| 00:00.11 | Stskeeps | in sb1 sdk |
| 00:00.16 | Stskeeps | and yes, at some point |
| 00:00.29 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at) |
| 00:00.31 | Stskeeps | wanted sdk stable first |
| 00:01.22 | StsN800 | we have a chroot x86 package builder and sb armel sdk builder atm |
| 00:01.44 | alterego | Cool |
| 00:02.25 | johnx | and native building is always a possibility for on the go dev work :) |
| 00:02.36 | tehforum | Is there a way to view cookies saved on microb? |
| 00:03.59 | alterego | tehforum: if you go to the website you can do in the location bar: 'javascript: alert(document.cookie);' :) |
| 00:04.20 | sp3000 | cat ~/.mozilla/microb/cookies.txt |
| 00:05.43 | tehforum | Ok how would i copy that cookies file to my internal memory card |
| 00:05.50 | tehforum | but that was fast :o, fast |
| 00:05.53 | tehforum | Thanks |
| 00:06.42 | Stskeeps | alterego, from earlier: i think mer post-first-boot-wizard (0.7) would need the following: an xterm (with HIM), hildon-control-panel in image, some degree of connectivity (i dont really care which as long as it works), installer working, libhildon providing libhildon-1-0 or whatever ubuntu hildon is (so we can use the -hildon packages in ubuntu); maybe building some things in extras, hildon application manager, changing themes sanely |
| 00:07.06 | alterego | cp ~/.mozilla/microb/cookies.txt /media/mmc2 |
| 00:08.10 | alterego | Right |
| 00:08.10 | alterego | So Mer needs some open versions of Nokias closed utilities. |
| 00:08.13 | tehforum | Thanks |
| 00:08.18 | johnx | yeah, in a lot of places |
| 00:08.20 | alterego | I'd be quite interested in porting ubuntu's package manager to hildon .. |
| 00:08.30 | johnx | the add/remove one? |
| 00:08.31 | tehforum | Is there a place i need get a quick reference of command to use in xterm |
| 00:08.34 | johnx | or synaptic? |
| 00:08.36 | tehforum | They'd be pretty handy |
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| 00:08.54 | StsN800 | alterego, all of the before is open though |
| 00:09.09 | alterego | Synaptic is a bit resolution hungry. |
| 00:09.17 | alterego | The update manager would be sweet though. |
| 00:09.22 | GeneralAntilles | Application Manager is open anyway. |
| 00:09.22 | tehforum | Yeah |
| 00:09.23 | StsN800 | isn't ham largely synaptic based? |
| 00:09.41 | johnx | StsN800, well they're all just apt front-ends |
| 00:09.46 | qwerty12_N800 | if it is, it doesn't show... |
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| 00:10.08 | alterego | I was thinking more gnome-app-installer and gnome-update-manager |
| 00:10.29 | tehforum | Ubuntu rocks btw |
| 00:10.34 | qwerty12_N800 | How about gdebi too? :) |
| 00:10.39 | tehforum | but i can't get sound to work in WINE |
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| 00:12.00 | alterego | StsN800: I'd seriously be interested in porting gnome-app-manager and gnome-update-manager if you want me to :) |
| 00:12.07 | alterego | s/porting/hildonizing/ |
| 00:12.37 | johnx | anything is good. just don't bring in all of libgnome* in the process :) |
| 00:12.42 | StsN800 | hehe.. it sounds a bit heavy though |
| 00:12.46 | alterego | And I promise I wont s/python/ruby/ ;) |
| 00:12.51 | alterego | StsN800: not at all. |
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| 00:13.09 | alterego | We're not talking about the 1,000's of packages ubuntu has in it's "universe". |
| 00:13.29 | StsN800 | but try get our sdk first and perhaps image |
| 00:13.30 | alterego | gnome-app-manager is pretty light weight .. |
| 00:14.26 | alterego | And it has pretty icons for the categories .. Unlike maemo ;) |
| 00:14.30 | alterego | Sorry ITOS :) |
| 00:14.53 | johnx | if you wanted to fix hildon-application-manager that would be even better of course :) |
| 00:15.05 | alterego | Is it broken? |
| 00:15.13 | alterego | I thought it was proprietary. |
| 00:15.18 | johnx | nah, it's open |
| 00:15.33 | johnx | and anything without pretty icons is b0rken of course :) |
| 00:16.16 | alterego | Is that application not the software used in IT OS? |
| 00:16.26 | johnx | same one |
| 00:16.55 | johnx | it's open source and people have already been hacking on it. Might need some logic tweaks to work nicely with ubuntu though... |
| 00:20.04 | StsN800 | johnx, oh and continual ports of diablo/fremantle dbus interfaces could be good. simply get source package, dpkg-source -x, dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -us -uc and try to see if builder agrees, if no, hack |
| 00:20.29 | johnx | "dbus interfaces" what package would that be? |
| 00:22.07 | StsN800 | tablet-browser-interface and friends |
| 00:22.39 | GeneralAntilles | alterego, s/ITOS/Maemo/g |
| 00:22.46 | StsN800 | alarmd.. |
| 00:23.04 | alterego | shudders |
| 00:23.06 | alterego | Done osso? |
| 00:23.11 | johnx | GeneralAntilles, actually, that's kind of useful to have the distinction in this case :P |
| 00:23.34 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, but it's entirely inaccuaret. |
| 00:23.55 | GeneralAntilles | alterego, reacquaint yourself with Maemo's open source components. :P |
| 00:24.04 | alterego | I was attempting to draw a line between OSS and Nokias closed binaries. What would you have me say? |
| 00:24.22 | GeneralAntilles | Well, if you're talking about h-a-m, then it's open source. :P |
| 00:24.35 | alterego | I was asking whether it was closed though :P |
| 00:25.01 | johnx | GeneralAntilles, being understood > "accuracy" |
| 00:25.09 | alterego | Heh |
| 00:25.41 | alterego | Oh crap, did I miss the meeting? |
| 00:25.43 | StsN800 | anyhow, bedtime |
| 00:26.13 | johnx | 'night StsN800. I'll put up first-boot-wizard in a bit, and maybe look at some of the other stuff on that list :) |
| 00:26.15 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, well, I didn't understand him. :P |
| 00:26.27 | johnx | GeneralAntilles, that's ok :) |
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| 00:27.42 | johnx | GeneralAntilles, so if we're just referring to the UI part of Maemo, then hildon is the official name handed down from the Nokia gods, right? |
| 00:28.13 | GeneralAntilles | Right |
| 00:28.33 | johnx | and Maemo is the overall project and the name of the distribution |
| 00:28.54 | johnx | should make a $%*&ing hierarchical chart |
| 00:29.42 | johnx | but this part always gets me: there is "maemo the overarching open source initiative" and "maemo the distro full of closed source stuff" |
| 00:29.54 | johnx | s/initiative/project or whatever |
| 00:32.08 | GeneralAntilles | There's no differentiation between the open and closed parts. :) |
| 00:32.23 | GeneralAntilles | Maemo the OS and Maemo the platform is somewhat confusing |
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| 00:34.44 | johnx | which is why it was nice when we could call the distro ITOS to differentiate it from "maemo the platform" |
| 00:35.04 | johnx | actually I like "The distro formerly known as ITOS" :) |
| 00:35.23 | `Mace | skype lite for android |
| 00:35.29 | `Mace | ! |
| 00:35.42 | johnx | had to happen eventually |
| 00:35.44 | `Mace | supposed to be put on the market tomorrow but aren't sure when it will be available |
| 00:35.54 | `Mace | first native java app from skype |
| 00:36.07 | `Mace | they're cutting out their 3rd party licenses haha |
| 00:36.21 | `Mace | this is usually the first step in becoming a conglomerate |
| 00:36.38 | `Mace | skype is on the path towards being the next vonage :) |
| 00:36.51 | Stskeeps | countdown till someone reverse engineers skype protocol... |
| 00:36.52 | lcuk | can i transfer my project from being svn hosted to git? |
| 00:37.03 | lcuk | and if so, what benefits do i get |
| 00:37.24 | `Mace | start out cheap... gather clients and customers... cut out licenses by making your own software... raise price |
| 00:37.34 | `Mace | it's the same thing apple did :) |
| 00:38.14 | johnx | and MS, if you tilt you head a little bit. :) It's the great American dream: start out small and screw everyone who helped you along the way |
| 00:38.27 | `Mace | of course! |
| 00:38.29 | `Mace | :) |
| 00:38.59 | `Mace | eventually you pass that threshhold where you have good users and clients.. |
| 00:39.08 | `Mace | and then you just start to have the people who want a hand me out |
| 00:39.10 | johnx | lcuk, git is supposed to handle distributed development better, but if svn is working for you and your other devs aren't complaining it might not be a big deal |
| 00:39.12 | `Mace | look at comcast :) |
| 00:39.52 | `Mace | i related comcast to when the city used to put salt on the corners in these box things... so people in the neighborhood could salt their sidewalks after shoveling during the winter |
| 00:40.03 | `Mace | what do you think started to happen to the salt? :) |
| 00:40.11 | lcuk | well since im not updating svn at the mo its probably for the best i look towards the future |
| 00:40.30 | lcuk | svn will get updated in the next week or so, but its not ready for now |
| 00:40.32 | `Mace | some ASSHOLE.. in a truck.. systematically went box to box stealing all the salt leaving everybody else to fend for themselves |
| 00:40.47 | `Mace | and fucked it up for everybody haha |
| 00:40.59 | johnx | `Mace, and then his truck rusted? |
| 00:41.13 | `Mace | doesn't matter.. he had more than enough salt to sell to make up for a rusted truck ;) |
| 00:41.22 | lcuk | i understand the need for truckfuls of salt, but where did he get enough lemons? |
| 00:41.44 | `Mace | comcast was in the same situation |
| 00:41.51 | `Mace | they left salt out for people because they had plenty of it |
| 00:42.11 | `Mace | and 5 people came along and used enough salt that 40 people could have used |
| 00:42.30 | johnx | then they realized they had less than they thought they did and realized they could get away with charging for it now that they're the only game in town |
| 00:42.39 | `Mace | can't blame them for being assholes with their connections .. especially when someone paying 20/month expects to download 5TB/month |
| 00:42.52 | `Mace | johnx - yeah that too :) |
| 00:43.00 | johnx | no sympathy for big cable, big telco or big wireless |
| 00:43.03 | `Mace | ATT is around here.. but their dsl is GARBAGE |
| 00:43.08 | `Mace | it's absolutely horrible |
| 00:43.24 | `Mace | i don't know if it's the archaic phone lines here or what.. but it is bad |
| 00:43.31 | `Mace | the FASTEST i could get here is 1.5mbit |
| 00:43.47 | `Mace | i tried to get them to bump it up because that really is slow as hell for today's internet connection |
| 00:43.54 | `Mace | but they said they couldn't :) how sad |
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| 00:44.11 | `Mace | you know it's bad when youtube is stuttering |
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| 00:44.22 | johnx | the symptom: crappy, expensive broadband. the cause: at most two players in any given area |
| 00:44.49 | `Mace | true |
| 00:44.58 | `Mace | there are wireless alternatives now |
| 00:45.09 | `Mace | i'm pretty sure most cell companies offer "wireless broadband internet" |
| 00:45.18 | `Mace | i didn't look into it too much tho |
| 00:45.22 | johnx | w/ a 5GB/month cap |
| 00:45.26 | `Mace | really? |
| 00:45.34 | `Mace | damn.. i'd go through that in a day |
| 00:45.48 | johnx | `Mace, you're next on the list of comcast's heavy users :P |
| 00:45.58 | `Mace | when comcast started getting antsy about their bandwidth.. i just called them up and told them to bump me up to a capless business line |
| 00:45.59 | `Mace | ;) |
| 00:46.06 | johnx | `Mace, they'll just keep going down their list starting from the top until they get to you |
| 00:46.15 | `Mace | you would be suprised how difficult it was to find information on how to get a business line |
| 00:46.26 | `Mace | i got the india indian call a long time ago saying i was using too much |
| 00:46.39 | `Mace | and asked him.. ok.. then how do i get a better line and give you mor emoney so it isn't a big deal anymore? |
| 00:46.41 | `Mace | and he had no clue |
| 00:46.51 | `Mace | lol |
| 00:46.55 | `Mace | business lines aren't capped |
| 00:46.59 | `Mace | and cost around 20/month more |
| 00:47.01 | `Mace | :) |
| 00:47.11 | `Mace | it's just simple extortion |
| 00:47.24 | `Mace | i don't mind payin gan extra 20/month to avoid the headache |
| 00:47.41 | `Mace | haha.. they already got to me once when i had a res line |
| 00:47.54 | johnx | I guess $20/month isn't bad if you're allowed to host servers on it |
| 00:47.58 | `Mace | "You have downloaded 250G and it is only 2 weeks into the month..." |
| 00:48.01 | johnx | I mean $20 more than a normal plan |
| 00:48.12 | `Mace | yeah. they had a sale on it though |
| 00:48.20 | `Mace | plus you have to sign a 2 yr lease |
| 00:48.24 | johnx | I'd setup my own little CoLo |
| 00:48.27 | `Mace | i think the 1yr lease was a little higher |
| 00:48.44 | johnx | probably couldn't get it going to an apartment :) |
| 00:48.55 | `Mace | i got this line going into my house ;) |
| 00:49.04 | `Mace | just tell them you run your business out of your apartment |
| 00:49.05 | `Mace | haha |
| 00:49.20 | `Mace | they don't really care.. they just want the money |
| 00:49.36 | johnx | apartments are usually just one option though unless you can get wimax or want to use 3G |
| 00:49.39 | `Mace | only kids can't pay extra money for more bandwidth ;) which is who they are trying to cut off |
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| 00:49.50 | `Mace | wimax! blah |
| 00:49.57 | `Mace | i was hoping they had it here in chicago but no go |
| 00:50.01 | `Mace | it's still "planned" |
| 00:50.04 | `Mace | whatever :) |
| 00:50.27 | `Mace | so i went to tmob and got my g1 |
| 00:50.28 | johnx | nah, two birds with one stone: get rid of their biggest users to avoid having to improve their infrastructure and get money out of everyone else |
| 00:50.34 | `Mace | att's 3G SUCKED |
| 00:50.43 | `Mace | it was constantly cut off.. their voice service went straight to shit too |
| 00:50.48 | `Mace | i think they're cutting off towers to save money |
| 00:51.12 | `Mace | they have a good infrastructure |
| 00:51.13 | johnx | they're moving more spectrum from EDGE to 3G now though |
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| 00:51.20 | `Mace | one thing i can say about comcast.. they do keep up with good speed |
| 00:51.36 | johnx | won't last with everyone hitting youtube all the time |
| 00:51.37 | `Mace | i have rarely if ever had a problem with them other than the long wait for the install |
| 00:51.51 | `Mace | naw.. eventually it will level down |
| 00:52.07 | johnx | Video-over-IP is the future though |
| 00:52.08 | `Mace | plus i'm sure they lost a lot of users during the economic crash |
| 00:52.18 | `Mace | i dunno |
| 00:52.21 | johnx | that's the direction it's going |
| 00:52.22 | `Mace | most people just want to talk on the phone |
| 00:52.23 | `Mace | ;) |
| 00:52.36 | johnx | comcast or AT&T? |
| 00:52.39 | `Mace | being on camera to most people is kind of a pain |
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| 00:53.03 | `Mace | stage fright and shit.. only time i ever use my webcam is to talk to my little son when i'm at work |
| 00:53.15 | `Mace | other than that i could care less to SEE anybody that i need to talk to |
| 00:53.21 | johnx | errr...I meant youtube/TV-over-IP will kill comcast, not video-chat will kill t-mo/att |
| 00:53.29 | `Mace | haha |
| 00:53.32 | `Mace | usenet will before that |
| 00:53.33 | `Mace | ;) |
| 00:53.40 | johnx | nah,they killed usnet first |
| 00:53.47 | `Mace | no way |
| 00:53.53 | `Mace | usenet is still going pretty strong |
| 00:53.56 | johnx | everyone's dropping it though |
| 00:54.02 | `Mace | wow really? |
| 00:54.07 | johnx | the ISPs I mean |
| 00:54.09 | `Mace | oh.. maybe their personal servers |
| 00:54.11 | `Mace | yeah |
| 00:54.18 | `Mace | the isps aren't serving it anymore |
| 00:54.28 | `Mace | which means $40/month is going to giganews ;) |
| 00:54.34 | `Mace | x 189237928137189372 |
| 00:54.46 | `Mace | for the price of buying 1 bray a month |
| 00:54.49 | johnx | right, but people are watching TV over the internet |
| 00:54.57 | `Mace | you can download 500 |
| 00:55.11 | `Mace | i've never really done that |
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| 00:55.25 | `Mace | honestly don't even know how to tell you the truth.. i'd probably do it if my popcornhour box supported it |
| 00:55.49 | johnx | been watching CES coverage? new TVs have it built in |
| 00:56.07 | johnx | youtube / netflix / amazon / some with hulu I think |
| 00:56.10 | `Mace | i download the shows i want.. only time i watch something would be local sports or the news |
| 00:56.23 | `Mace | which i could get ota |
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| 00:56.30 | `Mace | with my tv's digital tuner ;) |
| 00:56.49 | johnx | you could get it OTA, but you don't because it's on when you don't feel like watching TV :) |
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| 00:57.20 | `Mace | no.. i watch the local news every now and then ota |
| 00:57.25 | `Mace | signal isn't that bad either |
| 00:57.40 | `Mace | was expecting it to skip a lot more than it does.. i'll probably get a stutter once a day |
| 00:57.48 | `Mace | ok.. i'm going to go to the store |
| 00:57.56 | `Mace | waiting on skype to get released onto the google market soon :) |
| 00:57.59 | `Mace | haha |
| 00:58.06 | `Mace | tmob 3G is pretty good |
| 00:58.13 | `Mace | i downloaded like 3G on it so far |
| 00:58.18 | johnx | I'll keep it in mind :) |
| 00:58.20 | `Mace | 3Gigabytes |
| 00:58.21 | `Mace | heh |
| 00:58.37 | `Mace | want to see how long it takes before they comcast me :) |
| 00:58.57 | `Mace | they are probably allowing people to get away with murder in order to test their network out for android |
| 00:58.59 | johnx | I think after 5GB they'll drop you to EDGE or something |
| 00:59.02 | johnx | don't remember |
| 00:59.15 | `Mace | well. there is only one way to find out! |
| 00:59.16 | `Mace | :) |
| 00:59.33 | `Mace | although when i'm home i can just use the wifi |
| 00:59.43 | `Mace | mp4s that i play on the phone are like 150MB/hr |
| 00:59.55 | `Mace | and i only download them when i'm desperate and forgot to copy something to watch onto it |
| 01:00.19 | `Mace | ok.. ttyl |
| 01:00.22 | johnx | 'later |
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| 01:16.04 | pupnik | it's cold |
| 01:16.09 | johnx | yes |
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| 01:19.47 | pupnik | oh god help me |
| 01:20.43 | johnx | space heater |
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| 01:46.37 | johnx | error checking always taks more code than the actual program :/ |
| 01:51.48 | johnx | wonders about localizing bash scripts |
| 01:54.43 | lcuk | johnx, every single line of code can fail |
| 01:55.15 | johnx | but users fail twice as much as code |
| 01:55.50 | lcuk | no, badly written code will consistantly perform badly, even a stupid human will get it right some of the time ;) |
| 01:55.52 | johnx | thankfully I have adduer to check username validity |
| 01:56.33 | lcuk | heh, my users failed because of damned "." |
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| 02:49.33 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, shit, I see what you mean by 2TB. . . . |
| 02:49.35 | GeneralAntilles | Bleh |
| 02:51.43 | johnx | we should see it on linux devices with a kernel update |
| 02:57.41 | *** join/#maemo bergwolf (n=bergwolf@2001:da8:215:1800:20d:87ff:fe05:44b) |
| 02:59.19 | GeneralAntilles | But exFAT? |
| 03:06.24 | johnx | wow...that's really messed up that there can't be an open source implementation |
| 03:06.40 | johnx | guess MS got the SD association under their heal finally |
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| 03:17.53 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, "standards" |
| 03:17.57 | GeneralAntilles | What are these people thinking? :\ |
| 03:18.56 | johnx | I was just giving linux a big pat on the back for finally having really reliable ntfs read/write support...seriously though...exfat? even xp users are screwed |
| 03:19.16 | johnx | but xp users are MS's enemy just as much as mac or linux users are :/ |
| 03:21.40 | GeneralAntilles | Maybe Microsoft will open it up when Summer comes. :P |
| 03:22.05 | johnx | that has the potential to be much worse than a straight reverse engineering job |
| 03:22.34 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (n=befr0d@190.69.214.175) |
| 03:23.17 | johnx | seriously, there isn't even an up-to-date patch for the linux kernel it seems. Bet that'll change pretty quick when these hit the streets though |
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| 03:23.52 | johnx | bah, such a SNAFU. but not thinking about it, AFK |
| 03:25.31 | GeneralAntilles | Mess up shit |
| 03:25.46 | GeneralAntilles | You wonder who the hell is on the committees that decide this nonsense |
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| 03:55.07 | TheFatal | hello |
| 03:55.29 | TheFatal | can any1 help me ? |
| 04:01.49 | LinuxCode | just ask |
| 04:01.53 | LinuxCode | if anyone can they will |
| 04:02.19 | LinuxCode | saying that its 4-5am in Europe |
| 04:02.29 | TheFatal | :O |
| 04:02.30 | TheFatal | ok |
| 04:02.30 | LinuxCode | and US east coast must be 12am |
| 04:02.35 | LinuxCode | so... |
| 04:02.43 | LinuxCode | many people wont be around |
| 04:02.43 | TheFatal | i have a problem whit maemo-mapper |
| 04:03.24 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 04:04.13 | TheFatal | in console: "Segmentation fault (core dumped)" when i try to run maemo-mapper |
| 04:04.27 | LinuxCode | TheFatal, that sounds fatal |
| 04:04.37 | LinuxCode | reinstall |
| 04:04.43 | LinuxCode | if it persists there is a bug |
| 04:05.41 | TheFatal | there is a bug, becos i reinstall the soft and the fw |
| 04:07.13 | GeneralAntilles | Reinstall wont help |
| 04:07.17 | GeneralAntilles | Delete your dbs |
| 04:07.27 | TheFatal | -.- who ? |
| 04:07.29 | TheFatal | how ? |
| 04:08.20 | TheFatal | fk tip xD |
| 04:08.20 | TheFatal | what i have to do ? |
| 04:13.49 | TheFatal | how to remove dbs ? |
