| 00:00.08 | GeneralAntilles | Bleh, he's back at it again |
| 00:00.08 | GeneralAntilles | https://wiki.maemo.org/Ext2_file_system_on_flash_card_partition |
| 00:00.08 | GeneralAntilles | That article seriously needs to die. |
| 00:00.15 | GeneralAntilles | "How to break your tablet in 10 easy steps" |
| 00:01.32 | *** join/#maemo brontide (n=ew2193@cpe-74-70-154-77.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 00:02.10 | *** join/#maemo b1ackdeath (n=b1ackd3a@c-24-147-210-197.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 00:02.31 | GeneralAntilles | Snarky shit like this doesn't belong in the wiki: https://wiki.maemo.org/Ext2_file_system_on_flash_card_partition#Why_you_should_consider_an_other_method |
| 00:02.36 | GeneralAntilles | It needs to die. . . . |
| 00:03.18 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@a81-84-57-114.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 00:06.45 | *** join/#maemo mdg (n=marsha@ip-67-222-205-156.dsl-dhcp.blr.huntel.net) |
| 00:08.10 | mdg | anyone care to troubleshoot vnc on nokia 770 running os 2006 |
| 00:09.13 | mdg | trying to connect from linux mint PC to nokia 770 via vncserver on mint pc |
| 00:09.50 | mdg | do I need anything other than vnc/vncserver installed on both? |
| 00:10.23 | dystopia | GeneralAntilles: such comments are the reason for Talk: |
| 00:10.58 | dystopia | the page doesn't even have proper capitalisation |
| 00:11.15 | GeneralAntilles | dystopia, yes, which is yet another reason why I want the article dead. ;) |
| 00:11.43 | GeneralAntilles | The primary reason, of course, being that the method described is _extremely_ unstable and unsafe |
| 00:12.13 | GeneralAntilles | and is superseded by a much better method: |
| 00:12.15 | GeneralAntilles | ~boot-sd |
| 00:12.18 | infobot | somebody said boot-sd was https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card |
| 00:13.31 | mdg | what's the command for connecting via VNC to nokia from PC |
| 00:13.32 | dystopia | move it to some obscure wiki :> is there a process to declare a page for deletion? |
| 00:14.01 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I already tried. |
| 00:14.03 | GeneralAntilles | He spazzed out |
| 00:14.20 | GeneralAntilles | and qgil jumped in and defended him for some goddamn reason |
| 00:15.41 | dystopia | well what he stated could be reworded in far less lines... |
| 00:16.11 | *** join/#maemo uncorq (n=MI5@70.195.8.67.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 00:16.16 | GeneralAntilles | I could fix the article up myself |
| 00:16.18 | GeneralAntilles | but why? |
| 00:16.35 | GeneralAntilles | So there can be a good article for a really, really, terrible method of getting more application install space? |
| 00:16.37 | GeneralAntilles | I don't think so. |
| 00:17.22 | mdg | VNC anyone? |
| 00:17.43 | dystopia | less garbage makes it easier to read |
| 00:17.45 | GeneralAntilles | mdg, if you installed x11vnc on the tablet, then there should be a menu entry to start it |
| 00:17.55 | GeneralAntilles | then find yourself a client on the Linux machine and connect to your tablet's IP. |
| 00:18.07 | GeneralAntilles | dystopia, I don't want anything about it to be easy. ;) |
| 00:18.09 | GeneralAntilles | I want it deleted. |
| 00:18.31 | mdg | yes, trying to connect from my PC to the tablet via vnc |
| 00:19.01 | mdg | don't understand the commands: vnc XXXXX (ip address = XXXX) and then what |
| 00:19.55 | crashanddie | ~seen dneary |
| 00:19.58 | infobot | dneary <n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 9h 55m 6s ago, saying: 'Community file storage and content management - there's a problem space that we're not good at yet'. |
| 00:21.32 | mdg | do I need ssh as well in 2006 |
| 00:21.36 | dystopia | why not simplt delete it ;> |
| 00:22.22 | GAN800 | dystopia, because I made the mistake of trying to go about it the nice way the first time aroumd |
| 00:22.23 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, what's the fuss about? |
| 00:22.40 | GAN800 | Now I need some sort of consensus. |
| 00:23.06 | crashanddie | GAN800, ask me, I'm always impartial, fair, just, and agreeing with the one who pays most |
| 00:23.10 | GAN800 | https://wiki.maemo.org/Ext2_file_system_on_flash_card_partition |
| 00:24.04 | crashanddie | Create a template for pages that are outdated and are currently under discussion |
| 00:24.14 | crashanddie | we can actually make it big and ugly so that no one misses it |
| 00:24.28 | GAN800 | Already exists |
| 00:24.37 | crashanddie | then why isn't it on this page? |
| 00:24.47 | GAN800 | It's not really 'out-of-date' though |
| 00:24.48 | crashanddie | sometimes the wiki on maemo is such a mess |
| 00:25.07 | GAN800 | I try. :P |
| 00:25.20 | crashanddie | Tell me where you need a hand |
| 00:25.44 | crashanddie | I'm serious, gimme directives. In a dayjob, I know what I have to do. In a community, I never know, because everything I try will always piss off someone |
| 00:26.07 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 00:26.08 | crashanddie | GAN800, I are your base |
| 00:26.27 | GeneralAntilles | Well, put a comment on the talk page under the deletion thread that you're in favor of deleting. |
| 00:27.01 | GeneralAntilles | Some general stuff is outlined here: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemowiki_Action_Group |
| 00:27.08 | GeneralAntilles | Needs updating, though. |
| 00:27.10 | GeneralAntilles | Slap your name on the bottom of that list. |
| 00:28.13 | *** join/#maemo greentux (n=lemke@BAA24c6.baa.pppool.de) |
| 00:28.43 | GeneralAntilles | These are the old midgard articles: https://wiki.maemo.org/Category:Midgard_wiki |
| 00:28.51 | GeneralAntilles | They all need to be fixed up and cleaned |
| 00:29.40 | GeneralAntilles | A karma plugin for the wiki would be really useful |
| 00:29.51 | GeneralAntilles | so if you want to poke bergie about getting going on that. . . . |
| 00:33.12 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, what's the plugin supposed to do? |
| 00:33.24 | crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, see who works a lot on different pages? |
| 00:33.25 | mdg | no luck with vnc |
| 00:33.46 | crashanddie | actually, lcuk uses vnc quite a lot :D |
| 00:34.02 | lcuk | only at work |
| 00:34.08 | GAN800 | Grab the number of edits from each user, do a karma calculation on that number and add it to a user's karma count. |
| 00:34.46 | crashanddie | lcuk, it was just a poor wordplay on "no lcuk with vnc" |
| 00:34.56 | GAN800 | So, if you login and click 'prefs' up top it'll show you your edits |
| 00:35.31 | crashanddie | actually, that shouldn't be a wiki plugin |
| 00:35.32 | GAN800 | Need to find a better interface to get that number and collect them for karma. |
| 00:35.42 | GAN800 | karma plugon |
| 00:35.45 | GAN800 | in |
| 00:35.49 | GAN800 | for midgard |
| 00:36.02 | GAN800 | that calculates karma for the wiki |
| 00:36.39 | crashanddie | have you seen dneary's proposition? |
| 00:36.45 | crashanddie | I quite like it, tbh |
| 00:36.49 | GAN800 | about what? |
| 00:37.00 | mdg | Igot a message that the New X desktop is name-desktop |
| 00:37.01 | crashanddie | website refreshing |
| 00:37.02 | *** join/#maemo mk500 (n=mk500@netblock-72-25-104-105.dslextreme.com) |
| 00:37.18 | GAN800 | Oh, yeah, haven't done more than sci. it. |
| 00:37.24 | GAN800 | scim |
| 00:38.22 | crashanddie | http://abstrusegoose.com/strips/a_wise_man_once_said.PNG |
| 00:38.26 | crashanddie | this is just so true |
| 00:47.26 | mdg | geez,I can'teven get VNC working! |
| 00:48.06 | *** join/#maemo gregorovius (n=diego@host164.190-139-223.telecom.net.ar) |
| 00:48.45 | lcuk | start the server on your n810, start the client on your pc, enter ip of your nokia in connection box and bingo! |
| 00:49.37 | lcuk | if theres a firewall or routing problem then thats your configuration issue |
| 00:49.38 | yacoob | s/bingo/profit/ |
| 00:49.56 | lcuk | is not an underpant gnome |
| 00:53.21 | crashanddie | lcuk, no, but you live up north and talk funny, therefore, you must be one of the forefathers of Slashdot |
| 00:54.04 | lcuk | ive got a 6 digit uid on /. you tell me if im a forefather |
| 00:56.27 | lcuk | by the way crashanddie, is it considered multitouch if you keep one finger still? |
| 00:56.31 | lcuk | well, thumb |
| 00:56.39 | mdg | lcuk is 770 running os2006 |
| 00:56.45 | crashanddie | lcuk, i've been thinking about that |
| 00:56.53 | *** join/#maemo dholbert (n=dholbert@adsl-99-175-102-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:57.00 | lcuk | mdg, excellent, at least graphically ill be faster than this 810 |
| 00:57.32 | lcuk | well i kinda have the algo in place, but its a bit jittery atm - needs a filtering stage to make it work better |
| 00:58.52 | mdg | what would be the name of the vnc client on a pc |
| 00:59.38 | lcuk | vncviewer.exe or similar, have you never used vnc? |
| 00:59.46 | mdg | no never have |
| 01:00.02 | lcuk | ahhh that explains it then |
| 01:00.11 | lcuk | thought vnc was taught in kindergarden |
| 01:00.32 | mdg | oh i type vncviewer and had a pop-up box and when I typed in the IP of my nokia it was unab le to connecty |
| 01:00.58 | lcuk | do you have a firewall between your pc and your nokia |
| 01:01.00 | mdg | it says "no route to host" |
| 01:01.06 | lcuk | software on pc, on router etc |
| 01:01.14 | lcuk | can you ping your nokia from your pc |
| 01:01.44 | mdg | pc I am using is running Mint Cassadra connected via wifi to router configured as AP |
| 01:03.00 | mdg | connection refused - uh oh |
| 01:04.21 | lcuk | crashanddie, is the nokia pingable by default? (i seem to recall it is) |
| 01:07.24 | mdg | Hmm, |
| 01:08.28 | crashanddie | lcuk, yeah |
| 01:08.48 | lcuk | thought so, mine is now, but wasnt sure if i'd added anyfink |
| 01:11.31 | *** join/#maemo Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 01:12.13 | mdg | I can't believe this is so hard! |
| 01:12.48 | lcuk | its not, you simply have a paranoid security configuration :) |
| 01:13.50 | mdg | yeah, leave it to me to be paranoid! LOL |
| 01:14.24 | lcuk | best security is to restrict services from the network :) |
| 01:15.33 | lcuk | is it your router thats fudgin you or a software firewall on your pc |
| 01:15.57 | mdg | no firewall on either mint pc |
| 01:16.23 | mdg | windows pc isnt' even turned on |
| 01:16.36 | lcuk | ahhhh that explains the paranoia :) |
| 01:16.54 | mdg | LOL |
| 01:17.22 | lcuk | cant talk - im runnin in windows |
| 01:18.06 | lcuk | is your 810 connected to the network? |
| 01:18.20 | derf | So, QR code decoding works. |
| 01:18.21 | lcuk | can it see the other machines and the wider internet |
| 01:18.28 | lcuk | NICE derf |
| 01:18.37 | lcuk | or should i say 10011010101011011101 |
| 01:18.46 | mdg | yes |
| 01:18.58 | derf | I've got one code I can't decode, but I can't decide if it's just totally broken, or some other variation of the format. |
| 01:19.05 | derf | The version bits are in the wrong order, for example. |
| 01:19.06 | *** join/#maemo Pebby (n=PebbyWeb@c-24-5-47-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 01:19.25 | mdg | see other machines? |
| 01:19.30 | lcuk | is it a random image you found online, or a live in use code on a product |
| 01:19.39 | derf | Random image online, of course. |
| 01:19.54 | lcuk | mdg, yeah your network should be crawling with other infected zombies ;) |
| 01:20.06 | lcuk | have you tried mirror/flipping it - or does the algo cater for it |
| 01:20.13 | mdg | infected zombies? |
| 01:20.18 | derf | lcuk: No, I mean, they're interleaved in the wrong order. |
| 01:20.25 | derf | No amount of flipping will help you. |
| 01:20.31 | lcuk | ahhh, but i have seen people often randomly flip barcodes for asthetic purposes ;) |
| 01:21.02 | derf | As in, they're in a 3x6 area, and the bits read down columns, instead of across rows. |
| 01:21.11 | lcuk | what other places have the codes available |
| 01:21.16 | lcuk | can you goto a shop and test it |
| 01:21.30 | derf | I haven't got it into the full app yet. |
| 01:21.41 | derf | Just a command-line program for testing. |
| 01:22.29 | lcuk | arent the best programs command line driven |
| 01:22.43 | derf | Of course, but it makes it inconvenient to use in the actual device. |
| 01:23.01 | derf | I want to do some more work on the binarization, too. |
| 01:23.13 | derf | It's got some pretty clear deficiencies. |
| 01:25.43 | lcuk | glad you are advancing though :) is this all your own code or have you swiped and converted on of the java (or other) libs |
| 01:25.43 | derf | This is basically all my own. |
| 01:25.43 | derf | I started with someone else's Reed-Solomon decoder, but I changed it a lot. |
| 01:26.17 | lcuk | mangling is fun |
| 01:26.21 | mdg | oh well - thanks for the help |
| 01:27.47 | derf | I should let the guy doing the Java one know. |
| 01:28.20 | derf | The generator polynomial he's using is starting from the wrong index, so it's totally busted. |
| 01:28.22 | lcuk | even though you turned his canoe into an ocean going liner |
| 01:28.53 | derf | The only reason his code works at all is that it doesn't correctly reject things when there's too many errors. |
| 01:30.27 | lcuk | brute force |
| 01:30.59 | derf | This has nothing to do with brute force. |
| 01:32.13 | t_s_o | is it me or is itt overrun by trolls these days? |
| 01:33.33 | lcuk | tso, not noticed so many - where in particular? |
| 01:33.47 | lcuk | derf, if hes not rejecting bad codes and checking them anyway - its bruteforce |
| 01:34.05 | t_s_o | heh, i guess i should stop reading/replying to the 200 page monstrosity... |
| 01:34.43 | derf | lcuk: No, his error correction is incorrectly determining that valid codes have lots and lots of errors, and then failing to reject them as undecodable. |
| 01:35.04 | lcuk | ahh |
| 01:35.25 | derf | Hence it "works". |
| 01:35.34 | crashanddie | I'm going to have to get back using java :/ |
| 01:35.35 | derf | But, you know, not really. |
| 01:36.47 | Chani | hrm. so the n810 takes SD-mini? I haven't even seen mini for sale before... it's all sd or micro |
| 01:37.04 | lcuk | lots of micros come with an adapter for mini |
| 01:37.19 | Chani | really wishes it would take sdhc. then I could put a decent amount of space in there |
| 01:37.31 | lcuk | it does |
| 01:37.36 | Chani | huh? |
| 01:37.50 | Chani | isn't sdhc the same size as sd? |
| 01:39.48 | *** join/#maemo user__ (n=user@ip-67-222-205-156.dsl-dhcp.blr.huntel.net) |
| 01:40.31 | crashanddie | Chani, SDHC is a standard |
| 01:40.33 | user__ | Hello |
| 01:40.40 | lcuk | http://europe.nokia.com/mu-41 |
| 01:40.44 | crashanddie | Chani, it just means it's over 4Gig |
| 01:40.57 | crashanddie | Chani, has nothing to do with the form factor itself |
| 01:41.15 | Chani | oh. :) |
| 01:41.37 | Chani | do you know what size the micro cards go up to? |
| 01:41.48 | crashanddie | 16gig coming out soon |
| 01:41.53 | lcuk | micro sd cards are all the same size :D |
| 01:42.08 | lcuk | "keep this safe, its listers brain" |
| 01:42.30 | user__ | What's the coolest app nokia has? |
| 01:42.44 | lcuk | liqbase |
| 01:43.12 | user__ | What's that? |
| 01:43.25 | crashanddie | Chani, http://www.mymemory.co.uk/Micro-SDHC/SanDisk/SanDisk-16GB-Micro-SD-(SDHC)-Card---Class-4-(Excluding-Adaptor) |
| 01:43.36 | crashanddie | Chani, so it's around 50 quid, should be out in a month's time |
| 01:43.38 | Chani | ooh, 16 |
| 01:43.43 | Chani | nice :) |
| 01:43.46 | lcuk | crashanddie, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpZiNO2CRtw |
| 01:44.20 | lcuk | user__, its my own software, of course i think its the coolest thing on nokia :D |
| 01:44.49 | user__ | What's it do? |
| 01:45.04 | lcuk | cool stuff |
| 01:45.21 | lcuk | have a look on youtube :) |
| 01:45.43 | crashanddie | lcuk, lol... |
| 01:45.48 | crashanddie | lcuk, I hate red dwarf |
| 01:46.14 | Chani | but.. but... it's red dwarf! :) |
| 01:46.22 | lcuk | :D i grew up with that |
| 01:46.30 | lcuk | its the best comedy on and off earth |
| 01:46.31 | user__ | Watchinged it now |
| 01:46.33 | Chani | can play the theme song |
| 01:46.56 | crashanddie | lcuk, I think that's the difference |
| 01:47.08 | crashanddie | lcuk, you're a 30-odd Briton |
| 01:47.14 | crashanddie | I'm a 20-odd frenchman |
| 01:47.26 | lcuk | forget the 20 and the frenchman ;) |
| 01:47.27 | crashanddie | slightly different culture |
| 01:48.10 | crashanddie | lol... this is just sad |
| 01:48.18 | lcuk | :D |
| 01:48.23 | crashanddie | I was feeling this hard cold thing |
| 01:48.25 | crashanddie | in my bed |
| 01:48.35 | crashanddie | I start looking for what it could be |
| 01:48.37 | lcuk | everytime i think of memory sticks i think of that clip |
| 01:48.47 | crashanddie | found a empty bottle of beer |
| 01:49.37 | user__ | Wow! That's cool lcuk! |
| 01:49.50 | lcuk | see |
