it now`
`16:20.55`	`lcuk`	`titters`
`16:21.01`	`rm_you`	`the Mer page looks horrible in IE6 :P`
`16:21.04`	`rm_you`	`it fails at CSS`
`16:21.21`	`StOrM_NW`	`anyone using maemo sdk+? i m trying to compile kernel using the source version, but i got /bin/sh: arm-linux-gcc: command not found`
`16:21.36`	`johnx`	`rm_you, you're like 2 versions of IE behind. WTH do you expect?`
`16:21.42`	`rm_you`	`lol`
`16:21.55`	`wazd`	`rm_you: this should be fine http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Wazd/Sandbox/Mer`
`16:21.57`	`lcuk`	`johnx, hes waiting for you to come back and fix it for him`
`16:22.04`	`rm_you`	`like i said, dunno why i still use it, besides the enormous hatred i have for IE7`
`16:22.22`	`lcuk`	`rm_you, you have pm :)`
`16:22.34`	`wazd`	`oh`
`16:22.35`	`johnx`	`lcuk, nah, rm_you was always the one good at fixing windows stuff :P`
`16:22.41`	`rm_you`	`lol thanks wazd. still some issues, but usable :P`
`16:22.42`	`johnx`	`I was no good at windows so I had to give up :/`
`16:22.47`	`wazd`	`Nothing close to "fine" ))`
`16:22.50`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lol, rm_you, Myrtti will probably start shipping you free tablets if you code up a knitting program. :P`
`16:22.58`	`rm_you`	`lol`
`16:23.03`	`rm_you`	`GeneralAntilles: I was seriously considering it`
`16:23.06`	`lcuk`	`lolololol`
`16:23.11`	`Myrtti`	`oooooooh`
`16:23.15`	`rm_you`	`lol`
`16:23.16`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Haa`
`16:23.16`	`johnx`	`ahaha`
`16:23.20`	`Myrtti`	`I'll knit you a pair of mittens`
`16:23.20`	`rm_you`	`sup Myrtti :P`
`16:23.21`	`Myrtti`	`and a hat`
`16:23.24`	`rm_you`	`lol`
`16:23.25`	`Myrtti`	`and a scarf`
`16:23.33`	`rm_you`	`what are you looking for in a knitting program?`
`16:23.34`	`Stskeeps`	`wonders idly`
`16:23.37`	`Myrtti`	`shawl for your mum?`
`16:23.47`	`Myrtti`	`I did one just on Sunday...`
`16:23.48`	`rm_you`	`is currently MAKING a shawl for my mum :P`
`16:23.52`	`rm_you`	`Tie One On, from Knitty`
`16:23.52`	`johnx`	`wazd, that looks really slick. hadn't seen it yet`
`16:24.08`	`lcuk`	`Myrtti, are your knitting creations licensed correctly?`
`16:24.13`	`*** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=slonopot@83.149.9.132)`
`16:24.14`	`lcuk`	`can i have the source code to them`
`16:24.33`	`wazd`	`really hates IE optimisations but that's the job :(`
`16:24.33`	`Myrtti`	`rm_you: just a basic one that could do graphical patterns`
`16:24.34`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Advanced Knitting ;)`
`16:24.47`	`rm_you`	`anyway, was considering making a true knitting program for maemo, with my GF (who took a few programming classes last year)`
`16:25.03`	`rm_you`	`she's crazy good at knitting :P`
`16:25.09`	`rm_you`	`I'm still learning`
`16:25.12`	`Myrtti`	`rm_you: http://jacquie.typepad.com/Charts/knitChart.htm something like this`
`16:25.36`	`rm_you`	`yeah, i was looking for one of these`
`16:25.41`	`Myrtti`	`or if you've come across with FairIsle.jar`
`16:25.42`	`rm_you`	`I figured it must exist`
`16:25.44`	`RST38h`	`AMD has no replacement planned for the aging Geode low-power chip, creating uncertainty for its use in products like future XO laptops made by One Laptop Per Child. There won't be a Geode successor and the company has no core microarchitecture planned to replace the chip, AMD executives said.`
`16:25.51`	`RST38h`	`One Geode less =)`
`16:25.52`	`rm_you`	`I can reverse engineer this :P`
`16:26.09`	`Myrtti`	`because really maemo touch screen really is the perfect platform for such an app`
`16:26.17`	`rm_you`	`Myrtti: would this knitchart be ok, if i just reverse engineered it and coded it up in maemo?`
`16:26.37`	`rm_you`	`cause I don't know everything i would need to know to code this otherwise`
`16:26.44`	`rm_you`	`unless my GF did all the specifications :P`
`16:26.57`	`Myrtti`	`rm_you: that would be perfect for me :-)`
`16:27.01`	`lcuk`	`my cats once reverse engineered a knitted jumper.`
`16:27.08`	`RST38h`	`TTG home`
`16:27.24`	`Stskeeps`	`surprisingly ubuntu has no knitting-related things`
`16:27.25`	`rm_you`	`the only thing i can read is like, k5 k2tog p5`
`16:27.28`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: Have you judged and executed them under the rules of DMCA?`
`16:27.38`	`Myrtti`	`Stskeeps: hold on`
`16:27.51`	`rm_you`	`i dont understand most of these acronyms yet :P`
`16:27.55`	`lcuk`	`nahhh knitting apps exist`
`16:28.04`	`Myrtti`	`Stskeeps: http://myrtti.fi/blog/2008/12/19/dear-santhhhhplanet-ubuntu/`
`16:28.08`	`lcuk`	`RST38h, not at all, hacking is permitted in my household`
`16:28.09`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk)`
`16:28.15`	`RST38h`	`lcuk: pity =)`
`16:28.15`	`rm_you`	`Myrtti: I'll look into it though`
`16:28.18`	`Myrtti`	`but that has idiotic 3D thing`
`16:28.23`	`rm_you`	`my maemo buildbox is still down`
`16:28.25`	`rm_you`	`but i has a new server`
`16:28.29`	`rm_you`	`so i can make it do the builds`
`16:28.42`	`slonopotamus`	`Stskeeps, do you have/plan to have cups in mer?`
`16:28.43`	`Stskeeps`	`rm_you: you can always grab a Mer VMDK/VDI and code for hildon+mer gtk there ;)`
`16:28.48`	`Stskeeps`	`slonopotamus: er. apt-get install cups.`
`16:28.49`	`Stskeeps`	`:P`
`16:29.13`	`slonopotamus`	`will i be able to print web pages then?`
`16:29.25`	`rm_you`	`:P`
`16:29.27`	`johnx`	`slonopotamus, cups is easy, but it's up to programmers to decide whether they want to depend on it`
`16:29.28`	`Stskeeps`	`slonopotamus: no clue, maybe`
`16:29.44`	`rm_you`	`Myrtti: well, i'll look into it`
`16:29.45`	`Jaffa`	`wazd: using images for the headings is pretty nasty...`
`16:29.49`	`rm_you`	`Myrtti: are you on Ravelry?`
`16:29.51`	`Stskeeps`	`boots up virtualbox`
`16:30.01`	`slonopotamus`	`johnx, hmm. you ship browser preinstalled`
`16:30.08`	`Stskeeps`	`nop, we don't`
`16:30.09`	`Stskeeps`	`(atm)`
`16:30.10`	`johnx`	`slonopotamus, not yet`
`16:30.17`	`rm_you`	`anyway, new server, woo:`
`16:30.17`	`rm_you`	`Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on`
`16:30.18`	`rm_you`	`/dev/md/0 4.0T 1.3T 2.7T 32% /media/md0`
`16:30.29`	`johnx`	`jeez`
`16:30.42`	`rm_you`	`^_^`
`16:30.48`	`johnx`	`rm_you, can I get a shell account? :>`
`16:30.51`	`rm_you`	`lol`
`16:30.54`	`rm_you`	`if you want :P`
`16:31.01`	`slonopotamus`	`hmm. then i misunderstood recent mer video`
`16:31.12`	`rm_you`	`k, set up :P`
`16:31.24`	`johnx`	`slonopotamus, the midori browser is easily downloaded`
`16:32.00`	`wazd`	`Jaffa: well, there is still alt-text if you have images turned off`
`16:32.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`wonders what the mailing list spam is about.`
`16:33.23`	`rm_you`	`brb shower`
`16:34.40`	`Stskeeps`	`Myrtti: ok, requires GL, not that easy :P`
`16:38.07`	`Stskeeps`	`maybe mesa or whatever would do the trick, but don't have it setup atm`
`16:39.12`	`Stskeeps`	`other than that it would probably build fine and work.`
`16:42.52`	`*** join/#maemo madha1 (n=Administ@122.172.61.248)`
`16:44.48`	`Stskeeps`	`qwerty12: i'll generate new jffs2 over night and test the mtdblock thing works`
`16:45.04`	`qwerty12`	`Nice. fingers crossed`
`16:45.45`	`radic_`	`hi qwerty12`
`16:45.53`	`qwerty12`	`hi radic_`
`16:48.10`	`*** join/#maemo Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun)`
`16:49.27`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Urg, Jussi's making the maemo.nokia.com thing more confusing. <_<`
`16:49.40`	`johnx`	`nice :)`
`16:49.42`	`X-Fade`	`Indeed.`
`16:49.59`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I'm not sure how Talk wormed its way in there, either.`
`16:50.22`	`rm_you`	`lol`
`16:50.51`	`GeneralAntilles`	`We need at least one head involved who understands all aspects of the relationship between maemo.nokia.com, Maemo@Forum Nokia and maemo.org and I don't think we have that. >_>`
`16:51.19`	`GeneralAntilles`	`What ships an i.MX these days?`
`16:51.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`They pop up a lot in Linux-on-ARM development stuff.`
`16:51.44`	`Stskeeps`	`freescale?`
`16:51.48`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Yeah`
`16:51.56`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Freescale's OMAP equivalent`
`16:51.59`	`Stskeeps`	`i think it's the upcoming "arm netbook" stuff`
`16:52.25`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Well, they have OMAP1 and OMAP2 equivalent stuff, too.`
`16:52.26`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I.MX`
`16:52.35`	`GeneralAntilles`	`considers updating the page.`
`16:53.21`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Anybody else catch the new OMAP36x chips on TI's site?`
`16:56.15`	`*** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=valerio@bl11-139-99.dsl.telepac.pt)`
`16:57.06`	`*** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69)`
`16:57.19`	`Stskeeps`	`ponders idly if the nokia kernel things for powervr included mbx stuff too, like, basic support`
`16:57.31`	`Stskeeps`	`i know it needs libraries, but still`
`16:58.09`	`*** join/#maemo Dado_ (n=chatzill@dslb-084-056-226-149.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`16:58.31`	`Dado_`	`hi`
`16:58.33`	`slonopotamus`	`hehe`
`16:58.45`	`slonopotamus`	`i have xclock working :)`
`16:59.02`	`AndrewFBlack`	`qwerty12, I added that thing you showed me on Personal Launcher along with a couple of other things I found to wiki http://wiki.maemo.org/Personal_Menu_tips_and_tricks`
`16:59.12`	`*** join/#maemo sergio (n=sergio@fanzine.igalia.com)`
`16:59.13`	`qwerty12`	`Stskeeps, imho basic support is http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/946765.diff. Only powers the chip, nothing else...`
`16:59.16`	`*** join/#maemo ezadkiel_mB (n=chatzill@net1.senecac.on.ca)`
`16:59.33`	`qwerty12`	`AndrewFBlack, wicked, the page is looking good.`
`17:00.18`	`AndrewFBlack`	`qwerty12, thanks`
`17:02.19`	`Dado_`	`can i ask something about repositories on a N800 or is this the wrong channel?`
`17:02.31`	`johnx`	`Dado_, go for it :)`
`17:02.39`	`lcuk`	`why in gods name can i not copy n paste from a .doc to the wiki, i wanted to start to get some documentation for the liqbase library up but it keeps really seriously fscking with the layout in major ways that hurt my head :'(`
`17:02.50`	`Dado_`	`thx :-)`
`17:02.59`	`johnx`	`#maemo: the first, last and only channel about the Nokia Internet Tablets`
`17:03.14`	`lcuk`	`#mer, #liqbase :)`
`17:03.23`	`Dado_`	`i'm new to n800 and have problem with repos...`
`17:03.34`	`johnx`	`lcuk, ...except for those other ones`
`17:03.48`	`Dado_`	`i have the offical repo and the extra repo...`
`17:04.01`	`Dado_`	`in extra there are some libs that i want to install`
`17:04.12`	`Dado_`	`but i cant find it via programm manager`
`17:04.20`	`Dado_`	`repo is active`
`17:04.32`	`Dado_`	`any hint?`
`17:04.58`	`johnx`	`Dado_, only packages with Section: user/* show up in application manager`
`17:05.05`	`X-Fade`	`Dado_: The lib is probably not meant to be installed by users. Use apt-get to install it..`
`17:05.07`	`johnx`	`if you know the lib you want, use apt-get install libfoo`
`17:05.48`	`Dado_`	`hmm ok`
`17:06.20`	`rm_you`	`Myrtti: did you say if you were on Ravelry?`
`17:06.26`	`Dado_`	`i wanted to install libwww-ssl0 but there are deps with wwwssl (or something like that)`
`17:06.33`	`qwerty12`	`Stskeeps, god, that red on the sprints page is killing me :P`
`17:06.39`	`Dado_`	`libssl i think`
`17:06.45`	`johnx`	`qwerty12, workin' on that :P`
`17:06.54`	`qwerty12`	`hehe, nice one johnx :D`
`17:07.12`	`Dado_`	`i need the lib to for streaming from "Mediaportal"`
`17:07.19`	`*** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@p5B2045D0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`17:07.22`	`Stskeeps`	`qwerty12: sorry :P`
`17:07.28`	`Stskeeps`	`qwerty12: got a better but urgent colour?`
`17:07.41`	`johnx`	`mauve`
`17:07.48`	`X-Fade`	`Stskeeps: He propably wants pink ;)`
`17:07.57`	`qwerty12`	`A nicer red :D.`
`17:08.04`	`rm_you`	`Stskeeps: 33FF00 :P`
`17:08.12`	`johnx`	`naah, we just need to wrap the text in a <blink>`
`17:08.30`	`johnx`	`and have some nice <marquee> URGENT! messages at the top`
`17:08.45`	`Stskeeps`	`qwerty12: go ahead and edit :P`
`17:09.03`	`qwerty12`	`Stskeeps, re a mce clone, I really don't like the idea of one in python...`
`17:09.17`	`qwerty12`	`Stskeeps, hah, I'm terrible at wiki's :P`
`17:09.20`	`Stskeeps`	`qwerty12: well, any language will do.`
`17:09.27`	`Dado_`	`will apt-get solve depencies in any way?`
`17:09.29`	`Stskeeps`	`qwerty12: as long as it's more readable than powerlaunch`
`17:09.44`	`Stskeeps`	`and it not being C`
`17:10.01`	`johnx`	`Dado_, it will attempt to solve any deps it can`
`17:10.14`	`qwerty12`	`would prefer one being C (despite hardly understanding it). Speed is nice for a system daemon.`
`17:10.38`	`Dado_`	`strange, libwww-ssl0 tells me that it needs libssl. And i thing this is in extra, too`
`17:10.46`	`Stskeeps`	`qwerty12: well, ok, i mean systemui being python or whatever`
`17:10.49`	`*** join/#maemo lardman (n=vircuser@78.145.134.29)`
`17:10.50`	`Stskeeps`	`mce is a facilitator`
`17:11.02`	`Dado_`	`but it doesn't get the libssl`
`17:11.38`	`johnx`	`Dado_, it might need a certain version of libssl`
`17:11.50`	`Dado_`	`did anybody tried to install "mampt" on n800/810`
`17:12.11`	`Dado_`	`yes, but i can only have one at the same time, or?`
`17:12.34`	`johnx`	`just explaining...not providing a solution`
`17:12.47`	`Dado_`	`i know ;-)`
`17:12.56`	`johnx`	`where is mampt from?`
`17:13.41`	`Dado_`	`mampt: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=618`
`17:14.06`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lardman, what DSP is on OMAP2?`
`17:14.44`	`Dado_`	`there are some dependencies for mampt, so i thought to install them before...`
`17:14.47`	`johnx`	`Dado_, did you try that 'click to install' link?`
`17:15.35`	`lardman`	`GeneralAntilles: TMS320C55xx`
`17:15.44`	`*** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@200.184.118.130)`
`17:15.51`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Same as the OMAP1?`
`17:15.59`	`lardman`	`yes, iirc`
`17:16.12`	`GeneralAntilles`	`220MHz, right?`
`17:16.45`	`lardman`	`yep`
`17:16.53`	`Dado_`	`johnx, im blind i do not find such a link...`
`17:17.02`	`lardman`	`GeneralAntilles: why's that?`
