IRC log for #maemo on 20080831

00:26.46*** join/#maemo Kliment (i=kliment@xob.kapsi.fi)
00:27.06KlimentHello.
00:28.16KlimentI'm playing around with Python on my 770, and while my applications run, they don't show up in the running applications list and so I cannot switch to them.
00:28.28KlimentAny ideas what could cause this?
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00:32.57yacoobHm... what's the name of the clock plugin from the screenshots here? http://adv-backlight.garage.maemo.org/
00:33.49GAN800Tey mouse over? :)
00:33.57GAN800It's in the tooltip. ;)
00:34.47yacoobgaaa :D
00:35.51KlimentI believe yacoob was referring to the one in the screenshots underneath. Is that the same app?
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00:39.36GAN800Large Statusbar Clock
00:39.46GAN800only available for OS2008
00:48.04lcukGeneralAntilles, is it possible for me to up the virtual memory on my machine, or do i have to move to mmapped files (that you know of)
00:50.49GAN800Which machine?
00:51.10lcukmy 810
00:52.14GAN800Higher than 128MB is pointless.
00:52.14GAN800You'll end up slowing the system to a crawl at that point.
00:52.44lcukits ok, i dont need it - it wasnt enabled in diablo, i forgot id reformatted and thought i was getting memory errors for no reason
00:52.58lcukbut now diablo is tellin me it cant create any
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01:41.13wasabiman, the nokia media streamer sucks pretty bad
01:45.26GAN800Use Canola
01:45.44wasabiit's not a gupnp controller
01:45.46wasabialso it refuses to start
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05:26.50rm_youpractices bartending
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06:16.34pupnik_lol i dreamed about Quim Gil last night.  He wanted me to do something and i can't remember what.
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06:17.07pupnik_(sorry Quim)
06:20.14GAN8001Ha
06:20.26GAN8001I dreamed about sjgasdby's glasses.
06:20.32GAN8001It was a Maemo night.
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06:28.52JaffaMorning, all
06:29.51GAN8001Hey, Jaffa.
06:31.38GAN8001pupnik_, I'm playing with the Beagle you never got me video of. :P
06:32.24rm_youGA got a beagleboard? :P
06:33.07pupnik_he got impatient and wanted to experience the omap3 hotness
06:33.12rm_you^_^
06:33.19rm_youomap3 *is* the new hotness
06:33.33rm_youGAN8001: how is the video playback? managed to test it yet?
06:33.40rm_youis there an mplayer build?
06:33.58rm_youGAN8001: get ssh on it and set me up an account so I can ssh in and build you apps :P
06:37.04GAN8001No
06:37.09GAN8001Building a serial cable at the moment
06:37.27GAN8001Since, somehow, I don't have one of the most common serial connectors ever anywhere in my boxes and boxes of cables.
06:37.39GAN8001There's mplayer
06:37.46GAN8001with NEON optimizations
06:38.00GAN8001and an omapfb decoder they use for the 720p demos.
06:38.27GAN8001Broke out a null modem cable I had lying around
06:38.38GAN8001Connecting the wires up now.
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06:39.48GAN8001rm_you, I need to get an SDIO wifi card or a USB something or other
06:49.27rm_youah
07:01.26pupnik_when society collapses, it will be nice to have the n810/n9x0/pandora and a little solar panel
07:01.41pupnik_just for a reminder of the good ol days
07:05.58GAN8001OK, my manual cable is total fail.
07:06.10GAN8001I guess I gotta go scrounge for a real cable in the morning.
07:06.39rm_youI have like 5! :P
07:06.41rm_you... >_>
07:07.17GAN8001Best Buy carries them still, don't they?
07:07.27rm_you<_< no promises
07:07.31GAN8001Actually, I should probably stop by my old job
07:07.49GAN8001There's, like, a whole room full of dead PCs that'll most all have what I'm after.
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07:08.46pupnik_wipes the spiders from his eyes
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07:10.04rm_youjust need a standard RS232 serial cable?
07:10.32pupniki connected a VT100 to a NeXT with speaker wire once
07:10.57pupnikthe good ol days...
07:11.10rm_youi've made network cables with... well... rj45 ends, a crimper, and a random spool of wire i had laying around... <_<
07:11.16pupnikhehe
07:11.28rm_youit'
07:11.37rm_youit's annoying when it's all the same color wire
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07:17.14GAN8001rm_you, http://www.pccables.com/07120.htm
07:19.12pupnik'laid back'...
07:20.34GAN8001Until later.
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07:42.52moontigerdoes the n810 cache home screen applets in memory? i delete the executable file for one but it still shows up when i re-select it from the menu :|
07:44.46qwerty12now knows why text completion is disabled in the terminal in os2008. despite the obvious fact it's an annoyance in the terminal :/
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07:53.08Stskeepsand i wonder why nokia in all their glory didn't simply include in a hook for onscreen keyboard in GTK instead of requiring it must be hildonized
07:54.25qwerty12I know, hildon-input-method is PITA but TBH we (well, not me as I sux at this) can actually do something about it as the code is actually open.
07:54.32qwerty12gasps in horror at nokia
07:55.10Stskeepsi'd rather stab myself in the eye than touch gtk code
07:55.10Stskeeps:P
07:55.37qwerty12lol :P
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08:00.33qwerty12takes a look into the vte 256 colours stuff, I can't believe inz didn't realise bright black was messed up on his screenshot when he announced it :/
08:15.55pupnikthat'd be real nice qwerty12
08:16.04pupnikit's been bugged for many months
08:20.21qwerty12Hopefully, this works :)
08:20.33qwerty12Just need to wait for it to compile
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08:22.05qwerty12has a new found hate for the context diff format in the process
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08:47.28qwerty12I've managed to get it even more worse :P. http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/5546/screenshot05zo6.png >.<
08:47.34qwerty12lemme try again
08:49.30pupniklol
08:49.46pupnikyou heard my initial fix of fceu sound on youtube?
08:50.00qwerty12It's tempting to compile osso-xterm against libvte9
08:50.02qwerty12no :)
08:52.27pupnikhttp://pupnik.de/photos/Summer_Skin_Beetle_sm.html   look at my hand!
08:52.28qwerty12woah
08:52.31pupnikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Iw6D4GF2bs  fceu sound fix
08:53.23qwerty12lol, the crackling :)
08:53.50pupniki had to share it...
08:53.55pupnikfixed it up a few days later
08:54.21pupnikbut not perfectly :(
08:54.26pupnikso i gave up
08:55.09qwerty12Hehe, I once used a2dp with bundyo's mplayer rc2 and that requires a special argument for the sound output. I didn't know this so I connect my headset, put the volume on full and get a load of scratching sounds straight into my ears >.<
08:56.08qwerty12Yeah, If I can't get libvte4 to show colours properly, I may just cut my losses and move onto libvte9 (gnome-terminal here on ubuntu with libvte9 shows the colours properly)
08:57.56qwerty12I'm pretty sure it's a libvte4 fault somewhere, I've tried 2 methods of 256 colours patches and both make light black = dark black
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09:20.15sinakhello. Have anyone tried to turn the wireless mode of N800 to ad-hoc?
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10:12.23qwerty12pupnik: the vte guys are fucking laughing in my face, 29999999 compile and 9999 patches and guess what I see? " Add patch that makes bold black (color 8) dark gray instead of black."
10:12.46jottqwerty12: pupnik: my build of libvte works just fine under diablo http://sse2.net/xtermhttp://sse2.net/xterm/libvte4_0.12.2-0mh7_armel.deb
10:12.55jottand has since ages :P
10:13.02qwerty12Is the black fixed?
10:13.05jottsure
10:13.08qwerty12Great, thanks
10:13.27qwerty12fuck me, i've been messing around with so much shit and it was a one liner fix >.<
10:13.35jotthehe
10:13.55jottyeah i poked inz to backport it to the garage version.
10:14.15jottbut apparently nokia did use a completely different branch :(
10:14.58qwerty12Yeah, the garage version is much more superior to the shipped versions. I miss the reset and clear option from the menu :(
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10:15.36qwerty12But thank you very much for that :)
10:15.52jotti mean actually the garage version is supposed to be the version used on the devices as inz has his version on the maemo-hackers site..
10:16.54jottbut i could never live witout the bright black as i use it in many places ;) (prompt, irssi timestamp, etc)
10:17.34qwerty12could never live with just having a terminal environment
10:17.55jotthehe the youth... :P
10:18.20qwerty12I grew up using windows :P
10:19.30melmothAnybody having a destkopt or server running with a arm cpu ?
10:20.13qwerty12~kill nokia
10:20.13infobotACTION shoots a super-inverse photon gun at nokia
10:20.54pupnikjott, qwerty12 i tip my hat to you
10:21.03pupnikcan you guys get that stuff into main repo?
10:21.08qwerty12Heh, it's all jott's work
10:21.37qwerty12was blind and didn't notice it was fixed in trunk. When I did, jott already had it :P
10:21.40pupniki dunno who is maintainer for official osso-xterm
10:21.54pupniki'll buy you guys tasers or whatever you need
10:22.19qwerty12lol, I just get them off my friend who makes them out of disposable cameras :P
10:23.08jottpupnik: maybe we have a change to taser him at the summit :D
10:23.41jottchance..
10:23.54qwerty12I still don't see the point of SSU if it isn't being utilised to deliver fixes like this :/
10:26.01jottwell the problem with ssu is, that it is released based and unlike debian/ubuntu that just pushes backported fixed when they are ready and tested.
10:27.35jotti still wonder whom to blame for the fix not being in the release :/
10:27.43eichidoes the maemo skype works with webcam chat?
10:27.55eichiis there a way to make msn webcam chat? a way to make icq webcam chat?
10:28.35qwerty12jott: when you find them, shank them for me so this way you get arrested and not I :P
10:29.55jotteichi: skype on maemo has no video support
10:30.10jotti heread amsn supports video chat with msn but never tried it.
10:30.18jottheared
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10:30.36eichiwhat is the default protocoll for webcam chat on maemo?
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10:31.26jottgizmo is the "default" video chat app.
10:34.02jotthm gizmo still did not manage to release an updated linux desktop client ..
10:34.09sinak1736kb/s downloading!!
10:39.05qwerty12~lart gedit
10:39.05infobotpours hot grits down the front of gedit's pants
10:39.26aquatixqwerty12: use geany
10:40.10qwerty12will try, ta
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10:54.53melmothI want to generate a large (20Mb) python pickle object on armel , because the one i generate on my desktop seems not to be "unpicke-azible" on the tablet.
10:55.30melmothThe pickelisation takes 300 second on my laptop... It is running for more than an hour on my tablet. It "does not work" on scrachbox
10:55.48melmothany idea of a faster workaround (ie somebody got an linux armel box ? :) )
11:01.22melmothcrap, it crashed with 'memory error'....
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11:02.16jottmelmoth: think of a better general solution to your problem?
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11:11.43melmothjott: i have none. pickling the data is the fastet way i found to access them.
11:12.10melmothLoading the data in memory takes 10 seconds, vs 300 compared to when generated on the fly.
11:12.24melmothMay be there is another way to dump memory representation than pickle ?
11:12.33Stskeepsusing cpickle?
11:12.38melmothi use cpickle
11:13.17Stskeepsmaybe you simply run out of memory? :P
11:13.20Stskeepsusing swap?
11:13.31tuukkahshouldn't pickling be independent of the architecture
11:15.22jotthm it seems pickling supprts different protocols, may choose a version >=1
11:15.26melmothtuukkah: i am not sure, but i am sure i cannot load the pickled data on the tablet, it s complaining about an impossible float converstion.
11:17.58tuukkahthen there's qemu for arm
11:20.06Italodanceboswars can run on chinook?
11:21.57melmothtuukkah: hmmm. thats a good idea.
11:22.31Stskeepsmelmoth: there's always a possibility the python on armel has a floating point bug
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11:24.25eichiare there other ways then gizmo using video chat with maemo????
11:25.03qwerty12ffs
11:25.04qwerty12<eichi> does the maemo skype works with webcam chat?
