| 00:01.54 | *** join/#maemo alterego (n=tswindel@88-110-100-184.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 00:02.16 | *** join/#maemo Grackle (n=Alex@227-230.suscom-maine.net) |
| 00:06.15 | *** join/#maemo Navimaster (n=navimast@pool-68-160-111-24.nwrk.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:06.18 | Navimaster | Hey guys |
| 00:06.20 | Navimaster | I got a quick question |
| 00:06.31 | lcuk | starts the clock |
| 00:06.31 | Navimaster | I want to update my nokia |
| 00:06.43 | Navimaster | using the nokia update software |
| 00:06.57 | Navimaster | Can I leave the adapter plugged in while its updating? |
| 00:07.03 | Navimaster | cause i dont think it has enough battery power |
| 00:07.05 | tank-man | sure |
| 00:07.10 | Navimaster | alright thanks |
| 00:07.14 | lcuk | instructions are clear : have a fully charged up battery and disconnect the charger |
| 00:07.22 | Navimaster | lol |
| 00:07.26 | Navimaster | I know thats why my question |
| 00:07.31 | Navimaster | can i or not? |
| 00:07.45 | lcuk | this is the internet - dont believe anything without checking : my answer is veryfiable with the documentation |
| 00:07.57 | Navimaster | ok.. |
| 00:07.59 | lcuk | verifiable |
| 00:08.21 | tank-man | if unpluging it can damage it, i would be very disappointed in nokia |
| 00:08.42 | Navimaster | I just wanna know if I can have the adapter plugged in while its flashing/updating |
| 00:08.46 | Navimaster | anyone? |
| 00:09.35 | tank-man | what made you ask this question? |
| 00:09.42 | SHADOW__X | how much battery life do you have now |
| 00:09.49 | Navimaster | I was downloading and |
| 00:09.57 | Navimaster | (diablo update) |
| 00:10.03 | SHADOW__X | i say do it whats the worst that can happen you brick it |
| 00:10.05 | SHADOW__X | ? |
| 00:10.06 | Navimaster | and the screen turned to black and it didnt update |
| 00:10.13 | Navimaster | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:10.19 | SHADOW__X | hmm |
| 00:10.23 | Navimaster | so I thought, maybe i should plug the adapter |
| 00:10.24 | SHADOW__X | or you need to reslash |
| 00:10.40 | SHADOW__X | plug it in and wait to see if the charging screen comes up |
| 00:10.43 | SHADOW__X | and go from there |
| 00:10.51 | tank-man | so what you are saying is you have gone thru 1 failed update attempt? |
| 00:11.03 | Navimaster | yes and possibly because the battery life went to 0 or something |
| 00:11.09 | Navimaster | so I'm wondering if I can just plug the adapter and update |
| 00:11.23 | Navimaster | but the instructions make it difficult |
| 00:11.27 | Navimaster | cause it says to disconnect it |
| 00:11.28 | Navimaster | why? |
| 00:12.11 | tank-man | is that the part where you have to turn it off? |
| 00:12.21 | Navimaster | no... |
| 00:12.29 | Navimaster | It was downloading from the Nokia Software Updater |
| 00:12.35 | Navimaster | from my PC to nokia (usb connection) |
| 00:12.42 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@200-168-20-4.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 00:12.48 | Navimaster | it was going to be done but the screen on my nokia turned off (battery probably) |
| 00:12.57 | Navimaster | and it interrupted the process |
| 00:13.09 | lcuk | then you hadnt followed instructions the first time ? |
| 00:13.26 | Navimaster | I did but my connection disconnected like 35131 times |
| 00:13.26 | lcuk | 3. Make sure the battery of your tablet is fully charged. |
| 00:13.28 | Navimaster | so I had to redo it |
| 00:13.44 | Navimaster | but my question is if I can use the charger or not |
| 00:14.35 | tank-man | easy answer is follow the instructions :) |
| 00:14.52 | Navimaster | ok |
| 00:14.58 | Navimaster | well |
| 00:15.05 | Navimaster | I was going to anyway, just making sure. |
| 00:15.33 | *** join/#maemo ccooke (n=ccooke@spc1-walt10-0-0-cust85.asfd.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 00:15.51 | GAN800 | Running out of battery power during an update or connecting/disconnecting a connected charger during an update CAN RESULT IN AN UNRECOVERABLE TABLET. |
| 00:17.42 | Navimaster | well I'm recharging my tablet |
| 00:17.48 | Navimaster | so it can be full for when i redo the update |
| 00:43.06 | *** join/#maemo housetier (n=housetie@unaffiliated/housetier) |
| 01:03.37 | *** join/#maemo gentooer (n=asdfsf@pool-72-90-138-252.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:04.25 | *** join/#maemo chandoo (n=chandoo@ool-4353bb46.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 01:06.02 | *** join/#maemo gopi (n=gopi@adsl-69-232-223-27.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 01:32.11 | *** join/#maemo tulkastaldo (n=tulkas@24-247-227-10.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com) |
| 01:49.05 | *** join/#maemo housetier (n=housetie@unaffiliated/housetier) |
| 02:00.03 | *** join/#maemo TrueJournals (n=User@c-67-173-67-77.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 02:05.31 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth_ (n=dforsyth@pool-71-191-243-225.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 02:10.21 | *** join/#maemo Kurtis318 (n=Kurtis31@97-86-228-50.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 02:13.22 | Kurtis318 | has anyone been able to get google chat working with the default brows? |
| 02:14.05 | Kurtis318 | oops, default browser |
| 02:14.18 | johnx | the default browser? I just use the default chat client... |
| 02:15.33 | Kurtis318 | can you use it to send sms msgs? |
| 02:15.41 | johnx | aah, good point |
| 02:15.45 | johnx | I think there's a trick |
| 02:15.56 | TrueJournals | +1xxxyyyzzzz@sms.talk.google.com |
| 02:16.03 | johnx | thank you TrueJournals :D |
| 02:16.10 | johnx | that's the trick |
| 02:16.19 | TrueJournals | No problem |
| 02:16.22 | lcuk | thats US only isnt it |
| 02:16.30 | TrueJournals | Yup |
| 02:16.30 | lcuk | cos you guys pay to recv? |
| 02:16.42 | TrueJournals | lcuk: Depends on the cell plan you have |
| 02:16.54 | TrueJournals | Text messages are RIDICULOUSLY expensive |
| 02:16.57 | lcuk | over here we pay to send, the person gettin it has it for free |
| 02:17.28 | Kurtis318 | great news, will give it a try |
| 02:18.35 | johnx | lcuk, yes. like any sane system should be |
| 02:19.15 | lcuk | well, for the qty of actual data its still insane |
| 02:19.22 | johnx | I do wonder what happens if you prefix the phone number there with an international dialing code :) |
| 02:19.48 | TrueJournals | Very interesting article on the subject of expensive text messages: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/28/business/28digi.html |
| 02:19.58 | johnx | if there was real competition between cell phone providers it would probably be free |
| 02:20.34 | lcuk | well thats what your contract makes it really, they *do* have to pay employees and buy stock and stuff |
| 02:20.34 | GAN800 | lcuk, it's free for them, as it's sent on a sideband anyway |
| 02:21.10 | lcuk | however, on general principle i will say: a pair price for a fair service |
| 02:21.32 | Kurtis318 | i have 2 19 year old girls that average about 10,000 texts per month. we have unlimited texting |
| 02:21.32 | johnx | lcuk, I mean if there was real competition they'd be charging for the things that cost money and figuring out how to give out any value adds they could afford |
| 02:22.39 | johnx | Kurtis318, O_o I don't even think my younger sister hits much over 1,000 |
| 02:22.43 | lcuk | of course johnx, but most users until recently never used that many texts |
| 02:23.07 | GAN800 | Kurtis318, they must text 24/7 |
| 02:23.08 | lcuk | johnx, im over phonewire :: think gossiping girls |
| 02:23.19 | lcuk | 10k is probably normal |
| 02:23.26 | GAN800 | Hardly |
| 02:23.26 | lcuk | think how many irc lines you push out in a month |
| 02:23.45 | lcuk | depending on the crowd and handsets its very easy |
| 02:23.49 | johnx | lcuk, I dunno about in the UK, but in the US the price of text messages got doubled from 10c to 20c recently...all across the board |
| 02:23.53 | lcuk | and with full qwerty and computerlike experience |
| 02:24.01 | johnx | highly doubt they have qwerty phones |
| 02:24.05 | GAN800 | My sister pushes only about 1200 a month and is pretty much texting all the time |
| 02:24.05 | johnx | those are for geeks like us |
| 02:24.14 | lcuk | iphone |
| 02:24.28 | GAN800 | iPhone isn't much faster than T9 |
| 02:24.30 | lcuk | twitter |
| 02:24.34 | TrueJournals | I'd just like to throw in that my sister who is by all means NOT a geek has a phone with a qwerty keyboard |
| 02:24.59 | lcuk | tj, its getting more normal now |
| 02:25.05 | GAN800 | LG has a new qwerty handset that everybody seems to have purchased |
| 02:25.12 | GAN800 | As does Samsung, actually |
| 02:25.19 | johnx | ah, I'm missing western trends these days. update me from early 2007 :) |
| 02:25.36 | *** join/#maemo cjdavis (n=cjdavis@WS-ESR2-74-215-74-82.fuse.net) |
| 02:25.51 | *** part/#maemo cjdavis (n=cjdavis@WS-ESR2-74-215-74-82.fuse.net) |
| 02:25.53 | lcuk | i thought you would be ahead of the trend |
| 02:25.57 | pupnik | openjazz engine (to play Jazz Jackrabbit) should be an easy port to ITOS |
| 02:26.09 | GAN800 | Maemo. :P |
| 02:26.20 | lcuk | liqos |
| 02:26.25 | GAN800 | emacs |
| 02:26.29 | lcuk | lol |
| 02:26.41 | lcuk | i think thats the first time ive suggeste3d it like that :P |
| 02:27.04 | GAN800 | 3d? Freudian slip? ;) |
| 02:27.06 | johnx | lcuk, I don't think that this is the "real" future here, just a possible future. It's all numeric phones with a certain contingent of iphone users |
| 02:27.11 | Kurtis318 | i am waiting for sprint to figure out how much money they are loosing on unlimited text service |
| 02:27.22 | lcuk | 0 |
| 02:27.32 | lcuk | as gan said, its a sidechannel to voice |
| 02:27.41 | GAN800 | It doesn't cost them anything to sent texts |
| 02:27.44 | TrueJournals | Yeah, text messages really don't cost carriers anything |
| 02:27.47 | GAN800 | s/sent/send/ |
| 02:28.08 | lcuk | you are paying them a fixed monthly fee and their usage is no way able to overload anything |
| 02:28.26 | Proteous | well, when you are talking about millions of texts in a dense populated area it can start to clog up the control channel |
| 02:28.29 | TrueJournals | " But text messages are not just tiny; they are also free riders, tucked into whatâs called a control channel, space reserved for operation of the wireless network. ... The channel uses space whether or not a text message is inserted." |
| 02:28.37 | lcuk | its not quite the same as broadband overuse |
| 02:29.01 | Proteous | the control channel also has to take care of initiating and ending calls |
| 02:29.17 | johnx | Proteous, has that ever become a problem in the real world? |
| 02:29.18 | Proteous | so when it gets laggy things can start to freak out |
| 02:29.30 | Proteous | johnx, have you ever tried to place a call and had it just fail? |
| 02:29.36 | lcuk | Proteous, sending a text from one phone cannot jam the lines, but just like now - london midnight new years, the phone system cannot cope with billions of texts from billions of users all at the same time |
| 02:29.37 | Proteous | that's what happens |
| 02:29.46 | lcuk | (reduce by factors as required) |
| 02:30.09 | Proteous | I'm not saying that the phone companies are right in charging ludacris ammounts :P |
| 02:30.15 | Proteous | just saying that there is a limit |
| 02:30.24 | johnx | interesting. We have really small "cells" here so I guess it's not as big a problem |
| 02:30.26 | GAN800 | Proteous, a few times when I had almost no signal. :P |
| 02:30.40 | Proteous | yeah, it depends a lot on that too |
| 02:30.50 | Proteous | in my town ATT doesn't have very many cells |
| 02:30.58 | GAN800 | Stupid plaster and lead paint house. |
| 02:31.03 | johnx | with big cells it would be a nightmare here O_o |
| 02:31.06 | Proteous | chicken wire is the worst |
| 02:31.17 | Proteous | the stuff they put down under stucko |
| 02:31.25 | johnx | GAN800, lulz. think mine's a steal frame :P |
| 02:31.32 | lcuk | Proteous, but still, you are one user, your fingers cannot physically type fast enough to jam up the lines of an entire phone company |
| 02:31.52 | GAN800 | lcuk, don't tempt him. :D |
| 02:32.07 | Proteous | add in a teathered n810 and anything is possible!! MUHAHAHAHAA |
| 02:32.20 | lcuk | no cos then you are on a different channel |
| 02:32.48 | Proteous | I can autosend texts from my phone with my n810 through bluetooth |
| 02:33.08 | johnx | or send them programatically :) |
| 02:33.12 | Proteous | exactly |
| 02:33.24 | lcuk | go for it, remember there is only as much bandwidth in the cell packet as would normally go |
| 02:33.40 | Proteous | don't worry, I'm not going to do it |
| 02:33.41 | lcuk | it wont send bigger packets |
| 02:34.18 | Proteous | lcuk, no one is saying that one person alone could take down the system with just texts messages |
| 02:34.32 | johnx | one person, many phones |
| 02:34.36 | Proteous | well, unless those are exploit texts and you have a vunerable s60 phone |
| 02:34.40 | TrueJournals | Actually... I'm curious about the whole "not being able to make a call" argument... |
| 02:34.42 | lcuk | many contracts |
| 02:34.51 | lcuk | much money, im sure the phone company will be happy |
| 02:35.01 | johnx | TrueJournals, no space on the control channel, no way to make a call initiation request |
| 02:35.16 | lcuk | that sounds like the voice of experience |
| 02:35.17 | TrueJournals | The NY Times article says " The channel uses space whether or not a text message is inserted." which makes it sound like there's extra space on the channel for a text message whether or not one is there |
| 02:35.33 | lcuk | johnx, have you got any grass in your backgarden? |
| 02:35.41 | johnx | lcuk, ahahaha |
| 02:36.20 | johnx | TrueJournals, but text messages and call initiation requests share that space |
| 02:36.36 | Proteous | http://blog.clintecker.com/post/67253912/what-carriers-arent-eager-to-tell-you-about-texting-or |
| 02:36.49 | Proteous | RF engineer blog about the issue |
| 02:37.53 | TrueJournals | Yeah, that makes it sound more like a text message would TAKE UP the control channel |
| 02:38.15 | johnx | lcuk, I live in an apartment building the size of a normal two story house. it has 6 apartments. the "back garden" is a cement walkway :) |
| 02:38.20 | TrueJournals | The NY Times article (to me) seems to more imply that they can share the channel |
| 02:38.26 | TrueJournals | (at the same time) |
| 02:38.41 | johnx | right, and the RF blog is addressing the NYT article :) |
| 02:38.54 | TrueJournals | Regardless... 20 cents is NOT the price one should pay for that :-P |
| 02:39.14 | johnx | 100% agreed |
| 02:39.46 | TrueJournals | I understand charging for texts, but... 5 cents is reasonable... 20 cents is not |
| 02:39.49 | johnx | if there was competition it would probably be free, and they'd just make up the cost somewhere else |
| 02:40.10 | lcuk | johnx, you got the idea at least ;) btw, have you still got your whistle |
| 02:40.53 | johnx | whistle? |
| 02:41.09 | lcuk | yeah, 2600 hz one |
| 02:42.03 | johnx | ah. heh :P |
| 02:42.12 | johnx | even the payphones here are ISDN :D |
| 02:42.28 | johnx | whistles down the ethernet line |
| 02:42.41 | lcuk | does explain why its in http://obsoleteskills.com/Skills/Whistling2600Hz |
| 02:42.49 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth (n=dforsyth@pool-71-191-243-225.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 02:43.32 | lcuk | wow, that site is cool |
| 02:46.15 | Kurtis318 | another question, can you tell i'm new, i try to play avi movies some work, some don't. can someone explain why? |
| 02:46.41 | johnx | AVI is a container. the video inside can be encoded in many ways. |
| 02:46.45 | Kurtis318 | or how i can conver,them |
| 02:47.00 | johnx | what kind of desktop computer are you on? PC, Mac, Linux? |
| 02:47.09 | Kurtis318 | linux |
| 02:47.38 | johnx | http://wiki.maemo.org/Video_encoding |
| 02:47.47 | johnx | guess I should have just linked that to begin with :) |
| 02:47.57 | johnx | tablet-encode is very nice. |
| 02:49.45 | johnx | and mplayer is recommended as well |
| 02:51.36 | Kurtis318 | johnx, thanks. looking at wiki now |
| 02:59.10 | lcuk | anyone know how i send an x11 window to the back? |
| 02:59.45 | *** part/#maemo Kurtis318 (n=Kurtis31@97-86-228-50.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 03:01.15 | johnx | can't help you directly, but if you google, search for "raise" and "lower" not "back" and "front" |
| 03:02.30 | lcuk | i just did - i found the inverse in code and followed via there, thanks tho :) |
| 03:03.37 | TrueJournals | Hooray for words! |
| 03:04.19 | TrueJournals | How about we make a programming language where you can use keywords, and synonyms for the keywords? :-P |
| 03:04.28 | TrueJournals | Forget function -- "bunch_of_commands" |
| 03:06.22 | johnx | ok, that would be awesome. it should have some exact synonyms and some functions that do kind of the same thing |
| 03:06.54 | johnx | and should be interpreted slightly differently on regionally different interpreters |
| 03:07.14 | TrueJournals | OK... you get to work on that... let me know when it's done :-P |
| 03:07.30 | johnx | done |
| 03:07.40 | johnx | I call it "spoken and written human language" |
| 03:07.45 | TrueJournals | lol |
| 03:09.01 | *** join/#maemo sin18 (n=sin18@pool-71-100-21-253.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 03:10.15 | johnx | huh...I wonder if anyone had an n8x0 crash on the leap second |
| 03:19.58 | TrueJournals | Can the NITdroid kernel boot into maemo? |
| 03:22.48 | johnx | I would bet against it |
| 03:23.03 | johnx | what I think people are working on is using kexec to just run Nokia's kernel |
| 03:24.42 | TrueJournals | Bah, I don't want to deal with that :-P |
| 03:25.22 | *** join/#maemo lpotter_ (n=lpotter@58.173.176.153) |
| 03:26.46 | TrueJournals | Well, talk to you guys later.. bye |
| 03:26.53 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (n=pcfe@a88-115-23-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 03:33.28 | *** join/#maemo b-man (n=b-man@pool-71-124-106-242.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 03:48.36 | *** join/#maemo herzi (n=herzi@p578EBB3B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 03:58.09 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@cpc1-oldh7-0-0-cust232.manc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 03:58.20 | *** join/#maemo Toba (n=eastein@pysoy/developer/EricStein) |
| 03:58.25 | Toba | I'm going nuts |
| 03:58.34 | alterego | is nutz |
| 03:58.38 | Toba | I compiled the arm-hello script in the scratchbox howto |
| 03:59.06 | Toba | and I got it onto my n810 and when I do ./arm-hello it says '-sh: ./arm-hello: not found' |
| 03:59.19 | Toba | it's chmod +x and it even auto-completes the filename for me |
| 03:59.45 | alterego | sounds like you compiled it with the wrong toolchain. |
| 04:01.28 | Toba | http://des.truct.org/tmp/compile.png |
| 04:01.30 | lcuk | *script* is your shebang thing right |
| 04:01.40 | Toba | it's a c program, man |
| 04:02.39 | *** join/#maemo Ivan_Chelubeev (n=ijon@ppp85-140-188-165.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) |
| 04:03.01 | *** part/#maemo Ivan_Chelubeev (n=ijon@ppp85-140-188-165.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) |
| 04:03.06 | Toba | alterego: is this wrong? |
| 04:03.25 | Toba | the exact compiler that the tutorial says to use isn't there, as I used the deb repositories |
| 04:04.17 | lcuk | since all the path to gcc is normally not required i would say you went wrong somewhere by specifying one on the console |
| 04:04.38 | lcuk | either you are not inside a scratchbox user, or the toolchain is not setup correctly |
| 04:04.56 | alterego | God, it's 4am .. |
| 04:05.04 | lcuk | 404 actually |
| 04:05.15 | alterego | 4:05 :P |
| 04:05.19 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@cpc1-oldh7-0-0-cust232.manc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 04:07.38 | alterego | I should definitely go to bed soon .. |
| 04:08.12 | Toba | http://des.truct.org/tmp/scratchbox-installed.png |
| 04:08.29 | Toba | is this completely wrong? it's pretty frustrating trying to make scratchbox actually work |
| 04:08.37 | Toba | run_me_first.sh isn't even *there* |
| 04:08.51 | lcuk | ive only been through it once to have a glance at m5 |
| 04:09.05 | lcuk | i do all dev directly on the tablet |
| 04:09.11 | alterego | Heh |
| 04:09.27 | alterego | Toba: you could download the vmware appliance. |
| 04:09.41 | lcuk | alterego, did you see the app launcher idea |
| 04:09.41 | Toba | my vmware license shot itself |
| 04:09.48 | lcuk | free player |
| 04:09.51 | alterego | lcuk? |
| 04:09.57 | lcuk | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=253958 |
| 04:10.47 | lcuk | i've followed some of the thoughts from the maemo ui improvement blog and am bringing them into liqbase type thinking :) |
| 04:10.49 | alterego | Awesome :) |
| 04:11.05 | Toba | lcuk: ahhhhh my eyes burn |
| 04:11.10 | alterego | You run the maemo ui improv. blog? |
| 04:11.33 | johnx | Toba, another vote for try just 'gcc' without the path. that error you got on the tablet is usually from trying to run an ELF executable that's not quite the right arch |
| 04:11.40 | lcuk | no, a guy called Andrew Zhilin (wazd) |
| 04:11.49 | Toba | on the maemo? |
| 04:12.25 | alterego | Ah, yes. I didn't think it was you :P |
| 04:12.28 | Toba | Nokia-N810-51-3-Arkenstone:~# gcc hello.c |
| 04:12.28 | Toba | hello.c:1:20: stdio.h: No such file or directory |
| 04:12.29 | lcuk | toba, too much information for you? if you have seen liqbase you will see the grid and elements are resizable and you can set comfortable resolution :) |
| 04:12.37 | lcuk | on the graffitiwall |
| 04:12.38 | Toba | oh, lcuk I see. |
| 04:12.49 | *** join/#maemo _acyd_ (n=acydlord@97-117-176-110.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 04:12.57 | Toba | I don't have more than another 24megs free on / on my n810 |
| 04:12.58 | lcuk | its all been completely fluid and dynamic up to this point |
| 04:13.03 | Toba | so I can't really install more things easily |
| 04:13.10 | Toba | without worrying about running out. |
| 04:13.12 | johnx | 24M is plenty :) |
| 04:13.35 | alterego | Not if he's installing build-essential it's not :P |
| 04:13.41 | Toba | all I am really trying to do is compile this: https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=687 |
| 04:13.51 | Toba | I want to open pdf files from a shell script |
| 04:14.05 | Toba | in osso_pdfviewer |
| 04:14.08 | lcuk | what are you guys smoking, i do full dev with lots of -dev libraries installed and still have room for other apps (sometimes :$) |
| 04:14.25 | alterego | shudders. |
| 04:14.32 | alterego | I don't know where I'd be without my scratchbox :P |
| 04:14.48 | johnx | Toba, why are you trying to compile outside of scratchbox? |
| 04:14.58 | Toba | because scratchbox doesn't want to work for me |
| 04:15.19 | lcuk | my mind shudders at the recursion, i prefer things simple |
| 04:15.39 | Toba | i'm installing vmware-player on my desktop as was suggested |
| 04:15.45 | johnx | lcuk, sometimes in order for things to be simple, they have to be really complex :) |
| 04:15.54 | alterego | You could do it using dbus-send Toba |
| 04:15.59 | Toba | ...how easy would it be? |
| 04:16.18 | alterego | Fairly easy. |
| 04:16.19 | johnx | actually, here's a better idea: want me to just compile that for you Toba? |
| 04:16.27 | alterego | :D |
| 04:16.40 | alterego | I'm not sure that's a better idea johnx :P |
| 04:16.44 | Toba | i'm not either |
| 04:16.46 | Toba | i may have to patch it |
| 04:16.56 | Toba | and whatever software i develop, i need to be able to compile it myself |
| 04:16.56 | lcuk | johnx, imagine 12 months down the line being able to have users simply open a quick simple light ide from ANY computer, be it windows mac linux or whatever and just build stuff |
| 04:17.08 | lcuk | developers ^ |
| 04:17.12 | lcuk | heh |
| 04:17.27 | alterego | 12 months? |
| 04:17.32 | alterego | What's happening in 12 months? |
| 04:17.40 | sin18 | has anyone triple booted the system (flash, SD card boot, nitroid); my tablet (n800/diablo) is currently set to boot from SD and am wondering if installing nitroid (3rd partition on sd card) will mess it up :) |
| 04:17.42 | johnx | lcuk, sure. we'll just use virtualization. in 12 months computers will be fast enough. |
| 04:17.50 | lcuk | heh just a random "in the future" |
| 04:18.08 | alterego | I already use virtualization. My computer goes like greased weazel shit. |
| 04:18.10 | lcuk | but a virtual tablet isnt the same |
| 04:18.20 | alterego | sbrsh :P |
| 04:18.23 | alterego | sshfs |
| 04:18.31 | lcuk | sshfs a touch interface? |
| 04:18.44 | johnx | Toba, fair enough. I think the right answer is getting scratchbox installed then, rather than trying to build without it. We're willing to help you troubleshoot if you'd like. |
| 04:18.51 | alterego | You don't _have_ to use scratchbox to test your programs :P |
| 04:19.10 | b-man | lcuk; if you have a umpc or tablet computer |
| 04:19.36 | johnx | lcuk, sshfs is everything that smb isn't |
| 04:19.36 | lcuk | but by the time you've opened an ssh channel, sent the file, executed it it finished building and ran natively |
| 04:19.52 | lcuk | b-man, got one, compile natively for x86 there |
| 04:20.08 | lcuk | still sat at my windows computer though |
| 04:20.23 | b-man | heh |
| 04:21.01 | lcuk | windows desktop ide beats anything linuxy ive tried so far, xp is nice for mouse |
| 04:21.19 | johnx | why would you want to use a mouse? |
| 04:21.26 | alterego | Erm, sshfs means the files are accessible on the tablet as soon as they're compiled. |
| 04:21.29 | lcuk | but im getting used to having nice linux machines |
| 04:21.30 | johnx | stares warily at his mouse |
| 04:21.33 | b-man | i wonder how windows 7 will be like... |
| 04:21.35 | lcuk | johnx, gorilla arm |