`17:17.13`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lardman, I'm fixing the OMAP wiki page.`
`17:17.20`	`johnx`	`Dado_, http://mompt.garage.maemo.org/mampt.htm`
`17:17.20`	`Dado_`	`.. or do you mean clicking to install through programmanager?`
`17:18.05`	`Dado_`	`i didn't tried it because of "Before installing the MaMPt application its necessary to install its requirements"`
`17:18.21`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Would it be appropriate to describe the PowerVR as a "GPU"?`
`17:18.25`	`Dado_`	`so i tried this first .... and failed :-(`
`17:18.43`	`lardman`	`johnx: what approach are we taking for Mer, use the DSP for audio out or move to ARM-side control via kernel + portaudio?`
`17:18.52`	`lardman`	`GeneralAntilles: yeah`
`17:19.02`	`GeneralAntilles`	`"2D/3D Graphics Accelerator" is a little awkward. ;)`
`17:19.07`	`lardman`	`:)`
`17:19.08`	`*** join/#maemo jgoss (n=josh@unaffiliated/jgoss)`
`17:19.12`	`johnx`	`lardman, anything that works. I think the the arm side would be prefered in that it's less finicky`
`17:19.28`	`lardman`	`that's also what will be used in Fremantle`
`17:19.44`	`johnx`	`and also what can be redistributed freely`
`17:19.51`	`johnx`	`and can be compatible with more ubuntu apps`
`17:19.51`	`lardman`	`yep`
`17:19.54`	`johnx`	`etc, etc, :)`
`17:20.06`	`lardman`	`will probably mean flashing a new kernel though...`
`17:20.34`	`johnx`	`lardman, some people are poking at kexec...solca and fanoush I believe`
`17:20.34`	`Stskeeps`	`that's fine`
`17:21.15`	`lardman`	`ok`
`17:21.41`	`rm_you`	`bbl`
`17:22.30`	`lardman`	`anyone got the diablo kernel source handy?`
`17:22.42`	`lardman`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:22.44`	`johnx`	`Dado_, could you do: apt-cache show libwww-ssl0 and see exactly what version of libssl it wants?`
`17:23.22`	`Dado_`	`just a second ...`
`17:23.49`	`qwerty12`	`lardman, sure it's diablo kernel source you want? There's no file called n810.c here.`
`17:24.15`	`qwerty12`	`In 2.6.21 anyway.`
`17:24.25`	`lardman`	`qwerty12: yeah, wanted to see if a kernel recompile was actually necessary`
`17:24.46`	`*** join/#maemo Gracana (n=Alex@141.114.207.51)`
`17:24.52`	`lardman`	`http://ftp.gnu.org/tmp/linux-libre-fsf2_2.6.28/linux-2.6.28/sound/soc/omap/n810.c`
`17:24.59`	`johnx`	`has anyone even managed to ouput sound from the arm side successfully?`
`17:25.02`	`lardman`	`it's in 2.6.27 onwards I think`
`17:25.13`	`lardman`	`the Android[people?`
`17:25.22`	`lardman`	`s/{/ /`
`17:25.30`	`lardman`	`can't type`
`17:25.33`	`johnx`	`I didn't realize they had...`
`17:25.38`	`Stskeeps`	`btw it seems like the nokia kernel might have ALSA driver for some of the SoC drivers`
`17:25.44`	`Stskeeps`	`not sure if n800 is in there`
`17:25.47`	`Stskeeps`	`as in, the new one`
`17:26.40`	`qwerty12`	`N800 users are getting fucked over from what I can remember. Dunno if anyone has made a n800 driver yet`
`17:26.49`	`Dado_`	`johnx: libwww-ssl0 wants libssl0.9.7`
`17:27.59`	`johnx`	`iiinteresting`
`17:28.07`	`johnx`	`looks like I have both installed without conflicting`
`17:28.13`	`johnx`	`0.9.7 and 0.9.8`
`17:28.14`	`*** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@83-215-234-121.stadt.stat.salzburg-online.at)`
`17:28.15`	`GeneralAntilles`	`If somebody wants to eyeball this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_OMAP`
`17:28.20`	`AndrewFBlack`	`Hey if I make a new icon I want to use with Personal Launcher where do I put it on tablet?`
`17:28.52`	`qwerty12`	`AndrewFBlack, /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/ is a good bet`
`17:28.54`	`Stskeeps`	`GeneralAntilles: so needs a NIT reference.. i mean, pandora is there and beagleboard..`
`17:29.12`	`Dado_`	`do you know how to install 0.9.7 parallel to 0.9.8?`
`17:29.18`	`qwerty12`	`AndrewFBlack, that folder wants 64x64 icons`
`17:29.36`	`Dado_`	`i even did not find the package name :-(`
`17:29.39`	`qwerty12`	`Dado_, just install it?`
`17:29.42`	`AndrewFBlack`	`ok thanks I made it as far as finding /usr/share/icons/hicolor/ just wasn't sure after that lol`
`17:30.12`	`*** join/#maemo zap (n=zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net)`
`17:30.16`	`johnx`	`Dado_, one sec`
`17:30.30`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Stskeeps, done.`
`17:31.00`	`lardman`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:31.14`	`lardman`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:31.21`	`Jaffa`	`Stskeeps: HAM's not working in snapshots? On device? What's the problem - I might recognise it, but I haven't got time to test it :(`
`17:32.05`	`Stskeeps`	`Jaffa: it works but it doesn't seem to show any repositories or lists, or allow installation`
`17:32.27`	`AndrewFBlack`	`qwerty12, do I need to do anything after putting file there?`
`17:32.42`	`Jaffa`	`Stskeeps: Right, then that's the lack of a network connection.`
`17:32.46`	`johnx`	`Dado_, open up application manager and look see if you have the 'tableteer' repo enabled`
`17:32.51`	`qwerty12`	`AndrewFBlack, run "gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor" as root`
`17:32.53`	`Stskeeps`	`Jaffa: ah.`
`17:32.54`	`Jaffa`	`Stskeeps: See the 'assume-connection' bit of the chroot install instructions.`
`17:33.01`	`Dado_`	`no i havent`
`17:33.05`	`Jaffa`	`Stskeeps: libconic is reporting "DISCONNECTED", so it doesn't do anything.`
`17:33.09`	`Dado_`	`i would know ;-)`
`17:33.22`	`Stskeeps`	`Jaffa: nice job telling me to rtfm, was well deserved :>`
`17:33.29`	`Dado_`	`i try to add this`
`17:33.39`	`Jaffa`	`Stskeeps: Well, I wasn't sure if it was just going to be a chroot issue ;-)`
`17:34.04`	`Jaffa`	`Stskeeps: What's the plan with icd/libconic/nm?`
`17:34.16`	`wazd`	`Is it possible to remove borders from here: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Wazd/Sandbox/Mer/Community`
`17:34.29`	`Dado_`	`johnx do you mean: http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/`
`17:34.36`	`Dado_`	`?`
`17:34.37`	`johnx`	`yup`
`17:34.40`	`Dado_`	`k`
`17:34.54`	`Jaffa`	`wazd: yes, border="0" on the table.`
`17:35.22`	`Jaffa`	`wazd: I think the heading's a bit big to use on the subpages, isn't it? And having to create an image for every page subtitle is going to be a pain for anyone but you`
`17:35.32`	`lardman`	`need to reboot, bbiam`
`17:36.03`	`Stskeeps`	`Jaffa: short-term, someone should write a dbus server that is a wrapper over NM dbus messages..`
`17:36.37`	`AndrewFBlack`	`qwerty12, thanks that worked`
`17:36.57`	`Stskeeps`	`Jaffa: since libconic is "just" a dbus wrapper`
`17:37.37`	`wazd`	`Jaffa: I've tried various things with "border" tag but nothing helps`
`17:37.37`	`Dado_`	`ok`
`17:37.45`	`Dado_`	`got it`
`17:38.00`	`Jaffa`	`wazd: hmm`
`17:38.11`	`*** join/#maemo lardman (n=simon@78.145.134.29)`
`17:39.28`	`Stskeeps`	`Jaffa: is there a standard setting where you can enable assume connection, or does that require red pill?`
`17:40.07`	`Stskeeps`	`like, if a user was to do it`
`17:40.13`	`Jaffa`	`Stskeeps: you have to put a line in ~/.osso/hildon-application-manager AFAICT`
`17:40.21`	`Stskeeps`	`k`
`17:40.21`	`Jaffa`	`There's no red-pill UI for it, I don't think`
`17:40.48`	`johnx`	`a job for start-hildon?`
`17:41.17`	`johnx`	`(yes, ugly, I know :) )`
`17:41.19`	`Jaffa`	`Maybe in the postinst of HAM (along with the migrate settings)`
`17:41.36`	`Jaffa`	`Actually, that wouldn't work`
`17:41.38`	`Stskeeps`	`Jaffa: well, at imaging time user doesn't exist, so :P`
`17:41.39`	`johnx`	`eep. I really don't like postinst touching things in$HOME`
`17:41.54`	`Jaffa`	`johnx: it already does in HAM - but that's upstream for you :-/`
`17:42.28`	`Jaffa`	`Stskeeps: indeed. Options are: 1) DBUS wrapper around nm; 2) Fake libconic which may or may not talk to nm; 3) fudge it in start-hildon`
`17:42.55`	`Jaffa`	`Some sh-fu required to not blat any other Red Pill settings, and ensure it doesn't add too many:`
`17:43.27`	`Jaffa`	`grep 'assume-connection 1' ~/.osso/hildon-application-manager \|\| echo 'assume-connection 1' >>~/.osso/hildon-application-manager`
`17:43.32`	`Dado_`	`johnx: i have included the repo, what now?`
`17:43.32`	`*** part/#maemo mk8 (n=torello@ip-212-138.sn1.eutelia.it)`
`17:43.48`	`Jaffa`	`johnx/Stskeeps: that line in start-hildon should do it`
`17:44.04`	`johnx`	`Dado_, that repo should have libssl0.9.7. apt-get install libssl0.9.7`
`17:44.51`	`*** join/#maemo Ciroip (n=Ciroippp@host211-39-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`17:44.51`	`johnx`	`Jaffa, will add now :)`
`17:46.13`	`*** join/#maemo andre__ (n=andre@f053154067.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`17:46.20`	`lardman`	`wishes he had enabled hash on shi sftp transfer`
`17:46.29`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: first-boot-wizard with 'users' compiled on armel yet?`
`17:46.39`	`johnx`	`Stskeeps, not yet`
`17:46.46`	`Stskeeps`	`alright`
`17:46.51`	`johnx`	`do you want it now?`
`17:46.59`	`Stskeeps`	`can wait till its done :P`
`17:47.12`	`johnx`	`it should be ok`
`17:47.20`	`*** join/#maemo fab (n=bellet@bellet.info)`
`17:47.57`	`AndrewFBlack`	`am I only person who wishes Personal Launcher icons could be just a little bigger lol`
`17:48.26`	`johnx`	`Stskeeps, going through the red-list. where should that incompatible bootmenu check be? early init.d or linuxrv?`
`17:48.34`	`johnx`	`*linuxrc`
`17:49.27`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: bootbasics, linuxrc doesnt get run if its not the right bootmenu :)`
`17:49.42`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: wazd was doing artwork, so we can just use the same thing splash uses`
`17:50.09`	`johnx`	`great. I'll put something in and we can change the art later`
`17:50.37`	`Stskeeps`	`it is the number one cause of most bugs we see so :P`
`17:51.03`	`Stskeeps`	`Jaffa: works with assume-connection`
`17:51.19`	`Jaffa`	`Stskeeps: cool; sorry I didn't document it as a limitation more clearly`
`17:51.25`	`Stskeeps`	`Jaffa: hehe`
`17:51.32`	`Jaffa`	`Stskeeps: on the plus pont, the line from the chroot install instructions can come out now :)`
`17:51.34`	`Stskeeps`	`looks at his apartment`
`17:51.44`	`Stskeeps`	`needs to clean it.`
`17:52.32`	`Stskeeps`	`i find it kinda scary this mer thing is starting to feel like an actual usable OS :P`
`17:52.36`	`johnx`	`grrr...I think lshal calls touchscreens 'touchpad'`
`17:52.46`	`johnx`	`does it call touchpads (on laptops) the same thing?`
`17:52.47`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: wonder why synaptics likes it..`
`17:53.10`	`johnx`	`yeah, author of the driver probably never had something with a touchscreen`
`17:53.16`	`johnx`	`be nice to not make the same mistake :)`
`17:53.43`	`johnx`	`sigh...`
`17:54.05`	`AndrewFBlack`	`Stskeeps, Is there an easy way to install it yet I hate lol been to scared to install it so far`
`17:54.07`	`johnx`	`lshal \| grep -i touchscreen will work on n800 and zaurus because the 'product name' is right`
`17:54.34`	`Stskeeps`	`AndrewFBlack: wait for sunday and then it is :P`
`17:54.48`	`AndrewFBlack`	`awsome been waiting`
`17:54.55`	`johnx`	`both zaurus and n800 call their touchscreens, touchpads >_<`
`17:55.08`	`johnx`	`if this is a HAL limitation I'll smack someone with a trout`
`17:55.14`	`*** join/#maemo Gracana (n=Alex@141.114.207.51)`
`17:55.32`	`johnx`	`thoughts? opinions? anyone?`
`17:55.38`	`Stskeeps`	`sec`
`17:55.41`	`johnx`	`sure`
`17:57.23`	`Stskeeps`	`joystick detection maybe`
`17:57.23`	`Stskeeps`	`:P`
`17:57.40`	`johnx`	`huh?`
`17:57.54`	`Stskeeps`	`just noticed a thing about touchpad/joystick/mouse detection`
`17:58.00`	`Jaffa`	`Are there any photos of it running on a zaurus? Is the performance acceptable? Is it viable?`
`17:58.28`	`johnx`	`Jaffa, screenshots only. for some things, not browser, yes, I intend to give it a darn good try.`
`17:58.39`	`Jaffa`	`wonders about an old Psion netBook port... a 200MHz StrongARM may be pushing it. But then, it's 770-quality hardware. RAM might be a limitation, can't remember how much it's got.`
`17:58.53`	`Stskeeps`	`Jaffa: well, has to be armv5t at this point :P`
`17:58.55`	`johnx`	`64MB of RAM is painful`
`18:00.16`	`*** join/#maemo cjdavis (n=cjdavis@cpe-71-67-99-208.cinci.res.rr.com)`
`18:00.41`	`Jaffa`	`Stskeeps: good, would hate to think it's something I might try ;-)`
`18:00.43`	`johnx`	`a strongarm is armv4 so it can't run Debian or Ubuntu EABI binaries. also the 2.6 kernel port for strongarm is kind of shaky so you'd either half to clean up some drivers or run with 2.4 and an older distro`
`18:00.56`	`Jaffa`	`Best forgotten.`
`18:01.06`	`johnx`	`'fraid so sighs`
`18:01.17`	`Jaffa`	`Roll on a light weight modern ARM netbook (cough Foleo cough)`
`18:01.55`	`johnx`	`(re: zaurus collie, psion netbook) it would be neat, but the man hours to put into it are better spent at a minimum wage job earning money to pickup a used n800`
`18:02.33`	`Jaffa`	`netbook's a nicer format for doing "real" work on than an N8x0, though (having just got mine out to be a monitoring serial console for my media PC when X/kernel [not sure] crashes)`
`18:02.35`	`Jaffa`	`homes`
`18:03.24`	`johnx`	`the clamshell zaurus is a very nice platform for working on the train or at a coffee shop.`
`18:04.37`	`johnx`	`ok, I'm going to do $(lshal \| grep -i touchscreen) for now unless someone hates it or has a better idea`
`18:05.48`	`Stskeeps`	`fair enough`
`18:06.10`	`johnx`	`I'll put a big FIXME above it`
`18:07.14`	`*** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=slonopot@80.90.119.73)`
`18:08.04`	`Dado_`	`johnx: i got the libs intalled. thx for help. But now i have another question:`
`18:08.14`	`johnx`	`sure :)`
`18:08.49`	`Dado_`	`i now want to install mampt via "click to install" but the browser opens only a noew window with the content, no progmanager`
`18:10.00`	`Dado_`	`what to do?`
`18:10.00`	`johnx`	`download the armel deb from the downloads page on that site`
`18:10.00`	`Dado_`	`ok and the install via apt-get? or click on it via filemanager?`
`18:10.02`	`*** join/#maemo sven-tek (i=linux@p508EEFB6.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:10.05`	`johnx`	`just click in file manager (or use dpkg -i if you want to)`
`18:10.27`	`*** join/#maemo simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at)`
