IRC log for #maemo on 20090107

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00:36.51GeneralAntillesQuim keeps talking about the Community Edition as the way forward, but I wonder when we'll actually see support from Nokia. :\
00:48.00*** topic/#maemo by GeneralAntilles -> Sprint meeting January 7th @ 20:00 UTC in #maemo-meeting | http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog
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01:26.00ThatOneGuydoes anyone know how to fix 'make: *** /lib/modules/2.6.18-6-686/build: no such file or directory. Stop.' ?
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01:36.14ThatOneGuy?
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03:02.22ScreaminIkeHaving problems pairing (using?) My n810 with a bluetooth keyboard
03:03.01ScreaminIkeIt will not pair, now, bbut that wasn't the start of my troubles....
03:03.17ScreaminIkeKbd: rocketfish
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03:04.21ScreaminIkeBasically, it has been reading the windows/apple key as pressed, repeatedly, even when it is not
03:04.37ScreaminIkeThis is making pairing impossible
03:04.50ScreaminIkeSuggestions?
03:05.35tank-manis the key pressed down?
03:05.41tank-manspilled coke?
03:05.50ScreaminIkeNo coke....
03:05.58ScreaminIkeNo keypressing
03:06.26ScreaminIkeIt has frozen once or twicw in my car......
03:06.44ScreaminIkeBut it has functioned fine....
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03:07.30ScreaminIkeFux
03:08.01ScreaminIkeIt may be going back to bestbuy
03:08.12ScreaminIkeGod, i love their warranty
03:12.18*** part/#maemo ScreaminIke (n=user@64.178.97.69.dynamic.dejazzd.com)
03:12.19robinkargh I missed lardman again :(
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03:57.35ThatOneGuydoes anyone know how to fix 'make: *** /lib/modules/2.6.18-6-686/build: no such file or directory. Stop.' ?
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04:50.14MaceN800heh
04:50.17MaceN800i'm watching hackrs
04:50.19MaceN800hackers
04:50.35MaceN800classic
04:54.03Vulcaniswatch hackers
04:54.06Vulcanison an n770
04:54.10VulcanisVNCing to an n800
04:54.44VulcanisAlso, first Hackers?
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05:17.04MiconFrinkanyone here a crosstool-ng expert?
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05:38.41MiconFrinkanyone can help with cross compile advise?
05:47.45MaceN800hm
05:48.00MiconFrinkguess not
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06:03.06qwerty12_N800Sorry, just woken up and fucking inpuut method sent return to topic bar
06:04.44MiconFrink1heh
06:05.12MiconFrink1qwerty12_N800: you got crosstool experience?
06:05.45qwerty12_N800MiconFrink1, a bit
06:05.53Khertanhuhu here temp is -14°C
06:05.59Khertandriving will be funny
06:06.25Khertanspecially with my wheel which look like more and more slick
06:07.22MiconFrink1I'm trying to put together a system that has to cross compile on both arm and x86-64
06:07.47MiconFrink1I'm wanting to do a completely scrited autobuild
06:07.56MiconFrink1tried crosstool but I'm getting stuck
06:08.13MiconFrink1I've not really messed with crosscompiles before
06:08.49MiconFrink1Khertan: that sounds like *beautiful weather* -)
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08:09.54Stskeepsmorning
08:11.07samdsup
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08:13.34RST38hehlo
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08:15.48samdi love my n810
08:16.19Stskeepshehe
08:16.21RST38hin what pose?
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08:19.49samdxD
08:21.45Stskeepsi'm having a hard time convincing my body it's morning and i should actually wake up :P
08:23.02samdlol, what time u have there?
08:23.07Stskeeps9:22am
08:23.21samd2:23am from mexico
08:23.24samdwhere are you?
08:23.29samdeurope?
08:23.44RST38his being attacked by rabid S90 users
08:24.14RST38hSuggested the first two to just dump their 7710s and buy NITs, but these zombies keep coming
08:24.25Stskeepshehe
08:24.38samdlol
08:25.17samdwhere u guys from?
08:25.20samdeurope?
08:25.29Stskeeps.dk, but it doesnt matter
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08:26.02samd.dk?
08:26.20hachihmmm, my attempt at a maemo build space isn't working
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08:28.22pupnik_good morning #maemo
08:31.17hachihttp://maemo.org/maemo_training_material/maemo4.x/html/maemo_Platform_Development/index.html
08:31.21hachithis document
08:31.28hachidoes anyone know if I can download the examples somewhere?
08:31.50hachithe majority of it is example text
08:35.20cars__good morning, pupnik_
08:36.34MaceN800blah
08:36.45Stskeepsmorn MaceN800
08:36.54MaceN800how are things going sts
08:37.01Stskeepswaking up
08:37.15MaceN800saturday when my son leaves to stay with his mother... i'm going to start working on gettin android and mer on my n800
08:37.25MaceN800how is mer coming along?
08:37.40Stskeepsdecently
08:37.47MaceN800it is maemo right?
08:37.55Stskeepsyeah, hildon like desktop
08:37.58*** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@44.84-49-128.nextgentel.com)
08:38.04MaceN800so it's not actually hildon?
08:38.21MaceN800define hildon like :)
08:38.36MaceN800are there other enviroments for it yet?
08:39.04Stskeepsit is hildon-desktop components, hildon theme plankton, but currently lacks applications in the base image beyond screenshot taker, advanced backlight, load applet
08:39.13Stskeeps.. cos we didn't compile them just yet
08:39.19solmumahamorning
08:39.32Stskeepshttp://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer0.5/ <- pics from a bit of apt-getting
08:40.32RST38hHow long until it is going to reach official Maemo in functionality
08:40.33RST38h?
08:40.44MaceN800i see
08:40.53MaceN800you use that box i made sts?
08:41.06StskeepsMaceN800: not yet, got builder up and running sanely so
08:41.21StskeepsRST38h: depends on what functionality is defined as :P
08:41.22MaceN800ah ok. just let me know if you have problems with it
08:41.39MaceN800it should be pretty stable.. and i'll work on getting it to move a little quicker
08:41.52MaceN800if it doesn't i'll build you a dedicated box
08:42.10MaceN800so mer is pretty immature then huh?
08:42.31Stskeepson the contrary really
08:42.46Stskeepssdk works, it builds many maemo apps already
08:43.04Stskeepsand they run without issue in mer
08:43.15MaceN800i see
08:43.22MaceN800are you going to integrate cups into mer?
08:43.38MaceN800that would be awesome
08:43.38Stskeepsif anyone wanted to apt-get it, it probably would be possible
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08:44.08MaceN800hm.. some day i should try getting the cross compiling working and see about getting a base kde going
08:44.32Stskeepsyou can probably just apt-get it in mer :P
08:44.33MaceN800pb made a huge tarball ver with a million programs
08:44.37MaceN800heh
08:44.41MaceN800that would be awesome
08:44.56MaceN800pb made a working kde but ..
08:45.05MaceN800it has a lot of unnecessary things in the install
08:45.16MaceN800would have been better to start with a base and allow users to choose which apps to install
08:45.30Stskeepswe have basically seperated hildon into being a X session like any other
08:45.59MaceN800i see
08:46.13MaceN800what about the user layout?
08:46.22Stskeepshm?
08:46.27MaceN800does it come with only user by default like maemo?
08:46.32MaceN800or does it use a normal user scheme?
08:46.59Stskeepswe currently have 'user' but johnx is doing the first boot wizard atm
08:47.09MaceN800no shit huh?
08:47.10Stskeepswhere it asks for username, real name, timezone, etc
08:47.11MaceN800wow that's awesome
08:47.13hachiare the maemo training materials available in some other format? I'm seeing hints that you can 'generate' it or something
08:47.31MaceN800do you have to flash it with a win app?
08:47.51StskeepsMaceN800: well it's a tar.gz right now, but we plan to be able to flash jffs2 images
08:48.01Stskeepsqwerty12 did that last night without problems, soo
08:48.07MaceN800wow
08:48.22MaceN800i'll start playing with it soon
08:48.29MaceN800on saturday i'll start
08:48.44MaceN800can i apt get dev tools?
08:48.45MaceN800heh
08:48.45StskeepsRST38h: problem functionality is really the icd, icons, dsp blobs
08:48.49StskeepsMaceN800: yeah
08:48.51MaceN800to build on the n800
08:49.02Stskeepsyou'd want to get scratchbox mer sdk instead though
08:49.14RST38hSts: Can't these be taken from Maemo?
08:49.22MaceN800i see
08:49.34MaceN800figured it would be interesting to build on the n800 itself
08:49.35StskeepsRST38h: yeah, i tried some of those things yesterday
08:49.58MaceN800might go slow as shit but i'm patient and wouldn't need to cross compile
08:49.59MaceN800heh
08:50.00StskeepsRST38h: but that requires some degree of procedure with nokia about being able to redistribute :)
08:50.07hachianyone know of dbus examples that aren't in html format?
08:50.11Stskeeps<PROTECTED>
08:50.30RST38hSts: Package them separately and distribute them as "non-free-nokia-binaries"
08:50.32hachiI'd love to try example code to see what it does
08:51.02StskeepsRST38h: yeah, except for chicken-and-egg problem, its kinda difficult to grab those binaries without icd, from user friendly point of view :P
08:51.32Stskeepswe'll see
08:51.36MaceN800no offense.. but they should open it up anyways if they are going to ditch the hardware soon
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08:52.00MaceN800android is a very good portable OS
08:52.44MaceN800G1 has better hardware than n8x0 and if they stick with hildon in maemo 5 they are going
08:52.52MaceN800to lose :)
08:53.02StskeepsMaceN800: i have pretty good hope for the new hildon though
08:53.24MaceN800i hope so.. it seems rather dated compared to using my G1
08:53.37MaceN800in a way it kind of remidns me of win 3.11 heh
08:53.51MaceN800isn't the new maemo going to use qt?
08:53.54Stskeepsand they're definately sticking with hildon, nothing wrong with the technology
08:54.03Stskeepsit's going to support it
08:54.05MaceN800hildon seems lacking
08:54.16MaceN800it is not as pretty as android
08:54.16hachishould I be using some other documentation source? I'm finding an awful lot of choices and I don't know if they're right
08:54.25StskeepsMaceN800: it's a matter of theming, heh
08:54.27hachior wrong, or not good starting points or anything
08:54.47MaceN800Stskeeps, i dunno about that. symbian has tons of themes and it doesn't come close as looking as nice as android
08:55.02MaceN800i'm not saying that hildon is bad.. but if they stick with it.. they will fall behind
08:55.35Stskeeps*shrug* :)
08:55.41MaceN800haha
08:56.01MaceN800i have high hopes for the n800 android
08:56.04Stskeepsi'm not inclined to agree or disagree. i disagree with some things in android and i disagree with some things in hildon
08:56.39hachiis there another channel for programming discussion?
08:56.42StskeepsMaceN800: yeah, except they're hurting as much as other open source things on tablets, in the fact they won't be able to get stuff like sound, etc going
08:56.55Stskeepshachi: most of your questions are very googable :P
08:57.04hachiI started with google
08:57.09MaceN800Stskeeps, yeah i noticed
08:57.13MaceN800no bluetooth either
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08:57.24hachimy first question, where can I download the code on this page in another format
08:57.34hachiisn't very googlable, since google sent me to that page in the first place
08:57.34MaceN800then again.. android bt stack sucks on a g1
08:57.39Stskeepsit's in the SDK probably, hachi
08:57.51MaceN800right now android only supports an earpiece
08:57.51Stskeepsapt-gettable
08:57.53hachiit is? I don't see this documented at all
08:59.17MaceN800sts.. does mer start hildon?
08:59.18StskeepsMaceN800: and i'm all for the versality of the devices, which means maemo/mer/android etc should be able to coexist. i should be able to run a QT application if i want to and i have space
08:59.22Stskeepsyeah, initially
08:59.30hachiapt-cache search doesn't show it in my build environment
08:59.40MaceN800Stskeeps, true
08:59.55MaceN800know.. now that i think about it
09:00.05MaceN800isn't android just a linux kernel ?
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09:00.13MaceN800what do they use for the UI? X?
09:00.27MaceN800or do they use something new?
09:00.27Stskeepsandroid is kinda specialized linux kernel, framebuffer UI, and a "java" like VM, dalvik
09:00.50AstralStmeh, how specialized? :P
09:01.00MaceN800fb UI?
09:01.05MaceN800with accel 3D?
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09:01.08AstralStframebuffer UI and not directfb? Google wasted a lot of time apparently
09:01.42AstralStwhy not? acceleration can be done there, by rendering to texture or such
09:01.46hachi`apt-cache search dbus`, `apt-cache search training`, `apt-cache search example`
09:01.50StskeepsMaceN800: no accel 3d, think it's software rendering really
09:02.09hachiall prefixed with sb2 of course
09:02.10MaceN800Stskeeps, i don't knjow. it looks hw
09:02.14Stskeepshachi: it's a linux machine deep down, you can get any kind of information non-specific to that
09:02.19MaceN800looks as good as my n95
09:02.37StskeepsMaceN800: yeah, but they don't have 3d accel, especially not when even maemo doesn't have it
09:02.42hachiwhat?
09:02.52hachiyes, I'm sure I can dig into how it works
09:02.58Stskeepshachi: as in, if you want dbus examples, you can look everywhere for them
09:03.00hachiI'm looking for example dbus code though
09:03.14hachiI found some
09:03.15hachihttp://maemo.org/maemo_training_material/maemo4.x/html/maemo_Platform_Development/APPENDIX_D_Source_code_for_the_GLibDBus_synchronous_example.html#glibdbussynccommondefsh
09:03.15Stskeepsdoesn't matter if it's for ubuntu or for maemo
09:03.18hachihere
09:03.25hachiI just want them not in 'html'
09:03.29hachiperhaps as source code files
09:03.41hachiyou said they were apt-gettable
09:04.36Stskeepshttp://mirror.engineeringlinux.org/maemo4.x_training_v1.3/files/maemo_Platform_Development/
09:04.49Stskeepsyes, but i'm not exactly an authority am i?
09:04.50hachiI don't even see that link anywhere
09:04.55Stskeeps(and i found that by googling for glib-dbus-sync)
09:04.58hachihow did oyu find that?
09:05.05Stskeepsyou could -probably- just as well have copy-and-pasted
09:05.12hachiI tried to copy and paste
09:05.16MaceN800CPU: The MSM7201A is a dual-core CPU/GPU from Qualcomm and contains many built in features including 3G and a GPU capable of up to 4 million triangles/sec. It has hardware acceleration for Java,[10] but this does not accelerate execution of Android applications, as they are targeted to the Dalvik VM, not the Java VM.
09:05.23hachiit blasted my xterm buffer or something
09:05.38MaceN8004 Mt/s
09:05.45hachiI'm puzzling over why I have to use a 3rd party search engine to search for things on the same site
09:05.45StskeepsMaceN800: fair enough, i was speaking on n800 and android
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09:05.49hachibut thank you
09:05.56MaceN800oh
09:05.58MaceN800heh
09:06.05MaceN800my bad
09:06.18MaceN800i was talking about the g1
09:06.23Stskeepshachi: http://maemo.org/maemo_training_material/maemo4.x/
09:06.25Stskeepslook in bottom
09:06.37Stskeepsbut that's 404, lovely
09:07.02Stskeepshachi: open a bug for broken documentation
09:07.08Stskeepsisn't supposed  to be like that
09:07.26MaceN800west wing cracks me up
09:07.41Stskeepsmm, good series
09:08.21MaceN800yeah, good balance of comedy and drama
09:09.00MaceN800'aren't the people going to think i'm soft on turkeys'
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09:10.21StskeepsMaceN800: besides that, nokia probably balanced speed & power consumption over flashiness, cos there was no access to 3d accel
09:10.24Stskeepsthere's now though
09:10.36Stskeeps(in rx-51)
09:11.13Stskeepsand android reinvented API so they're not backwards compatible :P
09:11.49Stskeepswhich makes things easier, but also cuts off a lot of existing good apps
09:11.54Stskeeps<PROTECTED>
09:12.34hachiyow
09:12.37hachireport a bug
09:12.52hachiand it gets sent to 4 people and one mailing list?
