IRC log for #maemo on 20080930

00:00.08GeneralAntillesOr don't
00:00.08GeneralAntillesprobably doesn't matter
00:00.09GeneralAntillesbut it's useless now.
00:00.16GeneralAntillesRun an apt-get -f install to be sure
00:00.20GeneralAntillesBut I think you're good.
00:00.33GeneralAntillesNokia doesn't make it easy to try a second time with their stupid repository setup. . . .
00:01.11guerbyhmm E: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/.
00:01.27guerbyneed to get 46.6 M of archive
00:01.38GeneralAntillesIt should be caching to mmc2. . . .
00:01.40guerbyI didn't upgrade in a while, probably too much at once
00:01.51guerbyGeneralAntilles, do you know where is the setting?
00:01.53crashanddieGeneralAntilles, not apt-get
00:01.56GeneralAntillesWell, application manager caches to mmc2.
00:02.00guerbyah
00:02.05crashanddieguerby, rm /var/cache/apt/archives/*
00:02.06GeneralAntillesotherwise you could symlink it.
00:02.13guerbycrashanddie, it's empty
00:02.27guerbymay update a few ones manually in app manager
00:02.41crashanddiemkdir -p /media/mmc2/apt/archives/partial
00:03.01crashanddierm /var/cache/apt/archives
00:03.16crashanddieln -s /media/mmc2/apt/archives /var/cache/apt/archives
00:04.09guerbyhmm Operating System is listed at 34 MB
00:04.20crashanddieGeneralAntilles, microb seems to be faster
00:04.35GeneralAntillescrashanddie, you missed two speed-boosting upgrades. ;)
00:06.01GeneralAntillesBy the way, Jaffa is the genius of the hour: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3566#c14
00:07.32crashanddienow if only I could get microb to not piss me about "unencrypted pages" as soon as a fill out a form
00:07.34crashanddieI'd be in heaven
00:07.36henriquehey, how do I can to write to the internal memory (mmc2)?
00:10.01henriqueit seems to be locked, but on storage details the "read-only" checkbox is disabled
00:11.01GeneralAntilleshenrique, sounds corrupted.
00:11.03GeneralAntillesN810?
00:11.07henriqueyes
00:11.21henriqueGeneralAntilles, how can I fix it then
00:11.26GeneralAntillesProbably still a messed up internal partition table.
00:11.36crashanddiehenrique, open up a terminal
00:11.56GeneralAntilleshttp://tabletschool.blogspot.com/2008/03/do-you-use-built-in-memory-card-on-n810.html
00:12.23k-sX-Fade: I just tried the maemo-sdk-dev and still lacks libmodest*
00:12.29k-sX-Fade: idea?
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00:13.13GeneralAntillesk-s, wrong person to ask. ;)
00:13.15zapthats a obvious fix, I guess why Nokia didn't use it from the beginning
00:13.23henriqueformatting
00:14.12zapdamnit, SSU f*d my device
00:14.18GeneralAntillesk-s, I'd try -developers
00:14.18k-sGeneralAntilles: he said today morning that he/someone was doing update about that
00:14.22GeneralAntillesor maybe bug Soumya
00:14.24zaphates when it happens again
00:14.25yacoobBah. Why there's no latest image on nokia pages?
00:14.36k-sGeneralAntilles: that's why I'm asking :-)
00:14.47GeneralAntillesyacoob, supposedly they should be providing one.
00:14.48henriqueok, fixed...  crashanddie thanks!
00:14.59crashanddieNo problem
00:15.05crashanddiewhat did I do?
00:15.16yacooblatest there is, is 23-14
00:15.45crashanddie~adblock
00:15.52crashanddie~flashblock
00:16.03GeneralAntillesbrowser-extras.garage.maemo.org
00:16.14crashanddiecheers
00:16.42yacoobthere was also a gears for microb...
00:17.36yacoobalthough pretty proof-of-concept
00:21.31zapdamnit
00:21.36zapwhat package contains the initfs?
00:22.18GeneralAntillesinitfs-flasher
00:23.05zapworked, ty
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00:38.23Sargun_ScreenHow many people are going to OP
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01:03.39guerbyok my n810 is back to normal, thx for your help guyes
01:03.46guerbyand good night :)
01:12.25Sargun_ScreenOk.
01:12.27Sargun_ScreenNo problem
01:12.35Sargun_Screen(Not like I helped you)
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02:58.55moontigerso the update didnt exactly make modest any more useful *sigh*
02:59.09GeneralAntillesIt was a bugfix release.
02:59.12GeneralAntillesWhat did you expect?
02:59.39KotCzarnymoontiger, what would make modest more useful for you?
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03:02.37moontigeri was just hoping is all :)
03:02.45moontigeri just saw a g-phone in the wild
03:02.57moontigerit looks way cooler than in shots ive seen online
03:03.07KotCzarnyis it fast?
03:03.15moontigeryah it looked really snappy
03:03.31moontigerthe touch scrolling is at least as good as the stuff on n810
03:03.49moontigerand its smaller and thinner than i thought it would be
03:03.50ricko73gsm coverage still sucks here
03:04.02moontigeryah it seemed to be loading pages real fast
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03:04.26moontigerand when u pop out the keyboard to type messages the screen rotates landscape ... unlike the iphone
03:04.32moontigeri was impressed
03:04.54KotCzarnyiphone doesn't have a kb
03:04.55KotCzarny:)
03:06.54moontigerheh yah i know ... but when they cant type msgs in landscape
03:07.12moontigeranyways i was impressed like i say ... and i didnt think i would be
03:07.13KotCzarnytheir screen res sucks
03:07.20KotCzarnythat's why no landscape probably
03:07.21KotCzarny:)
03:07.24moontigeryah
03:07.42moontiger<--- doesnt like iphones
03:07.56KotCzarnyplatform as many others
03:08.12KotCzarnyshiny, vendor lockin
03:08.16KotCzarny:)
03:10.10moontigeryeah i know and that will stop me buying one .... but it was nicer than i thought
03:10.22gregoroviusanybody knows when canola beta 10 might be out?
03:10.34KotCzarnygreg: i guess i saw people installing it?
03:11.23GeneralAntillesgregorovius, soon.
03:11.25GeneralAntillesThey're working on it.
03:12.21gregoroviusKotCzarny: it's in extras-devel, but I don't think it's installable yet
03:12.21GeneralAntillesgregorovius, that was a mistake.
03:12.21gregoroviusyeah, I read that
03:12.41gregoroviusI was looking for a more precise answer, like 'this week'? =)
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03:19.34GeneralAntillesgregorovius, it's in troubleshooting stage.
03:19.37GeneralAntillesAs soon as it's ready.
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04:21.55prakdoes anyone know of a good task management application that would sync with todoist.com?
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04:37.25prakdoes anyone know of a good task management application that would sync with todoist.com?
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05:00.47prakwhat would be a good synchronization software that would sync gpe-todo with todoist.com and other links?
05:00.53KotCzarny...
05:01.00KotCzarnyask on mailing list
05:01.14KotCzarnyapparently you don't get your answer on irc
05:01.15KotCzarny:)
05:02.00praki already asked on the mailing lists
05:02.17prakjust thought i may get a faster question on irc
05:02.40KotCzarnybut i saw you asking it for a few last days
05:02.51KotCzarnyand most of the people there are regulars
05:03.00KotCzarnyand not that we are ignoring your question
05:03.01KotCzarny:)
05:03.20KotCzarnyunless you are someone else
05:03.23praki just thought that my message was ignored or didn't go through
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05:03.28KotCzarnyand my visual memory is playing tricks
05:05.42praki apologize for flooding the questions repeatedly
05:06.22KotCzarny:)
05:06.42praki guess i would have to wait from a reply on the mailing list then
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05:11.40KotCzarnyhi qwerty
05:11.48KotCzarnymorning irc dose?
05:11.52qwerty12hi KotCzarny
05:12.03qwerty12No, need to finish some work :P
05:12.11KotCzarnyon irc?
05:12.13KotCzarny:)
05:12.52qwerty12Well... I guess not, but my computer's on so I may as well join :P
05:13.06KotCzarnywho you wanna cheat :P
05:14.17qwerty12If anyone is good at Business studies here... :P
05:15.10KotCzarny:)
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05:51.40moontigerso im curious about the ssu
05:51.54moontigerit was a 12.8mb download and reqd 33mb of memory
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05:52.03moontigerand there is nothing significant i can see
05:52.07moontigerwtf did they do?
05:52.09Proteousssu?
05:52.16KotCzarnyinstalled a backhole
05:52.22Proteoussuper spastic underwear?
05:52.24moontigerlaughs
05:52.35Proteousbackdoor?
05:52.46KotCzarnybackintosh
05:52.50Proteousbackwash
05:52.50moontigeri mean dsl is only just smaller than 33mb for a whole distro
05:52.54KotCzarnybackspace
05:53.03Proteousbackupatyou
05:53.16KotCzarnybackyouhellspawn
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05:53.23Proteousbackula
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05:53.30KotCzarnybackbit
05:53.45Proteousbackrabbit
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05:53.51qwerty12I'd rather not
05:54.04KotCzarnybackboot
05:54.10Proteousbackdoorcatiswatchingyoutype
05:54.23KotCzarnybackturbation
05:54.42Proteousbackwardshatisforn00bs
05:55.01KotCzarnybackshish
05:55.10Proteousbackscratch
05:55.17KotCzarnybackslap
05:55.19moontigeroh well ... im off to bed then ... to ponder the mystery of the huge update for nothing
05:55.21Proteousbackindex
05:55.25KotCzarnybackbed
05:55.29Proteousbacktag
05:55.34KotCzarnybackdate
05:55.42ProteousbackitUP
05:55.49KotCzarnybackleup
05:55.52Proteousbackslash
05:56.00KotCzarnybackend
05:56.05Proteousbackdoorgnome
05:56.11KotCzarnybackadonna
05:56.16Proteousbackofthefridge
05:56.38KotCzarnybackstreetboys
05:56.44Proteousbackwhereit'sdark
05:57.00KotCzarnybackopotammus
05:57.08Proteousbackbackbackbackbackbackbackmushroommushroom
05:57.22qwerty12backshot
05:57.28KotCzarnybacketamine
05:57.48Proteousbackaine
05:58.04KotCzarnybackihuana
05:58.32Proteousbackitch
05:58.37KotCzarnybacksucker
05:58.51Stskeepsbored people :P
05:58.59KotCzarnybackedpeople
05:59.01KotCzarny:P
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05:59.51KotCzarnybackstorm
05:59.59qwerty12is thankful for portable shit. I've 'obtained' 3 different versions of office and they all give me bs during install
06:00.17KotCzarnybackorifice :P
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06:00.33KotCzarnyor was it backoffice
06:00.37Proteousboth
06:00.41KotCzarnyi know
06:00.53qwerty12the logo for backorifice was some wierd stuff
06:00.54ProteousbackCDC
06:00.58KotCzarnyjust asking what was he installing
06:01.08KotCzarnycdc?
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06:01.43Proteouscult of the dead cow
06:01.47KotCzarnyahm
06:02.02KotCzarnyqwerty: portable shit brings 2g1c imagery
06:02.28qwerty12KotCzarny, *sigh*
06:02.29KotCzarnyback.avi
06:02.49KotCzarnyqwerty: so please, don't swear
06:02.50KotCzarny:)
06:03.33qwerty12Sorry, it's an habit that has been etched forever on my brain :/. But I prefer swearing to watching 2g1c
06:04.04KotCzarnyi have weeded out habitual swearing around my college end
06:04.33qwerty12but you don't come from London ;)
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06:05.05Proteousswearing is like caffine, it's much more effective/enjoyable if you don't use it all the time
06:05.06KotCzarnythere are worse places than london
06:05.38qwerty12Indeed, there is. My point is that I'm hearing it all the time anyway
06:05.44Proteousthen when you need it, BAM! feels great
06:05.50KotCzarny:)
06:06.06KotCzarnyqwerty: but consider you are the part of the unending swearing
06:06.31KotCzarnyjust install some linguistic firewall
06:06.37Proteousheh
06:07.27qwerty12Meh, I do the opposite. I have some greasemonkey script that attempts to "unhide" swearing
06:07.44KotCzarnyturning everything to shit?
