| 00:01.54 | *** join/#maemo timely (n=timeless@a88-115-12-126.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 00:08.46 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf-n810 (n=hellwolf@a83-132-28-51.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 00:13.07 | *** join/#maemo krau[away] (n=root@189.81.169.57) |
| 00:14.30 | *** join/#maemo EspeonEefi (i=eefi@STRATTON-TWO-EIGHTY.MIT.EDU) |
| 00:18.25 | killfill | Mousey, alsamixer doesnt seem to exist.. :S |
| 00:18.29 | killfill | do you have it?.. |
| 00:19.32 | *** join/#maemo housetier (n=housetie@unaffiliated/housetier) |
| 00:19.55 | Mousey | rats |
| 00:19.58 | Mousey | no, i haven't checked |
| 00:20.11 | Mousey | those are just some cli mixers in debian/ubuntu i've seen.. |
| 00:20.19 | Mousey | maybe they can be built for/under maemo? |
| 00:20.25 | Mousey | apt-get source -b style |
| 00:20.30 | Mousey | shrug |
| 00:25.14 | killfill | hm.. :S |
| 00:28.48 | killfill | damn volume. S |
| 00:37.38 | *** join/#maemo zakkm (n=zak@CPE0004e28fe18c-CM0011e6c4092f.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 00:44.14 | *** join/#maemo corq-FL (n=MI5@70.195.8.67.cfl.res.rr.com) |
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| 00:55.04 | l7 | http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081128-intels-linux-based-moblin-platform-arrives-on-devices.html |
| 00:55.58 | zakkm | hey l7 |
| 00:56.29 | l7 | heya zakkm |
| 00:56.37 | EgS | never heared of moblin... but those specs aren't shabby |
| 00:56.47 | zakkm | The platform leverages the GNOME Mobile and Embedded stack and uses Hildon, a derivative of the GTK+ toolkit that was originally designed by Nokia for Internet tablet devices. It also includes a modified version of the Firefox 3 web browser. Developers who want to get a head start hacking on the platform can download the source code from Intel's Git repository. |
| 00:57.01 | zakkm | has a modified version of firefox 3.. and uses hildon? |
| 00:57.10 | zakkm | why doesnt maemo have that then? :P |
| 00:57.10 | l7 | yeah, hildon |
| 00:57.23 | EgS | maybe it's fennec? |
| 00:57.41 | zakkm | ah maybe |
| 00:57.45 | zakkm | just curious ;p |
| 00:57.46 | l7 | isn't the problem the maemo's processor? |
| 00:58.04 | EgS | or firefox mobile or whatever they call it now... but fennec wasn't fun on the n810... way too slow |
| 00:58.17 | zakkm | it was slow on my pc too ;p |
| 00:58.21 | EgS | lol .9 |
| 00:58.23 | EgS | :) |
| 00:58.34 | zakkm | Pentinum E2180 dual;p |
| 00:58.57 | l7 | i wonder if nokia would considering using atom on it's n900 |
| 00:58.57 | EgS | o_O how did they achieve such bad performance?! |
| 00:59.17 | l7 | ubuntu is offically supporting atom on it's mobile remix as well |
| 00:59.44 | GAN800 | zakkm, we have exactly that. . . |
| 00:59.53 | zakkm | ubuntu supports my atom cpu :) |
| 00:59.57 | zakkm | x86 version though of course |
| 01:00.14 | GAN800 | The next release of Fennec should address a lot of the performance issues. |
| 01:00.29 | l7 | the street price of 368 USD makes it rather competitive with the n810 |
| 01:00.34 | GAN800 | l7, I hope the hell not |
| 01:00.47 | l7 | why not? |
| 01:00.56 | GAN800 | Unless you WANT an hour and a half of battery and 6 hours idle. :roll: |
| 01:01.04 | l7 | heh |
| 01:01.14 | GAN800 | Because the Atom is still shit as far as mobile CPUs go |
| 01:01.23 | GAN800 | It's not even an SoC yet |
| 01:01.39 | GAN800 | The OMAP3 is so much more badass |
| 01:01.51 | *** join/#maemo harry (n=kcome@58.213.212.27) |
| 01:01.56 | GAN800 | The Atom will MAYBE be competative in 2 years |
| 01:02.10 | GAN800 | But it's not even in the same league right now. |
| 01:02.11 | l7 | the article doesn't mention battery life |
| 01:02.13 | l7 | SoC? |
| 01:02.19 | EgS | system on chip |
| 01:02.22 | GAN800 | System on a Chip |
| 01:02.32 | GAN800 | Atom is just a CPU |
| 01:03.06 | GAN800 | OMAP3 is CPU, GPU, DSP, memory controller, and bus controllers on one die. |
| 01:03.24 | GAN800 | Which gives you rather significant cost and power savings. |
| 01:03.41 | l7 | then it'll need a bigger heavier battery to compensate i suppose |
| 01:03.42 | zakkm | what is the DSP exactly? |
| 01:03.44 | zakkm | whats its job? |
| 01:04.15 | l7 | i wonder what the real world battery life figures will work out to |
| 01:04.25 | GAN800 | Anyway, there's really no advantage--and several extreme disadvabtages--in using an x86 CPU when Windows compatability isn't in the equation. |
| 01:04.26 | soap | the kind of math associated with multimedia. |
| 01:04.47 | GAN800 | zakkm, Digital Signal Processor |
| 01:04.51 | l7 | when is fennec's next release coming out by the way? |
| 01:04.54 | zakkm | i know what it stands for |
| 01:04.56 | zakkm | but what does it do |
| 01:05.08 | GAN800 | l7, 1-4 hours active, maybe 8 idle |
| 01:05.31 | GAN800 | Compared to 4-8 hours active and 14-30 days idle. |
| 01:05.45 | GAN800 | zakkm, processes digital signals. ;) |
| 01:05.47 | EgS | dsps are strong in floating ops and are strong on MAC units and provide very lowlevel control |
| 01:05.57 | GAN800 | Audio and video decoding |
| 01:06.16 | GAN800 | l7, shouldn't be too far off |
| 01:06.41 | EgS | GAN800: you're involved in fennec development? |
| 01:06.50 | l7 | won't the intel architecture make it easier to port linux apps though? |
| 01:07.51 | EgS | compared to? other architectures? well gcc supports lots of architectures, so not really |
| 01:08.09 | GAN800 | EgS, no, I just like to stay informed and have talked to the devs a bit. :) |
| 01:08.15 | GAN800 | l7, no |
| 01:08.29 | EgS | GAN800: aah ok, but good to know. I really liked the concept of the interface |
| 01:08.42 | GAN800 | l7, barely anything is really architecture dependent these days |
| 01:09.12 | GAN800 | and the massive disadvantages of x86 far outweigh anyway. |
| 01:09.36 | l7 | okay, i was just curious why there aren't that many standard linux apps in the extras repo |
| 01:09.40 | EgS | many of those disadvantages can be coped with by the microarchitecture though |
| 01:09.54 | GAN800 | l7, that's a library/platform issue |
| 01:10.02 | GAN800 | maemo-gtk is a bit funkt |
| 01:10.07 | GAN800 | s/kt/ky/ |
| 01:10.16 | zakkm | is installing easy debian :P |
| 01:10.36 | GAN800 | EgS, massively higher power consumption compared to ARM being first and foremost. |
| 01:10.53 | EgS | GAN800: power consumption is not part of the architecture... |
| 01:11.19 | l7 | zakkm: where's the easy debian download? |
| 01:11.28 | GAN800 | an x86 CPU aint gonna be comparable to an ARM CPU anytime soon |
| 01:11.38 | zakkm | got it off forum |
| 01:11.41 | GAN800 | particularly when you factor in the chipsets. |
| 01:11.44 | zakkm | it was a "one-click" thingy |
| 01:11.59 | l7 | heh, i have to admit one-click has it's appeals |
| 01:12.06 | zakkm | ANNOUNCE: Easy Debian Turbo-Charged Edition! |
| 01:12.12 | EgS | GAN800: that is true though :) but as the architecture just defines the assembly commands it doesn't say anything about the power consumption |
| 01:12.47 | EgS | GAN800: but yes ARM is a very cool architecture |
| 01:12.50 | GAN800 | EgS, the reality is that you can't consider the architecture independly of other factors. :p |
| 01:13.10 | EgS | GAN800: due to the market requirements... yes :) |
| 01:13.28 | EgS | GAN800: theoretically you could... but then you would end up with a product no one would buy :) |
| 01:13.46 | GAN800 | Thus, moot discussion. ;) |
| 01:13.51 | EgS | :) |
| 01:14.56 | GAN800 | I want that ARM GPU |
| 01:15.13 | GAN800 | Ditching Imagination Tech would be great |
| 01:15.20 | l7 | so when is the n900 coming out? |
| 01:15.49 | GAN800 | It's not been announced, but Summer 2009 is a safe bet. |
| 01:15.55 | l7 | i'm guess it will have the n810's form factor more or less |
| 01:16.02 | l7 | s/guess/guessing/ |
| 01:16.28 | EgS | hehe cool feature of the bot :) |
| 01:16.37 | l7 | it is an exciting time to be a linux user these days |
| 01:16.45 | l7 | yeah, i love that feature |
| 01:17.07 | l7 | the wiki feature is cool too though i wish i knew what the index of possible commands are |
| 01:17.28 | zakkm | anyone think fremantle will be alot quicker than diablo? |
| 01:17.37 | GAN800 | l7, you just define them as you go along |
| 01:17.56 | GAN800 | ~l7 is a letter and a number. :p |
| 01:17.57 | infobot | GAN800: okay |
| 01:18.12 | l7 | lol |
| 01:18.13 | zakkm | l7 is a lucky number 7 :P |
| 01:18.24 | GAN800 | zakkm, on the same hardware? No. |
| 01:18.32 | zakkm | yeah same hardware |
| 01:18.44 | GAN800 | But more optimized? Significantly. |
| 01:18.50 | l7 | ~GAN800 is three letters and three numbers :) |
| 01:18.50 | infobot | okay, l7 |
| 01:18.53 | GAN800 | on faster hardware it'll scream. |
| 01:18.54 | zakkm | lol wouldnt that mean quicker? |
| 01:18.56 | zakkm | in a sense? |
| 01:19.06 | zakkm | depending optimization |
| 01:19.10 | GAN800 | zakkm, it's also heavier |
| 01:19.21 | GAN800 | Clutter and such |
| 01:19.54 | GAN800 | Diablo MicroB to Fremantle MicroB, Fremantle will be faster by a large margin. |
| 01:20.10 | zakkm | should leave microb :P |
| 01:20.23 | zakkm | google chrome! :P |
| 01:20.28 | zakkm | google chrome goes ARM! :P |
| 01:20.29 | GAN800 | Bleh |
| 01:20.43 | GAN800 | Chrome isn't designed for mobile platforms. |
| 01:20.55 | zakkm | has a sick tab feature ;p |
| 01:20.56 | Mousey | neither is android |
| 01:21.11 | GAN800 | It's designed to eat up big desktop machine resources to go faster. |
| 01:21.18 | l7 | Mousey: neither is android? |
| 01:21.26 | Mousey | i'm being silly, ignore me |
| 01:21.30 | l7 | heh |
| 01:21.55 | l7 | the fact that you need to jailbreak android devices bugs me |
| 01:22.36 | glass_ | but it's not surprising |
| 01:23.44 | l7 | maybe it's the prevent people from unlocking their phones |
| 01:24.03 | l7 | what do you guys think of the neo freerunner by the way? |
| 01:26.58 | zakkm | favourite phone is the tmobile sidekicks |
| 01:27.19 | GAN800 | l7, hardware sucks, software aint great. |
| 01:27.40 | GAN800 | hardware is understandable, but the software is just a mess. |
| 01:27.56 | l7 | yeah, that is my impression too |
| 01:28.15 | l7 | android will be available for it soon though |
| 01:28.20 | l7 | Koolu Beta port of Android will be available to download for existing Freerunner owners and installed on phones for sale in December 2008. |
| 01:28.39 | l7 | http://www.koolu.com/ |
| 01:28.58 | l7 | dunno if it's worth $400 USD though |
| 01:29.28 | l7 | zakkm: what do you like about the sidekicks? |
| 01:29.47 | *** join/#maemo philipl (i=1000@c-67-164-5-76.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 01:30.16 | zakkm | the design |
| 01:30.30 | l7 | can you get a decent terminal session with a few apps like ssh, wget and mplayer on it? |
| 01:30.33 | zakkm | i loved them way before the whole iphone, ipod touch, touchscreen stuff |
| 01:31.15 | zakkm | i also live in toronto, Canada so the only way to get one is like ebay ;p |
| 01:31.29 | l7 | the iphone or the sidekick? |
| 01:31.41 | zakkm | sidekick |
| 01:32.30 | l7 | weird, there's no tmobile in Canada? |
| 01:33.22 | zakkm | nope |
| 01:33.58 | l7 | i have to say the keyboard on the sidekick does look nice |
| 01:34.45 | zakkm | would like nokia + sidekick for actual calls |
| 01:35.11 | l7 | there's so many interesting devices in the pocket sized form factor |
| 01:35.28 | zakkm | its a cellphone though |
| 01:35.32 | zakkm | which i need for work |
| 01:35.41 | zakkm | and im 17 in a city... so teenage use too |
| 01:35.47 | l7 | heh |
| 01:35.59 | l7 | it looks like a nice texting platform |
| 01:36.16 | l7 | really, i just want to carry one device around anyway, so it has to be a phone |
| 01:36.44 | l7 | though i would probably get a n900 too if i found the extra cash at some point |
| 01:37.00 | l7 | and if it was truely The Awesome that it seems it will be |
| 01:37.11 | l7 | s/was/will be/ |
| 01:37.19 | zakkm | how do i type in easy deebian? |
| 01:37.43 | l7 | no bluetooth support? |
| 01:38.15 | l7 | i think you have to find the virtual keyboard app |
| 01:38.47 | l7 | there's a youtube video walkthrough of sorts if you look for deblet |
| 01:38.56 | zakkm | thats deblet though |
| 01:39.18 | zakkm | deblet kills battery alot i heard, so i figured i shouldnt use that |
| 01:39.24 | zakkm | thought easy debian might be better |
| 01:39.30 | l7 | hrm |
| 01:39.50 | l7 | isn't easy debian in the extras repo? |
| 01:40.07 | zakkm | yeah |
| 01:40.08 | zakkm | thats why i got it |
| 01:40.54 | zakkm | haha this so cool |
| 01:41.00 | zakkm | lxde on nokia |
| 01:41.21 | l7 | did you install easy-deb-chroot? |
| 01:41.24 | zakkm | yes |
| 01:41.28 | l7 | ah |
| 01:41.35 | l7 | no need to look in the forums for that |
| 01:41.56 | zakkm | i got it from forums though |
| 01:42.01 | zakkm | cause i wanted to read the installing notes |
| 01:42.28 | l7 | is it the same version? |
| 01:43.13 | zakkm | yes |
| 01:43.19 | zakkm | so slow |
| 01:43.29 | zakkm | maemo is soo much quicker |
| 01:44.07 | zakkm | heard it was slower, realized it must be.. but didnt realize this significantly |
| 01:45.50 | l7 | oh well |
| 01:45.59 | l7 | is deblet faster? |
| 01:46.06 | zakkm | never tried |
| 01:46.10 | zakkm | but i heard battery life sucks alot |
| 01:46.45 | l7 | i wouldn't mind trading a bit of battery just to play around with a faster system for a bit |
| 01:47.23 | zakkm | true but that would require a new partition and dualbooting and all |
| 01:50.24 | l7 | i would just put it on a spare SD care and wipe it after i'm done messing around |
| 01:50.32 | l7 | s/care/card/ |
| 01:51.07 | zakkm | dont have a spare ;p |
| 01:51.18 | l7 | oh well |
| 01:51.39 | *** join/#maemo z4chh (n=zach@cpe-75-186-150-159.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 01:52.17 | l7 | they're about $2-3 per gig these days including shipping |
| 01:52.35 | l7 | in the US anyway, dunno how much prices are like in CA |
| 01:53.14 | l7 | i was hoping my shiny new kingston card would be able to write at greater than 2MB/s though |
