IRC log for #maemo on 20081009

00:02.46*** join/#maemo Tuco (n=Y@unaffiliated/tuco)
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00:35.50DeeleAnyone here?
00:37.01DeeleI have question regarding nokia 770
00:38.55DeeleIs there any possible way to make work any Java software on nokia 770 (OS2006)?
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01:24.35crashanddieDeele, no
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02:16.07dick-richardsonI moved /etc/sudoers...how do i move it back?
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02:24.25dick-richardsonI moved /etc/sudoers...how do i move it back?
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02:28.31dick-richardsonanyone on?
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02:42.01dick-richardsonmust be some good pr0n
02:43.34bef0rdwhat do you mean 'you moved' it?
02:44.04dick-richardsonI got it back...I ran 'sudo mv /etc/sudoers ./'
02:44.19dick-richardsonwhich makes it difficult to do anything as sudo
02:44.40dick-richardsonincluding moving it back :P
02:44.59bef0rd:P I just use rootsh
02:46.00dick-richardsonI would have installed it, but that requires sudo access
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02:59.54dick-richardsonanyone familiar w/this: http://shop.eten.hu/mugen-power-3600mah-extended-battery-for-nokia-n810-with-battery-door-blue-p-475.html
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03:06.37*** join/#maemo EruditeHermit (n=EH3@unaffiliated/eruditehermit)
03:08.27EruditeHermitis it possible to play urls with mplayer on maemo?
03:16.35*** join/#maemo acydlord_aao (n=acydlord@ip72-201-170-53.ph.ph.cox.net)
03:19.22EruditeHermitand is it possible to speed up video playback using any media player? I get jittery playback
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03:36.35*** join/#maemo zetheroo-ubuntu (n=zetheroo@115.64.96.58.exetel.com.au)
03:36.47zetheroo-ubuntuhow do you get GPS working on the N810?
03:36.55zetheroo-ubuntuis it built in?
03:39.32zetheroo-ubuntuanyone?
03:39.45EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: yesit should be
03:40.27zetheroo-ubuntuis there a program that I have to install to get it to work?
03:42.33EruditeHermitI don't know because I don't have one
03:42.40EruditeHermitbut agps
03:42.47EruditeHermitis something that helps with GPS
03:43.03EruditeHermitmaemo-mapper also uses it
03:43.23EruditeHermitmaemo mapper is a really good mapping program
03:45.40EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: go to control panel
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03:46.11EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: and click on GPS Location item
03:46.24EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: make sure your GPS is turned on
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03:49.23zetheroo-ubuntuyes
03:49.26zetheroo-ubuntuits on
03:49.35zetheroo-ubuntufinding only 1 sat though
03:50.15zetheroo-ubuntuhow many do I need to get a map going?
03:50.43EruditeHermitI dunno
03:50.45EruditeHermit5
03:50.51EruditeHermitI read somewhere
03:50.56EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: install agps
03:51.01moontigeri think its 7
03:51.12EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: that uses internet connection to make lock faster
03:51.31EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: otherwise lock can take 10mins or more
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03:53.21zetheroo-ubuntubut what if there is no internet connection available?
03:53.50EruditeHermitit falls back to normal locking
03:54.19zetheroo-ubuntuso GPS is not all that steady
03:54.28EruditeHermithmm
03:54.35EruditeHermitfrom what i have read
03:54.53EruditeHermitit is a complaint of many
03:54.58zetheroo-ubuntuok
03:55.01zetheroo-ubuntu:)
03:55.10zetheroo-ubuntuwell I love the N810
03:55.11EruditeHermitit may be steady
03:55.27EruditeHermitjust takes a long time to lock satellites
03:55.31zetheroo-ubuntusuper quality and maemo is a great piece of software
03:55.47EruditeHermithmm
03:55.55EruditeHermitit WAS good
03:56.13EruditeHermitneeds a good update now which it will get
03:56.20EruditeHermitwith a new device
03:56.47zetheroo-ubuntuwhy do I have so few apps available for install?
03:57.14EruditeHermityou need maemo extras repo
03:57.24EruditeHermithttp://www.gronmayer.com/it/
03:58.19zetheroo-ubuntuok it was there but disabled
03:58.48zetheroo-ubuntuis maemo-mapper the best map app?
03:59.16EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: I like it the best
03:59.30zetheroo-ubuntuok
03:59.51zetheroo-ubuntudo I need any other packages other than maemo-mapper to get the full usage from it ?
04:00.32EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: nope, you just need to select a map repository, like openstreetmap or yahoo, google, etc
04:00.44zetheroo-ubuntuok
04:00.49EruditeHermitand download the maps for the area you want
04:01.00zetheroo-ubuntuin the GPS setup what do I select for the internal GPS to work?
04:01.12zetheroo-ubuntuFile Path?
04:01.23zetheroo-ubuntu/dev/pgps
04:01.25zetheroo-ubuntu?
04:01.30EruditeHermitI dunno
04:01.35EruditeHermitI don't have an n810 but try it
04:02.00EruditeHermitfrom the menu
04:02.04EruditeHermitselect the GPS item
04:02.13EruditeHermitand then select enable GPS
04:02.16EruditeHermitwhat does that do?
04:02.49zetheroo-ubuntuit says Searching for GPS receiver ... and then Error reading GPS data!
04:03.00zetheroo-ubuntuis that becasue I am not locked on
04:03.10EruditeHermitcould be
04:03.17EruditeHermitinstall agps
04:03.24EruditeHermitand see if that helps it lock on
04:03.26zetheroo-ubuntuok
04:03.36EruditeHermitGPS performance is not so good indoors
04:03.57zetheroo-ubuntuahhh
04:04.00EruditeHermitindoors you might have a network connection that helps it get a lock on
04:04.23zetheroo-ubuntuis it possible to get the pop-up keyboard on the screen with the N810?
04:04.31EruditeHermityes
04:04.42zetheroo-ubuntuhow?
04:04.57EruditeHermittap on a text input area
04:05.07EruditeHermitwith the stylus or a pen
04:05.07zetheroo-ubuntuI am
04:05.10zetheroo-ubuntunothing is happening
04:05.11EruditeHermiterr
04:05.14EruditeHermitok
04:05.15EruditeHermitone sec
04:05.25EruditeHermitgo to control settings
04:05.37EruditeHermitsettings-->control panel
04:05.47zetheroo-ubuntuyep
04:05.53EruditeHermittext input settings
04:06.04zetheroo-ubuntuahh
04:06.07zetheroo-ubuntuenable it
04:06.27zetheroo-ubuntuagps is not in the repos
04:06.30bef0rdyou need to close the hardware keyboard or it wont appear
04:06.34zetheroo-ubuntudo I need to download it?
04:06.49EruditeHermitagps might be in maemo extras
04:07.00EruditeHermitmake sure you have enabled the maemo extras repository
04:07.35zetheroo-ubuntuits enabled
04:07.58EruditeHermithmm
04:08.42*** join/#maemo slonopotamus (n=slonopot@83.149.9.107)
04:08.54EruditeHermitagps-ui
04:10.52EruditeHermitI have: nokia catalg; nokia catlog 3rd party software; Nokia System sofware updates; maemo extras;
04:11.03EruditeHermitcatalog*
04:12.29EruditeHermithmm
04:12.47EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: agps-ui should be in the nokia catalogues
04:12.57EruditeHermittry reloading your lists
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04:20.13zetheroo-ubuntuwill try
04:21.12zetheroo-ubuntudo you have the N800 or N810?
04:21.48zetheroo-ubuntucause its not here
04:23.11EruditeHermitn800 here
04:23.45EruditeHermitGet:2 http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com diablo/user agps-ui 0.10-1beta
04:23.48zetheroo-ubuntumaybe its been pulled from the repos
04:24.03EruditeHermitare you using diablo?
04:24.06EruditeHermitor chinook?
04:24.22zetheroo-ubuntuno idea what either of those are
04:24.30zetheroo-ubuntuwhats red pill mode by the way?
04:24.34EruditeHermitgo to control panel
04:24.55EruditeHermitclick about
04:25.00EruditeHermitwhat does it say the Version is?
04:25.37zetheroo-ubuntu2.2007.51-3
04:25.51EruditeHermitah
04:25.53EruditeHermitthats why
04:26.12EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: how much time are you willing to spend on your tablet?
04:27.54EruditeHermitsince you got your tablet, Nokia released sofware updates that require that you flash your tablet if you want to update it
04:29.24zetheroo-ubuntuahhh
04:29.41zetheroo-ubuntuwell I did that before on the N800 ... so I don't mind doing it again with this one
04:29.52zetheroo-ubuntuif its not too difficult ...
04:29.54zetheroo-ubuntu:)
04:29.57EruditeHermitits not too bad
04:30.12zetheroo-ubuntucan you help me?
04:30.15EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: what OS is your laptop/desktop that you use?
04:30.21zetheroo-ubuntuUbuntu
04:30.23zetheroo-ubuntuHardy
04:30.26EruditeHermitI'll point you to simple instructions
04:30.43EruditeHermitah good, me too
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04:32.26EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
04:32.51EruditeHermitfollow instructions there
04:32.59EruditeHermitmake sure you backup all your files on the tablet
04:33.05EruditeHermiteverything will be wiped out
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04:39.21EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: let me know how it goes
04:52.20zetheroo-ubuntuwhere is the flasher?
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04:56.49bef0rd~flashing
04:56.49infobotwell, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
04:57.28bef0rd#  Download the flasher for your platform and tablet model from Nokia's Tablet Dev site
04:57.47bef0rdhttp://tablets-dev.nokia.com/
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05:09.31zetheroo-ubuntu<PROTECTED>
05:09.52GeneralAntilleszetheroo-ubuntu, you have to tell it where the flasher is.
05:10.03zetheroo-ubuntuI am in the folder where it is
05:10.14GeneralAntilles./flasher<tab>
05:10.42zetheroo-ubuntu?
05:10.54GeneralAntillestype ./flasher and press tab
05:11.03zetheroo-ubuntuI downloaded flasher-3.0 to my desktop
05:11.27zetheroo-ubuntunothing happens when I do that
05:11.45GeneralAntillesAStorm, Maemo Mapper is in Diablo Extras now.
05:11.52zetheroo-ubuntuzeth@zeth-ubuntu:~/Desktop$ sudo ./flasher-3.0 -F <RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin> -f -R[sudo] password for zeth: sudo: ./flasher-3.0: command not found
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05:12.09bef0rdls flash*
05:12.41zetheroo-ubuntu<PROTECTED>
05:13.20zetheroo-ubuntuzeth@zeth-ubuntu:~/Desktop$ ls flash*flasher-3.0
05:14.16prakis busybox the archiver for maemo?
05:15.55zetheroo-ubuntuany ideas?
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05:20.39zetheroo-ubuntuGeneralAntilles : you still there?
05:21.55zetheroo-ubuntuI tried it without sudo and this is what I got
05:22.05zetheroo-ubuntuzeth@zeth-ubuntu:~/Desktop$ ./flasher-3.0 -F <RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin> -f -Rbash: ./flasher-3.0: Permission deniedzeth@zeth-ubuntu:~/Desktop$
05:22.12prakwhat is the most common application for opening tarball files in maemo?
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05:22.34GeneralAntillesprak, tar?
05:22.34GeneralAntillesxarchiver is around somewhere, too.
05:22.40zetheroo-ubuntuEruditeHermit  : you there?
05:22.42GeneralAntilleszetheroo-ubuntu, sudo chmod 755 ./flasher-3.0
05:22.58zetheroo-ubuntuok
05:23.05prakthanks
05:23.34zetheroo-ubuntunow it gives this
05:23.35zetheroo-ubuntuzeth@zeth-ubuntu:~/Desktop$ ./flasher-3.0 -F <RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin> -f -Rflasher v0.8.7 (Oct 17 2006)-R: No such file or directory
05:23.48EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: remove the < and >
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05:24.40EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: I hope you backed up your files btw
05:24.44zetheroo-ubuntuwhich is the swap button?
05:24.51zetheroo-ubuntuthere where no files...
05:24.56EruditeHermitthe one with the house
05:24.57zetheroo-ubuntuits just came brand new
05:25.06EruditeHermitlooks like a house
05:25.07zetheroo-ubuntuno house here...
05:25.11EruditeHermithmm
05:25.32GeneralAntilleszetheroo-ubuntu, the two overlapping rectangles.
05:25.50EruditeHermitits nearest the camera
05:25.51zetheroo-ubuntuSuitable USB device not found, waitingUSB device found found at bus 007, device address 003Error claiming USB interface: Operation not permitted
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05:26.04GeneralAntilleszetheroo-ubuntu, you have to rude flasher as root.
05:26.08GeneralAntilless/rude/run/
05:26.08EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: put sudo infront of that
05:26.25EruditeHermitsudo infront of the whole command
05:26.34zetheroo-ubuntuok.. its working
05:26.38zetheroo-ubuntu:)
05:28.20EruditeHermitGeneralAntilles: do you know any way to make video playback better?
05:28.29GeneralAntillesEruditeHermit, install mplayer?
05:28.38EruditeHermityeah, mplayer is slow
05:28.51EruditeHermitor my video is stuttering with it still
05:29.02GeneralAntillesWhat video?
05:29.05EruditeHermitmay or may not be slow in absolute terms
05:29.07EruditeHermitits a stream
05:29.16GeneralAntillesThere are hard limits on the data that can be transfered to the LCD controller
05:29.32GeneralAntillesand network activity decreases that even more as it adds CPU overhead.
05:29.42EruditeHermitmms://skinkers-livestation-bbcworld-en.wm.llnwd.net/skinkers_livestation_bbcworld_en
05:29.55GeneralAntillesI wouldn't push more than 400x240 @ ~700-1100Kbps with MPEG4 over the network.
05:30.17EruditeHermitthat is the stream
05:30.21EruditeHermitdo you think its too much?
05:31.06Proteous_squints really hard at the url and realizes that it wont magicaly tell him the bandwidth and resolution of the stream
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05:31.21GeneralAntillesDunno
05:31.31GeneralAntillesIs it WMV or somesuch?
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05:33.16EruditeHermitVIDEO:  [WVC1]  448x288  24bpp  1000.000 fps  470.0 kbps (57.4 kbyte/s)
05:34.15Proteous_that's a lot of FPS
05:34.28Proteous_I don't think the refresh rate of the tablet is that high
05:34.33EruditeHermitthats what mplayer spat out
05:34.39EruditeHermitmay or may not be true
05:35.07Proteous_I'll give you 5000:1 odds
05:35.15EruditeHermitlol
05:35.16Proteous_want to bet me a dollar?