11:25.04qwerty12<eichi> is there a way to make msn webcam chat? a way to make icq webcam chat?
11:25.04qwerty12<qwerty12> jott: when you find them, shank them for me so this way you get arrested and not I :P
11:25.04qwerty12* andre____ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:25.05qwerty12<jott> eichi: skype on maemo has no video support
11:25.06qwerty12* aloisiojr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:25.08qwerty12<jott> i heread amsn supports video chat with msn but never tried it.
11:25.10qwerty12<jott> heared
11:25.38eichithere is no amsn for maemo...
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11:26.24qwerty12http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=amsn+maemo&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-GB:unofficial&client=firefox-a
11:26.27qwerty12first result...
11:26.52qwerty12Directly... http://kakaroto.homelinux.net/~kakaroto/n810/
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11:29.56RST38bismoo, all
11:31.31qwerty12_N800moo
11:32.31RST38biswell, now i can say it
11:32.46qwerty12_N800is really enjoying befr0d's emsene port
11:32.47RST38bisintel has bought openedhand
11:32.57Stskeepsold news, came out yesterday
11:32.58Stskeeps:P
11:33.02Stskeepsor some other day
11:33.03RST38bisemsene?
11:33.47qwerty12_N800RST38bis: msn msgr client
11:34.07RST38bisah
11:34.16RST38bisno icq though?
11:36.11qwerty12_N800no
11:37.39qwerty12_N800RST38bis: btw, how come icq is so popular in Russia? all the Russians i know have an icq :)
11:38.17trenkalots of OSS developers moved to jabber
11:38.35RST38bisicq is an israeli project started by a few russian emigrants
11:39.01Stskeepsused to use icq until it went completely fucking bloated, and girls at school started using msn
11:39.04Stskeeps:P
11:39.09RST38bisalso, it was historically the first such project
11:39.23RST38bissts: pidgin.
11:39.34StskeepsRST38bis: i gave up on icq long ago, like, 3-5 years
11:39.34Stskeeps:P
11:39.44Stskeepsand gaim just generally upsets me
11:39.48RST38biswon't help about the girls of course
11:40.11RST38bisprefers irc to any of these
11:40.26Stskeepshere too, but live messenger patched with no-ads and such isn't bad :P
11:40.31RST38bisirc is the only chat system done right
11:41.10RST38biswell, msn, icq, they all look the same through pidgin
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11:49.23yacoob>_<
11:49.27yacoob3MB free on /
11:49.29yacoob8)
11:50.29RST38bistime to move your /
11:50.45yacoobrather time to move MyDocs away
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11:53.00RST38bisthat too
11:54.34yacoobit would be much better if I'd have noticed that mmc2 is vfat, not ext2...
11:56.35yacoobbefore I reflash it - how much space is free on / with a brand new shiny OS2008?
11:58.08qwerty12_N800yacoob: localepurge is nice on the tablets too
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11:58.39yacoobqwerty12_N800, :o don't tell me that people package their apps with full set of locales...?
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11:59.29qwerty12_N800yacoob: yes :/. i recovered ~25MB
11:59.34yacooboookay.
12:00.09yacoobI was going to reflash it anyway
12:00.15yacoobright now I'm trying out fennec
12:00.25yacooband it's not that fast as they promise, hm.
12:01.05*** join/#maemo foka (n=foka@221.217.3.136)
12:01.19yacoobbut it hogs CPU more than microb, so yes, it's "better".
12:01.30yacoobWhy there's no good webkit browser :(
12:02.50RST38bisbecause webkit kinda sucks, i guess...
12:03.40RST38bistried safari on a mac - ended up installing firefox
12:08.53yacoobwebkit itself, is very good browser engine
12:09.13yacoobcurrent webkit browsers - yeah, they do suck
12:13.17qwerty12_N800yacoob: here's my latest localepurge: http://pastebin.ca/1189505 :>
12:13.48yacooblovely :>
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12:15.07RST38bis190k? :)
12:16.07qwerty12_N800in this case, it's more about quantity over size :>. they pile up over time into some large amounts :/
12:23.30riotsay, is there a nice gui for gnokii or anything that one can use to operate a connected cellphone?
12:24.01qwerty12_N800phonelink
12:24.39yacoobwill test gpxviewer+maemo mapper for geocaching today.
12:25.34RST38bisok, time to wake up
12:25.55riotphonelink? hmm, tried it, not very good, imho
12:26.30qwerty12_N800alas, it's the best we got :/
12:31.08brontideok, explain this one.  I was on vacation for the last 2 weeks so excuse me if I missed somthing major.  For some reason Modest has stoped receiving updates, Application manager stoped getting updates, SIP+gtalk stoped working ( but link-local still works )
12:32.22brontideI barely used the unit over the last two weeks and only did development on one evening, but that was over a week ago
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12:33.08addochi
12:37.20riothmm, i'm considering writing a GUI for gnokii.. Anybody interested? In helping?
12:40.25addocI'd help if I were able... I could do testing
12:42.16rioti'll do it in python, so its easy. Gonna read some gui-dev-doc first :)
12:44.25addocok - I'll be hanging on irq in the next days
12:44.56addocI'm here since GeneralAntilles wrote that cool guys have to do irc
12:45.02addoc:-)
12:45.49liriqwerty12_N800: phonelink could have been so much better but the GUI is so awkward
12:47.19qwerty12_N800liri: true :/, at least it's in python so it's possible for lots of people to modify :)
12:48.32Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/2.6.27-rc4_Random_Stuff_All_Over (MUSB)
12:48.55lcukdo i have to reformat mmc1 to get my virtual memory to work in diablo?
12:49.05lcukmmc2 i mean
12:49.11brontideBah, ssh is also not working.... it seems like the networking is fubar, but the unit can still browse the web
12:50.09qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: interesting, so far our musb is broken in regards to rndis :/
12:50.24qwerty12_N800lcuk: shouldn't need to
12:50.57lcukbrontide, damn thing wont let me - i keep running out and thought i was simply using more than the 128real+128 virtual - but i forgot i reflashed
12:51.05lcukand its disabled and wont re-enable with any size
12:51.33Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: yeah, hence why i mentioned it
12:52.40lcukStskeeps, hows qt comin along
12:52.40qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: :), i think it's also worth looking at the musb in 2.6.18
12:52.45riotis there by chance any debian repository for all the SDK stuff?
12:52.50qwerty12_N800lcuk: unmount mmc2 and run a fsck on it
12:53.26lcukunmounting manually forem hte console wont cause it to not be remounted when i bootup will it?
12:53.31lcuk-typos
12:53.38qwerty12_N800lcuk: no
12:53.44Stskeepslcuk: if you're speaking of debconf and Kde, kde backend in debconf is broken, had to resort to apt-get'ing in libgnome2-perl
12:53.46*** join/#maemo Raytray (n=raytray@unaffiliated/raytray)
12:53.47lcukcool ill give it a try then :)
12:54.39Stskeeps(requires keyboard since gtk under deblet doesnt have on screen keyboard from maemo..)
12:54.44Stskeepsso it has to be a n810
12:55.01lcukStskeeps, i know all about giving up the virtual keyboard - liqbase also doesnt support it
12:55.24Stskeepsi swear, why the heck didn't they just hack gtk with im's or something..
12:55.25lcuknot that you need it for most things, but it will come in handy sometimes
12:55.29qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: bring back the ncurses during install! :p
12:55.38Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: it's an option in installer
12:55.51Stskeepsthe explosion of apps on the applet would be huge if everything didn't have to be hildonized for sane usage
12:56.03Stskeepsapplet=tablet
12:56.14Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i have a n800 so it asks between GTK frontend and Dialog
12:57.04qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: brilliant. can't  you install hildon-input-method under debian? for hildon-input-method to come up, the app needs to be gtk, not hildonised
12:57.17Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: hmm
12:57.44qwerty12_N800does enough straight compiles to know :)
12:58.12Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i'm already a bit picky due to libgnome2-perl pulling in 180mb worth, but i'll see ..
12:58.31qwerty12_N800ouch :/
12:58.49Stskeepsadmittedly this is X libraries and gtk/gnome libs, but..
12:59.46brontideok... dhcp gets an address, but nothing else seems able to use the network.  ping as root even fails to see the network
12:59.54brontideWTF
13:01.55lcukStskeeps, i tihnk the biggest drawback to apps is the apparant slowness of certain standard operations, obviously it can be cured with tlc to the app in question, but ive heard plenty of people pulling hair out to try to get things running smoothly
13:02.52lcukbrontide, i had this with my adhoc after i added a laptop, turn everything off (router included) and bring it all back up (we had a nice powercut to assist here) and it all worked after that
13:03.50brontiderebooting the device didn't work
13:04.02lcukwhat abotu the device at the other end of the connection..
13:04.32brontidehappily serving other wireless clients ( including this one ) as well as several hardwired things
13:05.12lcukheh - i dunno but mine was similar - it just refused to finish sorting out the laptop till everything had been off
13:05.22brontideand this started while I was away ( totally different wifi setup )
13:05.23lcukit worked happily with desktop and 810
13:05.33lcukoooer then you bolloxed it up :D
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13:06.15brontideI'm facing the prospect of loosing a good days worth of work on DialCentral fka Grandcentral Dialer
13:07.22qwerty12_N800can't you back it up elsewhere?
13:07.50brontideI have a recent copy on the laptop ( in the shop ) but I'm not sure how much tweaking I did on device
13:08.02brontidein prep for making a deb
13:08.38brontideHmmm worst case I can manually copy file at the terminal to the card before I reflash
13:09.52lcukbrontide, thanks for the tip - ill just backup liqbase now ;)
13:10.25brontide:-P
13:11.08lcukqwerty12_N800 unmounting fscking remounting (and rebooting) didnt help, itsn ot readonly and it lets me write files manually, it has 800mb free, and it still wont let me make virtual on it
13:11.49qwerty12_N800lcuk: that's really odd. is there already a .swap file on it?
13:12.07lcukdoes ls list things like that by default
13:12.12qwerty12_N800brontide: dump your entire flash with mtd-tools
13:12.14brontidedisabling VM appears to have fixed it
13:12.20qwerty12_N800lcuk: no, use ls -a
13:12.36lcukthanks, but no theres no swap
13:12.46lcukahhh brontide looks like we are cross solving problems ;)
13:12.56brontidedoes that mean my internal flash is bolloxed?
13:12.57lcuksince you are disabling vm, can i have yours
13:13.07riotis it possible to customize the communication-button-menu on hildon?
13:13.25qwerty12_N800lcuk: out of question, did fsck actually report any errors?
13:13.30lcukno
13:13.51lcuksaid total logical clusters 999602
13:13.53lcukthen counted loads
13:13.58qwerty12_N800ah, by default fsck doesn't fix errors even if it says there is :/
13:14.02lcukchecked clusters: 608518
13:14.02lcuk/dev/mmcblk0p1: 2736 files, 608518/999603 clusters
13:14.08lcukthen said that ^
13:14.38brontideyep, with VM stopped all networking works again, just ssh'ed in
13:14.44lcukthe 999602 was meant to be 999603
13:14.46brontideno other changes
13:14.48qwerty12_N800lcuk: does "cat /proc/swaps" say anything?
13:15.04qwerty12_N800mine is : "/media/mmc2/.swap                       file            131040  78596   -6"
13:15.24brontideI suppose I should try turning it back on and seeing if it happens again?
13:15.41lcukyes! it displays the list headers but theres no entries
13:15.51brontideMaybe wait till I've finished up the deb for DialCentral
13:16.05qwerty12_N800lcuk: give me a minute
13:16.18lcukk
13:17.34qwerty12_N800lcuk: run this: "dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc2/.swap bs=1024 count=128000"
13:17.45lcukwhoa! whats that do?
13:17.57qwerty12_N800(it makes an empty 128mb files on the internal mmc)
13:18.02lcukahh ok :)
13:18.03qwerty12_N800*file
13:18.34lcukas root or normal user?
