IRC log for #maemo on 20080905

00:04.27*** join/#maemo dholbert (n=dholbert@adsl-99-175-102-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
00:10.04ccookeThere really isn't any other option but the default app for RSS reading, is there?
00:11.09Pebbystupid question about .deb packaging for libraries... I'm spitting out .deb files, but the data.tar.gz file only contains a bunch of /usr/share/doc/ files - any ideas on what I'm doing wrong?
00:12.13ccookePebby: what are you using to create the deb?
00:13.34Pebbyfollowing instructions at http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-0-x/creating_a_debian_package.html - using dh_make and dpkg-buildpackage
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00:29.06Edgesterhow do I check my karma on maemo.org?
00:30.15GeneralAntilleshttp://maemo.org/profile/
00:33.49Chaniccooke: I'm hoping to get akregator on there but I've no idea how much effort that'll take
00:34.11Chanialthough... who knows, maybe there's alreayy a package for it
00:38.40EdgesterGeneralAntilles: Thanks! now I'm bummed. No karma. I guess two or three releases of openafs on maemo extras doesn't count :(
00:39.03MekChani: I get the hint, I'll start packaging kdepim :P
00:39.55Chani:)
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00:40.28ChaniMek: seriously, kdepim could be a really good thing to have on there. probably with ui tweaks, but...
00:40.53Mekyeah, I agree; pim is probably one of the main functions you'd use such a device
00:41.06Chanimail, twitter and IM are 90% of what I use that thing for, and I keep wishing I had akregator and my irc connection on it
00:41.24GeneralAntillesXChat is available. . . .
00:41.28Chaniwhen I'm wandering around campus it's great being able to chat. better thn a phone :)
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00:41.57ChaniGeneralAntilles: I have irssi running in a screen session. backscroll matters to me, especially with hte frequent disconnects on campus
00:42.09Chaniso really I just need to install ssh asap
00:42.29Chanior I could find out if quassel runs on this thing ):
00:42.30Chani:)
00:42.31GeneralAntillesIt's right in Extras.
00:43.19Chaniok, this thing is probably charged enough to flash... I really really wish it had an indication of how charged it is
00:43.59GeneralAntillesJust plug the power back in once it starts flashing.
00:44.22Chanibut that would make sense! ;)
00:49.36Chanihuh, the wallpaper makes me think of kde...
00:56.24Chanioh neat, mmc2 wasn't overwritten
00:57.09GeneralAntillesWhy would it be?
00:57.19GeneralAntillesFlashing only touches the internal NAND
00:57.39evaryontIs it possible to watch .mov or .mp4 videos on the n800?
00:59.08evaryontwhen I do, in canola, Meida Player, mplayer or mediabox, it's choppy, though the audio progresses alright
00:59.08evaryontactually, in .mov files, the video stalls & scrambles after the first few frames, though, again, the audio is fine
00:59.13GeneralAntillesmp4 implies h.264
00:59.18GeneralAntillesWhich is just a touch heavy for the tablets.
00:59.31GeneralAntilles.mov can be a variety of things, but generally those things are bad.
00:59.49GeneralAntillesStick to .avi with XviD video and MP3 audio at no more than 44.1
01:00.01evaryontdarn. the mp4s are from Youtube - I'm guessing those are h.264 since it wants to push HQ vids
01:00.15GeneralAntillesCanola has a YouTube plugin
01:00.20evaryontalright, got the magical one liner mencoder call that'll sort everything out for me? :)
01:00.20GeneralAntillesYou can access YouTube stuff directly.
01:00.30evaryontya, but those are .flv :/
01:01.00GeneralAntilleshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Video_encoding
01:01.14evaryontty
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01:24.13RST38hmplayer will play flv
01:24.17RST38hno problem there
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01:30.04gregoroviusdoes the lack of software updates have anything to do with the upcoming maemo summit?
01:30.30*** join/#maemo chmac (n=chmac@115.129.9.18)
01:30.31gregoroviusor it's just everyone in the community suddenly got super-lazy?
01:31.23GeneralAntillesSome people have big things planned for the Summit.
01:31.31GeneralAntillesPeople get more and less busy as the year progresses.
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01:38.13gregoroviusi hope to see some good things released, but the lack of regular updates is awkward... I run arch linux, if a day goes without updated packages, something's wrong
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01:43.30GeneralAntillesThere's a helluva lot more packages in Arch
01:43.54RST38h<PROTECTED>
01:44.11RST38h[overheard from TV]
01:45.24RST38hgregorovius: a lot of people take vacations in August and September is the beginning of school year for the students
01:45.57gregoroviusah, the northern hemisphere
01:46.03gregoroviusI didn't think about that
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01:52.40dystopiaeternal september:-)
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02:07.34RST38hTransmission got updated! Who said there are no updates? =)
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02:10.29n800mhere's the coolest disclaimer ever
02:10.31n800mNote: SEO (Search Engine Optimization) results are of fictional nature, the results below are for SE optimized site listing only. There is a however a good chance that in the future this particular search term will yield results for this download. Search Engine Optimization is common practice amongst websites of this nature.
02:10.48elekttickles
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02:34.57RST38hMcCain is skipping a little bit, has somebody scratched CD before inserting it into him?
02:37.16Chaniwhy are there under a dozen applications in the n810's package manager? am I going to have to edit the sources.list manually?
02:37.28Chanimost importatntly, how do I get ssh onto it?
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02:37.45GeneralAntilles~extras
02:37.45infobotextras is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras
02:38.02RST38hChani: Some of your repositories are disabled or missing
02:38.49GeneralAntillesEither follow the manual instructions or open the .install on that page on the N810.
02:38.52Chanihmm. I keep forgetting these apps have a menu
02:42.12mgedminhttp://scienceblogs.com/neurotopia/worst mccain photo.jpg
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02:45.49RST38h"We will drill 'em now!"
02:45.57RST38hIs this guy a dentist? =)
02:46.21gregoroviusRST38h: what are you watching?
02:46.39RST38hgregoro: a TV downstairs is showing McCain's speech
02:47.53dystopiahe's a drilling machine from the matrix
02:48.43gregoroviuscnn is broadcasting it here as well
02:49.05RST38hhe is a patient from an insane azylum
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02:50.40gregoroviuswell
02:50.57gregoroviusat least he seems to be able to speak coherently
02:51.18gregoroviusunlike some other prez
02:51.28RST38hwell, he is skipping a little bit
02:51.40Chaniis there a package for ssh-agent?
02:51.44RST38hno
02:51.54RST38hbut there are packages for ssh client and server
02:51.59Chanidarn. I get disconnected a lot at school and my passphrase is looong
02:52.46Chanimaybe I should just make another key with a shorter passphrase. or maybe I should figure out how to make a package for ssh-agent
02:54.05gregoroviusare people cheering for 'war scars'?
02:55.42Chani<PROTECTED>
02:55.49Chanibut yaaaay! ssh!
02:55.52GeneralAntillesChani, lussh?
02:56.14Chaniso can i shrink the text size of this xterm?
02:56.30GeneralAntillesThe giant +/- buttons on top. . . .
02:56.34Chanii only get 9 lines of chat :)
02:57.05Chanioh. cool. i keep forgetting there are buttons behind the screen
02:58.14Chanioh crud. no alt key
02:58.32RST38hhehe
02:58.40Chanihow do you guys get around that?
02:58.49RST38hget an external kbd
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02:59.09Chanino, i'm usually wandering around campus
02:59.24RST38hwhat do you need alt for anyway?
02:59.24Chanikinda ruins the portability ;)
02:59.33RST38hget Nokia E70 :)
02:59.43Chaniin irssi, for switching windows easily
02:59.50Chanihuh?
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03:00.06RST38hok, instead of irssi use xchat
03:00.11Chanino.
03:00.17RST38hand instead of n8x0 use e70 :)
03:00.30gregoroviusyou can probably bind that action to another key
03:00.32RST38hno? then suffer you will!
03:00.45Chanithere are reasons i'm using irssi
03:01.20Chaniand i dunno what an e70 is but i assume i can't afford it
03:01.50RST38hgoogle.
03:02.02Chanigregorovius: there's a terrible lack of keys to choose from, though
03:02.18ChaniRST38h: laziness.
03:02.18RST38hEnlist in our armed forces!
03:02.27RST38humgh.
03:03.08RST38hChani: basically, either use XChat or suffer
03:03.33RST38hChani: There is a MENU key at the left-bottom corner of the keyboard, so you can use that for ALT, but in the end you will still suffer
03:03.35GeneralAntillesYou can bind an alt
03:05.02Chanimaybe i'll bind the extra shift to alt someday
03:05.16derfChani: Esc, then the window number.
03:05.46RST38hESC is the back-arrow key at the left of your screen
03:06.04derfUsing X-Chat _is_ suffering.
03:06.11RST38hit's ok
03:06.17RST38hnot perfect but few things are
03:06.44Chaniderf: thanks
03:06.59derfAdmittedly, I haven't used it since 2002, but back then it was pretty bad.
03:07.15Chanihrm. this white bg makes yellow text evil
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03:07.37RST38hhttp://josephhall.org/nqb2/media/cthulhu08.jpg
03:08.00elekthahaha
03:08.04gregoroviushahaha
03:08.05RST38hChani: [sadistically] XChat has configurable bg color ;)
03:08.10gregorovius^^
03:08.29elektthat's my new avatar
03:08.32elektand my first ever
03:10.44gregoroviusosso-software-version-rx34: Depends: kernel-diablo-flasher (= 2.6.21-200829maemo1) but 2.6.21-200823maemo3 is to be installed
03:10.47gregoroviushuh?
03:10.51gregoroviusnot again
03:10.52RST38hthat's right
03:11.17gregoroviusnow apt doesn't let me get anything
03:11.26GeneralAntillesHave you been screwing with repositories?
03:11.38GeneralAntillesAlternatively: How'd you get to 30-2?
03:11.56gregoroviusI have a kernel with rotation, might that be it?
03:12.04RST38hunlikely
03:12.15GeneralAntillesShouldn't be.
03:12.36gregoroviusI don't have many repos
03:12.48gregoroviusI just enabled chinook extras to get a package from there
03:13.53gregoroviusI only have the sliderotate repo, kulve's and a tiny one for pidgin led plugin
03:14.03gregorovius(and the 4 stock ones, ofc)
03:17.21gregoroviusany ideas?
03:17.37RST38hthinking
03:19.26RST38hok, could you check what repositories osso-software-version-rx34 and kernel-diablo-flasher are coming from?
03:19.52RST38hyou may want to disable repo that has  2.6.21-200823maemo3 so that the older  2.6.21-200823maemo1 pops up instead
03:19.52gregoroviushow could I?
03:19.59RST38hmmm...a moment
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03:22.08RST38hapt-cache with some option should do it
03:24.40gregoroviusI can't see any, and I'm not sure actually if dpkg knows where each package comes from
03:25.08RST38hthis data should be somewhere
03:30.05ToyKeeperCan I just add debian/armel feeds to my apt sources and install stuff on top of diablo?  Or is that likely to break everything?
03:30.35ToyKeeperIt'd' be nice to have a few things I don't see in maemo-specific feeds, like xchat.
03:30.52RST38hyou can find maemo xchat using google
03:30.53GeneralAntillesXChat is available. . . .
03:30.58GeneralAntillesIt's in Extras-devel
03:31.00GeneralAntilles~extras
03:31.01infobotmethinks extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras
03:31.14RST38hOr http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/maemo-xchat/
03:31.36ToyKeeperAh, thanks.
03:31.57RST38hsorry, it is an os2007 version
03:32.04RST38hget os2008 one form extras-devel ans GA says
03:32.07ToyKeeperThat was just an example, though apparently a bad one.  Is it insane to add debian/armel feeds?
03:32.41RST38hnot insane but no guarantees this stuff will work
03:33.25RST38hthe lib versions these apps depend off may be completely different from maemo ones
03:34.07GeneralAntilles90% of the stuff wont work.
03:34.16GeneralAntillesYou can compile source packages fairly easily.
03:34.22GeneralAntillesBut the binaries generally wont work.
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03:34.47elektbinaries are so 2007
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03:40.06gregoroviusPackage: kernel-diablo-flasher; Version: 2.6.21-200823maemo3;  This here is the latest diablo kernel compiled in DIABLO_ARMEL with the rotation stuff applied by qwerty12.
03:40.14gregoroviusit IS sliderotate's fault
03:40.37GeneralAntillesThat guy makes some crappy packages. . . .
03:41.03gregoroviusis there an alternative kernel I can get somewhere?
03:41.32gregoroviusthat's why I'm not getting updates, apt-get update fails with that error
03:42.17RST38hone more reason to have this stuff as part of the OFFICIAL kernel
03:44.20GeneralAntillesIt actually wouldn't be an issue if Nokia weren't being such a hooker about updating the sources.
03:44.38GeneralAntillesqwerty12 would've updated the kernel package within 24 hours of 30-2 being out and all would be well.
03:44.59RST38hguess it is not the top priority for Nokia =(
03:46.52RST38halso, relying on qwerty12 to update a package every time Nokia sneezes is expecting too much from qwerty. He is human, not a script
03:47.52gregoroviushe ought to be scripted one of this days
03:49.36elektsliderotate was the biggest mistake i installed
03:50.34elekt:<
03:51.23gregoroviusI just reflashed the old kernel
03:51.25gregoroviusfor the 2nd time
03:52.32gregoroviusnot gonna happen again
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03:53.43GeneralAntillesHehe, booting Maemo on the Beagle aint goin' so well.
03:54.03GeneralAntillesWonder if I could flash an initfs image onto the Beagle NAND. . . .
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03:56.08rob2087can anyone recommend an osx like launcher?
03:56.26GeneralAntillesOS X has a launcher?
03:56.29GeneralAntillesDo you mean Dock?
03:56.32GeneralAntillesOr Quicksilver?
03:56.54rob2087yes, a dock for maemo
03:57.09GeneralAntillesPersonal Launch
03:57.13RST38hrob2087: Personal Launcher
03:57.13GeneralAntillesShould be in Extras by now
03:57.18GeneralAntillesmaybe Extra-devel
03:57.38RST38hSomething is telling me Maemo won't boot on the beagle as is
03:57.48rob2087cool, thanks guys, I will check it out
03:57.50GeneralAntillesToo many hardware checks
03:57.51RST38hDifferent SoC ==> different initialization sequence
03:58.35GeneralAntillesI have to figure out who took the pictures of it running on a Beagle and ask them how they did it.
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03:59.50dystopiaare kernel sources that important? can grab the config from /proc
04:00.54GeneralAntillesWhen you're compiling custom kernels and you want to keep up-to-date with Nokia's latest, then, yeah, kernel sources are important.
04:01.44dystopiaand there are so many kernel patches
04:02.00dystopiawhy dont they just run some kind of GIT tree
04:07.27ToyKeeperwoots for xchat!  It's much nicer than pidgin-irc...
04:08.26RST38hushare vs mediatomb vs gmediaserver
04:08.33RST38hany opinions?
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04:33.42_ken_I'm reading the Wikipedia page on Maemo and it states that "Despite being based on Linux and open source software in general, some parts of the Maemo remain closed source. Particularly the Wifi drivers, which contain a binary blob, and some user-space software, like certain statusbar and taskbar applets (including the display brightness applet) and applications.[citation needed]"
04:33.49_ken_Is this actually true?
04:34.10GeneralAntillesYes.
04:34.51_ken_so only the wifi drivers and some userspace apps?
04:35.13gregoroviusI learnt that post-purchase
04:35.29Stskeeps_ken_: in effect it doesnt matter too much except we're stuck with 2.6.21ish
04:35.35GeneralAntillesMostly
04:36.35StskeepsGeneralAntilles: and i don't know what to guess (your message as of 5 hours ago when i was asleep :P)
04:37.40_ken_GeneralAntilles: is there anything else part from the wifi drivers and those apps - any other surprises?
04:37.50GeneralAntillesSome libraries
04:38.14GeneralAntillesJeebus that took forever to load
04:38.17GeneralAntillesStskeeps, http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/2829356428/
04:38.19GeneralAntillesIt boots. ;)
04:38.49StskeepsGeneralAntilles: scary ;)
04:39.13_ken_GeneralAntilles: not proprietary libc I hope :-)
04:39.15Stskeepshost mode should be a matter of correct kernel + modules
04:39.17johnx_ken_, to name the most important closed source code, IMHO: browser ui, media player, some dsp tasks
04:39.40GeneralAntillesalarmd
04:39.40GeneralAntillesThere's a list on the wiki now, I think.
04:39.46GeneralAntilleswonders what the hell is up with his internet.
04:39.52Stskeepsand DSME/BME
04:40.22Stskeepsbut they're not that relevant cos dsme protocol has been mostly documented and hald-addon-bme is a solid drop in package
04:41.25johnxah, the battery charging code will be potentially troublesome to some degree...
04:41.39GeneralAntilles_ken_, https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Components_and_packages
04:42.13Stskeepsjohnx: i haven't really run into a situation where i needed to do something actively to make it charge though
04:43.14johnxStskeeps, well that's cause you're still running bme right?
04:43.40Stskeepsjohnx: i didn't have hald-addon-bme initially and i believe it charged
04:43.50Stskeepsjust didnt report when it was done and stuff
04:44.10johnxyeah, I just mean the actual thing that runs out of initfs
04:44.13Stskeepsah
04:44.16Stskeepstrue
04:44.25Stskeepsoh, i didn't know fedora core was ported to armel
04:44.36Stskeepsthat's interesting because of moblin 2.0
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05:05.28_ken_GeneralAntilles: I'd found it too.  thanks so much
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05:06.32_ken_this https://garage.maemo.org/docman/view.php/106/354/maemopackages-20080725.ods seems to contain more details, although it does not mention the reasons for keeping those packages closed
05:06.47GeneralAntillesNo, that's coming later.
05:07.30GeneralAntillesBut, basically, most of it can be summed up by "competitive advantage", Nokia IP, or just straight laziness.
05:07.40_ken_yes, that's mentioned in these pages http://wiki.maemo.org/MAG:Templates , http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Mapping_openness
05:08.40GeneralAntillesUI stuff can be chalked up to stupid management thinking that it gives them an advantage over competition.