06:07.54KotCzarnynow, that's sick
06:07.58qwerty12Worked well when it thought ProStreet was PornStreet...
06:08.07KotCzarnyShitStreet
06:08.09KotCzarny;)
06:08.41qwerty12Nah, it's more intelligent than that
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06:08.57KotCzarnybut will it blend?
06:09.32qwerty12now knows why I keep my ITT PM Box intentionally full
06:12.52rmrfchikre
06:13.00rmrfchikI see updates 36-2...
06:13.24rmrfchikis there any changelog?
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06:23.45Proteouspack of 2 4gb flash drives for $20 including shipping on http://www.woot.com/
06:24.05Proteouswell, for those in the USA
06:24.05KotCzarnysd or cf?
06:24.12ProteousUSB flash drives
06:24.16qwerty12~lart them for not shipping to UK
06:24.16infobotchops them in half with a free AOL CD for not shipping to UK
06:24.17KotCzarnybah.
06:24.33KotCzarnyalthough may be useful for misc tests
06:25.08puslingmy harddrive is running full. how to clean up ?
06:25.20Proteoussandisk finaly went offical with the 16gb microSDHC
06:25.22Proteoushttp://www.sandisk.com/Corporate/PressRoom/PressReleases/PressRelease.aspx?ID=4398
06:25.25puslingapt-get clean didn't free anything.
06:25.36qwerty12apt-get remove --purge pr0n
06:25.37Proteoustry apt-get takeOutTrash
06:25.52rmrfchikhey, guys, I dig internets and can't find the changelog for new SSU
06:25.52KotCzarnypusling: clone to sd
06:25.57Proteousapt-get; rm -rf /
06:27.01puslingand how am I supposed to uninstall software with the application manager when there is a few dependencies involved ?
06:27.15Proteousug, I hate that
06:27.39puslingI can of course go apt-get, but isn't "application manager" the tool users should use ?
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06:29.11KotCzarnypusling, automatic deps removing could end up in removing every single package
06:29.13KotCzarny:)
06:29.42MakeGhoonly if it's badly implemented
06:30.35puslingKotCzarny: I installed a game which had three packages with circular dependencies in between them, so I couldn't even start "from the top"
06:30.55KotCzarnythen it's a bug
06:31.04KotCzarnywhich should be filled
06:31.50puslingand upgrades does also seem to be one package at a time instead of pasing all packages at the same time, and when there is strict dependencies involved, that will also fail
06:32.09KotCzarnyis it me or it would be nice if someone invented 4x microsd to 1x sd adapter?
06:32.36KotCzarnyshouldn't be hard because sds allow for daisy chaining
06:32.37KotCzarnyi think
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06:33.12KotCzarnyimagine 128gb worth of microsds in n800
06:33.13KotCzarny;)
06:33.59|thunderyou guys see the new user agent on n800 ?
06:34.00|thunderFirefox/3.0a1 Tablet browser 0.3.7 RX-34+RX-44+RX-48_DIABLO_4.2008.36-5
06:34.07JaffaMorning, all
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06:34.15qwerty12|thunder, It changes with each ssu update
06:34.18Jaffa|thunder: and?
06:34.27puslingwtf is "pre-installed-documentation-rx44" ?  The OS2008 feature upgrade depends on it.
06:34.32qwerty12Morning, Jaffa
06:34.41|thunderit changed from mozilla to firefox
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06:35.20Jaffapusling: User manual PDFs
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06:36.06KotCzarnyanyway, nite nite people
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06:36.14puslingJaffa: hmm.. I never read those yet and don't think I need them, but unremovable :/
06:36.25JaffaJust delete the PDFs themselves
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06:41.15puslingis /home/user/MyDocs/.documents  somewhere on the flash or on the internal memory ?
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06:44.45Jaffapusling: everything's internal by default
06:45.25puslingJaffa: n810 has internal memory and internal flash and external memory (mini sd)
06:46.14JaffaYes, I know.
06:46.26JaffaEverything's on the internal "memory" by default
06:47.19Jaffa<PROTECTED>
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07:04.04puslingis there a way to tell maemo mapper where to store cached maps ?
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07:06.47puslinghah. symlinks.
07:06.50Stskeepsyeah, look in repo settings or something
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07:07.15rmrfchikpusling: there is a setting for each map type
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07:08.01puslingah. repo settings.
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07:10.13Proteoushahaha, someone bought a VPN device on ebay, after plugging it in he found that it autoconnected to the previous owners confidential servers
07:10.24Fatal\o/
07:10.27puslingis maemo mapper reading the entire mapfile into memory ?
07:12.24rmrfchiksure no.
07:12.24Fatalpusling: I would like to ask you to think about it
07:14.01puslingI know it would be silly, but maemo mapper is just so much slower with a big map file.
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07:22.37RST38hhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/29/AR2008092902762.html?nav=rss_email/components
07:23.04RST38h(the author has just had amental breakdown)
07:23.55Stskeepsstock market losses? :P
07:24.21RST38heverything together, although I guess that for this particular guy it was his personal stock losses =)
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07:46.25aquatixProteous: :)
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08:01.27slonopotamushello
08:01.55slonopotamussomebody interrupted builder1 now
08:02.16X-Fadeslonopotamus: Let me check..
08:02.30slonopotamusX-Fade, funny log
08:02.34slonopotamushttps://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/db_4.6.21-8maemo1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt
08:02.45slonopotamuslooks like it didn't hang
08:02.55slonopotamusit just took almost a day to run logging tests
08:03.08slonopotamusman, that builder is 50 times slower then my n800
08:03.23qwerty12Your N800 isn't emulating an ARM processor.
08:03.30X-Fadeslonopotamus: OOM? perhaps?
08:03.51slonopotamusqwerty, well, that emulator doesn't run an 400mhz, uh?
08:04.07X-Fadeslonopotamus: I think Ed's advice is the better solution to this problem?
08:04.09qwerty12Maybe not, but qemu's arm emulation sucks balls.
08:04.38slonopotamusi will disable tests. the good point is that my tcl build actually works
08:04.51slonopotamusit's only extremely slow (on some tasks?) under qemu
08:05.07slonopotamusother tests have reasonable times
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08:06.02slonopotamusmaybe you should use arm devices for arm builders... :)
08:07.42slonopotamusshould i file a bugreport somewhere (qemu)?
08:07.50GeneralAntillesActually, that's not a terrible idea to look into.
08:08.05GeneralAntillesIs there $1000 lying around anywhere to pick up a cluster of Beagles? :P
08:08.05X-Fadeslonopotamus: We have actually discussed that at the summit ;)
08:08.20slonopotamusX-Fade, arm-based builders?
08:08.34X-Fadeslonopotamus: yes
08:08.36slonopotamusX-Fade, and?
08:08.46X-Fadeslonopotamus: Well, just that ;)
08:08.57slonopotamusX-Fade, oh :) i see. just discussed.
08:09.16GeneralAntillesAlternatively, get Mojo to give up some hours.
08:09.32slonopotamusMojo - ?
08:09.37GeneralAntilleshttp://mojo.handhelds.org/
08:10.20GeneralAntillesX-Fade, where's the builder source?
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08:10.41X-FadeGeneralAntilles: extras-cauldron on garage.
08:11.28slonopotamusat least now i have a weapon against bad builders.
08:11.29slonopotamusmuahaha
08:11.48X-Fadeslonopotamus: We can always revoke your key ;)
08:11.57slonopotamus:(
08:12.03qwerty12X-Fade = evil
08:12.11X-Fadeslonopotamus: Nah, but we need to find a fix.
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08:12.49slonopotamusgood bug - always reproducible bug
08:12.58Kegetysis there some way to disable the "usb device not supported"/"no file system available" messages when plugging in usb devices?
08:13.08X-Fadeslonopotamus: Well, it is probably just slow. (somehow)
08:13.21slonopotamusi grant you my package so you can test whether that bug is fixed
08:13.26slonopotamusit is slow.
08:13.32X-Fadeslonopotamus: Did you try to build it inside scratchbox?
08:13.43slonopotamus15 hours for logging tests!
08:13.53slonopotamusit takes 15 minutes on n800
08:13.59slonopotamusi don't have scratchbox, sorry
08:14.12qwerty12Kegetys, http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/06/02/feel-the-power-of-usb-with-nokia-tablet/ - if you can recompile a kernel, try that. if not, I'll modify ke-recv for you
08:14.56slonopotamusmaybe we could ask someone to try
08:15.21X-Fadeslonopotamus: I don't have time to test it in a scratchbox now, very busy today. But I should be able to tomorrow.
08:15.45X-FadeIf somebody wants to help test. Please? :)
08:15.54slonopotamusX-Fade, ok. as far as i understand, sources will be there until someone reuploads the package.
08:16.10slonopotamuslardman definitely doesn't want to test
08:16.17Kegetysqwerty12: well, the devices seem to work fine so there shouldn't be a problem there, just the pop-ups are a bit annoying
08:16.21X-Fadeslonopotamus: Yes. All we keep original sources for all 'failed' builds.
08:16.49X-Fadeslonopotamus: Yes, but lardman is a very lazy guy :D
08:17.06qwerty12I'd test but I need to reinstall grub
08:18.06slonopotamusis very lucky at (in? sorry, bad english) hitting ugly bugs
08:18.36slonopotamusand i hate that :)
08:18.40X-Fadeslonopotamus: You help in making it better.
08:19.54RST38hMoo, X-Fade, qwerty
08:20.03qwerty12Hey RST38h
08:20.12X-FadeHi RST38h
08:20.31slonopotamus"RST38h"... how do you read that?
08:20.43qwerty12RST38h, While you are here, have you ever had success compiling your emutools under *nix?
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08:23.19qwerty12will take that as a no :/
08:25.24RST38hqwerty: Yep
08:25.42RST38hqwerty: They compiled just fine for me. Is there any specific problem?
08:26.00RST38hslonopotamus: as an abbreviation
08:26.43qwerty12RST38h, Well, I saw no Makefile (yes, you all know I'm a n00b) so I merged it with emulib and used it's makefile to compile it. But I can't get all of it to compile :/
08:27.45RST38hWeird...No makefile? Lemme check
08:29.17RST38hYep. No makefile. It can only mean one thing: compile with gcc -o toolname -I. -I../EMULib toolname.c =)
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08:29.39qwerty12Ok, thanks, will try that :)
08:29.41RST38hAnd if there is a problem - let me know what the exact problem is
08:29.57RST38h[and I guess it is also a hint for me to release 'em with the correct makefile)
08:30.12qwerty12:P
08:32.10macouteand once again, could you dig osso-default-icons package from your NIT?
08:32.30macouteor do you have it, or should i have it? my upgrade didnt finish because of that package
08:32.35slonopotamuswanna broken package? just ask me :) some weird bug with mysql: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/mysql-dfsg-5.0_5.0.51a-15maemo1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt
08:33.39slonopotamus:(
08:33.59slonopotamusyour builders do not like me
08:34.11RST38hit is the same for everyone
08:34.45RST38hIn your particular case, it looks like the parser generator has failed
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08:35.04lardmanderf: ping
08:35.13RST38hlARDman
08:35.17macouteis there even a place like packages.debian.org for maemo? i havent found it at least...
08:35.22lardmanhi RST38h
08:35.28X-Fadeslonopotamus: That looks like a missing build dependency.
08:35.33RST38hmacoute: fms.komkon.org/Maemo/
08:35.43macouteRST38h: thanks
08:35.43slonopotamushuh :)
08:36.00slonopotamusthat _looks_ like missing dependency
08:36.01macouteRST38h: and there should be every package for maemo?