| 01:49.58 | user__ | Wish i had an 800 |
| 01:50.34 | crashanddie | user__, you got an 770? |
| 01:51.18 | user__ | Lol! Yes the only one in existence? |
| 01:51.33 | crashanddie | No, I just find there's a lot of 770 users popping up recently |
| 01:51.50 | crashanddie | lcuk, don't you? |
| 01:52.20 | lcuk | dont i what? find beer bottles in bed? |
| 01:52.23 | user__ | Mine was cheaper by a lot |
| 01:52.52 | lcuk | user__, which os are you runnin on it? |
| 01:53.50 | *** join/#maemo hfwilke (n=hfwilke@203.sub-70-218-62.myvzw.com) |
| 01:54.12 | user__ | Os 2006 - can't get it to upgrade |
| 01:54.46 | lcuk | what do you use it for |
| 01:55.17 | user__ | Window wouldn't find hacker 2007 os |
| 01:55.45 | lcuk | window? |
| 01:55.54 | user__ | Just a little bit of everything |
| 01:56.02 | lcuk | is using too many question marks. time for bed i think |
| 01:56.31 | crashanddie | lcuk, last fag? Let's smoke a social one |
| 01:56.43 | lcuk | ive just put mine out |
| 01:57.05 | lcuk | if you roll me one and mail it me |
| 01:57.05 | user__ | Goodnight fellas |
| 01:57.10 | lcuk | nite user |
| 01:58.06 | lcuk | crashanddie, is this just the best cheezburger ever? http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/09/12/funny-pictures-why-u-get-camera/ |
| 01:58.40 | crashanddie | haha |
| 01:58.51 | crashanddie | I like it, but there's one I like even more |
| 01:58.54 | crashanddie | hang on, lemme fetch it |
| 01:59.19 | crashanddie | lcuk, http://mine.icanhascheezburger.com/view.aspx?ciid=1281909 |
| 01:59.19 | lcuk | theres been a few gooduns recently, but everytime i encounter that one i lol |
| 01:59.28 | lcuk | you have an account? |
| 01:59.51 | crashanddie | account? |
| 01:59.52 | crashanddie | nope |
| 02:00.14 | lcuk | lol tis ok i posted before i saw - thought it was from your profile |
| 02:01.04 | lcuk | http://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/23692/1220904231/reese.jpg |
| 02:01.31 | crashanddie | lcuk, btw, if my experience for job hunting has learned me something: 1 get a linkedin profile, 2 get your name high on google |
| 02:01.54 | lcuk | anyone can get their name high on google :) |
| 02:02.06 | crashanddie | I mean with important stuff |
| 02:02.10 | lcuk | it all depends on what the search terms are |
| 02:02.40 | lcuk | you mean your own name linked with decent stuff |
| 02:02.49 | crashanddie | yeah |
| 02:03.20 | lcuk | :) then that is sorted |
| 02:03.22 | crashanddie | I mean like a small sober professional looking homepage, with links to your greatest work, and snippets of your code |
| 02:03.36 | gregorovius | lcuk: you can only claim to have the best app for the NITs _once_ you have released something, not before :P |
| 02:03.48 | lcuk | its in the garage and is open source |
| 02:04.12 | crashanddie | showing how you're a great dev, how you're a great documenter, etc |
| 02:04.17 | *** join/#maemo uncorq (n=MI5@70.195.8.67.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 02:04.23 | gregorovius | "This project has not released any files." |
| 02:04.31 | crashanddie | gregorovius, look better |
| 02:04.37 | lcuk | gregorovius, svn |
| 02:05.03 | lcuk | theres no deb but the code is there - there should be a major update in about a week or so |
| 02:05.09 | lcuk | fingers crossed |
| 02:05.26 | crashanddie | s/should/is going to/ |
| 02:05.31 | gregorovius | i know you're working on it, but I mean release-.deb-maemo-extras |
| 02:05.41 | lcuk | gregorovius, ive never used any of this linuxy stuff before this year, so its all new and uphill for me |
| 02:06.11 | gregorovius | you seem to be making good progress :) |
| 02:06.15 | crashanddie | gregorovius, trust me, it's worth the wait |
| 02:06.32 | gregorovius | yeah, i'm waiting to see what the summit brings |
| 02:06.32 | lcuk | i would prefer to hire a junior to handle the packaging and documenting and stuff :) |
| 02:06.55 | lcuk | hah! the way im feeling right now im not sure ill have stuff done, but as you said ive got the weekend |
| 02:06.56 | gregorovius | btw, has anyone seen the predictive keyboard method posted in ITT? |
| 02:07.27 | lcuk | gregorovius, the one from the t9 guy? |
| 02:07.31 | gregorovius | yeah |
| 02:07.39 | lcuk | it was discussed today and a few prior art things were found so its fair game :) |
| 02:07.55 | lcuk | all i need is a dictionary |
| 02:07.55 | crashanddie | it's buggy |
| 02:08.00 | crashanddie | but "works for me" |
| 02:08.24 | gregorovius | I'd really like to try out something like that |
| 02:08.43 | gregorovius | if it works as advertised, it'd kick the onscreen keyboard's ass thrice |
| 02:08.49 | crashanddie | If I manage to fine tune it, maybe lcuk will be able to demo my version of it during the Summit :P |
| 02:08.49 | lcuk | wheres the actual itt thread? |
| 02:09.12 | lcuk | have you tried an implimentation crash/ |
| 02:09.15 | crashanddie | :D |
| 02:10.19 | *** part/#maemo smackpotato (n=user@bas4-sudbury98-1177812097.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 02:10.42 | crashanddie | lcuk, I have the vectors working, key detection is a bit dodgy, and word matching is too wide/slow |
| 02:11.54 | lcuk | nice |
| 02:12.12 | crashanddie | lcuk, can take up to 10s to find a 5 letter word |
| 02:12.33 | crashanddie | and for some reason "considerate" makes it segfault |
| 02:12.39 | lcuk | it shouldnt need to do anything like that - it should walk down a tree of words |
| 02:13.19 | crashanddie | lcuk, I wrote in like... 3 hours |
| 02:13.23 | lcuk | with a preinitialized wordtree it should be practically instant |
| 02:14.15 | lcuk | are you reading the flattext wordlist file? |
| 02:14.25 | crashanddie | I'm using regexp |
| 02:14.54 | lcuk | that might explain it then |
| 02:15.07 | crashanddie | yeah I know, but like I said, I need to tune it |
| 02:15.15 | crashanddie | I just wanted to see if I could get it work "run" |
| 02:15.23 | lcuk | have you got a wordlist file handy? |
| 02:15.31 | crashanddie | think I do, hang on |
| 02:15.53 | lcuk | mail it me please - if its not too big ill have a try tomorrow |
| 02:16.06 | lcuk | the ones i found were quite volumous and not right for preloading |
| 02:16.18 | lcuk | and i didnt wanna mess with sqlite yet |
| 02:16.27 | crashanddie | how's 1M sound? |
| 02:16.43 | lcuk | bigger than the ones i tried.. |
| 02:16.45 | lcuk | not to worry |
| 02:17.27 | crashanddie | actually... 1M in memory isn't that drastic, is it? |
| 02:17.34 | crashanddie | you just got me thinking :P |
| 02:17.41 | crashanddie | anyway |
| 02:17.44 | crashanddie | I'm calling it a night |
| 02:17.48 | crashanddie | talk to you later bro |
| 02:17.55 | lcuk | ditto |
| 02:17.56 | lcuk | gnite |
| 02:18.02 | crashanddie | 'nite |
| 02:18.04 | lcuk | gnite chan |
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| 05:22.04 | GeneralAntilles | Yes, t_s_o, itT is full of trolls. |
| 05:24.46 | GeneralAntilles | I'd just as soon leave them to it |
| 05:24.53 | GeneralAntilles | itT hasn't been useful in a very long time. |
| 05:28.40 | t_s_o | to bad really |
| 05:30.04 | GeneralAntilles | Meh, if they're wasting their energy there, they're not wasting it at productive places like maemo.org. ;) |
| 05:35.21 | Stskeeps | is definately wasting his time making dpkg-buildpackage'able deblet packages. |
| 05:36.30 | Stskeeps | as in, hours i wish could get back of my life |
| 05:36.31 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 05:50.14 | Stskeeps | hm, anyone who knows if you can make a package depend on name-<kernel version user is running>? |
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| 06:04.29 | Italodance | help |
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| 06:22.36 | RST38h | italo: ? |
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| 06:50.06 | jrayhawk | I need to work out what's going wrong during init on an n810; is there a workable equivalent to single user mode or init=/bin/sh or even getting rid of the splash screen so I can get output more useful than a meaningless blue status bar? |
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| 06:57.53 | Stskeeps | jrayhawk: there's a thread about this on ITT regarding fb console mode i believe |
| 06:59.15 | jrayhawk | ooh |
| 07:00.53 | jrayhawk | I guess the serial console is another option, though documentation for that seems a bit scattered and confusing |
| 07:00.57 | RST38h | afaik there is no fb console mode |
| 07:01.06 | RST38h | at least not in the default kernel |
| 07:01.14 | Stskeeps | RST38h: it's loadable with a module |
| 07:01.53 | Stskeeps | (i do it in deblet on a stock kernel) |
| 07:03.29 | jrayhawk | Is the n810 keyboard kernel keymapped or is it X event magic? |
| 07:03.42 | jrayhawk | X-interpreted event |
| 07:04.07 | Stskeeps | it's in input0-3 or something |
| 07:04.32 | jrayhawk | Wacky. |
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| 07:18.54 | jrayhawk | Uhh... where do I find the maemo ("omap1"?) patchset? |
| 07:19.05 | jrayhawk | For the kernel, that is. |
| 07:19.13 | Stskeeps | you want the .o's needed? :P |
| 07:20.00 | jrayhawk | Oh. I figured it was open source. |
| 07:20.17 | Stskeeps | yeah, it is, but it's easier with .o's :P |
| 07:20.40 | Stskeeps | http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/2.6.21-omap1.tar.gz , http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet/browser/trunk/packages/main/omap-fb-tools , http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet/browser/trunk/packages/main/omap-fb-console is what i use in Deblet to make the console fb work |
| 07:20.55 | Stskeeps | (look at the init.d scripts for inspiration) |
| 07:23.16 | jrayhawk | I was hoping to go the monolithic route on the basis that I want to give userspace as little opportunity as possible to screw up my debugging efforts. |
| 07:23.47 | jrayhawk | Plus the monolithic route enables me to replace the kernel and nothing else. |
| 07:24.00 | jrayhawk | (Which is, for some reason, a constraint on the bizarre flasher tool) |
| 07:24.23 | jrayhawk | s/ on / in / |
| 07:25.45 | GeneralAntilles | Bizarre? |
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| 07:28.48 | jrayhawk | Is it possible to make a copy of the rootfs or initfs currently on a Nokia? |
| 07:29.06 | GeneralAntilles | Sure |
| 07:30.17 | jrayhawk | I mean, given the constraint that I can't fully boot it because init seems to be broken. |
| 07:30.40 | jrayhawk | How is that done? |
| 07:31.04 | Stskeeps | jrayhawk: i think you can prod qwerty12 - he did some work in that area |
| 07:31.13 | Stskeeps | with a initfs hack |
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| 08:14.15 | Sargun | bo |
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| 08:46.03 | RST38h | hello, zap |
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| 08:48.11 | zap | RST38h: hi |
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| 08:51.52 | Jaffa | Morning all |
| 08:52.27 | lbt | hi everyone |
| 09:00.25 | GeneralAntilles | Howdy |
| 09:03.21 | MishaS | jaffa: fyi, i put fbreader in extras :)) would you re-consider your rating? :D |
| 09:03.31 | RST38h | moo, GA |
| 09:03.42 | Jaffa | MishaS: yup, will do |
| 09:03.49 | MishaS | Jaffa, thank you |
| 09:03.55 | RST38h | Jaffa: You marked FBreader down for not being in Extras? Inexcusable! |
| 09:04.11 | RST38h | kindly suggests to burn Jaffa at a stake |
| 09:04.15 | MishaS | RST38h, that's just one way to encourage lazy developers :) |
| 09:04.22 | Jaffa | RST38h: gotta have some stick to wield ;-) |
| 09:04.36 | GeneralAntilles | I like endlessly badgering the mailing list myself. ;) |
| 09:04.42 | MishaS | dreams of having gronmeyer useless... |
| 09:05.36 | Stskeeps | there should really be a package search engine for the extras/etc though |
| 09:05.47 | Stskeeps | like for diablo/sdk tools etc |
| 09:05.51 | GeneralAntilles | ferenc is working on it |
| 09:05.54 | GeneralAntilles | packages.maemo.org |
| 09:06.04 | Jaffa | MishaS: I don't use Gronmeyer - I don't think there are (m)any apps I've got installed which aren't from extras(-devel) |
| 09:06.24 | MishaS | jaffa, you do not, but others do... |
| 09:06.37 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: a la packages.debian.org ? |
| 09:06.49 | GeneralAntilles | gronmayer's usefulness has gone down a lot since Diablo. |
| 09:06.53 | Jaffa | MishaS: oh, indeed - I hope it goes away by having more stuff in extras :) |
| 09:06.54 | Stskeeps | hopefully more stable than packages.debian.org |
| 09:06.54 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 09:06.57 | GeneralAntilles | It's not even up-to-date anymore. |
| 09:07.14 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I suppose, ferenc mentioned he wanted to take it on during one of the previous sprint meetings. |
| 09:07.44 | mikkov_ | is the repostory.maemo.org still in Gronmayer? ;) |
| 09:07.55 | Jaffa | MishaS: has the old fbreader repo been removed from gronmayer? |
| 09:07.57 | GeneralAntilles | Only the Chinook repos |
| 09:08.53 | GeneralAntilles | Ha, forgot about this one: http://flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/2454546023/ |
| 09:09.11 | GeneralAntilles | Wish X on the VGA weren't so godawful slow. |
| 09:09.16 | mikkov_ | somebody even put repostory.maemo.org link to maemo downloads .install file... |
| 09:09.36 | *** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@a88-114-230-43.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 09:09.43 | MishaS | jaffa: nope |
| 09:10.00 | RST38h | Sts: Search engine exists: fms.komkon.org/maemo |
| 09:10.10 | MishaS | ha, that reminded me to update the 'download' page for fbreader to mention extras... |
| 09:10.12 | RST38h | Sts: And it is even MicroB friendly unlike Gronmayer |
| 09:10.53 | RST38h | MishaS: Btw, can I request to [optionally] show current time in FBReader? |
| 09:11.01 | Jaffa | It does, doesn't it? |
| 09:11.10 | Jaffa | In full screen mode, isn't the time at the bottom right of the screen? |
| 09:11.26 | mikkov_ | requiring buildable sources for extras is the best thing happened for maemo, imo |
| 09:11.32 | Jaffa | yup |
| 09:11.32 | RST38h | Nope - have to minimize it to check whether you have exceeded your daily no-sleep allowance |
| 09:11.52 | MishaS | RST38h, can you elaborate please? |
| 09:11.55 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, it shows time right next to the progress bar |
| 09:12.03 | RST38h | Lemme check |
| 09:12.14 | GeneralAntilles | You can see it right here: http://flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/2848217584/sizes/o/ |
| 09:12.15 | Jaffa | MishaS: re-rated |
| 09:12.23 | MishaS | RST38h, you might need to enable it in options. |
| 09:12.25 | MishaS | jaffa: thank you |
| 09:12.31 | GeneralAntilles | FBReader should probably go into the Pearls now, too. |
| 09:12.35 | RST38h | MishaS: Ah! Checking. |
| 09:12.44 | RST38h | GA: Should be there already |
| 09:13.22 | Jaffa | RST38h: shouldn't have been, cos that's a carrot of getting in extras |
| 09:13.29 | RST38h | yea, time is there! |
| 09:13.38 | RST38h | Jaffa: umgh |
| 09:13.53 | RST38h | still does not understand obsession with extras and source packages there |
| 09:14.04 | MishaS | GeneralAntilles, it used to be there... i'm not sure what it means though :) |
| 09:14.05 | GeneralAntilles | What's not to understand? |
| 09:14.14 | GeneralAntilles | MishaS, https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Remarkable_community_projects |
| 09:14.15 | RST38h | they are of course handy, but why take them so religiously? |
| 09:14.28 | MishaS | RST38h, package in extras means that the user can install it without any additional hassle |
| 09:14.33 | Jaffa | The "obsession" about Extras is that it's installed on all devices by default. Source packages give us flexibility when a package author disappears (as has happened many times) |
| 09:14.41 | RST38h | MishaS: I have got a few packages in extras, I know |
| 09:14.56 | GeneralAntilles | One of the long-term goals is to have Extras ship enabled. |
| 09:15.03 | RST38h | Yea |
| 09:15.13 | RST38h | And it should have been done long time ago too |
| 09:15.26 | GeneralAntilles | Well, Nokia has its own ass to watch out for. |
| 09:15.37 | RST38h | Jaffa: This is only useful if there are people willing to maintain those packages |
| 09:16.00 | RST38h | Jaffa: My guess is that Nokia will end up hiring somebody specificially for package creation and maintenance |
| 09:16.03 | Jaffa | RST38h: there've been a number of instances where someone published a binary package, without source and then never updated it. |
| 09:16.30 | RST38h | Jaffa: not a problem as far as I am concerned: if the author does not like his work, why should we use it? |
| 09:17.02 | Jaffa | RST38h: because if it's a package like X-Chat, the work done in Hildonising it will have to be reinvented when someone wants to pick it up |