| 04:14.10 | GeneralAntilles | Wherever you defined them |
| 04:14.12 | GeneralAntilles | Delete them. |
| 04:15.28 | TheFatal | but i have no idea where there are... :S |
| 04:15.53 | GeneralAntilles | Maybe Home if you didn't move them. . . . |
| 04:16.28 | TheFatal | poi.db ¡¡ |
| 04:16.30 | TheFatal | ?? |
| 04:16.39 | GeneralAntilles | That's one. |
| 04:17.29 | TheFatal | no |
| 04:17.43 | TheFatal | the same msj error |
| 04:17.49 | TheFatal | the same error mesage |
| 04:20.47 | TheFatal | The same error message |
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| 04:35.56 | MaceN800 | well |
| 04:36.15 | MaceN800 | wonder wha to do |
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| 05:39.55 | MaceN800 | hm... something a boutthe girl with the bone on her head |
| 05:40.01 | MaceN800 | in babylon5 kind of turns me on |
| 05:40.25 | MaceN800 | OK *cough* |
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| 06:12.21 | pupnik | ces 2009 - netbooks netbooks netbooks |
| 06:12.27 | pupnik | is nokia there? |
| 06:15.04 | MaceN800 | hm |
| 06:16.06 | MaceN800 | pupnik, skype announced an official android program |
| 06:16.16 | MaceN800 | first java skype made by skype |
| 06:17.24 | MaceN800 | thank god because all they have is iskoot |
| 06:17.37 | MaceN800 | which is absolute garbage |
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| 06:18.09 | MaceN800 | it uses minutes to use skype.. uses call forwarding through the voice channel rather than actual pkkt data |
| 06:18.13 | MaceN800 | they should be lined up and shot |
| 06:18.22 | MaceN800 | the whole dev team |
| 06:20.06 | GeneralAntilles | pupnik, not in a Maemo capacity |
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| 06:22.39 | ShadowJK | MaceN800, fringe does skype, voip and a bunch of others over data... |
| 06:22.46 | ShadowJK | uh, fring |
| 06:23.06 | MaceN800 | no fring for android |
| 06:23.23 | MaceN800 | i'll just wait for an official skype release |
| 06:23.27 | pupnik | nokia is not being effective in the media-space |
| 06:23.39 | pupnik | god damn google |
| 06:23.44 | MaceN800 | haha |
| 06:23.50 | MaceN800 | android is absolutely awesome |
| 06:23.51 | GeneralAntilles | Eh, there's nothing to talk about Maemo-wise. |
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| 06:23.59 | GeneralAntilles | Especially not for a consumer electronics show |
| 06:24.08 | MaceN800 | nokia should do a major update to symbian to compete prretty soon |
| 06:24.23 | MaceN800 | keep the base but make it a little prettier to use |
| 06:24.28 | pupnik | i could think of nice media apperances |
| 06:24.39 | pupnik | nice model woman, wearing 3 n810s |
| 06:25.01 | GeneralAntilles | N810 is basically EOL |
| 06:25.17 | pupnik | yeah |
| 06:25.34 | GeneralAntilles | There'll be fanfare and media coverage when the RX-51's out. |
| 06:25.34 | MaceN800 | maemo needs to look nicer too |
| 06:25.38 | pupnik | the display could be screenshot nipples |
| 06:25.48 | MaceN800 | i don't know.. after getting my g1.. nokia seems behind the running |
| 06:25.54 | GeneralAntilles | MaceN800, compared to what? :\ |
| 06:25.59 | pupnik | pls explain MaceN800 |
| 06:26.02 | pupnik | srsly |
| 06:26.05 | GeneralAntilles | It looks better than almost everything else as-is. |
| 06:26.16 | MaceN800 | i think android is better |
| 06:26.23 | GeneralAntilles | Meh |
| 06:26.25 | MaceN800 | then again android has stronger hardware |
| 06:26.30 | GeneralAntilles | Either way, who cares? |
| 06:26.33 | MaceN800 | but my n95 is very strong |
| 06:26.36 | GeneralAntilles | Android is a cellular platform |
| 06:26.43 | MaceN800 | and runs symbian which looks like it is from the mid 90s |
| 06:26.59 | MaceN800 | so is symbian |
| 06:27.08 | MaceN800 | and it has been the same for about a decade |
| 06:27.09 | pupnik | ok wait |
| 06:27.13 | MaceN800 | :) |
| 06:27.19 | GeneralAntilles | MaceN800, #maemo not #symbian |
| 06:27.22 | pupnik | google phone manages your data in web-apps |
| 06:27.24 | pupnik | right? |
| 06:27.26 | GeneralAntilles | We don't much care about cellular platforms |
| 06:27.29 | MaceN800 | well. he said "nokia..." |
| 06:27.35 | pupnik | MaceN800: |
| 06:27.43 | MaceN800 | and android is more a portable platform |
| 06:27.48 | MaceN800 | the cell part is more of a bonus |
| 06:27.56 | MaceN800 | the n900 will have a built in utms modem |
| 06:28.01 | LinuxCode | eneralAntilles> There'll be fanfare and media coverage when the RX-51's out. |
| 06:28.06 | MaceN800 | so does that make maemo a cell platform too? |
| 06:28.11 | pupnik | any |
| 06:28.11 | LinuxCode | rx-51 ? is that linux based ? |
| 06:28.12 | pupnik | any |
| 06:28.15 | pupnik | platform |
| 06:28.27 | pupnik | that is based upon transferring private data to a 'free' service |
| 06:28.34 | GeneralAntilles | LinuxCode, RX-51 is the next tablet |
| 06:28.38 | GeneralAntilles | using OMAP3 |
| 06:28.42 | pupnik | is a total-information-awareness trojan |
| 06:28.46 | GeneralAntilles | We don't know that it'll be called "N900" |
| 06:28.48 | LinuxCode | based on linux though ? |
| 06:28.54 | GeneralAntilles | But we do know it's current device code is RX-51 |
| 06:28.55 | GeneralAntilles | Er? |
| 06:28.56 | MaceN800 | pupnik, haha |
| 06:29.04 | GeneralAntilles | LinuxCode, it's the next Maemo tablet. . . . |
| 06:29.07 | pupnik | so as long as 'android' is based on google apps |
| 06:29.09 | LinuxCode | col |
| 06:29.10 | pupnik | fuck it |
| 06:29.15 | LinuxCode | I just had to check |
| 06:29.17 | LinuxCode | ;-p |
| 06:29.21 | GeneralAntilles | MaceN800, voice is cellular |
| 06:29.23 | GeneralAntilles | Data really isn't |
| 06:29.24 | LinuxCode | I was getting worried for a moment |
| 06:29.35 | MaceN800 | GeneralAntilles, because you can talk on it? |
| 06:29.45 | LinuxCode | GeneralAntilles, i take it thats the device ari was talking about |
| 06:29.46 | MaceN800 | yu can use skype on an n800... voice is always data nowadays |
| 06:29.56 | pupnik | skype is also a trojan |
| 06:30.01 | GeneralAntilles | Because the regulatory and carry requirements that apply to voice are different from the ones that apply to data-only. |
| 06:30.02 | LinuxCode | with 3g/umts ? |
| 06:30.02 | MaceN800 | heh |
| 06:30.12 | pupnik | i'm tellin you |
| 06:30.41 | MaceN800 | pupnik, i have yet to try the android flash on my n800 |
| 06:30.53 | GeneralAntilles | MaceN800, whatever you may believe it to be, or whatever it may actually be, it doesn't have a whole lot to do with what carriers and regulatory industries believe it to be. :) |
| 06:30.54 | MaceN800 | since it is rather immature |
| 06:31.01 | GeneralAntilles | and cellular is a different formfactor |
| 06:31.12 | MaceN800 | heh |
| 06:31.19 | MaceN800 | you're just playing symantics |
| 06:31.38 | MaceN800 | android is not a "cellular" platform.. it is a portable platform |
| 06:31.48 | MaceN800 | just as palm used to be.. then it moved onto phones |
| 06:32.33 | pupnik | yeah well the time is coming |
| 06:32.41 | pupnik | when we will need communication |
| 06:32.54 | pupnik | store-and-forward bluetooth fidonet |
| 06:32.58 | pupnik | understand, fuckers? |
| 06:33.00 | MaceN800 | i'm just saying that nokia's software is rather dated |
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| 06:33.48 | LinuxCode | pupnik, you drunk ? |
| 06:34.25 | pupnik | store and forward, fucker |
| 06:34.55 | LinuxCode | lol |
| 06:35.19 | LinuxCode | takes that as a yes |
| 06:35.44 | pupnik | and you are what, 27 years old? |
| 06:36.04 | LinuxCode | is that even relevant ? |
| 06:36.16 | pupnik | i want to know how close my guess is |
| 06:36.26 | MaceN800 | hm |
| 06:37.10 | pupnik | there is a point to open-source |
| 06:37.14 | pupnik | in case you haven't noticed |
| 06:37.36 | pupnik | bitch-ass consumer titsucker |
| 06:38.40 | LinuxCode | i dont think you will find standard consumers here |
| 06:38.52 | LinuxCode | I also dont think standard consumers get a N810 tbh |
| 06:38.58 | pupnik | wish they would |
| 06:39.04 | pupnik | but they are fucking apes |
| 06:39.10 | LinuxCode | maybe |
| 06:39.17 | LinuxCode | but there is hope |
| 06:39.24 | LinuxCode | consumers are buying eepcs |
| 06:39.29 | LinuxCode | thats a first step |
| 06:39.45 | pupnik | good point |
| 06:39.47 | LinuxCode | to make people realize there is more than MS |
| 06:42.04 | pupnik | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:49.19 | solmumaha | 404 not found |
| 06:53.52 | ljp | it is if he needs someone to buy him more beer |
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| 08:30.58 | RST38h | moo all |
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| 08:40.33 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
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| 08:47.14 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@44.84-49-128.nextgentel.com) |
| 08:47.41 | Jaffa | Bah, the Diablo reference manual being all PDFs makes it impossible to quickly find, and then link to, a specific part of maemo (e.g. alarmd) to give out to people |
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| 09:11.46 | MaceN800 | hi |
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| 09:17.44 | t_s_o | hmm, looking at the CES coverage it seems as if the economy is still going at full tilt... |
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| 09:37.12 | X-Fade | ~curse spamassassin for breaking the lists _again_ |
| 09:37.13 | infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, spamassassin for breaking the lists _again_ ! |
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| 09:38.50 | RST38h | t_s_o: Don't worry, the next time they will all be showing heated soup caps and electric blankets =) |
| 09:38.58 | RST38h | s/caps/cups/ hm |
| 09:39.19 | t_s_o | time will tell i guess ;) |
| 09:40.20 | RST38h | t_s_o: On the other hands, there is LHC! |
| 09:40.23 | RST38h | So maybe not |
| 09:40.31 | t_s_o | ... |
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| 09:44.07 | Stskeeps | morning |
| 09:48.29 | *** join/#maemo ignacius (n=ignacius@112.Red-83-33-242.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
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| 10:09.50 | Stskeeps | X-Fade: any news on the meeting log? :) |
| 10:11.08 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at) |
| 10:11.29 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: I'll have to step out for 10 minutes, but after that I will upload it. |
| 10:11.36 | Stskeeps | alright, thanks :) |
| 10:11.46 | Stskeeps | (much appreciated) |
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| 10:27.54 | lcuk | gulp |
| 10:29.33 | Stskeeps | morning lcuk |
| 10:34.12 | alterego | Hello folks. |
| 10:34.34 | alterego | I want one of those TI beagle boards + DLP Pico projectors :) |
| 10:34.34 | Stskeeps | morning |
| 10:34.38 | Stskeeps | hehe |
| 10:34.55 | Stskeeps | beagleboard is cute, but it had a tendancy to bring out the worst in my sd cards |
| 10:35.02 | florian | alterego: I can confirm that this combination is a nice toy. |
| 10:35.09 | alterego | It's strange, that I was predicting devices would have the hardware we have _now_ about 10 years ago :) |
| 10:35.16 | alterego | florian: :P |
| 10:35.42 | alterego | florian: Did you get the TI devkit? Or separately? The projectors cost £250 on their own. |
| 10:36.05 | florian | currently tests if latest kernels do what I need |
| 10:36.37 | alterego | OMAP3 kernel? |
| 10:36.46 | florian | alterego: no i had the board already but not much time to do somethign useful with it |
| 10:36.52 | florian | alterego: yes |
| 10:36.55 | alterego | Cool, |
| 10:37.13 | alterego | I plan on building a 3D DVB-T PVR |
| 10:37.48 | alterego | I want to do things like cover-flow with TV channels :) |
| 10:38.00 | alterego | I'll need another DVB tuner dongle (making 2) |
| 10:38.17 | alterego | I've already starting writing the code. |
| 10:40.26 | florian | alterego: nice |
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| 10:40.56 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/maemo-meeting-2009-01-07.html |
| 10:41.51 | Stskeeps | thanks! :) |
| 10:43.16 | solmumaha | alterego: don't get sidetracked here :) |
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| 10:43.36 | alterego | I have plenty of time to go around :P |
| 10:44.53 | lcuk | mornin Stskeeps |
| 10:45.27 | aleksiL_ | Xterm on my n810 is showing dark grey as black. Is there a fix or a workaround? |
| 10:46.13 | alterego | Clean the screen? :) |
| 10:46.39 | *** join/#maemo alextreme (n=alex@82-171-161-1.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 10:47.02 | alterego | aleksiL_: Menu->Tools->Settings (Background Colour) |
| 10:47.11 | lcuk | increase brightness |
| 10:47.23 | aleksiL_ | Tried both. |
| 10:47.35 | alterego | Have you tried turning the device off and on? |
| 10:47.58 | alterego | I've never seen this happen without someone changing the desktop background. Maybe you should submit a bug report. |
| 10:48.21 | Stskeeps | alterego: there's a bugfix in libvte for this, i believe |
| 10:48.29 | Stskeeps | er |
| 10:48.31 | Stskeeps | aleksiL_: |
| 10:48.31 | alterego | Ah |
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| 10:55.13 | aleksiL_ | Stskeeps, how do I install it? |
| 10:56.15 | Stskeeps | building it from osso-xterm trunk i think |
| 11:01.55 | aleksiL_ | And how do I do that? :) |
| 11:05.16 | Stskeeps | two ways. prodding osso-xterm developers or grabbing diablo SDK and grabbing the svn trunk inside and dpkg-buildpackage it :P |
| 11:06.56 | *** join/#maemo caio1982 (i=caio1982@CAcert-br/caio1982) |
| 11:07.31 | *** join/#maemo Guest1736_075 (n=c8c7efb6@chathostplus.com) |
| 11:09.37 | aleksiL_ | The only tinkering I've done so far is following step-by-step guides to resolve specific issues. Where could I find a newbie-friendly introduction to this stuff? |
| 11:16.02 | lardman | morning |
| 11:16.21 | Jaffa | lo lardman |
| 11:16.41 | lardman | ah, need to email the council don't I |
| 11:16.45 | *** join/#maemo herzi (n=herzi@p578EB3CD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:16.54 | lardman | speaking of which, I've not seen any other emails either |
| 11:21.20 | pupnik | lardman's girlfriend is cute |
| 11:21.35 | lardman | random comment of the day? |
| 11:21.37 | lardman | :) |
| 11:21.50 | lardman | but thanks |
| 11:22.00 | alterego | Hah |
| 11:22.02 | pupnik | she has good taste |
| 11:22.16 | lardman | well that's debatable hey? :) |
| 11:22.20 | alterego | Did you just say his girlfriend tastes nice? |
| 11:22.30 | alterego | chuckles. |
| 11:22.44 | lardman | sees we've already started down the slippery slope.... |
| 11:22.48 | pupnik | no. it was just nice to meet him |
| 11:22.50 | lcuk | pupnik, that wasnt a picture of lardmans girlfriend i sent you - it was a picture of lardman in his girlfriends dress |
| 11:22.52 | pupnik | and her |
| 11:23.00 | alterego | Hahg |
| 11:23.21 | lardman | lcuk: oi! I hope you've fed Jake at some point, is he still reving the Citroen to melt it? ;) |
| 11:23.33 | lcuk | :D ive solved problem :D:D:D:D:D |
| 11:23.38 | lcuk | it melted but still failed |
| 11:23.50 | pupnik | still the highlight of berlin (or lowlight) |
| 11:23.55 | pupnik | was getting lost with lcuk |
| 11:24.00 | lcuk | so i had an epic battle with the fuse box and battery stuff |
| 11:24.02 | pupnik | "haven't we been here before"? |
| 11:24.27 | lardman | pupnik & lcuk: lol |
| 11:24.37 | johnx | lcuk, yeah, electrical stuff is no fun |
| 11:24.40 | lardman | we did that too a couple of times |
| 11:25.39 | pupnik | no, wait. highlight was the beer garden |
| 11:25.52 | lardman | or rather the beer therein :) |
| 11:25.52 | pupnik | in that park place |
| 11:26.36 | pupnik | it was just awesome |
| 11:26.50 | pupnik | i was like, overhearing drunken conversations by other people |
| 11:26.55 | pupnik | that i wanted to hear |
| 11:26.56 | Stskeeps | morning johnx |
| 11:27.07 | pupnik | unlike the typical bar situation |
| 11:27.18 | johnx | mornin Stskeeps |
| 11:27.21 | pupnik | it was like 'wait what r u talkin bout' |
| 11:27.39 | pupnik | man |
| 11:28.09 | pupnik | johnx, were you at linuxtag? |
| 11:28.33 | johnx | nope. where will it be this year? |
| 11:28.38 | lcuk | yes, beer garden was fun, getting lost was fun(ish) |
| 11:28.50 | lardman | johnx: somewhere with beer |
| 11:28.55 | lardman | :) |
| 11:29.12 | johnx | woo! linuxtag at my apartment |
| 11:29.40 | lcuk | lardman, i wanna get down to london sometime in the next few weeks, fancy a beer? (plus anyone else if we can arrange proper times) |
| 11:30.20 | lcuk | (ps, typical daytime i keep having to vanish) |
| 11:30.59 | lardman | lcuk: I'm pretty busy atm I'm afraid, not sure I'll be making it to London for a while |
| 11:31.16 | johnx | same here :P |
| 11:31.26 | lardman | give qwerty12_N800 a shout when you're there though |
| 11:31.30 | lardman | johnx: :D |
| 11:32.12 | lcuk | lol yeah i forgot you werent that close |
| 11:32.28 | lardman | bloody Northerners! ;) |
| 11:32.47 | lcuk | well london is practically commutable for you |
| 11:32.55 | johnx | lardman, How long is it by train to London? |
| 11:32.57 | lardman | yeah, 1hr40 or so |
| 11:33.06 | johnx | pssh, that's nothing |
| 11:33.07 | lardman | +tube after that |
| 11:33.19 | lardman | Manchester to London can't be much longer than that |
| 11:33.59 | lcuk | at least 3 days hiking |
| 11:34.33 | lcuk | we dont have them new fangled iron horses here yet |
| 11:34.48 | lardman | or they freeze due to the subarctic conditions ;) |
| 11:35.14 | *** join/#maemo RichiH (i=richih@freenode/staff/richih) |
| 11:35.22 | lcuk | yeah, and its no fun pouring water from a bottle on your window at 70mph! |
| 11:35.34 | RichiH | i am aware that this is not quite the correct channel, but does anyone know when the nokia n97 will be released? |
| 11:35.40 | lardman | infobot: why did you suddenly pipe up? |
| 11:35.40 | infobot | I did *WHAT*?! |
| 11:35.45 | glass | RichiH: next summer |
| 11:35.50 | RichiH | lardman: because i joine |
| 11:35.51 | RichiH | d |
| 11:35.57 | RichiH | glass: bleh :( |
| 11:36.02 | lardman | ah, you're obviously special :) |
| 11:36.05 | *** join/#maemo _berto_ (n=berto@fanzine.igalia.com) |
| 11:36.05 | lcuk | i thought they released it? |
| 11:36.12 | lcuk | or was that just showboating? |
| 11:36.16 | glass | lcuk: announced != relased |
| 11:36.16 | lardman | they had a pre-launch iirc |
| 11:36.18 | RichiH | lardman: historic reasons |
| 11:36.28 | lardman | RichiH: no worries, just wondering |
| 11:36.34 | lcuk | bbl |
| 11:36.42 | glass | lcuk: they generally announce tech flagships way ahead of release |
| 11:37.01 | lardman | hmm, where's the announce on the n900... |
| 11:37.10 | glass | lcuk: other phone manufs do the same.. at least nokia mostly releases those tech flagships |
| 11:37.17 | glass | urgh |
| 11:37.17 | RichiH | a n900 has been announced? |
| 11:37.22 | glass | meant lardman |
| 11:37.27 | RichiH | atm, i am kinda waiting for the pandora |
| 11:37.35 | lardman | RichiH: not really, other than with info from the next SDK |
| 11:37.51 | lardman | RichiH: more of waiting than kinda ;) |
| 11:38.40 | RichiH | lardman: don't tell anyone, but they will start shipping in feb at the latest |
| 11:38.50 | lardman | hmm |
| 11:38.56 | RichiH | (tell anyone you like :p ) |
| 11:39.24 | RichiH | but yah, if i am lucky, i might be able to take a full prototype or even one of the first finished ones to fosdem |
| 11:39.47 | lardman | I'm still torn, will probably get one anyway |
| 11:39.55 | RichiH | i _will_ bring a devboard for the embedian people to play with |
| 11:40.17 | lardman | RichiH: are you involved in the project? |
| 11:40.43 | RichiH | lardman: no, but i know one of the lead devs |
| 11:40.48 | lardman | ok |
| 11:41.04 | RichiH | wonders when maemo will run on the pandora ;) |
| 11:41.11 | Stskeeps | mer prolly will very easy. |
| 11:41.23 | RichiH | Stskeeps: i suspect so, as well |
| 11:41.39 | johnx | RichiH, working on it ... |
| 11:41.45 | RichiH | if anyone will be at fosdem, i could poke ED about a second devboard |
| 11:41.53 | Stskeeps | and since it works on x86 already.. :P |
| 11:42.00 | RichiH | johnx: ah. do you have a devbboard? |
| 11:42.03 | Stskeeps | .. and a zaurus |
| 11:42.05 | RichiH | Stskeeps: it's arm |
| 11:42.08 | Stskeeps | i know |
| 11:42.51 | RST38h | Feb 2010? |
| 11:42.57 | johnx | RichiH, nope, but if the pandora boots ubuntu and has an x server, then maemo on mer is easy |
| 11:43.46 | RichiH | johnx: it runs angstroem |
| 11:44.01 | RichiH | but gentoo, debian & ubuntu are being worked on, as well |
| 11:44.26 | johnx | exactly :) |
| 11:48.00 | lardman | so end of feb is the current shipping prediction then? |
| 11:48.13 | johnx | I'd bet march on the safe side |
| 11:48.33 | johnx | and I hope it's in march or I'll need to have them ship to a different address (!) |
| 11:48.39 | lardman | yeah, that was my prediction |
| 11:48.55 | lardman | I hope it's December, no wait, that's already gone |
| 11:48.58 | johnx | did you see the "mini-roadmap" post |
| 11:49.05 | lardman | yep |
| 11:49.17 | johnx | it looked awfully optimistic to make a feb shipping date |
| 11:49.27 | lardman | yeah |
| 11:49.46 | johnx | and if it is out in feb I'll be pleasantly proven wrong :) |
| 11:51.04 | lardman | wonders what other cool hw will be about in March |
| 11:52.22 | johnx | well, if CES is anything to go by: a couple more crappy MIDs and a decent atom-based netbook from HP |
| 11:53.15 | johnx | the ARM-based and MIPS-based netbooks seem to be either targeted at Asian countries (not Japan either...) or coming out late this year |
| 11:53.38 | lardman | hmm, not too exciting then |
| 11:53.49 | johnx | yeah, I'm not too worried :) |
| 11:53.54 | johnx | hey, is Nokia at CES? |
| 11:54.14 | Stskeeps | peter@marketing said maemo wasn't, at least |
| 11:54.23 | johnx | bah |
| 11:54.36 | johnx | there's some android-based tablet concept it seems making the rounds |
| 11:55.01 | johnx | but with a 480x320 screen. thoroughly "meh" in terms of a target for Maemo |
| 11:55.01 | RichiH | lardman: end of jan is the earliest, end of feb the latest starting date |