13:18.46qwerty12_N800normal user should do it
13:18.59lcuki can change parms if needed anyway cant i
13:19.05qwerty12_N800yeah
13:20.03qwerty12_N800when it's lemme know please
13:20.04lcukw000t its tellin me its resizing it now
13:20.21lcukdd finished, i went into the gui and its getting further than it did :D
13:21.18qwerty12_N800hehe I hope it works, i was about to go into more command lines :p
13:21.34lcuknahhh, i wonder why it couldnt create a file thou
13:22.02lcuknot that i care, i ran out of memory last night just by loading all my sketches
13:23.03lcuk"Virtual memory resized" :D
13:23.15lcukthanks qwerty12_N800 your genius knows no bounds
13:24.17qwerty12_N800:) (i'm not modest, muhahaha :p)
13:25.05qwerty12_N800cat /proc/swaps should now list your new swapfile if you wish to verify
13:26.09lcuki can get on with liqbase now :) I replaced the entire menu system yesterday with blended bitmaps - it looks very shiny now
13:26.18lcukits working
13:26.28lcukor at least the gui is tellin me it is there
13:26.29qwerty12_N800ooh nice :)
13:26.53qwerty12_N800*grin* /me can't wait to see the new version
13:27.19qwerty12_N800are you presenting it at the summit?
13:27.22lcukyer, in about a week ive gotta stop with the features and cull everything and prepare for a package
13:27.25lcukyes :)
13:27.40lcukit works from my laptop now (to a degree)
13:28.17lcukbut i think im gonna leave the network control off it - i dont want home server swamped and ive not got enough time to purchase and configure a proper internet server
13:28.24qwerty12_N800cool, can't wait to see the vid :p. and then me and crashanddie and go into a mock northern accent :p
13:29.29lcuki think im gonna have to use scrachbox for packaging it up as well
13:29.33brontiderebooted fsck'ed rebooted reenabled swap and things appear back to normal...  weirdness.   The only thing I can think of is the unit did have an unclean shutdown at one point over vacation
13:29.46qwerty12_N800lcuk: get a cable router :p. my sister got a d-link one for about £30 (and this was a long time ago) and it worked more reliable than our phoneline one
13:30.29lcukqwerty12_N800, yer a decent linux router should handle lots of connections, but i dont have time to configure it and write software as i want
13:31.09lcukis taking a course in queens english by the way
13:31.20lcukwont be northern by the summit
13:31.59qwerty12_N800lcuk: if you have a lot of time, you should set up sbrsh. it's basically the perfect mix of what you want, everything done in scratchbox but actuall binaries compiled on-device transparently
13:32.30qwerty12_N800lcuk: oh no, now i can't laugh :p (i'm only joking when I  do :))
13:32.51lcuki am trying to work out exactly what i want the compiler to do
13:33.09lcuki would really like to make an actual source editor in liqbase and use gcc directly from the device
13:33.23lcukbut that involves a lot of other stuff and dynamic loading of modules etc
13:33.30lcukwhich i just cant be arsed with right now
13:34.49qwerty12_N800has an odd idea of compiling the kernel from the device, after i set up the clone to sd :>
13:35.04lcukmake sure you are in perfomance mode
13:35.28melmothhow long does it take to compile a kernel on the deveice itself ?
13:35.46johnxI think it would depend on how many drivers you want to compile with it...
13:35.55johnxthat's why it takes so long on x86
13:35.56lcukmelmoth, c compilation isnt that slow for small things
13:36.18lcukbut i guess its memory buffering problems once you ramp up
13:36.30johnxif you want support for every usb->ethernet adapter in the world I could see it taking some time...
13:36.34qwerty12_N800yeah, it's really annoying, because i like to listen to music, the cpu gets forced at 330 mhz so i have to kerp echoing to set it back to 400 :/
13:36.44qwerty12_N800johnx: me me
13:36.56johnxqwerty12_N800, then compile in sb :P
13:37.37lcukis it possible to translate original 68k directly to arm
13:38.08johnxhmm? like assembly or machine code?
13:38.21lcukbinary file
13:38.40lcukof course the int handlers and custom chip mods would have to be filtered and redirectly
13:38.47lcukredirected
13:39.24johnxare we talking about linux binaries then?
13:39.29lcukcall it a perverse thought
13:39.34lcukno i was thinking amiga
13:40.02johnxthen I would say ... probably not easily
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13:40.50lcuki just see how similar on the surface thumb assembly is to original 68k and it makes me smile
13:41.43johnxisn't that like "dynamic recompilation"?
13:41.57lcukyer
13:42.08johnxI thought there was a PSX emulator that did that to some extent on x86
13:43.16lcukprobably is
13:43.20johnxhmmm...I wonder how the garnet VM guys are getting such great performance :)
13:43.25jottlcuk: there is the cyclone core thingy.
13:44.10jottnot really dynamic recompilation afair but quite fast
13:44.22jottgoogles
13:44.26jottlcuk: http://notaz.gp2x.de/cyclone.php
13:44.28lcukhi jott - which systems does it emulat?
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13:44.40jottjust the 68000 processor
13:44.58lcukwicked
13:45.04jottit's integrated into one uae port
13:45.59qwerty12_N800ooh, he has picodrive for uiq3, something i can actually use my p1 for :)
13:46.11lcukcool, ill have a big read when i get more time
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13:46.37lcukis really glad he was born when computers were around
13:47.24lcukjott - if you had been born a couple of hundred years ago, what job would you have - what would you be spending your time hacking away at
13:47.25qwerty12_N800is really glad he grew up using a modern pc :p
13:48.03johnx100 years ago? I'd probably have fun hacking on early car engines
13:48.14jottlcuk: probably pure math :)
13:48.20johnxdriving without a license FTW!
13:48.49lcukqwerty12_N800, you missed out on the best computers - intel x86 is a monolithic mess, and many other devices could have beat it on all fronts on a technical battle - but there again the "best" solution doesnt always win
13:48.54lcukjott :) heh
13:49.15johnxqwerty12_N800, I know what you mean. The thought of barely being able to fit a book on all the storage I could afford would feel rather limiting I think...
13:49.17lcukjohnx, 100 years ago you would have needed tonnes of money to do that
13:49.37johnxlcuk, fixing *other* people's cars :)
13:49.49lcukahhh so you would live near mr daimlers house
13:50.16johnxlcuk, model T was 1908
13:50.22johnxI think I'd be busy enough :)
13:50.25lcukwhere did mechanics learn to do that sucking in wind through teeth thing
13:50.32qwerty12_N800lcuk: The only thing I would have liked is to mess around with old computers to pick up asm and things like that
13:50.42qwerty12_N800johnx: yeah :/
13:50.54lcukdo you think blacksmiths use to do it when you took your horse for a new shoe
13:51.04riotsleek, my new notebook-bag has a n810-sized extra compartment :D
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13:51.41lcukriot, thats illegal at some airports now - you have to be able to unfol;d your laptop completely and show it with nothing above/below the laptop
13:52.00*** join/#maemo patoh (n=patoh@unaffiliated/pat/x-10101)
13:52.02lcukextra tech will make them strip search you
13:52.12johnxheh...and yet they still let you get on a plane with a 9-cell li-ion battery...
13:53.06lcuki hated standing in the airport with a spike from a broken pen digging out the flammable material from my zippo lighter and throwing it in the bin
13:53.29lcukhttp://www.tsa.gov/press/happenings/simplifying_laptop_bag_procedures.shtm
13:54.00Stskeepsmy worst(?) airport experience was after putting my laptop through the scanner, it gave me a quite astonishing static electric shock
13:54.25lcukdid you jump and scare the security doods?
13:54.41Stskeepsyeah
13:54.42riotlcuk: yeah, i know, but i have to unpack it anyway everytime.. so thats not really an issue.
13:54.46Stskeepsthey didn't take really
13:54.48Stskeepsthey were dutch
13:54.48Stskeeps:P
13:54.52Stskeepss/take/care/
13:54.53lcuklol
13:55.03riotjohnx: i always say: perfect bomb! Just a stupid sony-battery..
13:55.04lcukriot, as long as you know - its if you forget they get shirty
13:55.40lcukwith my laptop am i allowed to leave it in my main luggage?
13:55.43riotlcuk: yeah. Once i was allowed (they didn't notice and i forgot) to take my leatherman onboard.. hah.
13:55.45lcukor should i just carry it through
13:56.27lcukjott, if i dont get my laptop to germany could i install liqbase on yours for my presentation
13:56.39riotlcuk: i wouldn't put it in the main luggage... sometimes they handly it very roughly.. so all my sensitive equipment stays with me.. also i wouldn't want it to get lost (my main luggage got lost once... not again.)
13:57.03lcukriot, i just dont have a laptop bag yet, i suppose i should just buy one
13:57.07riotlcuk: german authorities are not _that_ crazy yet, i think..
13:57.08jottlcuk: i don't have a laptop atm...
13:57.09lcukplus its a really crappy old one
13:57.21riotlcuk: i always take my Cam/Notebook bagpack with me on airplane travels
13:57.23jottlcuk: but this should not be an issue i guess..
13:57.23lcukits got a broken screen
13:57.43johnxheh...the best airport experience I had: bought 2 snowglobes inside the gates at one airport, got on the plane, and then while transferring at the next airport the nicer snowglobe got confiscated :/
13:57.45lcukits gonna be fine thou for presenting
13:58.00lcukjohnx, this wasnt france was it
13:58.08johnxlcuk, the states...
13:58.16lcukjust slightly worse
13:58.26johnxsecurity theater is aaaawesome
13:58.37johnxI just wish I could watch and not be an actor...
13:59.01lcukat least i have my 810 to make life simpler
13:59.09lcukim taking a box of matches on my carry on this time :)
13:59.14melmothis france famous for snowglobe confiscation frenzy ?
13:59.40lcukno, they were much more tough on normal items
13:59.59jottmy funniest airport experience was some time ago. some guy went trough the metal detector thingy without anything registered. then i went trough and it beeped and made noises but they just stopped and searched the guy before me :p
14:00.08lcuki had had my zippo with me all the way there and it was only on the return journey that i had to take it apart
14:00.20lcuklol
14:00.21lcuklag
14:01.11lcukthe best part about travelling is always landing back on home soil :)
14:01.29lcukthe worst part is leaving your destination
14:01.42jottlcuk: do you fall on the ground and kiss it like the pope?! :D
14:02.13lcuknot quite jott, but in my sketches ive got notes from as i came through the airport - i was really sad to leave but very relieved to be home
14:02.34jotthehe you should add a mood slider to liqbase :)
14:02.55lcukive got ideas for a homepage :)
14:03.31lcukinfact, i best get on - one of the more radical ideas is very close to coming to life
14:03.59lcukhas an "ed" button on every menu item in liqbase
14:04.13lcuk"ed" takes you to the sketch editor to custom design the menu button
14:04.32johnxhot sauce :)
14:04.34jottoh i just thought you meant a pron viewer mode :P
14:04.54lcuklol
14:05.17lcuk\@ qwerty12_N800 grrrrr
14:05.19Stskeepsjott: snowballs are excellent for knocking down people though
14:05.32Stskeepser, johnx
14:05.45qwerty12_N800lcuk: lol, what? :p
14:05.48lcuki just up arrowed/returned in console and tried to dd my swap again
14:05.59lcukthats always ./mkrun.sh
14:06.16johnxStskeeps, hmm?
14:06.30lcukwhich very nicely colors the output of make.  it makes warnings yellow, and errors red
14:06.31lcukits very nice
14:06.43Stskeepsjohnx: snowglobes are actually quite firm and heavy glass :P i'm sure someone banging you on the head with one isn't going to be a nice experience :P
14:07.13johnxStskeeps, right...but they let people sell them inside the gates...