09:13.09Stskeepshachi: yeah, the people responsible for this area
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09:13.16Stskeepsas in, the one you just reported it for
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09:15.51hachi/opt/maemo/tools/arm-2005q3/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-as: unrecognized option `-Qy'
09:16.10hachiI don't even know how to parse that error... make didn't give me a commandline it was executing
09:16.19hachiand the previous command is just 'cc'
09:16.27hachino -Qy option I can see anywhere
09:16.33AstralStyour toolchain is broken
09:16.35Stskeepswhat SDK version are you using?
09:16.35AstralSt:)
09:16.48hachiI dunno, one that I built yesterday according to...
09:16.59hachihttp://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/install-debian.html
09:17.00hachithat doc
09:17.20Stskeepsreport a bug, but normal people use scratchbox 1 until sb2 is stable :P
09:17.31hachiwhy does the doc say to use sb2!
09:17.38hachi*headdesk*
09:17.42Stskeepsit doesn't
09:17.43hachihow do I know which docs to follow?
09:17.57hachi<PROTECTED>
09:18.02hachisb2
09:18.49Stskeepshttp://maemo.org/maemo_training_material/maemo4.x/html/maemo_Getting_Started/index.html specifically talks of sb
09:18.52Stskeeps1
09:19.11hachiI used google to get that doc yesterday
09:19.31hachiI'm not sure how to find docs that aren't too new or too old without asking
09:20.01Stskeepsmaemo.org -> development -> training
09:20.39hachiso
09:20.43hachiI built a machine for this
09:20.54hachishould I just blow it away and start again?
09:21.13hachior do you think (I can't hold you to this) that it will coexist okay
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09:24.14Stskeepsshould cooexist fine :P
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10:23.54hachiblah
10:23.57hachiran out of disk space
10:24.09hachithe installer script told me to delete /scratchbox
10:24.26hachiand then dpkg throws a fit because I deleted /scratchbox the next time I run it
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11:11.07alteregoIs there an X-Fade around anywhere?
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11:25.06X-Fadealterego: Ehm yep ;)
11:25.23alteregoCan you get me access to extras? :)
11:25.34alteregoI've been told on several occasions to bug you :P
11:25.53X-Fadealterego: https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/index.php?target=invitation_request
11:26.01alteregoAlready done that ..
11:26.03X-FadeYou can request access there..
11:26.08X-FadeHmm, when? :)
11:26.08alteregoHaven't had an answer.
11:26.13X-FadeI must have missed that..
11:26.15alteregoBoxing day
11:26.56X-Fadeheh, well I shouldn't have missed that..
11:26.58X-FadeLet's see.
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11:36.09alteregoX-Fade: tswindell
11:36.09X-FadeAh yeah, the ruby guy.
11:36.09alterego:P
11:36.09alterego"The ruby guy" ^_^
11:36.09X-FadeYou should receive an invitation in your mail shortly..
11:36.09X-FadeAs in now..
11:36.09alterego:)
11:36.09alteregowoo! :)
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11:36.09alteregoSo I just follow those instructions and I should be all setup? Can't really do it right now as I'm at work but will get on it this evening.
11:36.09johnxoh man, we're back to the days of "computer in a keyboard:" http://www.gottabemobile.com/2009/01/07/eeepc-keyboard/
11:36.10X-Fadealterego: Yes, you should now be able to setup things yourself.
11:36.11alteregojohnx: that's great .. As it's the most likely piece of equipment I'll spill liquid on ..
11:36.11alteregoX-Fade: thank you very much :)
11:36.11X-Fadealterego: https://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras
11:36.11X-FadeThat will tell you everything, I hope..
11:36.11alteregoYeah, I've got all the docs bookmarkd :)
11:36.11johnxalterego, yeah, I was starting to get used to the "computer in a monitor." those actually make sense to me, but I'm sure asus will sell a million
11:36.11alteregoWell, if not I'll make sure I update the pages ;)
11:36.11alteregoHeh
11:36.11Stskeepsjohnx: pymaemo is interesting on mer.
11:36.11alteregoStskeeps: define "interesting" please :)
11:36.11johnxStskeeps, looking at lots of thing in ubuntu that would be interesting. I'm not making much forward progress with the timezone select, sadly
11:36.11johnxgood point: is this "good" interesting or "special" interesting
11:36.11Stskeeps"special"
11:36.11Stskeepsfor work im regenerating pygtk atm :P
11:37.51alteregoX-Fade: just a comment on the invitation email. Maybe instead of using my username it should use my real name stored in the profile :)
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11:38.17Stskeepsits just cos pymaemo is quite out of touch with how packages are named in lets say ubuntu, so
11:40.30X-Fadealterego: Yeah, that is an option. Although I think that is what gforge does by default.
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11:40.30alteregoAh, okay.
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11:49.57Meiz_n810Stskeeps: What's url for Merecho theme?
11:50.19Stskeepssec
11:50.28Stskeepshttps://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/4996/MerEcho.deb
11:50.34johnxwoo!
11:50.52Stskeepswoo?
11:51.03johnxMerEcho theme
11:51.09Stskeepsah, yeah, old actually
11:51.14Stskeepshe's finishing something up this week
11:51.31johnxah, might as well wait then
11:52.20johnx... integrating zenity into other people's bash scripts is somewhat painful and also...holy gods there are more timezones in the US than I knew about
11:53.07alteregoHeh
11:53.50johnxhttp://pastebin.ca/1302673
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11:54.53Stskeepsyou start to understand why nokia has the world map thing? ;)
11:55.24johnxI'm still not convinced a two step list will be much slower really, it's just punctuation that's tripping me up :/
11:56.30johnxcountries are allowed to have apostrophes in them, a horrible mistake that needs to be rectified post-haste
11:56.34Stskeepshehe
12:00.19johnxmaemo's first boot wizard-thing is closed, right?
12:01.02Stskeepsi'm not 100% on that
12:01.05aquatixis geeking out with LCARS Okuda
12:01.19Stskeepsjohnx: i -think- so :P
12:01.25johnxaquatix, try not to go blind. those colors are damaging
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12:01.59johnxStskeeps, seems like the kind of thing that would be...I don't even know the package name or executable name though...
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12:06.01aquatixjohnx: it already took its toll: i actually like it
12:06.27Stskeepsaquatix is going insane. :P
12:06.30johnxaquatix, ah, the okuda theme is the blue-ish colors, right? not the bright painful off-yellow?
12:06.31aquatixit's nice and clean
12:06.36aquatixjohnx: yep
12:06.44aquatixa lot better than those older ones imho
12:06.55aquatixthis is the new one from september last year
12:07.54Meiz_n810Stskeeps: theme wants to write something it home dir...
12:08.12Meiz_n810now it tries to find /home/user
12:08.36Meiz_n810i have only /home/roope
12:08.45StskeepsMeiz_n810: well then
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12:13.10soul9hi
12:13.48soul9just a quick question, is it true that the n810 can't connect to the GSM network?
12:13.57soul9this is what i read in a few reviews
12:14.36Stskeepsit can connect through a bluetooth cellphone. Next nokia device will have 3g/HSDPA
12:15.29soul9ok, so it's true
12:15.34soul9it's not really a GSM phone
12:15.48johnxexactly. It's a internet tablet, not a phone
12:15.54soul9okay
12:16.00soul9sorry to bother
12:16.07johnxno worries :)
12:16.14johnxIt's closer to MID or UMPC than a phone anyways
12:16.21soul9ueah
12:16.42soul9still, i need a phone, so if it does everything but that, that's not really that good... :-(
12:16.50Stskeepssure it is. :)
12:16.53soul9darn, that's a bummer
12:16.59Stskeepshardly uses his phone these days
12:17.03soul9thank god they refuzed my payment :-D
12:17.11Stskeepsexcept for bluetooth tethering
12:17.20johnxyeah, take this opportunity to do a little more reasearch :)
12:17.40soul9hehe
12:18.00soul9believe me i did the research, i just wouldn't have dreamt it wouldn't have a SIM place
12:18.10Stskeepsit doesn't, but next device will
12:18.11soul9well, /me off the the openmoko boutique :-D
12:18.28Stskeepsand i wouldn't touch a openmoko personally
12:18.35johnxsoul9, check out the new android phones getting announced at CES too :)
12:18.51soul9Stskeeps: why's that?
12:19.02Stskeepssoul9: actually tried one while i was in dublin
12:19.04aquatixlikes the n810 a lot better than the openmoko
12:19.07johnxthe software isn't quite there yet...
12:19.12soul9yeah, i know
12:19.16Stskeepssoul9: it's slow, and software is quite unstable
12:19.17soul9_but_ it's a phone
12:19.18aquatixgranted, i didn't use the openmoko personally
12:19.25soul9slow?
12:19.28aquatixbut i tried and read enough stories
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12:19.31soul9Stskeeps: when did you try it?
12:19.39Stskeepssoul9: a couple of months ago
12:19.47soul9hmm
12:20.02soul9god, so there is nothing like the iphon currently lol
12:20.14soul9great, now what :-(
12:20.27soul9well, anywho, i do ned a phone, might as well get a freerunner.
12:20.34Stskeepsjust get a cheap 3g bluetooth phone and an internet tablet
12:20.37soul9qtopia is kinda stable i thing
12:20.39Stskeepsor wait for the rx-51 to come out
12:20.55soul9yeah, that's gonna cost a great deal of money though
12:20.57Stskeeps(which still isn't a phone, .. we think)
12:21.12Stskeepsyeah, but on the other hand you get a machine that can be hacked to bits :)
12:21.31Stskeepsno need for unlock, jailbreak, etc
12:21.32johnxor get an unlocked HTC G1
12:21.47soul9does that have windows mobile? :-D
12:21.58soul9htc's tend to use windows
12:22.03soul9and it's not open eithre
12:22.10Stskeepsandroid, when "unlocked" :P
12:22.23Stskeeps+open
12:22.29soul9yeah
12:22.48johnxthe G1 is one of the Android phones
12:22.49soul9god darn it, i was so into the n810
12:23.03johnxI still say N800/N810 + cheap 3G phone
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12:23.21Stskeepsyeah, i wouldn't want to put the tablet to my ear anyway
12:23.23johnxthat way you can keep the phone stable and reliable and hack on the tablet all you want
12:23.23soul9i don't have enough oney for that
12:23.31soul9i just have enough for the n810
12:23.38Stskeepssoul9: got an existing phone with data plan?
12:23.41johnxwhat price would you pay for the N810?
12:23.42soul9no
12:23.47soul9i don't have a phone
12:23.59soul9otherwise i wouldn't complain about the n810 not being gsm enabled
12:24.04Stskeepsgot wimax in your town? :P
12:24.10soul9heheh
12:24.18RST38hsamsung u100
12:24.18johnxor get a cheap phone *first* then get a tablet after saving some money
12:24.25soul9heh
12:24.27soul9yeah
12:24.31RST38h7mm thick
12:25.18johnxbut at this point a tablet is probably just as much of a phone as a freerunner is
12:25.49soul9hahaha
12:26.00Stskeepssoul9: i wish johnx was kidding..
12:26.01johnxanyways, N800+3G phone is probably close to N810 alone
12:26.03soul9yeah, i hear the moko can put calls only from the cmdline for now
12:26.27RST38hhehehe
12:26.29johnxand a "two device" system works well for a lot of reasons
12:26.48johnxcommandline isn't that bad unless you don't have a keyboard...oh wait
12:26.55soul9heheh
12:26.56Stskeepsyou can always go for the strategy of buying phone + tablet, start being a developer, get famous, and get developer rebate for rx-51
12:26.59Stskeeps;)
12:27.05soul9:-D
12:27.13johnxthat's my plan :)
12:27.53johnxthough this looks like a neat solution too: http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/06/hands-on-with-novatels-mifi-3g-hotspot/
12:27.59johnxwonder how much it will cost...
12:28.11Stskeepsi thought about knitting it into my jacket
12:28.11Stskeeps:P
12:28.15RST38hone can treat n810+phone s a pocket version of the desk phone
12:28.49johnxStskeeps, you need more pockets...
12:29.00RST38hyou have got the phone and the handset
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12:29.21Stskeepsdid anyone figure out how to use nokia n800 as a phone headset yet?
12:29.29Stskeeps(not sure why anyone would)
12:30.01RST38hwhy would you
12:30.22johnxah, making it act like a BT headset?
12:30.25Stslaptopyeah
12:30.31Stslaptopcos i often run around with my headset on my n800 for music purposes anyway
12:30.38Stslaptopand i would be happy having my phone just be a dongle
12:31.07soul9that's pretty easy
12:31.16soul9if it uses the bluez linux bluetooth stack
12:31.25aquatixsoul9: the n810 is a lot more polished and works beautifully with my bt-enabled phone
12:31.47johnxsoul9, sometimes things in embedded linux are ... different
12:31.49soul9yeah, i really aim for the 810
12:32.05soul9sometimes, things on proprietary platforms are....different
12:32.44johnxso to respond: no it's not as easy as you think it is
12:32.59soul9yeah, since the hw isn't open :-D
12:33.06soul9*but* at least it works
12:33.11soul9unlike the freerunner :-D
12:33.29Stslaptopsoul9: you did see internettablettalk.com/forums ?
12:33.30johnx*sigh* no it's not really related to hte hw not being "open"
12:33.32Stslaptopin your research
12:34.01soul9johnx: okay, i admint i dunno
12:34.06soul9admit*
12:34.09soul9just saying..
12:34.29soul9Stslaptop: nope
12:34.34soul9checking now
12:34.41Stskeepsyou should try to browse through it
12:34.48Stskeepsand see what amazing things people do with these devices
12:34.57soul9yeah, i know, i can imagine
12:35.32soul9i'm a developper too, you know, i've been following the moko's development since the project was announced
12:36.01soul9and just when it's released and out, and i have enough € to purchase, i go and but a proprietary thing
12:36.11soul9s/but/buy
12:36.20johnxwhich proprietary thing?
12:36.21soul9anyways, thanks for the pointers
12:36.24soul9n810
12:36.26Stslaptopheh, it's a 80/20 rule for nokia tablets
12:36.37Stslaptop80% open source, 20% closed
12:36.46johnxsoul9, but your order didn't go through, right?
12:36.48Stslaptopand the closed bits you can mostly get rid of
12:36.55soul9the hardware is 100% closed
12:36.58Stslaptopeh
12:37.01soul9johnx: heh, yeah
12:37.02aquatixsoul9: i share your feeling, but still i like the n810 better
12:37.04Stslaptopyou can flash any OS on it you want, soul9
12:37.10Stslaptop(.. if it's linux)
12:37.11johnxsoul9, no. it's not
12:37.18soul9aquatix: actually, for now me too
12:37.21soul9johnx: oh?
