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| 01:02.11 | zs | :) |
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| 01:06.17 | GeneralAntilles | Some people just don't get open source. . . . |
| 01:09.46 | disco_stu | GeneralAntilles: what happened ? |
| 01:11.43 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=242517 |
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| 01:17.49 | nelson | GeneralAntilles: why do you say that? In essence, every distro the marks software it includes as "Ready for mainstream use" |
| 01:18.39 | smackpotato | ive enjoyed going from the early 770 when almost nothing was available to now where there are a lot of programs available |
| 01:18.43 | nelson | Someone could easily set up a package feed which includes all the ITT software they feel is ready for prime time. |
| 01:19.12 | nelson | It would make TokyoDan happy, and the rest of us could get on with our lives without worry about what TokyoDan thinks. |
| 01:20.55 | GeneralAntilles | nelson, it's a historical thing from TokyoDan. |
| 01:21.19 | GeneralAntilles | nelson, he's posted at least 3 of the exact same thread. |
| 01:21.19 | nelson | you mean he's been making this complaint for a while? |
| 01:21.48 | nelson | Oh, I see. Well, then follow Nelson's Dictum: "There are no problems; only unmet business opportunities." |
| 01:21.56 | smackpotato | he must be an apple mole |
| 01:22.09 | GeneralAntilles | lol, smackpotato, nice call. :) |
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| 01:35.03 | GeneralAntilles | It's also hilarious that he's using reported bugs as a metric for tracking buginess. |
| 01:36.14 | jagernot | ok my synth is almost ready for prime time...its wrapped up nicely into a .deb so if u can play with it on ur tablet and comments welcome. |
| 01:36.41 | jagernot | http://www.poojyum.com/boxar_1.0-1_armel.deb |
| 01:36.53 | jagernot | a box guitar for n810 |
| 01:55.09 | smackpotato | awsum jagernot |
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| 01:55.40 | zakkm | Does chinook repositories / apps work in diablo ? |
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| 01:57.35 | jagernot | thanks smack |
| 02:00.48 | jagernot | my app is build on chinook zak |
| 02:04.11 | jagernot | hhow do i take screenshot of my app in maemo? |
| 02:05.41 | GeneralAntilles | x11vnc is an OK answer |
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| 07:13.22 | Pavlov | hrm, how did my scratchbox setup go from working to not |
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| 07:17.51 | Meiz_n810 | is there a better script to place ln -s /dev/fb0 /dev/fb than rc.local? |
| 07:18.16 | Pavlov | hrm |
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| 07:18.24 | Pavlov | did some recent ubuntu update screw up scratchbox? |
| 07:18.27 | Pavlov | (8.04?) |
| 07:20.48 | Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: we are looking into a udev conf |
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| 07:23.04 | Meiz_n810 | ok |
| 07:23.20 | Meiz_n810 | midori seems to take a lot space.. |
| 07:24.11 | Meiz_n810 | 23mb uncompressed |
| 07:24.38 | Stskeeps | editing the script or? |
| 07:25.30 | Meiz_n810 | midori takes 23 mb |
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| 07:32.06 | Meiz_n810 | StsN800: can i add ln -s to the beginning of /etc/init.d/udev? |
| 07:33.34 | StsN800 | no, sort out how /etc/udev works |
| 07:33.43 | Meiz_n810 | ok |
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| 07:40.11 | StsN800 | Meiz_n810, when you get bored look into how powerlaunch works (powerlaunch.garage.maemo.org), looking at their docs and scm on project page |
| 07:41.05 | Meiz_n810 | StsN800: I am at school so i AM bored =P |
| 07:41.33 | StsN800 | it will probably be next step we take (its basically a daemon configurable to react to everything on a tablet |
| 07:41.44 | Meiz_n810 | ok |
| 07:42.38 | StsN800 | and just be sure to pass lukio(?) with good grades so you can start uni eventually and make $$ |
| 07:42.42 | StsN800 | :P |
| 07:43.29 | Meiz_n810 | yep |
| 07:43.30 | Meiz_n810 | :) |
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| 08:31.19 | StsN800 | school sucks. |
| 08:32.02 | StsN800 | im sitting in a adhoc made group and noone prepared except me. and i need coffee |
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| 08:33.22 | Veggen | StsN800: I have news for you: It doesn't necessarily get much better after graduating and starting to work, either :) |
| 08:33.48 | Veggen | So that group is probably a very realistic preparation for work. |
| 08:43.21 | StsN800 | true, i should enjoy being able to shout at people while i can |
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| 08:50.14 | Meiz_n810 | what i should do with powerlaunch? |
| 08:50.59 | StsN800 | look at data/ in the source on project page and docs on site |
| 08:51.20 | StsN800 | and try to get an understanding of it |
| 08:52.48 | Meiz_n810 | system.conf seems to contain many dbus commands about power management... |
| 08:53.19 | Meiz_n810 | and also offline-mode etc.. |
| 08:54.16 | StsN800 | yeah, its a script language |
| 08:54.55 | StsN800 | it does very little on its own |
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| 08:55.39 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 08:55.46 | X-Fade | Hi.. |
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| 08:59.38 | bergie | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2008-November/001287.html |
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| 09:09.53 | prak | what would you recommend for viewing videos on n810? |
| 09:09.59 | prak | in terms of video players? |
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| 09:13.33 | mavhc | mplayer for anything not h264, built in media player for h264 |
| 09:13.58 | prak | what about wmv files? |
| 09:14.30 | mavhc | mplayer |
| 09:14.39 | prak | ic |
| 09:14.51 | prak | i have trouble fast forwarding with mplayer though |
| 09:15.14 | mavhc | using the dpad? |
| 09:15.53 | prak | the dpad on the left side of the keypad? |
| 09:16.11 | mavhc | yes |
| 09:16.30 | mavhc | left/right 15 seconds, up/down 1 min |
| 09:16.45 | prak | ic |
| 09:17.00 | prak | i wasn't aware that i can fast forward using up/down too |
| 09:17.18 | mavhc | also menu key brings up a 15 min option |
| 09:17.25 | mavhc | and you can make your own config file |
| 09:17.31 | prak | ok |
| 09:18.12 | prak | thanks for your help mavhc |
| 09:18.31 | mavhc | :-) |
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| 09:58.50 | StsN800 | waits for flash size count with h-i-m on top |
| 09:59.35 | johnx | tries to make h-i-m do actually do anything |
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| 09:59.52 | StsN800 | hehe, morning |
| 09:59.54 | lardman | h-i-m? |
| 10:00.03 | aquatix | wonders what h-i-m is too |
| 10:00.12 | lardman | not h-a-m by chance? |
| 10:00.13 | StsN800 | hildon input method |
| 10:00.17 | aquatix | oh |
| 10:00.17 | lardman | ah |
| 10:00.24 | lardman | another new acronym to learn ;) |
| 10:00.29 | aquatix | has a real life keyboard ;) |
| 10:00.44 | StsN800 | johnx, i gave some info to qole at some point on itt |
| 10:00.56 | johnx | ah, I remember that post |
| 10:01.00 | johnx | I'll look at that |
| 10:04.44 | StsN800 | professor: "that group of people were the ones obama won from bush" |
| 10:05.00 | StsN800 | classes++ |
| 10:05.24 | johnx | "...in a high stakes game of poker." |
| 10:06.23 | StsN800 | johnx, 123.8 mb jffs image |
| 10:07.15 | StsN800 | with him, himf and himpe and libconic |
| 10:07.21 | johnx | not too bad |
| 10:07.42 | johnx | I wonder about libconic though |
| 10:08.00 | StsN800 | libconic is a dbus wrapper |
| 10:08.21 | johnx | so we could attach the backend to network-manager? |
| 10:09.12 | StsN800 | aye |
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| 10:11.49 | StsN800 | johnx, installer updated |
| 10:12.11 | johnx | ah. maemo-launcher wants hildon-initscripts too |
| 10:12.23 | johnx | this might be the challenging part |
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| 10:28.41 | StsN800 | johnx, recompile without it and see if m-l starts up as a daemon or something |
| 10:29.24 | johnx | I think it might just want hundreds of env variables, but I'll see |
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| 10:36.37 | StsN800 | we should look into init script/dm in image to start hildon too |
| 10:37.21 | johnx | how about something that just runs X and X can start the default session |
| 10:37.36 | StsN800 | startx? |
| 10:37.43 | johnx | yeah |
| 10:37.57 | StsN800 | sure |
| 10:38.06 | johnx | thinking out loud-> maybe have hildon-desktop provide x-window-manager? |
| 10:38.23 | StsN800 | x-session-manager |
| 10:38.33 | StsN800 | or something |
| 10:38.38 | johnx | you're right, probably better |
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| 10:43.34 | StsN800 | i'll play with mce/systemui using powerlaunch probably |
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| 10:44.06 | StsN800 | (is mce a system or session daemon? |
| 10:44.46 | johnx | I would say system, it's in /sbin/mce |
| 10:44.54 | StsN800 | k |
| 10:47.07 | robtaylor | johnx: yeah, mce is on the system bus, com.nokia.mce |
| 10:47.35 | johnx | robtaylor, thanks :) |
| 10:47.44 | robtaylor | johnx: np |
| 10:52.17 | StsN800 | wonders what place mce/dsme will have once ohm is in place |
| 10:52.49 | StsN800 | for now i guess we take diablo structure for now |
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| 10:54.40 | johnx | I guess so. doesn't seem worth getting too in-depth in that area since ohm is right around the corner |
| 10:55.18 | StsN800 | k |
| 10:55.27 | johnx | as always: your call |
| 10:55.40 | StsN800 | we will see |
| 10:59.59 | johnx | at least the wrongness of session daemons starting from init.d is acknowledged :) |
| 11:08.17 | RST38h | Moo. |
| 11:08.55 | johnx | m00f |
| 11:09.25 | RST38h | http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/WJGENT4/EatMoreChicken.jpg |
| 11:09.52 | johnx | heh, saw those same cows in the first all your base video |
| 11:10.16 | RST38h | saw them on a roadside ad in MD first |
| 11:10.43 | RST38h | They had a huge cow puppet "painting" the message at the white ad canvas |
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| 11:28.39 | Meiz_n810 | does the powerlaunch support n810? |
| 11:29.00 | Meiz_n810 | the m-r one? |
| 11:31.20 | StsN800 | think we might strip it down for n810 |
| 11:31.23 | StsN800 | er |
| 11:31.26 | StsN800 | m-r |
| 11:32.59 | StsN800 | new powerlaunch in extras should be working for n810 |
| 11:33.29 | Meiz_n810 | does the one in mrrepo workxå |
| 11:33.33 | Meiz_n810 | *? |
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| 11:51.42 | johnx | sighs |
| 11:51.55 | johnx | hildon-input-method is crashing with an X error |
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| 12:16.49 | ccooke | Hmm. |
| 12:17.08 | ccooke | Seems I accidentally turned off the icd2 service while playing with the services control panel |
| 12:17.16 | ccooke | That was interesting :-) |
| 12:17.37 | ccooke | But not as interesting as accidentally touching the "running" button next to the X server entry |
| 12:18.46 | StsN800 | hehe |
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| 12:59.07 | Ramzeska | hello world |
| 12:59.10 | RST38h | shit, maemo.org is dead again =( |
| 12:59.31 | johnx | hi |
| 12:59.39 | RST38h | ~curse maemo.org, Midgard, and 770s it is running on |
| 12:59.40 | infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, maemo.org, Midgard, and 770s it is running on ! |
| 13:00.05 | baddu | hello, is there any way to use device file remotely ? nfs seems not be an option |
| 13:01.44 | RST38h | BTW, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/17/dziuba_netbooks_and_smartphones/ |
| 13:01.44 | johnx | not that I've heard of recently. what exactly are you trying to do? |
| 13:01.59 | RST38h | baddu: You can use scp over WiFi |
| 13:02.17 | RST38h | or bluetooth object exchange if you are close enough |
| 13:02.26 | baddu | the plan was to use tv-card of a linux pc with n800 |
| 13:02.43 | johnx | you should probably do this at a higher level than direct device access |
| 13:03.14 | GAN800 | RST38h, software upgrade. . . . |
| 13:03.14 | johnx | RST38h, looks like trolling rather than useful criticism :/ |
| 13:03.34 | GAN800 | and are the Chick-fil-A cows some kind of novelty? |
| 13:04.19 | baddu | johnx: do you know that there is a project or something for that? i suppose using ssh and player of the pc would be too heavy |
| 13:04.31 | johnx | baddu, maybe look at a mythtv client, or mediaserv |
| 13:05.08 | johnx | if you're already using mythtv (or something similar) things are lot simpler |
| 13:05.17 | baddu | i guess it would work nicely if nfs would have exported device files |
| 13:05.27 | johnx | probably not |
| 13:05.37 | baddu | ok, i believe you :) |
| 13:05.53 | GAN800 | lol, I love it when websites scroll a giant advertisement right into the middle of your window from somewhere offscreen |
| 13:05.56 | johnx | even if it worked the way you think it would, the latency would be pretty incredible |
| 13:06.15 | baddu | it doesn't support anwyay |
| 13:06.46 | Guysoft42 | hey, is there a way to start up a nokia n810 in mute? |
| 13:06.48 | baddu | i don't use anything yet, i checked that maemo myth but it was pretty immature |
| 13:07.20 | baddu | i compiled dvb support to mplayer .. probably i could start with that |
| 13:07.31 | GAN800 | Somebody should link Peter to the dozens of old tablet name threads. |
| 13:07.59 | johnx | well, if you install mythtv on the machine with the TV card and just use the web based UI to set which show to record you can just open the recorded file from the server |
| 13:08.38 | oilinki | baddu: you have an pc with dvb card and wish to see the show live? |
| 13:08.55 | *** join/#maemo etrunko (n=edulima@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:09.08 | baddu | yeah i at least dream to see the live broadcast instead of recorded |
| 13:09.54 | oilinki | would the vlc streaming option be any help? |
| 13:10.35 | baddu | i don't know much about that.. do you know if it wuold? :) |
| 13:11.18 | baddu | s/wuold/would/ |
| 13:11.44 | oilinki | well, I tried it with sopcast at some point... I got an picture, but n810 could not handle the feed very well. try it out, if it would suit for you. |
| 13:12.07 | baddu | i probably do that , thanks |
| 13:13.03 | oilinki | hopefully it would work for you. |
| 13:13.46 | Stskeeps | RST38h: there was an announcement out earlier |
| 13:14.06 | GAN800 | myhava.com is nice if you don't mind spending a little extra |
| 13:16.08 | *** join/#maemo mgedmin (n=mg@office.pov.lt) |
| 13:17.44 | RST38h | johnx: I wouldn't take it as trolling right away |
| 13:17.53 | RST38h | Sts,GAN: What are you talking about guys? |
| 13:18.00 | RST38h | Sts,GAN: Something happened? |
| 13:18.13 | GAN800 | Check maemo-community. :) |
| 13:18.18 | RST38h | If you mean maemo.org, it seems to be in the permanent upgrade mode lately =) |
| 13:18.43 | johnx | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2008-November/001287.html |
| 13:18.44 | johnx | I assume |
| 13:18.51 | RST38h | checking |
| 13:19.08 | RST38h | johnx: As to the article, the author does make a valid point |
| 13:19.21 | RST38h | johnx: Once it looks like a laptop, people expect it to work like a laptop |
| 13:19.35 | johnx | in an unnecessarily trollish tone to get people kvetching about it |
| 13:20.16 | RST38h | johnx: It comes from TheRegister - they always write this way |
| 13:20.31 | GAN800 | Welcome to tech journalism. ;) |
| 13:20.34 | johnx | which is why I rarely bother even reading them |
| 13:20.39 | RST38h | They are the original BOFHs, johnx =) |
| 13:20.40 | johnx | welcome to pissing off your readers :) |
| 13:20.55 | johnx | nah, the BOFH is the original BOFH. accept no substitute |
| 13:20.56 | RST38h | which is why I am only reading them :) |
| 13:21.29 | *** join/#maemo andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:21.40 | RST38h | better be offended every now and then than deal with soft-pedaling hacks |
| 13:22.00 | johnx | "better to offend with substance, than style" |
| 13:22.10 | johnx | to paraphrase |
| 13:22.42 | RST38h | They are a bunch of cynical snobbish brits, whaddayawant? After all, it is what makes them different from 99% other "tech journalists" |
| 13:22.58 | johnx | and as expected it has nothing new except the word "weaktop" |
| 13:23.17 | RST38h | true, this stuff has been known for quite a while now |
| 13:25.10 | johnx | but really, most people seem to spend most of their time in a browser and some in an office suite |
| 13:25.31 | *** join/#maemo lsobral (n=sobral@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:26.12 | RST38h | johnx: the problem is that most people seem to use their computers for other things as well, every now and then |