05:09.24GeneralAntillesWhich is why I'm out to have every single piece of closed Nokia UI code replaced with better, faster, strong open source code. ;)
05:09.35GeneralAntilless/strong/stronger/
05:10.32_ken_I've also come across this bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1584  It would be great to see it closed :-)
05:11.38Stskeepsi can't take a bug report seriously that cites the DFSG
05:11.39Stskeeps:P
05:12.58GeneralAntilles_ken_, I think Nokia is moving in the right direction
05:13.09GeneralAntillesThey're certainly more open than they were 3 years ago.
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05:13.26GeneralAntillesThere's a lot of corporate inertia moving in the wrong direction to overcome, though.
05:13.40_ken_GeneralAntilles: yes, it seems so to me - that's why I've become interested in this
05:16.42johnxthat mini note from HiVision looks kind of interesting
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05:21.02GeneralAntillesWoo, China.
05:21.08GeneralAntillesIt's made entirely out of lead and cadmium
05:21.13johnxoh totally
05:21.16johnxthat's the best part
05:21.33johnxI haven't had a chance to play with much MIPS stuff though...
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05:23.11johnxalso, bloggers that don't know anything about linux and non-x86 platforms are hi-larious
05:23.19GeneralAntillesHehe
05:26.18GeneralAntilles"Would be just the thing for running Google's new Chrome browser — that is, if the Chrome browser supported Linux."
05:26.19GeneralAntillesHa
05:26.28GeneralAntillesOr MIPS, even. . . .
05:26.47johnxI really hope they don't do another "port" with libwine...
05:27.26GeneralAntillesChrome is so much hype
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05:27.40GeneralAntillesI like how it's managing to jump into completely unrelated stories.
05:27.44johnxshrugs
05:27.46johnxI'm hearing nice things about it
05:28.06GeneralAntillesjust wonders how much money Google is pumping into the "blogosphere" :P
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05:28.34johnxs/about it/about it, from people I know aren't getting google money/
05:29.43Khertan_n810Hi !
05:31.00johnxGeneralAntilles, anyways, google doesn't need to pay off people to hype its products. Anything they touch immediately gets hyped almost as much as an apple product...
05:31.23johnxhey Khertan_n810. How's coding going?
05:32.05Khertan_n810hum ... too slowly
05:34.40Khertan_n810but mCalendar will be ready for the summit
05:34.48johnxw00!
05:35.14Khertan_n810and i hope mContacts have a first release
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06:12.50Khertan_n810GtkWarning: gtk_widget_size_allocate(): attempt to allocate widget with width 750 and height -9
06:13.11Khertan_n810someone have an idea where this warning come from ?
06:13.25Khertan_n810i ven t any widget sized to -9
06:14.43Khertan_n810does -9 mean something like -1 mean autoresize ?
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06:15.30ToyKeeperMaybe the parent widget is too small, and it tried to resize a child widget to a negative value.
06:15.50Khertan_n810other thing i set on  glade that a gtk button can t get focus but this property widget doesn t seems to work on maemo
06:16.36Khertan_n810ToyKeeper : it the only explanation that i ve found too ... but i can t find which widget is
06:17.25ToyKeeperGlade is a neat tool for prototyping UIs.  But the UI should generally be converted to regular code before release.
06:18.13Khertan_n810ToyKeeper ... hum right for a c programm
06:18.35Khertan_n810but it s not recommended to do this in python
06:19.14melmothrandom post but may be related http://osdir.com/ml/gnome.gtk+.perl/2003-12/msg00116.html
06:20.54Khertan_n810thx
06:21.20Khertan_n810but found which widget generate this warning isn t easy
06:26.16moontigerKhertan_n810, hi :)  i do my ui in code fyi
06:26.23moontigernot saying its the best but it works
06:26.40Khertan_n810yep it work
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06:26.57Khertan_n810but doing it in glade optimize things
06:27.02moontigerreally?
06:27.23Khertan_n810as code is managing by a c compiled lib
06:27.33Khertan_n810there isn t many ndifferences
06:27.59Khertan_n810but there is :)
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06:39.43dnearyhi all
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06:48.36moontigerKhertan_n810, i will investigate ... thnx :)
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07:53.20mikkov_How do I launch browser from command line?
07:54.48GeneralAntillesbrowser
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07:57.05KhertanHi !
07:57.19Stskeepsmorning
07:57.26KhertanThere is only few candidate for the Maemo Council
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07:58.06KhertanFrom what i understand only few people can vote, and will receive a mail ...
07:58.07GeneralAntillesYeah, not many people decided to run. :\
07:58.15GeneralAntillesLots of people can vote
07:58.22GeneralAntillesEverybody with a maemo.org account more than 3 months old.
07:58.26KhertanGeneralAntilles: i ll like ... but i haven't enough time
07:58.36GeneralAntillesWe've got 7 candidates.
07:58.41GeneralAntillesWhich is more than 5, anyway.
07:58.59KhertanGeneralAntilles: lol i see only 4 ...
07:59.07GeneralAntillesWhere, exactly, are you looking? :)
07:59.21Khertanhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_Council/Candidate_declarations ...
08:00.03Khertanhum ... the box say 7 but don't see tim nor simon pickering
08:00.18GeneralAntillesI see everybody.
08:00.19GeneralAntillesReload?
08:00.26Khertanlol ... don't use google chrome ... at least not to see the list :)
08:00.33Khertani got the entire list with firefox
08:00.34Khertan:)
08:01.18KhertanHum ... does the email have been already sent ?
08:01.25briandis ryan in here trying to do some electioneering???  hmm??
08:01.39briand<-- didn't get an email.  :(
08:01.53briand(and my maemo.org account is about 8 months old)
08:02.18GeneralAntillesHrm, that sounds bad.
08:02.26GeneralAntillesemail on the account valid and whatnot?
08:02.28briand...so, i can pretend to vote for whoever I want.  :)  I can even pretend to vote multiple times.
08:02.30GeneralAntillesdneary, ping.
08:02.33briandoh, yes.. of course.
08:02.34dnearypong
08:02.39melmothKhertan: 1249     Sep 03 dneary@maemo.or (  31) Maemo Community Council election - voting instructions
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08:03.00dnearybriand: What's your email address? I'll check if you were in the database
08:03.03Khertan?
08:03.10briandturbo@talstar.com
08:03.18melmothkeesj: that was the mail subject and its post date
08:03.45dnearyKhertan: Where are you looking that you only see 4 candidates?
08:04.02GeneralAntillesThe wiki
08:04.07GeneralAntillesHe's got a broken browser, or something. :P
08:04.08Khertandneary: don't bother with this ... it s a bug of google chrome
08:04.37Khertanthe page is truncated
08:05.08Khertani ven't get the mail too
08:05.22briandso, in other news:  Viewsonic couldn't repair my in-warranty VX924 19" LCD monitor... so they sent me a brand new VX1940w wide-screen 19" HD monitor to replace it.  :D
08:05.40briand...it's very nice.
08:05.41briand:)
08:05.42dnearyKhertan: I ven't?
08:05.57brianddneary: did u get my email addy?   turbo@talstar.com
08:06.08dnearybriand: Will check
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08:07.00dnearybriand: Don't have you in the maemo accounts list
08:07.03dnearyWhat's your name?
08:07.09briandBrian Dunworth
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08:10.33_marcell_briand: garage.maemo.org says you are a member since 2008-08-18.
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08:11.17briand_marcell_: that would be the date I signed up as a -developer- on the OMWeather project
08:11.51briandbut i created an account on maemo when my N800 arrived in february
08:12.28_marcell_briand: well, maemo.org accounts are created on garage and replicated to maemo.org. So it is not possible to have a maemo.org account and not have a garage account at any given point in time.
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08:14.47briandi'm not arguing whether your relational databases are synchronized or not.. nor am I claiming to have an account on maemo and not garage, etc...  I'm just saying that 08-18-08 is the day I used my account and joined the OMWeather project.
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08:15.20briandif the previous history of my existence has disappeared from your files... then, well, whatever.
08:15.22briand:shrug:
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08:20.27JaffaMorning, all
08:20.42briandin any case, i'm going to bed.  been up since 23 hours ago, and getting sleepy.
08:21.26briandg'morning Jaffa... and good night.  :)
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08:22.39Jaffa_marcell_: given the problems historically had with (garage.)maemo.org account synchronisation, I could believe briand - although I've not seen any of the code doing the syncing
08:23.17briandJaffa: don't sweat it.  ain't no biggie, anyway.  :)
08:23.34briandyou've already got representation in Tallahassee.    ...and, he's on the ballot.  :)
08:25.36briandpeace out... bed is callin'...  ;)
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08:39.22mikkov_my tablet seems to be in wsod state. I can ssh in, but hildon-desktop is somehow screwed
08:40.50mikkov_could somebody ls -l /usr/share/themes/Default from tablet?
08:49.42bef0rdgtk-2.0-key
08:50.04bef0rddrwxr-xr-x root: root
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08:56.38cityLightshi all
08:56.59cityLightsany one using diablo?
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08:58.02tekojo1cityLights, Yes
08:58.13cityLights1. can I dual boot OS2008 and diablo?
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08:58.32cityLightsas to use grub with two vmlinuz files?
09:00.19bef0rddiablo is 2008
09:00.19bef0rds/2008/OS2008/
09:00.19cityLights2. do you find diablo usefull and worth upgrading to?
09:00.54bef0rdyes
09:00.54tekojo1So you want to dualboot Chinook and Diablo?
09:00.55cityLightsI currntly use the first update for the N800 released a year ago
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09:01.51GAN800There's no reason to dual boot Chinook and Diablo.
09:01.51GAN800If you're running Chinook (50-2), you're already two versions behind.
09:01.51GAN800Yes, upgrade to Diablo.
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09:02.45cityLightsok, let me establish what version I got: I bought the N800 on Dec 2007
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09:02.45GAN800N800s ship with OS2007
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09:02.45cityLightsI then upgraded the OS with what was on Nokia site the next month
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09:02.46GAN800Which means you're ever farther behind.
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09:02.51GAN800Ah, nevermind
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09:03.05GAN800Probably 44-8
09:03.13cityLightsI got 2008 - if its diablo , then why is all this new talk in internettalk about diablo?
09:03.40cityLights/home/user # uname -a
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09:03.40cityLightsLinux Nokia-N800-51-3 2.6.21-omap1 #16 Sun Mar 16 20:34:14 CET 2008 armv6l unknown
09:04.06GeneralAntillesEr, because people like talking about new versions of things?
09:04.08GeneralAntillesJust install Diablo.
09:04.10GeneralAntilles~flashing
09:04.11infobotflashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
09:04.47cityLightsdo I have the current version?
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09:05.21GeneralAntillesNo.
09:05.30GeneralAntillesCurrent version is 30-2
09:05.52GeneralAntillesSo you're two releases behind.
09:06.19cityLightsGeneralAntilles: so is it just a matter of flashing a new kernel?
09:06.26GeneralAntillesNo. . . .
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09:06.37GeneralAntillesJust follow the instructions for your platform on the page I linked.
09:06.48cityLightso, ok
09:07.04cityLightsbut, will I be able to run all the software I am used to?
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09:07.31bef0rdmost of it
09:07.39cityLightsto make sure I can still run all my software I sugested using dual boot
09:07.50GeneralAntillesThere weren't any major library upgrades between Chinook and Diablo
09:07.54GeneralAntillesOnly libssl
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09:08.12GeneralAntillesAnything missing from Diablo Extras can just be grabbed from Chinook Extras.
09:08.20GeneralAntillesThere are no API breaks.
09:08.36cityLightsGeneralAntilles: am I running chinook?
09:09.09GeneralAntillesChinook is 50-2 and 51-3
09:09.15cityLightsbtw http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware is not responding
09:09.37GeneralAntilleshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo_(operating_system)#Release_history
09:10.57cityLightscool read...
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09:13.30cityLightsok, one thing left, I put my root file system on a SD card
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09:14.22cityLightsand use grub to boot from it.
09:14.22cityLightsafter flashing , what do I need to do?
09:14.22GAN800grub? :/
09:14.22GAN800~boot-sd
09:14.23infobotboot-sd is probably https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card
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09:14.23cityLightswill I need to copy the new diablo tree to my SD ?
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09:14.54GAN800Er, 'tree'?
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09:15.23GAN800Yes, you'll need to copy the newly flashed Diablo install over to the card.
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09:15.37cityLightsGAN800, when I went about prepering the SD to allow me to boot from it, I copied the file system fromt he flash to it
09:16.14teamcobrais personally backing his tablet up right now, getting ready to take the deblet plunge :D
09:16.37cityLightsso is the update to diablo only a matter of booting from flash and coping the diblo flash file system over to my SD?
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09:18.42cityLightsteamcobra, yes it does make sense to use a new SD to test diablo
09:19.01cityLightsif it fails, I can go back to chinnok
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09:20.00cityLightsI still can't see http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
09:20.06cityLightseven using google cache...
09:21.07GAN800Give it an hour.
09:21.17cityLightsthnaks
09:21.29cityLightsGAN800 thanks,
09:21.41cityLightsI am asking sevral times to make sure I got it
09:22.05cityLightsthis is as the SD has my home directory with importent files
09:22.34tekojo1_marcell_ will take a look at the wiki in a short while, I'm still too noob to do it
09:22.48cityLightsso I need to make sure that if I overwrite files , when coping files from flash to SD - I wont kill my N800
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09:23.53GAN800I really hope the server upgrades help the apache crashes
09:24.26crashanddieYou know the HR guy is a non-techie when you see this: Knowledge of three the following programming languages essential {Ruby, Java, C#, C++, HTTP, Perl, SQL, Visual Basic, .NET}
09:24.30GAN800having a wiki serve up blank pages 20-50% of the time makes it really hard to help people. :/
09:24.55JaffaGAN800: What's the priority of the bug #? Probably should be bumped to max.
09:25.09GAN800programs a virus for crashanddie in http
09:25.30bef0rdlol http
09:25.36GAN800ferenc was working on it, but he didn't know why the crashes were happening
09:25.44crashanddieSQL is hardly a programming language either ;)
09:25.46cityLightsok thanks , I will wait
09:26.00GAN800Jaffa, priorities are set by the team. :P
09:26.13crashanddieGAN800, I thought this was taken care of?
09:26.47JaffaGAN800: Impact or something then. This is a critical issue, it can't be dealt with normal timebox^Wsprint planning. P1 bugs take priority over everything else in the Real World[TM].
09:26.55GAN800What was?
09:27.18crashanddieGAN800, the blank wiki pages
09:27.30_marcell_the empty wiki page loads are most probably caused by the high load on the mysql server
09:27.32GAN800Jaffa, waiting on thes server upgrades.
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09:27.58cityLightsbut you guys did help me
09:28.18crashanddiethat's a lie
09:28.22crashanddieI never helped you
09:28.33tekojo1Working on the server side, but as said I am new
09:28.33crashanddie_marcell_, what's the httpd?
09:28.51_marcell_apache
09:29.00crashanddiethen I highly doubt it
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09:29.16crashanddieApache's default behaviour is the serve each and every single request
09:29.30_marcell_as long as it can
09:29.34crashanddieno matter if it takes an eternity and a half
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09:30.33crashanddiePlus, if you have PHP setup in a way that it doesn't even tell when the SQL connection was broken, you guys need to start thinking about the word "verbose"
09:30.48GAN800If only all of maemo.org worked as well as bugzilla.
09:30.56crashanddieno
09:31.06crashanddieif only all of maemo worked as well as ME :D
09:31.21crashanddieGAN800, isn't it quite late for you?
09:31.25GAN800Not at all? :P
09:31.26crashanddieGAN800, like... 4.30?
09:31.27cityLightsI'll be back....
09:31.32GAN8005:30
09:31.37crashanddiedjeezus
09:31.43crashanddieget yourself to bed, playboy
09:31.55GAN800I'm being useless and watching some NOVA special
09:32.19crashanddieGAN800, you wouldn't have someone in your family called Xavier, btw?
09:32.47GAN800No
09:33.10crashanddieNo french family somewhere?
09:33.23GAN800Highly unlikely
09:33.29crashanddiedammit
09:33.43GAN800I've got a cousin in Japan at the moment
09:33.49crashanddieI have this friend, who also happened to be one of my teachers at some point, who's called Xavier Abel
09:33.58crashanddieI chuckle everytime I see an email from you on the mailing list
09:34.43GAN800But the rest of us came over from Scottland/Ireland/Germany/Wales in the 1700s :P
09:35.06crashanddieoh, you did, did you?
09:35.16crashanddieI thought you were part of the natives, all that
09:35.20GAN800is Highlander
09:35.36crashanddieThen take that friggin blade of yours and shave yourself
09:36.11GAN800Shaky hands, dun wanna lose an ear
09:36.25crashanddieNot a painting fan then eh?
09:36.55GAN800Nah
09:36.57crashanddieGod I sound Canadian when I say that "eh"
09:37.37GAN800I actually had a friend try to get his gf to convince me to shave it
09:37.58GAN800but she deciced it looked to good when she finally met me. :P
09:37.59crashanddieok...
09:38.06GAN800s/to/too/
09:38.14crashanddieShe blind I reckon?
09:38.22GAN800Hehe
09:39.22crashanddieI hate beards
09:39.46GAN800h8t3r
09:40.01crashanddieIt's come up to a point I know have to walk around with a straight blade
09:40.10crashanddieand everytime I see a guy with a beard
09:40.14crashanddieI cut it off
09:40.23crashanddieno lubricant, no cream, no pre-shave
09:40.36crashanddiehardcore hard care
09:40.44GAN800'll be carying when you come over here for the next summit. :P
09:40.56crashanddie"over here"? Next summit in the US?
09:41.12GAN800I've decided, yes.
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09:41.16crashanddieoh, ok
09:41.30crashanddiewell, I say we go with the drift of the earth
09:41.34crashanddienext summit in Asia
09:41.40crashanddieand the one after that in the US
09:44.14crashanddieI saw a job, and thought "why not?", until I saw "* Tolerate tight deadlines and stress and alleviate it by applying your strong time management skills"
09:44.24JaffaHeh, nice.
09:45.11crashanddieI mean, most job offers don't care about that, because well, we're quite used to the fact it's going to be stressy and there's going to be shitty deadlines
09:45.38crashanddieBut when they say it... Isn't it like exponentially more extreme?