| 01:53.30 | z4chh | anyone know how to get the clear function for the nxxo shell? |
| 01:53.33 | l7 | maybe it's just an internal IO limitation |
| 01:53.46 | z4chh | it's kind of important :D |
| 01:53.54 | l7 | z4chh: there's ctrl-l |
| 01:54.06 | z4chh | aww i like clear though xD |
| 01:54.10 | l7 | i wish there was a proper clear command |
| 01:54.11 | l7 | me too |
| 01:54.18 | z4chh | i'm a clear guy >.> |
| 01:54.20 | zakkm | im in a city |
| 01:54.23 | zakkm | i dont buy anything shipped |
| 01:54.24 | zakkm | lol |
| 01:54.26 | l7 | same here |
| 01:54.35 | l7 | z4chh: try ROXterm |
| 01:54.43 | zakkm | i have 2, 4gb SD's |
| 01:54.47 | zakkm | which are in my nokia n800's |
| 01:54.49 | zakkm | but they're full |
| 01:54.52 | zakkm | and i boot off one of them |
| 01:54.59 | z4chh | it comes naturally to me...i see a screen full of information..my instict is to type clear as fast i can and snap that enter button :D |
| 01:55.12 | l7 | you can do reset and clear on ROXterm |
| 01:55.17 | z4chh | as in...get out of my sight! |
| 01:55.23 | l7 | yeah me too |
| 01:55.34 | z4chh | yay l7 clear buddies! |
| 01:55.39 | l7 | heh |
| 01:55.51 | l7 | it's just about minimizing the amound of clutter |
| 01:56.17 | z4chh | totally, you got to keep that terminal organized |
| 01:57.33 | z4chh | i finally added colors to my prompt on my n800..can't see how i lived without them o_o |
| 01:57.44 | l7 | oh yeah, there's a particular 32GB adata class 6 card out there that is really bad and can only write at 2MB/s even from a PC |
| 01:58.02 | l7 | but i also have a different adata card that is nice and fast |
| 01:58.14 | z4chh | you have a 32gb sdhc? |
| 01:58.15 | l7 | z4chh: how did you add color? |
| 01:58.20 | z4chh | .bashrc |
| 01:58.22 | l7 | no, i returned it |
| 01:58.36 | l7 | it was total crap in terms of speed |
| 01:58.39 | zakkm | 32gb is too much |
| 01:58.49 | l7 | not really |
| 01:58.56 | z4chh | id kill to have 64gb on my n800 ;p |
| 01:59.05 | zakkm | i would to, but price wise |
| 01:59.07 | l7 | it's great for media since i use mytube a lot |
| 01:59.08 | zakkm | not worth it to me |
| 01:59.19 | zakkm | canola caan download off youtube cant it? |
| 01:59.20 | l7 | hrm yeah, the price per gig is little more |
| 01:59.21 | z4chh | zakkm, yep not right now |
| 01:59.28 | z4chh | zakkm, with a plugin |
| 01:59.29 | l7 | hmm |
| 01:59.41 | l7 | oh wait, that was a 16 gb i got |
| 01:59.58 | l7 | it was all around $2 USD per gig actually |
| 02:00.08 | l7 | as long as your card doesn't crap out |
| 02:00.08 | z4chh | how much memory does the 16gb really give? |
| 02:00.34 | l7 | uhm 16gb, minus whatever formatting overhead you have |
| 02:00.39 | zakkm | z4chh: its a %.. |
| 02:00.59 | l7 | maybe ext has a lower % of overhead, not sure |
| 02:02.00 | z4chh | i'd probably format mine fat32..dos fs |
| 02:02.08 | l7 | why? |
| 02:02.19 | z4chh | why not? |
| 02:02.22 | z4chh | >.< |
| 02:02.24 | l7 | fat32's data integrity worries me a bit |
| 02:02.26 | zakkm | formatting doesnt actually do much |
| 02:02.34 | l7 | could be superstition though |
| 02:02.36 | zakkm | its cause they market 16gb as 16 billion bytes... |
| 02:02.43 | zakkm | but 16gb isnt 16 billion bytes |
| 02:02.48 | zakkm | 16 billion bytes is like 14 gb |
| 02:03.12 | zakkm | fat32, ext, ntfs.. doesnt change much |
| 02:03.31 | l7 | same level of data integrity? |
| 02:03.32 | zakkm | cluster size maybe, but yeah |
| 02:03.40 | zakkm | no like |
| 02:03.47 | zakkm | if you look at a box that says 120gb harddrive |
| 02:03.54 | zakkm | somewhere on it it says 120GB = 120 000 000 bytes |
| 02:04.05 | zakkm | but its 1024 kb to a mb ... not 1000 |
| 02:04.12 | zakkm | therefore its like 110gb... not 120gb |
| 02:04.43 | l7 | ext3 has journalling which protects you a bit in event of a crash |
| 02:04.53 | zakkm | its a marketing gimmick.. the advertised GB |
| 02:04.59 | l7 | mostly i don't want my huge cache of mytube videos to get corrupted |
| 02:05.11 | zakkm | event of a power crash ;p |
| 02:05.15 | zakkm | when would that happen |
| 02:05.22 | GAN800 | FAT isn't worth using unless you have to deal with non-Linuc machines, then it's required. |
| 02:05.29 | Mousey | needs to read GiB |
| 02:06.17 | l7 | zakkm: well applications do crash |
| 02:06.18 | z4chh | GAN800, true..that was probably my reason for using fat32..if i had to use a windows machine |
| 02:06.29 | zakkm | applications do |
| 02:06.32 | l7 | and there's random spontaneous reboots sometimes |
| 02:06.36 | zakkm | but journaling is for if its unmounted unsafely |
| 02:06.43 | zakkm | which would only happen if its a power cut |
| 02:06.53 | l7 | well not random, it's usually when i tax the system by opening a bunch of crap |
| 02:07.12 | zakkm | system being nokia or desktop? |
| 02:07.16 | z4chh | anyone know if osso_xterm can have the scrollbar taken off? |
| 02:07.22 | zakkm | z4chh: it can |
| 02:07.23 | l7 | zakkm: on maemo |
| 02:07.27 | zakkm | some gconf line |
| 02:07.43 | l7 | i don't think ubuntu has ever spontaenously rebooted on me |
| 02:07.54 | soap | how can a class 6 card only write 2 MB/s? That would be a class 2 card. |
| 02:08.10 | z4chh | zakkm, how so? i don't see a gui way to do it |
| 02:08.21 | zakkm | gconf line = command... |
| 02:08.33 | zakkm | or if gconf-editor .. is on the nokia, but i dont think it is |
| 02:09.02 | l7 | z4chh: try "gconftool --set --type=bool /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar 0" |
| 02:09.34 | l7 | who was it that originally mentioned that? |
| 02:10.09 | l7 | ~remove-osso-scrollbar is "gconftool --set --type=bool /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar 0" |
| 02:10.10 | infobot | l7: okay |
| 02:10.20 | l7 | ~remove-osso-scrollbar |
| 02:10.21 | infobot | hmm... remove-osso-scrollbar is "gconftool --set --type=bool /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar 0" |
| 02:10.34 | l7 | hrm maybe that should be |
| 02:10.48 | l7 | ~remove-scrollbar |
| 02:10.55 | z4chh | it works |
| 02:10.56 | z4chh | :) |
| 02:10.58 | l7 | heh |
| 02:11.22 | z4chh | now my xterm is without any gui filth >:) muwhahahahahhahah |
| 02:11.28 | l7 | ~remove-xterm-scrollbar is "gconftool --set --type=bool /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar 0" |
| 02:11.29 | infobot | okay, l7 |
| 02:11.53 | l7 | infobot, forget ~remove-osso-scrollbar |
| 02:11.53 | infobot | l7: i didn't have anything called '~remove-osso-scrollbar' to forget |
| 02:12.03 | l7 | doh |
| 02:12.33 | l7 | z4chh: you can still scroll by dragging and selecting text with the stylus |
| 02:12.45 | l7 | only works in windowed mode |
| 02:13.37 | z4chh | yep |
| 02:13.55 | z4chh | works great |
| 02:14.29 | l7 | soap: yeah that would make it a crappy class 6 card |
| 02:14.34 | l7 | could be counterfeited |
| 02:14.59 | johnx | or a class 6 card used in some machine not capable of utilizing its speed |
| 02:15.00 | l7 | or maybe they just hope nobody notices |
| 02:15.34 | l7 | well i did testing on a machine that could get decent speeds out of other cards |
| 02:15.38 | johnx | or in some situation that prevents that maximum speed from being reached |
| 02:15.50 | l7 | on two different card readers, no fragmentation |
| 02:16.11 | johnx | well, then it sounds like a class 2 sold as a class 6 |
| 02:16.15 | l7 | it still could be a card reader incompatibility that worked with all my other cards though, in theory |
| 02:16.56 | l7 | the n800's internal IO seems a bit slow anyway |
| 02:17.17 | l7 | but i want a decent card if i decent to put it to other uses later |
| 02:17.27 | johnx | it's quite fast compared to other ARM based linux machines I've used |
| 02:18.06 | l7 | scp seems to max out at around 700-800 KB/s anyway and sftp is even slower |
| 02:18.09 | zakkm | johnx: is deblet significantly faster than easy debian |
| 02:18.22 | johnx | i never used easy debian |
| 02:18.26 | l7 | what other ARM devices have you used? |
| 02:18.33 | zakkm | this is really slow |
| 02:18.35 | johnx | but if you're doing something that wants a lot of RAM, than probably yes |
| 02:18.35 | zakkm | lxde on it |
| 02:19.02 | zakkm | in school tomorrow i just want to be like |
| 02:19.04 | l7 | actually i mentioned write speeds, haven't measured read speed yet |
| 02:19.05 | zakkm | look, i got a laptop :) |
| 02:19.13 | zakkm | cause it will have a taskbar and all |
| 02:19.22 | johnx | l7, zaurus 5500, zaurus c1000 |
| 02:19.37 | johnx | so a strongARM and a PXA270 vs OMAP2420 |
| 02:20.21 | z4chh | i can't seem to find the man pages |
| 02:20.32 | soap | I _think_ the class ratings are on worst case / random writes at that. |
| 02:20.39 | johnx | they're not included. try man foo in google |
| 02:20.56 | z4chh | no man included? o_O |
| 02:21.10 | z4chh | what kind of linux is this >.< |
| 02:21.31 | johnx | the kind that fits in 128MB of flash |
| 02:21.50 | johnx | welcome to the realities of embedded software |
| 02:21.58 | z4chh | true ;p |
| 02:22.18 | *** join/#maemo dmsuperman (n=dmsuperm@unaffiliated/dmsuperman) |
| 02:22.29 | dmsuperman | does the N810 have a fullsize SD slot, or minisd? |
| 02:22.43 | johnx | mini |
| 02:22.47 | z4chh | dmsuperman, 1 mini sd |
| 02:22.55 | z4chh | n800 has two full size sd |
| 02:23.03 | *** join/#maemo jacques (n=jacques@nslu2-linux/jacques) |
| 02:23.12 | dmsuperman | I know the N800 does |
| 02:23.26 | dmsuperman | I have an N800, my friend is debating an Archos, or an N800 or an N810 |
| 02:23.28 | soap | I should say "non sequential" not "random", or is SD just THAT much slower than CF? |
| 02:23.30 | l7 | soap: wikipedia says that class ratings are based on the best fragmented state |
| 02:23.38 | l7 | ie an empty card |
| 02:23.40 | dmsuperman | Any ideas when the next of the NXXX line is coming out? |
| 02:23.50 | soap | because 6MB/s is only 40x |
| 02:23.56 | johnx | summer 09 |
| 02:23.57 | z4chh | dmsuperman, no official word yet |
| 02:24.04 | soap | very slow by CF standards. |
| 02:24.07 | l7 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card#SD_Speed_Class_Rating |
| 02:24.51 | soap | which says speed class is minimum |
| 02:24.58 | dmsuperman | :( |
| 02:25.02 | z4chh | johnx, is that official? o_O |
| 02:25.09 | johnx | no, of course not |
| 02:25.22 | z4chh | then why say summer 09? |
| 02:25.39 | johnx | because that's when Nokia has roadmapped maemo 5 final for |
| 02:26.06 | l7 | soap: my point is that it's based on the best case scenario |
| 02:26.10 | johnx | I guess "not before summer '09" is better |
| 02:26.15 | l7 | if you trust wikipedia anyway |
| 02:26.54 | l7 | SD speed ratings are a confusing quagmire anyway |
| 02:27.06 | z4chh | dmsuperman, i wouldn't buy the n810 anyways...not unless it drops like $150 >.> |
| 02:27.21 | dmsuperman | I agree |
| 02:27.29 | dmsuperman | I had a choice, I went with the N800 |
| 02:27.33 | dmsuperman | I'm glad for it |
| 02:27.35 | zakkm | paid $145 CANADIAN for his n800 |
| 02:27.41 | dmsuperman | Only thing I wish it had was a keyboard |
| 02:27.46 | l7 | it makes it really difficult to compare performance since the better cards can perform writes at 8-12MB per second |
| 02:27.52 | z4chh | dmsuperman, igo stoaway bt kbd |
| 02:27.57 | l7 | but nobody knows which cards though are |
| 02:28.06 | l7 | s/though/those |
| 02:28.13 | dmsuperman | I have it, it's very laggy and cheap though |
| 02:28.19 | zakkm | hey would any bluetooth keyboard work? |
| 02:28.26 | zakkm | would be handy to me for school |
| 02:28.32 | l7 | most should |
| 02:28.50 | l7 | are other keyboards like the apple keyboard less laggy? |
| 02:28.52 | dmsuperman | I use it at work and school to take notes |
| 02:29.02 | dmsuperman | But it's just piss-poor compared to a more integrated one |
| 02:29.09 | zakkm | dmsuperman: highschool or college/uni? |
| 02:29.18 | dmsuperman | zakkm: University |
| 02:29.20 | l7 | the igo has little to no lag on my phone, but maybe it has better drivers |
| 02:29.41 | z4chh | i take notes on mine in highschool...it is good enough >.< |
| 02:29.45 | dmsuperman | It's terrible on my n800 |
| 02:29.52 | l7 | a netbook seems like a better notetaking device anyway |
| 02:29.55 | dmsuperman | It takes a good while, and you can't ever hit the enter key while typing |
| 02:29.56 | l7 | dmsuperman: same here |
| 02:30.01 | dmsuperman | You have to finish typing, wait a moment, then hit enter |
| 02:30.02 | zakkm | cant afford a netbook |
| 02:30.11 | johnx | to reduce lag: turn off the text prediction bar |
| 02:30.14 | dmsuperman | And it crashes hildon a lot when I connect/disconnect it |
| 02:30.17 | l7 | yeah, i hit the up key instead of enter fairly often too |
| 02:30.17 | dmsuperman | johnx: It's off |
| 02:30.28 | l7 | yup, same here it's off |
| 02:30.30 | johnx | and don't type into the web browser :) |
| 02:30.40 | l7 | er why not? |
| 02:30.45 | dmsuperman | I hit up instead of ? a lot and repeat myself a lot |
| 02:30.47 | johnx | tends to be slow |
| 02:30.52 | dmsuperman | And sometimes it repeats characters a lot |
| 02:31.10 | l7 | Yeah, the repeat rate on it is a nuisance |
| 02:31.30 | l7 | i'm tempted to try out the apple bt keyboard, but i've heard it's also buggy |
| 02:31.37 | *** join/#maemo fiekia (n=user@c-69-244-238-56.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 02:31.37 | johnx | also, consider enabling "performance" mode for the CPU |
| 02:31.38 | z4chh | what do you guys expect from bluetooth? o_O |
| 02:31.38 | l7 | maybe the nokia keyboard works better |
| 02:31.53 | z4chh | l7 i doubt it |
| 02:32.05 | l7 | it works fine on my smartphone? |
| 02:32.11 | z4chh | ive heard even usb keyboards are just as slow actually |
| 02:32.16 | l7 | z4chh: doubt what? |
| 02:32.45 | z4chh | the nokia keyboard is better |
| 02:32.56 | l7 | oh |
| 02:32.56 | zakkm | johnx: on synaptic theres a package that says .. " this package provides hildon input method application binary" |
| 02:33.01 | dmsuperman | z4chh: I dunno, a $50 keyboard that works with 1/5 or worse the performance of my desktop $15 keyboard is pretty disappointing though |