| 09:17.07 | RST38h | And if he does, he will take care of it |
| 09:17.22 | RST38h | Jaffa: True but such is life :) |
| 09:17.31 | Jaffa | But not with source packages ;-) |
| 09:17.36 | RST38h | Isn't life about doing the same crap over and over again? =) |
| 09:18.34 | MishaS | RST38h, that's not very optimistic... but it tends to be true... :) |
| 09:18.36 | RST38h | Jaffa: Well, one concern I have is that Nokia will change APIs more drastically in the next 1-2 MaemoOS releases. Then having sources won't help unless there is someone willing to go through them |
| 09:19.39 | mikkov_ | old sources still make it easier to update things |
| 09:19.42 | RST38h | Example: sooner or later someone will have to take care of stupid hw keycode assignments |
| 09:20.12 | RST38h | mikkov: yea, but you won't get the "just a rebuild" advantage |
| 09:20.24 | Jaffa | RST38h: Surely you can see that having some source for an earlier API is going to be easier to update, than one without? Even in terms of GUI customisations for the small screen etc. |
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| 09:20.38 | RST38h | Jaffa: Yes, it will definitely help |
| 09:20.43 | MishaS | well, with sources available Nokia could invest a bit of time to see how compatible existing apps are with new APIs :) |
| 09:20.59 | MishaS | check binary compatibility is more difficult |
| 09:21.03 | MishaS | (checking) |
| 09:21.04 | Jaffa | RST38h: No-one's claiming it'll always be a straight recompile - although for chinook->diablo, diablo Extras could be primed with source packages from chinook Extras |
| 09:21.13 | RST38h | Jaffa: but to be actually useful it requires a person willing to change it - this is very important and it is social not technical detail |
| 09:21.28 | Jaffa | RST38h: and that helpeyness is why we like source packages |
| 09:21.29 | RST38h | still using chinook rootstrap btw |
| 09:21.35 | mikkov_ | RST38h: yes, so what? we don't know when api breaks, and even if does, without old sources _everything_ has to be redone |
| 09:21.49 | GeneralAntilles | Hrm, is Downloads being funky with comments again? |
| 09:21.50 | RST38h | sb2 diablo rootstrap is broken |
| 09:21.55 | Jaffa | RST38h: of course it still requires someone to pick it up if the original author goes away, but the barrier to entry for that person is dimisnhed |
| 09:23.22 | mikkov_ | I have been working to get leafpad and aisleriot from bora to chinook, and it is painful because old sources were not there |
| 09:23.31 | mikkov_ | ah to diablo |
| 09:23.56 | RST38h | Anyone knows where to report sb2 bugs? |
| 09:24.03 | GeneralAntilles | mikkov_, by the way, I installed Beneath a Steel Sky the other day. |
| 09:24.06 | mikkov_ | then you have to crawl around net to find the sources |
| 09:24.17 | GeneralAntilles | _Really_ slick. |
| 09:24.20 | RST38h | mikkov: google to the rescue =) |
| 09:24.37 | mikkov_ | :) |
| 09:24.40 | MishaS | RST38h, according to http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/sbox2, it's https://bugs.freedesktop.org/ |
| 09:25.28 | mikkov_ | GeneralAntilles: BASS is one of the finest adventure games, and it's free now ;) |
| 09:25.58 | mikkov_ | need to get that scummvm to diablo extras |
| 09:26.32 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe, time to get to bugging fanoush |
| 09:26.40 | GeneralAntilles | I'm a bit surprised it isn't already in there, actually. |
| 09:26.50 | MishaS | fanoush, already expressed his opinion in the ml |
| 09:26.54 | mikkov_ | actually i put to extras-devel |
| 09:26.56 | MishaS | s/, / / |
| 09:27.07 | GeneralAntilles | Oh did he? |
| 09:27.26 | MishaS | yes, there are some problems with packaging and he does not want to spend his time on that |
| 09:27.38 | MishaS | he needs help |
| 09:27.44 | mikkov_ | scummvm is in extras devel with all features enabled, but fanoush wants to use tremor instead of vorbis |
| 09:27.44 | GeneralAntilles | mikkov_, sounds like an opportunity. :P |
| 09:28.14 | mikkov_ | and I can't get tremor to work at all |
| 09:28.37 | MishaS | fanoush was talking about special parameters for compilation, i think... |
| 09:28.48 | MishaS | related to code generation issues... |
| 09:29.00 | RST38h | MishaS: Weird... |
| 09:29.02 | mikkov_ | everything else is sorted out except tremor |
| 09:29.23 | RST38h | MishaS: I filed it at bugs.maemo.org, hopefully somebody will pick it up |
| 09:29.48 | MishaS | RST38h, the bug about?.. |
| 09:29.55 | RST38h | Whoever encountered this, please confirm: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3702 |
| 09:30.14 | MishaS | . o O (or is it "a bug about?..) |
| 09:30.23 | RST38h | MishaS: their diablo rootstrap depends on a newer development version of libhildonfm2 that has not yet been distributed to the general userbase |
| 09:30.31 | RST38h | So whatever you build with it will not install |
| 09:30.57 | MishaS | wow! |
| 09:31.03 | MishaS | i'll check with suomya... :) |
| 09:31.44 | RST38h | And now, let us create timeless some work... |
| 09:32.05 | MishaS | RST38h, he does not need help with that... :) |
| 09:32.47 | MishaS | btw, did you get clock? |
| 09:34.02 | GeneralAntilles | mikkov_, how do you use items? |
| 09:34.28 | *** join/#maemo patoh (n=patoh@unaffiliated/pat/x-10101) |
| 09:34.30 | mikkov_ | GeneralAntilles: are you talking about BaSS? |
| 09:34.35 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah |
| 09:34.40 | GeneralAntilles | Stuck in the first room. |
| 09:34.45 | GeneralAntilles | Got the rung, can't use it on the door. |
| 09:34.53 | mikkov_ | select item, then use d-pad center |
| 09:35.20 | GeneralAntilles | How do you select items? |
| 09:35.21 | MishaS | mikkov_, http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/38141#38141 |
| 09:35.41 | mikkov_ | click on the upper edge of the screen |
| 09:36.00 | GeneralAntilles | Aha! |
| 09:36.01 | GeneralAntilles | Thanks. |
| 09:36.15 | RST38h | MishaS: Yes, wonderful =) |
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| 09:36.35 | RST38h | MishaS: He insists on keeping web browser in browserd |
| 09:36.45 | mikkov_ | MishaS: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23071&highlight=scummvm |
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| 09:37.19 | MishaS | mikkov_, that thread was about problems that fanoush had... |
| 09:37.22 | RST38h | MishaS: Although this "solution" has been proved to cause major problems (hangups, memory leakage) and does not significantly improve microb startup time |
| 09:37.25 | MishaS | checks the thread @ itt |
| 09:37.43 | RST38h | So I am gonna file several bugs for this |
| 09:37.51 | mikkov_ | my thread is about solving them ;) |
| 09:37.59 | MishaS | mikkov_, good :) |
| 09:38.00 | *** join/#maemo BabelO (n=Fabrice@lun34-2-82-238-28-28.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 09:38.12 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, I don't think it's "his" decision. |
| 09:38.15 | MishaS | RST38h, i'm not sure that it's timeless who insists on that... :) |
| 09:38.29 | MishaS | RST38h, i'm quite sure that it's not him... :) |
| 09:39.10 | MishaS | as for this solution, looks like chrome -- google's browser -- is on the same path... |
| 09:40.08 | RST38h | GA: Then whoever made it has to be made aware of this |
| 09:40.28 | RST38h | MishaS: I do not care what browser is on the same path =) |
| 09:40.35 | GeneralAntilles | I doubt they're paying attention to Bugzilla. |
| 09:40.54 | RST38h | MishaS: but 30% of total RAM leaked via shared memory, hangups, and other stuff - I do care about |
| 09:41.09 | GeneralAntilles | It seems to me that the implementation isn't necessarily flawed, it's just new and buggy. |
| 09:41.12 | RST38h | GA: I will file 3 bugs and raise ruckus |
| 09:41.33 | GeneralAntilles | Try to keep it civil. |
| 09:41.50 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, the rest of the council is too slow on the uptake for my tastes. :P |
| 09:41.53 | RST38h | GA: it is flawed in a sense that you are keeping the main part of the browser (rendering engine), huge, potentially buggy piece of code, resident |
| 09:42.02 | MishaS | RST38h, i agree that leakages and stability are certainly of concern :) |
| 09:42.14 | RST38h | promises not to call for torching of Nokia HQ |
| 09:42.30 | MishaS | RST38h, however i do not think that getting rid of browserd as such will help to deal with those issues :D |
| 09:42.39 | RST38h | MishaS: My guess is that you will never "fix" Gecko not to hang crash or leak |
| 09:43.07 | GeneralAntilles | I think the benefits will become more evidently when more stuff relies on browserd |
| 09:43.08 | MishaS | RST38h, _i_ certainly won't :D |
| 09:43.09 | RST38h | MishaS: So, it has to be kept in application where it is easier to kill and does not require shared memory |
| 09:43.24 | RST38h | MishaS: I meant it it in general sense :) |
| 09:43.40 | RST38h | GA: Benefits? 10-20% win in startup time |
| 09:43.59 | RST38h | GA: Measured and reluctantly accepted by timeless himself and another guy from Nokia (Roman) |
| 09:44.53 | RST38h | Ok, hangups: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3703 |
| 09:45.52 | *** join/#maemo ttmrichter (n=ttmricht@58.49.19.123) |
| 09:47.03 | MishaS | mikkov_, do you keep your changes in a vcs of any sort? |
| 09:48.17 | mikkov_ | MishaS: I usually try make my changes as patches to original source |
| 09:48.36 | mikkov_ | patches as distributed as part of the debian sources |
| 09:49.02 | mikkov_ | or in diff.gz |
| 09:49.05 | MishaS | mikkov_, i see. did you try those on top of 0.12? |
| 09:49.47 | RST38h | Memory leakage: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3704 |
| 09:50.08 | mikkov_ | ah, for scummvm changes are totally build related, patches are from fanoush. I didn't try 0.12, but there shouldn't be any problems |
| 09:50.29 | MishaS | RST38h, it would be more helpful if you specify the exact version from "about the device'... |
| 09:53.08 | MishaS | (provided the reaction on the bug is immediate, there are no problems, but if the reaction for any reason is not immediate, then... :)) |
| 09:53.51 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, I'm going to start marking them INVALID if you don't start including the version. . . . ;) |
| 09:53.54 | RST38h | MishaS: it is the latest Diablo with the latest software update, trust me |
| 09:54.12 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, yeah, what about in a month or so when the next SSU update comes? |
| 09:54.16 | RST38h | GA: my tablet is charging under the desk, please, save my spine =) |
| 09:54.17 | GeneralAntilles | It wont be the latest Diablo release then |
| 09:54.22 | GeneralAntilles | or a year down the road |
| 09:54.25 | MishaS | RST38h, it's not about trust :) it's about when people will start looking at the stuff. |
| 09:54.27 | RST38h | Ok, ok, will change |
| 09:54.27 | GeneralAntilles | 4.2008.30-2 |
| 09:54.33 | RST38h | MishaS: oh |
| 09:54.33 | GeneralAntilles | Write it down on a post-it note or something. |
| 09:54.36 | RST38h | thanks |
| 09:54.42 | RST38h | Changing bugs |
| 09:54.49 | GeneralAntilles | Or just ask me whenever you file. :P |
| 09:54.56 | GeneralAntilles | ~latest |
| 09:54.57 | infobot | methinks latest is :Sat May 12 03:07:00 2001 ?? |
| 09:55.05 | GeneralAntilles | ~maemo-version |
| 09:55.13 | MishaS | ~cool |
| 09:55.13 | infobot | somebody said cool was there, there, everything is going to fix out |
| 09:55.14 | GeneralAntilles | ~maemo-version is 4.2008.30-2 |
| 09:55.15 | infobot | okay, GeneralAntilles |
| 09:55.19 | GeneralAntilles | There, RST38h. ;) |
| 09:55.54 | MishaS | GA, how to get a list of what infobot does? |
| 09:56.24 | GeneralAntilles | MishaS, that's practically never an option with IRC bots. |
| 09:56.48 | GeneralAntilles | Mostly it does substitution. |
| 09:56.49 | jott | MishaS: query him with help |
| 09:56.55 | GeneralAntilles | s/it/the bot/ |
| 09:57.07 | GeneralAntilles | and it has some binds for various useful stuff like |
| 09:57.09 | GeneralAntilles | ~boot-sd |
| 09:57.10 | infobot | [boot-sd] https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card |
| 09:57.12 | GeneralAntilles | ~flashing |
| 09:57.12 | infobot | methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 09:57.19 | GeneralAntilles | ~diablo-changelog |
| 09:57.20 | infobot | well, diablo-changelog is Announcement: http://tinyurl.com/6k7q7q Version chart: http://tinyurl.com/5duv6t Bugzilla: http://tinyurl.com/68bffr Wikipedia: http://tinyurl.com/4wafha |
| 09:57.24 | jott | ~musthave |
| 09:57.25 | infobot | [musthave] Maemo Mapper, FBReader, Vagalume, Canola, Numpty Physics, X-Chat, Evince, ScummVM, MyTube, MPlayer, Advanced Backlight, USBControl, Large Statusbar Clock, Transmission and much more. Also see http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Remarkable_community_projects |
| 09:57.34 | GeneralAntilles | Then it dispenses insults |
| 09:57.36 | GeneralAntilles | ~lart jott |
| 09:57.36 | infobot | keeps mailing jott free America Online CDs until he drowns |
| 09:57.46 | GeneralAntilles | ~kill GAN800 |
| 09:57.47 | infobot | ACTION shoots a charged anti-meson gun at GAN800 |
| 09:57.52 | GeneralAntilles | ~slap infobot |
| 09:57.52 | infobot | ACTION slaps infobot, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 09:58.27 | GeneralAntilles | There are probably a few more plugins, but that's what we use him for. |
| 10:00.37 | *** join/#maemo Raytray (n=raytray@unaffiliated/raytray) |
| 10:00.47 | mikkov_ | Has anybody tried commenting on maemo downloads? because I think that it's broken again. |
| 10:01.05 | jott | well just query the bot and ask him for "help" to know :) |
| 10:01.14 | jott | ~ddesc hildon |
| 10:01.44 | GeneralAntilles | mikkov_, I just tried to add a comment to FBReader without success. |
| 10:01.47 | GeneralAntilles | X-Fade! |
| 10:02.04 | jott | ~hex ELF |
| 10:02.04 | infobot | ELF is 45 4C 46 |
| 10:02.26 | MishaS | jott: thank ou |
| 10:02.31 | MishaS | s/ou/you/ |
| 10:03.18 | mikkov_ | GeneralAntilles: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3677 |
| 10:03.38 | GeneralAntilles | mikkov_, just confirming that my comment on FBReader still isn't there, then I'll reopen |
| 10:04.10 | mikkov_ | I got two emails that my apps were commented but comments didn't show up in web page |
| 10:04.12 | GeneralAntilles | reopenend |
| 10:04.24 | jott | maybe mgedmin will find some time to make povbot usable.. would be nice to have something like ~extras to search for packages in extras :) |
| 10:04.25 | GeneralAntilles | mikkov_, might want to make a note of that in the bug. |
| 10:04.33 | mikkov_ | will do |
| 10:04.38 | GeneralAntilles | jott, https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:maemo.org_IRC_feeds |
| 10:04.48 | MishaS | is gone for now... |
| 10:04.49 | MishaS | see you |
| 10:05.26 | RST38h | Ok, overall browserd bug report: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3705 |
| 10:05.28 | GeneralAntilles | If somebody has a working supybot it shouldn't be hard to add the bugzila plugin. |
| 10:05.44 | jott | well.. povbot is a supybot.. |
| 10:05.45 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, don't file reports like that. <_< |
| 10:05.57 | GeneralAntilles | One report per issue. |
| 10:05.57 | jott | !version |
| 10:05.58 | povbot | jott: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.1+darcs. The newest version available online is 0.83.3. |
| 10:06.38 | GeneralAntilles | Bugzilla isn't a good place for ultimatums |
| 10:07.04 | RST38h | GA: "keworking browserd" is a single issue |
| 10:07.11 | RST38h | and no ultimatum either |
| 10:07.23 | RST38h | waited with this report for a month or two, too |
| 10:07.34 | GeneralAntilles | "and Better Be Keworked" |
| 10:07.40 | GeneralAntilles | sounds like an ultimatum to me |
| 10:08.44 | GeneralAntilles | Last time I checked, it could be killed from xterm on a stock tablet. |
| 10:08.46 | GeneralAntilles | "be killed using 3rd party tools (CPU load applet, etc)" |
| 10:08.56 | GeneralAntilles | Anyway, whatever. |
| 10:09.02 | GeneralAntilles | will let andre deal with it. |
| 10:10.16 | RST38h | GA: Yes, you can do ps + kill |
| 10:10.57 | RST38h | GA: But how many normal users will do that? From newbie point of view, this will reuire a reboot =9 |
| 10:11.09 | *** join/#maemo lele (n=lele@2a01:2d8:42:42:21a:92ff:fe28:ff59) |
| 10:11.24 | RST38h | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:13.36 | GeneralAntilles | Generally when somebody as "and it better be . . . " there's an implied " . . . or else" after it. |
| 10:14.02 | RST38h | not really |
| 10:14.15 | RST38h | but in some contexts, yes |
| 10:15.29 | GeneralAntilles | Yes really. |
| 10:15.42 | GeneralAntilles | You'd be much better of with "should be" or "needs to be" |
| 10:18.37 | RST38h | does not sound that much better =( |