08:36.10slonopotamushowever that isn't
08:36.39lcukthrows a pig @ lardman
08:36.48lardmanand a BBQ?
08:36.55macouteRST38h: there is no osso-icons-default there :S
08:37.05macoutecould someone check if you have the package?
08:37.14qwerty12macoute, it's in passworded repo
08:37.14qwerty12how did you manage to remove it?
08:37.15lcukheh
08:37.20macouteit was called osso-icons-default or osso-default-icons. id go with the first one
08:37.28macouteqwerty12: i didnt. i was upgrading
08:37.42qwerty12Everyone has the package.
08:37.42qwerty12Who's going to be able to dpkg-repack it though?
08:37.57macouteqwerty12: its not available as a .deb?
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08:38.19qwerty12It comes by default on each tablet
08:38.19macouteif you have downloaded it (or reinstall it) it should turn out to /var/cache/apt/archives, doesnt it+
08:38.28qwerty12You must have removed it or another repo is messing up your tablet
08:38.42macoutetheres no other repos :)
08:38.50macouteand i havent removed it.
08:38.57macoutebut the nokias official ones
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08:39.07qwerty12If you know the password: http://repository.maemo.org/catalogue/updates/diablo/osso-icons-default_2.2.3_all.deb
08:39.12macoutei do. thanks
08:39.26macoutei dont remember them though, but ill dig it
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08:49.30aquatixhm, anyone knows whether fbreader changed their repository? it 404's here, while the .install file on their site is still the same
08:49.31qwerty12Doesn't really matter because fbreader is now in extras
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08:50.10lardmanI thought fbreader moved into Extras?
08:50.15aquatixoh
08:50.17aquatixthat might be it ;)
08:50.28lardmangive it a go, I just seem to remmber reading that
08:50.34aquatixdeletes the fbreader.org repository from his list
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08:54.11aquatix:(
08:58.15qwerty12~lart ati. shit linux drivers. shit windows drivers.
08:58.15infobotchops ati. shit linux drivers. shit windows drivers. in half with a free AOL CD
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09:01.54lcukaquatix, put the plug back in before we all drain away
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09:10.12GeneralAntillesandre___, what a mess with the versioning. <_<
09:10.51andre___yeah. maybe i should have waited 5min to add my last comment.... garrr
09:10.56andre___i didn't had http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1.1/ in mind
09:11.17X-FadeI wonder if we should go to 2008-32 as version number for an ssu versoion ;)
09:11.20andre___now shall i consider that URL also as "part of SDK"? :-P
09:11.41GeneralAntillesThere's a branding issue in there somewhere.
09:11.56GeneralAntillesMaemo 4.1.1 != Maemo SDK 4.1.1
09:12.10andre___what about "4.1-Update2 (4.2008.36-5)"? ;-)
09:12.16GeneralAntillessighs.
09:12.18GeneralAntilleswhat a mess
09:12.41GeneralAntillesI think we should just blame timeless and run away.
09:12.45andre___hehe
09:12.55GeneralAntillesHe's not here to defend himself for a while anyway. ;)
09:13.06andre___no, timeless is part of the good guys! :)
09:13.26andre___i think I want to go with "4.1-Update1" instead of 4.1.1 in Bugzilla. The renaming would probably take about 10min
09:13.27GeneralAntillesAll the more reason to sacrifice him to the bad guys. :P
09:13.54GeneralAntillesWhat about going with the build identifier?
09:13.55GeneralAntilles4.2008.36-5
09:14.06andre___which average reporter will understand that?!
09:14.26GeneralAntillesWhich average reporter understands 4.1.2.2123.123123412341234
09:14.30GeneralAntilles?
09:14.42andre___that's why i said "4.1-Update1" :)
09:14.47GeneralAntillesThe 4.x.x numbers basically have zero correspondence to reality at this point.
09:14.56GeneralAntillesandre___, relative numbers aren't super useful either.
09:15.16andre___wonders what happens if nokia provides a flash image AND an SSU update.... sigh
09:15.19GeneralAntilles"OK, let's see. I've installed . . . 3 SSU updates, so this must be update3"
09:15.28andre___argh, 3rd party software.... right
09:16.31X-FadeWe should use what About device shows?
09:16.31GeneralAntilles^
09:16.31GeneralAntillesI think that actually makes enough sense
09:16.31andre___i need super brain power to solve this!
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09:16.38X-FadeNo other way of easily identifying it.
09:16.38andre___gets a coffee
09:17.52GeneralAntillesWe're asking them to provide the build string for the version field anyway.
09:17.54andre___heh, right...
09:17.54GeneralAntillesThey're definitely not getting 4.0/4.1/4.1.1/4.1.2 right now.
09:18.34andre___but that brings up another problem
09:18.34lardmanwow that made a funny noise
09:18.34andre___in bugzilla, you cannot arbitrary sort versions.
09:18.34GeneralAntillesandre___, you're kidding me, right?
09:18.34andre___no. you can sort Target Milestones. you cannot sort versions. i know it's crazy
09:18.34GeneralAntillesstabs his eyes out.
09:18.34andre___so when 3.2009.45-1 comes out i have a problem
09:18.34GeneralAntillesRemotely patchable? :\
09:19.13andre___maybe there's a patch around, let me see...
09:19.42GeneralAntillesI can't imagine that we'd be the only people using Bugzilla with that issue.
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09:19.49andre___we're running a bugzilla 2. most folks out there are running bugzilla 3
09:19.50GeneralAntillesRight
09:20.24andre___maybe there's a patch for 3 that could be easily(TM) backported
09:20.29andre___queries mozilla bugzilla
09:21.13andre___no. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65317
09:22.00andre___garr. problem, problem.
09:23.01aquatixmeh
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09:24.59GeneralAntillesandre___, 1.Nokiasux 2.Nokiasux 3.Nokiasux
09:25.37andre___i beg to differ, young gentleman. it sometimes just takes a bit longer. ;-)
09:26.07GeneralAntillesGive it time, you'll be just as cynical and jaded as me soon enough. ;)
09:26.35lcukdont be cynical, you can change the world one wiki page at a time
09:26.41andre___yeah, probably :)
09:27.26lcuk_afkbbl, im unpluggin vnc for the day
09:27.49aquatixlcuk_afk: cya
09:30.13GeneralAntillesWell, andre___, worse comes to worst we can just drop-in replace the strings for each version pretty easily, no?
09:30.25andre___yupp
09:31.47GeneralAntillesIt's gonna be more fun if MicroB, Modest and such end up separated from the OS proper.
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09:34.17andre___garr. i'm going to bring this up to the mailing list before changing it again and again. want more opinions.
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09:39.33GeneralAntilles4.1-2 (4.2008.30-2) sounds workable to me.
09:40.06GeneralAntillesUpd2 or SSU2 or whatever are mostly just awkward.
09:40.19GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I think FBReader's repo is closed.
09:40.53X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I don't know, I can still fetch the packages.gz file.
09:40.58GeneralAntillesOh?
09:41.10GeneralAntillesNevermind then.
09:41.30X-FadeGeneralAntilles: http://www.fbreader.org/maemo/dists/chinook/user/binary-armel/Packages.gz
09:41.54GeneralAntilles403 for directory listings
09:41.55X-FadeGeneralAntilles: But we have someone on the inside there, so don't worry about that one ;)
09:42.17X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Yes, but that is just blocking listings.
09:42.22GeneralAntillesRight
09:42.25GeneralAntillesThrew me off. ;)
09:44.14X-FadeI can still use a lot of help with: https://wiki.maemo.org/Reducing_number_of_external_repositories
09:44.17X-Fade;)
09:44.46GeneralAntilles"a lot"
09:44.46andre___GeneralAntilles, "4.1-2 (4.2008.30-2)"? but that one was SSU1! ;-)
09:44.47GeneralAntillesHehe
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09:45.05GeneralAntillesbrain splodes.
09:45.09GeneralAntillesandre___, I'll leave it up to you.
09:45.14X-FadeGeneralAntilles: We have a script for that, but didn't want to run it ;)
09:45.27GeneralAntillesI'd cross off rtcomm
09:45.35GeneralAntillesit's not going anywhere.
09:46.25X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Last update, 11 days ago.
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09:46.42X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Beta-7 was released then.
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09:47.28GeneralAntillesYou can also put jott's new rotation support repo on that list if you want.
09:47.33GeneralAntillesThat's not going anywhere, either, though. :P
09:47.48macouteyou guys really need a new server to maemo.org
09:47.53macouteinterested in buying one? :P
09:48.00macouterenting, that is.
09:48.02GeneralAntillesmacoute, the new servers are there.
09:48.08GeneralAntillesWaiting on DNS changeover.
09:48.09X-Fademacoute: Do you have some 770 to spare ?
09:48.31macouteX-Fade: why is that? :) no.
09:48.45X-Fademacoute: We only use 770s of course ;)
09:49.04macouteas your servers? nice, i guess :S
09:49.05qwerty12AHA! It's been confirmed by an official.
09:49.10macoute;)
09:49.21GeneralAntillesqwerty12, old news. :P
09:49.31X-Fadeqwerty12: There was even an announcement that showed that. No news there ;)
09:49.42qwerty12OMG
09:49.44qwerty12cries
09:49.51macouteand you are not going to replace them with real hardware?
09:50.04GeneralAntillesX-Fade, are you just fetching the repos off gronmayer?
09:50.04X-Fademacoute: N810s ;)
09:50.18macouteX-Fade: thats propably the dummiest thing ive ever heard
09:50.20X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Check the script in our svn.
09:50.41macouteas a project its kinda nice but as the main servers for the whole maemo its more like a joke
09:50.47X-Fademacoute: Man, you are believing things easily ;)
09:50.51GeneralAntillesmacoute, wooooosh
09:50.55qwerty12LMAO
09:51.08macoutehuh, i actually thought you were serious
09:51.13macoute:)
09:51.19GeneralAntillesI'm not sure why that's sad
09:51.22GeneralAntillesbut I'm sure that it is.
09:51.57macoutebut whats sad is that i believed it as your current servers are slow as a pair of 770's :)
09:53.17macouteis your current apache built by yourselves?
09:53.35macoutesegfaulting apache is not a good thing :)
09:54.08macouteso you should file a bug if you havent somehow screwed it up yourselves
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09:55.24macoutenice
09:55.37GeneralAntillesandre___, FIASCO images are always versioned release.year.buildweek-buildnumber
09:55.51slonopotamusare there any docs on proper modification of upstream deb packages? maintainer info, etc.
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09:56.52slonopotamusand what should be done if no maemo-related modifications are required? is it still needed to specify myself as maintaiener?
09:58.01GeneralAntillesX-Fade, you using a template of some sort to contact repo owners?
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10:02.13X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I do a bit of copy/paste. But I also offer help and add specific things.
10:03.03macoutebtw. www.erepublik.com familiar to anyone? if interested in playing, msg me for an invite. :)
10:03.26GeneralAntillesSounds like a good opportunity for delegation.
10:04.11X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I guess I can add a template to the wiki ;)
10:04.54*** topic/#maemo by GeneralAntilles -> Sprint5 review meeting in #maemo-meeting 9/30 @ 19:00 UTC | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/
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10:24.12_julian_hi
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10:51.56aquatixwonders why his tablet didn't update everything
10:52.08aquatixand why the updates have disappeared from the appmanager since
10:52.19aquatixand apt-get dist-upgrade has been broken for a while
10:52.21aquatixmeh :)
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13:18.37*** topic/#maemo is Sprint5 review meeting in #maemo-meeting 9/30 @ 19:00 UTC | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/
13:21.40CyorxampLo, have had N810Wimax (UK edition) on preorder from expansys for 2 months
13:21.50CyorxampOn phone to expansys now, and they say it'll never arrive :) lol
13:22.00ccookeCyorxamp: oh?