05:35.25EruditeHermitonly if it is your dollar
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05:35.42EruditeHermitdollars*
05:35.58EruditeHermitonly if they are your dollars*
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05:39.58EruditeHermitmplayer with omapfb is better
05:40.16EruditeHermitit drops a lot of frames
05:40.35EruditeHermitbut it doesn't stop the audio as much as osso player
05:42.24Proteous_I use tversity to on the fly encode my media for my n810
05:42.31Proteous_I've also used orb
05:42.48Proteous_(both windows programs although there are linux/mac alternatives)
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06:20.24moontigeris maemo.org really so busy?
06:23.30GeneralAntillesYes, it gets pounded a lot.
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06:42.53notcoolbuthothi, I'm having troubles getting to see in eclipse the documentation (method signature) for the gtk+ api, a full indexing seems to only make that possible for inner project files. Must I include something in the project paths area? I would also wish to get to view the gtk+ files in eclipse when I right-click->open_declaration on a gtk+ method. Can anyone help me?
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06:48.51moontigerGeneralAntilles, whats with the nokia chat thingy? is anyone using it? how does one sign up for an account?
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07:02.11EruditeHermitnotcoolbuthot: you should probably ask in another channel maybe?
07:02.29EruditeHermitnotcoolbuthot: is it eclipse for maemo?
07:02.34notcoolbuthotyes
07:02.44EruditeHermitah
07:02.44notcoolbuthoteclipse with ESbox
07:02.54EruditeHermitwell I don't know how to help you
07:03.11EruditeHermitbut maybe an eclipse channel could help you as well as others in here
07:03.22EruditeHermityou might want to ask in other places too
07:03.35EruditeHermitseems like a very technical question
07:03.44EruditeHermitabout eclipse
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07:41.37hrwmorning
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08:21.52AStormGeneralAntilles: thanks for info :)
08:25.15JaffaGeneralAntilles: ping
08:25.49GeneralAntillesJaffa, pong.
08:26.46JaffaGeneralAntilles: The maemo.org redesign thread looks like it could do some chairing. Quim seems to be getting very frustrated and there's circular discussions about making things big
08:27.57GeneralAntillesCarman took an odd approach to implementing its statusbar applet.
08:28.12AStormtime to get my sbox up again
08:28.17AStormand build an OpenCV package
08:28.34AStormand python-opencv too
08:29.51GeneralAntilleswas dreading that.
08:30.48AStormbtw, I need a less broken xournal :)
08:30.56AStormeven the chinook one is rarely crashing
08:31.28AStormas a bonus, someone could implement "hand" panning tool
08:31.39AStormand/or widen the scrollbar
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08:39.04GeneralAntillesJaffa, problem is, I'm really totally disconnected from that discussion at this point.
08:39.27JaffaGeneralAntilles: hmm
08:40.08GeneralAntillesLooking at it it just feels like so much noise to me.
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08:54.59RST38hGAN, Jaffa: I am no longer participating. The stuff they discuss does not appear to have anything to do with what was planned.
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09:30.34lcukponders the meaning of life
09:30.49lcuk(whilst waiting for tps reports to print)
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09:52.26dfaureI reformated the internal sd card (mmc2) to ext3 and cloned the system there, but now the map application says "no memory card found". any idea how I could use maps again?
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09:56.39johnxdfaure, mount something on /media/mmc2?
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10:00.35RST38hmoo, lcuk, johnx
10:00.43johnxm00f RST38h
10:00.48RST38hmoo, zap too
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10:02.02woglindemorning
10:02.45woglindehm has someone a idea how I can map/alias the standard locales which is utf of de_DE to de_DE.UTF-8 like on desktop?
10:04.20woglindehm or the other way round
10:04.47woglindei want to set it to de_DE.UTF-8 and it has to map to the standard de_DE on maemo
10:08.50lardmanmorning all
10:09.08woglindehi lardman
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10:14.34dfaurejohnx: thanks. I reformatted /dev/mtdblock4 as vfat and it works again. the error message was misleading, I thought it was looking for a memory card explicitely, instead it was just looking for a vfat partition anywhere :-)
10:14.44johnxeep!
10:14.57GAN800Warning!
10:15.02johnxuhm, you really shouldn't do that to mtdblock4
10:15.03dfaure?
10:15.06dfaureoops?
10:15.16GAN800Your internal flash will fail very soon.
10:15.19johnxthat's a raw NAND device and it needs a wear leveling file system
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10:15.35johnxprobably won't fail *soon* but go and reformat it to jffs2 right now
10:15.42GAN800Never EVER format a raw mtd block as non-wear-leveling fs.
10:15.48johnxif you need to get stuff off of it remount it read-only first
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10:16.24dfaurethere's no mkfs.jffs2 ... how do I do that?
10:16.45johnxhang on a sec, I'll find you a copy of mkfs.jffs2
10:17.09dfaurethese devices confuse me ;) if mtdblock4 is too small for installing real software, but can't hold maps either, it's pretty useless :/
10:17.50johnxhmm? real software = software that takes lots of space? :P
10:18.07dfaureyeah :-) like, say, kdepim :)
10:18.14GAN800Works for the vast majority of users.
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10:18.33GAN800jffs2 is compressed anyway
10:18.40dfaurewell it was full.
10:18.45johnxkdepim fits in 64MB on a zaurus...
10:19.14johnxremove the useless manuals and images and videos included in /home/user
10:19.15dfaureI installed kde4 kdelibs+kdepim (from Mek's package) and the jffs2 system was full
10:19.38dfaureMek told me to boot off the memory card, so now the whole system is cloned there...
10:19.47MangoFusionjust clone onto SD. that works for me ;)
10:20.00dfaureMangoFusion: and can you still use the maps?
10:20.04johnxdfaure, yeah, booting from sd card isn't a bad idea if you need it
10:20.11johnxjust make *two* partitions...
10:20.14MangoFusionis there a problem with the maps on SD? i haven't tried
10:20.54dfaureyeah I see that there's lots of empty space, two partitions is probably a good idea.
10:21.14johnxmake the first one vfat and it will auto-mount on /media/mmc2 still
10:21.16dfaureMangoFusion: well the problem is that if the SD is one big ext2 partition then the maps don't work
10:21.42dfaure(since they have to be on a vfat partition, for a reason that totally escapes me)
10:21.55GAN800'Map' doesn't work very well either way. ;)
10:22.53johnxactually, I can't find a mkfs.jffs2 for the tablet...
10:23.01dfaureGAN800: hey I'm trying to find some usefulness to this device, don't take one third of it away ;)
10:23.05Stskeepslook at fanoush's bootmenu
10:23.12GAN800Maemo Mapper
10:23.16MangoFusionjust need to make a fat partition before the cloned system partition i think?
10:23.19johnxStskeeps, ah, good idea
10:23.23GAN800dfaure, if it's not useful, why buy it?
10:23.32dfaureGAN800: heh ;) it was a gift from nokia
10:24.02johnxdfaure, did you install bootmenu to dual boot? if so, look under /usr/libexec/bootmenu/mkfs.jffs2
10:24.03GAN800or just flasher-3.0 -F <FIASCO> --flash-only=rootfs
10:24.34dfaureI have some sort of boot menu indeed, but no /usr/libexec/bootmenu/
10:24.52dfaureah thanks found it
10:24.58dfaureinside the initfs_flasher dir
10:25.54dfaurehehe that's for making a jffs2 image from a directory tree. why is it named mkfs.jffs2 then :-)
10:26.20MangoFusionloves when the modest browser decides to choke on JS-heavy sites
10:26.51dfaureMangoFusion: that's exactly why you want konqueror on the device :-)
10:27.00MangoFusionthat would be 10 times worse ;)
10:27.14johnxnah, webkit has a better js engine for now I think
10:27.29MangoFusionkonqueror pulls from webkit now?
10:27.36MangoFusioni thought they were still seperate
10:27.44dfaureyes they are separate
10:27.57dfaurealthough we merge fixes from webkit now and then
10:28.20GAN800'modest browser'?
10:28.28johnxGAN800, JS heavy email? :)
10:29.02GAN800MicroB's getting updates all the time.
10:29.09MangoFusionsorry microb
10:29.10GAN800We'll be there soon enough.
10:29.17MangoFusiontoo many m's
10:29.24GAN800Three?
10:29.39GAN800Maemo, Modest, MicroB
10:29.49johnxall progress is good progress. It's nice to see cross-polination of ideas and especially nice to see open source browsers overshadowing closed source ones
10:29.49MangoFusiondoes anyone know if there is a JavaScript console available for microb?
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10:30.00MangoFusioni seem to be getting an error in my code
10:30.09MangoFusionwhich i cannot reproduce anywhere else
10:30.27MangoFusionnot even firebug lite seems to help
10:31.11GAN800I wonder how Carman does alternate map repos.
10:31.25RST38hHas Carman been released?
10:31.31GAN800Sorta of
10:31.43GAN800metapackage doesn't seem to be in place
10:31.51RST38hextras-devel for now?
10:32.08GAN800But installing most of the stuff apt-cache search carman* shows will do yah
10:32.16GAN800Yeah
10:32.27RST38hwill be waiting then
10:32.30GAN800It's very pretty
10:32.52RST38hbtw, there is a nice network scanner app released but it has got real problems integrating into hildon ui
10:33.17RST38hand it's not in the repo, unfortunately
10:33.32GAN800I need to figure out which Bluetooth serial adaptor I want.
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10:34.02RST38hMeanwhile: "Armed police officers yesterday shot dead a devil dog which attacked four people during a uncontrolled rampage in Mitcham, South London."
10:34.17RST38hGAN: There is exactly 1 (one) BT ODB dongle on the market
10:34.29RST38hSo, it is not necessary figuring out
10:34.41GAN800Serial adaptor for the OBDII scanner I already have.
10:34.46RST38hah
10:34.57johnxyou kids with your digital ECUs *shakes his head*
10:35.30GAN800throws a carb at johnx.
10:36.11johnxheh...not talking carbs either. I'm thinking about early analog ECUs :)
10:36.21GAN800I'm really baffled by the Max Payne trailer
10:36.28RST38hjohnx, lemme guess, a bicycle? =)
10:36.46johnxRST38h, lots of early 80's Japanese cars
10:36.50RST38hah
10:36.54GAN800I've played the game at least 20 times and it doesn't look a thing like it.
10:37.11RST38hhad an '84 Camry but it already came with a digital ecu, afaik
10:37.39johnxyeah, it was just a couple really awkward years in the late 70s/early 80s
10:38.18RST38hThe only movie based on a game that I liked was the Mario Brothers but only because the whole production team seemed to be on toadstools
10:38.34GAN800urgh
10:39.15RST38hNo, really, how else would you produce shit like that?
10:39.18GAN800What good video game-based games have there been?
10:40.12lcukstreet fighter
10:40.53lcuk(only cos kylie was in it)
10:41.38GAN800it's sad because there's a lot of good material to work from
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10:43.19lardmanDoom? ;)
10:43.19lcuknot really, what would be best is to find a story which can sit on multiple platforms  andhas enough backstory to make both the game and  the movie entertaining and thrilling
10:43.32lcukwants to see half life universe explored in movie
10:43.49RST38hgames normally have skin-deep back stories, what would you work from?
10:44.07GeneralAntillesNormally, but that's not true of all games.
10:44.11lcukRST38h, thats the thing, the backstory commonly comes from what the engine is capable of
10:44.17lardmanwants to see the Force Unleashed as it's console only; then again there is already a book of the story of the game, hmm
10:44.26dfaureshould I flash_eraseall /dev/mtd4 or is this yet another bad idea?
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10:44.35RST38hlcuk: Not really: books "engine" isn't capable of anything but god do they have rich back stories!
10:44.37GeneralAntillesHehe, I want to to Shadows of the Empire made into a movie.
10:44.55lardmanGeneralAntilles: there must be books of that already?
10:45.02johnxcan I has my snow crash movie?
10:45.02RST38hok, just give me a Dungeonkeeper The Movie...
10:45.08GeneralAntilleslardman, yes, there's a book.
10:45.18GeneralAntillesLucas can't have anything to do with it, though.
10:45.19lardmanbooks are better than movies.
10:45.22GeneralAntillesHe's clearly lost his mind.
10:45.29GeneralAntillesBooks are _different_ than movies.
10:45.43lcukRST38h, books are entirely artistic and mind candy,  if theres enough meat inside a good literary universe you can expand to movies/games
10:45.49lcuklike star wars as mentioned
10:45.49lardmanwell written book is better than a movie, unless the movie is going to be 10hrs long of course ;)
10:45.53GeneralAntillesFew people really push the medium to its limits, though.
10:46.04lcukbut more often than not the backstory to a game is like the plot to a porn movie
10:46.10RST38hlcuk: Exactly. But games are entirely eye candy and masturbation tools
10:46.22RST38hlcuk: No place for backstories there
10:46.23GeneralAntilles2001 is an example of a movie that really excels at pushing the visual medium.
10:46.24lcuk*see previous comment
10:46.28lardmanLeisure suite Larry?
10:46.32lardman(spelling?)
10:46.43lcukjet set willy :D
10:46.53lcukin 3d
10:46.53RST38heven stuff like WoW is basically a masturbation tool
10:47.06lcukwow is visual IRC
10:47.09lardmandepends what you're in to :)
10:47.13johnxvows never to play WoW against RST38h
10:47.14RST38hQueer pleasure through repetitive performance of senseless actions
10:47.32lardmanjohnx: lol. might be an advantage for you though, not got his mind on the job
10:47.33RST38hhas never played WoW but has just met a WoW addict
10:47.35lcuki like playing the maemo game :)
10:48.08lardmanGAN800: SW games have gone downhill since Dark Forces and the first of the Jedi Knights imo
10:48.08lcuki hear its starting to be ported to other gaming systems at the moment though ;)
10:48.09RST38hThis stuff *isn't* healthy
10:48.14GeneralAntilles"<lcuk> RST38h, books are entirely artistic and mind candy"
10:48.18GeneralAntillesThat makes no sense, lcuk. :P
10:48.31RST38hdepends on how you define artistic
10:48.32johnxWoW addicts are just drug addicts who don't know a dealer...
10:48.34lardmanGeneralAntilles: probably means you have to use your imagination
10:48.46lcukGeneralAntilles, theres more to read than the back of a cereal packet
10:48.52GeneralAntilleslardman, for a Calculus textbook, too? :P
10:49.09RST38hHe obviously did not mean your calculus textbook =)
10:49.17GeneralAntillesBooks are nothing more than bound pages of paper with words printed on them.