| 04:21.35 | alterego | All you need to use ssh for is executing the program .. |
| 04:21.45 | alterego | And there's sbrsh :P |
| 04:21.50 | Toba | ok I have |
| 04:21.50 | Toba | DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=unix:path=/tmp/session_bus_socket,guid=ad9eee430b220449e5d5d100495d95ff |
| 04:21.50 | Toba | DBUS_SESSION_BUS_PID=5518 |
| 04:21.51 | alterego | Though I've not actually used that yet. |
| 04:21.52 | lcuk | a mouse driven ui wastes about 90% of the space when used with a pen |
| 04:21.58 | Toba | how can I use this with dbus-send to talk to the program? |
| 04:22.16 | lcuk | and you end up having to be so precise its unrealy |
| 04:22.20 | lcuk | unreal |
| 04:22.27 | lcuk | anyway, 2 bed with me |
| 04:22.50 | johnx | 'night lcuk |
| 04:22.51 | b-man | see ya! |
| 04:23.24 | Toba | to be honest I prefer dcop |
| 04:23.25 | Toba | to dbus |
| 04:23.33 | Toba | it doesn't hurt my head |
| 04:23.56 | johnx | yeah, dbus can be a little bit scary at times |
| 04:25.46 | b-man | can any one help me with this; i just installed ubuntu on my N800 but even though it booted with allmost no errors, gdm refuses to launch. |
| 04:26.17 | b-man | i'm using xserver-xorg. |
| 04:26.31 | b-man | with omap drivers. |
| 04:26.43 | johnx | can you run X manually? |
| 04:27.07 | Toba | wow |
| 04:27.10 | Toba | I feel like a jerk now |
| 04:27.20 | Toba | I just realized that I can just install a different pdf viewer |
| 04:27.21 | b-man | i could, but i dont have a keyboard to type anything in the console. |
| 04:27.28 | Toba | instead of killing myself to talk to the built in one |
| 04:27.41 | Toba | hangs head in shame. |
| 04:27.54 | johnx | Toba, no worries. :) |
| 04:28.11 | johnx | b-man, well, that would make things difficult. maybe ssh in? |
| 04:28.24 | Toba | apt-get install evince |
| 04:28.29 | Toba | that is all I needed |
| 04:28.33 | Toba | thanks for your help, guys. |
| 04:28.39 | b-man | i don't know how to use ssh. :P |
| 04:28.51 | b-man | sad, isn't it... |
| 04:29.11 | johnx | b-man, do you have wireless setup in ubuntu on your tablet? |
| 04:30.01 | johnx | alternatively, can you plug your tablet in via usb to your desktop? if so you can use the "emergency telnet daemon" |
| 04:30.52 | b-man | could i chroot in?, i don't have a working linux computer atm... |
| 04:31.13 | b-man | :( |
| 04:31.31 | johnx | ah, yeah. but you can't test X while chrooted |
| 04:32.17 | b-man | is it possible to ssh in locally on my tablet? |
| 04:32.57 | johnx | sure, but I don't see how that helps. it's the same as being in an x terminal |
| 04:35.37 | b-man | i think i do have a fuew logs from the xserver, also i've noticed that xserver-xorg keeps falling back on "xorg.conf.failsafe - that might be the sorce of the issue. |
| 04:35.56 | johnx | probably means it's crashing |
| 04:36.22 | b-man | could i send you the logs va e-mail? |
| 04:36.34 | johnx | just put them on pastebin.ca |
| 04:36.47 | johnx | that way other people can have a look if they want |
| 04:37.40 | b-man | i don't think my xchat has a pastebin plugin :P |
| 04:38.14 | johnx | huh? but it has an email plugin? :P |
| 04:38.36 | *** join/#maemo jacques (n=jacques@nslu2-linux/jacques) |
| 04:38.46 | b-man | it has a file-transfer plugin - would that help? |
| 04:39.02 | johnx | I don't think I can receive files from dcc |
| 04:39.09 | johnx | I'm behind too many firewalls :/ |
| 04:40.31 | b-man | oh, got to go - need to do some chores - see you in ah hour or so.. |
| 04:44.52 | *** join/#maemo kimitake____ (n=kimitake@netblock-72-25-106-30.dslextreme.com) |
| 04:47.53 | *** join/#maemo kimitake____ (n=kimitake@netblock-72-25-106-30.dslextreme.com) |
| 04:57.39 | *** join/#maemo b-man (n=b-man@cpe-98-31-62-244.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 04:57.49 | b-man | i'm back |
| 04:58.03 | b-man | jhonx, you there? |
| 04:58.06 | johnx | yup |
| 04:58.07 | johnx | still here |
| 04:58.14 | b-man | :) |
| 04:59.15 | b-man | i'm trying to find an easy way to show you those logs... |
| 04:59.18 | b-man | ;) |
| 04:59.28 | johnx | they're on an sd card, right? |
| 04:59.38 | b-man | yes |
| 05:00.03 | b-man | in the ubuntu partition :) |
| 05:00.08 | b-man | heh |
| 05:00.16 | johnx | boot into maemo, open the log in text editor, copy into pastebin.ca . presto :) |
| 05:01.55 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@44.84-49-128.nextgentel.com) |
| 05:02.46 | b-man | using my cdeb2» software to gain acsess to my ubuntu partition... |
| 05:07.38 | b-man | jhonx; http://pastebin.ca/1298072 - my xorg log |
| 05:08.14 | johnx | did you specify that you want to use omapfb driver in your xorg.conf? |
| 05:08.43 | johnx | it's erroring out trying to load the "vesa" video driver...which it shouldn't try to load |
| 05:09.08 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@201-1-137-153.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 05:10.28 | *** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@147.17.168.202-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 05:10.54 | b-man | i actually used a xorg.conf from mer, witch included all of the specifications, but xorg refuses to use it and automaticly falls back on xorg.conf.failsafe and uses wron parameters. |
| 05:13.30 | johnx | do you have the log from when X decides to use the xorg.conf.failsafe? |
| 05:14.49 | b-man | that was the log... |
| 05:15.49 | b-man | i think... |
| 05:15.49 | johnx | usually what happens is that X fails to start and then it runs a new X server that uses the xorg.conf.failsafe |
| 05:16.06 | b-man | hmmm |
| 05:17.29 | johnx | do you have any other logs? |
| 05:17.29 | b-man | i'll look |
| 05:17.54 | johnx | and while you're at it, put up your xorg.conf . I wonder if you might be using an old xorg.conf or an old copy of the omapfb x driver |
| 05:19.35 | AStorm | esp. verbose .8 log |
| 05:20.25 | AStorm | should be in /var/log |
| 05:20.25 | AStorm | split city :P |
| 05:21.30 | *** join/#maemo pupnik_ (n=pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik) |
| 05:23.52 | *** join/#maemo suihkulokki (i=nchip@naru.obs2.net) |
| 05:24.05 | *** join/#maemo akiniemi (n=apniemi@host-126.nrln.net) |
| 05:24.32 | *** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@147.17.168.202-static.velocitynet.com.au) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.32 | *** join/#maemo sin18 (n=sin18@pool-71-100-21-253.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.33 | *** join/#maemo gentooer (n=asdfsf@pool-72-90-138-252.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.33 | *** join/#maemo SHADOW__X (n=Ghost36@c-24-0-8-231.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.33 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (n=befr0d@190.68.13.178) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.33 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.33 | *** join/#maemo andre___ (n=andre@g224237007.adsl.alicedsl.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.33 | *** join/#maemo eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-12-69.revip2.asianet.co.th) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.33 | *** join/#maemo bmidgley (n=bmidgley@c-24-2-92-215.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.33 | *** join/#maemo Proteous (n=mike@atlantic.devin.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.33 | *** join/#maemo wjt (n=will@unaffiliated/resiak) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.33 | *** join/#maemo derf (i=ptolemy@pool-71-178-51-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.33 | *** join/#maemo |thunder (n=e@68.61.172.71) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.33 | *** join/#maemo chouse (n=chadh@ws.stunned.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.33 | *** join/#maemo BULLE (n=bulle@c-eb2971d5.015-48-626c671.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.33 | *** join/#maemo lir1 (n=lirant@bzq-179-128-126.static.bezeqint.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.33 | *** join/#maemo JunnuX (n=junnu@wabbits.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.34 | *** join/#maemo mavhc (n=mavhc@cpc1-basf7-0-0-cust298.nott.cable.ntl.com) |
| 05:24.34 | *** join/#maemo jacques (n=jacques@nslu2-linux/jacques) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.34 | *** join/#maemo acydlord (n=acydlord@97-117-176-110.phnx.qwest.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.34 | *** join/#maemo herzi (n=herzi@p578EBB3B.dip.t-dialin.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.34 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (n=pcfe@a88-115-23-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.34 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@200-168-20-4.dsl.telesp.net.br) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.34 | *** join/#maemo Grackle (n=Alex@227-230.suscom-maine.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo alterego (n=tswindel@88-110-100-184.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0C0BA.access.telenet.be) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@ANantes-252-1-49-195.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo alextreme (n=alex@82-171-161-1.ip.telfort.nl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo punkass (n=user@unaffiliated/punkass) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo profoX` (n=wesley@d54C3831C.access.telenet.be) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo onion (n=milang@tori.tal.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo booiiing (n=[booiiin@e180028145.adsl.alicedsl.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo fredix (n=fred@fredix.nodecast.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo aboyz (n=davidwon@74.7.66.226) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo gladiac (n=gladiac@milliways.cynapses.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo croppa (n=stuart@135.27.233.220.exetel.com.au) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo jvtm (i=jvtm@omni.byte.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo wanders (n=andersg@0x63.nu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo oli (i=oli@platinum.edu.pl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo fuz_ (i=nobody@vau75-10-88-164-23-88.fbx.proxad.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo bergwolf (n=bergwolf@2001:da8:215:1800:20d:87ff:fe05:44b) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo msh (n=matt@evil.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo \stro (n=astro@2001:8d8:81:5c0:0:0:0:2) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo EgS (n=egs@quassel/developer/egs) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo Pavlov (n=pavlov@shell.off.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo ryoohki (n=ryoohki@208.96.15.252) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo ShadowJK (i=jk@terminus.enivax.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo drjnut (i=proxy@caladan.darksnow.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo borism (n=boris@195-50-201-40-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo gletelli (n=chatzill@fw-tnat.cambridge.arm.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.35 | *** join/#maemo legind (n=inputout@67.207.129.133) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo hap (n=hap@ded1.conovae.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo mat (n=mat@igoan/mat) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo milhouse (n=irc_milh@dsl-217-155-26-150.zen.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo pdz (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo Norrit_ (n=okat@62.183.134.122) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo kulve (i=b471dc83@emperor.pingu.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo inz (i=inz@maemo-hackers.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo emma (n=emma@unaffiliated/emma) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo solmumaha (n=solmis@mikkeli.wsoy.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo aquarius- (n=aquarius@yang.mitm.cz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo k`sOSe (n=chpst3r@bugged.keamera-labs.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo romaxa___ (n=romaxa@noise.cosmicparrot.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo Juhaz (i=juhaz@y140.ip6.netikka.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo r2d2rogers (n=r2d2roge@unaffiliated/r2d2rogers) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo Pebby (n=pebby@c-24-5-47-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo zorrolero (n=zorroler@85.88.5.125) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo nikosapi (n=nikosapi@nikosapi.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo ch4os (n=ch4os@gentoo/user/ch4os) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo cmvo (n=cmvo@ex4.73a.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo X-Fade (n=xfade@78-20-14-109.access.telenet.be) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo solca (n=solca@solcadesk.galileo.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo Aisling (i=ash@blk-137-73-33.eastlink.ca) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.36 | *** join/#maemo bstock (n=bstock@68.78.185.226) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo ijon_ (n=ijon@dhcp218-262.yandex.ru) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo bearclaw (n=bearclaw@voie.juste-mili.eu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo riot (n=wntrmut@krombacher-pils.oph.RWTH-Aachen.DE) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo Robot101 (n=robot101@omega.hadesian.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo pyhimys (n=kytomaki@v6.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo Hirvinen (i=pahirvin@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo jaska (i=jaska@fe154.netikka.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo `Mace (i=mace@rancorous.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo mariorz (n=mariorz@unaffiliated/mariorz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo VRe (n=vre@vre.iki.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo Disconnect (n=dis@sigkill.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo timely (n=timeless@a88-115-12-126.elisa-laajakaista.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo WolfSage (n=Wolfy@unaffiliated/wolfsage) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo robtaylor (n=robtaylo@floopily.codethink.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo Dasajev (i=dankkan@xob.kapsi.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo ToyKeeper (n=ToyKeepe@74.95.113.201) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo dlmarti (n=David@dsl092-055-171.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo zeenix (i=zeenix@static.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo andrunko (n=andrunko@jalfrezi.collabora.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo Khertan_n810 (n=Khertan_@193.84.187.26) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo dystopia (i=root@heresy.sbin.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo glass (i=glass@ip242.otanner5.opintanner.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo vcgomes (n=vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo trenka (n=ykaliuta@195.28.57.27) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo anima (i=anima@nikita.tnnet.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.37 | *** join/#maemo Jaffa (n=andrew@badger.bleb.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.38 | *** join/#maemo LiraNuna (n=LiraNuna@c-98-210-158-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.38 | *** join/#maemo GeneralAntilles (n=GeneralA@c-69-244-211-19.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.38 | *** join/#maemo _closure (n=E78C8EE4@li48-120.members.linode.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.38 | *** join/#maemo jkyro (i=jasu@cs181095056.pp.htv.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.38 | *** join/#maemo dob (i=gintomik@otitsun.oulu.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.38 | *** join/#maemo xorAxAx (n=xorAxax@moinmoin/coreteam/alexander) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.38 | *** join/#maemo mikkov_ (n=mtvartia@vipunen.hut.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.38 | *** join/#maemo kaatis (i=jkataja@nat/movial/x-0636633f738d219b) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.38 | *** join/#maemo jumpula (n=jumpula@smooth.piipiip.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.38 | *** join/#maemo wiza (i=wiza@wiza.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.38 | *** join/#maemo wnd (n=wnd@katei.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.38 | *** join/#maemo MiskaX (i=w0saxd1v@rankki.sonarnerd.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.38 | *** join/#maemo summatusmentis (n=summatus@keymaster.tproa.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.38 | *** join/#maemo Firehand (i=adrian@armitage.firehand.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.38 | *** join/#maemo solarion (n=solarion@fsf/member/solarion) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.38 | *** join/#maemo Jiten (n=blight@a88-115-120-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.38 | *** join/#maemo flatface_ (n=flatface@chaoticevil.ca) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.38 | *** join/#maemo Neithan (n=ljmann@castor.utu.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.39 | *** join/#maemo karbas (i=karbas@thalassa.inside.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.39 | *** join/#maemo taplax (n=taplax@srv-h71.esp.mediateam.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.39 | *** join/#maemo tabletee1 (n=cosinus@nomad.last-refuge.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.39 | *** join/#maemo script (n=script@scriptkiller.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:32.19 | pupnik_ | foomp |
| 05:32.19 | Toba | pew pew |
| 05:33.05 | *** join/#maemo ccooke_ (n=ccooke@spc1-walt10-0-0-cust85.asfd.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 05:33.05 | *** join/#maemo mavhc (n=mavhc@cpc1-basf7-0-0-cust298.nott.cable.ntl.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.05 | *** join/#maemo jacques (n=jacques@nslu2-linux/jacques) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.05 | *** join/#maemo acydlord (n=acydlord@97-117-176-110.phnx.qwest.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.05 | *** join/#maemo herzi (n=herzi@p578EBB3B.dip.t-dialin.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.05 | *** join/#maemo pcfe (n=pcfe@a88-115-23-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.05 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@200-168-20-4.dsl.telesp.net.br) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.05 | *** join/#maemo Grackle (n=Alex@227-230.suscom-maine.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.05 | *** join/#maemo alterego (n=tswindel@88-110-100-184.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.05 | *** join/#maemo pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0C0BA.access.telenet.be) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.05 | *** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@ANantes-252-1-49-195.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#maemo alextreme (n=alex@82-171-161-1.ip.telfort.nl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#maemo punkass (n=user@unaffiliated/punkass) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#maemo profoX` (n=wesley@d54C3831C.access.telenet.be) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#maemo onion (n=milang@tori.tal.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#maemo booiiing (n=[booiiin@e180028145.adsl.alicedsl.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#maemo fredix (n=fred@fredix.nodecast.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#maemo aboyz (n=davidwon@74.7.66.226) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#maemo gladiac (n=gladiac@milliways.cynapses.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#maemo croppa (n=stuart@135.27.233.220.exetel.com.au) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#maemo jvtm (i=jvtm@omni.byte.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#maemo wanders (n=andersg@0x63.nu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#maemo oli (i=oli@platinum.edu.pl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#maemo fuz_ (i=nobody@vau75-10-88-164-23-88.fbx.proxad.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#maemo bergwolf (n=bergwolf@2001:da8:215:1800:20d:87ff:fe05:44b) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#maemo msh (n=matt@evil.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#maemo \stro (n=astro@2001:8d8:81:5c0:0:0:0:2) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#maemo EgS (n=egs@quassel/developer/egs) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#maemo Pavlov (n=pavlov@shell.off.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#maemo ryoohki (n=ryoohki@208.96.15.252) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo ShadowJK (i=jk@terminus.enivax.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo drjnut (i=proxy@caladan.darksnow.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo borism (n=boris@195-50-201-40-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo gletelli (n=chatzill@fw-tnat.cambridge.arm.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo legind (n=inputout@67.207.129.133) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo hap (n=hap@ded1.conovae.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo mat (n=mat@igoan/mat) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo milhouse (n=irc_milh@dsl-217-155-26-150.zen.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo pdz (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo Norrit_ (n=okat@62.183.134.122) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo kulve (i=b471dc83@emperor.pingu.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo inz (i=inz@maemo-hackers.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo emma (n=emma@unaffiliated/emma) |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo solmumaha (n=solmis@mikkeli.wsoy.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo aquarius- (n=aquarius@yang.mitm.cz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo k`sOSe (n=chpst3r@bugged.keamera-labs.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo romaxa___ (n=romaxa@noise.cosmicparrot.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo Juhaz (i=juhaz@y140.ip6.netikka.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo r2d2rogers (n=r2d2roge@unaffiliated/r2d2rogers) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo Pebby (n=pebby@c-24-5-47-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo zorrolero (n=zorroler@85.88.5.125) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo nikosapi (n=nikosapi@nikosapi.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo ch4os (n=ch4os@gentoo/user/ch4os) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo cmvo (n=cmvo@ex4.73a.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo X-Fade (n=xfade@78-20-14-109.access.telenet.be) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#maemo solca (n=solca@solcadesk.galileo.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.08 | *** join/#maemo Aisling (i=ash@blk-137-73-33.eastlink.ca) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.08 | *** join/#maemo bstock (n=bstock@68.78.185.226) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.08 | *** join/#maemo ijon_ (n=ijon@dhcp218-262.yandex.ru) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.08 | *** join/#maemo bearclaw (n=bearclaw@voie.juste-mili.eu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.08 | *** join/#maemo riot (n=wntrmut@krombacher-pils.oph.RWTH-Aachen.DE) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.08 | *** join/#maemo Dasajev (i=dankkan@xob.kapsi.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.08 | *** join/#maemo ToyKeeper (n=ToyKeepe@74.95.113.201) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.08 | *** join/#maemo dlmarti (n=David@dsl092-055-171.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.08 | *** join/#maemo zeenix (i=zeenix@static.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.08 | *** join/#maemo andrunko (n=andrunko@jalfrezi.collabora.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.08 | *** join/#maemo Khertan_n810 (n=Khertan_@193.84.187.26) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.08 | *** join/#maemo dystopia (i=root@heresy.sbin.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.22 | *** join/#maemo glass (i=glass@ip242.otanner5.opintanner.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.22 | *** join/#maemo rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.22 | *** join/#maemo vcgomes (n=vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo trenka (n=ykaliuta@195.28.57.27) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo anima (i=anima@nikita.tnnet.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo Jaffa (n=andrew@badger.bleb.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo LiraNuna (n=LiraNuna@c-98-210-158-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo GeneralAntilles (n=GeneralA@c-69-244-211-19.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo _closure (n=E78C8EE4@li48-120.members.linode.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo jkyro (i=jasu@cs181095056.pp.htv.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo dob (i=gintomik@otitsun.oulu.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo xorAxAx (n=xorAxax@moinmoin/coreteam/alexander) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo mikkov_ (n=mtvartia@vipunen.hut.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo kaatis (i=jkataja@nat/movial/x-0636633f738d219b) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo jumpula (n=jumpula@smooth.piipiip.