| 00:00.07 | GeneralAntilles | kills himself. http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=203011#post203011 |
| 00:00.10 | GeneralAntilles | hunkers down for another iPhone thread. |
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| 00:13.36 | draco_ | Is there any change log for diablo |
| 00:14.05 | mouser- | Yeah, sort of, one second, draco_ |
| 00:14.10 | GeneralAntilles | Hahaha |
| 00:14.19 | GeneralAntilles | draco_, https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&target_milestone=4.1&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=CLOSED |
| 00:14.23 | GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/os2008_feature_upgrade-reflash_your_tablet-for_the_last_time.html |
| 00:14.34 | GeneralAntilles | draco_, somebody just asked that exact question 5 minutes ago. |
| 00:15.33 | draco_ | Why dont you put it on topic with tinyurl link? |
| 00:15.41 | GeneralAntilles | Because the topic is big enough |
| 00:15.51 | GeneralAntilles | and it's not really all that useful |
| 00:16.10 | mouser- | Also here, draco_: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/changes/23-14_vs_50-2_changes.html |
| 00:16.12 | draco_ | Eh |
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| 00:17.25 | draco_ | Btw is there any gtk+ patch that makes scrollbars usable forf left handed? |
| 00:17.50 | GeneralAntilles | draco_, there was a thread, like, 8 hours ago on internettablettalk.com |
| 00:17.57 | GeneralAntilles | It'll come up in search for "lefties" |
| 00:18.15 | draco_ | If not it would be my first hacking experience for maemo |
| 00:18.28 | GeneralAntilles | It's really easy for the browser |
| 00:18.33 | GeneralAntilles | other stuff is a little more involved. |
| 00:18.48 | GeneralAntilles | http://kb.mozillazine.org/Layout.scrollbar.side |
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| 00:19.25 | GeneralAntilles | ~diablo-changelog Announcement: http://tinyurl.com/6k7q7q Version chart: http://tinyurl.com/5duv6t Bugzilla: http://tinyurl.com/68bffr |
| 00:19.31 | GeneralAntilles | ~diablo-changelog is Announcement: http://tinyurl.com/6k7q7q Version chart: http://tinyurl.com/5duv6t Bugzilla: http://tinyurl.com/68bffr |
| 00:19.32 | infobot | GeneralAntilles: okay |
| 00:20.12 | draco_ | A generic gtk patch would do it, doesn't it? |
| 00:20.42 | GeneralAntilles | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=202646#post202646 |
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| 00:21.34 | draco_ | I'll check it out thanks |
| 00:24.59 | rm_you | So, to anyone who actually speaks French fluently: which makes more sense to you: "Avis aux utilisateurs N800!", "Utilisateurs de N800: méfiance!", "Utilisateurs de N800 Attention!", or "N800 utilisateurs méfiez-vous!"? |
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| 00:25.17 | rm_you | the original English being "N800 users beware!: |
| 00:25.19 | rm_you | the original English being "N800 users beware!" |
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| 00:36.52 | crashanddie | rm_you, first one |
| 00:37.07 | rm_you | k |
| 00:37.20 | rm_you | everyone keeps wanting to change it |
| 00:37.24 | crashanddie | rm_you, what's the whole sentence though ? |
| 00:37.30 | rm_you | that is the whole sentences |
| 00:37.34 | crashanddie | and where do you want to change it ? |
| 00:37.42 | crashanddie | rm_you, yeah, but what's the context ? |
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| 00:38.13 | crashanddie | rm_you, "N800 users beware the lochness monster will eat you if you don't have your afternoon tea" |
| 00:38.26 | rm_you | something like that |
| 00:38.43 | crashanddie | prenez garde |
| 00:39.00 | crashanddie | "Avis aux utilisateurs des n800: Prenez garde!" |
| 00:39.15 | jga23 | anybody know of a subversion client that will work with diablo? |
| 00:39.56 | crashanddie | rm_you, take that last one |
| 00:40.18 | rm_you | lol |
| 00:40.33 | crashanddie | rm_you, link ? |
| 00:40.35 | Edgester | crashanddie: thanks for the FAKEROOTKEY tip, but it the build still compains with the same error :( |
| 00:40.55 | crashanddie | Edgester, I've no clue really, was just a google answer |
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| 00:41.52 | secureendpoints | Why would there be a fetching of an ACL? I already told you, when the cache manager obtained the AFSFetchStatus structure for the file, it received the CallerAccess and AnonymousAccess values. Those are the values checked in src/afs/VNOPS/afs_vnop_access.c afs_GetAccessBits() |
| 00:42.16 | secureendpoints | oops, wrong window |
| 00:42.27 | crashanddie | secureendpoints, right, that makes sense now |
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| 00:50.21 | rm_you | :P |
| 00:50.24 | Zetx | rm_you: why? |
| 00:50.38 | rm_you | cuz you have an n800, so why not? |
| 00:50.43 | Zetx | lol true |
| 00:51.06 | Zetx | i keep forgetting to upgrade to diablo (is the final out or whatever?) |
| 00:51.35 | rm_you | yes |
| 00:51.38 | rm_you | you should flash now |
| 00:51.44 | rm_you | and then put your root on SD |
| 00:51.44 | Zetx | yeah |
| 00:51.50 | rm_you | what SD card you have |
| 00:52.15 | Zetx | a 4gb sandisk and the default... whatever |
| 00:52.19 | rm_you | heh |
| 00:52.31 | rm_you | is it 128mb? |
| 00:52.39 | rm_you | i think you can fit root on that? >_> |
| 00:52.47 | rm_you | kinda lame tho |
| 00:53.06 | rm_you | lol no, my root is 643 mb |
| 00:53.11 | rm_you | i wonder what i have thats using all that space |
| 00:53.22 | Zetx | yeah, 128 |
| 00:53.43 | Zetx | i'll get a card when i get some ram for the thinkpad... |
| 00:53.46 | Zetx | once i order it all |
| 00:54.17 | Zetx | and a bluetooth keyboard |
| 00:54.18 | Zetx | man |
| 00:55.23 | rm_you | heh |
| 00:55.36 | rm_you | what job you got? what ya making? |
| 00:55.45 | rm_you | that's very expensive >_> |
| 00:55.59 | Zetx | yeah :| |
| 00:56.39 | GeneralAntilles | jga23, http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/s/subversion/ |
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| 00:57.42 | rm_you | <_< |
| 01:01.17 | GeneralAntilles | Mmm |
| 01:01.24 | GeneralAntilles | I haven't had a fast food burger in forever. |
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| 01:02.31 | rm_you | i had one like, yesterday |
| 01:02.33 | rm_you | overrated |
| 01:02.41 | GeneralAntilles | Of course |
| 01:02.52 | GeneralAntilles | but they're good when you eat 'em once every 2-3 months. |
| 01:03.33 | rm_you | not really >_< |
| 01:03.51 | rm_you | had one for the first time in over a year, and thought it was bleh |
| 01:03.58 | rm_you | though that was McDonalds, so bleh |
| 01:04.04 | GeneralAntilles | Oh pfft |
| 01:04.09 | GeneralAntilles | McDonalds is the worst. |
| 01:04.09 | rm_you | IIRC, Jack in the Box is good |
| 01:04.26 | GeneralAntilles | Yes it is. |
| 01:04.30 | GeneralAntilles | One of the best |
| 01:04.39 | GeneralAntilles | I like Wendy's, too. |
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| 01:05.58 | derf | Screw that, it's all about Five Guys. |
| 01:06.42 | rm_you | dont think i've had a wendy's burner in 10+ years |
| 01:06.44 | rm_you | possibly ever |
| 01:06.52 | rm_you | i dont think I've ever GONE to a wendys |
| 01:07.05 | GeneralAntilles | Wendy's has great everything |
| 01:07.18 | rm_you | it would have been dinner picked up by my parents when i was like 10 or younger |
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| 01:07.29 | GeneralAntilles | You get Chick-fil-A up there? |
| 01:07.34 | rm_you | no but in TX |
| 01:07.38 | rm_you | it is delicious |
| 01:07.41 | rm_you | though overpriced |
| 01:07.45 | rm_you | and closed on Sunday is BS |
| 01:07.53 | GeneralAntilles | Ha |
| 01:08.01 | rm_you | fscking religious southern states |
| 01:08.26 | GeneralAntilles | I used to go there every morning at 5 AM before school. |
| 01:08.39 | rm_you | <_< |
| 01:08.41 | rm_you | so expensive |
| 01:08.50 | rm_you | it's like, 3x as expensive as other fast food |
| 01:09.02 | GeneralAntilles | Eh, lower percentage of the meal is grease. ;) |
| 01:09.03 | GeneralAntilles | It works out. |
| 01:09.24 | rm_you | heh |
| 01:10.45 | jga23 | GeneralAntilles: I tried to install that, but its missing libssl, should I just install that from chinook as well? |
| 01:11.03 | GeneralAntilles | jga23, you could do that, or maybe play with the control file |
| 01:11.19 | GeneralAntilles | There shouldn't be anything different enough about .98 to warrant needing .97 |
| 01:18.52 | yerga | bahh, diablo extras isn't going updated from more than 15 hours, will be it a bug? |
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| 01:23.31 | GeneralAntilles | Hrm, rootsh was added this morning and seems to be in there now. |
| 01:24.52 | yerga | yes, the .debs are there |
| 01:24.59 | yerga | but the packages file isn't updated |
| 01:25.10 | GeneralAntilles | rootsh is in the Packages now |
| 01:25.20 | GeneralAntilles | It took a while, though. . . . |
| 01:27.02 | yerga | it could be problem mine |
| 01:27.24 | yerga | I don't find rootsh in the packages |
| 01:27.33 | yerga | not apt-get |
| 01:28.19 | GeneralAntilles | Hrm, I lied. |
| 01:28.26 | GeneralAntilles | It's in Extras-devel packages, but not Extras. |
| 01:28.52 | yerga | ok, extras-devel is fine |
| 01:29.36 | GeneralAntilles | I guess file a bug and maybe assign it to X-Fade. |
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| 01:42.06 | jga23 | GeneralAntilles: you mean just grab the source and change the control file before the deb is created? |
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| 01:48.12 | xnt | hello how do i access the status led on the nokia n810 via a /dev file? im trying to write a shell script & i want to access the led. |
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| 01:53.04 | xnt | is it something like echo 1 > /dev/led0 ? |
| 01:54.06 | yerga | xnt, you need to do it with dbus |
| 01:54.16 | yerga | but I can't help you very much |
| 01:54.29 | yerga | because I really don't know |
| 01:54.29 | xnt | oh ok |
| 01:54.38 | GeneralAntilles | jga23, that, or unpack and repack it |
| 01:55.06 | GeneralAntilles | xnt, jott has a little python application up somewhere that demonstrates it. |
| 01:55.17 | xnt | i see something in /sys/devices/system/leds0 |
| 01:55.23 | xnt | oh |
| 01:55.25 | GeneralAntilles | http://sse2.net/ledcolor.py |
| 01:55.32 | xnt | thanks |
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| 02:06.05 | yerga | GeneralAntilles, please assigne to Niels: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3453 |
| 02:06.14 | yerga | I haven't editbugs yet |
| 02:10.49 | GeneralAntilles | Done, thanks yerga. |
| 02:11.05 | yerga | thanks to you ;) |
| 02:21.56 | GeneralAntilles | yerga, if you're not ready for editbugs, you should at least get canconfirm. ;) |
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| 03:03.03 | rm_you | are there plans to upgrade the Garage servers? |
| 03:08.32 | GeneralAntilles | Yes, rm_you. |
| 03:09.00 | GeneralAntilles | https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Fast_Server |
| 03:09.14 | GeneralAntilles | Probably a month or so away |
| 03:09.22 | GeneralAntilles | dependent on the Finnish vacation period ending. |
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| 03:13.13 | dougt | how does one determine idle time on maemo? |
| 03:13.26 | dougt | where idle time is the amount of time there hasn't been user input? |
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| 03:22.09 | dougt | normally on X, you would ask the xss |
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| 03:24.19 | DHR | rm_you: I'm thinking of reflashing my n800. You wrote earlier "you should flash now" "and then put your root on SD". Where is root-on-SD described? |
| 03:24.43 | GeneralAntilles | ~boot-sd |
| 03:24.43 | infobot | rumour has it, boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card |
| 03:25.06 | DHR | thanks |
| 03:26.40 | dougt | timeless: ^ |
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| 04:27.35 | dougt | what is the largest size media card you can buy for the n810? |
| 04:27.38 | dougt | 4gb? |
| 04:27.58 | GeneralAntilles | 8GB currently |
| 04:28.04 | GeneralAntilles | Maybe 16GB now, actually. |
| 04:29.31 | dougt | googles |
| 04:32.47 | dougt | i wonder if fry's has any. |
| 04:32.53 | dougt | will try tomorrow. |
| 04:37.08 | dougt | hey GeneralAntilles, have you ever heard of a problem between the n810 devices and various routers? |
| 04:37.24 | GeneralAntilles | Crappy routers that don't properly support PSM, yes. |
| 04:37.30 | dougt | PSM? |
| 04:37.36 | GeneralAntilles | power saving mode |
| 04:37.56 | dougt | talk to me about this? i see this _ALL_OF_THE_TIME_ |
| 04:38.08 | dougt | i am using a air port extreme. |
| 04:38.13 | dougt | mac router. |
| 04:38.19 | johnx | ahaha...ah, the pain of apple routers |
| 04:38.25 | johnx | I had to deal with one at a previous job |
| 04:38.47 | johnx | turn power saving on your n8x0 to "off" or "intermediate" in the connection settings -> advanced dialog |
| 04:38.58 | GeneralAntilles | Beware, it'll kill battery life. |
| 04:39.16 | dougt | i don't care about battery life. |
| 04:39.22 | johnx | or, replace your router |
| 04:39.27 | dougt | yeah. |
| 04:39.31 | dougt | draft-n is fast. |
| 04:39.47 | dougt | but yeah. |
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| 04:44.38 | johnx | dougt, make sure your airport is up to the latest software/firmware version available for it, too |
| 04:45.14 | dougt | thanks in advance guys. You have saved me a 2 minute walk daily from my desk to over where the router is. |
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| 04:53.50 | dougt | take thanks back! |
| 04:53.52 | dougt | :-) |
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| 06:10.54 | jga23 | GeneralAntilles: how do I repackage a deb file? I have the modified control and data tar.gz, what compression method is deb? |
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| 06:17.57 | acydlord | oh man, defcon is making me cut it very close on funding |
| 06:18.58 | solmumaha | jga23: ar -r packagename.deb debian-binary control.tar.gz data.tar.gz |
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| 06:28.02 | jga23 | solmumaha: thanks |
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| 06:34.14 | jga23 | solmumaha: the control.tar.gz has a . directory in there, how would I make an archive with that? |
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| 06:34.49 | jga23 | solmumaha: basically what I'm trying to do is change the requirements for subversion to use libssl0.9.8 |
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| 06:37.04 | qwerty12 | It may just be easier to recompile it in the diablo sdk: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/source/s/subversion/ |
| 06:39.00 | jga23 | I haven't had a chance to set up my scratchbox on my new laptop |
| 06:41.19 | qwerty12 | My scratchbox is tied up atm, but here is the depends line changed from libssl0.9.7 to 0.9.8: http://www.mediafire.com/?z3byw2l9ewl |
| 06:41.41 | qwerty12 | You may need to symlink libssl if it doesn't work. |
| 06:44.36 | jga23 | thanks qwerty12 |
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| 06:48.35 | jga23 | qwerty12: got it |
| 06:48.46 | qwerty12 | cool |
| 06:48.50 | jga23 | had to symlink libssl and libcrypto |
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| 07:16.17 | X-Fade | morning |
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| 07:25.28 | Count | hello |
| 07:27.04 | avs | Guys - if anyone will be at Black Hat or Defcon and wants to meet with Maemo's Nokia side security guys, let me know. |
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| 07:35.39 | Deka | http://www.b3tards.com/u/aaeae71fb400d28f0864/crash800.jpg |
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| 07:38.45 | gomiam | Deka: someone crashed against a Google tag? |
| 07:38.54 | Deka | Ya |
| 07:39.33 | tank-man | lol |
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| 07:39.52 | Deka | Ya, those dang things are everywhere now |
| 07:41.06 | avs | I heard someone actually built one so that it is visible in aerial photos, so you can see it in the satellite view |
| 07:43.02 | XTLi | If you built, say decss or such or even cp big enough, would they censor it? |
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| 07:44.20 | avs | or a copyright text |
| 07:45.01 | GeneralAntilles | Hrm, we could really use a Hacker Edition article for the wiki. |
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| 07:51.56 | GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, poke. |
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| 07:56.23 | hrhr | hi all, where I can find developer of gpe-pim for maemo? |
| 07:57.27 | XTLi | The packager should be in the pkg headers |
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| 07:57.53 | XTLi | And devs in the sources |
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| 07:59.22 | XTLi | (Graham Cobb?) |
| 07:59.52 | hrhr | do you know him? |
| 08:00.04 | XTLi | No |
| 08:00.08 | X-Fade | XTLi: Graham visits this channel sometimes. |
| 08:00.26 | X-Fade | XTLi: Do you have a maemo specific question/problem? |
| 08:00.43 | XTLi | No? |
| 08:00.56 | XTLi | Hrhr there asked |
| 08:00.59 | X-Fade | Ehm, that was for hrhr ;) |
| 08:01.09 | XTLi | :) |
| 08:01.22 | X-Fade | Sorry, pre-coffee here :D |
| 08:02.19 | XTLi | In-coffee + flapjack here :) |
| 08:02.47 | XTLi | Should start getting something done |
| 08:06.57 | GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, I think I want a .install for Extras-devel. |
| 08:07.15 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Look closer ;) |
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| 08:07.41 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: I think it is already there? |
| 08:08.14 | GeneralAntilles | https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/install/extras-devel.install |
| 08:08.15 | GeneralAntilles | Not there |
| 08:08.19 | GeneralAntilles | doesn't have better ideas. |
| 08:08.33 | tank-man | what is extras devel for? dev packages to compile on the NIT ? |
| 08:08.46 | GeneralAntilles | tank-man, it's a testing repository. |
| 08:08.56 | GeneralAntilles | alpha, pre-alpha and beta stuff. |
| 08:08.58 | tank-man | i see |
| 08:09.12 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: It is there now ;) |
| 08:10.15 | GeneralAntilles | Perfect, thanks. |
| 08:12.26 | GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, crashanddie and jott were both asking about the possibility of using git for Garage projects. |
| 08:12.43 | *** join/#maemo sp3000 (n=tt@hoasnet-fe21dd00-183.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 08:12.43 | GeneralAntilles | But since they're both too lazy to file an enhancement request like I told them to, I'm poking you directly. |
| 08:13.23 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: That is a massive task.. |
| 08:14.04 | GeneralAntilles | Oh? |
| 08:14.55 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 08:14.59 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Intergrate it in garage, sourcecode viewer, account management, security measures, commit mails etc.. |
| 08:15.16 | Jaffa | And it's pointless toolwankery and advocacy. |
| 08:15.27 | GeneralAntilles | Ha |
| 08:15.33 | Jaffa | For the purposes which Garage is intended for, svn is absolutely the right choice, IMHO |
| 08:15.46 | X-Fade | Jaffa: Well, git itself is really cool when doing distributed development. |
| 08:16.08 | X-Fade | And merging and tracking changes it a lot better than svn. |
| 08:16.30 | Jaffa | X-Fade: but Garage isn't distributed development: it's centralised development (by defn) |
| 08:16.34 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: you poked me, btw? |
| 08:16.51 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I'm just pondering over 770Flasher -> Tablet Flasher. |