| 02:33.07 | l7 | hard to say without having used it |
| 02:33.08 | zakkm | wouldnt that add proper text to debian? |
| 02:33.23 | l7 | the bt keyboard works fine on my laptop too |
| 02:33.37 | l7 | it's a maemo problem of some sort i'm sure |
| 02:34.00 | johnx | zakkm, "proper text"? |
| 02:34.02 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@189.70.63.202) |
| 02:34.06 | zakkm | uhh |
| 02:34.08 | zakkm | hildon typing |
| 02:34.08 | johnx | you mean the half-screen keyboard or the fullscreen one? |
| 02:34.13 | zakkm | rather than using on screen keyboard |
| 02:34.14 | *** join/#maemo Grackle (n=Alex@frenchad3-1.umeres.maine.edu) |
| 02:34.32 | johnx | debian *has* hardware keyboard support... |
| 02:34.47 | johnx | it's had it for 11 months |
| 02:35.19 | johnx | if it's not working for you, make sure you have HAL installed |
| 02:35.37 | johnx | then test your keyboard in the console to make sure it's actually being picked up by USB |
| 02:35.44 | johnx | did you enable host mode? |
| 02:36.05 | zakkm | i have the n800 |
| 02:36.11 | johnx | me too |
| 02:36.15 | l7 | what's HAL? |
| 02:36.24 | zakkm | hal = hardware detection |
| 02:36.27 | johnx | Hardware Abstraction Layer |
| 02:36.28 | dmsuperman | The thing that kills Dave |
| 02:36.33 | l7 | heh |
| 02:36.40 | johnx | or that machine from space odyssey |
| 02:36.50 | dmsuperman | :P |
| 02:36.59 | johnx | beat me to it |
| 02:37.02 | l7 | yeah, hard to resist that joke |
| 02:37.14 | dmsuperman | I'm sorry dave, I can't do that |
| 02:37.16 | dmsuperman | :P |
| 02:37.18 | johnx | zakkm, what is it exactly that you want? the maemo onscreen keyboard or hardware keyboard support? |
| 02:37.46 | zakkm | maemo onscreen keyboard |
| 02:37.48 | zakkm | in easy debian |
| 02:38.10 | johnx | ah, well thats totally different |
| 02:38.25 | l7 | I'm sorry Dave, I can't give you keyboard support. |
| 02:38.42 | l7 | otherwise you might try to sudo reboot me |
| 02:39.40 | z4chh | i really don't have a problem with my igo..it doesn't repeat characters..doesn't crash my hildon...it is a bit laggy..but certainly manageable |
| 02:39.59 | dmsuperman | I type "tacos" and sometimes I get "taccccccccccccos" |
| 02:40.06 | l7 | iiiiiit doesn't repeat characters?? |
| 02:40.27 | z4chh | i do most of my typing in terminal though |
| 02:40.27 | l7 | i suppose if you type with a light keypress it doesn't happen often |
| 02:40.28 | z4chh | o.o |
| 02:40.38 | johnx | dmsuperman, automatic spelling fixerer :) |
| 02:40.39 | l7 | can the keyboard repeat rate be adjusted? |
| 02:40.53 | johnx | man I could go for some taccccccccccccos |
| 02:41.13 | l7 | yeah i really like tacccccccccccooss too |
| 02:41.35 | dmsuperman | z4chh: As do I |
| 02:41.38 | dmsuperman | z4chh: With my iGo |
| 02:41.39 | z4chh | how do you pronounce taccccccccccccos hehe ;p |
| 02:41.45 | l7 | but sudo make me a tacccccccooooooo fails for some reason |
| 02:41.48 | dmsuperman | z4chh: I just reattach screen from home to my n800 |
| 02:41.52 | l7 | like goaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllll |
| 02:42.09 | *** join/#maemo inherited (n=inherite@dslc-082-082-090-031.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 02:42.34 | soap | this is really stupid - but how do i get to my home folder in the file manager? |
| 02:42.40 | Mousey | rm -rf / |
| 02:42.41 | l7 | screen is great though |
| 02:42.42 | Mousey | wait' no |
| 02:42.51 | z4chh | l7, yeah but if you try to say it..you go taaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacoooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| 02:42.52 | z4chh | :P |
| 02:42.55 | l7 | soap: maybe a symlink? |
| 02:42.57 | Mousey | soap, the file manager makes me sad |
| 02:43.04 | l7 | heh |
| 02:43.24 | soap | so you're saying I can't? |
| 02:43.33 | Mousey | the file manager makes me cry into my pillow |
| 02:43.44 | zakkm | any way to boot and just appear with tty ? |
| 02:43.52 | zakkm | like no X or kdrive started automaticly |
| 02:44.00 | l7 | lol |
| 02:44.11 | l7 | Mousey: there's always MC |
| 02:44.12 | Mousey | that's funny |
| 02:44.18 | z4chh | Mousey, you need to show that file manager who is boss >:) |
| 02:44.18 | johnx | are you sure you want your home dir? maybe what you really want is ~/MyDocs . In that case Nokia is way ahead of you :) |
| 02:44.40 | soap | don't make me strangle you |
| 02:44.47 | johnx | :D |
| 02:45.29 | johnx | I can see what they were trying to do, and I somewhat agree with hiding the rest of the FS, but I think they should have locked users into $HOME not $HOME/MyDocs |
| 02:45.43 | johnx | also a switch for "show me the rest of the FS, I accept the risk" would be nice |
| 02:45.56 | z4chh | Mousey, rm -rf didn't work :( |
| 02:46.21 | z4chh | rm -rf /* |
| 02:46.49 | l7 | if you really want do "ln -s /home/user /home/user/MyDocs/Home" |
| 02:47.03 | zakkm | wow |
| 02:47.11 | zakkm | Iceweasel is really cool on nokia ;p |
| 02:47.20 | l7 | is it fast? |
| 02:47.31 | l7 | it's just firefox 2 iirc |
| 02:47.33 | zakkm | same as microb i would say |
| 02:47.39 | zakkm | speed wise |
| 02:47.46 | zakkm | but its nice seeing a full browser |
| 02:47.55 | johnx | I assume you're using the ff3 version of iceweasel |
| 02:48.00 | zakkm | yes |
| 02:48.07 | zakkm | it matches my gtk icons, so i believe so |
| 02:48.22 | johnx | well it runs on ARM so it's ff3 :) |
| 02:48.25 | l7 | it uses gtk widgets? that is nice |
| 02:48.28 | dmsuperman | mv cp cd rm ln ls = best file manager ever |
| 02:48.42 | l7 | mmv is nice too |
| 02:48.52 | zakkm | when do you ever use ln in a real file manager? :P |
| 02:49.03 | l7 | i use ln all the time |
| 02:49.10 | zakkm | on terminal |
| 02:49.14 | zakkm | but on a real file manager? |
| 02:49.28 | l7 | what do you mean? |
| 02:49.45 | zakkm | it just always seemed pointless to me |
| 02:49.50 | zakkm | except for a little dev stuff |
| 02:49.56 | dmsuperman | zakkm: All the time |
| 02:50.17 | l7 | it's handy in making the actual home directory more terminal centric |
| 02:50.29 | dmsuperman | zakkm: symlinks and hardlinks own face |
| 02:50.46 | l7 | ie by linking .sounds to ~/sounds |
| 02:50.59 | z4chh | i dont use ln really o.o ...i do a lot of tabbing :) |
| 02:51.02 | dmsuperman | I link my themes folders from ~ to /root too |
| 02:51.11 | l7 | s/.sounds/~MyDocs/.sounds/ |
| 02:51.19 | dmsuperman | I use symlinks whenever possible |
| 02:51.29 | dmsuperman | That way I can move files around without having to affect anything at all |
| 02:51.51 | l7 | how does tabbing replace symlinks? |
| 02:51.55 | johnx | I tend to move big files between my 3 storage drives on my desktop and keep symlinks with their old locations |
| 02:52.08 | dmsuperman | l7: It's better not to ask questions |
| 02:52.13 | l7 | heh |
| 02:52.14 | dmsuperman | johnx: I don't move them, but I do that |
| 02:52.24 | dmsuperman | johnx: I keep my VM on another drive and symlink ~/.VirtualBox to it |
| 02:52.28 | l7 | johnx: which 3 big drives do you have setup? |
| 02:53.03 | l7 | on a real desktop machine rather than maemo? |
| 02:53.18 | dmsuperman | has almost 1.5TB of storage |
| 02:53.21 | dmsuperman | I have a data addiction |
| 02:53.28 | l7 | yeah same here |
| 02:53.41 | dmsuperman | Hard drive space is cheap |
| 02:53.44 | johnx | well, for example, my music used to live on an internal 200GB drive, then I got a 500GB USB drive and moved the music, symlinked it back to the internal and my music playing apps didn't need to re-import it |
| 02:53.45 | l7 | iiiiii need a better backup scheme for it |
| 02:53.49 | dmsuperman | Having many backups and never having to delete anything rocks |
| 02:54.02 | dmsuperman | l7: rsync + hardlinks = best backup solution ever |
| 02:54.09 | dmsuperman | l7: I wrote a script to do it, want it? |
| 02:54.20 | l7 | dmsuperman: sure, that would be cool |
| 02:55.02 | l7 | i've been playing around with simplebackup, but it's not capable of hardlinking |
| 02:55.44 | l7 | which means restoring incremental backups requires you restore every incremental since your last full backup if you want a complete restore |
| 02:55.48 | dmsuperman | l7: http://dmsuperman.pastebin.com/f5524b35 |
| 02:56.01 | dmsuperman | l7: Mine is meant to backup my "/" but you can adapt it |
| 02:56.18 | l7 | yeah, i guess i would add /etc to it |
| 02:56.52 | dmsuperman | No mine does /etc |
| 02:56.59 | l7 | ah cool |
| 02:57.22 | dmsuperman | It does a full backup of an ubuntu install, and very likely all other distros |
| 02:57.37 | dmsuperman | It doesn't copy /proc and similar virtual mountpoints and the like |
| 02:57.48 | dmsuperman | But it creates the mountpoints for them at the bottom |
| 02:58.45 | l7 | i guess i should print it out and study it a bit later |
| 02:58.57 | l7 | since i'm just learning bash scripting |
| 02:59.10 | dmsuperman | I could explain it if you like |
| 02:59.19 | dmsuperman | I'm pretty proud of it myself, was my first real bash script |
| 03:00.09 | l7 | hmm, what is the short explanation of how it works? |
| 03:01.14 | dmsuperman | First it defines some variables to be used for later |
| 03:01.51 | dmsuperman | Line 10 searches the backup directory for the newest one (simply by ordering the directory names, I named them by date in such a way that they return in chronological order) |
| 03:02.19 | l7 | ah, i like how it creaaaaates a date based directory for the destination |
| 03:02.24 | dmsuperman | Line 16 defines the folders to exclude from the backup, mostly just stuff that you wouldn't want to back up /proc and /sys and hte like |
| 03:03.05 | zakkm | do you all leave many apps running on nokia, even if your not particularly using it for like 30min or so? |
| 03:03.14 | zakkm | or do you open apps and close them as you use them |
| 03:03.22 | dmsuperman | Then the if statement checks if there is already a backup, if not it creates a backup |
| 03:03.33 | dmsuperman | If one already exists, it hardlinks the entire thing into the new backup dir |
| 03:03.47 | dmsuperman | And in both cases it uses rsync to copy all modified files from the current / to the backup one |
| 03:04.25 | dmsuperman | Then the bottom just creates the mountpoints so when you restore the backup it'll boot |
| 03:06.21 | l7 | oh, neat it's bootable |
| 03:07.13 | *** join/#maemo Meiz_n810 (n=Meizirkk@dsl-lhtbrasgw2-fe2cf800-231.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 03:07.46 | l7 | line 10 has me confused slightly |
| 03:08.45 | dmsuperman | That's the one that finds the newest backup |
| 03:09.07 | dmsuperman | It lists all of the directories in the backup directory, in reverse order, and returns the last one |
| 03:09.27 | dmsuperman | Since they're written like YYYY.MM.DD.HH.MM.SS they'll return newest last |
| 03:10.06 | l7 | oh, so this is what allows the incremental backup to work properly |
| 03:10.13 | dmsuperman | Right |
| 03:10.26 | dmsuperman | To avoid having to store them in a database or anything |
| 03:10.47 | dmsuperman | I just use the directory name as the backup date so I can easily determine the newest |
| 03:11.42 | l7 | doesn't this nest every new backup inside the last one? |
| 03:11.54 | dmsuperman | No |
| 03:12.18 | dmsuperman | dmsuperman@blitzkrieg:/backups/incremental$ ls |
| 03:12.18 | dmsuperman | 2008.11.04.02.30 2008.11.11.02.30 2008.11.18.02.30 2008.11.25.02.30 |
| 03:12.36 | l7 | oh right $DESTDIR is always constant |
| 03:12.47 | dmsuperman | Right |
| 03:13.12 | l7 | my battery level must be low |
| 03:14.36 | l7 | does rsync copy any symlinks over exactly? |
| 03:15.01 | dmsuperman | I forget what each argument means, but with the arugments I pass it copies them as symlinks |
| 03:15.19 | l7 | ah cool |
| 03:15.22 | *** join/#maemo corq-FL (n=MI5@70.195.8.67.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 03:15.57 | l7 | last time i messed around with rsync i ran into some problems with symlinks and used tar instead |
| 03:16.32 | dmsuperman | Yeah it's all about telling it the right arguments |
| 03:16.58 | dmsuperman | -v is verbose backup, --delete deletes files from the backup that no longer exist in the source dir |
| 03:17.09 | l7 | one thing i like about using tar is that it creates one big file which copies between filesystems much quicker |
| 03:17.28 | dmsuperman | That is good |
| 03:17.37 | soap | where do I set persistent aliases in the N810's shell? .bash_aliases? |
| 03:17.46 | dmsuperman | With rsync you can use sshfs though |
| 03:18.07 | l7 | maybe it would be possible to put each of these backups inside a gzipped tar file |
| 03:18.31 | dmsuperman | You could do that, add it to the script |
| 03:18.46 | dmsuperman | So after it rsyncs, you could maybe tar it up |
| 03:19.11 | l7 | yeah, i guess it could be done by storing it /backups/incremental/, then tar it |
| 03:19.16 | dmsuperman | The whole reason I like mine though is by using hardlinks it makes it incremental and barely any more storage used |
| 03:19.31 | dmsuperman | I have 4 backups of my 7GB /, totalling 10GB |
| 03:20.12 | l7 | do you put it into a cron job to run regularly? |
| 03:20.26 | dmsuperman | Yeah, I run it once a week |
| 03:20.31 | dmsuperman | I have a very similar one for my ~ |
| 03:20.38 | l7 | i've been trying to figure out the easier way to avoid backing up my huge media files |
| 03:20.42 | dmsuperman | Then I have another one that runs once a month to delete all backups older than 2 months |
| 03:21.05 | l7 | moving media files out of the home dir seems like one way to go |
| 03:21.16 | dmsuperman | Yeah my ~ only has configuration |
| 03:21.33 | dmsuperman | ~/Music and the like are symlinked to /media/Media which is a hard drive just for media |
| 03:21.34 | infobot | okay, dmsuperman |
| 03:21.42 | l7 | heh |
| 03:21.55 | dmsuperman | ? |
| 03:22.18 | johnx | ~/Music |
| 03:22.29 | dmsuperman | Oh haha |
| 03:22.32 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@189.70.63.202) |
| 03:22.50 | johnx | but I don't know what infobot is thinking of it internally |