| 13:26.33 | *** join/#maemo ceyusa (n=ceyusa@cm216016.red83-165.mundo-r.com) |
| 13:26.36 | RST38h | THAT is what kills Linux on those "ne-tops" :) |
| 13:26.53 | johnx | well the linux distro on most of them is the weak point |
| 13:27.09 | johnx | shipping a really vanilla ubuntu would be a monumental step forward |
| 13:27.12 | RST38h | yes, they sell much better with XP :) |
| 13:27.48 | RST38h | MSI top honcho quoted return rates being 3 times higher for Linux running nettops (same make and model) |
| 13:28.30 | johnx | well there are more factors at work than linux vs windows |
| 13:28.37 | GAN800 | ^ |
| 13:29.00 | RST38h | johnx: Another factor is the CPU speed |
| 13:29.13 | GAN800 | The tablet form-factor stuff has the advantage of not being remotely laptop-like |
| 13:29.29 | RST38h | GAN: exactly. |
| 13:29.42 | GAN800 | people don't generally care if their cellphones have Office |
| 13:29.43 | RST38h | smae with smartphones |
| 13:29.51 | johnx | I can agree with that overall. People have problems dealing with small changes more than large changes |
| 13:30.12 | johnx | the problem is fundamental inflexibility in people's minds :) |
| 13:30.17 | RST38h | johnx: presenting people with something that looks familiar but is different freaks them out |
| 13:30.38 | GAN800 | I'd wonder if pushing a non-Windows-esque UI for Linux on netbooks would help. |
| 13:30.41 | *** join/#maemo errordeveloper (n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 13:30.45 | errordeveloper | hey .. |
| 13:30.54 | RST38h | GAN: So far it does not |
| 13:30.54 | errordeveloper | i'm trying to figure out a trick |
| 13:31.19 | errordeveloper | so the files put onto a memory card when connected via usb |
| 13:31.34 | GAN800 | RST38h, well, also one that doesn't suck. But I guess those don't materialize out of thin air. |
| 13:31.39 | errordeveloper | would appear to mamemo as they got uid=29999 |
| 13:32.03 | errordeveloper | not the id of the user who put the files from the linux box |
| 13:32.10 | johnx | RST38h, well so far netbook manufacturers have assumed that having some lone programmer put a weeks into customizing a linux distro rather than hiring someone who knows what the hell they're doing is a good idea |
| 13:32.16 | RST38h | GAN: Mimicking Windoze seems to be a better marketing move at the moment |
| 13:32.23 | errordeveloper | so i'd like to add something to fstab of the linux machine |
| 13:32.35 | RST38h | GAN: Both ASUS and MSI have non-Windoze Linux UIs |
| 13:32.55 | RST38h | johnx: That is normal given that theu are Chinese |
| 13:33.13 | johnx | RST38h, wow...very classy stereotyping |
| 13:33.18 | RST38h | johnx: It is much cheaper and corresponds to their "we can do it ourselves" mentality |
| 13:33.29 | RST38h | johnx: Oh, I know what I am talking about. |
| 13:33.56 | RST38h | johnx: But just wait and see - the next wave will either switch to XP or use a better desktop |
| 13:33.59 | johnx | anyways, asus actually is a bad example since they did a pretty good job with their linux version |
| 13:34.00 | GAN800 | johnx, little reactionary there? :P |
| 13:34.49 | johnx | errordeveloper, is this with the card mounted as vfat or ext2/3? |
| 13:35.03 | johnx | GAN800, I don't react well to sweeping statements like that |
| 13:35.44 | RST38h | johnx: Biases exist for a reason |
| 13:35.47 | johnx | anyways, hp is doing their own thing too |
| 13:36.07 | johnx | they do look to be doing a better job of it though. |
| 13:36.12 | RST38h | johnx: As long as you do not persist in your bias, it will help rather than harm |
| 13:36.20 | *** join/#maemo data|2 (n=datachao@c9154e81.virtua.com.br) |
| 13:36.32 | RST38h | HP is much more expensive though, almostlike a real computer |
| 13:37.20 | johnx | $380 or so with linux? |
| 13:37.55 | RST38h | Ah it is 380 now? |
| 13:37.59 | RST38h | Cool |
| 13:38.05 | johnx | not now, actually january |
| 13:38.13 | johnx | it appears they're taking time to get the linux stuff right |
| 13:38.44 | johnx | still, I tend to dislike the "thin, slick looking shell that launches normal software" approach |
| 13:38.46 | RST38h | wonders whether Nokia will kill Maemo off as part of the downsizing strategy =( |
| 13:39.08 | Veggen | I seem to remember the boss for Asus EEE-things saying that the return rate for Windows and Linux EEEs are in the same ballpart. |
| 13:39.12 | Veggen | eh, ballpark. |
| 13:39.14 | RST38h | johnx: People tried slick looking shells back in 80486 times, didn't work |
| 13:39.28 | johnx | they just keep trying them though |
| 13:39.42 | johnx | actually I wonder about the return rate on WinMo phones with touch-flo or similar |
| 13:40.13 | johnx | it's basically a hybrid between "actually improving things" and "bait and switch" |
| 13:40.44 | GAN800 | RST38h, considering that they're actively hiring new people and just opened a new Maemo Software location in California, I kind of doubt it. |
| 13:40.51 | RST38h | Veggen: Dunno about ASUS, here is MSI: http://gizmodo.com/5058953/linux-netbooks-are-returned-4x-more-than-win-xp-versions-says-msi |
| 13:41.12 | RST38h | GAN: All it takes is a single executive decision =( |
| 13:41.27 | johnx | the difference being that msi did a crap job on their linux distro and asus actually put work into it |
| 13:41.44 | RST38h | GAN: I kinda like Symbian but I would rather like to see Nokia switch to Maemo |
| 13:41.56 | *** join/#maemo danilocesar (n=danilo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:42.15 | RST38h | johnx: I have seen MSI in a local store - their menu isn't much worse or better than ASUS' |
| 13:42.42 | GAN800 | Maemo on cellphones make no sense to me. |
| 13:42.44 | *** join/#maemo birunko (n=birunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:42.46 | johnx | exactly, the thin shell looks ok, but apparently it has problems beneath it, whereas the eee is pretty consistent |
| 13:42.56 | RST38h | GAN: Why? |
| 13:43.05 | *** join/#maemo setanta (n=setanta@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:43.29 | GAN800 | It just isn't designed for making and receiving calls on a small screen. |
| 13:44.01 | GAN800 | Besides, I'd never accept this kind of reliability from my cellphone. ;) |
| 13:44.30 | RST38h | GAN: You are talking about UI rather than the system. I don't think porting S60 to Maemo will be THAT bad |
| 13:44.46 | johnx | maemo is the UI :) |
| 13:44.46 | RST38h | They already ported S90 UI *and* they managed to port S60 to Java (S40) |
| 13:44.51 | GAN800 | What is Maemo without the ui, though. |
| 13:44.52 | johnx | beneath it it's a hacked up debian 2005 |
| 13:45.11 | RST38h | Hey I thought everybody hated Maemo UI? =) |
| 13:45.19 | GAN800 | Hardly |
| 13:45.36 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:45.37 | RST38h | johnx: Better that than the multithreaded Symbian hell |
| 13:45.39 | GAN800 | it has its rough edges, but works well enough overall for what it is. |
| 13:45.41 | johnx | heh...it's the same people who think that a desktop UI on a handheld device is a good idea |
| 13:46.12 | GAN800 | shudders at the idea of shuffling windows around with a stylus |
| 13:46.34 | GAN800 | I'd like to see one of those people using their tablet |
| 13:46.47 | johnx | eh, they just hunch over it and peck away |
| 13:46.55 | GAN800 | it must be some sort of front to try to look cool or something. . . . |
| 13:47.05 | johnx | nah, they actually don't mind |
| 13:47.11 | RST38h | GAN: Look at the Road Tycoon clone for Maemo - it makes you shuffle little windows with a stylus |
| 13:47.15 | GAN800 | insanity |
| 13:47.17 | johnx | some people even drive frontwheel drive cars |
| 13:47.20 | Veggen | RST38h: ya, but I've seen ASUS-boss saying that they are similar between Windows and Linux. |
| 13:47.34 | GAN800 | RST38h, eh, games are a different story. |
| 13:47.44 | GAN800 | johnx, :((( |
| 13:47.48 | RST38h | Veggen: Good for them then, although I would like to hear a few more manufacturers on this |
| 13:48.10 | RST38h | johnx: With auto gearshift, no doubt? |
| 13:48.15 | johnx | GAN800, had to take a swing at you. :D my point being that some people can tolerate stuff that just drives others crazy |
| 13:48.28 | Veggen | RST38h: ..so my point was that probably a bad Linux-install made by people not knowing what they are doing is worse than Windows, but doing it properly, things are different. |
| 13:48.33 | GAN800 | I had my grand awakening just after I bought my Camry |
| 13:48.45 | GAN800 | But at least it's a 5-speed |
| 13:49.27 | Veggen | And you *will* have a lot of people that does not grasp the concept that "another OS" might not be "exactly as Windows" :) |
| 13:49.43 | johnx | right, and some of the people once handed a desktop UI on a handheld will wake up and say "this sucks, it isn't at all what I wanted." |
| 13:49.54 | johnx | and some will tolerate it for some reason the rest of us can't fathom |
| 13:50.18 | johnx | Veggen, the problem is thar marketing willfully contributes to that confusion |
| 13:50.28 | Veggen | johnx: mm, true. |
| 13:51.28 | GAN800 | tires of having to pay attention to Jaiku because of those two m-r assholes. . . . |
| 13:52.52 | johnx | GAN800, actually this is working pretty well |
| 13:53.00 | johnx | the jaiku setup I mean |
| 13:53.19 | johnx | it makes me a lot more willing to document when it's a really short form |
| 13:53.40 | GAN800 | demands IRC msgs custom-tailored to my experience-level. |
| 13:53.50 | johnx | just subscribe to it as RSS |
| 13:54.00 | johnx | i mean, you use a feed reader, right? |
| 13:54.04 | GAN800 | I don't do RSS. :p |
| 13:54.24 | johnx | do you want us to send up smoke signals? wave flags? |
| 13:54.28 | johnx | :D |
| 13:54.29 | GAN800 | I've tried many times, but they all just piss me off. |
| 13:54.47 | johnx | I'd think the Mac would have a really slick one |
| 13:54.56 | GAN800 | Imma setup an intercom in my living room |
| 13:55.16 | GAN800 | I suspect they are slick, but RSS totally doesn't work for me. |
| 13:55.37 | johnx | integrate with your mail reader maybe? |
| 13:55.42 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=Thomas_P@p57A14A94.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:55.48 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@212.13.37.17) |
| 13:55.49 | RST38h | GAN: Try Google reader |
| 13:55.55 | *** part/#maemo thopiekar (n=Thomas_P@p57A14A94.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:55.55 | GAN800 | *squawk*Uh, we're uploading the new hildon-desktop build now . . . over and out. |
| 13:56.01 | RST38h | GAN: Btw, its iPhone version works perfectly on tablets |
| 13:56.09 | GAN800 | johnx, tried that, too. |
| 13:57.04 | RST38h | imagines what will happen when Nokia finally disables page fitting option in MicroB... |
| 13:57.08 | johnx | GAN800, so wait a squawk and spoken message is preferable? O_o |
| 13:57.26 | GAN800 | Absolutely nothing because it sucks and nobody uses it? |
| 13:57.26 | johnx | RST38h, it will stop slowing down and dying as often? |
| 13:57.29 | RST38h | Google Reader and lots of other pages will suddenly look like shit |
| 13:57.32 | *** join/#maemo L0cmini9 (n=L0cutus@host-84-222-93-1.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 13:57.55 | RST38h | johnx: well, I don't think it will stop doing that (for other reasons) |
| 13:58.06 | johnx | ahaha |
| 13:58.13 | GAN800 | johnx, as long as I don't have to actively search them out. :P |
| 13:58.32 | RST38h | But there is a bunch of often used web sites (like the Reader) that will suddenly get ugly scrollbars |
| 13:58.46 | RST38h | Especially when zoomed |
| 13:58.49 | GAN800 | dies of cold. |
| 13:59.23 | RST38h | Maybe a "fit text for this site" option is required, I dunno |
| 14:00.37 | johnx | a little per site css is often a great fix |
| 14:00.39 | GeneralAntilles | Well, RST38h, the good news is that since MicroB is 100% open in Fremantle, you'll be able to implement it yourself (or coerce somebody else into implementing it). |
| 14:00.51 | *** join/#maemo ron1n (n=ron1n@208.253.111.18) |
| 14:01.48 | GeneralAntilles | Woo, Harmattan will support NTP and GPS-sync. |
| 14:02.05 | johnx | uhm...that's *how many years out*?! |
| 14:02.17 | GeneralAntilles | Depends if it's 5.1 or 6.0 |
| 14:02.43 | RST38h | Hehe |
| 14:02.59 | *** join/#maemo ab (n=ab@pdpc/supporter/professional/ab) |
| 14:03.06 | RST38h | GAN: I would still suggest leaving it in (maybe inaccessible from the top menu) |
| 14:03.24 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, in its current form, it just hurts users. |
| 14:03.43 | GeneralAntilles | Trust me, I've run a LOT of interference with them. :) |
| 14:03.54 | GeneralAntilles | Feck, it's 58°F in here. |
| 14:04.30 | solarion | GeneralAntilles: that's happy computers |
| 14:04.36 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu (n=Administ@190.216.32.31) |
| 14:04.59 | GeneralAntilles | CPU temp finally dipped under 60°C |
| 14:05.26 | johnx | is that on the G5? |
| 14:05.35 | solarion | it's good to have a big bath to sink your heat into |
| 14:05.35 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah |
| 14:05.42 | johnx | CPU temp is a pleasent 33C here |
| 14:05.49 | RST38h | PentiumIV at 2.4GHz will heat up this much |
| 14:05.52 | GeneralAntilles | It runs in the 70s usually |
| 14:05.59 | RST38h | especially if you do not cool it well |
| 14:06.02 | GeneralAntilles | Probably the hottest computer Apple has every manufactured. |
| 14:06.08 | solarion | wonders if the eee's do thermal info |
| 14:06.17 | johnx | solarion, acpi -t |
| 14:06.36 | solarion | ah |
| 14:06.44 | GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3862#c4 nice |
| 14:07.21 | solarion | johnx: thanks. I'm so used to the acpi not supporting things that I've since stopped poking around |
| 14:07.50 | johnx | solarion, it was just a guess, but most laptops seem to support it, even older ones |
| 14:08.00 | GeneralAntilles | andre__, Sean Luke's bugs are pre-template. ;) |
| 14:08.08 | solarion | johnx:sounds good |
| 14:08.21 | solarion | johnx: how long have they and linux gotten along in this respect? |
| 14:08.46 | solarion | perhaps it was my dell i8600 |
| 14:08.53 | andre__ | GeneralAntilles, +1 :-D |
| 14:09.05 | andre__ | well, probably you're right |
| 14:09.10 | *** join/#maemo blade_runner (n=arezende@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:09.14 | GeneralAntilles | His bugs are usually pretty useless anyway. |
| 14:09.28 | GeneralAntilles | Largely amounting to "x sucks" |
| 14:09.32 | andre__ | however, that specific one i didn't understand even after reading three times |
| 14:09.51 | andre__ | (if we refer to the same one - read too many bugs in the last hours) |
| 14:10.14 | johnx | solarion, well I haven't had a laptop until recently, but my toshiba from 2002 (I got it used) supported acpi -t since 2007 |
| 14:10.20 | GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1156 |
| 14:10.51 | GeneralAntilles | is tired of cleaning up incompetent people's lists https://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Why_the_closed_packages |
| 14:11.25 | andre__ | yepp, that one |
| 14:12.16 | andre__ | we should just disallow anonymous edits |
| 14:12.31 | GeneralAntilles | andre__, I agree. |
| 14:12.39 | GeneralAntilles | But fanoush and qgil don't seem to. |
| 14:12.40 | RST38h | And track and kill all the anonymouses |
| 14:12.59 | RST38h | Or at least kill one ritually and post the video onto wiki top page |
| 14:13.08 | andre__ | at least we'd know who exactly to blame for that posting :-P |
| 14:15.22 | GeneralAntilles | I wonder if mediawiki will allow you to require logins to edit talk pages. |
| 14:15.54 | *** join/#maemo greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 14:19.27 | *** join/#maemo krutt (n=mk@p5B04445A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:23.17 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@pluto.systemone.at) |
| 14:25.06 | *** join/#maemo MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:30.13 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@dsl-lhtbrasgw2-fe2cf800-231.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:30.58 | Stskeeps | "Woo, Harmattan will support NTP and GPS-sync. |
| 14:31.01 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles? |
| 14:31.48 | Meizirkki | I have now Qemu set up with m-r, can i (try to) compile something for m-r? |
| 14:32.46 | Stskeeps | you got it running with the n800 emulation? |
| 14:34.03 | Meizirkki | no, i just have the m-r installed... http://repository.handhelds.org/hasty-armv6el-vfp/installer-arm/images/versatilepb/README |
| 14:34.07 | Stskeeps | ah |
| 14:34.19 | Stskeeps | so m-r on a versatilepb ;) |
| 14:34.21 | *** join/#maemo jagernot (n=jag@82-43-144-169.cable.ubr02.nmal.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 14:34.28 | GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2750 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=472 Stskeeps |