10:49.22lardmanyeah, imagine how you're going to take over the world using your new skills, motivational ;)
10:49.42GeneralAntillesRST38h, *shrugs* it _is_ a book.
10:50.00RST38his trying to figure out how to get access to a machine in the US
10:50.07lcukchanges stance: fiction books were intent of my comment
10:50.12RST38hFrom a "controlled country", too...
10:50.32RST38hObfuscated to no end...
10:50.46GeneralAntilleslcuk, a lot of fiction books fail the "artistry and mind candy" test, too. ;)
10:50.51dfaurefunny, mount -t jffs2 was enough to get a jffs2 system back. no mkfs needed.
10:51.00Stskeepsuh.
10:51.12johnxO_o
10:51.14RST38hGAN: Calculus certainly satisfies the mind candy part
10:51.24johnxdfaure, run mount and make sure
10:51.25RST38hGAN: And the artistry depends on the author
10:51.28lcukGeneralAntilles, just like many games fail the entertaining and fun tests
10:51.37GeneralAntillesRST38h, now _that's_ a highly subjective statement.
10:51.39dfaureyep, mount says jffs2.
10:51.57lcukstops this convo anyway, we are gettin in the way of a serious problem
10:52.02lardmanI'd work through this: Actually the only aspect I get hung up on (and with the comic as well) has to do with fuel for the jet boots. But again, I just suspend disbelief and enjoy the fictional ride...
10:52.06dfaureand I can chown a file, so this is definitely not FAT :)
10:52.07lardmanoops
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10:52.11Stskeepsso you mkfs'ed mtdblock4 with vfat, and then you're able to remount it vfat?
10:52.11lardmanbloody cut and paste
10:52.12RST38hhad more Calculus than General can ever imagine
10:52.25lardmanthis even: http://www.sfsite.com/lists/orion01.htm
10:52.35Stskeepsmount it jffs2, that is
10:52.49GeneralAntillesRST38h, yes, I'm sure, but not everybody find math enjoyable.
10:52.52dfaureStskeeps: Yep. I mkfs'ed mtdblock4 with vfat, mouted it, umounted it, then mounted it with -t jffs2, and that seems to have reformatted it
10:53.10dfaureit matches what I saw while googling, too; people would erase the mtd device and then just mount it...
10:53.12RST38h300+ hours total just in the first 4 semesters
10:53.18Stskeepsdfaure: god bless unexpected sideeffects..
10:53.42dfaureyeah what if someone has important data in a vfat partition and just mounts it wrongly....
10:53.54Stskeepsi swear, at some point i'm going to discover something that'll make me loose all faith in technology, and i'd move into a monastary
10:54.51crashanddiethank god for that
10:55.26crashanddies/loose/lose/
10:55.47crashanddieor s/me loose all faith/my faith all loose/
10:59.05Stskeepsgrammar nazi.
10:59.19RST38hKILL KILL
10:59.21RST38hhttp://gizmodo.com/5060946/barack-obamas-3-million-overhead-projector-actually-pretty-cool
10:59.59RST38hgives up on trying to get access =(
11:01.58GeneralAntilleslardman, related: what killed Iron Man for me was the scientist idiotically waving a rifle running after those two terrorists who were themselves running away like a couple of schoolgirls.
11:03.05lardmanwell he was probably pretty smelly after living in a cave for a year...
11:03.23GeneralAntillesAll that stupid campy shit that you'd never see in Batman.
11:03.57lardmanhmm, I'm not too fond of Batman, film started well, finished poorly
11:04.09lardmanfirst of the new ones that is, I've not seen the latest one
11:04.11GeneralAntillesO_O
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11:04.15GeneralAntillesOh
11:04.16GeneralAntillesAh
11:04.26Stskeepsfell asleep during the dark knight.. but then again, that was after several beers
11:04.33GeneralAntillesI was going to have to kill you for not liking The Dark Knight
11:04.34Stskeepsshould rewatch it some other point
11:04.43GeneralAntillesDark Knight is probably the greatest superhero movie ever made.
11:04.46lardmanWhen's it out on video?
11:04.56lardmans/video/DVD (of course)
11:04.59GeneralAntillesDunno
11:05.04GeneralAntillesI saw it 4 times in IMAX
11:05.19lardmanmust be cheaper to go to the cinema over there then! ;)
11:05.26GeneralAntillesFree
11:05.37lardmanhmm, yes that's quite cheap :)
11:05.43GeneralAntillesI know a few people who work in that theater.
11:06.41towoFinally got my N810 back from the Big N...
11:07.47lcuktowo, how did you get it back from Nigel, he threatened to beat me up when i asked for mine back
11:08.00towoBigger guns.
11:08.23lcukwas it bein repaired? how long did it take?
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11:09.37RST38hGentlemen, do you all understand that you are discussing stupid story-less movies shot in Hollywood based on some goddamn comic books?
11:09.53*** part/#maemo GeneralAntilles (n=GeneralA@pdpc/supporter/active/generalantilles)
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11:09.57*** part/#maemo GeneralAntilles (n=GeneralA@pdpc/supporter/active/generalantilles)
11:10.00RST38hHeh
11:10.03*** join/#maemo GeneralAntilles (n=GeneralA@pdpc/supporter/active/generalantilles)
11:10.27RST38hAnd you expect these movies to be realitic! =)
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11:10.58GeneralAntillesRST38h, did you see the new Batman's?
11:11.04GeneralAntilless/'//
11:11.05RST38hNo and not going to
11:11.13GeneralAntillesThen stuff it.
11:11.22RST38hIt is quite sufficient that I have seen Iron Man, while on a plane
11:11.37johnxnow, now children. quit bickering
11:12.01Stskeepshad a flashback of comic book guy for a second there
11:12.10RST38hThe old Batman at least had the atmosphere. I do not exepct anything but blue-screened visual effects from the new one
11:12.20lcukStskeeps, only for a second?
11:12.37GeneralAntillesRST38h, actually, there's not a lot of CGI in the new ones.
11:12.39Stskeepslcuk: okay, more :P
11:12.52johnxGeneralAntilles, uhm, WTH?
11:12.58GeneralAntillesjohnx, true!
11:12.59RST38hGeneral: Really? Why?
11:13.04RST38hRan out of money?
11:13.04GeneralAntillesWell, more than the latest drama.
11:13.21GeneralAntillesBut Nolan isn't a fan of over-the-top effects.
11:13.26johnxGeneralAntilles, do you think that the batmobile and that ridiculous bat-cycle-thing exist and were driven around a real city?
11:13.36GeneralAntillesjohnx, the batcycle was CGI
11:13.40GeneralAntillesThe batmobile is real.
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11:13.56GeneralAntilles"I think there's a vague sense out there that movies are becoming more and more unreal, I know I've felt it. The demand we put on ourselves was to be as spectacular as possible, but not depend on computer graphics to do it."
11:13.59johnxGeneralAntilles, and it really crushes cars?
11:14.25RST38hMars Attacks was probably the last good SF movie to come from Hollywood
11:14.41GeneralAntillesjohnx, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batmobile_(Batman_Begins)
11:14.53RST38hGiven that Wag The Dog is now a documentary.
11:16.00Stskeepslatest decent sci fi i've seen was the man from earth, and code 46.. well, and v for vendetta
11:16.10GeneralAntillesMan from Earth was excellent
11:16.14GeneralAntillesClassic science fiction
11:16.22Stskeepsi went to donate cos i couldn't buy it in my region just yet
11:16.47RST38hchecks imdb
11:17.05thuxi need to keep two keyboards on nit-env-gnome-basic that how could write one or an another
11:17.20Stskeepsthux: huh?
11:17.25GeneralAntillesRST38h, you didn't like the Matrix?
11:17.49Stskeepswas okay with first matrix, animatrix, but two last ones sucked
11:17.57GeneralAntillesStskeeps, well, duh. ;)
11:18.08RST38hGeneral: No. Should I?
11:18.09lardmanV for Vendetta! I couldn't bring myself to watch that
11:18.17GeneralAntillesDonnie Dark is another good one post Mars Attacks
11:18.25Stskeepsyeah, donnie darko obviously
11:18.26GeneralAntillesChildren of Men
11:18.30Stskeepslardman: it's a -very- good movie
11:18.34lardmanhmm
11:18.55Stskeepsespecially when you live in UK you can probably draw some parrallels :P
11:18.56GeneralAntillesRST38h, I'm baffled as to why one wouldn't like the Matrix.
11:19.16GeneralAntillesRST38h, how about Serenity?
11:19.19Stskeeps(why is it always UK that gets the movies about police states, deadly infections, etc?)
11:19.22thuxmostly upper one but it opens first lower one and have to close killing pid
11:19.27johnxGeneralAntilles, to be different.
11:19.29RST38hGeneral: Mindless special effects, shallow and unoriginal back story, naive ideas of what networks and hacking are
11:19.41RST38hGeneral: I absolutely liked Serenity the series and somewhat liked the move
11:19.43RST38hmovie
11:20.01RST38hGeneral: For the sole reason that it is very low key and not about SF at all
11:20.07lardmanSerenity movie was rubbish imho, not seen the series
11:20.27Stskeepsthux: not sure what you're trying to explain
11:20.28RST38hlardman: You should see series first, the movie is kinda useless to watch otherwise
11:20.29johnxlardman, it doesn't work too well to see the movie first I think
11:20.49lardmanyeah, not much backstory, or indeed story at all afaict
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11:21.04johnxlardman, it doesn't give enough character intro in the movie. you need to start watching it with the characters already in your mind
11:21.08GeneralAntillesEh, I saw the movie first and enjoyed the hell out of it.
11:21.27RST38hMovie isn't bad but kinda incomplete
11:23.19GeneralAntillesjohnx, you read the wiki page? :)
11:23.46johnxGeneralAntilles, what wiki page?
11:24.05GeneralAntilleshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batmobile_(Batman_Begins)
11:24.40johnxah, that. yeah...I believe you now. I still think a lot of that scene was done with cgi, but I'll grant not all of it
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11:30.11Stskeepsponders idly
11:30.17Stskeepsfound a comment somewhere: Boot loader is "NoLo". It supports booting off from SD cards as well.
11:30.20Stskeepsi wonder
11:31.14lcukgo go stskeeps
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11:32.55Stskeepsnot that it matters that much when we can add new kernel and such and flash it..
11:33.25Stskeepsstill, .. FreeBSD? ;>
11:33.54johnxwith ... no drivers? :P
11:34.04Stskeepshehe
11:34.04X-FadeSweet, the Collabora stuff is coming to Extras ;)
11:34.11Stskeepsdidn't say it should be useful
11:34.27Stskeepsjohnx: in any case it would probably be possible to replace NOLO with u-boot
11:34.36Stskeepsi'm not going to touch that, but it's probably possible
11:34.40johnxor just kexec if needed
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11:38.00bongohi. i want to get a passwordless root login to diablo. where should i place my pub key? i can add the key to ~/.ssh/authorized_keys to login as user, but i need to do this for root
11:38.23dfaurebongo: then /root/.ssh/authorized_keys ;)
11:39.24bongook, just create the .ssh folder if it is not there?
11:39.28dfaureyes
11:40.31bongoworks, thx
11:46.58RST38hX-Fade: Just make sure they and Nix merge their Pidgin installations
11:47.39RST38hX-Fade: Also, after talking with Collabora guys, it looks like their Pidgin/libpurple packages are kind of bogus: they are not supposed to be used separately, only as support for their own stuff
11:47.42X-FadeRST38h: That is their idea actually ;)
11:47.56RST38hX-Fade: I talked to them about it yesterday ;)
11:48.04X-FadeRST38h: Ah good ;)
11:48.46RST38hTheir stuff includes 18MB extra data (which is really optional and this is how Nix' Pidgin treats it)
11:50.20hrwbongo: next time use ssh-copy-id
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11:50.31hrw'ssh-copy-id root@nokia.lan'
11:50.32X-FadeRST38h: Well anyway, it is easier to deal with it when it is all in the same repo.
11:50.43RST38hX-Fade: hopefully =)
11:50.58X-FadeRST38h: Or it might explode earlier ;)
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11:51.09bongohrw: nice hint ;)
11:51.33RST38hit will most likely explode due to version conflict but I hope Collabora and Nix resolve it
11:52.28X-FadeRST38h: Well you can't upload conflicts as those won't build on the builder. So perhaps..
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12:01.42thopiekarcould you please check out this thread on iTT:
12:01.42thopiekarhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=232020#post232020
12:01.42thopiekari've got some problems setting up an rfcomm connection..
12:01.42thopiekarthanks and cu l8er
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12:04.59thuxStskeeps: gnome-terminal didnt open browser?
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12:12.59Stskeepsthux: i'm sorry, i don't get you? maybe there's no browser installed :P
12:13.41thuxicexeasel is
12:13.52thuxweasel
12:14.15Stskeepsthen write iceweasel in terminal?
12:14.20Stskeepsit might take a while to startup :P
12:14.47thuxusually gnome-terminal opens link from irc
12:15.11thuxbut deblet doesnt
12:16.33thuxwhen you do irc with terminal and somebody insert http link
12:17.18thuxklik link browser opens
12:18.42johnxdo you have the correct browser selected in the preferences?
12:19.05thuxi check
12:23.00thuxjohnx: that helped thanx
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13:11.15AStormkudos to Canola team for finally adding back Ogg support in 10-beta2 :)
13:12.02GeneralAntillesAStorm, Diablo not lookin' so bad anymore? ;)
13:13.50GeneralAntillesdneary, ping.
13:15.22AStormGeneralAntilles: yeah, almost looking good
13:15.35AStormnow, we need maemopad++ and non-broken xournal
13:16.04GeneralAntilleslardman|lunch, ping.
13:16.11AStormI'd actually rather extend xournal with basic tree note manager :)
13:16.34AStormand a few other minor features
13:16.48X-FadeAStorm: Maemopad+ is in Extras now.
13:16.58X-Fadehttp://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemopadplus/
13:17.05AStormgood :)
13:17.18AStormstill, broken xournal is in extras-deve
13:17.21AStorm*-devel
13:17.25AStormcrashy to hell
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13:17.53dnearyGeneralAntilles: Here
13:18.02dnearyBut have to go see the accountant in about 15 minutes
13:18.21GeneralAntillesdneary, whenever you get time, can you look over my lists for killing the old wiki?
13:18.43GeneralAntillesI reviewed the pages, and put together a list of redirects and a list of salvageable stuff.