| 03:22.51 | l7 | er infobot records any "~$foo is" statements into it's memory |
| 03:23.08 | johnx | I didn't know it would pick up a foo and bar are though |
| 03:23.16 | l7 | how to you tell infobot to forget things? |
| 03:23.22 | l7 | s/to/do/ |
| 03:23.34 | johnx | well, first you figure out what it thinks is the name, then tell it forget foo |
| 03:23.57 | johnx | ~/Music and the like |
| 03:23.58 | infobot | /music and the like are symlinked to /media/Media which is a hard drive just for media |
| 03:24.05 | l7 | infobot: forget ~/Music |
| 03:24.05 | infobot | i didn't have anything called '~/music' to forget, l7 |
| 03:24.11 | l7 | infobot: forget /Music |
| 03:24.11 | infobot | l7: i didn't have anything called '/music' to forget |
| 03:24.20 | johnx | give it the whole line |
| 03:24.26 | johnx | er |
| 03:24.35 | johnx | infobot, forget ~/Music and the like |
| 03:24.35 | infobot | i didn't have anything called '~/music and the like' to forget, johnx |
| 03:24.45 | dmsuperman | Hahahha |
| 03:24.45 | johnx | infobot, forget /Music and the like |
| 03:24.45 | infobot | johnx: i forgot /music and the like |
| 03:24.54 | l7 | heh |
| 03:25.03 | johnx | infobot, go cry in a corner |
| 03:25.14 | dmsuperman | Anybody know the easiest way, in a bash script, to determine 2 months ago? Like, I want September 2008. |
| 03:25.17 | dmsuperman | For today |
| 03:25.18 | l7 | infobot: forget remove-osso-toolbar and the like |
| 03:25.18 | infobot | l7: i didn't have anything called 'remove-osso-toolbar and the like' to forget |
| 03:25.30 | l7 | infobot: forget remove-osso-scrollbar and the like |
| 03:25.30 | infobot | l7: i didn't have anything called 'remove-osso-scrollbar and the like' to forget |
| 03:25.57 | johnx | it was "/Music and the like" because it picks up everything before the is/are |
| 03:26.04 | johnx | forget remove-osso-scrollbar |
| 03:26.09 | johnx | infobot, forget remove-osso-scrollbar |
| 03:26.09 | infobot | johnx: i forgot remove-osso-scrollbar |
| 03:26.42 | johnx | of course, every time I correct someone I must also make a mistake. that's how the universe balances :) |
| 03:26.52 | l7 | heh |
| 03:27.07 | l7 | dmsuperman: maybe there's a date command for it, but i need to learn more unix to know it |
| 03:27.31 | johnx | why not just keep x backups |
| 03:27.36 | dmsuperman | I know how to do date, but I'm not sure how to do like -2 months |
| 03:27.46 | dmsuperman | johnx: Just in case I make an extra backup for whatever reason |
| 03:27.54 | l7 | you could try touching a file to creat a file, then using touch to subtract two months from that file |
| 03:28.00 | l7 | then get the date from that file |
| 03:28.06 | l7 | rather convoluted though |
| 03:28.11 | johnx | you could number them in seconds since the epoch. that would make the math better |
| 03:28.45 | dmsuperman | I'm doing that |
| 03:28.52 | dmsuperman | But I'm not sure how to subtract 2 months from today in seconds |
| 03:28.59 | dmsuperman | -60 days doesn't always work |
| 03:29.15 | dmsuperman | Because months aren't all 30 days |
| 03:29.40 | johnx | well, you only want to delete things that are *older* than two months, right? so just make it the worst case: 62 days |
| 03:29.47 | l7 | yeah, our calender system is terribly imprecise there |
| 03:30.05 | johnx | much easier to do it by weeks |
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| 03:30.20 | l7 | hmm, good point |
| 03:30.27 | dmsuperman | Well basically |
| 03:30.41 | dmsuperman | I want to determine 2 months ago, then I can do rm 2008.09.* |
| 03:31.36 | dmsuperman | I dunno, I'm just trying to create a script to delete everything from >= 2 months ago |
| 03:31.53 | dmsuperman | I have one but for instance I ran it today and it deleted 2008.10.* |
| 03:32.03 | dmsuperman | So it's wrong. |
| 03:32.19 | johnx | you know about cut, right? |
| 03:32.24 | dmsuperman | :O |
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| 03:32.38 | dmsuperman | Oh, no that's not what I want |
| 03:32.48 | dmsuperman | How is that helpful? |
| 03:33.09 | johnx | thinking, hang on |
| 03:33.18 | johnx | this is an interesting problem :) |
| 03:33.23 | dmsuperman | :) |
| 03:33.59 | johnx | so once it's december, get rid of anything from september? |
| 03:34.03 | l7 | that's a laudable attitude |
| 03:34.13 | l7 | i would just find it aggravating usually |
| 03:34.24 | dmsuperman | johnx: Yeah |
| 03:34.24 | l7 | on december 1st i assume |
| 03:34.29 | dmsuperman | I'll run it on the 1st of each month |
| 03:34.41 | dmsuperman | And delete everything that's not from the previous month or the one before it |
| 03:34.51 | dmsuperman | I don't want to trust the modification time, I just have a bad feeling about that |
| 03:35.00 | dmsuperman | If I ever moved or copied it and forgot to preserve times or something |
| 03:35.50 | johnx | so really on the last day of november it should delete september? |
| 03:36.02 | dmsuperman | Sure, or the first of december |
| 03:36.07 | johnx | errr |
| 03:36.16 | johnx | that makes things difficult |
| 03:36.23 | dmsuperman | Why? |
| 03:36.55 | dmsuperman | I'd actually prefer anything September and older, that way it catches old stuff in case the cycle script doesn't run on time |
| 03:36.59 | l7 | there's a linux program called "time" something that uses this system too iirc |
| 03:37.03 | dmsuperman | But if not Just deleting september is fine |
| 03:37.04 | l7 | hardlinking that is |
| 03:37.19 | l7 | and of course apple's time machine |
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| 03:59.34 | johnx | dmsuperman, http://pastebin.ca/1271936 |
| 03:59.50 | johnx | I'm sure there's a better way to do this, but this made the most sense to me |
| 03:59.58 | johnx | maybe some clever use of find or somesuch |
| 04:01.01 | johnx | is that more or less what you want? |
| 04:04.40 | dmsuperman | johnx: I actually just finished writing my own |
| 04:04.44 | johnx | ah |
| 04:04.50 | dmsuperman | johnx: PHP has a string math function |
| 04:05.03 | dmsuperman | johnx: So I wrote a little thing that takes the strings and prints dates |
| 04:05.10 | dmsuperman | dmsuperman@blitzkrieg:~$ php-date 'Y.m' '-2 months' |
| 04:05.10 | dmsuperman | 2008.09 |
| 04:05.36 | johnx | seems fine |
| 04:05.39 | johnx | it's your script after all |
| 04:06.20 | johnx | I tend to stick with things available on all Unix systems (or at least GNU systems) when I script, but if you know you'll have php you might as well use it |
| 04:06.27 | dmsuperman | Right |
| 04:06.35 | dmsuperman | I would generally agree |
| 04:06.42 | dmsuperman | But this is a very specific script anyway |
| 04:06.47 | dmsuperman | Just to help me manage my stuff :P |
| 04:06.50 | johnx | exactly :) |
| 04:07.12 | johnx | and I just wanted to make sure my sh wasn't getting rusty |
| 04:07.16 | dmsuperman | Heh |
| 04:07.34 | johnx | and to make sure I was right about cut |
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| 08:32.05 | aquatix | morning all |
| 08:32.33 | StsN800 | morn |
| 08:33.59 | johnx | mornin' |
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| 08:41.12 | StsN800 | ponders setting up a betting pool on when alpha sdk comes out |
| 08:42.29 | johnx | if so, be sure to add that to the offical Mer roadmap |
| 08:42.55 | johnx | ex: "Step 2: Funding will be accumulated through a betting pool" :) |
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| 08:43.11 | StsN800 | hehe |
| 08:44.59 | StsN800 | shouldn't be long though |
| 08:45.32 | StsN800 | and im curious what effect it will have on svn |
| 08:45.48 | StsN800 | and how much come out |
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| 09:26.50 | lardman | morning |
| 09:27.07 | Meiz_n810 | hi |
| 09:27.20 | johnx | hallo |
| 09:28.29 | Stskeeps | lo |
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| 09:34.47 | timely | hi |
| 09:34.55 | timely | did anyone try my sketch hack package? |
| 09:35.52 | aquatix | timely: did you repackage it? |
| 09:35.59 | timely | no |
| 09:36.01 | aquatix | it depended on perl before, not perl-base |
| 09:36.02 | aquatix | ah |
| 09:36.05 | aquatix | well |
| 09:36.06 | timely | oh |
| 09:36.09 | timely | perl-base? |
| 09:36.13 | timely | yeah, i thought i refixed that |
| 09:36.14 | timely | lemme check |
| 09:36.20 | aquatix | if you want, please let it depend on perl-base :) |
| 09:36.24 | aquatix | maybe you already did |
| 09:36.35 | aquatix | i only tried your very first version i think |
| 09:36.51 | timely | the source claims to depend on perl-base |
| 09:36.53 | timely | can you try it? |
| 09:37.07 | timely | sorry, i never version my packages :) |
| 09:37.14 | aquatix | sure, url? |
| 09:37.16 | aquatix | same? |
| 09:37.39 | timely | yep |
| 09:38.54 | aquatix | hm |
| 09:39.14 | aquatix | the mime type in /usr/bin/osso_sketch.launch did not match the expected results |
| 09:39.35 | aquatix | post-removal script returned error exit status 1 |
| 09:39.47 | timely | oh, you're in trouble :) |
| 09:39.54 | aquatix | oh? |
| 09:40.00 | timely | does sketch still run atm? |
| 09:40.20 | aquatix | yes |
| 09:40.24 | timely | you can view application manager log i suppose |
| 09:40.29 | timely | it should explain what it didn't like |
| 09:40.39 | aquatix | this was with dpkg -i |
| 09:40.55 | timely | oh, did it not say what it didn't like? |
| 09:41.15 | aquatix | hm, no |
| 09:41.22 | timely | anyway, you should be able to delete /var/lib/dpkg/info/sketch-png* iirc |
| 09:41.27 | aquatix | only that it did not match the expected results |
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| 09:41.30 | timely | but that may or may not help matters |
| 09:41.55 | aquatix | well, it also gave the error with the post-removal script of the new package |
| 09:42.04 | timely | yeah, the script hasn't changed :) |
| 09:42.04 | aquatix | sec |
| 09:42.17 | timely | the code basically asserts that removing it should undo a change |
| 09:42.26 | timely | it doesn't understand what to do if the change isn't present |
| 09:42.34 | timely | that's too complicated for my tiny little mind |
| 09:43.44 | aquatix | meh |
| 09:43.48 | aquatix | can't remove it either |
| 09:44.03 | aquatix | `package is in a very bad inconsistent state, needs reinstall' |
| 09:44.06 | timely | yeah |
| 09:44.12 | timely | do the rm i suggested |
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| 09:45.14 | aquatix | sec |
| 09:46.06 | aquatix | huh |
| 09:46.10 | aquatix | now it installs :) |
| 09:46.10 | RST38h | moo, all |
| 09:46.12 | aquatix | weird shit |
| 09:46.15 | aquatix | moo RST38h |
| 09:46.52 | aquatix | hm |
| 09:47.01 | aquatix | timely: i now see png's in the open dialog |
| 09:47.09 | aquatix | but if i try to open one, it says file not found |
| 09:47.18 | timely | yeah |
| 09:47.26 | timely | you need to rename the file to foo.sketch |
| 09:47.29 | timely | then it'll open |
| 09:47.42 | timely | i don't think i can fix that w/o serious hackery |
| 09:47.51 | timely | i haven't quite tried, perhaps it's possible |
| 09:47.57 | timely | the code is very evil/broken |
| 09:48.20 | timely | basically it for some reason decides to append .sketch.png to some "file name" |
| 09:48.37 | timely | (a file name isn't something on the file system, it's its own strange concept) |
| 09:48.59 | timely | i'm trying to do my hacks w/o reading the source. i.e. i could have written the hack you have w/o seeing the source |
| 09:49.10 | timely | the .sketch.png info comes from running sketch from a terminal |
| 09:49.19 | aquatix | ah |
| 09:49.19 | timely | (or using strace) |
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| 09:51.56 | timely | anyway, if you want to try grepping for '.sketch.png' |
| 09:52.04 | timely | you could see how often it turns up in the file |
| 09:52.20 | timely | (if you do plan to do binary hacks, i highly recommend you make a copy of the binary first :) |
| 09:52.59 | timely | assuming it only turns up once, you could replace it w/ .png\0sketch |
| 09:54.14 | hellwolf | how to support flac file in youamp |
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| 12:05.57 | dneary | Hi all |
| 12:06.05 | dneary | I just made my first arm .deb :) |
| 12:06.11 | dneary | Very proud of myself |
| 12:06.16 | florian | hi dneary |
| 12:07.48 | timely | dneary: what's it do? |
| 12:07.53 | timely | only makes evil debs |
| 12:07.55 | timely | hrm |
| 12:08.27 | dneary | It's only maemopad |
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| 12:13.57 | murrayc | dneary: It's surprisingly simple when you know the incancations, isn't it. |
| 12:14.32 | timely | murrayc: dpkg-deb -b foopy |
| 12:14.39 | timely | simple, but useless |
| 12:14.59 | timely | the rest of the incantations are cp -r foopy barpy |
| 12:15.17 | timely | perl -pi -e 's/foopy/barpy/g' barpy/DEBIAN/* |
| 12:15.33 | timely | doesn't think the incantations have any value |
| 12:15.42 | murrayc | I think I use other incantations. |
| 12:15.48 | timely | i'm sure you do |
| 12:15.57 | lardman | wonders if dneary is looking for a new job... ;) |
| 12:15.58 | murrayc | And a chicken. |
| 12:16.04 | timely | very few people (and fewer still in their right mind) would use dpkg-deb |
| 12:16.46 | dneary | murrayc: Or when you're following the tutorial |
| 12:16.56 | dneary | "a maze of dpkg commands, all the same" |
| 12:17.18 | dneary | Plus, following the tutorial, there was a step missing (or maybe not?) |
| 12:17.26 | dneary | I did an apt-get source maemopad |
| 12:17.48 | murrayc | There are various tutorials of varying quality, each recommending various ways. I've been lucky to have some helpful experts to lead me. |
| 12:17.49 | timely | dneary: missing steps from a maemo.org item? |
| 12:17.52 | timely | impossible! |
| 12:18.25 | dneary | followed by a dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -b |
| 12:18.38 | murrayc | That's the moment of truth. |
| 12:18.49 | dneary | Which failed for lack of an intltool-update.in (which is generated by intltoolize) |