| 11:55.14 | *** join/#maemo chenca (n=chenca@200.184.118.130) |
| 11:55.32 | johnx | "latest"? after that they'll just cancel the project or something? |
| 11:55.39 | RichiH | nah |
| 11:55.49 | RichiH | but from what i gather of internal predictions |
| 11:55.56 | RichiH | what roadmap post, btw? |
| 11:56.12 | johnx | was mentioned on: http://openpandora.wordpress.com/ |
| 11:56.14 | RST38h | johnx: Anything Atom-based is going to be crappy performance wise |
| 11:56.45 | johnx | RST38h, yeah, but $330 isn't a bad price for crappy performance :) |
| 11:56.46 | RST38h | Same goes for the MIPS based devices. Just had a chance to compare similarly specced ARM and MIPS boards and MIPS sucks moose balls |
| 11:57.07 | RST38h | johnx: "I am not rich enough to buy crappy goods" (C)unknown |
| 11:57.09 | johnx | now, get me a PPC based netbook and I'd be interested... |
| 11:57.40 | RST38h | johnx: Would you like refridgeration with that? ;) |
| 11:57.54 | Jaffa | lcuk: if you're in London post-26th January (back to work after paternity), give me a shout |
| 11:58.03 | johnx | I think freescale does a low-power 603e |
| 11:58.28 | RichiH | the new sony gadget is nice |
| 11:58.35 | RichiH | but kinda expensive |
| 11:58.39 | Jaffa | The Vaio-P? |
| 11:58.43 | johnx | yeah, you pay a lot for the form factor |
| 11:59.05 | Jaffa | I was thinking "$900" isn't much, but then remembered that GBP's crashed recently, and so $900 != 450GBP |
| 11:59.27 | johnx | wonder what they want in JPY... |
| 12:00.06 | johnx | but, I had a chance to do another hands-on with that HP mini-note 2133 and mini 1000...those are just about perfect in every respect for me |
| 12:00.11 | lardman | http://www.mobilecomputermag.co.uk/200901081193/sony-vaio-p-series-will-cost-969-in-uk.html |
| 12:00.13 | lardman | yow! |
| 12:00.21 | Jaffa | Ouch |
| 12:00.34 | johnx | oh wow...you guys got burned |
| 12:01.15 | Stskeeps | Jaffa: did your baby get delivered yet btw? |
| 12:01.24 | lardman | hmm, dimensions always in inches, /me looks for an Imperial ruler |
| 12:01.47 | johnx | 30cm -> 12in |
| 12:02.03 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (n=magao@157.88.94.233) |
| 12:02.05 | dneary | Actually 12in = 30.5cm |
| 12:02.11 | Jaffa | Stskeeps: yeah, Kathryn <something> Flegg was born 12:32pm yesterday, weighing 7lbs 11oz, 53cm long and looks like: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=72898&l=ad8cc&id=618601477 |
| 12:02.12 | dneary | roughly |
| 12:02.29 | dneary | grats Jaffa! |
| 12:02.42 | Jaffa | ta |
| 12:02.47 | dneary | How many kilos in 7lb11oz? |
| 12:02.57 | Jaffa | Interesting: http://www.mobilecomputermag.co.uk/200901081192/download-windows-7-for-free-from-tomorrow.html |
| 12:02.58 | dneary | 3.5 about? |
| 12:02.58 | X-Fade | Use google.. |
| 12:03.08 | Jaffa | dneary: no idea, babies are always measured imperially in the UK |
| 12:03.13 | lardman | johnx: I know, but then I have to use arithmetic to work out how large it is, rather than just looking at my ruler |
| 12:03.24 | Jaffa | 3.487kg |
| 12:03.28 | dneary | Jaffa: What's 53cm in metric, then? |
| 12:03.44 | johnx | lardman, sizeeasy.com or ... learn both systems :P |
| 12:03.49 | Jaffa | Babies' weights, sorry |
| 12:03.56 | dneary | Jaffa: My guesstimate was pretty close, then :) |
| 12:04.03 | Jaffa | aye |
| 12:04.39 | Stskeeps | Jaffa: woo, congratulations :) |
| 12:04.42 | dneary | The guess was from the 500g pots of jam, which were 1lb pots with "10% extra free!" when I was a kid |
| 12:05.03 | dneary | So 7lb +10% = 3500g |
| 12:05.26 | lardman | Jaffa: yes, congrats |
| 12:05.37 | dneary | And 10% of 7lb is roughly 0.7*15 |
| 12:06.04 | dneary | Or 10.5oz |
| 12:06.15 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@44.84-49-128.nextgentel.com) |
| 12:06.28 | dneary | (anywayn, that's that for the anecdote of how I do imperial weight to kgs) |
| 12:06.57 | dneary | I've found imperial volume to metric much harder - esp. for fl. oz. and US gallons |
| 12:07.09 | dneary | Because we never used those in Ireland |
| 12:07.27 | dneary | I know 8 pints is a gallon in Ireland, which makes about 4.5l |
| 12:07.51 | dneary | And I know the difference between a half litre and a pint (68ml) |
| 12:08.36 | dneary | But I think US gallons are smaller, or something |
| 12:08.36 | *** join/#maemo johnnyjohnjohn (n=magicboo@adsl-75-45-120-94.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 12:08.36 | dneary | Or bigger |
| 12:08.45 | lardman | they;re smaller |
| 12:09.12 | lardman | |
| 12:09.12 | lardman | 1 US gallon = 3.78541178 litres |
| 12:09.18 | lardman | according to Google |
| 12:10.03 | dneary | Ah - there's the difference |
| 12:10.31 | lardman | so US mpg figures aren't quite as dire as they seem |
| 12:11.24 | dneary | A US fl.oz. is bigger than a British fl.oz., but there are 16 US fl.oz. in a US pint (473ml) and 20 British fl.oz. in a British mint (568ml) |
| 12:11.58 | dneary | lardman: It still makes me want to slap US people around the place when they complain about gas at $3 a gallon |
| 12:12.09 | lardman | yeah, absolutely :) |
| 12:12.52 | dneary | When in France we were paying â¬1.35 a litre, or $1.83, or $6.40 a gallon |
| 12:13.34 | lardman | we're down in the 90s now (p/l) |
| 12:13.37 | johnx | dneary, but you have a public transportation system that works |
| 12:13.39 | *** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@vpn2832.extern.uni-tuebingen.de) |
| 12:13.47 | Jaffa | Barely |
| 12:13.51 | lcuk | jaffa - congratulations on giving birth to a new tangerine :D and when i know for certain when im coming ill give you and others a shout |
| 12:13.52 | dneary | When they went up to $4 a gallon, we were at â¬1.50 a litre |
| 12:13.59 | lardman | certainly can't say it works in the UK |
| 12:14.23 | dneary | $7 a gallon |
| 12:14.54 | dneary | The difference is, a 33% increase in US gas prices equals an 18% increase in French petrol prices |
| 12:15.05 | dneary | Because it's over 50% tax in France |
| 12:15.25 | dneary | And we're down to under a euro for diesel here, about â¬1.05 for petrol |
| 12:16.16 | RST38h | that is all for the good of the environment! rejoice! |
| 12:18.03 | *** join/#maemo Ryback_ (n=ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 12:19.47 | *** join/#maemo oilinki (n=oil@ip-208-109-22-97.ip.secureserver.net) |
| 12:20.20 | johnx | RST38h, did you catch the pics and videos of those cortex-a8 netbooks in action? http://www.notebooks.com/2009/01/07/new-generation-of-netbooks-199-and-299-eight-hour-battery-sexy-design/ |
| 12:20.36 | RST38h | checking |
| 12:21.02 | *** join/#maemo etrunko (n=edulima@200.184.118.130) |
| 12:21.29 | RST38h | johnx: Cool! Are these going on sale at BestBuy? |
| 12:21.43 | johnx | not yet it seems :/ |
| 12:21.54 | RST38h | Do they run MS Word? |
| 12:22.01 | johnx | har har |
| 12:22.06 | RST38h | Thought so. |
| 12:22.16 | RST38h | If it looks like a laptop, it is supposed to run MS Word. |
| 12:22.56 | johnx | not reason it wouldn't run open office of course. it'd be fine for kids |
| 12:23.09 | johnx | and actually I'd expect them to show up at k-mart or target or walmart instead of best-buy |
| 12:23.19 | lcuk | kids hate it (esp in uk) they are taught with office |
| 12:23.29 | *** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@mar44-1-87-90-32-28.dsl.club-internet.fr) |
| 12:24.07 | johnx | hey, kid, would you like a laptop to check facebook and lolcats (but open office instead of word) or are would you like to not have a laptop? |
| 12:24.07 | RST38h | johnx: What is open office? I dunno how to use it and my teacher can't open my homework afterwarss |
| 12:24.20 | RST38h | johnx: He wouldn't |
| 12:24.25 | johnx | that's BS |
| 12:24.43 | RST38h | johnx: It is not. I may not necessarily agree with this, but this is how things are. |
| 12:24.48 | lcuk | johnx, luke uses nokia for facebook etc, but for homework office is whats expected |
| 12:24.56 | johnx | RST38h, adults are one thing, kids are another |
| 12:25.03 | lcuk | i got shouted at when i offered open office (ok, i told him it was linux as well) |
| 12:25.03 | RST38h | johnx: same crap |
| 12:25.24 | RST38h | johnx: and you can't imagine how mean those "educators" are nowadays |
| 12:25.28 | Stskeeps | admittedly i don't like OO either, but that's cos when I used it and recommended it to people, it was -very- unstable :P |
| 12:25.45 | johnx | RST38h, in a choice between having a computer and not having a computer, a kid is not going to turn down a computer |
| 12:25.58 | lcuk | yes, they are |
| 12:26.24 | lcuk | its like offering a kid a ps-one when really they wanted an x-box |
| 12:26.37 | Stskeeps | i find it curious how many people accepted Works instead of office back then |
| 12:26.41 | lcuk | MUCH more opinionated |
| 12:26.48 | lcuk | it was microsoft |
| 12:26.49 | Stskeeps | and how everyone says they need Word |
| 12:26.52 | Stskeeps | (now) |
| 12:27.11 | lcuk | remembers a time before office |
| 12:27.22 | johnx | Stskeeps, probably because MS poisoned the well by making Works and Word not place nice. now they know they can't trust anything but Word |
| 12:28.02 | johnx | lcuk, I still hold that it's different with computers than it is with game systems. A PS1 doesn't have Halo, but this has facebook and AIM |
| 12:29.34 | johnx | and for kids they probably care about how it looks more than what it's running, provided you get them at a young enough age |
| 12:29.55 | lcuk | johnx, homework is a big factor, i was moaned at because i didnt have the same version of office.. |
| 12:30.00 | Stskeeps | i was actually biased towards clarisworks, scaringily |
| 12:30.01 | Stskeeps | on mac |
| 12:30.03 | Stskeeps | from school |
| 12:30.14 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 12:30.24 | johnx | lcuk, yeah, that has always been a big thing :/ *sigh* |
| 12:30.26 | lcuk | office2000 was not what he was used to |
| 12:31.34 | johnx | MS still manages to strong-arm more great formats on the masses |
| 12:32.05 | Stskeeps | johnx: heh, we actually have state accepting ODF and all that crap now.. |
| 12:32.13 | Stskeeps | but next to noone sends it. Everyone sends PDF instead. |
| 12:32.33 | Jaffa | Jaffa Jr#1 only cares if his laptop runs Firefox so it can get to BBC Redux & Cbeebies website |
| 12:32.34 | johnx | I accept PDF...grudgingly |
| 12:32.35 | lcuk | :D i like it when people use .doc format to send screenshots :D |
| 12:32.40 | *** join/#maemo Andrewfblack (n=andrewfb@68.59.79.2) |
| 12:33.06 | johnx | but what I'm really not amused by is exFAT for SDXC :| |
| 12:33.06 | Stskeeps | was kinda sold to his gf when she ran opera instead of IE and had other sane software choices. |
| 12:33.20 | lcuk | still uses pdf thingy v5 |
| 12:33.31 | lcuk | it asks me to upgrade often |
| 12:33.34 | johnx | my wife got a new laptop running vista and she's already complaining about missing ubuntu :) |
| 12:33.53 | lcuk | yeah, its a shame you cant let her copy yours |
| 12:34.17 | johnx | lcuk, you might want to. apparently there are several security holes in old version of Adobe PDF reader |
| 12:34.18 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 12:34.24 | lcuk | them linux guys really need to lower their prices |
| 12:34.32 | RST38h | johnx: the problem of not having a computer rarely arises in western world |
| 12:34.36 | Andrewfblack | Morning |
| 12:34.39 | lcuk | its ok johnx, i dont read anything malicious |
| 12:34.51 | Stskeeps | morning Andrewfblack |
| 12:36.19 | johnx | RST38h, not having a computer in the household and kids not having "their own" computer are a little different |
| 12:36.54 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-53-225.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net) |
| 12:37.17 | *** join/#maemo briglia (n=X@189.2.128.130) |
| 12:37.26 | *** join/#maemo bobl1k (n=any@ppp85-140-136-146.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) |
| 12:38.18 | johnx | anyways, thought you'd get a kick out of the ARM netbooks. I wasn't really commenting on their retail viability in western markets...more from a technical POV |
| 12:38.54 | Stskeeps | put some green colors on it and claim it isn't as power hungry, and that'd sell a lot.. |
| 12:39.06 | lardman | green colour screen? |
| 12:39.17 | RST38h | johnx: you can get a used computer for your kids for peanuts |
| 12:39.33 | RST38h | johnx: way less than $400 for a netbook that does not run Office |
| 12:39.37 | *** join/#maemo setanta (n=setanta@200.184.118.130) |
| 12:39.44 | Andrewfblack | some kids would rather have the peanuts |
| 12:39.46 | johnx | RST38h, $200... |
| 12:39.55 | RST38h | johnx: yes, about that much, with a monitor |
| 12:40.30 | Stskeeps | http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1108673/Handbag-laptops-100-sold-Next-February.html |
| 12:40.32 | RST38h | johnx: The reason why you wouldn't is to keep your kids from getting addicted to WoW or Facebook or whatever |
| 12:40.33 | johnx | eh. like I said...not commenting on commercial viability. I was thinking of one for myself |
| 12:40.42 | RST38h | Ah |
| 12:41.08 | RST38h | Consider getting a real light subnotebook then :) |
| 12:41.20 | johnx | I thought you might be interested in seeing that they have working prototypes since you seem to be some what interested in non-x86 hardware :P |
| 12:41.38 | Stskeeps | i think if i have a kid and he reaches 6 years of age, or whatever, i'd give him a computer he'd have to hack on to get things working |
| 12:41.41 | Stskeeps | did wonders for me |
| 12:41.44 | Stskeeps | .. provided he shows same tendancies |
| 12:42.01 | RST38h | johnx: I had no doubts they would have working prototypes |
| 12:42.07 | lardman | those handbag laptops look more like the size |
| 12:42.13 | johnx | and yes, my potential offspring will likely end up with linux computers unless they 1) really need it for school or 2) feel the need to buy themselves a windows license |
| 12:42.18 | RST38h | Sts: A kid nowadays wouldn't hack |
| 12:42.29 | RST38h | Sts: Kids have changed somewhat |
| 12:43.00 | RST38h | johnx: What I have doubts about if whether anyone needs these prototypes |
| 12:43.01 | johnx | RST38h, I don't buy it. there's hackers in every generation...or did you forget some of the people on here? |
| 12:43.25 | Stskeeps | what johnx said.. even my nephew has been hacking about since he was 13 |
| 12:43.34 | RST38h | johnx: Yes, what I mean is there are much fewer people interested in tinkering with each generation |
| 12:43.46 | RST38h | johnx: It kinda went out of fashion |
| 12:44.10 | johnx | ha. it was never in fashion unless I missed something |
| 12:44.43 | RST38h | johnx: Well, you had sizable number of kids tinkering, it was the age of science, space exploration etc |
| 12:45.02 | RST38h | johnx: We live in the age of Britney Spears now. |
| 12:45.04 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-53-225.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net) |
| 12:45.13 | GeneralAntilles | lol: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798#c24 |
| 12:45.13 | johnx | my general reaction to "kids are different nowadays" is to call BS |
| 12:45.24 | GeneralAntilles | ^ |
| 12:45.33 | RST38h | johnx: Well, I taught kids back in 1998-1999 |
| 12:45.42 | GeneralAntilles | johnx, what's actually meant by that is "I'm different nowadays" ;) |
| 12:45.57 | RST38h | johnx: And I can tell you for sure (same as a lot of instructors) that they are different |
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| 12:46.28 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: dear god @ bug |
| 12:46.48 | johnx | RST38h, did you teach kids 40 years ago? If not, it's comparing apples and oranges |
| 12:47.18 | johnx | comparing how you remember your own childhood to how you perceive other children's lives now |
| 12:47.44 | RST38h | johnx: I know people who taught kids 10-30 years ago |
| 12:47.44 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: akamai can really fuck up in surprising ways at times though |
| 12:48.02 | GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, yeah, unfun, but the ultimatums are always exciting. |
| 12:48.06 | RST38h | johnx: I remember myself and other students |
| 12:48.32 | johnx | RST38h, apples, meet oranges. |
| 12:48.44 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Heh, yeah. Had to laugh when that ended up in my mailbox. |
| 12:48.45 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: the fucky part is this comment is not even by someone participating in the bug report |
| 12:48.47 | GeneralAntilles | Whatever you remember, your snapshot of both experiences is so small as to be meaningless when generalized to "kids these days" |
| 12:49.13 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: We've asked akamai to check it out btw. |
| 12:49.13 | alterego | LUNCHTIME! |
| 12:49.17 | johnx | anyways I have a bash script to coral, since the other kids aren't hacking on it for me |
| 12:49.18 | GeneralAntilles | Anecdotes aren't particularly useful most of the time. |
| 12:49.23 | RST38h | General: In fact, my experience applies specifically to kids stufying computers |
| 12:49.24 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: He filed a duplicate bug.. |
| 12:49.27 | Stskeeps | ah |
| 12:49.48 | RST38h | General: And it is not anecdotal, as we are talkibg about several dozens of students |
| 12:50.17 | RST38h | General: + opinions from people who taught more students over longer periods of time than myself |
| 12:50.32 | GeneralAntilles | Whose own experiences are also limited. |
| 12:50.49 | GeneralAntilles | Anyway, you clearly believe what you believe, and it's not my goal to convince you otherwise. |
| 12:51.01 | johnx | ^ |
| 12:51.31 | Stskeeps | X-Fade: who should i contact btw if i have some questions on how the git on garage will be implemented (for planning purposes)? |
| 12:51.45 | *** join/#maemo rzr (n=RzR@lav35-1-82-236-136-171.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:52.04 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: ferenc |
| 12:52.09 | Stskeeps | alright |
| 12:52.18 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: ferenc @ maemo |
| 12:52.41 | GeneralAntilles | should probably update the wiki. |
| 12:52.41 | Stskeeps | (mostly because my talk item from 9th dec went mostly ignored :P) |
| 12:52.41 | X-Fade | He's implementing it now.. |
| 12:54.01 | RST38h | Symbian Foundation is hiring =) |
| 12:54.15 | Stskeeps | it's mostly a simple question of if a project can have only one git repository, or multiple :) |
| 12:55.13 | *** join/#maemo trickie (n=trickie@92.66.94.81) |
| 12:56.18 | GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, your projects don't get any. :P |
| 12:56.25 | Stskeeps | :( |
| 12:56.34 | alterego | I like the ideas about the revised development portal. |
| 12:56.36 | GeneralAntilles | Everybody else can have as many as they want, though. |
| 12:56.43 | X-Fade | Stskeeps: Your project can already request a repo, that is enabled in garage now.. |
| 12:56.54 | alterego | I'm constantly faffing around trying to find platform API's. |
| 12:56.57 | X-Fade | But for funky configurations you need to ask ferenc. |
| 12:57.02 | alterego | I end up just using google .. |
| 12:57.04 | Stskeeps | *nod* |
| 12:57.38 | GeneralAntilles | alterego, yeah, Nokia's documentation on maemo.org is a mess. :/ |
| 12:58.01 | GeneralAntilles | Maybe Maemo@Forum Nokia will help with that. |
| 12:58.06 | RST38h | And not going to become better any time soon |
| 12:58.20 | alterego | Hopefully, though the most recent maemo publication is filed under S60 O_O |
| 12:58.50 | alterego | maemo planet _really_ needs fixing. It's be borked since it's existed. |
| 12:59.04 | Jaffa | alterego: even using Google, I can't find the most up-to-date stuff. |
| 12:59.12 | GeneralAntilles | Well, it'll be going live when maemo.nokia.com goes live. |
| 12:59.16 | Jaffa | And the 4.1 stuff's all PDFs! Lovely to print out, a bastard to search |
| 12:59.20 | alterego | Jaffa: yes, that's when I manually edit the uri ;) |
| 12:59.31 | alterego | Heh |
| 12:59.53 | alterego | Will maemo.nokia.com be replacing maemo.org? |
| 12:59.54 | X-Fade | Jaffa: The new documentation import is almost ready. After that you also have the html available. |
| 12:59.58 | GeneralAntilles | alterego, no. |
| 13:00.11 | alterego | Interesting, so what's the reasoning behind two sites? |
| 13:00.14 | GeneralAntilles | maemo.org is the community website |
| 13:00.25 | GeneralAntilles | Maemo@Forum Nokia is for commercial Maemo devs |
| 13:00.32 | alterego | Okay |
| 13:00.34 | alterego | Interesting. |
| 13:00.36 | GeneralAntilles | maemo.nokia.com is for normal users and perspective users |
| 13:00.52 | *** join/#maemo jeez__ (n=jeez@200.184.118.130) |
| 13:00.54 | GeneralAntilles | Mostly what it accomplishes is freeing maemo.org from any obligations to Nokia. |
| 13:01.02 | alterego | Cool, |
| 13:01.06 | *** join/#maemo ceyusa (n=ceyusa@189.163.35.95) |
| 13:01.08 | alterego | (I think) :) |
| 13:01.12 | lardman | GeneralAntilles: have we finished the review, I've not got any emails? |
| 13:01.18 | Jaffa | alterego: very cool |
| 13:01.23 | GeneralAntilles | lardman, none have been sent yet. |
| 13:01.28 | Jaffa | *cough* |
| 13:01.29 | lardman | GeneralAntilles: I thought I was running late (just remembered last night) |
| 13:01.42 | Jaffa | lardman: You are. But so is everyone else :) |
| 13:01.47 | lardman | heads off to get some lunch & look through the bits & bobs |
| 13:01.49 | Jaffa | Anyone seen etrunko recently? |
| 13:01.52 | Jaffa | ~seen etrunko |
| 13:01.54 | infobot | etrunko is currently on #maemo (40m 52s), last said: 'hi GAN800 GAN800 GeneralAntilles'. |
| 13:02.05 | Jaffa | So, he's not dead :_) |
| 13:02.34 | GeneralAntilles | Wonder if he's back from vacation yet |
| 13:03.23 | alterego | Iguess czr has dropped out of the maemo community. |
| 13:03.31 | *** join/#maemo flavioribeiro (n=avaty@189.71.5.77) |
| 13:03.38 | GeneralAntilles | alterego, he dropped by a few months ago, I think. |
| 13:03.48 | GeneralAntilles | But, yeah, he kinda disappeared like you. ::P |
| 13:04.17 | alterego | Cool. It'd be nice to chat with him. Don't know what he's doing now his contract ended with Nokia |