13:18.51GeneralAntillesI need some more people to eyeball it, though.
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13:19.25lopzhola
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13:20.30AStormxournal has much more mature editing tools, while maemopad+ has the nice tree note manager and text notes
13:20.38dnearyGeneralAntilles: Pointer?
13:20.56AStormalso, xournal has pdf support
13:20.56dnearyIs this wikireorg in the old wiki, or a page in the new wiki that I haven't been watching?
13:21.02AStormso... :)
13:21.07GeneralAntilleshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Kill_the_old_wiki
13:22.10GeneralAntillesI wasn't as methodical as I should have been putting together the redirect list, so I may have missed some.
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13:26.07AStormhmmh
13:26.19*** join/#maemo madhav (n=Administ@117.195.161.134)
13:26.22AStormI'm getting "Unable to read socket" in pidgin
13:26.35AStormwith GaduGadu transport
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13:26.47AStormwhile my pidgin on laptop works all right
13:27.14AStormsame 2.5.1 version
13:27.51AStormmaybe the difference is that mine uses gnutls
13:31.13dnearyGeneralAntilles: OK - looks like a good start!
13:31.37GeneralAntillesdneary, after the list is made, we just need to kill it and put the redirects in.
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13:31.48dnearyThere should definitely be a pointer to wikireorg, since that has a list of the pages we moved before.
13:32.07dnearyOh! There it is, righht at the top
13:32.09dnearySorry
13:32.18dnearyI didn't think "old wiki" would link to that page
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13:33.25GeneralAntillesIt could probably be more prominent, but I was being lazy. ;)
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13:59.49RST38hWeird: apparently cellphones are still stolen and resold around here
14:00.22RST38hOne would think that IMEIs make this kind of crime a complete deadend
14:00.23johnxRST38h, did you see the awesome iphone scam?
14:00.28RST38hoh yes
14:00.44johnxthat's full of win
14:00.45RST38hand I actually suspect that it is a chinese-made toy they are using
14:01.05johnxheh...but in China they make *real* iphones :P
14:01.24RST38hthey will make it as real as you are ready to pay =)
14:02.06RST38hbut iphones are actually going out of fashion: the public eagerly awaits 5800 and HTC Touch HD =)
14:02.43johnxgoing out of fashion among geeks maybe
14:02.56johnxI mean the razr v3 is still the most sold phone in the US...
14:03.07RST38hjohnx: it is a bit different here. more like Japan than like USA
14:03.22Stskeepsis seeing more and more ipod touch'es though
14:03.32johnxheh...iphone isn't going out of style here either, among normal people. try again
14:03.42RST38hjohnx: dumb-like-a-stump blondes with ultra expensive smartphones like N95 etc
14:03.59Stskeepspeople are really upset about iphone + teleproviders here, .. the 3g net is simply not up to par
14:04.29RST38hjohnx: apparently, people who have enough money to eat but not enough money to buy cars consider cell phones the next available expression of social status
14:04.33Stskeepsi would actually prefer a n810w here, the range is quite good in this area :P
14:05.02RST38hjohnx: But this also means they have to change cell phones often :)
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14:06.15johnxRST38h, two factors here: everyone is in love with the ipod (enthralled is more accurate) and everyone plays cell phone games or surfs the inet on their phone, hence the iphone is going like mad
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14:06.49RST38hjohnx: yea, those two would make it a killer gadget
14:07.00RST38halthough gaming is somewhat limited on iphone
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14:07.21johnxRST38h, not serious gaming, just things to pass the time on a 1 hour commute on a crowded train
14:08.02RST38hjohnx: I always said that $20/gallon gas will make smartphones mighty popular in US ;)
14:08.26johnxno public transportation infrastructure to speak of though
14:08.34thuxis iphone 3d hardware accelerated?
14:08.35RST38hotherwise, poor americans just don't have time to play with their phones
14:08.38RST38hyes
14:08.52RST38hjohnx: Well, bus network is really easy to roll out
14:09.12RST38hjohnx: And I am pretty sure that under the right management Amtrak will cost like a bus, not like an airplane
14:09.20johnxRST38h, we'll see I guess. it was shrinking over the last few years though in the seattle area
14:09.30RST38hjohnx: same everywhere
14:09.44johnxRST38h, amtrak doesn't *go anywhere* that people need day-to-day
14:09.57RST38halthough at the east coast, chinese have built several bus lines of their own
14:10.18RST38hjohnx: but it does - it connects dc, baltimore, nyc, and boston
14:10.34GeneralAntillesI'd love to take a train back home.
14:10.38RST38hjohnx: that covers a lot of places where people go to work
14:10.39Stskeepshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zBnwqHjQNA <- i kinda want one
14:10.48johnxRST38h, can you actually use it to commute though?
14:10.50GeneralAntillesThere's apparently a track and stations, I can't figure out if it's possible to actually ride it, though.
14:11.01RST38hjohnx: my dad does
14:11.16johnxRST38h, terrifying! I never knew... O_o
14:11.24RST38hjohnx: it is either amrtak or driving and parking in DC
14:11.40johnxI heard they want to up the security to airport levels though...
14:11.50RST38hjohnx: and believe me, driving and parking in DC during the rush hour is way more terrifying and more expensive too
14:12.03RST38hif they do, they will lose lots of business travelers
14:12.08johnxRST38h, yeah, I know. been there, done that
14:12.39johnxI wonder if amtrak actually does "commuter" service in seattle->everett
14:14.16thuxi would like to have nvidia gpu and ppc phone with linux
14:14.42RST38hjohnx: it may but may cost like an airplane ticket too
14:14.58johnxtalk to nvidia, they're not offering linux support for their embedded GPUs it appears
14:15.07johnxalso, why  PPC instead of ARM?
14:15.13RST38hthux: would you like a cooling system with that?
14:15.30glass_g5 hotpocket
14:15.55thuxi got ppc ipaq was much better than omap ipaq
14:16.24RST38hyou do not understand what you are talking about
14:16.47johnxthux, link to the ppc ipaq, please? I'm interested :)
14:16.53RST38h"ppc ipaq" = iPaq running PocketPC (WinCE for PDAs)
14:17.08glass_ppc in this case = pocketpc? and not the cpu arch....
14:17.09RST38hthe chip inside ipaq is an Intel XScale ARM chip
14:17.11thuxno powerpc
14:17.22glass_thux: link
14:17.26glass_some url to it
14:17.42RST38hNow, "ppc phone with linux" is an oxymoron, as you probably understand now
14:17.45thuxi don't have link
14:17.54RST38hIt is either PocketPC or Linux, choose one
14:18.14GeneralAntilleslol
14:18.19thuxppc cpu familiat linux
14:18.20glass_thux: i'm failing to google powerpc ipaq. so. link or it's bullshit
14:19.29johnxthux, I've been following the ipaq line for about 10 years, and they've always based them on ARM processors. I'm not sure if they ever used an OMAP, but I'm pretty sure it was mostly strongARM, then xscale
14:19.29RST38hthux: there were no ppc cpus in ipaqs
14:19.53RST38hthux: if you think there were, provide us with a url
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14:20.29glass_does wince even run on powerpc?
14:20.45GeneralAntillesSomehow I doubt it.
14:20.58johnxI *think* it does
14:21.08GeneralAntillesMaybe we could run some 360 games on it, though. ;)
14:21.45RST38hLast time I checked, WinCE supported MIPS and ARM
14:22.03RST38hWinNT ran on PowerPC and Alha before, but Microsoft killed both ports long time ago
14:22.12RST38hs/Alha/Alpha/
14:22.17Stskeepsjohnx: what's your view regarding what things need polishing in deblet currently?
14:22.20Stskeepssystem level wise
14:22.51johnxStskeeps, real system level? or user facing control of system level stuff?
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14:23.28Stskeepswell things that may not work so well, - beneath the user interface i guess
14:24.13Stskeepswe should look into wifipowersave setting when not connected
14:24.37johnxyes, and more power saving stuff. figure out what's taking CPU cycles while idle
14:24.49johnxBTW, xscreensaver runs while the screen is blank :)
14:24.58johnxby default
14:25.02Stskeepsyeah, i found out by accident
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14:25.14Stskeepsi had some s2ram and it returned and had a weirdass display on
14:25.27Stskeepsand wondered.. and realized it was a screensaver
14:25.34johnxheh...I just plugged it into power once and saw it
14:25.41johnxit was really pretty on such a high res screen :)
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14:25.46johnxbut also really warm
14:26.01Stskeepsyeah, nit-env-lxde needs a loving hand
14:26.02Stskeeps:P
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14:26.17RST38hHehehehe: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/10/08/nyc_national_debt_clock_runs_out_of_digits/
14:30.56Stskeepsjohnx: new n-m will have ppp support btw
14:31.02Stskeepscompiled some packages
14:32.18Stskeepsjohnx: also i was pondering if we should make cron use retu wakeup or the likes maybe
14:32.34johnxso we can use s2ram?
14:32.48Stskeepswell also saving power
14:32.56Stskeepsand maybe s2ram too i guess
14:33.24Stskeepsi used s2ram in ireland, worked decently but had some deadly encounters with a non-PSM wifi that killed my power
14:33.34Stskeepsbut then again i didn't play any sounds (dsp should have problems)
14:34.38Stskeepsshould we maybe consider removing cron package since we don't really need it for now, i dunno :P
14:34.53johnxhmm, does it really kill the battery?
14:34.59johnxit should only wake up once a minute
14:35.08johnxor is it constantly running a timer?
14:35.37Stskeepsgood question
14:35.41Stskeepslemme see code
14:36.38johnxI ran it on os2007 without ill effects I believe
14:36.46johnxit certainly didn't have a huge impact
14:37.54Stskeepswell i had problem mine went to sleep so it missed the cron wakeups
14:37.58Stskeepsso it didn't do its job
14:38.57Stskeeps.. could always port maemo's alarmd
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14:40.11Stskeepsjohnx: wakes up every minute, reads its databases..
14:40.29johnxthat shouldn't be bad I think
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14:41.03Stskeepsi wish we had some way of determing what swallows power
14:41.25johnxpowertop :)
14:41.43johnxneed an oprofile kernel and some other debug thing as well
14:41.47Stskeeps*nod*
14:41.55qwerty12CONFIG_TIMER_STATS (I think), doesn't like the wifi last time I tried
14:42.11johnxqwerty12, did you recompile the wifi driver?
14:42.37qwerty12johnx: Hmm, good point, I didn't. umac or cx3110x?
14:42.42qwerty12out of question :)
14:42.45johnxcx3110x I mean
14:43.22Stskeepsthen again if we mess up the wifi we can still analyze on the system itself
14:43.55johnxqwerty12, was it just CONFIG_TIMER_STATS or was there something else?
14:44.02johnxmight have made up the oprofile bit...
14:44.20Stskeepsjohnx: nokia provides oprofile kernels
14:44.27qwerty12johnx: just that for powertop. The other options were not present or already activated
14:46.12Stskeepsjohnx: also i'm not sure if it's a problem we use a system compiled not optimally for our processor
14:46.26Stskeeps(jesus, my language is bad today.
14:47.10GeneralAntillesProbably doesn't help.
14:47.13johnxit is a problem I think *sighs*
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14:47.21GeneralAntillesYou could always recompile for armv6 and see. *g*
14:47.37johnxbut I'm not sure what to do about it, short of putting effort into angstrom or mamona instead
14:47.57GeneralAntillesUblet
14:48.20StskeepsGeneralAntilles: that's true, but it actually misses some things that are kinda basic for a sane system :P
14:48.21johnx>:|
14:48.34GeneralAntillesOh?
14:49.13StskeepsGeneralAntilles: well bits and pieces around, atleast in the newest versions, that aren't complete, so many of the basic metapackages aren't installable
14:49.42GeneralAntillesdoesn't really know anything about Ubuntu from Mojo other than that it's available for armv6
14:49.58johnxmost of it is available
14:50.13johnxlots of compiling...lots of *native* compiling
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14:51.50Stskeepsi guess we can find packages that are intensive and compile some of them for arm and prioritize them or something
14:51.54Stskeepsarmv6
14:52.43johnxyou have a beagleboard coming, right?
14:52.57Stskeepsgot one but have serial issues atm
14:53.16johnxwell, once it's up can find a good use for its spare cycles...
14:53.31Stskeepshehe
14:53.41johnxhey, I'll pitch in with my pandora when it comes
14:54.36GeneralAntilleslol
14:54.50GeneralAntillesI think we should convince tekojo to get a cluster for maemo.org. ;)
14:55.26qwerty12But I've grown fond of the 770's that host maemo.org
14:56.01GeneralAntillesFor the autobuilder
14:56.20RST38hhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3519 has finally got attention
14:56.23qwerty12My bad :). That would be a nice idea actually :)
14:56.28RST38hRejoice!
14:56.40GeneralAntillesI really wish they had a price on the overo.
14:57.21GeneralAntillesRST38h, can you attach the relevant patches?
14:57.53qwerty12http://sse2.net/rotate/Updated_blizzard_rotation_support_v2.diff & http://labs.vivi.eng.br/blog/rotation-patches/adding-support-to-xrandr-on-xomap.patch to save time
14:58.05RST38hattaching
14:58.49RST38hThey are already attached there so no need to do it again
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14:59.25GeneralAntillesLinking from a comment is not an attachment. ;)
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15:00.08RST38hoh ok
15:00.19Stskeepswhat arm version was 770?
15:00.26qwerty12v5 iirc
15:00.34Stskeepsk
15:00.38GeneralAntillesarmv5
15:00.42GeneralAntillesIt was an ARM9
15:04.32juergbiJaffa: i'd like to update the vala and libgee packages, get them into extras, and keep them maintained. do you think it makes more sense to do this via mud or shall i just create a garage project?
15:05.50RST38hThe About box in the latest Gnumeric is hilarious
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15:10.52X-FadeGeneralAntilles: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mauku/
15:10.59X-FadeGeneralAntilles: You knew about that, right? :)
15:11.12GeneralAntillesWhen did they open it?
15:11.18GeneralAntillesOr was I just misremembering? :\
15:11.34X-FadeRegistered: 2007-10-10 13:34
15:11.50GeneralAntillesHrm
15:11.55GeneralAntillesI wonder what I was thinking of.
15:12.02*** part/#maemo jpereiran (i=c8c71779@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3621d21de4831d4f)
15:12.15X-FadeIt used to be closed. But 11 months ago was the first upload of code.
15:13.16lopzhola
15:13.22GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to teach tim how to quote.