| 14:34.35 | Meizirkki | is that enough? |
| 14:35.25 | Stskeeps | Meizirkki: you might have to get the n800 emulation running but that's more difficult, as versatilepb doesn't have that many colours in the display |
| 14:35.50 | Meizirkki | okay |
| 14:36.09 | Meizirkki | i will try to get the n8x0 emulation |
| 14:36.09 | Stskeeps | it's good enough for compiling |
| 14:36.11 | Stskeeps | i use the same |
| 14:36.18 | Meizirkki | okay |
| 14:36.30 | Meizirkki | then i just want to compile something :) |
| 14:36.42 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: and neat :P i guess they're working on harmattan plans now |
| 14:36.46 | *** join/#maemo netx (n=rlange@horus.darkempire.org) |
| 14:37.08 | Meizirkki | What should i try to compile first? |
| 14:38.33 | Stskeeps | advanced backlight |
| 14:38.47 | Stskeeps | remember to add the repos |
| 14:39.11 | johnx | continues to fight with hildon-input-method |
| 14:39.17 | GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?target_milestone=Harmattan |
| 14:40.25 | *** join/#maemo ron1n-work (n=ron1n@208.253.111.18) |
| 14:40.34 | GeneralAntilles | and for another somewhat interesting list for those not paying attention: https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?target_milestone=Fremantle |
| 14:40.51 | GeneralAntilles | Whoa |
| 14:40.54 | GeneralAntilles | New midgard toolbar |
| 14:41.21 | Stskeeps | johnx: what issues are you having? |
| 14:41.42 | johnx | it briefly tries to show the keyboard but immediately dies with an X error |
| 14:41.51 | Stskeeps | ah |
| 14:42.12 | GeneralAntilles | Downloads doesn't feel quite so horrifyingly slow. |
| 14:42.41 | Stskeeps | generally impressed? :P |
| 14:42.51 | GeneralAntilles | Slightly less unsatisfied. ;) |
| 14:42.54 | *** join/#maemo Zic (n=zic@ubuntu/member/zic) |
| 14:43.04 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: We're working on it ;) |
| 14:43.15 | GeneralAntilles | Although I guess this is a software-only improvement, which is more impressive. |
| 14:43.53 | Stskeeps | woo, activity on #3858 |
| 14:44.08 | GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, did you CC Quim or did he pick it up from the Bug Jar? |
| 14:44.14 | Stskeeps | think he picked it up |
| 14:44.31 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gateway.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 14:44.37 | GeneralAntilles | It's interesting the activity that the Bug Jar generates. |
| 14:44.47 | Stskeeps | think i should cc him on anything i find that has to do with alignment, or? :P |
| 14:45.18 | GeneralAntilles | I wouldn't necessarily CC on every trivial thing, but if there's a slightly bigger issue. . . . |
| 14:45.24 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 14:45.26 | GeneralAntilles | Also consider CCing Eero. |
| 14:45.37 | *** join/#maemo L0cmini9 (n=L0cutus@host-84-222-93-1.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 14:46.17 | GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, I feel somewhat inclined towards rating and commenting on applications now. :P |
| 14:46.37 | Stskeeps | bug jar is weekly? |
| 14:46.42 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Yeah, now the html page is returned in a pretty decent time. |
| 14:46.46 | GeneralAntilles | Every Monday |
| 14:46.56 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Next thing is setting up static.maemo.org for the static files. |
| 14:47.00 | *** join/#maemo koyote (n=user@182.235.125.209.transedge.com) |
| 14:47.37 | GeneralAntilles | Hrm, that reminds me. I need to harass Hava about Extras again. . . . |
| 14:52.01 | RST38h | And make them commit the hardware t extras as well! |
| 14:52.04 | RST38h | =) |
| 14:52.35 | *** join/#maemo hfwilke (n=hwilke_@gateway.GRAYINSCO.COM) |
| 14:53.03 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, the day hardware replication is free is the day the world ends. |
| 14:53.24 | Stskeeps | and the AI making it possible starts replicating itsdelf |
| 14:53.24 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 14:53.37 | GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/profile/list/category/itt_thanks/ I still can't get any of these pages to load. |
| 14:54.55 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Works for me. |
| 14:55.46 | GeneralAntilles | Last time it was a server-side timeout after 30s |
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| 15:01.36 | RST38h | "Stallman Unsure Whether Firefox Is Truly Free" |
| 15:01.41 | RST38h | Hehe |
| 15:02.19 | *** join/#maemo zaltair (n=joueur@213.195.224.138) |
| 15:03.32 | GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, it's just timing out client-side now here. |
| 15:03.44 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Yeah, working on it. |
| 15:04.01 | GeneralAntilles | launches TODOs at X-Fade. |
| 15:04.03 | GeneralAntilles | I'll shut up now. ;) |
| 15:05.40 | disco_stu | GeneralAntilles: i was so pissed yesterday when i read the post from TokyoDan or something |
| 15:06.13 | GeneralAntilles | I swear that's a tactic Microsoft's anti-Linux campaign uses |
| 15:06.37 | GeneralAntilles | Something about Linux distros and Apple pushing more security updates than Microsoft makes them less secure. |
| 15:07.13 | disco_stu | jerks.. |
| 15:10.04 | RST38h | Pushing less security updates than MS also makes you less secure |
| 15:10.26 | GeneralAntilles | So you really can have your cake and eat it too? ;) |
| 15:10.38 | RST38h | Obviously, as far as marketing goes |
| 15:11.02 | RST38h | But Linux nuts are guilty of this too |
| 15:11.21 | RST38h | Remember "BSD is fragmented while Linux is just one product" mantra? |
| 15:11.49 | johnx | it turns out that there are enough idiots to go around. no need MS to keep them all |
| 15:12.29 | RST38h | johnx: Amount of available sentiency is constant while population is growing. |
| 15:13.09 | johnx | right, it just means we have to shift more of that sentient biomass over to the projects we're interested in |
| 15:13.24 | RST38h | And use the rest for the biogas |
| 15:17.45 | mavhc | the bsd vs linux war was secretly engineered by MS and apple |
| 15:19.10 | *** join/#maemo Guysoft42 (n=Guysoft@85-250-189-211.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 15:20.05 | RST38h | Why don't I see the Trilateral Commission on this list? |
| 15:20.41 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 15:20.50 | RST38h | azerty12 moo |
| 15:21.42 | qwerty12 | moo FST38h |
| 15:26.02 | *** join/#maemo L0cmini9_ (n=L0cutus@host-84-222-93-1.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 15:26.40 | GeneralAntilles | Is there an IRC meeting today? |
| 15:28.01 | *** join/#maemo ron1n (n=ron1n@208.253.111.18) |
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| 15:30.04 | GeneralAntilles | lardman, ping. |
| 15:31.06 | lardman | GeneralAntilles: pong |
| 15:31.20 | GeneralAntilles | lardman, is GPLv2 acceptable for your en_GB translations? ;) |
| 15:31.54 | lardman | yeah, should be ok, i was thinking of using a LGPL, just in case i wanted to sell them, but I'll make do with GPL |
| 15:31.57 | lardman | ;) :D |
| 15:32.10 | GeneralAntilles | lardman cornering the market on 12 English words. |
| 15:32.22 | lardman | got to start somewhere hey! ;) |
| 15:32.31 | *** join/#maemo L0cutus (n=L0cutus@host-84-222-93-1.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 15:32.39 | GeneralAntilles | I can't believe we don't have any no_NO, pt_PT, or sv_SE people. |
| 15:32.50 | lardman | did you email the list again to ask for some? |
| 15:32.58 | GeneralAntilles | Not yet |
| 15:33.01 | lcuk2 | microsoft have been irking Glazedtransparent curtained not quite doorway cleaners for a while now |
| 15:33.03 | qwerty12 | I've seen quite a few, they must just be hiding :( |
| 15:33.07 | GeneralAntilles | My post is still on the front page of Planet. |
| 15:33.23 | lardman | I look at that very infrequently |
| 15:33.33 | GeneralAntilles | lardman, too bad, you're missing out. ;) |
| 15:33.38 | lardman | :) |
| 15:33.50 | *** join/#maemo bergwolf (n=bergwolf@123.127.134.57) |
| 15:35.03 | *** join/#maemo L0cutus (n=L0cutus@host-84-222-93-1.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 15:37.22 | RST38h | General: KotCzarny has offered to do pl_PL but non-anonymous-edits rule stopped him |
| 15:37.38 | Jaffa | RST38h: There are anonymous edits over HTTPS |
| 15:37.49 | lardman | yeah, the remaining ones could be sent to the list of course |
| 15:37.51 | RST38h | Jaffa: For unknown reason he didn't use that |
| 15:38.17 | RST38h | Jaffa: I do think we need to do PL, CZ, and LT as we have people to do these anyway |
| 15:39.31 | qwerty12 | RST38h, Those 3 languages aren't supported officially in maemo anyway |
| 15:39.47 | lardman | yeah, but we could always add support ;) |
| 15:39.50 | *** join/#maemo madhav (n=Administ@122.167.133.29) |
| 15:40.06 | lardman | esp as there's demand |
| 15:40.06 | rm_you | I'm pretty sure I already have a script to do en_US -> en_GB translations :P |
| 15:40.21 | rm_you | not that we don't love you, lardman :P |
| 15:40.21 | lardman | s/z/s ?? |
| 15:40.30 | lardman | s/o/ou |
| 15:40.32 | lardman | ;) |
| 15:40.48 | qwerty12 | s/gas/petrol |
| 15:40.51 | rm_you | flashlight -> torch |
| 15:40.54 | lardman | s/pants/trousers |
| 15:41.01 | johnx | hey rm_you :D |
| 15:41.02 | rm_you | apartment -> flat |
| 15:41.13 | Jaffa | s/VAT/Sales tax/ |
| 15:41.13 | rm_you | johnx -> jouhnx :P |
| 15:41.15 | qwerty12 | s/hi/wag1 |
| 15:41.17 | RST38h | qwerty: Yes but as we have got both translators and users why not have them? |
| 15:41.21 | lardman | what's gas in the US then, you know the stuff you burn to heat baked beans? |
| 15:41.40 | rm_you | lardman: propane? |
| 15:41.44 | RST38h | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:41.46 | rm_you | natural gas |
| 15:41.51 | lardman | ah ok |
| 15:41.56 | rm_you | one of those two |
| 15:41.58 | johnx | often an electric stove though |
| 15:42.06 | RST38h | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:42.07 | qwerty12 | RST38h, Sure, I think it would be great to support for more languages but I don't see the rest of the UI strings in maemo suddenly getting translated |
| 15:42.11 | rm_you | propane is usually barbeque / older gas stoves |
| 15:42.16 | rm_you | newer use natural gas i think |
| 15:42.19 | rm_you | or else you can just choose |
| 15:42.39 | RST38h | rm_you: "natural gas" is a mix of propane, butane and probably a few more |
| 15:42.55 | lardman | rm_you: I thought propane was only used for boats (as it is lighter than air), while butane is the usual bottled fuel for other apps? |
| 15:43.00 | RST38h | + of course a component to create the smell |
| 15:43.07 | rm_you | don't think so |
| 15:43.15 | disco_stu | NIT's are going to run with gas ? |
| 15:43.20 | lardman | :) |
| 15:43.21 | rm_you | definitely use propane tanks for my barbeque |
| 15:43.26 | johnx | for small bottles it's butane |
| 15:43.27 | lardman | fair enough |
| 15:43.35 | *** join/#maemo datachaos (n=datachao@c9154e81.virtua.com.br) |
| 15:43.46 | johnx | for refillable ones it's propane or natural gas prolly |
| 15:44.09 | rm_you | camping stoves use like... white gas |
| 15:44.12 | rm_you | or something like that |
| 15:44.17 | disco_stu | here we use isobutane and isopropane |
| 15:44.25 | RST38h | same thing |
| 15:44.33 | disco_stu | and natual gas compressed to run cars |
| 15:44.34 | RST38h | slightly differently arranged molecule |
| 15:44.34 | rm_you | johnx: looking forward to winter break :P |
| 15:44.53 | disco_stu | cars and busses |
| 15:45.05 | johnx | rm_you, yes indeed. I'm going to hijack you for some coding projects for sure :D |
| 15:45.15 | RST38h | disco_stu: They make a nice BOOM! when the gas tank gets punctured =) |
| 15:45.20 | rm_you | :P |
| 15:45.26 | disco_stu | RST38h: not at all |
| 15:45.37 | RST38h | disco_stu: They do here =) |
| 15:45.46 | disco_stu | RST38h: we use nice tanks |
| 15:45.54 | *** join/#maemo simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 15:46.20 | lardman | you mean they wait until after 8am to go boom? |
| 15:46.26 | *** join/#maemo brontide (n=ew2193@wlan-3586.sc08.org) |
| 15:46.34 | *** part/#maemo brontide (n=ew2193@wlan-3586.sc08.org) |
| 15:47.00 | disco_stu | lardman: they dont explode at all |
| 15:47.10 | RST38h | http://ukrindustrial.com/img/ua/service_catalog/21189.jpeg |
| 15:47.20 | RST38h | (imagine the rest yourself) |
| 15:47.33 | *** join/#maemo DaCe|ge (n=parachut@ip98-181-56-225.br.br.cox.net) |
| 15:48.06 | GeneralAntilles | They look like this over here: http://www.northarvestbean.org/html/images/061704bus.jpg |
| 15:48.38 | *** join/#maemo _786soul (n=_786_sou@nat026.dc-uoit.net) |
| 15:48.51 | _786soul | Im SO excited I just picked up an N810!!! |
| 15:49.13 | GeneralAntilles | Don't drop it! |
| 15:49.18 | *** join/#maemo gregorovius (n=diego@host128.190-31-14.telecom.net.ar) |
| 15:49.21 | johnx | hi _786soul :) |
| 15:49.42 | RST38h | General: Is that the one locals call "Our pelin? =) |
| 15:49.47 | _786soul | johnx: haha hello! :) |
| 15:49.51 | RST38h | s/pelin/Zeppelin/ |
| 15:49.56 | gregorovius | for all you bacon lovers: http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/17/the-bacon-iphone-sleeve-for-discerning-eyes-only/ |
| 15:50.08 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, sorry, I don't follow. |
| 15:50.13 | _786soul | I just flashed the device and I'm ready to start hacking away :). Extras repository here i come! |
| 15:50.21 | Juhaz | mythbusters shot the crap out of a propane tank and even used tracer and phosphor rounds, no boom whatsoever. well, until they used explosives. |
| 15:50.30 | RST38h | General: Zeppelin was the german guy who pioneered hydrogen filled airships |
| 15:50.41 | lardman | must finish watching his MythBusters DVD :) |
| 15:50.48 | johnx | mmm...Zeppelin NT |
| 15:50.51 | RST38h | General: The airship era officially ended when one of his ships spectacularly blew up |
| 15:51.06 | lardman | well it burned really didn't it, rather than blowing up |
| 15:51.10 | GeneralAntilles | A little roundabout there. . . |
| 15:51.16 | *** part/#maemo _786soul (n=_786_sou@nat026.dc-uoit.net) |
| 15:51.30 | GeneralAntilles | and, yes, I'm familiar with the word and the history. :) |
| 15:51.42 | GeneralAntilles | The relationship to buses is somewhat specious, though. ;) |
| 15:51.53 | RST38h | General: There was a CNN (?) report about propane-powered buses in some US city where locals called them "our zeppelins" with obvious connotations |
| 15:52.05 | GeneralAntilles | Must've missed that one. |
| 15:52.25 | RST38h | DC has also got these btw and they do smell less |
| 15:52.30 | lardman | gregorovius: nice :) |
| 15:52.36 | GeneralAntilles | They have them here, too. |
| 15:52.43 | glass | they're pretty common |
| 15:52.44 | mavhc | RST38h: because they were painted in thermite? |
| 15:52.45 | GeneralAntilles | Natural gas buses are pretty common, actually. |
| 15:52.47 | rm_you | johnx: off to class |
| 15:52.48 | rm_you | ttyl |
| 15:52.53 | johnx | later rm_you |
| 15:52.53 | rm_you | GeneralAntilles too :P |
| 15:52.58 | johnx | come by more often :P |
| 15:53.01 | RST38h | mavhc: heh, was that true?!? |
| 15:53.03 | GeneralAntilles | throws rocks at rm_you. |
| 15:53.04 | rm_you | I wish i had time :P |
| 15:53.17 | rm_you | only here now while GF gets ready to go |
| 15:53.22 | rm_you | and... leaving |
| 15:53.28 | rm_you | waves |
| 15:53.42 | aquatix | cya |
| 15:53.46 | aquatix | :) |
| 15:54.04 | disco_stu | here thousands of vehicles run on gas, none of them never exploded or damaged because of the gas tank/system |
| 15:54.21 | Stskeeps | johnx: still exploding h-i-m? |
| 15:54.28 | mavhc | RST38h: kinda, see mythbusters |
| 15:54.36 | GeneralAntilles | disco_stu, so what you're saying is they've all exploded? :P |
| 15:54.57 | RST38h | mavhc: aluminium particles, eh? ;) |
| 15:54.58 | mavhc | I've never seen a gas powered bus, all the ones near here must have exploded |
| 15:55.16 | aquatix | sees those all the time |
| 15:55.25 | johnx | Stskeeps, yeah. :/ the nolauncher build option is b0rken. and I have no leads on the error. but since it's launched by maemo-invoker I don't even know how I should be attaching strace or ltrace to it |
| 15:55.34 | disco_stu | s/never/ever/ |
| 15:55.37 | GeneralAntilles | I like the electric buses in SF |
| 15:55.58 | mavhc | we have electric trams |
| 15:56.06 | mgedmin | I like how they have 'Zero Emissions Vehicle' proudly written on them |
| 15:56.15 | RST38h | hehe |
| 15:56.17 | GeneralAntilles | Ha |
| 15:56.25 | RST38h | natural gas ones are actually closer to that |
| 15:56.30 | mavhc | they don't even emit heat |
| 15:56.44 | Stskeeps | johnx: so it's maemo-launcher causing problems? |