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo wiza (i=wiza@wiza.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo wnd (n=wnd@katei.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo MiskaX (i=w0saxd1v@rankki.sonarnerd.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo summatusmentis (n=summatus@keymaster.tproa.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo Firehand (i=adrian@armitage.firehand.org) |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo solarion (n=solarion@fsf/member/solarion) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo Jiten (n=blight@a88-115-120-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo flatface_ (n=flatface@chaoticevil.ca) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo Neithan (n=ljmann@castor.utu.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo karbas (i=karbas@thalassa.inside.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo taplax (n=taplax@srv-h71.esp.mediateam.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo tabletee1 (n=cosinus@nomad.last-refuge.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo script (n=script@scriptkiller.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.23 | *** join/#maemo robtaylor (n=robtaylo@floopily.codethink.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.24 | *** join/#maemo WolfSage (n=Wolfy@unaffiliated/wolfsage) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.24 | *** join/#maemo timely (n=timeless@a88-115-12-126.elisa-laajakaista.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.24 | *** join/#maemo Disconnect (n=dis@sigkill.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.24 | *** join/#maemo VRe (n=vre@vre.iki.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.24 | *** join/#maemo mariorz (n=mariorz@unaffiliated/mariorz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.24 | *** join/#maemo `Mace (i=mace@rancorous.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.24 | *** join/#maemo jaska (i=jaska@fe154.netikka.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.24 | *** join/#maemo Hirvinen (i=pahirvin@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.24 | *** join/#maemo pyhimys (n=kytomaki@v6.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.24 | *** join/#maemo Robot101 (n=robot101@omega.hadesian.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.30 | *** join/#maemo jott (n=j@outpo.st) |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@201-1-137-153.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo b-man (n=b-man@cpe-98-31-62-244.woh.res.rr.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth (n=dforsyth@pool-71-191-243-225.washdc.fios.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo chandoo (n=chandoo@ool-4353bb46.dyn.optonline.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf-n810 (n=hellwolf@a81-84-104-189.cpe.netcabo.pt) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo lool (n=lool@debian/developer/lool) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo Meiz_n810 (n=Meizirkk@dsl-lhtbrasgw2-fe2cf800-231.dhcp.inet.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=sporks@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo GAN800 (n=ryan@2416422hfc34.tampabay.res.rr.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo guerby (n=guerby@113.196.98-84.rev.gaoland.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo tank-man (i=1000@S010600121729c6a1.vc.shawcable.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo pupnik__ (n=pupnik@pD95FC975.dip.t-dialin.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo krutt (n=mk@unaffiliated/red-zack) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (n=geaaru@host242-211-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo svu__ (n=svu@89.100.187.26) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo johnx (n=john@p2172-ipbf2302hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo nelson (n=nelson@rrcs-72-43-17-175.nys.biz.rr.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo briand (n=brian@dsl226028.dyndsl.nettally.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo philipl (i=1000@c-98-210-152-237.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo GAN8001 (n=GAN8001@2416422hfc34.tampabay.res.rr.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo Pyrhos (n=PyrO@ANantes-158-1-116-141.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo TeringTu1y (n=maarten@195-241-125-243.ip.telfort.nl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo cyndis (n=cyndis@82-128-203-74-Korvensuora-TR1.suomi.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo cy3o3 (n=cy@it.was.otherkids.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.31 | *** join/#maemo straind (n=stupidpe@n080s062.bbr1.shentel.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.32 | *** join/#maemo dev (n=dev@itc-scholz.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.32 | *** join/#maemo blafasel (n=darklaji@ts.webtales.4players.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.32 | *** join/#maemo mortti_ (i=mortti@195.148.187.230) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.32 | *** join/#maemo aquatix (n=aquatix@higgs.soleus.nu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.32 | *** join/#maemo fysa (n=j@6532145hfc139.tampabay.res.rr.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.32 | *** join/#maemo befr0d (n=befr0d@icecream.rdlabs.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.32 | *** join/#maemo dragorn (i=nobody@durandal.kismetwireless.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.47 | *** join/#maemo IRSeekBot (n=IRSeekLo@irseek/log-bot/IRSeekBot) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.47 | AStorm | woo, more :) |
| 05:33.49 | *** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@147.17.168.202-static.velocitynet.com.au) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.49 | *** join/#maemo sin18 (n=sin18@pool-71-100-21-253.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.49 | *** join/#maemo gentooer (n=asdfsf@pool-72-90-138-252.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.49 | *** join/#maemo SHADOW__X (n=Ghost36@c-24-0-8-231.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.49 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (n=befr0d@190.68.13.178) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.49 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.49 | *** join/#maemo andre___ (n=andre@g224237007.adsl.alicedsl.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.49 | *** join/#maemo eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-12-69.revip2.asianet.co.th) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.49 | *** join/#maemo bmidgley (n=bmidgley@c-24-2-92-215.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.49 | *** join/#maemo Proteous (n=mike@atlantic.devin.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.49 | *** join/#maemo wjt (n=will@unaffiliated/resiak) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.49 | *** join/#maemo derf (i=ptolemy@pool-71-178-51-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.49 | *** join/#maemo |thunder (n=e@68.61.172.71) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.49 | *** join/#maemo chouse (n=chadh@ws.stunned.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.49 | *** join/#maemo BULLE (n=bulle@c-eb2971d5.015-48-626c671.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.49 | *** join/#maemo lir1 (n=lirant@bzq-179-128-126.static.bezeqint.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:33.49 | *** join/#maemo JunnuX (n=junnu@wabbits.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:34.47 | b-man | how are so many people logging in/out at once!?!? - or am i going lonny :P |
| 05:35.29 | AStorm | heheh |
| 05:35.40 | AStorm | it's a netsplit |
| 05:36.00 | AStorm | btw, do we have an n8x0 build of ghc? (glasgow haskell compiler) |
| 05:36.25 | b-man | i have no idia :P |
| 05:36.50 | johnx | AStorm, I was really impressed how you commanded it to happen :D |
| 05:37.14 | AStorm | hehehe |
| 05:37.44 | AStorm | just a coincidence |
| 05:38.18 | johnx | right. whatever you say. I'll just remember not to make you angry so you don't kick me off the internet O_o |
| 05:38.49 | b-man | johnx, did you get those log files? - i mostly just packed up my /var/log directory in a .tar.gz |
| 05:39.15 | AStorm | (and a bit of future seeing) |
| 05:41.25 | johnx | what gdm are you using? |
| 05:41.39 | AStorm | I recommend startx |
| 05:41.50 | AStorm | ::P |
| 05:42.02 | johnx | AStorm, he has no keyboard, and no way to ssh or telnet |
| 05:42.12 | AStorm | whoops |
| 05:42.22 | AStorm | then timed startx in a script |
| 05:42.23 | AStorm | :) |
| 05:42.36 | AStorm | as long as he can flash |
| 05:42.47 | b-man | the one that was installed when i installed ubuntu-desktop (gnome display manager) |
| 05:43.00 | AStorm | mhm, gdm |
| 05:43.11 | AStorm | it probably hijacks the log |
| 05:43.30 | johnx | are you using one of the X packages from deblet? |
| 05:44.46 | b-man | no, but i did install insserv for ubuntu. |
| 05:45.00 | johnx | somehow you have xomap installed I think |
| 05:45.19 | johnx | instead of xserver-xorg-video-omapfb |
| 05:45.39 | b-man | i'll check synaptic.. hold on... |
| 05:45.50 | johnx | yeah, search for anything omap |
| 05:46.57 | johnx | er...maybe scratch that. it really looks like you have part of the gdm config to run xomap, but X is linked to Xorg |
| 05:47.18 | AStorm | again |
| 05:47.31 | AStorm | do we have a package of ghc for maemo? |
| 05:47.55 | johnx | probably not |
| 05:48.46 | b-man | with the exception of xorg omap drivers, nothing else |
| 05:49.09 | b-man | no xomap-xserver |
| 05:49.50 | johnx | ok, I was probably wrong on that. it looks like gdm is supplying the right options to run xomap, but is passing them Xorg |
| 05:49.51 | b-man | that might have ben caused because i was running some apps from chroot in maemo. |
| 05:50.59 | b-man | do you think it could be gdm-conf? |
| 05:51.14 | johnx | yes, that's probably it. where did you get it from? |
| 05:51.27 | b-man | from deblet :) |
| 05:51.31 | johnx | :P |
| 05:51.35 | b-man | hehehe |
| 05:52.08 | johnx | why don't you just grab a Mer image? |
| 05:52.30 | b-man | because mer doesn't have gdm.conf |
| 05:52.40 | b-man | it uses hildon |
| 05:53.00 | johnx | how will you use gdm without a keyboard? |
| 05:53.15 | b-man | auto login :) |
| 05:53.31 | johnx | in a sec, I'll have an alternative to gdm called auto-startx :) |
| 05:53.56 | b-man | huh? |
| 05:54.15 | johnx | it will run startx from init.d |
| 05:54.53 | johnx | Mer's hildon plays nicer with other desktop environments than Nokia's hildon |
| 05:55.33 | AStorm | an init script |
| 05:55.35 | AStorm | :) |
| 05:56.00 | johnx | think of it as a display manager replacement that always auto-logins as a certain user |
| 05:56.10 | johnx | but in this case people can at least pick the user and desktop env it runs |
| 05:56.21 | johnx | or easily replace it with gdm, kdm, wdm, xdm |
| 05:58.43 | johnx | in fact, the goal is to have apt-get install gdm "do the right thing" (tm) from a default mer install |
| 06:00.33 | b-man | so this script will automaticly log me in on console, startx, log me in on gnome, and drop me off at my desktop? |
| 06:00.45 | johnx | that's the idea |
| 06:00.53 | johnx | I'll see if it works in a sec :) |
| 06:01.01 | *** join/#maemo Grackle (n=Alex@227-230.suscom-maine.net) |
| 06:01.03 | AStorm | really, please do steal ubuntu init |
| 06:01.04 | AStorm | :P |
| 06:01.09 | johnx | huh? |
| 06:01.30 | johnx | not sure I understand? does ubuntu have something that does this? |
| 06:03.36 | b-man | god it's late; 1:02 am here :p |
| 06:03.56 | johnx | well, then don't stay up waiting for my package |
| 06:04.03 | johnx | it will be a bit yet |
| 06:04.08 | b-man | k |
| 06:04.18 | b-man | see you tomorrow ;) |
| 06:04.25 | b-man | g'night |
| 06:04.34 | johnx | 'night :) |
| 06:07.46 | *** join/#maemo yigal (n=yigal@pool-71-118-45-152.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 06:11.17 | AStorm | johnx, as in, get rid of the broken maemo init |
| 06:11.26 | AStorm | :) |
| 06:11.33 | johnx | yes |
| 06:11.45 | johnx | it's done |
| 06:11.52 | AStorm | :) |
| 06:12.12 | johnx | it will run the same way x-display-manager runs in debuntu |
| 06:12.18 | AStorm | as a bonus, you can use upstart properly |
| 06:13.01 | johnx | is there a tutorial I could read on that? |
| 06:13.14 | johnx | for now I'll be happy to just make it get into a desktop env |
| 06:13.54 | AStorm | no idea yet :) |
| 06:14.08 | johnx | then it can wait til later I guess |
| 06:14.33 | johnx | that should be easy to shoehorn in later in a "polishing" stage...maybe even by you? :D |
| 06:15.30 | AStorm | :) |
| 06:15.44 | AStorm | are you working on fremantle by any chance? |
| 06:16.17 | johnx | in mer? largely |
| 06:16.40 | johnx | but the fremantle pre-alpha-sdk mostly consists of a diablo-like environment |
| 06:16.48 | johnx | no fancy-shmancy 3D stuff added yet |
| 06:16.49 | AStorm | hm |
| 06:16.52 | johnx | just some version bumps |
| 06:27.02 | *** join/#maemo Disconnect (n=ndis@sigkill.net) |
| 06:33.12 | *** join/#maemo Vulcanis (i=Vulcanis@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 06:36.15 | *** join/#maemo lpotter (n=lpotter@58.173.176.153) |
| 07:40.35 | *** join/#maemo simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 07:50.04 | *** join/#maemo eocanha (n=eocanha@cm152130.red83-165.mundo-r.com) |
| 07:52.42 | *** join/#maemo mardi__1 (n=mardi_@host81-146-53-225.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net) |
| 07:52.57 | *** join/#maemo konttori (n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 07:57.49 | Stskeeps | morning |
| 07:57.55 | johnx | mornin' |
| 08:34.06 | RST38h | moo johnx |
| 08:34.18 | johnx | m00f RST38h |
| 08:34.38 | konttori | moo all |
| 08:34.52 | konttori | begins today his adobe flex tests |
| 08:38.07 | *** join/#maemo Stslaptop (n=foo@84.238.94.136) |
| 08:48.29 | RST38h | reboot. |
| 08:48.35 | johnx | no. |
| 08:48.52 | johnx | don't. wanna. |
| 08:50.00 | *** join/#maemo juergbi (n=juerg@84-73-62-122.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:55.44 | *** join/#maemo frade (n=ivan@esprx02x.nokia.com) |
| 09:02.00 | *** join/#maemo tekojo (n=tekojo@dasasob.nokia.com) |
| 09:02.05 | *** join/#maemo lubyou (n=lubyou@ip-eyes.fr) |
| 09:07.13 | *** join/#maemo frade (n=ivan@esprx01x.nokia.com) |
| 09:16.29 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 09:21.45 | johnx | mornin' Jaffa |
| 09:22.25 | Vulcanis | :\ |
| 09:22.27 | Vulcanis | not tired |
| 09:22.31 | Vulcanis | 04:22:34 |
| 09:22.32 | Vulcanis | :\ |
| 09:23.01 | johnx | I could try and bore you to sleep |
| 09:23.08 | Vulcanis | doesn't work |
| 09:23.12 | Vulcanis | I've already tried |
| 09:29.53 | *** join/#maemo Zic (n=zic@ubuntu/member/zic) |
| 09:32.18 | bef0rd | lolz |
| 09:37.08 | *** join/#maemo ignacius (n=ignacius@90.Red-83-33-241.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 09:40.24 | johnx | Vulcanis, read the debian new package maintainers guide |
| 09:40.31 | *** join/#maemo `0660 (n=olli@dsl-jnsbrasgw2-ff64c000-228.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 09:40.35 | johnx | if you don't fall asleep you can start packaging things for extras :D |
| 09:40.50 | Vulcanis | johnx: link? |
| 09:40.55 | Vulcanis | I'll read it during school |
| 09:41.05 | Vulcanis | I can't actually code, so I might as well do something else useful |
| 09:41.21 | johnx | http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ |
| 09:41.27 | johnx | it really will help you sleep :) |
| 09:41.33 | Vulcanis | it won't, but thats ok |
| 09:41.38 | Vulcanis | its more entertaining than what I was doing |
| 09:41.41 | Vulcanis | but I'm saving it for school |
| 09:41.53 | Vulcanis | when theres nothing else to do. Except learn, I guess, but no one really teaches |
| 09:41.58 | Vulcanis | its review for fscking midterms |
| 09:42.59 | johnx | fucking midterms? O_o sounds interesting to me? how is it scored? |
| 09:43.32 | Vulcanis | Stamina, I would guess. |
| 09:44.07 | johnx | typical. no one ever appreciates unique style |
| 09:45.58 | Vulcanis | they're midterms, what do you expect? |
| 09:46.27 | Vulcanis | thats like saying "Typical, SATs don't ever grade on the quality of the cat you make on the bubblesheet" |
| 09:46.45 | johnx | but it was such a great picture! |
| 09:46.47 | johnx | sulks |
| 09:46.58 | johnx | ...had dithering too... :/ |
| 09:48.01 | Vulcanis | Can SAT scores affect you after you get into college? |
| 09:48.05 | Vulcanis | I don't think so... |
| 09:48.09 | Vulcanis | so after I'm in, I should go back |
| 09:48.12 | Vulcanis | pay the 80 or whatever |
| 09:48.15 | Vulcanis | and answer all Cs |
| 09:48.17 | Vulcanis | and see my score |
| 09:48.36 | johnx | see if you can prove whether there's correlation or not? |
| 09:49.02 | Vulcanis | no, I just have a feeling I'll get a 75% of 2600 or whatever the new score is |
| 09:49.29 | johnx | so nice to have escaped with only taking the two tests |
| 09:49.34 | Vulcanis | even if the essay part is just "Cccc Cc Cccc: c Ccc cc Cccc. cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc" |
| 09:49.50 | Vulcanis | I only took one, and it was horrid |
| 09:50.08 | johnx | by two I mean math and verbal |
| 09:50.12 | Vulcanis | ah |
| 09:50.26 | Vulcanis | I don't see the point in this next semester |
| 09:50.31 | Vulcanis | I'll relearn it all in college |
| 09:51.37 | johnx | do it now and then you can screw around in college while everyone has to work |
| 09:51.39 | johnx | that's the point |
| 09:52.02 | AStorm | :P |
| 09:52.10 | AStorm | not really |
| 09:52.22 | AStorm | and maybe have a shot at a better paid job |
| 09:52.27 | AStorm | just maybe |
| 09:52.41 | *** join/#maemo gnuton (n=gnuton@kde/developer/aloisio) |
| 09:52.44 | johnx | s/better// |
| 09:52.55 | johnx | fixed it for you :) |
| 09:53.05 | AStorm | <blink>better</blink> |
| 09:53.08 | AStorm | ;) |
| 09:53.50 | AStorm | well, try to get into IT industry w/o degree |
| 09:53.55 | AStorm | I wish you luck. |
| 09:54.00 | johnx | my point was the opposite :P |
| 09:54.05 | johnx | but actually I did |
| 09:54.09 | AStorm | hm? |
| 09:54.15 | AStorm | probably in the US? |
| 09:54.29 | johnx | my point was "try to get a paid job w/o degree in this eceonomy" |
| 09:54.37 | johnx | but yes, in the US |
| 09:54.38 | AStorm | here it's impossible unless you have conections |
| 09:54.40 | AStorm | ah |
| 09:55.01 | AStorm | yes, a bit hard |
| 09:55.10 | AStorm | and degrees are overrated |
| 09:55.17 | johnx | I had 3 years of experience as a linux sysadmin before I was out of high school |
| 09:55.20 | johnx | helped for sure :) |
| 09:55.26 | AStorm | heh |
| 09:55.33 | AStorm | sysadmin for whom? :P |
| 09:55.37 | johnx | the school |
| 09:55.40 | johnx | ahaha |
| 09:55.43 | AStorm | heh |
| 09:55.51 | AStorm | myself I set up their server |
| 09:55.56 | johnx | I'd get called out of class to fix shit :) |
| 09:55.58 | AStorm | and admined it and net for 3y too |
| 09:56.08 | AStorm | but, this country is a stuck up b*tch |
| 09:56.14 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@212.13.37.17) |
| 09:56.23 | AStorm | and they won't hire a sysadmin w/o a degree |
| 09:56.27 | AStorm | :P |
| 09:56.39 | johnx | hard to get anywhere without a degree here either, but getting a degree here is easier than in the US for sure |
| 09:56.40 | AStorm | idiot managers |
| 09:56.47 | AStorm | yup |
| 09:56.51 | AStorm | same here |
| 09:57.04 | AStorm | but I'm now required to get 2mo of work experience... |
| 09:57.09 | AStorm | in the field |
| 09:57.15 | AStorm | w/o any degree |
| 09:57.20 | AStorm | to get the engineer one |
| 09:57.22 | AStorm | :P |
| 09:57.30 | AStorm | catch 22 |
| 09:57.31 | johnx | win :) |
| 09:58.15 | johnx | did you put your experience in high school on your cv/resume/job app? |
| 09:58.19 | AStorm | I'll apply for a cushy spot in a cert company |
| 09:58.32 | AStorm | johnx, I'm yet to send it, I will obviously |
| 09:59.04 | johnx | good. some people forget the whole "work experience" != "job experience" |
| 09:59.08 | AStorm | johnx, the trick is hat companies are refunded for our "practice" |
| 09:59.20 | johnx | hat companies? |
| 09:59.44 | AStorm | even then not many want us poor uni students |
| 09:59.44 | AStorm | :P |
| 09:59.45 | johnx | pictures AStorm sewing baseball caps :) |
| 10:00.01 | AStorm | *that |
| 10:00.22 | AStorm | they just have to run these short practices |
| 10:00.44 | AStorm | or may even just hire a student, they'll get refunded 2 months |
| 10:00.52 | johnx | ah, probably not the quality of the workers so much as the fact that 2 months is barely enough to make most people productive |
| 10:00.54 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-53-225.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net) |
| 10:00.57 | AStorm | but of course, no, it's too much bother |
| 10:01.01 | AStorm | yup |
| 10:01.14 | AStorm | and nobody wants a student |
| 10:01.22 | AStorm | or even an intern w/o a degree |
| 10:01.41 | AStorm | talk about our uni being disadvantaged |
| 10:01.49 | johnx | I was somewhat lucky to be starting into the "real world" job market before the current economy |
| 10:02.19 | AStorm | heh yeah |
| 10:02.31 | johnx | would have been awesome to start in 95/96 instead of 05/06 |
| 10:02.43 | AStorm | .com fun |
| 10:03.15 | glass | AStorm: try to get to know the right people |
| 10:03.16 | johnx | I'd be dictating from my marble throne what interms should type into my IRC client |
| 10:03.30 | glass | AStorm: or scoring freelance gigs |
| 10:04.33 | AStorm | freelancing w/o a degree is impossible here |
| 10:04.36 | AStorm | :P |
| 10:04.43 | glass | AStorm: you're on the internet |
| 10:04.47 | AStorm | fun,eh? |
| 10:04.49 | glass | it's not impossible :) |
| 10:04.55 | glass | AStorm: i don't have a degree.. |
| 10:05.03 | AStorm | yup, if you tell me who will hire a programmer |
| 10:05.11 | glass | well, what can you do |
| 10:05.22 | AStorm | I can't do weeb design :P |
| 10:05.25 | AStorm | *web |
| 10:05.41 | glass | plenty easy to get shady php jobs from shady forums ;) |
| 10:05.55 | AStorm | shady = not counting as work experience |
| 10:06.02 | AStorm | money is not a problem just yet |
| 10:06.57 | AStorm | because I got one shady job writing DVDRW firmware some time ago :P |
| 10:07.12 | johnx | that's awesome |
| 10:07.24 | AStorm | but, it was shady, so nobody knows :P |
| 10:07.38 | AStorm | which friggin sucks |
| 10:08.05 | johnx | remembers installing hacked firmware on his first DVD drive. skeery stuff :) |
| 10:08.30 | AStorm | funny assembly for oldie chips |
| 10:08.50 | AStorm | you'd wonder what old hardware is still in use in embeddeed |
| 10:09.10 | johnx | I don't wonder. I know |
| 10:09.14 | *** join/#maemo eichi_ (n=eichi@p5B2026A7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:09.30 | Stskeeps | z80? :P |
| 10:09.35 | johnx | I believe it |
| 10:09.42 | johnx | why upgrade if you don't have to? |
| 10:09.53 | AStorm | actually, 8051 family |
| 10:09.57 | Vulcanis | [05:03:24] <johnx> I'd be dictating from my marble throne what interms should type into my IRC client -- until 2000, when you're out on the streets begging for money to pay your 56k habit |
| 10:09.57 | AStorm | :P |
| 10:10.24 | AStorm | that's why I got a laugh when our uni had 8051 programming course |
| 10:10.38 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 10:10.38 | AStorm | *when I noticed |
| 10:10.43 | johnx | Vulcanis, true. the past ain't what it used to be and/or the past sucks |
| 10:10.58 | Vulcanis | johnx: No, it was amazing until the bubble burst |
| 10:11.07 | AStorm | new old tech chips are great |
| 10:11.19 | AStorm | tiny, power efficient. indestructible |
| 10:11.20 | Vulcanis | I just want a job after college |
| 10:11.27 | johnx | Vulcanis, but amazing at 56K. no youtube, no rss, no decent ARM linux devices |
| 10:11.34 | AStorm | Vulcanis, a job... easy |
| 10:11.43 | Vulcanis | AStorm: Not if the US economy keeps up |
| 10:11.46 | johnx | Vulcanis, what kind of life is that? really? |
| 10:11.46 | Vulcanis | fine |
| 10:11.48 | Vulcanis | a decent job |
| 10:11.50 | *** join/#maemo bilboed-tp (n=bilboed@40.70.200-77.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 10:12.00 | AStorm | Vulcanis, now, that's different |
| 10:12.00 | Vulcanis | John: One with animated gifs instead of youtube...? |
| 10:12.15 | johnx | even all your base wasn't until after 2000, right? |
| 10:12.21 | Vulcanis | well |
| 10:12.21 | AStorm | johnx, no, with Flash 1.0 |
| 10:12.22 | Vulcanis | it was |
| 10:12.22 | AStorm | and java |
| 10:12.29 | Vulcanis | but the meme never actually came up until around 98 |
| 10:12.34 | Vulcanis | 97-99ish |
| 10:12.51 | Vulcanis | Ah, 97 |
| 10:12.56 | Vulcanis | back when quicktime was a windows thang |
| 10:13.01 | AStorm | hehe |
| 10:13.10 | AStorm | I started at 96 myself |
| 10:13.30 | AStorm | and at 95 Poland got connected to the Internet in a real commercial way |
| 10:13.33 | AStorm | :P |
| 10:13.47 | AStorm | as in popular dialup |
| 10:14.06 | AStorm | get a backseat, right? :P |
| 10:14.22 | AStorm | mp3 was all the rage |
| 10:15.26 | johnx | I miss napster |
| 10:15.39 | AStorm | haha |
| 10:15.46 | AStorm | nevr got to use it |
| 10:16.06 | Vulcanis | mp3 is still 'all the rage' |
| 10:16.16 | Vulcanis | if you can fit 1000000000 songs on 32gb |
| 10:16.22 | AStorm | fasttrack grew and died too |
| 10:16.31 | AStorm | Vulcanis, no, now it's common |
| 10:16.50 | Vulcanis | Ah, I guess your right |
| 10:17.03 | Vulcanis | back then a netbook was a pda |
| 10:17.18 | Vulcanis | and had no net |
| 10:17.18 | Stskeeps | didn't fasttrack die cos many people got terribly sick of the adware? :P |
| 10:17.22 | Vulcanis | oh gods |
| 10:17.30 | Vulcanis | no wifi. wired internet on laptops |