15:13.35X-FadeOh, that reminds me. I need to ask Hendrik to upload to Extras ;)
15:14.20X-Fade*Henrik
15:17.17Stskeepswhat's -vfp for generally?
15:17.24Stskeepsor is that a bad thing on tablets?
15:17.44johnxgood on an n8x0, not present on a 770
15:17.47Stskeepsk
15:17.47X-FadeStskeeps: Floating point. N8x0 like that.
15:18.05X-FadeBut it kills performance on 770.
15:18.53qwerty12Stskeeps: How are you going to optimise it both for 770 and N800 at the same time?
15:19.13qwerty12Sure, 770 opts should work on N800 but you won't get the best performance
15:19.16GeneralAntillesYou aren't
15:20.03johnxthe debian armel builds are probably close to optimal for the 770
15:20.34GeneralAntilles^
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15:32.52Stskeepsokay, what's the use of building thousands and thousands of packages, when you can't even do a good debootstrap package..
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15:39.55Stskeepshttp://lwn.net/Articles/243939/ <- that really explains some awkward problems i've been having
15:40.43qwerty12That's a pretty shitty thing to set as default im
15:40.58qwerty12recommended to me means you should but you don't strictly have to
15:41.16Stskeeps<PROTECTED>
15:41.26Stskeepspasses on the crackpipe he just got passed from the apt developers
15:41.41GeneralAntillesHehe
15:43.29johnxI'm mixed on the recommends thing
15:43.42johnxit usually means this package will start but not really work unless you do this
15:44.03johnxor it *should* with suggests being "you might also want this"
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15:45.54Stskeepstries a nit-env-lxde without recommends
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15:46.21darxhi, how can i use n800 as a graphics tablet for a desktop computer?
15:46.35darxis there a way to forward mouse events from x?
15:46.42darxor something like that?
15:46.46GeneralAntillesvnc?
15:47.19darxthe mouse actions should be precise.
15:47.37darxmy main motive to be able to draw diagrams and stuff
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15:48.54Stskeepsconsidered using xournal for sketching instead? i guess you can make a program that translates pressure, x, and y in some way
15:49.16darxStskeeps: yes.. i do have xournal.
15:49.53darxhow may i get started suppose i'm willing to write an app?
15:49.59Stskeepspython's a good start
15:49.59Stskeeps:P
15:50.02darxi've some basic programming skills.
15:50.12*** join/#maemo crashanddie (n=crashand@SecuraBit/listener/crashanddie)
15:50.17darxi mean the documentation and stuff
15:50.47qwerty12darx: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/
15:51.01darxthanks
15:52.12darxis n800 diablo or chinook?
15:53.15johnxthose are just different software versions
15:53.20johnxit depends on which one you installed
15:54.03darxOS2008
15:54.14johnxthey are two versions of os2008
15:54.56darx2.6.21-omap1
15:55.09johnxjust look in the about box in control panel
15:55.15johnxthey *both* use the same kernel
15:55.27GeneralAntillesHehe
15:55.29johnxand really, you should try vnc before deciding it's not precise enough
15:55.31hrwsame kernel realse but different revisions
15:55.49hrw2.6.21-omap1 from chinook != 2.6.21-omap1 from latest diablo
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15:56.08johnxsorry for oversimplifying, it won't happen again
15:56.13darx4.2008.36-5 :-D
15:56.24johnxdiablo :)
15:56.36darxcool
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16:16.32lcukstskeeps, using python for a graphical app is just painful
16:16.56lcukthat should get you publically flogged for even suggesting it ;)
16:17.03Stskeepssorry :P
16:17.46lcukhaving said that, i did v0.00000000000000000000001 of liqbase sketching in python, and when i swirled my mouse around got a really cool diamond spirograph effect
16:19.04GeneralAntillesHrm, rotation for Fremantle.
16:20.39lcukGeneralAntilles, shouldnt that be a core baseline  feature anyway, and even if not can be done by any client app on the fly with a texture and a couple of triangles
16:20.54GeneralAntillesHrm?
16:21.09johnxI don't think everything will be rendering to clutter...
16:21.14crashanddieif the real processing is done with optimised code, say C or even assembly, wouldn't python be forgiveable?
16:21.16lcukwell if you are rendering a 3d surface does it care whether up is up or not
16:22.00johnxlcuk, that assumes that everything will be rendered in GL, right?
16:22.10lcukjohnx, it might not all come from clutter, but wont it be a composited desktop env - basically everything should come through 3d?
16:22.42johnxlcuk, I don't think that's decided yet
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16:23.47johnxthough doing it with compositing at the wm level would be more flexible than at the widget level in terms of including older tablets...
16:23.58lcukjohnx, if we are stepping between 2d and 3d wont we have a visual stutter as screenmode changes and some apps needing 3d windows will have problems etc
16:24.02derfcrashanddie: On an embedded device the real problem is the 10 MB of libraries and interpreter you need to load to execute your 100 line progam.
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16:24.27johnxlcuk, uhm, no?
16:24.30crashanddiederf, I never really python, I maybe typed 10 lines in in my whole life
16:24.51derf"Your" is of course figurative.
16:24.59SavagoGood morning. Anyone known if qt4 for maemo has an IRC channel?
16:25.19crashanddiederf, of course, I just wanted to point I have no idea about the real performance of python, even when processing is done by a real language
16:25.28johnxlcuk, GL in an X11 window doesn't require a mode change or anything like that.
16:25.52lcukjohnx, if my app uses just a single nice widget but the rest is just standard, its gonna be disjointed and jarring and the underlying interface ppl will have to write 2 sets of things for 2d and 3d
16:26.15lcukno, but gl in a window is not the same as whats offered by qt widgets
16:26.50johnxliqbase and canola are already different from the core widget set. doesn't really seem that jarring to me I guess
16:27.06derfI just have to laugh that Nokia spent all this effort to use things like busybox to save a few KB of disk space and shave a second or two off boot times, and the first thing their users do is say, "Let's put Python on it!"
16:27.06SavagoI'm getting the dreaded "qemu: uncaught target signal 11" when calling qmake inside of scratchbox.
16:27.30StskeepsGeneralAntilles: mind if i send in a patch for adv-backlight for loosing libdsme dependancy?
16:27.36lcukyes but if liqbase and canola want to sit pretty inside the existing frameworks then it should be completely transparent changeover
16:27.40rm_youStskeeps: hrm
16:27.42lcukanyway, hometime, back shortly
16:27.54rm_youStskeeps: we'll look at whatever patches you send it
16:27.57rm_you*send in
16:28.10Stskeepsrm_you: cos the libdsme code is a wrapper over a unix socket connect and .. send().
16:28.13Stskeeps:P
16:28.17rm_youas long as it doesn't break stuff, we should be ok :P
16:28.33rm_youbrb shower
16:28.49Stskeepsrm_you: saw the deblet adv-backlight?
16:29.05rm_youno
16:29.06rm_youbut brb
16:31.27VDVsxHi everyone, in the maemo OS exist any system call to turn on and off the bluetooth adapter ?
16:32.03Stskeepsrm_you: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/hildlet6.png when you're back from shower
16:32.08qwerty12VDVsx: Sure, dbus can do it. I can't remember the exact dbus-send command but switchonbt has it in it's scripts
16:33.29VDVsxqwerty12, thanks, I gonna take a look in the maemo d-bus docs
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16:36.01GeneralAntillesderf, Nokia didn't put Python on the tablets.
16:36.07GeneralAntillesIt isn't officially supported. . . .
16:36.19*** join/#maemo bilboed (n=bilboed@pdpc/supporter/active/bilboed)
16:36.37derfGeneralAntilles: I never said they did.
16:38.00yacoobso, my poor tablet is now in evil hands of nokia support
16:38.11yacoobwe'll see whether they can fix it.
16:38.24qwerty12yacoob: What happened?
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16:39.16yacoobqwerty12, it's in the backlog, two nights back. In short: it has developed some condition, that caused it to instantly power off the moment I close battery cover.
16:39.33yacoobOr slide/close keyboard. Or squeeze. Or close the stand.
16:39.33qwerty12Ouch >.<
16:39.56yacoobgenerally, some physical impact -> tablet goes off
16:40.08*** part/#maemo erstazi (n=erstazi@unaffiliated/erstazi)
16:41.03yacoobqwerty12, yeah, I've been suspecting the funny latch on the battery cover, and I've tried to play with it. Some success (I was able to close the battery cover :) but didn't get to the point where it wouldn't power off after some random pokes...
16:41.06GeneralAntillesAh, "their users"
16:41.08GeneralAntillesmisread, nevermind.
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16:45.15GeneralAntillesWhere in the world did they get "As the mystery deepens, Max is forced to battle enemies beyond the natural world and face an unthinkable betrayal." from Max Payne? <_<
16:45.44johnxfrom their butts
16:45.48rm_youStskeeps: coolbeans
16:46.23rm_youStskeeps: submit your patch, i'll review it, and it'll probably get pushed next minor update (when i fix the volume mute bug)
16:46.29GeneralAntillesjohnx, apparently.
16:47.00GeneralAntillesrm_you, no, push the volume bug update, then push the Deblet patch AFTER. :P
16:47.07rm_youroflcaekz
16:47.12GeneralAntillesStats whoring, stats whoring, stats whoring.
16:47.13rm_youGeneralAntilles: you have a point :P
16:47.28rm_youi'll make sure to wait a couple weeks inbetween as well :P
16:47.41rm_youStskeeps: k, submit your patch, i'll build and release like, tonight :P
16:48.09GeneralAntillesBut make sure you introduce some minor cosmetic bug
16:48.20rm_youlol
16:48.42rm_youI try not to INTRODUCE bugs, even for stats whoring :P
16:52.12Stskeepsrm_you: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/advback-dsmeless.patch , but i haven't had a chance to test it (my tablet is reinstalling deblet..), and please note the comment in the _init since you probably test in scratchbox, but i tested it dpkg-buildpackage's
16:57.02Jaffajuergbi: it makes no sense to me to have a garage project which'd just be build scripts or patches - or, at worst case - a fork. mud's gotta be better for maintaining the build scripts.
16:58.26juergbiJaffa: ok, good :) i should be following the online howtos to see how to keep the packages uptodate, right?
16:58.27Stskeepsrm_you: and that isn't a deblet patch, it's just getting away from having to hax libdsme :P
16:58.42Stskeepsrm_you: but it certainly helps me, i really don't want to add libdsme of all things to deblet
17:02.13rm_youyeah
17:02.15rm_youthat's fine
17:02.24rm_youjust... could you actually test it first? :P
17:02.37Stskeepssure, when i'm done debootstrapping
17:02.37Stskeeps:P
17:02.48rm_you:)
17:03.21Jaffajuergbi: yeah - basically you can point a mud XML file at subversion or a release tarball, add a patch to debian/... to pull in the .vapi files and it's good to go. There're ones already there (sub-optimal) as a starting point. Feel free to ask on the mud-builder-users@garage.maemo.org list for help
17:03.34rm_youk i have class and work now, but i'll check it out tonight
17:03.41rm_youpost it via garage?
17:03.45rm_youafter testing
17:03.55juergbiJaffa: ok, thx, will do this asap
17:04.28*** join/#maemo Mousey (n=welcomem@dsl231-036-060.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
17:04.38Jaffajuergbi: cool
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17:18.58Jaffa[6~/who
17:19.14Stskeepsneat smiley
17:19.15Stskeeps:P
17:19.22lcukjaffa, sneezing fit or cat on pooter?
17:19.31JaffaEager to get home :)
17:19.36lcukheh
17:20.07X-FadeJaffa: If you have a few minutes ;)
17:20.12Stskeepsjohnx: nit-env-lxde is 410 without recommends
17:20.14Stskeeps(mb)
17:20.30johnxhow much with recommends?
17:20.41johnxhas been playing with a pure matchbox-session
17:21.20Stskeepswonders
17:21.20Stskeepssec
17:23.49Stskeepsjohnx: http://rafb.net/p/wg42cr88.html
17:24.28johnxsome of those need to be suggests
17:24.56Stskeepsyeah
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17:27.10Stskeepsrm_you: patch works fine
17:27.18bongoI can't install pluthon with eclipse ganymede. is there a known problem?
17:28.28solmumahaany linux/os x users want to test my video streaming app?
17:29.58Stskeepsrm_you: added to garage
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17:31.02rm_youkk will look tonight if i have time
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17:38.03*** join/#maemo pupnik810 (n=pupnik@pD9E66752.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:38.16pupnik810remoo :)
17:38.36solmumahaevening pupnik810
17:38.55pupnik810how goes it
17:38.59pupnik810solmumaha,
17:39.12solmumahafine, looking for testers for knots
17:39.31pupnik810still way impressed about the latest speedup in vgba
17:40.05pupnik810i will be back and can test next thurs-fri
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17:40.22pupnik810is debian sid vlc ok now?
17:40.25GAN800we want more pupnik. :P
17:40.38solmumahanice, i may have german translation by then
17:40.43pupnik810yeah dosbox neeeds update
17:40.57solmumahaif you can find 0.9.3, it should do fine
17:41.36pupnik810oh nand somebody wrote me to ask for duke3d sources.. if you can tar them by next nweek that would be good
17:41.43pupnik810ok
17:41.50solmumahasure
17:41.52pupnik810hi GAN800
17:42.08solmumahawould be nice if someone could debianize them and upload to extras
17:42.39pupnik810yes  extras is where i want to go now
17:43.27GAN800I should poke some people about the community packaging team.
17:43.50solmumahaGAN800: please do, it should be good enough for extras
17:44.40pupnik810thankless work
17:45.13GAN800Karma points
17:45.26pupnik810nice
17:45.41solmumahai'd gladly put rubybox to extras too if someone could convince alterego to put ruby into extras
17:45.58pupnik810heh
17:46.35GAN800Haven't seen him in months. :(
17:46.52solmumahahe's here at freenode
17:47.03solmumahaand still has the sources
17:47.04GAN800Is he now?
17:47.15solmumahaah, not atm
17:47.25GAN800Wonder why he stopped coming here
17:47.32pupnik810school
17:47.34solmumahawork he said
17:47.36pupnik810?
17:47.38pupnik810oh
17:47.53solmumahai talked to him and he wasn't too negative about it
17:48.00pupnik810has lots to do :) ttyl1a
17:48.02pupnik810!
17:48.06solmumahabut then started ignoring me :)
17:48.10pupnik810Hehe
17:48.13pupnik810cu
17:48.32solmumahaGAN800: you are an os x user?
17:48.39GeneralAntillesYeah
17:48.43solmumahatiger?