12:38.07johnxsoul9, there's a close source firmware for the wifi and bt (just like on the desktop), and some closed battery charging software...but that's about it
12:38.28*** join/#maemo bilboed-tp (n=bilboed@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net)
12:38.49Stslaptopsoul9: we have android, gentoo, debian, ubuntu on tablet as well :P
12:38.50soul9oh, nice
12:38.50aquatixthat's about the same as with the freerunner
12:38.56soul9okay
12:39.00soul9yes
12:39.06Stslaptopand Nokia is actively involved with the community
12:39.09soul9yeah, then the hw is as open as on the freerunner
12:39.19soul9okay, that's good to know too :-DS
12:39.22Stslaptopme and johnx and others are even working for supporting the next OS version on N8x0/770s
12:39.24johnxsoul9, the situation has changed. Nokia released an open source wifi driver recently and peopler are working on it
12:39.34soul9great, i'm not going to feel bad when i have my n810 in my pocket
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12:39.44soul9i have an old sony ericcson i guess i could use
12:39.45aquatixStslaptop: and just fyi, that rocks :)
12:39.50soul9what a piece of sh*t tho
12:39.57aquatixStslaptop: thought i'd share some kudos ;)
12:40.00Stslaptopif it has bluetooth and gprs, you're good to go
12:40.10Stslaptop(or edge)
12:40.13Stslaptopor even 3g
12:40.15soul9yeah, it does have bluetooth and gprs
12:40.21aquatixloves his SE m600i - nokia n810 combo
12:40.23Stslaptopthen it's the perfect n810 companion
12:40.25soul9don't think it can do data transfer through bt tho
12:40.34Stslaptophas SE k610i - nokia n800
12:40.37johnxah, sad. maybe someone has a hack for it
12:40.38aquatixsoul9: flash a new firmware on it?
12:40.44soul9err
12:40.49soul9well, i dunno
12:40.56aquatixsome world version
12:40.57soul9i don't think i'd use gsm internet tho
12:41.13soul9there's enough open wifi hotspots around to ba allright
12:41.18soul9s/ba/be
12:41.22johnxif it's not even edge...then yeah, might not be worth it
12:41.32Stslaptopexcept when you're in the polish mountains and you forgot to download iodine..
12:41.44soul9well, /me off to lunch, thanks for the info guys, and see y'all around
12:41.52soul9Stslaptop: hahahah, yeah
12:42.03johnxsoul9, yeah, read up on itt :)
12:42.16Stslaptopthere's posts all the way back from 2005 or something :P
12:42.17soul9then again, in the polish mountains you'd prolly need a satellite phone
12:42.19Stslaptopso plenty of stuff
12:42.23soul9will do
12:42.25Stslaptopsoul9: nah, wifi exists :P
12:42.34soul9:-D
12:42.38soul9satellite wifi? :-P
12:42.50johnxStskeeps, heh, my SE W51S decided to lose signal last time I went hiking. wouldn't even do the GPS thing :/
12:43.13soul9my se w810i is cr*p
12:43.22soul9the series has a design problem with the battery
12:43.27soul9so the phone turns off all the time
12:43.31Stslaptopyeah, got same problem
12:43.36Stslaptopon my k610i
12:43.39soul9heh
12:43.40johnxRST38h, hey, HP mini 1000 from $330. looks like my guess on price was high :)
12:43.46soul9se suxxor, then, i guess heh
12:44.03aquatixStslaptop: what's iodine again?
12:44.06johnxW51S works great :)
12:44.11Stslaptopaquatix: DNS tunneling
12:44.15aquatixah right
12:44.23lcukshivers
12:44.44lcukafternoon folks of the world
12:44.52aquatixhey lcuk
12:45.01johnxlcuk, did you see CES coverage? looks like convertible tablet netbooks are the new thing :)
12:45.11aquatixis happy; sending mail with claws-mail works for him again
12:45.27aquatixsomehow that libgnutls26 started working after a reboot
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12:45.35aquatixjohnx: the asus t91?
12:45.37Khertan_at_workHello !
12:45.41aquatixhey Khertan_at_work
12:46.01Stskeepssoul9: fair bit of warning, tablets are about as addictive as cocaine
12:46.01Stskeeps:P
12:46.04johnxaquatix, and the other asus thing. plus the there's kojinsha and fujitsu
12:46.23aquatixjohnx: i really like the looks of that asus htpc-keyboard-thing
12:46.29Khertan_at_workdoes sd card have problem on low temperature ?
12:46.42aquatixKhertan_at_work: define `low temperature' :)
12:46.45StskeepsKhertan_at_work: did your SD slot start getting wet? :P
12:46.48soul9hehehe
12:46.57aquatixKhertan_at_work: is it frozen stuck? ;)
12:46.58johnxKhertan, it shouldn't. should work fine until it's too cold for your battery to work :P
12:47.02soul9Stskeeps: i bet, i know linux and foss is allready a lot for me :-D
12:47.03Khertan_at_worki ve just lost all my data contained in it ... and specially source code not saved
12:47.12alteregoAh, lunch time.
12:47.15Khertan_at_worktemp was -19°C
12:47.19Stskeepsick
12:47.43Khertan_at_workbut internal chip say it was internally in the n810 12°C
12:47.51johnxaquatix, it's certainly a neat idea. wireless HDMI sounds very interesting
12:47.56aquatixKhertan_at_work: did you let it get used to higher temps already?
12:47.59aquatixjohnx: yep
12:48.06aquatixjohnx: really curious to the specs now :)
12:48.54johnxI'd prefer a beagle-based device I think in a nice solid case w/ a nice light bluetooth keyboard
12:49.25Khertan_at_work... snifff ... i ve lost all my work since 3 weeks ... :(
12:49.33alteregoIf it had more connectivity I'd be more inclined.
12:49.42StskeepsKhertan_at_work: which is why i learnt to back up :P
12:49.50alteregoKhertan_at_work: O_O
12:50.00johnxKhertan, tried some type of FS recovery?
12:50.01Khertan_at_workstskeeps ... yep but don't make backup on an sdcard ...
12:50.13Khertan_at_workbackup is corrupt
12:50.51Khertan_at_workand the online backup have been erased by the corrupted one before i notice that it was corrupted
12:51.18alteregoMy backups are stored on three different machines in varying locations and archived on external hard disk drives and DVD's.
12:51.38Khertan_at_workthe dvd one is 3 weeks ago ... :(
12:51.51alteregoScht. Unlucky :(
12:51.58lcukjohnx, ive been thinking that way for a while now :)
12:52.13Stskeepsalterego: raidz on main server, raidz on backup server in different building, with very important files copied to 2-3 different locations
12:52.16Stskeeps:P
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12:52.23johnxlcuk, I have since I got my second zaurus :)
12:53.09lardmanwonders how long one battery bar will last playing mp3s
12:53.17alteregoStskeeps: sounds similar to my setup. With out the optical storage :P
12:53.18johnx's backup system involves a shell on a friend's machine in another country
12:53.27lcuki still think carrying aorund even a netbook is impractical for what i see most things, but for in house its perfect
12:53.29alteregoHeh
12:53.45*** join/#maemo Hirvinen_ (i=pahirvin@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi)
12:54.02lcukis ashamed to say he hasnt had offsite backup for a while now
12:54.06johnxlcuk, too bad you missed out on the zaurus: http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a267/Legodude522/3deba471.jpg
12:54.09alteregoBackup mirroring is essential as far as I'm concerned and keeping an archive on a local storage medium like CD's and my external HDD's is also a must. Just incase I'm without network.
12:54.27alteregoEek, qtopia! -_-
12:54.30alterego>_<
12:54.33alteregoO_-
12:54.35lcukjohnx, didnt missout entirely, i just couldnt afford one
12:54.35alterego>_<
12:54.40Khertan_at_workdo you some good online storage that work with linux ?
12:54.47johnxalterego, it's ok, it can't hurt you. it's dead
12:55.09johnxKhertan, I've been playing with box.net and fuse boxfs
12:55.11lcukgit allows subscription/user based access doesnt it
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12:55.24alteregoKhertan_at_work: there are loads of places that offer ftp upload etc, personally I'd go for sftp/scp they usually charge something like $5 a month for 5-10G storage.
12:55.30lcukie i can use garage but only allow a subset of users initially
12:55.53johnxlcuk, you mean restricted read access?
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12:56.01lcukalterego, i just post all my data to irc
12:56.01Stskeepslcuk: the specifics on git on garage isnt that clear yet :P
12:56.03Stskeeps(sadly)
12:56.03lcukyeah johnx
12:56.10alteregolcuk: hah :)
12:56.12lardmanlcuk: screens were too small imho
12:56.17Khertan_at_work5.70 EUro by months ... box.net isn't cheap !
12:56.27lcukbefore release whilst the api ischanging its not a grerat thing to get tied up supporting people playing with intermediate versions
12:56.43Stskeepsyou can probably always do some kind of Amazon S3 stuff too
12:56.44alteregoKhertan_at_work: it's cheaper than the time it's going to take you to get your data up-to-scratch O_O
12:56.44lcuklardman, could say the same about 810
12:56.49lardmanI do :)
12:56.58lardmanbut it's not too bad
12:57.05lardmanlarger would be better though
12:57.14StskeepsKhertan_at_work: 1gb for free though
12:57.16lcukthe 810 is perfect as carry along, but i do also like the 12inch pinboard at home
12:57.29lcukwould make a perfect mega rss reader ;)
12:57.38alteregoHeh,
12:57.45alteregoI'm contemplating buying a projector.
12:57.46lardmanI could live with an inch larger diagonal screen
12:57.53johnxlcuk, then don't support people. post a warning "subject to change" and then tell people as such. you've got to be cruel to be kind
12:58.02Khertan_at_workStskeeps: i need arround 5Gb
12:58.18lcukalterego, ive got an x41 tabletpc, its pen based but giving me lots of ideas :) i waited a while to get my big daddy machine  pleased i have it now
12:58.22lardmanperhaps just the screen completely covers the front (well except for a little hole for the camera(
12:58.45alterego"big daddy machine"? Is it a desktop workstation?
12:58.47lcuklardman, makes it hard to hold - you would get odd characters
12:58.51johnxKhertan_at_work, huh...wonder if they canceled my free account ...
12:58.57lardmanah that's true
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12:59.20lcukalterego, its my only large format linux machine :: i have windows here and it works nicely with mouse, but i wanted a big tablet to test liqbase on it
12:59.28lardmanbring back Psion-5 style folding + kb ;)
12:59.31alteregoHeh
12:59.40johnxKhertan_at_work, or get 5 accounts? :D
12:59.41lcuktouchscreen+linux+liqbase == awesome :)
12:59.41alteregolardman: the 5 was awesome.
12:59.48alteregoI could touch type on that puppy ..
13:00.47alteregoWhich reminds me, I'm supposed to be refurbing a friends 5MX
13:00.54lcukok, my multitouch - i think ive got a PRACTICAL usage case for it that doesnt involve crappy misclicks:: if the OSK had shift keys in the corner that you press with thumb to activate you can hold it down and press the second letter nice and easily like a real keyboard
13:01.39lcuk(sorry for random shifting, it popped back into head after pondering it dropping off last night)
13:01.41Khertan_at_worklcul : http://www.archos.com/products/imt/archos_7/index.html?country=fr&lang=fr
13:01.45Khertan_at_worklcuk : http://www.archos.com/products/imt/archos_7/index.html?country=fr&lang=fr
13:01.51*** join/#maemo eton_ (n=eton@ppp-58-8-7-205.revip2.asianet.co.th)
13:02.36lcukkhertan, i cant read that - its french \@/   plus im at work and vnc isnt good, what am i looking at apart from the archos 7 which is pretty
13:02.37Stskeepshm, pandora delayed again?
13:02.38lardmanlooks cool, but no kb and not hackable to install your own firmware
13:02.46lardmanStskeeps: how so?
13:02.51Stskeepslardman: just reading up on iTT :P
13:02.56Khertan_at_workit s a 7" device running linux :)
13:03.00lcuki almost got an archos but didnt want to have to hack it to get going
13:03.08alteregoI'm a bit pissed off at Nokia/Symbians idea of open sourcing symbian.
13:03.10StskeepsKhertan_at_work: yeah, but it's also completely locked down and spams you with advertisements to buy stuff :P
13:03.10Khertan_at_workthe important thing is resume in this sentence :)
13:03.11lcukKhertan, ive got 12inches now
13:03.19lcukwaves it around
13:03.23alteregoIf you give us a stupid amount of money, you can take a peek at the source O_O
13:03.25Stskeepsalterego: get source for a fee? that's open source :P
13:03.37alteregoNot realy.
13:03.41Stskeepsyou can do that with GPL too.
13:03.50lcukthey added their software UI ontop of linux
13:03.55alteregoReally?
13:04.03alteregohides his ruby-maemo source behind paypay.
13:04.05Khertan_at_workyep
13:04.08lcuki believe the UI is closed
13:04.09*** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@vpn2770.extern.uni-tuebingen.de)
13:04.19alterego~paypal
13:04.20infobot[paypal] at http://www.paypalsucks.com and http://www.paypal.com
13:04.26alteregoHeh ..
13:04.29lcukits the tivo model :) or something
13:04.30alteregoThat's not what I meant.
13:04.35lardmanthe bootloader/flasher is too afaik,. so you can't install unsigned images. Something like that
13:05.18lcukgive us the damned nice hardware at a price thats reasonable and we will fill it with good software
13:05.56Stskeepsalterego: its allowed to charge a nominal fee :P
13:06.02lcukwants omap3 :'(
13:06.11alteregolcuk: patience ;)
13:06.24lcukStskeeps, you can have the source to libliqbase for $9999999999999999999999 but only cos its not released yet
13:06.28alteregoI'm seriously considering getting a beagle board though, to use as my DVR.
13:06.47lcuki dont wanna mess with hardware any more
13:06.58*** join/#maemo flavioribeiro (n=avaty@189.71.5.77)
13:08.28lcukanyway, bbl
13:08.43*** join/#maemo StsN800 (n=user@84.238.94.136)
13:09.38aquatixnowadays only has time for things that Just Work(tm) :/
13:09.49aquatixlike maemo and my ubuntu laptop :)
13:10.59johnxalterego, yeah, thinking about a beagle for video playback and a thecus n2100 for storage / mythtv backend
13:11.44alteregojohnx: cool, I plan on hooking it up via DVI to my HDTV and also make it stream over the network. So I can watch it on all my connected devices (like tablet) :)
13:12.55aquatixhm, a beagle boar is quite nice for doing that indeed
13:13.14aquatix*board
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13:24.33andrewfblackMorning
13:24.34*** join/#maemo andre___ (n=andre@g224236137.adsl.alicedsl.de)
13:26.52johnxmornin' andrewfblack
13:27.03aquatixgood afternoon andrewfblack :)
13:27.09*** join/#maemo danilocesar (n=danilo@200.184.118.130)
13:28.13andrewfblackHave you guys seen the video of the Pandora OS onscreen keyboard is so small even the devolper can't type on it lol
13:28.33johnxandrewfblack, yeah, that's standard matchbox keyboard
13:28.44johnxit was designed for a 240x320 display I think
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13:29.15*** join/#maemo emma (n=emma@unaffiliated/emma)
13:29.24andrewfblackI still can't beleave people paided for those things to be shipped in june and now 6 months later no device
13:29.45johnxthere were some delays...it really was a rough process
13:29.57johnxBTW, people paid in late september, not june
13:30.08johnxwaits patiently for his pandora :)
13:30.22lardmanis not so sure
13:30.36soul9err, the n810 doesn't have an accelerometer, right?
13:30.43lardmanright
13:30.46andrewfblackahh well I thought first release was supose to be in june
13:31.00lardmanI think it was :)
13:31.09johnxfirst pandora release was supposed to be like june 2007 under a different name :)
13:31.11lardman- supposed to be that is
13:31.20johnxlike I said, rough process :)
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13:32.09andrewfblackplus I wouldn't put it past a small company like that to make up a fake release date just to keep people interested
13:32.27andrewfblacknot saying they did just saying I wouldn't be surprised
13:32.49lardmanyeah, that was my thought
13:32.59johnxandrewfblack, yeah, I actually doubt it in this case. I've been following things pretty closely for quite a while
13:33.29lardmanin that case they just weren't realistic in their predictions
13:33.34johnxit really is the case that 2-3 core people are trying to design and produce a handheld gadget and it's been pretty rough from a design, production and financing perspective
13:34.11johnxlardman, and that's something they admit to, still there was little way for them to predict some of the problems
13:36.10*** join/#maemo vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)
13:36.31lardmanthe LCD one is a red herring though
13:37.06johnxlardman, they never said that it would delay them, just that it might
13:37.32Khertan_at_workis still looking for an online storage solution ....