| 10:17.32 | Stskeeps | and bittorrent came along |
| 10:17.36 | Vulcanis | what the hell did people do back then?! |
| 10:17.46 | johnx | IR :D |
| 10:17.55 | Vulcanis | IR didn't really work for webbernets |
| 10:18.07 | johnx | can IRDA to his phone from his zaurus |
| 10:18.16 | AStorm | aptops? far too expensive back then |
| 10:18.21 | AStorm | *laptops |
| 10:18.22 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@vie-086-059-090-108.dsl.sil.at) |
| 10:18.26 | Vulcanis | laptops were not! |
| 10:18.33 | Vulcanis | we had a 1500 business laptop from dell |
| 10:18.37 | Vulcanis | it was built like a brick |
| 10:18.37 | AStorm | maybe in the US |
| 10:18.44 | Vulcanis | a fragile, plastic brick |
| 10:18.54 | Vulcanis | 1500USD |
| 10:18.55 | johnx | Vulcanis, and it wasn't expensive? |
| 10:18.57 | AStorm | we got to build machines ourselves due to prices |
| 10:19.02 | Vulcanis | Johnx: Not for what laptops were |
| 10:19.09 | Stskeeps | prefers building machines too |
| 10:19.23 | Vulcanis | and it was about double a desktop back then |
| 10:19.30 | Vulcanis | building machines = cheaper and better |
| 10:19.30 | AStorm | 1500 $ of '95 was back then 4x local salary |
| 10:19.35 | AStorm | good one too |
| 10:19.42 | AStorm | or more |
| 10:21.03 | *** join/#maemo mlpug (n=mlpug@a88-115-168-225.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 10:23.15 | johnx | I link this every time the past comes up: http://web.archive.org/web/19970108031014/www.coupland.com/story7.htm |
| 10:25.17 | AStorm | paris was good |
| 10:25.26 | AStorm | try Poland or Russia at the time |
| 10:25.28 | AStorm | :P |
| 10:25.54 | AStorm | you could at least meet Lavoisier :P |
| 10:26.52 | johnx | and then die of tuberculosis at the age of 30! woo! |
| 10:27.09 | AStorm | better than dying of starvation |
| 10:27.14 | AStorm | :P |
| 10:27.36 | johnx | or better yet: not dying of either... |
| 10:27.40 | AStorm | yes, past was sucky until XX century |
| 10:28.16 | johnx | the 20th? |
| 10:28.38 | AStorm | like, at worst 1880s or so, England |
| 10:28.46 | johnx | the late 20th century was marginally bearable |
| 10:28.58 | AStorm | the early was ok too |
| 10:29.18 | AStorm | with major improvements in most parts of world |
| 10:29.23 | AStorm | or maybe, a few :P |
| 10:29.31 | AStorm | mostly US and GB |
| 10:29.32 | johnx | doctors were still more likely to kill you than fix you |
| 10:29.33 | bakarat | what's a good command line editor for maemo? |
| 10:29.36 | bakarat | nano/vim are not found? |
| 10:29.41 | AStorm | johnx, whatever |
| 10:29.48 | AStorm | but hygiene was finally existent |
| 10:29.51 | Vulcanis | vim should be there |
| 10:29.55 | johnx | bakarat, nano should be available |
| 10:30.03 | AStorm | vi is there |
| 10:30.07 | AStorm | from busybox |
| 10:30.15 | Vulcanis | vi is ebil |
| 10:30.22 | Vulcanis | vim is 19 fucking mb last I saw, though |
| 10:30.39 | Vulcanis | the package , atleast |
| 10:30.44 | AStorm | you can install nano and vim |
| 10:30.51 | AStorm | yes, so what? |
| 10:30.57 | AStorm | it's *the* editor |
| 10:30.59 | Vulcanis | huge :( |
| 10:31.07 | bakarat | i'll see if i can find nano hehe :> |
| 10:31.27 | AStorm | nano is bad due to ctrl+foo binds |
| 10:31.44 | mavhc | I use nano, if it ever got soft line wrapping it'd be good |
| 10:31.46 | AStorm | and hildon-i-m not having sticky ctrl |
| 10:32.03 | Vulcanis | well |
| 10:32.08 | Vulcanis | xterm has the ctrl thing |
| 10:32.18 | AStorm | which sucks :) |
| 10:32.23 | bakarat | i actually like the ctrl binds in nano |
| 10:32.26 | Vulcanis | its better than nothing |
| 10:32.30 | bakarat | might be slightly more annoying on the nokia device though hehe |
| 10:32.35 | Vulcanis | you won't with the nokia |
| 10:32.35 | Vulcanis | yeah |
| 10:32.38 | AStorm | vim is better than that |
| 10:32.52 | mavhc | just hold down ctrl then |
| 10:32.57 | AStorm | these 19 MB is not all that much |
| 10:33.03 | AStorm | mavhc, yeah right |
| 10:33.18 | AStorm | also, vim here now supports touchscreen some |
| 10:33.31 | AStorm | can switch tabs with clicks, and select text |
| 10:33.53 | AStorm | and have colorful syntax highlighting |
| 10:34.59 | AStorm | a win for me, now can really write code on the move |
| 10:35.12 | AStorm | (with a modified keymap) |
| 10:38.19 | johnx | I wonder how long it will be until someone really gets a mobile computer right... |
| 10:38.45 | AStorm | n810 is mostly right |
| 10:38.47 | AStorm | :) |
| 10:38.59 | AStorm | we need a foldable keyboard and screen |
| 10:39.26 | AStorm | materials aren't there yet |
| 10:39.30 | johnx | a little more expandability, more power and more battery life at full load |
| 10:40.00 | AStorm | battery life is fairly good, but those everun umpcs were much better |
| 10:40.02 | mavhc | psion's series 5 had the best keyboard |
| 10:40.07 | AStorm | though too large |
| 10:40.30 | AStorm | mavhc, hmm, no, this e60/n810 one is almost as good |
| 10:41.13 | AStorm | this part Nokia got right |
| 10:41.29 | AStorm | (except dpad and menu key :P) |
| 10:41.54 | johnx | battery life at full load isn't quite there yet, IMHO. 2 hours of really high usage is a little short |
| 10:42.02 | AStorm | 2h? meh |
| 10:42.10 | AStorm | I have 5h at worst |
| 10:42.23 | AStorm | what are you doing with it to get 2h? |
| 10:42.30 | johnx | web browsing |
| 10:42.32 | Vulcanis | quake/dn3d |
| 10:42.34 | Vulcanis | >.> |
| 10:42.35 | mavhc | psion 5 was the full size of the device as it was clamshell |
| 10:42.38 | johnx | but my battery is probably on the way out |
| 10:42.42 | Vulcanis | johnx: brightness settings? |
| 10:42.46 | AStorm | even movies don't eat it that fast |
| 10:42.54 | johnx | 20% usually |
| 10:42.59 | AStorm | web browsing with bt gives 7h |
| 10:42.59 | Vulcanis | yeah |
| 10:43.02 | Vulcanis | I run it at 10 :\ |
| 10:43.11 | Vulcanis | and I get like, 4-6 browsing |
| 10:43.12 | AStorm | I run at 20% |
| 10:43.16 | johnx | also, my battery is coming up on 2 years |
| 10:43.24 | AStorm | ah, old one |
| 10:43.29 | johnx | time for a new one I suppose :/ |
| 10:43.31 | AStorm | mine's still new |
| 10:43.49 | AStorm | you've lost 50% capacity or more |
| 10:43.55 | johnx | why are batteries so freaking expensive? >_< |
| 10:44.06 | AStorm | because they're expensive to make |
| 10:44.10 | AStorm | :P |
| 10:44.22 | johnx | bare Li-ion cells are cheap |
| 10:44.30 | AStorm | not that small cells |
| 10:44.37 | AStorm | also, n810's is li-poly |
| 10:45.00 | johnx | bleh. I'll cut a hole in the cover and attach a camcorder battery. |
| 10:45.02 | AStorm | note, these are prismatic cells, not standard packs |
| 10:45.06 | johnx | battery life problems: solved |
| 10:45.10 | AStorm | :P |
| 10:45.15 | AStorm | weight problem added |
| 10:45.20 | AStorm | and size too |
| 10:45.21 | johnx | better grip |
| 10:45.28 | AStorm | worse imo |
| 10:45.41 | AStorm | and hands would hurt |
| 10:45.50 | johnx | "tablet claw" :) |
| 10:45.53 | AStorm | it's heavy enough as it is |
| 10:46.30 | mavhc | 2 years of battery usage for $15, that's not expensive |
| 10:46.40 | johnx | $15 for a real Nokia battery? |
| 10:46.41 | AStorm | $15? where? |
| 10:46.56 | johnx | or even a 3rd part one that I have a reasonable expectation of working |
| 10:47.22 | johnx | more like $40, isn't it? |
| 10:47.26 | AStorm | $50 is plausible |
| 10:47.27 | AStorm | yes |
| 10:47.32 | mavhc | dunno, just asked froogle |
| 10:47.52 | johnx | ooh, seeing a bp-5l for $30. might have to pick that up |
| 10:47.53 | *** join/#maemo housetier (n=housetie@unaffiliated/housetier) |
| 10:48.01 | AStorm | :P |
| 10:48.21 | AStorm | see, I've bp-4l |
| 10:49.02 | mavhc | how many mAh should it be? |
| 10:49.05 | *** join/#maemo lele (n=lele@2a01:2d8:42:42:21a:92ff:fe28:ff59) |
| 10:49.18 | AStorm | 1200 or so? |
| 10:49.19 | johnx | bp-5l is 1500mAh |
| 10:49.25 | AStorm | 1150 I think |
| 10:49.30 | AStorm | ah |
| 10:49.31 | AStorm | right |
| 10:49.33 | AStorm | my bad |
| 10:49.39 | AStorm | so bp-4l is the same |
| 10:49.48 | johnx | is it? |
| 10:49.52 | AStorm | just smaller and more sturdy |
| 10:49.59 | AStorm | I can check |
| 10:50.01 | johnx | hmm...maybe that's not right |
| 10:50.03 | johnx | one sec |
| 10:50.33 | `Mace | wow |
| 10:50.40 | `Mace | i love android |
| 10:51.09 | `Mace | it really is pretty good |
| 10:51.38 | AStorm | meh |
| 10:51.43 | johnx | how's it feel in terms of screen refreshes? |
| 10:52.03 | `Mace | i dont notice it |
| 10:52.13 | `Mace | im on it now |
| 10:52.29 | `Mace | well.. on my g1/htc dream |
| 10:52.38 | mavhc | someone said that android apps, being in java, not native, would always be slower |
| 10:52.40 | johnx | aaah, I see. thought you meant on a tablet |
| 10:53.10 | `Mace | well.. they seem to run fine to me |
| 10:53.47 | AStorm | mavhc, not necessarily with thnat jazelle stuf we have |
| 10:53.51 | `Mace | i mean. what would they have to compare it to? ;) |
| 10:54.17 | AStorm | not a whole lot slower at least |
| 10:54.24 | `Mace | wish i could run it on my n800 |
| 10:54.35 | `Mace | g1 is pretty nice tho |
| 10:54.59 | johnx | jazelle apparently a) wouldn't make a huge difference and b) probably won't ever be used under linux until licensing changes |
| 10:55.08 | `Mace | i think mostly due to the os and qwerty |
| 10:55.16 | johnx | `Mace, look up NITdroid |
| 10:55.40 | `Mace | other than that it's flimsy |
| 10:56.01 | AStorm | johnx, linux license? why? |
| 10:56.10 | `Mace | my n800 became kind of irrilavent |
| 10:56.37 | johnx | AStorm, something about them never wanting the source to get out |
| 10:56.38 | `Mace | johnx . nitdroid? |
| 10:56.49 | qwerty12 | http://guug.org/nit/nitdroid/ |
| 10:56.52 | johnx | `Mace, android for the n8x0 |
| 10:56.56 | AStorm | johnx, who? sun? |
| 10:57.05 | `Mace | does it work? |
| 10:57.15 | `Mace | ;) |
| 10:57.19 | AStorm | as jazelle is not microcoded |
| 10:57.39 | qwerty12 | `Mace, if it didn't, I don't think it would be much of a project ;) |
| 10:57.39 | johnx | AStorm, it's not really java-specific. it's whoever licenses the jazelle tech. |
| 10:57.50 | AStorm | ARM inc. |
| 10:58.05 | `Mace | haha |
| 10:58.07 | AStorm | no, jazelle is just a way to run bytecode directly on cpu |
| 10:58.12 | AStorm | at least some |
| 10:58.15 | `Mace | sounds awesome |
| 10:58.23 | AStorm | a bunch of microcode |
| 10:58.35 | `Mace | ill check it out soon |
| 10:58.50 | johnx | AStorm, well there's probably a good reason that google isn't using it... |
| 10:58.55 | AStorm | apis are public, the microcode is not |
| 10:59.10 | AStorm | they aren't, because they don't have a right vm |
| 10:59.18 | AStorm | they'd have to buy one |
| 10:59.20 | *** join/#maemo yerga (n=yerga@87.223.214.207) |
| 10:59.23 | AStorm | or write one:P |
| 10:59.42 | AStorm | which is a fairly large project |
| 10:59.42 | johnx | they've strung ASM throughout that VM. writing one is not the problem |
| 10:59.50 | AStorm | hm |
| 10:59.57 | AStorm | they might be using it |
| 11:00.05 | AStorm | partially at least |
| 11:00.28 | AStorm | the big part is reducing cost of call stack handling |
| 11:00.30 | johnx | they're not |
| 11:00.35 | johnx | as of nov 12 |
| 11:00.57 | johnx | I can find the quote on licensing if you want. just a sec |
| 11:00.59 | AStorm | maybe they found it not faster than usual native arm asm |
| 11:01.09 | AStorm | gimme |
| 11:01.55 | AStorm | johnx, now I have 4h to go :> |
| 11:02.11 | AStorm | my cell phone tether will die before n810 |
| 11:02.52 | bakarat | once i download some maps, is there a way for me to plot a route on the n810? |
| 11:02.57 | bakarat | (using maemo mapper) |
| 11:03.04 | AStorm | sure |
| 11:03.12 | bakarat | i mean can i say like "from this street/city to this street/city"? |
| 11:03.14 | AStorm | you can even store the route |
| 11:03.16 | `Mace | hm |
| 11:03.17 | AStorm | yes |
| 11:03.21 | bakarat | AStorm, how? |
| 11:03.25 | `Mace | seems interesting |
| 11:03.30 | AStorm | it's in the menu |
| 11:03.35 | bakarat | atm all i can find to enter a route is a single text field that doesn't allow for streets it seems? |
| 11:03.43 | AStorm | use a comma |
| 11:03.44 | AStorm | :P |
| 11:03.48 | bakarat | ah? :D |
| 11:03.53 | AStorm | it uses Google Maps syntax |
| 11:04.04 | bakarat | i've never extensively used google maps :D |
| 11:04.06 | `Mace | well.. g1 replaced the n800 for mobile use |
| 11:04.10 | AStorm | anything Google Maps will take, it will too |
| 11:04.20 | bakarat | well that's good to know :D |
| 11:04.22 | johnx | `Mace, how's battery life? |
| 11:04.27 | bakarat | once my new batch of maps is in, i will give it a whirl AStorm :D |
| 11:04.28 | `Mace | guess i can still use the n800 at home |
| 11:04.32 | `Mace | good |
| 11:04.39 | johnx | getting through a whole day with it? |
| 11:04.40 | bakarat | also, if i tell it to download another area of maps...will it remove the previous area? |
| 11:04.43 | bakarat | or will it append? |
| 11:04.57 | AStorm | bakarat, example: London, Leicester Sq. |
| 11:05.03 | `Mace | lol |
| 11:05.07 | AStorm | can give it a number too |
| 11:05.13 | bakarat | nice :D |
| 11:05.18 | `Mace | 5 to 6 hrs of hard use |
| 11:05.34 | `Mace | uses usb cbl to charge tho |
| 11:05.41 | AStorm | `Mace, nice |
| 11:05.43 | `Mace | so that helps |
| 11:05.49 | AStorm | how's the text input? |
| 11:06.03 | AStorm | real keyboard? |
| 11:06.04 | `Mace | pretty good |
| 11:06.16 | `Mace | 5 row qwerty |
| 11:06.20 | bakarat | btw, is there a way to speed up the gps fix? |
| 11:06.22 | AStorm | nice |
| 11:06.25 | bakarat | it's slow beyond comprehension :| |
| 11:06.34 | AStorm | bakarat, install agps app from repos |
| 11:06.41 | bakarat | ah thanks :D |
| 11:06.41 | AStorm | it will help a bit |
| 11:06.42 | `Mace | buttons need some getting used to |
| 11:06.47 | jaska | the first gps fix my n810 ever got took 24h+ :D |
| 11:06.51 | jaska | nowadays its not so slow |
| 11:06.53 | AStorm | but the problem is sucky GPS chip |
| 11:06.57 | AStorm | and poor antenna |
| 11:07.01 | `Mace | interface is beautifuk |
| 11:07.05 | `Mace | er |
| 11:07.09 | `Mace | k/l |
| 11:07.10 | AStorm | it will take 1-3min |
| 11:07.11 | Vulcanis | AStorm: gps for gps |
| 11:07.15 | bakarat | AStorm, only extra repository i got enabled is "extra's" atm |
| 11:07.16 | Vulcanis | n810 for n810 things |
| 11:07.18 | bakarat | is it in one of those repo's? |
| 11:07.29 | AStorm | Vulcanis, no, Google Satellite ftw |
| 11:07.32 | X-Fade | bakarat: It is in the tableteer repo. |
| 11:07.37 | AStorm | bakarat, in extras |
| 11:07.39 | X-Fade | bakarat: Which is enabled by default. |
| 11:07.42 | `Mace | i almost wish there were an android wm for X |
| 11:07.52 | bakarat | odd |
| 11:07.52 | johnx | AStorm, can't find a quote from google, but the word seems to be that ARM won't release info on how to initialize jazelle rct to any open source group |
| 11:07.58 | AStorm | X-Fade, in tableteer now? mmh |
| 11:08.00 | `Mace | well.. bbl |
| 11:08.07 | X-Fade | AStorm: Never been in Extras. |
| 11:08.13 | bakarat | X-Fade, AStorm the package itself is called "agps" right? |
| 11:08.16 | AStorm | johnx, NDA fail, damn |
| 11:08.21 | AStorm | agps-beta |
| 11:08.22 | X-Fade | bakarat: agps-ui |
| 11:08.29 | AStorm | or that |
| 11:08.32 | AStorm | whatever |
| 11:08.37 | AStorm | search for it |
| 11:08.39 | AStorm | :) |
| 11:08.44 | bakarat | o right, has search option |
| 11:08.46 | bakarat | lol :P |
| 11:08.47 | bakarat | sorry :P |
| 11:09.03 | johnx | AStorm, word also seems to be that it's not as much of an improvement as you'd think. mainly helps with startup time or somesuch |
| 11:09.10 | X-Fade | bakarat: A-GPS in AM. |
| 11:09.19 | AStorm | johnx, meh |
| 11:09.47 | johnx | AStorm, rest assured, google would have done it if it was worth it. |
| 11:10.01 | bakarat | "no matches found" AStorm :s |
| 11:10.13 | AStorm | try a-gps |
| 11:10.31 | bakarat | "no matches found" :( |
| 11:10.39 | AStorm | because I'm in redpill (yeah, bleeding edge and all) |
| 11:10.46 | AStorm | baka |
| 11:10.57 | AStorm | bakarat, check if you have tableteer repo enabled |
| 11:11.02 | *** join/#maemo woglinde (i=woglinde@e178095190.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:11.03 | woglinde | jo |
| 11:11.06 | AStorm | also, is a-gps available for chinook? |
| 11:11.09 | johnx | yo woglinde |
| 11:11.14 | X-Fade | AStorm: no |
| 11:11.14 | Vulcanis | eww, chinook |
| 11:11.17 | AStorm | I know it's for diablo |
| 11:11.24 | AStorm | bakarat, ^ |
| 11:11.30 | X-Fade | Diablo only. |
| 11:11.33 | AStorm | so, you need diablo |
| 11:11.38 | bakarat | "nokia catalogue", "nokia catalogue (3rd party software)" "nokia system software udpates" "maemo extras" |
| 11:11.43 | AStorm | update the OS first |
| 11:11.52 | X-Fade | bakarat: It is in the first one. |
| 11:11.52 | bakarat | how do i do that? |
| 11:12.16 | AStorm | you download latest diablo image, nokia flasher etc. |
| 11:12.20 | AStorm | there's a guide somewhere |
| 11:12.23 | bakarat | o :| |
| 11:12.27 | AStorm | google it :) |
| 11:12.31 | bakarat | was hoping for apt-get dist-upgrade or something :D |
| 11:12.32 | johnx | ~flashing |
| 11:12.33 | infobot | rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 11:12.36 | Vulcanis | are you on windows, baka? |
| 11:12.38 | AStorm | yup |
| 11:12.46 | Vulcanis | because windows makes it trivial |
| 11:12.46 | bakarat | Vulcanis, linux |
| 11:12.48 | AStorm | windows flasher can flash it too |
| 11:12.54 | AStorm | linux is simple too |
| 11:13.02 | AStorm | one command shouldn't scare anyone |
| 11:13.02 | Vulcanis | well then baka, you have to go through like six more steps, but its not terribad |
| 11:13.04 | AStorm | :P |
| 11:13.09 | AStorm | six? |
| 11:13.14 | AStorm | 2 |
| 11:13.20 | bakarat | well unless it's absolutly necessary, i'd rather not reflash :D |
| 11:13.29 | AStorm | oh, 3, need a chmod +x :P |
| 11:13.29 | bakarat | i just got the device almost to the point where it has to be :D |
| 11:13.37 | bakarat | just gotta update the gps thing a bit if at all possible :p |
| 11:13.41 | AStorm | bakarat, it is necessary |
| 11:13.56 | bakarat | AStorm, do i lose extra applications/settings etc? :| |
| 11:13.59 | AStorm | hopefully the last reflash needed |
| 11:14.02 | bakarat | a reflash sounds...so terminal :| |
| 11:14.15 | X-Fade | bakarat: Just run the backup utility. |
| 11:14.16 | AStorm | settings you can back up |
| 11:14.32 | bakarat | does that include all the apps? :D |
| 11:14.36 | AStorm | some apps you'll probably have to reinstall |
| 11:14.42 | AStorm | :) |
| 11:14.54 | X-Fade | bakarat: On diablo it automatically reinstall all your apps after flash. |
| 11:15.00 | AStorm | it will attempt to install them for you |
| 11:15.11 | johnx | and the repository hell has cleared up since chinook |
| 11:15.11 | AStorm | and fail at it :P |
| 11:15.17 | AStorm | yes |
| 11:15.27 | AStorm | hopefully it'll work fine |
| 11:15.37 | johnx | most things worth having are really in extras or extras-devel now |
| 11:15.50 | AStorm | or in maemo devel |
| 11:16.01 | AStorm | uhm, maemo tools |
| 11:16.21 | bakarat | gah don't want to lose my setup (spent the last 2 days tweaking most of it :'() |
| 11:16.41 | johnx | why didn't you update before tweaking? |
| 11:16.48 | AStorm | you probably won't |
| 11:17.12 | *** part/#maemo dystopia (i=root@heresy.sbin.de) |
| 11:17.17 | AStorm | yeah, should've read the RSS |
| 11:17.33 | bakarat | i thought the n810 shipped with the latest :P |
| 11:17.35 | bakarat | i was s owrong :'( |
| 11:17.46 | Robot101 | nothing ever ships with the latest |
| 11:17.54 | bakarat | and again, i'm used to "apt-get dist-upgrade" :D |
| 11:17.56 | bakarat | not "reflash" :D |
| 11:18.02 | AStorm | almost nothing :> |
| 11:18.05 | johnx | diablo is the last reflash |
| 11:18.08 | bakarat | so i didn't think it would wipe everything i've done so far :D |
| 11:18.14 | Robot101 | there are usually about 2-3 months between the software being frozen and the devices actually hitting the shelves |
| 11:18.15 | X-Fade | bakarat: Go to diablo and it is your last reflash. |
| 11:18.15 | johnx | after that it's update from inside app manager |
| 11:18.23 | AStorm | bakarat, dist-upgrade is possible in diablo now :) |
| 11:18.27 | bakarat | yay :p |
| 11:18.34 | AStorm | but app manager can do full os upgrade now |
| 11:18.43 | Robot101 | the first devices off the production line always have some embarrassing buggy crap software, the first point release is pretty much required to make it even vaguely usable :) |
| 11:18.47 | AStorm | which is really dist-upgrade :P |
| 11:19.03 | bakarat | :> |
| 11:19.05 | AStorm | Robot101, well, mine shipped with fairly ok chinook version |
| 11:19.17 | AStorm | though not latest |
| 11:19.20 | johnx | except that if you enable weird repos and try to dist-upgrade you may be in trouble |
| 11:19.22 | bakarat | well it will have to wait at least until the maps are in :P |
| 11:19.23 | Robot101 | and some S60 phones stay buggy and crap even after you've reflashed them :D |
| 11:19.29 | bakarat | 200 meg over wifi on the n810 takes aaaaaaaaaaaaaaages |
| 11:20.04 | AStorm | johnx, but the same can be told about app manager updatge :> |
| 11:20.23 | AStorm | bakarat, why? it can easily do 5-11Mbit |
| 11:20.31 | johnx | AStorm, it's generally more likely to succeed than dist-upgrade |
| 11:20.31 | bakarat | AStorm, i have no clue :| |
| 11:20.32 | AStorm | that's nowhere near ages |
| 11:20.52 | AStorm | and you have to flash from the PC using usb cable |
| 11:21.09 | bakarat | AStorm, ye but the device is still busy :p |
| 11:21.09 | AStorm | local flash messes up always for me |
| 11:21.11 | AStorm | :P |
| 11:21.13 | bakarat | i installed iptraf to try and check the speed |
| 11:21.22 | bakarat | but...i can't find the app atm :p |
| 11:21.27 | AStorm | mhm |
| 11:21.35 | AStorm | run it from terminal, as root |
| 11:21.44 | bakarat | -sh: iptraf: not found |
| 11:21.47 | AStorm | it's /usr/sbin/iptraf |
| 11:21.57 | AStorm | also, as I said, you need root |
| 11:22.02 | bakarat | righty-o |
| 11:22.12 | bakarat | this program requires a screen size of at least 80 columns by 24 lines :| |
| 11:22.17 | bakarat | hmmz :| |
| 11:22.50 | AStorm | reduce font size then |
| 11:22.59 | bakarat | how do i do that? |
| 11:23.03 | AStorm | I normally use 14pt |
| 11:23.13 | AStorm | try zoom key for simple way |
| 11:23.23 | AStorm | and options for a permanent change |
| 11:23.23 | bakarat | o |
| 11:23.39 | AStorm | hmm |
| 11:23.47 | AStorm | I'm using 12pt actually |
| 11:23.56 | bakarat | hmm, the zoom thing isn't working i think |
| 11:24.01 | AStorm | DejaVu Sans Mono 12 ftw |
| 11:24.02 | bakarat | i've zoomed out to something that is near illegible |
| 11:24.04 | bakarat | still doesn't work :| |
| 11:24.13 | AStorm | run reset |
| 11:24.27 | AStorm | (in the terminal) |
| 11:24.33 | bakarat | o wait, got it now |
| 11:24.40 | bakarat | it's incomprehensibly small now though :D |
| 11:24.54 | AStorm | so increase by a step |
| 11:25.04 | AStorm | or use Tools_>Settings |
| 11:25.32 | bakarat | 40.20 kb/s |
| 11:25.38 | bakarat | 33.4 |
| 11:25.43 | bakarat | :| |
| 11:25.53 | AStorm | weird |
| 11:26.04 | AStorm | maybe nokia's server is overloaded |
| 11:26.11 | AStorm | or your route is bad :P |
| 11:26.17 | bakarat | it should be downloading from the openstreet maps thingy right? |
| 11:26.20 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@44.84-49-128.nextgentel.com) |
| 11:26.23 | AStorm | hm? |
| 11:26.28 | bakarat | i'm downloading maps? |
| 11:26.38 | AStorm | weird |
| 11:26.40 | bakarat | bout 200 megs worth of them |
| 11:26.43 | AStorm | unless you're moving |
| 11:26.58 | bakarat | not really :| |
| 11:27.08 | AStorm | or set a manual download |
| 11:27.15 | bakarat | nop |
| 11:27.21 | AStorm | then close mapper |
| 11:27.26 | johnx | I blame your router |
| 11:27.32 | bakarat | i'd rather not, he's bout 3/4 through it now :D |
| 11:27.46 | AStorm | you don't want that many maps |
| 11:27.50 | bakarat | johnx, i use the same wireless connection on 2 laptops |
| 11:27.52 | bakarat | no problem |
| 11:27.55 | bakarat | (both laptops are off atm :p) |
| 11:28.04 | johnx | your laptops don't use wifi powersaving as much |
| 11:28.09 | AStorm | it will work slow (as mapper is inefficient at handling a large number of maps) |
| 11:28.14 | bakarat | o :| |
| 11:28.16 | bakarat | crap :( |
| 11:28.24 | bakarat | but i need to travel within a certain area for my job |
| 11:28.27 | bakarat | so i wanted that area :( |
| 11:28.30 | AStorm | you want to download ondemand |
| 11:28.37 | AStorm | or you can download along a route |
| 11:28.40 | AStorm | :) |
| 11:28.51 | AStorm | also, you probably don't need all zoom levels |
| 11:28.52 | bakarat | download on demand is not possible (i think) since i don't have internet on the road |
| 11:28.58 | AStorm | mhm |
| 11:29.00 | bakarat | download along a route is all fine n dandy until you stray :D |
| 11:29.20 | AStorm | so download a small area at large scale |
| 11:29.36 | AStorm | and large area at small scale |
| 11:29.51 | bakarat | by small scale, you mean...like 15 and by large scale like 6? :P |
| 11:29.53 | bakarat | or the other way around? :p |
| 11:29.59 | AStorm | yes |
| 11:30.01 | bakarat | k :p |
| 11:30.06 | AStorm | although 15 is overkill |
| 11:30.13 | AStorm | imo 13 is the smallest useful |
| 11:30.19 | bakarat | atm i'm downloading 6-8-10-12 |
| 11:30.28 | AStorm | ok |
| 11:30.32 | AStorm | esp. 6 takes a lot |
| 11:30.33 | bakarat | of the "big" area :p |
| 11:30.45 | bakarat | ye, but without street level precision, there is not much use to a gps :D |
| 11:30.50 | AStorm | I only grab the low levels around cities |
| 11:30.51 | bakarat | otherwise i might just take a compass along :D |
| 11:30.56 | AStorm | 8 is enough |
| 11:31.01 | *** join/#maemo Meiz_n810 (n=Meizirkk@dsl-lhtbrasgw2-fe2cf800-231.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 11:31.16 | AStorm | see it yourself |