14:07.21Stskeepsyeah, which is stupid :P
14:07.39brontideKhertan: you around? does this look sane? http://pastebin.com/m401fcd01
14:07.41johnxStskeeps, anyways, the explanation offered was not "you could hit someone with it" but "that might be a liquid bomb"
14:07.45Stskeepsheh
14:08.03Stskeepsthe poor security people obviously don't think like psychos :P
14:08.31lcukincase people wanna see:  make  2>&1 | perl -p -e 's/warning/\e[33mwarn    \e[0m/; s/error/\007\e[31mERROR   \e[0m/'
14:08.32johnxStskeeps, nah, they just do what they're told: put on a show for the easily impressed
14:09.45*** join/#maemo Grackle (n=Alex@frenchad3-1.umeres.maine.edu)
14:10.29jotthands lcuk a colorgcc and adds a cmake :p
14:10.56lcukjott, that involves replacing binaries and stuff, this works on every machine i have tried it on
14:11.04jotthuh?!
14:11.05jottno
14:11.30jottin fact it does something similar..
14:12.02lcukbut stands in the way of gcc from what i read
14:12.10Stskeepsis { 'Actual text question asked' : choice, 'Another question asked' : choice2 } a shitty preset conf format? example, { 'Which Deblet environment would you like to install?' : 'nit-env-gnome-basic', 'Where would you like to install Deblet to?' : 0 # deblet-in-a-file }?
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14:23.57riothow long is sb-menu expected to run at first usage?? I've a quad core and its eating the cpu for over a minute now
14:26.09riotaah, strace tells me, its stuck
14:26.19riotwonderful. Apparently it dislikes my urxvt-terminal
14:26.58riotniiiice. Xterm works flawlessly. Under urxvt it didn't even output an error. BUG!!!
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14:43.14lcukoh shit, the camera is broked
14:43.34johnxlcuk, it freaked out? have you rebooted yet?
14:43.53lcukno, my main actual camera
14:44.02johnxeep O_o
14:44.04lcukits making some god awful noises from the lens as it powers up
14:44.17johnxdid you get sand in it or something?
14:44.39lcukno, but youngest found it the other day
14:44.43lcuk:(
14:46.21lcuki wanted to show you what ive been doin with the menu
14:47.00brontideanyone have a few moments to help my push a package to extras-devel?
14:47.47brontideI have a .dsc, changes and tar.gz all built with py2deb and signed
14:50.32lcukbrontide, sorry i cant help ive never sent a package anywhere
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14:51.30qwerty12_N800brontide: I've only done it once using sbox and web assistant  :/
14:52.10jottand i never used py2deb :O
14:52.16jottwhat's the actual problem? :)
14:52.27brontideno problem, just don't know what to do next
14:52.43qwerty12_N800~extras-uploading
14:52.43infobotfrom memory, extras-uploading is http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras
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14:56.34riotwoo, yay. I has a running diablo-sdk on my xephyr.
14:56.46brontidewhy can't I scp out of the device, keep gettign /usr/bin/ssh: No such file or directory
14:57.13jottbrontide: install ssh?! :)
14:57.34brontideduh, I must have only installed openssh-server
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15:02.10lcukjott, this menu is amazing
15:03.01lcuki thought it was good before, but it looks really nice and it has a great wipe transition effect now
15:03.09jottshowshowshow :)
15:03.21lcukscrollback, my camera is bust
15:03.24brontide(&*^*^*(*(*Y*&^!(@*# apt-get is all screwed up... keeps barfing on osso-software-version\* stuff
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15:04.30jottlcuk: just mail the source or binary ;)
15:04.47Jaffalcuk: or another video or photo ;-)
15:05.07jottbrontide: osso-software-version.* is screwed up :/
15:05.23brontidewell I can't install openssh-client until it's fixed
15:05.24lcuklemme see what i can do, but lots of things are starting to come together
15:05.25riothow do i install the default apps in the sdk? like browser et al
15:05.40jottbrontide: install the -unlocked package?
15:05.48brontideI have the unlocked
15:05.48lcuki rebuilt the menus using the ui tiles ive been working towards
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15:14.35lcukcamera works
15:14.41lcukand ive took a movie
15:15.18lcukit was the rechargables
15:15.21lcukthey have finally died
15:20.42RST38hlcuk
15:20.50lcukyes
15:21.11qwerty12RST38h: Could you please remove bad checksum check from VGB? :/
15:23.56RST38hqwerty: Nope
15:24.02RST38hUse gblist
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15:24.37RST38hhttp://fms.komkon.org/EMUL8/#EMUTools
15:25.05qwerty12ok, ta :).i have an ips patched pokemon rom that would be nice to play :)
15:25.26riot:( i have no repositories in my sdk.. normal? Not even a browser :((
15:25.43riotand adding repositories via the application manager yields no results either
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15:26.03johnxriot, that's normal. a lot of those apps are closed source and are only available in the image you flash a tablet with
15:26.53napsy_Hello. I'm trying to set up my host linux mashine in order to detect the nokia device as a network device. The problem is I don't know how to get to the terminal on the device. Please help.
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15:27.27riotjohnx: even the browser??
15:27.38johnxriot, the browser UI is closed
15:27.41lcuk"PLEASE BE PATIENT—THIS MAY TAKE SEVERAL MINUTES.
15:27.41lcukONCE COMPLETED, YOU WILL SEE A CONFIRMATION MESSAGE."
15:27.45johnxthe browser core is open
15:28.02riotbut even the added maemo-extras repository doesn't show up.
15:28.41johnxriot, if you run apt-cache search some-package-in-extras it doesn't show up?
15:28.56johnxnapsy_, what tablet do you have and what OS version is on it?
15:29.22napsy_johnx, nokia n800 with OS2008
15:29.22riotjohnx: yes, there's lots of stuff
15:30.22johnxriot, I'm not understanding the problem...
15:30.27napsy_the manual says I should get root access on the device terminal
15:30.36napsy_but don't know how to get to the terminal
15:30.52johnxnapsy_, menu -> utilities -> x terminal
15:31.14napsy_hmm damn ... how did i miss that
15:31.17napsy_johnx, tnx
15:31.27johnxto get root access you should get rootsh from here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/
15:31.28riotjohnx: hmm. Well this is not a real problem - i was just wondering why nothing appears in the application manager
15:31.57johnxaaah...hmm, the app manager is strange even on real devices
15:32.16johnxmaybe it's looking for a weird dist name?
15:32.22johnxjust using apt-get should be fine
15:32.51riotok. The menus don't really get upgraded either? Because i just installed gpe-calendar to test it, it doesn't appear (and it doesn't run either, has some probles with the d-bus library)
15:33.29johnxhow did you run it?
15:33.47riotin the sdk-shell
15:33.56johnxwhat was the exact command?
15:34.02riotgpe-calendar
15:34.11johnxtry run-standalone.sh gpe-calendar
15:34.26riotaah ok
15:34.41lcukgets impatient with youtube
15:35.36lcukjott, regarding the blending of images using their alpha channels - that will have to wait: loading png files kept failing and im not going back to it till after
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15:38.06lcukwhy on earth doesnt youtube upload have a progress
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15:41.21napsy_Hm when I'm root in the terminal and try to execute insmod, terminal says insmod was not found. Any ideas?
15:41.42johnxnapsy_, try /sbin/insmod
15:42.45napsy_it worked thnaks
15:43.27johnxhmm...your PATH must not be set right. what command did you use to get root access?
15:43.33napsy_is there a way to go up in the terminal
15:43.42GAN8001dpad. . . .
15:43.44johnxnapsy_, press up :)
15:43.45napsy_to the previous command
15:44.02napsy_hmm I don't have any Up key
15:44.04GAN8001dpad. . . .
15:44.50johnxon the left side of the device is a 4-way directional pad. hit up on that "d-pad"
15:44.53lcukhow long does youtube processing normally take?
15:45.03lcukits finished uploading now
15:45.04GAN8001lcuk, depends on your connection
15:45.05napsy_oh lol :)
15:45.08napsy_forgot about that
15:45.31lcukGAN800, its on their server, it tells me its not finished processing yet thou
15:46.51napsy_johnx, yes my PATH is not set ... I used 'rootsh' to get to root
15:47.08johnxnapsy_, try sudo gainroot or root
15:47.12qwerty12^
15:47.12napsy_ok
15:47.19johnxi think they do the same thing
15:47.29qwerty12na, root is better than sudo gainroot
15:47.45qwerty12(root correctly sources the environment)
15:47.58lcukits live >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7SViwZwqoc
15:48.21qwerty12ooh nice menu
15:48.32qwerty12transitions are nice too
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15:49.09lcuktransitions are great :D
15:51.34johnxyou managed to cope with the ondemand scheduler?
15:52.13lcukno, either cos im doing more its not dropping, or nokia have tweaked it slightly
15:52.40lcukit feels different and its rarer i notice im in ondemand
15:53.35lcukjaffa, jott, youtube vis is there
15:56.40Jaffalcuk: ta
15:57.07GAN8001Cool
15:57.19Jaffalcuk: looks good
15:57.30Jaffadecides to have a poke around inside the Java class files making up Navicore
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16:00.22lcukgets on with the rest now
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16:22.23napsy__Hello. I can connect to the nokia device from my host system but when I try to ssh into it no password works. Even if I manually set the root password. Any ideas?
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16:28.12JaffaFrom the look of it, the Java's only used for the navigation features; with the Map app itself being ObjectiveC.
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16:38.37Italodancewow i finished quake 2 by my n800 now
16:38.42Italodance:p
16:38.51Italodancegreat game
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17:07.05riotmhmm. mounting the external card via sshfs is a nice thing. It achieves only 1 mb/sec though via wireless.
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18:06.38sinakkserei kaneis ti wra einai o agwnas?
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18:08.49sinakcyz
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19:35.24zapAny members of the 'kernels' garage project here?
19:39.14lcukzap, i dont think anyones here
19:41.03GAN8001I'm a member
19:41.12GAN8001But not really doing anything at the moment.
19:41.20zapyep, nobody's doing :)
19:41.27zapI'm going to do some work on it
19:41.31GAN8001Yeah, there's no activity yet
19:41.40GAN8001fanoush and trickie are really busy.
19:41.50zapI'm thinking about kernel packaging. Any ideas about it?
19:41.53GAN8001I bet you could harass qwerty12 into doing something, though.
19:42.05GAN8001qwerty12 is the man for that.
19:42.13zapqwerty12_N800: <beep>
19:42.25GAN8001Basically you just need to install the kernel image and call fiasco-flasher in postinst
19:42.39qwerty12_N800is not here, please leave your message after the tone
19:42.46zap:)
19:43.35zapI'm thinking about different branches of the community kernels
19:43.38qwerty12_N800I'll start working when someone else does :p. so far, i'm testing preempt kernel :)
19:43.49yacoobplease leave your tone, after the message
19:43.52zapqwerty12_N800: good, I'll kick the project going
19:44.06lcuk"please leave your credit card details after the tone"
19:44.13qwerty12_N800zap: cool :)
19:44.14zapplease leave
19:44.37zapWhat should be the versioning scheme
19:44.51zapand whether the kernel modules packages will be compatible with different kernel branches
19:45.16qwerty12_N800lcuk: please tell me over the phone, the contents of your latest liqbase binary base64 encoded... :p
19:45.34lcuki'm sorry, i can only supply it encoded in northern
19:45.43qwerty12_N800oh noez
19:46.32lcukim glad i finally replaced the menu - its a total drop in replacement but built with the ui components and stuff ive been working on
19:46.57qwerty12_N800zap: for modules, i think separate modules for each kernel would be best. i currently keep the version tricked on the preempt kernel to load modules that don't have preempt tag in version
19:47.19qwerty12_N800for example
19:47.54zapright now kernel isn't packaged at all, right?
19:47.59jottzap: i still think the sanest solution would be to have a osso-software-version-community like meta package and then different kernel versions that "provide" the right kernel.
19:48.14lcukthese kernel module changes, are people going to have to choose the kernel with closest features to what they want, but may not be able to get all the features available?