09:46.28crashanddieAs in, "no reference = normal levels of stress radiations", "explicit warning = probability of death: 100%"
09:46.57GAN800'Knives . . . lots and lots of knives'
09:48.28GAN800http://wiki.maemo.org/Getting_involved
09:48.38GAN800Somebody make that cool now.
09:50.20crashanddieGAN800, http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=luGGSdUJ1Pw
09:50.42crashanddieeverybody sing along: "Should I shave or let it grow now?"
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10:25.40teamcobraI just had an epiphany about 5 mins ago re: the next Big Tablet Thing(TM)... now I need to just need to get some backing ;p ;p
10:26.50Jaffateamcobra: oh?
10:30.16teamcobraJaffa: yeah, a few very useful addons, some are fairly cheap
10:31.17teamcobrabut to be really useful, the actual device would be arm11 based, multiple sound dsps (and could probably sell for a few k, although $500 would be the _sweet_ spot)
10:34.05teamcobraone of the others is so wickedly easy that I might have a working unit by tomorrow night, and I imagine nokia could sell them for ~$20 (maybe $25 w/ different brackets for the s-series/other smartphones)
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10:36.11JaffaGoing to share? ;-)
10:36.43dnearyCan anyone confirm bug #3677 for me, please?
10:36.52dnearyCould someone try to add a comment to a product?
10:38.42teamcobraJaffa, did I just hear you smack your forehead?
10:43.47_marcell_dneary: yep, comments are not displayed after a reload.
10:44.07Jaffadneary: confirmed (comment added)
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10:50.02Khertan_n810ping ?
10:50.22Khertan_n810what do you think of this : khertan.net/poubelle/screenshots28.png
10:51.21teamcobraKhertan_n810, strangely enough, didn't take me to a screenshot ;p
10:51.24Knirchbad url? I got the blog here
10:51.51Knirch(interesting 404 behaviour :D)
10:51.52Khertan_n810khertan.net/poubelle/screenshot28.png
10:51.55Khertan_n810oups sorry
10:52.17teamcobraKhertan, very clean :)
10:52.27JaffaKhertan_n810: Oh, that's much better.
10:53.01Khertan_n810thx
10:53.07teamcobraKhertan_n810, does that happen to support ical, or just google calendars?
10:53.16Khertan_n810google cal
10:53.43Khertan_n810how do u make a sync with an ical file ?
10:54.14teamcobraKhertan_n810, I will find out for you... I run portal servers by day and they all have built-in ical calendaring ;p
10:54.21JaffaKhertan_n810: would also be good if, like the OS X Calendar icon, the number shown was appropriate in the icon. Then you could have the existing flip day thing for day and no label underneath it on the bottom bar; a month-planner type icon (even though it doesn't render like that), superimposed with the week number and a similar one for the month. The last icon's agenda or something isn't it? Not immediately obvious from the clok.
10:54.51JaffaKhertan_n810: the other big improvement, if you can't pick up calendar colours from Google Cal (which would be *sooo* cool) is to have alternating rows in different colours in the main view.
10:55.30JaffaKhertan_n810: I suppose colours from Google Calendar is only most useful when you've got multiple calendars; until then alternating colours would help break up the list.
10:56.01Khertan_n810i plan to make alternate color ... but google color and alternate couldn t be used at the same time
10:56.07JaffaKhertan_n810: Oh, that reminds me, totally un-UI related feature request: ability to turn off alarm setting.
10:56.20Khertan_n810and processing image take too many time in python
10:56.25Khertan_n810but good  idea
10:56.42JaffaKhertan_n810: indeed; alternate colour if only one calendar and google cal colours if multiple configured (which, they can't be yet ;-))
10:56.47Khertan_n810alarm setting can be turn off in this version
10:56.54JaffaKhertan_n810: excellent :-)
10:57.17JaffaKhertan_n810: does the 'Add' button add it back up to Google Cal when you sync?
10:57.54Khertan_n810?
10:58.40JaffaKhertan_n810: Sorry, badly explained. The plus button on the bottom right adds a new event, n'est pas? If the user adds an event, will it be added to the Google Calendar when they sync, or is it purely local?
10:58.44Khertan_n810Jaffa: don t understand the  question
10:59.02Khertan_n810no it s added at sync
10:59.08JaffaCool
10:59.20Khertan_n810it s a two way full sync
10:59.46Khertan_n810the only thing at this time that is not sync is the 'who'
10:59.59Khertan_n810participants
11:00.19Khertan_n810but it s planned
11:15.45teamcobraKhertan_n810, http://packages.debian.org/unstable/x11/gdeskcal  <--- another pygtk project, and if google didn't fail me, supports ical ;)
11:16.32Khertan_n810i ll take a look
11:20.28aquatixpycage.de currently offline
11:20.29aquatixmeh
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11:22.32ustunozgurdoes last.fm scrobbling work with default media player? the control panel applet says: Status: Awaiting, but doesn't scrobble tracks.
11:22.45teamcobraKhertan_n810, sweet, I'm not much of a coder myself, but I am learning pygame now to make an app :) the only 2 languages I really know are basic and x86 asm, but I'll have fun :)
11:23.41lcukhas voted
11:24.39lcukjaffa, i see others are trying vala on the device :) its good to know
11:25.25Jaffalcuk: cool & cool.
11:26.28lcukive been pondering seeing which languages come closest to native c in compilation speed
11:27.11konttoriustunozgur: nope. it only works on 3rd party players
11:27.26konttoriustunozgur: the default media player is not announcing what is being played
11:28.59ustunozgurkonttori: ah, ok, but I remember it used to do that too. maybe in os 2007 I don't know. So, as it is, it is not much useful, is it? canola already has scrobbling in it.
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11:40.26lcukshivers
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11:44.37crashanddiedjeezus, people, stop using a ass backwards language on a sub-power device
11:45.08crashanddieteamcobra, I'm sure you love it python is close to your nickname, but please, learn a real language
11:45.46lcuknothing wrong with python :P hiya btw
11:45.57crashanddiehey bro
11:45.59lcukwas considering putting a python interface in
11:46.07crashanddieand yeah, there's something wrong with python
11:46.08crashanddieit's slow
11:46.12crashanddieit's dog slow
11:46.43crashanddieit's memory inefficient, it's bloathed, I mean, the only thing that's positive about it is that it has very decent OO concepts
11:46.55lcukno, people are trying to use python for a full language, it should be used as glue to bind the high performance optimized libraries together
11:47.07crashanddieI can understand that
11:47.09lcuk(ie, gtk to sqlite etc
11:47.15crashanddieIndeed, python would be awesome for that
11:47.27crashanddiebut it's like OO in PHP. People don't get it.
11:47.37crashanddieYou give someone a great tool, and they bastardise it
11:47.44lcukthere are many levels of oo
11:47.48lcuk:D
11:48.05crashanddieIn french, it's "POO"
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11:48.45lcukstrangely enough, its the same in english :D
11:48.46crashanddiecaio1982, lemme guess, you're 26yo
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11:49.19lcukhows london life?
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11:49.33crashanddieshitty expensive, I'm broke
11:50.03lcukboo hiss, any progression?
11:50.10lardmanhmm, if they're just going to use Python as glue, why not use asm instead
11:50.12crashanddieoverdrawn quite a bit, called a friend, told him he could have my drumkit for 1400euro, took it immediately
11:50.30crashanddielardman, because ASM isn't as high level?
11:50.44lcuklardman :D asm would need compilation (unless you are saying write raw binary?)
11:50.48lardmanwell bond lines should be as thin as possible to avoid weakness
11:50.57lardman;)
11:51.09lcuk101011011010110110110101101001011010111010101101 < barcode->isbn website lookup
11:51.16lardmanideal
11:51.29lardmanwell someone has to compile the components you link together of course
11:51.30crashanddieI always had the conception "stronger links = bigger, not thinner"
11:51.42lardmanwell we were talking about glue
11:52.07crashanddielcuk, I made git crash
11:52.11lcuka scripting language doesnt need to be fast because it doesnt do the hard processing: there is a need for a decent language on every machine:: from amiga with arexx, to windows with vbscript
11:52.17lcukand maemo with python
11:52.27lcukcrashanddie, you make everything crash
11:52.32lardmanlcuk: don't worry, I was taking the mick
11:52.54lcukphew!
11:52.58lardman:)
11:53.03crashanddielcuk, I made too much changes in CR, git shat itself severely, diff couldn't keep track of all the changes, it just said "6 new files, 4 removed"
11:53.41crashanddieI had to create a new repo and pull from the old one
11:53.54crashanddieoh wow, the irony
11:53.58lcukthats normal isnt it, if you make major structural underlying changes so file1 != file2 by a large majority, doesnt diff just give up and replace the file?
11:54.04dneary_marcell_, Jaffa (post-lunch): Thanks!
11:54.23dnearyDo you see your comments when navigating to the product afterwards?
11:54.26lcuk\o hi dneary, thanks for fixing i managed to vote
11:54.35lcukbites his tongue
11:54.37crashanddieI had voted before the change
11:54.47crashanddielcuk, the whole point of git is that it tracks content, not files.
11:54.53dnearylcuk: You're welcome
11:54.58dnearyWho'd you vote for? ;)
11:55.01lcukcrashanddie, speak to linus ;)
11:55.15crashanddienha, he never answers my mails with bug reports
11:55.24crashanddieand suddenly 2 or 3 versions later, the patch is integrated
11:55.25lardmandneary: exit polls? ;)
11:55.33crashanddiedneary, I voted for all of them
11:55.44lcukdneary - i filled in the write in participant, we are getting the stay puffed marshmallow man to be head of maemo
11:55.56dnearycrashanddie: really? You managed to do that?
11:56.49crashanddiedneary, you shouldn't have activated simultaneous queries in MySQL, the queries aren't write protected from each other.
11:56.49lardmanlcuk: you weren't voting for the head, just the committee members - the head is decided by a game of thumb-master between the chosen few
11:57.13dnearycrashanddie: I don't understand...
11:57.27crashanddiedneary, in other words, if you issue 10 queries in the time it takes to finish the first, all 10 get executed, I don't know if it worked, but I didn't get an error message
11:57.38dnearyYou opened 5 browsers and submitted all of them at the same time?
11:58.07crashanddieno I'm just shitting with ya, but yeah, technically it's feasible cuz the maemo.org server has simult queries enabled, from what I can tell
11:58.19crashanddie(I didn't do anything, don't worry)
11:58.21lcuklardman, it would be more informative to  invite all the committee members to do battle in takeshi's castle
11:58.35crashanddiedneary, I'm just saying, you should implement it with transactions
11:58.36lardmanlol, that sounds like it would be fun
11:58.43lardman(to watch rather than do!)
11:58.49dnearycrashanddie: We did, I think
11:59.07crashanddiedneary, oh? I'll have to review the code then, I must have missed something
11:59.12teamcobracrashanddie, well, I am open to other suggestions, but it is going to be sdl based
11:59.17lcukcrashanddie, you login and are given a token whilst at the same time have your login token removed (from what i understood)
11:59.20lbtso I'm on -dev and -community (and here) but I haven't heard anything from any of the candidates apart from the initial "I'm standing" statements
11:59.22crashanddieteamcobra, C ! C++!
11:59.36crashanddielbt, it's on the wiki
11:59.43dnearyin step4-commit.pp
11:59.46dnearyphp
11:59.52crashanddielbt, there's a special wiki page with all their presentations, and you can ask questions to them
11:59.52dnearyfunction step4_do
12:00.00dneary$res = elec_sql_start_transaction ($handle);
12:00.01dneary...
12:00.06lbtdid I miss an email about it?
12:00.08lardmanlbt: I just said how we'd elect a chairman ;)
12:00.08teamcobracrash: I'll think about it
12:00.12lcukdneary, i thought it was 2 distinct steps - you get a random token from your login, which is then used as voting
12:00.17lcukbut you can only login once
12:00.17dneary<PROTECTED>
12:00.18dneary...
12:00.26lcukmaybe i read it wrong
12:00.26dneary$res = elec_insert_new_vote ($handle, $anon_token_id, $vote);
12:00.30crashanddiedneary, there's just something I didn't understand
12:00.38dneary...
12:00.41crashanddiedneary, why the hell ask the person's email address?
12:00.44lardmanlbt: what did you want to hear from us?
12:00.45*** join/#maemo Anunakin (n=fazzi@189.82.158.19)
12:00.47dneary$res = elec_sql_remove_tmp_token ($handle, $election_id, $email, $tmp_token);
12:00.51crashanddieI mean, the anon token should've been sufficient, right,
12:00.52crashanddie?
12:00.55dneary...
12:00.57dneary$res = elec_sql_commit ($handle);
12:01.03crashanddiedneary, ok, we got it
12:01.10dnearycrashanddie: Entropy
12:01.19dnearyEnsuring against random string attacks
12:01.42crashanddieok, how long is the string? How many different chars?
12:01.46dnearyWe cross check the elector's identity and the code
12:01.58dneary10, with a 62 character alphabet
12:02.07crashanddieok
12:02.09dneary62^10 possibilities
12:02.28crashanddiewhat are the chances they find one at random?
12:02.35dnearyBut with a 12,000 electorate, a non-zero possibility that two people would get the same temp token
12:02.36crashanddieHow many have been issued?
12:02.57dnearyAnd a 62^10/12000 probability of randomly hitting a real anon token
12:03.19*** join/#maemo setanta (n=setanta@200.184.118.132)
12:03.26lcukwhy are these tokens not timelocked?
12:03.29lcukor are they?
12:03.43lcukthen it doesnt matter about how random ot not they are, they simply expire
12:03.50crashanddieok, so that's just 1 in 69,941,613,822,361
12:03.52dnearyThey are connected to the election
12:04.00dnearyThey're regenerated for each election
12:04.02crashanddiequite frankly, I think the odds are pretty good :D
12:04.13lcukyes, but their use in choosing a candidate should be limited
12:04.17dnearySince the election time lapses, the codes do too
12:04.21dnearycrashanddie: Really?
12:04.26crashanddieyeah
12:04.37dneary62^10/12000 is a number close to 1
12:04.44crashanddiewut?
12:04.46lcukfor a computer with no IDS, yes thats quite a good lottery to be in
12:05.19crashanddiedneary, 62^10 = 839,299,365,868,340,224
12:05.22dnearyUh... operator precedence... / is lower than ^
12:05.26dnearyMy bad
12:05.38dneary62^10/12000
12:05.38dneary69941613822361
12:05.38dneary62^(10/12000)
12:05.38dneary1
12:05.42crashanddielol
12:05.57dneary(it was a geek joke gone bad)
12:06.04lardman62^10/12000 is a number close to 62^6
12:06.27lardmanwhich is still reasonably large
12:06.34crashanddieyeah, quite
12:06.40lcukok, before we get sidetracked:  is crashanddie's assertion that he voted multiple times valid?
12:06.50crashanddielcuk, no
12:06.54lardmanlcuk: no he was taking the mick too
12:07.08*** join/#maemo pppoe_dude (n=blimpdud@unaffiliated/blimpdude)
12:07.10pppoe_dudehello
12:07.16lardmanlbt: are you David?
12:07.18crashanddielcuk, last time I checked there weren't any transactions
12:07.36pppoe_dudeanyone here successfully tried using gizmo with the default sip client that comes with n810?
12:07.44crashanddielcuk, so it would have been possible in a very specific environment
12:07.57pppoe_dudei can get voice calls working one-way (sometimes two-way) but the quality is pretty low
12:08.08pppoe_dudealso, no contact list (which i suppose has to be xmpp?)
12:08.08crashanddiepppoe_dude, I don't use gizmo, but I use SIP successfully, yeah
12:08.10lcukcrashanddie, actually there are: dneary just posted the flow
12:08.21pppoe_dudecrashanddie, which sip service do you use?"
12:08.30crashanddiepppoe_dude, french ISP, "Free"
12:08.35pppoe_dudeahok
12:09.01pppoe_dudething is i have all my sip geogrphical phone numbers with gizmo
12:09.01lcuklardman, yes he is
12:09.08pppoe_dudemaybe i'll switch when they expire
12:09.10crashanddie(and yes, before you ask, it is illegal to use a SIP account as a means to call to France for free from the UK, they just haven't spotted me (yet))
12:09.17lardmanlcuk: ok, thanks, just wondering
12:10.08pppoe_dudecrashanddie, illegal?
12:10.09pppoe_dudewhy
12:10.14*** join/#maemo etrunko (n=edulima@200.184.118.132)
12:10.24crashanddielcuk, yeah, I know there are transactions *now*, but the voting software I checked hadn't implemented them yet
12:10.57crashanddiepppoe_dude, because it's supposed to be a service for people *in france*, who live *in france*, and who have an account with that ISP *in france*
12:11.16pppoe_dudeah ok
12:11.23melmothwave a french flag
12:11.32crashanddieputs it on fire
12:11.33*** join/#maemo Disconnect (n=nnnnnnnn@sigkill.net)
12:12.09pppoe_dudei have a tiny ding on my nokia n810
12:12.11lcukcrashanddie, you will be on the Edvige database
12:12.12pppoe_dude:(
12:12.23pppoe_dudevery tiny, but there nonetheless... i think it hapened when i dropped it the other day
12:12.25crashanddielcuk, eh?
12:12.57lcukpppoe_dude, my missus put mine on desk and leaned on it with elbow - the blood went from my face.  your ding is minor :P  (I notice this because that areas of touch is now not sensitive to finger
12:12.59crashanddieah, I'm already on it
12:13.09melmothcrashanddie: the now official name of the rg database.
12:13.14lcukhttp://developers.slashdot.org/developers/08/09/05/0059220.shtml
12:13.15pppoe_dudelcuk, ah i see
12:13.20pppoe_dudelcuk, was it an n810?
12:13.30lcukyer
12:13.37pppoe_dudeah. well, my condolences haha
12:13.46pppoe_dudemine is purely cosmetic
12:13.55lcukand last time i dropped my 810 thankfully the slideout keyboard acted as   a shockabsorber
12:13.58pppoe_dudebut also, my n810 is only about 2 months old
12:14.13pppoe_dudeso i feel a bit bad about it. but I will get over it haha
12:14.16lcukomg internet getting slow (really slow i cant see what im typing, im gonna close this back later on )
12:14.33lbtlardman|lunch: yes, I'm David :)
12:14.51pppoe_dudeyou know what the n810 can use?