| 11:31.23 | bakarat | i will once the damn download is done :D |
| 11:31.35 | bakarat | device is rather slow while it's busy downloading it seems |
| 11:31.38 | AStorm | and i've whole country at 12 :P |
| 11:31.47 | bakarat | :> |
| 11:31.52 | AStorm | nah, because mapper is fsyncing to hell |
| 11:31.59 | AStorm | and making immc busy |
| 11:32.07 | *** join/#maemo Ulysses222 (n=daniel@bzq-79-176-141-28.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 11:32.07 | bakarat | o |
| 11:32.10 | AStorm | which asserts irqs |
| 11:32.20 | bakarat | any idea why the wifi is so slow btw? |
| 11:32.29 | AStorm | wifi isn't |
| 11:32.32 | bakarat | (except a router problem which i doubt a bit) |
| 11:32.40 | AStorm | unless cpu can't keep up |
| 11:32.41 | bakarat | well anything i do over wifi is slow, not only mapper |
| 11:32.44 | AStorm | which is unlikely |
| 11:32.45 | X-Fade | bakarat: You aren't downloading one big file, but 100000 small files. |
| 11:32.49 | AStorm | yes |
| 11:32.59 | AStorm | a large number of tiny files |
| 11:33.19 | AStorm | check vs some speedtest |
| 11:33.25 | johnx | bakarat, you could try disabling wifi power saving and see if things improve. if they do it's your router's fault |
| 11:33.28 | bakarat | guys, thanks for all the feedback, but i'm going to get something to eat :D |
| 11:33.38 | bakarat | johnx, will try that :> |
| 11:33.38 | X-Fade | So you are seeing a lot of small requests which all have a round trip, the app has to save these files to the FS, which takes a lot more time and cpu than one big one. |
| 11:33.55 | AStorm | also, note that immc can do only 500 KB/s |
| 11:34.01 | bakarat | o |
| 11:34.06 | johnx | also, it's mounted sync, isn't it? |
| 11:34.13 | AStorm | you need to write to a real card to dl faster |
| 11:34.15 | bakarat | dnno |
| 11:34.24 | AStorm | johnx, yes |
| 11:34.34 | bakarat | bbl guys :D |
| 11:34.39 | bakarat | again thanks for everything! :> |
| 11:35.44 | AStorm | sync doesn't slow down in case of normal download |
| 11:35.54 | AStorm | if the card can keep up |
| 11:38.01 | johnx | makes things more flexible though to let the kernel pick when to do I/O |
| 11:40.04 | *** join/#maemo Navi (n=navi@unaffiliated/navi) |
| 11:40.27 | AStorm | johnx, yup |
| 11:40.41 | AStorm | and esp. as stupid mapper fsyncs to hell |
| 11:40.51 | AStorm | (actually, stupid sqlite) |
| 11:41.31 | johnx | I wonder how hard it would be to bring the newer maptile picture storage system to the newest maemo-mapper |
| 11:41.49 | *** join/#maemo Sho_ (n=EHS1@kde/hein) |
| 11:45.08 | *** join/#maemo beavis (n=mk@p5B047A04.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:45.11 | *** join/#maemo eton_ (n=eton@ppp-58-8-8-241.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 11:47.09 | AStorm | johnx, moderately easy |
| 11:47.33 | AStorm | still, the author opposes it |
| 11:47.35 | AStorm | for no real reason |
| 11:47.37 | RST38h | johnx: what is wrong with the old one? |
| 11:47.47 | RST38h | remembers it changing at least once |
| 11:47.57 | johnx | RST38h, the oldest one? with a bunch of tiny files? |
| 11:48.08 | RST38h | guess so |
| 11:48.31 | johnx | there've been 3: tiny maptiles as pics, bigger maptiles as pics and an sqlite db |
| 11:48.36 | RST38h | an obscure bug in an old version of the Symbian OS could allow an attacker to crash a target's mobile phone with a specially-formatted text message. |
| 11:48.45 | RST38h | johnx: current one is the db? |
| 11:48.49 | johnx | yeah |
| 11:48.58 | johnx | and the one I like is the biggish maptiles as pics |
| 11:49.12 | johnx | but it was a random fork by some guy who only made one patch to one version |
| 11:49.29 | johnx | still, the speed improvement seems well worth it |
| 11:49.48 | RST38h | Enjoy: http://berlin.ccc.de/~tobias/cos/s60-curse-of-silence-advisory.txt |
| 11:50.15 | johnx | meh. saw it a while ago. is there an update to fix it? |
| 11:50.16 | RST38h | johnx: What is the original author's reason for opposing it? |
| 11:50.22 | RST38h | There is none |
| 11:50.38 | johnx | I think he likes the db solution |
| 11:50.54 | johnx | keeps your card nice and clean |
| 11:51.13 | RST38h | What about storing bigger tiles in db? |
| 11:51.53 | johnx | as in joining the maptiles, then storing them in the db? |
| 11:52.29 | johnx | I dunno specifics |
| 11:52.45 | AStorm | but sqlite is stupid fsync abuser |
| 11:53.08 | AStorm | any db that tries to do ACID using fsync is stupid |
| 11:53.41 | AStorm | it is not an api that guarantees anything |
| 11:53.55 | AStorm | in fact, Unix allows fsync to be noop |
| 11:53.58 | AStorm | :P |
| 11:54.39 | AStorm | and ext filesystems batch fsyncs up to its commit time |
| 11:54.40 | *** join/#maemo gnutonio (n=gnuton@host110-248-dynamic.37-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 11:54.51 | johnx | then maybe the answer is for fsync to be a noop :> |
| 11:54.55 | AStorm | while xfs and reiserfs ignore it |
| 11:55.22 | AStorm | also, fsync is bad for multiuser systems |
| 11:55.28 | AStorm | (if implemented) |
| 11:56.53 | AStorm | db people should be beaten with a posix stick :) |
| 11:57.32 | AStorm | or a 1-ton unix manual |
| 11:58.56 | johnx | lots of people need to be hit with the unix stick |
| 11:59.44 | AStorm | e.g. emacs by default does fsync if backups are enabled |
| 11:59.47 | AStorm | evil :> |
| 12:04.53 | *** join/#maemo gpd (n=gpd@www.grahamdavies.net) |
| 12:05.33 | gpd | maemo-mapper 2.53 seems VERY slow to render maps on N800 - is it just me? takes 7-10 seconds to do a full screen pan! |
| 12:06.13 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_ (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 12:06.47 | gpd | i deleted the database and tried on mmc versus /home/user - makes no difference |
| 12:08.47 | AStorm | hm |
| 12:08.57 | AStorm | I don't recall any changes in rendering code |
| 12:09.10 | AStorm | other than disabling bilinear smoothing |
| 12:09.28 | gpd | AStorm: what sort of speed do you get? |
| 12:09.34 | AStorm | and switching rotation code to simple 15 degree |
| 12:09.38 | AStorm | I have n810 |
| 12:10.08 | gpd | I thought n800 and n810 were same spec processor? |
| 12:10.43 | qwerty12_ | They are. The N800 was limited to 330MHZ in OS2007 |
| 12:10.46 | gpd | are there any optimisations that can be done at user level? eg. turning off rotation or something? |
| 12:11.17 | gpd | I am running latest OS2008 on the N800 with relatively clean install. |
| 12:11.44 | gpd | apart from installing sequentially from 2.2 upwards --- not sure what else i can do |
| 12:11.51 | gpd | any other tips? |
| 12:12.25 | gpd | i don't think it is just rendering - even downloading maps (5mbytes) is taking about 10 minutes! |
| 12:12.44 | gpd | i thought the map DB might be corrupt - but deleting it should have fixed that |
| 12:13.11 | gpd | i thought loading maps from the SD cards might be slower - but it doesn't seem to make much difference. |
| 12:13.42 | gpd | the only other thing is that i have quite a lot of POI points - maybe 200 -- would that affect things? |
| 12:26.29 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 12:30.36 | *** join/#maemo bilboed-tipi (n=bilboed@187.99.200-77.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 12:30.37 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (n=murrayc@dslb-084-056-011-194.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:37.12 | *** join/#maemo wms (n=wms___@198.146.5.167) |
| 12:40.12 | kulve | is there an example how the extras-devel .install file should look like? |
| 12:40.42 | kulve | e.g. qt4 project seems to have this line there: |
| 12:40.44 | kulve | name = maemo Extras-Devell |
| 12:40.51 | qwerty12_N800 | kulve, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/diablo/install/ |
| 12:40.58 | kulve | which I guess adds a separate extras-devell repo.. |
| 12:41.35 | woglinde | kulve the moo.install file is only for packing |
| 12:41.54 | kulve | packing? |
| 12:42.15 | woglinde | it tells the debian packaging utils which files should be installed where |
| 12:42.31 | kulve | I think we are now discussing about the other .install file |
| 12:42.39 | kulve | i.e. maemo .install, not debian .install |
| 12:44.11 | AStorm | the repo one? dl one from gronmayer :) |
| 12:44.31 | woglinde | kulve aehm this files seems to be generated automagicly |
| 12:44.43 | woglinde | I never defined something |
| 12:44.45 | woglinde | in my app |
| 12:44.48 | woglinde | and its there |
| 12:45.05 | *** join/#maemo lool (n=lool@debian/developer/lool) |
| 12:45.06 | qwerty12_N800 | <qwerty12_N800> kulve, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/diablo/install/ *cough* |
| 12:45.23 | kulve | qwerty12_N800: yes, I copied one from there as an example. Thanks. |
| 12:46.11 | kulve | ah |
| 12:46.13 | kulve | now I see.. |
| 12:46.19 | kulve | so that file in that repo is autogenerated? |
| 12:46.23 | kulve | and I should point to it.. |
| 12:46.52 | woglinde | kulve when you upload a package to devel-extras |
| 12:46.55 | kulve | yes |
| 12:47.00 | woglinde | you do not need extra .install file |
| 12:47.05 | kulve | yeah, I noticed |
| 12:47.28 | woglinde | people who use extras-devel already have the installer line |
| 12:47.47 | qwerty12_N800 | Well, strictly speaking, if you are adding a package to the maemo catalog, it should only install from the extras repo |
| 12:48.08 | kulve | how does the statistics -stuff work? I have an entry in maemo.org/downloads and I have uploaded the packages to extras-devel. But how do I say which packages belong to that entry? |
| 12:49.07 | qwerty12_N800 | I think you only define one package as part of the unix name |
| 12:50.23 | kulve | the project name is "ogg" and the debian package name is "ogg-support".. |
| 12:51.33 | qwerty12_N800 | the unix name on your application listing should be the same as the package name, i think it says that when adding the entry |
| 12:52.03 | kulve | then it wouldn't match the garage.maemo.org page.. |
| 12:52.45 | kulve | "Please use the same name as you use for your debian package." |
| 12:52.48 | kulve | I'll change it.. |
| 12:55.09 | *** join/#maemo housetier (n=housetie@unaffiliated/housetier) |
| 12:59.00 | *** join/#maemo zap (n=zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net) |
| 13:02.23 | woglinde | bye |
| 13:02.46 | *** join/#maemo Zakkm (n=user@CPE0013f7b6e1a2-CM0013f7b6e19e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 13:16.59 | t_s_o | hmm, running android on a netbook, cute |
| 13:17.19 | AStorm | meh, netbooks are made obsolete with n810 |
| 13:17.20 | GAN800 | shudders at upgrade misinformation. |
| 13:17.26 | AStorm | and a good desktop-laptop |
| 13:17.44 | GAN800 | apt-get dist-upgrade is one quick way to reboot loop land |
| 13:17.44 | lcuk | what if netbooks all come with touchscreens? |
| 13:17.44 | AStorm | GAN800, hm? |
| 13:17.53 | AStorm | GAN800, not in diablo |
| 13:18.00 | GAN800 | Yes, in Diablo. |
| 13:18.12 | GAN800 | AStorm, please don't tell people it's safe. |
| 13:18.16 | AStorm | lcuk, they don't, and n810 is still better |
| 13:18.18 | GAN800 | Because it's not. |
| 13:18.22 | AStorm | GAN800, did it, works |
| 13:18.30 | AStorm | you must have some dodgy repo on |
| 13:18.33 | GAN800 | Not with the SDK repo |
| 13:18.33 | AStorm | :P |
| 13:18.36 | AStorm | ahha |
| 13:18.42 | AStorm | your fail |
| 13:18.44 | AStorm | .P |
| 13:18.50 | RST38h | moos at lcuk woefully |
| 13:18.58 | GAN800 | Which Fring and others add in their .installs |
| 13:19.06 | GAN800 | Not my fail |
| 13:19.08 | AStorm | bad people |
| 13:19.13 | AStorm | still yours |
| 13:19.14 | AStorm | :) |
| 13:19.20 | lcuk | AStorm, agreed, carrying round and using a bigger device feels wrong - i feel like a midget when i pickup my tabletpc and try to use it like my nokia |
| 13:19.21 | AStorm | disable it when not needed |
| 13:19.25 | RST38h | lcuk: May I tell you a story? =) |
| 13:19.44 | alterego | yawns |
| 13:19.48 | GAN800 | AStorm, I'm so glad it works for you, but I don't want to clean up the mess when some newbie who tried Fring follows your 'advice' |
| 13:19.54 | AStorm | lcuk, and a powerful laptop for times when you need power |
| 13:20.03 | AStorm | GAN800, I didn't advise it |
| 13:20.26 | GAN800 | AStorm, you claimed it was safe. |
| 13:20.34 | GAN800 | It is not. |
| 13:20.34 | lcuk | AStorm, i never need power when on the move |
| 13:20.37 | lcuk | of course RST38h |
| 13:20.54 | GAN800 | I'd ask you not to make the same claim in the future |
| 13:21.17 | GAN800 | and also to not assume things about what I have and have not done. :) |
| 13:21.26 | RST38h | lcuk: When I was 16 years old I wanted to write an operating syste, |
| 13:21.30 | Stskeeps | johnx: how's the start up thing going? |
| 13:21.49 | RST38h | lcuk: Mighty and powerful, with windowed console output, unified device API etc |
| 13:22.34 | RST38h | lcuk: And even wrote about 30% of it before the tape wore out and took all my work away |
| 13:22.35 | *** join/#maemo andre___ (n=andre@g224236074.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 13:23.29 | *** join/#maemo Zakkm (n=user@CPE0013f7b6e1a2-CM0013f7b6e19e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 13:23.35 | RST38h | lcuk: About 10 years later, the topic came up in a conversation with a good friend, we talked about it in details, what we would have in a modern os, then pulled out a laptop, and started writing |
| 13:23.55 | RST38h | lcuk: In about 3 hours one of us suddenly asked "And why the fuck are we doing it?" |
| 13:24.38 | RST38h | lcuk: And we stopped. The idea still comes up every now and then, but one of us always reiterates the question and, mercifully, kills it dead until the next time. |
| 13:25.18 | alterego | Did you base your OS on a pre-existing kernel? |
| 13:25.35 | RST38h | alterego: There weren't such a sthing as a pre existing kernel at that time |
| 13:25.43 | alterego | Oh |
| 13:25.50 | RST38h | It was 1989-1990, in USSR |
| 13:25.59 | alterego | I didn't realise it was in the dark ages :P |
| 13:26.01 | derf | So you did this in the 60's? |
| 13:26.11 | derf | BSD and Mach have been around for a long time. |
| 13:26.15 | johnx | Stskeeps, packaged. wanna see if I can get a first-run-wizard working |
| 13:26.38 | RST38h | derf: not on an 8080-based system with 32kB RAM, TV for output and a walkman for input |
| 13:26.51 | RST38h | But it is all pretty much beside the point. |
| 13:27.00 | *** join/#maemo chandoo (n=chandoo@ool-4353bb46.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 13:28.45 | *** join/#maemo lmoura (n=lauro@189.81.203.14) |
| 13:28.58 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (n=pupnik@pD95FEF8B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:28.59 | lcuk | RST38h, i dont want an OS. i want fast fluid applications on my tablet |
| 13:29.24 | johnx | my only advice is: follow the Unix way and everything else will work itself out |
| 13:29.46 | lcuk | agreed entirely |
| 13:30.09 | johnx | I think splitting it into separate parts will help a lot with popularity |
| 13:30.29 | johnx | I also think I'm going to go to the store and buy a box of cookies |
| 13:30.31 | *** join/#maemo chandoo- (n=chandoo@ool-4353bb46.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 13:30.32 | johnx | back in 6min |
| 13:30.37 | lcuk | heh |
| 13:30.50 | Zakkm | quick |
| 13:31.29 | johnx | er...maybe more like 10min actually. doctor said no running for a while :( |
| 13:32.23 | AStorm | hehe |
| 13:32.29 | AStorm | Unix way is unfortunately ignored a lot nowadays |
| 13:32.32 | AStorm | as in many small tools |
| 13:33.19 | lcuk | johnx, for when you get back : how can i do as quick and simple as i want when the OS wont let me? |
| 13:33.50 | RST38h | lcuk: you only have ONE application. you have to figure out for yourself what this application is. |
| 13:34.05 | RST38h | lcuk: And stop there. |
| 13:34.16 | RST38h | obviously check out iTT :) |
| 13:34.19 | RST38h | checked |
| 13:36.46 | lcuk | RST38h, i have ideas which span many applications and simply lack the knowledge to push the improvements into the core. |
| 13:38.19 | lcuk | and from a purely personal perspective, I've got what I need already : a base to write anything I want from |
| 13:40.31 | alterego | wonders if he'll ever be finished tweaking the packaging system. |
| 13:40.38 | johnx | lcuk, ah, and here's where the unix philosophy makes you and RST38h happy: make a small tool that does one thing well |
| 13:40.45 | johnx | if you need more than one thing, make another tool |
| 13:41.02 | alterego | Actually that's not lcuk's philosophy :P |
| 13:41.09 | lcuk | yeah johnx, ive got hundreds os stand alone projects here, some more developer than others |
| 13:41.12 | johnx | alterego, not yet :) |
| 13:41.18 | lcuk | hundreds of ^ |
| 13:41.25 | RST38h | lcuk: Choose ONE. |
| 13:41.26 | lcuk | i hate having everything in one bundle |
| 13:41.26 | alterego | liqbase is one application :P |
| 13:41.29 | RST38h | And finish it. |
| 13:41.33 | lcuk | it makes it a nightmare to think about |
| 13:41.47 | lcuk | RST38h, i fuffing cant without a library |
| 13:42.03 | lcuk | if i had a library i could make a tiny liqsketch and finish it |
| 13:42.08 | johnx | and hence the proliferation of libraries in the Unix world :) |
| 13:42.14 | lcuk | until then everything is under the same umbrella and gets improved together |
| 13:42.23 | johnx | and the proliferation of apps that include their own mail client in the windows world |
| 13:42.58 | lcuk | same with linux isnt it |
| 13:43.42 | RST38h | lcuk: You already have the code, make it a library. |
| 13:43.50 | RST38h | What exactly is the problem? |
| 13:43.57 | lcuk | if i had been happy with using gtk and cairo and could get kinetic i wouldv, and ive hated every single step ive taken from the day i started on the YUV implementation, but the simple fact is the path is there |
| 13:44.08 | johnx | lcuk, it is apparent in some apps. which ones are you thinking of? open office? |
| 13:44.57 | lcuk | how many webbrowsers are we at currently? |
| 13:45.04 | AStorm | lcuk, heck, I had to change my nifty fast update to a sligtly slower one |
| 13:45.27 | gladiac | btw. is ther are libv4l available for maemo? |
| 13:45.39 | AStorm | because stupid gtkImage doesn't do image replacement properly |
| 13:45.42 | johnx | lcuk, for the most part though: they're just web browsers. sure linux has more than one of the same tool, but it's not a tool out to solve all your problems |
| 13:45.48 | RST38h | lcuk: Then just live without gtk and cairo |
| 13:45.54 | AStorm | johnx, not browsers |
| 13:46.02 | RST38h | lcuk: Use what you have. |
| 13:46.03 | AStorm | they actually embed IE or OE |
| 13:46.05 | lcuk | AStorm, but the book reader wouldnt work |
| 13:46.07 | johnx | AStorm, nature of the beast I've decided |
| 13:46.51 | RST38h | is exhausted by fighting ALSA. Why is all this grotesque non-working shit there? |
| 13:46.51 | lcuk | if mplayer used only the normal methods it wouldnt play movies |
| 13:47.02 | AStorm | nah |
| 13:47.05 | RST38h | Why can't these people just give me a ring buffer? |
| 13:47.08 | AStorm | it could |
| 13:47.23 | AStorm | ring? no, it's a linear fb |
| 13:47.38 | RST38h | I do not want their underrun handling. I do not want their reporting functions, their write functions, etc. |
| 13:47.39 | AStorm | you can't have a ring buffer, only a linear one |
| 13:47.51 | RST38h | AStorm: ALSA has nothing to do with fb |
| 13:47.56 | AStorm | ah that |
| 13:48.02 | RST38h | AStorm: it is a freaking audio API |
| 13:48.04 | AStorm | DirectX uses ring buffrs |
| 13:48.10 | AStorm | it sucks :P |
| 13:48.31 | AStorm | you n*don't* want an unknown size buffer |
| 13:48.40 | AStorm | and callback api is fine |
| 13:48.46 | AStorm | (a'la jack) |
| 13:49.00 | johnx | lcuk, it's not about using the normal methods or not. I'm not talking about dropping YUV rendering or even using 3rd party libs. All I mean is what you're already planning on: factor out libliqbase and make liqsketch, liqreader, etc separate apps |
| 13:49.18 | RST38h | "Comparing to OSS API, ALSA API has inteligent ring buffer management for the mmaped access. Application must start snd_pcm_mmap_begin() to obtain the location where to store / get samples to / from and when work is finished with given sample region, snd_pcm_mmap_commit() must be called to move sample pointers in the ring buffer. " |
| 13:49.29 | lcuk | johnx, yes that is the roadmap 100% |
| 13:49.51 | AStorm | RST38h, what they don't tell is that most cards can't do mmap access |
| 13:49.53 | RST38h | Fucking idiots, why do I even need this "location" if it has no relation to the actual ring buffer? |
| 13:49.59 | AStorm | and dmix 100% can't |
| 13:50.03 | AStorm | so ignore it |
| 13:50.07 | RST38h | AStorm: They are not doing real direct access |
| 13:50.32 | RST38h | AStorm: It is not really mmap access, it is some temp buffer they have got inside alsa |
| 13:50.54 | AStorm | that's why you have to write some blocks |
| 13:50.59 | AStorm | and commit |
| 13:51.15 | AStorm | then alse cuts it to blocks and sends to soundcard |
| 13:52.07 | RST38h | I do not have a sound card. That is the funniest thing. |
| 13:52.12 | AStorm | one bonus is that you don't theoretically have to care about block size |
| 13:52.17 | RST38h | A have a normal DMAble ring buffer in sdram |
| 13:52.23 | AStorm | whatever |
| 13:52.32 | AStorm | still have to commit |
| 13:52.35 | lcuk | RST38h, back when i started, the "linux way" made it very complex to build things due to the amount of knowledge required. i have been happily tucked away inside VB for years now insulated from the command line and with a very quick simple way to create a new project. the closest to that i could get with liqbase was to just add another standalone module to liqbase and add it to the menu with liqXXXXX_run(); calls |
| 13:52.36 | AStorm | part of api |
| 13:52.55 | AStorm | commit every some bytes and you'll be fine |
| 13:53.09 | RST38h | AStorm: I am not even using mmap api because it is useless |
| 13:53.20 | AStorm | pointless, not useless |
| 13:53.21 | AStorm | :) |
| 13:53.27 | RST38h | AStorm: The problem is that even normal (non-mmap) API clicks and hangs after a few restarts |
| 13:53.27 | AStorm | it can be used |
| 13:53.34 | AStorm | hmm? |
| 13:53.38 | AStorm | weird |
| 13:53.47 | RST38h | And nobody gives me access to the hardware |
| 13:53.54 | RST38h | All I have got is a buggy ALSA implementation |
| 13:54.03 | AStorm | what is the device you're using? |
| 13:54.07 | johnx | wait, are we talking about alsa on the tablet? |
| 13:54.17 | AStorm | tablet has fine alsa support |
| 13:54.19 | AStorm | :P |
| 13:54.25 | alterego | gstreamre ftw! |
| 13:54.26 | AStorm | working too |
| 13:54.27 | RST38h | johnx: No. STMP37xx chip. |
| 13:54.33 | AStorm | mhm |
| 13:54.35 | johnx | AStorm, that's a nice dream |
| 13:54.37 | AStorm | a DAC |
| 13:54.43 | AStorm | johnx, no, really |
| 13:54.49 | AStorm | in new linux-omap |
| 13:55.02 | johnx | AStorm, aaah, I meant in 2.6.21 |
| 13:55.08 | AStorm | 2.6.24-omap had working alsa last I tried |
| 13:55.19 | *** join/#maemo danilocesar (n=danilo@200.184.118.130) |
| 13:55.34 | alterego | AStorm: he's not saying it doesn't work. He's saying he doesn't like it's API |
| 13:55.42 | RST38h | "working ALSA" is a vague description |
| 13:55.43 | AStorm | meh, api's ok |
| 13:55.44 | johnx | AStorm, I thought you meant Nokia's alsa->DSP was "fine" |
| 13:55.52 | RST38h | ALSA API has dozens of functions |
| 13:56.04 | AStorm | yes, and the kitchen sink |
| 13:56.19 | AStorm | and many advanced features have to be tested for |
| 13:56.23 | alterego | RST38h: if you're that unhappy with ALSA, write something better .. |
| 13:56.48 | derf | Yes, clearly Linux needs another audio API. |
| 13:57.04 | AStorm | at least ALSA is not lowest common denominator api |
| 13:57.24 | AStorm | you can use all features of a card with it |
| 13:57.28 | RST38h | alterego: I have no choice. |
| 13:57.33 | RST38h | ALSA is what I have got |
| 13:57.41 | AStorm | unlike OSS 4 |
| 13:57.46 | RST38h | derf: Linux needs a massacre or two |
| 13:57.57 | AStorm | or certain other high level apis like PortAudio |
| 13:57.59 | johnx | woo! it's a massacre! |
| 13:58.36 | RST38h | derf: With people writing "another audio APIs" first in line for execution |
| 13:59.01 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@201-27-57-217.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 13:59.12 | AStorm | RST38h, hmm? |
| 13:59.28 | alterego | I must have compiled these packages a hundred times now ^_^ |
| 13:59.31 | AStorm | yes, we need one and only API |
| 13:59.43 | AStorm | ALSA is fit for the task |
| 14:00.07 | AStorm | OSS should die :> |
| 14:01.04 | RST38h | AStorm: You already have one and only API - /dev/dsp |
| 14:01.12 | AStorm | no |
| 14:01.14 | AStorm | it sucks |
| 14:01.20 | RST38h | AStorm: If you really dislike it, use BSD's /dev/pcm or even Sun's /dev/audio. |
| 14:01.24 | AStorm | provides no latency info for one |
| 14:01.36 | RST38h | AStorm: it does |
| 14:01.39 | AStorm | no idea of buffering |
| 14:01.48 | RST38h | AStorm: orly? =) |
| 14:01.51 | AStorm | really |
| 14:01.56 | AStorm | it has to die |
| 14:02.12 | AStorm | you can't code any non-trivial audio app with these |
| 14:02.19 | RST38h | AStorm: I mean, when you tell /dev/dsp the buffer size and the number of segments, it is not buffering? |
| 14:02.39 | AStorm | you do, but then you don't know anything about underruns |
| 14:04.44 | RST38h | AStorm: add an ioctl. ONE ioctl, not ten |
| 14:06.09 | AStorm | ten? since when you need 10 ioctls in alsa? |
| 14:06.43 | AStorm | no, you don't have to implement every feature it has |
| 14:07.28 | AStorm | anyway |
| 14:07.36 | AStorm | needs a nap |
| 14:07.59 | *** join/#maemo housetier (n=housetie@unaffiliated/housetier) |
| 14:09.54 | *** join/#maemo lmoura (n=lmoura@200.184.118.130) |
| 14:11.28 | *** join/#maemo murrayc_ (n=murrayc@host-88-217-185-158.customer.m-online.net) |