13:22.02CyorxampBUT! That a new Nokia tablet is about to be launched, on hold... getting details now
13:23.01JaffaYeah, right.
13:23.33ccookeJaffa: no, no. I can believe the "it'll never arrive" bit...
13:24.00JaffaWell, yes
13:24.00X-Fadeat expansys, sure.
13:24.13Cyorxampapparently 'wimax isn't popular in the UK' ... just had to educate the guy on that this is about to change
13:24.35CyorxampFreedom4 to be in 15 major cities by end of year, roaming turned on february, BT likely to use it for rural areas to complete 21CN
13:24.41CyorxampHe's like... 'oh'
13:24.43lcuk2god i hate warcraft
13:25.53ccookelcuk2: don't play it, then?
13:26.31ccookeHas the n810WE shipped anywhere?
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13:27.52lcuk2ccooke i dont, but i hear about it all day every day \@/
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13:28.33ccookelcuk2: well, look on the bright side. You're not paying for it...
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13:29.33lcuk2in a way i am :)
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13:29.55ccookein the time you listen to the poor addicts?
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13:32.24CyorxampApparently the new Nokia tablet will have Wimax
13:32.41Cyorxampfinished for 6 months from now, on shelves in a year
13:32.45Stskeepsold news though
13:32.46Cyorxampwill target both UK and US markets
13:32.49X-FadeCyorxamp: Obviously the sales person at the other side is clueless.
13:32.52aquatixwonder when we get a tablet with LTE
13:32.55Cyorxampprobably
13:33.06CyorxampApparently 4 (including me) have preordered this UK N810WE :P
13:33.08CyorxampFOUR! :(
13:33.08ccookeaquatix: Less Than or Equal?
13:33.18Cyorxamphe is seeing what he can do to 'aquire' one
13:33.19ccookeCyorxamp: not a surprise, to be honest
13:33.22aquatixI think LTE is going to be more widely spread than wimax
13:33.24lardmanaquatix: I think we'll get 3G before 4G
13:33.27aquatixccooke: long term evolution
13:33.33aquatixlardman: yeah, or that :)
13:33.43CyorxampOh I'm set for 3G with a HSDPA E51 phone, could go for a N810 right now
13:33.44aquatixccooke: 4G technique
13:33.58Cyorxampbut I want to be ready for Wimax, Wimax launches in this city late this year, early next
13:34.00aquatixCyorxamp: N810 is awesome as-is :)
13:34.02Cyorxamppeople need to wake the fuck up!
13:34.05aquatixah
13:34.49ccookeCyorxamp: like it or not... there just isn't enough wimax in the UK to make people interested. So you have an absolutely tiny market for such devices, and the n810we is a tiny fraction of *that*...
13:35.09Cyorxampyes but there will be market, soon - in the works - ;)
13:35.17crashanddieI do believe wimax is going to be a big flop anyhow
13:35.22Cyorxampand I'm impatient :)
13:35.55CyorxampI think WiMax is going to be the final hit, WiMax + VDSL/Cable = Cheapr broadband for everyone/everywhere
13:35.56ccookeI do wonder if nokia will scrap the n810we entirely, though
13:36.01Cyorxampas well as VoIP for all
13:36.35crashanddiethe only way to get wimax widely accepted is by hitting hard on one occasion. It's not enough of a revolution, because at this point, from my contacts at ISPs and stuff, WiMax is not going to bring cheap wireless broadband. Because the infrastructure is going to be sooo expensive, and there are going to be amazing hickups
13:36.36aquatixwonder when they'll have a big wimax network here in the netherlands
13:36.45ccookeCyorxamp: It's not fast enough, it's not ubiquitous enough and (for voip) it can't do emergency calls.
13:36.54aquatixseems a company in belgium is planning to do a belgium-wide one
13:36.56crashanddiein other words, ISPs are going to have you pay premium price, and that's just not good enough
13:37.04X-Fadeaquatix: Well, we have it in Amsterdam. A bit. ;)
13:37.14aquatixX-Fade: yeah, a bit
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13:37.16CyorxampBT are planning a country wide one
13:37.28crashanddieThe only way to get WiMax going is by hitting during one single event, somewhere in the world. And for me, that's the 2012 olympics
13:37.45crashanddieif they miss that, wimax is deadborn
13:37.53aquatixi think they should focus on LTE
13:37.54ccookeCyorxamp: and, six months or so after it's *working*, I'd expect to see dedicated wimax devices. But the first generation of users will mostly be laptops with cards.
13:38.31lardmanWiMAX vs LTS; is this an ISP vs Telco war too?
13:38.33Cyorxampbah! I did say I was impatient
13:38.49CyorxampTelco's are dead
13:38.56CyorxampBT is becoming a networking company, period.
13:38.59lardmannot if they can push LTE though
13:39.11Cyorxampthrough where?
13:39.12lardmanTelco as in mobile phones I was thinking
13:39.15aquatixlardman: hm, good point
13:39.48crashanddieThe average price we're going to pay for wimax is what... 50quid something for starters? Might go down to 30quid, but that's where it's going to stay. And telco + ISP have already squeezed a whole lot of budget out of families, budget which wasn't required 15 years ago. I don't know if 30 extra quid is going to cut it for the average family
13:40.15lardmanatm I'd have to pay ~£5/month for data
13:40.31lardmanso wimax would beat that, assuming it has coverage
13:40.39Cyorxampcrashanddie, in Milton Keynes its £13 ($25) a month for a 2mbps connection
13:40.42Cyorxampas cheap as ADSL
13:40.50X-Fadecrashanddie: Most people have one internet plan and a laptop. The internet plan can be replaced by WiMax and run on the laptop.
13:41.05AStormCyorxamp: w/o download limits? :P
13:41.06crashanddie15 years ago, you had one phone line. 30 quid a month. These days, the average family has 4 or 5 cell phones, + internet. That's an amazing budget to get people invest yet some more
13:41.07lardmanpays ~£20/month for broadband + phone line iirc
13:41.11CyorxampAStorm, exactly
13:41.14AStormwhat upload?
13:41.17CyorxampWimax is suffering from ANTI-HYPE
13:41.20CyorxampNothing more
13:41.21ccookeCyorxamp: ... wait, you didn't think BT were a network company? wow.
13:41.31lardmanCyorxamp: lots of hype but no delivery
13:41.33AStormwell, HSPA is better
13:41.46Cyorxampccooke, No I already know they are, My job is entirely dependant on 21CN
13:41.48AStormbetter range, better access
13:41.49lardmanI'm looking forward to HSPA
13:42.13AStormbut currently expensive (e.g. 25$ for 1GB data = outrage)
13:42.16Cyorxampwe already have HSPA here
13:42.37Cyorxampbut HSPA still needs a stupid sim card, wimax is just get the gear, get your username
13:42.42lardmanAStorm: hspa can also be done for ~£5/month
13:42.54aquatixCyorxamp: HSDPA?
13:42.59AStormlardman: not in this country (it's 60 PLN ;P)
13:43.06Cyorxampaquarius-, exactly
13:43.17lardmanAStorm: fair enough
13:43.18aquatixLTE basically is the successor to HSDPA
13:43.28Cyorxampso is Wimax :P
13:43.31AStormaquarius-: HSDPA is the download
13:43.37AStormHSUPA is the fast upload
13:43.38aquatixCyorxamp: technically ;)
13:43.39crashanddieCyorxamp, 2Mbit is BULLSHIT. Horsecrap. I used to pay 30euros (25quid) for 100Mbit download and 50Mbit upload. Plus I had amazing services. I don't care so much about the amount I can download, I just care for the service that comes with it. And when I say "I", I'm talking on behalf of general consumer joe
13:43.42AStormcombined, you get HSPA ;P
13:43.45aquatixAStorm: ah yeah :)
13:44.20Cyorxampcrashanddie, all I'm saying is there no silly £50 minimum attached to wimax - today
13:44.35CyorxampMy money is on a GSM and SIM free future
13:44.38crashanddieYeah, we'll see about that ;)
13:44.45CyorxampJust pluck broadband out of the air
13:44.48AStormwhat do you have against SIM?
13:44.49aquatixAStorm: i saw them both and as i see `HSDPA' advertised as UMTS upgrade, i thought it was plain HSDPA they are providing, but of course it's just two protocols
13:44.54ccookeCyorxamp: who pays and how?
13:44.55lardmanCyorxamp: you'd still need to pay an ISP though
13:45.07CyorxampAStorm, you have to take it with you, so you can only have 1 device using it
13:45.10AStormaquatix: because HSUPA is more expensive
13:45.21AStormCyorxamp: ah that, indeed
13:45.29AStormbut then, you want a cellphone on you all the time anyway
13:45.35aquarius-Cyorxamp, AStorm: please be careful when using <Tab> completion
13:45.38ccookeCyorxamp: you get multiple sims on the same account.
13:45.39Cyorxampccooke, Freedom4 run the current wimax system in the UK, BT have their own plans for later, I think the Isle of Man run a system too
13:45.56AStormaquatix: heh, sorry
13:45.59AStormargh
13:46.03aquarius-LOL, again :)
13:46.04AStormaquarius-: ^
13:46.09aquarius-i see :)
13:46.10*** join/#maemo dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net)
13:46.16crashanddieActually, anyone like betting?
13:46.16aquatixAStorm: :P
13:46.16Cyorxampccooke, still need multiple stupid numbers tho - telephone numbers are OLD
13:46.18AStormit's XChat's fault for not having MRU tabcomplete
13:46.21ccookeyes, but how do you *pay*. What is the mechanism of tying a user to an ISP?
13:46.27*** join/#maemo hfwilke (n=hwilke_@gateway.grayinsco.com)
13:46.42AStormccooke: login and pass
13:46.44ccookeCyorxamp: they're equivalent to MAC addresses, though ;-)
13:46.54Cyorxamppluck broadband out of the air with a username/password (like a wifi hotspot) and then get called using your SIP URI
13:46.56ccookeAStorm: Okay, then. Who owns the common infrastructure?
13:47.06AStormyour ISPs
13:47.14X-FadeENUM anyone? :)
13:47.20aquatixENUM++
13:47.21CyorxampYou have to bear in mind ENUM launches this week in the UK, and by 2011 there will no analogue phone lines
13:47.34aquatixfeh, analogue phone lines...
13:47.40aquatixhas voip at home
13:47.45aquatixover adsl
13:47.47AStormoh, it'll take some 10 more years for that to get into this country
13:47.52crashanddieuses exclusively SIP here
13:47.53ccookeAStorm: Collectively? As in: I want to connect to ISP foo, you want to connect to ISP bar. Who arbitrates where my connection/login details go to?
13:47.55CyorxampWiMax + VoIP = Death to normal GSM phones
13:48.04CyorxampAll hail the Nokia tablet with wimazx
13:48.11ccookeCyorxamp: you need to add location support there.
13:48.12johnx_heh...they'll still emulate analog phone lines for years at various points
13:48.15aquatixCyorxamp: and interoperability?
13:48.23ccookeotherwise there is *no* hope of you ever replacing a normal phone.
13:48.26aquatixi'd like to call my grandma now and then ;)
13:48.32Cyorxampaquarius-, wimax is a standard - revised many times, but finally finalised
13:48.35AStormCyorxamp: WiMax is local
13:48.40CyorxampWimax can roam
13:48.42Cyorxamplike GSM
13:48.44AStormto have global wimax, you need huge infrastructure
13:48.50AStormGSM has that already
13:48.50CyorxampIndeedy, just like GSM
13:48.54Cyorxampbollox to GSM
13:48.58Cyorxamp:D
13:49.05johnx_the future is devices with multiple radios...
13:49.12crashanddiePeople who believe wimax is going to replace GSM in the near future are idiots
13:49.13AStormno, because that eats power
13:49.22johnx_AStorm, not when the radio is off...