`18:11.00`	`johnx`	`the whole point of .install 'click to install' files is to avoid all this :/ most of the time it's actually simple...`
`18:14.25`	`Dado_`	`ahh ok`
`18:14.46`	`Dado_`	`ok i have still problems with the req libmompt`
`18:14.58`	`johnx`	`missing? won't install?`
`18:15.17`	`Dado_`	`i installed 0.3 but installing of mampt says it it missed`
`18:15.25`	`Dado_`	`strange`
`18:17.02`	`*** join/#maemo x29a (n=x29a@unaffiliated/x29a)`
`18:19.22`	`johnx`	`what version of libmompt does mampt want?`
`18:20.05`	`*** join/#maemo vobiscum (n=daniel@200.222.15.16)`
`18:20.54`	`*** join/#maemo Pebby_ (n=PebbyWeb@c-24-5-47-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`18:21.24`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Hrm, I think I missed my deadline for the community highlights. . . .`
`18:21.33`	`Dado_`	`i dont find it, but i now have to go. Can i ask you another time?`
`18:21.52`	`johnx`	`Dado_, sure. I'm always here :D`
`18:22.02`	`Dado_`	`Oh! ;-)`
`18:22.25`	`Dado_`	`now cinema with girlfriend has priority! ;-)`
`18:22.37`	`Dado_`	`bye till next time and thx again`
`18:22.40`	`johnx`	`heh...fair enough. My wife's already asleep`
`18:22.43`	`johnx`	`'later`
`18:24.05`	`lardman`	`hmm, maemo-launcher is taking ~50% cpu, Xomap ~20% and tar&gzip about 15%`
`18:24.22`	`lardman`	`while untarring the snapshot archive for Mer`
`18:24.35`	`lardman`	`I wonder why the usage by Xomap and maemo-launcher?`
`18:24.39`	`johnx`	`is something updating on the screen?`
`18:24.57`	`lardman`	`yeah, terminal is showing the progress`
`18:25.03`	`lardman`	`it's the installation tool`
`18:25.09`	`johnx`	`:)`
`18:25.11`	`johnx`	`there's your answer`
`18:25.40`	`lardman`	`still interesting it takes so much`
`18:25.45`	`lardman`	`and what about maemo-launcher?`
`18:26.12`	`johnx`	`a lot of things run inside maemo-launcher`
`18:26.42`	`lardman`	`yeah, but must be something specific to the installation I guess`
`18:27.07`	`*** join/#maemo ijon_ (n=ijon@dhcp218-262.yandex.ru)`
`18:28.42`	`AndrewFBlack`	`You know its the simple applications that makes me wish I had an iphone sometimes. Like a Movie Show Times Application. Most movie sites run like crap on my n810 really need a barbone script or a native app`
`18:28.55`	`lardman`	`when you shut down, and you get the Nokia logo, is the bg not quite the same colour as the bg around the logo, or is that just me?`
`18:29.10`	`lcuk`	`AndrewFBlack, :) i love simple applications`
`18:29.13`	`qwerty12`	`It's set by the current theme`
`18:29.17`	`lardman`	`AndrewFBlack: you could write your own, it looked pretty simple`
`18:29.23`	`lardman`	`qwerty12: ah, ok`
`18:29.41`	`johnx`	`AndrewFBlack, try google or a google widget`
`18:30.25`	`johnx`	`jeez. there's movies out I haven't even heard of O_o`
`18:30.27`	`lardman`	`hmm, am getting "Please check username" dialog repeatedly`
`18:30.39`	`johnx`	`lardman, what are you putting in for it?`
`18:30.43`	`AndrewFBlack`	`lardman, wish I knew how to program and I would`
`18:30.43`	`lardman`	`the name I have in there is "simon"`
`18:31.02`	`lardman`	`AndrewFBlack: I think there was a thread on itt, or was that you?`
`18:31.16`	`AndrewFBlack`	`I think I had one a while ago`
`18:31.36`	`johnx`	`lardman, try something else see if it works`
`18:31.45`	`lardman`	`Just tried "si" same problem`
`18:31.58`	`lardman`	`bbiam`
`18:33.25`	`johnx`	`lardman, when you get back, did you include any punctuation in your full name (not username)`
`18:34.00`	`slonopotamus`	`hehe`
`18:39.34`	`*** join/#maemo tulkastaldo (n=tulkas@24-247-227-10.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com)`
`18:43.39`	`*** join/#maemo vobiscum (n=daniel@ns4.fpf.br)`
`18:44.09`	*** join/#maemo straind` (n=stupidpe@n080s062.bbr1.shentel.net)
`18:47.46`	`lcuk`	`feels a bit better starting to document and clarify the library bounds`
`18:48.00`	`lcuk`	`i should be able to actually start moving my apps into it v soon :)`
`18:48.10`	*** join/#maemo `straind (n=stupidpe@n080s062.bbr1.shentel.net)
`18:48.46`	`lardman`	`johnx: no punctuation other than 2 capital letters and a space between first and surname`
`18:48.57`	`johnx`	`really, really odd`
`18:48.58`	`*** join/#maemo des^ (n=nnscript@rstk-5f76f467.pool.einsundeins.de)`
`18:49.27`	`AndrewFBlack`	`I need to go buy a book and learn python I guess`
`18:49.29`	`johnx`	`lardman, is this a fresh 0.6 or a later snapshot?`
`18:49.38`	`lardman`	`hmm, just pressed cancel, not much happening now`
`18:49.45`	`lardman`	`johnx: fresh snapshot`
`18:49.51`	`johnx`	`ah`
`18:50.04`	`johnx`	`ok...that makes things a bit different`
`18:50.06`	`johnx`	`hmm`
`18:50.36`	`johnx`	`lardman, would you be willing to pop the battery, reboot into maemo and chroot into mer and install a new first-boot-wizard once I cook it?`
`18:50.42`	`johnx`	`should be about 10 minutes`
`18:50.48`	`lardman`	`sure`
`18:51.29`	`*** join/#maemo straind2 (n=stupidpe@n080s062.bbr1.shentel.net)`
`18:51.36`	`lardman`	`popped and rebooting`
`18:51.43`	`*** join/#maemo christefano (n=christo@cpe-76-168-200-180.socal.res.rr.com)`
`18:54.57`	`*** join/#maemo straind3 (n=stupidpe@n080s062.bbr1.shentel.net)`
`18:58.07`	`lardman`	`johnx: just going to eat some supper, will be back in a bit`
`18:58.49`	`*** join/#maemo daperl (n=daperl@cpe-66-74-209-116.san.res.rr.com)`
`18:59.21`	`Stskeeps`	`lo daperl`
`18:59.59`	`daperl`	`yo`
`19:00.50`	`*** join/#maemo greentux (n=lemke@BAA58df.baa.pppool.de)`
`19:01.22`	`Stskeeps`	`sup?`
`19:02.27`	`daperl`	`well, is dsme considered a secondary watchdog? if so, it's dead before i kexec -e`
`19:02.50`	`Stskeeps`	`yes, it does watchdog stuff`
`19:03.14`	`Stskeeps`	`as in, it kicks the omap watchdog`
`19:03.44`	`daperl`	`what is it to "kick a watchdog?"`
`19:03.57`	`johnx`	`basically the watchdog counts down`
`19:04.06`	`johnx`	`if it doesn't get reset, the device is rebooted`
`19:04.27`	`johnx`	`so dsme resets ("kicks") it every several seconds`
`19:05.02`	`johnx`	`more "dead man's switch" than "watchdog" IMNSHO`
`19:05.13`	`daperl`	`so i shouldn't kill dsme before i kexec -e?`
`19:05.25`	`johnx`	`that would certainly help`
`19:05.33`	`johnx`	`did you enable no-lifeguard-reset?`
`19:06.17`	`Stskeeps`	`daperl: my hint was regarding simply resetting it manually just before kexec`
`19:06.20`	`Stskeeps`	`so it has 60 seconds to boot up`
`19:07.56`	`daperl`	`yeah, i don't know the abc's of this stuff, but let me see if i understood your last statement`
`19:09.59`	`gladiac`	`http://www.csync.org/maemo/ ;)`
`19:12.16`	`*** join/#maemo MaceN800 (n=MaceN800@rancorous.net)`
`19:12.30`	`Stskeeps`	`daperl: basically echo 60 > /sys/devices/platform/retu-watchdog/period`
`19:12.36`	`daperl`	`well, i actually don't understand. but i think i could. feel free to just talk kernel-boot at me`
`19:12.54`	`MaceN800`	`hm`
`19:13.30`	`Stskeeps`	`it will reset the watchdog just enough time as to allow a bootup :P`
`19:13.37`	`MaceN800`	`hm... this sucks`
`19:13.55`	`Stskeeps`	`MaceN800: mm?`
`19:14.00`	`Stskeeps`	`boston legal got cancelled?`
`19:14.05`	`MaceN800`	`yeah`
`19:14.19`	`MaceN800`	`it started to suck by the 4th season anyways`
`19:14.32`	`*** join/#maemo pdz- (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa)`
`19:15.42`	`daperl`	`so, even though kexec -e is starting a new kernel, i want to make sure that the hardware doesn't reset while i'm trying to do this?`
`19:15.52`	`johnx`	`exactly`
`19:15.59`	`*** join/#maemo Alendit_ (n=alt@mnch-4d043b97.pool.mediaWays.net)`
`19:16.10`	`johnx`	`the watchdog is a physical chip`
`19:16.22`	`*** join/#maemo disco_stu (n=wrt54gl@190.216.32.136)`
`19:16.28`	`Alendit_`	`hi, can someone explain, how do i make a boot item for bootmenu, so i can install mer on my sd card?`
`19:16.56`	`*** join/#maemo geaaru (n=geaaru@host198-209-dynamic.50-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`19:17.03`	`MaceN800`	`there are a ton of sites that will explain it`
`19:17.10`	`MaceN800`	`grey's anatomy is getting rather out there`
`19:17.11`	`Alendit_`	`yeah, where`
`19:17.23`	`daperl`	`ah, i thought it was just software with interrupts`
`19:17.34`	`Stskeeps`	`Alendit_: ok, did you install mer through the installer?`
`19:17.53`	`Alendit_`	`no, in wiki is said it doesn't play well with a sd card`
`19:17.59`	`Stskeeps`	`no, that's not what it says`
`19:18.14`	`Stskeeps`	`it says, don't play nice with clone-to-SD, which is when you copy your maemo to a SD card :P`
`19:18.24`	`RST38h`	`johnx: afaik watchdog is a circuit inside OMAP2`
`19:18.42`	`RST38h`	`johnx: basically a countdown timer plugged into the reset line`
`19:18.47`	`johnx`	`RST38h, going for concept not specifics :P`
`19:19.03`	`MaceN800`	`heh`
`19:19.03`	`daperl`	`so, i keep dsme alive and have it send the watchdog a "stay alive for 60 seconds message"?`
`19:19.03`	`Alendit_`	`and this is what i mend`
`19:19.05`	`johnx`	`lardman, I think I have a first-boot-wizard that works`
`19:19.44`	`radic`	`dpkg want's root privilegs in the scratchbox`
`19:19.46`	`Stskeeps`	`Alendit_: alright. - and you have that?`
`19:20.01`	`Alendit_`	`Stskeeps, yes, i cloned my os to sd`
`19:20.06`	`radic`	`Stskeeps: can you help me?`
`19:20.16`	`johnx`	`radic, fakeroot dpkg`
`19:20.26`	`Stskeeps`	`radic: if you do my linear algebra homework`
`19:20.32`	`Alendit_`	`now i want to do the same with mer`
`19:20.39`	`johnx`	`daperl, kill dsme last and also use that 'echo ...' line Stskeeps gave you`
`19:20.56`	`johnx`	`Alendit_, let me paste up my mer.item. one moment`
`19:20.56`	`radic`	`Stskeeps: I can try it`
`19:21.12`	`Alendit_`	`kk`
`19:21.15`	`daperl`	`i'll give it a try`
`19:21.31`	`Stskeeps`	`Alendit_: you'll also a .item for your cloned to SD maemo`
`19:21.34`	`Stskeeps`	`+need`
`19:21.52`	`Alendit_`	`i didn't user this bootloader`
`19:21.58`	`Alendit_`	`*use`
`19:22.03`	`radic`	`thx johnx`
`19:22.10`	`MaceN800`	`at least the n800`
`19:22.11`	`Alendit_`	`it was an older version, there was no /etc/bootloader.d`
`19:22.36`	`johnx`	`Alendit_, do you have a /mnt/initfs/bootmenu.sh ?`
`19:22.39`	`*** join/#maemo FunkyPenguin (n=FunkyPen@opensuse/member/FunkyPenguin)`
`19:22.40`	`MaceN800`	`can use my g1`
`19:22.41`	`Stskeeps`	`Alendit_: yes, i know, and you need to use the deb bootmenu we point to, to run mer, else it will self-destruct :P`
`19:22.55`	`Alendit_`	`my mnt ist empty`
`19:23.06`	`johnx`	`actually, I'll be putting in that self destruct presently...`
`19:23.07`	`Alendit_`	`i know`
`19:23.13`	`Alendit_`	`thats why i installed this new loader`
`19:23.21`	`Stskeeps`	`ok, so you have - good`
`19:23.21`	`Stskeeps`	`sec`
`19:23.22`	`Alendit_`	`and now i need an .item file`
`19:23.26`	`FunkyPenguin`	`just as a piece of packaging news for people - http://lizards.opensuse.org/2009/01/27/build-maemo-apps-with-opensuse-buildservice-it-works/`
`19:23.37`	`*** join/#maemo ezadkiel_mB (n=chatzill@net1.senecac.on.ca)`
`19:23.58`	`Stskeeps`	`FunkyPenguin: does it build for Mer yet? ;)`
`19:24.33`	`johnx`	`FunkyPenguin, so you feed it debian source packages or something else?`
`19:24.51`	`FunkyPenguin`	`Stskeeps: if the mer sdk repo is available then yes it will`
`19:25.13`	`Stskeeps`	`Alendit_: http://rafb.net/p/k0E93s77.html is an example .item for maemo SD`
`19:25.19`	`Alendit_`	`thx`
`19:25.33`	`Alendit_`	`why this isn't in wiki, actually?`
`19:25.40`	`Stskeeps`	`feel free to document it ..`
`19:25.45`	`Alendit_`	`kk`
`19:26.25`	`Stskeeps`	`Alendit_: are you intending to use a full SD for Mer?`
`19:26.25`	`johnx`	`Alendit_, and here's one for booting mer: http://rafb.net/p/S6l8ib53.html`
`19:26.41`	`FunkyPenguin`	`johnx: im not the one who did it just passing the news on so i cant tell exactly`
`19:26.42`	`Alendit_`	`Stskeeps, yes, why?`
`19:26.53`	`MaceN800`	`wow... only in hollywood could you replace every single internal organ`
`19:26.59`	`MaceN800`	`and have no problems`
`19:27.00`	`Stskeeps`	`Alendit_: good, then use installer and select "simple" and it'll make your item for you`
`19:27.04`	`MaceN800`	`i mean seriously everything`
`19:27.10`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Anybody have any clues about OMAP36x?`
`19:27.11`	`MaceN800`	`liver.. lungs.. heart`
`19:27.29`	`Alendit_`	`would it also format my sd? i quite fucked up my system so i need a reinstall`
`19:27.32`	`FunkyPenguin`	`johnx: if you would like more info pop into #opensuse-buildservice or i'll ask someone to do a more detailed post`
`19:27.37`	`Stskeeps`	`Alendit_: yeah, the SD you select to`
`19:27.55`	`johnx`	`FunkyPenguin, it's probably up there...I was just curious if someone knew the answer right off`
`19:27.58`	`Alendit_`	`Stskeeps, ok, thx`
`19:28.09`	`johnx`	`FunkyPenguin, I'll read all about it later. thanks for sharing :)`
`19:28.16`	`FunkyPenguin`	`np`
`19:28.17`	`*** join/#maemo Passeli (n=passeli@85.23.73.223)`
`19:28.38`	`daperl`	`is there any way to get debug info from kexec -e?`
`19:29.03`	`Stskeeps`	`Alendit_: and then when it dies after asking for root pasword, run 'refresh_bootmenu.d' from a root shell`
`19:29.48`	`*** join/#maemo vobiscum (n=daniel@201.90.252.244)`
`19:29.54`	`*** join/#maemo dl9pf (n=dl9pf@opensuse/member/dl9pf)`
`19:30.00`	`MaceN800`	`hm`
`19:31.45`	`johnx`	`wow! if this opensuse cross-build thing actually works it's pretty interesting`
`19:31.57`	`dl9pf`	`it works`
`19:32.00`	`dl9pf`	`;)`
`19:32.04`	`RST38h`	`back`
`19:32.17`	`RST38h`	`opensuse on NIT? why?`
`19:32.26`	`johnx`	`RST38h, you missed it. hit your scrollback`
`19:33.01`	`johnx`	`I mainly wonder if it can actually build any debian source package that will build natively`
`19:33.15`	`johnx`	`usually cross builders have a habit of being close-but-not-quite`
`19:33.45`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: as soon as it hits something needing emulation..`
`19:33.56`	`dl9pf`	`it does - its using qemu in a similar way than scratchbox`
`19:34.07`	`johnx`	`Stskeeps, it uses qemu. they show it chrooting into a debian arm install from x86`
`19:34.15`	`Stskeeps`	`k`
`19:35.03`	`dl9pf`	`Stskeeps: btw. thanks for helping with the dsc yesterday ;)`
`19:35.10`	`*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk)`
`19:35.15`	`Stskeeps`	`i helped with a dsc yesterday?`
`19:36.43`	`dl9pf`	`or sisto ?`