| 13:05.06 | alterego | s/now/since/ |
| 13:05.46 | GeneralAntilles | goes back to bed now. |
| 13:05.52 | alterego | That is a rather annoying feature of infobot. I can't believe it's survived |
| 13:06.19 | GeneralAntilles | Well, we did kill _Monkey |
| 13:06.24 | alterego | :) |
| 13:06.25 | johnx | s/^/not annoying. it's useful sometimes... |
| 13:07.09 | johnx | just remember to leave off the last / if you don't want infobot to pick it up |
| 13:07.35 | alterego | Okay |
| 13:15.37 | Stskeeps | oh god |
| 13:15.39 | Stskeeps | tetrinet for maemo |
| 13:15.48 | Stskeeps | should .. not.. get.. addicted.. again |
| 13:15.55 | johnx | ahaha...dangerous |
| 13:16.15 | Stskeeps | i spent so many years in my teens on that game |
| 13:16.26 | *** join/#maemo briglia (n=X@192.100.104.170) |
| 13:16.38 | johnx | ut2k4 was my time-sink, but I've been clean for a couple years |
| 13:18.10 | Stskeeps | wtf @ git abilities |
| 13:18.18 | Stskeeps | svn can checkout a subdirectory in a repository |
| 13:18.20 | Stskeeps | git can't |
| 13:18.43 | johnx | really? bzr can get just a subdir, right? |
| 13:18.51 | johnx | what's the big reason to go git vs bzr? |
| 13:19.08 | Stskeeps | getting closer to maemo.org |
| 13:19.23 | Stskeeps | bzr has easy "create new repository" :P |
| 13:19.26 | RST38h | doesn't maemo.org use SVN? |
| 13:19.38 | Stskeeps | yeah, it does, but it will have git too soon |
| 13:20.02 | Stskeeps | distributed vcs or wtf it's called is good for contribution though |
| 13:20.53 | Jaffa | I dunno what's driving the git move on maemo.org; Maemo Software seem to have started using it, but I suspect it's tool-envy/grass-is-greener/cool-buzzword stuff rather than any real pressing technical problem with svn |
| 13:21.09 | Jaffa | It's not exactly like Maemo is a hub of decentralized development projects ;-) |
| 13:21.20 | Stskeeps | Jaffa: i can see good things for it really |
| 13:21.46 | Stskeeps | you're not forced to a certain vcs-determined workflow |
| 13:22.48 | Jaffa | But git's so geared for Linus' Linux development, patch-oriented workflow (or was, last time I looked) |
| 13:23.20 | Stskeeps | yeah, but if you get away from the abstraction of svn, it's patch-oriented too :P |
| 13:23.27 | Jaffa | Now svn's got merge tracking, the only thing a DVCS would give *me* on my variety of projects is local commits. |
| 13:23.37 | Jaffa | Stskeeps: true |
| 13:24.51 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (n=andre@g224237237.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 13:25.06 | zeenix | Jaffa: git does (seem to) have merge tracking |
| 13:25.12 | zeenix | Jaffa: check `gitk` |
| 13:25.50 | Jaffa | zeenix: oh, I'm sure it does - but lack of merge tracking was a big problem with svn for long running branches which are due for merge to the trunk at a later date. |
| 13:26.17 | zeenix | Jaffa: there are lots of problems with svn, lets not go there :) |
| 13:26.42 | Jaffa | There are lots of problems with everything |
| 13:26.58 | zeenix | i think people who still ask `what's wrong with svn` have been living under a rock |
| 13:27.55 | jamey | local commits are really useful. I like git more and more, even when the repository I'm working against is svn. |
| 13:28.17 | w00t | git is much, much nicer, and I say that as someone who used SVN for 5 years before moving to git under a year ago |
| 13:28.49 | jamey | git-rebase --interactive is also very powerful -- so you can rearrange and combine those local commits before pushing them upstream. |
| 13:28.50 | Jaffa | fiar enough |
| 13:28.51 | zeenix | yeah, unfortunately the boring dudes who only work in their offices don't understand the value of local commits |
| 13:29.24 | jamey | is a boring dude who does most of his work in his office but still likes local commits. :) |
| 13:29.29 | *** join/#maemo pupnik_ (n=pupnik@pD95FEBF2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:29.30 | Jaffa | And developers go off on some techno-wankery to push out new tools and changes to a stable system when there's been no community push for it. |
| 13:29.31 | w00t | being able to create multiple copies of the repository for different patchsets is also useful |
| 13:29.44 | w00t | (if branches aren't suitable) |
| 13:30.17 | Jaffa | w00t: yeah, that's very useful |
| 13:30.56 | jamey | has anyone here tried QGraphicsScene on the N810? |
| 13:31.16 | Jaffa | zeenix: perhaps you should be careful about using phrases like "boring dudes" and "don't understand"; since I'm like jamey. |
| 13:31.17 | zeenix | also, git (or any DCVS i know of) doesn't stop you from having more or less the same workflow you had with svn if you still insist on sticking with old technology |
| 13:31.48 | zeenix | Jaffa: i didn't mean you or anyone in particular |
| 13:31.56 | w00t | zeenix: yeah, you can use any workflow you like instead of being *forced* into one particular box |
| 13:32.07 | zeenix | Jaffa: you are not a boring dude if you are on this channel :) |
| 13:35.14 | *** join/#maemo wms (n=wms___@198.146.5.4) |
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| 13:41.20 | johnx | zeenix, hey, don't generalize! Just because I'm on this channel doesn't mean I'm not boring |
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| 13:56.09 | Stskeeps | johnx: git update: one-repo per project (for now) but seems extensible to have /projects/projectname/reponame ass well |
| 13:56.11 | *** join/#maemo Havi (n=navi@unaffiliated/navi) |
| 13:56.13 | Stskeeps | -s |
| 13:56.32 | Stskeeps | and suggesting we contribute ideas to ggit project |
| 13:56.53 | johnx | ok, /projects/mer/h-a-m ass it is! |
| 13:56.56 | Stskeeps | hehe |
| 13:58.06 | johnx | what is ggit? garage git? |
| 13:58.22 | zeenix | johnx: it wasn't a generalization, just my observation |
| 13:58.32 | Stskeeps | johnx: yeah, think so |
| 13:58.39 | X-Fade | johnx: The actual git plugin for gforge.. |
| 13:58.47 | X-Fade | johnx: Which Ferenc is developing. |
| 13:59.02 | johnx | what kind of ideas are being solicited? |
| 13:59.17 | Stskeeps | johnx: multiple repos for projects and per-user repositories |
| 14:07.40 | r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: I like both of those ... |
| 14:07.53 | r2d2rogers | anyone play on github? |
| 14:11.13 | zeenix | r2d2rogers: i use github if thats what you mean |
| 14:11.38 | zeenix | r2d2rogers: usually to keep an up2date mirrors of my local branch for backup purposes |
| 14:11.47 | zeenix | s/branch/repo |
| 14:12.13 | Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: trying to get the mer stuff on maemo.org as it shows off a bit more ownership by the community :P |
| 14:12.44 | r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: right, I was just thinking as far as a source of ideas for feature suggestions |
| 14:13.32 | Stskeeps | *nod* |
| 14:13.34 | r2d2rogers | zeenix: nice, I'm still trying to get up to speed on a project to contribute to there, as I don't have many contacts that share my interest in git yet |
| 14:14.17 | etrunko | Jaffa, GeneralAntilles: hey |
| 14:15.52 | X-Fade | It's alive! :) |
| 14:16.06 | etrunko | hi X-Fade |
| 14:16.12 | etrunko | happy new year everybody |
| 14:17.26 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-fee7dc00-167.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:18.46 | Stskeeps | afternoon Meizirkki |
| 14:20.01 | Meizirkki | good afternoon Sts |
| 14:20.28 | Meizirkki | Maemopad :) |
| 14:20.33 | *** join/#maemo mgedmin (n=mg@office.pov.lt) |
| 14:20.40 | Stskeeps | Meizirkki: can you do me a favour and test if 'wifi-radar' package works on mer? |
| 14:20.47 | Meizirkki | okay |
| 14:20.55 | Meizirkki | the one from extras? |
| 14:21.19 | Stskeeps | its in ubuntu repository |
| 14:21.26 | Meizirkki | ok |
| 14:22.23 | Meizirkki | ~curse 5GB/month data limit |
| 14:22.24 | infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, 5GB/month data limit ! |
| 14:23.00 | t_s_o | now thats a brain twister... |
| 14:23.29 | Stskeeps | Meizirkki: (it's a wifi applet thing and im pondering if it works "ok") |
| 14:23.42 | johnx | t_s_o, a 5GB data cap can't be any worse at sys admin'ing than your average MCSE |
| 14:23.53 | *** join/#maemo greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 14:24.20 | Meizirkki | Stskeeps: yep, i first read wireless-info, that's why i asked about extras :P |
| 14:24.59 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@200.184.118.130) |
| 14:25.22 | *** join/#maemo profoX` (n=wesley@83.101.3.8) |
| 14:25.28 | Meizirkki | does wifi-radar include panel-applet? |
| 14:25.34 | *** join/#maemo TrueJournals1 (n=User@c-67-173-67-77.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 14:25.40 | t_s_o | heh, i must admit, i ones took a course aimed at MSCE, but more or less bailed on it when the topic was more about setting up sales packages then actual admin work on windows servers... |
| 14:29.12 | johnx | t_s_o, yeah, I took some part of it too, IIRC. Just kinda sat there and fiddled around on my zaurus, and helped my "lab partner" learn the stuff. The younger generation is more diligent than us though: http://www.switched.com/2008/12/24/9-year-old-girl-becomes-microsofts-youngest-employee/ |
| 14:30.15 | *** join/#maemo TrueJournals1 (n=User@c-67-173-67-77.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 14:30.17 | Stskeeps | isnt there a child labor law? :P |
| 14:30.34 | johnx | I think she just got an MCSE, not actually a job |
| 14:30.51 | johnx | MCSE certification that is |
| 14:30.58 | t_s_o | i think the UN has something to say about child labor, yes, but they also have something to say about kids and educations... |
| 14:31.44 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@200.184.118.130) |
| 14:32.02 | Veggen | tso: it's evil to put kids through brainwashing^H^H^HMCSE anyhow :) |
| 14:32.25 | *** join/#maemo z72ka (n=hermanj@rb5dg3.net.upc.cz) |
| 14:33.53 | t_s_o | heh, and other private or public educations are not brainwashing? |
| 14:34.33 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A15E5E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:35.38 | t_s_o | ugh, sorry, i keep dipping into some kind of cynicism mixed with fatalism... |
| 14:36.02 | johnx | I prefer to just dip into the ice cream :) |
| 14:36.11 | johnx | probably hot cocoa tonight instead though |
| 14:36.16 | johnx | ~lart lack of central heating |
| 14:36.16 | infobot | DoSes lack of central heating |
| 14:36.21 | Stskeeps | mmm. ice cream |
| 14:36.46 | *** part/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A15E5E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:36.48 | t_s_o | hmm, DoS on the lack of something... |
| 14:36.49 | lardman | ~lart mathematics |
| 14:36.49 | infobot | dumps 42 tons of dirt, manure, and fish heads on mathematics |
| 14:37.11 | johnx | lardman++ infobot++ |
| 14:37.32 | Meizirkki | Stskeeps: first try: wifi-radar did not start using menu-item, i'll install terminal emulator to see if it gives some output |
| 14:38.00 | Meizirkki | osso-xterm yet? |
| 14:38.09 | t_s_o | heh, kinda cool watching a thinkpad go into lockdown (probably with a encrypted drive) after its built in wwan system gets a text message from the owner |
| 14:38.13 | Stskeeps | Meizirkki: you might need to restart |
| 14:38.17 | Stskeeps | i think |
| 14:38.28 | t_s_o | altho i suspect "experience" must be the number one buzzword these days... |
| 14:38.46 | Meizirkki | Stskeeps: i installed wifi-radar using chroot from maemo, so i did reboot |
| 14:38.51 | Stskeeps | k |
| 14:38.51 | lardman | ~lart rotational symmetry and central points |
| 14:38.51 | infobot | puts rotational symmetry and central points into a headlock and administers a mighty noogie, rubbing half of rotational symmetry and central points's hair of |
| 14:39.06 | lardman | much better |
| 14:39.20 | Stskeeps | writing an article as part of an exam is shite. :P |
| 14:40.08 | johnx | mmm...programming exams. I do miss those |
| 14:40.21 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@200.184.118.130) |
| 14:40.57 | lardman | hmm, I had to help someone with dyslexia read one of those, or at least be available |
| 14:41.19 | dneary | Jaffa: Ping? |
| 14:41.40 | RichiH | another non-maemo question: any idea when the e72 will come out? |
| 14:41.58 | dneary | RichiH: A non-maemo answer: No idea |
| 14:42.41 | *** join/#maemo ToyKeeper (n=nToyKeep@74.95.113.201) |
| 14:44.42 | Meizirkki | Stskeeps: Wifi-radar needs to be run as root, but i forgot to add myseft to sudoers, i can see it working when i get sudo access :P |
| 14:44.56 | Stskeeps | ok, let's see how it goes |
| 14:45.24 | Stskeeps | maybe being part of 'network' group or which one it was.. |
| 14:48.46 | Meizirkki | Stskeeps: not working :( |
| 14:48.54 | Meizirkki | i'll pastebin the output |
| 14:49.04 | Stskeeps | k |
| 14:52.07 | Meizirkki | http://pastebin.com/mae2dc67 |
| 14:52.10 | *** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 14:52.52 | Stskeeps | lovely |
| 14:53.16 | Meizirkki | could adding to network group help? |
| 14:53.31 | Stskeeps | 'wicd' is up next :P |
| 14:53.37 | johnx | yes, groups that might help: plugdev, netdev |
| 14:53.58 | *** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@79-66-117-253.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 14:54.04 | Stskeeps | yeah, try add to those two |
| 14:54.17 | johnx | looks at error |
| 14:54.26 | johnx | ...though in this case not sure if it will help |
| 14:54.32 | Stskeeps | yeah, but you never know |
| 14:54.38 | Stskeeps | bman claimed he used it |
| 14:54.44 | johnx | yeah, that's what hildon-desktop taught me |
| 14:55.01 | johnx | sure it might say "illegal instruction" but it probably just means I'm missing some icons |
| 14:55.04 | Meizirkki | i'll add groups and try both wifi-radar and wicd |
| 14:55.22 | johnx | be sure to log out and in again after adding yourself to the groups |
| 14:55.25 | Stskeeps | remember to remove wifi radar first ;) |
| 14:55.36 | Meizirkki | Stskeeps: why? |
| 14:55.52 | Stskeeps | well when trying wicd, make sure wifi radar is gone :P |
| 14:56.04 | Meizirkki | ok |
| 14:56.49 | *** join/#maemo Pyrhos (n=PyrO@ANantes-158-1-126-226.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 14:59.36 | Meizirkki | i think i tried wicd once before (when i had deblet packages for wlan). it was giving same kind of output.. |
| 14:59.49 | Stskeeps | mm |
| 15:00.34 | *** join/#maemo mk8 (n=torello@ip-212-138.sn1.eutelia.it) |
| 15:01.25 | Meizirkki | wifi-radar now complains something about gtk... |
| 15:02.14 | Stskeeps | ah. |
| 15:02.15 | Stskeeps | pygtk.. |
| 15:02.35 | johnx | seeing pygtk problems in other ubuntu programs too |
| 15:02.40 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 15:02.48 | Stskeeps | it isnt built for gtk 2.12 |
| 15:02.55 | johnx | aaaah |
| 15:03.00 | Stskeeps | which was the issue i was having yesterday |
| 15:03.01 | johnx | that would make a lot of sense |
| 15:03.40 | *** join/#maemo Pyrhos (n=PyrO@ANantes-158-1-126-226.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:04.24 | Stskeeps | it really wonders me why nm-applet doesnt work |
| 15:04.29 | Stskeeps | oh, maybe.. |
| 15:04.34 | Stskeeps | Meizirkki: you bored? |
| 15:04.54 | johnx | do you want to be bored? |
| 15:04.59 | Meizirkki | just tell me what's in your mind :P |
| 15:05.12 | Stskeeps | Meizirkki: [15:52] <johnx> yes, groups that might help: plugdev, netdev |
| 15:05.18 | Stskeeps | and then try network manager again |
| 15:05.21 | Meizirkki | ok |
| 15:05.31 | Meizirkki | i have to download nm... |
| 15:05.43 | Stskeeps | yeah, we should set up a donation found for your testing |
| 15:05.44 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 15:05.46 | Stskeeps | fund |
| 15:05.59 | johnx | also might be worth trying it as root, just for fun |
| 15:06.17 | Stskeeps | true, it acted weird on root too |
| 15:06.20 | Stskeeps | i thin |
| 15:06.21 | Stskeeps | k |
| 15:06.40 | johnx | sees what happens when he runs first-boot-wizard... |
| 15:06.48 | Meizirkki | hehe, i'm just 14. This is fun, no need for money :P |
| 15:07.26 | Meizirkki | ! |
| 15:07.41 | Meizirkki | when i start wicd as root it gives me this: |
| 15:07.50 | Meizirkki | /var/run/wicd/wicd.pid |
| 15:08.07 | Meizirkki | i open that file, there is only: 2129 |
| 15:08.14 | Stskeeps | Meizirkki: yeah, except you wont be able to get pygtk to work :P |
| 15:08.28 | Stskeeps | so you cant actually talk to it |
| 15:08.37 | Meizirkki | ok |
| 15:08.40 | Meizirkki | moving to nm-applet... |
| 15:10.43 | johnx | woo! do we have an official Mer background? |
| 15:11.00 | Stskeeps | not yet? :P |
| 15:11.28 | johnx | this first-boot-wizard works nicely, but it would look better with a background :) |
| 15:11.30 | Meizirkki | wants to try first-boot-wizard... |
| 15:11.30 | Stskeeps | hehe |
| 15:11.46 | Stskeeps | johnx: if we can find Meizirkki's background open licensed, :P |
| 15:12.04 | Meizirkki | two-moons? |
| 15:12.08 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 15:12.10 | Stskeeps | "We skipped the "E" release by jumping from "D"iablo to "F"remantle. " |
| 15:12.14 | Meizirkki | i think itäs gpl or something |
| 15:12.15 | Stskeeps | oh that explains a -lot- |
| 15:12.21 | *** join/#maemo kcome (n=kcome@58.217.134.113) |
| 15:12.47 | Meizirkki | s/itäs/it's/ |
| 15:12.53 | johnx | and then my X server died O_o |
| 15:12.54 | Stskeeps | what was url again? |
| 15:13.06 | Stskeeps | johnx: when last client exits maybe? |
| 15:13.17 | johnx | I got a backtrace and a signal 11 |
| 15:13.21 | Stskeeps | odd |
| 15:13.30 | Meizirkki | Stskeeps to the background? |
| 15:13.35 | Meizirkki | i'm gidding it up |
| 15:13.37 | Meizirkki | sec |
| 15:14.46 | Meizirkki | http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Peace?content=90816 |
| 15:14.54 | Meizirkki | widescreen: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Peace?content=90925 |
| 15:15.07 | Meizirkki | i still have no idea about the author |
| 15:16.57 | *** join/#maemo x29a (n=x29a@unaffiliated/x29a) |
| 15:19.58 | Stskeeps | Meizirkki: mm, looks like it is not distributable |
| 15:21.21 | *** join/#maemo dougt (n=dougt@c-69-181-65-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:21.50 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@200.184.118.130) |
| 15:22.23 | *** join/#maemo ToyKeeper (n=nnToyKee@74.95.113.201) |
| 15:22.48 | Meizirkki | Stskeeps: i think i wicd and wifi-radar fucked up my network settings. nm-applet does not even scan for networks now |
| 15:23.20 | johnx | Meizirkki, see anything interesting in dmesg? |
| 15:23.23 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (n=murrayc@dslb-088-064-084-008.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:23.24 | TheFatal | any1 speak spanish ? |
| 15:24.03 | johnx | un poco |
| 15:24.33 | TheFatal | existe alguna forma de actualizar el fw desde el n810 ? |
| 15:25.23 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 15:26.04 | Meizirkki | johnx: there is "cannoty get GPIO configuration for device" and "probe of spi2.1 failed" in dmesg |
| 15:26.20 | johnx | Meizirkki, probably not connected |
| 15:27.33 | *** join/#maemo Knowledge (n=Knowledg@c-76-29-11-1.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 15:27.54 | Meizirkki | i'm gonna reinstall Mer and try nm-applet without messing with wicd and wifi-radar |
| 15:28.13 | Stskeeps | k |
| 15:28.14 | johnx | TheFatal, si, pero no es facil. |
| 15:30.55 | TheFatal | johnx: tenes la pagina donde dice como hacerlo ?? |
| 15:33.17 | Stskeeps | johnx: heh, http://obukhoff.su/photos/displayimage.php?album=6&pos=146 |
| 15:33.25 | lardman | que es hacerlo? |
| 15:33.53 | johnx | TheFatal, leer /usr/bin/flash-and-reboot |
| 15:34.14 | TheFatal | lardman: kind of make |
| 15:34.33 | lardman | TheFatal: gracias :) |
| 15:34.54 | johnx | TheFatal, flash-and-reboot es un shell script que 'flashes' kernel y initfs |
| 15:36.15 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gateway.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 15:36.27 | *** join/#maemo fab__ (n=bellet@bellet.info) |
| 15:37.11 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gateway.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 15:37.33 | TheFatal | johnx: pero se puede usar en el N810 sin conectar a la computadora ? |
| 15:38.07 | *** join/#maemo dougt_ (n=dougt@c-69-181-65-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:38.33 | lardman | si es possible |
| 15:38.52 | lardman | todos con el N810 |
| 15:39.05 | lardman | sorry for my rubbish Spanish too :) |
| 15:39.48 | lardman | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:40.33 | TheFatal | lardman: se entiende :) gracias |
| 15:40.41 | lardman | de nada |
| 15:41.01 | *** join/#maemo bedboi (n=bedboi@c3lab.poliba.it) |
| 15:41.03 | bedboi | hi there. |
| 15:42.50 | dneary | hola |
| 15:42.59 | dneary | hablamos en espagnol? |
| 15:43.04 | TheFatal | hi/hola :P |
| 15:45.43 | lardman | dneary: I take that as a no :) |
| 15:46.34 | dneary | no intiendo espagnol, mas hablo muy bien |
| 15:46.57 | dneary | No soy marinero |
| 15:47.03 | dneary | soy capitan |
| 15:47.10 | lardman | too fast for me! |
| 15:47.51 | dneary | I know |
| 15:48.03 | lardman | :p |
| 15:48.09 | dneary | para balar la bamba es necesita una poca de graca |
| 15:48.34 | lardman | ~google graca |
| 15:49.02 | lardman | Google no se graca, que es? |
| 15:49.14 | r2d2rogers | to dance the bamba you need a little grace? |
| 15:49.19 | johnx | dneary, :P |
| 15:50.43 | lardman | I always wonder what the lyrics are, and now Dave has prompted me to find out while I'm sat in front of a PC (rather than drinking at someone's wedding) |
| 15:54.31 | *** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@p5B20213E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:54.50 | dneary | lardman: You're welcome (I think) |
| 15:54.56 | lardman | :) |
| 15:55.20 | lardman | o fortuna is next |
| 15:59.39 | *** join/#maemo L0cutus (n=kki@host-84-223-126-145.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 16:00.13 | *** join/#maemo timeless (n=timeless@webwizardry.net) |
| 16:00.22 | alterego | I suppose the Maemo.org wiki would be the ideal place to write Ruby-Maemo documentation/tutorials/examples. |