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| 12:19.18 | dneary | So I ran autogen.sh which went through fine, and reran the buildpkg, all was well |
| 12:19.35 | dneary | but I was lucky I knew how :) |
| 12:19.37 | murrayc | autogen.sh really shouldn't be necessary. |
| 12:20.17 | murrayc | The package might have a dist or clean problem. |
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| 12:31.19 | dneary | I'm still working things out in my head - and the training plan will end up being roughly the contents of the Wiley book proposal, if that ever comes to pass |
| 12:35.04 | timely | wiley? |
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| 12:47.45 | rjelari | where can i get the sample source code for task navigator plug-in ? |
| 12:48.07 | timely | isn't there a Gnu thinger? |
| 12:49.02 | johnx | rjelari, the code for the main menu should be open and so is personal menu |
| 12:49.23 | johnx | or are you referring to the "open program" list? |
| 12:49.53 | timely | johnx; the main menu is open source? |
| 12:50.11 | johnx | well, it's in debian's hildon-desktop... |
| 12:50.19 | johnx | let me verify, have a copy right here :) |
| 12:50.50 | timely | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/hello-world-app-2.1/ |
| 12:51.28 | timely | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/hello-world-app-2.1/hello-world-tn.h |
| 12:51.33 | rjelari | johnx, I admit myself i am new to maemo!. i just want to execute a sample program for navigator plug-in ! |
| 12:51.47 | timely | rjelari: that should be what you want |
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| 12:51.57 | timely | it seems to ship as part of some diablo thing |
| 12:52.00 | timely | probably the sdk |
| 12:52.14 | rjelari | timely, let me check with that :). |
| 12:52.26 | timely | if you look at /source/ it should have a *sources*list file |
| 12:52.38 | timely | which you could use to get the same packages |
| 12:53.35 | timely | frowns |
| 12:54.14 | timely | looks to see who actually includes that file .. |
| 12:54.33 | timely | tries not to choke |
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| 12:55.09 | rjelari | timely, is .tar.gz available for that? |
| 12:55.23 | rjelari | i mean which has all hello world source code. |
| 12:55.31 | timely | it came from a package |
| 12:55.44 | timely | copy the sources.list file and do apt-get source |
| 12:55.47 | timely | for hello-world |
| 12:56.21 | johnx | or: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1/free/h/hello-world-app/ |
| 12:56.34 | johnx | keywords: hellow world dsc site:maemo.org |
| 12:56.40 | timely | ify ou browse to the root, the file is http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/diablo.sources.list |
| 12:56.44 | johnx | s/hello/hellow of course |
| 12:56.58 | timely | johnx: cheater |
| 12:57.11 | timely | :) |
| 12:57.12 | johnx | just sharing the love |
| 12:57.21 | timely | johnx: anyway, mxr should be your friend :) |
| 12:57.45 | rjelari | timely, thank you very much. I got .tar.gz file! ;) |
| 12:57.48 | johnx | yeah, I should actually start abusing it more given the re-packaging efforts of mer :) |
| 12:58.04 | timely | needs to try to pull in whichever garage projects have updated in the past 6months |
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| 12:58.16 | ENTERANICK | [W2I=000:u:0:000:] |
| 12:58.27 | *** join/#maemo camel_liu (n=liuchao@220.232.117.46) |
| 12:58.46 | camel_liu | hi, all |
| 12:58.56 | timely | tries to remember how to update garage |
| 12:59.03 | johnx | hi camel_liu |
| 12:59.46 | camel_liu | hi, johnx |
| 13:00.08 | camel_liu | I wrote a SDL app, but I met something wrong |
| 13:00.22 | *** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@217.174.199.201) |
| 13:00.53 | camel_liu | When I minimize the SDL app, Task Navigator shows it as unknown |
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| 13:01.31 | Stskeeps | johnx: is application menu in h-d a plugin? |
| 13:02.02 | camel_liu | do you know why TN cannot display the app's title? johnx |
| 13:03.26 | camel_liu | gtk app is shown normal, but SDL app's title cannot be shown |
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| 13:05.54 | johnx | Stskeeps, ah, maybe it isn't? |
| 13:05.58 | johnx | I didn't really consider that |
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| 13:06.18 | johnx | well, in that case personal menu is a good example |
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| 13:33.46 | RST38h | moos evilly |
| 13:34.42 | johnx | m00f |
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| 13:37.34 | aquatix | maws a bit |
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| 13:39.45 | johnx | so when I bzr push really minor changes to launchpad and it takes multiple minutes, is that a bzr thing or a launchpad thing? |
| 13:44.18 | camel_liu | Does anyone know why Application Switcher shows SDL app as ''unknown" or "unnamed"? |
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| 13:55.13 | oli | anyone got n800 camera flipping problem too? |
| 13:56.03 | johnx | lots of people. I haven't used it recently enough to even remember if I have it |
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| 13:59.53 | johnx | Stskeeps, you're right. launchpad does not make me feel warm and fuzzy |
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| 14:13.28 | GAN800 | Quim's CCing me on bugs now. <_< |
| 14:13.52 | GAN800 | I don't CC since I track all changes anyway. :/ |
| 14:15.19 | X-Fade | GAN800: Heh ;) |
| 14:15.35 | X-Fade | Well, at least I seem to have fixed the wiki login problem today :D |
| 14:16.32 | GAN800 | Yeah, I see that |
| 14:16.56 | GAN800 | We may finally have a 100% functional wiki! :D |
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| 14:34.31 | `Mace | hi |
| 14:34.56 | johnx | hi `Mace |
| 14:35.00 | `Mace | sup johnx |
| 14:35.07 | johnx | not too much |
| 14:35.13 | `Mace | snow sucks |
| 14:35.15 | `Mace | :) |
| 14:35.25 | johnx | ah, for driving or shoveling reasons? |
| 14:35.25 | `Mace | i think i drove 15mph all the way home |
| 14:35.28 | `Mace | driving |
| 14:35.41 | johnx | I like it once or twice a year |
| 14:36.04 | johnx | it helps me bond with my otherwise slow and un-interesting vehicle :) |
| 14:36.22 | `Mace | haha |
| 14:36.39 | lardman | rather than you bonding your vehicle with others parked along the side of the road I take it?! ;) |
| 14:36.41 | `Mace | i gave sts the info for the box i made for mer |
| 14:36.45 | `Mace | he's on his own with it now ;) |
| 14:37.00 | johnx | sounds good |
| 14:37.17 | `Mace | although i'll need to set up apache on my webserver to redirect vhosts to the box |
| 14:37.31 | `Mace | shouldn't be that big of a deal to do tho |
| 14:37.50 | johnx | I'm brainstorming ideas for it, but right now we'll be in somewhat of a holding pattern until the fremantle sdk comes out |
| 14:38.32 | johnx | I suppose I should try and setup a qemu image I can upload to it that we could remote control |
| 14:38.41 | *** join/#maemo Stskeeps (n=chobits@84.238.11.16) |
| 14:39.35 | johnx | do you mind if we use it for CPU intensive things? or were you thinking more lightweight web-hosting? |
| 14:40.28 | `Mace | naw.. that's fine |
| 14:40.49 | `Mace | it SHOULDN'T max out the box.. i gave you guys 4000MHz in esx for it |
| 14:41.02 | `Mace | i just need enough on that box for my zimbra VM to run.. and it really doesn't need THAT much |
| 14:41.09 | johnx | lardman, so far this car has not attempted to mate with any moving or stationary objects. :) I do enjoy laughing at cars and drivers not equipped to travel when it snows :D |
| 14:41.49 | `Mace | maybe later i'll give you guys a dedicated box for it if it works out well |
| 14:42.10 | `Mace | too bad i can't get more bandwidth from comcast :) i tried when i ordered the business line but i guess 2mbit was the best they can do |
| 14:42.12 | johnx | Stskeeps, is there a queue on the builder right now? |
| 14:42.22 | `Mace | i guess anything past that and you need something a little more .... commercial |
| 14:43.52 | `Mace | well.. knock yourselves out with it. let me know if you have any problems with it |
| 14:44.39 | `Mace | if you guys want a xxx@rancorous.net zimbra acct let me know too.. i still have a lot of modding to do to it but it at least runs pretty well. the rest is cosmetic |
| 14:45.07 | `Mace | good luck with your project ;) ttyl |
| 14:45.12 | johnx | thanks again |
| 14:45.26 | `Mace | np.. just make sure it doesn't suck ;) |
| 14:45.27 | `Mace | haha |
| 14:45.28 | johnx | rubs his hands together at the thought of more clock cycles to use |
| 14:45.53 | *** join/#maemo bstock (n=bstock@68.78.185.226) |
| 14:46.08 | `Mace | i'll do whatever i can do to help you guys out |
| 14:46.12 | `Mace | ok... ttyl |
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| 14:50.16 | lardman | ~lart firefox for not allowing me to type ' |
| 14:50.16 | infobot | tries to shut firefox up for not allowing me to type ' |
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| 14:52.25 | johnx | it won't let you type an apostrophe? |
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| 15:13.56 | fiferboy | mikkov_: I see serialization in extras-devel! |
| 15:14.11 | fiferboy | Thank you so much for getting that to work, it is an immense help! |
| 15:14.34 | fiferboy | And for i386, too! Very, very nice. |
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| 15:22.59 | l7 | hey, links is an incredibly fast browser for maemo |
| 15:26.20 | l7 | links2 seems to render better though |
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| 15:27.08 | Stskeeps | johnx: no queue |
| 15:27.20 | johnx | sounds good, I'll work on changing that soon |
| 15:27.26 | Stskeeps | k |
| 15:27.54 | johnx | I'm investigating what's needed to get maemo-launcher and hildon-desktop started without started as part of a session instead of from init |
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| 15:31.03 | Stskeeps | k |
| 15:35.17 | GAN800 | I think I'm gonna liberate my sister's N800 to use for testing. |
| 15:35.22 | *** join/#maemo L0cmini9__ (n=L0cutus@host-84-222-89-176.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 15:35.46 | johnx | heh |
| 15:36.07 | johnx | I have liberated practically every device here capable of running linux to any extent |
| 15:37.04 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 15:37.27 | Stskeeps | tries to think of any device he hasn't had linux going on |
| 15:37.43 | GAN800 | It was in the principal's office for a while, and she got a new Sony phone. |
| 15:38.16 | johnx | as in she played on it in class, got it taken and got a shiny new phone for her trouble? |
| 15:38.28 | GAN800 | Hehe |
| 15:38.44 | GAN800 | Well, she bought the phone with her own money. |
| 15:39.38 | *** part/#maemo camel_liu (n=liuchao@220.232.117.46) |
| 15:39.38 | GAN800 | and they were kinda making an example. |
| 15:39.38 | johnx | well, that's much more admirable then |
| 15:39.38 | Stskeeps | if i was in primary school, they would definately take my n800. |
| 15:39.38 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 15:39.39 | johnx | just one step down from the guy with gameboy color guts hacked into a ti-84 |
| 15:40.11 | johnx | I cut my teeth on programming on a Ti-83+ in math/science classes |
| 15:41.07 | GAN800 | The TI graphing calculators are fun |
| 15:41.11 | Stskeeps | johnx: think i'll untaint hildon thumbnail, new tag came out so |
| 15:41.21 | GAN800 | <3 my TI-89ti |
| 15:41.35 | johnx | Stskeeps, seems good |
| 15:41.38 | Veggen | johnx: I think actually my programming interest was started by programmable HP-calculators. HP 10C and later 15C. |
| 15:41.47 | johnx | is there a reason we shouldn't use ubuntu's hildon-icons package? |
| 15:42.21 | Stskeeps | mm, are they really hildon icons? i took debian's last time |
| 15:42.31 | GAN800 | There are fun things afoot these days. . . . |
| 15:42.38 | johnx | well, it's debian's package :) |
| 15:43.08 | johnx | hildon-icons_2.1.debian-2 |
| 15:43.31 | Stskeeps | well, only worry is that ubuntu one is UM-tained, but yeah |
| 15:43.53 | Stskeeps | i guess ubuntu's should be fine |
| 15:44.21 | *** join/#maemo aantn (n=natan@bzq-79-183-100-73.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 15:44.44 | johnx | hmm, it depends gnome-icon-theme |
| 15:45.02 | johnx | but, yes, it is the pkg-maemo version |
| 15:45.32 | Stskeeps | that's fine |
| 15:45.36 | Stskeeps | gnome-icon-theme is needed anyway |
| 15:45.42 | Stskeeps | (it's hicolor) |
| 15:45.56 | johnx | well, that was painless then :) |
| 15:46.07 | johnx | now, to make maemo-launcher launch things... |
| 15:46.28 | Stskeeps | did you progress any with sapwood? |
| 15:46.37 | johnx | on zaurus? nah |
| 15:46.39 | Stskeeps | k |
| 15:46.43 | johnx | I'm putting it on hold though |
| 15:46.52 | Stskeeps | we'll figure it out eventually |
| 15:47.05 | johnx | it's sucked up too much time for a platform that might not ever be able to support fremantle level apps |
| 15:48.10 | johnx | I never did manage to get a noopt build of maemo gtk+ done though |
| 15:48.11 | Stskeeps | hehe, the interesting part is if we will be able to make a mmc version for 770 ;) |
| 15:48.16 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=Thomas_P@p57A15911.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:48.30 | Stskeeps | in-flash we might as well give up on straight away |
| 15:48.56 | johnx | maybe provide a rescue system in flash? |
| 15:48.59 | Stskeeps | possibly |
| 15:49.07 | Stskeeps | 128mb rescue menu, yay |
| 15:49.07 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 15:49.17 | johnx | it's proved wonderfully useful on my zaurus |
| 15:49.32 | johnx | but then again it has a keyboard :P |
| 15:49.36 | Stskeeps | hehe |
| 15:49.59 | lopz | hola |
| 15:50.03 | GAN800 | lol |
| 15:50.20 | GAN800 | 'rescue menu' can be OS2006. :P |
| 15:50.37 | johnx | hi lopz |
| 15:50.52 | lopz | heya johnx !! |