| 10:22.26 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 10:22.47 | RST38h | GA: check it out now :) |
| 10:23.42 | GeneralAntilles | <_< |
| 10:23.50 | GeneralAntilles | Better |
| 10:25.20 | GeneralAntilles | Just, fyi, bug summaries are typically sentence case rather than title case. |
| 10:28.30 | RST38h | Yes, but it is a habit. I even started to capitalize words in Russian titles |
| 10:28.59 | RST38h | Although it is not required by the language (they use quotes) |
| 10:29.59 | *** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman) |
| 10:30.01 | GeneralAntilles | It's not really an issue, I'm just spastic about consistency |
| 10:30.08 | GeneralAntilles | so you'll know why I change it if I do. ;) |
| 10:30.56 | RST38h | yea, no complaint from me on this |
| 10:41.29 | RST38h | btw, using framebuffer with VGBA speeds it up to 20-25fps, full screen =) |
| 10:43.30 | *** join/#maemo murrayc (n=murrayc@dslb-088-064-064-245.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:46.45 | *** join/#maemo alextreme (n=alex@82-171-161-1.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 10:49.28 | *** join/#maemo Woefix (n=Mickey_@217.139-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 10:49.46 | *** join/#maemo bilboed (n=bilboed@pdpc/supporter/active/bilboed) |
| 10:56.15 | *** join/#maemo aladds (n=aladds@88-110-192-65.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 10:56.29 | aladds | hello :) |
| 10:56.39 | Stskeeps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h24f2YjzWBE <- Deblet Rescue Menu (.. yes, sorry, more deblet brag :P) |
| 10:56.47 | aladds | anyone know why pidgin crashed on login on my 770 w/OS2007HE? |
| 10:56.51 | aladds | *chashes |
| 10:56.57 | aladds | *Crashes |
| 10:57.08 | aladds | is this a known problem? |
| 10:57.29 | RST38h | 770 - no idea |
| 10:57.36 | aladds | i've tried latest and the previous one |
| 10:57.37 | *** join/#maemo pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0C0BA.access.telenet.be) |
| 10:58.02 | aladds | is there some way to get a log? |
| 10:58.07 | RST38h | Sts: change font! =) |
| 10:58.16 | Stskeeps | RST38h: text2screen |
| 10:58.16 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 10:58.16 | aladds | "Internal Error" isn't very helpful... |
| 10:58.52 | RST38h | Don't hide previous icons, display them in a row =) |
| 10:59.10 | Stskeeps | RST38h: would just take hacking fb-progress really :P |
| 10:59.23 | RST38h | guess so... |
| 10:59.38 | RST38h | has been in fb-progress tonight |
| 10:59.43 | RST38h | looking for how they use fb0 |
| 11:01.28 | Stskeeps | RST38h: my "idea" is having an initfs that does boot menus in similar fashion.. isn't impossible at all, but icons might be a bit big :P |
| 11:02.31 | *** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoasnet-ff03dd00-85.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 11:02.58 | *** join/#maemo moontiger (n=lauren@c-67-164-13-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 11:03.59 | aladds | does anyone here use OS2007HE? |
| 11:08.08 | *** join/#maemo rlifchitz (n=rlifchit@ras75-5-82-234-246-228.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:08.25 | *** part/#maemo rlifchitz (n=rlifchit@ras75-5-82-234-246-228.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:08.49 | crashanddie | Does anyone else get the feeling there's a whole lot of new 770 users showing up? |
| 11:09.22 | GeneralAntilles | Seem to be |
| 11:09.34 | Stskeeps | crashanddie: going down the foodchain to family members and stuff prolly |
| 11:09.38 | Stskeeps | and on ebay |
| 11:09.47 | CptLaptop | OS2007 Helium Edition - audio output is always high pitched |
| 11:09.54 | crashanddie | I thought they had died off, like Dinosaurs, a myth only some of us had faintly heard about |
| 11:10.26 | Stskeeps | crashanddie: i've given a hacker friend a 770 in birthday present, hope that'll give a good deblet port for it :P |
| 11:11.10 | aladds | i bought it for £40 on amazon... |
| 11:11.13 | crashanddie | Stskeeps, you're going to have to diversify your array of discussion subjects if you want to remain popular :P |
| 11:11.24 | crashanddie | oh wow, £40? |
| 11:11.27 | aladds | yep :D |
| 11:11.36 | Stskeeps | crashanddie: i talk too much about deblet, i know :P |
| 11:11.59 | GeneralAntilles | hands Stskeeps some notecards on "Nokia not being involved in Bugzilla". |
| 11:12.07 | aladds | it's working great except for pidgin or gaim... |
| 11:12.08 | Stskeeps | hehe |
| 11:12.38 | aladds | i even got skype to sort of work |
| 11:12.41 | aladds | :P |
| 11:12.46 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: ten bucks it's because they have some internal bug system and they don't want to view two |
| 11:13.00 | GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, that's part of the problem, yes. |
| 11:13.17 | GeneralAntilles | Half of poor andre's job is syncing the two by hand. <_< |
| 11:13.18 | aladds | bonjour chat works in a sense |
| 11:13.54 | aladds | if you start the chat from another machine (iChat on my MacBook) then it works fine, but if the 770 starts the chat it crashes when you send messages |
| 11:13.57 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: imho the bugzilla shouldn't have been started at all and they should have made patches to publish the external one instead |
| 11:14.00 | Stskeeps | like a OSS project |
| 11:14.16 | Stskeeps | er, internal one |
| 11:14.46 | GeneralAntilles | The long-term goal at the moment is to banish all of the open source projects from the internal tracker. |
| 11:14.48 | Stskeeps | "look, you can submit bugs here but we won't view it until the community rebels" |
| 11:14.48 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 11:15.25 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: a system with all components and public/private bugs/comments is a lot better |
| 11:15.45 | Stskeeps | so the bug reporting is more open as well |
| 11:16.15 | RST38h | Can't safely publish the internal bug tracker |
| 11:16.34 | RST38h | It is bound to leak some internal details that would be deemed sensitive |
| 11:17.03 | Stskeeps | prolly, but the benefit of community bug reporting may weigh more :P |
| 11:17.19 | RST38h | Probably not a lot but enough for a genuinely interested gentlemen paid to do this kind of stuff |
| 11:18.33 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@cpc1-oldh7-0-0-cust232.manc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 11:19.04 | Stskeeps | wonders if dropbox will succumb to the demands of an armel port |
| 11:19.14 | Stskeeps | people are very interested to get it on slugs and tablets |
| 11:19.25 | RST38h | lcuk: 20-25fps full screen, running VGBA at 720x480 |
| 11:19.40 | RST38h | what IS dropbox? |
| 11:19.41 | lcuk | nice! does arbitary scaling work in rgb then? |
| 11:19.48 | RST38h | lcuk: seems so |
| 11:19.52 | lcuk | even nicer |
| 11:19.59 | lcuk | wonder why it wasnt implimented anywhere else |
| 11:20.01 | Stskeeps | RST38h: RST38h http://www.getdropbox.com/ |
| 11:20.04 | lcuk | hows the tearing |
| 11:20.07 | RST38h | I am now thinking of using it when in window mode as well |
| 11:20.07 | crashanddie | http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41t52ZS9heL._SS500_.jpg |
| 11:20.13 | crashanddie | this is actually pretty good looking |
| 11:20.14 | RST38h | right now it is not |
| 11:20.24 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, this version in Extras? |
| 11:20.27 | lcuk | are you not updating the fullscreen? |
| 11:20.29 | RST38h | but I am considering getting rid of vsync and tearing to make it run faster |
| 11:20.33 | RST38h | GA: not yet |
| 11:20.49 | RST38h | GA: highly experimental but will filter into all of my emulators |
| 11:21.16 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe, was just about to push me over the edge into putting the effort into getting it installed and moving some ROMs over. :P |
| 11:21.22 | lcuk | understands experimental |
| 11:21.31 | RST38h | lcuk: I am using hw scaler when in full screen mode but not in windowed mode |
| 11:21.47 | RST38h | lcuk: as to doing 720 instead of 800, it is mainly to keep aspect right |
| 11:22.04 | lcuk | gah! ive got my 810 set to stay bright when charging - however if it was powered off and its turned on with the charger in it still does screen blanking |
| 11:22.31 | RST38h | GA: Install the current version - it is not a speed demon but not bad either |
| 11:23.01 | lcuk | RST38h, whats the native resolution you are drawing at? |
| 11:23.12 | lcuk | cos gba isnt 720*480 is it? |
| 11:23.20 | GeneralAntilles | Haha |
| 11:23.30 | RST38h | lcuk: 240x160 |
| 11:23.33 | crashanddie | lcuk, yeah I think I noticed something alike |
| 11:24.33 | GeneralAntilles | Anybody make the Wiimote stuff more straightforward yet? |
| 11:25.27 | lcuk | crashanddie, its about the 4th time ive noticed, its not a big deal, but last time i popped the charger and before i got it back in it shutdown \@/ |
| 11:25.42 | GeneralAntilles | I think there's a bug for it. |
| 11:25.48 | GeneralAntilles | Not sure if it was ever confirmed. |
| 11:26.08 | GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3300 |
| 11:26.10 | GeneralAntilles | Vote. |
| 11:26.16 | crashanddie | lcuk, I want to buy a cheap desktop, know where? |
| 11:26.17 | lcuk | coughs |
| 11:26.26 | lcuk | ikea? |
| 11:27.19 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, why "Other" and not "Games"? |
| 11:27.23 | mavhc | everywhere |
| 11:28.17 | RST38h | GA: Is VGBA still in Other? |
| 11:28.34 | GeneralAntilles | Looks like it |
| 11:28.40 | lcuk | RST38h, at 480*320 (doubled your native to get required color plane resolution) and rendering fullscreen scaled bitmaps gives 43fps. the actual do not a lot framerate is 66fps |
| 11:29.14 | RST38h | lcuk: well, I have to do quite a bit more than just blitting it ;) |
| 11:29.16 | GeneralAntilles | As is colem |
| 11:29.25 | crashanddie | lcuk, is 80 quid cheap for a desktop then? |
| 11:29.33 | RST38h | Downloads shows them in Games |
| 11:29.45 | lcuk | no i know - im merely pointing out what the display is capable of |
| 11:29.51 | RST38h | Ah, I guess they are marked as Other inside .deb packages |
| 11:29.56 | GeneralAntilles | This'd be the .deb section |
| 11:29.57 | GeneralAntilles | yeah |
| 11:30.11 | RST38h | I clones those from fMSX .deb |
| 11:30.14 | RST38h | s/clones/cloned/ |
| 11:30.16 | *** join/#maemo trev0r (n=t@S01060013f705e7d1.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 11:30.19 | lcuk | heh, if i use 320*160 greyscale+halfres color i get 250fps! |
| 11:30.26 | RST38h | heheh |
| 11:30.48 | RST38h | you probably know that an LCD display normally updates at 50-120fps ;) |
| 11:31.05 | lcuk | no, im still living in a crt dominated world |
| 11:31.37 | lcuk | gets back to reality and carries on with stuff - ill bebasically afk for most of this weekend |
| 11:32.07 | mavhc | doesn't a, say, 5ms refresh mean an lcd can do 200fps? |
| 11:32.37 | RST38h | it may |
| 11:32.45 | RST38h | if you manage to update it at this rate |
| 11:32.47 | lcuk_busy | it doesnt mean you cant send data to it quicker |
| 11:32.51 | *** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoasnet-ff03dd00-85.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 11:32.52 | lcuk_busy | it just means it wont respond in time |
| 11:34.27 | RST38h | btw, 5ms LCD panel is probably bogus |
| 11:34.43 | RST38h | They have not measured the complete change fromblack to white |
| 11:35.23 | RST38h | GA: Fixed categories, next releases will go into games |
| 11:37.14 | GeneralAntilles | Thanks! |
| 11:38.31 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: heh, I know what you mean. Busy weekend for everyone, though |
| 11:38.54 | *** join/#maemo housetier (n=housetie@unaffiliated/housetier) |
| 11:39.00 | GeneralAntilles | Damn, RST38h, color me impressed. |
| 11:40.25 | *** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman) |
| 11:41.37 | RST38h | ? |
| 11:42.09 | GeneralAntilles | Messing with VGBA |
| 11:43.26 | RST38h | ah |
| 11:43.45 | GeneralAntilles | Is there a keymap somewhere? |
| 11:43.58 | RST38h | Yea, just read VGBA.html |
| 11:44.08 | RST38h | Keys work generally the same way everywhere |
| 12:00.53 | *** join/#maemo [nine] (n=nine@2001:4b10:1015:1:211:9ff:fe26:110c) |
| 12:07.10 | *** join/#maemo errordeveloper (n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
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| 13:03.35 | Stskeeps | ponders idly |
| 13:03.50 | Stskeeps | did anyone notice there's an xorg server in http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1/free/x/xorg-server/? |
| 13:04.08 | GeneralAntilles | Fremantle is moving to X.org |
| 13:04.17 | *** join/#maemo p| (n=pi@62.13.169.90) |
| 13:04.32 | Stskeeps | yeah, i know, just thought that the xorg wasn't published yet |
| 13:07.37 | *** join/#maemo greentux (n=lemke@BAA24c6.baa.pppool.de) |
| 13:09.13 | *** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@ip-80-226-0-1.vodafone-net.de) |
| 13:09.19 | crashanddie | lol:http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/hockey_fan.jpg |
| 13:10.57 | aquatix | ghehe |
| 13:15.18 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: okay, either i'm seeing things or i've been running with xorg since i installed rotation support :P |
| 13:15.35 | GeneralAntilles | Gotta be seeing things. |
| 13:15.50 | GeneralAntilles | That'd totally creep me out. |
| 13:16.44 | *** join/#maemo mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 13:18.34 | Stskeeps | well, http://sse2.net/rotate/ , look at the version number of xorg-server, and strings of my installed Xomap says type='method_call',interface='org.x.config.input' |
| 13:19.12 | Stskeeps | it's kdrive, yes, but it's built off the source from xorg distribution |
| 13:19.13 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 13:20.52 | Stskeeps | maybe their intention is to run some non-tinyx thing, i dunno |
| 13:22.46 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@78-105-80-81.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 13:22.59 | Stskeeps | afternoon qwerty12_N800 |
| 13:23.10 | qwerty12_N800 | hi Stskeeps |
| 13:24.19 | qwerty12_N800 | The N800 isn't actually a bad device for hacking networks with wep |
| 13:25.15 | crashanddie | qwerty12_N800, you have a kismet version, don't you? |
| 13:25.59 | Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: on holidays or field trip and hacking inet access? :P |
| 13:26.47 | qwerty12_N800 | crashanddie: it isn't mine, kismet authors upstream fixed nokia oddities and tz1 on itt made some more fixes and provided a deb. i left kismet running for 24 hours fine |
| 13:26.59 | crashanddie | qwerty12_N800, link? |
| 13:27.09 | qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: :p, i'm changing provider so... |
| 13:28.23 | Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: are you youtubeable? |
| 13:28.32 | qwerty12_N800 | crashanddie: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=190941 , find tz1's kismet deb and install my version of aircrack |
| 13:28.39 | qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: no idea |
| 13:29.03 | Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h24f2YjzWBE if you are, - played a bit around with fb-progress and text2screen |
| 13:29.17 | qwerty12_N800 | crashanddie: 24 hours of dumping packets and 1m 30secs cracking the key with aircrack |
| 13:29.44 | qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: cool, i'll hopefully be able to see :) |
| 13:31.16 | qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: looks like i am, VERY nice work :) |
| 13:31.46 | Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: it's just a shellscript really and pngs.. didn't include it in my linuxrc just yet |
| 13:33.09 | Stskeeps | wtf is wrong with the debian mirrors today, my debootstrap keeps on failing |
| 13:33.16 | GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, turn it into a scrolling menu? |
| 13:33.50 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: hm? if i get fb-progress to paint 3 diff pngs on same screen, sure |
| 13:34.57 | GeneralAntilles | I'm just thinking it'd be easier to see the available options if they're all right in front of you. |
| 13:35.02 | crashanddie | qwerty12_N800, ncurses-base :'( |
| 13:35.19 | qwerty12_N800 | crashanddie: add sdk repo and apt-get it |
| 13:35.29 | crashanddie | k |
| 13:35.40 | Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: yeah, i agree - for now it's just a fun prototype :) |
| 13:35.59 | qwerty12_N800 | jott: my kernel package is the exact same as the nokia one but with the zimage replaced :) |
| 13:36.16 | GeneralAntilles | Nokia's got some sort of recovery mode, too. |
| 13:37.22 | qwerty12_N800 | jott: but i see what you mean about the software version stuff...I warned that would happen and did post an update when nokia finally released sources |