| 15:56.44 | aquatix | mavhc: they don't? |
| 15:56.46 | RST38h | mavhc: trams emit heat, especially when breaking |
| 15:56.47 | jaska | whaaat |
| 15:56.59 | aquatix | mavhc: that's virtually impossible :) |
| 15:57.00 | RST38h | there is a huge resistor bank |
| 15:57.08 | aquatix | RST38h: indeed |
| 15:57.15 | johnx | Stskeeps, honestly, I don't know what causes the crash, but I'd like to get maemo-launcher out of the equation |
| 15:57.18 | *** join/#maemo Meizirkki (n=Meizirkk@dsl-lhtbrasgw2-fe2cf800-231.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 15:57.47 | GeneralAntilles | just wants pancakes. |
| 15:58.22 | qwerty12 | johnx, does the flag actually get passed to configure? |
| 15:58.33 | aquatix | GeneralAntilles: i second that motion |
| 15:58.49 | johnx | yeah, tried passing directly. it causes configure to fail in an interesting way |
| 15:58.55 | johnx | time to dig into it I guess |
| 16:00.11 | Stskeeps | johnx: nolauncher on him or maemo-launcher? |
| 16:01.02 | RST38h | Ok, I am going to file a bug (feature request actually) about integrating Symbian-like character palette into virtual keyboard. |
| 16:01.09 | RST38h | Anybody willing to support? |
| 16:01.27 | qwerty12 | RST38h, I'll vote. That was useful even on an N-Gage |
| 16:01.45 | RST38h | the current character palette in Maemo is atrocious really |
| 16:02.43 | Stskeeps | johnx: i'll work on getting startx and such in a package |
| 16:03.15 | Stskeeps | or what seems sane |
| 16:03.27 | johnx | startx or xinit or whatever |
| 16:03.31 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 16:03.31 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, example? |
| 16:04.50 | *** join/#maemo booiiing (n=[booiiin@e180032084.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:06.13 | RST38h | General: Get an S60 phone, open notepad app, press the pencil key to input a character |
| 16:06.28 | RST38h | General: then press pencil key again - you will see a list of recently used characters at the top |
| 16:06.29 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, don't have one handy. |
| 16:06.37 | RST38h | a moment, I will find a screenshot |
| 16:06.48 | GeneralAntilles | Thanks |
| 16:07.32 | RST38h | Here is a bug to vote on: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3866 |
| 16:07.44 | *** join/#maemo Mousey (n=welcomem@dsl231-036-060.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:10.34 | *** join/#maemo L0cmini9 (n=L0cutus@host-84-222-93-1.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 16:12.41 | RST38h | General: Like this but with lately used characters n the top row: http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/images/predictivetext/p3.jpg |
| 16:12.58 | RST38h | (this screenshot comes from an older S60 version) |
| 16:16.39 | *** join/#maemo ron1n (n=ron1n@208.253.111.18) |
| 16:20.23 | Stskeeps | johnx: btw you do root or an user account, when starting X/hildon and such? |
| 16:20.34 | johnx | I run as a user |
| 16:21.18 | Stskeeps | starting X "raw" or through startx or? |
| 16:21.25 | johnx | just "Xorg" |
| 16:21.50 | Stskeeps | k |
| 16:21.55 | *** join/#maemo zaltair (n=joueur@213.195.224.138) |
| 16:23.33 | *** join/#maemo data|2 (n=datachao@c9154e81.virtua.com.br) |
| 16:23.58 | qwerty12 | johnx, fixed. Use this configure.ac : http://pastebin.com/d1f5494fe |
| 16:26.03 | *** part/#maemo wom (n=wom@surffer.net) |
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| 16:26.54 | johnx | qwerty12, you are awesome |
| 16:27.33 | *** part/#maemo gzed (n=gzed@85-18-14-18.fastres.net) |
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| 16:28.09 | qwerty12 | :) |
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| 16:53.27 | johnx | still not quite working, though I think it's getting farther. I'll post the error up to pastebin but don't worry about it if you don't want to, cause I'm gonna get to bed. http://pastebin.com/m7ece8dc1 |
| 16:54.36 | qwerty12 | I've built a copy of h-i-m with maemo-launcher and without fine in sbox :/. What is your autoconf version? |
| 16:55.02 | johnx | 2.61 |
| 16:56.05 | qwerty12 | Hrm, 2.59 so I don't think that makes a difference :/ |
| 16:56.40 | qwerty12 | Is this on a clean tree? (Proper clean that is, not debian/rules's idea of cleaning :)) |
| 16:56.45 | *** join/#maemo roope_ (n=Meizirkk@dsl-lhtbrasgw2-fe2cf800-231.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 16:56.47 | johnx | I appreciate the help, but I'm about to fall asleep on my keyboard here |
| 16:56.53 | qwerty12 | :) |
| 16:56.55 | *** join/#maemo madhav (n=Administ@122.167.133.29) |
| 16:56.58 | johnx | I'll look at it again tomorrow when I can think clearly |
| 16:57.06 | johnx | 'night qwerty12 and thanks again |
| 16:57.15 | Meizirkkki | where can i get aclocal? |
| 16:57.21 | qwerty12 | 'night johnx. No problems :) |
| 16:57.47 | Meizirkkki | i am trying to compile advanced-backlight |
| 16:59.00 | qwerty12 | johnx, when[/if] you do see this message, try this one instead : http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/configure.ac (I shouldn't have moved the AM_CONDITIONAL line, even though *strictly* speaking, it makes no difference really - just an annoyance rather) |
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| 18:02.22 | Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: does your tslib work? |
| 18:02.34 | Stskeeps | i don't seem to have mine working or something |
| 18:03.15 | Meiz_n810 | It works with me, did you remember to copy poitercal from maemo? |
| 18:03.41 | Meiz_n810 | it refuses to work if there is no /etc/pointercal |
| 18:03.46 | Stskeeps | oh |
| 18:03.51 | Stskeeps | damnit, fell into my own trap :P |
| 18:04.14 | Meiz_n810 | i was not able to compile a-b |
| 18:05.07 | Stskeeps | what error did you run into? |
| 18:05.25 | Meiz_n810 | autogen naggs about sone binaries are missing |
| 18:05.36 | Meiz_n810 | i have installed all build-deps |
| 18:05.50 | Stskeeps | hmm |
| 18:05.56 | Stskeeps | got a paste per chance? |
| 18:06.36 | Meiz_n810 | can't paste from qemu, but it says this for example: automake-1.7 No such file of directory |
| 18:06.54 | Stskeeps | ah |
| 18:06.59 | Stskeeps | apt-get install automake17 |
| 18:07.12 | Meiz_n810 | wait... |
| 18:07.46 | Meiz_n810 | fucking homework... =P |
| 18:08.28 | *** join/#maemo Pebby (n=PebbyWeb@c-24-5-47-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 18:08.31 | Stskeeps | hehe |
| 18:14.02 | GeneralAntilles | andre__, ping. |
| 18:16.46 | GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, ping. |
| 18:16.53 | qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, pong |
| 18:17.16 | GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, what cool packaging features should I stick in my PSA? |
| 18:17.27 | qwerty12 | PSA? |
| 18:17.44 | GeneralAntilles | Maemo-Display-Name, update descriptions, checking to see if a folder was already picked during updates |
| 18:17.48 | GeneralAntilles | Public Service Announcement |
| 18:19.18 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-34-136.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net) |
| 18:19.20 | qwerty12 | Dunno really, I'm not the best of packagers... A Maemo-Icon-26 is nice if applicable, and maybe (if the application benefits) using VFP |
| 18:20.55 | GeneralAntilles | Can you formulate a generic guide to checking whether a user have previously selected a folder? |
| 18:23.03 | mikkov_ | GeneralAntilles: what do you mean by previously selected folder? |
| 18:23.20 | GeneralAntilles | When you select where you want the .desktop to go in the application menu. |
| 18:23.20 | *** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=Thomas_P@p57A14A94.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:23.28 | qwerty12 | Add 'oldversion="$2"' and 'if [ -z "$oldversion" ]; then' (w/out ') above the maemo-select-menu-location in their postinst and a 'fi' under it |
| 18:23.56 | GeneralAntilles | Rather than a user having to reselect that folder everytime the package is upgraded, it'll check to see if a location has already been picked and suppress the selection dialog if so. |
| 18:24.06 | GeneralAntilles | Thanks, qwerty12. |
| 18:24.16 | GeneralAntilles | I'll run my description by you after I formulate it. ;) |
| 18:24.21 | qwerty12 | :) |
| 18:24.52 | qwerty12 | Solmumaha warns me however that using oldversion to check isn't exactly wise though as oldversion can mean more than just an upgrade :) but I've yet to see any other ways of doing so |
| 18:25.40 | mikkov_ | it's not dangerous when we are talking only about maemo-select-menu-location |
| 18:25.52 | qwerty12 | fair enough |
| 18:27.36 | *** join/#maemo MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@unaffiliated/morpheuz) |
| 18:27.45 | Stskeeps | plays with m-r |
| 18:27.56 | mikkov_ | http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html#s-mscriptsinstact there's all possibilites |
| 18:27.57 | qwerty12 | reads up on how to use maemo-launcher. Messing with router toolchains is driving me to the verge of craziness |
| 18:29.40 | *** join/#maemo user__ (n=user@dsl-lhtbrasgw2-fe2cf800-231.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:30.38 | user__ | Stskeeps: is the m-r installer on svn most up-to-date? |
| 18:31.19 | Stskeeps | user__: checkking |
| 18:32.39 | *** join/#maemo Havi (n=navi@unaffiliated/navi) |
| 18:32.41 | Stskeeps | now it is |
| 18:32.45 | Meiz_n810 | ok |
| 18:33.10 | Meiz_n810 | this time, i had input/output errors all the time |
| 18:33.19 | *** part/#maemo thopiekar (n=Thomas_P@p57A14A94.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:33.40 | Stskeeps | eh |
| 18:33.51 | Stskeeps | sure you remembered to install into a mounted partition? |
| 18:33.55 | Stskeeps | heh "(WW) OS did not count PCI devices, guessing wildly |
| 18:33.55 | Stskeeps | " |
| 18:34.02 | Stskeeps | that's the kind of thing you want to see in a X log |
| 18:34.34 | Meiz_n810 | mounted partition? |
| 18:35.04 | Meiz_n810 | i think the partition has to be mounted if i can boot from it |
| 18:35.10 | qwerty12 | uploads the finished "thief's" initfs |
| 18:35.11 | Stskeeps | ah |
| 18:35.23 | Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: true, so input/output errors when booting? |
| 18:35.59 | Meiz_n810 | no, when trying to run xserver etc... |
| 18:36.16 | *** join/#maemo L0cutus (n=L0cutus@host-84-222-93-1.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 18:36.44 | Stskeeps | hm |
| 18:36.47 | Stskeeps | dmesg? |
| 18:36.56 | *** join/#maemo aantn (n=natan@bzq-79-183-100-73.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 18:37.00 | Meiz_n810 | too late.. |
| 18:37.42 | *** join/#maemo andre__ (n=andre@f053154054.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
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| 18:38.31 | Stskeeps | k |
| 18:38.32 | Meiz_n810 | i think my sd can be corrupted... I fail 60% of the times i try to install deblet or m-r |
| 18:39.32 | Meiz_n810 | or maybe it is always my bad =) |
| 18:39.42 | *** part/#maemo netx (n=rlange@horus.darkempire.org) |
| 18:41.05 | lcuk2 | 60% failure rate isnt that bad - you are just being negative. remember, 40% of people who tried to install it managed to get through |
| 18:41.14 | GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, can you recommend a link, tool, or something for encoding images into base64? |
| 18:42.04 | lcuk2 | GeneralAntilles, man base64 |
| 18:42.21 | mikkov_ | or uuencode -m |
| 18:42.25 | qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, No, sorry :/. I grab the base64 tool from the certified repository and space out the lines manually for the control file |
| 18:42.48 | lcuk2 | (me has never been able to say that before) |
| 18:44.01 | mikkov_ | base64 is not in sdk? |
| 18:44.22 | qwerty12 | Only source, I can't be arsed to compile it when nokia have already done so :/ |
| 18:44.33 | qwerty12 | (but not in the sdk repo) |
| 18:44.45 | mikkov_ | uuencode is in sdk |
| 18:45.58 | *** join/#maemo bilboed (n=bilboed@89.129.151.43) |
| 18:46.28 | Stskeeps | shakes hildon for refusing to give him any icons |
| 18:46.40 | Meiz_n810 | lcuk2: when i said 60% i was being positive =P |
| 18:46.48 | GeneralAntilles | If somebody will review what I've got so far . . . http://slexy.org/view/s24BT18FOj |
| 18:46.49 | lcuk2 | heh |
| 18:49.03 | lcuk2 | GeneralAntilles, that reads really nicely, however i think its gonna get lost in the churn, an additional suggestion would be to see about getting these kind of notes appended to the invitation to upload to extras mail |
| 18:49.24 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk2, I've got a wiki page hanging around somewhere. |
| 18:49.36 | GeneralAntilles | A link to http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/packaging-stable.html in the invite email would work. |
| 18:49.39 | lcuk2 | yeah i used it extensively when i was uploading |
| 18:49.52 | lcuk2 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras |
| 18:49.55 | lcuk2 | i went with that one |
| 18:50.09 | GeneralAntilles | https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_packaging is the other |
| 18:50.13 | GeneralAntilles | Shorter than I remember. <_< |
| 18:50.20 | lcuk2 | which still specifies signing btw |
| 18:50.40 | GeneralAntilles | gently encourages qwerty12 to contribute to that page with a cattle prod. :P |
| 18:51.34 | qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, The hint is gently taken :D. I'll try |
| 18:51.53 | qwerty12 | to but there are a lot of better packagers than me :P |
| 18:52.10 | lcuk2 | GeneralAntilles, there does need to be a cross link through with the uploading to extras - ive never seen any of the other packaging info pages |
| 18:52.31 | GeneralAntilles | It's like an accomplished biathlete saying he just shoots OK. . . . |
| 18:52.33 | lcuk2 | qwerty12, you are amazing at packaging - you can make sure everyone is called northern |
| 18:53.05 | Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: should i use -b option with dpkg-buildpackage, when compiling a-b? |
| 18:53.05 | qwerty12 | lcuk2, that postinst was the best :P |
| 18:53.25 | Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: either one will work |
| 18:53.30 | Meiz_n810 | ok |
| 18:53.33 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:53.35 | Stskeeps | i just dpkg-buildpacakge really |
| 18:53.59 | lcuk2 | GeneralAntilles, no its not - the Hildon-App-Manager is not required for all packages, and as long as they follow apt-get/debian rules people wont get lost. however the one specific point when entering maemo is the uploading to extras |
| 18:54.27 | lcuk2 | yes qwerty12_N800 that postinst was the best, you twt |
| 18:54.32 | lcuk2 | ooops, i forgot a vowel |
| 18:54.54 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk2, I don't follow. |
| 18:55.24 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk2, that comment was addressed to qwerty12 |
| 18:55.26 | lcuk2 | i can build a package without ever knowing that there is a specific program called "hildon-application-manager" (infact i did, it was only recently i found out it had a name) |
| 18:55.51 | lcuk2 | the qwerty one was aimed at qwerty, the GeneralAntilles was aimed at you |
| 18:55.58 | lcuk2 | the vowel one was qwertys |
| 18:56.04 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk2, fair enough, but what, specifically were you responding to. |
| 18:56.07 | GeneralAntilles | No what's not? |
| 18:56.47 | *** join/#maemo Grackle (n=Alex@sp0585392.um.maine.edu) |
| 18:56.48 | lcuk2 | i think we got wires a bit crossed up there ^ |
| 18:56.55 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, so do I. ;) |
| 18:57.01 | lcuk2 | drops it and goes and has t |
| 18:57.01 | qwerty12_N800 | lcuk2, i found it more funny that it was included in one of your final releases :p |
| 18:57.26 | lcuk2 | regression testing |
| 18:57.30 | lcuk2 | << fail |
| 18:57.43 | qwerty12_N800 | wonders how many accepted.... |
| 18:58.34 | lcuk2 | ive actually noticed something more worrying |
| 18:58.47 | lcuk2 | in my debian folder a load of the files are now size 0 |
| 19:01.49 | *** join/#maemo bilboed (n=bilboed@89.129.151.43) |
| 19:02.23 | qwerty12_N800 | lcuk2, checked for the debian northerner virus i added to liqbase? |
| 19:03.23 | *** join/#maemo timsamoff (n=timsamof@ppp-70-243-252-202.dsl.ksc2mo.swbell.net) |
| 19:03.50 | lcuk2 | no, but did you find my "if(username=qwerty12){ system.charger.overload(); }" tweak? |
| 19:04.14 | Stskeeps | gives up on m-r for today until he finds out how the hell to get icons working on hildon. |
| 19:04.15 | *** join/#maemo jpuderer (n=jpuderer@208.50.251.115) |
| 19:04.19 | timsamoff | Hello... Anyone know when the maemo site redesign meeting is today ? |
| 19:04.32 | qwerty12_N800 | lcuk2, south hater! |
| 19:04.36 | *** join/#maemo dougt (n=dougt@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