| 14:12.47 | RST38h | ALSA actually has more than ten |
| 14:14.04 | bakarat | how exactly do the POI work in maemo mapper? |
| 14:14.17 | bakarat | i entered a few lists containing the speed traps for different speed limits in my country |
| 14:14.29 | bakarat | they seem to be loaded, but i can't "see" them? |
| 14:14.34 | bakarat | is there a way to show them by icon or something? |
| 14:14.40 | bakarat | or do you get an auditive reminder? |
| 14:16.04 | *** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoasb-ff0ddd00-14.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:17.24 | bakarat | o wait, that's odd...it seems that the POI are placed wrong, they show up near adis abeba whilst they should be in western europe :p |
| 14:18.17 | bakarat | i used garmin csv file of the locations and "gpsbabel" to convert |
| 14:18.23 | bakarat | maybe it mixed up long & lat or something? |
| 14:20.03 | *** join/#maemo Stslaptop (n=foo@84.238.94.136) |
| 14:24.05 | RST38h | seems to have coerced ALSA into the ring buffer mode |
| 14:24.45 | *** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoasb-ff0ddd00-14.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:24.51 | RST38h | urgh, what a messy piece of shit :( like the old OSS API having a cancer. |
| 14:33.03 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@vie-213-129-228-010.dsl.sil.at) |
| 14:36.41 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-53-225.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net) |
| 14:49.57 | ShadowJK | RST38h, yes |
| 14:51.48 | ShadowJK | Sun's /dev/audio is nice |
| 14:52.05 | ShadowJK | and it does give you buffering and latency |
| 14:52.18 | ShadowJK | With alsa it's a bit of a hit and miss whether you get usable buffering info :-) |
| 14:52.36 | *** join/#maemo _matthias_ (n=matthias@w216-2.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 14:53.14 | johnx | alsa supports a wider variety of hardware devices though. I always imagined that was the reason it was more complicated |
| 14:53.26 | ShadowJK | nah |
| 14:53.38 | johnx | such as A2DP headphones |
| 14:54.28 | RST38h | Highly localized aurora borealis: http://victorprofessor.livejournal.com/83680.html |
| 14:54.39 | RST38h | (in case you wonder, no, not real aurora) |
| 14:54.53 | RST38h | johnx: it's not the reason |
| 14:54.59 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@vie-213-129-228-010.dsl.sil.at) |
| 14:55.30 | RST38h | johnx: The reason is that it is designed by people with asperger's syndrome |
| 14:55.35 | johnx | so out of curiosity: how would one sanely have a2dp headphones provide a /dev/audio interface? |
| 14:55.51 | johnx | RST38h, might want to watch comments like that... |
| 14:56.09 | RST38h | johnx: normally - you open it, write to it, the driver manages sending what you write to the headphones, with compression |
| 14:56.32 | RST38h | johnx: Well, it was just a statement of a fact |
| 14:56.41 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@vie-213-129-228-010.dsl.sil.at) |
| 14:56.52 | johnx | RST38h, some people might take that the wrong way |
| 14:57.19 | RST38h | johnx: Let'em |
| 14:57.32 | johnx | alright: fuck you :) |
| 14:57.40 | RST38h | Hehe =) |
| 14:57.41 | ShadowJK | The best way of getting half-working alsa support into your app, is to become big enough that an alsa developer comes along and corrects your code |
| 14:57.55 | ShadowJK | Because you're unlikely to figure it out by staring at the docs |
| 14:58.15 | RST38h | johnx: But in this particular case you have obviously got someone REALLY concentrating on the API design to the point where all other things (including common sense) are ignored |
| 14:58.35 | Stskeeps | heh, know the feeling |
| 14:58.48 | johnx | RST38h, trying to justify what you just said, just makes you look more ignorant |
| 15:00.43 | johnx | RST38h, and as for a2dp: you want sound to go into the kernel interface, get passed up into userspace, have the sbc encoding run on it, then back into the kernel for transmission? |
| 15:01.19 | RST38h | johnx: I want sound processing stay in the kernel |
| 15:01.26 | Stskeeps | johnx: there's some merit to what he says though.. with aspergers, it is -very- easy to drown in the details (i have it myself so), and the end results can be horrendous if not balanced with other developers/end users :P |
| 15:01.56 | RST38h | johnx: And no, I am not "justifying" what I said, I am explaining the basis for my assumption |
| 15:02.22 | ShadowJK | you make it support only sample format A2DP :-) |
| 15:02.31 | ShadowJK | the /dev/audio device for bluetooth steroe headset |
| 15:03.10 | johnx | ShadowJK, and then every app that wants to play sound includes an sbc encoder? |
| 15:03.15 | RST38h | Also an idea - this way you write sbc encoded data into the device |
| 15:03.44 | johnx | wow...what a killer idea. I get to wait for everyone to include sbc encoding into their apps before I can use my headphones? |
| 15:03.48 | RST38h | johnx: you can run an sbc encoder process that reads data from a socket |
| 15:04.50 | RST38h | call it /dev/headset or something |
| 15:05.42 | johnx | and could I expect to ln -s /dev/headset /dev/audio and have things just work? |
| 15:05.57 | ShadowJK | alsa is great in pretending to be transparent, but unfortunately it's not :( |
| 15:06.08 | RST38h | not if you want devices for both plain audio and sbc audio |
| 15:06.27 | RST38h | ShadowJK: 2/3 of it does not appear to work at all, transparently or not |
| 15:06.55 | ShadowJK | I still have to access the hw directly in alsa and not through 'default' pcm, to get accurate usable timing info |
| 15:07.17 | johnx | pretend I'm a user: I want my headphones to work without rewriting every sound producing app I use to support my headphones |
| 15:07.46 | RST38h | johnx: if you are a user, you do not really care whether it happens through ALSA or not. |
| 15:07.48 | ShadowJK | Atleast they fixed the thing where they did fork() in libalsa and you ended up with random processes all over, which then blocked all sound when they eventually fell over |
| 15:07.53 | RST38h | So, no, this example won't fly |
| 15:08.23 | ShadowJK | From a user point of view, wrangling alsa to do anything is a pain. And if the distro sets it up for you, then it doesn't matter what sits behind it :-) |
| 15:08.26 | RST38h | ShadowJK: Don't scare me like that - random kernel hangups I have got today are really sufficient =) |
| 15:08.52 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@vie-213-129-228-010.dsl.sil.at) |
| 15:09.08 | johnx | RST38h, you really think people will be rewriting all their audio player code every time a strange and different piece of sound hardware appears |
| 15:09.25 | johnx | that strikes me as the wrong level to do that at |
| 15:09.46 | RST38h | johnx: I really think there is a way to connect your a2dp headset using standard, lightweight /dev/dsp API, without resorting to something like ALSA |
| 15:09.55 | RST38h | That is all I think |
| 15:10.09 | RST38h | As to ALSA, I haven't seen many developers using ALSA APIs directly |
| 15:10.11 | ShadowJK | Well that's effectively what you have to do today anyway, the alsa API is too complex for programmers to write "proper" code for, so whenever something new comes along in ALSA, random apps break and the alsa people say the apps' alsa code is "broken", then you have to wait for someone to fix that |
| 15:10.13 | alterego | gstreamer ftw! |
| 15:10.31 | johnx | RST38h, I'll give you that. even the pulseaudio guys seem to be steering people in that direction |
| 15:10.35 | ShadowJK | Like when fedora introduced pulseaudio, random things breaking here and there |
| 15:11.03 | johnx | s/pulseaudio/alsa/ |
| 15:11.20 | *** join/#maemo Guysoft422 (n=Guysoft@89.0.152.29.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 15:11.55 | ShadowJK | going through pulseaudio straight is tolerable, going alsa->pulseaudio and the timing and buffer reporting granularity goes up a few magnitudes... Which makes VoIP kinda funny |
| 15:12.10 | ShadowJK | remembers skype didn't work very well |
| 15:12.33 | ShadowJK | Of course, skype's alsa code was "broken", they said |
| 15:13.17 | ShadowJK | When the next great thing comes along and embeds itself in the middle of the path to the soundboard, I bet there will be yet more "broken" apps.. |
| 15:14.21 | RST38h | yep |
| 15:14.36 | RST38h | That is why all these alsas, pulseaudios, esounds, etc etc should just die |
| 15:14.48 | johnx | so we can move onto the next great thing? |
| 15:15.00 | johnx | yet another sound API embedded into the kernel? |
| 15:15.08 | RST38h | Take /dev/audio (or dev/pcm or core dev/dsp functionality), add a few critical ioctls and leave it be |
| 15:15.21 | RST38h | no, just reuse the original Ap |
| 15:15.23 | RST38h | api |
| 15:15.44 | ShadowJK | besides, OSS has a ALSA compatibility layer now, imagine that :-) |
| 15:15.49 | ShadowJK | (run ALSA apps on OSS) |
| 15:16.06 | ShadowJK | The OSS guy did it because people said it was impossible |
| 15:16.07 | ShadowJK | lol |
| 15:16.13 | johnx | so from my example: will OSS have A2DP drivers? |
| 15:16.13 | alterego | Heh |
| 15:16.21 | Stslaptop | ShadowJK: he sounds about as insane as me.. |
| 15:16.32 | alterego | If you keep using broken things then they'll never get replaced. |
| 15:16.51 | ShadowJK | there are no unbroken things |
| 15:16.56 | RST38h | yep |
| 15:17.06 | RST38h | btw, http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2009/01/nielsen2.jpg |
| 15:17.25 | RST38h | of course ythe most amusing is position #7 ;) |
| 15:17.40 | alterego | skype-installer and gizmo-installer really annoy me. |
| 15:18.10 | alterego | Why do they have to make the core meta package depend on them. I don't want them cluttering up my app menu >:( |
| 15:18.12 | johnx | that's a pretty big "other" category O_o |
| 15:18.30 | johnx | alterego, then install skype and remove it :) |
| 15:18.31 | ShadowJK | johnx, it's not surprising really |
| 15:18.46 | ShadowJK | People have tons of functioning SNES boxen left :-) |
| 15:18.48 | alterego | I just deleted the .desktop files. |
| 15:19.07 | johnx | not surprising, just ... maybe they could have expanded the list to 10 so we could see some of them |
| 15:19.20 | ShadowJK | yeah |
| 15:19.29 | qwerty12_N800 | alterego, I like to dpkg -L them and delete the files manually. Being from the uk, you won't have noticed they annoying rhapsody-installer package too... |
| 15:19.44 | alterego | :) |
| 15:19.46 | qwerty12_N800 | s/they/the |
| 15:19.59 | johnx | heh...had a friend who worked for Real for a while :) |
| 15:20.01 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=thopieka@p57A15F2F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:20.10 | Stslaptop | johnx: so what was packaged btw? |
| 15:21.19 | RST38h | remembers installing Real on a Windows PC |
| 15:21.29 | johnx | Stslaptop, that startx init script + a hook to run a first boot wizard if /etc/default/autologin isn't found |
| 15:21.48 | RST38h | The thing is almost like a virus or a trojan, judging from the amount of stuff it dumps into C:\Windows and C:\Windows\System32 |
| 15:22.19 | johnx | looks for a zenity maemo source package ... |
| 15:22.42 | johnx | extras I suppose... |
| 15:22.55 | qwerty12_N800 | there isn't one in extras(-devel) |
| 15:23.21 | RST38h | a moment |
| 15:23.46 | RST38h | I do not think they have released anything officially yet |
| 15:24.16 | RST38h | Ok, courtesy of Bundyo: http://www.bundyo.org/maemo/zenity/ |
| 15:24.30 | johnx | ah, win :D |
| 15:24.32 | johnx | thanks |
| 15:25.09 | thopiekar | could some one please help me with a little python - "data read and write" problem? |
| 15:25.09 | thopiekar | http://pastebin.com/d7328a45a |
| 15:25.09 | thopiekar | I get this output on eclipse (plus pyDev): |
| 15:25.09 | thopiekar | Traceback (most recent call last): |
| 15:25.09 | thopiekar | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:25.10 | thopiekar | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:25.12 | thopiekar | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:25.14 | thopiekar | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:25.16 | thopiekar | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:25.18 | thopiekar | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:25.20 | thopiekar | IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor |
| 15:25.26 | qwerty12_N800 | PASTEBIN |
| 15:25.48 | johnx | qwerty12_N800, it looks like pastebin...but I think this is actually IRC |
| 15:25.56 | Stslaptop | johnx: sure it needs to be maemoized? |
| 15:26.01 | andre___ | hmm. got problems building fremantle alpha (Runtime Environment only) in scratchbox: http://www.pastebin.cz/13777 - anybody having an idea how to get better debug output? |
| 15:26.05 | qwerty12_N800 | johnx, call it a hint :) |
| 15:26.16 | johnx | Stslaptop, it wants to pull in libgnomecanvas and can't |
| 15:26.28 | thopiekar | sry.. you are right i had to pastbin the out put too ;) |
| 15:26.38 | Stslaptop | johnx: ah. |
| 15:26.51 | johnx | I assume we'll be using it for other stuff |
| 15:27.02 | Stslaptop | it wont get gnomecanvas why? |
| 15:27.14 | johnx | let me pull on the dependency tree. one sec |
| 15:28.06 | johnx | zenity -> libgnomecanvas2-0 -> libgail18 -> libgtk2.0-0 = 2.14.5-1ubuntu2 |
| 15:28.34 | Stslaptop | lovely |
| 15:28.37 | Stslaptop | there's a gail in maemo |
| 15:28.38 | johnx | no idea why it *need* that exact libgtk |
| 15:28.56 | johnx | does *it* have critical maemo-only stuff? |
| 15:29.33 | Stslaptop | not sure |
| 15:29.42 | johnx | looks |
| 15:30.32 | Stslaptop | https://stage.maemo.org/viewcvs.cgi/projects/haf/trunk/gail/debian/changelog?revision=15365&root=maemo&view=markup |
| 15:30.42 | johnx | 1.5 years of Nokia patches |
| 15:30.44 | johnx | kries |
| 15:30.56 | alterego | Woo, SDK+ RC2! :) |
| 15:31.04 | alterego | I might try and install that later. |
| 15:32.20 | Stslaptop | johnx: always possible to rebuild libgail towards libgtk |
| 15:33.04 | johnx | also, nokia is on gail 1.18 and ubuntu on 2.14 |
| 15:33.40 | johnx | so I'll rebuild Ubuntu's gail and see if I'm very lucky |
| 15:34.33 | Stslaptop | *nod* |
| 15:34.51 | Stslaptop | we need to do something about libgconf2-6 too |
| 15:34.58 | johnx | it is an interesting thing though: Nokia's gail drops support for gnome canvas, Ubuntu's doesn't. if I pull it into the first-boot-wizard I'll probably get a ton of gnome stuff |
| 15:35.25 | Stslaptop | yeah but you said zenity -> libgnomecanvas -> libgail |
| 15:35.39 | johnx | well, ubuntu's zenity. |
| 15:35.52 | johnx | I imagine Maemo's zenity doesn't need gnomecanvas |
| 15:35.58 | Stskeeps | true |
| 15:36.38 | johnx | ah, though the latest ubuntu libgail doesn't pull in gnomecanvas |
| 15:36.54 | johnx | ok, maybe not too bad. I'll see |
| 15:37.18 | Stslaptop | sometimes you don't blame nokia for wanting a seperate distro.. |
| 15:37.18 | *** join/#maemo b-man (n=b-man@cpe-98-31-62-244.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 15:37.35 | johnx | yeah |
| 15:37.35 | Stslaptop | where they can cut dependancies left and right |
| 15:37.47 | b-man | hello, jhonx |
| 15:37.55 | Stslaptop | b-man: status? |
| 15:37.57 | johnx | hey b-man. any luck with X? |
| 15:38.55 | johnx | though SDHC cards are cheap, and as long as the added deps don't take up too much more RAM I'm inclined to be closer to the desktop at the cost of disk space |
| 15:39.06 | Stslaptop | mm |
| 15:39.28 | johnx | and having said that no one will ever hire me for embedded work ever again :> |
| 15:39.38 | *** join/#maemo gnuton (n=gnuton@kde/developer/aloisio) |
| 15:39.44 | b-man | no luck with x yet. stslaptop; i'm just about done with the 'slimed down' installer, i just need to make a deb. |
| 15:39.51 | Stslaptop | alright |
| 15:40.37 | johnx | would it make sense to upload a quick auto-startx that depends on the existence of /etc/default/autologin ? |
| 15:40.38 | Stslaptop | b-man: any X problems can probably be directly attributed to not using fb_update_mode auto |
| 15:40.59 | Stslaptop | depends on what /etc/default/autologin means? |
| 15:41.16 | b-man | oh, ok thanks! |
| 15:41.19 | johnx | cat /etc/default/autologin: PREFERED_USER = johnx |
| 15:41.26 | b-man | heh |
| 15:41.32 | Stslaptop | johnx: fair enough, if it's a first-run thing |
| 15:42.04 | johnx | I mean, that's the stand-in for "first-run" so other people aren't waiting on a first-run wizard |
| 15:42.24 | johnx | we can keep doing what we're doing but move startx into init instead of rc.local |
| 15:42.40 | Stskeeps | johnx: yeah, sounds good |
| 15:42.46 | Stskeeps | (your suggestion at first) |
| 15:43.07 | johnx | yeah, developed delusions of grandeur after that o_o; |
| 15:44.05 | Stskeeps | mm |
| 15:44.12 | Stskeeps | is trying to simulate cow collars. yay :P |
| 15:44.21 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gateway.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 15:44.39 | johnx | I misread that at first |
| 15:45.50 | b-man | it looks like i'm missing /etc/dfault/autologin. |
| 15:46.29 | johnx | then you need the package I'm about to release :) |
| 15:47.11 | b-man | oh, you could have told me that :) |
| 15:47.25 | johnx | I did :P |
| 15:48.24 | *** join/#maemo roue (n=roue@afterthought.ACS.Carleton.edu) |
| 15:48.41 | thopiekar | could someone please tell me how to fix that? |
| 15:48.42 | thopiekar | the code (http://pastebin.com/d7328a45a) and it's output (http://pastebin.com/d1bcb61a6).. |
| 15:48.50 | b-man | stupid me, this is why i like to have a little coffie before i join irc in the morning. ;p |
| 15:49.01 | johnx | no worries :) |
| 15:49.56 | johnx | should that be created by the installer or should I just assume it will be 'user' for now? |
| 15:50.28 | Stskeeps | well we dont really have an installer |
| 15:50.41 | johnx | s/installer/thing that makes the images |
| 15:50.45 | Stskeeps | it's an imager, it debootstraps and unpacks files, and adds in very few things (xorg, fstab) |
| 15:50.49 | Stskeeps | +conf |
| 15:51.21 | johnx | sigh...if it doesn't exist I'll just set PREFERED_USER=user |
| 15:51.26 | alterego | catches up on the Christmas lectures. |
| 15:51.27 | Stskeeps | i think you should run the first-run thing if /etc/default/autologin doesn't exist, after wizard is done, it writes to /etc/default/autologin |
| 15:51.30 | Stskeeps | or something |
| 15:52.03 | johnx | right, which will happen when I wrangle zenity and write first-run-wizard...but for right now |
| 15:52.09 | Stskeeps | a |
| 15:52.10 | Stskeeps | h |
| 15:52.18 | *** join/#maemo setanta (n=setanta@200.184.118.130) |
| 15:52.27 | Stskeeps | user, i guess :P if its useradd'd |
| 15:52.51 | johnx | heh. I'll just add it to the top of the script for now. god forgive me |
| 15:54.42 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 15:55.27 | Stslaptop | wb qwerty12 |
| 15:55.39 | qwerty12 | thanks Stslaptop |
| 16:01.18 | b-man | Stslaptop; how can i make fb_update_mode_auto run automaticly at startup?, from something other than an init script? |
| 16:01.35 | johnx | rc.local |
| 16:02.00 | b-man | k |
| 16:02.27 | Stslaptop | b-man: fb_update_mode auto, not _auto :P |
| 16:02.58 | RST38h | http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/2009/01/custom_1230906681244_asus-android-screen.png |
| 16:03.11 | RST38h | kinda pointless but still... |
| 16:04.27 | Stslaptop | dalvik under something else or? |
| 16:04.31 | johnx | predicts a wave of Chinese PMP/PDA's running Android |
| 16:05.05 | RST38h | johnx: already happening as we speak |
| 16:05.08 | johnx | Stslaptop, just android on x86 |
| 16:05.24 | RST38h | in fact, if it dethrones WinMobile, I will be happy |
| 16:05.40 | *** join/#maemo madhav (n=Administ@122.172.57.164) |
| 16:05.43 | Stslaptop | RST38h: i'm with you on that one |
| 16:05.52 | johnx | won't be able to write emulators for it though :) |
| 16:06.38 | RST38h | who cares |
| 16:06.48 | RST38h | as long as WinMobile dies... |
| 16:06.58 | johnx | :D since you know, you *sell* emulators... |
| 16:07.23 | RST38h | It is one segment I am willing to sacrifice, especially considering that I still can't make myself port latest versions to WinMobile |
| 16:08.23 | johnx | well, then. good riddance indeed |
| 16:08.56 | johnx | and google will get a ton of young Chinese programmers working on android as their first platform |
| 16:10.17 | johnx | so any bets on when android starts showing up on cheap/free w/ contract phones in the US/EU? :) |
| 16:10.34 | RST38h | Once Motorola releases its first handsets |
| 16:10.45 | RST38h | Unless Motorola does not live to that date financially |
| 16:10.58 | johnx | was about to post "ahaha. as long as they're around do that" |
| 16:11.17 | qwerty12 | When will a real phone company do that rather |
| 16:11.19 | qwerty12 | ? |
| 16:11.26 | RST38h | Well, it is not like they have got other chances beside Android |
| 16:11.40 | RST38h | qwerty: #define real phone company |
| 16:12.06 | qwerty12 | RST38h, Nokia, Sony Ericsson etc. I'm not a fan of Motorola phones. |
| 16:12.16 | Stslaptop | qwerty12: there was an android comment from SE |
| 16:12.31 | alterego | The G1 is ugly .. |
| 16:12.34 | qwerty12 | Stslaptop, cool :) |
| 16:12.35 | johnx | Nokia, never. SE, maybe |
| 16:12.36 | qwerty12 | googles :) |
| 16:13.08 | qwerty12 | SE should just let UIQ burn though |
| 16:13.24 | Stslaptop | i wouldn't mind my SE phone if it didn't continually die when in my pocket |
| 16:14.19 | RST38h | qwerty: Well, Motorola is pretty real phone company (or has been) |
| 16:14.26 | alterego | I'd like to know when Nokia are opening up Symbian, I've been waiting ages :) |
| 16:14.40 | RST38h | HTC produces phones but it is hardly a real phone company |
| 16:14.43 | Stslaptop | but i knew that i had spent too much time with my tablet when i tried to use touch functionality on my SE phone.. |
| 16:14.47 | RST38h | alterego: They have opened it already |
| 16:14.53 | alterego | Really? |
| 16:14.56 | glass | qwerty12: uiq is just burned already |
| 16:14.56 | alterego | When? |
| 16:15.06 | RST38h | alterego: Annual membership fee to get open Symbian is $1500. |
| 16:15.09 | qwerty12 | RST38h, yeah, my words are more opinionated (I think motorola suck dick and their phones too) |
| 16:15.10 | RST38h | :) |
| 16:15.12 | alterego | O_O |
| 16:15.17 | glass | qwerty12: afaik they're keeping a small symbian lab though(se) |
| 16:15.18 | qwerty12 | glass, whee! |
| 16:15.19 | alterego | Damnit, I thought it was free. |
| 16:15.24 | RST38h | That is Symbian's idea of "open" |
| 16:15.32 | johnx | imagines SE sucking their phones |
| 16:15.34 | alterego | Nokias .. |
| 16:15.37 | glass | well symbians idea of open is that manufacturers can take it |
| 16:15.39 | RST38h | glass: What for? I thought they dumped and forgot? |
| 16:15.51 | glass | RST38h: for future phones for the unified symbian platform |
| 16:16.10 | RST38h | johnx: Japanese or Nordic part of SE? =) |
| 16:16.10 | glass | not really trade secrets if you read trade mags/sites/rumours |
| 16:16.30 | RST38h | glass: But they do not have any plans for these? |
| 16:16.38 | orifice_work1 | since getting an n810 all my lcd screens have seen an increase in finger prints and poke marks |
| 16:16.43 | glass | RST38h: real plans? dunno if they know themselfs even |
| 16:16.50 | johnx | RST38h, maybe at a high-profile international meeting? |
| 16:17.11 | johnx | orifice_work1, yeah, I poked my desktop monitor the other day |
| 16:17.14 | glass | samsungs s60's have been getting more available globally no though |
| 16:17.14 | RST38h | johnx: Actually, sucking an SE phone from both ends ...mmm... |
| 16:17.20 | glass | no=now |
| 16:17.37 | orifice_work1 | what would a convenient key be to map to TAB on the n810 keyboard ? I'm thinking right shift. I never remember that it's actually there anyways. |
| 16:17.42 | RST38h | glass: Samsung will run anything on their phones, if they see profit |
| 16:17.51 | glass | RST38h: thats samsungs problem actually |
| 16:17.57 | glass | RST38h: and motors.. spoon in every soup |
| 16:17.58 | RST38h | glass: They are very cynical like all asian guys |
| 16:18.08 | johnx | a low-end, durable as hell samsung android phone would be kind of nice |
| 16:18.12 | glass | not motrs, motos |
| 16:18.15 | RST38h | glass: SE - I do not think so |
| 16:18.25 | glass | RST38h: se's been in trouble for years |
| 16:18.29 | RST38h | johnx: ah just wait and you will get your wish |
| 16:18.35 | glass | RST38h: they lagged so much with uiq3 |
| 16:18.39 | RST38h | glass: Well, that is of their own making |
| 16:18.42 | lcuk | orifice-work, http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/2007/12/31/adding-pipe-and-tab-to-the-n810-keyboard/ |
| 16:18.54 | glass | RST38h: and xperia seems just a branded oem wm phone |
| 16:18.58 | *** join/#maemo rjelari (n=rjelari@esprx01x.nokia.com) |
| 16:18.58 | RST38h | glass: They did not fix bugs, did not market, and generally did not care |
| 16:18.59 | glass | RST38h: yeah, it's their fault |
| 16:19.00 | johnx | really, people can say that samsung phones aren't cool, but they *work* as *phones* |
| 16:19.01 | orifice-work | lcuk: cool thanks |
| 16:19.10 | lcuk | read the comments as well |
| 16:19.11 | glass | RST38h: i'm not defending them :) just stating the facts |
| 16:19.11 | RST38h | johnx: correct |
| 16:19.21 | orifice-work | samsung's hardware design has come a long way in the last 3 years |
| 16:19.37 | RST38h | glass: Well, it is kinda known fact. And it is way more obvious if you look at Sony's media players |
| 16:19.48 | RST38h | glass: I won't even mention the PS3 :) |
| 16:20.00 | glass | RST38h: se has seemed pretty seperated from just s |
| 16:20.02 | johnx | been using samsung phones from 2001ish to 2006ish. left very little to be desired hardware-wise for a dumbphone |
| 16:20.15 | RST38h | glass: But the problem exists across all Sony subdivisions |
| 16:20.49 | glass | samsung seems to have many teams doing sw for their phones |