| 08:17.04 | X-Fade | Jaffa: Well, you can have a central branch. But git is really cool in preventing bitrot of a non-committed patch. |
| 08:17.27 | Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: I'm playing with getting a small OS X partition up to do just that *cough* |
| 08:17.34 | GeneralAntilles | Ha |
| 08:17.45 | Jaffa | But my previous efforts had no networking so it got blown away through misuse. |
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| 08:18.08 | Jaffa | If it works, I'll dust off XCode and try and even do it properly |
| 08:18.58 | GeneralAntilles | Ooh, fanoush is gonna open a Garage project for community kernels. |
| 08:19.10 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: He already did. |
| 08:19.13 | hrhr | X-Fade: sorry, I have question about gpe contacts and it localization |
| 08:19.33 | XTLi | I'm not too keen on svn either. |
| 08:19.37 | GeneralAntilles | maemo.org has really been moving along nicely in the last few months. :D |
| 08:19.59 | XTLi | Seems it's a common choice. Certainy nicer than cvs in many ways |
| 08:20.00 | X-Fade | hrhr: I think you can ask your question on -developers. Graham certainly reads that. |
| 08:20.53 | GeneralAntilles | Getting some prebuilt N800 and N810 kernels into Extra-devel would be pretty cool. |
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| 09:21.32 | lcuk_work | wiggles his wires about |
| 09:21.43 | zap | Anybody knows what the penalty for -mabi=softfp vs -mabi=hard is, when using -mfpu=vfp? |
| 09:22.17 | lcuk_work | zap, doesnt that depend upon the amount of fp you are doing in your program |
| 09:22.44 | kulve | zap: yeah, depends on totally what you are doing, but: http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2008/05/17/gcc-options-and-floating-point/ |
| 09:23.00 | kulve | that does some very simple fp calculations only |
| 09:23.07 | zap | kulve: cool, I was looking for your page but forgot the url :) |
| 09:24.04 | lcuk_work | kulve, cool page :) |
| 09:24.12 | zap | kulve: hmm, why no benchmark for -mfpu-vfp -mabi=hard ? |
| 09:24.36 | zap | ah, I see: "vfp.c:1: sorry, unimplemented: -mfloat-abi=hard and VFP" |
| 09:24.41 | zap | %-O |
| 09:24.42 | zap | :) |
| 09:26.08 | lcuk_work | zap, with the thumb/full modes if i have a few modules with specific fp functions can i compile those modules using full vfp but leave the rest compiled to use thumb? |
| 09:26.13 | lcuk_work | if that makes sense |
| 09:26.34 | zap | I'm not sure fpu can be accessed in thumb mode |
| 09:27.14 | lcuk_work | thats what i mean, and thats the default for general code isnt it? smallest binary and all that |
| 09:28.09 | trickie | hmmm i applied to Frantisek's kernel project at the garage (to become a member of the group) and i automatically became an admin |
| 09:28.12 | trickie | is that normal? |
| 09:28.35 | lcuk_work | lol trickie, it depends what they accept you as |
| 09:28.44 | lcuk_work | i think i almost let GeneralAntilles become god |
| 09:28.50 | trickie | he he |
| 09:29.11 | X-Fade | trickie: No, the admin has to manually set your role. |
| 09:29.44 | trickie | ok, so maybe he made me one... i have told him before that I have a few patches for the project |
| 09:30.05 | zap | lcuk_work: I don't have experience with thumb code anyway |
| 09:30.18 | X-Fade | trickie: You could interpret it as a cry for help ;) |
| 09:30.21 | zap | but it's not default anyway |
| 09:30.25 | lcuk_work | trickie, patch the entire program with void main(){ while(1){ printf("Trickie rulez!!!\n"); } } |
| 09:30.37 | trickie | he he |
| 09:30.56 | trickie | X-Fade: yeah he seems busy now... got a new family member... |
| 09:31.04 | trickie | ill try and get some time to put into it |
| 09:31.07 | zap | kulve: so it looks like there's no point to use -mfpu=vfp at all? |
| 09:31.36 | X-Fade | trickie: It would be really cool if we can provide community kernels in extras-devel ;) |
| 09:31.45 | trickie | for sure |
| 09:31.46 | lcuk_work | zap, i thought it was: at least for nokia released source - and the context switch between full/thumb takes time so its better to stay in thumb. not sure where i read that and i might be wrong |
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| 09:32.04 | kulve | zap: even if it's now default, it might not be in the next toolchain.. |
| 09:32.09 | zap | lcuk_work: thumb mode has very limited use, and I never seen on any platform it to be the default |
| 09:32.10 | kulve | bbl |
| 09:32.46 | zap | lcuk_work: it's like 16-bit mode on x86; every CPU has it but almost nobody uses it |
| 09:32.58 | lcuk_work | thumb isnt limited, its simply 16bit opcode: like 68k. its just not got all the super cool do 10 related things per opcode stuff |
| 09:33.15 | lcuk_work | (that fullmode has) |
| 09:33.20 | zap | it is limited because you can access only R0-R7 in thumb mode |
| 09:33.30 | zap | and limited access to R14 and R15 |
| 09:33.31 | lcuk_work | exactly, like 68k |
| 09:33.43 | zap | well I don't know 68k |
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| 09:34.04 | lcuk_work | feels comfortable with thumb |
| 09:34.14 | zap | not being able to use all registers is what I call limited |
| 09:35.09 | lcuk_work | its very hard to make use of the 32bit opcodes to their fullest and so you still end up wasting time by needing to use 64bits of code to do what 32 would manage |
| 09:35.32 | lcuk_work | but anyway, i understand - when it works, it works well |
| 09:41.14 | lcuk_work | http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2007/02/14/n800-and-gcc-options/ http://syslog.movial.fi/archives/46-N800-VFP-or-not-to-VFP.html |
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| 10:01.07 | zap | lcuk_work: 90% applications will gain from more registers |
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| 10:02.06 | zap | and 32-bit ARM has a very nice instruction set, don't see why not use it |
| 10:03.59 | lcuk_work | read the post i put, things use thumb by default |
| 10:04.15 | zap | ? |
| 10:04.23 | zap | this can't be true |
| 10:05.26 | zap | do a 'file /bin/busybox' |
| 10:05.40 | zap | it says ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, blah |
| 10:06.05 | zap | although of course they could switch to thumb mode after init |
| 10:06.21 | lcuk_work | you can have an ELF with 32bit alignment by all means |
| 10:06.30 | lcuk_work | that does not mean the cpu operating mode |
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| 10:07.01 | lcuk_work | 32bit alignment was recommended even in amiga days, its simp[ly the fastest way to access memory |
| 10:07.01 | prometoys | hi, where can i get information about the different distributions? I have a new n810 with os2008, but not the newest. and i am totally confused |
| 10:07.43 | zap | lcuk_work: when it says 32-bit it means 32-bit instructions |
| 10:08.15 | wnd | I think "recommended" is an understatement :-) |
| 10:08.16 | zap | On a 64-bit CPU: /bin/bash: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64 |
| 10:08.31 | lcuk_work | lol wnd |
| 10:08.43 | zap | lcuk_work: besides, looking at the file with my own eyes I clearly see it's not thumb |
| 10:09.30 | lcuk_work | zap, what file? its entirely possible things have changed since the kulve etc investigations up there |
| 10:09.38 | zap | /bin/busybox\ |
| 10:09.41 | lcuk_work | or you are looking at your own file |
| 10:09.59 | zap | hmm, the beginning looks ARM 32-bit but then comes something strange |
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| 10:10.33 | trickie | lcuk_work: file is a utility to determine file type |
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| 10:11.09 | GAN800 | prometoys, wikipedia is a good start. . . . |
| 10:11.33 | lcuk_work | yes, but i thought an ELF was a container file and the sections within contain different kinds of data: a 32bit ELF can contain data and code blocks using totally different modes |
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| 10:13.04 | zap | yes thats true, and gcc mixes 32-bit and thumb code |
| 10:13.13 | zap | you can go back and forth at any point |
| 10:14.47 | lcuk_work | yes agreed: at the function level you can choose which mode it needs to be. but look at the links: when compiled in vfp (ie not thumb) things run a bit faster at the expense of memory and space. |
| 10:15.27 | lcuk_work | space is the big one here |
| 10:15.36 | zap | well at least I can say thumb is not the default for the compiler: the binaries compiled by me are clearly 32-bit |
| 10:16.42 | lcuk_work | if you are still looking at the container then yes, but i would hazard a guess that even a fully compiled thumb binary would be marked as 32bit |
| 10:17.21 | zap | nope, I'm looking at the hexdump of the executable (via mc on tablet). 32-bit code has a very specific look |
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| 10:17.41 | zap | most 32-bit commands begins with E |
| 10:18.00 | zap | those are the condition bits iirc |
| 10:18.23 | XTLi | "I no longer really see the hex anymore. All I see is 32b, thumb, data..." |
| 10:18.41 | lcuk_work | did you see the woman in the red dress? |
| 10:19.10 | lcuk_work | get gcc to export asm and look properly, i gotta go |
| 10:19.43 | zap | maemopad+ is also pure 32-bit |
| 10:19.55 | zap | so even if busybox is thumb, it was explicitly set in gcc options |
| 10:20.35 | zap | libc is 32-bit as well |
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| 10:40.07 | zap | "The VFP architecture also supports execution of short vector instructions allowing SIMD (Single Instruction Multiple Data) parallelism" |
| 10:40.16 | zap | damnit, what's the gain from DSP then :) |
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| 10:46.36 | RST38h | Six legged robotic sheep with grass mowing jaws and gps |
| 10:46.57 | RST38h | Somehoe I already know how it is gonna end... |
| 10:47.30 | zap | is this a new Ultimate Weapon from Pentagon? |
| 10:48.11 | zap | we already seen the four-legged Dog That You Can Bump |
| 10:48.14 | lcuk_work | as long as the enemy is grass then the military will win ;) |
| 10:48.23 | RST38h | no, it is created by some arts prof from philadelphia |
| 10:48.44 | lcuk_work | zap, i agree by the way the SIMD instructions are cool |
| 10:48.51 | RST38h | reported to make "most amusing sounds" |
| 10:49.12 | RST38h | probably something like KILL ALL HUMANS |
| 10:49.47 | RST38h | lcuk: arm simd or intel simd? |
| 10:49.55 | zap | hehe |
| 10:50.05 | zap | "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep"? |
| 10:50.10 | lcuk_work | arm, if i could have used them simply my blitter would be even faster |
| 10:50.20 | zap | this is something to ask google about |
| 10:50.48 | zap | lcuk_work: DSP and CPU shares the same bus for access to video RAM? |
| 10:51.08 | lcuk_work | video ram is standard memory |
| 10:51.44 | RST38h | lcuk: I did not find them useful:( |
| 10:51.47 | lcuk_work | the lcd controller has DMA access to it (but its not quick enough) |
| 10:51.57 | RST38h | had to do blending but no luck |
| 10:52.38 | lcuk_work | RST38h, my blitter wanted to take the largest 128bit blocks first, followed by 64bits and continuing down to the last single byte |
| 10:52.46 | zap | mmmh, interesting if VFP registers can hold 64-bit integer values |
| 10:52.49 | RST38h | lcuk: the key question is how fast vram is? let us say you write a program in asm that reads 16kb in a loop 10000 time |
| 10:53.03 | zap | this would allow to push 64 bits at once over the bus, which could be a little faster than pushing 32 bits twice |
| 10:53.04 | RST38h | how long does it take vs sdram? |
| 10:53.09 | lcuk_work | every time i attempted to move more than 32bits software segfaulted |
| 10:53.29 | lardman | what's vram? |
| 10:53.31 | zap | RST38h: these 16k will end up in CPU cache |
| 10:53.39 | lcuk_work | sdram is a "shitload" slower than the internal 2420 memory |
| 10:53.43 | zap | VRAM is video RAM - an old msx acronym :) |
| 10:53.43 | RST38h | zap: just learn to stmia :) |
| 10:53.58 | lardman | zap: the on-omap stuff, or on the lcd controller though? |
| 10:54.01 | RST38h | zap: not if you read them randomly |
| 10:54.07 | zap | RST38h: I'm not sure stmia is anything more than several str's |
| 10:54.25 | RST38h | in fact reading them in 32-byte intervls should avoid cache |
| 10:54.28 | lcuk_work | you cannot "read" the data directly back from the lcd can you? its a consumer only |
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| 10:54.37 | RST38h | zap: it is faster |
| 10:54.39 | crashanddie | the only real benchmark |
| 10:54.45 | zap | RST38h: then cool |
| 10:54.54 | zap | lcuk_work: do you use stmia in your benchmark? |
| 10:55.00 | crashanddie | is to map a certain memory size |
| 10:55.06 | RST38h | lcuk: shitload is how much? |
| 10:55.25 | RST38h | 2 times? 3 times? |
| 10:55.26 | crashanddie | and the read/write through it, while incrementing the value you write into it |
| 10:55.31 | lcuk_work | the 2420 has 5mb onboard memory that so far is essentially unused. i want to put the pvr/dsp/iva framebuffer there and blit out to main memory as required after processing |
| 10:55.41 | lcuk_work | zap, nope? |
| 10:55.48 | RST38h | how many cpu clocks does it take to fill a cache line from vram? |
| 10:55.54 | zap | lcuk_work: then possibly you could gain a couple extra FPS |
| 10:56.18 | zap | RST38h: lcuk says VRAM == RAM on OMAPs |
| 10:56.31 | lcuk_work | no i couldnt, even doing no drawing and just calling the framebuffer refresh ioctl gives 25fps |
| 10:56.33 | RST38h | zap: it is the same thing |
| 10:56.42 | lcuk_work | i get same if i draw the screen 4 times |
| 10:56.58 | RST38h | I am calling it vram because it is primarily used for screen buffer |
| 10:57.06 | lcuk_work | is GPU constrained |
| 10:57.07 | zap | lcuk_work: framebuffer refresh is executed in fb driver? |
| 10:57.27 | lcuk_work | yes, the ioctl tells the LCD controller to start transferring data |
| 10:57.41 | zap | ? |
| 10:57.48 | zap | ah, I see |
| 10:58.10 | zap | so 25fps is the constraint of the LCD -> RAM bus |
| 10:58.20 | zap | not CPU -> RAM |
| 10:58.29 | lcuk_work | yes, anything faster and you overwrite memory and get tearing |
| 10:58.39 | lcuk_work | no, the cpu can draw the screen plenty fast enough |
| 10:58.55 | RST38h | tearing is fine |
| 10:59.00 | zap | so VRAM is actually not RAM, right? |
| 10:59.02 | RST38h | at least with me |
| 10:59.18 | RST38h | zap: you are mistaking several concepts |
| 10:59.26 | zap | I want to understand |
| 10:59.27 | lcuk_work | RST38h, :) depends on what you are doing of course. tearing with page of text is not acceptable |
| 10:59.35 | zap | I feel a broken ring in the chain somewhere |
| 10:59.45 | lcuk_work | a glitch in the matrix |
| 10:59.48 | RST38h | zap: 1. memory interface to cpu |
| 10:59.52 | zap | yes |
| 11:00.00 | RST38h | zap: 2. primary memory usage |
| 11:00.06 | zap | ? |
| 11:00.12 | zap | what you mean by this |
| 11:00.13 | lcuk_work | goes again |
| 11:00.22 | RST38h | zap: 3. physical memory design |
| 11:01.15 | zap | if I understand correctly, if there's some ioctl that tells the LCD controller to pump data out of RAM to video RAM, then video RAM is physically located elsewhere |
| 11:01.15 | crashanddie | anyone seen the doctor horrible thingy ? |
| 11:01.35 | RST38h | zap: in pc world there once was a fashion to call dual port sdram "vram@ |
| 11:01.36 | crashanddie | zap, well, it wouldn't have to, per se |
| 11:01.52 | zap | otherwise the CPU could pump the data itself, and it would be faster |
| 11:02.11 | RST38h | zap: but for the rest of us vram is something that stores video buffer |
| 11:02.14 | crashanddie | yeah, but that would use CPU cycles |
| 11:02.25 | RST38h | zap: hardware wise it is probably sram |
| 11:02.48 | zap | RST38h: you think it is mapped somewhere to physical address space? |
| 11:02.58 | zap | crashanddie: we could use DSP for that, for example |
| 11:03.10 | RST38h | although I have no idea how ti squeezed 5mb sram on chip |
| 11:03.18 | lcuk_work | zap, the LCD contains its own private memory and is not accessible from the omap2420 or any user software |
| 11:03.21 | RST38h | zap: it should be |
| 11:03.28 | RST38h | probably 0x05000000 |
| 11:03.39 | lcuk_work | it simply pulls a block of memory allocated from main memory |
| 11:03.44 | RST38h | that is where arms like to have video |
| 11:03.55 | zap | so RST38h contradicts what lcuk says |
| 11:04.10 | RST38h | I am making a conjecture |
| 11:04.21 | RST38h | lcuk may know better |
| 11:04.23 | lcuk_work | there is a block of normal memory allocated to act as a framebuffer though |
| 11:04.31 | zap | %-O |
| 11:04.34 | lcuk_work | this is the block the the LCD pulls from main memory and displays |
| 11:04.38 | RST38h | lcd memory is NOT omap vram |
| 11:04.45 | zap | lcuk_work: how often? |
| 11:04.54 | lcuk_work | everytime the ioctl is called |
| 11:05.27 | zap | okay so 'framebuffer' from CPU point of view is just a block of normal SRAM |
| 11:05.35 | zap | malloc'd |
| 11:05.56 | zap | then you just set up the LCD controller to copy data from here to its internal RAM |
| 11:05.57 | zap | right? |
| 11:06.09 | lcuk_work | normal standard data on the ddr as far as i know, the SRAM is internal to the 2420 and not used if i remember rightly |
| 11:06.56 | zap | hmm, if so, perhaps SRAM could be used for framebuffer :) |
| 11:07.10 | zap | this will give a whole 5 extra Mb to apps |
| 11:07.13 | lcuk_work | no because the LCD could not access it (since its outside the 2420 |
| 11:07.17 | RST38h | not malloced |
| 11:07.18 | zap | aha |
| 11:07.26 | zap | RST38h: kmalloc'd |
| 11:07.31 | RST38h | sram is at a fixed address |
| 11:07.47 | lcuk_work | BUT, if we can start to use the IVA and pvr i would like to use that 5mb as framebuffer and get the IVA pumping it back out so the lcd can see it |
| 11:08.10 | crashanddie | ok, I'm going to try and interrupt a bluez developer conversation, so maybe they'll help me :P |
| 11:08.20 | RST38h | I would really like to use those 5mb as sram. can I ? |
| 11:08.25 | zap | crashanddie: put on your iron helm |
| 11:08.31 | lardman | lcuk_work: That would then imply 2 sets of memcpy operations rather than 1 |
| 11:08.36 | lcuk_work | RST38h, i dunno, i was looking the other night |
| 11:08.49 | crashanddie | zap, that's not exactly to help with bluetooth problems, is it :P |
| 11:08.54 | lcuk_work | its interesting in that its superquick and could be used to pull off some nice tricks |
| 11:09.23 | zap | crashanddie: that will minimize the radio noise, so perhaps it could |
| 11:09.25 | lcuk_work | lardman: what does it matter - the iva isnt used yet and we should be able to use that to transfer: we wouldnt be taking anything away from the system as it stands |
| 11:10.08 | ShadowJK_ | bluetooth is funny. Some people were talking about piconets with 8 computers and what not... Bloody hell, it's fucking hard enough to make more than 2 bluetooth things maintain a connection to eachother, let alone 7 |
| 11:10.10 | zap | hmm, if SRAM is just at a different physical address from DRAM, I don't see why kernel can't use it |
| 11:10.28 | lardman | DRAM? |
| 11:10.30 | lcuk_work | yes, its an extra step, but would be worth doing: process 3d quickly into SRAM RGB buffer, use IVA to translate to YUV and push it into normal memory space, update LCD |
| 11:10.37 | lardman | Where's the DRAM other than in the DSP? |
| 11:10.53 | zap | lardman: DRAM == DDR RAM in my case :) |
| 11:11.20 | lardman | hmm, my mistake, I was thinking DARAM |
| 11:11.28 | lardman | and is this talk of SRAM actually SARAM |
| 11:11.46 | zap | you wear pink DSP glasses |
| 11:11.47 | *** join/#maemo __t (n=t@extern.bootlab.org) |
| 11:12.03 | lcuk_work | lardman, i dont know its name: on the 2420 specs it says 5mb memory onboard for streaming multimedia app |
| 11:12.07 | lcuk_work | or something like that |
| 11:12.22 | lardman | ok, so some random memory :) |
| 11:12.25 | zap | lcuk_work: thats what you were meaning as 5mb SRAM? |