`19:36.46`	`MaceN800`	`haha`
`19:37.06`	`lcuk`	`whats the best way of writing wiki pages? why cant i just make something simle and wysiwyg in word and copy n paste`
`19:37.08`	`MaceN800`	`only in a tv show can you relace like 4 internal organs and survive`
`19:37.09`	`MaceN800`	`hahaha`
`19:37.47`	`johnx`	`lcuk, because the world is a horrible place`
`19:37.50`	`lcuk`	`mace, doctors in america removed 8 organs from a woman this morning!`
`19:38.01`	`MaceN800`	`seriously?`
`19:38.10`	`lcuk`	`johnx, i had the liqbase_library_overview sorted in word`
`19:38.15`	`lcuk`	`yeah mace`
`19:38.20`	`dl9pf`	`if you want some more info about the maemo/opensuse build service thing, then you can visit us @ opensuse-arm`
`19:38.42`	`johnx`	`dl9pf, I should do some more reading first :)`
`19:38.48`	`lcuk`	`MaceN800, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/4362780/American-woman-gives-birth-to-live-octuplets.html`
`19:38.48`	`*** join/#maemo Guest8803_195 (n=89523af6@chathostplus.com)`
`19:38.53`	`johnx`	`hmm...maybe I'll lurk though`
`19:39.47`	`lcuk`	`copy n paste from word should try to retain formatting - maybe i should make something`
`19:40.08`	`johnx`	`lcuk, the problem is wiki formatting isn't wysiwyg`
`19:40.09`	`MaceN800`	`i said organs`
`19:40.15`	`MaceN800`	`not organisms`
`19:40.27`	`lcuk`	`johnx, could be wordpad, i only do simple editing and a bit of indenting`
`19:40.33`	`lcuk`	`but its so difficult`
`19:40.57`	`lcuk`	`MaceN800, the organs were transplanted into viable donors :)`
`19:40.59`	`johnx`	`wordpad is wysiwyg too! :P this is just some simple markup`
`19:41.01`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lcuk, wikifail.`
`19:41.07`	`lcuk`	`yes GeneralAntilles`
`19:41.11`	`lcuk`	`its not logical`
`19:41.18`	`GeneralAntilles`	`No`
`19:41.21`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lcuk fails at wiki.`
`19:41.27`	`johnx`	`GeneralAntilles, gotta say, editing tables on wikis is quite annoying`
`19:41.34`	`lcuk`	`ill write my own fudging wiki then :)`
`19:41.38`	`GeneralAntilles`	`johnx, then use HTML`
`19:42.22`	`MaceN800`	`octuplets arent organs`
`19:42.27`	`johnx`	`GeneralAntilles, ok, that's not the right answer either :P`
`19:42.32`	`lcuk`	`people should not have to learn a new language just to edit a simple document`
`19:42.33`	`johnx`	`that's why there's still red on mer's sprint page even though I did half those tasks :P`
`19:42.50`	`GeneralAntilles`	`johnx, it's not hard to substitute color codes.`
`19:42.56`	`johnx`	`lcuk, for markup it's not that bad...but when you start editing tables it becomes a PITA`
`19:43.02`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lcuk, there's no "language" involved.`
`19:43.18`	`johnx`	`GeneralAntilles, it's the formatting, not color codes. I think in hex color codes already :P`
`19:43.20`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lcuk, the problem is, WYSIWYG usually just plain sucks.`
`19:43.41`	`lcuk`	`it has a grammar, a user edits the source code which gets marked up into a final binary document`
`19:43.49`	`GeneralAntilles`	`johnx, um, marking a task done should be setting a color code and setting the completion percentage.`
`19:43.49`	`radic`	`I ported cfdisk but it dosn't work`
`19:43.55`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Both values can simply be replaced. . . .`
`19:44.14`	`lcuk`	`oooh so if you do things quickly you can set the color to something cool`
`19:44.21`	`johnx`	`radic, define 'doesn't work'. also, it's already available...`
`19:44.28`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lcuk, you have to balance functionality and simplicity`
`19:44.30`	`lcuk`	`omg that task has gone to maroon, call the cops`
`19:44.37`	`GeneralAntilles`	`WYSIWYG sacrifices functionality for simplicity.`
`19:44.52`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lcuk, just take 20 minutes to review http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cheatsheet`
`19:45.13`	`lcuk`	`yeah GeneralAntilles understood totally, thats why you allow the user and document to specify style (none/wiki/wysiwygish)`
`19:45.32`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lcuk, then somebody editing WYSIWYG breaks the document.`
`19:45.38`	`*** join/#maemo pyfg (n=this@194.197.235.61)`
`19:45.43`	`radic`	`johnx: FATAL ERROR: Bad primary partition 0: Partition endsin the final partial cylinder`
`19:45.46`	`lcuk`	`GeneralAntilles, i argue for simplicity because thats what a lot of real users demand`
`19:45.57`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lcuk, most real users don't write documentation.`
`19:46.00`	`johnx`	`radic, that's a problem with your partition, not cfdisk`
`19:46.03`	`radic`	`johnx: that I get if I start it withe "cfdisk /dev/sda"`
`19:46.06`	`lcuk`	`a wiki is for more than documentation`
`19:46.07`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lcuk, it's lie uploading to Extras.`
`19:46.24`	`GeneralAntilles`	`You have to balance simplicity and ease-of-use with maintaining a good quality.`
`19:46.32`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lcuk, everything on the wiki is documentation.`
`19:46.47`	`*** join/#maemo roue (n=roue@afterthought.ACS.Carleton.edu)`
`19:47.05`	`MaceN800`	`She is planning to breast-feed all eight infants, said Mandhir Gupta, head of neonatology at the centre. "She's a very strong woman. She should be able to take care of all eight of them."`
`19:47.14`	`MaceN800`	`that's rough`
`19:47.16`	`lcuk`	`apart from the fact clicking help has nothing (as i discovered earlier)`
`19:47.27`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Stskeeps, are you planning on having sprint reviews?`
`19:47.29`	`radic`	`hmm`
`19:47.45`	`radic`	`MaceN800: you're red, that's confusing me...`
`19:48.17`	`MaceN800`	`dont people in poor countries breast feed their kids until theyre teens?`
`19:48.18`	`lcuk`	`GeneralAntilles, at the footer of the page in edit mode is a link that says "editing help" which leads here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Help:Editing`
`19:48.20`	`lcuk`	`its empty`
`19:48.35`	`lcuk`	`clicking help on the right brings you to an empty page: here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Help:Contents`
`19:48.38`	`lcuk`	`it was empty`
`19:48.39`	`johnx`	`lcuk, there's no help for you :>`
`19:48.42`	`lcuk`	`(click that one, its fun)`
`19:48.49`	`*** part/#maemo slonopotamus (n=slonopot@80.90.119.73)`
`19:49.00`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lcuk, https://wiki.maemo.org/Help:Editing`
`19:49.19`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lcuk, you should always feel free to help out and improve the wiki. :)`
`19:49.32`	`lcuk`	`cur) (last) 19:48, 27 January 2009 generalantilles`
`19:49.37`	`lcuk`	`:D you just added it`
`19:49.42`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Yes, lcuk, I just added it.`
`19:49.48`	`johnx`	`lcuk, that's the beauty of a wiki`
`19:49.49`	`lcuk`	`i thought i was going daft for a moment then`
`19:50.14`	`johnx`	`thinks he'll just use ascii art tables instead of mucking about with wiki tables`
`19:50.18`	`lcuk`	`yeah i know i edited it earlier when i found no help :$ my rant now is to help with that`
`19:50.22`	`lcuk`	`lol`
`19:51.16`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I don't love the inverted page look, wazd.`
`19:51.39`	`lcuk`	`ouchy! the editing help at the footer says it will open in a new window, it doesnt and i wouldv lost work :O`
`19:51.44`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Seems like it adds a lot of overhead for little benefit.`
`19:52.03`	`lcuk`	`no, the computer doesnt have to work as hard sending black pixels around`
`19:52.09`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lcuk, worked fine for me (browser forces them to tabs)`
`19:52.09`	`johnx`	`lcuk, you should set your browser to remember post data`
`19:52.18`	`*** join/#maemo Maemonaut (n=user@f053102223.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`19:52.27`	`Alendit_`	`lcuk, take a look http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WYSIWYG_editor`
`19:52.40`	`*** join/#maemo lardman_ (n=simon@89.243.22.0)`
`19:52.49`	`johnx`	`w00 lardman_ :D`
`19:52.58`	`Alendit_`	`lcuk, it's vor wikipedia software, no idea if maemowiki uses the same syntax`
`19:53.18`	`*** join/#maemo L0cutus (n=L0cutus@94.160.30.16)`
`19:53.30`	`*** join/#maemo gnuton (n=gnuton@kde/developer/aloisio)`
`19:54.23`	`Alendit_`	`"s/vor/for/g"`
`19:54.42`	`gnuton`	`Hello`
`19:55.03`	`lcuk`	`Alendit_, :) thanks for that`
`19:55.41`	`des^`	`I am trying to get the python2.5 sdk but I only get that the package couldnt found, anyone got experience with that?`
`19:55.49`	`Alendit_`	`lcuk, np`
`19:57.36`	`lardman_`	`hey johnx`
`19:58.00`	`johnx`	`lardman_, got a new first-boot-wizard that's happy to make me a user called 'simon' :)`
`19:58.08`	`lardman`	`:)`
`19:58.18`	`lardman`	`good stuff, any ideas what the problem was?`
`19:58.41`	`qwerty12_N800`	`It's allergic to Simon's? :P`
`19:58.45`	`johnx`	`probably was one of the parts where I was reworking first-boot-wizard earlier today`
`19:58.46`	`lardman`	`oi!`
`19:58.49`	`lardman`	`:p`
`19:59.00`	`lardman`	`do you have a link for the deb then?`
`19:59.08`	`johnx`	`it's in the repo`
`19:59.17`	`lardman`	`extras-dev?`
`19:59.19`	`johnx`	`apt-get update && apt-get install first-boot-wizard or I can find you a link`
`19:59.27`	`johnx`	`hmm? it's in the mer repo`
`19:59.30`	`lardman`	`no worries, I can do that`
`19:59.36`	`lardman`	`ah, what's the mer repo then?`
`19:59.45`	`johnx`	`it's setup in your mer install`
`19:59.51`	`johnx`	`just chroot and use apt-get`
`20:00.03`	`johnx`	`it's not part of maemo, it's part of mer`
`20:00.17`	`lardman`	`oh, ok, how do I chroot? Never done that before`
`20:00.39`	`lcuk`	`lardman, grit your teeth`
`20:00.42`	`johnx`	`first of all, where do you have mer installed?`
`20:01.19`	`johnx`	`it's basically just: chroot /mnt/place/where/mer/is/mounted su -`
`20:01.47`	`Alendit_`	`Stskeeps, it works, awesome, thx a lot`
`20:01.51`	`qwerty12_N800`	`would recommend binding in case. I used: 'sudo mount -o bind /dev "/mnt/mer/dev" ; sudo mount -o bind /proc "/mnt/mer/proc" ; sudo mount -t devpts none "/mnt/mer/dev/pts" ; sudo mount -o bind /tmp "/mnt/mer/tmp" ; sudo mount -o bind /sys "/mnt/mer/sys"'`
`20:02.26`	`lardman`	`...`
`20:03.00`	`*** join/#maemo kpel (n=mcu@unaffiliated/kpel)`
`20:03.07`	`kpel`	`hi`
`20:03.20`	`johnx`	`lardman, actually, instead of apt-get, just grab this deb: http://repository.mer.tspre.org/pool/main/f/first-boot-wizard/first-boot-wizard_0.2-mer2_armel.deb`
`20:03.26`	`lcuk`	`\o/ Convert Microsoft Word document content to MediaWiki markup. This is a Word Visual Basic macro. Usage requires a running copy of Microsoft Word that supports Visual Basic macros. (Word 97 or greater).`
`20:03.35`	`johnx`	`and chroot and install. easier than getting networking up in a chroot`
`20:03.37`	`lcuk`	`for a one off import after im finished editing, thats perfect`
`20:03.56`	`johnx`	`lcuk, as long as it's only your own page`
`20:04.08`	`johnx`	`I worry heavily about what kind of wiki markup that will spit out`
`20:04.09`	`Alendit_`	`lcuk, word = m$ = evil && eats babies ;)`
`20:04.13`	`lardman`	`just trying to work out where Mer was installed`
`20:04.32`	`johnx`	`sfdisk -l /dev/mmcblk?`
`20:04.43`	`johnx`	`look for likely huge ext2/3 partitions :)`
`20:05.05`	`lcuk`	`johnx, im gonna write a word macro to download every page in the wiki, convert it and reupload it. in reality ill use it on the one or two documents i need to create`
`20:05.57`	`johnx`	`lcuk, ok...just warning you :)`
`20:06.19`	`lcuk`	`yeah i couldnt or wouldnt want to get wiki into word anywya`
`20:06.44`	`lardman`	`urgh, mounting fails`
`20:07.18`	`johnx`	`lardman, do you have ext3.ko loaded?`
`20:07.24`	`johnx`	`lsmod \| grep ext`
`20:08.04`	`lardman`	`ah, I thought it was ext2`
`20:08.10`	`lardman`	`school-boy error`
`20:09.07`	`johnx`	`errr...might be?`
`20:09.11`	`johnx`	`either one can work`
`20:09.11`	`lardman`	`what's the secret for ext3 then, what else do I need to insert?>`
`20:09.20`	`lardman`	`I have ext2 loaded`
`20:09.24`	`johnx`	`jbd mbcache and ext3`
`20:09.48`	`lardman`	`cool`
`20:10.30`	`lardman`	`much better - ext2 only needs mbcache; the fs is ext3 and won't be recognised without that module loaded`
`20:10.44`	`lardman`	`which is odd, as I thought it could fall back to ext2`
`20:10.48`	`lardman`	`anyway`
`20:11.14`	`johnx`	`it won't fall back unless you tell it to`
`20:11.25`	`johnx`	`mount -t ext2 ... would have been fine`
`20:11.33`	`lardman`	`no, I tried that`
`20:11.36`	`*** join/#maemo acydlord (n=acydlord@97-117-198-85.phnx.qwest.net)`
`20:11.42`	`johnx`	`odd`
`20:12.43`	`lardman`	`yeah, probably the wonders of busybox`
`20:13.03`	`lardman`	`right, I've run qwerty's commands now`
`20:13.08`	`lardman`	`how do I know it worked?`
`20:13.20`	`johnx`	`did your prompt change?`
`20:13.33`	`liri`	`Stskeeps: ping`
`20:13.43`	`*** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=sporks@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net)`
`20:13.45`	`beavis`	`pong`
`20:13.50`	`beavis`	`wooh`
`20:13.58`	`lardman`	`hang on, just waiting for apt-get update to finish`
`20:14.03`	`beavis`	`wrong route`
`20:14.29`	`johnx`	`and/or: ls /etc/rc.local`
`20:16.18`	`lardman`	`nah, didn't work`
`20:16.37`	`johnx`	`apt-get update failed?`
`20:17.11`	`johnx`	`or the chroot failed?`
`20:17.29`	`lardman`	`qwerty's lot failed`
`20:17.33`	`*** join/#maemo JasonWoof (n=jasonwoo@unaffiliated/herkamire)`
`20:17.46`	`johnx`	`so you're not actually chrooted?`
`20:17.49`	`lardman`	`I then tried the chroot, got the following: su: Authentication failure, (Ignored)`
`20:18.06`	`lardman`	`I might be now though as that file now exists`
`20:18.07`	`johnx`	`are you root?`
`20:18.08`	`*** join/#maemo jpt9 (n=jpt9@elmer-21.dynamic2.rpi.edu)`
`20:18.09`	`jpt9`	`Hey.`
`20:18.12`	`JasonWoof`	`ok, the 2GB vfat partition on my n810 (the one that mounts on the PC) got corrupted again.`
`20:18.14`	`lardman`	`of course :)`
`20:18.27`	`jpt9`	`I have a 770 with OS2007HE. I'm trying to run Pidgin 2.4.3, but it just crashes.`
`20:18.28`	`jpt9`	`Any ideas?`