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| 16:01.02 | mikkov_ | fiferboy: serialization package for i386 is actually empty |
| 16:03.17 | fiferboy | Ah |
| 16:03.18 | fiferboy | Tricky |
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| 16:18.00 | GAN800 | Weird, I'm pretty sure my Thanks count just dropped by 16. . . . |
| 16:18.15 | johnx | I thought mine went down too, but I wasn't sure |
| 16:18.32 | Stskeeps | GAN800: you get subtracted for the thanks on the post that badmouthed you |
| 16:18.32 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 16:18.49 | qwerty12 | The force is strong in the people who want fremantle on N8x0 |
| 16:18.50 | *** join/#maemo lele (n=lele@2a01:2d8:42:42:21a:92ff:fe28:ff59) |
| 16:18.54 | Stskeeps | # Total Thanks: 96 |
| 16:18.54 | Stskeeps | # Thanked 162 Times in 78 Posts |
| 16:18.56 | Stskeeps | eh. |
| 16:18.59 | GAN800 | Stskeeps, hehe |
| 16:18.59 | Stskeeps | oh, nm |
| 16:19.23 | qwerty12 | couldn't personally give a shit about the bugs or fremantle |
| 16:19.44 | Stskeeps | wonders why the heck most people don't just recompile the debs in svn.. |
| 16:19.52 | johnx | qwerty12, happy enough just to hack on whatever's out there? |
| 16:19.53 | GAN800 | qwerty12 is gonna run Android on an N-gage |
| 16:19.59 | Stskeeps | they do actually publish the fixes |
| 16:20.05 | qwerty12 | johnx, yep :) |
| 16:20.17 | qwerty12 | GAN800, Well, seeing as I smashed the screen on mine... :P |
| 16:20.32 | GAN800 | headless |
| 16:20.37 | qwerty12 | hehe |
| 16:21.01 | qwerty12 | If fremantle is available for N800, great. If not, I'm not going to go into cardiac arrest. |
| 16:22.10 | johnx | well that sounds strangely reasonable |
| 16:23.01 | johnx | heh, actually if you said that it would probably make a lot of people feel better given how many packages you release :) |
| 16:23.58 | *** join/#maemo fab (n=bellet@bellet.info) |
| 16:24.24 | johnx | actually, if nokia does say "no official fremantle for n8x0" it will free up people to stop worrying about their osso-software-version... |
| 16:25.05 | johnx | Stskeeps, so, for the tained branches, they're safe to export, right? |
| 16:25.12 | qwerty12 | hehe, I just edit the dependencies of osso-software-version when I need to remove something :P |
| 16:25.47 | Stskeeps | johnx: yeah, export, but you loose revision log and ability to merge new things |
| 16:25.54 | Stskeeps | it's better to just re-merge them |
| 16:26.05 | Stskeeps | as in, re-branch then |
| 16:26.13 | Stskeeps | and apply the diff |
| 16:26.28 | Stskeeps | me finding out late about branching schemes kinda fucked up things :) |
| 16:26.31 | johnx | so branch from maemo tags, apply diff, commit, push? |
| 16:26.45 | johnx | I have no idea what those even mean :) |
| 16:28.00 | Stskeeps | johnx: .. or asking me to clean it up :P |
| 16:28.16 | Stskeeps | and yes, that'd be the order |
| 16:28.37 | johnx | alright |
| 16:29.05 | Stskeeps | which one do you have in mind? |
| 16:29.35 | johnx | I might as well try my noopt build of gtk again since my ARM machines are sitting idle, and if it works out, I'll push it |
| 16:29.49 | *** join/#maemo caio1982 (i=caio1982@CAcert-br/caio1982) |
| 16:30.04 | Stskeeps | k |
| 16:30.17 | Stskeeps | is setting up an armel builder on macer's machine |
| 16:30.24 | johnx | ah :) |
| 16:30.29 | johnx | sounds great |
| 16:30.51 | johnx | I figured that would be most logical use for 4000MHz :) |
| 16:32.05 | Stskeeps | hehe |
| 16:33.25 | Stskeeps | getting sb2 going sanely wouldn't be bad either |
| 16:34.32 | johnx | do you think it's possible? |
| 16:35.22 | suihkulokki | it should be possible |
| 16:36.00 | suihkulokki | as long as you don't try to use for things it's not meant for (system emulation, native compilation, ..) |
| 16:36.20 | Stskeeps | apt-get considered system emulation? :P |
| 16:36.34 | Stskeeps | is trying to get his head around some of the errors postinsts come up with, so |
| 16:36.42 | johnx | does building arbitrary debian packages seem reasonable at this point? |
| 16:36.51 | Stskeeps | (yes, i've /bin/true'd invoke-rc.d and start-stop-daemon) |
| 16:37.12 | Stskeeps | johnx: problems i usually run into is apt-get build-dep related |
| 16:37.27 | suihkulokki | Stskeeps: are you using apt-get with sb2 -e ? |
| 16:37.33 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 16:38.12 | suihkulokki | hmm |
| 16:38.21 | Stskeeps | lemme drag out my sb2 rootstrap, sec |
| 16:38.46 | Stskeeps | this is btw with a ubuntu jaunty armel underneath as rootstrap |
| 16:39.02 | Stskeeps | but had similar issue with hasty |
| 16:39.42 | suihkulokki | it should certainly be possible - or made possible :) |
| 16:40.18 | Stskeeps | yeah, which is why i'm looking for people with more sb2 knowledge than me :P |
| 16:41.36 | *** join/#maemo z4chh (n=zach@cpe-75-186-150-159.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 16:41.42 | z4chh | hi |
| 16:42.00 | suihkulokki | Stskeeps: do you have a writeup how you created the rootstrap? |
| 16:44.04 | Stskeeps | rootstrap's a buildd debootstrap variant of jaunty armel, PATH=$HOME/mr-sdk/sb2/bin:$PATH $HOME/mr-sdk/sb2/bin/sb2-init -c $HOME/mr-sdk/sb2/bin/qemu-arm -d -A armel m-r-sdk $HOME/mr-sdk/toolchain/arm-2008q3/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc |
| 16:44.09 | *** join/#maemo konttori_ (n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:44.31 | Stskeeps | i'm running as a user though, not root, should this be a problem? |
| 16:44.39 | Stskeeps | (i do sb2 -R -e apt-get ) |
| 16:44.52 | Stskeeps | rootstrap is unpacked as user too |
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| 16:48.28 | suihkulokki | running at user could cause problems, but for heavens name never try to use sb2 as root :=) |
| 16:48.39 | *** join/#maemo dougt (n=dougt@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
| 16:49.31 | Stskeeps | heh |
| 16:49.39 | Stskeeps | .. so i run it as the middle path, a vista user? :P |
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| 16:50.20 | johnx | I think bzr is choking on the + in gtk+ O_o |
| 16:50.39 | Stskeeps | bzr-svn or? |
| 16:50.42 | johnx | yeah |
| 16:50.58 | Stskeeps | remembered the branching schemes thing? |
| 16:51.11 | johnx | forgot it of course |
| 16:51.35 | Stskeeps | always good to do before you screw up 16 branches like i did |
| 16:51.36 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 16:52.05 | johnx | er, actually forgot to install bzr-svn |
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| 16:52.15 | johnx | I think this means I'm close to done for tonight :) |
| 16:52.31 | Stskeeps | hehe |
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| 17:04.52 | Stskeeps | ponders idly how much it would cost producer-wise to produce a tablet with omap3 |
| 17:05.40 | johnx | for Nokia? or for someone doing it on a small production run? |
| 17:06.08 | Stskeeps | i guess small production run |
| 17:06.20 | Stskeeps | just pondering the economics of tablets |
| 17:06.48 | johnx | well, the pandora goes for ~$330 and they're not making terribly much money on it |
| 17:07.10 | johnx | I guess the size of the production run makes all the difference though |
| 17:07.13 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 17:07.21 | johnx | and how much of the R&D is actually shared with other products |
| 17:09.33 | Stskeeps | and i guess we're speaking pure hw |
| 17:13.06 | Stskeeps | notes to himself he needs to move mer repo to somewhere sane |
| 17:13.51 | Stskeeps | bw management box seems to have taken a dislike to it |
| 17:14.38 | johnx | launchpad ppa maybe? |
| 17:14.59 | johnx | though as I expressed earlier launchpad does not fill me with a warm and fuzzy feeling |
| 17:16.05 | Stskeeps | ppa has own builders so it's complicated |
| 17:16.24 | johnx | ah, but, they're building for ARM now right? |
| 17:16.35 | Stskeeps | yeah, but the builders need to include our packages too, so :P |
| 17:16.41 | Stskeeps | gtk dependancy, for instance |
| 17:16.47 | johnx | ah |
| 17:17.01 | johnx | If you say it's complicated I'll take you at your word that I don't even want to know :) |
| 17:17.24 | Stskeeps | well, at my immediate thought it's not trivial, but i havent looked close enough at the ppas |
| 17:18.36 | johnx | I'm sure we could beg a little donated web space |
| 17:19.07 | Stskeeps | i should pull some old contacts |
| 17:19.12 | Stskeeps | being an ircd coder does have benefits |
| 17:19.33 | johnx | posting screenshots here did wonders for me with the "debian beta3" thing |
| 17:19.47 | johnx | but hosting a one-off image file is a little different than a repository I guess |
| 17:21.21 | Stskeeps | yeah.. or i can reduce number of deblet repos and use one of them for mirror for mer |
| 17:21.25 | *** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@a88-114-242-67.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:27.27 | johnx | so, hildon-desktop, even the one you built depending on maemo-launcher is an executable while it's a shared object on OS2008 |
| 17:27.54 | *** join/#maemo madhav (n=Administ@122.167.146.217) |
| 17:28.32 | johnx | I think that means it can't possibly work with maemo-launcher, but I'm not sure why it gets built that way if you haven't changed the package much |
| 17:28.54 | Stskeeps | that's awkward |
| 17:29.04 | Stskeeps | maybe they changed it for fremantle? |
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| 17:29.14 | qwerty12 | If built with maemo-launcher, you should have a <name of program>.launch. You get shared object because stuff built using maemo launcher has "-shared -fPIC" CFLAGS. |
| 17:29.42 | johnx | the -fPIC is unrelated to maemo-launcher I think |
| 17:29.45 | Stskeeps | johnx: maybe it has both .launch and non-launch? |
| 17:29.51 | Stskeeps | fPIC is needed for shared objects :P |
| 17:30.27 | johnx | ok, I'll make sure it's using that |
| 17:30.49 | qwerty12 | johnx, if your program is using pkg-config, use pkg-config --cflags maemo-launcher-app |
| 17:31.04 | johnx | but the .launch version appears because of something like this "if maemo-launcher ; the mv hildon-desktop hildon-desktop.launch" |
| 17:31.08 | *** join/#maemo lardman (n=vircuser@78.145.159.111) |
| 17:31.14 | johnx | I am already :/ |
| 17:31.18 | johnx | that's the weird part |
| 17:31.23 | johnx | this is nokia's package |
| 17:31.33 | johnx | I'll do a vanilla checkout and build just for fun |
| 17:31.50 | qwerty12 | If it really is using maemo launcher, "maemo-invoker <name of program>.launch" should work |
| 17:32.17 | johnx | right, but for that to work it has to be a shared object and somehow my debian/rules looks like it should do the right thing, but isn't obviously |
| 17:32.26 | johnx | since it makes an executable instead of so |
| 17:32.40 | qwerty12 | johnx, mind pastebinning the rules? |
| 17:33.02 | johnx | one sec, I'm going to try a vanilla checkout from tags |
| 17:33.06 | qwerty12 | k |
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| 17:41.34 | ShadowJK | is building it as shared .so some trick to increase amount of shared memory pages? |
| 17:42.06 | lardman | yes |
| 17:42.14 | lardman | and to ensure that most stuff is preloaded too |
| 17:42.19 | lardman | I think |
| 17:43.29 | suihkulokki | and IIRC to reduce the time used parsing themes/gtkrc/icon themes/etc |
| 17:44.05 | qwerty12 | https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/maemo-launcher/README explains it well |
| 17:44.18 | Proteous | no one wants to RTFM |
| 17:44.29 | qwerty12 | ORLY |
| 17:44.35 | Proteous | YARLY |
| 17:44.42 | qwerty12 | Damn |
| 17:44.47 | Proteous | heh |
| 17:45.29 | lardman | am off to a meeting, cu all later/tomorrow |
| 17:45.59 | Proteous | lardman the whole meeting |
| 17:47.29 | johnx | ok, sanity check: Nokia's debian/rules fails to build it as a shared object as well |
| 17:47.54 | johnx | so qwerty12, if you're interested: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/tags/hildon-desktop/2.0.19-1/debian/rules |
| 17:48.04 | johnx | better than pastebin |
| 17:48.06 | qwerty12 | hehe |
| 17:49.11 | qwerty12 | Hrm, I've got builds of the version that is shipped with diablo, let me check if that is the same version and if so, is it an shared object |
| 17:49.48 | qwerty12 | Nope, 2.0.18 comes with diablo. Let me build 2.0.19 in sbox for shits and giggles |
| 17:50.34 | johnx | I wonder if some magic intersection between CFLAGS containing -fPIC if $DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=thumb lets this work for Nokia for ARM, but not for me on x86 |
| 17:51.14 | johnx | but pkg-config --libs maemo-launcher-app *is* returning -shared -fPIC -export-dynamic |
| 17:51.24 | johnx | so that means I have no more ideas for tonight |
| 17:51.29 | Stskeeps | binaries can be shared objects too though |
| 17:51.33 | Stskeeps | what does 'file' say? |
| 17:51.44 | johnx | executable |
| 17:51.44 | Stskeeps | er, .. ok, -shared is there too |
| 17:51.52 | johnx | on diablo it says shared object |
| 17:51.56 | Stskeeps | hm :P |
| 17:52.00 | johnx | file is what I tested with first :) |
| 17:52.09 | Stskeeps | maybe they did it with a prelinker or something like that on diablo? |
| 17:52.48 | johnx | and just failed to notice that their released version isn't actually workable? |
| 17:53.14 | johnx | they did have -Werror in their turned on preventing it from even compiling. I guess it works for them on whatever compiler they use though |
| 17:53.18 | johnx | anyways, really off to sleep |
| 17:53.21 | Stskeeps | nini |
| 17:53.31 | Stskeeps | we're on gcc3, they're on 4 :P |
| 17:53.40 | Stskeeps | er |
| 17:53.41 | Stskeeps | reverse. |
| 17:53.58 | johnx | maybe you should get some sleep too :P :D |
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| 17:54.47 | Stskeeps | it's 7pm, i'll get there |
| 17:54.48 | Stskeeps | :P |
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| 18:06.01 | qwerty12 | johnx, built 2.0.19-1 and "file ~/my_projects/hd/2.0.19-1/debian/build/usr/bin/hildon-desktop.launch : /home/faheem/my_projects/hd/2.0.19-1/debian/build/usr/bin/hildon-desktop.launch: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), not stripped" |