13:37.48lardmanwell the rest of the delays are due to design/manuf issues, which should imo have been factored in
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13:38.07johnxlardman, how do you "factor it in" when you've never done it before?
13:38.14lardmanor the release dates should have been publicised with a big warning that these are if nothing goes wrong, etc
13:38.35johnxthe release dates were always "subject to change"
13:38.44Khertan_at_workjohnx: delay = (int)rand * rand + 10%
13:38.57lardmanI'd have thought the companies with whom they deal would have some idea of how long it takes to get a board process up to scratch, etc
13:39.07johnxKhertan_at_work, exactly my point
13:39.28andrewfblackwell having wrong release dates is ok if you don't take people money money should not be taken until everything is finished and you are just waiting to have factory build parts
13:39.48johnxandrewfblack, did you preorder?
13:39.54andrewfblackNo
13:40.12johnxandrewfblack, then you're worrying about people who knew that going into things
13:40.29andrewfblackWell I'm not worried just talking
13:41.01johnxyeah, I'm just saying the pandora devs never said "we have a firm release date." the answer was always "If you're unsure, wait for the second batch."
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13:41.25johnxlardman, not much incentive for the companies they worked with to be realistic when $$$ is on the line for them
13:41.31andrewfblackNew Topic You know what i hate about designing themes trying to keep up with 200+ layers in one photoshop file
13:42.08Khertan_at_worksomeone know lifedrive.com
13:42.36Khertan_at_work?
13:42.39johnxKhertan_at_work, looks like a spam site to me
13:42.40lardmanjohnx: I know, and it's obviously a pretty difficult thing to do, but I just wish they'd handled their information passing better really
13:43.00johnxlardman, agreed. they're doing it better now
13:43.12StsN800holy crap. i had forgotten how i look without beard
13:43.36johnxStsN800, I know the feeling
13:43.51*** join/#maemo wms (n=wms___@198.146.5.4)
13:44.20johnxlardman, I think if when they tell "the whole story" after the first units start shipping we'll find out there were a lot more close calls and potential problems behind the scenes than they ever let on
13:44.35Khertan_at_workjonhx : it s a online storage company
13:44.50Khertan_at_workjonhx : it s a online storage service
13:44.51Khertan_at_work:)
13:44.57lardmanjohnx: perhaps so, but it would be nice to know if they have your money :)
13:45.02johnxKhertan, lifedrive.com is a parked domain
13:45.39Khertan_at_workah oups ... sorry wrong url
13:45.43Khertan_at_worklivedrive.com :)
13:45.51johnxlardman, they were likely worried about provoking a full scale panic, and I can't really blame them. Also, it's funny how the people who actually put up their money aren't as worried as the people watching :)
13:45.51andrewfblackBTW I found out what was killing my resources on the maemobox.org server someone who had an account was running like a spam/ad site on it
13:46.23lardmanjohnx: yeah definitely the panic thing, I put up money, am not worried, just disappointed
13:46.46andrewfblackThere was a guy on itT who put his money in then when they gave it back they gave it less becuase of bank fees and exchange rate he is worried
13:46.46lardmannot worried as I have the money back and have not been asked to repay yet
13:46.46johnxlardman, ah, I never remember what you decided in the end :)
13:47.03johnxre-order emails are coming :) I already repaid
13:47.10lardmanI'm in the UK so no problems with exchange rates
13:47.29johnxandrewfblack, and the re-order price is the same as what you got back
13:47.29Khertan_at_workwhat is maemobox.net ?
13:47.38lardmanjohnx: yeah, that's the only issue, I'm not so sure it's the best bet anymore
13:47.52andrewfblackKhertan_at_work Never head of that site but i don't think the unlimited part will last past beta
13:48.17Khertan_at_workandrewfblack: yep ... i think too
13:48.28Khertan_at_workbut i looking for something reliable ...
13:48.36Khertan_at_workit can be not free ...
13:48.47Khertan_at_workbut not expensive too :)
13:48.58johnxlardman, I guess we're in a different situation. you want to work on omap3 specific hardware and I'm happy proto-typing on zaurus and n800 while I wait
13:49.00Khertan_at_worki found box.net really too expensive
13:49.05andrewfblackKhertan_at_work it was a site i ran that gave people free web storage for maemo related items, but due to over usage by some people its now limited to select projects I choose easy debian being one i have hosted for a long time now.
13:49.41Khertan_at_workandrewfblack: great choice :)
13:50.33lardmanjohnx: yep, and I also wonder what else will be round the corner that I could better spend my money on
13:50.34*** join/#maemo skibur (n=skibur@adsl-66-143-247-246.dsl.snantx.swbell.net)
13:51.16johnxlardman, in my case the pandora has features that I care about that probably won't show up in whatever thing nokia releases next
13:51.32lardmanjohnx: the gaming stuff?
13:51.45lardmanthat's of no interest to me whatsoever I must admit
13:51.49johnxlardman, the full power host usb port and 8 hours of battery life
13:52.05johnx8 hours of 100% CPU battery life that is
13:52.33lardmanah, well those would be benefits and useful, but not make or break items
13:52.53johnxI plan to bring my own 3G modem, so the host port is a must
13:53.35lardmanI'd prefer to wait for the n900 for that usage case, use something built in
13:53.47*** join/#maemo birunko (n=birunko@200.184.118.130)
13:53.54johnxI have doubts about what provider will be supported in the US
13:54.44andrewfblackshould be able to support several providers
13:54.47johnx3G in the US is so FUBAR that every single provider uses different spectrum
13:55.13lardmanah, well that's more of an issue, though I'd expect Nokia to do a decent job really
13:55.23johnxandrewfblack, few HSPA devices support att and t-mo's 3G spectrum
13:56.10*** join/#maemo mk8 (n=torello@ip-212-138.sn1.eutelia.it)
13:58.36johnxand the answer would be that no nokia phone support 3G on att and t-mo in the US
13:58.47johnxnot exactly great precedent ...
13:59.50lardmanyeah, fair enough
14:00.39johnxprice was another concern, as was shipping date. I am disappointed it didn't make it out before christmas...but then again I don't really blame someone for it
14:03.02lardman1.5hr on one bar, now the dongs are coming
14:03.05*** join/#maemo Meiz_n810 (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-fee7dc00-167.dhcp.inet.fi)
14:03.16*** join/#maemo flavioribeiro (n=avaty@189.71.5.77)
14:03.31johnxthe n8x0 battery applet tells horrible lies :P
14:03.37lardmanbetter than the prediction anyway :)
14:03.45lardmanof <1hr
14:03.47RST38hbad or good kind?
14:04.00Khertan_at_workhum ... does their is tool to fix this stupid fat fs ?
14:04.01lardmanbad dongs, low battery
14:04.08Meiz_n810MerEcho theme does not look very brilliant... :(
14:04.24Meiz_n810lack of transparent and icon theme
14:04.33johnxKhertan_at_work, look for forensics software or possibly "undelete"
14:04.39StskeepsMeiz_n810: scrshot kthx
14:05.00Meiz_n810Stskeeps: I can't open any apps..
14:05.06Stskeepsah
14:05.08Stskeepswell then
14:05.17Stskeepsjust guess where the icons were before :P
14:05.30Meiz_n810?
14:05.48*** join/#maemo crashanddie (i=c336e713@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1848cf65def70e56)
14:05.51Meiz_n810you mean copying icon's from maemo?
14:06.42Stskeepswell that's a possibility too :P but the actual buttons would be where the icons are missing i guess
14:06.48Stskeepslike, to click
14:07.37Meiz_n810they aren't
14:07.42Stskeepsodd, k
14:07.46Stskeepsthanks for trying
14:08.07Meiz_n810i'll modify .Xsession to take scrhot :P
14:08.39andrewfblackMeiz_n810 what you mean lack of Transparent and icon theme?
14:08.50lardmanhopes for usb charging for the n900
14:08.59lardmanas his n810 goes flat
14:09.12crashanddieany word on the n900?
14:09.16X-Fadelardman: I hope they also provide a high power solution.
14:09.18StskeepsMeiz_n810: andrewfblack made the theme so point him in directions of whats not working :)
14:09.29Stskeepsbbl bus
14:09.39Meiz_n810andrewfblack task-navigator and statusbar can not be transparent in Mer yet
14:09.40andrewfblackMeiz_n810 what version of MerEcho are you using?
14:10.09*** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@cs181192153.pp.htv.fi)
14:10.10andrewfblackMeiz_n810 ok wasn't told that before I can fix that
14:10.17Meiz_n810the garage one.. Sts gave me a link
14:10.30Meiz_n810but i'll take scrshot now..
14:11.25lardmanX-Fade: well I guess standard chargers will fit too
14:11.28Khertan_at_workhope for sd running at -16 °C
14:13.16X-Fadelardman: Not sure, I haven't checked any phones which have usb charging now.
14:14.11crashanddielardman & X-Fade: my blackberry charges fine through usb
14:14.28crashanddiethough, it needs some funky USB handshake in order to get enough current
14:14.35X-Fadecrashanddie: Sure, but a normal charger can deliver more mah..
14:14.39lardmancrashanddie: but probably not if it's doing something much
14:14.57crashanddieI guess you could always go with the double USB connector
14:15.08X-Fadecrashanddie: Which is lame ;)
14:15.12lardmanI find the nokia phone chargers take forever to charge the n8x0 as they are low current
14:15.16crashanddielame, but it works
14:15.23lardmancrashanddie: :)
14:15.55X-FadeYeah, they can also make a charger with an usb plug. So it can provide more, but still use the usb plug.
14:16.24crashanddieindeed
14:16.37crashanddieI had that for... An mp3 player of some sort, was pretty perfect
14:16.52lardmanthough the little nokia charger thingie must be pretty small inside too
14:17.15crashanddieIf they really want to be awesome, go like RIM: give a power plug that has all the major connectors and you can swap them round
14:17.16lardmanthe plug that is
14:17.18X-Fadelardman: Well, there is a plastic block surrounding it.
14:17.38*** join/#maemo krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.130)
14:17.47lardmanX-Fade: wel lI'll happily swap that bit of plastic for some more RAM, :)
14:18.00X-FadeIt all has to fit in a package a lot smaller than our N810 is now..
14:18.21lardman!
14:18.28lardmanwas that some classified info?
14:18.34X-FadeNo ;)
14:18.45lardmanbbiam, going to find some food
14:18.57lardmanplease tell us more, like the exact dimensions and what colour it is ;)
14:19.07X-FadeThat was wat both Ari and Peter hinted at at the summit.
14:19.41X-FadeBut then again, they are not the hardware people ;)
14:19.48johnxand they're having the developer program again, right? :D
14:20.14X-Fadejohnx: They are looking into giving some developers early access to hardware.
14:20.16alteregoShit, we've only got the cheap crap coffee now :(
14:20.29X-Fadejohnx: Even before release.
14:20.34johnx:)
14:20.44crashanddieso do we know for a fact it's going to be n900?
14:20.52X-Fadecrashanddie: No.
14:21.03johnxcrashanddie, we know for a fact it won't be called an internet tablet :)
14:21.12X-Fadecrashanddie: We know that it's hardware code is RX-51.
14:21.25X-FadeOr at least current proto is called that ;)
14:23.27alteregoIt's not an "Internet Tablet"?!?"
14:24.09X-FadeNext one isn't called that anymore.
14:24.32X-FadeBut then again, my N95 is called a "Multimedia Computer" :)
14:25.47johnxI think my pentium 166mmx machine was called that too :)
14:27.20X-FadeIt will be fun to see what marketing comes up with for the next iteration.
14:27.35johnxit will be fun to see what they do for the case style
14:27.53johnxand I'm really excited about the software :)
14:27.59*** join/#maemo StsN801 (n=user@212088073001.static.sonofon.dk)
14:28.04lardmanmmmm, tomato soup
14:28.11johnxmmm...tomato firmware
14:28.53lardmanwonders how they will make it smaller
14:29.41johnxthey have bezels to cut on the n810
14:29.48johnxand they can make it thinner
14:29.56lardmanyep
14:30.31lardmanhope that doesn't mean the kb goes
14:30.38johnxI'm sure it won't
14:30.51johnxI'd love to see what the sales numbers looked like after they added it
14:31.20johnxif the n810 didn't sell well they could have kept the n800 in production, but they didn't
14:31.28lardmangood point
14:31.38X-Fadelardman: Wasn't there a hint of hardware keyboard in the code..
14:31.40X-Fade?
14:31.54lardmanI don't remember, will have to take another look at it
14:32.30X-FadeKeyboard is mentioned here: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-commits/2009-January/012184.html
14:32.46lardmangood thing I don't have to talk here with my newly acquired tomato-soup-tongue-burn
14:32.48X-FadeBut doesn't mean it has to be a hardware keyboard..
14:33.18johnxlardman, yeah, that's why I prefer tomato firmware. no tongue burning problems
14:33.40X-FadeHmm and what is 'tana'?
14:33.41StsN801heh, a kbd that could be both mounted and detached could be neat
14:33.47lardmandepends how hot your chips get :)
14:34.16StsN801detached and used wirelessly that is
14:34.19johnxStsN801, detachable stuff always sounds like it would be fun, but it adds so much bulk...
14:34.24StsN801mm
14:34.33johnxthink: bug labs :)
14:34.42StsN801htc had magnetic kbd
14:34.53StsN801not directly bad idea
14:35.04lardmanX-Fade: tv-out
14:35.07lardmanfrom the looks of it
14:35.20RST38hanyone seen asus new eee keyboard?=)
14:35.45X-Fadelardman: Yeah, could be.
14:35.48johnxRST38h, heh, yeah. I posted it here a bit ago. shades of the computers of old, huh?
14:35.51*** join/#maemo EspeonEefi (n=espeonee@220-130-43-250.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
14:37.37RST38hjohnx: side screen is kinda new - old ones had an ashtray there =)
14:37.53johnxit's even made to be used with a TV
14:38.17johnxin every way this is the old idea redone with modern tech
14:38.23*** join/#maemo calvaris (n=calvaris@fanzine.igalia.com)
14:38.25RST38hwell, if you call nowadays hdmi equipped lcd panels tvs...
14:38.42johnxusually computer monitors are just DVI still, right?
14:39.03RST38hhdmi and dmi are the same thing
14:39.12RST38hdvi
14:39.39johnxeh, whatever. it's still designed to be used with a TV
14:40.02johnxthey said so themselves AFAIK. it's supposed to be an htpc
14:40.36StsN801hm, htpc rx-51..
14:40.48StsN801certainly power saving
14:40.54johnxyeah, a pandora will fill that spot nicely too :)
14:41.00johnxanything omap3 :)
14:41.30RST38hah pandora fills so many different slots right now...
14:41.36StsN801gf started saying i should get used to not having flatrate power
14:41.55RST38hI mean imaginary hw is always the greatest one :)
14:42.36RST38hsts: there is such thing as  flatrate power?
14:43.30johnxRST38h, dorm living? :)
14:43.43StsN801in the wide perspective no, but i pay the same for power,heat,water, through dorm rent
14:44.09StsN801+each month
14:44.12johnxRST38h, I'm mainly extrapolating from what the beagleboard is already capable of, so not exactly imaginary
14:44.15RST38hah
14:44.36RST38hjohnx: it is a pcb with wires.