12:14.57pppoe_dudea little speaker like on a phone
12:15.10pppoe_dudelike a privacy speaker
12:15.16mikkov_hmm, i was able to recover my tablet from wsod state without reflashing :)
12:15.29crashanddiepppoe_dude, they call that earphones
12:15.44pppoe_dudecrashanddie, yes but they aren't always handy
12:15.55crashanddieI think they're quite eary
12:15.59pppoe_dudebut that is a solution
12:16.29pppoe_dudei wish gizmo would integrate well with the default sip client
12:16.41pppoe_dudethat way i can still get all the nice notifications and things
12:16.43crashanddiepppoe_dude, it's not a phone, no point in adding a phone speaker just for kicks
12:16.55pppoe_dudecrashanddie, i realise that
12:17.34pppoe_dudei do use it like a phone tho
12:17.41pppoe_dudequite frquently
12:18.18pppoe_dudewith ear phones coz they're more comfortable
12:18.45pppoe_dudeis there a nice organiser program other than gpe calendar?
12:20.08pppoe_dudei would like to try ubuntu mobile if/when it becomes available
12:20.12pppoe_dudethat should be a bit exciting
12:20.34*** join/#maemo MrTuttle (n=hklein@i59F74767.versanet.de)
12:20.37*** join/#maemo andrewfblack (i=927e3333@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ac4cbeba045939b5)
12:20.39*** join/#maemo ab (n=ab@pdpc/supporter/professional/ab)
12:20.49crashanddiepppoe_dude, there might be a nice agenda popping up one of these days, stay tuned ;)
12:22.21andrewfblackHey guys
12:22.34andrewfblackand girls if there are any
12:23.14Jaffalo andrewfblack
12:23.38Jaffaalways gets confused cos his work uid is 'andrewf' <firstName><surnameInitial>
12:23.40*** join/#maemo errordeveloper (n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
12:24.06andrewfblacklol whats your middle name?
12:25.21crashanddieandrewf kinda sounds like someone who has a serious speaking deficiency
12:26.04crashanddielike the guy who just got bitchslapped and bit his tongue, and tries to call someone in the hallway "ANDREwf"
12:26.22andrewfblacklol
12:26.55andrewfblackI used to use like 20 names but now I'm to the point were I just use my real name as logins lol
12:29.54Jaffaandrewfblack: James
12:30.38andrewfblackahh just noticed the F is your surname initial and not your middle name lol
12:30.45JaffaIndeed.
12:31.53JaffaAny German speakers here? I've got my train ticket to Berlin for the summit and there's a bit where it says about my seat reservation: "1 Sitzplatz, Wg. 24, Pl. 76, 1 Fenster, Tisch,  Nichtraucher"
12:32.21JaffaI'm guessing: 1 seat, wagon (i.e. coach) 24, place  (i.e. seat) 76, 1 window, table, no-smoking?
12:33.23crashanddieJaffa, you are correct
12:33.53Jaffacrashanddie: cool, thanks. Oh for the summit to be in the UK - or even France where I can at least get by ;-)
12:34.04JaffaBerlin'll be cool though: never been before.
12:34.12*** join/#maemo cmarcelo (n=cmarcelo@200.184.118.132)
12:34.12crashanddieI won't make it to the Summit
12:34.25crashanddieI was really really really looking forward to get there
12:34.38crashanddiebut it's just not gonna happen, from where I'm standing
12:34.58JaffaDoh :(
12:35.37crashanddieYeah
12:36.18crashanddieif I land a job between this and the summit, I might just go crazy and come anyway
12:36.40JaffaStill looking in the UK/London?
12:36.42crashanddieBut considering I had to sell my drumkit to keep living, well, that kinda says a lot
12:40.00*** join/#maemo ustunozgur (n=ustun@88.232.80.182)
12:40.39teamcobracrashanddie, you're not the only one :/
12:40.51*** join/#maemo chenca (n=chenca@200.184.118.132)
12:41.13crashanddieyeah, but I'm awesome, the Summit's not going to be great without me !
12:41.21*** join/#maemo netx (n=rlange@osiris.darkempire.org)
12:41.47crashanddieI mean, seriously ! I hope you guys slap Quim for not giving me the financial aid :P
12:42.08teamcobrawell, I'm installing deblet.... didn't frag on the reflash ;)
12:44.23teamcobranow I just have to keep myself out of trouble, which may be difficult w/ a full-blown lenny install ;p
12:46.48andrewfblackcrashanddie don't feel bad I have a job but still can't go to summit
12:49.36Jaffaemails an old friend in Berlin suggesting a catch-up and him acting as a night-life guide for a bunch of drunken geeks.
12:49.52teamcobrabrb, having  a smoke (and turning the damned tv off, U.S. Politics = The Worst(TM)
12:50.46teamcobraI know a girl that lives in Berlin...... supposed to visit her this summer, going to .nl first with my Mom (believe it or not!!)
12:51.18teamcobrawill be the vacation to end all vacations........ not sure if I'll come back ;p
12:51.44Jaffateamcobra: coming to the summit?
12:53.05teamcobraJaffa: nop :( helping watch a family member until he gets into an assisted living place
12:53.48teamcobraI'll have to make it to the 2009, barring a Gradius Laser Shot to the head
12:54.49teamcobrathe Maemo in Police Cars presentation sounds a bit terrifying, btw ;)
12:54.56Jaffateamcobra: sounds like what you're doing's more important, FWIW
12:55.34*** join/#maemo luck^ (n=Luciano@200.184.118.132)
12:55.53teamcobraJaffa: yeah, I try to look at it that way :) are there plans to put the pdfs/presentation slides online after the summit?
12:57.05Jaffateamcobra: and videos
12:57.18Jaffa'll have to practice his happy voice
12:57.22teamcobraand at least w/ irc/twitter/etc it can't be _too_ hard to see how it goes
12:57.32*** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@mar44-1-87-90-32-28.dsl.club-internet.fr)
12:57.43JaffaIndeed
12:58.17teamcobrasweet, if you need help w/ anything in that regard, lemme know.... a/v is my specialty :)
12:59.22Jaffateamcobra: some stuff on here about it http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2008/Organization#Marketing_.26_coverage
12:59.26lcukwhat do i do if i forgot who i voted for *rolleyes*
12:59.36Jaffalcuk: tough? ;-)
13:00.40lcuki know theres nothin i can do abouti it (not that i would wanna anyway) i trust myself to have done it right, and its quite democratic that i cannot tell anyone, but i should at least remember myself ;)
13:00.52lcukis havin a blonde day
13:01.01andrewfblacksummit is in berlin right?
13:01.16lcukberlin centre i think
13:01.47*** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust710.midd.cable.ntl.com)
13:02.02andrewfblackI was just wondering how much it would have cost me to fly there if I wanted to lol
13:02.18Jaffaandrewfblack: Yep. Berlin. Somewhere called 'C-Base', in the Mitte bit in the middle.
13:02.51lcukandrewfblack, im sure you cant fly directly there, you would have to stop at one of the designated airports
13:03.24Jaffalcuk: he could have a jet pack (Superman wouldn't have to pay to use his flying ability, so must be something which consumes fuel)
13:03.28lcukget onto travel agents site and see what you need
13:03.42teamcobradon't worry, Summit 2009 will have Vacuum Tubes
13:03.50teamcobraand Ted Stevens
13:03.58andrewfblackI would have to make 2 stops to get there and would cost between $920 and $5400 a ticket and I would need 2 lol
13:04.05teamcobrawow
13:04.12andrewfblackthats flying coach
13:04.33teamcobra_ouch_
13:05.12andrewfblackmis counted I have to change planes 5 times for those prices
13:05.39andrewfblackno wrong again its 2 chagnes going and 3 coming back
13:05.47andrewfblackso 5 total for round trip
13:06.29Jaffaouchy
13:06.32andrewfblack24 hours total travel time with lay over yeah I wouldn't want to make that trip if I could aford it
13:06.51lcuki have 2 flights there and 2 flights back
13:06.57lcuk(had to vanish sorry)
13:07.10lcukmanchester to somewhere in germany on a minibus
13:07.34lcukgets to see a variety of different aircraft
13:07.56VDVsx_I can't edit anything in the maemo wiki, my login always expire when I click in any link, anyone experiencing a similar behaviour ?
13:08.00lcukhow many for you jaffa? or are you gettin a private helicopter?
13:08.15andrewfblackjust for shits and giggles I check First class prices since it is a 24 hours total flight for me.  $13627 for each of my two ticktes I would need lol
13:08.25Jaffahas to drive from Rugby to Dover; ferry to Dunkirk; drive to Arnhem in .nl for 2 nights with in-laws; drive to Essen on the 16th; 5 hour train to Berlin. Relax/drink/think at conference and then return on the Saturday to Apeldoorn
13:09.01Jaffaagain, via train. On the Monday drive from Arnhem back to Rugby.
13:09.02lcukomg jaffa, i forgot about your marathon european roadtrip
13:09.14Jaffa:)
13:09.17teamcobraJaffa: taking pictures? that sounds like a wicked road trip
13:09.27Jaffa"Hopefully" I won't lose my mother-in-law en route ;-)
13:09.28lcukandrewfblack, at that price, bring a guest
13:09.34teamcobrahahahaha
13:09.58JaffaThe train from .nl to .de is supposed to be quite impressive in terms of landscape and stuff. I imagine I'll be hacking on mud, mediaserv, tablet-encode and my presentations tho'
13:10.38teamcobraseen
13:10.39andrewfblacklcuk well if I went I would have to bring my wife I mean she uses my Nokia as much as I do. so that would be $27,254 for my plane tickets I wonder what the average income in hte US is lol
13:11.08teamcobraandrew: at that point, you could buy her her own nokia ;)
13:11.22teamcobraor start a small fab of your own :p
13:11.34*** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@200.184.118.132)
13:12.55lcukandrewfblack, cobra is right, get her her own nokia, and since then you have too much luggage, you will have to get your nokias their own seat
13:13.02andrewfblackfor $28,000 or even the $10 for coach I would just host my own Maemo Summit in the Us lol
13:13.17teamcobraandrew: and use point-to-point video ;)
13:13.41lcukn810 hi def video conferenscing
13:14.01teamcobra(not a _bad_ idea for the next summit, but you don't want to fragment it too much by having everyone in different places, then you may as well just have an Ekiga Summit ;p ;p)
13:14.09crashanddie$28k for a airplane ticket? How many people are you taking with you?
13:14.11lcukwill finish that soon
13:14.27*** join/#maemo Knirch_ (i=fatal@debian.as)
13:14.28andrewfblackcrashanddie thats 2 people if we fly first class
13:14.37crashanddieOh come on
13:14.39*** join/#maemo sven-tek (i=linux@p508EF67C.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:14.47crashanddieI've seen transatlantic flights at $600 a piece
13:14.58lcukcrashanddie, he lives in a small atoll in the south pacific
13:15.01andrewfblackI'm not joking go to orbits and put in Dothan, AL to Berlin
13:15.09lcukthey have to build a floating runway
13:15.14crashanddielol
13:15.21teamcobrahahahaha
13:15.29crashanddieyeah well, don't complain about not being able to come then
13:15.29andrewfblackI could fly for as low as $920 a ticket for coach with 3 stops
13:15.37crashanddiethen do it
13:15.44lcukand 4 dvt's
13:15.53andrewfblack$920 is still to much for me
13:15.59crashanddieI mean, there's a huge difference between $2k for you and your wife, and $28k
13:16.12crashanddieI'd even go as far as to say the difference is around $26k
13:16.13oilinkiandrewfblack: from where to where?
13:16.19lcukyer, aboput that different - put it in my account
13:16.25lcukk thx bye
13:16.32andrewfblackfrom dothan, al to Berlin
13:16.43oilinkiwhere is dothan?
13:16.48andrewfblackUSA
13:17.09crashanddieandrewfblack, it would cost me some £300 back and forth, booze and hostel included
13:17.30lcukthey have beer in germany?
13:17.35andrewfblackcrashanddie your already on that side of the world
13:18.05crashanddielcuk, I think they just started to brew some, yeah
13:18.13lcukandrewfblack, it costs $30 to go to kmart and buy a rubber boat
13:18.30lcukw00t, i hope its fermented in time
13:18.38andrewfblackHey are Airlines charging you guys over there for bags now in the US its $15 for first bag and upto $50 for second
13:18.45crashanddielcuk, he's on an island, like US, err, I mean, like us, so everything's 30% more expensive
13:18.58crashanddieandrewfblack, yeah, same here
13:19.12teamcobrathe next nit needs a hole drilled into the stylus holder (to facilitate tying the !@$@! stylus to the tablet)
13:19.21lcukthey charge us by  weight
13:19.22oilinkilcuk: or maybe catch an weather balloon and try to get to the jet streams :)
13:19.36crashanddieandrewfblack, back in the day, you'd get like 20kg for free... Now You have to pay for the first 15kg... And then it's 21euro per kg above
13:19.45lcukteamcobra, lost yours?
13:20.09teamcobrajust found it again.... but the thing is, I'll pull it out, use it, put it in my lap, and then stand up
13:20.12crashanddieteamcobra, why not just put it back in everytime you put it down?
13:20.21lcukdo what i do: never ever ever ever take it out opf the case - i use an old stylus from somewhere else and dont touch the proper one
13:20.47teamcobracrashanddie, I make a valiant effort (I still have my orig. 2), but sometimes things hit the fan and I need to run across the house
13:20.56lcukteamcobra, read this:
13:20.57lcukhttp://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2008-02-29.log.html
13:21.04teamcobrayeah, I was thinking of getting some NDS stylii
13:21.35teamcobraHAHAHAH, wow ;)
13:21.36lcuki have not taken my stylus out of its hole since that day :)
13:21.46VDVsxGeneralAntilles, can you give me a small help with the wiki issue ?
13:22.32lcukback later anyways
13:22.44crashanddie(lcuk) i have not taken my stylus out of its hole since that day
13:22.45crashanddieso quoted
13:22.57andrewfblackI still have both my stylus but one day I'm going to get around to making a mold of them and make some extras incase I lose them
13:23.27teamcobrais there a way to turn off the power saving on the 810? my wlan cuts out, even though idle time is set to unlimited
13:23.39crashanddielcuk, just got offered a PHP job in Cambridge/Oxford/Central London, pick one
13:24.01*** part/#maemo JamieBennett (n=jamie@5ac88438.bb.sky.com)
13:24.17teamcobrathe only way to keep it from cutting out after being idle for 5min or so, is to constantly ping something in an xterm :/ not fun for large scp transfers, etc
13:24.50teamcobraandrew: make a mold and have emachineshop.com make like 10000 ;p
13:24.53Jaffacrashanddie: Central London should pay at least twice anything else. Cambridge has a large number of tech firms. Oxford's a bit meh
13:25.05Jaffacrashanddie: Driving to the centre of Oxford is a pain and parking is expensive
13:26.22*** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@86.56.69.25)
13:26.33andrewfblackI should make a custom I went to the Maemo 2008 Summit Theme for everyone who is going
13:27.19lcukand make another batch "i missed the maemo summit and im gutted"
13:27.39lcukcrashanddie, what jaffa says (he know everything)
13:27.52Jaffalcuk: someone said that in a team meeting yesterday. Worrying.
13:28.08crashanddiehe knows, know your mother-tongue
13:28.15lcukjaffa? said what - they were gutted
13:28.32lcuki cant do anything since i cant see what im typing
13:28.39Jaffalcuk: no, I knew all
13:28.41crashanddiethen stop typing
13:28.49Jaffacrashanddie: Central London would be quite handy, I imagine.
13:28.50lcukvnc is ultra slow today, tracy has started  some downloads off
13:29.06crashanddielcuk, internet is dog slow here too
13:29.21lcukmight be virgin itself then
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13:35.00teamcobranvm, disabled PSM for my home connection
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13:38.43teprrrhi, anyone up to maemo-qt4 around? just wondering whether repository.maemo.org's extras-devel pool for diablo is under update or broken atm? getting size mismatchs for a lot of packages
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13:39.35teprrrlibqtcore4, libqt4-network, libqt4-assistant, libqt4-dbus, libqtgui4 and libqt4-test at least
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13:51.10Stskeepsheh, N800 experience of the day - eldery man asking me what exactly it is, if you can go on the internet with it.. i explain a bit it's a computer, etc.. and he asks if he can print from it too
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13:53.31pppoe_dudelol
13:53.45pppoe_dudewould be nice if it had a little thermal printer
13:55.17Stskeepswell i think people shouldnt underestimate the value of the tablets for elderly
13:57.30lardmanAnyone got Friday afternoon boredom and fancy looking at a malloc problem?
13:58.28derfI'm not bored, and it's Friday morning here still, but sure, where are you at?
13:58.51lardmanright, it appears that malloc() on the dsp returns 1 when it fails
13:59.09lardmanI tested this by trying to allocate 10000 bytes, and it failed, returning 1
13:59.43Stskeepsmaybe it has another definition of NULL? :P
13:59.53lardmanno, NULL is actually 0
13:59.58Stskeeps(yes, weird things like that -has- been seen on OS'es :P)
14:00.03lardmanstrange but there we go, it is a DSP after all ;)
14:00.09lardmanhttp://maemo.pastebin.com/m5ad316c5 is the debugging output
14:00.50lardmanon l186 I test to see what NULL produces, and then try some mallocs for different sizes
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14:01.11lardmanhttps://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/mk2-use-malloc-sparse-buffers/dsp/codebook.c?revision=31&root=dsp-tremor&view=markup is the code in question
14:01.29lardmanscroll down to the comment "// some malloc test code here!"
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14:02.21*** join/#maemo Woefix (n=Mickey_@86.80-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
14:03.09lardmannow the confusing thing is that the code was originally failing to allocate "work", which was to be 28 bytes in size (according to the output), (line 191), but I can successfully allocate this in the test mallocs
14:03.33lardmanso am I missing something obvious (been staring at this code for far too long!)
14:03.34lardman?
14:03.35andrewfblackThis has nothing to do with anything you guys are talking about but you know I love GIMP I have been using Photoshop for years since like version 5 I think it was.  I just started using GIMP Portable on my thumb drive at work so I can get some work on my Themes done, and I love it I have no use for Photoshop anymore
14:04.26Stskeepslardman: so am i understanding the code correctly as in you're taking the malloced pointer, convert it to a 32 bit integer and start manipulating it?