| 11:12.27 | *** join/#maemo dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:12.34 | lcuk_work | 5-Mb internal SRAM boosts streaming media performance |
| 11:12.37 | lcuk_work | yes |
| 11:12.39 | lardman | 5 mega bits that is |
| 11:12.41 | lcuk_work | http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=4671&navigationId=11990&templateId=6123 |
| 11:12.55 | lcuk_work | yes - its enough for a framebuffer whether bits or bytes |
| 11:13.17 | lardman | I was refering about to an earlier comment about it being fitted on the chip |
| 11:13.26 | lardman | s/about/back |
| 11:13.28 | lcuk_work | and as far as i can tell is just another under utilized piece of silicon |
| 11:13.55 | ShadowJK_ | so how do you use it? :-) |
| 11:14.22 | lcuk_work | i dunno yet |
| 11:14.31 | zap | ok so how I see it, even if we can use IVA, it will render to normal RAM, and then you have to tell LCD to pump data out to VRAM |
| 11:14.46 | lcuk_work | yes, with this hardware there is no way round that |
| 11:15.06 | ShadowJK_ | and DRAM -> LCD is bottlenecked at 25fps for a full frame? |
| 11:15.13 | zap | the "Display Controller" block is not used in N8x0, is it? |
| 11:15.20 | lcuk_work | no |
| 11:15.37 | lcuk_work | ShadowJK_, yes, a full YUV frame, important distinction |
| 11:15.41 | lardman | zap: IVA doesn't render, it processes |
| 11:15.42 | ShadowJK_ | aj |
| 11:15.46 | ShadowJK_ | ah* |
| 11:15.53 | zap | lardman: how's that different? |
| 11:15.55 | ShadowJK_ | What's IVA? that powervr thing? |
| 11:15.59 | zap | oh |
| 11:16.06 | zap | indeed I was meaning powervr |
| 11:16.06 | lardman | lcuk_work: look at the vanilla kernel source and see how they use the inbuilt framebuffer |
| 11:16.17 | lcuk_work | IVA is a image processor - it converts between formats ,it scales etc |
| 11:16.19 | crashanddie | I'll be back |
| 11:16.20 | lardman | ShadowJK_: Imaging Video Accelerator |
| 11:16.24 | *** join/#maemo atlas95 (n=michel@unaffilated/atlas95) |
| 11:16.24 | ShadowJK_ | ah |
| 11:16.40 | zap | and it comes that with current hw architecture IVA is mostly useless as well? |
| 11:16.47 | ShadowJK_ | Is IVA what's used for Xvideo? |
| 11:16.51 | zap | yes |
| 11:16.59 | lardman | ShadowJK_: it's a processor + hw coprocessors + some memory buffers to do various image/video processing (whatever you write the code for) |
| 11:17.09 | lardman | ShadowJK_: but it's not used atm |
| 11:17.19 | ShadowJK_ | ah okay, the LCD does YUV->RGB too |
| 11:17.19 | lcuk_work | totally useless - but will be vital i think to getting the 3d RGB rendered frame out of 2420 and into main memory as YUV |
| 11:17.25 | zap | who handles YUV -> RGB then? |
| 11:17.28 | lardman | ShadowJK_: no, the lcd controllercan do scaling and rotation and it's used |
| 11:17.28 | zap | aha |
| 11:17.44 | *** join/#maemo TheNewAndy (n=andy@60-242-120-238.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 11:17.46 | ShadowJK_ | hm |
| 11:17.52 | ShadowJK_ | IVA does YUV->RGB? |
| 11:18.01 | lardman | ShadowJK_: whatever code you write |
| 11:18.05 | lcuk_work | IVA is designed for RGB->YUV |
| 11:18.16 | lardman | hmm |
| 11:18.17 | zap | but no other way around? |
| 11:18.21 | lcuk_work | have a look lardman |
| 11:18.24 | ShadowJK_ | I think it was lcuk who said the LCD controller can take YUV? |
| 11:18.37 | lcuk_work | nice fast rgb<->yuv conversions built in |
| 11:18.39 | lardman | ShadowJK_: yes, it can take a variety of formats |
| 11:18.48 | lardman | lcuk_work: where are you reading this? |
| 11:19.07 | zap | well my logic is that if LCD controller is totally separate from the OMAP, then IVA won't gave too much gain |
| 11:19.18 | ShadowJK_ | Right, so you wouldn't want to use the IVA for YUV->RGB then, because that'd increase the amount of data you'd have to push through the bottleneck to the LCD |
| 11:19.37 | lardman | you'd do RGB->YUV |
| 11:19.38 | zap | but you can use it for RGB -> YUV |
| 11:19.59 | ShadowJK_ | If you don't mind the chroma subsampling I guess :-) |
| 11:20.09 | zap | most users won't |
| 11:20.23 | ShadowJK_ | the pixels are so small anyway.. |
| 11:21.05 | ShadowJK_ | What other things except the powervr stuff is dead weight at the moment because of tight ass specs? :-) |
| 11:21.14 | lardman | the IVA |
| 11:21.30 | lcuk_work | just finding it lard |
| 11:21.35 | lardman | lcuk_work: np |
| 11:21.49 | *** join/#maemo crashanddie (n=crashand@lns-bzn-47f-81-56-209-63.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 11:22.04 | zap | and perhaps the 5Mb SRAM lcuk is talking about? |
| 11:22.14 | lardman | yes, that too |
| 11:22.26 | lardman | but that's probably accessible with some kernel tweaks |
| 11:23.09 | TheNewAndy | is there a #define that I can use to tell if my code is being compiled for maemo or not? (I'm not cool enough to use the autoconf tools)? |
| 11:23.29 | lardman | lcuk_work: The reason I ask is that the IVA appears to have 2 hw accelerators - VLC and iMX, so lariable length coding and SIMD operations |
| 11:23.50 | zap | TheNewAndy: use a configure switch or that, something like --enable-maemo |
| 11:24.07 | lardman | lcuk_work: you could certainly write some code to do RGB->YUV, I'm just not so sure that's a hw component |
| 11:24.35 | lardman | TheNewAndy: create your own, there's nothing pre-existing afaik |
| 11:24.58 | zap | "Flicker-free video and click-free audio during multitasking" |
| 11:25.01 | zap | sighs |
| 11:25.29 | lcuk_work | lardman, not sure whether its hardware but i remember reading there was yuv->rgb conversion as a feature |
| 11:25.37 | zap | audio is another weak point of n8xx |
| 11:25.49 | zap | and I don't see any hw bottleneck here |
| 11:26.04 | lardman | why's that? |
| 11:26.43 | lcuk_work | :D heh liqbase comes up as first result for omap2420 yuv to rgb conversion in google |
| 11:27.08 | X-Fade | lcuk_work: Don't let google's dynamic profiling fool you ;) |
| 11:27.35 | lcuk_work | lol i ts scary sometimes, internettablettalk has quite high rank. |
| 11:27.42 | lcuk_work | slashdot is similar |
| 11:27.52 | X-Fade | lcuk_work: It knows what you search for, so it ranks that accordingly. |
| 11:28.11 | lcuk_work | how come it works at home then |
| 11:28.32 | X-Fade | lcuk_work: Ever use gmail at home too? :) |
| 11:28.34 | lcuk_work | my searches for silicon there still come up with microprocessors |
| 11:29.05 | lcuk_work | x, i knw igoogle tries to keep me logged in but i logout and clear cookies :) i hate that mail and google are tied |
| 11:29.35 | lcuk_work | my google account should never come near the front page of google search itself |
| 11:29.44 | lcuk_work | AND the logout on google main page doesnt work |
| 11:29.51 | lcuk_work | stops ranting |
| 11:30.19 | ShadowJK_ | hm, in my user experience the media player seems to keep mp3 playing long after everything else becomes hung and unresponsive :-) |
| 11:30.20 | *** join/#maemo ralann|mac (n=ralann@c-76-22-113-126.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 11:30.46 | lcuk_work | wtf - does this look familiar |
| 11:30.46 | lcuk_work | http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70101&page=2 |
| 11:30.51 | ShadowJK_ | But gui sounds disappear early and arrive all at one at some later point long after (but not always) |
| 11:32.07 | lardman | argh, copy&paste not working again! |
| 11:34.34 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@189.70.140.74) |
| 11:34.43 | lardman | So does that mean the Nokia phones don't use the hw accel? |
| 11:35.48 | zap | lardman: why audio is a weak point or what? |
| 11:36.16 | korgoth | hm hm , anyone with n800/n810 around? i need a hint on chargers? :) |
| 11:36.28 | ShadowJK_ | hint on chargers? |
| 11:36.36 | korgoth | what charger is it using |
| 11:36.44 | lardman | zap: yes |
| 11:37.03 | ShadowJK_ | mine's a AC-4E |
| 11:37.07 | ShadowJK_ | the small nokia plug |
| 11:37.20 | korgoth | standard small plug - nice! :) |
| 11:38.32 | ShadowJK_ | the new plug, not the one that used to be standard before they made it small ;) |
| 11:38.59 | korgoth | yes, yes i got it - but that seems to be the standard from now on :-) |
| 11:39.19 | ShadowJK_ | ya |
| 11:40.25 | RST38h | the next one you will be able to sew with... |
| 11:41.15 | *** join/#maemo Cptnodegard (n=none@unaffiliated/cptnodegard) |
| 11:42.19 | *** join/#maemo AStorm (n=astralst@unaffiliated/astralstorm) |
| 11:47.40 | *** join/#maemo nemtersis (n=chatzill@85.101.47.236) |
| 11:48.06 | zap | lardman: N8xx has a shitty sound architecture, don't you see compared to Zaurus or PCs? |
| 11:48.13 | zap | no ALSA, laggy sound output |
| 11:48.25 | *** join/#maemo pupnik_ (n=pupnik@dslb-088-068-127-181.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:48.28 | lardman | There is ALSA if you want it |
| 11:48.32 | zap | nope |
| 11:48.43 | zap | alsamixer doesn't work, aplay -L show no devices |
| 11:48.59 | zap | it's some weird partial emulation |
| 11:49.18 | zap | play Breakout2 a little, you'll see how sounds lags out a lot (by about a second) |
| 11:49.24 | lardman | fair enough |
| 11:49.40 | lardman | what does Breakout2 use as its sound format? |
| 11:49.51 | zap | no idea yet, but I bet it does not lag on PCs |
| 11:50.16 | zap | besides, most realtime games preload sounds to sound buffers |
| 11:50.21 | lardman | who cares about PCs, they are completely different |
| 11:50.35 | lardman | if it's mp3 data for example, I could understand the lag |
| 11:50.47 | zap | well, I had no sound problems on zaurus C3100, and it's PXA270/400MHz |
| 11:51.40 | RST38h | esd works ok on n8x0 |
| 11:51.40 | lardman | Is it a compiled game, or flash? |
| 11:51.47 | zap | lardman: native linux binary |
| 11:51.50 | dneary | hi lardman |
| 11:51.50 | RST38h | no lag unless you ask for it |
| 11:51.55 | lardman | hi dneary |
| 11:52.17 | dneary | lardman: Do you think that Programming the DSP is good as it is, in terms of technical content? |
| 11:52.31 | RST38h | I have no idea why we have not got /dev/dsp though |
| 11:52.35 | zap | mpd port for example is awful |
| 11:52.44 | lardman | dneary: talk or the wiki page? |
| 11:52.46 | zap | even via esd |
| 11:52.55 | dneary | The wiki page |
| 11:52.58 | lardman | dneary: the wiki page is ok, I need to tidy it up a bit though |
| 11:53.04 | lardman | or has it been moved? |
| 11:53.15 | RST38h | prolly expects too much from esd |
| 11:53.17 | dneary | No - it's on the new wiki |
| 11:53.24 | dneary | but it's exactly the same content |
| 11:53.43 | lardman | should be ok really |
| 11:53.56 | lardman | I can have a look at it this evening and add/update/etc. |
| 11:54.03 | *** part/#maemo nemtersis (n=chatzill@85.101.47.236) |
| 11:54.07 | *** join/#maemo Italodance (i=Persia@92.61.181.103) |
| 11:54.42 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: It seems the plugin isn't working because bugzilla runs on a really old version of mysql. |
| 11:55.00 | lardman | dneary: It's quite old, I should remove the EAP_* stuff, or move to a wishlist section, and add more stuff about memory, etc. |
| 11:55.16 | lardman | dneary: but the steps to get a working toolchain, etc., are all still the same |
| 11:56.44 | lardman | zap: sounds are wav |
| 11:59.21 | lardman | zap: uses SDL for the audio output |
| 11:59.35 | lardman | using Mix_PlayChannel() |
| 11:59.53 | lardman | I don't know what the SDL backend is, might be worth looking there |
| 12:00.03 | Jaffa | RST38h: thanks again for the mockups, re separate dropdowns for bandwidth & framesize - I'll keep it in mind, but that'd require some big changes to the tablet-encode internals. Happy to have information on the selected preset shown, and maybe even have a GUI for creating a new preset with those two dropdowns (and the ability to set your default preset) |
| 12:02.48 | RST38h | Jaffa: I do not think that having single preset is that important |
| 12:03.34 | RST38h | Jaffa: a user will fell just fine with up to 3 separate dropdowns AS LONG as you provide sensible defaults |
| 12:03.51 | wiza | lardman: I installed everything(except kernel) for a2dp and I get BT_GETCAPABILITIES failed error |
| 12:03.56 | RST38h | and for video encoding you really just need two dropdowns |
| 12:04.07 | lardman | wiza: probably need a reboot |
| 12:04.10 | RST38h | s/fell/feel/ |
| 12:04.35 | lardman | wiza: switch headset off too |
| 12:04.59 | wiza | ok |
| 12:05.12 | RST38h | >3 controls will casue "what is all this shit" reaction though (see ffdshow ui) |
| 12:05.22 | Makegho | is there a system for developing to maemo on windows? |
| 12:05.46 | RST38h | make: no |
| 12:05.47 | Jaffa | RST38h: Understood. And, admittedly, with the fact that bandwidth can go quite high now at 400x240 resolution. Will further ponder |
| 12:05.59 | Makegho | could try something like vmware maybe? |
| 12:06.06 | *** join/#maemo booiiing__ (n=[booiiin@e180028192.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 12:06.22 | RST38h | Jaffa: you can tell mencoder to cap bandwidrh |
| 12:06.42 | Makegho | or use python, that works I think? |
| 12:06.50 | RST38h | 400x240 is not the output frame size - it is just starting dimensions of the preview ui |
| 12:06.55 | wiza | lardman: same error |
| 12:07.18 | lardman | wiza: try a2dp disable, then a2dp enable |
| 12:07.28 | RST38h | and you can resize it with the window later - as long as it keeps proportion it does not matter what size it is |
| 12:07.33 | lardman | wiza: I've had that before, tried lots of things, and eventually it's worked |
| 12:07.51 | wiza | no workee |
| 12:08.00 | zap | lardman: SDL is said to be "optimized" for Nokias |
| 12:08.22 | zap | I believe SDL uses esd backend in our case |
| 12:08.23 | lardman | zap: who says that? I thought that was pretty far from the truth |
| 12:08.37 | RST38h | make: vmware is not native development |
| 12:08.48 | zap | lardman: well, SDL is part of the official firmware, isn't it? |
| 12:08.51 | RST38h | make: but python and perl should work |
| 12:08.51 | lardman | wiza: can you play with a2dp disabled? Through the speakers? |
| 12:08.59 | lardman | zap: no afaik |
| 12:09.28 | wiza | I can play to my headset with a2dp disabled :D |
| 12:09.44 | lardman | hmm |
| 12:09.54 | lardman | sounds like a2dp hasn't grabbed the headset |
| 12:10.04 | lardman | did you do "a2dp firstrun"? |
| 12:10.10 | lardman | runfirst perhaps |
| 12:10.15 | wiza | yep |
| 12:10.33 | lardman | is BT icon blue? |
| 12:10.52 | wiza | yep |
| 12:10.56 | Jaffa | Yay! Just what we need, another mencoder wrapper |
| 12:11.21 | wiza | hmm, I recall something from my last fight with a2dp |
| 12:11.22 | lardman | wiza: try switching headset off, then back on |
| 12:12.00 | RST38h | Jaffa: isnt it what you are using though? |
| 12:12.19 | wiza | did that, still nothing |
| 12:12.38 | zap | lardman: do a dpkg -s libsdl1.2 and look at the maintainer: field |
| 12:12.53 | lardman | zap: I don't have a machine in front of me |
| 12:12.54 | *** join/#maemo luck^ (n=Luciano@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:13.00 | Jaffa | RST38h: yeah, someone's making a fanfare over there new mencoder wrapper script on ITT. Just seems like wasted effort rather than getting involved in one of the (many) we've already got. |
| 12:13.02 | zap | lardman: well it's something@nokia.com |
| 12:13.02 | lardman | wiza: hmm |
| 12:13.17 | lardman | zap: I'll have a look over lunch |
| 12:13.25 | wiza | input/output error(5) |
| 12:13.37 | lardman | wiza: ah, is that a new one> |
| 12:13.46 | zap | lardman: I just want to say that it would be cool to have an ALSA driver for the sound :) |
| 12:13.52 | zap | a native one, not emulated |
| 12:14.04 | wiza | BT_GETCAPABILITIES failed: Input/output error(5) |
| 12:14.07 | lardman | zap: TBH I don't really know what differnce it would make |
| 12:14.31 | wiza | a2dp actually worked with chinook, of course w/o dsp |
| 12:14.42 | wiza | so it was pretty much unusable |
| 12:14.53 | lardman | wiza: yeah, these are not DSP-related problems but rather a2dp related ones |
| 12:14.57 | zap | lardman: it would make a lot of difference |
| 12:15.20 | zap | you will get both OSS and ALSA at once, and forget ALSA-via-esd emulation |
| 12:15.29 | RST38h | Jaffa: I would take this as a sign that you shouldnt be so complacent:) |
| 12:16.16 | lardman | wiza: with mine, as soon as I turn it on I get some static through it as the N810 links using headset profile (and I get a little headset icon up the top), then I start mplayer and after a short delay I get A2DP & headset icon goes gray again |
| 12:16.24 | RST38h | still wonders whether he should fake apple appstore on top of packrat |
| 12:17.59 | zap | "The S1D13745 contains a 1280K byte display buffer and supports 24 bpp display modes", but 800*480*4 is 1.5Mb |
| 12:18.03 | lardman | wiza: am heading home for lunch, will be back online when I get there and will look and see what I can do with my headset to break it (:S) |
| 12:18.52 | zap | ah, 856*480*3 is exactly 1280K |
| 12:19.22 | lardman | zap: it's a strange size so it can do backbuffering, etc. |
| 12:19.28 | lardman | and TV out |
| 12:19.56 | jott | but too less to do real double buffering with a full rgb screen.. :( |
| 12:20.36 | *** join/#maemo ralann|mbp (n=ralann@c-76-22-113-126.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 12:21.04 | wiza | lardman|lunch: ok :D |
| 12:21.46 | *** join/#maemo jurop88 (n=jure@213-140-6-99.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 12:21.51 | lcuk_work | jott, if i remember rightly, the omapfb doesnt do hardware double buffering even for lower resolutions |
| 12:22.54 | lcuk_work | and 640*480 would fit nicely, and is basically unnoticable on this screen |
| 12:23.39 | zap | Boo, found the full spec on S1D13745 |
| 12:23.53 | jott | zap: yeah it's on the epson site |
| 12:23.59 | lcuk_work | (test this in liqbase and see if you can spot where some of the pixel are doubled) |
| 12:25.46 | zap | Pixel doubling is done with the S1D13745?\ |
| 12:25.59 | zap | Hmm, no, it can't be |
| 12:26.14 | zap | must be some OMAP thing |
| 12:26.32 | lcuk_work | its direct on the lcd hardware |
| 12:26.40 | lcuk_work | nothing to do with omap at all |
| 12:26.46 | zap | hmm |
| 12:27.19 | lcuk_work | if you push a block of memory of (lets say) 400*480 you can tell the LCD hardware to scale it to fullscreen |
| 12:27.32 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf-n800 (n=user@212.13.37.17) |
| 12:27.40 | jott | zap: just take a look at the driver source drivers/video/omap/blizzard.c |
| 12:27.46 | zap | you can choose if you want to double horizontally/vertically separately? |
| 12:27.46 | lcuk_work | run liqbase and see for yourself :) the code is around so you can check if it does anything other than "Here show the user this screen" |
| 12:28.10 | jott | zap: you just define an input and output rect |
| 12:28.13 | zap | um, so actually "pixel doubling" can do arbitrary upscale? |
| 12:28.22 | lcuk_work | zap, specific pixel doubling is slightly different to the arbitary tv mode scaling |
| 12:28.36 | lcuk_work | but both go through the same hardware |
| 12:28.49 | zap | unfortunatly I don't have the sources handy |
| 12:29.09 | hrw | morning |
| 12:29.14 | lcuk_work | jott - sidenote: it downscales as well: i can tell it to draw a full 800*480 display in windowed mode |
| 12:29.21 | lcuk_work | mornin hrw |
| 12:30.08 | jott | lcuk_work: sure, that's the point of defining input and output rects ;) |
| 12:30.12 | jott | hello hrw |
| 12:30.32 | lcuk_work | damn! i thought that might be something super-jott might not know |
| 12:30.34 | lcuk_work | foiled again! |
| 12:31.40 | lcuk_work | anyway, im closing this wormhole and returning to my own universe. back after work |
| 12:31.57 | jott | yeah good luck in avoiding customers :P |
| 12:34.26 | *** join/#maemo DaniloCesar (n=DaniloCe@200-138-36-94.ctame705.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 12:34.27 | Jaffa | RST38h: agreed on the complacency; and as for app store-like look & feel, it can't do any harm to take some design what Apple's done and copy it for a similar purpose |