14:45.15RST38has a pcb with wires, it is only capable of being a dev platform for hackers
14:45.29johnxRST38h, it decodes video and has tv-out. that's most of an htpc right there
14:46.06johnxmy desktop's motherboard is a "PCB with wires." I stuck it in a case and now I have a computer
14:46.31*** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A15EDC.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:47.12*** part/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A15EDC.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:52.14RST38hjohnx: will beagle decode 1280x768 divx or xvid video flawlessly?
14:52.14RST38hss
14:52.30johnxRST38h, yeah, think so. let me find the link
14:52.58RST38h(just asking because my 2.4ghz pentium4 cant)
14:53.25lardmanhmm, your pc should be able to decode that in real time
14:53.25*** join/#maemo flavioribeiro (n=avaty@189.71.5.77)
14:53.27johnxreally? that's kinda sad. only gets my 1.8GHz A64 going up to 50% CPU usage
14:53.27soul9depends on the video card
14:53.47soul9yeah, the 2,4 ghz shouldn't have problems with that
14:53.48crashanddieDVI != HDMi
14:54.50RST38hjohnx: well, it is definitely not fast enough
14:55.14johnxis it one of the older P4s?
14:55.19RST38hotoh, pentium4 is really a failure...
14:55.23johnxyes
14:55.26johnxno argument there
14:55.32RST38hdunno which one
14:55.52RST38hbut I doubt omap3 can do this either
14:56.24lardmanit has hw acceleration
14:56.34lardmanbuilt into the DSP, so might be possible
14:56.40lardmanin fact I'd have thought it would be
14:56.44johnxRST38h, people on the list are talking about 1080p :)
14:56.51johnx720p was demoed on CPU only
14:57.19lardmanam still shocked your p4 can't decode it though
14:57.45johnxlardman, if it's one of the oldest P4s I can believe it. they are thoroughly not fast
14:57.56RST38hunbelievably cool :)
14:58.10lardmanI've got a P4 3GHz here in my work pc
14:58.31RST38hcan we expect a mythtv port to n9x0 then?:)
14:59.08Khertan_at_workcry is source file lost on his sd card ..... snifffff
14:59.36*** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-53-225.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net)
14:59.39*** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@p5B202EBB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
15:00.16johnxRST38h, have one for the n8x0 I believe. frontend only though
15:01.48lardmanRST38h: what are you running your xvid decoder on?
15:02.01lardmanwhat platform and which codec are you using?
15:02.33RST38hlardman: asus digimatrix
15:02.44lardmanLinux?
15:02.49RST38hlardman: ffdshow
15:02.50johnxRST38h, http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/2692388640/
15:02.56RST38hno, xp media center
15:03.01johnxh.264 no less :)
15:03.45crashanddieis hoping to hear good news at macworld SF about either new mac pros or new iMac
15:03.51crashanddiequad core iMac would be awesome
15:03.53johnxcrashanddie, neither
15:03.57RST38hjohnx: I am here from a cell phone, have mercy
15:04.02*** join/#maemo damoursda (n=chatzill@198.164.42.77)
15:04.31crashanddieI want a proper desktop, and if it could be a mac, would be perfect...
15:05.14crashanddieI'd love to see a quad core iMac with 12+ gig of RAM and at least a terrabyte of storage... Good enough to run a couple of VMs from and have some space to breathe
15:05.16johnxRST38h, It's the "Big Buck Bunny" video in 720P being shown running from a beagleboard at some conference
15:05.30*** join/#maemo mgedmin (n=mg@office.pov.lt)
15:05.33johnxcrashanddie, all they announced was iLife, iWork and a new 17" macbook pro
15:05.40crashanddieyeah but shush
15:05.44Khertan_at_workcrashanddie: announce was already done
15:05.49crashanddieit ain't over yet
15:05.55Khertan_at_workcrashanddie: just a 17" macbook
15:06.06crashanddieI know, I can go to macrumors.com as well, thanks
15:06.18crashanddieyou never know, they may be coming back
15:06.50johnxActually the NEC all-in-one desktops look nice. very nice and portable
15:07.12Stskeepswoo, work n800 is charging!
15:07.24RST38hlots of these on the market - asus, hp, sony...
15:07.34lardmanRST38h: looks cool, the wonders of windows, perhaps try tweaking your ffshow settings?
15:07.40crashanddieyeah the specs are shite
15:08.15johnxmeh. I do my big builds on servers on other continents...
15:08.27*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gateway.sunflowerbroadband.com)
15:08.29lardmanneeds to buy a new work PC, quad core sounds good
15:08.59*** join/#maemo Khertan (n=khertan@AAmiens-151-1-8-107.w83-192.abo.wanadoo.fr)
15:08.59johnxwants a new PC...but doesn't really need one. a dual core mini-itx system sounds nice though
15:09.19lardmanwants CUDA
15:09.33RST38hlardman: already did, no luck
15:09.33lardmannot that I need a new PC for that
15:09.47lardmanRST38h: hmm, no idea then, blame Windows perhaps ;)
15:09.52RST38hlardman: not buying another asus machine ever again
15:10.37RST38hlardman: chinese engineering at its finest
15:11.03lardmanoh
15:11.17lardmanfair enough, /me files that warning for future reference
15:11.42johnxahaha...the idea of trying to avoid things made in China is hilarious
15:11.57ZicHi, I have a graphic bug with latest upgrades of my Maemo Diablo : I have not the load icon content when I launch an application, just "Foo is loading..."
15:11.58RST38hjohnx: that is not what I meant
15:12.09ZicHow can I fix it?
15:12.37RST38hjohnx: poor digimatrix problem is that it isDESIGNED in china
15:13.10RST38hso, it is made of cheap, substandard parts, tied with string
15:13.31RST38hdont believe me? google for the specs.
15:13.33johnxRST38h, in contrast to the American P4 which was shit slow *and* expensive
15:14.01RST38hjohnx: actually, p4 is a good example of american engineering fallacies
15:14.24johnxRST38h, yeah, coasting when you reach the top
15:14.31RST38hjohnx: like, inability to listen to criticism for example ;)
15:15.00johnxZic, what do you mean about not having "load icon content." I don't quite understand
15:16.35Zicjohnx: the animated load icon when you are launching an application, at the left corner of the displayed notification "FooBar is loading..."
15:17.17*** join/#maemo TTilus (i=terotil@idan.ihme.org)
15:18.48lardmandoes the icon in question appear once the app is loaded?
15:19.13lardmanoh in the message, hmm, I don't rememeber that
15:21.56Khertan_at_workhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2615
15:21.57*** join/#maemo StsN800 (n=user@awbaukom.nfit.au.dk)
15:22.00Khertan_at_worklook the last comment
15:22.20Khertan_at_workfremantle will not use jffs2
15:22.21Khertan_at_work?
15:22.49Khertan_at_workso no jffs2 mean ssd in the next device ?
15:22.49lardmanubifs
15:23.02lardmannew flash fs
15:23.31Khertan_at_workubifs was mainly done for ssd right ?
15:23.46johnxit's for raw NAND, IIRC
15:23.56StsN800heh, always good when your universitys forum nokia contact comes to offer assistance/nokia devices if i need any
15:25.31johnxhot sauce. you need two n900s pronto
15:25.48StsN800hehe
15:26.08StsN800he said that too, early access:P
15:26.37lardmanyour uni has a nokia rep?
15:26.40lardmanwhy's that?
15:27.45StsN800we do a lot of pervasive computing stuff and my former boss is the contact here
15:28.11lardmancool :)
15:28.31StsN800gets devices if we need them for research/classes/study group/etc
15:28.54lardmanworks in the wrong field :)
15:29.22crashanddie"Yes, we need 180 n96's for a study group... Err, length of lease? Indefinite"
15:30.13*** join/#maemo kcome (n=kcome@58.217.138.195)
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15:37.20StsN800johnx, scary fact - skype x86 looks correct in mer
15:37.33johnxwait, huh?
15:37.56johnxthey did their own emulation of the hildonized look?
15:38.38StsN800nah
15:38.38StsN800just ran in it
15:39.04*** join/#maemo hvelarde|stealth (n=chatzill@193.47.76.31)
15:44.09qwerty12welcomes the effin slow bugzilla
15:52.29*** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at)
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15:54.20woglindehi
15:55.00*** join/#maemo Meiz_n810 (n=Meizirkk@h131228.gprs.dnafinland.fi)
15:55.27florianhi woglinde
15:55.42woglindehe florian you did some work on gpe
15:56.02florianwoglinde: yes a little bit
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16:00.46johnxStskeeps, is there something up with repository.mer.tspre.org ?
16:01.55johnxnm, didn't resolve once, but now it does O_o
16:02.54StsN800k
16:07.08*** join/#maemo Sargun (n=Sargun@66.151.148.225)
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16:13.31r2d2rogersgood morning
16:15.34johnxmornin' r2d2rogers :)
16:16.00qwerty12Hrm, libtool is still missing despite me explicitly specifying it as a build-depend. I'll just shove it in the package.
16:16.05r2d2rogersit's always fun to say that in a multi timezone channel ;)
16:16.41*** join/#maemo madhav (n=Administ@122.172.59.49)
16:16.47r2d2rogersI think I'm wishing for an alternative to sapwood.... I'd like to get past that issue...
16:17.23johnxr2d2rogers, not sapwood related, but you've heard of ugt, right? :)
16:17.33r2d2rogersnosir
16:18.25r2d2rogersNice
16:18.31r2d2rogerslikes google
16:18.53*** join/#maemo corq-ubu (n=corq@cmh500-pix1-external-11.inchord.net)
16:19.09johnx~ugt
16:19.10infobotrumour has it, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
16:19.28qwerty12Freenode has their own freenode Standard Time...
16:19.31r2d2rogersyup, found the URL mentioned
16:19.46*** join/#maemo stelleg (n=george@205.250.252.87)
16:21.25johnxStskeeps, actually, speaking of sapwood, do you have a copy of the sapwood .deb that worked on my zaurus?
16:22.00StsN800somewhre
16:22.44StsN800in meeting atm
16:22.54johnxno rush
16:22.56StsN800look at logs maybe
16:23.02johnxgood idea :)
16:23.13StsN800prolly on bsd.tspre.org
16:23.25johnxah, yeah, thanks
16:25.18r2d2rogersmakes .desktop files to use backgrounds on Mer
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16:30.33crashanddieis Fremantle going to be backwards compatible with the n8x0 ?
16:30.44qwerty12Not officially
16:30.50qwerty12hence:...
16:30.51qwerty12~mer
16:30.52infobotsomebody said mer was http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint
16:31.03qwerty12aren't I a typing whore?
16:31.24crashanddieDon't know about the typing... but you sure are a w...
16:31.35crashanddieAnyway
16:31.37crashanddiethanks for that
16:31.42qwerty12:)
16:33.04*** join/#maemo zs (n=zs@87-205-137-178.adsl.inetia.pl)
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16:34.43Khertan_at_workBye
16:35.05woglindehi crashanddie
16:35.18Khertan_at_workpfff 100 Euros by year the online backup ... i ll bougth an other nas ... it s cheaper !
16:35.19Khertan_at_workbye
16:35.25woglindebye jhertan
16:35.28woglindehm to late
16:35.50woglindeonline backups is straid going to all secret services
16:36.28johnxGAN800, well, there's your answer about SDHC and the 2TB limit :/
16:36.55VeggenKhertan: is there any online backup services that are reasonable?
16:37.28Veggeni.e. what do you get for the 100 euros?
16:38.11qwerty12couldn't stand an online backup service, my upload speed isn't brilliantly great anyway.
16:38.28crashanddieprepares for a shitstorm after his last bug comment
16:38.44crashanddieI quite like Carbonite
16:38.47Veggenqwerty12: my hosting provider didn't provide backup, so I think I'll buy the service elsewhere.
16:39.02qwerty12expects more on my comment. You agree with Nokia so...
16:39.11qwerty12Veggen, ah
16:40.12VeggenI'm on a tidying-my-flat-mission. That includes getting rid of boxes that needs to be always on :)
16:40.42qwerty12I recommend backing up to floppy disks. :P
16:41.10crashanddieqwerty12: you the faheem bloke?
16:41.14qwerty12crashanddie, yes
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16:41.21johnxVeggen, replace them with one small box that needs to be always on :)
16:41.39Veggenjohnx: doable.
16:42.07Veggenbut I ended up getting a virtualized server for most of my needs.
16:42.31Veggenanything I'm gonna have always on at home is gonna have no moving parts.
16:42.51johnxan interesting goal :)
16:43.12johnxcould fill a thecus n2100 with a couple SSDs and take the fan out
16:43.57Veggenjohnx: a backup-server doesn't necessarily have to be always on, my asterisk box, I think don't need much diskspace and can be fanless too.
16:44.22johnxthe question is does a hard disk count as a "moving part"?
16:44.25Veggenjohnx: and everything else at home can be turned off after my outsourcing-mission :)
16:44.30Veggenjohnx: yup.
16:44.49johnxwhat are you doing for mass file storage?
16:45.12VeggenI'm gonna have no such things that need to be on.
16:45.18Veggenunless I use it.
16:46.04johnxso if you want files from one machine on the other you'll need to walk around and turn both on?
16:47.12Veggenjohn: oh, the goal isn't necessarily to never have them on, it's to be able to turn them off at night, and when I go on vacation.
16:48.18johnxfair enough I guess, I'm just trying to reduce the power usage of my always on machines
16:48.46Veggenit's not as much power usage as noise and mess I'm trying to reduce :)
16:49.04johnxI can totally appreciate that :)
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17:00.15crashanddiejust buy one big server and have loads of VMs on them
17:00.16crashanddie:P
17:00.39crashanddieput it in the shed, deadlock on the door, done
17:02.36qwerty12Anyone happen to know the easiest way I can compile an xpidl binary? I downloaded the mozilla sources last time, a pita...
17:03.22crashanddiexpi ? Firefox extension?
17:03.46qwerty12I think *xpidl* is an compiler of some sort for extensions
17:04.09*** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@a88-114-233-119.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
17:04.13qwerty12Oh, not a compiler: "xpidl is a tool for generating XPCOM interface information"
17:05.33crashanddieit's based off libIDL... What could go wrong?/How hard can it be?
17:06.43qwerty12According to the wiki page, I can build it after "./configuring" the mozilla source and running make -C on a few dirs but that didn't go well. Fuck it, there's probably a binary in the xulrunner distributed with fennec
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17:30.39qwerty12Figured it out, to save time for any other people: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/xpidl
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17:41.24r2d2rogersanyone tried fennec on Mer?
17:42.02johnxnope
17:42.09johnxI'll probably try Tear first
17:42.42r2d2rogerscool, I wasn't aware of tear
17:43.34johnxit's really quite impressive. once support for downloading files is in I won't miss microb at all
17:43.43r2d2rogersnice
17:46.03*** join/#maemo Knowledge (n=Knowledg@222.228.226.166.in-addr.arpa)
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17:46.11r2d2rogersI'm amused that the unthemed hildon is more useable...
17:46.20r2d2rogersWRT the sapwood bug
17:46.21*** part/#maemo Knowledge (n=Knowledg@222.228.226.166.in-addr.arpa)
17:46.34r2d2rogersI moved the .so file for sapwood and I can use the dropdowns better
17:46.50r2d2rogersadvanced back light has sliders now <G>
17:47.00johnxyeah, but lots of things that want to draw icons just won't work I think
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17:47.48johnxI might be willing to send my zaurus off to anyone who wants to look at the problem
17:48.51Khertan_n810_4http://khertan.net/index.php/post/2009/01/07/Lost-3-week-of-work-...6
17:49.13Khertan_n810_4johnx: what is the problem ?
17:49.27johnxsapwood bug on armv5te processors
17:50.15Khertan_n810_4so this is software ...