13:49.22Cyorxampwell I'm ready for that too... my nokia can be HSDPA and Wimax ready :P
13:49.27RST38hafaik, what you are really interested in is the cell size
13:49.29AStormjohnx_: hmm, well ;P
13:49.35crashanddieAnd people who believe we're going to get decent coverage from WiMax in the near future are double that idiots
13:49.38RST38hand cell size is different for different GSM frequencies
13:49.40Cyorxampcrashanddie, not _near_ future, but eventually
13:49.47RST38hwimax cells are pretty small though, right?
13:49.48aquatixcrashanddie: indeed
13:49.54AStormRST38h: no, like, city-sized
13:49.58aquatixRST38h: no
13:50.04aquatixquite large even
13:50.04AStormthey're large if speed is low
13:50.08aquatixcompared to gsm
13:50.09AStormsmall if speed is high
13:50.12crashanddieCyorxamp, yeah, and eventually, we'll have a cancer-free world, and peace everywhere on earth
13:50.23RST38hah
13:50.24aquatixcrashanddie: if humankind has died out ;)
13:50.27Cyorxampwell I have to go eat now
13:50.31aquatixCyorxamp: enjoy
13:50.33Cyorxampwe'll wait and see :)
13:50.39RST38hanimals and plants also have cancers
13:50.40AStormcancer-free? you can't have that due to biology
13:50.43aquatixwimax eats a lot more battery than gsm
13:51.01*** join/#maemo Ryback_ (n=ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback)
13:51.07RST38hAStorm: I think they call humanity a cancer
13:51.15johnx_aquatix, gsm base with on-demand wimax?
13:51.17ccookeAStorm: you can to within experimental error. You just kill everyone before they reach about 25...
13:51.18RST38hSomething I can't really argue against...
13:51.18AStormaquatix: due to low frequency used, more power is needed
13:51.34AStormccooke: wrong! :>
13:51.39aquatixccooke: ooh, children of the corn :)
13:51.55ccookeAStorm: well, go on and tell me why :-)
13:52.05johnx_AStorm, wimax is higher frequency than most gsm bands...
13:52.08AStormccooke: because you still have inherited ones
13:52.16AStormjohnx_: wasn't it 700 MHz?
13:52.17aquatixccooke: however, even kids get cancer, leukemia and such :(
13:52.28AStormwhere GSM is 900 lowest?
13:52.30ccookeaquatix: "within experimental error", you may note ;-)
13:52.37johnx_AStorm, 2.4GHz, 2.5Ghz and 3.5GHz, IIRC
13:52.38*** join/#maemo danilocesar (n=danilo@200.184.118.132)
13:52.43AStormjohnx_: hmm
13:52.44johnx_the 700MHz band is something else...
13:52.48RST38hGSM starts at 450MHz
13:52.56AStormah, so it's microwave
13:52.59aquatixThere is no uniform global licensed spectrum for WiMAX, although the WiMAX Forum has published three licensed spectrum profiles: 2.3 GHz, 2.5 GHz and 3.5 GHz
13:53.02johnx_RST38h, who uses 450MHz?
13:53.02AStormthus the high energy needed ;P
13:53.03aquatix^ wikipedia
13:53.13RST38hjohnx: Siberia
13:53.20AStormit's absorbed by water
13:53.21RST38hjohnx: Not a lot of operators but some
13:53.24ccookeAStorm: What do you mean by "inheritable cancer"?
13:53.31AStormccooke: there are many, heh
13:53.33johnx_RST38h, I'm just thinking of the "big 4" in "quadband gsm"
13:53.50ccookeI've heard of *infectious* cancer, which is a nasty little thought, but not ineritable
13:53.50AStormI mean, genetic diseases predisposing to juvenile cancers, use the damn google ;P
13:53.59crashanddiegod damn it, I've been trying to find a word for nearly 3 minutes
13:54.06aquatixcrashanddie: which?
13:54.06Stskeepsjohnx_: you found some glorious solution to gksu/gksudo and on screen keyboards yet?
13:54.09ccookeAStorm: ahhh! Now that I know about.
13:54.11crashanddieaquatix, heh...
13:54.11RST38hjohnx: Those are 850, 900, 1800, 1900
13:54.23crashanddieaquatix, a world that can never exist
13:54.27AStormand in EU, 900 is used
13:54.29RST38hjohnx: But when you need REALLY big cells, you have to go with 450
13:54.29aquatixutopia?
13:54.34crashanddieaquatix, cheers xD
13:54.38aquatix\o/
13:54.46aquatixutopia is an ideal world
13:54.49AStormRST38h: but no phones support it, so no one does that
13:55.05RST38hAStorm: There are phones that support it
13:55.08johnx_Stskeeps, no such luck
13:55.10AStormminority
13:55.11crashanddiewell, it's not relevant anymore, now
13:55.13Stskeepsjohnx_: alright
13:55.25RST38hAStorm: You probably won't like using one, but they exist
13:55.35AStormuberold?
13:55.42RST38hno, just dumb
13:55.52AStormexample
13:56.12RST38ha moment
13:56.20AStorm(anyway, cells here don't support 450 MHz)
13:56.32Stskeepsjohnx_: i'm thinking to try deblet on myself as i'm not satisfied with diablo :P
13:56.45Stskeepsand see what problems arise
13:57.08AStormpity you can't have 3G+ over bluetooth really
13:57.11AStormBT is slow ;P
13:57.30RST38hAStorm: As I said, they are deployed where you can't place too many transceivers
13:57.44AStorm== nowhere
13:57.46johnx_AStorm, isn't BT2+EDR fast enough to not be a bottleneck?
13:57.59*** join/#maemo lopz (i=gentoo-d@unaffiliated/lopz)
13:58.03AStormhmm, well, does it do 15 Mbit?
13:58.08RST38hAStorm: http://www.macom.com/Markets/Cellular/pdf/Cellular_GSM_Handset.pdf
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14:00.25AStormRST38h: these are for special applications
14:00.35AStormI've yet to see a 450 MHz cell in Europe
14:00.46RST38hAStorm: But long distance cell service in the tundra IS a special application don't you think?
14:01.12AStormyes :>
14:01.15*** join/#maemo borism_ (n=boris@195-50-207-145-dsl.krw.estpak.ee)
14:02.03ShadowJKIt's a long time since I saw a 450MHz cellphone :)
14:02.37*** join/#maemo booiiing (n=[booiiin@e180045250.adsl.alicedsl.de)
14:05.14AStormhmmh, my ISPs DNS server just died
14:05.36X-FadeAStorm: Opendns?
14:06.46*** join/#maemo krutt (n=mk@p5B047AA0.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:08.28AStormnah, DNS is alive ;P
14:09.12*** join/#maemo [1]baaba (i=baaba@cs139158.pp.htv.fi)
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14:11.44aquatixRST38h: better get iridium for that ;)
14:13.20*** join/#maemo zap (n=zap@mail.cobra.ru)
14:15.03AStormopera dns caching... :/
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14:20.36RST38hHe said that so far, in the eyes of the world, the pirates had been misunderstood. We dont consider ourselves sea bandits, he said. We consider sea bandits those who illegally fish in our seas and dump waste in our seas and carry weapons in our seas. We are simply patrolling our seas. Think of us like a coast guard.
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14:24.33str8edgewhat's the best way to gain root access on an 810 w/diablo
14:25.08StsN800install rootsh from extras
14:25.15str8edgethanks!
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14:33.56Woolly-Workhey folks
14:35.44aquatixhi Woolly-Work
14:35.57*** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@200.184.118.132)
14:36.02Woolly-Workhow's everyone today?
14:37.40Jaffaandre___: got your #2677 updates, want to share what NB#83819 says? ;-)
14:38.40andre___Jaffa, it says "exactly the other way round is a bug" :-)
14:38.56*** join/#maemo aloisiojr1 (n=aloisio@200.184.118.132)
14:39.02andre___pressing esc should bring back from fullscreen to normal view, and not close the window
14:39.12JaffaWell, that's just bollocks :)
14:39.17andre___sure :-)
14:39.21JaffaOr, is the "UI Specification" on the side of insanity? ;-)
14:41.00andre___Jaffa, I often have the feeling that it is. :-P
14:41.12*** join/#maemo emma (n=emma@unaffiliated/emma)
14:41.43Woolly-Workanyone using X forwarding with scratchbox?
14:41.48*** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com)
14:42.23andre___Jaffa, sorry for behaving supersecret - I've posted the content now in 2677
14:42.58JaffaThanks
14:43.04Jaffaprepares a rant :)
14:49.08*** join/#maemo qnr-lt (n=terry@sourcemage/guru/pdpc.sustaining.qnr)
14:54.13RST38handre: The pressing esc thing is kind of senseless
14:54.17*** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
14:54.25RST38hAfter all there is a separate button to switch between window and full screen
14:55.08andre___RST38h, i know that button exists. but if you press Esc you'd expect the window to close. At least I do :)
14:55.12aquatixwould expect the window to close
14:55.40aquatixand the main window to remain as-is, like in the bug comment
14:56.14RST38handre: Actually I do close the window on ESC =)
14:56.39RST38hBut I do not think the main window should remain as is
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14:58.20JaffaRST38h: yes, agreed - we've got a fullscreen toggle button, there's no need to dual-purpose escape.
14:58.26RST38handre: I think the problem here is that windows inside an app are allowed to have different window/fullscreen status
14:58.47RST38handre: In fact, when you press FullScreen button, all the app windows should switch to full screen, retaining relative order
14:59.10RST38hThen, closing the topmost window with ESC will reveal the one below it, without changing fullscreen to window
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15:05.02X-FadeGeneralAntilles: ping
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16:23.48Stskeepsqwerty12: you know much about wlan-cal?
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16:24.01qwerty12Stskeeps, not much
16:24.45Stskeepsi'm just wondering why my in-deblet wlan-call fails.. it does have all the stuff needed
16:25.16qwerty12Are you running it from initfs chroot?
16:27.08yacoobmmmm
16:27.23yacoobupdated microb displays tiddlywiki properly
16:27.28yacoobthat's a great thing.
16:31.25Stskeepsqwerty12: yeah
16:39.41*** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
16:45.49moontigerwhats tiddlywiki?
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16:46.46qwerty12Stskeeps, does debian play with /dev/mtd1 in any way?
16:46.55Stskeepsqwerty12: not in any way at all
16:47.31qwerty12hmm
16:47.40Stskeepsthere's ofcourse the obscure fsck bug i had with udev and rootfs..
16:47.46Stskeepswhich may apply to mtd1 too
16:47.56Stskeepsstraces dsme
16:47.59qwerty12how come you are trying to run wlan-cal now?
16:48.37Stskeepsa hunch regarding the fact that the signal strengths and so on are low
16:48.42Stskeepsit's because gain and shit isn't set
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16:48.49qwerty12Ah
16:49.15qwerty12Is cx3110x in memory?
16:49.26Stskeepsinsmod'ed yeah
16:49.31Stskeepscal-tool gives errors too
16:49.34yacoobmoontiger, http://www.tiddlywiki.com - self-contained, js-based wiki
16:50.12qwerty12Stskeeps, sounds like generic cal error then. Do you have libcal in /usr/lib/dsme (something like that)
16:50.16Stskeepsyeah
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16:50.51yacoobwants gears for new microb
16:52.34Stskeepsah.
16:52.36Stskeepsfound problem
16:52.50Stskeepscal.mtd1.lock
16:53.30moontigerinteresting thnx :)
16:53.49qwerty12yacoob, scratchbox :P
16:56.04yacoobqwerty12, yeah, I just can't bring myself to do it, I find whining much much easier 8)
16:56.35*** join/#maemo Mousey (n=welcomem@dsl231-036-060.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
16:56.45qwerty12hehe, I'd offer but ndiswrapper is pissing me off the point that I'm actually, honestly enjoying using vista
16:57.21Mouseythat's it. i'm convinced.