14:05.13Stskeepser, or well, actually try to print it
14:05.42Stskeeps(sorry, long day at meetings :P)
14:06.02lardmanStskeeps: just so I can output it, yes
14:06.10teamcobrathis also has nothing to do with anything, but the same place that I got my 810 from this summer @ $299 is now charging $389! wow
14:06.13lardmanStskeeps: the dbg() fn can only handle 16bit data types
14:06.34*** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@cpc1-oldh7-0-0-cust232.manc.cable.ntl.com)
14:06.39lardmanor rather <=16bit
14:07.07crashanddielardman, have you guys been allowed to vote?
14:07.21lardmanyep
14:07.25Stskeepslardman: well what is _ogg_malloc defined as?
14:07.32lardmanmalloc
14:07.44andrewfblackteamcobra I wish I would have gotten mine for $389
14:08.23Stskeepslardman: as in usual C malloc or what?
14:08.46Stskeepslibc, that is
14:08.58lardmannot libc, but similar
14:09.06teamcobraI thought $299 was going to be a new price and that the n9xx was on its way, but (very) glad I sprung for it :D
14:09.14Stskeepslardman: ah, so from the dsp
14:09.22lardmanStskeeps: yep
14:09.57derflardman: Your malloc had already failed at that point.
14:10.11derfLines 187 through 190 are all the same.
14:10.22derfOh, no, wait, you have free's inbetween.
14:10.24derfSorry.
14:10.58Stskeeps[279680.992187] vorbis_book_unpack: lengthlist malloc; lengtlist=[65535,127]
14:11.00teamcobraandrew: that extra time you got out of yours made up for it, I'm sure.... I've only had mine for about 2 months, and it's always within arm's reach at max ;)
14:11.02Stskeeps(sorry for double paste)
14:11.08Stskeepshappens before the actual crash
14:11.08derfThough 0x7FFFFF is a very suspicious address.
14:11.24Stskeepsmaybe they're returning (void *) -1?
14:11.34derfMaybe.
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14:12.01andrewfblackteamcobra I got mine about 6 months ago I got it right before the price started dropping I should have waited a few weeks
14:12.23teamcobrastskeeps: is there an easy way to remove the dropbear ssh server + telnet server from nit-debian after install?
14:12.28teamcobraandrew: d'oh
14:12.50Stskeepsteamcobra: eh.. nit-debian or deblet? i assume you use newest :P you mean the usb telnet one?
14:12.53Stskeepsyes
14:13.00teamcobraahh, deblet
14:13.00Stskeepsdpkg --remove usbnet-emergency-telnetd i think it's called
14:13.01teamcobranewest
14:13.07lardmanderf: hmm, yes, that would appear to be more like a fail message
14:13.07teamcobrasweet, thanks :D
14:13.27Stskeepsi'm probably going to make the emergency console thing be a hold-down-key thing or whatever
14:13.39lardmanI should probably have not freed the memory until the end of the block
14:14.02teamcobrait freaked me out when it extracted the emergency telnet server, thought it just untarred something... walking around w/ a telnet server + fail
14:14.06teamcobraerm, = fail
14:14.10Stskeepsteamcobra: it only listens on usb0
14:14.19Stskeeps(yes, i thought about that)
14:14.30lardmanderf: actually that must be wrong, as lengthlist shouldn't be freed by the time i get to my test mallocs
14:14.30teamcobraapplauds
14:14.37derflardman: Right.
14:15.12derfSo you're trying to debug things well after they initially broke.
14:15.18lardmanapparently
14:15.48lardmanstrange that I can get either 1 or 0x7FFFFF, though the former may be because the latter address has been used and screwed things up
14:15.52Stskeepsteamcobra: so any first impressions on deblet else?
14:15.56teamcobrawell, if all goes well, I'll have the gnome-basic environment set up soon (apt-getting the 2nd set of packages)
14:16.03lcuklardman https://trac.xiph.org/ticket/182
14:16.09teamcobracan;t comment yet, figured I'd ask while you were around :)
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14:16.31Stskeepslardman: maybe you get a NULL somewhere and 1 is the way the malloc tells you "damn you, you should have seen the OOM already"
14:16.34Stskeeps:P
14:16.43Stskeeps"so die die die"
14:16.57Stskeepslo qwerty12
14:17.06qwerty12'ello Stskeeps
14:17.17qwerty12w00t, the weekend iz here
14:17.35Stskeepswonders what to hack on today
14:18.36lardmanwhat's 0x7fffff as a signed int?
14:18.40teamcobrasts, does right click work in xfce as well, or just gnome (out of curiousity)?
14:18.42Stskeeps-1 i think
14:18.44Stskeepsteamcobra: yeah
14:18.49Stskeepslibgtkstylus is included in both
14:18.51lardmanStskeeps: yeah, that was what I thought
14:19.11Stskeepsteamcobra: works in lxde too :P
14:19.29lardmanlcuk: thanks, will take a look at that
14:19.32teamcobraSts: gwinning, gwinning, gwinning! :)
14:19.39derflardman: 8388607.
14:19.43lcuklardman, read that bug report, it talks about masking and alignments and subtracting 1s from things i believe
14:20.02teamcobraI haven't used lxde yet.... looking @ their homepage, it looks pretty nice
14:20.05lcukall related to _ogg_malloc
14:20.17lardmanderf: that's unsigned though isn't it?
14:20.33derflardman: It doesn't have a sign bit set.
14:20.41derfUnless you mean as a 23 bit number, and who would use that?
14:20.53lardmanwell the pointer is actually 23bit
14:20.56derf(in which case it's -1)
14:20.57lardmaniirc
14:21.04lardmanyeah, ok so it's a failure
14:21.39derfI thought we already said that?
14:22.10Stskeepsteamcobra: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/lxde.png
14:22.11lardmanyeah, just making sure ;)
14:22.17Stskeepsteamcobra: (we're still working on this environment.)
14:23.22teamcobrais speechless
14:23.32teamcobrawhat needs to be done? that looks _perfect_
14:23.46teamcobraas in, how can I help? :)
14:24.14Stskeepsbrightness app (done - http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/lxde-brightness.png), rotation app, .. http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23371
14:24.44Stskeeps(for things to work on)
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14:25.49teamcobrabookmarked
14:26.14Stskeepsand this is just first v1.0 .. i have plenty more ideas to work on, but it could just be interesting how fast it's done ;)
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14:27.16teamcobrayeah, it looks very very clean..... I'm guessing lxde is pretty snappy as well ;)
14:27.57Stskeepsquite.. i still need to do some base things to deblet to make it less battery consuming and run more snappy
14:28.09lcuklardman, so now that you have mathematically proved than 0==1 what other miracles can you show off?
14:29.05lardmanlcuk: that's merely the start!
14:29.27Stskeepsnext up 1+1=2?
14:29.27Stskeeps:P
14:29.29qwerty12Stskeeps: I finally got it past watchdog rebooting the device but it crashed another part, is it alright if I just remount that partition, bind /dev etc and chroot into it and apt-get -f install?
14:29.32lardmanI think I'll have to add error checking to the millions of mallocs :(
14:29.32lcuk:D heh you do know c-base is right next to the river dont you
14:29.45Stskeepsqwerty12: what part did it mess up in? the huge apt-get?
14:29.51qwerty12Stskeeps: yep
14:29.52lcukjust redefine _ogg_malloc :)
14:30.04teamcobraSts: is it an impossibility to use directfb on the nit?
14:30.06Stskeepsqwerty12: apt-get -f install yeah, and then .. sec
14:30.07lcukjust created app_alloc for a similar purpose
14:30.20Stskeepsteamcobra: err.. no clue, it has a framebuffer
14:30.24teamcobra(not sure about driver limitations too much other than the 3d issue)
14:30.26lardmanyeah, I can add the check to the define
14:30.35Stskeepsand we lock deblet users to X
14:30.37Stskeepser
14:30.38Stskeepsdon't
14:30.53lardmanI'm running out of space for static declarations now though, too many dbg() text strings in there!
14:30.55lcuklardman, do it as a fn, defines lead to notorious problems
14:31.00qwerty12teamcobra: directfb has an omap driver that compiles with the omapfb driver in the kernel
14:31.00lcukespecially if you are trying to be clever
14:31.08teamcobraI'll test it later on, directfb should free up some memory and speed a few things up
14:31.13lardmanlcuk: yep, fair enough
14:31.13teamcobraqwerty: oh wow! :)
14:31.47lcukqwerty directfb - would it interest me as someone who likes fast graphics?
14:32.30teamcobralcuk: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/12/08/framebuffer-vs-x11/   might be your answer ;)
14:32.47lcukerrrr not with this slowass connection it wont (vnc)
14:32.47teamcobraack, nvm that
14:33.01lcukjust an aye or a nay would suffice ;)
14:33.11teamcobrayes, it is much quicker than x ;)
14:33.20lcukis it quicker than xv?
14:33.27Stskeepsqwerty12: after done, run python in /usr/libexec/deblet , import deblet_installer\ndeblet_installer.fake_start_stop_daemon_delete("/mnt/deblet")\n
14:33.31Stskeeps(\n being newlines)
14:33.47qwerty12Stskeeps: thanks
14:34.14lcukteamcobra, http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PUPp_mE7rwI whichever library will let me do this sort of thing ill use
14:34.20teamcobralcuk: will have to benchmark on the nit to say for certain
14:34.20Stskeepsqwerty12: and apt-get autoclean; apt-get clean as well. and you'll have to write your own .item afterwards and set root password
14:34.37qwerty12f***, I can't wait :P
14:34.54Stskeepsit's quite simple, plenty of examples on ITT :P
14:35.09teamcobralcuk: yeah, no reason why it wouldn't fly :)
14:36.12Stskeepsqwerty12: if it wasn't because apt-get is so bloody picky (apt-get errors, have to dpkg --configure -a, or apt-get again, no idea what caused it etc), i'd make a "Abort, Retry, Complain to God" dialog
14:36.21Stskeepsor able to pick up on install again
14:36.21Stskeeps:P
14:36.22qwerty12lol
14:37.13Stskeepsso qwerty12, since your watchdog kills your tablet so much.. I'm inclined to believe you're actually the secret hoster of maemo.org ;>
14:37.31lcukteamcobra, ill have a look, but for now im a bit dubious as to anything fast smooth and tearfree on this device
14:37.40qwerty12Stskeeps: With these uptimes? http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/N800_Uptime.htm :P
14:37.43Stskeepshehe
14:38.01lcukback later
14:38.46qwerty12Arrgh, anyone know what the chinook/diablo equivalent of the bora HILDON_AUTOCAP is?
14:38.53Stskeepsqwerty12: i asssume you installed to a partition btw?
14:38.59qwerty12Stskeeps: hell yeah
14:39.01qwerty12:P
14:39.02Stskeepsk
14:39.12Stskeepselse you'd have to write your own vfat second stage linuxrc ;)
14:39.30qwerty12That would make me SOL :)
14:41.13Stskeepsi went insane writing the template.
14:41.14Stskeeps:P
14:42.24Stskeepsit's a neat trick though
14:43.21qwerty12fglrx hates me :(
14:44.00Stskeepsit failed again?
14:45.36qwerty12Stskeeps: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/screenies/Screenshot-2.png >.<
14:46.03Stskeepsqwerty12: time to run a memtest?
14:46.10Stskeepsbut yes, that looks -fucked-
14:46.11Stskeeps:P
14:46.24qwerty12Hehe, yes, I should do thanks
14:47.24Stskeepsso, standard crond takes a lot of battery, right? but what makes alarmd different in its ways of doing things?
14:47.49qwerty12No idea but you can always apt-get source alarmd :)
14:48.04Stskeepsi thought that was closed source
14:48.09yacoobhm... what's with people using mpd, when you can just use upnp av?
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14:48.29qwerty12Stskeeps: Nah it's open. There is a tool which uses cal but that doesn't get built by default
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14:50.24Stskeepsah, it uses retu
14:50.26Stskeepsthat's interesting
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14:52.24qwerty12yacoob: I use mpd as the server on the tablet itself
14:52.53qwerty12~curse Werror
14:52.54infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, Werror !
14:53.44RST38hmoo, all
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14:54.07qwerty12baa
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14:55.32lardmanit's the weekend!
14:55.40lardman|gone:)
14:57.10qwerty12w00t, it's takeaway night!
14:57.28Stskeepsis there any way to detect if a tablet goes into deep sleep? if i wanted to make a script noticing it
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14:58.01qwerty12Stskeeps: iirc, if it is, the touch screen is disabled right?
14:58.24yacoobqwerty12, what for?
14:58.46qwerty12yacoob: the only mp3 player I have that doesn't slow down the rest of my tablet
14:58.47Stskeepsqwerty12: total dim doesnt reflect on 100% sleep state
14:58.55Stskeepsi have been on ssh wit dimmed screen
14:58.56yacoobah :>
14:59.27qwerty12Stskeeps: hmm, there is a value in sysfs that can disable the touch screen, i was thinking you could read it if the touch screen was disabled :>
15:02.26Stskeepsqwerty12: i can detect activity but thats not the same as deep sleep.. if i have to optimize deblet, i have to know what makes the tablet sleep :)
15:02.29Stskeepsother than a severe beating
15:02.39qwerty12ah :)
15:02.40qwerty12lol
15:02.49qwerty12wishes UNetbootin supported "darwin" ;)
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15:05.32Stskeepsqwerty12: you gave up on bootchart or how was it?
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15:06.07qwerty12Stskeeps: I gave up. after getting it to produce logs which wern't in a single tgz, when I shoved it into the visualiser, it was blank, wtf :D
15:06.10Stskeepsqwerty12: hehe
15:06.13Stskeepsalright
15:06.26Stskeepsjust made a .jar that supports MMC traffic measurement so
15:06.35Stskeepshttp://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/bootchart.bootlogd.png
15:07.28qwerty12That's cool :)
15:07.59qwerty12Stskeeps: lol, how many times do you compile a kernel? :P. I see #16
15:10.10qwerty12w00t, my "conversion" of some bora code to diablo worked
15:10.13Stskeepsqwerty12: i use rotation enabled kernel or something..
15:10.25JaffaStskeeps: pfft, I want a bootchart for Maemo ;-)
15:10.35qwerty12Stskeeps: ahh :).I roll out my own kernel, want to look at the patch? :P
15:10.57StskeepsJaffa: some guy did it i think .. sec
15:11.25Khertan_n810Voting open: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_Council/Candidate_declarations | http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 | logs at http:/888
15:11.26Stskeepshttp://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/jvtmuukk/chinook/bootchart/bootchart-n800-os2008-008_bclng_50ms.png
15:11.46*** topic/#maemo by Khertan_n810 ->
15:11.49JaffaStskeeps: thanks
15:11.57JaffaKhertan_n810: err...
15:12.09Stskeepssetting irc topics on a n810 must be a nightmare
15:12.12Stskeepseither that or its in his pocket..
15:12.12Stskeeps:P
15:12.36teamcobra:P
15:12.43qwerty12Jaffa: If you can roll that into mud-builder, I'll think you are the greatest!
15:12.48qwerty12"logs at http:/888"?
15:12.57qwerty12hell at http:/666
15:13.23*** topic/#maemo by sp3000 -> Voting open: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_Council/Candidate_declarations | http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 | logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/
15:14.20qwerty12lcuk: btw, I could vote, ha! :P
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16:06.17Khertan_n810Jaffa: sorry for the topic
16:06.39Khertan_n810my n810 was setting it while it was in my pocket
16:06.50Khertan_n810s/was/has
16:07.13teamcobrahehehe
16:09.47qwerty12Stskeeps: do I have to leave deblet mounted as ro in the .item file?
16:10.22Stskeepsqwerty12: yes
16:10.38Stskeepswe remount rw when time is
16:10.50qwerty12ok, thanks, I think this is actually working :O
16:12.20Khertan_n810is there a problem setting gtk.CellRenderText background and foreground ?
16:12.25qwerty12Well, except for the gnome settings daemon not starting :/
16:12.37Khertan_n810the only 'color' i get is blank
16:13.50Stskeepsqwerty12: hm? in deblet or?
16:14.09qwerty12Stskeeps: in deblet. volume control isn't wokring either
16:14.26qwerty12if I can't get this to work, I'll leave the debian until the lxde environment is ready
16:14.29Stskeepsdid you do the fake start stop stuff?
16:14.34qwerty12Stskeeps: yep
16:15.13Stskeepshmm.
16:15.17Stskeeps-full or -basic?
16:15.31qwerty12There was only -basic
16:15.31Stskeepsand lxde environment is sortof ready, apt-get install nit-env-lxde
16:15.34Stskeepsk
16:15.49Stskeepsit's just not customized to tablet use yet but it's trivial to get working
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16:16.41Stskeepsand then update-alternatives --config x-session-manager
16:17.16Stskeepscould you verify that /sbin/start-stop-daemon is actually not fake?
16:17.29Stskeeps(did you remount when apt-getting to /mnt/deblet?)
16:18.34qwerty12/sbin/start-stop-daemon looks real to me
16:18.41qwerty12I binded /dev/ etc
16:18.53qwerty12and chrooted and dpkg --configure -a and apt-get -f install
16:21.31Stskeepssounds like the correct steps
16:21.48qwerty12meh, i've restarted it now and booted back into maemo. I've got an headache, I can't be bothered atm :)
16:22.32qwerty12what I will do is though is work in a merger of your initfs and my initfs :>
16:22.39Stskeepshehe, alright
16:22.52qwerty12:)
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16:25.50qwerty12Stskeeps: though, does bootmenu remove any other entries that you add manually when it refreshes?
16:25.53Stskeepsqwerty12: it's kinda weird your maemo sets out like that.. you run 48mhz kernel?