| 12:36.17 | *** join/#maemo lardman (n=simon@78.149.7.220) |
| 12:36.22 | lardman | re |
| 12:36.53 | lardman | wiza: still no joy? |
| 12:37.31 | wiza | lardman: no, I stopped fighting it for a while and started to actually do some work, while looking for an apartment since I just resigned my current job :D |
| 12:37.36 | wiza | +from |
| 12:40.09 | *** join/#maemo lopz (n=gentoo-d@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 12:40.09 | lardman | good luck |
| 12:40.28 | lardman | looks like most of the error conditions should return some text using error() |
| 12:40.35 | *** join/#maemo guardian (n=guardian@mar44-1-87-90-32-28.dsl.club-internet.fr) |
| 12:40.56 | lardman | did it give you a fn name, etc. too? |
| 12:41.16 | lopz | hola |
| 12:42.42 | wiza | lardman: pcm_bluetooth.c:1589:(bluetooth_init) |
| 12:43.46 | *** part/#maemo jurop88 (n=jure@213-140-6-99.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 12:43.46 | lardman | BT_GETCAPABILITIES failed : ? |
| 12:44.25 | lardman | it was this fn iirc which causes the error: err = audioservice_expect(data->server.fd, &rsp_hdr->msg_h, BT_GETCAPABILITIES_RSP); |
| 12:46.02 | *** join/#maemo boolean (n=boolean@modemcable158.5-131-66.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 12:46.03 | boolean | morning |
| 12:46.04 | lardman | do you get something like this before that error?: Bogus message %s received while.... |
| 12:47.51 | wiza | umm, I just play mplayer on xterm and it says that error after selecting audio codec and line of = signs |
| 12:48.05 | *** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@p57BBFBEE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:48.08 | wiza | and it's that BT_GETC.... error |
| 12:48.15 | lardman | I'm not sure how to debug it really |
| 12:48.20 | wiza | that fn and line number is just before i |
| 12:48.23 | wiza | *it |
| 12:48.24 | lardman | it does an IPC call to a server |
| 12:49.00 | lardman | http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/37474 |
| 12:49.24 | lardman | I needed to repair the headset |
| 12:50.18 | wiza | well that is the same error |
| 12:50.21 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:50.29 | wiza | I have repaired it a few times but what's once more... |
| 12:51.24 | lardman | I also deleted it from the BT devices list |
| 12:52.55 | wiza | hmm, now it seems to work, I think |
| 12:53.09 | wiza | some header->sbc output stuff etc |
| 12:53.20 | lardman | cool |
| 12:53.24 | lardman | that's about all you should see |
| 12:53.40 | wiza | computers = randomness |
| 12:53.44 | lardman | on the mplayer side, you'll see nothing if it works, or a -1 falling back to sw encoder if it fails |
| 12:54.02 | wiza | how can I install that kernel stuff? |
| 12:54.03 | lardman | wiza: yeah, error reporting could be better |
| 12:54.10 | lardman | use the flasher to flash the kernel |
| 12:54.16 | lardman | Linux flasher that it |
| 12:54.18 | wiza | now that I'm feeling lucky |
| 12:54.20 | lardman | s/it/is |
| 12:54.31 | wiza | umm, device cant flash itself? |
| 12:54.32 | lardman | pupnik: what do you know about SDL optimisation? |
| 12:54.42 | lardman | wiza: yes it can, I don't know how though |
| 12:55.11 | pupnik | lardman: umm.. actually optimizing sdl? or using it more frugally? |
| 12:55.18 | wiza | well, I need to hook it up to my htpc or server when I get back home, my work machine is mac :D |
| 12:55.27 | lardman | pupnik: well its state of optimisation |
| 12:55.38 | wiza | (or as I usually say: other Unix :)) |
| 12:55.42 | lardman | wiza: there's a MAC flasher actually |
| 12:55.48 | lardman | wiza: I should have said !Windows |
| 12:56.09 | wiza | lardman: only that graphical 770 works since this is intel |
| 12:56.24 | lardman | wiza: ok |
| 12:57.13 | pupnik | not much. jott looked at it a bit. it might benefit from a yuv mode. and it might be possible to hack-in page-flipping at lower resolutions. |
| 12:57.43 | *** join/#maemo SDuensin (n=Scott@10.sub-75-207-112.myvzw.com) |
| 12:58.01 | lardman | wiza: when you get back to Linux do something like "flasher -k zImage -f -R" |
| 12:58.36 | lardman | lcuk_work: fancy a little project? |
| 13:00.02 | lardman | Should be easy enough to put in ssvb's memcpy & colorspace convert fn from the mplayer svn |
| 13:01.10 | lardman | assuming SDL doesn't need to interact with the Xserver? |
| 13:01.12 | wiza | lardman: ok |
| 13:03.27 | jott | sdl on the nits uses the x11 backend atm. |
| 13:03.45 | lardman | Ah, I'm just reading this thread http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/34516 |
| 13:04.48 | pupnik | thing is, mplayer already has its data in yuv format. with sdl games, you'd be adding a RGB-YUV conversion |
| 13:05.11 | lardman | yes, but ssvb's memcpy & convert code is nearly as fast as a simple memcpy |
| 13:05.18 | pupnik | ah nice |
| 13:05.20 | *** join/#maemo sven-tek (i=linux@p508EFCDA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:05.29 | lardman | the data need to be copied to the framebuffer, so do a free conversion at the same time |
| 13:05.51 | lardman | will need to write directly though, looks like there are some issues |
| 13:05.51 | pupnik | arbitrary resolution setting would be nice too - from lcuk's work |
| 13:06.08 | lardman | hence my trying to persuade him to do it :) |
| 13:06.37 | jott | i still think a raw omapfb backend would be nice |
| 13:06.59 | lardman | agreed, what is the limitation there? |
| 13:07.09 | jott | i.e. manually controlling the update of rects etc |
| 13:07.27 | jott | time and manpower to create it? :) |
| 13:07.43 | lardman | shouldn't take too long I wouldn't have thought? |
| 13:07.56 | *** join/#maemo mattimo (n=opensyne@gb-r9-01.pixelpark.net) |
| 13:08.02 | mattimo | hi maemo |
| 13:08.17 | jott | yeah a draft could probably done in reasonable time |
| 13:08.49 | mattimo | I am trying to build the networkmanager on the maemo n800 but I can't get the gnome-keyring dependencie resolved |
| 13:09.01 | mattimo | has anybody ever done that? |
| 13:09.02 | lardman | not really my thing, I don't do games, but I'm surprised someone hasn't had a go already |
| 13:09.06 | jott | otoh it might be nice to improve the directfb omapfb driver |
| 13:09.27 | jott | and use sdl directfb backend |
| 13:09.36 | lardman | jott: Ah, I see |
| 13:09.48 | lardman | jott: I've only looked at it in passing, what needs to be improved? |
| 13:10.13 | jott | suupport for scaling etc. |
| 13:10.25 | *** part/#maemo fr01 (n=jex_o_je@212.30.2.18) |
| 13:10.38 | jott | i just took a short look at it tbh |
| 13:10.38 | *** join/#maemo m-c (n=mmm@ubuntu/member/desertc) |
| 13:10.43 | lardman | hmm, I thought that was in there |
| 13:10.54 | jott | in directfb? |
| 13:10.56 | jott | mh |
| 13:11.03 | *** join/#maemo rsalveti (n=salveti@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:12.15 | lardman | ah, it's an abstraction layer of the kernel fb driver |
| 13:12.56 | *** join/#maemo zhur (n=zhur@cold.ispras.ru) |
| 13:13.27 | lardman | looks interesting, has anyone started? |
| 13:13.48 | jott | i don't think so. i just did some initial investigations |
| 13:13.55 | jott | not sure about the implications on either side... |
| 13:14.21 | jott | so if directfb would limit us in capabilities that can be provided to sdl... |
| 13:14.38 | jott | other than that i think directfb would be a more generic approach and might help other projects.. |
| 13:14.41 | lardman | well it would be a step in the right direction at least |
| 13:15.39 | *** join/#maemo chenca (n=chenca@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:16.05 | *** join/#maemo fr01 (n=jex_o_je@212.30.2.18) |
| 13:18.41 | *** join/#maemo DaniloCesar (n=DaniloCe@200-138-36-94.ctame705.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 13:24.26 | *** join/#maemo cmarcelo (n=cmarcelo@200.184.118.132) |
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| 13:36.49 | *** join/#maemo hfwilke (n=hwilke_@gateway.GRAYINSCO.COM) |
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| 13:51.01 | *** part/#maemo mattimo (n=opensyne@gb-r9-01.pixelpark.net) |
| 13:51.05 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@212.13.37.17) |
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| 13:53.48 | *** join/#maemo atlas95 (n=michel@unaffilated/atlas95) |
| 13:57.55 | dneary | So - anyone here actually use a Bluetooth network device with the tablet? |
| 13:58.36 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@212.13.37.17) |
| 14:00.16 | lardman | they exist? |
| 14:00.38 | summatusmentis | define bluetooth network device |
| 14:01.13 | *** join/#maemo matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 14:01.17 | summatusmentis | i suppose technically my phone is a bluetooth modem... |
| 14:01.49 | *** join/#maemo borism (n=boris@195-50-207-250-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) |
| 14:03.15 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (n=jgombos@66-81-75-116.bayarea.dialup.o1.com) |
| 14:04.59 | hrw | my desktop has PAN, my phone is BT Modem - does it count as BT network devices? |
| 14:05.26 | summatusmentis | your desktop has PAN? cool :) |
| 14:06.07 | hrw | summatusmentis: PAN is very easy to setup |
| 14:06.35 | summatusmentis | I wonder if my Macbook supports it |
| 14:06.51 | mgedmin | distrusts claims from people claiming X is very easy |
| 14:07.15 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-44-69.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net) |
| 14:07.56 | *** join/#maemo wms (n=wms___@198.146.5.46) |
| 14:11.53 | rm_you | damn, another ping scrolled off >_> |
| 14:18.46 | hrw | 15 05:24 < DHR> rm_you: I'm thinking of reflashing my n800. You wrote earlier "you should flash now" "and then put your root on SD". Where is root-on-SD described? |
| 14:18.50 | hrw | rm_you: that one? |
| 14:19.07 | hrw | now it is "15 16:19" here |
| 14:20.00 | rm_you | ah <_< |
| 14:20.14 | rm_you | i need to figure out how to make xchat have a larger scrollback buffer |
| 14:20.16 | crashanddie | I have a flat ! :D |
| 14:20.26 | rm_you | crashanddie: I have an apartment! :D |
| 14:20.41 | crashanddie | I don't care |
| 14:20.44 | crashanddie | I have my flat :D |
| 14:20.47 | rm_you | lol |
| 14:21.06 | rm_you | <3 en_BR |
| 14:21.23 | crashanddie | en_BR ? |
| 14:21.29 | rm_you | en_UK |
| 14:21.31 | crashanddie | english brasil ? |
| 14:21.34 | rm_you | dunno which they use :P |
| 14:21.36 | crashanddie | oh, en_GB :P |
| 14:21.40 | rm_you | en_GB :P |
| 14:21.42 | crashanddie | :d |
| 14:21.46 | XTLi | Indeed |
| 14:22.15 | *** part/#maemo TheNewAndy (n=andy@60-242-120-238.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 14:22.30 | crashanddie | I just was on the phone with the lady who's looking for a tenant (it's a flatshare, appears to be 2 gals and another bloke in the house) |
| 14:22.50 | XTLi | Are they cute? |
| 14:23.20 | crashanddie | and at some point she goes "well, we have another australian and..." "australian ?" "yeah... You're not australian ?" "do I sound australian ?" "well yeah... Where are you from then ?" "erhm, I live in France atm" "oh, this is awkward" |
| 14:23.50 | crashanddie | I sound Australian... I don't know if I should feel insulted or take it as a compliment |
| 14:23.55 | trickie | well at least you will have good flatmates :) |
| 14:24.07 | crashanddie | trickie, I take it you're australian ? |
| 14:24.11 | trickie | yesh |
| 14:24.18 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12 (n=faheem@host-84-9-54-79.dslgb.com) |
| 14:24.49 | trickie | we do sound strange i guess... i been living in holland long enough that now when i hear australians i cringe a little bit |
| 14:24.59 | trickie | its a rough accent |
| 14:25.10 | trickie | but usually friendly people :) |
| 14:25.43 | qwerty12 | goes to join community kernels project :) |
| 14:25.54 | crashanddie | you live in holland ? |
| 14:26.00 | trickie | yep |
| 14:26.03 | crashanddie | waar? :P |
| 14:26.19 | X-Fade | Hier ;) |
| 14:26.33 | trickie | amsterdam |
| 14:26.33 | crashanddie | hehe |
| 14:26.47 | crashanddie | better not talk dutch, or the spanish will come and invade the channel |
| 14:26.48 | trickie | where are you moving to? |
| 14:26.51 | rm_you | lardman: what are you using as the base for your kernel? |
| 14:26.59 | crashanddie | trickie, london |
| 14:27.10 | lardman | rm_you: standard pulled from the diablo repo |
| 14:27.16 | trickie | qwerty12: come be an admin with me |
| 14:27.23 | trickie | crashanddie: where are you from? |
| 14:27.30 | rm_you | lardman: ok... can you send the patch you use for SBC to qwerty12 ? |
| 14:27.34 | crashanddie | trickie, all over europe, really :P |
| 14:27.45 | qwerty12 | rm_you: I sent it him :P |
| 14:27.51 | rm_you | ah ok |
| 14:27.59 | lardman | qwerty12: yep, though your patch was malformed ;) |
| 14:28.00 | rm_you | so his kernel has all the other stuff too? |
| 14:28.03 | qwerty12 | trickie: Cool, thanks, I'm requesting to join atm :) |
| 14:28.11 | rm_you | k |
| 14:28.11 | lardman | rm_you: no, just that dvfs patch |
| 14:28.13 | qwerty12 | lardman: hehe, I didn't test it :P |
| 14:28.17 | crashanddie | trickie, born in belgium, lived about everywhere there, a bit in delft too, then france, and now the UK :) |
| 14:28.34 | trickie | crashanddie: cool, strange that they mistook you for an aussie... hard accent to *sound like* |
| 14:28.51 | trickie | unless you are drunk i guess |
| 14:28.54 | trickie | he he |
| 14:29.20 | rm_you | lardman/qwery12: yeah... so, the kernel is the only weirdness I worry about with a bunch of independent devs... we need a central "this is the patched kernel" project or something, so that we dont have a bunch of different versions floating around with different things missing |
| 14:29.32 | rm_you | *qwerty12 |
| 14:29.34 | trickie | crashanddie: well good luck in big bad london! |
| 14:30.11 | trickie | rm_you: there is a community kernel project at garage now |
| 14:30.19 | trickie | just for coordinating that |
| 14:30.24 | crashanddie | trickie, well, when I speak with my "american accent", people tend to think I'm a bastard american-french dude, when I speak with my british accent, people think I'm either from upper-class london, first time anyone thought I was from Australia :P |
| 14:30.26 | rm_you | *is it*? |
| 14:30.38 | rm_you | All i know is that I have had several people send me kernels |
| 14:30.45 | rm_you | and i have no idea what they were built with |
| 14:31.06 | trickie | rm_you: nothing there yet, but we want to have a coordinated project, and release kernels through extras-devel |
| 14:31.10 | lardman | rm_you: takre a look at the maemo-devel list from today |
| 14:31.16 | trickie | yeah or that :) |
| 14:31.18 | rm_you | lardman: k |
| 14:31.24 | lardman | trickie: ;) |
| 14:31.39 | crashanddie | anyway, back to work |
| 14:31.40 | rm_you | trickie: yes, that really is a good idea (and probably necessary) |
| 14:31.43 | lardman | trickie: I'll email you the patch in question |
| 14:31.46 | darkterror46 | could someone please tell wich package have stdio.h? |
| 14:31.55 | trickie | lardman: yep for sure |
| 14:32.01 | lardman | darkterror46: scratchbox? |
| 14:32.04 | trickie | ill add it to my collectionm |
| 14:32.11 | darkterror46 | :) |
| 14:32.11 | lardman | darkterror46: as in are you using scratchbox? |
| 14:32.13 | rm_you | lardman: k, dunno if I still get it... about a month ago emails from -devel seem to have stopped arriving |
| 14:32.17 | darkterror46 | no |
| 14:32.18 | qwerty12 | darkterror46: libc6-dev: |
| 14:32.20 | darkterror46 | in n8110 |
| 14:32.26 | lardman | as above |
| 14:32.32 | darkterror46 | ok thank you :) |
| 14:36.08 | rm_you | I forget, did rotation support require a kernel flash? I think it did |
| 14:36.16 | qwerty12 | It does |
| 14:36.31 | jott | hm maintaining kernel changes looks like another git use case... :) |
| 14:36.32 | rm_you | so, if i flash lardman's new SBC kernel, will i retain that? |
| 14:37.34 | qwerty12 | rm_you: I v.much doubt it. If lardman can send me the patch, I'll compile a sbc kernel with rotation in about 10 mins. |
| 14:38.43 | lardman | rm_you: no you'll lose it |
| 14:38.55 | lardman | qwerty12: try applying that patch you sent me |
| 14:39.08 | lardman | just looks like it was missing the @ @ surrounding the line numbers |
| 14:39.13 | rm_you | ok, see, that's what I was trying to ask earlier :P |
| 14:39.18 | qwerty12 | Will I have to apply by hand? (no objections, I'm used to it :)) |
| 14:39.30 | lardman | probably not |
| 14:39.37 | lardman | it's a pretty quick patch anyway |
| 14:39.41 | lardman | short |
| 14:39.51 | rm_you | qwerty12: diff -urN |
| 14:39.56 | rm_you | is that what you use? |
| 14:40.00 | qwerty12 | yes |
| 14:40.03 | rm_you | hrm |
| 14:40.08 | lardman | diff -Naur I would use |
| 14:40.20 | rm_you | only diff is a |
| 14:40.22 | rm_you | what is a |
| 14:40.26 | lardman | no idea :) |
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| 14:40.43 | rm_you | ah treat all files as text |
| 14:40.44 | qwerty12 | For more fun, jott used diff -rup on the rotation patch :P |
| 14:40.46 | rm_you | meh |
| 14:40.55 | rm_you | lol |
| 14:41.33 | jott | i thing for c patches p is helpful |
| 14:41.36 | jott | (-p is --show-c-function) |
| 14:41.40 | qwerty12 | Fanoush used Naur on his last kernel with rotation. |
| 14:41.48 | qwerty12 | Cool, thanks jott |
| 14:42.29 | jott | u makes it "unified" so it uses the +/- notation instead of < / > |
| 14:44.35 | *** join/#maemo Stecchino (n=quassel@75.150.71.53) |
| 14:46.18 | crashanddie | how do I get gpsd running, without using mapper or Map ? |
| 14:48.17 | lardman | crashanddie: in your own code? |
| 14:48.31 | crashanddie | no, just console |
| 14:48.58 | crashanddie | GA asked me to benchmark gpsd power usage, I'm going to let it run and see how long before the battery runs flat |
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| 14:49.11 | lardman | just run it, though you may find it wants some switches, so perhaps best to let Map start it then see what it is called with using ps |
| 14:49.43 | X-Fade | dbus? |
| 14:50.21 | jott | gpsd power usage? or gps power usage or both? |
| 14:50.28 | lardman | X-Fade: I think he's after quick and dirty |
| 14:50.29 | jott | gps on n810 drains the battery alot.. |
| 14:50.46 | lardman | would be good to see how much |
| 14:51.21 | jott | indeed |
| 14:51.47 | crashanddie | jott, both in fact |
| 14:51.57 | crashanddie | hmm, it would seem Map does something else than just calling gpsd |
| 14:52.12 | lardman | how so? |
| 14:52.12 | crashanddie | cuz using the same command line, I get "gpsd: GPS device /dev/pgp nonexistent or can't be read" |
| 14:52.53 | qwerty12 | Why not just take a quick look in maemo mapper's source? |
| 14:52.54 | lardman | oh i see, hence my suggestion that you see what switches it's been called with |
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| 14:54.36 | jott | http://andrew.daviel.org/N810-FAQ.html#gpsd |
| 14:54.37 | jott | mh |
| 14:54.51 | darkterror46 | looks like libc6-dev must be updated. |
| 14:56.28 | darkterror46 | i get unmet dependencies. \n libc6-dev: Depends libc6 (=2.5.0-1osso7) but 2.5.0-1osso9 is to be installed |
| 14:56.29 | *** part/#maemo XTLi (n=XTLi@dsl-olugw6-fe63dc00-166.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:56.29 | jott | and why is this faq not in the wiki? :P |
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| 15:03.21 | darkterror46 | where can i find libc6-dev for 2.5.0-1osso9 ? |
| 15:07.34 | X-Fade | darkterror46: You are setting yourself up for disaster. What are you trying to do? |
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| 15:09.47 | qwerty12 | midgard + slow maemo.org = pissed off qwerty12 |
| 15:10.05 | crashanddie | Ok, I just used the location thingy in settings to get a fix |
| 15:10.24 | crashanddie | that keeps gpsd running IIRC, even though it has a location |