| 19:04.44 | X-Fade | timsamoff: some time ago ;) |
| 19:04.56 | GeneralAntilles | timsamoff, bit of a misfire, apparently. |
| 19:04.57 | X-Fade | timsamoff: They were waiting for you.. |
| 19:05.03 | timsamoff | Arg. I'm very out of sorts lately. |
| 19:05.07 | GeneralAntilles | You ruined it all. |
| 19:05.19 | qwerty12_N800 | Bad timsamoff. |
| 19:05.21 | timsamoff | :p |
| 19:05.30 | GeneralAntilles | No, actually, practically nobody showed. |
| 19:05.37 | GeneralAntilles | Only Peres |
| 19:06.17 | timsamoff | Until I get an actual computer up and running, I may need email reminders. :( |
| 19:06.44 | timsamoff | Ok. Carry on. I can suck on my own . :p |
| 19:06.45 | GeneralAntilles | Subscribe to the RSS feed for maemo.org events and make sure dneary files them. . . . |
| 19:06.45 | lcuk2 | so you can go "shit! missed another meeting?" |
| 19:06.48 | Stskeeps | you have your tablet, it's all you need ;) |
| 19:06.59 | Stskeeps | nokia - raw power in your pants |
| 19:07.04 | Stskeeps | .. or something |
| 19:07.15 | lcuk2 | its not raw, its refined |
| 19:07.18 | timsamoff | Ha. With tthe ever helpful pim. |
| 19:07.51 | *** join/#maemo Mouser810 (n=Mouser@24-241-236-207.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 19:08.06 | timsamoff | Later, guys. Have a good one. |
| 19:08.09 | *** part/#maemo timsamoff (n=timsamof@ppp-70-243-252-202.dsl.ksc2mo.swbell.net) |
| 19:08.40 | andre__ | GeneralAntilles, pong |
| 19:08.45 | lcuk2 | hates timezones |
| 19:08.56 | lcuk2 | why cant everyone be on the same time \@/ |
| 19:10.03 | GeneralAntilles | andre__, OK, since I totally failed at cornering guenther about Garage tracking in bugzilla when he was here for about an hour, is there any way you can tell me what needs to be done to start community tracking, and what I need to do (and how to do it) to carry the administrative weight for you? |
| 19:10.30 | *** join/#maemo Meiz__n810 (n=user@dsl-lhtbrasgw2-fe2cf800-231.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:10.38 | *** join/#maemo GNUtonio (n=antonio@cs181161024.pp.htv.fi) |
| 19:12.24 | andre__ | GeneralAntilles, as far as i understand this requires some database changes. one needs to be able to set a user as a developer of a certain product (not trivial) and by that provide permissions to add target milestones, versions, and e.g. adding components |
| 19:12.44 | Mouser810 | lcuk2, they can - just adopt internet time :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time |
| 19:13.31 | GeneralAntilles | non-trivial . . . *sigh* |
| 19:13.56 | *** join/#maemo housetier_ (n=housetie@unaffiliated/housetier) |
| 19:15.36 | andre__ | let me ping him |
| 19:15.37 | *** join/#maemo andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 19:16.33 | RST38h | Is maemo.org now officially dead? |
| 19:16.42 | RST38h | It shows some JavaScript error |
| 19:16.45 | GeneralAntilles | Works fine here. |
| 19:17.01 | X-Fade | RST38h: There is a script error on the front page. |
| 19:17.03 | GeneralAntilles | But "maemo.org" is way too non-specific |
| 19:17.09 | X-Fade | RST38h: But we are working on that ;) |
| 19:17.24 | RST38h | General: All of it, I checked |
| 19:17.34 | RST38h | main page, downloads, planet, development |
| 19:17.55 | RST38h | X-Fade: Oh, the horror! The suffering! |
| 19:19.10 | X-Fade | RST38h: What error do you see? Because I can't trigger it now? |
| 19:19.54 | RST38h | X-Fade: FireFox shows a dialog (with warning icon) full of some JS code |
| 19:20.03 | *** join/#maemo MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@unaffiliated/morpheuz) |
| 19:20.08 | X-Fade | RST38h: My FF3 doesn't do that at all? |
| 19:20.15 | RST38h | weird, seems to work now |
| 19:20.20 | RST38h | may have been a glitch |
| 19:21.51 | GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, anybody else who cares: http://slexy.org/view/s21QtiKjmJ |
| 19:23.52 | GeneralAntilles | Good times with bugs: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2436#c4 |
| 19:23.59 | qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles, looks good to me |
| 19:24.01 | *** join/#maemo ron1n (n=ron1n@208.253.111.18) |
| 19:24.10 | GeneralAntilles | posts away. |
| 19:25.04 | RST38h | [in whining voice] Please have user/emulators category! =) |
| 19:25.25 | qwerty12_N800 | Though thinking about it, you may want to add base64 should be ran outside of sbox (it's not in any repo except nokia system updates... anyone willing to send base64 to extras?) |
| 19:25.25 | *** join/#maemo bergie (n=bergie@cs181192153.pp.htv.fi) |
| 19:25.28 | GeneralAntilles | writes user/games or user/utilities on RST38h's forehead. |
| 19:25.30 | RST38h | the select-location trick is actually useful |
| 19:25.44 | RST38h | General <-- evil |
| 19:26.07 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, you said 10% of the packages have to fit in a section for the section to be considered |
| 19:26.13 | GeneralAntilles | That means you need to find about 24 emulators. :P |
| 19:26.38 | GeneralAntilles | and emulators which are clearly games (you know, the ones emulating game systems) don't count. :P |
| 19:26.40 | RST38h | 10 or so I can easily find |
| 19:26.51 | X-Fade | Hmm I am one day behind with Extras account request invitations. 6 people waiting. It seems we get more people on board. |
| 19:26.52 | GeneralAntilles | 10 is closer to %4. |
| 19:27.04 | RST38h | 24 is unlikely but then you can't fuill Location&Navigation based on the same principle |
| 19:27.34 | *** join/#maemo guysoft422 (n=guysoft@85-250-189-211.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 19:27.39 | *** join/#maemo moontiger (n=lauren@adsl-69-232-212-72.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 19:28.01 | GeneralAntilles | Would anybody else prefer justified paragraphs on maemo.org? |
| 19:28.04 | Stskeeps | 'lo moontiger |
| 19:28.10 | moontiger | hey :) |
| 19:28.32 | *** join/#maemo Havi (n=navi@unaffiliated/navi) |
| 19:28.32 | Stskeeps | how's the call-back service going? |
| 19:28.45 | moontiger | i have a nokia n79 phone (just got it) and the web browser is easier to use than the one on my n810 |
| 19:28.49 | moontiger | weird |
| 19:28.58 | moontiger | the phonehome? |
| 19:29.01 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 19:29.07 | mikkov_ | GeneralAntilles: I wouldn't write about base64 because it's not available in sdk or extras repo |
| 19:29.31 | moontiger | i have been working on the web interface a lot but havent checked any new code in yet ... been getting ready to move continents |
| 19:29.38 | GeneralAntilles | mikkov_, uuencode -m then? |
| 19:29.58 | RST38h | Ah, my poor little tablet died of staron! |
| 19:30.01 | *** join/#maemo chelli (n=chelli@p54B85512.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:30.52 | moontiger | Stskeeps, im hoping to get some new stuff up this week but the server has been down lately too |
| 19:30.58 | Stskeeps | moontiger: *nod* i've mainly been working on the maemo reconstructed proof of concept the last weeks, put deblet in a slightly lower gear as this has more potential |
| 19:31.08 | mikkov_ | GeneralAntilles: uuencode is in sharutils utils package, don't know if it's installed by default in sdk |
| 19:31.27 | moontiger | Stskeeps, sounds good ... anything to see yet? |
| 19:31.28 | mikkov_ | sharutils package |
| 19:32.19 | Stskeeps | moontiger: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/hildon-desktop-gqviewxwd.png , 123mb in flash storage |
| 19:32.34 | moontiger | im thinking to write a generic xml-rpc client that can talk to any service (with config) and upload / download any data you have access to |
| 19:33.12 | moontiger | Stskeeps, looks good |
| 19:33.28 | Stskeeps | and this is with a sane base system :) |
| 19:33.28 | moontiger | a completely free maemo yes? |
| 19:33.49 | Stskeeps | atleast base is, hw support may be non-free |
| 19:33.54 | moontiger | right |
| 19:33.59 | moontiger | depeneding on vendors |
| 19:34.15 | mikkov_ | GeneralAntilles: probably link to maemo policy would be good, because it's awful hard to find |
| 19:34.25 | GeneralAntilles | mikkov_, last paragraph |
| 19:34.30 | Stskeeps | yeah, in nokia's case we'd have firmware for wifi+bluetooth, BME and some various stuff probably |
| 19:34.39 | Stskeeps | and their differentation on top |
| 19:34.55 | Mouser810 | Has anyone else had problems with their headphone jack? My device acts like headphones are always connected which overrides bluetooth audio and internal speakers. |
| 19:34.59 | moontiger | nice |
| 19:36.19 | Stskeeps | moontiger: if you're on jaiku you can follow our progress on #reconstructedPOC (warning, we run an experiment where we microdocument everything, achievements, problems, etc :P) |
| 19:36.25 | moontiger | im excited to get moved and settled in so i can get into some coding properly |
| 19:36.46 | moontiger | i'll get a jaiku account set up i think as i want to play with microblogging anyways |
| 19:37.04 | *** join/#maemo zap (n=zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net) |
| 19:37.05 | GeneralAntilles | Don't forget Mauku |
| 19:37.09 | Stskeeps | *nod* if you want an invite just say |
| 19:37.12 | moontiger | btw nokia n79 is an awesome phone |
| 19:37.13 | Stskeeps | and yes, mauku is excellent |
| 19:37.13 | moontiger | :) |
| 19:37.20 | moontiger | Stskeeps, thnx will do |
| 19:37.32 | moontiger | could u send one? |
| 19:37.46 | moontiger | lauren at gagfoot dot com |
| 19:38.16 | mikkov_ | GeneralAntilles: ok, din't read the whole article ;) |
| 19:38.59 | Stskeeps | moontiger: invited |
| 19:40.13 | Meiz__n810 | Stskeeps: i have tried to install m-r with your latest installer now three times... something goes always wrong with debootstrap... |
| 19:40.49 | Stskeeps | Meiz__n810: that's weird.. and md5sum is in place and all that stuff? |
| 19:40.56 | Meiz__n810 | yep |
| 19:41.28 | Meiz__n810 | it fails at the end if extracting... |
| 19:41.32 | *** join/#maemo jordan_dev (i=jfrank8@agent22-ml.CS.McGill.CA) |
| 19:41.33 | moontiger | Stskeeps, thnx |
| 19:41.49 | Meiz__n810 | some problems with libc6 |
| 19:42.36 | Stskeeps | Meiz__n810: that's odd really.. debootstrap.log? |
| 19:43.00 | Meiz__n810 | s*it, just formatted |
| 19:43.15 | Meiz__n810 | i will try to debootstrap manually |
| 19:43.28 | jordan_dev | I'm trying to compile an app for the Nokia n810 using Scratchbox2. The app needs to use a kernel Mutex, but when I include mutex.h, I get "error: field 'wait_list' has incomplete type", and the same error for two other fields. |
| 19:45.10 | Meiz__n810 | Stskeeps: i'll try one more time with installer |
| 19:45.30 | Meiz__n810 | if it fails i will give you debootstrap.log |
| 19:45.43 | jordan_dev | So has anyone here successfully included mutex.h, and was there any funny business required to get it to compile? |
| 19:47.31 | Stskeeps | jordan_dev: and you're using maemo sdk+? |
| 19:47.37 | jordan_dev | yes |
| 19:49.15 | Stskeeps | why a kernel mutex and not pthread, though? |
| 19:50.06 | jordan_dev | i have an event driven app, a bunch of the event handlers might access some piece of data at the same time, and i want to synchronize access |
| 19:50.23 | jordan_dev | kernel mutex seems like the easiest, lowest overhead method of accomplishing this |
| 19:51.04 | jordan_dev | and these events will be triggered 20-30 times per second, and so low overhead is important |
| 19:52.58 | jordan_dev | this is the first time I've worked on an app that uses any of the kernel headers though, so I'm thinking that I'm missing something simple and fundamental |
| 19:53.55 | jordan_dev | in my rootstrap/usr/include/linux, the version.h file has 2.6.16, and I know that the Nokia is using 2.6.21 |
| 19:54.19 | Stskeeps | sure you're using the right rootstrap and not some bora one? |
| 19:55.03 | jordan_dev | it's definitely a diablo rootstrap, although i'm not sure it's been updated since the latest OS2008 release |
| 19:55.41 | jordan_dev | I still don't think that this is what's causing the problem though, because I've checked the mutex.h from 2.6.21, and the same line that's causing problems is in there |
| 19:56.07 | Stskeeps | maybe mutex.h depends on some other .h? system headers arent always honest about their needs |
| 19:57.24 | jordan_dev | do you know if there's a simple way to update the rootstrap? |
| 19:57.37 | jordan_dev | or should I just make a new one |
| 19:58.42 | Stskeeps | question is always if it's sane to make a new one or easy :P |
| 20:04.20 | *** join/#maemo cowbellemoo (n=cowbelle@207.97.40.1) |
| 20:06.41 | *** part/#maemo dougt (n=dougt@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
| 20:07.16 | jordan_dev | i created a new rootstrap and it gives the same kernel sources...so I'm thinking that the rootstrap doesn't contain the nokia n810 kernel sources (which makes sense) |
| 20:07.23 | jordan_dev | but the compiler should still work |
| 20:07.47 | jordan_dev | I'll deal with the problem of running the app on the n810 later, but now I'd just like to get the thing to compile |
| 20:08.59 | Stskeeps | consider using sb1 for now maybe? |
| 20:10.41 | lcuk2 | has blank canvas syndrome |
| 20:10.44 | *** join/#maemo AngieQ (n=AngieQ@66-189-144-100.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com) |
| 20:11.00 | Stskeeps | passes lcuk2 some bacon |
| 20:11.02 | jordan_dev | i've never really used it, but I'll try... |
| 20:11.20 | lcuk2 | i dont think bacon will help |
| 20:11.31 | lcuk2 | i even turned my nose up at some pork crackling today |
| 20:11.51 | qwerty12_N800 | lcuk2, now just title that blank canvas "the north" :p |
| 20:11.51 | jordan_dev | hmmm, same error |
| 20:11.59 | GAN800 | liqtris time! |
| 20:12.27 | *** join/#maemo ron1n (n=ron1n@208.253.111.18) |
| 20:12.28 | lcuk2 | heh GAN800 i keep writing liqgame.c but get sidetracked and it turns into something else |
| 20:12.30 | *** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@147.17.168.202-static.velocitynet.com.au) |
| 20:12.33 | lcuk2 | cos the ui works for xyz |
| 20:12.49 | lcuk2 | has qwertty on ignore so didnt see his comment |
| 20:13.22 | lcuk2 | Stskeeps, you've seen the bubbles thing havent you - the windows app |
| 20:13.36 | Stskeeps | thatwhatnow? |
| 20:13.38 | Stskeeps | the |
| 20:13.56 | *** join/#maemo mbuf (n=user@c-7974e455.17-501-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:14.30 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@a83-132-28-51.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 20:14.31 | Stskeeps | continues coding his cow collar.. |
| 20:14.42 | *** join/#maemo lpotter (n=ljp@CPE-124-191-144-181.vic.bigpond.net.au) |
| 20:16.10 | *** join/#maemo behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 20:16.31 | lcuk2 | this one http://liqbase.net/lcuk_parray.png |
| 20:18.17 | Stskeeps | hehe, i'm scarred by the VB icon ;) |
| 20:18.43 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-34-136.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net) |
| 20:19.57 | RST38h | Hell, people, has ANYONE tried tracking finger movements in GTK+ on Maemo? |
| 20:20.06 | RST38h | motion-notify-event does not work. |
| 20:21.53 | RST38h | !!!!!!!!!!!! Found it! |
| 20:22.02 | RST38h | In MaemoPad+ source code: " gtk_widget_set_extension_events(result->drawingarea, GDK_EXTENSION_EVENTS_CURSOR); /* root of all evil */ |
| 20:22.10 | RST38h | indeed. |
| 20:22.16 | lcuk2 | from my python drawing thing which uses a gtk drawingarea |
| 20:24.08 | Meiz__n810 | Stskeeps: it looks like debootstrap works now |
| 20:25.21 | GeneralAntilles | dies of starvation |
| 20:26.02 | ds3 | throws cookies at GeneralAntilles |
| 20:26.15 | qwerty12_N800 | infobot, give GeneralAntilles cookies |
| 20:26.16 | infobot | ACTION gives cookies to GeneralAntilles |
| 20:26.22 | RST38h | Nope, this does not work either |
| 20:26.30 | GeneralAntilles | catches them out of the air like a seal catching thrown fish. |
| 20:30.20 | *** join/#maemo glass_ (i=glass@ip242.otanner5.opintanner.fi) |
| 20:32.52 | RST38h | lcuk: Can you remember how you deed motion tracking? |
| 20:33.03 | *** join/#maemo Guysoft42 (n=Guysoft@85-250-189-211.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 20:33.22 | lcuk2 | RST38h, you had it then |
| 20:33.39 | lcuk2 | i created the drawing area (this is python, but i assume the api is similar/same) |
| 20:33.41 | lcuk2 | drawing_area.connect("motion_notify_event", motion_notify_event) |
| 20:33.45 | lcuk2 | then connected ^ |
| 20:33.54 | lcuk2 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:34.20 | lcuk2 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:34.34 | *** join/#maemo dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:34.55 | dneary | Hi |
| 20:34.59 | lcuk2 | hiya dave |
| 20:35.26 | RST38h | lcuk: Aha! thanks! |
| 20:35.56 | *** join/#maemo L0cutus (n=L0cutus@94.161.44.204) |
| 20:35.57 | lcuk2 | RST38h, it needs everything i think |