`20:18.34`	`jpt9`	`Maybe where to get an older version?`
`20:18.39`	`lardman`	`ok, it's chrooted now`
`20:18.43`	`johnx`	`lardman, then copy the .deb files I linked into the place where mer is mounted and do this: chroot /mnt/mer su -`
`20:18.54`	`JasonWoof`	`and vfat is crap anyway. I'd like something more linux-friendly, ie that can save the users and permissions, etc`
`20:19.21`	`JasonWoof`	`but... doesn't look like the kernel on the tablet (diablo) supports ext3, or even ext2`
`20:19.27`	`JasonWoof`	`what's a good fs to use?`
`20:19.39`	`qwerty12_N800`	`it does, once modules are loaded`
`20:19.42`	`johnx`	`JasonWoof, first is your partition table correct? some shipped with a broken partition table`
`20:19.45`	`JasonWoof`	`I don't care a whole lot if win or mac can mount it, though that would be a nice bonus`
`20:20.01`	`johnx`	`second, the modules are in /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/$(uname -r)`
`20:20.09`	`JasonWoof`	`I've re-partitioned it at some point`
`20:20.24`	`JasonWoof`	`cool`
`20:21.13`	`lcuk`	`GeneralAntilles, even with the cheatsheet, it doesnt tell me how to display a small box of just code, any ideas`
`20:21.21`	`lcuk`	`it makes it into paragraphs`
`20:21.25`	`lardman`	`right, installed, time to reboot I take it, unless there are any last rights?`
`20:21.33`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lcuk, put a space at the beginning of the line`
`20:21.35`	`johnx`	`lcuk, you want something like 'unformatted' or 'preformatted'`
`20:21.35`	`GeneralAntilles`	`or use <pre>`
`20:21.37`	`JasonWoof`	`ok, so ext3 sounds good then.`
`20:21.40`	`JasonWoof`	`thanks guys`
`20:21.47`	`lcuk`	`ahhh thanks`
`20:21.57`	`johnx`	`JasonWoof, sure. e2fsprogs is in extras or extras-devel.`
`20:22.22`	`JasonWoof`	`sweet :)`
`20:22.57`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Wikitext_examples`
`20:23.16`	`JasonWoof`	`I was hoping I could format it without the help of a PC`
`20:23.47`	`JasonWoof`	`because the wireless card on my laptop died, and I'm only online though the tablet`
`20:24.01`	`JasonWoof`	`(ethernet over usb to the tablet, wireless from there to my router)`
`20:24.06`	`qwerty12_N800`	`it can be done from tablet as root`
`20:24.12`	`johnx`	`eep. bummer. my laptop's wireless card works, but my laptop is dead`
`20:24.13`	`lardman`	`johnx: I hate to say it, but it's still broke`
`20:24.14`	`JasonWoof`	`rad`
`20:24.42`	`qwerty12_N800`	`lardman, I recommend changing your name :P`
`20:24.46`	`lardman`	`lol`
`20:24.57`	`johnx`	`lardman, still won't accept your username?`
`20:25.14`	`lardman`	`"qwerty" doens't work either`
`20:25.19`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: can't it be some thing in the realname so it wont add? :P`
`20:25.34`	`johnx`	`Stskeeps, he promises it was just spaces and letters`
`20:25.50`	`lardman`	`I wrote this: "Simon Pickering"`
`20:25.54`	`johnx`	`oh`
`20:25.55`	`lardman`	`which is my name`
`20:25.57`	`johnx`	`with quotes?`
`20:26.00`	`lardman`	`no`
`20:26.03`	`johnx`	`ah`
`20:26.22`	`Stskeeps`	`lardman: and you used installer i guess or how did you untar it?`
`20:26.26`	`johnx`	`yeah, I can only assume that it barfing the first time messes something up the second time`
`20:26.30`	`*** join/#maemo VDVsx_ (n=valerio@bl6-242-160.dsl.telepac.pt)`
`20:26.35`	`lardman`	`Stskeeps: installer`
`20:26.47`	`*** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at)`
`20:26.48`	`Stskeeps`	`even the new snapshot? file:///? hm :P`
`20:27.09`	`johnx`	`Stskeeps, it's almost certainly a problem with the first-boot-wizard from earlier today having messed something up`
`20:27.14`	`Stskeeps`	`k`
`20:27.20`	`lardman`	`yep, the new file, though I had to do it from the interweb, file:/// wouldn't work`
`20:28.27`	`lardman`	`I may as well chroot and add my user?`
`20:29.05`	`johnx`	`lardman, yeah, or dpkg -r first-boot-wizard`
`20:29.20`	`johnx`	`errr...hmmm`
`20:29.32`	`*** join/#maemo VDVsx__ (n=valerio@bl11-225-3.dsl.telepac.pt)`
`20:29.37`	`lardman`	`is there a flag/file which it looks for?`
`20:29.56`	`johnx`	`it will only run if /etc/default/autologin doesn't exist`
`20:30.06`	`lardman`	`ok`
`20:30.16`	`lardman`	`otherwise I get a prompt?`
`20:30.47`	`lardman`	`I'll give it a go, bbiab`
`20:30.50`	`johnx`	`if you dpkg -r first-boot-wizard it will make you a user without asking you anything`
`20:31.05`	`lardman`	`with what user name?`
`20:31.09`	`lardman`	`"user"?`
`20:31.11`	`johnx`	`'user'`
`20:31.19`	`lardman`	`cool, will try that then`
`20:31.19`	`johnx`	`if you echo simon > /etc/default/autologin it will try to log you in as simon`
`20:31.35`	`johnx`	`but it won't set some things up...`
`20:31.59`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: snapshot is from last night btw`
`20:31.59`	`johnx`	`if you rm /etc/rc2.d/S60auto-startx and select console from rescue it will give you a console`
`20:32.05`	`Stskeeps`	`which really wonders me why it died then :P`
`20:32.17`	`johnx`	`Stskeeps, yeah, probably a broken first-boot-wizard O_o;`
`20:32.23`	`johnx`	`sorry about that`
`20:32.33`	`johnx`	`I really can't figure out why it's still dying now though`
`20:32.48`	`johnx`	`it must have munched something on his install...`
`20:36.31`	`lardman`	`right, I've chrooted, and removed the first-boot-wizard`
`20:36.44`	`lardman`	`I tried useradd simon, but am told that the user already exists`
`20:37.10`	`johnx`	`well, that's likely the problem`
`20:37.19`	`lardman`	`ah, but why?`
`20:37.35`	`lardman`	`the wizard must have created the user, then sat there telling me the name was wrong`
`20:37.39`	`johnx`	`that area where it was telling you to try again is because adduser was failing somehow`
`20:37.57`	`lardman`	`yeah, but first time though was a fresh install`
`20:37.58`	`johnx`	`so it might have been able to add the user, but failed in another way`
`20:38.12`	`johnx`	`the first time through we have to assume the script was badly fubared`
`20:38.48`	`johnx`	`that version escaped without enough testing. I'll test a bit better from now on O_o;`
`20:38.52`	`lardman`	`fair enough, I'll try a reboot now and see what we get`
`20:38.57`	`lardman`	`;)`
`20:39.01`	`lardman`	`no worries :)`
`20:39.16`	`johnx`	`hates causing regressions`
`20:39.24`	`*** join/#maemo benh_ (n=benh@147.17.168.202-static.velocitynet.com.au)`
`20:39.35`	`lardman`	`well at least it's been found`
`20:40.03`	`Stskeeps`	`delusered it?`
`20:40.20`	`lardman`	`no, kept the user, deleted the wizards`
`20:40.24`	`lardman`	`s/s//`
`20:40.30`	`lardman`	`hmm, not quite`
`20:40.46`	`lcuk`	`is this the right approach: http://wiki.maemo.org/Liqbase_library_overview`
`20:40.50`	`Stskeeps`	`k`
`20:41.01`	`lardman`	`desktop's come up :)`
`20:41.01`	`johnx`	`without the wizard auto-startx will adduser user`
`20:41.14`	`lardman`	`I set it to autologin simon`
`20:41.20`	`johnx`	`ah, ok then`
`20:41.29`	`johnx`	`might want to add yourself to some groups`
`20:41.47`	`lardman`	`ok`
`20:41.53`	`johnx`	`otherwise network manager might not work sigh`
`20:41.57`	`lardman`	`where do I find the source for the wizard?`
`20:42.09`	`johnx`	`if you install it again it won't mess with you :)`
`20:42.31`	`johnx`	`the source is on launchpad:`
`20:42.35`	`GeneralAntilles`	`andre__, you know what's going to be fun? If/when Nokia starts pushing updates to individual applications.`
`20:42.39`	`johnx`	`waits for lp to come up`
`20:42.52`	`johnx`	`https://code.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/first-boot-wizard`
`20:43.09`	`lardman`	`fn key doens't work to give numbers in the WPA password dialog`
`20:43.17`	`Stskeeps`	`lardman: yeah, fn is a bit dodgy`
`20:43.20`	`lardman`	`ok`
`20:43.22`	`Stskeeps`	`it gives keycodes over 256`
`20:43.27`	`Stskeeps`	`xinput only understands 0-256`
`20:43.30`	`Stskeeps`	`er, 0-255`
`20:43.45`	`lardman`	`ok`
`20:43.49`	`Stskeeps`	`DarkenCZ is looking at it`
`20:44.45`	`lardman`	`crosses fingers for wpa password`
`20:45.19`	`Stskeeps`	`"Mount internal FAT partition under /home/user/MyDocs instead of /media/mmc2.`
`20:45.20`	`Stskeeps`	`"`
`20:45.25`	`Stskeeps`	`wonders how much will break cos of that`
`20:45.32`	`johnx`	`hmm?`
`20:45.35`	`johnx`	`that's what now?`
`20:45.37`	`Stskeeps`	`ke-recv, fremantle`
`20:45.40`	`johnx`	`O_o`
`20:45.42`	`johnx`	`dies`
`20:46.29`	`johnx`	`that's like the kind of enhancement request I would laugh at as it got shot down`
`20:46.56`	`Stskeeps`	`well it makes more sense than having it on friggen flash..`
`20:47.04`	`johnx`	`but vfat?`
`20:47.37`	`Stskeeps`	`mmm`
`20:47.53`	`johnx`	`I suppose they want to have it mountable by a PC but how are they going to claw it away from running apps with open files...?`
`20:48.04`	`*** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@g227198145.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`20:49.05`	`andre__`	`GeneralAntilles, when will it happen? :-)`
`20:49.29`	`*** join/#maemo dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net)`
`20:49.49`	`johnx`	`heh`
`20:50.48`	`GeneralAntilles`	`andre__, hopefully soon, hopefully never. . . .`
`20:50.53`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Harmattan, maybe.`
`20:52.46`	`johnx`	`in the utopian future where maemo is based on mer and my n9000 makes piping hot coffee on demand`
`20:53.42`	`andre__`	`oh, coffee...`
`20:53.54`	`Jaffa_`	`johnx/Stskeeps: have you tested row #2 in Mer/Sprints/0.7 (HAM in snapshots)? Might be worth a progress update`
`20:54.22`	`johnx`	`Jaffa_, will poke at it in a sec`
`20:54.37`	`johnx`	`actually I can do it right now :)`
`20:54.42`	`Jaffa_`	`ta :)`
`20:54.51`	`Jaffa_`	`was going to, but's now tied up in debmaster interviewing`
`20:54.57`	`johnx`	`as long as someone tells me where does gtk keep it's nice little stop sign icon`
`20:56.23`	`JasonWoof`	`is there a good way to auto-load the ext3 kernel module?`
`20:56.51`	`JasonWoof`	`eg at boot time`
`20:57.31`	`JasonWoof`	`I formatted by /dev/mmcblk0p1 ext3 and I'd like it to mount automatically at bootup like it did when it was vfat`
`20:57.48`	`johnx`	`if you format the first partition on your internal card ext3 I think it might autoload ext3.ko and automount`
`20:57.58`	`johnx`	`otherwise you'll have to add it to an init script`
`20:58.14`	`*** join/#maemo lardman_ (n=simon@78.145.215.98)`
`20:58.14`	`johnx`	`it's worth testing before you crack open an editor though :)`
`20:58.38`	`*** join/#maemo b-man (n=b-man@pool-71-124-127-218.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net)`
`20:59.46`	`*** join/#maemo lardman__ (n=simon@78.145.215.98)`
`21:00.04`	`*** join/#maemo giridhari (n=user@a88-113-10-165.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`21:00.25`	`lardman__`	`wonders how to add himself to some groups with the term not working nor the network`
`21:00.37`	`lardman__`	`any suggestions for which groups to add myself to?`
`21:00.40`	`etrunko`	`lardman__: how many of you ?`
`21:00.47`	`dneary`	`Hi lardman__`
`21:00.49`	`lardman__`	`just the one`
`21:00.54`	`lardman__`	`hey dneary, etrunko`
`21:01.07`	`lardman__`	`has poor connection`
`21:01.22`	`dneary`	`Where's lardman, lardman\|gone and lardman_?`
`21:01.34`	`etrunko`	`gone?`
`21:01.42`	`lardman__`	`yeah, lardman\|gone is at work, the rest are here, and will eventually die`
`21:01.44`	`*** join/#maemo timsamoff (n=46f3ff0a@67.159.35.76)`
`21:01.52`	`b-man`	`lol`
`21:02.07`	`etrunko`	`ops`
`21:02.11`	`johnx`	`lardman, plugdev netdev users admin audio video`
`21:02.21`	`*** part/#maemo giridhari (n=user@a88-113-10-165.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`21:02.56`	`Jaffa_`	`lardman__: you popping over to the other place; or should we start without you?`
`21:03.57`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: did you get the diff for me?`
`21:04.44`	`b-man`	`........ i'm having problems using it, the -ruN extension doesn't work :P`
`21:05.45`	`b-man`	`tryed googling but still can not get it to work`
`21:05.49`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: fair enough, just send me a tar.gz of the latest :)`
`21:06.00`	`johnx`	`what's the sympton of h-a-m not working?`
`21:06.14`	`b-man`	`ok, sorry i could not get you a diff :(`
`21:06.20`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: no packages showing for instance and no applications installable`
`21:06.37`	`johnx`	`ah, ok. so if it doesn't start at all that's something different :)`
`21:06.48`	`Stskeeps`	`that's not being member of users i think`
`21:06.54`	`*** join/#maemo jpt9 (n=jpt9@marvin-50.dynamic2.rpi.edu)`
`21:07.01`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: hehe, it's rare anyone has to say sorry to me :) we're not in a rush and it's a learning experience for all of us`
`21:07.09`	`johnx`	`ah, hmmm`
`21:07.14`	`b-man`	`:)`
`21:07.21`	`b-man`	`is still having problems with wireless in ubuntu - even after installing a fixed version of hal and installing tablet-hw-n8x0-support`
`21:07.31`	`*** join/#maemo zs (n=zs@87-205-137-226.adsl.inetia.pl)`
`21:07.42`	`johnx`	`b-man, what sort of problems? disconnects?`
`21:08.07`	`b-man`	`no, it can't find the device`
`21:08.17`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: member of plugdev, netdev?`
`21:08.46`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: sign up for launchpad while you're at it`
`21:08.59`	`b-man`	`shure :)`
`21:09.53`	`*** join/#maemo florian (n=fuchs@g227198145.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`21:10.33`	`lardman__`	`Jaffa_: I'll pop over, let me find the name`
`21:11.37`	`johnx`	`wishes his bt headphones didn't cause him physical pain :(`
`21:11.53`	`b-man`	`heh`
`21:11.53`	`lardman`	`johnx: right, I made myself a member of the root group, wifi now works, but the terminal still won't open for me`
`21:12.03`	`b-man`	`wonders if the ubuntu community is aware of his efforts of getting pure ubuntu running on the tablets`
`21:12.20`	`johnx`	`lardman, x terminal or roxterm?`
`21:12.32`	`Stskeeps`	`osso-xterm is included`
`21:12.47`	`lardman`	`oss-xerm`
`21:13.01`	`Stskeeps`	`lardman: i really wonder if the image was unpacked in a wrong way or something`
`21:13.11`	`Stskeeps`	`tar pzvxf is what i use, and making sure it's gnutar`
`21:13.33`	`lardman`	`I just used the installer`
`21:13.42`	`Stskeeps`	`mmk`