17:50.27johnxyeah, but hardware dependent it seems
17:50.59*** join/#maemo b0unc3 (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-155-204.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
17:51.00Khertan_n810_4which rom used ?
17:51.04johnxalso, about the sd card thing...I wonder if it was the sd card or other electronic component not behaving correctly in the cold...
17:51.08johnxKhertan, Mer :)
17:51.27Khertan_n810_4héhé ... lol
17:51.34johnxubuntu/mer, same as the one that's running on the n8x0 next to it
17:51.51r2d2rogersI see the same bug on a 770
17:52.03Khertan_n810_4ouch it s snowing again
17:52.22Khertan_n810_4smae bug ? sapwood ? or sdcard ?
17:52.29johnxr2d2rogers, though actually you're getting different behavior it seems. it actually works on the zaurus for the most part after stskeeps modification to sapwood
17:52.30r2d2rogerssprry sapwood
17:52.40r2d2rogersah nevermind
17:53.00johnxbut it's almost certainly related somehow
17:53.58stelleganyone compiling kernels ever gotten this message?
17:53.59stellegundefined reference to `otg_set_transceiver'
17:54.27stellegdefinitely compiling with otg support
17:54.49stellegonly header file with otg_set_transceiver is otg.h
17:55.13stellegand otg.c is definitely getting compiled
17:55.42*** join/#maemo housetier (n=housetie@unaffiliated/housetier)
17:55.55bakaratok first time to put maemo mapper to actual real life use
17:55.57bakarati'm impressed hehe :>
17:56.34Khertan_n810_4is trying to charge his n810 cpu to keep his tablet at a temp superior to zero
17:58.48johnxKhertan_n810_4, don't know if that will be enough to keep everything inside the case warmer than freezing...
17:59.27bakaratbtw, is there a way to change the color of the "route" in mapper?
17:59.38bakaratcause the route is indicated in green, and i have to follow a really long blue road :|
17:59.52Khertan_n810_4johnx: i see that
18:00.15johnxbakarat, maybe you should go somewhere else...maybe someplace on a red road?
18:00.22johnxheads to bed
18:00.31bakaratjohnx, ye, i'll ask my customer to move :p
18:01.14*** join/#maemo Pebby_ (n=PebbyWeb@c-24-5-47-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
18:01.55qwerty12bakarat, have you by any chance actually opened the settings of maemo-mapper?
18:02.19bakaratqwerty12, hmm, i checked quickly but was on the road at the time hehe :D
18:02.23bakaratqwerty12, my bad, must have overlooked it
18:02.40qwerty12:)
18:03.30*** join/#maemo ThatOneGuy (n=k@bas3-kingston08-1168065810.dsl.bell.ca)
18:03.39*** join/#maemo melmoth (n=melmoth@did75-18-88-171-132-204.fbx.proxad.net)
18:13.33bakaratthere was a suggestion to build a lightweight http server for the nokia that could serve up the tiles maemo mapper needs and calculate routes etc, to run alongside maemo mapper (optionally)
18:13.39bakaratdoes anyone know if anyone is working on that? :>
18:13.58bakarator if it is even feasible? (not sure if nokia n810 is powerful enough?)
18:17.49*** join/#maemo dougt (n=dougt@guest-225.mountainview.mozilla.com)
18:19.54crashanddieKhertan_n810: On est dans une crise a la japonaise... Et ca je peux pas le saké
18:21.58crashanddiebakarat: don't see the point of generating the tiles for maemo mapper in html format, and then having an html interpreter to show them
18:22.24bakaratcrashanddie, well the benefit of serving it up as http is so maemo mapper itself does not need to be altered
18:22.36bakaratthen you can have a more modular system
18:24.02*** join/#maemo forger (n=jeez@200.184.118.130)
18:24.56crashanddieeh?
18:25.02crashanddieMaemo doesn't need to be altered?
18:25.13crashanddies/Maemo/mapper/
18:25.32crashanddiedon't understand what you mean by that
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18:28.30ThatOneGuydoesn anyone know why I get 'make: *** /lib/modules/2.6.18-6.686/build: No such file or directory. Stop'  when trying to compile in scratchbox?
18:28.56qwerty12Compiling a module?
18:29.01ThatOneGuyyes
18:29.12qwerty12Point it to the diablo kernel sources
18:29.26ThatOneGuyactually it's the one you put up a while ago, rtl8187
18:29.36ThatOneGuyI'm trying to compile for bora
18:29.48qwerty12Hmm, I haven't actually touched those in a while :/
18:29.55ThatOneGuyI know lol
18:31.13*** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=valerio@bl11-137-30.dsl.telepac.pt)
18:31.23qwerty12I'm actually really lazy, what I do is apt-get source kernel-source-diablo (I don't know the bora equivalent sorry) and go into it and do make nokia_2420_defconfig and then just plain make and I then just make symlinks to the compiled kernel source wherever the module is looking for the sources
18:32.25qwerty12You can just edit the Makefiles manually but it's a bit tedious once to start to compile more than one module or if there are many Makefiles
18:32.39ThatOneGuyI was just about to say that
18:33.17RST38hhttp://curiousexpeditions.org/?p=78
18:33.18RST38hEnjoy
18:34.26ThatOneGuydoes 'mach-omap1' sound right for the kernel headers?
18:34.31*** join/#maemo stelleg1 (n=george@205.250.252.87)
18:34.49RST38hno, you have got omap2
18:36.03*** join/#maemo flavioribeiro (n=avaty@189.71.5.77)
18:37.25ThatOneGuyare you sure? my 770 says 2.6.16.27-omap1
18:37.45*** join/#maemo rzr (n=RzR@lav35-1-82-236-136-171.fbx.proxad.net)
18:38.02qwerty12ah, you're using an hacker edition, I have no idea regarding them then :/
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18:39.30ThatOneGuyah crap
18:39.51ThatOneGuywell thanks, I'll keep messing around and see what happens
18:40.36RST38hah, it is 770...omap1 it is then
18:43.56*** part/#maemo jpnurmi (i=jpnurmi@libqxt/developer/jpnurmi)
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19:10.30lcukIT WORKS AGAIN!
19:10.44lcuksprays you all
19:11.03qwerty12_N800IT = ? :)
19:11.47lcukmy water jet thingy on my car
19:12.06qwerty12_N800hah :D
19:12.19lcukmeeting in one hour?
19:15.00X-FadeYep.
19:15.27lcukby eck X-Fade ello, did you have a good xmas break?
19:16.22X-FadeHi Gary. Sure, I had a nice time.
19:17.14lcukdid santa claus bring you anything nice?
19:17.14X-FadeAlthough the maemo.org mail breaking puzzled me for a while..
19:17.30lcukwe just put it down to you being afk - its the usual thing
19:17.46X-FadeA Hurricane 550 heli ;)
19:18.18lcukNICE! have you had a chance to fly it yet, or do you have to wait a few months
19:18.37X-FadeNo, it was SpamAssassin that had a socket which died.. (spamd)
19:19.01X-FadeI have gotten a pair of gloves with the tips of the fingers cut off ;)
19:19.14X-FadeSo I can fly at near 0 temperatures ;)
19:19.15lcukheh snow flying will be extra cool
19:19.31X-FadeNah, high power and snow doesn't mix..
19:19.56X-Fade24v 3300mah can give nice fireworks..
19:19.58lcukso is it in kit form?
19:20.05lcukyeah, so dont crash it ;)
19:20.34X-FadeNo I didn't get the kit, got it second hand for a great price.
19:21.08lcukyeah, loads of copters just sit there, people get scared of crashing them
19:21.34X-FadeBut I have flown it about 15 times now, really a monster.
19:21.38lcukhasnt fired his up since rebuilding after an accident
19:21.59X-Fade120cm blade disk..
19:22.03lcukplus i got this little nokia thing
19:22.37X-FadeI plan to use my N95 as cam for it :)
19:22.43lcukyeah, well you need that to allow decent 3d control - im surprised a little though, thats v close to petrol size
19:22.53lcuk:D w00t
19:23.22lcukif you get hold of a prototype you could demo the raw power of the omap3 at the next summit
19:23.45X-FadeHeh, well I'm sure I won't have it in my hands before you guys do :)
19:24.00*** part/#maemo corq-ubu (n=corq@cmh500-pix1-external-11.inchord.net)
19:24.03lcukwhen i was flying mine i thought about making some sort of computer assisted stability unit
19:24.31lcukhave you flown a real copter?
19:24.35X-FadeWell, you can use a 3-axis gyro and add some cool logic to control it..
19:24.37lcukwould love to
19:24.59X-FadeNo, I haven't. Would love it too, but that is very costly..
19:25.08*** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@ANantes-252-1-41-34.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr)
19:25.11lcukat present you are the bio "cool logic unit" :D
19:25.31X-FadeYeah, although that is cool too.
19:25.32lcukyeah, for anything more than a taster it gets silly
19:26.08lcukhave you got more RC units then?
19:26.20lcukand what does mrs x-fade think of them
19:26.47X-Fadelcuk: I bought here a dog ;) So I have some credits left..
19:26.56X-Fade*her
19:27.29lcuka radio controlled dog?
19:27.35lcuk:D
19:28.01X-FadeNo a real one..
19:28.25lcukmy son got one of these flapping wing RC units from relatives this year, only a toy but impressive in scale and design - there was a time they said we couldnt get beating wing RC units due to weight
19:29.35X-FadeThe Robinson R22 seems to be the most affordable heli for real flights. _only_ 240k usd ;)
19:29.52lcukheh
19:30.14X-Fadelcuk: Yeah, was at an indoor fly-in this weekend. Somebody brought a bird like rc unit there too.
19:30.18X-FadePretty fun.
19:30.30X-Fadehttp://www.robinsonheli.com/pdf_files/r22_pricelist_july_2008.pdf ;)
19:31.16dnearyhi
19:31.50lcukheh, thats a fully encapsulated one, you can get them smaller with contra rotating
19:32.19lcukhttp://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LdQwTOef4_g&NR=1
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19:34.13X-FadeYeah, that thing can chop your head off easily ;)
19:34.32lcukthey aren't called choppers for nothing ;)
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19:41.40r2d2rogers~seen texrat
19:41.44infobotr2d2rogers: i haven't seen 'texrat'
19:42.03qwerty12_N800don't think he goes on irc..
19:42.15X-FadeHaven't seen him here..
19:42.19r2d2rogerscool
19:42.45*** part/#maemo dougt (n=dougt@guest-225.mountainview.mozilla.com)
19:42.46r2d2rogersjust trying to think of where I might contact him... I'm not good at waiting patiently some times ;0)
19:42.55qwerty12_N800pm
19:43.11r2d2rogersdid,, after email day before yesterday
19:55.12RST38hmoo all
19:55.18qwerty12_N800moo
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19:56.40JaffaX-Fade: 1232 UTC today
19:57.07X-FadeGreat news. What are you doing here then :)
19:57.31*** join/#maemo lpotter (n=ljp@58.173.176.153)
19:57.43JaffaX-Fade: watching a Spider-man cartoon with the toddler before bed
19:58.01*** join/#maemo Meiz_n810 (n=Meizirkk@bbwirelessgw2-fee7dc00-167.dhcp.inet.fi)
19:58.01X-FadeJaffa: Don't feel obligated to hang around here.. really.
20:01.12GeneralAntilles-> #maemo-meeting
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20:06.44*** part/#maemo rlifchitz (n=rlifchit@ras75-5-82-234-246-228.fbx.proxad.net)
20:07.39*** join/#maemo stelleg (n=george@205.250.252.87)
20:07.39Meiz_n810any working optional smb browser for maemo
20:07.39Meiz_n810?
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20:13.45dnearyRST38h: maemo-community mailing list is a great place to make suggestions on the site desig
20:14.15RST38hdneary: I already made suggestions from the very beginning of this discussion. Have given up by now.
20:14.46RST38hdneary: The mockup is basically not going to work because in reality the amount of data that goes into 4 pictured equal-sized boxes is vastly different
20:15.33RST38hdneary: So, some of these boxes (Documentation and Reference) will be small (1/4 of browser window) scrolling windows made up of dozens of lines. Others will only contain 4-5 entries
20:16.32RST38hdneary: I suggested a different, much simpler mockup before, that allows for much easier expansion (although not endless, of course). There is a link to my mockup from appropriate bug trackers in bugzilla
20:17.25dnearyRST38h: Please don't give up - I have solicited feedback on the various drafts & designs & not gotten much
20:17.42RST38hdneary: Right now, I do not believe that anyone will listen, sorry
20:18.08dnearyI don't want to get showered with criticism when the page goes live and have you say "told you so" - if you have changes to suggest, please suggest them
20:18.13*** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@147.17.168.202-static.velocitynet.com.au)
20:18.31RST38hdneary: As I said, the current mockup in that Wiki page is unworkable
20:18.34dnearyBut if you don't believe that, then don't expect anyone to listen when it's gone live & you complain either
20:18.51RST38hdneary: It does not take into account the amount of links that will have to go into each of those windows
20:18.52dnearyWhy? What's wrong with it? What's missing? What is there that shouldn't be.?
20:19.15RST38hdneary: See my comments above (I said what is wrong twice)
20:19.54dnearyWhat links should be on the page that aren't there now?
20:20.11dnearyBecause what's there is what will be on the main site if you don't suggest otherwise
20:20.23RST38hmmm...ok, one more time
20:20.33dnearyAnd - sorry to say this - but I'm in a meeting at the same time, the mailing list is really the best place for this discussion
20:21.09RST38hSorry, I will
20:21.18dnearyPerhaps you could give me the bug number for your simpler extensible mock-up also, please?
20:21.25RST38hYes, a moment
20:21.30dnearythanks
20:23.16RST38hhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3972
20:24.02RST38hOk, I will now try to explain one more time what is wrong with the current proposal. I will do it interactively because otherwise it does not seem to work
20:25.00RST38hPlease, refer to this mockup: https://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Development_wireframe.png - do you see 4 square windows at the middle?
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20:27.56anidelhi everyone
20:28.24qwerty12_N800hi anidel
20:28.35anidelis the meeting still on ?
20:28.40anidelhi qwerty
20:28.42qwerty12_N800yep
20:28.52anidelok joining
20:31.23RST38hOh, well, I guess it wasn't worth it.
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20:51.01Andrewfblackdo any of the other browsers people are working on run ajax any faster then standard one?
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21:05.43RST38hAndrew: You probably want a WebKit based browser
21:06.02RST38hThere is Tear and another project that runs WebKit engine inside MicroB
21:07.32qwerty12_N800prefers browser-ui one but can't wait for Tear to be a bit more stable so I can tell browser-ui & browserd to fuck off
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21:09.16GeneralAntillesYeesh, bug #943 kind of exploded
21:10.21qwerty12_N800Rotation one is the one that is fucking me right off atm
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21:10.57X-FadeYeah, there must be a better way to fix this.
21:11.01GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, well, did you really expect any other answer?
21:11.09qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles, yes.
21:11.14GeneralAntillesHehe
21:11.31X-FadeMaybe we can talk with kontori about it?
21:11.31GeneralAntillesYeah, Nokia's new found direction would certainly make it feel like it should've been the opposite
21:11.42GeneralAntillesBut we've still got a lot of the old ways left to overcome
21:11.57GeneralAntillesThings will be better with the Fremantle -> Harmattan transition, I'm sure.
21:12.05X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I'm sure it will be better with Fremantle. But in the meanwhile we are stuck. And it seems like a long way off.
21:12.17GeneralAntillesBut we're infinitely more agile than Nokia is and it's hard to keep it in perspective.