16:26.06qwerty12Stskeeps: yeah + preempt :/
16:26.16Stskeepsqwerty12: no, but edit /etc/bootmenu.conf as this is updated along
16:26.24Stskeepsas that's what's going into initfs
16:26.30qwerty12k
16:27.17qwerty12I have no doubts in the deblet project, I think the installer is perfect, just my N800 :). The nit-env-stskeeps installed fine but was a bit lacklustre for me :)
16:27.26Stskeepshehe, yeah
16:27.29Stskeepsi got tired of it myself too
16:27.36Stskeepsit was mostly for showoff :>
16:28.46qwerty12heh, I wanted to install more apps, where's my synaptic!?! :P. (yes, I did use apt-get in the end to install irssi. until on the next boot when it decided to corrupt itself >.<)
16:29.19Stskeepsbut if you want to install succesfully maybe flasher-3.0 with boot original kernel (not flash, just use image for boot :P)
16:29.43qwerty12My N800 is too unstable, better make that flash :P
16:30.13Stskeepshehe
16:31.09qwerty12has to add mkfs.jffs2 to initfs, that's a standard for me now :)
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16:34.04Khertan_n810someone know i can remove border between two gtk.CellRendererText ?
16:36.39qwerty12Stskeeps: btw, have you ever looked at /usr/share/images/logo-nokia?
16:41.51yacoobqwerty12, isn't compression overhead too high?
16:42.02yacoob(I guess that depends on what you keep on such fs)
16:42.06qwerty12yacoob: for what?
16:43.02yacoobqwerty12, I'm guessing you've formatted mmc[12] with that?
16:43.44qwerty12yacoob: no :), I leave mkfs.jffs2 in the initfs for backing up the /dev/mtdblock4 / rootfs. my mmc is vfat and ext3
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16:44.08yacoobah.
16:44.19Khertan_n810bye
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17:00.11*** topic/#maemo is Voting open: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_Council/Candidate_declarations | http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 | logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/
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17:16.31snowmoon-workPlease won't someone think of Jack and support the iPhone envy hotline?
17:16.46johnxhmmm
17:16.49johnxeh?
17:17.01qwerty12johnx: read his crap on -developers
17:17.28lbtI rather liked my justification as to why our touch screens were hot ;)
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17:23.45brontideoh, great, now he will come here
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17:43.29zhaozhouAH! Maemo channel! Great!
17:43.54johnxhello zhaozhou
17:44.10zhaozhouHey. :-)
17:45.18zhaozhouGot my n810 home today, I'm over-excited!
17:45.19zhaozhou:-D
17:45.58johnxwhat are you planning to use it for?
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17:47.31zhaozhouBoth as a study-helper-tool and for entertainment. :-) Browsing for a todo and a calendar right now. :-)
17:48.49johnxgpe-calendar gpe-todo mcalendar and dates
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17:48.57johnx^some things you might be interested in^
17:49.32jott~musthave
17:49.33infobotit has been said that musthave is Maemo Mapper, FBReader, Vagalume, Canola, Numpty Physics, X-Chat, Evince, ScummVM, MyTube, MPlayer, Advanced Backlight, USBControl, Large Statusbar Clock, Transmission and much more. Also see http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Remarkable_community_projects
17:49.36zhaozhoujohnx, Oh, thank you!
17:49.42jottzhaozhou: ^^ :)
17:50.02Khertan_n810hum i should add mCalendar :)
17:50.13jott;)
17:50.32Khertan_n810thx jott to promote my solft
17:50.34Khertan_n810soft
17:50.37zhaozhouALthough, i saw that i had to have the suite for the gpe-summary, which seems nice. :-D Would be great to have it on the front-page
17:51.16Khertan_n810you can also use homecalendar :)
17:51.28Khertan_n810which depends on mCalendar
17:54.22zhaozhouMust practice writing on this thing... have'nt typed with a qwerty keyboard for quite awhile. :-)
17:54.44andrewfblackzhaozhou the typing gets easier after a while
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17:56.01andrewfblackyou know the only thing I don't like on the keyboard is the FN key only on one side I use @ alot and its hard to type it
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17:57.19zhaozhouandrewfblack, Ah. I'm not too fond of qwerty at all, but with this thing, I'm willing to re-learn it. xD
17:58.36zhaozhouWhat devices do you all use? Mostly the n800 and n810?
17:59.01andrewfblackN810 here
17:59.34jottmost here have n8x0 nowadays. but there are still a few 770 only users :)
18:00.34zhaozhouNice. :-)
18:00.43johnxI have a growing collection of ARM linux devices O_o;
18:00.53zhaozhouHmm... is there perhaps support for NFS in this thing?
18:01.01zhaozhoujohnx, My first one, woho!
18:01.11andrewfblackI'm not beleaving this my Matrix theme I've been working on for weeks is screwed up
18:01.55johnxzhaozhou, I'm sure someone has compiled a module to support NFS...
18:02.04jottzhaozhou: yes. nfs-common
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18:03.54andrewfblackI can't beleave 3 weeks of work on my Matrix theme is gone
18:04.26andrewfblackI was jus talking about how much I started to like GIMP instead of Photoshop and then this happens
18:04.32johnxandrewfblack, what happened?
18:04.53andrewfblackI was working on it this morning and when I open it now its all corpt looking
18:05.17zhaozhouWhoa. :D
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18:05.33johnxandrewfblack, can I take a look at it?
18:05.45andrewfblackyeah whats your email addy?
18:07.41andrewfblackits on its way
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18:08.04andrewfblackthe only backup I have is in .png format and is over a week old
18:08.13andrewfblackplus it wont have my layers in the .png one
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18:08.35lcuk:D im famous, darius knows who i am.  in reality i dont know whether to be scared or not
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18:12.28andrewfblackjohnx my email wouldn't send it to big here is a link to it andrewblck.com/Stuff/MatrixTemplate.psd
18:12.40andrewfblackjohnx my email wouldn't send it to big here is a link to it http://andrewblck.com/Stuff/MatrixTemplate.psd
18:13.06johnxandrewfblack, I'll take a look at it...no promises.
18:13.28VDVsxjohnx, just for curiosity how much arm gadgets do you have ?
18:13.39andrewfblackthanks, if I have to I can start over with the weekold .png file
18:14.04johnxVDVsx, 3: a zaurus 5500, a zaurus c1000 and an n800
18:14.29johnxandrewfblack, in the future you might want to avoid working in .psd format in gimp...
18:15.12VDVsxjohnx, a good collection :), I have 3 to
18:15.20johnxVDVsx, what have you got?
18:16.04VDVsxjohnx, n810, openmoko freerunner and a iPOD (still count as ARM device :) )
18:16.33johnxVDVsx, well if we can count anything with an ARM, my phone probably counts too :P
18:16.43johnxI'd bet there's an ARM7 in it, maybe...
18:16.53andrewfblackwell I've been going back and forth between Photoshop at home and GIMP at work I guess I just need to stick with GIMP everywhere
18:17.05VDVsxjohnx, maybe mine too, I dunno
18:17.49johnxandrewfblack, well, import to your psd to gimp, work in xcf, then "save a copy" as psd
18:18.05johnxyeah, I see what you mean by corrupted...that looks pretty bad
18:18.39zhaozhouHmm, is there a site for themes to this little beauty? :-)
18:19.08VDVsxjohnx, my phone have : ARM 11 369 MHz processor, so 4 devices
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18:19.47VDVsxARM is everyhere :)
18:19.59lcukwaves @ VDVsx
18:20.17andrewfblackjohnx when I screw up a document I screw it up lol
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18:21.16johnxandrewfblack, I've never seen gimp screw up a picture in 10 years of using it...but working in PSD format is pretty risky I guess
18:22.59andrewfblackyeah I'm going to start working in xcf and just save a copy to .psd incase I need to take it back to psd
18:23.06andrewfblackor just ues GIMP at home now
18:24.06johnxthat really sucks...I thought it might be something reversible :/
18:24.57andrewfblackI'll just have to start off from where my .png version is from.  I was going to release that theme tonight but don't look like i am now.
18:27.00lcukandrewfblack, the key phrase you need here is backup
18:27.36andrewfblackI do but I only backup the stuff on my thumb drive about once a week
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18:28.16johnxdo "lazy backups:" save a copy locally then copy to thumb drive
18:28.31lcukthats not often enough :) get into the routine of making nightlies - even if you dont use something like svn you can still do it
18:28.35lcukyer
18:29.12lcuki have a small script which i can run anytime which simply .tar.gzs the cwd with a datestamp and reason
18:29.32johnxlcuk, you're starting to sound like a linux geek :D :P
18:30.06lcuklol johnx, ive always taken backups :)  i still have the contents of my user profile from college days
18:30.24johnxnot that. just the linuxy jargon :P
18:30.51lcukmy linux n00byisms are simply because i dont know the syntax
18:30.56lcuk:)
18:31.14johnxI was just lucky that linux was my first command line
18:31.29andre____...hmm, "making nightlies"... i've read "night lies" and wondered what that refered to :-P
18:31.43lcuki was sat in work yesterday with a cmd.exe window open wishing it to be a proper console
18:31.47lcuki was shocked at myself
18:31.53lcukand the bastard thing didnt understand ls
18:32.31johnxlcuk, muahaha. we will drag you kicking and screaming into the linux shell
18:32.32lcuklogged into the router instead
18:32.56lcuki surprisingly felt more at home there :) it has busybox on it and telnet works
18:33.13johnxremembers the cisco router command line
18:33.14johnxugh
18:33.31Stskeepsyawns
18:33.36ds3IOS is fun
18:33.41ds3IOS is your friend ;)
18:33.47lcuklong day Stskeeps ?
18:33.58lcukor are we borin u
18:34.41Stskeepslong day
18:35.12Stskeepsup 6.30 for student group meeting at uni 8.30-11.00, work 11 till late and home
18:35.12Stskeeps:P
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18:39.49andrewfblacknot going to beleave this but I got my file back its from last night but I remembered that I was installing some new apps to my Thumb drive last night and when I do that it backups my documents then wipes the drive first.  Well I just used mesh.com to remote to my desktop at home then looked on my wifes Harddrive since I have it shared on network and there it was.
18:40.00andrewfblackI lost about 2 hours of work on it I did this morning but thats not bad
18:41.02johnxrawk!
18:41.26lcukandrewfblack, amazing, now take a backup of your backup and store it in your backup backups location and make sure you learn from this
18:41.27ToyKeeperdiscovers that the gui application manager doesn't list all packages under "all", and that nfs-common is missing dependencies (portmap, rpcbind)
18:42.01lcukToyKeeper, thats because its a consumer device and they dont need to be able to uninstall ub3rneededentries
18:42.49andrewfblacklcuk I just need to setup my thumb drive so it backs it self up when I plug it in at home
18:42.57jottToyKeeper: portmap and rpcbind are in the diablo/tools repository
18:43.06ToyKeeperThanks.  :)
18:43.35lcukandrewfblack, as long as you feel comfortable losing stuff between then cool.
18:44.06lcuktries to think like a good c coder all the time: assume everything will fail and cover all the exits
18:45.09ToyKeeperI'm not used to having inter-repository dependencies.
18:45.22jottheh welcome to the world of maemo :)
18:45.40jottbut it is seriously better nowadays.
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18:57.40zhaozhouThis is a modified version of debian, right?
18:57.40Stskeepsstep one of making bluetooth dun work under deblet.. -- find wtf your phone is hiding, since it is visible in bluetooth, but you cant see it..
18:57.43Stskeeps:P
18:57.48Stskeepsmaemo? aye
18:58.29ToyKeeperHmm, nfs-common has some issues.  insmod: can't open '/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/sunrpc.ko': No such file or directory
18:58.39zhaozhouNice. :-)
18:58.40ToyKeeperwonders why /lib/modules doesn't exist
18:58.59zhaozhouAnother one setting up NFS..
18:59.08zhaozhouTHen ill probably run into that soon enough aswell.
18:59.50johnxToyKeeper, look for it under /mnt/initfs/lib/modules
19:00.11ToyKeeperYeah, I just found that with a "find /", but why does the package look in the wrong place?
19:00.36johnxToyKeeper, if it's meant to run from initfs?
19:01.13zhaozhouWhat's the default user password?
19:01.21johnxzhaozhou, it's not set
19:01.23johnxneither is root
19:01.48zhaozhouAh. Hard to sudo then.
19:01.57ToyKeeperThis looks promising: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/settingupnfs/
19:02.02johnxzhaozhou, rootsh from downloads.maemo.org
19:02.58ToyKeeperIt was the first hit for "diablo sunrpc" (the sunrpc module is still missing; apparently nfs-common is missing kernel-diablo-modules-extra as a dep).
19:03.49zhaozhoujohnx, ah. :-D thank you
19:06.25GAN800~root-access
19:06.26infobotfrom memory, root-access is http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access
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19:33.41Stskeepsfor crying out loud.. wvdial segfaults upon connection
19:33.55GeneralAntillescackles loudly. https://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint5#Activity_log
19:36.07zhaozhouHmm... can i kinda simulate an up-arrow?
19:36.16JaffaHa! Ubuntu on my work laptop has singularly failed to detect that my work monitor isn't plugged in, so is only showing half the display
19:36.20zhaozhouprevious command. :-)
19:36.24GeneralAntillesEr, simulate?
19:36.30GeneralAntillesJust use the up arrow?
19:36.36JaffaGeneralAntilles: oooh, shiny.
19:36.45zhaozhouGeneralAntilles, Oh wait!
19:37.34zhaozhousmashes his head against the table.
19:37.39GeneralAntillesJaffa, both because of Fremantle and because I'm about to get an insane karma boost. ;)
19:37.42zhaozhouThat was stupid of me. xD
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19:37.57GeneralAntilleszhaozhou, don't worry, most people don't figure that one out on their own.
19:37.57MishaS~seen X-Fade
19:38.00infobotx-fade is currently on #maemo, last said: 'murrayc: Probably later this day.'.
19:38.14GeneralAntillesMishaS, should be back tomorrow according to the wiki.
19:38.26MishaSGeneralAntilles, yes, I remember :)
19:38.28GeneralAntillesWhich sounds like he actually means "Monday". ;)
19:38.40MishaShe just appears time to time here, as far as i see...
19:38.51GeneralAntillesHasn't said a word since he left for vacation.
19:38.57MishaSreally?
19:39.01GeneralAntillesNope
19:39.05GeneralAntillesNot one. ;)
19:39.12MishaShmm...
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19:39.18JaffaGeneralAntilles: heh
19:39.21MishaSwonders why he saw "14 mins ago"...
19:39.44MishaSbtw, does anybody know where karma thing is explained? :)
19:39.49GeneralAntillesIt's not.
19:39.56MishaSgood :)
19:39.58GeneralAntillesI opened an enhancement request to get a breakdown page.
19:40.02MishaSthen the place is called "nowhere" :D
19:40.15GeneralAntillesYou can always dive into the code to look
19:40.19GeneralAntillesIt's all in one place.
19:40.33MishaSnah... i do not want to look into that code.. :-/
19:40.44MishaSi might stop using the site after that.. :)  if i do not like the code...
19:41.39JaffaGeneralAntilles: hmm, do you remember the id of the "karma not updating bug"? Mine's stopped updating - I may have plateaued - but it could be back again
19:42.05GeneralAntillesI'm pretty sure my discussions karma hasn't updated in a while.
19:42.19MishaS. o O (maybe it was updated manually?..)
19:42.32MishaSguys, what do you think about packages in extras to affect karma?
19:42.36GeneralAntillesIt should run once every 24 hours.
19:42.45GeneralAntillesThey should already
19:42.51MishaSreally?
19:42.53GeneralAntillesSince Downloads entries are automatically generated.
19:42.58MishaShmm...
19:43.05MishaSwhat about downloads from extras?
19:43.05GeneralAntillesYeah, my discussions karma is stuck.
19:43.13JaffaGeneralAntilles: mine neither. Neither has my "blogs" despite getting a load of favourites for, oh, the election one
19:43.20GeneralAntillesAs are the favorites and buries
19:43.37GeneralAntillesMishaS, the downloads numbers are calculated for Downloads from Extras.
19:43.51GeneralAntillesThe karma formula doesn't factor in downloads, I believe, though.
19:43.59GeneralAntillesIt's based on the rating.
19:44.02MishaSsorry, what i meant that download counts would affect uploader's karma...
19:44.13johnxif it came from downloads I think rm_you would win...
19:44.40MishaSwonders how to encourage developers to use extras instead of using own repositories
19:44.41*** join/#maemo errordeveloper (n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
19:44.45JaffaI think the calculation of karma from downloads.maemo.org is sub-optimal. It should be a combination of number of votes, overall rating & number of downloads
19:44.53JaffaThat doesn't encourage extras use, admittedly.
19:44.59GeneralAntillesPoke them continually with one of my sharpened sticks until they comply.
19:45.01JaffaUploading a package to extras could give a boost, perhaps?
19:45.26MishaSponders idea of DDoSing gronmeyer :)
19:45.26GeneralAntillesWell, Downloads is based on the downloads from Extras.
19:45.40GeneralAntillesMishaS, it hasn't been updated for Diablo.
19:45.47GeneralAntillesWhich is helping curb its popularity.
19:46.01JaffaGeneralAntilles: not for all of them - certainly for the non-tablet software it's just number of clicks on the 'download' link
19:46.05MishaSit does not have to be updated for diablo... 2008 is enough
19:46.29JaffaGeneralAntilles: aha. #2481 - going to reopen
19:46.39GeneralAntillesThe best thing we can do to get developers to use Extras is to provide incentive.
19:46.51GeneralAntillesMake the autobuilder straightforward, simple to use, and FAST
19:47.03lbtisn't it?
19:47.11GeneralAntillesProvide useful stats tracking features.
19:47.11lbtI found it so
19:47.16GeneralAntilleslbt, only sometimes. ;)
19:47.23melmothResolve autobuilder bugs... :-)
19:47.38Stskeepsjohnx: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=221269&postcount=16 :)
19:47.40GeneralAntillesStats breakdowns would help.
19:47.45lbtlooks around to make sure he's not in #maemo-meeting
19:48.14johnxStskeeps, does it behave differently from normal debian?
19:48.15GeneralAntillesSome value-added features for the Application manager might be cool, too.
19:48.25*** join/#maemo Guest74858 (n=AngieQ@dpc6746187014.direcpc.com)
19:48.29GeneralAntillesRatings and bug reports direct from h-a-m
19:48.40JaffaGeneralAntilles: I've name checked you on #2481 reopen
19:48.44Stskeepsjohnx: not really no - but wvdial has a bug so gnome-ppp and other gui utils using it won't work
19:48.51Stskeepsjohnx: but i have a connection going now atleast
19:48.54zhaozhouYour favourite media player for maemo? :-)
19:49.14MishaSGeneralAntilles, what's not 'straightforward', 'not simple' and 'not fast' about autobuilder?