| 16:20.54 | johnx | sony needs to talk to itself |
| 16:20.56 | glass | adds up costs |
| 16:21.08 | RST38h | glass: Same with Motorola, until recently |
| 16:21.15 | glass | RST38h: yeah |
| 16:21.23 | orifice-work | glass: I thought that too. It seems every new device has a new sw UI team |
| 16:21.27 | glass | RST38h: when looking at profit numbers, it seems like a shitty tactic |
| 16:21.31 | RST38h | johnx: just fire all the old fat guys in suits |
| 16:21.40 | RST38h | johnx: starting with legal department. |
| 16:21.51 | glass | orifice-work: and they used to just bolt on a java vm that they didn't customize at all, had different t9 and all weird shit(samsung) |
| 16:21.59 | RST38h | glass: I am sure if it were shitty tactic, Samsung would not do it |
| 16:22.05 | *** join/#maemo b-man (n=b-man@pool-71-124-106-242.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 16:22.14 | johnx | RST38h, I think it's partially endemic to their massive size, current structure and also to a certain extent on Japanese business culture |
| 16:22.20 | glass | RST38h: i've been hearing that reasoning for a lot of shitty things lately :D |
| 16:22.27 | RST38h | glass: The real reason may be that hiring a lot of Chinese/Koreans is cheap and gives you government subsidies |
| 16:22.39 | glass | RST38h: but it's bad profit on bottom line |
| 16:22.48 | glass | RST38h: on q revenues and profit % |
| 16:23.08 | RST38h | glass: is there a document to showcase that? |
| 16:23.10 | glass | RST38h: nokia has(at least untill recenty) the best profit % per phone |
| 16:23.22 | RST38h | because their per phone prices are inflated. |
| 16:23.24 | glass | RST38h: just read the next quarterly briefs etc |
| 16:23.34 | RST38h | johnx: true |
| 16:23.42 | glass | so what, they make profit, making profi means they survive |
| 16:24.24 | RST38h | goes to check out the next movie on tv |
| 16:25.06 | RST38h | Mr Bean's vacation. Mhm. |
| 16:25.16 | glass | disaster movie |
| 16:25.32 | Stslaptop | oh boy. bollywood is going to remake 'back to the future' |
| 16:25.35 | Stslaptop | this'll be interesting. |
| 16:25.48 | glass | Stslaptop: haha whaaaat |
| 16:25.54 | RST38h | Sts: Funny, I have just glimpsed Bollywood remake of Superman on TV |
| 16:26.10 | RST38h | Sts: And yes, it was as bad as it sounds |
| 16:26.19 | Stslaptop | glass: http://www.worstpreviews.com/headline.php?id=11462&count=0 |
| 16:26.26 | johnx | bollywood BTTF? O_o Can't decide whether to be excited or filled with dread |
| 16:26.47 | Stslaptop | johnx: what bttf really needs is a lot of singing and dancing, obviously. |
| 16:27.04 | johnx | that's what I've always said! |
| 16:27.36 | RST38h | Speaking of Bollywood: http://funbest.ru/funfoto/1241-indijjskie-kinoafishi-ukhkhkh-zhgut-34.html |
| 16:27.45 | RST38h | (try not to eat while opening this link) |
| 16:27.49 | johnx | right when McFly is peeping in that window, that's when we need an epic musical number! or maybe during the skateboard chase seen |
| 16:28.11 | Stslaptop | hehe |
| 16:28.18 | Stslaptop | RST38h: hindi 3-d is hillarious |
| 16:28.37 | *** join/#maemo z72ka_ntb (n=hermanj@ho247.net.msc.cz) |
| 16:28.49 | lcuk | johnx, back to the future was already a musical |
| 16:28.54 | lcuk | "power of love" :D |
| 16:28.54 | RST38h | Sts: I like Jaani Dushman better, the one with the blue-skinned guy |
| 16:28.57 | sp3000 | benny lava! |
| 16:29.11 | Stslaptop | donnie darko done by bollywood could be interesting |
| 16:29.19 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@201-27-57-217.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 16:29.25 | Stslaptop | couldn't possibly get less bizarre ;) |
| 16:29.32 | RST38h | Sts: Why not go for StarWars? |
| 16:29.51 | johnx | ok, now that would actually be kind of neat |
| 16:29.54 | *** join/#maemo booiiing (n=[booiiin@e180049228.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:31.27 | *** join/#maemo ShadowJK (i=jk@terminus.enivax.net) |
| 16:31.54 | Stslaptop | is personally waiting for 'the time travellers wife' to come out. brilliant book. |
| 16:32.12 | lcuk | RST38h, george lucas stops it |
| 16:32.58 | johnx | yeah, he's the only one who's allowed to mame star wars |
| 16:33.16 | Stskeeps | except for those chinese subtitle translators.. |
| 16:33.21 | RST38h | lcuk: The idea is to make Lucas kill himself when he sees the trailer |
| 16:33.31 | RST38h | lcuk: Or have a fit. |
| 16:33.59 | johnx | RST38h, if he didn't kill himself after seeing his own new version of a new hope I don't think bollywood-ization will be enough |
| 16:34.05 | lcuk | kinda like how a little bit of my childhood died when i saw this http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fb50GMmY5nk |
| 16:34.07 | Stskeeps | johnx: off topic, so what will you have the first run wizard ask? username? real name? |
| 16:34.20 | *** join/#maemo Andy80 (n=andy80@host147-12-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 16:34.20 | lcuk | (though its kinda cool) |
| 16:34.22 | johnx | Stskeeps, yeah, maybe tablet name? |
| 16:34.27 | Stskeeps | true, that too |
| 16:34.28 | johnx | ideas welcome :) |
| 16:35.05 | b-man | what desktop env you are using? ;) |
| 16:35.10 | *** join/#maemo chandoo (n=chandoo@ool-4353bb46.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 16:35.19 | johnx | b-man, on my desktop? or on my tablet? |
| 16:35.27 | Stslaptop | b-man: think that'll be hildon at first with option to change environments if you're not in-flash |
| 16:35.34 | Stslaptop | (as in, cloned mode) |
| 16:35.39 | Stslaptop | or installed to SD |
| 16:35.43 | lcuk | are we having real users? |
| 16:35.56 | johnx | lcuk, had those once. they make a pill now. |
| 16:35.59 | Stslaptop | if anything, we have Meiz ;) |
| 16:35.59 | b-man | johnx; that was a suggestion not a question. ;) |
| 16:36.31 | *** join/#maemo Grackle (n=Alex@227-230.suscom-maine.net) |
| 16:36.35 | johnx | b-man, ah, we'll probably leave alternative desktops up to users to setup...though I will keep it in mind for later |
| 16:37.29 | Stslaptop | johnx: option when we have an in-flash version.. asking if you'd like to clone to SD or something |
| 16:37.43 | johnx | in first-boot-wizard? |
| 16:37.53 | johnx | or as a nice little separate app? |
| 16:37.56 | Stslaptop | true, it might be a bit early |
| 16:38.00 | Stslaptop | yeah, seperate app makes more sense |
| 16:38.04 | lcuk | Stskeeps, with any of these questions, think about your gran opening the box |
| 16:38.15 | Stslaptop | yeah yeah :P |
| 16:38.19 | lcuk | (or other relative as reqd) |
| 16:38.57 | *** join/#maemo Tiger_056 (n=48b7c72e@chathostplus.com) |
| 16:38.57 | Stslaptop | lcuk: will probably be something along the lines (in a later version) that real name gets turned into username .. and tablet device name |
| 16:39.03 | lcuk | i simply ask for a name, it will help personalize things for them |
| 16:39.12 | johnx | ah: location! |
| 16:39.16 | Stslaptop | yeah, that too |
| 16:39.22 | *** join/#maemo milhouse (n=irc_milh@dsl-217-155-26-150.zen.co.uk) |
| 16:39.25 | johnx | takes notes |
| 16:40.04 | *** join/#maemo denny (i=denny@freenode/staff/denny) |
| 16:40.41 | johnx | should be easy to turn real name into user name. toLower($firstname) |
| 16:40.45 | Tiger_056 | join #/kde |
| 16:41.04 | lcuk | johnx, do not underestimate your users |
| 16:41.17 | lcuk | they do strange crap like put fullstops and quotes and crap |
| 16:41.44 | johnx | ah, little bobby;DROP TABLES |
| 16:41.47 | lcuk | and different generations put things differently |
| 16:42.26 | johnx | heh...if (badname) ; then username = user; fi |
| 16:43.11 | lcuk | just have two fields, short name and fullname, as they type their shortname it should fill up proper name (unless its been filled in already) |
| 16:43.27 | RST38h | Sts: First time wizard should obviously ask "Are you an idiot?" |
| 16:43.33 | qwerty12 | johnx, badname = motherfucker? :) |
| 16:43.35 | johnx | lcuk, if I can't do it with zenity I'm not doing it :P |
| 16:43.41 | lcuk | with a default option of Yes and no way to change it? |
| 16:43.43 | RST38h | Sts: And choose the appropriate path depending on the answer |
| 16:43.50 | johnx | qwerty12, badname = bobby;rm -rf / |
| 16:44.07 | qwerty12 | hehe |
| 16:44.27 | lcuk | johnx, i put a single name box into liqbase expecting a quick nickname, i learnt a lot from that experience ;) |
| 16:45.02 | *** join/#maemo soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap) |
| 16:45.07 | qwerty12 | can't believe how shit slow the builder is at building sstrip >.< |
| 16:45.38 | johnx | lcuk, this can be ripped out later. if people complain. but I don't want to engage in painting the planks I'm going to use to build the barn at this point :P |
| 16:46.02 | lcuk | name: "../dev/null" |
| 16:46.30 | lcuk | heh, sounds exactly like me :P |
| 16:47.25 | *** join/#maemo gentooer (n=asdfsf@pool-72-90-138-252.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 16:47.26 | johnx | actually the killer would be, Name: Tablet User,,,":/root:/bin/su |
| 16:53.57 | *** join/#maemo Knowledge (n=Knowledg@c-76-29-11-1.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 16:54.30 | johnx | committed! |
| 16:56.03 | lcuk | johnx, they finally arrived to take you away? |
| 16:56.15 | johnx | they should. wonder what's taking so long |
| 17:00.51 | b-man | i think i've partly solved the xorg problem, i didn't include "X &" and "export DISPLAY=:0" in rc.local. |
| 17:00.56 | RST38h | abundance of other patients, no doubt =) |
| 17:01.37 | *** join/#maemo briglia (n=X@189.2.128.130) |
| 17:02.04 | johnx | b-man, if you're still using gdm it starts X for you |
| 17:03.04 | b-man | ok |
| 17:03.25 | johnx | b-man, you removed gdm-conf? |
| 17:03.59 | b-man | no, i haven't yet... |
| 17:04.09 | johnx | well. that's your problem |
| 17:04.15 | johnx | I can say without much doubt |
| 17:05.01 | johnx | or at very least one the problems |
| 17:05.10 | b-man | but i need a way for my touch screen to work in gnome, that's partly why. |
| 17:05.40 | johnx | you need xserver-xorg-input-tslib |
| 17:07.47 | RST38h | ...Volvo's upcoming crash-proof car. The company will introduce a concept car based on the S60 this month... |
| 17:07.59 | RST38h | See? S60 is so crash-proof that even Volvo uses it |
| 17:08.08 | b-man | ok, then i'll just remove that useless xserver parameter line in gdm then. - i still would like to use gdm :p |
| 17:09.25 | johnx | b-man, so use it. :) |
| 17:09.54 | *** join/#maemo RST38bis (n=fms@NAT-81-25-53-121.ultranet.ru) |
| 17:11.27 | alterego | Finally, I think I'm ready for RC2 :) |
| 17:11.45 | johnx | but is RC2 ready for you? |
| 17:11.52 | alterego | No, probably not :P |
| 17:12.07 | johnx | that's the spirit! |
| 17:12.12 | alterego | I still need to complete my hildon-desktop plugin system. It works but it's buggy as f*ck. |
| 17:12.48 | b-man | *b-man hopes to god that ubuntu boots up properly, doesn't think ubuntu can take eny more battery poping :p* |
| 17:13.14 | johnx | b-man, you need a usb/bt keyboard or a linux box :P |
| 17:13.16 | *** join/#maemo limepi (n=hex@76-76-226-118.lisco.net) |
| 17:13.31 | limepi | I cannot for the life of me get a FLAC file to play on my n800 :( |
| 17:18.10 | johnx | did you follow a guide? are you getting an error message? what music player are you using? |
| 17:19.29 | *** join/#maemo Mousey (n=welcomem@dsl231-036-060.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 17:20.39 | lcuk | b-man, you do know that to do irc actions you type "/me jumps up and down" instead of "*luck jumps up and down" |
| 17:21.01 | Mousey | *Mousey jumps up and dnow |
| 17:21.10 | lcuk | *lcuk makes more typos |
| 17:21.24 | Mousey | *Mousey fails at internets |
| 17:21.25 | johnx | fails at spelling |
| 17:21.31 | johnx | 3rd grade all over again |
| 17:21.39 | lcuk | blame your keyboard |
| 17:21.46 | Mousey | if i had had internets in 3rd grade, i'd have a real job by now |
| 17:21.49 | johnx | It's a good keyboard actually |
| 17:21.51 | limepi | johnx: I've read that mplayer can just straight up play a FLAC file |
| 17:22.17 | johnx | limepi, that sounds right I think |
| 17:22.23 | Mousey | limepi: if you have the right libs, mplayer will play anything |
| 17:22.26 | lcuk | limepi, it possibly can then, are you sure its a valid FLAC file though |
| 17:22.41 | limepi | yes, it plays on my desktop just fine |
| 17:23.27 | lcuk | with mplayer? |
| 17:23.44 | limepi | I haven't tried that |
| 17:23.52 | limepi | it works with mp3 playing software |
| 17:24.53 | lcuk | then try renaminig it to mp3 on the tablet and seeing if it works ;) |
| 17:25.29 | limepi | grr, won't play with VLC |
| 17:26.11 | limepi | yes, it does play with mplayer on my mac, here |
| 17:26.44 | lcuk | try running it from mplayer on tablet with command line then and see if you can determine why its failing |
| 17:27.03 | limepi | I might as well just transcode the damn thing |
| 17:27.07 | lcuk | heh |
| 17:27.19 | limepi | damned if I can tell the difference, anyway |
| 17:35.26 | johnx | Stskeeps, hey, I think this will actually work |
| 17:37.12 | johnx | need to learn how to use update-alternatives tomorrow so I can hook hildon-desktop-env up to x-session-manager |
| 17:37.36 | alterego | Right time for the testing face .. |
| 17:37.40 | alterego | ~phase .. O_O |
| 17:37.57 | johnx | ah, go rest your face :D |
| 17:38.02 | johnx | 'night alterego |
| 17:38.14 | alterego | g'night :) |
| 17:38.26 | johnx | ah, I misread testing as resting |
| 17:38.38 | johnx | means we could probably both use sleep, huh? |
| 17:39.29 | *** join/#maemo b-man (n=b-man@pool-71-124-106-242.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 17:40.53 | b-man | HUGE_SUCSESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ubuntu boots perfectly now and all the applications work allmost perfectly, even ubuntu-desktop is pritty responsive!!! WOHOOOOO!!!!! |
| 17:41.10 | johnx | good deal b-man |
| 17:42.02 | alterego | Heh |
| 17:42.06 | b-man | allthough i'll have to install xkbd, since matchbox-keyboard causes the desktop to restart. |
| 17:42.08 | alterego | I'm gonna be reinstalling tomorrow .. |
| 17:42.25 | alterego | Now I've virtualized everything I want a basic desktop install to run all my VM's :) |
| 17:42.54 | johnx | think b-man's talking about ubuntu on the tablet though :) |
| 17:43.07 | b-man | oh yah!!! :D |
| 17:43.16 | alterego | Insane |
| 17:43.19 | b-man | wihooo!!! |
| 17:43.20 | RST38bis | proofpic?;] |
| 17:43.32 | b-man | it works great too!! |
| 17:44.28 | b-man | allthough i'm using 356 mb of swap ;) |
| 17:44.37 | johnx | aaah, well that would help |
| 17:44.46 | alterego | Heh |
| 17:44.53 | alterego | flash images? :) |
| 17:44.57 | b-man | i even have right-click! |
| 17:45.40 | b-man | alterego; i'll probibly make a guide when i have the time. |
| 17:47.14 | *** join/#maemo mlpug (n=mlpug@a88-115-168-225.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:47.30 | alterego | :( |
| 17:47.37 | alterego | Can we see a screeny then :) |
| 17:47.49 | *** join/#maemo chandoo (n=chandoo@ool-4353bb46.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 17:48.05 | johnx | Stslaptop, pushed auto-startx to my lp bzr. if you want to submit it to the builder, go ahead but it's not much use without a tweak to hildon-desktop-env which will be tomorrow |
| 17:48.11 | johnx | 'night for real now |
| 17:48.26 | b-man | shure, i'll post a ton of screenshots over at ITT |
| 17:49.02 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@201-43-14-72.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 17:49.19 | b-man | btw, don't worry, i'll make a guide for ubuntu sometime today or tomorrow. |
| 17:49.31 | alterego | :) |
| 17:49.34 | alterego | Awesome. |
| 17:49.43 | alterego | How does it cope with the resolution? |
| 17:50.10 | b-man | really good :) |
| 17:50.16 | *** join/#maemo chandoo- (n=chandoo@ool-4353bb46.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 17:50.29 | b-man | easy to read, easy to use. :D |
| 17:51.19 | alterego | Cool |
| 17:53.50 | Stskeeps | johnx: k, i |
| 17:53.51 | Stskeeps | 'll wait |
| 17:54.22 | johnx | it does nicely launch a failsafe x-terminal. only helps the n810 users though |
| 17:55.23 | Stskeeps | *nod* |
| 17:55.32 | lcuk | johnx, :P your turn not to sleep |
| 17:55.39 | b-man | hard to believe it only took me 3 days to start from an idia and progresivly evolve into a true full, bootable ubuntu install :D |
| 17:55.41 | lcuk | cya in a bit ;) |
| 17:55.58 | Stskeeps | b-man: do me a favour and note that battery life will (cos it's a desktop distribution) be limited when you do announce |
| 17:56.37 | b-man | i'll take note of that, thanks |
| 17:56.52 | Stskeeps | there's not much to do besides dsme-tools & wifi power saving (feel free to use the deblet scripts), so |
| 17:57.16 | b-man | k :) |
| 17:58.01 | Stskeeps | and remember to use deblet bootmenu as dependancy or i'll have to slap you :P |
| 17:58.08 | alterego | These Christmas lectures are actually pretty good :) |
| 17:58.18 | b-man | hehe |
| 17:58.20 | alterego | Though Bill Gates appearing in the last one was a bit of a downer. |
| 17:59.17 | b-man | do you think that those dsme/powersave scrips might require modifications? |
| 17:59.24 | Stskeeps | nah, not really |
| 17:59.56 | b-man | do you think it's safe just to dpkg -i them? |
| 18:00.10 | Stskeeps | yeah, should work fine |
| 18:01.26 | b-man | ok *b-man goes off and starts downloading packages from deblet repo :)* |
| 18:02.12 | *** join/#maemo Interocitor (n=Jacob@ip98-165-84-98.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 18:08.28 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (n=befr0d@190.68.13.178) |
| 18:09.51 | alterego | Well, libhildon1-ruby1.8 has been properly tested now :) |
| 18:09.59 | alterego | moves onto libosso-ruby1.8 |
| 18:11.13 | mikkov_ | Can anybody add comment to https://maemo.org/downloads/product/create/OS2008/application/ that it is recommended to use only extras in .install files and that extras-devel is absolutely not recommended? |
| 18:12.01 | alterego | Sure, extras-devel is used for when you're testing your application package. |
| 18:12.31 | alterego | Once your application and the packaging is working and building correctly with the auto-builder, you promote it to extras. Users shouldn't install software from extras-devel because it's presumably extremely unstable. |
| 18:13.14 | alterego | And more than likely it'll break something .. |
| 18:13.49 | mikkov_ | and using extras-devel in .install files enables extras-devel unwillingly for unknowing users |
| 18:15.03 | alterego | Yes |
| 18:15.24 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:17.13 | Stslaptop | still believes there should be extras-devel (or testing); and then encouraging garage PPAs for developers to release often |
| 18:17.31 | alterego | Well, I think I'm pretty happy with the new set of ruby-maemo packages. |
| 18:18.24 | *** join/#maemo GAN800 (n=ryan@32.134.96.150) |
| 18:21.30 | alterego | Dependencies seem to check out. |
| 18:21.49 | alterego | Seems to work in my own auto-builder setup, so I guess it'll be good in extras :) |
| 18:21.53 | Stslaptop | evening GAN800 |
| 18:22.10 | GAN800 | Howdy, Stslaptop. :) |
| 18:23.31 | alterego | contemplates dinner. |
| 18:25.05 | GAN800 | is eating Checkers |
| 18:25.50 | GAN800 | andre___, woooo, bugspam! ;) |
| 18:26.31 | andre___ | you wanted it, you get it! :) |
| 18:26.48 | andre___ | now doing the same for gnome bugzilla.... |
| 18:28.37 | GAN800 | Now, who wants to calculate what percentage of tz's 34 reports atually serve to do anything other than triple the bugsquad's workload? :p |
| 18:28.58 | andre___ | heh. some are quite useful, don't say that. :) |
| 18:29.26 | andre___ | gnome bugzilla has cute scripts to gather much more info. hope they get upstreamed later this year |
| 18:29.38 | andre___ | http://bugzilla.gnome.org/utils/stats-2008/stat-overview.html |
| 18:32.57 | sp3000 | heh, dup count 1639 |
| 18:33.13 | lcuk | andre___, that "Ryan Abel" guy is a bit of a bug spotting super foe, i hope all the bugs he notices are real ;) perhaps he should be banned :P |
| 18:33.13 | alterego | GAN800, is it too early for me to use the new extras categories? I've just used 'user/development' and it doesn't appear to get localised. |
| 18:33.15 | sp3000 | I guess that's what you get when bugzilla is a crash reporter database :P |
| 18:34.05 | GAN800 | lcuk, I know! Fuck that guy! Really. :P |
| 18:34.08 | andre___ | lcuk, yeah, suspicious guy |
| 18:34.21 | GAN800 | alterego, they wont be localized |
| 18:34.25 | sp3000 | goes load gnome # 522534, just because |
| 18:35.13 | andre___ | 522534 is ugly. can't even block it because the trace is too short |
| 18:35.16 | alterego | GAN800, because they're not being used right now? |
| 18:35.18 | GAN800 | alterego, so you can push them now and suffer for a while unlocalized, or you can wait. |
| 18:35.29 | alterego | I'll push them now : |
| 18:35.30 | GAN800 | Application Manager still need |
| 18:35.32 | alterego | :) |
| 18:35.51 | GAN800 | s to be updated (stupid fkb) |
| 18:37.39 | GAN800 | andre___, we need to source some shirts. |
| 18:37.44 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@a88-114-221-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:38.17 | andre___ | "I filed 100 Maemo bugs in 2008 and all I got was this lousy t-shirt"? |
| 18:38.27 | GAN800 | Hehe |
| 18:38.31 | alterego | Hah |
| 18:38.45 | andre___ | or more like this?: http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/files/2008/01/behdadstshirt.jpg |
| 18:38.48 | b-man | Stslaptop; ware is osso-dsp-modules-rx-34? i can't find it enyware in the repo :( |
| 18:39.09 | GAN800 | I guess timeless was shooting for monthly, but we'd probably be better off di |
| 18:39.16 | GAN800 | doing it quarterly |
| 18:39.22 | alterego | Someone here might be able to help. I have a couple of packages that should be part of the 'all' architecture. When I build for armel and i386 it recreates them and screws the md5 sum for the previous build. |
| 18:39.24 | Stslaptop | b-man: you cannot distribute that along with your ubuntu image so :P |
| 18:39.30 | alterego | How do I fix the .changes file? |
| 18:39.45 | alterego | automatically that is, I don't want to have to do it by hand. |
| 18:39.52 | Stslaptop | b-man: it's a closed source nokia package, so |
| 18:40.09 | GAN800 | andre___, ha! |
| 18:40.14 | b-man | how can i get permissions to use it? |
| 18:40.27 | GAN800 | Same, except for bug #5000. ;) |
| 18:40.37 | Stslaptop | b-man: that's where you wait for mer & maemo.org to work :P |
| 18:40.52 | b-man | heh |
| 18:40.54 | Stslaptop | we used a "trick" in deblet, but i wouldnt recommend it for real use |
| 18:41.01 | Stslaptop | (the non-free local repository) |
| 18:41.07 | andre___ | GAN800, i only remember that behdad was up for 9 hours to file #500000 and he was beaten by two other people (crevette and me) :-P |
| 18:41.24 | alterego | Heh |
| 18:41.35 | GAN800 | lcuk, I used FBReader again for the first time since October and it feels way slower now for some reason. <_< |
| 18:41.38 | b-man | what kind of "trick"? :) |
| 18:41.52 | Stslaptop | b-man: you'll have to look at deblet installer source and the -nonfree packages |
| 18:42.05 | GAN800 | lol |
| 18:42.09 | lcuk | well i stepped originally from my decrepid old 200mhz loox pda to my nokia at double speed and felt the same way ;) |
| 18:42.18 | Stslaptop | in any case, if you include that functionality, you cannot distribute the tar.gz with your ubuntu installation, b-man :P |
| 18:43.04 | GAN800 | lcuk, make liqreader standalone and feature-complete already. :p |
| 18:43.31 | b-man | ok, so i won't include sound or dsp in my image :p |
| 18:43.38 | lcuk | i hear that about lots of things, ill say it again, i need to make liqbase a library (which i am already in the middle of doing) |
| 18:43.51 | alterego | Heh |
| 18:44.03 | lcuk | but its not going to happen instantly |
| 18:44.16 | lcuk | i have a job and family and relaxation first :) |
| 18:44.34 | b-man | *b-man starts muttering and dpkg --removes some packages* |
| 18:44.47 | GAN800 | I DEMAND IMMEDIATE SATISFACTION OR A FULL REFUND! :P |
| 18:44.55 | b-man | lol |
| 18:45.26 | lcuk | gan, speak to nokia about the refund, but if you wanna pay me ill find my chap-stick and kneepads |
| 18:48.27 | *** join/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host86-153-227-232.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:49.36 | alterego | Hmm, ruby start up time is pretty poor :) |
| 18:49.42 | alterego | contemplates ruby-launcher |
| 18:49.50 | RST38bis | gan: what again? the logical conclusion to winmobile on nit thread? |
| 18:50.04 | *** join/#maemo krutt (n=mk@p5B047A04.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:50.09 | Stslaptop | "i thought my NIT ran windows mobile or symbian, and i want my money back?" |
| 18:50.18 | alterego | Heh |
| 18:50.44 | *** join/#maemo bilboed-tp (n=bilboed@216.85.200-77.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 18:51.07 | GAN800 | RST38bis, I was thinking it was liqos and now I want a refund from lcuk. |
| 18:51.21 | *** part/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host86-153-227-232.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:52.33 | lcuk | alterego, i know you said that varargs wont come from c, but is it relatively easy to add bindings to ruby from my c code? |
| 18:52.47 | lcuk | shurrup gan :P |
| 18:52.47 | alterego | Extremely. |
| 18:53.10 | lcuk | is there a pointer somewhere.. |
| 18:53.10 | alterego | Making ruby bindings is very easy :) |
| 18:53.11 | RST38bis | gan: require it in blood! |
| 18:53.23 | alterego | I mean, actually, it's really hard. Ruby-Maemo is extremely complex. |
| 18:53.32 | alterego | :) |
| 18:53.54 | lcuk | ok then, ill go down the python route :P |
| 18:54.00 | alterego | :) |
| 18:54.05 | alterego | lcuk: http://www.rubycentral.com/pickaxe/ext_ruby.html |
| 18:56.09 | lcuk | Nokia-N810-23-14:~# apt-cache search ruby |