| 13:38.08 | *** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@61.51.163.109) |
| 13:38.09 | jott | qwerty12_N800: ah did not realize they actually released the sources. |
| 13:40.18 | jott | qwerty12_N800: have you run a diff between the versions? |
| 13:40.59 | qwerty12_N800 | jott: no, but nokia included a changelog |
| 13:44.27 | lcuk_busy | question: does life scroll up or down? do i put my newest media at the bottom of a list and let it scroll upwards - like the irc channel (thats for later), or newest at the top of the page and scroll down to older? |
| 13:51.51 | lcuk_busy | life apparantly stops heh |
| 13:52.06 | jott | lcuk_busy: depends on the content i would say :) |
| 13:52.22 | lcuk_busy | im thinking for graffiti live scrolling view |
| 13:52.58 | lcuk_busy | im about () this close to allowing text notes (tweets ;)) and they should flow like scrollback |
| 13:53.35 | lcuk_busy | otherwise its juddery if you add a group of lines - the order of them is thrown out if shown in reverse order |
| 13:53.49 | GeneralAntilles | juddery? |
| 13:54.07 | jott | qwerty12_N800: so nothing relevant changed? :P |
| 13:54.12 | lcuk_busy | in your mind reading the latest before what was written before |
| 13:54.28 | lcuk_busy | imagine the irc chan flowing backwards |
| 13:55.13 | jott | qwerty12_N800: i gather this "WiWLAN" has to do with wimax? |
| 13:55.39 | qwerty12_N800 | jott: nope :p. just some wimax driver source released. i keep shoving your rotation patch in each ssu updated kernel to keep the punters happy :) |
| 13:55.43 | qwerty12_N800 | jott: yeah |
| 13:56.41 | crashanddie | qwerty12_N800, where does kismet store the network dumps? |
| 13:57.36 | *** join/#maemo lopz (n=gentoo-d@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 13:58.07 | qwerty12_N800 | crashanddie: /media/mmc1/kismet by default i think. I think you edit /etc/kismet/kismet.conf to change location |
| 13:58.31 | lcuk_busy | http://www.flickr.com/photos/yorkie/2370080030/sizes/o/ my god this makes me hungry |
| 13:58.45 | qwerty12_N800 | should update that aircrack compile later |
| 14:00.07 | crashanddie | qwerty12_N800, can't find anything called media in conf file |
| 14:00.13 | crashanddie | qwerty12_N800, is it the "fifo" line? |
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| 14:01.47 | qwerty12_N800 | crashanddie: no idea, logtemplate has a media string in it, wait, i'll grep my entire kismet folder |
| 14:02.08 | crashanddie | thanks |
| 14:02.43 | qwerty12_N800 | crashanddie: just checked, only logtemplate matches |
| 14:03.08 | qwerty12_N800 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:03.17 | qwerty12_N800 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:03.49 | qwerty12_N800 | has to beat 22 hours on his tablet |
| 14:04.22 | GeneralAntilles | My 770 usually has crazy uptime |
| 14:04.45 | GeneralAntilles | Since it's tethered to the wall all the time and only leaves when I go on vacation. |
| 14:09.41 | qwerty12_N800 | Heh, usually i switch off the N800 or remove the battery due to it crashing. y/day was a special exception due to kismet doing its stuff |
| 14:11.06 | qwerty12_N800 | hates compiling for my router more than i do the initfs |
| 14:11.43 | Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: i'm making deblet more debian friendly.. with dpkg-buildpackage and all that shit. -that- is a shitty job |
| 14:11.46 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 14:12.32 | Stskeeps | but i'm amazed with how much OS2008 stuff that's actually OSS these days |
| 14:12.49 | qwerty12_N800 | :p, you finally gave in to the powers that be debian/rules etc then :p |
| 14:13.19 | Stskeeps | well i'm switching to only a tablet non-free repository on the tablet itself, and an apt repository |
| 14:14.06 | lopz | hola |
| 14:14.08 | Stskeeps | and generally cleaning up the packages |
| 14:15.56 | qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: i have to run a httpd on my computer to test out binaries on the router because the dropbear implementation it comes with is retarded :p |
| 14:16.12 | Stskeeps | hehe |
| 14:16.24 | Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet/browser/trunk/packages work so far |
| 14:17.42 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@a88-112-0-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:19.02 | qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: sounds like you have made a lot of changes,would upgrade_deblet update my currently installed deblet? |
| 14:19.21 | Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: right now upgrade_deblet will break - when i'm done it will |
| 14:19.29 | Stskeeps | it won't trash the tablet, just not upgrade properly :P |
| 14:19.37 | qwerty12_N800 | k, thanks |
| 14:20.15 | Stskeeps | this will make new updates to the system -much- easier, as it's very little we have to update the non-free packages |
| 14:25.47 | qwerty12_N800 | RST38h: around? |
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| 14:29.36 | qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: btw, keeping framebuffer in auto slows down time to "draw" to the screen which may explain why you got faster results when using a splash |
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| 14:32.26 | Jaffa | 's maemo.org presentation template sample: http://bleb.org/software/maemo/mud-builder.pdf |
| 14:33.44 | inz | Jaffa, does mud-builder use nerual networks for something?-) |
| 14:34.09 | Jaffa | 'sposed to show community stuff |
| 14:34.30 | GeneralAntilles | The white background on the title text is a little weird |
| 14:34.34 | Jaffa | Trawling through sxc.hu to find a suitable image which isn't too corporate is a little tedious |
| 14:34.45 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: it's slightly transparent, not sure I like it yet |
| 14:34.55 | GeneralAntilles | I'd go more transparent. |
| 14:35.05 | GeneralAntilles | and bump up the top padding on both lines. |
| 14:35.28 | GeneralAntilles | Maybe bump the type size a bit. |
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| 14:48.30 | aladds | if you use the garnet VM, where are the storage files kept? |
| 14:48.56 | aladds | i'd like to shove it on my MMC and symlink to it (to save space on internal) |
| 14:49.20 | qwerty12_N800 | ~/.gvm i'd guess |
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| 15:05.17 | lcuk_busy | http://www.flickr.com/photos/yorkie/2370080030/sizes/o/ my god this makes me hungry |
| 15:05.21 | lcuk_busy | shit |
| 15:05.42 | qwerty12 | ~seen brontide |
| 15:05.46 | infobot | brontide <n=brontide@venus.smog.albany.edu> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 23h 3m 55s ago, saying: 'engrish is always good for a laugh'. |
| 15:05.46 | qwerty12 | ~seen snowmoon-work |
| 15:05.47 | infobot | snowmoon-work <n=brontide@venus.smog.albany.edu> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 1h 17m 25s ago, saying: 'Doh'. |
| 15:07.09 | GeneralAntilles | lcuk_busy's uh fatty |
| 15:07.22 | GeneralAntilles | just ate a giant burger |
| 15:07.26 | GeneralAntilles | is not hungry. |
| 15:07.31 | lcuk_busy | i drooled |
| 15:07.40 | lcuk_busy | and i also didnt mean to repaste that |
| 15:07.52 | lcuk_busy | i alt tabbed and tried to build |
| 15:07.58 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 15:08.02 | lcuk_busy | is really busy |
| 15:08.09 | GeneralAntilles | Clearly |
| 15:08.13 | lcuk_busy | i dont think my fingers have ever coded so much |
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| 15:17.03 | Jaffa | remembers to download the German maps for Maps |
| 15:17.32 | qwerty12 | ~lart busybox for not having a groups module |
| 15:17.32 | infobot | makes a balloon animal out of busybox for not having a groups module |
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| 15:25.23 | *** join/#maemo mat (n=mat@igoan/mat) |
| 15:25.39 | Stskeeps | qwerty12: it was just dsp headers missing to be able to build osso-esd, right? |
| 15:25.46 | qwerty12 | Stskeeps: yep |
| 15:26.25 | Stskeeps | k |
| 15:26.43 | Stskeeps | my goal is being able to dpkg-buildpackage most stuff so i cant go the easy way :P |
| 15:27.03 | qwerty12 | hehe |
| 15:27.15 | qwerty12 | hates cc'ing for mips |
| 15:28.01 | *** join/#maemo gentooer (n=asdfsf@ool-44c0eaf5.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 15:28.01 | Stskeeps | let's just say i don't look forward to compiling xserver-omap ;) |
| 15:28.15 | Stskeeps | or kernel headers for that sake.. |
| 15:28.39 | qwerty12 | Meh, xomap doesn't take long :). I did it once to put rodrigo's xrandr patch into the xserver for diablo |
| 15:29.43 | qwerty12 | screams as he discovers groups is a script in this old coreutils >.< |
| 15:30.58 | aladds | crazy question, but how do you re-assign applications to different folders on OS2007? |
| 15:31.12 | aladds | because my Extras folder seems to have everything in it :P |
| 15:31.23 | aladds | i'm sure i saw an option to move things before |
| 15:31.29 | aladds | but i don't remember where |
| 15:31.51 | qwerty12 | Control Panel > Panels, Organise. For Os2008 anyway. |
| 15:31.56 | GeneralAntilles | Tasks or something in Control Panel |
| 15:31.59 | GeneralAntilles | It's near the bottom |
| 15:32.24 | GeneralAntilles | Maybe Organize |
| 15:32.26 | GeneralAntilles | I don't remember |
| 15:33.01 | aladds | navigation |
| 15:33.05 | aladds | then organise :S |
| 15:33.05 | *** join/#maemo krau (n=cktakaha@189.70.12.61) |
| 15:33.09 | aladds | thanks :) |
| 15:33.50 | *** join/#maemo avs (n=avs@a88-114-248-201.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
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| 15:50.28 | RST38h | Ok, getting rid of tearsync/vsync |
| 15:50.50 | RST38h | runs faster this way and I hope most users will tolerate some tearing in games |
| 15:58.26 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=faheem@78-105-80-81.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 15:59.14 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, you're citing me in a discussion with me. :P |
| 16:00.13 | RST38h | GA: I know, but it is because you are nicely contradicting yoursel f=) |
| 16:00.33 | RST38h | Anyways, anybody knows what OMAPFB_TEARSYNC and OMAPFB_FORCE_VSYNC really do? |
| 16:01.19 | GeneralAntilles | It's less exciting than it sounds. |
| 16:01.25 | GeneralAntilles | I'm well aware of the distinction |
| 16:01.40 | GeneralAntilles | and it's only because the community has adopted MicroB as the generic name for the browser |
| 16:01.51 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3_ (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-152-181.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 16:02.01 | GeneralAntilles | Because "Mozilla based browser for maemo" just doesn't have a great ring |
| 16:02.16 | GeneralAntilles | But MicroB is most definitely the engine |
| 16:02.27 | GeneralAntilles | It can be the engine or the whole browser |
| 16:02.31 | GeneralAntilles | but never the front-end. |
| 16:02.38 | RST38h | Mmm...maybe |
| 16:02.53 | RST38h | But then the whole thing becomes even more diabolic |
| 16:02.56 | GeneralAntilles | No, truthfully |
| 16:03.58 | sp3000 | diabolic or daemonic? |
| 16:04.13 | lcuk_busy | RST38h, make it an option? |
| 16:04.40 | aladds | oh dear |
| 16:04.56 | aladds | now i have a folder on my mmc called .gvm which i can't delete |
| 16:04.59 | aladds | even as root.. |
| 16:05.08 | aladds | it says "read-only filesystem" |
| 16:05.26 | aladds | whereas mount tells me it's rw |
| 16:05.38 | GeneralAntilles | Card is probably corrupt |
| 16:05.47 | aladds | :( |
| 16:06.11 | GeneralAntilles | fsck it |
| 16:06.16 | sp3000 | mount is busybox, it probably lies |
| 16:06.20 | RST38h | 'Cause it means Nokia has put the whole browser into a daemon :) |
| 16:06.32 | RST38h | lcuk: that is my suggestion |
| 16:06.59 | RST38h | ...and expects it to work whichnobody has expected from web browsers for years now |
| 16:07.08 | qwerty12 | RST38h: Voted on 3705. I'm pretty indifferent on the other bugs. |
| 16:07.15 | sp3000 | ~ $ cat /proc/mounts |
| 16:07.17 | sp3000 | rootfs / rootfs rw 0 0 |
| 16:07.24 | sp3000 | ~ $ mount |
| 16:07.26 | sp3000 | rootfs on / type rootfs (rw) |
| 16:07.33 | sp3000 | er |
| 16:07.38 | sp3000 | oops |
| 16:07.40 | qwerty12 | apt-get install mount-full (in extras I think) |
| 16:07.50 | qwerty12 | then you can have the proper mount by running mount.full |
| 16:08.01 | sp3000 | can't keep track of lines, pastes random things |
| 16:08.42 | RST38h | qwerty: Other bugs are the basis for 3705 |
| 16:08.43 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, browser is not a daemon. <_< |
| 16:08.54 | RST38h | GA: In diablo, it is |
| 16:09.01 | aladds | oh, i rebooted and it's deleted now |
| 16:09.03 | GeneralAntilles | No, the application is not a daemon. |
| 16:09.09 | aladds | i think i'll just use the internal store :P |
| 16:09.15 | GeneralAntilles | ps ax | grep browser |
| 16:09.46 | RST38h | GA: browser = page loader+ renderer + ks |
| 16:09.52 | RST38h | GA: all three are in browserd |
| 16:10.00 | sp3000 | aladds: ga is probably right though, the card would tend to end up ro when something gits fs corruption |
| 16:10.07 | sp3000 | s/gits/hits/ |
| 16:10.13 | sp3000 | die bot die |
| 16:10.15 | GeneralAntilles | ro is 99% certain card corruption |
| 16:10.53 | qwerty12 | hopes BBC stream the real hustle |
| 16:12.35 | *** join/#maemo b0unc3__ (n=b0unc3@host-84-223-137-226.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 16:12.44 | qwerty12 | RST38h: I don't use livejournal, but I guess the other bug has meaning |
| 16:15.02 | RST38h | \\ |
| 16:15.09 | RST38h | qw |
| 16:15.20 | RST38h | qwerty: I don't think it is limited to lj |
| 16:15.37 | RST38h | looks like some css or js bug |
| 16:17.20 | qwerty12 | God knows what it is... Talking about the browser, has anyone tried compiling the MicroB svn? |
| 16:17.33 | GeneralAntilles | Not lately |
| 16:17.43 | GeneralAntilles | Not since pre-30-2 |
| 16:18.27 | qwerty12 | Hmm, I want to try it but at the same time, I'm reluctant. Last time, I had a ~5 hour compile and packages that killed browserd :/ |
| 16:18.44 | *** join/#maemo kkrusty (n=cache@5ad4c437.bb.sky.com) |
| 16:18.50 | GeneralAntilles | Do it again! |
| 16:18.57 | *** join/#maemo madhav (n=Administ@122.167.203.146) |
| 16:19.17 | qwerty12 | Maybe after taking prozac :P |
| 16:20.16 | *** join/#maemo booiiing (n=[booiiin@e180063235.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:20.59 | Jaffa | tries to arrange arrive-in-Berlin drinks. Baloo looks like a likely candidate atm ;-) |
| 16:22.21 | RST38h | Yes, please, kill browserd again, now in especially perverse manner |
| 16:22.28 | RST38h | While we watch. |
| 16:24.40 | sp3000 | lj isn't hurting me |
| 16:24.54 | sp3000 | well, me, maybe, browser*, no |
| 16:25.03 | GeneralAntilles | I was gonna say. . . . |
| 16:25.10 | GeneralAntilles | lj _always_ hurts me. |
| 16:25.50 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, did you ever CC Eero on the memory consumption bug? |
| 16:26.30 | *** join/#maemo VDVsx (n=VDVsx@bl5-148-120.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 16:28.00 | sp3000 | even fitwidth didn't break it |
| 16:28.14 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@189.70.219.182) |
| 16:28.27 | qwerty12 | Anyone here has experience with dropbear? |
| 16:28.37 | *** join/#maemo cmatheson (n=cmatheso@c-98-202-171-197.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 16:29.08 | GeneralAntilles | Back in the 770 days. |
| 16:30.23 | qwerty12 | I need to recompile it with scp & sftp support but the config.h is throwing me off :/ |
| 16:30.24 | RST38h | GA: Not yet, just filed a bug |
| 16:30.34 | RST38h | GA: Hopefully he sees it |
| 16:31.01 | GeneralAntilles | Just drop his name in the cc field. |
| 16:31.02 | RST38h | timeless says it comes from shared memory chunks being left in memory but blaims it on SYSV SHM API |
| 16:31.16 | RST38h | eero@nokia.com? |
| 16:32.00 | GeneralAntilles | just 'eero' should do it. |
| 16:32.44 | RST38h | no exact match. |
| 16:33.28 | GeneralAntilles | I added him. ;) |
| 16:35.56 | RST38h | Thanks! |
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| 16:59.36 | oilinki3 | ukmp is not for os2008? |
| 16:59.56 | Jaffa | oilinki3: use MediaBox instead |
| 17:00.04 | Stskeeps | qwerty13: something you'd prolly enjoy.. just coded ability to dl a first stage debootstrap tar.gz :P |
| 17:00.10 | oilinki3 | Jaffa: same thing with different name? |
| 17:00.27 | Jaffa | oilinki3: No, similar thing, but better and under active development |
| 17:00.59 | oilinki3 | Jaffa: let me check it out. this is for wife who likes the scrolling albumlist |
| 17:01.01 | qwerty13 | Stskeeps: Hehe, maybe I won't have to install nit-env-gnome-basic a 1000 times :P |