| 20:36.10 | lcuk2 | you sound like you saw the problem but just missed a step out |
| 20:36.31 | RST38h | Yea, it works! |
| 20:36.33 | Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: sounds good |
| 20:36.48 | RST38h | does not need some of these but the important thing is to set events BEFORE showing the widget |
| 20:37.14 | lcuk2 | ahh (i didnt mean all the event masks - it obviously needed just the ones you were interested in |
| 20:37.31 | lcuk2 | anyway, it worked \o/ |
| 20:38.32 | *** part/#maemo jordan_dev (i=jfrank8@agent22-ml.CS.McGill.CA) |
| 20:41.03 | RST38h | works beautifully - looks like johnx will get his wish after all |
| 20:46.35 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth_ (n=dforsyth@pool-71-178-172-163.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:47.14 | lcuk2 | RST38h, i thought the scaling was odd and not intuitive as well :P glad you managed it |
| 20:47.42 | lcuk2 | god ive gotta get some code done tonight |
| 20:48.09 | *** join/#maemo greentux (n=lemke@ip-90-187-30-61.web.vodafone.de) |
| 20:51.35 | *** join/#maemo LinuxCode (n=Titan@unaffiliated/linuxcode) |
| 20:55.31 | lcuk2 | does anyone know how slow bluetooth is, ie is it practical to allow local file sync between pairs of n8x0s in reasonable time? |
| 20:56.53 | *** join/#maemo christefano (n=christo@cpe-98-149-176-103.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 20:57.19 | LinuxCode | lcuk2, depends on chipset i believe |
| 20:57.38 | LinuxCode | what are you syncing ? |
| 20:57.42 | LinuxCode | and hi ;-} |
| 20:57.58 | lcuk2 | hiya lc, im thinking user info and recent sketches of registered people |
| 20:58.06 | lcuk2 | its a pain in the ass to pick up and draw on the wrong tablet |
| 20:58.10 | lcuk2 | i wanna autosync |
| 20:58.18 | Guysoft42 | hey, how do i tell gpe when the week starts? (its on sunday here,not monday) |
| 20:58.41 | LinuxCode | Guysoft42, never looked |
| 20:58.59 | LinuxCode | i might be wrong but im sure there was an option |
| 20:59.04 | lcuk2 | let each tablet build up its own media river, but then when it gets in range of its buddy it will sync |
| 20:59.08 | LinuxCode | might have been in evolution |
| 20:59.22 | LinuxCode | lcuk2, ahhh hmm |
| 20:59.37 | GeneralAntilles | Call it 120KB/sec |
| 20:59.37 | lcuk2 | lol |
| 21:00.11 | *** join/#maemo hannesw (n=hannes@chello062178166147.12.14.vie.surfer.at) |
| 21:00.28 | lcuk2 | thanks gen, i gather that going like the clappers will drain battery more than most |
| 21:00.39 | lcuk2 | might make the sync one way: downstream |
| 21:00.50 | GeneralAntilles | I've always wanted sync with FBReader |
| 21:00.54 | lcuk2 | have everything end up on one big desktop machine (then out onto the wider internet) |
| 21:01.06 | lcuk2 | heh GeneralAntilles :) book positions |
| 21:01.17 | lcuk2 | i had that between desktop and my pda |
| 21:01.23 | GeneralAntilles | I have a bunch of different devices I read them on |
| 21:01.27 | *** join/#maemo svu (n=svu@89.100.187.26) |
| 21:01.32 | GeneralAntilles | so just being able to pick up any one of them and go would be great. |
| 21:01.33 | lcuk2 | then threw it totally when i got the dead tree of the same book |
| 21:02.17 | lcuk2 | that actually sounds quite nice gen :) similar to what im thinking |
| 21:02.31 | GeneralAntilles | It wouldn't be terribly hard to implement |
| 21:02.39 | GeneralAntilles | I was actually considering doing it myself there for a while |
| 21:02.42 | lcuk2 | tick select folders/files |
| 21:02.47 | *** join/#maemo behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 21:02.48 | Stskeeps | would prefer a tablet being manifestation of taking my home along, o my work home |
| 21:03.01 | GeneralAntilles | cloud stuff |
| 21:03.12 | lcuk2 | cloud doesnt work though without internet |
| 21:03.22 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah |
| 21:03.23 | lcuk2 | and internet is not yet everywhere |
| 21:03.28 | lcuk2 | :( |
| 21:03.31 | GeneralAntilles | Until we have ubiquitous connectivity and very long battery life |
| 21:03.35 | lcuk2 | saves on battery at least |
| 21:03.43 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: cloud or cloud.. i believe in personal clouds |
| 21:03.46 | GeneralAntilles | Sync solutions are sorta halfway |
| 21:03.50 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth (n=dforsyth@pool-71-178-172-163.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:04.07 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk2, libconic will probably help. |
| 21:04.08 | lcuk2 | ewwwwwww Stskeeps, your personal cloud is green |
| 21:04.48 | Stskeeps | 's project once m-r works is to have a solution that probes his cellphone through AT commands which cell id it is in and reacts accordingily |
| 21:05.12 | GeneralAntilles | I'd really like to see a phonelink setup that actually works |
| 21:05.20 | GeneralAntilles | caller id popup |
| 21:05.25 | GeneralAntilles | Choose to answer the call through your tablet. |
| 21:05.50 | GeneralAntilles | Sorta like Skype or BluePhoneElite on OS X. |
| 21:06.05 | Stskeeps | so it starts looking for my work WLAN when i get close to it, log on to the municipality wlan when im near it .. etc |
| 21:06.59 | GeneralAntilles | Desktop applet that you can make calls, send and review texts and call logs with. |
| 21:07.25 | lcuk2 | pssst gen, thats called a phone |
| 21:07.40 | *** join/#maemo svu__ (n=svu@89.100.187.26) |
| 21:07.46 | GeneralAntilles | Well, the idea is so you don't have to take your phone out of your pocket. |
| 21:08.03 | lcuk2 | dont you have to to like answer it? |
| 21:08.07 | GeneralAntilles | Typing out a text on the tablet's keyboard is much easier than doing it on a phone keyboard. |
| 21:08.17 | lcuk2 | that i agree with |
| 21:08.23 | GeneralAntilles | The idea is to have the tablet act as a handsfree device. |
| 21:08.25 | lcuk2 | though my phone fecked that up major style |
| 21:08.33 | GeneralAntilles | So the phone routes calls through your tablet |
| 21:08.43 | lcuk2 | it has a computer link thing where i can send texts whilst its connected via bt |
| 21:08.57 | GeneralAntilles | Say you're eating lunch at a coffee shop browsing the web on your tablet |
| 21:09.00 | Stskeeps | i don't mind the thought of a bluetooth dongle that is a gsm device really.. |
| 21:09.01 | lcuk2 | but the stupid dumb flocking thing sends a text then sits with a dialog box on the phones screen |
| 21:09.07 | GeneralAntilles | call comes in and pops up a banner with caller id and the option to pick up. |
| 21:09.10 | lcuk2 | and wont do anything till i find the phone |
| 21:09.34 | lcuk2 | GeneralAntilles, just buy a smartphone/5800 |
| 21:09.35 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk2, you should be able to authorize the tablet from your phone. |
| 21:09.40 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk2, why? |
| 21:09.43 | GeneralAntilles | I already have the tablet |
| 21:09.44 | Guysoft42 | LinuxCode, do you have an idea? i see nothimg in the gui |
| 21:09.50 | GeneralAntilles | and the smartphone is still going to be in my pocket. |
| 21:09.55 | LinuxCode | Guysoft42, Im a tad busy atm |
| 21:09.57 | GeneralAntilles | Besides, the 5800 is $600 |
| 21:10.00 | LinuxCode | did you try applet settings ? |
| 21:11.12 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk2, anyway, the tablet interface is always going to be better than the phones interface |
| 21:11.13 | Guysoft42 | LinuxCode, yes, nothing.. i gtg to learn too, if anyone knows how to change the week PM me :-) |
| 21:11.28 | GeneralAntilles | It's like comparing the viewfinder on a pocket camera to a DSLR. |
| 21:12.33 | RST38h | General: Have you actually seen Nokia's phone sample lineup? |
| 21:12.49 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, you mean their current selection of phones? |
| 21:12.58 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: would you btw say that what the tablets are and the OS companion, is open platform, open device? |
| 21:13.13 | Stskeeps | open as in you can mess it up quite a lot on your own |
| 21:13.22 | GeneralAntilles | I would, yes. |
| 21:13.27 | GeneralAntilles | Especially considered in context. |
| 21:13.40 | Stskeeps | compared to android and iphone which are closed devices |
| 21:13.57 | GeneralAntilles | I mean, they're less open if you consider them in the desktop context. |
| 21:14.00 | moontiger | what 5800? |
| 21:14.12 | GeneralAntilles | But as you're dealing with non-commodity hardware in a mobile context. . . . |
| 21:14.24 | qwerty12_N800 | moontiger, nokia 5800. s60 touch screen phone |
| 21:14.34 | moontiger | ahhhhhhhhh i have a n79 ... love it |
| 21:14.35 | RST38h | General: No, somebody leaked their developer samples list |
| 21:14.42 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, oh, right. |
| 21:14.44 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, saw that. |
| 21:14.46 | GeneralAntilles | Don't care. |
| 21:14.50 | GeneralAntilles | Cellphones aren't my thing. |
| 21:14.50 | t_s_o | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2639 <- bah, i feared it... |
| 21:14.51 | RST38h | General: there are 640x480 and 800x480 models |
| 21:15.12 | RST38h | General: So, I wouldn't insist on smartphones never reaching tablets in the ui utility |
| 21:15.19 | qwerty12_N800 | moontiger, is that the one with dvb? |
| 21:15.29 | moontiger | dvb? |
| 21:15.49 | milhouse | i have an N85 - i find the email client on it is better than modest (and the email client on the N85 is very, very basic - but works) |
| 21:15.50 | RST38h | General: [and that is also why I said that I would prefer Maemo to S60 on these devices] |
| 21:15.55 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, a smartphone with a 4" screen is not a smartphone I will use. |
| 21:16.18 | GeneralAntilles | Anyway, those phones are way out of my price range. |
| 21:16.21 | RST38h | General: Why? It isn't prohibitively large |
| 21:16.37 | GeneralAntilles | I prefer a simple, small, thin clamshell design. |
| 21:16.41 | *** join/#maemo gomiam (n=magao@84.79.25.26) |
| 21:16.42 | RST38h | You would buy a $400 table but wouldn't buy a $400 phone? Hmm |
| 21:16.48 | RST38h | s/table/tablet/ |
| 21:16.56 | GeneralAntilles | That does 3 things: phonecalls, text and modem |
| 21:17.07 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, do you really wonder why? |
| 21:17.11 | RST38h | RAZR?!? |
| 21:17.13 | GeneralAntilles | I mean, _really_? |
| 21:17.16 | GeneralAntilles | That seems really clear to me. |
| 21:17.26 | GeneralAntilles | http://images.google.com/images?ie=UTF-8&oe=utf8&q=sgh-a717&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi |
| 21:17.30 | RST38h | Yes because ideology aside, I would rather carry 1 device than 3 |
| 21:17.45 | GeneralAntilles | Not when that one device gets fucked by cellular carries. |
| 21:17.55 | GeneralAntilles | You see what fun it causes for Android. |
| 21:18.01 | GeneralAntilles | The same will happen for Maemo. |
| 21:18.15 | RST38h | General: Yes, but you can bring your own device even to an american carrier |
| 21:18.16 | GeneralAntilles | I don't like the idea of carrying around a $600 phone all the time. |
| 21:18.21 | moontiger | qwerty12_N800, im not sure about dvb but it totally rocks as a smaretfone |
| 21:18.22 | GeneralAntilles | There are situations where I don't want my tablet with me |
| 21:18.22 | RST38h | No need to buy subsidized crap |
| 21:18.29 | GeneralAntilles | and I'd rather have a phone that I can afford to replace. |
| 21:18.41 | RST38h | ok, this one is valid indeed |
| 21:18.42 | GeneralAntilles | What is a "fone"? |
| 21:18.44 | glass_ | how about a sub 200$ smartphone then |
| 21:18.55 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: maemo would fall apart if it had to be a closed device, imho |
| 21:18.59 | qwerty12_N800 | moontiger, :) |
| 21:19.01 | lcuk2 | GeneralAntilles, yeah - you might drop your n800 whilst poledancing |
| 21:19.15 | Stskeeps | so many things are easier for developers cos of the open device strategy |
| 21:19.23 | milhouse | hmmmm |
| 21:19.25 | moontiger | qwerty12_N800, it geo tags piccies and has an awesome camera |
| 21:19.30 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf_ (n=hellwolf@a83-132-28-51.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 21:19.40 | moontiger | so im updating my website to process gps exif tags on pics :) |
| 21:19.45 | milhouse | stskeeps: maybe not in nokia-land |
| 21:20.20 | Stskeeps | we have one example of carrier tablets, don't we? the singtel ones? |
| 21:21.32 | GeneralAntilles | milhouse, related to the applet bug: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24926&page=4 |
| 21:23.29 | milhouse | thanks - seems pertinent, i'll have a read. |
| 21:23.38 | milhouse | i guess i'm not alone :) |
| 21:23.54 | GeneralAntilles | milhouse, yeah, it is a bit insane. |
| 21:24.04 | GeneralAntilles | But the change seems to be that we're actually getting WONTFIX responses |
| 21:24.10 | GeneralAntilles | rather than getting no response at all |
| 21:24.26 | GeneralAntilles | Which means that the next step is them paying attention before the window of opportunity for getting bugs fixed closes. |
| 21:24.27 | milhouse | when the Android "reboot" bug appeared and Google released a patch within a few days I did think how long it would have taken Nokia - 6 months to never? |
| 21:24.52 | t_s_o | the community would probably have rolled out some laternate initfs by then... |
| 21:25.01 | milhouse | One outfit does it right, then there's Nokia ... |
| 21:25.04 | GeneralAntilles | milhouse, the last critical crasher bug was the Modest one |
| 21:25.11 | GeneralAntilles | Which they releases 30-2 specifically for |
| 21:25.13 | GeneralAntilles | it took about 1 month. |
| 21:25.26 | milhouse | What about the bug with Modest which causes it to hang every other day? |
| 21:25.33 | andre__ | GeneralAntilles: Hey, you understood the definition of "FIXED"! :-P Just kidding, got too many rants today... |
| 21:25.39 | milhouse | No fix yet, no sign of a fix, may never be fixed - renders Modest _useless_ |
| 21:25.48 | andre__ | milhouse, bug number? |
| 21:25.56 | GeneralAntilles | milhouse, I'm fairly certain the fix is in week 40 or so |
| 21:26.01 | GeneralAntilles | So should be out with the next SSU. |
| 21:26.19 | milhouse | i'm sure it is, apparently we're waiting on other stuff - absolutely nuts. hang on andre, looking it up for ya... |
| 21:26.38 | milhouse | 3641 |
| 21:27.01 | andre__ | see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3641#c26 |
| 21:27.20 | milhouse | no good to me |
| 21:27.21 | andre__ | modest 1.0-2008.38-1, and 38 is the week number |
| 21:27.27 | milhouse | how do i get that fix? |
| 21:27.40 | milhouse | do i need to be on a special invite list? ;) |
| 21:27.42 | andre__ | a) wait b) compile from source |
| 21:27.52 | andre__ | heh. i don't have that fix either |
| 21:27.57 | milhouse | i'm a waiter - as are most of nokias customers |
| 21:27.59 | Stskeeps | oh -thats- what that part is |
| 21:28.07 | Stskeeps | .. |
| 21:28.11 | GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, lol? |
| 21:28.23 | GeneralAntilles | release.year.week#-build# |
| 21:28.34 | Stskeeps | yeah, - i don't usually use weeks in my thinking |
| 21:28.36 | Stskeeps | i think in dates |
| 21:28.50 | andre__ | company always think in weeks. they make me nervous :-P |
| 21:28.52 | GeneralAntilles | Neither did I |
| 21:28.57 | GeneralAntilles | Until Maemo. ;) |
| 21:29.32 | milhouse | what would be nice if I could have some idea when a fix was coming... why are schedules so secret? daft really. |
| 21:29.51 | milhouse | and by coming i meant when the next ssu was scheduled |
| 21:30.03 | GeneralAntilles | Fremantle's bringing alpha and beta releases for the SDK |
| 21:30.12 | GeneralAntilles | and likely beta releases for the OS, too. |
| 21:30.57 | milhouse | i'll believe it when i see it |
| 21:31.43 | milhouse | (sorry, been a passenger on the good ship Nokia for faaaar too long!) |
| 21:31.51 | andre__ | milhouse, i sometimes think schedules are secret because some engineers fail in 80% of the schedules to keep the given deadlines ;-) |
| 21:31.59 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth_ (n=dforsyth@pool-71-178-203-235.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:32.05 | Stskeeps | ponders how many in here has been along since 770 got released |
| 21:32.10 | GeneralAntilles | milhouse, catch up on the lists like I told you. :P |
| 21:32.13 | GeneralAntilles | has. |
| 21:32.40 | GeneralAntilles | You'll know the early 770 owners by the bile they spew. ;) |
| 21:32.42 | milhouse | andre: i am a project manager... deadlines slip, but you can still announce them and people will accept a degree of slip |
| 21:32.47 | *** join/#maemo L0cutus (n=L0cutus@94.161.44.204) |
| 21:33.19 | andre__ | milhouse, yes, people. but it might be interesting info for competitors |