| 15:11.01 | crashanddie | and a small script which touches a file every minute, so I know when I started, and when the device shut itself down |
| 15:11.03 | *** join/#maemo lopz (n=gentoo-d@unaffiliated/lopz) |
| 15:12.14 | lardman | crashanddie: you could telnet to gpsd |
| 15:12.24 | crashanddie | no, doesn't work |
| 15:12.32 | crashanddie | it kills you if you're not saying anything for x seconds |
| 15:12.41 | lardman | crashanddie: you need a switch to enable it |
| 15:12.53 | lardman | hmm, it should just spit out NMEA data continually |
| 15:12.59 | crashanddie | lardman, I wrote a gpsd proxy a while ago |
| 15:13.07 | crashanddie | and I had to send some request every 30 seconds |
| 15:13.13 | lardman | fair enough |
| 15:13.14 | crashanddie | or gpsd would kill the connection |
| 15:13.34 | *** join/#maemo eocanha2 (n=eocanha@cm227063.red91-117.mundo-r.com) |
| 15:14.10 | crashanddie | plus, any program that would actually use the gpsd data while its running will use as much (if not more) CPU cycles as the window that displays the gps settings now |
| 15:14.15 | darkterror46 | X-Fade: i'm just trying to have gcc working so i can make some c code compilation while on the move |
| 15:14.20 | crashanddie | so I think it's close enough |
| 15:14.42 | crashanddie | darkterror46, ask lcuk, he compiles everything on his n810 |
| 15:14.53 | darkterror46 | :) |
| 15:15.06 | qwerty12 | darkterror46: are you using diablo? |
| 15:15.18 | darkterror46 | well i already have gcc installed i need now the standard c library |
| 15:15.21 | darkterror46 | yes |
| 15:15.26 | darkterror46 | i'm using diablo |
| 15:15.32 | qwerty12 | are you using the chinook sdk repo? |
| 15:15.43 | darkterror46 | yes |
| 15:15.55 | qwerty12 | nope, ain't gonna work. give me a sec. |
| 15:16.13 | qwerty12 | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3405 - comment #6 on that page |
| 15:16.31 | qwerty12 | Remove the chinook sdk repo before adding the diablo one. |
| 15:16.50 | darkterror46 | ooopss? :) |
| 15:17.25 | darkterror46 | ok where can i find the list of diablo repos? |
| 15:18.29 | *** join/#maemo kabtoffe (n=kbergstr@hoasnet-ff03dd00-85.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 15:19.13 | qwerty12 | debates whether to update https://garage.maemo.org/projects/busybox-test/ for diablo and pimp it up some more. |
| 15:20.32 | trickie | qwerty12: did someone accept your request at the community kernel project yet? |
| 15:21.09 | qwerty12 | I'm listed as an developer so I guess I was accepted :) |
| 15:21.25 | trickie | cool |
| 15:22.01 | trickie | i got a mail... and saw you listed as a developer... but having never used garage before i didn't know if i had to hit save/submit etc or if you already got accepted |
| 15:22.22 | vmlinuz | quick question, I've read that maemo 2.2 setups have been using scratchbox 1.0.8 whereas the maemo 3.1 scratchbox install uses 1.0.7, shouldn't be using 1.0.8 ? |
| 15:24.20 | jott | should also join the kernel hacker crew :> |
| 15:24.40 | rm_you | There was supposedly an issue with possible data corruption with the kernel mmc speed patch, but are there actually any reported cases? >_> |
| 15:25.14 | qwerty12 | jott: you should ;) :) |
| 15:25.30 | rm_you | I need to learn how to do kernel tasks >_> |
| 15:27.02 | jott | just submitted the application |
| 15:28.34 | crashanddie | vmlinuz, 3.1 is pretty much outdated |
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| 15:34.41 | vmlinuz | crashanddie, which one is the more updated? My device is a n770 |
| 15:35.09 | crashanddie | oh |
| 15:36.02 | crashanddie | I don't know a lot about 770s, honestly |
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| 15:43.05 | qwerty12 | rm_you: http://www.mediafire.com/?dwcy1b9xctu - Diablo kernel. DVFS/"SBC" patch (added in by hand again :P), rotation & 48MHz mmc. |
| 15:43.17 | rm_you | lol |
| 15:43.26 | rm_you | you really need to get a proper patch for that :P |
| 15:43.29 | vmlinuz | anyone? Which is the latest maemo release that has been tested successfully on n770? |
| 15:43.37 | *** join/#maemo cjohnson_ (n=cjohnson@71.5.32.3.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 15:44.19 | johnx | vmlinuz, there is an OS2008HE or hacker edition |
| 15:44.20 | johnx | it has the same library versions as chinook on the n8x0 |
| 15:44.35 | rm_you | I have heard that it is somewhat slow though... |
| 15:44.41 | rm_you | but compatibility is probably worth it |
| 15:45.12 | jott | yeah it seems the most important thing with it, is to enable swap. |
| 15:45.43 | *** join/#maemo Atarii (n=Atarii@unaffiliated/atarii) |
| 15:46.32 | jott | it would be nice to have some basic infrastructure for kernel images.. |
| 15:47.04 | jott | like user assisted postinst scripts that invoke fiasco-flasher |
| 15:47.37 | crashanddie | vmlinuz, btw, it's "770", and "n800", or "n810", not "n770" |
| 15:47.40 | crashanddie | :P |
| 15:47.52 | jott | might be sufficent to use maemo-confirm-text with some big disclaimer... |
| 15:48.44 | vmlinuz | johnx, I actually reimaged my 770 yesterday, but couldn't connect to wifi nor datacalls with my cell |
| 15:48.51 | vmlinuz | with 2008HE that is |
| 15:48.59 | vmlinuz | I reverted to 2007HE |
| 15:48.59 | johnx | ah |
| 15:49.18 | timeless | ok, i'm finally filling out the rest of mxr.maemo.org/garage |
| 15:49.18 | johnx | I don't have a 770, so all I know is what I heard |
| 15:49.33 | timeless | it turns out my quota was bumped a while ago, and i missed the m[a]emo :) |
| 15:49.47 | *** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@p57BBFBEE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:50.43 | vmlinuz | rm_you, 2008HE it was slightly slower than 2007HE, I was going to 'take it', but it killed me when I wasn't able to go wireless |
| 15:50.46 | jott | like warning mails that your inbox is full which don't reach you just because of that :) |
| 15:51.00 | *** join/#maemo pH5 (n=ph5@e178251151.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:51.19 | rm_you | vmlinuz: it should not interfere with WIFI, i know a lot of people are using it successfully <_< |
| 15:51.26 | rm_you | there may be something else odd there |
| 15:52.06 | vmlinuz | rm_you, I'll start searching about it, but seems odd since I'm only around 7 feet away from the wireless antenna |
| 15:52.41 | vmlinuz | the signal strenght shows medium to low, but when I try to connect I can't |
| 15:53.23 | vmlinuz | I noticed also that the config dialog now includes the option to disable the power saving, I tried all of them and still same result |
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| 16:14.52 | edistar | can you attach an external gps antenna to the n810? |
| 16:17.05 | johnx | you might be able to if you hacked it open and soldered to it (guessing...) |
| 16:18.16 | jott | edistar: yes should be possible, but really requires good hardware/solder skills... |
| 16:18.21 | edistar | jott: ok, thanks |
| 16:18.25 | edistar | so no socket |
| 16:18.25 | edistar | ;) |
| 16:18.27 | *** part/#maemo edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 16:20.07 | *** join/#maemo lardman (n=simon@78.150.113.213) |
| 16:29.45 | RST38h | Folks, could somebody please confirm bug #3359 for openismus guys? They do not appear to believe it exists. |
| 16:29.58 | johnx | will check |
| 16:30.02 | *** join/#maemo darkterror46 (n=terror46@69.248.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt) |
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| 16:30.32 | *** join/#maemo lcuk (i=lcuk@cpc1-oldh7-0-0-cust232.manc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 16:30.39 | lardman | hey lcuk |
| 16:31.02 | *** join/#maemo alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust710.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 16:31.09 | johnx | RST38h, can't confirm (no bt keyboard), but there is lots of lag with a usb keyboard as well |
| 16:31.56 | rm_you | johnx: I need to set up a blank debian/ packaging directory... got a simple way to do that? |
| 16:32.02 | darkterror46 | hi lcuk |
| 16:32.02 | rm_you | all the tutorials are BS ridiculous |
| 16:32.10 | RST38h | johnx: please make a comment on this bug - seed holy fear into their hearts |
| 16:32.45 | RST38h | rm/you: if you have got bt kbd, comment on bug 3359 |
| 16:32.50 | johnx | RST38h, I think lag might not be related to dropped characters though |
| 16:33.01 | RST38h | or they will close it and it wont get resolved |
| 16:33.25 | johnx | the lag seems like it's connected to the word prediction or somesuch, but I'll try again in a sec |
| 16:33.33 | RST38h | johnx: try touch typing real fast - bt kbd will lose characters in this case |
| 16:33.54 | RST38h | prolly buffer overflow in the kbd itself |
| 16:34.08 | johnx | RST38h, right, and my usb keyboard doesn't seem to, but it does lag painfully |
| 16:34.47 | RST38h | weird |
| 16:35.15 | RST38h | otoh, usb probabbly has less retransmit issues than bt |
| 16:35.16 | johnx | I wonder if Nokia does some kind of "clever" bt powersaving |
| 16:35.38 | *** join/#maemo madhav (n=Administ@122.167.106.119) |
| 16:36.55 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@host-84-9-54-79.dslgb.com) |
| 16:37.03 | RST38h | god knows what it is... I can almost believe it is caused by gtk |
| 16:37.33 | johnx | oooor, Nokia's modifications to gtk, maybe? |
| 16:38.05 | RST38h | johnx: maybe, but it almost looks like gtk event loop is lagging |
| 16:38.16 | rm_you | johnx: what was the user for the diablo repo? |
| 16:38.30 | rm_you | i remember the password :P |
| 16:38.34 | RST38h | satan? |
| 16:38.47 | crashanddie | yes , |
| 16:38.47 | crashanddie | ? |
| 16:39.17 | johnx | rm_you, http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/apt-0.7.6maemo2/http-tablet-identification.patch |
| 16:39.36 | qwerty12 | laughs at being the first one to find that file :p |
| 16:41.05 | qwerty12 | yerga: does your hex-a-hop extras package have sound working? |
| 16:41.15 | yerga | not yet |
| 16:41.22 | yerga | I will try add it |
| 16:41.24 | qwerty12 | ah, ok :) |
| 16:44.16 | rm_you | the base64 encoding is just for sending via wbe |
| 16:44.21 | rm_you | you can put it in as plaintext |
| 16:44.32 | rm_you | *sending via web transfer protocols |
| 16:45.44 | *** join/#maemo unixSnob (n=jgombos@66-81-75-51.bayarea.dialup.o1.com) |
| 16:46.10 | johnx | RST38h, does it appear more often in a certain app? (the lag / dropout) |
| 16:46.48 | lardman | bbl |
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| 16:48.28 | johnx | RST38h, for example, I see more lag in notes (which enables the typing prediction) than quicknote (which doesn't) |
| 16:48.32 | RST38h | johnx: seems to appear more often when app has more widgets |
| 16:49.02 | johnx | RST38h, I'm assuming microb is the worst? |
| 16:49.18 | RST38h | johnx: xchat config windows are the worst |
| 16:49.41 | RST38h | prediction can be turned off from settings panel though... |
| 16:49.48 | johnx | tests |
| 16:49.54 | johnx | no dropped chars, lots of lag |
| 16:50.06 | johnx | sometimes it's a whole word behind when I'm typing as fast as I can |
| 16:50.11 | RST38h | even with prediction off? |
| 16:50.18 | johnx | prediction is on |
| 16:50.24 | RST38h | yea, sounds familiar |
| 16:50.31 | RST38h | try turning it off |
| 16:53.18 | johnx | ok, at most 2 letters behind at full typing speed |
| 16:53.26 | johnx | no dropped chars |
| 16:53.42 | johnx | I think this is a whole lot of issues that appear to be connected but aren't necessarily |
| 16:53.57 | johnx | and a BT keyboard should have a pretty big buffer I would think. |
| 16:54.14 | RST38h | yep |
| 16:54.23 | RST38h | so it is prediction? |
| 16:54.42 | RST38h | it tries predicting even although you cant make use of it? |
| 16:54.45 | Stskeeps | johnx: how did you make usb host work again? |
| 16:54.47 | mgedmin | lcuk: have you booked a hotel yet? |
| 16:55.13 | johnx | Stskeeps, I loaded g_file_storage with the same params as it had in /usr/sbin/osso-enable-usb-storage.sh (sp?) |
| 16:55.22 | *** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@sto93-5-88-174-207-65.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:55.34 | Stskeeps | ta - i will just pass that on to Capn_Fish then |
| 16:55.37 | johnx | RST38h, it predicts and I type through it anyways, but it's wasting time predicting |
| 16:56.05 | johnx | RST38h, I might try bumping to "performance" settings to see if that helps. |
| 16:56.39 | RST38h | where are the performance settings? |
| 16:57.06 | johnx | RST38h, I mean the cpufreq scaling_governor |
| 16:57.11 | RST38h | ah |
| 16:57.15 | johnx | forcing the CPU to 400MHz instead of letting it scale |
| 16:57.21 | RST38h | has not played with that |
| 16:57.41 | johnx | Seems to reduce lag a bit...but it's hard to be consistent on this small keyboard |
| 16:57.58 | johnx | I can't tell if I might just be typing slower sometimes |
| 16:58.28 | RST38h | if possible, make comment about prediction slowing things in that bug |
| 16:58.51 | RST38h | prediction should not apply to ext keyboards anyway |
| 16:59.58 | johnx | shrugs. it was probably just easier to do it for all this way and let users turn it off |
| 17:00.15 | johnx | and if it wasn't an option someone would scream and complain that they wanted it for some reason |
| 17:02.22 | RST38h | true |
| 17:02.52 | RST38h | I dont think nokia expected anyone to use tablets with ext keyboard |
| 17:03.08 | johnx | but they provided the option for a long time... |
| 17:03.28 | crashanddie | johnx, on gmail (in microb), I know that I usually have such a lag that even with the builtin keyboard (n810), I'm usually a paragraph or two ahead of what's on screen |
| 17:03.47 | *** part/#maemo hellwolf-n800 (n=user@212.13.37.17) |
| 17:03.53 | johnx | crashanddie, good. I'll test that too |
| 17:04.00 | johnx | setting performance makes a big difference |
| 17:04.05 | crashanddie | yeah, it does |
| 17:04.09 | johnx | I went back to ondemand and noticed lots more lag |
| 17:04.13 | crashanddie | I'm almost always in performance now |
| 17:04.21 | johnx | me too :/ |
| 17:05.14 | crashanddie | hmm |
| 17:05.24 | crashanddie | the gps doesn't seem to drain that much from the battery, actually |
| 17:05.44 | crashanddie | it's been running for 2 hours straight, and the battery manager still tells me 6 hours of uptime |
| 17:05.56 | johnx | well, it's been known to lie... |
| 17:06.05 | crashanddie | yeah, that's why I'm running this benchmark :P |
| 17:06.30 | *** join/#maemo leandroal (n=leandroa@150.165.63.86) |
| 17:06.50 | crashanddie | I'll do 2 other tests after this one |
| 17:06.58 | crashanddie | so that we can have a good estimation |
| 17:07.13 | RST38h | crash: have you got an ext keyboard? |
| 17:07.27 | crashanddie | not atm |
| 17:07.36 | crashanddie | but I can get to one, yeah, why ? |
| 17:08.01 | RST38h | crash: comment on bug 3359 |
| 17:08.22 | crashanddie | link ? |
| 17:08.23 | RST38h | crash: because nokia devs appear to think there is no laf |
| 17:08.28 | RST38h | lag |
| 17:09.03 | RST38h | crash: I am on a phone. It is bugs.maemo.org and search for bug 3359 |
| 17:09.11 | *** join/#maemo Maximander (n=dltaylor@69-12-164-142.sfo.archedrock.com) |
| 17:09.23 | Jaffa | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3359 |
| 17:09.34 | Maximander | is there any way to prevent the auto-capitalization on an input field? |
| 17:09.43 | johnx | Maximander, turn it off? |
| 17:09.57 | johnx | it's in input settings under language |
| 17:10.12 | Maximander | I mean, like, in an application that contains said input field |
| 17:10.26 | johnx | just for that app but not the whole system? |
| 17:10.28 | rm_you | how do you do regular expressions for multiple strings? |
| 17:10.34 | rm_you | errr |
| 17:10.48 | crashanddie | johnx & RST38h: today I'll get down to the store, and ask to test a few keyboards, I'll note the references of each keyboard down, and the results |
| 17:10.49 | rm_you | like... |
| 17:10.56 | crashanddie | s/today/tomorrow |
| 17:10.58 | crashanddie | s/today/tomorrow/ |
| 17:11.02 | crashanddie | damnit |
| 17:11.05 | RST38h | crash: !! |
| 17:11.07 | johnx | ahaha :P |
| 17:11.10 | RST38h | thanks! |
| 17:11.11 | qwerty12 | For the middle button in the up,down, left, right butttons on N800, which is the correct one: SDLK_ENTER or SDLK_RETURN? |
| 17:11.20 | johnx | crashanddie, that would be great crashanddie :) |
| 17:11.22 | rm_you | say I want to find out if a file contains the words "today" OR "tomorrow" |
| 17:11.27 | hrw | qwerty12: run xev and check? |
| 17:11.30 | Maximander | johnx: how do I turn off auto-capitalization for a GtkEntry field? |
| 17:11.33 | RST38h | return afaik |
| 17:11.37 | rm_you | do i have to use grep TWICE, as grep "today", grep "tomorrow"? |
| 17:11.45 | hrw | rm_you: rgrep "today|tomorrow" file |
| 17:11.46 | qwerty12 | hrw: it returns return, just not sure |
| 17:11.50 | rm_you | hrm |
| 17:11.54 | qwerty12 | RST38h: great, thanks |
| 17:12.07 | RST38h | nokia screwed up when it made qwerty enter NkpReturn |
| 17:12.09 | hrw | s/rgrep/egrep |
| 17:12.25 | hrw | RST38h: and when right shift returns LShift |
| 17:12.28 | johnx | Maximander, aaah, so you're writing the app. Hmm, I would check the source for modest maybe. I think it has a couple fields in the setup wizard with the auto-caps off |
| 17:12.42 | RST38h | hrw: that sucks but a bit less |
| 17:12.59 | RST38h | and using F-keys for hw buttons sucks too |
| 17:13.10 | *** join/#maemo renato_ (n=renato@200.184.118.132) |
| 17:13.15 | crashanddie | johnx, actually, I have this awesome fake press tag, which makes the store very nice to me when I say I'm writing a review :P |
| 17:13.18 | hrw | RST38h: they should use F30+ range |
| 17:13.28 | RST38h | what prevented them from defining oem button codes? |
| 17:13.38 | hrw | RST38h: no idea |
| 17:13.42 | RST38h | they do it on symbian all the time |
| 17:13.57 | hrw | RST38h: but I like F4-F8 set which they use as it makes them easier to use in qemu |
| 17:14.10 | crashanddie | anyway, back later, cheers |
| 17:14.34 | RST38h | hrw: yea, only they are all over the device:) |
| 17:15.39 | *** join/#maemo mvz_ (i=mvz@torch.blackened.com) |
| 17:16.32 | iDS | MPlayer v1.0rc1-maemo.29.n8x0 is available now :D |
| 17:16.54 | iDS | someone is still test it! |
| 17:17.29 | rm_you | easy way to make grep not find itself in "ps | grep blah"? |
| 17:17.32 | Italodance | ? |
| 17:17.44 | rm_you | i suppose i could do an extra "| grep -v grep" |
| 17:17.59 | Maximander | hildon_gtk_entry_set_input_mode(pw, HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_FULL); |
| 17:18.11 | Maximander | can anyone explain that? |
| 17:18.23 | *** join/#maemo eichi (n=eichi@ip-80-226-0-1.vodafone-net.de) |
| 17:18.30 | lcdd | rm_you: use "grep foo$" instead of "grep foo" if you can |
| 17:18.48 | rm_you | oh? |
| 17:19.02 | *** join/#maemo AStorm (n=astralst@unaffiliated/astralstorm) |
| 17:19.13 | lcdd | rm_you: $ matches end of line, not the $ sign itself which shows up in ps |
| 17:19.30 | rm_you | ah right |
| 17:19.44 | rm_you | not working for some reason tho even though it IS at the end of the line >_> which is odd |
| 17:20.14 | Makegho | does n810 have enough cpu power to do simple per pixel graphics in 800x480 mode with SDL, updating every pixel once a frame with a clever fps rate? |
| 17:20.36 | mgedmin | no |
| 17:20.36 | forge | Should do |
| 17:20.50 | mgedmin | well, depends on your desired fps rate |
| 17:20.59 | mgedmin | it can't do full-screen video at 30fps, iirc |
| 17:21.04 | rm_you | i thought the problem was not CPU but LCD bus bandwidth |
| 17:21.09 | rm_you | <_< |
| 17:21.16 | mgedmin | ah, considering only the cpu? |
| 17:21.24 | mgedmin | no idea, why don't you do some benchmarks? ;-) |
| 17:21.32 | Makegho | no, considering everything :) |
| 17:21.45 | Makegho | fps should be over 25 |
| 17:21.54 | rm_you | not going to work then, most probably |
| 17:22.00 | Makegho | too bad |
| 17:22.06 | rm_you | because of the bandwidth of the graphics bus |
| 17:22.16 | rm_you | you can get away with 400x240 with pixel doubling easily |