19:49.23*** join/#maemo krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132)
19:49.24johnxzhaozhou, youamp and canola are nice
19:49.42MishaSand how AppMgr could be improved?
19:49.48GeneralAntillesMishaS, when firewall issues crop up that prevent the autobuilder from fetching dependencies
19:49.52GeneralAntillesor when the server's overloaded
19:49.55*** join/#maemo dougt (n=dougt@c-67-164-43-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
19:49.58GeneralAntillesor when builds die for no reason.
19:50.07GeneralAntillesSmall things, and I'm mostly speaking generally. :)
19:50.07lbtStskeeps: can you point me at something to get me to: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/lxde.png which I caught in passing earlier...
19:50.08MishaSGeneralAntilles, firewall issues are still there?
19:50.12*** join/#maemo simboss (n=simone@host26-190-dynamic.27-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
19:50.24GeneralAntillesMishaS, not that I know of, but, like I said, I'm speaking generally.
19:50.40MishaSGeneralAntilles, to support your nick name? :)
19:50.48Stskeepslbt: apt-get install nit-env-lxde, edit nm-applet.desktop in /usr/share/applications to not only show in gnome. same goes for bluez-gnome one
19:51.01Stskeepsoh, i mean in autostart in ..
19:51.12GeneralAntillesMishaS, :)
19:51.18Stskeeps<PROTECTED>
19:51.21GeneralAntillesSome more cool features might help, too.
19:51.26GeneralAntillesMaybe a live build monitor.
19:51.43*** join/#maemo n800n (n=e@adsl-75-3-13-149.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net)
19:51.48MishaSi must say that number of packags in diablo repository is surprisingly bigger than in chinook's one :)
19:52.07MishaSnow if it would be possible to encourage the rest to use it... :)
19:52.13lbtStskeeps: ta...
19:52.19GeneralAntillesDon't get me wrong, btw, I like the autobuilder, and I think it's been a major boost for Extras
19:52.40elektwhat's the lightest mp3 player battery-wise?
19:53.06Stskeepslbt: and lxlauncher in the background.. didn't autostart it
19:53.12johnxelekt, probably the included one
19:53.21MishaSGeneralAntilles, no problems.  it's the next step that seems to be very difficult :-/
19:53.33dystopiaStskeeps do you still code on UnrealIRCd?
19:53.41GeneralAntillesGood documentation will help bring the stragglers in.
19:53.50elekti thought so, but i was hoping you'd say canola ;)
19:53.54GeneralAntilles~upload-extras
19:53.55infobothmm... upload-extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras
19:54.01GeneralAntillesThat needs to be fleshed out some
19:54.10GeneralAntillesperhaps cover more edge cases
19:54.16elektwe should do some benchmarks
19:54.24Stskeepsdystopia: i try to avoid it.. besides that tablet work is much more rewarding
19:54.32*** join/#maemo NeoStrider_ (n=daniel@189-87-139-211.nit.megazon.com.br)
19:54.35NeoStrider_hey folks
19:54.44dystopiaa'ight... loved your IRCd :-)
19:54.45Stskeepsjohnx: oh, i noticed something in matchbox source, an applet.. not sure if that has something that makes it more integrated
19:55.17Stskeepsas it embeds the keyboard or something
19:55.22Stskeepsdystopia: http://inspircd.org/?p=stats speaks for itself :>
19:55.35johnxStskeeps, hmm...now there's a thought
19:55.53dystopiahihi
19:56.06dystopiaStskeeps: and codey? whats he up to these days?
19:57.14Stskeepsdystopia: codemastr? he hasn't been around for years.. he's with http://www.rightreasontech.com/ i believe
19:57.30elektok one more question. what games do you guys play on n8*0
19:57.41elektwhen on the road
19:58.14GeneralAntilleshttps://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/games/
19:58.16Stskeepsnumpty physics :P
19:58.26dystopiaStskeeps: interesting, thanks
19:58.26qwerty12_N800duke nuke
19:58.28qwerty12_N800m
19:58.39elektduke nukem on nit?
19:59.08VDVsxI have a frustrating problem with the maemo wiki in the last days, my login is always expiring, anyone can help me :( ?
19:59.27dystopianethack<3
19:59.28lbtStskeeps: is there an issue with wifi on deblet?
19:59.42lbtit seems to have a vastly reduced range]
20:00.12Stskeepslbt: i'm not sure if the mw setting is done right, atleast
20:00.15lbtie 10ft doesn't work reliably
20:00.36lbtOK - so long as it's not just me
20:00.37Stskeepsi have my tablet like a meter from my AP and it's at 3/5 bars
20:00.50Stskeepslbt: try fiddle with iwconfig and see if that solves anything
20:00.59lbtI'm in the same room and it won't connect unless I walk over to the AP
20:01.06lbt'k
20:01.07johnxStskeeps, don't trust what nm-applet says too much...
20:01.15dystopiaStskeeps: you need to put it out of its faraday cage ;-)
20:01.24Stskeepsjohnx: true
20:01.42Anunakinelekt: Look here http://anunakin.blogspot.com/  ... I ported.. Flashback and Out of This World...
20:02.00elektty
20:02.12elektchecking
20:02.55Stskeepsjohnx: i don't understand why a bloody wifi applet uses 15% memory anyway :P
20:03.13johnxStskeeps, aaah...that's probably the other reason I stayed away :/
20:03.22johnxa lot of it is probably shared libs though
20:03.37johnxI'm really looking forward to better xip support in linux
20:03.45Stskeepsxip?
20:03.50johnxexecute in place
20:03.53Stskeepsah
20:04.40johnxI imagine Nokia is looking forward to it as well :D
20:06.29dystopiaStskeeps: one other thing, what is the standard on services these days?
20:06.54Stskeepsdystopia: no clue.. ircservices are okay, but thats not relevant to this channel :P
20:06.59Stskeepsand atheme
20:07.30elektAnunakin what's thename of the process for reminiscence
20:07.43Stskeepsjohnx: looks like a specialized page fault handler really.. i thought stuff like this was already implemented to some degree with COW stuff
20:07.57elekti switched to desktop an now i can't get back
20:08.35*** join/#maemo mk500 (n=mk500@netblock-72-25-104-105.dslextreme.com)
20:08.39johnxStskeeps, I know it existed to some degree. I just heard positive mumblings recently and got interested/hopeful again :)
20:13.41*** join/#maemo Guest74858 (n=AngieQ@dpc6746187014.direcpc.com)
20:16.16dystopiaright.. pm just never works well on this network :>
20:17.45*** join/#maemo p| (n=pi@62.13.169.90)
20:18.43*** join/#maemo behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
20:23.39lbtStskeeps: std deblet ... E: Couldn't find package nit-env-lxde
20:24.25johnxlbt, when is your deblet install from?
20:24.38lbtmmm - 2 weeks ago
20:24.46lbtI did an update
20:24.55lbtmaybe a touch longer
20:25.05Stskeepslbt: upgrade_deblet
20:25.46Stskeeps(it rebuilds the repo)
20:25.53lbtsvn: OPTIONS of 'http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/installerdeb': could not connect to server (http://trac.tspre.org)
20:26.06lbtand  /usr/sbin/upgrade_deblet: line 5: cd: installerdeb/usr/libexec/deblet: No such file or directory
20:26.14lbt;(
20:26.17Stskeepsno net connection?
20:26.29lbtyes  - update and apt were OK
20:26.40GeneralAntilleslol? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=221283&postcount=28
20:27.31Stskeepslbt: restarting apache..
20:28.06*** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-42-12.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net)
20:28.07lbtsay "when"
20:28.12Stskeepsnow
20:28.12Stskeeps:P
20:28.16johnxGeneralAntilles, I agree with his *idea* actually...but I think his *services* might be a little overkill...
20:28.33lbtsame problem - do I need to clean up?
20:28.36GeneralAntillesI just wish somebody had brought it up 2 months ago.
20:28.52Stskeepslbt: telnet trac.tspre.org 80 doesnt work?
20:29.04GeneralAntillesI was mostly too focused on getting enough inertia behind the plan to care about voting methods.
20:29.36lbtgimme a sec - an apt-get update was OK a few mins ago...
20:29.43johnxGeneralAntilles, I think it doesn't really matter in this case.
20:29.54lbtodd
20:30.21*** join/#maemo CptLaptop (n=none@unaffiliated/cptnodegard)
20:30.40lbtit's working now
20:31.13Stskeepsk
20:31.36lbtthere was a 'no route to host' moment
20:31.41lbtbut I was ssh'ed in
20:31.52lbtand IRC was OK
20:32.14lbtsigh: No space left on device
20:32.27*** join/#maemo krau_ (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132)
20:32.40lbtrootfs                2.0G  799M  1.1G  42% /
20:33.02lbtis that supposed to run whilst booted into deblet?
20:33.07lbtor from maemo?
20:33.59zhaozhouSeems to be missing the python module named 'hildon' for mindmap... python2.5-module-hildon will fix this, right? Or do i need the -dev-package? Been awhile since i ran anything debian-based...
20:34.02Stskeepsyeah, within deblet
20:34.17Stskeepsi dont have a chroot version yet
20:34.32lbthttp://pastebin.com/d12079c1d
20:34.38*** join/#maemo AngieQ (n=AngieQ@dpc6746187014.direcpc.com)
20:34.45lmourazhaozhou, python2.5-hildon?
20:34.53Stskeepsyou ran it on maemo? :P
20:34.57lbtno
20:35.00lbtdeblet
20:35.14zhaozhoulmoura, ah, yes, right. :-)
20:35.51Stskeepslbt: eh.. that's odd, what's your /tmp like?
20:36.15lbtsupertiny
20:36.17Stskeepsas in, it there a tmpfs on it?
20:36.19Stskeepsmmk
20:36.21lbtoverflow              1.0M   12K 1012K   2% /tmp
20:36.23lbtand
20:36.30lbtnone                  1.0M   12K 1012K   2% /tmp
20:36.34Stskeepslovely
20:36.40lbtspooky
20:36.54Stskeepscould you pastebin /proc/mounts for me?
20:37.16lbthttp://pastebin.com/d7132b341
20:37.21lbtI was doing just that :)
20:37.31*** join/#maemo tmerle (n=tmerle@lns-bzn-27-82-248-27-66.adsl.proxad.net)
20:37.45lbtFWIW I haven't meddled with deblet
20:38.04lbtand I don't *think* I played with linuxrc/initfs
20:38.10Stskeepsyeah.. think there's some oddity in the mountoverflowtmp stuff
20:38.36*** part/#maemo tmerle (n=tmerle@lns-bzn-27-82-248-27-66.adsl.proxad.net)
20:38.50lbtso does it need debugging or just barging past ?
20:40.08Stskeepsdpkg -l dash
20:40.21lbtno
20:40.58Stskeepsmmkay
20:41.17Stskeepsponders
20:41.21lbtFWIW it looks like I installed on 23 August
20:41.22Stskeepsrestart deblet? :P
20:41.38lbtsorry, you mean win-deblet
20:42.02Stskeepswell it only mounts an overflow if there's not enough space in /tmp.. which is odd
20:42.23lbttmp was mounted on tmpfs which I don't need
20:42.33Stskeeps*nod*
20:42.33lbtsince I have 2Gb on ext3 on SD
20:42.39*** join/#maemo Maur (n=dekarita@d154-20-85-105.bchsia.telus.net)
20:42.51lbtbut I left it all as 'standard'
20:43.08RST38h"The brushtail possum, described as being "as big as a fat cat", went on a two-hour rampage after attacking a friend of the family."
20:43.35Khertan_n810hum
20:43.47Stskeepslbt: you boot through linuxrc (the bootmenu patches) or not?
20:44.13Khertan_n810will vote for community member which will ban darius from itt and dev mailing list
20:44.34johnxStskeeps, you were still using the old method around 8/23, right?
20:44.36RST38hvote for darius himself!
20:44.40Stskeepsjohnx: probably
20:45.03GeneralAntillesKhertan_n810, I would if I could.
20:45.16GeneralAntillesI CAN keep #maemo safe, though. :D
20:46.12lbtI do
20:46.16Stskeepshmm
20:46.44lbtand both /tmp are there on bootup
20:47.11Stskeepsi'd say a reboot would be in order since it only happens when /tmp directory has not enough space.. and i think df -h might have been tricked or something
20:47.27Stskeeps(see /etc/init.d/mountoverflowtmp)
20:47.31RST38hRight, invite darius here
20:47.52lbtI have just rebooted
20:47.55Stskeepsk
20:47.59RST38hMake fun of him, then kick him repeatedly, then ban him so that he channels his energy into trying to hack into this channel
20:48.10lbtand they are in /proc/mounts and mount -h
20:48.18RST38hThis will keep him busy
20:48.20Stskeepslbt: with overflow still?
20:48.30*** join/#maemo errordeveloper (n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
20:48.44lbtyes
20:48.44Stskeepslbt: could you pastebin your /etc/init.d/boot-basics?
20:49.37lbthttp://pastebin.com/d69fe5344
20:50.55Stskeepsrm /etc/mtab and see if that helps any
20:50.57*** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@cpc1-oldh7-0-0-cust232.manc.cable.ntl.com)
20:51.01Stskeepsthere might have been a leftover from old booting
20:51.13Stskeeps(need reboot)
20:51.21lbtyep
20:51.24lbtinit 6
20:52.24Stskeepssometimes it's really amazing how unix systems can get confused
20:52.27lbtit says mounting emergenvy tmp...
20:54.04Stskeepsworkaround: edit /etc/default/mountoverflowtmp , insert MINTMPKB=0
20:55.38*** join/#maemo setuid0 (n=setuid0@180.231-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
20:56.07lbtwell, no difference removing /etc/mtab
20:56.49Stskeepsafter workaround please do df -kP /tmp |grep -v Filesystem :P
20:57.42lbtok
20:57.59setuid0wow, 291 users on #maemo...
20:58.25setuid0is this usual?
20:58.31lbt230 are always asleep - it's weird
20:58.37setuid0ic
20:58.53Veggennot so weird.
20:58.53Stskeepsthe silent community
20:58.54Stskeeps:P
20:58.59setuid0first time here, so i'm asking
20:59.12VeggenI stay here almost always, but sometimes, time for IRC is *extremely* limited.
20:59.32setuid0well, most have DO have a life :-)
20:59.39setuid0most ppl*
21:01.08setuid0this must be a classic question but i'm really surprised there's no bash on my new n810...
21:01.16*** join/#maemo dougt (n=dougt@c-67-164-43-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
21:01.21lbtit's not hard to get
21:01.28lbtbut by default it's busybox
21:01.33setuid0is there a good reason for that?
21:01.36setuid0yes
21:01.38lbtsize
21:01.42*** join/#maemo inz (i=inz@maemo-hackers.org)
21:01.53lbtmost of the time busybox is just fine
21:02.08lbtI loaded bash :)
21:02.17lbt"hi" btw :)
21:02.39setuid0does it support .busyboxrc scripts?
21:02.42lbtnone                       512        12       500       3% /tmp
21:02.49setuid0hi, mate!
21:03.21setuid0well, a .profile might do, after all
21:03.40johnxbecomes user 231 to head to sleep
21:03.47setuid0lol
21:04.38GeneralAntillessetuid0, boot time.
21:04.49GeneralAntillesbash'd increase bootup rather significantly.
21:05.07lbtStskeeps: none                       512        12       500       3% /tmp
21:06.08Stskeepslbt: okay. what about /boot?
21:06.19*** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@host-84-9-53-138.dslgb.com)
21:06.30lbtno /boot
21:06.33setuid0it's an ARM 920T @ 400 MHz on my tablet, that shouldn't be too much of an issue, i suppose
21:06.46lbtwait
21:07.08GeneralAntillessetuid0, ~15-30 seconds
21:07.14lbtrootfs                 2063536    817412   1141300      42% /
21:07.17GeneralAntillesSize is an issue, too.
21:07.35GeneralAntillesThe tablets have an OMAP2420
21:08.02Stskeepslbt: okay. how about your linuxrc?
21:08.18setuid0GeneralAnt: wow! that's really long
21:08.46lbtyes, it's there....
21:09.03lbtit has        mount -t tmpfs none -o size=512K /tmp
21:09.05GeneralAntillessetuid0, yeah, they didn't use BusyBox for no reason. :)
21:09.09GeneralAntillesbash2 is available from Extras anyway.
21:09.22Stskeepslbt: /linuxrc in deblet?
21:09.36GeneralAntillesbtw, the OMAP2420 is ARM11, not ARM9. :)
21:09.52GeneralAntillesFor anybody using DUMMY connections: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3306#c30
21:09.59lbtah, that linuxrc
21:10.15lbthmm
21:10.23setuid0GeneralAnt: thanks for the info! i really feel like a noob and don't want to troll on this chan
21:11.06setuid0GeneralAnt: r u a programmer, btw?
21:11.11GeneralAntillesNo, not really.
21:11.31GeneralAntillessetuid0, make things easy on yourself. Type: Gen<tab>
21:12.00lbtStskeeps: is it picking up the wrong rc?
21:12.47Stskeepslbt: nah, im just wondering where the 512k /tmp comes from.. if the boot item has ITEM_LINUXRC="linuxrc" it shouldn't do that
21:12.59lbtit does
21:13.03lbtI just checked
21:13.19Stskeepsgrep transfer_ /mnt/initfs/bootmenu.sh
21:13.24lbtI'm reading the initfs linuxrc to remind myself how they chain
21:13.53lbtin bootmenu.sh b4 returning
21:14.14lbt(that's there BTW)
21:14.43*** join/#maemo croppa (n=stuart@135.27.233.220.exetel.com.au)
21:15.02lbtdoes exec work?
21:15.52setuid0GeneralAnt: which text editor do ppl usually use on their tablets? i see nokia were nice enough to include vi but without a full keyboard, it feels a bit awkward to say the least
21:16.08lbtssh
21:16.43lbtfriends don't let friends type on N8x0s
21:17.06Stskeepslbt: does the /linuxrc export DEBLET_something?
21:17.24lbtexport DEBLET_RUN_FROM_LINUXRC="1"
21:17.38Stskeepsk
21:18.03Stskeepsis /etc/rcS.d/*boot-basics there?