`21:13.43`	`*** part/#maemo jpt9 (n=jpt9@marvin-50.dynamic2.rpi.edu)`
`21:14.06`	`Stskeeps`	`then again, since today i'm going to do linear algebra homework for the first time in 3 years, it is a typical murphys law day`
`21:14.10`	`Stskeeps`	`:P`
`21:15.47`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: i'm going to upload it to extras-devel over the week probably`
`21:16.00`	`b-man`	`ok`
`21:17.02`	`*** join/#maemo daperl (n=daperl@cpe-66-74-209-116.san.res.rr.com)`
`21:17.41`	`*** join/#maemo lardman (n=simon@78.150.62.125)`
`21:17.47`	`lardman`	`re`
`21:17.51`	`Stskeeps`	`wb`
`21:17.55`	`lardman`	`tx`
`21:18.04`	`lardman`	`anyway, not much hope afaict`
`21:18.12`	`b-man`	`finishes up packaging merinstaller_1.9.4-1mer1 and sends it to Stskeeps :)`
`21:18.18`	`*** join/#maemo chenca (n=chenca@200.184.118.130)`
`21:18.23`	`lardman`	`and I have a huge lag here, so probably not much hope sorting it this evening either`
`21:18.52`	`johnx`	`lardman, alright, I'll beat on first-boot-wizard a little and maybe you can try a fresh install tomorrow if you want`
`21:19.03`	`lardman`	`sounds good, sorry for being a pita`
`21:19.13`	`johnx`	`not at all. quite the opposite`
`21:19.27`	`lardman`	`one thing I did notice, how to you disconnect from wifi?`
`21:19.29`	`johnx`	`I hate to have the one piece of mer that is pretty much 'all mine' be screwing up`
`21:19.30`	`lcuk`	`lardman, better to have feedback`
`21:19.53`	`lardman`	`lcuk: yeah, I may be feeding back all too quickly though ;)`
`21:19.55`	`johnx`	`lardman, walk away from the access point?`
`21:20.04`	`lardman`	`johnx: :D`
`21:20.06`	`Stskeeps`	`lardman: popping the battery, obviously`
`21:20.13`	`lcuk`	`lol thats what its there for`
`21:20.21`	`lardman`	`but really, there's no way to disconnect afaict`
`21:20.35`	`qwerty12_N800`	`lardman, if you had a xterm, maybe ifdown? :)`
`21:20.38`	`lcuk`	`si, not too soon at all, better to iron out issues like this now before the knowldge is lost as people move onto other things`
`21:20.45`	`lardman`	`it appears my root password wasn't actually used, as I couldn't log in via ssh`
`21:20.52`	`lardman`	`xterm won't run`
`21:21.03`	`qwerty12_N800`	`hence the if :)`
`21:21.06`	`Stskeeps`	`hmm`
`21:21.18`	`lardman`	`ifdown is not ideal though, should be a gui option`
`21:21.39`	`Stskeeps`	`lardman: NM is really just a symptom of ICD not being public, heh`
`21:21.46`	`Stskeeps`	`then again, ICD is something nokia did well`
`21:21.48`	`*** join/#maemo tulkastaldo (n=tulkas@24-247-227-10.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com)`
`21:21.54`	`johnx`	`lardman, try right clicking on nm-applet :)`
`21:22.14`	`qwerty12_N800`	`btw, was anyone having problems uploading to diablo extras-devel before?`
`21:22.49`	`b-man`	`Stskeeps: http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller_1.9.4-1mer1.tar.gz`
`21:22.56`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: thank you`
`21:24.01`	`b-man`	`your welcome, i just hope that bootmenu item issue doesn't re-appear`
`21:24.08`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: where do you develop nowadays btw?`
`21:24.15`	`Stskeeps`	`ubuntu or maemo?`
`21:24.20`	`b-man`	`both`
`21:24.24`	`Stskeeps`	`k`
`21:25.47`	`b-man`	`just got accepted into an advanced computer technology class at his highschool btw :D`
`21:25.52`	`Stskeeps`	`woo :P`
`21:26.14`	`Stskeeps`	`didn't take anything in highschool seriously besides math and history`
`21:26.23`	`b-man`	`hehe`
`21:26.24`	`Stskeeps`	`and philosophy`
`21:26.46`	`b-man`	`gose to a technical highschool - that's why ;)`
`21:26.53`	`johnx`	`I took computers seriously in high school: I was the sys admin.`
`21:26.55`	`Stskeeps`	`export MODULE=mbcache jbd ext3`
`21:27.04`	`Stskeeps`	`still wrong, should be MODULE="" ;)`
`21:27.11`	`Stskeeps`	`wasn't the export port that was the issue :)`
`21:27.27`	`b-man`	`is the only person in his school to port an os to a device ;)`
`21:28.19`	`*** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@86.56.69.25)`
`21:28.42`	`Stskeeps`	`hehe`
`21:29.52`	`qwerty12_N800`	`bought a Â£5 pair of headphones & discovers his N800 does actually do bass.`
`21:30.10`	`*** join/#maemo gnuton (n=gnuton@cs181164097.pp.htv.fi)`
`21:31.35`	`b-man`	`qwerty12; what would Â£5 be in $? :)`
`21:31.43`	`Jaffa_`	`shush you`
`21:31.45`	`Jucato`	`waves at gnuton`
`21:32.08`	`b-man`	`jaffa: shhh :P`
`21:32.23`	`Jaffa_`	`About 2p now; but not too long ago it'd've been $3002030203023`
`21:33.37`	`gnuton`	`Jucato: Welcome in #Maemo :D`
`21:33.47`	`Jucato`	`thank you thank you`
`21:33.51`	`Jucato`	`takes a bow :)`
`21:33.52`	`gnuton`	`haha :D`
`21:33.56`	`qwerty12_N800`	`b-man, $7 :)`
`21:34.30`	`b-man`	`oh :P`
`21:34.41`	`qwerty12_N800`	`needs to figure out where the currency converter in qalculate is...`
`21:35.08`	`b-man`	`has a $20 pair of headphones`
`21:35.56`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: what's a user-space partition again?`
`21:36.24`	`Jaffa_`	`qwerty12_N800: Google.`
`21:36.30`	`Jaffa_`	`(or xe.com/ucc/ if you're feeling posh)`
`21:36.44`	`*** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@a88-114-221-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`21:36.52`	`b-man`	`Stskeeps: it is the partition for the os :P`
`21:36.57`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Jaffa_, thanks :). I settled on xe when I got $7 :)`
`21:37.20`	`b-man`	`aka root-filesystem ;)`
`21:37.30`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: ok`
`21:37.52`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: then why do we mkdosfs it? :P`
`21:38.10`	`*** join/#maemo Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun)`
`21:38.12`	`*** join/#maemo timsamoff (n=46f3ff0a@67.159.35.76)`
`21:39.24`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: i think you mean "would you like to format a FAT partition" :)`
`21:39.34`	`b-man`	`ahhhh, wait, i got mixed up - the user space is for user-storage - in fat32 - and then it is the rootfs partition - for mer`
`21:39.34`	`johnx`	`oooh, moblin news`
`21:39.47`	`Jaffa_`	`johnx: oh?`
`21:39.54`	`johnx`	`Jaffa_, http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2184863928.html?kc=rss`
`21:39.55`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: they're quitting?`
`21:39.57`	`b-man`	`(second partition)`
`21:40.08`	`johnx`	`Stskeeps, targetting netbooks`
`21:40.25`	`GeneralAntilles`	`2010`
`21:40.26`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Seesh`
`21:40.26`	`johnx`	`looks like we were right not to wait for them or something silly like that :)`
`21:40.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Well, it does cut down our competition.`
`21:40.43`	`b-man`	`needs some coffie`
`21:41.08`	`timsamoff`	`* please get some for me. :p`
`21:41.12`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: i think we'll have something sane already before 2010..`
`21:41.13`	`Stskeeps`	`:P`
`21:41.21`	`Stskeeps`	`either that or we will be insane`
`21:41.38`	`qwerty12_N800`	`With all the bugs marked "Fixed in Fremantle", I have no doubts in my mind as to Fremantle being the shit ;)`
`21:41.42`	`johnx`	`Stskeeps, yeah, and we'll have it for MIDs and tablets, not cheap little notebooks`
`21:41.50`	`b-man`	`Stskeeps: shure, i'll change that in 1.9.5-1mer1 ;)`
`21:41.56`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: -and- cheap little notebooks :P`
`21:41.59`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: did already`
`21:41.59`	`Stskeeps`	`:P`
`21:42.17`	`b-man`	`really needs coffee ;p`
`21:42.29`	`johnx`	`wow O_o sse3 required to play`
`21:42.37`	`johnx`	`well so much for portability`
`21:42.55`	`benson`	`Hmm... maybe they realized there won't be a power-efficient x86 until 2010.`
`21:43.16`	`johnx`	`are they really serious about this moblin thing? this looks like a joke O_o;`
`21:44.04`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: time to incorporate ourselves and sell ourselves to intel.`
`21:44.06`	`Stskeeps`	`:P`
`21:44.17`	`Stskeeps`	`;)`
`21:44.21`	`Stskeeps`	`brb laundry room`
`21:44.24`	`johnx`	`Stskeeps, we're not selling out, we're cashing in!`
`21:45.01`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/merinstaller/files`
`21:45.08`	`Stskeeps`	`could you just review it quickly?`
`21:45.10`	`lcuk`	`johnx, i love how the clutter video is not actual on device performance :)`
`21:45.27`	`lcuk`	`i wonder if they are staying away from mids becuase of performance.. ?`
`21:45.51`	`lcuk`	`wonders how well liqbase will run on eee + touch`
`21:48.23`	`johnx`	`heh...they green screened their demo`
`21:48.25`	`johnx`	`awesome`
`21:48.45`	`johnx`	`err...nm...they overlayed a picture of a hand O_o`
`21:48.55`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Yeah`
`21:48.57`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Weird demo`
`21:48.58`	`lcuk`	`even worse :)`
`21:49.02`	`b-man`	`Stskeeps: shure`
`21:49.17`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Maybe a new cursor picture`
`21:49.28`	`GeneralAntilles`	`That's probably what it's going to ship with`
`21:49.31`	`johnx`	`whiskey tango foxtrot`
`21:49.31`	`GeneralAntilles`	`A giant finger for a cursor`
`21:49.54`	`lcuk`	`heh`
`21:50.07`	`lcuk`	`gives it a finger`
`21:50.20`	`GeneralAntilles`	`johnx, can we ship Mer with a middle finger for a cursor? :)`
`21:50.33`	`johnx`	`GeneralAntilles, I will leave the art to you`
`21:50.51`	`GeneralAntilles`	`My hand's gonna be famous!`
`21:51.11`	`timsamoff`	`GeneralAntilles: Isn't that finger too tied up for photo ops, though?`
`21:51.31`	`lcuk`	`lol GeneralAntilles :D you could be a hand model`
`21:51.51`	`b-man`	`lol XD`
`21:52.43`	`lcuk`	`watches zoolander`
`21:52.59`	`GeneralAntilles`	`opens up Aperture.`
`21:53.21`	`b-man`	`looks at launchpad`
`21:55.03`	`*** join/#maemo christefano_ (n=christo@cpe-76-168-200-180.socal.res.rr.com)`
`21:57.22`	`b-man`	`Stskeeps: looking ok so far`
`21:58.23`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: question, did you ever use the mer imager?`
`21:58.29`	`Stskeeps`	`can't remember if i made you install bzr back then or not`
`21:58.40`	`*** part/#maemo timsamoff (n=46f3ff0a@67.159.35.76)`
`21:59.04`	`b-man`	`yes, that is actually what started merinstaller alpha1 :)`
`21:59.17`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: k, then you still have bzr installed on maemo?`
`21:59.27`	`b-man`	`checks`
`21:59.47`	`lcuk`	`Stskeeps, there you go http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=260262`
`22:00.14`	`b-man`	`Stskeeps: i don't think so`
`22:01.00`	`Stskeeps`	`k`
`22:01.03`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: got python installed on maemo?`
`22:01.12`	`b-man`	`yes`
`22:01.48`	`*** join/#maemo JussiP (n=jpakkane@xdsl-83-145-207-155.nebulazone.fi)`
`22:02.21`	`Stskeeps`	`k, grab http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/bzr/bzr_1.10~rc1-1_armel.modfied.deb and dpkg -i it, and put the contents of http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/bzr/libz.tar.gz in /usr/lib/python2.5`
`22:03.06`	`Stskeeps`	`(in ubuntu you would just have to apt-get install bzr)`
`22:03.39`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Stskeeps, I may end up making that possible for Maemo ;)`
`22:04.08`	`Stskeeps`	`qwerty12_N800: hehe, hopefully only installer component is what is needed to be used in maemo :P`
`22:04.48`	`qwerty12_N800`	`:)`
`22:04.59`	`Stskeeps`	`GeneralAntilles: did you ever you ever finish that community highlights post?`
`22:05.10`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Stskeeps, nope`
`22:05.11`	`b-man`	`ok`
`22:05.17`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Still a one-paragraph draft on my desktop.`
`22:05.18`	`Stskeeps`	`or was it going to be too much of a Mer-spam post? ;)`
`22:05.27`	`b-man`	`Stskeeps, shuld i just use bzr in ubuntu instead?`
`22:06.08`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: well i guess you can chroot into ubuntu :P`
`22:06.10`	`b-man`	`(and save time) ;)`
`22:06.33`	`b-man`	`uses cdeb2 so it won't be a problem ;)`
`22:09.22`	`Stskeeps`	`know how to generate SSH keys?`
`22:09.25`	`*** join/#maemo Ciroip (n=Ciroippp@adsl-ull-173-177.51-151.net24.it)`
`22:10.08`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: awake still?`
`22:10.08`	`johnx`	`yup`
`22:10.08`	`johnx`	`for a bit longer`
`22:10.22`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: k - in about an hour or so can i snapshot again?`
`22:10.33`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Stskeeps, I was going to add (re: Sprints) that you might want to set only a single owner for each task`
`22:10.33`	`johnx`	`yeah, in an hour`
`22:10.42`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Stskeeps, it's less obnoxious to track people down that way`
`22:10.49`	`Stskeeps`	`GeneralAntilles: mm, true`
`22:10.53`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Stskeeps, anybody else is, of course, free to help. :)`
`22:10.55`	`johnx`	`I won't do the incompat bootmenu message by then`
`22:11.02`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: fair enough`
`22:11.05`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Stskeeps, but it's easier if you have one person that's directly responsible.`
`22:11.35`	`Stskeeps`	`GeneralAntilles: think in sprint it was mainly a group effort so i wrote those on there, as in, first when it was complete :)`
`22:13.54`	`Jucato`	`excuse me: what is the safer route in installing something that's in a repo you added (extras-devel) but doesn't appear in app manager? apt-get in the terminal or red pill?`
`22:14.09`	`b-man`	`Stskeeps: ssh-keygen? ;p`
`22:14.28`	`johnx`	`Jucato, apt-get`
`22:14.38`	`*** join/#maemo LiraNuna (n=LiraNuna@c-67-164-73-203.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`22:14.43`	`Jucato`	`hm.. ok. thanks :)`
`22:14.44`	`johnx`	`Jucato, just carefully read what it asks to do before agreeing :)`
`22:14.54`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: yeah :P`
`22:15.06`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: and how to get the public keys out and put on launchpad.net profile page? ;) (theres an item for it)`
`22:15.21`	`Jucato`	`johnx: hehe ok. I implicitly trust gnuton though :)`
`22:15.52`	`*** join/#maemo lardman (n=simon@89.241.230.172)`