| 17:22.23 | rm_you | and it still looks very nice |
| 17:22.31 | rm_you | because the screen has such high DPI |
| 17:22.35 | mgedmin | watch liqbase videos for what's possible |
| 17:22.37 | Makegho | could take a look at that maybe |
| 17:22.39 | johnx | however, some people like lcuk have done some really clever stuff to get fullscreen display at high framerates |
| 17:22.39 | lcdd | rm_you: the busybox ps adds space to the end on each line. weird |
| 17:22.47 | *** join/#maemo ddenis (n=shad@62.70.27.100) |
| 17:22.51 | johnx | but not RGB data, he uses YUV instead, IIRC |
| 17:23.08 | rm_you | lcdd: lol annoying. whatev, not really an option in my script anyway, am searching for things not necessarily at the end of the linee |
| 17:23.10 | rm_you | thanks tho |
| 17:23.10 | Makegho | hmm |
| 17:23.22 | johnx | lcuk is the author of liqbase |
| 17:26.05 | Makegho | oh my, I forgot I don't have a devenv :) maybe I need to set up one then. |
| 17:29.37 | lcuk | johnx, yes i do |
| 17:29.47 | lcuk | likes doin really clever stuff |
| 17:30.16 | lcuk | mgedmin, not yet |
| 17:30.22 | Makegho | what kind of stuff have you done? :) |
| 17:30.49 | lcuk | i said why yesterday, but now flight arrangments are cleared i will do later on |
| 17:31.09 | *** join/#maemo henrique (n=henrique@unaffiliated/henrique) |
| 17:31.14 | lcuk | Makegho, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUPp_mE7rwI |
| 17:32.26 | lcuk | lardman, i wasnt even here when i signed back in :S |
| 17:32.56 | rm_you | how do I capture the return value of a command in a bash script? |
| 17:33.01 | lcuk | lardman|gone, ill speak to your about sdl later |
| 17:33.05 | mgedmin | $?, iirc |
| 17:33.11 | rm_you | yeah... |
| 17:33.22 | lcuk | has a lot of catching up to do and not much time |
| 17:33.26 | Makegho | is there az way in n810 to open a youtube link so that it runs fast enough? |
| 17:33.27 | rm_you | but in a bash script, will that be reliable if I do a command, then next like check $? |
| 17:33.27 | henrique | lcuk, cool! |
| 17:33.38 | rm_you | might $? change if other things are happening in the background? |
| 17:33.45 | johnx | Makegho, can mytube accept links? |
| 17:33.50 | *** join/#maemo sjgadsby (n=sjgadsby@166.66.56.73) |
| 17:33.52 | lcuk | Makegho, yes there is some youtube viewer which downloads and opens in mplayer or something |
| 17:34.02 | qwerty12 | mytube |
| 17:34.03 | Makegho | canola2 has search but it can't open links I think |
| 17:34.16 | Makegho | I'll check it out |
| 17:34.36 | *** join/#maemo pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:34.42 | lcuk | ok, what should i tell my missus: im leaving her tonight. me and kylie are gonna elope |
| 17:35.45 | lcuk | henrique, i think so as well :) |
| 17:35.50 | *** join/#maemo lmoura (n=lmoura@200.184.118.132) |
| 17:35.52 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@host-84-9-54-79.dslgb.com) |
| 17:35.56 | *** join/#maemo bilboed (n=bilboed@pdpc/supporter/active/bilboed) |
| 17:37.18 | pupnik | so long and thanks for all the f...'? |
| 17:37.32 | pupnik | with apologies to Douglas Adams |
| 17:37.48 | qwerty12_N800 | haha |
| 17:37.56 | *** join/#maemo atlas95 (n=michel@unaffilated/atlas95) |
| 17:37.56 | Stskeeps | implying anything is fishy or fish-smelling is bound to get you slapped, with women |
| 17:38.00 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 17:38.21 | qwerty12_N800 | talking from experience? :p |
| 17:38.46 | lcuk | who slaps you with women, most people use a hand |
| 17:39.22 | lcuk | http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/entertainment/music/live_reviews/s/1057937_kylie__men_arena |
| 17:41.04 | qwerty12_N800 | hasn't read manchester news for a *long* time. last i read was the story of that manchester police man putting himself in the tumble dryer |
| 17:41.18 | lcuk | that was a fireman wasnt it? |
| 17:41.20 | qwerty12_N800 | s/policeman/fireman |
| 17:41.22 | qwerty12_N800 | yeah |
| 17:41.31 | lcuk | lol still facepalmish |
| 17:41.40 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf-n800 (n=user@a83-132-29-118.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 17:42.41 | *** join/#maemo Knowledge (n=Knowledg@76.29.12.163) |
| 17:46.41 | *** join/#maemo lbt (n=david@78-32-229-233.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 17:47.07 | GeneralAntilles | ohgod |
| 17:47.25 | GeneralAntilles | It's a clone of the threads I get on itT all the time on -users. |
| 17:47.44 | johnx | GeneralAntilles, what is it this time? |
| 17:48.13 | rm_you | How can I make a deb mark its own install as FAILED in postinst? |
| 17:48.31 | rm_you | so that dpkg will note it as failed install and rollback |
| 17:49.50 | GeneralAntilles | Mark needs to get off the list already. |
| 17:50.18 | GeneralAntilles | He spends an awful lot of time being an idiot on there for somebody who claims he doesn't have time to file bugs. |
| 17:50.31 | sp3000 | grumble |
| 17:50.31 | jott | rm_you: if you return from postinst with an errorcode it will fail.. |
| 17:50.36 | GeneralAntilles | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-users/2008-July/021895.html |
| 17:50.40 | rm_you | jott: ah right :P |
| 17:50.45 | rm_you | durr |
| 17:50.52 | sp3000 | why must modest's "localized" Re: and quote headings be so embarrassing |
| 17:51.05 | sp3000 | at least it's ok for reading :\ |
| 17:51.40 | sp3000 | maybe I should put apologies in a signature |
| 17:52.56 | sp3000 | for broken threading from no in-reply-to combined with creative subject mangling on reply :( |
| 17:53.02 | johnx | GeneralAntilles, it turns out that a lot of the time RTFM isn't the response you want but it is the advice you need |
| 17:53.05 | lcuk | we need a GeneralAntilles_bot |
| 17:53.30 | *** join/#maemo qwerty12_N800 (n=faheem@host-84-9-54-79.dslgb.com) |
| 17:53.57 | lcuk | OMG what am i to do |
| 17:53.58 | lcuk | Pardon me for not having the pleasure of knowing your mindset before making you this offer and it is utterly confidential and genuine by virtue of its nature. |
| 17:53.58 | lcuk | I write to solicit your assistance in a funds transfer deal involving US$ 3.5M.This fund has been stashed out of the excess profit made last year by my branch office the International Commercial Bank which I am the manager. |
| 17:54.12 | qwerty12_N800 | pay him! |
| 17:54.35 | sp3000 | let him have the pleasure of knowing your mindset in relation to the offer? |
| 17:54.48 | GeneralAntilles | ^ == spam hell |
| 17:55.03 | johnx | echo your-post.txt | grep "I googled" || echo RTFM |
| 17:55.10 | lcuk | :D "go feck yourself with a broomstick?" |
| 17:55.13 | johnx | s/echo/cat |
| 17:55.41 | lcuk | GeneralAntilles, its not spam, its unsolicited commercial offerings for my benefit |
| 17:56.03 | GeneralAntilles | It will be spam if you reply to it. |
| 17:56.44 | pupnik | lcuk do you know of this 'Kthool-Hoo'? |
| 17:57.15 | aquatix | pupnik: :) |
| 17:57.46 | lcuk | pupnik, should i? |
| 17:57.47 | pupnik | btw that 'David Ehi' spambaiting is only findable on web.archive.org afaict |
| 17:58.25 | pupnik | lcuk - perhaps the funniest spam baiting i've ever read (a hobby of some practised to waste the spammer/scammer's time) |
| 17:58.28 | aquatix | lcuk: it's written differnelty ;) |
| 17:58.28 | lcuk | ahhh another baiter |
| 17:58.32 | aquatix | ctulhu |
| 17:58.50 | aquatix | spaghetti monster++ |
| 17:59.05 | pupnik | it's a long exchange but worth it... maybe i should post it somewhere again |
| 17:59.20 | *** join/#maemo zap (n=zap@28.169.249.ozerki.net) |
| 17:59.23 | aquatix | pupnik: ah, that story archived on the internet archive? |
| 17:59.29 | aquatix | pupnik: very funny indeed |
| 18:00.29 | sjgadsby | Argh. Must reboot again. Rotten computer. |
| 18:01.46 | *** join/#maemo Blastur (n=kebab@kr-lun-168-149-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 18:02.12 | jott | there is also http:/www.419eater.com for scambaiting ;p |
| 18:02.14 | Blastur | hey! anyone made any progress in the weird powerdrainage of diablo? |
| 18:03.02 | Makegho | johnx: cool, mytube did the job pretty well :) |
| 18:03.16 | johnx | Makegho, good to hear. I should reinstall it :) |
| 18:03.31 | Blastur | hey johnx! |
| 18:03.36 | Blastur | did you make those power scripts yet? |
| 18:03.42 | johnx | power scripts? |
| 18:03.45 | Blastur | i'd like to run em and see what happens on my n810 :) |
| 18:03.51 | RST38h | pupnik: got a bt kbd? |
| 18:03.57 | johnx | aaah, got distracted |
| 18:04.00 | Blastur | yeah, last time i was in here, you talked about making some scripts that logged the power usage at any given time |
| 18:04.02 | pupnik | yes but it only wants to pair with 770 RST38h |
| 18:04.17 | pupnik | can I test smth for you? |
| 18:04.24 | johnx | Blastur, I got completely distracted with other stuff. I'll try and remember this time |
| 18:04.44 | RST38h | pupnik: just wanted to ask you to comment on bug 3359 |
| 18:04.56 | Blastur | hehe, its no problem really.. maybe i should give it a try myself |
| 18:05.04 | Blastur | im just not so familiar with the Maemo SDK |
| 18:05.05 | *** join/#maemo alp_Lover (n=alp_Love@smtp.digital-online.net) |
| 18:05.26 | alp_Lover | hi good morning |
| 18:05.30 | Blastur | hey man |
| 18:06.11 | alp_Lover | Is here any room for Access linux platform(ALP) |
| 18:06.13 | *** join/#maemo TimRiker (n=timr@70-1-215-217.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 18:06.19 | alp_Lover | any body help please |
| 18:06.26 | johnx | Blastur, no need for the SDK. I was just gonna write an sh script to tie battery-status, top and maybe sysstat together so they all logged to the same file |
| 18:06.42 | *** join/#maemo fnordianslip (n=fnoridan@client-82-20-46-119.manc.adsl.virgin.net) |
| 18:07.14 | alp_Lover | ALP programming discussion room!! |
| 18:07.46 | johnx | alp_Lover, I don't know of one. Is there even a public release of ALP? |
| 18:08.07 | Blastur | i dont even know what ALP is :) |
| 18:08.10 | RST38h | alp: APL programming? |
| 18:08.30 | alp_Lover | Embeded linux |
| 18:08.56 | Blastur | i think maybe he refers to this: http://alp.access-company.com/ |
| 18:08.59 | qwerty12_N800 | Access linux platform(ALP) |
| 18:09.12 | *** join/#maemo GNUton (n=antonio@kde/developer/aloisio) |
| 18:09.12 | alp_Lover | http://www.accessdevnet.com/index.php/Community/ALP-Programming/544-ReHow-to-locate-file-From-filesystem-by-AlpBundl.html#544 |
| 18:09.21 | alp_Lover | here can get information |
| 18:09.21 | Blastur | and i think maybe maemo isn't really based on ALP, is it? |
| 18:09.36 | GNUton | Hi there |
| 18:09.41 | Blastur | hey alp_Lover, have you looked in Qtopia or Openmoko platform? |
| 18:09.49 | Blastur | maybe as an alternative i mean |
| 18:09.56 | Blastur | i hear they are very active in development right now |
| 18:09.58 | alp_Lover | yes |
| 18:09.59 | RST38h | hello, gnuton. got an ext keynoard? |
| 18:10.24 | *** join/#maemo sjgadsby (n=sjgadsby@166.66.56.73) |
| 18:10.31 | alp_Lover | previously i worked in maemo |
| 18:10.53 | Blastur | oh, okay.. what made you abandon ship? |
| 18:11.02 | alp_Lover | for that i m here to get some help |
| 18:11.42 | GNUton | RST38h: keyboard? :P no :) |
| 18:11.45 | alp_Lover | no no .. that was my simple university project |
| 18:12.38 | RST38h | gnuton: too bad :) |
| 18:13.01 | GNUton | RST38h: :) |
| 18:13.35 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-44-69.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net) |
| 18:14.14 | johnx | alp_Lover, does ALP run natively on any real devices? or just inside an emulator? |
| 18:14.17 | GNUton | RST38h: how are you? I´m just waked up... :) |
| 18:14.20 | GeneralAntilles | facepalms @ https://wiki.maemo.org/Category:Hardware_%26_Peripherals |
| 18:14.21 | Makegho | what's the dpi of n810 screen? |
| 18:14.32 | alp_Lover | inside an emulator |
| 18:14.33 | johnx | Makegho, ~220, IIRC |
| 18:14.35 | X-Fade | 228? |
| 18:14.39 | GeneralAntilles | 225 |
| 18:14.44 | Makegho | ok, thanks :) |
| 18:15.31 | aquatix | GeneralAntilles: wow, extensive page! ;) |
| 18:16.08 | GeneralAntilles | I should probably stop that before it picks up too much inertia |
| 18:16.15 | GeneralAntilles | I'm just too lazy to go and add all those pages to that category. |
| 18:17.33 | *** topic/#maemo by mgedmin -> http://mxr.maemo.org | Diablo Released! | http://maemo.org | Maemo Summit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 | Create the new maemo.org logo: https://wiki.maemo.org/maemo.org_logo_contest | Help fix the Wiki Page of the day for July 6th: https://wiki.maemo.org/Partitioning_a_flash_card | logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ |
| 18:19.00 | alp_Lover | when i locate a file to show i m getting "gtk warning : too many folders to open" |
| 18:19.07 | *** join/#maemo denny (i=denny@freenode/staff/denny) |
| 18:19.35 | alp_Lover | how can i remove this warning . anybody help pls |
| 18:20.58 | *** join/#maemo lele (n=lele@rivendell.windmill.it) |
| 18:21.18 | X-Fade | alp_Lover: What are you trying to open? |
| 18:21.52 | X-Fade | alp_Lover: And can it be that you point at some place where there are in fact a lot of folders? |
| 18:22.01 | alp_Lover | an image file fro file system |
| 18:22.19 | alp_Lover | lite /user/..../icon.jpeg |
| 18:22.22 | alp_Lover | like |
| 18:22.30 | RST38h | gnuton: somewhat alive, thanks |
| 18:22.53 | alp_Lover | yes |
| 18:23.00 | X-Fade | alp_Lover: Is that path ending in a symlink perhaps? |
| 18:23.05 | alp_Lover | X-fade:yes |
| 18:23.19 | jott | GNUton: hey i saw you imported the qgtkstyle into the svn.. |
| 18:23.48 | GNUton | jott: Yes.. and now you can update the qgtkstyle source! :) |
| 18:23.52 | alp_Lover | what is symlink |
| 18:24.03 | GeneralAntilles | Aha, Quim's got the perfect plan for a barrier-to-entry for Bugzilla tracking for Garage projects. |
| 18:24.04 | GeneralAntilles | Extras! |
| 18:24.06 | alp_Lover | x-fade |
| 18:24.28 | RST38h | has got a few releses pending, if binary uploads to extras work of course |
| 18:24.46 | johnx | alp_Lover, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_link |
| 18:24.52 | jott | GNUton: we really should consider using git :/ |
| 18:24.58 | GNUton | jott: I´m going to build and put in the repository a snapshot of hildonized Qt every weekends.. |
| 18:25.11 | X-Fade | Question: do we see any benefit to have the qt4 experimental stuff in extras-devel? :) |
| 18:25.15 | alp_Lover | johnx: thanks |
| 18:26.00 | RST38h | xfade: is there any reason not to? |
| 18:26.20 | GNUton | jott: I used git (in local) the last summer, however using git means change server... and chhange a lot of things... :( |
| 18:26.26 | X-Fade | RST38h: That was a U-bend question aimed at GNUton ;) |
| 18:26.54 | RST38h | ah |
| 18:27.39 | *** join/#maemo megabyte405 (n=ryan@user-12l2bbd.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 18:28.09 | GNUton | X-Fade: Probably yes, but at moment the code and the package is very "unstable". |
| 18:28.15 | jott | GNUton: yes i realize this, on the other hand we are currently forking upstream projects.. |
| 18:28.34 | jott | and svn is really bad for managing forks |
| 18:28.35 | alp_Lover | x-fade: ya its symbolic link |
| 18:28.42 | X-Fade | GNUton: I'm only worried about introducing updated dependencies you might use.. |
| 18:29.10 | X-Fade | GNUton: Which would then spread into the autobuilder. |
| 18:29.22 | fnordianslip | Hi all. Just built a custom kernel, but wondered if I should have tried to rebuild the stock kernel first and checked it somehow (MD5?) before getting adventurous. I guess the risk in flashing a broken kernel is low, right? |
| 18:29.29 | X-Fade | GNUton: But on the other hand, it would help people porting QT4 apps already! |
| 18:29.50 | johnx | fnordianslip, if you're just flashing the kernel there's basically no risk |
| 18:30.07 | jott | X-Fade: does the autobuilder use qemu? if yes, which version? |
| 18:30.08 | fnordianslip | ok. cool - I'll jump in the deep end then. |
| 18:30.49 | X-Fade | jott: Plain sdk versions. |
| 18:31.31 | jott | so 0.8.2-sb2 or cvs-m? |
| 18:31.32 | fnordianslip | ah, what will flashing the kernel do to my boot menu? I have diablo on the internal SD too. |
| 18:31.33 | melmoth | Hola X-Fade . |
| 18:31.42 | GNUton | X-Fade: yeah, moving the code in extra-build not is a bad idea... |
| 18:32.12 | melmoth | X-Fade: remember the sword autobuild issue ? I created a bug a week ago. It is still unassigned. |
| 18:32.12 | jott | i tried building an optimized qt4 and the 0.8.2 failed for me with sig11 :/ |
| 18:32.13 | penguinbait | <fnordianslip> nothing |
| 18:32.22 | fnordianslip | thats good then. cheers. |
| 18:32.28 | X-Fade | jott: Although there might be a fixed one to fix a 'sem_post: |
| 18:32.28 | X-Fade | Function not implemented' error. |
| 18:32.32 | melmoth | Any idea what to expect as far as having this issue handled ? |
| 18:33.03 | X-Fade | melmoth: All you have is the community and me at the moment :) |
| 18:33.09 | GNUton | X-Fade: I removed the updated dependencies (such as libread5 ...), the only update dependecie is "findutils" packages. |
| 18:33.18 | X-Fade | melmoth: As both the experts are on vacation.. |
| 18:33.20 | jott | X-Fade: sbox has a cvs-m version, which seems to work better for me |
| 18:33.32 | melmoth | X-Fade: do you know when they are back ? |
| 18:33.45 | GNUton | tired.. |
| 18:33.46 | jott | (and you can't use upstream qemu as sbox needs some patches) |
| 18:33.57 | X-Fade | jott: I haven't setup the actual autobuilder, so I don't know exactly. |
| 18:34.04 | jott | ok |
| 18:34.11 | *** join/#maemo korgoth_ (n=pcinvali@90.154.215.0) |
| 18:34.16 | jott | we |
| 18:34.21 | jott | we'll just curious |
| 18:34.25 | X-Fade | melmoth: 2 weeks, I think. |
| 18:34.36 | jott | still have to do some benchmarks and see if it really matters.. |
| 18:34.39 | melmoth | ok. |
| 18:34.54 | X-Fade | melmoth: The weird thing is that it doesn't happen to anybody else. |
| 18:35.50 | X-Fade | melmoth: So I am thinking that it is something with your packaging/interaction with the autobuilder. |
| 18:36.01 | X-Fade | melmoth: Did you try lintian on your package? |
| 18:36.15 | melmoth | no, i did not. good idea |
| 18:36.57 | melmoth | even if it s in my packaging (i do not know debian that much), i woudl expect the autobuilder to give the same result on both arch. |
| 18:37.09 | melmoth | in the local sdk, both result are the same |
| 18:37.18 | *** join/#maemo richieeee72 (n=richard@host86-135-130-81.range86-135.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:37.23 | melmoth | but lintian thingy is a good idea |
| 18:37.37 | *** join/#maemo JamieBennett (n=JamieBen@138-96-dsl-swisscomeurospot.infopact.nl) |
| 18:37.50 | JamieBennett | hey all |
| 18:38.32 | X-Fade | melmoth: Yeah, it can be that something triggers a bug in the autobuilder. But who knows :) |
| 18:39.18 | *** join/#maemo Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman) |
| 18:42.05 | *** join/#maemo aloisiojr (n=aloisio@189.81.156.234) |
| 18:43.18 | jott | GNUton: haven't checked the source yet, but is the qgtkstyle a direct import from the tt svn or did you apply some patches? |
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| 18:46.11 | *** join/#maemo shackan (n=frob@host104-142-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:48.06 | rm_you | what does dpkg run after removing a package? like, after installing it runs the postinst... is it postrm? |
| 18:48.37 | rm_you | is still really bad at debian packaging |
| 18:48.42 | jott | yes postrm |
| 18:49.27 | mgedmin | there's also preinst and prerm |
| 18:49.43 | rm_you | yeah |
| 18:50.06 | rm_you | oh, so how do I set that if you install this package X, dpkg will need to remove package Y? |
| 18:50.30 | rm_you | I don't want "conflicts" because that will just keep it from being installed... i want dpkg to just go ahead and start the removing |
| 18:50.57 | jott | there is also "Replaces" |
| 18:51.17 | mgedmin | http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html describes them all |