| 17:01.34 | Stskeeps | qwerty13: didn't say anything about apt ;) |
| 17:01.38 | Stskeeps | (yet) |
| 17:01.46 | Stskeeps | i guess it would be possible to make a apt-get -d thing |
| 17:01.54 | Stskeeps | that simply injects it into var/cache/apt |
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| 17:02.20 | qwerty13 | hopes this new dropbear binary runs on my router. I'm actually finding normal CC'ing easier than scratchbox. |
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| 17:18.22 | AFBN810 | Hey |
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| 17:19.48 | AFBN810 | hey wouldn't it possible using hildon ui tools to redesign the layout of a theme to make it look good rotated |
| 17:20.42 | GAN800 | It's not the theme |
| 17:20.48 | GAN800 | It's the engine. |
| 17:21.56 | AFBN810 | ok I wasn't sure I was reading that the theme layout (not the look of it but the placement of things would be changed) |
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| 18:05.50 | Stskeeps | http://www.flickr.com/photos/qole2/2853096131/ <- woo |
| 18:06.50 | *** join/#maemo zpol (i=gentoo-d@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 18:07.02 | Jaffa | Cool |
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| 18:07.36 | GAN800 | Ahaha |
| 18:07.48 | GAN800 | The spacebar cracks me up |
| 18:07.50 | cmatheson | tell me if this isn't the appropriate place to ask this, but i haven't been able to update/install anything on my n800 lately. i'm missing /var/lib/apt/lists.new (i have a lists.old), and i'm not sure how to fix that |
| 18:08.31 | Stskeeps | GAN800: weirdest bug ever |
| 18:09.23 | GAN800 | It slays me, though. |
| 18:10.00 | RST38h | cmatheson: why not add repositories from scratch using app manager? |
| 18:10.14 | RST38h | Which spacebar bug? |
| 18:10.42 | cmatheson | RST38h: hmm, i've tried adding repos, but it fails--should that regenerate them? |
| 18:10.48 | Stskeeps | RST38h: look at photo |
| 18:11.12 | RST38h | cmatheson: second guess: cp lists.old lists.new |
| 18:11.22 | *** join/#maemo sven-tek (i=linux@p508ED90A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:11.39 | cmatheson | RST38h: that's what i was thinking too, but i can't figure out how to become root (it seems fairly involved, from what i was able to glean from the wiki) |
| 18:11.40 | RST38h | stskeeps: I think it is trying to tell you something |
| 18:11.56 | RST38h | stskeeps: Maybe it wants blood... or animal guts as a sacrifice... |
| 18:12.12 | RST38h | cmatheson: have you got sshd installed? |
| 18:12.15 | GAN800 | ~root-access |
| 18:12.16 | infobot | hmm... root-access is http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access |
| 18:12.24 | cmatheson | RST38h: no :(, i was hoping to install that when i noticed that i can't install anything |
| 18:12.27 | GAN800 | How in the world is that involved? |
| 18:12.35 | RST38h | GA: he can't install stuff |
| 18:12.41 | RST38h | otherwise it would be easier |
| 18:13.44 | Jaffa | R&D mode is the only realistic way, perhaps |
| 18:15.04 | RST38h | cmatheson: worst case scenario: you have to reflash |
| 18:17.33 | cmatheson | RST38h: ok, i think i'll just do that, thanks for the help |
| 18:17.47 | RST38h | sorry for not being able to figure out something more graceful |
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| 18:19.05 | cmatheson | that's cool, reflashing isn't a big deal--i just thought i'd check if there was another way |
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| 18:35.44 | RST38h | http://gizmodo.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/09/blade_873392i.jpg |
| 18:35.57 | RST38h | "As you can see in the "Blade" vehicle above, efficiency is improved with the wind turbine that designer Ying Hui Choo added to charge an on-board electric battery." |
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| 18:37.48 | RST38h | Is lack of clue necessary for a designer? |
| 18:38.21 | derf | The engine's conversion efficiency might just be really bad. |
| 18:39.14 | RST38h | yes, but how would a wind turbine help? =) |
| 18:39.16 | jrayhawk | Maybe it's expected that you leave it lying around some Dutch hills overnight |
| 18:39.34 | RST38h | yea, in blades-up position =) |
| 18:39.48 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12-N800 (n=faheem@78-105-80-81.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:39.49 | lcuk_busy | could be fart powered |
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| 19:27.42 | Stskeeps | do i remember wrong or is there something that takes a dpkg-buildpackage'able directory and gets the build dependancies through apt? (apt-get build-dep doesn't count. it needs an existing .dsc) |
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| 19:31.01 | Jaffa | Stskeeps: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras is where I put a reference to dpkg-checkdeps |
| 19:35.54 | Stskeeps | excellent :) |
| 19:48.29 | derf | Oh, that's fantastic. |
| 19:48.39 | derf | The following line segfaults with -Os: |
| 19:48.44 | derf | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:48.57 | derf | If I replace them with: |
| 19:49.00 | derf | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.00 | derf | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.00 | derf | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.00 | derf | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.00 | derf | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.02 | derf | It works fine. |
| 19:49.04 | *** join/#maemo mazzen (n=mortel@u30-237.dsl.vianetworks.de) |
| 19:49.05 | Jaffa | Eesh |
| 19:50.32 | derf | Arm only, works fine on x86. |
| 19:50.47 | Jaffa | GCC in buggy compiler shocker. |
| 19:51.18 | timelyx | yeah... |
| 19:51.19 | derf | I'm sure it's fixed in one of the 8 versions of gcc released after the one we have in scratchbox. |
| 19:51.20 | jott | especially gcc 3.4.4 |
| 19:51.28 | timelyx | i'm shocked, really shocked i tell ya |
| 19:53.04 | jott | internal compiler errors are a daily joy with the sbox gcc 3.4.4 too... |
| 19:53.32 | *** join/#maemo p| (n=pi@62.13.169.90) |
| 19:53.57 | derf | For convenience, I also get different behavior if I pass -g or not. |
| 19:54.52 | jott | it's relatively stable with -O0 :) |
| 19:55.26 | derf | It's relatively stable if I don't run it, too. |
| 19:55.38 | jott | even more then. |
| 19:55.42 | derf | And about as useful. |
| 19:55.47 | jott | even more then. |
| 19:55.49 | jott | :) |
| 19:58.22 | ShadowJK | and remember, "Just because it's valid C doesn't mean gcc will compile it", gcc developer quoted from memory :) |
| 19:58.44 | derf | I mean, that is not a complicatd construct. |
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| 19:59.38 | timelyx | ShadowJK: nice |
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| 20:02.49 | lcuk_busy | derf, i gather it works fine when you run without optimizations |
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| 20:05.39 | derf | lcuk_busy: Yes. |
| 20:05.43 | derf | I give up. |
| 20:05.59 | derf | If I add a printf in one function, it changes a result that gets computed earlier in a completely different function. |
| 20:06.08 | lcuk_busy | just leave it in broken lines - its an odd edge case relating to optimization |
| 20:06.24 | derf | lcuk_busy: If that was the _only_ segfault I was getting, I would. |
| 20:06.30 | derf | I can't even diagnose the next one. |
| 20:06.32 | lcuk_busy | ahhh |
| 20:06.37 | t_s_o | something tells me that nokia should have just taken one of their phones, slapped a display across its whole front and gotten opera mini running on it. at least then we would not have the numbers that want the tablet to be a "phone"... |
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| 20:07.25 | mavhc | it's got a speaker and a microphone and a radio, it is a phone |
| 20:07.44 | derf | I wonder how hard it would be to compile gcc 4.3.2 in sb. |
| 20:08.00 | jott | derf: there is a ready package. |
| 20:08.05 | timelyx | derf: compiler tool chain upgrades are a real nightmare |
| 20:08.05 | derf | jott: Genius. |
| 20:08.38 | derf | timelyx: As opposed to crashes that vanish when I try to debug them? |
| 20:08.53 | jott | derf: http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/stable/main/binary-i386/ |
| 20:09.01 | lcuk_busy | quantum effects - the lhc has gone live |
| 20:09.08 | derf | jott: I don't care about i386. |
| 20:09.10 | jott | (not sure if it's 4.3.2 but it's a 4.x) |
| 20:09.24 | timelyx | derf: um |
| 20:09.27 | timelyx | ponders |
| 20:09.28 | timelyx | "maybe" |
| 20:09.32 | jott | derf: it's cross-compiling :) |
| 20:09.44 | timelyx | the browser/flash team have hit a bunch of gcc induced bugs |
| 20:09.45 | jott | derf: your sbox gcc is x86. |
| 20:09.48 | timelyx | i'd rather upgrade |
| 20:09.56 | timelyx | but i do sympathize w/ the people who chose not to |
| 20:10.23 | jott | (thus those packages have to be installed on your host) |
| 20:10.23 | timelyx | it isn't quite "the devil you do know is better than the devil you don't" |
| 20:10.30 | derf | I mean, I understand the ARM side gets a lot less use than x86, but this is fairly ridiculous. |
| 20:10.32 | timelyx | but in practice any change incurs risk |
| 20:10.36 | timelyx | and nokia is fairly risk averse :) |
| 20:10.40 | lcuk_busy | derf, simpler - try an alternative optimization type ;) |
| 20:10.49 | timelyx | -Oz |
| 20:10.51 | timelyx | -Os |
| 20:10.57 | lcuk_busy | i use O3 |
| 20:11.02 | timelyx | gah |
| 20:11.04 | timelyx | please don |
| 20:11.05 | timelyx | t :) |
| 20:11.09 | jott | or manually pick the optimization flags until it fails :) |
| 20:11.12 | timelyx | O3 introduces things which violate contracts |
| 20:11.17 | timelyx | like alignment rules |
| 20:11.23 | timelyx | gcc knowingly generates bad code |
| 20:11.25 | timelyx | and doesn't seem to care |
| 20:11.35 | lcuk_busy | it seems to work for me :) |
| 20:11.43 | timelyx | (anyone interested in arguing is welcome to volunteer to fix the bug, i'll gladly share) |
| 20:11.51 | lcuk_busy | doesnt have random odd crashes unless he explicitely codes them in |
| 20:12.05 | lcuk_busy | im good at making spectacular crashes |
| 20:12.11 | timelyx | lcuk_busy: you also must have a small app |
| 20:12.15 | lcuk_busy | but you lot don't see most of them ;) |
| 20:12.21 | timelyx | we have a number of really sucky gcc induced crashes |
| 20:12.26 | derf | It now crashes under: -Os, -O1, -O2, -O3, and without optimization. |
| 20:12.43 | lcuk_busy | timelyx, then you have other problems |
| 20:12.48 | derf | Note that it behaves differently under several of them. |
| 20:12.50 | lcuk_busy | just reboot your machine and try agian |
| 20:12.53 | jott | derf: unoptimize your code *scnr* |
| 20:13.09 | derf | jott: I would if I had _any_ idea where the problem was! |
| 20:13.28 | jott | gcc 3.4.4 seems to me the problem :( |
| 20:13.30 | derf | But if I add a printf before the place it crashes, it gets a different value somewhere earlier and then doesn't take that code path. |
| 20:13.41 | derf | And crashes somewhere else. |
| 20:13.47 | jott | derf: just install the cs2007q3 toolchain and see if it works. |
| 20:13.53 | lcuk_busy | you sound like you have screwed your stack up |
| 20:14.06 | derf | lcuk_busy: I wouldn't doubt it. |
| 20:14.18 | derf | I am, however, not the one managing the stack. |
| 20:14.20 | derf | That is gcc's job. |
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| 20:15.02 | derf | I mean, unlike the other one, this could in theory be an actual bug. But if I can't find it, that doesn't do me any good. |
| 20:15.04 | lcuk_busy | i only get wierd shit like this when i dont do a clean clean; make after ive been screwing with the structs |
| 20:15.22 | lcuk_busy | make^ |
| 20:15.56 | derf | lcuk_busy: Makefile rebuilds _everything_ if I change the Makefile. |
| 20:16.04 | derf | Which I've been doing repeatedly to change the optimization flags. |
| 20:16.56 | lcuk_busy | ahhhh (can you share the method you are using to do that, it saves me a cmd) |
| 20:17.14 | derf | # Make everything depend on changes in the Makefile |
| 20:17.14 | derf | ${ALL_ASM} ${ALL_OBJS} ${ALL_DEPS} ${ALL_TARGETS} : Makefile |
| 20:18.11 | lcuk_busy | cool, thanks |
| 20:21.25 | timelyx | lcuk_busy: ping |
| 20:21.27 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 20:21.29 | timelyx | do you have sp-* on your device? |
| 20:21.42 | lcuk_busy | sp-? |
| 20:21.50 | timelyx | open xterm, type sp-<tab> :) |
| 20:22.02 | timelyx | there are something like 20 or so sp-/sp_ apps |
| 20:22.15 | lcuk_busy | no, what are they |
| 20:22.21 | qwerty12-N800 | only has sp-oops-extract |
| 20:22.29 | timelyx | i'm looking for a couple of them but don't remember their names |
| 20:22.37 | timelyx | um, can you apt-cache search for the others? :) |
| 20:24.02 | lcuk_busy | timelyx, ive only got dsp* and xsp* stuff, what are they and why do i need to search for em? |
| 20:24.05 | qwerty12-N800 | timeless: sure, a sec |
| 20:25.08 | timelyx | lcuk_busy: well, i only need one person, you were alive :) |
| 20:25.13 | timelyx | but they're helpful apps :) |
| 20:25.27 | lcuk_busy | barely |
| 20:26.12 | lcuk_busy | ill bblater on |
| 20:26.36 | qwerty12-N800 | pastebin not loading... |
| 20:26.44 | timelyx | pastebin.mozilla.org :) |
| 20:27.25 | *** part/#maemo zodman (n=zodman@foresight/developer/zodman) |
| 20:28.35 | qwerty12-N800 | http://slexy.org/view/s23beG9d8o |
| 20:29.28 | timelyx | thanks, i was looking for sp-mem* and sp-smaps* |
| 20:29.55 | timelyx | if you care about stuff, i'd suggest you grab em all :) |
| 20:30.22 | timelyx | would someone please rekill https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3705 |
| 20:31.03 | timelyx | sighs |
| 20:32.38 | qwerty12-N800 | sorry, I voted. but how did RST38h run microb w/out browserd? |
| 20:32.41 | *** join/#maemo psykoTRON (n=fwigoJVO@66.244.5.20) |
| 20:33.07 | timelyx | you just kill -9 it |
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| 20:33.56 | qwerty12-N800 | thanks |
| 20:35.15 | timelyx | afaik he meant w/o it being running not w/o using it |
| 20:35.20 | *** join/#maemo ken (n=user@84.92.70.37) |
| 20:35.23 | timelyx | the browser-ui we ship doesn't support in process browser |
| 20:35.34 | timelyx | and since it's closed source, there's not much of a choice :) |
| 20:38.24 | timelyx | Jaffa/GeneralAntilles: ping |
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| 20:43.32 | *** join/#maemo gregorovius_ (n=diego@host48.190-226-177.telecom.net.ar) |
| 20:43.45 | RST38h | qwerty: I killed browserd and started microb |
| 20:43.55 | RST38h | qwerty: So it had to start browserd and then itself |
| 20:44.05 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@78-105-80-81.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:44.13 | RST38h | qwerty: I killed browserd and started microb |
| 20:44.16 | timelyx | RST38h: to be clear, you aren't luarvique@gmail.com right? |
| 20:44.17 | RST38h | qwerty: So it had to start browserd and then itself |
| 20:44.26 | RST38h | qwerty: That took 2 extra seconds! |
| 20:44.32 | RST38h | timelyx: I am |
| 20:44.54 | timelyx | RST38h: get this clear now. i will disable your account and my own if you reopen this bug again |
| 20:44.54 | timelyx | crystal? |
| 20:45.26 | timelyx | you're violating the trust that a bug system is supposed to engender |
| 20:45.31 | Fatal | for the rest of us, what's wrong with the bug linked above? |
| 20:45.36 | qwerty12_N800 | RST38h: interesting :), on my device, I have to start browserd manually if i killed it |
| 20:45.44 | timelyx | and you're pissing off one of the very few engineers who is trying to increase interaction |
| 20:46.07 | RST38h | timelyx: Mmmm... I will leave your ultimatum without comment but WILL make a mental note about you. Thanks. |
| 20:46.29 | RST38h | qwerty: There are two copies |
| 20:46.46 | RST38h | qwerty: The little 2MB one you do not kill - it is responsible for restarting the large 11MB copy |
| 20:46.46 | Fatal | timelyx: is it the reason that it's a "collection" report, that it summarizes and extends on existing bugs? |
| 20:46.59 | timelyx | Fatal: reload. |
| 20:47.08 | Fatal | will do |
| 20:47.11 | qwerty12_N800 | RST38h: I see |
| 20:47.28 | timelyx | any additional comments and i'll just ban myself from this irc channel and the bug system |
| 20:47.30 | timelyx | and probably find a new job |
| 20:47.34 | timelyx | i don't need this aggravation |
| 20:47.36 | timelyx | clear? |
| 20:48.00 | timelyx | i hear that opensolaris is welcoming |
| 20:48.07 | Fatal | right, valid points, albeit a bit temperd, but I see where you're coming from |
| 20:48.26 | timelyx | sorry you guys pissed me off on my day of rest |
| 20:48.34 | mavhc | why does it take 2MBs of code to start some more code? |
| 20:48.48 | timelyx | mavhc: eh? |