`22:15.56`	`b-man`	`Stskeeps: i believe so :)`
`22:16.06`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: alrightie then`
`22:16.24`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: would it be a benefit to make nightly snapshots btw? could probably set that up`
`22:16.57`	`johnx`	`yeah, that might be nice`
`22:17.00`	`Stskeeps`	`k`
`22:17.09`	`johnx`	`shorter waiting time for people who want to join in`
`22:18.12`	`*** join/#maemo LiraNuna (n=LiraNuna@c-67-164-73-203.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`22:18.14`	`*** join/#maemo simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at)`
`22:20.07`	`*** join/#maemo LiraNuna (n=LiraNuna@c-67-164-73-203.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`22:21.22`	`*** join/#maemo benh_ (n=benh@nat/ibm/x-a44ab73470242134)`
`22:21.43`	`lardman`	`hmm, must be having a bad tablet day, wifi stopped working in maemo for a while`
`22:21.52`	`b-man`	`Stskeeps: i believe i allrety have an ssh key uploaded to mer on launchpad`
`22:22.31`	`wazd`	`I'm back :)`
`22:22.37`	`GeneralAntilles`	`johnx, I'm feeling lazy, so the alpha is crap but: http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/new-cursor.png`
`22:22.48`	`b-man`	`hi, wazd`
`22:22.48`	`Stskeeps`	`b-man: alright`
`22:23.06`	`wazd`	`b-man: heya`
`22:23.06`	`qwerty12_N800`	`hi wazd`
`22:23.13`	`*** join/#maemo doc\|home (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007)`
`22:23.14`	`wazd`	`qwerty12_N800: hello :)`
`22:23.23`	`Stskeeps`	`GeneralAntilles: i'm sure there's people on iTT that'd find that a statement from you ;)`
`22:23.23`	`lcuk`	`lololololol GeneralAntilles`
`22:23.30`	`qwerty12_N800`	`GeneralAntilles, ha. Pure win.`
`22:23.41`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Hrm`
`22:23.42`	`Stskeeps`	`GeneralAntilles: and hence you have your new iTT avatar.`
`22:23.49`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I want to do a "clicking" animation for it now. . . .`
`22:23.54`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Stskeeps, ha!`
`22:24.01`	`GeneralAntilles`	`I should do that for April Fools`
`22:24.17`	`lcuk`	`GeneralAntilles, good job you didnt use 2 fingers - apple wouldv come after you`
`22:24.55`	`b-man`	`lcuk: i'd suggest using lol x1000 instead of lololololol ;)`
`22:25.12`	`b-man`	`hehe`
`22:25.29`	`lcuk`	`nahhh, im using a BT keyboard on my tablet, it repeats easily :)`
`22:25.40`	`benson`	`l(ol)^5`
`22:25.44`	`lcuk`	`the apple thing is a serious consideration`
`22:26.00`	`b-man`	`benson lol^100`
`22:26.09`	`lcuk`	`i will have to read up properly on what it means`
`22:27.34`	`*** join/#maemo LiraNuna (n=LiraNuna@c-67-164-73-203.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`22:27.42`	`qwerty12_N800`	`Stskeeps, btw, dunno why hildon-plugins-settings creates a duplicate app menu. there's no mention of the app launcher in the source :/`
`22:29.17`	`Stskeeps`	`qwerty12_N800: prolly due to the broken references in conf`
`22:29.53`	`qwerty12_N800`	`it's also odd because I have only one app menu reference in .osso/hildon-desktop too.`
`22:30.06`	`timeless`	`so um`
`22:30.08`	`timeless`	`i'm around`
`22:30.18`	`timeless`	`and i'm willing to create a couple of extras products`
`22:30.22`	`timeless`	`someone give me a list :)`
`22:30.23`	`benson`	`A similar effect seemed to show up in Chinook, FWIW.`
`22:31.12`	`benson`	`Back then I was trying to expand the task selector by removing one of them, and it duplicated the app menu for me.`
`22:33.32`	`GeneralAntilles`	`timeless, there's no queue at the moment.`
`22:35.06`	`timeless`	`have you guys poked the more active projects?`
`22:36.07`	`*** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@p5B2045D0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`22:36.18`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Sort of`
`22:36.22`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Carman's kinda in limbo at the moment`
`22:36.31`	`Dado_`	`johnx are you there?`
`22:36.57`	`johnx`	`Dado_, yeah`
`22:37.05`	`Dado_`	`back again ;-)`
`22:37.35`	`*** join/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host86-135-133-197.range86-135.btcentralplus.com)`
`22:38.30`	`Dado_`	`ok, you maybe remind my mampt problem ;-)`
`22:38.54`	`johnx`	`yup`
`22:39.00`	`johnx`	`don't remember where we left off though`
`22:40.03`	`Dado_`	`ok i thought all libs were installed and i can install mampt itself`
`22:40.05`	`Dado_`	`BUT`
`22:40.25`	`timeless`	`cries`
`22:40.26`	`Dado_`	`wenn i try it i get an error something is missing`
`22:40.50`	`timeless`	`my debianish system has files in /usr/lib which are um... symlinks to /home/timeless`
`22:40.59`	`Dado_`	`details: libmompt >= 0.2-0 is missing`
`22:41.00`	`johnx`	`timeless, O_o`
`22:41.08`	`timeless`	`lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 63 Jan 7 2008 /home/zones/solaris/nexenta/install/root/usr/lib/libapt-pkg-.so.3.11 -> /home/timeless/apt/apt-0.6.43.3nexenta3/bin/libapt-pkg-.so.3.11`
`22:41.08`	`qwerty12_N800`	`timeless, eurgh`
`22:41.24`	`timeless`	`note that /home/timeless is totally misplaced`
`22:41.35`	`Dado_`	`missing package libmompt`
`22:41.37`	`timeless`	`it'd need to be .../root/home/timeless`
`22:42.07`	`Stskeeps`	`timeless: scary, i'm seemingily not the only one running nexenta`
`22:42.08`	`Dado_`	`apt-cache search mompt gives me:`
`22:42.22`	`timeless`	`sts: i'm not running it anymore`
`22:42.26`	`Dado_`	`mompt_lib`
`22:42.29`	`timeless`	`i was running it for a few years`
`22:42.34`	`timeless`	`but now it doesn't boot`
`22:42.39`	`Stskeeps`	`ah`
`22:42.42`	`*** join/#maemo ignacius (n=ignacius@153.Red-79-145-94.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)`
`22:42.46`	`Stskeeps`	`runs it on his two fileservers`
`22:42.55`	`johnx`	`Dado_, have you seen this? http://repository.embedded.ufcg.edu.br/pool/chinook/main/binary-armel/`
`22:43.39`	`Dado_`	`oha!`
`22:43.43`	`*** join/#maemo TeringTu1y (n=maarten@195-241-125-243.ip.telfort.nl)`
`22:43.45`	`Dado_`	`no didn't seen it`
`22:43.56`	`timeless`	`i used nexenta to deal w/ dpkg/apt-get`
`22:44.07`	`Dado_`	`can i add this as an repo?`
`22:44.33`	`timeless`	`nexenta live(s\|d) in a zone`
`22:44.33`	`Dado_`	`or should i install from this dir directly?`
`22:45.06`	`johnx`	`Dado_, that's what the 'click to install' file should have added, but it's for an older version of OS2008 (maemo 4.0 instead of 4.1)`
`22:45.17`	`johnx`	`so you might just want get the files you need and install manually`
`22:45.22`	`Stskeeps`	`GeneralAntilles: how many different threads on Re: maemo.org is there atm? i'm confused :P`
`22:45.30`	`johnx`	`or you could add the repository manually`
`22:45.59`	`*** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@189.70.24.230)`
`22:46.15`	`Dado_`	`im not sure how to add manually a repo, ill try it..`
`22:46.48`	`johnx`	`if you look at the install file: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/3942/mampt.install`
`22:47.08`	`johnx`	`so distribution: chinook`
`22:47.13`	`johnx`	`components: main`
`22:47.23`	`johnx`	`location/address: http://repository.embedded.ufcg.edu.br/`
`22:47.53`	`qwerty12_N800`	`If it's already added from that install then just change tge catalogue from blank to chinook`
`22:48.02`	`qwerty12_N800`	`s/tge/the/`
`22:49.34`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Stskeeps, threads?`
`22:49.58`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Stskeeps, there are a bunch on -community. :P`
`22:50.09`	`Stskeeps`	`GeneralAntilles: mm.`
`22:50.36`	`johnx`	`Stskeeps, hold off on the image for a couple mintues. about to put a really fixed first-boot-wizard into place`
`22:53.02`	`Dado_`	`ok now i understand where what to write for a repo :-)`
`22:53.30`	`Dado_`	`and i say: "i'm sooo excited, and i just can't hide it!" ;-)`
`22:54.00`	`Dado_`	`many, many thanks johnx`
`22:54.15`	`johnx`	`does it work?`
`22:54.22`	`johnx`	`also...what does mampt do?`
`22:54.52`	`Dado_`	`i have to install the serverpart too, this is my program for tomorrow`
`22:55.05`	`Dado_`	`you know the win program mediaportal?`
`22:55.29`	`Jaffa_`	`ponders: sleep or trying to narrow down some mud issues.`
`22:55.32`	`Dado_`	`its opensource and something like mythTV`
`22:56.32`	`Dado_`	`if i understand it right, then i now can stream TV or whatever i recorded to my n800`
`22:57.11`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: its fine`
`22:57.56`	`*** part/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host86-135-133-197.range86-135.btcentralplus.com)`
`22:59.08`	`Dado_`	`i'll give you a short notice, when i stream my first program to the nokia. ;-)`
`22:59.11`	`Dado_`	`bye`
`22:59.16`	`johnx`	`sounds good :)`
`22:59.18`	`johnx`	`later Dado_`
`22:59.56`	`Jaffa_`	`Did XBMC/MediaPortal ever get anywhere with running on Linux?`
`23:00.17`	`lcuk`	`jaffa, can your mud builder work like distcc - ie could it be setup as a webservice and be passed (small) modular sources and return working binaries?`
`23:00.23`	`johnx`	`xbmc? yeah, it looks great`
`23:00.33`	`johnx`	`and boxee is based on it and looks better than great`
`23:01.06`	`johnx`	`too bad I don't spend much time in front of my tv...`
`23:01.16`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: so clipboard manager worked ok with HIM now?`
`23:01.27`	`johnx`	`how do I test it?`
`23:01.37`	`Jaffa_`	`lcuk: it could be - and definitely with the new package format now in. However, isn't that basically what the autobuilder does? ;-)`
`23:01.48`	`*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gateway.sunflowerbroadband.com)`
`23:02.01`	`lcuk`	`yeah, but autobuilder creates whole packages and does a lot more than im thinking`
`23:02.47`	`Jaffa_`	`lcuk: so, what'd you send "the thing", and what'd you get back?`
`23:03.03`	`lcuk`	`for instance, if someone wanted to make a decent widget or new applet or something else small (ie99% of apps on device) they wouldnt need to setup devkit`
`23:03.04`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: maemopad :P`
`23:03.12`	`Jaffa_`	`lcuk: if this is for personal stuff, a couple of scripts around SSH and Scratchbox might be easier`
`23:03.20`	`Jaffa_`	`lcuk: hmm. Interesting.`
`23:03.26`	`*** join/#maemo StOrM_NW (n=josiasju@alm.nlink.com.br)`
`23:03.48`	`johnx`	`lcuk, but the leap from binary to package is just putting it in an archive`
`23:03.59`	`lcuk`	`the sources for things like adv-backlight are all mainly single file single instance and the system knows where its expected to go`
`23:04.11`	`lcuk`	`yes johnx, agreed`
`23:04.16`	`Stskeeps`	`http://www.reallifecomics.com/ <- this so applies for tablet use once in a while..`
`23:04.22`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Oh damn`
`23:04.38`	`GeneralAntilles`	`The cat horked up a furball on my last set of clean sheets. <_<`
`23:04.42`	`Jaffa_`	`Eugh`
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`23:04.52`	`qwerty12_N800`	`:/`
`23:04.56`	`GeneralAntilles`	`was 2 seconds too late.`
`23:05.04`	`lcuk`	`jaffa, what if the user could just edit their code on the wiki and get the resulting binary immediately`
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`23:07.00`	`Jaffa_`	`lcuk: a web site which provided a JavaScript syntax-highlighting editor for Python, C (and maybe Vala), and dumped you out a binary or a tarball. And had sessions... could be cool.`
`23:07.08`	`Jaffa_`	`I've often thought about a code-oriented wiki`
`23:07.11`	`lcuk`	`+1`
`23:07.30`	`Jaffa_`	`will ponder :-)`
`23:07.44`	`lcuk`	`even if it just packaged and pushed the created items into its own repository for other users to install`
`23:08.08`	`lcuk`	`so when someone else visits a few weeks later they can get the end results quickly as well`
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`23:08.11`	`johnx`	`and I would call this service ssh john@my-boxen screen vi code.c`
`23:08.24`	`lcuk`	`johnx, customer facing please :)`
`23:08.37`	`johnx`	`s/john/$PREFERED_USER/`
`23:08.43`	`benson`	`Hmmm... how would this differ from a javascript/cgi terminal-emulator w/ screen?`
`23:08.47`	`lcuk`	`Jaffa_, its the inverse of what im planning anyway - i want direct on device ide`
`23:09.05`	`lcuk`	`but along the right lines :)`
`23:09.24`	`Jaffa_`	`benson: a) it'd be a service you could offer to people who didn't have a suitable box; b) it's slightly more secure; c) the principle is the same.`
`23:09.26`	`Stskeeps`	`http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gcc-exception-faq.html <- wtf :P`
`23:09.55`	`Jaffa_`	`I suppose lcuk is thinking about people who might want to play on the move (HSPA == ~always on) and not do on-device compilation; or do simple Python home applets etc.`
`23:10.04`	`Jaffa_`	`Especially since you could have templates for getting started.`
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`23:10.24`	`benson`	`Ok, I'd grant B, but you can push a shell through a browser to the $whoever.`
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`23:10.34`	`benson`	`But then, you wouldn't because of B/`
`23:10.49`	`Jaffa_`	`benson: yes, isn't that a technical implementation of what lcuk's suggesting?`
`23:10.56`	`wazd`	`Ok, I've revamped slightly community list: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Wazd/Sandbox/Mer/Community`
`23:11.09`	`Jaffa_`	`The point being making that available to all, wherever/whenever`
`23:11.14`	`wazd`	`It's non-arrangable now but whatever :)`
`23:11.24`	`johnx`	`grrr...cx3110x`
`23:11.37`	`Jaffa_`	`wazd: is it supposed to be readable? Every other row for me is white text on a white background ;-)`
`23:12.08`	`Jaffa_`	`wazd: and I'm still not convinced about how usable this design will be for new Mer pages where we haven't got you to do new headings (which Google Translate can't translate)`
`23:12.25`	`Stskeeps`	`wazd: i (personally) cling a bit to the style of current page at the moment`
`23:12.34`	`Stskeeps`	`but that's because i'm a minimalist :P`
`23:12.57`	`lcuk`	`yes Jaffa_ im interested in quick and simple. i can open visual basic here and have a rough idea specced out in a few minutes. im just wanting the same mouldable putty for my tablet`
`23:13.01`	`wazd`	`Jaffa_: I think you're right bout the headers, they are too... bright :)`