17:48.50GeneralAntillesLeopard
17:48.57solmumahappc?
17:49.01GeneralAntillesG5
17:49.14solmumahawanna test my video streaming app? :)
17:49.19GeneralAntillesSure
17:49.23solmumahait's pretty easy to setup in os x
17:49.42solmumahajust download VLC 0.9.3 and install it Applications
17:49.48GeneralAntillesDone. ;)
17:49.59solmumahathen the worst part :(
17:50.10solmumahahttp://pupnik.de/ruby.html
17:50.36solmumahadownload the 3 debs for chinook
17:51.02solmumahacan't remember the order, but i guess libruby was first
17:51.19johnxdownload to same dir, dpkg -i *deb :)
17:51.31johnxI always let dpkg sort 'em out
17:51.40solmumahak, that works then, thanks :)
17:52.02GeneralAntillesI don't know where Google gets the numbers for GrandCentral
17:52.09GeneralAntillesI get the weirdest calls on that line.
17:55.44GeneralAntillessolmumaha, then?
17:58.05solmumahapm
17:58.27solmumahaunless someone else wants to try it too
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18:08.57*** part/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host86-153-227-218.range86-153.btcentralplus.com)
18:10.58*** join/#maemo Barnabas (n=Barnabas@p54BB513D.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:11.17Barnabashey dudes
18:11.51johnxyo
18:12.25Barnabasis there a way to set the time of the backlight to 60minutes bye xterm
18:12.45johnxsure, there's a trick with gconf to add more times to the GUI
18:14.39*** part/#maemo jpereiran (i=c8c71779@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0ed351f00995e5cd)
18:15.01Barnabascan you show me maybe?:)
18:15.11johnxtrying to dig it up, hang on a sec :)
18:15.24Barnabasit suckt when i am watch a movie and every few seconds the light turns off
18:15.34Barnabasthx:)
18:16.04GeneralAntilles~moredimmingoptions
18:16.21*** join/#maemo dholbert (n=dholbert@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)
18:16.33johnxBarnabas, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1147
18:16.37lcukshouldnt the backlight remain on when playing movies tohugh
18:16.41lcuki was sure it did
18:16.50johnxit should and it usually does, except when it doesn't
18:17.14lcukheh
18:17.31Barnabasi use mplayer....and it doesnt:) or is there a funktion in the app
18:19.14lcuki think theres a difference or bug wiht dim vs off
18:19.24lcukif the 2 values are set to the same i believe it remains lit
18:19.35ssvbBarnabas: what kind of device and OS do you have?
18:19.49Barnabasn770 with HE2007
18:19.59GeneralAntillesAnybody know how to fix a blank Application menu?
18:20.19johnxGeneralAntilles, happening to you or someone else?
18:20.24GeneralAntillesMe
18:20.30GeneralAntillesFor the second time in two months
18:20.35johnxls /usr/share/applications/hildon/
18:20.46GeneralAntillesAfter installing a package on an almost full disk
18:20.58GeneralAntillesjohnx, everything you'd expect
18:21.04GeneralAntillesupdate-desktop-database does nothing
18:21.19johnxwonder what files it opens
18:21.28johnxlook in ~/ for cache files?
18:21.39johnxactually, does update-desktop-database run as user or root?
18:22.50GeneralAntillesHrm
18:22.52GeneralAntillesTrying to update database for directory '/usr/local/share/applications'
18:22.52GeneralAntillesCould not create cache file in directory '/usr/local/share/applications':
18:22.52GeneralAntillesError opening directory '/usr/local/share/applications': No such file or directory
18:23.04johnxhuh
18:23.08johnxpointed to the wrong place
18:23.12johnxI wonder what freaked it out
18:23.28GeneralAntillesCould not create cache file in directory '/usr/share/applications': Permission denied
18:23.28GeneralAntillesNo directories in update-desktop-database search path could be processed and updated.
18:23.29GeneralAntillesAs user
18:24.02*** join/#maemo vinilios (n=vinilios@adsl105-150.kln.forthnet.gr)
18:25.15ssvbBarnabas: that's unsupported version of OS unfortunately
18:25.18GeneralAntillesHrm, permission denied on /usr/share/applications too.
18:25.34johnxGeneralAntilles, yeah, well being root would help of course :P
18:25.48Barnabasssvb:..what does that mean for me?
18:25.54GeneralAntillesjohnx, that was as root.
18:25.56GeneralAntillesdrwxr-xr-x    7 1000     1000         1024 Oct 10 14:22 applications
18:26.43GeneralAntillesOr maybe not.
18:26.46johnxGeneralAntilles, how the heck did that happen
18:27.24Barnabasssvb:..what does that mean for me?
18:27.27ssvbBarnabas: I heared that downgrading mplayer to version mplayer_1.0rc1-maemo.24.n770_armel.deb may help
18:28.27johnxanyways, now it's really time for me to sleep
18:28.31johnxgood luck GeneralAntilles
18:28.40Barnabasmhh is this still worked fine with canola youtube plugin?
18:28.55GeneralAntillesjohnx, damn you! :P
18:29.15johnxGeneralAntilles, fix the permissions on applications/
18:29.19johnxshould be root:root
18:33.45GeneralAntillessighs.
18:33.46GeneralAntillesNo luck
18:33.53ssvbBarnabas: don't know, it is up to you to try
18:34.20*** join/#maemo lardman (n=simon@78.145.249.104)
18:34.33lardmanevening all
18:36.13GeneralAntillesreally doesn't want to have to reclone. . . .
18:36.59johnxGeneralAntilles, ok, fixed permissions, reran that update as root? right? no luck still?
18:37.13GeneralAntillesStill no luck
18:38.01johnxand the update works ok now that you're root?
18:38.10GeneralAntillesYeah, no evidence of failure.
18:38.57johnxhmm, look at the permissions for things under applications/
18:39.01johnxdo they look sane?
18:40.06GeneralAntilles-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         2355 Oct 10 01:58 defaults.list
18:40.31johnxs/?/to you?/
18:40.45*** join/#maemo broken_ladder (n=cvs@204-16-153-102-static.ipnetworksinc.net)
18:40.50GeneralAntillesShould .desktops have +x?
18:40.59johnxnah
18:41.26johnxrw-r-r for .desktops
18:41.30GeneralAntillesThen yes
18:41.41johnxnothing else owned by random users?
18:42.12GeneralAntillesNope
18:42.39yergaGeneralAntilles, /home/user/.osso/menus/applications.menu is blank?
18:43.10GeneralAntillesYes
18:43.37yergatry removing it (backup to somewhere), and running update-desktop-database
18:44.38GeneralAntillesIt doesn't recreate it.
18:45.00yergaok
18:45.10yergaI failed ;)
18:47.15GeneralAntillesNo component for the application menu?
18:47.43*** join/#maemo baddu (n=salko@e212-246-64-184.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
18:47.56Barnabasbtw a little notice....the upgrade fix the problem with the backlight;) thx guys
18:48.26RST38hGeneral: No
18:49.38*** part/#maemo Barnabas (n=Barnabas@p54BB513D.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:50.37RST38hGeneral: Still here?
18:51.18GeneralAntillesYeah
18:51.42RST38hcat /usr/share/applications/hildon-navigator/applications-menu.desktop
18:51.48RST38h<PROTECTED>
18:52.26GeneralAntilleshttp://slexy.org/view/s2ek6z7QYQ
18:53.22*** join/#maemo caio1982 (i=caio1982@CAcert-br/caio1982)
18:53.31RST38hls -l /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/libhd-applications-menu-settings.so please
18:55.24GeneralAntilles-rw-r--r--    1 root     root        20908 Aug 11 04:04 libhd-applications-menu-settings.so
18:55.35RST38hall righty...
18:57.03RST38hls -l /usr/share/menu
18:57.32*** join/#maemo dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net)
18:57.36GeneralAntilleshttp://slexy.org/view/s20C58w0nd
18:58.13yergaGeneralAntilles, cp /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu /home/user/.osso/menus/ ?
18:58.54GeneralAntillesyerga, that did it.
18:59.08RST38hHeh
18:59.09GeneralAntillesNow, what's going to happen the next time it's updated?
18:59.10lardmanslightly, ot how can I tell the size of a vorbis file's comments?
18:59.13yergaok, with the extras applications too?
18:59.32yergaGeneralAntilles, test it installing something
18:59.39GeneralAntillesyerga, all 3rd-party applications are now in Extras.
18:59.58Stskeepsnotes to himself -not- to touch the xscreenserver lock button..
19:00.02yergait's better than nothing ;)
19:00.37yergaGeneralAntilles, some reason why it got corrupted?
19:00.53GeneralAntillesMoving stuff around in Panels works fine.
19:01.02GeneralAntillesyerga, package install on a very full fs.
19:01.39RST38hAnybody willing to bet on DOW hitting 8999 today? =)
19:02.33*** join/#maemo thux (n=thux@bb-81-175-159-78.dsl.phnet.fi)
19:03.09yacoobanyone tested new maemo mapper?
19:03.16RST38hyep. works.
19:03.39yacoobwhat's new there? can't test for myself at the moment.
19:03.56badduhi again lardman: i tried your sharedmem program, if i specify the location of the mmapped buffer with PRAGMA it doesn't load it to the dsp
19:05.31RST38hI did not notice anything specific
19:05.52lcukdidnt i read something about maemo mapper losing its icon
19:06.03RST38hstill there for me
19:06.12lardmanbaddu: do you have some code I could look at?
19:06.18*** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@147.17.168.202-static.velocitynet.com.au)
19:06.34baddulardman: it was your sharedmem test http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/shared_memory_test/
19:06.36RST38hmaemo.org has completely died, it seems...
19:06.40gregoroviusnow that you say, I installed the maemo-mapper update and now it's not in my menu anymore
19:06.52Stskeepsjohnx: scaringily, the no-recommends broke nm-applet O_o
19:07.09yacoobtwo people reported that happening on n810.pl too (maemo)
19:07.15yacoob(maemo mapper, that is :)
19:07.23RST38hgregor: maybe it does not update caches?
19:07.25lcukgregorovius, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=232180 others are having similar
19:07.31RST38hthen a reboot may fix it
19:07.36lcukits something to do with failing postinst
19:07.41baddubut i don't know how our environment differs. the problem seems to be that if i use own lcf-file it seems to ignore that and claims that it tries to put the stuff to DARAM (and no space left)
19:07.42lcukapparantly
19:08.06GeneralAntillesRST38h, bugzilla's working fine. :P
19:08.18GeneralAntillesAs is the wiki
19:08.20lardmanbaddu: do you use the .cmd file?
19:08.20RST38hbut not the downloads/
19:08.23gregoroviusthanks lcuk, I'll just wait for it to get figured out
19:08.33lcuksensible
19:08.48RST38hand I am not gonna file ANOTHER bug on non-working maemo.org
19:08.51lardmanbaddu: if dsp_dld doesn't know the memory region it tries to place it in DARAM, then SARAM
19:09.11GeneralAntillesRST38h, we're in a server transition period, so there's no point.
19:09.14lcukgregorovius,  though im sure theres some 400 line incantation you could try manually with the OSK ;)
19:09.32yacoobjudging from the changelog, it's only bugfixes
19:09.38baddulardman: yes, as linker parameter. but the loader seems to ignore that. so the information should be in that module.o file, am i right?
19:10.07lardmanno, dsp_dld also looks for a linker command file with the same name as the module + a .cmd extension
19:10.20lardmane.g. shared_mem.o + shared_mem.cmd
19:10.43badduthats very valuable information :)
19:11.12badduthanks, i thought that i used that already with no help but i must be wrong
19:11.50lardmanmake sure you give the cmd file name in the avs_kernel.conf file (something like that!)
19:12.31lardman<PROTECTED>
19:12.36lardmanclose ;)
19:14.10GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to beat up the Nokia folks still using 'maemo'.
19:14.52badduok, in the dsp_dld_avs.conf there is no mention about other module's cmd files?
19:15.26lcukGeneralAntilles, ? i thought nokia still owned maemo, we just had maemo.org (its like a bad divorce)
19:15.32*** join/#maemo GAN800 (n=ryan@pdpc/supporter/active/generalantilles)
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19:16.10GeneralAntilleslcuk. . . .
19:16.11lardmanbaddu: are you using a standard Maemo installation?
19:16.15GeneralAntillesIt's "Maemo"
19:16.23baddulardman: yep
19:16.36lardmanbaddu: the last column should be full of paths to .cmd files
19:17.13lcuknot according to the "about product" screen on my N810 its not
19:17.28lcuk"Internet Tablet OS: maemo Linux based OS2008"
19:17.38baddulardman: you're right, once again :) it's because of this vi and xterm (or the user of them)
19:17.39GeneralAntillesIt's deprecated and incorrect
19:17.53GeneralAntillesI filed a bug about it
19:17.55lardmanbaddu: no worries, been there done that, cursed alot ;)
19:17.57GeneralAntillesIt'll be fixed soon enough.
19:18.00lcukwonders why peoplecare about case sensitivity
19:18.05GeneralAntilles~brand
19:18.21GeneralAntillesIt's a grammar thing
19:18.24GeneralAntillesIt's a proper noune
19:18.24GeneralAntilleshttps://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_brand
19:18.31*** join/#maemo christefano (n=christo@cpe-76-175-161-121.socal.res.rr.com)
19:18.36lardmanlcuk: perhapsitsalsobecauseifyoustartlosingcasesensitivityitsonlyashortsteptoothergrammaticalissues?
19:18.39*** join/#maemo mazzen (n=mortel@u30-237.dsl.vianetworks.de)
19:19.06lardmanwow that was hard to type without using space :)
19:19.08lcuksoundsreasonablelardman^wasjustwonderingwhypeoplecaredsomuch
19:19.23lardman:)
19:21.43derfGeneralAntilles was compiled with -pendatic. It's why he has the job he has.
19:22.28GAN800-asshole, too!
19:22.40*** join/#maemo fredix (n=fred@fredix.nodecast.org)
19:23.01derfThat's a feature. Girls like assholes.
19:24.14derfhttp://ircquotes.org/viewQuote/50
19:25.45GAN800Hehe
19:38.07*** join/#maemo AStorm (n=astralst@unaffiliated/astralstorm)
19:39.07lcukkicks itt forum software. on the front page if it says someone posted can i make it always go to the latest one instead of taking me to the point where i last read
19:39.32*** join/#maemo Ivan_Chelubeev (n=ijon@ppp85-140-191-184.pppoe.mtu-net.ru)
19:40.55GeneralAntilleshttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/search.php?do=getnew
19:43.00lcuknot quite gen, ive still got to click on the specific page i want, the front thing which just says "active forum topics" which doesnt have real details is ideal, but i want it to always go to last post in the thread
19:43.10lcukthanks though :)
19:44.29GAN800Then click the last page and hit end
19:45.18*** join/#maemo AStorm (n=astralst@dpx242.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
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19:49.13solmumahaany other adventureous willing to try my video streaming app?