16:57.27Mouseyswitches to windows
16:57.33qwerty12lol
16:58.10aquatixqwerty12: get decent hardware? ;)
16:58.23johnx_qwerty12, aaah memories of the time when I bought cheap hardware and then tried to make it work with linux
16:58.34johnx_s/time/years/g
16:58.51*** part/#maemo john_1 (n=john@host86-154-12-68.range86-154.btcentralplus.com)
16:59.25qwerty12aquatix, can't be bothered in all honesty. I actually like this wireless stick. I'm more annoyed that the ti wlan oss driver doesn't support my stick despite having same chipset
16:59.30qwerty12johnx_, :)
16:59.41qwerty12is a cheap shit. I admit.
17:00.06johnx_qwerty12, I used to be, until finally my time > my money
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17:00.32johnx_give it a couple years, it'll happen to you, too :)
17:00.44aquatixruns to the store for some additional rice
17:00.54qwerty12Hehe, tonight, I'm worrying about whether to get chicken wings or a burger :P
17:01.00aquatixdamn stuff is all gone and i'm hungry
17:01.27johnx_aquatix, you need to buy bigger bags :)
17:02.06qwerty12Lol, come East London and ask any of us Asians here :P
17:02.47qwerty12parents keep a large tub of rice under the stairs :P
17:02.56qwerty12Shame I don't like rice >.<
17:02.57johnx_I've got 10kg next to me right now :)
17:03.12johnx_damn good thing I don't mind rice :)
17:03.19Stskeepsjohnx_: think i've solved the wlan MAC problem + the signal strength stuff now :)
17:03.31johnx_Stskeeps, woo!
17:03.48macoutejohnx_: ill back up your formula, when my time > my money, price of my hw > price of the cheapest hw :)
17:04.27*** join/#maemo croppa (n=stuart@135.27.233.220.exetel.com.au)
17:04.34johnx_Stskeeps, ah, I'll poke at hildon-input-method in sawfish. I have some time right now :)
17:04.38*** join/#maemo Pebby (n=PebbyWeb@c-24-5-47-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
17:05.55johnx_macoute, actually it's often not much more expensive. Sometimes a $12 bt dongle instead of an $8 bt dongle. It just means research before buying :)
17:09.57macoutethats true
17:10.47macouteand its kinda sad too :) it was and is fun to make a useless piece of shit turn out almost as good as 2 times more expensive dongle :)
17:11.25johnx_right, but now when I do that I make sure it's on purpose :)
17:11.56johnx_"this might not work but it will be fun to mess with" vs "I need this to work NOW!"
17:12.06macoute:
17:12.16johnx_my n800 is the latter and my old zaurus is the former :)
17:17.23aquatixjohnx_: they run out eventually anyway
17:17.52johnx_aquatix, I guess I don't eat enough :)
17:17.59Stskeepsjohnx_: btw, wget http://packages.tspre.org/repo.key, apt-key add repo.key, and change repo in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/deblet.list (i think) to packages.tspre.org instead
17:18.02aquatixjohnx_: :)
17:18.18johnx_Stskeeps, will do
17:18.25melmothanybody knows how to make the virtual keyboard (if its a n800, or if the real keyboard is not out) appear in gtk ?
17:18.47*** join/#maemo mgedmin (n=mg@adsl-99-136-97-121.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
17:21.30Luriammmm zaurus
17:21.50Luriamaybe after the sunray and qube, ill find something to do with that
17:21.52johnx_Luria, nice formfactor...but not quite fast enough :/
17:22.09Luriai know, my 5600 is over there
17:22.14johnx_actually, I want to put my 5500 somewhere as a light webserver or something
17:22.23Luriasomething wrong with the charging circuit
17:22.32johnx_sad :(
17:22.45Luriahow many light LAMPs do geeks need
17:23.08johnx_my 5500's battery is shot. it can't be much else
17:24.04aquatixLuria: the more the merrier
17:24.43Stskeepsjohnx_: package updates in repo now, so just update and apt-get dist-upgrade to get it .. if it complains about update-rc.d, rm /etc/init.d/tablet-wireless
17:24.47LuriaProducts evolve until they can play mp3s, send email, and  run linux. then they die and become light web servers.
17:25.21LuriaThen the page gets /.'ed.
17:27.48johnx_Luria, it's the main sequence of gadgets :)
17:28.05Luriayeah
17:29.10Luriathere's no nx client for maemo, right?
17:30.04johnx_I thought there was at some point
17:30.15johnx_I've seen it for years and never once actually got it working on anything :/
17:30.38Luriai wish nx were a bit more oss friendly for porting sake
17:31.14Luriasad that my favorite remote protocols are rdp and nx
17:31.49yacoobnx is open, isn't it?
17:31.55yacoobbesides, it's just compressed X...?
17:31.57Luriasorta
17:32.04Luriacompressed x over ssh
17:32.22Luriathere arent any good free clients
17:32.36Luriafreenx is a fine server tho
17:33.06Stskeepsokay, network-manager is a bit disturbd
17:33.11rm_youjohnx_: ping :)
17:33.18rm_youX-Fade: ping
17:33.23Stskeepsit's showing me (after a reboot), combined local APs and uni ones (i'm not at uni..)
17:33.27LuriaPONG
17:33.33johnx_rm_you, poke!
17:33.40rm_youjohnx_: ^_^
17:33.54johnx_rm_you, just preordered a pandora :)
17:33.58rm_you:)
17:34.13rm_youI haven't been working much so I can't afford gadgets >_>
17:34.36lcukdrools in the wrong chan
17:34.50johnx_rm_you, It's technically a combined early/late birthday present from a lot of people :)
17:35.03rm_you:)
17:35.20rm_youyou're going to be back for XMas, yes?
17:35.38johnx_rm_you, yup. I'll let you see it. :)
17:35.42rm_you^_^
17:35.57rm_youmore interested in hanging out in general, it's been too long
17:36.10johnx_definitely
17:36.23johnx_it'll be nice to be back *sighs*
17:47.06*** join/#maemo ion_cu_vaca (i=man@74.93.190.107)
17:47.12ion_cu_vacahi
17:48.01ion_cu_vacaanyone using soft pover off with the new os update?
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17:55.29*** join/#maemo konttori__ (n=konttori@a88-113-140-60.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
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18:03.30GeneralAntillesX-Fade, pong.
18:03.33GeneralAntillesion_cu_vaca, still broken.
18:06.55*** join/#maemo Macer (i=macer@lasziv.reprehensible.net)
18:06.58Macerwell
18:07.20Maceritdebian ..er..deblet.. or whatever they call it is a little better now
18:07.25Macerstill wish it had bt support
18:07.32Macerwell.. bt phone support
18:07.39Stskeepsit does, if you hack it a bit :P
18:07.43Stskeepslook in deblet hack challenges
18:08.13Stskeepswvdial is broken so it complicates stuff on armel
18:08.45johnx_do we really need wvdial?
18:09.13crashanddieX-Fade, still around mate?
18:10.25*** join/#maemo fnordianslip (n=fnoridan@78.33.82.89)
18:10.32Stskeepsjohnx_: most GUIs use it
18:11.02johnx_Stskeeps, ah, I thought it was a real blocker, not just an ease of use thing
18:11.41Macerheh
18:11.59Stskeepsit is a wrapper really
18:12.00Macerhow do i get rid of that dock on the left?
18:12.07Macerthat thing seems rather pointless and takes up too much space
18:12.13Stskeepswhich env are you on?
18:12.17Macerbeta3
18:12.25johnx_tap+hold to move it
18:12.29Stskeepsokay, that's the old version :P
18:12.34johnx_should pop up a menu with options
18:12.35Maceroh man
18:12.38Maceryou kidding me? :)
18:12.45Stskeepswas it a tar.gz? :P
18:12.47Maceri just finished installing it heh
18:12.51johnx_oh noes!
18:12.51Macertar.bz2
18:12.56Stskeepsyup, old version
18:13.00johnx_yeah, I did that a long time ago
18:13.00Macerwell.. i didn't see the new version on the site
18:13.02Stskeepspre-deblet
18:13.12Macerdamn
18:13.12StskeepsMacer: i'd wait some days, the new installer is a lot better :P
18:13.24johnx_Macer, play for now but don't get attached :)
18:13.38Macerheh
18:13.45Maceri installed it on a 4G sd i had lying around
18:13.47*** join/#maemo AStorm (n=astralst@unaffiliated/astralstorm)
18:14.10ion_cu_vacaGeneralAntilles, when in soft poweroff, my led blinks, any idea why?
18:14.28GeneralAntillesion_cu_vaca, check the Display settings in control panel.
18:14.36Macerhm
18:14.42Macerwhere are you guys keeping the newer stuff?
18:14.50ion_cu_vacaall the checkboxes are unchecked
18:14.55Macerinternet tablet kind of sends  you to your old site
18:14.56ion_cu_vacaand still blinks
18:15.15GeneralAntillesion_cu_vaca, I don't know.
18:15.17GeneralAntillesSoft poweroff is broken.
18:15.18StskeepsMacer: trac.tspre.org
18:15.23StskeepsMacer: trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet
18:15.36Maceronce the bt phone stuff works then this will be perfect
18:15.39Macer:)
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18:15.56Macerdid you guys ever figure out how to get that address bar stuff in epiphany turned off?
18:16.27johnx_Macer, yeah, switched to midori :)
18:16.34Macerdamn
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18:16.43Maceri must be on last year's stuff huh? :)
18:16.56Macerwhat engine does midori use?
18:17.01johnx_webkit
18:17.06Macerepiphany worked well with my zimbra server
18:17.08johnx_nah, just a couple months ago. but Stskeeps has been doing insane amounts of work on this
18:17.17johnx_well, there's ff3 as well aka iceweasel
18:17.23Macercould do anything on it... the browser osso has doesn't work well
18:17.36Macerit is awesome
18:17.37Macer:)
18:17.54Maceri wish i had an n800 for the qwerty
18:18.02Macern810 i mean
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18:18.26*** part/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host86-153-227-218.range86-153.btcentralplus.com)
18:18.37Maceri was going to buy one but flinched because there wasn't anything that worked with my zimbra server.. it would always render wrong
18:18.55johnx_in microb?
18:19.09johnx_you should try it after the latest update. people have reported improvements
18:19.20GeneralAntillesMicroB is always improving.
18:19.31GeneralAntillesSo talking about it from 8 months ago is about as un-useful as it gets.
18:19.59Luriais looking forward to ff3 on pandora
18:20.02Stskeepsjust managed to kill his buildbox, lovely
18:20.13GeneralAntillesLuria, so it can run like shit?
18:20.14*** join/#maemo dforsyth (n=dforsyth@pool-71-163-125-154.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
18:20.19GeneralAntillesFF3 is already on the Beagle.
18:20.22GeneralAntillesGuess what?
18:20.23GeneralAntillesIt runs like shit.
18:20.35Macerwasn't the whole point of the last firmware update that you don't have to update the firmware anymore?
18:20.46Macerall updates were supposed to be on the fly
18:20.54GeneralAntillesMacer, uh, they are. . . .
18:21.01Luriamicrob is no wonder of the world
18:21.12Luriareally, i checked civ4.
18:21.16Macerthen i am running the latest microb and it does not render zimbra correctly
18:21.17GeneralAntillesLuria, it's a helluva lot faster than FF3 on the same hardware.
18:21.30GeneralAntillesMacer, 4.2008.36-5?
18:21.34GeneralAntillesand have you bothered filing a bug?
18:22.00Luriaright, but microb on omap 2 vs. ff3 on omap 3?
18:22.02Macernot really.. i'd rather use debian ... sts and johnx have done great work
18:22.15johnx_GeneralAntilles, are you running angstrom on that? want to try midori 0.21 for me?
18:22.16Stskeepsstill a lot to go:P
18:22.20GeneralAntillesLuria, FF3 is still slow.