| 16:00.38 | alterego | Rather than my setting up my own :) |
| 16:01.09 | lardman | yep :) |
| 16:01.11 | *** join/#maemo Zic (n=zic@ubuntu/member/zic) |
| 16:01.38 | *** join/#maemo Sargun (n=Sargun@66.151.148.225) |
| 16:03.04 | Andrewfblack | Stskeeps You around? |
| 16:03.06 | Stskeeps | mm? |
| 16:03.22 | Andrewfblack | https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=754&release_id=2329 new release of MerEcho |
| 16:03.33 | Stskeeps | thanks, what are the changes+ |
| 16:03.34 | Stskeeps | ? |
| 16:03.46 | Stskeeps | (any new screenshots?) |
| 16:03.50 | johnx | woo! new Mer echo! |
| 16:03.54 | johnx | perfect timing :) |
| 16:04.05 | Andrewfblack | A ton, I had to get ride of the transpance due to mer not being able to do that yet |
| 16:04.10 | Andrewfblack | one sec on screenshots |
| 16:04.13 | lardman | has someone got the alpha SDK installed and in front of them? |
| 16:04.19 | Stskeeps | fremantle one? |
| 16:04.22 | lardman | yep |
| 16:04.24 | Stskeeps | not in front of me, but in my office :P |
| 16:04.25 | Stskeeps | why? |
| 16:04.32 | Stskeeps | (i can ssh in) |
| 16:04.39 | lardman | I want to check is g77/f77/gfortan comes in it |
| 16:04.43 | lardman | s/is/if |
| 16:05.05 | lardman | ah, no need, someone's already done it |
| 16:05.08 | lardman | sorry for the bother |
| 16:05.40 | Stskeeps | can't see it |
| 16:05.45 | lardman | no, it's not there |
| 16:06.01 | lardman | just trying to get some info for a bug I opened long ago |
| 16:06.19 | lardman | Eero answered anyway |
| 16:07.05 | Stskeeps | Andrewfblack: testing |
| 16:08.51 | Jaffa | dneary: pong |
| 16:11.54 | Andrewfblack | Stskeeps http://www.andrewblck.com/Stuff/screenshot06.png http://www.andrewblck.com/Stuff/screenshot07.png http://www.andrewblck.com/Stuff/screenshot08.png |
| 16:12.07 | Andrewfblack | All I could grab before Nokia Died on me |
| 16:12.43 | r2d2rogers | any way to set theme from command line in Mer that I'm playing with? |
| 16:13.04 | johnx | Andrewfblack, that looks a lot like the theme I've been wanting to make for a while :D |
| 16:13.07 | Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: editing start-hildon |
| 16:13.33 | Andrewfblack | johnx If you want to help I'm going to release the source to it soon. |
| 16:13.57 | r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: thanks |
| 16:14.09 | johnx | sounds good, I might do a color variation... |
| 16:14.17 | Andrewfblack | You know I find more errors taking a screen shot and blowing it up lol little 1 pixel things you can't see on tablet |
| 16:14.32 | Stskeeps | Andrewfblack: i'm not exactly sure why but my "take screenshot" applet doesnt show up in extras anymore :) |
| 16:14.53 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A15E5E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:16.11 | Andrewfblack | I need to come up with a better name then MerEcho now since it looks nothing like Echo theme anymore lol |
| 16:16.29 | Stskeeps | it reminds me a bit of some b-movie i watched.. |
| 16:16.40 | thopiekar | hi |
| 16:17.07 | dneary | Jaffa: How does 14h UTC next Tuesday suit you for a web design meeting? |
| 16:17.17 | Andrewfblack | Stskeeps I was trying to go with something kinda simple that could be built on later |
| 16:17.18 | TheFatal | alguien que hable español: se le puede poner ubuntu o fedora a N810 ?? |
| 16:17.29 | Stskeeps | Andrewfblack: hehe, yeah |
| 16:18.02 | Andrewfblack | I'm not in love with my custom icons yet, but I don't like stock ones either |
| 16:18.10 | Stskeeps | we dont really have that many stock icons :P |
| 16:18.30 | TheFatal | N810 -> Fedora/Ubuntu... possible ?? |
| 16:18.40 | Stskeeps | TheFatal: ubuntu definately, but not that fast |
| 16:18.41 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 16:18.46 | Jaffa | dneary: perfick, since I'm on paternity leave |
| 16:19.02 | TheFatal | but possible :) |
| 16:19.08 | TheFatal | and fedora ? |
| 16:19.13 | Stskeeps | no clue. someone started |
| 16:19.17 | Stskeeps | no idea how far they got |
| 16:19.26 | johnx | TheFatal, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25975 |
| 16:19.42 | johnx | ^ubuntu^ |
| 16:19.56 | *** join/#maemo skibur (n=skibur@adsl-66-143-247-246.dsl.snantx.swbell.net) |
| 16:20.59 | TheFatal | :O |
| 16:21.00 | TheFatal | jaja |
| 16:22.09 | johnx | poco dificil, :) |
| 16:22.24 | TheFatal | si :S |
| 16:22.37 | Stskeeps | wonders what set_theme is |
| 16:22.45 | TheFatal | xD |
| 16:26.01 | johnx | TheFatal, ?usa linux en su desktop? |
| 16:26.03 | dneary | Jaffa: Perfick |
| 16:26.08 | *** join/#maemo aantn (n=natan@bzq-82-81-45-195.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 16:26.12 | dneary | Better than our usual wacky meeting times :) |
| 16:26.20 | TheFatal | johnx: yes, allways :) |
| 16:26.37 | TheFatal | Fedora |
| 16:27.05 | TheFatal | johnx: why ? |
| 16:27.16 | johnx | <- curioso solomente |
| 16:27.22 | TheFatal | xD |
| 16:27.24 | johnx | :) |
| 16:27.35 | TheFatal | can i use mmc for swap ? |
| 16:28.04 | TheFatal | maybe -> swapon /dev/mmcblk0p2 |
| 16:28.23 | johnx | yes, settings -> control panel -> memory (?) |
| 16:28.36 | TheFatal | no |
| 16:28.49 | johnx | en ubuntu/fedora: swapon :) |
| 16:28.55 | TheFatal | xD |
| 16:28.59 | TheFatal | yes |
| 16:29.02 | TheFatal | but in N810 xD |
| 16:29.17 | johnx | settings -> control panel -> ??? |
| 16:29.19 | johnx | I forgot |
| 16:29.26 | Stskeeps | johnx: we could consider making MyDocs and .images .music etc too btw |
| 16:29.34 | Stskeeps | then load applet screenshots will actually work |
| 16:29.34 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 16:29.41 | Stskeeps | and we'll get purdy file chooser |
| 16:29.55 | AFB|Away | hey is there a web server that allows you to run php files on your tablet |
| 16:29.59 | johnx | ah, can just throw those in /etc/skel I suppose |
| 16:30.00 | TheFatal | johnx: there is not the option "swap" or "swapon" in control pannel |
| 16:30.11 | johnx | AFB|Away, nginx or apache or lightttpd |
| 16:30.16 | Stskeeps | AFB|Away: Mer, apt-get install apache and php? ;) |
| 16:30.35 | Meizirkki | Stskeeps: i'm not sure, but if there is "MyDocs" in home dir, hildon will make ".xxx" subdirectories automatically |
| 16:30.38 | qwerty12 | AFB|Away, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=235084&postcount=19 |
| 16:30.52 | Stskeeps | Meizirkki: even on mer? :P |
| 16:31.11 | *** join/#maemo chenca (n=chenca@200.184.118.130) |
| 16:32.50 | AFB|Away | nginx is the one i used to use they all run about same speed |
| 16:33.06 | *** join/#maemo booiiing (n=[booiiin@e180031073.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:33.37 | *** join/#maemo philipl (i=1000@c-98-210-152-237.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 16:33.54 | johnx | TheFatal, settings -> control panel -> memory |
| 16:33.56 | TheFatal | unmount /media/mmc2 -> swapon /dev/mmcblk0p2 (?) works ? |
| 16:34.09 | TheFatal | johnx: but only can put 128 mb :S |
| 16:34.13 | TheFatal | i want more ! :D |
| 16:34.20 | TheFatal | i need more too :P |
| 16:34.29 | TheFatal | games, games, games :) |
| 16:35.10 | Stskeeps | you're not going to run halo 2 on it.. :> |
| 16:35.22 | johnx | cual game? |
| 16:35.52 | johnx | s/game/juego/ |
| 16:35.53 | TheFatal | some for ps2 for example... game (eng) -> juego (esp) :P |
| 16:36.17 | johnx | no way to play ps2 games |
| 16:36.29 | TheFatal | if psp |
| 16:36.30 | TheFatal | psp |
| 16:36.32 | johnx | no |
| 16:37.14 | TheFatal | but if the hardw its better |
| 16:37.15 | TheFatal | S: |
| 16:37.17 | TheFatal | :S |
| 16:37.28 | *** join/#maemo StsN800 (n=user@84.238.94.136) |
| 16:37.49 | TheFatal | in psp can only put (for example) win98, in n810, winXP |
| 16:37.50 | johnx | TheFatal, gameboy advance works |
| 16:38.01 | TheFatal | suks gba |
| 16:38.06 | TheFatal | gba suks :P |
| 16:38.37 | johnx | emulation needs 12 times the CPU power to work |
| 16:39.27 | TheFatal | and how **** psp can run whit less hw |
| 16:39.33 | Meizirkki | Stskeeps: yes i think so |
| 16:41.51 | TheFatal | PSP: cpu 333Mhz, dram 4 mbs |
| 16:42.32 | johnx | N810 CPU: 400MHz. 333 x 12 != 400 |
| 16:42.42 | Meizirkki | Stskeeps: nm-applet still doesn't want to connect |
| 16:42.48 | Meizirkki | i added groups |
| 16:43.20 | StsN800 | Meizirkki, k, try to get /var/log/messages or alike |
| 16:45.00 | r2d2rogers | i broke something on my X in Mer on 770, any good route to grab a fresh install at this point? |
| 16:46.17 | StsN800 | Meizirkki, and /home/whatever/.xsession-errors |
| 16:47.07 | TheFatal | johnx: the psp have dual core... thats why... |
| 16:48.24 | Meizirkki | StsN800: k |
| 16:51.26 | tank-man | psp has dual nothing, it doesnt multitask |
| 16:51.43 | Meizirkki | r2d2rogers: imager? |
| 16:52.16 | StsN800 | r2d2rogers, will make a 0.6 770 image too. imager is best bet otherwise |
| 16:52.45 | TheFatal | psp have 2 333 mhz cpus, or no ? |
| 16:52.51 | r2d2rogers | Meizirkki, StsN800, thanks, digging in launchpad for now |
| 16:53.11 | r2d2rogers | will use my platform and target files |
| 16:55.51 | Stskeeps | we switched to using 'auto-startx' now instead of rc.local thing |
| 16:56.35 | *** part/#maemo bedboi (n=bedboi@c3lab.poliba.it) |
| 16:56.45 | r2d2rogers | ::nods:: I was wanting to see how well that worked on the 770 |
| 16:56.57 | johnx | packages furiously |
| 16:57.12 | Stskeeps | prolly good if you remove sapwood initialization from start-hildon :P |
| 16:57.13 | r2d2rogers | I still need to get the SDK at some point I guess |
| 16:57.18 | r2d2rogers | <G> |
| 17:00.00 | *** join/#maemo madhav (n=Administ@122.172.55.246) |
| 17:03.26 | r2d2rogers | I only have /dev/fb0 but Xorg is trying to use /dev/fb1, and xorg.conf says /dev/fb0 |
| 17:04.28 | Meizirkki | Stskeeps: how did you get osso-xterm installed? i am getting dependency problem (osso-xterm depends on libvte4, but mer wants to install the ubuntu one) |
| 17:06.52 | Meizirkki | r2d2rogers, you can create symlink. |
| 17:07.14 | johnx | Meizirkki, do you have roxterm installed? |
| 17:07.18 | RST38h | well, moo |
| 17:07.29 | *** join/#maemo frade (n=ivan@a88-114-88-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:07.35 | Meizirkki | johnx: yes |
| 17:07.47 | *** join/#maemo dlmarti (n=David@dsl092-055-171.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 17:07.48 | Meizirkki | RST38h: moo |
| 17:08.02 | qwerty12 | hi RST38h |
| 17:08.16 | johnx | it depends on another libvte. might have to uninstall that first |
| 17:08.33 | Meizirkki | johnx: ok, thanks |
| 17:08.52 | Meizirkki | i am willing to uninstall roxterm anyway, because chr opens menu |
| 17:09.03 | Meizirkki | and i am using chr for Mode_switch |
| 17:09.08 | Meizirkki | (xmodmap) |
| 17:10.01 | AFB|Away | wow I have lighttpd running at 117% of my cpu power how is that even possible lol |
| 17:10.54 | StsN800 | magic |
| 17:11.19 | johnx | AFB|Away, watch out. you're racking up CPU debt |
| 17:11.50 | Meizirkki | load-applets process-dialog shows six number cpu-usage when closing an app :) |
| 17:12.27 | AFB|Away | I think I am just trying to run someone with to much php code for hte tablet |
| 17:13.07 | AFB|Away | I wonder if any of the speed mods i see on itT really work |
| 17:13.32 | johnx | depends on what your limitation is |
| 17:13.41 | TheFatal | cual es la temperatura promedio del n810 ? |
| 17:14.10 | AFB|Away | does the n810 processor slow down as the battery dies like some laptops? |
| 17:15.00 | johnx | AFB|Away, nope. it scales up and down depending on load. if you're getting slow response time you could lock it in performance mode |
| 17:15.16 | johnx | but if it's sitting at 100% already it won't make a difference |
| 17:15.21 | AFB|Away | how do you do that? |
| 17:16.24 | qwerty12 | echo performance > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor |
| 17:16.31 | johnx | as root of course |
| 17:16.35 | qwerty12 | or just use advanced power |
| 17:16.38 | qwerty12 | of course |
| 17:16.52 | lardman | TheFatal: ~30C for me |
| 17:17.09 | AFB|Away | well lighttpd is jumping all around will locking it in help? |
| 17:17.45 | Andrewfblack | I haven't had time to install Advance Power Yet is it in extras? |
| 17:17.52 | lardman | TheFatal: when listening to mp3s that is |
| 17:17.52 | qwerty12 | no |
| 17:18.07 | Andrewfblack | garage or is like on itT? |
| 17:18.14 | qwerty12 | it's on both |
| 17:18.20 | Andrewfblack | ok |
| 17:19.13 | TheFatal | lardman: tnks... |
| 17:19.24 | lardman | np |
| 17:20.42 | Andrewfblack | I've fallen behind on what new apps are out, hard to beleave how much time I've been on tablet these last 2 days I was ready to get ride of it on monday lol |
| 17:21.10 | johnx | yup, it sucks you back in :) |
| 17:21.54 | *** join/#maemo tchan (n=tchan@c-67-173-9-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 17:23.18 | TheFatal | its necesary to install telnet server ?? |
| 17:23.47 | johnx | no |
| 17:23.55 | Andrewfblack | can I not install Advanced Power from App Manager says I'm missing some depends but I can't find then |
| 17:24.15 | qwerty12 | install it with dpkg and then just do an apt-get -f install |
| 17:24.38 | TheFatal | and ssh server ? |
| 17:25.26 | johnx | ssh server? necesario? no. |
| 17:25.53 | StsN800 | but helpful |
| 17:26.45 | johnx | ssh server es conveniente por muchas razones, pero no es necesario |
| 17:27.26 | TheFatal | :S i'm setting the n810 config to boot from a flash card. but why its helpful ? |
| 17:27.35 | TheFatal | nose si lo dije bien :S |
| 17:27.51 | Andrewfblack | qwerty12 whats the command to install it with dpkg |
| 17:27.52 | r2d2rogers | StsN800: missing /usr/lib/dri/swrast_dri.so |
| 17:27.57 | johnx | TheFatal, por debug :) |
| 17:28.00 | qwerty12 | Andrewfblack, dpkg -i <deb file> |
| 17:28.07 | Andrewfblack | thanks couldn't remember the -i |
| 17:28.10 | r2d2rogers | AIGLX error fromt he Xorg log |
| 17:28.33 | qwerty12 | TheFatal, generally, if you don't know why you are doing something, it's not the best of ideas to do it... |
| 17:28.56 | StsN800 | r2d2rogers, normal |
| 17:29.03 | StsN800 | no opengl;) |
| 17:29.15 | TheFatal | qwerty12: i want to boot n810 from a flash card |
| 17:29.16 | r2d2rogers | ok that makes more sense <G> |
| 17:29.39 | TheFatal | i follow this https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card |
| 17:29.50 | johnx | zenity won't find XML::Parser inside mer sdk but it builds on native ARM. will commit first-boot-wizard and work on zenity tomorrow |
| 17:30.26 | *** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@cs181192153.pp.htv.fi) |
| 17:31.17 | qwerty12 | XML::Parser being a perl thing? |
| 17:31.27 | johnx | yeah, it is installed |
| 17:32.33 | qwerty12 | The only thing perl in zenity is the gdialog script iirc, you could probably remove it from the package. Or you could edit debian/rules and remove the PERL lines I shoved in there to force it to use maemo's perl; not scratchbox's perl |
| 17:33.04 | johnx | ok, I'll do that tomorrow :) 2:30AM here O_o |
| 17:33.11 | StsN800 | johnx, sec |
| 17:33.22 | johnx | k |
| 17:33.26 | *** join/#maemo trickie (n=trickie@hgaulton.xs4all.nl) |
| 17:33.27 | StsN800 | johnx, mer ssdk your side or builder? |
| 17:33.37 | *** join/#maemo eichi_ (n=eichi@p5B2024CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:33.38 | qwerty12 | johnx, Wow, I don't have the power to stay up that long :D |
| 17:33.43 | johnx | Stskeeps, my side |
| 17:33.48 | StsN800 | if your side, missing perl devkit |
| 17:33.59 | johnx | aaah, that might do it |
| 17:34.02 | StsN800 | another thing to add to wiki |
| 17:34.16 | johnx | anyways, I'll look at it first thing tomorrow |
| 17:34.35 | johnx | qwerty12, I screwed up my sleep schedule O_o |
| 17:34.47 | *** join/#maemo Meiz_n810 (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-fee7dc00-167.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:34.48 | johnx | anyways, thanks for the help. 'night |
| 17:35.03 | qwerty12 | Although, anyone know if doing an export PATH=/usr/bin:$PATH is possible in Makefile syntax like it is in bash? |
| 17:35.06 | qwerty12 | night johnx |
| 17:35.17 | Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps / johnx : apt-get dist-upgrade: http://pastebin.com/m21c0a10e |
| 17:35.52 | TheFatal | ./nupgrade.sh 0 -> Error message: "Unable to identify target devuce and partition whit a valid linux filesystem (type 83) |
| 17:36.18 | qwerty12 | TheFatal, https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card#Partition_your_card |
| 17:37.11 | lardman | cu later chaps |
| 17:37.15 | TheFatal | i have it |
| 17:38.39 | TheFatal | i have all |
| 17:39.36 | TheFatal | but when i run nupgrade.sh 0, appears the error message |
| 17:40.20 | qwerty12 | StsN800, I hope when you promote Mer, it isn't like this: https://usshop.ubuntu.com/training.php?catid=5 :P |
| 17:41.17 | StsN800 | dear god |
| 17:41.49 | StsN800 | and whats with the shit brown color shirts anyway? |
| 17:42.23 | qwerty12 | The way the guy on the right is looking at the guy on the left makes me wonder :P |
| 17:43.05 | StsN800 | next ubuntu colour scheme will be rainbow, eh |
| 17:43.38 | *** join/#maemo kimitake__ (n=kimitake@69.239.192.28) |
| 17:44.13 | qwerty12 | http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=428 - for all you KDE lovers |
| 18:01.37 | *** join/#maemo k-s (n=gustavo@201.82.36.160) |
| 18:01.52 | r2d2rogers | kicks off the old imager run while he goes to lunch |
| 18:02.15 | Andrewfblack | if I use nginx can i install php to go with it? |
| 18:02.53 | *** join/#maemo ceyusa (n=ceyusa@189.163.35.95) |
| 18:03.36 | *** join/#maemo lardman (n=simon@78.150.71.53) |
| 18:04.01 | lardman | any council people about? |
| 18:04.04 | *** join/#maemo k-s (n=gustavo@201.82.36.160) |
| 18:04.06 | lardman | GeneralAntilles: ping |
| 18:04.10 | lardman | Jaffa: ping |
| 18:05.26 | Jaffa | lardman: pong |
| 18:16.14 | *** join/#maemo doc|home (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 18:20.02 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:20.09 | TheFatal | how i unmount a partition ? |
| 18:20.20 | TheFatal | bcos unmount: not found :S |
| 18:20.31 | TheFatal | i hate my english -.- |
| 18:20.40 | lcuk | umount isnt it |
| 18:20.50 | TheFatal | https://wiki.maemo.org/Partitioning_a_flash_card |
| 18:21.11 | TheFatal | its says "unmoun" |
| 18:21.14 | TheFatal | unmount" |
| 18:21.22 | lcuk | where? |
| 18:21.29 | TheFatal | the url |
| 18:21.37 | lcuk | im looking |
| 18:21.40 | TheFatal | In Xterm on your tablet, run: |
| 18:21.41 | lcuk | unmount not found on page |
| 18:21.42 | TheFatal | apt-get install e2fsprogs |
| 18:21.43 | lcuk | but umount is |
| 18:21.43 | TheFatal | umount /media/mmc1 |
| 18:21.45 | TheFatal | umount /media/mmc2 |
| 18:21.46 | TheFatal | sfdisk /dev/mmcblk0 |
| 18:21.48 | TheFatal | /dev/mmcblk0p1:1,15000,6 |
| 18:21.49 | TheFatal | /dev/mmcblk0p2:15001,, |
| 18:21.51 | TheFatal | /dev/mmcblk0p3: |
| 18:21.52 | TheFatal | /dev/mmcblk0p4: |
| 18:21.54 | TheFatal | ou |
| 18:21.55 | TheFatal | -.- |
| 18:21.57 | TheFatal | srry |
| 18:22.02 | TheFatal | i read bad =P |
| 18:22.17 | lcuk | yes, you do :D heh |
| 18:22.22 | TheFatal | xD |
| 18:23.24 | TheFatal | if mmc2 its busy, how can i unmount it ? :S |
| 18:23.36 | tank-man | close all programs accessing files on the card |
| 18:23.52 | lcuk | just reboot and make sure usb isnt in and stuff |
| 18:24.00 | lcuk | simplest cleanest thing |
| 18:24.07 | tank-man | such a windows solution |
| 18:24.13 | lcuk | works though :) |
| 18:24.15 | TheFatal | can i kill process ? |
| 18:24.33 | lcuk | some, yes but if you arent root maybe not |
| 18:24.58 | TheFatal | yes, i'm root, but can i make something "bad" ? |
| 18:25.07 | TheFatal | whit kill command |
| 18:25.44 | TheFatal | puedo romper algo ? can i make some crash ? |
| 18:28.15 | lcuk | TheFatal, yes, if you stop a required process all hell can break loose and firey demons will fly up and vaporise you :) |
| 18:28.48 | TheFatal | xD |
| 18:28.57 | TheFatal | i mean data... |
| 18:29.09 | lcuk | yeah, so did i |
| 18:29.17 | TheFatal | ok |
| 18:29.40 | lcuk | if the process is busy doing something when you shut it off it may leave the data in a bad state |
| 18:32.29 | TheFatal | ok, i'm going crazy... |
| 18:33.53 | *** join/#maemo dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:34.01 | TheFatal | can u tell me how format, partition the flash card and boot from the flash card ?? |
| 18:34.43 | *** join/#maemo pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0C0BA.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:35.31 | RST38h | back |
| 18:35.37 | RST38h | ehlo lcuk, how are things? |
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| 19:06.00 | Xamusk | damn... ukmp sucks |
| 19:06.03 | *** join/#maemo BrentDC (n=user@cpe-74-71-17-36.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 19:06.18 | Xamusk | it doesn't even start without an external card! |
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| 19:12.40 | Meiz_n810 | Tear console output and as far as i can get with nm-applet in Mer: http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/Screenshot-4.png |
| 19:13.49 | r2d2rogers | Meiz_n810: I was getting similar messages with tear |
| 19:13.57 | r2d2rogers | invalid pointer... |
| 19:14.14 | TheFatal | what theme is it ? |
| 19:14.24 | Meiz_n810 | plankton |
| 19:14.31 | *** join/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host81-129-204-237.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:14.31 | Meiz_n810 | with no transparency |
| 19:14.41 | Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: similar i could get |
| 19:15.16 | Meiz_n810 | could that "pointer" have something to do with the finger scrolling? (wild guess) |
| 19:15.45 | *** part/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host81-129-204-237.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:16.27 | Andrewfblack | hey got a problem I have nginx and php5 installed but when I got to the php file it just wants me to download the file |
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| 19:20.21 | r2d2rogers | remembers he has to comment out some things to get to X for Mer on the 770 |
| 19:21.03 | GeneralAntilles | lardman, pong? |