| 21:33.22 | milhouse | GAN: I know... busy times right now. just been away on a training course which gave me an oppurtunity to love/hate my n810 in a hotel room :) |
| 21:33.24 | andre__ | i don't know, i also can just guess |
| 21:33.45 | milhouse | andre: really? competitors care when nokia will be fixing their product? :) |
| 21:34.11 | andre__ | the project i maintain(ed) has fixed deadlines. we deliver the product since years on the day promised months ago. howevere the quality often differs ;-) |
| 21:34.27 | milhouse | andre: we're not talking about new functionality here, just fixing stuff that doesn't work |
| 21:34.36 | Stskeeps | has a fonera router he takes along to hotels (flashed firmware ofcourse with dd-wrt), so he can hook up or amplifywifi nets :P |
| 21:34.42 | Stskeeps | after a horrid experience in hong kong |
| 21:35.03 | andre__ | milhouse, well, i won't defend nokia here, from my POV it sucks too, so i'll just agree with you :) |
| 21:35.10 | milhouse | :) |
| 21:35.32 | andre__ | i just try to understand them sometimes. "try". |
| 21:35.35 | milhouse | oh btw, if i go into one on bugzilla, ranting and raving, please don't take it personally - i know you're in a shitty position |
| 21:36.11 | milhouse | but as an end user/paying customer/advocate of what-could-be it does annoy me what goes on... |
| 21:36.22 | milhouse | or rather, doesn't. :) |
| 21:37.16 | andre__ | milhouse, who are you in BZ? bugzilla770 at nmacleod? didn't know before :) |
| 21:37.36 | GeneralAntilles | Nokia's secret plan in hiring andre__ was for him to take the heat so they don't have to. ;) |
| 21:37.37 | andre__ | tries to manage dozens of nick to names to faces links but often fails |
| 21:37.39 | GeneralAntilles | flameshield |
| 21:37.40 | milhouse | bugzilla770 |
| 21:38.01 | andre__ | yeehah! :) cool, nice |
| 21:38.06 | GeneralAntilles | andre__, he was basically bugmaster before you came along. |
| 21:38.20 | andre__ | yeah, he read and commented on a lot of bugs |
| 21:38.24 | milhouse | andre: i own my own domain so tend to use email addresses that alert me to anyone that gives my details away to spammers... :) |
| 21:38.27 | andre__ | and i'm really thankful for that |
| 21:39.12 | milhouse | i was highly motivated back then - not so much now :( |
| 21:39.13 | andre__ | naah, i normally don't take it personally. i've had about four other rants today too. you get used to it after all these years... |
| 21:39.42 | andre__ | i can totally understand that. i also have a kind of love-hate relation with other projects i work(ed) on/with |
| 21:40.29 | andre__ | GeneralAntilles, i kind of agree |
| 21:40.37 | milhouse | Mind you i had a Canuck telling me my post was apathetic and resigned drivel - shocked i was, SHOCKED! ;) |
| 21:40.38 | andre__ | "flameshield" |
| 21:40.53 | andre__ | heh |
| 21:41.14 | andre__ | tension can be quite useful |
| 21:41.30 | milhouse | andre: at least it shows people care... |
| 21:41.32 | andre__ | remembers the best and most offensive bug reports he read |
| 21:41.33 | lcuk2 | especially around your underpants |
| 21:41.42 | lcuk2 | once had saggy elastic |
| 21:41.49 | andre__ | rrrr! more tea vicar! |
| 21:42.36 | lcuk2 | \o/ yesssssss i brought it to a standstill |
| 21:42.42 | lcuk2 | sorry, carry on lol |
| 21:43.04 | andre__ | GeneralAntilles, i think i had it twice that nokians send me an email, asking me to comment on behalf of them. but i don't think they were afraid of rants, more because their comments were not something that should be seen "official" |
| 21:43.13 | andre__ | on the other hand, it was "only" two times so far |
| 21:43.22 | *** join/#maemo setanta (n=setanta@200.184.118.132) |
| 21:43.27 | andre__ | moving slowly... |
| 21:43.40 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 21:43.56 | GeneralAntilles | The corporate mentality has to change before we make any real progress. |
| 21:44.09 | GeneralAntilles | If the managers and executives aren't behind the idea, there's no way the engineers will ever be. . . . |
| 21:44.17 | andre__ | well, as i told you - it differs from division to division |
| 21:44.40 | andre__ | some are used to work more openly, some need more time to understand the advantages |
| 21:45.46 | lcuk2 | andre__, that same effect occurs with single developers as well |
| 21:45.52 | Stskeeps | ponders what the next bug to push from m-r to bugs.maemo |
| 21:46.56 | lcuk2 | so within a team you can have members who are happy to work from public svn and push every 2 minutes, and others who huddle and commit only when finished. thats been the way forever |
| 21:47.46 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: worst/best part about m-r is so far, there hasn't been 100% showstoppers |
| 21:47.50 | andre__ | lcuk2, yeah. but if you don't have "fresh" people in your team that have already worked in open source communities, but instead are only used to the closed way |
| 21:48.11 | andre__ | lcuk2, as i said: when i had an error management meeting i asked the managers who had worked with OS communities before |
| 21:48.13 | Stskeeps | there's been difficulties but not something where we had to give up on an avenue |
| 21:48.24 | andre__ | it was less than 15%. most people came from the s60 series |
| 21:48.26 | lcuk2 | yes, coming to maemo "green" from deep within nokia would be a culture shock i agree |
| 21:48.33 | andre__ | exactly |
| 21:48.43 | milhouse | andre: I bet they were glad to get rid of them |
| 21:49.05 | milhouse | andre: Now the S60/Symbian guys are probably hiring open source developers like mad... :) |
| 21:49.19 | andre__ | it was interesting to see how novell managed the "imported" open source culture this after they bought suse and ximian |
| 21:49.27 | *** join/#maemo datachaos (n=datachao@189.63.131.223) |
| 21:50.32 | milhouse | It will be interesting to see what, if anything, Nokia has learned from Maemo when it rolls out Symbian to the open source communities, and what Trolltech can bring to the party |
| 21:51.06 | milhouse | I don't hold out high hopes, unfortunately (God I'm getting too cynical in my old age... :( ) |
| 21:51.22 | lcuk2 | andre__, i work in a closed source shock, my current boss and colleagues is appalled at the idea that I have created and given away my code |
| 21:51.32 | lcuk2 | are ^ |
| 21:52.21 | milhouse | shock? is it permanent? |
| 21:52.29 | andre__ | milhouse, as long as trolltech is a totally seperate entity it won't change culture. if you really have to integrate them, well... |
| 21:52.30 | lcuk2 | lol |
| 21:52.33 | lcuk2 | for them yeah ;) |
| 21:52.54 | milhouse | andre: hopefully that can bring some knowledge/advice... |
| 21:53.07 | milhouse | infiltrate the rest of Nokia |
| 21:53.17 | milhouse | ideas, best practice etc. |
| 21:53.21 | GeneralAntilles | I was somewhat encouraged by Quim's comment on itT that the Maemo Community has made some waves in Nokia. |
| 21:53.52 | lcuk2 | we need to make more than waves :) |
| 21:54.09 | milhouse | tsunamis |
| 21:54.20 | GeneralAntilles | Actually, andre__, that's an interesting question |
| 21:54.35 | GeneralAntilles | if the non-locking applets bothers so many people so intensely, why don't they just patch it? |
| 21:54.38 | lcuk2 | so far i fear the size of waves are measured on a fart in the bathtub scale |
| 21:54.48 | *** join/#maemo data|2 (n=datachao@189.63.131.223) |
| 21:55.09 | lcuk2 | (very fragrant waves i might add) |
| 21:55.36 | andre__ | GeneralAntilles, yupp - JFDI (if you have access to the code, patch it and share the patch, and let's try to get it officially included) |
| 21:55.41 | milhouse | GAN: If someone supplies a patch, would Nokia be willing to push it out in an SSU? It seems a bit "not invented here" to not accept the patch |
| 21:55.59 | GeneralAntilles | milhouse, it depends on the product team. |
| 21:56.00 | andre__ | GeneralAntilles, I think especially Maemo Summit has made some waves in Nokia |
| 21:56.05 | GeneralAntilles | I dunno for desktop. |
| 21:56.11 | GeneralAntilles | Definitely 100% for h-a-m |
| 21:56.14 | lcuk2 | +1 for the summit andre :) |
| 21:56.26 | andre__ | as i said, desktop is already in a "only major and critical issues" state |
| 21:56.38 | andre__ | i managed to get one non-critical fix in in the last weeks :-/ |
| 21:56.48 | GeneralAntilles | Which is really frustrating |
| 21:56.58 | GeneralAntilles | Especially when there's trivial stuff with patches included. |
| 21:57.02 | andre__ | well, desktop is the first thing they started with for Fremantle |
| 21:57.06 | andre__ | (i think) |
| 21:57.19 | milhouse | Quite right too... |
| 21:57.32 | andre__ | well - probably some architecture plans before that, but at least that was my impression, |
| 21:57.48 | andre__ | or maybe the other teams just didn't tell me explicitly that they have in fact moved on too... |
| 21:57.48 | GeneralAntilles | If desktop doesn't have enough people to process trivial bugs, then clearly Nokia needs to start hiring. |
| 21:57.49 | milhouse | don't be so sure about that... ;) |
| 21:58.00 | Stskeeps | ponders why on earth libgpsbt went from being open source to closed source |
| 21:58.35 | qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, nokia came to their senses of course! |
| 21:58.44 | GeneralAntilles | It'd be less bothersome if Fremantle were being released for OMAP2 hardware |
| 21:59.05 | GeneralAntilles | or if the bugs hadn't stagnated for freaking ever |
| 21:59.07 | milhouse | it is, isn't it? |
| 21:59.14 | andre__ | nobody knows, not even i. i think nokia also doesn't know |
| 21:59.21 | milhouse | i thought we were promised 2 more releases on N8x0? |
| 21:59.31 | GeneralAntilles | milhouse, don't get me started on the excuses that are going to pop up for that. |
| 21:59.35 | milhouse | up to elephanta (or somethingh until it was renamed) |
| 21:59.35 | andre__ | milhouse, i think so |
| 21:59.40 | GeneralAntilles | During the Summit, the excuse was that Diablo was the second release. |
| 21:59.52 | GeneralAntilles | Which is such a bogus excuse I'd've stabbed that Nokian in the eye if I were there. |
| 22:00.11 | andre__ | there will be another SSU for diablo. maybe even two. honestly, i don't know, but i've heard rumours |
| 22:00.11 | milhouse | If that bombshell drops ITt will fall off the face of the earth |
| 22:00.16 | GeneralAntilles | The reality is that Fremantle may just not be able to run on OMAP2 hardware. |
| 22:00.23 | lcuk2 | dont shoot the messenger GeneralAntilles, how do you know its the same lead thats there now as who said that originally |
| 22:00.25 | qwerty12_N800 | gives 2 fingers to the inventor of that excuse. Stupid bellend. |
| 22:00.49 | milhouse | GAN: Bogus? You put it mildly sir! ;) |
| 22:01.00 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk2, he deserves to be shot for giving it out with a straight face while not at gunpoint. |
| 22:01.21 | *** join/#maemo Andy80 (n=andy80@host203-207-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 22:01.41 | lcuk2 | think about it GeneralAntilles the guy could have honestly meant it at the time, but now its like "oh shit" - kind like running out of doctor who transformations |
| 22:02.09 | Andy80 | what package I'm missing in Scratchbox if I get this error starting a Python/GTK application: ImportError: No module named gtk |
| 22:02.10 | Andy80 | ? |
| 22:02.31 | milhouse | Maybe Fremantle won't run on N8x0 in the same way that it was impossible to get OS2007 to work on 770... |
| 22:02.43 | *** join/#maemo behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 22:02.43 | GeneralAntilles | Who else thinks the reason Nokia is delaying the DSME source release is so my anger dies down about them moving code into MCE? <_< |
| 22:02.50 | lcuk2 | andy80 pygtk? |
| 22:02.51 | GeneralAntilles | milhouse, Clutter |
| 22:02.57 | GeneralAntilles | Totally new media framework |
| 22:03.08 | GeneralAntilles | OMAP3 is fucking lightyears ahead of OMAP2 |
| 22:03.22 | milhouse | yah... they might be right this time :) |
| 22:03.24 | GeneralAntilles | Not even close to the jump from OMAP1 to OMAP2 |
| 22:03.27 | Andy80 | lcuk2: yes, but what is the exact package name? |
| 22:03.31 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: should come soon according to qgil :P |
| 22:03.34 | milhouse | assuming they use all it's goodies of course! |
| 22:03.36 | qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles, I hope the rtcomm guy "helps" us out again re mce... |
| 22:03.51 | GeneralAntilles | milhouse, they will. |
| 22:04.04 | milhouse | GAN: what makes you so sure? |
| 22:04.05 | lcuk2 | Andy80, at your console type apt-cache search pygtk |
| 22:04.06 | GeneralAntilles | DSP will be used for video decoding |
| 22:04.10 | GeneralAntilles | there will be 3D drivers. |
| 22:04.15 | GeneralAntilles | milhouse, they said so at the Summit. |
| 22:04.16 | lcuk2 | it will list matching packages, see which jumps out |
| 22:04.25 | lcuk2 | dsp video? |
| 22:04.29 | milhouse | GAN: Sweet... i'll cross my fingers... |
| 22:04.39 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk2, the IVA2 is a little different from the IVA |
| 22:04.51 | lcuk2 | yeah, but its wrong to say its dsp |
| 22:04.55 | Andy80 | lcuk2: they're all installed |
| 22:05.04 | lcuk2 | dunno then andy |
| 22:05.13 | milhouse | I think if/when it becomes official that Fremantle won't run on N8x0 hardware then Nokia have a duty of care to release everything possible to allow community support... |
| 22:05.27 | lcuk2 | theres no saying its NOT possible yet |
| 22:05.37 | lcuk2 | theres options for 3d on this device still |
| 22:05.37 | milhouse | ok if if if |
| 22:05.37 | Stskeeps | MCE is replacable. DSME is replacable. |
| 22:05.43 | GeneralAntilles | milhouse, well, we've got open source wlan drivers. |
| 22:05.44 | lcuk2 | maybe not 800*480 but i think its possible |
| 22:05.50 | GeneralAntilles | So we're not stuck with an old kernel |
| 22:06.02 | milhouse | GAN: Woohoo! :) But that's just for starters, right? |
| 22:06.21 | Stskeeps | milhouse: i'm able to replicate a horridly lot of maemo functionality so far |
| 22:06.22 | GeneralAntilles | The kernel is really the nastiest hurdle. |
| 22:06.41 | GeneralAntilles | Everything else is either non-critical or has open source equivalents. |
| 22:06.52 | lcuk2 | bbl |
| 22:07.04 | milhouse | What happened to BME? |
| 22:07.16 | qwerty12_N800 | still exists |
| 22:07.31 | Stskeeps | is a hald addon now really |
| 22:07.31 | milhouse | is that open sourced know or are we still having to guess what it does? |
| 22:07.33 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk2, the C64x is a DSP |
| 22:07.38 | Stskeeps | the communication part, that is |
| 22:07.39 | milhouse | s/know/now |
| 22:08.07 | Stskeeps | with FTD it will take a determined person a couple of days to reveal entire BME status, really |
| 22:08.46 | Stskeeps | but let's see how nokia will act regarding fremantle :P |
| 22:08.59 | milhouse | yeah, everyone (from Nokia) keeps saying it's really simple to reverse engineer it - if it's that simple, why do we have to? don't make us beg, jump through hoops... |
| 22:09.15 | GeneralAntilles | Ha |
| 22:09.19 | Stskeeps | bme i can understand why they don't want us fiddling with, though |
| 22:09.24 | *** join/#maemo zakkm (n=zak@CPE0004e28fe18c-CM0011e6c4092f.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 22:09.25 | GeneralAntilles | Kaboom |
| 22:09.47 | zakkm | is jonx or Stskeeps here? |
| 22:09.49 | Stskeeps | but publishing interfaces to get current power usage, battery level, etc, should be enough |
| 22:09.50 | milhouse | all the more reason may be to give us the details? :) someone will work it out eventually, if it really is that simple |
| 22:09.53 | Stskeeps | zakkm: .. i'm around |
| 22:09.54 | lcuk2 | you arent called the General for nothing gen :) you are right of course, i thought the ISP was used for vid decoding http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12643&contentId=14649 |
| 22:10.08 | zakkm | oh Stskeeps: did you want the "server"? |
| 22:10.13 | zakkm | would it help? |
| 22:10.31 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk2, ISP is for the camera (up to 12MP) |
| 22:10.31 | zakkm | lcuk2: why is liqbase camera .. upside down? |
| 22:10.32 | Stskeeps | zakkm: sure, - right now im compiling somewhere im not really supposed to :P |
| 22:10.36 | GeneralAntilles | So, you're more or less correct. ;) |
| 22:10.49 | milhouse | IVA on OMAP2 is for video acceleration, but not used. |
| 22:11.02 | lcuk2 | zakkm, cos i had a locked camera n810 and didnt realise there was anything needed in code to do |
| 22:11.05 | zakkm | Stskeeps: Is it just debian + ssh ? |
| 22:11.12 | lcuk2 | it will be fixed for the next release |
| 22:11.21 | Stskeeps | zakkm: ubuntu server is probably best |
| 22:11.28 | Stskeeps | as we develop on a ubuntu base |