19:48.37lcukor is it going to be one "community kernel"
19:48.37zapI'm not sure yet, I just want to make sure several kernels will play together nicely
19:48.49zapMy idea is to have a kernel with all features
19:48.53qwerty12_N800lcuk: patches will be available, you can always compile your own ;)
19:48.56zapif that is possible and all features are stable
19:48.57qwerty12_N800zap: +
19:49.15lcukzap - i would prefer the single one - it makes it easy for users to understand
19:49.24zapbut anyways I want to make it possible to roll easily your own kernel
19:49.29zapme too
19:49.47zapUbuntu has a special metapackage - linux-image-generic
19:49.49lcukrolling your own is download and select options to build as required is it not
19:49.50jottzap: the current kernel is in "kernel-diablo-flasher"
19:50.00zapit depends on the package linux-image-2.6.24-19-generic
19:50.08lcukjott, did you see the new youtube
19:50.17jottlcuk: not yet i guess
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19:50.27lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7SViwZwqoc
19:50.29zapah, flasher
19:50.34qwerty12_N800I would only suggest separate kernel when 2 or more *useful* features conflict but the features are popular with people
19:50.43zapI had the impression kernel-diablo-flasher is the flashing tool :)
19:51.01zapwell, for example qwerty12 is playing with latest-and-greatest kernel
19:51.15jottzap: it also contains the kernel image.. :/
19:51.18zapit should be possible to install that too, but this is pretty experimental
19:51.22jottnot really intuitive naming :)
19:51.28zapindeed :)
19:51.40zapso we have at least two kernels already
19:51.53zap2.6.21-200829maemo1 %-\
19:52.25zapimho community kernels should use some different versioning scheme
19:52.55zapright now kernel itself is 2.6.21-omap1
19:53.10zapand package is versioned differently, this sucks
19:53.24jottlcuk: lol @ "the original thing is still here" :)
19:53.58lcuk;)
19:54.16lcukits got a complete reworking from the ground up :)
19:54.17jottzap: and unfortunately it will break osso-softare-versions if we don't leave the original kernel-diablo-flasher in place..
19:54.28qwerty12_N800zap: I have a problem with the slowness of nokia releasing kernel sources
19:54.39zapjott: I think we will leave it in place
19:54.50zapqwerty12_N800: you mean wifi?
19:55.20jottlcuk: but looks nice otherwise.
19:56.06qwerty12_N800zap: no, nokia still haven't updated kernel-source-diablo to 29, it's still 24. what happens if nokia fix serious bug but we are still waiting for code of fix?
19:56.30jottis 24 really different to 29? :)
19:56.47GAN800jott, it's not.
19:57.08qwerty12_N800jott: I think it's the same but saying that, they haven't updated source to other things like modest
19:57.13GAN800m-vo said as much. It's a package update.
19:57.35brontideok... how long does it take for autobuilder to do it's thing?
19:57.49GAN8005 minutes or so
19:57.55GAN800Dependinh
19:57.57jottbrontide: usually ranges from 1 min to 20 min.
19:57.59GAN800g
19:58.22GAN800Where the hell are the server upgrades? :/
19:58.38zapat least if I compile modules for kernel-source-diablo 2.6.21-200823maemo6 they work fine on the tablet
19:58.39jottfor everything longer you should start to get concerned :)
19:59.55zapWhere's the ITOS2008 server edition?
20:00.45GAN800On the N800's running maemo.org
20:00.49lcukmaemo.org is runnin it
20:00.53lcuklol
20:00.55brontidepackages can't have capitals?
20:01.24qwerty12_N800brontide: read debian package policy :)
20:01.24zapthey can has a cheezburger
20:01.40qwerty12_N800i gives them coke
20:01.44yacoobwants proper smb support in next version of maemo
20:01.57brontidehas only ever done RPM stuff....
20:02.04zapsmb is not very good when the connection breaks
20:02.13zapit can hang your stuff for long periods of time
20:02.16RST38hmooo
20:02.19RST38hscrew smb
20:02.31RST38hupnp media server is enough
20:02.50yacoobno, it isn't :)
20:03.00qwerty12_N800only uses smb, all other computers in the house are windows
20:03.16RST38hexplicitely disables all smb services on each windows machine in the house
20:03.30RST38h[using ftp and ssh instead]
20:04.09yacoobthat's very... convenient.
20:04.58lcukyacoob, thats very... diplomatic.
20:05.03zapssh to windoz? exotic.
20:05.09lcuki do it
20:05.11qwerty12_N800yacoob: if you want to use passworded smb shares etc, command line it is
20:05.14RST38hnaah, windows ones run ftp
20:05.24zapdoznt run windoz
20:05.27yacooblcuk, I'm interested in reasoning behind this :)
20:05.29lcuki use winscp
20:05.48RST38hand the whole thing is behind a router so yacoob's evil plan to hack it is kinda useless
20:05.48jott(open)sshd runs fine under windows.
20:05.54qwerty12_N800i have an ssh server in windows and linux
20:06.09zapjott: it runs, but you can't do much
20:06.19RST38hzap: Just need scp really
20:06.21jottzap: sftp atleast :)
20:06.25zapyou can't even launch far
20:06.36RST38hwell, far is console based
20:06.38jottand with cygwin a bit more.
20:06.38yacoobRST38h, :o
20:06.44jottmc runs :)
20:06.47qwerty12_N800best far plugin is sefp :>
20:06.48zapfar is, but windows doesn't really have a console
20:06.51RST38hmc will run
20:06.58lcukputty
20:07.10RST38hwhen I say "far is console based" I mean WIndoze console API rather than stdin/stdout
20:07.11zapmc will run away
20:07.44zapI ported once long ago openssh to OS/2
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20:07.58zapit used to work with all console apps
20:08.08RST38hhow did you forward the api calls?
20:08.18zapscanned the screen, make a diff, convert to ansi seq
20:08.48zapexotic stuff
20:08.51RST38hah
20:08.54RST38hevil
20:09.18zapthe client was better though :) wrote a complete vt100 implementation for it
20:09.57zapconsole based, not like putty does
20:11.05RST38hhas got an NXC2600 devkit
20:11.12RST38hReally cool little device
20:11.24qwerty12_N800wishes winscp worked in linux w/out wine :/. atm, i'm using gnome vfs's sftp support in nautilus
20:11.29RST38hRuns Linux+X11+XFCE, GTK installed
20:11.32brontideWhohoo... py2deb + scp = success
20:11.55RST38hqwerty: I am sure there is a fitting native replacement =)
20:12.04jottyuck winscp :/
20:12.33jottprepares the plastic gloves.
20:12.35zapqwerty12_N800: gFTP?
20:12.39qwerty12_N800:)
20:12.42zapuses mc
20:12.50zapand lftp
20:12.52RST38hmc+n810=trouble
20:12.57zap?
20:13.03qwerty12_N800zap: ah, i have that installed as well, thanks :)
20:13.06RST38hdamn keyboard pops up all the time
20:13.17qwerty12_N800RST38h: wait a sec
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20:13.22jotthuh? i disabled all keyboard stuff..
20:13.22zapdisable finger keyboard
20:13.26jottnever bothers me.
20:13.28zaptoo
20:13.35RST38hyes, but I need it in other apps! =)
20:13.51jotthmm.. where whould you need it?! :D
20:13.55zapdisable just the finger keyboard
20:14.01RST38h[and I mean pen keyboard, finger keyboard I am unable to invoke anyway]
20:14.05zapnot the screen keyboard
20:14.07qwerty12_N800just does gconftool-2 --set -t bool /system/osso/af/keyboard-attached true on n800 :)
20:14.18RST38hscreen keyboard always pops up
20:14.28RST38hcan't disable it - need it elsewhere
20:14.41zapdoes it happen in a plain xterm?
20:14.45RST38hqwerty: Hey, this can be made into a little sh scrip ;)
20:14.51RST38hzap: osso-xterm
20:14.56zapyes, in it?
20:14.59RST38hyes
20:15.09zapsad, looks likt xterm invokes it then
20:15.14qwerty12_N800RST38h: already have done ;) http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=219502#post219502
20:16.03zaprst38 has a n810, not 800
20:16.12zapso keyboard-attached is true anyway
20:16.29brontidemore stuipd questions.  Now that the package is built, how long till the .install file shows up in extra-devel for testing?
20:16.45qwerty12_N800zap: it wasn't for me in n810 emulator
20:17.09RST38hbrontide: monday midday
20:17.33qwerty12_N800brontide: either way, a long time
20:17.35RST38hwait, you are building from sources... mmm, maybe you will get it earlier
20:17.48zaphmm, indeed false
20:17.49GAN800No .install from source.
20:17.51zapwtf?
20:18.03GAN800The system isn't setup for it.
20:18.04RST38hGAN: No, I mean he is using autobuilder
20:18.15GAN800There's a mail on -developers about it.
20:18.16qwerty12_N800zap: it's for external keyboards afaik
20:18.20zapah
20:18.21RST38hGAN: And AFAIK with autobuilder the package gets promoted automatically
20:18.26brontideIn the meantime I should just test with the .deb directly?
20:18.33GAN800Right, no .install from the autobuilder.
20:18.35RST38hGAN: When submitting binaries, somebody from Nokia has to press the button to promote it
20:19.08GAN800The autobuilder submission chain does not include .install generation.
20:19.29GAN800Nobody seemed to care when X-Fade brought it up on the list.
20:19.44brontideso all the .install files in extras-devel are put there manually?
20:19.58GAN800We should probably talk to hi. when he gets back.
20:20.13GAN800brontide, or from non-free.
20:20.24RST38hBut, gentlemen...
20:20.30GAN800Since non-free uses the old submission chain.
20:20.36RST38hAny of you can just create an .install file and place it online
20:20.53RST38hThis is what I have done: all my .installs are at fms.komkon.org/EmuMaemo/
20:20.53GAN800Right, it's not a difficult thing to decode.
20:21.03qwerty12_N800the maemo apps catalogue will happily host it too
20:21.06RST38h*or* you can create one right inside the product page
20:21.08GAN800or just forget the .install entirely
20:21.18GAN800Go through Application manager.
20:21.32GAN800If you're just testing.
20:21.58GAN800.installs are just convenience makers for noobs.
20:22.16brontideI was hoping to sucker a few noobs for testing ;-)
20:22.26*** join/#maemo henrique (n=henrique@unaffiliated/henrique)
20:22.48qwerty12_N800brontide: you called?
20:23.25brontidetesting... sure, if you have a Grandcentral account
20:23.35zapnoob?
20:23.50qwerty12_N800brontide: heh, don't think i can get one anyway
20:24.52GAN800zap, google: define noob
20:25.58zapI know whats a noob, I'm wondering if qwerty12 qualifies as one
20:26.20qwerty12_N800:)
20:26.30GAN800Oh, well, of course. :P
20:26.44qwerty12_N800:P
20:27.24GAN800qwerty12_
20:27.44GAN800qwerty12_N800, get yourself a Beagle so I can leach off your hacking.
20:28.04jottGAN800: have you done anything useful with it yet?
20:28.16qwerty12_N008GAN800: Heh, my ass is broke :P
20:28.20GAN800jott, still need the serial adaptor
20:28.37GAN800I can't do anything without it, apparently. :/
20:28.39jotthuh. can't be that hard :/
20:28.59GAN800Broke out a nullmodem cable to shrink wrap onto the pins but decided against that/
20:29.15GAN800No, I just have to get something
20:29.44Stskeepsis maemo-select-menu-location the only way to wedge something into the applications menu?
20:29.45GAN800There's, like, a half dozen places/people I could get one from for free, but not until tomorrow.
20:30.03Stskeeps(i'm interested in a solution where it -doesn't- ask where it should put it..)
20:30.14qwerty12_N008GAN800: I recommend gta with the florida gangstas
20:30.56jottGAN800: isn't that something you would find when you dig trough your old spare part boxes? .)
20:31.08qwerty12_N008Stskeeps: maemo-select-menu-location takes a 3rd argument to explicitly specify which category to put the desktop file in
20:31.35Stskeepsqwerty12_N008: does it still pop up the dialog box to ask where to put it anyway?