21:18.11lbtand this is the bit that puts the 'centred' text up
21:18.16lbtwhich I see at boot time
21:18.26lbtso it appears to be executing that bit
21:18.48Stskeepsyeah.. so linuxrc is fine
21:19.14lbtS04
21:19.38crashanddiesetuid0, ssh into your NIT, bluetooth keyboard, n810 allows you to do some stuff
21:19.43crashanddiesetuid0, there's plenty of options
21:20.08qwerty12_N800setuid0: I like leafpad (hildonised too)
21:20.34Stskeepslbt: is it +x?
21:21.19lbtno
21:21.32Stskeepswell that's the problem then
21:22.15Stskeepsone of my bad svns had non +x so
21:22.21lbtaims a rocket launcher at Stskeeps
21:22.49Stskeepssorry
21:22.50Stskeeps:P
21:22.59qwerty12_N800then drops it when he realises it's too big for him
21:23.02qwerty12_N800:p
21:23.22lbtpresses trigger. Stskeeps is lucky that it's running deblet....
21:23.47*** join/#maemo solmumaha (n=solmis@BSN-95-241-94.static.dsl.siol.net)
21:23.49lbtrebooting now.... :)
21:24.10lbtah
21:24.21lbtthat fixed my NetworkManager problems :)
21:24.36setuid0right, i found leafpad in the repository
21:24.40lbtwas going to mention them next...
21:24.57lbtsetuid0: try Shopper .... for all your supermarket needs...
21:24.59qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: btw, i migrated all my initfs changes to your initfs, i really like your .item system :)
21:25.08lbtavailable now in extras-devel
21:25.51setuid0why not, i've still got plenty of room on my tablet
21:26.18*** join/#maemo earksiinni (n=ersin@c-71-206-36-151.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
21:26.25lbt(let me know of any bugs - there's a tracker in garage...)
21:26.27earksiinnihi everyone
21:26.44lbtStskeeps: that looks saner.... updating now...
21:26.54earksiinnicould someone help me out with usb host mode and connecting a usb 2.0 hub?
21:27.08lbtlinux host?
21:27.09*** join/#maemo CptLaptop (n=none@unaffiliated/cptnodegard)
21:27.49earksiinnii've recompiled the kernel without the otg whitelist and reflashed but for some reason my n800 won't recognize the hub
21:28.00earksiinnii've tried powering it and unpowering it, still nothing
21:28.12lbtwhat kernel?
21:28.28earksiinniuname -r reports 2.6.21-omap1
21:28.33earksiinni(on the tablet)
21:28.34lbtOh, sorry, I misunderstood
21:28.35Stskeepsearksiinni: did you enable usb host mode? :P
21:28.39earksiinniyep
21:28.46Stskeeps(in musb_hdrc or something)
21:28.52earksiinniyep yep
21:28.52Stskeepsis the hub powered?
21:29.03earksiinniyes, but i tried it both powered and unpowered
21:29.19qwerty12_N800what does dmesg say?
21:29.43earksiinnier, i'm not entirely sure...whenever i run "dmesg" it's blank, and "dmesg -c" returns something different each time
21:30.07crashanddielcuk I LUVVVZZZ IIIIIUUUUUUUU
21:30.20lcukpardon?
21:30.24earksiinni(lawl)
21:30.31crashanddiehttp://www.myspaceclipart.com/sexyanimations/acuteanimaltwenty.jpg
21:30.46ToyKeeperHeh, nice.  "ls: ./foo.iso: Value too large for defined data type"
21:31.20earksiinnii can say this though
21:31.43Stskeepslbt: i recommend a apt-get dist-upgrade :P
21:31.47*** join/#maemo thopiekar (n=Thomas@p57A13A01.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:31.52crashanddieok, let's get this done with
21:32.01crashanddiewho here works at Nokia in Finland?
21:32.03lbtnot deblet_update?
21:32.05qwerty12_N800earksiinni: if it's a power problem, the patch here may be of some use: http://dvbh.kilu.de/
21:32.10*** part/#maemo thopiekar (n=Thomas@p57A13A01.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:32.12earksiinnione time when i plugged in my hub (powered) "dmesg -c" reported something like "tusb_source_power 633: VBUS a_wait_vrise, devctl 81 otg 184 conf c0010001 prcm 00a80500"
21:32.22qwerty12_N800earksiinni: n810?
21:32.37earksiinnino, n800
21:32.57solmumahausing usbcontrol?
21:33.03qwerty12_N800hmm, not the musb hanging bug then
21:33.22earksiinnii tried with both usbcontrol and just doing it from the terminal
21:33.23Stskeepslbt: upgrade_deblet just updates the local repo, apt-get dist-upgrade actually upgrades :P
21:33.32earksiinniqwerty: musb hanging bug, you say?
21:33.34Stskeeps(the packages installed)
21:33.59qwerty12_N800earksiinni: it only affects n810 according to the fix creator
21:34.04lbtok - dist-upgrading then...
21:35.44earksiinnii see
21:35.48earksiinniwell, any other ideas?
21:35.54*** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@148.84-49-135.nextgentel.com)
21:36.14qwerty12_N800tried that patch to remove the power check?
21:36.36GeneralAntillescrashanddie, they usually aren't that forward.
21:36.39earksiinnilol alright one sec
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21:42.29ToyKeeperwonders YTF the user is UID 29999 instead of a more typical 1000
21:43.14StskeepsToyKeeper: 999 is 666 turned upside down. the 29 are just to get it above 1000.
21:43.29*** join/#maemo CptLaptop (n=none@unaffiliated/cptnodegard)
21:44.59ToyKeeperSo much for using numeric IDs with nfs/rsync...  I suppose I could chown everything, though.
21:46.13*** join/#maemo error_developer_ (n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
21:47.50lbtI hate Samsung
21:48.16earksiinninope, didn't work
21:48.17GeneralAntilleslikes Samsung.
21:48.23RST38hEverybody does. But Semsung does not care.
21:48.29RST38hhttp://www.submiturpics.com/images/722dq4e2y755om12esn.jpg
21:48.29lbtI bought 9 1Tb disks
21:48.37RST38h[in the meanwhile]
21:48.44lbtin june
21:48.56lbtI now have a list of 18 serial numbers
21:49.02GeneralAntillesRST38h, he your new hero?
21:49.09lbt11 failures
21:49.26earksiinniqwerty12_N800: i tried the patch, no dice
21:49.34*** join/#maemo adjam (n=adjam@host125-70-dynamic.1-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
21:49.46lbtsorry, 13 failures
21:50.03qwerty12_N800earksiinni: :(, is the hub actually working?
21:50.15earksiinniyeah, i tested it on my laptop
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21:50.30earksiinnibrand new
21:50.46RST38hGA: Of course not
21:50.49*** join/#maemo briatx (i=user@realize.ucsd.edu)
21:50.56lcuklbt, yeah, its thanks to you we now have warnings on the drives: "Not to be used internally" :D :P
21:50.58RST38hGA: How could I betray the Cthulhu? =)
21:51.15GeneralAntilleslbt, try a different brand? :P
21:51.28lcukagreed, thats a shockingly bad survival rate
21:51.38GeneralAntillesBetter yet, ship them back to Samsung's RMA department filled with feces.
21:51.40RST38hlbt: The morale of this story is that you should always look for failure reports on the Net before buying 9 HDs
21:51.51earksiinniwhoa hold on
21:51.59earksiinnidmesg is now working for some reason
21:52.01GeneralAntillesMy experience with Samsung is limited to their LCDs and their cellphones.
21:52.05GeneralAntillesWhich has been overwhelmingly good
21:52.06lbtback then they weren't so bad
21:52.17RST38hGA: Their digital cameras are shit
21:52.19GeneralAntillesI can't say that I would buy one of their drives, though.
21:52.21lbtbut they are the only company in the UK to do advance-replacements
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21:52.35GeneralAntillesRST38h, yeah, well, I'd never buy anything but Canon or Nikon.
21:52.43RST38hbtw I have a Samsung HD in HTPC and it still works after a few years
21:52.46lcuklbt, as with lots of tech, pushing things to the extremes and being on the bleeding edge isnt as rewarding as hanging back a little
21:52.54RST38hGA: Casio is an ok compact
21:52.58lbtI needed the space...
21:53.07RST38hGA: Not much different from the same-sized Canon, given the same sensor
21:53.12earksiinniqwerty12_n800: i'm getting some error messages in dmesg about musb
21:53.22lcukyou still do, but now you know the courier intimately
21:53.25GAN800Canon just replaced our S500 with an SD850IS for free
21:53.34RST38hOlympus is also ok (non DSLR, of course)
21:53.40lbthowever, having had 11 (I double checked) disk failures, I haven't lost any data (yet) thanks to linux raid
21:53.45lcukjust send your backups to irc
21:53.49RST38hGA: What happened with S500?
21:53.52GAN800CCD was prone to failure in high-humidity environments
21:53.58RST38hOh
21:54.00lcukrecovery is available in scrollback
21:54.08GAN800Started outputting garbage.
21:54.09qwerty12_N800earksiinni: I probably won't be able to decipher them :)
21:54.11earksiinni<PROTECTED>
21:54.12RST38hnot uncommon though
21:54.22lbtthey replaced my IS S1 with an IS S5 recently too
21:54.28earksiinnioh, just wondering if it might have been related to that musb bug you mentioned
21:54.36GAN800Have an Olympus C-3030 zoom from way back when
21:54.37lbtccd problem
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21:54.48RST38his considering buying a G9 but having doubts
21:54.48lcuklbt, what kind of cabinet are you storing these in - is it optimum
21:54.57lbtDell servers
21:55.00RST38hSame small noisy sensor as in compacts
21:55.04lbt4 in each
21:55.10GAN800I almost upgraded th S500 to a refurbed Rebel XT for $275
21:55.12lbtno heat issues
21:55.16qwerty12_N800earksiinni: the dma is buggy on the tablet, it may be worth disabling it
21:55.21lcukcool :) literally
21:55.41GAN800G9 is close enough to DSLR that I would just take the leap.
21:55.58teamcobrad'oh, deblet won't boot, it reboots itself instead :/
21:56.03earksiinniqwerty12_N800: does that have negative side effects?  slower speed?
21:56.03GAN800I've already got an XTi, though and my mother still wanted a compact.
21:56.05lbtLifetime    Max Temperature:         39 Celsius
21:56.06RST38hGAN: That is most unfortunate part
21:56.07lcukhave you put it down to bad luck or are you looking for alternatives?
21:56.13lbtsmartctl -l scttempsts /dev/sdb
21:56.26qwerty12_N800earksiinni: yep, slower speeds :(
21:56.29RST38hGAN: G9 has got decent optics, decent controls, etc. but behind all that is a noisy little 12mpx sensor
21:56.31lcukyou haven't got feiserfs on them have you?
21:56.36lbtI have them now - so I'm asking Samsung to replace them with enterprise drives
21:56.37earksiinni=(
21:56.38lbtno
21:56.39lbtxfs
21:56.40*** join/#maemo yury_usa (n=ivant@ool-4350e9b3.dyn.optonline.net)
21:56.44RST38hGAN: And if you look at samples it really shows :(
21:56.45yury_usahi folks
21:56.46lbtI used to work for SGI :)
21:56.52lcukgood, cos ive heard that can kill the drives
21:56.56teamcobrahi yury
21:57.03lbtsick
21:57.04yury_usamaybe someone could help me with this.. I'm trying to refresh update list on my N770
21:57.06teamcobralcuk: *rimshot*
21:57.15yury_usaI get a message "Unable to refresh list.."
21:57.38GAN800s/N770/770/g
21:57.50lcuk..too much slash
21:57.50yury_usahuh?
21:58.33earksiinniqwerty12_N800: what exactly does your patch do?  remove the 200mA power restriction?
21:58.38yury_usait has Tablet OS 2006 installed, so I dont see "log" in tools menu
21:58.46GAN800yury_usa, you've probably got a bad repo in your list.
21:58.48Stskeepslbt: did it succeed?
21:58.59yury_usaGAN800, how do I get rid of it?
21:59.03lbtdon't do a dist-upgrade over ssh :(
21:59.03GAN800run apt-get update in xterm.
21:59.10lbtRestarting network connection manager: NetworkManager
21:59.12lbtd'oh
21:59.17qwerty12_N800earksiinni: oh, it's not my patch but it disables the pwr check
21:59.43yury_usaGAN800, do I need root acc?
21:59.57earksiinnihmm
21:59.58GAN800~root-access
21:59.59infobot[root-access] http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access
22:00.12GAN800Or just start disabling repos until it works.
22:00.18qwerty12_N800never put rootsh in a 06 repo
22:00.28Stskeepslbt: yeah, ran into that one too :P
22:00.37lbtso no wifi atm
22:00.56yury_usau mean uninstalling, cuz I cant disable them in OS 2006
22:01.29GeneralAntillesUrg
22:01.41GeneralAntillesThink of this as an opportunity to upgrade to OS2007 or OS2008 HE?
22:01.54yury_usawhere can I get it?
22:02.05GeneralAntilles~flashing
22:02.06infobotwell, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
22:02.17yury_usahmm
22:03.48lbtStskeeps: is that the last thing?
22:03.55Stskeepslbt: yeah
22:03.58lbtapt-get install -f says nothing to do
22:04.01lbtso a reboot?
22:04.04Stskeepsyup
22:04.14Stskeepsthen you should be up to date
22:04.24lbtwindeblet
22:04.38Stskeepswell this is just because i dont want to list what services to restart :P
22:04.53Stskeepsand there's fixes to the boot scripts
22:05.20lbtI restarted network-manager but yeah, init 6 is easier
22:05.28lbttum te tum
22:10.33yury_usaone question, if I flash to 2008HE will I lose all files except the ones on memory card?
22:10.41GeneralAntillesYes
22:10.47GeneralAntillesI believe the wiki article covers that at the top.
22:10.55yury_usamost importantly I wanna keep all the bookmarks and rss feeds
22:17.00lbtStskeeps: http://pastebin.com/d6d5414e
22:17.27Stskeepseh.
22:17.31lbtI've dist-upgraded, rebooted, deblet_upgraded, updated and installes
22:17.41lbts/les/led/
22:18.10Stskeepsis it in /nit-repository/binary?
22:18.35Stskeepsoh, lemme guess, you used nit-env-stskeeps before?
22:18.43lbtyes
22:19.00Stskeepsapt-get install tablet-gdm-autologin first, and let's see if that works
22:19.07Stskeeps(i so look forward to be getting rid of nit-env-stskeeps)
22:19.25qwerty12_N800rejoices
22:19.54*** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@147.17.168.202-static.velocitynet.com.au)
22:20.06lbtdoes it tend to freeze over ssh when the backlight dims
22:20.35Stskeepsyeah, it's part of wifi powersave that works now cos you have dsme sockets from /tmp -> /boot
22:20.55Stskeepsyou can adjust it with set_dim_something 300 600 and it's more tolerable
22:20.59Stskeepsor kill wifi powersave
22:22.18lbtiwconfig wlan0 power off
22:23.22Stskeepsnah, you need to kill the process that listens to activity
22:24.02lbtok
22:24.54Stskeepsit intensely increases battery life, so :P
22:25.00Stskeepsbut yes, it is a bit irritating while sshing in
22:26.00teamcobraStskeeps, I am in gnome! and it's kinda tripping me out to see gnome on such a small device ;)
22:27.08Stskeepsteamcobra: hehe
22:27.13Stskeepsteamcobra: kde3 exists too
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22:29.59teamcobranow I just have to get network-manager working, it seems
22:30.09Stskeepsnm-applet should run
22:33.20teamcobrayup, gotta run it as root, but it did start up
22:35.15teamcobraand just connected w/ wep :) amazing
22:35.55teamcobraStskeeps, 1 minor usability quirk though.... crtl doesn't map to crtl, it seems... other than that, I'm still picking my jaw off of the floor
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22:37.44Stskeepsteamcobra: feel free to figure out how to fix it :P
22:38.01Stskeepsdoesn't own a n810 so
22:38.24teamcobraahh, then I shall toy w/ it :)
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22:39.19Stskeepsit's prolly a xmodmap issue
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22:47.30GeneralAntillesMaybe a stupid question, but can I setup a toolchain that might work for the Beagle in Deblet?
22:48.46Stskeepsit's both armel isn't it? just apt-get build-essential :P
22:48.54*** join/#maemo __t1 (n=t@port-92-195-38-217.dynamic.qsc.de)
22:49.05Stskeepsapt-get install build-essential
22:49.08Stskeepsgcc, make, all that stuff :P
22:49.22GeneralAntillesI'm suffering with a kernel that, apparently, has broken OTG support
22:49.32GeneralAntillesand can't get ahold of a pre-compiled kernel that's not broken
22:51.22*** join/#maemo __t (n=t@port-92-195-38-217.dynamic.qsc.de)
22:51.44Stskeepsshould be possible to build just fine
22:51.56lbt'night all
22:52.06lbt(thanks for the help Stskeeps
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22:52.15Stskeepsnini
22:53.01*** join/#maemo qwerty12-N800 (n=faheem@host-84-9-54-89.dslgb.com)
22:53.40Stskeepsoff as well, battery running out :P
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22:57.12teamcobranight stskeeps
22:57.18teamcobrabrb, rebooting my router
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23:03.53*** join/#maemo Syntux (n=Jad@ubuntu/member/syntux)
23:04.15SyntuxI'm trying to setup my Google Apps domain with gtalk on n800, does anybody know what's the settings to get it running ?
23:08.24Robot101Syntux: does it not work if you select google talk and enter in your own address?
23:08.37Robot101or does it only let you set @gmail.com or @googlemail.com?
23:09.05SyntuxRobot101, no it doesn't, I picked jabber for that to use my own domain
23:09.08Robot101if so, select Jabber and go to Advanced, put Connect Server as talk.google.com, Use Old SSL, and port 5223
23:09.21Syntuxlemme try that
23:09.28Robot101I think thats where the hosted domains are too
23:09.43Robot101otherwise take a look at host -t SRV _xmpp-client._tcp.yourdomain.com
23:09.45Robot101and see what it says
23:09.48Robot101anyway, gotta go
23:11.19SyntuxRobot101, lovely, thank you ;-)
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23:30.24robinkShould I be using Claws if I want PGP support in an e-mail client for Maemo?
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23:30.41robinkPGP support isn't critical for me (especially on a mobile platform), but I was curious...
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