| 20:48.52 | timelyx | there are two parts to the daemon |
| 20:49.00 | timelyx | one is responsible for creating daemons for individual clients |
| 20:49.06 | timelyx | there are actually multiple clients on the device |
| 20:49.18 | timelyx | the tablet-tutorial iirc is a client |
| 20:49.56 | qwerty12_N800 | yeah, it uses the flash plugin from the browser |
| 20:49.58 | Fatal | timelyx: I doubt you have the best of positions hanging in the middle (and no, I haven't read up on current affairs). You have my sympathies, how little they may mean. |
| 20:50.07 | timelyx | http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/139/ |
| 20:50.21 | timelyx | Fatal: for reference, 139 iirc is my sign off from maemo-devel |
| 20:50.29 | timelyx | well really |
| 20:50.31 | timelyx | http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/140/ |
| 20:51.06 | timelyx | anyway, the tiny daemon was another design choice |
| 20:51.25 | timelyx | it doesn't cost much and it's probably mirrored after the design used by maemo-launcher |
| 20:51.27 | timelyx | which people are willing to tolerate |
| 20:51.40 | timelyx | fwiw, in looking around, QTopia has a similar daemon approach |
| 20:51.45 | timelyx | where it basically preforks |
| 20:51.53 | timelyx | it's a standard technique |
| 20:52.08 | timelyx | and the state of browsers is that you will want the browser out of the ui process |
| 20:52.20 | timelyx | we were actually late to that party |
| 20:52.30 | *** join/#maemo simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 20:52.40 | RST38h | This technique causes problems. |
| 20:52.53 | timelyx | RST38h: shut up |
| 20:52.59 | RST38h | Nobody really cares how well it works in Chrome, QTopia, or any other browser. |
| 20:53.04 | RST38h | It causes problems in Maemo. |
| 20:53.34 | timelyx | QSSL (QNX, voyager_server/opera_server/mozilla_server) was there in 2000 or earlier |
| 20:53.42 | timelyx | and their impl just worked |
| 20:53.45 | timelyx | you never heard complaints |
| 20:53.49 | ssvb | RST38h: why do you think that it causes problems? |
| 20:53.52 | timelyx | except for maybe that you could only use one engine at a time |
| 20:54.10 | timelyx | RST38h: if the OS and browser ui don't let you do something about busy apps |
| 20:54.12 | timelyx | then those are bugs |
| 20:54.17 | RST38h | ssvv: It i all described in https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3705 |
| 20:54.18 | timelyx | and they need to be fixed <period> |
| 20:54.22 | Fatal | timelyx: again, my deepest sympathies. It's hard enough to justify design/process desicions in a closed source enviroment with sales and support personell breathing down your neck, and in a semi open community such as this, I bet it attracts alot of flaming and useless repetivness. |
| 20:54.33 | RST38h | ssvv: A bug that timelyx labeled as invalid and told me to shut up |
| 20:54.57 | timelyx | Fatal: i've dealt w/ sales |
| 20:55.02 | timelyx | they're much friendlier |
| 20:55.06 | timelyx | give me sales any day |
| 20:55.12 | ssvb | RST38h: but this bugreport does indeed look invalid... |
| 20:55.23 | Fatal | I wouldn't wish the sales dept at my job on anyone :) |
| 20:55.26 | RST38h | ssvb: It links to two other bug reports, do check those |
| 20:55.38 | RST38h | ssvb: And one of the commenters links to 3 other bug reports |
| 20:56.20 | timelyx | Fatal: yeah, i know the feeling |
| 20:56.21 | ssvb | RST38h: the other bugs do not seem related to this client/server daemon design |
| 20:56.57 | RST38h | ssvb: they in fact are |
| 20:57.19 | RST38h | ssvb: They mention problems restarting browserd when it accidentally dies |
| 20:57.36 | ssvb | RST38h: so what? |
| 20:57.53 | RST38h | ssvb: Problems killing browserd when it hangs up. Problems losing memory shared between server and clients |
| 20:58.18 | RST38h | ssvb: If not for the current client/server design, these problems would not be there |
| 20:58.18 | Jaffa | RST38h: timelyx makes a valid point there, though: a problem restarting browserd doesn't indicate a fundamental design flaw; it indicates a bug. |
| 20:58.50 | RST38h | Jaffa: fundamental design flaw is a bit different here |
| 20:59.34 | RST38h | Jaffa: Basically, if you have got something as large, resource hungry, and crash prone as a web browser, you do not make it a background process |
| 20:59.42 | ssvb | RST38h: keeping some unreliable part of program in an easily killable/restartable separate process is a design that improves reliability |
| 20:59.45 | Jaffa | Now, I'm not sure *I'd've* designed it like this, or that this is the ideal solution to platform UI specification requirement for <5s load and other things; but it is a way of solving it, and therefore a valid design in that sense. |
| 21:00.08 | RST38h | Jaffa: Not every way or solving it or even a valid design is a viable one |
| 21:00.18 | *** join/#maemo aladds (n=aladds@88-110-192-65.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:00.21 | timelyx | qwerty12_N800: can you try something for me? |
| 21:00.27 | RST38h | ssvb: that is the point - it is not easily killable :) |
| 21:00.35 | qwerty12_N800 | timelyx: sure |
| 21:00.36 | timelyx | on your device, use renice to lower the priority of browserd |
| 21:00.41 | ssvb | RST38h: as I said, it is a separate bug |
| 21:00.44 | RST38h | ssvb: and leaves garbage when killed too |
| 21:00.46 | timelyx | i.e. make it less important than the rest of the system |
| 21:00.52 | Jaffa | RST38h: indeed, but Bugzilla isn't the right place to discuss new and better architectures. |
| 21:01.22 | RST38h | Jaffa: All I am suggesting in a bug report is to review the decision and possibly return to the previous, simpler design |
| 21:01.26 | Jaffa | RST38h: then that's another bug. Even if it was one process, if it left garbage when killed, that'd be a bug - but not an argument for restructuring it from one process to many |
| 21:01.36 | *** join/#maemo borism (n=boris@195-50-204-238-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) |
| 21:01.50 | Jaffa | RST38h: but that's not a trackable, achievable, measurable or specific issue. |
| 21:01.52 | RST38h | Jaffa: if it were only that - yes |
| 21:02.11 | RST38h | Jaffa: But you can see that there are multiple problems stemming from the client/server design |
| 21:02.18 | summatusmentis | are there any sketch programs for maemo? |
| 21:02.23 | Jaffa | RST38h: that's what the mailing lists are for |
| 21:02.36 | Jaffa | RST38h: ...and there were multiple problems stemming from a single process design, AIUI. |
| 21:02.37 | RST38h | It is not that I am against such design, but you do not make the largest, most crash prone part of your system a server :) |
| 21:02.49 | RST38h | Jaffa: Exactly two afaik |
| 21:03.18 | timelyx | summatusmentis: maemopad+ |
| 21:03.25 | timelyx | or the sketch app that ships w/ the tablet |
| 21:03.27 | derf | Geezus, 1.3GB is not enough to install the scratchbox toolchain. |
| 21:03.29 | RST38h | Jaffa: 1) slow startup (client/server reduces it by 2 seconds) and 2) web browser dies when window does (now it dies when server dies) |
| 21:03.29 | timelyx | you could try getting tuxpaint |
| 21:03.35 | Jaffa | A c/s design allows for the option of a browser engine crash to have it restarted with no related UI crash |
| 21:03.40 | derf | What on earth is in that thing? |
| 21:03.41 | summatusmentis | timelyx: oh, ok, thanks :) |
| 21:03.55 | ssvb | RST38h: check http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23582 |
| 21:03.56 | *** join/#maemo pdz- (n=paul@135.14.169.217.in-addr.arpa) |
| 21:03.59 | timelyx | personally on all but my 770 i use sketch from the device |
| 21:04.01 | qwerty12_N800 | timeless: i've done a sudo renice +5 `pidof browserd` |
| 21:04.06 | RST38h | Jaffa: yes, but why would you care for reopnening that window if your browser dies anyway? |
| 21:04.19 | timelyx | on the 770 i use maemopad+ because i used it as a personal device and grabbed more apps |
| 21:04.23 | timelyx | sighs |
| 21:04.25 | ssvb | RST38h: looks like there is a high chance that third-party plugins may be involved (adblock) |
| 21:04.41 | summatusmentis | timelyx: your other tablets you don't use as personal devices/ |
| 21:04.47 | summatusmentis | s///?/ |
| 21:04.49 | *** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@82.132.136.202) |
| 21:04.49 | timelyx | summatusmentis: i work for nokia |
| 21:04.55 | timelyx | i develop the browser for them |
| 21:05.00 | RST38h | ssvb: disabled it. same thing. |
| 21:05.02 | timelyx | so they're basically reflash+test victims |
| 21:05.06 | summatusmentis | oh right, i knew that. |
| 21:05.13 | timelyx | qwerty12_N800: ok, try loading the test cases that have been mentioned |
| 21:05.17 | timelyx | does the device respond better? |
| 21:05.17 | Jaffa | RST38h: Having Firefox recover from a crash without restarting and reopening the tabs would be "better" from a user experience point of view. |
| 21:05.39 | timelyx | Jaffa: fwiw, it's half planned too :) |
| 21:05.56 | Jaffa | timelyx: not going to be demoed next week then? ;-) |
| 21:05.59 | timelyx | no timeline, but the basic plans were being formulated at the mozilla summit :) |
| 21:06.04 | timelyx | Jaffa: sadly not |
| 21:06.13 | Jaffa | cool |
| 21:06.24 | RST38h | Jaffa: yea, but in our case reopening that puny window is a very small part of starting the browser |
| 21:06.33 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@254.84-49-136.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:06.43 | RST38h | Jaffa: Maybe in FireFox, where display interface is more complicated... |
| 21:06.56 | ssvb | RST38h: IMHO this still needs proper investigation, for example check if other people can reproduce the problem without even installing adblock in the first place |
| 21:07.16 | Jaffa | Anything which minimises the exceedingly slow window opening/redraw code on a tablet is fine by me. |
| 21:07.29 | RST38h | ssvb: You have seen that I have been threatened with a ban for reopening this bug |
| 21:08.07 | ssvb | RST38h: you are just behaving a bit rude, it's better to calm up and focus on technical issues only |
| 21:08.25 | RST38h | ssvb: I am stating the facts. See the log. |
| 21:08.46 | RST38h | Jaffa: As I understood things, rendering happens in browserd (which dies) |
| 21:08.50 | mavhc | Jaffa: you should port wimpworks to it |
| 21:08.50 | ssvb | RST38h: you are too fast to judge what is at fault, and your points do not seem valid to me |
| 21:08.56 | RST38h | Jaffa: Opening a window is cheap though |
| 21:09.08 | Jaffa | RST38h: what'd *really* go down well, of course; is a suggestion on maemo-developer for a design which meets the requirements of a fast start-up time and a crash proof UI. Perhaps involving a more staged, componentised system? |
| 21:09.29 | Jaffa | mavhc: oh, blimey - a mavhc. I'd seen you here and my brain's just gone "duh" |
| 21:09.47 | mavhc | :-) |
| 21:10.03 | jott | how about releasing the source code and disable the server part as one wishes :) |
| 21:10.19 | timelyx | jott: you don't want to hear the story about that |
| 21:10.22 | Jaffa | A WimpWorks port seems a little... complex. |
| 21:10.24 | timelyx | can we not go there? |
| 21:10.32 | jott | timelyx: it's not up to you. i know :( |
| 21:12.02 | RST38h | Jaffa: Well, crash proof won't do |
| 21:12.12 | qwerty12_N800 | browserd reniced at +5 is giving problems with that livejournal (no usercontent.css + plugins disabled).. i'll try a renice @ -5 |
| 21:12.29 | RST38h | Jaffa: It is based on FF and FF is resource hungry and NOT crash proof |
| 21:12.45 | crashanddie | Jaffa, I LUVZ YOOOOOOO |
| 21:12.49 | RST38h | Jaffa: So whatever component encapsulates FF's renderer and JS will crash |
| 21:12.57 | *** part/#maemo psykoTRON (n=fwigoJVO@66.244.5.20) |
| 21:13.04 | rm_you | k |
| 21:13.15 | crashanddie | loves it when there's a talk about a "crash" on IRC |
| 21:13.18 | crashanddie | beep, beep, beep |
| 21:13.24 | rm_you | :P |
| 21:13.34 | rm_you | your own fault for adding notify on "crash" |
| 21:13.47 | *** join/#maemo Spaceman-N810 (n=user@63-252-73-208.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 21:13.48 | rm_you | ... i added notify no "rm" >_> which causes no end of beeping on #gentoo and #debian |
| 21:13.52 | RST38h | Jaffa: I would make it configurable (i.e. UI looks for browserd, does not find it, and loads FF DLLs by itself) |
| 21:14.17 | rm_you | s/notify no/notify on/ |
| 21:14.19 | Fatal | timelyx: post 140, very good btw |
| 21:14.24 | Fatal | just finished reading it |
| 21:14.32 | *** part/#maemo Spaceman-N810 (n=user@63-252-73-208.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 21:14.53 | rm_you | alright, may do that |
| 21:14.58 | rm_you | gah wrong window |
| 21:15.22 | RST38h | Jaffa: OR maybe have the main window process act as a server for other windows, dunno |
| 21:16.02 | Jaffa | crashanddie: sorry ;-) |
| 21:17.06 | Jaffa | RST38h: which is similar to how Chrome approaches the problem, I think. I think you'll catch more flies with honey (or however it goes), and I think timelyx is right: Bugzilla isn't really the right place for logging design concerns. |
| 21:17.12 | crashanddie | rm_you, I left #gentoo because of the crash beeping |
| 21:17.19 | ssvb | RST38h: ok, you suggest a major change in design and you are not sure if it will solve the problems, what's the point then? |
| 21:18.12 | ssvb | RST38h: you can have a look at the design of captive (http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/), it was used to provide ntfs read/write support before ntfs3g got developed |
| 21:18.48 | ssvb | RST38h: it had to rely on unreliable closed source binary drivers from windows |
| 21:19.13 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12-N800 (n=faheem@78-105-80-81.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:19.51 | timelyx | qwerty12-N800: yeah sorry, i hate renice because the man / help is awful |
| 21:19.56 | timelyx | can never remember which way to go |
| 21:20.15 | timelyx | Fatal: thanks :) |
| 21:21.22 | Jaffa | timelyx: higher number is "nicer" to everythiing else, i.e. higher number == lower priority. |
| 21:21.28 | Jaffa | always has to think about it |
| 21:21.42 | qwerty12-N800 | timelyx: yeah :), watchdog rebooted my tablet though. probably didn't help that i was untarring a 80mb bz2 at the same time :/. i used htop to do it |
| 21:22.13 | timelyx | heh |
| 21:22.22 | qwerty12-N800 | is used to the windows way of priority thinking which imho is better |
| 21:22.29 | timelyx | qwerty12-N800: anyway, if you can find a way that makes the device happier than default |
| 21:22.34 | timelyx | oh, the windows way is *much* better |
| 21:22.38 | timelyx | bah, unix sucks |
| 21:22.41 | Fatal | timelyx: curiously enough, the one garfield minus garfield strip I've found to describe some of my workdays (saved by my rss2imap thankfully) got deleted, but here, I think you need it: http://stukach.com/deleted_garfield_minus_garfield_2008-09-05.png |
| 21:22.43 | *** join/#maemo inz (i=inz@maemo-hackers.org) |
| 21:22.58 | *** join/#maemo eton_ (n=eton@ppp-58-8-11-252.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 21:22.58 | timelyx | thanks! |
| 21:23.04 | RST38h | Jaffa: I am not interesting in creating a better world. |
| 21:23.12 | RST38h | s/interesting/interested/ |
| 21:24.15 | RST38h | Jaffa: Just making some comments while passing by. |
| 21:25.52 | derf | Okay, it took 2.8 GB to install. |
| 21:26.51 | timelyx | derf: fwiw, i recommend the mozilla.org maemo vm which is at least a 4gb vm |
| 21:27.15 | timelyx | i can't remember how big, but it's a barely reasonable minimum and has a decent default set of stuff |
| 21:27.23 | derf | timelyx: There's now way I can get that much free disk space. |
| 21:27.25 | timelyx | i've actually asked the person who made it to make a bigger vm |
| 21:27.29 | timelyx | derf: what os? |
| 21:27.37 | derf | Gentoo. |
| 21:27.39 | timelyx | ZFS/NTFS support compression |
| 21:27.52 | timelyx | hrm... ebuild install solaris |
| 21:27.59 | derf | I hate Solaris. |
| 21:28.02 | derf | Almost more than Windows. |
| 21:28.43 | timelyx | technically there are a few file systems linux supports that can do compression |
| 21:28.49 | timelyx | i just wouldn't trust any of them ;-) |
| 21:28.54 | derf | Yes, neither would I. |
| 21:29.25 | ssvb | derf: buy a new hard drive? ;) |
| 21:29.37 | derf | ssvb: At some point I will just get a new laptop. |
| 21:29.59 | ssvb | derf: you are using gentoo on laptop? |
| 21:30.07 | derf | This was the largest 2.5 GB drive they sold at the time. |
| 21:30.09 | derf | ssvb: Yes. |
| 21:30.15 | derf | *2.5 inch |
| 21:30.32 | timelyx | how big? |
| 21:30.36 | derf | 100 GB |
| 21:30.37 | *** join/#maemo henrique (n=henrique@unaffiliated/henrique) |
| 21:30.57 | derf | I constantly run with about 100 MB free. |