20:32.13jottStskeeps: it's part of h-a-m so just grab the source and patch it to your needs :)
20:32.26qwerty12_N008Stskeeps: Good point, i think it does. apt-get the hildon app manager source and iirc the code's in there
20:32.30Stskeepsovely
20:32.51GAN800jott, you would assume, and I KNOW I had some, but they must've gone away at some point. :(
20:33.02Stskeepswas planning on mass converting debian xdg menus to maemo application manager..
20:33.23Stskeepssame format, minimal changes needed
20:33.30jottyeah i would just patch the tool then.
20:33.33jottshould be fairly easy.
20:34.18jottGAN800: and the bootloader does not support usb?
20:34.29GAN800There's a giant computer graveyard at my old job, I'll go steal one from there tomorrow.
20:34.43*** join/#maemo InHuMan (n=inhuman@8-43-207-85.zapcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz)
20:34.52GAN800jott, it does, but you have to tell it to use whatever
20:34.53RST38hGrave desecrator!
20:34.59GAN800Which requires serial console.
20:35.30qwerty12_N008interesting decision :/
20:35.37GAN800Meh, it'll be easier eventually
20:35.43GAN800But for now.
20:36.55qwerty12_N008If you know anyone with hacked cable, get a serial cable off them now or threaten to reveallytheir secret :p
20:37.06qwerty12_N008s/off/of
20:40.55GAN800The wiki documentation for the beagle is a little weak.
20:42.04jotthave you tried this? http://beagleboard.googlegroups.com/attach/a124e3b0a2a99d5e/omap3_usbload.txt?view=1&part=2
20:42.54jotti bet you'll get hints in #beagle too :)
20:44.00GAN800jott, haven't so far. :P
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20:44.38jottGAN800: you could start to plan the 770 omap3 mod meanwhile ;)
20:44.46*** join/#maemo behdad (n=behdad@pppoe-148-146.hay.net)
20:44.56GAN800Hooking up the lcd is gonna be trouble.
20:45.42jottyeah you probably need some extra chip - otoh the epson hardware is documented ;)
20:46.18GAN800I could probably tie into the OMAP controller before it hits the DVI chip.
20:46.23*** join/#maemo rob2087 (n=user@cpe-75-84-212-19.socal.res.rr.com)
20:46.48GAN800But, uh, that really sounds like way too much goddamn work for a lazy bastard like me. ;)
20:47.09jotthey but keep the rewarding result in mind ,>
20:48.15RST38h"And it doesn't matter how much you are prepared to spend; you can't buy your way out of the 'compact camera problem' - a small, noisy sensor is a small noisy sensor no matter what kind of tank you build around it or how many 'professional' features you build into the body."
20:48.17RST38hHehe
20:49.15GAN800Well, until the tech gets morezbadass.
20:49.33RST38hThey have hit the wall, with respect to laws of physics
20:49.34t_s_oand then it gets so across the board
20:49.51lcukGAN800, there is a limit - you need to add more light to get smaller sensors working properly
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20:49.57RST38hFuji is the only one successfully jumping up the wall, but it is cheating
20:50.12GAN800Magic lenses.
20:50.17RST38hno, magic sensor ;)
20:50.38RST38hhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_CCD
20:50.42GAN800No, I mean for breaching the wall.
20:50.45RST38hAh
20:50.47t_s_oi would say that noise is only a issue when your printing out A4 or larger images...
20:50.52jotthttp://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=372103&eventPage=1
20:50.57jotthehe look at the price :)
20:51.08RST38ht_s_o: Depends on how much noise and what kind of detail you are printing
20:51.11RST38hoften zooms & crops
20:51.30GAN800I wish I could get a decent 7" dvi touchscreen for a reasonable price.
20:51.49qwerty12_N008jott: lol, too expensive
20:51.58RST38hjjott: that is normal
20:53.03t_s_oRST38h: well, usage scenario is king
20:53.03RST38hjott: it is a really fickle sensor with "optics" roughly equivalent to a pinhole :)
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20:53.03jottRST38h: yeah i wasn't going to say "good offer" :)
20:53.05RST38ht_s_o: yea, but still a general purpose camera good for all scenarios would be cool
20:53.33t_s_oRST38h: not going to happen. or to put it another way, general purpose isnt...
20:54.10*** join/#maemo hircus (n=michel@c-98-228-41-95.hsd1.in.comcast.net)
20:54.21GAN800It's kind of awesome that that kind of tech is so cheap.
20:54.25RST38hI wonder if it is possible to get rid of the noise by reducing the pixel count...
20:54.36GAN800Think about what that would be 50 years ago
20:54.54t_s_ohmm, i kinda recall reading about some kind of analog sensor, dont know where or when tho...
20:54.58RST38hi.e. go down from useless 12mpx to decent 6mpx while reducing noise
20:55.02StskeepsXXX - Making new folders doesn't seem to work so well right now
20:55.03Stskeepspfft.
20:55.14RST38hGAN: No such ICs 50 years ago
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20:55.29RST38hWouldn't even be able to process the data from such a sensor
20:55.38GAN800RST38h, yeah, that's the point.
20:55.45qwerty12_N008Stskeeps: mkdir /media/mmc2/XXXporn
20:55.47jottbehoooold the future!
20:57.08lcukRST38h, yes you can - take your 12mpix image nd merge the pixels
20:57.16lcukyou will reduce the noise
20:57.44AStormand blur the image
20:57.51lcukhubble only has 1mpixel sensor :) each pixel is about 3 metres across though to gather as much light as possible
20:58.00AStormhehehe
20:58.09lcukastorm, but you are taking the data from 4 pixels and making them 1
20:58.11RST38hlcuk: I have some doubt
20:58.22AStormlcuk: that has to use some smart algorithm
20:58.29AStormnot simple averaging
20:58.44lcukalternatively, reduce noise by overlaying 2 12mpix images - same result, more signal, less noise (until you make it bleed)
20:58.47RST38hlcuk: Given that the noise is regularly distributed, you are risking to amplify it or get the same amount
20:59.00AStormit is not noise then
20:59.11RST38h2 images, especially at different ISOs sound like a better idea
20:59.11AStormbut another distortion
20:59.11RST38hAStorm: It is noise
20:59.16lcuknot really, try the nokia camera at 25fps and then try same thing at 8fps
20:59.21AStormnon-random noise is not noise, but distortion ;P
20:59.26lcukyou get more signal for your buck
20:59.33RST38hAStorm: But due to some physical properties it flows over the sensor surface like waves
20:59.48AStormthen you can remove it
20:59.57AStormw/o any tricks
21:00.21RST38hYes, packages lke PaintShop make use of this property to remove it intelligently
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21:04.26t_s_oi see now that i came into this from the wrong angle. i guess it comes from one to many consumer "discussion" about something or other where one inevitably bump into some mediaphile that will argue that anything below a SLR is a waste of money even if all your going to take pictures of is your dog...
21:06.22GAN800Anything below SLR just isn't any fun.
21:06.52t_s_othat would depend on ones definition of fun...
21:07.11t_s_othe fun of taking the picture, or the fun found in the picture...
21:07.19lcukhigh definition dog pictures are a purchasing requirement
21:07.50GAN800Camera fun
21:08.11GAN800The pictures are just a side effect of camera fun. :p
21:08.19lcukmy next camera MUST have a single missing feature: to be able to zoom without turning off the mic
21:08.37lcukwhen it zooms it goes silent \@/
21:08.40GAN800Buy a DSLR
21:08.41*** join/#maemo _matthias__ (n=matthias@vie-nas-ge-0-2.onenet.at)
21:08.57GAN800oh, camcorder
21:08.58qwerty12_N008bruv, a fun camera would be one that fires pellets
21:09.16GAN800I'd just get a cheap camcorder for video.
21:09.22lcukGAN800, no, just a regular digital compact with decent recordign will do me
21:09.24RST38hDSLR is an overkill
21:09.37RST38hGood camera is a camera that you will not hesitate to take with you
21:09.44t_s_oeither im talking chinese or im failing to pick up some irony
21:09.52GAN8001I don't hesitate to take mine with me. :P
21:10.18lcukt_s_o, do you use your irony board for eaxtreme sports?
21:10.19RST38hJust means you are freakier than other people currently present =)
21:10.35t_s_oheh, good question
21:10.37GAN8001Point-and-shoot cameras just get in the way of taking pictures.
21:10.47RST38hIt does, I agree
21:10.55RST38hBut I can place it in my pocket, unlike DSLR
21:11.08GAN8001True enough, but my neck holds things fine.
21:11.24RST38hAnd, after some buggering, it produces decent results too
21:12.00lcukjesus GAN800 my image of you now has to include a DSLR \@/ ffs i was just getting used to imagining you with a bat utility belt full of 810's
21:12.11GAN8001I don't have any N810s
21:12.20lcukok 770s and 800s
21:12.29GAN8001770 stays at home. :P
21:12.52GAN8001cellphone, N800, keys, wallet, watch, and sometimes a Leatherman.'
21:14.41mavhchow do they get in the way of taking pictures?
21:15.09GAN8001mavhc, have you ever used a DSLR?
21:15.25mavhcoccasionally
21:15.58GAN8001Well, with a DSLR, you turn it on, it's on, you press the button, it takes the picture, you press the button again, it takes another picture.
21:16.26GAN8001With a point-and-shoot, you turn it on, it extends the lens . . . starts up . . . waiting . . . waiting
21:16.37GAN8001You press the button, it takes forever to focus and shoot
21:16.41mavhcyou have to wait up to 1 whole second!
21:16.47GAN8001you press again . . . writing . . . writing
21:16.54GAN8001Yeah and my Rebel shoots 3.5fps
21:16.58GAN8001It gets in the way
21:17.00mavhcno, to start up
21:17.03lcukGAN8001, what happens when you need to use flash with your dslr?
21:17.16lcukdoes that have charging time?
21:17.20GAN8001lcuk, I press a button on the left of the body, the flash pops up, it uses it.
21:17.25lcukand 3.5fps isnt very high - mine shoots at 25fps
21:17.26GAN8001Not much of one.
21:17.30GAN8001lcuk, it's not video
21:17.38mavhclcuk: not at full res it doesn't
21:17.44GAN8001Yours doesn't shoot beautiful 10MP pictures at 25fps.
21:17.47RST38hGAN: My Casio focuses and shoots instantly
21:18.08GAN8001RST38h, and then the next shot? :P
21:18.22lcukRST38h, not instant, but well within expected range
21:18.23RST38hGAN: There are image quality problems of course, but none of the performance problems you describe
21:18.23mavhcif I put it in multishot mode it does 2-3fps
21:18.28RST38hGAN: It shotts at 50fps
21:18.31GAN8001Point and shoot just isn't any fun to shoot with.
21:18.44GAN8001Gets in the way and doesn't do what you tell it to.
21:18.47RST38hGAN: And it shoots 7.5mpx at 4fps
21:19.00GAN8001You have to fight the camera to get the shot you want.
21:19.02GAN8001That's not fun.
21:19.07RST38hActually, it does - this partilcular casio has a manual mode
21:19.21lcukmine does as well
21:19.23RST38hIt is very limited due to primitive optics, but it does let you tell it what to do
21:19.31mavhcI point the camera at the subject, press the button, how is it getting in the way?
21:19.42RST38hmavhc: In ideal conditions it does not
21:20.00mavhcwhat does not?
21:20.07GAN8001Shoot with DSLR more
21:20.13GAN8001I'm not really out to convince anybody
21:20.19GAN8001Point-and-shoot doesn't work for me.
21:20.31lcukgetting in the way is like the n810 - noisey image, poorly designed software, no manual settings.  but most consumer handhelds now are quite advanced and packed with decent features
21:20.34RST38hmavhc: Otherwise, you are gonna get: 1) low dynamic range (whites washed out), 2) purplse fringing (shoot foliage), 3) high noise (shoot indoors), 4) wrong color temperasture (shoot indors with artificial lightning)
21:20.52*** join/#maemo BabelO (n=Fabrice@unaffiliated/babelo)
21:20.52RST38hmavhc: Should I continue? =)
21:21.11t_s_othe question then becomes, do the user care about those things?