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| 19:28.38 | TheFatal | can i format the n810 flash memory ? |
| 19:35.49 | gladiac | you can, but then you don't have a system you can boot |
| 19:37.29 | *** join/#maemo punkass (n=user@unaffiliated/punkass) |
| 19:39.26 | GeneralAntilles | I'm assuming he's talking about the soldered-on 2GB |
| 19:40.02 | gladiac | TheFatal: you mean the internal fat32 system |
| 19:42.17 | TheFatal | nono, for example... i want to format my winXP computer. I format it, and after i install winXP, but without all programs |
| 19:42.34 | TheFatal | something like that |
| 19:42.40 | GeneralAntilles | ~flashing |
| 19:42.41 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 19:42.57 | TheFatal | but i have not the usb connector |
| 19:43.01 | TheFatal | i lost it :S |
| 19:43.29 | GeneralAntilles | minib connectors are a dime a dozen |
| 19:43.39 | GeneralAntilles | You can pick up a six-pack at the grocery store for $7.99 |
| 19:43.54 | TheFatal | where ? in argentina ? |
| 19:44.01 | TheFatal | in usa |
| 19:44.28 | TheFatal | here in argentina its about $20 |
| 19:45.19 | Andrewfblack | Get a Mini ot Micro USB cable from Cell Phone store about 5 Dollars designed to be used on New Razor with out buying new cables |
| 19:46.25 | *** join/#maemo Vulcanis (i=Vulcanis@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 19:46.32 | Andrewfblack | http://www.amazon.com/Motorola-MicroUSB-Adapter-RAZR2-SKN6252/dp/B001EJFZ5G wow down to $1.79 I might get me a few extras |
| 19:47.07 | *** join/#maemo alecrim_ (n=alecrim@192.100.104.170) |
| 19:47.51 | RST38h | General: Are they edible? |
| 19:48.42 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, the chocolate coated version are $9.99 |
| 19:48.45 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at) |
| 19:48.55 | doc|home | * may induce death |
| 19:48.57 | GeneralAntilles | Cellular people on itT still crack me up. |
| 19:49.11 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=255476&postcount=24 |
| 19:49.17 | GeneralAntilles | PCIe |
| 19:49.17 | GeneralAntilles | Ha |
| 19:50.31 | Andrewfblack | Hey if we are putting PCIe in I have some other ideas for stuff to add to lol |
| 19:50.55 | GeneralAntilles | Hrm http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/08/the-palm-pre/#continued |
| 19:51.04 | GeneralAntilles | PCIe would be so ridiculously expensive. |
| 19:51.07 | doc|home | GeneralAntilles: looks good |
| 19:51.17 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at) |
| 19:51.23 | GeneralAntilles | Perhaps Palm may become relevant again. |
| 19:51.54 | gladiac | wow, the new webkit-eal runs really smooth |
| 19:52.13 | Xamusk | I wonder if they'll put FM radio back into the tablets |
| 19:52.23 | GeneralAntilles | Xamusk, and an FM transmitter |
| 19:52.26 | GeneralAntilles | both with RDS support |
| 19:52.40 | Andrewfblack | GeneralAntilles Maybe XM radio? |
| 19:52.45 | GeneralAntilles | No. |
| 19:52.51 | Xamusk | no XM |
| 19:52.58 | GeneralAntilles | But with 3G you can just stream whatever. . . . |
| 19:53.05 | Andrewfblack | was a joke |
| 19:53.13 | Xamusk | common FM reception without needing the headphones as antenna |
| 19:53.36 | gladiac | Khertan: ping |
| 19:53.45 | GeneralAntilles | Xamusk, no idea how it'll be wired. |
| 19:53.47 | Andrewfblack | I do wish there was a XMRO player for tablets |
| 19:53.55 | Xamusk | though I think 3G would be nice indeed |
| 19:54.27 | Xamusk | no-phones are good for tablet people, but phone stuff does wonders to gain markets |
| 19:56.35 | mavhc | reason I bought an n810 instead of a smartphone is it's half the price |
| 19:56.48 | mavhc | dunno why a cellular radio costs $300 |
| 19:58.04 | GeneralAntilles | Carrier requirements, government regulatory agencies |
| 19:58.09 | GeneralAntilles | Both are very expensive |
| 19:58.30 | mavhc | but flat rate, not per deivce |
| 19:58.38 | GeneralAntilles | Per-device |
| 19:58.59 | GeneralAntilles | Just because one device is certified, doesn't mean all devices from that manufacturer automatically are. :) |
| 19:59.13 | mavhc | I mean 1 model |
| 19:59.29 | mavhc | it's not $300 per machine sold |
| 19:59.35 | Andrewfblack | Whats the fastest browser for N810 I don't care about features just speed |
| 19:59.48 | mavhc | do you care about javascript? |
| 19:59.53 | Xamusk | is there lynx for N810? |
| 19:59.59 | GeneralAntilles | Er, well, it's millions upon millions of dollars and that cost has to be spread out over all units sold. . . . |
| 20:00.00 | gladiac | Andrewfblack: webkit-eal |
| 20:00.00 | Andrewfblack | well yeah javeascript |
| 20:00.04 | GeneralAntilles | links2 |
| 20:00.05 | Xamusk | maybe python's urllib :) |
| 20:00.08 | gladiac | webkit backend for the standard browser |
| 20:00.29 | gladiac | GeneralAntilles: i would prefer elinks |
| 20:01.01 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@a88-114-221-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:01.02 | gladiac | Andrewfblack: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25752 |
| 20:03.03 | *** join/#maemo glass (i=glass@ip242.otanner5.opintanner.fi) |
| 20:03.15 | mavhc | I played with a blackberry storm today, like the hover then click GUI, that's what's been annoying about touchscreens |
| 20:05.58 | Grackle | Oh are there visual cues as to where you're about to hit before your finger touches the screen? |
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| 20:13.58 | Andrewfblack | gladiac well I can't say webkit for default is faster for me crashes everyime I open it |
| 20:14.18 | gladiac | Andrewfblack: reboot the device |
| 20:14.33 | Andrewfblack | i did |
| 20:14.38 | lcuk | RST38h, mmmn they are ok thanks |
| 20:14.42 | gladiac | it works just fine for me |
| 20:14.53 | gladiac | No crashes |
| 20:15.06 | lcuk | Andrewfblack, so it crashes faster than nay other app |
| 20:15.14 | Andrewfblack | lcuk lol thats true |
| 20:15.24 | Andrewfblack | gladiac I'll try removing it and installing again later |
| 20:16.12 | Andrewfblack | anyone know if new fennec update is even worth installign |
| 20:16.38 | gladiac | Andrewfblack: it runs more or less fine |
| 20:16.38 | *** join/#maemo _gregorovius (n=diego@190.19.27.43) |
| 20:16.50 | gladiac | i prefer the standard browser with webkit |
| 20:17.11 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (n=fuchs@f054164161.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:17.28 | TheFatal | here, take a look of the video ;) http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1970588/how_to_update_or_format_nokia_n810/ |
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| 20:19.59 | wazd | Hello everybody |
| 20:20.22 | gladiac | aloha |
| 20:20.28 | gladiac | slotted! |
| 20:20.49 | lcuk | hiya wazd |
| 20:21.44 | RST38h | Palm finally laid an egg |
| 20:21.53 | RST38h | Took them eons |
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| 20:22.15 | wazd | Hey lcuk, seen your PoC with my menu, looks nice) |
| 20:22.17 | Stskeeps | heya wazd |
| 20:23.00 | lcuk | its a start, as said in the forum, was just to see what i needed to do to jump from boxes to clean looking ui elements, and thankfully its a tiny step :) |
| 20:23.30 | lcuk | having the framework around to allow that sort of thing is just as important though |
| 20:23.42 | lcuk | hey Stskeeps, hows mer |
| 20:23.53 | Stskeeps | lcuk: going forward |
| 20:24.16 | lcuk | can i install it and do xv stuff yet? |
| 20:24.18 | wazd | Hello, Stskeeps, sorry again for my long PM reply |
| 20:24.51 | Stskeeps | wazd: hehe, it's fine :) |
| 20:24.54 | Stskeeps | holidays and all |
| 20:25.05 | Stskeeps | lcuk: if you dare to run b-mans installer, maybe |
| 20:25.31 | lcuk | will it fit on a 1gb card? |
| 20:25.42 | Stskeeps | it is 113mb tar.gzed |
| 20:25.50 | lcuk | i mean install |
| 20:26.04 | Stskeeps | yeah, and i think it's like 350-400mb untarred |
| 20:26.30 | wazd | Wow, Palm finaly realized that it's UI looks like "hello 80's?) |
| 20:26.31 | lcuk | oooh, will the installer format correctly on such a small card? |
| 20:26.56 | Stskeeps | lcuk: yeah, .. i think |
| 20:28.01 | lcuk | wazd, wheres the palm announce page thingy |
| 20:28.30 | RST38h | wazd: ....and cloned iPhone. |
| 20:28.46 | BrentDC | Concerning Palm, I thought it would never happen |
| 20:28.53 | RST38h | same here |
| 20:29.16 | BrentDC | That's why I jumped ship earlier this year and bought an N800 |
| 20:29.51 | RST38h | the device is based on OMAP3 btw |
| 20:30.16 | wazd | I'm reading Engadget live from CES |
| 20:30.25 | wazd | http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/08/live-from-palms-ces-press-conference/6#comments |
| 20:30.51 | wazd | Deffinitely an Egg) |
| 20:30.56 | Stslaptop | pokes his dead server corpse (stskeeps) |
| 20:31.24 | qwerty12_N800 | RIP server |
| 20:31.36 | Stslaptop | so not going outside in this cold to restart it |
| 20:32.08 | BrentDC | OMAP3? Sweet. |
| 20:32.21 | wazd | I like the shot "Search: Û" )) |
| 20:32.21 | r2d2rogers | Stslaptop: looks like there's one bit to adjust for the 770 Mer image... the read foo lines in the usbnet file |
| 20:32.31 | Stslaptop | r2d2rogers: yeah, true |
| 20:32.44 | Stslaptop | r2d2rogers: weird center button != enter |
| 20:32.56 | RST38h | ...a pinhole camera made of silver, gold, mercury, gem stones and a Tibetan monk skull blessed by a Lama... |
| 20:33.21 | Jaffa | That Palm device looks nice |
| 20:33.33 | r2d2rogers | Stslaptop: right, other than that though it seems fine, unless you have the remounr ro on errors still there |
| 20:33.43 | Stslaptop | .. possibly |
| 20:34.17 | *** join/#maemo aantn1 (n=natan@bzq-82-81-45-195.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 20:34.30 | r2d2rogers | Stslaptop: do you want to add a default gateway to the USb net script? |
| 20:34.33 | RST38h | Jaffa: Looks like a crude iPhone clone, if you ask me |
| 20:34.48 | Stslaptop | r2d2rogers: i'm thinking of handing it through /etc/network/interfaces |
| 20:34.52 | RST38h | Jaffa: But maybe the devil is in the details somewhere? It is OMAP3 based, and so far there is only one UI screenshot |
| 20:34.53 | Stslaptop | like it is in deblet |
| 20:34.56 | r2d2rogers | Stslaptop: better <G> |
| 20:35.22 | RST38h | Palm claims that it is programmed in "CSS, HTML, and XML" - not a good sign |
| 20:35.31 | Jaffa | RST38h: Except with Bluetooth, a physical keyboard, MicroUSB OTG, standards based development and not everywhere you look? ;-) |
| 20:35.42 | lcuk | not a bad sign either if the framework uses those as its core elements |
| 20:35.45 | RST38h | Jaffa: Yea, but other iPhone clones have these too |
| 20:35.50 | Stslaptop | RST38h: no OS, it's all in javascript |
| 20:35.51 | Stslaptop | :P |
| 20:35.52 | Stslaptop | or something |
| 20:35.55 | RST38h | kinda hoped for some minor miracle from Palm |
| 20:35.57 | lcuk | its omap3 though isnt it |
| 20:36.01 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h: screenshots: http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/08/palm-announces-web-os-platform/#continued |
| 20:36.04 | Jaffa | RST38h: I read "if you *know* about CMSes, HTML, CSS, XML and JavaScript, you can develop for these" - which probably means Prism-based apps |
| 20:36.11 | RST38h | General: =) thanks |
| 20:36.30 | RST38h | It has got wireless charger, miracle wise |
| 20:37.43 | lcuk | this nokia can be just as fast and slick at such a low resolution |
| 20:37.45 | TheFatal | the gps is in /dev/pgps ? |
| 20:38.03 | RST38h | Jaffa: What is Prism? |
| 20:38.24 | RST38h | lcuk: Not when it is running Symbian :) |
| 20:38.59 | BrentDC | The sceenshots look pretty nice if you ask me :) |
| 20:39.02 | lcuk | does the OS prevent you from accessing and altering memory bytes? |
| 20:39.09 | lcuk | yeah BrentDC very slick |
| 20:39.20 | TheFatal | is the gps device in /dev/pgps ? |
| 20:39.33 | Jaffa | RST38h: Mozilla's offline, try-to-fake-a-desktop-app-using-offline-web-apps technology |
| 20:39.38 | lcuk | TheFatal, not sure |
| 20:39.50 | TheFatal | how can i configure mapper then ? |
| 20:39.52 | TheFatal | :S |
| 20:39.54 | BrentDC | And there is no way that is just Web-language stuff (even if it is called WebOS) |
| 20:40.13 | Jaffa | lcuk: That's all well and good, but the tablet's *aren't* at that resolution. Of course, OMAP3'll do wonders on the RX-51 |
| 20:40.25 | lcuk | why shouldnt it be? html/css can be used to give decent layout |
| 20:40.32 | *** join/#maemo sp3001 (n=chatzill@hoasnet-fe21dd00-183.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 20:40.51 | Stslaptop | BrentDC: their CPU microcode is html and javascript, maybe ;> |
| 20:40.54 | lcuk | jaffa, speak for yourself :) liqbase is at any resolution i want, and XV has just added an RGB mode which I assume will do the same |
| 20:40.56 | Jaffa | BrentDC: indeed, most apps probably not. I imagine there's similar stuff though to what Symbian and Maemo have/are getting. Widgets? What did Nokia call them? You could scale that up to full-size apps reasonably well |
| 20:41.01 | Stslaptop | - / instruction set |
| 20:41.07 | RST38h | Jaffa: ah |
| 20:42.19 | BrentDC | Although CSS/Javascript can layout an application, those apps look far too "rich". |
| 20:42.22 | lcuk | as long as the XHTML/CSS renderer can do things quickly you can script all the actions entirely and not know or care whats under it |
| 20:42.25 | RST38h | lcuk: js and css are both memory and cpu intensive |
| 20:42.38 | RST38h | the display update rate will be the smallest of your problems |
| 20:42.51 | lcuk | BrentDC ? look too rich? thats upto the designer |
| 20:43.21 | lcuk | we arent talking about a mega massive super site all in memory at once |
| 20:43.38 | RST38h | BrentDC: It is all fakeable in JS/CSS given some minor and straightforward enhancements like alpha channel support for images |
| 20:43.41 | lcuk | its just a few pages with dynamic stuff, they havent got the res to do much more |
| 20:43.47 | Jaffa | RST38h: and this is an OMAP3 processor, not exactly short of the fast stuff |
| 20:44.02 | *** join/#maemo skibur (n=skibur@adsl-66-143-247-246.dsl.snantx.swbell.net) |
| 20:44.06 | RST38h | Jaffa: JS/CSS can slow down event a 80x86 |
| 20:44.10 | RST38h | even |
| 20:44.15 | wazd | oh, BTW, I've been fooling around with PS on holidays and came up with this http://s53.radikal.ru/i141/0901/13/2356c7c98e4e.png |
| 20:44.25 | lcuk | RST38h, BAD JS/CSS can |
| 20:44.31 | wazd | Is it worth developing?) |
| 20:44.44 | BrentDC | We'll see, I guess. I'd be even more impressed if it was just CSS/JS :) |
| 20:44.48 | RST38h | Jaffa: So, much slower OMAP3 with cheaper and less power hungry memory does not stand a chance |
| 20:44.50 | *** join/#maemo orifice_work (n=aho@67.71.223.35) |
| 20:45.12 | RST38h | lcuk: Well, JS/CSS make writing "bad" scripts really easy |
| 20:45.31 | lcuk | RST38h, come on, you know yourself you can code in a dirty wasteful manner or you can do things carefully and cleanly |
| 20:45.36 | Jaffa | RST38h: Badly written C can slow down an 80x86, your point? |
| 20:45.56 | lcuk | heh |
| 20:46.03 | RST38h | Jaffa: Yes, but JS/CSS is much easier to screw up. Way, way easier |
| 20:46.17 | lcuk | but this is a tiny tiny screen |
| 20:46.25 | lcuk | not much is capable of happening |
| 20:46.34 | RST38h | Of course, "one can write fortran in any language", but some are more than the others :) |
| 20:46.41 | Jaffa | RST38h: I still don't see your point. You're saying noone would ever suggest using JS/CSS for a way of writing simple apps on their device, because it's easy for a crap developer to screw it up? |
| 20:46.44 | doc|home | RST38h: they make writing scripts easier too :) |
| 20:46.45 | wazd | The point is Omap3 will eat a lot less power to render such smooth UI than current CPU |
| 20:46.54 | RST38h | doc: Yep, true |
| 20:47.16 | Jaffa | RST38h: Except, to some extent, Apple, Google, Palm and Nokia are all encouraging that. |
| 20:47.19 | RST38h | Jaffa: My point is that your average js/css app will be more wasteful than your average C/C++ app of the same functionality |
| 20:47.20 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@a81-84-104-189.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 20:47.34 | wazd | you can't do UI if it's eating 100% of CPU time, like apple did |
| 20:47.36 | *** join/#maemo danilocesar (n=danilo@200.184.118.130) |
| 20:47.36 | lcuk | and the same is true for asm apps |
| 20:47.47 | RST38h | Jaffa: They do, they do, but how many serious js/css apps have you seen? iPhone devs plainly refused to write "web apps" |
| 20:48.00 | RST38h | Jaffa: And jailbroke their devices |
| 20:48.15 | Jaffa | RST38h: yes, JS apps are harder to execute but run within a "richer" and "more easy-to-use" environment. |
| 20:48.35 | RST38h | Jaffa: does not matter to a user if it slows down to a crawl |
| 20:48.37 | Jaffa | RST38h: Well, except lots *did* write iPhone web apps, and that wasn't the offline version we're positing here. |
| 20:49.00 | wazd | So, what's with Maemo.org?) |
| 20:49.03 | RST38h | Lots? mmm...maybe a dozen or so, unless I am missing something |
| 20:49.07 | Jaffa | RST38h: Well, duh. I'm still trying to understand your point? |
| 20:49.14 | RST38h | wazd: Nice design. Probably won't be used. |
| 20:49.26 | RST38h | Jaffa: I directly stated my point above. |
| 20:49.45 | *** join/#maemo rangaparmastan (n=ohm@84.78.128.255) |
| 20:49.45 | wazd | Should I make an awful one to be used?) |
| 20:49.48 | Jaffa | That JavaScript apps are slower than an equivalent C app (assuming the absence of intelligent, adaptive JITs). |
| 20:49.52 | Jaffa | Who's arguing with that? |
| 20:50.32 | RST38h | wazd: No, it is just that maemo.org guys seem to be almost done with the new design (judging from their messages) and they won't change it any time soon |
| 20:50.34 | Jaffa | That doesn't mean that some companies aren't trying to make it easier to move Web technologies to desktops/devices to write fully-functional, offline, full-blown applications. |
| 20:50.36 | lcuk | actually, depending on the library cant you breakeven - ie nice fast c/asm based UI lib and scripted app engine |
| 20:51.02 | Jaffa | And that for a notepad-type app, there's no reason that couldn't be done in JavaScript, taking advantage of rich UI and persistence libraries |
| 20:51.07 | lcuk | it was the reason visual basic worked ;) |
| 20:51.10 | RST38h | Jaffa: You are going into some high level sociopoliticallyeconomic conclusions |
| 20:51.17 | RST38h | Jaffa: But the point is much simpler |
| 20:51.36 | RST38h | Jaffa: The point is that in an embedded device, you do not want to slow yourself down with all this glue. |
| 20:51.54 | RST38h | EVEN if it is possible to skate on it somehow, if you know the right moves. |
| 20:52.07 | Jaffa | Who is this "you"? The *makers* of these devices are suggesting using JavaScript. |
| 20:52.40 | Stslaptop | wazd: so how long time in advance did you write your blog posts/designs? if you came up with a new one each day, that's impressive :) |
| 20:52.40 | RST38h | Jaffa: But not using it themselves very activaly, are they? :) |
| 20:52.42 | Jaffa | Is this just an updated version of your "Android sucks because it uses Java, a bytecode-based device will never be successful because you can't write a video player from scratch" argument? Or even the same one. |
| 20:53.08 | RST38h | Jaffa: Let us call it a generalized version |
| 20:53.48 | Jaffa | RST38h: Who knows, we haven't seen how the pre's OS is put together (although it's probably using "Web OS" as marketing and because it's designed to operate always-on, sharing data between services and using cloud-computing resources to manage your data) |
| 20:53.55 | RST38h | Jaffa: But of course, you are free to believe what you wish and a good step in advancing your belief into the masses would be to create a nice lightweight JavaScript environment for NITs |
| 20:54.01 | wazd | Stslaptop: well, 4 of them I had in sketches already. Others were been made each day :) |
| 20:54.19 | lcuk | wazd, what do you do your layouts in? |
| 20:54.24 | RST38h | Jaffa: Something that lets people create JS-based desktop widgets |
| 20:54.30 | wazd | PS) |
| 20:54.37 | RST38h | Jaffa: Without taking too much RAM or CPU of course |
| 20:55.03 | Jaffa | RST38h: What, like Nokia are (supposedly) doing? |
| 20:55.18 | Jaffa | isn't arguing from a position of personal belief, just observation. |
| 20:55.39 | lcuk | RST38h, if you could use your emulib to load and manage the graphical assets but give a nice easy to use scripting (python?) manager would it be a serious amount slower/less efficient than currently? |
| 20:55.39 | wazd | I'm trying to learn Flash to make some "active" mockups |
| 20:55.46 | RST38h | Jaffa: But I am also arguing based on observation really. I am just taking a dimmer, more realistic view of reality |
| 20:56.21 | RST38h | lcuk: Dunno. EMULib is really skin deep and won't be of much use like this |
| 20:56.47 | RST38h | lcuk: If you mean, use hw components emulation from EMULib and write missing hw emulation in Python, then it will be slow, sorry |
| 20:57.07 | lcuk | was just an example, my libliqbase has graphics and sketches and drawing tools and im thinking of putting a python front end on it to allow rapid prototyping/dev |
| 20:57.27 | Jaffa | RST38h: How many apps are in the Android app store compared with downloads.maemo.org? Based on your generalised argument, and your definition of "success", the former number should be lower (perhaps by an order of magnitude or two) |
| 20:57.41 | lcuk | it should be just as fast at drawing but a much lower level of entry |
| 20:57.43 | RST38h | lcuk: That will prbably work, just don't forget about creating actual apps :) |
| 20:58.07 | RST38h | Jaffa: You took two arbitrary and different devices for comparison |
| 20:58.31 | RST38h | Jaffa: please, compare S60 vs Android, WinMobile vs Android, or iPhone vs Android, ok? |
| 20:58.37 | *** join/#maemo Meiz_n810 (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-fee7dc00-167.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 20:58.42 | lcuk | RST38h, of course, im writing the lib so its logical to build from |
| 20:58.55 | *** join/#maemo setanta (n=setanta@200.184.118.130) |
| 20:59.01 | *** join/#maemo mgedmin (n=mg@78.59.255.122) |