| 22:11.29 | zakkm | lcuk2: ah okay, my friends in drama class ( grade 12 - highschool ) was like wtf why is it upside down |
| 22:11.31 | lcuk2 | GeneralAntilles, yeah i see |
| 22:11.38 | zakkm | oh i think that somewhere |
| 22:11.42 | zakkm | would be 7.04 |
| 22:11.57 | lcuk2 | zakkm, did you (and them) like it |
| 22:11.58 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk2, bringing the IVA and DSP together is likely to increase the usage |
| 22:12.05 | lcuk2 | yeah no doubt |
| 22:12.07 | Stskeeps | milhouse: if we actually get something about of seperating the maemo from the hw support, and establishing a core platform which we -then- place hw support on top of.. then things look a lot different |
| 22:12.10 | GeneralAntilles | I'm not sure ANYTHING uses the IVA on OMAP2 |
| 22:12.13 | zakkm | yeah, the normal camera app freezes my nokia ;p |
| 22:12.16 | GeneralAntilles | It's hard enough to get the DSP to do useful things. |
| 22:12.19 | zakkm | also, why is it tiled? |
| 22:12.22 | lcuk2 | no, but it has RGB->YUV locked up inside it |
| 22:12.42 | lcuk2 | i wanted to use it as a pathway from the PVR output plane into the memory for sending to LCD |
| 22:12.56 | lcuk2 | to maintain nice fast all hardware pipeline |
| 22:12.57 | *** join/#maemo JamieBennett (n=JamieBen@5ad153dd.bb.sky.com) |
| 22:13.22 | milhouse | i do hope the video on the next device isn't as fcked up as the last one |
| 22:13.43 | Stskeeps | milhouse: then ideally all nokia would have to do is support their binary blobs and just rebuild the images.. but we'll see :P |
| 22:13.44 | lcuk2 | its the sensor quality which lets it down |
| 22:14.00 | milhouse | lcuk: and the video bandwidth (or lack of) |
| 22:14.01 | lcuk2 | in liqbase i desaturate every image by 50% to try to reduce the snow |
| 22:14.18 | zakkm | is this OMAP3430 the one in the nokia n800? |
| 22:14.25 | lcuk2 | my dedicated camera has trouble showing live 640*480 video feeds its just recorded |
| 22:14.42 | milhouse | lcuk: but deffo agree on the sensor quality... I had a look at an iPhone the other day, I gave it back and sobbed gently to myself (nobody saw so that's ok) |
| 22:14.57 | GeneralAntilles | milhouse, OMAP3 can decode 720p without issue just with NEON optimizations. |
| 22:15.13 | GeneralAntilles | zakkm, the N8x0 has an OMAP2420 |
| 22:15.17 | zakkm | oh |
| 22:15.20 | lcuk2 | milhouse, i've pushed as hard as i can re the camera and people all appeared to agree that a better camera will be included |
| 22:15.28 | milhouse | GAN: that'll be nice, maybe the new device will have video out like my N85 (composite output via a 3.5mm headphone socket) |
| 22:15.34 | zakkm | does this opengl fremantle is suppose to bring, work on the n800? |
| 22:15.37 | *** join/#maemo baddu (n=salko@e212-246-64-184.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 22:15.41 | lcuk2 | nobody knows |
| 22:15.41 | zakkm | or is it referring to the new nokia model |
| 22:15.45 | GeneralAntilles | milhouse, it's got a whole 640x480 framebuffer just for video out. |
| 22:15.49 | GeneralAntilles | Hopefully Nokia hooks it up to something. |
| 22:15.52 | JamieBennett | zakkm: The omap2 and omap3 are leagues apart when it comes to media |
| 22:15.58 | Andy80 | lcuk2: now it works... I simply was using python instead of python2.5 |
| 22:16.03 | *** join/#maemo Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 22:16.35 | Andy80 | another question: what's wrong if I'm not able to connect to internet from inside the Maemo running on Xephyr? |
| 22:16.51 | milhouse | GAN: 640x480 - the new device? |
| 22:16.52 | lcuk2 | i dunno, i dont design on fake incomplete hardware |
| 22:16.58 | Stskeeps | Andy80: probably resolv.conf not right |
| 22:16.59 | GeneralAntilles | milhouse, OMAP3 |
| 22:17.07 | lcuk2 | its a touch device, i write touch software, im not going to use a mouse to test it |
| 22:17.15 | GeneralAntilles | Two framebuffers, the main one is 1024x768, the secondary is 640x480 |
| 22:17.22 | Andy80 | Stskeeps: but.... for example wget from Scratchbox command line works fine |
| 22:17.22 | milhouse | GAN: What would be better, of course, would be 720p but that would require another socket of some kind on the device. |
| 22:17.35 | GeneralAntilles | and another controller. |
| 22:17.37 | zakkm | lol |
| 22:17.39 | milhouse | GAN: Can the OMAP3 output 720p ? |
| 22:17.48 | JamieBennett | milhouse: yes |
| 22:17.50 | GeneralAntilles | 1024x768 on the primary framebuffer |
| 22:17.51 | zakkm | 720p .. huge filesize, how big are your SD cards? :P |
| 22:17.51 | GeneralAntilles | So, no. |
| 22:18.11 | lcuk2 | zakkm, compression and networks |
| 22:18.19 | GeneralAntilles | Although if you get deep enough hooks you could probably play with the timings to squeeze a little more out |
| 22:18.23 | GeneralAntilles | but, uh, no guarantees. |
| 22:18.25 | milhouse | zakkm: 8gb microSD, 16gb SD... |
| 22:18.33 | JamieBennett | generalantilles: 720p is possible on beagle or do you know something I don't |
| 22:18.44 | GeneralAntilles | JamieBennett, display resolution output? |
| 22:18.48 | GeneralAntilles | Not decoding. |
| 22:18.49 | JamieBennett | yup |
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| 22:19.19 | GeneralAntilles | http://groups.google.com/group/beagleboard/browse_thread/thread/fb5b422846e1933d?pli=1 |
| 22:19.26 | JamieBennett | maybe wires crossed are we talking black bars? |
| 22:19.28 | milhouse | GAN: 720p video out would be icing on the cake but not essential (for me) - as long as the primary video is spot on and not flawed by poor design that's all that matters to me. |
| 22:20.11 | milhouse | GAN: I'm sure the IVA/IVA2 in OMAP2 is capable of decoding DVD resolution, would have expected the OMAP3 to have pushed that to at least 720p |
| 22:20.17 | GeneralAntilles | Anyway, there's basically no chance of Nokia wiring it up that way. |
| 22:20.23 | GeneralAntilles | An HDMI port simply wouldn't fit on the device |
| 22:20.26 | JamieBennett | is reading |
| 22:20.33 | GeneralAntilles | and it's totally not in their target audience's use-case. |
| 22:20.52 | GeneralAntilles | milhouse, I don't think anybody has utilized the DSP yet for video decoding. |
| 22:20.56 | milhouse | GAN: There must be some sort of "miniHDMI" coming - what do Archos do? |
| 22:20.59 | GeneralAntilles | NEON is just SIMD on the Cortex. |
| 22:21.08 | GeneralAntilles | milhouse, bigger device, proprietary docking port. |
| 22:21.37 | JamieBennett | or Displayport (me ducks!) |
| 22:21.38 | milhouse | I'd actually like it to have a docking port - easy charging + video in one dock would work for me. |
| 22:22.12 | milhouse | Maybe even replicate USB, keyboard/mouse etc.... my ideal would be for these things to become desktop substitutes |
| 22:22.18 | *** join/#maemo dforsyth (n=dforsyth@pool-71-178-203-235.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:22.18 | GeneralAntilles | I still can't get over this http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=242727 |
| 22:23.48 | milhouse | Fair answer - needs a shave though |
| 22:23.55 | JamieBennett | GeneralAntilles: As with all software, the larger the project the more bugs |
| 22:24.38 | GeneralAntilles | I should update my avatar |
| 22:24.46 | milhouse | :) |
| 22:25.32 | JamieBennett | GeneralAntilles: It should be number of bigs/number of users |
| 22:25.40 | JamieBennett | bugs :) |
| 22:25.45 | GeneralAntilles | JamieBennett, that doesn't tell you anything, either. |
| 22:26.01 | GeneralAntilles | Only the bug-filing proclivity of a particular product's userbase. |
| 22:26.26 | GeneralAntilles | OK, new avatar uploaded |
| 22:26.37 | JamieBennett | GeneralAntilles: So the answer is ... |
| 22:26.47 | GeneralAntilles | Let's see if the change in demeanor changes people's responses to me. :D |
| 22:26.50 | milhouse | that's so much better! ;) |
| 22:26.55 | GeneralAntilles | Ahaha |
| 22:26.58 | GeneralAntilles | That cracks me up. |
| 22:27.01 | milhouse | the scowl has been banished! |
| 22:27.13 | GeneralAntilles | Scowl -> goofy grin |
| 22:27.23 | GeneralAntilles | I look like such a wanker |
| 22:27.27 | lcuk2 | omg gen, you finally got laid then i see |
| 22:27.30 | JamieBennett | still need a shave ;) |
| 22:27.32 | GeneralAntilles | Ahahaha |
| 22:27.40 | GeneralAntilles | JamieBennett, I was considering it a few weeks ago |
| 22:27.45 | GeneralAntilles | but then winter came on. |
| 22:27.48 | JamieBennett | :) |
| 22:28.11 | GeneralAntilles | Imma start growing it out into a scarf in preparation for next year. ;) |
| 22:28.18 | zakkm | Hi , sorry, before i bought my nokia n800, i saw an app that looked identical and functioned just like a TI-83? calculator, but i couldnt find the program again since |
| 22:28.28 | zakkm | anyone happen to know and willing to share the name |
| 22:28.55 | GeneralAntilles | Oh, man, lcuk2, I'm still laughing. |
| 22:29.07 | lcuk2 | zakkm, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=229611 try this |
| 22:29.08 | GeneralAntilles | hits the back button to compare. |
| 22:29.10 | milhouse | zakkm: there was an HP calculator app |
| 22:29.16 | zakkm | yeah i think thats it |
| 22:29.26 | JamieBennett | thinks lcuk2 has a 'condition' ;) |
| 22:29.45 | lcuk2 | yeah, writers block |
| 22:29.47 | milhouse | try googleing for "maemo hp calculator" should be the first few hits |
| 22:29.57 | milhouse | dunno if any links actually work, mind |
| 22:30.32 | zakkm | thats a free42 |
| 22:30.33 | milhouse | here's the link for OS2008: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/free42/ |
| 22:30.33 | GeneralAntilles | If I get interesting results from this I may have to write up a paper on an avatars demeanor's effect on user reactions in internet forums. |
| 22:30.44 | zakkm | looking for a TI-83/84 |
| 22:30.59 | milhouse | zakkm: ah right, sorry |
| 22:31.10 | zakkm | oh there we go lol |
| 22:31.11 | zakkm | found it |
| 22:31.22 | GeneralAntilles | It was slow last time I tried it. :( |
| 22:31.24 | zakkm | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/tiemu2/ |
| 22:31.29 | GeneralAntilles | likes his TI-89 |
| 22:31.40 | zakkm | oh Ti89/92 |
| 22:31.45 | zakkm | its slow? |
| 22:31.56 | andre__ | i can offer a TI-92 |
| 22:32.13 | lcuk2 | any advance on ti-92, going once |
| 22:32.18 | lcuk2 | going twice |
| 22:32.23 | zakkm | $1! |
| 22:32.33 | lcuk2 | sold! |
| 22:32.46 | andre__ | whoops |
| 22:32.51 | lcuk2 | ok thats as cheesy as GeneralAntilles's grin |
| 22:32.52 | GeneralAntilles | We had so much fun with the TI-83 in middle school |
| 22:33.22 | GeneralAntilles | Somebody reprogrammed a monster fighting game with the names of all of the teachers one time. <_< |
| 22:33.28 | lcuk2 | http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/startrek/ |
| 22:33.30 | Juhaz | puny toys, go HP-48! |
| 22:33.38 | zakkm | oh, how come i cant get rtcomm ? |
| 22:33.47 | zakkm | missing dependencies |
| 22:34.13 | zakkm | is there a rtcomm repository or something |
| 22:34.14 | *** join/#maemo disq (n=hede@84.16.227.90) |
| 22:35.07 | JamieBennett | why does canola clean up also remove carman? |
| 22:35.13 | GeneralAntilles | Does it? |
| 22:35.19 | andre__ | zakkm, yepp: Collabora |
| 22:35.33 | GeneralAntilles | Wishes Nokia would get the rtcomm stuff into Extras-devel already. |
| 22:35.35 | andre__ | http://pacakges.collabora.co.uk/maemo |
| 22:35.40 | milhouse | I had one of these when I was at school! :) http://www.datamath.org/Related/Casio/fx-7000G.htm |
| 22:35.44 | andre__ | remove the typo first, though |
| 22:36.00 | JamieBennett | installed carman, installed canola clean up, ran canola cleanup, installed canola, no carman |
| 22:36.01 | zakkm | wonders if hes the only one here still in school ( highschool that is ) |
| 22:36.11 | lcuk2 | omg + star trek trailer |
| 22:36.16 | jagernot | once again i appear with my audio synth for your perusal...features in this version: stereo rhythms...please check out http://www.poojyum.com/boxar_1.0-1_armel.deb |
| 22:36.28 | zakkm | andre_ : link didnt work ;p |
| 22:36.31 | jagernot | your comments welcome. |
| 22:36.38 | andre__ | zakkm, depends on definition of school... i'm still a university student :-P |
| 22:36.40 | GeneralAntilles | JamieBennett, maybe when it purges EFL? |
| 22:36.47 | qwerty12_N800 | zakkm, nope ;). but it's my last year anyway |
| 22:37.01 | GeneralAntilles | jagernot, Extras-devel! :D |
| 22:37.06 | JamieBennett | maybe? Something common is there that completely blasts carman |
| 22:37.24 | jagernot | gen: how do i add to extras devel? |
| 22:37.31 | GeneralAntilles | JamieBennett, maybe harass etrunko. |
| 22:37.37 | GeneralAntilles | ~upload-extras |
| 22:37.38 | infobot | rumour has it, upload-extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras |
| 22:37.40 | GeneralAntilles | jagernot ^ |
| 22:37.55 | JamieBennett | GeneralAntilles: Done |
| 22:38.41 | jagernot | ok will do that..if anybody could check it out (including you General) that will be nice :) |
| 22:39.45 | andre__ | pets infobot |
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| 22:44.06 | zakkm | whats the difference between " nokia chat " and rtcomm? |
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| 22:46.57 | Sargun | Is there any way to put my device in host mode USB and charge at the same time? Without modifying cables. |
| 22:47.13 | GeneralAntilles | Um? |
| 22:47.21 | GeneralAntilles | Plug in the charger and an OTG adaptor? |
| 22:48.03 | milhouse | Yes, no USB charging on N8x0 |
| 22:48.34 | Sargun | Err |
| 22:48.42 | Sargun | This is not for an N810 :-/ |
| 22:48.46 | *** join/#maemo housetier (n=housetie@unaffiliated/housetier) |
| 22:48.46 | milhouse | Speaking of which, I hate microUSB charging - I do hope Nokia don't go the route of charging only through a microUSB port on the next device and then hide the port behind a kick stand... |
| 22:49.18 | milhouse | Sargun: Sorry, thought you were zakkm, I misread. What device is it? |
| 22:49.26 | Sargun | OpenMoko. |
| 22:49.30 | Sargun | FR. |
| 22:49.41 | Sargun | I need to pump power into the miniUSB-b port. |
| 22:49.48 | Sargun | and also use it in host mode |
| 22:49.53 | milhouse | I've no idea, sorry |
| 22:50.05 | GeneralAntilles | Sargun, an OpenMoko channel would probably know better. :) |
| 22:50.10 | milhouse | Wouldn't you be better iff asking on the openmoko channel? |
| 22:50.13 | Sargun | It's a hardware question... |
| 22:50.14 | milhouse | s/iff/off/ |
| 22:50.18 | zakkm | whats oepnmoko? |
| 22:50.32 | milhouse | open source hardware/software phone |
| 22:50.41 | milhouse | mobile phone |
| 22:50.49 | zakkm | what does it have to do with maemo? |
| 22:51.00 | qwerty12_N800 | And I think the openmoko guys know more about the hardware then us |
| 22:51.33 | milhouse | zakkm: nothing :) |
| 22:51.36 | Sargun | Well, they're busy |
| 22:51.39 | Sargun | you guys are just bright |
| 22:51.50 | milhouse | you're new around here, huh? |
| 22:51.56 | milhouse | ;) |
| 22:52.14 | zakkm | not quite, but i have a bad memory so that plays it role |
| 22:52.47 | milhouse | zakkm: I meant Sargun, he doesn't know us very well (joke) |
| 22:52.59 | Sargun | heh |
| 22:53.14 | zakkm | oh sorry |
| 22:54.08 | Stskeeps | the weirdest things laying about in svn .. "delicious-applet |
| 22:54.17 | GeneralAntilles | In stage? |
| 22:54.20 | Stskeeps | yeah |
| 22:54.23 | GeneralAntilles | Weird |
| 22:54.26 | GeneralAntilles | Compile it? :D |
| 22:54.39 | Stskeeps | "Example statusbar applet for storing bookmarks in del.icio.us |
| 22:54.42 | qwerty12_N800 | yerga's already done it |
| 22:54.54 | GeneralAntilles | Where is yerga? |
| 22:54.57 | GeneralAntilles | I need to ask him a question. . . . |
| 22:57.58 | *** part/#maemo JamieBennett (n=JamieBen@5ad153dd.bb.sky.com) |
| 22:58.44 | zakkm | GeneralAntilles: wouldnt it be nice if that worked... hmm i need ___ .. *BAM* appears |
| 22:58.54 | GeneralAntilles | You don't even know. |
| 22:59.04 | GeneralAntilles | Although it has happened before. |
| 22:59.19 | zakkm | i was thinking more reality, not irc |
| 23:00.16 | GeneralAntilles | Well, I never need people in reality. :P |
| 23:06.13 | Mouser810 | Has anyone else had problems with their headphone jack? My device acts like headphones are always connected which overrides bluetooth audio and internal speakers. |
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| 23:14.32 | Stskeeps | makes a mental note internal and external hildon isn't synchronized |
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| 23:56.17 | test | Hi everybody, I've got a simple question.... I've installed maemo SDK 4.1.1 DIABLO in scratchbox on my ubunto Hardy Heron system. It works fine. |
| 23:57.49 | test | I've started OS2008 hildon in my Xephyr window with af_sb_init and it loads ok.... but there's one problem : I can't access internet... nor can I run a browser session... should that be possible from scratchbox ?? thanx |