21:21.16mavhcpoint and shoot: pros: no neck strain, no loans to pay off, fits in more places, no need for a manual
21:21.17lcukdoesnt
21:21.18RST38hBUT, in spite of all these problems, you can still place it into your pocket, unlike DSLR
21:21.24mikkov_brontide: autobuilder generates .install files autimatically: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/diablo/install/
21:21.49mavhcRST38h: it has white balance
21:21.51RST38ht_s_o: I am pretty sure that at least 30% of the users do care
21:22.05lcukand those may go on to get a dslr when required
21:22.06RST38hmavhc: yea, so it will be either underexposed or underexposed :)
21:22.23mavhchadn't noticed any problems
21:22.32lcuki have nothing against a pro camera, its just a consumer handheld does the trick
21:22.50GAN8001mikkov_, I think he just pulled the Chinook files over.
21:23.01GAN8001Or something may have changed since I last talked to him about it.
21:23.02GAN8001Dunno.
21:23.03*** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust710.midd.cable.ntl.com)
21:23.23GAN8001http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg16210.html
21:23.58mavhcobviously for the other 10% of photos you need the larger sensor/better zoom/extra 0.5 seconds of speed starting up
21:24.14mikkov_.install is always generated for extras-devel. But when you promote a package to extras .install isn't generated.
21:24.41lcukmavhc, i would rather have any image at all than not be able to take something larger
21:25.02jotti would like to play around with the exilim pro ex-f1 with 1200 fps video recording :)
21:25.17*** join/#maemo Mickey (n=Mickey_@204.170-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
21:25.19lcukyes, but bandwidth would be a problem
21:25.40lcuk1200fps pure hd video :D
21:25.45GAN8001It's, what 2xx*1xx?
21:26.04*** join/#maemo patoh (n=patoh@CPE-31-94.dsl.onthenet.net)
21:26.05jottGAN8001: yes, 336x96
21:26.10jottstill nice
21:26.25jott512x384 at 300 fps, 432x192 at 600 fps
21:26.59robinkzyrlcj
21:27.04robinkSorry
21:28.59lcukjott! holy moly
21:29.12mavhcbandwidth is their problem too
21:29.59lcukdo not underestimate the amount of bandwidth of a gaggle of nuns with large pockets in their habits
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21:31.55mavhcin fact, do not estimate it at all
21:32.26lcukwhy not? perfect disguise
21:34.37*** join/#maemo bef0rd (n=befr0d@190.69.213.17)
21:34.43jottthe ccd via nun connection will save the day!
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21:46.01robinkIs there a Debian (maemo) patch for the lightmediascanner source?
21:48.24qwerty12_N008robink: the debianisation  is already in the source
21:48.24qwerty12_N008loves the new xarchiver
21:49.54mavhcdoes anyone else find video center getting confused about which rss item is which file? mine thinks some items are already downloaded, when clicking play they play another video
21:50.10mavhcthe details window details are correct
21:50.22robinkqwerty12_N008: I just pulled the git tree and I'm not seeing it.
21:51.00qwerty12_N008robink: I'm looking here: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/source/l/lightmediascanner/ .
21:51.40robinkOh, extras-devel...
21:55.21robinkqwerty12_N008: Thanks, I was looking in pool/chinook/extras/free/source (or trying to)
21:56.26qwerty12_N008No problems, it's more worth looking in diablo as more source packages get uploaded there due to the autobuilder.
21:57.31robinkAh.
21:58.27moontigertakes sbox out back and shoots it ... "die motherf***er die!!"
21:59.30lcukwatches sbox get back up, dust itself off, pick up an axe and go hunting for moontiger
21:59.49moontigermofo wont die and it sure wont work properly
22:00.05lcukwhats it breaking now?
22:00.32moontigernone of the standard apps are there or can be installed
22:00.39moontigernow it wont even show the ui
22:02.01melmothYouhouuuuu
22:02.09melmothis happy
22:02.24melmothlcuk: i just computed my first gps route on the tablet !
22:02.45lcukmelmoth \o/ w00t i suppose?
22:02.54melmothindeed.
22:03.06lcukis this using maemo mapper
22:03.09melmoththere may even be some ram left for text to speech.
22:03.16lcukgod no
22:03.18lcuktis ok
22:03.26melmothof course i want audio.
22:03.30lcukhead in about 10 zillion places (as usual)
22:03.31melmoththis is for bike.
22:03.39melmothfor rent a boke to be exact
22:04.01melmoththere is a demo working for PC here: http://sd-2175.dedibox.fr/pic/demo-sayhoo-0831.tar.gz
22:04.14melmothall is included, tiles, pickled graph data and sql database
22:04.27ProteousMmmm, pickles
22:04.28moontigermelmoth, nice one!!
22:04.32melmothbut for the tablet, i had to change the pickle in smaller bits, and pickel array instead of proper objects.
22:05.12melmoththe tool to preapre tiles, pickle and database are on the svn, as well as the code that works with it.
22:05.42melmothmoontiger: the problem is, i am afraid it really use lots and lots of ram, and it would be difficult to adapt to another bigger town
22:05.47lcukmelmoth - you have created a lot of data
22:05.48melmothsorry londoners.
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22:06.32moontigermelmoth, im in san fran so i dont care about london
22:06.32moontiger:)
22:06.33qwerty12_N008we forgive you :p
22:06.34melmothfor the demo to works, go in the src directory and launch "python sayhoo"
22:06.47melmothi am afraid san francisco is bigger than paris too :)
22:06.56melmothbut lots of bike over here.
22:07.00moontigeryes
22:07.08melmoththinks of william gibson's virtual light
22:07.09moontigersan fran is really small actually
22:07.58melmothlcuk: it does not use maemo mapper, i had a look in it (i even some a patch ;-) ) ; but c is not my cup o tea.
22:10.24lcukmelmoth, so you load up and process the osm database and display on the nokia
22:10.47melmothi download the osm data, parse the xml to feed a database.
22:11.10melmoththen i realised i had to have all the data in memory , fetching it on a per needed basis was too slow.
22:11.22melmothso i just created a big object with all the graph, and pickled it.
22:11.40lcukhas never heard of pickling data
22:11.51melmothserialisation of data the python way.
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22:11.58*** part/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-40-104.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net)
22:12.24*** join/#maemo pupnik (n=pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik)
22:12.36pupnikwants to port Scorched3D to N9x0
22:12.40melmothif you encounter some "no nodes" , it s because i forgot to remove subways nodes.
22:12.57pupnikhey GAN8001 got any opengl demos running yet?
22:13.17lcukmelmoth, looking at pickling, its just serialising the data in the order you need it
22:13.18melmothpupnik: what about wormux instead ? :)
22:13.23lcukhi pupnik
22:13.34GAN8001pupnik, still working on the serial console. :\
22:13.41melmothit s serialising the data so i do not have to think how serialisation works :)
22:14.01melmothhas a lazy approch of problem solving
22:14.06lcukbut wont you have the same problem if you aim to get the data out of sequence?
22:14.19GAN8001I'm getting something now, at least
22:14.22GAN8001But it's just gibberish
22:14.48melmothlcuk: i think so, that s why i try to serialised simple hash structure instead of complex object.
22:15.00melmothworks faster and it took less space
22:15.20melmothbut, then, all my nice object call had to change in the code.
22:15.45qwerty12_N800melmoth: wormux runs on the n8x0 :p
22:15.55moontigercan someone tell me how i get this piece of sh*t sbox to actually work???
22:16.09melmothso why would you like scorched earth ? Wormux beat all of those ballistical games.
22:17.04lcukmelmoth, you arent the only one hard at work http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7SViwZwqoc
22:20.52melmothbeautifull.
22:21.02melmothis that sdl based ?
22:21.43GAN8001xv
22:22.00moontigernukes sbox
22:22.11moontigerwhat a pile of steaming crap that is ... nice one nokia
22:22.35melmothlcuk: i am really really interested in the 'code editor' thingy you showed.the one with scrollin.
22:22.57melmothis looking for a texvtiew sdl widget for a while.
22:23.10mavhcmelmoth: I always prefered the ballistic games without 207 weapons, 1 is enough
22:24.12lcukmelmoth, im interested in it as well
22:24.22lcukand now i have my tiles in place maybe i can get back to it
22:24.27lcukhad to vanish
22:24.40melmothgood night, i ll ask you about this later on :)
22:25.05lcukim back now, but i had a call of nature..
22:25.06*** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust710.midd.cable.ntl.com)
22:25.10melmothahaha
22:25.22lcukwhy textview sdl
22:25.27melmothi was saying at second 30, there is a "code editor" thingy.
22:25.30lcukis there such a thing for sdl
22:25.38melmothnot that i am aware of
22:26.18lcuki made the startings of the editor, but i had no ui elements around to handle it properly, now everything exists within an arbitary rectangle i should be able to do much more than before
22:26.33lcukthe original elements were all whole screen, now thats not the case :)
22:26.46melmothis that C ?
22:26.50lcukyes
22:27.03melmothhmmm.
22:27.43melmothare sources available somewhere ?
22:27.45melmothor will ?
22:27.55robinkis trying to build lightmediascanner-ogg
22:28.09lcukto the released version yes, the latest stuff has not been released in any for myet (barring the yt vid you just saw)
22:28.42melmothdo you have an url for the project i can have a look at ?
22:28.53lcukhttps://garage.maemo.org/projects/liqbase/
22:29.04melmothduh :)
22:29.07melmothi should have guess
22:30.17melmothbookmarked. Time to sleep now.
22:30.42lcukalrighty, dont get lost in your sleep
22:30.57moontigeram i just having a bad day or is the maemo.org website really slow as well?
22:31.09GAN8001It's always slow.
22:31.32moontigerit really is a frustrating experience trying to write software for the nokia series
22:31.43moontigercrap tools ... crap websites that dont work ...
22:31.49GAN8001Sounds like a bad day
22:31.57moontigerrants
22:32.15lcukmoontiger, crap tools? gcc works as expected on the nokia device
22:32.42moontigerlcuk, you know im finally coming round to the idea of doing dev on the tablet
22:32.46GAN8001sighs.
22:32.50moontigeri didnt understand why people would at first
22:32.51GAN8001I really wish I had this connector.
22:32.55moontigerbut now i get it
22:33.00moontigerthe tools are absolute crap
22:33.04GAN8001Cross compilation sucks
22:33.06GAN8001Period.
22:33.11GAN8001Scratchbox 2 is better, though.
22:33.17moontigersbox SUCKS
22:33.20lcukmoontiger, for me, it is simplicity, it does not solve every problem, but it is simpler in my own mind
22:34.00lcukmoontiger, cross compilation is always hard, i now have liqbase and i want to compile for maemo AND for x86 at the same time and its a challenge
22:34.03moontigeri run af-init blah blah and i get the text scroll up saying "desktop running" but nothing shows up in xephyr
22:34.23moontigeruninstall sbox
22:34.27moontigerstart again
22:34.34lcukxephyr is a foolish thing, just compile, copy, execute directly on your tablet
22:34.35moontigerand people wonder why MS did so well?
22:34.44GAN8001What lcuk says.
22:34.54GAN8001Because they have less shitty tools?
22:34.55GAN8001Hardly.
22:35.20lcukno GAN800 microsoft have decent tools as long as you stay on the rails
22:35.27lcukand want to work slowly
22:35.38moontigerMS have great tools and mostly great docs
22:35.39*** join/#maemo Maur (n=dekarita@d154-20-97-88.bchsia.telus.net)
22:35.51moontigerso even tho they have a shitty OS they get load sof apps for it
22:35.53lcukwell - .net isnt so hot on the docs side
22:35.57moontigercos developing for it actually works
22:36.06moontiger*mostly*
22:36.06lcuklaughed out loud
22:36.21moontigerok ok ok ... MS HAD great tools
22:36.29moontigervs2008 is crap too
22:36.35derfAs long as you didn't ever want to use any libraries not provided by MS.