19:50.57*** part/#maemo Ivan_Chelubeev (n=ijon@ppp85-140-191-184.pppoe.mtu-net.ru)
19:53.12ircleuserwheres the hash key on an apple keyboard, bloody hate macs!
19:53.37*** join/#maemo robink (n=robink@fatcat.creosotehill.org)
19:55.55RST38hMac users do not need the hash key
19:56.11JamieBennett:)
19:56.20JamieBennett<alt> and 3 apparently
19:56.21solmumahai do
19:56.30JamieBennett(on a UK keyboard)
19:56.50GAN800ircle sucks
19:57.02GAN800alt/opt
19:57.30RST38hAnybody ever worked with Freescale ARM11 boards?
19:57.49GAN800JamieBennett, read: you hate things you don't understand?
19:57.52*** part/#maemo JamieBennett (n=newbie@5ac884e1.bb.sky.com)
19:59.23lcukpressed too many <alt> f keys ;)
19:59.45GAN800Maybe he missed and hit cmd
19:59.55RST38hwho doesn't?
20:00.02GAN800There's no alt-f4 on Mac
20:02.19RST38hquietly salivates over Freescale's 90nm ARM SoC datasheet
20:02.41GAN800ARM11 is the past
20:02.52RST38h"And all I got was that 300MHz MIPS"
20:03.24RST38hGAN: Who cares about fashion? It runs at 500+MHz, has separate 16k+16k 1st level caches and a 128k 2nd level cache
20:04.09RST38hIt is more than sufficient to do the job, past or not
20:04.19*** join/#maemo AStorm (n=astralst@unaffiliated/astralstorm)
20:04.52GAN800I want that OMAP4 with lowpower DDR2
20:05.02GAN800Anybody got a time machine?
20:05.03*** join/#maemo dholbert (n=dholbert@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)
20:05.20hrwRST38h: i.mx31/37 ones?
20:05.24lcuki cant wait for the omap5 with neural interfacing
20:06.08crashanddieliqmind, sketching, moving the cursor just by thoughts
20:06.16hrwnokia n96 phone is ST Nomadik not omap so who knows.. maybe nokia changes provider of cpus?
20:06.18crashanddiethink of an image, send it to your mate
20:06.31RST38hhrw: yep
20:06.46RST38hGAN: OMAP4 sounds sane but forget about ddr2
20:07.32GeneralAntilleshttp://embeddedblog.blogspot.com/2007/02/3gsm-ti-looks-at-low-power-ddr2-for.html
20:07.39hrwomap4 will use ddr7
20:08.16lcukcrashanddie, why are all your pictures blocked by google safe search
20:08.18RST38hHow do MCIMX31 and MCIMX31L compare speed-wise with OMAP2 in N8x0?
20:08.26lcukmy eyes, the goggles, they do nothing
20:08.41hrwRST38h: no idea
20:08.43crashanddieoh shit, wrong nickname
20:08.54hrwRST38h: but atleast for imx you get opengl es officially
20:09.09RST38hlcuk: He is probably nude there, on top of black velvet to make it easier for google's automatic filters
20:10.26RST38hhrw: The part I am looking at does not seem to have 3D hw. It has only got VFP11
20:11.07RST38hAnd some Image Processing Unit with blending, inversion, and rotation features
20:11.41hrwRST38h: I hope to have imx31 hardware at home in 1-2 months
20:11.42GeneralAntillesN96 is an ARM9? :\
20:11.46hrwand then I will be able to test
20:11.51hrwGeneralAntilles: arm926 core
20:11.56GeneralAntillesWeird
20:12.34hrwGeneralAntilles: with HW h.264 decoder
20:12.38hrwand few other formats
20:12.43*** join/#maemo mk8 (n=torello@151.16.202.72)
20:12.47GeneralAntilleswishes we could use ours.
20:12.47RST38hAh, the 31L part has no GPU but 31 apparently does
20:13.18RST38hSo N96 is more of a step back?
20:13.42RST38hhrw: Depending on how things go, I may be able to test it for you before that :)
20:14.45hrwI would not thing that n96 is step back
20:15.24hrwits Nseries so multimedia oriented. and st nomadik should give nice power for decoding
20:16.57RST38hreads up on Nomadik
20:19.59RST38hSTM has got ARM11-based Nomadik parts right now
20:20.06RST38hWhy did Nokia use ARM9?
20:20.55*** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@86.56.69.25)
20:22.47*** join/#maemo tkharju (n=tkharju@84-253-200-161.satp.customers.dnainternet.fi)
20:25.22lcukGeneralAntilles, how can you call the hard work i've put in "cheating" ?  its lateral thinking
20:26.34GAN800What I mean to say is that it's not generally applicable.
20:26.53GAN800You seemed to be suggesting that there was no issue with the controller
20:27.01GAN800but there clearly is
20:29.59*** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@135.84-49-129.nextgentel.com)
20:30.03lcukagreed in principle, but in the face of the alternative (lowering resolution and using onboard framebuffer) was probably a worse solution
20:30.33lcukit works as it stands now, its allowed every single one of us to do lots of cool interesting stuff
20:31.26lcukso its not a failure as such, it just doesnt perform under normal load as expected - like a ferrari with a ford engine
20:31.31GAN800Point being, whatever you've managed to achieve, the controller is a big problem causer for video playback and x
20:32.03hrwbye
20:32.03GAN800OMAP3 solves the controller issue for everybody.
20:32.06lcukno, video playback is fine isnt it? that uses the same "cheat" i do - X11 native mode granted
20:32.13lcukcya hrw
20:32.17RST38hbye
20:32.23hrw|goneGAN800: if will be used properly
20:32.26lcukomap3 solves it better if the IVA is available
20:32.29GAN800It's limited in the amount of data you can push.
20:32.30lcukleaving the cpu to do much more
20:32.37RST38hIVA has no direct effect on this
20:32.41GAN800hrw, how do you mean?
20:32.57lcukIVA can decode video leaving cpu to do other things
20:33.06RST38hlcuk, IVA is an ARM7
20:33.12RST38hor ARM9 in OMAP3
20:33.16lcukand, its specialised for decoding
20:33.42lcukits a custom chip that i would rather was in use than sat idle
20:33.50RST38hIt can't really decode video very fast. I know, I tried. So it most likely feeds DSP with data, doing MPEG stream parsing
20:33.52GAN800Whatever the decoder, you wont have the horrifying tearing issues with OMAP3.
20:34.23GAN800The Cortex will likely do a lot better with NEON optimizations.
20:34.36RST38hGAN: Oh, we will. It is very easy to create a horrifying tearing issue! =)
20:35.24lcukRST38h, look at the current device, the cpu runs fullout trying to do everything itself whilst at least 2 ARM cores sit completely 100% idle, i really dont want a repeat
20:35.50lcukwe have been told one of those idle cores will be used, its a perfectly valid question to ask if the other one will be as well
20:35.56GAN800lcuk, that's fine, but irrelevant to the controller discussion.
20:36.11GAN800Two, actually
20:36.30GAN800The ISP will be used for the camera, I'm sure.
20:36.44*** join/#maemo JussiP (n=jpakkane@xdsl-83-145-207-155.nebulazone.fi)
20:36.57lcukthen we will get an answer in the affirmative and ill jump for joy :D
20:37.16lcukjust wants to use all the available features :)
20:37.38GAN800I don't think the IVA will really offer much
20:37.53lcukrealtime movie encoding and decode
20:37.59GAN800You're likely better off using the DSP or SIMD.
20:38.21GAN800The Cortex is a more capable decodee.
20:38.28GAN800r
20:38.49RST38hlcuk: What 2 ARM cores?
20:39.07RST38hlcuk: One is the main CPU and it is busy. The only idle one is the IVA
20:39.29GAN800PowerVR
20:39.37GAN800pressumably
20:39.38RST38hPowerVR is no ARM core
20:39.42lcukRST38h, there are currently 4 complete arm cores inside our 2420
20:39.53RST38hlcuk: Which ones?
20:39.55lcukits a customized convoluted core, but yes it is one
20:40.01lcukcpu, pvr, dsp, iva
20:40.11RST38hAFAIK, PowerVR has nothing to do with ARM
20:40.19lcukhave a look closer :)
20:40.19RST38hDSP has nothing to do with ARM either
20:40.33RST38hlcuk: Wel those bastards do not let me
20:44.03*** join/#maemo matt_c_ (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com)
20:44.05RST38hDOW 8579! Oh shit.
20:44.37lcukdamn lower than you suggested earlier
20:45.37RST38hit's crazy
20:45.45derfIt's awesome is what it is.
20:45.47*** join/#maemo bipolar (i=bflong@216-164-162-138.pa.subnet.cable.rcn.com)
20:46.12RST38hI can predict stuff but can't predict crazy shit
20:46.43GAN800Do I get to fight the zombies yet?
20:46.59RST38hGAN: The first wave is homeless stock brokers
20:47.30RST38hWhatever score you make there, becomes the second wave after it rots a bit
20:50.11lardman|tvIVA is an ARM9 on omap2 and is the DSP on omap3
20:50.18lardman|tvjust fyi
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20:51.04RST38hlardman: you mean, omap2 has ARM9+DSP and OMAP3 has just the DSP?
20:51.18lardmanyes
20:51.21*** join/#maemo greentux_ (n=lemke@BAA3a39.baa.pppool.de)
20:51.28lardmanomap2 has arm11 main core, + arm9 iva + dsp
20:51.57lardmanomap2 has cortex main core + dsp (which they call the iva)
20:52.08RST38hinteresting...so they basically got rid of the iva
20:52.33lardmanyes, and moved its functionality (presumably) inside the DSP
20:54.16*** join/#maemo gregorovius (n=diego@host154.190-31-241.telecom.net.ar)
20:56.11zapand the DSPs are cardinally different
20:56.12lcuklardman, looking at the block diagrams its not gone
20:56.27RST38hdepends
20:56.51lardmanlcuk: do you have an url?
20:57.15zapomap 2xxx uses TI54xx DSP, and 3xxx uses TI6xxx; it's like comparing x86_64 to a z80
20:57.19lardmanzap: yes, c55x vs c64x
20:57.42RST38hx86 i pretty similar to z80 =)
20:57.49zapyep
20:57.52lardmanhmm, not that large a difference (from what I've read), but certainly significant
20:58.03lcuksorry lardman, yes a distinct dsp as currently known isnt there, but the cores still have to be seperate
20:58.03lcukhttp://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12643&contentId=14649
20:58.03RST38hinstruction set wise, it is almost a superset, I would say :)
20:58.10GeneralAntillesGreat, Atom-guy is back on itT.
20:58.18zapti64xx executes 8 instructions every clock
20:58.19GeneralAntillesThis is after the 2nd time he said he'd never come back.
20:58.25lcukie powervr must operate without messing with cpu, and iva must operate without effecting the other stuff
20:58.26zapit's VLIW
20:58.37RST38hBuy him an ASUS already!
20:58.48lardmanlcuk: yes, but that's as it is on the omap2 as well
20:59.23GeneralAntilleslcuk, are you seriously arguing with DSP-man about the DSP? :P
20:59.24RST38hzap: is it pipelined or just has 8 ALUs in parallel?
20:59.32lcukyes, but on omap2, its a distinctly named and in function dsp
20:59.32lcukhttp://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=4671&navigationId=11990&templateId=6123
20:59.33zap8 ALUs
20:59.49zapevery command is 256 bits - 8 commands by 32 bits
20:59.49RST38hshould make a nice mpeg decoder =)
21:00.19zaplike always, DSPs are hard to program
21:00.27lardmanlcuk: yep that's the omap2420, on the omap3 the iva is the dsp
21:00.48zapTI has a optimizing C compiler though that parallelise computations; I'm not sure though if it's free
21:01.02lcukyes lardman, but we have the ISP as well now
21:01.10lardmanlcuk: though I see what you say about a separate ISP + IVA/DSP
21:01.16RST38hlardman: what about the second DSP box at that diaram?
21:01.17lcuki think they realised no1 was using the IVA on the omap2 ;)
21:01.22RST38hdiagram
21:01.24zapthe problem with IVA is that it's absolutely undocumented
21:01.29zapand TI64xx seems well documented
21:01.35lardmanlcuk: I'm sure we would have tried if they'd given us a clue hey? :)
21:01.45lcukyes zap, theres nothing about it, and it had lots of promise
21:01.49zapin fact, TI has opened a lot of info on OMAP35xx
21:01.50RST38hzap: it is ARM7. What is there to document other than how to restart it and share data with it?
21:01.56lcukespecially with the graphical problems we have on 8x0
21:02.02zapRST38h: you said it
21:02.20zapRST38h: you don't even know how to execute a NOP on it
21:02.30lardmanRST38h: I thought it was ARM9...?
21:02.38lcukits arm0 :(
21:02.44lardman:)
21:02.46RST38hlardman: I heard different opinions on the subject =)
21:02.51lcukor simply 'armless :D
21:02.52zapwhatever is it, it's useless undocumented :)
21:02.53lardmanyeah, me too
21:04.20BULLE_guess you guys can look at the openpandora to get omap3 info
21:04.58GeneralAntillesBULLE_, why in the world would you look at the Pandora?
21:05.03GeneralAntillesJust go straight to the source. . . .
21:05.41lcukor rather the binary blob ;)
21:05.46lardmanhmm, interesting, bit.c in libmad defines CHAR_BIT, that might be good
21:05.48GeneralAntilleshttp://focus.ti.com/dsp/docs/dspsupporttechdocs.tsp?sectionId=3&tabId=409&techDoc=6&documentCategoryId=6&familyId=1526
21:06.01bipolarhas anyone gotten Genesis Sync for SyncEvolution installed and working?
21:06.09GeneralAntilles"Open"Pandora
21:06.41lcukthanks GeneralAntilles :)
21:06.44GeneralAntilleslcuk, the PowerVR driver isn't publicly available yet. ;)
21:07.50lcukyou have to wonder: as a chip designer how much you would change between one revision and the next.
21:08.00GeneralAntillesWhat revision?