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`23:13.21`	`lcuk`	`they are also out of focus`
`23:13.49`	`jakemaheu`	`hello`
`23:13.52`	`wazd`	`Jaffa_: what browser do you use?`
`23:14.04`	`Jaffa_`	`wazd: Firefox 3`
`23:14.04`	`lcuk`	`wazd, same white banding for me`
`23:14.09`	`johnx`	`wazd, it's the same for me: white on white in ff3`
`23:14.20`	`wazd`	`whathehell...`
`23:14.23`	`lcuk`	`ooho no, they arent out of focus, its my eyes`
`23:14.25`	`Stskeeps`	`similar`
`23:14.27`	`Stskeeps`	`(ff3)`
`23:14.41`	`wazd`	`All ok, (ff3) xD`
`23:14.56`	`lcuk`	`well keep it as it is, its your name thats whited out`
`23:15.04`	`wazd`	`you have blue rows as white or black?`
`23:15.08`	`johnx`	`wazd, did you tweak your default font color?`
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`23:15.35`	`Jaffa_`	`wazd: johnx's row is white background (although it should be rgb(22, 35, 47) according to firebug`
`23:15.47`	`Jaffa_`	`Oh no, that's the row above`
`23:15.53`	`johnx`	`it's ok. my name is the important part :)`
`23:15.53`	`Jaffa_`	`The second row has no background style at all`
`23:16.37`	`*** join/#maemo Shadow_M (n=Shadow_M@vpn18-38.njit.edu)`
`23:17.11`	`Shadow_M`	`hey everyone i have an issue with flashblock with microb`
`23:17.18`	`wazd`	`Is my row ok now?`
`23:17.54`	`johnx`	`nope`
`23:18.34`	`wazd`	`ah`
`23:18.37`	`wazd`	`and now?)`
`23:18.38`	`Stskeeps`	`dies viewing the source`
`23:18.51`	`johnx`	`nope`
`23:19.00`	`Shadow_M`	`it blocks one but then duplicaztes that and puts the doubled one below it and its not blocked`
`23:19.05`	`Jaffa_`	`wazd: yes - your row is ok now`
`23:19.11`	`wazd`	`Stskeeps: I'm arranging it for reading right now)`
`23:19.17`	`johnx`	`ah, yup, last time was the charm`
`23:19.24`	`wazd`	`Jaffa_: ok, I'll fix others then`
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`23:19.56`	`wazd`	`Jaffa: no background color specification means white by default I guess`
`23:20.01`	`Jaffa_`	`Yup`
`23:20.05`	`Shadow_M`	`b-man, do you have this weird flashblock issue`
`23:20.07`	`lcuk`	`how umm maintainable is this though - its meant to be a wiki - my mind almost asploded with default wiki markup, but it looks like a minefield in there`
`23:20.07`	`wazd`	`Jaffa: not transparent as always`
`23:20.10`	`Jaffa_`	`(with the CSS defined, as it is, anyway)`
`23:20.42`	`benson`	`Either the difference in background color is _very_ subtle, or this monitor is badly tuned.`
`23:20.47`	`Stskeeps`	`wazd: i kinda worry about the effect of it .. with the current page it doesn't enforce a certain layout on rest of the pages whereas yours do`
`23:20.49`	`b-man`	`Shadow_M: from microb?`
`23:20.50`	`benson`	`(Not one I normally use.)`
`23:20.59`	`Shadow_M`	`yeah b-man`
`23:21.03`	`johnx`	`benson, a little of both probably? an old CRT?`
`23:21.08`	`benson`	`I think it might need accentuated a hair`
`23:21.09`	`benson`	`Yep.`
`23:21.12`	`Stskeeps`	`wazd: and it wouldn't be good to cause "trouble" in the editing/collaborative aspects of the pages`
`23:21.21`	`b-man`	`no, i don't use flashblock`
`23:21.37`	`Stskeeps`	`wazd: that said, it does look interesting and nicely designed :P`
`23:21.43`	`radic`	`Stskeeps: you're belonging to the group of persons woh dosn't need to sleep?!`
`23:21.45`	`Myrtti`	`rm_you: yes I am on Ravelry, with the same nickname`
`23:22.01`	`Shadow_M`	`b-man ill goto youtube to watch a video and the video will be blocked but then it makes a duplicate of that vid under it and that isnt blocked`
`23:22.06`	`Stskeeps`	`radic: i'm belonging to the group of people who are studying to recall what they learnt in calculus 6 years ago`
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`23:22.37`	`johnx`	`ugh...calc`
`23:22.54`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: this is my -last- course, hopefully ever on this masters degree`
`23:23.03`	`b-man`	`Shadow_M: 0_o that is strange`
`23:23.36`	`Shadow_M`	`yeah b-man your telling me i made that exact look when i saw it`
`23:23.56`	`b-man`	`hehe`
`23:24.26`	`b-man`	`i'd suggest that u report it to bugzilla ;)`
`23:24.29`	`benson`	`Yeah, it's more distinct on my laptop. (Of course, that's an STN, so it means little...) Probably ok.`
`23:24.54`	`Shadow_M`	`hmm alright only happened on this install`
`23:25.38`	`b-man`	`Shadow_M: have you tryed re-installing flashblock?`
`23:26.58`	`Shadow_M`	`yup numerous times how would you suggest i try it i install flashblock from repos`
`23:29.37`	`b-man`	`Shadow_M: i'm not quite shure, it looks like a re-appearing bug, i'd suggest that you report it to bugzilla`
`23:29.51`	`Shadow_M`	`hmm alright`
`23:31.25`	`b-man`	`doesn't get why glxgears works in ubuntu chroot from maemo but doesn't work in booted ubuntu`
`23:31.28`	`Shadow_M`	`version 1.5.6a-1`
`23:32.16`	`johnx`	`Stskeeps, alright, a couple quick tests and I'll call first-boot-wizard good. hopefully I'm not keeping you up ...`
`23:32.25`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: nah`
`23:32.47`	`b-man`	`Shadow_M: k`
`23:33.14`	`wazd`	`ok, now everything should be fine and code shoud be readable)`
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`23:34.45`	`lardman`	`any thoughts about the sqlite3 error: "library routine called out of sequence" returned when I try to sqlite3_open() a file?`
`23:34.59`	`Stskeeps`	`lardman: forgot some kind of _init thing?`
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`23:35.14`	`lardman`	`dunno, I didn't think it needed anything`
`23:36.20`	`Stskeeps`	`wazd: it looks good but not sure i like it for what purpose it will have (easy to use collaborative space, etc)`
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`23:36.48`	`Stskeeps`	`as it would very quickly get inconsistent when moving onto pages that would get altered a lot`
`23:37.03`	`Stskeeps`	`i'm not speaking from design POV, but from usage POV :)`
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`23:38.39`	`lardman`	`Jaffa: sorry I didn't make it, my connection was very laggy`
`23:38.53`	`wazd`	`Stskeeps: well, it would be consistent inside Mer zone. Like community, downloads, development and so on`
`23:39.18`	`Jaffa`	`lardman: no probs. You got the log?`
`23:39.24`	`Stskeeps`	`wazd: yeah.. except for instance sprints would have a more prominent role and documentation, and those would have to be rapid development and editing`
`23:39.27`	`lardman`	`yep, will take a look tomorrow`
`23:39.29`	`lardman`	`thanks`
`23:39.56`	`lcuk`	`lardman, does your sqlite stuff work normally?`
`23:40.02`	`Jaffa`	`Stskeeps: "About: is hopefully going to evolve quicly as mer itself does`
`23:40.07`	`lardman`	`lcuk: no, I can't open the db :)`
`23:40.17`	`Stskeeps`	`wazd: not saying the final homepage will be on a wiki, obviously, but for the fact we're going for a hell of a ride the next half year, we need things not to be a blocker to the progress :)`
`23:40.25`	`lcuk`	`point it at a file which doesnt exist and see if it will createi t for you`
`23:40.40`	`lcuk`	`it might be a corruption in the file you are testing with`
`23:40.50`	`lardman`	`I'd expect a better error message though`
`23:41.19`	`lcuk`	`is this the first thing you've tried to run db stuff or has it worked on earlier builds?`
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`23:41.45`	`lardman`	`nah, it probably didn't work then either, I;ve just added lots of error checking to work out why`
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`23:41.57`	`Stskeeps`	`johnx: built and good to go?`
`23:42.00`	`lardman`	`no, even when trying to create a new file it has the same odd error`
`23:42.00`	`lcuk`	`lol`
`23:42.04`	`johnx`	`Stskeeps, testing`
`23:42.06`	`Stskeeps`	`k`
`23:42.26`	`johnx`	`I'd like to try out most of the places where it can end up this time instead of just trusting it`
`23:43.07`	`wazd`	`btw, some really exciting stuff - -color- photos of Russia in 1907 http://zagony.ru/2008/06/02/cvetnye-fotografii-dorevoljucionnojj-rossii..html`
`23:44.05`	`wazd`	`this is not photoshop colorisation - everything is real)`
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`23:44.49`	`Stskeeps`	`wazd: the world was in greyscale back then, don't try to convince me otherwise ;)`
`23:44.52`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lardman, you're just racking up the blog requirements, :P`
`23:44.54`	`AStorm`	`wazd: one of the first :)`
`23:45.06`	`johnx`	`wazd, aaah! I recognize that photo of the guy on the river :)`
`23:45.06`	`lcuk`	`lardman, http://pastebin.ca/1320073`
`23:45.06`	`AStorm`	`Eastman Kodak film?`
`23:45.15`	`lardman`	`GeneralAntilles: well I reckon if I hold off long enough I'll be voted out before that happens :p`
`23:45.16`	`wazd`	`AStorm: nooo`
`23:45.18`	`johnx`	`I even know the technique used :)`
`23:45.28`	`wazd`	`AStorm: this guy was a real genius`
`23:45.30`	`lcuk`	`wazd, i remember seeing those photos on zzz.com.ru back in the day :)`
`23:45.35`	`GeneralAntilles`	`lardman, then they transfer over to cases of beer. :P`
`23:45.49`	`lardman`	`lol`
`23:45.58`	`wazd`	`AStorm: he made 3 photos with green, blue and red filters`
`23:46.06`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Though I don't drink`
`23:46.12`	`GeneralAntilles`	`So I think I'll make that pounds of bacon.`
`23:46.13`	`AStorm`	`ahh, like Technicolor ;P`
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`23:46.24`	`lcuk`	`mmmmmmmm`
`23:46.26`	`AStorm`	`and probably then used proper dyes`
`23:46.37`	`wazd`	`AStorm: and after century negatives were remastered in PS`
`23:46.46`	`AStorm`	`ahha`
`23:46.47`	`lardman`	`lcuk: thanks, the only difference is that I'm using a literal string, not a var, perhaps that's an issue`
`23:46.55`	`AStorm`	`:)`
`23:46.59`	`lcuk`	`shouldnt imagine so`
`23:47.02`	`wazd`	`I'm really shocked bout the quality`
`23:47.13`	`Stskeeps`	`yes, they look better than the n800 webcam.`
`23:47.13`	`Stskeeps`	`:P`
`23:47.17`	`lcuk`	`(by the way, is the code documented properly, its the kind of thing the library examples will look like)`
`23:47.36`	`wazd`	`They look like super-expensive today's monsters`
`23:47.50`	`lcuk`	`lolol Stskeeps`
`23:48.02`	`GeneralAntilles`	`wazd, there are some earlier color photos around somewhere.`
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`23:48.22`	`AStorm`	`wazd: greyscale film of the time was excellent`
`23:48.29`	`AStorm`	`GeneralAntilles: nah, not really`
`23:48.43`	`GeneralAntilles`	`AStorm, yes, yeah really.`
`23:48.57`	`lcuk`	`AStorm, greyscale film now is excellent as well :) 3x resolution of colored`
`23:49.22`	`lardman`	`ah, I think it now dawns on me`
`23:49.23`	`wazd`	`I should try to make that kind of photographs`
`23:49.27`	`GeneralAntilles`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Ducos_du_Hauron`
`23:49.47`	`lcuk`	`i want a true proper high resolution greyscale monitor`
`23:49.50`	`AStorm`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_photography - hmm, 1907 has first practical color`
`23:49.53`	`AStorm`	`:>`
`23:49.58`	`wazd`	`GeneralAntilles: well, that looks like crap in compare :)`
`23:50.08`	`GeneralAntilles`	`sighs.`
`23:50.17`	`GeneralAntilles`	`It's a photograph, it's in color, I thought it might interest.`
`23:50.24`	`GeneralAntilles`	`Apologies for starting an argument. :roll:`
`23:50.26`	`lcuk`	`wazd, the first phone call sounded like crap`
`23:50.45`	`wazd`	`lcuk: I mean in compare with that triplex technology`
`23:50.48`	`lcuk`	`actually, thats no good`
`23:50.51`	`lcuk`	`they still sound crap`
`23:50.56`	`wazd`	`GeneralAntilles: nono, it's still interesting!)`
`23:51.00`	`AStorm`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Mikhailovich_Prokudin-Gorskii - his method? :P`
`23:51.20`	`wazd`	`AStorm: yeah`
`23:51.36`	`lcuk`	`lol AStorm this guy reminds me of GeneralAntilles :D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alleia_Hamerops_composite.jpg`
`23:51.39`	`wazd`	`oh, it's 1909`
`23:51.58`	`wazd`	`lcuk: xDDD`
`23:52.19`	`lcuk`	`it doesnt matter anyway, colored paintings give something a photograph never can :)`
`23:52.38`	`lcuk`	`its one thing to capture the drive and emotion of the subject, but its another to capture the artist as well`
`23:52.56`	`wazd`	`Damn, I need to get film camera and filters`
`23:53.18`	`lcuk`	`why not just use photoshop`
`23:53.21`	`wazd`	`lcuk: drawing is boring)`
`23:54.06`	`wazd`	`lcuk: well, why not just use d-slr )`
`23:54.09`	`lcuk`	`i bet most paintings will last much longer than most digital media`
`23:54.41`	`wazd`	`lcuk: paintings are good`
`23:54.55`	`wazd`	`lcuk: but drawing is sooo boring)`
`23:55.18`	`*** join/#maemo fireun (n=tako@72-160-105-207.dyn.centurytel.net)`
`23:56.01`	`lcuk`	`doodles and makes patterns and shapes and entertains his mind`
`23:56.11`	`lcuk`	`omg - we need a real crossword program on device`
`23:56.29`	`lcuk`	`a real one where we fill it in or wordsearches where we draw along the words`
`23:56.42`	`lcuk`	`:)`
`23:57.07`	`b-man`	`could see lcuk as a part-time cartoonest`
`23:57.08`	`lcuk`	`AStorm, fancy testing out your character recognition sometime soon?`
`23:57.15`	`AStorm`	`no, you don't`
`23:57.23`	`AStorm`	`it works, but I've no subitizing done yet`
`23:57.36`	`AStorm`	`w/o that, it's fairly useless`
`23:57.37`	`lcuk`	`:) no rush at all`
`23:57.37`	`Macer`	`omg this is driving me up the wall`
`23:57.47`	`Macer`	`i don't want to get rid of kubuntu on this macbook but i need the adhoc shit to work`
`23:57.49`	`AStorm`	`considering using a "lasso" algorithm`
`23:57.49`	`lcuk`	`just thinking of a way to get it tested`
`23:57.50`	`Macer`	`bastard!`
`23:58.02`	`lcuk`	`where are you in the world astorm?`
`23:58.14`	`AStorm`	`Poland, the crack of EU`
`23:58.14`	`AStorm`	`;)`
`23:59.08`	`johnx`	`AStorm, what's up with you? You snorting Poland or something? :P`
`23:59.21`	`AStorm`	`no, not that kind of crack`
`23:59.30`	`AStorm`	`the lower bottom one`
`23:59.44`	`jakemaheu`	`eewwww, yuo snort dired feces?`
`23:59.46`	`johnx`	`that's what I was asking`
`23:59.49`	`jakemaheu`	`s/yuo/you/`
`23:59.53`	`lcuk`	`AStorm, ill make sure that there is an api available for us to plugin and test different variations on the recognition`
`23:59.55`	`AStorm`	`ewww indeed`

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