21:12.39qwerty12_N800Like I said, I do think it's unfair to ask Nokia for new features but it's bollocks imo when the feature has already been implemented by the community properly
21:12.44GeneralAntillesmilhouse, s/Freemantle/Fremantle/g :P
21:13.06GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, well, they workflow isn't set up to be able to handle small enhancements like that.
21:13.22X-Fadeqwerty12_N800: There is a lot of certification etc going on before something is released.
21:13.25GeneralAntillesDespite the fact that the patches have been tested extensively, and despite the fact that they've proven to be perfectly stable
21:13.40GeneralAntillesNokia will still need to do their own testing, and a lot more work besides just code integration.
21:13.44X-FadeBut still, I really think we should be able to get this in.
21:13.59GeneralAntillesX-Fade, sadly, all that work for certification actually means zero in the real world.
21:14.06GeneralAntillesSince Nokia's testing methods, apparently, suck.
21:14.16RST38hX-Fade: Rotation patches will not affect any test results when not used
21:14.34X-FadeGeneralAntilles: But people like adobe etc need to sign off on it too.
21:14.34RST38hX-Fade: So reviewing them, rolling them in, and releasing with the next update is a no brainer
21:14.36qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles, Fair enough, I'm looking at it at face value (or rather the time it takes to run patch) :)
21:14.41X-FadeIt is just very complicated.
21:15.11X-FadeToo complicated atm, let's hope that gets easier..
21:15.39X-FadeOr if we could just put it in Extras without breaking, it would be ok too.
21:15.53X-FadeBut that doesn't seem possible atm either.
21:16.08qwerty12_N800It would be a nightmare, jott has the right idea with a separate repo
21:17.06qwerty12_N800(yes, i am pro extras but there are times when separate repos work out best all-round)
21:17.58X-FadeI still think a community meta package is the way to go.
21:19.33GeneralAntillesX-Fade, yeah, I think that's a good direction
21:19.48GeneralAntillesMost of those resources are being put in Mer's more ambitious direction, though.
21:19.52qwerty12_N800tz1 messed things up though by uploading bluez-utils-test into extras, uploading xomap & kernel-diablo-flasher kinda makes me shudder :/
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21:21.11X-Fadeqwerty12_N800: 'firmware' repos and app repos can be a different thing ;)
21:21.18X-FadeThat sounds pretty sane..
21:22.05GeneralAntillesHow does Ubuntu handle patched up kernels and upgrades?
21:22.23X-Fade'Provides' ?
21:22.25qwerty12_N800It'd work for me, but it's probably easier to upload rotation suuprt to extras when nokia stop providing updates
21:22.40qwerty12_N800s/suuprt/support/
21:23.56GrackleGeneralAntilles, compiling your own kernel the ubuntu way is a very simple process
21:29.49GeneralAntillesGrackle, I'm not talking compiling.
21:30.30GeneralAntillesIf Ubuntu ships an updated kernel, and you're using a patched kernel, how is the upgrade handled? (Assuming this is a real use-case, my experience with desktop Linux is extremely limited)
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21:31.56GrackleOh, I'm not sure. You can lock your custom kernel packages if you don't want something else to be installed in their place, but that may not be necessary.
21:32.08qwerty12_N800It gets installed but it just adds an option to boot with the new kernel to the bootloader
21:32.33GeneralAntillesAh, OK.
21:33.20johnxeven normal upgrades result in more than one kernel choice to boot
21:37.25GeneralAntillesMmm . . . food
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21:37.50johnxcofee (!)
21:38.13Stskeepsevening
21:38.35johnxmorning :)
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21:41.06StskeepsGeneralAntilles: is a meeting log up yet?
21:41.24GeneralAntillesHarass X-Fade
21:41.29b-manhello, Stskeeps :)
21:41.32GeneralAntillesIt's fun AND productive. :P
21:41.54StskeepsX-Fade: <harass> log up yet? ;) (pretty please)
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21:45.45JaffaGeneralAntilles: #943 has gone mad, seemingly starting with Eero in #19 saying "offline's useful as some processes constantly ping the network" [my response would be "fix that brokenness"]
21:46.34johnxThe RSS reader is among those b0rken processes, even in offline mode >_<
21:46.36Stskeeps'offline mode' makes sense, though
21:46.50Stskeepsas in, it should not attempt network contact when 'offline'
21:46.55GeneralAntillesJaffa, which is clearly out of spec
21:48.00JaffaThe concept of an always on device, with no standby, and complex processes managing it's wifi connectivity automatically - for best battery usage and user experience - is nice in theory...
21:48.04RST38hnow starts seriously wondering what 943 is
21:48.18Jaffahttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=943 - quick standby mode
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21:48.43GeneralAntillesJaffa, but in practice often results in less than optimal standby time. ;)
21:48.45RST38hYea, brought it up
21:48.54JaffaGeneralAntilles: aye
21:50.13RST38hscratches his head: isn't this addable via a third party app?
21:50.32Stskeepspowerlaunch?
21:50.32Stskeeps:P
21:50.52RST38hprobably something even simpler than that
21:51.05GeneralAntillesRST38h, if I could convince David to add some gconf hooks. :\
21:51.15qwerty12_N800/etc/mce/mce.ini
21:51.24GeneralAntillesAs it is, the whole device will need to be restarted and the configfile re-read to make any settings changes.
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21:52.39RST38hGeneral: umgh
21:53.25RST38hAnd there is *really* no way to place a little program that starts on device lock and send some dbus message turning wifi off? =)
21:53.33RST38hsends
21:53.52GeneralAntillesRST38h, /etc/mce/mce.ini
21:54.03GeneralAntillesThe required functionality is all in mce
21:54.12GeneralAntillesbut there's no way to configure it easily
21:54.45Stskeepsjohnx: so what's new Mer-wise?
21:54.58GeneralAntillesNow, if we had gconf settings, it'd be as easy as putting together a control panel.
21:55.08StskeepsGeneralAntilles: mce should just be what it is in powerlaunch, a tiny daemon handling different states..
21:55.16Stskeepsand rest being done in systemui like things
21:55.21RST38hwonders if The Tentacled One can be coerced into fixing mce.ini functionality
21:55.25RST38hFOR GOOD.
21:55.26StskeepsOHM should improve this
21:55.28GeneralAntillesWell, whatever, OHM. :P
21:55.38GeneralAntillesRST38h, not at this point.
21:55.59RST38hGeneral: Notice the "for good" part =)
21:56.04GeneralAntillesMaybe we can talk Nokia into building a gconf binary for us for a community edition.
21:56.08RST38hit was added there for a reason...
21:56.21RST38hGeneral: you mean, mce binary
21:56.33RST38hbecause gconf (as storage mechanism) does not care
21:56.40GeneralAntilless/a gconf/a gconf-based mce/
21:56.41johnxStskeeps, bashed my head against a wall with tzselect+zenity, looking at a proper 640x480 layout for a bit
21:56.46Stskeepsjohnx: alright
21:56.48Stskeepsfound the sapwood?
21:57.01johnxyeah, works great in everything I've tested
21:57.05RST38hactually...
21:57.09qwerty12_N800grins at the idea of patching the leaked, old mce source and uploading a patch to nokia
21:57.22qwerty12_N800s/nokia/bugzilla/
21:57.25RST38hA good behaving Unix daemon is supposed to reread configuration on SIGHUP
21:57.38RST38hIs mce different?
21:57.55Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: yeah, except that kind of behaviour is bound to give you trouble at some point in a future job application process..
21:58.19Stskeepsbut while you're at it, check if it responds to HUP
21:58.27GeneralAntillesStskeeps, qwerty12 is a gangster, he don't need no job.
21:58.31Stskeepslook for signal() and sig* stuff
21:58.32qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, yeah, not worth the trouble for an wontfix
21:58.51Stskeepssuggestion for bug resolution "COMMUNITYSHOULDFIXIT"
21:58.51Stskeeps:P
21:59.08qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles, ha, I'm just a boy with an extremely bad swearing habit..
21:59.26*** join/#maemo TrueJournals (n=User@c-67-173-67-77.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
21:59.28RST38hSts: Or just FUCKOFF
21:59.35TrueJournalsBad time?
21:59.53GeneralAntillesTrueJournals, context. :)
21:59.54StskeepsTrueJournals: nah, discussing bug resolution types
21:59.58TrueJournalsAh
22:00.03Stskeeps'WONTFIX' 'COMMUNITYSHOULDFIXIT' 'FUCKOFF'
22:00.04Stskeeps:P
22:00.11TrueJournalsThat'd be a good one, actually...
22:00.16GeneralAntillesEither way, I agree. Stskeeps, just fuck off. :P
22:00.34Stskeeps:P~
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22:02.59StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i'm inclined to think "just restarting" mce isn't fatal though
22:03.34RST38hhas doubts about this
22:03.55RST38hit is one thing to reread config file, and completely another to kill and restart the whole thing
22:04.17JaffaRST38h: you expect sensible semantics from a rushed, botched, badly designed, closed source, low-level, proprietary Nokia piece of crapware which is crucial to the device not arbitrarily rebooting?
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22:04.38qwerty12_N800word
22:04.46GeneralAntillesEhehe
22:04.53RST38hJaffa: I no longer expect anything
22:05.06Jaffa:)
22:05.10RST38hJust looking for loopholes.
22:05.40Stskeepsonce you understand powerlaunch, its actually quite powerful :P
22:05.48Stskeepsand is a decent replacement
22:05.59lcukthought you lose your sanity in the processs.  its a balancing act
22:06.05Stskeepsyes, you do
22:06.14Stskeepswhich is why someone needs to make something alike it, but saner
22:06.16lcukwithout the t of course
22:06.39lcuki dont think theres ever been an api invented which didnt piss off someone
22:06.42GeneralAntillesIf it came with a half-dozen sane default configurations, it'd be workable.
22:06.50GeneralAntillesOh, and if it were stable.
22:07.29qwerty12_N800Configuration is fine imho, it emulates systemui in looks well but the functionality is not all there
22:07.29Stskeepsit's basically a small script language reacting to events
22:07.42Stskeepsall the magic happens in the scripts
22:09.14Stskeepsi
22:09.47Stskeepsbut i'm unsure what kind of language would be good for all the bloody many kind of events a tablet can have :P
22:10.40RST38hREXX?
22:10.42lcukscottish
22:10.59qwerty12_N800hopes ohm is a serious replacement for mce, you have *so* much daemons listening from 3rd party programmers for events on dbus so they can o something
22:11.06RST38hjava! java likes events! :E~~~~
22:11.06lcukrexx is just python before they added tabs isnt it
22:11.08qwerty12_N800s/ o/do/
22:11.51JaffaRST38h: Nah, Java has no event stuff built-in. You want C# *cough*
22:12.17RST38hyea, right! mono!
22:12.27lcukno, we need full color
22:12.49Stskeepsi really think a simple 'eval' could do the trick..
22:12.54johnxfull color? then you want LOGO!
22:12.54Stskeepsor something
22:13.07lcuknice
22:13.11RST38hcolor forth?
22:13.18lcukgo forth
22:13.29lcuk+ *
22:13.40Jaffa:)
22:13.56Stskeepsbut having python as a generic event daemon might be freakish
22:14.11johnxdbus+a giant bash script
22:14.18lcukwould be kindof sensible, python has squirreled its way into most of the system now
22:14.34qwerty12_N800python works well for certain things like the headset ;) *cough*
22:15.08lcukis it easy to make an app have a python interface (like it used to be kinda easy to add an arexx interface
22:15.15Stskeepslcuk: quite
22:15.30Stskeepswell, or embed python
22:15.49lcukpscript
22:16.27lcuki keep pondering scripting of some sort
22:16.35Stskeepsfor liqbase? :P
22:16.39Stskeeps.. libliqbase
22:16.54lcuklibliqbase is low level objects
22:17.02lcukits too dumb
22:17.14qwerty12_N800You'll make alterego cry if you ignore ruby :p
22:17.16lcukbut the higher level api looks like it might work
22:17.25lcukui
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22:22.21Stskeepsbut really.. how many event sources do we need? the buttons, dbus?
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22:23.50qwerty12_N800ke-recv is also somewhat of an event handler come think of it
22:24.56Stskeepsyeah
22:25.06Stskeepskernel events
22:25.20Stskeepsthought they removed those again though
22:26.14johnxStskeeps, besides first-boot-wizard is there something else you wanted me to work on?
22:26.29Stskeepsjohnx: it's a large step on the way to an initial image at least
22:26.56johnxSince we don't even have a clock right now I might just upload what I have without timezones
22:27.06Stskeeps*nod*
22:27.34Stskeepsit starts before hildon i guess or?
22:28.16qwerty12_N800recommends building fiferboy's clock applet. something so simple but it sure as hell increases the usefulness of the statusbar
22:28.41johnxthink I should make it part of auto-startx or separate it into another script?
22:29.12Stskeepsjohnx: good question :P
22:29.42johnxif I make it part of auto-startx then auto-startx will pull in zenity as a requirement or a recommend (if I make it only start if it's found)
22:30.32Stskeepswell, boot process should go along the lines of boot -> start X -> pop up first boot wizard -> startx as user as chosen -> hildon
22:30.41Stskeeps- i think
22:31.08johnxright, it won't work as part of a a different script :)
22:31.18johnxjust remembered that I already figured that out
22:33.27Stskeepslovely, flu epidemic rising
22:33.45Stskeepsalways good in a month with exams
22:33.54johnxin your area? all over?
22:34.10Stskeepsjust in country
22:34.57johnxwell, just wash your hands after the bus/train
22:35.24Stskeepshehe
22:36.01Stskeepsjohnx: were you in the meeting earlier per chance?
22:36.02johnxthat was the nice thing about commuting by car in the states, but my immune system got weak
22:36.11johnxnope, fraid not
22:36.16johnxthink I was briefly asleep :/
22:36.23Stskeepsliving in a 12 person dorm sure strengthes your immune defense too
22:36.31Stskeepsespecially with all the left dishes..
22:36.41johnxI got thrashed when I first moved here and started riding the train
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22:42.28Stskeepsheh, scary, we seem to have some community backing in this insane feat, johnx (http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=255204&postcount=8 )
22:43.17johnxoh man, didn't hear about the wimax thing tanking :/
22:43.18johnxsad
22:43.33Stskeepsthat said, i should probably just ask if i can borrow a n810 for experimentation from my former boss
22:43.43Stskeepsi had one at some point but my current boss took it again.. hmm
22:43.58Stskeepsgetting my work n800 back in shape should help too :P
22:44.04johnxI can probably lay hands on one in a couple months. no chance right now though
22:44.22johnx"back in shape"? did it eat too much fruit cake over christmas break?
22:44.32Stskeepsbattery went completely dead and refused to charge
22:44.37johnxeep
22:44.48Stskeepsleft it out for 24 hours and it started charging, albeit slowly
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22:44.52Stskeepsand if my office burns down, i know why
22:46.02johnxyeah, I'm surprised they released the N810WE at all
22:46.37johnxreally had high hopes for wimax *sigh*
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22:46.44Stskeepsi'm not entirely surprised though
22:46.51Stskeeps3g is exploding here in .dk for network purposes
22:47.05johnxmobile carriers in the US are vultures though
22:47.16johnxit'd be really nice to see more players in the game
22:47.25qwerty12_N800long live the next tablet with real standards
22:48.21r2d2rogersafter reading bug 943 I still want another tablet with a hard cover
22:48.22johnxwimax is a real standard, but I think the lesson is that the mobile data landscape is changing faster than product development cycles can keep up with
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22:50.20qwerty12_N800real as in widely used then. who tf gets an additional subscription to an wimax service when you already subscribe to mobile internet^H^H^H^H3g
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22:51.29johnxqwerty12_N800, if you're stuck on a crap mobile carrier in the US who has either 1) high data costs or 2) crappy coverage or 3) both
22:51.55johnxand by stuck I mean: some areas are only covered adequately by one carrier
22:53.55qwerty12_N800johnx, meh, I dunno/care about the US and it's shitty networks (but I do see the significance to Nokia as they were only sold there) but as for the rest of the world...