22:36.35lcuk:) agreed 100%
22:37.20derfAnd didn't mind that half the API MS does provide does things it's not documented to do, or doesn't do things it is documented to do, or simply fails to work for odd reasons.
22:37.29*** join/#maemo lele (n=lele@2a01:2d8:42:42:21a:92ff:fe28:ff59)
22:37.29lcuksince coming to linux i am shocked by how far from "standard" code microsoft has gotten, having to use specific microsoft libraries for things which already work nicely on multiple operating systems
22:37.40derfI find it truly amazing that any Windows software gets written at all.
22:37.55lcukits because ms software is available
22:37.57moontigerwell clearly you are missing something there derf
22:38.08moontigercos a whole crap load gets written all the time
22:38.20moontigersimply because the tool chain is there and works
22:38.40derfI hate to break it to you, but that is in no way the reason.
22:38.44moontigereven coding for smartfones and pdas works
22:38.46GAN800our toolchain is immature.
22:38.59moontigerderf ... then what is?
22:39.02lcukand activex talks to all the main apps in windows - its fairly simply to mashup something
22:39.09GAN800Mobile Linux is only really a recent phenomenon.
22:39.26GAN800WTF is a 'fone'?
22:39.27moontigerGAN800, my issue is with nokia
22:39.29derfIn the beginning there was no competition, and the tools were given away for free.
22:39.33lcukmoontiger, not very well - i hated that i could not get near the metal with .shit compact, it ran too slowly when i KNEW it could go faster
22:39.34derfIt didn't matter how much they sucked.
22:39.45lcukhence me getting this n810 and making it do what I want
22:39.49derfAfter that, there was a whole lot of money involved.
22:40.13moontigerderf, granted to some extent ... but the tools are superior
22:40.17derfI could've been paid a whole lot to put up with MS crap all day long, but after trying it out for a while, I decided this was not how I wanted to develop software.
22:40.26moontigerme either
22:40.32moontigerbut the tools are better is all im saying
22:40.39derfI'm saying you're wrong.
22:40.43moontigerand the docs are better (except .NOT)
22:40.50moontigerhmmmmmmmmmm really
22:40.56*** join/#maemo john_G (n=john@host86-162-189-58.range86-162.btcentralplus.com)
22:41.02moontigerso whats the equiv of vs6 on linux?
22:41.16derfThe docs may be much more extensive... when they are not completely wrong. They are also often totally useless unless you already know what you're looking for.
22:41.26lcukderf, i think moontiger means better as in streamlined, linux toolchain is better because it works on more systems
22:41.29moontigerthats the case with all docs
22:41.57lcukits easy for someone to install visual studio x edition, and click the play button
22:42.19lcukin linux, the toolchain config and preparation work involves understanding a whole lot more (which isnt a bad thing)
22:42.23*** join/#maemo dtatulea (n=dragos@89.39.0.50)
22:42.40lcukso people coming from windows pull their hair out for a while until they "get it "
22:42.41dtatuleahi
22:42.46derfWell, in Linux, your distro will usually come with the whole toolchain installed.
22:43.00moontigerlcuk, i agree and i think ive made it over the hair pulling stage
22:43.04lcukyes, but hidden away inside multiple levels of archaic incantations
22:43.16lcukwindows users fear the console
22:43.25lcukstill has nightmares
22:43.33moontigerwhat i find really annoying is companies like nokia releasing a product and not having supporting docs and tools available
22:43.42lcukmoontiger, they HAVE though
22:43.51GAN8001That was part of the point, though.
22:43.52glassmoontiger: nokia is not so bad in that regard
22:43.53dtatuleaSomehow I managed to get my internal mem card to mount as read-only (n810). I can't unmount it (it's being used by something else). Any suggestions please?
22:43.53moontigerlcuk, they dont work
22:43.53derflcuk: You have to learn plenty of archaic crap to develop for Windows, it's just different archaic crap.
22:43.58glassmoontiger: compared to others
22:44.02lcuki was under the impression scratchbox itself is partially supported/sponsored by nokia
22:44.04GAN8001They're not Apple, they didn't want to release a 100% polished product
22:44.08derfLike dealing with the 18 versions of libc MS has (all incompatible).
22:44.13GAN8001They wanted to involve the community in making an awesome product.
22:44.24GAN8001dtatulea, it's corrupt.
22:44.25glassGAN8001: apple doesn't relase 100% polished products....
22:44.32lcukderf, agreed - but you only find that stuff out after you have deployed for the first time
22:44.34moontigerGAN800, thats great but they should .... you know ... SUPPORT the community too no?
22:44.36GAN8001glass, well, of course.
22:44.36dtatuleaGAN8001: really?
22:44.41GAN8001But that's their GOAL
22:44.49derflcuk: I would also argue that that's bad.
22:45.01lcukyes derf, again agreed
22:45.13moontigerGAN800, when they make an OPEN product they should make it OPEN
22:45.28moontigerthen they dont have to worry bout keeping tools up to date cos the community can do it
22:45.46moontigerbut when they keep stuff hidden and closed and STILL dont update stuff its really annoying
22:45.49GAN8001The TOOLS are open.
22:45.54lcukmoontiger, no amount of money will cure the toolchain flow overnight
22:45.59moontigerright
22:46.07lcukhowever lots has been done over the last couple of years to get us to os2008
22:46.10moontigerbut sbox for example DOESNT work
22:46.14lcukit does
22:46.19moontigerno it doesnt
22:46.25lcukwhat fails on yours now
22:46.27GAN8001Lots of people use it without issue.
22:46.39moontigeri get a crap looking emulator with no apps or stuff installed and a whole bunch of errors everytime i start anything
22:46.53pupnikwhat emulator?
22:46.56moontigersbox
22:46.57lcukok, compile for ARMEL and put it on your device
22:47.07pupniki'm like the pavolovian dog with that word.. :/
22:47.11pupnikok
22:47.13moontigerbut the point of sbox is to have a test env
22:47.25derfJust because Nokia won't let you use the full NIT software environment in sbox is no reason to say sbox is crap.
22:47.29lcuksbox is the compilation environment, xephyr is the emulator.  do not use xephyr unless you have no device
22:47.47moontigeror you're writing a home screen applet
22:47.53GAN8001fwiw, there's work ongoing for full device emulation.
22:48.01robinkkulve: Is there an update of ogg-support for diablo in the works?
22:48.40moontigerim just saying its annoying ... esp when having a bad dev day :|
22:49.07joshinWhat do I add to the .desktop file to get an app to open in fullscreen?
22:49.34moontigerjoshin ... look at the mediabox desktop file
22:49.34lcukjoshin, an app you have written, or a custom app someone else wrote?
22:50.05joshinMy own 'app' which is really a shell script that connects to and opens a VNC window.
22:50.08dtatuleaOkay, found the solution. Now I only have to umount the drive. It seems that it's being used. How can I diagnose who is using the drive? (no applications running)
22:50.09joshinWill do moontiger
22:50.34sp3000misses context, confuses moontiger for a dance
22:51.16moontigerrofl
22:51.24joshinheh
22:51.33moontigermutters and grumbles and gets over herself
22:52.04pupnikjoshin: does the VNC client support a fullscreen command-line option?
22:52.13pupnikif not, you're prolly out of luck, afaik
22:52.37sp3000something like moonwalk except with pouncing, I imagin
22:52.39sp3000e
22:53.07lcukand roaring
22:53.21moontigerpounces and walks backwards
22:53.24mikkov_starting in fullscreen isn't .desktop issue, but application issue
22:53.27GAN8001Bugs #3655 and #3655 can't possibly not be dupes, can they?
22:53.51lcukGAN800, without proper links i cannot tell, xchat wants to open chans with those idents
22:54.08sp3000GAN8001: no, bugzilla won't let you do that :P
22:54.21pupnikhope next tablet has somewhat faster wlan
22:54.31GAN8001sp3000, we've done that one too many times now. . . .
22:54.35GAN8001#3656
22:55.09GAN8001https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3656 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3655
22:55.12GAN8001lcuk ^ :P
22:55.19GAN8001I could go for a bugbot
22:55.22pupnikor maybe 'wireless usb'
22:55.29sp3000gets linkification on 'bug nnn'
22:55.35lcukcan we teach the bot to automatically do that for hashed numbers?
22:55.36sp3000insults clients that don't do that
22:55.43sp3000would mind a bugbot either though
22:55.52GAN8001I was testing one for a while, then he filed up my drive with 100GB of logs in about 24 hours.
22:56.04GAN8001lcuk, there's mozbot and a supybot plugin
22:56.09lcukyou arent meant to log the whole of freenode
22:56.11GAN8001Somebody besides me needs to set it up, though.
22:56.31lcukwhos the owner of our bot
22:56.36lcuk~lart botwranglers
22:56.36infobotpries botwranglers's back open with a screwdriver and flashes a new bootldr to botwranglers
22:56.40lcukinfobot..
22:56.43GAN8001TimRiker
22:56.49GAN8001infobot is in a bunch of channels
22:56.54GAN8001We'd need a maemo-exclussive bot.
22:56.57lcukahhh k
22:57.05GAN8001http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:maemo.org_IRC_feeds
22:57.07sp3000http://www.psychoticwolf.net/projects/firebot/ is the one running in moznet/firefox and others in those parts
22:57.11lcuklike hijacking marius's
22:57.11GAN8001If somebody wants to pick it up. . . .
22:59.01lcukducks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZsyKq77_5s
22:59.51sp3000truth in advertising
23:03.00GAN8001hopes we get some leaked N900 spyshots soon.
23:03.41lcukGAN800, how do we know its gonna be an n900
23:03.55lcukwe have already seen spy shots of the nokia tablet thingy havent we
23:04.10GAN8001Er, which?
23:04.19GAN8001Oh, that Tube BS?
23:04.38GAN8001Or do you mean the N810 shots from July 2007? :P
23:04.59glasstube? the symbian touch thing?
23:05.13glassnot much to do with maemo?
23:05.24GAN8001I dunno what lcuk's on about.
23:06.13MakeGhonext year's april fool's: nokia internet tablets switching to symbian
23:06.27GAN8001I'd die
23:06.31GAN8001or make somebody else die.
23:08.23lcukyes, the tube thing but now i look more closely ill shut up :)
23:13.45mavhcat least symbian can multitask
23:14.03lcukdoes nokia not multitask?
23:14.17lcukis sure he can listen to music whilst sshing and running liqbase
23:15.16GAN8001A helluva lot better than Symbian can multitask
23:15.22GAN8001I'm not sure what we're comparing to here, though.
23:22.04ShadowJKthe s40 "nokia os" vs s60 symbian?
23:26.02GAN8001That really doesn't make sense in the context of the discussion.
23:26.55ShadowJKyeah
23:27.07ShadowJK"at least symbian can multitask", wtf?
23:27.15ShadowJKcompared to what
23:40.03*** join/#maemo smackpotato1 (n=user@bas4-sudbury98-1177812097.dsl.bell.ca)
23:47.57GAN8001Always defeated by lack of tools
23:48.01GAN8001First thing when I get a house
23:48.08GAN8001Fill a giant workshop with lots and lots of tools.
23:57.22*** join/#maemo fUD (n=bbills@apnnew9.lnk.telstra.net)
23:57.25fUDHi
23:57.49fUDIm getting an invalid wep key length when trying to connect to my macbook which has internet sharing
23:58.50GAN8001Are you confusing ASCII and HEX?
23:59.02*** join/#maemo benh (n=benh@nat/ibm/x-6c64b2feff63233f)
23:59.22fUDWell I have a text key
23:59.28fUDShould I be doing something with that key?
23:59.31GAN8001OS X will show you a plaintext key
23:59.35GAN8001but it's actually HEX
23:59.41fUDOh right
23:59.46fUDHow can I convert it :)
23:59.49GAN8001So you need to enter the hex version on the tablet.
23:59.55GAN8001It should do it for you, actually,

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