| 20:59.02 | lcuk | i wouldnt be doing it otherwise, the python bit will come as a natural extension of the hopefully sane api |
| 20:59.03 | RST38h | Jaffa: also, the number of apps may not be an indication of anything. The number of j2me apps is humongous for example |
| 20:59.15 | RST38h | Jaffa: 99% of them are shite though |
| 20:59.27 | Jaffa | RST38h: What, you mean I *can't* generalise one bytecode-based device against another arbitrary non-bytecode based device? And yet, the other way round is fine? |
| 20:59.46 | lcuk | RST38h, thats perfect though |
| 20:59.50 | RST38h | Jaffa: When you compare, you should compare similar devices and similar marketplaces |
| 20:59.51 | wazd | omg, sprint has already launched flash-ads with Pre |
| 21:00.02 | Jaffa | RST38h: Since when did "success" include quality? Most of the output of the X Factor finalist is shit, but it's still successful. |
| 21:00.05 | RST38h | AdBlock to the rescue :) |
| 21:00.20 | lcuk | heh, adblock the UI :D |
| 21:00.56 | RST38h | Jaffa: Well, that is why you need to do comparisons correctly |
| 21:01.31 | RST38h | Jaffa: You want really similar markets, and you probably need more than two |
| 21:02.07 | Stslaptop | Meiz_n810: can i see your /var/log files from Mer at some point? |
| 21:02.11 | RST38h | And if 99% of android apps are Tetris clones, for example, or social network clients, you probably want to group |
| 21:02.12 | lcuk | RST38h, btw im already porting the liqbase original apps to the new library and can get on with extending soon |
| 21:02.39 | RST38h | lcuk: It may be nice to implement all the apps in pure Python |
| 21:03.17 | RST38h | lcuk: Unless they load for 40 seconds like Canola does of course :) (but Canola is doing some extra checking, according to handful and that takes time) |
| 21:03.22 | lcuk | I might just do that one day, but its not a priority right now |
| 21:03.38 | Jaffa | python-launcher should help with startup time |
| 21:03.45 | RST38h | Jaffa: It does not |
| 21:03.45 | lcuk | and why should a python app take 40 seconds to start? |
| 21:04.03 | lcuk | though granted most apps take a horrid length of time |
| 21:04.06 | wazd | The whole disappointment was the Pandora's UI. OMAP3 and old-skool win95 style, oh my( |
| 21:04.07 | RST38h | Jaffa: Apparently, Canola spends most of its loading time dynamically loading Python modules and checking their versions |
| 21:04.20 | RST38h | Jaffa: python-launcher can't predict that :) |
| 21:04.46 | mgedmin | python has this suboptimal imperative execution model |
| 21:04.47 | RST38h | wazd: Expecting *anything* from Pandora isn't a good idea |
| 21:04.58 | mgedmin | you don't load modules, you execute code that creates classes and functions at runtime |
| 21:05.07 | mgedmin | hence, not a lot of opportunity for caching |
| 21:05.10 | Stslaptop | wazd: heh, 10 bucks they'd be on Mer on pandora like banana flies on a garbage bag in the sun.. :P |
| 21:05.13 | Jaffa | RST38h: I meant for lcuk's apps |
| 21:05.14 | mgedmin | and multiple python processes can't share the code |
| 21:05.42 | RST38h | Jaffa: depends on how they are written I guess...A lot of Python apps start up "instantly" for me, even without py-launcher |
| 21:05.42 | *** join/#maemo b-man (n=b-man@pool-71-124-106-242.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 21:05.46 | Jaffa | wazd: That's just the default Matchbox stuff. And given they can't seem to get a case, who'd've spent time cooking up a whole new Linux mobile UI, which no-one had seen before. |
| 21:05.58 | lcuk | jaffa, depends which way round i decide to do it - make liqbase a standard library, or allow python fragments from within |
| 21:06.15 | Stslaptop | b-man: status? |
| 21:06.19 | mgedmin | hi, lcuk |
| 21:06.28 | RST38h | lcuk: Here is an idea: |
| 21:06.46 | lcuk | hiya marius :) did you have a good xmas and new year? |
| 21:06.50 | RST38h | lcuk: Forget Python for now. Make a REALLY NICE high level C++ lib |
| 21:07.28 | lcuk | no, really nice low level c lib for talking to the screen, an intermediate lib for UI and whatever ontop. if i use C++ i lose flexibility |
| 21:07.32 | RST38h | lcuk: It is actually a difficult design task: you want to design an API so, that 90% of apps can be coded in C++ almost like if it were a scripting language |
| 21:07.45 | *** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@cs181192153.pp.htv.fi) |
| 21:07.52 | b-man | I'm working on getting a fuew minor bugs worked out |
| 21:08.00 | Stslaptop | b-man: alright, like? |
| 21:08.06 | RST38h | lcuk: Just provide alternative C API, not a big deal |
| 21:08.27 | lcuk | why do work twice? just write it in C where im happy and the compiler is happy on device and then its usable everywhere :) |
| 21:08.29 | RST38h | lcuk: The C functions will of course look more cumbersome and take an extra pointer, ut so what |
| 21:08.39 | RST38h | lcuk: It is not doing the work twice really |
| 21:08.56 | lcuk | it is since ive already got a shed load of the code and a workflow all sorted |
| 21:09.08 | lcuk | i have targets |
| 21:09.17 | lcuk | is behind though :S |
| 21:11.08 | RST38h | lcuk: then having a C++ API would be more like putting some paint on an existing fence :) |
| 21:11.13 | *** join/#maemo simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 21:11.46 | lcuk | yeah - a c++ lick of paint on the existing lib will be good |
| 21:11.49 | b-man | the option diolog for selecting the mer partition fails to start in the advanced installer. |
| 21:12.01 | RST38h | wazd: quick question: what website should I use for looking up a phone number in moscow? |
| 21:12.09 | lcuk | but thats not my priority |
| 21:12.25 | r2d2rogers | Stslaptop: I install midori again, and it tried to pop up the h-i-m owhen I hit the address bar |
| 21:12.42 | Stslaptop | r2d2rogers: interesting - but probably not in the forms |
| 21:12.54 | r2d2rogers | I think it's missing some packages, but that's more than I got last time |
| 21:13.09 | Stslaptop | yeah, we actually install hildon-input-method correctly now and boot it :P |
| 21:13.20 | b-man | Stslaptop: sorry for not being verry responsive today, i've ben a little busy :p |
| 21:13.28 | r2d2rogers | it's not getting the keys showing though |
| 21:14.14 | wazd | well, if it's not private phone then yellowpages.ru |
| 21:14.34 | *** join/#maemo gnutonio (n=gnuton@kde/developer/aloisio) |
| 21:14.39 | RST38h | wazd: thanks |
| 21:14.59 | r2d2rogers | Stslaptop: trying again after killing sapwood |
| 21:15.13 | RST38h | wazd: what if it is a private phone? |
| 21:15.24 | b-man | Stslaptop: how is the status on the image? |
| 21:15.25 | r2d2rogers | taht's waht is was, it doesn't pop up without sapwood running |
| 21:15.43 | r2d2rogers | I had run midori from the telnet session |
| 21:16.04 | Stslaptop | b-man: johnx's first boot wizard is getting close to being done, and that'll be v0.6 |
| 21:16.15 | b-man | k |
| 21:16.18 | Stslaptop | we have some issues with osso-xterm and finding a proper wifi applet for Mer |
| 21:16.23 | Stslaptop | since we don't have ICD and friends |
| 21:16.38 | b-man | hmm |
| 21:16.39 | *** join/#maemo JarodTLG (n=chatzill@75-104-158-170.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 21:16.47 | wazd | RST38: well, it's harder, cause all web-accessible Moscow DB's are very old |
| 21:16.49 | *** join/#maemo Grackle (n=Alex@227-230.suscom-maine.net) |
| 21:16.59 | RST38h | wazd: and do not seem to work |
| 21:17.18 | JarodTLG | Hello everyone, I have just experianced a problem with my n810 that i'm not sure of the solution |
| 21:17.19 | Stslaptop | b-man: you used wifi-radar or what before? |
| 21:17.28 | b-man | yes |
| 21:17.34 | Stslaptop | JarodTLG: have you tried turning it off and on? |
| 21:17.41 | *** join/#maemo lubyou (n=lubyou@ip-eyes.fr) |
| 21:17.44 | Stslaptop | ;) |
| 21:17.48 | lcuk | hold down ctrl alt delete |
| 21:17.48 | Stslaptop | b-man: even on Mer? |
| 21:17.56 | wazd | have you tried turning it just on?) |
| 21:17.57 | JarodTLG | the menu is gone, i can click the icon, and it shows up, but theres no applications or anything |
| 21:18.04 | JarodTLG | and yea, i tried rebooting |
| 21:18.33 | lcuk | all menu items gone? or are some there? |
| 21:18.34 | wazd | Have you installed something like Personal Menu? |
| 21:18.37 | JarodTLG | i cloned the os to the memory card, so i can boot off the internal and try to fix it |
| 21:18.46 | b-man | Stslaptop: i have not tryed it in mer yet, but i'm shure it will work |
| 21:19.03 | JarodTLG | nope, didnt install personal menu, everything is gone, no categorys, no icons, just a grey box |
| 21:19.12 | Stslaptop | b-man: feel free to try it :) we had issues with it earlier |
| 21:19.18 | Stslaptop | .. because we have a broken pygtk atm |
| 21:19.19 | JarodTLG | its been ok for a long time off the card, just last night it crapped out on me |
| 21:19.28 | lcuk | JarodTLG, check the contents of "/home/user/.osso/menus/applications.menu" |
| 21:19.34 | b-man | hehe |
| 21:19.46 | qwerty12_N800 | cp /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu /home/user/.osso/menus/ |
| 21:20.15 | lcuk | :O omg i beat qwerty to posting something linuxy :D |
| 21:20.38 | lcuk | (i *only* know that because i needed to parse it to read the menu structures ;) |
| 21:20.53 | qwerty12_N800 | awards lcuk with the linux northerner noobs award :p |
| 21:20.55 | JarodTLG | looks like a bunch of gibberish, not a normal menu or xml type file |
| 21:21.15 | JarodTLG | starts out ^B)q^A(U |
| 21:21.16 | lcuk | its meant to be xml |
| 21:21.59 | JarodTLG | then goes oncover_path^BU^Y/home/user/.canola/conversq^CU^Mdown |
| 21:22.13 | JarodTLG | not xml, or vi doesnt understand xml |
| 21:22.46 | lcuk | to my untrained eye that looks more like old fashioned crosslinked files |
| 21:23.16 | JarodTLG | on a unrelated note, how do you quit vi :) |
| 21:23.20 | lcuk | is anything else dodgy or do you recall an event which started this off |
| 21:23.24 | qwerty12_N800 | :q |
| 21:23.58 | JarodTLG | yea, its no xml file, canola stopped working after a stupid move i made, installed beta10 by accident, which is broken |
| 21:24.15 | JarodTLG | and i had to use the installation cleanup tool to fix it. |
| 21:24.25 | JarodTLG | the menu still worked for a while tho |
| 21:24.47 | JarodTLG | because i checked and rolling back to canola2 beta9 fixed the not playing problem |
| 21:25.59 | *** join/#maemo greentux (n=lemke@BAA2252.baa.pppool.de) |
| 21:26.52 | JarodTLG | if i do like qwerty said and copy /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu overtop of the one in ~/.osso/menus can i put back the apps that i've installed somehow? |
| 21:26.57 | RST38h | Heh, MGTS *charges money* for its digital phonebook |
| 21:27.02 | RST38h | amazing |
| 21:27.59 | qwerty12_N800 | JarodTLG, you could probably do "update-desktop-database" on reboot. But as you don't currently have a menu, you have nothing to lose ;) |
| 21:28.40 | JarodTLG | yea, its worth a shot, i'll cp it over from the internal and boot off the card and see what happens |
| 21:28.45 | *** part/#maemo nikosapi (n=nikosapi@nikosapi.org) |
| 21:28.46 | *** join/#maemo eichi_ (n=eichi@p5B201C5A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:28.51 | JarodTLG | i'm on my pc now, so i'll let you know what it does |
| 21:29.52 | *** join/#maemo gnuton__ (n=gnuton@cs181164097.pp.htv.fi) |
| 21:30.06 | wazd | RST38h: YouTube just banned my video because I had "unlicenced property of Linkin Park" in there |
| 21:30.23 | Stslaptop | heh |
| 21:30.27 | Stslaptop | and you probably had no music? |
| 21:30.28 | wazd | RST38h: World gone mad |
| 21:31.23 | JarodTLG | i have a menu again |
| 21:31.36 | wazd | Stslaptop: Well, I had, and unlicensed for true, but to care about low quality mono youtube video, that the author haven't payed for it - this is really ridiculous |
| 21:31.50 | mgedmin | reminds me of http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/1/2/ |
| 21:34.44 | JarodTLG | ok, update-desktop-database, where should i point it? |
| 21:34.58 | wazd | I wonder if 3/4 of YouTube videos are banned |
| 21:35.15 | wazd | Cause most of them uses "unlicensed" music |
| 21:36.57 | *** join/#maemo punkass (n=user@unaffiliated/punkass) |
| 21:37.37 | *** join/#maemo housetier (n=housetie@unaffiliated/housetier) |
| 21:38.23 | RST38h | wazd: Screw Youtube |
| 21:38.46 | JarodTLG | aha, run as root. its fixed! Thanks a ton for your help everyone |
| 21:39.34 | RST38h | wazd: If you are embedding it anyway, upload to rutube.ru and forget. |
| 21:39.53 | RST38h | let 'em sue *that* |
| 21:40.06 | wazd | RST38h: the worst thing that i'm not( |
| 21:40.31 | lcuk | RST38h, do russians get pissed off if anything they have created gets pirated? |
| 21:40.45 | RST38h | lcuk: They do but much less, they are realistic |
| 21:40.48 | lcuk | ie can i pirate your emulators? |
| 21:40.57 | Stslaptop | RST38h: "gun to your head"? :P |
| 21:41.12 | RST38h | lcuk: You can if 1) you manage to hack them and 2) you do not distribute them further |
| 21:41.30 | lcuk | (tis just an example of course, but the principle remains we are in a creative industry |
| 21:41.46 | wazd | lcuk: you can definitely pirate my images :) |
| 21:41.48 | RST38h | Sts: naaah, although there have been a couple of relatively large and noisy legal outbreaks |
| 21:42.19 | lcuk | wazd :) put them under a CC license and make it official for everyone |
| 21:42.34 | RST38h | Sts: usually not bringing the plaintiff anything significant anyway |
| 21:42.49 | lcuk | ill drop the code as (l)gpl and we will see how far they get along :) |
| 21:42.57 | RST38h | wazd: I wonder if Wiki media project will take your video |
| 21:43.13 | Stslaptop | a collection of CC SA artwork for tablet could really be nice |
| 21:43.16 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at) |
| 21:43.18 | Stslaptop | icons/wallpapers/etc |
| 21:43.25 | lcuk | yeah it would :) |
| 21:43.38 | Stslaptop | cos aesthetics is an area i'm absolute shite in |
| 21:43.39 | RST38h | Sts: Why not look at the existing artwork in Wiki? |
| 21:43.47 | Stslaptop | RST38h: huh? |
| 21:43.49 | RST38h | there are hundreds of icons there |
| 21:43.52 | Stslaptop | or you mean wikipedia |
| 21:43.58 | RST38h | I mean wikipedia of course |
| 21:44.46 | lcuk | wazd, btw, now you have seen a glimmer of my example usage for the icons, do you understand why i was very interested in ensuring they scaled well |
| 21:46.31 | wazd | lcuk: yep, but. Icons are made for special resolutions. |
| 21:47.09 | wazd | They can't be resized properly to other reses |
| 21:47.28 | lcuk | sure they can : simple designs scale well |
| 21:47.54 | *** part/#maemo Xamusk (n=Xamusk@200.150.129.24) |
| 21:48.10 | mgedmin | SVG icons scale up to devices with high resolutions |
| 21:48.19 | mgedmin | not so well to devices with low resolutions where you can actually see the pixels |
| 21:48.22 | mgedmin | those need fine-tuning |
| 21:48.26 | wazd | Minimalistic design is not very eye0catching |
| 21:48.46 | lcuk | but the world exists in multiple scales |
| 21:49.23 | wazd | SVG icons can't use complex effects like shadows for example |
| 21:49.25 | *** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=sporks@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:49.32 | RST38h | Even SVG won't help you if you haeve got tiny details there |
| 21:49.44 | GeneralAntilles | Unfortunately vector images have a rather large performance impact on low-power mobile devices. |
| 21:49.48 | RST38h | wazd: they can, actually, if renderer supports it |
| 21:49.57 | RST38h | General: Unless you cache them |
| 21:49.59 | lcuk | yeah GeneralAntilles my vector sketches dont work |
| 21:50.03 | wazd | I think it will ruin the CPU) |
| 21:50.19 | RST38h | Symbian/S60 caches them, but not very well, at least not on my poor E70 |
| 21:50.35 | mgedmin | was looking for a nice blog post with actual examples demonstrating why SVG isn't the one answer to rule them all |
| 21:50.42 | mgedmin | can't find the link :( |
| 21:50.44 | lcuk | of course its not |
| 21:51.27 | lcuk | never put in svg support to liqbase because then users would have expected mona lisa |
| 21:51.37 | mgedmin | the postscript tiger |
| 21:51.42 | wazd | For now, vector icons are useless for mobile UI's, cause on a mobile device the main factor is CPU load, which affects battery life and responsivity |
| 21:51.42 | lcuk | heh |
| 21:52.13 | mgedmin | was floored when he first saw that one |
| 21:52.20 | lcuk | wazd, i can draw vector graphics faster and in a more battery efficient way than scaling a bitmap |
| 21:52.25 | *** join/#maemo JussiP (n=jpakkane@xdsl-83-145-207-155.nebulazone.fi) |
| 21:52.27 | mgedmin | imagined, at the time, that people created postscript files by typing in the postscript commands by hand |
| 21:52.28 | RST38h | wazd: Ironically, Nokia's S60 uses SVG icons as a standard starting with S60e3 |
| 21:52.42 | RST38h | wazd: So, no, not useless |
| 21:52.55 | mgedmin | speaking of which, google for the obfuscated postscript code contest |
| 21:53.00 | Stslaptop | mgedmin: i have a manual somewhere for postscript.. |
| 21:53.05 | Stslaptop | or at least, in my old room at my dads |
| 21:53.05 | RST38h | mgedmin: The Tiger is a reference image, but I have heard there is playable postscript tetris :) |
| 21:53.09 | lcuk | vector based flash animations work on machines which cannot even update the whole screen |
| 21:54.04 | wazd | RST38h: Well, as I can see they are pretty simple ones |
| 21:54.37 | RST38h | wazd: That is mainly because of the low resolution |
| 21:54.44 | wazd | I wonder how much CPU would it take to render that http://www.ischool.utexas.edu/technology/tutorials/graphics/iphoto5/images/iphoto5.gif |
| 21:54.56 | RST38h | wazd: Still, nokia solves the scaling problem this way |
| 21:55.01 | lcuk | for something that is going to be 1cm square for most of its life why do you need more detail? |
| 21:55.42 | lcuk | wazd, its a 256color gif.. wheres the svg? |
| 21:55.43 | *** part/#maemo jamey (n=jameyhic@38.99.207.90) |
| 21:55.54 | RST38h | lcuk: Maybe for a rare case when you want to render it in 5cm scale when starting your app? :) |
| 21:56.18 | lcuk | yeah, you do the same as flash and liqbase : at lower res you reduce quality :) |
| 21:56.32 | *** join/#maemo dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:56.33 | RST38h | wazd: This image cannot be rendered as an .svg |
| 21:56.35 | lcuk | but you can do that with vector |
| 21:56.44 | lcuk | RST38h, sure it can |
| 21:56.49 | RST38h | wazd: it has got a bitmap inside |
| 21:56.57 | lcuk | would bring a dualcore to its knees though |
| 21:57.17 | lcuk | RST38h, its possible but not practical |
| 21:57.18 | wazd | This pic was just an example of current level of detail in icons |
| 21:57.19 | RST38h | Unless .svg now allows textures |
| 21:57.37 | RST38h | wazd: But you do not really need this level of detail |
| 21:58.00 | RST38h | I, for once, do not need icons this detailed. Lemme see if I can find the SAME icon in SVG. A moment. |
| 21:58.01 | wazd | RST38h: do I really need infinite scaling?) |
| 21:58.16 | lcuk | and anyway - i see that more as a widget :: a live image in the background owuld be better |
| 21:58.17 | RST38h | wazd: Well, you need 3-4 sizes, most of the time |
| 21:58.29 | RST38h | wazd: Doing them by hang is damn cumbersome though |
| 21:58.58 | wazd | RST38h: iPhone, for example, needs 2. Standart and superlarge (for iTunes Store) |
| 21:59.04 | wazd | So basicaly only one |
| 21:59.06 | RST38h | That is iPhone |
| 21:59.16 | RST38h | S60 needs 3 |
| 21:59.24 | RST38h | Maemo needs 3. |
| 21:59.35 | wazd | Quallity of UI affects on how many different icons you need |
| 21:59.43 | RST38h | Windows is ok with 2, but I guess looks better with 4-5 |
| 21:59.45 | wazd | And user cases ofcourse |
| 22:00.05 | RST38h | Not just quality but the number of different visual platforms |
| 22:00.13 | wazd | Maemo will be ok with just 2, touch and stylus |
| 22:00.22 | *** join/#maemo emma (n=emma@unaffiliated/emma) |
| 22:00.25 | RST38h | Same Windows, for example, may operate in 16 fixed colors or 256 colors or truecolor |
| 22:00.51 | RST38h | At different resolutions, from 320x240 to 1280x768 and higher |
| 22:01.05 | wazd | There are som nice tries on desktops |
| 22:01.11 | RST38h | Of course you need scalable icons in such environment |
| 22:01.19 | wazd | Some thought to use 3D icons |
| 22:01.59 | lcuk | if the engine is capabile, why not? |
| 22:02.07 | lcuk | capable even |
| 22:03.15 | wazd | Right now Win and OS X are already using some 3D effects, so I think they can invite Carmack to make an "OS3D engine" for them :) |
| 22:03.56 | lcuk | 3d desktop paradigm doesnt fit for most people |
| 22:04.07 | wazd | not 3d desktop |
| 22:04.16 | wazd | just rendering methods |
| 22:04.26 | lcuk | but using the 3d renderer efficiently for drawing is desirable |
| 22:04.29 | RST38h | There is alrady a Carmackian 3D window manager for Linux |
| 22:04.34 | RST38h | But may I ask something? |
| 22:04.35 | lcuk | they already do that though |
| 22:04.52 | RST38h | What does having 3D icons or 3D workspace actually give you in terms of productivity? |
| 22:04.58 | wazd | RST38h: well, Compiz is more showcase that actual usability) |
| 22:05.11 | RST38h | And if it is mainly eyecandy, then is it worth spending resources on? |
| 22:06.49 | wazd | RST38h: I would imagine some infinite zooming desktop, where you can set the size of the icons you want, so you can make some icon piles :) |
| 22:07.11 | RST38h | Yes, true, in fact one guy at out university worked on this kind of desktop |
| 22:07.23 | wazd | Very intuitive way of arrangement :) |
| 22:07.31 | johnx | errr...have to disagree on compiz not aiding productivity |
| 22:07.43 | *** join/#maemo emma (n=emma@unaffiliated/emma) |
| 22:08.02 | lcuk | wazd :) |
| 22:08.05 | Stslaptop | already up? jesus, you don't sleep much, johnx? :P |
| 22:08.08 | *** join/#maemo MoRpHeUz_ (n=morphbr@189.70.52.80) |
| 22:08.20 | qwerty12_N800 | morning(?) johnx |
| 22:08.29 | johnx | seeing wife off to work, then might catch some more sleep :) |
| 22:08.46 | lcuk | johnx, you havent been to bed yet since you vanished 4 hours ago :P |