18:22.28GeneralAntillesjohnx_, I'm still in trashed-mode at the moment.
18:22.30Maceronce the bt phone dun works it would be perfect
18:22.35johnx_ff3 is too memory hungry
18:22.41Macerff3 is a pig
18:22.55johnx_Macer, it already does if you're willing to meddle with the command line, or so I would assume
18:23.02Luriai find it ok on some crappy systems. better than ff2.
18:23.07Maceri tried that for quite a while but that was with beta3 also
18:23.22Maceri was able to bind them.. but the actual dialing part was a pain
18:23.47GeneralAntillesjott, ping.
18:23.50Macerthere was something missing.. can't remember what it was.. i believe the network interface for the bt dun stuff
18:23.53johnx_Luria, how much memory do those systems have? 256MB and swap makes all the difference from 128MB
18:23.58zapsoo, are there any more PSU martyrs out there?
18:24.06*** join/#maemo hrw|gone (n=hrw@ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl)
18:24.11zapor I'm the only one :)
18:24.16Luria128 with swap
18:24.32Luriabut no crazy 200 tab sessions like my xp box :-)
18:24.33StskeepsMacer: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=221269&postcount=16
18:24.46johnx_Luria, fast swap would be the difference
18:25.05Luria5400rpm ata is fast?
18:25.26inzLuria, depends on what you compare it with
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18:26.07johnx_Luria, yes, compared to SD cards. Also a fast processor makes up a lot of the difference
18:29.26GeneralAntillesandre___, oh hell, Jaffa shot some holes in that plan. . . .
18:30.58*** join/#maemo AStorm (n=astralst@unaffiliated/astralstorm)
18:31.19andre___what plan?
18:31.27andre___is too lazy to read the backlog
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18:35.02GeneralAntillesandre___, the versioning thread on -community
18:35.07MacerStskeeps - how is deblet with bt keyboard support?
18:35.17StskeepsMacer: haven't tried
18:35.19Macerwould be even more awesome if it worked with my su8w :)
18:35.37Macerah. after i install the newest ver then i'll try mine out
18:36.11Stskeepsit's probably possible since su-8w keymaps are in deblet
18:36.16robinkWhen Application Manager complains "Not enough memory in target location", what is it referring to?
18:36.26Macerah.. it would be nice to map the special keys
18:36.26robinkThe root filesystem or /media/mmc2?
18:36.31johnx_Macer, none of the bt stuff will work quite the way it does on os2008. it will be closer to the way it works in debian on the desktop
18:36.33Macerthe ones you would use on an n95
18:36.50Maceri never really used much bt stuff in debian
18:37.19Macernever really had a reason to.. never had a desktop with bt nor needed it
18:37.22robinkOh, the root filesystem
18:37.46Macerbut i'll try it out once i re-install the newer ver
18:38.02StskeepsMacer: you bored and want to try out the upcoming new version? :P
18:38.13andre___GeneralAntilles, 4.1, 4.1+1 (=current 4.1.1), 4.1.1 (=current 4.1.2). but even that wouldn't solve the sorting issue. i love unsolvable problems :-P
18:38.31Macersure if you have a place to download it
18:38.46Macerif you guys don't mind i was going to host your stuff in a little bit
18:38.46Stskeepssure, sec
18:39.10StskeepsMacer: if you want to provide rsync+ssh and a apache virtual host our mirror infrastructure is already up
18:39.46StskeepsMacer: did you install Deblet before? if so, remove the deblet repo from application manager
18:40.02Macerno.. i just used the bz2 from beta 3 on a fresh 4G
18:40.10Stskeepsk
18:40.15Maceri installed it with the installer a while ago when you were working on it
18:40.16StskeepsMacer: http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/deblet-diablo.install if you use diablo
18:40.32Stskeepsyeah, check the deblet repo is gone, we switched
18:40.32Stskeeps:P
18:40.33Macerok.. i'll download it in a minute
18:42.22*** join/#maemo Anunakin (n=fazzi@189.82.128.162)
18:42.42Stskeepsand verify the deblet-installer package is 2.something
18:42.54Stskeepsand install nit-env-lxde is prolly your best shot
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18:49.01Maceri'm wiping the beta3 now
18:49.57Anunakinde
18:51.03X-Fadecrashanddie: yes
18:51.20X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Sorry, was away now ;)
18:52.09*** join/#maemo madha1 (n=Administ@122.167.154.237)
18:52.32Macer2.3-1
18:52.52Stskeepsperfect
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18:53.14JaffaG
18:53.15Macerunable to install deblet-installer application packages missing: zenity roxterm
18:53.24Stskeepsoh, right
18:53.27Stskeepslemme just include those
18:53.41JaffaGeneralAntilles: hopefully we can come up with a version strategy which works - maybe even Nokia telling us what SSU updates they're planning *cough*
18:53.58GeneralAntillesJaffa, I doubt they know themselves.
18:54.38Maceri don't have a rep with zenity or roxterm :)
18:56.27JaffaGeneralAntilles: SSU2 seemed to have been planned with the whole "oh, this was rushed, but the second one'll have sources & stuff; honest!"
18:57.36Maceryou going to add those pkgs to your rep Stskeeps ?
18:57.41StskeepsMacer: yeah, working on it
18:57.59Macerawesome
18:58.55jottGeneralAntilles: pong.
18:59.15GeneralAntillesDamnit, jott, I just closed that tab. :P
18:59.25jott:d
18:59.32GeneralAntilleshttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3602#c9
18:59.46StskeepsMacer: added, use .install file again and make sure it updates deblet repo with components: main user
19:00.15Stskeeps(you'll know if it doesn't :P)
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19:01.05jottGeneralAntilles: oooh! now see nokia legal for slapping the bitch out of flash support etc :)
19:02.15GeneralAntillesLet 'em try.
19:02.28Macerwell.. it installed something in utilities
19:02.38GeneralAntillesHonestly, though, I bet we can fetch the proprietary stuff from tableteer.
19:03.12Maceradded a bootmenu setup huh? :)
19:03.41StskeepsGeneralAntilles: is easy
19:03.41Maceralready have the bootmenu set up so i'll skip that.. although i'm tempted to mess with it
19:03.43GeneralAntillesjott, something that might be interesting to push.
19:03.51StskeepsMacer: yeah, - is it my bootmenu patches?
19:03.57Stskeepsas in, the one you have already
19:04.01*** join/#maemo lardman (n=simon@78.150.132.40)
19:04.15Maceri need a patch for the bootmenu?
19:04.19Macerwhat does it patch?
19:04.35jottGeneralAntilles: yeah main problem is to cherry-pick proprietary stuff. but the idea itself seems good.
19:04.49jottok. brb.
19:05.45StskeepsMacer: basically, install bootmenu from the utilities if you want to use deblet - the reason is because we use some additional features needed to make deblet boot well, and support boot menu items (in /etc/bootmenu.d) that are flashed to the initfs upon refresh_bootmenu.d  , so you don't have to handmake your bootmenu.conf
19:05.46Macerwow... lots of envs to choose from
19:06.07Stskeepsyeah, use -lxde for now
19:06.11Stskeepsthe others i havent tested after the makeover
19:06.11GeneralAntilles-> #maemo-meeting
19:06.19GeneralAntilleslardman
19:06.23Macerwhich bootmenu options did you change for it to boot well?
19:06.25lcukmeeting
19:06.27GeneralAntillesJaffa
19:06.37GeneralAntillesetrunko :P
19:07.21StskeepsMacer: i've added support so OS's can subvert the initfs fuckiness totally (excuse my language), allow for booting OS'es in a file, etc
19:07.33StskeepsGeneralAntilles: is as usual okay to listen in?
19:07.42GeneralAntillesStskeeps, #maemo-meeting is open. ;)
19:07.47X-FadeStskeeps: Sure. It is public ;)
19:07.53Macerah... ok. i'll run the bootmenu first then work on the install... i'll letyou know how it goes
19:08.01X-FadeStskeeps: And a log will be posted.
19:08.09*** join/#maemo timsamoff (i=412993c3@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ddc012ee5230adde)
19:08.17Stskeepscall it morbid curiosity, or something ;)
19:08.42*** join/#maemo dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net)
19:08.45GeneralAntillesHey, timsamoff!
19:08.50GeneralAntilles-> #maemo-meeting
19:10.55Macerhm
19:11.11Maceris the bootmenu supposed to be run after the install?
19:11.17Stskeepsit can be either really
19:11.33Maceri just ran it and it wiped my bootmenu config and i don't have the ability to boot from my internal card anymore
19:11.40JaffaOh, is that tonight? <sigh/>
19:11.42Macerblk0p2 is what i usually use
19:11.47StskeepsMacer: sec
19:12.21StskeepsMacer: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23051
19:12.25Stskeepsread my post about .items
19:12.36Stskeepsand set up one for your internal card
19:12.41Stskeeps(don't use _LINUXRC there)
19:13.02Stskeepsand then run refresh_bootmenu.d
19:13.33StskeepsMacer: and probably needs to be noatime,rw for maemo if it's so
19:14.02StskeepsMacer: when deblet is installed, a Deblet item will be added, for instance
19:14.17Macerah ok
19:17.29robinkhad to uninstall a bunch of stuff to install the OS2008 update.
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19:27.06Macerok.. have the menu now
19:27.21Macergoing to install the actual deblet in a sec
19:31.26Macerit just retrieved packages and is trying to install now... do you keep the term for debugging purposes?
19:32.00Stskeepsyes, and some debconf questions
19:32.13Stskeepscos not all people want to install GTK for the graphical debconf
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19:32.34Macerah.. i see.. i just used the gtk one.. figured using a console for the stuff would be bothersome
19:32.38Stskeepsk
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19:32.43Stskeepsit's not that bad
19:32.44Stskeeps:P
19:32.54Macerncurses?
19:32.58Stskeepsyeah
19:33.02Stskeepsbut uhm, got a n810 or a n800?
19:33.07Macern800
19:33.23Stskeepscos i don't know if it's possible to use the on screen keyboard in the GTK one
19:33.38Stskeepsdon't hang me up on that though
19:33.46Macerheh
19:33.54Stskeepsyou'll find out i guess
19:33.57Maceryeah
19:34.08Stskeepsi use the console one cos its just easier :P
19:34.25lardmanderf: hey, how's the toolchain working?
19:34.35derflardman: Haven't tried it yet. I'm at work.
19:34.52lardmanderf: ah, timezones :)
19:34.53Macerwell... i'll let you know if it works.. if it doesn't then i'll go ahead and try again with the ncurses stuff
19:35.32derflardman: I was at work until almost 2 AM this morning, timezones have little to do with it.
19:35.53Macerroxterm is nice to have in maemo tho
19:36.01lardmanderf: ouch
19:36.20Macerkind of nice the installer installs it
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19:37.50robinkThe system update broke my N810.
19:38.12aquatixrobink: in what way?
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19:40.00robinkaquatix: Network config won't launch, hildon doesn't recognise the keyboard
19:40.03robink...
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19:40.18GeneralAntillesapt-get -f install
19:40.28GeneralAntillesand maybe dpkg --configure -a
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19:41.32robinkGeneralAntilles: apt-get -f install seems to be doing that.
19:43.08johnx_gah, do I have *any* sd cards without bad blocks?!
19:43.32aquatixjohnx_: buy some decent brand? or be a little more kind to the poor things ;)
19:43.49johnx_testing linux distros and being kind are kind of mutually exclusive
19:44.03RST38hmoo all
19:44.03aquatix:)
19:44.07johnx_but yeah, I guess I should figure out a decent brand
19:44.07aquatixmoo robink
19:44.11aquatixgah, tab error
19:44.14johnx_m00f RST38h
19:44.14aquatixmoo RST38h
19:44.30aquatixjohnx_: sandisk serves me fine
19:44.31RST38hhow are things in the maemoland?