| 21:31.06 | timelyx | could be worse |
| 21:31.13 | timelyx | my laptop hit <1mb free a few weeks ago |
| 21:31.15 | timelyx | that kinda broke firefox |
| 21:31.21 | derf | Oh, that happens all the time. |
| 21:31.27 | timelyx | because the sqlengine got into a out of disk condition |
| 21:31.27 | derf | I don't use Firefox. |
| 21:31.30 | timelyx | and doesn't reset |
| 21:32.12 | timelyx | shrugs |
| 21:32.17 | timelyx | you can't use wine for google chrome atm |
| 21:32.17 | ssvb | derf: 100GB should be more than enough, probably you just need to find and remove/backup some rarely used crap :) |
| 21:32.22 | timelyx | wine is missing a bunch of things :) |
| 21:32.42 | qwerty12-N800 | doesn't like google chrome |
| 21:32.44 | derf | I don't know what the new toolchain has in it, but it uses 2.1 GB more disk space than the old one. |
| 21:33.16 | derf | ssvb: I do image processing research. |
| 21:33.22 | derf | 100 GB is nowhere near enough. |
| 21:33.27 | ssvb | derf: ouch |
| 21:33.44 | derf | I'd stick a 1 TB drive in here if they made one. |
| 21:33.47 | derf | And I'd still fill it up. |
| 21:34.18 | timelyx | derf: do you really need to do the research locally? |
| 21:34.22 | timelyx | i do all my work remotely |
| 21:35.03 | derf | timelyx: I travel a lot, and internet access is not always plentiful. |
| 21:35.11 | timelyx | :( |
| 21:35.17 | timelyx | firewire external drive? :) |
| 21:35.21 | derf | Plus I like to be able to see the images without sucking them down through a 32kbps straw. |
| 21:36.11 | timelyx | [nsfw] http://timeless.justdave.net/stress/stress.html |
| 21:36.16 | derf | Yeah, I probably should, but I don't trust any of them, and they're a PITA to lug around with everything else. |
| 21:36.32 | timelyx | derf: how small is your straw today? |
| 21:36.55 | mavhc | loves chrome, mostly because I'm the guy with 160 tabs in firefox using 1GB of ram and using procexp to find out that flash thread is using 99% cpu |
| 21:37.01 | derf | I'm actually home today, so 200 K/s down. |
| 21:37.08 | timelyx | derf: try it :) |
| 21:37.11 | lcuk_busy | timelyx, what are you stress testing? your server or loading on device? |
| 21:37.19 | timelyx | lcuk_busy: any device |
| 21:37.24 | timelyx | the server is dream host, it'll deal |
| 21:37.42 | timelyx | lcuk_busy: fwiw, that's killed a bunch of boxes |
| 21:37.51 | timelyx | including some BSDs |
| 21:38.13 | timelyx | some phones, a samsung Q1 (?), ... |
| 21:38.16 | timelyx | it's a fun page |
| 21:38.27 | lcuk_busy | firefox is up at 500mb actual 700 page |
| 21:38.32 | *** join/#maemo croppa (n=stuart@135.27.233.220.exetel.com.au) |
| 21:38.38 | timelyx | firefox these days actually does reasonably well |
| 21:38.44 | timelyx | iirc it actually killed chrome once |
| 21:38.54 | timelyx | was amused by that |
| 21:39.20 | lcuk_busy | that shows something cool |
| 21:39.35 | *** join/#maemo gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) |
| 21:39.37 | *** join/#maemo trev0r (n=t@S01060013f705e7d1.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 21:39.37 | lcuk_busy | now its loaded, at rest at a location firefox is stable at 153mb and 322mb |
| 21:40.15 | timelyx | yeah, it took quite a few years before firefox finally handled it well |
| 21:40.20 | lcuk_busy | when i move it shoots up to 900mb and 1.3gb before settling back down when i stop again |
| 21:40.30 | timelyx | yep |
| 21:40.32 | timelyx | that's expected |
| 21:40.45 | timelyx | from memory n4/ie5 used 885mb to load the page |
| 21:40.45 | lcuk_busy | thats impressive - thats its dynamic caching in effect |
| 21:41.01 | timelyx | the difference between that number and the 1.2g number is the alpha channel |
| 21:41.06 | timelyx | n4/ie5 didn't do alpha |
| 21:41.08 | lcuk_busy | tips his hat to the developer :) |
| 21:41.09 | *** join/#maemo Pavlov (n=pavlov@shell.off.net) |
| 21:41.11 | timelyx | so it was cheaper for them :( |
| 21:42.29 | qwerty12-N800 | ~lart box.net |
| 21:42.29 | infobot | drops a humongous exploding nuke on box.net |
| 21:42.32 | lcuk_busy | i was considering loading the images as a stress test on the device |
| 21:42.37 | lcuk_busy | until i noticed how many there were |
| 21:42.49 | timelyx | iirc there's an ostress.html and mstress.html |
| 21:42.59 | timelyx | they're smaller versions |
| 21:43.06 | timelyx | fwiw microb does fairly well |
| 21:43.11 | timelyx | or at least did the last time we tried |
| 21:43.13 | qwerty12-N800 | i loaded the link because it said nsfw |
| 21:43.22 | timelyx | heh |
| 21:43.23 | lcuk_busy | lol |
| 21:43.37 | lcuk_busy | it crashed ff when i reran it |
| 21:44.02 | Pavlov | hey, i'm trying to get oprofile setup on my n810 -- looking at http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/diablo/oprofile/ -- two questions: is it possible to install the kernel on the device with this flasher tool, or do i need to do it from my desktop, and either way, where do i get the tool? |
| 21:44.29 | timelyx | Pavlov: google for flasher should find it |
| 21:44.40 | summatusmentis | does anyone else run into issues when running a browser and pidgin? Like, lots of lag, sometimes the browser not loading things because of low memory, etc. |
| 21:44.41 | timelyx | there are plenty of wiki pages for that |
| 21:44.50 | derf | Hey, Copenhagen! |
| 21:44.52 | derf | I've been there. |
| 21:44.53 | qwerty12-N800 | Pavlov: you can flash the kernel from the device itself |
| 21:45.04 | timelyx | maemo.org/maemowiki/HOWTO_FlashLatestNokiaImageWithLinux |
| 21:45.31 | Pavlov | Page "HOWTO_FlashLatestNokiaImageWithLinux" not found in wiki Wiki. |
| 21:45.32 | timelyx | derf: where did you see copenhagen? |
| 21:45.40 | derf | timelyx: The mermaid. |
| 21:45.51 | timelyx | Pavlov: gah, i hate our wiki reorgs, one sec |
| 21:45.51 | derf | I mean, I've been to that exact spot. |
| 21:46.21 | timelyx | derf: i haven't loaded stress in perhaps a year, direct url? :) |
| 21:46.29 | timelyx | Jaffa, is http://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page dead??! |
| 21:46.58 | derf | http://timeless.justdave.net/stress/DanMac8Nautisk1024x768.jpg |
| 21:47.02 | timelyx | Pavlov: google cache would work ... |
| 21:47.06 | crashanddie | https://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page |
| 21:47.17 | crashanddie | timelyx, https works |
| 21:47.19 | RST38h | all right, input cues show up with fb0, sleep time |
| 21:47.26 | timelyx | wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware ? |
| 21:47.44 | timelyx | Pavlov: that link should work... |
| 21:47.55 | qwerty12-N800 | crashanddie: did you get the kismet stuff sorted? |
| 21:48.07 | crashanddie | qwerty12-N800, yup |
| 21:48.09 | crashanddie | qwerty12-N800, thanks |
| 21:48.11 | *** join/#maemo lindever__ (n=eton@ppp-58-8-11-252.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 21:48.23 | timelyx | derf: hrm, i'll have to go there and see it |
| 21:48.32 | timelyx | it's sad, but i can't recall the picture |
| 21:48.38 | crashanddie | Pavlov, does RantPavlov ring a bell? |
| 21:48.39 | timelyx | i thought i'd kinda memorized all of them |
| 21:49.12 | Pavlov | timelyx: hrm, none of these seem to say how to flash a new kernel on the device itself |
| 21:49.30 | timelyx | Pavlov: that's a new thing |
| 21:49.36 | timelyx | but that page *should* mention it :) |
| 21:49.46 | timelyx | anyway that page does have the link to get flasher |
| 21:49.49 | qwerty12-N800 | Pavlov: running diablo? |
| 21:49.52 | timelyx | and instructions for via usb |
| 21:50.00 | timelyx | he better be :) |
| 21:50.09 | Pavlov | qwerty12-N800: yeah, i had this all working before i upgraded ;p |
| 21:50.17 | derf | So, seamonkey is cheating. |
| 21:50.27 | derf | It's using 230 M, but X is using 1.3 GB. |
| 21:50.30 | *** join/#maemo bef0rd (n=befr0d@190.68.5.103) |
| 21:50.34 | qwerty12-N800 | Pavlov: sudo fiasco-flasher -f -k ;) |
| 21:50.41 | Pavlov | sweet |
| 21:50.49 | Pavlov | timelyx: yeah, i just can't find my usb cable |
| 21:50.57 | timelyx | derf: btw Pavlov's the guy who did most of that work |
| 21:51.02 | timelyx | so that hat tip is to him :) |
| 21:51.10 | Pavlov | which work? |
| 21:51.32 | timelyx | making http://timeless.justdave.net/stress/stress.html use reasonable amounts of ram :) |
| 21:51.46 | Pavlov | oh |
| 21:51.46 | Pavlov | heh |
| 21:52.07 | *** join/#maemo eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-11-252.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 21:52.08 | timelyx | qwerty12-N800: fix the wiki ;-) |
| 21:52.13 | Pavlov | still a little excessive |
| 21:52.47 | qwerty12-N800 | timelyx: I'm on a tablet + i'm tired + my wiki knowledge sucks :p |
| 21:53.04 | timelyx | Pavlov: more fixes welcome ;-) |
| 21:53.21 | Pavlov | yeah |
| 21:53.24 | timelyx | qwerty12-N800: alright, find a partner, maybe derf or crashanddie :) |
| 21:53.31 | Pavlov | got a few things up my sleaves |
| 21:53.37 | crashanddie | wait, what? |
| 21:53.39 | Pavlov | sleeves too |
| 21:53.47 | crashanddie | qwerty12-N800 can't be my partner |
| 21:53.52 | qwerty12-N800 | + I'm also dreaming up the perfect configure line to compile net-snnp for mips |
| 21:53.52 | crashanddie | he's under age, I'd end up in prison |
| 21:53.57 | qwerty12-N800 | lmao |
| 21:54.23 | timelyx | crashanddie: i had that experience dancing one day in San Francisco |
| 21:54.30 | timelyx | amusing story, but i don't think i'll archive it here |
| 21:54.34 | timelyx | ask me @summit ;-) |
| 21:55.09 | qwerty12-N800 | crashanddie: psst, ask timelyx and tell me and i'll post it everywhere |
| 21:55.25 | crashanddie | qwerty12-N800, i'm not going to the summit |
| 21:55.55 | *** join/#maemo jonek (n=jonek@p54A30A13.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:57.02 | jonek | hi, where can I find 'pand' on the N810 with diablo? it doesn't seem to be included in bluez-utils anymore... where is it gone? |
| 21:57.47 | qwerty12-N800 | had wished that someone would have put subversion in diablo extras by now... i may get off my ass and do it soon :/ |
| 21:58.13 | qwerty12-N800 | jonek: bluez-utils-test |
| 21:59.40 | crashanddie | timelyx, what do you want me to do? |
| 22:00.15 | timelyx | explain how to use fiasco-flasher from the tablet in the flashing article on wiki.maemo.org |
| 22:00.42 | Pavlov | ok |
| 22:00.47 | jonek | qwerty12-N800: thx - which repository do I have to include to get it? |
| 22:00.47 | Pavlov | i thikn i am oprofile enabled |
| 22:01.25 | derf | Which sb devkits do I need for maemo again? |
| 22:02.04 | qwerty12-N800 | jonek: sorry but i'm too tired to dig up the info, deb is here though; http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/b/bluez-utils/ |
| 22:02.30 | jonek | qwerty12-N800: thx |
| 22:03.07 | timelyx | that should be the normal diablo system repo.. |
| 22:03.40 | *** join/#maemo dholbert (n=dholbert@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
| 22:03.55 | crashanddie | timelyx, I have no idea how to do that :P |
| 22:04.02 | timelyx | qwerty12-N800 seems to |
| 22:04.07 | timelyx | get him to explain :) |
| 22:07.23 | qwerty12-N800 | oh, it's easy :). add a pointer to the root access page that is on the wiki and run sudo gainroot and fiasco-flasher -f -k <kernel zImage> to flash a kernel. to flash an initfs is the same except you fiasco-flasher -R -f -k <initfs jffs2 image> |
| 22:07.46 | qwerty12-N800 | *fiasco-flasher -R -f -i <initfs jffs2 image> |
| 22:09.18 | *** join/#maemo uncorq (n=MI5@70.195.8.67.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 22:10.01 | Stskeeps | watches his armel qemu install debian.. |
| 22:10.02 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 22:13.47 | derf | So, anyway, I can't get anything to actually run with that toolchain. |
| 22:14.51 | derf | ./qrreader: error while loading shared libraries: libpng12.so.0: cannot enable executable stack as shared object requires: Invalid argument |
| 22:14.56 | derf | This is me giving up again. |
| 22:15.06 | derf | I should have just given up in the first place. |
| 22:15.09 | timelyx | oh |
| 22:15.13 | timelyx | that sounds familiar |
| 22:15.21 | timelyx | iirc it means your linux kernel is configured broken |
| 22:15.47 | timelyx | please don't ask me to try to remember the specific flag which results in totally unusable scratchboxes |
| 22:15.48 | timelyx | but iirc it's googlable |
| 22:16.03 | derf | Works just fine with the 2005 toolchain. |
| 22:16.18 | derf | I do remember having to flip a kernel option to get sb working initially. |
| 22:16.41 | derf | But I think I'm beyond the point of caring enough to mess around with compiling new kernels. |
| 22:17.31 | timelyx | nah |
| 22:17.36 | timelyx | no recompile required |
| 22:17.49 | timelyx | it's something twiddable in /proc |
| 22:21.56 | derf | Google suggests /proc/sys/kernel/exec-shield, but I don't have that. |
| 22:21.57 | ssvb | derf: you need an updated cputransparency package with a new qemu |
| 22:23.11 | ssvb | derf: at least that's what I needed to run executables built with a new toochain in scratchbox |
| 22:23.58 | derf | Is that going to need another 2 GB in disk space? |
| 22:24.12 | derf | Because I haven't got it. |
| 22:24.22 | timelyx | it shouldn't |
| 22:24.40 | derf | I wouldn't have thought a dev toolchain would, either. |
| 22:24.55 | timelyx | gcc? |
| 22:24.59 | timelyx | shrugs |
| 22:25.02 | timelyx | it's basically a full os :) |
| 22:25.07 | timelyx | glibc on up |
| 22:25.18 | timelyx | otoh, i'm still curious as to what was eating the space :) |
| 22:25.24 | timelyx | get a visualizer and ask it :) |
| 22:25.32 | derf | I'm pretty sure Gentoo's full toolchain is nowhere near that large. |
| 22:27.09 | ssvb | derf: gentoo's minimal installation is also pretty large |
| 22:27.36 | derf | Sure, but I don't need a whole system. |
| 22:27.44 | derf | I just need a compiler. |
| 22:28.13 | ssvb | derf: have you tried crossdev in gentoo by the way? |
| 22:28.39 | derf | Maybe? |
| 22:28.50 | derf | I think I used that for mingw32 compiling. |
| 22:28.56 | derf | But maybe I used something else. |
| 22:29.05 | ssvb | it can be also used for ARM |
| 22:29.17 | derf | Anyway... qemu-arm-cvs-m? |
| 22:29.21 | derf | That seems to be the only new option. |
| 22:29.25 | ssvb | yes |
| 22:29.57 | derf | And now my code works. |
| 22:31.58 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@78-105-80-81.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:32.05 | *** join/#maemo lopz (n=gentoo-d@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 22:32.28 | derf | Lots of fun messages from the assembler like |
| 22:32.29 | derf | {standard input}:20032: rdhi, rdlo and rm must all be different |
| 22:32.36 | derf | But since it works I'll assume they're harmless. |
| 22:34.05 | ssvb | derf: http://sourceware.org/ml/binutils/2007-11/msg00046.html |
| 22:34.37 | ssvb | it's a harmless warning for ARMv6 |
| 22:36.27 | ssvb | gas is too pedantic here, reporting a problem that is not relevant for ARMv6 |
| 22:38.27 | jonek | I am running a pan bluetooth connection between my N810 and my PC but dns doesn't work although I followed the dnsmasq instructions on http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto-bluetoothnetworking. I can ping my nameserver's IP and nslookup a.host.de <DNS IP> works fine in xterm. but a nslookup a.host.de doesn't work - what is the problem? |
| 22:41.10 | ssvb | derf: btw, any plans for ARM optimizations for theora? |
| 22:41.31 | derf | ssvb: Yes. As soon as I learn ARM asm. |
| 22:43.36 | ssvb | derf: ok, I see, I just thought about looking at improving ffmpeg theora decoder |
| 22:44.03 | derf | ssvb: Making it work would be nice. |
| 22:44.04 | ssvb | as it is going to be used for video on web, it might make sense to give it a hand |
| 22:44.24 | ssvb | i'm sick of flash :) |
| 22:44.47 | derf | ssvb: There's still work that could be done on the C portions of libtheoradec, if you're bored. |
| 22:46.50 | ssvb | I like LGPL license a bit better :) |
| 22:47.15 | derf | Even RMS approves of us using BSD. |
| 22:48.54 | towo | Which seriously is not a strong argument at all. |
| 22:51.34 | timelyx | lcuk_busy fwiw http://www.squarefree.com/2007/09/20/firefox-memory-usage-and-memory-leak-news/ talks about the memory behavior, it wasn't all pavlov |
| 22:54.31 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=kvirc@254.84-49-136.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:55.02 | crashanddie | w00t, I have 7 karma points :D |
| 22:56.39 | Proteous | removes all 7 of crashanddie's points for bragging |
| 23:00.13 | crashanddie | hangs on to them |
| 23:00.19 | Proteous | heh |
| 23:01.45 | derf | lardman|gone: QR code decoding committed. |
| 23:14.08 | *** part/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@78-105-80-81.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
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