22:55.16johnxqwerty12_N800, yeah, all the UK carriers are on the same HSPA band, right?
22:56.10qwerty12_N800johnx, yep, also 3g band is the same all over Europe afaik
22:56.28johnxthat must be real nice
22:56.46johnxI always live in the countries with odd cell phone networks...
22:57.07qwerty12_N800hehe :p
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22:57.37johnxat least the 3G coverage here is incredible
22:57.56qwerty12_N800Japan sounds awesome
22:58.04johnxhave to climb mountains or get on a subway before I lose a strong 3G signal
22:58.18johnxbut the subway stations themselves have great coverage :)
22:58.34RST38bisthey should
22:58.59qwerty12_N800:)
22:59.23Stskeepsis london tube still a hellhole in that area?
22:59.27johnxI'm just surprised that each and every carrier co-los some equipment in every single crappy subway station in the suburbs
22:59.39lcukin what area ISNT it a hellhole?
22:59.53RST38bisit is probably made easy
23:00.44johnxI suppose so, and certain things move from possible to obvious at a certain population density
23:01.14Stskeepsheh, i was very impressed with HK's "wifi ap in every phonebooth"
23:01.14johnxoooh, video of the SGX rendering things on a beagleboard
23:01.23Jaffalcuk: indeed
23:01.59JaffaTfL (Transport for London) have announced there are going to be mobile phone repeaters in (some) Tube stations
23:02.01lcukit was like descending into the pits of hell, the only experience of london i didnt like
23:02.33johnxhttp://openpandora.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/3d-driver-in-action-on-the-beagleboard/
23:02.43milhouseJaffa: I wish they wouldn't, sometimes it's the only peace & quiet you can get! :)
23:02.43qwerty12_N800just hates the long escalators
23:02.44JaffaAlthough, compared with the West Coast Main Line over the last week, the Metropolitan/Circle/Hammersmith & City lines are fine
23:03.43Stskeepsmm, i'd like to see london again, think it was in 97 or something i saw it last
23:03.54lcukomg clutter is just as jerky - WTF is wrong with it if it cant render simple things quickly?
23:04.10johnxI wouldn't mind traveling around UK and EU in general
23:04.12lcuki mean, they manage a nice high fill rate and lots of polys
23:04.27lcukahhh its general framerate
23:06.36lcukmm
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23:07.02johnxthose demos are actually kind of impressive
23:07.48johnxand I imagine clutter will have to get some specific optimizations now that it's stabilizing in terms of development
23:07.51lcukyeah the full 3d ones were, but clutter had 2 actors
23:08.04lcukand those were controlled by box2d
23:08.22milhouseStill just demos of a beagelboard though - the Nokia hardware team will still manage to fck up the video on the next tablet device.... ;)
23:08.38johnxprobably not this time
23:08.45johnxit's all on one chip :)
23:08.53milhouseThey'll find a way....
23:08.59johnxas long as they don't solder it on backwards
23:09.07lcukcan still get the connectors wrong
23:09.09lcukheh
23:09.12johnxnah, they'll get video right but I hold out no hope for the d-pad
23:10.23lcukhttp://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=24TXpqa9jG0&feature=related
23:10.33lcukthats a better powervr omap3 demo
23:11.03johnxthose are the old drivers though. that new video was the just released drivers :)
23:11.05Stskeepsjohnx: i think mer post-first-boot-wizard would need the following: an xterm (with HIM), hildon-control-panel in image, some degree of connectivity (i dont really care which as long as it works), installer working, libhildon providing libhildon-1-0 or whatever ubuntu hildon is (so we can use the -hildon packages in ubuntu); maybe building some things in extras
23:11.10johnxthe ones that will ship to pandora/beagle users
23:11.24Stskeepsjohnx: think that's based on nokia drivers
23:11.27Stskeepsthe first video
23:11.57qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, rxvt + xkbd :p
23:12.04johnxbut with the SGX binary from ImgTech, right?
23:12.28johnxStskeeps, "first-boot-wizard" needs all of this or just the next release?
23:12.38johnxah, misread
23:12.38johnxnm
23:12.40Stskeepsjohnx: 0.7
23:12.47Stskeeps0.6 will have first-boot-wizard
23:13.10johnxalrght, let me clean up first-boot-wizard and push it
23:14.03Stskeepsalso we need a way to change themes sanely :P
23:16.28*** join/#maemo tehforum (n=user@80-195-162-226.cable.ubr03.smal.blueyonder.co.uk)
23:16.36Proteoussanity is overratted
23:16.41Proteousrated
23:16.42tehforumHi
23:16.45tehforumWow
23:16.51tehforumIrc on my tablet
23:16.53tehforumcool.
23:17.00johnxxchat or irssi?
23:17.06tehforumPidgin
23:17.14GeneralAntillesTry XChat
23:17.18johnxah, if you're gonna do a lot of IRC try xchat
23:17.19GeneralAntillesIt's much nicer than Pidgin for IRC
23:17.22tehforumHey G.A
23:17.29tehforumA familar name
23:17.55tehforumI only found out how to use IRC a few minutes ago
23:18.01Stskeepsjohnx: oh! and hildon application manager
23:18.10johnxStskeeps, gah. do we have to?
23:18.13Stskeeps:P
23:18.23qwerty12_N800Has anyone actually used that irssi package in -devell come think of it?
23:18.30qwerty12_N800-l
23:18.32tehforumHey qwerty
23:18.40Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: until xterm has text completion..
23:18.40qwerty12_N800hi tehforum
23:18.41tehforumThanks for solving my lock code problem
23:18.51qwerty12_N800np :)
23:19.16tehforumSo i got really frightened yesterday
23:19.23tehforumI took out my battery
23:19.33qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, heh, I've had text completion in xterm, didn't work well...
23:19.48tehforumCleaned the inside, and when i put it on charge and switched the tablet on
23:20.02Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: re xchat build, you probably need to run autogen.sh or 'libtoolize --force --copy' in rules somewhere
23:20.07tehforumThe display wouldn't "show" but the keyboard did light up
23:20.25tehforumSo i was like "crap", and thought my display was broken
23:20.39tehforumBut after a few more restarts the nokia logo comes on
23:20.45qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, will make a note of that thanks
23:20.48tehforumSo thats good
23:20.48Stskeepswoo
23:20.54Stskeepsmaemopad compiles on mer scratchbox sdk!
23:21.14tehforumI never knew there would be so many people on the maemo channel
23:21.14johnxawesome! that's the most maemo-ized package I can think of actually
23:21.31tehforumHas anyone tried mypaint?
23:21.48qwerty12_N800what about maemopad+? :D
23:22.40johnxqwerty12_N800, I think the packaging is more sane in the + version IIRC
23:23.03*** join/#maemo borism_ (n=boris@195-50-200-224-dsl.krw.estpak.ee)
23:23.31Stskeepsi think (scaringily), that pymaemo will be our worst part
23:23.56tehforumWho's the sheriff in the room?
23:24.06tehforumChanServ
23:24.13johnxdon't have one I think
23:24.25qwerty12_N800johnx, most likely is - with things like maemo-icon-26 being employed etc, i think maemopad is an maemo-examples app so more likely to be tested in sbox
23:25.31tehforumDoes anyone know how to use aircrack?
23:25.32Stskeepswonders idly why gstreamer source is in extras
23:25.33johnxqwerty12_N800, for some reason I was remembering something about it that made it never work outside sbox...might be making it up
23:26.02Stskeepsat least we test it on non-scratchbox and in-scratchbox when we build stuff
23:26.47qwerty12_N800johnx, no idea, I've never actually ran it once even inside sbox or on the tablets :)
23:27.43johnxs/made it/made building it from source
23:28.24qwerty12_N800tehforum, dunno about using it to the full potential but I just feed it a dump from kismet
23:29.24qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, to be able to pick and mix certain gstreamer plugins that nokia don't build afaik - like ogg
23:29.26tehforumhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23333
23:29.36tehforumI need to sniff out some packets.
23:29.53Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: mm, i'm not touching sound until we have some kind of agreement to distribute complete firmware images :P
23:30.10Stskeepsreally don't want to rely on a /mnt/rootfs trick
23:30.19qwerty12_N800:)
23:30.22johnxcrosses his fingers for non-dsp sound
23:30.36tehforum*One year anniversary*
23:31.27tehforumOf having this tablet.
23:31.28*** join/#maemo johnnyjohnjohn (n=magicboo@75.45.120.94)
23:31.49tehforumIts only failed twice. :)
23:31.52qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, applets i have to see is the statusbar clock & advanced power (after getting pymaemo working :p)
23:32.27Stskeepsstatusbar clock is C or python?
23:32.37qwerty12_N800C
23:32.53Stskeepsk
23:33.21Stskeepsjohnx: re wimax comment, think we have the reason why there was hints "giggling was heard inside nokia hqs when wimax edition was mentioned" :P
23:33.37tehforumLol
23:36.50StskeepsMeiz_n810: can you investigate if you can find any of the "alternative" non-NetworkManager applets that does wifi connectivity?
23:36.56Stskeepsthat actually work
23:37.31tehforumDoes anyone know a good file manager? Except for the one installed already?
23:37.36alteregoI really want a beagle board now. Though the exchange rate from GBP to USD is pretty damn poor at the moment.
23:37.53tehforumDamn right
23:37.56alteregotehforum: ls, mv, rm, cp
23:38.11johnxalterego, still cheaper than anything else out there for the power it has...
23:38.13tehforum$7 = £4.52
23:38.13alteregoOh, and cd, pwd :)
23:38.46StskeepsMeiz_n810: maybe 'wicd'
23:39.13tehforumMc or gpe file manager?
23:39.35qwerty12_N800emelfm2 isn't bad
23:39.39tehforumI like the cd command
23:39.56tehforumI'll try that then
23:40.07alteregoLooks like it's going up though, which is good :)
23:40.10tehforumCd /media/mmc1
23:40.14alteregoI'm going to wait a week and see what happens.
23:40.17alteregohttp://www.x-rates.com/d/USD/GBP/graph120.html
23:40.25qwerty12_N800Cd not found ;p
23:40.29tehforumLol
23:40.37tehforumAuto capitalization
23:40.47alteregoHeh
23:40.48tehforumToo much of a good thing is a bad thing
23:40.55qwerty12_N800In xchat, you don't get that :p
23:41.00alteregoI didn't think auto caps worked in the terminal ..
23:41.04tehforumEspecially with case sensitive stuff in xterm
23:41.14alteregoI meant, _didn't_ work in the terminal ..
23:41.15tehforumI'm not sure though
23:41.24tehforumLets put it to the test
23:41.58*** join/#maemo alextreme (n=alex@82-171-161-1.ip.telfort.nl)
23:42.04qwerty12_N800alterego, thank god :) but it isn't hard to enable - a one line change to libvte
23:42.16alterego:)
23:42.35tehforumTheres a shift option
23:42.45alteregoJust got back from the pub, did a pub quiz . AND WON A MEAL FOR TWO!
23:42.50tehforumSo yeah
23:42.53tehforum:@
23:42.57alteregoEnded on 66 points the 2nd place got 53 :D
23:43.08qwerty12_N800alterego, wicked :D
23:43.12alteregoYup
23:43.19Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: we should get osso-xterm to work with ubuntu vte or something :P
23:43.29tehforumTry and beat the eggheads
23:43.32tehforumBbc2
23:43.34alteregolibvte-ruby ftw :P
23:43.45qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, it's what I kept suggesting ;)
23:44.01Stskeepsalterego: are you staying close to ubuntu ruby package names? please say you do
23:44.07alteregoWhat does osso-xterm use at the moment?
23:44.14qwerty12_N800libvte4
23:44.16alteregoStskeeps: yes, pretty close.
23:44.21Stskeepsalterego: thank god.
23:44.23alteregoIn fact, almost identical.
23:44.29tehforumOh, the emelfm2 is chinook,
23:44.32Stskeepshas been dealing with pymaemo today
23:44.37Stskeepson mer, as part of work
23:44.41Stskeepsthat was an interesting experience
23:44.59alteregoThe only difference is the ruby1.8-dev package which I call libruby1.8-dev
23:45.14Stskeepsadd in a "Provides: ruby1.8-dev" if you can
23:45.26alteregoYeah, it's ubuntu that is wrong though.
23:45.31alteregoubuntu/debian
23:45.32johnxStskeeps, it's a good thing you're doing it as part of work. sounds too frustrating to be part of the personal time you put into this
23:45.49alteregoubuntu has a package: libruby1.8-dbg
23:45.51alteregowtf?!
23:46.11johnxgotta pick and choose your battles
23:46.30Stskeepsalterego: debug package++
23:46.42*** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at)
23:46.50alteregoStskeeps: ubuntu does: libruby1.8-dbg and ruby1.8-dev.
23:46.53Stskeepsheh
23:46.54Stskeepssilly
23:46.57alteregoWhich is b*llsh*t
23:47.11alteregoAgain, ubuntu/debian :)
23:47.18alteregoSo my dev package is named libruby not ruby ..
23:47.33alteregoMainly because you don't need to install the interpreter to develop libraries.
23:48.43qwerty12_N800cdBS, hehe...
23:48.52alteregoOh, I also have a 'erb1.8' package which debian/ubuntu don't have.
23:49.13johnxif they don't have it it doesn't conflict so that's ok
23:49.57alteregoWell, the executable that my package provides, I /think/ is in the ruby1.8 package .. Though it could be in the irb1.8 package.
23:50.06qwerty12_N800Is erb a part of any other package in debian/ubuntu
23:50.11qwerty12_N800nvr mind
23:51.17alteregoOh, I have extras access now :) So I'll be uploading packages this weekend :)
23:51.20alteregoOr before, :)
23:51.36qwerty12_N800whee :)
23:51.45alteregoDoes Mer have an autobuilder yet? ;)
23:51.52tehforumFor what
23:51.59tehforumMay i ask
23:52.03alteregotehforum: ruby-maemo ;)
23:52.11alteregotehforum: http://blog.rubyx.co.uk/
23:52.45*** join/#maemo StsN800 (n=user@84.238.94.136)
23:53.25tehforumNice
23:53.34tehforumBig project?
23:53.40*** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at)
23:53.43alteregoFairly.
23:53.52alteregoIt's the ruby equivalent of pymaemo I guess.
23:54.14qwerty12_N800alterego, like Jaffa said (I think), a single ruby meta package in user/ that installs the minimum to run most ruby apps would be nice. pymaemo's method of installing it is a little odd :/
23:54.15alteregoBetter language, though slightly less maemo oriented features at the moment as I've not put in as many hours.
23:54.46alteregoqwerty12_N800: yeah. I'm hearing what everyone is saying. But I'm still not convinced ;)
23:54.58alteregoI want application devs to depend on the packages they depend on.
23:55.12alteregoIf they need full Gtk/Hildon then depend on hildon1-ruby1.8
23:55.36alteregoosso: libosso-ruby1.8 etc.
23:55.38Stskeepsalterego: its not really an autobuilder but it woeks. jaiku.com/channel/merbuilder
23:57.47*** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at)
23:58.14alteregoStskeeps: I'd quite like to help with the Mer project. What kinds of things need to be done?
23:59.11Stskeepsalterego: well, contribution will soon be easier once we finish the initial image.
23:59.30alteregoPresumably you're working on a scratchbox rootfs?
23:59.45Stskeepsyou can grab armel sdk at
23:59.53Stskeeps~mer
23:59.54infobotextra, extra, read all about it, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint
23:59.58alteregoWill maemo.org be hosting repositories for you?

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