19:44.55johnx_aquatix, see, that's the thing. sandisk is the only type of card I've had the completely died on me.
19:45.03aquatixha :)
19:45.15aquatixtranscend maybe?
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19:45.24johnx_and they've (sandisk) historically worked poorly with the zaurus
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19:46.18johnx_puts his 2gb card through a badblocks test
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20:06.36RST38hpoor Sun Microsystems at $7.60/share... and to add insult to the injury, its ticker is JAVA :)
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20:10.05aquatixRST38h: they did that on purpose even
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20:19.48RST38haquatix: poor self mutilating things...
20:20.04RST38hnot as bad as HPaq merge of course but still
20:20.40aquatix:)
20:22.01RST38hsleep time.
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20:46.36StskeepsGeneralAntilles: regarding the whole open source of things discussion - atleast i've used a lot of nokia sources for working out how the device works for deblet and devel purposes
20:47.06Stskeepsit's always nice being able to open the box and see what drives the machinery to develop better for the device
20:47.15GeneralAntillesStskeeps, you want to elaborate a bit on that and toss it on the wiki form Quim?
20:47.23GeneralAntilless/form/for/
20:48.29StskeepsGeneralAntilles: will think about it.. but one of the big research things these days is that users have easier understanding how their systems work and use them if they can open it up and alter to their behaviour
20:48.40Stskeeps+making it easier for users
20:48.57GeneralAntillesStskeeps, having concrete examples is going to be _really_ useful
20:49.07Stskeepsyeah, probably :P
20:49.09GeneralAntillesSo documenting your example isn't just a "feel good" thing.
20:49.34Stskeepsbootmenu is probably the most wide use of the fact the OS is "open source" though
20:49.55Stskeepsrotation support
20:50.12Stskeeps.. advanced backlight
20:50.18GeneralAntillesPfft
20:50.21Stskeeps:P
20:50.26GeneralAntillesAdvanced Backlight isn't an example of that
20:50.36GeneralAntillesit's an example of exactly why the closed components hinder development.
20:50.37Stskeepstrue
20:50.52GeneralAntillesShowing Nokia management the cool things people do with the open source stuff, and exactly how much money those cool things could make them. . . . ;)
20:52.05Stskeepsi guess nokia is a bit in a interesting place - they're both OS and hardware provider
20:52.42johnx_similar situation to apple really
20:52.55Stskeeps.. for my own sake, i think some of the deblet things might be interesting and they're definately based on the OSS things from maemo :P
20:52.56JaffaGeneralAntilles: the trouble is, open sourcing stuff like the App Manager doesn't help when the plans that the corporate sponsor is doing with it are closed.
20:53.07JaffaWho's going to hack on it without knowing the patches will be accepted?
20:53.24GeneralAntillesJaffa, yeah, true enough.
20:53.34X-FadeJaffa: Next time: bring that up during the meeting ;)
20:53.37JaffaSo without open development, open code's almost useless
20:53.43JaffaX-Fade: family got the better of me ;-)
20:53.44X-FadeJaffa: That is a task, you know.
20:54.02Jaffa"Open development"?
20:54.31GeneralAntillesThe following error was encountered:
20:54.31GeneralAntillesZero Sized Reply
20:54.33GeneralAntillesThat's new.
20:54.43JaffaX-Fade: I'll have a look at Package_Categories tomorrow, and start contributing to the talk page
20:55.05X-FadeJaffa: Great! I will join you there ;)
20:55.19GeneralAntilleshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Open_Source_Proof_Points
20:55.32GeneralAntillesAfter fighting with categories last night with jott, I'm way ready to help push that one.
20:55.57Stskeepsare there actually people using Mamona, btw?
20:55.59Stskeepslike, actively?
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20:56.07GeneralAntillesStskeeps, not many.
20:56.15GeneralAntillesIt only recently got to the point of usable.
20:56.28johnx_I might look at it...I have an on-again off-again love affair with openembedded
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20:56.35Stskeepsthey've done a shitload of interesting stuff tablet hacking wise, but i'm not sure they at all target the .. user
20:56.58johnx_Stskeeps, looks like they're working on infrastructure first
20:57.14GeneralAntillesWow
20:57.22GeneralAntillesrtcomm beta is moving to Extras-devel?
20:57.48X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Yes, I'm working with those guys to get it in there.
20:57.56X-FadeGeneralAntilles: No convincing needed btw.
20:58.03GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I'd never have seen that one coming.
20:58.44JaffaCool
20:58.48GeneralAntillesslaps dneary for Maemo.org
20:59.01dnearywhu'?
20:59.17GeneralAntilleshttp://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Karma&diff=7523&oldid=7518
20:59.31dnearyAh
20:59.50dnearyThat must have been automatic capitalisation of the first letter in the sentence
21:00.00X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Heh, well more repos tomorrow ;)
21:00.15X-FadeI'm pretty tired, so I'm out of here.
21:00.19GeneralAntillesI'm designating etrunko to help you as punishment
21:00.22X-FadeLater.
21:00.24GeneralAntillesfor missing the review. ;)
21:00.25GeneralAntilles'night
21:00.45Stskeepsthe whole Maemo.org/maemo.org/maemo/Maemo discussion reminds me of a rule at the local uni fraternity for nature sciences.. if you spell the name of the fraternity without it being all uppercase and if the name is seperated in any way, you owe a box of beer to the fraternity
21:00.50Stskeeps:P
21:01.06Stskeepsadmittedly, it works
21:01.10GeneralAntilless/beer/patch/ and we've got a deal.
21:01.49johnx_how many patches in a box?
21:01.57GeneralAntilles300,000
21:02.10GeneralAntillesSo, actually, you're indenturing yourself to Nokia every time you screw up.
21:02.11JaffaGeneralAntilles: I think the council should be willing to accept boxes of beer into "storage"
21:02.27GeneralAntillesJaffa, you know, for "safe keeping"? ;)
21:03.01Jaffazactly
21:03.16GeneralAntillesI want to see where Bundyo goes with Tear.
21:03.21GeneralAntillesLooks quite cool already.
21:03.37JaffaIndeed
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21:11.54JaffaHmm. I'm now arguing with myself on http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Open_Source_Proof_Points ;-)
21:13.00GeneralAntillesHehe
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21:15.28lardmannight chaps
21:15.33Jaffag'night
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21:18.03dnearynight
21:18.49mikkov_is the meeting log going to be in http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/ ?
21:18.59GeneralAntillesmikkov_, yes.
21:19.09GeneralAntillesWe need to give X-Fade 50 lashings first, though.
21:19.47*** part/#maemo henrique (n=henrique@unaffiliated/henrique)
21:19.57mikkov_was there some maemo.org meeting? is there a log somewhere?
21:20.02Luriagah, need more ram
21:20.13GeneralAntillesmikkov_, er?
21:20.19GeneralAntillesYes, it ends just a little while ago
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21:20.27GeneralAntillesYes, the logs will be posted to that URL.
21:20.28Jaffamikkov_: will be same place for the 'maemo.org redesign' meeting on Saturday
21:21.04lbtGeneralAntilles: Re: Open Source Proof Points.... multiboot. I and others can make the tablets boot multiple OSes to allow developers to test apps on one device in clean installs. We can do multiboot 'cos we can hack at the open script.
21:21.23Jaffalbt: what's the advantage of that to Nokia?
21:21.24GeneralAntilleslbt, excellent! Now go write that up for the wiki. ;)
21:21.33JaffaAh, dev testing
21:21.37lbtyes
21:21.37JaffaSorry, not paying attention
21:21.46GeneralAntillesJaffa, or more hardware appeal to consumers.
21:21.56lbtit's not really a consumer benefit though :)
21:22.03mavhcstupid OS update infinitely rebooted my n810, this time I had a backup though
21:22.06JaffaGeneralAntilles: s/consumers/very niche power users & developers/
21:22.12Jaffalbt: indeed
21:22.13GeneralAntilles"consumers" being people with money who have interest in a feature like that who will buy it.
21:22.13mikkov_Jaffa: thanks, I was referring to design meeting
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21:23.17JaffaGeneralAntilles: They've already expressed - quite rightly - they want it to be a mainstream device; if it's a choice between opening X for $Y & receiving Z additional sales; or working on killer feature A for $B and receiving kZ sales, where 'k' is large - it'll be a no-brainer.
21:23.36JaffaAnd companies are *great* at convincing themselves in cost-benefit analyses of the decisions they've already made being the best ones
21:24.04Jaffa(cos cost/benefit is impossible - or at least very very hard - to do [for software/hardware])
21:24.05lbtJaffa:  your open development point is very important. What's the point of even submitting a bug, never mind a patch. It goes into the back room and that's it...
21:24.27Jaffalbt: aye :-(
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21:24.46Jaffahates being right sometimes ;-)
21:25.16lbthave there been community patches to gtk etc that got back in?
21:25.30GeneralAntillesI'm inclined to blame Jaffa for the situation we're in. :P
21:25.53JaffaGeneralAntilles: damnit. I knew I should've never bought a 770 and instead bought a GP2X and now a Pandora ;)
21:26.04lbtOpenMoko....
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21:26.10GeneralAntillesWho are also being pretty tight-lipped about their code. . . .
21:26.32lbtare they?
21:26.38JaffaPandora are
21:26.56GeneralAntillesThey're not all that open software-wise for a supposedly "open" project.
21:27.26JaffaSimilar to the TechCrunch tablet - "we'll be open [...] look, here's a video of some hardware booting [...] what? specs? software? shush now"
21:27.58lbtAndroid... oh, wait, no...
21:29.22lbtanyhow - got to go; life is busy at the moment... 'night all
21:29.28JaffaYou want an open, Linux-running Internet Tablet? Buy a MID running Moblin or Ubuntu MID.
21:29.42JaffaWon't be a great tablet, but it'll be open.
21:30.24Jaffaplayed with one of the Aigo/Gigabyte MIDs on the moblin stall at OSiM. It's still *so* flaky and amateurish. Worse than OS2005 in places (flicking Gtk+ borders, exposing underlying themes and implementations constantly)
21:31.18GeneralAntillesInteresting
21:31.50JaffaUbuntu MID are having to put a lot of polish in now, now that they're not shipping with any devices as standard (at the moment)
21:31.51kpelactually i want a decent product that knows how to use memory cards and doesn't panic when the tiny internal memory doesn't have room for a massive update :P
21:32.10JaffaNow, what the Canonical *couldn't* say about Nokia, Canonical, Ubuntu and Maemo was *very* interesting.
21:32.28Jaffas/Canonical/$& Guy/
21:32.40Jaffainfobot: learn regexps better, you tool
21:33.01GeneralAntillesHa
21:33.10GeneralAntillesIt's IRC regex!
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21:33.55JaffaPfft.
21:40.27Jaffasleeps. G'night.
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21:59.49lcukpeeks in here
22:00.40GeneralAntillesslams the door on lcuk's fingers.
22:00.57lcuki deffo cant do stuff now
22:01.22lcuktheres me buildin a package - workin my fingers to the bone and you scrw it all up :P
22:01.40TrueJournalsSo now we can blame GeneralAntilles for the delay?
22:01.46lcukheh
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22:04.11maddlerhey all!
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22:13.03*** topic/#maemo by GeneralAntilles -> http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/
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22:18.17Andy80maddler: hola :)
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23:02.54lcukbangs head multiple times
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23:13.29gregoroviuspackaging driving you nuts, lcuk? :)
23:13.56lcukyeah gregorovius :) just another set of things to re-learn and do
23:14.25gregoroviusI never managed to learn deb packaging, ended up moving to arch linux
23:14.33lcukwill never understand this side of it
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23:26.54maddlerAndy80: TTL here...
23:27.05maddlersee you all next time, folks
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23:59.26mojomonkeecan i remove/add programs to the sidebar of the OS?
23:59.37mojomonkeei don't ever use the chat program and i want to remove it

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