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| 18:06.39 | johnx | qwerty12, would you mind trying an x86 build? |
| 18:06.46 | qwerty12 | johnx, sure |
| 18:07.09 | qwerty12 | (2nd time I've used the X86 target :P) |
| 18:07.32 | johnx | sorry to mess up your statistics :P |
| 18:07.39 | qwerty12 | :P |
| 18:08.02 | qwerty12 | searches for a nodocs rule |
| 18:09.02 | qwerty12 | bollocks, I'm still using that newer cp I compiled for arm. a few seconds while I revert it |
| 18:10.19 | *** join/#maemo cars__ (n=Cars____@24-241-236-207.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 18:13.12 | qwerty12 | johnx, "/home/faheem/my_projects/hd/2.0.19-1/debian/build/usr/bin/hildon-desktop.launch: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), not stripped" |
| 18:13.53 | johnx | well, that's quite interesting then |
| 18:14.18 | johnx | thanks for confirming that. let's me narrow down where to look |
| 18:14.33 | johnx | anyways, really off to sleep now :) thanks again :D |
| 18:14.40 | qwerty12 | heh, night johnx |
| 18:16.24 | *** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@ANantes-252-1-94-229.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:17.46 | cars__ | This sounds silly, but my n810 sometimes hangs for a long period of time (the UI is unresponsive except for the power button menu) - is there any way to access a virtual console to kill the offending processes, or add such functionality to the power button menu? :) |
| 18:18.48 | Stskeeps | powerlaunch might help out ther |
| 18:18.49 | Stskeeps | e |
| 18:19.25 | z4chh | cars__, i get that to, i sometimes reboot if it is bad enough |
| 18:19.38 | qwerty12 | cars__, you can enable the power button menu to be able to start up an xterm: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15223 but as to getting an actual virtual console,the process is long and you need an xterm to switch anyway (chvt) |
| 18:22.17 | cars__ | qwerty12, does the power button menu run at a higher priority than normal apps? If so, would the launched xterm also run at the higher priority? |
| 18:23.41 | qwerty12 | cars__, I think it does (at least mce is running at one afaik) but I don't know if the xterm will be launched at an higher priority. If you are around a computer, ssh may be worth a bet. |
| 18:26.13 | Ro9u3oR | can you test code on the n800 |
| 18:26.46 | lcuk | Ro9u3oR, not only can you test things on the n800, but you can run them live as well ;) |
| 18:27.17 | RST38h | Nokia teases major new product launching tomorrow |
| 18:27.21 | RST38h | Any guesses? |
| 18:27.53 | Ro9u3oR | lcuk can i pm you |
| 18:28.29 | lcuk | no |
| 18:29.05 | lcuk | RST38h, dunno, but is ted stevens involved? |
| 18:29.05 | GAN800 | RST38h, surely not Maemo-relaated if it's getting an advertising push. ;) |
| 18:29.20 | *** join/#maemo simon__ (n=simon@vie-nas-ge-0-2.onenet.at) |
| 18:29.54 | lcuk | hey GAN800 i heard about my n810 through advertising |
| 18:30.36 | GAN800 | The N810 launch was something like 'OK, here it is' |
| 18:31.12 | lcuk | isnt that like eveyrones advertising |
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| 18:31.24 | Stskeeps | RST38h: fremantle alpha sdk better be a major new product launching.. :P |
| 18:31.24 | lcuk | apart from recent microsoft adverts (were they for shoes?) |
| 18:32.13 | GAN800 | lcuk, Maemo doesn't get advertising |
| 18:32.21 | qwerty12 | lcuk, oh those adverts make me laugh. in my school, pc = plastic cock. |
| 18:33.13 | lcuk | your school sounds like its in need of government "special school" funding :P |
| 18:33.27 | qwerty12 | lol :P |
| 18:34.55 | qwerty12 | Damn, I just killed the conversation. I'm sorry. Yes, Maemo doesn't get advertising. |
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| 18:35.33 | Stskeeps | word-by-mouth advertisement seems to work quite well |
| 18:35.35 | RST38h | GAN: Yea |
| 18:35.55 | RST38h | most likely a touch version of N95 |
| 18:36.29 | Ro9u3oR | lcuk what program on the N800 is used to write apps |
| 18:37.47 | lcuk | what kind of apps? |
| 18:38.44 | Ro9u3oR | developement app |
| 18:39.08 | GAN800 | khertan.net |
| 18:39.22 | lcuk | so you want to write an app which creates apps? but you want to know what to write the app creator app in? |
| 18:40.01 | Ro9u3oR | i just wanted to know the name of the program on the n800 that allows you to write apps |
| 18:40.14 | lcuk | gcc |
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| 18:40.29 | Ro9u3oR | gcc? |
| 18:40.43 | lcuk | yes |
| 18:40.44 | RST38h | foot-in-the-mouth advertising... |
| 18:40.53 | lcuk | that is the app which converts your source codei nto object code |
| 18:41.18 | lcuk | source code is written in a language that gcc can understand and it produces a file which a computer can understand |
| 18:42.00 | sp3000 | ...producing effects which the developer does not understand, thus completing the circle |
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| 18:42.57 | Ro9u3oR | is gcc already on the n800 or do i need to download it from somewhere other |
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| 18:49.21 | qwerty12 | lcuk, transparent liqbase: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/20081129_0420(1).JPG (awful pic quality :P) |
| 18:49.58 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:50.01 | lcuk | now THATS interesting |
| 18:50.34 | lcuk | qwerty12_N800, just arbitrary overall transparent or keyed? |
| 18:51.38 | qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, no idea :/ |
| 18:52.01 | lcuk | you are the one with it |
| 18:52.53 | lcuk | curious how the palette looks like its behind the other icons |
| 18:53.25 | qwerty12_N800 | yer but i don't know any artistic vocabulary :p (with handwriting as awful as mine, you tend not to be as interested in drawing) |
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| 18:53.47 | lcuk | lol |
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| 19:20.08 | t_s_o | heh, i found my workaround for small file dialogs. GPE filemanager and dbus-switchboard ;) |
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| 19:34.30 | Mousey | i know i asked this yesterday, but |
| 19:34.45 | Mousey | anyone know where i can get something to rotate my wallpapers every hour? |
| 19:35.02 | Mousey | i'd be happy to script it if there was like xbg or something out there |
| 19:35.07 | Mousey | or feh or something |
| 19:35.09 | GAN800 | lol, rotate. . . . |
| 19:35.16 | Mousey | not xrandr |
| 19:35.20 | Mousey | just cycle thru |
| 19:35.22 | GAN800 | I though you meant degrees. :/ |
| 19:35.31 | Mousey | hence my clarification =P |
| 19:35.37 | GAN800 | There's no interface for it. |
| 19:35.46 | Mousey | I CRY TEARS OF SADNESS! |
| 19:35.56 | GAN800 | There's a bug if you want to vote for it. |
| 19:36.04 | Mousey | url? |
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| 19:36.23 | GAN800 | 'programmatically change background' or something. |
| 19:36.28 | Stskeeps | isn't it just hacking up backgrnd-manager? |
| 19:36.55 | GAN800 | h-d |
| 19:37.13 | Stskeeps | b-m is part of h-d |
| 19:37.13 | Stskeeps | :P |
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| 19:45.24 | qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, I knew I loved the camera feature of liqbase :) : http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/20081129_0506.JPG |
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| 19:45.27 | t_s_o | the focus stinks tho... |
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| 19:47.03 | anddamEshva | hello |
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| 19:54.12 | Meiz_n810 | k |
| 19:54.41 | Stskeeps | qwerty12_N801: what the devil is "usbflasher" mentioned in initfs? |
| 19:56.07 | qwerty12_N801 | Stskeeps, not sure. it does use usb gadgets though.. |
| 19:56.23 | Stskeeps | mm |
| 19:57.19 | Stskeeps | maybe a linux-mode flasher |
| 19:57.37 | *** join/#maemo hvelarde|stealth (n=chatzill@201.151.237.154) |
| 19:57.41 | Stskeeps | wonders if there's such a thing like flashing for netbooks.. |
| 19:57.43 | *** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@p5B2027E1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:59.07 | qwerty12_N801 | "Nokia internet tablet (userspace updater), Support only mmc image flashing" |
| 19:59.45 | Stskeeps | uh. |
| 19:59.58 | Stskeeps | that's interesting |
| 19:59.59 | *** join/#maemo aantn (n=natan@bzq-79-183-100-73.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 20:00.48 | Stskeeps | take image from mmc block device and flash it maybe? |
| 20:01.46 | qwerty12_N801 | could be, i know dell's pocket pc's can do that |
| 20:07.13 | Stskeeps | hm, maybe that webcast tomorrow may be interesting anyway |
| 20:07.55 | Stskeeps | "Be the first to find out the latest from Nseries in 2009 ยป" |
| 20:08.02 | *** join/#maemo mikkov_ (n=mtvartia@vipunen.hut.fi) |
| 20:08.16 | Stskeeps | and tag line of "Desktop. Laptop. Pocket" |
| 20:08.23 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (n=andre@g224237105.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:09.19 | *** join/#maemo myosound (n=myosound@static-71-127-149-42.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:09.58 | RST38h | hmmm |
| 20:10.12 | RST38h | My guess is, it wil be an N-series unified with 5800 in hw design |
| 20:10.24 | Stskeeps | we'll see |
| 20:10.33 | RST38h | 5800 has a tv out |
| 20:10.38 | Stskeeps | is just excited about fremantle sdk :P |
| 20:10.48 | Stskeeps | Desktop. Laptop. Pocket doesn't implicate a phone, though |
| 20:11.07 | RST38h | Nokia is a phone company, whatever they make will look like a phone |
| 20:11.37 | Stskeeps | didn't they make tires too or how was it, back then? :P |
| 20:12.07 | *** join/#maemo jpuderer (n=jpuderer@128.224.252.2) |
| 20:12.33 | RST38h | NokiaN |
| 20:13.02 | derf | So... an NIT that looks like a tire? |
| 20:13.25 | lcuk | qwerty12_N801, how fast is the refresh on that, is it normal? |
| 20:13.49 | qwerty12_N801 | lcuk, for the camera one? |
| 20:13.53 | lcuk | and i agree with t_s_o, its doubly bad focusing - from the nokia and the other one |
| 20:13.55 | lcuk | yeah |
| 20:14.24 | qwerty12_N801 | it's actually pretty much normal speed |
| 20:14.26 | lcuk | cos being able to display a lower resolution completely dynamic background like that might come in handy |
| 20:14.30 | Stskeeps | http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/12/01/nokia.tablet.tip.at.ubs/ <- 10 inch in my pocket |
| 20:14.46 | Stskeeps | heh |
| 20:14.56 | RST38h | imagines collective hard-on at this channel if the mysterious N-series device does end up to be a tablet |
| 20:15.08 | Stskeeps | i'd go drinking, probably |
| 20:15.21 | lcuk | what if its not linux though |
| 20:15.47 | RST38h | not linux one is already out and known as 5800 |
| 20:15.50 | Stskeeps | best campaign of misinformation and wasted work by nokia contractors then and marketing |
| 20:17.12 | lcuk | qwerty12_N801, what are you actually using for that overlay stuff? |
| 20:17.17 | *** join/#maemo Pio (n=sean@207.181.14.102) |
| 20:17.18 | lcuk | and wheres the info on this new thing |
| 20:17.51 | *** join/#maemo woglinde (i=woglinde@e178103051.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:19.09 | qwerty12_N801 | lcuk, a sec |
| 20:19.34 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at) |
| 20:23.10 | Stskeeps | heh, RX-11: http://www.nokiaphoneblog.com/?p=115 |
| 20:23.41 | Stskeeps | ponders if FCC has anything on the RX-51 |
| 20:24.10 | woglinde | hi |
| 20:28.49 | Meiz_n810 | hi |
| 20:29.59 | Mousey | hi |
| 20:32.45 | *** join/#maemo chenca (n=chenca@200.184.118.130) |
| 20:37.20 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:38.47 | *** join/#maemo xorAxAx_ (n=xorAxax@moinmoin/coreteam/alexander) |
| 20:41.29 | *** join/#maemo errordeveloper (n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:42.04 | qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, sorry. liqbase won't do it for me anymore :'(. you may have more success over ssh (I was using sleep & osso-xterm). install http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/composite/libxcomposite1_0.4.0-3_armel.deb , http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/composite/xcompmgr_1.1.1-0.zuh2_armel.deb , http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/composite/transset-df_6_armel.deb and set processor to performance, run xcompmgr from menu (it's a toggle so running it again wil |
| 20:42.05 | qwerty12_N800 | l stop xcompmgr (thanks to movial who i stole the script for the bora version from)) and with liqbase running, do a su - user and run transset-df -a over ssh |
| 20:42.27 | qwerty12_N800 | fuck. longer than i was expecting. |
| 20:47.01 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:47.26 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@cpc1-oldh7-0-0-cust232.manc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:49.47 | qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, did you get that last message by any chance? :-) |
| 20:50.01 | lcuk | nope, i was busy blowing up my system |
| 20:51.21 | *** join/#maemo zap (n=zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net) |
| 20:52.17 | qwerty12_N800 | damn. install ). install http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/composite/libxcomposite1_0.4.0-3_armel.deb , http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/composite/xcompmgr_1.1.1-0.zuh2_armel.deb , http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/composite/transset-df_6_armel.deb. run xcompmgr & then liqbase and minimise liqbase. open an xterm and run "sleep 10 ; transset-df -a" and switch back to liqbase and wait ~8 secs |
| 20:53.23 | lcuk | :D you are nothing if not complete, i only asked you what it was :D |
| 20:54.19 | qwerty12_N800 | oh, looks like i misinterpreted " what are you using" :D |
| 20:54.48 | lcuk | nm, better to be complete |
| 20:54.56 | lcuk | :D ty for info |
| 20:55.01 | lcuk | im gonna have a play |