| 18:51.28 | rm_you | thx |
| 18:51.31 | jott | rm_you: http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html |
| 18:52.14 | jott | ^^ and there you find the "control" file fields.. |
| 18:52.22 | melmoth | X-Fade: well, there are some warnings http://pastebin.com/m225fac16 |
| 18:53.20 | melmoth | does the one occuring in line 35 ,3è and 38 ring a bell ? |
| 18:53.57 | melmoth | most probably because i did not bother puting stuff in the debian way location |
| 18:54.11 | fnordianslip | hmm. my custom kernel borked and i guess i need to reflash the stock one. will the flasher tool (flasher-2.0.macosx) extract the kernel from the diablo .bin file (perhaps by magic), or do i have to build the stock one myself? |
| 18:54.16 | *** join/#maemo sbaturzio (n=sbaturzi@host244-136-static.36-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:54.36 | jott | fnordianslip: you can extract the kernel from the fiasco image |
| 18:54.45 | sbaturzio | Aloha! |
| 18:54.49 | jott | or flash it alone |
| 18:55.03 | jott | ~fiasco |
| 18:55.04 | infobot | L4-compatible real-time microkernel capable of running Linux in usermode. URL: http://os.inf.tu-dresden.de/fiasco/ |
| 18:55.10 | jott | mhh no |
| 18:55.15 | jott | what ever ;) |
| 18:55.21 | fnordianslip | confused |
| 18:55.23 | jott | pokes infobot in the eye |
| 18:55.26 | jott | sorry |
| 18:55.51 | jott | i hoped infobot would point to a nice site ;) |
| 18:56.32 | fnordianslip | i only want to flash the stick kernel back. might as well build it from source though, to check out the build process. |
| 18:56.46 | *** join/#maemo tbf (n=mathias@86.56.69.25) |
| 18:56.46 | X-Fade | melmoth: Yeah, maybe fixing those will help. But it doesn't look too promising? |
| 18:56.49 | fnordianslip | er, stock, no stick, but perhaps still sick |
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| 18:59.53 | GNUton | jott: The QGTKStyle present in the Qt4 SVN is the same revision of the QGTKStyle package. I didn´t applied any patches. |
| 18:59.56 | jott | fnordianslip: just use the flasher and use --flash-only or extract the fiasco image and use -k .. just read the options.. |
| 18:59.58 | *** join/#maemo jpetersen (n=petersen@xdsl-81-173-152-76.netcologne.de) |
| 19:00.02 | jott | GNUton: ok |
| 19:00.54 | fnordianslip | jott: ok. thanks. may as well build it from source anyhow. doesn't take too long and I'll have more faith in the process afterwards. |
| 19:01.06 | jott | fnordianslip: sure go ahead ;) |
| 19:01.39 | jott | GNUton: unfortunately jensbw hasn't replied yet to my mail... |
| 19:02.02 | fnordianslip | jott: its the custom config part thats the drag |
| 19:02.40 | melmoth | X-Fade: i doubt any of those error have anything to do with the issue (i may be wrong though). |
| 19:02.48 | jott | fnordianslip: yeah well if you are unsure try to manually build the "vanilla" nokia kernel.. |
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| 19:03.04 | fnordianslip | built, just about to flash it. |
| 19:03.24 | melmoth | the thing is, i m not that excited by the idea of having to make a debian ok package just to realise it s something else. |
| 19:03.55 | melmoth | Would cost me a week end. Giving up and just creating a third party repo would cost me an hour or so.. tempting :) |
| 19:04.09 | *** join/#maemo mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 19:04.19 | melmoth | plus the maemo policy actually is much more cool about file location than debian |
| 19:04.28 | GNUton | jott: :( |
| 19:05.09 | GeneralAntilles | melmoth, prepare to be flamed if you create another repository. ;) |
| 19:05.17 | GNUton | jott: what was the problem? |
| 19:05.22 | rm_you | why is the .postrm being run TWICE |
| 19:05.24 | rm_you | >_> |
| 19:05.32 | melmoth | I know that GeneralAntilles. |
| 19:05.45 | GNUton | jott: adding the "maemo_changes" in QGTKSTYLE? |
| 19:06.14 | melmoth | we'll see if the autobuild expert can help me when they are back. But if its as a voodoo issue for them as it is for me.then third party repo it ll be. |
| 19:06.46 | jott | GNUton: no that is one thing, i just wonder on how to proceed with my outstanding patches etc. |
| 19:07.12 | jott | GNUton: as the code currently is in a closed trolltech svn.. |
| 19:07.31 | jott | and i might do some bigger changes at some places.. |
| 19:09.20 | jott | GNUton: comboboxes seem to work nice btw, atleast under hildon. not tested on the desktop yet ;) |
| 19:09.42 | GNUton | jott: great news. :) |
| 19:10.22 | GNUton | jott: do you knowif the style handle also the trigger of the submenues? |
| 19:10.24 | jott | there are not many major widgets left |
| 19:10.48 | jott | mh no styles basically paint and might return properties |
| 19:11.21 | jott | (i.e. delays) |
| 19:11.34 | GNUton | For example the motif style popup the the submenues if clicked and not higlighted. |
| 19:12.07 | jott | this might be an property.. |
| 19:12.34 | GNUton | jott: Yes I thnk, but I was unable to find this property O_o |
| 19:13.12 | jott | http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/qstyle.html#StyleHint-enum |
| 19:13.15 | jott | might look here |
| 19:13.33 | GNUton | ok. |
| 19:13.38 | *** join/#maemo Ryback_ (n=ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 19:13.39 | jott | there are things like "QStyle::SH_Menu_SpaceActivatesItem" |
| 19:13.57 | *** join/#maemo konttori_ (n=konttori@a88-113-140-60.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:14.22 | GNUton | mmm |
| 19:15.11 | *** join/#maemo lcuk2 (i=lcuk@cpc1-oldh7-0-0-cust232.manc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:17.48 | rm_you | ok, so I figured out a way to install the -unlocked package that is correct for the distro |
| 19:17.52 | rm_you | err |
| 19:17.53 | rm_you | for the hardware |
| 19:18.10 | qwerty12_N800 | w00t |
| 19:18.10 | jott | GNUton: still not really sure what you are really after .. otherwise poke in #qt ;) |
| 19:18.16 | rm_you | but... it is a little bit of a hack |
| 19:18.23 | rm_you | qwerty12_N800: read your PM for your main box |
| 19:18.43 | qwerty12_N800 | rm_you, wiil do, ta |
| 19:19.23 | rm_you | here is the only problem: you have to install it first by itself, THEN install other packages |
| 19:19.57 | jott | heh yeah well that's an obvious solution ;p |
| 19:20.00 | rm_you | not as nice as i would like (ie, apt-get install osso-software-version-unlocked some-system-package) |
| 19:20.03 | GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, hrm, too old MySLQ? Any plans to upgrade? |
| 19:20.04 | jott | unlock-me-rx44 :P |
| 19:20.07 | rm_you | jott: no |
| 19:20.12 | rm_you | it's generic |
| 19:20.17 | jott | ah |
| 19:20.22 | rm_you | here is a demo |
| 19:20.22 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Ofcourse :) |
| 19:20.24 | GNUton | jott: what does "poke" mean? :P |
| 19:20.31 | jott | ask |
| 19:20.39 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: We have already asked the ISP, but it will take some time. |
| 19:20.39 | GNUton | is it slang? |
| 19:21.03 | GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, damn the ISP. . . . :P |
| 19:21.05 | jott | GNUton: yes i suppose so :) |
| 19:21.25 | GNUton | jott: ok it´s not a german word so :P |
| 19:21.40 | GNUton | :) |
| 19:21.52 | johnx | literally it means to poke someone with your finger |
| 19:22.23 | johnx | synomyms: jab, stab |
| 19:23.13 | johnx | seems to have become slang for "get someone's attention as if you jabbed your finger into their ribs." :) |
| 19:24.22 | GNUton | :) |
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| 19:27.10 | khertan_ | Hi ! |
| 19:27.26 | johnx | hi |
| 19:27.28 | qwerty12_N800 | Ello khertan |
| 19:28.01 | khertan_ | Hello johnx and qwerty12_N800 |
| 19:28.07 | rm_you | jott / qwerty12_N800: http://cs.trinity.edu/~acm/debs/osso-software-version-unlocked_0.2-1_armel.deb |
| 19:28.18 | rm_you | test and tell me if you think it will be sufficient |
| 19:28.25 | khertan_ | i ve finnaly successfully get dpkg-buildpackage on my n810 |
| 19:28.28 | rm_you | i still am not entirely happy with the way it works |
| 19:28.30 | rm_you | but it DOES work |
| 19:28.39 | GeneralAntilles | Hrm, specify that as a dependency for the rotation-support package and it'll work? |
| 19:28.45 | rm_you | no. |
| 19:28.47 | rm_you | that's the problem |
| 19:28.52 | qwerty12_N800 | i would like to try but i'm already using -unlocked |
| 19:28.53 | rm_you | you can't install it at the same time |
| 19:29.02 | qwerty12_N800 | khertan_, great :) |
| 19:29.05 | rm_you | so it won't work in deps |
| 19:29.22 | rm_you | so essentially, it only helps make manually installing -unlocked slightly easier for noobs |
| 19:29.28 | rm_you | i'm still brainstorming |
| 19:29.51 | rm_you | i think I might be able to do it if i can do the debian deps/replaces/conflicts magic right |
| 19:30.12 | rm_you | AH |
| 19:30.16 | rm_you | MAYBE |
| 19:30.25 | khertan_ | qwerty12_N800: no i ll can do some real debian package fully compliant, and make a new version of pypackager |
| 19:30.41 | khertan_ | s/no/now |
| 19:31.47 | GNUton | jott: Are you working on QGTKStyle or are you waiting a reply from the trolltech guy? |
| 19:32.07 | jott | GNUton: i continue work atm. i did another approach now and it seems fine. |
| 19:32.31 | jott | needs some more proof-reading before going public.. |
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| 19:32.45 | GNUton | jott: ok :) good. |
| 19:33.14 | jott | i guess i'll start commiting the stuff in the qt4-maemo svn for now. |
| 19:33.37 | jott | might still be an option to register a git repo... |
| 19:33.52 | jott | (like repo.or.cz ) |
| 19:34.12 | GNUton | Absolutely perfect! |
| 19:34.43 | X-Fade | jott: Or just git-svn to commit your master branch? |
| 19:35.00 | jott | X-Fade: yeah also an option |
| 19:35.08 | rm_you | i need someone who still is using the locked osso-software-version |
| 19:35.12 | rm_you | anyone? |
| 19:35.17 | X-Fade | jott: There seem to be quite a few people going that route. |
| 19:35.21 | jott | X-Fade: problem is we currently have two branches ;) |
| 19:35.28 | X-Fade | jott: Well, you can do that too.. |
| 19:35.38 | X-Fade | jott: svn has branch support, you know ;) |
| 19:35.42 | jott | i.e. the qt4 svn mixed with qgtkstyle svn |
| 19:35.45 | GNUton | jott: however I think that having the code in garage is the best option. |
| 19:35.49 | *** part/#maemo Maximander (n=dltaylor@69-12-164-139.sfo.archedrock.com) |
| 19:36.18 | jott | GNUton: yes garage is nearest to the community |
| 19:36.19 | GNUton | jott: what do you think about? |
| 19:36.21 | GNUton | jott: ok :) |
| 19:36.51 | jott | but having a public git branch would be nice too, so other people can grab the patches.. |
| 19:37.12 | GNUton | if you are able to setup it, you are welcome! |
| 19:37.39 | jott | i think repo.or.cz supports direct svn import.. not sure about it.. |
| 19:37.48 | jott | but a garage git would be the best :) |
| 19:38.32 | GNUton | :) |
| 19:38.46 | X-Fade | jott: File an enhancement request ;) But don't count on a quick implementation. As it will be quite some work to integrate it. |
| 19:38.46 | *** join/#maemo chelli (n=chelli@p54B87159.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:38.53 | khertan_ | is there a maemo compiled version of svn ? |
| 19:38.53 | jott | GNUton: oh and are you sure it's good to integrate the qgtkstyle directly into qt4? |
| 19:39.01 | khertan_ | to be able to upload from tablet ? |
| 19:39.03 | rm_you | ANYONE still using the locked osso-software-version? |
| 19:39.12 | GNUton | jott: I asked on Qt, and strange but seems that it´s not possible change the beaviour of the QMenu.. mmm |
| 19:39.19 | X-Fade | rm_you: Me ;) |
| 19:39.19 | rm_you | probably if you don't know what osso-software-version-unlocked is... |
| 19:39.28 | rm_you | X-Fade: be my test case :P |
| 19:39.34 | GeneralAntilles | Anybody have a link handy to guided submission form for Bugzilla? |
| 19:39.36 | khertan_ | what is the locked osso-software-version ? (it s probably my case) |
| 19:39.39 | GNUton | jott: of course. Why not? |
| 19:39.50 | rm_you | X-Fade: pretty please :P |
| 19:39.54 | jott | GNUton: it would allow separate release cycles |
| 19:40.16 | GeneralAntilles | khertan_, have you installed the -unlocked version? |
| 19:40.21 | khertan_ | no |
| 19:40.38 | GeneralAntilles | Then you have the locked one. ;) |
| 19:40.44 | GeneralAntilles | It's the default |
| 19:40.51 | GeneralAntilles | Dependencies are == rather than the > |
| 19:40.53 | X-Fade | rm_you: Sure, but not today. 13 hours of maemo today is enough ;) |
| 19:40.54 | GeneralAntilles | = in unlocked |
| 19:40.58 | rm_you | X-Fade: awwwwwwww |
| 19:41.04 | khertan_ | osso-software-version-rx44 est déjà la plus récente version disponible. |
| 19:41.07 | khertan_ | :=) |
| 19:41.07 | rm_you | X-Fade: it'll be for awesome tho, i promise :P |
| 19:41.24 | khertan_ | locked in which way ? |
| 19:41.32 | GNUton | jott: I asked to Trolltech, and probably the QGTKStyle should be merged in Qt in november with Qt 4.5. |
| 19:41.48 | jott | GNUton: hm i see.. |
| 19:42.13 | jott | this would imply that they might not take my patches :/ |
| 19:42.50 | GNUton | jott: don´t worry! |
| 19:43.03 | *** join/#maemo kkrusty (n=cache@5ad4c419.bb.sky.com) |
| 19:43.06 | GNUton | jott: their code is not always bug free! :) |
| 19:43.14 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Can you look at this bugzilla spam? https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=331 |
| 19:43.31 | GNUton | and it´s not always the best.. so you have to trust in yourself! |
| 19:43.32 | GeneralAntilles | Ha, awesome. |
| 19:43.36 | jott | GNUton: it's not about bug-free but about qpl vs gpl ..:/ |
| 19:43.50 | X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: I searched for guide ;) |
| 19:44.22 | GNUton | jott: you can release your conde with the BSD license :P |
| 19:44.42 | jott | GNUton: yeah. i suppose.. |
| 19:44.53 | jott | anyway, i hope i get some response from jens, this will sort out all this things i guess.. |
| 19:45.40 | GNUton | jott: I understand |
| 19:46.19 | rm_you | it might work! |
| 19:46.23 | GNUton | jott: I can pray for you (and for jens) :P |
| 19:46.26 | rm_you | GeneralAntilles: It might work! |
| 19:46.30 | rm_you | qwerty12_N800: it might work! |
| 19:46.31 | rm_you | >_> |
| 19:46.34 | rm_you | can't test tho |
| 19:46.46 | rm_you | as I need to find someone with locked who is willing to test |
| 19:46.48 | jott | heh i could always fork :P |
| 19:46.51 | rm_you | and knows what they're doing |
| 19:46.57 | qwerty12_N800 | crosses me fingers |
| 19:47.09 | GNUton | jott: yeah! :) |
| 19:47.34 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (n=fuchs@f048035048.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:48.23 | rm_you | actually to test REALLY, it needs to be put into a repository |
| 19:48.42 | rm_you | and then need to make a package that a) requires it, and b) replaces something that would make the locked one complain |
| 19:48.53 | rm_you | and try installing that package |
| 19:49.07 | rm_you | so i will need help testing |
| 19:49.31 | rm_you | qwerty12_N800: can you make your xomap package a higher version and Requires: osso-software-version-unlocked ? |
| 19:49.39 | GeneralAntilles | I nominate qwerty12_N800! :P |
| 19:49.54 | *** join/#maemo Italodance (i=Persia@92.61.181.103) |
| 19:50.01 | rm_you | and then i need some random testing repo to shove those two in |
| 19:50.09 | qwerty12_N800 | i could, but not until 7:00AM BST :p |
| 19:50.12 | rm_you | >_> |
| 19:50.14 | rm_you | you gone? |
| 19:50.18 | rm_you | pft |
| 19:50.56 | RST38h | Hey, rm_you, are you there? |
| 19:50.59 | rm_you | yes |
| 19:51.14 | RST38h | rm_you: What do you think of faking an iPhone AppStore? =) |
| 19:51.14 | *** join/#maemo ssvb (n=ssvb___@a88-114-157-47.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:51.19 | rm_you | Rofl? |
| 19:51.26 | rm_you | like, writing up a clone? |
| 19:51.28 | RST38h | rm_you: No, seriously =) |
| 19:51.42 | rm_you | or, making something that fakes one and takes people' |
| 19:51.46 | rm_you | people's money? :P |
| 19:51.46 | RST38h | rm_you: Well, like most Apple products appstore is basically all UI |
| 19:52.06 | RST38h | rm_you: We can put together a similar UI and place it on top of PackRat |
| 19:52.21 | rm_you | heh |
| 19:52.30 | rm_you | so basically... a new application-manager? |
| 19:52.39 | rm_you | with a better UI |
| 19:52.42 | RST38h | rm_you: Prolly not very useful but will produce decent wow-factor |
| 19:52.43 | *** join/#maemo hellwolf (n=hellwolf@a83-132-29-118.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 19:52.44 | rm_you | that looks like iPhone |
| 19:52.51 | rm_you | ? |
| 19:52.56 | RST38h | rm_you: Well, we can't do full app-manager on the web |
| 19:53.00 | rm_you | oh |
| 19:53.03 | rm_you | you mean web |
| 19:53.07 | rm_you | with just .install? |
| 19:53.14 | RST38h | rm_you: But yes, we can make a set of web pages that let people install apps and LOOK like iPhone |
| 19:53.18 | rm_you | I was thinking the iPhone iStore on-device |
| 19:53.36 | *** join/#maemo andre____ (n=andre@g224236241.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:53.37 | rm_you | it is an app on the iPhone isnt it? |
| 19:53.38 | RST38h | rm_you: That would be nice but it is too involved and I don't think there will be any users |
| 19:53.39 | qwerty12_N800 | rm_you, if you can put osso-software-version-unlocked in diablo extras-devel, i'll upload an rotation xserver-xomap tomorrow to -devel. |
| 19:53.41 | RST38h | it is |
| 19:53.59 | rm_you | qwerty12_N800: if i am wrong, this has the potential to be very bad |
| 19:54.09 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, rm_you, push the Application manager community-branch instead. :P |
| 19:54.10 | rm_you | qwerty12_N800: would rather do it somewhere in a repo only i can access :P |
| 19:54.10 | *** join/#maemo dougt (n=dougt@c-67-180-89-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:54.21 | rm_you | GeneralAntilles: yeah, that was what i was just gonna say |
| 19:54.29 | RST38h | GA: Don't want to touch it. It is a Nokia application. Nokia does what it wants with it |
| 19:54.39 | rm_you | not the community branch |
| 19:54.45 | rm_you | that's why it's... a community branch |
| 19:54.46 | GeneralAntilles | Uh, RST38h, you do realize they WANT a community branch, right? |
| 19:54.57 | *** join/#maemo mardi__ (n=mardi_@host81-146-44-69.btremoteinternet-dsl.bt.net) |
| 19:55.03 | RST38h | GA: Yes, some people in Nokia want a community branch |
| 19:55.03 | GeneralAntilles | Get with Marius, figure out a proposal and go, go, go! |
| 19:55.11 | qwerty12_N800 | rm_you, i'll create an source package, upload to your own repo and test away :p |
| 19:55.14 | RST38h | GA: But look at it this way: |
| 19:55.41 | RST38h | GA: On one hand, implementing a good app manager requires A LOT of time and it is not only the apple-like UI |
| 19:55.49 | rm_you | qwerty12_N800: ok.... any chances i can get the source NOW so i can test? :P |
| 19:55.57 | rm_you | how long till you will be able to help? |
| 19:56.05 | rm_you | i'm not a patient person :P |
| 19:56.11 | RST38h | GA: On the other hand, probability of people actually using this stuff, especially to release commercial apps through it is NIL |
| 19:56.26 | qwerty12_N800 | rm_you, haha, wait a min |
| 19:56.27 | rm_you | i want to get this done while i am focused... if i lose focus, i may not start working on it again :P |
| 19:56.34 | RST38h | GA: And, finally, I have got a job and many other projects |
| 19:56.34 | qwerty12_N800 | sorry, 5 mins :p |
| 19:56.44 | RST38h | (like VGB I spend several hours on today) |
| 19:56.53 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, why would they have to specifically cater to the community branch? |
| 19:57.04 | GeneralAntilles | The idea is to have a different front-end on the same backend. |
| 19:57.15 | GeneralAntilles | So it'd be completely transparent to the user and packagers. |