| 18:56.09 | lcuk | Nokia-N810-23-14:~# |
| 18:56.11 | lcuk | :( |
| 18:56.44 | alterego | deb http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/maemo/ diablo user |
| 18:56.47 | alterego | ;) |
| 18:58.10 | lcuk | :D |
| 18:58.46 | GAN800 | RST38bis, ass-pennies! |
| 19:00.40 | *** join/#maemo b-man (n=b-man@pool-71-124-106-242.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 19:01.57 | *** join/#maemo gentooer (n=asdfsf@pool-72-90-138-252.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 19:03.30 | b-man | it looks like i finally found a major bug with my Ubuntu install; the desktop restarts when i try to type in eny text with xkbd and matchbox-keyboard. :( Stslaptop; eny suggestions? |
| 19:04.34 | b-man | this problem doesn't seem to exzist in mer. |
| 19:04.45 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth_ (n=dforsyth@pool-72-66-105-102.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:05.12 | lcuk | b-man, i can imagine his response would be along the lines of "install mer" :D |
| 19:05.16 | RST38bis | off to watch Sherlock Holmes |
| 19:06.41 | b-man | nah, i just need a way to keep xorg from messing up when i try to use a vertual keyboard. |
| 19:06.49 | b-man | :) |
| 19:07.54 | alterego | Time for another ruby-maemo snippet me thinks :) |
| 19:07.57 | lcuk | yeah, is it any vkb? |
| 19:08.06 | b-man | yes |
| 19:08.18 | lcuk | oooer |
| 19:08.39 | b-man | except hildon-input-method - i haven't tested it yet. |
| 19:08.52 | RST38h | Ah, wait |
| 19:09.05 | RST38h | GAN: BTW, can I ask you a [horror] MacOS question? |
| 19:10.27 | b-man | no matter what people say, i'm not going to stop working on improving ubuntu for the nit :D |
| 19:10.32 | *** join/#maemo eathprod (n=oyvind@ti511220a080-1062.bb.online.no) |
| 19:10.46 | lcuk | b-man :) and good for you |
| 19:10.56 | b-man | i have too much enthusiasm to stop :) |
| 19:10.58 | lcuk | (and others who follow your trailblazing) |
| 19:12.34 | Stslaptop | b-man: hehe.. better finish your installer first ;) |
| 19:12.58 | b-man | yah ;) |
| 19:13.00 | b-man | *b-man gos and gets lunch* bye :) |
| 19:13.03 | lcuk | why are people in such a rush to finish everything all of a sudden :P |
| 19:15.36 | alterego | posts another ruby-maemo snippet on his blog. |
| 19:15.38 | alterego | :) |
| 19:19.17 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth (n=dforsyth@pool-72-66-105-118.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:19.56 | alterego | I kind of want to do something with gstreamer .. |
| 19:27.14 | *** join/#maemo gregorovius (n=diego@host222.190-31-7.telecom.net.ar) |
| 19:28.23 | RST38h | Like....KILL IT? =) |
| 19:30.42 | alterego | No, I want to do something _with_ it. |
| 19:30.47 | alterego | Like make a beautiful baby. |
| 19:31.47 | *** join/#maemo TrueJournals (n=User@c-67-173-67-77.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 19:32.54 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth (n=dforsyth@pool-72-66-105-118.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:33.02 | *** join/#maemo lool- (n=lool@montfermeil.dooz.org) |
| 19:33.59 | RST38h | alterego: I suggest trying females first. |
| 19:34.37 | RST38h | gstreamer isn't very useful in this aspect, or many others for this matter... |
| 19:36.53 | *** join/#maemo chenca (n=chenca@200.184.118.130) |
| 19:37.00 | alterego | yawns |
| 19:37.26 | qwerty12_N800 | Humping GStreamer too for you? :p |
| 19:37.34 | qwerty12_N800 | *much |
| 19:37.47 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (n=fuchs@e179099246.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:45.00 | *** part/#maemo tmielika_ (n=tmielika@67.98.70.58) |
| 19:52.19 | *** join/#maemo Vulcanis (n=sporks@ool-43566062.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 19:54.12 | *** join/#maemo fie (i=nobody@lan-reodist-184-222.customer.ntelos.net) |
| 19:59.01 | *** join/#maemo eichi_ (n=eichi@p5B2010F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:59.47 | *** join/#maemo b-man (n=b-man@96.230.235.113) |
| 20:01.10 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth_ (n=dforsyth@pool-72-66-104-48.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:03.35 | pupnik | like a hungry, angry baby |
| 20:05.48 | RST38h | added standardized touch screen support to EMULib |
| 20:06.15 | lcuk | RST38h, using xsp on maemo? |
| 20:07.05 | RST38h | lcuk: not really, I have got a gtk widget for that |
| 20:07.28 | lcuk | where are you getting touch reports from then? |
| 20:07.52 | RST38h | gtk_widget_get_pointer(Widget,&X,&Y); |
| 20:08.22 | RST38h | you do not want to get touch reports from GTK on Maemo - it will slow your app to a crawl |
| 20:09.07 | lcuk | i use either x11 itself or xsp |
| 20:09.24 | lcuk | but xsp needs beating to a pulp in some situations |
| 20:11.51 | lcuk | (mainly due to it being a full touch surface library and operating in windowed mode doesnt work too well without messing) |
| 20:12.01 | RST38h | I just read the position when I need it |
| 20:12.15 | alterego | pupnik: I've setup a ruby-maemo apt repository with i386 and armel packages. It has the current stable release. If you installed the other packages manually you'll have to uninstall them. The repo is: "http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/maemo/ diablo user" |
| 20:12.27 | RST38h | lcuk: That is because you have not followed advice and created a standard transparent gtk widget filling the whole screen |
| 20:13.06 | lcuk | thats because i have not initialized GTK nor do i need to, a core x11 window works nicer and is less resource intensive |
| 20:13.06 | RST38h | lcuk: while it does not have to draw itself, it will take care of accepting and processing input |
| 20:13.07 | pupnik | alterego: i'll pull my old packages and link to that ok? |
| 20:13.15 | alterego | Yes please :) |
| 20:13.22 | lcuk | RST38h, can your touch thingy accept pressure? |
| 20:13.42 | RST38h | lcuk: Not using pressure reading - I only need it to simulate joypad |
| 20:14.01 | lcuk | then the x11 one i have is exactly the same |
| 20:14.18 | lcuk | when compiled without xsp library liqbase drops back to using core default x11 mourse readings |
| 20:16.48 | pupnik | alterego: i nuked my gregale/bora debs |
| 20:16.58 | alterego | Ah |
| 20:17.04 | alterego | Well, I'm not supporting them at the moment. |
| 20:17.17 | alterego | If anyone requests them I'll back port but I'm not going to bother otherwise. |
| 20:17.27 | *** join/#maemo housetier (n=housetie@unaffiliated/housetier) |
| 20:18.30 | pupnik | right |
| 20:22.24 | alterego | Trying to get my head around libosso again ^_^ |
| 20:22.42 | alterego | I'm writing some base code for my future ruby applications. |
| 20:23.43 | *** join/#maemo murrayc_ (n=murrayc@host-88-217-185-158.customer.m-online.net) |
| 20:25.12 | *** join/#maemo Grackle (n=Alex@227-230.suscom-maine.net) |
| 20:32.28 | *** join/#maemo CiroipN810 (n=user@rrcs-24-172-83-90.midsouth.biz.rr.com) |
| 20:35.32 | *** join/#maemo borism (n=boris@195-50-201-40-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) |
| 20:37.35 | lcuk | hiya CiroipN810, that clock of yours is looking fiiiiiiine :D |
| 20:38.17 | CiroipN810 | oh,good afternoon lcuk |
| 20:38.33 | CiroipN810 | happy new year |
| 20:38.38 | alterego | Damnit, "Application did not provide valid .desktop file" :( |
| 20:39.37 | lcuk | and a happy new year to yourself, seems odd that we say such things here but not in formal forums |
| 20:39.47 | CiroipN810 | 10x u, yes works fine on the tablet but i guess still not 100% ready |
| 20:41.01 | CiroipN810 | im old school lcuk, every place on internet is the same for me :) |
| 20:44.21 | lcuk | CiroipN810, never seen it as such, different perspectives with single liners |
| 20:45.50 | CiroipN810 | I always try to keep it real with real heads behind the monitor :) |
| 20:46.56 | lcuk | damn! thats where ive been going wrong all this time, i thought i was involved in some big simulation :D :P |
| 20:48.19 | CiroipN810 | lol,yes, well some places overwhelm people i guess. I can hardly feel facebook people real |
| 20:52.17 | *** join/#maemo Grackle (n=Alex@227-230.suscom-maine.net) |
| 20:57.08 | alterego | Why can't it tell you _why_ the damn .desktop file isn't valid >:( |
| 20:58.29 | alterego | starts to get angry. |
| 20:59.20 | qwerty12_N800 | usually finds out his desktop files are invalid when hildon-desktop restarts :) |
| 20:59.47 | alterego | Any tips on what the usual causes are? |
| 21:00.07 | qwerty12_N800 | Can you pastebin the file? |
| 21:00.14 | alterego | Sure, hang on. |
| 21:00.16 | lcuk | it not passing the validity test is one primary reason |
| 21:00.52 | lcuk | alterego, dont let qwerty anywhere near your package scripts ;) |
| 21:00.58 | *** join/#maemo lool- (n=lool@montfermeil.dooz.org) |
| 21:01.16 | alterego | http://pastie.org/350861 |
| 21:03.05 | qwerty12_N800 | tried making the exec line Exec=ruby 1.8 /home/t.swindell/projects/ruby-maemo/framework/framework.rb |
| 21:03.15 | alterego | Erm, the program runs. |
| 21:03.21 | lcuk | alterego, on the tablet does /home/t.swindell exist? i thought we had /home/user |
| 21:03.33 | alterego | I'm just getting a ".desktop file is not valid" error when I start it. |
| 21:03.48 | qwerty12_N800 | alterego,, Ah, is this a libosso thing? |
| 21:03.59 | alterego | No, |
| 21:04.04 | alterego | No libosso yet. |
| 21:04.32 | qwerty12_N800 | Hmm, is it hildon-desktop itself giving you the error? |
| 21:04.42 | alterego | Yes |
| 21:04.52 | alterego | hildon-desktop[26373]: GLIB WARNING ** default - Application Ruby Base did not provide valid .desktop file |
| 21:05.33 | qwerty12_N800 | Lemme install the error visualizer and try out your desktop file |
| 21:06.03 | *** part/#maemo SHADOW__X (n=Ghost36@c-24-0-8-231.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 21:06.18 | lcuk | maybe the runcode returned from ruby when it executes is invalid? |
| 21:06.39 | alterego | O_o |
| 21:06.53 | alterego | It wont return until the application terminates. |
| 21:07.01 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth (n=dforsyth@pool-72-66-104-48.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:08.55 | lcuk | alterego, its not something as silly as I get from gcc if i dont put a trailing blank line |
| 21:09.12 | alterego | Tried with and without .. |
| 21:09.25 | lcuk | to get the default icon btw i dont think you need to specify an icon line |
| 21:09.46 | lcuk | i never included one with my liqremote thing |
| 21:09.53 | alterego | Yes, well. I did that to stop it complaining about an icon line :P |
| 21:11.03 | lcuk | what complained about an icon line? |
| 21:11.11 | lcuk | when you installed it, or when you click it |
| 21:11.34 | alterego | Clicked it. |
| 21:13.31 | *** join/#maemo roue (n=roue@afterthought.ACS.Carleton.edu) |
| 21:23.22 | alterego | Interesting .. |
| 21:23.43 | alterego | Well, it's working now. It has something to do with the application name me thinks .. |
| 21:24.11 | qwerty12_N800 | alterego, I couldn't get that message repeated here anyway :p |
| 21:24.43 | alterego | It's happening when I use 'GLib#set_application_name' :/ |
| 21:25.42 | *** join/#maemo TrueJournals (n=User@c-67-173-67-77.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 21:26.16 | oli | can i play rmvb files on n800 (without conversion) ? |
| 21:30.11 | *** join/#maemo ciroip (n=ciroip@rrcs-24-172-83-90.midsouth.biz.rr.com) |
| 21:31.56 | *** join/#maemo alterego (n=tswindel@88-110-100-184.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:36.42 | alterego | Anyone know why g_set_application_name would have an adverse effect on the .desktop file? |
| 21:36.59 | *** join/#maemo birunko (n=birunko@201.47.190.107) |
| 21:38.04 | alterego | I wonder if it's to do with WM_CLASS .. |
| 21:38.51 | alterego | Yes, yes it is :) |
| 21:38.54 | alterego | :D |
| 21:39.10 | alterego | StartupWMClass has to be the same as g_set_application_name :) |
| 21:39.51 | *** join/#maemo sin18 (n=sin18@pool-71-100-21-253.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 21:45.14 | *** join/#maemo nikola (n=nikola@137.48.130.86) |
| 21:45.43 | nikola | hello all |
| 21:46.13 | TrueJournals | Hello |
| 21:46.30 | nikola | i have invoked 'update-rc.d -f hildon-desktop remove' |
| 21:46.46 | nikola | then ran 'update-rc.d -f hildon-desktop defaults' |
| 21:46.55 | nikola | but hildon desktop still won't run |
| 21:46.58 | nikola | any ideas? |
| 21:47.11 | nikola | Nokia n810, by the way |
| 21:47.14 | nikola | with Maemo Diablo |
| 21:47.25 | TrueJournals | Pffft... no :-P |
| 21:47.34 | *** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@147.17.168.202-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 21:47.42 | TrueJournals | Ummm... don't do that next time? ;-) |
| 21:47.57 | nikola | lol, i am trying to set it up to only run my app |
| 21:48.00 | nikola | and it works |
| 21:48.05 | nikola | however, i cant get it back ;) |
| 21:51.21 | Stskeeps | look at the postinst of hildon-desktop maybe? |
| 21:51.27 | Stskeeps | in var/lib/dpkg/info |
| 21:52.57 | alterego | Okay, so I've got OSSO working correctly now too :) |
| 21:54.52 | lcuk | nikola, have you also been messing and manually shifting stuff around inside /etc/init.d |
| 21:55.08 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth_ (n=dforsyth@pool-71-191-140-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:55.26 | nikola | no i have not |
| 21:55.52 | lcuk | reading on here about adding the service: http://www.debuntu.org/how-to-manage-services-with-update-rc.d |
| 21:56.12 | lcuk | does it do basically the same thing when you readd it or does it skip some or does it give errors |
| 21:57.49 | nikola | it places the same links in the rc folders |
| 21:57.56 | nikola | S20...etc |
| 21:58.24 | lcuk | can only suggest following Stskeeps' advice and try checking out the postinst |
| 21:59.10 | lcuk | but nikola stopping hildon desktop brings up everything else and the machine works fully, just without a desktop? |
| 22:02.22 | alterego | Hmm, so it registers with OSSO correctly, but it still dies after a minute or so. |
| 22:03.46 | *** join/#maemo pupnik (n=pupnik@pD95FEF8B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:03.49 | nikola | yes, all other apps work correctly |
| 22:04.07 | lcuk | does your desktop specify the osso bit and have you got a service file in /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.maemo.liqbase.service |
| 22:04.21 | lcuk | raises an eyebrow @ nikola |
| 22:04.39 | nikola | running any X app using ssh will work fine |
| 22:04.55 | nikola | also starting hildon-desktop with /etc/init.d/hildon-desktop works as weel |
| 22:04.58 | nikola | well* |
| 22:04.58 | lcuk | how do i shutdown dresktop just for this session? |
| 22:05.34 | lcuk | desktop* |
| 22:06.09 | nikola | run /etc/init.d/hildon-desktop stop |
| 22:06.22 | lcuk | oooh |
| 22:07.25 | lcuk | ooooOOOoooh indeed, but totally OTT, i cant bring back my apps ;) |
| 22:07.46 | nikola | ;) that's true |
| 22:07.49 | qwerty12_N800 | nikola, hd can be anal retentive with desktop plugins to. I once installed an applet and hd would stay white. Tried moving the folder /home/user/.osso/hildon-desktop? |
| 22:07.50 | nikola | you running an ssh session? |
| 22:08.35 | qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, ssh or edit /etc/systemui/systemui.xml to enable the option to let you run an xterm. clunky but works. |
| 22:08.38 | lcuk | yeah nikola, im only perking now because of this from this morning, but its merely academic |
| 22:08.39 | lcuk | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=253958 |
| 22:09.03 | lcuk | qwerty12_N800, thats the core base desktop thats always there? |
| 22:09.45 | qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, i'm referring to ways to get an shell so you can start hildon desktop |
| 22:09.48 | lcuk | hildon apps still expect hildon bits there and look wrong when theres no applets to put in titlebar |
| 22:09.55 | lcuk | ive got ssh |
| 22:10.00 | lcuk | or i can just reboot |
| 22:10.26 | qwerty12_N800 | rebooting is slow :) |
| 22:10.29 | lcuk | wicked how it comes back |
| 22:10.33 | lcuk | /etc/init.d/hildon-desktop start worked |
| 22:10.56 | *** join/#maemo mat (n=mat@igoan/mat) |
| 22:11.02 | nikola | yeah, that's why i don't get why it's not working on startup |
| 22:11.11 | lcuk | i never knew that before :) thanks for the hints nikola, still not sure how to fix your actual problem though |
| 22:11.42 | nikola | i just reflashed the device...gonna do a diff on /etc before and after running update-rc.d |
| 22:11.57 | nikola | to see if anything else changes |
| 22:14.57 | lcuk | alterego, :$ whats wrong with using the maemo repositories by the way? |
| 22:15.11 | alterego | lcuk: I don't have access. |
| 22:15.22 | alterego | As soon as I get access to extras they'll be moved there. |
| 22:15.26 | lcuk | temporary, or on principle that its ruby? |
| 22:15.33 | lcuk | :D heh good |
| 22:15.52 | qwerty12_N800 | alterego, btw, metasploit doesn't like your ruby :P |
| 22:16.04 | alterego | What's metasploit? |
| 22:16.58 | qwerty12_N800 | ~wikipedia metasploit |
| 22:17.23 | alterego | Why doesn't it like my ruby? |
| 22:18.24 | lcuk | i think hes joking |
| 22:18.36 | qwerty12_N800 | it complains about many bugs being in the ruby interpreter and then quits withdrawa bunch of ruby errors. Pierre's version works, I'll get you a log tomorrow |
| 22:18.44 | qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, I'm not. |
| 22:18.46 | lcuk | oooh no |
| 22:18.51 | alterego | O_o |
| 22:19.09 | qwerty12_N800 | s/withdrawa/with |
| 22:19.18 | qwerty12_N800 | fkn text prediction |
| 22:19.42 | alterego | I don't get it. Does it run on ruby? |
| 22:19.56 | qwerty12_N800 | Yep, uses ruby. |
| 22:20.06 | alterego | Okay |
| 22:20.47 | lcuk | qwerty12_N800, your knowledge and pie dipping astounds me more and more |
| 22:21.46 | alterego | gives up. |
| 22:21.51 | qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, not really, I followed a guide on setting it up but tried alterego's ruby version instead :) |
| 22:22.17 | lcuk | cool |
| 22:22.17 | alterego | Which version? |
| 22:22.30 | nikola | aha! after doing a diff on /etc....it seems hildon-dekstop is S51, K20...whereas the defaults make it S20, K20 |
| 22:22.40 | qwerty12_N800 | alterego, the current one in your repo |
| 22:23.03 | alterego | What version and package of metasploit did you use? |
| 22:23.54 | alterego | Hmm, starting to feel hungry now. |
| 22:24.02 | qwerty12_N800 | alterego, 3.2 - the current version, it's distributed as a tarball |
| 22:25.54 | lcuk | nikola, excellent, at least you know now |
| 22:26.31 | alterego | Is that the "lite" version qwerty12_N800? |
| 22:26.39 | alterego | orders a takeaway |
| 22:26.49 | qwerty12_N800 | alterego, the full version |
| 22:26.59 | alterego | sh*t .. Too late for a takeaway! :( |
| 22:27.05 | *** join/#maemo KamikaziFreak (n=moose@71-89-155-48.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com) |
| 22:27.44 | nikola | just rebooted. she works now |
| 22:28.31 | KamikaziFreak | Does anyone know of a way to get xterm to have a sidebar instead of a bottom-bar on os2008? Why the heck did that get moved? |
| 22:29.31 | lcuk | i assume cos they added a keyboard and it makes sense to keep the clickable actions near your fingers.. |
| 22:30.06 | KamikaziFreak | But for the N800, it just makes your terminal even shorter. |
| 22:30.18 | alterego | Actually, it's not too late! :D |
| 22:30.58 | lcuk | alterego, anything is possible if you start the phone conversation with "sudo.." |
| 22:31.09 | *** join/#maemo penner_9090_ (n=penner_9@BAF013a.baf.pppool.de) |
| 22:31.20 | penner_9090_ | alle die 100.000euro wollen klicken |
| 22:31.22 | KamikaziFreak | I was looking in to a script to make os2007 packages useable on os2008, but I'm still not able to install them. |
| 22:31.23 | penner_9090_ | http://www.pennergame.de/change_please/7962323/ |
| 22:31.25 | Disconnect | spammer, sigh |
| 22:31.25 | penner_9090_ | http://www.pennergame.de/change_please/7962323/ |
| 22:31.27 | penner_9090_ | http://www.pennergame.de/change_please/7962323/ |
| 22:31.32 | qwerty12_N800 | KamikaziFreak, there's some older versions of osso-xterm for os2008 somewhere with tabs and the bar on the side by fiferboy I think |
| 22:31.33 | penner_9090_ | http://www.pennergame.de/change_please/7962323/ |
| 22:31.39 | penner_9090_ | oll klicken |
| 22:31.46 | lcuk | penner_9090_, i believe thats called spamming |
| 22:31.47 | *** join/#maemo tomaw (i=tom@freenode/staff/tomaw) |
| 22:31.54 | lcuk | but i cant be sure |
| 22:32.19 | penner_9090_ | http://www.pennergame.de/change_please/7962323/ |
| 22:32.22 | penner_9090_ | oll klciken |
| 22:32.26 | tomaw | did penner_9090_ just spam some url here? |
| 22:32.28 | penner_9090_ | http://www.pennergame.de/change_please/7962323/ |
| 22:32.30 | penner_9090_ | http://www.pennergame.de/change_please/7962323/ |
| 22:32.31 | qwerty12_N800 | yep |
| 22:32.31 | penner_9090_ | http://www.pennergame.de/change_please/7962323/ |
| 22:32.32 | tomaw | I'll take that as a yes |
| 22:32.34 | lcuk | i believe he did |
| 22:32.38 | qwerty12_N800 | heh |
| 22:32.42 | qwerty12_N800 | Thanks! |
| 22:32.48 | tomaw | np |
| 22:34.02 | alterego | Chicken Tikka Bhuna, Nan bread, Special rice .. DONE |
| 22:34.10 | alterego | That was my best Gordon impression. |
| 22:34.46 | lcuk | E: couldn't delivery food to ruby developer |
| 22:35.01 | alterego | NO!!!! |
| 22:35.14 | alterego | The worst part is I'm going to have to wait about 40 minutes for food O_O |
| 22:35.28 | lcuk | the worst part is when you have to ring back |
| 22:35.47 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-53-225.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net) |
| 22:35.54 | lcuk | "why haven't you delivered my food" "the driver has been out for the last 25 minutes, hang on ill find out" |
| 22:35.54 | alterego | Interesting, I've set the fully qualified application name to osso_initialize and it starts working properly O_O |
| 22:36.11 | lcuk | and you get warm plasticbagsweaty soggy naan |
| 22:36.16 | alterego | "He's eaten your food!" .. "Thank you, come again!" |
| 22:36.48 | alterego | Okay, so my base code now registers with OSSO and handles fullscreen button pressed :) |
| 22:37.07 | alterego | Next to map all of the aux keys. |
| 22:37.59 | alterego | is developing MoR (Maemo on Rails) ^_^ |
| 22:38.18 | alterego | It's going to be the next big thing in mobile space development platforms. |
| 22:40.34 | *** part/#maemo tomaw (i=tom@freenode/staff/tomaw) |
| 22:41.48 | *** join/#maemo ignacius (n=ignacius@214.Red-88-27-165.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 22:42.27 | KamikaziFreak | qwerty12_N800, thank you. I got it installed. The buttons look horrible (hopefully that's a theme issue that'll fix itself somehow), but at least they're in a more practical area. |
| 22:42.53 | *** part/#maemo nikola (n=nikola@137.48.130.86) |
| 22:48.46 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth (n=dforsyth@pool-71-191-140-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:48.50 | alterego | contemplates setting 'decrease' to automate his ironing. |
| 22:49.03 | *** join/#maemo sin18 (n=sin18@pool-71-100-21-253.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 22:51.02 | *** join/#maemo lpotter (n=lpotter@58.173.176.153) |
| 22:56.31 | *** join/#maemo ThatOneGuy (n=k@bas3-kingston08-1168065094.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:58.22 | ThatOneGuy | Can anyone help me with installing maemo sdk? I keep getting dependency errors when I try to do 'fakeroot apt-get install maemo-explicit' |
| 23:02.12 | alterego | It has arrived! |
| 23:02.45 | ThatOneGuy | oh know! |
| 23:04.21 | *** join/#maemo murrayc_ (n=murrayc@host-88-217-185-158.customer.m-online.net) |
| 23:05.40 | ThatOneGuy | noone can help me? |
| 23:07.32 | alterego | Go through it again, |
| 23:12.19 | ThatOneGuy | the entire installation? |
| 23:14.57 | alterego | No just delete the targets and try again |
| 23:15.13 | alterego | Actually, have you tried "apt-get update"? |
| 23:15.21 | ThatOneGuy | several time lol |
| 23:15.35 | ThatOneGuy | times* |
| 23:15.48 | alterego | Can you pastie.org your /etc/apt/sources.list in target please :) |
| 23:17.01 | ThatOneGuy | can I what? lol |
| 23:18.11 | alterego | In the development target: cat /etc/apt/sources.list and then paste it to pastie.org |
| 23:18.52 | ThatOneGuy | oh, gotcha |
| 23:20.01 | ThatOneGuy | http://pastie.org/350988 |
| 23:20.34 | alterego | Bora ? Old school :P |
| 23:20.40 | ThatOneGuy | yes yes lol |
| 23:21.20 | ThatOneGuy | I think that's what I want at least. 770 with os2007he |
| 23:21.57 | alterego | Yeah |
| 23:24.14 | ThatOneGuy | I think I just fixed it 0.o |
| 23:24.15 | alterego | Well, I dunno :/ |
| 23:24.18 | alterego | GOOD! |
| 23:24.19 | alterego | :) |
| 23:24.54 | *** join/#maemo Andy80 (n=andy80@host147-12-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 23:25.03 | ThatOneGuy | I changed the last line in my sources to 3.2 instead of 3.0 lol |
| 23:25.16 | alterego | :) |
| 23:26.04 | ThatOneGuy | thanks for the help anyway |
| 23:29.34 | alterego | Heh |
| 23:34.58 | *** join/#maemo gopi (n=gopi@ppp-71-139-26-62.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 23:38.45 | qwerty12_N800 | Well, jott's actually alive... |
| 23:40.22 | *** join/#maemo LinuxCode (n=Titan@unaffiliated/linuxcode) |
| 23:40.48 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth_ (n=dforsyth@pool-72-66-104-48.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:48.18 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf-n810 (n=hellwolf@a81-84-104-189.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 23:52.55 | lcuk | qwerty12_N800, how do you know |
| 23:53.51 | qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, guy said on itt that outpost & sse2 have been updated (rotation) for latest ssu and he's right |
| 23:54.15 | lcuk | heh |
| 23:54.24 | lcuk | ghosts in the system |