| 20:55.07 | qwerty12_N800 | :) |
| 20:55.40 | lcuk | firefox is still bein a cow on practically every page. i should never have updated it |
| 20:56.25 | qwerty12_N800 | running transset-df -a over ssh (after doing "su - user" ) may be easier if you can ssh in and liqbase is still on the screen |
| 20:56.44 | lcuk | yeah was thinking about that |
| 20:56.51 | Meiz_n810 | qwerty12_N800: this is so great, i really like it a lot |
| 20:56.53 | lcuk | ive got mandelbrot set in internal build ;) |
| 20:57.36 | qwerty12_N800 | Meiz_n810, yeah, it's good fun :D. seen the pic where i made the camera the background? :) |
| 20:57.51 | Meiz_n810 | no |
| 20:58.27 | Meiz_n810 | transparent windows are good looking and useful |
| 20:58.50 | qwerty12_N800 | Meiz_n810, http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/20081129_0506.JPG (camera phone alert) |
| 20:59.04 | Meiz_n810 | thanks |
| 20:59.21 | *** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@147.17.168.202-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 20:59.23 | Meiz_n810 | transparent = i can see trough irc-window what is happening on messenger etc... |
| 21:00.01 | Meiz_n810 | not bad! |
| 21:00.06 | Meiz_n810 | that pic |
| 21:04.02 | qwerty12_N800 | :) |
| 21:08.10 | *** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@cs181192153.pp.htv.fi) |
| 21:16.35 | ShadowJK | What time is the webcast? |
| 21:18.28 | Stskeeps | 9 CET or something |
| 21:20.07 | ShadowJK | gnyaah, what geeks can get up at that hour |
| 21:20.57 | BULLE | ShadowJK: a true geek will of course just record the webcast, and watch it 20:00 CET while having breakfast with a pizza and coca cola |
| 21:21.40 | ShadowJK | oh, is there an url to it? |
| 21:21.59 | ShadowJK | like, a straight url to the media stream would be awesome, then you could record it effortlessly |
| 21:24.25 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@cpc1-oldh7-0-0-cust232.manc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:25.29 | lcuk | curses at javascript |
| 21:25.47 | woglinde | he you can write 3d engines with javascript |
| 21:26.13 | lcuk | yeah it can also make internet access slow |
| 21:26.46 | lcuk | this page http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap081129.html - clicking the picture was taking much longer to show than i expected |
| 21:27.15 | lcuk | as in, itsj ust a picture - firefox 3 takes almost 2 seconds to show it (even from in cache) |
| 21:27.40 | lcuk | hates slowdowns @/ |
| 21:27.55 | ds3 | wheeeeeee back to chinook and now the tablet is useful again |
| 21:28.04 | lcuk | heh ds3, what was wrong |
| 21:28.08 | woglinde | ds3 hm? |
| 21:28.22 | woglinde | mine is useful with diablo too |
| 21:28.51 | ds3 | lcuk: let see... bluetooth keyboard didn't work for me; static address handling is broken n diablo... modest made osso-mail look like perfection.... |
| 21:29.20 | ds3 | woglinde: we are apparently doing very different things |
| 21:30.04 | ds3 | oh and mogg w/media player is more broken then in chinook |
| 21:30.06 | lcuk | ds3, reasonable enough |
| 21:30.40 | ds3 | lcuk: I gave it 1 full month of real usage before reflashing back this weekend |
| 21:30.42 | ShadowJK | has static IP address working in diablo |
| 21:31.17 | lcuk | actually, yeah i use static as well, never touched email and bt keyboard works (even when in my bag whilst giving a presentation) |
| 21:31.27 | ds3 | ShadowJK: the bug I ran into is the netmask handling... say I want to use 10.254.254.254/24 as my static IP... diablo sets that up as 10.254.254.254/8 |
| 21:31.38 | ShadowJK | hm |
| 21:31.48 | lcuk | has 10.0.0.x |
| 21:32.01 | lcuk | is only upto 5 :$ |
| 21:32.03 | ds3 | lcuk: apparently the bt keyboard works for some people only; there is a bugzilla entry for that bug |
| 21:32.03 | ShadowJK | I have 192.168.42.0/24 |
| 21:32.23 | ds3 | ShadowJK: you won'tsee that problem as the default, "natural" mask for 192.168.x.x is a /24 |
| 21:32.51 | *** join/#maemo rouex (n=roue@afterthought.ACS.Carleton.edu) |
| 21:32.54 | ShadowJK | I have a vague memory of some things suggesting /16 |
| 21:33.20 | ds3 | 172.16.x.x should default to /16 |
| 21:33.41 | ds3 | anyways...claws works so much better then modest or osso-mail |
| 21:34.06 | lcuk | can you install claws on diablo |
| 21:34.24 | lcuk | not that it matters of course |
| 21:34.36 | ds3 | think so |
| 21:34.38 | lcuk | would ignore most email programs |
| 21:34.43 | *** join/#maemo Raytray25 (n=raytray@unaffiliated/raytray) |
| 21:34.51 | *** part/#maemo Raytray25 (n=raytray@unaffiliated/raytray) |
| 21:35.00 | lcuk | unless of course i could unleash the power of outlook express! |
| 21:35.13 | ds3 | I use the tablet as a 95% laptop replacement so working email and being able to see stuff on the screen (OSK takes up too much room) is important |
| 21:35.34 | lcuk | i want my tablets to become information access points |
| 21:36.19 | lcuk | keeps picking up the wrong damned tablet |
| 21:36.41 | ds3 | and even if you do use an odd netmask, you won't see the problem unless you have another local network; they will fail to talk |
| 21:37.12 | lcuk | anyway, gotta reboot bbl |
| 21:37.17 | ds3 | wireless on 10.x.y.z/24 and wired on 10.a.b.c/24 will have problems if then netmask isn't right |
| 21:37.38 | qwerty12_N800 | lcuk = typical windows user :p |
| 21:46.39 | *** join/#maemo uiht (n=opera@schwarzenegger.paivola.fi) |
| 21:48.22 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (n=crashand@SecuraBit/listener/crashanddie) |
| 21:49.07 | *** join/#maemo ale_ (n=pasquale@host37-58-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:50.25 | *** join/#maemo ale_ (n=pasquale@host37-58-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:54.08 | derf | ds3: Does claws support large folders? |
| 21:54.44 | ds3 | AFAIK, yes |
| 21:55.00 | ds3 | it is an MH front end |
| 21:58.38 | derf | I don't have any experience with MH. |
| 21:59.39 | derf | Its FAQ suggests that it barely supports IMAP at all. |
| 21:59.59 | RST38h | Vietnamese hackers do it with iPhone: http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/12/vietnamunlock.JPG |
| 22:00.35 | derf | (of course, that entry was last updated in 1999) |
| 22:01.59 | *** part/#maemo Ro9u3oR (n=opera@199.30.0.49) |
| 22:02.01 | GAN800 | Claws' issue is that it's absolutely attrocious to use with a finger. |
| 22:02.14 | timeless | GAN800: see query:GeneralAntilles |
| 22:02.27 | derf | Well, right now the only client I can actually use is webmail. |
| 22:02.36 | ds3 | I donno about imap, I just use pop |
| 22:02.40 | derf | So, you know, that's not tough to beat in terms of finger-friendliness. |
| 22:02.47 | GAN800 | timeless I'm 250 miles away from my desktop with no easy VNC access at the moment. |
| 22:03.04 | ds3 | yes, Claws has cosmetic issues but so far it has been consistant |
| 22:03.27 | ds3 | modest seems to randomly notify about new mails and likes eatting some of it in the process |
| 22:03.35 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@a83-132-28-51.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 22:03.54 | timeless | ok |
| 22:04.24 | ds3 | in the 1 month of usage, it has eatten at least 3 messages |
| 22:04.46 | derf | ds3: That's one of the reasons I don't use POP. |
| 22:04.53 | ds3 | and fails to sound a tone or flash the blue LED 80% of the time |
| 22:05.07 | ds3 | derf: I have no problems elsewhere with POP |
| 22:05.48 | derf | I also collect mail from many places... so always wound up with "Leave mail on server" checked on whatever client I was using. |
| 22:06.01 | ds3 | same here |
| 22:06.13 | ds3 | that's how I found out I was loosing mail |
| 22:06.17 | ds3 | losing |
| 22:06.18 | derf | And, of course, lots of clients would occasionally get confused and insist on re-downloading 20,000 messages. |
| 22:06.45 | ds3 | heh... that's what the Treo mail client did |
| 22:06.47 | derf | At which point I figured I might as well just be using IMAP. |
| 22:20.29 | RST38h | this brings me to a question |
| 22:20.38 | RST38h | Is ANYONE at all using Modest regularly? |
| 22:21.10 | timeless | does it do something? |
| 22:21.11 | GAN800 | I do when I'm mobile |
| 22:21.24 | ds3 | I was til I got fed up with it |
| 22:21.47 | RST38h | GAN: Is it actually losing messages as ds3 says? |
| 22:23.08 | RST38h | can't say, with Modest mail check hanging hard several times a day |
| 22:23.33 | ds3 | oh yeah,that's another problem ;) |
| 22:24.00 | GAN800 | I haven't lost any that I've noticed. |
| 22:24.51 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@cpc1-oldh7-0-0-cust232.manc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:25.09 | RST38h | the hangups should get fixes with the next ssu, or so nokia people say |
| 22:29.01 | GAN800 | We're due |
| 22:29.16 | GAN800 | When was the last one? Week 40 |
| 22:31.28 | RST38h | this one will be the last |
| 22:31.56 | GAN800 | How do you know? |
| 22:32.07 | GAN800 | Magic crystal ball? |
| 22:32.16 | RST38h | No magic this time |
| 22:32.22 | RST38h | Someone from Nokia said that |
| 22:32.59 | RST38h | One more Diablo SSU and then it is Fremntle |
| 22:33.04 | GAN800 | Who and where? |
| 22:33.21 | RST38h | This I do not remember but will try looking up |
| 22:33.40 | RST38h | 's long term memory has got fully replaced with Google |
| 22:33.55 | GAN800 | I still need to find out who the hell integration@maemo.org is. . . . |
| 22:35.22 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@212.16.98.110) |
| 22:35.45 | ds3 | is Fremntle going to support the 800? |
| 22:35.50 | Stskeeps | we dunno |
| 22:35.50 | lcuk | GAN800, if its like the rest of maemo.org X-Fade will rolleyes at you :D |
| 22:36.09 | soap | it has been days since I signed up @ garage,maemo.org and my username / password still don't work on the rest of the site. |
| 22:36.12 | *** join/#maemo lardman (n=vircuser@78.145.159.111) |
| 22:36.39 | lcuk | karate chops the BLT out of lardmans hand |
| 22:37.00 | GAN800 | ds3, uknown, but a community backport will be much easier this time around. |
| 22:37.37 | lardman | lcuk: ah, no-fair! |
| 22:37.39 | lcuk | whens the n910 comin out anyway |
| 22:37.51 | lardman | week on thursday |
| 22:37.57 | Stskeeps | looks forward to rx-51 |
| 22:38.10 | lardman | Stskeeps: is that the code name? |
| 22:38.33 | Stskeeps | yeah, it's in various linux-omap patches and source on stage.* |
| 22:38.55 | lardman | cool, anything interesting from the patches, etc.? |
| 22:38.56 | Stskeeps | so i'm quite assuming so |
| 22:38.58 | Stskeeps | not really |
| 22:39.11 | lardman | likewise any curious browser idents been seen yet...? :) |
| 22:39.38 | ssvb | lardman: you might want to check this link - http://marc.info/?t=122787922200005&r=1&w=2 (16 bit multiplies should be much faster on C55x DSP) |
| 22:40.37 | lardman | ssvb: looking now |
| 22:41.07 | derf | soap: I had to wait, months, I think. You might want to try being less patient. |
| 22:41.16 | lcuk | ssvb, \o |
| 22:41.37 | soap | just can't file official bug reproduction recipes w/o one :( |
| 22:41.40 | ssvb | lcuk: hi |
| 22:41.43 | lcuk | broked liqbase |
| 22:41.52 | lardman | ssvb: why should that be quicker? fixed point mac? |
| 22:42.35 | lardman | can't remember what variable size the guts were using |
| 22:43.02 | *** join/#maemo datachaos (n=datachao@189.27.163.222.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 22:43.31 | ssvb | lardman: C55x DSP has only 16-bit multiplier, 32-bit multiplies are emulated using several 16-bit multiplies and additions unless I'm mistaken |
| 22:43.51 | lardman | ssvb: ah ok, I can't remember tbh |
| 22:44.14 | lardman | but iirc some of the guts were certainly longs if not long longs |
| 22:44.22 | ssvb | lardman: but that patch is probably not the final one, it's better to keep an eye on this thread |
| 22:44.33 | lardman | ssvb: I will do, thanks for the pointer :) |
| 22:44.48 | lardman | ssvb: what are you doing, free-time-wise these days? |
| 22:44.59 | lcuk | the loopunrolling will have had a large effect as well |
| 22:45.06 | lardman | ssvb: still thinking of freeing the 770? |
| 22:45.09 | ssvb | lardman: IIRC, it can do 16x16 multiplies, accumulating result in 40-bit accumulator |
| 22:45.19 | lardman | lcuk: yeah, I think the C55 compiler does that pretty well anyway |
| 22:45.48 | lcuk | heh, i prefer to give hints anyway |
| 22:46.00 | lcuk | hits stupid pooter |
| 22:46.27 | lardman | well improvements to sbc are always a good thing anyway :) |
| 22:46.51 | lardman | hmm, /me can't access webmail... |
| 22:47.22 | *** part/#maemo uiht (n=opera@schwarzenegger.paivola.fi) |
| 22:47.36 | *** join/#maemo uiht (n=opera@schwarzenegger.paivola.fi) |
| 22:47.47 | *** part/#maemo uiht (n=opera@schwarzenegger.paivola.fi) |
| 22:49.48 | ssvb | lardman: I'm doing different stuff, still can't get into the right mood and finally implement support for setting arbitrary resolutions for SDL :) |
| 22:55.17 | *** join/#maemo croppa (n=stuart@135.27.233.220.exetel.com.au) |
| 22:56.09 | ssvb | lardman: have been moving to another apartment during the last weeks, but finally it's over |
| 22:59.10 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N801 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:59.36 | lcuk | ssvb, sounds interesting |
| 22:59.49 | lcuk | i mean the sdl thing.. |
| 22:59.50 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (n=befr0d@190.69.220.64) |
| 23:00.12 | lcuk | but i have to vanish |
| 23:00.13 | lcuk | bbl |
| 23:02.04 | lardman | ssvb: yeah I've been busy recently, missing coding |
| 23:02.43 | lardman | ssvb: baddu's opengl-on-dsp looks interesting though, so I think I'll spend some time hacking on that |
| 23:02.52 | *** join/#maemo housetier (n=housetie@unaffiliated/housetier) |
| 23:03.18 | lardman | wants some new hardware to get excited about |
| 23:12.19 | *** join/#maemo MrApril (n=Walter@g135103.upc-g.chello.nl) |
| 23:12.36 | *** join/#maemo GuySoft (n=guysoft@217.132.84.234) |
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