| 19:57.22 | GeneralAntilles | Anyway, whatever. |
| 19:57.35 | RST38h | GA: Yes, but weight all the above factors |
| 19:57.43 | RST38h | And you will see what I mean |
| 19:58.24 | RST38h | Now, putting an iPhone-like UI on top of PackRat will take much less time, will not require to wrestle backend details from Nokia, and will produce immediate wow effect |
| 19:58.40 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, what details? It's APT and open source. |
| 19:59.01 | RST38h | + there is an added benefit of [maybe] creating a light javascript library for MicroB |
| 19:59.29 | qwerty12_N800 | rm_you, apply http://labs.vivi.eng.br/blog/rotation-patches/adding-support-to-xrandr-on-xomap.patch on http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/x/xorg-server/ and ensure you use xrandr from here to compile in diablo_sdk: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/libx/libxrandr/ |
| 19:59.37 | RST38h | GA: So, basicall, you are proposing to create one more apt-get wrapper with Apple like UI? |
| 20:00.02 | fnordianslip | i need to debug my dodgy kernel which adds AX.25 support. the tablet keels over after about 30 secs on the home screen. i can use the stock kernel for post-mortems. i guess there's a sysklogd package for diablo or something. is that the best bet for figuring out what's up? |
| 20:00.05 | RST38h | Well, personally, I am ok with the current app manager |
| 20:00.06 | GeneralAntilles | Whatever, I don't really care at the moment. |
| 20:00.09 | GeneralAntilles | I need to get on the road. |
| 20:00.11 | GeneralAntilles | Later. |
| 20:00.16 | RST38h | good luck |
| 20:01.23 | johnx | wonders if there is value in a quick gdebi compile |
| 20:01.49 | johnx | it takes a .deb and tracks down the deps with apt while displaying a nice simple UI |
| 20:02.02 | qwerty12_N800 | already tried. but i cannot deny i tried really hard |
| 20:02.18 | qwerty12_N800 | *i didnt try |
| 20:02.37 | johnx | "I can neither confirm nor deny that statement." |
| 20:03.00 | qwerty12_N800 | hehe |
| 20:03.13 | rm_you | qwerty12_N800: what do you mean, make sure to use this xrandr? |
| 20:03.24 | rm_you | can i just have it installed via apt-get in scratchbox? |
| 20:03.36 | qwerty12_N800 | should work. |
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| 20:08.32 | zap | RST38h: are you going to push fmsx into maemo-extras? |
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| 20:10.18 | Maximander | does anyone know about "EAC mode: play disabled, rec disabled" messages in dmsg? |
| 20:11.00 | Maximander | I'm having some problems with a usb device, and i'm trying to figure out if it's hardware or software, but that's all that's in dmesg |
| 20:11.25 | johnx | Maximander, those messages are normal. what's the problem? |
| 20:12.02 | Maximander | eh, I'm talking to a serial device and i keep timing out |
| 20:12.09 | Maximander | not sure where the problem is yet |
| 20:12.37 | johnx | that's interesting. do you think it might be power related? |
| 20:13.08 | Maximander | no, don't think so |
| 20:13.14 | Maximander | unfortunately, gdb on maemo doesn't appear to be too good with threads |
| 20:13.27 | Maximander | i'm suspicious of the threading library |
| 20:13.46 | Maximander | pthread condition wait to be specific |
| 20:15.12 | johnx | sorry, that's beyond me. anyways, I need to get some sleep before the sun comes up. :) 'night all |
| 20:15.28 | qwerty12_N800 | 'night johnx |
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| 20:23.31 | rm_you | qwerty12_N800: ok |
| 20:23.40 | rm_you | qwerty12_N800: seems like it might work |
| 20:24.17 | rm_you | but need to test with a tablet without either the -unlocked software-version or the xserver-xomap with rotation |
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| 20:30.44 | rm_you | X-Fade: eh? eh? :P |
| 20:30.56 | rm_you | you get rotation support in the deal :P |
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| 20:37.42 | rm_you | wtf? |
| 20:38.26 | pupnik | haahahaha http://xkcd.com/443/ |
| 20:39.51 | rm_you | deb http://repository.maemo.org/ diablo free non-free |
| 20:39.51 | rm_you | doesnt exist |
| 20:39.52 | rm_you | but |
| 20:39.56 | rm_you | deb http://repository.maemo.org/ chinook free non-free |
| 20:39.57 | rm_you | dows? |
| 20:39.59 | rm_you | *does? |
| 20:41.38 | crashanddie | dows ? :D |
| 20:44.09 | fnordianslip | can i mount my internal flash when booted from the SD card? i've left a log file on it. |
| 20:44.23 | fnordianslip | on n800 diablo |
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| 20:49.46 | rm_you | IT WORKS! |
| 20:50.00 | *** join/#maemo rev` (n=rev|x@75-163-30-85.dlth.qwest.net) |
| 20:50.03 | rm_you | IT WORKS |
| 20:50.09 | rm_you | jott: IT WORKS |
| 20:50.11 | rm_you | :P |
| 20:50.33 | rm_you | you can now make packages that will break the locked osso-software-version install perfectly |
| 20:50.44 | rm_you | just make them depend on "osso-software-version-unlocked" |
| 20:51.01 | rm_you | I will put it it in extras-devel |
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| 20:51.56 | RST38bis | moo, all |
| 20:52.02 | rm_you | sup |
| 20:53.23 | rm_you | the only problem still left is that it... well... going back is not really possible |
| 20:53.28 | rm_you | at least automatically |
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| 20:54.00 | rm_you | but that is a problem with the way the locked/unlocked thing works, not really my package |
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| 21:00.10 | zap | rm_you: but it's really called osso-software-version-unlocked-rx34|rx44 ? |
| 21:00.31 | rm_you | no |
| 21:00.36 | rm_you | it is generic |
| 21:00.48 | rm_you | you can not worry at all about the hardware version, the package deals with it |
| 21:01.46 | rm_you | just installing "osso-software-version-unlocked" provides the correct unlocked package |
| 21:01.55 | zap | hmm, cool |
| 21:01.58 | rm_you | and automatically removes the locked version |
| 21:02.01 | zap | osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked |
| 21:02.09 | zap | that's how its called on my n810 |
| 21:02.12 | rm_you | right |
| 21:02.24 | rm_you | and osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked on n800 |
| 21:02.26 | zap | Provides: osso-software-version-variant |
| 21:02.29 | rm_you | right |
| 21:02.42 | zap | maybe it should depend on osso-software-version-variant ? |
| 21:02.46 | rm_you | no |
| 21:02.51 | zap | I can't get it how it works |
| 21:02.56 | rm_you | it's complicated |
| 21:03.04 | zap | it shouldn't be |
| 21:03.08 | rm_you | right but it ia |
| 21:03.09 | rm_you | *is |
| 21:03.15 | rm_you | and theres nothing we can do about it |
| 21:03.25 | zap | well I just want to understand :) |
| 21:03.37 | rm_you | right so I'll try to explain how my package works |
| 21:03.52 | zap | Provides: osso-software-version-variant | Conflicts: osso-software-version-variant |
| 21:03.54 | zap | how cool |
| 21:03.59 | rm_you | yeah it is dumb |
| 21:04.37 | rm_you | I think I will add it to -devel and post on ITT about it |
| 21:07.00 | zap | so if a package depends on osso-software-version-unlocked, it automatically installs osso-software-version-rx??-unlocked? |
| 21:07.14 | zap | can you try apt-get -f install after that? |
| 21:08.30 | rm_you | yes and it is perfectly finr |
| 21:08.32 | rm_you | *fine |
| 21:08.40 | rm_you | what it actually does |
| 21:08.47 | rm_you | and this is sort of a hack, but works excellently... |
| 21:09.06 | zap | I don't understand how it works, and this makes me worry |
| 21:09.12 | rm_you | it installs my package, osso-software-version-unlocked, which then looks at your system and decides which REAL package to install |
| 21:09.22 | zap | ah |
| 21:09.26 | zap | *your* package |
| 21:09.38 | rm_you | and the debs for both ship with my package |
| 21:09.42 | rm_you | right |
| 21:09.48 | zap | now I got it |
| 21:10.24 | rm_you | so you install osso-software-version-unlocked, it puts osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked_4.2008.23-14_all.deb and osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked_4.2008.23-14_all.deb in /usr/share/osso-software-version-unlocked/ |
| 21:10.41 | rm_you | and then in the postinst, it looks and sees which one you need, and dpkg installs it |
| 21:11.28 | zap | clever |
| 21:11.37 | rm_you | yeah |
| 21:12.17 | zap | ok wish you luck and g'night :) |
| 21:12.33 | rm_you | and since REALLY the only thing that block the installation of newer system packages is osso-software-version-rx#4 (the locked thing), since my package REPLACES that, it is forced to be uninstalled, and the -locked package isnt actually required at that stage of install |
| 21:12.38 | rm_you | and can be put back in place later :P |
| 21:12.55 | rm_you | :) |
| 21:12.58 | rm_you | night |
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| 21:23.40 | rm_you | lardman|gone: yo? |
| 21:34.29 | jott | rm_you: what's the problem with installing a specific -unlock package? i think it's not a good manner to install packages with dpkg in the maintainer scripts... |
| 21:34.42 | rm_you | yes it is horrible BUT |
| 21:34.47 | rm_you | this allows it to be automated |
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| 21:35.21 | rm_you | for instance, i recompiled xserver-xomap with a higher version string |
| 21:35.29 | rm_you | and with Requires: osso-software-unlocked |
| 21:35.41 | rm_you | and then i just did "apt-get install xserver-xomap" |
| 21:35.51 | jott | i think it's not that bad to force users installing the unlock package to make them aware what is going on.. |
| 21:35.52 | rm_you | and it automatically removes the locked one and installs the correct unlocked one |
| 21:36.09 | jott | i would hate when this happens.. |
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| 21:36.33 | jott | when apt-get does something unpredictable |
| 21:36.56 | rm_you | I just know how many people have been complaining about not being able to automatically select the unlocked package for installation |
| 21:37.04 | rm_you | how is it unpredictable? |
| 21:37.23 | jott | normally apt-get shows me what it does beforehand (which packages it will install and remove) |
| 21:37.35 | rm_you | it says: "installing extra packages: osso-software-version-unlocked" |
| 21:37.53 | rm_you | and also "removing packages: osso-software-version-rx#4" (locked) |
| 21:37.54 | jott | yeah but it does not do that.. |
| 21:37.58 | rm_you | no, it does |
| 21:38.05 | jott | it also install other packages |
| 21:38.09 | rm_you | one |
| 21:38.15 | jott | yes |
| 21:38.23 | jott | no matter if one or 1000 |
| 21:38.25 | rm_you | but it is just the non-generic version of the package you DID tell it to install |
| 21:38.41 | jott | that's why i want apt-get to tell me the truth |
| 21:38.52 | rm_you | it is not possible to do that :( |
| 21:39.33 | jott | i can't see what's hard about installing the -unlocked package if you want an unlocked device.. |
| 21:40.08 | rm_you | well for instance i am making a package called "rotation-support" |
| 21:40.28 | rm_you | i want it to automatically switch to unlocked when they install that |
| 21:40.50 | Veggen | evening. |
| 21:40.57 | rm_you | because there is no way for me to make apt explain how to fix the problem if they try to install it and it says can't install" because of deps |
| 21:41.01 | rm_you | normal users will be clueless |
| 21:41.13 | rm_you | it needs to smoothly switch over to unlocked |
| 21:42.42 | jott | it should say "need either osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked or osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked" |
| 21:42.51 | rm_you | it doesn't |
| 21:43.24 | rm_you | instead it just says random stuff about depends and how it cant install |
| 21:43.33 | jott | hm? why not? thos should be in Required for every package breaking osso-software-version-rxXX |
| 21:43.41 | rm_you | but you can't do that |
| 21:43.48 | rm_you | or can you? |
| 21:43.56 | jott | mh? Require: osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked | osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked |
| 21:43.57 | rm_you | dont think you can require "X or Y" |
| 21:44.01 | rm_you | err |
| 21:44.03 | jott | sure |
| 21:44.10 | rm_you | but how does the device know which to install? |
| 21:44.23 | jott | it will cry :P |
| 21:44.33 | jott | but should state what options there are |
| 21:44.46 | jott | that is "unlock your device if you want to mess with it" |
| 21:45.44 | jott | maybe some wrapper package could be made..aka "unlock-n800" which just requires osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked |
| 21:45.47 | jott | to make it transparent |
| 21:46.00 | jott | or atleast more transparent |
| 21:46.16 | rm_you | i suppose you could do it that way <_< |
| 21:46.44 | rm_you | personally I appreciate the automation, and yes it is a hack, but not a horrible one, as it does exactly what you want |
| 21:46.48 | jott | i admit the "osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked" package name is rather confusing for a normal user ;) |
| 21:46.57 | jott | i think it's horrible |
| 21:47.10 | jott | because it's not how a deb should work |
| 21:47.26 | rm_you | well, this is not how the entire dependency system should work |
| 21:47.28 | rm_you | but that's how it does |
| 21:47.39 | rm_you | sooo.... |
| 21:48.00 | rm_you | are there even any differences between rx34 and rx44 unlocked? >_< |
| 21:48.33 | jott | mh ;) |
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| 21:49.55 | jott | oh and it might be good to actually use an extra package for the rotation xserver that Provides the normal xserver |
| 21:50.04 | jott | this way it's easier to uninstall |
| 21:50.23 | rm_you | err |
| 21:50.36 | rm_you | ah |
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| 21:50.52 | rm_you | so that to uninstall, you just reinstall "xserver-xomap"? |
| 21:50.57 | jott | yes |
| 21:51.03 | rm_you | sec i will do that right now |
| 21:51.33 | jott | i think you also have to "Replace" it.. |
| 21:51.41 | jott | well needs obviously some testing ;) |
| 21:51.47 | rm_you | yes |
| 21:52.17 | rm_you | Replaces: xserver-xomap; Provides: xserver, xserver-xomap |
| 21:52.20 | rm_you | i believe |
| 21:52.24 | rm_you | or maybe just |
| 21:52.27 | rm_you | Replaces: xserver-xomap; Provides: xserver |
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| 21:52.46 | rm_you | I think replaces is fine, things that depend on xserver-xomap should see that and be ok |
| 21:52.49 | jott | i think both..?! |
| 21:56.03 | Veggen | hhmm. |
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| 21:56.52 | Veggen | sip over openvpn was a *little* chatty for gprs from a small village in alps. |
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| 21:57.54 | Talus46_n810 | greetings |
| 21:58.51 | Talus46_n810 | how can i enable execution of a.out files in the n810? |
| 22:01.22 | jott | Veggen: hah just a "little"? ;) |
| 22:02.15 | Veggen | jott: no - it was seriously affecting everything else .) |
| 22:02.33 | solmumaha | Talus46_n810: ./a.out in xterm |
| 22:02.49 | wnd | Talus46_n810, are you really talking about a.out executables and not just executables in general, or elf-executables named a.out? |
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| 22:12.05 | fnordianslip | hmm. i'm looking through the syslogs from my attempts to boot with my custom kernel and I'm wondering if the following is the reason for the reboot ... |
| 22:12.08 | fnordianslip | Jul 15 21:05:36 Nokia-N800-23-14 DSME: '/usr/sbin/wlancond' spawning too fast -> reset |
| 22:12.08 | fnordianslip | Jul 15 21:05:36 Nokia-N800-23-14 DSME: Here we will request for sw reset |
| 22:13.00 | lbt | anyone know about xgettext? |
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| 22:20.40 | fnordianslip | any ideas on my reboot issue ^^^ |
| 22:26.22 | fnordianslip | ah, itT search shows that is indeed the cause of the reboot. now to figure out what's going on with wlancond I guess. |
| 22:26.23 | crashanddie | GAN800, n810 been running for 6hours 20 minutes, and battery manager still displays 3hours of uptime left |
| 22:28.13 | rm_you | with gpsd? |
| 22:32.32 | ShadowJK | does gpsd access the gps even if no applications want a gps fix? |
| 22:36.30 | rm_you | hrm i believe so? |
| 22:36.39 | rm_you | it would need to be able to respond instantly to a request |
| 22:37.02 | rm_you | not have to ON REQUEST take a while to initiate connection, and do a cold-start >_> |
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| 22:38.54 | crashanddie | rm_you, yeah |
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| 22:40.26 | ShadowJK | hm |
| 22:40.44 | ShadowJK | gpsd is running when you've got "enable gps" ticked in control panel? |
| 22:40.58 | crashanddie | no, don't think so |
| 22:41.04 | ShadowJK | hm |
| 22:42.06 | crashanddie | from what I gather, "enable gps" is only to activate the link to the gps device, but it's "on" |
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| 23:24.43 | lcuk3 | gets frustrated |
| 23:25.01 | summatusmentis | frustrated? |
| 23:25.29 | lcuk | yes, im calling a line of code which is locking up my nit so hard ive gotta pop the battery |
| 23:25.56 | lcuk | it started last night but ive not had a chance to debug it till now |
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| 23:26.21 | rm_you | lcuk |
| 23:26.26 | lcuk | yer |
| 23:26.29 | summatusmentis | ouch |
| 23:26.42 | jott | lcuk: you could renice the process while debugging so it will be a more multi-task friendly.. |
| 23:27.01 | *** part/#maemo Raffaello (n=raffaell@unaffiliated/aras) |
| 23:27.10 | lcuk | its the first time this has ever been a problem |
| 23:27.57 | jott | i was only hit by oom problems ... |
| 23:27.58 | lcuk | its seriously locking the machine - im pretty sure it will be cured in a few minutes (ive got it down to a single call :)) |
| 23:28.12 | lcuk | i'd rather not mess with nicing |
| 23:28.39 | lcuk | theres not been a need till now, i tihnk im sending an invalid pointer and the function is writing all over the wrong memory |
| 23:29.43 | lcuk | :D heh, yer thats what it was |
| 23:30.20 | lcuk | .... , (JSAMPARRAY) buffer , .... instead of .... , (JSAMPARRAY) &buffer , .... |
| 23:30.30 | jott | yieks :) |
| 23:30.36 | jott | glad you found it |
| 23:31.33 | lcuk | i would never let anything like that out without testing. i try to test everything and dont do much until code is stable :) |
| 23:32.07 | lcuk | infact - this is the first time ive gone to sleep with a broken function |
| 23:32.21 | lcuk | as in known bad BOOOOOM broken, not just doesnt do what i want |
| 23:34.01 | lcuk | OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG |
| 23:34.03 | lcuk | it works ;) |
| 23:34.33 | lcuk | liqbase can now load (greyscale) jpegs :D |
| 23:35.15 | *** join/#maemo __t (n=t@port-92-195-101-65.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 23:36.08 | jott | nice ;) |
| 23:36.36 | jott | with your own jpeg decoder? ;) |
| 23:37.31 | lcuk | nahhh, using jpeglib, a few weeks ago i made the colorblit and allowed blitting of arbitary in memory bitmaps, i just needed a way to load and save them |
| 23:37.46 | lcuk | it shouldv been in last night nice and quickly, but for that damned & |
| 23:38.05 | lcuk | its bugged me all day wondering why it was such a heavy crash |
| 23:44.02 | *** join/#maemo sin18 (n=sin18@pool-71-180-31-100.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:47.02 | jott | bleh and i was just hit by non-unique keys in a pixmap cache .. another 20 minutes lost :P |
| 23:48.20 | lcuk | these things pop up at the worst times |
| 23:50.27 | *** join/#maemo Grackle_ (n=alex@164-207.suscom-maine.net) |
| 23:57.07 | crashanddie | update: n810 been running for 9 hours with the gps enabled and tracking, and still reports 1 hour of battery life |
| 23:57.14 | *** join/#maemo t_s_o (n=tso@211.84-49-138.nextgentel.com) |