21:08.41lcukany, think of most of your normal code, you dont just rewrite the whole thing from scratch.  i wonder how much hacking it would take to try to fire up the pvr using the newer driver when it comes out
21:09.19GeneralAntillesUm
21:09.26GeneralAntillesI've answered that question before
21:09.37GeneralAntillesThey're not remotely similar
21:09.55GeneralAntillesSXG vs MBX
21:10.11GeneralAntillesWe can even use the OMAP2430 driver to get the OMAP2420's PowerVR going.
21:10.15GeneralAntilless/can/can't/
21:10.25RST38hlcuk: you are making a little mistake ;)
21:10.48lcukdoesnt mind making mistakes :)
21:10.51RST38hlcuk: Most ARM-based SoC designs are not really designed in one place. Instead, they are combined from multiple IP blocks
21:11.28RST38hlcuk: So, these guys do not have to continue with OAP2 design. They can just take a different set of blocks, glu them together, and this will be OMAP3
21:11.59lcukyes, but you don't just throw away all the code or layout or interface designs just because its new.  GeneralAntilles has already given biggest reason this would fail so its ok, but was just a ponderment
21:12.03RST38hSome things do stay the same though, mainly because there are formal and informal standards in ARM-based design
21:17.51*** join/#maemo Raytray (n=raytray@unaffiliated/raytray)
21:20.27Stskeeps~curse sb2
21:20.28infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, sb2 !
21:20.29lardmanlcuk: there's actually some source floating about for the SGX so I see on the pandora.org forum
21:20.49lardmans/pandora/openpandora
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21:21.57GAN800lardman, you see Quim's thread on -developers?
21:22.18GAN800Need to get Nokia to throw some manpower behind the barcode reader.
21:22.51lardmanlcuk: isp looks like it's just a camera interface
21:23.07GAN800^
21:23.11lardmanwhich can do things like jpeg compression
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21:24.10lardmanGAN800: not sure, will check now
21:24.10lardmansoftware prime time?
21:24.17GAN800Yeah
21:24.19lcukResizer is a HW block in Camera ISP which is responsible for image downscaling and upscaling
21:24.24lcukPreview is a HW block in Camera ISP which is responsible for image processing and color conversion.
21:24.43lcuk3A is a HW block in Camera ISP which is responsible for collecting image statistics that can be used by other algorithms
21:24.55lcukall useful things :)
21:25.00RST38hsleep.
21:25.09lcukand that as well lardman
21:25.20solmumahaGeneralAntilles: have time to test my fix?
21:25.22lardmanyeah, depends whether it's hooked directly to the camera input though
21:25.33GAN800solmuhaha
21:25.39lcukit appears to be feedable from multiple sources
21:25.47GAN800Not at the moment.
21:25.58GAN800s/gibberish/tab-completion/
21:26.02lcukeither way, as with anything else :) i just want it working, and looking at the notes drivers will be available for it
21:26.02solmumahak
21:26.20solmumahamaybe i should ask help from itt :s
21:28.00solmumahai just had the worst task a man can imagine
21:28.19lcuksolmumaha, whats the problem?
21:28.46solmumahai'd like people to test my app a bit before releasing it
21:28.56lcukon the device?
21:29.00lcukand what does it do
21:29.15solmumahait's a server/client based video streaming app
21:29.38lcukcool, gimme a mo and count me in
21:29.49lcuki was gonna look at playing with something like this
21:30.08solmumahait's not pretty but should somewhat work
21:30.31lcukheh :) proof of concept is better than nothing
21:30.38solmumahabut it's not for windows
21:30.40lcukliqbase is entirely poc
21:30.46lcukfor maemo i hope
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21:31.01solmumahayes, but server only works on linux/bsd/os x
21:31.07lcukive got 2 n810s
21:31.13lcukthat should work?
21:31.26solmumahawhat os you have on desktop?
21:31.39lcukwindows
21:31.45solmumaha:(
21:31.52solmumahafail!
21:31.53lcukcant one of my 810s be server?
21:32.05solmumahano, sorry
21:32.08lcukdoes everything else on his 8109
21:32.14lcukwhats missing from it?
21:32.38lardmanlcuk: it's a sign, install Linux! ;)
21:32.38solmumahavlc 0.9 and juice to transcode video :)
21:32.44lcukhahahahah
21:32.54lcuktranscoding?
21:32.58lcukoooer missus
21:33.15lcuklardman, but but but but but i dont wanna
21:33.18lcukhuggles xp
21:33.31solmumahayes, it allows you to play videos from your desktop machine like they are local
21:33.33lcukhey, hang on ill fire up the laptop
21:33.36lcukthats got ubuntu on it
21:33.45lcuki hate that laptop now
21:33.46solmumahasupports seeking and all
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21:34.07lcukahhh i thought it would stream video from camera
21:34.19lcukhas a plan for doing just that
21:34.52lcukso solmumaha could i run your server within vmware if its so configured
21:35.05solmumahasure
21:35.12lcukok, thats easy
21:35.22solmumahaif your tablet can connect to it
21:35.38lcukyes, i send my source to it to get it to build packages for me
21:35.48solmumahahardy?
21:36.02lcukyer, but i prefer to wear a jacket
21:36.56solmumahak, add deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/c-korn/ubuntu hardy main to apt
21:37.04solmumahaand apt-get install ruby vlc
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21:37.22solmumahaafter apt-get update of course :)
21:37.30derfGAN800: What -developers thread?
21:38.20lcukderf "Pushing community software to prime time"
21:38.28*** join/#maemo croppa (n=stuart@135.27.233.220.exetel.com.au)
21:39.58lardmanderf: you tested on device yet?
21:40.07derfMust not be archived yet.
21:40.12derflardman: Working on it right now.
21:40.36lardmanderf: it's on -community actually
21:40.44derfOh, that would explain why I can't find it.
21:42.13lcukdamn!  solmumaha have a different problem, and it might be more convoluted to get running - whilst ive got lan access vmware cant get out into the wide world, ill have a bit of a hack at it, but i dont wanna try too much incase i make problem worse
21:42.34solmumahanp
21:43.09lcukbut where do i get your n8x0 client so if i get it working i can test it
21:43.40solmumahai wrote a sucky page for it: http://nakkiboso.com/knots/index.php
21:43.57lcukthats about 1000000x less sucky than mine ;)
21:44.06lcukhttp://liqbase.net/ :P
21:44.12lcukadds a link to the .deb
21:44.16lcukand src
21:44.32solmumahahaha, maybe a fraction worse
21:44.53solmumahamy page validates without the youtube video :p
21:46.01solmumahait should be quite user-friendly after you get all dependencies installed
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21:53.58lcuksolmumaha, that looks quite cool - ive saved link  if i get the laptop fired up ill try again from there
21:55.20lcukcyas later folks
21:56.34solmumahagn
21:56.39lbtgn
21:57.16solmumahaanyone know of licenses btw? can i use bsd license with gpl stuff?
21:58.10mgedminyou can combine bsd and gpl stuff if you publish the result under gpl
21:58.40solmumahawhat if my app is bsd and it uses gpl icons?
21:59.02solmumahai haven't made changes to gpl stuff
21:59.19mgedminshould not be a problem, as long as you don't include the gpl bits into your source or link them into your binary...
21:59.20mgedminIANAL
22:00.06solmumaha:)
22:00.26solmumahathanks
22:00.48solmumahait's written in ruby so i'm not linking to anything and i'm giving credit to gpl authors
22:01.18solmumahamaybe it would be easier to just change it to gpl, i really don't care about it
22:03.12solmumahabsd is just so much shorter
22:11.10*** part/#maemo mk8 (n=torello@151.16.202.72)
22:12.10lardmannight all
22:16.47moontigerwho wrote liqbase??
22:16.58lcukme :)
22:16.58crashanddiemoontiger, lcuk
22:17.17crashanddiehow the fuck did you miss it?
22:17.23crashanddieThe YouTube videos are by lcuk
22:17.30crashanddiethe screen yells "Gary Birket"
22:17.41crashanddieand the main screen says "contact lcuk on #maemo"
22:17.48crashanddiehell, even error messages tell you to contact him
22:17.53lcukheh
22:18.15lcukactually youtube is lcukmaemo
22:18.25lcukis pissin his sides
22:18.43lcukraises a beer to seb
22:18.53moontigerim busy with other stuff so i just asked .... put your knickers back on
22:19.20lcukdoes
22:19.23lcukwhy do you ask?
22:19.32lcukfears he has blown up his machien
22:19.38crashanddielcuk, i'm outa beer :(
22:19.41moontigerbecause i wanted to say i own the patents on that stuff so im going to sue you :)~
22:19.47moontigerno
22:19.47lcuknot for lone
22:19.50lcuklong
22:19.59moontigerreally i wanted to say fukin A ... it looks awesome
22:20.07moontiger:)
22:20.13lcukyes moontiger, it does and it feels good to use it as well
22:20.30moontigeris it installable now?
22:20.32lcukfind a way for me to develop it further and i will have you babies :)
22:20.34moontigeror still in dev?
22:20.35lcukyes, theres a deb
22:20.38crashanddielcuk.pride -= 10;
22:20.43lcukits installable, but not yet in extras
22:20.55moontigeryou will have my babies??
22:20.59moontigerponders that
22:21.09crashanddiehey
22:21.13crashanddieyou're not allowed to ask
22:21.15crashanddieI'm in line first
22:21.30moontigerlcuk ... u can have babies?
22:21.50lcuki can do many things for the right money
22:21.56moontigerlaughs
22:22.08moontigerok cos we have completely the wrong bits for you to have my babies
22:22.18moontigerbut with enough money i guess all is possible
22:22.20moontiger;)
22:22.42lcukim sure we can buy a womb somewhere, either that or theres one going unused inside my n810 at the moment
22:22.53moontigerlaughs
22:23.10lcukthe test .deb is available on here
22:23.11lcukhttp://liqbase.net/
22:23.11moontigerwhat does it use for storage?
22:23.15lcukflat files
22:23.17moontigerliqbase ... not the womb
22:23.37moontigerand you read them into a bitmap and scroll that?
22:23.43lcukno, live drawing
22:23.47lcukrendering^
22:23.49moontigerreally??
22:23.54lcukyeah :) 100% live
22:24.00moontigerfrom stroke files?
22:24.07lcukscrollable resizable vector graphics
22:24.08lcukyes
22:24.10crashanddiehe stores every point :)
22:24.14moontigerhahaha
22:24.15moontigeruh huh
22:24.35crashanddieoh, btw, lcuk
22:24.39lcukthe stamp tool rules :)
22:24.45lcukyeah
22:24.47moontigerdoesnt he need to store sub-points for sub-pixel rendering?
22:24.50crashanddielcuk, test area, you know how it displays images are they are loaded?
22:24.51moontiger:rollseyes:
22:25.02lcukyeah
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22:25.26lcukmoontiger, unfortunately i store points at display resolution, however i could use the native touchsensor resolution which is a lot higher
22:25.35moontigeri was kidding
22:25.38moontigerpoints would be fine
22:25.40crashanddielcuk, should have the same for the wall
22:26.00lcukim also seriously considering storing everything at 22500dpi and doing full scaling at runtime
22:26.29lcuk(theres a bug at present where loading a sketch saved at 800*480 into editor on 400*240 looks too big
22:26.41lcukcrashanddie, what do you mean the wall?
22:26.42lcuksome what
22:26.50crashanddiesketch wall
22:26.56lcukyeah, do what to it?
22:27.05crashanddiehave progressive loading
22:27.09lcukit does
22:27.11crashanddieoh
22:27.12crashanddieok
22:27.13crashanddie:-°
22:27.24lcukyou just dont notice it cos you only have a few sketches
22:27.27*** join/#maemo blade_runner (n=arezende@200.184.118.132)
22:27.35lcukit kills me cos i cant kinetic for ~20 seconds
22:27.40lcuki cry and want to fix it
22:28.24lcukthe amount of bright red sketches ive got saying "fix lazyload" is shocking :)
22:29.15lcukbut thats for another day, i think im gonna change the location of the lazyloading so that it doesnt start over again when i close graffiti
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22:39.11moontigernice work lcuk ... really
22:39.15moontigerwell done
22:39.26lcuk:) thanks
22:39.36moontigerwritten in C?
22:39.39lcukyes
22:39.44moontigerschweet
22:40.03lcukive really enjoyed picking up all my old habits :)
22:40.31moontigeryes im starting to code in C now too ... i like pythin but C is my home (and c++)
22:40.39moontigerpython too
22:41.02lcukthe last time i touched c before this year was in #99
22:41.04lcuk'99
22:41.08moontigerwow really?
22:41.14moontigerwhat u been doing since then???
22:41.23lcukyeah, ive been coasting in visual basic for far too long ;)
22:41.30moontigerahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh he said the V word
22:41.54moontigerruns aroiund screaming
22:42.33lcukbut you best thank it, cos its kept my mind sharp.  making a complex vb program run well is as much an art as making a c program run excellently
22:42.46mgedminthere's nothing wrong with the V word, but the B word should not be spoken in polite company
22:42.55lcukits just syntax
22:43.06mgedminplus cultural baggage
22:44.11moontigeryou're right lcuk ... .i was kidding :)
22:44.38lcukheh, mgedmin i didnt realise you had taken over hte convo, hiya
22:44.57mgedminhi
22:45.16lcuki haven't told anyone by the way
22:45.40mgedminblinks and searches his unclean conscience for any dirty secrets that lcuk might know
22:45.53lcukmuahahahahahha
22:46.36derfDamn, lardman|gone is gone.
22:46.55lcukyeah derf, i saw him drop out earlier
22:47.31lcukright, i must dash, ive gotta align about 50 styles
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23:03.02moontigerim heading home ... finished teaching for the day :)
23:03.06moontigerlaterz
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23:33.54cyrus__Do you have to run the hildon desktop environment or can you replace it with something like lxde?
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23:38.12menthi
23:38.50mentany hints for mp3 player for maemo that doesn't suck?
23:39.29ment(tried canola, youamp, builtin media player)
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23:40.13mgedminif you find one, tell me
23:40.32mgedminthe builtin media player is the least sucky one in my experience
23:40.43mgedminit sucks a lot, but others suck even more
23:40.45menti hate that media library thing
23:41.10mgedminI hate the 2-second delay for every action
23:41.21mgedminI hate how you cannot skip to next song if you've stopped playing
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23:41.35menthmm i've never got that far
23:41.41mgedminI hate how it doesn't show the full filename
23:42.04mgedminso if you have mp3 files with artist - album - title and no tags inside, you have no chance to see what the tracks are
23:43.18mentwho would care for usability as long as it looks like iphone (this is the case of canola)
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