| 22:08.57 | johnx | lcuk, have actually :P |
| 22:09.48 | lcuk | ok, have you slept |
| 22:10.07 | wazd | So 3D desktops are good in the right hands :) |
| 22:11.37 | wazd | But not on the mobile devices for now, cause the penalty is too big |
| 22:11.45 | johnx|not-awake | lcuk, I have, actually, for around 3 hours |
| 22:11.55 | Stslaptop | brews johnx a pot of coffee |
| 22:12.06 | lcuk | adds sugar to it |
| 22:12.11 | wazd | brews jonx |
| 22:12.15 | johnx|not-awake | lcuk, Stslaptop, appreciated but I'm already working on that :) |
| 22:12.27 | johnx|not-awake | wazd, O_o :P |
| 22:12.32 | wazd | xD |
| 22:12.58 | wazd | Best way to wake) |
| 22:13.10 | johnx|not-awake | hmmm...the one thing I'd want in a 3D desktop on a handheld is a nice expose-style "wall of live window previews" that I could touch |
| 22:13.23 | wazd | That's 2D |
| 22:13.27 | RST38h | wazd: The weird thing is that I am looking at this shiny 3D MacOSX desktop is all I see is 10+ years old CDE |
| 22:13.45 | lcuk | use the accel to show direct overlay |
| 22:13.48 | RST38h | Ok, the icons are shinier and they jump. Big deal. |
| 22:13.51 | b-man | @johnx; lol, no coffie yet? :) |
| 22:13.59 | johnx|not-awake | wazd, then why is it never done with 2D desktops...and I mean, never |
| 22:14.07 | wazd | RST38h: It's mostly 3D effects there) |
| 22:14.10 | *** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=sporks@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 22:14.15 | wazd | RST38h: 2D* |
| 22:14.20 | RST38h | What is the point in them then? |
| 22:14.40 | wazd | RST38h: eye candy) |
| 22:14.41 | johnx|not-awake | RST38h, to sell computers |
| 22:14.43 | RST38h | And aside from contextual zooming, is there any point in making desktop 3D? (btw, contextual zooming is also 2D) |
| 22:14.49 | RST38h | johnx: And apart from that? |
| 22:15.08 | *** join/#maemo emma (n=emma@unaffiliated/emma) |
| 22:15.36 | johnx|not-awake | RST38h, on desktops I enjoy the 4-desktop view and wobbly windows that stick to screen edges for easier arrangement |
| 22:15.39 | wazd | RSAT38h:If we'll use 3d models for icons, as we discussed before, than it'd be 3D) |
| 22:16.11 | johnx|not-awake | and yes, the wobbly bit does provide feedback as to what it's "attached" to |
| 22:16.36 | wazd | Apple has no other goals than to sell hardware :) |
| 22:16.44 | johnx|not-awake | but with a limited-multitasking, fullscreen window manager, you're right, I don't see much point |
| 22:16.51 | wazd | Everything works for that :) |
| 22:17.06 | lcuk | john, you are obsessed with having your wobbly windows stick to the edges :P |
| 22:17.38 | johnx|not-awake | lcuk, it's good feedback and it helps with organization |
| 22:18.06 | wazd | The bad example of "how UI FX's should not be done" is an iPhone apparently |
| 22:18.14 | lcuk | sticky windows is good in its place, but it interupts where the direct mouse placement lives on the frame you are moving |
| 22:18.31 | johnx|not-awake | lcuk, hence wobbly :P |
| 22:18.44 | wazd | Apple has sacrificed multitasking for jumpling pins |
| 22:18.44 | lcuk | so if you are holding with stylus right in centre of a square and it is pulled or pushed off centre it screws you mind - its simpler with a mouse and less noticable |
| 22:19.24 | wazd | damn, I'm starting to miss the keys :) |
| 22:19.44 | lcuk | apple has sacrificed multitasking because its not required (and also not practical to have the UI opening multiple instances and windows) |
| 22:20.05 | wazd | lcuk: that's what they said to you :) |
| 22:20.11 | lcuk | incidentally, clutter is single instance as well |
| 22:20.31 | qwerty12_N800 | Not required? From who's point of view? |
| 22:20.39 | wazd | lcuk: Who needs radio/stylus/multitasking?) |
| 22:20.43 | lcuk | from the millions of ppl with phones |
| 22:20.50 | qwerty12_N800 | bollocks |
| 22:21.04 | RST38h | wazd: But what are you gonna do with 3D icons? Rotate them ? =) |
| 22:21.04 | johnx|not-awake | lcuk, "not required" and "too hard to do right" aren't the same thing |
| 22:21.08 | wazd | lcuk: you cant chat in ICQ/Jabber and surf the web |
| 22:21.30 | Stslaptop | heh. like when macs didn't have real multitasking.. |
| 22:21.31 | lcuk | :D heh good point entirely johnx |
| 22:21.40 | RST38h | wazd: I mean, icons are basically road signs and road signs, for all their physical reality, are not 3D |
| 22:21.45 | johnx|not-awake | or download something in the background, IIRC ... but that doesn't matter because you can't download files |
| 22:22.27 | *** join/#maemo emma (n=emma@unaffiliated/emma) |
| 22:22.27 | tank-man | can't download files with what? |
| 22:22.28 | RST38h | kinda remembers that Macs also did not have real memory management =) |
| 22:22.32 | lcuk | does the media player carry on with music whilst you play with other apps? |
| 22:22.39 | wazd | iPhone doesn't have multitasking cause it can't do it |
| 22:22.45 | johnx|not-awake | tank-man, iphone? am I wrong? |
| 22:22.53 | wazd | it's UI eats too much CPU |
| 22:23.01 | lcuk | its ui is driven by powervr |
| 22:23.05 | lcuk | the cpu is idle |
| 22:23.07 | lcuk | ish |
| 22:23.33 | wazd | Well, then OS X eaths too much CPU, okay :)) |
| 22:23.48 | lcuk | if it ate too much cpu the battery life would be really poor |
| 22:23.51 | RST38h | iPhone does have multitasking |
| 22:23.51 | johnx|not-awake | wazd, I'm not convinced of that. I bet they were worried about the same kind of things that cause "battery drain" posts on ITT: badly behaved apps |
| 22:23.54 | wazd | There are multitasking software on jailbroken iPhones |
| 22:24.05 | wazd | And it runs like crap |
| 22:24.09 | RST38h | Apple does not allow background apps, but it is NOT the same as not having multitasking |
| 22:24.10 | lcuk | the core system can multitask, it just has no functionality to multitask user apps |
| 22:24.27 | RST38h | it is not really a technical problem but a policy problem |
| 22:24.36 | lcuk | bit of both RST38h |
| 22:24.44 | wazd | RST38h: ofcourse OSX supports and does it sometimes, but we're simplifing :) |
| 22:24.52 | RST38h | lcuk: you can fork() on iPhone |
| 22:24.58 | RST38h | lcuk: so technically it is no problem |
| 22:25.06 | lcuk | but you cant both be drawing to the graphics surface at the same time |
| 22:25.18 | lcuk | so you would need some way to handle that part |
| 22:25.28 | RST38h | lcuk: That is true for many, MANY platform |
| 22:25.33 | RST38h | Starting with Windows :) |
| 22:25.35 | lcuk | on linux we have x11 to handle that for us |
| 22:25.48 | wazd | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeKXksLEYo8 |
| 22:25.57 | wazd | UI demos of Pre, BTW |
| 22:25.58 | RST38h | Ah, lcuk, on most ARM platforms framebuffer is just an area of memory |
| 22:26.08 | lcuk | but this isnt most devices |
| 22:26.12 | lcuk | its the powervr |
| 22:26.17 | RST38h | So "not being able to write at the same time" is mostly hypothetical :) |
| 22:26.24 | lcuk | and the framework for doing it |
| 22:26.50 | RST38h | There ARE cases where you write may interfere with the video DMA |
| 22:27.06 | RST38h | For those you need some API to know where video DMA currently is |
| 22:27.26 | lcuk | you just need a render queue, but thats hypothetical |
| 22:27.32 | lcuk | since we arent apple engineers |
| 22:27.48 | lcuk | wow wazd :) it does look simple enough |
| 22:28.03 | RST38h | You do not need a render queue |
| 22:28.50 | *** join/#maemo rzr (n=RzR@lav35-1-82-236-136-171.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:29.06 | RST38h | You need windows (i.e. x,y,w,h,stride) + locking + you have to promise not to shit outside your window boundaries |
| 22:29.12 | wazd | "It's so simple that the only thing you can see is gorgeous wallpaper". What's the point of seeing the wallpaper?) |
| 22:29.42 | RST38h | wazd: The rest of the UI is a quick iPhone knockoff but the wallpaper is different. That is the point. |
| 22:29.59 | *** join/#maemo emma (n=emma@unaffiliated/emma) |
| 22:30.17 | glass | hehe |
| 22:30.24 | glass | talking of palm 2.0: the turd? |
| 22:30.40 | johnx|not-awake | hey, there's a hardware keyboard. I'll give them benefit of the doubt |
| 22:30.52 | RST38h | would not call it the turd, but it does call to mind a certain mountain giving birth to a mouse... |
| 22:31.15 | RST38h | johnx: This is no longer a distinguishing factor though. |
| 22:31.25 | glass | RST38h: it's the iphone 1.5y after the iphone with no promise of native apps |
| 22:31.34 | RST38h | johnx: If they had e70-style fold out keyboard, I would look twice. |
| 22:31.46 | glass | RST38h: and apparently a sprint only thing too? not a company saver |
| 22:31.51 | johnx|not-awake | RST38h, I know you hated Palm from a development perspective, but I'm a big fan of what they were doing with their UI |
| 22:32.12 | RST38h | does not hate Palm, Palm's UI was pretty nice |
| 22:32.13 | *** join/#maemo emma (n=emma@unaffiliated/emma) |
| 22:32.29 | RST38h | The problem was *the rest* of the OS |
| 22:32.56 | RST38h | If they took the original Palm UI, made it into a library and moved it to Linux backend, I would be the first to applaud |
| 22:33.06 | RST38h | Instead, the knocked off iPhone. Again. |
| 22:34.57 | wazd | Ah! My task swithcer! (almost) |
| 22:35.07 | wazd | Goddamn( |
| 22:35.27 | wazd | "Throw away"(( |
| 22:36.50 | Grackle | there's some lisp stuck in your chat |
| 22:37.07 | b-man | ponders why palm allwase stuck with a 10+ year old UI :p |
| 22:37.33 | *** join/#maemo alecrim (n=alecrim@189.2.128.130) |
| 22:38.18 | wazd | wonders if he can sue Palm with using invented gesture :) |
| 22:40.52 | johnx|not-awake | b-man, because they did it right the first time |
| 22:41.57 | GeneralAntilles | cared for Palm. |
| 22:42.04 | GeneralAntilles | s/cared/never cared/ :P |
| 22:44.36 | johnx|not-awake | GeneralAntilles, weren't in the market for a PDA ten years ago? |
| 22:44.49 | wazd | Damn, I'm really depressed... Site is useless, UI is stolen :( |
| 22:44.55 | Stslaptop | johnx|not-awake: i wonder how difficult it would be to take non-hildon apps, and instead of hildonizing them, full screening them instead? |
| 22:45.00 | GeneralAntilles | Used an M105 for a while |
| 22:45.06 | GeneralAntilles | Friends had a lot of Clies |
| 22:45.23 | GeneralAntilles | It just doesn't compare to the PDA-ness of the Newton |
| 22:45.33 | GeneralAntilles | and it's not the mobile computer that I've always wanted (and got with Maemo). |
| 22:45.57 | qwerty12_N800 | preferred winmo to palm |
| 22:46.09 | qwerty12_N800 | Stslaptop, very easy |
| 22:46.22 | Stslaptop | qwerty12_N800, and pondering what kind of effect it could have |
| 22:46.34 | johnx|not-awake | Stslaptop, we could, but most have a fullscreen option already |
| 22:46.50 | b-man | nods |
| 22:47.25 | Stslaptop | yeah, but i'm thinking in terms of stripping away decorations and just have it fill the screen, and allow one to switch apps back with the home button |
| 22:47.29 | Stslaptop | kinda like how it is with games |
| 22:47.46 | Stslaptop | and bring more apps to the tablets that way |
| 22:47.59 | b-man | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:48.43 | b-man | ponders on how he can improve merinstaller - sorry :p |
| 22:48.50 | Stslaptop | b-man: a quick going over with a spell check always improves things, and trying to find out if other N810 users have the internal/external check reversed, or if Meiz's tablet is just odd |
| 22:49.09 | *** join/#maemo sin18 (n=sin18@pool-71-100-21-253.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 22:50.07 | timeless | looks up at the words 'spell check' |
| 22:50.15 | Stslaptop | spellcheck. |
| 22:50.16 | Stslaptop | :P |
| 22:50.22 | b-man | lol |
| 22:50.31 | Stslaptop | or whatever. |
| 22:50.41 | Stslaptop | 's caffeine level is getting dangerously low. |
| 22:50.43 | timeless | oh, just wondering what you're checking |
| 22:50.49 | timeless | i'm not complaining |
| 22:50.54 | Stslaptop | timeless: what users will see :P |
| 22:51.06 | b-man | i think i need to advertise it a little more so people can test my installer ;) |
| 22:51.34 | Stslaptop | b-man: yeah.. i think the N810 thing needs to be investigated first |
| 22:51.36 | timeless | sorry, i'll brb to ask about a url |
| 22:51.58 | Stslaptop | b-man: so we don't kill more sd cards |
| 22:52.09 | b-man | hehe |
| 22:53.42 | Stslaptop | i think i'll put a poll up on iTT |
| 22:53.50 | b-man | is fusterated, caffeine makes him sleepy :p |
| 22:54.12 | *** join/#maemo fysa (n=j@6532145hfc139.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 22:54.37 | b-man | Stslaptop; yah ;) |
| 22:56.28 | *** join/#maemo LinuxCode (n=Titan@unaffiliated/linuxcode) |
| 22:57.32 | timeless | ok, sorry |
| 22:57.40 | timeless | can someone point me to a url i could read? |
| 23:00.10 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (n=befr0d@190.69.214.175) |
| 23:02.23 | RST38h | Palm stock is way up from the dumpster |
| 23:02.29 | timeless | is still confused |
| 23:02.38 | timeless | could someone give me a url that explains what's going on? :) |
| 23:02.51 | Stslaptop | going on in what area? :P |
| 23:03.00 | timeless | whatever this spell check thing is |
| 23:03.07 | johnx|not-awake | timeless, synopsis: b-man, Stslaptop and I talk about Mer. I and others talk about the new Palm thing from CES |
| 23:03.12 | timeless | what's the feature/thing under discusion |
| 23:03.32 | timeless | ok. i'm pretty sure i'm more interested in mer atm |
| 23:03.42 | timeless | is there some url that actually needs a proof reading pass? |
| 23:03.49 | johnx|not-awake | it's a script :) |
| 23:03.51 | b-man | about what? |
| 23:03.55 | b-man | lol |
| 23:03.57 | b-man | merinstaller |
| 23:04.56 | Stslaptop | http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26094 <- poll on if slot_name lies to us consistently or not |
| 23:05.15 | b-man | cool :) |
| 23:09.37 | Stslaptop | at least we can point to a poll if we change around things if anyone complains we nuked their SD :P |
| 23:11.43 | b-man | hehe |
| 23:15.43 | *** join/#maemo rzr (n=RzR@lav35-1-82-236-136-171.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:18.19 | Stslaptop | rzr: regarding mer on 770, r2d2rogers is the guy to talk to about that |
| 23:18.23 | Stslaptop | since you asked about that earlier |
| 23:18.48 | rzr | ho really ? that's good |
| 23:18.59 | rzr | r2d2rogers: have you tested it ? |
| 23:19.32 | *** join/#maemo tehforum (n=user@80-195-162-226.cable.ubr03.smal.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 23:19.37 | tehforum | Hi |
| 23:19.47 | tehforum | Are there any familar faces |
| 23:19.53 | tehforum | GeneralAntilles |
| 23:19.57 | tehforum | Qwerty12 |
| 23:20.08 | Stslaptop | highlighting people randomly is a bit rude :) |
| 23:20.28 | tehforum | I was checking if xchat worked |
| 23:20.33 | Stslaptop | normally people say hi when they are on and recognize you :) |
| 23:20.34 | GeneralAntilles | XChat works |
| 23:20.34 | Stslaptop | hehe, okay |
| 23:20.44 | tehforum | Yes, thanks. |
| 23:20.58 | tehforum | yeah, this does look better than pidgin |
| 23:21.12 | johnx|not-awake | your first step into a larger world :) |
| 23:21.45 | tehforum | This is my first step into IRC |
| 23:23.53 | GeneralAntilles | chuckles some more at the cellphone people on itT. |
| 23:24.22 | tehforum | ? |
| 23:24.30 | johnx|not-awake | GeneralAntilles, the cellphone people on the open pandora forums are better O_o |
| 23:25.30 | b-man | HI |
| 23:25.51 | tehforum | Hi. |
| 23:26.32 | GeneralAntilles | johnx|not-awake, it's a bizarre mindset to me. |
| 23:28.06 | johnx|not-awake | GeneralAntilles, from a purely aesthetic standpoint I could almost see it working on an n800 with different speaker/mic placement...but the pandora is a laptop-style device |
| 23:28.33 | GeneralAntilles | The whole "IT MUST BE A PHONE OS OR IT WILL DIE!!!!" thing is just weird. |
| 23:29.31 | johnx|not-awake | well, it probably needs a 3G modem to be viable at very least |
| 23:30.16 | GeneralAntilles | Fun stuff: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3519#c27 |
| 23:30.19 | johnx|not-awake | and being what it is, it will be a niche product if it's not also a phone... |
| 23:30.37 | RST38h | PHONE PHONE WE WANT PHONE |
| 23:31.08 | wazd | WHO SAID PHONE?! |
| 23:31.23 | GeneralAntilles | johnx|not-awake, well, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. |
| 23:31.24 | johnx|not-awake | GeneralAntilles, he's somewhat right... |
| 23:31.28 | RST38h | General: I have promised to myself to abstain from commenting on 3519 |
| 23:32.10 | wazd | I'm slill thinking if it's convenient to use Pandora's touchscreen |
| 23:32.22 | RST38h | General: But off the record, let us just say that Quim is directly telling us all to shut up and stop pestering him with our "contributions" |
| 23:32.47 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, pfft. |
| 23:32.50 | johnx|not-awake | GeneralAntilles, other people disagree about whether it's ok for Nokia to release a tablet that doesn't immediately take over the world. Some people have some kind of vested interest in the things they like being popular. some kind of validation of their choice or something |
| 23:32.52 | StsN800 | i can sortof relate to the problem of that tablets need to be diverse from day 1.. if someone wants some ubuntu app in maemo, it should be easy as eating cake |
| 23:32.56 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, try not to be so ridiculously reactionary. |
| 23:33.14 | RST38h | Go work on Mer instead and let Nokia develop its commercial product professionally |
| 23:33.33 | RST38h | General: I'm already trying my best, really. |
| 23:33.55 | GeneralAntilles | and, apparently, failing if that's what you think he actually "means".\ |
| 23:34.32 | RST38h | General: Well, there are several possible interpretations but they are all somewhere around what I have just said =( |
| 23:34.49 | GeneralAntilles | If you must try to pin it somebody, pin it on Nokia, not Quim. |
| 23:35.00 | GeneralAntilles | Because if anybody's fighting our cause in Nokia, it's him. |
| 23:35.06 | RST38h | General: Not blaming the messenger really |
| 23:35.38 | johnx|not-awake | GeneralAntilles, yeah, but keep in mind he's arguing Nokia's case to us. nothing to blame him for of course, just something to keep in mind |
| 23:35.46 | GeneralAntilles | [6:32pm] <RST38h> General: But off the record, let us just say that Quim is directly telling us all to shut up and stop pestering him with our "contributions" |
| 23:36.03 | GeneralAntilles | johnx|not-awake, it's not a one-way street. |
| 23:36.11 | RST38h | General: Well, the comment *is* from Quim. But he is obviously representing Nokia |
| 23:36.37 | GeneralAntilles | Either way, the reality is a lot less nefarious and malicious than you seem to be making it out to be. |
| 23:36.43 | johnx|not-awake | GeneralAntilles, of course not. just have to keep in mind Nokia has their own interests at heart, no ours, so we have to watch out for ourselves |
| 23:37.40 | GeneralAntilles | johnx|not-awake, watching out for our own interests doesn't involve seeing malice in every Nokia's every action. |
| 23:37.42 | RST38h | General: Nothing malicious here, just a statement of the fact that outside contributions to core system components are not gonna happen |
| 23:37.59 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, that's BS. |
| 23:38.10 | GeneralAntilles | Two patches aren't going to be shipped for a deprecated platform. |
| 23:38.42 | GeneralAntilles | Which is another thing entirely from "no patches will be accepted" |
| 23:38.44 | RST38h | General: The Fremantle will get deprecated in 4-6 months since its release |
| 23:38.45 | johnx|not-awake | GeneralAntilles, with the current development model of Nokia, what we have in our hands is always "deprecated" |
| 23:38.49 | GeneralAntilles | Patches already HAVE been accepted. |
| 23:38.57 | RST38h | General: Which ones? |
| 23:39.11 | GeneralAntilles | Most recently, the series of patches to h-a-m. |
| 23:39.21 | RST38h | App manager? |
| 23:39.23 | johnx|not-awake | the categories ones? |
| 23:39.30 | RST38h | That is not a core system component |
| 23:39.41 | GeneralAntilles | The package management isn't a platform component? |
| 23:39.48 | GeneralAntilles | Bugzilla's layout would seem to disagree with you. |
| 23:40.07 | GeneralAntilles | johnx|not-awake, that's why Nokia is working on changing their workflow. |
| 23:40.10 | RST38h | h-a-m is a UI wrapper for apt-get |
| 23:40.19 | johnx|not-awake | GeneralAntilles, I'll believe it when I see it. not before. |
| 23:40.21 | RST38h | It is not a core system component |
| 23:40.28 | GeneralAntilles | throws up his hands. |
| 23:40.34 | johnx|not-awake | They ran out of "benefit of the doubt" credit with me |
| 23:40.37 | GeneralAntilles | Bleh |
| 23:40.38 | RST38h | Core system components are kernel, drivers, crucial daemons, x11 |
| 23:40.41 | GeneralAntilles | Suit yourselves |
| 23:41.00 | RST38h | already said more than he was going to, sorry |
| 23:41.23 | StsN800 | kernel? igor suggested linux-omap which is fair :P |
| 23:44.17 | StsN800 | coffee worked? |
| 23:44.30 | johnx | yeah, will stay up and hack |
| 23:44.53 | RST38h | all right, 2:44, time to sleep |
| 23:45.04 | johnx | 'night RST38h |
| 23:45.08 | RST38h | g'night |
| 23:45.18 | tehforum | g'day |
| 23:45.37 | b-man | see ya RST38h |
| 23:45.47 | johnx | ok, palm pre is kind of impressing me |
| 23:45.54 | wazd | I have 2:28 somehow) |
| 23:46.15 | StsN800 | wazd, in the twilight timezone |
| 23:46.34 | b-man | lol |
| 23:48.34 | b-man | trys looking in engadget to see why people are excited about palm |
| 23:49.00 | johnx | b-man, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6l0birqeig&feature=channel |
| 23:49.50 | b-man | goes eats dinner |
| 23:52.47 | wazd | I wonder if all those modern OS'es are resolution-independent |
| 23:54.51 | tehforum | the maemo wiki is very interesting |
| 23:54.54 | johnx | wazd, os x on the desktop is getting there. I know nothing about iphone. android is pretty close to resolution independent |
| 23:58.34 | GeneralAntilles | wazd, it's supposedly on the roadmap for Maemo. |
| 23:59.31 | johnx | wonder how they plan to do that ... |
